# EDL watch



## Das Uberdog (Oct 31, 2010)

Thought I'd just start a thread to compile all my posts about the EDL, seeing as almost all my recent threads have been related to them. Who knows; if it takes off, it might become a sticky?

I've just heard that the EDL have up-turned a UAF stall in Oldham. No report I've found from UAF yet, but I imagine there'll be some 'Oldham UAF activists saw off the EDL on Sunday' headling coming soon. Anyone heard anything?


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## Citizen66 (Oct 31, 2010)

Can we redo that argument again for the benefit of a new audience?


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## Das Uberdog (Oct 31, 2010)

are you talking about the one where you fail to understand why supporting EDL demonstrations is idiotic? if so, i'd rather you keep that to PMs unless it specifically comes up. ta.


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## Citizen66 (Oct 31, 2010)

I don't remember it playing out like that at all.

How I recall it, it was about supporting the Muslim community in opposing both English AND Islamist fascists from a w/c perspective that you couldn't get your head round. Oh well.


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## fiannanahalba (Oct 31, 2010)

No way did the EDL turn over a UAF stall, what happened was the UAF were campaigning in Oldham and got a fantastic response from locals who queued up ten deep to sign a petition, resulting in the sheer weight of the petitions collapsing the stall.


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## Casually Red (Oct 31, 2010)

those fucks need sorting out


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## Jeff Robinson (Oct 31, 2010)

hahahaha

http://www.holymoly.com/celebrity-n...-they-then-claim-shes-joined-their-party49689


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2010)

Casually Red said:


> those fucks need sorting out


 
this


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2010)

Go on then.


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## Proper Tidy (Oct 31, 2010)

Jeff Robinson said:


> hahahaha
> 
> http://www.holymoly.com/celebrity-n...-they-then-claim-shes-joined-their-party49689


 
Fuck me that's sad.


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## Fingers (Nov 1, 2010)

The EDL's weekend jo9lly nto amsterdam didn't quite go to plan, here it is summed up by indymedia, backed up by the whining on the EDL forums



> EDL’s Dutch Courage Runs Out!
> Well, what a wash out. After months of trumpeting and blether the English Defence League’s band of hooligans and ‘chav scrotes’ were humiliated in Amsterdam yesterday, attacked by antifascists and Ajax fans and harried by the cops. At least they didn’t have time to fight amongst themselves as they usually do. There is some interesting YouTube footage, involving some shaky camera work, of them running around cluelessly, pursued by Dutch Antifa and plod. At one point there seemed to be more photographers than EDL all believing the hype that this was going to be another Bradford ‘little big one.’ In the end it was ‘the little little one.’ The images show a faintly confused bunch of fat blokes in hoodies wandering about. One of the EDL vans was trashed and there were 34 arrests. They had a little stage and Tommy Robinson AKA Steven Yaxley-Lennon, ex-BNP and jailed for assaulting a copper, gave a ‘rousing speech’ to his mates and then they went home. No surrender? They did. Completely.
> 
> According to Hope Not Hate about 60 turned up to ‘support’ Geert Wilders, the anti-Islamic Dutch MP who has publicly distanced himself from the lager swilling, loud mouthed hooligans for obvious reasons. So if that is the case, why did the EDL bother? So they can get their necessary media injection and show their mates in the pub how famous they are. This kind of behaviour shows the EDL as a vanity operation, boosting the egos a of a few nobodies with criminal records.
> ...



http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/10/467167.html


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## Deareg (Nov 1, 2010)

there are bits about oldham and amsterdam on here

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000949714422


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## Proper Tidy (Nov 1, 2010)

Fingers said:


> The EDL's weekend jo9lly nto amsterdam didn't quite go to plan, here it is summed up by indymedia, backed up by the whining on the EDL forums
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/10/467167.html


 
Bit of a knob, whoever wrote that. Chav scrotes? DSS? Sneering prick.


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## OneStrike (Nov 1, 2010)

Was that the Ajax hooligan firm taking it to the invading foreign firm victory?


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## The39thStep (Nov 1, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> Bit of a knob, whoever wrote that. Chav scrotes? DSS? Sneering prick.


 
Malatesta is a general without an army


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## audiotech (Nov 1, 2010)

Someone has pointed out in the comments section that the phrase "Chav Scrotes" was used by the EDL leadership to describe those who gave the EDL a bad name.


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## Citizen66 (Nov 1, 2010)

And it's placed in inverted commas indicating it was used elsewhere.


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## Proper Tidy (Nov 1, 2010)

What about the DSS bit?


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## Jeff Robinson (Nov 1, 2010)

Tommy Robinson is the least scary looking far right leader I've ever seen - looks like some sort of junior estate agent cunt. No wonder he used to wear the balaclava. Even then, any pretense of toughness was done away whenever he opened his mouth and sounded like Kathy Burke playing a teenage boy.


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## audiotech (Nov 1, 2010)

"Soap dodgers", "scroungers", "DSS", "chav scrotes". All pretty pathetic really.


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## Casually Red (Nov 1, 2010)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Kathy Burke playing a teenage boy.


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## The39thStep (Nov 1, 2010)

audiotech said:


> "Soap dodgers", "scroungers", "DSS", "chav scrotes". All pretty pathetic really.



ah hem



audiotech said:


> From the video feed it looked like trade unionists and students against, mainly self-employed male lard arses, with their younger male followers with acne. I saw very few women amongst the EDL supporters and no one who wasn't pasty faced.


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## Citizen66 (Nov 1, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> What about the DSS bit?


 
You have a problem with him suggesting that the DSS doesn't pay enough for people to go abroad? Or that he assumes EDL members that didn't go are on the DSS? Or just the DSS in general being used as a term of abuse?

I'm not sure that it's the latter. Although if it's some uppity middle class guy sneering at the wwc I can see why it's raised your hackles.


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## Proper Tidy (Nov 1, 2010)

Citizen66 said:


> You have a problem with him suggesting that the DSS doesn't pay enough for people to go abroad? Or that he assumes EDL members that didn't go are on the DSS? Or just the DSS in general being used as a term of abuse?
> 
> I'm not sure that it's the latter. Although if it's some uppity middle class guy sneering at the wwc I can see why it's raised your hackles.


 
It sounds like sneering to me, and it's all too common amongst some 'anti-fascists'.


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## treelover (Nov 1, 2010)

Comrade 'Maletasa' clearly hasn't signed on for for quite a while or at all, DSS has long been abandoned by the Dept, its now DWP....


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## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2010)

treelover said:


> Comrade 'Maletasa' clearly hasn't signed on for for quite a while or at all, DSS has long been abandoned by the Dept, its now DWP....


 
has been for years.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> It sounds like sneering to me, and it's all too common amongst some 'anti-fascists'.


 
yeh: mainly imo among the posturing keyboard warriors who'd run a mile if confronted with a couple of edl.


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## frogwoman (Nov 1, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> It sounds like sneering to me, and it's all too common amongst some 'anti-fascists'.


 
not all of whom are even "anti" at all, especially in the USA (not accusing this guy btw)


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## Proper Tidy (Nov 1, 2010)

Usually the same people who say 'oh, immigrants only take the jobs the council estate scum are too lazy to do' etc.


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## audiotech (Nov 1, 2010)

The39thStep said:


> ah hem


 
I never mentioned the DSS?

Now being a recipient of £65 quid a week, I can attest that most on benefit, as I also found in the 80's, are above reproach.

Of course, there's alway's the twat in the block, who is rumoured to be a crack addict and tried to scam me for a couple of quid the other day, pretending he was collecting for a cancer charity - fucking scumbag.

Not saying you do, but I don't live in some leafy, middle-class dream world.


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## Captain Hurrah (Nov 1, 2010)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Tommy Robinson is the least scary looking far right leader I've ever seen - looks like some sort of junior estate agent cunt. No wonder he used to wear the balaclava. Even then, any pretense of toughness was done away whenever he opened his mouth and sounded like Kathy Burke playing a teenage boy.


 
lol.


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## frogwoman (Nov 1, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> Usually the same people who say 'oh, immigrants only take the jobs the council estate scum are too lazy to do' etc.


 
Yep, and supporting Israel (in the US, anyway, seems to be a thing with a few of the "anti-fascist" people i met when i was helping with an anti-racist website for some people largely based in the US)  in the UK perhaps not like that though, and perhaps even going on about how all Israelis are savages , like some guy i met at a demo a while back


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## cantsin (Nov 1, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> Yep, and supporting Israel (in the US, anyway, in the UK perhaps going on about how all Israelis are savages , like some guy i met a while back)


 
huh ?


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## frogwoman (Nov 2, 2010)

sorry, what a shit post, i have edited to make it a bit clearer, sorry


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## DrRingDing (Nov 2, 2010)

Well there's some in Cambridge that have been very silly and taking liberties.

Silly boys.


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## Casually Red (Nov 2, 2010)

Given this guy robinsons obvious lack of leadership ability , charisma ,inspirational quality ,  political thought or planning capability the manner in which hes managed to attract followers to an outfit heavily hyped by the British media from the outset means its a given the thing is state sponsored from the outset . 
So any thoughts as regards the overall game plan behind these cretins ?


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## Das Uberdog (Nov 2, 2010)

i don't think it's state sponsored, but it's undeniably sponsored by some wealthy individuals. recent links made with the Tea Party have no doubt aided them with more financial and legal resources. i think it's important not to underestimate the basic underlying business nouse of the EDL's leadership, who've been marketing EDL branded clothing and 'accessories' since the group began. the EDL business model looks extremely similar to that of a footie fan-club to me, and that's not really surprising given their leadership's background.

as a long-term strategy, i don't think there is one, other than for continued incremental enlargement and encroachment on the rest of the left (beginning with the SWP and UAF). though, these things may well be more of an organic development in the regions than a conscious plan directed from the centre.

whatever happens, i think the EDL are now a permanent feature on the British political scene, for the forseeable future. something we'll have to adapt our strategy around.


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## Casually Red (Nov 2, 2010)

Im still quite suspicious of the way the British media overnight hyped this outfit out of all proportion , before any activity even began they were on the front pages of a number of tabloids . We saw precisely that type of thing  before with combat 18 . Run by no marks and clowns who were more interested in getting their hands on the lucrative Blood and Honour marketting brand than anything . Hyped by the media out of all proportion to what threat they posed .  And a state run operation from start to inglorious finish .

Theres a lot of parallels here as far as i can see .


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## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2010)

Casually Red said:


> Im still quite suspicious of the way the British media overnight hyped this outfit out of all proportion , before any activity even began they were on the front pages of a number of tabloids . We saw precisely that type of thing  before with combat 18 . Run by no marks and clowns who were more interested in getting their hands on the lucrative Blood and Honour marketting brand than anything . Hyped by the media out of all proportion to what threat they posed .  And a state run operation from start to inglorious finish .
> 
> Theres a lot of parallels here as far as i can see .


except that the edl aren't as far as i can see trying to muscle in on music interests.


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## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2010)

They were around under other guises long before that luton thing though.

I think they're over now.


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## Casually Red (Nov 2, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> except that the edl aren't as far as i can see trying to muscle in on music interests.


 
but they are interested in making a lot of dosh through a marketed right wing brand name , which is all B&H were in a financial sense . And just like C18 theres a rivalry there with the BNP too .


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## frogwoman (Nov 2, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> They were around under other guises long before that luton thing though.
> 
> I think they're over now.


 
what makes you say that butchers?


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## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2010)

They haven't had the numbers for a good few months now. There's been an internal polarisation leaving those who were hiding in there unable to do so anymore - their true colours have to appear if they want to stay involved, they never managed to set up anything sustainable politically anywhere, no proper local involvement in anything, and the pool they _thought_ they were swimming ion has other issues on its mind right now - issues which the edl can't even begin to deal with.


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## frogwoman (Nov 2, 2010)

that's a good point, especially the last bit of the sentence. 

where do you think the far right in general are headed tho? is this something we're gonna have to watch out for at all?


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## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2010)

I think the BNP are trying to keep a lid on stuff until march/april time 2011. That's pretty much all they _can_ do for the minute.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2010)

Casually Red said:


> but they are interested in making a lot of dosh through a marketed right wing brand name , which is all B&H were in a financial sense . And just like C18 theres a rivalry there with the BNP too .


 
i don't think they'll make *that* much money through branded merchandise you can't wear in a significant number of social settings without a fight / getting stopped and searched / looking like a wanker


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## frogwoman (Nov 2, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I think the BNP are trying to keep a lid on stuff until march/april time 2011. That's pretty much all they _can_ do for the minute.


 
fair dos, do you think they have a chance of electoral / whatever success at all? they don't seem to have any kind of response about the cuts etc, although i dont generally tend to go looking around on the bnp website. maybe im wrong tho?


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## Casually Red (Nov 2, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think they'll make *that* much money through branded merchandise you can't wear in a significant number of social settings *without a fight / getting stopped and searched / looking like a wanker*



the point of being in the EDL surely ?


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## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2010)

frogwoman said:


> fair dos, do you think they have a chance of electoral / whatever success at all? they don't seem to have any kind of response about the cuts etc, although i dont generally tend to go looking around on the bnp website. maybe im wrong tho?


 
They've failed miserably to get their narrative of economic nationalism across over the last 12 months. There have been local groups concentrating on things like social housing but there's no national focus. Be able to tell closer to next may.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2010)

Casually Red said:


> the point of being in the EDL surely ?


 


yes - but my point was the only outings most of these hoodies can have is at the edl demos, rather than in general everyday wear.


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## audiotech (Nov 2, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> They haven't had the numbers for a good few months now. There's been an internal polarisation leaving those who were hiding in there unable to do so anymore - their true colours have to appear if they want to stay involved, they never managed to set up anything sustainable politically anywhere, no proper local involvement in anything, and the pool they _thought_ they were swimming ion has other issues on its mind right now - issues which the edl can't even begin to deal with.


 
Also, the leadership that has stepped forward appear to be not that organised. Amsterdam is a disaster for them.


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## BlackArab (Nov 3, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> yes - but my point was the only outings most of these hoodies can have is at the edl demos, rather than in general everyday wear.



I've seen them worn at football matches too.


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## revlon (Nov 3, 2010)

anybody got any info on these fellas?
http://nice onesuk.co.uk/index.php



> NiceOnesUK is a new patriotic group formed by people from various backgrounds disillusioned with the lack of opposition to the extreme right ideology - Islamism, and the Government's history of helping to fund and enter into dialogue with Islamist influenced groups.
> 
> It should be made absolutely clear that we oppose ALL fascism and racism, whether it comes from white, brown or beige groups.
> 
> ...


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## butchersapron (Nov 3, 2010)

Registered to a Jemma Piggott, prob fake name - can't find any edl/piggot stuff.


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## audiotech (Nov 3, 2010)

revlon said:


> anybody got any info on these fellas?
> http://nice onesuk.co.uk/index.php



Have a look here:

http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/charlie-flowers-and-niceonesuk/


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## butchersapron (Nov 3, 2010)

Jesus, what a loaf of pointless crap. Their view is about 5 metres in diameter.


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## revlon (Nov 3, 2010)

ah charlie flowers, makes sense


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## Proper Tidy (Nov 3, 2010)

revlon said:


> ah charlie flowers, makes sense


 
He's a right knob. Clearly thinks he's some sort of Facebook godfather, the sad twat.


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## ooermissus (Nov 12, 2010)

I think the EDL are pretty much finished.They were never able to keep their hooligan core under any form of control and even Geert Wilders disowned them when they turned up in Amsterdam.Noone believes they aren't the same racists they always were whether or not they wheel out some token non white faces.UAF are a joke however and tolerate homophobia in the name of religious diversity.


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## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2010)

And sexism.


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## where to (Nov 14, 2010)

incident in Portsmouth yesterday before and after the football:
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Mosque-protest-is-condemned.6624966.jp

another report:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/11/467950.html


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## Balbi (Nov 14, 2010)

where to said:


> incident in Portsmouth yesterday before and after the football:
> http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Mosque-protest-is-condemned.6624966.jp
> 
> another report:
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/11/467950.html


 
 I fucking despair, I really do.


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## Citizen66 (Nov 14, 2010)

> Some cars that drove past beeped in support of the anti-muslims, some of them were beeping from their work cars, the companies involved were; Aqua Cars, Anglian Home Improvements, Wessex Demolition and the charity, Forces Support.



How can one deduce whether the sound of the honk of a car horn is in support of one side or the other or, indeed, in support of anyone at all?


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## Balbi (Nov 14, 2010)

Especially on Victoria Road North, there's the roundabout there with the bridge going to Asda and the train station at the next roundabout over.


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## DrRingDing (Nov 14, 2010)

The EDL are growing. Both in the City I live and my home town.

I was hoping the local fash would keep it off the street.


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## Corax (Nov 15, 2010)

Took a virtual stroll around Wilstead today, and came across this:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Wil...=qRTHuBlvSKfGJAD64XLdpg&cbp=12,273.33,,0,6.62

Hmm.  Tommy 'Stephen Yaxley-Lennon' Robinson lives in Wilstead.  I wonder where?


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## Das Uberdog (Nov 16, 2010)

EDL demonstrating in Preston on the 27th. UAF have undermined the attempts of local activists to build a meaningful demo in conjunction with them by changing the location of the counter-demo from the flagmarket to the fishmarket (close by, but easily separated and secured by a bottleneck) and gearing up for a LMHR disco. plans for non-UAF to turn up outside the police kettle at the flagmarket, but UAF will get the numbers.


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## OneStrike (Nov 16, 2010)

Also reported that the EDL will also be demonstrating in Nuneaton on the 27th, Warwickshire police are reassuring customers that they will be safe to shop as per Normal.


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## Das Uberdog (Nov 20, 2010)

UAF have sabotaged themselves in an attempt to prevent a meaningful anti-EDL in Preston, deleting their wn facebook group advertizing the event (because others were posting on the wall) and starting not only a new 'invite only' event, but also a new invite/request only UAF group (to stop people posting on the wall). They currently have 39 out of a previous total of 200+.


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## Tacita (Nov 27, 2010)

interesting coverage in the local news


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## mr steev (Nov 27, 2010)

Looks like the twats have started threatening councils now..



> EDL leader Tommy Robinson said in the letter: "Please keep Christmas as Christmas and not let our culture and traditions be eroded and preserve English values.
> 
> "Any council that does not keep the word Christmas in the annual celebrations and opts for Winter Festival, out of the politically correct appeasement of others to the detriment of our traditions, will have their town/city visited by the English Defence League throughout the following year."



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11848225


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## DrRingDing (Nov 27, 2010)

Peterborough on the 11th December.

There will be a fair bit of support there.....and opposition from the Asian lads, hopefully.


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## cliche guevara (Nov 27, 2010)

Are these cunts doing something in London today? Seems to be a lot of them about.


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## sunnysidedown (Nov 27, 2010)

mr steev said:


> Looks like the twats have started threatening councils now..
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11848225



Any chance we can get back our pagan celebration and they can piss off back to Bethlehem with their fucking christianity.


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## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

Das Uberdog said:


> EDL demonstrating in Preston on the 27th. UAF have undermined the attempts of local activists to build a meaningful demo in conjunction with them by changing the location of the counter-demo from the flagmarket to the fishmarket (close by, but easily separated and secured by a bottleneck) and gearing up for a LMHR disco. plans for non-UAF to turn up outside the police kettle at the flagmarket, but UAF will get the numbers.


 
UAF and Preston and South Ribble TUC jointly booked the flag market for the 27th before the EDL attempted to book the flag market for their March.  Despite the booking from UAF/TUC being accepted they were then bumped to allowed the EDL to march and congregate on the flag market.   The fish market is the area the UAF/TUC was offered by the council/police.


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## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

Das Uberdog said:


> UAF have sabotaged themselves in an attempt to prevent a meaningful anti-EDL in Preston, deleting their wn facebook group advertizing the event (because others were posting on the wall) and starting not only a new 'invite only' event, but also a new invite/request only UAF group (to stop people posting on the wall). They currently have 39 out of a previous total of 200+.


 
I agree that was a bad move, they should have just moderated the original event/wall etc to remove incorrect information.


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## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

Anyway, report from Preston so far, I've seen tons of police, only seen 2 coachloads of EDL coming in but haven't been in the centre all day.  Was very quiet earlier on in terms of the usual numbers of shoppers you would see on a Saturday a month before Xmas.  Tons of police all over the place, got stopped at traffic lights earlier on so they could escort a coachload of EDL through so they wouldn't have to stop at the lights and one of the main roads into the centre was blocked earlier so a coach could drop off near the pubs where they're meeting before the march.


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## The39thStep (Nov 27, 2010)

1000 EDL and 150 UAF in Preston.


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## The39thStep (Nov 27, 2010)

Nick Lowles reports that 'its going off' in Nuneaton .


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## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

http://twitter.com/Exposingtweets


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## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

From what I've worked out from twitter feeds, UAF & associated counter protest are on covered market area, EDL are split into two groups, larger one on flag market, smaller group coming up friargate.  Police are blocking the roads and alleyways which give access to the coveredmarket (fish market).  The only barriers erected to stop the EDL and UAF protests meeting were between covered market and flag market, nothing round the back which is where they seem to be approaching from, as far as I can tell.

Preston Council just tweeted: "Preston is open for business as usual, the protests are due to finish at 2pm."


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## where to (Nov 27, 2010)

off twitter:



> Please report Nick Lowles to the police for incitement to violence at the EDL demo.Lowles is stirring on his twitter account



his updates certainly don't tie up with local press blog reporting.


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## where to (Nov 27, 2010)

Lancashire Telegraph twitter comments today, start at the bottom:



> # The official protest areas are now virtually empty with the cordons and barriers being taken away.     less than 20 seconds ago
> 
> 
> A group of around 100 EDL protesters are on Fishergate chanting offensive songs. 5 minutes ago v
> ...


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## where to (Nov 27, 2010)

Nick Lowles earlier:



> Real trouble is breaking out in Preston. There are two groups of EDL, one, in the main square of 6-800 and then a second group of 200. Both are fighting with everyone. This is the worst trouble we've seen at an EDL demo.



seems to have been talking shite.


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## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

video here of edl on the flag market taken from crown of onlookers on cheapside, this would certainly suggest there are not 600-800 on the flag market area of their protest...


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## SpineyNorman (Nov 27, 2010)

Lowles has just sent out an email containing this paragraph: "I'm sorry to write to you at the weekend but I felt you needed to know about the violence caused by the EDL today in Preston and Nuneaton. Bricks, bottles, coins, smoke grenades, fireworks and thunderflashes have rained down on police and local people in both places. As I write this I'm hearing of people with serious head injuries being led away."

There's also a picture of what he claims to be a "flash grenade". I have no idea whether it is - it actually looks like a diseased squid! (sorry, can't figure out how to post images when I don't have a URL)


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## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2010)

SpineyNorman said:


> Lowles has just sent out an email containing this paragraph: "I'm sorry to write to you at the weekend but I felt you needed to know about the violence caused by the EDL today in Preston and Nuneaton. Bricks, bottles, coins, smoke grenades, fireworks and thunderflashes have rained down on police and local people in both places. As I write this I'm hearing of people with serious head injuries being led away."
> 
> There's also a picture of what he claims to be a "flash grenade". I have no idea whether it is - it actually looks like a diseased squid! (sorry, can't figure out how to post images when I don't have a URL)


right click, copy image location


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## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2010)

where to said:


> Nick Lowles earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> seems to have been talking shite.


 the more things change the more they stay the same.


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## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

I think that's the image he's been emailing:


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## SpineyNorman (Nov 27, 2010)

Pickman's model said:


> right click, copy image location


 
Cheers. I'll remember that for the future.


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## elbows (Nov 27, 2010)

Im in Nuneaton, but didnt venture out. For a while in the early afternoon I could hear the EDL chants from my house, as the wind was blowing in the right direction. There were a couple of bangs around the same time but I obviously cant confirm what they were. The police helicopter went up shortly later and remained in the area for quite some time. 

It sounds like the EDL were allowed to march here. I was under the impression that they were supposed to be penned in at this location which is conveniently overshadowed by the local police station/court building, maybe that happened later after thy had finished marching. I am thinking that much of the trouble happened when the EDL marched past where the counter-demonstrators were penned in.


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## elbows (Nov 27, 2010)

The 2nd half of this video features the flashpoint in Nuneaton today, not terribly dramatic.



And here is quite a good look at the EDL as they march towards their enclosure:


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## Corax (Nov 27, 2010)

elbows said:


> There were a couple of bangs around the same time but I obviously cant confirm what they were. The police helicopter went up shortly later


 
Fuck me!


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## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

footage from preston today.  you can see missiles, fireworks etc being thrown into the crowd where the filming was taking place, these were onlookers, not the counter protest.


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## elbows (Nov 27, 2010)

Well the police helicopter is no stranger to my part of Nuneaton, or Nuneaton in general. Im in the main muslim area just outside the town centre, which the EDL got very close to the first time they came here. The polcie never let them get anywhere near here during subsequent EDL protests. But all the same there were sirens & the helicopter very close to my house this afternoon so I presume they were trying to deal with possible small breakaway groups in this area.

Either way according to Warwickshire police there have been 5 arrests today so not exactly trouble on a large scale, think there were more arrests at previous EDL events here although todays looked to be the most heavily attended (previous events here were centred around military parades rather than the EDL having their own big march).


----------



## treelover (Nov 27, 2010)

Preston can do without this at Xmas Time, if they don't do well in the shops then, they are stuck


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

treelover said:


> Preston can do without this at Xmas Time, if they don't do well in the shops then, they are stuck


 
You're telling me.  The police don't need to cost of policing a march like this either, especially on the same day they have to police the PNE vs Milwall match in Deepdale, and the centre of town was VERY heavily policed today.  Reports from twitter (although no idea if true or not) that after being loaded back onto their coaches they moved on to Chorley and Manchester to cause trouble there.


----------



## treelover (Nov 27, 2010)

its all quite frightening , anyone who felt the EDL could be a broad based group and give marginalised people  a voice(however misguided) has left dissolusioned, this may be our very own S.A


----------



## killer b (Nov 27, 2010)

s.a?


----------



## treelover (Nov 27, 2010)

brownshirts


----------



## killer b (Nov 27, 2010)

of course. don't you think that's a bit hysterical?


----------



## Prince Rhyus (Nov 27, 2010)

See http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/


----------



## radio_atomica (Nov 27, 2010)

Yep been reading that all day.  The reports from Preston don't match the twitter feeds, reports from people there, local paper, police etc.  I know the police under-report any shit that goes down but that guy has been posting about both Preston and Nuneaton all day but hasn't stated where he actually was...


----------



## Fisher_Gate (Nov 27, 2010)

The39thStep said:


> 1000 EDL and 150 UAF in Preston.


 
I counted 250 UAF.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 27, 2010)

Fisher_Gate said:


> I counted 250 UAF.


 
Exactly?


----------



## Fisher_Gate (Nov 27, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> Exactly?


 
To the nearest 10


----------



## killer b (Nov 27, 2010)

it looks like a lot less than a thousand EDL too - the area they were penned into would only fit a few hundred in...


----------



## killer b (Nov 27, 2010)

'sport are troops'


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 27, 2010)




----------



## audiotech (Nov 28, 2010)

An old Australian themed gag:

What's your favourite pastime sport. 

I have more you'll be saddened to hear.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 28, 2010)

What's your favourite colour blue.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 28, 2010)

Tom Nairn, considered one of the key thinkers of the (British) New Left. From 1962, with Perry Anderson in New Left Review. Nairn in his published work:The Enchanted Glass (1988), a serious modern investigations into the British Monarchy, made reference to the state using reactionary forces to be brought into view to be used as a threat, conveniently built up as potential attack dogs  to counter the growth and influence of progressive movements, usually of the left in times of crisis. Used as part of the states resources of checks and balances.

The EDL appear to be the reactionary force being used in a similar fashion at present. It's no surprise then to see, increasingly so, these reactionary forces turning up at meetings organised by left groups, using intimidatory tactics, including disruption, threats oif and actual violence.

Expect more of the same and also be prepared for a possible escalation in this tactic, as the current crisis deepens. It could get ugly, so security needs to be stepped up as a priority. Some are so lax on this it borders on amateur night at the wheel tappers and shunters club open mic night, with Orville the duck appointed cheif steward.

The whole scheme could also back-fire on those in control, losing the leash to be  let loose completely are there other forces able to pick it up? I doubt it. Letting the attack dogs roam off the leash is a dangerous option and not one favoured by anyone least of all the authorities. The consequences have the potential to be dire and that would not be allowed to happen.

In a recent meeting, with Peter Hain in attendance, people attending this meeting were instructed to remove the batteries from all the mobile phones that people had bought with them into the meeting. Some may find it extraordinary that an ex minister and presently an elected representative, an MP and a member of the opposition, felt it necessarily for this to happen, believing that there was a possibilty that the meeting itself was being monitored by certain forces. 

Could these forces be the "secret state" David Shayler, the ex MI5 officer, who was imprisoned, referred to in the book he co-wrote with his ex partner, Annie Machon, another former intelligence officer. 

Even the Queen herself has in the past mentioned "dark forces" operating in this country. These forces are reportedly accountable to no one and appear to act with impunity, who are above the law, using any means necessary, including killing people, even those who are innocent bystanders have been victims with some being killed during operations (Libya is mentioned where innocent lives were lost) and referred to as "collateral damage".

Democracy my arse seems an appropriate term with this knowledge uppermost, of a serious, systemic fault, appearing beneficial  to anti-democratic forces built into the system. This in stark contrast to how the niave believe it to be, that is, fair and benign, serving the interests of the population as a whole. Something likened to Disneyland, but in reality can be easily become like the Village, with the character of prisoner, but lacking any quaint facade and definately no one with the Number 6.badge pinned to a well tailored blazer. This is no series with a walk on part. Not even I'm afraid a well known actor in cameo.

Room 101 on the other hand is more likely, updated with the latest implements of horror nightmares are made off.

Or do people think this to be a load of old bollocks?

Consider carefully before replying to this particular question, as I recognise it's open to be ridiculed, or abused for comedy effect.

I do expect some agreement to the load of old bollocks comment I've posted, that can be replied to if you are in agreement with this, but do try to restrain yourself from being a complete arse when considering the question. I expect some will view this as a fun option and there is a real possibility for some to take an opportunity to act like blithering idiots after reading the question. This is Urban75 afterall, with a fair share of comedians in residence. No offence meant.


----------



## killer b (Nov 28, 2010)

i'll go with 'old bollocks' please, bob.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 28, 2010)

What do posters read into Searchlights MAC/EDL are the same line that is being pushed/


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2010)

The very first thing that strikes me is their incoherence in practice . Making the correct argument (that they and others should have listened to 18 months ago) in the paper that the EDL and fundies feed off each other, whilst in reality and at the same time doing exactly what the edl want - bigging them up with hysterical bollocks all day yesterday turning them into exactly the bogeyman the fundies want and need to bolster themselves.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Nov 28, 2010)

The39thStep said:


> Nick Lowles reports that 'its going off' in Nuneaton .



http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/m...g-edl-protest-in-warwickshire-66331-27728947/


----------



## albionism (Nov 28, 2010)

killer b said:


> 'sport are troops'



hahaha No wonder they are forging links with the Tea Party idiots.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 28, 2010)

treelover said:


> its all quite frightening , anyone who felt the EDL could be a broad based group and give marginalised people  a voice(however misguided) has left dissolusioned, this may be our very own S.A



Promoting fear leads to a paralysis that the forces of reaction can only gain from. A contribution you appear to came out with at times when what is required is less hysterical in tone and involves a tactic that isn't an over reaction to such events, with some level headed, response, involving thought, before engaging gob.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 29, 2010)

Nigel Copsey has recently authored a report for Faith Matters on the EDL arguing no counterdemos , 'inter faith' activities targeted towards white working class youth and a potential ban on Facebook for the EDL if it contravenes their acceptable use policy.

Reasonable summary of the EDL in that it consludes whilst containing far right white nationalists it is not the BNP's boot boys but thin otherwise.

http://faith-matters.org/images/stories/fm-reports/english-defense-league-report.pdf


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Nov 30, 2010)

Kent EDL are planning to hold a meeting tomorrow December 1st at O' Connells bar in Chatham,Kent.
O' Connells is located at 13 Ordnance Terrace Chatham Kent ME4 6PS.Start time is 8pm
You can ring them and POLITELY ask why they are holding an EDL meeting on 01634 842 138. Remember, they may not be aware of the nature of the meeting so be nice...


----------



## juice_terry (Nov 30, 2010)

Meeting cancelled... booked under something else.. dafties had booked their meeting in the local Celtic Supporters Club.. You couldn't make it up


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Nov 30, 2010)

juice_terry said:


> Meeting cancelled... booked under something else.. dafties had booked their meeting in the local Celtic Supporters Club.. You couldn't make it up


Can anyone confirm this?


----------



## juice_terry (Nov 30, 2010)

Spoken to the landlady... it's my local csc


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Nov 30, 2010)

juice_terry said:


> Spoken to the landlady... it's my local csc


just had a rambling 'threatening'  message from an EDL member Mark Mccourt at FB who reckons they will still be meeting???
Is it the medway?


----------



## juice_terry (Nov 30, 2010)

Yes mate


----------



## juice_terry (Dec 2, 2010)

http://www.kentnews.co.uk/p_12/Article/a_9434/Far-right_groups_meeting_cancelled_by_pub


----------



## juice_terry (Dec 2, 2010)

[


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 2, 2010)

EDL turned up at Blackburn to welcome home the troops 

small snippet on the video after 30 seconds 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-11887492

ten arrests for drunk and disorderly


----------



## audiotech (Dec 11, 2010)

Reports of fifty EDL supporters attacking the rear of the Peterborough Trade Union Council counter-demonstration today. Police separated and contained both groups. Reports of missiles being thrown. Police estimate of 1,000 at EDL static protest. Cambridgeshire police say 5 arrests.

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/local/uneasy_peace_after_demonstrations_1_1894443


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 11, 2010)

They're ready to defend themselves. They did. EDL got a good slapping.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 12, 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11978807


----------



## _angel_ (Dec 12, 2010)

aki nawaz hero


----------



## Kanda (Dec 13, 2010)

Anonymous have posted a donator list: http://pastebin.com/pa1YAp9D


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 13, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> They're ready to defend themselves. They did. EDL got a good slapping.




This is mainly a video of people using mobile phones to take pictures


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 13, 2010)

_angel_ said:


> aki nawaz hero



Hello Mr L.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 13, 2010)

Anonymous V's EDL

i know who my money is on


----------



## Das Uberdog (Dec 14, 2010)

http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=179218858770566

the EDL have set up a fake demo, presumably as some kind of trap to lure kids in to get battered.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 15, 2010)

EDL intervention at UAFs Islamaphobia conference 

http:// theenglishdefenceleagueextra.blogspot.com/2010/12/violence-against-edl-at-islamophobia.html


----------



## audiotech (Dec 15, 2010)

That report is even below the standards set by the Daily Star. A cake addict with Tourettes could do better.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 16, 2010)

Quite a bizarre speech from Tommy at the Peterborough demo in which he praised British Police and got very upset about the students' desecration of the 'prophet' Winston Churchills statue.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 16, 2010)

audiotech said:


> That report is even below the standards set by the Daily Star. A cake addict with Tourettes could do better.


 
not sure which leaders these are :



> Muslim leaders have warned that British soldiers will die if Jones is allowed into the UK.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 19, 2010)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12024824

2 edl banned from protests outside brum


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 19, 2010)

Must be one of the first times an asbo has ben used politically?

From the quote below it seems that there is now a ntional line from the State on the EDL :



> Det Con Andy Haworth, of the National Domestic Extremism Unit, said: "While the defence leagues are entitled to protest, violence has been a persistent feature of their demonstrations, and we hope the success of today's application will prevent that violence."


----------



## JimW (Dec 19, 2010)

Thin end of a long wedge, innit.


----------



## where to (Dec 19, 2010)

political equivalent of football banning orders, test them out on far right casual linked protesters then once public are used to it roll them out across the board.

hmm.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 19, 2010)

where to said:


> political equivalent of football banning orders, test them out on far right casual linked protesters then once public are used to it roll them out across the board.
> 
> hmm.



not good at all, be interested to know what the UAF are saying about it.

on another point, was surpsrised to see one of the EDlers calling for a vote for the IWCA : 

http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/4007627/1/ 

BobFront   	  7 minutes ago   Post #25
No Avatar



	fcuk UKIP they're just a bunch of upper and middle class dusty old farts that have only their interests at heart.

You want a working class organisation, hates fundamentalist Islam, hates the BNP, community based then the IWCA are much better alternative.

http://www.iwca.info/


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 19, 2010)

cantsin said:


> not good at all, be interested to know what the UAF are saying about it.
> 
> on another point, was surpsrised to see one of the EDlers calling for a vote for the IWCA :
> 
> ...


 
On the basis of what he is saying I would agree.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 19, 2010)

cantsin said:


> not good at all, be interested to know what the UAF are saying about it.
> 
> on another point, was surpsrised to see one of the EDlers calling for a vote for the IWCA :
> 
> ...


 
i'd break that link if i were you mate


----------



## audiotech (Dec 19, 2010)

This has been tweeted. Not been confirmed as yet.

From: @imranyusuf
Sent: Dec 19, 2010 20:32

...The EDL planned to protest at a Mosque, due to snow, Muslims have let them inside to keep warm.

sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/imranyusuf/status/16591694057185280


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 19, 2010)




----------



## audiotech (Dec 20, 2010)

It appears the tweeter is a comedian, so a possible piss-take, but hahahaha anyway.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 21, 2010)

Did that catch you out?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 21, 2010)

from Hope not hate...
Guramit "Muslims burn in hell" Singh of the EDL has been arrested for his speech made in Peterborough at the EDL's recent hate rally.


----------



## audiotech (Dec 21, 2010)

The39thStep said:


> Did that catch you out?



Not really.



> This has been tweeted. Not been confirmed as yet.


----------



## nino_savatte (Dec 22, 2010)

I know Imran personally, so yeah, it is a joke.


----------



## audiotech (Dec 26, 2010)

78 English Defence League supporters claim whiplash injuries...but only 25 were on the coach.

A spokeswoman for Caris Coaches in Gateshead, said she is now considering legal action. She said: "They must think we're idiots."

Yesterday even their own supporters were protesting. EDL's Alan Spence wrote on the party's Facebook site:



> Are you taking the p*** or what? There were only 20 people on the f*****g coach.



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...uries-but-only-25-were-coach-115875-22808056/


----------



## stuff_it (Dec 29, 2010)

Lol!

Always cheers me up reading about the antics of the EDL - long may they fail in public. If one never actually saw any of them it would be fully possible to think they were a troll.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 29, 2010)

stuff_it said:


> Lol!
> 
> Always cheers me up reading about the antics of the EDL - long may they fail in public. If one never actually saw any of them it would be fully possible to think they were a troll.


 
not sure if their 'public failures ' are important tbh  - meanwhile if the football related forum I go on is anything to go by, they're seeing the Luton Feb 5th demo as their chance to up the antes / do what they see the students as having done - ie : change the political climate with regard to their 'agenda'  via  militant, big numbers on the street, as opposed to the 1.5 k at most they've got out so far ( a 1.5k that would scatter 10 k UAF given the chance).  The fact their 'agenda' is a joke maybe become an issue further down the line,( unless they manage to cobble together a coherent one as they go )  but for now I see some momentum behind them going into 011.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 30, 2010)




----------



## Gingerman (Dec 31, 2010)

http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2010/12/edl-gloating-backfire.html
EDL gloat over war vets death,nice fuckin going knuckleheads


----------



## audiotech (Jan 1, 2011)

I'm hearing that quite a few racist Facebook pages were brought down last night by a groups called "ZHC" and "team poison".


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 3, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Z-company/160532353992767?v=wall

they took the main page down i think? and looks like they Surendered.... lol


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 4, 2011)

http://theenglishdefenceleagueextra.blogspot.com/2010/12/our-campaign-for-richard-price-edl-and.html

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/01/471527.html

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....  x 1000


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

So Villa's #1 is a nonce?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 4, 2011)

you couldnt make this shit up could you?

they have put out a stament saying something like, he was told if he admitted it then nothing more would be said, so they stiched him up!!

not read the main EDL page yet as in work.... 

NS !! lmfao


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

They're saying that he got the pc 2nd hand and the pics weren't his, nonetheless he pleaded guilty " something that any man in his position would be forced into doing." - big mistake to try and defend him. I know why they're trying to keep him onside though. He knows where the bodies are buried.


----------



## IC3D (Jan 4, 2011)

^^ Any man would obviously admit to being a nonce to limit damage to their reputation  he is in the EDL though.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 4, 2011)

can anyone post up the EDL staement? i can't view facebook in work and fancy a laugh. 

cheers


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

> A reply by Tommy Robinson
> 
> On the 10th October 2009 the English Defence League held a demonstration in the city of Manchester. On the morning of the demonstration one of the members of the EDL, Richard Price, had his house unfairly raided by West Midlands Police Force. This was a tactic often used by the police in the early days to try and prevent demonstrations going ahead.
> 
> ...


.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 4, 2011)

just home and they have pulled that now, glad you posted it  

fucking idiots.

http://twitpic.com/3n0w11/full


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 5, 2011)

few it's all forgoten now, Tommy has come out and said he's now ex-edl so everything is cool....


----------



## Fingers (Jan 5, 2011)

Latest statement from Yaxley Lennon from the EDL Facebook page, completely contradicting what he saud yesterday after he was exposed covering for his nonce friend



> Richard price pleaded guilty, we condemn him. He is no longer and will never be in the edl. Our original statement was wrote before the times article come out. We were going on what we were told. All peadophillia is sick. And it's one of the main reason we stand against Islam. The point I made was that from July, 6 months ago, pricey had no involvement as seen in our leadership statement. Yes he was one of the founding members but no longer has any involvement with this movement. We can't be held responsible for individuals actions no matter how backward and disturbed they may be. Pricey= ex edl



The leadership are currently in crisis and their facebook pages is getting spammed to death with trolls making paedo jokes,  so much so they are having to close comments until there are admins available. Any post on their discussion board is deleted and all posts by their own members are being deleted.  Beautiful!

P-p-p-p-do


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 5, 2011)

yeah i saw EDL chat get closed last night, anything before that the mentioned Ricard Price was wiped, also on the EDL forums all threads where wiped/locked. 

anyone who spoke out about it was not real EDL and comments where wiped, most of the thick fucks think he was stiched up and it's old news, time to move on etc. 

Then last night Tommy posted this massive thing about Heroin which to me was just a massive smoke screen that they wanted to move talk about Pricey and onto the evils of drugs... which is a massive LOL if you ask me.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 5, 2011)

Well an EDL member posted this on the smokescreen post and it got deleted within minutes


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Bit of humour from that lionheart christian nutter knob:


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 5, 2011)

My prediction for the EDL is that thee will be a massive scam pulled on the merchandise, a lot of orders will go missing and someone will do a runner with the cash. 

They charge £10 for a face mask inc postage, they claim they have 70,000 members, if only half of them buy something, face mask hoddy etc.. that's a lot of cash to be floating about, and lots of it is made to order from what i have seen.


----------



## audiotech (Jan 5, 2011)

EDL declare gang warfare in Luton.

Not a very good article all in all, but gives some insight of the EDL, apparently shifting away from being a 'protest group' and towards an 'organised street gang'. Not much chance of that I would have thought and an indication of their weakness IMO.

http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/2607389423/edl-declare-gang-warfare-in-luton


----------



## Fingers (Jan 5, 2011)




----------



## Gingerman (Jan 5, 2011)

Edl,fighting to protect great English traditions from the islamofaction of this country, such as downloading kiddie porn


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

EDL now the uk franchise of the nambla.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 5, 2011)

How long before the split and we get to see the REAL EDL set up?


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 5, 2011)

audiotech said:


> EDL declare gang warfare in Luton.
> 
> Not a very good article all in all, but gives some insight of the EDL, apparently shifting away from being a 'protest group' and towards an 'organised street gang'. Not much chance of that I would have thought and an indication of their weakness IMO.
> 
> http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/2607389423/edl-declare-gang-warfare-in-luton


 
I had a chat with local EDL members in a pub recently and to be honest they were more a support our troops groupie sort of lot , full of misinformation about Muslim extremism but in no way a gang. Not to say that their demos attract a far more insidious layer, but this is a good example of the uneveness of facebook type organisations.The article you quote doesn't give much insight into anything apart from the  over reliance on the internet for information by those who blog.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> How long before the split and we get to see the REAL EDL set up?


 
Already had the Nice Ones UK breakway led by Charlie Flowers, don't know how serious that was though.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 6, 2011)

Wtf are 'gambinos'? I thought they were a New York organised crime syndicate.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Wtf are 'gambinos'? I thought they were a New York organised crime syndicate.



I assume it's a real or imagined (most likely real) asian gang in Luton?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 6, 2011)

They get confused bless them...

anyway 5th Feb will be intresting, some cliam over 5k going..... it will either kick off on a massive scale or the recent events will mean not so many show up.... anyone who has left the EDL over the past 2 days has had their comments removed and mostly been told they are not real EDL anyway.... lol


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They get confused bless them...
> 
> anyway 5th Feb will be intresting, some cliam over 5k going..... it will either kick off on a massive scale or the recent events will mean not so many show up.... anyone who has left the EDL over the past 2 days has had their comments removed and mostly been told they are not real EDL anyway.... lol



If you don't support nonces you're not real EDL.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 6, 2011)

P p pdl !!! P p pdl !!! 


:d


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 6, 2011)

Tommy has released a new stament on the main EDL page on facebook.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 6, 2011)

Must remember that the edl 'top paedo' was also done for having crack -maybe this will explain their campaign against the islamification of the hard drug trade (the 'Chemical Jihad ' as they called it)?

Crack, at his age 

(yes, i know this is all froth and has little to do with the wider social forces behind these idiots, but it's a laugh for now. A serious point is that this is as clear an indication as any that the edl are incapable of doing the sort of organised ground-work and consistent community based activity that the BNP have shown themselves capable of, meaning they're utterly unable to put down any sort of roots. This bloke was in the 'leadership' and the rest of the 'leaderships' pathetic back-tracking, contradictory positions, censorship and group splitting reaction to this tells us all we need to know about their tactical nous).


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They get confused bless them...
> 
> anyway 5th Feb will be intresting, some cliam over 5k going..... it will either kick off on a massive scale or the recent events will mean not so many show up.... anyone who has left the EDL over the past 2 days has had their comments removed and mostly been told they are not real EDL anyway.... lol


 
No in between there Bob?


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 6, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Must remember that the edl 'top paedo' was also done for having crack -maybe this will explain their campaign against the islamification of the hard drug trade (the 'Chemical Jihad ' as they called it)?
> 
> Crack, at his age
> 
> (yes, i know this is all forth and has little to do with the wider social forces behind these idiots, but it's a laugh for now. A serious point is that this is as clear an indication as any that the edl are incapable of doing the sort of organised ground-work and consistent community based activity that the BNP have shown themselves capable of, meaning they're utterly unable to put down any sort of roots. This bloke was in the 'leadership' and the rest of the 'leaderships' pathetic back-tracking, contradictory positions, censorship and group splitting reaction to this tells us all we need to know about their tactical nous).


 
Didn't Griffin have a similar phrase re Chemical Jihad?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 6, 2011)

He did yeah, tried it out on news-night if i remember rightly.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 6, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> No in between there Bob?


 
nope... one or the other... just my opinion of course


----------



## Fingers (Jan 6, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Jan 6, 2011)

I pointed out on the main EDL page that pricey was charged in July which is when they changed the stament on the EDL leadership team just a month after the said pricey was and founding member.... it didn't last long before they wiped it and banned me... maybe tommy knew back then?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 7, 2011)

EDL Tameside Division are holding a meeting tonight at The Cotton Bale (Wetherspoons)
21-25 Market Place, Hyde, Cheshire,SK14 2LX. Telephone 0161 351 0380.
Please ring the pub and POLITELY ask the manager if he was aware that racist thugs are using his pub as a meeting place. Remember keep it nice and friendly .
Wetherspoons Head Office 01923 477777
Wetherspoons Press Officer Eddy Gershon 07956 392234

There has been a precedent set.. they just need reminding:
http://manchestermule.com/article/wetherspoons-ban-the-english-defence-league


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 7, 2011)

cant confirm 100% yet but: "Just spoken to the manager of The Cotton Bale and they are closing tonight because they have had so many calls about it."


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 7, 2011)

yup confirmed... Pub is closing tonight... lol the EDL cant even get a drink in a weatherspoons!!!!


----------



## Fingers (Jan 7, 2011)

Yup they are deffo scuppered on that one. Tameside does not want them.

Yaxley Lennon's court case is on the 12th, assaulting a copper. He has been done for it before (and other stuff) so I reckon he is looking at a bit it of bird, sharing a cell with Mr 'big fucker' Sadiq. He may have to miss the Luton Demo on the 6th Feb.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2011)

He's also removed the last statement about Richard Price now after people asked questions about how long he knew and stuff...

people putting 2 and 2 together that he was nicked in July and Tommy removed him from the leadership in July... lol


----------



## Prince Rhyus (Jan 7, 2011)

- EDL/UAF Mockumentary - comments on a postcard please


----------



## Fingers (Jan 7, 2011)

from HNT

EDL Shropshire Division are holding a meeting tomorrow at Players Sports Bar & Grill
58-59 Mardol,Shrewsbury SY1 1PP Telephone 01743 235 593. 3pm Start.
Please ring the bar and POLITELY ask the manager if he was aware that racist thugs are using his pub as a meeting place. Remember keep it nice and friendly .


----------



## grogwilton (Jan 8, 2011)

Worth posting: EDL member assaults 14 year old on bristol bus: 

EDL linked Lincoln hoolies murder bloke with aspergers: http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk...-violence/article-3030362-detail/article.html


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 8, 2011)

> before you start this is the real steve littlejohn,even though im ex edl ive sacrificed enough when i was to have an opinion
> 
> 40 minutes ago
> 
> ...


----------



## Fingers (Jan 8, 2011)

Steve Littlejohn turned up on the forum the other day to announce that he is definitely not a nonce.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> How long before the split and we get to see the REAL EDL set up?


 
Well is was close, they have gone with United British Infidels


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 10, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-12150314


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 12, 2011)

Just got this:

*English Defence League Rally comes to City *

_As at 12.30 pm today, a number of English Defence League members have come into the City as part of a rally.  Numbers at this stage are small and City of London Police is in attendance and monitoring the situation.

The force will continue to be present and will send out updates providing further information as required._


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 12, 2011)

I see they linked up with the Kahanites in Toronto - into the ground.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 13, 2011)

Urban75 is famous !!!

h**p://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/4058073/1/ 



> That pk sounds alright but the rest of them are scum. I'd like to see their faces when their kids are raped by islamic pedos.


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 13, 2011)

Loosely related, but does anyone know any more about the rumour that Griffin took a punch to the face tonight while on his way to an interview?


----------



## Deareg (Jan 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Urban75 is famous !!!
> 
> 
> You should break that link.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 13, 2011)

Dunno about taking a punch but he was attacked and didn't get into the place
http://jwarren.co.uk/photos/press/bnp-frontline-club/

Bob2009, should you break that link?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 13, 2011)

Done now, but they are reading here anyway...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 13, 2011)

http://jwarren.co.uk/photos/cache/press/bnp-frontline-club/nick-griffin_RAW7464_790.jpg

giant magnets are new fascist weapon


----------



## pk (Jan 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Done now, but they are reading here anyway...


 
Yeah, really clever to put them all across the other thread too. Well done B0B2oo9. Genius.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jan 14, 2011)

If they think this membership is 'commie'...


----------



## Fingers (Jan 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Urban75 is famous !!!
> 
> h**p://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/4058073/1/



This is quite funny considering that one of their founder members is a Paedo and they all rushed to cover up for him. You can always rely on the Paedo Defense League to provide some laughs.


----------



## audiotech (Jan 14, 2011)

"The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has dropped the accusation against Stephen Lennon, 27, of Luton, Bedfordshire, after new evidence emerged. The CPS said Mr Lennon would now face an offence under the Public Order Act."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12174413?


----------



## audiotech (Jan 14, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> Loosely related, but does anyone know any more about the rumour that Griffin took a punch to the face tonight while on his way to an interview?



http://www.demotix.com/news/555996/nick-griffin-forced-retreat-frontline-club-talk


----------



## Serotonin (Jan 14, 2011)

pk said:


> Yeah, really clever to put them all across the other thread too. Well done B0B2oo9. Genius.


 
The EDL think you are 'alright'

You must feel so proud


----------



## audiotech (Jan 14, 2011)

Their poster boy.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2011)

pk said:


> Yeah, really clever to put them all across the other thread too. Well done B0B2oo9. Genius.


 
Yawn.


----------



## pk (Jan 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Yawn.


 
Why didn't you just send them an invitation? Linking to fash sites is and has always been against the board rules.

Yawn all you like, twat, just make sure you've got your shit together because you might well have opened a very fucking ugly can of worms for the mods to deal with.


----------



## pk (Jan 14, 2011)

Deareg said:


> You should break that link.


 
So should you - he has but not before you quoted it!


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2011)

Sorry dad.


----------



## pk (Jan 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Sorry dad.


 
S'alright son. Just don't do it again.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 14, 2011)

In pk's day you'd have been birched, so count yasen fuckin' lucky.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2011)

yeah


----------



## IC3D (Jan 14, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> In pk's day you'd have been birched, so count yasen fuckin' lucky.


 
He's got a firm now I heard


----------



## elbows (Jan 20, 2011)

The last march they had in my area is reported to have cost in the region of 250k to police.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-12229964

They say town centre business was not disrupted but at the time some local businesses complained that everyone had gone home early.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jan 21, 2011)

Reading the posts in this thread you could be forgiven for getting the impression that some posters think the EDL will start to wither away/fragment after the *P P PDL* crisis in their ranks. Although I would like to share the belief in this comfortable analisis, I think this is seriously underestimating the resilience and staying power that stubborn skid marks can have especially when they are morons. 

They'll more likely make vague excuses to themselves and then get back to business as usual, especially as the likes of jack Straw and Toni Bliar have been feeding the press recently with their timely remarks about white meat grooming and islamic extremism. 

What do you think it will be like at luton? Will the UAF chant *P P PDL*. I hope so...


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 21, 2011)

P P P P-DO shirley


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2011)

" pricey is a peado, pricey is a peado, la la la la la la la la "

"P P PDL !!"

"Nonce Defenders"

spring to mind.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 22, 2011)

Mob full of nonces
You're just a mob full of nonces
Etc


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2011)

"Peado founders, off our streets"


----------



## Fingers (Jan 22, 2011)

> 21 Jan 2011 10:34
> EDL SUPPORTERS FINED FOR ON-TRAIN RACIST ABUSE
> 
> 
> ...



http://www.btp.presscentre.com/Medi...ERS-FINED-FOR-ON-TRAIN-RACIST-ABUSE-12f4.aspx


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 22, 2011)

'Kiddy fiddlers, off our streets'

'You're not welcome
You're not welcome
You're not welcome near schools'


----------



## BigTom (Jan 22, 2011)

EDL Flashmobs in Leicester and Chelmsley Wood going on right now apparently.. 
 I don't even know where exactly there are, never been to Chelmsley Wood before, I'm guessing there's a high street.. it's a very white area of brum iirc so I guess they aren't brave/stupid enough to go somewhere were there are lots of muslims and MDL organised ready to kick them again.

edit: changed my mind about going down as it'll take me an hour on my bike and I've got someone coming round this afternoon, got confused about where chelmsley wood is, thought it was next to hall green.. I hope very few ppl will be out anyway after the richard price peado thing.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2011)




----------



## Anudder Oik (Jan 22, 2011)

*And the flashmobs are a sign of...?*

The UAF on their website says that the flashmob tactics of the EDL/PDL are due to the pressure that they “UAF” have applied to them. What pressure? The pressure you get in a kettle, perhaps.

I am very sceptical of so called UAF victories, take Preston for example, where it was claimed that the 100 strong Harry Potter lookalike group who gathered to oppose the 2000 EDL was a “victory” because the Harry Potters were locals and the EDL were not.

You couldn’t get a more twisted logic.

The Flashmob tactic is seen by UAF as a sign that the EDL are on the run. WTF?
If anything it is a stepping up and diversification of activity. Could it be that they are not as monolithic as the UAF?

Quote from UAF website; "_The fact that they have resorted to these smaller, unannounced events this year shows that the pressure is getting to them and their confidence is draining away.
The lesson is clear: mobilising against the EDL works_".

UAF also comes to the conclusion that EDL have abandoned the set piece demos strategy. WTF is Luton, then?
Could it be that the EDL are going to use both tactics from now on or is that too complex and perhaps too “modern” for the UAF to comprehend?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2011)

Who gives a fuck about the UAF and what they think?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2011)

another splitter here...

United Defence League - UDL

http://www.facebook.com/pages/United-Defence-League-UDL/120706058003140?ref=mf

you couldnt make it up.....


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jan 22, 2011)

Doesn't really qualify for splitters if it's one guy on his todd.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2011)

and the UBI?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2011)

also how come the EDL forum is now locked down to outsiders


----------



## audiotech (Jan 22, 2011)

That youtube vid is class BOB2oo9.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 22, 2011)

audiotech said:


> That youtube vid is class BOB2oo9.


 
The Macc Lads gone a bit 'weird'


----------



## pk (Jan 22, 2011)

Anyone remember "Abdul" the muslim guy they kept touting as proof they weren't racist?

Guess what -  he is:


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 23, 2011)

Has anyone sent in names and photos of the kiddy fiddlers to the loons responsible for nonce watch? I feel they ought to know.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 24, 2011)

pk said:


> Anyone remember "Abdul" the muslim guy they kept touting as proof they weren't racist?
> 
> Guess what -  he is:




Yesterdays news I'm afraid


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 24, 2011)

Some EDL Jedi or something ....


----------



## Stigmata (Jan 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Some EDL Jedi or something ....




Firky?!


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jan 24, 2011)

If you go on the youtube channel that uploaded the video, he's linked his facebook on there.
If he has so much distain for Muslims, then why isn't he in Afghanistan fighting them? The 'cowardly cunt'. What a nob-jockey.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 25, 2011)

lol


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 25, 2011)

Who's that cock?


----------



## Fingers (Jan 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> also how come the EDL forum is now locked down to outsiders



It is back again, I think they do that when there are no admin in case anyone comes along and practices free speech (or mention paedo pricey)


----------



## Fingers (Jan 25, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> If you go on the youtube channel that uploaded the video, he's linked his facebook on there.
> If he has so much distain for Muslims, then why isn't he in Afghanistan fighting them? The 'cowardly cunt'. What a nob-jockey.



Because the likes of him are not wanted by members of our armed forces

see here

http://www.arrse.co.uk/arrse-hole/139272-my-view-english-defence-league.html


----------



## CostaNothing (Jan 26, 2011)

EDL members are white working class men who live in areas where diversity is the highest. Working class areas have become immigrant areas, middle class areas haven't. Ethnic displacement is a valid reason for protesting. Those white working class areas have been home to their familes for generations. It's rather rich for middle class multiculturalists, who never have anything to do with black or muslim people, to call them chavs and brush off their predicament.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jan 26, 2011)

CostaNothing said:


> EDL members are white working class men who live in areas where diversity is the highest. Working class areas have become immigrant areas, middle class areas haven't. Ethnic displacement is a valid reason for protesting. Those white working class areas have been home to their familes for generations. It's rather rich for middle class multiculturalists, who never have anything to do with black or muslim people, to call them chavs and brush off their predicament.


 
What you're doing there is confusing "white working class men" and "EDL members". The latter are at best a tiny subset of the former and it's easy to brush off their predicament because they are stupid twats. HTH.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 26, 2011)

CostaNothing said:


> EDL members are white working class men.



Yeah. Yaxley-Lennon is the epitome of working class surnames.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 26, 2011)

CostaNothing said:


> EDL members are white working class men who live in areas where diversity is the highest. Working class areas have become immigrant areas, middle class areas haven't. Ethnic displacement is a valid reason for protesting. Those white working class areas have been home to their familes for generations. It's rather rich for middle class multiculturalists, who never have anything to do with black or muslim people, to call them chavs and brush off their predicament.


 

I'm White working class and live and work in a Multicultural area, at least half of my mates are muslim or mixed race, and you know what not one has tried to blow me up or rape my kids.

now fuck off back to facebook or the EDL forum and preach your hate for the muzzie scum etc.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 26, 2011)

CostaNothing said:


> EDL members are white working class men who live in areas where diversity is the highest. Working class areas have become immigrant areas, middle class areas haven't. Ethnic displacement is a valid reason for protesting. Those white working class areas have been home to their familes for generations. It's rather rich for middle class multiculturalists, who never have anything to do with black or muslim people, to call them chavs and brush off their predicament.



Hang on a minute. When did the EDL become about opposing diversity beyond the 'islamification' of Britain? Either you aren't EDL, you don't know what you're talking about or the mask is slipping. 

Probably a mixture of two and three.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jan 26, 2011)

EDL/BNP tosser.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 26, 2011)

CostaNothing said:


> EDL members are white working class men who live in areas where diversity is the highest. Working class areas have become immigrant areas, middle class areas haven't. Ethnic displacement is a valid reason for protesting. Those white working class areas have been home to their familes for generations. It's rather rich for middle class multiculturalists, who never have anything to do with black or muslim people, to call them chavs and brush off their predicament.


 
What you mean is that it's perfectly acceptable for the far-right to seek to piggy back on working class discontent with social conditions and attempt to turn the social reasons behind their problems into racial ones. I think most 'white working class men' (if you want to speak about just men) have pretty clearly signaled their rejection of these attempts by their real lifes and actions haven't they?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

CostaNothing said:


> EDL members are white working class men who live in areas where diversity is the highest. Working class areas have become immigrant areas, middle class areas haven't. Ethnic displacement is a valid reason for protesting. Those white working class areas have been home to their familes for generations. It's rather rich for middle class multiculturalists, who never have anything to do with black or muslim people, to call them chavs and brush off their predicament.


 
I know it fits your cosy little worldview to pretend that anti-racism and anti-fascism is a middle class thang, but it's fucking wrong. Which is probably why the EDL (WDL, CDL, WC, CU, whatever the fuck they're calling themselves today) are a fucking dead duck in that notorious middle class enclave of Wales. Lol.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 26, 2011)

They're also the size of a midge's dick compared to the trades union movement who they oppose and, funnily enough, contain working class people.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jan 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Because the likes of him are not wanted by members of our armed forces
> 
> see here
> 
> http://www.arrse.co.uk/arrse-hole/139272-my-view-english-defence-league.html


 
That'd be the same McCreery who wants his bacon box masters back??


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh yes... lol


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> That'd be the same McCreery who wants his bacon box masters back??



lol

have a look at this, not EDL related but BNP. Same type of racist tosser. This fuckwit gets the BNP and a well known bank mixed up

h**p://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1428668


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

CostaNothing said:


> EDL members are white working class men who live in areas where diversity is the highest. Working class areas have become immigrant areas, middle class areas haven't. Ethnic displacement is a valid reason for protesting. Those white working class areas have been home to their familes for generations. It's rather rich for middle class multiculturalists, who never have anything to do with black or muslim people, to call them chavs and brush off their predicament.



That fell over at the first sentence. EDL members do not tend to work, they bludgeon off the welfare state whilst getting drunk and blaming brown people for their own lack of social skills.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

If he had any point, it was the crappy tactic of some of labelling the EDL & co as 'dole scroungers', 'chavs', etc. Fucking leave it out.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh I have no issue taking dole scroungers to task. Especially when they are a bunch of racist tools who blame their lack of motivation and any will to get a job on brown people.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh I have no issue taking dole scroungers to task. Especially when they are a bunch of racist tools who blame their lack of motivation and any will to get a job on brown people.


 
Oh yeah, cos there are fucking loads of jobs at the moment. All 2.5 million JSA claimants could find a job tomorrow, if only they switched off Jeremy Kyle and _got on their bikes_. You knob.

Replacing race hatred with class hatred is no fucking better.


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh I have no issue taking dole scroungers to task. Especially when they are a bunch of racist tools who blame their lack of motivation and any will to get a job on brown people.


 
Playing right into their hands


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 26, 2011)

How long before one of these nutters blow's something up? or burns down a mosque?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

They're planning a board invasion of here according to that thread you linked up a few pages back Bob. Lol.

Hearts and minds!


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jan 26, 2011)

As an aside, did anyone trawl through that ARRSE thread long enough to see the 'UniteAgainstFacism' (sic) poster antagonise the squaddies? Clearly an EDL twat on the wind up, I mean what sort of mong says "I wouldn't come to East London if I were you, soldiers aren't liked there".


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> They're planning a board invasion of here according to that thread you linked up a few pages back Bob. Lol.
> 
> Hearts and minds!


 
Are 20 of them going to show up and get drunk before shouting a bit and then head for the pub?  That sort of thing can bring real change.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 26, 2011)

yeah, good bring it on, they can't ban us and they can't delete our arguments here like they do on the facebooks and the Forums they use. 

will be nice to see them debate where both sides can be read, and they can't call anyone who disagrees with them a commie UAF infiltrator... lol

they might start to understand that every day people think they are fuckwits, not just the muzzies and the UAF. 

give it 30 mins before one offers me out over the internet.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 26, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Are 20 of them going to show up and get drunk before shouting a bit and then head for the pub?  That sort of thing can bring real change.


 
Will they have flags? do you have a flag?*






* if not i can sell you one for £20 on ebay or something,


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jan 26, 2011)

urban 75 - give us our bAcon burGers bak!


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jan 26, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> urban 75 - give us our bAcon burGers bak!


 
fuk of u commie basterd, u jus want an islamic sharia state were we cant hav bacun boxmasters. allh is a PEDO lolololol


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Oh yeah, cos there are fucking loads of jobs at the moment. All 2.5 million JSA claimants could find a job tomorrow, if only they switched off Jeremy Kyle and _got on their bikes_. You knob.
> 
> Replacing race hatred with class hatred is no fucking better.



I have meet plenty when I have the misfortune to go back to the East Midlands, I cannot think of one that has done a days work in their life, jobs aplenty or not. So how about you fuck off.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> I have meet plenty when I have the misfortune to go back to the East Midlands, I cannot think of one that has done a days work in their life, jobs aplenty or not. So how about you fuck off.


 
Fuck off tory


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Will they have flags? do you have a flag?*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
sport are flags


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Fuck off tory


 

Tory? lol


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

Tory or Liberal


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

there no difference these days is there?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

Not much, tories are more honest about being cunts. So you probably are a liberal.


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 26, 2011)

Definite liberal


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

OK if we are name calling I am going to accuse you of being an EDL Hugger. OK? Watch they don't spill their Stella on you!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

Fuck off liberal. Mind you don't spill your costa on your iphone you cunt.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

quite a temper there eh?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh sorry, I thought we were making sweeping generalisations based upon socio-economic class. You Guardian reading effete cock.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

lol


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 26, 2011)

Mungbeans


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> As an aside, did anyone trawl through that ARRSE thread long enough to see the 'UniteAgainstFacism' (sic) poster antagonise the squaddies? Clearly an EDL twat on the wind up, I mean what sort of mong says "I wouldn't come to East London if I were you, soldiers aren't liked there".



I have sent an EDLer from another forum over to ARSSE to see what the troops think of him but so far I see he has not posted


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

Ok give him his dues, he had the balls to go over and post on there, even if it is only to declare his support and post the mission statement

h**p://www.arrse.co.uk/arrse-hole/139272-my-view-english-defence-league-23.html?139272=#post3594318

let us see how he gets on


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 26, 2011)

That arthur has been bouncing around just about every forum going with his edl stuff.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 26, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That arthur has been bouncing around just about every forum going with his edl stuff.



Yep, he stuck around on Libcom for an age before the two sides got bored.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 26, 2011)

He is holding out quite well on there at the moment, he is doing way better than EDL Leon on the first page of the thread. And he is quite articulate. He has told me in the past that he is in his late sixties, maybe a little old for the EDL but nevertheless....


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 26, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-12290921


----------



## cantsin (Jan 28, 2011)

anyone come accross the  " EDL leader shot by Muslim THugs " farce   -(EDIT - ON UK FORUM, OBVIOUSLY )


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 28, 2011)

It's better than Eastenders i tell you.....


----------



## audiotech (Jan 29, 2011)

50 turn out in Derby.

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/n...hes-Derby/article-3161107-detail/article.html


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 29, 2011)

The mighty EDL in action.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The mighty EDL in action.




From Stoke, that. Ages ago.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 29, 2011)

Sorry only just seen it, this time next week i will no doubt have some new stuff to post


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 29, 2011)

Not your fault, it's a new upload and whoever uploaded it doesn't say where its from.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 29, 2011)

ok, how about this for batshit mental?


----------



## audiotech (Jan 29, 2011)

No one arrested and he's already made his mind up it happened and a Muslim did it?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 30, 2011)

A stark warning for the EDL from the RVF, this puts any minor pissant fallout between C Company and the UDA into perspective.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 30, 2011)

Oh my days


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 30, 2011)

Nazi nazis


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 30, 2011)

Also, SI in 2011?

Also, why _were_ charges dropped for that fence jumping attack?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 30, 2011)

Fingers said:


> That fell over at the first sentence. EDL members do not tend to work, they bludgeon off the welfare state whilst getting drunk and blaming brown people for their own lack of social skills.



Leave it out.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2011)




----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 30, 2011)

Publishers of the koran must love them.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2011)

yeah, an it must like so make extremists like stop doing bombs and stuff when they see someone burn their book and stuff.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 30, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> A stark warning for the EDL from the RVF, this puts any minor pissant fallout between C Company and the UDA into perspective.




How bad is that?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2011)

It's like getting told off by a 12 year old girl.

most of them are ex WDL etc.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 30, 2011)

WDL as in White Defence league?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 30, 2011)

the guys in the top video here are watching the EDL. They are even more fucked. Silly music and text ends at 50secs

http://antifainengland.wordpress.com/

ETA: soz, someone already added this.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 30, 2011)

9 chubsters who are not allowed in the pubs. But they allowed in one posh lads mams garden when she's out.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2011)

yeah Welsh Defence league, thats what i have been told.


also they where all on the ealry demo's etc, but then kicked out for being too racist.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 30, 2011)

LOL Butchers.

Anyway, one of their leaders,  Tony whatshisface I think,  scrabbled his way onto a very good "Face The Facts" on radio 4 the other day (show was about islamophobia in the press). He made a regular tit of himself. The journo (John Waite IIRC) challenged him about the fact that "banning Christmas" stories are invariably bollocks. Within about 20 seconds the tossrag was frothing about "what about if we weren't allowed to say Eid, what about if we werent allowed to say Eid, wait and see the backlash". No self control and scant intellect. No wonder he got so far with that bunch of muppets.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 30, 2011)

That antifa hooligans video is shite as well


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah Welsh Defence league, thats what i have been told.


 
Kruger from the AVF lives about four miles from me.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2011)

yup, that was a good listen, and like many of the stuff the EDL trott out, based on lies and miss information. 

they educate people by youtube videos and links to the dailymail.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Kruger from the AVF lives about four miles from me.


 
Cool, i'm happy for you, are any of them Welsh then? i was told some are ex WDL.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 30, 2011)

Dunno . They have got some Scots so why not?. The rvf have been around for about 8-10 years or so.Hard core Nazis. Some of them were in the NA and BPP and there is an overlap with the much missed wolfshook lot. Wigan Mike liked them.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2011)

> among the people there probably include Wayne Baldwin (3rd from right) and Bryan Powell (tall lanky one far left)
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001712142587



^ have a scan at his pics.


----------



## skitr (Jan 30, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> A stark warning for the EDL from the RVF, this puts any minor pissant fallout between C Company and the UDA into perspective.




That statement they done the week before. 

I have an image of him being like Barry from Eastenders now. Doesn't help he sounds like him too.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah Welsh Defence league, thats what i have been told.
> 
> 
> also they where all on the ealry demo's etc, but then kicked out for being too racist.


 
You're thinking of the Swansea Loyalist lot, was a split between Swansea and Cardiff in the WDL and the Swansea lot got kicked out, purportedly for being nazis but given Marsh is ex-C18 this is bollocks. Was really cos of the football rivalry.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 31, 2011)

Account of the silly episode where they thought John Carroll had been shot

http://www.edlwatch.com/EDL-News/EDL/EDL-and-their-bare-faced-lie.html


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> ^ have a scan at his pics.


 
The sort of person who ought to learn to change his privacy settings, but it would entail learning something.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 31, 2011)

Steven Yaxley Lennon to be on newsnight tomorrow night i hear? 

should be good.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 31, 2011)

EDL and others apparently targeting an Bloody Sunday commemoration event this evening?:
http://socialistresistance.org/1174/far-right-threatens-irish-meeting-in-london

Appealing to UAF for protection doesn't sound very clever.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 31, 2011)

Fucking scum


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 1, 2011)

Newsnight tonight, 10:30 (that's on BBC2 if you are in the EDL) 



> Tuesday 1 February 2011
> 
> Egyptian protesters are holding huge rallies in Cairo and other cities as they step up their efforts to force President Hosni Mubarak from power.
> 
> ...


----------



## audiotech (Feb 1, 2011)

articul8 said:


> EDL and others apparently targeting an Bloody Sunday commemoration event this evening?:
> http://socialistresistance.org/1174/far-right-threatens-irish-meeting-in-london
> 
> Appealing to UAF for protection doesn't sound very clever.



Well, Griffin was forced to retreat, along with his "security team" recently by the UAF.

http://www.demotix.com/news/555996/nick-griffin-forced-retreat-frontline-club-talk


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 1, 2011)

LOL


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 1, 2011)




----------



## Fingers (Feb 1, 2011)

wow! did you see the cocaine sweats when paxo produced that facebook screenshot?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 2, 2011)

I loved the fact he just sat back and let him just spew out all thoughts....


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 2, 2011)

if anyone missed it.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I loved the fact he just sat back and let him just spew out all thoughts....


A more apt figure you could not find.


----------



## pk (Feb 2, 2011)

Well he got his platform. Unchallenged. I don't see that as a "win".

I see a priveliged toff dismissing the concerns of some random working class oik without actually addressing them.

The same sort of spineless shit I see here in fact, with all manner of people usually happy to disregard theories of a religious nature... but to be critical of islam is the same as being racialist, yeah??


----------



## audiotech (Feb 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I loved the fact he just sat back and let him just spew out all thoughts....



Yes, the "I'm simple" was a good un.


----------



## pk (Feb 2, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Yes, the "I'm simple" was a good un.


 
Unless you translate that to mean "I'm not privately educated" in which case Paxman's snobbery is counter-productive to anyone keen to actually look at this with anything approaching an objective point of view. There are a lot of thick chavs out there, and many of them would be more receptive to what the mouthy and defensive EDL golden-boy had to say than anything the swervy posh boy tried to counteract with.

But you can achieve anything with clever editing.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 2, 2011)

Can someone give a synopsis? I'm worried I might get too angry or that my monitor can't take the bad karma.


----------



## YouSir (Feb 2, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Can someone give a synopsis? I'm worried I might get too angry or that my monitor can't take the bad karma.


 
He made a tit of himself, had absolutely no real points to make, was stumped by the suggestion that other people who weren't Muslims might have some involvement in crime, kept talking about the Koran being a barbaric 7th century book, which must've impressed the Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists who all follow even older, and presumably more barbaric, books. Shite basically. Although he'd obviously decided to say 'working class' as many times as he possibly could on the assumption that that some how equates to being as thick as he is. Don't worry, it's easy viewing.

@ PK He didn't make any points worth arguing with, it was all just baseless bigotry, in any argument anywhere he'd have been ignored as a fuck-wit, Paxman's class has nothing to do with it.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 2, 2011)

pk said:


> Well he got his platform. Unchallenged. I don't see that as a "win".
> 
> I see a priveliged toff dismissing the concerns of some random working class oik without actually addressing them.
> 
> The same sort of spineless shit I see here in fact, with all manner of people usually happy to disregard theories of a religious nature... but to be critical of islam is the same as being racialist, yeah??



No, Paxman let him dig his own hole with his mouth. Yer pal came across as barking mad, confused and coked up.

Oh and what "religious theories" are these?


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 2, 2011)

Fingers said:


> wow! did you see the cocaine sweats when paxo produced that facebook screenshot?



Yeah, he was deffo coked up.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 2, 2011)

I think Pazman's face said it all, and then end when he just said, " I believe you " 

The doucmentry before the interview was good as well.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 2, 2011)

pk said:


> Well he got his platform. Unchallenged. I don't see that as a "win".
> 
> I see a priveliged toff dismissing the concerns of some random working class oik without actually addressing them.
> 
> The same sort of spineless shit I see here in fact, with all manner of people usually happy to disregard theories of a religious nature... but to be critical of islam is the same as being racialist, yeah??


 
More chest-beating from Urban's self-appointed hypocrisy hunter.

Physician heal thy self.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 2, 2011)

YouSir said:


> He made a tit of himself, had absolutely no real points to make, was stumped by the suggestion that other people who weren't Muslims might have some involvement in crime, kept talking about the Koran being a barbaric 7th century book, which must've impressed the Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists who all follow even older, and presumably more barbaric, books. Shite basically. Although he'd obviously decided to say 'working class' as many times as he possibly could on the assumption that that some how equates to being as thick as he is. Don't worry, it's easy viewing.
> 
> @ PK He didn't make any points worth arguing with, it was all just baseless bigotry, in any argument anywhere he'd have been ignored as a fuck-wit, Paxman's class has nothing to do with it.


 
Massive s at the Asian EDL member who gets facts about Islam from his researcher in Israel!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 2, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> No, Paxman let him dig his own hole with his mouth. Yer pal came across as barking mad, confused and coked up.
> 
> Oh and what "religious theories" are these?


 
Forum search "sexual jihad" (if you can be arsed to read pages and pages of -worthy _dreck_.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 2, 2011)

pk said:


> Unless you translate that to mean "I'm not privately educated" in which case Paxman's snobbery is counter-productive to anyone keen to actually look at this with anything approaching an objective point of view. There are a lot of thick chavs out there, and many of them would be more receptive to what the mouthy and defensive EDL golden-boy had to say than anything the swervy posh boy tried to counteract with.
> 
> But you can achieve anything with clever editing.


 

Some of the thickest twats I've ever met in my life went to private, fee paying schools.


----------



## YouSir (Feb 2, 2011)

Full un-edited version up later today apparently, will post a link as and when.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 2, 2011)

If he is bigging up the issue of the working class I'm sure he had a lot to say about the impact of the cuts right?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 2, 2011)




----------



## butchersapron (Feb 2, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> If he is bigging up the issue of the working class I'm sure he had a lot to say about the impact of the cuts right?


 
You did it!


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 2, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Massive s at the Asian EDL member who gets facts about Islam from his researcher in Israel!


 
I couldn't believe it when I heard it. What a thick fuck.


----------



## dogDBC (Feb 2, 2011)

This bunch have got to be a put-up job by SB or MI5, surely?  

Tommy Robinson, eh?  (The Winter of '79.  Power in the Darkness.)  

He's changed.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 2, 2011)




----------



## audiotech (Feb 2, 2011)

Yaxley-Lennon: "The police should investigate the Qur'an."

Paxman: "Have you read the Qur'an?"

Yaxley-Lennon: "No."


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 2, 2011)

Who is that bloke? He's shit.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 2, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Who is that bloke? He's shit.



Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, who uses the nom de plume, Tommy Robinson.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 2, 2011)

> In my case I asked “What’s Paki bashing?” to the group of lads who were getting tooled up on the Mile End Road. I was told, “It’s great. You should come. You see a Paki, and all shout , ‘Paki, paki, paki!’ He legs it and you all chase after him and then you catch him up and everyone steams in. And you smash his head, and you kick him in the back and you batter his face and you…



http://danmccurry.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/tommy-robinson-a-psychological-profile/


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 2, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, who uses the nom de plume, Tommy Robinson.


 
No, the prick doing the video.


----------



## discokermit (Feb 2, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> No, the prick doing the video.


 
it's fucking unwatchable.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 2, 2011)

audiotech said:


> http://danmccurry.wordpress.com/2011/02/02/tommy-robinson-a-psychological-profile/


 
It's a shit article.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 2, 2011)

everything is shit


----------



## audiotech (Feb 3, 2011)

Another piece of shite.

BNP protest Edinburgh Zoo pandas

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2011/01/11/bnp-protest-edinburgh-zoo-pandas/


----------



## audiotech (Feb 3, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> No, the prick doing the video.



Are you deaf?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 3, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Are you deaf?


 
No I'm not. You appear to be a bit on the blind side though.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 3, 2011)

The "prick" gives his name at the start of the video.

*reaches for white stick*


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 3, 2011)

Tell me what he says.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 3, 2011)

Richard Coughlan


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2011)

The roumurs on the internet today are: Gurmit Sing attaked by a gang of Muslims armed with guns and baseball bats...... he's fine though as with all these "attacks" nobody ever gets hurt?

they just wanted everyone to know the day before the demo that musilms attacked another EDL leader. 

Oh and don't forget this is a peacful protest yeah!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2011)

http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/c...e-at-shotton-lane-social-club-59067-28113413/

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm....


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/c...e-at-shotton-lane-social-club-59067-28113413/
> 
> Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm....


 
Fucking scum


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2011)

They are the other side of the coin, and they will become more and more like the extremists they claim to oppose. how long before one burns down or blows up a mosque?


----------



## where to (Feb 4, 2011)

Police expecting up to 7000 in Luton tomorrow, 800 are meant to be meeting at Kings Cross according to the EDL, 25 coaches are booked.

2000 police on duty.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/04/edl-rally-european-far-right


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2011)




----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Yaxley-Lennon: "The police should investigate the Qur'an."
> 
> Paxman: "Have you read the Qur'an?"
> 
> Yaxley-Lennon: "No."



"Investigate the Qu'ran". What a fucking nonsense statement.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 4, 2011)

Fuckin' bone head. Needs a good slap


----------



## where to (Feb 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




hardly "PWND".  & that interview won't have done him any harm amongst his target audience.


----------



## treelover (Feb 4, 2011)

Yes, its really interesting how people put their own perceptions/values onto the 'success' or otherwise or nature of an interviewee, Robinson held his own, and for many people his arguments' whatever we think of them will resonate with those he he is speaking to.


----------



## treelover (Feb 4, 2011)

The UAF/Far Left response to the EDL has failed, its very worrying that there doesn't seek to be anything to stall their growth, which I suspect will continue as the recession bites, unemployment rises, etc


----------



## skitr (Feb 4, 2011)

Going tomorrow anti-edl (obviously). In my heart I know i'm not wasting my time, but in my head...


----------



## treelover (Feb 4, 2011)

"The government really needs to find out why young people in particular are turning to the far right for answers," he said. "Whether it is because of the recession and unemployment, social problems within their community or a general disillusionment with politics, we cannot afford to lose people to a group that is so prejudiced against the idea of a multicultural Britain."


It was under Vaz's watch, NL, etc that these conditions arose, youth unemployment is massive, benefits and housing is being slashed, what does he expect, people will look for scapegoats, but there are also some issues which do need tackling..


----------



## audiotech (Feb 4, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> "Investigate the Qu'ran". What a fucking nonce statement.



Corrected for you.


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2011)

treelover said:


> The UAF/Far Left response to the EDL has failed, its very worrying that there doesn't seek to be anything to stall their growth, which I suspect will continue as the recession bites, unemployment rises, etc


 
This. Better come up with something... I don't think the EDL will achieve more than thick footie hooligan status but soon there may be a more significant position.


----------



## treelover (Feb 4, 2011)

It's very revealing that the Guardian gives a direct link to UAF, but for the EDL only a link to its articles about them


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 4, 2011)

when are you ust going to go and join the EDL treefucker?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 4, 2011)

Well, with a bit of luck there'll be heavy rain in Luton tomorrow followed by an almighty lightning bolt, that fries everyone marching for the edl


----------



## emanymton (Feb 4, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> when are you ust going to go and join the EDL treefucker?


 
I doubt they would have him, even they have some standards.


----------



## Casually Red (Feb 4, 2011)

treelover said:


> It's very revealing that the Guardian gives a direct link to UAF, but for the EDL only a link to its articles about them


 
its not very revealing at all . The EDL are a racist hate group whom the Guardian quite rightly dont see themselves as having any business physically promoting . Thats perfectly normal . They preach perverted stuff . One would not expect a Guardian article on child porn websites to actually link to them .

Your strongly hinting this is unfair . If so you should be fucking ashamed of yourself


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 4, 2011)

Ignore treelover, he jumped the shark ages ago. I think a swappie nicked his girlfriend or something.


----------



## Casually Red (Feb 4, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Ignore treelover, he jumped the shark ages ago. I think a swappie nicked his girlfriend or something.


 
in the unlikely event of one of those useless bastards stealing my bird Id probably go a bit doolally too


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 4, 2011)

EDL members claim to already be in Luton & kicking off already. This has been denied by Police.

http://twitpic.com/3wiebl/full

What a bunch of cunts.


----------



## Deareg (Feb 4, 2011)

Isn't treelover female?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 4, 2011)

Dunno, I've seen women turn to putty at the mere mention of Cliff's theory of state capitalism. Throw in a keffiyeh and a few chants of mash the narzis and you'd be fighting them off.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 4, 2011)

EDL members attending the Luton demo being politely asked not to attack their OWN STEWARDS.

http://twitpic.com/3wic98

lol


----------



## Casually Red (Feb 4, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Dunno, I've seen women turn to putty at the mere mention of Cliff's theory of state capitalism. .


 
Thatd turn me to putty alright , and not in a good way


----------



## audiotech (Feb 4, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Dunno, I've seen women turn to putty at the mere mention of Cliff's theory of state capitalism. Throw in a keffiyeh and a few chants of mash the narzis and you'd be fighting them off.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 4, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> EDL members attending the Luton demo being politely asked not to attack their OWN STEWARDS.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/3wic98
> 
> lol



No mysterious, full hooded geezers with shotguns mentioned?


----------



## treelover (Feb 4, 2011)

'when are you ust going to go and join the EDL treefucker? '


ah, the pup is back, I don't support the EDL, but I don't like the Guardians holier than thou attitude and I deeply resent the priorities the far left seems to focus on


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 4, 2011)

And what priorities would those be in your sweeping generalisation of the far left?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2011)

I just hate the EDL, 2 years ago i didnt know what left or right was, i hadnt even switched a PC on


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 4, 2011)

Sniper rifle. Luton. Tomorrow maybe?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

As wrong as it is to think, part of me thinks i would piss myslef if they was suicide bombed...... but there you go.


----------



## treelover (Feb 5, 2011)

economic ones, people at the bottom, etc, you know good old socialist priorities...


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

^ no idea what this means, im just a simple man.


----------



## Casually Red (Feb 5, 2011)

The only people who'll blow these cunts up is themselves when trying to blow someone else up . Unless Tony Lecomber ever takes the hump with them .


----------



## OneStrike (Feb 5, 2011)

Any predictions or expectations for tomorrow?  I seem to now be banned from the edl forums so am in the dark somewhat, apart from some midlands cities having a load travelling down. I am hoping for bad weather and an anti-climax in general, still fearful though.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

with the shit they have been fed this week, i think it will kick off bigstyle.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

I for one hope the knuckle dragging fascist bone heads have the living shit kicked out of them - but their police protection would never allow that to happen.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Cameron's on the edl tip - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ce-our-British-values-David-Cameron-says.html


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 5, 2011)

david cameron said:
			
		

> everyone, from ministers to ordinary voters, should actively confront those who hold extremist views.


looks like DC is gonna join the UAF tomorrow!


----------



## cantsin (Feb 5, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> Any predictions or expectations for tomorrow?  I seem to now be banned from the edl forums so am in the dark somewhat, apart from some midlands cities having a load travelling down. I am hoping for bad weather and an anti-climax in general, still fearful though.


 
as a sample of the wider picture, seems deffo lots of thfc / afc hooli's going, but also trying to keep the ' respectable ' angle in tact (on paper ) . 

scenario a : The older EDL  lot know only too well that a mass-beered up off with the OB ( the usual ) isn't going to acheive anything ( and isn't even much of buzz ) , and  like the idea of frothing UAF / Muzzies going mad  while they do the respectable anti extrmist/bomber / oppressor of women / gays thing, 

scenario b : 10 000 + beered up football boys, with a pretty much unprecedented 'up for it' ratio, overwhelm OB, try to pogrom the local asian populace like they started to last time, before going toe to toe with anyone thats up for it .


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I for one hope the knuckle dragging fascist bone heads have the living shit kicked out of them - but their police protection would never allow that to happen.


 
I've as much disdain for the police as many in this parish, but for the record i reckon there have been quite a few instances where the police stopped the fascist scum from kicking other people's heads in. the Anti EDL numbers are often lower and less composed of violence inclined neanderthals.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 5, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> looks like DC is gonna join the UAF tomorrow!



He's busy making war on multiculturalism that day.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'when are you ust going to go and join the EDL treefucker? '
> 
> 
> ah, the pup is back, I don't support the EDL, but I don't like the Guardians holier than thou attitude and I deeply resent the priorities the far left seems to focus on



You're a broken record that speaks in riddles. Would you like to tell us what you _really_ mean?



> I deeply resent the priorities the far left seems to focus on


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

http://www2.lutontoday.co.uk/edlliveblog/


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 5, 2011)

The EDL have welcomed european nazis to Luton!

http://twitpic.com/3wpehc


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 5, 2011)

I wonder what treelover has to say about that?


----------



## treelover (Feb 5, 2011)

twat, you think I support Blood and Honour, etc, grow up...


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> twat, you think I support Blood and Honour, etc, grow up...



You're paranoid. I never suggested anything of the sort. Please post some evidence to support your assertion or STFU.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 5, 2011)

> I deeply resent the priorities the far left seems to focus on



I'd like you to explain this, treelover. If you would be so kind.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Sunderland edl group are pissed, others throwing bottles at the police. Scottish Defence League are taunting English counterparts.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

Today will end badly.....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

EDL scuffles with own stewards on Midland Road. Bottles starting to be thrown again.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Sunderland edl group are pissed, others throwing bottles at the police. Scottish Defence League are taunting English counterparts.


 
English EDL singing Hitler has only got one ball at German EDL. Dutch EDL nicked for selling drugs. French EDL have surrendered to the Muslim EDL. Danish EDL chucking Lego bricks at plod. Chaos ensues.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

You can't make this shit up!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

EDL demo is 95% men but they're putting the women at the front. PR tactics.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Uaf kettled near to bury park.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> EDL demo is 95% men but they're putting the women at the front. PR tactics.



Have they managed to find any Blacks, Jews or Asians to join them?


----------



## LoveMeDont (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> EDL demo is 95% men but they're putting the women at the front. PR tactics.


 
They've missed a trick there - they should have stuck a few of them in wheelchairs if they really wanted to generate some sympathetic media coverage.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/3wq4qy


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

A few UAF kettled - http://twitpic.com/3wqd2r


----------



## treelover (Feb 5, 2011)

'On the other side there will be a big mobilisation from Anjem Choudary’s Al-Muhajiroun extremists. Luton is their base and there seems little chance that they will miss the chance to perform in front of the world’s media. He had a hundred out on a protest outside the Egyptian embassy yesterday so we can only expect many more today. Obviously they will be heavily outnumbered by the EDL but it could take only a handful of waving inflammatory signs to incite a violent reaction from the right-wing hooligans. '


apparently Choudary is out and about as well


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 5, 2011)

I've been told this morning that the UAF coach from Manchester was attacked by EDL, I don"t know further details yet. These knobheads are getting pretty fucking cocky.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Crowd of UAF moving along Stuart Street are being tightly controlled by police.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Luton: police give the go-ahead for EDL march to begin. Last few buses, according to police. @SkyNewsHack


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

UAF moving along Stuart Street towards Market Hill


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Counterfire: Over 1,000 muslims and anti-fascists assembled in Bury Park.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 5, 2011)

I've had that claim unconfirmed btw. No Manchester coach attack.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 5, 2011)

Someone has unconfirmed my earlier claim. No EDL coach attack.


----------



## treelover (Feb 5, 2011)

matthew taylor on twitter

Luton is biggest turnout for #edl demo I have seen [and unfortunately I've seen a few]


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Police saying about 1500 EDL here, much less than the 5000 they expected!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Police saying about 1500 EDL here, much less than the 5000 they expected!


 
Police always underestimate. Just had a text off a mate who goes to pretty much every demo, he says it's their biggest turnout by far. 'Easily 5000' is what he said.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

I did wonder.


----------



## emanymton (Feb 5, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> Someone has unconfirmed my earlier claim. No EDL coach attack.


 
Not an attack but a 'face off' at Birmingham services involving the manchester coach and 2 coaches of EDL.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

EDL Luton Sky are claiming that there are 3-4,000 on the demo. It looks closer to 3,000 to me. @hopenothate


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

They're showing choppercam footage of Luton on BBC 'News' 24. I'd have a good guess & say about 1500.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Stephen Lennon, apologises for public cost of protest, & has asked protestors to applaud police.


----------



## treelover (Feb 5, 2011)

'Best organised and biggest #edl demo I've seen in luton today. Feels like a movement on the rise'

Matthew Taylor tweet, seems to be some wishful thinking on here, take it more seriously and why it is happening


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 5, 2011)

Do you ever stop fucking whinging?


----------



## xes (Feb 5, 2011)

I feel slightly dirty as this is going on just a few miles away. Some of them would have driven through my town to get to Luton, and will probably be drinking in the pubs later 

nazi scum, off my streets


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/3wqs7h


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Yep, about 1,5000

http://twitpic.com/3wqvko/full


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Counterfire: Anti-fascists pushing police and horses back.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Yep, about 1,5000
> 
> http://twitpic.com/3wqvko/full


 
added a 0 there mate... lol


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

http://mypict.me/show.php?id=hqc7u


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 5, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Do you ever stop fucking whinging?



Never. He's the resident whingebag.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

2:41 Beds Police say no arrests at protests so far, one person injured. 
2:42 Beds Police say no coaches have been turned away.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...otesters-clash-with-EDL-at-Luton-station.html

Has his hat knocked off his bonce & fucks off lol


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

No Surender !! well maybe... lol


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Comedy gold when someone kicks it back


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...otesters-clash-with-EDL-at-Luton-station.html
> 
> Has his hat knocked off his bonce & fucks off lol


 Looking like a knob,the EDL seem to be the same shower of holies who were chanting "no surrender to the IRA" a few years ago,same old faces different slogans


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

I think that's it.... there all heading home..... LOL


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I think that's it.... there all heading home..... LOL


 
Seriously?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

Nope!

Counterfire: EDL have left their demo, chaos in Luton, EDL running riot according to Police. Mosque in Bury Park attacked.

@banthe EDL - unconfirmed


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

@hopenothate: Rumours flying around. 1. Koran burnt on Farley Hill estate 2. a mosque attacked in Bury Park. Neither are true.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

EDL are currently whinging on facebook that Sky News doesn't think their protest is as important as the ones in Cairo!


----------



## mancboy (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> EDL are currently whinging on facebook that Sky News doesn't think their protest is as important as the ones in Cairo!


 
It'd be all over the news if the EDL had turned up on camels. They really missed a trick there.


----------



## xes (Feb 5, 2011)

that makes me feel a little better


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

number of EDL facebook fans who showed up? 2.3%
police cost per EDL member today = £470


----------



## PlaidDragon (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...otesters-clash-with-EDL-at-Luton-station.html
> 
> Has his hat knocked off his bonce & fucks off lol


 
Class! The cunt proper bottled that!


----------



## Steel Icarus (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...otesters-clash-with-EDL-at-Luton-station.html
> 
> Has his hat knocked off his bonce & fucks off lol



Tries to make amends by shouting "I'm the pride of Britain" at the end. Lol.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

Radio reports last of EDL members boarding trains, praising Beds Police for their handling of the demo.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 5, 2011)

well it did not turn out to be he big one that they were going to tell their grandchildren about. in fact the official police numbers were about 1,500.

English Defence League - Protecting England if it is not cold and raining.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 5, 2011)

Those pics above are about 700-800 i'd guess. Sounds like more people turned out for the Reamonn Gormley walk.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

EDL say 6k showed up LOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

> Bedfordshire Police In realtion to today's protests there have so far been seven arrests, mostly for possession of offensive weapons and assault.



No news on if they where EDL or UAF.


----------



## emanymton (Feb 5, 2011)

Which likely means they where EDL.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 5, 2011)

1500?  No chance. Look at that ariel shot.

[video]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-12372713[/video]


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

800 or 1500, it matters not. Definitely not 6-7000 that the bone heads were hyping up!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

One of England's finest!






Nuff said


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)




----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> One of England's finest!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Get 'em out for the..er, lads...yeah.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



"Stampled"? What's "stampled"? Is it a cross between being stamped on and trampled?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)

At least there wasn't heavy gun fire raining down on them from the roof tops, eh?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

well not yet, but maybe later when they post about it.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 5, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

"I was like chased by 100 muzzies with guns and sticks, but i got away and stuff NS "


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/gallery/2011/feb/05/english-defence-league-protest?CMP=twt_gu


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 5, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> "Stampled"? What's "stampled"? Is it a cross between being stamped on and trampled?


 
I think it sounds quite cute.

Judging from those arial shots there were about a 1000 at most, and both sides look evenly matched. If the EDL are going to keep up the SWP style always growing, big victory just round the corner rhetoric they're going to end up with a lot of disapointed burnt out activists. Hopefully.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2011)

http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/onlinenews/2011/february/050211_protest_update.html




> Eight people have been arrested during the day:
> 
> One in the early hours of this morning – charged with possession of offensive weapon
> One person was arrested for Failing to Appear at court and then further arrested for racially aggravated Public Order Offence sec 5 (abusive language) after an altercation with the arresting officers
> ...


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> One of England's finest!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
No wonder they reckon there's no room left in England with fat cunts like that taking up half the countryside.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 5, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> I've been told this morning that the UAF coach from Manchester was attacked by EDL, I don"t know further details yet. These knobheads are getting pretty fucking cocky.


 
Is this the first time you have been given wrong info?


----------



## emanymton (Feb 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/gallery/2011/feb/05/english-defence-league-protest?CMP=twt_gu


 
I like the placard in pic 8 as at first glance seems to say the EDL are Traitorous scum.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 5, 2011)

Mid to late last year I was predicting 2 possible directions for the EDL: Stagnation or branching out into more overtly fascist activity. An attempt has been made to bring about the latter with some small "success", attacking anti fash meetings etc. but not really getting anywhere. 

At 1st appearance this Luton gig looks distinctly average, especially as it was so hyped up. Hopefully the stagnation prediction has come true. They are going nowhere partly because their ideology is going nowhere but also because counter demos guarantee the scum can't march properly and get bigger thrills.

Any activist of any stripe knows that the appeal of standing around listening to a single transferable speech and singing naff songs wears off pretty quickly. These set piece demos are clearly going nowhere now. Congrats and thanks to all who have kept the lid on it, and continue to.


----------



## Sean (Feb 5, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> No wonder they reckon there's no room left in England with fat cunts like that taking up half the countryside.


 
Aren't the fash usually the ones who claim they can't tell the difference between leftie/anarchist men and women? In this case I'm stumped. But either way: hubba hubba


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 5, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> One of England's finest!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Someone who's looks would improve with the addition of a burkha


----------



## veltins (Feb 6, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Mid to late last year I was predicting 2 possible directions for the EDL: Stagnation or branching out into more overtly fascist activity. An attempt has been made to bring about the latter with some small "success", attacking anti fash meetings etc. but not really getting anywhere.
> 
> At 1st appearance this Luton gig looks distinctly average, especially as it was so hyped up. Hopefully the stagnation prediction has come true. They are going nowhere partly because their ideology is going nowhere but also because counter demos guarantee the scum can't march properly and get bigger thrills.
> 
> Any activist of any stripe knows that the appeal of standing around listening to a single transferable speech and singing naff songs wears off pretty quickly. These set piece demos are clearly going nowhere now. Congrats and thanks to all who have kept the lid on it, and continue to.


 
such far sighted inspirational analysis ...................Did u help run the economy under labour as well?


----------



## veltins (Feb 6, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> EDL Luton Sky are claiming that there are 3-4,000 on the demo. It looks closer to 3,000 to me. @hopenothate[/QUOTE
> 
> u could start a count from here............... 1,2,3,7,5,11,6


----------



## xes (Feb 6, 2011)

bunchacunts


----------



## creak (Feb 6, 2011)

Veltins is urban's resident EDL fuckwit, isn't he?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2011)

English Defence League (EDL)
The English defence league are proud to announce that the next demonstration will be held in the city of Birmingham on 19th march 2011.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 6, 2011)

This was meant to be a "homecomming" thing in Luton wasn't it? Hard to know the exact numbers but It doesnt sound to me like it got much over 2 to 2,500 for the fash. With all the publicity and hype I would make that out as a profound disappointment. I wonder if there will be rumblings among those capable of making their opinions count. A couple more like this and we will be able to say that they have past the peak of influence, at least in the medium term. Yesterdays rally got no mention in bulletins I heard - a reasonable measure of media impact, or lack of it. Many thanks to to all the antis who continue to make it nigh on impossible for the dupes and fascists to march.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> English Defence League (EDL)
> The English defence league are proud to announce that the next demonstration will be held in the city of Birmingham on 19th march 2011.



 I don't thing they will be run out of town next month. Hopefully they are kept out of the city centre. Will be interesting to see what numbers the local paedo division of the EDL will get to the demo after the pricey incident.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 6, 2011)

veltins said:


> such far sighted inspirational analysis ...................Did u help run the economy under labour as well?



Were banking directors members of the labour party? Who knew?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150099358164533&set=o.145019135549768


----------



## emanymton (Feb 6, 2011)

Friend of mine who was there said 2-3000 EDL with 1500-2000 UAF in the city centre with another 3000 (mostly local) people at Bury Park


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 6, 2011)

People in general are not good at judging numbers in a crowd. They make wild self satisfying guesses. If you look at the footage of the EDL demo as it comes down the street or from the aerial view, they are approximately 1000.

If you go to football or music clubs and know something about capacities of venues/Grandstands etc, you'll be better prepared to make a judgement on numbers.

The UAF somewhat thinner on the ground and the locals a couple of hundred. All in all not impressive, except the Telegraph video from the station where they dish the bigguns hat for him.

It's all there on youtube.

The facebook colour head job says it all. Nice work.

See the link 2 posts previous...

It shows about half the length of their march. Nuff said.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 7, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I don't thing they will be run out of town next month. Hopefully they are kept out of the city centre. Will be interesting to see what numbers the local paedo division of the EDL will get to the demo after the pricey incident.




lol long live pricey!  looks like the student/commie/uaf combo have hacked their message boards

h**p://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/4108994/1/

replace the * with t as always....


----------



## treelover (Feb 7, 2011)

he or she is a fantasist,, no way was there 2000 UAF


----------



## Fingers (Feb 7, 2011)

oh dear, all the admin accounts have been wiped out and the colour scheme has been made a bit 'gay'


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 7, 2011)

tbf it wasn't so much 'wrong' as elaborated. and my sources are usually right.

ed: @ 39thstep


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 7, 2011)

Some good stuff at this Facebook page.


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...At-The-English-Defence-League/145019135549768


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 7, 2011)

treelover said:


> he or she is a fantasist,, no way was there 2000 UAF


 
I'm sure of you add all the Anti EDL, UAF, MDL and everyday people of the town, there was more than the 1500 EDL for the Big one


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2011)

"We're all EDL"?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 7, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Mid to late last year I was predicting 2 possible directions for the EDL: Stagnation or branching out into more overtly fascist activity. An attempt has been made to bring about the latter with some small "success", attacking anti fash meetings etc. but not really getting anywhere.
> 
> At 1st appearance this Luton gig looks distinctly average, especially as it was so hyped up. Hopefully the stagnation prediction has come true. They are going nowhere partly because their ideology is going nowhere but also because counter demos guarantee the scum can't march properly and get bigger thrills.
> 
> Any activist of any stripe knows that the appeal of standing around listening to a single transferable speech and singing naff songs wears off pretty quickly. These set piece demos are clearly going nowhere now. Congrats and thanks to all who have kept the lid on it, and continue to.


 
They are 'going nowhere' because with very few exceptions they haven't built locally and developed politically. Seeing as they cannot march due to Police and Council bans rather than counter demos  they are stuck with static demonstrations which the Police contain. Its not the counter demos that wear them down its the Policing.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 7, 2011)

Yes, they have nowhere to go as the edl - the danger is that a large number of individuals will pass into the BNP and from there actually be part of a group that is trying to lay down those local roots the edl cannot and so shift public political  debate onto a de facto cultural/racial setting for just about everyone. The real danger has never been the edl.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 7, 2011)

Agree with Butchersapron.
The EDL has shown that  there is a clear constituency of right wing street activists ready to be mobilised to a degree that the hard left currently struggles to match.


----------



## john x (Feb 7, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> People in general are not good at judging numbers in a crowd. They make wild self satisfying guesses. If you look at the footage of the EDL demo as it comes down the street or from the aerial view, they are approximately 1000.



Interesting point!

Having done a number of sold-out shows at Brixton Academy, I'd say that that crowd, when put shoulder to shoulder, would fill approximately half of the downstairs standing area. That would make it roughly somewhere around 1800 people.

So police estimate of 1500 not too far out allowing for the usual under-estimate.

john x


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 7, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, they have nowhere to go as the edl - the danger is that a large number of individuals will pass into the BNP and from there actually be part of a group that is trying to lay down those local roots the edl cannot and so shift public political  debate onto a de facto cultural/racial setting for just about everyone. The real danger has never been the edl.


 
Searchlight now flying the kite for the English Democrats Party.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 7, 2011)

Flying the kite for the EDP? In fact it's one of a 'series of articles on right-wing alternatives to the BNP'.

According to Searchlight, there's "outrage" and "disgust" within the EDP that some in the EDP are 'courting BNP members' and there has been a call for an EGM over this and proposal of a vote vote of no confidence in two of its national council members.



> Whether the party can emerge stronger will be determined partly by what happens to the BNP but also by its own members' reactions to the arrival of former BNP members in their ranks.



"Next month UKIP".


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 7, 2011)




----------



## The39thStep (Feb 7, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Flying the kite for the EDP? In fact it's one of a 'series of articles on right-wing alternatives to the BNP'.
> 
> According to Searchlight, there's "outrage" and "disgust" within the EDP that some in the EDP are 'courting BNP members' and there has been a call for an EGM over this and proposal of a vote vote of no confidence in two of its national council members.
> 
> ...


 
You have a lot to learn about Searchlight


----------



## audiotech (Feb 7, 2011)

Not this ^ bollocks again! I've been reading _Searchlight_ and all that surrounds it for the last thirty years.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 8, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Not this ^ bollocks again! I've been reading _Searchlight_ and all that surrounds it for the last thirty years.



So have I. Know some of the writers as well.

Do you remember Forwarned which printed NF members names and adresses?


----------



## where to (Feb 8, 2011)

george galloways vs tommy robinson.


lol.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 8, 2011)

where to said:


> george galloways vs tommy robinson.
> 
> 
> lol.



tx. Normally wouldnt listen to him, but GG is all over him from the off.


----------



## veltins (Feb 8, 2011)

as there seems to be some very good 'crowd counters' on here, heres a pic of the UAF demo at luton to get your toes out to.

dont tell me MI5 put that poster there !! 
http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/dropbox247/BATH.jpg


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2011)

UAF = The police?


----------



## 01rorlin (Feb 8, 2011)

That isn't the UAF demo, that's a breakaway to get to Bury Park before most people turned up at the main demo. That's pretty much just London and Manchester if iirc.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2011)

So the next Demo is only 6 weeks after the last one, i'm sure most people would be pushed to do another one so close? and with the numbers so low on the last one, however much they push the 6k number the people that where there must know it was a joke with such low numbers. 

would be amazed if they got over 1500-2000 for the next one. 

Also been reading about lots of in fighting and rivalry between divisons which kicked off with fights on Saturday.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 8, 2011)

where to said:


> george galloways vs tommy robinson.
> 
> 
> lol.


 
"Shalam" George.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2011)

http://www.flintshirechronicle.co.u...1893/?sms_ss=twitter&at_xt=4d5133fb442c5fbd,0


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2011)

where to said:


> george galloways vs tommy robinson.
> 
> 
> lol.


 
Awesome, never seen that before...


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Also been reading about lots of in fighting and rivalry between divisons which kicked off with fights on Saturday.



The boredom of the kettle, no opposition to kick off with...inevitable really, I wouldn't read too much into the reports.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 8, 2011)

The EDL didn't face a kettle, only a plod escort from the start point to the square for speeches. Apparently the Sunderland Div were pissed as farts - it's all in this thread from Saturday.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 8, 2011)

Bolton division twatted a woman in the face and nicked a lads mobile phone according to the EDL on facebook.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 8, 2011)

Yep, nice bunch.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2011)

yeah, now they are planning massive fights for the next one... lol

i also read someone stole a collections bucket that was going around.... doh !


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 8, 2011)

They're only youtube holies anyway.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2011)

Offering people out over facebook = Fail


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 8, 2011)

Uncritical report on them in the Daily Star today.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 8, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Uncritical report on them in the Daily Star today.


 
That's not even uncritical - that's pretty supportive. Although their numbers are shit, their media op has stepped up a bit. The Star have run other semi sympathetic stuff. FWIW, the star and express have pulled out of being subject to Press Complaints Commission because they're so committed to the agenda of  fictionalising right wing bullshit. It is an indication of the type of appeal the EDL has - barely literate and easily fooled.

That twat Robinson has been all over the media this last week. He's crap at it, but if they put another mug up there that could put a coherent sentence together it could spell a bit of trouble.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2011)

http://www.unitedshades.org.uk/edl-in-luton.aspx


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 8, 2011)

Brits dont need the EDL, not yet anyway. Still the publicity from the Star and the linkage with the boys is good for keeping them on the go. Martin needs to get our lot cranked up, hes got the clobber but needs to get the troops pumped up.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2011)

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/175956/EDL-TO-BECOME-POLITICAL-PARTY/  I'm sorry but lololololoolplololllolo1111111!!!!!


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 9, 2011)

Fuck me,the UH AH Daily Star are really sailing close to the wind there


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 9, 2011)

> In the Daily Star phone poll yesterday, 98% of readers said they agreed with the EDL’s policies.



Policies?


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/175956/EDL-TO-BECOME-POLITICAL-PARTY/  I'm sorry but lololololoolplololllolo1111111!!!!!


 
Fuck's sake lol


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2011)

Are the daily star being paid to the EDL to do favourable polls for them or something?  Seeing as they keep going on about it?


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 9, 2011)

Daily Star makes the Sun look like Le Monde,along with the Express surely the worst tabloid in the country,no surprises to find they're owned by smut merchant Dirty Dick Desmond.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2011)

Most of the people on the edl facebook fan site seem to be people who've joined to argue with them.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 9, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Are the daily star being paid to the EDL to do favourable polls for them or something?  Seeing as they keep going on about it?


 
It's just the monied promoting an alternative protest movement to anti-cuts imo. Same reason the rich always support the far right innit.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2011)

Yeah. I'd have guessed a lot of daily star readers would see through that shit tho, the people i know who bring that paper into my work buy it for sports/showbiz gossip and a bit of a laugh, not because they believe anything in it (and who replies to those polls ayway that apparently mean that the EDL's "policies" have 98% support? One man and his dog?) A lot of the people who the edl probably thought they could recruit, or possibly have already recruited, are going to realise that far-right explanations for "what's wrong" have fuck all to do with reality.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 9, 2011)

Front page of today's Daily Star, anything that shoves Jordan off must be important to them.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/175956/EDL-TO-GO-POLITICAL/

ETA: How long before the Star comes clean with "hurrah for the blackshirts" type headlines.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> Daily Star makes the Sun look like Le Monde,along with the Express surely the worst tabloid in the country,no surprises to find they're owned by smut merchant Dirty Dick Desmond.


 
I wonder why Jewish Dicky Desmond is supporting the EDL. He must enjoy playing with fire.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 9, 2011)

Team p0ison have hacked their website AGAIN lol

http://englishdefenceleague.org


----------



## Fingers (Feb 9, 2011)

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/02/473676.html?c=on#comments


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 9, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Team p0ison have hacked their website AGAIN lol
> 
> http://englishdefenceleague.org


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 9, 2011)

Doulgas 'Skidmark' Murray defends the EDL. As you'd expect, the analysis is twisted. How can anyone take this cunt seriously?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> I wonder why Jewish Dicky Desmond is supporting the EDL. He must enjoy playing with fire.



Well they're pro Israel for starters.


----------



## revlon (Feb 9, 2011)

ooh ahh daily star

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/175956/EDL-TO-GO-POLITICAL/

edl leader leader threatens to think about talking to other political parties - most noticably the tories to up their game

Forgot to say front page headline act


----------



## IMR (Feb 9, 2011)

Desmond probably doesn't like Muslims very much but that's not the reason for the Daily Star carrying an EDL front page story.

It's because the Star's editor Dawn Neesom has a fair idea of what the Star's predominantly young, male, working-class readership will find interesting to read.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 9, 2011)

they seem to have swapped Jordan's tits for a whole crowd of tits....


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2011)

They want Tommy to go on question time next.... LOL 

"sharia law, sharia law, sharia law, sharia law, 7th Century barbaric form, sharia law, sharia law, sharia law"


----------



## mr steev (Feb 9, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Policies?


 


> He said the organisation’s main aim was to outlaw the Koran then adapt it to fit in with British society.
> He said the only way to do this would be to force Muslims to realise the words of their holy scriptures are outdated.



So adapt something that they've outlawed and 'force' 1.5 million people to change their view by chanting 'who the fuck is allah'


----------



## audiotech (Feb 9, 2011)

Doulgas 'Skidmark' Murray should have a word with Eric Pickles, who has made his views pretty clear about cuts to local services, dismissing any debate and discussion whatsoever on the issues. This, affecting 'whole swathes of people'. Done on "his terms" eh Doulgas?


----------



## Dillinger4 (Feb 9, 2011)

Douglas Murray is a fucking cunt


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 9, 2011)

Dillinger4 said:


> Douglas Murray is a fucking cunt



Innit? He doesn't write blogs for Torygraph anymore. I guess it's because he didn't like having his blogs pulled apart by me and many others. He claims to want 'dialogue' but his idea of dialogue is one-way traffic.


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 9, 2011)

mr steev said:


> So adapt something that they've outlawed and 'force' 1.5 million people to change their view by chanting 'who the fuck is allah'


 The whole thing reeks of


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 9, 2011)

IMR said:


> Desmond probably doesn't like Muslims very much but that's not the reason for the Daily Star carrying an EDL front page story.
> 
> It's because the Star's editor Dawn Neesom has a fair idea of what the Star's predominantly young, male, working-class readership will find interesting to read.


 Yeah  they know Islam isn't too popular among certain sections of society and are trying to capatalise on that dislike,playing with fire though,hope they get badly burnt in the process


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2011)

http://www.viceland.com/wp/2011/02/its-nazi-party-time/


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2011)

English Defence League (EDL) The English Defence League has decided to postpone the Birmingham demonstration due to certain football fixutes clashing on the same dates, we will be giving a new date for it soon and will issue a new demonstration for March 19th after discussions by the leadership. (E)


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 9, 2011)

The EDL have postponed their Birmingham demo. Football is more important! 

http://twitpic.com/3y2kk2


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2011)

O Rly ?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 9, 2011)




----------



## IC3D (Feb 9, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2011)

ADL - American Defence League ---- Super pissed as already booked flights and paid for Hotel for the next Demo


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 9, 2011)

Another plug for this, frequent updates and mockery of the losers.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!...At-The-English-Defence-League/145019135549768


----------



## xes (Feb 9, 2011)

IC3D said:


>


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 9, 2011)




----------



## embree (Feb 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They want Tommy to go on question time next.... LOL
> 
> "sharia law, sharia law, sharia law, sharia law, 7th Century barbaric form, sharia law, sharia law, sharia law"


 
he could at least learn how to pronounce 'sharia' correctly


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 9, 2011)

"He said the organisation’s main aim was to outlaw the Koran then adapt it to fit in with British society.
He said the only way to do this would be to force Muslims to realise the words of their holy scriptures are outdated"
Aye,good luck with that Tommy


----------



## embree (Feb 9, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> "He said the organisation’s main aim was to outlaw the Koran then adapt it to fit in with British society.
> He said the only way to do this would be to force Muslims to realise the words of their holy scriptures are outdated"
> Aye,good luck with that Tommy


 
this is ambitious stuff, he's a blue sky thinker for sure


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 9, 2011)

Didn't somebody twat him in the face in Luton?


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 9, 2011)

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/147117/EDL-extremists-take-kids-on-London-anti-Muslim-demo/
The Uh Ah DS certainly seems to have changed their tune regarding the Edl in the last few months


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 10, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/147117/EDL-extremists-take-kids-on-London-anti-Muslim-demo/
> The Uh Ah DS certainly seems to have changed their tune regarding the Edl in the last few months



 indeed. I remember stuff like that, mentioning they were far right and "extreme", but still giving them more coverage than most other papers. I was thinking to my conspiranoid self: is this testing the water or "no such thing as bad publicity"?

A change of tune need not be accidental or inconsistent, but part of a calculated, or semi calculated progression.


----------



## albionism (Feb 10, 2011)

embree said:


> he could at least learn how to pronounce 'sharia' correctly


 
and Imam...It's not difficult.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2011)

> He said the organisation’s main aim was to outlaw the Koran then adapt it to fit in with British society. He said the only way to do this would be to force Muslims to realise the words of their holy scriptures are outdated.



Bone-headed bigotry isn't the height of modern, either.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 10, 2011)

If anyone can be arsed to "debate" these dregs of our culture I'd like to know the means by which outlawing the Koran will be instigated. For example, is everyone owning a copy to be arrested, or will they limit it to buying and selling? What if the police dont want to arrest someone one for owning a book?

If the muppets want to attempt to be taken seriously and honestly they must answer serious and honest questions about their stated aims. 

This "policy" alone would probably require more authoritarianism than even the BNP would openly admit to.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2011)

They'd have to impose an internet blackout too like those dastardly commies do.


----------



## revlon (Feb 10, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> If anyone can be arsed to "debate" these dregs of our culture I'd like to know the means by which outlawing the Koran will be instigated. For example, is everyone owning a copy to be arrested, or will they limit it to buying and selling? What if the police dont want to arrest someone one for owning a book?
> 
> If the muppets want to attempt to be taken seriously and honestly they must answer serious and honest questions about their stated aims.
> 
> This "policy" alone would probably require more authoritarianism than even the BNP would openly admit to.


 
not wanting to come to their defence but surely it would be outlawing the implementation of the teachings in the koran. 

I know it's easy to kinda pick holes but when the anarchists have 'nutty' chris knight as their main headline grabber, tommy robinson doesn't come across that badly. 

Downplaying the social significance of opposition seems to be the left's achilles heel.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 10, 2011)

It (_ban the koran_) is primarily an attention getting exericise, it's copying Wilders - it's the same stuff that leads nick griffin to say the Italians should sink boats with illegal immigrants on them. Neither of them expect it to happen. They do both know though that expressing often widespread social prejudices in an aggressive or extrem way works to get focus attention on your little racket and for very little expenditure of effort.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It (_ban the koran_) is primarily an attention getting exericise, it's copying Wilders - it's the same stuff that leads nick griffin to say the Italians should sink boats with illegal immigrants on them. Neither of them expect it to happen. They do both know though that expressing often widespread social prejudices in an aggressive or extrem way works to get focus attention on your little racket and for very little expenditure of effort.



That's all true, but they should still answer the questions if they think they should be taken seriously. If it's just vapid posturing for effect then every time Robinson/Lennon and his ilk get in the spotlight it is the journos professional responsibility to challenge them on it


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 10, 2011)

Turns out Robinson / Lennon has been on LBC this morning. Don't know how it went, but I'm seriously wondering how they are getting all this coverage. Do they have a new media person with mega contacts?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

From what i read he got a ruff time, will post up a link if i find one...


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

it's funny as fuck


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> From what i read he got a ruff time, will post up a link if i find one...



Getting a rough time doesn't cut it though. LBC shouldn't be giving them the exposure.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

He's was on BBC Wales yesterday  been on somthing almost everday the past week or so.... 

The had few people calling in talking about no go Muslim areas in Cardiff?  where they feel the will get cut up if the go down there alone?!?!? 

Fucking idiots...


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> He's was on BBC Wales yesterday  been on somthing almost everday the past week or so....
> 
> The had few people calling in talking about no go Muslim areas in Cardiff?  where they feel the will get cut up if the go down there alone?!?!?
> 
> Fucking idiots...


 
Some people probably do "feel" that, because their head has been filled with biggoted shit by the likes of The Daily Star.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 10, 2011)

Here's today's puffpiece in the daily star.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/176113/EDL-boss-Tommy-Robinson-says-he-has-24-hour-guard-/

The rag itself carries a massive headline along the lines of WE WILL BEHEAD YOUR FAMILY.

This is probably true in the same way as last weeks assasination was true, or that the Luton turnout was gargantuan. Btw, the Star and Express have removed themselves from the auspices of the Press Complaints Commission (toothless as it generally is). They must want to be at even more liberty to lie and stir up hatred. Who  can stop these scum?


----------



## revlon (Feb 10, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Here's today's puffpiece in the daily star.
> 
> http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/176113/EDL-boss-Tommy-Robinson-says-he-has-24-hour-guard-/
> 
> ...


 
two explicit quotes from robinson about working class people being let down by the three main parties


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

Demo in East London this Sat - Oppose the Dagenham Mosque & Islamic Center - 798 Green Lane


----------



## IMR (Feb 10, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> They must want to be at even more liberty to lie and stir up hatred. Who  can stop these scum?



Editor Dawn Neesom is taking the lead in this, Desmond will look on and judge it in terms of sales alone. In recent years the Daily Star was showing increasing sales under her editorship, just about the only national newspaper to do so, but since last year they've dropped by 8% (iirc). So Neesom is under pressure to prove she's still got the magic touch.

Wonder if the Star will push it so far that newsagents get fed up and organise a boycott. I assume a fair proportion of outlets where the Star is sold are run by Asian shopkeepers, many of whom must be Muslim.

But would that be a wise tactic or not?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

^ I did think about that the other day, they don't make much on papers so it's something that could happen.


----------



## john x (Feb 10, 2011)

IMR said:


> I assume a fair proportion of outlets where the Star is sold are run by Asian shopkeepers, many of whom must be Muslim.



It has nothing to do with the shopkeepers. They are just there to make a profit. 

As the Sun boycott in Liverpool after Hillsborough showed, it is the customers who drive this kind of boycott. 

The shopkeepers only stopped ordering the Sun, when they got fed up of piles of unsold newspapers blocking their shops.

john x


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 10, 2011)

Bob Pitt [Lord Robert the Younger] is very exercised about this. Andy Newman on his Socialist Unity Blogg wants to know if the Star wants to be associated with racists, drug dealers and criminals. Looks like the liberals are going to get going on this, Guardian letters etc


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 10, 2011)

Good stuff. Hope link works.

http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/3217379292/edl-not-racist-not-violent-but-no-longer


----------



## Fingers (Feb 10, 2011)

Nick Ferrari (obvious commie) destroyed him  ' I am not your mate, let's be clear on that'


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 10, 2011)

lol


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 10, 2011)

These unpleasant throwbacks are going to have a demo in my town (Exeter) this Saturday 
The local EDL cretin says that this demo is being put on by a group called United People of Britain and is merely being supported by EDL. Why is this? Do EDL want plausible deniability or what?

Anyway, i'm well fucked off these shit heads are gonna be in my town


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/court/...net-probe/article-3207662-detail/article.html

Talk on main page that they are EDL


----------



## skitr (Feb 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> he or she is a fantasist,, no way was there 2000 UAF


 
There was more than 2000 at Bury park. Not 2000 uaf, 2000 anti nazi.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 10, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> These unpleasant throwbacks are going to have a demo in my town (Exeter) this Saturday
> The local EDL cretin says that this demo is being put on by a group called United People of Britain and is merely being supported by EDL. Why is this? Do EDL want plausible deniability or what?
> 
> Anyway, i'm well fucked off these shit heads are gonna be in my town



Roof top vantage point on route of march - piss bombs etc..


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 10, 2011)

They'll be getting a welcome one way or another...


----------



## manny-p (Feb 10, 2011)

embree said:


> this is ambitious stuff, he's a blue sky thinker for sure


 
Perhaps there is a career in Westminster for him after all. =p


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-12424388


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

English Defence League (EDL) Ok guys we are going to a hotbed of Islamic extremism for our next demo,Blackburn the 2nd of april,where the vox populi will be heard again.NO SURRENDER! bigG
57 minutes ago · LikeUnlike · · View Feedback (366)


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## cantsin (Feb 10, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> They'll be getting a welcome one way or another...


 
possibly a warm one ? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/articles/2007/06/05/fascist_mystery_feature.shtml


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 10, 2011)

Exeter a hotbed of Islamic fundamentalism?? Who wud have thunk it?


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 10, 2011)

Nice one canstin! Our more recent history is a bit better! Fash tried and failed to organise in Exeter in late 80's. Got run out of town by a motley collection of trots, anarchos, hunt sabs, real football fans etc.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 10, 2011)

cantsin said:


> possibly a warm one ?
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/articles/2007/06/05/fascist_mystery_feature.shtml


 
(as a blowin up in the wilds of N Devon, I'd guess it would be pretty split around here )


----------



## cantsin (Feb 10, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> Nice one canstin! Our more recent history is a bit better! Fash tried and failed to organise in Exeter in late 80's. Got run out of town by a motley collection of trots, anarchos, hunt sabs, real football fans etc.


 
good to hear !


----------



## cantsin (Feb 10, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Good stuff. Hope link works.
> 
> http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/3217379292/edl-not-racist-not-violent-but-no-longer


 
that exposing tweets / facebook lot are frickin heroes, constantly on it, must be driving the EDL  nuts, brilliant work +  a geniune example of invaluable online activism .


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)




----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 10, 2011)

Haven't seen it yet but apparently Charlie Brooker put the boot in to the Daily Star and EDL on 10 O Clock Live tonight.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2011)

yeah was ace  will be on 4OD i guess?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah was ace  will be on 4OD i guess?


 
Eventually. Often doesnt go up till next day though.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 11, 2011)

Would the EDL appreciate this?

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/lesley_hazelton_on_reading_the_koran.html


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 11, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> Would the EDL appreciate this?
> 
> http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/lesley_hazelton_on_reading_the_koran.html


 
That's great, thanks.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 11, 2011)

double post


----------



## Fingers (Feb 11, 2011)

I was surprised they announced they were going to Birmingham anyway. last time they were there they surrendered and announced the city was too dangerous for them.  The locals, black, white and brown didn't want their sort polluting their city and chased them out.

No surrender unless it gets slightly dangerous.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 11, 2011)

The ADL booked flights and paid for hotels, they can't get a refund


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm not entirely sure how protesting with a bunch of numpties in Birmingham 'defends' America. They have funny ideas about where their national borders are located do these nationalists. Same goes for the EDL bothering the Netherlands and Wales.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 11, 2011)

i would love them to come back to Cardiff 

which the never will becuase the got owned, and fuck all of them showed up


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 11, 2011)

One person not extending his congrats to Egypt was EDL member Jon Doe, who wanted to march in support of Mubarak. 

http://twitpic.com/3ypi5u


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 11, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/3yqdgm/full


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> One person not extending his congrats to Egypt was EDL member Jon Doe, who wanted to march in support of Mubarak.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/3ypi5u



He would have become his _nom de plume_ personified had he had the balls to fly over there and carry out his threat.


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 11, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> One person not extending his congrats to Egypt was EDL member Jon Doe, who wanted to march in support of Mubarak.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/3ypi5u


Imagine the fun watching them organising that


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 11, 2011)

lol


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 11, 2011)

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....G-CHARGES/article-3212320-detail/article.html


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 11, 2011)

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/...diversity/article-3198613-detail/article.html

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/...urka-demo/article-3205480-detail/article.html


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm waiting for them to dress up en masse in burkas to hide their identity at demos.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 11, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm waiting for them to dress up en masse in burkas to hide their identity at demos.


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 11, 2011)

They've just promoted this to their followers.


----------



## pk (Feb 11, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> They've just promoted this to their followers.




You on their mailing list or what?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 11, 2011)

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/...episode-4/charlie-brooker-on-multiculturalism


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 11, 2011)

pk said:


> You on their mailing list or what?


 
Know thy enemy.


----------



## Apathy (Feb 12, 2011)

nice to see daily star getting ripped, i have the unpleasure of getting to read that paper and fcking shocking.  plain racist, no hiding it.  churning out anti-paki crap every day for its paki hating readers.  where i work any mention of £6 billion in bankers bonuses gets at most a bit of tutting and shrugging of the shoulders but if you mention one muslim story they start frothing at the mouth in anger its depressing


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 12, 2011)

(((EXETER!))) 

With just a couple of days notice we got between 100 to 200 anti-EDL out. We had the square they wanted for their pathetic demo. They managed 20 (at most) who were roundly abused and insulted by the good people of Exeter. Ha ha! Fucking great afternoon. They done us a favor actually (the throw-back twats) because a lot of useful networking took place between some quite disparate groups and I met up with some folks I haven't seen in yonks.

Total humiliation for the EDL!!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2011)

Nice one


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 12, 2011)

> I wonder why Jewish Dicky Desmond is supporting the EDL. He must enjoy playing with fire.



Supposedly, extreme right wing zionist groups in the USA are financing anti islam groups in europe. If you think about it, it would be a way of undermining support for the Palestinian cause by stoking up islamaphobia. 

I don't think the EDL wave Israeli flags solely as a provocation and they have had visits from some Rabbi.

On the nazi forums there is hatred for the EDL for their association with jews but on the left no one has anything to say about it.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> (((EXETER!)))
> 
> With just a couple of days notice we got between 100 to 200 anti-EDL out. We had the square they wanted for their pathetic demo. They managed 20 (at most) who were roundly abused and insulted by the good people of Exeter. Ha ha! Fucking great afternoon. They done us a favor actually (the throw-back twats) because a lot of useful networking took place between some quite disparate groups and I met up with some folks I haven't seen in yonks.
> 
> Total humiliation for the EDL!!


 
Did you get any pictures?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2011)

> The English Defence League are aware of an incident at Chadwell Heath station involving one of our young patriots, following a demonstration in Dagenhamm. It would be inappropriate to comment any more on this matter at present and as a mark of respect for the young lad and his family we request that all members refrain from posting on this matter until full details are released. -D-




Looks like an EDL supporter got knocked down by a train and died after there demo at Dagenham (at Chadwell Heath station) . Talk is that its alcohol related and no foul play.


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Looks like an EDL supporter got knocked down by a train and died after there demo at Dagenham (at Chadwell Heath station) . Talk is that its alcohol related and no foul play.


 
Bless


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2011)

all this story needs now is for the Train driver to be a Muslim.........


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2011)

> It is with great sadness that we are having to release this statement; today our London division held a local demonstration in Dagenham . Upon the conclusion of the peaceful demonstration the division headed home via Chadwell Heath station. Unfortunately whilst at the station one of our fellow patriots entered the area of the train track. A fast train that was passing through the station hit him. The young lad who will not be named at present unfortunately died at the scene. We would like to make it clear that there were no other parties involved in this tragic incident. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends on this sad day. RIP



.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 12, 2011)

Died a dissillusioned young man. Shame.


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Did you get any pictures?


I didn't but my mate did... I'll try and get them to y'all


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2011)

About 15 members of the EDL turned out and were outnumbered by police and photographers

http://www.demotix.com/news/587653/anti-racists-celebrate-exeter-s-diversity


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> About 15 members of the EDL turned out and were outnumbered by police and photographers
> 
> http://www.demotix.com/news/587653/anti-racists-celebrate-exeter-s-diversity


Morons wearing balaclavas while protesting against the  Burka ,not very smart are they?


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 12, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> Morons wearing balaclavas while protesting against the  Burka ,not very smart are they?



We were shouting at them that they were covering their faces from shame. They didn't like that! They are really touchy about being called paedos too - i almost provoked one to violence but he lost his bottle


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2011)

How about this for a massive faceplam....

http://www.facebook.com/pages/RIP-Nathan-Tomlinson/200886719928508

they found this page and all started posting RIP, it's the wrong guy.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2011)




----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

So who is actually supporting the edl really - where does their base come from (if they have one)? because i would have thought in the last few months especially, a lot of the arguments they are making would have been massively discredited among many of the people they were perhaps hoping to attract. especially saying david cameron is brave for fighting multuculturalism ...

i'm only asking because of the image (pro and anti edl) of them being a movement of white working class people , the most recent example being that cartoon by martin rowson in the grauniad , but to what extent is this actually true in reality? and how much have they been damaged by the direction they are moving in politically in terms of members etc?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 13, 2011)

Looking at the members most of the new ones seem to be late teens early 20's, mostly getting sucked in by the thrill of the demos and it kicking off i guess.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 13, 2011)

someone has had a word i think 



http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/176588/EDL-Not-in-my-name-says-hero/

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/176587/Paedo-rap-for-EDL-leader/


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>





Comedy fash. I couldnt hit these my sides would split. So very English.


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> someone has had a word i think
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh dear,poor little Stephen or whatever hes calling himself,falling outa favour with the Uh Ah DS ,quick turnaround by the rag ,maybe there is such thing as bad publicity


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 13, 2011)

EDL will now capitalise any which way it can on this lads death today.... poor lad was on some bulshit cause and hyped up by lies and bigitory


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

I dont know bob, parts of that article still seemed pretty uncritical to me tbh especially towards the end


----------



## grogwilton (Feb 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> EDL will now capitalise any which way it can on this lads death today.... poor lad was on some bulshit cause and hyped up by lies and bigitory



Who's died?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 13, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> So who is actually supporting the edl really - where does their base come from (if they have one)? because i would have thought in the last few months especially, a lot of the arguments they are making would have been massively discredited among many of the people they were perhaps hoping to attract. especially saying david cameron is brave for fighting multuculturalism ...
> 
> i'm only asking because of the image (pro and anti edl) of them being a movement of white working class people , the most recent example being that cartoon by martin rowson in the grauniad , but to what extent is this actually true in reality? and how much have they been damaged by the direction they are moving in politically in terms of members etc?


 
Our local lot are a few over 40s , quite a few late twenties and then the rest teens/twenties. There was a wider pool of ex hoolies and fash that they could pull in but that seems to have dissipated as they have become ,more a troops support group.

One of the local youth workers was telling me that three 16 year old went to Preston because 'pakis were burning our poppies' one of the kid's brothers is serving in the army.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 13, 2011)

grogwilton said:


> Who's died?


 
16 year old lad on a anti mosque demo yesterday, seem pissed up after the demo he thought it would be a good idea to play chicken or piss about on the tracks etc, High speed train took him out. don't know any more than that, seems there was a large number of EDL at the station when it happend.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 13, 2011)

PS his death is already being used my members of the EDL to score points with the UAF and MDL etc.

He is also being described as a fallen soilder of the EDL. 

I hope Tommy had a ruff night sleep last night, fucking demo agianst a mosque FFS.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> PS his death is already being used my members of the EDL to score points with the UAF and MDL etc.
> 
> He is also being described as a fallen soilder of the EDL.
> 
> I hope Tommy had a ruff night sleep last night, fucking demo agianst a mosque FFS.



And lo, a martyrdom myth is created.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 13, 2011)

Daily Star and the EDL - the plot thickens.

http://www.minority-thought.com/2011/02/daily-star-and-edl-plot-thickens.html


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

There are several threads about the edl on scumfront especially this long one and it's actually quite an interesting and informative, if a bit of a chilling read  

http://wwwtakethisbitoutstormfront.org/forum/t734869/

and this one (not finished reading it yet) 

http://wwwtakethisbitoutstormfront.org/forum/t777439-2/


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 13, 2011)

I hope the EDL have many more martyrs in the crusade. This one was  obviously an underage drinking, overkeen trainspotter.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

he was 16. not the sort of thing you want to be saying mate


----------



## skitr (Feb 13, 2011)

Just because I'm dressed like this doesn't make me any different person.

Says he in a group with a ban the burka t-shirt.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 13, 2011)




----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 13, 2011)

Well his comrades are guilty of failing to look after him. EDL are a fucking joke. This proves it.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 13, 2011)

yeah you can't blame him, blame the sick fuckers who filled his head with hate and beer then took him on a demo.


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 This is hilarious! "It's like nazi germany" lol.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 13, 2011)

Thats how it looks. Theres a propaganda victory waiting to be scored against the scumbags on that point.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 13, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> I hope the EDL have many more martyrs in the crusade. This one was  obviously an underage drinking, overkeen trainspotter.


 
cunt


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 13, 2011)




----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 13, 2011)

allybaba said:


> cunt


 

EDL? Go play with the traffic ya daft cunt.


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


  I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for these tossers... life must be a constant struggle for them


----------



## manny-p (Feb 13, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> EDL? Go play with the traffic ya daft cunt.


 
Im not actually, but he was only 16. FFS.  I know of anti fascists past and present who used to flirt with/ run with nazis and nationalists when they were teens.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 13, 2011)

Jake they are getting more pathetic the more they show us these youtube vids. I think the Rebel Clown Army could do them [without their police support].


----------



## manny-p (Feb 13, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> I'm actually starting to feel a bit sorry for these tossers... life must be a constant struggle for them


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 13, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Im not actually, but he was only 16. FFS.  I know of anti fascists past and present who used to flirt with/ run with nazis and nationalists when they were teens.



Aye bit of a shame that he was so young and taken in by these cunts who couldnt keep a good eye on him. When you look at the cunts in these vids doing their stunts and remonstrating weakly with plod im sure you would agree you wouldnt trust the cretins with your dog never mind 16 year old boy. And thats before we talk about the EDL Peado and Nonces Division.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

part 2 of that video is even more pointless, a staff member confronting them - "I dont understand why your doing it!"


----------



## manny-p (Feb 13, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> Aye bit of a shame that he was so young and taken in by these cunts who couldnt keep a good eye on him. When you look at the cunts in these vids doing their stunts and remonstrating weakly with plod im sure you would agree you wouldnt trust the cretins with your dog never mind 16 year old boy. And thats before we talk about the EDL Peado and Nonces Division.


 
Yeah in hindsight I apoligise for the cunt comment.  The EDL's politics are restricted to crappy stunts like this and their marches. They don't have nowt to say over the cuts.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 13, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> (((EXETER!)))
> 
> With just a couple of days notice we got between 100 to 200 anti-EDL out. We had the square they wanted for their pathetic demo. They managed 20 (at most) who were roundly abused and insulted by the good people of Exeter. Ha ha! Fucking great afternoon. They done us a favor actually (the throw-back twats) because a lot of useful networking took place between some quite disparate groups and I met up with some folks I haven't seen in yonks.
> 
> Total humiliation for the EDL!!


 
good work !


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Yeah in hindsight I apoligise for the cunt comment.  The EDL's politics are restricted to crappy stunts like this and their marches. They don't have nowt to say over the cuts.


 
Thing is, the UAF etc don't either, tories/labour mps on the platform etc. (from wyat ive heard, i might be wrong, if the people doing that actuallyy are in the UAF?). 

That's why I was wondering though. Who supports them now? I'd have guessed that some of the people they think they can attract would actually be the most affected by cuts, but the english defence league are anti union and never mention anything about them?


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 13, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> Jake they are getting more pathetic the more they show us these youtube vids. I think the Rebel Clown Army could do them [without their police support].


 Do you think it is an amazingly subtle PR campaign on their part to get the anti-fascists to drop their guard?   I doubt it somehow!


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)




----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 13, 2011)

LOL that level of sophistication  and the EDL no way.  Dont know if you agree, but if we didnt have the hopeless UAF round our necks and a half decent AFA/RA/Antifa with a base in the working class and a real political alternative to both Labour and the fash/EDL then we could see off the EDL and later the BNP  on all levels.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

Lol at this idiot calling on Muslims to join the EDL!


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

"If you put your hand up to support the queen, that's not a nazi salute"


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 13, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> LOL that level of sophistication  and the EDL no way.  Dont know if you agree, but if we didnt have the hopeless UAF round our necks and a half decent AFA/RA/Antifa with a base in the working class and a real political alternative to both Labour and the fash/EDL then we could see off the EDL and later the BNP  on all levels.


 Dunno, i is only an anarchist of the yobbo tendency and that sort of strategic thinking is beyond me! The Exeter anti-EDL display wasn't UAF as far as i know, more a collection of various concerned groups & individuals (there was even an antique yellow ANL lollipop on display). I think our strength lays in our diversity. Having said that there is always a need for a cohort of up for it types to give the fash a clip round the ear when necessary!


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 13, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> LOL that level of sophistication  and the EDL no way.  Dont know if you agree, but if we didnt have the hopeless UAF round our necks and a *half decent AFA/RA/Antifa with a base in the working class and a real political alternative to both Labour and the fash/EDL then we could see off the EDL and later the BNP  on all levels.*



A point that has been made on here time and time again only for the anarchisty types to avoid the question of building a political alternative


----------



## manny-p (Feb 13, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> A point that has been made on here time and time again only for the anarchisty types to avoid the question of building a political alternative


 
Weren't anarchists in AFA? DAM were right?


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 13, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> A point that has been made on here time and time again only for the anarchisty types to avoid the question of building a political alternative


 Anarchists understand that to stop fascism we need to claim the streets and this means physical resistance. This then allows a fascist free space for people to develop their own alternative (in my opinion). I am an atheist but i can stand side by side with Christians and Muslims to resist fascism. I can do this because i discount all dogma. In the same way i can stand alongside trots, liberals, members of the peoples front of judea to fight fascism because as an anarchist all dogma is equally suspect but freedom is not. Fascism is anti-freedom, therefore i am anti-fascist. You can believe what you want.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 13, 2011)

DAM were right about what?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 13, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> DAM were right about what?


 
That DAM were in the AFA. Sorry the way I wrote my earlier comment twas was confusing.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 13, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> Anarchists understand that to stop fascism we need to claim the streets and this means physical resistance. This then allows a fascist free space for people to develop their own alternative (in my opinion). I am an atheist but i can stand side by side with Christians and Muslims to resist fascism. I can do this because i discount all dogma. In the same way i can stand alongside trots, liberals, members of the peoples front of judea to fight fascism because as an anarchist all dogma is equally suspect but freedom is not. Dascism is anti-freedom, therefore i am anti-fascist. You can believe what you want.



Actually this was the AFA position ( which although it allowed anarchists to join wasn't anarchist led)  What followed some time later was an analysis about why this 'gap or vacuum' hadn't been filled.Seeing as there are no streets to be claimed as the BNP don't march or contest them it might be worth re thinking your position through.


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 13, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Actually this was the AFA position ( which although it allowed anarchists to join wasn't anarchist led)  What followed some time later was an analysis about why this 'gap or vacuum' hadn't been filled.Seeing as there are no streets to be claimed as the BNP don't march or contest them it might be worth re thinking your position through.


 I'm always re-considering my position on these things. You have a point... However, an anti-fascist movement that buys into a wider political view point is, by definition, going to alienate supporters, eg, 'we are socialist and atheist' will alienate non-political religious types. A successful anti-racist movement needs to take all of the community with it. It needs respectable types to carry out the sort of action we had in Exeter (non-violent, children getting face painted etc) and knarly anarchos, bitter & twisted trots and so on to physically protect this.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 13, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> I'm always re-considering my position on these things. You have a point... However, an anti-fascist movement that buys into a wider political view point is, by definition, going to alienate supporters, eg, 'we are socialist and atheist' will alienate non-political religious types. A successful anti-racist movement needs to take all of the community with it. It needs respectable types to carry out the sort of action we had in Exeter (non-violent, children getting face painted etc) and knarly anarchos, bitter & twisted trots and so on to physically protect this.



Aye aslong as you don't do any of that 'we all hamas' shit


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 13, 2011)

The idea that you can effectively fight the far right without offering a political alternative is bollocks. People turn to the far right because they are disaffected by mainstream politics and mainstream parties and feel marginalised in society. All the diversity celebrations in the fucking world won't fix that. That's fine for mobilising those already opposed to the far right, it's going to do sweet fuck all to engage with those who are or could be won over to the far right.

One of the most common answers ime when people are asked why they vote(d) BNP isn't directly to do with race - it's usually 'because they listen to us' or equivalent. It's not true, the BNP are ineffective local campaigners with a shit record when elected, it's a perception, and it's one born of feeling that the main parties don't represent them. It's about class at root, and it's the absence of a mass pro-working class political alternative - not even necessarily electoral, although that would help - that gives the far right room to develop. Even when people say 'there are too many immigrants' or whatever, it's socio-economic - a perception that outsiders enjoy greater social mobility, that outsiders are less marginalised socially than they are, that political correctness/multiculturalism or vote collecting by mainstream parties gives them greater representation and influence than they enjoy. 'They are taking our jobs and council houses' = there are not enough jobs or council houses, at root - it's just the wrong conclusion. The racism is often the conclusion they've arrived at for their disillusionment, not the catalyst for it.

People spend a bit too much time focussing on the far right and not enough on why they exist imo.

I'm not having a go at anybody, mobilising those already opposed to the far right serves a purpose, it can reassure those feeling victimised by the presence of an active far right in that area, give confidence to those engaged in anti-racism/anti-fascism, and knocks the confidence of far-right activists, but it's just fire-fighting, it's never going to offer a solution. And all too often, because of a lack of understanding of what feeds the far right, it actually entrenches support for the far right, for lots of reasons - because the anti-racist side becomes a platform for mainstream politicians, or because so called antifascists come out with crap about 'council estate scum' or chavs or laziness, and everybody studiously ignores the underlying issues. It responds to what are essentially class issues with gloating middle class reaction, and these people fucking damage us enormously. It puts 'anti-fascism' on the same level as the mainstream political parties - 'at least the far right listen to us'.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 13, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> I'm always re-considering my position on these things. You have a point... However, an anti-fascist movement that buys into a wider political view point is, by definition, going to alienate supporters, eg, 'we are socialist and atheist' will alienate non-political religious types. A successful anti-racist movement needs to take all of the community with it. It needs respectable types to carry out the sort of action we had in Exeter (non-violent, children getting face painted etc) and knarly anarchos, bitter & twisted trots and so on to physically protect this.


 
Political alternatives normally do have 'respectable types' .How do you think the BNP does so well for example. But being 'respectable' doesn't mean that you have to be soft politically . 

real political alternatives to the BNP and to the parties that create the conditions in which the BNP thrives are not going to be based on either ' we are socialist and atheists' nor will they be based 'knarly anarchos, bitter & twisted trots '. One of the problems with some that support anti fascism is that they promote a lifestyle/identity politics  type ghetto that puts normal working class people off politics.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> The idea that you can effectively fight the far right without offering a political alternative is bollocks. People turn to the far right because they are disaffected by mainstream politics and mainstream parties and feel marginalised in society. All the diversity celebrations in the fucking world won't fix that. That's fine for mobilising those already opposed to the far right, it's going to do sweet fuck all to engage with those who are or could be won over to the far right.
> 
> One of the most common answers ime when people are asked why they vote(d) BNP isn't directly to do with race - it's usually 'because they listen to us' or equivalent. It's not true, the BNP are ineffective local campaigners with a shit record when elected, it's a perception, and it's one born of feeling that the main parties don't represent them. It's about class at root, and it's the absence of a mass pro-working class political alternative - not even necessarily electoral, although that would help - that gives the far right room to develop. Even when people say 'there are too many immigrants' or whatever, it's socio-economic - a perception that outsiders enjoy greater social mobility, that outsiders are less marginalised socially than they are, that political correctness/multiculturalism or vote collecting by mainstream parties gives them greater representation and influence than they enjoy. 'They are taking our jobs and council houses' = there are not enough jobs or council houses, at root - it's just the wrong conclusion. The racism is often the conclusion they've arrived at for their disillusionment, not the catalyst for it.
> 
> ...


 
well said


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 13, 2011)

Well, Well, well, we have got to page 30 of the EDL watch thread and the posts are now suddenly taking a very nice turn towards the coherent and analitical. In fact there are more realistic points raised here on one page than there is in the entire UAF manifesto.

I have a couple of dodgy questions to pose here. Firstly, Is there anything about the EDL that would justify AFA type tactics to be used against them? My feeling is that maybe not as they are a far cry from the murderous gangs fielded in the past but I could be wrong. I get the impression they are nothing compared with what the extreme right would like to have on the street.

Also, why is it that, as an anti-fascist myself, the image the UAF has makes my stomach turn?


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2011)

because david cameron and other tory MPs were among its founding members maybe? 

http://uaf.org.uk/about/founding-signatories/


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

it's been suggested to me, and i think there's some merit to it, that the EDL have more immediate potential to turn into something resembling a slightly less institutionalised 'Orange Order' than the next brownshirts.

dunno what folks think to that.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

The fuck with all this suggested to me and i'm told, my sources. They're all wrong each fucking week.

An Orange order? Come back in 400 years and we'll tell you you were wrong. Do you know what the OO is?


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

got fuck all to do with 'sources' knobhead, this is just a theory that's been noted


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 14, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> The idea that you can effectively fight the far right without offering a political alternative is bollocks.'.


 Yes, no argument there from me. The opportunity to connect the dots wasn't lost on Saturday in Exeter. The resistance is building and the EDL (bless em) acted as a catalyst.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> got fuck all to do with 'sources' knobhead, this is just a theory that's been noted


Well i've now mentioned your 'sources' and laughed at your suggestion.  It's politically, historically and all fucking ways inept. I hope your 'source' (i.e i'll post any old shit my mate on a bus OMG the EDL have killed everyone in manchester!!) isn't the same one doing the 'suggestions'.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> got fuck all to do with 'sources' knobhead, this is just a theory that's been noted


 
Who has noted this theory?


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

you pissed again?


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

it's come up in conversations with friends, is what i mean. i didn't want to claim it as my own observation 'cos it's not - and despite the self-aggrandizing image of me you've weaved into your pyschopathic little tapestry of 'profiles' for all the urban75 contributors, i am genuinely not here to impress the shattered, depressive remnants of the fucking left


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Yes, the edl are the new OO with their history, their w/c roots. Their direct connection with thousands of militants, their access to weapons, and their votes.
That's what they are.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

alright, so you don't reckon so. cheers for participating, as always


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

It says more about the idiocies that you and your mates start with then. There's a real world out there - analyse that.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

if you bothered to delve into the context of what i was saying, you'd realise that actually the comparison wasn't about 'bigging up' the threat of the EDL. it was actually about providing a cultural cross-narrative linking the EDL structurally and in terms of its activities less with 'fascism' and brownshirts (as some pretty commonplace observations suggest) and more with parades and conservative 'community event' style gatherings, etc. a conservative cult of national myths for a disenfranchised population.

it was actively not linking the EDL today with the threat of Loyalist style paramilitaries.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Why did you just invent the 'bigging up' quote? 

And it wasn't. If it was it would have laughed at itself.  Now off you go sonny.


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It says more about the idiocies that you and your mates start with then. There's a real world out there - analyse that.


 
Seems to be an even more real world out there that YOU cannot accept exists.

As if everything needs to be approved by you LOL.

Don't talk about there being a "real world out there" butchersapron, I doubt you even have an up to date passport.

I'm more inclined to hear what Das Uberdog has to say than rely on your blinkered agendas.

If you really did have the answers you wouldn't be here on urban75 and you know it.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Why did you just invent the 'bigging up' quote?
> 
> And it wasn't. If it was it would have laughed at itself.  Now off you go sonny.


 
you're cracked, as if i would care enough about it to lie to you!


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> if you bothered to delve into the context of what i was saying, you'd realise that actually the comparison wasn't about 'bigging up' the threat of the EDL. it was actually about providing a cultural cross-narrative linking the EDL structurally and in terms of its activities less with 'fascism' and brownshirts (as some pretty commonplace observations suggest) and more with parades and conservative 'community event' style gatherings, etc. a conservative cult of national myths for a disenfranchised population.
> 
> it was actively not linking the EDL today with the threat of Loyalist style paramilitaries.



What myths do these existing conservative cults rely on? What history? There's something there to build on.  There is not with the edl. Easy as it is for you think, as a swp member, of the w/c as easily led by bright colours and loud sounds where is the evidence? You edl watchers sit on youtube all day. Let's have it.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

pk said:


> Seems to be an even more real world out there that YOU cannot accept exists.
> 
> As if everything needs to be approved by you LOL.
> 
> ...


 
Not content with the WSW trots he now lines up with the SWP trots. Well done Pk. Tell it like it about the Muslim.

Desperate in every way possible.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

relies on a false 'clash of civilizations' thesis for starters, with some added blitzy Churchill bullshit for seconds. weak as shit, i'm not saying otherwise, but then again i'm not actually saying the EDL are anywhere near the level of threat as the Orange Order as you presumed


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What myths do these existing conservative cults rely on? What history? There's something there to build on.  There is not with the edl. Easy as it is for you think, as a swp member, of the w/c as easily led by bright colours and loud sounds where is the evidence? You edl watchers sit on youtube all day. Let's have it.


 
Youtube and Facebook and internet mailing lists are where the EDL find their "patriots".

Your tactics in this matter are stuck in the 1980's.


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Not content with the WSW trots he now lines up with the SWP trots. Well done Pk. Tell it like it about the Muslim.
> 
> Desperate in every way possible.


 
What are you wibbling on about??

I "line up" with nobody. No-one at all.

You of all people should know that by now.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> relies on a false 'clash of civilizations' thesis for starters, with some added blitzy Churchill bullshit for seconds. weak as shit, i'm not saying otherwise, but then again i'm not actually saying the EDL are anywhere near the level of threat as the Orange Order as you presumed


 
Well all sorts of dappy liberals do too. It's meaningless. The OO self-justification is far more subtle than that as well.

Talking of clash of civilizations apes, _it's us or the muslims_, you have a new fan PK.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

pk said:


> Youtube and Facebook and internet mailing lists are where the EDL find their "patriots".
> 
> Your tactics in this matter are stuck in the 1980's.


 
There's a bit hanging out mate. Wipe it off.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

cracked


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

and if you'd care to look, fuck the subtleties, that's what the EDL _are actually going for_


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> There's a bit hanging out mate. Wipe it off.


 
Tell it to someone who gives a fuck who the WSW or the SWP are.

I'm the "apolitical" one, remember? You can't have it both ways.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> cracked


 
You said something i disagreed with. I told you why. I related it to past posts of yours. I expanded on why i think you're wrong. Mad muslim hater turns up backing you up.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> and if you'd care to look, fuck the subtleties, that's what the EDL _are actually going for_


 They can try to get all they want - they can't achieve a damn thing. They have zero social power. They have zero cultural power. They have zero economic power. All sorts of groups might aim at something without us accepting that they've achieved it.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

pk said:


> Tell it to someone who gives a fuck who the WSW or the SWP are.
> 
> I'm the "apolitical" one, remember? You can't have it both ways.


 
Leave some for others eh? Be fair.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

that's a fucking Blairite re-reading of your fucking bile torrent if ever i saw one! and how am i pk's fan? how am i linked to what i described as a 'flawed clash of civilizations thesis'? and if you're not saying either of the two above things, then i have no idea what that post did mean


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 14, 2011)

@ #759 that's a fair comment - i wouldn't necessarily disagree. but i think that's their model, and thus where their threat lies, if it's going to be anywhere.

in the meantime though they are still merrily terrorizing any Asians they're able to come across.


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> _it's us or the muslims_, you have a new fan PK.


 
 Now look who's falsely quoting who?

I think I did a pretty good job in demonstrating how the so-called left is unable to even discuss the nastier aspects of extremism that have taken root in working class areas - your silence was deafening in fact. Face it, the world doesn't need your ideas to solve the big problems. Stick to sitting on a sofa telling us all how the working class are motivated, and others will do all the real work and congratulate you for reading so many big books with hard words in.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> that's a fucking Blairite re-reading of your fucking bile torrent if ever i saw one! and how am i pk's fan? how am i linked to what i described as a 'flawed clash of civilizations thesis'? and if you're not saying either of the two above things, then i have no idea what that post did mean


 
What is?

PK's your fan - he hunts muslims. He thinks jumping on your back will help him do it. He's how you're linked to the clash.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

pk said:


> Now look who's falsely quoting who?
> 
> I think I did a pretty good job in demonstrating how the so-called left is unable to even discuss the nastier aspects of extremism that have taken root in working class areas - your silence was deafening in fact. Face it, the world doesn't need your ideas to solve the big problems. Stick to sitting on a sofa telling us all how the working class are motivated, and others will do all the real work and congratulate you for reading so many big books with hard words in.



This is the w/c working in the gulf last week is it? 

Sorry, you're done mate. Back to just laughing at you.


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

"mad muslim hater" LOL

How many muslim countries you been to butchersapron?? How many muslim towns you ever lived in??


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

I see not only dog can make quotes up.


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This is the w/c working in the gulf last week is it?
> 
> Sorry, you're done mate. Back to just laughing at you.


 
Oh I'm all over it. At least I can speak from direct experience, you just rant from frustration old man.

I'm not laughing at you, I just think you'd be better if you weren't so fucking emo all the time.


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I see not only dog can make quotes up.


 
LOL king of strawman accuses me of making up quotes - you referred to me as "mad muslim hater" which is childish bollocks and besides, you had fuck all to say on the very valid issues being raised, no, you left it to the dingdongs of this world.

Anyway, arguing with you is laughable if you're going to run to the moderators and _falsely_ accuse me of revealing your passwords, so drink up son, there's a Monday morning tomorrow for you to to avoid by lecturing people on how there's a real world out there...


----------



## Davo1 (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> relies on a false 'clash of civilizations' thesis for starters, with some added blitzy Churchill bullshit for seconds. weak as shit, i'm not saying otherwise, but then again i'm not actually saying the EDL are anywhere near the level of threat as the Orange Order as you presumed




I went to an anti-EDL demo in 2009, it was shit. When they finally let us out of the pen we suddenly came up against a load of them waving union jacks and spouting shit. One of them stood next to me and looked at me (as a 'white man') and insisted 'THEY get everything and WE get nothing' [pointing at Muslims]. Nonsense (or is it, I don't know being a white collar?), but the root cause of the problem. Like the Tidy man seemed to say above, until people come to terms with this the Right will always have the 'whip hand' (arf!, "detournment").

The problem is UAF think politics is 'niceness', moral goodness....

Fuck that shit!


----------



## manny-p (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> it's been suggested to me, and i think there's some merit to it, that the EDL have more immediate potential to turn into something resembling a slightly less institutionalised 'Orange Order' than the next brownshirts.
> 
> dunno what folks think to that.


 
The current EDL are pathetic but I should praise them on the fact that they don't play flutes, bang drums, dress up like tango cunts, cause traffic jams and piss people off every marching season. Never want to experience needing to get somewhere and being stuck behind a moving allowed to go anywhere they want orange march ever again.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 14, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/14/daily-star-crude-propaganda


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 14, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Well, Well, well, we have got to page 30 of the EDL watch thread and the posts are now suddenly taking a very nice turn towards the coherent and analitical. In fact there are more realistic points raised here on one page than there is in the entire UAF manifesto.
> 
> I have a couple of dodgy questions to pose here. Firstly, Is there anything about the EDL that would justify AFA type tactics to be used against them? My feeling is that maybe not as they are a far cry from the murderous gangs fielded in the past but I could be wrong. I get the impression they are nothing compared with what the extreme right would like to have on the street.
> 
> Also, why is it that, as an anti-fascist myself, the image the UAF has makes my stomach turn?


 Do you think we should start a new thread to discuss this stuff?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 14, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> Do you think we should start a new thread to discuss this stuff?


 
Aye-why not.


----------



## revlon (Feb 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/14/daily-star-crude-propaganda



_"Robinson-Lennon recently appeared on Newsnight, up against Paxman. Not a classic battle of wits, but nonetheless the EDL's man came out on top: while middle-class viewers may have chortled at Robinson-Lennon's relative inarticulacy, others may have seen a member of the establishment sneering at a working-class white guy"._


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 14, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> if you bothered to delve into the context of what i was saying, you'd realise that actually the comparison wasn't about 'bigging up' the threat of the EDL. it was actually about providing a cultural cross-narrative linking the EDL structurally and in terms of its activities less with 'fascism' and brownshirts (as some pretty commonplace observations suggest) and more with parades and conservative 'community event' style gatherings, etc. a conservative cult of national myths for a disenfranchised population.
> 
> it was actively not linking the EDL today with the threat of Loyalist style paramilitaries.


 
Is this what passes for analysis for fucks sake.

"Providing a cultural cross-narrative linking the EDL structurally". Oh my.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 14, 2011)

revlon said:


> _" may have seen a member of the establishment sneering at a working-class white guy"._


 
Well we are used to that.


----------



## ungovernable (Feb 14, 2011)

EDL Exeter Division Humiliated, see


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 14, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> Do you think we should start a new thread to discuss this stuff?



Yeah, leave this EDL watch for the news and titbits and maybe have another thread on a more analitical tip. you wanna start it?


----------



## jannerboyuk (Feb 14, 2011)

ungovernable said:


> EDL Exeter Division Humiliated, see




The irony of ban the burhka knobs covering their faces. bit fick innit?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 14, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yeah, leave this EDL watch for the news and titbits and maybe have another thread on a more analitical tip. you wanna start it?


 
What do you want it to be about?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 14, 2011)

pk said:


> Youtube and Facebook and internet mailing lists are where the EDL find their "patriots".
> 
> Your tactics in this matter are stuck in the 1980's.



I would have never guessed in a million years that EDL were into this. You are a regular  professor pk.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What do you want it to be about?


 
Something that combined analisis of the nature of the EDL and the left's reaction to it and the failure to pose a credible alternative. 

I haven't checked out all the forum, yet, so maybe there is already something along those lines..


----------



## pk (Feb 14, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Something that combined analisis of the nature of the EDL and the left's reaction to it and the failure to pose a credible alternative.
> 
> I haven't checked out all the forum, yet, so maybe there is already something along those lines..



There is...


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 14, 2011)

You're more likely to find that stuff on BNP threads.

The edl don't require a 'credible alternative' as their politics are piss poor enough not to warrant one.


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 14, 2011)

ungovernable said:


> EDL Exeter Division Humiliated, see



 Category : comedy


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 14, 2011)

revlon said:


> _"Robinson-Lennon recently appeared on Newsnight, up against Paxman. Not a classic battle of wits, but nonetheless the EDL's man came out on top: while middle-class viewers may have chortled at Robinson-Lennon's relative inarticulacy, others may have seen a member of the establishment sneering at a working-class white guy"._


 
Having watched some of the recent interviews etc regarding the EDL I can only get the impression "tommy" is trying to cultivate that image deliberately ...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 15, 2011)

So presumably, the EDL don't want Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Rastafarians, Orthodox Christians, or vegetarians here either?

http://twitpic.com/4027xq

Burn schools!

http://twitpic.com/402agb/full

Mark Witts resigns!

http://twitpic.com/402c0w/full


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 15, 2011)

at some of those comments!


----------



## Blagsta (Feb 15, 2011)

revlon said:


> _"Robinson-Lennon recently appeared on Newsnight, up against Paxman. Not a classic battle of wits, but nonetheless the EDL's man came out on top: while middle-class viewers may have chortled at Robinson-Lennon's relative inarticulacy, others may have seen a member of the establishment sneering at a working-class white guy"._


 
He's a business owner isn't he? Culturally working class maybe, but economically petit bourgeois.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2011)

A boutique no less ( i think)


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 15, 2011)

Tanning salon


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2011)

Up the workers!


----------



## Blagsta (Feb 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> A boutique no less ( i think)


 
The ponce


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 15, 2011)

Coach company promises not to transport fascists ever again.

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/02/473779.html


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 15, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Is this what passes for analysis for fucks sake.
> 
> "Providing a cultural cross-narrative linking the EDL structurally". Oh my.


 
can't you follow it? poor bairn


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2011)

Bairn - that's what the workers say. They aso say bampot.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 15, 2011)

just Geordies, and who gives a flying fuck anyway?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 15, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> can't you follow it? poor bairn


 
Lol. What's to follow?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2011)




----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 15, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Lol. What's to follow?


 
lol


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


>




devastating... wtf are you on about again?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2011)

The bairns! I love the working class. Save the bairns!


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 15, 2011)

Spuggy in a cage.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 15, 2011)

... there's only one person here so desperately obsessed by working class culture...


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 15, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> He's a business owner isn't he? Culturally working class maybe, but economically petit bourgeois.


 
Which is  a class that can be won over to either the workers or the bosses side. 

A fair proportion of those involved or supporting the revo left in Italy in the 1970s ended up a small bar or shop owners


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 15, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> ... there's only one person here so desperately obsessed by working class culture...


 
has he by any chance , been to Russia?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 15, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=110925815651341&set=o.109490015749172

here we go....


----------



## exeter mike (Feb 15, 2011)

Exeter EDL protest;

This was organized by UAF and others. It wasn’t just a coming together of local people and did not miraculously appear out of thin air. 

Last summer the EDL were threatening to have a march on the Mosque – we had a meeting that agreed to hold a celebration of diversity in opposition. The EDL then backed off from this.

In early January the EDL had 6 of their members walking up and down the High Street in balaclavas. This was in the run up to Luton – so we decided to leaflet the footie ground. 15 of us put in 1000 lealfets – the EDL id’d one person who subsequently got threats + abuse on facbook.

While trawling facebook we discovered they were planning “ban the burka” protest – seemed bigger. UAF has big email list and called organizing meeting – some unions, Labour Party, students who had occupied the Uni and the Woodcraft Folk attended. Counter protest called and publicized by email.

I have sympathy with the comments about needing a political alternative to undercut the EDL. We decided to call a “celebration” cos people wanted something positive + Big, wanted kids involved etc. We did a leaflet (3000 given out) that as well as saying who the EDL are we also included section;  

“The truth is we all face attacks on our jobs and pay…
The present government is trying to cut people’s pay, put up taxes and cut services – all to pay for a crisis caused by the bankers. And yet the EDL have nothing to say about this - their only answer is to scapegoat Muslims for all the problems in society. “


----------



## pk (Feb 15, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> ... there's only one person here so desperately obsessed by working class culture...


 
I find the people who make the most noise about "the working class" are the people least likely to be actually working for a living... just my observation, and there are always exceptions to the rule... most of these EDL lot are Stella swigging lazy bastards as far as I can tell... always amusing when they accuse the foreigners of "stealing their jobs" when they refuse to take same jobs in favour of dole money...


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 15, 2011)

pk said:


> I find the people who make the most noise about "the working class" are the people least likely to be actually working for a living... just my observation, and there are always exceptions to the rule... most of these EDL lot are Stella swigging lazy bastards as far as I can tell... always amusing when they accuse the foreigners of "stealing their jobs" when they refuse to take same jobs in favour of dole money...


 
How would you know whether EDL members are refusing same jobs in favour of dole money? It's a convenient stereo type and i have seen letters in the Guardian making the same point but how true is it? 

The same stereotype could be made against the Muslim separatists , are they too refusing to work and claim dole money? Not sure about the groomers either.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 15, 2011)

exactly


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 15, 2011)

exeter mike said:


> Exeter EDL protest;
> 
> This was organized by UAF and others. It wasn’t just a coming together of local people and did not miraculously appear out of thin air.
> 
> ...


 
Interesting first post ...


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 15, 2011)

It's also a bollocks stereotype.

First of all, many EDL are or have been hoolies. Most lads work. You don't spunk a few grand every year on clothes unless you've got an income.

Second of all, anybody who makes the argument that 'immigrants do the jobs that others can't be arsed to do' is a middle class bellend, which admittedly is hardly a revelation in pk's case.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 15, 2011)

Those edl hoodies etc hardly look like you could buy them for two quid down the charity shop.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 15, 2011)

Tommy has to pay for his sniff somehow


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 15, 2011)

Tommy lol


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 15, 2011)

Has anyone watched those videos of the EDL Supporting muslim guy? bizarre and disturbing


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 15, 2011)

Yaxley-Lennon, proper prole lol


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 16, 2011)

Tanning salon owners of the world unite (Except if they are muslim)


----------



## pk (Feb 16, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> How would you know whether EDL members are refusing same jobs in favour of dole money?
> It's a convenient stereo type and i have seen letters in the Guardian making the same point but how true is it?
> 
> The same stereotype could be made against the Muslim separatists , are they too refusing to work and claim dole money? Not sure about the groomers either.


 
"The Guardian" LOL you'll have to do better than that Mr Step.

How true is it? Why are you asking me?

You know them better than I do PT, and that's because you used to run with them.


----------



## pk (Feb 16, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> It's also a bollocks stereotype.
> 
> First of all, many EDL are or have been hoolies. Most lads work. You don't spunk a few grand every year on clothes unless you've got an income.
> 
> Second of all, anybody who makes the argument that 'immigrants do the jobs that others can't be arsed to do' is a middle class bellend, which admittedly is hardly a revelation in pk's case.


 
So you make the argument that I am somehow providing "bollocks stereotype" then you go on to describe me as a "middle class bellend". 

I don't know what constitutes middle class on your planet but you are so hilariously wrong it beggars belief. You think because I can type without making spelling mistakes (too often) that I was boarded with the very essence of honey'ed spoon, that I am from gilded loins and endless options. 
I'm just a jumped up cunt same as you, only I chose to reject all that marxist bollocks because I chose a life instead.
And I'm glad I did, because it seems genuine revolutionary technology has caught up with revolutionary politics. About time too! Viva Wikileaks!


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 16, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Has anyone watched those videos of the EDL Supporting muslim guy? bizarre and disturbing


 The phrase Usefull Idiot springs to mind


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 16, 2011)

I sometimes think that if it wasn't for free thinking types like pk that we would have all of been brainwashed by the commies and the marxists. Thank heavens one man took a stand , not just for himself but for mankind but for those too many to name like Ruby and Boogie Boy, Foo and the Cambridge crew ,Loud1, you da man, keep up the good work - Atomic Suplex, all the best, still owe you a drink or two for the kit, best of luck in Nippon, you rock - Kid Eternity for sticking up for ol' pk and for being creative, never stop - Longdog for being one of the old skool favourite posters here - Tony1798, we'll have that Guinness when I'm not playing records! - Maggot for the help and loyalty, cheers mate - Tarranau and Lizardqueen, hope to see you around sometime - Eastender for the mad sessions way back - Tanky and Milesey for being a lovely couple even though they didn't invite me to their wedding - Cloo for being you - Haylz for being in Wales - Jazzz for being a spazz, just keep the pianism up yes? - Griff for the red shoes, dude, when next in Essex... - Yossarian for making me laugh daily at 3am for years, nice one mate! - JC2 for being a good Canuck, never met a bad one (except once in Israel) look after yourself dude - Sheof for never showing her face, respect and blessings - Relahni and Rollem for the Bermondsey massive - Skim (keep the 808 break) nice DJ work BTW and good luck with the baby - Pinkmonkey.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 16, 2011)

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...als-secretly-love-the-english-defence-league/


----------



## pk (Feb 16, 2011)

Face it, revolutions can be organised, and won, without having to listen to any of the faded 1980's marxist pisshead drivel. Brilliant news IMO.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 16, 2011)

vive la glorious revolution of twitter! oh, hold on- military governance.


----------



## pk (Feb 16, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> vive la glorious revolution of twitter! oh, hold on- military governance.


 
Naa. Vive le Take That.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 16, 2011)

Ultimate fail! ^^ Riot plod ffs?


----------



## pk (Feb 16, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Ultimate fail! ^^ Riot plod ffs?


 
Yup. Apparently they were due to play this show during the student riots but Simon Cowell wouldn't let them.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 16, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...als-secretly-love-the-english-defence-league/


 
That is a nauseatingly smug piece. One thing surley more annoying than preening middle class lefties is preening middle class reactionaries getting on their high horse about them, making sweeping unqualified assumptions and invoking lazy stereotypes just to fill space.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 16, 2011)

pk said:


> You know them better than I do PT, and that's because you used to run with them.



Ahahahaha



pk said:


> And I'm glad I did, because it seems genuine revolutionary technology has caught up with revolutionary politics. About time too! Viva Wikileaks!



Oh my



The39thStep said:


> I sometimes think that if it wasn't for free thinking types like pk that we would have all of been brainwashed by the commies and the marxists. Thank heavens one man took a stand , not just for himself but for mankind but for those too many to name like Ruby and Boogie Boy, Foo and the Cambridge crew ,Loud1, you da man, keep up the good work - Atomic Suplex, all the best, still owe you a drink or two for the kit, best of luck in Nippon, you rock - Kid Eternity for sticking up for ol' pk and for being creative, never stop - Longdog for being one of the old skool favourite posters here - Tony1798, we'll have that Guinness when I'm not playing records! - Maggot for the help and loyalty, cheers mate - Tarranau and Lizardqueen, hope to see you around sometime - Eastender for the mad sessions way back - Tanky and Milesey for being a lovely couple even though they didn't invite me to their wedding - Cloo for being you - Haylz for being in Wales - Jazzz for being a spazz, just keep the pianism up yes? - Griff for the red shoes, dude, when next in Essex... - Yossarian for making me laugh daily at 3am for years, nice one mate! - JC2 for being a good Canuck, never met a bad one (except once in Israel) look after yourself dude - Sheof for never showing her face, respect and blessings - Relahni and Rollem for the Bermondsey massive - Skim (keep the 808 break) nice DJ work BTW and good luck with the baby - Pinkmonkey.



lol


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 16, 2011)

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2011/february/16/jades_crossing_defaced.aspx


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 16, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...als-secretly-love-the-english-defence-league/


 
Please dont link to anything from the wankers from spiked online - they are self appointed 'contrarians' tossers who use obstensibly left libertarian arguments to promote an ulitimately pro-rightwing/establishment agenda. They have a media presence and influence that is mystfyingly out of all proportion to their  relevance, position or intellectual ability (witness the amount of discussion programmes that the utterly fuckwitted clare fox turns up on).

They use the same cynical entryist tactics on the media that they learnt whilst members of the Revolutionary Communist Party wierdo cult (who used to argue things like 'socialists should oppose the NHS')  

Avoid like the plaugue/shoot on sight.


----------



## pk (Feb 16, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Ahahahaha


 
Yeah coz by posting up a 5 year old drunken thread you're bound to win any argument. 

How many of your 'casuals' mates sing along with the racist songs at the footie??


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 16, 2011)

pk said:


> Yeah coz by posting up a 5 year old drunken thread you're bound to win any argument.
> 
> How many of your 'casuals' mates sing along with the racist songs at the footie??


 
Awesome.


----------



## revlon (Feb 16, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That is a nauseatingly smug piece. One thing surley more annoying than preening middle class lefties is preening middle class reactionaries getting on their high horse about them, making sweeping unqualified assumptions and invoking lazy stereotypes just to fill space.


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 16, 2011)

exeter mike said:


> Exeter EDL protest;
> 
> This was organized by UAF and others. It wasn’t just a coming together of local people and did not miraculously appear out of thin air.
> 
> ...


Hello Mike. Nice one for organising the Celebration of Diversity. Keep it up!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 16, 2011)

I suspect they'll be vastly out numbered, if any of the scrotes bother to turn up - http://twitpic.com/40ejl3/full

Big Steve says, 'hit them hard', but he can't make it lol


----------



## pk (Feb 16, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Awesome.


 
Can't answer that one? Bless...


----------



## Fingers (Feb 16, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I suspect they'll be vastly out numbered, if any of the scrotes bother to turn up - http://twitpic.com/40ejl3/full
> 
> Big Steve says, 'hit them hard', but he can't make it lol



The reason they intend to target the students is because they were fighting with the police and the EDL now claim they support the police, despite getting into numerous fights with them at demos and their leader serving an eighteen month jail sentence for assault on a po9lice woman who was trying to stop him beating up his wife.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 16, 2011)

To be honest, would be that stupid to turn up on the 26th?


----------



## revlon (Feb 16, 2011)

Fingers said:


> The reason they intend to target the students is because they were fighting with the police and the EDL now claim they support the police, despite getting into numerous fights with them at demos and their leader serving an eighteen month jail sentence for assault on a po9lice woman who was trying to stop him beating up his wife.


 
by the looks of it they're against students attacking innocent people because of inherited wealth  and the cenotaph. 

Not sure if that means don't attack people just because they have inherited wealth, or just because you students have inherited wealth doesn't mean you can attack innocent people. 

Which ever one it is, it's definitely studentophobic


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 16, 2011)

pk said:


> Can't answer that one? Bless...


 
Answer what you loon.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 16, 2011)

We could protest against rising oil prices in the middle of the pacific ocean.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 16, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/40ffji/full 

http://twitpic.com/40fex8

You can't make this shit up.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 16, 2011)

revlon said:


> by the looks of it they're against students attacking innocent people because of inherited wealth  and the cenotaph.
> 
> Not sure if that means don't attack people just because they have inherited wealth, or just because you students have inherited wealth doesn't mean you can attack innocent people.
> 
> Which ever one it is, it's definitely studentophobic


 
The Yaxley Lennon Speech (His media pals have dropped the Yaxley bit recently to help his image, no doubt) in Peterborough was exactly this. He tried to whip up shit and say that all student protestors are priviliged rich kids who have never worked a day in their lives. I doubt the EDL will be able to muster the same numbers they do on their anti muslim demos as this would be treading in different political waters. Whatsmore their analisis is dangerously wrong re who the fees affect. The EDL would be siding with the Tory government against ordinary people's rights to education. Affectivley supporting the oh so popular cuts...
Any EDL turning up may have to contend with the wrath of the entire might of inner London's hordes of school kids..Sort of a cross between St.Trinians and The wire....haha

The ideological motivation behind this attempted switch of attention needs to be questioned.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 16, 2011)

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/45294/edl-partners-far-right-us-jewish-group


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 16, 2011)

> Man killed by train after Dagenham demo



http://www.bdpost.co.uk/news/man_killed_by_train_after_dagenham_demo_1_803373


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 16, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/45294/edl-partners-far-right-us-jewish-group



Interseting how this jewish organization is considered to be a terrorist organization by Israel. How ironic is that?



> Mr Vancier is banned from entering Israel because of his allegiance to the late Rabbi Meir Kahane and his Kach party – outlawed in Israel in 1994 as “terrorist organisations.” The group now raises money for Jewish settlers in the West Bank.



I think these groups are so nuts that even if they had proof the BNP holocaust deniers were behind the EDL they would still want to help finance them on the belief that "my enemies enemies are my friends"...


----------



## treelover (Feb 16, 2011)

'You can't make this shit up.'

It may be laughable but as the EDL poster says there are going to be a lot of unhappy redundant ex service people soon, most will have nothing to do with the EDL, but a fair number will.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm not laughing.

A 'fair number' of 'unhappy redundant ex-service people', as you so put it, don't want anything to do with anything. The sad reality being serious mental health problems & homelessness.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 16, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://twitpic.com/40ffji/full
> 
> http://twitpic.com/40fex8
> 
> You can't make this shit up.


 
"The result will be riots and a civil war. Hopefully!"


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 16, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That is a nauseatingly smug piece. One thing surley more annoying than preening middle class lefties is preening middle class reactionaries getting on their high horse about them, making sweeping unqualified assumptions and invoking lazy stereotypes just to fill space.


 
i thought it had its moments to be honest . lets face it there are plenty on here who have followed a similar line with some of their remarks about EDL supporters.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 16, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'You can't make this shit up.'
> 
> It may be laughable but as the EDL poster says there are going to be a lot of unhappy redundant ex service people soon, most will have nothing to do with the EDL, but a fair number will.


 
why would they want to have anything to do with the EDL aside from the fact that they now can achieve the pk watermark for use of twitter, you tube and social networking sites.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 16, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> i thought it had its moments to be honest . lets face it there are plenty on here who have followed a similar line with some of their remarks about EDL supporters.


 
Aye. I've said before, the chav crap and demonising the white working class which goes on just entrenches support for the EDL/BNP. Wired are fuck nuts but on this they are bang on.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 16, 2011)

aye, i cringe at some of the comments on the anti-edl facebook groups.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Feb 16, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Interseting how this jewish organization is considered to be a terrorist organization by Israel. How ironic is that?
> 
> I think these groups are so nuts that even if they had proof the BNP holocaust deniers were behind the EDL they would still want to help finance them on the belief that "my enemies enemies are my friends"...



JTF aren't exclusively Jewish. They are also made up of what they call 'righteous gentiles' and also a conglomorate of über-rightwing settler-supporting groups, who are not necessarily Jewish groups. 

They don't support Israel. They support one narrow idea of Israel - and it's an idea of Israel that could not survive for long if it manifested.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 16, 2011)

On that point, I always wonder about these stories you hear about KKK members etc "converting to Judaism".


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 16, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> On that point, I always wonder about these stories you hear about KKK members etc "converting to Judaism".


 
what stories might those be?


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 16, 2011)

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=32201 stories like this, for example

I wonder how much they've really changed their whole mindset is all


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 16, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> aye, i cringe at some of the comments on the anti-edl facebook groups.


 
Innit. It's not just the facebook stuff, I've heard speakers from a _prominent national antifascist organisation_ say similar stuff about 'hard working immigrants' (as opposed to lazy white working class people, natch) and so forth.

_Oh, you can't mention class, you'll frighten the liberals._


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 16, 2011)

Would that be the same prominent anti-fash organisation that has david cameron as one of its founding signatories by any chance?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 16, 2011)

I think it is


----------



## ovaltina (Feb 17, 2011)

Dodgy goings on in Whitechapel...



> Stickers have been placed around London’s East End, declaring it a “gay-free zone”.
> 
> The messages, posted on buildings and lampposts close to Shoreditch gay nightspots George & Dragon and the Joiners Inn, say “Arise and warn. Gay free zone. Verily Allah is severe in punishment.”





> Jack Gilbert, the co-chair of LGBT forum Rainbow Hamlets, suggested that the stickers could be the work of the groups such as the English Defence League.
> 
> “We have evidence that they were very likely to have been produced by far-right sources in order to forment community tension,” he said.



From the comments under the linked piece, it looks like it's worked


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 17, 2011)

What evidence might he have i wonder?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 17, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Dodgy goings on in Whitechapel...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Even if members of the EDL did make those stickers. There is still obviously a lot of homophobia in that part of London.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 17, 2011)

The stickers are more likely the work of the locals than the EDL.


----------



## TopCat (Feb 17, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What evidence might he have i wonder?


 
Fuck all I would guess.


----------



## ovaltina (Feb 17, 2011)

There's no way of knowing who did it until the police catch somebody in the act. The piece linked above is a bit odd... the tip of comes from an unnamed local resident, whose quotes sound like they were lifted from a press release.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 17, 2011)

Reading some of them comments you can tell they are EDL members...


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 17, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=32201 stories like this, for example
> 
> I wonder how much they've really changed their whole mindset is all



It can happen, a very good friend of mine is an ex-member of the NF!


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 17, 2011)

aye, i know people too and im not saying it never happens at all  but im just a bit sceptical about the veracity of some of them!


----------



## revlon (Feb 18, 2011)

spiked = Antifascistophobes!

*EDL: a wet dream for purposeless lefties*
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10208/


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 18, 2011)

revlon said:


> spiked = Antifascistophobes!
> 
> *EDL: a wet dream for purposeless lefties*
> http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10208/



A similar tone to that ghastly O Neill piece in the torygraph, written by someone who is either a deliberate apologist or who has done very little research. I might have said it before on this thread, one thing worse than middle class lefties is the middle class reactionaries that slag them off.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2011)

Why are they worse? Any comments on the article?


----------



## revlon (Feb 18, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> A similar tone to that ghastly O Neill piece in the torygraph, written by someone who is either a deliberate apologist or who has done very little research. I might have said it before on this thread, one thing worse than middle class lefties is the middle class reactionaries that slag them off.


 
you don't recognise yourself in the last paragraph then?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2011)

Thing is, that article lands a good number of justified punches on the liberal left and the further left and their relation to the edl (whilst clumsily missing the opp to point out the commonalities in their _ugh a baseball cap_ approach) but reverts to the same sort of thing by assuming a) this is what w/c politics should look like therefore the edl represent w/c politics and by extension the w/c - and b) it does that by looking at formal declarations of the 'leadership'.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 18, 2011)

revlon said:


> you don't recognise yourself in the last paragraph then?


 
Really doesn't matter. I'm certainly not going to apologise for my politics or my class. Although some would cite me as middle class for my background I happen not to own the means of production in any regard.
And IME the most common type of person to sneer at the middle class left is the middle class right, implying not just self hatred on a class basis but also a nauseating presumption that the middle class really ought to be conservative or reactionary, which is plainly bollocks.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 18, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Thing is, that article lands a good number of justified punches on the liberal left and the further left and their relation to the edl (whilst clumsily missing the opp to point out the commonalities in their _ugh a baseball cap_ approach) but reverts to the same sort of thing by assuming a) this is what w/c politics should look like therefore the edl represent w/c politics and by extension the w/c - and b) it does that by looking at formal declarations of the 'leadership'.



The punches on the liberal left and further left are pretty standard fare. relying on the "leadership" declarations is plain lazy. The prime functions of this piece and O Neills efforts are a) preening. b) filling space.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2011)

It's a good last line (it necessarily means taking down spiked and their m/c networks too btw)



> The greatest threat to these liberties comes not from radical Islam, but the odious triad of smug observers, censorious left-wing groups and interfering politicians, who in equal measure both despise the EDL and are dearly thankful for its existence as it gives them a sense of purpose. Challenging these elitist views is something that would be worth taking to the streets for.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The punches on the liberal left and further left are pretty standard fare. relying on the "leadership" declarations is plain lazy. The prime functions of this piece and O Neills efforts are a) preening. b) filling space.


 
They may be standard fare (they're not though). What does that change? Are they wrong? Right? What?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 18, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> They may be standard fare (they're not though). What does that change? Are they wrong? Right? What?


 
What does it change? Nothing. Reactionary bloke writes self regarding reactionary piece. Some middle class left wingers are smug. I dont think that will be making the front pages, people of all classes and opinions can be smug. What does it change? Nothing. The idea that the "left" are somehow pleased that the EDL exist because it gives us some kind of raison d'etre is far fetched and made up. There are plenty of other raison d'etre. I can see how UAF/SWP might use it as a recruitment tool though, but again if it wasn't this issue it would be something else. The piece as a whole is no better written than many a post on here but quite a lot less qualified. The writer accuses people of being smug but ought to have the decency to recognise that there is a moat in his eye.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 18, 2011)

A mote. He's not crying.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 18, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> A mote. He's not crying.


 
LOL. Quelle balls up.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 18, 2011)

sp!ked/ex-RCP et al are fucking appalling. landing some justified punches on the liberals and cultural elements of the rest of the 'left' doesn't justify their total absence of material analysis. the fact he relies upon leadership quotes is more than just a coincidence. for the sp!ked lot everything revolves around abstract debates, 'ideas'. there's no pragmatic experience of the actual existing realities. hence why they end up taking their 'year zero' analysis of the left. when 'liberal enlightenment' values are under threat the best thing to do is to rush back and start spouting John Stuart Mill, apparently, completely forgetting about any theoretical developments of the late 19th/early 20th centuries. totally in their own little dreamworld of abstraction.

at the very best, a very limited amount to learn there.


----------



## revlon (Feb 19, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> sp!ked/ex-RCP et al are fucking appalling. landing some justified punches on the liberals and cultural elements of the rest of the 'left' doesn't justify their total absence of material analysis. the fact he relies upon leadership quotes is more than just a coincidence. for the sp!ked lot everything revolves around abstract debates, 'ideas'. there's no pragmatic experience of the actual existing realities. hence why they end up taking their 'year zero' analysis of the left. when 'liberal enlightenment' values are under threat the best thing to do is to rush back and start spouting John Stuart Mill, apparently, completely forgetting about any theoretical developments of the late 19th/early 20th centuries. totally in their own little dreamworld of abstraction.
> 
> at the very best, a very limited amount to learn there.


 
can you give us some of the material analysis you say is missing? So far people here have relied on random Faebook postings, youtube clips and yes quotes from leader tommy robinson to reinfrce the edl's badness credentials.

Regardless of the authors background and political niche what has he got wrong in the answering the questions he poses
- why is this happening now?
- why is the EDL making such a big splash? 
(rembering the sentence immediately following that question is: The EDL is being blown out of all proportion).


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 19, 2011)

revlon said:


> can you give us some of the material analysis you say is missing? So far people here have relied on random Faebook postings, youtube clips and yes quotes from leader tommy robinson to reinfrce the edl's badness credentials.
> 
> Regardless of the authors background and political niche what has he got wrong in the answering the questions he poses
> - why is this happening now?
> ...


 
The author is right about the danger of blowing it out of proportion. The piece is not as bad as O Neills turgid torygraph crap. But overall it is still fairly lazy and cliched. The EDL are not making that big a splash. They provide a lightening rod for racists and dupes while the BNP really are not doing well at all. But they can't get beyond a certain point, not least because they lack substantial analysis, can't control the nazis and are woeful when it comes to meaningful debate. The debacle over their ties to zionist terrorism this week highlights the paucity of political savvy which will, touch wood, ensure they dont get too much further in their ambitions. Several hundred people swaggering around shouting simplistic drivel and singing badly can only get so far. I'm sure it's fun for some of the young uns and very sad that it is the first engagement with politics they are likely to have had - a big failing for the left for sure. But the movement cant go beyond that without revealing even more the far right instincts at it's heart. We still need to keep an eye on them, to counter demo in order to stop them marching. But we should primarily be building the anti cuts and anti banks movement, both of which have far more meaning and resonance with "ordinary" people than anything this semi-literate rabble will ever have to contribute.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Feb 19, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> But we should primarily be building the anti cuts and anti banks movement, both of which have far more meaning and resonance with "ordinary" people than anything this semi-literate rabble will ever have to contribute.


 
Thats hard to disagree with and even as somebody who would certainly not be included in your 'we' this makes sense on all sorts of levels, not least because many on the right are also hardly the biggest fans of bankers either at the moment. (in terms of the 'cuts' I am firmly of the school of thought which beleives that savings can, and should, be made but that it should focus primarily on making real efficency savings as opposed to actually cutting many of the services under threat) 

I see the EDL as being part of this whole 'identiy politics' diversion that our political processes have been diverted down for two long and that hopefully things might actually switch back to being about what really matters as opposed to gay/ethnic rights and so on. Its been a dead end for the left and essentially they have become increasingly isolated because of it.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 19, 2011)

Plod need to let people like this march unprotected!

http://twitpic.com/41gyy1/full


----------



## mancboy (Feb 19, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Plod need to let people like this march unprotected!
> 
> http://twitpic.com/41gyy1/full


 
According to his facebook page, one of the films he likes is This Is England 

Shane Meadows must be well pleased.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 19, 2011)

There isn't a face palm big enough to sum that one up.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 19, 2011)

Why do fash types always like films like This is England and American History X etc?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 19, 2011)

Ever EDL member has this is England in their film likes.... it's beyond facepalm.....


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 19, 2011)

EDL start a month long demo at KFC today, this is how the last one went.....


----------



## Serotonin (Feb 19, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Ever EDL member has this is England in their film likes.... it's beyond facepalm.....


 
I assume they turn it off before the end and have a wank.


----------



## BigTom (Feb 20, 2011)

EDL bank accounts frozen over money laundering allegations

http://www.luton-dunstable.co.uk/News/EDL-chiefs-bank-accounts-frozen-in-cash-inquiry.htm


----------



## audiotech (Feb 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Thing is, that article lands a good number of justified punches on the liberal left and the further left and their relation to the edl (whilst clumsily missing the opp to point out the commonalities in their _ugh a baseball cap_ approach) but reverts to the same sort of thing by assuming a) this is what w/c politics should look like therefore the edl represent w/c politics and by extension the w/c - and b) it does that by looking at formal declarations of the 'leadership'.


 

Th EDL working class? They are reactionary little Englanders, with a tory bent


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2011)

Jesus wept.


----------



## revlon (Feb 20, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Th EDL working class? They are reactionary little Englanders, with a tory bent


 
_petite bourgeoisie_, mate. The natural constituent of the fascist. White van drivers, office clerks, petty thieves, hard drug pursuers.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2011)

Next few lines does fit at least one of the recent leadership...


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 20, 2011)

revlon said:


> _petite bourgeoisie_, mate. The natural constituent of the fascist. White van drivers, office clerks, petty thieves, hard drug pursuers.


 
Oh lord.

'Office clerks' are PB? What's a 'hard drug pursuer'?

And they call this anti-fascism.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2011)

It's a lyric mate.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 20, 2011)

Oh. Ooops.


----------



## revlon (Feb 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Next few lines does fit at least one of the recent leadership...


 
 a full house i think


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 20, 2011)

revlon said:


> _petite bourgeoisie_, mate. The natural constituent of the fascist. White van drivers, office clerks, petty thieves, hard drug pursuers.


 
aren't the last two more lumpenproletarian  than petite bourgeoise? 

Regardless of which class interest they may end up contributing to the idea that the EDL are petite bourgeois in composition is as laughable as saying that the anarchist and Trot left are working class.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 20, 2011)

In my experience, working class people can be anarchists, trots, neo-liberals or even members of the edl, bnp or nf.

They don't fit neatly into any box.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The author is right about the danger of blowing it out of proportion. The piece is not as bad as O Neills turgid torygraph crap. But overall it is still fairly lazy and cliched. The EDL are not making that big a splash. They provide a lightening rod for racists and dupes while the BNP really are not doing well at all. But they can't get beyond a certain point, not least because they lack substantial analysis, can't control the nazis and are woeful when it comes to meaningful debate. The debacle over their ties to zionist terrorism this week highlights the paucity of political savvy which will, touch wood, ensure they dont get too much further in their ambitions. Several hundred people swaggering around shouting simplistic drivel and singing badly can only get so far. I'm sure it's fun for some of the young uns and very sad that it is the first engagement with politics they are likely to have had - a big failing for the left for sure. But the movement cant go beyond that without revealing even more the far right instincts at it's heart. We still need to keep an eye on them, to counter demo in order to stop them marching. But we should primarily be building the anti cuts and anti banks movement, both of which have far more meaning and resonance with "ordinary" people than anything this semi-literate rabble will ever have to contribute.


 
are the EDL really a lightening rod? And is the reason why they can't get beyond a certain point  really down to 'lack substantial analysis, can't control the nazis and are woeful when it comes to meaningful debate'?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 20, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> In my experience, working class people can be anarchists, trots, neo-liberals or even members of the edl, bnp or nf.


 
can be yes , in the case of the first two allowed to be ?probably not for long in most cases


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 20, 2011)

Allowed to by whom?

Perhaps they wouldn't be welcome in the swp or the anarchist federation but that wouldn't alter their political views or prevent them from organising with like-minded folk.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 20, 2011)

You're forgetting that the working class all have one monolthic thought process C66


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm probably the most middle-class member of the SP that I know. It's not true in my experience, although in the SWP where their recruiting strategies are a bit different I could see how this could be the case, but years ago when I was considering joining the SWP one of the most active members where I lived worked stacking shelves at Tesco's. Im not saying every trot is working class as that's just stupid, but saying that almost no trots are is equally daft and Im sure discokermit or someone will be along in a sec to back me up


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

This from Orwells "looking back on the Spanish War" essay is interesting reading in the context of some recent posts. How much of it holds true today, if ever it were true?

_
In the long run--it is important to remember that it is only in the long run--the working class
remains the most reliable enemy of Fascism, simply because the
working-class stands to gain most by a decent reconstruction of society.
Unlike other classes or categories, it can't be permanently bribed.

To say this is not to idealize the working class. In the long struggle
that has followed the Russian Revolution it is the manual workers who
have been defeated, and it is impossible not to feel that it was their
own fault. Time after time, in country after country, the organized
working-class movements have been crushed by open, illegal violence, and
their comrades abroad, linked to themin theoretical solidarity, have
simply looked on and done nothing; and underneath this, secret cause of
many betrayals, has lain the fact that between white and coloured workers
there is not even lip-service to solidarity. Who can believe in the
class-conscious international proletariat after the events of the past
ten years? To the British working class the massacre of their comrades in
Vienna, Berlin, Madrid, or wherever it might be seemed less interesting
and less important than yesterday's football match. Yet this does not
alter the fact that the working class will go on struggling against
Fascism after the others have caved in. One feature of the Nazi conquest
of France was the astonishing defections among the intelligentsia,
including some of the left-wing political intelligentsia. The
intelligentsia are the people who squeal loudest against Fascism, and yet
a respectable proportion of them collapse into defeatism when the pinch
comes. They are far-sighted enough to see the odds against them, and
moreoever they can be bribed--for it is evident that the Nazis think it
worth while to bribe intellectuals. With the working class it is the
other way about. Too ignorant to see through the trick that is being
played on them, they easily swallow the promises of Fascism, yet sooner
or later they always take up the struggle again. They must do so, because
in their own bodies they always discover that the promises of Fascism
cannot be fulfilled. To win over the working class permanently, the
Fascists would have to raise the general standard of living, which they
are unable and probably unwilling to do. The struggle of the working
class is like the growth of a plant. The plant is blind and stupid, but
it knows enough to keep pushing upwards towards the light, and it will do
this in the face of endless discouragements._


----------



## revlon (Feb 21, 2011)

are you posting it in support or against the spiked article?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

revlon said:


> are you posting it in support or against the spiked article?


 
Neither. just wondered what people thought of propositions such as the Working Class being the best long term hope against fascism and the fact that they "can't be bribed".

Obviously a lot has changed in the last 70 years anyhow. I think the working classes can be bribed, essentially by the prospect of joining the petty bourgoise. But these days such social mobility is on the wane.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

neither. Just wondered what people thought of the propositions

1) That the working class is the best long term hope for anti fascism

2) That the working class can't be bribed

Obviously, much has changed in the 7 decades since it was written. I think (1) might well be true but have strong doubts on (2)


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Neither. just wondered what people thought of propositions such as the Working Class being the best long term hope against fascism and the fact that they "can't be bribed".
> 
> Obviously a lot has changed in the last 70 years anyhow. I think the working classes can be bribed, essentially by the prospect of joining the petty bourgoise. But these days such social mobility is on the wane.


 
Bribed by the prospect of opening a shop?


----------



## revlon (Feb 21, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> neither. Just wondered what people thought of the propositions
> 
> 1) That the working class is the best long term hope for anti fascism
> 
> ...


 
okay fair play. 

These are the sentences that immediately sprung out:

_To the British working class the massacre of their comrades in Vienna, Berlin, Madrid, or wherever it might be seemed less interesting and less important than yesterday's football match. _

_The intelligentsia are the people who squeal loudest against Fascism_

_With the working class it is the other way about. Too ignorant to see through the trick that is being played on them, they easily swallow the promises of Fascism,_

Given fascism is violent ideology against the working class i'd say they would be the only ones in a position to defeat it. Just as long as they've got a few good lefty intellectal texts under their belts to help them along


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Bribed by the prospect of opening a shop?


 
I was thinking along the lines of council house sales, but yep perhaps small business too. That is to speak more of the economic aspects of class than the cultural but anyhow...even though social mobility is down in recent years it is still probably well up on Orwells day. This is reflected partly in how there is so much resistance to the notion of raising higher tax rates, even though most would never have to pay them.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

revlon said:


> okay fair play.
> 
> These are the sentences that immediately sprung out:
> 
> ...



On the other hand the BNP and EDL are forever wibbling about their working class credentials. Obviously they mean white working class and are as such demeaning class politics, of which many of them are plain ignorant. But they are happy to co-opt the lingo and sentiment, making their working class dupes even more pathetic.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 21, 2011)

There is a new Youtube video up on the BNPs revitalised youth section -its now called Resistance. During the video in which the newly media tutored  leader speaks amongst the 'when I took this over things were in a mess , that's why I decided what was needed was a complete restructure' is an attack on the EDL for being gay tolerant and supporting multiracialism. Step backward for the BNP in my books if they want to recruit from the EDL.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

FWIW, below is the EDL code of concuct avec forward. It carries a high "weird alert" warning:



_Due to the mighty progression of the English Defence League over the past year we have had to put certain things in place. The new RO structure is now up and running and although there have been a few teething problems seems to be starting to work well. The leadership now feel it is time to introduce a small code of conduct that it expects members to follow. The below code of conduct has been drafted by the EDL leadership and it is expected that all true members would agree with it and adhere to it. All such movements have a similar code that they are expected to follow. The code of conduct is applicable at all levels of the EDL from leadership down. Should any members disagreewith the code then this can be for no other reason than they want to destroy the EDL movement and halt its rapid progression, and are therefore not welcome. If you are unhappy with certain factors of the CoC then feel free to raise these with your division leaders and Regional Organisers for discussion.



1) No member shall act to the detriment of the E D L movement / organisation and bring its members into disrepute. In particular, members shall at all times, refrain from Public or private attacks on the competence, reputation and honour of any other members of the E D L movement of organisation. Any threats of physical or verbal abuse will be met by the removal of said party/s from the movement if found to have any substance of truth.



2) Mutual Assistance. Members shall assist each other in every practical way. Members shall conduct themselves respectfully towards their fellow members and the E D L movement. Members are reminded that any information which may come to them in the course of their work / endeavours is privileged information and WILL be treated with confidentiality, and are asked to communicate with a third party without authority. They shall require those assisting them in their work to be similarly bound. No member shall disclose at anytime privileged or personal information about other members.



3) In making Public statements ain in their contact with the media, members must always be vigilant about the fact they are E D L and anything that they may convey to the media will be taken as a formal statement and construed as a representation of the entire E D L movement, one should act accordingly with the utmost integrity, dignity and above all professionalism.



4) No member of the E D L shall make any personal gains from any information that has come to them due to their work / endeavours for, or on behalf of the E D L movement. No E D L member mat accept monies from any parties whatsoever during the carrying out of their work / endeavours for the E D L. Excluded will be personal expenses or monies paid out by members personally.



5) All members must adhere to the correct chain of command, this must be observed at ALL times. Any complaints, queries of problems MUST be filtered through the correct channels i.e. division leaders & regional organisers, at no point mat any member supersede this chain of command. If a complaint is made about another’s member’s conduct through these channels in no way shall anyone intimidate or retaliate against that person/s that has made the complaint.



6) Any person/s found/proven to be in breach of this constitution would face a potential disciplinary hearing consisting of all the relevant regional organisers and division leaders as well as leadership. A decision would then be made on the person/s future with the E D L. Leadership reserve the right to have the final resolution in the said matter.



7) All members signing & agreeing to this said document also swear allegiance to the ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE, to its members, leadership and infrastructure present and future. Any person/s found committing any acts of treachery knowingly and contravening this Constitution will be disciplined according to the Constitution, if found guilty, removed from the E D L organisation with immediate and forever boycotted from and all contact from all E D L members and the E D L movement itself in whole._


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## The39thStep (Feb 21, 2011)

do the anarchists have this sort of code of conduct?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

All that and they claim they have no membership..... duh

and i made it on to Tommy Robinsons friends list now


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

Lol.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

Professionalism lol, I know fash are into "corporatism" but that sounds more like some kind of corporate mission statement .


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 21, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> do the anarchists have this sort of code of conduct?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

And looking at Tommy Robinson’s friends list I think gives a clearer picture of the numbers of members; if I was in the EDL I would have him on my friends list.

It's at around 3700 at the moment and I’m sure there are a few that don't have/use facebook.  But the numbers they like to band about are the "likes" on the facebook page, which a massive amount of will be people who don't care and anti-EDL who get banned for telling them to fuck off.

so from the 79,000 facebook "likes" and the fact they can't seem to get past the 2k mark at demos is really telling. 

also they now want to charge 67p a week for the web forum, if even half the "likes" paid that, Tommy would be minted


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

They want to charge for the forum access?


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

Good luck with that, tommy.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

yeah they want people to pay to keep the website up

I don't think you have to pay, but they are where asking for 67p a week or something to keep the website running... lol

you can just see working out how much money they could make if 79,000 idiots helped the cuase with only 67p a week.....  That's a lot of chang


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## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

It will be more like 79.


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## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

Well that a G a week good start


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## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

> EDL chief’s bank accounts frozen in cash inquiry
> 
> EXCLUSIVE BY SOPHIE SCOTT
> Luton On Sunday
> ...



So working class he "bought a couple of properties"


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## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

Innit?


----------



## audiotech (Feb 21, 2011)

'EDL supporters were 'intent on disorder'

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/news/article/3675/edl-supporters-were-intent-on-disorder


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## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

> a number of public order offences are being investigated.



i liked the fact they went to protect the BNP lol


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## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

I thought they were against the BNP


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

yeah but no but yeah but no..... oh i duno..... what day is it?


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I thought they were against the BNP



Showing their true colours by offering to assist fellow 'patriots', I suppose.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

I thought that every EDL member that was in the BNP would be kicked out because the EDL hate fascism as much as they hate islam - sorry, radical islam


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

islamisismismism?


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

yeah


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## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

_but they burned a swastika!_


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## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

but only taken in it's 7th century barbaric form tho yeah?


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I thought that every EDL member that was in the BNP would be kicked out because the EDL hate fascism as much as they hate islam - sorry, radical islam



They're a confused bunch when it comes to ideologies. They're quite clearly leaning towards fascism or, at the very least, extreme nationalism but haven't done any reading...apart from the Daily Star that is.


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## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

Yeah. The EDL are a human rights group, they're doing it for the muslims' own good.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah. The EDL are a human rights group, they're doing it for the muslims' own good.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

Don't believe me? Even their website says so! 


> The English Defence League (EDL) is a human rights organisation that was founded in the wake of the shocking actions of a small group of Muslim extremists who, at a homecoming parade in Luton, openly mocked the sacrifices of our service personnel without any fear of censure. Although these actions were certainly those of a minority, we believe that they reflect other forms of religiously-inspired intolerance and barbarity that are thriving amongst certain sections of the Muslim population in Britain: including, but not limited to, the denigration and oppression of women, the molestation of young children, the committing of so-called honour killings, homophobia, anti-Semitism, and continued support for those responsible for terrorist atrocities.
> 
> Whilst we must always protect against the unjust assumption that all Muslims are complicit in or somehow responsible for these crimes, we must not be afraid to speak freely about these issues. This is why the EDL will continue to work to protect the inalienable rights of all people to protest against radical Islam’s encroachment into the lives of non-Muslims.
> 
> We also recognise that Muslims themselves are frequently the main victims of some Islamic traditions and practices. The Government should protect the individual human rights of members of British Muslims. It should ensure that they can openly criticise Islamic orthodoxy, challenge Islamic leaders without fear of retribution, receive full equality before the law (including equal rights for Muslim women), and leave Islam if they see fit, without fear of censure.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> On the other hand the BNP and EDL are forever wibbling about their working class credentials. Obviously they mean white working class and are as such demeaning class politics, of which many of them are plain ignorant. But they are happy to co-opt the lingo and sentiment, making their working class dupes even more pathetic.


 
It's a very big mistake to see all members of the far-right as stupid. tho some of them undoubtedly are


----------



## revlon (Feb 21, 2011)

> EDL chief’s bank accounts frozen in cash inquiry
> 
> EXCLUSIVE BY SOPHIE SCOTT
> Luton On Sunday
> ...



wasn't that an epsiode of father ted?


----------



## revlon (Feb 21, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Showing their true colours by offering to assist fellow 'patriots', I suppose.


 
more likely to have an easy pop at the enemy


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2011)

But being so thick they didnt think it would look bad.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> It's a very big mistake to see all members of the far-right as stupid. tho some of them undoubtedly are


 
The dangerous ones are the bright minority, but fascism seems to both require and acquire a rank and file of dimmo dupes. I've seen quite a lot of the edl facebook stuff, it's literally the thickest political debating I have ever seen.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

a lot of lefties are also really thick tho - including me at times lol , we just dont notice because we agree with them. Plenty of fash re reallly intelligent - ok, their social skills may be a bit lacking, but that didn't stop any fascist leaders in the past.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

Intelligence has nothing to do with social weight.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

yep, exactly. and thankfully the EDL don't seem to have much of that at the moment.

on that note i was wondering whether you could point me to any studies that show a breakdown of who is involved in these fascist/far-right movements by class, occupation, etc? I am thinking about writing something about it.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Intelligence has nothing to do with social weight.


 
That's sadly true, if anything the relationship is inverse.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

Also if you have anything on gender and whether the incidence of women involved in the far right has increased (or whatever) over time that'd also be really interesting.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That's sadly true, if anything the relationship is inverse.


 
1) How could it possibly be the inverse? What would that even look like?

2) No it's not you twat - you've just disagreed with me.

Both answer's good.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> yep, exactly. and thankfully the EDL don't seem to have much of that at the moment.
> 
> on that note i was wondering whether you could point me to any studies that show a breakdown of who is involved in these fascist/far-right movements by class, occupation, etc? I am thinking about writing something about it.



I'd be a bit suprised if anything substantially academic has filtered through about the EDL just yet, but it will come sooner or later. I did have something detailed on BNP voters in the NW but it is quite a different set of characteristics, certainly in terms of age (BNP supporters tend to be older than EDL in my estimation)

NF was before my time and I was suprised to read that they were more like the C2 bracket. EDL are distinctly D in my estimation.

As much as we can slag them and the far right off, these are of course the people the left let get away, but Labour have to take a lot of the blame for that. Not that Labour are "left", but their move right created the vacuum that no one else filled till Johnny Nazi showed up.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> yep, exactly. and thankfully the EDL don't seem to have much of that at the moment.
> 
> on that note i was wondering whether you could point me to any studies that show a breakdown of who is involved in these fascist/far-right movements by class, occupation, etc? I am thinking about writing something about it.


 
Talk on this later


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I
> 
> NF was before my time and I was suprised to read that they were more like the C2 bracket. EDL are distinctly D in my estimation.



What marks do you give yourself taffboy?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 21, 2011)

Astounding snobbery here, which we had with the BNP and now the EDL. Our higher IQ will win out, which of course led to the political big brains bullying Griffin on QuestionTime  with the consequences that followed.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What marks do you give yourself taffboy?


 
At the moment I'm strictly E but have bobbled around from B-ish downwards for most of my adult life. It aint "marks" as well you know, just the sort of socio economic categorising that would turn up in the kind of research FW is on the lookout for.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> 1) How could it possibly be the inverse? What would that even look like?
> 
> 2) No it's not you twat - you've just disagreed with me.
> 
> Both answer's good.


 
The relationship could be inverse in that dim arguments can carry more social weight. That often happens or we wouldnt be in the economic quagmire we are in.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The relationship could be inverse in that dim arguments can carry more social weight. That often happens or we wouldnt be in the economic quagmire we are in.


 
Who mentioned _arguments_. Have you proven or disproved your claim with this post?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Astounding snobbery here, which we had with the BNP and now the EDL. Our higher IQ will win out, which of course led to the political big brains bullying Griffin on QuestionTime  with the consequences that followed.


 
I dont think any higher IQ will win out neccessarily. You only have to look at history to see that could be a folorn hope. The Griffin episode was worsened more by the hype than the intellectual snobbery, though looking back on it now it has been superceded by other events. The BNP have failed to capitalise on various things that could have gone their way. The EDL have picked up the slack to an extent, but are also comming up against some pretty serious limitations.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Who mentioned _arguments_. Have you proven or disproved your claim with this post?


 
Blimey, it was just a passing thought. But if you want solid evidence that silly ideologies can get a lot of social traction I would point you in the direction of history.


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## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

> neccessarily



You clueless bottle green cunt


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You clueless bottle green cunt


 
mysoginist language, what a let down. I dont know what you are disputing, I suppose you are just being your normal prickly contrarian self


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 21, 2011)

First off the logical hole you dug yourself into above, secondly, your snobby approach to humanity


----------



## emanymton (Feb 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Also if you have anything on gender and whether the incidence of women involved in the far right has increased (or whatever) over time that'd also be really interesting.


 
Is butchers your research assistant?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 21, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> yep, exactly. and thankfully the EDL don't seem to have much of that at the moment.
> 
> on that note i was wondering whether you could point me to any studies that show a breakdown of who is involved in these fascist/far-right movements by class, occupation, etc? I am thinking about writing something about it.



Did you ever see a list of members and financiers of Mosleys New Party and later the BUF, titled aristocrats and big capitalists as well as a rake of MPs.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Talk on this later


 
No worries dude


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Astounding snobbery here, which we had with the BNP and now the EDL. Our higher IQ will win out, which of course led to the political big brains bullying Griffin on QuestionTime  with the consequences that followed.


 
yep


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

emanymton said:


> Is butchers your research assistant?


 
nah was just wondering cos he seems to know a lot more about this than i do!


----------



## killer b (Feb 21, 2011)

what were the consequences of griffin being bullied on QT?


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

None iirc, that's the point - it didn't discredit the BNP or did anything to stop their growth. and that sort of establishmeent "anti-fascism" often has exactly the opposite effect to what's intended, for reasons that have been gone into countless times.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 21, 2011)

the bnp seem to have reached a bit of a impasse, but not because of paxman or whoever lecturing them.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> First off the logical hole you dug yourself into above, secondly, your snobby approach to humanity


 
Don't see the hole sorry.

It stems, I'm pretty sure, from your correct statement that 

"Intelligence has nothing to do with social weight"

I outlined how impact of ideas can be easily be in inverse proportion to how intelligent they were. Stupidity often triumphs in this world and I'd be suprised if you could strongly counter that arguement. 

Note that although you have accused me of logical misfure while possibly having misfired yourself I haven't sunk to vapidly insulting you.

I am not snobby about individuals, I take as I find. But the generality of how the world is doesn't create a fantastic impression. Things such as fundmentalist capitalism and eco destruction dont just come from nowhere. The truth is often ugly. Better to be called a "snob" than pretend things are groovy when they clearly aint.

You are the one needlessly calling names and frequently casting judgement hither and thither. Spelling it correctly this time I spy a mote in thine eye.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 22, 2011)

It's quite simple. Nationalist politics and its adherents may seem like knuckle dragging cave men to your average soul, but if they're knocking on doors and listening to the concerns of folk in white w/c communities - and are willing to address their needs - then the folk in those communities may be willing to support them as no other fucker appears to be listening. And you don't need to attain a PHD in Marxism to understand that.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

green snob said:
			
		

> But the generality of how the world is doesn't create a fantastic impression



Fuck off then


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 22, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> It's quite simple. Nationalist politics and its adherents may seem like knuckle dragging cave men to your average soul, but if they're knocking on doors and listening to the concerns of folk in white w/c communities - and are willing to address their needs - then the folk in those communities may be willing to support them as no other fucker appears to be listening. And you don't need to attain a PHD in Marxism to understand that.



Agreed, the left in britain, or what should have been the "street left" have buried themselves in the comfort of the University canteen never to be seen outside unless it's to recruit more studenty types for the small pond atmosphere of continual meetings and frantic activity with no end product. The State couldn't have invented them.

On this note, Can the right to work movement serve as a better outlet for frustrations among disenfranchised wwc youth who might otherwise be attracted to EDL activism?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

Not to those kids no. It's not aimed at them. Different market


----------



## revlon (Feb 22, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> It's quite simple. Nationalist politics and its adherents may seem like knuckle dragging cave men to your average soul, but if they're knocking on doors and listening to the concerns of folk in white w/c communities - and are willing to address their needs - then the folk in those communities may be willing to support them as no other fucker appears to be listening. And you don't need to attain a PHD in Marxism to understand that.


 
guess which lefty website the article below appeared on:

David Cameron has turned his “big society” trick into an excuse to justify the mass privatisation of almost all remaining public services such as the Royal Mail, schools and even local authorities. In an article in the Daily Telegraph newspaper, Mr Cameron said that the transformation from a “big state” into a “big society” would mean that services could be transformed without the need for repeated legislation. The only areas he identified as exempt from privatisation were the national security services (the police, intelligence services and army) and the judiciary. These services were exempted only because not even they could possibly be made profitable in any sense of the word.

The pledge to create a “big society” has however now been revealed as nothing but an excuse to turn the rest of the civil service over to the profit-driven private sector. The claim that privatisation was lead to a better service is exactly the same “reasoning” provided by previous Tory and Labour regimes when the railways and household utilities were handed over to the private sector. Since then, without exception, service levels have declined and prices have increased.

In October last year, ConDem Business Secretary Vince Cable launched the Postal Services Bill which will privatise Royal Mail. At the time, Mr Cable said that private buyers will be allowed to own up to 90 percent of Royal Mail, while the Post Office may be mutualised. In addition, he made it clear that the government would not oppose a foreign company buying up the Royal Mail. The Dutch Post Office was one of the first to be privatised, and is a yardstick by which all such undertakings are measured.

According to an earlier report, privatisation in Holland led to the closure of nearly 90 percent of the country's post offices. In addition, complaints about the reliability of Holland's privatised post are widespread. The Dutch Post Office was also one of the first to adopt EU directives and allow new companies to compete in its postal market, a move which was supposed to increase competition and lead to better services. In reality, the complete opposite has occurred. New firms which pay far below the minimum wage have cherry-picked the most profitable routes, and have brought the Dutch Post Office’s finances to its knees.

There is no reason to think that the situation will be any different in Britain, and this is only the post office sector. It can only be speculated upon what will happen to schools and health services, to name but two. But at least Mr Cameron has finally come clean with what he manes by the “big society.”

Previously, the naïve might have thought that he meant that everyone would have to somehow “work together” to make society better. Now however, it is clear that what he actually intends is to sell the very last of the state assets in a privatised free-for-all which will make all previous privatisations seem like child’s play.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 22, 2011)

Some in The EDL mow coming out to defend the BNP in Barnsley?



http://uaf.org.uk/2011/02/barnsley-antifascists-march-as-edls-links-to-bnp-exposed/


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2011)

revlon said:


> guess which lefty website the article below appeared on:
> 
> David Cameron has turned his “big society” trick into an excuse to justify the mass privatisation of almost all remaining public services such as the Royal Mail, schools and even local authorities. In an article in the Daily Telegraph newspaper, Mr Cameron said that the transformation from a “big state” into a “big society” would mean that services could be transformed without the need for repeated legislation. The only areas he identified as exempt from privatisation were the national security services (the police, intelligence services and army) and the judiciary. These services were exempted only because not even they could possibly be made profitable in any sense of the word.
> 
> ...


 
BNP knuckle draggers?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Fuck off then


 
Guaranteed to win any argument is that line. Reduced to mysoginy and vapid insults at the drop ofa hat intcha? And why? because I said there is a lot wrong with the world and that humans should take some responsibility, and rather than speak to that you thought you'd sink into bollocks stereotyping of the opinions of a person you've never met.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> It's quite simple. Nationalist politics and its adherents may seem like knuckle dragging cave men to your average soul, but if they're knocking on doors and listening to the concerns of folk in white w/c communities - and are willing to address their needs - then the folk in those communities may be willing to support them as no other fucker appears to be listening. And you don't need to attain a PHD in Marxism to understand that.


 
In fact the amount of wards where the BNP are active is pretty miniscule as a %. Community activists who happen to be left wing are far more prevalent, though they often don't do it in the name of a party.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Some in The EDL mow coming out to defend the BNP in Barnsley?
> 
> 
> 
> http://uaf.org.uk/2011/02/barnsley-antifascists-march-as-edls-links-to-bnp-exposed/





Thanks for that. Mustn't criticise their lack of intelligence though. That would be snobbish and wouldn't do. Maybe we should try and understand their concerns and motivations or something.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

This one is perhaps a bit ruder than some but the constant struggle with the language is typical.

But dont slag off the stupidity please gang. Don't be a snob. Understand that he may be speaking about issues that concern real people when he wants "nigger shaggers" kids to die of "cot deth".

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?fbid=501612971291&set=o.145019135549768&theater


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> In fact the amount of wards where the BNP are active is pretty miniscule as a %. Community activists who happen to be left wing are far more prevalent, though they often don't do it in the name of a party.


 
The level of 'connect' though with working class communities  is few and far between. IWCA, HSG and then BNP spring to mind.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Wouldn't want to be snobbish about this one either. Need to speak to his concerns innit. His spelling is better than some though.

_fucking joke the lot of you,when your all bending over getting bummed with a knife to your throat being forced to excet allah or die you fucking retarted cowards will still be there with eyes closed hands held saying maybe it will still be ok,enjoy being raped by your goatfucking friends im sure it will all work out for you all in the end remember you shirtlifters and carpet munchers there is a place for you in ISLAM ,and for you tree huggers im sure if you request to be bound to a tree before your raped and beheading eyes closed hands held 
_


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> The level of 'connect' though with working class communities  is few and far between. IWCA, HSG and then BNP spring to mind.


 
People towards the left of no party are many times more than all those put together. If you counted Labour supporters that consider themselves leftwing, and people who work on local environmental and community stuff that lot would be buried in numerical terms.


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## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> This one is perhaps a bit ruder than some but the constant struggle with the language is typical.
> 
> But dont slag off the stupidity please gang. Don't be a snob. Understand that he may be speaking about issues that concern real people when he wants "nigger shaggers" kids to die of "cot deth".
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?fbid=501612971291&set=o.145019135549768&theater


 
 I don't know if you read some of the work that mathew goodwin and others did on researching the BNP but one of the things that stood out was the BNPs large investment in producing a political cadre. In fact griffins advice was not to recruit the bloke who hated the pakis next door but someone who could understand the totality of their politics. 

If you take the piece that Revlon posted you can see why you might get a few cheap laughs but ultimately you are ploughing the wrong furrow


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## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> People towards the left of no party are many times more than all those put together. If you counted Labour supporters that consider themselves leftwing, and people who work on local environmental and community stuff that lot would be buried in numerical terms.


 
very wierd and speculative accounting there taff and I am not sure whether considering ones self 'left wing' ( means all things to all people) makes anyone more enviromental or community based. The churches for example are full of people like that as are the rotary club, Roundtable etc as of course are the Lib dems


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> I don't know if you read some of the work that mathew goodwin and others did on researching the BNP but one of the things that stood out was the BNPs large investment in producing a political cadre. In fact griffins advice was not to recruit the bloke who hated the pakis next door but someone who could understand the totality of their politics.
> 
> If you take the piece that Revlon posted you can see why you might get a few cheap laughs but ultimately you are ploughing the wrong furrow


 
I know what the BNP are about in this regard. Haven't seen that specific research though. I also know that the far right have some brains in the upper echelons, people who are probably far more cynical about the less savvy than I am. In the 2009 Euro Elections the BNP propaganda in my region was by far the most populist in anti-banker rhetoric, they make some intelligent choices.

But tis thread and my comments are more in reference to the EDL, The rank and file dupes are too often genuinelly as stupid as they are bitter and twisted. They may have legit concerns about housing, employment, their environment may be shit. But they aint protesting about that. They are swaggering about singing "allah is a paedo" out of tune. And anyone who says that they are dim can fuck off, according to certain high minded self appointed ajudicants of what it means to be into working class politics.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> very wierd and speculative accounting there taff and I am not sure whether considering ones self 'left wing' ( means all things to all people) makes anyone more enviromental or community based. The churches for example are full of people like that as are the rotary club, Roundtable etc as of course are the Lib dems


 
Oh that's all true as well if you want to broaden it out like that. I'm certainly not being speculative. How many wards are IWCA active in nationwide? In the predominantly working class city I live in the BNP are active in under 20% of wards, by active I dont mean much more than putting up a candidate. I doubt they doorknock or leaflet more than 3 wards, and I doubt even more that the doorknocking is very widespread.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I know what the BNP are about in this regard. Haven't seen that specific research though. I also know that the far right have some brains in the upper echelons, people who are probably far more cynical about the less savvy than I am. In the 2009 Euro Elections the BNP propaganda in my region was by far the most populist in anti-banker rhetoric, they make some intelligent choices.
> 
> But tis thread and my comments are more in reference to the EDL, The rank and file dupes are too often genuinelly as stupid as they are bitter and twisted. They may have legit concerns about housing, employment, their environment may be shit. But they aint protesting about that. They are swaggering about singing "allah is a paedo" out of tune. And anyone who says that they are dim can fuck off, according to certain high minded self appointed ajudicants of what it means to be into working class politics.


 You have a BNP MEP representing you.There's also one next door. How well do you feel your _they're all knuckle draggers_ approach has gone so far?


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## frogwoman (Feb 22, 2011)

Someone I know was recently saying that "the left" shouldn't try to recruit people who were potentially attracted to the BNP and EDL as "they weren't working class", and so not the sort of people we should try to attract anyway.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You have a BNP MEP representing you.There's also one next door. How well do you feel your _they're all knuckle draggers_ approach has gone so far?


 
I didn't say they were all knuckledraggers, but I know you're not liable to let facts in the way of slagging people off. I was speaking more about a number of EDL supporters who are indeed dim. Dimness is not unique to them, it takes many forms. For instance the legion of muppets who say "no one saw the financial crisis comming" and now suppose that we have to slash and burn the public sector to feed the banking hyenas. They are wrong. I'm not going to apologise for saying it and it doesnt make me a "snob".


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I didn't say they were all knuckledraggers, but I know you're not liable to let facts in the way of slagging people off. I was speaking more about a number of EDL supporters who are indeed dim. Dimness is not unique to them, it takes many forms. For instance the legion of muppets who say "no one saw the financial crisis comming" and now suppose that we have to slash and burn the public sector to feed the banking hyenas. They are wrong. I'm not going to apologise for saying it and it doesnt make me a "snob".


 
I wasn't asking you to apologise for anything, you're too wrapped up in your moral purity to do that. I was asking you to critically reflect on the similarities between your_ hur hur thickos_ approach to the BNP and that you take to the edl. Hasn't the advance of the BNP to a position where they were elected to represent you shone a  it of alight on the gaps that such an approach contains - you know, the political and social stuff?

And yes, you _are_ a sickening snob.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

The moderate success of the BNP is down to a huge range of factors, including the anti BNP forces making a number of strategic errors.
I was the only person to raise these errors in a speil that I gave at the the national UAF conference after Griffin got elected. I don't believe UAF have substantially altered their approach, the BNP are struggling now for different reasons. The social and political backdrop to the growth of the EDL (which is now somewhat abating) is also complex, bringing in such aspects as self segregation in communities.
But this doesnt detract from the fact that much of the appeal is raw bigotry and a chance to express it. I daresay it is exiting enough for the young men getting involved (it is mostly men) and the first time they have engaged in anything remotely "political".

They are still generally dupes though, dupes for the divide and rule tactics of the ruling class - the bitter lies of the right wing press and other intersts further to the right. The BNP didnt win MEP seats because they spoke to any concerns far beyond race or the anti-establishment sentiment of the time. Whipped up racist sentiment of the press played a far bigger part in their victory than doorknocking around the issue of housing and other genuine working class issues.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

> I would be happy to speak to the concerns of any working class person in my community, indeed I do so in a number of capacities.


What a great opening line  

Get back the rest in a sec, just wanted to say that first.


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## nino_savatte (Feb 22, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Don't believe me? Even their website says so!



Orwellian, I'd say. They clearly have a selective understanding of what 'human rights' entails.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What a great opening line
> 
> Get back the rest in a sec, just wanted to say that first.


 
Yeh it was shit, thinking of something else. Deleted it, little revisionist that I am.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

One more footnote to the last post Butchers: The BNP may have won that NW seat, but it wasnt actually due to a failure on my part. Neither do I attribute it as a personal success that the BNP only came 6th across the 32 wards of Manchester while the Green Party came 3rd.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

The rest: you're still missing the point, they've progressed this far - why? Has being 'dupes' mattered? Is this the point on which we should deal with them? Is this what's led to their success? Is this what matters?


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> One more footnote to the last post Butchers: The BNP may have won that NW seat, but it wasnt actually due to a failure on my part. Neither do I attribute it as a personal success that the BNP only came 6th across the 32 wards of Manchester while the Green Party came 3rd.


 Yeah, i know, you're pure. And they won.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Orwellian, I'd say. They clearly have a selective understanding of what 'human rights' entails.


 
The way they wank off about halal, burkha and treatment of homosexuals in "islamic" countries you'd think they were an especially vegan feminist LGBT branch of Amnesty International.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah, i know, you're pure. And they won.


 
You seem to think they won because of a failure represented my attitudes. You don't know what my attitudes are. You are simplistic. We all lost. I am not pure, just because you say something doesnt make it so.

You are every bit as arrogant and high minded as you accuse me of being and I've always found it very amusing. Keep on trucking.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The rest: you're still missing the point, they've progressed this far - why? Has being 'dupes' mattered? Is this the point on which we should deal with them? Is this what's led to their success? Is this what matters?


 
Are these questions about EDL or BNP? The answers would be different depending.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You seem to think they won because of a failure represented my attitudes. You don't know what my attitudes are. You are simplistic. We all lost. I am not pure, just because you say something doesnt make it so.
> 
> You are every bit as arrogant and high minded as you accuse me of being and I've always found it very amusing. Keep on trucking.



I know damn well what attitude you have, it's smeared over every post you make. It's one that fits in well with the tone of mainstream anti-fascism. It's been failing for a long time. It actually mirrors much of the lefts attitudes to the w/c as well. _If only they could be dragged away from their TVs, hear my good news _etc


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Are these questions about EDL or BNP? The answers would be different depending.


 
Well, i've just made a post about the similarities of your approach to both.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Well, i've just made a post about the similarities of your approach to both.


 
But I dont consider it appropriate to deal with the specific problems presented by both as a single issue., regardless of some overalp. Perhaps you were wrong. In fact I know you were wrong because we have been round this block quite a few times.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> But I dont consider it appropriate to deal with the specific problems presented by both as a single issue., regardless of some overalp. Perhaps you were wrong. In fact I know you were wrong because we have been round this block quite a few times.


 
I think that your approach to both is substantively the same - to say that they're knuckle draggers, dupes, thick fucks, dregs who don't know what real english/british culture is etc without ever getting close to an understanding of either what drives them or the potential social weight that these drives have, and by missing these you miss out why _it's largely irrelevant_ if the people attracted to these groups are dupes and so on.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I know damn well what attitude you have, it's smeared over every post you make. It's one that fits in well with the tone of mainstream anti-fascism. It's been failing for a long time. It actually mirrors much of the lefts attitudes to the w/c as well. _If only they could be dragged away from their TVs, hear my good news _etc


 
Well it would be helpful if people of all classes didnt seem to endlessly parrot establishment media lies.
Is it counter productive to think so or say so? Despite my disagreements with aspects of "mainstream anti fascism" it isn't actually their fault that fascism does better than it might. 

Goebels knew a great deal about how to manipulate perception using techniques which have been improved on and developed since. Lots of the people who voted for fascism in the 1930s were indeed desperate dupes sold on lies. Just because the fascists won in some instances doesnt mean there should be a block on discussing how it happened. 

Racism and bigotry know no class, many of the concerns of racists and bigots could only be spoken to by caving in to far right demands at some level, as the mainstream parties have learned to various degrees. I am interested in the roots of racism and bigotry, such as conservative culture, capitalist alienation etc. I am also interested in issues which effect all people including racists and bigots. 

Challenging racism and bigotry is bloody hard work, as is trying to address the concerns of everyday people.

Again, your tendency to snipe at people trying to grapple with these issues is no more productive than you accuse me of being.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

What political use is you standing there (on your own) howling that you know what the elite is really up to and that no one else sees it?



> Racism and bigotry know no class, many of the concerns of racists and bigots could only be spoken to by caving in to far right demands at some level, as the mainstream parties have learned to various degrees. I am interested in the roots of racism and bigotry, such as conservative culture, capitalist alienation etc. I am also interested in issues which effect all people including racists and bigots.



Right, now we're talking, let's have some more of this then - and on the real material level.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Butchers - they are different entities with different objectives. We have cross wibbled about the BNP alot and this thread is about the EDL so I'll stay with that

"..without ever getting close to an understanding of either what drives them..."

Self segretation of communities. Alienation. Disempowerment. Being shat on by the establishment, presented with someone to blame by the establishment and running along with what they are told. Failure by both communities to understand one another better.These are among the more understandable elements. If I lived in such an area I would certainly try and contribute towards a more harmonious and empowered sense of community. But a great deal of it also boils down to not liking "pakis" (perhaps for the reasons above) and taking great delight in being part of a bigger group that doesnt like "pakis". A misunderstood religion with as many conservative aspects as islam also provides a great opportunity for half truths and lies to be manipulated to justift not liking "pakis" even more. And like the BNP, they can hide racial prejudice behind phoney theolgoical concerns.

"potential social weight that these drives have" - they have a big potential social weight. I am not ignoring that at all. I have used it as evidence for attitudes you describe as "snobbish"

"it's largely irrelevant if the people attracted to these groups are dupes and so on." It is not irrelevant to understanding the dynamics of the growth of such groups. Vulnerable people are used, but saying so is apparently part of the problem.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

members of the Birmingham division, posing in balaclavas with rifles and UVF flags .Still, we really ought to try and understand what motivates these geniuses I suppose rather than just concluding they are ignorant wankers who like playing soldiers.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/...155149637870051.46403.145019135549768&theater


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

Yes, you should try and understand a society that produced these twats.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> members of the Birmingham division, posing in balaclavas with rifles and UVF flags .Still, we really ought to try and understand what motivates these geniuses I suppose rather than just concluding they are ignorant wankers who like playing soldiers.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/...155149637870051.46403.145019135549768&theater


 I'm not on facebook btw - isn't that part of the conspiracy?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I'm not on facebook btw - isn't that part of the conspiracy?


 
Some say it is, but life's too short innit.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, you should try and understand a society that produced these twats.


 
Without reference to stupidity?


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Some say it is, but life's too short innit.


 
It is or it is not. Is it?


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Without reference to stupidity?


 
Depends how (and who) you use the idea. Your BNP electing finger wagging way doesn't work does it?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It is or it is not. Is it?


 
Facebook? dunno.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Depends how (and who) you use the idea. Your BNP electing finger wagging way doesn't work does it?


 
I've posted at length about reducing the BNP threat without just "finger wagging". But it's hard to reduce their threat when you live many miles from their activist hotspots and have community concerns to address much closer to home. There's no point in blaming just me or my approach for any advance in fascism. Everyone is responsible. I imagine you oppose capitalism, the banking heist and resultant public service decimation. Does that mean your methods of challenging them have failed? Probably does. Doesn't make you a bad egg, and doesnt make you as responsible as the criminals involved or the hoard of saps who go along with it without lifting a finger.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

Have you, where?


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## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Intelligence has nothing to do with social weight.



You calling me fat?


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> You calling me fat?


 
Happens to us all mate.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

This is an interesting post from elsewhere:
_

My name's Emma, and I'm from ye olde Lancashire. I'm 21 and actually educated to a minimum level, as in I can hold a conversation with minimal spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.

I 'joined' the EDL after the whole po...ppy burning rigmarole however, I soon learnt, after trying to raise feasible discussions with the group, that they are infact a community of absolute retards. From the off, my ability to string a sentence together confused them immensely, and I was soon branded a 'lefty troll'

I never went to university, I got a job at 14 and worked at the same place for 5 years, I'd sooner earn money than scrounge it, something else the EDL couldn't comprehend.

I WAS a proud English citizen, but my interest is waining, given how rapidly this once Great Britain is going to pot. Saying that, I'll hold on, refrain from setting fire to mosques and just go about my business like a good girl.

The EDL are nothing more than self proclaimed football hooligans, in a dangerously large firm, but while they're not working, and they can't afford coach fares to get to demos (sp? fights) I think we're pretty much safe.
_


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## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 22, 2011)

Tell me about it! 2 stone in two years!


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> This is an interesting post from elsewhere:
> _
> 
> My name's Emma, and I'm from ye olde Lancashire. I'm 21 and actually educated to a minimum level, as in I can hold a conversation with minimal spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.
> ...


 Why are you posting this stuff?


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## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> This is an interesting post from elsewhere:
> _
> 
> My name's Emma, and I'm from ye olde Lancashire. I'm 21 and actually educated to a minimum level, as in I can hold a conversation with minimal spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.
> ...



Sounds like Captain Hurrah in disguise


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Have you, where?


 
On a website called Urban75. You're more of a one for trawling through the archives than I am, but I wouldnt blame you for not being arsed on this occasion.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> On a website called Urban75. You're more of a one for trawling through the archives than I am, but I wouldnt blame you for not being arsed on this occasion.


 I haven't see to do that. Examples.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Why are you posting this stuff?


 
A bit of an insight in to the motivations and disappointments of someone who got a bit involved with the EDL, this being a thread about the EDL.

I thought you wanted to discuss that kind of thing, but she did soon find out they were "retards" - so perhaps you think she is wagging the finger. Is your solution to take their concerns more seriously? How would you work towards outlawing the Koran?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I haven't see to do that. Examples.


 
There's something from a few hours ago upthread where you said some mildly complimentary things about some aspects of one of my posts. Like yourself (I suspect) I have neither time nor inclination to delve around the back of the internet just to prove the point.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> A bit of an insight in to the motivations and disappointments of someone who got a bit involved with the EDL, this being a thread about the EDL.
> 
> I thought you wanted to discuss that kind of thing, but she did soon find out they were "retards" - so perhaps you think she is wagging the finger. Is your solution to take their concerns more seriously? How would you we work towards outlawing the Koran?



I didn't want to discuss some people facebook arguments no. I wanted top talk about politics and that.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> There's something from a few hours ago upthread where you said some mildly complimentary things about some aspects of one of my posts. Like yourself (I suspect) I have neither time nor inclination to delve around the back of the internet just to prove the point.


 
I didn't.

 Examples.


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## Ld222 (Feb 22, 2011)

Pics of EDL members holding guns in front of loyalist paraphernalia!!

This link may have already have been posted!!





http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/1818/EDL-photo-SHOOT


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 22, 2011)

All the sneering at people for 'being thick' or pictures of far righters with loyalist paraphernalia doesn't address why the far right has social weight, does it? None of it. It's not just the far right that has plenty of thickos, clearly.

This thread depresses me.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Butchers Here's the bit from this thread.

_Racism and bigotry know no class, many of the concerns of racists and bigots could only be spoken to by caving in to far right demands at some level, as the mainstream parties have learned to various degrees. I am interested in the roots of racism and bigotry, such as conservative culture, capitalist alienation etc. I am also interested in issues which effect all people including racists and bigots._

You said

" now we're talking, let's have some more of this then - and on the real material level."

Now, to speak to that further: In a political party sense it would depend on the local situation to the voter, there are plenty of motivations in voting beyond nationalism, race etc.

But in an EDL sense it is more difficult because they are far more single issue. If you want to help them deal with their concerns you will have to speak to such issues as cited by Robinson / Lennon as a top objective - outlawing the Koran. "no new mosques" is another frequent demand. How do you feel we can address the needs of these people? Is it so important to give them full consideration between the chants of "pakis out" and "allah is a peado".


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> All the sneering at people for 'being thick' or pictures of far righters with loyalist paraphernalia doesn't address why the far right has social weight, does it? None of it. It's not just the far right that has plenty of thickos, clearly.
> 
> This thread depresses me.



It's a depressing subject overall. But it has been said here that the far right has weight because of such factors as alienation, disempowerment and the wilful lies of the establishment press.


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 22, 2011)

Oh dear


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Probably had this one too, but goes some way to explaining "social weight".

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/search/label/muslims


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It's a depressing subject overall. But it has been said here that the far right has weight because of such factors as alienation, disempowerment and the wilful lies of the establishment press.


 
2 out of 3. Thing is, you talk about alienation, disenfranchisement etc, but it's just words to you isn't it?

What role does class play? What are the underlying issues? Full marks if you can slip in 'post-industrial'.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Butchers Here's the bit from this thread.
> 
> _Racism and bigotry know no class, many of the concerns of racists and bigots could only be spoken to by caving in to far right demands at some level, as the mainstream parties have learned to various degrees. I am interested in the roots of racism and bigotry, such as conservative culture, capitalist alienation etc. I am also interested in issues which effect all people including racists and bigots._
> 
> ...


 
I'd hoped that you would expand. But you just hate humans.

The edl's weight has nothing to with the leaders. It's what these clowns represent. Which is a small pool of right wing youtubers. Why have these clowns got any traction  - and what this means for wider w/c politics is the question. Not what you put on the agenda.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> 2 out of 3. Thing is, you talk about alienation, disenfranchisement etc, but it's just words to you isn't it?
> 
> What role does class play? What are the underlying issues? Full marks if you can slip in 'post-industrial'.



2 out of 3? Which is the wrong un? Perhaps you think the establishment press doesnt wilfully stir hatred.
Why is it just words to me? What do you know about where I live or the experiences in my community? If you can outline all of that then give us a combined bet for the cricket and rugby world cup winners as well. I might even break habit and do the lottery if you give us the winning numbers for that in advance.

What role does class play? Well as they don't seem to tire of saying, the EDL are predominantly working class. This means they have been shat on from a height and will continue to be shat on, especially while they are led down the cul de sac of patriotic politics and blaming other working class people for their problems. I've already spoken to some of the underlying issues upthread, one of the most important and difficult is probably self-segregation by white and asian communities in key areas.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

> I've already spoken to some of the underlying issues upthread, one of the most important and difficult is probably self-segregation by white and asian communities in key areas.



You haven't, you keep saying that you have, You have not. You taken one issue, said one thing, not examined it and that's it - nothing else.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I'd hoped that you would expand. But you just hate humans.
> 
> The edl's weight has nothing to with the leaders. It's what these clowns represent. Which is a small pool of right wing youtubers. Why have these clowns got any traction  - and what this means for wider w/c politics is the question. Not what you put on the agenda.


 
I dont hate humans. I like most humans on an individual level, including you as far as I know you. I strongly dislike some human traits like bigotry. Sadly they are a bit more than Youtubers because they intimidate non white communities and political activists. My agenda is increasingly my community, but I also would like to see wholescale social and political changes that would hopefully lessen the fertility for fascism and racism that exist currently.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

So why have they got some traction?


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> 2 out of 3? Which is the wrong un? Perhaps you think the establishment press doesnt wilfully stir hatred.
> Why is it just words to me? What do you know about where I live or the experiences in my community? If you can outline all of that then give us a combined bet for the cricket and rugby world cup winners as well. I might even break habit and do the lottery if you give us the winning numbers for that in advance.
> 
> What role does class play? Well as they don't seem to tire of saying, the EDL are predominantly working class. This means they have been shat on from a height and will continue to be shat on, especially while they are led down the cul de sac of patriotic politics and blaming other working class people for their problems. I've already spoken to some of the underlying issues upthread, one of the most important and difficult is probably self-segregation by white and asian communities in key areas.


 
"It's about social isolation and disenfranchisement, the thick chavvy fuckers". That's why it is just words to you. And why do you think you are immune from the _poisonous influence of the establishment meedya_ but _they are not_?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> So why have they got some traction?


 
cos there's a lot of disenchantment about and this is a simplistic way of channeling it that won't inconvinience the establishment. Not a comprehensive answer, but probably the single most important things.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> And why do you think you are immune from the _poisonous influence of the establishment meedya_ but _they are not_?



Did I say I was immune or are you straw manning?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

He asked you if you were. Are you?


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> cos there's a lot of disenchantment about and this is a simplistic way of channeling it that won't inconvinience the establishment. Not a comprehensive answer, but probably the single most important things.


 
Can wee have some sort of political chronology  - what comes first?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

PT - "chav" is not a term I like or use. Why put words in people's mouths.

BA - If I was as arrogant as you think I am then I probably would think myself immune, but I aint.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Can wee have some sort of political chronology  - what comes first?


 
The chronology is as laid out in the sentence. The chronolgy behind the disenchantment might be what you are asking about, that's complex but essentially class based, as well you know.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

"ain't"


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

?


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## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2011)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/1818/EDL-photo-SHOOT


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/1818/EDL-photo-SHOOT


 
We need to understand their concerns BOB, I'm concerned they might not have heard of the Good Friday Agreement.


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 22, 2011)

If people complain that immigrants take all the council houses, they are complaining that there are not enough council houses.

If people complain that immigrants are taking their jobs, they are complaining that there is too much pressure on not enough jobs.

If people complain that immigrant labour is keeping their wages down, then they are complaining that the bosses are not paying them enough to live.

If people complain that at least the BNP listen to them, they are complaining that the political mainstream and the left doesn't listen to them.

If people complain that they feel their culture is being drowned out, they are complaining that their own social and economic position is being driven down.

If people complain that we give X amount of foreign aid to Y country, they are complaining that there is not enough investment into deprived areas here in the UK.

They've just reached the wrong conclusion. The grievances are legitimate. And all about class.

We've established that the far right is racist. Go us. Now perhaps we could all try and understand why ordinary people might turn to a racist political alternative.

Why do people say racist things? Because they are racist.

Why do people commit crime? Because they are criminals.

Why do people take drugs? Because they are druggies.

Doesn't work.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

PT - good as that post is, it doesnt get us much further.

However much a failure my vision is, or that of others you are critical of, do you have any claim to have a better vision and model? does Butchers?

It's all well and fine telling people on a message board their approach is failing. But if fascism and racism have too much traction then presumably your approach is failing too, or not being applied across the board at least. Which is it? If it's the latter is that something we could blame you for too? I do what I can where I live which may or may not be a good model. It's hard to tell because it's never been a place the BNP have stood and I have no breakdown of EDL demo attendance by geography (that's not sarcasm by the way).
Where I live is very mixed community ethnically, even fairly mixed classwise. It is more of a breeding ground of anti racism than racism.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> We need to understand their concerns BOB, I'm concerned they might not have heard of the Good Friday Agreement.


 
How long before someone gets killed in a mosque fire? or kicked to death for being a Muslim? the EDL fill these young lads with hate and bigotry, make them think they are soldiers of England and that what they are doing is standing up for England. They are mostly young lads without a clue and i fear it won't be long before people get killed over it all.


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## stethoscope (Feb 22, 2011)

Don't know why you bother PT, Butchers.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> How long before someone gets killed in a mosque fire? or kicked to death for being a Muslim? the EDL fill these young lads with hate and bigotry, make them think they are soldiers of England and that what they are doing is standing up for England. They are mostly young lads without a clue and i fear it won't be long before people get killed over it all.


 
Well hopefully no one will be dying, but if something really bad happened we'd probably get a lot of people saying it was bound to happen, essentially because we haven't appeased the far right enough. And lots of people on the left would blame other people on the left for not having the right analysis and course of action.


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 22, 2011)

Of course my approach is failing - we don't have enough jobs or council houses or services. But just dismissing them as racists or blabbering on about 'cross-community paradigms between British Nationalism and Loyalism' or Spanish Falangeism or Mosley's brownshirts or whatever (as somebody else did earlier) is just shit. And pointing your finger at them, saying they are thick or they would be okay if only it wasn't for the Sun is also shit, and will only entrench the view a fairly large swathe of the population has (the vast majority of which don't vote BNP or support the EDL), namely that they are ignored, their concerns dismissed, and that nobody represents them. _Except maybe this lot._

The best anti-fascism doesn't mention fascism. It doesn't need to.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Of course my approach is failing - we don't have enough jobs or council houses or services. But just dismissing them as racists or blabbering on about 'cross-community paradigms between British Nationalism and Loyalism' or Spanish Falangeism or Mosley's brownshirts or whatever (as somebody else did earlier) is just shit. And pointing your finger at them, saying they are thick or they would be okay if only it wasn't for the Sun is also shit, and will only entrench the view a fairly large swathe of the population has (the vast majority of which don't vote BNP or support the EDL), namely that they are ignored, their concerns dismissed, and that nobody represents them. _Except maybe this lot._
> 
> The best anti-fascism doesn't mention fascism. It doesn't need to.


 
Agreed, except that historical comparrisons are useful. I thought one of your previous posts was more sarcastic than it was, for which I apologise.

Probably one of the better bits of propaganda around is something Ill link to in a sec, doesnt mention facsism till very near the end.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Sorry, not where I thought it was. Manchester AFA anyhow, who came back into existence not least through disenchantment with UAF.


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## butchersapron (Feb 22, 2011)

You fucking what?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 22, 2011)

I think I've seen it. Liverpool antifascists do some decent stuff too. It's not new though. It's just been drowned out by the liberal back-slapping and 'nazi scum off our streets' crap.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> I think I've seen it. Liverpool antifascists do some decent stuff too. It's not new though. It's just been drowned out by the liberal back-slapping and 'nazi scum off our streets' crap.


 
Yep.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You fucking what?


 
sorry butchers, not as psychic as you are. more explicit?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> How long before someone gets killed in a mosque fire? or kicked to death for being a Muslim? the EDL fill these young lads with hate and bigotry, make them think they are soldiers of England and that what they are doing is standing up for England. They are mostly young lads without a clue and i fear it won't be long before people get killed over it all.


 
Where is the evidence for this?


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## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2011)

it's on the internet over there  ------------------------------------>


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## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2011)

It all happens on the internet Bob


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## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2011)

yeah, i should go out more like i did tonight or something. 

safe


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 22, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:
			
		

> [...]But just dismissing them as racists or blabbering on about 'cross-community paradigms between British Nationalism and Loyalism' or Spanish Falangeism or Mosley's brownshirts or whatever (as somebody else did earlier) is just shit.



not sure it is exactly why you so profoundly fail to see any merit in historical/social/political parallels, or even the notion of discussing them (especially seeing as the example you're vaguely referring to in this quote was my own, which was openly posed as a conversation starter). no-one here disagrees with your criticisms of non-class based analyses of racism. most people probably won't disagree with you on the point of just shouting 'fascist' and 'nazi' at them. if your problem is simply with people giving enough time to talk about groups like the EDL at all (as it seems is butchersapron's bug bear) then tbh just fuck off out of the thread. if you're interested in discussing them then accept that, err, people will actually try to make sense of these organisations, what they are doing and what they are actually planning to achieve.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 23, 2011)

Interesting video that compares the lot of white communities and Asian communities in Oldham, I think.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 23, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Interesting video that compares the lot of white communities and Asian communities in Oldham, I think.




I think it's good too, but he is calling the racists nasty names so he doesnt have any real solutions. Or something. He may be a white working class person from the area, but he cant know as much as the U75 self appointed political analysts who are ready to pounce on "snobs" who criticise the bleatings of racist losers.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

without questioning the main guy's w/c credentials, that video is clearly a reactionary against the deficiencies of his own community/culture.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

EDL trash up Luton Labour Party

http://uaf.org.uk/2011/02/windows-smashed-and-edl-grafitti-left-at-luton-labour-hq/


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## irvinebenjamin8 (Feb 23, 2011)

Watch looks great in my hands....


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> not sure it is exactly why you so profoundly fail to see any merit in historical/social/political parallels, or even the notion of discussing them (especially seeing as the example you're vaguely referring to in this quote was my own, which was openly posed as a conversation starter). no-one here disagrees with your criticisms of non-class based analyses of racism. most people probably won't disagree with you on the point of just shouting 'fascist' and 'nazi' at them. if your problem is simply with people giving enough time to talk about groups like the EDL at all (as it seems is butchersapron's bug bear) then tbh just fuck off out of the thread. if you're interested in discussing them then accept that, err, people will actually try to make sense of these organisations, what they are doing and what they are actually planning to achieve.


 
Profoundly. Lol.

If you want to wank off about how they are just like the black and tans or whatever then knock yourself out, it's completely irrelevant though.



> if you're interested in discussing them then accept that, err, people will actually try to make sense of these organisations, what they are doing and what they are actually planning to achieve.



The fucking organisations don't matter you dick.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 23, 2011)

> The fucking organisations don't matter you dick.



Right, so an extremely active EDL mobilizing a hell of a lot of hooligans on the street, supposedly on one issue but not really, doesn't matter? 

I think the whole EDL thing is giving the street orientated fash more confidence and will most definitely deliver new recruits to them after their initiatiation in so called acceptable racism. I see the EDL as a vehicle to something more serious.

What is the next step for them? The Barnsley video says it all. 

They are a potential counter protest/anti left force. Their leader showed his cards when he gave a speech in Peterborough encouraging EDL followers to mobilize against Anti fees protestors (Students) in London. If they were able to do that (and Im not saying they would have it easy) they would be basically acting as a street deterent to protest, in these times of assaults on living standards and resistance to cuts. Sound familiar? History repeats because  economic and social conditions also repeat.


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Right, so an extremely active EDL mobilizing a hell of a lot of hooligans on the street, supposedly on one issue but not really, doesn't matter?
> 
> I think the whole EDL thing is giving the street orientated fash more confidence and will most definitely deliver new recruits to them after their initiatiation in so called acceptable racism. I see the EDL as a vehicle to something more serious.
> 
> ...


 
And if the far right didn't have these grievances to latch on to, or if a pro-working class force was already addressing these grievances, then the far right wouldn't have any traction.

Cause/consequence.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 23, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> And if the far right didn't have these grievances to latch on to, or if a pro-working class force was already addressing these grievances, then the far right wouldn't have any traction.
> 
> Cause/consequence.


 
I agree. The larger street left organizastions turned their back on the WC years ago and turned into a debating society. The few who had learned the lessons were that, too few.

The grievances being housing, opportunities etc , Not perceived threats from Islam taking over and all that tosh.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Profoundly. Lol.



yeah right, so we all understand you hate words such as 'parallel' and 'profound'... laughable you take this culturally backwards "working class" attitude towards intellectual discussion then project your own mental obsession onto other people whenever they use words like bairn... you're a fucking sad sack.



> If you want to wank off about how they are just like the black and tans or whatever then knock yourself out, it's completely irrelevant though.



where has that been suggested, dickhead?



> The fucking organisations don't matter you dick.


 
so i was right in my analysis, that is where your disagreement lies. now for the sake of all of us who aren't so thick as to fall for that shit can you fuck off out of this informational/analytical discussion you fucking troll?


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> And if the far right didn't have these grievances to latch on to, or if a pro-working class force was already addressing these grievances, then the far right wouldn't have any traction.
> 
> Cause/consequence.


 
what a fucking illiterate understanding of ideology. i thought the re-emergence of Gramsci had given us all a bit more of a nuanced understanding of political culture and power. and i thought that the lessons of the 20th century had taught the left a little bit more about bare essential survival tactics.

yes, the left isn't dealing with these issues as it ought to, but placing the entire blame of an emerging far right on the failures of the left to challenge capitalism is just 3rd period Stalinism. the issue is that the cultural and the material actually intermingle, and regardless of the left's effectiveness at combatting poverty and deprivation, if we fail to win the cultural arguments then the fasc can still move, they can still gather support. 

not to mention that the far right voids rational debate by indulging in people's emotions and skews notions of reality by pandering to their base cultural prejudices. not only do the left have to be actively culturally engaging with chauvanism on a cultural level, we also have to understand that beyond a point the only way to operate is to physically secure our position. Newcastle SWP, amongst others, is currently fucked - they can't hold a public meeting which the EDL aren't Ok with - because every time they do they get battered. EDL have, as posted just above, recently been attacking Labour Party offices, broadening out their political grievances to those with the broader left.

when i go back home to Lancs there are masses of kids marching home from school every day chanting E-E-EDL. my sister is friends with Muslim kids at the same school, where they're constantly harrassed and abused. a few weeks ago a large bunch of 15 'EDL' lads were threatening to rip off her friend's hijab. the last political stall the SWP did in my town was collared by two massive Nazis - in every pub you go in on a Friday/Saturday night there's always a fucking rowdy EDL contingent mouthing off their chants. perhaps Lancs is out of the ordinary, but they're taking this place by storm. fuck housing shortages, they've been bad for ages and we never had this situation 3 years ago. what the EDL have allowed to develop is a widespread and popular culture of thuggish bullying towards minority communities. you and butchers can fuck right off with your dismissive cuntery.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> yeah right, so we all understand you hate words such as 'parallel' and 'profound'... laughable you take this culturally backwards "working class" attitude towards intellectual discussion then project your own mental obsession onto other people whenever they use words like bairn... you're a fucking sad sack.



I'm all for using the correct words in the appropriate context. What I fucking hate is gobshites with a little knowledge dressing up their idiot warblings and making what they say - which is usually of little merit anyway - impenetrable or at least unappealing to most people. Profoundly.

I am also not butchers. I have never mentioned bairns.

_All the zulus' faces blend into one after a while._

If you are a) Scottish or b) from the NE then it is acceptable.

Do they say bairn in Cumbria? Probably. So Cumbrians are acceptable too.




> where has that been suggested, dickhead?



Who fucking cares if they are like ulster loyalists or peruvian bandits or whatever? Why does it matter? Even if they were a carbon copy of some previous group of loons, it would still be an entirely different social and historical context. Wank youself off with psuedo-knowldge all you like but don't think it counts for shit.




> so i was right in my analysis, that is where your disagreement lies. now for the sake of all of us who aren't so thick as to fall for that shit can you fuck off out of this informational/analytical discussion you fucking troll?


 
Because I would quite like a debate on how we can challenge the growth of the far right. I just disagree that this can be done by focussing our energies on the organisations themselves. Unless the social inequality and exclusion that feeds them is addressed then these organisations will exist.



> my analysis





> informational/analytical discussion



Lol


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> what a fucking illiterate understanding of ideology. i thought the re-emergence of Gramsci had given us all a bit more of a nuanced understanding of political culture and power. and i thought that the lessons of the 20th century had taught the left a little bit more about bare essential survival tactics.
> 
> yes, the left isn't dealing with these issues as it ought to, but placing the entire blame of an emerging far right on the failures of the left to challenge capitalism is just 3rd period Stalinism.



Except I'm not. Here it is again:



> And if the far right didn't have these grievances to latch on to, or if a pro-working class force was already addressing these grievances, then the far right wouldn't have any traction.



Note the first part.



Das Uberdog said:


> the issue is that the cultural and the material actually intermingle



Lol. Is rain wet?



Das Uberdog said:


> and regardless of the left's effectiveness at combatting poverty and deprivation, if we fail to win the cultural arguments then the fasc can still move, they can still gather support.



Bollocks.



> not to mention that the far right voids rational debate by indulging in people's emotions and skews notions of reality by pandering to their base cultural prejudices. not only do the left have to be actively culturally engaging with chauvanism on a cultural level, we also have to understand that beyond a point the only way to operate is to physically secure our position. Newcastle SWP, amongst others, is currently fucked - they can't hold a public meeting which the EDL aren't Ok with - because every time they do they get battered. EDL have, as posted just above, recently been attacking Labour Party offices, broadening out their political grievances to those with the broader left.



So?



> when i go back home to Lancs



Who do you say bairns if you are from Lancs?



> there are masses of kids marching home from school every day chanting E-E-EDL. my sister is friends with Muslim kids at the same school, where they're constantly harrassed and abused. a few weeks ago a large bunch of 15 'EDL' lads were threatening to rip off her friend's hijab. the last political stall the SWP did in my town was collared by two massive Nazis - in every pub you go in on a Friday/Saturday night there's always a fucking rowdy EDL contingent mouthing off their chants. perhaps Lancs is out of the ordinary, but they're taking this place by storm. fuck housing shortages, they've been bad for ages and we never had this situation 3 years ago. what the EDL have allowed to develop is a widespread and popular culture of thuggish bullying towards minority communities. you and butchers can fuck right off with your dismissive cuntery.


 
What point are you making? It sounds like 'see, i'm not middle class'.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

you'd be fun to twat


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

just ignore all cultural/historical parallels, they're too middle class

utter fucking cunt


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

language is too middle class. using language is a sign of pretending not to be middle class. absolute fucking moron... is this the workerist bullshit they're teaching you in Milly?


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

it'd be funny if you didn't genuinely want your head caving in


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> you'd be fun to twat


 


Das Uberdog said:


> it'd be funny if you didn't genuinely want your head caving in


 
Ace. You'd be the man to do that Das?

SWP hardman.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

if you'd said what you've just told me a moment ago in person, i wouldn't have thought for a second before smashing your face in. me talking about the kids from my old school walking past my house somehow me pretending not to be middle class, you fucking turd.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> if you'd said what you've just told me a moment ago in person, i wouldn't have thought for a second before smashing your face in. me talking about the kids from my old school walking past my house somehow me pretending not to be middle class, you fucking turd.


 
Are you a proper street tough Das?

Mixing it up, bairns everywhere, whatalad


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

ha ha, seriously dickhead you should just hope our paths don't cross. i've no doubt you've got an image in your head of some skinny, long-haired student nerd and i think you'd be somewhat shocked by the physical reality.

not everyone spends as much time combing their internet image as "working class" "language is for students" you.

utter prick


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

note this all started because you made fucking unsubstantiated personal attacks for about the umpty 1st time in a row

you can still apologise


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> ha ha, seriously dickhead you should just hope our paths don't cross. i've no doubt you've got an image in your head of some skinny, long-haired student nerd and i think you'd be somewhat shocked by the physical reality.



Internet gold.

I will cower before your physical reality.



Das Uberdog said:


> not everyone spends as much time combing their internet image as "working class" "language is for students" you.
> 
> utter prick



I'm glad you like my internet image.



Das Uberdog said:


> note this all started because you made fucking unsubstantiated personal attacks for about the umpty 1st time in a row



Did I? Where?



Das Uberdog said:


> you can still apologise


 
Mint.

SWP cadre school - how to offer somebody out on the internet. Speaker - Martin Smith.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

funny guy


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

hard man


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

read back over your posts then come back and tell me if you don't think you're completely fucking out of order. i'm just no longer interested in having this out with some fucking knobhead who's only concern is to 'out' me as being middle class and is willing to be as completely apolitical as they like in order to do so


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> read back over your posts then come back and tell me if you don't think you're completely fucking out of order.



Okay, I've re-read them. And, instead of discussing the actual politics, you invoked some personal - and unsubstantiated - tale about how real you are, on the sharp end, etc. Which I suspect is only loosely based in reality, if at all. Whatever the truth, it is still the internet equivalent of flailing around face down in the paddling pool, inflatable wings everywhere.

Then you offered me out. Lol.



Das Uberdog said:


> i'm just no longer interested in having this out with some fucking knobhead who's only concern is to 'out' me as being middle class and is willing to be as completely apolitical as they like in order to do so


 
Good for you. Go Das.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

i've been arguing the politics all the way through this, as opposed to your one line (often one word) 'responses' and your general cunt mentality.

and for the record i wasn't 'offering you out', i was just telling you that if your goal was to drive me mad then well done - you succeeded. let's just hope for your sake you don't have to actually face up to the ramifications eh?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> and for the record i wasn't 'offering you out'



...



Das Uberdog said:


> you'd be fun to twat


 


Das Uberdog said:


> it'd be funny if you didn't genuinely want your head caving in


 


Das Uberdog said:


> if you'd said what you've just told me a moment ago in person, i wouldn't have thought for a second before smashing your face in.


 


Das Uberdog said:


> ha ha, seriously dickhead you should just hope our paths don't cross.





Das Uberdog said:


> let's just hope for your sake you don't have to actually face up to the ramifications eh?



Lol. Fuck off you posh mug.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 23, 2011)

i'd have been offering you out if i'd ask for a time, place and date you pansy cunt. as it stands all i'm saying is that you'd be best keeping your fucking mouth shut if we end up within close personal proximity.

end.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> you pansy cunt


 
"I'm proper working class, I can be homophobic, wanna fight"

You soppy cunt. I'll watch out for the swappie ninja next time I go to a demo shall I?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> i'd ask for a time, place and date


 
Lol. Would you have challenged me to a duel?


----------



## xes (Feb 23, 2011)

fucking hell ladies, sort your lives out  

Or just get this scrap on the go, film it, and let us amuse oursleves by watching it. It's the only reasonable course of action.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 23, 2011)

Das will one be having Weyman and Martin as ones seconds? 

Will there be coverage of this splendid duel in the sports pages of the Socialist Gentlemen Worker?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> i'd have been offering you out if i'd ask for a time, place and date you pansy cunt. as it stands all i'm saying is that you'd be best keeping your fucking mouth shut if we end up within close personal proximity.
> 
> end.



Let me get this right...you are threatening to kick someones head in because they are calling you middle class? Since your SWP I feel that you probably couldnt fight your way out of a wet paper bag.


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## Crispy (Feb 23, 2011)

I realise this was all 6 hours ago and you're probably smoking a post-coital cigarette by now, but just in case you _haven't_ kissed and made up: Das Uberdog, Proper Tidy - continuation of this blatantly over-the-line bullshit will result in an immediate ban. All told.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 23, 2011)

Thread starter helped derail his own work. Gone is the original (helpful) thread.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 23, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I realise this was all 6 hours ago and you're probably smoking a post-coital cigarette by now, but just in case you _haven't_ kissed and made up: Das Uberdog, Proper Tidy - continuation of this blatantly over-the-line bullshit will result in an immediate ban. All told.


 
Oh come on, I didn't offer anybody out. I must object.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> i'd have been offering you out if [blah blah ...]



This rings bells! 

I'm still waiting for you to show some bollocks here btw. 

Interpretation: It will never happen.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 23, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I realise this was all 6 hours ago and you're probably smoking a post-coital cigarette by now, but just in case you _haven't_ kissed and made up: Das Uberdog, Proper Tidy - continuation of this blatantly over-the-line bullshit will result in an immediate ban. All told.


 
Without having followed the row blow for blow, that sort of silly spat seems a natural consquence of the air of inquisition and oneupmanship on too many threads. It's called "EDL Watch" and serves a good function. People come here to report and discuss what that group are up to and about. But then out come the straw men that people are "just" calling them racists, thick or whatever when they aint, or that they dont understand or apply class analysis when they can and do. People point and sneer at people for pointing, sneering and not being in possession of a precise analysis which the accusers themselves are very slow to lay out. 

Discussing the EDL on a thread to discuss the EDL just isnt enough. Everyone must have a politically approved workable, actioned solution or they are just a worthless piece of shit who understands nothing. Not that the self appointed experts who convey this attitude neccesarily demonstrate their own workable actioned solutions, but that's just detail. And why let detail get in the way of a good sneer? Any fash reading it would fall over themselves laughing.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 23, 2011)

You're as guilty of disrupting this thread as the best of 'em.


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## PlaidDragon (Feb 23, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> i'd have been offering you out if i'd ask for a time, place and date you pansy cunt. as it stands all i'm saying is that you'd be best keeping your fucking mouth shut if we end up within close personal proximity.
> 
> end.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 23, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> You're as guilty of disrupting this thread as the best of 'em.


 
I post some links and stuff and get endless inquisitions from people which I try to answer honestly, which is probably a mistake because things go round in circles from there.


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 23, 2011)

> Newcastle SWP, amongst others, is currently fucked - they can't hold a public meeting which the EDL aren't Ok with - because every time they do they get battered.



Like to get back on track after the handbags at dawn and all that.. 

How accurate is the quote above? As far as I have heard there was the disruption of one meeting in Newcastle and no one was "battered". It's on video. The EDL were mobbed up but didn't resort to violence. They asked questions and the meeting walked out. If people have been battered and meetings violently attacked then that would be a new developement. Confirm please.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 23, 2011)

Who's making the claim AO? i.e where is the quote from?


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 24, 2011)

Here is the reply in post 1094 where the claim is made



Das Uberdog said:


> what a fucking illiterate understanding of ideology. i thought the re-emergence of Gramsci had given us all a bit more of a nuanced understanding of political culture and power. and i thought that the lessons of the 20th century had taught the left a little bit more about bare essential survival tactics.
> 
> yes, the left isn't dealing with these issues as it ought to, but placing the entire blame of an emerging far right on the failures of the left to challenge capitalism is just 3rd period Stalinism. the issue is that the cultural and the material actually intermingle, and regardless of the left's effectiveness at combatting poverty and deprivation, if we fail to win the cultural arguments then the fasc can still move, they can still gather support.
> 
> ...


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 24, 2011)

Tx for that.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 24, 2011)

i think a couple of people have been roughed around a bit on a couple of occasions now, but thus far serious force hasn't been necessary to break the meeting up as there's been nothing in the way of resistance.

but basically, if the EDL dislike a Newcastle SWP meeting enough to turn up, then it doesn't happen.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2011)

I bet they rue the day they expelled the squads.


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## manny-p (Feb 24, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I bet they rue the day they expelled the squads.


 
Im glad the squadists went their seperate way. They are better off without the SWP. Although shame they got so pally with the Republicans and their dead end politics.


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 24, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> i think a couple of people have been roughed around a bit on a couple of occasions now, but thus far serious force hasn't been necessary to break the meeting up as there's been nothing in the way of resistance.
> 
> but basically, if the EDL dislike a Newcastle SWP meeting enough to turn up, then it doesn't happen.



So no one has been "battered"? Gotta be careful to avoid being alarmist.

And as for the SWP rueing the day they expelled the squads. I don't think they'll be doing it again, not because they have learned a lesson or anything but because I doubt they have any blue collar wc in their ranks to expell. Lets just say their middle class/academic cadre don't have the aggresive conditioning that many wc grow up with.

In the 70's it was different. They recruited blue collar through the many strikes. People who became revolutionaries thru struggle rather than thru theory and personal rebelliousness as do many of the middle class cadre.

UAF/SWP must surely look like a soft target for the EDL but they have shown surprising restraint up till now considering that Bullies love weaker victims.

Is this the calm before the storm?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 24, 2011)

They reckon they are going to protest 4 hours a day for a month outside a Blackburn KFC. That's some commitment, why dont these keen AR vegan activists get along to an ALF Gathering as well?


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## manny-p (Feb 24, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> And as for the SWP rueing the day they expelled the squads. I don't think they'll be doing it again, not because they have learned a lesson or anything but because I doubt they have any blue collar wc in their ranks to expell. Lets just say their middle class/academic cadre don't have the aggresive conditioning that many wc grow up with.
> 
> In the 70's it was different. They recruited blue collar through the many strikes. People who became revolutionaries thru struggle rather than thru theory and personal rebelliousness as do many of the middle class cadre.


 
This.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 24, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> So no one has been "battered"? Gotta be careful to avoid being alarmist.
> 
> And as for the SWP rueing the day they expelled the squads. I don't think they'll be doing it again, not because they have learned a lesson or anything but because I doubt they have any blue collar wc in their ranks to expell. Lets just say their middle class/academic cadre don't have the aggresive conditioning that many wc grow up with.
> 
> ...


 

numbers game perhaps. Outnumbered is still outnumbered even if your opposition is all UAF stereotype student effete etc.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 24, 2011)

it's also difficult to recruit a load of kids who've signed up against Islam to broaden out their scope into trashing UAF/SWP meetings... in their 'active' branches they seem to keep their 'activist' schedule busy with small scale publicity stunts and weird shit like that Blackburn anti-Halal protest.


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## manny-p (Feb 24, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> it's also difficult to recruit a load of kids who've signed up against Islam to broaden out their scope into trashing UAF/SWP meetings... in their 'active' branches they seem to keep their 'activist' schedule busy with small scale publicity stunts and weird shit like that Blackburn anti-Halal protest.


 
Are you in the SWP? If so explain please.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 24, 2011)

Below is  the Code Of Conduct again. Appreciate thoughts. In my politically geeky way I think it is interesting because of 

1) the blatant unapologetic and unjustified authoritarianism. 

2) The fact that hoards of keyboard warriors and people on demos are breaching this code all the time with racism and threats of violence, thus the lack of discipline in an organisation that proclaims supreme discipline - funny if nothing else.

3) The EDL discussions of it reveal, as one might suspect, that the willing adherents are very keen in their unquestioning allegience. Hardly a suprise in itself, but good evidence of the dupe mindset of the lower echelons in the organisation.


_Due to the mighty progression of the English Defence League over the past year we have had to put certain things in place. The new RO structure is now up and running and although there have been a few teething problems seems to be starting to work well. The leadership now feel it is time to introduce a small code of conduct that it expects members to follow. The below code of conduct has been drafted by the EDL leadership and it is expected that all true members would agree with it and adhere to it. All such movements have a similar code that they are expected to follow. The code of conduct is applicable at all levels of the EDL from leadership down. Should any members disagreewith the code then this can be for no other reason than they want to destroy the EDL movement and halt its rapid progression, and are therefore not welcome. If you are unhappy with certain factors of the CoC then feel free to raise these with your division leaders and Regional Organisers for discussion.



1) No member shall act to the detriment of the E D L movement / organisation and bring its members into disrepute. In particular, members shall at all times, refrain from Public or private attacks on the competence, reputation and honour of any other members of the E D L movement of organisation. Any threats of physical or verbal abuse will be met by the removal of said party/s from the movement if found to have any substance of truth.



2) Mutual Assistance. Members shall assist each other in every practical way. Members shall conduct themselves respectfully towards their fellow members and the E D L movement. Members are reminded that any information which may come to them in the course of their work / endeavours is privileged information and WILL be treated with confidentiality, and are asked to communicate with a third party without authority. They shall require those assisting them in their work to be similarly bound. No member shall disclose at anytime privileged or personal information about other members.



3) In making Public statements ain in their contact with the media, members must always be vigilant about the fact they are E D L and anything that they may convey to the media will be taken as a formal statement and construed as a representation of the entire E D L movement, one should act accordingly with the utmost integrity, dignity and above all professionalism.



4) No member of the E D L shall make any personal gains from any information that has come to them due to their work / endeavours for, or on behalf of the E D L movement. No E D L member mat accept monies from any parties whatsoever during the carrying out of their work / endeavours for the E D L. Excluded will be personal expenses or monies paid out by members personally.



5) All members must adhere to the correct chain of command, this must be observed at ALL times. Any complaints, queries of problems MUST be filtered through the correct channels i.e. division leaders & regional organisers, at no point mat any member supersede this chain of command. If a complaint is made about another’s member’s conduct through these channels in no way shall anyone intimidate or retaliate against that person/s that has made the complaint.



6) Any person/s found/proven to be in breach of this constitution would face a potential disciplinary hearing consisting of all the relevant regional organisers and division leaders as well as leadership. A decision would then be made on the person/s future with the E D L. Leadership reserve the right to have the final resolution in the said matter.



7) All members signing & agreeing to this said document also swear allegiance to the ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE, to its members, leadership and infrastructure present and future. Any person/s found committing any acts of treachery knowingly and contravening this Constitution will be disciplined according to the Constitution, if found guilty, removed from the E D L organisation with immediate and forever boycotted from and all contact from all E D L members and the E D L movement itself in whole._


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 24, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> it's also difficult to recruit a load of kids who've signed up against Islam to broaden out their scope into trashing UAF/SWP meetings... in their 'active' branches they seem to keep their 'activist' schedule busy with small scale publicity stunts and weird shit like that Blackburn anti-Halal protest.



Yeah but no but...No one said anything about recruiting from the ranks of the EDL. They don't represent WC. I'm talking in general. There are millions of working class people and there are loads of different attitudes and tones and varying cultural aspects. A left wing culture has not been cultivated amongst the wc. It has been deliberatley allowed to wither. Take Spain for example, In Madrid and Catalunya the anti fascists are working class and militant. It's part of their culture. Whole football crews are reds. In Madrid the skinheads organize anti fascist boxing tournaments where more than a thousand attend. Why? because they have maintained traditions...

So, where does the left recruit, then?


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## Ranbay (Feb 24, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> They reckon they are going to protest 4 hours a day for a month outside a Blackburn KFC. That's some commitment, why dont these keen AR vegan activists get along to an ALF Gathering as well?


 
they can only have 15 people at a time, they started it Saturday, i cant see it lasting a month, i would so love to be close enough to join them for an hour or two then nip in and get some food


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 24, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yeah but no but...No one said anything about recruiting from the ranks of the EDL. They don't represent WC. I'm talking in general. There are millions of working class people and there are loads of different attitudes and tones and varying cultural aspects. A left wing culture has not been cultivated amongst the wc. It has been deliberatley allowed to wither. Take Spain for example, In Madrid and Catalunya the anti fascists are working class and militant. It's part of their culture. Whole football crews are reds. In Madrid the skinheads organize anti fascist boxing tournaments where more than a thousand attend. Why? because they have maintained traditions...
> 
> So, where does the left recruit, then?



that wasn't what i was trying to say - i meant it's hard for the EDL to transfer their own recruits from one form of activity to another.


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 24, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> that wasn't what i was trying to say - i meant it's hard for the EDL to transfer their own recruits from one form of activity to another.



Ok, now I get ya. The wording led to a misunderstanding. By the looks of things they "are" getting some results in transferring EDL attention in other directions, ie, against the left.

Look at Barnsley. About 45 of them turned up to defend "democracy and free speech". In other words the right for the BNP to have a stall. That is Open EDL BNP collaboration. Nothing to do with Islam.

The motivation behind their appearance must be one of the following. Either that they think the UAF is their enemy so therefore turn up wherever they are or in Barnsley all EDL are BNP, or EDL dupes get drawn in because after 15 years of so called respectability the BNP are not properly recognized as nazis.


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## The39thStep (Feb 24, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Ok, now I get ya. The wording led to a misunderstanding. By the looks of things they "are" getting some results in transferring EDL attention in other directions, ie, against the left.
> 
> Look at Barnsley. About 45 of them turned up to defend "democracy and free speech". In other words the right for the BNP to have a stall. That is Open EDL BNP collaboration. Nothing to do with Islam.
> 
> The motivation behind their appearance must be one of the following. Either that they think the UAF is their enemy so therefore turn up wherever they are or in Barnsley all EDL are BNP, or EDL dupes get drawn in because after 15 years of so called respectability the BNP are not properly recognized as nazis.


 
Take the former. All they will have seen is UAF et al threatening to 'smash the edl' on placards and flyers for meetings.


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 24, 2011)

Apparently the ENA/EDL are organising a march through Brighton 'again', this Easter bank holiday ffs! 

Time to leave some eggs outside to ripen!

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8862422.Another_nationalist_march_planned_for_Brighton_and_Hove/


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## elbows (Feb 24, 2011)

My brain has been thrown into crisis as a result of a large argument I had with 3 female work colleagues who I was travelling in a car with on the way home. I've spoken before about my workplace and how it presents opportunities for me to understand working class attitudes as it relates to EDL-type stuff, as Im almost the only middle class (by virtue of having teachers for parents) person who works here. Well tonight it became too much, started off as one of these women mentioning that 'we'/'the british' were the only ones in the country who didnt have human rights, and then descended into stuff about the black music awards, not being allowed to dislike someone who happened to be asian who was also a twat, because that would be deemed to be racist, etc. No attempt by me to talk about politics, economics, the media, or human obsessions with differences rather than similarities made the slightest bit of difference, no matter how I put it. In fact it got worse, and the woman who had previously lied to me by saying that she wouldnt let her boyfriend go on a local EDL rally, when in fact I subsequently found out that she has told other people that she attended the 2nd EDL event that came here to Nuneaton, started with the old 'we are going to become a minority in our own country'. Challenging this 'fact' proved futile, as expected.

So anyways, I've got to get out. Im all too aware of the reasons why this sort of attitude has arisen, but people arent interested in arguing about these underlying causes, and I dont know how to handle this stuff anymore. I dont think Im equipped to fight the battle on this front, at least not without a shred of hope that anything I can say will make a blind bit of difference. I just cant take it, right now Im going mad, shouting at fuming, drooling and wibbling, planning to resign on Monday morning when my boss is next available. AAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## Serotonin (Feb 24, 2011)

elbows said:


> My brain has been thrown into crisis as a result of a large argument I had with 3 female work colleagues who I was travelling in a car with on the way home. I've spoken before about my workplace and how it presents opportunities for me to understand working class attitudes as it relates to EDL-type stuff, as Im almost the only middle class (by virtue of having teachers for parents) person who works here. Well tonight it became too much, started off as one of these women mentioning that 'we'/'the british' were the only ones in the country who didnt have human rights, and then descended into stuff about the black music awards, not being allowed to dislike someone who happened to be asian who was also a twat, because that would be deemed to be racist, etc. No attempt by me to talk about politics, economics, the media, or human obsessions with differences rather than similarities made the slightest bit of difference, no matter how I put it. In fact it got worse, and the woman who had previously lied to me by saying that she wouldnt let her boyfriend go on a local EDL rally, when in fact I subsequently found out that she has told other people that she attended the 2nd EDL event that came here to Nuneaton, started with the old 'we are going to become a minority in our own country'. Challenging this 'fact' proved futile, as expected.
> 
> So anyways, I've got to get out. Im all too aware of the reasons why this sort of attitude has arisen, but people arent interested in arguing about these underlying causes, and I dont know how to handle this stuff anymore. I dont think Im equipped to fight the battle on this front, at least not without a shred of hope that anything I can say will make a blind bit of difference. I just cant take it, right now Im going mad, shouting at fuming, drooling and wibbling, planning to resign on Monday morning when my boss is next available. AAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


 
Ask her how come a lot of  white people have won the MOBOs over the last 10 years? Watch her head explode.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2011)

I've been doing a bit of this recently and deduced that the best course of action is to definitely not argue. It doesn't work, it just entrenches people.

The best thing to do is to allow them to talk. Lots. Now and again you'll nudge it in the right direction or throw in a particular question. But apart from that say little. Because they're eager to fill the conversational void. And when you don't respond they question what it is they have said. And they talk themselves into knots.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> Ask her how come a lot of  white people have won the MOBOs over the last 10 years? Watch her head explode.


 
Or which music she likes is of black origin. She'll doubtlessly be surprised if she does her homework.


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## elbows (Feb 24, 2011)

Cheers for the tips  I've often sone such things in the past, cant say it achieved meaningful results but it at least kept things calm and allowed more space for me to understand their attitudes. But I think Im done this time, I cant fight on this front when I cant even stand to hear this shit anymore, right now I never want to see these people again in any capacity, they have worn me out, broken my spirit. Yet I am caught between a rock and a hard place, because Im not going to shit on the working class by adopting the bbc type tactic for dealing with EDL etc. So I will retreat, the struggle is futile when fought on this front, or at least Im not cut out for it. So to protect my opinion of the working class I must run away for now, and will only come back when the struggle is being waged in different ways, ways where I can find some common ground.


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 24, 2011)

elbows said:


> My brain has been thrown into crisis as a result of a large argument I had with 3 female work colleagues who I was travelling in a car with on the way home. I've spoken before about my workplace and how it presents opportunities for me to understand working class attitudes as it relates to EDL-type stuff, as Im almost the only middle class (by virtue of having teachers for parents) person who works here. Well tonight it became too much, started off as one of these women mentioning that 'we'/'the british' were the only ones in the country who didnt have human rights, and then descended into stuff about the black music awards, not being allowed to dislike someone who happened to be asian who was also a twat, because that would be deemed to be racist, etc. No attempt by me to talk about politics, economics, the media, or human obsessions with differences rather than similarities made the slightest bit of difference, no matter how I put it. In fact it got worse, and the woman who had previously lied to me by saying that she wouldnt let her boyfriend go on a local EDL rally, when in fact I subsequently found out that she has told other people that she attended the 2nd EDL event that came here to Nuneaton, started with the old 'we are going to become a minority in our own country'. Challenging this 'fact' proved futile, as expected.
> 
> So anyways, I've got to get out. Im all too aware of the reasons why this sort of attitude has arisen, but people arent interested in arguing about these underlying causes, and I dont know how to handle this stuff anymore. I dont think Im equipped to fight the battle on this front, at least not without a shred of hope that anything I can say will make a blind bit of difference. I just cant take it, right now Im going mad, shouting at fuming, drooling and wibbling, planning to resign on Monday morning when my boss is next available. AAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



They're winding you up, mate. They know you're political. Next time they talk like that surprise them with a complete change of heart and adopt the politics of one of the more extreme right wingers who go on EDL demos. Turn into an out an out racist for 5 minutes and check their reaction. You may be surprised by the result


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## elbows (Feb 24, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> They're winding you up, mate. They know you're political. Next time they talk like that surprise them with a complete change of heart and adopt the politics of one of the more extreme right wingers who go on EDL demos. Turn into an out an out racist for 5 minutes and check their reaction. You may be surprised by the result


 
A fun idea but I cant do that sort of thing, Im just not capable of ranting about stuff that I dont believe in, at least not without adopting a comedy voice doing it parody style.

Certainly Im not feeling hard done by or ganged up on by them, I speak freely about my strongly held beliefs a lot, including at work, so I cant complain when others exercise the same right. Its just that I've had enough, I dont think I can bring myself to serve these people in the workplace any longer, it feels like a betrayal of what I want to do with my time as a living being.

I think the extreme juxtaposition between this shit and what I have been feeling while watching the uprisings in other countries has likely contributed to my failure to be able to deal with this shit right now. I've not been able to find another human being in my daily life apart from my mum with which to share the triumphs and setbacks of the people who are struggling overseas. If it wasnt for being able to talk to people on the net I think my hometown would have utterly killed my spirit years ago, and I would have felt the urgent need to escape much sooner. A part of me never wants to abandon this place, but the area has been mangled by exploitation, poverty and sick media for too long, its a monster whose redeeming features are presently invisible to me, although I know they are there somewhere.


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 24, 2011)

I just copied this off the EDL facebook. It's fresh from 3 hours ago.



> Why when i turn the TV on or read a paper is the first thing i see 9/10 times a muslim burning a flag or waving his hook around telling us to read a book that is written backwards because its right and because we live in our own country with our own traditions, rights laws and customs that we deserve to die because we ...



Answer: Because the media is controlled and because there are interests that are manipulating you so that you become islamaphobic, so that your mindset is so confused that you act like a robot, helping to divide and rule. Get a life...


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## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 24, 2011)

> I've spoken before about my workplace and how it presents opportunities for me to understand working class attitudes as it relates to EDL-type stuff,



You're a clown chief.


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## The39thStep (Feb 24, 2011)

peronally never saw any real justification for the MOBOs apart from profit.


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## elbows (Feb 24, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> You're a clown chief.


 
I may not have worded those sentiments very well, but perhaps you could expand on this point for me. In what way does me trying to make the best of having to listen to endless racist shit at work make me a clown? Should I write all these people off using disturbing labels such as chav? There are many ways I could insulate my brain against the hideous shit I've had to listen to for more than a decade, but instead I've tried to learn something from it rather than become Jeremy Paxman and just sneer or laugh or dehumanise. Why does that make me a clown? Hell half he reason I've put up with all this is because middle class shit winds me up just as much. Feel free to mock or ridicule my stance but please try to add at least a little detail so that I may try to learn from my mistakes.


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 25, 2011)

People are people. Class is hugely significant in terms of economic and social interests, but you don't need to relate to working class people any differently than people you assume to be from your class. Same fears, same worries, same conflicts.

I almost can't believe I'm saying this!


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 25, 2011)

FrogWoman

I know that's a horrible situation to be in, but please dont even think about throwing the job in because of a couple of under-informed bigots. That's a victory for, well, under informed bigotry. Have they ever discussed the banking heist and the cuts?


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## elbows (Feb 25, 2011)

Its me, not frogwoman that has been saying this stuff, but thanks anyway.

Proper Tidy, the possible reason for my complete bumbling around this topic of class here is that I dont normally look at class either as it relates to myself or other people that I actually know, indeed I've sometimes bitched about class obsessions on u75. However when it comes to my work colleagues in general and the attention I've paid to EDL due to them turning up in my town a few times in 2010 and causing trouble, its done my head in and lately I've been struggling to cope or to think through my feelings and talk about this stuff. Generally I hate human obsessions with the differences between people instead of the similarities, but I feel so isolated right now that I've likely fallen into the same trap. I struggle badly to find common ground at work, there are plenty of similarities really but not very many in terms of topics of conversations, where everything from the way they talk about women to these race & cultural issues to politics and economics, and beyond into day-to-day stuff like hobbies and social activities, makes me feel like we are on different planets. Im left with only the workplace and what happens there as the main common-ground, which means I get on fine if Im bitching about the management and owners who are driving everyone crazy at the moment, but as soon as I veer away from this topic disaster strikes and I am left floundering.


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## revlon (Feb 25, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Class is hugely significant in terms of economic and social interests, but you don't need to relate to working class people any differently than people you assume to be from your class. Same fears, same worries, same conflicts.


 
surely first sentence contradicts second sentence?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 25, 2011)

elbows said:


> Its me, not frogwoman that has been saying this stuff, but thanks anyway.
> 
> Proper Tidy, the possible reason for my complete bumbling around this topic of class here is that I dont normally look at class either as it relates to myself or other people that I actually know, indeed I've sometimes bitched about class obsessions on u75. However when it comes to my work colleagues in general and the attention I've paid to EDL due to them turning up in my town a few times in 2010 and causing trouble, its done my head in and lately I've been struggling to cope or to think through my feelings and talk about this stuff. Generally I hate human obsessions with the differences between people instead of the similarities, but I feel so isolated right now that I've likely fallen into the same trap. I struggle badly to find common ground at work, there are plenty of similarities really but not very many in terms of topics of conversations, where everything from the way they talk about women to these race & cultural issues to politics and economics, and beyond into day-to-day stuff like hobbies and social activities, makes me feel like we are on different planets. Im left with only the workplace and what happens there as the main common-ground, which means I get on fine if Im bitching about the management and owners who are driving everyone crazy at the moment, but as soon as I veer away from this topic disaster strikes and I am left floundering.


 
Dunno. It's fucking difficult. I've never been in that position for a prolonged period, lucky I guess. If it was or 2 people like that you could probably live with it, when you are thoroughly the odd one out it's a lot more difficult. Are there some in your workplace who might not actually fit the mould? Could be more liberal or don't actually join in in the right wing stuff? Dont want to be patronising or come out with silly ideas, but perhaps having a decent politics book on you that you read occasionally instead of talking with them might get one of them to say "what are you reading" and that starts of a conversation far more on your terms. Truth is though that islamohate is pretty rife among some people and you wont change that, or even your experience of it, by leaving. If it was me I would keep banging on about the banks and cuts. If the muslims had stolen £10s of thousands from every citizen they would be out with the pitchforks, so what's the difference?


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## Proper Tidy (Feb 25, 2011)

revlon said:


> surely first sentence contradicts second sentence?


 
It was a bit confused tbh, yeah. I shouldn't post pissed.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 25, 2011)

Even some EDL-ers have the ability to spell "u turn"

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/45704/edl-dismisses-jewish-arm-too-extreme-0


----------



## revlon (Feb 25, 2011)

night of the long knives?


----------



## LLETSA (Feb 25, 2011)

elbows said:


> Its me, not frogwoman that has been saying this stuff, but thanks anyway.
> 
> Proper Tidy, the possible reason for my complete bumbling around this topic of class here is that I dont normally look at class either as it relates to myself or other people that I actually know, indeed I've sometimes bitched about class obsessions on u75. However when it comes to my work colleagues in general and the attention I've paid to EDL due to them turning up in my town a few times in 2010 and causing trouble, its done my head in and lately I've been struggling to cope or to think through my feelings and talk about this stuff. Generally I hate human obsessions with the differences between people instead of the similarities, but I feel so isolated right now that I've likely fallen into the same trap. I struggle badly to find common ground at work, there are plenty of similarities really but not very many in terms of topics of conversations, where everything from the way they talk about women to these race & cultural issues to politics and economics, and beyond into day-to-day stuff like hobbies and social activities, makes me feel like we are on different planets. Im left with only the workplace and what happens there as the main common-ground, which means I get on fine if Im bitching about the management and owners who are driving everyone crazy at the moment, but as soon as I veer away from this topic disaster strikes and I am left floundering.


 
This kind of thing will only bother you during the period in life you expect things to get better. Once you come to realise that the world is just one big fucking nuthouse where all the stupid bastards have the loudest voices, it will come to bother you less. 

Mark my words.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 25, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Even some EDL-ers have the ability to spell "u turn"
> 
> http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/45704/edl-dismisses-jewish-arm-too-extreme-0


 
So, they've kicked out the Jewish division. Perhaps the sponsorship money ran out. Will they be waving Israeli flags at their next do? Just have to wait and see.

They will be pleased over on Scumfront.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 26, 2011)

Just the same as Rangers supporters waving the Star of David. They do it because they think the  opposition supports the Palestinians


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 26, 2011)

Looks like they have kicked out the ENA.....


http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/1819/Fortnight-of-Turmoil-Boils-Over


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Looks like they have kicked out the ENA.....
> 
> 
> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/1819/Fortnight-of-Turmoil-Boils-Over



So, they are busy trying to clean their image up and severing links to ENA and the Roberta Moore (jewish division) connection. 

Why do you think they're doing it?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 26, 2011)

for a laugh?


----------



## revlon (Feb 26, 2011)

afternoon of the short stabs


----------



## Luther Blissett (Feb 26, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> So, they are busy trying to clean their image up and severing links to ENA and the Roberta Moore (jewish division) connection.
> 
> Why do you think they're doing it?


 
Why do you think they're doing it?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Feb 26, 2011)

The semi-fictitious 'Jewish' division are claiming that EDL made an alliance with the JTF back in 2010 at an Amsterdam Rally  (http://edl-englishdefenceleague.[space]blogspot.com/2011/02/our-response-to-jewish-chronicle.html). This claim is inaccurate and inadequate, but then most of Moore's claims are inaccurate, so no-one should be surprised at this sad fact.

'Aeneas', from the ICLA, spoke about the EDL to the gathered crowd of anti-Islam Wilders supporters in April 2010 in Berlin . He took along with him an EDL Portsmouth Division (Trevor Kelway's division) banner to drape on the podium. JTF were there in the crowd. At the later Amsterdam rally, ICLA's Aeneas, (who was chaperoning EDL co-leader 'Tommy Robinson'), was photographed with the JTF supporter (Aeneas is ICLA, working with the EDL). It is this photograph of ICLA's Aeneas, and a UKIP candidate (Paul Weston) which the semi-fictitious 'Jewish' division are claiming proves a link between JTF and EDL. 

The reality is that UK-based ICLA spokesman 'Aeneas Lavinium' made the initial connection with the JTF in Berlin where he gave a speech about the EDL. The link that the semi-fictitious 'Jewish' division claim is through EDL, is in reality through prominent UK-based ICLA and CVF members, rather than EDL directly. The direct networking with JTF has been made through the semi-fictitious 'Jewish' division, run by the many-named Roberta Moore and her equally-foulmouthed sidekick 'Cassandra Victoria' aka Shoshana. Moore has long been part of the CVF and associated herself openly with ICLA 'friends' since last quarter of 2009.

Through ICLA's UK contact/spokesman 'Aeneas', EDL leaders have been introduced to other anti-Islam groups (Amsterdam, New York)
Aeneas and ICLA are fully involved with the Counter Jihad Europa project, run by the CVF, one of Frank Gaffney's many post-PNAC/Bush administration projects. It was ICLA's Aeneas who spoke at the Counter Jihad Europa project's annual conference, about the EDL.  
This: http://www.powerbase.info/index.php?title=CounterJihad_Europa doesn't include any link directly to the ICLA. The link to the ICLA comes through the CVF: http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/The_Center_for_Vigilant_Freedom which runs both ICLA and Counter Jihad Europa as 'projects'.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 27, 2011)

elbows said:


> Its me, not frogwoman that has been saying this stuff, but thanks anyway.
> 
> Proper Tidy, the possible reason for my complete bumbling around this topic of class here is that I dont normally look at class either as it relates to myself or other people that I actually know, indeed I've sometimes bitched about class obsessions on u75. However when it comes to my work colleagues in general and the attention I've paid to EDL due to them turning up in my town a few times in 2010 and causing trouble, its done my head in and lately I've been struggling to cope or to think through my feelings and talk about this stuff. Generally I hate human obsessions with the differences between people instead of the similarities, but I feel so isolated right now that I've likely fallen into the same trap. I struggle badly to find common ground at work, there are plenty of similarities really but not very many in terms of topics of conversations, where everything from the way they talk about women to these race & cultural issues to politics and economics, and beyond into day-to-day stuff like hobbies and social activities, makes me feel like we are on different planets. Im left with only the workplace and what happens there as the main common-ground, which means I get on fine if Im bitching about the management and owners who are driving everyone crazy at the moment, but as soon as I veer away from this topic disaster strikes and I am left floundering.


 
I think this article puts some of what you have experienced into some broader context:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/27/support-poll-support-far-right


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2011)

Doh !!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/178725


----------



## treelover (Feb 27, 2011)

'I think this article puts some of what you have experienced into some broader context:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/fe...port-far-right'


I think that article deserves its own thread over on politics


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 27, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Doh !!
> 
> http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/178725


 
Yes, the Star is anti EDL on sundays. The rest of the week it supports them. Two different editors apparently. Britain's first Bi-polar friendly newspaper.
The EDL which is going thru a purge phase at the moment "The afternoon of the platic forks", has kicked out the ENA, the jewish division and will now probably have to act on these loyalist wannabees from the photo shoot in the Star.

Why the purge? Why the attempt at a clean up of their image? 

Wasn't it said they intended to start a political party? Maybe that's the reason. _If not it must be another "amazing" victory for the UAF, no doubt. _ (Put that in italics as it's supposed to be ironic...)


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 27, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> I think this article puts some of what you have experienced into some broader context:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/feb/27/support-poll-support-far-right


 Depressing reading.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Feb 27, 2011)

> #EDL have a double headed problem at the moment. Bill Baker and Roberta Moore:



From http://twitpic.com/44bxg3


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/English.Defence.League.EDL/posts/100259076722491

Better than Eastenders FACT


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 27, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> Depressing reading.


 
Searchlight have to justify their funding somehow.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 27, 2011)

Yes they do.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2011)




----------



## Luther Blissett (Feb 27, 2011)

Tommy Robinson still on bail for money-laundering
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...tigated-for-money-laundering-115875-22951792/


----------



## jonked (Mar 1, 2011)

elbows, I feel for you as I know Nuneaton well. I have been really alarmed by the rise of the far right back in my home town. I've been sent reeling this week by discovering that one of my close relatives is now an EDL/BNP activist with his own propaganda website. I grew up with this guy, I know deep down he's pretty decent, but he has absolutely swallowed the EDL line and has the fervent look of the true believer. I'm really disturbed by the fact he is obviously trying to influence my family and am kind of at a loss of whether to try to engage with him politically or not.

Thankfully I live in a nice liberal place. But at the moment I kind of feel guilty for leaving.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 1, 2011)

.Today on March 1st at 15.00hrs Tommy Robinson has been re-arrested on a section 4 public order offence concerning the Poppy burning incident.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks Bob


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 3, 2011)

Not 100% but it looks like he was suposed to apear in court last month and didnt show up. 

On Newsnight he was getting a call from his breif saying no need to show up all charges dropped, but then they where saying it's now a section 4?

thing is you can't trust anything they say.


----------



## The Black Hand (Mar 3, 2011)

The real story is not the Islamification of Britain, but the secularisation;
http://greenwedge.org/2011/01/05/the-islamification-of-britain/


----------



## invisibleplanet (Mar 3, 2011)

The Black Hand said:


> The real story is not the Islamification of Britain, but the secularisation;
> http://greenwedge.org/2011/01/05/the-islamification-of-britain/


Excellent article. Thanks!


----------



## The Black Hand (Mar 3, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> Excellent article. Thanks!


 
I aim to please


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 4, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Mar 4, 2011)

oh and...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/mar/04/daily-star-reporter-letter-full?intcmp=239


----------



## manny-p (Mar 5, 2011)

The morons are in Rochdale today. 



> ***DEMO DETAILS***
> We will be meeting at the train station between 12-00 - 1-00 .From there we will make our way up to a public house in the town center.At 2pm we will make our way over to our demo point at the town hall .


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 5, 2011)

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...nce_league_and_unite_against_fascism_protests

live updates, 3 arrested already.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 5, 2011)

is this Leon Britain actually Leon Mcreery? or do the EDL just seem to attract ex loyalists with dodgy pasts?


----------



## Fingers (Mar 5, 2011)

They are protesting a non-existent Muslim only toilet in Rochdale, on the back of a story the Star made up.

Meanwhile, in Blackburn, they are still making twats of themselves outside a KFC in an 'anti halal' 30 day demo.  Well it turns out the restaurant is not actually halal.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 5, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/46cs54/full


----------



## manny-p (Mar 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/46cs54/full


 
aww poor mummy


----------



## manny-p (Mar 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...nce_league_and_unite_against_fascism_protests
> 
> live updates, 3 arrested already.



cheers good page


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 5, 2011)

JonMacMEN: #edl one more arrest - seven arrests in total. three public order offences, two for offensive weapons, one drunk and disorderly, one theft.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> oh and...
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/mar/04/daily-star-reporter-letter-full?intcmp=239


 


B0B2oo9 said:


> http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...nce_league_and_unite_against_fascism_protests
> 
> live updates, 3 arrested already.


 


B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/46cs54/full



Bob, could you post summaries for the links you throw up please?

Because it's nice to have a hint of what it's about and also it keeps some of the information on the thread should the url become dead at a later date.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 5, 2011)

yeah no probs.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 5, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-12657028

Rochdale EDL and UAF protests: 17 arrests


On the feed says 23 arrests now.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 5, 2011)

> JonMacMEN: #edl arrest tally now stands at 35 [via Twitter]



More than Luton, lol


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 5, 2011)

GMP don't mess about


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 6, 2011)

looks like another pretty poor turnout. From both sides.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 6, 2011)

There was an ant-cuts demo in manchester which may have divided the UAF/SWP side.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 6, 2011)

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=344


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 6, 2011)

searchlight said:
			
		

> In his eyes Liberals Democrats are not too far away from [...]“totalitarianism”,



Something the EDL got right, at least ...


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 6, 2011)

EDL peacefuly protesting Muslim Peado gangs.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 7, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=344


 

Thanks.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 7, 2011)

EDL on the Train to Rochdale,


----------



## manny-p (Mar 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> EDL on the Train to Rochdale,




Feel sorry for the commuters(especially if any happened to be muslim).  Words fail me as to how retarded these people are.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 7, 2011)

What's more shocking is these thick fuckers upload it to youtube....


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 7, 2011)

EDL now to protest outside ASDA every week like forever or something.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Mar 7, 2011)

Fucking outrageous ---- smoking on  a train. 

Am off to burn some poppies in disgust.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 8, 2011)

Anyone read the full Searchlight survey and analysis on attitudes to race, culture and identity?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 8, 2011)

No


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 8, 2011)

Looked really long so i didn't bother.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 8, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Anyone read the full Searchlight survey and analysis on attitudes to race, culture and identity?



Is it worth it?


----------



## revlon (Mar 8, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Anyone read the full Searchlight survey and analysis on attitudes to race, culture and identity?


 
was at an event on saturday where anthony painter did a power point presentation on the very subject, with his colourful graphs and everything. RMT's Steve Hedley was part of the panel as well.

It was a very consultancy-speak kind of presentation which reflects the nature of the survey. The conclusions will fuel future government policy-maker decisions rather than drum up discusssion in the pubs and mosques of the country.


----------



## elbows (Mar 8, 2011)

jonked said:


> elbows, I feel for you as I know Nuneaton well. I have been really alarmed by the rise of the far right back in my home town.


 
Cheers, sorry for the delay in responding to this, and cheers to the others who said helpful things about my ranting here. Anyway once I calmed down and did some calculations I realised that I am financially doomed and so cannot leave either Nuneaton or my job at this present time, back to the reality that I cannot run from this shit unless I resuscitate a career that has been stagnant for a decade. 

On the bright side someone at work today started ranting about the coalition instead of the usual bollocks. And someone else who is linked to those who upset me most just over a week ago, may have just come unstuck by doing something very naughty at work and being caught. This is small comfort considering the serious issues at play here, but I need all the comfort and sources of hope I can lay my hands on.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 9, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Is it worth it?


 
It is  actually. It is long , has loads of data in it and the way in which it is formatted makes it hard to read but it is interesting. 

It does provide  evidence that the no borders, multiculturalism is fantastic view is around 8% of those surveyed and is overwhelmingly middle class. 

It says many things but some of the findings of the report actually don't fit its political conclusions. One example is the fact that those it says who are most at risk of backing the far right are those who have been and will be affected by the recession . Who ends up quoting the report on Sunday morning but David Milliband, a member of the labour govt whose economic policies created the opportunity for the BNP in the first place.Yet  no where within the document is there any mention of a fight against cuts or the economic situation .

Another conclusion is that a non violent anti muslim, anti europe anti immigration party could take advantage as the BNP are finished ( apparently still rooted in white supremacy compared to the diverse EDL) and the EDL is compromised by its image. So having bigged up the EDL as an alternative to the BNP ( and still bigging them up with its latest article on Lake) it is now bigging up the potential for another group to take a lead. Who and why? and where are the actual forces for this?

Its big push is the bringing all parts of the community together against extremism , 'a curse on both their their houses' type approach.

However  the actual survey shows glaring differences in white, black and Asian attitudes to the importance of nationality, ethnicity and religion ( probably due to years of top down multiculralism and a liberal left who have played the same game) .It does show as well that support for restricted  immigration extends across ethnicity and that it is seen as an economic threat to pay and employment. 

What is doesn't answer though is what their attitudes are to any of the underlying economic issues that the report at one point dwells on .So fight extremism but don't advocate any fightback against the recession. That might upset the party that they have thrown their main lot in with , the Labour Party; and although they are not explicit about in this document they stated before Xmas something on the lines of in the same way there is challenge to the orthodoxy of strikes against the cuts by an alternative of more inclusive community organisation that a similar approach was required in fighting fascism. 

Worth a read and some thought.


----------



## albionism (Mar 9, 2011)

elbows said:


> Cheers, sorry for the delay in responding to this, and cheers to the others who said helpful things about my ranting here. Anyway once I calmed down and did some calculations I realised that I am financially doomed and so cannot leave either Nuneaton or my job at this present time, back to the reality that I cannot run from this shit unless I resuscitate a career that has been stagnant for a decade.
> 
> On the bright side someone at work today started ranting about the coalition instead of the usual bollocks. And someone else who is linked to those who upset me most just over a week ago, may have just come unstuck by doing something very naughty at work and being caught. This is small comfort considering the serious issues at play here, but I need all the comfort and sources of hope I can lay my hands on.



I've been there mate, in a similar situation..I worked for some 5 years for a painting/decorating/refurbishment firm, late 90's early 00's, 
with Daily Star, Daily Mail, Daily Sport reading fuck-wits. Every day i had to listen to "coon" this and "paki" that and i was, for financial 
reasons, trapped in that job with no way out and i dreaded going to work every morning. Try as i did, on a daily basis, there was just 
no breaking through their thick skulls with argument and discussion and reason and facts (though i was tempted on occasion to break 
through them with a heavy hammer!). I remember being the only person, in a workforce of some 25-30, who opposed the Iraq war 
and i felt i was in a very lonely place indeed.  Good luck with your situation.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 9, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> It is  actually. It is long , has loads of data in it and the way in which it is formatted makes it hard to read but it is interesting.
> 
> It does provide  evidence that the no borders, multiculturalism is fantastic view is around 8% of those surveyed and is overwhelmingly middle class.
> 
> ...


 
Okay cheers for that. Will give it a read.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 9, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Anyone read the full Searchlight survey and analysis on attitudes to race, culture and identity?



link?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2011)

Lazy, tsk

http://www.fearandhope.org.uk/project-report/


----------



## manny-p (Mar 9, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Lazy, tsk
> 
> http://www.fearandhope.org.uk/project-report/


 
It took me awhile to find it to be fair.


----------



## BlackArab (Mar 9, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> It is  actually. It is long , has loads of data in it and the way in which it is formatted makes it hard to read but it is interesting.
> 
> It does provide  evidence that the no borders, multiculturalism is fantastic view is around 8% of those surveyed and is overwhelmingly middle class.
> 
> ...



The report states nothing then which isn't obvious or widely known.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 9, 2011)

All  the effort I put in reading the thing and drawing outsome points deserved a bit more thought than that


----------



## revlon (Mar 9, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> All  the effort I put in reading the thing and drawing outsome points deserved a bit more thought than that


 

The bright colours certainly dazzle.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

I dont normally do this sort of thing but bloody hell  

Elie Baroud i think doing that [putting EDL as a religion in the census], we're gona loose support from the christian organizations in england such as the church of england that already is backing us up secretly ...



Jesus


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 10, 2011)

lol


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

LISTEN TO THIS !! Ive just read that the people of a town in spain found a way to stop the planned construcion of a mosque in their area by burying a pig on the proposed site then making sure the media knew about it. Islamic rules forbid mosques being built on
" Pig soiled ground " and so the project was cancelled !!
Sounds like a plan..


16 people like this.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 10, 2011)

Bless


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

Spot the made-up story  


_I'm a polite and helpful bloke, and went to help some muslim neighbours who I didn't know, but who needed to be warned about something.

In gratitude I was told by one of the young men "if I see my people (muslims) attacking you, I'll try to ...stop them - normally if I saw a white man being attacked, I'd just join in & give him a good kicking, no questions asked".

That was the day I decided that I had to get involved with EDL. I've been actively figting racism all my life - and I've never heard a white man say such a thing about joining in if a black man or asian man was being attacked.

One of my neighbours is also a liberal anti-racist like me - he confirmed what a local EDL man told me -- a couple of years back the police had to be called to the area because muslims were manning the gates of local parks, and refusing entry to non-muslims.

These things show us what we can expect from the future._


His profile pic is an anti-semitic cartoon from an Iranian Newspaper


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

No one calls it racist
When the daffodil's worn in Wales
Or is offended by their dragon
With its forked tail and scales

...When St Patrick’s day comes round
And the shamrock's being worn
The Irish are not treated
With insult or with scorn

If a Scotsman on St Andrew’s day
Hoists his flag aloft
He’s not proclaimed a fascist
Or ridiculed or scoffed

So when St George's Day arrives
We English men wont hide
For Elizabeth, England & St George
We’ll wear our Rose with pride


----------



## fiannanahalba (Mar 10, 2011)

The poem is ruined by the inclusion of Elizabrit in the second last line.  Progressive patriotism in England is almost invisible.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=134600319943583&set=o.109241892488996&ref=nf

link to pic of idiot putting EDL as his religion.....


----------



## BlackArab (Mar 10, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Spot the made-up story
> 
> 
> _I'm a polite and helpful bloke, and went to help some muslim neighbours who I didn't know, but who needed to be warned about something.
> ...



The muslims in the park were probably trying to steal our swans for food.

Endland is lost. 

ps got any others?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

Kezza the reason they think EDL are footie hooligans is coz every time the press films EDL members are stood there with beers in there hand in my belief its constructed through police Media and goverment, where are all EDL members ushered on arrival to a Demo??? PUB why? in order to get them drunk so they commit offences and look bad then jo public wont take us seriously so we wont get there support!!!
THE ANSWER Dont drink b4 Demo save it to celebrate after Will Members do this? Doubt it!


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

Someone started a EDL sober division and got a telling off


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

That EDL as a religion thing is comedy genius.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

It's soooo funny...  how thick can they be?

also it would only skew the Christian numbers anyway.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

One of them has said that it's a good idea to put edl down as a religion because then it will seem like there are more Muslims in the country.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

do you mean Bob Smith?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

yeh, i didnt look at the names but possibly


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

bob is anti EDL, he's taking the piss  read his other commnets.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

What was more worrying is that two people liked his comment though!


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

I have filled mine in and have put "fuck off, mind ur own business" to every question i could. . SO SHOULD YOU' ! ITS AN INVASION OF PRIVACY! !


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> What was more worrying is that two people liked his comment though!


 
As i said, thick as fuck...


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

Haha I've just worked out who you are now!


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

well done....


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

There's one EDL member on there who's joined loads of groups saying the EDL aren't BNP and aren't racist, but then all of his friends are BNP members


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Lazy, tsk
> 
> http://www.fearandhope.org.uk/project-report/



cheers


----------



## mr steev (Mar 10, 2011)

> More info
> YOU MUST PUT EDL IN THE RELIGION PART ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE IN FULL DOESNT FIT!
> 
> Its time for the 2011 Census and basically what the plan is, is if everyone puts in the religion section EDL and if enough people do it then it has to be recognised as a religion. *You may remember this happening last time with people putting jedi and it now being a recognised religion*.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

If "everyone" puts it lol.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

just a note for the fools trying to put a downer on this, this is a bit of fun, im sure noone expects to move mountains, its a bit of fun designed to let people know our thoughts and where we stand. Bob your a fool and your foolishness will be realised one day *when you have no country left and your civil rights removed*


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

yeah how stupid will i look when 2.9% of the population take over the Uk.


----------



## BlackArab (Mar 10, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Kezza the reason they think EDL are footie hooligans is coz every time the press films EDL members are stood there with beers in there hand in my belief its constructed through police Media and goverment, where are all EDL members ushered on arrival to a Demo??? PUB why? in order to get them drunk so they commit offences and look bad then jo public wont take us seriously so we wont get there support!!!
> THE ANSWER Dont drink b4 Demo save it to celebrate after Will Members do this? Doubt it!



Good point, we all know footie lads abhor alcohol.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=115772995166565&set=o.109490015749172

Pure English.....


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/editphoto.p...150157928851285&set=o.109490015749172&theater (OK it's bnp not edl but it shows what they're really about...)


----------



## elbows (Mar 10, 2011)

EDL sympathiser at work yesterday thought that Germany and France didnt have immigrants


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...ice-protection-after-threats-100252-27346962/ I dunno if this was posted on the thread but there was a doctored picture suggesting that a trade union guy was wanting to "march against the troops": 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?g...109340049146365&set=o.109490015749172&theater 

scum, utter scum


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 10, 2011)

stephen yaxley lennon has had a baby and someones written a poem about it. 


Let’s all stand up, & raise a cheer
As baby poppy, is now here
A blessing sent, from up above
...Whose life is truly, blessed with love.

Her name was chosen, from her father’s pride
As his patriotic feelings, he will never hide
And as her name is called, each & every day
Thoughts of our fallen hero’s, can’t be wiped away.

A loyal British subject, into she will grow
And with her country’s passion, let people know
Her name means more, than just a pretty flower
It carries with it history, & it carries power.

So let’s all now bless, this baby new
And all our love, we send to you
And in all our hearts, you we will keep
Each day you wake, or when you sleep.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 11, 2011)

Awwww


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 11, 2011)

the one about the dragon is still my favourite though


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 11, 2011)

I fucking love Nazi poetry tho its awesome


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 11, 2011)

Here's to St George's name....it burns a flame,
To glorify old Englands name,and here's to the pride of those,
Who wear the English rose.
England my England.
My green and pleasant homeland,there is no other land,
...Can mean as much to me...none shall divide us,
And with St George to guide us,
Cry God Bless Elizabeth and ..... ENGLAND!


----------



## manny-p (Mar 11, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> stephen yaxley lennon has had a baby and someones written a poem about it.
> 
> 
> Let’s all stand up, & raise a cheer
> ...




 stephen yaxley lennon has a baby face.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 11, 2011)

On one of the expose threads they are asking an edl member to report some of these violent racists to the edl's leadership so that they can be disiplined / thrown out, i have to say that's very counterproductive in my opinion - they are desperate for respectability and being alerted to the presence of and throwing obvious, unreconstructed neo-Nazis out of the organisation allows yaxley-lennon et al to say "look we're not racist" and be more clever about hiding their racism.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 11, 2011)

Be british, proud and hail saint george
Who slain the dragon beast
Although not really a brit himself
But from the middle east


----------



## manny-p (Mar 11, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Be british, proud and hail saint george
> Who slain the dragon beast
> Although not really a brit himself
> But from the middle east


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 11, 2011)

Ahahahhaha i am having so much fun winding them up


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 11, 2011)

Some of the "anti-fascists" are twats tho as well tbf and i appear to have pissed off a few of them too


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## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=116304945113428&set=o.109490015749172

EDL member arrested for posting shit on facebook.


----------



## Fingers (Mar 11, 2011)

So he bragged about stealing a Koran on Facebook and is now whining about getting nicked????


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 11, 2011)




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## Ranbay (Mar 11, 2011)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250785912879

no paypal !!! even with 100% profit going to help the heroes.... hmmmm


----------



## Gingerman (Mar 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah how stupid will i look when 2.9% of the population take over the Uk.


That 2.9% better start going at it like rabbits if they want to take over the UK


----------



## Corax (Mar 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250785912879
> 
> no paypal !!! even with 100% profit going to help the heroes.... hmmmm


 
I'm sure we could rustle up a few of them for the server fund couldn't we?


----------



## rollinder (Mar 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250785912879
> 
> no paypal !!! even with 100% profit going to help the heroes.... hmmmm


 
wonder how Help For Heroes feels about the edl claiming to be fund-raising for them
eta: http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/articles/contact.php

ebay & missonfish could be very interested in this looking a lot like a fake charity auction

eta: wonder how much they'd take to have it also signed stephen yaxley lennon
(haven't got the nerve to ask that on the auction  but just reported it as pos fraudulent)


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## frogwoman (Mar 12, 2011)

I wonder if anyones contacted HfH?


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 12, 2011)

HfH are dodge anyway


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 12, 2011)

really?


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## frogwoman (Mar 12, 2011)

Ha ha one of them just threatened me


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## manny-p (Mar 12, 2011)

Just woke up. The morons are in Dagenham today.


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## Fingers (Mar 12, 2011)

Diddyman from the Blackburn Division got himself arrested yesterday after bragging on Facebook about stealing a Koran.


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## skitr (Mar 12, 2011)

I read that as mormons.


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## Ranbay (Mar 12, 2011)

http://www.demotix.com/news/620684/edl-demonstrate-site-proposed-islamic-centre-dagenham

edl-demonstrate-site-proposed-islamic-centre-dagenham


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## frogwoman (Mar 12, 2011)

they were in reading today


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## Corax (Mar 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> they were in reading today


 
Bullshit.  I bet they were just looking at the pictures.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 12, 2011)




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## barney_pig (Mar 13, 2011)

edl(berkshire division) were in reading  broadstreet yesterday leafletting for a march planned for next saturday. my daughter said that they were especialy concenttrating on groups of (white) teenagers.


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## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2011)

Wytheshaw Division were collecting  for HfH in the Civic Centre yesterday


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 13, 2011)

do you mean this?



Becuase i always film myslef putting a £1 in a box and stick it on youtube also.


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## Ranbay (Mar 13, 2011)

> from @HelpforHeroes on Twitter
> Help for Heroes is strictly non-political. We have no affiliation with any political party and we do not endorse the use of our name, our brand or our images for the promotion of any political viewpoint. The money that we raise at Help for Heroes is used to support wounded Servicemen and w...omen of every colour and creed and we strongly oppose any individual or political party who believes otherwise, and those who seek to use the charity’s name for their own political gain.



.


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## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> do you mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> Becuase i always film myslef putting a £1 in a box and stick it on youtube also.




Good google.


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## Ranbay (Mar 13, 2011)

Nope had it since yesterday.


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## frogwoman (Mar 13, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> edl(berkshire division) were in reading  broadstreet yesterday leafletting for a march planned for next saturday. my daughter said that they were especialy concenttrating on groups of (white) teenagers.



i saw them but they seemed to be getting short shrift from passers by.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 13, 2011)

The oratorical genius that is Mr Lennon/Robinson

(mild hilarity alert)


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 13, 2011)

How  many you got?


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## Corax (Mar 13, 2011)

Every time I see the thread title it makes me think this:


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## Ranbay (Mar 13, 2011)

I shit you not, this is on the Main EDL wall.....




> From Tommy Robinson
> Last night in Luton a priest was battered coming out of Saturday mass, the word is it was Muslim youth! We are still waiting for this to be confirmed but EDL be on standby for this sat as if it's true thousands of Luton lads will be on the streets! THIS WILL BE THE FINAL STRAW!



http://www.facebook.com/English.Defence.League.EDL/posts/211261855553822


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## Ranbay (Mar 14, 2011)

Well after about 200-300 replys of people getting worked up and ready to go beat up some Muslims they removed the post......


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## manny-p (Mar 14, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The oratorical genius that is Mr Lennon/Robinson
> 
> (mild hilarity alert)


 
He could give old Adolf a run for his money


----------



## souljacker (Mar 14, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> edl(berkshire division) were in reading  broadstreet yesterday leafletting for a march planned for next saturday. my daughter said that they were especialy concenttrating on groups of (white) teenagers.


 
Where is the march going to be? If its Cemetery Junction or Oxford Road, it could be a bit lively.


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2011)

I used to live round cemetry junction and i think an EDL march through there is a great idea  In fact I would pay to watch


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 14, 2011)

Don't agree with the 'ban' sentiment, but this is a good post. All the more interesting as the blogger is on The Daily Star site. They have done a serious U turn since their apologism and virtual endorsement was exposed and widely denounced.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/user_blogs/post/15345/2011/03/14/2467/Ban-the-EDL-or-educate-them-/


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## creak (Mar 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I shit you not, this is on the Main EDL wall.....
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/English.Defence.League.EDL/posts/211261855553822


 
At what point does this become incitement to violence?


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2011)

that's a star reader's blog, not the DS itself


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## Ranbay (Mar 14, 2011)

creak said:


> At what point does this become incitement to violence?


 
I have no idea, but since then they have posted saying it was a white guy who beat him up so it's ok?


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## creak (Mar 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I have no idea, but since then they have posted saying it was a white guy who beat him up so it's ok?


 
Just more evidence of their real agenda then. And it seems like they're not even bothered about hiding it any more..


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## Ranbay (Mar 14, 2011)

Will stick some screen shots up when i get home from work.


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm writing something now about the EDL. Might be wasted on facebook though


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## The39thStep (Mar 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I used to live round cemetry junction and i think an EDL march through there is a great idea  In fact I would pay to watch


 
The film Cemetry Junction was mild byt quite good imo


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## Ranbay (Mar 14, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/49a6w2

http://twitpic.com/49ezo3

http://twitpic.com/49es24

http://twitpic.com/49g395

you can follow most of the preist beating thing with these links ^


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## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2011)

tbf cannot think of anywhere in town that they wouldn't find a little too hot- apart from maybe calcot


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## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2011)

one of their supporters won a case here a few months back- he had hung a st.georges cross on the fence around the half built mosque on the oxford road and was then arrested by the OB for racial/religious hatred charges. the case was a farce, the Bill made a complete arse of themselves trying to prove that the english flag was a symbol of hatred (apparently the cross might have caused distress to muslims, one wonders what the coppers made of the numerous churches scattered along the road), the half dozen edl who
 turned out in 'solidarity' managed to lurch around the magistrates court for 20 minutes befoire hitting the pub for the rest of the day and the would be martyr was found not guilty to a avalanche of indifference in the town.
the demo planned for this weekend is a direct result of this previous event. the edl are objecting to a attempt to renew a unused, so far, planning permission for a mosque in east Reading. They want to capitalise on some misgivings in the town over the progress(?) of the new mosque being built(?) on the oxford road, where not a brick  has been laid since before christmas, and there are a number of questions about breaches of planning permission.
 disappointingly for the edl there is neither a active swp branch nor a history of Islamism in the town; so little chance of shrieking uaf lollipop politics nor poppy burning shenanigans to create a enviroment that the edl can feed in.


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## frogwoman (Mar 15, 2011)

yeah, what happened eventually? when i walked past there were about 6 or 7 of them - how long were they there for, do you know?


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## audiotech (Mar 15, 2011)

Have a trawl through the photos on this facebook group.


http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=109490015749172&v=wall


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## barney_pig (Mar 15, 2011)

by the time we got into town the only evidence of their presence was a single abandoned leaflet lying in Broad street; I think that if we had gone up to the three guineas then we might have found them, when they were in the town a group of christian women were apparently giving them a hard time


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## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

I think we have a winner  
_

I look out of my window it’s raining yet again

I grab my coat, I’m on my way

In a country that’s not the same

What happened to my homeland?

That my father gave to me

Just walk around the place you live

The reason is clear to see

Women wearing burka’s

And a mosque dominated skyline

Why can’t they live as we do in this England that is mine?

“Give me back my England” I shout but no one heard

“Help me now before we lose our English spoken word”

Before we lose our identity, our purpose and our law

So stand up here besides me and shout out “NO MORE”

People moaned and people groaned

But my words they sank like stone

I looked all around me I was standing on my own

I heard a noise, some sort of noise, from what I could not tell

But down the road before me came the mighty EDL

We’ll give you back your England, your rights and your laws

We’re taking back our country

We’ll take this shit no more

Now I stand with my brothers, my words can now be heard

My views and my opinions on facebook now are aired

But the hour glass keeps running, with every grain of sand

So don’t sit on your arse’s, come join us

Take a stand._


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

People moaned and people groaned. 

I'm sure they fucking did.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 17, 2011)

EDL laureate said:


> My views and my opinions on facebook now are aired


 
Change the world, make a page


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

5/5 for mentioning facebook in a poem tho


----------



## rollinder (Mar 17, 2011)

^ 
women in burkas made it rain did they?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

i don't know what's worse about that poem tbh ... the absymal attempts to make it rhyme or the actual content ...


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

Give me back my England


----------



## LiamO (Mar 17, 2011)

> “Give me back my England” I shout but no one heard
> 
> “Help me now *before we lose our English spoken word*”


 
Too late for that my son.

I often have difficulty when dealing with call centre staff in India. 

I have come to the realisation that the difficulty arises because the call centre bods only speak proper, BBC, 'Queens English' - whereas very few of their british callers can do the same.

So there you have it, dear 'poet'. Indian call centre workers... doing their bit to protect your 'English spoken word'... whilst semi-literate cunts like you strangle it to death... one monosyllable at a time


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## Corax (Mar 17, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Give me back my England


 
I can sympathise with that sentiment very well.

Us Beaker People have had enough; immigration is destroying our culture.  Bloody Jutes, Angles and Saxon everywhere, and they don't even bury their dead with a pottery beaker beside them, fucking savages.


----------



## albionism (Mar 17, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I think we have a winner
> _
> 
> I look out of my window it’s raining yet again
> ...


 
ffs! +


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> And a mosque dominated skyline


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

lol, i think it was because the poet was trying to get something to rhyme with "why can't they live as we do in this england that is mine" 


anyway 1 mosque to them = a "mosque dominated skyline"


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2011)

> Take a stand.



Surely the correct idiom is _Make_ a stand?

Although it wouldn't surprise me if the poem was just a smokescreen to encourage theft.


----------



## Corax (Mar 17, 2011)

> Women wearing burka’s


Women wearing burka’s what?


----------



## mancboy (Mar 17, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/49a6w2


 


> for every priest thats targeted, ten IMANS shud be targeted



Fuck have they got against Bowie's wife?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

I'm more worried about how "people moaned and people groaned" to be honest


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2011)

Corax said:


> Women wearing burka’s what?







> So don’t sit on your arse’s



And sit on what belonging to your arse?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

she's one of THEM


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2011)

> I looked all around me I was standing on my own



And yet you failed to take the hint.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

im also interested to hear wtf an hourglass has to do with anything


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> im also interested to hear wtf an hourglass has to do with anything



And how it manages to keep running. Rather than running out once the hour is up.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2011)

I think it might be broken.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 17, 2011)

oh well, we'll be sorry when we're living under a mosque dominated skyline.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> oh well, we'll be sorry when we're living under a mosque dominated skyline.



Oh I dunno.







vs






No brainer.


----------



## mancboy (Mar 17, 2011)

> I heard a noise, some sort of noise, from what I could not tell



This is pure William McGonagall. I want to hear the rest of the poem that's the first line for.

_I heard a noise, some sort of noise, from what I could not tell
Mayhap it was a crowing cock or the church bell that did knell
Or some be-turbanned Johnnie who would drag us all to hell
With his prayer call a-wailing and his strange Mohammed-smell_


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2011)

Oooh, well done.


----------



## mancboy (Mar 17, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Oooh, well done.


 
Just channeling my inner nationalist idiot


----------



## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Oh I dunno.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Prefer the Shopping centre- Bowling, food etc. Mosque- praying.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2011)

I was obviously referring to the aesthetics rather than activities within. Perhaps sky scrapers would have been a better example. Although equally pleasing to the eye in their own way (or perhaps not according to your taste), at least mosques serve a function for the local community unlike canary wharf where a large proportion of the workforce commute to from elsewhere.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I was obviously referring to the aesthetics rather than activities within. Perhaps sky scrapers would have been a better example. Although equally pleasing to the eye in their own way (or perhaps not according to your taste), at least mosques serve a function for the local community unlike canary wharf where a large proportion of the workforce commute to from elsewhere.


 
To be fair even aesthetically, I just think to myself what a waste of fecking money and time.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

EDL SCUM IN READING TOMORROW (19/03/11)-

We will be meeting at the 3 guineas pub next to Reading train station at around 10am. 12am will be heading to the town hall (escorted by the police and the EDL stewards) which is about a 10min walk where we will be having speeches from a co......uple of the berkshire admin and english defence leagues leadership Tommy robinson.
Oviously theres going to a police present but lets show them respect because they have been great towards the berkshire division helping sort things out how we like it to be so fair play to them.
There will be no barriers up to pen us in or dogs barking at us lol. This will be a peaceful protest simple as that so lets do berkshire proud beacuse next time we are in Reading it will be a national demo!!! ;-)
After the demo is finished we will be heading back to the 3 Guiness pub at 1pm where there will be food laid on all the landlord asks is for us to show the staff and people there the respect and hes happy for us to be there and enjoy ourselves!!!  see you all there. ns

PARKING: For coaches and mini buses there is a bus station just outside the pub everyone can get dropped off there. There is multi storey car parking facilities available these are as followed:

Garrard street car pak

Orcale car park

Reading station car park

All these car parks are within a 5-10 mins walk to The 3 guineas pub look for sign posts to Reading station where the pub is located. If anyone has any questions or needs directions please dont hesitate to contact Berkshire Admin


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2011)

allybaba said:


> To be fair even aesthetically, I just think to myself what a waste of fecking money and time.



I think the same about football stadiums but, alas, it serves the needs of a section of society. *shrug*


----------



## souljacker (Mar 18, 2011)

allybaba said:


> EDL SCUM IN READING TOMORROW (19/03/11)-
> 
> We will be meeting at the 3 guineas pub next to Reading train station at around 10am. 12am will be heading to the town hall (escorted by the police and the EDL stewards) which is about a 10min walk where we will be having speeches from a co......uple of the berkshire admin and english defence leagues leadership Tommy robinson.
> Oviously theres going to a police present but lets show them respect because they have been great towards the berkshire division helping sort things out how we like it to be so fair play to them.
> ...


 
Fucking pussies haven't got the bottle to march down Oxford Road or Cemetery Junction. What this about the next one be a national demo?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 18, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=57436263660&ref=ts#!/group.php?gid=57436263660

New Exposing Racism page, after the EDL killed the other 21 of them.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

souljacker said:


> Fucking pussies haven't got the bottle to march down Oxford Road or Cemetery Junction. What this about the next one be a national demo?


 
Probably more to do with the polis not letting them tbf to the dickheads.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

> This board is temporarily closed.
> 
> Please sign up to our new board by using the link at www.englishdefenceleague.org
> 
> ...



Some thing odd has happened to EDL the forum. I heard that they were thinking about changing their forums to a pay to join a new edl forum(lennon and his cronies  would make a few bob out of that). Didn't seem popular at the time. Anyone else know much about this?


----------



## Corax (Mar 18, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Some thing odd has happened to EDL the forum. I heard that they were thinking about changing their forums to a pay to join a new edl forum(lennon and his cronies  would make a few bob out of that). Didn't seem popular at the time. Anyone else know much about this?


 
Have they trademarked the name etc?

If not, can we get there ahead of them, set up a page, and divert the cash to the server fund?


----------



## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

Corax said:


> Have they trademarked the name etc?
> 
> If not, can we get there ahead of them, set up a page, and divert the cash to the server fund?


 
I ain't a techy  better idea donate it to my bank account.


----------



## Corax (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm sure Lazy Llama could whip something up, and certain there'd be plenty of techy urbanz that would assist.

A bit of careful wording would avoid any potential for fraud charges.  We must have a lawyer or two on here somewhere.

If not for the money, f'the lulz.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

Corax said:


> I'm sure Lazy Llama could whip something up, and certain there'd be plenty of techy urbanz that would assist.
> 
> A bit of careful wording would avoid any potential for fraud charges.  We must have a lawyer or two on here somewhere.
> 
> If not for the money, f'the lulz.



Lets DO IT a number on the EDL then. WOOHOO


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 18, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/4asbce

 LOL


----------



## manny-p (Mar 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/4asbce
> 
> LOL


 
Job centre rules have made me pull  my hair out before so I have sympathy for this div.


----------



## grogwilton (Mar 19, 2011)

allybaba said:


> EDL SCUM IN READING TOMORROW (19/03/11)-
> 
> We will be meeting at the 3 guineas pub next to Reading train station at around 10am. 12am will be heading to the town hall (escorted by the police and the EDL stewards) which is about a 10min walk where we will be having speeches from a co......uple of the berkshire admin and english defence leagues leadership Tommy robinson.
> Oviously theres going to a police present but lets show them respect because they have been great towards the berkshire division helping sort things out how we like it to be so fair play to them.
> ...


 
Here is the number of the 3 guineas pub if you want to let them know what you think about them hosting the EDL: 01189 572743


----------



## manny-p (Mar 19, 2011)

grogwilton said:


> Here is the number of the 3 guineas pub if you want to let them know what you think about them hosting the EDL: 01189 572743


 
It should be full of EDL right now.


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## BlackArab (Mar 19, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/4asbce
> 
> LOL



'basterding fish liking'


----------



## souljacker (Mar 19, 2011)

grogwilton said:


> Here is the number of the 3 guineas pub if you want to let them know what you think about them hosting the EDL: 01189 572743


 
I don't think he'll give a shit. It's been a hooligan friendly pub for years.


----------



## BlackArab (Mar 19, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I think we have a winner
> _
> 
> I look out of my window it’s raining yet again
> ...



Oh Froggy you keep making my day

Stuck at work for modest pay

Keep finding gems from the EDL

and make our great nation LOL


BA - the Bard of Brizzle


----------



## ovaltina (Mar 19, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Dodgy goings on in Whitechapel...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Lo and behold! Standard: 


> A gay pride march through the East End has been called off after one of the organisers was alleged to have been an infiltrator from the English Defence League




It looks to me like the EDL was trying to use the gays as cannon fodder against muslims.

More here: http://leninology.blogspot.com/2011/03/edl-founder-member-among-east-end-gay.html



> The LGBT Muslim group Imaan has done some background checks on the East End Gay Pride organisers. Turns out one of the organisers, Raymond Berry, is EDL:
> 
> We have now acquired evidence that Raymond Berry, the principal organiser of the event, faced a call for disciplinary measures (revocation of his membership) by officials of the RMT (Rail and Maritime Trades Union) because he was a public and vocal, leading member of the EDL (English Defence League) and promoted the EDL objectives and extremist politics.


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## butchersapron (Mar 19, 2011)

He wasn't an infiltrator, he's a gay bloke in the edl.


----------



## ovaltina (Mar 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He wasn't an infiltrator, he's a gay bloke in the edl.


 
Maybe he's gay, maybe not... doesn't really matter. He's stirring up shit in a part of town where violence is already commonplace.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 19, 2011)

Maybe not, but the idea that gay blokes can't be far right or dodgy does matter though. It allows people to miss the ideological reconfigurations currently taking place that the edl are a public expression of.


----------



## ovaltina (Mar 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> the idea that gay blokes can't be far right or dodgy does matter though


 
True, the Standard's headline jumps to the conclusion he's an 'infiltrator' rather than just a shitbag.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It allows people to miss the ideological reconfigurations currently taking place that the edl are a public expression of.


 
This is a process that is clearly well underway but I'm a bit fuzzy on it. Any chance you could expand this or point me in the direction of some articles or anything BA?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Maybe not, but the idea that gay blokes can't be far right or dodgy does matter though. It allows people to miss the ideological reconfigurations currently taking place that the edl are a public expression of.


 
yep, although i'd be interested to read more about this.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2011)

From FB:



> I am hearing whispers that the EDL have surrended in Reading today. More news as we get it...



You know what's happened froggy?


----------



## Corax (Mar 19, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> From FB:
> 
> 
> 
> You know what's happened froggy?


 
"surrendered"?

Do we get to put them in PoW camps now?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> From FB:
> 
> 
> 
> You know what's happened froggy?


 
No, unfortunately. I was off to a SP stall somewhere else but ended up being fucked by public transprort so couldn't go  I would have liked to have gone to the EDL demo but I'm too much of a wimp


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2011)

What happened to "no surrrender" anyway?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2011)

OK this isn't by the EDL, it's by a NF member, but it's still a work of artistic and stylistic genius as i am sure you will agree. It's also not at all obvious what the "eternal serpent" is meant to be, adding to the subtlety of the piece

*
The Eternal Serpent*_

Long, oh so long has It waited
Cunning, as only a serpent can be
crushing along like a glacier
time forever from mountain to sea

It came with the World's formation
an Evil as old as the sea
watching and waiting and planning
Its watching both you and me

Throughout time and in time
we have glimpsed It's foul coils
as they snake round our World
and then poison our Souls and our Soils

And now Its awake and its free
and its coming for you and for me
to rob us forever of freedom and air
and to poison our Mountains and Seas_


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2011)

Corax said:


> "surrendered"?
> 
> Do we get to put them in PoW camps now?


 
I wondered the same. Think the page is UAF, they do like to say things like that.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2011)

from scumfront - first prize to anyone who can tell me what this is about   

_How do you tell,when you lost the war
Will someone tell you at the local bar

Who's to say when it's all undone
When you run out of bullets for your gun

When the enemy is living next door to you,
and their numbers now,are more than a few

When they beat your children and take your jobs,
and the government looks away when they march in mobs


Did we still have a chance back in 64,
even though it all started way before

What even happen to the real fighting men,
oh ya,their all dead now-or in the pen

Who's objecting about a dyeing race,
soon there will be fewer in this place

How much time before we know it's over
How many leaves on a four leaf clover_

It's a pity there are fewer dyeing races around though, they sound as though they might be quite fun (if a bit messy)


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 19, 2011)

It's doggerel. "We still had a chance back in 64", seems to refer to the Tory's defeat at the hands of Labou in 1964. No mention of Profumo. Fucking dimwits.


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 19, 2011)

i wasn't there for long, i had just come off a night shift and my family were in town.
 there were only about 25 or so of us, the intelligence had led us to infer that the turnout from the edl would be localised, but the cancellation of birmingham brought most of their southern divisions to reading.
  when the group collectively voted to take the polices offer of collaboration to 'facilliate their right to protest' I absented myself, I am too old and too tired to spend an afternoon in a self imposed kettle.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> i wasn't there for long, i had just come off a night shift and my family were in town.
> there were only about 25 or so of us, the intelligence had led us to infer that the turnout from the edl would be localised, but the cancellation of birmingham brought most of their southern divisions to reading.
> when the group collectively voted to take the polices offer of collaboration to 'facilliate their right to protest' I absented myself, I am too old and too tired to spend an afternoon in a self imposed kettle.


 
So no surrendering then?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 19, 2011)

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2011/03/19/51206-edl-protest-in-reading/

AROUND 200 members of the English Defence League came from across the country to demonstrate in Reading today (Saturday).


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 19, 2011)

as we gathered in Forbury Gardens I heard someone asking whether there was a footbal game today; I replied that _*we* _ were away to Barnsley, this older feller turns round and says, with a great deal of distain "_*we*_?" Thinking he must be a supporter of another side I said "Reading are away"  the older guy could not have looked more affronted "football is always _*they*_ to me, everyone who supports football is _*they*_ to me"
  wonder why we were in the minority?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2011)

that's fucking ridiculous.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 19, 2011)

Sadly not surprising though innit? you always get that type of shit with "anti-fascist" stuff unfortunately.


----------



## Corax (Mar 19, 2011)

Snobbery of a sort.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> as we gathered in Forbury Gardens I heard someone asking whether there was a footbal game today; I replied that _*we* _ were away to Barnsley, this older feller turns round and says, with a great deal of distain "_*we*_?" Thinking he must be a supporter of another side I said "Reading are away"  the older guy could not have looked more affronted "football is always _*they*_ to me, everyone who supports football is _*they*_ to me"
> wonder why we were in the minority?


 
Knobs.

In my home town, it was the football fans who led the oppo to the EDL. Except some 'anti-fascists' couldn't tell which side was which, meaning it initially got reported in some quarters (mainly twitter) as a scrap between two factions of the EDL. Cos, you know, working class lads dressed like working class lads must be fash. Blates.

You'd have thought the Palestinian flag might have given it away...



At the risk of sounding like a broken record, these liberal sneery anti-working class fucks masquerading as anti-fascists are a hindrance.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 19, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> as we gathered in Forbury Gardens I heard someone asking whether there was a footbal game today; I replied that _*we* _ were away to Barnsley, this older feller turns round and says, with a great deal of distain "_*we*_?" Thinking he must be a supporter of another side I said "Reading are away"  the older guy could not have looked more affronted "football is always _*they*_ to me, everyone who supports football is _*they*_ to me"
> wonder why we were in the minority?


 
You should have gave him a slap.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 19, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Knobs.
> 
> In my home town, it was the football fans who led the oppo to the EDL. Except some 'anti-fascists' couldn't tell which side was which, meaning it initially got reported in some quarters (mainly twitter) as a scrap between two factions of the EDL. Cos, you know, working class lads dressed like working class lads must be fash. Blates.
> 
> ...




Not surprised about this. I remember awhile back some people in antifa got mistaken for fash by some uaf folk when nick griffin was giving a speech at Oxford or was it Cambridge? Good on the football lads in Wrexham.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 19, 2011)

Cardiff Soul crew lads came out to tell the EDL to fuck off when they thought i would be a good idea for a Cardiff demo?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2011)

Helps in Wales that the far right hasn't learnt not to wave union jacks or english flags about, of course.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 19, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Helps in Wales that the far right hasn't learnt not to wave union jacks or english flags about, of course.


 
Haha. Do the SDL do that aswell? Bunch of morons.


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## grogwilton (Mar 19, 2011)

You should have stayed BP, we gave the EDL some football chants ourselves, in reply to their 'you're not English anymore' we sang 'you're not reading anyway' (because they were blantantly mostly bussed in as their banners showed) and we followed this with 'get back on your buses, get back on your buses, la la la la', etc


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)




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## Ld222 (Mar 20, 2011)

Pride of the EDL!! lol


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## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

To be fair there are probably equally incoherent people on left wing demos ... I'd probably one of them. I know I've struggled in the past to explain anything


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## Corax (Mar 20, 2011)

Bloody muslamic infidels.


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## Ld222 (Mar 20, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> To be fair there are probably equally incoherent people on left wing demos ... I'd probably one of them. I know I've struggled in the past to explain anything


 
I want a tenners worth of watever he's had! lol


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## Corax (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm not sure how much inbreeding you can get for a tenner these days.


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## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

Wouldn't you want this cake for your birthday?


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 20, 2011)

It's Nazi Cake weekend!


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## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

Im sure a lot of effort went into making those cakes.


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## Corax (Mar 20, 2011)

Sod the cake, that post is fucking disturbing


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## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

no shit, although i think it's a "joke"


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## grogwilton (Mar 20, 2011)

Worst of all he follows QPR!  Bloody sellotape hoops!


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## Ranbay (Mar 20, 2011)

more press TV LOL's here... this idiot want's to build a Mosque in Mecca....


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## manny-p (Mar 20, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> more press TV LOL's here... this idiot want's to build a Mosque in Mecca....




I think the guy with the cap, thinks the symbol on the microphone is masonic


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## Ranbay (Mar 20, 2011)

There is a reason he see's the logo about town a lot....


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## Fingers (Mar 20, 2011)

I met a real life EDL 'Angle' last night at PROD of all places. She was perfectly nice to talk to for ages then she stated that people were not  allowed to talk about multiculturalism these days.  I informed everybody was talking about it on the run up to the last election and she was indeed allowed to talk about it.  With that argument shot down she told me to fuck off which reaffirmed my opinion that these people have no argument whatsoever. Ho hum.


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## Ranbay (Mar 20, 2011)

Was she singing, " Burn our poppy and well burn you mosque" ?


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 20, 2011)

Bloody angles


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## manny-p (Mar 20, 2011)

Fingers said:


> I met a real life EDL 'Angle' last night at PROD of all places. She was perfectly nice to talk to for ages then she stated that people were not  allowed to talk about multiculturalism these days.  I informed everybody was talking about it on the run up to the last election and she was indeed allowed to talk about it.  With that argument shot down she told me to fuck off which reaffirmed my opinion that these people have no argument whatsoever. Ho hum.


 
They have a point about Islam being a fucked up religion. But yet they seem to stay silent on how fucked up chrisitanity, judaism and all the other religions are. Oh and the majority of them are racist cunts from what I have seen.


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## Ranbay (Mar 20, 2011)

It gets worse... we are now at risk that 5% of our bacon is Halal


----------



## Fingers (Mar 20, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Was she singing, " Burn our poppy and well burn you mosque" ?



She probably went and burnt a couple after I told her she was a complete dick.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 20, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> There is a reason he see's the logo about town a lot....


 
LOL


----------



## grogwilton (Mar 20, 2011)

LOL Indeed! The guy with the flag around his face seems to realise he's talking bullshit as he says it, it must be hard to put together an argument when all you really want to say is 'I don't like muslims' but can't because of your organisations 'anti racism'.


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## Ranbay (Mar 20, 2011)

60 Minutes EDL and Oz


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## treelover (Mar 20, 2011)

'It looks to me like the EDL was trying to use the gays as cannon fodder against muslims.


That was from a Trot blog yes, so the moral and political contortions continue: they and others seem determined to the point of delusion that the anti-gay stickers, 'Gay Free Zone' etc are being posted by agent provocateurs trying to stir up trouble, they would never never give that sort of leeway, if they, say, spot far right stickers on a council estate. Why can't they accept that far right Islamists are active in TH, etc may be posting up such crap/ It is very possible/likely they are, but these elements of the left seem to believe Muslims aren't capable of such behaviour, a very racist assumption, in many ways.

Interesting how now the street oppostion to the EDl is flagging, sneers seem to be utilised as a weapon, no fan of them but hundreds of thousands of people share their views, best to engage them politically...


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

Who is saying muslims arent capable of it? And I agree there's a dodgy assumption made by some "trots" (but almost certainly others) that gay people can't be dodgy and far right, but apart from those silly comments about "infiltrators" it's reasonable to be suspicious surely? 

And I'm sure fundamentalist Islamists have done similar sort of "false-flag" stuff, and Larry O'Hara etc have uncovered loads of evidence that some of the far-right groups are heavily infiltrated and in some cases set up by the state, this is well known, it's not controversial or forbidden to talk about, is it?


----------



## manny-p (Mar 20, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Who is saying muslims arent capable of it? And I agree there's a dodgy assumption made by some "trots" (but almost certainly others) that gay people can't be dodgy and far right, but apart from those silly comments about "infiltrators" it's reasonable to be suspicious surely?
> 
> And I'm sure fundamentalist Islamists have done similar sort of "false-flag" stuff, and Larry O'Hara etc have uncovered loads of evidence that some of the far-right groups are heavily infiltrated and in some cases set up by the state, this is well known, it's not controversial or forbidden to talk about, is it?


 
I think the attacks on gays in that area are evidence enough of the problem. Unless you are suggesting that they were far right who 'blacked/browned themselves up' etc. p.s- I do believe the Larry O'Hara stuff.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

I'm not saying I believe anything about those stickers, just that it's reasonable to be suspicious surely?


----------



## treelover (Mar 20, 2011)

'Wow, the bigots are out in force today. Bit drunk on your benefit cheques. are you?'


from the comments of the ES article, extra comment not needed


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

treelover said:


> Interesting how now the street oppostion to the EDl is flagging, sneers seem to be utilised as a weapon, no fan of them but hundreds of thousands of people share their views, best to engage them politically...


 
One reason that street opposition is flagging is probably because the demo numbers themselves are flagging. EDL rallies are only getting a few hundred now, even in the heartlands. Too many obvious nazis and drunken twats have alienated people. Hundreds of thousands may share their views and always probably were bigots to some degree. Engaging them politically is another matter, because facts don't seem to bother them very much if EDL FB pages are anything to go by. They make shit up, they are often blatantly racist and incredibly stupid. I'm not saying it's impossible to engage them entirely, but it's very much an uphill task. Lots of them have their minds made up already with an array of hand-me-down fuckwit cliches about 'the left' to fob you off with. Their understanding of Islam comes from some guy in the pub. They actually think Tommy is some kind of astute political genius and inspiration. You aint going to get very far with that type of person. Many many EDL attendees are now bona fide nazis. You want to try and engage with them? bon chance.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

I dont' think that aynone is laughing about the EDLer's fixation with the PressTV logo as a substittue for political debate about the EDL ...


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'Wow, the bigots are out in force today. Bit drunk on your benefit cheques. are you?'
> 
> 
> from the comments of the ES article, extra comment not needed


 
You always get that though. Knobs.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

Besides shouldn't people laugh at the stupid stuff they say - like a bunch of people with Nazi and C18 tattoos and t-shirts describing how they are not racist and hate nazis - and how is that the same as going on about people on benefits etc? We're allowed to ffs. You wouldn't complain if there were threads taking the piss out of the SWP etc?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

No frogwoman, apparently we need to get all liberal and understand why they are stupid racists without using the word 'stupid' or 'racist'. Then they will be exposed and relent. or something.

disparaging remark about benefit claimants are out of order wherever they come from. And plenty more come from the EDL as it happens. Not all people who hate the EDL have been on a U75 accredited course on the correct ways to engage with racism and bigotry. If the antis attract the usual suspects it's 'oh, thats just the usual suspects'. If it's broader it's 'oh, they aint going about it the correct way' as specified in the mind of a self appointed expert.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

'Never give in. Never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.
that was said by the 2nd greatest english man ever after our tommy! winston churchill is gone down in history and so will tommy as the greatest english man ever!'

So says some dupe on an EDL page. But I'm sure she'll change her mind as soon as it is pointed out to her that housing and employment problems are far more a consequence of capitalism than the 2.5 percent of this country that is Islamic.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

I've had a whizz idea though - how about stopping all these campaigns and protests against the cuts? Instead we should roundly denounce anyone who criticises tories and try to understand why so many people think slashing public services is neccessary.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 20, 2011)

Oh dear.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

So we shouldn't challenge prejudice on the part of "anti-fascists" at all then? I agree about not shunning people for not being perfect, but there's a difference between challenging that sort of shite and never having a single joke about the EDLs expense?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 20, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> there's a difference between challenging that sort of shite and never having a single joke about the EDLs expense


 
Precisely. Just as there is a difference between taking the piss out of some far right dolts for being dicks, and dismissing the concerns of a large swathe of people without engaging with these concerns whilst labeling them all 'thick chavs' etc.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> ..try to understand why so many people think slashing public services is neccessary.


 
We should do that though. If we're to have any hope of progressing further.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Precisely. Just as there is a difference between taking the piss out of some far right dolts for being dicks, and dismissing the concerns of a large swathe of people without engaging with these concerns whilst labeling them all 'thick chavs' etc.


 
We have all been round the block on this so many times on so many threads PT.

Lots of that 'large swathe' don't like migration and have a negative fixed image of islam that you or I are unlikely to change. In our communties and work places, we might, with luck, shift a couple of them an iota. Rather like the cuts issue, the background is complex and opaque. Complex and opaque just doesnt work for some people, regardless of their intelligence or class. I would never call someone a 'thick chav' or use a term of offence related to class. But if someone is a thick racist I don't see the point of going all wooly liberal and self censorious about saying so. What amuses me is that so many of the 'English Defence League' have utterly dire use of the language. They wibble about 'our culture' - one of the best things about England is the language, and they butcher it hourly with shit spelling, syntax, grammar and general incoherence. They are a rabble and a disgrace. Period.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> We should do that though. If we're to have any hope of progressing further.


 
one bit of research I saw tracked how opinions changed markedly in a 2 month period a bit under a year ago, due to shifts in emphasis in the line of debate and a lot of media propaganda. But facts like that wont wash. If you suggest that media has an effect, it implies people believe what they read and hear from the establishment. And that is an insulting and arrogant. Or something.

Same with the systematic hate campaigns against islam and the swathes who parrot the lies of the Daily Star et al. Self appointed U75 experts have again deemed that age old Divide and Conquer tactics cant actually work or be meaningfully referred to. Again it's just  too insulting to think that people believe what they are told, and evidence be damned.

In these circs I have no idea why anyone hires PR firms.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> We have all been round the block on this so many times on so many threads PT.
> 
> Lots of that 'large swathe' don't like migration and have a negative fixed image of islam that you or I are unlikely to change. In our communties and work places, we might, with luck, shift a couple of them an iota. Rather like the cuts issue, the background is complex and opaque. Complex and opaque just doesnt work for some people, regardless of their intelligence or class.



Growth of the far right is down to the crisis in working class political representation. And yeah we have done this again and again. People's fears over immigration are largely born of the pressure on jobs, homes and services, and the reality that their own economic positions are being forced down, with some drawing the conclusion this is because of immigration, rather than both being symptoms of the race to the bottom. A conclusion arrived a partly because much of the left and the af's fail to place growing racism within the context of the race to the bottom, and present immigration as a wholly good thing without reference to, for example, the role the bosses have played in using migrant labour (and contract labour, temp labour, outsourcing, etc) to attack pay and conditions.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I would never call someone a 'thick chav' or use a term of offence related to class. But if someone is a thick racist I don't see the point of going all wooly liberal and self censorious about saying so. What amuses me is that so many of the 'English Defence League' have utterly dire use of the language. They wibble about 'our culture' - one of the best things about England is the language, and they butcher it hourly with shit spelling, syntax, grammar and general incoherence. They are a rabble and a disgrace. Period.


 
Nobody is saying that. If someone says 'pakis should die' then they are a cunt and should be called a cunt. But what we see instead is a whole swathe of people being lumped in together and with their concerns dismissed instead of engaged with, and this polarises the situation further, leading people who have arrived at the conclusion that the lack of jobs or the long waiting list at the NHS dentist is down to too much immigration to the hard or far right as 'the only people who are listening to us'.

Look at how shit far right results have been in the handful of wards and areas in the UK where the pro-working class far left is strong - it isn't because the far left is taking on the attitudes or policies of the far right; it is because there is a political force in these communities engaging with those that establishment politics have left behind. And this is on a local level, with an inevitably rapidly changing population, with people moving in and out, meaning it is difficult for smaller parties to maintain a strong local profile - at a national level, the presence of a mass pro-working class alternative would strangle the electoral and social weight of the far right and force a shift in the mainstream political consensus, putting working class issues back on the agenda. We have seen this to a degree with the anti-cuts debate - and the strength of opposition to the cuts, with signs of a developing mass movement - but without an organised political body its impact is limited.

It's not about treating bigotry with kid gloves and it certainly isn't a or the liberal position - the liberal position is precisely the sneering anti-working class establishment anti-fascism position. What it is about is taking a pro-working class and, at the risk of sounding like a twat, dialectical approach, and recognising that there are social causes for the growth of the far right, that it doesn't take place in the abstract.

On a practical and personal level, this means a different approach for different people. Some outright neo-nazi knob or diehard racist, fuck them, mock away, but a middle-aged woman who tells you she voted BNP because 'there was nobody else' or some young lad who expresses some degree of support for the EDL because 'at least they are doing something' are the direct product of the lack of a working class political voice. And lumping them all in together as one thick stupid underclass hateful mob isn't going to do much to engage with them - it is going to isolate them further and, as the crisis in representation continues, further entrench views and push them towards the far right.

Morality is a bourgeois concept and all that. It's about what will and will not achieve the desired result.

And you are right, this has been done to death.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> We have all been round the block on this so many times on so many threads PT.
> 
> Lots of that 'large swathe' don't like migration and have a negative fixed image of islam that you or I are unlikely to change. In our communties and work places, we might, with luck, shift a couple of them an iota. .



Out of interest what is your positive, flexible image of Islam ? 

You see the reason I ask is that Islam is, in many ways, a very rigid belief system. Its not some cuddly, all encompassing fussy spiritual belief that welcomes everybody and embraces others of all faiths and beliefs.

Its rules on aposty for example are very very clear. Ditto with its attitude towards homsosexuality and all sorts of other bits and pieces.

Now I personally can seem some positive aspects to it as a religion and have friends who are both observant Muslims and perfectly at home within UK culture but the reality is that they share far more common ground on all sorts of issues with a Conservative Catholic such as myself than they ever would with somebody who would define themselves as being of the left.

For certain parts of the British left to 'champion' the Islamic cause makes no sense beyond, and I accept that its a view shaped by my own political beliefs, a case of blatent short termism on the case of both sides.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

Good post PT. it's also worth saying - not sure if a similar point's been made on here before - that a similar process has applied in some places re: people on benefits and a perception that because wages are so low that people on benefits are getting "more" than people who are actually working, something that's helped both mainstream parties *and* the far right. Currently my dad is in wales and sharing a house with a woman who's become a stalwart tory voter because of these reasons.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Out of interest what is your positive, flexible image of Islam ?
> 
> You see the reason I ask is that Islam is, in many ways, a very rigid belief system. Its not some cuddly, all encompassing fussy spiritual belief that welcomes everybody and embraces others of all faiths and beliefs.
> 
> ...


 
I don't know how rigid it is to say 'there is no compulsion in relgion', but I happen to agree with The Prophet on that one.

My problems with 'orthodox' Islam parallel my problems with other orthodox presentations of religion. They are generally human conceptualisations borne of ego. I can only speak of the many muslims I have had theological conversations with, although we have often disagreed I have not found them to be rude, fundementalist or inflexible.

I heard a great talk the other night by a bloke who pupports that much of the stasis in Islam goes back to the behaviour of the Uk early on last century across the ME and NA. The recent revolutionary movements speak to a large amount of such populations who reject autocracy, but for whom fundementalism also appears to play little part in their lives. They are, shock horror, normal people. 

As for anyone who would kill in the name of one of the monotheist relgions: They are blasphemers. The law of Moses says 'thou shalt not kill', which about covers it. Allah is the all merciful. Anyone who aspires to be like him or his prohpet won't be killing any time soon. That also happens to be why there is a clear instruction for 'food without blood' in Islam - i.e vegetarianism for which halal killing is a blasphemous blag. The Prophet says, in the Haadith, that one should not make ones stomach a graveyard of animals.

Islam is indeed a religion of peace. An MI5 report out this week said that 'extremists' tended not to have much schooling in Islam. There will always be hate filled loons of all faiths and none.

I do not hold with theocracy, that is a sticking point because Islam seems to be theocracy inclined. But the idea of muslims wanting to force us all into Sharia is just not borne out by my experience of living in an area which aint short of muslims.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Islam is indeed a religion of peace.


 

Its a religon of submission. There is a massive difference.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 20, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Its a religon of submission. There is a massive difference.


 
oh purlease...you cant seriously think anyone on here/anywhere is going to take your views/ interpretation of Islam as carriying a single iota of weight/ authority ? It's apparent that you're a bitter,  reactionary, ignorant piece of work, but you can't be  that deluded  surely ?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> As for anyone who would kill in the name of one of the monotheist relgions: They are blasphemers. The law of Moses says 'thou shalt not kill', which about covers it. Allah is the all merciful. Anyone who aspires to be like him or his prohpet won't be killing any time soon. That also happens to be why there is a clear instruction for 'food without blood' in Islam - i.e vegetarianism for which halal killing is a blasphemous blag. The Prophet says, in the Haadith, that one should not make ones stomach a graveyard of animals.



It's clear that you _find yourself increasingly drawn to Mecca_ but i think you need to brush up as to where and when classical Islamic doctrine legitimises all sort of killing before you go much further.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Mar 20, 2011)

cantsin said:


> oh purlease...you cant seriously think anyone on here/anywhere is going to take your views/ interpretation of Islam as carriying a single iota of weight/ authority ? It's apparent that you're a bitter,  reactionary, ignorant piece of work, but you can't be  that deluded  surely ?


 
To be fair, I doubt very many people do take me seriously. 

But that still dont alter the very simple fact that Islam might be very many things but its not a religion of 'peace'.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Its a religon of submission. There is a massive difference.


 
'submission' like so many totemic words in religion, can be taken in a number of ways. In fact all Masters could be argued to require a degree of submission to their ways of doing things. When Jesus said 'sell all you have and give to the poor, come and follow me' he was basically requiring a form of submission. When Buddhists 'go for refuge' they are basically submitting to what their Master requires.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It's clear that you _find yourself increasingly drawn to Mecca_ but i think you need to brush up as to where and when classical Islamic doctrine legitimises all sort of killing before you go much further.


 
I am indeed drawn to higher things Butchers, though I reject organised human made religion (ie 'classical')  in favour of trying to sift out wheat from chaff in the huge amount of spiritual writings of previous millenia. Anyone who would kill in the name of a supposedly merciful loving god who instructs 'thou shalt not kill' is clearly not going to get far in a logic competition.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2011)

Excellent, at one fell swoop you cast out not only all meat eaters, but also any Muslims who take the historic traditions of their faith seriously. Truly you are etc. Where did old Allah say thou shalt not kill btw?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Excellent, at one fell swoop you cast out not only all meat eaters, but also any Muslims who take the historic traditions of their faith seriously. Truly you are etc. Where did old Allah say thou shalt not kill btw?


 
Everyone's relationship with 'god' is unique. There is nothing I've said here that I haven't politely discussed with Muslims, Christians, Athiests etc.

It is not for me to cast out anybody, but the vegetarian aspects of spiritual traditions are strong and it is no suprise.

Allah, being arabic for 'god' and pupportedly the same entity as the God of the jews and christians, instructs to 'not kill' via Moses in the Book of Exodus. Commandment 6.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> _find yourself increasingly drawn to Mecca_



Good use of a movie quote: Archer in Scum.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Everyone's relationship with 'god' is unique. There is nothing I've said here that I haven't politely discussed with Muslims, Christians, Athiests etc.
> 
> It is not for me to cast out anybody, but the vegetarian aspects of spiritual traditions are strong and it is no suprise.
> 
> Allah, being arabic for 'god' and pupportedly the same entity as the God of the jews and christians, instructs to 'not kill' via Moses in the Book of Exodus. Commandment 6.


 
I rather think Allah supersedes Moses when he legitmises and in fact instructs Muslims to kill (note, i'm not for a second saying muslims believe or follow this shit).

edit: actually, forget it, sorry for OT stuff.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

though similar shit can be found in all religions to be honest. lot's daughters, etc 



it always makes me laugh when people say such and such is a religion of peace and if you don't believe that it is peaceful you're not a "true" muslim/jew/christian etc - yeah, there are good messages in all religions, but some equally bad stuff in all of them, and who's to say that say a Christian Identity believer isn't as passionate and committed about their faith as someone who believes in some liberal version of christianity?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Everyone's relationship with 'god' is unique. There is nothing I've said here that I haven't politely discussed with Muslims, Christians, Athiests etc.
> 
> It is not for me to cast out anybody, but the vegetarian aspects of spiritual traditions are strong and it is no suprise.
> 
> Allah, being arabic for 'god' and pupportedly the same entity as the God of the jews and christians, instructs to 'not kill' via Moses in the Book of Exodus. Commandment 6.


 
that's not true though, if god didn't want people to eat meat then why didn't he just say so instead of creating elaborate food laws etc?


----------



## JHE (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Allah, being arabic for 'god' and pupportedly the same entity as the God of the jews and christians, instructs to 'not kill' via Moses in the Book of Exodus. Commandment 6.


 
Oh, for goodness sake, the Mosaic prohibition of _murder_ is not at all the same thing as opposition to all killing of people, let alone prohibition of all killing of animals.

As for Old Mo... he was a bloody warrior!




The craven Islamophilia on u75 (and in other haunts of supposedly left-wing little echo boxes of Establishment cant) is stomach-churningly disgusting, but you, Taff, seem a little different.  You go a bit further.  You are a sincere God-bothering Islamophile.  May Allah reward your piety, you poor deluded mug.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> that's not true though, if god didn't want people to eat meat then why didn't he just say so instead of creating elaborate food laws etc?


 
'he' didnt create the food laws. They are far more of human origin.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

JHE said:


> Oh, for goodness sake, the Mosaic prohibition of _murder_ is not at all the same thing as opposition to all killing of people, let alone prohibition of all killing of animals.
> 
> As for Old Mo... he was a bloody warrior!
> 
> ...


 
I certainly aint an islamophile. There at least as many things I criticise in orthodox presentations of Islam as in Christianity or Judaism. Of the well known world religion the closet which represents where I am at is Buddhism.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 20, 2011)

Oh look, somebody's been re-united with their fave hobby horse.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> 'he' didnt create the food laws. They are far more of human origin.


 
How do you know? Why assume that bad / illogical stuff comes from people and not god? 

fwiw i do believe in god, but i'm not entirely convinced he is completely good ...


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

Proper Tidy - just wanted to say I go along with all you say in the last posts quoting me. Of course it doesn't do to just denounce 'thick racists' without an understanding and discussion of all sorts of circumstances in which these phenomena arise. But there can be assumption here and elsewhere that unless one repeatedly cites and discusses those issues one is just denouncing 'thick racists' and little else. It's an unfair assumption.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> How do you know? Why assume that bad / illogical stuff comes from people and not god?
> 
> fwiw i do believe in god, but i'm not entirely convinced he is completely good ...


 
*If* god is logical and good then s/he is not going to be a source of bad / illogical stuff. Humans have a far more obvious track record, along with a track record for misrepresenting stuff. Whether 'god' is completely good is another matter entirely. Certainly the Bible seems to describe a pretty 2 faced 'god' - the Koran version being closer on the whole (IMO) to the standard OT model.

It is not inconceivable that there are different concepts of 'god' or entities being talked about. I was weirded out from a young age at 'god's' use of the term 'we' in the OT, something echoed in the Koran. Then there is all that Ancient Astronaut stuff that will have Butchers eyes bulging as soon as I mention it.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 20, 2011)

http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/3989123281/wannabe-muslim-killer-bill-baker-slams-edl-leadership


----------



## Corax (Mar 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> 'he' didnt create the food laws. They are far more of human origin.


 
This.  A lot of the food laws in religions were perfectly sensible health advice for the time and environment they originated in.  Clerics of most religions having historically also fulfilled the role of teacher, I guess it's not surprising that domestic advice and religion got bound up together.


----------



## albionism (Mar 20, 2011)

Britain back as British
That's what we're marching for,
We don't want to cause no trouble
Just don't want Muslamic Law.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 21, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I certainly aint an islamophile. There at least as many things I criticise in orthodox presentations of Islam as in Christianity or Judaism. Of the well known world religion the closet which represents where I am at is Buddhism.


 
I hate the liberals who make apologies for Islam's vile. Don't mean to sound like Tommy Robinson but I have had to deal with a lot of shit to do with Islam and south asian culture. I on the other hand ain't joined the EDL because I know they are a bunch of scapegoating, racist scum who have their own agenda(to whip up racial hatred and tensions). But let us not bury our heads in the sand and say 'let them do what they like to their people because we have to respect their traditions' etc. Fuck the apologists.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 21, 2011)

ignore


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 21, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I hate the liberals who make apologies for Islam's vile. Don't mean to sound like Tommy Robinson but I have had to deal with a lot of shit to do with Islam and south asian culture. I on the other hand ain't joined the EDL because I know they are a bunch of scapegoating, racist scum who have their own agenda(to whip up racial hatred and tensions). But let us not bury our heads in the sand and say 'let them do what they like to their people because we have to respect their traditions' etc. Fuck the apologists.



Yes, all muslims are the same and behave appallingly.


----------



## Apathy (Mar 21, 2011)

Omg edl wtf lol


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 21, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I hate the liberals who make apologies for Islam's vile. Don't mean to sound like Tommy Robinson but I have had to deal with a lot of shit to do with Islam and south asian culture. I on the other hand ain't joined the EDL because I know they are a bunch of scapegoating, racist scum who have their own agenda(to whip up racial hatred and tensions). But let us not bury our heads in the sand and say 'let them do what they like to their people because we have to respect their traditions' etc. Fuck the apologists.


 
I for one am neither an apologist or all that liberal when it comes to scum who abuse people. People who abuse others using a merciful 'god' as an excuse are blaspheming. If they are using some other humans words citing 'god' as an excuse they have been misled by blasphemers and are not in too different a category.


----------



## audiotech (Mar 21, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I hate the liberals who make apologies for Islam's vile. Don't mean to sound like Tommy Robinson but I have had to deal with a lot of shit to do with Islam and south asian culture. I on the other hand ain't joined the EDL because I know they are a bunch of scapegoating, racist scum who have their own agenda(to whip up racial hatred and tensions). But let us not bury our heads in the sand and say 'let them do what they like to their people because we have to respect their traditions' etc. Fuck the apologists.


 
Jesus!


----------



## manny-p (Mar 21, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Yes, all muslims are the same and behave appallingly.


 
And I said that? You are making stuff up are you not?


----------



## manny-p (Mar 21, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Jesus!


 
are you SWP or something?


----------



## manny-p (Mar 21, 2011)

Apathy said:


> Omg edl wtf lol


 
Are you having a laugh?


----------



## audiotech (Mar 21, 2011)

allybaba said:


> are you SWP or something?


 
Something and nothing.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 21, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Something and nothing.


 
ahh socialist party. even better.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 21, 2011)

No, you were right the first time


----------



## manny-p (Mar 21, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> No, you were right the first time


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 21, 2011)

if you fancy a laugh....

http://englishdefenceleague.org/content.php?255-Press-Release-EDL-Is-A-Human-Rights-Organisation


----------



## audiotech (Mar 21, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> No, you were right the first time



Both wrong.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 21, 2011)

Fellow-traveller.

You can stop paying subs but you never leave.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 21, 2011)

allybaba said:


> And I said that? You are making stuff up are you not?


 
I don't know. Perhaps i'm wrong but your post seemed to be nodding towards the tendency of some folk to place teh Muslims as uniquely terrible. I mean, it's within living memory that Irish Catholics would send their daughters off to be abused and have their babies snatched from them for the crime of conceiving out of wedlock. How is that kind of thing being dealt with nowadays? Has their been a liberalisation of attitudes? We can only hope adherents of the more Brutal end of Islam experience a similar metamorphosis.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 21, 2011)

It's already happening c66 - not that most muslims in the uk are adherents of the "most brutal end of Islam" anyway ...


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 21, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't know. Perhaps i'm wrong but your post seemed to be nodding towards the tendency of some folk to place teh Muslims as uniquely terrible. I mean, it's within living memory that Irish Catholics would send their daughters off to be abused and have their babies snatched from them for the crime of conceiving out of wedlock. How is that kind of thing being dealt with nowadays? Has their been a liberalisation of attitudes? We can only hope adherents of the more Brutal end of Islam experience a similar metamorphosis.


 
You what? How dare you suggest that there is a brutal end. Your post to allyba is shit.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 21, 2011)

Everything in Leeds is brutal.


----------



## audiotech (Mar 21, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Fellow-traveller.
> 
> You can stop paying subs but you never leave.



Not true, a good friend of mine was expelled after I had left in 1990. That's over twenty years ago, but keep on keeping on with the old nonsense if it makes you feel any better.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 21, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Everything in Leeds is brutal.


 
Smile


----------



## manny-p (Mar 21, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> *I don't know. Perhaps i'm wrong* but your post seemed to be nodding towards the tendency of some folk to place teh Muslims as uniquely terrible. I mean, it's within living memory that Irish Catholics would send their daughters off to be abused and have their babies snatched from them for the crime of conceiving out of wedlock. How is that kind of thing being dealt with nowadays? Has their been a liberalisation of attitudes? We can only hope adherents of the more Brutal end of Islam experience a similar metamorphosis.


 
Yeah you are wrong.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 21, 2011)

About what?


----------



## Corax (Mar 21, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> About what?


 
Which there/their to use.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 21, 2011)

Oh.  two out of three isn't bad!


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 21, 2011)

ugh.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 21, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Not true, a good friend of mine was expelled after I had left in 1990. That's over twenty years ago, but keep on keeping on with the old nonsense if it makes you feel any better.


 
Full of sunshine and good humour aren't you?


----------



## audiotech (Mar 21, 2011)

Of course.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 22, 2011)

can't think of the right thing to caption this without sounding sneery, but top marks to this fine infidel for telling it how it is : 

   ( apolos if re-post)


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 23, 2011)

cantsin said:


> can't think of the right thing to caption this without sounding sneery, but top marks to this fine infidel for telling it how it is :
> 
> ( apolos if re-post)




It is a re post, but no need to apologise. It's gone viral this week. An absolute classic.


----------



## Fingers (Mar 23, 2011)

The remix deserves a place in the EDL Watch thread. Genius


----------



## creak (Mar 23, 2011)

Proper lols, that's great


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 23, 2011)

LOL the bloke behind him with the cap and scarf over his face does a face palm when he says Muslamic ray guns.


----------



## Fingers (Mar 23, 2011)

http://thedailydaytoday.blogspot.com/2011/03/english-defence-league-cause.html


----------



## Corax (Mar 23, 2011)

Fingers said:


> http://thedailydaytoday.blogspot.com/2011/03/english-defence-league-cause.html


 
That article's just ridiculous.



> A donation of just £12 could buy young Timmy here enough coke for a whole weekend



As if.


----------



## Fingers (Mar 23, 2011)

He has got his own ringtone now

http://www.mediafire.com/?y6a4kb38l8r7ks4


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 25, 2011)

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/rbnews/8933786.GANTS_HILL__Racist_attack_on_mosque/

These guys where on the look out for Muslamic Ray guns?


----------



## audiotech (Mar 25, 2011)




----------



## Corax (Mar 25, 2011)

He was saying 'muslamic rape gangs'....

I dunno.  There's so much to legitimately laugh at when it comes to pissed up hatefans like this, it just seems a bit weird to load all the lols onto something that people are deliberately mishearing.  Especially when there's stuff like the '_How would they like it if we built a mosque in Mecca, eh?_', which is just as ridiculous and stupid but without the need for dishonest aural slips.

The remix is still funny though.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 27, 2011)

> ‎'Aparently' Tommy's old house was fire bombed last night and EDL sprayed on the door... Foaming has commenced without a shred of evidence as to who it was http://www.facebook.com/English.Defence.League.EDL/posts/214905355189472



week before a demo? who would have thunk it


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 27, 2011)

> We Will Protect the Royal Wedding from the Planned Muslim Disruption



http://www.facebook.com/pages/We-Wi...the-Planned-Muslim-Disruption/172765822776232


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 27, 2011)

My god "The Muslim disruption of the royal wedding" You couldn't make this stuff up.

Just what the EDL needs...

website looks suspect just by it's design alone. Could the EDL be setting up their very own false flag operation?

Would be interesting to know who registered the domain name for this website.

muslimsagainstcrusades.com/


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 27, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> muslimsagainstcrusades.com/



This is the WHOIS results...



> Whois Server Version 2.0
> 
> Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
> with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
> ...


----------



## Corax (Mar 27, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> My god "The Muslim disruption of the royal wedding" You couldn't make this stuff up.
> 
> Just what the EDL needs...
> 
> ...


 
I dunno about it being false flag.  I'm a white English Christian, and they've got a point if you ask me.  Bit of hyperbole in the language, but other than that...


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 27, 2011)

> Private Domain
> Protect your contact information with our private domain service. We replace your contact information with our own. We forward any correspondence to you, after filtering out all the spam and junk mail. This service is just $2.00 a year.
> 
> Note: We do not replace your name. Only your email, phone, and address. Please read our article for more information: Problems with Proxy Registration.



http://www.dynadot.com/domain/privacy.html


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 27, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> website looks suspect just by it's design alone. Could the EDL be setting up their very own false flag operation?





> MUSLIMS AGAINST CRUSADES
> info@muslimsagainstcrusades.com
> 
> For further information call 07957 221 7895



Give em a bell and see what you think.


----------



## JHE (Mar 27, 2011)

> muslimsagainstcrusades.com



...are promising to disrupt the Will 'n' Kate Show....

My guess is that this is just the latest of various names used by the stunt-happy Bakri-ite Slamists who used to be al-Muhajiroun.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 27, 2011)

As a small aside.. Some EDL arseholes have started trolling the UKUncut facebook page.. Would any urbs care to assist in the piss taking of these arseholes.  I know it's a bit late on  Sunday evening and all that..... Some of them are so dumb as to be facepalmingly bad...


----------



## Frankie Jack (Mar 28, 2011)

Unbelievable abuse from these idiots..


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 28, 2011)

Frankie Jack said:


> Unbelievable abuse from these idiots..



One of them called Gavin asks the question;



> Anyone know the total cost of damage yesterday. To which no doubt the taxpayer has to pay??



Pretty fuckin irrelevant question there from a complete tool, if you compare it to the 3 million pounds being spent every day on the Lybia intervention and the billions of pounds tax dodging that the activists brought attention to..

Yesterday was excellent. Well done to UK Uncut for drawing attention to those tax dodging fucks. I'm sure you are going to recruit more up for it people now. The edl have no answers and are not defending anything.
If the cuts go thru we may very well see real damage to people, especially regards the NHS.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 28, 2011)

EDL demos have cost over 7 Million since they started, and it's likely to be over 8 after this weekend.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 28, 2011)

Just reading some of the threads on uk uncut... LOL


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 28, 2011)

EDL have asked all their members to report bomb the Uk uncut page.....


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 28, 2011)

That's very interesting tbh and goes along with what I was thinking for a while.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 28, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> EDL demos have cost over 7 Million since they started, and it's likely to be over 8 after this weekend.


 
What's going on this weekend? (Not that I think that should necessarily be used as an argument against the edl)


----------



## Corax (Mar 28, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> EDL demos have cost over 7 Million since they started, and it's likely to be over 8 after this weekend.


 


frogwoman said:


> What's going on this weekend? (Not that I think that should necessarily be used as an argument against the edl)


 
50,000 racist cunts kicking off at random outside Yates around the country?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 28, 2011)

Yeah. I know they protested in Reading last weekend, just wondering what's going on now. 

It's interesting that they're targetting UKUncut etc and does fit in with what I've thought about them for a while.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 28, 2011)

This weekend init....


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 28, 2011)

The inevitable Downfall parody featuring the Muslamic Rayguns.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 29, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah. I know they protested in Reading last weekend, just wondering what's going on now.
> 
> It's interesting that they're targetting UKUncut etc and does fit in with what I've thought about them for a while.



Which is?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Mar 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> This weekend init....


 
Hmmm, interesting rhetoric: "defending their culture" and "no surrender", but still protesting "peacefully" !

That is such a shit flyer.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 30, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Hmmm, interesting rhetoric: "defending their culture" and "no surrender", but still protesting "peacefully" !
> 
> That is such a shit flyer.


 
Good points. It is shit isn't it? Not sure that will put off those with shit for brains, but numbers are generally going down. They have put out an appeal for people to help with all sorts of admin, research and stuff. It's all very weird. Is it falling to bits? Probably not, but let us hope the trajectory is downwards.


----------



## xes (Mar 30, 2011)

Who wants to help me out with some links, showing which edl front men have links to nazi type shit. I know Alan lake is a dodgy cunt. But i need more.

I want actual proof that the EDL are a racist organisation. to shut some edl cunts up once and for all.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

Get one the exposing racism and intolerance online web site, fuck loads on there 

not got the link to hand as im on work laptop and facebook is banned.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Mar 30, 2011)

What BOB2009 said - v good resource.

Also the Lancaster Unity blog thing and the Malatesta blog site has some good posts on the EDL.

It's a matter of record that Tanning Tommy was photographed at a BNP meeting with Richard Edmunds (John Tyndall's old no.2) - something that the EDL to date have failed to comment on.

e2a:  "Tommy" joined the BNP on a family membership in 2004.   Allegedly his father was a former member of the NF as well....fancy that!


----------



## Corax (Mar 30, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Good points. It is shit isn't it? Not sure that will put off those with shit for brains, but numbers are generally going down. They have put out an appeal for people to help with all sorts of admin, research and stuff. It's all very weird. Is it falling to bits? Probably not, but let us hope the trajectory is downwards.


 
Been plenty of talk about the people at the top of EDL spending all the donations and merchandise profits on coke etc.  Whether true or not, that'll piss a few people off nicely.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

£10 a face mask + P&P LOL


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 30, 2011)

Sikh establishment turns on Guramit Singh

http://www.turbancampaign.com/updat...unce-edl-by-vaisakhi-or-face-excommunication/


----------



## Fingers (Mar 30, 2011)

Proof is for commies and students


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

home now, link here

http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=127519123948101&v=wall


----------



## audiotech (Mar 30, 2011)

A couple of links:

http://www.1millionunited.org/

Some info on this blog from time to time:

http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/


----------



## emanymton (Mar 30, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Good points. It is shit isn't it? Not sure that will put off those with shit for brains, but numbers are generally going down.


They will get a very big (by there standards) turnout in Blackburn


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

would be amazed if they pass 2k they only got 1.5k at Luton and that was the "bigone"


----------



## emanymton (Mar 30, 2011)

2-3K, i bet. Local support in Blackburn will be huge


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

We betting on offcial police report or what ever Tommy says at the end of the day?


----------



## emanymton (Mar 30, 2011)

UAF estimate?


----------



## emanymton (Mar 30, 2011)

I hope your right though


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

Lots of stuff kicking off and people not happy with the last few demos, i couldnt afford to go to demos every month so fuck knows how they do. 

But as you say there may be locals, but how many will be bussed in? not much chat about  coaches on the facebooks this week.

no doubt tomorrow there will be an shooting or something to get the masses wound up.


----------



## Corax (Mar 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> no doubt tomorrow there will be an shooting or something to get the masses wound up.


 
Like the 'muslim youths' that beat up a 'priest' you mean?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

And his old house was firebombed last weekend...

PS you can still get tickets for the coach for £30 dont you know


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

not over 3k then 

http://www.blackburncitizen.co.uk/n...ounter_protesters_limited_to_crowds_of_3_000/


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## emanymton (Mar 30, 2011)

And they will police that how ...


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

fuck knows... lol


----------



## emanymton (Mar 30, 2011)

I have a vision of there being 3001 ELD and then drawing straws to decide who has to go home


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

£20 says they send Ryan Muslamic Ray guns home.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 30, 2011)

Funny thing is there more than likey to have 3,000 straws with them


----------



## veltins (Mar 30, 2011)

you are all wrong, the EDL are there to stop muslim WMD including ray guns..........u have been warned!!


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 30, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Which is?


 
That they've become more than a single-issue "opposing islam" organisation.


----------



## Fingers (Mar 30, 2011)

Oh surprise surprise. Two days before the demo, their token Sikh leader is victim to an imaginary attack by three imaginary cars of muslim's with imaginary bats and one imaginary gun and he made a miraculous escape.

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/335/9853243015.jpg


----------



## Corax (Mar 30, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh surprise surprise. Two days before the demo, their token Sikh leader is victim to an imaginary attack by three imaginary cars of muslim's with imaginary bats and one imaginary gun and he made a miraculous escape.
> 
> http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/335/9853243015.jpg


 
Not enough s in the world.  Gullible idiots.

Throwing the kitchen sink at stirring up a race war atm.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Mar 30, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> That they've become more than a single-issue "opposing islam" organisation.



Hmm - EDL report-bombing the "socialists and students" of UK Uncut with "populist" rhetoric...matched with the "march and grow" (or "stand on the spot and grow") approach....with advice from Mr Lake about politics in general...why does this remind me of 1970's NF?  Remember the NF had a hardline anti-socialist/communist line then - protests against schools with "red" teachers, severe dislike of trade unions...with the BNP in its financial and membership terminal coma throes, what the chance of the EDL moving into a more overt hardline nationalist direction to fill the void?


----------



## treelover (Mar 30, 2011)

I agree with Martin Smith, the sight of those dreadful English flags is just disgusting....


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 31, 2011)

xes said:


> Who wants to help me out with some links, showing which edl front men have links to nazi type shit. I know Alan lake is a dodgy cunt. But i need more.
> 
> I want actual proof that the EDL are a racist organisation. to shut some edl cunts up once and for all.



This is a weird but interesting read we have discussed before, the '2000' date is an error of course, it's 2010. It is a blog by 'Lionheart' -  a nutcase in many respects, but he clearly hates the EDL leadership despite being a founder member. the piece talks about the organisation being over run by neo nazi infiltration. When shown that even a founder member says they are used as a nazi front it might indeed be time for the cunts you have in mind to shut it 

http://lionheartuk.blogspot.com/2010/03/infiltration-of-edl.html

ETA: That post is 10 months old, EDL has waxed and waned somewhat and some of the characters may not be so big an influence now, I really couldn't say. Extremists so often fall out and commitment is thus transitory. The principle still holds.


Separately, if you are on Facebook there is a group called 'Still Laughing At the English Defence League' (at least one seems to post here). Day and night they print screenshots of silly billies being racist, although the main focus is how fucking dense they tend to be.


----------



## Fingers (Mar 31, 2011)

Whoops, a split. Diddyman of the NWI has had a photo screenshotted of himself doing a nazi salute and his excuse was he was pissed. He has now been banned from doing a speech on Saturday and is not a happy bunny,

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/389/8999249676.png


----------



## gawkrodger (Mar 31, 2011)

call me daft, but what does NWI stand for. North West something?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

Infidels


----------



## manny-p (Mar 31, 2011)

treelover said:


> I agree with Martin Smith, the sight of those dreadful English flags is just disgusting....


 
This is daft. Love how lefties froth at the mouth when they see one. =) Get a grip.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh surprise surprise. Two days before the demo, their token Sikh leader is victim to an imaginary attack by three imaginary cars of muslim's with imaginary bats and one imaginary gun and he made a miraculous escape.
> 
> http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/335/9853243015.jpg



This might be from the Luton demo, if not it's almost word for word the same thing?


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 31, 2011)

allybaba said:


> This is daft. Love how lefties froth at the mouth when they see one. =) Get a grip.


 
I think TL was being sarcastic !


----------



## manny-p (Mar 31, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I think TL was being sarcastic !


 
 if she was and apologies.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

He and yes.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2011)

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/new.../54581/transport-police-hunt-for-racist-group

love the comments, 



> Maybe British transport police should do a YouTube search for "Yorkshire EDL train to Rochdale", there is a video there that these not too bright mindless racists posted of themselves.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 31, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> He and yes.


 
Are you TL's PA or something?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

Yes I am


----------



## manny-p (Mar 31, 2011)

Fair enough.


----------



## Corax (Mar 31, 2011)

Just seen a very good argument in their favour tbf:

Osama Bin-Laden has _*not once*_ been spotted in a town where the EDL have demonstrated.  Fact.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

Aye, before the EDL came to my town we had Al Qaeda hosting coffee mornings, Taliban playschools, militant madrasas in the Legion, the lot. Thank you English Defence League.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 31, 2011)

proper tidy said:


> aye, before the edl came to my town we had al qaeda hosing coffee mornings, taliban playschools, militant madrasas in the legion, the lot. Thank you english defence league.


 
you speek truth pt why wont peeple opun there eyes about wot is hapening too are grate cuntery???? Nfse (no fucking sense evidently)


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

nfse kta etc


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## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2011)

You may all laugh now, but when Islam takes over the UK with the stealth Jihad, then what will you all do?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

Praise Allah


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Mar 31, 2011)

You watch, they'll impose their Arabic numerical system on us, kebab shops will be all the rage, and the more fiendish and clever of us will be forced to play that little known Persian game, chess.  It's a bleedin' outrage.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

On the plus side, dating will be easier.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this:

http://www.revolutionarycommunist.o...ti-cuts-and-anti-racist-stalls-swp-walks-away

Somewhat tamer account here:

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/issue/663/11499/23-03-2011/edl-thugs-threaten-socialists


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Mar 31, 2011)

^^^If that's true, then my "EDL=New NF" theory might have some actual legs....


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 31, 2011)

this is a good slag off of the EDLs jealousy of the anti cuts movement.

http://superfurryandy.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/the-politics-of-envy/

Anyway, enjoy this thread while it lasts, it doesn't face Mecca so the Islamic hoards will shortly be along to chop off all our heads. Or summat.


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 31, 2011)

Stalls defo got disrupted, has happened elsewhere before. It was more the SWP-baiting I was unsure of.


----------



## radical cleric (Mar 31, 2011)

st george was turkish


----------



## invisibleplanet (Mar 31, 2011)

radical cleric said:


> st george was turkish


 
He couldn't have been Turkish, because there was no Turkey back then. 

e2a: His dad wasn't Turkish, he was Cappodican. His mother was from Palestine. George himself was born in Diospolis (City of Gods) in the Roman province of Syria Palestina (now within Israeli territory and known as Lod again). 
Read up on St. George. It's very interesting. He's not Turkish!


----------



## Corax (Mar 31, 2011)

An encouraging start nonetheless.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 31, 2011)

Great name


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## Fingers (Mar 31, 2011)

Halifax Division post YouTube film of themselves being racist on a train on the way to Rochdale. When they find out the BTP are on their case they try to delete the video, not realising that Expose have already uploaded a copy.  Too stupid for a Facepalm.

Another excellent blog post by Darcey

http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/4241037056/wasted-edl-halifax-division-hunted-by-police-for


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## Fingers (Apr 1, 2011)

Letter from the police to one of the North West Infidels. Looks like the OB have been doing their homework.

http://twitpic.com/4fgap8/full

Meanwhile, Guramit, their token racist shiek is being accused of being a 'paki grassing twat' due to Diddyman from NWI photgraphed doing a hitler salute and subsequently claiming to be massively pissed.

Fascinating stuff.

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/390/0690717760.png

T%he wheels are falling off


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2011)

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2011/04/edl-skinheads-to-meet-in-gay-bar/


----------



## Corax (Apr 1, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://politicalscrapbook.net/2011/04/edl-skinheads-to-meet-in-gay-bar/


 
I don't get it.  Gay people can't be fash?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2011)

A lot of them are well homophobic init... even despite having a LGBT division.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 1, 2011)

I realise you are being ironic here Corax.

From: 







To:






Bizarre that some gay men have been and are supporters of Nazi ideology when considering in 1933 an order was issued by the Nazi minister of interior to close all gay bars and condemned homosexuals as "socially aberrant." This, part of the Nazis' attempt to purify German society and propagate an "Aryan master race". Storm troopers raided the institutions and gathering places of homosexuals.who were sent in the autumn of the same year to the newly built concentration camps.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 1, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> That they've become more than a single-issue "opposing islam" organisation.



From the very start they appeared to have all the trappings to become a potential Freikorps/brownshirt type organization. Their body language was very familiar to everyone even if some people didn't want to admit it. Even the name sounds like some camoflaged Oswald Mosley offshoot organization from the post war era. 
The tone and size and atmosphere of their demos can only provide newfound courage for broader issue far right groups to come back onto the streets from which they were brutally removed in the mid 90's, not, I might add by Harry Potters with placards. The EDL is, in effect, an initiation to far right politics.

The UAF and SWP "Smash the EDL" slogan has acted as bait for the EDL (or elements around the EDL) to broaden their scope and target the left more openly. I am not saying they shouldn't have had that slogan. The capacity to practice what they preach would have been helpful though. The Psychology of the right is, in general, cowardly but they will not hesitate to attack who they deem to be weak.

However, there is a bright side to all this. The left will now have to toughen up or get off the street. The left has way to soft an image and attitude to convince people they mean business.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 1, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I realise you are being ironic here Corax.
> 
> From:
> 
> ...


 
There is a novel just out ( sorry it was last year) on the nazi gay scene - 'Children of the Sun'


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 1, 2011)

There is an intriguing post on the What is anarchism thread on Socilaist Unity which claims that ex EDL members have joined the IWCA


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 1, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> There is an intriguing post on the What is anarchism thread on Socilaist Unity which claims that ex EDL members have joined the IWCA


 
Can you elaborate on the relevance of this?


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 1, 2011)

> "The gap created by Labour’s betrayal of the working class was until recently being occupied by the BNP. The various incarnations of the cobweb left all built on the shibboleth of 1917 have failed to offer any alternative.The liberal and student anarchist scene is stuck in a ghetto of stunts in university towns.
> 
> Recently the EDL have begun to claim new territory for a working class that has in the wake of labours betrayal been excluded from politics and is increasingly the victim of the established parties neo liberalism .The states anti working class multi culturalism, its support for globalisation, immigration increasingly places the working class alongside groups based on religion, race or gender all competing for the same pot. In other words divide and rule.
> 
> ...



The post from Socialist Unity.

If true it is very scary.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 1, 2011)

Rather depends on why they are ex-members doesn't it?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 2, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> The post from Socialist Unity.
> 
> If true it is very scary.


 
Looks suspiciously like a very poor attempt at an April fools joke to me, as the next post seems to imply.


----------



## Dhimmi (Apr 2, 2011)

So is this uniquely for local antics or things like their vids? They were holding up audio from some seppo RW Muppet radio presenter as a shining example of how brilliant the rest of the world thinks they are... would that be relevent on here?


----------



## BlackArab (Apr 2, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The inevitable Downfall parody featuring the Muslamic Rayguns.



sounded like rape gangs to me but I did struggle with understanding his QE


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 2, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> The post from Socialist Unity.
> 
> If true it is very scary.


 
Ooops, I missed this and posted a new thread.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)

Im off out for lunch, but if anyone wants to follow today this is the link 

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...ackburn_EDL_protest_and_counter_demo_updates/


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2011)

Reports coming in that the East Anglian EDL coach en-route to Blackburn has blown up/caught fire near Halifax - 34 EDL members stranded.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 2, 2011)

dunno but my first thought is that there are loads of these far-right parties/front groups being set up all the time which normally fall on their arse so i wouldn't worry too much. could be wrong mind.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Can you elaborate on the relevance of this?


 
If true then this is a very interesting development . On the other hand it just might be misinformation.


----------



## killer b (Apr 2, 2011)

Preston station crawling with coppers, and a few EDL making their way home. The cop I spoke too reckoned there were 3000 out, little trouble. Sunny day too.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 2, 2011)

Just leaving Blackurn. Could see nothing of the EDL demo from the pen the police had us in but there where about 1500 BADAR/UAF. Based on rumour and I sress rumour, I am pleased to say I was wrong as I have heard they where quite small, less that 1000 I heard but I have doublts. Also heard ther was a lot of infighting amoungest them and that robinson got attacked. How true it is I don't know. Sorry for ant spelling/typing errors I am posting from my phone and I'm shit at it


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)

Been out all day for beers


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> would be amazed if they pass 2k they only got 1.5k at Luton and that was the "bigone"


 


emanymton said:


> 2-3K, i bet. Local support in Blackburn will be huge



Told you


----------



## killer b (Apr 2, 2011)

The copper I spoke to said 3000 - should we do the opposite to what we normally do with police estimates, and halve it?

He seemed to think the end of the football season would see numbers swelling over the summer. any thoughts?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 2, 2011)

Looks bigger than Luton, not terribly suprising in many ways. The decline may have been halted for now. I doubt it was anywhere near 3,000 though. Perhaps with the antis thrown in.

The up side is that there are strong indications of infighting among the apes and it is even said that Tommy the Cokehead himself took a bit of a thumping. Fucking rabble.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)

Numbers will fall, loads of in fighting going on, people cant afford demos all the time, and they dont get anything from them other than a piss up and maybe a ruck. 

Loads where warned not to attend today and got lifted as soon as they arrived in town. 

demo numbers for older demos here, don't think they have ever past 3k, and i will take the police report over the word of one copper anyday. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Defence_League


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 2, 2011)

you got any links for sources to the days general thuggery bob?


----------



## audiotech (Apr 2, 2011)

What's going on here then?

http://qik.com/video/38879046


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)

Been out all day but have read there was some big fights on the EDL side, twitter is a good start for links etc... Watching Harry potter now lol


----------



## emanymton (Apr 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Im off out for lunch, but if anyone wants to follow today this is the link
> 
> http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...ackburn_EDL_protest_and_counter_demo_updates/


 
well according to this link the police say 2000, EDL and 500 anti's. The 500 hundred figure is clearly bollocks but going of audiotech's link there where more of them than us.

That's assuming that video is of there main demo, it's hard to tell because I got nowhere near it and the tag says it was in Darwin not Blackburn?


----------



## Corax (Apr 2, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I realise you are being ironic here Corax.
> 
> From:
> 
> ...


 
The EDL aren't nazis.

Some (a lot probably) EDL members are homophobes, some like waving swastikas around and doing the munich wave.  That doesn't make the EDL a nazi or homophobic organisation.  There's plenty wrong with them as a mass, plenty wrong with their 'official stance' - I just think that angles like homophobia are a distraction.  Far better to target them on the core stuff rather than allowing them the mercy of tangents IMHO.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-12945734

They have also closed the NWI division page and kicked Diddyman out... he was one of the ones nicked today after being told to stay away. 

none seem that botherd about the bomb in NI today either.....


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)

> Craig Hamilton- EDL facebook ------- The problem is the demos are not growing. Can you wonder why when you travel the country,get put into a pub that you dont want to drink in,walk 100 yards so called march, are surrounded by steel cordons. Then after an hour of the same people making speeches. are hounded out of a town on coaches or trains hardly a perfect day is it.This is not freedom of protest its contrition.



stuff like this on the main page.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 2, 2011)

Corax said:


> The EDL aren't nazis.



I was replying to your earlier post.



Corax said:


> I don't get it.  Gay people can't be fash?



The images are of Ernst Rohm who was gay and a Nazi and Martin Webster who is gay and a Nazi.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2011)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...urkas-confront-Muslims.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Shaming-St-Georges-Cross-Vile-EDL-thugs-2-000-strong-hate-protest-wear-flag-coloured-burkas-confront-Muslims.

Fuck me, even the daily hate are not fans today?


----------



## emanymton (Apr 2, 2011)

Yeah but not one mention of the counter protest.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 2, 2011)

'EDL Implodes in Blackburn. 2nd April 2011.'



> In the days leading up to the Blackburn demo, the North West Infidels, an EDL splinter group had managed to convince themselves that the EDL leadership had been informing on them. They singled out Guramit Singh as the offender.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/4g8hz8


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 2, 2011)

Supposedly the split groups are having a boom in membership according to twitter. anyone confirm this?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2011)

No idea, but this made me chuckle - 

http://twitpic.com/4g8sae


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 2, 2011)

lol, of course not


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 3, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/4g8td8


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 3, 2011)

Dennis moore trotter gets his priorities right: 

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...98998827_100001733840412_250093_1147818_n.jpg


----------



## BlackArab (Apr 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/4g8td8



Something tells me Diddyman was/is a Hip-Hop fan. This makes me sad.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 3, 2011)

skip to 10 mins in for the part where tommy fucks it up.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 3, 2011)

27 000 at Ewood Park yesterday.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 3, 2011)

29 mins in one of them bottles the stage .....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 3, 2011)

There isn't a big enough facepalm!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 3, 2011)

From "Tommy's" speech: "Guramit Singh has broken down race barriers that have never been broken down before?" WTF? Yeah, 'cos no white people have ever been mates with Sikhs before, have they?


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 3, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> 27 000 at Ewood Park yesterday.


 
really?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 3, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> really?


 
Nope, i got the wrong week. I do wonder how many Blackburn took to Arsenal yesterday though.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 3, 2011)

They can't really keep this up though can they? Or maybe they can, i dunno, but with these splits etc it's starting to look like a joke


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> From "Tommy's" speech: "Guramit Singh has broken down race barriers that have never been broken down before?" WTF? Yeah, 'cos no white people have ever been mates with Sikhs before, have they?


 
they bonded over a shared hatred of muslims. I have a dream etc.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> skip to 10 mins in for the part where tommy fucks it up.




The implosion is just too delightful.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 3, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> 27 000 at Ewood Park yesterday.



Arsenal   0 - 0   Blackburn

Edit: I see you've corrected that now.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2011)

Since yesterday afternoon the blogs and boards of the EDL have been a mess of confusion, despondence and recrimination. People chucking it in left, right and centre. Very very funny. If you have the time and the inclination the best places to follow the meltdown are probably 'exposing racism and intolerance online' and 'Still laughing at the EDL' pages on FB


----------



## sunny jim (Apr 3, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Since yesterday afternoon the blogs and boards of the EDL have been a mess of confusion, despondence and recrimination. People chucking it in left, right and centre. Very very funny. If you have the time and the inclination the best places to follow the meltdown are probably 'exposing racism and intolerance online' and 'Still laughing at the EDL' pages on FB


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 3, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Dennis moore trotter gets his priorities right:
> 
> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...98998827_100001733840412_250093_1147818_n.jpg


There aren't enough  in the World for that sort of fuckwittery


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 3, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> From "Tommy's" speech: "Guramit Singh has broken down race barriers that have never been broken down before?" WTF? Yeah, 'cos no white people have ever been mates with Sikhs before, have they?


Guramit Singh or useful idiot to give him his full title


----------



## BigTom (Apr 3, 2011)

Manchester division splits from edl?

http://twitpic.com/4gk9u2


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 
How do you do these screen grabs? Where you get the whole convo in?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 3, 2011)

BigTom said:


> Manchester division splits from edl?
> 
> http://twitpic.com/4gk9u2





Gaz Manchester on FB said:


> I remember the real reasons I 1st started doin the EDL n was a part of the EDL n no1 can take that away but as I'm seein some top lads give it up after bein part of it from day 1 n bein replaced by inbredels n demo points turned into fundays miles away from any UAF or MDL just can't say this is for me anymore...
> 
> EDL is achieving nothing, loads of lads are packing it in because fuck alls happenin. Snowy's got the right idea with the flash demo's. Edl's not led by Tommy anymore its told what to do by the police. EDL have become a joke. Taking back our streets haha dont make me laugh you have to bend over and beg for permission to walk on them first!
> 
> .t's too late for that now every1's already split n it's gone in 2 completely different directions. am not gettin the same kicks i joined up for in the past because the days of stoke n dudley are long gone n there's no buzz there anymore. i carried on goin because of the lads i knew from other divsions but now they're all packin it in n it's all gone tits up



Courtesy of MAFA


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 3, 2011)

inbredels


----------



## manny-p (Apr 3, 2011)

Have to say I am enjoying this. Although I wonder what threat these new 'radical' splinter groups will bring?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 3, 2011)

It's funny as fuck, and none of them seem worried about the bomb in NI yesterday? why is that?


----------



## audiotech (Apr 3, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Have to say I am enjoying this. Although I wonder what threat these new 'radical' splinter groups will bring?



Indeed and perhaps more importantly what Yaxley-Lennon et al intend for the future of the EDL?

There's more here on the hooha.

http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/4311183147/blackburn-demo2011


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 3, 2011)




----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Courtesy of MAFA


 
Another rabble who know surrender (the Manchester former EDLers obviously, not the good folk of MAFA)


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2011)

Facebook EDL Chat have blocked all comments on their wall. They may know surrender, but the democratic instincts of the organisation look as ropey as ever. LOL.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> inbredels


 
Thank you. This wins my pun of the day award.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 4, 2011)

According to someone who claims they were in Blackburn, '40+ tooled up NF from Sunderland were amongst the EDL rally'? Yaxley-Lennon, aka 'Tommy Robinson' called them out, with the result being fights breaking out, both at the rally and later at the coach park. Rumours are running rife amongst some EDL'ers, with claims and counter claims. The 'Scottish Defence League' in particular are up in arms. It all sounds very, ahem, dodgy?


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 4, 2011)

audiotech said:


> According to someone who claims they were in Blackburn, '40+ tooled up NF from Sunderland were amongst the EDL rally'? Yaxley-Lennon, aka 'Tommy Robinson' called them out, with the result being fights breaking out, both at the rally and later at the coach park. Rumours are running rife amongst some EDL'ers, with claims and counter claims. The 'Scottish Defence League' in particular are up in arms. It all sounds very, ahem, dodgy?


 
Not sure that there are 40 tooled up NF nationally nevermind Sunderland


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 4, 2011)

^^^What you say, plus I think the good old NF have proscribed the EDL for being a "Jewish" front group.  Still, I'm sure the NF would welcome an influx of disaffected EDL-ers at some point.  If nothing else, their vital membership fees would add mightily to the drinking, er, campaign funds of the Frunt....if you thought the EDL were a right old shower, just take a look at the NF these days!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

There where not NF they where the NWI 

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/North-West-Infidels/152186131471829

And tommy called someone out in the crowd and he got a pasting in front of 2000 people. 

After the demo there was a big fight at the coaches.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....127833817266601.21471.108912969158686&ref=nf


----------



## BlackArab (Apr 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> skip to 10 mins in for the part where tommy fucks it up.




The video has been made private, any other links to it?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> The video has been made private, any other links to it?


----------



## BlackArab (Apr 4, 2011)

Cheers, I'm in Malta trying to explain to an English friend I'm staying with who the EDL are. He's struggling with the idea that they are taken seriously back home.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 4, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Not sure that there are 40 tooled up NF nationally nevermind Sunderland


 
They managed four people from across the North East at their last rally, I think emergent class based formation in Darlo has taken the wind out of their sails.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 4, 2011)

audiotech said:


> According to someone who claims they were in Blackburn, '40+ tooled up NF from Sunderland were amongst the EDL rally'? Yaxley-Lennon, aka 'Tommy Robinson' called them out, with the result being fights breaking out, both at the rally and later at the coach park. Rumours are running rife amongst some EDL'ers, with claims and counter claims. The 'Scottish Defence League' in particular are up in arms. It all sounds very, ahem, dodgy?



They are North west Infidels (NWI)

On being called traitors for their attack at Blackburn this is how they reply;



> traitors you the one being led by zionists and immigrants. Do you know the english have no say in the English defence league.



They may not be NF but the quote above is the default white nationalist (Nazi) position on EDL.

They have also received a solidarity message from the nazis/C18 wannabees expelled from the WDL last year.

The splits that are happening run along 2 main fault lines; A grudge about EDL leadership committing some kind of financial fraud and silencing all complaints from regional leaderships and a feeling that the demos are too tame and boring, unlike Stoke and Dudley, where they got to run riot.

I don't think the EDL is about to disintegrate because of this internal crisis. It will just give the main group a new enemy to focus on for a while. They need something like this as their demos are pure monotony. We may see a smaller more hardline version appear with the NWI but I can't see them lasting long.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




thanks


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

You know when a good boozer goes bad for some reason and everyone  moves down the road...


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 4, 2011)

They're going at it hammer and tongs. Comedy script writers take note.

http://twitpic.com/4g8td8

here's a sneak preview of what you'll find in this link. 

Gettin one bounced off is bonce the fuckin little farmer boy

Pikey prick

Ya ginger twat

They’re all grasses

Yas turfed the twats ova

Fuckin muggy cunt

Fuckin clinky mug

Donut dickhead

Class bro lets fuckin frog em

Fuckin fudgepacker


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 4, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> They are North west Infidels (NWI)
> 
> On being called traitors for their attack at Blackburn this is how they reply;
> 
> ...


 
Thank Christ for the old bill for making their demos monotonous.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2011)

How many _did_ Blackburn take to london?


----------



## CyberRose (Apr 4, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> a feeling that the demos are too tame and boring, unlike Stoke and Dudley, where they got to run riot.


They should go along to demos by the black bloc!...or maybe...


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

Next demo you ask?

Deeside North Wales... 

21st May


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Next demo you ask?
> 
> Deeside North Wales...


 
When?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

ninja edit

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=214803255201755&ref=mf


----------



## Fingers (Apr 4, 2011)

Deeside of all places.  The county has just under 100 Muslims.  The North West and North East Infidels have stated their intention to attend. It is going to be a MASSIVE fight!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 4, 2011)

Honestly, why can't the Saes keep their filthy bigotry out of Wales?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 4, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Deeside of all places.  The county has just under 100 Muslims.  The North West and North East Infidels have stated their intention to attend. It is going to be a MASSIVE fight!


 
Deeside isn't a county. It's in Flintshire.

It is because the local Islamic Assoc want a mosque - they had agreed to purchase a social club which mysteriously burnt down a few days after their last demo in Shotton.

Deeside is technically in Wales but over the last few decades has become commuter belt for Chester & Merseyside - the EDL noticeably organise as the EDL there, not the WDL or CDL.


----------



## Fingers (Apr 4, 2011)

Ah thanks for that, I got a bit confused from when they changed the county names around there. It used to be Clwyd didn't it?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 4, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Ah thanks for that, I got a bit confused from when they changed the county names around there. It used to be Clwyd didn't it?


 
Aye, now Clwyd is Flintshire, Denbighshire and Wrexham County Borough.

You are right though, the muslim population across NE Wales is tiny.


----------



## skitr (Apr 4, 2011)

All I can say is wow.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

They are now calling it Un offical at the moment... lol


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/4gys5p


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/4gys5p


 
lol


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

And Tommys account is offline at the moment.... unless he deleted me


----------



## emanymton (Apr 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/4gys5p


 


> Sweet Blackburn was gd we broke out and n ran em all over



Emmm, I think not.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

*whoops twice post did i*


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 4, 2011)

Should be a counter-demo in Deeside, keep an eye on this page for details:

http://www.facebook.com/UnitedWrexham


----------



## ddraig (Apr 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/4gys5p


 
almost as bad as the sports forum on here!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 4, 2011)

if you have 10 mins to waste and i mean waste


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 5, 2011)

Tx for the links Bob.

Leadership have announced they will produce a statement, presumably about Saturday and related events.

I anticipate they will claim that nazis and the like have been purged, but the organisation draws on nationalism almost as much as anti-islamic sentiments, so there will always be an inherent contradiction between their professed voidance of racism and nazism and the tendencies they attract. Whatever else might be said of them, the EDL have provided an initiation into far right politics for a significant minority, which is a shame. But will it get much further?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 5, 2011)




----------



## manny-p (Apr 5, 2011)

Cheers Bob


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 5, 2011)

Watching this now... .


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 5, 2011)

Apols if this has been posted already. "Muslamic Ray Guns" has been remixed.
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU&feature=player_embedded[/video]


----------



## manny-p (Apr 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Watching this now... .




What did you think of this?


----------



## manny-p (Apr 5, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Apols if this has been posted already. "Muslamic Ray Guns" has been remixed.
> [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIPD8qHhtVU&feature=player_embedded[/video]


 
Yeah that is old news nino. This remix done by alexvegas is quite good aswell(about a guy running about in an empty metro train)-


----------



## Fingers (Apr 5, 2011)

Eighteen minutes of sob story about how how dangerous his life is because he is racist.  To be fair, if he really is having a purge on racists and nazis fair play to him, I suspect that by the time he has got rid of all of them there won't be many members left.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 5, 2011)

His body langaue is soooo telling, arms crossed never looking at the camera.

And just crys about how hard is life is because he hates Muslims and he never asked to be leader but is happy for the rest of the guys who want to go out and do extreme stuff?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 5, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Eighteen minutes of sob story about how how dangerous his life is because he is racist.  To be fair, if he really is having a purge on racists and nazis fair play to him, I suspect that by the time he has got rid of all of them there won't be many members left.


 
That would include him as he kept slipping up and calling Muslims pakis in the newsnight report so the reporter said.


----------



## Fingers (Apr 5, 2011)

Plus he would have had to get rid of Kermit and Roberta Moore (who is the biggest racist out of the lot)


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 5, 2011)

true... see the shit the posted on the JDL the other day about UN staff? fucking shocking.


----------



## Fingers (Apr 5, 2011)

Yup. Also this split is looking like it could be more dangerous. Looking at the various Infidels web pages they seemed to have held back on full on 'paki bashing' sessions until now and seem to think the EDL are not hardcore enough for them.  Many calls for street war etc.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 5, 2011)

The NWI guys will troll the fuck out of the EDL also, they did most of the online facebook shit.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 5, 2011)

Meanwhile, in Halifax.


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 5, 2011)

UAF meeting disturbed in Brighton?

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=7953


----------



## Das Uberdog (Apr 6, 2011)

socialist unity reports a uaf meeting was attacked in Brighton

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=7953


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 6, 2011)

Jesus the UAF have actually reported it on their website too!


----------



## audiotech (Apr 6, 2011)

allybaba said:


> What did you think of this?



Attention seeker.


----------



## Dhimmi (Apr 6, 2011)

It'd be interesting to see some consistancy which didn't include an element of self-loathing. Elsewhere on here acts of murder by one religious group is blamed on another religious group, but this "political" group (born of the actions of a minority of a religious group) is held to blame for everything. Mud slinging is fun but that's all it is, but when it comes to gaining popular support for slinging mud the EDL are winning the game, and all that nonsense about "becoming your enemy to defeat them" or even the ridiculous "fight fire with fire" isn't working and won't work. The key is not to be seen to stick up for the percieved enemy, and defining a group as a much hated & long dead enemy which none of us fought against won't work, no matter how delightful and righteous that might make us feel. Action needs to be taken to address the actual drama we face, not relegate it to a simplistic melodrama fought by web warriors.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 6, 2011)

yeah


so anyway


----------



## manny-p (Apr 6, 2011)

Dhimmi said:


> It'd be interesting to see some consistancy which didn't include an element of self-loathing. Elsewhere on here acts of murder by one religious group is blamed on another religious group, but this "political" group (born of the actions of a minority of a religious group) is held to blame for everything. Mud slinging is fun but that's all it is, but when it comes to gaining popular support for slinging mud the EDL are winning the game, and all that nonsense about "becoming your enemy to defeat them" or even the ridiculous "fight fire with fire" isn't working and won't work. The key is not to be seen to stick up for the percieved enemy, and defining a group as a much hated & long dead enemy which none of us fought against won't work, no matter how delightful and righteous that might make us feel. *Action needs to be taken to address the actual drama we face, not relegate it to a simplistic melodrama fought by web warriors*.


 
Eh? Can you explain what you mean in laymans terms cos I didn't get what you meant. Ta.


----------



## The Black Hand (Apr 6, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> socialist unity reports a uaf meeting was attacked in Brighton
> 
> http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=7953


 


Red Storm said:


> Jesus the UAF have actually reported it on their website too!


 
Storm clouds are gathering?


----------



## PlaidDragon (Apr 6, 2011)

This has to be the best thing I've ever seen. Someone on the EDL page put this comment in reply to the 'Muslamic Ray Guns' video someone had posted up:

'Camo Kev Saxon Not really into this electronic rap music shite but agree with the sentiments completely. Nice one pal
We Want Britain To Be Back British. This should get to number one not that bilge the youth of today listen to
6 minutes ago'


----------



## manny-p (Apr 6, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> This has to be the best thing I've ever seen. Someone on the EDL page put this comment in reply to the 'Muslamic Ray Guns' video someone had posted up:
> 
> 'Camo Kev Saxon Not really into this electronic rap music shite but agree with the sentiments completely. Nice one pal
> We Want Britain To Be Back British. This should get to number one not that bilge the youth of today listen to
> 6 minutes ago'


 
I suspect thats a lefty on a wind up.


----------



## manny-p (Apr 6, 2011)

From the North West Infidels Facebook page.


> Easter is comin and tommys getin fat,
> Please buy a hoodie off the crafty luton twat.
> If you don't buy a hoodie then a pin badge will do,
> And if you don't buy a pin badge they'll release a youtube video of you.
> ...


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 6, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/pages/UAF-Hunting-Club/211740688841655?sk=wall

UAF Headhunters! Terrifying.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Apr 6, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I suspect thats a lefty on a wind up.


 
Looking at his profile, if it is, he's done the job properly!


----------



## audiotech (Apr 6, 2011)

'An attack at the Redbridge Islamic Centre last week has left the members shocked and fearful.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/06/hideously-diverse-britain-attack-mosque


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 6, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I suspect thats a lefty on a wind up.


 
LOL. The guy who made that tune hangs out on a certain FB page, he will piss himself.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 6, 2011)

audiotech said:


> 'An attack at the Redbridge Islamic Centre last week has left the members shocked and fearful.'
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/06/hideously-diverse-britain-attack-mosque



Now that the unity is fractured perhaps autonomous fascist/nazi actions like this will become more common, a huge problem, harder to predict. Let us hope and / or pray that EDL and SYL dont end up with serious blood on their hands. At best they have appeased fascists and nazis. More generally they have consorted with them and facilitated fascist/nazi demonstrators, recruitment etc. By their own proclaimed standards the EDL are a traitor's front. Their organisers, dupes and apologists ought to be accountable and deemed culpable, but they are of course generally too dim to realise what they have done and why they fucked up (if they weren't fascists or nazis in the first place)

Blackburn is a watershed moment, easy to see as generally bad for the EDL but not neccessarily bad for the far right, EDL have provided recruitment and initiation to the far right and they have been incredibly malign even if they now start to slide a bit.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 6, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I suspect thats a lefty on a wind up.


 
Yeah could be actually.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 6, 2011)

NWI FB page is interesting reading at the mo. They are stating out their positions and how they intend to operate. Amidst this they are getting into rows with EDL loyalists and southerners. NWI could well be more effective hereonin than EDL if they bring the numbers over. But they appear to be more openly racist and how that plays out is hard to tell. in the end though, EDL has become a victim of trying to deal with the contradiction of saying they were non racist while there was a permanent acceptance, at best,  on a nudge-wink basis, further they have to accept that their professed nationalism provides a breeding ground for racism.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 6, 2011)

Already got banned from the NWI page lol


----------



## gawkrodger (Apr 6, 2011)

what's the address for it?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 6, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/North-West-Infidels/152186131471829


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 7, 2011)

taffyboy - the NWI's/"separatist-EDL"'s  stance/professed actions is not to be taken lightly, for sure.  However, I'd say that this is a case of the mask of the EDL slipping to reveal what many peeps (such as the Urbanites, natch) have suspected all along on the racism front.  The cat looks to be very much out of the bag here, and I guess it's up to us who are aware of this to put up the fight.  How do we do this?  I have no easy answers, but if anti-racism/fascism has to get militant again, then so be it. And it goes without saying that Asians, as always, will not stand to be willing victims to any actions by the EDL/NWI etc persons.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2011)

Moar  for the EDL, as per...

Dead Blackburn nana's picture used on EDL placards without permission


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 7, 2011)

posted this on the EDL wall, got removed and banned....

again  

I also posted about the Bomb in NI on the weekend, nobody gave a toss.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 7, 2011)

http://www.dudleynews.co.uk/news/8960254.EDL_protestor_jailed_for_kicking_police_officer/

Good ^


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.dudleynews.co.uk/news/8960254.EDL_protestor_jailed_for_kicking_police_officer/
> 
> Good ^



The Twat got a year for taking a flying kick at a cop. Lucky for him it wasn't a left wing demo.

As for the debate whether an EDL'er on FB who says he likes the Muslamic ray Guns song is anti EDL. Forget it. They are so thick they actually like the tune and hum it and have- T-shirts based on it. Nothing about them is rational. They just don't understan nuffink...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2011)

Robinson's own flying kick charges were dropped. Hmmm.


----------



## Edie (Apr 7, 2011)

Anyone else involved in the EDL facebook wars? I've got a couple of mates who are involved in the MDL, and there's been this big kick off round Dewsbury/ Bradford between EDlers posting shit on mates of mates walls and vice versa then big slagging matches. It's made facefuck more interesting, though maybe it's just between a limited group of people after India won the cricket and there was lots of celebrating/ commiserating in Bradford which seemed to piss the EDL off.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2011)

Burning issues.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 7, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Robinson's own flying kick charges were dropped. Hmmm.



Indeed.  And what happened to those money laundering and mortgage fraud charges that were pending?  Questions methinks for the EDL Special Branch Division to answer...


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2011)

Edie said:


> Anyone else involved in the EDL facebook wars? I've got a couple of mates who are involved in the MDL, and there's been this big kick off round Dewsbury/ Bradford between EDlers posting shit on mates of mates walls and vice versa then big slagging matches. It's made facefuck more interesting, though maybe it's just between a limited group of people after India won the cricket and there was lots of celebrating/ commiserating in Bradford which seemed to piss the EDL off.


 
Not presonally, but a few of my FB friends have joined the EDL page on FB to troll.....


----------



## audiotech (Apr 7, 2011)

I see the EDL in Blackburn used the death of a families loved one at their demonstration last week and didn't have the common decency to contact the family first to make sure they didn't upset them. Absolute gutter politics.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...victim_s_family_condemn_EDL_use_of_her_photo/


----------



## Fingers (Apr 7, 2011)

The daft twats have just announced their next national demo.... Blackpool...  FA Cup final day.... fail!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 7, 2011)

Shit day in work, this cheered me up no end


----------



## manny-p (Apr 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Shit day in work, this cheered me up no end




I doubt the asian lad was MDL as they claim. Probably just an easy 'ethnic' target for them trying to get the train home.


----------



## where to (Apr 7, 2011)

Fingers said:


> The daft twats have just announced their next national demo.... Blackpool...  FA Cup final day.... fail!



not really


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 7, 2011)

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/05/452328.html

This Indymedia piece claims that Alan Lake has been out to play a little more in cyberspace recently. As the moneybags and 'brains' behind the EDL I really thought he would be more together than this (assuming it is him): frothing on about executing liberals and such like. at least the teenage race-war wank fantasists of the EDL are, well, teenagers. This twat never grew up.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 7, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I doubt the asian lad was MDL as they claim. Probably just an easy 'ethnic' target for them trying to get the train home.


 
The MDL are small fry really AKAIK, it's far more a reality in the fevered paranoid minds of the EDLers, same as how anyone who doesn't like them is construed as UAF.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The MDL are small fry really AKAIK, it's far more a reality in the fevered paranoid minds of the EDLers, same as how anyone who doesn't like them is construed as UAF.


 
This all fucking pathetic though. I said this to him and he said this to me.


----------



## manny-p (Apr 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This all fucking pathetic though. I said this to him and he said this to me.


 
What do you mean comrade?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 8, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0103myc/Russell_Howards_Good_News_Series_4_Episode_3/

Watch the first 10 mins 

Fucking ace


----------



## revlon (Apr 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0103myc/Russell_Howards_Good_News_Series_4_Episode_3/
> 
> Watch the first 10 mins
> 
> Fucking ace


 
hmm, all these still come across as privileged posh lads having a go as the uneducated, lidl shopping, tracksuit wearing working class scum. Take out the _FASCIST!!_ shoutiness and you have good old fashioned class snobbery.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 8, 2011)

If you can't take this piss out of violent racist pricks then what else is there to do?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 8, 2011)

Bob, have you learned nothing?

Critique of the EDL must be entirely based on theory with solid class analysis to back it up. The fact that the EDL couldn't theorise their way out of a paper bag is neither here nor there. The fact that their poor English skills render it nigh on impossible to debate with, doesn't detract from the fact that if you scorn thick racists then YOU are just as much to blame in the eyes of some of the self appointed judges of what does and doesn't make valid argument. 

I cant stand the class snobbery, I cant stand the inverse tendency that being educated and / or reasonably employed means having to look over your shoulder the whole time for someone finger wagging you for being 'middle class'. The EDL are generally thick racists regardless of their class, as dupes for fascism they are ultimately class enemies anyhow in the lexicon of the left.  

If humourless analysis and thought policery of the critics of fascism had proved a success in keeping the far right at bay I might be more given to them as strategies.

There were, in fact, lots of ignorant middle class and working class people who thought, without looking too deeply, that the EDL might 'have a point'. That has been exposed and washed away now, by the EDL's own violence, hatred and stupidity. Little to do with class or the left in the end (thought the anti cuts demo showed them what a real street movement is about).


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 8, 2011)

I'm not classist, some of my mates know people who wear tracksuits.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 8, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/notes/engli...-rip-the-edl-apart-you-decide/202880436400755





> Today the media department of the English Defence League has been shown certain pictures by the sun newspaper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 8, 2011)

I like this bit



> Well you can decide what are the intentions of these groups but rest assured people can keep trying to stitch Tommy up and blackmail him but he is going nowhere and neither is the EDL.





If your morbid curiosity is up for it then there's a picture of the EDL and NWI fighting each other by the coaches up on the MDL FB. Kind of goes with the above quote

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?i...127833817266601.21471.108912969158686&theater


----------



## cantsin (Apr 8, 2011)

"They ensured a photo was taken in this way to enable them to blackmail Tommy moving forward. Clearly had Tommy been taking drugs the person responsible for the stitch up would have obtained a picture of him with a note up his nose? " 

yeah right -  it doesnt matter if your you're Tommy Robsinson or not, you're not going to let anyone take a photo of you mid-nose up, and with it being night/flash obligatory, there's no way it would have been possible on the sly, so this bit is complete bullshit.


----------



## IC3D (Apr 8, 2011)

In fairness the guy who took the pick is more of a cunt the TR IMO


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 8, 2011)

From the NWI page... 



> British Loyalist
> I would like to welcome our friends from urban75 forums who keep coming onto this page with malice intent. Also from U75 " The cat looks to be very much out of the bag here, and I guess it's up to us who are aware of this to put up the fight. How do we do this? I have no easy answers, but if anti-racism/fascism has to get militant aga...in, then so be it." I bet everyone is terrified that these cretins might get 'militant' again. You're not Red Action anymore ladies.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Apr 9, 2011)

Fuck them. Last Saturday a very young MAFA squad in Manchester faced down and took first prize against four 30 something EDL scummers.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 9, 2011)

Ha ha ha ha ha,  I get quoted by NWI!  Hilarious central.  Well, if you're reading this, "lads", you're welcome to come down to Clapham to throw your lardy weight around.  Don't be surprised if the, ahem, "Aryan" masses decide to slap you all over the shop as a thank you.  And don't worry darlings, I'll be there to blow you a kiss or two.  What next, you gonna call out the gluesniffers of Combat 18 to defend you anti-Muslamic honour?  In short, get back to your Blood and Honour wank mags, losers.

Anyroad, to all Urbans  -move along here, nowt to see, you're all doing fine work


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 9, 2011)

yeah and Cardiff welcomes you back with open arms,  

pop down anytime you like i'm sure it will all go as well as last June when 150 of you and the fat cunt Marshy got laughed out of the city by 1000+ people


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 9, 2011)

BOB2009 - I like your style - this is what the kids want, after all   Funnily enough, I had an encounter this very evening in Clarm-land with a propa Inglish woomun who was, like, not liekin the Muslamics and Chinese.  I gave her the benefit of my wit and wisdom and she slapped me on the face with...a bunch of flowers.  It was like being bashed over the bonce with Morrisey's gladioli!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 9, 2011)

Fuck em, I know more people that laugh at them than agree with them,.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

More laughable shite from Spiked. Wtf is it with these apologetic tossers?


> An interview with a young member of the UK-based protest movement, the English Defence League (EDL), is currently spreading like wildfire online. It’s not difficult to see why: for many lefties, this single interview confirms every prejudice they have about the inarticulate, confused primitives that make up the EDL – and the white working classes as a whole.
> http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10375/



The author misses the point - it's funny and it shows how thick these EDL bastards are. As the article goes on, the author gets into a real tangle.  LM: they don't know what they want.


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

he's bang on the money with this bit here however 



> It is nothing less than confirmation of their political and cosmopolitan superiority over the uneducated, provincial lower orders.



sums up lefty to a tee (and a big proportion of posters here, nino_savatte, littlebabyjesus, violentpanda all spring to mind)


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 9, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Moar  for the EDL, as per...
> 
> Dead Blackburn nana's picture used on EDL placards without permission


 


audiotech said:


> I see the EDL in Blackburn used the death of a families loved one at their demonstration last week and didn't have the common decency to contact the family first to make sure they didn't upset them. Absolute gutter politics.
> 
> http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...victim_s_family_condemn_EDL_use_of_her_photo/


 
People should read threads


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

love detective said:


> he's bang on the money with this bit here however
> 
> 
> 
> sums up lefty to a tee (and a big proportion of posters here, nino_savatte, littlebabyjesus, violentpanda all spring to mind)



Laughable and you can't even use the plural form - which makes it more laughable.


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

QED


----------



## TopCat (Apr 9, 2011)

You did just attack him for his syntax and grammar didn't you? Where did you learn so well?


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

<shrugs> So what? I learned grammar in school. 

<sits back and waits for the usual presumptuous comments>


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

he couldn't even get a smug syntax/grammatical attack correct - lefty is common parlance (for me anyway) for a collective group of lefties


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

Nice try at digging yourself out of a hole but it's still laughable.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

Do you hug EDL members, detective?


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

> Nice try at digging yourself out of a hole but it's still laughable.



yeah what a massive hole i'm in - you've really caught the crux of the issue here


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Do you hug EDL members, detective?


 
binary logic at its worst - thick cunt


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

Keep 'em coming.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

love detective said:


> binary logic at its worst - thick cunt


 
Oh, so you understand what a binary is then? You've even added the the words "thick cunt" too. What a clever fellow you are.


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

_It is nothing less than confirmation of their political and cosmopolitan superiority over the uneducated, provincial lower orders_


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

You keep repeating that line from the RCP article as though it was holy writ. Thanks for derailing the thread.


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

you're the one who started derailing when you decided to harp  on about the syntax/grammar of a comment - no attempt to even address the point posited within it - wee bit too close to home for comfort eh


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 9, 2011)

love detective said:


> _It is nothing less than confirmation of their political and cosmopolitan superiority over the uneducated, provincial lower orders_


 
Ill fitting suits???


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

in italics


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

love detective said:


> you're the one who started derailing when you decided to harp  on about the syntax/grammar of a comment - no attempt to even address the point posited within it - wee bit too close to home for comfort eh



Wrong. You made some cheap comment about certain posters. 



> sums up lefty to a tee (and a big proportion of posters here, nino_savatte, littlebabyjesus, violentpanda all spring to mind)



Try taking responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming others.


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

if the cap fits nino


----------



## manny-p (Apr 9, 2011)

love detective said:


> if the cap fits nino


 
Are you Charlie Vietch?


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

Tell me, love detective, what has LM/RCP/Spiked/IoI done for this country's working class? I'll tell you - it was bugger all. You do realise that the RCP adopted the same stance as the Thatcher government did towards apartheid-era South Africa? It's also a little rich for some middle class RCP twat to write that stuff about what he calls "middle class left liberals". In fact, anyone who doesn't agree with LM's drivel is a "left liberal". Like Sainsbury's vodka, it's cheap, nasty stuff.


----------



## cantsin (Apr 9, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Nice try at digging yourself out of a hole but it's still laughable.


 


 if you/others  can't see why internet lefties laughing at everything from  Muslamic Rayguns to 'laughable syntax' (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) is an issue / off putting to some on here / playing into the hands of the oppo to a greater or less degree, then you're maybe not quite as bright as your syntactical expertise makes you think. 

that's not to say I didnt I laugh at that wacked out EDL goon, or didnt enjoy the fact the link got passed around my office, but I'm also aware of the trap it's easy for EDL opponents to fall into by focusing on this stuff instead of the politics involved. Accusing people like Love Det. of wanting 'to hug the EDL'  just suggests you're either missing the point massively. or totally blinded by your own class prejudice.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

cantsin said:


> using bad syntax is "laughable" ?


 
No, cherry picking a quote from a Spiked article in order to have a pop at a few posters you don't like is feeble.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 9, 2011)

love detective said:


> he's bang on the money with this bit here however
> 
> 
> 
> sums up lefty to a tee (and a big proportion of posters here, nino_savatte, littlebabyjesus, violentpanda all spring to mind)


 
Absolutely. its almost a constant bray against a lack of having a degree and having the temerity to have right wing views.. I would like to see some of the posters on here actually argue their politics down a normal pub with anyone who says they suppot the BNP or EDL, they wouldn't get away with  telling them that they are all thick knuckdraggers and imaging that would be the end of it mainly because like us they have come to a view by thinking and discussing it.

  Can't be that thick to a) outflank the BNP  b) to organise over a years worth of demos with attendances larger than UAF and c) their ability to organise , unlike any other group outside the labour party hasn't been hit by 'auto labourism'.

One of the things that I have learnt from over thirty years of political activity is that whether or not we like it you can learn from the far right.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

cantsin said:


> if you/others  can't see why internet lefties laughing at everything from  Muslamic Rayguns to 'laughable syntax' (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) is an issue / off putting to some on here / playing into the hands of the oppo to a greater or less degree, then you're maybe not quite as bright as your syntactical expertise makes you think.
> 
> that's not to say I didnt I laugh at that wacked out EDL goon, or didnt enjoy the fact the link got passed around my office, but I'm also aware of the trap it's easy for EDL opponents to fall into by focusing on this stuff instead of the politics involved. Accusing people like Love Det. of wanting 'to hug the EDL'  just suggests you're either missing the point massively. or totally blinded by your own class prejudice.



But you, yourself, laughed at it. Isn't that hypocritical of you? 

But it is presumptuous to claim that I am "totally blinded by [your] my own class prejudice". Do you actually know me? I don't know you.

Btw, I think a lot of people without degrees can work out that the EDL goon in the video is thick. It isn't rocket science.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 9, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> Fuck them. Last Saturday a very young MAFA squad in Manchester faced down and took first prize against four 30 something EDL scummers.


 
Manchester AFA  LOL.  Its a bit like Stars in Their Eyes.


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

nino_savatte said:
			
		

> Tell me, love detective, what has LM/RCP/Spiked/IoI done for this country's working class? I'll tell you - it was bugger all. You do realise that the RCP adopted the same stance as the Thatcher government did towards apartheid-era South Africa? It's also a little rich for some middle class RCP twat to write that stuff about what he calls "middle class left liberals". In fact, anyone who doesn't agree with LM's drivel is a "left liberal". Like Sainsbury's vodka, it's blah blah blah blah zzzzzzzz.............



And once again, binary logic is the only type capable of being employed (although associating the above effort with the application of any logic whatsoever is probably being a tad too generous)

Your statement is ridiculous - for example I don't think the BNP has ever done or offered anything for this country's working class, but holding that position doesn't mean I can't agree with this for example....



> Labour are desperately trying to blame the ConDem government for cuts. The truth is that all three of the old parties are to blame for the attack on the poor, the sick and the public services which nearly all of us rely on. "All the same and all to blame"



....a random quote taken from a recent article on the BNP website

i.e. just because you find yourself agreeing with the sentiments expressed in a particular place or article by a particular group - it doesn't mean you subscribe to, or have to defend, the whole world view, outlook and objectives of that organisation in order to justify your agreement with the particular sentiment expressed  

It is indeed, as you say, not rocket science


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 9, 2011)

> Your statement is ridiculous - for example I don't think the BNP has ever done or offered anything for this country's working class, but holding that position doesn't mean I can't agree with this for example....



Where did I mention the BNP? Your eyes are deceiving you. And you have the cheek to accuse me of binary logic? Get real, son/daughter.

You're being argumentative and abusive for the sake of it. I'm sorry, if you've had a tough day,friend. But it's nothing to do with me.


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

where did I mention any kind of support for Spiked/RCP savatte?

You're surely not so thick as you can't understand the concept of drawing a parallel to demonstrate how fuckwitted a poster's 'point' is?


----------



## audiotech (Apr 9, 2011)

It appears you believe the BNP are being sincere about the poor? How remarkably naive of you.


----------



## love detective (Apr 9, 2011)

of course i don't (and if you'd actually read my post you would see that I make it clear that i don't)

the point is you can agree with something that someone has said without agreeing with their outlook/worldview/reasons for saying it - it's perfectly legitimate to detach/separate out the factual point being made from the underlying politics of the organisation/person making it

Do you think the factual content of the BNP quote is incorrect? of course you don't - so to put forward the case that someone is naive for agreeing with it is bonkers bruno

And to rubbish the organisation to dismiss the relevance/appropriateness of a particular point being made just because it's a rather revealing one about your own prejudices is a somewhat piss poor retort, see savatte (2011)


----------



## audiotech (Apr 9, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Absolutely. its almost a constant bray against a lack of having a degree and having the temerity to have right wing views.. I would like to see some of the posters on here actually argue their politics down a normal pub with anyone who says they suppot the BNP or EDL, they wouldn't get away with  telling them that they are all thick knuckdraggers and imaging that would be the end of it mainly because like us they have come to a view by thinking and discussing it.
> 
> Can't be that thick to a) outflank the BNP  b) to organise over a years worth of demos with attendances larger than UAF and c) their ability to organise , unlike any other group outside the labour party hasn't been hit by 'auto labourism'.
> 
> One of the things that I have learnt from over thirty years of political activity is that whether or not we like it you can learn from the far right.



Hmmm, what would be to learn? Attacking places of worship? Using pictures of dead children? Provoking fights? Using emotive language? Scapegoating? Scaremongering? The liberal use of profanities etc? But they are good organisers are they? With over 70,000 likes on facebook it's clear the bulk of their support is the opposite of organised.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 9, 2011)

love detective said:


> of course i don't (and if you'd actually read my post you would see that I make it clear that i don't)
> 
> the point is you can agree with something that someone has said without agreeing with their outlook/worldview/reasons for saying it - it's perfectly legitimate to detach/separate out the factual point being made from the underlying politics of the organisation/person making it
> 
> ...


 
I take your point (apart from the 'bonkers' bit ). I should have included the words 'if' and 'so'. Now calm down.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 9, 2011)

The EDL are currently kicking off about Halal Pork, so go figure.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 9, 2011)

Todays Demo in Dagenham.......


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 9, 2011)

fuk it


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The EDL are currently kicking off about Halal Pork, so go figure.
> 
> 
> http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/399/8460632875.jpg


 
I may be partially to blame for this 





			
				me on Hope not Hate's FB page said:
			
		

> Summat like: I wonder if you gave them some bacon butties and wrote halal on the wrapper would they eat them



And I know for a fact some people have been trolling the EDL boards and FB page....


----------



## Random (Apr 10, 2011)

Can someone update me on the EDL? I've not been following this at all? Have they kept on growing?


----------



## creak (Apr 10, 2011)

They do understand that halal is just the method of slaughter, it's not 'different' meat? Or is that what they're objecting to by calling for 'English' meat, i.e. slaughtered in the usual fashion rather than Halal?


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 10, 2011)

creak said:


> They do understand that halal is just the method of slaughter, it's not 'different' meat?


 
That's not the point, if you are bothered enough about being Muslim to be Halal, you are unlikely to go eat pork.


----------



## creak (Apr 10, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> That's not the point, if you are bothered enough about being Muslim to be Halal, you are unlikely to go eat pork.


 
Yeh I get that, but later on in the comments they're referring to meat in general- many seem to be under the impression that Halal is different to normal meat, as if it has other ingredients or additives in it, or comes from different species/animals(?!). Plus there's no understanding that meat can be both 'British' and 'Halal'; that they're not mutually exclusive. All the hatred built on what seem to be misunderstandings is quite saddening.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 10, 2011)

The good old British tradition of a bolt through the head. Makes me so proud.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 10, 2011)

audiotech said:


> The good old British tradition of a bolt through the head. Makes me so proud.


 
Even better when they run out of bolts they use old D Cell battries


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 10, 2011)

Random said:


> Can someone update me on the EDL? I've not been following this at all? Have they kept on growing?


 
Not especially. Media coverage has remained good in terms of number of interviews with SYL (local stations and quite a few in US and Oz). Generally he doesn't do very well in them, but that doesn't neccessarily matter to the undiscerning sympathiser.

In terms of numbers at demos it looks like there has been a mild recovery from a dip, good weather and the end of the footie season may help. But there is certainly no significant growth. The Luton turnout wasn't as big as it should have been for a long publicised 'homecomming', but the Blackburn demo was pretty well attended (though the events there will probably harm turnouts in the north hereonin)

There have been more actions not centrally organised, such as the halal protests, but they are often not greatly attended.

As always, the main ongoing activity seems to be the efforts of the Keyboard Warriors, endless paranoid hyperbole on facebook and woeful lack of respect for the basics of the English language. Trolling anti EDL sites is generally down since last saturdays blackburn fiasco, although they found common cause to launch an assault on a Russell Howard page after he put the boot on his show the other night.

Every day seems to bring another FB page linked to the EDL, they seem to confuse FB wibble with movement building, to the extent that SYL still quotes 'membership' numbers as being the amount of people who have clicked 'like' on the main page (disregarding the amount of multiple profiles, people who aint that interested, have lost interested or signed up just to have a go). The now infamous original viral 'muslamic rayguns' from the Luton demo has approaching 3 times as many views on Youtube as EDL have FB likes.

Main news is the split with NWI/NEI (SDL are in sympathy with these too it seems) You can read about that upthread, a very silly and humiliating sequence of events.


----------



## Random (Apr 10, 2011)

thanks for that, taffboy. There's a snarling english face on the front of the Swedish equivalent of Searchlight and they seem to have just discovered the EDL.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Even better when they run out of bolts they use old D Cell battries


 
I always wondered what happened to the batteries you put in the recycling thingy at the supermarket....


----------



## fiannanahalba (Apr 10, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Manchester AFA  LOL.  Its a bit like Stars in Their Eyes.


 
Well Matthew thats what i saw , haircuts and clothing, late 80s retro, chuck.


----------



## internetstalker (Apr 10, 2011)

Haven't read the thread, but I assume you've all seen this little Gem:


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Apr 10, 2011)

And predictably - someone has autotuned the fuck out of it.


----------



## rollinder (Apr 10, 2011)

creak said:


> Yeh I get that, but later on in the comments they're referring to meat in general- many seem to be under the impression that Halal is different to normal meat, as if it has other ingredients or additives in it, or comes from different species/animals(?!). Plus there's no understanding that meat can be both 'British' and 'Halal'; that they're not mutually exclusive. All the hatred built on what seem to be misunderstandings is quite saddening.


 
*is wondering just how confused they'll get when they discover Qorn burgers are marked Halal*


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 10, 2011)

OMFG !!!!  * Burns down Mosque *


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 10, 2011)

^^^ I did a proper audible LOL there.  Cue the moonpigs of the EDL in tears - "I can't fackin' believe it.  I bet fackin' pork scratchings are halal too!  No Salami!"


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 10, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Hmmm, what would be to learn? Attacking places of worship? Using pictures of dead children? Provoking fights? Using emotive language? Scapegoating? Scaremongering? The liberal use of profanities etc? But they are good organisers are they? With over 70,000 likes on facebook it's clear the bulk of their support is the opposite of organised.


 
Remarkable lack of insight for a person of your age


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 10, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> Well Matthew thats what i saw , haircuts and clothing, late 80s retro, chuck.


 
Guarding a climate change barbecue in Hulme ( vegan food available)


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 10, 2011)

Get's worse, they now are downloading copys of the Koran and deleting them 

when will the madness end? ( when they run out of digital copies i guess? )


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 10, 2011)

SDL protest in Edinburgh today quickly surrounded by OB and totalled perhaps 0.001% of the population.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 10, 2011)

I think there's a difference between playing into liberal "anti-fascist" prejudices (which i agree some people do do) and having a good laugh at these morons and im not going to made guilty for finding the muslamic ray gun video funny.


----------



## tar1984 (Apr 10, 2011)

SDL is comprised of cunts who must have been thrown at a wall at birth.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 10, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I think there's a difference between playing into liberal "anti-fascist" prejudices (which i agree some people do do) and having a good laugh at these morons and im not going to made guilty for finding the muslamic ray gun video funny.



Yep. The bloke is clearly at the bottom end of the EDL IQ chart, which really is saying something. I think it's acceptable to take the piss out of the level of general knowledge, spelling and articulacy on their FB walls as well to be honest, most of them come across as divs to say the least.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 10, 2011)

yep - halal pork ffs.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 10, 2011)

yeh, i agree some "anti-fascists" make me cringe with their hidden (and not so hidden) class prejudices and i've taken them up on it - but there's a danger of falling into a almost like a reverse political correctness and being way to precious about it. i'm not going to be made to feel like a cunt for finding a video funny.

not sure about spelling etc but if someone thinks "halal pork" exists, while being in an organisation that opposes islam (so they must have thought and reflected on those views at least to some extent) then they should expect people to laugh at them


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 10, 2011)

^^^Yep, sounds fine - some people are thick, bigoted twats regardless of class, social standing, economic position etc, and deserve the abuse that's coming to them.  The task for those against the EDL is to be able to engage with those rank and filers who feel frightened/unlistened to about the Islamic issue.  Like with the BNP, it's a long and diffcult gane that needs to be played - even if the EDL collapses over internal bickering, this subject ain't gonna go away anytime soon.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 10, 2011)

having said that i don't think that being stupid and being a fascist are necessarily the same thing.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 10, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/4jdykq

LOL are you on the list? if not, your doing it wrong


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 10, 2011)

> privet information


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/4jdykq
> 
> LOL are you on the list? if not, your doing it wrong



So, they needed to set up Troll Watch to catch the likes of;
Azhar Al'Mukthar Izbal. 

Troll Watch = EDL Angel's version of Baywatch


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 10, 2011)

why are "trolls" such a problem to them anyway?


----------



## tar1984 (Apr 10, 2011)

Good thing about urban is we adopt trolls


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 10, 2011)

They seek to slilence anyone who does not agree with them.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 10, 2011)

I'd love to Troll them with this but they'd probably get it tattoed on themselves.

we shall defend our prawn flavour Pringles, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight near the coaches, we shall fight at Asda, we shall fight each other in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the KFC; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated by halal pork, then our neo nazi sympathisers from beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the anonimty of Facebook, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the north west infidels, with all its muggy twats, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the edl.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Apr 11, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Guarding a climate change barbecue in Hulme ( vegan food available)



Yes but some of them are pure lentil.


----------



## embree (Apr 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/4jdykq
> 
> LOL are you on the list? if not, your doing it wrong


 
I like how they always have to make little heraldic badges for themselves every time they set up a new division/group/project.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> OMFG !!!!  * Burns down Mosque *


 
Should burn down the Pringles factory for those, they look minging :vomit:


----------



## shaman75 (Apr 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Get's worse, *they now are downloading copys of the Koran and deleting them*
> 
> when will the madness end? ( when they run out of digital copies i guess? )



hahahaha


----------



## flickerx (Apr 11, 2011)

There was a load of EDL people hanging around in a pub opposite the entrance to Liverpool St Station on Saturday evening.


----------



## London_Calling (Apr 11, 2011)

flickerx said:


> There was a load of EDL people hanging around in a pub opposite the entrance to Liverpool St Station on Saturday evening.


 
I saw them on the station concourse at about 6.00pm. Seemed more women that men at that point, mostly draped in flags or wearing EDL signature fleeces.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 11, 2011)

only £30 plus £5 P&P 

you can't put a price on a free ENGLAND you know.


----------



## London_Calling (Apr 11, 2011)

They all seemed to come from the 'Berkshire Division' which, it turns out, is protecting the Royal Wedding:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-English-Defence-League-Berkshire-Division/189787347717980


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 11, 2011)

http://www.hudson-ny.org/2030/english-defense-league-genuine-anti-islamist

Is the English Defense League a Genuine Anti-Islamist Force?


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.hudson-ny.org/2030/english-defense-league-genuine-anti-islamist
> 
> Is the English Defense League a Genuine Anti-Islamist Force Farce?


 
Corrected for you


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 11, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Apr 11, 2011)

Better then Eastenders, that's all im saying


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 11, 2011)

Re Hudson NY article - the report mentions the McIntyre prog on the Chelsea Headhunters - argh!  "Look at me whilst I get a crap tattoo and geezer up with the top boys!"


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Better then Eastenders, that's all im saying
> 
> 
> http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/401/6585545406.png



Perhaps the people that made some of those remixes have in them the spare time to make a few 'webisodes'....a bit like the Daz ads....


----------



## emanymton (Apr 11, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> yeh, i agree some "anti-fascists" make me cringe with their hidden (and not so hidden) class prejudices and i've taken them up on it - but there's a danger of falling into a almost like a reverse political correctness and being way to precious about it. i'm not going to be made to feel like a cunt for finding a video funny.
> 
> not sure about spelling etc but if someone thinks "halal pork" exists, while being in an organisation that opposes islam (so they must have thought and reflected on those views at least to some extent) then they should expect people to laugh at them


I tend to think those who say we shouldn't laugh at some of these idiots are the ones with a really negative view of the working class, as they must assume that this is what most of the working class are like.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 11, 2011)

http://www.thisishullandeastriding....nage-girl/article-2184621-detail/article.html

Another EDL nonce, this one from Hull and East Yorkshire English Defence League.

There asking people to delete him now....


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 11, 2011)

@ ema - yeah, to an extent, although there is some really nasty undertones to a bit of the of stuff on (for example) the expose board on facebook


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 11, 2011)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375654/France-burka-ban-Two-arrested-Paris-protest.html

EDL go like beat up women and stuff....


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 11, 2011)

Top EDL and Top ENA have it out over facebook.....


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 12, 2011)

I wonder what percentage of FB EDLers are actually trolls?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> @ ema - yeah, to an extent, although there is some really nasty undertones to a bit of the of stuff on (for example) the expose board on facebook



I'm a "member" of expose on FB, and yeah, all the "chav scum" stuff is a lot of old shite really, isn't it?  They should stick to playing the ball, and not the man, as it were.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 12, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> I'm a "member" of expose on FB, and yeah, all the "chav scum" stuff is a lot of old shite really, isn't it?  They should stick to playing the ball, and not the man, as it were.


 
yer so am i and yes it is.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 12, 2011)

stephen yaxley-lennon and alan lake, what a pair of chavs.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 12, 2011)

just seen a video of the mighty EDL beating up people at the burka demo yesterday..... nice


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> just seen a video of the mighty EDL beating up people at the burka demo yesterday..... nice


 
linky?


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 12, 2011)

i thought they were against violence against women


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 12, 2011)

Was on twitter, try this cant get on in work

http://bit.ly/fOVmk1


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 12, 2011)

Is it that one? How stupid can you get than filming yourself assaulting people and the police


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 12, 2011)

Cheers, 

yeah i love the fact the post stuff up like this on youtube... fuckin idiots


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 12, 2011)

http://www.demotix.com/news/655987/edl-attack-protestors-french-burka-ban-london

Some good pics here


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 12, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Apr 12, 2011)

Someone leaked Hel Gowers address on twitter yesterday..... they didnt like her shit list


----------



## Goose Six (Apr 12, 2011)

There is beef between Bill Baker and Hel Gower- this has been rumbling on for a few days.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 12, 2011)

Goose Six said:


> There is beef between Bill Baker and Hel Gower- this has been rumbling on for a few days.


 
They should just get a room.


----------



## Fingers (Apr 12, 2011)

Here is an embarrassing message exchange regarding the beef between Gower and Mental Roberta. It is better than Eastenders

http://twitpic.com/4k2sf8


----------



## TruXta (Apr 14, 2011)

I don't know if this has been brought up here before, but I thought it worth mentioning that a Norwegian Defence League (called just that, _in English_ )has recently gotten a lot of press back home for a totally botched demo they tried to set up in Oslo the other day. Apparently the cow leading this group of fetuses has been ousted by an EDL-backed group of neo-nazis.

Said demo gathered 10 - ten - people, the counter-demo gathered 1000.
http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/04/14/nyheter/ndl/edl/politikk/16194792/
http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/04/09/nyheter/innenriks/ndl/blitz/demonstrasjon/16128147/

Both in Norwegian, google translate it if you're curious.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 14, 2011)

I love how it's now politically incorrect to take the piss out of racists


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I love how it's now politically incorrect to take the piss out of racists



Yeah, you've gotta laugh. Wonder what the politically correct description of the EDL planned and failed attack in this video would be.


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 15, 2011)

That's a well fed pig right at the end


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 15, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/#!/English.Defence.League.EDL?sk=wall



> A message from our Squaddies in Afghanistan. Please not to burn the Koran as it is shown to the Afghanistan people and they are stirred up to riot against our troops out there. Their fight is hard enough without people giving the Taliban more propaganda to make Muslims attack our troops! As much as we want to burn the Koran it not doing our lads any good so please pass on the message. Keep the faith NO SURRENDER





> we all know what we do is right in our own minds but lets put ourselves in our lads shoes theyre using what we do as propoganda to make it harder for our lads burn the fucking thing and use it as toilet paper but plz for the forseable future dont post it on utube we better than that we are edl and support our troops from the home front


----------



## embree (Apr 15, 2011)

Sales of the Koran must be rocketing in the UK

I assume they're burning ones in arabic, given that translations aren't regarded as being the word of god


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 16, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yeah, you've gotta laugh. Wonder what the politically correct description of the EDL planned and failed attack in this video would be.




dunno but  at UAF


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 16, 2011)

intimidating HnH activists this morning


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 16, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> intimidating HnH activists this morning




Lol, love how he tries to chat up cameralass at first.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 16, 2011)

flash mob demo in Halifax. They had told the police that they were 'just meeting for a drink'. About 150 claimed as turnout, but unconfirmed reports of a death after someone was taken ill.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 16, 2011)

EDL Support Group:

Support group will be posting an update from the EDL leadership when its prepared and the facts have been established. There have been conflicting reports regarding the circumstances. His death is not connected to the Halifax demo as previously stated and our thoughts are with his family and friends.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 16, 2011)

That's two that have dide now this year at or after demos...


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 16, 2011)

Shitting on a book of hate. You couldn't make it up etc


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 16, 2011)

Talking of you couldnt make it up, they are not going to "Terrorise" Russlle Howard after he took the piss out of the EDL 

http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2011/04/16/defence-league-marshs-threat-to-top-comedian-howard/

Not bad for a "human rights organisation"


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 16, 2011)

Note that the attack in Grays today was on a smallish sect called the ahmadiyya. They are considered apostate by many orthodox muslims and have had followers killed by the taliban. They are moderate and peace loving. I have had the great pleasure of attending some of their events.

The EDL claim to only oppose fundementalism. This attack, including upturning a table - an infringement of the english traditions of free speech and religious expression, exposes again that the EDL are either 

1) Thick

and / or 

2) Liars

I am aware of course of the sensitivity felt by some liberal U75ers that it just will not do to call thick scumbags for what they are.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 16, 2011)

Seems the one that died was not at the demo, but died at home, heart attack ( Silent Bacon and Beer Jihad init )


----------



## cantsin (Apr 16, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Seems the one that died was not at the demo, but died at home, heart attack ( Silent Bacon and Beer Jihad init )


 
are you sure he wasnt shot by Muslamics like Kev C nearly was ? or attacked by them like that Priest, er, wasnt ?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 16, 2011)

Nah defo a bacon OD or something must be true was on facebook init


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 16, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-13107183


----------



## Corax (Apr 17, 2011)

If it wasn't for the counter-demos, would any of these wanky chantathons even make the news?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2011)

What news?


----------



## Corax (Apr 17, 2011)

Corax said:


> If it wasn't for the counter-demos, would any of these wanky chantathons even make the news?


 


butchersapron said:


> What news?


 


B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-13107183


.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 17, 2011)

Corax said:


> If it wasn't for the counter-demos, would any of these wanky chantathons even make the news?



The EDL were in Halifax last week pissed-up, with no counter demo and made the local news at least.

I could be wrong, but I suspect the EDL, or those attaching themselves to the EDL, are deliberately upping the tension in that area and rather than it being a 'counter-demo' it seems likely that it's Muslim youth living in Halifax reacting to events?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2011)

Corax said:


> .


 
What's that got to do with this pathetic facebook wank stuff?


----------



## Corax (Apr 17, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What's that got to do with this pathetic facebook wank stuff?


 
I have no idea WTF you're going on about.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2011)

You don't do you?


----------



## Corax (Apr 17, 2011)

Are you pissed?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 17, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Seems the one that died was not at the demo, but died at home, heart attack ( Silent Bacon and Beer Jihad init )



Too young to die, too fat and stupid to live.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 17, 2011)

"People are angry" lol


----------



## tar1984 (Apr 17, 2011)

its ok for you to sit behind your comfortable middle class computer screen and sneer  i just want my country back.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 17, 2011)

Fuck you, I'm upper class and posting from my iPhone in bed!!!!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

Corax said:


> If it wasn't for the counter-demos, would any of these wanky chantathons even make the news?


 
The counter demos are generally smaller, so there's not a convincing case that they wouldn't. Although there's debate had about the strategy of counter demos and how effective they might be, I think we should be slow to condemn people who don't think its a good idea for aggressive fascist twats acting like they own the place to be unopposed.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

tar1984 said:


> its ok for you to sit behind your comfortable middle class computer screen and sneer  i just want my country back.


 
Are you serious? Did you lose a whole country?


----------



## tar1984 (Apr 17, 2011)

i am deadly serious 

my country has lost its vital spirit and it seems no-one is capable of claiming it back


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What's that got to do with this pathetic facebook wank stuff?


 
Butcher's - you've made this kind of point before and I think it's fair to bring it up. The thing is that a vast amount of EDL discussion and organisation happens on FB. When SYL says they have 80,000-ish members he is referring to the amount of 'likes'. It is highly integral to how they function. Nearly every day brings a new page devoted to some aspect of so called patriotism linked to EDL type stuff. Between demos it is where they all hang out, sharing their cultural and historical insights into why the muslamics are a menace of virtually apocalyptic proportions, lefties are traitors and how we have to our open our eyes etc. So while it is understandably annoying that FB is mentioned so much on this thread, it is a thread about the EDL and FB figures very large in the EDL. So it's kind of unavoidable in that context. Sorry though.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

tar - could you articulate a little more what this vital spirit may be and perhaps what your own contribution towards it might be?


----------



## tar1984 (Apr 17, 2011)

i preferred it when england was for the english  it just seems like the culture is being diluted with this influx of outsiders


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

Well that's not a very specific cultural definition to be honest, and you haven't really said what you have done, or might do, to positively contribute towards this nebulous 'English' culture. Do you know what percentage of the population is 'outsiders'? It's actually pretty small. What kind of culture would get so easily diluted? I didn't lose a country (I am really as English as I am Welsh) I have problems with our culture and politics, but the influence of 'outsiders' is not on that list. By the way, I live on a council estate in a very diverse area (well former council before Labour abandoned council housing). I quite like the mix as it happens. The problems round here are very much economic and environmental, knacker all to do with the part of the world some of my neighbour's parents or grandparents may have lived in.


----------



## embree (Apr 17, 2011)

Yeah tar, what are you doing to contribute to English culture? Eh? Eh?


----------



## manny-p (Apr 17, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Note that the attack in Grays today was on a smallish sect called the ahmadiyya. They are considered apostate by many orthodox muslims and have had followers killed by the taliban. They are moderate and peace loving. *I have had the great pleasure of attending some of their events*.


 
Are you a revert yet?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 17, 2011)

tar1984 said:


> i am deadly serious
> 
> my country has lost its vital spirit and it seems no-one is capable of claiming it back


 
Move to the south coast of Spain?


----------



## skitr (Apr 17, 2011)

*


tar1984 said:



			i preferred it when england was for the english 

Click to expand...

*


tar1984 said:


> it just seems like the culture is being diluted with this influx of outsiders


 
I'm interested to know when this was.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 17, 2011)

tar1984 said:


> i preferred it when england was for the english  it just seems like the culture is being diluted with this influx of outsiders


 
What's your definition of "English" then?  Race?  Cultural identity?  Aesthetic feeling?


----------



## ddraig (Apr 17, 2011)

ffs he's scottish and taking the piss/trolling


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Are you a revert yet?


 
Nah. I have some fairly big theological differences with all kinds of orthodoxies. Thing is, if I have a disagreement with aspects of islam I discuss it with Muslims in a reasoned fashion. They have never been less than welcoming of the discussion and it's fine when we agree to disagree. There is, as the prophet said, no compulsion in religion. No one has ever called me racist or bigoted for this approach.

As a general strategy for ironing out differences with Islam, I think swaggering about abusing and intimidating people is low on the list of what will work. As a means of expressing vile bigotry such behaviours are quite high on the list.

One can thus conclude that the EDL are either vile bigots, not very savvy, or both.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 17, 2011)

tar1984 said:


> i preferred it when england was for the english  it just seems like the culture is being diluted with this influx of outsiders



The Normans have a lot to answer for.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

ddraig said:


> ffs he's scottish and taking the piss/trolling


 
I thought he might me ddraig, which is why my very first question was 'are you serious'? Fair play if he is trolling I suppose, there are plenty with such under qualified opinions who ain't.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 17, 2011)

ddraig said:


> ffs he's scottish and taking the piss/trolling


 
indeed, hes sound, i thought that it was a failry obvious wind up.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 17, 2011)

skitr said:


> *
> 
> I'm interested to know when this was.*


*

1065?*


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 17, 2011)

ddraig said:


> ffs he's scottish and taking the piss/trolling



He is?  Didn't know that.  You learn summat new everyday on Urban.

Scuse me while I wind my neck back in.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 17, 2011)

Edited out of existence


----------



## manny-p (Apr 17, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Nah. I have some fairly big theological differences with all kinds of orthodoxies. Thing is, if I have a disagreement with aspects of islam I discuss it with Muslims in a reasoned fashion. They have never been less than welcoming of the discussion and it's fine when we agree to disagree. There is, as the prophet said, no compulsion in religion. No one has ever called me racist or bigoted for this approach..


 
Why waste your time?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Why waste your time?


 
I reckon I'll be the judge of what wasting my time is ta 

Not that criticising people's harmless choice of conversation matter on a message board would be a waste of time


----------



## manny-p (Apr 17, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I reckon I'll be the judge of what wasting my time is ta
> 
> Not that criticising people's harmless choice of conversation matter on a message board would be a waste of time


 
Okay wishy washy liberal.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Okay wishy washy liberal.


 
Oooh...what's the charge sheet? Am I booked in for a show trial? I was just in another part of cyberspace berating 'clueless patronising liberals' on another faith related matter, but it is clear we must always be ready to purge and denounce the wishy washy within.


----------



## manny-p (Apr 17, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Oooh...what's the charge sheet? Am I booked in for a show trial? I was just in another part of cyberspace berating 'clueless patronising liberals' on another faith related matter, but it is clear we must always be ready to purge and denounce the wishy washy within.


 
My apologies what I said was out of order.


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 17, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> 1065?


 
Awash with fucking Vikings then.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 17, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> Awash with fucking Vikings then.


 
Hmmm, deffo BC if you're going to play it that way, didn't the Romans invade in about 4 Ad? Perhaps 6?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 17, 2011)

allybaba said:


> My apologies what I said was out of order.


 
Thanks, I'd say there was no need but I wouldnt know to if you hadn't said it. There aint enough 'hands up I was wrong' online, so it's a good example even if there was no need


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 18, 2011)

They are going to do a demo outside Russlle Howards gig, cos he took the piss..... lol


----------



## treelover (Apr 18, 2011)

sneering at them for having lots of protests is imo, silly, in fact it may be that this is giving them the momentum that they need to grow, the sects used to stand by this model of buildiing


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 18, 2011)

Cool story Bro,


They want to beat him up for calling them violent thugs on the TV box.


----------



## Fingers (Apr 18, 2011)

Oh dear



> Ex-soldier jailed for burning Koran in Carlisle
> 
> Andrew Ryan had stolen a copy of the holy book from the library
> Continue reading the main story
> ...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-13119241


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 18, 2011)

Yeah, they are going fucking tits about it. Flash demos all over the shop now i bet.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Apr 18, 2011)

Bob, you seem like a nice sort but I'm not sure constant monitoring of the EDL's facebook output is really the healthiest way to waste away the hours.


----------



## IC3D (Apr 18, 2011)

Going to jail for burning a book?


----------



## Fingers (Apr 18, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Going to jail for burning a book?



Well he stole it from a library and had a load of previous.  I believe he was already on bail for something else.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 18, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Bob, you seem like a nice sort but I'm not sure constant monitoring of the EDL's facebook output is really the healthiest way to waste away the hours.


 
What else should i be doing in work?


----------



## IC3D (Apr 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Well he stole it from a library and had a load of previous.  I believe he was already on bail for something else.


 
I can understand that then, problem I suppose is the Chaudry bunch don't have loads of previous when/if they go to court.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 18, 2011)

> Sentencing him at Carlisle Magistrates' Court, District Judge Gerald Chalk said: 'This is a case of theatrical bigotry. It was pre-planned by you as you stole the book deliberately. You went out to cause maximum publicity and to cause distress.'
> 
> He told Ryan that people were entitled to protest but not in the manner he chose. The court heard the defendant had six public order convictions between 2002 and 2010 including racial chanting at a football match and assault with intent to resist arrest.



He was posting about it on facebook about it before and after the event. Even said he was going to steal it.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 18, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Bob, you seem like a nice sort but I'm not sure constant monitoring of the EDL's facebook output is really the healthiest way to waste away the hours.


 
Its a full time hobby


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 18, 2011)

Keeps me off the streets shouting about brown people i guess?


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Apr 18, 2011)

I noticed a depressing amount of EDL graffiti on the sides of houses you can see from the train between Manchester and Stockport yesterday  - Hopefully only the work of a sole tosser.


----------



## JHE (Apr 18, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Going to jail for burning a book?


 
Not any old book, but the Holy Koran.  He wouldn't have been sent to prison for burning the Bible.


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 18, 2011)

I burnt some toast earlier


----------



## embree (Apr 18, 2011)

So, was it in English or Arabic? Because Muslims don't consider translations to be the true word of god


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 18, 2011)

I'm sure it's more about his prevoius and him shouting in town loads of racist shit and burning a book he stole... 

I'm sure if he just burnt one out the back yard he wouldnt be inside now.


----------



## Corax (Apr 18, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> I burnt some toast earlier


 
I accidentally burnt some Qu'orn, which got me a bit worried.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 18, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Bob, you seem like a nice sort but I'm not sure constant monitoring of the EDL's facebook output is really the healthiest way to waste away the hours.


 


B0B2oo9 said:


> What else should i be doing in work?


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 18, 2011)

King Biscuit Time said:


> I noticed a depressing amount of EDL graffiti on the sides of houses you can see from the train between Manchester and Stockport yesterday  - Hopefully only the work of a sole tosser.


 
There is a quite active EDL group  from Reddish/Lancashire Hill, Leon Mc's lot.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 19, 2011)

JHE said:


> Not any old book, but the Holy Koran.  He wouldn't have been sent to prison for burning the Bible.


 
He might have if he had stolen it while on probation with a load of previous and deliberately said he was going to do it all over facebook on top of being a generally aggressive twat.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 19, 2011)

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/royal_wedding_to_be_protected_by_edl_ring_of_steel_1_2608969

Royal wedding to be ‘protected by EDL ring of steel


----------



## audiotech (Apr 19, 2011)

'Mr Yaxley-Lennon said he would not be in London himself on April 29 as he will be away on holiday'. How convenient.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 19, 2011)

^^^LOL at Tango Tommy - "We're gonna protect the Royals, 'cos it's our patriotic duty...I'm ain't cancelling my holiday to protect 'em though!".

e2a:  Damn, audiotech beat me to it!


----------



## veracity (Apr 19, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> There is a quite active EDL group  from Reddish/Lancashire Hill, Leon Mc's lot.


Aye sadly I have been noticing quite a lot of people wearing EDL branded gear round Stockport recently.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 19, 2011)

veracity said:


> Aye sadly I have been noticing quite a lot of people wearing EDL branded gear round Stockport recently.


 
Where abouts?  I talked to some in a pub in the market last year and they have met in both The Railway and The Hope, sometimes there a few in Weatherspoons. There is a small group that is mainly a troops fan club that operates around Stockport home games. There were about twelve of them when the troops came back to Stockport from Iraq.

I reckon about thirty perhaps forty supporters?


----------



## veracity (Apr 19, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Where abouts?  I talked to some in a pub in the market last year and they have met in both The Railway and The Hope, sometimes there a few in Weatherspoons. There is a small group that is mainly a troops fan club that operates around Stockport home games. There were about twelve of them when the troops came back to Stockport from Iraq.
> 
> I reckon about thirty perhaps forty supporters?


Haven't actually seen any meetings but quite a few on the streets knocking about in central Stockport and also a couple on the street in Heaviley.


----------



## soam (Apr 19, 2011)

*EDl in Barnsley again*

UAf were holding a northern conference in Barnsley last saturday 16th - a small group of EDL turned up, as did the cops who then shut the meeting down.

The UAF plan was to leaflet surrounding streets  - which would have left folk wide open to getting attacked by EDL.

worrying precedent though  - EDL now know that all they need to do is turn up at any left meeting and it will probably be shut down. The BNP are standing 19 candidates here in May - organising any effective public opposition to them is now pretty much impossible from what i can see


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 20, 2011)

soam said:


> UAf were holding a northern conference in Barnsley last saturday 16th - a small group of EDL turned up, as did the cops who then shut the meeting down.
> 
> The UAF plan was to leaflet surrounding streets  - which would have left folk wide open to getting attacked by EDL.
> 
> worrying precedent though  - EDL now know that all they need to do is turn up at any left meeting and it will probably be shut down. The BNP are standing 19 candidates here in May - organising any effective public opposition to them is now pretty much impossible from what i can see



What were the leaflets? If it was election anti BNP stuff then it is kind of useful to know because this is firmer evidence of EDL operating deliberately for the benefit of the BNP than has generally existed. Or was it anti EDL with some demo the tools have in mind?


----------



## BigTom (Apr 20, 2011)

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...anned-by-extremist-hate-group-97319-28541547/

Birmingham mosque condemns plan by MAC to protest royal wedding.. some of you EDL trollers might want to see what reaction this gets from edl'rs? Not sure..


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 20, 2011)

They have already said, that's good but why dont they do a counter demo and stop them instead? like what we will do innit.


----------



## soam (Apr 20, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What were the leaflets? If it was election anti BNP stuff then it is kind of useful to know because this is firmer evidence of EDL operating deliberately for the benefit of the BNP than has generally existed. Or was it anti EDL with some demo the tools have in mind?



oh yeah it was to be a leaflet drop against the BNP candidates in teh election and against the weekly BNP stall in the town centre - this isnt the first tiem the EDL have come out in supprt of the BNP in barnsley - there was a march against the BNP stall called in february that was disrupted by large group of EDl supporters  - who were clearly trying to rpevent the march going ahead. It did do but only with a large polcie escort and i would imagine that any UAF requests to conduct similar marches in the future will be refused by teh Police on public order grounds. 
Sadly the right now have control  - there can be no open effective organising without the EDL disrupting it.

COme back AFA !


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 20, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/royal_wedding_to_be_protected_by_edl_ring_of_steel_1_2608969
> 
> Royal wedding to be ‘protected by EDL ring of steel


Ring o shite more like


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 20, 2011)

Is there a pub at each tube station? i can see it going tits up if not....


----------



## audiotech (Apr 20, 2011)

'Migrant family’s race hate hell on Shropshire estate'

BPP stickers?

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2011/04/19/migrant-familys-race-hate-hell-on-shropshire-estate/


----------



## gawkrodger (Apr 20, 2011)

there's always been a bit of a fash presence in Telford.

It's an utter shithole

There was a BPP bonehead (former NF) who used to live in wolves who moved over there a few years back.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 20, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/4nbpqo


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 21, 2011)

The British Movement have been poking around South Manchester. 

www.manchesterafa.org/2011/04/18/british-movement-in-rusholme/


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 21, 2011)

soam said:


> oh yeah it was to be a leaflet drop against the BNP candidates in teh election and against the weekly BNP stall in the town centre - this isnt the first tiem the EDL have come out in supprt of the BNP in barnsley - there was a march against the BNP stall called in february that was disrupted by large group of EDl supporters  - who were clearly trying to rpevent the march going ahead. It did do but only with a large polcie escort and i would imagine that any UAF requests to conduct similar marches in the future will be refused by teh Police on public order grounds.
> Sadly the right now have control  - there can be no open effective organising without the EDL disrupting it.
> 
> COme back AFA !



Well, That was an easy victory for them wasn't it. All they did was turn up. No sustained campaign of violence, no chairs over heads, just a few minutes of posturing. That for me says everything I need to know about the UAF. Pathetic. Anti fascism is better off without you.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2011)

Bit over dramatic .Some oddballs putting up the occasional sticker is hardly the dawning of the Fourth Reich and actually its the Police who 'no platformed' them .If you really want to find one of the few remaining BM members then there is one in Lancashire Hill who posts fairly regularly on Stormfront.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 22, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Bit over dramatic .Some oddballs putting up the occasional sticker is hardly the dawning of the Fourth Reich and actually its the Police who 'no platformed' them .If you really want to find one of the few remaining BM members then there is one in Lancashire Hill who posts fairly regularly on Stormfront.



Agreed. 4 or 5 beer-gutted cartoon characters putting up stickers isn't a threat at all. Hardly worth wasting an organized effort on. 

Also, Soam's post about Barnsley is over dramatic ending with the plea of "Come back AFA", because UAF is feebly unable to steward it's own poorly attended meetings from what is in effect a *non violent* campaign against them. What country in the world has an anti fascist organization that crumbles when Ghandi-esque tactics are used against it? Pathetic.

If you compare the EDL with the NF of the late 70's you will see how the former are in comparison relatively non violent. The disruption to left wing meetings back then consisted of heavy violence. Chairs and bottles over heads, kickings, women punched, houses firebombed as well as immigrants murdered, etc. Hardly what is happening now. The left responded to all that with an equally brutal answer from within its own ranks. Now, in a completely different context, Soam is calling for help from without.

Doesn't seem right to me.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=211373062225726&id=136651456394162

Nice


----------



## audiotech (Apr 22, 2011)

Report on Halifax 'demo'.

http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/local/15_are_held_in_street_demo_1_3300628


----------



## Corax (Apr 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=211373062225726&id=136651456394162
> 
> Nice


 


> Paki is a race now? Get a hold on reality little tim... And I'm not talking about asians, I'm talking about paki muslims. Got a problem with it?



Errwut?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 22, 2011)

Yeah and that's more than likley Roberta the leader of the JDL......


----------



## Corax (Apr 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Yeah and that's more than likley Roberta the leader of the JDL......


 
Who wants people to bring bacon to her 'bikini party'....


----------



## veracity (Apr 22, 2011)

frankly there aren't enough facepalms in the world for this.... an EDL bikini party?? WTF????


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 23, 2011)

Not sure if it's the case but i have just got up, looks like the main EDL page with 88k likes has been taken down.... on St Georges day LOL


----------



## BigTom (Apr 23, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Apr 23, 2011)

Yeah looking that way for sure 

There is a god and he works at facebook


----------



## veracity (Apr 23, 2011)

Is it wrong that I'm having fun imagining EDLers choking on their cornflakes in outrage??


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 23, 2011)




----------



## Gingerman (Apr 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 
They're such charmers aren't they?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 23, 2011)

Yeah why can't we just go beat up some pakis, it's PC goan fukin mad i tell ya !!!!!!


----------



## TopCat (Apr 23, 2011)

"Brickthrowers are usually muslims; you can see that in the middle east where they stone women who got raped or even in Europe where muslims throw bricks at trauma helicopters. At any brickthrowing situation I wil keep betting my money on a muslim."


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 23, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> The British Movement have been poking around South Manchester.
> 
> www.manchesterafa.org/2011/04/18/british-movement-in-rusholme/



That's a name I haven't seen for at least 20 years.Thought they were washed up.


----------



## Corax (Apr 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Not sure if it's the case but i have just got up, looks like the main EDL page with 88k likes has been taken down.... on St Georges day LOL


 
It's not St George's day.  But other than that - lol.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 23, 2011)

UK Uncut? 
MDL? 
or just they hit the magic number on reported posts for out and out racism. 

Who cares 

And before 39 or anyone else kicks off been out all day at a BBQ so fuck you


----------



## Corax (Apr 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> UK Uncut?
> MDL?
> or just they hit the magic number on reported posts for out and out racism.
> 
> ...


 
EDL Not St Georges Day BBQ.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 23, 2011)

We don't have them in Wales


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 24, 2011)

Video reportedly shows EDL and NF confronting the left wing stalls in Newcastle.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 24, 2011)

i did hear about a sp stall being attacked in newcastle the other week. bloody hell it all sounds like it kicking off on that video. 

"nazi scum off our streets" - ffs.

good on them for confronting them tho.


----------



## bluestreak (Apr 24, 2011)

every brick i throw is for allah


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 24, 2011)

EDL and NF together?  I'm sure Eddy Morrison (current NF "face") will be riled up that the "Zionist"-controlled EDL are rather friendly with the NF in the Toon.  Enough to drive you to drink, eh Eddy?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 24, 2011)




----------



## Red Storm (Apr 24, 2011)

http://radiokotor.info/

EDL exposed/information. Copy it into a word doc in case the website gets closed down.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 24, 2011)

posting up pictures of peoples kids is out of order, even if they are fascist scum.


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 24, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> posting up pictures of peoples kids is out of order, even if they are fascist scum.


 
It wasn't me


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 24, 2011)

not saying it was.


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 24, 2011)

But I agree with you.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 24, 2011)

New EDL page hacked already  and all 3k members lost in a day,....

no i didnt hack it 39


----------



## treelover (Apr 24, 2011)

There have been many left vs far right confrontations in Newcastle over the years, I remember Kevin Scott and co turning up to the annual May Day festival just as Tony Benn was speaking, using steel topped flag poles as weapons, they got battered. But normally as in the incident above the Left were protected by the police or would have come off worse. 

are the EDL pro-cuts now, can't see that going down in their workplaces, communities, etc, most similar groups in Europe are pro welfare state, though not for everyone of course..


----------



## treelover (Apr 24, 2011)

oh and 'Blue Labour' will probably steal some of their thunder...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/apr/24/blue-labour-maurice-glasman


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 24, 2011)

Found this related to Newcastle on St George's Day on the Blog linked below



> A FRFI activist started off on the megaphone, shouting about how nationalism breads intolerance and that St George's Day should not be celebrated. That sort of message turns people towards the EDL in fear of their losing their identity



http://www.blightyandy.co.uk/2011/04/edl-openly-support-national-front-in.html

As per usual the left doesn't know how to communicate outside it's own small pond. A big  for the hack with the megaphone.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 24, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> EDL and NF together?  I'm sure Eddy Morrison (current NF "face") will be riled up that the "Zionist"-controlled EDL are rather friendly with the NF in the Toon.  Enough to drive you to drink, eh Eddy?



This was posted on Scumfront;



> NATIONAL FRONT ST. GEORGE'S DAY NEWCASTLE 23rd April 2011
> 
> Over sixty members of the National Front backed up by around forty supporters from the EDL marched on Saturday morning through Newcastle centre to Grey's Monument, the traditional rallying point each year for the North-East Region's St. George's Say Assembly.
> NF members applauded a march past of the Royal Fusiliers and presented them with a St. George's day flag!
> ...


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 24, 2011)

Anudder Oik - saw that earlier on, very interesting.  Have just found something scribbled by an NF member, who whilst holding the party line on the EDL being "sinister and pro-Zionist", seems to want to convert the more youthful elements of them over to Young National Front, as follows:



> The re-establishment of the YNF is critical, but in the meantime we must reach out to any EDL members we can and get to them some basic White Nationalist education.
> Groups which have touted their 'ultra-respectability' for the last ten years are suddenly spouting militant platitudes - they have missed the bus - their young and virile members have for the most part gone.
> Not so with the NF. Although smaller, it has the cadre youth leaders and the potential to lead the thousands attending EDL demos (most of them not members) into street activities which the NF has for many years been the leading exponent.



So not so much of an official EDL/NF alliance, but more of their mutual interests in Islamophobia leading certain elements of the NF to take this as an opportunity to recruit, which they may well be successful at, to some extent.  The NF are by and large a busted flush politically - they have virtually no money and seem to have adopted hardcore John Tyndall views and stances - but them pulling out the numbers for a march/demonstration still needs to be paid attention to.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 24, 2011)

EDL main Facebook site is back up again. Much jizzing and foaming once more about 'the enemies of england'


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 24, 2011)

On the spot "March For England" in Brighton report by "Malatesta" - with the usual EDL and ENA suspects showing up: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/04/478021.html


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 24, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> EDL main Facebook site is back up again. Much jizzing and foaming once more about 'the enemies of england'


 
and it's gone again....


----------



## Corax (Apr 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> and it's gone again....


 
roflcopter


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 24, 2011)

Think it's been hacked, they may get it back who knows... 

so far the legit page has about 1400 people on it, if they dont get the page back it will take months for them to even get back in the 10k figures if you ask me. 

I think the main reason they got back to 3k yesterday was due to it being St georges day.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 24, 2011)




----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 24, 2011)

' their young and virile members have for the most part gone'
whose? the NF's? I dont think Eddy Morrisons or Tom Lindens members have moved for quite some time. 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 24, 2011)

Tommy Robinson reacts to EDL Facebook page deletion


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




I've seen a few of that guy's broadcasts. He is a weapons grade tool - a vile reactionary co-opting a radical style. The dupes will love him.


----------



## pk (Apr 25, 2011)

nope wasn't me


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 25, 2011)

^^^Been done already (Post #1998 on this thread).  It also gives details and photos of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon's children - really not a good move at all.  And the people who've done this have form for being anti-Semitic as well (hacking/destroying Facebook etc accounts of Jewish people, simply for being Jews).  So I'm not well-disposed to this exposé at all, or the bigots behind it.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 25, 2011)

Yeah, it's pretty vile stuff. I have friends who have had death threats for their anti fascist activities, I daresay many of us here have. It's no good to wish it on others, or make it more likely. It just stokes things up further. That's probably why EDL run the occasional story like 'Kevin Carroll was assassinated'


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 25, 2011)

Best piece I've seen so far on the weekend takedown

http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2011/04/24/edl-on-rampage-as-website-is-hacked-on-patriot-day/


----------



## manny-p (Apr 25, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> ^^^Been done already (Post #1998 on this thread).  It also gives details and photos of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon's children - really not a good move at all.  And the people who've done this have form for being anti-Semitic as well (hacking/destroying Facebook etc accounts of Jewish people, simply for being Jews).  So I'm not well-disposed to this exposé at all, or the bigots behind it.


 
Yea they are dickheads for doing this.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 25, 2011)

The old main EDL page was up again for 20 mins just now - lots of accusations being thrown at Tommy and Kev re. money and Republican sympathies.  Most likely a disgruntled EDL/ex-EDLer on admin duties.  The several "official" EDL pages have been going up and down like yoyos all this long weekend.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 25, 2011)

yeah i was there man  

Defo inside job and people pissed with Tommy sniffing all the money.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 26, 2011)

Doh was from the fake page.... lol


----------



## Fingers (Apr 26, 2011)

They are in complete dissarray, none of them know which page is fake and which is real and if their main website has been hacked or not.  Headless chickens.  This has been a major disaster for the EDL. Their main recruiting tool was Facebook and the whole set up is in tatters.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 26, 2011)

More fun and games on Facebook - the old official site was up and then down, with the admin threatening to destroy it, the new "official" page has been shouting about the old one, the new new "no we're official" page has been accusing the new "official" page of being, uh, not official....and Guramit Singh has claimed he's been offline over the past while, and has no idea what's going on.  Roberta Moore of the Jewish Division has been caught endorsiing fascists within EDL, and one of the Jewish Division admins has been outed as not being Jewish.  Meawhile, Tommy and Kev are saying nothing....wonder if the EDL Forum is still hacked?


----------



## manny-p (Apr 26, 2011)

This thread should be renamed EDL facebook stalkers.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 26, 2011)

allybaba said:


> This thread should be renamed EDL facebook stalkers.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 26, 2011)

> =...Roberta Moore of the Jewish Division has been caught endorsiing fascists within EDL...,



While checking out the above I came across this article on the EDL. It's grim reading and IMO painfully and correctly identifies the particular strand of fascism that the EDL is. The cunts.

http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/2668703295/lennonist-fascism-same-old-street-new-houses


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 27, 2011)

^^^Grim reading indeed.  I thought it was pretty spot on analysis-wise, if a little heavy at times, particulary on the end stuff (point made, then again, then again etc).  Points deducted though for marking down Angela Merkel as a fascist.  Merkel has form on blundering around on the issue of whether the Turkish community can be "real" Germans (the BRD has always made a hash of this - they still don't allow dual citizenship for ethnic Turks born there after a certain age, which is a sore point in the Turkish community...Turks tend to support the SPD/Greens as well).  I don't believe though that she has an outright hostility to Turks that could be construed to be racist - that patch in Germany is taken up by the NPD, who most definitely are fascists.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 27, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> While checking out the above I came across this article on the EDL. It's grim reading and IMO painfully and correctly identifies the particular strand of fascism that the EDL is. The cunts.
> 
> http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/2668703295/lennonist-fascism-same-old-street-new-houses


 
Tedious.What is the point? Hasn't this bloke got anything more useful to do?


----------



## Frankie Jack (Apr 27, 2011)

SDL having another go at marching in Scotland. Not Edinburgh or Glasgow though, it's gonna be in Berwick of all places.. sigh.

Twats


----------



## Corax (Apr 27, 2011)

Frankie Jack said:


> SDL having another go at marching in Scotland. Not Edinburgh or Glasgow though, it's gonna be in Berwick of all places.. sigh.
> 
> Twats


 
Berwick's in England isn't it?


----------



## Frankie Jack (Apr 27, 2011)

Corax said:


> Berwick's in England isn't it?


 
Just about Corax... Just about.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 27, 2011)

EDL demo in Wales, so why can't the SDL demo in England...


----------



## manny-p (Apr 27, 2011)

Corax said:


> Berwick's in England isn't it?


 
Massive muslamic presence in Berwick


----------



## Corax (Apr 27, 2011)

Bastards.  Starting at the edges and working in.


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 28, 2011)

A leaflet in Salford has been distributed supposedly from the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain. Full of anti white stuff and also obviously fake. 

http://manchesterafa.org/2011/04/27/fake-leaflet-distributed-to-incite-racism-in-salford/


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 28, 2011)

Will the EDL counter demo this lot?

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/861926-right-wing-baptist-church-plans-royal-wedding-protest


----------



## xes (Apr 28, 2011)

I see the WBC got their arses kicked in the US last week 
http://www.retirelikeme.com/2011/04/21/mississippi-town-destroys-westboro-baptist-plans/



sorry, not edl related....


----------



## Corax (Apr 28, 2011)

xes said:


> I see the WBC got their arses kicked in the US last week
> http://www.retirelikeme.com/2011/04/21/mississippi-town-destroys-westboro-baptist-plans/
> 
> 
> ...


 
Good news story - but what a strange website!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 28, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Tedious.What is the point? Hasn't this bloke got anything more useful to do?


 
One of the most amusing things about the internet is the people who go around denouncing those who might have 'nothing better to do' without neccessarily applying the same standards to the very activity they are indulging in.

Perhaps you could provide a series of guidelines for internet postings / blogs etc. People could fill out how the objectives had been met and submit them to you for approval before each posting.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 28, 2011)




----------



## emanymton (Apr 28, 2011)

I've just heard Tommy Robinson has left the EDL, can anybody confirm this?


----------



## Corax (Apr 28, 2011)

emanymton said:


> I've just heard Tommy Robinson has left the EDL, can anybody confirm this?


 
Not true apparently.  Posted on one of the 'fake' pages to wind people up.

Here's something that IS from the 'peaceful protest group' though:


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> Not true apparently.  Posted on one of the 'fake' pages to wind people up.
> 
> Here's something that IS from the 'peaceful protest group' though:


What a bunch of sad pathetic cunts


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 28, 2011)

What an Angel


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)




----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 
have you ever thought of summarising and posting a link instead of some grotesque cut and paste odyssey?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

yeah but then i stuck a fucking picture in instead.

If you need me to explain how a picture of something works i can pop over something?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah but then i stuck a fucking picture in instead.
> 
> If you need me to explain how a picture of something works i can pop over something?


 
no, i said 





Pickman's model said:


> have you ever thought of summarising and posting a link instead of some grotesque cut and paste odyssey?


 not 






			
				Pickman's model said:
			
		

> post up some old self-justificatory shite


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Cool story bro.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

you could have put 






			
				bob2009 said:
			
		

> the edl on infighting, money etc: http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/418/2047508087.png


which would have done the job better


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Shit, i'm sorry. Will PM you before i post anything else and check if it's ok with you. 

Safe


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

What time you going to bed? i might want to post something else later?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Shit i just posted that without checking... sorry !!!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Doh !! and that one.... FFS, maybe the internet is just not for me? Am off to bed


----------



## Corax (Apr 29, 2011)

In the context of a thread about the EDL, that's a pretty important statement and worth posting in full - especially as the page itself is up and down like a yoyo.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Yeah but i did it wrong :-(


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Yeah but i did it wrong :-(


putting stuff like this in full is essential but we also need the links as well so we can source it for research. it also looks like severe schisms in the EDL, there is money to be made here. most amusing!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

As said main edl page up and down like a yoyo, anyone else not happy with the way I post can just block me or shut the fuck up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Yeah but i did it wrong :-(


 
yeh, you did it wrong because you didn't read what you agreed to when you signed up here. the faq states inter alia that images should be below 75k, which in the context of editor asking for money for the server fund means your posting large pictures has a knock-on effect to other people. i don't suppose you've ever given any money to the server fund. the faq says that large pictures should be described / summarised and a link provided. you wouldn't be allowed to link to the edl website - again, contrary to faq - but despite your whining that 





> As said main edl page up and down like a yoyo, anyone else not happy with the way I post can just block me or shut the fuck up.


that doesn't apply: you have a persistant link to the image.

so, yes, it's a useful document. and it's good you've brought it to people's attention. but why not try to summarise what you're posting so people aren't presented with a big fuck off block of text without being given some hint of what's in it and why it's important. you may be the sort of person who reads all the big long posts here, but if you are you've very much in a minority.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Bam and it's gone


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Bam and it's gone


 
i'm not sure you know what a persistent link is.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 29, 2011)

EDL supposed to have attacked Palestine SC in Bristol last night -at the pointless hippy peace vigil.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Main page is back up  most of them are so thick they still think it was hacked by muzzies... etc etc


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah how stupid will i look when 2.9% of the population take over the Uk.


 
hmm... and how big's the ruling class?


----------



## xes (Apr 29, 2011)

are they kicking off in london yet, any news on them?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 29, 2011)

Kicking off? At what?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

xes said:


> are they kicking off in london yet, any news on them?


 
i think you're on the wrong thread.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

xes said:


> are they kicking off in london yet, any news on them?


 
Dont think many went...


----------



## xes (Apr 29, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you're on the wrong thread.


 
I don't think that. There was talk, either on here or somewhere else. That the EDL and the MDL were going to be having a bit of a "get together". Well, the EDL were apparently going to try and stop them at the train stations. Just wondered if any of it happened.


----------



## skitr (Apr 29, 2011)

They decided not to do it after the MAC's protest application was turned down.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Was MAC not MDL


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

A Picture with stuff on it, and i have you on ignore you before you mouth off about it pickman so there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> A Picture with stuff on it, and i have you on ignore you before you mouth off about it pickman so there.


 good for you  it is indeed a picture with stuff on it


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

three apparent edl charged with vandalism of huddersfield mosque: http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/local/accused_of_race_crimes_1_3336307


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

you need to type louder i can't read it.


----------



## Corax (Apr 29, 2011)

The infighting in the EDl is fucking hilarious.  Typical right wing morons.  You'd never see squabbling and division like that on the left.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 29, 2011)

Anyone heard any more on the Facebook chitter chatter of the E-E-Eejits sending a small posse down to Westminster, who then got caught up in the crowds in Whitehall and couldn't move anyway or do anything - bet they didn't even make it to the Red Lion pub


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

It's funny as fuck, and with any luck the end of the EDL.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

EDL ring of steel for the wedding....







Dont it make you proud !!!


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 29, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> EDL supposed to have attacked Palestine SC in Bristol last night -at the pointless hippy peace vigil.



This is off of Bristol indymedia



> On Thursday 21st April 2 anti-war campaigners were physically attacked on the daily Peace Vigil on the Centre.   One of those attacked, a member of Bristol Palestine Solidarity Campaign, was holding a placard calling for an end to the siege of Gaza.  The attacker shouted anti-Palestinian slogans, threw him into the hedge and hit him around the head.   Over the next few days the PSC member became more and more unwell and was admitted to hospital on Sunday with a brain haemorrhage.  He is critically ill in Intensive Care.  Our thoughts are with him and his family and friends.
> 
> The police were informed of the attack and examined CCTV footage of the attack.   The film was of such poor quality that it was not possible to identify anyone.  Without further investigation the police then closed the case.  On the 26th of April the police were made aware of his serious condition and the case has been re-opened.



http://www.bristol.indymedia.org/article/704283?&condense_comments=false#comment52289

There is no proof it was EDL it could just as easily have been NF or a zionist. There is however a context to the attack, there is an evident escalation of intimidation tactics given the atmosphere that the whole EDL thing has created. See Barnsley, Newcastle and Brighton. They have breathed life back into the extreme right and given them the confidence to stick their thick necks back out on the street again. They are going now from posturing to physical.


----------



## Corax (Apr 29, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> They have breathed life back into the extreme right and given them the confidence to stick their thick necks back out on the street again. They are going now from posturing to physical.


 
Wouldn't be surprising.  The EDL has connected people with similar opinions/prejudices/whatever.  Whilst the EDL attempts to present an image of legitimacy then the worst of the thuggery has to be kept in check, or at least superficially condemned.  If/when the EDL fractures then the more sociopathic racists will still be networked and so able to find courage in numbers, but will be unrestrained.  Numbers involved overall will shrink (unless another group projecting legitimacy takes their place), but those that remain will (ironically) be 'extremists'.

IMO etc.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2011)

Not posting the link, but ZHC have hacked Kev Carroll's facebook and posted a website full of PM's photo's etc......


----------



## ddraig (Apr 30, 2011)

apparently Caerphilly town centre is swarming with BNP scum this afternoon


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 30, 2011)

It's true, am in Bristol today tho :-/


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 30, 2011)

Auntie Beeb reports that the EDL had their "big one" in Weymouth for....10 minutes, then broke up: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-13249466  SPORT OUR SEESIDES!!!


----------



## audiotech (Apr 30, 2011)

Tom Nairn in his published work:The Enchanted Glass (1988), made reference to the state using reactionary forces to be used as a threat, to counter the growth and influence of progressive moments, usually of the left in times of crisis. Expect more of the same as the current crisis deepens.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 30, 2011)

EDL not happy about the demo today.... etc 

[video]http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/420/2815831625.png[/video]


----------



## thom1423 (May 1, 2011)

Those racist thugs need sorting out


----------



## thom1423 (May 1, 2011)

No to bnp in Nottingham!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## thom1423 (May 1, 2011)

were black white muslin and Jew black white muslin black white muslin black white muslin and were Jew and were gay!!!!!!
edl go to hell take your mums there as well.


----------



## butchersapron (May 1, 2011)

Hmmm.


----------



## Corax (May 1, 2011)

A penguin with sunburn?


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 1, 2011)

And what do we have here then.


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 1, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> And what do we have here then.



Someone who goes to the effort to register on a forum to sing songs. Naff ones at that.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 1, 2011)

Muslin


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 1, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Muslin


 
You can never have enough muslin, I say.  Especially the black white variety.


----------



## Corax (May 1, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> You can never have enough muslin, I say.  Especially the black white variety.


----------



## The39thStep (May 1, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Tom Nairn in his published work:The Enchanted Glass (1988), made reference to the state using reactionary forces to be used as a threat, to counter the growth and influence of progressive moments, usually of the left in times of crisis. Expect more of the same as the current crisis deepens.


 
But the state seems to be using the EDL  to counter the BNP rather than the left. 

In any case where is your evidence that what you say is happening?


----------



## manny-p (May 1, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> But the state seems to be using the EDL  to counter the BNP rather than the left.
> 
> In any case where is your evidence that what you say is happening?


 
Smashing up lefty stalls and shit?


----------



## audiotech (May 1, 2011)

On reflection I take your point and I can see now that I was running ahead with the last bit of my post.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 1, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Tom Nairn in his published work:The Enchanted Glass (1988), made reference to the state using reactionary forces to be used as a threat, to counter the growth and influence of progressive moments, usually of the left in times of crisis. Expect more of the same as the current crisis deepens.


 what, gangs and counter-gangs like out of frank kitson? wasn't a new idea in 1988


----------



## audiotech (May 1, 2011)

Nairn never claimed it was a new idea. As I said, he made reference to the use of such forces.


----------



## The39thStep (May 1, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Smashing up lefty stalls and shit?


 
By and large there has only been a handful of incidents.


----------



## manny-p (May 3, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> By and large there has only been a handful of incidents.


 
True watch this space though.


----------



## Ranbay (May 4, 2011)




----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 4, 2011)

^^^SPORT ARE BJORK

I think Tommy's threatened to release a video by the end of this week about EDL business.  I bet the EDL faithful can't wait to see him full of Columbia's finest export John Bull vigour, with lots of No Surrender blather to boot.  What the kids wanna know is: where's the money, Tommy?


----------



## Ranbay (May 4, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (May 5, 2011)

if anyone cares, the EDL is falling apart live on facebook right now.... 

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...s#!/note.php?note_id=207342762633583&comments


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 5, 2011)

> 8 police officers lodge injury claims after EDL protest in Hanley



http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/INJURED-COPS-WANT-PAY/article-3517538-detail/article.html


----------



## Corax (May 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> if anyone cares, the EDL is falling apart live on facebook right now....
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...s#!/note.php?note_id=207342762633583&comments


 
I care.  Well, not 'care' particularly, but certainly enjoy.  The lols are undeniable....



> The EDL is becoming the strongest fight against Islamism the world has ever seen


----------



## Ranbay (May 5, 2011)

It's fucking LOL tastic....

Aslo in two weeks of having the page removed they have 5k members back....... and a large amount of them are Anti EDL and NWI guys.... lol


----------



## Corax (May 5, 2011)

Lulz....




			
				EDL said:
			
		

> There wasn't going to be a statement! We were forced into wasting our time making a video statement ,rather than working on anti-jihad


----------



## manny-p (May 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> if anyone cares, the EDL is falling apart live on facebook right now....
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/note.php?no...s#!/note.php?note_id=207342762633583&comments


 
No it doesnae.


----------



## manny-p (May 6, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> By and large there has only been a handful of incidents.


 


> We have decided to put all our efforts into opposing everything you do regardless of the issue at hand its your organisations we oppose. Unlike you we won’t be announcing it all over internet when and where we will be, neither will we post your details over the net even though we may have them. Every event you hold will be a potential target along with your meetings, fund raisers and social events. You are going to be sick of the sight of us. We have had successes before disrupting your meetings and have also attended your events, however since I parted company with edl I haven’t really trouble you that much but the batteries are fully recharged so its game on.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/whose-streets-by-snowy-reblogged/

Looks like the infidels are going to be more disruptive to the left than the EDL although this could all be talk.


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

EDL is dead......


----------



## Fingers (May 6, 2011)

I think Blackpool will be the demise of the EDL. John 'Snowy' Shaw and his mob will deffo be wanting to disrupt it.  It is going to be one mass fight.

If anyone knew where Tommy was, someone should have a word to cancel.


----------



## Fingers (May 6, 2011)

Word from the East Anglian Division.  Seems MAC have given them a proper battering.

"Anyone who can get to the US Embassy in London get there, 250 MAC attacked our lads with poles 3 have been badly battered, one 15 yr old kid taken to hospital, weve now got 40 there and its like fucking Rorkes Drift. Police stood by and let them do it and didnt nick any of them."


----------



## DrRingDing (May 6, 2011)




----------



## Fingers (May 6, 2011)

They seem to have surrendered lol


----------



## gawkrodger (May 6, 2011)

mAC = ?? Muslims against crusades??


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bin-laden-supporters-clash-with-edl-2280160.html

Bin Laden supporters clash with EDL


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 6, 2011)

^^^ A sensible point of view from a witness:



> Mary Smythe, 38, from Croydon, south London, said: "I think both sides are pathetic, quite frankly.
> 
> "It's disappointing and horrible to listen to the threats. They are all an embarrassment to this country."


----------



## Gingerman (May 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bin-laden-supporters-clash-with-edl-2280160.html
> 
> Bin Laden supporters clash with EDL


 Both sides of the same turd


----------



## Fingers (May 6, 2011)

Yes Gawk.

Cunts vs cunts. Awesome.


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2011)

Ringding, my enemies enemy is my friend, etc, nice friends you have then...


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2011)

btw, it looks like Choudrys lot is growing, don't you realise the impact that will have outside lefty land, its a recruiting seargent for the far right...


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

> Hundreds of Osama bin Laden supporters clashed with *English Defence League extremists* today as a "funeral service" for the assassinated terror leader sparked fury outside London's US Embassy.



LOL's x 1000


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2011)

knob....


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

LOL x 2000


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

some stuff about some things what dun happend like yesterday or something....


----------



## treelover (May 6, 2011)

do you have any politics Bob, or are you one of those 'liberal' single issue types?

the growth of MAC and the Jihadis will over time be much more dangerous than the EDL...


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

yeah


----------



## manny-p (May 6, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> Both sides of the same turd


 
Yep arseholes, let them kill each other.


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

and stick it on PPV


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

> English Defence League EDL
> The English Defence League will be heading directly into the heartland of Islamic terrorism after Blackpool.
> 
> We are heading into Tower Hamlets.
> ...


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 6, 2011)

^^^ Remember the BNP's "Rights For Whites" marches in this area in the very early 90's?  Attended (as seen on a BBC documentary) by full-blown fascists and racists.

This is sheer provocation - the EDL MUST be aware of the BNP's campaign here.  This could end up being banned by Met Plod, if this really is the EDL's intent to do this.


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2011)

It is only a tactic to get people back on the side of the EDL, they have lost so much support this past two weeks, they think this will keep the troops happy...


----------



## Corax (May 7, 2011)

I've really enjoyed watching the EDL implode.

And by the looks of it, they are finished as a force.

But to be honest, there's no satisfaction in it.

The sentiments that fuelled people to label themselves as EDL are still there.  They are probably more prevalent and more fiercely felt than ever before.

They are genuine sentiments, they are sincerely held beliefs.  And they are not only held by people that we can merely write of as inherent racists and fascists.  They are held by a large number of people that are in other respects tolerant and decent.  They are held by a large number of people that have, for more than a decade, been told that the UK's problems are caused by excessive immigration, and that militant Islam poses a constant and real threat to them and their families.

IMO, they are wrong.

The EDL never really mattered.  They never got that far.  Their core numbers probably never got near five figures.  But the numbers of those that sympathise with their official 'ideology' run into the millions, IMO.

Groups will emerge from their ashes.  The Infidels, as a separate group, will undoubtedly grow in numbers for instance.  And without the attempt to claim respectability that the EDL covet then it's likely (IMO etc), that some of these groups will be more overt in their racism, and will foster physical assaults and semi-organised racial violence.

Whatever the result of the EDL's implosion though, satisfying though it may be to observe, the stimulus for their existence has not disappeared.

Many sections of society feel that they have no representation in the systems of the state, nor that any such representation is on offer.  Because of this disenfranchisement a significant number of young white working class males have been gulled by the far right.  This will not go away just because Stephen Yaxley-Lennon has spent all their cash on cocaine.


My point?  I don't have one.  Call it thinking out loud.


----------



## veracity (May 7, 2011)

^ good post Corax. I agree that despite the very amusing infighting there is a core set of values which are held by many people which just aren't going away any time soon. And really I'd rather they were all chasing shadows and infighting on facebook than out on the streets so feel worried about the implosion. It's going to lead to some very misguided spontaneous actions IMO.


----------



## barney_pig (May 7, 2011)

I agree with the point made by several posters that while nobody has tears for the demise of the edl, their constant declarations of 'peaceful' protest, which was always a joke, did keep somewhat of a lid on the violence, the 'new' groups have no such restraints


----------



## Ranbay (May 7, 2011)

http://www.lep.co.uk/lifestyle/culture/edl_to_demo_at_comedy_gig_1_3358290

About the EDL demo at Russell Howard gig... lol


----------



## The39thStep (May 7, 2011)

treelover said:


> btw, it looks like Choudrys lot is growing, don't you realise the impact that will have outside lefty land, its a recruiting seargent for the far right...


 
Hardly , its just mobilising the small pockets of latent support around what is a key incident. Surprised that there hasn't been more to say over a USA hit squad with helicopters carrying out an assassination in another country to be honest.


----------



## barney_pig (May 7, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Hardly , its just mobilising the small pockets of latent support around what is a key incident. Surprised that there hasn't been more to say over a USA hit squad with helicopters carrying out an assassination in another country to be honest.


 If the Americans had done this ten years ago then the World might have been spared a lot of pain


----------



## Ranbay (May 7, 2011)

> Well after 2 weeks of speculation and rumours from a group of people wanting to split the EDL Tommy has finished the video that answers all the questions and it is now being uploaded. The video will take some time to upload as it is 45 mins long so go and get your popcorn ready.



ohhhh


----------



## Fingers (May 7, 2011)

45 mins of coked up rambling? WTF?


----------



## Ranbay (May 7, 2011)

with fake screen shots and accounts of where the money went.... lol

It's taken them 2 weeks to make it....


----------



## likesfish (May 7, 2011)

even chourdary would be hard pressed to milk outrage over bin getting his just deserts


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 7, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> If the Americans had done this ten years ago then the World might have been spared a lot of pain



yeah, but they didn't and it's not difficult to sus why. Basically he was useful back then as a propaganda bogeyman to wave in "our" faces every week to create tension and justify the war on terror. A load of bollox IMO.

They killed him now because the Arab spring revolutions have proven that the muslim world is full of people like us with democratic ideas and that the Bin Laden lie was no longer viable. He had no support or influence in the middle east. He was ignored. In fact he was more important here due to media hyping. What do you do with an asset that becomes obsolete? You get rid of it.

That Mac lot should be rounded up. There demo amounts to apology for terrorism. Mind you they could be useful to the state to help stir up islamaphobia.


----------



## Gingerman (May 7, 2011)

The medja esp the tabloids must fucking love Chourdary,I bet they got the fucker on speed dial.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 7, 2011)

Hands up who thinks Choudray hasn't had a cosy chat or two with Plod in the past?


----------



## Ranbay (May 7, 2011)

still uploading, the statment from TR on money and stuff and things that what dun happend init.


----------



## Gingerman (May 7, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Hands up who thinks Choudray hasn't had a cosy chat or two with Plod in the past?


 I wonder if he lets the EDL know whenever he organises his stunts in the hope that they'll turn out to oppose him garnering him even more publicity?


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2011)

'this video is private' mate


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 7, 2011)

According to Twitter, Tommy's yoinked it due to him showing a spreadsheet with people's personal details on it.

Tommy Robinson - doing the work of TeamPoison  D)


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2011)

heh fukin heh


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2011)

yeah new one back up in the AM, they had two weeks and still fucked it up.... lol


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 8, 2011)

treelover said:


> do you have any politics Bob, or are you one of those 'liberal' single issue types?
> 
> the growth of MAC and the Jihadis will over time be much more dangerous than the EDL...


 
MAC are a pathetic shower of shit. Jihadis are a minority of a minority of a minority as the arab spring shows pretty well. Without naming specific groups I'd say that hate fuelled (blasphemous) islam and the opposite hate fuelled nationalism and islamaphobia could well be about level in regard to how dangerous they are.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 8, 2011)

*islam 4uk off!*

article on choudhray. 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/11/15/edl-mac-same-thing/

theres other stuff on him too: 

http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/page/2/


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2011)

think that's all there is, re uploaded.


----------



## skitr (May 8, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> MAC are a pathetic shower of shit. Jihadis are a minority of a minority of a minority as the arab spring shows pretty well. Without naming specific groups I'd say that hate fuelled (blasphemous) islam and the opposite hate fuelled nationalism and islamaphobia could well be about level in regard to how dangerous they are.


 
Yeah definitely. They're both an embarrassment.


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2011)

Full video now.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Full video now.




fucking 40 minutes of them?  it's enough to make you suicidal


----------



## veracity (May 8, 2011)

O lawks can someone post a concise summary, I can't put up with 40 mins of that.


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2011)

Stop picking on me, i didn't ask for this, nobody would want my job, police protection 24/7, i used to be rich before the EDL, yada yada yada... /end


----------



## Ranbay (May 8, 2011)

Oh and they pulled the other video as they uploaded the wrong one


----------



## Corax (May 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> think that's all there is, re uploaded.




On next week's episode, John Shaw admitted to hospital.


----------



## veracity (May 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Stop picking on me, i didn't ask for this, nobody would want my job, police protection 24/7, i used to be rich before the EDL, yada yada yada... /end


Same old same old then, when will he learn to sing a new song?


----------



## Gingerman (May 8, 2011)

veracity said:


> O lawks can someone post a concise summary, I can't put up with 40 mins of that.


Muslims blah blah blah sharia law blah blah blah taking over our country blah blah blah we're not racist blah blah blah repeat Ad nauseam


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 8, 2011)

Looks like Tango Tommy's Arthur Daley spiel has been a) laughed at and b) picked apart by the NWI/NEI/SI "Infidels" - they're not happy bunnies that Tommy's piss-poor explanation of level 1 Excel skills have revealed much more than what Tommy wanted to let on.  Tut tut.  And anti-fascists have been hitting Luton Plod with the video evidence that Tommy's been keeping illegal bank accounts.  Looks like it's gone from Honest Tommy to Comical Tommy in an instant.

At least wth the NF, you know that Eddy Morrison will use the funds for essential anti-ZOG trips to Bargain Booze!


----------



## audiotech (May 8, 2011)

Tommy's claim that there was a leftie infiltrator pretending to be an 'Hells Angel' and found out writing for 'Socialist News' is a cracker.


----------



## Corax (May 10, 2011)

Their 'new' page appears to have vanished too now....


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> Their 'new' page appears to have vanished too now....


 
I suspect the demon hand of TeamPoison is doing the hokey-cokey with their pages still.


----------



## Red Storm (May 11, 2011)

English National Alliance page has now been hacked by Z Company


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2011)

Steven Yaxey Mainwaring fined £350 for the flag snatch incident (oo-err!) at the london demo. they are fuming. the poppy burner got 50 quid fine! no justice is there?


----------



## stuff_it (May 11, 2011)




----------



## Fingers (May 11, 2011)

I noticed serial nazi, Bill Baker has had his group hacked. They struggle to keep hold of their Facebook pages


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 11, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> Steven Yaxey Mainwaring fined £350 for the flag snatch incident (oo-err!) at the london demo. they are fuming. the poppy burner got 50 quid fine! no justice is there?


 
I would have fined him another £350 for the ridiuculous way he landed straight into Plod's arms after leaping that barrier.  Still, I'm sure he had a cosy chat with Plod afterwards 

Oh well, I'm sure he can sell a few more tatty hoodies to pay the fine.


----------



## Corax (May 11, 2011)

Kev Hamilton said:
			
		

> I was being served by an muslim lady in a papershop, blackburn. She wore a conspicuous necklace which had a dangly thing showing 2020. I asked her politely what this symbolised, and she said "the year we take over this country". Anyone else come across this?!!



Course you did Kev.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 12, 2011)

Corax said:


> Course you did Kev.


 
Fucking hell


----------



## Fingers (May 12, 2011)

It seems there has been a mutiny within the Jewish Division page.  Robert Bartholemeus and mental Roberta have been booted out of the FB group by a moderate admin.


----------



## Fingers (May 12, 2011)

Hmmm



> EDL English Defence League Jewish Division
> Hi!!! Peace and love to all of you always.
> This page has very kindly been passed to me.
> Initially there will be some rejoicing, then the control of the page will be given to some Jewish friends of mine.
> Peace and love to all people of all religious faiths and all races.






> Robert Bartholomeus (Today at 09:18)
> 
> "Sad sad gavvi boy, if you do not return the page, your face will be all over the EDL pages as a traitor. People will find out where you live and put all your private information on the internet, including that of your wife and your daughter.
> Think twice about that, for your daughter's sake. "
> ...


----------



## Fingers (May 12, 2011)

lol The Jewish Page has now been handed over to Expose who are going to hand it over to some nice Jewish people


----------



## Fingers (May 12, 2011)

Batty Berta goes mental

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/432/5303867717.png


----------



## Ranbay (May 12, 2011)




----------



## The Black Hand (May 12, 2011)

EDL racist attack oop norf; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-13365182

EDL outside court fight, 5 arrests;  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13367634


----------



## Ranbay (May 12, 2011)

There is a video of the fight not seen it yet as in work.....


----------



## manny-p (May 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> There is a video of the fight not seen it yet as in work.....


 


heres the fight one of their 'angels' got punched in the face.


----------



## Corax (May 12, 2011)

allybaba said:


> heres the fight one of their 'angels' got punched in the face.




That wasn't a punch, it was a forearm smash to the face.  

I don't give a fuck whether the racist shitbag has goolies or not.


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 12, 2011)

allybaba said:


> heres the fight one of their 'angels' got punched in the face.




I don't think she was targeted deliberately. Just got in the way while the little guy was having all those EDL hardmen wankers. He was facing the biggest EDL guy when it happened.

The video is mad. 2 asian guys, game as fuck, one of them quite short, steam into about 30 EDL outside the court after the racist divs give it the biggun from behind the police and move forward pretending to want to have a go. The biggest EDL guy gets a real cracker on the jaw and goes flying and a melee ensues. You can’t tell from the video if the asian guys are radical muslims or just locals pissed off and reacting at having EDL thugs chanting racist abuse in their neck of the woods. I reckon they are locals as some have bikes. The usual fanatical EDL reaction in the comments on youtube is to go on about how muslims are cowards and need 60 to attack 2 EDL. A complete reversal of what the video actually shows in detail.

If you watch the full 14 minute version they all end up whining like babies to the police and spouting racist spew. A real bunch of sad racist mugs who need to fuck off back to the sewer.

Here's another version of the video


----------



## Ranbay (May 12, 2011)

More 2020 stuff.... LOL


----------



## Ranbay (May 12, 2011)

Why the EDL isn’t a Human Rights Organisation

http://tweetsrhymesandlife.wordpress.com/2011/05/12/why-the-edl-isnt-a-human-rights-organisation/


----------



## Ranbay (May 12, 2011)

Whoops... etc


----------



## audiotech (May 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Why the EDL isn’t a Human Rights Organisation.



More to do with this fella and his 'final solution'.

http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/06/03/alan-lakes-edl-final-solution/


----------



## audiotech (May 13, 2011)

Meanwhile, there's been a takeover on the 'Jewish Defence League' facebook page.

The new admin are stating that one of the people running it was only 'claiming to be a Jew and wasn't even an EDL member'?

The new admin suggest that the old admin do something constructive with their time now like 'help an old lady with her groceries' and 'generally make the world a better place'.


----------



## Ranbay (May 14, 2011)

> English Defence League (EDL)
> Tommy & another Admin have indeed been arrested in Lyon as they supported our French Brothers protesting against the contiued spread of Islamisim in France. We do not have ahuge amount of info but we have heard that Muslims tried to attack demonstration and police were dispersing tear gas. They arrested a large number of French Patriots along with Tommy. NS



facebooks


----------



## _angel_ (May 14, 2011)

youtube links


----------



## audiotech (May 14, 2011)

Sounds like a meet-up with the "Identity Block,” “Identity Block” is an assortment of mostly French right-wing groups. They describe themselves as a “resistance to the Islamization of France".

I believe this is some of 'em?


----------



## audiotech (May 14, 2011)

Tommy could have stumbled across a similar flashmob to this in Lyon however?


----------



## Ranbay (May 14, 2011)

Nice mates

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloc_identitaire


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2011)

for those who said that the anti-gay stickers in TH were the work of the EDL, etc and even seemed to wish it was so, a man has now been convicted, (only one twat) and its unlikely he is a member/supporter of the EDL...

http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory...rged-over-hateful-gay-free-zone-stickers.aspx


----------



## manny-p (May 15, 2011)

treelover said:


> for those who said that the anti-gay stickers in TH were the work of the EDL, etc and even seemed to wish it was so, a man has now been convicted, (only one twat) and its unlikely he is a member/supporter of the EDL...
> 
> http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory...rged-over-hateful-gay-free-zone-stickers.aspx





> Mohammed Hasnath, of Leamouth, Tower Hamlets


 I would say he is defo not in the edl


----------



## Corax (May 15, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I would say he is defo not in the edl


 
Why not?  The EDL aren't a racist organisation you know, they're a human rights organisation engaged in peaceful protest against extremism.


----------



## Ranbay (May 15, 2011)

some ace commnets about The Big Question on BBC this am...


----------



## _angel_ (May 15, 2011)

.


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2011)

at Corax, why make light of a serious incident, I'm not defending the EDL, far from it, but a number of leftists and others seemed very keen to see this as a kind of mini 'false flag operation as it were,

 this is what I posted in reply to a repost from an article in the far left media which made this increasingly defunct and bizaare contortion

''It looks to me like the EDL was trying to use the gays as cannon fodder against muslims.


That was from a Trot blog yes, so the moral and political contortions continue: they and others seem determined to the point of delusion that the anti-gay stickers, 'Gay Free Zone' etc are being posted by agent provocateurs trying to stir up trouble, they would never never give that sort of leeway, if they, say, spot far right stickers on a council estate. Why can't they accept that far right Islamists are active in TH, etc may be posting up such crap/ It is very possible/likely they are, but these elements of the left seem to believe Muslims aren't capable of such behaviour, a very racist assumption, in many ways.

Interesting how now the street oppostion to the EDl is flagging, sneers seem to be utilised as a weapon, no fan of them but hundreds of thousands of people share their views, best to engage them politically...'


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2011)

and yes, afawk it was only one loser....


----------



## Corax (May 15, 2011)

I don't think I made light of it, I just used the idea that a name such as Mohammed Hasnath was unlikely to be EDL as a hook for the absurdity of their 'official' position in the face of practical reality.

Lots of leftists did take the position you're referring to yes, because there are a lot on the left (just like everywhere else on the spectrum) that have a very simplistic and monochrome view of the world.  It's one of the main reasons why I'm not associated with any organised groups - I don't see the point as I don't hold any hope whatsoever for them generating any real political change in this country.  I do get involved on specific issues from time to time mind, as on single issues it still seems possible for public dissent to make a difference now and again.

My idealism was hogtied, gutted, and butchered by the depressing realities of a western capitalist system a long time ago.  I now content myself with poking fun on the internets for my own (and very, very occasionally other people's) entertainment.


----------



## audiotech (May 15, 2011)

treelover said:


> for those who said that the anti-gay stickers in TH were the work of the EDL, etc and even seemed to wish it was so, a man has now been convicted, (only one twat) and its unlikely he is a member/supporter of the EDL...
> 
> http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory...rged-over-hateful-gay-free-zone-stickers.aspx



He has been arrested, charged and released on bail and not "convicted" as yet knumbnuts. You're as bad as these 'lefties' you claim 'seemed to wish it was so'.


----------



## emanymton (May 15, 2011)

treelover said:


> I'm not defending the EDL,


No? but you manage to post several times on an EDL thread without one word of criticism of them.


----------



## manny-p (May 15, 2011)

emanymton said:


> No? but you manage to post several times on an EDL thread without one word of criticism of them.


 
Get a grip.


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2011)

bizzarro, because many long time posters on here don't feel the need for condemnathoms, just look for solutions, like some did with the IWCA..


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2011)

@Audio

I stand corrected, only charged and innocent until, etc...


----------



## Ranbay (May 15, 2011)

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/...87083047_100002017690415_213158_2849958_o.jpg

From the paper today....


----------



## treelover (May 16, 2011)

Some of the other soldiers in Helmand will be very angry indeed at the EDL Supporters/Fellow Travellers, it will be used by the Jihadis as propaganda, they know it will lead to more bombs coming their way.


----------



## The Black Hand (May 17, 2011)

EDL in the North East - FAIL! http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...ence_League_target_Darlington_mosque/?ref=rss

The EDL are just a pissed up group of lonely sad arse racists with nothing better to do.


----------



## _angel_ (May 17, 2011)

.


----------



## Corax (May 17, 2011)

The Black Hand said:


> EDL in the North East - FAIL! http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...ence_League_target_Darlington_mosque/?ref=rss
> 
> The EDL are just a pissed up group of lonely sad arse racists with nothing better to do.


 
Some of the comments are a joy to read.



> Darlington is a harmonious place to live and people get along here and live alongside each other peacefully. We DO NOT need the likes of EDL racists, who come from outside the town of Darlington and to deliberately stir up and cause trouble for 'local' residents and the community of Darlington. You are not needed, nor wanted here.


----------



## Gingerman (May 19, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.lep.co.uk/lifestyle/culture/edl_to_demo_at_comedy_gig_1_3358290
> 
> About the EDL demo at Russell Howard gig... lol


http://www.twitpic.com/4z07c8


----------



## _angel_ (May 19, 2011)

.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (May 19, 2011)

lusty.


----------



## Fingers (May 19, 2011)

Roberta and Robert trying to justify hooking up with a Jewish terrorist organisation

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/438/6174385525.png


----------



## Fingers (May 19, 2011)

This is interesting, this EDL blog purports to show a christian getting burnt in Egypt

http://twitpic.com/4zlr7k

When in actual fact it is a protest by Maggy Delvaux, who was protesting in Belgium against racism

Cunts


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 19, 2011)

Did anyone see that Chorley EDL surrended by not protesting the Russell Howard gig there the other day?  They pull the Chorley protest page after massive trolling by anti-EDL types


----------



## _angel_ (May 19, 2011)

I reckon the edl would be quite pleased with this thread, getting to 90 pages!


----------



## Gingerman (May 19, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> I reckon the edl would be quite pleased with this thread, getting to 90 pages!


 What? A thread that shows them up to be a bunch of muppets ?


----------



## _angel_ (May 19, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> What? A thread that shows them up to be a bunch of muppets ?


 
The attention they're getting is what they want.


----------



## Ranbay (May 19, 2011)

some EDL read this thread, some even post in it


----------



## Corax (May 19, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> some EDL read this thread, some even post in it


 
NFSE!! Sport are trupes!!!


----------



## Ranbay (May 19, 2011)




----------



## _angel_ (May 19, 2011)

.


----------



## love detective (May 20, 2011)

spinoza/sun tan lotion


----------



## revlon (May 20, 2011)

bit of a set to in barking this evening 25 edl turn up at an anti-fascist meeting (am assuming it's the uaf defend multi-culturalism one). Meeting went ahead unhindered but around seven stewards had to defend the door against 25 edl trying to get in. 

No more detail.


----------



## The39thStep (May 20, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




The sort of well meaning and fairly knowledgeable chap who you would soon tell to fuck off if he engaged with you in a pub as he became boring


----------



## embree (May 20, 2011)

revlon said:


> bit of a set to in barking this evening 25 edl turn up at an anti-fascist meeting (am assuming it's the uaf defend multi-culturalism one). Meeting went ahead unhindered but around seven stewards had to defend the door against 25 edl trying to get in.
> 
> No more detail.


 
Infidels threat to attack and disrupt 'reds'

http : / / casualsunited.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/whose-streets-by-snowy-reblogged/


----------



## Ranbay (May 20, 2011)

revlon said:


> bit of a set to in barking this evening 25 edl turn up at an anti-fascist meeting (am assuming it's the uaf defend multi-culturalism one). Meeting went ahead unhindered but around seven stewards had to defend the door against 25 edl trying to get in.
> 
> No more detail.



http://uaf.org.uk/2011/05/edl-teams-up-with-bnp-to-attack-antiracist-meeting-in-barking/


----------



## Fingers (May 20, 2011)

Heh, Salisbury Div have been hacked by ZHC

http://www.facebook.com/pages/English-Defence-League-EDL-Salisbury-Division/145784652136823


----------



## Ranbay (May 20, 2011)

Even better.....

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_201788219855761


----------



## Fingers (May 20, 2011)

lol, look at this, good grief

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=130982053645717&set=o.201788219855761&type=1&theater


----------



## jakethesnake (May 21, 2011)

Fingers said:


> lol, look at this, good grief
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=130982053645717&set=o.201788219855761&type=1&theater


 The master race!


----------



## revlon (May 21, 2011)

wrong one


----------



## revlon (May 21, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://uaf.org.uk/2011/05/edl-teams-up-with-bnp-to-attack-antiracist-meeting-in-barking/


 
we'll get 'em back for that. By laughing harder at their facebook updates


----------



## jakethesnake (May 22, 2011)

revlon said:


> we'll get 'em back for that. By laughing harder at their facebook updates


 And kicking their cunts in.


----------



## Ranbay (May 25, 2011)

Guramit Singh quit or something?

not real been keeping up as im working away and stuff like.


----------



## Corax (May 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Guramit Singh quit or something?
> 
> not real been keeping up as im working away and stuff like.


 
Where do you read to 'keep up'?


----------



## Ranbay (May 25, 2011)

Twitter if im away, follow most of the exspose crew init.

but only read this and that etc.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 25, 2011)

Yep, Guramit has gorn: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=131972920213720&set=o.145019135549768&type=1&ref=nf

....due to an "ill grandmother" - shades of Eddy Morrison telling porkies about having a dying mum when he was really too pissed to run the White Nationalist Party.  Never mind, at least the EDL can now happily and frrely target all Siklhs and Hindus as "Muslims".


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2011)

OK, a bit of background for this one. the EDl are protesting in Blackpool on Saturday about the disappearance of Charlene Downs, a school girl who may or may not have been served as a kebab by muslims.

The EDL are basically jumping on this girl's cause as a way to promote themselves and make a bit of dosh for the various coke habits of the leadership. Three EDL girls have already arranged a fight (see screenshot) so zero respect is being shown to the Downes family, they are just there for a beered up fight

The three girls are

Donna Mortimer - EDL Press Officer
Hel Gower, ex C18, NF and BNP - PA to Gumarit Kermit (ex EDL token 'darkie')
Mel peterborough Angel - not sure of her role
Lyn Saddington - Ex bigwig who stalked a local radio DJ and received an injuction to keep away from him.

Take it away ladies

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/445/4011768563.jpg


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 26, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Yep, Guramit has gorn: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=131972920213720&set=o.145019135549768&type=1&ref=nf
> 
> ....due to an "ill grandmother" - shades of Eddy Morrison telling porkies about having a dying mum when he was really too pissed to run the White Nationalist Party.  Never mind, at least the EDL can now happily and frrely target all Siklhs and Hindus as "Muslims".


 
"you're not singhing anymore" (not my gag but worth sharing). This departure marks another farcical episode. Problem is the diehards are so thick that their memories don't last very long. After the Blackburn fiasco and splits followed by the St Georges Day Facebook takedowns they always seem to bounce back, to their FB timewasting and silly so called "flashmobs",  but I daresay there are fewer of them.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/445/4011768563.jpg


 
Interesting reference to *"the allergation [sic] that Michael has claimed about young angels at marks [sic] house"*...

Mark Robinson presumably.  Any ideas who he is Fingers/Bob/anyone?


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2011)

He is an ex copper (or claims to be an ex copper, his level of English suggests otherwise.) He is about as vile as they come and refers to muslims as sub human (a phrase he has lifted from the nazis) That is about as much as I know about him but i am wondering if there is another paedo coverup going on.


----------



## _angel_ (May 26, 2011)

.


----------



## audiotech (May 26, 2011)

'EDL Vs MDL banter page'

https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-Vs-MDL-banter-page/190980607608220


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> youtube links


 


_angel_ said:


> youtube links


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2011)

The bitch fight continues into another day

http://twitpic.com/52p7hn


----------



## manny-p (May 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> The bitch fight continues into another day
> 
> http://twitpic.com/52p7hn


 
Why you posting this shite?


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Why you posting this shite?


 
I often wonder the same


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

I dont wonder carry on.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

It's amusing.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> It's amusing.


 
No it isn't.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

I rather think that, given the evidence above, that may be a subjective matter.


----------



## emanymton (May 26, 2011)

Incidentally, I believe that Charlene Downs parents are ex NF.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Haters goan hate.


----------



## audiotech (May 26, 2011)

One factor to consider with reference to amusement value? This thread has had over 63,000 views.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

audiotech said:


> One factor to consider with reference to amusement value? This thread has had over 63,000 views.


 
Mostly bob tbf.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

yeah i'm at least half them views, the other half are, well go figure.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Fingers


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Hel Gower


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

The Fuzz


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

This is what I don't understand tbh. You have managed to make a fairly obscure veteran nazi secretary a household name, at least amongst a very small band of people. These people don't matter. They are irrelevant to why the far right has social and political capital. Why make minor celebrities out of a bunch of fuckwits off facebook?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

yeah i know mad init


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

would this cheer you up or something?


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

At best utterly pointless and ineffective and at worst counter-productive. But hey ho, least you are having fun Bob.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Me? yeah i am, just cooking a nice curry and burning a DVD... 

thanks for asking tho bro.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

My pleasure.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Safe


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

I look forward to Hel Gower's appearance on Dancing on Ice in the near future.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

PT - There's a serious side to dealing with the EDL, but I don't see anything wrong with a bit of pointing and laughing either.  They're not getting any 'publicity' from being referenced on a fairly niche Brixton based BB.

On the plus side, when I meet people like my ex-dealer that have no serious convictions but like to ally themselves with the likes of the BNP/EDl etc, ridiculing their allegiances whilst wearing a smile has often proved the most constructive way of handling them.  The point and laugh stuff gives me plenty of ammunition for that.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> PT - There's a serious side to dealing with the EDL, but I don't see anything wrong with a bit of pointing and laughing either.  They're not getting any 'publicity' from being referenced on a fairly niche Brixton based BB.



Oh.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Oh.


 
I'm not convinced that searching for their name and subsequently finding results constitutes publicity.  Publicity is more along the lines of when things are brought to people's attention _without_ them actively searching for them.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> I'm not convinced that searching for their name and subsequently finding results constitutes publicity.  Publicity is more along the lines of when things are brought to people's attention _without_ them actively searching for them.


 
The point I was making is that this thread is on the first page of results.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

So we are now all famous also?

cool


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Would you call yourself an antifascist bob? Or just in it for the shits and giggles?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

yeah


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

The former, the latter, or both?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

yes


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

And what is your social life like?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Shit i spend 24/7 reading EDL posts, i dont do anything else. 

not slept for 8 weeks now.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Still, your curry can't be far off now


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Already had it,

PS im not going out with you.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

That was quick. Was it a microwave jobby?

Good. I'd fear the convo might get dull.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

http://www.123curry.co.uk


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.123curry.co.uk


 
Bargain. Good post.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Wow i can sleep now i have posted something you like. Took me 5 years.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

You're welcome.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Do you like bad parking photos?


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

I'm not sure. Perhaps you should post some.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

uploading them now.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Good man.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/316605-I-Can-t-Park-I-m-a-Prick


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Excellent stuff Bob. Well done mate.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> The point I was making is that this thread is on the first page of results.


 
That's not publicity for them though.  It simply doesn't matter.

If someone searched for Urban75, and the first results were to do with Yaxley-Lennon or whoever, then that would be a different thing.  But doing it the other way round isn't the same, and doesn't mean jack.

I do wonder if you're one of those that frown upon any sort of frivolity when it comes to matters of politics/the fash/bigotry/etc, and that's really the root of your objection?


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

I didn't mention publicity as such, you've read that between the lines. It's more the building up of a cult around a few people on the far right amongst antiracists/antifascists, as if it is these few people who are responsible for the continued development and entrenchment of the far right, leading to a warped view of how to challenge this development and entrenchment, when in reality these people really don't fucking matter - what matters is addressing the grievances and disillusion which creates the latent support for the far right. I'm aware this isn't so amusing, of course.

The expose shit mostly won't bother them you know. It's a fucking ego trip.


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2011)

here is another load of shite to piss off Proper Tidy

http://twitpic.com/52vhhu

Seems it is not just the girls who will be kicking off on Saturday.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

fap fap fap


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> I didn't mention publicity as such, you've read that between the lines. It's more the building up of a cult around a few people on the far right amongst antiracists/antifascists, as if it is these few people who are responsible for the continued development and entrenchment of the far right, leading to a warped view of how to challenge this development and entrenchment, when in reality these people really don't fucking matter


 The only bit I disagree on at all is the 'building up a cult' bit.  They're being ridiculed, not lauded.



Proper Tidy said:


> The expose shit mostly won't bother them you know. It's a fucking ego trip.


Of course it won't generally.  It's for the lulz, that's all.



Proper Tidy said:


> what matters is addressing the grievances and disillusion which creates the latent support for the far right. I'm aware this isn't so amusing, of course.


Yeah, this is that 'disapproving of frivolity' thing I mentioned.  You're quite right of course.  There's a whole set of discussions around Labour deserting their traditional territory and leaving a vacuum, liberal middle-class scorn of the wwc, control and abuse of the media to stir up hatred, many many things.  I've spent time talking (fruitlessly) to my local candidates and councillors about these kinds of issues, and if the EDL ever actually turn up for the rally they're 16 months late for down here (they promised Jan 10), then I'd be considering what action to take then as well.

But it's not a zero-sum game.  Taking the piss does not rule out serious consideration as well.  And this attitude, a red version of being holier-than-thou, which is unfortunately so prevalent on the left, serves only to alienate allies and support.

For clarity - That last sentence is a general observation.  I'm not for one moment accusing you specifically either of characterising that attitude other than in this instance, or of alienating anyone.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> here is another load of shite to piss off Proper Tidy
> 
> http://twitpic.com/52vhhu
> 
> Seems it is not just the girls who will be kicking off on Saturday.


 
You are not pissing me off. I'm just trying to encourage you to waste less of your lives on a completely pointless exercise.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> The only bit I disagree on at all is the 'building up a cult' bit.  They're being ridiculed, not lauded.
> 
> 
> Of course it won't generally.  It's for the lulz, that's all.
> ...


 
Except this thread is an example of mainsteam antifascism. It isn't some 'amusing' diversion from antifascism now and again. It is what actually passes for antifascism. And it won't, can't, ever, do fuck all.


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2011)

Who actually asked you to encourage me to do anything? Who on earth are you anyway?

In the seven years I have been posting, I have never come across someone so tedious and whiney, I habe had to put them on ignore. Well done Proper Tidy.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Except this thread is an example of mainsteam antifascism. It isn't some 'amusing' diversion from antifascism now and again. It is what actually passes for antifascism. And it won't, can't, ever, do fuck all.


 
How on earth can a thread on Urban75 _'be'_ antifacism?


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> tedious and whiney


 
Quite.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

I'm not sure why he assumes i give a fuck what he thinks to be honest?

but if he's happy to follow me about this thread telling me i'm wasting my time, then the joke is on him as he is wasting his time, refer to point 1.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> How on earth can a thread on Urban75 _'be'_ antifacism?


 


Proper Tidy said:


> Except this thread is an example of mainsteam antifascism.



HTH


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

You lot don't do politics do you?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

I don't do anything, we covered that in post 2289


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I'm not sure why he assumes i give a fuck what he thinks to be honest?
> 
> but if he's happy to follow me about this thread telling me i'm wasting my time, then the joke is on him as he is wasting his time, refer to point 1.



I don't have any idea who he even is, never mind granting him permission to tell me things for my own good.  What is wrong with him?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)




----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

It's cute really. Do you all meet up on Xbox live?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Nope to busy on the internet.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

we covered that in post 2301


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> You lot don't do politics do you?


 
This is the sanctimonious bullshit I referred to, that achieves nothing but alienating people.

'My' antifascism consist of talking to people, in the flesh.  People who aren't already antifascists, which most members of this community are in one form or another.  If you think that bulletin board threads are somehow ever going send the fash scuttling back to their hole then you're just deluded.

If you don't like the posts on thread, you're under no obligation to read it.  Save your finger muscles, and just don't click on it.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

EDL iz srs bsns.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> This is the sanctimonious bullshit I referred to, that achieves nothing but alienating people.



The irony of this.



Corax said:


> 'My' antifascism consist of talking to people, in the flesh.  People who aren't already antifascists, which most members of this community are in one form or another.  If you think that bulletin board threads are somehow ever going send the fash scuttling back to their hole then you're just deluded.


 
I suspect if you really did talk to people, in the flesh, who weren't already antifascist or antiracist, then you would have a better idea of why all this is shit.



Corax said:


> If you don't like the posts on thread, you're under no obligation to read it.  Save your finger muscles, and just don't click on it.



Amusingly, this is also what the far right say to the liberals who stalk their facebook pages.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

Amusingly it's common fucking sense.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

What is?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

yeah


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

One day, Bob, you will smite the whole EDL and I will eat my words


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2011)

one day you will stop all posts in this thread or something and eveyone will say how "cool" you are .... etc


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> one day you will stop all posts in this thread


 
Hopefully


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> The irony of this.


Sorry, I don't follow.  Could you explain?



Proper Tidy said:


> I suspect if you really did talk to people, in the flesh, who weren't already antifascist or antiracist, then you would have a better idea of why all this is shit.


Do you honestly think that my social circle, as an NHS manager, in godforsaken Southampton, doesn't include a large number of people with fairly misguided and erroneous opinions on race and immigration?



Proper Tidy said:


> Amusingly, this is also what the far right say to the liberals who stalk their facebook pages.


That's a _ridiculously_ irrelevant comparison.


----------



## Proper Tidy (May 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> Sorry, I don't follow.  Could you explain?



I could, although it isn't anything else that hasn't been said on here on many occasions.



Corax said:


> Do you honestly think that my social circle, as an NHS manager, in godforsaken Southampton, doesn't include a large number of people with fairly misguided and erroneous opinions on race and immigration?



Corax, you're alright, but yeah, that is precisely what I think.




Corax said:


> That's a _ridiculously_ irrelevant comparison.


 
It isn't. It is an apolitical response when far righters say 'if you don't like it don't read it' and it is an apolitical response here.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Corax, you're alright, but yeah, that is precisely what I think.


Not a bloody chance.  I'm not saying I'm surrounded by swastika-inked NF by any means.  But what I am surrounded by are 
a) wwc lads who like the idea of being a 'patriot', enjoy the cameraderie, and think that ethnic minorities are jumping ahead in the housing queue etc, and
b) Middle-class liberals and tories who "aren't racist but" think that immigration has gone too far, the people serving in Polish shops pretend not to speak English because they don't want you in there, white people can't get jobs because employers have to meet ethnic quotas and so on.

That's what I have in front of me, so that's what I combat.



Proper Tidy said:


> It isn't. It is an apolitical response when far righters say 'if you don't like it don't read it' and it is an apolitical response here.


In the first instance it's a response to someone finding something offensive.  So what is it that you find offensive about the point-and-laugh stuff on this thread?


----------



## The39thStep (May 27, 2011)

Come on boys and girls , watching this is like watching the EDL fall apart on the net or those Royal correspondents you get on the media who never have met the Royal family but comment on them from afar.


----------



## Das Uberdog (May 27, 2011)

Nothing wrong with keeping up to date on what the EDL are doing, as a compliment to your political activity. Which is what this thread was designed to do.

Here's an article by the Guardian mistaking the de-centralisation and breakup of the EDL with a movement away from parliamentary politics in lieu of the collapse of the BNP.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/27/far-right-attacks-rise


----------



## ddraig (May 27, 2011)

PT fwiw I saw and spoke to Bob when the wdl/edl tried to do their thing in Cardiff
he was there with a group of people i think he brought along
so he wasn't behind his pc and also knew the docks/sharp boys who only just got stopped from tearing a minibus full of fash to shreds
so, ime/o he is not the sad case you are making out and does not just 'publicise' the edl bleetings


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2011)

If i was a few stone lighter i would have made it to the minbus 

you where on your bike


----------



## revlon (May 27, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> Nothing wrong with keeping up to date on what the EDL are doing, as a compliment to your political activity. Which is what this thread was designed to do.
> 
> Here's an article by the Guardian mistaking the de-centralisation and breakup of the EDL with a movement away from parliamentary politics in lieu of the collapse of the BNP.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/may/27/far-right-attacks-rise


 
except when edl do something in real life - barking attack, not a murmur. When billy no mates posts up something a bit weird on his facebook page we get six pages of bob2009 going


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://uaf.org.uk/2011/05/edl-teams-up-with-bnp-to-attack-antiracist-meeting-in-barking/


 
yeah i never posted anything about it....


----------



## Corax (May 27, 2011)

I really don't understand some people's desire to control what other people choose to post.

It seems a bit, oh, what's the word...?


----------



## skitr (May 27, 2011)

revlon said:


> except when edl do something in real life - barking attack, not a murmur. When billy no mates posts up something a bit weird on his facebook page we get six pages of bob2009 going


 
Nice.


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2011)

Corax said:


> I really don't understand some people's desire to control what other people choose to post.
> 
> It seems a bit, oh, what's the word...?


 
Just makes me want to post more stuff to fuck them off if I'm honest  Too busy with Study at the moment tho.


----------



## Corax (May 27, 2011)

Whilst I'm all for anything that pisses the fash off and disrupts their plans, I find the practice of warning people that they may be 'proactively' arrested to avoid BotP pretty abhorrent on principle...


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2011)

Jeffrey


----------



## revlon (May 27, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah i never posted anything about it....


 
yes but what are your views on the matter? What does it mean, what can be done about it? Is it a small crew of essex edl growing in confidence, or is it something else? Where did they come from? What is their relationship to the bnp in the area? Does any one know? 

These i imagine is what the edl watch thread was set up to address. Not the fact that EDL4EVA has access to the internet.


----------



## Corax (May 27, 2011)

revlon said:


> These i imagine is what the edl watch thread was set up to address. Not the fact that EDL4EVA has access to the internet.


 
Das set the thread up, and from his post above seems perfectly fine with how it is.

The controlfreakery on here is astounding.


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2011)

Cool story Bro. @ revlon


----------



## Corax (May 27, 2011)




----------



## revlon (May 27, 2011)

Corax said:


> Das set the thread up, and from his post above seems perfectly fine with how it is.
> 
> The controlfreakery on here is astounding.


 

post no1 by Das: 



> Thought I'd just start a thread to compile all my posts about the EDL, seeing as almost all my recent threads have been related to them. Who knows; if it takes off, it might become a sticky?
> 
> I've just heard that the EDL have up-turned a UAF stall in Oldham. No report I've found from UAF yet, but I imagine there'll be some 'Oldham UAF activists saw off the EDL on Sunday' headling coming soon. Anyone heard anything?



Anyone heard anything?


----------



## butchersapron (May 27, 2011)

What you lot doing then?


----------



## Corax (May 27, 2011)

An insider estimate of their actual numbers:


----------



## Corax (May 28, 2011)

It repeatedly strikes me that the energy and anger of many of these individuals could be put to far better use.  Sure, there are certainly a fair few deep-down racists that really do hate all muslims/foreigners/non-whites.  But there also seem to be a lot who are just dissatisfied at their lives, their prospects, and the treatment of their community, enjoy the bonding, and find the idea of being a 'patriot' emotionally stirring.

There really doesn't seem to be any equivalent street movement on the left.

Is the idea of a 'red' EDL just really cynical and manipulative?


----------



## The39thStep (May 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> Whilst I'm all for anything that pisses the fash off and disrupts their plans, I find the practice of warning people that they may be 'proactively' arrested to avoid BotP pretty abhorrent on principle...


 
Would be the least of my worries to be honest . Despite UAFs 'police protect the nazis' chant the Police sem to have had more of an affect of wearing down the EDL than the professional anti fascists


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2011)

http://twitter.com/#!/LancsPolice

Today's Blackpool Demo info.


----------



## albionism (May 28, 2011)

According to the above link...1200 EDL....50 UAF.....Sad and disheartening if true.... Mind you, 
that police woman is really rather cute, so that cheered me up a bit.


----------



## Fingers (May 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> Das set the thread up, and from his post above seems perfectly fine with how it is.
> 
> The controlfreakery on here is astounding.



Quite.


----------



## peterkro (May 28, 2011)

albionism said:


> According to the above link...1200 EDL....50 UAF.....Sad and disheartening if true.... Mind you,
> that police woman is really rather cute, so that cheered me up a bit.



That policewoman is at best fifteen years old.


----------



## albionism (May 28, 2011)

Nah  24/25 ish


----------



## Fingers (May 28, 2011)

Five arrests already for D&D and public disorder, so much for showing respect for Charlene


----------



## albionism (May 28, 2011)

Surely there can't be just 50 people opposing the twats.


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2011)

now they say Around 1,500 EDL and 32 UAF demonstrators are now in Blackpool LOL


----------



## peterkro (May 28, 2011)

albionism said:


> Nah  24/25 ish



It's probably more about how old I am rather than how young she is.


----------



## emanymton (May 28, 2011)

albionism said:


> Surely there can't be just 50 people opposing the twats.


In Blackpool, yep. Unlike the EDL, UAF only does local mobilisations and there is nothing in Blackpool at all. The UAF there will be from Manchester and the rest of Lancashire


----------



## Fingers (May 28, 2011)

Oh joy, I am hearing rumours that Derek Fender (lightbulb thief) has been twatted in Blackpool


----------



## Fingers (May 28, 2011)

Looks like Fender has been stabbed

http://twitpic.com/53o1kf


----------



## Corax (May 28, 2011)

albionism said:


> According to the above link...1200 EDL....50 UAF.....Sad and disheartening if true.... Mind you,
> that police woman is really rather cute, so that cheered me up a bit.


 


albionism said:


> Surely there can't be just 50 people opposing the twats.


 
There was a lot of opinion going about that this particular demo should go unopposed.  It was *nominally* a demonstration against paedophilia, and so mounting a counter-demo gives the EDL the opportunity of claiming that the UAF defends nonces.


----------



## where to (May 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> There was a lot of opinion going about that this particular demo should go unopposed.  It was *nominally* a demonstration against paedophilia, and so mounting a counter-demo gives the EDL the opportunity of claiming that the UAF defends nonces.


 
you mean the UAF stopped to actually think through the meaning and consequences of their demo?


----------



## Kippa (May 29, 2011)

I am from Blackpool and heard that there was going to be a demonstration about in relation to a murderd girl.  I didn't realise the EDL would be here.  I was actually going out of Blackpool on the day via the town centre.  I have never seen so many police in Blackpool at one time, there seemed to be more police here then when there is a party poltical conference.  As I passed the train station there were like 20 police vans all parked up.  I am concered about the EDL, they seem to be very well organised.  I have to admit I don't know that much about them.  I know the BNP is a political party, is the EDL just an informal organisation?


----------



## Fingers (May 29, 2011)

They have aspirations of being political but there are too many fuckwits running it to be sucessful.

Meanwhile Bolton Division have been hacked

http://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-Bolton-Division-official-fanpage/125673884167261


----------



## josef1878 (May 29, 2011)

They are a bit late in the day for their 'justice for charlene' shite. Must be running out of days out. It'll be justice for Rudolph Hess next. March to Spandau coach leaves Friday.


----------



## _angel_ (May 30, 2011)

Kippa said:


> I am from Blackpool and heard that there was going to be a demonstration about in relation to a murderd girl.  I didn't realise the EDL would be here.  I was actually going out of Blackpool on the day via the town centre.  I have never seen so many police in Blackpool at one time, there seemed to be more police here then when there is a party poltical conference.  As I passed the train station there were like 20 police vans all parked up.  I am concered about the EDL, they seem to be very well organised.  I have to admit I don't know that much about them.  I know the BNP is a political party, is the EDL just an informal organisation?


 
It's not a political party.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (May 30, 2011)

josef1878 said:


> They are a bit late in the day for their 'justice for charlene' shite. Must be running out of days out. *It'll be justice for Rudolph Hess next. March to Spandau coach leaves Friday*.


 
LOL!


----------



## Fingers (May 30, 2011)

Meanwhile, Pigman's antics ensure no more children in Blackpool are at risk

http://twitpic.com/549tf5


----------



## Corax (May 30, 2011)

Kippa said:


> I am from Blackpool and heard that there was going to be a demonstration about in relation to a murderd girl.  I didn't realise the EDL would be here.  I was actually going out of Blackpool on the day via the town centre.  I have never seen so many police in Blackpool at one time, there seemed to be more police here then when there is a party poltical conference.  As I passed the train station there were like 20 police vans all parked up.  I am concered about the EDL, they seem to be very well organised.  I have to admit I don't know that much about them.  I know the BNP is a political party, is the EDL just an informal organisation?


 
It's a "street movement" - a bunch of frustrated young men and women who collect together to get drunk and shout racist slogans at anyone who'll listen.

Although according to the EDL themselves they're a "human rights organisation"...


----------



## audiotech (May 30, 2011)

A claim that loses some weight when the EDL voice opposition to the human rights organisation, Amnesty International.


----------



## Corax (May 30, 2011)

audiotech said:


> A claim that loses some weight when...


 
Making it float up to the top of the atmosphere, in that case


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2011)

Seems a bit dead on here .Has Bob returned to taking pictures of  badly parked cars?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 2, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Seems a bit dead on here .Has Bob returned to taking pictures of  badly parked cars?



Maybe he's combined the two - gone car-spotting in Luton to "out" Yaxley-Lennon's parking skills?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2011)

Sorry im working away and doing Exams and shit, so thats more important... for now.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Sorry im working away and doing Exams and shit, so thats more important... for now.



Absolutely. What exams are you doing Bob2oo9?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2011)

National Examination Board in Occupational Safety and Health. means im out of the office 2.5 days a week, and still have 5 sites to run in the other 2.5 days.... so no time for facebook or the EDL right now.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2011)

Picture of Yaxley-Lennon standing next to a pile of coke doing the rounds, which is minor lulz.  Especially as it was released by the NWI/NEI.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 2, 2011)

Corax said:


> Picture of Yaxley-Lennon standing next to a pile of coke doing the rounds, which is minor lulz.  Especially as it was released by the NWI/NEI.



Sounds like the revenge of Snowy...isn't this the same photo that the NWI/NEI have been (allegedly) touting round to the tabloids?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 2, 2011)

Yup, EDL posted a pciture of Snowy drinking with some geezer who was wanted on Crimewatch so they released the photo of the coke pile. A couple of three grams I would say. Not sure if I am allowed to post it on here though. They claim they have some better more incriminating ones. They maybe of Yaxley Lennon with a crisp fifty up his snout.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 2, 2011)

^^^I don't think it would be wise to post it here, but has it been posted by the Expose/Still Laughing at the EDL teams over at FB?

e2a - did you see Yaxley-Lennon being interviewed by the local news teams at the Blackppol demo?  The phrase "coked off his eyeballs" comes to mind...


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> has it been posted by the Expose/Still Laughing at the EDL teams over at FB?


Yep.



MellySingsDoom said:


> ^^^I don't think it would be wise to post it here


Why not?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 2, 2011)

Corax - dunno, probably me being a bit paranoid, but would the mods be a bit "you can't do that here!" with that?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 2, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> ^^^I don't think it would be wise to post it here, but has it been posted by the Expose/Still Laughing at the EDL teams over at FB?
> 
> e2a - did you see Yaxley-Lennon being interviewed by the local news teams at the Blackppol demo?  The phrase "coked off his eyeballs" comes to mind...[/QUOTE)
> Yeah it was posted yesterday evening on SLATEDL so you may have to scroll back a bit. I tend to avoid his interviews he bores me and rants about the same old crap


----------



## Fingers (Jun 2, 2011)

I am sure a link to the picture would do no harm though
http://exposingon.tumblr.com/


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Corax - dunno, probably me being a bit paranoid, but would the mods be a bit "you can't do that here!" with that?



Wouldn't have thought so tbh.

Not that I can be arsed to do so personally - it's easily found on twitter, the Expose blog etc, and isn't anything that exciting to see.  Steven Yaxley-Lennon standing in a kitchen, and some coke on the counter beside him.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2011)

Fingers said:
			
		

> Yeah it was posted yesterday evening on SLATEDL so you may have to scroll back a bit. I tend to avoid his interviews he bores me and rants about the same old crap


He's certainly a dull little lad.  With all the reich speeches I'm sure he's watched, you would have thought he'd have picked up a few tips on oration by now.


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 2, 2011)

Moar fun from the EDLulz


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 2, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Moar fun from the EDLulz




'Christianity State', protects you from Muslamic Rayguns.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2011)

The EDL are not linked to the BNP.

Jordan Pont, Yorkshire EDL member and BNP candidate for Woodhouse.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2011)

Oh, and fan of Skrewdriver.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2011)

LOL under favourite books on his facebook it says "don't read books". No shit Jordan.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2011)

THE EDL WILL BE PROTESTING IN TOWER HAMLETS

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=223430981018038

MORE INFO AND A CONFIRMED DATE TO FOLLOW


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2011)

that'll go well.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 2, 2011)

This thread should be in general. I'm sure it started with good intentions but it's just descended into facebook lolz.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2011)

It's about "protest, direct action and demos", whether or not it fits people's desire for P&P to be srs bsns.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2011)

That's a link to the demo, they posted it on facebook, if the posted it someplace else i would have added that link instead.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> THE EDL WILL BE PROTESTING IN TOWER HAMLETS
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=223430981018038
> 
> MORE INFO AND A CONFIRMED DATE TO FOLLOW


 cheers


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2011)

I wouldn't get too prepared though.  They promised a big demo down this way for January 2010.  I'm still drumming my fingers impatiently.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 3, 2011)

Five things could happen:

1) They will get proscribed/march will be banned by then as there will be a big whipping up of hatred beforehand (See their reaction to the TH announcement today)

2) About 1,500 will turn up and be caged in an out of the way car park by eight foot steel barriers and they will fight each other and the media will largely ignore them.

3) A load of EDL get coke/Stellard up try and take on the local youth and will get their arses handed to them on a plate. Media will run full pages on what far right vile cunts they are.

4) Tommy will get nicked for being a cunt.

5) Tower Hamlets will reduce their energy bill because Derek Fender has stolen all their lightbulbs

either way this has got EDL PR disaster written all over it.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 3, 2011)

Feel free to add.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 3, 2011)

This is worth a look, Batty Berta goes on an incoherent rant after an unfavourable article on her published today's Jewish Chronicle

http://twitpic.com/561z4m


----------



## Fingers (Jun 3, 2011)

and as if there was not enough batshit Berta craziness in one day, she starts a bloga and takes on all of her adversaries in one post
http://edlenglishdefenceleaguehijacked.blogspot.com/2011/06/exposing-hel-gower-mel-peterborough.html


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 3, 2011)

I shit you not. 

[video]http://youtu.be/k7-vWCGMuBc[/video]


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I shit you not.
> 
> [video]http://youtu.be/k7-vWCGMuBc[/video]


 
I had to turn that off.

Replace "Muslims" with "Jews" or "blacks", and what do you have?  Good old fascist garbage masquerading as "truth". Quelle surprise.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 3, 2011)

Hope it's not 27th May as i will be in Leicester.... 

However the date might be picked as they know it's likley to get a ban that weekend due to notting hill carnival.... ? then that's their excuse for not going to Tower Hamlets... who knows.


----------



## skitr (Jun 3, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> I had to turn that off.
> 
> Replace "Muslims" with "Jews" or "blacks", and what do you have?  Good old fascist garbage masquerading as "truth". Quelle surprise.


 
Yeah, it made me cringe/laugh so much, I had to turn it off.


----------



## Corax (Jun 3, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> I had to turn that off.
> 
> Replace "Muslims" with "Jews" or "blacks", and what do you have?  Good old fascist garbage masquerading as "truth". Quelle surprise.


 
I'm afraid I lolled the whole way through.  I've rarely seen such a confused pile of bollocks.

Funny how the EDL don't have any issues over race, just radical Islam.  Although you know what, I'm sure I saw a reference to Bangladeshis in there somewhere.  No no no, I must have imagined that.  They wouldn't be so stupid as to shoot their PR image in the foot like that quite so blatantly would they?  Help me out someone, I must have misread it or misconstrued it.


----------



## BlackArab (Jun 3, 2011)

I imagined a Winston Churchill poster with Tommy's face on it.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Hope it's not 27th May as i will be in Leicester....
> 
> However the date might be picked as they know it's likley to get a ban that weekend due to notting hill carnival.... ? then that's their excuse for not going to Tower Hamlets... who knows.


 
It is quite clearly surrendering without the halfwits who follow them realising they are surrendering.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2011)

*counter demos*

at their demos, the edl are escorted to and from by heavy plod, they thrive on publicity and all their publicity has been pretty negative regarding demos.  any argy bargy with counter demos gives them slightly better publicity. however they have achieved nothing politically and seem destined to bus in, stand about, get pissed and go home. is it worth turning up to counter-demo? the uaf are as ever penned in and other miliant antifascists usually stay away from any kettling possibility. and to be honest, the AFA approach may not be the best one here - tho it obviously was before against the BNP. many edl are getting bored and skint from all this, there are factions - NWI, NEI, ENA etc - all after the same followers. this is not to say ignore the threat, but like with blackpool last week, is it worth bothering at the moment? should we just wait and see if it implodes? any ideas? 
also love the idea that they are a human rights organisation - so surely they should believe in the right to worship freely for people - and also a non-profit organisation. this is because all the profits go to tommy and cocaine kev's powdery pastimes and trips abroad. anyone wanna buy a 2nd hand charleene badge? E-E-E dont care!


----------



## audiotech (Jun 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I shit you not.
> 
> [video]http://youtu.be/k7-vWCGMuBc[/video]



They're 'approving comments' now, so much for "free speech"?


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 8, 2011)

UAF Hunting Club anyone?

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480421.html


----------



## audiotech (Jun 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I shit you not.
> 
> [video]http://youtu.be/k7-vWCGMuBc[/video]


 
A copyright claim by Chrysalis Music has led to the video being removed.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2011)

yeah they used Mad World on it....


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 9, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> UAF Hunting Club anyone?
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480421.html



Yeah, they come across as little more than Combat 18 wannabes who aim to "take out" their opponents by the power of their keyboards (are they gonna use them to bash people over the head with)?  At least the rotund Charlie Sargeant got stuck in sometimes! (Even if he did inevitably end up heading pavement-bound)


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2011)

It's like an even more shit retarded redwatch by 15 yearolds or something......


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 9, 2011)

malatesta - it's perhaps telling that more than a few NWI/NEI etc etc members have showed up on Expose etc with details on Tango and Cocaine's accountancy skills, ways with the sherbert, fallings out with all and sundry, and so on.  Now that Guramit Singh has "retired", Roberta "Less, not" Moore has become ever-more vocal, embarrasing the EDL "leadership" and even beginning to wind up the rank-and-file EDL'ers - she's come close to calling the entire Jewish community in the UK "traitors"...and has the Brazilian national, Odin-worshipping Moore ever in fact visited Israel, as she claims long and loud to have done?  Questions, questions......and as an aside, one of the EDL brains trust claimed the other day that "Muzzers" (ahem) should be banned from sitting on juries in the UK, because they, uh, all follow Sharia Law and Sharia Law takes primacy over UK law (course it does!), and all "Muzzers" hate the UK.  You couldn't make it up, could you?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2011)

VIDEO: We speak to the organiser of town's English Defence League protest

http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co...ser-of-town-s-english-defence-league-protest/


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> VIDEO: We speak to the organiser of town's English Defence League protest
> 
> http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co...ser-of-town-s-english-defence-league-protest/


 
I'd be interested to hear the views of Urbanz more feminist voices on the gender politics of the EDL.

They repeatedly claim that they are standing for the rights of women, but (aside from Roberta Moore), the role of women in their organisation seems very backward and subservient to me.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2011)

Jesus thats like ten minutes drive from me.


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Jesus thats like ten minutes drive from me.


 
Well there you go then, an excuse to meet new and interesting people.  All you need is a flag and a bag full of ignorance.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2011)

As far as i know there's no counter protest


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2011)

Thinking abotu it, it's the perfect place for them to pick up supporters.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/English.Defence.League.EDL/posts/235602326453108




> English Defence League (EDL)
> Those thinking of dropping out for Dewsbury don't bother we have plans! And if you think we are going to be penned in to a little car park think again! For not allowing us to demonstrate we are going to cost you thousands chasing us all around your Muslim city acab our england our streets N/s


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2011)

I wish they'd come to Southampton like they promised.  It would give me something to do to get me out of the house at least.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 9, 2011)

Corax said:


> I wish they'd come to Southampton like they promised.  It would give me something to do to get me out of the house at least.


 
Why?


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Why?


 
Sorry - It was a flippant comment.  Anything to distract me from my life would be welcome atm.  Details in nobbin & sobbin, but not relevant to this thread.


----------



## jakethesnake (Jun 9, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> As far as i know there's no counter protest


 Are you going to organise one? The counter protest we had in Exeter was a very positive event, they've been less so in other areas though.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2011)

Not sure if I can to be honest but I've emailed some people I know


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 9, 2011)

Don't you think maybe they want people to get out and take notice of them?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2011)

It's a tricky one - the EDL certainly want opposition. It gives them more publicity and gives the street fighters a chance to have some fun. On the flip side, if there isn't a counter-demo it might end up just being EDL fighting muslims, which might give some credence to the idea that it's a race/culture war. I don't know the answer to be honest.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2011)

i dont know angel but the thought of them marching unopposed in an area ive spent all my life in makes me very upset.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2011)

In the Birmingham Mail newspaper

*English Defence League supporter from West Bromwich punched police horse eight times*

Read More http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...rse-eight-times-97319-28831228/#ixzz1Op8dcEyo


----------



## audiotech (Jun 10, 2011)

The danger is if a point is reached when it's seen as just the Asian/Muslim community opposing? That's what they would like to see.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> In the Birmingham Mail newspaper
> 
> *English Defence League supporter from West Bromwich punched police horse eight times*
> 
> Read More http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...rse-eight-times-97319-28831228/#ixzz1Op8dcEyo


 
The guy was a total and complete idiot for doing that, irrespective of his political views.  What is it about people who claim to represent "us" (of whatever political persuasion) who then behaves like violent imbeciles?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's a tricky one - the EDL certainly want opposition. It gives them more publicity and gives the street fighters a chance to have some fun. On the flip side, if there isn't a counter-demo it might end up just being EDL fighting muslims, which might give some credence to the idea that it's a race/culture war. I don't know the answer to be honest.


 
it is important to remember that the demos are mainly a piss up and a day out. they achieve nothing politically. they love getting their little faces on TV and in the news and this gives them a sort of purpose. i did post earlier here about the usefulness of counter-demos because 1/ the 2 demos are heavily policed so little 'productive confrontation' occurs and 2/ if it does go off, more publicity for the EDL which is what they want in the 1st place. so i ask other antifascists, is it worth organising against them as it actually helps them. the ones i have been to ive tended to just walk along incognito, take photos and try and document them in the blog and here etc. 
they are in a wee bit of trouble. from the 'original' leadership group: 1/ richard price, kid porn and drug conviction. 2/ snowy: booted out by tommy. 3. guramit singh resigned. 4. joel titus in jail for 18 months for violence and finally 5/ roberta more = headcase and they are depserate to distance themselves. the remaining 2 are tommy and kev and there are 2 things worrying them: the compormising phoos of tommy near drugs the infidels have threatened to expose, and 2/ calls by EDLers to be transparent over the money raised for campaigns swuch as snowy and pricey. see the malatesta blog. so along with the factions (NWI, NEI, ENA), it dont look as good as it appears on facebook. then theres tommy upcoming legal issues over fraud and demo charges. soemthings gotta give! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/edl-latest-from-february/


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 10, 2011)

> Time 16 July · 13:00 - 17:00
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ...



"Where not racist just no longer silent". Not quite as good as the classic "Sport are troops".


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 10, 2011)

How are Bob2009's exams going. I have missed his updates


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

Ah, how Ironic. Let's see how many of you lefties can figure out the irony of your little "antifascist" rants and raves. I don't think you will be able to, since you are so bone headed, allow me to do so. 

Preventing people from protesting is FASCISM. 
Preventing people from expressing free speech is FASCISM.

You are in fact, more "fascist" than the people you claim to be against. Mind you, wasn't it your beloved Stalin who killed 40,000,000. Not nearly as many as the real "Fascists".


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2011)

Is preventing people from expressing islamic fundamentalism fascism? It's preventing free speech so, according to you it is. Which makes the edl a fascist organisation, and you a fascist. Right?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> Ah, how Ironic. Let's see how many of you lefties can figure out the irony of your little "antifascist" rants and raves. I don't think you will be able to, since you are so bone headed, allow me to do so.
> 
> Preventing people from protesting is FASCISM.
> Preventing people from expressing free speech is FASCISM.
> ...


 
10 posts max
CUNT


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

Let them have their say. Nobody listens to them, especially the many Muslims I know, and call very good friends. Even they say they do it to cause a reaction, which is what they get, every single time. If nobody paid any attention to them, nobody would need to react. On the EDL, do you really believe a group of football hooligans is going to change the face of this country? They are making a point about an issue which they believe is affecting their quality of life. They have the right to do so, regardless of what you think of their views. When they start to break the laws in this country, then they should be dealt with, but as of yet, they aren't. 

I'm not a fascist, I'm a libertarian. I support no political party except common sense.


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

ddraig said:


> 10 posts max
> CUNT


 
That's not very nice is it? Though perfectly matching the mentality of every leftist I have the displeasure of meeting. It goes like this; *When we are out of logical arguments, personal insults are acceptable*

Surely, as a "man" who claims to support equality, you should know that such a term is considered derogatory to women. Or is that just another example of leftist hypocrisy, like staging fascist demonstrations against people they claim to be fascist?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> Let them have their say. Nobody listens to them, especially the many Muslims I know, and call very good friends. Even they say they do it to cause a reaction, which is what they get, every single time. If nobody paid any attention to them, nobody would need to react. On the EDL, do you really believe a group of football hooligans is going to change the face of this country? They are making a point about an issue which they believe is affecting their quality of life. They have the right to do so, regardless of what you think of their views. When they start to break the laws in this country, then they should be dealt with, but as of yet, they aren't.
> 
> I'm not a fascist, I'm a libertarian. I support no political party except common sense.


 
So do you think the edl are fascists in that they seek to restrict the freedom of speech of others or not? Let's have a clear common sense, no bullshit answer.


----------



## IC3D (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> Let them have their say. Nobody listens to them, especially the many Muslims I know, and call very good friends. Even they say they do it to cause a reaction,



So do you support their right to terrorise a community by protesting against a group that nobody listens to anyway


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> So do you think the edl are fascists in that they seek to restrict the freedom of speech of others. Let's have a clear common sense, no bullshit answer.


 
Provide me with links to where the EDL as an organisation have tried to prevent freedom of speech anywhere. Reputable news sources only, not some leftist blog.


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

IC3D said:


> So do you support their right to terrorise a community by protesting against a group that nobody listens to anyway



I'm interested to know where you feel I said I support their right to do anything that would be against the law. Actually, if you go back, you will see that I very clearly stated that they have the right to free speech within the parameters of the law. Once they start breaking the law, by attacking people or businesses, they need to be dealt with in the same way as everyone else who attacks people or businesses.

Same goes for Sikh extremists as discussed in another topic I read, same goes for student protesters, same goes for the Islamists. All are very welcome to have their say, once they start breaking the law, they should be dealt with. Simple really.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> Provide me with links to where the EDL as an organisation have tried to prevent freedom of speech anywhere. Reputable news sources only, not some leftist blog.


 
Let me see, they want to ban islamic fundamentalists from broadcasting their messages, they want to ban the building of mosques (i.e religious expression), they want to ban the burqa (freedom of cultural expression) and so on - all taken together, this clearly constitutes seeking to restrict free speech. Under your definition of fascism (leaving aside it's simplistic, ahistorical, apolitical laughable nature for now) they are fascists. Be brave enough to say it or be brave enough to take back your original characterisation of what constitutes fascism. I dare you to be rigorous, logical and principled.


----------



## IC3D (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> I'm interested to know where you feel I said I support their right to do anything that would be against the law. Actually, if you go back, you will see that I very clearly stated that they have the right to free speech within the parameters of the law. Once they start breaking the law, by attacking people or businesses, they need to be dealt with in the same way as everyone else who attacks people or businesses.


 
Would defend the Muslim community if they wanted to march in the communities the EDL live in, spreading hate and demanding restrictions on their lives.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 10, 2011)

All the ingredients for  massive kick off are there for Dewsbury tomorrow.

The hard core are fed up of being penned in like animals, the leadership have announced that they are not going to comply with the police, most are fed up of chanting drunkenly at steel barriers with no one taking much notice of them and the mood seems to be a huge fight and I am not sure they care who they fight with.

Tomorrow could be very interesting.  Oh and Pablo has surrendered.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 10, 2011)

.


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Let me see, they want to ban islamic fundamentalists from broadcasting their messages



*What, just like the left does to the EDL? Or when leftist groups attack BNP stalls? Or When leftist groups attack and kill members of the National Front? That sort of broadcasting ban?*



butchersapron said:


> they want to ban the building of mosques (i.e religious expression)



*Some members may hold that belief, but it doesn't state anywhere on their website, or on their Wikipedia article that it is the official policy of the organisation.*




butchersapron said:


> they want to ban the burqa



*So do many groups. Wasn't it Labour who first brought this idea to the table, though? *



butchersapron said:


> and so on - all taken together, this clearly constitutes seeking to restrict free speech. Under your definition of fascism (leaving aside it's simplistic, ahistorical, apolitical laughable nature for now) they are fascists. Be brave enough to say it or be brave enough to take back your original characterisation of what constitutes fascism. I dare you to be rigorous, logical and principled.


 
*Once again, in the same way, that when the left raids BNP/EDL meeting/Stalls etc, that also constitutes restricting free speech. Or when someone obviously on the side of the left, leaked thousands of contact details of BNP members to wikileaks, then harassed them with cold calls and attacks on their homes. The left commits far more fascistic crimes than anyone else.  *


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2011)

So argue that _all_ these people are fascists - including the edl. I dared you to be rigorous, logical and principled. Couldn't do it could you?


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> So argue that _all_ these people are fascists - including the edl. I dared you to be rigorous, logical and principled. Couldn't do it could you?



Once you do the same for the left, which you most definitely wont ever do, since in your mind, nothing is fascist when the left does it, is it?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2011)

8 posts and undone already. Too scared and unprincipled to stand by its own posts, it's own definitions or its own words. 

See ya weekend weirdo.


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

Oh, I forgot to mention the planned counter protest to the TPA protest. Leftist fascism extends further than just Islamic Fundamentalism. You wanted to shut down the protest of a group of people who supported the cuts. Fascist right to the core.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

How does counter protesting an event mean you are "shutting it down"?


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> 8 posts and undone already. Too scared and unprincipled to stand by its own posts, it's own definitions or its own words.
> 
> See ya weekend weirdo.



Undone? No I don't think so. You are unable to respond to me, because deep down in your mind, you realise I am actually right. You know it. But like all on the left, you are too cowardly to accept it. Your username as well, "Butchers Apron", a widely used derogatory term for the Union Flag of the UK. That in itself, could be construed as racist.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

> Or When leftist groups attack and kill members of the National Front?



When did this happen?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

> Once again, in the same way, that when the left raids BNP/EDL meeting/Stalls etc, that also constitutes restricting free speech. Or when someone obviously on the side of the left, leaked thousands of contact details of BNP members to wikileaks, then harassed them with cold calls and attacks on their homes. The left commits far more fascistic crimes than anyone else.



I think I've seen the light.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> Undone? No I don't think so. You are unable to respond to me, because deep down in your mind, you realise I am actually right. You know it. But like all on the left, you are too cowardly to accept it. Your username as well, "Butchers Apron", a widely used derogatory term for the Union Flag of the UK. That in itself, could be construed as racist.


 
You haven't got the courage of your convictions. You claim that seeking to restrict free speech is fascism. Yet you won't call the edl fascist for seeking to restrict free speech. You don't even believe in your own nonsense. Or else you would define them as fascist wouldn't you? But you don't. 

Away child, away.


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> When did this happen?


 
It is quite a common thing in Europe, but I do know the ANL brutally attacked the wife of John Tyndall. I admit, my original statement should have placed a comma between "Attack" and "and".


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You haven't got the courage of your convictions. You claim that seeking to restrict free speech is fascism. Yet you won't call the edl fascist for seeking to restrict free speech. You don't even believe in your own nonsense. Or else you would define them as fascist wouldn't you? But you don't.
> 
> Away child, away.


 
You claim that the EDL are fascist without addressing your own fascism, then turn the debate into one that puts ME under spotlight, when I quite clearly stated that ANY GROUP who attempts to block free speech is fascist. Word manipulation, something also well known to the left. When are you going to accept that your "anti fascist" demonstrations are a clear example of fascism? Since that is entirely what this debate is about. I never stated that the EDL were not fascist, meaning you have manipulated my words, to your gain. Yet another reason why the left can never be trusted in politics.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2011)

It's quite common for the ANL to kill National Front members in europe?

Which one are you btw?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> You claim that the EDL are fascist without addressing your own fascism, then turn the debate into one that puts ME under spotlight, when I quite clearly stated that ANY GROUP who attempts to block free speech is fascist. Word manipulation, something also well known to the left. When are you going to accept that your "anti fascist" demonstrations are a clear example of fascism? Since that is entirely what this debate is about.



I haven't claimed the edl are fascists. What nonsense. _You have_. 

You're the one who claimed that seeking to restrict freedom of speech is fascism. You're just too cowarldy and uncprincipled to follow through on this blindingly nuanced analysis. Aren't you?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> It is quite a common thing in Europe, but I do know the ANL brutally attacked the wife of John Tyndall. I admit, my original statement should have placed a comma between "Attack" and "and".


 
Did she die?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> You claim that the EDL are fascist without addressing your own fascism, then turn the debate into one that puts ME under spotlight, when I quite clearly stated that ANY GROUP who attempts to block free speech is fascist. Word manipulation, something also well known to the left. When are you going to accept that your "anti fascist" demonstrations are a clear example of fascism? Since that is entirely what this debate is about. I never stated that the EDL were not fascist, meaning you have manipulated my words, to your gain. Yet another reason why the left can never be trusted in politics.


 
What do you think fascism is? Hint: it doesn't mean "disagreeing with someone".


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 10, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> How are Bob2009's exams going. I have missed his updates


 
Last one was today, did ok i think, have to wait 9 weeks to find out. but i can start looking for new work now as the coruse is over 

to tired for the EDL tonight took me 4 hours to drive home


----------



## TurnToTheRight (Jun 10, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Did she die?


 
No idea. It covers the "attacking" part, however.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

When did "left wing groups" attack and kill members of the NF? And how is this "common"?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> No idea. It covers the "attacking" part, however.


 
So you admit you were bullshitting then.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

> You claim that the EDL are fascist without addressing your own fascism, then turn the debate into one that puts ME under spotlight, when I quite clearly stated that ANY GROUP who attempts to block free speech is fascist. Word manipulation, something also well known to the left.



"Addressing your own fascism"? 

Fascism isn't something that happens inside peoples heads you know so save your psychobabble. 

And you're wrong, not every group who attempts to "block free speech" is fascist - leaving aside your pathetic examples of when someone is "blocking free speech" such as going on a demonstration or "word manipulation". Unfortunately the word has become so misused that to some people it does basically mean anyone who criticises another person's pov - but i sense that's not why you're here tbh. 

and you haven't answered my question on how "the left" wanted to shut down the pro-cuts demo. How is holding an opposing demo "shutting something down"? Does your idea of free speech not extend to people disagreeing with each other and expressing that disagreement?


----------



## binka (Jun 10, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> Your username as well, "Butchers Apron", a widely used derogatory term for the Union Flag of the UK. That in itself, could be construed as racist.


 
tbh i think any racist overtones are purely coincidental - he's actually just a massive fan of meat


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 10, 2011)

Tell us how an absolute free market, no public ownership of anything, no services, no welfare, etc, will bring about an end to poverty and inequality, Mr Libertarian. I love this shit.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

It would be better than the NHS because "hospitals would compete with each other to be better".


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 10, 2011)

We can all be rich and wealthy (if we can all find some people to exploit)


----------



## Blagsta (Jun 10, 2011)

Yeah, but who are the real fascists?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 10, 2011)

if you have a go at someone for saying the jews control the world, you're being a fascist, shutting down their opinions.


----------



## pk (Jun 10, 2011)




----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It's quite common for the ANL to kill National Front members in europe?
> 
> Which one are you btw?



The good looking one?


----------



## revlon (Jun 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Last one was today, did ok i think, have to wait 9 weeks to find out. but i can start looking for new work now as the coruse is over
> 
> to tired for the EDL tonight took me 4 hours to drive home


 
you must be cuming in your pants mate - end of exams and a real life edler on the internet with us! We've got here! Right now!


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Yeah, but who are the real fascists?


 
Don't you know - Urbanz are the real fascists


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> if you have a go at someone for saying the jews control the world, you're being a fascist, shutting down their opinions.



Don't oppress me, man! You just wanna shut down our freedoms, m'kay?


----------



## where to (Jun 11, 2011)

TurnToTheRight said:


> Your username as well, "Butchers Apron", a widely used derogatory term for the Union Flag of the UK. That in itself, could be construed as racist.



on so many levels, that is thick.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Update from Dewsbury, the EDL have been kettled in the car park at Dewsbury Station despite not wanting to be kettled.  The breakaway group in Batley have been kettled and then herded onto a Dewsbury bound train, where upon arrival they have been kettled with the main group in Dewsbury Railway Station car park.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Well, 100 pages, thought I might take this opportunity to congratulate you on 100 pages of mis analysis of the EDL and yes, I openly admit that I support the EDL, but the EDL that I support is vastly different to what's being posted here.
The EDL that I support are the real working classes, not the pretend working classes that have taken over the Labour party and the unions, we are the ones they betrayed, had our voices taken away, classed as bigots, racist, Nazis, all the usual left wing middle class rhetoric, meant to silence any dissent and it worked for while. But now we don't care what they say and we won't be silenced.

You on the left see us as hooligans,skin head, uneducated mob and that is so far from reality that it's unbelievable, we are a very diverse group of people from all parts of the working classes and political spectrum and we may not be very sophisticated, we make mistakes, say the wrong things and put our foot in it on occasion, but that's because we are not slimy politicos, with weasel words and sound bites dripping of our tongues. We just get off our collective arses and march on the streets and make as much noise as we can until they listen to our concerns, and they will.

Every so often I read here how we are going to fragment, how we are divided, no we aren't, we have disagreements but our core is rock solid and I bet that you on the left wish you could achieve that sort of solidarity, we have been able to produce bodies on the streets on a regular basis for two and a half years anywhere in the country. You cannot do that without solidarity.

Lets look at the idea constantly thrown out by the left that EDL is racist, this despite the fact that there are many supporters who are not white and when they come to protests they are seen as EDL and treated as such, why because most of us could not give a flying fig for the colour of peoples skin, it is a complete non issue, anyone can join us. If you are a racist then we do not want you anywhere near us.
What creates trouble is that you on the left keep inviting them to join us, quite a clever ploy really, tell every one we are racist, that stops people of ethnic groups from supporting us and gives racists the all clear to join, then you can sit back and say, look there's racist among them, same thing applies to all the tags that you lumber us with, Nazi, right wing, you encourage these people and our stewards are put in danger when they kick them out. Then when they do kick them out you crow, saying, ooh look, they can't find anyone to fight so they're fighting them selves.

You're favourite enemy is the BNP, well we don't like them either but what you have tried to do is to link us with them, guilt by association, a few EDL may well have voted or even joined the BNP, just like many Labour, Jack Straw, was a communist, does that make Labour communist, of course not and that applies to us too, most of us believe that all politicians are thieving lying sell outs and we want nothing to do with any of them.
So the left thought that they could use the same methods of intimidation that they used on the BNP on us, except that it has not worked, attack us and we will defend ourselves and the UAF, SWP and those that support them have discovered that, it's why their numbers grow smaller and smaller, they have not stopped one single demo and they never will.

You even mis understand what we are against, we are against Islamofascism and it's stealth jihad, we are against a group that attacks gay people, that preaches hatred to Jewish people, that regards women as 2nd class citizens and they do this openly with complete disregard for our laws and our culture. We are against the radicals that blow us up on the buses and tubes on our way to work, that want to indiscriminately kill working class folk, because it is not the bankers and politicians on those tubes and buses on their way to work, is it, it's us.

Arthur.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

> Every so often I read here how we are going to fragment, how we are divided, no we aren't, we have disagreements but our core is rock solid and I bet that you on the left wish you could achieve that sort of solidarity, we have been able to produce bodies on the streets on a regular basis for two and a half years anywhere in the country. You cannot do that without *hate*.



Fixed that for you.


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Well, 100 pages, thought I might take this opportunity to congratulate you on 100 pages of mis analysis of the EDL and yes, I openly admit that I support the EDL...



At which point I gave up reading your post.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Arhur, weren't you the fella who posted on libcom a while ago?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Oh god, I wondered when Arthur was going to appear.  You are going to get eaten here, just like you did on the ARSSE forums.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Arhur, weren't you the fella who posted on libcom a while ago?


 
Arthur has popped up everywhere. Including here before iirc. Same thing every time.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur is the EDL's messageboard outreach officer.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

> You on the left see us as hooligans,skin head, uneducated mob



A good majority of the people in this country think of you as such. Have you ever wondered why?  Well that is the majority of people who have actually heard of you or give a shit about your crusade against Muslims.

Any comments on this Arthur, the was last weekend's demo where your lot where suppose to be holding a vigil for a young girl that was supposedly murdered.

Now ask yourself again why people think you are a bunch of cunts?


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 11, 2011)

Is Arthur second from the right?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

You'd think Arthur might have learnt to distinguish between the liberal left and the working class left by now.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 11, 2011)

What are you *for* Arthur2?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> A good majority of the people in this country think of you as such. Have you ever wondered why?  Well that is the majority of people who have actually heard of you or give a shit about your crusade against Muslims.
> 
> Any comments on this Arthur, the was last weekend's demo where your lot where suppose to be holding a vigil for a young girl that was supposedly murdered.
> 
> Now ask yourself again why people think you are a bunch of cunts?


 
That's disgusting. What sort of cunt drinks Carling?


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That's disgusting. What sort of cunt drinks Carling?


 
Cheap cunts with no tastebuds left.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Arhur, weren't you the fella who posted on libcom a while ago?



Yes I was.

Arthur.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Do you think your important internet work is a worthwhile use of your time, Arthur?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

> Every so often I read here how we are going to fragment, how we are divided, no we aren't, we have disagreements but our core is rock solid and I bet that you on the left wish you could achieve that sort of solidarity, we have been able to produce bodies on the streets on a regular basis for two and a half years anywhere in the country. You cannot do that without solidarity.



Wrong completely and utterly delusional. Your numbers are going down with each demo.  the Dewsbury demo today attracted 250 and that is mainly down to the fact the Tommy alienated the North. The numbers in Maidenhead today were also poor and that is basically because no one gives a shit about your racist organisation in the South East. That is fragmentation in action to me and any other sane person.

Due to the fact that you demos involve getting pissed on Stella and fighting each other, the police have to pen you into a mental cage (play pen) where you all drunkenly stand and shout racist insults at a metal barrier all day.  You have to be treated like kids because you cannot control yourselves.  Because people are getting fed up with shouting at steel barriers, they are not turning up for the demos.

In short, you are full of shit.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh god, I wondered when Arthur was going to appear.  You are going to get eaten here, just like you did on the ARSSE forums.



No I didn't get eaten, in fact many on there were polite and prepared to debate.

Arthur.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

I don't think the EDL can be dismissed as simply as that Fingers. Their leaders are a fucking joke and the big demo model appears to have run its course, but they represent something.

Having said that, Arthur clearly has his pitch and not much else besides.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

By the way Arthur, your fast growing racist street movement attendance figures got trounced by the slut walkers today.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> No I didn't get eaten, in fact many on there were polite and prepared to debate.
> 
> Arthur.



Bull shit, those ex forces boys do not take kindly to pissed up twats claiming they are protecting Britain by getting drunk and fighting.  You were put well and truly in your place.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Here is another photo taken after the Charlene Downs memorial demo.  I have linked it as it is NSFW

http://twitpic.com/59ohf6


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

audiotech said:


> What are you *for* Arthur2?



What am I for, I'm for a democracy that listens to it's people, I'm for a democracy that has honest people in It's parliament.
I'm for a system that that provides education and health care for it's people.

I would like to see the power of giant companies reigned in and for them to recognise that they have a degree of social responsibility.
I would like to see the bankers jailed for their part in bringing this country to it's knees.

I'm for abolishing party whips so all can vote on the conscience and more referendums on the future of this nation.

Arthur.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> What am I for, I'm for a democracy that listens to it's people, I'm for a democracy that has honest people in It's parliament.
> I'm for a system that that provides education and health care for it's people.
> 
> I would like to see the power of giant companies reigned in and for them to recognise that they have a degree of social responsibility.
> ...


 
Join the swappies.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 11, 2011)

So Arthur2, how would you go about achieving that list of goals and, assuming you're honest, are you likely to stand for parliament?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Do you think your important internet work is a worthwhile use of your time, Arthur?



I don't see myself as important, I'm part of a team and we all try to do our bit and each bit is a part of the whole movement.
So yes, I do see it as worthwhile, otherwise I wouldn't be doing it.

There are many good and decent people in the EDL and it is them I defend, I don't defend racists or Nazis or any violence either.

Arthur.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Bull shit, those ex forces boys do not take kindly to pissed up twats claiming they are protecting Britain by getting drunk and fighting.  You were put well and truly in your place.



We will have to agree to differ on that.

Arthur.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

How about you address my other two posts Arthur? The ones where I quite clearly explain to you why the majority of people and media think you are a bunch of pissed up hooligan cunts?  You seemed surprised that people thought that way and I explained it to you.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Wrong completely and utterly delusional. Your numbers are going down with each demo.  the Dewsbury demo today attracted 250 and that is mainly down to the fact the Tommy alienated the North. The numbers in Maidenhead today were also poor and that is basically because no one gives a shit about your racist organisation in the South East. That is fragmentation in action to me and any other sane person.
> 
> Due to the fact that you demos involve getting pissed on Stella and fighting each other, the police have to pen you into a mental cage (play pen) where you all drunkenly stand and shout racist insults at a metal barrier all day.  You have to be treated like kids because you cannot control yourselves.  Because people are getting fed up with shouting at steel barriers, they are not turning up for the demos.
> 
> In short, you are full of shit.



Actually a Dewsbury councillor counted 500 and 50 UAF, I don't know the numbers for the Maidenhead protest, but neither were national demos but local division ones, there was also another demo somewhere but I've no info yet on that one.

As for alienating the north, not true at all, a few people became big headed and now it has mostly been sorted.

Any one shouting racist insults will be removed. A few people like a pint or two, so what, I don't.

Arthur.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Here is another photo taken after the Charlene Downs memorial demo.  I have linked it as it is NSFW
> 
> http://twitpic.com/59ohf6


 
Well, you get idiots in all walks of life, sigh.

Arthur.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

I suggest you look at your own EDL Facebook support page where they have annonuced between 200 - 250. 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-Support-Group/110850982316431

You are insignificant and getting smaller as every demo passes.  Most people point and laugh.


"As for alienating the north, not true at all, a few people became big headed and now it has mostly been sorted."

Yes Tommy sent some of his thugs round to threaten him and terrify his 13 year old daughter.  Brownshirts pure and simple.

"Any one shouting racist insults will be removed."

Do you want me to post the hundreds of screenshots of racism on the EDL wall over the last few days or are you going to shut up and stop making a complete prat of yourself?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Ah, the EDL protesting peacefully:

This afternoon it has kicked off at Dewsbury station and it is now kicking off big time in Maidenhead.

http://twitpic.com/5a2ai9

Any comment Arthur?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> How about you address my other two posts Arthur? The ones where I quite clearly explain to you why the majority of people and media think you are a bunch of pissed up hooligan cunts?  You seemed surprised that people thought that way and I explained it to you.



No the majority do not think as you say, our supporters are many, do you think that what you see on the streets is all of EDL, many people can't get to protests for all sorts of reasons and they support EDL in other ways, I can't get to every demo, i do my best but it's impossible.
This idea that we are all drunken hooligans is wide of the mark, you cannot dismiss a whole swathe of people like that, just as I couldn't say that all muslims are terrorists, the majority are plainly not.
The image that you attach to EDL is your image, it's what you would like us to be and that's a whole different ball game.

Arthur.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

EDL - Far right fringe movement - established 2 year - barely got 2,000 to the Blackpool demo

Fight against the cuts  - established for a few months - 250,000 plus marching in central London

You are full of shit Arthur and your racist organisation is utterly significant.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> The image that you attach to EDL is your image, it's what you would like us to be and that's a whole different ball game.
> 
> Arthur.


This is exactly what you do arthur. The evidence is front of you. It's a shambles, No spin can change that. You pretend your ideal model of what the edl _should_ be is what it _is_. You know that it's not.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Ah, the EDL protesting peacefully:
> 
> This afternoon it has kicked off at Dewsbury station and it is now kicking off big time in Maidenhead.
> 
> ...



Yes, demo over, no arrests, protesters dispersed peacefully. So no, it didn't kick off, big time.

Arthur.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

"just as I couldn't say that all muslims are terrorists"

A large amount of your members do think this though, there are swathes of posts saying this and 'burn mosques' all over your Facebook pages.  We who oppose fascist groups like the EDL have documented proof that the majority of the EDL are as I described.

Any comments on the violence in Dewsbury and Maidenhead this afternoon Arthur? I thought you lot protested peacefully.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 11, 2011)

A report from Hope not Hate states Mehboob Khan, leader of Kirklees Council "Walking around Dewsbury town centre talking with businesses and local people, views are that EDL travelling thugs not welcome to our town."

Also earlier, "Violent thug Bernard Holmes just spotted in Dewsbury. Just a reminder Bernard Holmes was jailed for a violent attack that left a man with brain damage. Now leading NW EDL organiser."

Thoughts Arthur2?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

audiotech said:


> A report from Hope not Hate states Mehboob Khan, leader of Kirklees Council "Walking around Dewsbury town centre talking with businesses and local people, views are that EDL travelling thugs not welcome to our town."
> 
> Also earlier, "Violent thug Bernard Holmes just spotted in Dewsbury. Just a reminder Bernard Holmes was jailed for a violent attack that left a man with brain damage. Now leading NW EDL organiser."
> 
> Thoughts Arthur2?



But this is all pointless bollocks Is the council leader the voice of the w/c or on of those twats that imposed the conditions that led to the growth of the  BNP in that town. These aren't worthless criticisms. Why not ask the local rotary club what they think?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Oh dear, it is getting messy in maidenhead. updated:

http://www.twitpic.com/5a2eh1


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Why are text accounts of pointless non-contact stand-offs being described as stuff kicking off?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh dear, it is getting messy in maidenhead. updated:
> 
> http://www.twitpic.com/5a2eh1


 
Asians in Maidenhead?


----------



## audiotech (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> But this is all pointless bollocks Is the council leader the voice of the w/c or on of those twats that imposed the conditions that led to the growth of the  BNP in that town. These aren't worthless criticisms. Why not ask the local rotary club what they think?



You appear to have missed the 'local people' bit?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

audiotech said:


> You appear to have missed the 'local people' bit?


 
And you appear to have missed:



> Mehboob Khan, leader of Kirklees Council "Walking around Dewsbury town centre talking with businesses and local people



I wonder if the only local people he sees is business people?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Asians in Maidenhead?


 
yep, there's always been a big asian community there. 

its not as posh as it once was either.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> And you appear to have missed:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the only local people he sees is business people?


 
You do know that local people tend to shop in local shops dontcha?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> EDL - Far right fringe movement - established 2 year - barely got 2,000 to the Blackpool demo
> 
> Fight against the cuts  - established for a few months - 250,000 plus marching in central London
> 
> You are full of shit Arthur and your racist organisation is utterly significant.



You mean all those middle classes that took over the unions and now that their cushy little private sector jobs are under threat are marching, well well, I didn't see them doing much when 40,000 odd woolworth employees lost their jobs nor all the other private sector jobs went down the pan, very silent then weren't they.
Same unions that yelled blue murder when Gordon Brown said British jobs for British workers, now watch them change their tune.

Arthur.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> And you appear to have missed:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the only local people he sees is business people?



Only in your present feavored imagination.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

TruXta said:


> You do know that local people tend to shop in local shops dontcha?


 
What do you think 'see' meant in what i posted? What do you think is good about using mayors to oppose this bollocks?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You mean all those middle classes that took over the unions and now that their cushy little private sector jobs are under threat are marching, well well, I didn't see them doing much when 40,000 odd woolworth employees lost their jobs nor all the other private sector jobs went down the pan, very silent then weren't they.
> Same unions that yelled blue murder when Gordon Brown said British jobs for British workers, now watch them change their tune.
> 
> Arthur.



What the fuck has and of that drivel got to do with my point that the EDL are completely insignificant?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> What am I for, I'm for a democracy that listens to it's people, I'm for a democracy that has honest people in It's parliament.
> I'm for a system that that provides education and health care for it's people.
> 
> I would like to see the power of giant companies reigned in and for them to recognise that they have a degree of social responsibility.
> ...


 
Why does the EDL support the cuts and praise Cameron then? Why are you in bed with the free-market loving tea bagging yanks?


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What do you think 'see' meant in what i posted? What do you think is good about using mayors to oppose this bollocks?


 
Stop talking bollocks, it's clear as day you were insinuating the mayor was only cozying up to the local business-people, when the sentence quoted didn't in fact support that interpretation. On your second question I haven't the foggiest and for now I simply don't give a fuck. Nothing personal.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You mean all those middle classes that took over the unions and now that their cushy little private sector jobs are under threat are marching, well well, I didn't see them doing much when 40,000 odd woolworth employees lost their jobs nor all the other private sector jobs went down the pan, very silent then weren't they.
> Same unions that yelled blue murder when Gordon Brown said British jobs for British workers, now watch them change their tune.
> 
> Arthur.



And here we get the anti-w/c stance of mugs like you on a plate. You think all union members are middle class? You think the cuts are aimed at the middle classes? This is why you're going nowhere. You think the usdaw members who worked at woolworths were middle class? You think there's 500-600 000 union bureaucrats from about 6 million members, and that's who turned out in march? Anti w/c pro-nature of your approach laid bare.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Where's the EDL critique of the bankers bail-out Arthur?

What are the EDL doing to campaign against the attacks on the disabled being undertaken by the government?

In short, how does the EDL help ordinary working class people?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This is exactly what you do arthur. The evidence is front of you. It's a shambles, No spin can change that. You pretend your ideal model of what the edl _should_ be is what it _is_. You know that it's not.



The core of EDL are much like me, opposed to racism, Nazis and violence, yes there are a number of Idiots, not denying that but you get those on many demos, some quite a bit worse.

Arthur.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Stop talking bollocks, it's clear as day you were insinuating the mayor was only cozying up to the local business-people, when the sentence quoted didn't in fact support that interpretation. On your second question I haven't the foggiest and for now I simply don't give a fuck. Nothing personal.


 
I was suggesting that effective resistance to the racialisation of politics that the edl promotes and is an example of is not helped by enlisting the help of those who've imposed the conditions that have led to that racialisation. Never mind, maybe it was just too nuanced a point.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> In short, how does the EDL help ordinary working class people?


 
Catharsis through violence against those worse off.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Are you opposed to tories, cuts and the increasing wealth gap between the haves and the have-nots too Arthur?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> The core of EDL are much like me, opposed to racism, Nazis and violence, yes there are a number of Idiots, not denying that but you get those on many demos, some quite a bit worse.
> 
> Arthur.


 
What use it that to me in stopping the cuts that are damaging me and my family?


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I was suggesting that effective resistance to the racialisation of politics that the edl promotes and is an example of is not helped by enlisting the help of those who've imposed the conditions that have led to that racialisation. Never mind, maybe it was just too nuanced a point.


 
If you'd just written that, there'd be no need for my possibly harsh words. Seriously, b, you could make life easier for yourself, and more importantly other users of the boards, if you just took the time to spell shit out once in a while. Your stuff is usually very worthwhile whether or not I personally agree with it.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> The core of EDL are much like me, opposed to racism, Nazis and violence
> Arthur.



Never has so much bullshit been written on U75. You only have to spend five minutes reading the comments of your core supporters on the Facebook wall

Muzzrats
Burn their mosques
Ban Halal food
Muzzie cunts
Ban the Burka
Filthy stinking rat
Send them home
Deport them or hand them

It is plastered all over and I am wondering if you are being wilfully obtuse or if you are just plain stupid.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

TruXta said:


> If you'd just written that, there'd be no need for my possibly harsh words. Seriously, b, you could make life easier for yourself, and more importantly other users of the boards, if you just took the time to spell shit out once in a while. Your stuff is usually very worthwhile whether or not I personally agree with it.


 
I've made post after post after post saying just that, well into the thousands now - the poster i was replying to has read most of them. I didn't need to say it again. Don't assume that you not knowing the context means others don't.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I've made post after post after post saying just that, well into the thousands now - the poster i was replying to has read most of them. I didn't need to say it again. Don't assume that you not knowing the context means others don't.


 
Fair points, but it's not like I'm the only one who's said similar to you. Anyway. A good weekend to you sir, catch y'all later.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Same unions that yelled blue murder when Gordon Brown said British jobs for British workers,
> 
> Arthur.



They supported it you div.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Why does the EDL support the cuts and praise Cameron then? Why are you in bed with the free-market loving tea bagging yanks?



Praise Cameron, I don't think so, I think the general consensus is he is a sell out but EDL is not a political party, so we don't have opinions on everything, we are a one issue protest group. Of course some within the EDL have varying opinions on many things, as I said in my first post, we are from all of the political spectrum and our individual views reflect that.

We support the Tea parties stance on Islamification and no to a mosque at ground zero and that's about it. This is a global fight and we will link up with other anti Jihadists.

Arthur.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Praise Cameron, I don't think so, I think the general consensus is he is a sell out but EDL is not a political party, so we don't have opinions on everything, we are a one issue protest group. Of course some within the EDL have varying opinions on many things, as I said in my first post, we are from all of the political spectrum and our individual views reflect that.
> 
> We support the Tea parties stance on Islamification and *no to a mosque at ground zero *and that's about it. This is a global fight and we will link up with other anti Jihadists.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Such a shame they're not building a mosque at Ground Zero then. Is basic fact-checking too much to ask then?


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Praise Cameron, I don't think so, I think the general consensus is he is a sell out but EDL is not a political party, so we don't have opinions on everything, we are a one issue protest group. Of course some within the EDL have varying opinions on many things, as I said in my first post, we are from all of the political spectrum and our individual views reflect that.
> 
> We support the Tea parties stance on Islamification and no to a mosque at ground zero and that's about it. This is a global fight and we will link up with other anti Jihadists.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Good grief.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I've made post after post after post saying just that, well into the thousands now - the poster i was replying to has read most of them. I didn't need to say it again. Don't assume that you not knowing the context means others don't.



Jeez, I posted a quote from an elected local councillor there on the ground in Dewsbury and it now seems I'm someone collaborating with the class enemy?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Praise Cameron, I don't think so, I think the general consensus is he is a sell out but EDL is not a political party, so we don't have opinions on everything, we are a one issue protest group. Of course some within the EDL have varying opinions on many things, as I said in my first post, we are from all of the political spectrum and our individual views reflect that.
> 
> We support the Tea parties stance on Islamification and no to a mosque at ground zero and that's about it. This is a global fight and we will link up with other anti Jihadists.
> 
> Arthur.


 
So basically you're an isolated group with pretty much nothing to say on the central issues that the w/c faces today - beyond some foreign obsessions. 

What/who has Cameron sold out btw? That could be key here. The w/c?


----------



## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> So basically you're an isolated group with pretty much nothing to say on the central issues that the w/c faces today - beyond some foreign obsessions.


 
Foreign delusions more like it.


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What/who has Cameron sold out btw? That could be key here. The w/c?


 
Not tough enough on immigration I suspect.


----------



## where to (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur, what would you say were the greatest achievements of the EDL in the last 2.5 years?  And have your successes outweighed the loss of tens of millions of pounds from policing and security budgets which have been redirected to prevent EDL-centred disturbances?

In your own terms, would you say that the EDL are succeeding in fighting Jihad style Islamism?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Never has so much bullshit been written on U75. You only have to spend five minutes reading the comments of your core supporters on the Facebook wall
> 
> Muzzrats
> Burn their mosques
> ...



Faceache is not a true reflection of EDL, come on, any tom dick and harry posts on there, even UAF go in there and make stupid comments, many of us wish it could be closed down, it's a total embarrassment.

On the EDL official forum no such rubbish would be allowed and the poster banned, I haven't been over there for years, it attracts some nutters, to say the least.

Arthur.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> We support the Tea parties stance on Islamification and no to a mosque at ground zero and that's about it. This is a global fight and we will link up with other anti Jihadists.
> 
> Arthur.



Including any homophobic, religious nutters How ironic.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Praise Cameron, I don't think so, I think the general consensus is he is a sell out but EDL is not a political party, so we don't have opinions on everything, we are a one issue protest group. Of course some within the EDL have varying opinions on many things, as I said in my first post, we are from all of the political spectrum and our individual views reflect that.
> 
> We support the Tea parties stance on Islamification and no to a mosque at ground zero and that's about it. This is a global fight and we will link up with other anti Jihadists.
> 
> Arthur.



No you are not a one issue protest group, you have many issues, mainly to do with brown people. 

Recent issues

Muslim pedophiles (conveniently ignoring the fact that a vast majority of paedos in this country are white and british
Halal meat (conveniently ignoring kosher meat)
Spending a month pointlessly demonstrating outside a KFC that was not actually Halal
ban the nurka (conveniently ignoring the fact that your halfwit members wear balaclavas and facemasks at demos)
Sharia law (conveniently ignoring Beth Din)

Not to mention the endless facination with blowing/burning up mosques.  One of your members is up before the beak next week for trying to blow up a mosque. Terrorism pure and simple which put the lives of the local residents, the people in the mosque and the emergency services at risk. yes there is an EDL event on Facebook asking for people to go and support him. EDL member son that group are calling him a hero and saying he should not be prosecuted

So 

It is no longer about muslim extremists, it is about muslims, or anyone an EDL knuckledragging halfwit deems a bit too brown. Why the need to lie Arthur? If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you stop making a prat out of yourself.

And you still wonder why decent people think you are cunt.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Faceache is not a true reflection of EDL, come on, any tom dick and harry posts on there, even UAF go in there and make stupid comments, many of us wish it could be closed down, it's a total embarrassment.
> 
> On the EDL official forum no such rubbish would be allowed and the poster banned, I haven't been over there for years, it attracts some nutters, to say the least.
> 
> Arthur.


 
I knew it would not be long before he claimed UAF make all the racist posts on Facebook. No one goes to your official forums (and even less so since they shut the old boards down) The majority of your members post on Facebook and the racism and hate is there for all to see, so cut the crap Arthur, stop making a dick of yourself on here and have some respect for yourself.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Faceache is not a true reflection of EDL, come on, any tom dick and harry posts on there, even UAF go in there and make stupid comments, many of us wish it could be closed down, it's a total embarrassment.
> 
> Arthur.



No it is your core membership who are total are a total embarrassment to this country.


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Nothing to say about class issues, Arthur?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

OK Arthur, now you have failed to counter anything I or anyone else has said, can we move onto the issues with your leadership

Tommy's cocaine habit despite being against Muslims selling drugs
Roberta Moore supporting a known terrorist organisation
Roberta and Tommy covering up for paedophile Richrd Price
Tommy sending thugs to the house of Snowy and threatening his thirteen year old daughter
The leadership's former membership of the British National Party

Just a taste of the can of worms there sunshine.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> So basically you're an isolated group with pretty much nothing to say on the central issues that the w/c faces today - beyond some foreign obsessions.
> 
> What/who has Cameron sold out btw? That could be key here. The w/c?



Labour, Tories, libdems are all sellouts, sold us out to the EU, sold us out by using immigration as a way of keeping wages down and replacing our votes, sold us out selling all our gold and stealing from our pensions, sold us by not building affordable homes. Sold us out by spending money we haven't got and landing us with huge debts. Sold us out by appeasing the banks and deregulating them and then when it went wrong, bailing them out using our money and letting them walk away scott free.
The list is endless and they are still doing it now.

Arthur.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

So you're anti-cuts then? What are the edl doing to put their shoulder to the wheel to oppose the cuts and defend the working class from these attacks?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

stephj said:


> Nothing to say about class issues, Arthur?



Having encountered Arthur on the Digital Spy forums and elsewhere, his MO is to spout shit and they conveniently ignore the shit he has spouted when he is pulled up on it. Have I just admitted to posting on DS? The shame!


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Labour, Tories, libdems are all sellouts, sold us out to the EU, sold us out by using immigration as a way of keeping wages down and replacing our votes, sold us out selling all our gold and stealing from our pensions, sold us by not building affordable homes. Sold us out by spending money we haven't got and landing us with huge debts. Sold us out by appeasing the banks and deregulating them and then when it went wrong, bailing them out using our money and letting them walk away scott free.
> The list is endless and they are still doing it now.
> 
> Arthur.


 
So fight the ruling class and capitalism then. What are you doing?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Labour, Tories, libdems are all sellouts, sold us out to the EU,* sold us out by using immigration as a way of keeping wages down and replacing our votes*, sold us out selling all our gold and stealing from our pensions, sold us by not building affordable homes. Sold us out by spending money we haven't got and landing us with huge debts. Sold us out by appeasing the banks and deregulating them and then when it went wrong, bailing them out using our money and letting them walk away scott free.
> The list is endless and they are still doing it now.
> 
> Arthur.



Utter garbage of the sort propagated by John Tyndall, Martin Webster, Ian Anderson and Nick Griffin over the years.  Do you see the connection there, "Arthur"?

You're not related to this permanently work-shy fellow called Arthur, are you?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

While you are here Arthur, this was posted by a member of the EDL on EDL Yorkshire's official YouTube channel yesterday. It has since been removed but reposted by Expose.



Do you really need to ask me again why the majority of people think the EDL are cunts?

ETA:  It was titled 'Paki getting what he deserved'


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> No you are not a one issue protest group, you have many issues, mainly to do with brown people.
> 
> Recent issues
> 
> ...



We don't have members only supporters and it is difficult to control who says they are a supporter, personally I support no such thing, set fire to a mosque expect 10 years in jail and good riddance. 

Arthur.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> We don't have members only supporters and it is difficult to control who says they are a supporter, personally I support no such thing, set fire to a mosque expect 10 years in jail and good riddance.
> 
> Arthur.



Perhaps the EDL FB admins could try and control the rabidly racist shite EDL supporters post on their walls?  Just a thought, Arfur...


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Labour, Tories, libdems are all sellouts, sold us out to the EU, sold us out by using immigration as a way of keeping wages down and replacing our votes, sold us out selling all our gold and stealing from our pensions, sold us by not building affordable homes. Sold us out by spending money we haven't got and landing us with huge debts. Sold us out by appeasing the banks and deregulating them and then when it went wrong, bailing them out using our money and letting them walk away scott free.
> The list is endless and they are still doing it now.
> 
> Arthur.


 
how will go around terrorising women and kids and calling people pakis help this situation arthur?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Praise Cameron, I don't think so, I think the general consensus is he is a sell out but EDL is not a political party, so we don't have opinions on everything, we are a one issue protest group. Of course some within the EDL have varying opinions on many things, as I said in my first post, we are from all of the political spectrum and our individual views reflect that.
> 
> We support the Tea parties stance on Islamification and no to a mosque at ground zero and that's about it. This is a global fight and we will link up with other anti Jihadists.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Your leadership - which you alluded earlier you are a part of - praised Cameron you fool


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Any comments on the video posted by Yorkshire Division Arthur?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2011)

Because of his statements on "multiculturalism".


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

Seeing as you lot are so keen on banging on about "Muslim paedos" Arfur, how does that explain the jolly japes of Richard "Pricey" Price, EDL co-founder, who was caught with child porn images on his computer?  And what happened to the Pricey Fighting Fund money raised by Tommy and Co?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Labour, Tories, libdems are all sellouts, sold us out to the EU, sold us out by using immigration as a way of keeping wages down and replacing our votes, sold us out selling all our gold and stealing from our pensions, sold us by not building affordable homes. Sold us out by spending money we haven't got and landing us with huge debts. Sold us out by appeasing the banks and deregulating them and then when it went wrong, bailing them out using our money and letting them walk away scott free.
> The list is endless and they are still doing it now.
> 
> Arthur.


 
How can you claim your organisation is against all these things when since the edl began, you have done nothing, NOTHING, to oppose these issues, what you have done is made utter tits of yourself, the only "confrontation" with the "elite" i can think of is a laughable, surreal video of you lot bursting into a meeting of KFC management and declaring "We want our bacon burgers back". you claim that you are all against the behaviour of the tories etc, but in that case why are you are attacking anti-cuts stalls and terrorising ordinary people. indeed the only mention of cameron and the cuts i have seen from you lot is the EDL's statement praising cameron for his attacks on multiculturalism ... why are you trying to stir up divisions, do you not see that ordinary muslims are not the problem??


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Seeing as you lot are so keen on banging on about "Muslim paedos" Arfur, how does that explain the jolly japes of Richard "Pricey" Price, EDL co-founder, who was caught with child porn images on his computer?  And what happened to the Pricey Fighting Fund money raised by Tommy and Co?


 
Richard Price was never a member of the EDL and never will be lol


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Fucking joke froggy.

Clearly stirring up racial tensions, in my part of London for example, is seen as a more useful tactic for them than fighting say the privatisation and cuts agenda.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

And Arfur, why are EDL members talking about being kettled by Asians (not "Muslims" Arfur, Asians) on the EDL FB walls re. the Dewsbury "big one",and why are EDL members talking about using the "race card" at future demos?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

What are the EDL doing about the cuts which are closing the services ordinary people rely on, entrenching unemployment, causing pain and misery for millions, and creating the social conditions in which radical alternatives like, I dunno, jihadism, thrives, Arthur?

Is the answer sweet fuck all? Or more accurately, supporting the cuts, cos after all those pesky unions and communists and whatnot are against them? And what does this tell you about the sort of organisation you are a part of?

I'm not interested in finding proof that the EDL is racist. Everybody knows they are racist. You know they are racist. What I am interested in is why you are part of a viciously anti-working class organisation.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Richard Price was never a member of the EDL and never will be lol



"Pricey was set up by Searchlight and New Labour".

MUG.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

Yeah, and why are EDL members on record for saying that they support banker's bonuses for "white" bankers?  Are you neo-liberalism's useful idiots, Arfur?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Yeah, and why are EDL members on record for saying that they support banker's bonuses for "white" bankers?  Are you neo-liberalism's useful idiots, Arfur?


 
I think it was 'English bankers' to be precise - they don't mind being fucked over and robbed blind by a bunch of city spivs so long as those spivs are flaxen-haired anglo-saxons.

Billy Boys mark II


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2011)

English bonuses for English bankers


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Quite PT. Their response to the weakening of the working class, wages and representation? Attack unions and labour movements.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur seems to have distanced himself away from the majority of EDLers on this thread.  After 100 pages of posts documenting the racism, the violence and the fuckwittery he sure knows how pick his fights. A career in public relation sis not waiting for him.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> English bonuses for English bankers


 
And jail and deportation for "Muzzer" bankers.  Bet you'd like that, eh Arfur?

What about one of you lot wanting all Muslims to be barred from sitting on UK juries as well?  Aren't UK Muslims "British", Arfur?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

There was more naked cyclists in London today than EDL members in Maidenhead

http://yfrog.com/kll0ewj


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

stephj said:


> Quite PT. Their response to the weakening of the working class, wages and representation? Attack unions and labour movements.


 
Innit. That's why they exist. The rabid anti-Muslim sentiment is the hook. In Scotland they had to attempt to exploit sectarianism instead of racism, like every other far right group before them - and that the far right can so happily switch hooks depending on the environment is testament to their true nature - the bosses favourite mugs.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 11, 2011)

Has Arthur surrendered?  I have seen him do this before three or four times. Join up, try and tell a group of decent people that the EDL are good and not racist and violent, get torn apart and surrender. NSFE


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2011)

What are you doing to stop the cuts arthur?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Praise Cameron, I don't think so, I think the general consensus is he is a sell out but EDL is not a political party, so we don't have opinions on everything, we are a one issue protest group. Of course some within the EDL have varying opinions on many things, as I said in my first post, we are from all of the political spectrum and our individual views reflect that.



A sell out from what?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> The EDL that I support are the real working classes, not the pretend working classes that have taken over the Labour party and the unions, we are the ones they betrayed, had our voices taken away, classed as bigots, racist, Nazis, all the usual left wing middle class rhetoric, meant to silence any dissent and it worked for while.


 
So is (ex-BNP member) Steven waxy lemon, or "Tommy" as he's known by his friends "real working class"? With his tanning salon and property portfolio? Really? What about the money/strategy man, Alan Lake, the millionaire IT man, (and supporter of the openly racist Sweden Democrats) is he working class? The EDL uses working class lads, just the same as Labour and the Tories.

"Stealth jihad" LOL. 

And I seem to remember that you don't even live in the UK - in which case what do you know about who or what the "real" EDL are, whether the fragmentation of the "movement" is real or whether the "threat" they oppose is real?

I like the idea that it's our fault that racists join the EDL though. Not heard that one before. Is the EDL leadership so incompetent that it can't find a way to overcome this subtle manipulation?

Finally, if the EDL are pro-working class, why on earth have they attacked stalls manned by people trying to fight the obviously anti-working class ConDem cuts?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

That Arthur says working classes instead of working class tells its own story.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2011)

Well, it clearly is working classes - there's the white working class, the brown working class, the black working class and the yellow working class. Then there are various shades in between who form splinter groups. The working classes are divided and must remain so. Or something.


----------



## Gingerman (Jun 11, 2011)

Funny that,there's another Arthur who pops up now and then to spout EDL propaganda on the Digitalspy Political forum,related perhaps ?


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

A quick google earlier and I think Arthur must be part of their PR as he's posted all over the place. Just not doing a very good job obv.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2011)

Tommy today....


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> How can you claim your organisation is against all these things when since the edl began, you have done nothing, NOTHING, to oppose these issues, what you have done is made utter tits of yourself, the only "confrontation" with the "elite" i can think of is a laughable, surreal video of you lot bursting into a meeting of KFC management and declaring "We want our bacon burgers back". you claim that you are all against the behaviour of the tories etc, but in that case why are you are attacking anti-cuts stalls and terrorising ordinary people. indeed the only mention of cameron and the cuts i have seen from you lot is the EDL's statement praising cameron for his attacks on multiculturalism ... why are you trying to stir up divisions, do you not see that ordinary muslims are not the problem??



You use the word attack and there was no attack, the left attacked us first and made yourselves the enemy, we can't have a protest without the UAF and friends turning up and attacking us, throwing coins is their favourite, got hit my self at the support Wilders demo.
So we can be attacked and should we defend ourselves, then we are the violent ones, lol.

Arthur.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Your leadership - which you alluded earlier you are a part of - praised Cameron you fool



No we didn't we said that perhaps he was waking up, but since then all we've heard is words and words are not enough.

Arthur.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2011)

Not everyone at a counter demo is UAF or MDL you do know that right?


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> No we didn't we said that perhaps he was waking up, but since then all we've heard is words and words are not enough.
> 
> Arthur.


 
And you think that Cameron or faith in any government moving to the right and 'getting tough on immigration' and 'kicking out teh Muslims' is really the answer to issues such as lack of jobs, low wages and erosion of worker rights, lack of social and affordable housing, etc??


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You use the word attack and there was no attack, the left attacked us first and made yourselves the enemy, we can't have a protest without the UAF and friends turning up and attacking us, throwing coins is their favourite, got hit my self at the support Wilders demo.
> So we can be attacked and should we defend ourselves, then we are the violent ones, lol.
> 
> Arthur.


 
The EDL targeted an anti-cuts stall in the North East, manned by people who had absolutely nothing to do with UAF. In fact they left the UAF supporting SWP's stall untouched. So why are the "pro-working class" EDL, whose leaders are IT millionaires and tanning salon owners with property portfolios (proper proles, eh?) targeting people who are trying to defend the working class? People who are not linked to UAF in any way?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> No we didn't we said that perhaps he was waking up, but since then all we've heard is words and words are not enough.
> 
> Arthur.


 
You praised Cameron at a time when he is spearheading the most vicious attack on the British working class in close to a century. At a time when youth can't get a job for love nor money, tens of millions of people are shitting it that they'll lose the jobs they have, our NHS is being sold off meaning the quality and length of our lives will be affected, working class kids are being effectively barred from further education, and your lot see fit to gush about the loathsome fucking prick at the heart of it.

Doesn't this tell you something Arthur? You are a part of a viciously anti-working class organisation. You are part of a scab organisation. You are on the side of the politicians and the bosses and the bankers. You are a mug.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 11, 2011)

Can't you answer any questions instead of constantly moving the goalposts, Arfur?  By condoning attacks on anti-fascists, do you agree then with those in the BNP, NF, BPP, Racial Volunteer Force, "Combat 18", Redwatch et al, who also support this line?  Ar you happy with the EDL and NF linking up in (for example) Newcastle, Arfur?


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You use the word attack and there was no attack, the left attacked us first and made yourselves the enemy, we can't have a protest without the UAF and friends turning up and attacking us, throwing coins is their favourite, got hit my self at the support Wilders demo.
> So we can be attacked and should we defend ourselves, then we are the violent ones, lol.
> 
> Arthur.



I'm sorry, but when you come into areas such as mine that have high unemployment and some social problems, but ultimately we all get along pretty well as a very mixed community, then fuel tensions by trying to make it about race/religion, when problems in my areas are about class, neo-liberalism, privatisation, cuts, chronic under investment, etc. I don't really know what you expect.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> You praised Cameron at a time when he is spearheading the most vicious attack on the British working class in close to a century. At a time when youth can't get a job for love nor money, tens of millions of people are shitting it that they'll lose the jobs they have, our NHS is being sold off meaning the quality and length of our lives will be affected, when working class kids is being effectively barred from further education, your lot see fit to gush about the loathsome fucking prick at the heart of it.
> 
> Doesn't this tell you something Arthur? You are a part of a viciously anti-working class organisation. You are part of a scab organisation. You are on the side of the politicians and the bosses and the bankers. You are a mug.


 
Which reminds me: why, Arthur, when the student demonstrators were trying to prevent the abolition of EMA (which only working class kids receive) and increases to tuition fees that would make it virtually impossible for working class kids to go to university without incurring massive debts, did the EDL openly denounce the students and side with the anti-working class establishment? They did this officially so you can't pretend it wasn't the "real" EDL - Tommeh made an official announcement to this effect.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> What are the EDL doing about the cuts which are closing the services ordinary people rely on, entrenching unemployment, causing pain and misery for millions, and creating the social conditions in which radical alternatives like, I dunno, jihadism, thrives, Arthur?
> 
> Is the answer sweet fuck all? Or more accurately, supporting the cuts, cos after all those pesky unions and communists and whatnot are against them? And what does this tell you about the sort of organisation you are a part of?
> 
> I'm not interested in finding proof that the EDL is racist. Everybody knows they are racist. You know they are racist. What I am interested in is why you are part of a viciously anti-working class organisation.



No, you are right, we are not doing anything about cuts etc because it is not in our remit, stopping the Islamification of our country is all we protest about, that is the only issue we are united on.
As for the cuts, you on the left allowed the government to run up a huge debt, we weren't even in politics, most had no interest, many did not vote, were not members of any political party, we just got on with our lives, none of us were that much aware of Islam until 9/11 and then 7/7 and that is when we began to wake up and realise the peril this country was in from the Islamists and now we are fighting back.

You may be fighting the cuts but you have also declared that you, the left, will stop us, so do you really expect us to come out on your side. Especially when you march with the Islamofascists, which I have to say is a mystery, homophobic, oppressors of women, genital mutilation, forced marriage and shari'ah law which has to be the most violent law on the planet. Perhaps we can look at postal voting fraud in places like Tower Hamlets, with Rahman now in charge of a 1.3 billion pound budget, which will be used to fund the IFE and the East London Mosque, mark my words.
So tell, how do you justify supporting these people and marching along side them, they are not your ordinary working class muslims, they want to impose their ideology on you, what happened to all the left wing students in Iran, dead or imprisoned, that's what happened to them.
Should they get the chance, that's what will happen to you.
Did they not attack the UAF in Tower Hamlets, why was that I wonder.

Arthur.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

So fuck all. Useless.


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

What is the islamification of our country, Arthur?

And pls spare us the faux concern bullshit when it comes to homophobia and misogyny, as groups such as EDL, BNP, and groups on the right aren't and will never be some kind of gay and women equality ambassadors.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> No, you are right, we are not doing anything about cuts etc because it is not in our remit, stopping the Islamification of our country is all we protest about, that is the only issue we are united on.
> As for the cuts, you on the left allowed the government to run up a huge debt, we weren't even in politics, most had no interest, many did not vote, were not members of any political party, we just got on with our lives, none of us were that much aware of Islam until 9/11 and then 7/7 and that is when we began to wake up and realise the peril this country was in from the Islamists and now we are fighting back.
> 
> You may be fighting the cuts but you have also declared that you, the left, will stop us, so do you really expect us to come out on your side. Especially when you march with the Islamofascists, which I have to say is a mystery, homophobic, oppressors of women, genital mutilation, forced marriage and shari'ah law which has to be the most violent law on the planet. Perhaps we can look at postal voting fraud in places like Tower Hamlets, with Rahman now in charge of a 1.3 billion pound budget, which will be used to fund the IFE and the East London Mosque, mark my words.
> ...


 
If you're pro working class why are you not doing anything to oppose th cuts? To defend the working class from the most aggressive attack since WW2? If you'e not, can you really claim to be pro-working class in anything but mouth?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> You praised Cameron at a time when he is spearheading the most vicious attack on the British working class in close to a century. At a time when youth can't get a job for love nor money, tens of millions of people are shitting it that they'll lose the jobs they have, our NHS is being sold off meaning the quality and length of our lives will be affected, working class kids are being effectively barred from further education, and your lot see fit to gush about the loathsome fucking prick at the heart of it.
> 
> Doesn't this tell you something Arthur? You are a part of a viciously anti-working class organisation. You are part of a scab organisation. You are on the side of the politicians and the bosses and the bankers. You are a mug.



Tommy did talk about Cameron today and I would not call it gushing.

The NHS, is this the NHS that has been starving old people to death, old people dying of thirst, yes first rate health service isn't it.
The NHS that leaves people dying in corridors.

Arthur.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> No, you are right, we are not doing anything about cuts etc because it is not in our remit, stopping the Islamification of our country is all we protest about, that is the only issue we are united on.
> As for the cuts, you on the left allowed the government to run up a huge debt, we weren't even in politics, most had no interest, many did not vote, were not members of any political party, we just got on with our lives, none of us were that much aware of Islam until 9/11 and then 7/7 and that is when we began to wake up and realise the peril this country was in from the Islamists and now we are fighting back.
> 
> You may be fighting the cuts but you have also declared that you, the left, will stop us, so do you really expect us to come out on your side. Especially when you march with the Islamofascists, which I have to say is a mystery, homophobic, oppressors of women, genital mutilation, forced marriage and shari'ah law which has to be the most violent law on the planet. Perhaps we can look at postal voting fraud in places like Tower Hamlets, with Rahman now in charge of a 1.3 billion pound budget, which will be used to fund the IFE and the East London Mosque, mark my words.
> ...


 
You're all over the place. You are very keen to distinguish yourself from the BNP, yet lump all sorts into what you term 'the left'.

I have never marched with an 'islamo-fascist' and at no point did I 'allow the government to run up a huge debt'. That you think the cuts are because the last Labour government, cunts that they were, built up a debt that needs to be paid shows you as the fucking wet mug you are. These cuts are not about paying off a debt, or reducing a deficit. They are about fucking me and mine and you and yours you simple twat.

You want to stop young muslims turning to the islamic right? Or, given your declared position on the BNP, young white people turning to the far right? Then we need to find jobs and homes and futures for them. The cuts are going to worsen the situation, create more alienation, more desperation, and lead to more people turning to faux-radical alternatives.

The cuts aren't in your remit? Not your job to fight for the interests of the people you claim to represent - the white working class - but bacon burgers are? You're a joke Arthur. You've about as much chance of bringing about change as a lone anchovy in the sahara.


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

What has any of this guff got to do with me and family arthur? My concerns are the normal w/c concerns - what are you doing about them? Telling me it's not your remit whilst brandishing your w/c credentials doesn't work. You're either pro-w/c , as you claim, or you're not. You're not are you?


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## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Tommy did talk about Cameron today and I would not call it gushing.
> 
> The NHS, is this the NHS that has been starving old people to death, old people dying of thirst, yes first rate health service isn't it.
> The NHS that leaves people dying in corridors.
> ...



Well done, an attack on the public sector.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Tommy did talk about Cameron today and I would not call it gushing.
> 
> The NHS, is this the NHS that has been starving old people to death, old people dying of thirst, yes first rate health service isn't it.
> The NHS that leaves people dying in corridors.
> ...


 
So what should we replace the NHS with, Arthur? Worse health-care run for profit by cunts like Bupa and Serco? A system where the only people who can get healthcare are the ones who can afford it?

Clueless. You're a scab.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur is the lead off boy for this shit too. The best one at it. I'd buy you a pint out of pure pity arthur.


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## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Fucking dire isn't it.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

Can't polish a turd


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2011)

you can if you freeze it


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> No, you are right, we are not doing anything about cuts etc because it is not in our remit, stopping the Islamification of our country is all we protest about, that is the only issue we are united on.
> As for the cuts, you on the left allowed the government to run up a huge debt, we weren't even in politics, most had no interest, many did not vote, were not members of any political party, we just got on with our lives, none of us were that much aware of Islam until 9/11 and then 7/7 and that is when we began to wake up and realise the peril this country was in from the Islamists and now we are fighting back.
> 
> You may be fighting the cuts but you have also declared that you, the left, will stop us, so do you really expect us to come out on your side. Especially when you march with the Islamofascists, which I have to say is a mystery, homophobic, oppressors of women, genital mutilation, forced marriage and shari'ah law which has to be the most violent law on the planet. Perhaps we can look at postal voting fraud in places like Tower Hamlets, with Rahman now in charge of a 1.3 billion pound budget, which will be used to fund the IFE and the East London Mosque, mark my words.
> ...


 
Who here "marches with the Islamists"? I haven't, ever, and I doubt if anyone else here has. It's all in your head. And because of your simplistic view of "the left" you end up attacking those who are really trying to defend the working class. All the EDL do is provide a convenient distraction from the real threats faced by working class people, attacks that are happening right now.

And by the way - if we "march with Islamists" you march with unapologetic nazis and fascists - hardly dungaree wearing feminists and certainly not defenders of gay rights - we can both play at that game.

And now you're paroting the Tory line that it was "labour's reckless spending", rather than the irresponsible gambling of (non-muslim) bankers and speculators that caused the debt. Are you intentionally reinforcing the lies the Tories are using to attack the living standards of the working class?

You may also be surprised to discover that the vast majority of posters on here detest the Labour Party.

You're useful idiots, scabs, scum.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Tommy did talk about Cameron today and I would not call it gushing.
> 
> The NHS, is this the NHS that has been starving old people to death, old people dying of thirst, yes first rate health service isn't it.
> The NHS that leaves people dying in corridors.
> ...


 
The NHS that's still ranked as one of the best in the world despite its chronic underfunding? That NHS? The NHS that spends about a third (off the top of my head - of someone has a more accurate figure please correct me) per capita that's spent in the USA yet still offers better provision across the board than its American counterpart? That NHS? And I suppose you think that Cameron cutting NHS funding and moving it much closer to the US model will improve it? You're a mug Arthur, sort yourself out.


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## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

stephj said:


> What is the islamification of our country, Arthur?
> 
> And pls spare us the faux concern bullshit when it comes to homophobia and misogyny, as groups such as EDL, BNP, and groups on the right aren't and will never be some kind of gay and women equality ambassadors.



Ah, the right, what is the right, you keep saying that we are on the right when the reality is we are not, we kicked C18s arse out of EDL, we made it clear to Stormfront that they were not wanted and the refer to us as a Zionist plot. Ha, the BNP would like to recruit us but they were told to get lost and Nick Griffin thinks we are a government funded group.
Then the Left come along and say we are in League with all these joke groups, we wouldn't be seen dead with them. We are the EDL, we have no need of the losers in these groups.
So it's right wing to oppose fascism and yes we do stand for womens right's and yes we have an LGBT division also, we live in the 21st century and so yes we oppose the oppression of woman, gays, black people, brown people, it matters not, we will defend them against the Ismalists.

Arthur.


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 11, 2011)

What is the right, what is the left, blah blah.

We're talking about what is pro-working class and what isn't. And you are not. You are a scab.


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Ah, the right, what is the right, you keep saying that we are on the right when the reality is we are not, we kicked C18s arse out of EDL, we made it clear to Stormfront that they were not wanted and the refer to us as a Zionist plot. Ha, the BNP would like to recruit us but they were told to get lost and Nick Griffin thinks we are a government funded group.
> Then the Left come along and say we are in League with all these joke groups, we wouldn't be seen dead with them. We are the EDL, we have no need of the losers in these groups.
> So it's right wing to oppose fascism and yes we do stand for womens right's and yes we have an LGBT division also, we live in the 21st century and so yes we oppose the oppression of woman, gays, black people, brown people, it matters not, we will defend them against the Ismalists.
> 
> Arthur.


 
I'm not saying you're in with these groups. What is the pro-working class content of your politics. You claimed pro-w/c politics as your legitimacy. Here and now. Where are they in relation to the cuts, not left or right.


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

Also, arthur2 , what is the left?


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## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

He must be compiling a long list.


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> The NHS, is this the NHS that has been starving old people to death, old people dying of thirst, yes first rate health service isn't it.
> The NHS that leaves people dying in corridors.
> 
> Arthur.


Arthur, where do you source your information from?  The above reads like it's purely from news headlines and links that are given to you by people with an agenda.

Do you have any idea of the number of people employed in the NHS, the number of patients, the number of episodes of care that are delivered every day, the resources that are available?  Do you have any idea of the context in which those headlines need to be set?

A few very straightforward questions though:

- What has the state of the NHS got to do with the EDL's agenda?
- What are the EDL doing to improve it?
- How well do you think NHS would function without the muslim and/or immigrant population of the UK?


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Ah, the right, what is the right, you keep saying that we are on the right when the reality is we are not, we kicked C18s arse out of EDL, we made it clear to Stormfront that they were not wanted and the refer to us as a Zionist plot. Ha, the BNP would like to recruit us but they were told to get lost and Nick Griffin thinks we are a government funded group.
> Then the Left come along and say we are in League with all these joke groups, we wouldn't be seen dead with them. We are the EDL, we have no need of the losers in these groups.
> So it's right wing to oppose fascism and yes we do stand for womens right's and yes we have an LGBT division also, we live in the 21st century and so yes we oppose the oppression of woman, gays, black people, brown people, it matters not, we will defend them against the Ismalists.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Still waiting for your comments on prolier than thou Tommy Robinson's tanning salon and property portfolio, Alan Lake's muti-million IT business/links with the openly racist Sweden Democrats, the EDL attacking anti-cuts activists who are in no way linked with UAF and their denunciation of the student protestors, who were defending the right of working class kids to get a decent education. I won't hold my breath though.


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## TruXta (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Ah, the right, what is the right, you keep saying that we are on the right when the reality is we are not, we kicked C18s arse out of EDL, we made it clear to Stormfront that they were not wanted and the refer to us as a Zionist plot. Ha, the BNP would like to recruit us but they were told to get lost and Nick Griffin thinks we are a government funded group.
> Then the Left come along and say we are in League with all these joke groups, we wouldn't be seen dead with them. We are the EDL, we have no need of the losers in these groups.
> So it's right wing to oppose fascism and yes we do stand for womens right's and yes we have an LGBT division also, we live in the 21st century and so yes we oppose the oppression of woman, gays, black people, brown people, it matters not, we will defend them against the Ismalists.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Tell me, where is this supposed mosque being built on Ground Zero?


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## Arthur2 (Jun 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> If you're pro working class why are you not doing anything to oppose th cuts? To defend the working class from the most aggressive attack since WW2? If you'e not, can you really claim to be pro-working class in anything but mouth?



The Islamist are the biggest threat to this country, whole areas are already Islamic, TM being a prime example.
First they hold a fake referendum for a mayor, the electoral commission found 40% were fraudulent but still they passed it, then Rahman wanted to be Labours candidate but Labour found he was connected to extremist and kicked him out at the same time an independent journalist was beaten up because he was inquiring about 18 people registered to vote from a 2 bed flat, so then Rahman stands as an independent with the backing of the extreme IFE and not forgetting red Ken. With all the postal voting fraud and with, for some reason, a very low turnout he wins. Surprise surprise.

Now there are more gays attacked, posters blacked out, gay free stickers and being threatened for dressing un-Islamically, School teacher beaten within an inch of his life.
Do you think the school will allow him to continue to teach Islam, no, they will bring in a muslim, appeasing the Islamist. There is more than that, but that's the gist.

This is what you will be supporting if you stand along side these people, how foolish, they hate you, they do not believe in any form of democracy, they just use it for own ends. All religions are dodgy but this one has a political Ideology that will never cease to gain it's own way, not the ordinary muslim, these are fanatics and you don't need an awful lot of them to cause mayhem.

Arthur.


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## stethoscope (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> The Islamist are the biggest threat to this country, whole areas are already Islamic, TM being a prime example.


 
There's cuts going on, the working class are being fucked over. Public services being put out to privatisation and marketisation. Meanwhile, we're run by a small elite of rich cunts and banks are making millions.

Islamists are not the biggest threat to this country.


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## malatesta32 (Jun 11, 2011)

The EDL clearly overstretched themselves today with a dismal 100 in Maidenhead and 250 in Dewsbury. They will of course say ‘blah blah blah not national demos ... etc’ but this will not disguise the fact that they are losing members rapdily through boredom and infighting. On their forum they now openly admit they are riven by factionalism and that the infighting is getting well out of hand so are calling for unity. They will not get it. Like the far right in any other guise they can never agree on anything. 
The EDL leadership have to show they are being less pliant and want to stop liaising with the cops to prevent the more aggressive elements from disappearing as they know they have yet to achieve anything and many are fed up of being bussed in and kettled for several hours before being bussed out again. Plod split the Dewsbury demo up today and sent a bunch off to Leeds before they got to the meet. Those who were left ended up being hustled into a car park despite their boasts that ‘we ain’t gonna get hustled into no carparks nor nuffink.’ Wrong. 
They were outnumbered by plod today on both counts. Pisspoor really for all their blether. They have called a demo in Tower Hamlets on the same day that Notting Hill carnival and footie matches are on so there is likelihood of it not going ahead but they can still claim they meant to go but were prevened by plod. If they had the bottle, they would do one of their flash demos there and see what happens. 
They still think all who oppose them are UAF and that all antifascists side with muslamic extremists which demonstrates their massive political naivety. 
As for little Arfur, he is so desperate to distance himself from the well documented racism on the forums that he is beginning to sounds like he is out of the loop. His denial of BNP links sounds ridiculous when it was clearly documented that the EDL (Barnsely? Newcastle?) ‘protected’ a BNP stall recently from beastly trade unionists. Many posters on VNNuk and stormfront (rhyming slang?) admit to going along to demos and say that many others on demos support the BNP. And posters on their own forum openly show support for the BNP.  And yaxley-lennon? Not very working class name that is it?


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2011)

No one reads your stuff either.

((youtube)))(((facebook)))(((twitpic))))


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> The Islamist are the biggest threat to this country, whole areas are already Islamic, TM being a prime example.
> First they hold a fake referendum for a mayor, the electoral commission found 40% were fraudulent but still they passed it, then Rahman wanted to be Labours candidate but Labour found he was connected to extremist and kicked him out at the same time an independent journalist was beaten up because he was inquiring about 18 people registered to vote from a 2 bed flat, so then Rahman stands as an independent with the backing of the extreme IFE and not forgetting red Ken. With all the postal voting fraud and with, for some reason, a very low turnout he wins. Surprise surprise.
> 
> Now there are more gays attacked, posters blacked out, gay free stickers and being threatened for dressing un-Islamically, School teacher beaten within an inch of his life.
> ...


 
1) How many people have "Islamist" (if you're so keen on "Engerlund" maybe you should learn the language - we use an "s" to denote the plural) killed in this country? Compared with malnurishment, child poverty, health inequalities, the suicide, mental health problems and drug problems that are inevitable when people have no prospects? Bugger all in comparison, that's how many. What you talk of here is electoral fraud - it's been done many times before and will be done again - you just focus on one example because it was done by Muslims. Is it OK when it's non-Muslims who do it?

2) How many far-right extremists, extremists who, no matter how many times you try to deny it, are prominent in the EDL, have attacked gays, people dressing "inappropriately", etc? Bear this in mind - both Tommeh and Kev are ex-BNP. Alan Lake supports, has contributed money to, has advised and has spoken at the meetings of another such group - the Sweden Democrats. You march with these people - is it OK when it's white people who do it?

3) Nobody is standing beside "these people". Here's something that may confuse your tiny little mind - opposition to the EDL does not constitute support for Anjem Choudary.

You twat.

Again, can you please explain the following:

"Working class credentials of the EDL":
Tommeh "I'm proper working class" Robinson's tanning salon and property portfolio.
Alan Lakes multi-million pound IT business - he's the man pulling the strings - don't you think his interests are a little different from those of the working class?
The EDL's attacks on anti-cuts activists, who are defending the interests of the working class and have nothing whatsoever to do with UAF or "Islamist"(sic).
Can you explain why the EDL are on record as saying that they don't mind bankers receiving obscene bonuses provided they are English, despite the fact that its their incompetence that led to the debt that's being used as justification for attacks on the living standards of the working class?

This is the fourth time of asking now Arthur - it's rude to ignore people when they're speaking to you. And I thought good manners were supposed to be the cornerstone of "Englishness".


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## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> because it is not in our remit, stopping the Islamification of our country is all we protest about,




So you did not protest about paedos last weekend and didn't waste a month making arses of yourself outside KFC becasue you don;t like halal. I have already dispelled this bullshit on the last page so please try to stop making a twat of yourself.


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## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Oh and can you explain why skinheaded thugs from your Merseyside Division attacked a women run working class bookshop last week and scared the shit out of the ladies who worked there?

And maybe you would like to answer the points people have made here instead of cherry picking small parts and giving it lame answers.

To be honest, every post you make seems to be distancing yourself from the core EDL more and more, maybe you should think about leaving the EDL and regaining some of your self respect.


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## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Love this pisstake


----------



## albionism (Jun 12, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> You praised Cameron at a time when he is spearheading the most vicious attack on the British working class in close to a century. At a time when youth can't get a job for love nor money, tens of millions of people are shitting it that they'll lose the jobs they have, our NHS is being sold off meaning the quality and length of our lives will be affected, working class kids are being effectively barred from further education, and your lot see fit to gush about the loathsome fucking prick at the heart of it.
> 
> Doesn't this tell you something Arthur? You are a part of a viciously anti-working class organisation. You are part of a scab organisation. You are on the side of the politicians and the bosses and the bankers. You are a mug.


 
Spot on..If the EDL didn't exist, the Tories would have to invent them.  Utter muppet.


----------



## revlon (Jun 12, 2011)

edl singing harry roberts in dewsbury. Cute


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## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

http://www.windsorobserver.co.uk/ne...11/06/11/52529-edl-protest-passes-peacefully/


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## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Love this pisstake




Lol


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur, when you're back from church, an answer on the questions as regrads the edl and the working class would be welcome.


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Lol


 
Innit.

Cross-dressing as Muslim women. 

Not sure why people are bothering to engage with Arthur, he's clearly deluded and in denial.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You use the word attack and there was no attack, the left attacked us first and made yourselves the enemy, we can't have a protest without the UAF and friends turning up and attacking us, throwing coins is their favourite, got hit my self at the support Wilders demo.
> So we can be attacked and should we defend ourselves, then we are the violent ones, lol.
> 
> Arthur.



Bullshit, you lot have been attacking left-wing meetings and vandalising stalls etc up and down the country. Do you think that bursting into a KFC meeting because of your weird obsession with bacon is helping working class people or anyone else for that matter? Is that the best you can do? Pathetic . 

and you say you're a "single issue group" ive got news for you, the fact that you focus on that "single issue" to the exclusion of everything else places you on the right, because your views and attitudes help to perpetuate divisions . i don't like to use this word lightly as theres a good chance i might go on strike at some stage - but proper tidy is right when he says that you are a member of a scab organisation. Your organisation is not doing anything to "help", it is doing nothing but make the job of cameron and co easier. do you not think that issues such as islamic extremism - and far right extremism - are made worse by social conditions, social conditions that the man you praise for being "brave" enough to have a go at the muzzies like every other politician is doing - is making so much worse. 

Let's not forget too, attacking muslims is not new, it is not original, it is not some unspoken truth that nobody is allowed to speak about. the far right have become a sort of "loyal opposition" over the years, to the extent that mainstream politicians are now saying similar stuff - as cameron did. the far right have to some extent succeeded in racialising public discourse and sharpening those divisions that exist, to the extent that views such as yours have become almost mainstream in "polite society." 

When we have european countries introducing laws against muslim cultural and religious expression the likes of which were last seen in western europe 70 years ago, when we have a french president who is banning burkhas and niqabs, when we have countries banning minarets on mosques, you can hardly say its an inconvenient truth nobodys allowed to talk about, you can hardly say it is "the left" that is controlling the debate over the issue and unfairly calling you racist, the very fact that they have introduced these policies and at the same time carrying brutal so-called austerity measures out demonstrates that your particular breed of fascism is not unwelcome or despised by those in power, it's hardly the case that muslims are the biggest threat and this is somehow being "ignored" is it?? It's a lie. It's bullshit. 

And interesting you choose to pick up on one word and not address the rest of my post. What you doing to fight the cuts arthur?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Innit.
> 
> Cross-dressing as Muslim women.
> 
> Not sure why people are bothering to engage with Arthur, he's clearly deluded and in denial.


 
It's not him we're bothering for. but for anyone who may be reading.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 12, 2011)

> The Islamist are the biggest threat to this country, whole areas are already Islamic,



There are whole areas in this country that are Tory. Your point?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> No, you are right, we are not doing anything about cuts etc because it is not in our remit, stopping the Islamification of our country is all we protest about, that is the only issue we are united on.
> As for the cuts, you on the left allowed the government to run up a huge debt, we weren't even in politics, most had no interest, many did not vote, were not members of any political party, we just got on with our lives, none of us were that much aware of Islam until 9/11 and then 7/7 and that is when we began to wake up and realise the peril this country was in from the Islamists and now we are fighting back.
> 
> You may be fighting the cuts but you have also declared that you, the left, will stop us, so do you really expect us to come out on your side. Especially when you march with the Islamofascists, which I have to say is a mystery, homophobic, oppressors of women, genital mutilation, forced marriage and shari'ah law which has to be the most violent law on the planet. Perhaps we can look at postal voting fraud in places like Tower Hamlets, with Rahman now in charge of a 1.3 billion pound budget, which will be used to fund the IFE and the East London Mosque, mark my words.
> ...


 
It's not in your remit ? What shit is that? 

As you say yourself, as is teh excuse trotted out every time, we can't help who comes on demos any more than you can. yes there have been some on the left , like the SWP, who have cosied up to islamists at various points, but you have a fucking nerve to complain about that when you allied yourself with jewish and christian fundamentalists and the settler movement in Israel, some of whom have treated women appallingly, have treated black people appallingly and heaven forbid you say that you are gay them. Btw it's not just Muslims (and a very small number of them at that) who carry out fgm, it happens all over eastern and northern africa, christians and followers of tribal religions also do it, in fact many imams recently came out against it. It was being done in the West on a doctors' prescription up until about 80 years ago as well. 

What the hell are you talking about, if we allowed the gov't to run a huge debt, then so did you.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 12, 2011)

Well said, on both posts froggy!


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## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

albionism said:


> Spot on..If the EDL didn't exist, the Tories would have to invent them.  Utter muppet.


 
As has been the history with every far right/fascist movement in history.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur's just a gullible, useful idiot. It's the likes of Alan Lake who are pulling the strings - some "pro-working class" organisation that is - coordinated by a multi-millionaire IT man and fronted by a tanning salon owner with a property portfolio. No wonder they're not fighting the cuts - not exactly in the interests of the rich boys who run the EDL, is it?


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

Forget Alan Lake, he's more irrelevant than Arthur ever could be. Forget the model of secret string pullers and look at what these prats are an expression of.


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## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

I bought a couple of houses


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## revlon (Jun 12, 2011)

the likes of us?


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

I still think it's worth pointing out that Tommy Robinson, who is always banging on about how working class he is, owns a tanning salon and boasted about his history as a professional businessman and his property portfolio in that video where he "dispelled the myths" spread by the infidels or whatever they call themselves who said he was stealing money from the membership. If only for the hypocrisy of it all.


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## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur, I see you're logged on - any answers then? Particularly about class/working class.

I see in your profile, you're a "retired business man".


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## revlon (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I still think it's worth pointing out that Tommy Robinson, who is always banging on about how working class he is, owns a tanning salon and boasted about his history as a professional businessman and his property portfolio in that video where he "dispelled the myths" spread by the infidels or whatever they call themselves who said he was stealing money from the membership. If only for the hypocrisy of it all.


 
any less hypocritical than alex callinicos' relationship to the working class?


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

revlon said:


> any less hypocritical than alex callinicos' relationship to the working class?


 
Probably not, but then again I'm not fan of Callinicos either. Although at least he doesn't play the prolier than thou card at every opportunity.


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## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I still think it's worth pointing out that Tommy Robinson, who is always banging on about how working class he is, owns a tanning salon and boasted about his history as a professional businessman and his property portfolio in that video where he "dispelled the myths" spread by the infidels or whatever they call themselves who said he was stealing money from the membership. If only for the hypocrisy of it all.


 
He probably still is tbf. Stealing , that is


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Well his bank accounts have been frozen and he has to pay for his coke habit somehow.


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## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon lol ...


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

That's just another alias. His real name is Tarquin Fotherington-Smythe.


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## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

you know there are people around called tarquin lol? i always thought that was just a joke.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

I thought it Viz invented it for the "Modern Parents". I have never met anyone called Tarquin, even at university.


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## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur has surrendered me thinks


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Arthur has surrendered me thinks


 
I hope not. I don't know about anyone else but I'm on the verge of being converted to the cause. I think Urban could be a useful recruiting ground for the EDL.


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## Arthur2 (Jun 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Bullshit, you lot have been attacking left-wing meetings and vandalising stalls etc up and down the country. Do you think that bursting into a KFC meeting because of your weird obsession with bacon is helping working class people or anyone else for that matter? Is that the best you can do? Pathetic .
> 
> and you say you're a "single issue group" ive got news for you, the fact that you focus on that "single issue" to the exclusion of everything else places you on the right, because your views and attitudes help to perpetuate divisions . i don't like to use this word lightly as theres a good chance i might go on strike at some stage - but proper tidy is right when he says that you are a member of a scab organisation. Your organisation is not doing anything to "help", it is doing nothing but make the job of cameron and co easier. do you not think that issues such as islamic extremism - and far right extremism - are made worse by social conditions, social conditions that the man you praise for being "brave" enough to have a go at the muzzies like every other politician is doing - is making so much worse.
> 
> ...



There is clearly, an animal welfare issue with both Halal and Kosher and our campaign is to high light the cruelty involved in the slaughter of these animals.
There is also the matter of consumer choice, how can we make a choice if Halal meat is not labelled as such, so that consumers can reject buying it.
In many schools, up and down the country children are being fed Halal to appease the minority and there again is no choice, recently an old peoples home had bacon withdrawn because the new owner was a muslim.
We see places like KFC helping in The stealth Islamification of the country by making the cruel practices of Halal slaughter acceptable to the mainstream of society.
What is the point of having welfare rules on the slaughter of animals if religion is exempted, there should be one law for all with no exceptions.

Are not the anti cuts people a one issue pressure group, was not the students march about one issue then, does that make them far right or is it that it is an issue they feel they should be protesting about.
Yes, it is giving our working class lads and lasses a voice for the first time and allowing them to see that no one can take that away from them and that is a very empowering thing.

No social conditions have nothing to do with it, one of the 7/7 was a teacher, the Glasgow airport guy was a Doctor, the Christmas day bomber was a university student, many of these people are well educated, almost middle class, so you are trying to perpetrate a myth that these radicals are deprived poverty stricken working class. It is their ideology that drives them to murder and mayhem.

The Islamification has been very much hidden and swept under the carpet, police standing back and allowing things to go on because some how to uphold the law would undermine community cohesion and leave them open to accusations of racism and that weasel word Islamaphobia.
Politicians are waking up to the fact that a lot of people are very worried about this issue and that there is a major problem, they are being forced to listen. Which is what EDL are all about.
Good, I'm pleased that "polite" society is now discussing this, it proves that we are right.

Yes, Europe is also waking up to the threat of Islamification and how dangerous this political and religious ideology is, it is without doubt an extreme facsist ideology and their influence needs to be stopped.
When EDL first started, yes it was being ignored and we have brought it out into the open, where it can be debated.

I have not said that Muslims are a threat, it's the political ideology of the Islamists that are the threat, far bigger than the cuts that this government will bring about because we all know that it will all come full circle again when the Tories fall out of favour and Labour are back in again and will undue what the Tories have done.
However the Islamification of this country will not and cannot be undone once it gets a hold. You can clearly se how it's going by looking at Tower Hamlets, a huge amount of intolerance to non muslims and Muslims alike.

One victim, Mohammed Monzur Rahman, said he was left partially blind and with a dislocated shoulder after being attacked by a mob in Cannon Street Road, Shadwell, for smoking during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan last year.
“Two guys stopped me in the street and asked me why I was smoking,” he said. “I just carried on, and before I knew another dozen guys came and jumped me. The next thing I knew, I was waking up in hospital.”

Tower Hamlets’ gay community has become a particular target of extremists. Homophobic crimes in the borough have risen by 80 per cent since 2007/8, and by 21 per cent over the last year, a period when there was a slight drop in London as a whole.

You will see these things increasing in the next year or two, innocent people having their lives made a misery and you tell me that anyone who fight against this sort of thing is some how a right wing scab.
Who is fighting for the rights of these people then? Certainly not you on the left, you're leaving them to drown because you are boxed in by your own ideology, until of course they come for you and unlike Cameron, you won't be able to vote them out.

No I'm not doing anything to fight the cuts because Labour or Tory they will happen.

Arthur.


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## Arthur2 (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I hope not. I don't know about anyone else but I'm on the verge of being converted to the cause. I think Urban could be a useful recruiting ground for the EDL.



Lol.

Arthur.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> No I'm not doing anything to fight the cuts because Labour or Tory they will happen.


 
I don't have the time at the moment to read all that crap, but this bit sticks out - you're essentially saying that working class people are incapable of shaping the future in any way. The cuts can be stopped - if we make sure that the lives of those at the top are more difficult, and their privilege under more threat, if they do cut than if they don't then they won't cut. You're saying that the working class are so powerless that we can't have any influence over the politics of this country. If that's the case how then can the "working class" EDL effect the way the government deals with "Islamisation"? Taking your deluded narrative at face value, when we speak of "Islamification" we could equally say "Labour or Tory it will happen".

If we follow this logic nobody will ever do anything. The EDL is just as pointless as the anti-cuts movement. It's also interesting that your imagination doesn't stretch beyond the old Labour/Tory divide.

Then you say that when Labour get back in they'll undo the Tory cuts, totally contradicting yourself. So they'll undo it just the same as they "undid" Thatcher's privatisation and anti-union laws? I think you need to have another look Arthur - Labour didn't undo what the Tories did, they continued it. Pillock.

And are the cuts, which directly target the working class, more or less likely to happen if the EDL attack anti-cuts activists? And if you're a single issue group focusing on Islamification why attack activists who have nothing to do with political Islam or UAF? Strikes me that it's not so single issue.

Anyway, nobody asked you to post a load of irrelevant bollocks about Islamic extremists - you were asked to justify the anti-working class actions of the EDL. And now, for the fifth time, I request that you answer those questions.


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> <snip>
> 
> You will see these things increasing in the next year or two, innocent people having their lives made a misery and you tell me that anyone who fight against this sort of thing is some how a right wing scab.
> Who is fighting for the rights of these people then? Certainly not you on the left, you're leaving them to drown because you are boxed in by your own ideology, until of course they come for you and unlike Cameron, you won't be able to vote them out.
> ...



There is no class basis to your movement. It's not in support of the w/c.


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## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Tower Hamlets’ gay community has become a particular target of extremists. Homophobic crimes in the borough have risen by 80 per cent since 2007/8, and by 21 per cent over the last year, a period when there was a slight drop in London as a whole.



Now admittedly I'm in neighbouring Newham (which has also sadly has seen a rise in homophobic attacks), but unless you're party to figures I've never seen, can you prove that such homophobic attacks in the areas are being overwhemingly perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam? Homophobic crime is up across all London boroughs and has been for the last few years.

One extremist has been recently charged for the 'gay free zone' stickers that went up around the East End. Whilst not particularly happy about the rise in homophobia in London, it seems that the EDL plus other groups response just predictably and lazily uses it to justify it's own agenda. The point is, in my time in East London, I've been attacked by the NF, and experienced homophobia from Christian groups. Are you doing something about this Arthur?


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

stephj said:


> Now admittedly I'm in neighbouring Newham (which has also sadly has seen a rise in homophobic attacks), but unless you're party to figures I've never seen, can you prove that such homophobic attacks in the areas are being overwhemingly perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam? Homophobic crime is up across all London boroughs and has been for the last few years.
> 
> One extremist has been recently charged for the 'gay free zone' stickers that went up around the East End. Whilst not particularly happy about the rise in homophobia in London, it seems that the EDL plus other groups response just predictably and lazily uses it to justify it's own agenda. The point is, in my time in East London, I've been attached by the NF, and by Christian groups. Are you doing something about this Arthur?


 
That's good old English homophobia - part of our culture so it's different.


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## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Are not the anti cuts people a one issue pressure group, was not the students march about one issue then, does that make them far right or is it that it is an issue they feel they should be protesting about.
> 
> Yes, it is giving our working class lads and lasses a voice for the first time and allowing them to see that no one can take that away from them and that is a very empowering thing.
> 
> ...



You're not speaking for 'our working class lads and lasses'. Otherwise you'd be fighting against cuts, etc. not wanting them to vent their frustrations at immigrants.

And of course you're not doing anything to fight the cuts, you're a 'retired business man'.


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## Serotonin (Jun 12, 2011)

stephj said:


> And of course you're not doing anything to fight the cuts, you're a 'retired business man'.


 
Who thinks that NHS is terrible


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## LetsbyAvenue (Jun 12, 2011)

stephj said:


> Now admittedly I'm in neighbouring Newham (which has also sadly has seen a rise in homophobic attacks), but unless you're party to figures I've never seen, can you prove that such homophobic attacks in the areas are being overwhemingly perpetrated by Muslims in the name of Islam?



I can't prove that the creatures I can hear barking in the distance are dogs, but it's rather probable because there are a lot of dogs in the neighbourhood, and barking is something that dogs do. 

_"Homophobic crime is up across all London boroughs and has been for the last few years."_ 

And so are London boroughs' Muslim populations. Could there just possibly be a connection?


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## Fedayn (Jun 12, 2011)

LetsbyAvenue said:


> I can't prove that the creatures I can hear barking in the distance are dogs, but it's rather probable because there are a lot of dogs in the neighbourhood, and barking is something that dogs do.
> 
> _"Homophobic crime is up across all London boroughs and has been for the last few years."_
> 
> And so are London boroughs' Muslim populations. Could there just possibly be a connection?


 
You understand the difference between causation and correlation don't you?


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## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

LetsbyAvenue said:


> I can't prove that the creatures I can hear barking in the distance are dogs, but it's rather probable because there are a lot of dogs in the neighbourhood, and barking is something that dogs do.
> 
> _"Homophobic crime is up across all London boroughs and has been for the last few years."_
> 
> And so are London boroughs' Muslim populations. Could there just possibly be a connection?


 
Good grief.


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

LetsbyAvenue said:


> I can't prove that the creatures I can hear barking in the distance are dogs, but it's rather probable because there are a lot of dogs in the neighbourhood, and barking is something that dogs do.
> 
> _"Homophobic crime is up across all London boroughs and has been for the last few years."_
> 
> And so are London boroughs' Muslim populations. Could there just possibly be a connection?



OK, evidence for the second and geographical connection if true. Mr 999.


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## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2011)

Beating up gays is also something the far-right do.


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

Who said:



> "Homophobic crime is up across all London boroughs and has been for the last few years."



?


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## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

I did. Tbf, I'm not sure it's all but the last time I looked at the figures reported homophobic crimes was up in London boroughs.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It's quite common for the ANL to kill National Front members in europe?
> 
> Which one are you btw?


 
Sorry for the derail, but is it just me or does the one with the long hair have a ridiculously long neck? It's probably the evolutionary result of several generations of wankers trying to look over the doors of womens' changing rooms. Interestingly, the curly haired one has no neck at all - I don't know if the two are linked in any way.


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

stephj said:


> I did. Tbf, I'm not sure it's all but the last time I looked at the figures reported homophobic crimes was up in London boroughs.


 
Fair does. Do you relate that to unproven levels of muslimity without reference to location though? Because that's what you really need to do.


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## Anudder Oik (Jun 12, 2011)

> The EDL that I support are the real working classes, not the pretend working classes that have taken over the



The working class is made up of millions of people in Britain and their is great diversity amongst it. Not all white working class go about parading as thugs. In fact it's only a minority who do that. The people on your demos are drawn from the least sussed elements of the WC. Lazy minded bitter people who can't be arsed to have a knowledge of what's really going down in the UK. They are people who came together thru a common dislike for foreigners. Racists basically. The EDL does not represent the working class at all. 




> You on the left see us as hooligans,skin head, uneducated mob and that is so far from reality that it's unbelievable, we are a very diverse group of people from all parts of the working classes and political spectrum and we may not be very sophisticated, we make mistakes,



Sorry but I think skinheads were more sussed than your lot. They had a better dress sense anyway (Talkin about the 78 to 82 revival lot). As for uneducated mob, what do you call people who's only education is thru the lies of the Star newspaper? It appears that anyone with more than GSE woodwork under their belt is somehow middle class in your book.

You are nowhere near a diverse group. What diversity?


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## Anudder Oik (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Sorry for the derail, but is it just me or does the one with the long hair have a ridiculously long neck? It's probably the evolutionary result of several generations of wankers trying to look over the doors of womens' changing rooms. Interestingly, the curly haired one has no neck at all - I don't know if the two are linked in any way.



I think your getting them mixed up with the muppets...oh,my mistake, they are muppets.


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## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Fair does. Do you relate that to unproven levels of muslimity without reference to location though? Because that's what you really need to do.


 
Well, it was a response to Arthur's constant assertions that somehow homophobic crimes are increasing in certain areas (Tower Hamlets being his favourite), directly because of the Muslim population in those areas and Islam. I wanted some evidence.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

I have close shaven hair, dress casually, like football and left school at 16. Does that mean I'm a member of the "real working classes" Arthur? By the way, why working classes plural? Surely there is only one working class?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 12, 2011)

It's to distinguish poor folk from those that make an ok living. Goes back a long way, divide and rule and all that.


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Fair does. Do you relate that to unproven levels of muslimity without reference to location though? Because that's what you really need to do.


 
I know. I meant that this what Arthur was doing - not you.


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## everythingedl (Jun 12, 2011)

Oh, THAT Arthur Disbury? The one that's currently on a hate-speech charge? Best ignore him then...


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

4 in one weekend. Have they no carling to drink? 

edit: Actually. even worse we've now got the UAF chasers.


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## everythingedl (Jun 12, 2011)

Disbury in action last year. Has anyone ever played 'The Cuffers Drinking Game?'

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xbMZXkjY9Zw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur - assuming you haven't surrendered (but I'll be brief in case you have):

When did you first realise the EDL were being used as a front for recruiting nazis and fascists? What did you do about it?

After you marched along with people chanting racist slogans did you still get a thrill and sense of relevance out of being in such a group? Why?

And, as others have asked, what are the pro working class actions of your group? I have yet to see any EDL in anti cuts actions or demos, trying to save our services that we have paid for. Why is that?

What has been your positive contribution to English culture? (going on a pissed up demo to shout rabble nonsense doesn't count as positive, I'm talking about genuine cultural pursuits and interests)


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## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

Oh they're all appearing now!


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

everythingedl said:


> Oh, THAT Arthur Disbury? The one that's currently on a hate-speech charge? Best ignore him then...


 Thank you for saving us M.


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## PresentArse! (Jun 12, 2011)

Hi Arthur *waves* Devon and Cornwall police were very interested in my Tweets the other day, they are quite interested in your Twitter page too. I have also helpfully supplied them with some screenshots and the link to your Flickr account, as well as the details of your account here. 
Have a nice day


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

Oh god, now we get all this fucking kiddy shit on here.

*youtube*

**facebook**


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## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2011)

http://www.iengage.org.uk/component...r-publishing-islamophobic-material-on-the-net

This was him i think?


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

This must be liken xmas come early bob!


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I don't have the time at the moment to read all that crap, but this bit sticks out - you're essentially saying that working class people are incapable of shaping the future in any way. The cuts can be stopped - if we make sure that the lives of those at the top are more difficult, and their privilege under more threat, if they do cut than if they don't then they won't cut. You're saying that the working class are so powerless that we can't have any influence over the politics of this country. If that's the case how then can the "working class" EDL effect the way the government deals with "Islamisation"? Taking your deluded narrative at face value, when we speak of "Islamification" we could equally say "Labour or Tory it will happen".
> 
> If we follow this logic nobody will ever do anything. The EDL is just as pointless as the anti-cuts movement. It's also interesting that your imagination doesn't stretch beyond the old Labour/Tory divide.
> 
> ...



A million people marched against the war in Iraq, did it make one jot of difference, no it did not. Will the cuts campaign succeed, no it won't.
EDL are not campaigning to change the whole government policy, just a bit of it where Islamists are concerned and that's why we are succeeding and you are not.

You know and I know that this government has no choice to make cuts, they have to stay within IMF rules if they want to keep the countries credit rating, if they go after big business for the money, big business will leave and then we are in even bigger trouble.

So who ever was in government would have to make cuts. What is the alternative?

Also the government can't see any votes from your lot, you would never vote for them, whereas, they, mistakenly, believe we can some how be turned, same as Labour, via Glasman, who want to reach out to the EDL, they too think we can be turned. So there are votes in it for both of these parties.

I've watched this cycle from Macmillan onwards and it has always come full circle and you will never change it, short of a revolution and that is not on the cards.

EDL are not anti working class, they are the working class. This is what you're afraid to admit. The unions are full of public service middle classes, many of them in non jobs and getting well paid for it, gold plated pensions.

Many of the true working classes can't get jobs anymore, ex minors, steel workers, dumped with no help from government, on the dole for rest of their lives, government would rather bring in people than teach them the skills they need to compete for the jobs that are available.
Where were the unions fighting for unskilled British workers to have training opportunities, no where to be found. But now all those middle class in the public sector are at risk of losing their plum jobs and are yelling blue murder.
I watched the so called boiler makers union march, bet not one of them had ever touched a boiler in their lives.

We are the working class, not you pretend lot.

Arthur.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This must be liken xmas come early bob!


 
Still not back into it to be honest... this last few weeks been so busy with study i need to wind back up... ya get me?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur, why will you not address my post about the Liverpool Division attacking a bookshop in Liverpool and the attacks on stalls around the country?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

In fact Arthur, why won;t you address any of the posts that make you feel very uncomfortable about belonging to an organisation full of brownshirts?


----------



## Blagsta (Jun 12, 2011)

Middle class public sector workers, like dinner ladies, bin men, health care assistants.


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## Arthur2 (Jun 12, 2011)

everythingedl said:


> Oh, THAT Arthur Disbury? The one that's currently on a hate-speech charge? Best ignore him then...



I am not the above, thank you.

Arthur.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

One hilarity:



> Also the government can't see any votes from your lot, you would never vote for them, whereas, they, mistakenly, believe we can some how be turned, same as Labour, via Glasman, who want to reach out to the EDL, they too think we can be turned. So there are votes in it for both of these parties.



You have no votes and what you have are where? Worth what? The white w/c are already labour - you can't do anything for the labour party electorally. You can't do anything for anyone electorally. You're meaningless. People like who you think you are, sure. That social niche. Not you. Not ever.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> In fact Arthur, why won;t you address any of the posts that make you feel very uncomfortable about belonging to an organisation full of brownshirts?


 

Arthur?


----------



## Corax (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> We are the working class, not you pretend lot.





Arthur2 said:


> Many of the true working classes can't get jobs anymore, ex minors, steel workers, dumped with no help from government, on the dole for rest of their lives, government would rather bring in people than teach them the skills they need to compete for the jobs that are available.


I'm an ex-minor, as are several of the other people on this thread, and you certainly don't speak for me.


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## Arthur2 (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Arthur, why will you not address my post about the Liverpool Division attacking a bookshop in Liverpool and the attacks on stalls around the country?



The report I had was that they occupied it for a short while and it was not an attack.
http://www.blightyandy.co.uk/2011/05/uk-uncut-protest-in-newcastle/

Despite a low-key Police presence the demonstration passed off peacefully without any disruption. The action in London seems to have passed off surprisingly peaceful, especially as the media portrayed UK uncut as the cause of disorder on the 26 March rally, when in reality they only supported the peaceful occupation of Fortnum & Mason. This kind of peaceful and colorful direct action is hardly the biggest crime in the world.

Is this the one you're talking about.

Arthur.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Beating up gays is also something the far-right do.


 
Whatever the skin-colour of the rightist(s) doing the beating.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Arthur?



Brownshirts, wow, cable street all over again, we're not Brownshirts or anything like them. UAF are closer to being fascist than us, we seek no power.

Arthur.


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## Arthur2 (Jun 12, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Whatever the skin-colour of the rightist(s) doing the beating.



I've never beaten up anyone in all my life.

Arthur.


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## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Brownshirts, wow, cable street all over again, we're not Brownshirts or anything like them. UAF are closer to being fascist than us, we seek no power.
> 
> Arthur.


 You're not the edl either arthur. You've not been for a long long time.


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## Blagsta (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Brownshirts, wow, cable street all over again, we're not Brownshirts or anything like them. UAF are closer to being fascist than us, we seek no power.
> 
> Arthur.


 
That's cos you don't know what fascism means.

A group lead by petit bourgeoisise, pretending to act in the interests of the working class, while defending the interests of the bosses...who does that remind me of?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur. When did you first realise the EDL were being used as a front for recruiting nazis and fascists? What did you do about it?

After you marched along with people chanting racist slogans did you still get a thrill and sense of relevance out of being in such a group? Why?

And, as others have asked, what are the pro working class actions of your group? I have yet to see any EDL in anti cuts actions or demos, trying to save our services that we have paid for. Why is that?

What has been your positive contribution to English culture? (going on a pissed up demo to shout rabble nonsense doesn't count as positive, I'm talking about genuine cultural pursuits and interests)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> A million people marched against the war in Iraq, did it make one jot of difference, no it did not. Will the cuts campaign succeed, no it won't.
> EDL are not campaigning to change the whole government policy, just a bit of it where Islamists are concerned..



Good for you. It points out better than a dozen newspaper articles how your "movement" is based on prejudice, irrationality and ignorance.  



> ...and that's why we are succeeding and you are not.



You're not succeeding, unless you count a few back-benchers muttering similar sentiments "success". Where's the legislation? The Tories will do to you what they did to the NF: Appropriate bits and pieces of your "ideology" that they can sell to the shires, and steal your support (such as it is)



> You know and I know that this government has no choice to make cuts, they have to stay within IMF rules if they want to keep the countries credit rating, if they go after big business for the money, big business will leave and then we are in even bigger trouble.



Wow, you're supposedly a businessman, but you don't appear to have a grasp of macro-economics. 
The nation's credit rating isn't dependent on the IMF, it's dependent on the "analysis" conducted by the credit rating agencies, which are all privately-owned, with the obvious consequences that has for the neutrality of their rating assessments. The fundamentals of the UK economy are *so* sound that most of the world's best economists are absolutely appalled at what Osborne is doing, wondering why he's doing the very things that make recession more likely.
As for capital flight/"big business leaving", more bollocks. Companies talk a good fight, but what they don't tell the economically-illiterate journos who hang on their declarations of doom is that it's not just about how much tax you pay, it's about access to networks and markets, and that's where "the City" gives business something worth paying a little bit of extra tax for.



> So who ever was in government would have to make cuts. What is the alternative?



The alternative is obvious: No cuts, and pay off the debt through a surcharge on the profits of the people mainly responsible for it: The banks.



> Also the government can't see any votes from your lot, you would never vote for them, whereas, they, mistakenly, believe we can some how be turned, same as Labour, via Glasman, who want to reach out to the EDL, they too think we can be turned. So there are votes in it for both of these parties.
> 
> I've watched this cycle from Macmillan onwards and it has always come full circle and you will never change it, short of a revolution and that is not on the cards.
> 
> ...


 
You're not "the working class", Arthur. You're a big-gobbed, small-minded insignificant fraction of the working class, and most of the working class think you're beer-bellied twats.

I've been listening to the right claim that they're "the working class" for 40+ years, and yet every time I come across the likes of you, you're actually whining, self-interested _petit bourgeois_ graspers who have as little connection to the working class as Arsenal FC do to interesting football.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> The report I had was that they occupied it for a short while and it was not an attack.
> http://www.blightyandy.co.uk/2011/05/uk-uncut-protest-in-newcastle/
> 
> Despite a low-key Police presence the demonstration passed off peacefully without any disruption. The action in London seems to have passed off surprisingly peaceful, especially as the media portrayed UK uncut as the cause of disorder on the 26 March rally, when in reality they only supported the peaceful occupation of Fortnum & Mason. This kind of peaceful and colorful direct action is hardly the biggest crime in the world.
> ...



Why are you lieing Arthur? They smashed it up

http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/edl-teams-up-with-bnp-to-attack-anti-racist-meeting/

Why would they smash up a bookshop? The nazis did that sort of thing you know


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> In fact Arthur, why won;t you address any of the posts that make you feel very uncomfortable about belonging to an organisation full of brownshirts?


 
But Fingers, they're doing all this for England! defending "our" soldiers (that was a good laugh, that one. Barely an ex-military man among them), defending "our" society (another good laugh, as many of them are anti-social).


----------



## robbo180265 (Jun 12, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> You're not "the working class", Arthur. You're a big-gobbed, small-minded insignificant fraction of the working class, and most of the working class think you're beer-bellied twats.
> 
> I've been listening to the right claim that they're "the working class" for 40+ years, and yet every time I come across the likes of you, you're actually whining, self-interested _petit bourgeois_ graspers who have as little connection to the working class as Arsenal FC do to interesting football.



Steady on VP - I like Arsenal!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I've never beaten up anyone in all my life.
> 
> Arthur.


 
I never said you had. I made the point that some right-wingers, whatever their ethnic origin, bash gays. 

Surely it's not that much of a difficult point to discern from my post?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

robbo180265 said:


> Steady on VP - I like Arsenal!


 
Sorry, lifelong antipathy coming to the fore. I got taken to an Arsenal game back when Bertie Mee was managing them, and got bored to tears. Subsequent games over the decades whenever they played West Ham never really disabused me of the boredom.

Obviously, you see something in them that I never have.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> That's cos you don't know what fascism means.
> 
> A group lead by petit bourgeoisise, pretending to act in the interests of the working class, while defending the interests of the bosses...who does that remind me of?


 
Many many regimes. 

Mind you, according to Arthur, they're not just "acting in the interests of", they actually *are* "the working class".

As you said, though, in reality they're the _petit bourgeoisie_. And like always, they're looking for scapegoats for their own lack of control over their lives. It's the Muslims this time.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Brownshirts, wow, cable street all over again, we're not Brownshirts or anything like them. UAF are closer to being fascist than us, we seek no power.
> 
> Arthur.



Cable Street all over again will be when you racist halfwits go and cause trouble in Tower Hamlets, a place where you sort are not wanted.


----------



## robbo180265 (Jun 12, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Sorry, lifelong antipathy coming to the fore. I got taken to an Arsenal game back when Bertie Mee was managing them, and got bored to tears. Subsequent games over the decades whenever they played West Ham never really disabused me of the boredom.
> 
> Obviously, you see something in them that I never have.




 Was being a tad sarcastic (but I do actually like Arsenal)

Anyways enough of this thread derail - back to tearing into the Nazi everyone!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur

"You know and I know that this government has no choice to make cuts"

Oh dear Arthur, that sounds like SURRENDER doesn't it? You won't surrender to Johnny muslim going about his business, but as soon as the elites want to shaft us for their mistakes you are ready to adopt the position. Muslims are a minority. Extremist muslims are a small minority of a minority. What type of politics is it that targets minorities and makes excuses for the establishment while pretending to be for the working class? Face facts Arthur, It's the "f" word.

"they have to stay within IMF rules if they want to keep the countries credit rating"

I thought the EDL was democratic. Who votes for the IMF? Who holds them accountable?

Your arguments have more holes than the proverbial swiss cheese, but I daresay you are considered a soaring genius among your diminishing rabble. I I were you I would go back to your FB pages and fill them with your half baked Bloke In The Pub waffle and thinly disguised hatred, because everyone here sees through every last bit of it and has heard it countless times.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> A million people marched against the war in Iraq, did it make one jot of difference, no it did not. Will the cuts campaign succeed, no it won't.
> EDL are not campaigning to change the whole government policy, just a bit of it where Islamists are concerned and that's why we are succeeding and you are not.
> 
> You know and I know that this government has no choice to make cuts, they have to stay within IMF rules if they want to keep the countries credit rating, if they go after big business for the money, big business will leave and then we are in even bigger trouble.
> ...


 
LOL. The working class credentials of a "retired businessman". That post is so laughable that is doesn't even merit a reply.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2011)

Apologies. I said in an above post that I thought the EDL was democratic. Anyone who has had the joy of reading their silly Code of Conduct will know the opposite is true, they are autocratic and hierarchical. Have you read the code Arthur? What do you think of it? Do you contact your Regional Organiser every time you want to raise a criticism? (assuming they haven't resigned or been done for kiddy fiddling)


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Where were the unions fighting for unskilled British workers to have training opportunities, no where to be found.


 
Just to come back to this point, it's simply not true. The unions aren't perfect, I won't pretend they are. But my own experience shows this argument for the nonsense it is. I left school at 16 to become an apprentice pipe-fitter. I got my qualifications but a few years ago I fell off some scaffolding and damaged my shoulder. The doctors told me that if I continued in the trade the strain it would put on my already weakened shoulder may mean I would lose the use of my arm. I was on the dole for two years. I received no help from the EDL, no help from your beloved Mr. Cameron. But a college that was founded by, and still receives 40% of its funding from, the unions gave me a chance, despite a somewhat checkered history that would have put some colleges off. That college, which is part of the labour/trade union movement gave me the qualifications and the skills I needed to go to university in order to give me the chance of a better life. I'm now at a very well respected university and will hopefully soon have a degree. The unions have me a leg up when nobody else would.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Just to come back to this point, it's simply not true. The unions aren't perfect, I won't pretend they are. But my own experience shows this argument for the nonsense it is. I left school at 16 to become an apprentice pipe-fitter. I got my qualifications but a few years ago I fell off some scaffolding and damaged my shoulder. The doctors told me that if I continued in the trade the strain it would put on my already weakened shoulder may mean I would lose the use of my arm. I was on the dole for two years. I received no help from the EDL, no help from your beloved Mr. Cameron. But a college that was founded by, and still receives 40% of its funding from, the unions gave me a chance, despite a somewhat checkered history that would have put some colleges off. That college, which is part of the labour/trade union movement gave me the qualifications and the skills I needed to go to university in order to give me the chance of a better life. I'm now at a very well respected university and will hopefully soon have a degree. The unions have me a leg up when nobody else would.


 
Prescott's _Alma Mater_?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I've never beaten up anyone in all my life.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Only because you're incapable.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Prescott's _Alma Mater_?


 
It was Northern College, which the sister college of Ruskin College. Oh, and Cameron is killing these places too - they are making over-25s pay for access courses now and have removed most of the funding the college used to give us a bursary to live on, which kind of makes it difficult for w/c people to go back into education. Not that Arthur gives a shit about that.


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

Have you worked out how siding with capital and bankers, whilst attacking labour movements helps the working class yet, Arthur?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> LOL. The working class credentials of a "retired businessman". That post is so laughable that is doesn't even merit a reply.



I'm not going to reveal details of my private life, suffice to say this,

I come from a mining family and my father walked from up north to London and despite him being a hard worker we were poor and I left school at 15 with no qualifications and I worked hard and about 1980 I managed to start my own business and for the next 30 years I grafted to make that business work, some times 7 days a week and many a time all night as well.
Now I'm comfortable, so I deserve what I've got, no one handed it to me on a plate, I grafted, so don't tell me I'm not working class because I'm a retired business man, you've no idea.

Arthur.


----------



## Blagsta (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'm not going to reveal details of my private life, suffice to say this,
> 
> I come from a mining family and my father walked from up north to London and despite him being a hard worker we were poor and I left school at 15 with no qualifications and I worked hard and about 1980 I managed to start my own business and for the next 30 years I grafted to make that business work, some times 7 days a week and many a time all night as well.
> Now I'm comfortable, so I deserve what I've got, no one handed it to me on a plate, I grafted, so don't tell me I'm not working class because I'm a retired business man, you've no idea.
> ...



How are you defining "working class"?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'm not going to reveal details of my private life, suffice to say this,
> 
> I come from a mining family and my father walked from up north to London and despite him being a hard worker we were poor and I left school at 15 with no qualifications and I worked hard and about 1980 I managed to start my own business and for the next 30 years I grafted to make that business work, some times 7 days a week and many a time all night as well.
> Now I'm comfortable, so I deserve what I've got, no one handed it to me on a plate, I grafted, so don't tell me I'm not working class because I'm a retired business man, you've no idea.
> ...


 
Have I touched a nerve there then SCAB?


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I come from a mining family and my father walked from up north to London and despite him being a hard worker we were poor and I left school at 15 with no qualifications and I worked hard and about 1980 I managed to start my own business and for the next 30 years I grafted to make that business work, some times 7 days a week and many a time all night as well.
> Now I'm comfortable, so I deserve what I've got, no one handed it to me on a plate, I grafted, so don't tell me I'm not working class because I'm a retired business man, you've no idea.


 
So you scaled the heights of petit bourgeoisie? Capital served you well but is fucking over the working class. Tebbit would be proud.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur. When did you first realise the EDL were being used as a front for recruiting nazis and fascists? What did you do about it?

After you marched along with people chanting racist slogans did you still get a thrill and sense of relevance out of being in such a group? Why?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2011)

_"I left school at 15 with no qualifications and I worked hard and about 1980 I managed to start my own business and for the next 30 years I grafted to make that business work, some times 7 days a week and many a time all night as well.
Now I'm comfortable, so I deserve what I've got, no one handed it to me on a plate"
_
Sounds like some muslims I know.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

stephj said:


> So you scaled the heights of petit bourgeoisie? Capital served you well but is fucking over the working class. Tebbit would be proud.


 
Arthur got on his bike!


----------



## audiotech (Jun 12, 2011)

Without realising it, I think Arthur2 is expressing concern with regard to the issue of 'multiculturalism' here? People can celebrate diversity, with the many aspects to it - vibrancy, being cosmopolitan etc, but on the other hand 'multiculturalism' (introduced as an antidote to virulent racism), can lead to fragmentation, with its 'celebration' of difference. This can lead to a feeling of a loss of identity by many people. The main distinction in the past has been between black and white, presently, it is argued, the distinction is between those, 'who for whatever cultural and historical reasons, can accept a secular state, the rule of law and national identity and those who cannot'. The danger is that if you allow things to brew they can erupt in all sorts of ways, then it's too late to counteract.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> We are the working class, not you pretend lot.


 
Bollocks. The working class is under attack at the moment, life is getting a lot harder for a lot of people - jobs are getting slashed, services are being privatised, people can't afford to live. And this is what people care about, Arthur - jobs, homes, services, food - not fucking halal.

And what are you lot doing? Setting yourself up as opposition to the anti-cuts movement and trying to divert people's anger down a fucking dead end. You are the fucking definition of a scab, Arthur.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'm not going to reveal details of my private life, suffice to say this,
> 
> I come from a mining family and my father walked from up north to London and despite him being a hard worker we were poor and I left school at 15 with no qualifications and I worked hard and about 1980 I managed to start my own business and for the next 30 years I grafted to make that business work, some times 7 days a week and many a time all night as well.
> Now I'm comfortable, so I deserve what I've got, no one handed it to me on a plate, I grafted, so don't tell me I'm not working class because I'm a retired business man, you've no idea.
> ...


 
You are not working class Athur. Your dad might have been, but you were a fucking businessman and part of the business class. The working class were the people you employed and ripped off you muggy cunt.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Without realising it, I think Arthur2 is expressing concern with regard to the issue of 'multiculturalism' here? People can celebrate diversity, with the many aspects to it - vibrancy, being cosmopolitan etc, but on the other hand 'multiculturalism' (introduced as an antidote to virulent racism), can lead to fragmentation, with its 'celebration' of difference. This can lead to a feeling of a loss of identity by many people. The main distinction in the past has been between black and white, presently, it is argued, the distinction is between those, 'who for whatever cultural and historical reasons, can accept a secular state, the rule of law and national identity and those who cannot'. The danger is that if you allow things to brew they can erupt in all sorts of ways, then it's too late to counteract.


 
I don't think that's the case with Arthur. Maybe it is with some EDLers but I get the impression he likes the EDL because it allows him to be racist whilst pretending to be all right on.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Without realising it, I think Arthur2 is expressing concern with regard to the issue of 'multiculturalism' here? People can celebrate diversity, with the many aspects to it - vibrancy, being cosmopolitan etc, but on the other hand 'multiculturalism' (introduced as an antidote to virulent racism), can lead to fragmentation, with its 'celebration' of difference. This can lead to a feeling of a loss of identity by many people. The main distinction in the past has been between black and white, presently, it is argued, the distinction is between those, 'who for whatever cultural and historical reasons, can accept a secular state, the rule of law and national identity and those who cannot'. The danger is that if you allow things to brew they can erupt in all sorts of ways, then it's too late to counteract.


 
I've asked you to stop doing this -  i let the shepard one go. Just stop it.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I've asked you to stop doing this -  i let the shepard one go. Just stop it.



I've just watched a programme on Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech. There's quotes around Scruton's bit. I've changed the other bits from Malik and Field? You my academic supervisor now? Point of info. Do you check everyone's posts, or just mine?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 12, 2011)

Great. This thread isn't attracting a load of people interested in some Honest Debate is it?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I've just watched a programme on Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech. There's quotes around Scruton's bit. I've changed the other bits from Malik and Field? You my academic supervisor now? Point of info. Do you check everyone's posts, or just mine?


 
No one else repeatedly posts the quotes of others as their own. If they did then, yes, of course i would point it out.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I've asked you to stop doing this -  i let the shepard one go. Just stop it.



It wasn't word for word and I sourced it, what more do you want?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Great. This thread isn't attracting a load of people interested in some Honest Debate is it?


 
To be honest, the debate over the last few pages is a fuck of a lot better than the previous 100 pages. At least now we're getting to the issues that create support for the EDL instead of endless fucking facebook shit and youtube videos and people going 'look, racist people being _racist_, how ghastly'.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 12, 2011)

We need some more edl members to encourage debate? Should I go to stormfront and invite some?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Here is some Facebook shit.  Some of this lot live in dreamland

http://twitpic.com/5aoucs


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

Sorry, is this a political debate or a fucking zoo? Point and laugh somewhere else.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> No one else repeatedly posts the quotes of others as their own. If they did then, yes, of course i would point it out.



How would you know if not checked?

'It is argued', followed by words with quotes is explicit in pointing out that the words are not mine?

This by Frank Field:



> The danger is that if you allow things to brew they can erupt in all sorts of ways, then it's too late to counteract.



Is not an original idea is it?

Nor is the other stuff, which are not direct quotes?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Here is some Facebook shit.  Some of this lot live in dreamland
> 
> http://twitpic.com/5aoucs


 
some of you live in Facebook land.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Sorry, is this a political debate or a fucking zoo? Point and laugh somewhere else.



How about you fuck off son.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 12, 2011)

A "fucking zoo".


----------



## audiotech (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Here is some Facebook shit.  Some of this lot live in dreamland
> 
> http://twitpic.com/5aoucs



The faces of the people having to endure monotonous chanting on the video further up this thread tells you all you need to know about how the public view this lot.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> How about you fuck off son.


 
Do one you useless liberal shithouse. All your posts on this thread, all your facebook links and twitpics and youtube videos - they don't mean shit. People don't even click on them. You are just a really ineffective spammer.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Do one you useless liberal shithouse. All your posts on this thread, all your facebook links and twitpics and youtube videos - they don't mean shit. People don't even click on them. You are just a really ineffective spammer.



Listen sunshine, I am going to continue to post them so if you do not like it the door is that way<<<<<  The sooner you accept that the better it will be for you. Comprende?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

audiotech said:


> The faces of the people having to endure monotonous chanting on the video further up this thread tells you all you need to know about how the public view this lot.



Quite.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

Son, sunshine. Fuck off you pointless mug.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Alright lads, no need to fall out. Can't we laugh and point _and_ talk about the actual politics? Do the two have to be mutually exclusive?

That said, PT has a point. I did click on that and it's pretty much the same as every other facebook screengrab on this thread - ignorant deluded twats being ignorant deluded twats. Some of the videos have been quite informative though.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Son, sunshine. Fuck off you pointless mug.



I am going nowhere, and there is not a lot you can do about that. ho hum.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

They are always the same. Telling us what we already know. Pointless.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Alright lads, no need to fall out. Can't we laugh and point _and_ talk about the actual politics?



Well the thread has been happily rumbling along on that basis so far so I say yes.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

It isn't even original shit. It is second hand shit. Reposting the pointless wank that the UAF lot at Expose post first. Mental.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> It isn't even original shit. It is second hand shit. Reposting the pointless wank that the UAF lot at Expose post first. Mental.



Tough shit, if you don't like it leave the thread ffs


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

Do you own the fucking thread you tool


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

No but it is not me stomping round in a tantrum telling people what they can post and what they can't  now is it? Think about it eh?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Here's a compromise - if it's the kind of shit we've already seen loads of but you think is funny anyway can you indicate this when you post the link? That way those of us who want to laugh and point can and those who don't aren't inconvenienced?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

It's like OK magazine for the far right.

Ooh, has anybody seen what Roberta was wearing last night? I hear Fender has a new love.

(((antifascism)))


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2011)

Here's a compromise - stick the ones that moan like 14 year old girls on ignore


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Here's a compromise - if it's the kind of shit we've already seen loads of but you think is funny anyway can you indicate this when you post the link? That way those of us who want to laugh and point can and those who don't aren't inconvenienced?



Sounds like a plan.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Here's a compromise - stick the ones that moan like 14 year old girls on ignore



Even better plan.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Here's a compromise - stick the ones that moan like 14 year old girls on ignore


 
One day, Bob, you might get Tommy's autograph!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 12, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> To be honest, the debate over the last few pages is a fuck of a lot better than the previous 100 pages. At least now we're getting to the issues that create support for the EDL instead of endless fucking facebook shit and youtube videos and people going 'look, racist people being _racist_, how ghastly'.


 
That's not what I was saying; one big reason we normally just ban people popping in to flagwave and internet fight with the lefties is because you end up with a bunch more coming in from facebook or wherever, and also people following them to continue barneys from elsewhere, and they start spreading. Which is obviously something I'd like to prevent (and I think few people would like to see that). I didn't see this Arthur arrive initially because I've not been following this thread.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> It's like OK magazine for the far right.
> 
> Ooh, has anybody seen what Roberta was wearing last night? I hear Fender has a new love.
> 
> (((antifascism)))



If you have to exaggerate your point to that extent, it sort of suggests you have no argument really doesn't it.  Do you need some help working out how to use the 'ignore poster' function?  Let me know if you need some help with that. It will do your blood pressure a world of good.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2011)

See, now you can't see what she's bitching about


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That's not what I was saying; one big reason we normally just ban people popping in to flagwave and internet fight with the lefties is because you end up with a bunch more coming in from facebook or wherever, and also people following them to continue barneys from elsewhere, and they start spreading. Which is obviously something I'd like to prevent (and I think few people would like to see that). I didn't see this Arthur arrive initially because I've not been following this thread.


 
Can we keep Authur2 though? Pleeeaaaase?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> If you have to exaggerate your point to that extent, it sort of suggests you have no argument really doesn't it.  Do you need some help working out how to use the 'ignore poster' function?  Let me know if you need some help with that. It will do your blood pressure a world of good.


 
I didn't have to exaggerate much, really.

It's like Beatlemania, but with more comments about chavs and Jeremy Kyle.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2011)

Good.  Now do you need help with that ignore button or do you reckon you can figure it out for yourself?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2011)

Give it a rest for fuck's sake.


----------



## josef1878 (Jun 12, 2011)

Nice to see how a couple of muppets get you banging at each other's keyboards.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Can we keep Authur2 though? Pleeeaaaase?


 
Arthur is like a one-man "4 Yorkshiremen" sketch, but with more self-pity and less humour.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2011)

josef1878 said:


> Nice to see how a couple of muppets get you banging at each other's keyboards.


 
I get the feeling that Fingers and Proper Tidy need to get a room and fuck each others' arses raw. Then they might be too knackered to squabble like a couple of 6-yr olds in a sandpit.


----------



## revlon (Jun 13, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> It's like Beatlemania, but with more comments about chavs and Jeremy Kyle.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2011)

Meanwhile the Welfare Reform Bill goes through largely unopposed by the left, the Arch-Bishop is more outspoken on it then the far left...


----------



## Fingers (Jun 13, 2011)

If Arthur has not surrendered I would like him to take a read of this and then come back and tell me if he still supports the EDL.

http://oneoffproductions101.tumblr.com/


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

treelover said:


> Meanwhile the Welfare Reform Bill goes through largely unopposed by the left, the Arch-Bishop is more outspoken on it then the far left...


 
Says who? Change the fucking record will you? You have no idea what the people posting on this thread are doing to oppose the bill and I'd like to lay a bet that in many cases it's more than you. You like to present yourself as a latter day Orwell, telling inconvenient truths to "the left" but in reality you're saying nothing, nothing at all.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2011)

'Teachers in several local schools have told The Sunday Telegraph that they feel “under pressure” from local Muslim extremists, who have mounted campaigns through both parents and pupils – and, in one case, through another teacher - to enforce the compulsory wearing of the veil for Muslim girls. “It was totally orchestrated,” said one teacher. “The atmosphere became extremely unpleasant for a while, with constant verbal aggression from both the children and some parents against the head over this issue.” 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ent-campaign-to-turn-London-area-Islamic.html




If this was any other group involved, there would be mass marches, pickets, leafleting, etc, challenging this, there has to be consistency or the far/nationalist right will grow as it is all over Europe.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

I'd imagine the National Secular Society are doing something about it. Are you organising anything around this treelover?


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2011)

Eh, shouldn't it be of concern to the Left? the movement that challenges all forms of discrimination, etc, by shooting the messenger, you provide an example of these moral somersaults, what is happening in parts of T/H is an issue for the Left and its silence speaks volumes..


----------



## Corax (Jun 13, 2011)

I've never been entirely clear of what 'The Left' is in contexts like this.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2011)

at the very least, the usually very large amount of people one see on anti-war marches, anti-cuts, etc, the SWP for example will march at the drop of a hat, but on these issues, nothing


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 13, 2011)

EDLOL


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 13, 2011)

But the anti-cuts marches are about changes to disability benefits etc as well.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm on "the left" and have been challenging this stuff since it was New Labour doing it. I have volunteered for the Derbyshire Unemployed Workers' Centres for three years now treelover. We are campaigning on it - you just want to do your usual "the left, the left, why won't anyone think of the children" whining.

As frogwoman rightly says, the 500,000 people who marched against the cuts were marching against this. My local anti-cuts group is working on forging links between unionised job centre staff and claimants so that they can be faught more effectively.

So again I will ask, what are YOU doing about this treelover? Or does the fact that you distance yourself from "the left" absolve you of all responsibility?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2011)

Corax said:


> I've never been entirely clear of what 'The Left' is in contexts like this.



Can of worms Corax, don't go there.

Technically it should be the 'left and anarchists' otherwise they get a bit hissy


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2011)

er, change of topic, froggie, i was referring to the TH situation,


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

Well, with regards to TH, what do you suggest I do? I'm nowhere near TH and have no way of getting there. I believe the NSS's OLFA campaign, the brainchild of an Iranian communist, will be organising something and if I remember rightly one of the local anarchist groups (WAG I think?) has organised around these issues before so I'd expect them to do so again.

What are you doing about it treelover?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 13, 2011)

Wag did indeed do something about this a few years ago yeh iirc


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2011)

again, i am talking about in the first instance those on the left however delinated who live in london, but at some point there needs to be a genuine protest event perhaps organised by the Muslim community themselves and supported by others against this growing fascism, and yes it is a form of fascism.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 13, 2011)

Can i go if i don't live in London anymore?


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2011)

my second point was precisely that, a national event...


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 13, 2011)

Safe


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

So you're doing nothing then - you're as guilty as "the left". Glad we cleared that up.

And I'm not convinced you know what fascism is - it's not a catch all term for right wing, ultra-conservative politics, it's a lot more specific than that.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 13, 2011)

treelover said:


> again, i am talking about in the first instance those on the left however delinated who live in london, but at some point there needs to be a genuine protest event perhaps organised by the Muslim community themselves and supported by others against this growing fascism, and yes it is a form of fascism.


 
You don't know what's really going on though do you?

Can't speak for the whole organisation, but nevertheless, I know (saw the photos) that a few SWP members were out in support of a small secular protest, fairly recently in London, with Muslims in support. On opposite sides were the Islamic fundies and a contingent who had turned up from the EDL.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2011)

Tatchell on the events in TH, very clear headed in my view

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/06/homophobia-hasnath-gay-london


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

He's right. Many on the liberal left see Muslims as an oppressed minority that can do no wrong - but you're not talking to the liberal left here. 

What does any of this have to do with what we've been talking about this thread? Do you honestly think that the EDL is a response to homophobia? Really?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 13, 2011)

so will the EDL be protesting in lincoln about these white pedophiles? thought not. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-13711320


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 13, 2011)

like pedophile rings, the EDL use homophobia and the perceived maltreatment of women as sticks to beat the muslim community with. as if the average EDL gives a toss about gay rights. the LGBT division has a few supporters ON FACEBOOK which means fuck all. as stated in the malatesta blog, any moron can 'like' a facebook page, it is shoe leather on the cobbles and clear political arguments that make a difference. both of which the EDL are in increasing short supply of. the 'multiracial' racism of the EDL is being played down now that joel titus is in jail and guramit singh has resigned. they are looking increasingly like white bigots. their politics remain confused. they say they are against militant islam so were the blokes they accused over the charlene case militants? they have made threatening noises over the students demos and anti-cuts groups. which are hardly militant islam. also if you look at the UKFF forum there are several critics of the jewish division led by roberta 'i cant take her seriously any' more. the Jewish section is falling fast from grace as a lot of the EDL cant see what the ENGLISH defence league has to do with israel. indeed.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 13, 2011)

given what i know about the far right and some of their supporters' behaviour towards vulnerable young girls and women it's impossible to take the "paedo" thing seriously tbh. i shouldn't really go into it in detail on this thread tho tbh.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 13, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> given what i know about the far right and some of their supporters' behaviour towards vulnerable young girls and women it's impossible to take the "paedo" thing seriously tbh. i shouldn't really go into it in detail on this thread tho tbh.


 
check this article out. and this has yet to be updated to include good old richard 'a toke, a snort and then off down the playground' price.
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/gay-nazis-and-deviants-surely-not/


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 13, 2011)

pm me if you want btw. might not be all that good because i don't know all their real names but i know others who do.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 13, 2011)

thing is the edl have nothing useful to add to anything a bunch of pretend football hooligans are not really an answer to anything. Unless the answer is somebody for the members of arrse to bait mercilessly  until they got bored. if you lose a battle of wits with a para you really do have problems 

if a small number of muslims or any ethnic religous group are out of order a racist group isn't going to help matters


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 13, 2011)

WAG doesn't exist any more, does it?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> WAG doesn't exist any more, does it?


 
I think it's called ALARM now (an acronym, buggered if I know what it stands for though) but I think it's the WAG lot and some others. I think there's at least one person who's involved on this board so they'll know better than me.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 13, 2011)

I shall await Pickman's with baited breath.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 13, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> I shall await Pickman's with baited breath.


 
You've been eating worms again?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 13, 2011)

Maggots. Yum.

Is it bated breath then? And what is bated breath?


----------



## TruXta (Jun 13, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Maggots. Yum.
> 
> Is it bated breath then? And what is bated breath?


 
It's from "abate".

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bate


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 13, 2011)

Mast.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 13, 2011)

Dear oh dear.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 13, 2011)

Fingers said:


> If Arthur has not surrendered I would like him to take a read of this and then come back and tell me if he still supports the EDL.
> 
> http://oneoffproductions101.tumblr.com/



You've got a bunch of idiots on faceache, most of them keyboard warriors geing each other up with comments that no sane person would listen to and I bet that not one of them has ever set foot on the street in support of EDL, perhaps they should get on with their home work instead.

Arthur.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 13, 2011)

Hey Arthur, care to retract the lie you wrote earlier, when you said you were against building a mosque on Ground Zero? There is no mosque being built there, in case you hadn't heard.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 13, 2011)

treelover said:


> Eh, shouldn't it be of concern to the Left? the movement that challenges all forms of discrimination, etc, by shooting the messenger, you provide an example of these moral somersaults, what is happening in parts of T/H is an issue for the Left and its silence speaks volumes..



I hate to agree with you because you will now be seen as EDL but you are right and it is a mystery to me, the left say that they are anti discrimination etc but are failing to do anything, from my point of view it's almost tacit support, I'm not suggesting that they join EDL but they really should be protesting.
If some thing is wrong, then surely it's wrong no matter actually says it.

Arthur.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 13, 2011)

Why are you here Arthur? Can't you join the rotary club or something.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You've got a bunch of idiots on faceache, most of them keyboard warriors geing each other up with comments that no sane person would listen to and I bet that not one of them has ever set foot on the street in support of EDL, perhaps they should get on with their home work instead.
> 
> Arthur.


 
So how do you explain away the fact that almost the entire leadership is "ex" BNP then? Or the number of known NF/BNP/C18 types that have been, and continue to be, seen on your demos? How do you explain the "burn a poppy we'll burn a mosque", "Allah was a paedo" and "we hate Pakis more than you" chants that are always heard at your demos?

Anyway, we were talking about how you're an anti-working class scab organisation. Let's get back to that.


----------



## Blagsta (Jun 13, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You've got a bunch of idiots on faceache, most of them keyboard warriors geing each other up with comments that no sane person would listen to and I bet that not one of them has ever set foot on the street in support of EDL, perhaps they should get on with their home work instead.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Come on then, what do you mean by "working class"?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I hate to agree with you because you will now be seen as EDL but you are right and it is a mystery to me, the left say that they are anti discrimination etc but are failing to do anything, from my point of view it's almost tacit support, I'm not suggesting that they join EDL but they really should be protesting.
> If some thing is wrong, then surely it's wrong no matter actually says it.
> 
> Arthur.


 
He's not EDL, he's a bit annoying but I'd never lump him in with idiots like you. It's a bit like your failure to do anything about the anti-working class cuts Cameron is carrying out, and at times your vocal support for the Tory twat, being tacit support, isn't it? And I see you've conveniently neglected to mention the posts where we pointed out that the left has, in fact, done something about it. The NSS's One Law For All campaign pre-dates the EDL by years, an organisation founded by communists. "The left" were addressing this problem way back when most of the EDL were still obsessing about Jewish banking conspiracy theories.

Of course it's wrong no matter who says it - who here has argued otherwise? 

Scab.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Come on then, what do you mean by "working class"?


 
Retired businessmen, IT millionaires and tanning salon owners with property portfolios. Maybe that's why Tommeh hates brown people - they already have a good tan so they don't need to use his shop.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 13, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Retired businessmen, IT millionaires and tanning salon owners with property portfolios. Maybe that's why Tommeh hates brown people - they already have a good tan so they don't need to use his shop.


 
Get it right, Norm. His name isn't Tommeh, it's Yakmeat.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

Lol. I stand corrected.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 13, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> So how do you explain away the fact that almost the entire leadership is "ex" BNP then? Or the number of known NF/BNP/C18 types that have been, and continue to be, seen on your demos? How do you explain the "burn a poppy we'll burn a mosque", "Allah was a paedo" and "we hate Pakis more than you" chants that are always heard at your demos?
> 
> Anyway, we were talking about how you're an anti-working class scab organisation. Let's get back to that.



Non of the leadership team ever did more than flirt with any of those groups and soon walked away when they discovered what idiots they are, some people join communist parties find that they are not what they thought they were and leave.
Douglas Murray makes this point in a seminar on the far right and pro Islamic left, so I'm not the only one who perceives the left as being supportive of the Islamics.

He also makes some very good points at the same seminar here,

No official speaker for the EDL would say such a thing and having been on quite a few demos I have never heard anyone chanting anything about Pakis, I don't even like writing the word.
Of course there are plenty of videos on you tube that have been doctered, audio dubbed, it's an easy thing to do if you have enemies that will stop at nothing to discredit you, many on the left will say the means justifies the end.
So it becomes a laugh when our forum is hacked and names and addresses are posted all over the net, puting people, their families in great danger, since when did this become an acceptable thing to do and I'm pleased that EDL have not risen to the bait and done the same thing back to the left. It's not only illegal, it's immoral.

You like to think that I cannot, EDL cannot possibly be working class, why because it doesn't fit what your idea of working class is, you perceive us as this great mass of idiots who if we could only be led to the light, would rise up and do away with a system you hate. But this system that you hate has given us, mostly, more freedom and more wealth than any previous system ever has.
But you see, we are not idiots, we know the system exploits us, we know that in many ways it's flawed but the system that the left would instal would remove our freedom, so you will never get us on your side.

Arthur.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 13, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Hey Arthur, care to retract the lie you wrote earlier, when you said you were against building a mosque on Ground Zero? There is no mosque being built there, in case you hadn't heard.



You are wrong mate, bits of bodies were found where the mosque was going to be built, there was a map that was on the net that had red dots where these bits were found and they were on the site of the mosque.

Arthur.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

I for one don't want you on my side. And Douglas fucking Murray? You're a parody of yourself Arthur. It'd be funny if it wasn't so fucking tragic. Some EDLers are working class, nobody has denied that. But YOU are not. Class is defined by your relationship to the means of production, not the job your dad did. Anyway, you were amusing when you first turned up. Now you're boring me. Do fuck off.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2011)

Esxept it isn't a mosque, is it Arthur?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 13, 2011)

Paypal have locked the EDL accounts and Ebay ( or the EDL ) have removed them as a seller on ebay.


----------



## Blagsta (Jun 13, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Non of the leadership team ever did more than flirt with any of those groups and soon walked away when they discovered what idiots they are, some people join communist parties find that they are not what they thought they were and leave.
> Douglas Murray makes this point in a seminar on the far right and pro Islamic left, so I'm not the only one who perceives the left as being supportive of the Islamics.
> 
> He also makes some very good points at the same seminar here,
> ...



What do you mean by "working class"?


----------



## TruXta (Jun 13, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Esxept it isn't a mosque, is it Arthur?


 
There's that issue. For a liberal funnyman perspective you could start here and work your way back, Arfur. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque


----------



## Corax (Jun 13, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> What do you mean by "working class"?


 
I wondered that.  I'm not convinced that the working class are a homogeneous entity with herd opinions.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jun 13, 2011)

lol, using Murray to support your arguments. Good move.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 13, 2011)

Corax said:


> I wondered that.  I'm not convinced that the working class are a homogeneous entity with herd opinions.


 
But you still have doubts, I hope?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 13, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Of course there are plenty of videos on you tube that have been doctered, audio dubbed


 
Lol. You gullible old fucker.

And what gives you, an old retired businessman, any special insight on the working class? Get to fuck.


----------



## manny-p (Jun 13, 2011)

LOL at the people trying to make Arthur change his ways.


----------



## Corax (Jun 13, 2011)

TruXta said:


> But you still have doubts, I hope?


 
Well you know, I don't want to come across as _arrogant_ in my view of people as individuals.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 13, 2011)

Hello Arthur. I see you are still contributing to the thread. I hope you have time to answer these questions, even though the majority of EDL supporters I put them to fail to. This is the 4th time of asking in your case. If you are awkward about the issues raised I hope you can at least say why:

When did you first realise the EDL were being used as a front for recruiting nazis and fascists? What did you do about it? 

After you marched along with people chanting racist slogans did you still get a thrill and sense of relevance out of being in such a group? Why?


----------



## sunny jim (Jun 13, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Hello Arthur. I see you are still contributing to the thread. I hope you have time to answer these questions, even though the majority of EDL supporters I put them to fail to. This is the 4th time of asking in your case. If you are awkward about the issues raised I hope you can at least say why:
> 
> When did you first realise the EDL were being used as a front for recruiting nazis and fascists? What did you do about it?
> 
> After you marched along with people chanting racist slogans did you still get a thrill and sense of relevance out of being in such a group? Why?


 Im bettting on 5th time.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 14, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You've got a bunch of idiots on faceache, most of them keyboard warriors geing each other up with comments that no sane person would listen to and I bet that not one of them has ever set foot on the street in support of EDL, perhaps they should get on with their home work instead.
> 
> Arthur.



That is quite the majority isn't it Arthur.

I have a challenge for you.  Read this:

http://oneoffproductions101.tumblr.com/

And come back here and tell us again why you would be associated with such an 'organisation'


----------



## Fingers (Jun 14, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Of course there are plenty of videos on you tube that have been doctered, audio dubbed, it's an easy thing to do if you have enemies that will stop at nothing to discredit you, many on the left will say the means justifies the end.



Why would anyone waste time like that when the EDL put them on youtube themselves Arthur?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 14, 2011)

It usualy goes like this Arthur


EDL halfwit wakes up the day after a demo with a thudding hangover and a nose bleed.
EDL halfwit gets on the computer and uploads their drunken idiocy to YouTube.
EDL halfwit realizes later in the day that the video of his scally mate Pricey, 'waving at a bird in the sky' whilst chanting 'allah is a paedo' could well be misconstrued as a nazi salute.
EDL halfwit removes video but not before some evil England hating commie has re-uploaded it.
EDL leadership try to claim Pricey was just waving at some young children across the road.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 14, 2011)

Lol


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 14, 2011)

allybaba said:


> LOL at the people trying to make Arthur change his ways.


 
Not me. I know from long experience that you can't change the mind of an ideologue, only *they* can do that, and to do it, they have to acknowledge the possibility that they're wrong, which ain't gonna happen 99 times out of a hundred.

I mean, how do you change the mind of someone who rates "Skid-Mark" Murray, and believes scare stories (that have been disproven over and again) about a mosque being built on Ground Zero, when the actual development all these stories are based on is of a cultural centre that includes a mosque *a handful of blocks* from Ground Zero.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 14, 2011)

always a good listen: lslamophobia: Are sections of the British press increasing tensions within communities by publishing negative stories about Muslims? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00xw21x


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 14, 2011)

.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 14, 2011)

I'm not trying to convince Arthur of anything - he's a true believer, you can't use reason to shift someone away from an opinion they didn't arrive at through reason. I'm arguing with him because 1) I'm bored and 2) others might be reading this who don't realise that Arthur is basing his position on a pack of lies.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 14, 2011)

This is just fucking depressing. Some muslim guy in Manchester has decided to open a pub aimed at the muslim market. It does not sell booze.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...al-Inn-Britains-alcohol-free-Islamic-pub.html

Well the EDL want to burn it down. 

Anything to say on this Arthur?

http://twitpic.com/5bjqwm


----------



## Fingers (Jun 14, 2011)

Anyway, sent the screenshot to crime stoppers, if one of these knuckle dragging pricks does decide to burn it down, the threats are on record.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 14, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Anything to say on this Arthur?
> 
> http://twitpic.com/5bjqwm



If any doubt remained, what a bunch of fuckwits


----------



## IC3D (Jun 14, 2011)

They won't do anything, same as frothing teenage pakistani teenagers all of them pissed off cos they all live in the utter fucking shithole that is Oldham. Honestly if none of you guys have been there everyone in Oldham is the missing link they collectively should be called cracki's and thus ignored.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 14, 2011)

Don't bet on that, these cunts are in court this week

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/12/469662.html?c=on


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 14, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Don't bet on that, these cunts are in court this week
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/12/469662.html?c=on


 
That site is embarassing.


----------



## IC3D (Jun 14, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Don't bet on that, these cunts are in court this week
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/12/469662.html?c=on


 
Cunts indeed but not exactly a pogrom more trying to impress a bird reading that, having had a mate kicked into a coma by Oldhams thickest I don't think they are near the street army they wish for same as the pakisatani boys tbh.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 14, 2011)




----------



## manny-p (Jun 14, 2011)

IC3D said:


> They won't do anything, same as frothing teenage pakistani teenagers all of them pissed off cos they all live in the utter fucking shithole that is Oldham. Honestly if none of you guys have been there everyone in Oldham is the missing link they collectively should be called cracki's and thus ignored.


 
Oldham is a fucking mess.


----------



## manny-p (Jun 14, 2011)

IC3D said:


> They won't do anything, same as frothing teenage pakistani teenagers all of them pissed off cos they all live in the utter fucking shithole that is Oldham. Honestly if none of you guys have been there everyone in Oldham is the missing link they collectively should be called cracki's and thus ignored.


 
Oldham is a fucking mess.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 14, 2011)

allybaba;11850406]Oldham is a fucking mess.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=allybaba said:


> Oldham is a fucking mess.


so shit you had to say it twice.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 15, 2011)

I think the link Treelover posted of a islamic fundamentalist campaign in Tower Hamlets to pressurize teachers is relevant to this thread, in that it is the sort of thing the EDL picks up on while the left ignores. Don't forget a teacher was very brutally attacked and so bringing the issue up shouldn't be scoffed at or trolled out as it has been here. 

If the claims in the article are true re the teachers being afraid to speak out for fear of being *seen* as racist (sounds typical to me) then we, as a society, have a problem. Basically a cunt is a cunt and there are no excuses to cover up for them.

I have seen many instances of ultra leftist knee jerk behaviour in militant circles in the past over just such issues. Enough to make me drop out. There are people who just can't bring themselves to confront reality when it means taking on someone from an ethnic minority who *is* being out of order.

We are all keen here to see the EDL fail as they are a fascist organization in the classic sense but the question of where does the left stand on such issues needs to be addressed properly with less burying of heads in the sand and embarrassed faces. I don't mean the imaginary shit the EDL goes on about but the near beating to death of a teacher and the wider campaign that this incident appears to have been part of must raise some issues for the left.


----------



## manny-p (Jun 15, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> so shit you had to say it twice.


 
oops. But yeah it really is


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 15, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> I think the link Treelover posted of a islamic fundamentalist campaign in Tower Hamlets to pressurize teachers is relevant to this thread, in that it is the sort of thing the EDL picks up on while the left ignores. Don't forget a teacher was very brutally attacked and so bringing the issue up shouldn't be scoffed at or trolled out as it has been here.
> 
> If the claims in the article are true re the teachers being afraid to speak out for fear of being *seen* as racist (sounds typical to me) then we, as a society, have a problem. Basically a cunt is a cunt and there are no excuses to cover up for them.



Absolutely. It's not racism to call a cunt a cunt, and for said cunt(s) to try to hide their actions behind claims that people pointing the finger at them are racists illustrates their moral and intellectually bankruptcy to anyone willing to see it.

That said, there'll always be people who *don't* see what's in front of their faces, because reality doesn't ccord to their religious and/or ideological fantasies.



> I have seen many instances of ultra leftist knee jerk behaviour in militant circles in the past over just such issues. Enough to make me drop out. There are people who just can't bring themselves to confront reality when it means taking on someone from an ethnic minority who *is* being out of order.



It's one of the logical concomitants to having had local politics somewhat hijacked by identity politics for the last 30 years, though, IMO. Add to that the (somewhat ridiculous) idea that there's a "hierarchy of oppression" and you've got a device by which any group can establish that expecting conformity from them is oppression.



> We are all keen here to see the EDL fail as they are a fascist organization in the classic sense but the question of where does the left stand on such issues needs to be addressed properly with less burying of heads in the sand and embarrassed faces. I don't mean the imaginary shit the EDL goes on about but the near beating to death of a teacher and the wider campaign that this incident appears to have been part of must raise some issues for the left.


 
For those elements of the left who differentiate between the worthiness of causes based on the identity(s) of the oppressed and the oppressor, anyway.


----------



## BigTom (Jun 15, 2011)

So Arthur.. teachers voted yes to strike, civil servants declare today.. what position is the working-class organisation known as the EDL going to take on this? are you going to encourage your followers to call in sick or take annual leave on that day? did you encourage them to vote yes to strike? or will you be happy for your members to cross picket lines on the 30th June?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 15, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/notes/edl-support-group/tommy/167973143264976



> Tommy Robinson was today arrested by Lancashire Police for an 'alleged' assault charge and is due to appear at Blackburn on the 24th June 2011.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



EDfaiL


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 15, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/notes/edl-support-group/tommy/167973143264976
> 
> EDfaiL



*likes*


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 15, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-13784285



> EDL leader Stephen Lennon faces Blackburn assault charge
> EDL founder Stephen Lennon Stephen Lennon is due in court on 24 June
> 
> The founder of the English Defence League (EDL) has been charged with assault following an altercation at a rally in Lancashire.
> ...


----------



## Fingers (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh dear, Tommy arrested and has a tantrum



> ** MESSAGE FROM TOMMY**
> Due to the ongoing harassment by the Police forces of the UK I have decided that as from this point in time there will no longer be any Police Liaison with any Police force at all levels, Division, Regional or National.
> 
> Tommy Robinson



And members have a foamfest because he has been arrested and charged with headbutting someone


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 15, 2011)

If he dont like our Laws he should just fuck off home init......


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 15, 2011)

If he's restricted from doing any EDL related activity on his computer and has released that statement hasn't he already breached his bail conditions?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 15, 2011)

We can only hope.


----------



## Corax (Jun 15, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> If he's restricted from doing any EDL related activity on his computer and has released that statement hasn't he already breached his bail conditions?


 
I'd guess it's a message *from* Tommy, but not *by* Tommy, iykwim.

I'm very concerned that we're going to lose all the good work that the EDL police liaison officers have put in.  Such a shame.  I only hope that the police can come to terms with the loss.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 15, 2011)

Seems like a bit of an odd sanction to make then. What's the point in them stopping him doing any EDL stuff on his computer if he can just dictate it to one of his goons who types it out for him? I'd have thought they'd ban him altogether from making online statements relating to the EDL.


----------



## Corax (Jun 15, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Seems like a bit of an odd sanction to make then. What's the point in them stopping him doing any EDL stuff on his computer if he can just dictate it to one of his goons who types it out for him? I'd have thought they'd ban him altogether from making online statements relating to the EDL.


 
How would you enforce that though?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 15, 2011)

Fair point, I don't suppose they could really, you'd get people pretending to post stuff on his behalf to get him into trouble. Be fun to watch though. 

Does seem like a pointless sanction but I suppose it's at least an inconvenience to him.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 15, 2011)

Having already served a year for assaulting a copper and currently having three charges over him (money laundering, assault and violent affray) I suspect he could be going down.  This will do his appeal against the poppy burning violence no good at all..

And if they are no longer going to co-operate with the police it is a step closer to them getting themselves proscribed.

Things are not going good for the EDL, all for Tommy's inability to keep his nose clean so to speak.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 15, 2011)

Ah, I hear he has been arrested twice today, Lanc and Beds police. Anyone know what the other was for?


----------



## Corax (Jun 15, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Having already served a year for assaulting a copper and currently having three charges over him (money laundering, assault and violent affray) I suspect he could be going down.  This will do his appeal against the poppy burning violence no good at all..
> 
> And if they are no longer going to co-operate with the police it is a step closer to them getting themselves proscribed.
> 
> Things are not going good for the EDL, all for Tommy's inability to keep his nose clean so to speak.


 
Sounds like it's going perfectly for them if you ask me.  Well on their way to making their figurehead and their organisation into martyrs.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 15, 2011)

Here it is, that is now four charges hanging over him

http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/6556057818/edl-leader-tommy-robinson-stephen-lennon-paul

He has a busy week that week


----------



## laptop (Jun 15, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Here it is, that is now four charges hanging over him
> 
> http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/6556057818/edl-leader-tommy-robinson-stephen-lennon-paul
> 
> He has a busy week that week



Charged - BBC


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 15, 2011)

Corax said:


> Sounds like it's going perfectly for them if you ask me.  Well on their way to making their figurehead and their organisation into martyrs.


 
It will certainly play into their victim complex - they already think the government are in bed with the Muslamics because they don't give them free reign to go around harassing brown people.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 16, 2011)

I was a communist once you know, in the days of John Golan,,Jack Dash, Lou Lewis and a few others and it was then that I discovered that the whole thing was a complete con and I got out. They were all a bit like some of you, fuelled with with a great deal of hate mixed with hypocrisy. Sell outs to the Soviets, they didn't work for the good of people in this country but rather a world wide Soviet, rather like the Islamist today.

The working man today is lots better off under a capitalist system than he would ever be under the dictatorship of the left, a controlling ideology that would place great limits on freedom, while pretending that in fact they were more free.

You ask me to define working class and it is not easily defined and beyond me to define, suffice to say, I am it, despite the fact that you do not see me as such.
I treated my small number of employees with respect, we were a team and we all made a great living, 3 were of west Indian descent, one was a Hindu and the girl who ran the office was a muslim and I shared the profit among them once a year, so much for me being some sort of capitalist monster. 

You people here are too fond of putting people in a box, you need to do this because you actually do this to your selves and then it becomes impossible for you to think out side of these boxes.
Anyone who become a business man is in this box, anyone who Joins EDL is in that box and so on and so forth.
You can't judge people like that, we are all different, these boxes exist only in your imagination.

You can see the hypocrisy in all of this if you look, often we are accused of lumping all muslims as terrorists and that's no different to lumping all EDLers as Nazis etc etc and yes I do this myself by lumping the left all together, when I know that it is not so.

There should however be a point at which a common enemy is opposed by all people, left or right, people should unite against intolerance, not tolerate it because you are in opposition to a body of people that you see as the enemy, some times there needs to be no division against certain behaviours if it threatens us all.

Our freedoms are being eroded daily, Tommy is proof of that, anyone in EDL, arrested for any offence, nothing to do with the fact they are in EDL are being stopped from lawful protest, by having conditions imposed that stop them from lawful protest, some have had, on being convicted of an offence that's nothing to do with an EDL protest, been banned from any protest for 10 years.
How long before they use this on you.

Lets look at kettling, it's been called unlawful, yet the left are happy when it's used on EDL but very unhappy should it be used on one of the lefts protest, hypocritical, to say the least, but these things are all our enemies. Your right to protest as well as mine is being eroded. It's being eroded by our very own parliament, by the people we elected and by our division they are getting away with it.
An EDL song that you might even agree with,
http://www.youtube.com/user/CitizenSteven?blend=21&ob=5#p/u/0/YyTwsXRea5E
It ends with the great words, I wish Guy Faulkes was alive today. 

You say what are EDL doing about the cuts etc, well, nothing, but thousands are, how would you feel if EDL joined your anti cuts protests, perhaps I'll recommend it if you tell me that we would be welcome.
We offered Mariam Namazia our support and she ranted and so her campaign has never been much, no headlines, no publicity and her protests, mostly a waste of time.

Our protest on the other hand hit the headlines almost every time and is causing the politicians and others to discuss the problems that we highlight, government is moving in our direction, Shari'ah courts are being told that they must follow UK law, extremist groups are losing funding. We are being listened too, you may not like it, but it is a fact.

All over Europe there is a rise against Islamism and perhaps you should be asking your selves why?

Arthur.


----------



## sunny jim (Jun 16, 2011)

You forgot to answer fingers question. Are you cool hanging out with nazis and a what point did you realise they were nazis?


----------



## josef1878 (Jun 16, 2011)

'Fuelled with with a great deal of hate mixed with hypocrisy'. I couldn't have put it better myself with er one less with. If you like spending Saturday afternoons with Adolf Hitler loving, coke snorting, drunken, racist, lowlife scum, then off you go. Don't forget to buy a hoodie, TOMMY NEEDS YOUR MONEY


----------



## sunny jim (Jun 16, 2011)

The EDL is a right wing organisation and so is gonna be against any strikes or demos against the cuts....The EDL is on the side of the bosses not the workers and face it arthur2 the EDL is just a load of football hooligans.....thats why EDL demos are about the same nimber as banned football hooligans from following England


----------



## Fingers (Jun 16, 2011)

Arthur, predictably you have failed to read the link I gave you. Here it is again

http://oneoffproductions101.tumblr.com/

I wanted you to come back and tell me why you support the EDL after reading that but I guess you are too cowardly.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 16, 2011)

sunny jim said:


> You forgot to answer fingers question. Are you cool hanging out with nazis and a what point did you realise they were nazis?


 
Very similar to the questions I am now asking Arthur for the 5th time:

When did you realise that nazis and racists were using the EDL to recruit? What did you do about it?

After going on rallies where there was irrefutable of evidence of racist chanting, why would you continue to support such a group?


----------



## revlon (Jun 16, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Arthur, predictably you have failed to read the link I gave you. Here it is again
> 
> http://oneoffproductions101.tumblr.com/
> 
> I wanted you to come back and tell me why you support the EDL after reading that but I guess you are too cowardly.


 
making direct comparions between the holocaust and the edl (interlinking peoples memories of the holocaust with what dave the chav says on his facebook page) actually degrades those who survived the holocaust. A bit grubby, and continually posting the link dosen't make it any less grubby.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 16, 2011)

revlon said:


> making direct comparions between the holocaust and the edl (interlinking peoples memories of the holocaust with what dave the chav says on his facebook page) actually degrades those who survived the holocaust. A bit grubby, and continually posting the link dosen't make it any less grubby.



It's what I thought too, it trivialises the suffering of all those people, which is why I didn't reply.

Arthur.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 16, 2011)

Arthur - is there or is there not a mosque being built on Ground Zero?


----------



## Fruitloop (Jun 16, 2011)

Look at greece at the moment and you can see where the far-right stand when the chips are down - bashing the workers along with the cops in support of the degenerate political class.


----------



## sunny jim (Jun 16, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> Look at greece at the moment and you can see where the far-right stand when the chips are down - bashing the workers along with the cops in support of the degenerate political class.


 
^^^ This


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 16, 2011)

Guramit Singh on BBC WM Today


----------



## manny-p (Jun 16, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Guramit Singh on BBC WM Today





An English Defence League (EDL) spokesman claims it was the police's fault there were violent demonstrations in the West Midlands last year.

Guramit Singh said police "banned" two protests in Dudley in April and July.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 16, 2011)

He also says all Terroists are Muslim..... lol


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 16, 2011)

I thought Singh had left the EDL???


----------



## Fingers (Jun 16, 2011)

revlon said:


> making direct comparions between the holocaust and the edl (interlinking peoples memories of the holocaust with what dave the chav says on his facebook page) actually degrades those who survived the holocaust. A bit grubby, and continually posting the link dosen't make it any less grubby.



Bollocks, it is a holocaust's survivor's view on the EDL. Call holocaust survivor's  views grubby if you like but it doews not look good on you. Even Arthur agrees with you in order to avoid the rather uncomfortable subject


----------



## Fingers (Jun 16, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> It's what I thought too, it trivialises the suffering of all those people, which is why I didn't reply.
> 
> Arthur.



You didn't reply because it makes you feel like a cunt.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 16, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I thought Singh had left the EDL???


 

With Tommy out of the picture and Kev not one for TV or radio, who else would step up?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 16, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Arthur - is there or is there not a mosque being built on Ground Zero?



Yes, despite what the Guardian says.

Arthur.


----------



## Blagsta (Jun 16, 2011)

LOL


----------



## TruXta (Jun 16, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Yes, despite what the Guardian says.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Proof? Not that such exists, I'm just curious as to what lies you believe.


----------



## Blagsta (Jun 16, 2011)

He just makes everything up, see his definition of working class. He doesn't know what it means, but he doesn't have to. He just believes any old shit to prop up his shaky sense of self.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 16, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I was a communist once you know, in the days of John Golan,,Jack Dash, Lou Lewis and a few others and it was then that I discovered that the whole thing was a complete con and I got out. They were all a bit like some of you, fuelled with with a great deal of hate mixed with hypocrisy. Sell outs to the Soviets, they didn't work for the good of people in this country but rather a world wide Soviet, rather like the Islamist today.
> 
> The working man today is lots better off under a capitalist system than he would ever be under the dictatorship of the left, a controlling ideology that would place great limits on freedom, while pretending that in fact they were more free.
> 
> ...


 
Maybe your whining about how "the left" this and "the left" and how they put people in boxes etc would have more credibility if you didn't a) keep talking about left wing activists as if they were all one thing - i'm not happy when edl get kettled and im not one of the ones cheering when they get arrested. why? because i know that the threat from the far-right is something that will be used to justify massive repression if we let it. Not because i give a fuck about the far right. there has been discussion after discussion about this on here over the years and i think most people are agreed that state repression of the far right is at best ineffective and at worst gives the state an excuse to do the same thing to the left (or the left/anarchists if you want to get pissy) and workers fighting for their rights. 

and b) if you, yourself weren't a member of an organisation that is BASED on the shit you're attacking "the left" for. Of course attacking all small business people as being capitalist scum is nonsensical when you look at the system of capitalism. you still had to sell your labour, so in that sense you were working class. But small business people like it or not have a different "role" in the capitalist system than someone who just works for a wage, so in that sense you weren't. Its not an insult. It's just the way it is, and of course it's not as clear cut as what's sometimes portrayed. But you are worse than those marxists who assume that everyone self-employed is a cunt, because you had a CHOICE of what career to take, but what religion you are born into is not a choice. And I notice that you are now saying one of your employees were muslim - how do you think that person would feel if she knew that youwere now part of an organisation that wanted to get all muslims out of the country. How would she feel if she knew that you had of joined the EDL. 

this is what people are attacking you for arthur, you're part of a viciously right-wing, anti-worker, anti-union, racist organisation. and as for what people would say if edl joined anti-cuts movements? if individual members joined and kept their fucking shit politics to themselves, who knows, they might be convinced, but as an organised movement, let's be honest, theyd probably tell you to fuck off as people have done when fascists have tried to infiltrate left-wing groups elsewhere in europe.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 16, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Maybe your whining about how "the left" this and "the left" and how they put people in boxes etc would have more credibility if you didn't a) keep talking about left wing activists as if they were all one thing - i'm not happy when edl get kettled and im not one of the ones cheering when they get arrested. why? because i know that the threat from the far-right is something that will be used to justify massive repression if we let it. Not because i give a fuck about the far right. there has been discussion after discussion about this on here over the years and i think most people are agreed that state repression of the far right is at best ineffective and at worst gives the state an excuse to do the same thing to the left (or the left/anarchists if you want to get pissy) and workers fighting for their rights.
> 
> and b) if you, yourself weren't a member of an organisation that is BASED on the shit you're attacking "the left" for. Of course attacking all small business people as being capitalist scum is nonsensical when you look at the system of capitalism. you still had to sell your labour, so in that sense you were working class. But small business people like it or not have a different "role" in the capitalist system than someone who just works for a wage, so in that sense you weren't. Its not an insult. It's just the way it is, and of course it's not as clear cut as what's sometimes portrayed. But you are worse than those marxists who assume that everyone self-employed is a cunt, because you had a CHOICE of what career to take, but what religion you are born into is not a choice. And I notice that you are now saying one of your employees were muslim - how do you think that person would feel if she knew that youwere now part of an organisation that wanted to get all muslims out of the country. How would she feel if she knew that you had of joined the EDL.
> 
> this is what people are attacking you for arthur, you're part of a viciously right-wing, anti-worker, anti-union, racist organisation. and as for what people would say if edl joined anti-cuts movements? if individual members joined and kept their fucking shit politics to themselves, who knows, they might be convinced, but as an organised movement, let's be honest, theyd probably tell you to fuck off as people have done when fascists have tried to infiltrate left-wing groups elsewhere in europe.



I'm not whining, just putting an opinion. Yes you are right , as I said in my post, I do lump you all together, but I do realise this and some times manage not to.

Far right, but I'm not far right and neither is EDL, most of us consider ourselves to be middle of the road. Makes us an easy target if we are far right.

People are not born into a religion, small children are brainwashed into a religion, some have it beaten into them as well but you are not born into religion any more than you are born into being a communist.

I don't know how she would feel but the Hindu guy is still my best mate and we still have a drink together.

I feel that my cause is a right one, Ismalists need to be stood against because they are a dangerous ideology.

I'm only anti those who are anti me.

Arthur.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 16, 2011)

you're still doing it, you're going on about how "the left" are "happy" when edl are arrested etc, if you read this thread you will see there's all sorts of debates about this and most people are agreed that when fash are arrested for being fash, or when they're otherwise oppressed it's not necessarily a positive thing. read the thread and you will see peeps get pulled up on it. As for being "anti those who are anti me" what is attacking you about building a mosque? or wearing clothes? 

as butch said earlier up the thread you're not the edl. you haven't been for a long time.


----------



## sunny jim (Jun 16, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'm not whining, just Far right, but I'm not far right and neither is EDL, most of us consider ourselves to be middle of the road. .
> 
> 
> 
> EDL middle of the road? Laugh out fucking loud!!!


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 16, 2011)

Neither left nor right ...


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 16, 2011)

Stop immigation, stop building mosques, ban the Koran, ban the burka, yeah these don't sound right wing at all when you think about it.


----------



## revlon (Jun 16, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Bollocks, it is a holocaust's survivor's view on the EDL. Call holocaust survivor's  views grubby if you like but it doews not look good on you. Even Arthur agrees with you in order to avoid the rather uncomfortable subject



Just don't show her the stormfront forums


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 16, 2011)

Actually there's a long history of fash groups "playing left" or at least not seeming to be right wing tossers.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 16, 2011)

> I'm not whining, just putting an opinion. Yes you are right , as I said in my post, I do lump you all together, but I do realise this and some times manage not to.
> 
> Far right, but I'm not far right and neither is EDL, most of us consider ourselves to be middle of the road. Makes us an easy target if we are far right.



"Middle of the road" means that you don't take a position. But that isn't true. Is it?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 16, 2011)

He takea a third position.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 16, 2011)

Third position, third way, Third Reich. What is it with thirds?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 16, 2011)

It sounds cool to them.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 16, 2011)

sunny jim;11856088][QUOTE=Arthur2 said:


> I'm not whining, just Far right, but I'm not far right and neither is EDL, most of us consider ourselves to be middle of the road. .
> 
> 
> 
> EDL middle of the road? Laugh out fucking loud!!!



Not far right? Fucking hell, he is full of shit


----------



## Fingers (Jun 16, 2011)

revlon said:


> Just don't show her the stormfront forums



Quite


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 16, 2011)

What do you think far-right means arthur?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 16, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'm not whining, just putting an opinion. Yes you are right , as I said in my post, I do lump you all together, but I do realise this and some times manage not to.
> 
> Far right, but I'm not far right and neither is EDL, most of us consider ourselves to be middle of the road. Makes us an easy target if we are far right.
> 
> ...



Re: people not born into a religion nonsense, presumably you'd be happy to use that same arguement when it's islamist scum terrorising hindus and christians. In fact, that's one of the main tenents of fundamentalist Islam. That people aren't born into a religion so they aren't deserving of any special protection for that religion - and presumably terrorising other people for their faith is their fault, too .


----------



## Fingers (Jun 17, 2011)

This beggars belief for it's pure mentalness.  Latest statement from the EDL regarding Theresa May's alleged clampdown on them and the victimization dished out to them by Paypal and Ebay. Check the photo they have used:

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/467/3076965818.jpg

It is like the entire leadership are having a collective meltdown


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 17, 2011)

A proper meltdown - it actually looks like Tommy's face is melting.

Loving the sources there - two EDL youtube videos and the EDL website. Clearly totally impartial.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 17, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> What do you think far-right means arthur?



I'd put C18 and Stormfront as far right, BNP, maybe.
Certainly not EDL, we are a mixture if different political perspectives, far to mixed to be boxed into one.

Arthur.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 17, 2011)

You mean the BNP, C18 and Stormfront whose members attend EDL demos?

Rabid opposition to the left - check
Racism - check
Cultural chauvinism - check
Ultra-nationalism - check
posturing about caring about the w/c but acting directly against its interests - check
scapegoating minorities - check
living in a bizarre world where any opposition to your "movement" is the result of a conspiracy by "the enemy" - check.

Well, it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but you're saying it's not a duck.

BA got it spot on earlier - you define the EDL as what you want them to be, the "ideal form" as he put it, not what they actually are.


----------



## laptop (Jun 17, 2011)

See the "from the boards" column in this week's _Private Eye_...


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 17, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'd put C18 and Stormfront as far right, BNP, maybe.



Maybe the BNP?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 17, 2011)

So I see Arfur is still with us.  What ho!

Are you going to Tower Hamlets, Arfur?  Will you be telling the Asians Muslims exactly what you think of them, Arfur?  Now that Tommy and Co are no longer co-operating with Plod, will you cry about "State oppression" when you lot inevitably feel the hand of Mr P on your shoulders?  Will you still cheer on Plod when he wades into peaceful anti-cuts protestors (oh sorry, I mean "unwashed UAF communist scum")?  Are you still serving neo-liberalism's best interests, Arfur?  Do you believe race is more important than class?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 17, 2011)

It's not race with the EDL - it's religion and culture. Honest.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 17, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> You mean the BNP, C18 and Stormfront whose members attend EDL demos?
> 
> Rabid opposition to the left - check
> Racism - check
> ...


 
The number of 'C18' and Stormfronters at the demos will be small, there just isn't many of them full stop , nevermind realtime activists. I don't think that here are even that many BNP involved either.If anything the EDL are a recruiting ground away from potential  BNP membership  not to them.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 17, 2011)

I dunno, I've not really taken that much interest. I'm just going on what I've read on here. I do know there's a lot of ex-BNP and a fair few current BNPers though, my local BNP organiser for example is active in the EDL.

And wasn't much of the C18 "threat" a myth anyway, even when they did still officially exist? There seem to be a lot of supposedly ex-C18 floating around on the net and talking up EDL events as potential recruitment opportunities but I'm perfectly willing to believe they're just fantasists.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 17, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I dunno, I've not really taken that much interest. I'm just going on what I've read on here. I do know there's a lot of ex-BNP and a fair few current BNPers though, my local BNP organiser for example is active in the EDL.
> 
> And wasn't much of the C18 "threat" a myth anyway, even when they did still officially exist? There seem to be a lot of supposedly ex-C18 floating around on the net and talking up EDL events as potential recruitment opportunities but I'm perfectly willing to believe they're just fantasists.



Or, as has been speculated _ad nauseam_, they're just mostly state assets.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 18, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Or, as has been speculated _ad nauseam_, they're just mostly state assets.


 
Does Charlie Sargeant have a log-in in prison, eh?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 18, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Does Charlie Sargeant have a log-in in prison, eh?


 
Given the number of POA members with hard-right sympathies, I wouldn't rule out beergut having a way of posting on Stormcunt. I'm sure a screw would take one up the arse (a smartphone, that is! ) for Charlie.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 18, 2011)

Demo in Dagenham today, they attacked three asian lads, one is in hospital, then had a minutes silence for the lad who got run over by a train a few weeks ago. They have also attacked one of their own and calling him a traitor and a grass


----------



## Fingers (Jun 18, 2011)

They appear to have smashed up the rage against racism gig in leeds


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Demo in Dagenham today, they attacked three asian lads, one is in hospital, then had a minutes silence for the lad who got run over by a train a few weeks ago. They have also attacked one of their own and calling him a traitor and a grass


 
I'm waiting to get confirmation on this, but (allegedly so far) the guy in hospital isn't a Muslim, but <is> Asian.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Demo in Dagenham today, they attacked three asian lads, one is in hospital, then had a minutes silence for the lad who got run over by a train a few weeks ago. They have also attacked one of their own and calling him a traitor and a grass


 
But Fingers, Arthur assures us that the EDL aren't anti-Asian, they're just "defending" people against Muslim extremists!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> They appear to have smashed up the rage against racism gig in leeds


 
What a very odd thing for members of a group that assures people it isn't racist to do!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 18, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> I'm waiting to get confirmation on this, but (allegedly so far) the guy in hospital isn't a Muslim, but <is> Asian.



You can't blame them. All those Asians look Muslamic!! 

((((EDL))))


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> They appear to have smashed up the rage against racism gig in leeds


 
The gig that had the strap line :





> SMASH THE EDL ,BNP ,RAC AND EVERY OTHER BONEHEAD LOSER OUT THERE



If you are going to smash another group then at least prepare for them to do the same to you


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> They have also attacked one of their own and calling him a traitor and a grass



Please let it be Arthur2.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1283/update



> The police in Dagenham appear to be taking the assaults today very seriously. Thankfully our photographer is ok, unlike the two young Asian men who required medical treatment.
> 
> One young man is still in hospital, but we hope he will be released later this evening.
> 
> ...


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1283/update
> 
> 
> 
> > The EDL are still in Dagenham/Redbridge and shall be for the rest of the evening where they are being entertained by a local publican who even opened early for them. He has plans this evening to even lay on a barbecue for the EDL.



Quick, PM pk, he'll will sort them.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/5dcy7n


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Demo in Dagenham today, they attacked three asian lads, one is in hospital, then had a minutes silence for the lad who got run over by a train a few weeks ago. They have also attacked one of their own and calling him a traitor and a grass


 


Fingers said:


> They appear to have smashed up the rage against racism gig in leeds


 


MellySingsDoom said:


> I'm waiting to get confirmation on this, but (allegedly so far) the guy in hospital isn't a Muslim, but <is> Asian.


 
Can we have your take on this please Arthur2?



claphamboy said:


> Please let it be Arthur2.


 
LOL


----------



## Deareg (Jun 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> They appear to have smashed up the rage against racism gig in leeds


 
I heard from Mancs AFA that all the edl did was smash a few windows and then run off.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 18, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Please let it be Arthur2.



Sorry to disappoint but I'm in Italy at the moment, so can't comment, if people were beaten up then the law will take it's course, which is as it should be.

Arthur.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 18, 2011)

Hmm, seems Indymedia have a different take,

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/06/480977.html

Arthur.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Sorry to disappoint but I'm in Italy at the moment, so can't comment, if people were beaten up then the law will take it's course, which is as it should be.
> 
> Arthur.


 
How do you expect to save this glorious Isle (and our bacon boxmasters) when you keep buggering off to Italy? And I hope you speak Italian Arthur, otherwise you're refusing to integrate.

That's a really crap kop-out! These things were done under the name of the EDL, some of them on an official EDL demo. The organisation must take responsibility for the actions of the people who attend.

Contrast this with the EDL position on Islam - "moderates" aren't doing enough to stop the "extremists". Anyone else spot the inconsistency? And remember - these people are in the EDL - the vast, vast majority of Muslims have nothing whatsoever to do with the extremists, no links at all.


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 18, 2011)

Just bad apples, Norman.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 18, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> How do you expect to save this glorious Isle (and our bacon boxmasters) when you keep buggering off to Italy? And I hope you speak Italian Arthur, otherwise you're refusing to integrate.
> 
> That's a really crap kop-out! These things were done under the name of the EDL, some of them on an official EDL demo. The organisation must take responsibility for the actions of the people who attend.
> 
> Contrast this with the EDL position on Islam - "moderates" aren't doing enough to stop the "extremists". Anyone else spot the inconsistency? And remember - these people are in the EDL - the vast, vast majority of Muslims have nothing whatsoever to do with the extremists, no links at all.



Did you read Indymedia, some EDL were attacked by MDL, what do you expect to happen if some one is attacked.

My Italian is a bit poor but I do my best and I get on with the locals very well. I have a right to enjoy my retirement after 50 years of work thank you.

Just how do you know the mind set of the majority of muslims, there have been several surveys that say different, 40% of muslim students think it's ok to kill in the name of religion.

What do you mean by extremist, is it extreme to agree with FGM, is it extreme to be homophobic, is it extreme to want women covered from head to toe, what is your definition of extreme?

Arthur.


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 18, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Sorry to disappoint but I'm in Italy at the moment,....


 
Oh well, I'll keep my fingers crossed for next time.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Did you read Indymedia, some EDL were attacked by MDL, what do you expect to happen if some one is attacked.
> 
> My Italian is a bit poor but I do my best and I get on with the locals very well. I have a right to enjoy my retirement after 50 years of work thank you.
> 
> ...


 
Can you link to these please, would be intresting if they asked evey Mulsim student in the UK or the world or was it 40% of the 10 they aksed? etc.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1284/proof-positive



> Some in the EDL are claiming we are lying about the attack on the young Asian lads in Dagenham today.
> 
> Well here is a photo of the attack.
> 
> It is one of series that we have justed handed over to the police. Whatever our criticisms of the total lack of police presence today we look forward to swift action now.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 18, 2011)

Hello Arthur. Have you answered my polite questions yet? The ones I asked 5 times, and which others have asked?


----------



## moonstomp (Jun 18, 2011)

25 EDL turn up at the Opressed gig in Leeds ,try  and get in ,push the oldest and largest who looks mixed race to the front ,dealt with by experienced anti fascists on the door and put on the back foot , one gig goer hit with brick and lost a tooth ,one window smashed and they chuck bricks and bottles at venue and bit of a stand off before running off.All were loaded up with bricks and bottles and had the right idea in turning up early doors to have a go. hardly a victory for the EDL but another worrying development .EDL were possibly from York/Bradford.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

Cheers for the update


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Did you read Indymedia, some EDL were attacked by MDL, what do you expect to happen if some one is attacked.



And of course indymedia, a site anyone can post an article on, is a really reliable source, isn't it? In other indymedia news, the WTC attacks were carried out by Mossad in alliance with the US zionist lobby and those planes were actually holograms. I'll wait until I hear the story from a reliable outlet before I draw a conclusion. Unlike you I'd rather find out the truth, rather than just find the first thing that supports by biases.



Arthur2 said:


> My Italian is a bit poor but I do my best and I get on with the locals very well. I have a right to enjoy my retirement after 50 years of work thank you.



But if you're not going to be able to defend us from Muslamic ray guns in Italy, are you? Unless you think posting on message boards will solve the problem. It was 50 years of earning a profit of the backs of others too though wasn't it Arthur, you working class hero you.



Arthur2 said:


> Just how do you know the mind set of the majority of muslims, there have been several surveys that say different, 40% of muslim students think it's ok to kill in the name of religion.



So you're now saying it is a problem with Islam itself rather than an extremist minority? I talk to Muslims, when I was at school well over half my classmates were Muslims  - and they were pretty much the same as me. There's a massive Somalian community just down the road from me, I talk to them too. They're worried about cuts to services, job losses, the same stuff as me, they don't have the luxury of being able plan or carry out terrorist attacks. And if 40% of Muslim students think it's OK to kill in the name of a religion why are you still much more likely to be struck by lightening than killed by an Islamic extremist? (how was the question framed by the way? Killing to free oppressed people could be considered killing in the name of religion - I think that's OK too, so am I a Muslamic extremist too?)



Arthur2 said:


> What do you mean by extremist, is it extreme to agree with FGM, is it extreme to be homophobic, is it extreme to want women covered from head to toe, what is your definition of extreme?



So now it's not about them carrying out attacks, it's about their beliefs? What are you? The thought police or something? I believe in freedom of speech, thought and expression. You clearly don't. I think it should be left up to the women, if they want to wear the veil that's their choice. Who am I to tell them what to wear?



Arthur2 said:


> Arthur.


 
Yes, we know your name - you don't have to type it at the end of every tedious, repetitive post you make.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Can you link to these please, would be intresting if they asked evey Mulsim student in the UK or the world or was it 40% of the 10 they aksed? etc.


 
Expect a link to a report by the Centre for Social Cohesion, Douglas Murray's "thinktank".


----------



## revlon (Jun 18, 2011)

moonstomp said:


> 25 EDL turn up at the Opressed gig in Leeds ,try  and get in ,push the oldest and largest who looks mixed race to the front ,dealt with by experienced anti fascists on the door and put on the back foot , one gig goer hit with brick and lost a tooth ,one window smashed and they chuck bricks and bottles at venue and bit of a stand off before running off.All were loaded up with bricks and bottles and had the right idea in turning up early doors to have a go. hardly a victory for the EDL but another worrying development .EDL were possibly from York/Bradford.


 
puts the 72 pages of facebook screencaps in a little perpsective. First relevant post in 72 pages. I wonder if bob2009/fingers/spineynorman have and thoughts on the matter?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

nope none at all.


----------



## revlon (Jun 18, 2011)

post up something funny from facebook then


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

How about fuck off and post something ya self rather than bitching about what other people post like a 12 year old girl?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

revlon said:


> puts the 72 pages of facebook screencaps in a little perpsective. First relevant post in 72 pages. I wonder if bob2009/fingers/spineynorman have and thoughts on the matter?


 
What've I done to get lumped in with the facebookers then?

E2A: Sensible answer: it's a worrying development, and one that was fairly predictable. Those advocating the banning of the EDL ought to think about this since if they are banned from holding set-piece demos this is likely to become more widespread. For me this is one of the places (in addition to providing a useful distraction for the government when it's implementing cuts) where the threat from the EDL lies - not so much a direct political threat but a threat to the safety of antiracist and left wing activists.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 18, 2011)

How certain is it that Saint Tommy breached his bail conditions today?


----------



## revlon (Jun 18, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> What've I done to get lumped in with the facebookers then?


 
sorry, if you're not one of comedy tag time, strike your name off the list. But what do you reckon to what happened in leeds today? 

Edl attacking social events, rather than counter protests or political meetings. A confidence booster? A new tactic? An indictator of things to come? 

And why wasn't all this flagged up by our edl facebook obsessives who have spent the last 72 pages recording every utterance of the edl on facebook?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

another one here.... all from today

http://twitpic.com/5dd3if

So maybe he was stiched up or thic guy is mega thick.....


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

revlon said:


> sorry, if you're not one of comedy tag time, strike your name off the list. But what do you reckon to what happened in leeds today?
> 
> Edl attacking social events, rather than counter protests or political meetings. A confidence booster? A new tactic? An indictator of things to come?
> 
> And why wasn't all this flagged up by our edl facebook obsessives who have spent the last 72 pages recording every utterance of the edl on facebook?


 

It was you just didnt read it.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)




----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

revlon said:


> sorry, if you're not one of comedy tag time, strike your name off the list. But what do you reckon to what happened in leeds today?
> 
> Edl attacking social events, rather than counter protests or political meetings. A confidence booster? A new tactic? An indictator of things to come?




I think it could be a combination of all three to be honest. I think it's something the leadership have been forced into in a way. The ones who attend demos will only take so much of being penned in - they want to feel like they're doing something. I think it's about trying not to lose more members to the split off groups - they're, at least in rhetoric, more militant and so the EDL have been forced to follow their lead. I think the fragmentation of the EDL in the north could add to this - the split offs (infidels I think they call themselves) are more openly far right and have promised to do stuff like this. How much of it is posturing I'm not sure but it's certainly worrying. And this is why the EDL can never be what Arthur would like them to be.



revlon said:


> And why wasn't all this flagged up by our edl facebook obsessives who have spent the last 72 pages recording every utterance of the edl on facebook?




Don't ask me, I only came on here to answer Arthur. I've edited my post to give an answer to the initial question.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




Who are MPACUK?


----------



## revlon (Jun 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It was you just didnt read it.


 
had a quick run through the past four pages (granted only takes us back three days) but couldn't find anything from your endless posting up of edl facebook posts saying they were going to leeds to do over a lefty gig. Perhaps it's in there somewhere and perhaps people then discussed the likelyhood of the edl daring to do over social events. 

You see the point i'm trying to make? You think the edl are dave the chav posting on the facebook, whereas the real edl are busy _not _posting on facebook but getting together to attack 'the left' and they just upped their game. You're still sniggering at facebook posts - as if it matters.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

You assume i give a fuck what you think.


----------



## revlon (Jun 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> You assume i give a fuck what you think.


 
yaxley-lennon lol


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

fuck it, one more wont hurt....

Bam and he's gone


----------



## Fingers (Jun 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> nope none at all.



me neither


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> me neither


 
I think your the only person not on my ignore list now in this thread.... lol


----------



## cantsin (Jun 18, 2011)

revlon said:


> puts the 72 pages of facebook screencaps in a little perpsective. First relevant post in 72 pages. I wonder if bob2009/fingers/spineynorman have and thoughts on the matter?


 
if you dont think think people keeping an apparently constant eye/reporting back on the EDL's soc network activities, where much of their grass roots coomunication happens( as opposed to their heavily moderated website )  is 'relevant' , you could always leave the thread alone / fuck off elsewhere and do something you do consider 'relevant' ?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

He's actually making a valid point. Whilst the facebook stuff is well intentioned, and funny at times, the fact is that the EDL are not the facebook group. In the main the ones on there ranting about burning mosques are just sad fantasists who wouldn't dare actually do it. The people who make the EDL a threat aren't on facebook. They're in the pubs, the workplaces and the terraces, and it appears that now they may be planning and carrying out attacks, not just on Muslims but on us (meaning the active left) too. This is where the real EDL threat comes from and our time would be better spent looking into that than by spending hours on facebook.

If you want to continue with that then knock yourself out, I have no wish to stop you. But don't kid yourself that it's anything more than a bit of entertainment.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm working, it's entertainment, the day people start telling me what i can and cant post on the internet is the day i die. 

when the EDL come back to my city, that's the day i go out on the streets. (not that they will ever come back here after last time)

So can all the people that moan like little girls about what i post please block me or grown the fuck up. 

Safe


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

Is that directed at me? If so did you miss the bit where I said I had no wish to stop you?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2011)

Given recent events, and speaking as a moderator, I would prefer it if automatic reporting of EDL Facebook and other trivial activites were kept off Urban, since it encourages troll invasion (as has been proved recently) and perform no useful service.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Is that directed at me? If so did you miss the bit where I said I had no wish to stop you?


 
Not you no.


----------



## manny-p (Jun 18, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Who are MPACUK?


 
Muslim Public Affairs Committe. I think.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 18, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> He's actually making a valid point. Whilst the facebook stuff is well intentioned, and funny at times, the fact is that the EDL are not the facebook group. In the main the ones on there ranting about burning mosques are just sad fantasists who wouldn't dare actually do it. The people who make the EDL a threat aren't on facebook. They're in the pubs, the workplaces and the terraces, and it appears that now they may be planning and carrying out attacks, not just on Muslims but on us (meaning the active left) too. This is where the real EDL threat comes from and our time would be better spent looking into that than by spending hours on facebook.
> 
> If you want to continue with that then knock yourself out, I have no wish to stop you. But don't kid yourself that it's anything more than a bit of entertainment.


 
good post. 

it can be funny though/


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2011)

Absolutely. The poem about Tommy's daughter Poppy was the highlight for me. I'm guessing it was written with the intention of bringing a tear to the eye of the reader. Just not tears of laughter - but you can't have everything can you?


----------



## Corax (Jun 18, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> good post.
> 
> it can be funny though/


 
I think that's the thing.

Thinking that facebook idiots are entirely representative of the EDL is wrong and probably dangerous.  But IMO there's nothing wrong with a bit of point'n'laugh for entertainment value, especially as they provide so much of it.  It's not zero-sum.  The point'n'laugh does serve a more serious pupose as well, in highlighting the opinions of people who identify themselves with a self-proclaimed human rights organisation that professes to be non-racist, non-homophobic, and non-misogynistic.  Perhaps we need two separate threads?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 18, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Absolutely. The poem about Tommy's daughter Poppy was the highlight for me. I'm guessing it was written with the intention of bringing a tear to the eye of the reader. Just not tears of laughter - but you can't have everything can you?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 18, 2011)

revlon said:


> Edl attacking social events, rather than counter protests or political meetings. A confidence booster? A new tactic? An indictator of things to come?



At the risk of breaking Godwin's Law, attacking social events is an old tactic, most handily used by the nascent NSDAP because it served to do *all* the things you mention: Promotional device; tactic of disruption; telegrapher of intent.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 18, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Absolutely. The poem about Tommy's daughter Poppy was the highlight for me. I'm guessing it was written with the intention of bringing a tear to the eye of the reader. Just not tears of laughter - but you can't have everything can you?


 
Poor girl is probably feeling a bit disturbed, too, having a dad with two names and at least 2 personalities.


----------



## revlon (Jun 19, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> At the risk of breaking Godwin's Law, attacking social events is an old tactic, most handily used by the nascent NSDAP because it served to do *all* the things you mention: Promotional device; tactic of disruption; telegrapher of intent.


 
look at the trajectory. These are all steps forward for the edl. In confidence, in the ability to adapt to their circumstance, in recognising the left doesn't have an adequate response to what they do. They are being pretty audacious and this isn't going to stop because we're sniggering at their online content.

Sturmabteilung, perhaps, if we are going to make comparisons.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 19, 2011)

yup


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2011)

I actually think it is, at least in part, a sign of desperation from the leadership. That doesn't make it any less dangerous though.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 19, 2011)

revlon said:


> sorry, if you're not one of comedy tag time, strike your name off the list. But what do you reckon to what happened in leeds today?
> 
> Edl attacking social events, rather than counter protests or political meetings. A confidence booster? A new tactic? An indictator of things to come?
> 
> And why wasn't all this flagged up by our edl facebook obsessives who have spent the last 72 pages recording every utterance of the edl on facebook?


 
As Bob said, people have closely cited the branching out of activities. But that's no match for people who make stuff up.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 19, 2011)

revlon said:


> look at the trajectory. These are all steps forward for the edl. In confidence, in the ability to adapt to their circumstance, in recognising the left doesn't have an adequate response to what they do. They are being pretty audacious and this isn't going to stop because we're sniggering at their online content.
> 
> Sturmabteilung, perhaps, if we are going to make comparisons.



Yet the numbers are going down for demos and the racism and violence are just too open for even the most deluded apologist to try and say otherwise. Not to say that the developments aren't concerning, but it's more of a mixed bag than to just say it's all going to hell. That the left are more or less useless in many regards is not and has not been in dispute.


----------



## revlon (Jun 19, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> As Bob said, people have closely cited the branching out of activities. But that's no match for people who make stuff up.


 
so you agree that dave the chav saying 'i hate muslims' on his facebook page isn't particularly new , or particularly dangerous. Documenting their every utterance only has a meaning, a purpose if those utterances translate into something tangible in the real world.  What's the purpose of watching the edl? There has to be more than 'look what tommy sed in this youtube clip lol' 

I know it's part of the process, especially coming from a postion of weakness and ineffectiveness, to belittle the enemy - the far right have been doing it for years, but the edl haven't gone away and they are more than happy to confront the left, on their terms. Been pointed out before it's the police who have effectively neutralised the edl's ability to mobilise big numbers for symbolic demos, but they haven't gone away. 

I'd say the edl is acting as an effective conduit allowing the far right back on the streets, back into a position where they can feel confident enough to take it to the left, be it uaf meetings in dagenham or punk gigs in leeds. 

That's the position we are in. Understanding how we got to there, and what to do about it, maybe those things have no place on an edl watch thread.

_Back to the youtube clips_


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2011)

> On 18th June, the English Defence League (EDL) beat up innocent Muslims outside their house. MPACUK investigates what happened and what should someone do if ever attacked.


----------



## manny-p (Jun 19, 2011)

revlon said:


> I'd say the edl is acting as an effective conduit allowing the far right back on the streets, back into a position where they can feel confident enough to take it to the left, be it uaf meetings in dagenham or punk gigs in leeds.
> 
> That's the position we are in. Understanding how we got to there, and what to do about it, maybe those things have no place on an edl watch thread.
> 
> _Back to the youtube clips_


 
I see AFA type groups making a comeback if the attacks on the leftys continue.


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## IC3D (Jun 19, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




I support any anti racist efforts but not MPACUK That video is pure comedy.


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## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2011)

Hope not hate have photos from the attack but wont release them as the police have them right now....

the truth will come out at some point. The EDL seem to think it was a job well done.

Either way we will see more and more of this kind of thing.


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## manny-p (Jun 19, 2011)

IC3D said:


> I support any anti racist efforts but not MPACUK That video is pure comedy.


 
The bit with the black guys car stopping by and saying he witnessed the attack seemed rehearsed.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2011)

Looked like a gym owner trying to use the attacks to drum up business to me, and yes, it looked rehearsed, too big a coincidence that he happened to turn up at exactly the right place at exactly the right time.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2011)

Does anyone know where I can find any reliable information about MPACUK? (ie. not wikipedia) Who is involved, what their stated aims are, previous activities, that sort of stuff.


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## manny-p (Jun 19, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Looked like a gym owner trying to use the attacks to drum up business to me, and yes, it looked rehearsed, too big a coincidence that he happened to turn up at exactly the right place at exactly the right time.


 
Kinda discredits the whole video. His message was abit simple- he was basically saying, learn boxing and you won't get picked on by paki bashers.


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## audiotech (Jun 19, 2011)

Simple, but effective for self-defence purposes.


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## manny-p (Jun 19, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Simple, but effective for self-defence purposes.


 
Not against a mob.


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## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2011)

when it's 12-15 on 2 i'm not sure how effective it would be....


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## audiotech (Jun 19, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Not against a mob.



Any reputable self-defence class would also teach and give you the courage to run like fuck if the odds were stacked against you.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2011)

revlon said:


> look at the trajectory. These are all steps forward for the edl. In confidence, in the ability to adapt to their circumstance, in recognising the left doesn't have an adequate response to what they do. They are being pretty audacious and this isn't going to stop because we're sniggering at their online content.



I'm not one of those who writes the EDL off because they're disorganised and poorly-coordinated, and it's certainly the case that, having supposedly abjured the organised far-right, they can carry out hard-right actions under the rubric of "white working class" populism. That said, sniggering at their online content serves a purpose *if* it facilitates being able to publicly deconstruct their politics "in real life".



> Sturmabteilung, perhaps, if we are going to make comparisons.


 
Not so sure. The one thing the SA were, was revolutionary, even if their politics of revolution were couched in terms of destruction of democracy. The EDL have no real politics beyond their ideas on "the Muslim problem".

EDL are more like the _Deutsche-volkspartei_ (DVP) of Hitler's era - so focused on a single enemy that they can't see beyond that.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I actually think it is, at least in part, a sign of desperation from the leadership. That doesn't make it any less dangerous though.


 
Yaksmeat-Lemon is probably veering between worrying about doing time, and having the chance of a "Hitler in Landsberg Prison" moment. Might not be desperation, it could be (although this is probably attributing more sense to Yaksmeat than he actually has) publicity-seeking. He may be planning to use his court appearance(s) as a forum for his politics, and all this argy-bargy by his followers is a good way to keep him and his cause in the media spotlight (or should that be "searchlight"? ) until he goes before the beak.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2011)

revlon said:


> so you agree that dave the chav saying 'i hate muslims' on his facebook page isn't particularly new , or particularly dangerous. Documenting their every utterance only has a meaning, a purpose if those utterances translate into something tangible in the real world.  What's the purpose of watching the edl? There has to be more than 'look what tommy sed in this youtube clip lol'
> 
> I know it's part of the process, especially coming from a postion of weakness and ineffectiveness, to belittle the enemy - the far right have been doing it for years, but the edl haven't gone away and they are more than happy to confront the left, on their terms. Been pointed out before it's the police who have effectively neutralised the edl's ability to mobilise big numbers for symbolic demos, but they haven't gone away.
> 
> ...


 
I'd say that not only does the EDL allow the far-right to "get back on the streets", it allows them to do so via a political medium (the EDL) that although composed of much the same people, doesn't have the image problems or the history of the BNP or NF, and can therefore "get away" with a bit more, at least in the eyes of the media and the political establishment.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2011)

allybaba said:


> I see AFA type groups making a comeback if the attacks on the leftys continue.


 
Although not from the SWP membership, obviously. Wouldn't want any squaddism, would they?


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## Red Storm (Jun 19, 2011)

http://manchesterafa.org/2011/06/19/edl-attack-rage-against-racism-gig/

Manchester AFA have done a mini write up about the EDL attack on the Rage Against Racism gig.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Not against a mob.


 
Which is generally how "bashers", whether of "pakis" or whoever, operate, because one-on-one is a bit too much like a fair fight.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> http://manchesterafa.org/2011/06/19/edl-attack-rage-against-racism-gig/
> 
> Manchester AFA have done a mini write up about the EDL attack on the Rage Against Racism gig.


 
Decent piece that. I've been hearing good things about MAFA and the Liverpool antifascists. It's to be hoped that others will take heed.


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## manny-p (Jun 19, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Which is generally how "bashers", whether of "pakis" or whoever, operate, because one-on-one is a bit too much like a fair fight.


 
True. Although these are the tactics we should use against them.  fight fire with fire


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## Corax (Jun 19, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> That said, sniggering at their online content serves a purpose *if* it facilitates being able to publicly deconstruct their politics "in real life".


 
I think this is the point that I've been trying but probably failing to articulate.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 19, 2011)

revlon said:


> so you agree that dave the chav saying 'i hate muslims' on his facebook page isn't particularly new , or particularly dangerous. Documenting their every utterance only has a meaning, a purpose if those utterances translate into something tangible in the real world.  What's the purpose of watching the edl? There has to be more than 'look what tommy sed in this youtube clip lol'
> 
> I know it's part of the process, especially coming from a postion of weakness and ineffectiveness, to belittle the enemy - the far right have been doing it for years, but the edl haven't gone away and they are more than happy to confront the left, on their terms. Been pointed out before it's the police who have effectively neutralised the edl's ability to mobilise big numbers for symbolic demos, but they haven't gone away.
> 
> ...


 
Charting their every utterence has never been my vibe, though it is useful in creating a comprehensive picture of racism and violent intent which contradicts their shallow claims to the contrary.

You are right that the EDL have been a catalyst for making the far right confident. You are wrong, IMO, about the big demos - they have lost their broad appeal and have stagnated at best in terms of numbers.

the "FB obsessives" don't just sneer at bad spelling and thinly veiled racism, they challenge on the politics and have frequently cited the sort of activities you claimed they failed to. They predicted this kind of activity would happen more and brought attention to them when they did. 

Belittling the opposition is indeed a common and often useless thing, so is slagging off people on your own side for stuff that isn't even true.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 19, 2011)




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## audiotech (Jun 19, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Although not from the SWP membership, obviously. Wouldn't want any squaddism, would they?



In the late 70's what the SWP said in my neck of the woods had no bearing whatsoever to what happened on the ground from those who despised bullies of any kind. Fascists who happened to unwittingly venture into pubs where they subsequently wished they hadn't (one even advertised his stupidity by wearing a swastika armband that was unceremoniously removed, just before a crate of bottles was planted on his head) can testify to this affect.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 19, 2011)

audiotech said:


> In the late 70's what the SWP said in my neck of the woods had no bearing whatsoever to what happened on the ground from those who despised bullies of any kind. Fascists who happened to unwittingly venture into pubs where they subsequently wished they hadn't (one even advertised his stupidity by wearing a swastika armband that was unceremoniously removed, just before a crate of bottles was planted on his head) can testify to this affect.


 
In my neck of the woods in the late '70s, the SWP's sole contribution at a series of community meetings on the estates around Clapham Junction station, where there was a lot of fly-posting of NF material, and a lot of physical aggro because the boneheads had a bolthole (the Pine Tavern on Plough Rd) where they could leg it to and pretend they'd been there all the time, was "physical confrontation is a no-no. It makes you as bad as them". Needless to say, that didn't impress a lot of folks, who were more worried about chasing off cunts who were picking mob-handed on black individuals, than in having the Swappies morally-reproaching them. 

I honestly thought at the time that it must have been local Swappies bottling it. I later found out (after a couple of wasted years) that although the SWP talked a good game about being alongside the working class, for a majority of them, that meant in mind rather than body.


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## FreddyB (Jun 19, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Decent piece that. I've been hearing good things about MAFA and the Liverpool antifascists. It's to be hoped that others will take heed.


 
Unfortunately it's a lot of bollocks. They sat behind their stall as though none of it was anything to do with them and only got up when it was  suggested to them they might want to move away from the window.

E2A: A proper account is the EDL turned up, 3 or 4 people (who were fuck all to do with MAFA) went outside and told them to fuck off, they're not coming in, the EDL threw bircks and cans, someone got hit in the face by something thrown by the EDL, a few windows went through the EDL dicks got nicked. The rest is internet cock waving.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2011)

Which is why it's always a good idea to get more than one version of events 

The analysis is fairly sound though, even if it's fairly obvious to most of us, there's a hell of a lot of "antifascists" who don't appear to really understand what's happening with the EDL or what they represent.


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## FreddyB (Jun 19, 2011)

. The EDL had txt the organiser of the event an hour before they rocked up, had made threats on the Facebook page of the event that they would disrupt it. They then turn up and try to do that, smash someone's face in with a missile after they were decided against trying to gain entry past 4 people who stood their ground. 

Edit. Removed details now removed from the original blog post


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2011)

They're claiming that information was already in the public domain but I agree it's still pretty irresponsible.


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## Red Storm (Jun 19, 2011)

@FreddyB. All the specifics and particulars are taken from organiser of the Rage Against Racism gig. The article makes no attempt to say it was MAFA who confronted them and unfortunately only a few could attend. The mention of the other anti fascist group was requested to be put in. 

The specifics and particulars are taken from a number of different sources which were all in the public domain before the article. Some were saying there were 25 EDL and others a dozen. Some said 3 windows and the door was broke and others just 2 windows. Coshes have been mentioned by numerous people including the organiser. 

The article makes no attempt to pretend to be an eye witness account. It is a new report, some news reports get things wrong that's why at the bottom it says it will be updated as more comes out and the article has be updated throughout the day.


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## FreddyB (Jun 19, 2011)

A news report? Are they antifascists or journalists?  And by the public domain do they mean some people were talking about it? Is an exciting blog post really that important? It's absolute madness.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2011)

In that piece it talks about the EDL saying the UAF "racists" shouldn't be at an anti-racist gig. UAF are shit but I don't understand how the EDL can claim they're racist? Or is it the age old far right tactic of claiming that anyone who opposes them is anti-white? I'd love to hear what it is that makes them racist in the eyes of the EDL.

Maybe Arthur can enlighten me?


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## Red Storm (Jun 19, 2011)

It's important for anti-fascists to report events for others and it can be politically useful in a number of ways. By public domain I mean a domain in which the public can easily access the information. The MAFA website or facebook for example, I don't mean someone has said it on the street. The claims had already been made electronically in a public area. The author of the article has only used information that was already out there on the internet. 

I do take your point about security however the information was already out there. I have taken some of your points on board however. The article will be finalised without any further amendments tomorrow probably.


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## Red Storm (Jun 19, 2011)

@spineynorman. The EDL calling the UAF racists is an actual quote. That was their excuse they used for attacking the gig on the RAR facebook event page.

I don't even think they believe that bullshit anymore.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2011)

Hang on, if the only other places where the info is available are the MAFA facebook and website that doesn't reflect very well on MAFA does it? They've made public information that could potentially get people into a lot of trouble. I thought by already in the public domain you meant that it had already been reported by others


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## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2011)

Snowy - a brush with the EDL



An intresting watch.


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## Prince Rhyus (Jun 19, 2011)

http://www.repeatfanzine.co.uk/antinazi/unity statement.htm - sounds like they're coming to Cambridge next


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## josef1878 (Jun 20, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Snowy - a brush with the EDL
> 
> 
> 
> An intresting watch.




I had tears in my eyes. His love for Tommy is clear. There's a full length feature in this.....


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## Red Storm (Jun 20, 2011)

@spineynorman. No the information was put on the public domain by attendants of the event not by MAFA. The specifics and particulars of the article were all put in the public domain (mainly the internet) by individual attendees of the RAR gig. 

The author, along with hundreds of others, have read these specifics and particulars and so the author have used these. None of the specifics and particulars were actually put in the public domain by people associated with MAFA.


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## moonstomp (Jun 20, 2011)

*red storm/MAFA*

I think the main point is that your account on your website is  too graphic in detail and names or alludes to members of a certain group being involved in the trouble at the door which doesnt do anyone any favours and is potentially going to bring down unwarranted attention form the police.I think a bit of youthfull exhuberance is probably the cause and also naievity of the reporting. A good idea would be to take it down and alter it as its being picked up and linked to all over the place .Good to see theres some youth getting involved so don't take it personal mate


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## cantsin (Jun 20, 2011)

FreddyB said:


> . The EDL had txt the organiser of the event an hour before they rocked up,* had made threats on the Facebook page of the event* that they would disrupt it. They then turn up and try to do that, smash someone's face in with a missile after they were decided against trying to gain entry past 4 people who stood their ground.
> 
> Edit. Removed details now removed from the original blog post



which is why a small group dedicating time to screen grabbing EDL members (often temporary) FB postings can hardly be called a waste of time.


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## The39thStep (Jun 20, 2011)

cantsin said:


> which is why a small group dedicating time to screen grabbing EDL members (often temporary) FB postings can hardly be called a waste of time.


 
It is if there is no connection with actually preventing them from what they are saying they are going to do,


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## The39thStep (Jun 20, 2011)

audiotech said:


> In the late 70's what the SWP said in my neck of the woods had no bearing whatsoever to what happened on the ground from those who despised bullies of any kind. Fascists who happened to unwittingly venture into pubs where they subsequently wished they hadn't (one even advertised his stupidity by wearing a swastika armband that was unceremoniously removed, just before a crate of bottles was planted on his head) can testify to this affect.


 
and to Violent panda

Interesting because  the Communist party and its middle class and faith based popular front all criticised the SWP in the late 70s their violent confrontation of the NF.The CP would normally have a demo before the Front turned up and then try and lead everyone away from where the counter demo was. In West and North west London the CP would dismiss the SWP as the 'throw a brick party' and in someways the ANL launch was to stop the potential marginalisation of the SWP confronting the fash by appealing to those outside of the organised left hence the huge numbers of working class youth who flooded into the ANL. It wasn't just the CP , both Militant and the WRP wouldn't get their hands dirty.

The SWP at the time appealed to what  as what it saw as the real communist tradition ie Cable Street, the National Unemployed Workers Movement, it promoted Joe Jacobs Out of the Ghetto as well as the 43 group.

In West and North West London those in and around IS/SWP  were actually the core of violence against the NF paper sales and were actively encouraged by both Deason and Holborrow.


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## cantsin (Jun 20, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> It is if there is no connection with actually preventing them from what they are saying they are going to do,


 
that  goes w/o saying,surely, but it doesnt mean that some info  from  unmoderated posts from rank and file EDL members on FB  isnt useful , and justifies being looked at alongside the comedy rants etc ?


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## revlon (Jun 20, 2011)

cantsin said:


> which is why a small group dedicating time to screen grabbing EDL members (often temporary) FB postings can hardly be called a waste of time.



with all bob's flotsam and jetsam he missed posting up the edl facebook threat to the leeds gig. You see? The important gets lost amongst the trite, the specious and the utterly banal. 



> Documenting their every utterance only has a meaning, a purpose if those utterances translate into something tangible in the real world. What's the purpose of watching the edl? There has to be more than 'look what tommy sed in this youtube clip lol'


----------



## Fingers (Jun 20, 2011)

cantsin said:


> that  goes w/o saying,surely, but it doesnt mean that some info  from  unmoderated posts from rank and file EDL members on FB  isnt useful , and justifies being looked at alongside the comedy rants etc ?



Well yes. On another note, some of the halfwits have been plastering Facebook of pictures taken with Tommy at Dagenham on Saturday. His bail conditions explicitly state that he is not to have anything to do with the EDL or demos and the screenshotters have accidently passed the screenshots onto Beds police. Looks like he could get lifted adn transported to HMP today or tomorrow.

I can't see then not doing so after getting on the wrong side of Therea May and the racist attack on two asian at that same demo.

The downside of that is he will be martyd by his knuckle dragging followers who beleive there should be one law for them and a different law for Muslims (oh the irony)


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## Ranbay (Jun 20, 2011)

They have become what they set out to appose.


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## FreddyB (Jun 20, 2011)

The threats were posted onto the facebook wall of the gig's page. I've no idea if they posted anything on their own pages. They failed and they were nicked. I'd hope they're also charged, the evidence of conspiracy and subsequent violent disorder / criminal damage is there for even the most inept copper to find. 

For other events that might get attention the lesson to take from this is to make sure you've got a few people with cool heads and the confidence to stand their ground. The EDL in this case were classic bullies once it was obvious that they weren't going to gain entry by intimidation alone they didn't want to know, threw some stuff and went/ got nicked.


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## Anudder Oik (Jun 20, 2011)

The SWP organized squads in the late 70's which were made up of blue collar members who had come into politics through the numerous strikes and struggles of that period. 

Nowadays, the SWP has no blue collar, so to speak, so they couldn't organize squads even if they wanted to (by this I'm given to understand that middle class cadre are against the idea of squads because they r not physically up to it). Most of their members have come to them thru an individual sense of rebelliousness at uni and not thru real struggle.

Anyone who claims to be anti fascist should at least be able to throw a decent punch. It's not exactly a cuddly hobby is it...


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> and to Violent panda
> 
> Interesting because  the Communist party and its middle class and faith based popular front all criticised the SWP in the late 70s their violent confrontation of the NF.The CP would normally have a demo before the Front turned up and then try and lead everyone away from where the counter demo was. In West and North west London the CP would dismiss the SWP as the 'throw a brick party' and in someways the ANL launch was to stop the potential marginalisation of the SWP confronting the fash by appealing to those outside of the organised left hence the huge numbers of working class youth who flooded into the ANL. It wasn't just the CP , both Militant and the WRP wouldn't get their hands dirty.



I can't speak to what the SWP were up to on your side of the Thames, only about their pitiful behaviour in my area.



> The SWP at the time appealed to what  as what it saw as the real communist tradition ie Cable Street, the National Unemployed Workers Movement, it promoted Joe Jacobs Out of the Ghetto as well as the 43 group.
> 
> 
> 
> In West and North West London those in and around IS/SWP  were actually the core of violence against the NF paper sales and were actively encouraged by both Deason and Holborrow.


 
"Actively" as in mandated, or "actively" as in "given a nod and a wink"?


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> The SWP organized squads in the late 70's which were made up of blue collar members who had come into politics through the numerous strikes and struggles of that period.



Personally, I was just fed up with that cunt Webster (who lived in Clapham Junction at the time) sliming his greasy arse around the local estates giving it the "king turd of shit mountain" _schtick_ and thinking that he and his boys could get away with anything they wanted.
Plus, the NF then was still broadly anti-Semitic, which boiled my piss. 



> Nowadays, the SWP has no blue collar, so to speak, so they couldn't organize squads even if they wanted to (by this I'm given to understand that middle class cadre are against the idea of squads because they r not physically up to it). Most of their members have come to them thru an individual sense of rebelliousness at uni and not thru real struggle.
> 
> Anyone who claims to be anti fascist should at least be able to throw a decent punch. It's not exactly a cuddly hobby is it...


 
Thing is, I'm not sure that even if they had access to a "blue collar" nowadays, they'd actually do anything beyond wagging the finger. They seem to concentrate so heavily on (for want of a better description) "political legitimacy" nowadays that I'm not sure they'd be willing to queer their pitch by engaging in or even supporting physical direct action.


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## The39thStep (Jun 20, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> I can't speak to what the SWP were up to on your side of the Thames, only about their pitiful behaviour in my area.
> 
> 
> 
> "Actively" as in mandated, or "actively" as in "given a nod and a wink"?


 
Mandated in private and given a nod and a wink in public. I think the trouble was  that once it started they had problems controlling it.


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## audiotech (Jun 20, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> and to Violent panda
> 
> Interesting because  the Communist party and its middle class and faith based popular front all criticised the SWP in the late 70s their violent confrontation of the NF.The CP would normally have a demo before the Front turned up and then try and lead everyone away from where the counter demo was. In West and North west London the CP would dismiss the SWP as the 'throw a brick party' and in someways the ANL launch was to stop the potential marginalisation of the SWP confronting the fash by appealing to those outside of the organised left hence the huge numbers of working class youth who flooded into the ANL. It wasn't just the CP , both Militant and the WRP wouldn't get their hands dirty.
> 
> ...



Don't forget Duncan Hallas, who Cliff consulted before coming to a decision about Lewisham in '77. I remember Hallas being interviewed on national news making it clear what the tactic would be on that day.


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## audiotech (Jun 20, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Personally, I was just fed up with that cunt Webster (who lived in Clapham Junction at the time) sliming his greasy arse around the local estates giving it the "king turd of shit mountain" _schtick_ and thinking that he and his boys could get away with anything they wanted.



He failed miserably when he turned up in Leeds and ended up visiting the local hospital with a fat lip.


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## Anudder Oik (Jun 20, 2011)

I bet the UAF were relieved it wasn't their gig in Leeds. 

I mean, what would they do if an EDL gang turned up and were, ironically, led by a mixed race guy?


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 20, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> I bet the UAF were relieved it wasn't their gig in Leeds.
> 
> I mean, what would they do if an EDL gang turned up and were, ironically, led by a mixed race guy?


 
Collapse to the ground babbling "does not compute, does not compute"?


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## steviecaldwell (Jun 20, 2011)

*they were beaten . 4 of us . 25 edl . very sore heads all round*



The39thStep said:


> The gig that had the strap line :
> 
> If you are going to smash another group then at least prepare for them to do the same to you



yes , we will smash all boneheads and edl wherever they appear, we aintUAF or any other lollipop organisation . we are angry anti fa willing to fight . the edl smashed 2 windows at his gig . we smashed 3 of their stupid heads. result!!


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## steviecaldwell (Jun 20, 2011)

no matter what race , arseholes are arseholes and will be smashed


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## moonstomp (Jun 20, 2011)

Yawn !


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## revlon (Jun 21, 2011)

almost forget, the news from nowhere radical bookshop in liverpool had a visit from the edl recently. Real world stuff. 



> The EDL did not target this bookshop because it’s part of the ‘main trade union and labour movement’ (it probably isn’t anyway) – that would be unknown to all except a tiny clique of far-left nerds. They targeted this bookshop because Trotskyists, Communists and left-liberals have systematically and opportunistically supported the very Islamofascists the EDL is against. Without the far-left types who run this bookshop, the threat of Islamism, and even Islamoterrorism, would not be as great as it actually is.
> 
> Leftists have also systematically attempted to destroy and/or ban the EDL. They have declared war on it. It follows, then, that they shouldn’t be surprised when we fight back and commits acts of self-defence (such as what happened at the bookshop).


htt ps://casualsunited.wordpress.com/tag/news-from-nowhere/

Self justifying and unapologetic. This is the future comrades.


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## Arthur2 (Jun 21, 2011)

When you realise that people generally have had enough of seeing our country destroyed then the left might learn some lessons from it.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...de-of-right-wing-nationalism-115875-22951794/

Re the attack or so called attack at the Dagenham march, what appears to have happened is that 4 MDL confronted the marchers and one of them spat in the face of an EDL and was knocked to the ground, 2 ran off and the stewards protected the remaining 2 and escorted them away, so they were not just innocent Asians, they were MDL, the same MDL that threw rocks at our coaches and smashed a EDL women in the face out side the court that Tommy was appearing in.
The whole thing was a stitch up, especially when the interview took place and a so called witness just happened to drive by.

The statement by the Casuals a few posts above is exactly right, the left attacked us first, so what do you expect, that we would not defend ourselves and we didn't attack the bookshop, we disrupted it for a while.

Arthur.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Mandated in private and given a nod and a wink in public. I think the trouble was  that once it started they had problems controlling it.


 
Hardly surprising, though.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2011)

audiotech said:


> He failed miserably when he turned up in Leeds and ended up visiting the local hospital with a fat lip.


 
Wanker. What sort of crybaby visits a hospital for a fat lip, ffs!


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2011)

revlon said:


> almost forget, the news from nowhere radical bookshop in liverpool had a visit from the edl recently. Real world stuff.
> 
> 
> htt ps://casualsunited.wordpress.com/tag/news-from-nowhere/
> ...


 
I see that the boneheads are as good at logical argument as they've ever been.

Love the way they elide any analysis of the fact that it was under a right-wing government that Islamism took root in the UK, with Thatch and Major's Home Secs letting in all kinds of fruitloops from the Middle East and North Africa.

Fucking lightweight halfwit cunts.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> When you realise that people generally have had enough of seeing our country destroyed then the left might learn some lessons from it.
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...de-of-right-wing-nationalism-115875-22951794/
> 
> Re the attack or so called attack at the Dagenham march, what appears to have happened is that 4 MDL confronted the marchers and one of them spat in the face of an EDL and was knocked to the ground, 2 ran off and the stewards protected the remaining 2 and escorted them away, so they were not just innocent Asians, they were MDL, the same MDL that threw rocks at our coaches and smashed a EDL women in the face out side the court that Tommy was appearing in.
> ...


 
"We" this, and "we" that, Arthur.

I get the feeling the nearest you ever get to "the action" is one-handed surfing while you read about Yakmeat-Lemon's latest exploits.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 21, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> When you realise that people generally have had enough of seeing our country destroyed then the left might learn some lessons from it.
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...de-of-right-wing-nationalism-115875-22951794/
> 
> Re the attack or so called attack at the Dagenham march, what appears to have happened is that 4 MDL confronted the marchers and one of them spat in the face of an EDL and was knocked to the ground, 2 ran off and the stewards protected the remaining 2 and escorted them away, so they were not just innocent Asians, they were MDL, the same MDL that threw rocks at our coaches and smashed a EDL women in the face out side the court that Tommy was appearing in.
> ...


 
It's always a conspiracy, isn't it Arthur? How exactly do you know this when you're miles away in Italy? Did you get it from the "unbiased" EDL messageboards by any chance?

And how did "the left" attack you? Who? When? 

You don't like it when we (rightly in most cases) lump the EDL in with the NF/BNP/BPP etc yet you think it's perfectly valid to lump us in with the SWP.

Maybe I'm asking too much, I suppose a bit of honesty and consistency is beyond you.

The most hilarious, yet at the same time tragic, thing in all this is the fact that it's conservative, ie. right wing, Islamists you claim to be opposing. If they're on anyone's "side" it's yours.


----------



## treelover (Jun 21, 2011)

'almost forget, the news from nowhere radical bookshop in liverpool had a visit from the edl recently. Real world stuff. '


Very very worrying, this was common in the 80's when NFN was based near the Mersey Tunnel, I once nearly got stabbed in the early hours trying to stop some boneheads from smashing in the windows, i went to get help from the Tunnel Police, they were quite sneering and seemed sympathetic to the facists, never forgot that..


----------



## krink (Jun 21, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> When you realise that people generally have had enough of seeing our country destroyed then the left might learn some lessons from it.


 
who does the edl say is destroying the country? islamists? are you for fucking real? i tell you who is doing the destroying, it's the rulers of this country not some fucking muslims. 

you edl are 100% CLASS TRAITOR, SCAB BASTARDS.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 21, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's always a conspiracy, isn't it Arthur? How exactly do you know this when you're miles away in Italy? Did you get it from the "unbiased" EDL messageboards by any chance?
> 
> And how did "the left" attack you? Who? When?
> 
> ...



I'm in Italy for the summer and I keep in touch with my local division via email.

The first time I was attacked was on the Wilders support march and I got hit with a coin and an egg by the SWP.

Every single EDL protest has been attacked by the UAF and friends and the only reason our local division meetings haven't been attacked is because the left don't know where and when.

How about the little gangs of the SWP in Glasgow hunting for lone SDL and EDL.

Arthur.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 21, 2011)

You are lucky you have so many police around you. the demo i went to there was people there who wanted to kill you, they had sticks and other weapons.... they where not UAF and they where not MDL. Many many people want to attack you cos your racist cunts and for no other reason.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 21, 2011)

So it did come from the EDL then. Hardly an unbiased source, is it Arthur? Of course they're claiming it was an heroic defence against Islamists - saying it was 50 or whatever EDL attacking a couple of lone Muslamics without provocation wouldn't really do much for their heroic hardman image, would it?

And what do the SWP have to do with the News from Nowhere bookshop? Or the antiracist gig in Leeds? Or us?

LOL @ you getting "attacked" by the super-hard SWP though.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 21, 2011)

Little gangs of the SWP ... hitting people over the head with an offensive paper.


----------



## krink (Jun 21, 2011)

thanks for the morale-boost arfuh, good to hear you scabs are regularly attacked. sincerely hope it gets worse for you.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 21, 2011)

They'll be garrotting brave patriots with Palestinian scarves next.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 21, 2011)

One solution ...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 21, 2011)

I went to a counter-demo once, in Bolton, to see what was going on more than anything. I didn't see anyone on the anti-EDL side throwing anything, though it's more than possible that a few eggs were lobbed over. What I did see, however, were at least 5 empty glass vodka bottles (the big ones) thrown from the EDL side. Not at the front of the crowd, where the wannabe hard-men were standing, but over their heads to where there were women and children trying to listen to the (admittedly tedious and cringe worthy) speeches of the SWP. Nobody was hurt but that was by luck rather than judgement.

The whole thing, from both sides, was utterly pointless.


----------



## FreddyB (Jun 21, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'm in Italy for the summer and I keep in touch with my local division via email.
> 
> The first time I was attacked was on the Wilders support march and I got hit with a coin and an egg by the SWP.
> 
> ...


 
I was at the EDL's first outing in Brum and no one attacked them. They just stood behind the police shouting "dirty paki bastards" etc. The second time the EDL turned up the locals were expecting them and they got kicked up and down New Street. No UAF/SWP/left involvement at all.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'm in Italy for the summer and I keep in touch with my local division via email.
> 
> The first time I was attacked was on the Wilders support march and I got hit with a coin and an egg by the SWP.
> 
> ...


 
"Division" *snigger*


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2011)

FreddyB said:


> I was at the EDL's first outing in Brum and no one attacked them. They just stood behind the police shouting "dirty paki bastards" etc. The second time the EDL turned up the locals were expecting them and they got kicked up and down New Street. No UAF/SWP/left involvement at all.


 
And you've got to ask, how the fuck would the UAF "attack" the EDL? Preach at them until they stuck pencils down their ears in a bid to get away from the droning noise?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 21, 2011)

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....r_yorkshire_anti_racism_gig_stormed_1_3500239

Arrests after Yorkshire anti-racism gig stormed


----------



## audiotech (Jun 21, 2011)

This is nearer the truth of what happened.



> Several Blog/News posts have appeared on the internet regarding the Attack – some embellished with rumors/uncertain facts  and  sensationalized – at the time of the Attack hardly anyone besides Organizers, Stallholders and Bar Staff were there.



http://sabcat.com/news/uncategorized/edl-attack-rage-against-racism-gig-at-leeds/

Oh and ignore arfur2 as he's clearly on a wind-up.


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 21, 2011)

.


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 21, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/21/edl-march-white-working-class

Guardian article: It's too easy to ignore the EDL


----------



## audiotech (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm not arguing that the EDL should be ignored. Far from it, I've argued with people who should know better, not being political novices, who are ignoring the growth of English nationalism, with one response being a pathetic: "It's a red herring". Ignore at your peril was my reply.


----------



## FreddyB (Jun 21, 2011)

As long as the response of government and journalists is to talk about and address the "white working class" or the "Asian community" or any other section of society the problem will continue. Political multiculturalism is the problem. The EDL in my view can pretty much be ignored, what else are you going to do with them? 

Sure if you're putting on an event that's likely to attract their attention you need to arrange for the appropriate security but their trips into town centres are nothing that antifascists or anyone other political groups can do anything about and trying to is exactly what they want.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 21, 2011)

FreddyB said:


> As long as the response of government and journalists is to talk about and address the "white working class" or the "Asian community" or any other section of society the problem will continue. Political multiculturalism is the problem. The EDL in my view can pretty much be ignored, what else are you going to do with them?
> 
> Sure if you're putting on an event that's likely to attract their attention you need to arrange for the appropriate security but their trips into town centres are nothing that antifascists or anyone other political groups can do anything about and trying to is exactly what they want.


 
Yup. I would go for this. 

The problem with 'anti fascism' is that it isn't anti fascism


----------



## josef1878 (Jun 21, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....r_yorkshire_anti_racism_gig_stormed_1_3500239
> 
> Arrests after Yorkshire anti-racism gig stormed


 
That report is very similar to what i was told on Sunday afternoon by somebody who was there. It doesn't however report two other things that happened during the day that really made me


----------



## treelover (Jun 22, 2011)

'Yes, a lot of them are vile and negotiating with fanatics (left or right) is not the easiest of tasks'


RE, Guardian article, 

it was quite good apart from this bit, a lot?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 22, 2011)

steviecaldwell said:


> yes , we will smash all boneheads and edl wherever they appear, we aintUAF or any other lollipop organisation . we are angry anti fa willing to fight . the edl smashed 2 windows at his gig . we smashed 3 of their stupid heads. result!!


 
Jesus!


----------



## trevhagl (Jun 22, 2011)

josef1878 said:


> That report is very similar to what i was told on Sunday afternoon by somebody who was there. It doesn't however report two other things that happened during the day that really made me


 
was that us being mistaken for em!! I'm still laughing about it now, maybe we just look too dodgy!


----------



## treelover (Jun 22, 2011)

stereotypes eh, 




or latent middle class prejudice?


----------



## trevhagl (Jun 22, 2011)

treelover said:


> stereotypes eh,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
what, by the old bill?


----------



## krink (Jun 22, 2011)

trev you do look dodgy though!
what happened? sounds funny. what was your take on events?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 23, 2011)

Here's an interesting video for EDL and UAF alike. Enjoy...


----------



## krink (Jun 23, 2011)

I love that video - still have my vhs copy I got from London AFA back then...does anyone know which documentary had even more footage of waterloo? i can clearly remember seeing one of the local boneheads from up here in the north getting floored but cannot think what documentary it was in...


----------



## sunny jim (Jun 24, 2011)

Ive just heard some EDL are at Glastonbury, flying their flag. Maybe any urbanites might want to go and tell them what they think of them. When we find out where they are I'll post it here.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 24, 2011)

WTF? that will go down well with all the left wing commie hippies and the great un washed.... my wife is there i will ask to keep an eye out.


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## sunny jim (Jun 24, 2011)

Theyve got trader passes so that might mean they're on the main drag. Flying an EDL division flag apparently.


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## Ranbay (Jun 24, 2011)

Got a few mates with stalls that would not be happy seeing them there.... will be intresting to see how the weekend pans out for them. Last year it would have been hard to spot them what with the football and everything.


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## DrRingDing (Jun 24, 2011)

EDL in Cambridge 9th July.....big counter demo planned if any of yoos fancy it.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 24, 2011)

sunny jim said:


> Ive just heard some EDL are at Glastonbury, flying their flag. Maybe any urbanites might want to go and tell them what they think of them. When we find out where they are I'll post it here.


 
the urbanites or the edl?


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## Ranbay (Jun 24, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> EDL in Cambridge 9th July.....big counter demo planned if any of yoos fancy it.


 
Saving myself for tower hamlets if they pick a date.


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## DrRingDing (Jun 24, 2011)

An EDL camp at Glasto would be a sitting duck.

Wait until they fuck off and then take a dump in their tents.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 24, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> An EDL camp at Glasto would be a sitting duck.
> 
> Wait until they fuck off and then take a dump in their tents.


 
i don't see what's so special about that. people do that at glasto every year to random strangers.


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## DrRingDing (Jun 24, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't see what's so special about that. people do that at glasto every year to random strangers.


 
I didn't see the caveat that this needs a 'special' response. 

Do it while eating a halal kebab?


----------



## stuff_it (Jun 24, 2011)

9th July, Derby, Anti-EDL jobby http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/351129-Anti-EDL-march-Derby-(lol)-9th-July

The lol is cause Derby always deserves a lol


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## DrRingDing (Jun 24, 2011)

The EDL are spreading themselves thin on that day. I believe there are a couple more demos going on too that Saturday.


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## Ranbay (Jun 24, 2011)

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/9105254.EDL_founder_denies_Blackburn_assault/



> Lennon was granted bail on conditions of residence, that he reports to his local police station on Saturday afternoons and does not participate in public protests that are 12 miles away from his home town.




LOLOLOLOL


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 24, 2011)

Now officially the most embarrassing thread in P&P


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## DrRingDing (Jun 24, 2011)

You're so regal butchers. I'm giddy with awe.


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## butchersapron (Jun 24, 2011)

Run around some more.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 24, 2011)

It should be in general. It's been a lol thread for ages. I'm sure it set out with good intentions.


----------



## manny-p (Jun 24, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Now officially the most embarrassing thread in P&P


 
What does P&P mean?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 24, 2011)

Politics and protest - the overarching category for this forum


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## mr steev (Jun 24, 2011)

Looks like the EDL are paying a visit to Nuneaton again... just got a message off a mate who was due to be playing a gig there tonight but they've closed the pub


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## manny-p (Jun 24, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Politics and protest - the overarching category for this forum


 
Ahh I see.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 24, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> The EDL are spreading themselves thin on that day. I believe there are a couple more demos going on too that Saturday.


There is five or six I seem to remember.  The ones I can thnk of Derby (now surrendered) Plymouth, Cambridge, Middlesbrough


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## albionism (Jun 25, 2011)

sunny jim said:


> Ive just heard some EDL are at Glastonbury, flying their flag. Maybe any urbanites might want to go and tell them what they think of them. When we find out where they are I'll post it here.


 
They are probably there to protect U2 from UK Uncut


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## Prince Rhyus (Jun 25, 2011)

Several links on coverage of the Cambridge demo & counter demo:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Hom...-new-Cambridge-mosque-claims-EDL-21062011.htm - with lots of comments

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/Muslim-council-vows-to-oppose-extremism-24062011.htm - covering formation of "Cambridge Muslim Council"

http://www.cambs-police.co.uk/news/cambridge_edl_march/ - Police reaction

http://www.julianhuppert.org.uk/content/huppert-deplores-edl-plans-march-through-city - Reaction from local MP who will be shadowing police on day

http://hurryupharry.org/2011/06/21/the-edl-and-the-cambridge-mosque/ - report and comment from Harry's Place Blog

http://www.repeatfanzine.co.uk/antinazi/ - Cambridge UAF


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## Nigel (Jun 26, 2011)

Not sure if this is worth commenting on; N0rth W£st 1nfidels (St0ke) and their counter part in North West are openly racist along with their bitterness toward £DL.
On the N0rth W£ste !nfidels(St0ke) facebook page post with N0 remorse-0i monkey/W1l Br0


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 26, 2011)

Sorry, I don't understand the last part of that post Nigel (this part: "On the N0rth W£ste !nfidels(St0ke) facebook page post with N0 remorse-0i monkey/W1l Br0 ").


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## josef1878 (Jun 27, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Sorry, I don't understand the last part of that post Nigel (this part: "On the N0rth W£ste !nfidels(St0ke) facebook page post with N0 remorse-0i monkey/W1l Br0 ").


 
I'll give you a clue.....oi monkey get out of our.......... google the rest. wrong wrong wrong


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 27, 2011)

I got that part, what's the bit after all about though? "W1l Br0" (I'm quite pleased that I don't understand it to be honest, I've hardly led a sheltered life but I've had very little to do with hard racists)


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## Fingers (Jun 28, 2011)

Oh jeez, a mental leadership meltdown. Well more precisely Roberta Moore taking her last stand, it is serious, threats to kill etc. It is all over Expose's Facebook page for those that are interested, for those that are not jog on as they say.

Something has to give, the EDL are turining against her, the NWI/NEI are threatening to kill her and she is alledegly shagging Alan Lake who is chucking large amounts of money into the EDL. Something has to give.

Eastenders has never been this good, even when Dirty Den got slotted and came back to life like a cheap Kev Carroll


----------



## Fingers (Jun 29, 2011)

Some links, for those that do not like the Facebook stuff, the 'jog on' option is there, so is the ignore poster button. This infighting has repercussions on the leadership set up though and it will be itneresting to see how it pans out with Tommy and co.

Threats to kill Barrty Berta and Snowy has been taken in by the Elders of Zion bullshit

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/479/2412392804.png

Tommy has been informed (but will probably go into hiding for a bit)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=182039401853431&set=o.156228494442471&type=1&theater

Massive row between ex EDL Nazi Bill Baker and Batty Berta part one

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/479/7408620058.png

and part 2

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/479/7408620058.png

The only good outcome from this is if she is kicked out of the EDL and fucks off back to Brazil. The downside of this obviously will be the EDL will stabalize more but if their main benefactor is indeed boning her as rumours suggest, that could be a good thing


----------



## Fingers (Jun 29, 2011)

Roberta has left the building

http://www.facebook.com/notes/edl-e...icial/the-world-is-our-oyster/233649056647013


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 29, 2011)

In work and cant see it, can you C&P please mate


----------



## Fingers (Jun 29, 2011)

A load of bullshit about having been made a better offer on the 'international stage', nothing to do of course with the entire movement turning against her.



> Dear all, I have been made a great offer yesterday and therefore I am stepping down from the Jewish Division in order to take up that offer, which will take most of my time. While we are aware that the EDL is doing a fantastic job, but there are elements within that have hijacked the EDL for their own Nazi purposes.
> 
> I do not wish to be part of it any longer, but I will however help their genuine cause in whatever they need now that my arena has increased to an international level.
> I do wish the EDL the best of luck in this fight, as they surely need it. And I sincerely hope that the leaders will get the strength to squash the Nazis within, for they will destroy this movement if allowed to remain, and thus lose the fight against the Islamization of their countries.
> ...


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 29, 2011)

Cheers,

How will the pretend they are not Nazis now without the JDL?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 29, 2011)

Well, the whole thing is falling apart. The JD seems to be defunct unless the extremist Robert Barf takes over, there is also some batshit woman called Fern who seems to be in on the act. Tommy ain't allowed to have anything to do with the EDL. Kev Caroll has been a bit publicity shy since the imaginary attempted assassination by a jogger with an umbrella and Gurmarit seems to have left.

Most of the Northern Divisions and Midland Divisions had this as their page status update last night, plus it has come to light that Moore has registered EDL with companies house

"We stand with our brothers and fellow patriots. We however do not support the JDL and their leadership. Not in our name please"


----------



## treelover (Jun 29, 2011)

Fingers, don't you understand that even if the EDL collapses, something perhaps more amenable to more people may develop, that there are 'perceived' injustices that are not being addressed, in their opinion, same goes for the BNP, substantive far right parties exist across the EU, why should the Uk be any different?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 29, 2011)

I never said I didn't understand. Far right groups are never going to be amenable and if some party does address the perceived injustices and they are not violent and racist, I am fine with that.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 29, 2011)

Christ, even the foul Roberta Moore has quite due to too many nazis getting their fingers in the pie.

Why she left it this long is for her to answer.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/50932/edl-jewish-division-leader-roberta-moore-quits


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 29, 2011)

.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 29, 2011)

treelover said:


> Fingers, don't you understand that even if the EDL collapses, something perhaps more amenable to more people may develop, that there are 'perceived' injustices that are not being addressed, in their opinion, same goes for the BNP, substantive far right parties exist across the EU, why should the Uk be any different?



Anything overtly or covertly far right in this country might be met with too much distaste or implode due to internal factionalism. It would take some time for a definitively right non BNP electoral force to get very far. The best chance could be to infiltrate UKIP,  but it would probably harm them too and lots of them wouldn't be nearly so soft on racists and nazis as the EDL. But there is sufficient islamaphobia in UKIP to satisfy milder bigots. With the 2nd highest vote in the last Euro elections theirs is a success record that anything more extreme will never accomplish. Harsher bigots will remain on the margins, better organised and networked thanks to the EDL, but marginal nonetheless.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 29, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Christ, even the foul Roberta Moore has quite due to too many nazis getting their fingers in the pie.
> 
> Why she left it this long is for her to answer.
> 
> http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/50932/edl-jewish-division-leader-roberta-moore-quits



She is on record as saying that she is not bothered about the Nazi element as long as they kept their views to themselves. Her official statement is bullshit.  The tide turned against her when word spread that she had said that the British soldiers killed and tortured by Israel deserved it and then mocked the execution of Swedish UN peacekeepers. Word was also out that she had registered the English Defence League with Companies house.

Her views (above) have been in the public domain for months now but when she recently tried to get certain female members of the leadership axed, they were spread around and used against her and her position became untenable (especially her views on British soldiers)

She fell on her own sword, if she had not tried the recent cloak and dagger stuff she might still be there.

This however leaves a power vacumn in the Jewish Division which Robert Bartholomeus (Terrorist group Jewish Task Force member) seems to have filled. His hate filled views are even more vile than Moore's. Only last week he was calling for the rape of female members of the EDL who challenged his views. He is neither British or Jewish but he commented on the Jewish Div group that it would keep going. I doubt the Jewish Division has more than a couple of Jewish English  members, most seem to be tea partiers from the states and Israeli zionists.

I don't think the JD liability for the EDL is over yet. The leadership are going to have to formally sever ties with them and without their Jewish Division they are stuffed somewhat


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 30, 2011)

<deleted post>


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jun 30, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Word was also out that she had registered the English Defence League with Companies house.



Well, someone (whoever it is) has done something similar: Companies House site search

If this is indeed the EDL in question, they are now obliged to keep and submit official accounts, and be struck off if they repeatedly fail to do this.  Is this a troll/wind-up or actually the real thing?


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 30, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Christ, even the foul Roberta Moore has quite due to too many nazis getting their fingers in the pie.
> 
> Why she left it this long is for her to answer.
> 
> http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/50932/edl-jewish-division-leader-roberta-moore-quits




She had to go and it wasn't nazis that pushed her out, it was rank and file supporters who were fed up with her linking us to extremists and her stupid foot in the mouth rants and I was one of those who called for her to go.
The next one to go will be the odious Robert who tried to defend his friend RM with a rant that he wished a muslim would rape one of our women patriots, actually it was a lot nastier than that, I'm giving you the clean version.

We will clean up the Jewish division and bring it back as a division of the EDL, which is what they seem to have forgotten, it's not the JDL, it's the EDL JD.

Is this the death throws of the EDL, of course not, we are stronger than two people, it's just one division among a hundred, so don't believe the slanted views of the enemies of EDL, who of course look at every little thing we do, in the hope that they have defeated us, sorry to disappoint but we are still here.
Arthur.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 30, 2011)

and growing smaller


----------



## Arthur2 (Jun 30, 2011)

Fingers said:


> She is on record as saying that she is not bothered about the Nazi element as long as they kept their views to themselves. Her official statement is bullshit.  The tide turned against her when word spread that she had said that the British soldiers killed and tortured by Israel deserved it and then mocked the execution of Swedish UN peacekeepers. Word was also out that she had registered the English Defence League with Companies house.
> 
> Her views (above) have been in the public domain for months now but when she recently tried to get certain female members of the leadership axed, they were spread around and used against her and her position became untenable (especially her views on British soldiers)
> 
> ...


 
There will be a new Jewish division.

Arthur.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 30, 2011)

Which will be smaller


----------



## Corax (Jun 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Cheers,
> 
> How will the pretend they are not Nazis now without the JDL?


It's okay, they've still got teh gayz.



B0B2oo9 said:


> Which will be smaller


 Weren't there only about 6 of them anyway, and doubts about whether they were actually Jewish?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 30, 2011)

I read that the demo on the 9th will have no police liaison, would that not make it an ilegal demonstration?


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## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Cheers,
> 
> How will the pretend they are not Nazis now without the JDL?



bob, they can't! this is a list of known nazis and bnp members in the EDL (courtesy of UK Fightback!) but it needs updating. 

Tommy Robinson former BNP member.
EDL website was set-up by BNP activist Chris Renton.
EDL co-founder Paul Ray described Chris Renton as “de-facto Commander of the EDL.” Paul Ray says he’s been ostracized from the EDL for opposing Chris Renton linking with Combat 18 (C18).
EDL organizers Steven White and Luke Pippen are Combat 18 activists.
C18 activist Bryan Powell is an official EDL steward.
EDL Facebook + You Tube chat shows hundreds of EDL support racists like the BNP, NF, Blood and Honour, BFF, C18 and KKK.
EDL Wayne Baldwin has been pictured in a Swastika T-shirt.
EDL supporter Earl Turner has been shown wearing a British Freedom Fighters t-shirt
The Welsh Defence League is riddled with Nazis.
Scottish press famously revealed that dual membership of Scottish BNP and Scottish Defence League is almost 100%.
2nd in command Kevin Carroll nominated a BNP candidate for election, but claims he was tricked into doing this and claims he can’t be racist because he says he has a mixed-race daughter.
WDL finally ostracised Swansea C18 for refusing to stop making Nazi salutes on demos but Jeff Marsh is still happy to work with the known C18 members with whom he currently runs the WDL.
Luke Pippen Swansea C18 member runs the Casuals United Blog with EDL Wales / WDL founder Jeff Marsh.
Steven White, Jeff Marsh’s assistant has a Swastika tattoo on his chest and was pictured holding British Freedom Fighters t-shirt.

why is arthur supporting such charmers as these? Tommy Robinson is a career criminal who has served a year in prison for assaulting a copper who tried to stop him battering his girlfriend when he was on cocaine. Robinson is also under investigation for fraud as well as his arrests on demonstrations.
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/edl-latest-from-february/
There are numerous divisions and fallouts because the EDL is VERY lucrative: the merchandising in particular but also there are questions over the whereabouts of cash raised for the now excluded Snowy defence campaign and the Richard Price defence campaign. Other EDL members not opponents bought this up first which is how we found out about it. Richard Price was also done for crack and cocaine possession as well as kiddy porn and this despite the EDL being critical of ‘Islamic’ drug gangs. Drugs are illegal no matter who supplies them and patriots should observe the law of their land shouldnt they?
Oh and Snowy is currently promoting the hateful hoax The Protocols of Zion as a ‘real book.’ As do many white supremacists. Roberta Moore has also admitted there are nazis in the EDL and was fine with that as long as they didn’t air their views in public. What respectable Jewish person wants to be in an organisation with known nazis? She is out now as she has embarassed Robinson once too often. 
any thoughts Arthur?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 30, 2011)

Thanks Malatesta

"Lionheart" - himself something of a nationalist loon - left the EDL yonks ago citing nazi infiltration.

All EDL supporters must explain what the fuck they think they are doing bigging up an organisation so consistently used by nazis, fascists and racists for recruitment.

Don't hold your breath though. I've only had 2 decent answers. 1 said "I don't like it" before going back to his normal FB bullshit bigging them up. Another said he had complained to his regional organiser but soon found out they were especially riddled with nazis. 

The EDL are traitors and dupes. Case closed.


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## treelover (Jun 30, 2011)

dupes, but traitors, to whom?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 30, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> She had to go and it wasn't nazis that pushed her out, it was rank and file supporters who were fed up with her linking us to extremists and her stupid foot in the mouth rants and I was one of those who called for her to go.
> The next one to go will be the odious Robert who tried to defend his friend RM with a rant that he wished a muslim would rape one of our women patriots, actually it was a lot nastier than that, I'm giving you the clean version.
> 
> We will clean up the Jewish division and bring it back as a division of the EDL, which is what they seem to have forgotten, it's not the JDL, it's the EDL JD.
> ...


 
You're fucking mental.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 30, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> There will be a new Jewish division.
> 
> Arthur.


 
A Jewish division sans Jews?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> dupes, but traitors, to whom?


 
Think Jack London.


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## Corax (Jun 30, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> A Jewish division sans Jews?


 
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 1, 2011)

The nation they claim to defend and the working class so many claim to belong to.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 1, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The nation they claim to defend and the working class so many claim to belong to.


taffy, someone here called the EDL a scab outift which is pretty accurate. think about the early fascists breaking the general strike in 1926, the amount of grasses in the fascist movement in general and the EDLs verbal attacks on the student and anticuts demos. their idea of england is not one that a great many people relate to but a bigoted, intolerant, unintelligent, reactionary one that seems to pride itself on violence, public drunkeness and drug abuse whilst urinating on historical monuments like nottingham castle! how patriotic.


----------



## laptop (Jul 1, 2011)

No time today to read the typically long _New Yorker_ piece on the EDL.

I note,  though, that it (typically for US reportage) takes at face value EDL's claim that it "welcomed, and even solicits, the participation of blacks, Jews, Sikhs and gays".

Illustrator seems to have got the point better:





(will that work?)


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## Fingers (Jul 2, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> There will be a new Jewish division.
> 
> Arthur.



Your problem is the Jewish Division only has a handful of Jewish members as most decent Jews would not ahve anything to do with a far right organisation like the EDL.  The bulk of the likes are tea party members, israeli extremists/zionists and the charming robert who seems to have taken over.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 3, 2011)

*EDL Latest*

by ‘MacMalatesta’ & ‘Masala Tester’

Crivvens, Jings and Help Ma Boab! The members of the Tommy Robinson Band the English Defence League have been getting intae a right wee state this week over their various schisms and are running roond the forums like heedless haggis’s desperate for guidance from an increasingly distant leadership! Wee Tam has done a bit of a disappearing act recently: he is under bail conditions and must not have anything to do with the EDL. It also says on 1 forum that he is on a stag do abroad. Whether this is true or not we cannot verify but the statements that have come from EDL HQ certainly do not sound like him – ‘repudiate’ Tam? Crivvens! Whit does that mean? Kev Carroll, his ‘number 2,’ has also been maintaining radio silence so is anyone at EDL HQ or is that just Hel Gower tidying up the coke spoons and Pot Noodles? 

The EDL Leadership
Wee Tam Robinson originally prided himself on the EDL leaderships ‘multicultural racism’ stance and oft tooted their various ‘ethnic’ members to prove they aren’t racist but things have no been going tae well: of the original leadership Richard Price, once a ‘political prisoner,’  has now been excommunicated on conviction of child porn and crack and cocaine possession. Guarmit Singh – the token Sikh member – has resigned because his Nan is poorly. ‘Mixed race yoof leader’ Joel Titus is in prison. John ‘Snowy’ Shaw has gone all religious and is promoting the bogus Protocols of Zion. As this is the first ‘big book’ he has read he naturally thinks it must all be true. Puir wee thing! He was hoofed out early on despite his part in the Dudley ‘rooftop protest.’ He is currently siding with the North West and North East Infidel factions who split from the main EDL after the do at Blackburn where Tam ‘outed’ one of his critics who got a battering. Abdul, the Glaswegian Asian laddie, has been outed this week spouting anti-Catholic vitriol which is no going tae endear him to some of the EDL members of Irish descent – like Tommy Robinson and Kev Carroll. What is clear from the demos and internet chat is that Tam is losing both his leadership buddies and control over his followers. Although he still has a fair amount of sycophants, many on the forums are unhappy with him and Kev Carroll deciding everything and although the leadership said they are no longer liaising with plod many divisions are now organising their own flash demos irrespective of what happens in Luton. 

Flash! 
Many members have agreed that the static demos are frustrating: being stuck in a car park on the edge of town surrounded by nervous cops with no toilets and all the boozers closed is no fun. Hence the flash demos. However, the polis will no take kindly tae that kind of behaviour and come down hard like they did in Oldham last year when the EDL tried the same tactics there. They got battered and nicked. Other more sensible EDL have realised that this kind of deliberate disorder will just create negative publicity in the national media. Not that they get much positive coverage anyway. Next week is going to prove how effective the flash strategy when various divisions hold demos in their areas: Middlesboro, Bradford, Leeds, Cambridge, Clitheroe and Halifax have all threatened them and Halifax division held a trial one yesterday  though this was piss poor and covered in plod. There is the serious risk of spreading themselves too thinly as most of the demos are too close to each other to be really effective. The day could well end up as a washout. 

No Moore! 
The essentially paper Jewish Division had a dreadful week and lead heedbanger Roberta  Moore has finally been booted out over her increasingly uncontrollable outbursts and getting intae a reet tizzy with wee Tam over multiple things. Moore’s many infractions include attempting to align the EDL with various dodgy Zionists and internet fallouts with prominent  members. Many of the EDL membership have reacted positively to the ousting of Moore by saying they do not want anything to do with Israel and that they joined the ENGLISH Defence League. However, given that the leadership are funded by the Zionist Alan Lake wee Tam has made it clear that the EDL WILL support Israel whether the membership like it or not. Like most far-right groups the EDL depends on quantity not quality and have not been careful who they have sided with hence the final implosion with Moore. The EDL have already been fragmented by the Infidels split and this pro/anti Israel thing is going to likewise alienate a membership from whom the leadership is estranged and who are desperately seeking guidance and clarity. Neither of which are forthcoming (especially if Tam’s charlie’d up in a bar in Ibiza!). By the way, up here in auld Reekie we hear that the Scottish Defence League is still ‘yid free.’ Such wee charmers! 

Wee Tam & The Big Huge! 
As for Wee Tam, his legal problems pile up like fish supper wrappers on a Friday night. He is currently under bail restrictions and cannot have anything to do with the EDL although he still seems to be communicating with some members. He also has outstanding cases against him but not just to do with the EDL. Tam is a wee businessman and owns several properties and businesses and is under investigation for fraud. What is happening over this is unclear but we hope things work out for him. 

This week, the Muslim Debate Initiative invited the EDL to come and discuss their differences in neutral and civilised territory to which a lot of members reacted with a predictable flurry of racist abuse. The EDL will not publicly debate for 3 reasons: that many of the EDL’s arguments are flawed and do not stand up to scrutiny; that the leadership have no one left who is articulate enough to debate in public;  and that judging from their reactions they are unable to distinguish between moderate Muslims and the tiny percentage of Islamic extremists in the UK - as demonstrated by them singing ‘Mohammed/Allah is a pedo’ and assuming ‘moderate Muslims’ will not mind. 

There is still debate on whether the EDL should ‘go political’ but again they will suffer from the above 3 reasons, flawed arguments, inarticulacy and kneejerk racism. If they did ‘go official’ they would immediately disappear amongst the multiple initials of the BNP, the fluffy fascist BFP, UKIP, England 1st and any number of independent hopefuls desperate to lose their election deposits. 

In Conclusion ...
It’s no looking good Tam! The original leadership has been reduced to you and Kev with many on the forums questioning your wisdom. The EDL was splintered by the North West and North East Infidels who were sick of the leadership ‘down south’ bossing everyone and saying they have to like ‘Jews and Pakis’ and the infidels are more openly racist than Tam’s boys. Fellow travellers like Billy ‘Bunter’ Baker of the English Nationalist Alliance have been ostracised and now the Jewish division have been booted oot. It is clear that the EDL has suffered from egomania as well as factionalism but there is also the fact that it has proved to be a lucrative venture: the merchandising in particular but also there are questions over the whereabouts of cash raised for the now excluded Snowy defence campaign and the Richard Price defence campaign. Other EDL members not opponents bought this up first which is how we found out about it.  We will be watching how events unfold on next Saturday so see you then! Oh, and hello to Expose, keep it up! 
No Copyright, No Parmesan! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## treelover (Jul 3, 2011)

'There is still debate on whether the EDL should ‘go political’ but again they will suffer from the above 3 reasons, flawed arguments, inarticulacy and kneejerk racism. If they did ‘go official’ they would immediately disappear amongst the multiple initials of the BNP, the fluffy fascist BFP, UKIP, England 1st and any number of independent hopefuls desperate to lose their election deposits. '



I look forward to how Urban reports on what comes next after the BNP and EDL implode, as they will, I am sure it will be a lot more subtle and media friendly, complex, etc(the emerging new nationalists that is) and that coverage here reflects that..


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## malatesta32 (Jul 3, 2011)

I look forward to how Urban reports on what comes next after the BNP and EDL implode, as they will, I am sure it will be a lot more subtle and media friendly, complex, etc(the emerging new nationalists that is) and that coverage here reflects that..[/QUOTE]

BNP are in a terrible state with the Griffin faction, the new Brons' faction and the rebels led by Eddie Butler. Griffclops will hang on until he can retire with his 'savings' in Croatia in 2 years. he will not get re-elected as MEP. there is confusion with some as to why anyone would want to take over the shuttle crash that the BNP now is and there is a serious lack of clarity regarding the debts. there must be assetts worth clinging on to tho. what is worrying is the new 'non-racist' nationalist strategy - the fluffy BFP,ukip etc - but this is counterbalanced by the usual factionalism. the malatestas havent bothered reporting on the BNP as it is clear from the various forums that they are knackered and the EDL are too much fun to not watch implode. keep loving the trees!


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 3, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> I look forward to how Urban reports on what comes next after the BNP and EDL implode, as they will, I am sure it will be a lot more subtle and media friendly, complex, etc(the emerging new nationalists that is) and that coverage here reflects that..


 
I don't think there is enough of a gap in the market between UKIP and overtly racist / fascist outfits that will only ever get to a certain point before factionalism or overstepping general taste boundaries hamper them severely. But such organisations are still used to shift the dialectic rightward through the rightwing press and lamestream politics along the line of "we have to speak to concerns or the BNP/EDL types will gain ground".


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## Ranbay (Jul 8, 2011)

Busy day for the EDL tomorrow....

THE EDL WILL BE PROTESTING IN MIDDLESBROUGH
THE EDL WILL BE PROTESTING IN HALIFAX 
THE EDL WILL BE PROTESTING IN PLYMOUTH
THE EDL WILL BE PROTESTING IN CAMBRIDGE


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## Ranbay (Jul 9, 2011)

http://yfrog.com/kjctztj 

Nearly 400 #police raid a pub on Bethnal Green Road to move #EDL members out of the area


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## Divisive Cotton (Jul 9, 2011)

apparently they are at bethnal green station now


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## Ranbay (Jul 9, 2011)

They turned away loads of SDL and sent them back on the trians.


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## Ranbay (Jul 9, 2011)

some footage from Cambridge

http://www.twitvid.com/9YHNX


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## DrRingDing (Jul 9, 2011)

Come to Mill Road.


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## Fruitloop (Jul 9, 2011)

I just got in from Mill Road. Any pressing reason to go back right at the mo?


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## DrRingDing (Jul 9, 2011)

It's going to be a long night.

You've got my number.


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## Poot (Jul 9, 2011)

There was a protest here in Plymouth today. There was a police presence, but not a great turnout afaik. I didn't see it because I have small kids but there were more UAF than EDL and it looks as though it was a bit of a damp squib.


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## machine cat (Jul 9, 2011)

Protest here in Halifax today (they seem to be using this place as a fucking base camp ).


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## rightside (Jul 9, 2011)

*Uaf & edl demo pics*

Went to the demos today, here are my pics.

https://picasaweb.google.com/112837330052391802988/EDL


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## rightside (Jul 9, 2011)

https://picasaweb.google.com/112837330052391802988/EDL

my pics from the Plymouth EDL & UAF demos


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## barney_pig (Jul 9, 2011)

rightside said:


> https://picasaweb.google.com/112837330052391802988/EDL
> 
> my pics from the Plymouth EDL & UAF demos


a lot of protesters faces displayed there. perhaps some pixilation is in oerder?


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## rightside (Jul 9, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> a lot of protesters faces displayed there. perhaps some pixilation is in oerder?


 

crack on mate if you know how to do it


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## barney_pig (Jul 9, 2011)

what is the point of trying to shut down sites such as redwatch when some on our? side are happy to do their wrk for them?


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 10, 2011)

They were very thin on the ground today. With all 4 demos added up they were not much more than 1000 knob-heads. A lot of them were spotty adolescents and there were some ugly girls, too. 450 of them at halifax according to local paper. 

Cambridge turned out a 2000 strong anti racist demo.

Looks like their new strategy of doing several simultaneous demos hasn't worked.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> a lot of protesters faces displayed there. perhaps some pixilation is in oerder?


 
quite. only stupid wankers take pictures of demonstrators and put them up without taking some measures to anonymise them


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## machine cat (Jul 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> They were very thin on the ground today. With all 4 demos added up they were not much more than 1000 knob-heads. A lot of them were spotty adolescents and there were some ugly girls, too. *450 of them at halifax according to local paper*.
> 
> Cambridge turned out a 2000 strong anti racist demo.
> 
> Looks like their new strategy of doing several simultaneous demos hasn't worked.


 
Penned in the Eureka area and shipped off on the trains according to the press, which is far better than what's happened in recent months with them taking over town centre pubs and attacking passers by doing their Saturday shopping.


Shit for the kids and parents going to Eureka though


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## Fingers (Jul 10, 2011)

Eurika had to shut down for the day to accomodate these halfwits


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## Dhimmi (Jul 10, 2011)

Today's demos did reveal some shocking truths which I think you're ignoring...


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## Gingerman (Jul 10, 2011)

A certain Arthur posted this on another forum-" We are doing to them, UAF, what they have been doing to other groups for years, a taste of there own medicine and like the little babies they are they are crying about it. It's alright for them to turn up and and violently attack other groups but when the tables are turned it's another story.
Well, we are the EDL and these colours don't run and they are about to learn some hard lessons.

We will take the fight to all this countries enemies
NS"


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 10, 2011)

The left missed a trick in Plymouth they should have formed a Devonshire Defence League and handed out loads of Devon flags, with anti racist slogans on them, instead of having anarcho and Palestinian ones.


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## Fingers (Jul 10, 2011)

This has to be seen to be believed. The EDL's John 'Pigman' Gillman is back


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## Fingers (Jul 10, 2011)

And a summary of yesterday's events

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php?...711-failed-demos&catid=46:edl-news&Itemid=123


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 10, 2011)

Fingers said:


> This has to be seen to be believed. The EDL's John 'Pigman' Gillman is back




Fuckinell, everyone in that video is wearing a mask. Most of them are wearing pig masks but there's also a couple of gruesome Lords of the rings fans in there, too. Shockin...Makes the hollywood make up departments look like amateurs.

It's the fuckin Orc Division...


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## Arthur2 (Jul 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> And a summary of yesterday's events
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php?...711-failed-demos&catid=46:edl-news&Itemid=123



Not exactly true those reports, only 60, see for your self, turn the sound off if you don't like the music,



There was 1 arrest on the demo and 2 after at the railway station for being drunk.

Arthur.


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## Ranbay (Jul 11, 2011)

How many terrorists did you catch on Saturday Arthur?


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## TopCat (Jul 11, 2011)

Fingers said:


> This has to be seen to be believed. The EDL's John 'Pigman' Gillman is back




I love the Vince lookalikey...


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## Arthur2 (Jul 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> How many terrorists did you catch on Saturday Arthur?



None. Just want the sleazy politicians to do their job for once, instead of feathering their own nest and getting into bed with the likes of Murdoch.

Arthur.


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## krink (Jul 11, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> None. Just want the sleazy politicians to do their job for once, instead of feathering their own nest and getting into bed with the likes of Murdoch.
> 
> Arthur.



getting pissed in Boro and wearing pig masks will surely do the trick then you fucking scab bastard.


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## Ranbay (Jul 11, 2011)

Well it's changed so much in 2 years already.....


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## malatesta32 (Jul 11, 2011)

good review here. only just come across these folk. 

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/09/07/11-failed-demos

the EDL spread themselves too thinly at thec weekend, fought with each other, got pissed up and nicked, said 'we aint going in no car park nor nuffinks, no surrender' and then ended up in a car park fully surrendered. what have they actually achieved really? what do they actually want and how are they going to realise this? how realistic are their goals? their political analysis amounts to calling muslims terrorists and all opposition 'smelly.' this is not exactly political critique is it.


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## Mr.Bishie (Jul 11, 2011)

They've achieved fuck all, & long may the infighting continue!


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## Red Storm (Jul 12, 2011)

NWI are planning to go to Manchester to counter a Stop Islamophobia demonstration on the 16th July. 

They did have a facebook event but I can't for the life of me find it 

75th Anniversary of the spanish civil war that day too.


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 12, 2011)

The video at this link shows recent racist attacks against asians on the London underground supposedly carried out by an EDL member and then uploaded to Youtube, of all places. 

It doesn't surprise me a bit that it has come to this as the whole EDL thing has been reminiscent of the peddled hatred and rise of confidence on the street of the NF towards the end of the 70's. 

This video represents the end result of what all the rascist retoric, that pervades every breathe of the EDL, has logically led to.


http://www.twitpic.com/5exbfg


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## The39thStep (Jul 12, 2011)

The Edl are nothing like the NF in the 70s


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## manny-p (Jul 12, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> The video at this link shows recent racist attacks against asians on the London underground supposedly carried out by an EDL member and then uploaded to Youtube, of all places.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me a bit that it has come to this as the whole EDL thing has been reminiscent of the peddled hatred and rise of confidence on the street of the NF towards the end of the 70's.
> 
> ...


 
These guys need sorted out. Quite shocking.


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## BlackArab (Jul 12, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> The video at this link shows recent racist attacks against asians on the London underground supposedly carried out by an EDL member and then uploaded to Youtube, of all places.
> 
> It doesn't surprise me a bit that it has come to this as the whole EDL thing has been reminiscent of the peddled hatred and rise of confidence on the street of the NF towards the end of the 70's.
> 
> ...



As others have commented on that link, how do we know who the attackers are, have they been caught or prosecuted?


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## Red Storm (Jul 12, 2011)

EDL in Manchester this Saturday 

http://manchesterafa.org/2011/07/12/edl-coming-to-manchester-this-saturday/


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## friedaweed (Jul 12, 2011)

Will be there


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## krink (Jul 13, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> As others have commented on that link, how do we know who the attackers are, have they been caught or prosecuted?


 
That's what I thought as you can't even tell what race of the attackers or tell when the attack took place or anything. However, on googling this very question, one of the links did say it was the edl lad who first uploaded the video to youtube. Again, not conclusive but it is a bit suspicious.


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## BlackArab (Jul 13, 2011)

krink said:


> That's what I thought as you can't even tell what race of the attackers or tell when the attack took place or anything. However, on googling this very question, one of the links did say it was the edl lad who first uploaded the video to youtube. Again, not conclusive but it is a bit suspicious.



I'm assuming this has been reported to the police by whoever said it was Cobz that uploaded it otherwise this video could provoke some pretty nasty retaliation and not just against the EDL.


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 13, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> The Edl are nothing like the NF in the 70s



They still have some way to go to reach the level of violence of the NF in the late 70's but I wouldn't say they are "nothing" like the NF in the 70's.

After all they are a fascist organization mobilizing a sector of white working class against immigrants and the left. The race hate they preach can only lead to physical attacks. 

The video, if it hadn't been filmed on a mobile, could easily be mistaken for  late 70's NF/BM Paki bashing...

What else do they need to do to be compared more accurately to the NF? 


Can you elaborate a bit more on the differences between EDL now and the NF in the 1970's?


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## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> After all they are a fascist organization mobilizing a sector of white working class against immigrants and the left.


 
they aren't a fascist organization. you make yourself look stupid saying that they are.

oh - and the nf were rather larger on the jews than the edl are. such an assiduous observer as yourself should have noticed that.


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> they aren't a fascist organization. you make yourself look stupid saying that they are.
> 
> oh - and the nf were rather larger on the jews than the edl are. such an assiduous observer as yourself should have noticed that.



You're so clever Pickman. I didn't know they had to be against jews to qualify to be fascists. Any other scapegoat like muslims doesn't count then?

I believe italian fascism in the 20's had anti-semitism quite low on it's list. Does that disqualify them for the title of fascist, too?

The EDL appear to me to bear the essence of a classic fascist movement, by which I mean the earlier root groups like the Freikorps not the fully blown mature uniformed party machine of the 30's mold.

The have learned, quite like the BNP or maybe even from them, to avoid certain unsavoury language to try to disguise themselves in order to march and grow. They can't take on a multicultural society head on so they are going round it, attacking where they feel they can. It makes the Pastor Niemuller verse ring true.

Now if they aren't a fascist movement, then what the hell are they Pickman? How would you define them?


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## treelover (Jul 14, 2011)

'EDL in Manchester this Saturday 

http://manchesterafa.org/2011/07/12/...this-saturday/'


Oops, the luvvies will be upset , its the Manchester International Arts Festival, i went last week, sponsored by the guardian, with a pavillion in albert square


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## treelover (Jul 14, 2011)

There is a meeting organised by the Quillam Foundation which is hosting former EDL members who speak about the organisation, etc, maybe people on here could go along...


though what you could learn in a meeting just over one hour long is debatable..

http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/component/content/article/39-events/832


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## jannerboyuk (Jul 14, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> good review here. only just come across these folk.
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/09/07/11-failed-demos
> 
> the EDL spread themselves too thinly at thec weekend, fought with each other, got pissed up and nicked, said 'we aint going in no car park nor nuffinks, no surrender' and then ended up in a car park fully surrendered. what have they actually achieved really? what do they actually want and how are they going to realise this? how realistic are their goals? their political analysis amounts to calling muslims terrorists and all opposition 'smelly.' this is not exactly political critique is it.


 Thats not a bad site but they need to keep things a bit more accurate. A quick glance at the pics much more than 50 people at the plymouth edl march. 150-200 easily. That is of course piss all from a city of 250,000 which i kinda think as a likely breeding ground for the edl cunts, but still lets not tell ourselves nice little stories.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> You're so clever Pickman. I didn't know they had to be against jews to qualify to be fascists. Any other scapegoat like muslims doesn't count then?
> 
> I believe italian fascism in the 20's had anti-semitism quite low on it's list. Does that disqualify them for the title of fascist, too?
> 
> ...


 how? with some intelligence and not slavishly following tripe the swp or their ilk come out with. they bear somewhat more resemblence to the old church and king mobs than they do to the national front. anyone who knows anything about the nf in the 70s knows that they emerged from the league of empire loyalists, the greater britain movement and the old british national party: that is, a load of out and out fascists if not national socialists. people who have been observing the edl will have noticed that there is a fair degree of involvement from current and former members of groups like the nf and bnp, but also a larger proportion who do not appear to have given politics much thought. they are a nationalist organisation, they are a racist organisation, but adding the two together and coming up with a fascist organisation is a miscalculation. 

they bear scant resemblence to the old freikorps, not being composed of former soldiers who act in a disciplined form. indeed, the divisions within the edl (ie splits rather than organisational subgroups) make them particularly ill-disciplined. 

as for your little gibe about 'italian fascism in the 20's [sic]', you weren't talking about italian fascism in the post to which i responded. you were instead referring to the nf, and the nf were virulently anti-semitic. 

so, in summary, the edl are attractive to fascists and national socialists, some of whom have played important parts within the organisation; but it is not a fascist organisation despite being overall racist and nationalist.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 14, 2011)

They are certainly proto-fascist, or at least heading in that direction IMO, with their attacks on left wing stalls, anti-union rhetoric and appeals to national unity.


----------



## Corax (Jul 14, 2011)

jannerboyuk said:


> a city of 250,000 which i kinda think as a likely breeding ground for the edl cunts


Given your username I'd guess you know of what you speak.  Also sadly fits with the short time I spent in Devonport (before they tarted it up and shipped the locals out).


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## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> They are certainly proto-fascist, or at least heading in that direction IMO, with their attacks on left wing stalls, anti-union rhetoric and appeals to national unity.


i would say, as whitechapel anarchist have done, that they're more reminiscent of the church and king mobs than something like the buf or nf. as for national unity, the edl are extremely divided, what with the infidels and that plus recent arguments about money. one thing about the radical right (which is not a synonym for fascists) is that they disagree all the time.


----------



## past caring (Jul 14, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> They are certainly proto-fascist, or at least heading in that direction IMO, with their attacks on left wing stalls, anti-union rhetoric and appeals to national unity.



To be "heading in that direction" would require personnel capable of taking them there - something that's clearly lacking. There's no wit, there's no ambition, there's no campaigning, there's no fucking _plan_ - nothing beyond "turn up here on Saturday and be surrounded by plod. Again."


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## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2011)

past caring said:


> To be "heading in that direction" would require personnel capable of taking them there - something that's clearly lacking. There's no wit, there's no ambition, there's no campaigning, there's no fucking _plan_ - nothing beyond "turn up here on Saturday and be surrounded by plod. Again."


 ^^ this


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## past caring (Jul 14, 2011)

And to bang on again on the point - it is precisely the lack of politics, the lack of ambition, the lack of organisational nous, the lack of any plan, the fact that they cannot even _begin_ to match the organisational capabilities of the the old NF or the present BNP that will keep them precisely where they are* - this leaves them incapable of organising anything that involves more than a handful without plastering it all over facebook, which in turn means they're always surrounded by plod, which means everything they organise is always a failure - even on their own terms.

*at best - the much more likely scenario is ever growing frustration, ever growing splits and departures and ever dwindling numbers.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> They still have some way to go to reach the level of violence of the NF in the late 70's but I wouldn't say they are "nothing" like the NF in the 70's.
> 
> After all they are a fascist organization mobilizing a sector of white working class against immigrants and the left. The race hate they preach can only lead to physical attacks.



Even if you take the most widely-deployed definition of fascism, they're not fascists, but rather old-fashioned racists and racialists.

The argument about mobilising a sector of the white working class is accurate as far as it goes, but it misses out the fact that *that* is what they're *attempting* to do, and mostly failing. The NF had more purchase back in the '70s (predominantly among the lower middle class) because the alien-ness of black and Asian culture to white culture was greater then, so it was easier for them to get away with simplistic arguments.



> The video, if it hadn't been filmed on a mobile, could easily be mistaken for  late 70's NF/BM Paki bashing...
> 
> What else do they need to do to be compared more accurately to the NF?



A political programme? An engagement with electoral politics? A "leader" with half a brain?

Not that I'm saying Webster was smart, he wasn't, but he was cunning, which Yakmeat-Lemon isn't.



> Can you elaborate a bit more on the differences between EDL now and the NF in the 1970's?


 
See above.


----------



## Corax (Jul 14, 2011)

past caring said:


> And to bang on again on the point - it is precisely the lack of politics, the lack of ambition, the lack of organisational nous, the lack of any plan, the fact that they cannot even _begin_ to match the organisational capabilities of the the old NF or the present BNP that will keep them precisely where they are* - this leaves them incapable of organising anything that involves more than a handful without plastering it all over facebook, which in turn means they're always surrounded by plod, which means everything they organise is always a failure - even on their own terms.
> 
> *at best - the much more likely scenario is ever growing frustration, ever growing splits and departures and ever dwindling numbers.


 
I don't disagree with that regarding the EDL in their present state.  Hypothetically though, does this not make them a tempting prospect for a more organised and ambitious individual or group - a ready-made army* to be plucked off the shelf by any fash with the nous and charisma to win their allegiance?

*exaggeration, but couldn't think of a better term off the cuff


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## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2011)

Who are 'them'? What can be bought? What's on the shelf?


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> You're so clever Pickman. I didn't know they had to be against jews to qualify to be fascists. Any other scapegoat like muslims doesn't count then?
> 
> I believe italian fascism in the 20's had anti-semitism quite low on it's list. Does that disqualify them for the title of fascist, too?



They had corporatism reasonably high on the list, though, whereas the EDL don't even have a cohesive political programme.



> The EDL appear to me to bear the essence of a classic fascist movement, by which I mean the earlier root groups like the Freikorps not the fully blown mature uniformed party machine of the 30's mold.



In other words, incoherent *volkische[/i] racists rather than fascists. So perhaps "proto-neo-fascists" would be a better description? 




			The have learned, quite like the BNP or maybe even from them, to avoid certain unsavoury language to try to disguise themselves in order to march and grow. They can't take on a multicultural society head on so they are going round it, attacking where they feel they can. It makes the Pastor Niemuller verse ring true.
		
Click to expand...


Nah, that's just taking the piss. They might evolve into an organisation who "go round" multiculturalism, but at the moment all they're doing is banging their heads against, specifically, their perception of a particular religion.




			Now if they aren't a fascist movement, then what the hell are they Pickman? How would you define them?
		
Click to expand...

 
Proto-Neo-Fascists or, as I like to call them, twats. *


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> I don't disagree with that regarding the EDL in their present state.  Hypothetically though, does this not make them a tempting prospect for a more organised and ambitious individual or group - a ready-made army* to be plucked off the shelf by any fash with the nous and charisma to win their allegiance?
> 
> *exaggeration, but couldn't think of a better term off the cuff


 
While I suspect that elements of the EDL might be amenable to being "rent-a-mobs" for the other grouplets whose names start with "English", or even possibly for the NF or BNP, I'm not so sure that such a tendency would find support with the (undoubtedly useless) leadership of the EDL, after they've spent so much time and effort trying to convince the more gullible that they're not racist.


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## Blagsta (Jul 14, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i would say, as whitechapel anarchist have done, that they're more reminiscent of the church and king mobs than something like the buf or nf. as for national unity, the edl are extremely divided, what with the infidels and that plus recent arguments about money. one thing about the radical right (which is not a synonym for fascists) is that they disagree all the time.


 
What were the church and king mobs?


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## Blagsta (Jul 14, 2011)

past caring said:


> To be "heading in that direction" would require personnel capable of taking them there - something that's clearly lacking. There's no wit, there's no ambition, there's no campaigning, there's no fucking _plan_ - nothing beyond "turn up here on Saturday and be surrounded by plod. Again."


 
fairynuff, but some of their rhetoric on the net appears to me to have the potential of becoming fascist


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## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> What were the church and king mobs?


 
You should know, they're from your area. (leaving pickman's model to fill in)


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## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> fairynuff, but some of their rhetoric on the net appears to me to have the potential of becoming fascist


 
As does a lot of pissed up- pub talk. With no follow though or even the basics of serious organisation (and given that its membership woulds never swallow it anyway). There's always groups of 30 plums you can take 5 years to get together to meet up to do fuck all.


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## Blagsta (Jul 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You should know, they're from your area. (leaving pickman's model to fill in)



History not my strong subject tbh!


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## Blagsta (Jul 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> As does a lot of pissed up- pub talk. With no follow though or even the basics of serious organisation (and given that its membership woulds never swallow it anyway). There's always groups of 30 plums you can take 5 years to get together to meet up to do fuck all.


 
true enough


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## Corax (Jul 14, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> While I suspect that elements of the EDL might be amenable to being "rent-a-mobs" for the other grouplets whose names start with "English", or even possibly for the NF or BNP, I'm not so sure that such a tendency would find support with the (undoubtedly useless) leadership of the EDL, after they've spent so much time and effort trying to convince the more gullible that they're not racist.


 
It's not so much the rent-a-mob idea I'm referring to, it's the potential for their (undoubtedly useless) leadership to be _replaced_ by an individual (or small group of individuals) who could wield the masses already engaged and connected more dangerously.


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## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> It's not so much the rent-a-mob idea I'm referring to, it's the potential for their (undoubtedly useless) leadership to be _replaced_ by an individual (or small group of individuals) who could wield the masses already engaged and connected more dangerously.


 
And go _ok, yes i'll do that_. Show some respect, not for their beliefs but what is going on and why.


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## past caring (Jul 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> It's not so much the rent-a-mob idea I'm referring to, it's the potential for their (undoubtedly useless) leadership to be _replaced_ by an individual (or small group of individuals) who could wield the masses already engaged and connected more dangerously.



Aside from the problem with this that butchers is referring to, there's the other side of the coin. If I were an individual (or a small group of individuals) looking to build a serious fascist organisation - and if I had the ambition, the plan (no small thing, this, the plan), the charisma, the nous, the organisational skills to start to build something meaningful, then from a standing start my first step would be to try to pull individuals around me who possessed similar qualities, the kind of people who could provide the requisite backbone for an organisation whether on a local or national level. The EDL would not be my first port of call.


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## Corax (Jul 14, 2011)

So you don't think there's the danger that they could be hijacked by someone with more dangerous potential?


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2011)

I was talking to someone the other week, I think he was from one of the anarchist orgs (might have been AFED or SolFed but not sure), who was saying they were much more like loyalists than fascists. He was saying that, like the EDL, the loyalist groups in England and Scotland were considered fertile recruiting ground for fascists and did, in their membership, contain a fair few NF and BM members, but were not, and were never likely to become, fascist groups in and of themselves. I know next to nothing about loyalism so can't say whether he was talking bollocks but thought I'd put it out there since the nature of the EDL is being discussed.

(Sorry about the horrible grammar, bit short of time atm)


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## FreddyB (Jul 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> So you don't think there's the danger that they could be hijacked by someone with more dangerous potential?


 
Hijack what? They barely exist as an organisation. You could take over, blag your way into being an admin of their facebook page


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> So you don't think there's the danger that they could be hijacked by someone with more dangerous potential?


 
There's always a "danger". For example, although other rightist organisations kept going during the days of the BUF, the BUF were able to siphon off parts of their membership, and to attract people new to rightism.

The EDL aren't the BUF, though, and Yakmeat-Lemon isn't Oswald Mosley. In fact although most of the hard-right ideologues struggle manfully, none of them have the charisma of a tortoise, let alone of a Mosley.


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## audiotech (Jul 14, 2011)

A new fashion accessory for those who enjoy ''chanting in pubs around town' - a 'knuckleduster as a belt buckle'.

http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/local/man_caught_with_weapon_at_edl_march_1_3576278


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## elfman (Jul 14, 2011)

I've been talking to some EDL members, mainly younger ones and to say these people are fascists is pretty far off the mark really. To be honest, even though I have disagreements with those I've spoken to, I didn't dislike them and I have mates who could quite easily be doing what they're doing. Yes the group without a doubt has fascist elements but its such a mixed bunch. Some have come in because they want a bit of a buzz (football firm types), some racist, some islamaphobic, some just following what their mates are doing, some genuinely sticking to the principles off what EDL attempts to portray itself out. Obviously a lot will fit into a few of these groups. They're definitely going to split more and many will get bored and stop being active. But this could mean that some of those still wanting to be active and getting frustrated will take more extreme action, such as those seen in that horrible video.


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## Ranbay (Jul 14, 2011)

.......and the ones that set fire to mosques etc


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> What were the church and king mobs?


 
eighteenth century loyalist phenomenon, frequently supported by local gentry and magistrates, where people like religious nonconformists or (after the french revolution, people who sympathised with the revolution) would be attacked or have their homes attacked by mobs espousing loyalty to church and king.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 15, 2011)

Corax said:


> So you don't think there's the danger that they could be hijacked by someone with more dangerous potential?



No, because the vast majority of jokers involved in this are not really into demanding and time consuming, not to mention esoteric politics. Meeting up on a Saturday getting pissed and maybe getting a chance to chant and even if they're lucky beat a few pakis up is about the limit of their ambitions. 

That's not to say they don't have politics - they do - but they're not a priority, and they're not fascist, more amorphous cap doffing racist Toryism, adopting fascist politics and discipline from that would be a massive step. I would also argue they're now clearly passed their best, and not an appealing prospect for any wannabe furhrer.


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## Blagsta (Jul 15, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> eighteenth century loyalist phenomenon, frequently supported by local gentry and magistrates, where people like religious nonconformists or (after the french revolution, people who sympathised with the revolution) would be attacked or have their homes attacked by mobs espousing loyalty to church and king.


 
thanks


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## gawkrodger (Jul 15, 2011)

@ Blagsta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestley_Riots

There's actually  some reasonable bits in the Brum Museum and it's Jewellry Quarter affiliate.

You could always combine it with the Home of Metal exhibition on at the mo!


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## Blagsta (Jul 15, 2011)

Cheers! I keep meaning to get to home of metal, but things are a bit hectic at mo, with new baby.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2011)

it is erroneous to call EDL fascist - there are fascists amongst them obviously, as is well documented - but they do act in a fascist manner, ie, initmidation on the streets, fetishisation of violence, focussing on minority groups, nationalism. there are so many schisms now - MFE, SIOE, NWI, NEI, ENA, EDL proper, EDL splinter factions developing in the midlands - that it is difficult to pin them down politically. this has caused splits over tactics and ideology. a lot hate caxley-trousers' 'multicultural racism' with guramit and the jewish lot and a lot on the forums are NOT overtly racist but they are being led by those who are. Caxley-Trousers was BNP! what is interesting is the recent ding dong over roberta 'no' moore and caxley's vehement desire to carry on supporting israel. this is because he is bankrolled by bizarro zionist alan lake. they do not have an official membership, no manifesto or bulletin and little to say what they are for, only what they are against, ie, 'pakis.' this has led to confusion on all sides.


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## trevhagl (Jul 15, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> They are certainly proto-fascist, or at least heading in that direction IMO, with their attacks on left wing stalls, anti-union rhetoric and appeals to national unity.


 
Pickmans would probably come up with a long winded spin off of democracy to describe that!


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## MellySingsDoom (Jul 15, 2011)

malatesta32 - see also the "EDL LGBT Division", whose modus operandi seems to be "if you're white, gay's alright, if you're brown (etc), gays should go down" - see their "All Muslims are paedophiles who like to (homophobic term for anal sex) little boys" spiel - sounding mightily familiar to the "all gays are paedophiles" spiel I've heard from certain quarters over the years.  This specific "division" even claimed that the lyrics for Siouxsie and the Banshees' "Arabian Knights" were anti-Muslim, and therefore "patriotic"!


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## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> malatesta32 - see also the "EDL LGBT Division", whose modus operandi seems to be "if you're white, gay's alright, if you're brown (etc), gays should go down" - see their "All Muslims are paedophiles who like to (homophobic term for anal sex) little boys" spiel - sounding mightily familiar to the "all gays are paedophiles" spiel I've heard from certain quarters over the years.  This specific "division" even claimed that the lyrics for Siouxsie and the Banshees' "Arabian Knights" were anti-Muslim, and therefore "patriotic"!



mel, we have written about the hypocricy and homophobia of the far right here:
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/gay-nazis-and-deviants-surely-not/
and the EDL are no different. the LGBT division is a paper division like the jewish one and it is unlikely that the muslamic raygun tendency are likely to sympathise. there was the incident when an EDL LGBT member got battered by members of the EDL's 'intolerance division' 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/11/15/edl-mac-same-thing/
not that homophobic violence is praiseworthy but it shows how ideologically divided, confused and weak the EDL are. 
as for the banshees - yuk!


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## Arthur2 (Jul 15, 2011)

So many divergent opinions on what the EDL are, most of it quite wrong, you can't pin us down with a label because there is no label that fits.
That's because we are new, you'll find people from the centre through to the right, even some lefties and it's because of this diversity that we argue among our selves and I think that's a healthy thing to do. There's no party line that we all have to follow because most of us couldn't care less about politics or political parties, they have all betrayed us.

As for Ms Moore, she tried to link us to a very extreme group, ie, Victor Vancier and we are not having it, most of us do not believe that planting bombs is the way you act in a democratic England, then there is her foul mouthed rantings, I can't stand people who instead of debating, scream abuse, especially when they are meant to be one of your own.

You call us fascists but how can we be when we have no desire for power or control, we simply want our voices to be heard and you must admit that we are now a household name and we are forcing politicians to listen and the debate on Islamofascism is much more out in the open now and into mainline politics. We have forced the establishment to take notice.
We will continue to kick our way into the headlines until they do something about our concerns.

You say we are disorganised, but that is in a way, a good thing because their are no heads to chop off, there's nothing they can ban, except maybe a name. The state cannot close us down and that scares them, they've tried their lock us in a car park tactics and we have shown them that we can do flash demos when ever and where ever we want and co-operation is at an end.
We've tried to play by the rules and they took the piss so now let's see what they do.

Arthur.


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## MellySingsDoom (Jul 15, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You say we are disorganised, but that is in a way, a good thing because their are no heads to chop off, there's nothing they can ban, except maybe a name. The state cannot close us down and that scares them, t*hey've tried their lock us in a car park tactics and we have shown them that we can do flash demos when ever and where ever we want and co-operation is at an end*.
> We've tried to play by the rules and they took the piss so now let's see what they do.
> 
> Arthur.



This'll be the same EDL who tried some flash demos (some very piss-poorly attended too), and in one case, were, uh, kettled in a car park?

Must try harder, Arfur.  1/10.  A week's detention for you, and you're on report again.


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## MellySingsDoom (Jul 15, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> mel, we have written about the hypocricy and homophobia of the far right here:
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/gay-nazis-and-deviants-surely-not/
> and the EDL are no different. the LGBT division is a paper division like the jewish one and it is unlikely that the muslamic raygun tendency are likely to sympathise. there was the incident when an EDL LGBT member got battered by members of the EDL's 'intolerance division'
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/11/15/edl-mac-same-thing/
> ...


 
Cheers for that, there - will check out the links when I get a free moment today


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## FreddyB (Jul 15, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> .........
> We've tried to play by the rules and they took the piss so now let's see what they do.
> 
> Arthur.



Isn't it obvious to you what they will do?


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## BlackArab (Jul 15, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> History not my strong subject tbh!



It is mine! 


_Church and king
Another loyalist response to radical extremism was the Church and King mobs. These began in Birmingham in July 1791, when reformers celebrating the fall of the Bastille were attacked in their meeting houses. With the connivance of local magistrates, the chemist Dr Joseph Priestley was targeted by a crowd; when the riot got out of hand, it had to be put down by cavalry. 

In 1790, Manchester churchmen had formed a Church and King dining club. In reply, a Constitutional Society, founded by cotton manufacturer Thomas Walker, held a Bastille dinner in 1791. Three years later, Walker was accused of conspiracy but the case collapsed. Elsewhere, groups such as the Loyal True Blues clashed with radicals. _

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/napoleon/ideas1.html#chu


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## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> So many divergent opinions on what the EDL are, most of it quite wrong, you can't pin us down with a label because there is no label that fits.
> That's because we are new, you'll find people from the centre through to the right, even some lefties and it's because of this diversity that we argue among our selves and I think that's a healthy thing to do. There's no party line that we all have to follow because most of us couldn't care less about politics or political parties, they have all betrayed us.
> 
> As for Ms Moore, she tried to link us to a very extreme group, ie, Victor Vancier and we are not having it, most of us do not believe that planting bombs is the way you act in a democratic England, then there is her foul mouthed rantings, I can't stand people who instead of debating, scream abuse, especially when they are meant to be one of your own.
> ...


 
what about burning mosques, 'allah is pedo' and attacking people on the tubes then arthur. or trevor.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2011)

gawkrodger said:


> @ Blagsta
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priestley_Riots
> 
> ...


 
yes: but that ignores the church and king mobs of the early 18th century.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> It is mine!
> 
> 
> _Church and king
> ...


 but church and king mobs did not start in the 1790s - see, for example, http://www.colsal.org.uk/sites/u3alhg/MontonUnitarianChurch.asp



> All was not smooth sailing and there was trouble in 1715 when “Church and King Mob” attacked the building and caused severe damage. Feelings for the old pretender James Francis Edward Stuart son of deposed James II ran high in the Manchester district and on his birthday June 10th a mob led by a blacksmith Tom Sydall attacked the houses of several dissenters in Manchester and then attacked Cross Street Chapel. The following day they marched to Monton where they attacked the chapel, burning the pews, pulpit and throwing the chapel bell in a pond.


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## BlackArab (Jul 15, 2011)

I hadn't realised that two other replys had beaten me to it but good reading anyway!


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> So many divergent opinions on what the EDL are, most of it quite wrong, you can't pin us down with a label because there is no label that fits.
> That's because we are new, you'll find people from the centre through to the right, even some lefties and it's because of this diversity that we argue among our selves and I think that's a healthy thing to do. There's no party line that we all have to follow because most of us couldn't care less about politics or political parties, they have all betrayed us.
> 
> As for Ms Moore, she tried to link us to a very extreme group, ie, Victor Vancier and we are not having it, most of us do not believe that planting bombs is the way you act in a democratic England, then there is her foul mouthed rantings, I can't stand people who instead of debating, scream abuse, especially when they are meant to be one of your own.
> ...


it would be tempting to see the edl as something new, particularly for people involved in it. but there are a lot of things which aren't particularly original. for example, attacking asian people as in barking a few weeks back - or 'paki-bashing' as it used to be known - goes back to at least the 1970s. having a pop at immigrants goes back to at least the evil may day of 1517 - or there's the pogrom of jews at york in about the thirteenth century. religious disturbances again are nothing new. but i'd repeat what i said above, which is that the edl seem to me to be descendants of 'church and king' mobs. this may all be new to you but it's not as though people haven't done similar things to what you've done in the dim and distant - and indeed quite recent - past.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 15, 2011)

audiotech said:


> A new fashion accessory for those who enjoy ''chanting in pubs around town' - a 'knuckleduster as a belt buckle'.
> 
> http://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/local/man_caught_with_weapon_at_edl_march_1_3576278


 
Who do they think they are, "Dodgy Dave" Courtney?


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 15, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> but church and king mobs did not start in the 1790s - see, for example, http://www.colsal.org.uk/sites/u3alhg/MontonUnitarianChurch.asp



That's interesting as most historians date it from the 1790s. EP Thompson's take from _The making of the English working class_: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...EwBw#v=onepage&q=church and king mobs&f=false

PM can you point me in the direction of more Church & King stuff from the early 18th century please.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 15, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> So many divergent opinions on what the EDL are, most of it quite wrong, you can't pin us down with a label because there is no label that fits.


Oh, I don't know, I've always thought "cowardly twats" fits the EDL perfectly.



> That's because we are new, you'll find people from the centre through to the right, even some lefties and it's because of this diversity that we argue among our selves and I think that's a healthy thing to do. There's no party line that we all have to follow because most of us couldn't care less about politics or political parties, they have all betrayed us.



You're not new, you just don't have much of a clue about British history, despite your supposed "patriotism".



> As for Ms Moore, she tried to link us to a very extreme group, ie, Victor Vancier and we are not having it, most of us do not believe that planting bombs is the way you act in a democratic England, then there is her foul mouthed rantings, I can't stand people who instead of debating, scream abuse, especially when they are meant to be one of your own.
> 
> You call us fascists but how can we be when we have no desire for power or control, we simply want our voices to be heard and you must admit that we are now a household name and we are forcing politicians to listen and the debate on Islamofascism is much more out in the open now and into mainline politics. We have forced the establishment to take notice.



Dickhead. Most of us have stated *very clearly* (and even though we despise you) that you're NOT fascists.



> We will continue to kick our way into the headlines until they do something about our concerns.



Surely you mean "we'll continue to shout threats from behind a screen of coppers"? Like I said, "cowardly twats".



> You say we are disorganised, but that is in a way, a good thing because their are no heads to chop off, there's nothing they can ban, except maybe a name. The state cannot close us down and that scares them, they've tried their lock us in a car park tactics and we have shown them that we can do flash demos when ever and where ever we want and co-operation is at an end.
> We've tried to play by the rules and they took the piss so now let's see what they do.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Your self-importance is amusing. Almost as amusing as listening to Yakmeat-Lemon bleating about being victimised.

"They" will crush you as soon as you become an inconvenience, whether the "they" is the hard-right or the state. You're useful idiots, what's known as a stalking horse.


----------



## CyberRose (Jul 15, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Surely you mean "we'll continue to shout threats from behind a screen of coppers"? Like I said, "cowardly twats".


_That_ works both ways! And both sides will fill their websites and message boards with declarations of "victory" when in actual fact the police win every time (winning the praises of the actual communities the left claim to be 'protecting')


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> That's interesting as most historians date it from the 1790s. EP Thompson's take from _The making of the English working class_: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...EwBw#v=onepage&q=church and king mobs&f=false
> 
> PM can you point me in the direction of more Church & King stuff from the early 18th century please.


i'd suggest 'the right to riot: aspects of the london high church riots, 1710-1723' by james leonard fitts (phd thesis, ucla 1971), which i read many years ago. more accessible and easier to find material may appear in violent london, but it's a while since i looked at that and it's not really all that good on a lot of things.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2011)

CyberRose said:


> _That_ works both ways! And both sides will fill their websites and message boards with declarations of "victory" when in actual fact the police win every time (winning the praises of the actual communities the left claim to be 'protecting')


 
communities or community leaders?


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 15, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i'd suggest 'the right to riot: aspects of the london high church riots, 1710-1723' by james leonard fitts (phd thesis, ucla 1971), which i read many years ago. more accessible and easier to find material may appear in violent london, but it's a while since i looked at that and it's not really all that good on a lot of things.



cheers, will check them out


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> communities or community leaders?


 
yeah well put! the EDL bus in loads of people and the 'opposition' - like we had in cambridge last week - are local. the EDL attack local antifascist meetings, stalls etc. the EDL face opposition because local folk do not like a bunch of pissed up hooligans coming from far and wide claiming to represent them, marching through their towns and causing mass irritation (like last week in halifax!). check any images from the EDL demos. their divisional hoodies  identify this, so thanks for that. i'm sure plod feels the same! few on the EDL demos are actually from the town - rochdale, brighton etc all had people bussed in from miles away as local EDL support was so weak.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> cheers, will check them out


had another look at violent london just now and although mentioned in passing, it's written by a literature scholar who has managed to leave a lot of things out. it's ok as an overview, but it's by no means the work he should have written.

charles tilly's 'popular contention in great britain, 1758-1834' is better in many ways for the latter half of the eighteenth century. hibbert's 'king mob' is *the* book on the gordon riots, although linebaugh's 'london hanged' is also decent. parts of shoemaker's 'the london mob' are also not without interest.


----------



## treelover (Jul 15, 2011)

'Church and king
 Another loyalist response to radical extremism was the Church and King mobs. These began in Birmingham in July 1791, when reformers celebrating the fall of the Bastille were attacked in their meeting houses. With the connivance of local magistrates, the chemist Dr Joseph Priestley was targeted by a crowd; when the riot got out of hand, it had to be put down by cavalry.' 

I think the notion of the EDL being similar to Loyalist groups and the CAK mobs particularly  is a good analysis, much better than 'the fash' You could also include the gangs that attacked pacifists, etc in WW1. Their future trajectory would suggest they will increasingly attack leftists, T.Unionists, liberal church people, etc as 'traitors'


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You call us fascists but how can we be when we have no desire for power or control, we simply want our voices to be heard and you must admit that we are now a household name and we are forcing politicians to listen and the debate on Islamofascism is much more out in the open now and into mainline politics. We have forced the establishment to take notice.
> We will continue to kick our way into the headlines until they do something about our concerns.


 
So what you're saying is that through intimidation, violence and fearmongering you've helped dictate the political agenda? How very un-fascist of you.


----------



## albionism (Jul 16, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> malatesta32 - see also the "EDL LGBT Division", whose modus operandi seems to be "if you're white, gay's alright, if you're brown (etc), gays should go down" - see their "All Muslims are paedophiles who like to (homophobic term for anal sex) little boys" spiel - sounding mightily familiar to the "all gays are paedophiles" spiel I've heard from certain quarters over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I wonder what they make of The Cure's "Killing An Arab"!


----------



## grogwilton (Jul 16, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah well put! the EDL bus in loads of people and the 'opposition' - like we had in cambridge last week - are local. the EDL attack local antifascist meetings, stalls etc. the EDL face opposition because local folk do not like a bunch of pissed up hooligans coming from far and wide claiming to represent them, marching through their towns and causing mass irritation (like last week in halifax!). check any images from the EDL demos. their divisional hoodies  identify this, so thanks for that. i'm sure plod feels the same! few on the EDL demos are actually from the town - rochdale, brighton etc all had people bussed in from miles away as local EDL support was so weak.


 
at their demo in Reading they had barely 300, despite bringing people from plymouth through to kent and essex. Even their stall two weeks before had mostly surrey division on it.


----------



## kmarxs&sparks (Jul 16, 2011)

I haven't read the thread all the way though so don't shout at me if it's already been said but...

I keep hearing rumours the EDL are tagging on to other groups. I heard something about them trying to march with a gay pride thing. 
Unsure of the truth but it sounds like their tactics. May be worth a look to keep the nasty bastards in check.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 16, 2011)

kmarxs&sparks said:


> I haven't read the thread all the way though so don't shout at me if it's already been said but...
> 
> I keep hearing rumours the EDL are tagging on to other groups. I heard something about them trying to march with a gay pride thing.
> Unsure of the truth but it sounds like their tactics. May be worth a look to keep the nasty bastards in check.


 
There was to be a Gay Pride march in East London, but said march was canned when it was discovered that one of the people organising it was from the EDL LGBT "division", which pissed many people involved off.  Said march was to take place in Tower Hamlets too...

e2a:  The march was going to take place in Whitechapel in TH to be specific.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2011)




----------



## audiotech (Jul 16, 2011)

"An English Defence League supporter who clashed with Asian men after a protest march cannot carry out his community work as part of a multi-ethnic group, a court heard."

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/EDL-man-will-do-community-order-alone-15072011.htm


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2011)

albionism said:


> I wonder what they make of The Cure's "Killing An Arab"!


 
didn't that get the nf down to a cure gig?


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2011)

audiotech said:


> "An English Defence League supporter who clashed with Asian men after a protest march cannot carry out his community work as part of a multi-ethnic group, a court heard."
> 
> http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Home/EDL-man-will-do-community-order-alone-15072011.htm


 


> Magistrates requested a report on whether Hopkins would be suitable for community work and the court probation officer said that although he was suitable, the nature of the offence meant he could not take part in the multi-cultural work teams and would have to go on an individual placement.



I don't understand the reasoning there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2011)

Corax said:


> I don't understand the reasoning there.


 
he's a racist, therefore he can't work with people from another ethnicity, therefore he has to go on individual placement. might be something his lawyers argued for so he could have a dossier time.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 16, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> didn't that get the nf down to a cure gig?


 
Spot on, there.  If I recall correctly, an NF-er was present at a Cure gig at the Nashville Rooms, and went to speak to drummer Lol Tolhurst after the gig.  NF bloke enthused how "Killing An Arab" was a great song, and asked whether the Cure be interested in what the NF were up to.  "Pleasantries" were then exchanged between Tolhurst and NF bloke, leading to a swift exit by Mr NF, and Tolhurst quickly let the others know what the hell happened.


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> he's a racist, therefore he can't work with people from another ethnicity.


That's the bit I don't get.  Surely the system shouldn't be accommodating his prejudices?


----------



## treelover (Jul 17, 2011)

Isn't it just as likely that the authorities are worried he may get beaten up by the other 'prisoners' for what he did


----------



## kmarxs&sparks (Jul 17, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> the muslamic raygun tendency !


 
I've seen an EDL moron on youtube going on about that one. It's one of my all time favourite clips.
He's so thick I'm amazed he remembers to breath.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 17, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> he's a racist, therefore he can't work with people from another ethnicity, therefore he has to go on individual placement. might be something his lawyers argued for so he could have a dossier time.


 
Is  the point re providing a service in which other offenders aren't subject to discriminatory behaviour or for his own comfort? I would have him in the 'multi cultural'  group as after all he lives in a 'multi cultural' society


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 17, 2011)

treelover said:


> Isn't it just as likely that the authorities are worried he may get beaten up by the other 'prisoners' for what he did


 
In which case he should be put in a "multicultural" group. Might teach him that there are consequences to acting like a complete cunt.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 17, 2011)

kmarxs&sparks said:


> I've seen an EDL moron on youtube going on about that one. It's one of my all time favourite clips.
> He's so thick I'm amazed he remembers to breath.


 
Did you realise he was actually saying rape gangs not rayguns? I guess him being drunk and northern seems to have fooled most people.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 17, 2011)

after all the usual blether this week the EDL had another case of being spread too thinly at the weekend. they had about 150 in pompey trudging round in rain with soggy trainers and a dampened espirit de corps. they claimed they tried to tear into UAF but were prevented by plod. cripes! in manchester, plod had them well checked. a bunch were hassled before theyd even left bolton. manchester 'dibble'  were all over them and they were dispersed from the centre. they had advertised on facebook all week of course so they ended up skulking in a few boozers before nicking off home for a cup of tea and a bun. ah! 
http://ukfd.org/topic/8885370/1/
a few had a ding dong in trafalgar square but not sure what that was about. any info? as usual they will talk this up as a massive victory but it was literally a damp squib. they need the media attention for their ego boosts but it seems unless they pull off something big (instead of pulling themselves off over tommy) they dont get it. poor dears!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 17, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Did you realise he was actually saying rape gangs not rayguns? I guess him being drunk and northern seems to have fooled most people.


 
BA, he was not only drunk but incoherent and clueless as to why he was there - halal pork, iraqi law? - cripes! most people on most demos have an understanding of the issues they are demonstrating about but daft lad did not. what it did was show the EDL is more like a terrace fashion whose demos will suffer once footie season starts.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 17, 2011)

Poor sod, just because he is inarticulate, does that mean he shouldn't have a voice. Also it should be noted that this comes from Press TV, an Iranian government station, how many murders etc have they covered up, it's, in my view, as bad as any of Hitlers propaganda machine.
I'm surprised you even give it the time of day, all those students who got rid of the Shah, now all dead, hanged, beaten and tortured.
The crime of this guy is that he is a drunken, inarticulate working class bloke, so I don't think Press TV have any moral ground to stand on here.

Arthur.


----------



## TheDave (Jul 17, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Poor sod, just because he is inarticulate, does that mean he shouldn't have a voice. Also it should be noted that this comes from Press TV, an Iranian government station, how many murders etc have they covered up, it's, in my view, as bad as any of Hitlers propaganda machine.
> I'm surprised you even give it the time of day, all those students who got rid of the Shah, now all dead, hanged, beaten and tortured.
> The crime of this guy is that he is a drunken, inarticulate working class bloke, so I don't think Press TV have any moral ground to stand on here.
> 
> Arthur.


 
No his crime is being a racist drunken, inarticulate working class bloke.


----------



## LLETSA (Jul 17, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Poor sod, just because he is inarticulate, does that mean he shouldn't have a voice. Also it should be noted that this comes from Press TV, an Iranian government station, how many murders etc have they covered up, it's, in my view, as bad as any of Hitlers propaganda machine.
> I'm surprised you even give it the time of day, all those students who got rid of the Shah, now all dead, hanged, beaten and tortured.
> The crime of this guy is that he is a drunken, inarticulate working class bloke, so I don't think Press TV have any moral ground to stand on here.
> 
> Arthur.





Those of us who are working class know, however, that it's perfectly possible to be working class (and drunken) and still be an ignorant prick.

It was a mostly working class uprising that, for good or ill, got rid of the Shah of Iran.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 17, 2011)

The crime of this guy is that he is a drunken, inarticulate working class bloke, so I don't think Press TV have any moral ground to stand on here.Arthur.[/QUOTE]

arthur, no one has said he has committed any crime. it was pointed out that he had no idea why he was there. halal pork? iraqi law? and just because people do not like you does not mean we like the people you oppose. this is extremely naive politics on your behalf. your thought process is thus: i hate muslimic extremists; antifascists hate me; therefore antifascists must like muslamic extremists. this is a poor syllogism indeed, false logic and naive politics in the extreme.


----------



## kmarxs&sparks (Jul 17, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Did you realise he was actually saying rape gangs not rayguns? I guess him being drunk and northern seems to have fooled most people.


 
I didn't be he's so fucking stupid it hardly matters.


----------



## LLETSA (Jul 17, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> The crime of this guy is that he is a drunken, inarticulate working class bloke, so I don't think Press TV have any moral ground to stand on here.Arthur.



arthur, no one has said he has committed any crime. it was pointed out that he had no idea why he was there. halal pork? iraqi law? and just because people do not like you does not mean we like the people you oppose. this is extremely naive politics on your behalf. your thought process is thus: i hate muslimic extremists; antifascists hate me; therefore antifascists must like muslamic extremists. this is a poor syllogism indeed, false logic and naive politics in the extreme.[/QUOTE]


----------



## LLETSA (Jul 17, 2011)

dp


----------



## audiotech (Jul 17, 2011)

The English Defence League, defending the land of the Angles, Germanic people who invaded after the Romans had left. The idea of England didn't exist during the pre-Roman Celtic times. Also, so far as I am aware, the Celts didn't arrive until the Iron Age (or perhaps the Bronze Age?), while there have been people in the British Isles since the Mesolithic age, several thousand years earlier. Any thoughts on this Arthur?


----------



## Corax (Jul 17, 2011)

I've been tempted to found the Beaker People Defence League.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 17, 2011)

I see the 'Beaker People' were:



> ....stocky newcomers, although few at first, seem to have quickly gotten the upper hand on their Neolithic landlords, becoming a sort of nouveau aristocracy.



http://www.britainexpress.com/History/Bronze_Age.htm

B.P, B.P, B.P, B.P.L


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 17, 2011)

I was in Manchester yesterday. I knew that the EDL would be complaining that the police have given them a hard time and to be fair the police we c*nts to them. They reminded me of a school yard fight with one of the fighters yelling hold me back when in reality he has little want for a fight. 

What did the EDL really expect? Turning up on coaches with UAF Hunting Club t shirts (someone told me that, I can't confirm it) and looking like they'd just shop lifted the whole of Cheetham Hill for Stone Island clothes. Plus advertising it all over facebook? Of course the police are going to kettle you in pubs and then ship you out. 

I'd say there were 100 EDL in Manchester yesterday. The vast majority were held in the Yates' on Portland Street and The Bank on Mosley Street. There was groups of up to a dozen young EDL kids, literally aged 11-14, looking like complete tits in clothes with Stone Island badges glued onto any surface big enough. 

The police also didn't allow anyone in the Srebrenica vigil apart from MPAC (who ever they are) and the UAF. We were told to leave or we'd be arrested to prevent a breach of the peace, someone asked if they had a democratic right to peaceful protest and the reply was "not if I say you don't" and a pair of handcuffs. He was latter let out on Oxford Road and told to stay away from the city centre. The EDL failed to attack the SWP stall too due to around 20 Irish Republicans and anti fascists being in front of it, although some SWP members weren't happy due to it effecting their sales. From what I gathered from the sound SWP members, the UAF hadn't actually backed the vigil like the MPAC said (which was the EDL's justification to come to Manchester) so I don't know if the PCS ever actually did.


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jul 17, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I was in Manchester yesterday. I knew that the EDL would be complaining that the police have given them a hard time and to be fair the police we c*nts to them. They reminded me of a school yard fight with one of the fighters yelling hold me back when in reality he has little want for a fight.
> 
> What did the EDL really expect? Turning up on coaches with UAF Hunting Club t shirts (someone told me that, I can't confirm it) and looking like they'd just shop lifted the whole of Cheetham Hill for Stone Island clothes. Plus advertising it all over facebook? Of course the police are going to kettle you in pubs and then ship you out.
> 
> ...



The EDL were confronted and engaged a number of times yesterday by the Gaughan Stagg Cumann of the 32csm and the Manchester AFA, starting at 12pm we made our presence felt. The Fash had numerous chances to start but did not avail.

The SWP made comment to us that they were glad when we arrived at their stall, so i question the validity of your post, they said that the couple of uniformed officers along with another few undercover officers mixing about didnt fill them with confidence with the number of fash walking through the city.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 17, 2011)

I should have said "some". The younger ones are all sound, they were pleased to see the 32csm. One of the older ones mistook the 32csm as EDL until a younger one corrected him. The one with the mega phone and another were whinging to each other about standing in front of the stall putting people off. 

I probably saw you there yesterday chara if you were with the 32 csm comrades.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 17, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> BA, he was not only drunk but incoherent and clueless as to why he was there - halal pork, iraqi law? - cripes! most people on most demos have an understanding of the issues they are demonstrating about but daft lad did not. what it did was show the EDL is more like a terrace fashion whose demos will suffer once footie season starts.



I know all of this just makes me laugh that most people focus on the one particular phrase when it is they not he who got it wrong. Oh and don't think the EDL will be affected by the football season, people were the same thing last year as well. I imagine some EDL are either on bans or priced out of modern football and these marches do a lot to recreate the old excitement. Being marched around town in escorts is hoping for a pop at the oppo is part and parcel of being a hooligan, quite rarely succeeds these days but it doesn't put people off.


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jul 17, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I should have said "some". The sound ones who I'm friends with were cool, particularly the younger ones. The one with the mega phone and another were whinging to each other.
> 
> I probably saw you there yesterday chara if you were with the 32 csm comrades.


 
Aye at one point folk were blocking the stall and the view of the stall from foot traffic, it wasnt ideal.
Look forward to seeing you all again


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Poor sod, just because he is inarticulate, does that mean he shouldn't have a voice. Also it should be noted that this comes from Press TV, an Iranian government station, how many murders etc have they covered up, it's, in my view, as bad as any of Hitlers propaganda machine.
> I'm surprised you even give it the time of day, all those students who got rid of the Shah, now all dead, hanged, beaten and tortured.
> The crime of this guy is that he is a drunken, inarticulate working class bloke, so I don't think Press TV have any moral ground to stand on here.
> 
> Arthur.


 could you give me an example of  press tv reporter being drunken and inarticulate?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2011)

Urban-Guerrilla said:


> Aye at one point folk were blocking the stall and the view of the stall from foot traffic, it wasnt ideal.


 i don't know, shielding mancunians from a swappie stall can't be all bad.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 17, 2011)

Red Storm & Urban Guerilla, it's makes me feel good knowing that there are people out their engaged in direct action again. Well done and good luck to you. Keep up the good work!


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jul 17, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Red Storm & Urban Guerilla, it's makes me feel good knowing that there are people out their engaged in direct action again. Well done and good luck to you. Keep up the good work!


 
Go raibh maith agat, long may it Continue.


----------



## Corax (Jul 17, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> I know all of this just makes me laugh that most people focus on the one particular phrase when it is they not he who got it wrong.


Agreed.  I found the ray guns 'hilarity' slightly embarrassing tbh.  Cheap lulz are cheap lulz, but pretending that it was actually what he said did no one any favours.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 17, 2011)

Urban-Guerrilla said:


> Go raibh maith agat, long may it Continue.



choinneáil ar an gcreideamh


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jul 17, 2011)

Has their forum on  e******d****league  .org gone?

Would like to read some of their accounts/reports from yesterday.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 17, 2011)

you might want to break that link, even if it is down at the moment.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2011)

anonymous took it down the other week, may still be down...?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> anonymous took it down the other week, may still be down...?


 
so i'm told


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2011)

http://www.isup.me/www.englishdefenceleague.org


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2011)

everyone should join this also 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Can-This-Genital-Wart-Get-More-Fans-Than-The-EDL-/248089495201877

well apart from Arthur


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 17, 2011)

I know this is hardly "news" (sorry all), but Roberta Moore has popped out cheerleading for the EDL LGBT "division" (I've seen her blatherings on FB on their page) - didn't she "retire" from all EDL involvment?  And why is Moore (who was previously very homophobic, judging by her EDL Jewish Division postings) suddenly cheerleading for the LGBT cause?


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 18, 2011)

Urban-Guerrilla said:


> Has their forum on  e******d****league  .org gone?
> 
> Would like to read some of their accounts/reports from yesterday.


 

If you visit the http://ukfd.org/index/ website there are a couple of threads on there about saturday. Mostly complaining about police tactics. 

Also they have flagged up this indymedia post: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/07/482388.html


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## Red Storm (Jul 18, 2011)

EDL types have two more trips planned for manchester in the coming months. 

23rd July - LGBT thing on Canal St. http://www.twitpic.com/5l2nzp plus there is a facebook event. 
27th Aug - Casuals United in manchester -- http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=245717575457004 set up by the Tameside EDL Division 'leader'.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 18, 2011)

^^^I know from very reliable chats etc that Canal St already suffers a large amount of influx of homophobic morons every weekend - what on earth do the EDL want to achieve there on the day..."Bash A Queer For Tommy"?


----------



## manny-p (Jul 18, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I should have said "some". The younger ones are all sound, they were pleased to see the 32csm. One of the older ones mistook the 32csm as EDL until a younger one corrected him. The one with the mega phone and another were whinging to each other about standing in front of the stall putting people off.
> 
> I probably saw you there yesterday chara if you were with the 32 csm comrades.


 
The 32csm comrades....I have serious reservations about their politics.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 18, 2011)

Urban-Guerrilla said:


> Has their forum on  e******d****league  .org gone?
> 
> Would like to read some of their accounts/reports from yesterday.



Found this: 

'While having some food and a drink we started to receive calls off people getting section 27’s, too many to be honest. So the youth lads went off and us 4 made our way to the demo area, on the way there we came across a mob (these were no students)	 of 20/30 lads all in black jackets (these had been mentioned earlier in a phone call) being spoken to by the police. As we passed I was drawn to the badge on the left arm of the jackets, 2 flags one an Irish tricolour and the number 32 in the middle, So why is this group in town to attend a demo organised by swp, uaf etc who claim to represent the British working class, yet will gladly stand along side people that support attacks on the British armed forces and its citizens. Lets not forget the IRA targeted Manchester twice in the 70's and twice in the 90's.. '


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 18, 2011)

I see Alarm are ramping things up a bit, bad move really, sounds like they are looking for trouble.

http://towerhamletsalarm.wordpress.com/

Arthur.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 18, 2011)

Yeah and the EDL are going to "peacefully" protest... they dont want any trouble....


----------



## mr steev (Jul 18, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I see Alarm are ramping things up a bit, bad move really, sounds like they are looking for trouble.
> 
> http://towerhamletsalarm.wordpress.com/
> 
> Arthur.



From EDL Facebook (info not a wall post) 


> The English Defence League will be taking our message into the heart of militant Islam within our own country on September 3rd.
> The *last two years of demonstrations could arguably have been dress rehearsals for this one*.
> For too long now this cancerous infestation has been allowed to spread & it is now time to help *stop the rot*, we urge all who love this country to attend.
> The time has come to show the world that *the Lion has now awoken*, we will no longer be silenced or kettled in by the government or its police.



... and who's ramping things up again Arthur?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 18, 2011)

On 15 July, Arthur2 said:



> We will continue to kick our way into the headlines until they do something about our concerns.



Will you "kick our way" into Tower Hamlets too, Arfur?  Is "ramping things up" only acceptable when your lot indulge in it?  Are you aware of the concept of hypocrisy, Arfur?


----------



## audiotech (Jul 18, 2011)

"Kick our way into the headlines"? Hmm, I've heard that before from the NF. I think it was former leader of the NF, Martin Webster, who originally coined the phrase?



> The NF had never really been interested in contesting elections for their own sake, preferring a more violent path. It believed it could rise to power if it could *“kick our way into the headlines”* through demonstrations and marches in an attempt to “control” the streets.



My emphasis.

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=316


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 18, 2011)

audiotech said:


> "Kick our way into the headlines"? Hmm, I've heard that before from the NF. I think it was former leader of the NF, Martin Webster, who originally coined the phrase?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yup.

Of course, what Greasy Martin actually meant is that he'd get his lads (he liked his lads, did Martin ) to do the kicking, while he waited a safe distance away. An "ideas man", Martin. In love with the idea of "political soldiers", as long as he's the senior officer, not the grunt.


----------



## robbo180265 (Jul 18, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I see Alarm are ramping things up a bit, bad move really, sounds like they are looking for trouble.
> 
> http://towerhamletsalarm.wordpress.com/
> 
> Arthur.



You really are quite deluded aren't you?


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jul 18, 2011)

Cheers for the links Red Storm..


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 18, 2011)

Arthur, you do realise that the EDL going to Tower Hamplets would be an absolute disaster for all concerned, right? If the EDL didn't get kettled by the old bill you'd get battered, and it would be a massive pain in the arse for everyone who lives there, with possible repercussions in terms of racial tensions. But then again that's what you want isn't it? You want your prophecies of religious war to become self-fulfilling. You rat's colostomy bag.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 18, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> a lot of protesters faces displayed there. perhaps some pixilation is in oerder?



I note, they've all been posted on Redwatch now. Arthur2 perhaps?


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I note, they've all been posted on Redwatch now.


 
As is Jon Gaunt apparently.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm more than happy to ban Arthur but I have to say that specific sending of the pictures to redwatch isn't necessarily him - I doubt they were only posted here and there will now be others following the thread anyway. (Though tbh it does illustrate one reason why we normally just kick them off.)


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2011)

I'd oppose banning people for holding abhorrent politics and prejudices.  I think it's counter-productive.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 18, 2011)

To be fair, and having encoutered Arthur before on various other boards, I don't reckon that sort of shit is his style.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 18, 2011)

We have a long running practice of banning people promoting racism and racist organisations, but in this case there seemed to be overwhelming interest in talking to him for some reason (as if you couldn't very easily go elsewhere). What concerns me is that, while Urban isn't a "safe space" in terms of being able to post things here which won't get out of the board - it's a public forum - some people might not realise that this thread is routinely read by EDL members.


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2011)

If he starts spouting racist abuse then fine, but he's not done that so far that I can seen.

I'm not that bothered either way tbh, but a banning just for being a racist prick (as opposed to _expressing_ his racist prickness) just plays into the hands of _they can't handle the truth _style propaganda.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 18, 2011)

There was one knobhead here not too long ago going on about shooting "paki's". Clearly racist and a deserved ban. No?


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2011)

audiotech said:


> There was one knobhead here not too long ago going on about shooting "paki's". Clearly racist and a deserved ban. No?


 
I would think so, yes....

Is this some sort of trick question?


----------



## Auntyfa (Jul 18, 2011)

Hello
This thread is trotting along quite nicely 134 pages dedicated to watching the EDL


----------



## TheDave (Jul 18, 2011)

I think we got a live one.


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2011)

Auntyfa said:


> Hello
> This thread is trotting along quite nicely 134 pages dedicated to watching the EDL


 
That's not really an impressive statistic when you look at the number of pages dedicated to things like fisting or sporks.


----------



## Auntyfa (Jul 18, 2011)

Ok well can one of you fisting experts explain why right wing politics is becoming more popular in western europe ?


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 18, 2011)

Auntyfa said:


> Ok well can one of you fisting experts explain why right wing politics is becoming more popular in western europe ?


 
It's easy to scapegoat in times of economic hardship.  Next!


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2011)

Auntyfa said:


> Ok well can one of you fisting experts explain why right wing politics is becoming more popular in western europe ?


 
Fluoridation.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 18, 2011)

Auntyfa said:


> Ok well can one of you fisting experts explain why right wing politics is becoming more popular in western europe ?


 
Poor education and stuff?


----------



## Auntyfa (Jul 18, 2011)

OK Lets go with answer one.
Would you say that the overall management of western europe has been handled by left wing politicians?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 18, 2011)

This is another reason why they're normally banned.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 18, 2011)

Auntyfa said:


> OK Lets go with answer one.
> Would you say that the overall management of western europe has been handled by left wing politicians?


 
Haven't you got a No Remorse CD to be listening to, fashbo?


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 18, 2011)

Auntyfa said:


> OK Lets go with answer one.
> Would you say that the overall management of western europe has been handled by left wing politicians?


 
No. Next!


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2011)

Aw.  That one was like a sacrificial lamb.  I was looking forward to the bloodshed.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 18, 2011)

we see the real fascism at play here


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 18, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I note, they've all been posted on Redwatch now. Arthur2 perhaps?



Never!! I do not believe that people should be outed like that when it would put them in danger and possibly wives and kids too, nope it is not something that I agree with at all.

If you want to ban me, fine, but ban me for something I did do, not for something I did not do.

Arthur.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 18, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> On 15 July, Arthur2 said: We will continue to *kick our way* into the headlines until they do something about our concerns.



My emphasis.

What's that ^ all about then Arthur2?


----------



## audiotech (Jul 18, 2011)

Corax said:


> Is this some sort of trick question?



No.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 18, 2011)

For what it's worth, I don't think arthur did send those pics. And I don't think it's worth banning him. It seems to me that he's not just trying to persuade us that the EDL aren't racist scab cunts, he's trying to persuade himself too. I think he knows he's been taken for a mug but he's got too much invested in it now (ie. posting on the web defending the EDL 24 hours a day for the last 2 years, the sad twat)


----------



## treelover (Jul 18, 2011)

Re: 32CM, don't they support the bombers/dissidents in NI, or at least, their 'political wing' nice people to have on hand to defend the Left these days...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 18, 2011)

Well, we don't have moral and physical giants like you around anymore tl so we have to take what we can get. And frankly if I'm under attack and someone offers help I'll accept it and ask questions about their politics after. 

Do you ever change the record? Concerns about their politics have already been raised - you're adding nothing to the debate but can't resist it when it offers you a chance to indulge in your obsession of making (not so subtle) digs about the left. It's getting really, really boring now.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 18, 2011)

I don't think that ED are racist, maybe some racist among us but we as an organisation racist, no, culturist, perhaps, racist, no. I don't mind a multi-ethnic society, I was brought up in one and I really cannot see any sense in racism, it seems to me a bit, er, old fashioned, this idea that whites are somehow superior.
But the culture of England is quite superior to many others, it's tolerant, it tries to be fair, it tries to help those down on their luck, dole, medical help, housing help, the list is endless.
It could be better but it could be be far far worse. Especially should something as barbaric as shari'ah law ever get any kind of foothold here.

Problem is, it's beginning to gain ground, what do you do, submit, hell no, never, never Read Alarm, EDL are going to an Islamic area, what?? That should ring alarm bells, Islamic areas, imagine England divided up into areas or more correctly, ghettos. Sorry, cannot allow this to happen.

Arthur.


----------



## treelover (Jul 18, 2011)

'Do you ever change the record? Concerns about their politics have already been raised - you're adding nothing to the debate but can't resist it when it offers you a chance to indulge in your obsession of making (not so subtle) digs about the left. It's getting really, really boring now. '


Actually i think you will find I also have a good long term track record of highlighting basic bread and butter issues here on urban and campaigned nationally against the welfare cuts when the left was obsessing about identity politics and Iraq..

btw, do i know you?


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 19, 2011)

treelover said:


> Re: 32CM, don't they support the bombers/dissidents in NI, or at least, their 'political wing' nice people to have on hand to defend the Left these days...


 
I don't think this matters when it comes to anti fascism. The SWP and others on the left hAve a long history of supporting "terrorist" republican movements, should we not ally with these too? 

The Labour Party has committed far more crimes than republican movements could dream of but if a Labour Party member has the same ideas of fighting fascism as I do then I welcome them aboard.

Also since when did revolutionary socialists ever want "nice people" (in the terms you use the phrase) solely on board?


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 19, 2011)

Authur 2, since when did England have one culture? Do the working class estates of London have the same culture as a nice village in Kent? Does Glasgow have the same culture as Cardiff? There is no over riding culture in England or the UK. Salfordian W/C culture is different in some ways from M/C Essex culture.

Get a grip.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 19, 2011)

treelover said:


> Re: 32CM, don't they support the bombers/dissidents in NI, or at least, their 'political wing' nice people to have on hand to defend the Left these days...



terrible isn't it? I remember the Left also supporting the ANC during apartheid


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 19, 2011)

For the record, I don't think Arthur2 should be banned over the photos, I DO think that the tool who posted them up then dismissed concerns over security should be held to account.


----------



## krink (Jul 19, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> I DO think that the tool who posted them up then dismissed concerns over security should be held to account.



I had a look back through the thread to see these photos and the user should have been banned straight away. The pictures are gone now but the name used here is Rightside (maybe a clue?) and the id on the photopage is UKFD which is the shortened name of UK Freedom Forum (an EDL forum). It was obviously someone from EDL posting photos of people on here to take the piss.

Fucking ban arthur2 too - why give space to edl? they'd happily see us dead.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'Do you ever change the record? Concerns about their politics have already been raised - you're adding nothing to the debate but can't resist it when it offers you a chance to indulge in your obsession of making (not so subtle) digs about the left. It's getting really, really boring now. '
> 
> 
> Actually i think you will find I also have a good long term track record of highlighting basic bread and butter issues here on urban and campaigned nationally against the welfare cuts when the left was obsessing about identity politics and Iraq..
> ...


 
Which "the left" are you talking about tl? It's not a homogenous entity you know - trendy liberals do not the left make. And you only seem to "highlight" issues we're already fully aware of and trying to address - like on here, where the concerns have already been raised. Yes, people who self-identify as "left" have become obsessed with identity politics and international issues, to the neglect of important matters closer to home. That's hardly an earth shattering observation, do you think people here don't already know that?

I've only ever encountered you on here, thankfully.


----------



## manny-p (Jul 19, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I don't think this matters when it comes to anti fascism. The SWP and others on the left hAve a long history of supporting "terrorist" republican movements, should we not ally with these too?
> 
> The Labour Party has committed far more crimes than republican movements could dream of but if a Labour Party member has the same ideas of fighting fascism as I do then I welcome them aboard.
> 
> Also since when did revolutionary socialists ever want "nice people" (in the terms you use the phrase) solely on board?


 
I think you are looking for trouble allying yourself with them. They support groups who are ultimately anti working class.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 19, 2011)

krink said:


> I had a look back through the thread to see these photos and the user should have been banned straight away. The pictures are gone now but the name used here is Rightside (maybe a clue?) and the id on the photopage is UKFD which is the shortened name of UK Freedom Forum (an EDL forum). It was obviously someone from EDL posting photos of people on here to take the piss.
> 
> Fucking ban arthur2 too - why give space to edl? they'd happily see us dead.



I'd happily debate with you over a pint down the pub mate, I may be against the politics of the left but see you dead, that's stronging it a bit isn't it.

Arthur.


----------



## manny-p (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'd happily debate with you over a pint down the pub mate, I may be against the politics of the left but see you dead, that's stronging it a bit isn't it.
> 
> Arthur.



Jeez arthur I thought you would have given up this pro-EDL forum trolling a long time ago. I hope Tommy is paying you a wage-cos you are dedicated if not obsessed with defending the undefendable.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 19, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Authur 2, since when did England have one culture? Do the working class estates of London have the same culture as a nice village in Kent? Does Glasgow have the same culture as Cardiff? There is no over riding culture in England or the UK. Salfordian W/C culture is different in some ways from M/C Essex culture.
> 
> Get a grip.



Of course there are differences, but surely the over all culture is the same, ie, democracy, equality,freedom of speech, the right to education, the right to free medical treatment at point of use. the right not to be discriminated against, all these things are part of our culture.
Any thing which is against this, needs to be challenged, this is our way of life is it not and I feel this is what I am defending.

Arthur.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 19, 2011)

Ironic.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> But the culture of England is quite superior to many others, it's tolerant, it tries to be fair...



yes, there's so much tolerance inherent to stating that something is superior. 



> Especially should something as barbaric as shari'ah law ever get any kind of foothold here.



We had something just as barbaric when *our* nation, then as religion-centred as Islam is, was 13 centuries old. We were still hanging people for stealing food a mere 300 years ago, transporting them halfway around the world a mere 150 years ago. Hanging them by the neck until dead a mere 50 years ago.



> Problem is, it's beginning to gain ground, what do you do, submit, hell no, never, never Read Alarm, EDL are going to an Islamic area, what?? That should ring alarm bells, Islamic areas, imagine England divided up into areas or more correctly, ghettos. Sorry, cannot allow this to happen.
> 
> Arthur.


 
How is shariah "gaining ground"? Please cite me any changes to the UK's constitutional law that allow a place for religious law to be practiced *in place of* civil and criminal law.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 19, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Authur 2, since when did England have one culture? Do the working class estates of London have the same culture as a nice village in Kent? Does Glasgow have the same culture as Cardiff? There is no over riding culture in England or the UK. Salfordian W/C culture is different in some ways from M/C Essex culture.
> 
> Get a grip.



Since when were Cardiff and Glasgow in England?!


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 19, 2011)

I was merely expanding the argument to the wider UK as there are the WDL, SDL and UDL however minute they are.

"There is no over riding culture in England or the UK"


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 19, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I was merely expanding the argument to the wider UK.
> 
> "There is no over riding culture in England or the UK"


 
Do you think mixing England up with the rest of the UK is, er, wise?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

EDL thought it was wise to demo in Cardiff... 

they have done a few in North Wales also...


----------



## audiotech (Jul 19, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> ...transporting them halfway around the world a mere 150 years ago.



There was this just this month:



> An Australian trade unionist due to take part in the annual rally to commemorate the Tolpuddle Martyrs, who were deported for forming a trade union, has herself been deported.



How's that for irony!

http://www.tuc.org.uk/mediacentre/tuc-19758-f0.cfm


----------



## ddraig (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Of course there are differences, but surely the over all culture is the same, ie, democracy, equality,freedom of speech, the right to education, the right to free medical treatment at point of use. the right not to be discriminated against, all these things are part of our culture.
> Any thing which is against this, needs to be challenged, this is our way of life is it not and I feel this is what I am defending.
> 
> Arthur.


why aren't you on the side of the anti cuts movement then? 
or at least those that are fighting the erosion of our civil liberties and (sic) equalities and who have been for years?


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 19, 2011)

I don't really understand where you're coming from. Like a poster has said the EDL have done demos in Wales and the SDL did one in Berwick upon Tweed.


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 19, 2011)

audiotech said:


> There was this just this month:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 the official who did this is likely a PCS member who would have been on strike and expecting solidarity from the rest of us last month


----------



## audiotech (Jul 19, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> the official who did this is likely a PCS member who would have been on strike and expecting solidarity from the rest of us last month



Need more than "likely"?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Need more than "likely"?


 
think about it.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

This been posted yet?


http://edl-nottingham.co.uk/an-open-threat-to-the-edl-from-alarm/



> The All London Anarchist Revolutionary Movement (ALARM) have posted a open ‘Threat’ to the English Defence League ahead of the Tower Hamlets Demo 3/9/11.
> 
> ——————————————————————————————
> 
> ...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Of course there are differences, but surely the over all culture is the same, ie, democracy, equality,freedom of speech, the right to education, the right to free medical treatment at point of use. the right not to be discriminated against, all these things are part of our culture.
> Any thing which is against this, needs to be challenged, this is our way of life is it not and I feel this is what I am defending.
> 
> Arthur.



Well then the EDL are against this and need to be challenged. They're against freedom of speech and association for the left and Muslims. They support the TORY government that's actively trying to increase inequality. When students were demonstrating against tuition fees (ie. for free education) the EDL opposed them and sided with the police who were beating students and disabled people with batons.

These things are not part of "British" culture. They are all things the left and the labour movement has faught for over the years, things groups like the EDL have consistently helped the establishment to oppose.

Fuck off scab.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 19, 2011)

sod it


----------



## krink (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I'd happily debate with you over a pint down the pub



If you're ever in the north east let me know and we'll debate then you fucking scab cunt.


----------



## Deareg (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Of course there are differences, but surely the over all culture is the same, ie, democracy, equality,freedom of speech, the right to education, the right to free medical treatment at point of use. the right not to be discriminated against, all these things are part of our culture.
> Any thing which is against this, needs to be challenged, this is our way of life is it not and I feel this is what I am defending.
> 
> Arthur.


 
All the above have been fought for and won by the working class and will be taken away from us if we ever stop fighting or drop our guard, it was cunts like the EDl who have happily sided with the ruling classes in their attempts to deny us those rights and will side with them again in their attempts to take them away again.


----------



## Corax (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Of course there are differences, but surely the over all culture is the same, ie, democracy, equality,freedom of speech, the right to education, the right to free medical treatment at point of use. the right not to be discriminated against, all these things are part of our culture.
> Any thing which is against this, needs to be challenged, this is our way of life is it not and I feel this is what I am defending.
> 
> Arthur.


 
None of these things are an overriding part of UK culture.

democracy - FPTP is rigged and not everyone's vote is equal
equality - Nope. Rife with discrimination on the basis of capital
freedom of speech - UK libel laws tourism
the right to education - which varies in quality massively depending on how much money you have
the right to free medical treatment at point of use - not for long if Lansley gets his way, and seriously eroded already
the right not to be discriminated against - What, seriously?  Like Blags intimated, the irony is palpable


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jul 19, 2011)

treelover said:


> Re: 32CM, don't they support the bombers/dissidents in NI, or at least, their 'political wing' nice people to have on hand to defend the Left these days...


 
The 32csm Have been on hand to tackle the issue of anti-social behaviour and Drugs in various parts of YORK. Residents approached the 32csm when the police and council offered no solution to the problem, and im happy to add it lead to a reduction in incidents for the residents who aproached and no bombs were involved in the process.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 19, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Jeez arthur I thought you would have given up this pro-EDL forum trolling a long time ago. I hope Tommy is paying you a wage-cos you are dedicated if not obsessed with defending the undefendable.



Because I think my cause is just one and some one needs to fight this stealth jihad.

Arthur.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur, but you have the 'freedom' to come out with any old noncense?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Because I think my cause is just one and some one needs to fight this stealth jihad.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Hang on, isn't the message from EDL HQ that the "jihad" (give me strength) is happening openly in front of us all, and that the "communists" of the State (yeah, I saw that "David Cameron is a Marxist Jew" comment on one of the pro-EDL Walls on Facebook - funnily enough, it was neither deleted nor challenged) aren't doing anything about it?  Why is it "stealth" all of a sudden then?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

The "stealth jihad" is making all the EDL eat more bacon, drink more stella and sniff more cheap coke. <<< heart attack init


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 19, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Well then the EDL are against this and need to be challenged. They're against freedom of speech and association for the left and Muslims. They support the TORY government that's actively trying to increase inequality. When students were demonstrating against tuition fees (ie. for free education) the EDL opposed them and sided with the police who were beating students and disabled people with batons.
> 
> These things are not part of "British" culture. They are all things the left and the labour movement has faught for over the years, things groups like the EDL have consistently helped the establishment to oppose.
> 
> Fuck off scab.



First off, support the Tories, I don't think so, we are affiliated to no political parties and me personally I voted for the raving loony party in the past but I haven't voted this century at all, complete waste of time as all politicians are corrupt.
It's the politicians who have and are buggering this country up, not EDL, EDL are a symptom of of the mess, not the cause.
You know full well that the Labour party deliberately set out to bugger us all up.
You seem to forget that EDL was formed whilst Labour was in power and allowed our troops to be abused, even to the extent of having to buy their own boots.

You also seem to forget that it was Labour who created the cuts and they were supposed to be on the side of the unions and the working man.

Perhaps I might also remind you that EDL did not start this fight with the left, the left, via the UAF and SWP did, they decided we were an enemy. So what on did they think the reaction would be. We didn't want this.
In the beginning we approached several left wing groups, like Mariam Namazies One Law for All. The Council of Ex Muslims and a couple of others who's names I forget. But by then the left had decided that we were Nazis, racist, fascist, hooligans etc.

It was the left who decided to be violent, smash the EDL, favourite slogan by the UAF, lone EDLers getting beaten up after leaving a demo by groups of UAF and SWP.
So it is not that EDL are not anti the cuts but more anti the left, which is not the same thing at all.

Arthur.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Because I think my cause is just one and some one needs to fight this stealth jihad.
> 
> Arthur.


 
Stealth as in impossible to be detected? Have you thought that might be because it only exists in the minds of paranoid fuckwits like you?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur, 

do you acknowledge the fact every day people think the EDL are cunts? you know normal every day folk with no polictical agenda?


----------



## elfman (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> It was the left who decided to be violent, smash the EDL, favourite slogan by the UAF, lone EDLers getting beaten up after leaving a demo by groups of UAF and SWP.


 
Wow... if I got beat up by someone from the SWP, I'd be ashamed to even of admitted it...

On a more serious note. I'm anti-EDL and a socialist but have never agreed with UAF tactics in regards to the EDL. However, you act as if EDL have always conducted themselves in an exemplary manner, when its obvious that its quite easy to attach a hooligan and racist tag to the EDL because these people are rife in your ranks.

Can you provide a bit more evidence on the EDL trying to contact the said groups please? (Mariam Namazies One Law for All. The Council of Ex Muslims etc ) And also, when were they approached and did they give a response or ignore you? Also, has there been any attempt by EDL on a local level to engage with muslim communities? By that I mean actual organised meetings not shouting abuse at them in the street.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 19, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Hang on, isn't the message from EDL HQ that the "jihad" (give me strength) is happening openly in front of us all, and that the "communists" of the State (yeah, I saw that "David Cameron is a Marxist Jew" comment on one of the pro-EDL Walls on Facebook - funnily enough, it was neither deleted nor challenged) aren't doing anything about it?  Why is it "stealth" all of a sudden then?



Well, any idiot can make stupid comments on Faceache, but Cameron, like Blair and Brown appease the Islamists out of fear.
You only have to look at Tower Hamlets to see the future. Bit by bit they have taken over and as they have the violence has increased.
The teacher beaten half to death, Gay people driven out, their pub attacked and some poor sod is now paraplegic. Women given death threats, shari'h courts deciding inheritance, child custody and what they try to call minor criminal cases.

You think that they have no influence, try publishing a book that criticises Islam. What about female GM, why no prosecutions, despite the fact that it goes on a lot.
Why, when Anne Cryer said 10 years ago that non Muslim children were being targeted by Muslim gangs was nothing done.
These things are far, far more important than some one job, go and get another one.

Arthur.


----------



## skitr (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Well, any idiot can make stupid comments on Faceache, but Cameron, like Blair and Brown appease the Islamists out of fear.
> 
> 
> 
> Arthur.



Lol what? Have you heard of the Conservative party before? Not exactly bezzie mates with immigrants.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> But by then the left had decided that we were Nazis, racist, fascist, hooligans etc



Let me, if I may, throw a couple of questions out there?

1.  Which member of the EDL joined the not-fascist-at-all-no-guv British National Party in 2004 on a "family" membership, and was snapped at a BNP meeting in Lution in 2007 listening to Richard "Holocaust News" Edmonds?
2.  Which member of the EDL was an active supporter/participant in the Luton Town FC hooligan firm MIGS?
3.  Which EDL-affiliated grouping (most famous on Facebook) have started openly collaborating with the Redwatch site, run by the head of the openly-fascist British People's Party?
4. Which organisation has a former admin of the EDL forum (and self-proclaimed proud member of the EDL) on the British Democracy Forum, who posts in the BNP sub-forum, making openly racist and homophobic postings?
5.  Which founder member of the EDL was convicted and imprisoned not too long ago on possesion of class A substances and child pornography (hint: "Tommy Robinson" and Kevin Carroll started a Fighting Fund for them)?
6.  Which Scottish Division of a certain organisation is made up of "virtually 100%" BNP members (not supporters, members)?
7. Which disaffected member of the EDL has started propagating the virulently anti-Semitic Protocols of the Elders of Zion as "fact"?
8.  Which north-east division of a certain organisation was caught twice hooking up with the National Front on "actions"?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> First off, support the Tories, I don't think so, we are affiliated to no political parties and me personally I voted for the raving loony party in the past but I haven't voted this century at all, complete waste of time as all politicians are corrupt.
> It's the politicians who have and are buggering this country up, not EDL, EDL are a symptom of of the mess, not the cause.
> You know full well that the Labour party deliberately set out to bugger us all up.
> You seem to forget that EDL was formed whilst Labour was in power and allowed our troops to be abused, even to the extent of having to buy their own boots.
> ...


 
I seem to remember the EDL leader gloating that Cameron was on your side. And I also seem to remember him pledging to side with the police against the students protesting for free education.

That you confuse the Labour party with the labour movement only serves to further illustrate your ignorance. Here's a news flash - Labour are no longer a party of the left, nor are they a party of the working class - they've shifted so far to the right as to be indestinguishable from the other lot.

You'll struggle to find a single Labourite (or swappy for that matter) on here.

Can you explain how "labour created the cuts" please? 

Maybe "the left" (you seem to share that fuckwit treelover's belief that the left is a homogenous entity and that all those who identify as left must share the blame for everything stupid pseudo left wankers do) dismissed you as racists and fascists because the leadership has always contained BNP and NF activists. Do you want me to list them? Tommy Robinson (BNP) Chris Renton (BNP), plenty more. Then there's the mods on your forum, which included "Wigan" Mike Heaton, who is now in jail for death threats to Jews. Maybe the left had a problem with the "we hate pakis more than you" songs?

And I find it very hard to believe that a group that's "kicking its way into the headlines" gets beaten up by the effete sorts in the UAF/SWP. I also seem to remeber that it was the EDL who ran riot first in Stoke. In Brum it wasn't the left that gave you a deserved beating - it was locals.

Anyway, why do the EDL attack anti-cuts stalls? Ones that have nothing whatsoever to do with the SWP/UAF? You see, you cry when people lump you in with the BNP and NF, yet you do exactly the same (with far less justification) to us when you lump us in with the SWP, UAF and Labour.

You act as a distraction from the real fight - a fight against a government bent on destroying all those things you claim to value.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Well, any idiot can make stupid comments on Faceache, but Cameron, like Blair and Brown appease the Islamists out of fear.
> You only have to look at Tower Hamlets to see the future. Bit by bit they have taken over and as they have the violence has increased.
> The teacher beaten half to death, Gay people driven out, their pub attacked and some poor sod is now paraplegic. Women given death threats, shari'h courts deciding inheritance, child custody and what they try to call minor criminal cases.
> 
> ...


 
You're fucking batshit insane.


----------



## Arthur2 (Jul 19, 2011)

At the end she sort of refers to us, but her message to us was no way.

This today from our leicester division,

At our last small demonstration in Leicester city centre i was asked how id feel about meeting up with a "very very moderate muslim". As one who never likes to miss an opportunity to further our cause i agreed. i mean if nothing else was gained from it, it can not now be said we are not willing to talk to the muslim community or that we care not for the feelings of moderate muslims.Anyway after saying that i would obviously respect his faith and meet anywhere, when i was aked if id want to meet in a pub, i waited for the call. the meeting place was set and the call came through, to my surprise it was to be in a small backstreet pub in the city centre at 3 pm friday afternoon!! the participants being myself,an inspector from Leicestershire costabulary and Suleman Nagdi MBE.

The time came and i was sat waiting when they walked in, the inspector introduced me to Suleman who immediatley greeted me with a "right handed" hand shake!! Then we sat down for an informal 2 hr discussion on the pros and cons of both the Muslim community and the English Defence League. I was aware that Suleman supported some of our main aims as an organisation but was actually quite surprised as to how many of them exactly. Remember this meeting was not to make any decisions or formal agreements but merely to open up a dialogue and to see what if anything could be done to bring the moderates out in support of our history,heritage,culture, the EDL and most importantly our troops!!

As i have said we discussed issues for about 2 hrs! We covered everything from the obvious sex gangs,islamists,and hate preachers right through to changing verses of the quran so they can not be interpreted in such extreme ways!!Now unless this was was pure taqiyya and me being duped, what is clear is Suleman at least does support our troops,our way of life and our concerns. We discussed our own local islamists from the clocktower, dawuud mannion(ginger convert hate preacher) and his band of "brothers" and how the muslim community saw one of his protests off from near spinney hill park, and how the islamic standard blog(dawuuds) is full of hate both for the British and the moderate muslim community.

we agreed on all of those matters and agreed that people like dawuud must be stopped, but this was my cue to bring in a verse from the quran, you know the one the islamists always spout?one of the ones with the non-believers?

Qur’an 2:191-2-"Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers."

with this i found myself being told about interpretation and how this was only said to be true in war time and in a conflict zone if you like! well my reponse was that the islamists out there are in a "war", their jihad, they firmly believe they are fighting their jihad against the west! and therefore, to them, that verse is being interpreted in exactly the same way! only it can be brought into play as jihad is global and so then is their "war zone"!. we had to agree that this was the case and that these "nutters" do frimly believe they are interpreting this correctly! this led me to say that this is where the quran itself needs to change in these aspects, so that these nutters can not interpret the verses in this way.I appreciate that he will not be able to make these changes but at least hes heard it, its now upto him to convey this message to the muslim community.

with all of this middle ground established, the conversation went to talk of the muslim community standing with the EDL or at the very least understanding the EDL. there are no plans as yet for the Leicester division to be holding a joint march with them but hey who knows maybe one day!! Both myself and the inspector explained to Suleman that biased press and whipped up fear prior to the National demo in Leicester in october had led to us as a division being treated rather unfairly by the police and the muslim community.The inspector seemed happy to take over at this point and gave what can only be described as a glowing reference of not only the Leicester Division but the East Mids region,United Midlands divisions and anyone else who has been represented at our local organised and local flash demonstrations, dealt with by Leicestershire constabulary! At this point we tasked ourselves with finding a way of getting it out to the public that our cause is just! that not every muslim will agree with everything we say but that they have no reason to dismiss us or be scared of us or what we have to say! and that islamism must be stopped.

in conclusion, its clearer to me now that not every muslim will agree with all we have to say but there is definatley a middle ground to be found on most of it. And at least in the Leicester if nowhere else the ball is now clearly in the muslim communities court when it comes to publicly outing the islamists. Since the 9th october 2010 what we are finding here is that Leicestershire constabularies opinion of us has changed, the moderate muslim communities opinion is opening up to change and the general public support is rapidly growing. i was asked where i wanted this to go now and for now all ive suggested is some kind of acknowledgment publicly for both the English and Muslim communities wanting to speak! And that the English Defence League Leicester division were the first to try and build that bridge!!

Maybe just maybe the tide is turning, it certainly feels that way around here.

NO SURRENDER


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

Do you honestly expect us to read that obvious c&p bollocks? You surrender to the old bill at every demo arthur, you know it as well as I do. You're Cameron's loyal opposition you daft scab cunt.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> You only have to look at Tower Hamlets to see the future. Bit by bit they have taken over and as they have the violence has increased.
> The teacher beaten half to death, Gay people driven out, their pub attacked and some poor sod is now paraplegic. Women given death threats, shari'h courts deciding inheritance, child custody and what they try to call minor criminal cases



Seeing as I've visited Tower Hamlets on many occassions over the years, I'll deal with these:

1.  The people convicted of violently assaulting the teacher are now spending a considerable amount of time at her Majesty's Pleasure.  Any support from the local Tower Hamlets community for these violent wannabe Salafist eejits?  Hmm, nope.  None at all.

2.  There is undeniably an issue with LGBTs in Tower Hamlets re intimidation, abuse etc, but I can tell you from personal experience, that in all the time I've spent in TH, I've had NO hassle from the Bangladeshi etc peeps whatsoever.  From the glorious, tolerant "white" race?  Hell yeah.  Funny that, innit?  Also:  this may shock and/or awe you, but there gay Muslims out there in TH who haven't been "driven out" or what have you.

3.  That pub has been attacked by just about every variety of homophobic eejit over the years - yeah, them white ones certainly like to have a go, funnily enough.

4. Do you feel the same empathy for the victims of David Copeland, pray tell?  Or do you wish he could've successfully bombed Brick Lane and then Southhall (which was his next target)?

5. You think women receiving death threats is the exclusive domain of Bangladeshis etc in TH?  What?

6. Shariah courts?  Wrong.  They do not "decide" anything to do with child custody and "minor criminal cases".  Where did you get those facts?  Jihadwatch?  And anything to do with inheritance etc is negotiated in the courts, not decided on haughtily.

I'll lwt the other Urbanz on here to comment on the rest of your post - I need to go make a cup of tea, for starters.


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## Arthur2 (Jul 19, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Seeing as I've visited Tower Hamlets on many occassions over the years, I'll deal with these:
> 
> 1.  The people convicted of violently assaulting the teacher are now spending a considerable amount of time at her Majesty's Pleasure.  Any support from the local Tower Hamlets community for these violent wannabe Salafist eejits?  Hmm, nope.  None at all.
> 
> ...



Did you listen to the link I gave to Mariam Namazies speech, she'll tell you all about Shari'ah courts.

Arthur.

PS, I'm from Hackney, so I know TM well enough.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> Did you listen to the link I gave to Mariam Namazies speech, she'll tell you all about Shari'ah courts.
> 
> Arthur.


 
I was going to, until I realised this is the woman who wants the overthrow of "Christianity" in the UK too....you are aware of this, aren't you?

e2a:  Since you're a Hackney man, would you care to comment on my answers to the points you raised?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

I quite like her to be honest - but unlike the EDL she also opposes the Jewish Beth Din courts and the Protestant ones in Scotland. Why don't you oppose those backward religious courts too Arthur? Is it 'cos they're not for brown people?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 19, 2011)

Hang on marayam is a  brilliant brave committed communist who has repeatedly spat in the face of the edl and people like arthur when they have _offered_ overtures.


----------



## england (Jul 19, 2011)

hi all,
       after many months of reading your posts i feel i have to say this..why do all the uaf and lefties not see the average man in the street is anti muslim,,have you been to theses inner city ghettos,or do you not venture out of cambridge.i am not racist,however i do feel my country is being held at knife point by the ever increasing muslim popullation,,wise up people and be proud to be english,our grandfathers fought for us, would they be proud of you..uaf..ask yourself that and be proud to be an englishman,,


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)




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## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> PS, I'm from Hackney, so I know TM well enough.


 
So well you can't get the initials right. And Shariah courts in Britain can only rule on civil matters where everyone involved acknowledges the legitimacy of the court. I can't say I'm a fan either but it's nothing like what you're suggesting and it's nothing like Iran.


----------



## skitr (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> hi all,
> after many months of reading your posts i feel i have to say this..why do all the uaf and lefties not see the average man in the street is anti muslim,,have you been to theses inner city ghettos,or do you not venture out of cambridge.i am not racist,however i do feel my country is being held at knife point by the ever increasing muslim popullation,,wise up people and be proud to be english,our grandfathers fought for us, would they be proud of you..uaf..ask yourself that and be proud to be an englishman,,


 
Hi Arthur.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

^^^ We have a live one (again).

Define "English" - that would be a start.  My "English" encompasses white, Black, Asian, Latin Americans etc etc - what about you?
e2a: aimed at "england"


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> hi all,
> after many months of reading your posts i feel i have to say this..why do all the uaf and lefties not see the average man in the street is anti muslim,,have you been to theses inner city ghettos,or do you not venture out of cambridge.i am not racist,however i do feel my country is being held at knife point by the ever increasing muslim popullation,,wise up people and be proud to be english,our grandfathers fought for us, would they be proud of you..uaf..ask yourself that and be proud to be an englishman,,


 
LOL. My grandfather didn't fight for you, you scab prick. And who here is UAF?


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## england (Jul 19, 2011)

spineless you all support uaf..


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Hang on marayam is a  brilliant brave committed communist who has repeatedly spat in the face of the edl and people like arthur when they have _offered_ overtures.



Now that I didn't know - thanks for letting us know that fact, butchersapron. 

So Arthur - what do you say to that, then?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> spineless you all support uaf..


 
No "we" don't.  Are we all "unwashed communist scum" too?

How about answering my question too?


----------



## england (Jul 19, 2011)

melly i agree..


----------



## skitr (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> spineless you all support uaf..


 
Lol read this thread, UAF aren't exactly the most liked group around these parts. If you're going to spout shit that contradicts your mate, at least make it well informed?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

UAF -Muzzies - EDL

cos there is nobody else


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

Oh and it's England dick head, not england.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> melly i agree..


 
Another fascist then, I see (I nicked that handy little phrase from John Tyndall)?


----------



## england (Jul 19, 2011)

As Macphee and Poddar argue in their book Empire and After, that even though for many outside the borders of the British isles Englishness and Britishness may seem like two synonymous expressions, the two are not identical and their relation to each other is for the most part is highly complex. Englishness is often a response to different national identities within Britain such as Scottishness, Irishness, Welshness. However this does not necessarily entail that it is appropriate to call the people living in England as English. For many, Englishness connotes e.g. “whiteness” and people other than white descendants (especially citizens from former British colonies) may feel that the more open term Britishness is to be preferred. It could therefore be said that Englishness is a response to the internal local pressure from other countries in Britain while Britishness developed as a reaction towards the global community. Though the designation of the two terms is not as simple since they are invariably conflated, they are both tied into the identity of the British nation and empire, since these last two are altering considerably as Englishness and Britishness do too. Thus the slippage between the two words can be seen as a play between these changing dynamics


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

well done you can copy and paste.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> As Macphee and Poddar argue in their book Empire and After, that even though for many outside the borders of the British isles Englishness and Britishness may seem like two synonymous expressions, the two are not identical and their relation to each other is for the most part is highly complex. Englishness is often a response to different national identities within Britain such as Scottishness, Irishness, Welshness. However this does not necessarily entail that it is appropriate to call the people living in England as English. For many, Englishness connotes e.g. “whiteness” and people other than white descendants (especially citizens from former British colonies) may feel that the more open term Britishness is to be preferred. It could therefore be said that Englishness is a response to the internal local pressure from other countries in Britain while Britishness developed as a reaction towards the global community. Though the designation of the two terms is not as simple since they are invariably conflated, they are both tied into the identity of the British nation and empire, since these last two are altering considerably as Englishness and Britishness do too. Thus the slippage between the two words can be seen as a play between these changing dynamics


 

Nice C&P from here


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> As Macphee and Poddar argue in their book Empire and After, that even though for many outside the borders of the British isles Englishness and Britishness may seem like two synonymous expressions, the two are not identical and their relation to each other is for the most part is highly complex. Englishness is often a response to different national identities within Britain such as Scottishness, Irishness, Welshness. However this does not necessarily entail that it is appropriate to call the people living in England as English. For many, Englishness connotes e.g. “whiteness” and people other than white descendants (especially citizens from former British colonies) may feel that the more open term Britishness is to be preferred. It could therefore be said that Englishness is a response to the internal local pressure from other countries in Britain while Britishness developed as a reaction towards the global community. Though the designation of the two terms is not as simple since they are invariably conflated, they are both tied into the identity of the British nation and empire, since these last two are altering considerably as Englishness and Britishness do too. Thus the slippage between the two words can be seen as a play between these changing dynamics



Do you want a scrap?


----------



## skitr (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> As Macphee and Poddar argue in their book Empire and After, that even though for many outside the borders of the British isles Englishness and Britishness may seem like two synonymous expressions, the two are not identical and their relation to each other is for the most part is highly complex. Englishness is often a response to different national identities within Britain such as Scottishness, Irishness, Welshness. However this does not necessarily entail that it is appropriate to call the people living in England as English. For many, Englishness connotes e.g. “whiteness” and people other than white descendants (especially citizens from former British colonies) may feel that the more open term Britishness is to be preferred. It could therefore be said that Englishness is a response to the internal local pressure from other countries in Britain while Britishness developed as a reaction towards the global community. Though the designation of the two terms is not as simple since they are invariably conflated, they are both tied into the identity of the British nation and empire, since these last two are altering considerably as Englishness and Britishness do too. Thus the slippage between the two words can be seen as a play between these changing dynamics


 
If you're going to try and pass something off as your own, at least put all the spelling and grammar mistakes in that you made in your last posts, so we know that you so dearly care about the language you claim to defend?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 19, 2011)

You equate "English" with "white"?  What about the Jewish community then who've been here since Cromwell - are they not "white" either?

e2a:  What you you say to our new "england" friend, Arthur?  Do you agree with him, or are you going to argue against him too?


----------



## england (Jul 19, 2011)

whats the problem bob..i have fought for my country..real bullets not x box have you..cock


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> melly i agree..


 
Have you always been this stupid or was the the lobotomy that did it?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> whats the problem bob..i have fought for my country..real bullets not x box have you..cock


 
Shame they missed then really.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> whats the problem bob..i have fought for my country..real bullets not x box have you..cock


 
15th prestige motherfucker


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> hi all,
> after many months of reading your posts i feel i have to say this..why do all the uaf and lefties not see the average man in the street is anti muslim,
> <snip>



Errrrr...cos they're not.


----------



## Blagsta (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> whats the problem bob..i have fought for my country..real bullets not x box have you..cock


 
Oh dear, a Walt.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> whats the problem bob..i have fought for my country..real bullets not x box have you..cock



Your comrades salute you with toy guns.

[video]http://www.pickledpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/EDL11.jpg[/video]


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> hi all,
> after many months of reading your posts i feel i have to say this..why do all the uaf and lefties not see the average man in the street is anti muslim...



Oddly enough, I've lived in the "inner city" part of south London for nearly half a century, mostly in council housing, and I don't know *anyone* who isn't middle-class who is anti-Muslim. Most of us down in the shit don't have time for anti-this or anti-that bullshit, we're too busy defending ourselves from the arseholes in government.

The worst cunts? Lower middle-class cunts like yourself who're scared of everything, including your own shadows.



> have you been to theses inner city ghettos...



I've lived in 'em and near 'em most of my life. Ghettos of the poor.



> or do you not venture out of cambridge...



I've only ever visited Cambridge once, for a Wimbledon away game about 25 years ago.



> i am not racist,however i do feel my country is being held at knife point by the ever increasing muslim popullation...



If you believe that, then you're one of three things:

1) You're stupid, because the Muslim demographic is increasing only slightly faster than "whites".

2) You're deluded, and believe any old shite people tell you, or

3) You're a racist trying to dress up your racism in a load of old guff about "your country".

You know what I despise about most of you rancid poxy racist cunts who bang on about "my country"? Most of you have never given a fuck about your country, you certainly haven't fought for it yourselves, just like the mighty warriors of the BNP and the NF before them: Big gobs, and happy to fight when they're mob-handed, but shit your briefs and run like fuck at the idea of actually fighting a fair fight, or serving your country.



> wise up people and be proud to be english,our grandfathers fought for us, would they be proud of you..uaf..ask yourself that and be proud to be an englishman,,


 
6 generations of my family served in the British army. I'm proud of them, proud they had the courage of their convictions and were good soldiers, and you ask me to be proud of a country that still shits on it's soldiers once they've had bits blown off them? Kiss my arse. I've just had to watch the news and see that my regt has taken yet another casualty because an *English* parliament doesn't have the balls to leave Afghannistan and tell the Yanks to find a new fig-leaf.

Fuck off and die.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 19, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Your comrades salute you with toy guns.
> 
> [video]http://www.pickledpolitics.com/wp-content/uploads/EDL11.jpg[/video]


 
LOL It's like Four Lions - proper replica innit


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2011)

£20 says his facebook profile say this

Education - university of life - shcool of hard knocks. 
Favorite movie - This is England


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> LOL. My grandfather didn't fight for you, you scab prick. And who here is UAF?


 
Not a single one of us, except RMP3, I believe.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> spineless you all support uaf..


 
Fuck off, no-mark. I shit on UAF. They're wankers. I wouldn't piss on most of Weyman's Warriors if they were burning.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> whats the problem bob..i have fought for my country..real bullets not x box have you..cock


 
Really? battn and regt then, please, and where and when you've served.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> i am not racist,however


 
Fuck off.

You're a class traitor. You will be beaten.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Oh dear, a Walt.


 
The right produces a lot of them. The amount of fat-bellied, skin-headed blokes I've met claiming to have been army (usually Paras, naturally) over the years is quite stupendous. Most of them have been so thick though, that you know they're Billys almost straight away, because they don't even know the names of the pubs near the barracks they were supposedly based at.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> spineless you all support uaf..


 
You're a fucking idiot.

Let's meet up. I bet I hate the UAF more than you hun.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 19, 2011)

England. seriously let's hook up.

We need a chat.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 19, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> £20 says his facebook profile say this
> 
> Education - university of life - shcool of hard knocks.
> Favorite movie - This is England


 
lolled


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> You're a fucking idiot.
> 
> Let's meet up. I bet I hate the UAF more than you hun.


 
I bet the twat doesn't even realise why so many anti-fascists don't like UAF.

Here's a clue, "england", it's because they get all self-righteous and upset if you give a fascist a leathering. They prefer to shout slogans rather than throw punches.

So, a bit like the EDL then, to be fair.


----------



## Deareg (Jul 19, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> £20 says his facebook profile say this
> 
> Education - university of life - shcool of hard knocks.
> Favorite movie - This is *e*ngland



Corrected for you.


----------



## Corax (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm going to grow a beard and start reading from right to left just to piss off the likes of 'england'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2011)

england said:


> hi all,
> after many months of reading your posts i feel i have to say this..why do all the uaf and lefties not see the average man in the street is anti muslim,,have you been to theses inner city ghettos,or do you not venture out of cambridge.i am not racist,however i do feel my country is being held at knife point by the ever increasing muslim popullation,,wise up people and be proud to be english,our grandfathers fought for us, would they be proud of you..uaf..ask yourself that and be proud to be an englishman,,


 
imams with axes.

I'll reserve pride for something that wasn't an accident of birth thanks. Spare me your shit about ivory tower dwellers who never saw nuffin outside of leftie land. My englishness isn't shame nor pride to me, it just is. You want to look at that flag and look at the whats been done under it. You rally under it by choice and you are fool. 'our grandfathers died etc' for the bosses wars and the furtherance of the aims of the upper classes. You're a thice fooled mug if you can't see this brand of anti-immigrant 'keep st george in my heart' nonsense as perfectly serving one set of interests. Not yours.


----------



## ernestolynch (Jul 20, 2011)

england said:


> As Macphee and Poddar argue in their book Empire and After, that even though for many outside the borders of the British isles Englishness and Britishness may seem like two synonymous expressions, the two are not identical and their relation to each other is for the most part is highly complex. Englishness is often a response to different national identities within Britain such as Scottishness, Irishness, Welshness. However this does not necessarily entail that it is appropriate to call the people living in England as English. For many, Englishness connotes e.g. “whiteness” and people other than white descendants (especially citizens from former British colonies) may feel that the more open term Britishness is to be preferred. It could therefore be said that Englishness is a response to the internal local pressure from other countries in Britain while Britishness developed as a reaction towards the global community. Though the designation of the two terms is not as simple since they are invariably conflated, they are both tied into the identity of the British nation and empire, since these last two are altering considerably as Englishness and Britishness do too. Thus the slippage between the two words can be seen as a play between these changing dynamics


 
Which would be relevant if not for the fact that the English originated in Afghanistan or some shit hole like that. White Europeans they are not, unlike the Celts.


----------



## dennisr (Jul 20, 2011)

arthur2 said:


> no surrender



no suspender


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 20, 2011)

I'm sick of these EDL trolls popping up and - surprise surprise - they're all appearing following Arthur2.


----------



## krink (Jul 20, 2011)

ban the lot including arthur. why give them space?


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 20, 2011)

Arthur2 said:


> I don't think that ED are racist, maybe some racist among us but we as an organisation racist, no, culturist, perhaps, racist, no. I don't mind a multi-ethnic society, I was brought up in one and I really cannot see any sense in racism, it seems to me a bit, er, old fashioned, this idea that whites are somehow superior.
> But the culture of England is quite superior to many others, it's tolerant, it tries to be fair, it tries to help those down on their luck, dole, medical help, housing help, the list is endless.
> It could be better but it could be be far far worse. Especially should something as barbaric as shari'ah law ever get any kind of foothold here.
> 
> ...



You're confused. Say, do you know "trencherbone"?


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 20, 2011)

They're all over the Telegraph blogs too.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 20, 2011)

They have a team of people who make comments on all news sites and forums.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 20, 2011)

No, I've banned him now for promoting racist organisations and encouraging interboard trolling, that's enough of this rubbish. Can't believe it took so long, sorry. Anybody who wants to continue the amazingly productive "debate" that's been going on here can do so on any number of Facebook groups, local newspaper comment sections, forums with embarrassing header graphics involving roses or lions or bulldogs, and so on.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 20, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They have a team of people who make comments on all news sites and forums.



Yeah, I'd noticed. I tracked one commenter who called himself "anders" to a thoroughly racist blog on which he links to "trencherbone" and The Gates of Vienna. The Torygraph allows racists and bigots to infest their blogs without so much as a reprimand.


----------



## Fruitloop (Jul 20, 2011)

Didn't we have an anders for a bit?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 20, 2011)

ernestolynch said:


> Which would be relevant if not for the fact that the English originated in Afghanistan or some shit hole like that. White Europeans they are not, unlike the Celts.



So the oft-told story about members of the Welsh Guards being able to converse with the wily Pathan due to their languages being extremely similar back during the 3rd Afghan war is myth then?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 20, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They have a team of people who make comments on all news sites and forums.


 
perhaps we could have a thread that watches that as well


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 20, 2011)

i didn't think Arthur2 was a problem whilst he was sticking to this thread. though it's obviously one side of the thing some of the posts illuminate some of the internal discussions etc... not devoid of interest.


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 20, 2011)

krink said:


> ban the lot including arthur. why give them space?


 Im sure Stormfront gives them plenty of space.


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 20, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Yeah, I'd noticed. I tracked one commenter who called himself "anders" to a thoroughly racist blog on which he links to "trencherbone" and The Gates of Vienna. The Torygraph allows racists and bigots to infest their blogs without so much as a reprimand.


 The Torygraph comment section attracts some right offensive loons.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 20, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> perhaps we could have a thread that watches that as well


 
only if people pop in now and then and moan about it mind.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 20, 2011)

Lancashire EDL Witch Hunt By The Police


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 20, 2011)

> Chas Girling: fuck all the muslim scum smelly cunts all need killing..



^^^That's a cracking quote from the EDL East Anglia Division Facebook.


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 21, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> ^^^That's a cracking quote from the EDL East Anglia Division Facebook.


 Its positivity Wildean


----------



## jannerboyuk (Jul 22, 2011)

Is it me or are the edl types obsessed with smells? weird


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 22, 2011)

EDL facbooked hacked by Zhc


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2011)

Bother in arms eh arthur?


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 23, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> The Torygraph comment section attracts some right offensive loons.



Aye, it says a lot about the paper tbh.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 23, 2011)

Waiting to see if the killer (Anders Behring Breivik) who gunned down over 80 kids in Norway is a member of the Nordic/Norwegian defence league, sister organization of the EDL.

His profile fits. Right wing, islamphobe, christian and a cunt.

The police have taken down his facebook so we can't see his affiliations.

EDL, this is one of yours..


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 23, 2011)

The EDL must be gutted it wasn't an Islamic group what done it


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 23, 2011)

Even more gutted he had links to them, was on some members friends lists and also wanted to set up the NDL.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Even more gutted he had links to them, was on some members friends lists and also wanted to set up the NDL.



Get the screenshots...What an inopportune moment for the EDL facebook to have been hacked.

Socialist worker is going with this line but sources need to be verified. This link has already been posted on the Oslo Bomb Island thread where I just copied it.

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=25501


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 23, 2011)

http://islamversuseurope.blogspot.com/2011/07/anders-behring-breiviks-comments-about.html

Gives translations to the guy who's been charged online comments.

Spotted this being posted on EDL facebooks. 

So many EDL are refusing to come to terms with a non-Islamic terrorist.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 23, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> http://islamversuseurope.blogspot.com/2011/07/anders-behring-breiviks-comments-about.html
> 
> Gives translations to the guy who's been charged online comments.
> 
> ...



Someone needs to remind them about Johnny Adair.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 23, 2011)

http://www.channel4.com/news/oslo-attacks-anders-behring-breivik-profile

Channel 4 reoprt EDL links


----------



## Exodus Cheese (Jul 23, 2011)

Want some EDL members' phone numbers?
http://pastebin.com/iVknup3H


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 23, 2011)

and now the Guardian,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks-utoya-gunman


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.channel4.com/news/oslo-attacks-anders-behring-breivik-profile
> 
> Channel 4 reoprt EDL links


 
Channel 4 have substituted the initials BNP with GDP in that text where it says;

_"the news which has booster EDLs ranks high. This has also benefited *GDP*. WinWin for both"_

The original is this;

_"har boostet EDLs rekker kraftig. Dette har i tillegg gavnet *BNP*. WinWin for begge"._

Are they frightened of being sued?


----------



## laptop (Jul 23, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Channel 4 have substituted the initials BNP with GDP in that text where it says;
> 
> _"the news which has booster EDLs ranks high. This has also benefited *GDP*. WinWin for both"_
> 
> ...




Subs' caution:



> # Norwegian: brutto nasjonalprodukt ( abbreviation BNP )



Probably wrong, though!


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)

[video]http://youtu.be/QomPbU0btnY[/video]


----------



## machine cat (Jul 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> [video]http://youtu.be/QomPbU0btnY[/video]


 
Too funny 



Edit: He just used the word 'sheeple'


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)

You couldn't make it up.....


----------



## machine cat (Jul 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> You couldn't make it up.....


 
...but he just did


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)

Yeah but how do you know he made it up? Have you questioned everything ?


----------



## machine cat (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm obviously not 'awake'.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)

> Joy Winter - facebook - Would a leftie Gov really cover up a muslim attack to fulfill their aims politically? Yes I believe they would.



these people are fuking nuts.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> and now the Guardian,
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks-utoya-gunman


 
The relief for the Guardian and its ilk that the gunman wasn't Muslim must have been enormous. Mean while  the anti fascists can end up creaming themselves about the 'threat' of neo nazi terrorism which entirely misses the success of far right nationalism.


----------



## treelover (Jul 24, 2011)

You wacist!


----------



## treelover (Jul 24, 2011)

The SWP are all over the blogs screaming at anyone who has challenged them over Islamaphobia, etc, basically blaming them for contributing to the climate that created Breivik and the atrocity, etc..


----------



## audiotech (Jul 24, 2011)

This idiot ^ has some gall.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=194227040631921&set=o.204837019566083&type=1  he may have been on EDL demo.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 24, 2011)

.


----------



## Corax (Jul 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> [video]http://youtu.be/QomPbU0btnY[/video]


 
"The liberal elite and their EU masters"


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)

Corax said:


> "The liberal elite and their EU masters"


 

You have been blocked by the owner of this video.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)




----------



## Gingerman (Jul 24, 2011)

Now now lets not tar the EDL with the same brush as the Norwegian loon,cause we know they'd never dream of doing that to certain other groups


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2011)

treelover said:


> The SWP are all over the blogs screaming at anyone who has challenged them over Islamaphobia, etc, basically blaming them for contributing to the climate that created Breivik and the atrocity, etc..


 
They've probably got a point in a lot of cases.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 

100% support for terrorist bombs there from an EDL supporter. Scum.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 24, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> 100% support for terrorist bombs there from an EDL supporter. Scum.


 
Not too bright either, surely the police are going to be monitoring sites like that closely now? I bet that's his real name as well!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 24, 2011)

treelover said:


> The SWP are all over the blogs screaming at anyone who has challenged them over Islamaphobia, etc, basically blaming them for contributing to the climate that created Breivik and the atrocity, etc..


 
And are pretty much correct. The EDL and parts of the media have been whipping up goebles-esque anit-mulism hysteria for years. This creates the conditions where a hate filled nut job can feel justiifed in carrying out atrocities.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 24, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> And are pretty much correct. The EDL and parts of the media have been whipping up goebles-esque anit-mulism hysteria for years. This creates the conditions where a hate filled nut job can feel justiifed in carrying out atrocities.



The EDL, are themselves a clear result of years of a media orchestrated build up of Islamphobia. We've had a non-stop trickle of propaganda partly to help justify the historic "war on terror" since decisions were made to invade Iraq. It's also convenient as part of israel's agenda to demonize muslims and include Palestinians into the equation so as to try to politically justify their own atrocities. I believe many journalists across europe are paid to periodically write inflamatory articles where Israel is praised whilst palestinians are equated with Al Queda.

The appearance of active Islamphobia on the streets in the form of the EDL has helped take things a step further. We now have an environment where extreme right wingers feel confident enough to go "_Paki bashing_" or UAF hunting on the streets of Britain.

As the rightwing press (telegraph, Star etc) show no signs of letting up on their scare mongering campaigns against all muslims we can expect not only groups like the EDL to become more violent but individuals like Anders to also rear their heads in the UK.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 24, 2011)

> The manifesto that 32-year-old suspect Anders Behring Breivik published online ranted against Muslim immigration to Europe and vowed revenge on those "indigenous Europeans" whom he deemed had betrayed their heritage. The document said... "treasonous acts."



As the Scab EDL say, "Your not english anymore"


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> As the Scab EDL say, "Your not english anymore"


 
I LOL'd hard when they shouted that at me,........ in Cardiff.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/24/norway-gunman-london-connection-edl?CMP=twt_fd



> "I used to have more than 600 EDL members as Facebook friends and have spoken with tens of EDL members and leaders. In fact; I was one of the individuals who supplied them with processed ideological material (including rhetorical strategies) in the very beginning."


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

> Hunt for Britons linked to Norway killer Anders Behring Breivik
> A hunt for possible British accomplices of the mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik is under way after it emerged that he began his deadly “crusade” after meeting other Right-wing extremists in London.



This I find hard to believe:



> MI5 is not currently involved in tracking down Right-wing extremists but sources admitted the attacks could force a change of tactics. One of the largest arms caches found in recent years in England was in the possession of a Right-wing terrorist in Yorkshire two years ago.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-to-Norway-killer-Anders-Behring-Breivik.html


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 25, 2011)

According to the Telegraph 

"Scotland Yard counter-terrorism officers are now trying to establish whether Breivik visited London in recent years and whether he was part of a wider network preparing to carry out similar attacks". 

Look scotland Yard, Look!!!



B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=194227040631921&set=o.204837019566083&type=1  he may have been on EDL demo.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> You have been blocked by the owner of this video.



Me too BOB2oo9.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 25, 2011)

> Norway terror attacks – Something aint right here
> 23 07 2011
> 
> This whole thing just dont add up, it stinks of a set up. A few questions people have raised.
> ...



This shit has been floating around the sesspits of EDL facebooks and similar. The same rubbish spoken by that div in the videos with the goaty beard whose in love with himself. Cringeworthy stuff from a bunch of cunts.

In fact the EDL are in heavy DENIAL about all this. The same as they are about being ripped off by leadership and having pedofiles in their ranks.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 25, 2011)

Yet we know that shit is boll0cks..


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 25, 2011)

Teh newspapers and the media is at it....


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 25, 2011)

That shit aint us..................


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2011)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-role-of-english-defence-league-2319895.html


That screen shot made the indy


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 25, 2011)

The EDL are a a ag o shite.. Now tey got a platform doesnt make them right.. They are so fucking wrong.. and our politicians should not be on their side.. I fucking despair.... Neonazism is rife.. Enough...


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-role-of-english-defence-league-2319895.html
> 
> 
> That screen shot made the indy


 
Good, The EDL deserve all the shit they're gonna get. They have a poisonous mindset and what happened in Norway was a massacre born from a poisonous mindset.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

And yet more of their nonsense.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2011/07/edl-facebook-norway-breivik/


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 25, 2011)

They have control. ya missed it Anudder....


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jul 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-role-of-english-defence-league-2319895.html
> 
> 
> That screen shot made the indy


that "article" is utter shite.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 25, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> that "article" is utter shite.


 
Yeah..


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

From that 'article'. I didn't know this:



> Rudolf Hess's remains were dug up for cremation recently to stop pilgrimages by Neo-Nazis to Hitler's deputy's last resting place....


----------



## albionism (Jul 25, 2011)

from EDL Facebook page.. "His also privately educated, owned 2 houses...doesn't strike me
as working class.He stinks of anti-capitalism"


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 25, 2011)

More apologies from Tim Stanley at the Torygraph. Notice how he uses the words "liberal commentators". He's writing this for an American readership.


> Anders Breivik’s murderous rampage is being used by liberals to guilt conservatives by association. Not only is this disingenuous, but it runs the risk of validating this man’s view of himself as a political terrorist. Breivik was not a Tea Party supporter, a “fundamentalist Christian” or a Neo-Nazi agent. He was a lone psychopath.
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/t...s-not-bear-responsibility-for-anders-breivik/



I spent part of yesterday, trawling through the comments on Will Heaven's irresponsible blog "Oslo explosion; Is al-Qaeda behind this"?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willheaven/100098400/oslo-explosion-is-al-qaeda-behind-this/

Loads of boneheads in complete denial


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 25, 2011)

audiotech said:


> From that 'article'. I didn't know this:


 
sure was. His grand daughter objected but the local council and church were sick of visiting nazis. There was a 'memorial' to Hess where he landed in Scotland that the ANL smashed up ( in front of TV cameras as I recall) in the early 1990s.

In fact here is a link

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...g-flight-of-adolf-hitlers-deputy-1505595.html


----------



## treelover (Jul 25, 2011)

Why is so much criticism of the EDL(perhaps not on here) about their physical appearance and writing skills or lack of them...


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 25, 2011)

treelover said:


> Why is so much criticism of the EDL(perhaps not on here) about their physical appearance and writing skills or lack of them...


 
"ill fitting suits"
tbh UKIP are more worrying, they actually get elected!


----------



## Deareg (Jul 25, 2011)

treelover said:


> Why is so much criticism of the EDL(perhaps not on here) about their physical appearance and writing skills or lack of them...


 
Contempt for the white working class is rife throughout what passes for the left in Britain, it is not aimed just at the EDL.


----------



## TheDave (Jul 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Contempt for the white working class is rife throughout what passes for the left in Britain, it is not aimed just at the EDL.


 
Equating the white working class with tracksuited eejits on EDL demos is also rife in some circles.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-14278957

EDL founder Stephen Lennon 'led fans' in fight in Luton


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-14278957
> 
> EDL founder Stephen Lennon 'led fans' in fight in Luton


 
Well, well, well - the EDL were putting out that Yaxley-Lennon was "on honeymoon" when the Oslo etc tragedy began to point to them, and here he is in the UK having to account for (according to the prosecution) reliving his MIGS "glory days".  A statement on current events, if you please, Mr Yaxley-Lennon...


----------



## elfman (Jul 25, 2011)

treelover said:


> Why is so much criticism of the EDL(perhaps not on here) about their physical appearance and writing skills or lack of them...



Because some people are too scared to take on their actual arguments so try discredit them in patronising ways....


----------



## ddraig (Jul 25, 2011)

elfman said:


> Because some people are too scared to take on their actual arguments so try discredit them in patronising ways....


 
what are their 'actual' arguments that haven't been taken on then?


----------



## elfman (Jul 25, 2011)

ddraig said:


> what are their 'actual' arguments that haven't been taken on then?


 
I'm referring to certain liberals and UAF when I say that. I don't generally mean people on here


----------



## laptop (Jul 25, 2011)

Well, _hello_ elfman...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2011)

tanning boy on newsnight tonight


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2011)

can i LOL in advance?


----------



## Corax (Jul 25, 2011)

I hope Paxman does a better job than last time.


----------



## elfman (Jul 25, 2011)

laptop said:


> Well, _hello_ elfman...


 
erm... hello?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Contempt for the white working class is rife throughout what passes for the left in Britain, it is not aimed just at the EDL.


 
Liberals if you don't mind, there's nothing "left" about the kind of cunts who use "chav" as an insult and think it's a good line of argument to point out that many EDLers are on the dole.


----------



## grogwilton (Jul 25, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> As the Scab EDL say, "Your not english anymore"



When they shouted that at us in Reading we replied with 'you're not Reading anyway' to the Bussed in Essex, Plymouth and Surrey (LOL) wankers.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/25/english-defence-league-founder-brawl

Watch him sit there and say the EDL is non violent tonight, after leaving court today for this ^


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> sure was. His grand daughter objected but the local council and church were sick of visiting nazis. There was a 'memorial' to Hess where he landed in Scotland that the ANL smashed up ( in front of TV cameras as I recall) in the early 1990s.
> 
> In fact here is a link
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...g-flight-of-adolf-hitlers-deputy-1505595.html



I remember the memorial being smashed up.

I'm always reminded when I hear the name Hess, of the actor playing Bernard 'Barney' Sumner in the film 'Control', the drama doc about Joy Division, making an appearance in their previous band 'Warsaw', stating to the audience the words "You all forgotten Rudolph Hess?". Goes down like a lead balloon.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 25, 2011)

elfman said:


> I'm referring to certain liberals and UAF when I say that. I don't generally mean people on here


hello

anyway, what are the actual arguments then?  
ta


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I remember the memorial being smashed up.
> 
> I'm always reminded when I hear the name Hess, of the actor playing Bernard 'Barney' Sumner in the film 'Control', the drama doc about Joy Division, making an appearance in their previous band 'Warsaw', stating to the audience the words "You all forgotten Rudolph Hess?". Goes down like a lead balloon.




It's on the electric circus album - and it's joy division.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/25/english-defence-league-founder-brawl
> 
> Watch him sit there and say the EDL is non violent tonight, after leaving court today for this ^



considering what the main players got recently for the Chelsea-Cardiff handbags last year - 2 years a piece for some of them , for basically- bouncing up and down a bit - Lennon actually got off pretty lightly here, suspiciously so some might say


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It's on the electric circus album - and it's joy division.



It's on the Warsaw CD that I have in front of me and it's Warsaw.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 25, 2011)

audiotech said:


> It's on the Warsaw CD that I have in front of me and it's Warsaw.



the track on electric circus was recorded when they were warsaw but they were joy div by the time anyone took any notice! anyone else got the 10 inch lp on blue vinyl?


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

The song in question was recorded in May '78. The name change happened in early '78:



> Billed as Warsaw to ensure an audience, the band played their first gig as 'Joy Division' on 25 January 1978 at 'Pip's Disco' in Manchester.



So, butchersapron is right, the song was recorded after the name change, nonetheless, they did play this song when called 'Warsaw' and that's what the clip in this film depicts, so that's right too. We are both right, you are wrong.


----------



## elfman (Jul 25, 2011)

ddraig said:


> hello
> 
> anyway, what are the actual arguments then?
> ta


 
Do I really need to go into them? I'm presuming you're already familiar with them if you're posting on this thread...


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 25, 2011)

There were loads of Nazi symbolism around punk,post punk and Factory Records.It was like being a bit daring about he past. The rubbing point was that the Nazis at the time couldn't find a band who really believed in all that stuff and who produced any decent music. I remember one of the NF 'theoretical' magazines ( I think Harrington wrote the article) wishing that there was a racial,nationalist band whose music people genuinely liked.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 25, 2011)

Can I just say, Newsnight is going to be hugely worth watching tonight.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 25, 2011)

cantsin said:


> considering what the main players got recently for the Chelsea-Cardiff handbags last year - 2 years a piece for some of them , for basically- bouncing up and down a bit - Lennon actually got off pretty lightly here, suspiciously so some might say


 
Thank heavens for the Tories custody as a last resort policy


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2011)

Channel 4 news has an article about EDL links to the NDL that Breivik claimed to have co-founded, including EDL apparently issuing a ruling over an NDL leadership conflict. 

http://www.channel4.com/news/edls-connections-with-breiviks-norwegian-cell

And they have another angle:



> EDL's chief financier, Alan Lake, travelled to Malmo in Sweden in September, 2009, where he talked about how best to form anti-Islamic groups in the image of the EDL.
> 
> And in April, Mr Lake was interviewed on Norwegian TV, saying he would execute people who believed in Sharia law.
> 
> ...


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 25, 2011)

cantsin said:


> considering what the main players got recently for the Chelsea-Cardiff handbags last year - 2 years a piece for some of them , for basically- bouncing up and down a bit - Lennon actually got off pretty lightly here, suspiciously so some might say



Do you think so? If it was anybody else I might feel sympathy as it looks dodgy to me but it is him so couldn't give a fuck. He was stupid being so well known and being anywhere near the MiGs let alone at the front. 

The main players last year were doing more than bouncing around from the footage I saw.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 25, 2011)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tensive-links-to-English-Defence-League.htmlc

Newsnight, BBC 2 ten minutes. Tommy may soil himself


----------



## Fingers (Jul 25, 2011)

and charging journos £50 to attend a press conference? WTF?


----------



## Fingers (Jul 25, 2011)

Paxo just made him look like he was sick in his mouth! ouch!


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2011)

Shitting bricks


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2011)

Watch him sweat and fumble


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2011)

Fucked


----------



## Corax (Jul 25, 2011)

Tommy seems a little, er... stimulated...


----------



## Fingers (Jul 25, 2011)

Destroyed. The nationals are running with the demo links with ABB tomorrow as well


----------



## spartacus mills (Jul 25, 2011)

'Newsnight' is a top notch this evening


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 25, 2011)

EDL gobshite on Newsnight - cunt


----------



## Deareg (Jul 25, 2011)

Paxman is fucking useless.


----------



## Fedayn (Jul 25, 2011)

I thought he did quite well as it goes.


----------



## Fedayn (Jul 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Paxman is fucking useless.


 
yup


----------



## TruXta (Jul 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Paxman is fucking useless.


 
This. Looked like he couldn't be bothered.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2011)

Paxman dealt with him the way he should have, almost like gently swatting a fly


----------



## Corax (Jul 25, 2011)

I may have to play that back at half speed.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

Hopeless.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2011)

He could have at least had a pop ffs


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> He could have at least had a pop ffs


 
Why bother? Sounded just like some mouthy little git you hear in the local after a few too many...


----------



## Deareg (Jul 25, 2011)

They obviously did fuckall research before allowing the wanker on air, I could have done a better fucking job myself.


----------



## Deareg (Jul 25, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> Why bother? Sounded just like some mouthy little git you hear in the local after a few too many...


 
No he fucking didn't.


----------



## IC3D (Jul 25, 2011)

so what was the point in that give the EDL a platform and undoubtedly do what that Norwegian nutter wanted.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> No he fucking didn't.


 
Yes he fucking did. And they normally get short shrift.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

Paxman: 'Hang-on, that sounded like a threat?'

Yaxley-Lennon: 'Blah-de, blah-de-blah' (licking lips).

Paxman: 'OK'


----------



## Deareg (Jul 25, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> Yes he fucking did. And they normally get short shrift.


 
Unfortunately that is how many working class men talk, he got his lies across almost fucking unchallenged.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 25, 2011)

elfman said:


> Because some people are too scared to take on their actual arguments so try discredit them in patronising ways....


 
I'd love to hear a coherent argument from 'em.
The NF may have been deep-fried _scheissefotzen_, but at least they were vaguely coherent when it came to arguing their position. With the EDF, the politics seems to vary from member to member, even your line on Islam.


----------



## OneStrike (Jul 25, 2011)

Thought paxman really let the show down just then barring pulling him up on the threat sounding comment at the end.  His research appeared to be based on facebook comment/pictures, very poor.  I guess he found it beneath him.


----------



## Corax (Jul 25, 2011)

At the very least when Lennon talked about rejecting violence he could have brought up his convictions for it.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 25, 2011)

So Darren Hobson dropped him in the shit. Hope he has left the country.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 25, 2011)

There was the researched stuff beforehand. 'A year with the EDL' (must be a 'special' due?) and Yaxley-Lennon in Norway? Not sure it'll have had an impact?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 25, 2011)

elfman said:


> Do I really need to go into them? I'm presuming you're already familiar with them if you're posting on this thread...


 
Well that's part of the problem surely? we hear one person say one thing, another member from another division says something else. One EDLer says "kill Pakis" another says "no, just them Islamists, not the good Pakis". It's a bit of a shambles, if you're honest.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 25, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> There were loads of Nazi symbolism around punk,post punk and Factory Records.It was like being a bit daring about he past. The rubbing point was that the Nazis at the time couldn't find a band who really believed in all that stuff and who produced any decent music. I remember one of the NF 'theoretical' magazines ( I think Harrington wrote the article) wishing that there was a racial,nationalist band whose music people genuinely liked.


 
Instead, they got Skrewdriver.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 25, 2011)

elfman said:


> Do I really need to go into them? I'm presuming you're already familiar with them if you're posting on this thread...


 
I'd like to hear your take on them. Go for it.


----------



## OneStrike (Jul 25, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> Why bother? Sounded just like some mouthy little git you hear in the local after a few too many...


 
That reads terribly smug to me.  The edl bloke got more points across than most Oxbridge gents get past Paxman in an interview 3x as long.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 25, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Instead, they got Skrewdriver.


 
... and Saga ... apparently.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 25, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> That reads terribly smug to me.  The edl bloke got more points across than most Oxbridge gents get past Paxman in an interview 3x as long.


 
only because he'd done a couple of mahoosive fat lines just before! 

but yes he did get a 'lot' across and it could have gone worse for him, paxo was weak and should've challenged him more


----------



## Fedayn (Jul 25, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Instead, they got Skrewdriver.


 
Good first album.


----------



## Fedayn (Jul 25, 2011)

Paxman had no evidence to back up his claims. He made a claim, Lennon refuted it and Paxman went 'oh' and moved on. He couldn't land a punch. There's picture after picture, evidence upon evidence that the EDL has violent memebrs... aims, there's evidence galore but he failed miserably. Now I agree Lennon was ranting away, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
The point is defeating the EDL politically won't be done by smug pompous liberals like Paxman but by working class communities arguing for W/C needs. Challenging the EDL claims to be 'working class' and yet they support and cheer on the cuts. That's where we should challenge them and how their racially motivated and derived politics is incapable of challenging the problems all working people face.


----------



## articul8 (Jul 25, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> the EDL claims to be 'working class' and yet they support and cheer on the cuts.


Really?  evidence of this should be publicised more widely - would soon close down their support


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 25, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> <snip> they support and cheer on the cuts. <snip>


 That'll finish them in the places where the cuts will fall hardest (ie places that don't vote tory/libdem)


----------



## treelover (Jul 25, 2011)

'That reads terribly smug to me. The edl bloke got more points across than most Oxbridge gents get past Paxman in an interview 3x as long. '

Yes, Paxo seemed somnabulent, it was a very strange interview and I was surprised to see so much get past:, while Lennon was agitated, he did recover his composure and imo got his central message across: that there is a problem with Islam and if it isn't 'dealt with' by the state' then there will ultimately be events like in Norway. This interview through Y/T etc will be seen by many thousands who never dream of watching Newsnight, yet again the 'ill fitting suits' brigade on here just don't get it...


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 25, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> That reads terribly smug to me.  The edl bloke got more points across than most Oxbridge gents get past Paxman in an interview 3x as long.


 

Unfortunately gotta agree. The edl bloke had the floor to himself and to think otherwise is either smug or delusional. He sped thru the "Anders was horrible" bit to get straight to his point about the perceived muslim threat, unchallenged. What a platform they just handed the edl.


----------



## Fedayn (Jul 25, 2011)

Read Arthur on here he's vocal about the need for the cuts, their criticisms of trades unions etc. Lennon made public threats against student anti cuts demonstrators.


----------



## treelover (Jul 25, 2011)

I should add I consider that interview will be used as a recruiting tool by the EDL who are getting much more professional, look at the website and imo, despite the sweating, i suspect Lennon has had some media training..


----------



## creak (Jul 25, 2011)

Paxman was utterly shit. Tommy said exactly what he wanted, virtually unchallenged. FFS, what was the point?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2011)

Paid for by alan lake lol


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 26, 2011)

superb piece from expose here:

http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/8046023850/home-grown-breivik-to-be


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

Not heard it yet but he was on 5 live this AM and seems to have done not as well as the free ride paxo gave him.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jul 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Not heard it yet but he was on 5 live this AM and seems to have done not as well as the free ride paxo gave him.


Yep, i heard most of the interview this morning, it wasn't terribly different to last night's Newsnight tbh, its clear that a quasi-liberal middle-class media has very little idea about how to engage and argue a point with a self-proclaimed w/c representative - a spokesman for Qulliam Foundation did put a couple of interesting points to him but Nicky fucking Campbell couldn't resist interjecting with his own (needless to say rather pointless) point, so he swerved from answering the more in-depth probing on double standards inre: his reactions to muslim and Xian extremism.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

WTF?

why cant anyone take him to task on his out and out lies?

5 mins on the internet tells you all need to now about these cunts.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 26, 2011)

.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.firstpost.com/fwire/uk-group-admits-links-with-norwegian-killer-48562.html

UK group admits links with Norwegian killer


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/features/article/38/Anders-Behring-Breivik-was-in-contact-with-the-EDL

Searchlight Press Release | Tuesday, 26 July 2011 

Anders Behring Breivik was in contact with the EDL,


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

from Twitter.... 



> David Rose
> 
> Tommy Robinson leader of English Defence League is charging £50 per i/view "due to [his] finances being sequestered". Times not paying! #EDL


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 26, 2011)

Someone just forwarded me this email from UAF, thought it was worth posting here:



> Public meeting: Remember Norway, say no to the EDL
> 
> There will be a public rally against the racist and Islamophobic English Defence League at the London Muslim Centre this Friday 29 July.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

Tower Hamlets on 3 September will be intresting now if it's still on. I can see more people coming out to counter demo after whats just happend. I'm going to do my best to make it down if i can.


----------



## Kippa (Jul 26, 2011)

One could argue that some elements of extremism/racism could be due to jobs going abroad with regards to globalisation.  Most the jobs that have gone overseas were mainly blue collar working class jobs.  Recently a local councils has relocated it's whole IT deparment overseas.  If other councils and companies do the same we could see a lot of white collar jobs going abroad.  This might be a stereotype but EDL seem to be more working class, but with white collar jobs going abroad do you think we will see a different kind of extremeist/racist group emerging, mainly being middleclass white collar people?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 26, 2011)

Kippa said:


> One could argue that some elements of extremism/racism could be due to jobs going abroad with regards to globalisation.  Most the jobs that have gone overseas were mainly blue collar working class jobs.  Recently a local councils has relocated it's whole IT deparment overseas.  If other councils and companies do the same we could see a lot of white collar jobs going abroad.  This might be a stereotype but EDL seem to be more working class, but with white collar jobs going abroad do you think we will see a different kind of extremeist/racist group emerging, mainly being middleclass white collar people?


 
There's always room for racists, whatever their background. And they will always have their apologists, too.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Jul 26, 2011)

Tommy on Jeremy Vine: http://bbc.in/oKXOOG (after 1:09:50)


----------



## ddraig (Jul 26, 2011)

Kippa said:


> One could argue that some elements of extremism/racism could be due to jobs going abroad with regards to globalisation.  Most the jobs that have gone overseas were mainly blue collar working class jobs.  Recently a local councils has relocated it's whole IT deparment overseas.  If other councils and companies do the same we could see a lot of white collar jobs going abroad.  This might be a stereotype but EDL seem to be more working class, but with white collar jobs going abroad do you think we will see a different kind of extremeist/racist group emerging, mainly being middleclass white collar people?


 
maybe those 'middleclass white collar people' should stop whinging, get off their backsides and lobby their councils/employers to not privatise, outsource and send work overseas then


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 26, 2011)

Anyone heard of this shower before? 







They call themselves CxF (Combined Ex Forces)and are posturing to be some sort of paramilitary offshoot of the EDL.


----------



## Deareg (Jul 26, 2011)

Sounds like some kind of walter mitty character.


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah that was my first thought. Then again reading the bollocks that Breivik wrote in his manifesto, I would have said much the same of him before the weekend.


----------



## Deareg (Jul 26, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> Yeah that was my first thought. Then again reading the bollocks that Breivik wrote in his manifesto, I would have said much the same of him before the weekend.


 
Maybe time will tell? Worth keeping an eye though for now.


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 26, 2011)

Also is the Black Hart of Islam a pub?


----------



## Deareg (Jul 26, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> Also is the Black Hart of Islam a pub?


 
If it is then it is your round.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 26, 2011)

Ex-military putting his plans for all to see on FB...hmmm


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah seems a bit dumb, although he has got his profile locked down and not public.  Planning this sort of thing on Facebook is the height of stupidity regardless of privacy settings though. Then again he doesnt seem the smartest cookie judging by his posts on other Facebook groups.


----------



## Corax (Jul 26, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> Anyone heard of this shower before?


 
Referred to (with undertones of idolatry) quite regularly by various EDL 'Angels' and Roberta Moore as well IIRC.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)




----------



## Luther Blissett (Jul 26, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> Anyone heard of this shower before?
> 
> They call themselves CxF (Combined Ex Forces)and are posturing to be some sort of paramilitary offshoot of the EDL.


He's a member of 4Freedoms.ning forum and goes by the name of Tha Grenadier: http://twitpic.com/27e7z9 (calls to start paramilitary offshoot of EDL) and http://twitpic.com/5w96f1 (admits he's a convicted people smuggler)


He has used other surnames 'Allan Hetherington-Cleverley' and formerly of the British Army (then Allan Gallup), he did 4 years for smuggling Chinese immigrants into Britain via his connections to Albanian gangsters. He has given at least one speech at an EDL demo (notably Dudley 17 July 2010)


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 26, 2011)

Smuggling immigrants? Fuck. You couldn't make it up (as Littlejohn would say!)


----------



## Corax (Jul 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




To be fair to them, I've not seen any AQ on our streets for ages, so whatever they're doing must be working.


----------



## elfman (Jul 26, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'd love to hear a coherent argument from 'em.
> The NF may have been deep-fried _scheissefotzen_, but at least they were vaguely coherent when it came to arguing their position. With the EDF, the politics seems to vary from member to member, *even your line on Islam*.


 
Erm, do you (and others from some of the responses I've had) think I'm EDL or sumet? I'll make it clear first of all that I'm not (although I have been accused of being EDL a few times because of the way I look actually...)

I agree it varies from member to member and some of them aren't worth even debating with and just need to be physically dealt with. Some of them are worth debating with, especially as the vast majority of EDL members have a very simplified view on Islam (along with a lot of western society). 

Generally when I have debated with EDL members on the street (which are fairly easy to come across living in West Yorkshire), giving a general class analysis along with explaining the complexity of Islamic culture and beliefs as well as comparing it to other religious thought has worked well to a degree. I've not converted anyone in to a class struggle anarchist but I think its a better way to deal with *some* of them instead of shouting 'Nazi' at them or making it out that they're all illiterate. I'd say if this sort of approach of trying to talk to the members of the EDL instead of turning their demos into a circus straight away might of avoided a lot of shit thats gone on since.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

9.30 onwards you can see Tommy with Alan Lake at a meeting about the EDL which was broadcast on TV in Aus. last night he said Alan Lake had nothing to do with the EDL.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Jul 26, 2011)

In the pinstripe suit - 'Aeneas Lavinium (Aeneas Europa on youtube) - runs the ICLA (International Civil Liberties) website. Took EDL to Berlin in April 2010 for the Pax Europa/PI News rally in support of Geert Wilders. Made a speech there on their behalf. Made speech in 2010 at CounterJihad Europa Project Annual Conference on success of EDL (conference run since 2007). CounterJihad Europa Project is project of ICLA (ex. CVF) - itself a project of Center for Security Policy (these are US outreach from a tier of interelated Gaffney post PNAC projects)

In the specs and plain suit - Alan Lake. No idea wtf he is or where he came from, but seriously looks like an old NF suit. 

The woman in glasses - Roberta Moore - ex-leader of the chopped liver division -- sorry, semi-ficitious Jewish Division (an extremist who assoc. with JTF). Kahanist through and through.

What with Kev Carroll   and Tommy Robinson's tongues. Neither of them can keep them in, can they!

I don't know who the other men are.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Jul 26, 2011)

Sick. Sick sick sick sick sick. 
http://twitpic.com/5wb2cv/full


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...mailed-manifesto-to-250-British-contacts.html 


Anders Behring Breivik emailed his 1,500-page “manifesto” to 250 British contacts less than 90 minutes before he detonated a bomb in Oslo.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 26, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> In the pinstripe suit - 'Aeneas Lavinium (Aeneas Europa on youtube) - runs the ICLA (International Civil Liberties) website. Took EDL to Berlin in April 2010 for the Pax Europa/PI News rally in support of Geert Wilders. Made a speech there on their behalf. Made speech in 2010 at CounterJihad Europa Project Annual Conference on success of EDL (conference run since 2007). CounterJihad Europa Project is project of ICLA (ex. CVF) - itself a project of Center for Security Policy (these are US outreach from a tier of interelated Gaffney post PNAC projects)
> 
> In the specs and plain suit - Alan Lake. No idea wtf he is or where he came from, but seriously looks like an old NF suit.
> 
> ...



People in politics lying, wow. I trust you're not surprised.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Jul 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...mailed-manifesto-to-250-British-contacts.html
> 
> 
> Anders Behring Breivik emailed his 1,500-page “manifesto” to 250 British contacts less than 90 minutes before he detonated a bomb in Oslo.



Not only British contacts. There were 1,003 recipients in total.

Vlaams Belang MP Tanguys Veys who had no contact with Brevik but was sent a copy, is in ther same party as MP Dr Alexandra Colen whose husband Paul Beliën runs The Brussels Journal, which was a main mouthpiece for Fjordman's influential  (to Breivik) essays. Vlaams Belang emerged in 2004 from the banned (for repeated incitement to discrimination) Vlaams Blok.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 26, 2011)

yeah the link says that,


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Ex-military putting his plans for all to see on FB...hmmm


 
Must be an ex-Para.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> He's a member of 4Freedoms.ning forum and goes by the name of Tha Grenadier: http://twitpic.com/27e7z9 (calls to start paramilitary offshoot of EDL) and http://twitpic.com/5w96f1 (admits he's a convicted people smuggler)
> 
> 
> He has used other surnames 'Allan Hetherington-Cleverley' and formerly of the British Army (then Allan Gallup), he did 4 years for smuggling Chinese immigrants into Britain via his connections to Albanian gangsters. He has given at least one speech at an EDL demo (notably Dudley 17 July 2010)




For a former Gren (a Guards regt, so heavily into squarebashing etc) he's got appalling posture. One of the ways you can tell old career soldiers is the fact that they stand and walk like they've got a broomstick rammed up them from the arse to the top of the head. That bloke looks like the nearest he's got to standing at attention is standing at the bar.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 26, 2011)

elfman said:


> Erm, do you (and others from some of the responses I've had) think I'm EDL or sumet? I'll make it clear first of all that I'm not (although I have been accused of being EDL a few times because of the way I look actually...)



Dunno what you look like, but you came across neutrally. The "your" was an attempt at fishing. 



> I agree it varies from member to member and some of them aren't worth even debating with and just need to be physically dealt with. Some of them are worth debating with, especially as the vast majority of EDL members have a very simplified view on Islam (along with a lot of western society).



This is one of the difficulties in attempting to address the EDL and their potential as a threat: Unlike the BNP and NF, or even UKIP to some extent, the membership aren't unified around a cohesive ideology, what binds them is this set of incoherent positions and, quite possibly, the same sort of fellow-feeling to be found on the terraces (or among coppers, say).



> Generally when I have debated with EDL members on the street (which are fairly easy to come across living in West Yorkshire), giving a general class analysis along with explaining the complexity of Islamic culture and beliefs as well as comparing it to other religious thought has worked well to a degree. I've not converted anyone in to a class struggle anarchist but I think its a better way to deal with *some* of them instead of shouting 'Nazi' at them or making it out that they're all illiterate. I'd say if this sort of approach of trying to talk to the members of the EDL instead of turning their demos into a circus straight away might of avoided a lot of shit thats gone on since.


 
Never seen the point in shouting "Nazi" at someone, or talking about "the Nazi BNP" or "the Nazi EDL". Just makes people sound like petulant twats. Call 'em what they are, if you're going to shout at them at all - call them racists.

I reckon you're right insofar as talking might be a better method of convincing the EDL's "floaters", the ideologically-unconvinced folks who're just along for the ride, to have a think about what they're supporting, because sure as hell, getting shouted at by Weyman's Warriors is just going to unify them with their more hardcore brethren against the Trots.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Jul 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah the link says that,


 
What the link doesn't say is that the to the best of my knowledge, the Vlaams Belang were the first European far-right party to renounce anti-semitism, replace with Islamophobia, and adopt a pro-Israel (Likud-Herut) stance, after deliberate outreach from the Counter Jihad Europa Project. 
http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/CounterJihad_Europa

Expert on the Counter Jihad Project Toby Archer explains in this document: 




			
				Learning to love the Jews: the impact of the War on Terror and the counter-jihad blogosphere on European far right parties. said:
			
		

> Despite its ultra-nationalist discourse, the European far right has long shown some internationalism, as connections between various fascist and skinhead groups in Europe demonstrate1. But post-9/11 we have seen a new phenomenon of populist far-right parties who seriously seek wider political support being impacted upon by the originally predominantly-American originating counter-jihad discourse that both reflects and contributes to the U.S. government’s self-proclaimed “War on Terror”. Recently this discourse has produced “the Counter-Jihad” movement: a loose network of activists that has formed as an online, imagined community within the “blogosphere”. The impact of the discourse in general and the movement in particular on European politics has been to enable far-right parties to move away from their previously anti-Semitic rhetoric and replace it with an increased emphasis on the danger that Islam (and, hence, Muslim immigrants and their descendants) present to “European culture”. This is most clearly visible with Vlaams Belang in Belgium adopting a strongly pro-Israeli stance and courting Belgian Jews, whilst bringing anti-immigration politics to the heart of the Belgian political system. Similar trends have been visible to some extent in other countries such as Sweden, Denmark and the UK. This has, in turn, led to divisions in the “Counter-Jihad” movement, with influential right wing American bloggers breaking with their European counterparts on the basis of the historical anti-Semitism of these European populists, whilst the European anti-Muslim voices are more willing to rehabilitate far-right groups, giving parties like the Sweden Democrats and Vlaams Belang the benefit of the doubt that they have put any racist (or at least antisemitic) tendencies behind them. http://uit.no/getfile.php?PageId=1410&FileId=1337 (PDF)



If you take time to read the PDF, you find it very enlightening


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 27, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> What the link doesn't say is that the to the best of my knowledge, the Vlaams Belang were the first European far-right party to renounce anti-semitism, replace with Islamophobia, and adopt a pro-Israel (Likud-Herut) stance, after deliberate outreach from the Counter Jihad Europa Project.
> http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/CounterJihad_Europa
> 
> Expert on the Counter Jihad Project Toby Archer explains in this document:
> ...



Does this mean that zionist interference in european politics is helping to shift the political axis of the far right and thus giving them a new lease of life, a modern form?


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## MellySingsDoom (Jul 27, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Does this mean that *zionist interference* in european politics is helping to shift the political axis of the far right and thus giving them a new lease of life, a modern form?


 
Sigh....I wish you'd worded that just a smidgen better -d'you mean "interference" from specifically certain Israeli politicians etc, or others?

As for the "switch" from anti-Semitism to Islamophobia from the "New Right", I've noted that this was taking place in the 90's from certain quarters (didn't some of the Front National lot begin to do this in thhe late 90's?) - see also the former Yugoslavia wars etc, where certain types would barrack for eg. the Croatian "nationalists" against Bosniaks.  Also, with the benefit of history, it's quite notable too that when Nick Griffin won leadership of the BNP from John Tyndall, he began to purge their focus on "world conspiracy" and began to ramp up idealogical attacks on British Muslims - he was very well versed in this by the time his interaction in Bradford (arguably) helped significantly inflame tensions there, not long before the riots happenend...


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## The39thStep (Jul 27, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Sigh....I wish you'd worded that just a smidgen better -d'you mean "interference" from specifically certain Israeli politicians etc, or others?
> 
> As for the "switch" from anti-Semitism to Islamophobia from the "New Right", I've noted that this was taking place in the 90's from certain quarters (didn't some of the Front National lot begin to do this in thhe late 90's?) - see also the former Yugoslavia wars etc, where certain types would barrack for eg. the Croatian "nationalists" against Bosniaks.  Also, with the benefit of history, it's quite notable too that when Nick Griffin won leadership of the BNP from John Tyndall, he began to purge their focus on "world conspiracy" and began to ramp up idealogical attacks on British Muslims - he was very well versed in this by the time his interaction in Bradford (arguably) helped significantly inflame tensions there, not long before the riots happenend...


 
Isn't this part of the shift from racial to cultural nationalism ?


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## The39thStep (Jul 27, 2011)

Interesting that Searchlight are now demanding that the EDL be dealt with under counter terrorism strategy.


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## MellySingsDoom (Jul 27, 2011)

The39thStep - I'd certainly agree w/you that the "New Right" (particularly in Europe) have been banging the cultural nationalism (or perhaps more accurately, a "Europe A Nation") drum for at least a couple of decades now (longer, if you consider the influence of certain Euro-based "thinkers"), and that overt racism as a political movement in the UK had its day with the removal of Tyndall as BNP leader.  Is the EDL a "cultural nationalist" movement?  To some degree, yes, as they wish to see a return to "English culture" and a removal of what they see as political and cultural "Marxism".  How that squares though with Yaxley-Lennon and co's assertion that all Islam (and thus all UK-based Muslims) are "radical", and that they "don't belong here", I'm (genuinely) not sure on though....but the "cultural nationalism" idea has certainly gained ground here in the mainstream (look at the Mail and Express articles on immigration, "culture" etc etc, for example, not to mention less-than-temperate remarks from MPs, commentators etc), and ain't going away any time soon....


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## malatesta32 (Jul 27, 2011)

A (Far) Right Mess by ‘Malatesta’
Dear, oh dear, oh dear. What a week it’s been for the English Defence League’s Tommy Robinson AKA Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Much of the UK media have been busy trying to finger the EDL for connections with nutjob Norwegian murderer Anders Breivik and with the EDL’s Facebook pages and web forums featuring tacit support for his ‘politics’ then it has proved to be not a difficult job. 

Twitching Tommy!
Tommy has been in the media this week, the best of which was on Newsnight with a bored looking Jeremy Paxman that showed Tommy to be a twitching sweaty coke fiend ranting away and having difficulty keeping his toys aboard the pram. Despite the EDL’s ludicrous claims to be a ‘non-violent, non-profit making, human rights organisation’ Twitching Tom had been found guilty earlier that day of football related violence. Something that Paxman failed to mention. Tommy was sentenced to a 12-month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours of unpaid work and was banned from football grounds for three years. Tommy was very keen on stressing that the Norwegian massacre could happen in the UK in 5-10 years time if anti-Islamic sentiment keeps being suppressed. Although he was a bit vague on how killing 76 white kids and blowing up a nice old building is going to help his ‘non-violent’ cause. One of the unsurprising things about fanatics like Breivik is that they are so often attracted to far right groups as are many others. Check here for further details. 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/nazis-jailed/

A couple of things come out of the BBC and other appearances. Firstly, after his arrest for public order offences a couple of months back Twitching Tommy’s bail restrictions stated that he was not to have anything to do with the EDL until the case comes up in October. Forgive one’s naivety but isn’t appearing on Newsnight representing the EDL somehow contrary to these conditions? And secondly, why is the BBC interviewing a career criminal who has done a year inside for assaulting a girl and also has been arrested at least 7 times since the start of 2009? As he is currently awaiting trial for other offences as well as being under investigation for fraud  – hence his bank account being frozen – should the BBC be featuring him on their flagship programme? Twitching Tom is currently asking for 50 quid a pop for any media interviews claiming variously that he needs the cash to rent a hotel conference room for meetings in Luton and that because of the limited access to his bank account he could do with half a ton pocket money (and isn’t 50 quid the going rate for a wrap of Charlie?) Tommy is rapidly becoming a general without an army as the North West Infidels appear to be heading off on their own and the North East Infidels are being steered into a more virulent direction by that other career criminal and arse clown Derek Fender. Read all about it here: 
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/the-inner-workings-of-edls-secret-groups

Meshuggenahs! 
The EDL got into a right kosher pickle recently when paper Jewish Divsion leader Roberta ‘EDL No’ Moore tried to link up with the Jewish Task Force whose leader had been in jail for terrorist offences. Oops! Moore was eventually booted out for making mental statements and generally being a PR liability. And now there are ongoing problems with her replacement Robert Bartholomeus who appears to be endorsing Breivik’s actions much to the irritation of the various EDL forum posters. 

After the Moore fiasco many on the EDL forums were angry that they should be seen to be supporting Israel when they were the ‘English’ Defence League. Tommy responded in no uncertain terms that EDL support for Israel would continue. Is this because of Alan Lake by any chance? Lake has been accused of being a Zionist and has been bankrolling Tommy for some time now and Lake, Moore and Tommy have all been photographed together. On the neo-Nazi websites accusations of being a ‘Zionist,’ ‘red’ or ‘nonce’ are frequently made and many have called the EDL a Zionist front and for once the accusation may prove true. If Lake is still funding Tommy then he’s hardly going to allow him to renounce one of his principle interests - which is Zionism. So although a lot of EDL members thought they were flapping the Star of David to annoy ‘muslamics’ the Star is now there for good and the EDL leadership, i.e., Tommy, is going to find it difficult to extricate himself from Israeli extremism. Paul Ray who was booted out of the EDL by Twitching Tom has been ranting away on his website about being a Knight’s Templar and attempting to link Breivik somehow to Alan Lake but this has yet to bear fruit. (And Knight’s Templar? That’s soooo 12th Century!).

Plodding Along
After all the hoo-hah over Norway British plod have decided to ‘crack down on far right terrorism’ but first they will have to finally admit that they were completely wrong in not classifying the EDL as a far right organisation. They are. The EDL is full of known supporters of the BNP, Combat 18 and other nutty fascist grupuscules and the documentation is extensive on antifascist websites. So maybe Plod should log on and do a bit more research.  With the recent exposure of ‘Mark Stone’ – and the much welcomed collapse of the trial of the eco-activists in Nottingham – it is clear that plod spend far too much time infiltrating left wing groups whilst apparently ignoring the far right.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/01/472363.html

Without getting involved in the general weirdness of the man, one of David Shayler’s concerns whilst at MI5 was their over focussing on the far left (Class War, Communist Party) whilst ignoring the far right. Plod have found themselves in a similar situation but this does not come as a surprise to antifascists: as many EDL members say on the forums the coppers at their demos are mostly sympathetic which is something that many counter-protestors can verify.  The EDL’s web forums and Facebook pages are full of violent threats, racist outpourings and generally deranged ranting so rather than nosing into left wing business shouldn’t plod be looking into the EDL on the web and perhaps even arresting Tommy who has breached his bail conditions by being all over the national media! Surely that would mean remand as he cannot be trusted to observe the conditions laid down by the court. So why are plod content to leave him alone? Is it because he works for them? Surely not. ‘Sir’Tommy is a hero. It says so on the EDL forums! 

Perhaps plod could also take a wee peak at the Redwatch site and the support it gets from some members of the EDL whilst they are logged on. This site is a potential hit list of political opponents used by far right groups to intimidate left wingers. Redwatch was started by Kevin Watmough, former member of BNP, Combat 18 and the useless British People’s Party, and onetime wet nurse to ex-NF coup leader Eddy ‘Adult Diapers’ Morrison. Watmough is a nasty little scrote and his address is not hard to find. Officers! Redwatch is a hitlist and the kind of thing that could be called a ‘far right terror threat.’ Ask any trade unionist or antifascist who have had their windows put through or received threatening phone calls because of it. 

As stated earlier the EDL still claim to be a ‘non-violent human rights group’ which Robinson’s recent conviction for, er violence, must repudiate. They have also been verbal against trade unionists and student protesting against the recent cuts. So for all their rhetoric about the white working class being ignored the EDL turn round and attack members of the white working class. As someone on Urban75 rightly says, the EDL are technically a scab organisation. 

And Finally ... 
Best article this week at Expose here: 
http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/8046023850/home-grown-breivik-to-be
Excellent. 
Malatesta: No Copyright
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 27, 2011)

> Originally Posted by Luther Blissett
> What the link doesn't say is that the to the best of my knowledge, the Vlaams Belang were the first European far-right party to renounce anti-semitism, replace with Islamophobia, and adopt a pro-Israel (Likud-Herut) stance, after deliberate outreach from the Counter Jihad Europa Project.
> http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/CounterJihad_Europa
> 
> Expert on the Counter Jihad Project Toby Archer explains in this document:







malatesta32 said:


> Tommy responded in no uncertain terms that EDL support for Israel would continue. Is this because of Alan Lake by any chance? Lake has been accused of being a Zionist and has been bankrolling Tommy for some time now and Lake, Moore and Tommy have all been photographed together. On the neo-Nazi websites accusations of being a ‘Zionist,’ ‘red’ or ‘nonce’ are frequently made and many have called the EDL a Zionist front and for once the accusation may prove true.


 
With the indications in the 2 above quotes in mind, can anybody elaborate further on how far the influence of zionist groups (ie, thru sponsorship) is influencing the direction of extreme right wing political groups in europe?


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## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2011)

yes


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## Pickman's model (Jul 27, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Interesting that Searchlight are now demanding that the EDL be dealt with under counter terrorism strategy.


 
not really, entirely predictable


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## malatesta32 (Jul 27, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> With the indications in the 2 above quotes in mind, can anybody elaborate further on how far the influence of zionist groups (ie, thru sponsorship) is influencing the direction of extreme right wing political groups in europe?


 
the 'malatesta's' have pointed this out before that for a lot of right wingers like the EDL, antisemitism is irrelevant as they have so little contact with jewish communities and for many people the orthodox jewish community - who attract the most virulent antisemitism - are simply not that visible in their towns. likewise, 'blacks' are alright cos of the afro-carribean community's contribution to popular culture and the assimilation of a lot of black guys into football firmslike birmingham zulus or man city's kool kats. what is left is what we call 'anti-paki' politics. see here: 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/bradford-‘anti-asianism’/
as for exact details Oik, it is hard to establish without a wee bit of forensic journalism etc.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 27, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Interesting that Searchlight are now demanding that the EDL be dealt with under counter terrorism strategy.


 
Steps, searchlight like the cops play up certain 'threats' for job creation and/or funding continuation. it maintains their existence. searchlight are professional 'antifascists' and it is a job for them. take away the 'threat' and no more job. some us antifascists do it for free!


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## audiotech (Jul 27, 2011)

Some anti-fascists also live for years under death threats.


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## pepe (Jul 27, 2011)

hello paroxetine/serotonin   i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe


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## treelover (Jul 27, 2011)

foil and tin come to mind...


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## laptop (Jul 27, 2011)

treelover said:


> foil and tin come to mind...


 
Or "self" and "aggrandising"?


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 27, 2011)

pepe said:


> hello paroxetine/serotonin   i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe


 
Hello Allan


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## Corax (Jul 27, 2011)

pepe said:


> hello paroxetine/serotonin   i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, *the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place,* they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe


 
 x lots


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 27, 2011)

I think I'd have noticed that.


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## Deareg (Jul 27, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think I'd have noticed that.


 
You were probably modding at the time.


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## Corax (Jul 27, 2011)

The liberal elite probably covered it up.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 27, 2011)

pepe said:


> hello paroxetine/serotonin   i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe


 
A _coup_ by anyone with an ounce of strategic and tactical _nous_ wouldn't go anywhere near Parliament. You'd cripple the transport and communications infrastructure. Why would anyone bother trying to invade an old building full of irrelevant dickheads and rubber-stampers?


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 27, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think I'd have noticed that.


 
Or Crispy would.

On his spycam.


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## audiotech (Jul 27, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> ...Why would anyone bother trying to invade an old building full of irrelevant dickheads and rubber-stampers?



The 23 effers did, in Spain, that started on 23 February 1981 and ended the next day on 24 February 1981 as a failure.


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 27, 2011)

Lets not derail with this troll.


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## Corax (Jul 27, 2011)

Trolls have to display a bit more plausibility. Pepe's in tinfoil-hat territory.


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 27, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> the 'malatesta's' have pointed this out before that for a lot of right wingers like the EDL, antisemitism is irrelevant as they have so little contact with jewish communities and for many people the orthodox jewish community - who attract the most virulent antisemitism - are simply not that visible in their towns. likewise, 'blacks' are alright cos of the afro-carribean community's contribution to popular culture and the assimilation of a lot of black guys into football firmslike birmingham zulus or man city's kool kats. what is left is what we call 'anti-paki' politics. see here:
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/bradford-‘anti-asianism’/
> as for exact details Oik, it is hard to establish without a wee bit of forensic journalism etc.



Yes, one reason for the extreme right dropping anti semitism can probably be traced to the disappearance of jewish ghettos, like londons east end up until the 40's. Their perceived presence has changed and in their place have come the next wave of immigrants in the form of pakistani muslims who now concentrate, to an extent in the east end, amongst other places, and are very visible, thus easier to target as a scapegoat. Also being unable to deny the Holocaust was an obstacle for the more traditional nazi lot.. 

This however does not explain why small but influential zionist groups would now want to back racist groups in europe. I would presume that it was a case of stirring anti muslim sentiment in order to justify Israels' policy towards the Palestinians and in the process undermine pro palestine movements/concepts in europe while at the same time gaining supporters for Israel to stave off any ideas of boicots like what happened with Apartheid in south Africa.

Given that during the Bush Blair era Islamaphobia has been cranked up incessantly and systematically thru media propaganda in an  attempt to demonise "the enemy" in a post cold war period and manipulate public opinion in favor of intervention in muslim countries, you would think that the dirty work had already been done.

It seems that the Bush agenda started the idealogical demonisation of muslims for its own ends and now certain zionist groups may have taken it upon themselves to widen the gammut.

I have no proof of this other than indications about Lake and Wilders and the above quotes in my previous post. I do however, see very clear indications of european non jewish journalists being bought to peddle Islamphobia while singing the praises of Israel and justifying that states' atrocities.


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## BlackArab (Jul 28, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> likewise, 'blacks' are alright cos of the afro-carribean community's contribution to popular culture and the assimilation of a lot of black guys into football firmslike birmingham zulus or man city's kool kats. what is left is what we call 'anti-paki' politics. see here:
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/22/bradford-‘anti-asianism’/
> as for exact details Oik, it is hard to establish without a wee bit of forensic journalism etc.



There was a lot more to it then just the interracial firms when it comes to football, are you forgetting the players or the non-hooligan black supporters? 

I would agree that black popular culture has made a large difference though, but the biggest difference, to put it bluntly would be the consumption of alcohol. This is a big influence in British social culture and the opportunity for breaking down barriers/getting to know someone is going to be a lot more difficult for people that avoid drinking and the culture that surrounds it. 

ps it was the Cool Cats


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## Pickman's model (Jul 28, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yes, one reason for the extreme right dropping anti semitism can probably be traced to the disappearance of jewish ghettos, like londons east end up until the 40's.


 which would explain why the far-right were so often explicitly anti-semitic until at least the 1990s? the disappearance of its prominence in recent years is more because they've found a new 'near enemy' than their main enemy having changed.


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 28, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> which would explain why the far-right were so often explicitly anti-semitic until at least the 1990s? the disappearance of its prominence in recent years is more because they've found a new 'near enemy' than their main enemy having changed.



Did you read the whole post?


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## Pickman's model (Jul 28, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Did you read the whole post?


 yes and i didn't see anything in there about the continuing anti-semitism of the far-right.


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## treelover (Jul 28, 2011)

'Last year, I spent four months undercover on EDL demonstrations, witnessing its growing popularity. At each demonstration I attended, I was confronted by casual racism, a widespread hatred of Muslims and often the threat of violence. But I also met non-white people, gay rights activists, disaffected working class men and women, and middle-class intellectuals. I came to the conclusion that the EDL is not a simple rerun of previous far-right street groups. And as we watch the BNP implode, we should be clear that the end of one far-right political party is not the end of the far-right threat in the UK, or across Europe.'


Matthew Taylor(Guardian) on the EDL, Q&A today 12.00 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/27/english-defence-league-q-and-a


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## Serotonin (Jul 28, 2011)

pepe said:


> hello paroxetine/serotonin   i've heard of these ppl, a para military movement, all serving and ex serving personnel, they started in 2002 when some militants from somewhere were going to petrol bomb a coffin with a dead soldier in it, from what i hear the government are very concerned about them, the police surrounded parliament with 800 armed police a few months back fearing a coup was taking place, they are routing out common purpose, demos, tavistock, fabians, very tight with a lot of political ppl and top brass. please don't mind the spelling errors, cheers pepe


 

Haha how many times a day do you spend googling your own name allan? You pathetic little fantasist.


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## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> which would explain why the far-right were so often explicitly anti-semitic until at least the 1990s? the disappearance of its prominence in recent years is more because they've found a new 'near enemy' than their main enemy having changed.


 
Or simply that the post war anti semitism was a dead end , as was simply overt anti black racism.We are now in a situation where some form of  racial and  cultural nationalism is pretty much the manistream content of the larger far right groups.


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## Ranbay (Jul 28, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/27/english-defence-league-q-and-a?INTCMP=SRCH

English Defence League: Q&A with Matthew TaylorThe Guardian reporter will be online for a debate about the EDL and the politics surrounding it from midday Thursday (UK time)


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2011)

audiotech said:


> The 23 effers did, in Spain, that started on 23 February 1981 and ended the next day on 24 February 1981 as a failure.


 
If you're honest, you'll admit that Spain and the UK aren't really comparable. They'd only had democracy for about 4-5 years when their _coup_ attempt happened. Invading parliament only makes sense if you *need* the symbolism, otherwise it's a waste of time and resources.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yes, one reason for the extreme right dropping anti semitism can probably be traced to the disappearance of jewish ghettos, like londons east end up until the 40's. Their perceived presence has changed and in their place have come the next wave of immigrants in the form of pakistani muslims who now concentrate, to an extent in the east end, amongst other places, and are very visible, thus easier to target as a scapegoat. Also being unable to deny the Holocaust was an obstacle for the more traditional nazi lot..



What a load of old horse-shit.

Sorry, but you haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

Jewish ghettos haven't "disappeared", they've evolved. Whereas when my great-gran came over, the majority of east-European Jews were piss-poor, and so lived in poor areas, nowadays they merely live in nicer communities. You still get us sticking together in little enclaves, though, just like any minority. We're still mostly in ghettos, it's just that we've had the bars of the cage gilded.



> This however does not explain why small but influential zionist groups would now want to back racist groups in europe. I would presume that it was a case of stirring anti muslim sentiment in order to justify Israels' policy towards the Palestinians and in the process undermine pro palestine movements/concepts in europe while at the same time gaining supporters for Israel to stave off any ideas of boicots like what happened with Apartheid in south Africa.



You're looking at Zionism as if it's a "Jews only" or "Israelis only" endeavour. It's far from that. There are far more Christian Zionists in the west than there are Jewish and/or Israeli Zionists, and where Jewish and/or Israeli Zionists tend to be motivated by an at least partially secular vision, the Christian Zionists are motivated by/justify their actions through the Bible.
It's hardly a massive intellectual leap to make to presume that there's cross-fertilisation between generally right to hard-right Christian Zionists (who are in turn on very friendly terms with Israeli nationalist-Zionists) and racist and nationalist groups across the west when their interests coincide, and the Christian Zionist strain has quite a bit more power and influence than Israel has (bear in mind that while Israel has strategic value, strategies can change).



> Given that during the Bush Blair era Islamaphobia has been cranked up incessantly and systematically thru media propaganda in an  attempt to demonise "the enemy" in a post cold war period and manipulate public opinion in favor of intervention in muslim countries, you would think that the dirty work had already been done.
> 
> It seems that the Bush agenda started the idealogical demonisation of muslims for its own ends and now certain zionist groups may have taken it upon themselves to widen the gammut.
> 
> I have no proof of this other than indications about Lake and Wilders and the above quotes in my previous post. I do however, see very clear indications of european non jewish journalists being bought to peddle Islamphobia while singing the praises of Israel and justifying that states' atrocities.


 
But that's been the case for sixty years. It's nothing much to do with anything else. Prior to September 11th, it was "the Arab threat", now it's "the Islamist threat", different veneers on the same policy of promoting Israel's right to exist.

And why promote that? Because Israel is and was a political and physical beachhead into a resource-rich part of the world.


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## audiotech (Jul 28, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> If you're honest, you'll admit that Spain and the UK aren't really comparable.



I agree, but loons... I'll re-phrase that, Colonel Blimps/fantasists, whatever their nationality, usually are.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I agree, but loons... I'll re-phrase that, Colonel Blimps/fantasists, whatever their nationality, usually are.


 
I'll concede that point.


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 28, 2011)

It's not a load of Horse... Jewish ghettos were much more "visible" and it was easier for say, the BUF, to stir up anti semitism on a local level. I think that there is a general rule that the newest poorest arrivals to britain are the ones who bear the brunt of racism. The more visible they are the worse they get it. 

Would you call a jewish Neighbourhood a ghetto nowadays?

It pays better for fascist organizations to target easier more "Popular" targets.

The anti muslim sentiment being stoked up in Britain is finding ground at a street level because of the "visibility" of its victims and their perceived lack of integration. The perception of Jews in Britain has changed tremendously since the 40's.

Sure, anti semitism persisted within the NF up until the 90's but I rarely came across it on the street/at school when I was living in London, late 70's early 80's. Racism was, however, rife, and was directed at blacks and Pakistanis. They had a slogan "_If you want a N for a neighbour, vote labour_" That just wouldn't have galvanized support for them if had referred to Jews.

What the fuck is a christian zionist?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2011)

Then no-conservative people in the US who support Israel for their own christian rapturists ends. You must have spotted them over the last 20 years? Since gulf war 1 at least?


----------



## audiotech (Jul 28, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Sure, anti semitism persisted within the NF up until the 90's but I rarely came across it on the street/at school when I was living in London, late 70's early 80's. Racism was, however, rife, and was directed at blacks and Pakistanis. They had a slogan "_If you want a N for a neighbour, vote labour_" That just wouldn't have galvanized support for them if had referred to Jews.



The slogan _If You Want a Nigger for a Neighbour, Vote Labour_ was adopted by the conservative candidate, one Peter Griffiths, in Smethwick, Birmingham, in the '64 general election. Posters with that slogan were put up around the area. It is unclear as to who was responsible?

The NF slogan in the 70's/80's was _Three Million Unemployed, Three Million Blacks_.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Then no-conservative people in the US who support Israel for their own christian rapturists ends. You must have spotted them over the last 20 years? Since gulf war 1 at least?


 
I don't want to get bogged down in this but surely they are Christians who support zionists rather than Christian Zionists?

I would prefer to get bck to my question about who is financing the EDL or sponsoring the far right in europe?


----------



## Random (Jul 28, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> I don't want to get bogged down in this but surely they are Christians who support zionists rather than Christian Zionists?
> 
> I would prefer to get bck to my question about who is financing the EDL or sponsoring the far right in europe?


 You can be a Protestant Irish nationalist, so why not a Christian Zionist nationalist?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> I don't want to get bogged down in this but surely they are Christians who support zionists rather than Christian Zionists?
> 
> I would prefer to get bck to my question about who is financing the EDL or sponsoring the far right in europe?


Same thing - and you asked.

You don't need to be looking for shadowy financiers, you need to look at social conditions and how dissatisfaction is being expressed (i.e deligimation of trad sources of authority - oddly enough leading to calls for them to be restored, breakdown of trad social methods of integration - parties, work, education,housing etc) of. Lake and people like that have no impact whatsoever on that.


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## treelover (Jul 28, 2011)

'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...xtremists-set-Sharia-law-zones-UK-cities.html


Choudary is at it again, he is going to use the massacre to stir up shit...

yes its the Mail but the stickers and his sentiments/plans are real...


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## past caring (Jul 28, 2011)

Did one of them push in front of you in the queue once, or something?


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## past caring (Jul 28, 2011)

That ginger Uncle Remus in the article, maybe?


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## audiotech (Jul 28, 2011)

Comments section:



> I am Muslim practicing and you might call me extremist because of the way I dress and I am disgusted with the small group behaviour ! They are only looking for Media attention! This group has been banned with a majority of Muslims in UK! They are about 20 peoples they are just looking for attention! Only DM will publish this! As they are jut as bad as them !


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 28, 2011)

Did anything come of that meeting (mentioned a few pages back) where 2 ex EDl were due to speak?


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## treelover (Jul 28, 2011)

be a good idea for Londoners to have a Burlesque street party in one of the areas...


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## treelover (Jul 28, 2011)

@PC

I was posting about Chaudary and his gang.


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## treelover (Jul 28, 2011)

Btw, in my time on the left I can remember many many times when one NF sticker or say a letter to my student union from C18 would cause hysterics amongst some of the left groups...

so why are people so dismissive of these ones, they cause fear and resentment as did the NF ones..


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 28, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> which would explain why the far-right were so often explicitly anti-semitic until at least the 1990s? the disappearance of its prominence in recent years is more because they've found a new 'near enemy' than their main enemy having changed.


 
you don't see any real shift? I mean up to the 90s most far right activists were neonazis, in the classic sense  of being Hitler worshippers (or at least the leadership positions were). I wouldn't say the majority of far right are neonazis anymore, and thus Jewish people aren't very high on their list of enemies.


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## treelover (Jul 28, 2011)

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/9165986.WALTHAM_FOREST__Extremists_plan_rival_protests/

Choudary and the EDL to march through Waltham Forest on saturday


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## audiotech (Jul 28, 2011)

treelover said:


> Btw, in my time on the left I can remember many many times when one NF sticker or say a letter to my student union from C18 would cause hysterics amongst some of the left groups...
> 
> so why are people so dismissive of these ones, they cause fear and resentment as did the NF ones..



C18 writing letters?


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## treelover (Jul 28, 2011)

ill fitting suits....


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## Kaka Tim (Jul 28, 2011)

treelover said:


> Btw, in my time on the left I can remember many many times when one NF sticker or say a letter to my student union from C18 would cause hysterics amongst some of the left groups...
> 
> so why are people so dismissive of these ones, they cause fear and resentment as did the NF ones..


 
Er.. because they are being siezed on by the mail as evidence of a 'mulsim takeover' - further feeding their shit stirring hate campaign. Why give this Chodray twat free publicity?


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> It's not a load of Horse... Jewish ghettos were much more "visible" and it was easier for say, the BUF, to stir up anti semitism on a local level. I think that there is a general rule that the newest poorest arrivals to britain are the ones who bear the brunt of racism. The more visible they are the worse they get it.



The BUF generally didn't have an easy time of it in the working-class areas, though. They were more successful in places like Brixton, which was mostly middle-classish between the wars, but had a small but noticeable Jewish community (noticeable because they were local employers etc).



> Would you call a jewish Neighbourhood a ghetto nowadays?



Insofar as the people that live there tend to live in a geographical community, yes. Just like the Black and Asian "ghettos", and like them, even once the people have moved up and away from the poverty and lack of options that originally put them in such an area, they often still choose to live in communities that reflect their ethnic allegiances. Unfortunately, ghetto is as much a mentality as a physical location.



> It pays better for fascist organizations to target easier more "Popular" targets.



Obviously, but that doesn't mean that the old targets aren't still attacked. Anti-Semitism didn't end in the late '40s with the arrival of the _Windrush_. I



> The anti muslim sentiment being stoked up in Britain is finding ground at a street level because of the "visibility" of its victims and their perceived lack of integration. The perception of Jews in Britain has changed tremendously since the 40's.



Anti-Muslim sentiment is gaining ground not just because of visibility or lack of integration, but because it suits the political narrative. They're the current "enemy within" that those in power can use as a diversion from the real reasons for poor services, scarcity of social resources etc, i.e. their own policies.



> Sure, anti semitism persisted within the NF up until the 90's but I rarely came across it on the street/at school when I was living in London, late 70's early 80's.



Let me guess, you're not Jewish? 
Believe you me, it was still there. The only boon of being Jewish was that if you didn't wear any obvious Jewish symbols/paraphenalia, the thick anti-Semite cunts didn't know "what" you were. Just made me more likely to have my "star of David" pendant in clear sight. 



> Racism was, however, rife, and was directed at blacks and Pakistanis. They had a slogan "_If you want a N for a neighbour, vote labour_" That just wouldn't have galvanized support for them if had referred to Jews.



That slogan was from the 1960s, and was coined by a Conservative prospective parliamentary candidate.
A lot of racism back in the '70s was to do with ignorance, though, not hate, it was about not understanding that someone could have a different culture, but be every bit as "civilised" as a white English person. A lot of the current shit the EDL and other racists trade in is also ignorance, although in the case of people like Yakmeat-Lemon, it's the willful ignorance of a politically-motivated person, not the ignorance of someone who's not _au fait_ with other cultures.
I've got no time for the willfully ignorant racists who want to "smash Islam", but I don't reckon giving a kicking to someone who's merely ignorant is going to work too well. How to tell the one from the other, though, That's a problem.



> What the fuck is a christian zionist?


 
Right-wing American Christians who support the state of Israel and it's disgusting policies so that they can speed up Judgement Day, the psychotic cunts.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2011)

treelover said:


> Btw, in my time on the left I can remember many many times when one NF sticker or say a letter to my student union from C18 would cause hysterics amongst some of the left groups...
> 
> so why are people so dismissive of these ones, they cause fear and resentment as did the NF ones..


 
The difference is that these "Shariah zone" stickers are being posted by a tiny minority of an ethnic minority as a "threat" to a massive majority. The NF stickers (the Asif one was "popular" in my neck of the woods, on just about every lamp-post and in just about every phone-box) were posted by people from the ethnic majority  and deliberately targeted racially-mixed neighbourhoods


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## audiotech (Jul 28, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> The difference is that these "Shariah zone" stickers are being posted by a tiny minority of an ethnic minority as a "threat" to a massive majority. The NF stickers (the Asif one was "popular" in my neck of the woods, on just about every lamp-post and in just about every phone-box) were posted by people from the ethnic majority  and deliberately targeted racially-mixed neighbourhoods



There were at its height 17,000 members of the NF too. Not all posting stickers of course, nevertheless, NF stickers and graffiti was in abundance. Then there was that W.I.S.E shit, linked to Dowager Lady Jane Birdwood. In addition, the milkman and British Movement crap to contend with.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2011)

audiotech said:


> There were at its height 17,000 members of the NF too. Not all posting stickers of course, nevertheless, NF stickers and graffiti was in abundance. Then there was that W.I.S.E shit, linked to Dowager Lady Jane Birdwood. In addition, the milkman and British Movement crap to contend with.


 
Now there's a blast from the past, old Birdbrain! Someone I wished a lonely death to more than once.


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## audiotech (Jul 28, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Now there's a blast from the past, old Birdbrain! Someone I wished a lonely death to more than once.



I have a picture of her speaking at a BNP outdoor rally in Dewsbury looking very lonely. Birdwood is now long dead of course. Hope that helps?


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## MellySingsDoom (Jul 28, 2011)

audiotech said:


> There were at its height 17,000 members of the NF too. Not all posting stickers of course, nevertheless, NF stickers and graffiti was in abundance. Then there was that W.I.S.E shit, linked to Dowager Lady Jane Birdwood. In addition, *the milkman* and British Movement crap to contend with.



Good grief, the poor man's Eddie Shoestring himself.  Even Ray "I'm not fash now, honest guv (well maybe just a bit)" Hill cut a more dashing figure than the Milkman from Mersey.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2011)

treelover said:


> Btw, in my time on the left I can remember many many times when one NF sticker or say a letter to my student union from C18 would cause hysterics amongst some of the left groups...
> 
> so why are people so dismissive of these ones, they cause fear and resentment as did the NF ones..


 
I'd never have guessed that was coming...


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## Paulie Tandoori (Jul 29, 2011)

treelover said:


> Btw, in my time on the left I can remember many many times when one NF sticker or say a letter to my student union from C18 would cause hysterics amongst some of the left groups...
> 
> so why are people so dismissive of these ones, they cause fear and resentment as did the NF ones..


Again, I'm slightly confused.

It's a reasonably well-known fact that one man with a lot of stickers can give the impression of a far wider distress, despite the patent lack of any actual threat.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I have a picture of her speaking at a BNP outdoor rally in Dewsbury looking very lonely. Birdwood is now long dead of course. Hope that helps?


 
I she the one who organised all that stuff against the miners' strike?


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## malatesta32 (Jul 29, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Now there's a blast from the past, old Birdbrain! Someone I wished a lonely death to more than once.


 
panda! sid williamson, arse clown extraordinaire actually boaked, on lady birdbath! read all about it in 'macmalatesta's' scabrous article! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/10/29/sid-williamson-is-back/
there is some debate on the EDL support facebook page as to whether lake still has anything to do with EDL. they are denying it. if anyone has any links with firm evidence can they post it?  as for the meeting with the 2 EDL clowns, they claimed they had been conned and that they were still EDL and they bailed. cant remember where that was posted tho!


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## antifa_hooligan (Jul 29, 2011)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=957_1311520002

a link to an interview with alan lake where he admits to give funding the EDL. Oh and his desire to execute muslims.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2011)

Twat though he is, he didn't say that did he? He said he'd be happy to execute people who want to overthrow the state and institute a sharia based system of law. I expect he would like to execute communists too. Where


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## antifa_hooligan (Jul 29, 2011)

he said he'd be happy to execute people 'like that' in the context of Islamic militants, so yes he did say it.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes, he said he wished to execute islamic militants - 'people like that', with 'people like that' being characterised as people who want to overthrow the state and institute a sharia based system of law. Not Muslims. Which is what you claimed. If you're going to cherry pick quotes from the vid the edl could just as easily use Lowles claim that Lake was far more 'extreme' and 'hardline' than the edl and that most edl people would never have even heard of him. Unless you're careful the attempt to link Lake to the edl can be thrown right back at you.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 29, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I have a picture of her speaking at a BNP outdoor rally in Dewsbury looking very lonely. Birdwood is now long dead of course. Hope that helps?


 
I knew she'd croaked. One less to worry about.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 29, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I she the one who organised all that stuff against the miners' strike?


 
I wouldn't say "organised", but she jumped on every right-wing band-wagon that came along from the end of the war till her death. She was probably most notorious for getting in there with McWhirter and his fellow tosspots at Grunwick.


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## barney_pig (Jul 29, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> I don't want to get bogged down in this but surely they are Christians who support zionists rather than Christian Zionists?
> 
> I would prefer to get bck to my question about who is financing the EDL or sponsoring the far right in europe?


No, you have got that completely wrong. Christian Zionism is absolutely not 'christians who support zionists' Christian zionism is a particular fundamentalist christian position that taking its cue from verses in Revelations that the 'end times' and rapture cannot take place until all the jews are gathered back in Israel whereupon they will either all be converted to christianity or killed depending on the sympathies of the reader.
 Christian Zionism is in no way incompatible with some of the most violent of anti semitic beliefs.


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## Corax (Jul 29, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> No, you have got that completely wrong. Christian Zionism is absolutely not 'christians who support zionists' Christian zionism is a particular fundamentalist christian position that taking its cue from verses in Revelations that the 'end times' and rapture cannot take place until all the jews are gathered back in Israel whereupon they will either all be converted to christianity or killed depending on the sympathies of the reader.
> Christian Zionism is in no way incompatible with some of the most violent of anti semitic beliefs.


 
Can you imagine what would happen if one of that lot got into some sort of position of power?!!?!


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## The39thStep (Jul 29, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> I knew she'd croaked. One less to worry about.


 
I came across her and two other elderly people giving out anti immigration leaflets outside the Wembley Town hall in the early 80s.


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## The39thStep (Jul 29, 2011)

The jewish ghetto arguement is interesting but it wouldn't explain why the BUF in the 1930s managed to build and gain support in areas that had few Jews. It did well in Anglia and the North East for example.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2011)

I think there's one large factor in 20th fascist anti-Semitism that's being missed here - it was often tied up with the soviet union, jews being the driving factor as part of the global conspiracy - the collapse of the USSR removed a key supporting strut of that approach. The fevered link making that these types love have now moved onto the 'liberal-elite', and the liberal elite are very definitely anti-Israel, therefore the strings must not be being pulled by ze jews anymore.


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## antifa_hooligan (Jul 29, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, he said he wished to execute islamic militants - 'people like that', with 'people like that' being characterised as people who want to overthrow the state and institute a sharia based system of law. Not Muslims.


#

so islamic militants arent muslim then? youre an idiot.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2011)

#

Of they're muslims, they're not _all muslims_ - which was _your_ daft claim was suggesting Lake meant.


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## treelover (Jul 29, 2011)

'Can you imagine what would happen if one of that lot got into some sort of position of power?!!?! 


Aren't some of the Tea Party Reps like that, endorsing The Rapture and eulogising the Israelis..


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## sihhi (Jul 29, 2011)

Just a random thought, does anyone know what EDL members think of Muslim - British(Non-Muslim) marriage?
Has the leadership ever spoken about it? I know they're very keen to stress mixed race members and mixed partners.


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## veltins (Jul 29, 2011)

sihhi said:


> Just a random thought, does anyone know what EDL members think of Muslim - British(Non-Muslim) marriage?
> Has the leadership ever spoken about it? I know they're very keen to stress mixed race members and mixed partners.



Honest answer – all the lads I know who support the edl couldn’t give a fuck what colour u are or who u r married to. I know that’s not the answer people on here are looking for or probably believe but it’s the truth in my experiance. Its not about colour its about culture. I and the lads I know and speak to genuinely feel threatened and are afraid for our kids future by the spread of islam and its ideology in this country. Now most reading this will say that is an unfounded fear and there lays the difference I suppose.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 29, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> The jewish ghetto arguement is interesting but it wouldn't explain why the BUF in the 1930s managed to build and gain support in areas that had few Jews. It did well in Anglia and the North East for example.


 
What does explain it is that a lot of those who donated to (as opposed to joined) the BUF were solidly bourgeois or upper class. Also, IIRC Dorril explained in "Blackshirt" that (in a scenario that was eerily re-enacted not too long ago w/r/t blood-sports and the Countryside Alliance) some rural employers/landowners enrolled their male employees as members of the BUF and insisted on them attending local speeches etc. 

Mosley oscillated wildly on anti-Semitism until he'd committed himself to fascism (if he can actually be said to have ever committed himself to anything other than self-worship), and his anti-Jewish rhetoric was pure Hitler - inspiring to those who already had an animus against Jews, but it didn't work to turn people against Jews, especially those who lived cheek-by-jowl with Jews in the so-called ghettos. IMO, the British working class have very little to apologise for w/r/t anti-Semitism. The so-called "higher classes", on the other hand...


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## Deareg (Jul 29, 2011)

veltins said:


> Honest answer – all the lads I know who support the edl couldn’t give a fuck what colour u are or who u r married to. I know that’s not the answer people on here are looking for or probably believe but it’s the truth in my experiance. Its not about colour its about culture. I and the lads I know and speak to genuinely feel threatened and are afraid for our kids future by the spread of islam and its ideology in this country. Now most reading this will say that is an unfounded fear and there lays the difference I suppose.


 

Strange then that all we ever seem to hear out of the mouths of EDL members and supporters is racist and right wing bile.


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## audiotech (Jul 29, 2011)

veltins said:


> Honest answer – all the lads I know who support the edl couldn’t give a fuck what colour u are or who u r married to. I know that’s not the answer people on here are looking for or probably believe but it’s the truth in my experiance. Its not about colour its about culture. I and the lads I know and speak to genuinely feel threatened and are afraid for our kids future by the spread of islam and its ideology in this country. Now most reading this will say that is an unfounded fear and there lays the difference I suppose.



Fear of the unknown. Have these "lads" you know ever taken the time to speak to a Muslim?


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## antifa_hooligan (Jul 29, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> #
> 
> Of they're muslims, they're not _all muslims_ - which was _your_ daft claim was suggesting Lake meant.



really? show me where I said anything of the sort. idiot.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2011)

antifa_hooligan said:


> really? show me where I said anything of the sort. idiot.



Here



antifa_hooligan said:


> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=957_1311520002
> 
> a link to an interview with alan lake where he admits to give funding the EDL. Oh and his desire to execute muslims.



Not exactly covering yourself in glory here are you?


----------



## sihhi (Jul 29, 2011)

veltins said:


> Honest answer – all the lads I know who support the edl couldn’t give a fuck what colour u are or who u r married to. I know that’s not the answer people on here are looking for or probably believe but it’s the truth in my experiance. Its not about colour its about culture. I and the lads I know and speak to genuinely feel threatened and are afraid for our kids future by the spread of islam and its ideology in this country. Now most reading this will say that is an unfounded fear and there lays the difference I suppose.



But if non-Muslim English people (of any colour) marry Muslims their kids will grow up as Muslims - in plenty of cases anyway.

That means Islam is spread into the future generation (the kids).


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 29, 2011)

veltins said:


> Honest answer – all the lads I know who support the edl couldn’t give a fuck what colour u are or who u r married to. I know that’s not the answer people on here are looking for or probably believe but it’s the truth in my experiance. Its not about colour its about culture. I and the lads I know and speak to genuinely feel threatened and are afraid for our kids future by the spread of islam and its ideology in this country. Now most reading this will say that is an unfounded fear and there lays the difference I suppose.


 
I live in an area with a mosque that produced a couple of our homegrown "Islamists". I used to live 100 metres from Balham mosque, and a couple of years later less than 50 metres from Streatham mosque (most of the early mosques were in cheap working class areas). I also grew up around Muslims and was even fostered by a Muslim family for 2 years, so I have a fairly good understanding of Islam, and of it's adherents. Most of them aren't interested in proselytising, or about forcing cultural segregation, they're interested in getting by, in their kids doing well at school, in not having people who haven't got a clue shouting in their faces about how all Muslims are suicide bombers or members of rape-gangs.

Me, I'm no more worried by Islam than I am by Catholicism or Hinduism. What I do worry about are extremists of any stripe, and they pop up whatever denomination or ethnicity you're talking about. It's not Islam you should be worried about, it's those who call themselves "Islamists".


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 29, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Fear of the unknown. Have these "lads" you know ever taken the time to speak to a Muslim?


 
This is what I always wonder, because I grew up around Muslims, Hindus, Christians of various sorts from High Anglican to pentecostal, and even given my own limited knowledge of Muslim (or, more accurately, north-eastern Pakistani transplanted to London) culture, I've never seen anything to fear. What I do fear is the wingnuts of any faith or ideology who twist words and ideas to suit their own agendas.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 29, 2011)

Pretty good discussion here. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/audio/2011/jul/28/focus-podcast-far-right


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## Paulie Tandoori (Jul 29, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> This is what I always wonder, because I grew up around Muslims, Hindus, Christians of various sorts from High Anglican to pentecostal, and even given my own limited knowledge of Muslim (or, more accurately, north-eastern Pakistani transplanted to London) culture, I've never seen anything to fear. What I do fear is the wingnuts of any faith or ideology who twist words and ideas to suit their own agendas.


Absolutely. We live opposite a small mosque, over the road there is a pentacostal church. Heck, we've even got Kurds, Turks and Cypriot-Turks living together peacefully. My mum and dad have been astonished and their views altered from staying up here over past few years, when they've realised that difference isn't something that, per se, causes problems or should be feared.

Fear of the wingnuts otoh....


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## Corax (Jul 29, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'Can you imagine what would happen if one of that lot got into some sort of position of power?!!?!
> 
> 
> Aren't some of the Tea Party Reps like that, endorsing The Rapture and eulogising the Israelis..


 
Did you sleep through Dubya?


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## audiotech (Jul 29, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Pretty good discussion here.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/audio/2011/jul/28/focus-podcast-far-right



This reminded me so much of a 'File on 4' programme I recorded over thirty years ago, that I still have on tape somewhere. Same subject matter: far-right groups; immigration; 'paki's'; Enoch Powell mentioned. Depressing.


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## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2011)

English Defence League EDL
The English Defence League will be attending the Norwegian Embassy on Saturday 30th at Belgrave Square at 2pm to lay roses to show our deepest sympathies to those who suffered at the hands of a monster. Let us stand in unity and defend humanity against extremism which must be opposed in all forms. We will always remember Norway in our hearts. 
Tommy Robinson


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## Corax (Jul 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> English Defence League EDL
> The English Defence League will be attending the Norwegian Embassy on Saturday 30th at Belgrave Square at 2pm to lay roses to show our deepest sympathies to those who suffered at the hands of a monster. Let us stand in unity and defend humanity against extremism which must be opposed in all forms. We will always remember Norway in our hearts.
> Tommy Robinson


 
Oh FFS.


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## Gingerman (Jul 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> English Defence League EDL
> The English Defence League will be attending the Norwegian Embassy on Saturday 30th at Belgrave Square at 2pm to lay roses to show our deepest sympathies to those who suffered at the hands of a monster. Let us stand in unity and defend humanity against extremism which must be opposed in all forms. We will always remember Norway in our hearts.
> Tommy Robinson


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 30, 2011)

Probably the least convincing PR stunt I've ever heard of.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Jul 30, 2011)

(((((Norway)))))


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## Gingerman (Jul 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> English Defence League EDL
> The English Defence League will be attending the Norwegian Embassy on Saturday 30th at Belgrave Square at 2pm to lay roses to show our deepest sympathies to those who suffered at the hands of a monster. Let us stand in unity and defend humanity against extremism which must be opposed in all forms. We will always remember Norway in our hearts.
> Tommy Robinson


Be nice if the Norwegian Embassy told them where to stick their roses.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 30, 2011)

Does Yak-Meat-Lemon (cheers for that name suggestion VP) include Norwegian Muslims in his 'tribute'?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 30, 2011)

It'll be a miracle if the Tommy Robinson Band even find the place - there be no pubs/"sherbert rooms" in easy reach from there.  Will they be "singing" "I'm (Vidkun) Quisling till I die?"


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 30, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> It'll be a miracle if the Tommy Robinson Band even find the place - there be no pubs/"sherbert rooms" in easy reach from there.  Will they be "singing" "I'm (Vidkun) Quisling till I die?"


 Along with that other old sidesplitting favourite "Who the fuck is Allah"


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> English Defence League EDL
> The English Defence League will be attending the Norwegian Embassy on Saturday 30th at Belgrave Square at 2pm to lay roses to show our deepest sympathies to those who suffered at the hands of a monster. Let us stand in unity and defend humanity against extremism which must be opposed in all forms. We will always remember Norway in our hearts.
> Tommy Robinson



*BUT*


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 30, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> Along with that other old sidesplitting favourite "Who the fuck is Allah"


 
Indeed.  Perhaps they could throw in a rendition of "White Lines" whilst they're at it?  Or a cheery Burzum number (where's Vikernes these days, anyway?).


----------



## sunny jim (Jul 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> English Defence League EDL
> The English Defence League will be attending the Norwegian Embassy on Saturday 30th at Belgrave Square at 2pm to lay roses to show our deepest sympathies to those who suffered at the hands of a monster. Let us stand in unity and defend humanity against extremism which must be opposed in all forms. We will always remember Norway in our hearts.
> Tommy Robinson


 
Amazing what sort of bollocks you can come up with when you're charlied up! They're fucking delusional!!


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 30, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> <snip> where's Vikernes these days, anyway?.



In jail again last I heard. He was arrested while on parole (or some sort of leave from prison) in a stolen car full of guns and stuff.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 30, 2011)

the EDL took a very bad PR kicking this week over norway/breivik connections and this is clearly an attempt to redress the balance somewhat. however, they will be affected by the association for some time and sadly, there are things on Everything EDL 'that may be used in evidence againsth them.' 
http://twitpic.com/photos/everythingedl
berks!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 30, 2011)

antifa_hooligan said:


> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=957_1311520002
> 
> a link to an interview with alan lake where he admits to give funding the EDL. Oh and his desire to execute muslims.



hoolie, edl in a tizzy over who this mysterious lake feller is! 
http://ukfd.org/topic/8930104/1/


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> In jail again last I heard. He was arrested while on parole (or some sort of leave from prison) in a stolen car full of guns and stuff.



Pretty sure that's not true. He's out and about blaming this Oslo stuff on jews.


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> the EDL took a very bad PR kicking this week over norway/breivik connections and this is clearly an attempt to redress the balance somewhat.
> http://twitpic.com/photos/everythingedl
> berks!


Only going to make them look like a bunch of crass insensitive opportunistic cunts.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2011)

The idea is not to counter MAC and do this instead so they look cool. Not heard it yet but loads of them where on talk sport last night with Galloway .... Should be a good listen.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2011)

http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4new99thj...ture=youtube_gdata_player&v=NqRYbZCDho4&gl=GB


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jul 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Pretty sure that's not true. He's out and about blaming this Oslo stuff on jews.


 
This sounds/is indeed right.  He's out (on parole) and released a "return to metal" CD a while ago (with an initial front cover, that in light of Vikernes' oft-expressed homophobia, was hilarious (much amusement was had on the "metal" boards too on this)).  I thought he'd disappeared to serve out his parole time, but knowing His Lordship's penchant for publicity, it was only going to be a matter of time before he blamed you-know-who to the nearest reporter to hand.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 30, 2011)

George Galloway pwns a dumb EDL member!


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2011)

There's more if you go to his other vids


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 30, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> George Galloway pwns a dumb EDL member!


EDL daryl robson to be investigated over allegations to do georgie boy over. (and georgie dont do the left many favours) robson's been at the centre of a micro-hubub with tommy and then tommy denied he ever knew him and then, oops, a photo of them together appears. as well as being politically clueless and semi-literate all these antics seem to suggest they are desperate for their 15 minute in the media despite the fact that the media are 'muslamic commies.' small men. 

http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/i...robe-edl-death-threat-to-george-galloway.html


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 30, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Does Yak-Meat-Lemon (cheers for that name suggestion VP) include Norwegian Muslims in his 'tribute'?


 
One strongly suspects that to his ilk, Muslims have no actual nationality, no allegiance to anything except Islam.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Pretty sure that's not true. He's out and about blaming this Oslo stuff on jews.


 
Mmmm, it's always our fault in the end.

Mwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2011)

Drat those pesky jews.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 30, 2011)

once again the EDL think that any publicity is good publicity! 
http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/...l-the-airtime-edl-are-getting-theres-a-shame/
they never learn that the ONLY publicity they get is negative. also, the tommy robinson band are at the norwegian embassy at 2 in a sympathy grabbing publicity stunt as eejit choudhary and MAC is marching in leytonstone (if they actually turn up). slough (!!!!) casuals have told folk to stay away from the march but essex casuals will no doubt make an appearance and no doubt hook up with sir tommy.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 30, 2011)

oh dear! some are getting stroppy over being told not to go chat with MAC.

http://twitpic.com/5y5cln/full

one of them wants to go 'kick the shit out of pakies.' is this an asian pikey?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Fear of the unknown. Have these "lads" you know ever taken the time to speak to a Muslim?


 
Good question to ask posters on here. 

I must say that before 9/11 I never even thought about neighbours or  people at work as Muslims and had very few conversations about religious beliefs  at all.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 30, 2011)

I followed up the Galloway radio programme link. Here's another part where he fires both barrels at an EDL knuckledragger over the Norwegian terrorist attack.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 30, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Good question to ask posters on here.
> 
> I must say that before 9/11 I never even thought about neighbours or  people at work as Muslims and had very few conversations about religious beliefs  at all.



It was clearly directed at the one poster who stated he knows some "lads" in the EDL, so not you.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 30, 2011)

Press Release: Who Is This Tommy Robinson?


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> oh dear! some are getting stroppy over being told not to go chat with MAC.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/5y5cln/full
> 
> one of them wants to go 'kick the shit out of pakies.' is this an asian pikey?



Interesting that those voices are being shouted down on that thread, it seems some at least are still trying to maintain a seperation between them and the traditional far-right.


----------



## TheDave (Jul 30, 2011)

Any time I read those Twitpic Facebook links it makes me cry bloody tears over the quality of the English written by the SO CALLED English Defence League.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 30, 2011)

EDL leader Lennon admits to a crank caller that he intends to break bail conditions at Tower Hamlets.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> EDL leader Lennon admits to a crank caller that he intends to break bail conditions at Tower Hamlets.


 er... breaking (police) bail conditions not a crime, not sure about if they're imposed by a court.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 30, 2011)

Roberta Moore, Robert Bartholomeus, Hel Gower, and our very own Arthur have a massive spat.

http://4freedoms.ning.com/forum/top...up:255&id=3766518:Topic:59642&page=2#comments


----------



## Fingers (Jul 30, 2011)

And what happened at the Norwegian Embassy today

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edls-sick-norway-publicity-stunt


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jul 30, 2011)

Fingers said:


> And what happened at the Norwegian Embassy today
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edls-sick-norway-publicity-stunt


.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2011)

audiotech said:


> It was clearly directed at the one poster who stated he knows some "lads" in the EDL, so not you.


 
Still a good question.
 Do you know any?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Press Release: Who Is This Tommy Robinson?


 
Shite website.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2011)

Shite message, he is supposed to be everyman - no one who might be interested cares who he really is.


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 30, 2011)

Fingers said:


> And what happened at the Norwegian Embassy today
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edls-sick-norway-publicity-stunt


So they were  basically told to fuck off then?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> So they were  basically told to fuck off then?


 

From what i read the cops moved in a told them to do one.


----------



## laptop (Jul 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> From what i read the cops moved in a told them to do one.


 
Reported at the above link that, also:


> An Embassy spokesman described the gesture as 'absolutely insensitive and morally dispicable'.



(Though I assume the Norwegian's English spelling is better than that...)


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 30, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> er... breaking (police) bail conditions not a crime, not sure about if they're imposed by a court.



Absolutely no idea, i'm not a law man. I do hope he does go, & gets a jolly good fuckin' kickin'


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Absolutely no idea, i'm not a law man. I do hope he does go, & gets a jolly good fuckin' kickin'


 
i remember once being attacked by a couple of yuppies outside a pub in north london. before i knew what was happening, the yups were getting what bernie grant would have called a bloody good hiding off a load of casuals. when the police arrived the casuals were gone, but the word was that the yups got another hiding - it seems they 'fell down' the notoriously slippery steps of finchley police station. so in principle there's nothing to stop yer man getting several hidings, off different groups of people.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 30, 2011)

Fuck the 'so called' EDL.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Fuck the 'so called' EDL.


 
fuck all the edls, the 'official' and the 'so-called'


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 30, 2011)




----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Still a good question.
> Do you know any?



Not personally no. You?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Not personally no. You?


 
If you want to do glib answers, have a guess. You're what -  76 years old. Use your experience to talk to the youth.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> If you want to do glib answers, have a guess. You're what -  76 years old. Use your experience to talk to the youth.



I do and have sonny.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> If you want to do glib answers, have a guess. You're what -  76 years old. Use your experience to talk to the youth.


 
he's 76?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I do and have sonny.


 
yeh? could you try and make it relevant on this thread?


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

Hey up the gangs back from the pub.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I do and have sonny.


 
The results speak for themselves


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

I've spoken with more youth and actually organised young people in a constructive, creative way, with politics than you'll ever know in your fucking life-time matey. Keep on driving around in the car with your five BA's won't you.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

Brooom broom!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I've spoken with more youth and actually organised young people in a constructive, creative way, with politics than you'll ever know in your fucking life-time matey. Keep on driving around in the car with your five BA's won't you.


the old ones are the best


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> the old ones are the best



Shouldn't you be out attending self-defence classes in case you happen upon a couple of yuppies.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Shouldn't you be out attending self-defence classes in case you happen upon a couple of yuppies.


 
i don't know what time zone you're in, but here it's almost 0130. if you're 76 shouldn't you have taken your warfarin and gone to bed?


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

Aspirin does the trick, you ageist, public school educated fuckwit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Aspirin does the trick, you ageist, public school educated fuckwit.


as you've got it wrong about the 5 BAs and the car what makes you think you've got it right this time? go to bed old man. and try a load of paracetamol tomorrow.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

*taps nose*


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> *taps nose*


 
nothing in other words.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Hey up the gangs back from the pub.


 
speak for yourself.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

One important distinction though Pickman's I don't drink alcohol.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> One important distinction though Pickman's I don't drink alcohol.



You're a star


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> One important distinction though Pickman's I don't drink alcohol.


 nor do i, you daft twat. it's not as though i've kept that a fucking secret.

i wish you would drink, tho. you give teetotallers a bad name.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

Hic! In the pub you daft twats.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Hic!


 

I love your dignity here.

Can anyone find it?


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

SEe mY EdiT. Goodnight.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

You can't even be wrong right


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2011)

I love you guys.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 31, 2011)

Aussie fascists seem to be having a hard time of it as well

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/martin-brennans-immigration-issues


----------



## smokedout (Jul 31, 2011)

coppers doing their bit to promote understanding in this vid:


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 31, 2011)

http://soundcloud.com/for-the-anti-edl-massive/antichrist-zones-only


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Not personally no. You?


 
Yes.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 31, 2011)

smokedout said:


> coppers doing their bit to promote understanding in this vid:


 
The exchange of views on the video is the sort of thing that should be encouraged.


----------



## audiotech (Aug 1, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> as you've got it wrong about the 5 BAs and the car what makes you think you've got it right this time? go to bed old man. and try a load of paracetamol tomorrow.



Just popped in. What a crap edit. So you would like to see me commit suicide? Pretty low even by your standards.

As I have a condition that's sometimes referred to as "suicide headaches" your words might turn out to be prophetic yet? I'm fighting hard not to though.



> Our patients were disabled by the disorder and suffered from bouts of pain from two to twenty times a week. They had found no relief from the usual methods of treatment. Their pain was so severe that several of them had to be constantly watched for fear of suicide. Most of them were willing to submit to any operation which might bring relief." Thus, cluster headaches are also known by the nickname "suicide headaches".



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_headache

However, I'm not a complete twat and I am aware that you are in no way aware of my health problems and why would you be? So, I'll give you an opportunity here and now to redeem yourself.

Over to you Pickman's?

Btw, I'm not, as you term, an "old man" and even if I was, so what?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2011)

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Takeaway-targeted-mob/story-13044293-detail/story.html

Plymouth EDL "meet and greet" goes wrong.


----------



## burnleyite (Aug 1, 2011)

HUH????? white people actually against the EDL? am i seeing stuff?


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 1, 2011)

burnleyite said:


> HUH????? white people actually against the EDL? am i seeing stuff?



Please clarify.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2011)

burnleyite said:


> HUH????? white people actually against the EDL? am i seeing stuff?


 
We're all black actually.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2011)

burnleyite said:


> HUH????? white people actually against the EDL? am i seeing stuff?


 
Let's be clear, the edl is a colour thing then in your view? A race thing?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2011)

only someone in the EDL would be stupid enough to not notice the majority of the country think you are cunts.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2011)

Banned, obviously.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 1, 2011)

Don't you think there might be some mileage in keeping these people on here, to argue with? (Unless they say something explicitly racist etc)????


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2011)

No.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 1, 2011)

Great argument.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2011)

It wasn't an argument.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 1, 2011)

No, that's my point.


----------



## krink (Aug 1, 2011)

ban them!! there's plenty of their own forums to debate with them if you think it's worthwhile.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 1, 2011)

Is it not productive at all to debate with them?


----------



## krink (Aug 1, 2011)

yes it can be but not here. they just come here to take the piss as has been shown previously. i say debate them on their own forums if you wish.


----------



## krink (Aug 1, 2011)

even then I'm not sure it can be productive, to be honest.


----------



## skitr (Aug 1, 2011)

They all turn into bellends on here eventually, even if they look like they might be useful to debate with.


----------



## TheDave (Aug 1, 2011)

skitr said:


> They all turn into bellends on here eventually, even if they look like they might be useful to debate with.


 
You've just described about 70% of the posters on this board.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 1, 2011)

TheDave said:


> You've just described about 70% of the posters on this board.


 
well exactly!


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2011)

TheDave said:


> You've just described about 70% of the posters on this board.


 
Which is why i have 70% on ignore


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 1, 2011)

If you ignore them, do they just go away though? I have no time for these morons but isn't it better to show them up for the arseholes they are?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2011)

you just get, 

This message is hidden because ******* is on your ignore list. 

it's a handy way of not wasting your time reading the same shit from the same idiots.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 1, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> you just get,
> 
> This message is hidden because ******* is on your ignore list.
> 
> it's a handy way of not wasting your time reading the same shit from the same idiots.


 
I realise that; what I meant was... we occasionally get a new poster who gets banned immediately before any dialogue. I understand that many are trolls, seeking some kind of gratification but is a ban always the case? Have there ever been new posters who have been challenged and explained themselves or their reason for posting here?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2011)

Oh i agree, i would rather them stay and get banned after they say something racist etc.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2011)

Actually, the poster concerned has just emailed to say he was being sarcastic. Fair enough, we're going to let him back on.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2011)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2011)

(N.B. this does not of course indicate any sort of policy change regarding banning EDL trolls.)


----------



## burnleyite (Aug 1, 2011)

Thanks FM... for unbanning me (my own stupid fault)

Sorry peeps was a purely sarcastic comment, first time I have stumbled across this board and the most I normally post on is the comments page in my local paper after an incident concerning anyone asian, seems to bring out a band of narrow minded rascists who like to take the opportunity to stereotype muslims, therefore after stumbling across you lot a group who can see through the whole edl/blame muslims for everything, I was pleasantly surprised. This is just an example.. 

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u..._brutally_beaten_for_his_mobile_phone/?ref=mc 

Anyway HELLO everyone!


----------



## Fingers (Aug 1, 2011)

Bit more about last night's events in plymouth

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/meet-greet-fiasco-in-plymouth


----------



## Gingerman (Aug 1, 2011)

burnleyite said:


> HUH????? white people actually against the EDL? am i seeing stuff?


 
See yah,wouldn't want to be yah.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2011)

They have kicked out the Plymouth deputy RO after the news in todays papers...

Damage already done


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 1, 2011)




----------



## Crispy (Aug 2, 2011)

burnleyite said:


> Anyway HELLO everyone!


 
Hello!


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 2, 2011)

burnleyite said:


> Thanks FM... for unbanning me (my own stupid fault)
> 
> Sorry peeps was a purely sarcastic comment, first time I have stumbled across this board and the most I normally post on is the comments page in my local paper after an incident concerning anyone asian, seems to bring out a band of narrow minded rascists who like to take the opportunity to stereotype muslims, therefore after stumbling across you lot a group who can see through the whole edl/blame muslims for everything, I was pleasantly surprised. This is just an example..
> 
> http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u..._brutally_beaten_for_his_mobile_phone/?ref=mc


 
EDL supporters are very active on comments pages of local papers after articles like the one linked above and it can unfortunately give an impression that their ideas are mainstream. Youtube is another place that's full of them (All with BNP links if you look at their profile). It's one of the front lines that needs to be adressed rather than ignored as it is part of the psychological war on these racists to take on their perceptions/lies wherever they spring up. They cannot be allowed to think they represent "The silent Majority".

In the same newspaper there is news of EDL who occupied a football pitch in order to provoke a reaction from locals who usually use it. 

It's one that was missed on here by our intelligence gatherers.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...brawled_on_Blackburn_football_pitches/?ref=ms

I wonder what the EDL would make of this from the comments section below the football match fight article.



> NelsonAsianButProudBritish , says...
> 10:33pm Sat 16 Jul 11
> Just in case anybody here was interested in a viewpoint of an asian person from Nelson on this,here it is.If any asians in Blackburn are making the non asians feel like they are unwelcome in a family park,then they are wrong and out of order. Simple. There's nothing to debate about it. Despite all the problems we have in Nelson, there has never been an incident of this kind on a football pitch. Absolutely ludicrous. We went to play football a few years back on a pitch, when we got there there was 12 white lads playing, guess what we did? OMG shock horror we waited until they finished i'm so ashamed i didnt think of a mass brawl.what a bunch of idiots.The EDL may not help there cause,but my do we not half do the same.Save me the sell out/traitor part please,i am a proud proud musilm in every sense,behaviour like this i just cannot ever condone or be proud of.This is Britain, it is British leave it so,Islam is in our hearts and in the privacy of our own homes,not on walls or more buildings or segretated community centres.We either want to carry on living here in peace, or make life so difficult for ourselves we have to leave the greatest country in the world from a freedom of rights perspective.Just everyone stop the madness please for humanity's sake.


----------



## BlackArab (Aug 2, 2011)

Good points AO. Another good point coming through the comments is how the LT appears to sensationalising reports like this, something else than needs addressing.


----------



## burnleyite (Aug 2, 2011)

The LT is a daily paper, therefore it needs as much crap as it can get hold off to fill its pages with, in East Lancs thats very difficult. The irony is that the vocal readership seem to think that the LT is actually in favour of the asian/muslim community lol


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 3, 2011)

EDL Latest Fiascos by ‘MacMalatesta’

Crivvens, Jings and Help Ma Boab! Whit a week it’s bin. The EDL got a dreadful kicking in the media last week over the alleged connections with the Norwegian murderer Anders Breivik and spent inordinate amounts of energy denying it. Then folk on their forums said ‘actually, I met him/ had him as a friend’ on Facebook. Former EDL member Paul Ray was cited as an ‘influence’ on Breivik and Norwegian plod announced they wanted to interview him. Ray has subsequently been on Al Jazeera denying all knowledge of Breivik but no doubt revelling in the 15 minutes of media fame which everyone in the EDL vanity operation is so desperate for. Ray was booted out of the EDL by ‘Sir’ Tommy Robinson in the early ego clashes (much to our amusement) and spends his days greeting into his laptop aboot Tommy and his uncle ‘Kocaine’ Kev Karrol on his ridiculous Lionheart blog (which also features his Knights Templar obsessions and has a great pic of  him praying at some daft shrine or other!). The man’s a bampot and widnae know his bawbag fae a haggis! 

Incidentally, EDL forum posters have started to refer to Tommy as ‘Sir Tommy’ as if Her Maj is going to knight an ex-convict woman beater who is under investigation for fraud amongst other things. Last week on some radio show Tommy of the ‘non-racist, non-violent’ EDL was quizzed about being found guilty for violence at a Luton football game that day to which he replied that he was ‘appealing’ as if this implies he is therefore not-guilty!  Tommy was sentenced to a 12-month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours of unpaid work and was banned from football grounds for three years. That’s a Big Guilty! 

MAC Lads? 
But that’s not all. At the weekend to try to show the world that they have nothing to do with right wing extremists the EDL sent a delegation to the Norwegian Embassy to lay a wreath in honour of the slain wee ones. This completely backfired: the Norwegians telt them tae get tae fuck and the media saw it as the crass publicity stunt it so clearly wis! Not only that but on the same day Anjem Choudhary’s March Against Reality eejits were marching from Leytonstone to Walthamstow so the EDL leadership warned people to stay away from it as the EDL could not afford any more negative publicity that week. This caused enormous outrage on the forums with some stating that the EDL was set up to counter Choudhary in the first place. Tommy, still reeling no doot from all the negative coverage, did not want to give the press any more ammunition. Of course, a tiny EDL mob turned up on the way to abuse MAC which caused a wee flutter in the Walthamstow Guardian. Apparently the EDL prevented Shariah law from being implemented in their pub and then went back to their beer and crisps (bacon flavoured, of course!). Apart from that, the demos passed off in their usual tedious manner and no doubt Choudhary  was upset because he gained so little publicity. The MAC and the EDL are 2 sides of the same eejit: vanity projects for deluded failures. As usual, the EDL think that because anti-fascists are against the EDL then they must therefore support MAC. Naive. 

However, the demo further amplified the dissatisfaction of many EDLers with Tommy’s leadership ‘style’, i.e., distant, media hungry and kleptocratic, with someone over on the UKFD forum actually offering a leadership challenge. It is difficult not to compare this to the recent BNP leadership challenge which was manipulated right from the start. There is no way Tam is going let anyone take over his bean feast and the EDL conveniently have no elected officials or formal membership – or coherent manifesto – so his position is secure. However, this also means anyone can split off to become little Tommies to their own diminishing regional coteries as happened with the North East and North West Infidels. Oh dear! 

To make matters even more hilarious Billy ‘Bunter’ Baker of the English Nationalist Alliance has slung his greasy fez into the slurry calling for unity! This occurs on an extremely regular basis on far right web forums and it never works. The far right rely on quantity not quality and the inevitable eejits and bams all join up with their own agendas. It always ends in tears!  Readers may recall Bunter being humiliated in Brighton a couple of times recently alongside the fact that Tam booted him out of the EDL after a televised debacle! Poor Chubs! Well he is now claiming that the ‘failure of the New World Order’ (bit 90s that Fats!) can be rectified by uniting the EDL and ENA. Which we all believe of course. Bilbo Bawbag also has his eye on taking the helm of an increasingly moribund ‘patriots movement.’ Although Tommy’s ego was no doubt boosted by all his media appearances last week he is looking increasingly isolated with the general fragmentation of membership and the flash demo tactic which render him pretty unnecessary. He will no doubt be flogging his cute little burkahs and hoodies whilst he can still coin it from the increasingly less gullible EDLers. 

All Plymouth & No Troosers! 
As if all this hasnae put the wind up Tam, - Breivik, the embassy debacle, the guilty verdict, the fragmentation – last weekend’s events in Plymouth caused even more embarrassment for the leadership. In case you didnae know, Plymouth EDL had a meet and greet (literally a greet later!) on Sunday when things got massively oot of hand after they got steaming and ‘stormed’ a kebab shop terrifying the family who run it. Apparently, ‘Muslamic militants’ had been spotted hiding in the taramasalata. This is almost too embarrassing to repeat but we will anyway. After trashing the shop and intimidating the folk there it ended with plod turning up with dogs and tasers and multiple arrests. The EDL are claiming they got a bit of a hoofing off plod and a night in the cells to boot. EDL ‘angel’ Hayley Wells was nicked which was all over Twitter/Facebook with even her mum getting involved, slagging her daughter off for going oot on the lash and fighting instead of looking after her bairns! Her Ma wis affrontit! Read all about it on the excellent Everything EDL site. 
http://twitpic.com/5zilg6

The leadership of course claimed it had nothing to do with the EDL. Tam, if the Plymouth EDL have a meet and greet and then the Plymouth EDL get pissed and attack a kebab shop, then it is the EDL who are to blame! Proscribing them after the event does not really wash. Another little grupuscule also emerged from this outrage: The Combined Ex-Forces (whose regimental motto is ‘Don’t Panic!’ Don’t Panic!’) have withdrawn from the EDL citing ‘slanderous remarks’ made against them by the leadership. From what we can gather the CxF are a tiny bunch of survivalist scrubland shitters who like to camp it up wildly after a long day ‘defending OUR COUNTRY’ and ‘OUR CHILDREN’S FUTURE’ and all that. For more read this: 
http://twitpic.com/5zz62k

E-E-Eejits! 
And it just goes on! This weeks’ Hapless Halfwit Award goes to Martin Brennan of the Australian Defence League who is currently imprisoned in Oz for being an illegal alien. This is irony on too massive a scale to make any further jokes about so you’ll have to do that yourselves. In case you don’t remember the ADL gathered a mere 30-40 beer swilling patriots at their inaugural demo - despite the fact Brennan boasted they had 1,400 members. They were then surrounded by over 200 antifascists who stopped their demo very early and sent them away with a flea in their ear. We can only assume that the key tenet of the ADL is to stand with the Aboriginal peoples to defend Australia from any further colonial domination! See our friend Slackbastard down under for more details! 
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=25302

So ... 
August 13th sees a possible to-do at Telford when Jeff ‘Stabber’ Marsh and his Casuals are attempting to get their 15 minutes on Sky. There is, as everywhere else, much local opposition and we are hoping it will be every bit as successful as the washout in Irvine was last weekend. Have a peep at a handful of fuckwits up North in a shopping precinct not knowing whit tae dae!  

To be honest, when the EDL first lurched drunkenly into the light anti-fascists were a bit unsure how to confront them. What now seems clear is that we don’t bother. We just have to sit in the pub and let the infighting and egomania consume them as they flail around looking for a future, hopelessly divided, badly led and politically naive. Braw! 
‘MacMalatesta’: No Copyright
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## Ranbay (Aug 3, 2011)




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## malatesta32 (Aug 3, 2011)

hmm just read the transcript bob. not entirely sure of body language being accurately read in a tv studio as they are pretty intimidating places anyway and put people on edge. but caxley-trousers blatantly lie about daryl hobson and when he bleats on abaht non-violent paxo shd have hit him with the fact hed been found guilty that day of violence. perhaps antifascists shd compile an idiot list of edl facts for fuckwit BBC researchers to actually look at. oy!


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## BlackArab (Aug 3, 2011)

malatesta, all credit for your blogs and stuff, I'd find it a lot easier if didnt read like an Irvine Welsh book, I keep expecting Begbie to turn up and glass Tommy for being a wee gadge or whatever.


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## krink (Aug 3, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> Last week on some radio show Tommy of the ‘non-racist, non-violent’ EDL was quizzed about being found guilty for violence at a Luton football game that day to which he replied that he was ‘appealing’ as if this implies he is therefore not-guilty!  Tommy was sentenced to a 12-month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours of unpaid work and was banned from football grounds for three years.


 
I bet he doesn't appeal. He got away with not going to jail and if his appeal is unsuccessful they could even increase his sentence and give him time(if I remember that right).


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## past caring (Aug 3, 2011)

Maybe the Jock malatestas can only write in Jock?


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2011)

krink said:


> I bet he doesn't appeal. He got away with not going to jail and if his appeal is unsuccessful they could even increase his sentence and give him time(if I remember that right).


 
Yep. Appeals can go either way.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 3, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> malatesta, all credit for your blogs and stuff, I'd find it a lot easier if didnt read like an Irvine Welsh book, I keep expecting Begbie to turn up and glass Tommy for being a wee gadge or whatever.



ha ha thanks BA! its macmalatesta not malatesta who did this 1. his grasp of the Queen's English is typical of the colonial!!!! and apprarently its radge - unpleasant - rather than gadge - a feller!!!


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 3, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> ha ha thanks BA! its macmalatesta not malatesta who did this 1. his grasp of the Queen's English is typical of the colonial!!!! and apprarently its radge - unpleasant - rather than gadge - a feller!!!


 
Is it possible to provide a translation please for the LutherBlissetts who run most everything they read through google translate,


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## BlackArab (Aug 3, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> ha ha thanks BA! its macmalatesta not malatesta who did this 1. his grasp of the Queen's English is typical of the colonial!!!! and apprarently its radge - unpleasant - rather than gadge - a feller!!!



Aha! for one minute I thought you had a split personality or had discovered your inner Rab. C. Nesbitt.


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 3, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> hmm just read the transcript bob. not entirely sure of body language being accurately read in a tv studio as they are pretty intimidating places anyway and put people on edge. but caxley-trousers blatantly lie about daryl hobson and when he bleats on abaht non-violent paxo shd have hit him with the fact hed been found guilty that day of violence. perhaps antifascists shd compile an idiot list of edl facts for fuckwit BBC researchers to actually look at. oy!


 
Possibly not, but the flickering tongue of EDL snake Yaxley Lennon Robinson deserves to be spliced together from all his interviews into one long tongue fest.


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 3, 2011)

In other news, Robert Spencer, beloved of EDL and Breivik, speaks to Pat Robertson, who informs us that Islam predates Christianity by 8 centuries.


Here's Paul Ray on Robertson's CBN in 2008 (3.33m)


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## tony1945 (Aug 3, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> no way did the edl turn over a uaf stall, what happened was the uaf were campaigning in oldham and got a fantastic response from locals who queued up ten deep to sign a petition, resulting in the sheer weight of the petitions collapsing the stall.


 united against freedom were goosed!! E e edl!!!


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## tony1945 (Aug 3, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


>




Dont worry we will save your children from being raped and murdered!! E E EDL THEN WE WILL START ON YOU.!!!


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## Blagsta (Aug 3, 2011)

We got a live one!


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 3, 2011)

E E E's been banned.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 3, 2011)

Slightly concerned that they aim to start raping and murdering people, though. That sounds a little off-message.


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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 3, 2011)

lol


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Slightly concerned that they aim to start raping and murdering people, though. That sounds a little off-message.


 
EDL financier, speech writer and all-round helpful guy Alan Lake promised that in an EDL-future world, (paraphrased) 'appeasers and traitors will be forced into enclaves - if they sneak out, we'll execute them'. Sound familiar?


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Slightly concerned that they aim to start raping and murdering people, though. That sounds a little off-message.


 
Although not necessarily in that order.


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## Das Uberdog (Aug 3, 2011)

UAF reports Alan Lake ditched... http://uaf.org.uk/2011/08/edl-racists-and-fascists-ditch-shadowy-strategist-alan-lake/


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## Corax (Aug 3, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> and apprarently its radge - unpleasant - rather than gadge - a feller!!!


 
Radge means mad, unhinged, crazy, rather than unpleasant.  Unless I was lied to when I lived up that way...


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## sunny jim (Aug 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> E E E's been banned.


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## MellySingsDoom (Aug 4, 2011)

Das Uberdog said:


> UAF reports Alan Lake ditched... http://uaf.org.uk/2011/08/edl-racists-and-fascists-ditch-shadowy-strategist-alan-lake/


 
If this is indeed the case, will "Tommy Robinson", Kev Carroll et al continue to take a "pro-Zionist"/"pro-Israel" stance?  I was always under the impression that it was Mr Lake's views/influence on "Zionism" that helped shape EDL's "policy" on this specific issue...


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## treelover (Aug 4, 2011)

Stephen Lennon was interviewed on our local News TV programme in relation to the EDL coming back to Yorkshire at some point, he was much more assured and confident than he was on Newsnight..


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## Ranbay (Aug 4, 2011)

http://www.itv.com/yorkshire/edl10129/


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## trampie (Aug 4, 2011)

Clue up a Welsh boyo, whats the crack with the EDL ?, do they think they are part of the master race ??? or are they just anti Muslim or something ?

Is the National Front still knocking about these days and what about the BNP ?, are right wing extremists more of a problem in England than in the past ?, England has always generally been right wing, are the English more right wing at the momment than in the past ?, I notice that the three main Westminster parties in England, Tories, Lib-Dems and 'new' Labour are all right wingers, throw in the BNP and UKIP and you realise that the English electorate have no choice, in Wales and Scotland at least the electorate have a choice and can elect a social justice party if they like, also the likes of Welsh Labour are not as right wing, compared to the Westminster Labour party.

I notice there seems to be lots of posts about English right wingers on this message board and wondered what are todays right wingers in England all about are they like the Nazi's ?


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## Teaboy (Aug 4, 2011)

trampie said:


> Clue up a Welsh boyo, whats the crack with the EDL ?, do they think they are part of the master race ??? or are they just anti Muslim or something ?
> 
> Is the National Front still knocking about these days and what about the BNP ?, are right wing extremists more of a problem in England than in the past ?, England has always generally been right wing, are the English more right wing at the momment than in the past ?, I notice that the three main Westminster parties in England, Tories, Lib-Dems and 'new' Labour are all right wingers, throw in the BNP and UKIP and you realise that the English electorate have no choice, in Wales and Scotland at least the electorate have a choice and can elect a social justice party if they like, also the likes of Welsh Labour are not right wingers like the Westminster Labour party.
> 
> I notice there seems to be lots of posts about English right wingers on this message board and wondered what are todays right wingers in England all about are they like the Nazi's ?


 
Clearly you've never encountered the mighty Welsh Defence League.  It turns out that there's wankers everywhere, they walk amongst us.


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## trampie (Aug 4, 2011)

No never heard of them, there are lots of English people in Wales {looking for a better life and nearly all love it here}, so what is the story is the EDL Nazi types {master race} or not ?


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## DotCommunist (Aug 4, 2011)

less soherent, they don't do nazism or even flirt with it, they are pro isreal (because israelis kill muslims ). There are assorted ex football hoolies failed loyalists and other pondlife amongst the upper echalons. In the main it is old fashioned 'paki bashing' dressed up as a fight for our culture against sharia law. BNP connections are denied on both sides, but then they would. As for older far right organisations like NF I think they have ideological disagreements with them


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## trampie (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks Dot, when the much respected Dafydd Elis-Thomas was the Welsh Assembly's presiding officer, he refused to meet an Israeli ambassador, saying that Israel had failed to meet its international obligations towards the Palestinians, I cant imagine an English MP of equally high standing taking a stand like, the English right wingers do seem to love the fascist Zionists, there again the make up of England is different to Wales, there are hardly any Jews in Wales percentage wise compared to England {come to that there is not many Catholics or Muslims in comparison either}.


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## Fingers (Aug 4, 2011)

The Jewish Division are getting upperty again

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/jewish-division-goes-banana-republic


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## Ranbay (Aug 4, 2011)

The wheels are falling off all over the place....


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## trampie (Aug 4, 2011)

Historical question, who let the Jews back in this country, they were expelled at one time werent they {just asking like}.


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## Belushi (Aug 4, 2011)

Cromwell, though some Sephardic Jews were already here pretending to be Portugese Catholics.


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## Belushi (Aug 4, 2011)

trampie said:


> there again the make up of England is different to Wales, there are hardly any Jews in Wales percentage wise compared to England {come to that there is not many Catholics or Muslims in comparison either}.


 
IIRC there were anti-Jewish riots in the Valleys in the 1920's


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## trampie (Aug 4, 2011)

What did they do ?


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## Spymaster (Aug 4, 2011)

trampie said:


> Thanks Dot, when the much respected Dafydd Elis-Thomas was the Welsh Assembly's presiding officer, he refused to meet an Israeli ambassador, saying that Israel had failed to meet its international obligations towards the Palestinians, I cant imagine an English MP of equally high standing taking a stand like .....


 
Of course you can't. 

Welsh politicians are just _better people_ than English politicians.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 4, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Of course you can't.
> 
> Welsh politicians are just _better people_ than English politicians.


 
Well, some of them are *vaguely* socialist, Spy.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 4, 2011)

trampie said:


> What did they do ?


 
Ran all the banks and made matzoh with the blood of Christian babies, iirc.


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## BlackArab (Aug 4, 2011)

Belushi said:


> IIRC there were anti-Jewish riots in the Valleys in the 1920's



also anti-black riots in Butetown/Tiger Bay area, 1919.


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## Red Storm (Aug 4, 2011)

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/08/483013.html?c=on#c271463

Don't know if anyone has spotted this on Indymedia but it looks fake. This hasn't been posted by anyone from Manchester Anti Fascist Alliance and there is no proof of the NWI coming to Manchester on Saturday.


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## trampie (Aug 4, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> also anti-black riots in Butetown/Tiger Bay area, 1919.


Wasnt that when the soldiers came back from France having been fighting the Germanic hordes in WW1 only to apparently find some of their jobs and houses had been taken. 

There was riots in Cardiff in 1910 after the Peerless Jim Driscoll v Freddie Welsh {Thomas} fight.
The mix of valley commando's from the Ponty area and Irish immigrants from the docks was too much, especially considering the way the fight went {a DQ and an away win for the commando's}.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Ran all the banks and made matzoh with the blood of Christian babies, iirc.


 
Fucking tasty it is too!


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## Corax (Aug 4, 2011)

At least it's not halal.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/08/483013.html?c=on#c271463
> 
> Don't know if anyone has spotted this on Indymedia but it looks fake. This hasn't been posted by anyone from Manchester Anti Fascist Alliance and there is no proof of the NWI coming to Manchester on Saturday.


it doesn't say it was posted by mafa. i suppose there isn't such a group as manchester alliance is there?


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## BlackArab (Aug 5, 2011)

trampie said:


> Wasnt that when the soldiers came back from France having been fighting the Germanic hordes in WW1 only to apparently find some of their jobs and houses had been taken.
> 
> There was riots in Cardiff in 1910 after the Peerless Jim Driscoll v Freddie Welsh {Thomas} fight.
> The mix of valley commando's from the Ponty area and Irish immigrants from the docks was too much, especially considering the way the fight went {a DQ and an away win for the commando's}.


 
_Cardiff race riots, 1919 Scene of the first credible declaration of black British identity

In June 1919 the black communities of London and other seaports such as Cardiff faced an explosion of race riots. Their response was to defend themselves vigorously, and, when offered repatriation, to reply that they were British citizens.

The black reaction to those events was to define the multiracial nature of cities such as Cardiff for the next century. Later generations of black activists and liberal campaigners were to draw on their experience in outlining the unique type and content of Britain's present-day multiculturalism. If black Britain has a history, then the Cardiff race riots were one of its most important events.

The anti-black riots that spread through British ports that spring were associated with the demobilisation of the armed forces after the first world war, a period of economic crisis in which black populations became the scapegoats. In Newport on June 6 white mobs wrecked so many properties that, according to the South Wales Argus, the city looked as if it had suffered an air raid. The riots were at their most virulent in Cardiff. By June 11 they had developed into a series of organised attacks in the centre of the city and, in particular, on Bute Town, where most of the black population lived. Hotels and lodging houses were besieged by mobs led by "colonial" (Australian) soldiers armed with rifles, who presented themselves as leaders of the action._

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2006/jul/24/past.britishidentity


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## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2011)

out of curiosity, do you have any examples of black communities in the uk defining themselves as not british?


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## BlackArab (Aug 5, 2011)

trampie said:


> There was riots in Cardiff in 1910 after the Peerless Jim Driscoll v Freddie Welsh {Thomas} fight.
> The mix of valley commando's from the Ponty area and Irish immigrants from the docks was too much, especially considering the way the fight went {a DQ and an away win for the commando's}.



Just had a read of this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/9144411.stm 

'the brawl spilled out onto Westgate Street..' some things never change


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## trampie (Aug 5, 2011)

You'll be reading about Jim Driscolls funeral attended by 100,000 people next, BlackArab.


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## BlackArab (Aug 5, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> out of curiosity, do you have any examples of black communities in the uk defining themselves as not british?



I don't have any to hand but there's been quite a lot printed on the subject available. I would say up to the 90s it was fairly common amongst black British people to not _feel_ British. Mainly caused by rejection, alienation and non-acceptance of black British (or any BME) by the British.


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## BlackArab (Aug 5, 2011)

trampie said:


> You'll be reading about Jim Driscolls funeral attended by 100,000 people next, BlackArab.



done


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## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2011)

Corax said:


> Radge means mad, unhinged, crazy, rather than unpleasant.  Unless I was lied to when I lived up that way...


 

thanks you to all those expressing concern over the excessive caledonian overtones of the recent malatesta piece: 'normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.' M


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## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> If this is indeed the case, will "Tommy Robinson", Kev Carroll et al continue to take a "pro-Zionist"/"pro-Israel" stance?  I was always under the impression that it was Mr Lake's views/influence on "Zionism" that helped shape EDL's "policy" on this specific issue...


 
melly, re: lake. as usual there were a few classic 'no he wasn't ... i mean yes he was ...' prevarications from the EDL - like the richard price PR disaster 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/edl-latest-from-february/
the truth is yet to fully come out on alan lake. what we have sort of established is that 
the EDL recently denied being funded by him; 
then they said he did fund EDL at the start; 
lake also admitted he funded them earlier;
lake was photo'd with tommy and roberta moore. . 
the problem is clarifying how long that funding continued and if it still continues to this day. we pointed out tommy's reaction to the anti-israel strain of the EDL here: 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/07/27/edl-norway/
when the EDL bleated about being English not Israeli tommy clearly stated support would continue. any info more that welcome!


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## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> also anti-black riots in Butetown/Tiger Bay area, 1919.


 
BA, you got any more sources about this? M


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## BlackArab (Aug 5, 2011)

http://leeds.academia.edu/EylemKano...d_Factors_Regarding_the_Race_Riots_in_Britain includes sources

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tiger-Bay-Story-Neil-Sinclair/dp/0953085902 Very good history of the area from an academic who grew up there even appearing as a child extra in the film Tiger Bay so pretty authentic and well worth a read. 

A reading into the riots will explain some of the reaction the EDL faced when they went to Cardiff. Folk memory runs deep.


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## Ranbay (Aug 5, 2011)

Was there, Last June it was, they had a shock i can tell you.


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## BlackArab (Aug 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Was there, Last June it was, they had a shock i can tell you.



From the minute it was announced I smiled


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## Ranbay (Aug 5, 2011)

Was great, there was 1,000+ people there, old ladies, Docks boys, young familes and even Soul Crew lads  all telling them to fuck off. 







and maybe 100 of them, tops


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## Corax (Aug 5, 2011)

A much more genuine expression of Welsh culture than anything on the racial traits thread perhaps.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 5, 2011)

Interesting Nazi salute going on at the bottom right of the second picture.


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## Ranbay (Aug 5, 2011)

Nah he wanted a Taxi honest.


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## BlackArab (Aug 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Nah he wanted a Taxi honest.



A friend of mine claimed this excuse when he was caught doing the same pose in a photo with a group of mates. I'm also in the photo, he's mixed-race and now stuck with the nick-name Nazi Dan.


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## Ranbay (Aug 5, 2011)

Whole thread on the Cardiff demo here if anyone is bored.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...-demo-Cardiff-Saturday-5th-June?highlight=edl


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## Ranbay (Aug 7, 2011)

htttttp://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/edl-tower-hamlets-update/

*EDL Tower Hamlets update*

6 08 2011
*After a meeting yesterday the MET have agreed that we can march through Tower Hamlets, along Whitechapel Road and Mile end road, past the East London Mosque which regularly hosts preachers of hate. They are aware that certain elements of UAF/Anarchists are intent on causing trouble but have assured us that these people will be kettled and kept away from the route of the march.*


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## Corax (Aug 7, 2011)

I thought they weren't talking to the rozzers any more?


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## Ranbay (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm not even 100% sure it's true that staement....


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## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I'm not even 100% sure it's true that staement....


bob, this is another example of the EDL completely misunderstanding the array of opposition against them. they think UAF, MAC and militant antifascists are one and the same. UAF will be willingly kettled in, any local muslim youth up for it will know the streets better than plod or EDL and outmanouevre them, militant antifascists will do as we always do and keep on the move in small groups well out of any kettling possibility. Corax! they always say they aint talking to no rozzers then do and are impeded in their activities or dont and are impeded in their activities. macmalatesta suggested the EDL change their name to the carpark defence league (NCPDL?). what are the parking facilities like in tower hamlets? my suggestion is 'EDL: neither racist nor violent but both!'


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> htttttp://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2011/08/06/edl-tower-hamlets-update/
> 
> *EDL Tower Hamlets update*
> 
> ...



Smells like bollocks.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 7, 2011)

They will have one cop each to look after them, but i dont think that will help if they march, the only way they will get in and out safe is if they have a static and get bussed in and out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Smells like bollocks.


reckon you're right. if this was the route it would have the assembly point. seems to be a wind-up


----------



## BlackArab (Aug 8, 2011)

I wonder if the march will be allowed to happen now after the weekends events.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 8, 2011)

The EDL trolled a RIP page for the guy that was shot and also put this stament out....







So i'm sure that went down well with the people.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 8, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> I wonder if the march will be allowed to happen now after the weekends events.



Good question. Probably not.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 8, 2011)

It's a different kind of looting @EDL. The taxpayer has to cough up for the cost of policing their demos and local shopkeepers lose trade.


----------



## treelover (Aug 8, 2011)

'The taxpayer has to cough up for the cost of policing their demos and local shopkeepers lose trade'.

Instead of their livelihoods with the looters....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 9, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/636hp1

<holds head in hands>


----------



## krink (Aug 9, 2011)

it just got reported on radio 5 that some kid in Glasgow has been bagged for talking up a riot on facebook. so how come they never nick edl posters who talk about burning mosques and killing muslims?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 9, 2011)

@robbo555 EDL are out in South London right now. I'm getting loads of word about it.

EDL out in parts of South London. I have this confirmed.

EDL, BNP, groups of old school football hooligans with Combat 18 histories congregating for tonight.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 9, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> @robbo555 EDL are out in South London right now. I'm getting loads of word about it.
> 
> EDL out in parts of South London. I have this confirmed.
> 
> EDL, BNP, groups of old school football hooligans with Combat 18 histories congregating for tonight.



I await reports of fat-bellied boneheads being shipped to hospital by the cart-load with something approaching glee.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 9, 2011)

I somehow suspect you'll have to wait until the TH march comrade! If plod allow it to go ahead.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> I wonder if the march will be allowed to happen now after the weekends events.


unless something utterly cataclysmic happens then it will go ahead.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2011)

krink said:


> it just got reported on radio 5 that some kid in Glasgow has been bagged for talking up a riot on facebook. so how come they never nick edl posters who talk about burning mosques and killing muslims?


perhaps griffin knew more than he let on when he gave out about the edl being a state-sponsored honey trap.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 9, 2011)

krink said:


> it just got reported on radio 5 that some kid in Glasgow has been bagged for talking up a riot on facebook. so how come they never nick edl posters who talk about burning mosques and killing muslims?


 
There have been at least four  number of neo nazis jailed for things they have posted on tinternet. Pickman has got the right end of the stick imo


----------



## past caring (Aug 9, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> @robbo555 EDL are out in South London right now. I'm getting loads of word about it.
> 
> EDL out in parts of South London. I have this confirmed.
> 
> EDL, BNP, *groups of old school football hooligans with Combat 18 histories* congregating for tonight.



If we didn't already know this was wank, the highlighted section confirms it as fantasy.


----------



## skitr (Aug 9, 2011)

#Enfield: 100 white men, 30s-40s, sprinting along Hertford Rd. Shouts of "Get the Pakis"

Sorry for the use of the word. Comes direct from Paul Lewis.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2011)

past caring said:


> If we didn't already know this was wank, the highlighted section confirms it as fantasy.



isnt that the Millwall etc lot in Eltham ? there definitely there, seen the photo


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 9, 2011)

Yes it's millwall in eltham... no edl presence .. confirmed by bbc tweets


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

juice_terry said:


> Yes it's millwall in eltham... no edl presence .. confirmed by bbc tweets



Glad there's no EDL presence but don't hold your breath. The way everything has played out, they, and the BNP are bound to get a lot of converts.

The inefficient police action last night will have sent many people into a state of fear. Fear pushes people to the right politically. Innocent people were attacked, not just property, and although the BBC are too scared to say so, the majority of the looters have been black and brown.

The EDL have been up and down the country desperately trying to provoke race riots. They needn't have bothered. They more or less have had a propaganda coup passed to them on a plate.

Brace yourselves for a right wing backlash.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 9, 2011)

Entirely agree with you there A-O.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 9, 2011)

just heard it's gone off in Eltham between Millwall and gangs of looters, mind you Eltham is a hotbed for the fash so expect the propoganda to follow


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 9, 2011)

> Think the hoodies have mobbed up as the word is that its the EDL/BNP in Eltham, Nick Griffin been tweeting that the english are taking the streets back in Eltham and bnp patroling the streets, so thats it it will be put down to the EDL/BNP from now on and not Millwall
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## past caring (Aug 9, 2011)

cantsin said:


> isnt that the Millwall etc lot in Eltham ? there definitely there, seen the photo



I don't do this facebook bollocks, but for those that do - ask these EDL muppets to name those who have "C18 histories" who are also "old school football hooligans". Initials will do. There's fuck all that meet that criteria in S. London. None at Millwall. There's loads of fucking internet fantasists though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 9, 2011)

past caring said:


> If we didn't already know this was wank, the highlighted section confirms it as fantasy.



Why wouldn't state assets want to get involved?


----------



## past caring (Aug 9, 2011)

juice_terry - you need to register to read the TAL boards. But the link itself ought to be sufficient to give the lie to the EDL bollocks (and some of the anti Millwall prejudices).


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2011)

clear edl chants at the end of this Eltham vid : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeX8y0JQNqI&feature=youtu.be


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

lovely comments under vid as usual


----------



## Red Storm (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKzXEc95Azc

England chants from anti-looters in Enfield.


----------



## albionism (Aug 9, 2011)

Looks like they were actually running with the riot police there.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKzXEc95Azc
> 
> England chants from anti-looters in Enfield.


is that not eltham??


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

albionism said:


> Looks like they were actually running with the riot police there.


same side basically


----------



## Red Storm (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm just going off the youtube video title. I have no idea if the title is correct.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

It is Eltham. They were chanting EDL. It's a shame the video maker hasn't worked out that 'big society' means himself and his community are being fucked over too. They have swallowed it and as per usual are not about to take their anger out on the establishment.


----------



## Red Storm (Aug 9, 2011)

Just spotted this video of the EDL apparently being kettled and arrested in Eltham

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlZZwjY3vY4&feature=player_embedded

Source: http://www.viceland.com/wp/2011/08/liveblogging-the-riots/


----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

local MP just been on the beeb saying it was the EDL as well


----------



## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

not supporting them but its revealing how many cops they can muster to stop this, but couldn't with the rioters..


----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

not really, it's somewhat easier to contain people when they aren't particularly trying to move


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2011)

Vid of EDL in Eltham....

http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

Here's the same lot. I don't think they were EDl although one group were chanting it earlier outside the pubs. They are football fans of various teams got together to patrol the streets cos their match was cancelled. If you feel intimidated by it then it's due to the lefts failure to engage in communities over the years thus leaving them open to right wing politics. One Rev Hack has even described these fans as lower middle class racists, the twat.

Take note that in the later videos of the same group they only chant "_England_". The majority obviously didn't want to be associated with the Edl much in the same way that people who go on anti cuts marches aren't all members of Trot groups.



Here's another group of vigilantes. This time armed. They are all the same colour and ethnic group but you won't hear people slagging them off because they are kurds and so beyond suspicion of harbouring unsavoury prejudices. I'll leave it to the Hack to place them in their appropriate class bracket.


----------



## albionism (Aug 10, 2011)

I wonder if the EDL will be praising the Turkish Muslims , Kurdish Muslims
and Bangladeshi  Muslims who saw off rioters in Hackney and Whitchapel.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

cantsin said:


> clear edl chants at the end of this Eltham vid : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeX8y0JQNqI&feature=youtu.be



Some fucking perspective, eh? A few in that crowd chanting EDL - hardly suprising that those fuckers would try to make some capital out of it. But both the other videos uploaded of Eltham clearly show black people as part of the crowd defending the area.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2011)

albionism said:


> I wonder if the EDL will be praising the Turkish Muslims , Kurdish Muslims
> and Bangladeshi Muslims who saw off rioters in Hackney and Whitchapel.



to be fair, the football one's I've come accross online ( Spurs)  have been supportive of the Kurds/WC Bangladeshi's /the Seikhs etc


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2011)

past caring said:


> Some fucking perspective, eh? A few in that crowd chanting EDL - hardly suprising that those fuckers would try to make some capital out of it. But both the other videos uploaded of Eltham clearly show black people as part of the crowd defending the area.



agreed , Eltham a mix of (probably majority )non EDL/ EDL  - the Enfield lot were defintitely racially mixed


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

typical liberal hysteria/fear of the white working class combined with the usual patronising of ethnics

armed turks/kurds take to the streets to protect their local businesses - huzzah

armed indians/sikhs take to the streets to protect their temples - huzzah

anarchists take to the streets so erm…they don't feel left out - huzzah

armed (with brushes) middle classes take to the streets to clean them up - huzzah

some white working class types take to the streets to protect their area - UGLY RACISTS!!!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> typical liberal hysteria/fear of the white working class combined with the usual patronising of ethnics
> 
> armed turks/kurds take to the streets to protect their local businesses - huzzah
> 
> ...


there is only one acceptable form of prejudice in britain today


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Vid of EDL in Eltham....
> 
> http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW



Did you bother watching it? Given that there are at least a couple of black blokes in that mob (the bloke running very close to the railings in the red trackie top with white sleeves, for one) and the only discernible chants are of "England" not "EDL" - what's your evidence of this being EDL?


----------



## albionism (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> typical liberal hysteria/fear of the white working class combined with the usual patronising of ethnics
> 
> armed turks/kurds take to the streets to protect their local businesses - huzzah
> 
> ...



When/where did anarchists take to the streets? Have not heard of this.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> typical liberal hysteria/fear of the white working class combined with the usual patronising of ethnics
> 
> armed turks/kurds take to the streets to protect their local businesses - huzzah
> 
> ...



agree in prinicple, but in reality do you think the Eltham lot were trying to get to Lewisham to sweep up broken glass ?


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

they were never going to lewisham in the first place - it was just more stupid twitter rumours (like the one about the catford cat being destroyed)


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

albionism said:


> When/where did anarchists take to the streets? Have not heard of this.



That was a clear hypothetical. How about dealing with the actual point being made?


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> they were never going to lewisham in the first place - it was just more stupid twitter rumours (like the one about the catford cat being destroyed)



video of Eltham lot being kettled at Yorkshire Grey Roundabout/trying to get to Lewisham according to the description :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlZZwjY3vY4&feature=player_embedded


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

@ pc - it's actually true mate

this from south london solfed



> PLEASE FORWARD WIDELY
> 
> emergency demonstration against the cuts which caused the riots. today (wednesday 10th) 6.30pm from the anchor, deptford high street, to lewisham town hall, catford.



this is also likely to be a predominantly white makeup and also marching towards/in lewisham, and also in response to the riots - doubt we'll see the same hysteria around this though


----------



## albionism (Aug 10, 2011)

@ Past Caring..Weren't that clear a hypothetical, sandwiched between
actualities.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> @ pc - it's actually true mate
> 
> this from south london solfed
> 
> this is also likely to be a predominantly white makeup and also marching towards/in lewisham, and also in response to the riots - doubt we'll see the same hysteria around this though



do you really, REALLY  think that the Eltham lot turning up in Lewisham late last night would have had the same effect as Solfed turning up ?


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

cantsin said:


> video of Eltham lot being kettled at Yorkshire Grey Roundabout/trying to get to Lewisham according to the description :
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlZZwjY3vY4&feature=player_embedded



cant' watch the video here - but there's a difference between a group of people walking down a street which happens to form the border between the borough of greenwich and the borough of lewisham - and the hysteria that was going around last night which was a gang of tooled up NF were marching into the centre of lewisham


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

cantsin said:


> do you really, REALLY think that the Eltham lot turning up in Lewisham late last night would have had the same effect as Solfed turning up ?



well if the eltham 'lot' had a stated intention of marching towards the centre of lewisham/catford then it would be different as we'd have to ask why they were doing that - but the simple fact is that they weren't and they had no intention of doing so - so pretending they were to post-rationalise a knee jerk repulsion of, and to, the white working class doesn't really help much (not saying you yourself are doing this, but this does seem to be the undertone going about various places)


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

cantsin said:


> do you really, REALLY think that the Eltham lot turning up in Lewisham late last night would have had the same effect as Solfed turning up ?



I doubt there would be the same mix of indifference and derision, no.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> well if the eltham 'lot' had a stated intention of marching towards the centre of lewisham/catford then it would be different as we'd have to ask why they were doing that - but the simple fact is that they weren't and they had no intention of doing so - so pretending they were to post-rationalise a knee jerk repulsion of, and to, the white working class doesn't really help much (not saying you yourself are doing this, but this does seem to be the undertone going about various places)


did you watch the video?
they were streaming up the main road and kettled on the yorkshire grey roundabout, which as i'm sure you know, is well on the way from eltham to Catford/Lewisham


----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> well if the eltham 'lot' had a stated intention of marching towards the centre of lewisham/catford then it would be different as we'd have to ask why they were doing that - but the simple fact is that they weren't and they had no intention of doing so


how do you know that? I've no idea whether they were planning/hoping to march anywhere, but I dont see that there is reall any eviodence either way.  It is quite _possible_ that they had every intention to do so.


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

ddraig said:


> did you watch the video?
> they were streaming up the main road and kettled on the yorkshire grey roundabout, which as i'm sure you know, is well on the way from eltham to Catford/Lewisham



http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/edl-watch.262722/page-133#post-10361180


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

belboid said:


> how do you know that? I've no idea whether they were planning/hoping to march anywhere, but I dont see that there is reall any eviodence either way. It is quite _possible_ that they had every intention to do so.



Well the stated intention (on facebook and the Millwall forum) was to "protect Eltham" - unless there's some credible evidence of an intention or an attempt to do something else, I'd be inclined to believe that _was_ the intention. You've already said that evidence doesn't exist - hasn't stopped others stating - without reservation - that they were off to Lewisham.


----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

I've said I havent seen any, which isnt the same as saying none existed. It could be somewhere other than facebook or youtube! The only non net 'evidence' I've seen is comments from the local MP (obviously someone whose word could never ever be doubted) who was also saying that a bunch of EDL had 'attached themselves' to the main body and were trying to whip them up. Truth in that? Fuck knows


----------



## ddraig (Aug 10, 2011)

e2a to LD
how can you state as fact that they weren't then?
were you there?


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2011)

past caring said:


> Well the stated intention (on facebook and the Millwall forum) was to "protect Eltham" - unless there's some credible evidence of an intention or an attempt to do something else, I'd be inclined to believe that _was_ the intention. You've already said that evidence doesn't exist - hasn't stopped others stating - without reservation - that they were off to Lewisham.



hold on, so what _is_ going on here then  ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlZZwjY3vY4&feature=player_embedded


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

belboid said:


> how do you know that? I've no idea whether they were planning/hoping to march anywhere, but I dont see that there is reall any eviodence either way. It is quite _possible_ that they had every intention to do so.



well i did say 'stated intention' in my post which was a reply to cantsin asking a specific question based on a hypothetical situation of two different groups of people with the stated intention of marching into central lewisham/catford- and it's perfectly clear there was no stated intention from anyone to march from eltham into the centre of lewisham last night

but my main issue is that lewisham & catford was rife with rumours last night about NF marching into the centre of lewisham. You will surely appreciate the significance/symbolism of such a thing and how things like this could lead to a racialising of what has up until now been squarely a social issue. And all this because of some knee jerk liberal screaming about seeing some white people doing the same as turks/kurds/indians/muslims/sikhs have been doing. It's bad enough with the actual EDL/BNP trying to inflame the situation and turn it into a cultural/race thing, so it doesn't really need it being further inflamed by liberal/middle classes/lefty prejudical flame stoking


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

cantsin said:


> hold on, so what _is_ going on here then ?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlZZwjY3vY4&feature=player_embedded



There's police blocking the roundabout and a group of about 15 blokes (there may have been more, but it's not possible to see) on one side walking along. Seems they'd have come down one road leading onto the roundabout and walked off down the next.

It's quite possibly evidence of OB being determined to prevent any attempt to get to Lewisham - it's not evidence of that being the intention.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> well i did say 'stated intention' in my post which was a reply to cantsin asking a specific question based on a hypothetical situation of two different groups of people with the stated intention of marching into central lewisham/catford- and it's perfectly clear there was no stated intention from anyone to march from eltham into the centre of lewisham last night
> 
> but my main issue is that lewisham & catford was rife with rumours last night about NF marching into the centre of lewisham. You will surely appreciate the significance/symbolism of such a thing and how things like this could lead to a racialising of what has up until now been squarely a social issue. And all this because of some knee jerk liberal screaming about seeing some white people doing the same as turks/kurds/indians/muslims/sikhs have been doing. *It's bad enough with the actual EDL/BNP trying to inflame the situation* and turn it into a cultural/race thing, so it doesn't really need it being further inflamed by liberal/middle classes/lefty prejudical flame stoking



do you believe they have been doing that ?


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

cantsin said:


> do you believe they have been doing that ?



Did you read his post before quoting it and asking the question? It's clear that he does - and after all, it would be surprising if they hadn't. What of it?


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

well rhetorically certainly - and every little helps


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

'Chasing Blacks'


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

Yes - a bloke does make a racist comment. Beyond that?

(would also be useful if you could post the url - neither the "Share" or "Go to video" options appear to work from these boards)


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

past caring said:


> Yes - a bloke does make a racist comment. Beyond that?
> 
> (would also be useful if you could post the url - neither the "Share" or "Go to video" options appear to work from these boards)


https://www.facebook.com/v​ideo/video.php?v=231598946​3095&comments


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

Cheers - as I thought, Enfield (news this morning said that there'd been some attempt to get those in Enfield defending the community into white t-shirts - which are obvious in the video - and the bloke who created the video is in Enfield).

Again, given the other evidence so far, I'm not sure what this is evidence of, other than a bloke making a racist comment?


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

past caring said:


> Cheers - as I thought, Enfield (news this morning said that there'd been some attempt to get those in Enfield defending the community into white t-shirts - which are obvious in the video - and the bloke who created the video is in Enfield).
> 
> Again, given the other evidence so far, I'm not sure what this is evidence of, other than a bloke making a racist comment?



Them running down the street screaming get the pakis? Or Griffin on twitter? Or any EDL on fb?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Other vids being posted:

http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

@ skitr - What the fuck are you on about? Have you read the last couple of pages?


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Other vids being posted:
> 
> http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW



One I've already commented on in this thread - there's shouts of "England" yes, _not_ EDL - and at least a couple of black lads who are part of that crowd.

Can you not just say something instead of pussy footing around?


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

past caring said:


> @ skitr - What the fuck are you on about? Have you read the last couple of pages?



I'm on about EDL/BNP inflaming the situation obviously, which they've been doing for several days. I took it to refer to the whole situation which is what it said, rather than Enfield/Lewisham/Eltham.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

skitr said:


> I'm on about EDL/BNP inflaming the situation obviously, which they've been doing for several days. I took it to refer to the whole situation which is what it said, rather than Enfield/Lewisham/Eltham.



Still can't work out why you quoted my post - which itself was a reply to the video rutita had posted.

I know this is a thread about the EDL in general, but the debate in the last couple of pages is about whether the EDL were the organisers of the events in Enfield and Eltham, or whether there was an attempt by some EDL to latch on to those events. And whether racism was an overtly motivating factor for the majority in attendance.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 10, 2011)

you are very eager to defend them aren't you pc
like spymaster with the cops


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

Fuck off you silly cunt. You have trouble with comprehending the written word or something? Where have I defended the EDL? Or racists?

I have cast doubt on the extent to which the EDL or racism influenced the crowds who were out in Enfield and Eltham last night. In other words, I've defended people who've been accused of racism or being motivated by the EDL (and NF) on no real evidence. What are you saying - you'd rather they _were_ racist?


----------



## IC3D (Aug 10, 2011)

Find some proof the EDL organised Enfield and Eltham some people are obsessed. The left has disintegrated to hating the Jews and the white working class hasn't it.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

You fucked it a bit there with "the Jews", chief.


----------



## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

PC, defending the EDL, as if! what a larf, this site really is going down the pan, racialising a whole group from the actions of a few, on the net there are some dodgy comments amongst the Kurds running the looters out of their area, don't hear anyone picking up on that, the liberal left is becoming wacist against the white working class...

meanwhile in birmingham, real ethnic tension is sadly brewing after the hit and run kills three men..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/birmingham-riots-anger-deaths


----------



## love detective (Aug 10, 2011)

ddraig said:


> you are very eager to defend them aren't you pc
> like spymaster with the cops



and he'd be quite right to defend a large group of people who have been accused of racism/being EDL by liberals stirring up racial tensions on here and elsewhere

here's a selection of some of the more reasoned tweets about the situation from last night (and yes nothing on twitter these days can be taken as reliable etc..):-

- No indication of edl or other far right involvement in eltham at moment (Matthew Taylor - Guardian)

- This was mainly locals, not edl etc from outside, out to defend what many called ‘white working class neighbourhood’ (Matthew Taylor - Guardian)

- markadoi84 We’re saying the opposite - no sign of EDL in #Eltham (BBC Five Live)

- There was no bnp in #eltham tonite, no racist attacks, no marches, local people protecting their community.please stop the false lies

- Right bed time. Its a shame what was a good bit of unity to protect our town has been twisted by lies into a supposed racist march!

- It wasnt just millwall fans protecting #Eltham it was the whole community!!! get it right!!! and it wasnt nothing 2 do with racism!!

- Eltham residents are defending there area an not #EDL.. WELL DONE, the lefties tho think u look like them :/ which is skinhead drunk thugs


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 10, 2011)

Fucking millwall.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Fucking millwall.



Cunts, the lot of them.


----------



## BigTom (Aug 10, 2011)

something similar to eltham is going to happen in Birmingham tonight - it's unclear right now whether it's football firms or just EDL.  I don't if anyone who is more connected into this can shed any light on it? I'd guess it's not all over fb or I'd be seeing it here.
Know people who are in town who are going to take a look at it and let me know.  6pm seems to be the advertised time but I'm hearing rumours now of 400 blues fans coming into town.. that could easily be bullshit.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> 'Chasing Blacks'



This footage is of Spurs hoolies in Enfield, yeah the guy saying "Look they're chasing blacks" is obviously a racist prick .. but as you can see he is an onlooker and not part of the mob.

EDL will claim some of this but this was not their initiative, but will want to play the race card etc etc..


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

juice_terry said:


> This footage is of Spurs hoolies in Enfield, yeah the guy saying "Look they're chasing blacks" is obviously a racist prick .. but as you can see he is an onlooker and not part of the mob.
> 
> EDL will claim some of this but this was not their initiative, but will want to play the race card etc etc..



Quite frankly, if that group caught up with a random Black person and beat the shit out of them, it's the same crap.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

Big "if" though, isn't it?

There's no evidence - other than the word of the Fatboy Dim in the video - that the person or persons being chased were black.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Whatever PC. If this all kicks off into a race war you will not be targeted. I grew up around people like this.  I know the mentality well.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 10, 2011)

And what if those in Southall and Tottenham defending their areas caught up with an alleged looter and battered them ?


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita - you are - _rightly_ - prepared to take people to task at unthinking/racist suggestions of the looting/rioting being down to black youth. And yet you have the front to take issue with me when I challenge assumptions that groups made up predominantly of white males are a-priori going to be racist/motivated by racism?

I grew up around people like this, too - in fact I'm one of them. There's racists among them for sure and their racism has to be opposed and stopped from spreading to other young white males - something that isn't made easier by assuming the worst. Unless, of course, you believe that they're already a lost cause.

So "whatever" right back at you.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 10, 2011)

first off, i haven't accused pc of defending the edl
i am not that thick honest, even though he has called me a cunt
so not a millwall supporter either then

i meant pc was very quick and still is insistently defending the people in the video
i used to live and work around there and remember what it is like, tense and horrible attitudes without any of this shit on top.
and that was before the edl
so that is where i am coming from, for the hypocrisy hunters


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Whatever PC. If this all kicks off into a race war you will not be targeted. I grew up around people like this. I know the mentality well.



Not on. Most of us grew up 'round people like this'. I don't always agree with you Rutita1, but i know that you're on the right side. That post is out of order.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

A woman is on the radio (LBC) now, reporting that groups _like_ this have just attacked her son and nephew...going on in more than one place. I care not if they are paid up members of the EDL, same crap.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 10, 2011)

I used to live around Eltham, some of my family still live in the area. Some of those guys in that clip will be racists, plenty of them wont.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Belushi said:


> I used to live around Eltham, some of my family still live in the area. Some of those guys in that clip will be racists, *plenty of them wont.*



I know that.

I worked in Eltham for a couple of summers...Never again...even the White foreign students were not safe and many were beaten up/chased etc during their stay.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

ddraig said:


> first off, i haven't accused pc of defending the edl
> i am not that thick honest, even though he has called me a cunt
> so not a millwall supporter either then
> 
> ...



Hold on. I've not fucking "defended" anyone. Certainly not the racist cunt in the video who said "they're chasing blacks", certainly not the the very small numbers chanting "EDL" in _one_ of several videos posted. Clearly, for some of you, it's not obvious why I'm doing this, so I'll spell it out - it's to try to counter the assumption/stereotype that they're just going to be racists.

We don't seem to have a problem recognising that if you tell young working class black men often enough that they're worthless scumbag looters and muggers that some of them will turn out like that. Why would the same thing not apply when you tell young working class white men often enough that they're scumbag racists?

p.s. - you're not Millwall - you don't do our humour.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

Right here it is, the definitive Eltham video showing how it is. No racists just locals doing the right thing...

Makes you proud...

_"All the community's come together, look at our town now, look at Eltham, Eltham hasn't been touched"_

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videod...riots-were-doing-the-job-the-police-14827861/


----------



## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

'I grew up around people like this. I know the mentality well.'

like this, a whole town, now who is generalising? , i think you are obssessed, you remind me of the identity politics fanatics: race gender, sexuality, etc,  i met at Uni and in local politics


----------



## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

'so that is where i am coming from, for the hypocrisy hunters'

instead of the witch hunters...

a lot of the WWC are becoming to see the Left as their enemy, a tragedy, imo...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'I grew up around people like this. I know the mentality well.'
> 
> like this, a whole town, now who is generalising? , i think you are obssessed, you remind me of the identity politics fanatics: race gender, sexuality, etc, i met at Uni and in local politics



The whole town wasn't on the street, nor chasing people. I don't care what you think. I know what I know and have experienced, get over it.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> _a lot_ of the WWC are becoming to see the Left as their enemy, a tragedy, imo...



Perhaps _those_ people you speak of should stop reading  and internalising the crap spouted in the right wing press then! They are getting fucked over too.


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

love detective said:


> typical liberal hysteria/fear of the white working class combined with the usual patronising of ethnics
> 
> armed turks/kurds take to the streets to protect their local businesses - huzzah
> 
> ...



From what I read there was no trouble in their area, so they marched off to try and find some.


----------



## Deareg (Aug 10, 2011)

They were trying to get a mob together in one part of Manchester as well, inspired  by there London counterparts, on the Manchester footie banter FB page, they seemed to have some kind of paranoia about Ashton bus station windows getting broke! one silly cunt called jordan said he was bringing his sword and was telling his mates "it is blade time" then the owner of the page asked for a list of names of all those who were going. before being informed that it was all a false alarm. silly cunts.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> From what I read there was no trouble in their area, so they marched off to try and find some.



And where did you read this?


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

past caring said:


> And where did you read this?


I can't remember, sorry.

I realise that means it's not necessarily true, that's why I prefixed the statement with "from what I read" rather than posting it as unsubstantiated fact.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

An EDL muppet talks to the cameras in Eltham. He's not a local and has parachuted in to "Manage and Control" the locals (his words). I'm sure that attitude went down like a ton of bricks with the locals who were more than competent enough to run their own neighbourhood patrol.

Now, how an (one issue) anti muslim extremist organization fits into all this is anybody's guess. It looks more like a BNP tactic to me.

Anyway, check out this muggy cunt in the video.


----------



## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

'An EDL muppet talks to the cameras in Eltham. He's not a local and has parachuted in to "Manage and Control" the locals (his words). I'm sure that attitude went down like a ton of bricks with the locals who were more than competent enough to run their own neighbourhood patrol.'

Bit like the UAF lot then...


----------



## spitfire (Aug 10, 2011)

A friend of mine lives in enfield and i asked him who was involved in the action, I told him i heard that it might have been the EDL. He said it was mostly local lads and the "THFC lot". He went on to say that there were a couple of people who tried to get "silly" but they were chased off by the locals. By that i took it to mean edl/bnp types. He's no racist by the way. Just a local lad.


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 10, 2011)

spitfire said:


> A friend of mine lives in enfield and i asked him who was involved in the action, I told him i heard that it might have been the EDL. He said it was mostly local lads and the *"THFC lot"*. He went on to say that there were a couple of people who tried to get "silly" but they were chased off by the locals. By that i took it to mean edl/bnp types. He's no racist by the way. Just a local lad.



That certainly chimes with the group standing outside one of the boozers which is a well know 'Yid' pub.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

Better version, where they shout at 3 kids on a bus....


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Better version, where they shout at 3 kids on a bus....




Was just about to post this.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

Funny how both videos tell a diffrent story


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 10, 2011)




----------



## _angel_ (Aug 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Funny how both videos tell a diffrent story


youtube links


----------



## spitfire (Aug 10, 2011)

some fucking goons there indeed but from 45 seconds in there is a black guy standing around with a massive grin on his face looking distinctly unthreatened. so maybe the situation is not quite as cut and dried as it looks.

maybe the vast majority were just normal people doing what they though best?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

Fuck, how do you put people back on ignore?


----------



## spitfire (Aug 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Fuck, how do you put people back on ignore?



who, me? I don't think i've posted enough to be ignored by anyone. not officially anyway.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

Nah not you.


----------



## spitfire (Aug 10, 2011)

Phew. *wipes brow*


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Nah not you.


A dislike button would be good. Save a lot of breath repeating ourselves.

<mimic>The left; it was the left; if only the left; bit like the left, just like the left; again, it's all the fault of the left</mimic>


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

fieldproducer Neal Mann  

So it appears that police have now had to divert large resources in #Eltham to deal with 'vigilantes' #Londonriots
alextomo alex thomson 


Se Lon. 100s riot cops confronting 200 EDL vivilantes


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

skitr said:


> Was just about to post this.



But wait...this didn't happen, we are seeing things....those boys on the bus, looting clearly...whilst in their seats! FFS!

This was commented on last night. Apparently, it didn't happen.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

Watching Sky news and there seems to be a few 100 EDL out causing more trouble than help and chucking bottles at the fuzz.


----------



## quimcunx (Aug 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Watching Sky news and there seems to be a few 100 EDL out causing more trouble than help and chucking bottles at the fuzz.



Where?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

SE area might be Eltham, was on just now,and might be on the 10pm update


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

http://twitter.com/#!/alextomo

might help


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Watching Sky news and there seems to be a few 100 EDL out causing more trouble than help and chucking bottles at the fuzz.



Given 'Press Review' has been on Sky News for the last 25 minutes how are you managing that?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

erm cos they did an update during press review? after that woman said the people on the front of the paper where hardly dressed for court?


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> erm cos they did an update during press review? after that woman said the people on the front of the paper where hardly dressed for court?



Never saw that, the end of the programme ran with the news re Eltham mind.

That bit made me rather angry...... Hartley-Brewer is a fucking horrible individual.


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

@alextomo alex thomson 

Listen - - dunno if these blokes were EDL or not but they shouted EDL and attacked the police


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2011)

Sky never called them EDL in the main report, and i have missed C4 news now..... might check it on +1


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

This gets better by the minute.

On that Twitter from Alex Thomson:



> Locals furious at what they say are outsider vigilantes coming in to fight anyone - partic the cops



http://twitter.com/#!/alextomo


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 10, 2011)

Interesting


----------



## love detective (Aug 11, 2011)

so once again for a second night in a row, the default knee-jerk liberal assumption (from liberals who otherwise claim they are colour blind to skin colour) incorrectly categorised a grouping of white working class men as organised racist/edl in substance

this misinformation that was peddled the night before last about the NF/BNP and or EDL marching from Eltham into the centre of Lewisham/Catford, was also sparked off again last night and because there was an actual (anti-cuts, progressive) march within Lewisham last night, the whole NF/BNP thing was sparked off again last night, resulting in a group of youths mobilising to defend the 'black community'

so from ill advised comments, misinformation and prejudices about people organising themselves along ethnic lines we now actually have people organising themselves along ethnic lines to confront what they believe is a threat organised along ethnic lines

well done liberal cunts, by turning social issues into racial ones, you're doing the BNP's work for them


----------



## cantsin (Aug 11, 2011)

love detective said:


> so once again for a second night in a row, the default knee-jerk liberal assumption (from liberals who otherwise claim they are colour blind to skin colour) incorrectly categorised a grouping of white working class men as organised racist/edl in substance
> 
> this misinformation that was peddled the night before last about the NF/BNP and or EDL marching from Eltham into the centre of Lewisham/Catford, was also sparked off again last night and because there was an actual (anti-cuts, progressive) march within Lewisham last night, the whole NF/BNP thing was sparked off again last night, resulting in a group of youths mobilising to defend the 'black community'
> 
> ...



hold on, lots of us agree with you in principle, but are you seriously blaming 'liberals cunts ' for this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_VsYxLao4 

can you blame black kids for 'organising along racial lines' when they're seeing that, from Eltham, on Tuesday ?

and then when they've seen that, they might have wondered what would have happened  if the OB hadnt have stopped this ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlZZwjY3vY4&feature=player_embedded

and you want to blam this on 'Liberals '?????????


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

cantsin said:


> hold on, lots of us agree with you in principle, but are you seriously blaming 'liberals cunts ' for this ?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_VsYxLao4



The racist cunts who were trying to to attack the black lads are to blame, clearly. As are those who exaggerated the racial dimension to what happened in Eltham on Monday - that had the effect of encouraging real racists to come out of the woodwork, which they undoubtedly did last night. EDL from outside the area felt more confident about coming in to spew their filth, believing they'd get a ready reception and those racists already living there no doubt felt more confident in coming out with their crap.



> can you blame black kids for 'organising along racial lines' when they're seeing that, from Eltham, on Tuesday ?



Where does the post you quoted blame the black kids? It clearly blames those who were stoking the rumour mill as responsible. The black kids weren't organising because they were "seeing that" were they? Both things happened on Tuesday evening - the black kids came out because of what they had heard had happened in Eltham on Monday.



> and then when they've seen that, they might have wondered what would have happened if the OB hadnt have stopped this ?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlZZwjY3vY4&feature=player_embedded
> 
> and you want to blam this on 'Liberals '?????????



Like fucking Groundhog Day with you, isn't it? Video already dealt with - how is it evidence of an attempt to march on Lewisham. It's certainly evidence of police determination to stop any such attempt, but not of anything else.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 11, 2011)

past caring said:


> The racist cunts who were trying to to attack the black lads are to blame, clearly. As are those who exaggerated the racial dimension to what happened in Eltham on Monday - that had the effect of encouraging real racists to come out of the woodwork, which they undoubtedly did last night. EDL from outside the area felt more confident about coming in to spew their filth, believing they'd get a ready reception and those racists already living there no doubt felt more confident in coming out with their crap.
> 
> Where does the post you quoted blame the black kids? It clearly blames those who were stoking the rumour mill as responsible. The black kids weren't organising because they were "seeing that" were they? Both things happened on Tuesday evening - the black kids came out because of what they had heard had happened in Eltham on Monday.
> 
> *Like fucking Groundhog Day with you, isn't it? Video already dealt with - how is it evidence of an attempt to march on Lewisham. It's certainly evidence of police determination to stop any such attempt, but not of anything else.*


*[/quote][/quote]*

edit : see what you mean - will look again


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

don't get it either

did you see the attack on the bus PC?
any justification?


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

What I am saying is this - someone posted that video yesterday - as evidence of the crowd attempting to get to Lewisham. And I said then - all you can see is about 15 blokes. It's evidence of the police taking pre-emptive action to stop the crowd getting out of the area. But it doesn't constitute evidence of the crowd trying to get to Lewisham. It's Groundhog Day because people take the trouble to reply to posts, those replies are ignored and then the same "evidence" is posted up again to make the same "point" that has become no less idiotic in the interim.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

PC is not justifying that attack, he is condemning it and saying that the EDL, out of town lot, are responsible for it.

I want to see the locals in Eltham, telling the EDL to fuck off.


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

ddraig said:


> don't get it either
> 
> did you see the attack on the bus PC?
> any justification?



Another Groundhog Day cunt - are you just thick or do you not bother reading replies before you post?
What part of;



past caring said:


> The racist cunts who were trying to to attack the black lads are to blame, clearly.



are you struggling with?


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> PC is not justifying that attack, he is condemning it and saying that the EDL, out of town lot, are responsible for it.
> 
> I want to see the locals in Eltham, telling the EDL to fuck off.



Thankyou.

(Edited to add: precisely what I want to see).


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

And I'm sorry for the "cunt" stuff, but frustration boils over at times.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

past caring said:


> Another Groundhog Day cunt - are you just thick or do you not bother reading replies before you post?
> What part of;
> 
> are you struggling with?


ok bossman
i'll just remain sceptical of large groups of white middle aged blokes on streets of eltham and hope any non white people i know in that area aren't getting the bus at the wrong time then.
that ok with you?


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2011)

'When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically â using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted, in a metaphorical echo of the looters they're determined to stop.'

DD, you are in good company, Guardian liberal Zoe Williams also smears a whole community,

try doing this with any other group, you won't..


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2011)

JamesAbb5 James Abbott
the amazing thing is the real "chav scum" on the BBC in Manchester are white english people. #ukriots

KWAMEtheRapperr Thebe Kgositsile
white girls are the scum of the earth lol
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

annio3 Annio3
"@solaar: MUSLIM BROTHERS: LET US ACHIEVE EQUAL RIGHTS BY DESTROYING THE WHITE MAN'S WORLD! LOOT HIS POSSESSIONS & TORCH ALL HE LOVES > Scum
7 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

comments online...


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically â using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted, in a metaphorical echo of the looters they're determined to stop.'
> 
> DD, you are in good company, Guardian liberal Zoe Williams also smears a whole community,
> 
> *try doing this with any other group, you won't..*



Not having a pop at you, but in fact Ms Williams does precisely this in the piece you quote - the clear implication of "in a metaphorical echo of the looters they're determined to stop" is that the looters are, if not exclusively black, as near as dammit as makes no difference. Scratch a fucking liberal.....


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

And treelover - as for the other stuff and you're continued "Muslim extremist" schtick, it's just as tiresome now as it was before it all kicked off.

Do you shave by the way?


----------



## cantsin (Aug 11, 2011)

past caring said:


> And treelover - as for the other stuff and you're continued "Muslim extremist" schtick, it's just as tiresome now as it was before it all kicked off.
> 
> Do you shave by the way?


----------



## cantsin (Aug 11, 2011)

treelover said:


> JamesAbb5 James Abbott
> the amazing thing is the real "chav scum" on the BBC in Manchester are white english people. #ukriots
> 
> KWAMEtheRapperr Thebe Kgositsile
> ...



even by your piss poor standards, this is just too feeble...


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2011)

Sorry PC, but if we are going to discuss nationalist fundamentalists we need to look at the other fundies...

or are you trying to close down debate on the issues..


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)

David cameron just said there is none sicker than the EDL, was on TV like.


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

treelover said:


> Sorry PC, but if we are going to discuss nationalist fundamentalists we need to look at the other fundies...
> 
> or are you trying to close down debate on the issues..



Taking the piss out of your hysterical wittering is closing the debate down now?

p.s. - repeatedly posting up evidence of that which we already know (that there are right-wing Muslim fundies out there, as well as racist EDL ones - and that there are Walter Mitty types sympathetic to both extremes) isn't actually "debate". That would be something more along the lines of trying to assess their strength, their potential for growth and the consequent danger they present. And, if that assessment was one of a real danger, then discussing what to do about it. When you actually feel like participating in genuine debate I'm sure the rest of us will be all ears.

p.p.s. - you still haven't answered my question about shaving?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14488247


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)

*1328:*

Labour MP Clive Efford claims extremist groups in Eltham, south-east London, are trying to stir up racial tensions. The PM says no part of society is "sicker" than the English Defence League.


----------



## skitr (Aug 11, 2011)

I think it's fair to call them EDL when they're reported to be walking down the street singing EDL.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'When it's a large group of Millwall supporters, in a pub all day, talking about doing the police's job for them, it creates the impression that they're spoiling for a fight, opportunistically â using the chaos to bust into a racial confrontation that they normally wouldn't be permitted, in a metaphorical echo of the looters they're determined to stop.'
> 
> DD, you are in good company, Guardian liberal Zoe Williams also smears a whole community,
> 
> try doing this with any other group, you won't..


is that to me? 
if so
have you even been to eltham? do you know what it is like around there?
have you felt the tension, bullshit and bravado?
i felt it and it is weird and scary, and i am a white bloke.

do i need to caveat that "of course not all the people of eltham are racist scum" ??


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

and in the bit you quoted it clearly says "creates the impression"
and i agree with what you've quoted


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

Because Millwall fans are racist?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

again
i used to live and work in se london and came across enough of them
another caveat -OF COURSE NOT ALL ARE
but ime and off the top of my head way over 50% of the ones i met/worked with/came across (that made it known they were fans) were vocally and often proudly so


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

A couple of points;

My experience - as someone who supports Millwall, goes to games, who, if not born in the area, has lived in SE London since a kid, who still lives in the area, is that your percentage is somewhat high. But we'll go with yours;

If 50% aren't racist - what message do you think an assumption that they _must_ be racist because they support Millwall gives out? What effect is this likely to have? When thinking about your answer, try to bear in mind the very particular tribalism that supporting Millwall involves.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

durrr
that it spreads and breeds a sense of "well if they are gonna treat us like cahnts then we moight as wew act laik cahnts, init bruv, ave it!"
and the decent "sawlt ov tha erf" supporters who work hard at battling the assumption by some (not me) give up and go to the other side, as they might as well

something like that?
did i do well?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 11, 2011)

past caring said:


> A couple of points;
> 
> My experience - as someone who supports Millwall, goes to games, who, if not born in the area, has lived in SE London since a kid, who still lives in the area, is that your percentage is somewhat high. But we'll go with yours;
> 
> If 50% aren't racist - what message do you think an assumption that they _must_ be racist because they support Millwall gives out? What effect is this likely to have? When thinking about your answer, try to bear in mind the very particular tribalism that supporting Millwall involves.



This true. No-one loves you, and you pretend not to care.


----------



## krink (Aug 11, 2011)

past caring said:


> My experience - as someone who supports Millwall, goes to games...If 50% aren't racist - what message do you think an assumption that they _must_ be racist because they support Millwall gives out?



Excellent point. In my experience of football I have no idea what percentage of fans of my team are racist but it does seem almost 100% of the gobshites at football are! May I also send my commiserations on having to support Millwall.

Sunderland, mate. Now that's a team.


----------



## Deareg (Aug 11, 2011)

Of the admittedly few Millwall fans that I have met only one was a racist and I believe that had more to do with him being a first class idiot than any bad intentions on his part.


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

ddraig said:


> durrr
> that it spreads and breeds a sense of "well if they are gonna treat us like cahnts then we moight as wew act laik cahnts, init bruv, ave it!"
> and the decent "sawlt ov tha erf" supporters who work hard at battling the *assumption by some (not me)* give up and go to the other side, as they might as well
> 
> ...



If this was you demonstrating your "free from assumption and stereotype" thinking, then I'm afraid not. 

More seriously, no - it's a different dynamic, I think. Both the racist and the non-racist supporter recognise when they're being stereotyped, when supposed "liberals" in the media and elsewhere are happy to trot out the tired cliches of Millwall fans all being thugs and racists - _and crucially they both react the same_. It is not the case that the racist says "Yeah, we're Millwall and racist - it's great" and the non-racist says "Oh, but we're not all like that".

They both say - "Fuck off you patronising middle-class cunt. No-one likes, we don't care."
And by giving new life to and re-enforcing that point of unity, you make it much harder for the non-racist to challenge the racist.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

oooh
close tho eh!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Of the admittedly few Millwall fans that I have met only one was a racist and *I believe that had more to do with him being a first class idiot than any bad intentions on his part.*



I am absolutely sick of this kind of dismissive excuse. IMO you are part of the problem and do nothing to challenge it. In practice your approach condones overt and casual racism. Well done!

What would he have to do or say for you to actually acknowledge the 'bad' part of being a racist?

I worked at Millwall as a steward during the 90's. It was not safe or pleasant even in the family enclosure. Stop making excuses please. It is utterly annoying.


----------



## Deareg (Aug 11, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> I am absolutely sick of this kind of dismissive excuse. What would he have to do or say for you to actually acknowledge the 'bad' part of being a racist?
> 
> I worked at Millwall as a steward during the 90's. It was not safe or pleasant even in the family enclosure. Stop making excuses please. It is utterly annoying.


He was the sort of prick who read the sun and actually believed it, he was so easy to embarrass into silence that he was not even worth falling out with, I am not dismissive of racists or the effects of racism, I was speaking of him as an idiot because that is what he was.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

Deareg said:


> He was the sort of prick who read the sun and actually believed it, he was so easy to embarrass into silence that he was not even worth falling out with, I am not dismissive of racists or the effects of racism, *I was speaking of him as an idiot because that is what he was.*



You also said:



> I believe that had more to do with him being a first class idiot* than any bad intentions on his part.*



You are dismissing racism and the effects of it IMO. Answer my question please: What would he have to do or say for you to actually acknowledge the 'bad' part of being a racist?


----------



## Deareg (Aug 11, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> You also said:
> 
> You are dismissing racism and the effects of it IMO. Answer my question please: What would he have to do or say for you to actually acknowledge the 'bad' part of being a racist?


I wasn't intending too be dismissive, and I never actually said or meant that there was no bad part too racism, I said that he had no bad intentions, if he read something in the Sun he believed it and would repeat it before being torn to shreds. For me to acknowledge the bad part of being a racist all he would have had to do was use for a second time some kind of racist word, which he never did after being warned the first time he did it.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I wasn't intending too be dismissive, and I never actually said or meant that there was no bad part too racism, I said that he had no bad intentions, if he read something in the Sun he believed it and would repeat it before being torn to shreds. For me to acknowledge the bad part of being a racist all he would have had to do was use for a second time some kind of racist word, which he never did after being warned the first time he did it.



If he was so innocent, just parroting from what he read in the Scum, and didn't repeat stuff once he was told, why are you calling him a racist?



> Of the admittedly few Millwall fans that I have met only one was a racist


----------



## Deareg (Aug 11, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> If he was so innocent, just parroting from what he read in the Scum, and didn't repeat stuff once he was told, why are you calling him a racist?


Because the first day that I worked with him he used a racist word to refer to some Asians.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)




----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)

*Eltham EDL on Channel 4 News tonight im told. 
*


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *Eltham EDL on Channel 4 News tonight im told. *



Cheers, for the heads-up on that.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)

http://www.channel4.com/news/police-clash-with-vigilantes-in-eltham

I'm sure there will be more at 7pm


----------



## laptop (Aug 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.channel4.com/news/police-clash-with-vigilantes-in-eltham
> 
> I'm sure there will be more at 7pm






			
				C4 said:
			
		

> these chanting men had come, we were told, to protect their streets. The police had come to protect their streets. And here were the two groups come to protect the streets by confronting each other.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)

Another Nail in the coffin there then.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

now


----------



## Corax (Aug 11, 2011)

ddraig said:


> now


You're watching +1 aren't you? 

I particularly liked the EDL member who had come down to 'get it on video' because they ones causing trouble were 'claiming' to be EDL but were 'nothing to do with' them...

IIUC The EDL don't have any official membership, so how the fuck can they disclaim anyone who claims to be part of them?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)

And how the fuck did he know there was going to be people there who "pretend" to be EDL LOL


----------



## Corax (Aug 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> And how the fuck did he know there was going to be people there who "pretend" to be EDL LOL


EDLOL?


----------



## love detective (Aug 11, 2011)

cantsin said:


> and you want to blam this on 'Liberals '?????????



does the things i've pointed out about ill-informed & misguided liberal knee-jerk assumptions/prejudices help, or hinder, attempts to defuse actual racial/ethnic tensions?

as i said earlier on this thread 'every little helps' - so it's the kind of shit that could be done without - no one's blaming liberals for things that racists do directly, but more often than not, they indirectly contribute to stoking racial tensions rather than attempting to defuse them

thankfully in lewisham last night, a small group of (all white) anti-cuts marchers who were on their way home after the march, stumbled upon a group of about 30 black youths who had mobilised looking for NF/BNP/EDL and were at that point being kettled by police. A few went over to hand out legal advice cards and the like and explain what the (predominantly white) march had actually been about and defused the rumours/speculation about the march itself being an NF/BNP/EDL one. They then began to tail on the other side of the road , what had become a moving kettle to move the group out of the area. The black kids then urged them to join them inside the kettle which they did and and that was probably 100 more times effective than the anti-cuts march itself - as it was real inter-communal intermingling not rah rah marching with megaphones and pointless platitudes


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

Good stuff mate.


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2011)

.


----------



## IC3D (Aug 11, 2011)

Great report LD maybe the idiots stirring racial tension online will think twice before posting omgomg the NF are marching.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

Corax said:


> You're watching +1 aren't you?
> 
> I particularly liked the EDL member who had come down to 'get it on video' because they ones causing trouble were 'claiming' to be EDL but were 'nothing to do with' them...
> 
> IIUC The EDL don't have any official membership, so how the fuck can they disclaim anyone who claims to be part of them?


yes apols


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 11, 2011)

Corax said:


> You're watching +1 aren't you?
> 
> I particularly liked the EDL member who had come down to 'get it on video' because they ones causing trouble were 'claiming' to be EDL but were 'nothing to do with' them...
> 
> IIUC The EDL don't have any official membership, so how the fuck can they disclaim anyone who claims to be part of them?



I picked-up on that too, and coughed up some bullshit.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 11, 2011)

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2207


----------



## jakethesnake (Aug 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2207



*sigh*


----------



## ddraig (Aug 11, 2011)

hmmm indeed


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 12, 2011)




----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 12, 2011)

Responses to videos
Vid 1: East Anglians are coming? Ooo arrr, ooo arrr. Will they bring a combine harvester?

Vid 2: Can't we blame the EDL for failing to train up the police in dealing with rioters over the last year?

</badhumour>


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 12, 2011)

^^^I know I'm one for mis-spelling things, and think it's poor show by and large to criticise others for their spelling, but come on EDL, surely even you chaps and chappesses can spell Allah properly, no?

OK, enough of my "hilarity" - not too sure if anyone else has heard about this one - according to a mate of mine, who house-shares with some Bangladeshi guys on Commercial Road (in Tower Hamlets), the East London Mosque came under the attention of rioters when it was all kicking off in London, and was defended from attack by those attending it at the time (for Ramadan prayers and so on)...this mosque has managed to shake off any dubious/"radical" elements inside it a long while ago, and so is hardly a hotbed for wannabe Salafist idiots - but isn't this the one that the EDL want to march past?  So we have a situation where this mosque is prepared to defend itself from any serious trouble (with no help from the police) - what's going to happen if these "patriots" decide to start something whilst marching past said place?

(This is not a call to ban said march, by the way - let the EDL have their march, and let them see how unloved/ineffective/useless etc they really are)


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 12, 2011)

Home sec has banned the Telford March this Sat, so will now be static demo only.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 12, 2011)

And i can see the same for TH on the 3rd


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Home sec has banned the Telford March this Sat, so will now be static demo only.



http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/...-shops-board-up-after-edl-insists-demo-is-on/

is your information post 1129?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 12, 2011)

Pickman's model - found this on the Home Office site re. the Telford march: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/news/telford


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Pickman's model - found this on the Home Office site re. the Telford march: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/news/telford



i see they've updated the link in my post too


----------



## treelover (Aug 12, 2011)

'OK, enough of my "hilarity" - not too sure if anyone else has heard about this one - according to a mate of mine, who house-shares with some Bangladeshi guys on Commercial Road (in Tower Hamlets), the East London Mosque came under the attention of rioters when it was all kicking off in London, and was defended from attack by those attending it at the time (for Ramadan prayers and so on)...this mosque has managed to shake off any dubious/"radical" elements inside it a long while ago, and so is hardly a hotbed for wannabe Salafist idiots -'

Are you absolutely sure of that?, try googling to see some of the latest invitations to speak at the ELM, Rainbow Tower Hamlets have even put it 'on probation' in relation to challenging homophobia...


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 12, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'OK, enough of my "hilarity" - not too sure if anyone else has heard about this one - according to a mate of mine, who house-shares with some Bangladeshi guys on Commercial Road (in Tower Hamlets), the East London Mosque came under the attention of rioters when it was all kicking off in London, and was defended from attack by those attending it at the time (for Ramadan prayers and so on)...this mosque has managed to shake off any dubious/"radical" elements inside it a long while ago, and so is hardly a hotbed for wannabe Salafist idiots -'
> 
> Are you absolutely sure of that?, try googling to see some of the latest invitations to speak at the ELM, Rainbow Tower Hamlets have even put it 'on probation' in relation to challenging homophobia...



Have you been reading Andrew Gilligan's blogs again, treelover?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 12, 2011)

treelover - having done a bit of reading (not just the Gilligan blog, obv), I can't say I'm wildly impressed with the East London Mosque's faffing around with regard to homophobia....but having said that, at least they've attempted some sort of dialogue with the LGBT community in TH, which is at least a start - not perfect, but a start. Doubtlessly Rainbow TH will remain on the case with them.

As for the wannabe Salafist element, I can see a lot of allegations being thrown around with regard to the East London Mosque, but nothing really substantial so far....(oops, have to go now, meeting on).


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 12, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Responses to videos
> Vid 1: East Anglians are coming? Ooo arrr, ooo arrr. Will they bring a combine harvester?



From some reason that gave me an actual LOL moment.


----------



## Fingers (Aug 12, 2011)

A few bits and pieces

http://trufax101.tumblr.com/

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-use-broom-army-imagery-on-their-website

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/english-defence-league-join-riotors

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/cameron-describes-edl-rioters-as-sick

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fend...-to-being-called-sick-for-fighting-the-police


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




Cameron is a UAF supporter ? can't see why he took the trouble to even mention them.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 14, 2011)

*A Riot Laugh! By ‘Malatesta’*​*For Sale: Flat screen TV. Slight fire damage. Offers?*​Crivvens! Britain burns, Dave dithers and Boris bumbles through but luckily the English Defence League are on hand to help! Phew! It’s not really been going too well for the EDL over the last few weeks what with the media fingering them over connections to Norwegian  killer Anders Breivik, the continuing fallouts with the Jewish division, the appalling attack on a takeaway joint by Plymouth EDL and the subsequent sacking of Hayley Wells as regional organ grinder which incurred the wrath of the action monkeys of the ‘Combined Ex-Forces’ – regimental motto ‘Don’t panic! Don’t panic!’ And to top it off, after various factions have been sticking their nebs in where they simply weren’t wanted round ‘riot torn’ Britain they ended the week with a pisspoor demo in Wellington.  
*Poor Do! *
Considering that there has been a bit of a hoo-ha recently on Albion’s fair streets, plod thought it wise to ban the EDL’s Wellington march but could not refuse a static demo. Locals were grateful as the EDL bought a bunch of outsiders into town, the Telford/ Luton match was rescheduled and shops had to fork out to some dodgy company to get boarded up. In case you don’t know, a static demo is when the EDL arrive in a town where they are not wanted  armed with carrier bags of Stella to stand in a carpark with no toilets for an hour or two. After shouting a bit and getting out of hand, which the stewards always fail to deal with, plod then escorts them back to their coaches and they are told to go away. This is how ‘Islamic extremism’ has been successfully defeated by the EDL. Not really. At Wellington a diminished EDL stood cluelessly about getting more and more irate then, after chucking bottles at plod, some clever fellow attempted to get in the dog van! Why? As Rochdale  proved plod dogs love the taste of EDLers – apparently they’re like kebabs! As usual, the EDL couldn’t help themselves and after a wee bit of argy bargy there were 5 nickings, the silly Billies! As usual the stewards lost control and one female steward ‘scratched the life out of’ another member. As usual, it  also kicked off a bit on the train station when plod dished up Section 60s which mean ‘bugger off now, we’ve had enough!’ and there may also have been arrests at Birmingham train station when the Stella and Charlie relationship (the EDL’s royal couple) fully blossomed. Jeff ‘Stabber’ Marsh is currently seething and posting frenzied rebuttals to the scant press reports of the day on his website. Help Ma Boab! 
It’s been a bit of week for ‘Cocaine’ Kev Carol, de facto EDL leader now that Tommy has to be in bed by 7. ‘Sir’ Tommy Robinson is currently under bail restrictions so cannot attend demos – though this did not stop him from appearing on Newsnight for some reason – and Cocaine Kev is now calling the shots. He turned up at the London trial of 3 brave EDL warriors who had been arrested for attacking ‘Muslamics’ at Speakers Corner. So much for defending free speech then lads? 1 EDL had also grabbed a policeman’s genitals! Really! There are better ways of asking for dates you know! At Wellington the cocaine cowboy praised the father of one of the 3 guys who had been killed last week for being a ‘good Muslim’ and held a minute’s silence. Apparently South Yorkshire also tried to organise a flash demo yesterday in solidarity as but they didn’t get up in time. Shame. 
*A Bunch of Posses! *
The EDL have also been making a perfect nuisance of themselves following last week’s interruptions to the weekly shop. In Eltham a bunch of ‘middle aged men’ – who surely should know better – ended up chanting EDL slogans and fighting with plod. Locals claimed that these characters were outsiders and were not welcome especially after they attacked a bus with some black lads on it and members of the EDL Facebook pages were calling for some ‘nig bashing.’ How 70s! The EDL have claimed that these chaps weren’t members but seeing as how there is no formal membership scheme anyone who says they are EDL is therefore EDL no matter how many times Kev and Tommy deny it. David Cameron condemned the EDL this week by calling them ‘sick’ and the EDL have finally got round to issuing a statement on it. It makes for dull reading. In Enfield, an EDL vigilante posse turned up to be roundly condemned by plod for drinking too much and getting in the way of things. Manchester EDL made a half-arsed attempt to do something but then didn’t. The EDL also claimed to have swept the streets of Cambridge clear of Brigands and then indulged in their favourite pastime of intimidating takeaway joints (like in Plymouth and Leicester). 
Following the attack on the Plymouth takeaway 2 weeks back, Hayley Wells was removed as regional organiser for her part in the incident. The EDL leadership of course denied they had anything to do with it but seeing at it was caused by the Plymouth EDL after a Plymouth EDL meet and greet then it was Plymouth EDL wot done it! Hayley got a bit of a Facebook bollocking of Ma Wells for drinking and fighting instead of looking after her children. Hayley’s fiancé is Michael Rafferty, ‘commander’ of the Combined ex-Forces group (they love their little titles don’t they?) and he waltzed off in a tizz after Tommy slagged them all  off and they are no longer friends. Hayley ran the EDL Extra on Facebook and she is currently having a pram war with Hel Gower (Tommy’s PA & known fascist) and the toys are flying about! The Combined exForces also features our old mate Billy ‘Bunter’ Baker of the English Nationalists Association –hello Chubs, how’s the diet? - and they are threatening to march on Downing Street on September 3rd. I may be wrong but the only ‘forces’ Bunter Baker has experienced is when he forces another pasty into his toothless maw. The 3rd is also the date of the Tower Hamlets do which Tommy has promised is going to be a ‘bloodbath.’ Yes, but for who? 
The EDL have been invited to a Peterborough mosque to discuss issues but we will not be holding our breath. The EDL will not publicly debate with muslims for 3 reasons: that many of the EDL’s arguments are flawed and do not stand up to scrutiny; that the leadership have no one left who is articulate enough to debate in public; and they are unable to distinguish between moderate Muslims and the tiny percentage of Islamic extremists in the UK - as demonstrated by them singing ‘Mohammed /Allah is a pedo’ and assuming ‘moderate Muslims’ will not mind. So all in all a pretty terrible couple of weeks for the EDL: Norway, the Jewish division problems, numerous fallouts, being slagged in Parliament by Mr Dave and ever diminishing demos. Shame. See you on the 3rd! 
*No Copyright **http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/*


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 14, 2011)

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-14521160?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
> 
> More than 40 people were arrested as rival groups clashed in a Shropshire town where a march was banned by the home secretary on Saturday.



Shit Turnout seen as the bussed people in from all over.

I guess loads thought it was the wrong thing to do after last weeks riots.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 14, 2011)

oh and the Star stick the knife in again this Sunday

http://istyosty.com/e1nh


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2011)

The EDL obsessed might want to turn off facebook and have a read of this new report by One Law for all:



> ....explores how the far-Right has attempted to hijack opposition to Islamism for its own ends. It focuses on the British National Party, the English Defence League and Stop Islamisation of Europe/America, and exposes how their activities, associations, opinions and intentions reveal a racist and inhuman worldview, which must be resisted and criticised with as much vigilance as Islamism itself.



Summary

Full Report 

(pdf)


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The EDL obsessed might want to turn off facebook and have a read of this new report by One Law for all:
> 
> Summary
> 
> Full Report (pdf)



Cheers for that BA, will have a look later.

This maybe of interest to some too - Hate, My Life In The British Far Right.


----------



## Corax (Aug 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The EDL obsessed might want to turn off facebook and have a read of this new report by One Law for all:
> 
> Summary
> 
> ...


Is there anything specific of note in the full report that would be particularly worth looking at? I ask because the summary doesn't mention anything that isn't already widely known.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The EDL obsessed might want to turn off facebook and have a read of this new report by One Law for all:
> 
> Summary
> 
> ...


ta for that mate, reading it now


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> Is there anything specific of note in the full report that would be particularly worth looking at? I ask because the summary doesn't mention anything that isn't already widely known.



I'm reading it now . Very, very good


----------



## Corax (Aug 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I'm reading it now . Very, very good


Will have a shufti at the full one the, ta.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 14, 2011)

One Law for All said:
			
		

> The SIOE leadership has written in defence of Radovan Karadzic, who is currently
> on trial for war crimes and genocide.38 In an article entitled ‘The Extraordinary
> Rendition of Radovan Karadzic’, they complain that anti-Serb media bias will
> deny Karadzic a ‘fair trial’. It also attempts to justify his actions, remarking that
> ...



Ugh


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 14, 2011)

> ‘If you do not attend this demonstration then you are prepared to see Israel
> wiped off the map. If you do not attend this demonstration then you are
> prepared to see Jews removed from the world. Vile anti-Semitism is being
> preached in mosques across the world and almost certainly the one in your
> ...



It's a very short slope from that, to the "vile anti-semitism" these scumbags are criticising


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The EDL obsessed might want to turn off facebook and have a read of this new report by One Law for all:
> 
> Summary
> 
> ...


 See also No to Fascism! No to Fundamentalism!
http://www.womenagainstfundamentalism.org.uk/nofascism.html
A speech given in October 2010 by Helen Lowe (RIP 1944 - 2011)


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 14, 2011)

Crivvens! some interesting responses to the latest 'Malatesta' over on Indymedia!
https://northern-indymedia.org/articles/2163
any ideas?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 14, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> Crivvens! some interesting responses to the latest 'Malatesta' over on Indymedia!
> https://northern-indymedia.org/articles/2163
> any ideas?


Taking a look now ... brb


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 14, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> Crivvens! some interesting responses to the latest 'Malatesta' over on Indymedia!
> https://northern-indymedia.org/articles/2163
> any ideas?



Soldier
1. British soldiers can cope with homecoming parade insults from a tiny band of vocal wingnut Islamists, who are enoying their rights to free speech in what passes for a democracy 'round these parts. Ergo, this response is not from a serving solider, but from one of Tha Grenadier/Alan not-so-Cleverley's wannabe militia 'boys' in the CxF. When I say 'boys', I mean 'middle-aged man'.
2. As far as I am aware, there is no popular opinion that believes the Taliban to be 'freedom fighters' - certainly not since the Cold War/Gorbachev/Regan days.
3. Indymedia doesn't present the Taliban as freedom fighters.
4. I suppose we can let the 'soldier' have the ''left wing websites like this one''
5. When one of the EDL's own mosque-opposing porky protestors tried to shmooze the lads in green, they were roundly rejected.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Aug 14, 2011)

Re. Mal's article.

You forgot to mention that the only other exercise Bunter Baker gets these days is lifting a pint to his mouth and wobbling up and down with rage when those pesky lefties and anarchists satirise him for posterity. He's also published an exceptionally loony treatise on moon goods which looks plagiarised from a US-author whose name I don't care to even remember (recently fisked on loonwatch).




View at EasyCaptures.com


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> oh and the Star stick the knife in again this Sunday
> 
> http://istyosty.com/e1nh



Searchlight stick the knife in you mean and they get to promote Collin's book


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Re. Mal's article.
> 
> You forgot to mention that the only other exercise Bunter Baker gets these days is lifting a pint to his mouth and wobbling up and down with rage when those pesky lefties and anarchists satirise him for posterity. He's also published an exceptionally loony treatise on moon goods which looks plagiarised from a US-author whose name I don't care to even remember (recently fisked on loonwatch).
> 
> View at EasyCaptures.com



ha ha thanks LB! there has always been that fascist/occultist nonsense with odin and various vegetable worship mixed in with hedgerow terrorism and home made bangers. david myatt is an oustanding example of this. he was a satanist and is now a muslim of all things. confused? you bet! bill 'shitcake' baker is a joke but he is up there with eddie morrison, kevin watmough and sid williamson in the 'malatesta' top 5 eejits!


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Searchlight stick the knife in you mean and they get to promote Collin's book



steps! yeah interesting turn of events from what i can gather. the mirror was always the searchlight feed into MSM and now it seems its the star as well. there was the turnaround from supporting the edl, to not, and now going against them and the far right in general. hmmm ...


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## MellySingsDoom (Aug 15, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> david myatt is an oustanding example of this. he was a satanist and is now a muslim of all things.



Myatt "retired" from being a Muslim last year, and now has a new "philosophy" going on - from what I can gather, he's no longer into Satanism (obviously), but seems to have entered the world of the occult again (ye gods) - check his ongoing friendship with Richard "I'm not a fascist, honest guv" Moult for starters ("Moulty" has done a couple of paintings based on Myatt v recently....)


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## butchersapron (Aug 15, 2011)

I bet he still looks like a child molester though.


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## MellySingsDoom (Aug 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I bet he still looks like a child molester though.



Judging by the R Moult "masterpiece" I saw (via online business), you're not wrong there!


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## The39thStep (Aug 15, 2011)

any relation to Ted Moult?


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 15, 2011)

£172,000 bill for 40 min EDL Dewsbury CounterJihad Europa protest - equivalent of keeping 2 libraries open for 1 yr: http://bit.ly/qpD1KB


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## Ranbay (Aug 16, 2011)

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2226/edlbusfootagethread.png

Some comments about the riots in London.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 17, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Myatt "retired" from being a Muslim last year, and now has a new "philosophy" going on - from what I can gather, he's no longer into Satanism (obviously), but seems to have entered the world of the occult again (ye gods) - check his ongoing friendship with Richard "I'm not a fascist, honest guv" Moult for starters ("Moulty" has done a couple of paintings based on Myatt v recently....)



i didnt know that. he's a 1 isn't he eh? talk about identity issues. again, typical of the cranks and weirdoes that are naturally attracted to the far right.


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## gawkrodger (Aug 19, 2011)

http://norfolknonaligned.wordpress.com/2011/08/19/edl-score-massive-success-due-to-swp-stupidity/


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## malatesta32 (Aug 19, 2011)

*Cat Fights & Barneys! By ‘Malatesta’*​Meeeeee-oooowwww! Don’t you just love a good cat fight? Far be it for the ‘Malatestas’ to feel any kind of schadenfreude when it comes to the associated idiots of the English Defence League but it is lovely to see those two hotties of the EDL, Roberta Moore of the Jewish Division and Hel Gower, Tommy Robinson’s PA, going it at it tooth and claw. Check out Gower the EDL’s smokin’ glamour girl here: 
http://theenglishdefenceleagueextra.blogspot.com/2011/08/hel-gower-bnp-jew-hater-literally-runs.html
Hel Gower, who is 70, runs the EDL Support Group and is currently being accused of anti-Semitism, racism and not saying her prayers at bedtime over on the EDL Extra website and our wee chums on the excellent Everything EDL site have captured it all in its full and bloody glory! Lookit!
http://twitpic.com/67vgl5
The EDL Extra site claims that ‘Hel-fire’ Gower has some kind of mystical pull over diminutive leader Stephen Napoleon-Lennon and this is why she is never chastised for her online outbursts and naughty behaviour! The toys are flying out of the prams as the Jewish division also claim to have names and evidence of the various EDLers involved in anti-Semitic smears. EDL Extra claim that Hel Gower is a supporter of the BNP, NF and geriatric ‘terror-gang’ Combat 18 – who readers will remember got turned over by the EDL in 2009 with 1 member catching the wrong end of a fire extinguisher. The claims made on Extra have been criticised by other EDLers for ‘making us look shit again.’ Now, now lads, you are perfectly capable of doing that yourselves by piling into a town uninvited, causing disruptions and damage and getting nothing but negative publicity in the media ... 
Incidentally, we have been going through the archives and have yet to find any complimentary publicity in the press about the EDL. They think that any publicity is good publicity but we think Gary Glitter and Jonathan King may disagree. There was the 1 piece in the Daily Star praising them but that was pretty much negated the following couple of weeks by negative reporting following a panic at Dirty Desmond’s HQ and the Star have subsequently reversed their position. Searchlight have also started using the Star to distribute anti EDL/BNP stories which used to go via The Mirror. But anyway ... back in the cat house ... 
*The Schisms Continue! *
The EDL continue to fragment and the predominant schism appears to be the Infidels. These wee radges are more vociferously right wing and nationalist (i.e., racist!) than the Tommy Robinson Band with their ‘multicultural racism’, pro-Israel stance and gay friendliness. The Infidels split has energised the torpid jobbies on the various Nazi websites with VNNuk claiming that the Infidels are preferable to the ‘Zionist’ EDL and Shirtfront (rhyming slang) do as well. They have also claimed that Tommy and his boys legged it when confronted by the Infidels at Blackburn following the ‘outing’ by Tommy of an internet critic and the subsequent brawl at the coaches. Result: Infidels 1, Tommy, shat. The Infidels are supported by John ‘Snowy’ Shaw who was  nicked at the Dudley rooftop protest. He left the EDL after falling out with Tommy who had raised a wad of cash for the ‘Snowy Defence Fund’ which has yet to be accounted for. We can only presume that the EDL royal couple, Stella and Charlie, benefitted somehow from the rotten proceeds. The Infidels have also said that the National Front would be welcome on any of their day trips. So they are not even attempting to disguise their far-right leanings. 
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t823389-2/
See post 17! 
*Marshland*
In a more conciliatory tone Jeff ‘Stabber’ Marsh of the Casuals United has been urging people to stop using the ‘Allah/Mohammed is a pedo’ chant on demos. This week saw a  couple of EDLers convicted in Halifax for such offensive chants and other posters agreed that it makes ‘the ELD [_sic_] sound like a bunch of retards.’ ‘Stabber’ Marsh is not concerned about causing offence rather than being caught. Stabber says ‘Stop it!’ but good luck with that Jeffrey. On the same thread a poster also claims that ‘there are no moderates in Islam there is only Islam, "moderates" is a western term and you wont find them using it.’ Which again illustrates the sophisticated, in-depth understanding that the ambassadors of non violence (and non-profiteering!) in the EDL have of world religions. http://ukfd.org/topic/8998950/1/
It just seems to be getting worse for Tommy and the EDL with many people realising the pointlessness of ‘defending’ various car parks from ‘Muslamic extremism.’ However, the Infidels are something to watch out for. Will they have the organisational nous to actually achieve something? We shall see ...
And tomorrow, (Sat, 19th August) the powerhouse that is the British Patriots Society (it’s okay, we’d never heard of them either) are marching PAST Downing Street. Don’t they know Mr Dave will be away attending a Bring and Buy sale at Chipping Sodomy – he is in charge of the Tombola! Everyone’s a winner in the Big Society, eh Mr Dave? In case you don’t know, the British Patriots Society is an unpleasant tweedy conglomeration of UKIP (we talk, UKIP), UPP (You Pee Pee!) and Pompey Dave from March For England (who are regularly humiliated by our antifascist comrades in Brighton). What a sizzler!!! I know, we  won’t be going either. 
*Belated Thanks! *
The ‘Malatestas’ would just like to thank the following websites (amongst others) for posting up the articles: EDL News, Lancaster Unity and Brighton Antifascists. Crivvens! Even the British Democracy Forum have got in on the act as have, surprisingly, the Nazi loons on VNNuk - so thank you to ‘Big’ Bev Kerry, winner of ‘Camel Toe of the Year Award,’ 2006. Lovely. 
*No copyright.*​*http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/*​


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 19, 2011)

Would you mind awfully posting an extract and a link rather than the wall of text? We try to avoid the latter.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 19, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Would you mind awfully posting an extract and a link rather than the wall of text? We try to avoid the latter.



apologies! i always thought just posting your web address was poor form! bit of blatant advertising etc. consider the 'malatestas' chastised! cheers M


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 19, 2011)

It's fine to post extract/summary + link to original (as long as it's not _all_ somebody does, which isn't the case with you) - I've done it myself - it's just that reproductions of long entries tends to put people off.


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## Corax (Aug 20, 2011)

True. I enjoy reading your stuff Mal, but posting the whole thing isn't suited to this format. 

Please keep posting links when there's updates though, and a summary if poss.  It's entertaining stuff IMO.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 20, 2011)

Corax said:


> True. I enjoy reading your stuff Mal, but posting the whole thing isn't suited to this format.
> 
> Please keep posting links when there's updates though, and a summary if poss. It's entertaining stuff IMO.



thanks very much! nice to get a wee bit of feedback now and again! M


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## kmarxs&sparks (Aug 20, 2011)

Just a small aside. I was quite amused to know 'Stormfront' is owned by..................

_*Don Black*_


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 20, 2011)

Mal - I've got a wee backlog on the Contemporary Anarchist blog - will try to catch up and post your excellent EDL reports asasp.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 20, 2011)

kmarxs&sparks said:


> Just a small aside. I was quite amused to know 'Stormfront' is owned by..................
> 
> _*Don Black*_



sparky! to add to that, we forgot to mention in the article above that the EDL eejit who was convicted for the anti islam chants was defended by Mohammed Farouk and thats why he was found guilty. the lawyer was a marxist-neocon-searchlight-new labour new danger-photoshopped image! those pesky muslamics!


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## malatesta32 (Aug 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Mal - I've got a wee backlog on the Contemporary Anarchist blog - will try to catch up and post your excellent EDL reports asasp.



nice one. just about to PM you. M


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## elfman (Aug 20, 2011)

Corax said:


> Please keep posting links when there's updates though, and a summary if poss. It's entertaining stuff IMO.



+1

Although I wasn't bothered about the long posts personally as it meant I didn't have to go to all that extra bloody effort of clicking a link and waiting for a new page to load up...


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## malatesta32 (Aug 20, 2011)

elfman said:


> +1
> 
> Although I wasn't bothered about the long posts personally as it meant I didn't have to go to all that extra bloody effort of clicking a link and waiting for a new page to load up...



elf, we are only here to serve and make your life a wee bit easier!


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## Ranbay (Aug 23, 2011)

EDL currently using this photo to whip people up ready for Tower Hamlets on their main page.... anyone spot any issues with it?


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 23, 2011)

See below ...


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## sunnysidedown (Aug 23, 2011)

there's a fair bit of noise/pixelation around the text.


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## Ranbay (Aug 23, 2011)

Been looking for the original but can't find one anywhere, so could be Harpers?


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 23, 2011)

...


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 23, 2011)

Photo of anti-gay muslim protest and placards genuine. Taken at Derby Pride on 20th August 2011.
Proof here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26872589@N00/6071102907/

No idea who the EDL photo was taken by. TinEYE returns nil result.


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## sunnysidedown (Aug 23, 2011)

that noise/pixelation must be from the jpg compression, the flickr image is clean.


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## Ranbay (Aug 23, 2011)

This was from last year so maybe it's legit then? just looked really shopped to me?


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## manny-p (Aug 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> This was from last year so maybe it's legit then? just looked really shopped to me?



Photoshopped or not, the islam4uk lot firmly believe what is on those placards.


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 23, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Photoshopped or not, the islam4uk lot firmly believe what is on those placards.


MAC (was Islam4UK) are a proselytising group and like the Christian Fundamentalists (US and UK), they show a fervent belief in their own righteousness and bigotry and intolerance to homosexuality, feminism, etc.


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 23, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Photoshopped or not, the islam4uk lot firmly believe what is on those placards.


It's not photoshopped - the placards are genuine.


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## Ranbay (Aug 23, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Photoshopped or not, the islam4uk lot firmly believe what is on those placards.



Yeah, I'm aware of that fact, what i don't however feel like doing is using it as an excuse to go "paki bashing"


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Yeah, I'm aware of that fact, what i don't however feel like doing is using it as an excuse to go "paki bashing"


Nor do Tower Hamlets residents, who earlier this year had to close down the planned East End Gay Pride march after it was found that several EDL supporters were on the management committee.
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wo...ckens-east-end-gay-pride-edl-links-confirmed/
http://www.imaan.org.uk/


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## manny-p (Aug 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Yeah, I'm aware of that fact, what i don't however feel like doing is using it as an excuse to go "paki bashing"


They are more likely to get 'east paki bashed'


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## treelover (Aug 25, 2011)

mob rule?


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## jakethesnake (Aug 25, 2011)

treelover said:


> mob rule?


Community Self-Defense


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## revlon (Aug 25, 2011)

> Tower Hamlets’ police chief is in the middle of two days of talks with community leaders over whether the Met should apply to the Home Office to ban the planned English Defence League march in Whitechapel on September 3.
> 
> It follows threats by Tower Hamlets mayor Lutfur Rahman that he will take the Met Police to the High Court if they do not make the application.
> 
> ...


http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co....olice_to_ban_edl_after_legal_threat_1_1004331

i guess the balls in tommy's court. Risk losing face or turn up a little less than mob handed and without police protection. Start at mile end and work your way up.


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## Ranbay (Aug 25, 2011)

I can't see them pulling more than 2k there last big one was 2-2.5k max, and since then lots of people have split/left/been arrested/had banning orders.... if they spread out in those numbers people will get hurt. (hopefully them mostly)


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## nino_savatte (Aug 25, 2011)

Dave Hill says that the the Met's application to ban the march has been successful
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehi...ice-apply-to-prohibit-edl-tower-hamlets-march


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 25, 2011)

However all marches across 5 boroughs will be banned for one month (except traditional annual marches and funereal processions).


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## malatesta32 (Aug 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I can't see them pulling more than 2k there last big one was 2-2.5k max, and since then lots of people have split/left/been arrested/had banning orders.... if they spread out in those numbers people will get hurt. (hopefully them mostly)



yeah it could be another bradford 'little big one.' the schisms are rife with the northern infidels being more openly racist (even siding with the NF). theres been lots of bans, fallouts, dismay over defending car parks etc. the jewish div problems rumble on. the leadership is tommy and kokaine kev karol. thats it. their multicultural stance is now discredited: i was watching youtube footage trying to see non-white, non-bonehead faces and there were none. even sky news commented on the 'demographic.' guramit and joel titus, have gone and glasgow ali has not been spotted much. they have talked this one up too much to back out. they will still do a static demo. expect heavy manners policing.


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## Ranbay (Aug 26, 2011)

two cops each


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## malatesta32 (Aug 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> two cops each



when they had their do at Leicester there were 1,600 plod turned out from 12 different forces which worked out at 2 each! it still kicked off tho and leicester plod should be well embarassed! eejits.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 26, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Dave Hill says that the the Met's application to ban the march has been successful
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehi...ice-apply-to-prohibit-edl-tower-hamlets-march


just a technical point: he says nothing of the sort.





> The campaign to have a march planned by the English Defence League through one of London's most ethnically-diverse boroughs banned looks to have been successful. The Metropolitan Police has announced that it is "in the process of applying to the Home Secretary for authority to prohibit a march in five London boroughs for a period of thirty days." It will be effective from 2 September. More details of the application are promised later, including the names of the boroughs affected, one of which is undoubtedly Tower Hamlets. The application, which is highly unlikely to be turned down, applies to all marches *[with some exceptions: see my update below]* in the boroughs concerned, including a planned counter-march against the EDL.


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## nino_savatte (Aug 26, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> just a technical point: he says nothing of the sort.


He updated that blog after I'd posted the link. But he did say



> The campaign to have a march planned by the English Defence League through one of London's most ethnically-diverse boroughs banned *looks to have been successful*.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 26, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> He updated that blog after I'd posted the link.


he didn't say it yesterday afternoon and he doesn't say it now. he said they'd applied to have it banned, and as of this morning no decision's been taken by the home secretary.


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## nino_savatte (Aug 26, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> he didn't say it yesterday afternoon and he doesn't say it now. he said they'd applied to have it banned, and as of this morning no decision's been taken by the home secretary.



That may be the case but he said that it "looks to have been successful".


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## Ranbay (Aug 26, 2011)

Tommy back in court today to appeal his £50 fine for a kung fu kick to the poppy burners last November..... bloody two tier system init, how come you can't kung fu kick people FFS!


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## Pickman's model (Aug 26, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> That may be the case but he said that it "looks to have been successful".


is that the same as what you said, that it had been successful? no? well, there you go then.


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## nino_savatte (Aug 26, 2011)

I forget, you're a nitpicker. I'll have to watch myself in future. 



> The application, *which is highly unlikely to be turned down,* applies to all marches


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## Pickman's model (Aug 26, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> I forget, you're a nitpicker. I'll have to watch myself in future.


i forgot you couldn't tell the difference between something being applied for and something happening. you'll have to be watched in future.


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## nino_savatte (Aug 26, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i forgot you couldn't tell the difference between something being applied for and something happening. you'll have to be watched in future.





> The application, *which is highly unlikely to be turned down,* applies to all marches



"Unlikely to be turned down". We'll see, eh?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 26, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> "Unlikely to be turned down". We'll see, eh?


again, this is rather different to 'has been successful'.


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## revlon (Aug 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommy back in court today to appeal his £50 fine for a kung fu kick to the poppy burners last November..... bloody two tier system init, how come you can't kung fu kick people FFS!



doing an eric


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 26, 2011)

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/norway-police-explore-several-breivik-links/


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## Corax (Aug 26, 2011)

A couple of years ago I opined that the BNP were dead and buried and no longer needed to be considered a threat. That opinion was dismissed out of hand by a number of posters, accompanied by some accusations of not being politically/socially aware enough to voice such an opinion. These bordered on sneering in tone, that peculiar brand of snobbery that's one of the less appealing aspects of the left.

Dare I risk it again with the EDL?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> A couple of years ago I opined that the BNP were dead and buried and no longer needed to be considered a threat. That opinion was dismissed out of hand by a number of posters, accompanied by some accusations of not being politically/socially aware enough to voice such an opinion. These bordered on sneering in tone, that peculiar brand of snobbery that's one of the less appealing aspects of the left.
> 
> Dare I risk it again with the EDL?


two years ago you were wrong about the bnp, although you'd be broadly right now. that is not to say that bnp members do not pose a threat: some clearly do. the slow death of the bnp is likely to see a load of new nationalist / fascist groupings emerging, with groups like the english democrats already doing nicely out of the bnp's slow demise and new organisations like paul golding's britain first! trying to attract people out of the bnp. somehow britain first! seem to have got hold of an old bnp mailing list -- i wonder how many urbanites are receiving golding's spam.

the edl on the other hand is a bit of a nationalist bumblebee, in that its internal contradictions mean it should not exist or be able to exist. its internal divisions (i don't mean eg the london division) and the large number of groups like the infidels undermine any real cohesion. indeed, if it hadn't been for the ban i could see the edl's demise being dated from 3 september. there was no conceivable way for the organisation to emerge with credit from the day. now any small turnout or any untoward (from the edl perspective) result can be laid at the door of the met and the government. they have been handed a lifeline. at some point the edl are going to be smashed off the streets. that could have happened this time, and still might. when that happens, chances are that a lot of edl regulars, and even more edl irregulars, are likely to consider their involvement with an organisation which can't in fact cope with serious physical opposition. potential recruits will be dissuaded if they see the possibility, or probability of a twatting, off muslims and others opposed to the edl's incursions.


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## Fingers (Aug 26, 2011)

Well the Plymouth Division were charged today:
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Kelly WATTERSON – aged 28yrs from St Peters Road in Manadon, Plymouth.
 1) Racially aggravated affray
 2) Racially aggravated common assault by beating

 Hayley WELLS – aged 27 from Shell Close, Leigham in Plymouth.
 1) Racially aggravated common assault by beating

 Michael RAFFERTY – aged 33yrs from Queen Street, Devonport in Plymouth.
 1) Obstruct/resist Constable in the execution of his duty

 Ricky BURLEY – aged 43yrs from High Street, Stonehouse in Plymouth.
 1) Using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour or disorderly behaviour (Contrary to Sec 5 of the Public Order Act)
 2) Obstruct/resist Constable in the execution of his duty

 All four of the above have Police Bail conditions as follows:

 1) Not to go within 100 metres of the Istanbul Kebab Takeaway, Exeter Street, Plymouth.
 2) To report to Charles Cross Police Station between 1pm and 2pm on the 28th August 2011 and the 3rd September 2011.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
That means they are banned from TH

They have organised another meet and greet on Sunday. that  will go well then


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 27, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> indeed, if it hadn't been for the ban i could see the edl's demise being dated from 3 september. there was no conceivable way for the organisation to emerge with credit from the day



Absolutely, but I would say that the true faithful get over setbacks pretty quickly. Memories like goldfish.
The "big homecomming" in Luton (nearly a year ago?) wasn't all that.

They got bored of the set piece rallies, the fact that Tommy never writes new material doesn't help. So they tried branching out into so-called "flashmobs" and silly stuff like the KFC demos. Damp squibs again.

So 3rd Sept would have been another in a long line, as it happens I think you are right: They will gain succour from their martyr complex but in the medium to long term they are still going nowhere.

As for other far right manifestions, we shall see..aint looked much into this "Britain First" thing.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 27, 2011)

From a quick scoot around BF stuff, it is pretty much BNP bilge isn't it?


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## malatesta32 (Aug 27, 2011)

FINGERS! thanks for the info. hayley 'dark satanic' mills is still regional organ grinder in plymouth and has been organising a coach to tower hamlets at 25 quid a pop. so she is going to be a bit miffed at the result. rafferty is the 'commander' of the exforces contingent which includes billy' bunter' baker who has had fuck all military experience as far as we can tell. rafferty is also an abysmal writer who can't spell and has a serious allergy to punctuation if his recent statements are anything to go by. tommy disowned the plymouth lot publicly after the kebab-alypse incident but of course they are still best of friends. anyone know what happened at the 'poppygate' trial yesterday yet?

read al about hayley 'trouble at the' mills here:
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/edl-latest-fiascos-by-‘macmalatesta’/

EDL: NSE or NCP?


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 27, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/edl-latest-fiascos-by-‘macmalatesta’/



From the link...



> they got steaming and ‘stormed’ a kebab shop terrifying the family who run it. Apparently, ‘Muslamic militants’ had been spotted hiding in the taramasalata.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 27, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> FINGERS! thanks for the info. hayley 'dark satanic' mills is still regional organ grinder in plymouth and has been organising a coach to tower hamlets at 25 quid a pop. so she is going to be a bit miffed at the result. rafferty is the 'commander' of the exforces contingent which includes billy' bunter' baker who has had fuck all military experience as far as we can tell. rafferty is also an abysmal writer who can't spell and has a serious allergy to punctuation if his recent statements are anything to go by. tommy disowned the plymouth lot publicly after the kebab-alypse incident but of course they are still best of friends. anyone know what happened at the 'poppygate' trial yesterday yet?
> 
> read al about hayley 'trouble at the' mills here:
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/08/03/edl-latest-fiascos-by-‘macmalatesta’/
> ...


ncp - new communist party so i think not.


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## Fingers (Aug 27, 2011)

Picture of Burley wearing a swastika t-shirt

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/charges-pressed-for-plymouth-attacks


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## Corax (Aug 27, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> read al about hayley 'trouble at the' mills here:


'trouble _up top_' shurely?


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 27, 2011)

*Sing if you're glad*
Only when the proposed East End pride march is threatened does Tatchell worry about banning yet another EDL march.
Odd that I can't find any previous objections to previous EDL march bannings from Tatchell. Would be glad to find something though.

*Petition to oppose the original petition*
You couldn't make this one up: UAF are now whining that their petition (and HnH) has resulted in a blanket ban on all marches.
They're now gathering signatures for another petition protesting the ban on marches that their original petition asked for.

*Ban/Proscribe the EDL*
Anyone who calls for EDL, as an organisation, to be banned are only going to drive it out of plain sight where it will no doubt ferment something far more dangerous than present. The only response is to meet them in plain sight. Hopefully anti-EDL activists will learn from this current predicament very quickly.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

latest 'Malatesta' piece on Tower Hamlets!

http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/edl-tower-hamlets/


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## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> latest 'Malatesta' piece on Tower Hamlets!
> 
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/edl-tower-hamlets/


just a quick point: your post says that the germans used the m60 in the war. the germans used the mg39 and mg42 (both 7.92mm) in the war, the m60 is a 7.62mm american general purpose machine gun used most famously in vietnam.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> just a quick point: your post says that the germans used the m60 in the war. the germans used the mg39 and mg42 (both 7.92mm) in the war, the m60 is a 7.62mm american general purpose machine gun used most famously in vietnam.



you pedantic schweinhund pickmans! we were black affrontit! we of course meant the MP40!
http://www.philaord.com/products/mp40.html


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## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> you pedantic schweinhund pickmans! we were black affrontit! we of course meant the MP40!
> http://www.philaord.com/products/mp40.html


ah! the old schmeisser! jawohl mein herr


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

is the term schmeisser kosher? i have never seen it used anywhere else apart from old war comics (where also the words 'schweinhund', 'achtung' and 'aieee!' were routinely employed). i went to an arms fayre - purely for research, i wasnt dressing up! - and they all referred to it as an MP40.

.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> is the term schmeisser kosher? i have never seen it used anywhere else apart from old war comics (where also the words 'schweinhund', 'achtung' and 'aieee!' were routinely employed). i went to an arms fayre - purely for research, i wasnt dressing up! - and they all referred to it as an MP40.
> 
> .


http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sc...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 30, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> just a quick point: your post says that the germans used the m60 in the war. the germans used the mg39 and mg42 (both 7.92mm) in the war, the m60 is a 7.62mm american general purpose machine gun used most famously in vietnam.


The Germans still use an updated version of the MG42 chambered for 7.62 NATO, called the MG3. Excellent piece of kit, and probably one of the better LMGs in the field, especially given the ease of barrel change.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> The Germans still use an updated version of the MG42 chambered for 7.62 NATO, called the MG3. Excellent piece of kit, and probably one of the better LMGs in the field, especially given the ease of barrel change.


i suppose if you've millions of mg42s lying about you can't just chuck them away, a quick fix to the standard nato round (as was) and away you go. a bit like the old ss camo gear they wear.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> ah! the old schmeisser! jawohl mein herr



we have accordingly corrected and acknowledged your superior nazi knowledge! thanks!


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> is the term schmeisser kosher? i have never seen it used anywhere else apart from old war comics (where also the words 'schweinhund', 'achtung' and 'aieee!' were routinely employed). i went to an arms fayre - purely for research, i wasnt dressing up! - and they all referred to it as an MP40.
> 
> .



It's colloquially a Schmeisser (and called that by a generation of German troops) even though Hugo Schmeisser didn't design it, but rather the MP18 (manufactured by the Swedes as the Bergmann smg) from which most of the firing mechanism of the MP40 was derived.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> The Germans still use an updated version of the MG42 chambered for 7.62 NATO, called the MG3. Excellent piece of kit, and probably one of the better LMGs in the field, especially given the ease of barrel change.



amazing how many lefties are knowledgable about this kind of stuff. i heard alexei sayle is a bit of a gun expert too.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 30, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i suppose if you've millions of mg42s lying about you can't just chuck them away, a quick fix to the standard nato round (as was) and away you go. a bit like the old ss camo gear they wear.





Pickman's model said:


> i suppose if you've millions of mg42s lying about you can't just chuck them away, a quick fix to the standard nato round (as was) and away you go. a bit like the old ss camo gear they wear.



Be a bit daft, wouldn't it? Okay, they'd have to machine new barrels, bolts and chambers, but the furniture and the skeleton of the guns wouldn't need changing.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

perhaps we need a new thread on nazi stuff that lefties think is cool!


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> amazing how many lefties are knowledgable about this kind of stuff. i heard alexei sayle is a bit of a gun expert too.



Unlike Alexei, though, my knowledge wasn't born of some high-minded effort to find the best weapon for a neck-shot, but from prostituting myself to her on the throne.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Be a bit daft, wouldn't it? Okay, they'd have to machine new barrels, bolts and chambers, but the furniture and the skeleton of the guns wouldn't need changing.



the correct term for this stuff (so my mate who deals in this stuff says) is a 'de-ac' or deactivated weapon. there is quite the trade on redoing them and making them work again. something to do with the firing pin. by the way this is 'malatestas' new sponsor
http://www.gunsandammo.com/
soon to be called 'malatesterone'


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> perhaps we need a new thread on nazi stuff that lefties think is cool!



The Nazis were cunts, but because Germany arguably had the best military architects, technicians and designers for the first half of the 20th century, they also produced some superbly functional yet amazingly well-designed pieces of kit, whereas the British, the Soviets and even the Yanks mostly produced stuff that was "good enough" until into the 1950s.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Unlike Alexei, though, my knowledge wasn't born of some high-minded effort to find the best weapon for a neck-shot, but from prostituting myself to her on the throne.



i am not sure why he was particularly fixated by them but hacky psychoanalysis wd say communist parents, nazi taboo, blah blah. you aint in the Combined exFarcicals by any chance are you panda?


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## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> The Nazis were cunts, but because Germany arguably had the best military architects, technicians and designers for the first half of the 20th century, they also produced some superbly functional yet amazingly well-designed pieces of kit, whereas the British, the Soviets and even the Yanks mostly produced stuff that was "good enough" until into the 1950s.



agreed, aesthetically, materially and numerically speaking very superior materiel. however, why did they wera such crap boots? they look like leather wellies! i tried some on once and they were horrible.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> the correct term for this stuff (so my mate who deals in this stuff says) is a 'de-ac' or deactivated weapon. there is quite the trade on redoing them and making them work again. something to do with the firing pin. by the way this is 'malatestas' new sponsor
> http://www.gunsandammo.com/
> soon to be called 'malatesterone'


i thought you might like my homepage: http://www.armalite.com/


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> i am not sure why he was particularly fixated by them but hacky psychoanalysis wd say communist parents, nazi taboo, blah blah. you aint in the Combined exFarcicals by any chance are you panda?



You want a smack in the cake-hole?
Jewish, anti-fascist and proud, Errico.


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## Anudder Oik (Aug 30, 2011)

Have had quite a giggle at those last few posts. Boys will be boys. Watchng people struggle with the idea that german industrial design was years ahead of the allies. It was their politics that sucked at the end of the day but unfortunately not their hardware. Hence the millions of american troops who couldn't collect enough of the stuff to ship back to the states.

Also, there was no MG39, I think he meant the MG34. I actually have a deac 34 in my house, A collector's piece captured on the russian front. An Incredibly aesthetic piece and remember, many were used against the nazis once captured. Luvly...800 bullets a minute. Much better than a Bren.

Anyway, that's enough of Dad's army for now. Been skimming decadantly over a few EDL faceaches and there isn't much about Tower Hamlets, seems a bit strange and I sense a lack of enthusiasm. They don't seem to be pushing it like previous events.

From EDL Warrington Facebook;

Michael Thepout Powell
*Any news on whats happening next sat yet like where we getting coach from and what time lads ???*

El Domingo a las 4:49 · Me gusta · Comentar






English Defence League Warrington Division dnt knw whats happnin yet m8 loads of nobs bookin seats and not paying so we cnt even afford the transport at the min, we need more ppl first come first served
 Saturday 5:13

PS, anyone know where I can pick up a cheap 1945 Meschersmitt jet fusilage?


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## malatesta32 (Aug 31, 2011)

Luvly...800 bullets a minute. Much better than a Bren.

Anyway, that's enough of Dad's army for now. Been skimming decadantly over a few EDL faceaches and there isn't much about Tower Hamlets, seems a bit strange and I sense a lack of enthusiasm. They don't seem to be pushing it like previous events.

From EDL Warrington Facebook;

Michael Thepout Powell
*Any news on whats happening next sat yet like where we getting coach from and what time lads ???*

El Domingo a las 4:49 · Me gusta · Comentar






English Defence League Warrington Division dnt knw whats happnin yet m8 loads of nobs bookin seats and not paying so we cnt even afford the transport at the min, we need more ppl first come first served
Saturday 5:13

PS, anyone know where I can pick up a cheap 1945 Meschersmitt jet fusilage?[/quote]

a certain generation of boys - who indeed, will always be boys - were bought up on the likes of victor, battle, warlord, 2000ad etc and god knows how many films (all of which shirtfront and vnn posters will claim to be revisionist) many of which fetishised nazi aesthetics. i also thought the bren gun epitomised the utilitarian and lumpy design of much british materiel. but enough already with the dad's or rather boy's army! tower hamlets is turning into more of a face saving escapade and they are getting worried over numbers. its costly for them to get there. thanks for all the responses!


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## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Also, there was no MG39, I think he meant the MG34.


yer right, it was a typo


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 31, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> Luvly...800 bullets a minute. Much better than a Bren.
> 
> Anyway, that's enough of Dad's army for now. Been skimming decadantly over a few EDL faceaches and there isn't much about Tower Hamlets, seems a bit strange and I sense a lack of enthusiasm. They don't seem to be pushing it like previous events.
> 
> ...



Bren gun was a Czech gun, designed in Brno and manufactured under licence at Enfield hence the name. 
Also a great design. Being mag-fed it had an advantage over it's belt-fed brothers, which was that it was hard to put enough ammo through it in a continuous stream to overheat the barrel (a common problem with belt-fed MGs).


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## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2011)

i hear the edl are having their get-together on saturday in the sainsbury's car park. which i can't imagine will go down too well with sainsbury's or their customers.


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## malatesta32 (Aug 31, 2011)

cant believe the way this thread is going. this is the consequence of inadequate research! however VP, surely the bren magazine limited RPM unlike the vickers, maxims etc.


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## Ranbay (Aug 31, 2011)

Don't worry I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell you what you can and can't post about on the internet.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 31, 2011)

My intuition tells me that Sainsbury's customer services/regional/head offices are getting an absolute pasting today!


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## Ranbay (Aug 31, 2011)

have the picked the static spot then? not seen any info online yet.... got any links?


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 31, 2011)

Should anyone want to register their opinions with Sainsbury's:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/sol/contact_us/contact_us.jsp


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## love detective (Aug 31, 2011)

I see the 30 day no march ban has been extended to the City of London as of Friday - which is the same day that Cleaners currently involved in a pay & conditions dispute with their ultimate employer the Corporation of London, were due to hold a rally & demonstration at the Guildhall in the City of London


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 31, 2011)

Well spotted LD!


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## love detective (Aug 31, 2011)

To be fair it wasn't me who spotted it - was just flagged up on an email list


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## Ranbay (Aug 31, 2011)

It's the one behind the blind Beggar.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 31, 2011)

Apparently, due  the complaints Sainsbury's have received today:


> Sainsburys r going 2 put out a press statement stating EDL not allowed in their car park - still to hear where edl will go instead


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 31, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> cant believe the way this thread is going. this is the consequence of inadequate research! however VP, surely the bren magazine limited RPM unlike the vickers, maxims etc.



Yes, with the direct consequence that it was a lot harder to overheat them.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 31, 2011)

Which is an interesting example of user interface design, i.e. restricting a user's ability to perform a function (in this case, fire hundreds of bullets continuously) with the consequence of definitely avoiding a worse outcome (overheating and stopping firing altogether). So in many ways the Bren gun was an early iPhone.

no, not really


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## Ranbay (Aug 31, 2011)

Well they seem to be ready for Tower Hamlets......


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 31, 2011)

Beer drinking, bacon eaters? Hardly characterising themselves as people with serious concerns.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Beer drinking, bacon eaters? Hardly characterising themselves as people with serious concerns.


and not just any beer but the shit budweiser


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## Ranbay (Aug 31, 2011)

pfft eveyone knows that how you fight of the muzzies... it's like kryptonite to them init!


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## Athos (Aug 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> pfft eveyone knows that how you fight of the muzzies... it's like kryptonite to them init!


You need a secret weapon to defeat their rayguns.


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## barney_pig (Sep 1, 2011)

There was no problem with the bren vis rpm as this isn't an issue in lmgs: short bursts at specific targets to surpress enemy fire. The mp34 and 40 also had magazines when used in this role. I am concerned at the ready acceptance that German equipment was superior, in every field this just was not the case, in tanks early war the German tanks were inferior to Czech designs, the panzer 38, a Czech tank appropriated by the basis after their takeover in 1938 was by far their best tank, and both French and British models were far better armoured and designed. Later in the war the t34 set a design standard that the Germans were never able to better. In in infantry weapons, the m1 garand and lee enfield short were far better rifles than the old 98 model rifle that most German soldiers were issued.


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## barney_pig (Sep 1, 2011)

The difference in success imo was a mixture of political and strategic factors, many of the allied powers, especially France, were more afraid of a repeat of the social revolutions that marked the end of ww1, than the enemy and sat in purely defensive positions, whilst attempting to minimise the opportunities for rebellion,ie not issuing ammunition to troops. British tank strategy placed them in purely support roles-the armour of a vickers or a Matilda mk1 were impervious to any shells the Germans cod chuck at them, and yet they were armed with machine guns.
German tactics, blitzkrieg, wasn't even German but lifted wholesale from soviet tactics of the 1920s.


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## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> pfft eveyone knows that how you fight of the muzzies... it's like kryptonite to them init!



The thing is, the majority of Muslims I know are not offended by someone eating bacon or drinking beer. They are not baited by the EDL using such things to insult them either. Such activities just underline the fact that they are really immature in their approach. It's like being faced with a kind that sticks it's tongue out at you.


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## treelover (Sep 1, 2011)

'The thing is, the majority of Muslims I know are not offended by someone eating bacon or drinking beer.'

surely no one should be, unless its in the home and the person has been invited


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 1, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> There was no problem with the bren vis rpm as this isn't an issue in lmgs: short bursts at specific targets to surpress enemy fire. The mp34 and 40 also had magazines when used in this role. I am concerned at the ready acceptance that German equipment was superior, in every field this just was not the case, in tanks early war the German tanks were inferior to Czech designs, the panzer 38, a Czech tank appropriated by the basis after their takeover in 1938 was by far their best tank, and both French and British models were far better armoured and designed. Later in the war the t34 set a design standard that the Germans were never able to better. In in infantry weapons, the m1 garand and lee enfield short were far better rifles than the old 98 model rifle that most German soldiers were issued.



On British tanks, I have only one name to speak: Mathilda. Good armour, under-powered engine and fuck-all fire-power. Abandoned in droves on the retreat to Dunkirk.

better armour is meaningless if you can't deploy properly because your tank is powered by the equivalent of a 150cc Lambretta motor.


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## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2011)

Looking good


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 1, 2011)

Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.


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## Fedayn (Sep 1, 2011)

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2011/0...liverpool-street-station-if-edl-gather-there/


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## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/notes/engli...e-tower-hamlets-demonstration/253124138055445

*Police Set Conditions for the Tower Hamlets Demonstration*




> Perhaps we should just be happy that we're allowed to demonstrate at all!
> 
> First, the Home Secretary prevented us from marching, and now we find that the EDL demonstration in Tower Hamlets this Saturday will face further complications.
> 
> ...


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## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2011)




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## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

Oh ffs lol


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 1, 2011)

It's annoying when you've got a banner, but it's just that touch too large to put on one side of your rotary washing thing. I have that problem all the time.


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## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2011)

They could have save a few quid by using one T in Prat also.


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## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

and who the fuck puts commas on a banner!


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## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2011)

The Defenders of England clearly.....


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## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2011)

Well the numbers are looking good for the "UK largest street movment"...


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## barney_pig (Sep 1, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> On British tanks, I have only one name to speak: Mathilda. Good armour, under-powered engine and fuck-all fire-power. Abandoned in droves on the retreat to Dunkirk.
> 
> better armour is meaningless if you can't deploy properly because your tank is powered by the equivalent of a 150cc Lambretta motor.


nothing wrong with a lambretta


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## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2011)

I wonder how those two pubs in Euston feel about becoming meeting points for the EDL?


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## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2011)

Numbers are all over twitter for both pubs ..... If the had any sense they would only sell soft drinks


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## Pickman's model (Sep 1, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


what i like about this picture is the fact the person with the banner and the photographer can't find a third to hold the other end.


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## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2011)

That's assuming the camera is not on a wheelie bin set on a timer.....


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## Pickman's model (Sep 1, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> That's assuming the camera is not on a wheelie bin set on a timer.....


i thought about that but i'm not sure five clothes pegs would support the whole banner while they ran back as the timer ticked down.


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## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

its long suffering wife or child prob took it


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## Treacle Toes (Sep 2, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'The thing is, the majority of Muslims I know are not offended by someone eating bacon or drinking beer.'
> 
> surely no one should be, unless its in the home and the person has been invited





> 'Surely no one should be...'



TBH I don't think it's your place to say and/or that you are missing an important point.

IME/O the hurt/insult and offense is in the attack itself/the fact that someone is trying to bait you, not what they actually do to bait you.


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## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

Well this demo is going totaly tits up.  Plod have told them they have to meet in Euston and been very vague about where they are taking them. It sounds like they are not going to get anywhere near Tower Hamlets. RMT have threatened to Strike in they are let anywhere near Liverpool Street, half full coaches are being cancelled all over the North and no one has any idea what is going on.

All they are going to get is the knuckledragging thugs who are up for a punch up with some 'pakis', those with a few more braincells are staying well clear.  This will not be the EDL's finest moment.


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## Treacle Toes (Sep 2, 2011)

Going back to those two pubs:



> *Euston Flyer*, the Licensee: Alex Stupple, it is a fullers pub. Head office number: Tel: +44 (0)20 8996 2000 and the contact email is: fullers@fullers.co.uk





> Damian O'Meara is the Manager of *O'Neills* in Euston. Their media/PR enquiries are handled by Jade Devlin or Hayley Longdin, 0121 265 2760, oneills_press@trimediauk.com



Just in case people might want to register their concern that the EDL are planning to meet there uninvited.


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## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

It seems they are having to 'muster' in Euston because the RMT will strike if they go near Liverpool Street. Spanner in works, nice one RMT.


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## The39thStep (Sep 2, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> TBH I don't think it's your place to say and/or that you are missing an important point.
> 
> IME/O the hurt/insult and offense is in the attack itself/the fact that someone is trying to bait you, not what they actually do to bait you.



Why on earth isn't it Treelovers place to say that most Muslims are not offended by people eating bacon sandwiches and drinking beer?


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## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Going back to those two pubs:
> 
> Just in case people might want to register their concern that the EDL are planning to meet there uninvited.


it's very kind of you to assist the edl in their request that their supporters not be drunk before they reach the demonstration.

by the way, people do not get invited by the landlord to pubs. generally they turn up unannounced.


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## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2011)

And you can't ban them from everywhere, it's all a bit fascist this call the pub and ban them etc...


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## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2011)

And it's more than likely the pubs have been told what is going on.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> And it's more than likely the pubs have been told what is going on.


quite.

it's better to know where the edl are than have them divided all over the bloody shop getting up to who knows what mischief.


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## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2011)

Looking at how low the turn out is likely to be, they should have just let them march, they would have two coppers each to look after them.


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## claphamboy (Sep 2, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Well this demo is going totaly tits up.



Not so such EDL, more EDLol.


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## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

Indeed, let them march the four mile. How many are fit enough to actually get there and how many will get waylaid in the pubs en route is anyone's guess. It has gone tits up whatever.  I think the Met have taken tactical advice from West Yorkshire who are experts at containing them in a car park and then telling them to fuck off.

They are threatening to go back to Tower Hamlets on the 22nd October if the police fuck it up for them (and the locals and anachists do not beat them to a pulp). The outcome of that will be the police fucking it up for them again.

Shame


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## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

Oh and things look to be going even more tits, I am hearing rumours the both pubs in Euston are shutting their doors tomorrow. Humiliated and sober.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh and things look to be going even more tits, I am hearing rumours the both pubs in Euston are shutting their doors tomorrow. Humiliated and sober.


it seems rutita1's temperance work has paid off


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## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

The confusion continues massively
Tower Hamlets update

Leadership are extremely sorry for any inconvenience that this is causing but muster points and parking has now changed.

EDL members travelling by Coach/Minibus are to be dropped off at Kings Cross, the coach/minibus must then proceed to Southwark Bridge where the Police are making arrangements for parking on the Bridge.  Link below for Southwark Bridge, which includes a map of where it is located:-

http://www.southwarkbridge.co.uk/

The Public Houses will be as follows:-

Flying Scotsman
4 Caledonian Road
London
N1 9DU

The Dun A Ri
19 Caledonian Road
London
N1 9DX

The Driver
2-4 Wharfdale Road
N1 9RY

At 2pm we will make our way to the demo point so if you are not at one of the above you won’t be going.
 Please do make sure you arrive in plenty of time, as we do not know what restrictions may be placed on travel shortly before the demonstration.
 Please can we also ask that you bring your own refreshments, as although there are a few pubs in the area, it's going to be difficult enough keeping everyone together.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2011)

busy day for housmans then.


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## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

Flying Scotsman - 0207 7837 8271
Dun A Ri - 0207 837 4863
The Driver - 0207 278 8827


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## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Flying Scotsman - 0207 7837 8271
> Dun A Ri - 0207 837 4863
> The Driver - 0207 278 8827


tbh the flying scotsman's been a right wing favourite for years so there's not much point letting them know they're going to be playing unwilling host to the edl.

i'm disappointed that you feel the need to take up the temperance cudgel from rutita1.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 2, 2011)

It amuses me greatly that they will need to lug their own cans with them as decent people won't have them on their establishments for a normal pint.

Sales of wife beater should do well in the local offies


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## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2011)

Fingers said:


> The confusion continues massively
> Tower Hamlets update
> 
> Leadership are extremely sorry for any inconvenience that this is causing but muster points and parking has now changed.
> ...



hmmm very heavy manners policing even for the EDL. after the leicester debacle - 12 forces, 1500 cops, 700 edl and still violence - the met will not want to take a PR beating for bad operations. it wd be most embarassing if just after the riots they fucked up again. the press will not be forgiving. i like how they have been told to bring their own butties and flasks cos the pubs see the edl as toxic. this is going to seriously annoy a lot of wavering EDLers, the numbers will be down and tommy slagged once again for the heavy compromise talking to cops and getting a crap deal. werent they gonna march anyway wotever plod and that theresa maynot said?
on a different note, may we apologise for railroading this threard off into a bizarre discussion on the pros and cons of the bren gun etc. all this due to bad research in the last malatesta piece. 2nd apology in a month. crikey!


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## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

Just putting it out there, the less they get to drink, the less they are likely to attack the locals. The more tits up this goes for them (and not being able to have a beer is as tits up as it can go for them) the less likely they are going to be bothered to come back. Make London as unwelcoming as possible for them I say.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2011)

given half a chance the met would fuck up even the simplest task. it's only when they have the advantage of overwhelming numbers they may get things right.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Just putting it out there, the less they get to drink, the less they are likely to attack the locals. The more tits up this goes for them (and not being able to have a beer is as tits up as it can go for them) the less likely they are going to be bothered to come back. Make London as unwelcoming as possible for them I say.


you're (rather foolishly, imo) assuming that they won't have laid in supplies to prevent a drink drought. frankly if i were in their ranks i would make damn sure i had sufficient dutch courage with me from the start of the day: and i don't drink. there'll be hip flasks and tinnies and bottles making their rounds.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 2, 2011)

it is also standard practise to get smashed on the way to somewhere if you are taking a coach or train. Saves money on pricey pints in the pub when you arrive to have a day at the beach/smash the islamic threat


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2011)

bare in mind most will come from up north and be drinking and snorting on the coach all the way down to London...... so they will be well oiled before they even get off the coach.

EDIT - didn't read the last post, but yeah that's what most people do...


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> bare in mind most will come from up north and be drinking and snorting on the coach all the way down to London...... so they will be well oiled before they even get off the coach.
> 
> EDIT - didn't read the last post, but yeah that's what most people do...


fuck it, if you were coming from bloody islington i'd get a travelling beer on the way to kings x.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2011)

In unrelated news i miss working on Southwark Bridge Road......


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 2, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> but from prostituting myself to her on the throne.



You were a rent boy for some lass on the bog?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 2, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> nothing wrong with a lambretta



Nothing wrong with a Lamvretta engine in a Lambretta, either. 

Not too good in a tank, though!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 2, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> You were a rent boy for some lass on the bog?



Pretty much.


----------



## treelover (Sep 2, 2011)

If this event fails and its likely to, the EDL may collapse, but maybe there will be new formations, perhaps a lot more subtle, but ultimately more successful and with broader support.

and all these police tactics can be used on the left in the future


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2011)

yes and that is happening already and often does with such organisations and sects where there is too much testosterone and wannabe leaders


----------



## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

It seems that Roberta Moore is going to turn up at Tower Hamlets with Lena and her motley gang of Norwegian Defence League Nazis. Most EDL members want to kill Moore so it should be interesting


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2011)

NDL going? nice one....


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2011)

yr right DDraig. the edl have splintered into NWI, NEI, and CfX, as well as that big clootie billy bunter baker's crap ENA. like the 'political' groups, ukip, British freedom fluffies etc, there are too many leaders and not enough footsoldiers. it seems the renegade EDLers  hate tommy cos he gets all the publicity and cash. the nazis, altho they attend the demos (see shirtfront website) hate the zionist aspect as well as their 'multicultural racism' stance. and as 'malatesta' has pointed many times out these are mainly vanity operations. the EDL phenomenon is their rapid escalation but their downfall is that they have fuck all strategies, no manifesto or programme and are exposed time and again for their lies and their refusal to speak to moderate muslims shows that they have no one who can argue coherently. watching tommy on sky with smug git adam boulton was illustrative of this. he cannot control his temper and comes across as a twat. speaking of bill baker, they are having a march tomorrow but arent all marches banned?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2011)

it's not in the city of London is it, and there will be about 10-20 of them is my guess.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> it's not in the city of London is it, and there will be about 10-20 of them is my guess.



ta bob. i think it was west of the city or something. he didnt turn up to last weeks british patriots society you know after organising it! will he show this time!


----------



## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

ENA Shaples's march is in Westminster I think, alongside the CxF clowns


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2011)

on facebook they are still full of bluster: we go where we want, when we want. when they clearly dont. they are also worried about finding a space to park. dont worry, they can use the park the demo will be in!


----------



## Fingers (Sep 2, 2011)

Bill  'ENA Sharples' Baker has just had a massive fallout with CxF (last night) so is should be interesting in Westminster tomorrow as well


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Bill 'ENA Sharples' Baker has just had a massive fallout with CxF (last night) so is should be interesting in Westminster tomorrow as well



fingers! you tease! more info! links! etc


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Sep 2, 2011)

sounds like its all going pete tong for the fash, the pic of the lad with the farmfood rashers and a can of bud sums them up


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 2, 2011)

Where has CxF come from? Totally missed their split. Any just give me a brief paragraph to run me up to speed.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2011)

They where EDL but didnt like Tommy or something? same idiots diffrent name.

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/combined-ex-forces/cxf-write-to-tommy

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-plymouth-fiasco-the-aftermath


----------



## john x (Sep 2, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> bare in mind most will come from up north



Yeah?

Coaches from Stoke, Liverpool and Rochdale are cancelled.

Huddersfield, Halifax, Hull, Dewsbury and Bradford are struggling to fill enough seats to pay the deposit on their buses!

John X



> *English Defence League - London Region*
> Tomorrows weather will be a mixture of cloud and sunshine, top temperatures of 25. In the Islamic State of Tower Hamlets it will be hot, hot, hot. Sun block, a hat and a big St. George Flag is advisable.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 3, 2011)

Interesting story here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/02/english-defence-league-muslims-police
"If you want to understand why the police are not to be relied upon when dealing with the far right, this story offers part of the answer:

Scotland Yard has been accused of underestimating the threat from the English Defence League (EDL) after the head of the unit monitoring hate groups declared it was not an extremist organisation.
In an email obtained by the Guardian, Adrian Tudway, National Co-ordinator for Domestic Extremism, said he formed the view the EDL were not extreme after reading their website. 
Today the EDL, accused by Muslims of fostering hate against them, will stage a "static" demonstration in Tower Hamlets, east London, in one of their most potentially provocative displays so far.
The Metropolitan police obtained a ban against a planned march through east London by the EDL, fearing clashes with anti-fascist groups and also the prospect of British Muslim youths taking to the streets to defend their communities against feared racist attacks.
British Muslims have claimed police have not done enough to protect them against the EDL.
In an email sent on 27 April 2011, Tudway told a Muslim group they should try opening up a "line of dialogue" with the EDL, who have been accused of staging attacks and directing hostility at British Muslims.
Tudway wrote: "In terms of the position with EDL, the original stance stands, they are not extreme right wing as a group, indeed if you look at their published material on their web-site, they are actively moving away from the right and violence with their mission statement etc.
"As we discussed last time we met, I really think you need to open a direct line of dialogue with them, that might be the best way to engage them and re-direct their activity?"  "


----------



## john x (Sep 3, 2011)

ska invita said:


> I really think you need to open a direct line of dialogue with them"





John X


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 3, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh the flying scotsman's been a right wing favourite for years so there's not much point letting them know they're going to be playing unwilling host to the edl.
> 
> i'm disappointed that you feel the need to take up the temperance cudgel from rutita1.



How about you fuck off being oh so dramatically negative about what I think and what I suggest and actually _do_ something or _suggest_ something yourself?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 3, 2011)

treelover said:


> If this event fails and its likely to, the EDL may collapse, but maybe there will be new formations, perhaps a lot more subtle, but ultimately more successful and with broader support.
> 
> and all these police tactics can be used on the left in the future



I suspect it won't be a success, but the true faithful have probably put up with worse (Blackburn and the St Georges day FB takedown) - more a dribbling away to an even smaller rabble than a total collapse. New formations? yes. No reason to think they would be more successful at this juncture. It takes a lot of factors and a favourable wind.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> bare in mind most will come from up north and be drinking and snorting on the coach all the way down to London...... so they will be well oiled before they even get off the coach.
> 
> EDIT - didn't read the last post, but yeah that's what most people do...



Thing is if you are tanked up on booze or charlied up and then have to go on a long wonder, well the energy levels soon drop don't they?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> How about you fuck off being oh so dramatically negative about what I think and what I suggest and actually _do_ something or _suggest_ something yourself?


why don't you shut the fuck up when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

http://www.nuj.org.uk/innerPagenuj.html?docid=2232

*The EDL should not target journalists working in London on Saturday*


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

> *English Defence League EDL*
> 
> *Kings Cross - Police are section 60ing everyone already.*


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/6faz8j

Lorraine Dobson gets section 27


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

reports indicate police throughout tower hamlets. it seems edl demo at aldgate east: not yet verified.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/6fbomg

Tommy on the way, will they nick him before or after his speech 

Is Aldgate even in Tower Hamlets? i know it's close....


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 3, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> reports indicate police throughout tower hamlets. it seems edl demo at aldgate east: not yet verified.



They not having it at Whitchapel Sainsbury's then?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

Nope, Sainsburys told them to fuck off.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

there are about 35 edl at liverpool street, edl jumping the barriers at kings x, police everywhere, uaf setting up about 200 there


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

make that 35 pissed edl at liverpool street


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Apparently the RMT are refusing to allow the EDL to use their stations!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

EDL coach coming from Oxford had its tyres cut at a service station lol


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Hanna Weiss 'warning to all' pubs in Tower Hamlets ordered by police not the serve #EDL & posts landlords details http://twitpic.com/6fc583


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

500 edl in pubs between euston and kings x; tsg apparently on their way to big chill

2 coach loads just arrived at kings x


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 3, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> 500 edl in pubs between euston and kings x; *tsg apparently on their way to big chill*
> 
> 2 coach loads just arrived at kings x



???


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

The Big Chill House, on Pentonville Road, on the junction Kings Cross Road.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/6fcdbz


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

Big Chill house

http://twitpic.com/6fcadv


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

and the other side..,...

http://yfrog.com/h6mkhyhj


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> and the other side..,...
> 
> http://yfrog.com/h6mkhyhj




A nice sunny day in London, there will be a few edl heading home looking like boiled bollocks.


----------



## toblerone3 (Sep 3, 2011)

Helicopter flying overhead in a tight circle around the station. Heard some chants about an hour ago.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

http://yfrog.com/g0w6dlj

*first kettle of the day outside a pub in Kings cross*


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

*Looks like #EDL containment area will be rear of RBS by Aldgate East, big fairly empty area, containable at both ends and lots of CCTV... via @julesmattsson*


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

500 edl still pubs euston - kings x

50+ edl liverpool street

scuffles o/s big chill; lots of edl o/s flying scotsman; police descending to control mob


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> and the other side..,...
> 
> http://yfrog.com/h6mkhyhj



Italian partisan association flag in the middle.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> 500 edl still pubs euston - kings x
> 
> 50+ edl liverpool street
> 
> scuffles o/s big chill; lots of edl o/s flying scotsman; police descending to control mob


 
http://twitpic.com/6fcv40


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

*Update from Tower Hamlets: The police began escorting the EDL towards Kings Cross station only to find the RMT have closed the tube station. There's 300+ EDL outside the station and no-one has a clue what is happening.*

http://yfrog.com/mebmtpj


----------



## treelover (Sep 3, 2011)

why not just post a link to the HNH blog...


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

you post a link to it if you want, im not using it or on it.

but thanks for asking.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 3, 2011)

Something to smile about at least. Bye bye EDL...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 3, 2011)

They are apparently now being escorted by tube from King's X to Moorgate. (Radio news report)


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

read up, they closed Kings X station


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

well now they seem to be letting them use the tube?

http://twitpic.com/6fdre0


----------



## krink (Sep 3, 2011)

keep up grandad, it opened again about 10 minutes later!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

Cheers


----------



## krink (Sep 3, 2011)

Does anyone know if anything is happening at the moment in the TH area rather than where the edl are? cheers.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *Update from Tower Hamlets: The police began escorting the EDL towards Kings Cross station only to find the RMT have closed the tube station. There's 300+ EDL outside the station and no-one has a clue what is happening.*
> 
> http://yfrog.com/mebmtpj


 


> posted by: Nick Lowles | on: _Saturday, 3 September 2011, 13:47_
> The police began escorting the EDL towards Kings Cross station only to find the RMT have closed the tube station. There's 300+ EDL outside the station and no-one has a clue what is happening.


----------



## krink (Sep 3, 2011)

> It seems that Kings Cross station is now open and a group of 500+ EDL are coming on the tube. We've heard that they will come into Liverpool Street, where they will link up with 3-400 already there.


 nick lowles 13.50


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2011)

these sad sacks haven't even made radio news yet.


----------



## krink (Sep 3, 2011)

i'm confused now as i don't know london. so they're all being herded towards liverpool street and is that near the place they're meant to be having the demo (aldgate)? ta.


----------



## albionism (Sep 3, 2011)

Yes, not far at all


----------



## krink (Sep 3, 2011)

cheers mate.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

Awesome, I still didnt get it from the HNH blog or page tho..... sorry about that.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

So Is Aldgate in tower hamlets or not? i know it's very close if not, not lived in Lonbdon for many years so can't recall.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 3, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> these sad sacks haven't even made radio news yet.



The demo is being mentioned on LBC News 1152.


----------



## john x (Sep 3, 2011)

krink said:


> i'm confused now as i don't know london. so they're all being herded towards liverpool street and is that near the place they're meant to be having the demo (aldgate)? ta.



Yes, if they are coming from Kings X then it is in roughly that direction.

John X


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> So Is Aldgate in tower hamlets or not? i know it's very close if not, not lived in Lonbdon for many years so can't recall.



Aldgate itself is City of London, but I think Aldgate East is roughly where it meets Tower Hamlets. Aldgate is a mile or so from Whitechapel, basically follows the Whitechapel Road.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Robinson's broken bail conditions - dressed as a rabbi

http://yfrog.com/075tbpz


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

Just been nicked and now it's kicking off....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Yep!


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2011)

Dressed as a fucking rabbi. Dear oh dear, these lot are beyond parody


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

About Tommy getting nicked.... 



> i hav it confirmed off 4 loyal members that this is correct, surely thats a breach of his human rights? freedom of speech n all that


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Thick as fuck.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 3, 2011)

how lovely to see the EDL concerned about human rights


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> how lovely to see the EDL concerned about human rights



Did you not know they are a Human Rights org?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Team Poison strike -

http://pastie.org/2476220


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

There now saying he's not been nicked?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 3, 2011)

just been down there, i estimate ~800 of the fucking idiots been marched to space of road near st botolphs church, just up the road from aldgate east tube station, where the uaf were gathered. cops have ~500 yards between the 2 groups. saw a few arrests being made, still a few fuckwits outside pub in liverpool street.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 3, 2011)

Have the local communities turned out?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/historyhistory#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=8660369&utm_medium=social

Watch from 5:50 to see Tommy Robinson getting nicked!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 3, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Have the local communities turned out?


of course they have.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 3, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> of course they have.



Numbers?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

some pics here of the anit EDL stuff

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=25914

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=25913


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 3, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Numbers?


in numbers, yes. many more than the knuckledraggers. they live there, where else are they going to go?


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/historyhistory#utm_campaign=t.co&utm_source=8660369&utm_medium=social
> 
> Watch from 5:50 to see Tommy Robinson getting nicked!



very difficult to see anything on that vid


----------



## skitr (Sep 3, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Robinson's broken bail conditions - dressed as a rabbi
> 
> http://yfrog.com/075tbpz



Best thing was, one of the EDL fb's reported he was dressed as a rabbit.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

lol yeah, i did see that


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 3, 2011)

some pics

http://www.flickr.com/photos/85077224@N00/sets/72157627459322893/


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> some pics
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/85077224@N00/sets/72157627459322893/



There is an EDL marcher on 0320 a bit worse for wear


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Apparently an EDL member just tried to head butt a copper & got nicked - #edlfail


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 3, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> There is an EDL marcher on 0320 a bit worse for wear


loads of them were fucked, slurring, wobbling, red faced and sweaty.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

@TeaMp0isoN CANT FIND THE EDL AT THE PROTEST? RING THEM & ASK THEM WHERE THEY ARE- #EDL MEMBERS MOBILE NUMBERS LEAKED http://pastie.org/2476139 #TeaMp0isoN


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> loads of them were fucked, slurring, wobbling, red faced and sweaty.



Isn't that normal behaviour?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

kicking off down cable street - edl v ? awaiting details


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> kicking off down cable street - edl v ? awaiting details


 
how apt


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

> English Defence League EDL
> *EDL 1 Tower hamlets nil ! We came , we marched ! Nuff said , No surrender*


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

oops - several hundred edl kettled on tower bridge, nothing happening on cable street.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

Nice peoples.


----------



## little_legs (Sep 3, 2011)

lots of police and ambulance cars at London Bridge
4 helicopters are hovering too
Borough High Street is a carpark


----------



## treelover (Sep 3, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Team Poison strike -
> 
> http://pastie.org/2476220


 
How does this differ from Redwatch?

adolescents....


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 3, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Robinson's broken bail conditions - dressed as a rabbi
> 
> http://yfrog.com/075tbpz



I read that as 'dressed as a rabbit'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2011)

treelover said:


> How does this differ from Redwatch?
> 
> adolescents....


i don't think team poison are a bunch of national socialists posting up random people of pictures who've been on demonstrations.


----------



## treelover (Sep 3, 2011)

posting names, addresses, etc  of members of families, children is not on, don't try and fucking justify it,...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

Not forgetting mobile numbers, usernames & passwords


----------



## treelover (Sep 3, 2011)

'When the EDL arrived in Aldgate carrying flags displaying the Union Jack and Stars and Stripes the chanting began with calls for it to be removed from 'our' streets and that if it was not for the 'coppers' they would be dead.'

Now I wonder who these people were, certainly not Smith and Co

oh, and theres this

'A group of Antifa looking for EDL who I'm in contact with have just been attacked by a group of Asians under the impression that they were EDL fascists with currently recieving treatment for head injuries.'


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2011)

The Union Flag you mean.


----------



## treelover (Sep 3, 2011)

@mr bishie,

you twat, have you been on the receiving end of Redwatch, i have, this is similar


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Nice peoples.




I can't quite make out what that copper said to him but he went from big balls to 'i won't kick off' quite quickly.

maybe one of those low toned sincere threats the met are good at.


----------



## treelover (Sep 3, 2011)

anyway, now the circus is over, perhaps the left might look into into the coming second financial crash and its implications for the masses, look at U.S markets, they have bombed again...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

treelover said:


> anyway, now the circus is over, perhaps the left might look into into the coming second financial crash and its implications for the masses, look at U.S markets, they have bombed again...



Wrong thread.

Resorting to insults too, how big of you. Well done.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2011)

EDL bus has just had it's windows smashed by a large group of local youth while driving passed Whitechapel mosque.

Oh well, it'll only be a bit breezy on the way back


----------



## ddraig (Sep 3, 2011)

from 50 seconds in
http://yfrog.com/08bioz



> *jamesdoleman* James Doleman
> 
> *#**edl* member attacks a cameraman in Tower Hamlets, Hilarity ensues (from 0.50) yfrog.com/08bioz


----------



## skitr (Sep 4, 2011)

Journo set on fire...


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2011)

skitr said:


> Journo set on fire...


yes, minor burns, lighter fluid, jules mattheson


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 4, 2011)

Tommy was arrested some time last night the main page says....

Two teir system in it.... he was defending his cuntry FFS.....


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 4, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> EDL bus has just had it's windows smashed by a large group of local youth while driving passed Whitechapel mosque.
> 
> Oh well, it'll only be a bit breezy on the way back


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 4, 2011)

http://yfrog.com/075tbpz

tommy's disguise


----------



## manny-p (Sep 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Nice peoples.




Another lovely Rangers fan.


----------



## john x (Sep 4, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


>




Interesting that the bus driver didn't drive straight off when the road ahead was clear.

And also interesting that after two weeks of "Kill Mozzie scum" "Burn all the Mosks" and "they're 'are' streets and we'll march on them if we want", when confronted by a handful of real Asian youth, they just stand up, shout and give the V sign.

Some master race! 

John X

Edited to add: According to the BBC the coach had broken down. The EDL had been involved in a fracas earlier and all 44 were arrested when plod arrived on the scene.


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2011)

treelover said:


> anyway, now the circus is over, perhaps the left might look into into the coming second financial crash and its implications for the masses, look at U.S markets, they have bombed again...


Can you tell me what 'the left' is please?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 4, 2011)

Anyone who is not in the EDL clearly.....


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Anyone who is not in the EDL clearly.....


shurely 'anyone who is not clearly in the edl...'


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 4, 2011)

Clearly.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 5, 2011)

Strong suggestion that they want to protest in Manchester early October. Personally, I am waiting for strong 2nd source confirmation. Last time around was early last year I think (maybe late 2009) - was a bit messy overall. Good-ish anti turnout. Although numbers and morale are generally down, there are lot of locals who could be sucked in to the wrong side of the vibe for the day so would expect a success relative to recent debacles.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

says 8th October on their main wall...


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

Maybe nobody should turn up, everyone stay at home, let them turn up to no counter demo, no press etc...


----------



## john x (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> says 8th October on their main wall...


What is their main wall now?

There seem to be tons of EDL pages, most of which seem to be abandoned to those who have hacked them.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

Get you the link after on iPad at the mo



http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/tommy-remanded-in-custody/


Tommy on remand


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2011)

here's hoping he goes on hunger strike. i'd give him till teatime.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 5, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> here's hoping he goes on hunger strike. i'd give him till teatime.



Well, according to a blog posting at the Hope Not Hate site, that's precisely what he's doing: http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1391/edl-leader-on-hunger-strike . I haven't seen any confirmation of this anywhere else so far...


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 5, 2011)

Here's some more on that divvy EDL coach transporting the "Clueless or Bermuda Triangle division".

Before the double decker bus was brought to evacuate them, locals gathered and shouted at them. Minute 0.57 "_This is East London_"



Earlier, back down the road when the windows were being caved in, an EDL angel was punched and fell out of the emergency exit onto the pavement and then the coach drove off leaving her behind. She was kicked up the backside by a (white UAF?) but then some asian people picked her up and escorted her away.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

What makes you think it was UAF member?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> What makes you think it was UAF member?



I put a question mark on that so no confirmation. Could've been anybody. Just seen another video of 2 guys boasting about it and they look UAF types to me...


----------



## treelover (Sep 5, 2011)

Has there been any analysis of the familial backgrounds of the EDL?, i will bet amongst the casuals, nutters, r/w skins, ex NF, etc there will be a fair few whose parents/grandparents were trade unionists, maybe even convenors, and who were brought up as LP supporters, etc, the left has lost these people to the right and maybe needs to look at why this is..


----------



## treelover (Sep 5, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> I put a question mark on that so no confirmation. Could've been anybody. Just seen another video of 2 guys boasting about it and they look UAF types to me...


 
what, boasting about kicking a woman in the backside after she fell out of the coach, very brave...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 5, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> I put a question mark on that so no confirmation. Could've been anybody. Just seen another video of 2 guys boasting about it and they look UAF types to me...



is this the one?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

yeah, that's why i asked, but it's clear that anyboy white and not wearing a England flag is UAF.


----------



## treelover (Sep 5, 2011)

pure class hatred from the middle class twats..


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

Theres a link on there to the close up of the kick.

i neve noticed it in the other video.

She must have opend the door to get out, you can't open them from the outside.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> what, boasting about kicking a woman in the backside after she fell out of the coach, very brave...



Yeah it's a bit of a video nasty, sickening. They even laugh. I cringed at the video. There's no proof they are UAF but it's the UAF who'll get the blame.


----------



## john x (Sep 5, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yeah it's a bit of a video nasty, sickening. They even laugh. I cringed at the video. There's no proof they are UAF but it's the UAF who'll get the blame.



I think we are all getting a little bit too precious here.

She was one of a group of people who had come to London with the express intention of striking fear into the local community. They have spent the last two weeks winding themselves up into a frenzy of "Kill Mozzy scum!", and "Burn all the Mosques!" If one of them makes the mistake of thinking she can scream insults from the safety of a bus then 'falls' out and gets a kicking then she really doesn't have anyone to blame but herself.

I'll save my sympathy for someone more deserving.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

Well she got off the bus for a reason.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Well she got off the bus for a reason.


It is her reasons for being on the bus that I take issue with.


----------



## skitr (Sep 5, 2011)

I've just read a thread where people complain about UAF being not "smash the EDL" enough, and then when something happens to an EDL member, as John x explained, there's criticism.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

everyone is either EDL-UAF-MDL

there is nobody else.....


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 5, 2011)

Them guys on the video laughing at the woman getting kicked are dickheads, but they're not dickheads for laughing at an EDL member been kicked.

The Manchester EDL demo is on the same date as an Republican demo in Liverpool (also the same date as the Angels demo in London). After the last time Casuals United came to Manchester and crapped it every time they saw the 32 County Sovereignty Movement I can see this not being a coincidence. Then again, I think they just pluck the dates out of the air or according the the football schedule.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> Has there been any analysis of the familial backgrounds of the EDL?, i will bet amongst the casuals, nutters, r/w skins, ex NF, etc there will be a fair few whose parents/grandparents were trade unionists, maybe even convenors, and who were brought up as LP supporters, etc, the left has lost these people to the right and maybe needs to look at why this is..


 
There has been a brief study earlier this year/late last year which included which party the EDL members interviwed voted for and it painted a very mixed picture between Tories and Labour. Can't find it but I think it was a University research project in the Midlands.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 5, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Well, according to a blog posting at the Hope Not Hate site, that's precisely what he's doing: http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1391/edl-leader-on-hunger-strike . I haven't seen any confirmation of this anywhere else so far...



Astonishing that the HnH site has  'they did not pass' as a headline when in fact it was the Police who did not let them pass rather than the counterdemo.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> Has there been any analysis of the familial backgrounds of the EDL?, i will bet amongst the casuals, nutters, r/w skins, ex NF, etc there will be a fair few whose parents/grandparents were trade unionists, maybe even convenors, and who were brought up as LP supporters, etc, the left has lost these people to the right and maybe needs to look at why this is..



Now and again you still say something worth reading, well done.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/13200


----------



## treelover (Sep 5, 2011)

'I'll save my sympathy for someone more deserving.'

I'm talking about the nature of the very patronising and maybe revealing comments from the two tarquins, not the violence, they remind me of the sort of students who broke the general strike...


----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2011)

wow, are you really that old??!!


----------



## treelover (Sep 5, 2011)

'also the same date as the Angels demo in London'

Hells Angels?


----------



## john x (Sep 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> I'm talking about the nature of the very patronising and maybe revealing comments from the two tarquins, not the violence, they remind me of the sort of students who broke the general strike...



Who gives a shit what two randoms interviewed in the street have to say? What have their opinions got to do with the rights or wrongs of physically confronting facists when they mobilise in public?

john x


----------



## emanymton (Sep 5, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Astonishing that the HnH site has 'they did not pass' as a headline when in fact it was the Police who did not let them pass rather than the counterdemo.


And if no one was expected to turn out to oppose them do you think the police would have let them have their march or not?


----------



## treelover (Sep 5, 2011)

Are they all fascists, john X?


----------



## john x (Sep 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> Are they all fascists, john X?


 
No, of course not but if they align themselves with fascists then they have to be aware of the consequences.

Remember these arn't just the idiots who were spouting off on facebook all week, they were the idiots that were motivated enough to actually get up in the morning and get on a bus to go and try and bring fear to a community.

We all have to take responsibility for our actions.

John X


----------



## krink (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/13200



number of signatures......7


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 5, 2011)

Helen Sheila Growler


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

*LEADERSHIP STATEMENT RE MANCHESTER AND ANGEL'S DEMOS*




> Due to the Angel's demo being overlooked (sorry girls)  and the cowardly attack on one of our angels by the scum in Tower Hamlets we are postponing the Manchester demo so we can give the angels demo better support as we think we should be there with them because it's now blatantly obvious these slimeballs have no respect for women .We apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused as we realise some people have already started to make plans.                                                                                           The re-scheduled date will be released in due course,thanks NO SURRENDER!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/edl_leader_on_hunger_strike_in_custody_1_3028437

*EDL leader ‘on hunger strike’ in custody*


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

krink said:


> number of signatures......7



19 now... bare in mind this is the UK bigest street movment you are dealing with.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

Meet Joanne Dickens, the "lady" who fell off the bus.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/13200



Number of signatures:26


----------



## krink (Sep 5, 2011)

Lennon is such a fucking media tart. Hunger strike for fuck's sake, he'll be looking for beatification next...


----------



## Deareg (Sep 5, 2011)

The Manchester demo has been cancelled.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

Up there... ^


----------



## emanymton (Sep 5, 2011)

Deareg said:


> The Manchester demo has been cancelled.


Nothing at all to do with the NWI demo on the same day of course, and technically it is only postponed not cancelled.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 5, 2011)

*Astroturfing the EDL *

Center for Security Policy's project Vigilant Freedom & the English Defence League
http://bit.ly/nSceyB


----------



## Corax (Sep 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> Has there been any analysis of the familial backgrounds of the EDL?, i will bet amongst the casuals, nutters, r/w skins, ex NF, etc there will be a fair few whose parents/grandparents were trade unionists, maybe even convenors, and who were brought up as LP supporters, etc, the left has lost these people to the right and maybe needs to look at why this is..


Post #4440?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 5, 2011)

Are the trade-unions and labour party leftwing?

I thought the only leftwing labour movement was the IWW.


----------



## thriller (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Theres a link on there to the close up of the kick.
> 
> i neve noticed it in the other video.
> 
> She must have opend the door to get out, you can't open them from the outside.



where is this link?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

thriller said:


> where is this link?


----------



## thriller (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




cheers.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

you can tell He's UAF as he's not a Muslim and he's not waving a flag.......


----------



## john x (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> you can tell He's UAF as he's not a Muslim and he's not waving a flag.......



He's wearing a Chelsea top though! 

John X


----------



## skitr (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> everyone is either EDL-UAF-MDL
> 
> there is nobody else.....


I was meaning anti fasc in general, which I should have said, but the majority is directed towards UAF.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

skitr said:


> I was meaning anti fasc in general, which I should have said, but the majority is directed towards UAF.



It wasnt aimed at you mate, was the genreal if people are not EDL then they must be UAF..... if they are white.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2011)

This is the lady that got off the coach,

she was not badly hurt it seems, someone was trying to say she had her Jaw broken, this was taken after the incident.


----------



## john x (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> someone was trying to say she had her Jaw broken, this was taken after the incident.



Not easy to tell from that photograph! 

john x


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 5, 2011)

emanymton said:


> And if no one was expected to turn out to oppose them do you think the police would have let them have their march or not?



So it was the risk of there being a counterdemo that meant that they could only have a static rally?


----------



## albionism (Sep 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> This is the lady that got off the coach,
> 
> she was not badly hurt it seems, someone was trying to say she had her Jaw broken, this was taken after the incident.


certainly looks like an "angel" with the nazi tattoo on her tit.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 5, 2011)

Deareg said:


> The Manchester demo has been cancelled.



Old gags revisited: EDL - Know Surrender!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 5, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> So it was the risk of there being a counterdemo that meant that they could only have a static rally?



Not neccessarily any way of knowing, but it must up the chances.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Old gags revisited: EDL - Know Surrender!


i saw that very phrase on the edl facebook page on saturday


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 5, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Astonishing that the HnH site has 'they did not pass' as a headline when in fact it was the Police who did not let them pass rather than the counterdemo.



Indeed so - there's something almost Monty Pythonesque about that particular bit of, um, self bigging-up by the Searchlight lot there.  Presumably it was Nick Lowles himself directing the police on the ground?


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 5, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Not neccessarily any way of knowing, but it must up the chances.



Given the fact that all marches were banned and that the Police would only facilitate a static demo/rally I am not sure how anyone could in all honesty try  and link the counter protest to stopping the EDL from marching.Whether or not there was a counterprotest  the ban still applied and the old bill would apply the ban.


----------



## treelover (Sep 6, 2011)

Wheres the Chips!
http://london.indymedia.org/articles/10121

'rikki' of indymedia fame gets in on the class prejudice theme, but there is a good reply to his comments


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2011)

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/420/8838347841.png


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2011)

More from the angel


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 6, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Given the fact that all marches were banned and that the Police would only facilitate a static demo/rally I am not sure how anyone could in all honesty try and link the counter protest to stopping the EDL from marching.Whether or not there was a counterprotest the ban still applied and the old bill would apply the ban.



Sorry, could be cross purposes there. With reference to this specific march you may have a point, I was thinking more generally. Still, as discussed here and elsewhere - the banning of all marches appears to have been opportunist using the EDL as a blag to do so.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 6, 2011)

lulz... 'Tommy Robinson' is currently being held under rule 43..... In with the sex offenders et al....


----------



## manny-p (Sep 6, 2011)

albionism said:


> certainly looks like an "angel" with the nazi tattoo on her tit.


she got away lightly


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> This is the lady that got off the coach,
> 
> she was not badly hurt it seems, someone was trying to say she had her Jaw broken, this was taken after the incident.



How the fuck can you describe her as a 'lady'?


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 6, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> lulz... 'Tommy Robinson' is currently being held under rule 43..... In with the sex offenders et al....



This, together with the news that Griffin had he car lifted, is certainly making this a very positive week.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> This is the lady that got off the coach,
> 
> she was not badly hurt it seems, someone was trying to say she had her Jaw broken, this was taken after the incident.



Not sure if this was an after-incident photograph - a video surfaced which says was before her leap from that unfortunate coach, talking to an arrested EDL member:


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2011)

All in all, a top day out for her then?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 6, 2011)




----------



## albionism (Sep 6, 2011)

Never has a man looked so much like a Billy No Mates.


----------



## albionism (Sep 6, 2011)

Mind you, he might very well be Antifa for all we know.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 6, 2011)

albionism said:


> Mind you, he might very well be Antifa for all we know.



he's obviously keeping his head down


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




TBH, from that video it is not clear that she was kicked at all. Regardless of who she is I don't think anyone should be running up to her and kicking her whilst she is on the floor anyway. From that video, especially the slowed down version it seems like someone if running over to her, could have been to her rescue, who knows.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 6, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Free-SIR-Tommy-Robinson/265179136843425


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 6, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Free-SIR-Tommy-Robinson/265179136843425





> Free SIR Tommy Robinson
> 
> How come our numbers are falling!? Where's all the brave EDL support for a wrongly imprisoned gentleman!? DISGUSTING, it's like they've all realised they're thick wankers and left the scene.
> 
> RONALD, WHERE ART THOU BRAVE RONALD MCDONALD? I liked him.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Not sure if this was an after-incident photograph - a video surfaced which says was before her leap from that unfortunate coach, talking to an arrested EDL member:



If you look carefully she has either pissed herself or sat in some beer.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 6, 2011)

Fingers said:


> If you look carefully she has either pissed herself or sat in some beer.


It's the lack of bleach/stonewash - nothing more.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

Maybe you are right there Luther.

I have been chatting with her on Facebook this morning she claims the tat on her tit is a celtic cross and claimed she was not racist until the screenshots which were posted earlier in the thread were produced (and some more worse ones that are not on that thread) She rather swiftly fucked off after that and refused to engage.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 6, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Maybe you are right there Luther.
> 
> I have been chatting with her on Facebook this morning she claims the tat on her tit is a celtic cross and claimed she was not racist until the screenshots which were posted earlier in the thread were produced (and some more worse ones that are not on that thread) She rather swiftly fucked off after that and refused to engage.


It's both a Celtic cross and a symbol used by white power groups. The style she is using is more akin to the white power group stuff, and a quick look at her facebook groups shows her to be a BNP/Nick Griffin supporter among other things. Oy, and definitely a full blown racist. Shame you didn't draw her out on her new-found affection for Jews as I would have loved some screenshots of that to fling about the blogosphere, though I suspect Israel for these particular pro-segregationist/ethnic cleansing supporters is just a convenient holding place for Jews to be shunted to. Racist fucks the lot of them. But did she deserve a kicking? Definitely not.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

Quite, she only made about three posts before she was outed and scarpered so didn't get chance to screenshot.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 6, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


>



scruffy cunt


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 6, 2011)

you lot have too much free time


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 6, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> you lot have too much free time


I spend my time researching so articles like this can be written. I can't be arsed with going after the members. Occasionally they attempt debate with me via twitter, but not often. I'm banned (so much for free speech) from all the EDL boards.

*Astroturfing the EDL *

Center for Security Policy's project Vigilant Freedom & the English Defence League
http://bit.ly/nSceyB


----------



## john x (Sep 6, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> How the fuck can you describe her as a 'lady'?





Fedayn said:


> scruffy cunt



Can we lay off the personal comments?

These people are scum because of what they believe and how they act.

How they look has no bearing on anything!

john x


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 6, 2011)

john x said:


> Can we lay off the personal comments?
> 
> *These people are scum because of what they believe and how they act.*
> 
> ...



And the bit I've put in bold is the reason why I questioned how the fuck she can be described as a 'lady', nothing to do with how she looks, so jog on john-boy.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

Nottingham issue a statement about the coach fiascos

*STATMENT: Tower Hamlets 03/09/11*


By
Nottm_Patriot
– September 6, 2011*Posted in: *News


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

and coming up later, news of and EDL child sex abuser which will make pricey look like mother theresa - after i have checked a few facts


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2011)

Is that the guy who was NWI?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 6, 2011)

Yes, it's the one from the NWI


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 6, 2011)

john x said:


> Can we lay off the personal comments?
> 
> These people are scum because of what they believe and how they act.
> 
> ...



He believes he looks good, ergo he's a cunt. He's supposed to be a skinhead, he's a fucking embarrassment, a classless clueless muggy cunt. A scruffy cunt. End of.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2011)

Snowy stuck out a stament but i think they took it down? it was on exspose but i couldnt find the orgianl posts.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

Yeah it is, some more information has come to light


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

post it all shortly


----------



## skitr (Sep 6, 2011)

Didn't read above.


----------



## john x (Sep 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Snowy stuck out a stament but i think they took it down? it was on exspose but i couldnt find the orgianl posts.


Is this it?

http://twitpic.com/6gkymc/full

John X


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2011)

yeah that was the one i read the other day, but when i went to see anymore posts it was gone.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2011)

john x said:


> Can we lay off the personal comments?
> 
> These people are scum because of what they believe and how they act.
> 
> ...


looks have nothing to with being a 'lady'


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/another-edl-child-sex-offender-revealed


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 6, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> I spend my time researching so articles like this can be written. I can't be arsed with going after the members. Occasionally they attempt debate with me via twitter, but not often. I'm banned (so much for free speech) from all the EDL boards.
> 
> *Astroturfing the EDL *
> 
> ...



sounds like you need a job - unless you get paid for all this research


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 6, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Nottingham issue a statement about the coach fiascos
> 
> *STATMENT: Tower Hamlets 03/09/11*
> 
> ...



Sidesplitting. Very funny stuff. Some classic quotes from it...



> We must have been 20/30mins into the journey when we pulled up in traffic instantly we are all aware that we were in fact outside of a mosque


 LOL...

Love this bit..



> personally i was shocked and this must be a mistake and checked the toilets asked everyone to check the floor(fuck i even checked the roof…) but we couldn’t find her



Checked the roof? What is she a fuckin Bat?

Probably checked the floor but there was so much vomit he couldn't tell if she was there or not.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 6, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> He believes he looks good, ergo he's a cunt. He's supposed to be a skinhead, he's a fucking embarrassment, a classless clueless muggy cunt. A scruffy cunt. End of.



He should take a look at the book you have for an Avatar and sort himself out.


----------



## The Black Hand (Sep 6, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Old gags revisited: EDL - Know Surrender!


I like this


----------



## Fingers (Sep 6, 2011)

Nottss Division shitting it on their replacement bus as they are chased out of Mile End

Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PnrmDGaqg


----------



## The Black Hand (Sep 6, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> How the fuck can you describe her as a 'lady'?


Exactly. For those who spot body disfigurement. She definately has had substance issues of unknown size/quantity, and this probably includes alcohol at some stage, but almost certainly she is a very experienced drug user.
I'm jus commenting like


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 6, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Nottss Division shitting it on their replacement bus as they are chased out of Mile End
> 
> Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PnrmDGaqg


apparently that video contained a malformed video id. so it can't be watched.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2011)

Can't link from phone, ignore this


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 7, 2011)

*Yesterday's News*

More-splits-than-Trots Roberta retakes reins of Unpopular Kahanist Front after rival semi-fictitious JDiv emerges


----------



## Fingers (Sep 7, 2011)

Notice Roberta and Hell are now having this bitch fight slug out whilst Tommy is banged up. I am not sure which is the official one or not as the new one is linked and promoted on the EDL's Website but Roberta was at the demo on Saturday and claimed to have helped dress Tommy up as a comedy Rabbi.  I suspect with these two mental battleaxes on the the warpath he would prefer to be in the nick, even if they only serve Halal gruel.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 7, 2011)

*Which bit of LO don’t EDL understand? The ל ‎or the א‎ ?*
Neither of EDL's two semi-fictitious Jewish Divisions are official as British Jews have declined offer to participate in EDL's anti-Muslim-hate-fest and have even advised on at least one occasion (the Harrow SIOE/EDL flop demo) on Mosque security.

*JDL and JTF support the EDL*
This might be why the unpopular Kahanist Division was/is run by a middle-aged Brazilian and a narcisstic Dutchman (both now rumoured to have entered Britain from USA). After many polite refusals from Anglo-Jewry, characteristic Kahanist taunts of 'Kapo' ensued, and the unpopular front took it upon themselves to decide who is and who isn't a Jew. According to this miniscule group of JTF-fanciers, none of the UJS are Jews, as they began a 'Not in Our Name - Jews against the EDL' campaign, last November. These Vancier-fans have also renamed the Board of Deputies to 'Board of Dhimmis' and called the Chief Rabbi, the Community Security Trust and journalist Marcus Dysch, or anyone else who opposes her, 'kapos'. The live broadcast of Tommy Robinson to a JDL chapter meeting in Canada earlier this year caused consternation from the mainstream Jewish community worldwide.

British Jews, in the main, remain unphased by their silly taunts and their occasional Kahanesque accusation of being a bit arab looking. The Robert/a double act is kinda like what life would be like if every day was Purim, but whilst we self-hating Jews can laugh at ourselves, the racist taunts and provocations dished out daily by EDL towards British Muslims are beyond a joke and we reject utterly the racism and Islamophobia emanating from the EDL and all it's divisions. British Jews will remain firm in rejecting EDL's vicious racist kultur war against Muslims.

Add to this arch-squabbler Bill 'Bunter' Baker's definition of a true Jew as being someone who votes Likud and any Jews who disagree with him as 'communists', this narrows down the actual number of True™ British Jews in Bill's eyes to somewhere in the region of 12.

The rival semi-fictitious JDiv is apparently being run by someone who used to be a member of the board for another of Gaffney's Propaganda Arms - 'International Free Press Society'. IFPS seems to have as much to do with press freedoms as yet another Gaffney front group -- 'International Civil LIberties' -- has to do with civil liberties (more like taking liberties). Gaffney and comedian antisemite Glenn Beck were last seen together at a CUFI rally, with notorious Pastor Hagee, who claimed that Hitler was doing G-d's work. Beck shed many tears for many dollars and proclaimed that he too was a Jew. He may have had some financial incentive to say this by one of his funders, a prominent Christian Identity speaker, David Barton, but don't quote us on that.

TBC/


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## treelover (Sep 7, 2011)

you are obsessed....


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 7, 2011)

Hahaha. Got a source for your 'SWP meeting with Hamas' photo of EDL co-founder Paul Ray and erstwhile ex-BNP member in the West Bank yet, treelover?


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## Fedayn (Sep 7, 2011)

treelover said:


> you are obsessed....



Irony alert.....


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## past caring (Sep 7, 2011)

"bypass" surely?


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## Fedayn (Sep 7, 2011)

past caring said:


> "bypass" surely?



Indeed or even both....


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## Jeff Robinson (Sep 7, 2011)




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## frogwoman (Sep 7, 2011)

iirc the dog born in a stable thing comes from goebbels originally (tho no idea if she knows that)

the fact that her mates are saying "wpww" etc suggests that she may do tho


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## Ranbay (Sep 7, 2011)

So proud they don't even call it England.....


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## Deareg (Sep 7, 2011)

She really is a horrible bastard.


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## Jeff Robinson (Sep 7, 2011)

"foreign"

tut, tut - remember "i before e except after c". Anyway, it's actually spelt "furrin". I'm just jealous of her 18 facebook likes.


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## frogwoman (Sep 7, 2011)

yep it's from nazi propaganda:



> Argument 6: “It is true that Mr. Moses Freundenstein is a Jew, but his parents and grandparents lived here. He is one of our old established citizens.” — Counterargument: Just as a goat does not become a horse, even if his father and grandfather were in the same stall, a Jew can never become a German, even if his ancestor came to Germany as a peddler in Varus’ army *[during the Roman era]*.


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## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2011)

Deareg said:


> It is her reasons for being on the bus that I take issue with.



exactly. if you go in to tower hamlets to cause trouble and then get it, dont fucking whine! she looks more scarey than robinson or kokaine kev carroll put together.


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## krink (Sep 7, 2011)

totally off topic but the facebook stuff above shows a good example of the facebook thing of people using photos of themselves for their avatar that look nothing like them!


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## john x (Sep 7, 2011)

Interesting how many women appear on these EDL facebook pages although not on their marches. Also does anyone know where the label "Angels" came from to describe female EDL supporters?

Is it being used ironically as the term is usually used to describe nurses and other caring females?

john x


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## Ranbay (Sep 7, 2011)

The Angels are with us to protect England from Islimisinsimsimsims, or something.


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## john x (Sep 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The Angels are with us to protect England from Islimisinsimsimsims, or something.



I get it now.

The 'guardian' angel use of the term?

Lord help us all! 

john x


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> iirc the dog born in a stable thing comes from goebbels originally (tho no idea if she knows that)
> 
> the fact that her mates are saying "wpww" etc suggests that she may do tho



I think the above  plus the white power symbol on her left breast are strongly indicative of such sympathies.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The Angels are with us to protect England from Islimisinsimsimsims, or something.


I'd always thought it was a simple misspelling of 'Angles', lol.
And then there Odin's cross (white power symbol on the left breast) and post-WWII anglosaxon blood & soil paganismismisms.


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## The39thStep (Sep 7, 2011)

krink said:


> totally off topic but the facebook stuff above shows a good example of the facebook thing of people using photos of themselves for their avatar that look nothing like them!



May even be poster using names which are nothing like their real name and writing messages that have bad spelling in them to give the impression that they are EDL?

The internet is full of people who make out that they are other people.


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## articul8 (Sep 7, 2011)




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## Corax (Sep 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> iirc the dog born in a stable thing comes from goebbels originally (tho no idea if she knows that)
> 
> the fact that her mates are saying "wpww" etc suggests that she may do tho


What is that?  I'm guessing 'white power' for the 1st two?


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## treelover (Sep 7, 2011)

Tatchell is now talking about organising a LGBT Pride march through Tower Hamlets. This must be prevented. It would confuse the issues and be a magnet for EDL types who we already know from the East.End Pride fiasco exist within the gay community.
Comment by Don — 6 September, 2011 @ 2:45 pm

A Socialist writes(from socialist unity)


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## butchersapron (Sep 7, 2011)

Would you ever stop your fucking gossiping?


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## frogwoman (Sep 7, 2011)

Corax said:


> What is that? I'm guessing 'white power' for the 1st two?



white pride worldwide


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## Corax (Sep 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> white pride worldwide


Gay white supremacists?  I assumed there were some, but I didn't know they had their own slogan acronyms.


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## frogwoman (Sep 7, 2011)

nah it's just a generic neo-nazi/white nationalist thing, nothing to do with being gay lol


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## Anudder Oik (Sep 7, 2011)

Some excerpts from Martin Smith in Socialist worker



> *We stopped racist EDL ...and we’ll do it again!*
> 
> There are days when our side wins an *outright victory*. Tower Hamlets on 3 September 2011 was one such day...
> 
> ...



I've been very selective of the content from the SW article for the sake of space.

What think all of the above claims?
It seemed that it was overall a good day for anti EDl (Loved the coach antics), but the EDL themselves, being thick cunts, didn't see it that way. They think that they marched for the simple fact that they were escorted by police to Tower Bridge. They did what they usually do, ie, drink, sing, wobble, abuse.

Have their soft support dropped away?

What would have happened if the police had escorted their march or allowed them to march unescorted thru Tower Hamlets?


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## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> iirc the dog born in a stable thing comes from goebbels originally (tho no idea if she knows that)
> 
> the fact that her mates are saying "wpww" etc suggests that she may do tho


the duke of wellington said being born in a stable did not make one a horse

so it somewhat precedes the good doctor


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## butchersapron (Sep 7, 2011)

What do the EDL see as a victory? They currently see turning up and being escorted to their designated pubs and places as victories. I see nothing to indicate this this cycle of uninterrupted victories is going to change. So, they can plod on, effort can be wasted on them....whose victory is that?


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## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What do the EDL see as a victory? They currently see turning up and being escorted to their designated pubs and places as victories. I see nothing to indicate this this cycle of uninterrupted victories is going to change. So, they can plod on, effort can be wasted on them....whose victory is that?


quite. until they get a bloody nose they'll keep doing this. and they won't get a hiding until people stop banning the marches. if they'd been able to (try to) take their route past the mosque on the weekend, there wouldn't be an edl (at least not in its current form) in six months.


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## Anudder Oik (Sep 7, 2011)

From what I have seen of footage from various sources the police operation was really really tight. The EDL just weren't going anywhere. The anti Edl didn't have to do anything.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> From what I have seen of footage from various sources the police operation was really really tight. The EDL just weren't going anywhere. The anti Edl didn't have to do anything.


or rather the anti-edl didn't have anything to do as so much was being done by the police.

as for their 'soft support' i think a lot of them didn't attend due to the pig's ear the edl made of changing things around at short notice due to an absence of a plan b (or even a)


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## john x (Sep 7, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> What think all of the above claims?



10 to 1? If they are just talking about placard-waving anti-fash then they are having a laugh. It was pretty much 1 to 1 probably with a few more antis than EDL. If they are counting the indigenous population of Tower Hamlets among the anti racists, it would be about 80,000 to 1. Either way their figures are way out. There was also a lot more than 600 EDL there, maybe even double that number. I doubt the opposition had split the hardcore from the soft hangers on. The recent poor turnouts and internal disputes within the EDL did more to decimate attendance figures than any organised opposition on the day.

And the police did everything they could to keep the EDL out of Tower Hamlets. With the shit the Met got after the recent riots there was no way they wanted a major ruck on their manor. If you listen carefully to some of the iPhone footage on the internet, you can hear riot cops talking about the EDL members they are trying to control. They regard them as scum every bit as much as the anti fash do!

So as a factual report of events, 4 out of 10. As propaganda I'd say about 7 out of 10

Who cares anyway. That paper is about as truthful as the Daily Mail. Sell the paper. Build the party! 



Anudder Oik said:


> What would have happened if the police had escorted their march or allowed them to march unescorted thru Tower Hamlets?



They would have been absolutely battered off the streets and the UAF wouldn't have got a look in. Again, looking at and listening to the iPhone footage, the local kids were well up for it and they outnumbered the EDL by a seriously large margin!

john x


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## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2011)

there were about 6-700 on the demo, there were about 300 split up in small groups.


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## Ranbay (Sep 7, 2011)

some ace footage here

http://jasonnparkinson.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/edl-tower-hamlets/


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## Fingers (Sep 7, 2011)

The plymouth twats have been in court today.

Ipad Wells and Watterson have been sent to Crown as their charges are that serious

Raferty and the non discript bloke are being dealth with by magistrates


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## john x (Sep 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> some ace footage here
> 
> http://jasonnparkinson.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/edl-tower-hamlets/



Just in case anyone was in any doubt that these people are anything more than a bunch of boozed up racist hooligans! 

john x


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## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 7, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> some ace footage here
> 
> http://jasonnparkinson.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/edl-tower-hamlets/


bunch of pussy hole, as i believe the yout call them these days


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## butchersapron (Sep 7, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> bunch of pussy hole, as i believe the yout call them these days



How many did we take to west ham?


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## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> How many did we take to west ham?


two and a half?


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## butchersapron (Sep 8, 2011)

Into the heart of the beast and the edl managed?


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## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 8, 2011)

bout a thousand strong max, and 40 of them poo'd themselves on that bus


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## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> bout a thousand strong max, and 40 of them poo'd themselves on that bus


it's surprising that there don't seem to have been hundreds on the bus given what happened last time there was an edl bus incident.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

> Video rush of the English Defence League (EDL) protest in Tower Hamlets, East London. The original march was banned after Home Secretary Theresa May ordered all protest marches be banned across five London boroughs for 30 days following the London riots. Sixty people in all were arrested, including EDL leader Stephen Yaxley Lennon (Tommy Robinson), who breached bail conditions to attend the prote


http://jasonnparkinson.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/edl-tower-hamlets/


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 8, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> quite. until they get a bloody nose they'll keep doing this. and they won't get a hiding until people stop banning the marches. if they'd been able to (try to) take their route past the mosque on the weekend, there wouldn't be an edl (at least not in its current form) in six months.



That's an understandable projection, but the other side of the coin is that if / when they get a hiding it could stoke up things more, including their narrative about "violent islam"

One separate but related observation: The endless wibble of some right-leaning dupes (and full on hard rightists) that "moderate muslims" don't speak out enough: Apart from the fact that speaking out isn't necessarily what "moderates" do (the clue is in the word), it has to be said that it is precisely because so many UK muslims seem to be moderately inclined that the EDL haven't been repeatedly pummelled.

Given the highly volatile public order risk that Saturday's projected march presented I am not over suprised or alarmed that it was banned. I was suprised and alarmed at the way it was used as an excuse to blag all marches for a while.

It is starting to look to me like there is no embarrassment or fuckup that will finish the EDL entirely. They have the strong denialism of the fanatic and / or the memory of goldfish.

The Blackburn debacle really should have been the end for them, or the links to Breveik, but no - the true faithful soldier on regardless.

You talk of changing from the "current form" form, I think that is in process. The days when they were new and exiting are behind them. The splits and ballsups have harmed them, as did the hacking of the FB group. There used to be a naive POV among some that they "had a point", or an ignorance about their true nature. But that was starting to go down the drain even before the Norway massacre.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 8, 2011)

And just in case anyone cares:

_We at ZHC are announcing our decision to step away from the UK anti-fascist movement on Facebook. We have accomplished what we hoped to achieve; taking down the EDL's main page, and we enjoy now seeing them in tatters._
_However, we will leave the EDL alone from now on, and allow the screencappers to do all the work._

_We have made this decision because of the constant misrepresentation of ourselves __and our friends and supporters by anti-fascists, such as Def Homosapien and his associates, who criticise us without ever offering proof, nor acknowledge the many achievements of our movement as a whole, and who dare not leave us with the right to reply for which we ask and are entitled._

_We understand and respect that many people do not agree with our methods, but we are very grateful to those who were able to see the bigger picture despite this._

_We would like to give love and heartfelt thanks to our many loyal members and supporters...._


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## john x (Sep 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> some ace footage here
> 
> http://jasonnparkinson.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/edl-tower-hamlets/



Interesting threat from 'Sir' Tommy here:

"....the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defence League if we see any of our citizens killed, maimed or hurt on British soil ever again."

Not sure how this would stand with the Race and Religious Hatred act 2006?

john x


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

The EDL in East London: bit.ly/nWhpqT

Excerpt: 


> *In Tower Hamlets*
> I wasn’t in Tower Hamlets on Saturday, when the English Defence League attempted at “static” demonstration there, but I’ve now managed to read through a fair amount of commentary and reportage. It seems it was a victory for everyone. For the EDL, they mobilised something from 600 to 1000 people, got a lot of media attention, drank a lot and had a generally fun day – although they failed to actually get to Tower Hamlets. For the “anti-fascists”, endlessly re-living the Battle of Cable Street, they considerably outnumbered the EDL and managed to keep the bigots out of the borough – except it was the police and not them who managed that. For the police, there was relatively little disorder and mayhem, and Theresa May’s ban on a march managed to get enforced – although it took 3000 pairs of boots on the ground and undoubtedly a huge bill to pay.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

john x said:


> Interesting threat from 'Sir' Tommy here:
> 
> "....the Islamic community will feel the full force of the English Defence League if we see any of our citizens killed, maimed or hurt on British soil ever again."



Already happened in the aftermath of 2005 bombings. Countless mosques attacked. Taxi drivers attacked, some murdered. People beaten up on street for being a bit Muslim looking. Abhorrent meting out of vigilante injustice against British Muslims who would have been against the bombers' acts as much as any other Brit of any creed or politik. Many of those vigilante acts of violence against those perceived to be Muslim and visible targets such as businesses and places of worship didn't make it into the msm or local press. Sikhs and Hindus also experienced increased racial aggravation towards individuals and communities afaiaa.

A similar violent vigilantism against anyone a bit arab looking occurred in the USA in the aftermath of 9/11, against Muslims, Jews , Christians, Sikhs, Hindus etc.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Many vigilante acts of violence against Muslims didn't make it into the msm or local press.


what proof do you have of this then?

and as for it being a general meting out, this suggests everyone was at it which is of course very far from the truth.

e2a: oh - for the record it's not polite to edit your post after it's been replied to.


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## john x (Sep 8, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Already happened in the aftermath of 2005 bombings.



The Race and Religious Hatred Act 2006 didn't exist in 2005!

john x


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## malatesta32 (Sep 8, 2011)

latest on EDL, Tommy in jail and the latest 'pedo' scandal! read all abaht it!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> latest on EDL, Tommy in jail and the latest 'pedo' scandal! read all abaht it!


 
LOL


> So he turned up dressed as a rabbit or something and after some grandstanding on his ever diminishing platform he was lifted and is now remanded at Her Maj’s Pleasure. His ‘martyrdom’ was a self-written prophecy and the choice was bleak: either not turn up and lose face or show up and get nicked.Rumour has it he’s on the nonce wing so he won’t be able to explain the finer points of the EDL’s ideology to any Muslim prisoners who happen to be inside with him. If he is on the nonce wing then we hope he will just sit there and think about what he has done! Tommy will not beacquainting himself with the EDL’s royal couple Stella and Charlie for a while so will have to make do with lousy food and the occasional bad tempered visit from his wife to whom he has just got hitched. In sickness and in health eh, Tommy? Tommy has said he is going on hunger strike and other incarcerated EDLers are going to join him. And there are plenty of those including the eejit who just got 5 months for smacking a plod.


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## Fozzie Bear (Sep 8, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> One separate but related observation: The endless wibble of some right-leaning dupes (and full on hard rightists) that "moderate muslims" don't speak out enough: Apart from the fact that speaking out isn't necessarily what "moderates" do (the clue is in the word), it has to be said that it is precisely because so many UK muslims seem to be moderately inclined that the EDL haven't been repeatedly pummelled.



I was thinking about moderates this morning because an old school mate of mine was on the radio talking about his Islamic Centre (in Luton, significantly) being firebombed in 2009. We used to walk to school together talking about politics, and when I moved to London he showed up at a few anti-racist things I was at, like defending the picket of the South African embassy from the NF.

When we were teenagers it seemed to me that his politics was on equal footing with his religion (albeit with an emphasis on anti-apartheid, palestine, anti-racist stuff). I guess he's become more religious as he got older, but a quick google seems to show that he is basically moderate and sensible. The firebombing aside, that doesn't make for good headlines or outraged facebook threads... he must be having to deal with a whole bunch of shit in Luton (from all sides) and I really feel for the bloke.


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## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2011)

Was he on Radio 4?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 8, 2011)

Indeed he was.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> Luther Blissett said:
> 
> 
> > _Many vigilante acts of violence against Muslims didn't make it into the msm or local press._
> ...


 Many of those vigilante acts of violence against those perceived to be Muslim and visible targets such as businesses and places of worship didn't make it into the msm or local press.


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## john x (Sep 8, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Many of those vigilante acts of violence against those perceived to be Muslim and visible targets such as businesses and places of worship didn't make it into the msm or local press.


 
How sure are you of that?

Mainstream media perhaps not, but someone going to court for an out of date tax disc usually makes it into the local press!

I was in america shortly after the attack on the twin towers and Pentagon and there was definitely coverage of a handful of stories of idiots driving their 4x4s into the front doors of mosques and convenience stores whose owners 'looked a bit muslim'.

john x


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## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Indeed he was.



I missed it, will grab it off iplayer later.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

john x said:


> How sure are you of that?
> 
> Mainstream media perhaps not, but someone going to court for an out of date tax disc usually makes it into the local press!
> 
> ...



I'm very sure that after 2005 bombings, many vigilante acts of violence against people who were a bit Muslim looking didn't make it into the msm or local press.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Many of those vigilante acts of violence against those perceived to be Muslim and visible targets such as businesses and places of worship didn't make it into the msm or local press.


no, what proof do you have of them then? not please post up a load of nonsense.


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## past caring (Sep 8, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Many of those vigilante acts of violence against those perceived to be Muslim and visible targets such as businesses and places of worship didn't make it into the msm or local press.



But nevertheless _you_ were aware of these incidents? How?


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

Despite the lack of reportage in the msm and local press regarding the massive increase immediately after 2005 bombings against people for being a bit muslim-looking, the only question to ask here is how did it happen that pastcaring and Pickman's model weren't aware of this, and why is it they respond to such news with 'nonsense' and 'how do you know''?


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## past caring (Sep 8, 2011)

So that's a "no" to having any evidence, then. Cheers.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

past caring said:


> So that's a "no" to having any evidence, then. Cheers.


No, it's not a 'no'. But don't take my word for it. Do some research yourself.


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## past caring (Sep 8, 2011)

You're the one making the claim - it's for you to substantiate it.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

*EDL Combined Ex Farces 'Meet and Beat' Plymouth update*
Michael Rafferty and Burly Ricky, two of four EDL men arrested for targetting a Kurdish restaurant after an EDL 'meet and greet  beat'  on Exeter St, turned violent, bailed until upcoming trial  http://bit.ly/nqUVx3


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## Pickman's model (Sep 8, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> No, it's not a 'no'. But don't take my word for it. Do some research yourself.


so if the evidence is out there you don't know how to find it and you hope people with some idea of how to research will succeed where you have so signally failed.


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## malatesta32 (Sep 8, 2011)

from stormfront:
'I was on the march in East London the other day. I went with a mate who had 88 tattooed on his neck and a swastika on his hand, and we got no trouble at all. Within an hour of joining the march we'd bumped into current or former activists from the NF, BNP, C18, B&H, and WNP. '
thank goodness the EDL are still managing to keep out the nazis! what do the jewish division think?


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## Deareg (Sep 8, 2011)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of the attacks on Asians did go unreported as in my experience many crimes of all description go unreported.


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## MellySingsDoom (Sep 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> from stormfront:
> 'I was on the march in East London the other day. I went with a mate who had 88 tattooed on his neck and a swastika on his hand, and we got no trouble at all. Within an hour of joining the march we'd bumped into current or former activists from the NF, BNP, C18, B&H, and WNP. '
> thank goodness the EDL are still managing to keep out the nazis! what do the jewish division think?



Didn't Roberta Moore once say of this one something like, "We don't mind fascists etc joining our cause, but we don't want to advertise it"?


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## past caring (Sep 8, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I wouldn't be at all surprised if many of the attacks on Asians did go unreported as in my experience many crimes of all description go unreported.



Indeed. But if there were a "massive" increase in the number of attacks on Asians following the 2005 bombings (as Luther claims) you'd have at least expected to hear some anecdotal evidence of this at the time. And I didn't. Don't recall anyone on these boards seriously suggesting that was happening, either.


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## malatesta32 (Sep 8, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Didn't Roberta Moore once say of this one something like, "We don't mind fascists etc joining our cause, but we don't want to advertise it"?


yes, she did. she also said that she was using the EDL. the EDL and others have been very careless about who they work with. the homophobic rabbi, pasta terry jones, the jewish terrorists etc, all who contradict what the EDL 'stand' for.


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## MellySingsDoom (Sep 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> yes, she did. she also said that she was using the EDL. the EDL and others have been very careless about who they work with. the homophobic rabbi, pasta terry jones, the jewish terrorists etc, all who contradict what the EDL 'stand' for.



Indeed, and let's not forget Anders Breivik, who the EDL "didn't know", until it turned out that actually, er, did.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 8, 2011)

past caring said:


> Indeed. But if there were a "massive" increase in the number of attacks on Asians following the 2005 bombings (as Luther claims) you'd have at least expected to hear some anecdotal evidence of this at the time. And I didn't. Don't recall anyone on these boards seriously suggesting that was happening, either.



Is your problem with the word 'massive'? there was certainly an increase, a quick google search comes back with these two articles for a start:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/14/july7.uksecurity15

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...all-for-calm-after-mosque-attacks-498508.html

Obviously these are _reported_ incidents, I can recall attacks on mosques in the North East being mentioned on footy forums, whether these were highlighted in the media I don't know.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 8, 2011)

yes, i can certainly remember some apocryphal stories at the time of people reporting increased harassment and aggression. there was also the guy who came up with the "don't freak, I'm a sikh" slogan on his t-shirt for similar reasons.


----------



## past caring (Sep 8, 2011)

It was both the word "massive" and this;



> Countless mosques attacked. Taxi drivers attacked, some murdered. People beaten up on street for being a bit Muslim looking. Abhorrent meting out of vigilante injustice against British Muslims who would have been against the bombers' acts as much as any other Brit of any creed or politik. Many of those vigilante acts of violence against those perceived to be Muslim and visible targets such as businesses and places of worship didn't make it into the msm or local press.



sunnysidedown's links are to attacks on mosques - not disputing that this happened or suggesting it was anything other than reprehensible. But Luther's post suggests a virtual pogrom - which certainly didn't happen.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 8, 2011)

Right-wing extremists have threatened to tear their opponents "limb from limb" during protests due to be held in the Capital on Saturday.

The online threat was made by a member of an English group called North West Infidels, whose members are expected to travel to the Capital on Saturday to take part in a rally organised by the Scottish Defence League.

The NWI's opponents say they are even more radical than the Scottish or English Defence Leagues. On a Facebook page set up by NWI members, a threat has been posted referring to a "coalition" of three groups – themselves, a similar group known as the North East Infidels, and the SDL.

It reads: "With only three days left we are issuing a challenge to any Red scum that are planning to oppose us. The NWI-NEW-Sdl coalition thrive on kicking the s*** out of c**** like you so the more of you that turn out in Edinburgh the better, that's more of your scruffy little bodies to go round for us to systematically tear limb from limb. See you Saturday."

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Fascist-group-vows-to-tear.6832713.jp


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/North-West-Infidels-Yorkshire/100533926701057?sk=info

the north west infidels are pretty open fash, look at this:

The North West Infidels are a group of right wing patriots, loyalists, and nationalists. We will stand with anyone willing to fight the enemies of Britain and for the right of its indigenous people. We are against Islamic jihad, the Islamic takeover of parts of the UK, militant Irish republicanism, Zionism, Immigration, EU membership, Multiculturalism, Communism and the militant left.
 We are not p...art of any other counter jihad group but we do have alliances with various other Infidel, Patriot, Loyalist, Nationalist and Right Wing groups. We are not connected to any political party nor do we discriminate against any member of a political party. All are welcome.
 We say it as we see it, if you don't like it, fuck off! The End.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 8, 2011)

The statements:



> We are against Islamic jihad, the Islamic takeover of parts of the UK, militant Irish republicanism, Zionism, Immigration, EU membership, Multiculturalism, Communism and the militant left.



and :



> All are welcome.



...are somewhat contradictory...


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

Erm no shit  I think they mean members of any fash/far right party are welcome though.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 8, 2011)

Ya I know Fridgey, but it is _still_ funny  insomuchas laughing at a non-funny group, with non-funny ideas can be.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 8, 2011)

That was froggy! I thought it was funny. I don't think I'll ever get tired of groups like that saying they're _standing up for England_.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

they're a human rights organisation dontcha know


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

We're


FridgeMagnet said:


> That was froggy! I thought it was funny. I don't think I'll ever get tired of groups like that saying they're _standing up for England_.



"We will (sometimes) peacefully protest against Militant muzrats. But any nonsense from them, or their UAF brothers, then we will peacefully KICK THEIR FUCKING HEADS IN. THE END. FULL STOP. "

there's a number of different ways "militant" could be interpreted here, none of them particularly edifying


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 8, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> they're a human rights organisation dontcha know



"Bacon Burgers on our streets!"


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That was froggy!



Oh yeah.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

I love how they go on about Islam being "violent" and then go on about kicking the shit out of people at the same time ffs.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 8, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> The North West Infidels are ... against... Zionism



I thought the EDL was "pro-zionist"? (For PR purposes at least, Israeli flags on the early demos etc) I know consistency isn't a strong point for the EDL but how does that even work? Or the scottish lot different?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

nooo, i think these guys are a split who think that the edl aren't fash enough ...


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 8, 2011)

Ok but they're still going to the SDL event? Perhaps at this point I should feign outrage that the SDL/EDL are doing nothing to distance themselves from them. 

Mind you, the more splits the better, I guess.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

like ive said quite a few times on here, anyone who thinks trot groups are constantly splitting should look at the fash. next to them the entire left looks like a paragon of unity. It's entertaining though


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 8, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I love how they go on about Islam being "violent" and then go on about kicking the shit out of people at the same time ffs.



All acts of violence are equal, only some are more equal than others.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 8, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> like ive said quite a few times on here, anyone who thinks trot groups are constantly splitting should look at the fash. next to them the entire left looks like a paragon of unity. It's entertaining though



Well quite, which is why the BNP's success under Grifin has been so remarkable.

Can you actually call it a split, though, if they still go to the rallies? (i.e. the only actual EDL activity?)


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

the edl are always up for kicking the shit out of red scum, unlike those violent islamist pussies


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well quite, which is why the BNP's success under Grifin has been so remarkable.
> 
> Can you actually call it a split, though, if they still go to the rallies? (i.e. the only actual EDL activity?)



yeah it can still be called a split i guess. maybe they're trying to "intervene" and patiently explain to the edl why "the jew is our enemy" lol


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 8, 2011)

"internal fraction of the EDL" lol.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> like ive said quite a few times on here, anyone who thinks trot groups are constantly splitting should look at the fash. next to them the entire left looks like a paragon of unity. It's entertaining though


Do you know there's now two semi-fictitious JDivs, both insisting they're official! I wrote a little about it a few pages ago...


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

External tendency lol


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Do you know there's now two JDivs, both insisting they're official! I wrote a little about it a few pages ago...


Nah, I didn't. Didn't one of them get expelled though?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Nah, I didn't. Didn't one of them get expelled though?


It's complicated


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> "internal fraction of the EDL" lol.


Internal discussion documents lol.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 8, 2011)

Re. the Jewish "Divisions" - Roberta Moore walked from the "official one", after various fall-outs, handbags and so on, leaving Robert Bartholomeus in charge.  The fragrant Roberta had claimed she was leaving the EDL full-stop, but almost immediately after she tried to "mentor" the EDL LGBT "Division".  She then managed to get booted off Alan Lake's own forum/site for infractions. Meanwhile, as Luther Blissett says, another "official" Jewish "Division" popped up.  Roberta still seems to be hanging around Yaxley-Lennon (well, not right now, obviously - unless she's visiting him in prison), and Alan Lake, despite him being given the cold-shoulder by some of the EDL "top team" following his post-Utoya massacre comments, is still being his usual shadowy self too.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 8, 2011)

Picking up where Melly left off ...

Roberta 'Bat Kahane' Moore left the Vancier-fancier Robert Bartholomeus in charge, rather than hand-over control of the facebook group back to EDL leadership. Attempts to wrest control the facebook group page from Robert/a's ultra-wingnut clutches proved futile, so a new facebook page was created.

This new semi-fictitious English Defence League JDiv is apparently headed up by James Cohen who used to be board member of the International Free Press Society, of which Gaffney and other notable Islamophobes (Bat Ye'Or, Brigitte Gabriel, Mark Steyn) share co-Directorship.

When Roberta learned of the relaunched semi-fictitious JDiv (EDL), there followed a customary troll of the new group with her remaining loyal trollcore (Gary, Fern, Robert et al), who spent their time denying it's existence, claiming there was no such entity as the new JDiv, and that there was no such person as James Cohen.

Since her resignation as EDL semi-fictitious JDiv (officious) leader, Roberta clung precariously to her position as wardrobe mistress to Sir Tommy by a only a tzitzit, then after the East End demo in Aldgate, she did an a U-turn and took back control of the 'official' JDiv. She appears to believe that the relaunch was a conspiratorial mission to sow confusion and disinformation and suggests that antifascists, Team Poison and 'Expose' are behind it.

But there is such a person as James Cohen, and if I don't have my James' Cohen's working for IFPS mixed up, here he is, interviewing Hurt Wilderbeast in Canada, promoted throughout the global CounterJihad blogosophere: http://vimeoDOTcom/23619949 (remove DOT, replace with .) AFAIK he's been running the Canadian version of IFPS. http://www.ifpscanadaDOTcom/.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2011)

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/videos/video_edl_members_hold_prison_protest_1_3034025

some video from the prison protest.


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 8, 2011)

youtube links


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## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2011)

*Tommy Robinson Legal Fund*

Dig deep people

http://       yeah englishdefenceleague.org/(WOOT)campaigns/tommy-robinson-legal-fund/

remove the (WOOT)


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## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

I'd break that link if I were you


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 8, 2011)

It confirms what I suspected though


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2011)

broke it, don't think it needs breaking mind.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

it's not broken - it's still linked to the page.


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *Tommy Robinson Legal Fund*
> 
> Dig deep people
> 
> http://twitpic.com/6hytyy



Link replaced with Screenshot


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 9, 2011)

You might find this link interesting:

http://wwwDOTenglishdefenceleague.o...mentary-a-third-party-view-of-the-EDL-amp-UAF

the link is to a favourable review of a positive "documentary" appearing on a conspiracy theory website (a website which is "reinvestigating" the 7/7 bombings) about the EDL.


----------



## john x (Sep 9, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> You might find this link interesting:
> 
> http://wwwDOTenglishdefenceleague.org/forum/showthread.php?9016-positive-EDL-documentary-a-third-party-view-of-the-EDL-amp-UAF
> 
> the link is to a favourable review of a positive "documentary" appearing on a conspiracy theory website (a website which is "reinvestigating" the 7/7 bombings) about the EDL.



I thought it was going to be a link to a 'proper' documentary!

It is a very confused amateur video that claims that the British government is supporting militant Islam. No wonder the EDL are plugging it! 

john x


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 9, 2011)

Really, I didn't watch it  probably a good thing then


----------



## Red Faction (Sep 9, 2011)

Recently moved to Blackpool.

One of the first things that struck me is the level of deprivation, and one of the second was the level of depravation.

Stumbled upon the case of Charlene Downes.

Can't believe I hadn't heard of her before- 
Especially when so many young girls have become household names:
Sarah Payne, Madeleine McCann, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman and many more.

The only sources online that try to publicise her disappearance seem to be BNP/EDL.

Her mum has now become an EDL supporter and they staged a protest up here 4 months ago about her disappearance.

Has anyone else heard of her?
Was her disappearance national news?

If so- how have I missed it?!


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 9, 2011)

afaik her mum disassoicated herself from the edl iirc.


----------



## Red Faction (Sep 9, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> afaik her mum disassoicated herself from the edl iirc.


was her disappearance national news though?


----------



## Fingers (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't think it was in the nationals.  At the time is was just another run away teenager. There was no conclusive proof that she was put in a kebab or who did the deed.  the first I heard about it was from the EDL when they had a poorly attended demo when they turned up in green mankinis and pig masks to honor her.  Around that time some Sky News anchor woman stated that she would avoid eating kebabs if she went to Blackpool which did not go down too well with grief tourists within the EDL.

They also sold Cherlene Downes fridge magnets as well. If you go round someone's house and there is a fridge magnet with a picture if a dead/missing schoolgirl on the fridge door, the chances are they are EDL.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 9, 2011)

The whole case was based on a joke, they where recording the two guys and i think one said they stuck her in the Kebabs more than likely joking, they found no DNA nothing. They where both on remand for some time and both got a £250k payout recently.

The police fucked up really bad in the case, there was 1000's of hours of audio that was very poor and people couldn't agree on what was said.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 9, 2011)

Can anyone direct me to some info/articles on the EDL's LGBT division?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 9, 2011)

Fozzie Bear - I may be able to help out w/that  - can't do it right now, as I'm at work.  I'll set myself a reminder to have a look over the weekend for you - hope that's all good.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 9, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Can anyone direct me to some info/articles on the EDL's LGBT division?


 
google Liam Wood i think he's the guy that runs it, and possibly the only member.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 9, 2011)

No rush - are you going to be at Cafe OTO on Sunday?

(@ Melly)


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 9, 2011)

Fozzie Bear said:


> No rush - are you going to be at Cafe OTO on Sunday?
> 
> (@ Melly)



Indeed I shall be!  (got my ticket this week)


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The whole case was based on a joke, they where recording the two guys and i think one said they stuck her in the Kebabs more than likely joking, they found no DNA nothing. They where both on remand for some time and both got a £250k payout recently.
> 
> The police fucked up really bad in the case, there was 1000's of hours of audio that was very poor and people couldn't agree on what was said.



It made it to the nationals eventually when the case against two men came to trial in 2007, but the main focus seems to have been the suppression of an internal police report on child sex abuse in Blackpool, which apparently is the favourite spot for sex offenders to move to  Blackpool was always a hotspot (since the 80s to my knowledge) for sex abuse because it's a favourite destination for runaways.

Both the BNP and the EDL have been agitating in Blackpool - BNP handing out leaflets, and trying to garner votes on the day of the last EDL demo in South Shore. There's a BNPtv video of the BNP leaflet men and women being moved on.

One of the original suspects (34 yr old) has now been jailed for 20 weeks after headbutting 18 yr old girlfriend in the street: http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/news/9094908.Blackburn_man_jailed_for_attack_on_girl/


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> google Liam Wood i think he's the guy that runs it, and possibly the only member.



There are others - one of them, Raymond Berry - was involved in the East End Pride committee and directly responsible for that falling flat this year after Imaan, Rainbow Hamlets and Tatchell withdrew support.
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/the-plot-thickens-east-end-gay-pride-edl-links-confirmed/

It was originally set up by 'Joe Bloggs' who also set up the original JDiv around the same time. Joe Bloggs also used the name 'Homo Sapiens' on the old EDL forum. He has a penchant for Evola:
http://twitpic.com/2d2sqt


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> you are obsessed....



As the pot said to the kettle. "The left... *foam*... Muslims... *rant*"


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 9, 2011)

dunno if this is up already but its glasgow abdul asking wanye baldwin - he of massive swastika chest tattoo - if he is racist. then wayne going no, then err yeah. then abdul has to be escorted away looking somewhat confused. the poor dear! 2 minutes in!
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/abdul-dalaams-pr-disaster


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 9, 2011)

love this thread about notts coach.
http://twitpic.com/6i6lml
they go from being attacked by 50 to 100 to 300 'muslims' in the space of a few seconds. what actually happened was that joanne dickens was having another wee - this time in the proper place - then she stuck her head out of the door, so frightened the counterdemo that they all ran forward and tried to shove her back in the bus. and no jokes about back ends of busses either please.


----------



## john x (Sep 9, 2011)

Red Faction said:


> Stumbled upon the case of Charlene Downes.
> 
> Can't believe I hadn't heard of her before-
> Especially when so many young girls have become household names:
> ...



I suspect that was because the suspects in her disappearance were not white. If they were white or not known, she would have remained a non-household name missing kid.

john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> love this thread about notts coach.
> http://twitpic.com/6i6lml
> they go from being attacked by 50 to 100 to 300 'muslims' in the space of a few seconds. what actually happened was that joanne dickens was having another wee - this time in the proper place - then she stuck her head out of the door, so frightened the counterdemo that they all ran forward and tried to shove her back in the bus. and no jokes about back ends of busses either please.


 http://twitpic.com/6ia2qx - Joanne Dickens posts info about two blokes who laughed at her misfortune, which she got from Redwatch, (who describe her as 'comrade')
See *V*ery*N*asty*N*azi*Forum* for proof.


----------



## treelover (Sep 9, 2011)

'“There was also hostility from a minority of Muslims who were part of the anti-EDL demonstration, including attempts to snatch and rip my placard. These fanatics mostly objected to the slogan: “Gays & Muslims UNITE! Stop the EDL”. I was surrounded several times throughout the day by angry Muslim youths who ordered me: “You must remove this placard…You can’t walk here with these words…We don’t allow gays in this area…Gays are not permitted here…We don’t have gays in Tower Hamlets.”

http://www.petertatchell.net/politics/tatchell-gets-muslim-hostility-&-support-at-anti-edl-demo.htm

Did anyone see any of these encounters?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> '“There was also hostility from a minority of Muslims who were part of the anti-EDL demonstration, including attempts to snatch and rip my placard. These fanatics mostly objected to the slogan: “Gays & Muslims UNITE! Stop the EDL”. I was surrounded several times throughout the day by angry Muslim youths who ordered me: “You must remove this placard…You can’t walk here with these words…We don’t allow gays in this area…Gays are not permitted here…We don’t have gays in Tower Hamlets.”
> 
> http://www.petertatchell.net/politics/tatchell-gets-muslim-hostility-&-support-at-anti-edl-demo.htm
> 
> Did anyone see any of these encounters?





treelover said:


> you are obsessed....


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> '“There was also hostility from a minority of Muslims who were part of the anti-EDL demonstration, including attempts to snatch and rip my placard. These fanatics mostly objected to the slogan: “Gays & Muslims UNITE! Stop the EDL”. I was surrounded several times throughout the day by angry Muslim youths who ordered me: “You must remove this placard…You can’t walk here with these words…We don’t allow gays in this area…Gays are not permitted here…We don’t have gays in Tower Hamlets.”
> 
> http://www.petertatchell.net/politics/tatchell-gets-muslim-hostility-&-support-at-anti-edl-demo.htm
> 
> Did anyone see any of these encounters?


Have you got the url for the fake SWP/Hamas foto yet?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

*Chris Knowles, come on down! *

We (the vast left wing conspiracy) were humming and haah-ing about our lack of concrete proof that Aeneas Lavinium, of Center for Vigilant(e) Freedom (now International Civil Liberties Alliance) was Chris Knowles - a CVF director, but lol of all lols, he tripped himself up with a bad link to his C:/ drive from one of his 'Sir Tommy's European Tour' articles over on ICLA:


----------



## treelover (Sep 9, 2011)

if I'm obsessed then wtf is this thread?

You are acting like useful idiots if you ignore the significant problems that will grow with militant islam, then again whats new?

why not engage with the substantive issues?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> if I'm obsessed then wtf is this thread?
> 
> You are acting like useful idiots if you ignore the significant problems that will grow with militant islam, then again whats new?
> 
> why not engage with the substantive issues?



These "problems" strike me as exagerated and it is doubtful if militiant islam is any more a threat to our way of life than quite a few other forms of militancy, especially militant neoliberalism and imperialist militarism.

Sharia Law: Not imposed. Christmas: not banned. Lots of buildings: Not turned into mosques. Non muslims: Not killed en masse.

Much islamaphobia is paranoid garbage with not a small amount of racism thrown in (the religious hate being the mask for the race hate)

As someone of unorthodox and non aligned faith I have many issues with Islam and it's propagation (as I do with Christianity). What do I do about it? Guess what? I discuss my issues with muslims. What a novel idea when so many people just go on Facebook to spout ignorant bollocks and cast around generalistic assumptions which are very often flat-out wrong.

And how do Muslims react? Do they kill me? I don't think I have been killed even once by a muslim. No they are, without fail, polite and patient regardless of disagreements. Their views are no more whack, superstitious or conservative than many Christians in this country a generation ago or even now.

People do discuss and address the issues. Endlessly. Often not very constructively. Little is swept under the carpet, the airwaves and internet are rammed with people whinging that they are not allowed to say what they think either just before or after having said it. Paranoid, deluded, myth making, martyr complexes - by coincidence or not these are common traits in fascist psychology


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> if I'm obsessed then wtf is this thread?
> 
> You are acting like useful idiots if you ignore the significant problems that will grow with militant islam, then again whats new?
> 
> why not engage with the substantive issues?


Where's the url that showed SWP and Hamas together, again? You know, the one you linked to with EDL founder Paul Ray posing with Guns in 2006 in the West Bank.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> why not engage with the substantive issues?



I think we have been engaging with the substantive issues. It's looking highly likely that EDL was astroturfed by the Center for Vigilant Freedom.

So do something useful and provide the url where you got the fake SWP meets Hamas photograph from.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 9, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't think I have been killed even once by a muslim. No they are, without fail, polite and patient regardless of disagreements.



lovely line! 'i don't think'! totally agree with this taffy! islam is not the point it is EDL using it as a reason to attack asian folk and coming from outside and trying to march thru areas where they are neither from nor welcome. where was the tower hamlets EDL division? answer: there isnt one! so whats theire fecken beef if they dont live there? they still think cos we oppose EDL we support islam. they havent a fecken clue!


----------



## josef1878 (Sep 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> _*The whole case was based on a joke, they where recording the two guys and i think one said they stuck her in the Kebabs more than likely joking, they found no DNA nothing.*_ They where both on remand for some time and both got a £250k payout recently.
> 
> The police fucked up really bad in the case, there was 1000's of hours of audio that was very poor and people couldn't agree on what was said.



Bad bad fuckin joke then.


----------



## treelover (Sep 9, 2011)

listen, taffboy,. i have a friend from my STW days, Muslim, etc he tried to set up a liberal Muslim network and in his own words 'got a lot of grief' and in his own words he said ''he rejected the Saudi Wahibi version which has been imported here and which belongs in the 16th C''.


----------



## treelover (Sep 9, 2011)

Maletesa you just used the dreaded non- u 'folk' word, volkisch....


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> listen, taffboy,. i have a friend from my STW days, Muslim, etc he tried to set up a liberal Muslim network and in his own words 'got a lot of grief' and in his own words he said ''he rejected the Saudi Wahibi version which has been imported here and which belongs in the 16th C''.



Stop press - this just in - ultra-conservative Muslims have ultra-conservative views and aren't shy about letting everyone know.

In other news, the BNP are racist and treelover is a boring cunt who parrots EDL lies about the left without even checking the facts.

You daft twat.


----------



## treelover (Sep 10, 2011)

Eh, I posted Peter Tatchells article about the demo and his experiences, is he a EDL shrill?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> Eh, I posted Peter Tatchells article about the demo and his experiences, is he a EDL shrill?



The word you are reaching for is "shill" comrade. Tatchell said he got hassled by a small number of muslims and supported by many more. As for your mate, I'm sure he did get some hassle from reactionaries. Reactionaries existing in any faith group is no great shocker. But I honestly don't think Wahibi-ism has made great inroads into our culture. Happy to be contradicted by evidence and such.

What did you make of the recent survey showing that UK muslims are happier with the generally tolerant attitudes on LGBT issues than the average Brit?

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/06/27/uk-muslims-prouder-of-gay-rights-than-christians/


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 10, 2011)

Interesting link, if we aint already had it, about EDL/Redwatch connection.

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/the-edl-and-redwatch

Appears substantial enough to be another solid nail in the coffin of the apologist/denialist line that the EDL is not part of the general mix of very nasty far right groups.


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 10, 2011)

I thought it was common knowledge that EDL types were the ones that regenerated Redwatch. It was the UAF Hunting Club, who now have a banner along with Blood and Honour on the main page, that started it back up. Them along with Salford BNP organiser Gary Tumulty, who is responsible for the North West, Salford and Mancheter Reds sections, along with a few other posts. 

Redwatch is a little scary but in reality it's nothing more than an anoyance. There has been a few things come from it which aren't nice however.

I've spoken to Anonymous and they've said it's "in their sights" but they've had trouble with the number of servers it uses. I think they could bring it down if they put their full resources into it, I doubt that would happen however


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> Eh, I posted Peter Tatchells article about the demo and his experiences, is he a EDL shrill?



I'm not talking about Tatchell, I'm talking about the EDL propaganda about the SWP and Hamas. Have you remembered where you got it from yet?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 10, 2011)




----------



## Red Storm (Sep 10, 2011)

Interesting.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2011)

Sheer opportunism


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2011)

it's interesting AND sheer opportunism


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 10, 2011)

hes desperate isnt he?


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 10, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> hes desperate isnt he?



Yep, Billy-no-mates trying to get some.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 10, 2011)

Maybe he's hoping the EDL will club together and buy him a new car?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 10, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



Response:


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 10, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Maybe he's hoping the EDL will club together and buy him a new car?


On an MEP salary and can't afford a car?

HnH say the party is about to go into administration.

But what HnH hasn't been talking about, whilst focusing solely on BNP and EDL as is, is that waiting in the wings is BNP split called 'BNP reform', which has been attempting to transform BNP in similar style as the Vlaams Bloc underwent to become Vlaams Belang, attempting to rid itself of BNP/Griffin's antisemitism and conspiracy theories. This BNPReform feeds into an actual political party called British Freedom, which I presume is waiting to catch BNP members after the party folds, which will be very soon. And then of course, on the balkanised Britain front, there's the English Democrats, which booted Billy Bunter Baker out for being against black people.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 10, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> On an MEP salary and can't afford a car?



It was a joke re-the Bailiffs 1 Nick Griffin 0 thread.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 10, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> HnH say the party is about to go into administration.



As you were adding that bit to your post, I just started a new thread - BNP Threatened with Winding-Up Order.


----------



## belboid (Sep 10, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Stop press - this just in - .


Stop news- this just in - he made it up anyway


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> Eh, I posted Peter Tatchells article about the demo and his experiences, is he a EDL shrill?


i think the word you're looking for is 'shill'. shrill is what you are.


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 10, 2011)

Where is that pic taken?


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> listen, taffboy,. i have a friend from my STW days, Muslim, etc he tried to set up a liberal Muslim network and in his own words 'got a lot of grief' and in his own words he said ''he rejected the Saudi Wahibi version which has been imported here and which belongs in the 16th C''.



I smell a universalism here. But this anecdote is interesting... but not in the way you think.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> i have a friend from my STW days,


i don't believe you


----------



## skitr (Sep 10, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Where is that pic taken?



I was wondering that too, I've seen it touted about as Belfast. It looks very similar to somewhere I know there, so wanted to find out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2011)

skitr said:


> I was wondering that too, I've seen it touted about as Belfast. It looks very similar to somewhere I know there, so wanted to find out.


surely people in belfast don't do graffiti about what nick griffin has called significant minor figures in english politics?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 10, 2011)

skitr said:


> I was wondering that too, I've seen it touted about as Belfast. It looks very similar to somewhere I know there, so wanted to find out.


I was told Belfast too, but haven't been able to confirm that yet, so remain doubtful until I know for sure.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 10, 2011)

anyone got any links or info on Edinboro today? not much on indymedia and Scottish afa are out i presume!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 10, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/pages/HOPE-not-hate-Scotland/319342414665

some pics on there, but looks like poor turnout for them.


----------



## skitr (Sep 10, 2011)

on facebook, it was being said 40 sdl turned up eventually.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 10, 2011)




----------



## claphamboy (Sep 10, 2011)

30-40 SDL/EDL - lol, fucking, lol.


----------



## where to (Sep 10, 2011)

I wasn't there but from what i've gathered of SDL/EDL in Edinburgh:

Police said 200 of them, going by photos looks def over 100.  Figure of 40 was banded about on twitter before the bulk of them (who were bussed in together) arrived.  I reckon maybe around 160-200.

Antis gathered from 11am at bottom of Mound on Princess St and sounds like they were kept kettled by old Burger King outside Balmoral Hotel/ East End of Princess St.

Bulk of EDL arrived maybe half twelvish and were bussed out around an hour later.

Way more antis than SDL.

Going by pics/ flags it looks like the usual 50odd SDL who've previously gathered have been boosted by another 100 or so from England.  More England flags motifs etc than Scottish.

BTW - that Tommy Robinson grafiti looks photoshopped.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> listen, taffboy,. *i have a friend from my STW days, Muslim, etc he tried to set up a liberal Muslim network and in his own words 'got a lot of grief' and in his own words he said ''he rejected the Saudi Wahibi version which has been imported here and which belongs in the 16th C'*'.



Now where I have read this before? 

This reads like you are quoting your own friend...its that a mistake on your part?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 10, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> anyone got any links or info on Edinboro today? not much on indymedia and Scottish afa are out i presume!


Photos here from Brian Jaffa, whose been covering the spectacle: http://yfrog.com/kjrrprsj?&_suid=545

Police estimated around 200, most were bussed in from elsewhere.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 10, 2011)

Interesting indeed seeing as he twittered that they were the "English Dickhead League" only hours before Saint Tommy was arrested.

They really are seeing him as a political prisoner on the loon right. Funny that all that law and order stuff goes quickly down the pan when it's one of their own breaking bail. Imagine if the fuss if it was one of them muslamics.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 10, 2011)

Oh, BNP are now facing a winding up order as part of their travails. Could it be that Nazi Nick is desparately scrambling around for potential donors?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 10, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I thought it was common knowledge that EDL types were the ones that regenerated Redwatch. It was the UAF Hunting Club, who now have a banner along with Blood and Honour on the main page, that started it back up.



Ah yes, the pieces fit together now. Thanks. Might I suggest your estimation of "common knowledge" seems pretty relative. Knowing the ins and outs of all this stuff is actually quite niche.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 10, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Interesting indeed seeing as he twittered that they were the "English Dickhead League" only hours before Saint Tommy was arrested.
> 
> They really are seeing him as a political prisoner on the loon right. Funny that all that law and order stuff goes quickly down the pan when it's one of their own breaking bail. Imagine if the fuss if it was one of them muslamics.


Sir Tommy is beyond any law - he's a law unto himself.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 10, 2011)

Red Storm/taffyboy gwyrdd - I found out very recently that person in whose name the Redwatch site is registered in (Simon Sheppard) has not long been released from prison following his conviction (alongside the Whittle fellow) for publishing racist and anti-Semitic material.  Could it be too that Redwatch has been re-started now he's back out as well?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 10, 2011)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/the-edl-and-redwatch


----------



## treelover (Sep 10, 2011)

I've just seen a group of men out on the town with blacked up faces and white pointed hats on, thinking about it now i'm home i think they were meant to be smurfs but it was dark, but black people watching weren't happy at all of course...


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 10, 2011)

probably lazy lefites...


----------



## skitr (Sep 10, 2011)

nah, lefties don't go out.


----------



## treelover (Sep 10, 2011)

i sense some herd mentality here, going to take a break....


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 10, 2011)




----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 10, 2011)

bah!


----------



## treelover (Sep 10, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> On an MEP salary and can't afford a car?
> 
> HnH say the party is about to go into administration.
> 
> But what HnH hasn't been talking about, whilst focusing solely on BNP and EDL as is, is that waiting in the wings is BNP split called 'BNP reform', which has been attempting to transform BNP in similar style as the Vlaams Bloc underwent to become Vlaams Belang, attempting to rid itself of BNP/Griffin's antisemitism and conspiracy theories. This BNPReform feeds into an actual political party called British Freedom, which I presume is waiting to catch BNP members after the party folds, which will be very soon. And then of course, on the balkanised Britain front, there's the English Democrats, which booted Billy Bunter Baker out for being against black people.



Ah well have to reply to this , lots of people reading, I've just been to a major meeting on inequality with Danny Dorling, Richard Wilson(not that one) academics who really know their stuff and statistics, and a senior PCS official(SP i think.) The discussion certainly focussed at the end on a new type of mainly right wing populism which may emerge in the Uk and which many of us on here have predicted for years, Wilson and especially Dorling were basically saying a fair bit of the country is going to be papuperised while much of the middle class will see many of its priveledges, wealth and opportunity disappear and that there are real dangers ahead. It won't be the EDL that are the benificaries of this chaos but more subtle and sophicated players...


----------



## The Black Hand (Sep 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Some excerpts from Martin Smith in Socialist worker
> 
> *We stopped racist EDL ...and we’ll do it again!*
> A)There are days when our side wins an *outright victory*. Tower Hamlets on 3 September 2011 was one such day...
> ...



A) The SWP were completely irrelevant on Sept 3rd. They agreed to meet so far away from where the EDL would be its embarrassing. If they wanted to be relevant they would have met not far from Liverpool strather than completely out of the way beyond the mosque.
B)I am not sure how many were in the UAF pen at its peak so its hard for me to comment, but from what I saw there were certainly far larger numbers of protesters than EDL - 2 or 3 times more. EDL numbers? I'll take estimates from usual reliable anarchist guesstimates. There was a blurring of protesters and local youth, certainly there were enough independents out there for it to be  a useful exercise. In terms of numbers, it is not a problem, there will be fiercer resistance next time and that is what matters. We tried to mix with local youth too, at one point later in the day we had a mixed mob of approx 50 which was a highlight - clearly chanting 'Fuk the Edl' and 'Fuk the police'. Certainly another attempt to come into Tower Hamlets would be a major mistake by the EDL.
C) That question for me was not important this time, the police control, & the Islamic stewarding (who had instructions to do what the police wanted and control the youth, & who thought my grouplet were EDL at one stage)  were the real story of that day. Apart from the coach incident of course.
There is another report on the web by a Northerner that is worth reading.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 11, 2011)

The Black Hand said:


> A) The SWP were completely irrelevant on Sept 3rd. They agreed to meet so far away from where the EDL would be its embarrassing. If they wanted to be relevant* they would have met not far from Liverpool* strather than completely out of the way beyond the mosque.
> B)I am not sure how many were in the UAF pen at its peak so its hard for me to comment, but from what I saw there were certainly far larger numbers of protesters than EDL - 2 or 3 times more. EDL numbers? I'll take estimates from usual reliable anarchist guesstimates. There was a blurring of protesters and local youth, certainly there were enough independents out there for it to be a useful exercise. In terms of numbers, it is not a problem, there will be fiercer resistance next time and that is what matters. We tried to mix with local youth too, at one point later in the day we had a mixed mob of approx 50 which was a highlight - clearly chanting 'Fuk the Edl' and 'Fuk the police'. Certainly another attempt to come into Tower Hamlets would be a major mistake by the EDL.
> C) That question for me was not important this time, the police control, & the Islamic stewarding (who had instructions to do what the police wanted and control the youth, & who thought my grouplet were EDL at one stage) were the real story of that day. Apart from the coach incident of course.
> There is another report on the web by a Northerner that is worth reading.



Still quite a bit away from where the EDL were being escorted in London, unless it was internet anti fascsim in which case they could have googled a load of Rock Against Racism  You Tubes videos from Auditech to play next to Bob's EDL clips.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Bigotry, class prejudice, misogyny and violence: two young "anti-fascists" crow over assault of female member of EDL ind.pn/qfRpTr


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2011)

Are they Anti Fascists becuase the youtube video title tells us they are, or are they just two dicks from London?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2011)

where to said:


> I wasn't there but from what i've gathered of SDL/EDL in Edinburgh:
> 
> Police said 200 of them, going by photos looks def over 100. Figure of 40 was banded about on twitter before the bulk of them (who were bussed in together) arrived. I reckon maybe around 160-200.
> 
> ...



brilliant, thanks for the heads up! bbc says 200 and it seems they were outnumbered from pix. also after last weeks expense and fanny aboot in london few of them would have had the cash (or will) to get up there. the infidel splinter is more openly fascist which is a move away from EDL policies. cos theyre NWI, NWE, SDL and other grupuscules, the wannabe leaders will squabble and the inevitable fash fall oots will follow. more leaders than soldiers has always knacked them. look at the violent fallouts over the last year in the EDL. here's hoping!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2011)

jeffrey 'stabber' marsh bigging up SDL thing on his wee blog. so the casuals and what was WDL, NWI NEI SDL (who someone said are basically Scots BNP) moving away from tommy's lot. the fall outs over leadership status, football and CASH are on the cards.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2011)

Then comes the book


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 11, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Bigotry, class prejudice, misogyny and violence: two young "anti-fascists" crow over assault of female member of EDL ind.pn/qfRpTr


The spiked bloke commented her running around like edith sitwell. Pretty much spot on. She displays all the class prejudice she's supposed to be attacking.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 11, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Still quite a bit away from where the EDL were being escorted in London, unless it was internet anti fascsim in which case they could have googled a load of Rock Against Racism You Tubes videos from Auditech to play next to Bob's EDL clips.



You're In a sarky mood this morning steps.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Red Storm/taffyboy gwyrdd - I found out very recently that person in whose name the Redwatch site is registered in (Simon Sheppard) has not long been released from prison following his conviction (alongside the Whittle fellow) for publishing racist and anti-Semitic material. Could it be too that Redwatch has been re-started now he's back out as well?



mel! stuff on shepherd here:
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/nazis-jailed/
hes just got out i think.


----------



## treelover (Sep 11, 2011)

Just because Laurie Penny is not always consistent, is from  a priveledged background, a media magnet, makes things up sometimes, doesn't mean she can't write a good article and that is a very good article, bang on..


----------



## treelover (Sep 11, 2011)

oh, and her anger she displays about the dismantling of the welfare state is genuine and heartfelt, she has/had a partner who was on disability benefits..


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 11, 2011)

Why did she go private then?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The spiked bloke commented her running around like edith sitwell. Pretty much spot on. She displays all the class prejudice she's supposed to be attacking.


What spiked bloke?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 11, 2011)

He's right. This thread demonstrates it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 11, 2011)

I particularly like the heated argument as to whether Muslims should be kicked out because they're a bunch of murderers and rapists, or because they aren't white.

(eta: to make it clear, that's in the comment thread there, not in O'Neill's piece)


----------



## _angel_ (Sep 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He's right. This thread demonstrates it.


ill fitting suits?


----------



## treelover (Sep 11, 2011)

Has anyone encountered the two knobs who made the comments on that video and who are they?

don't mean names...


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 11, 2011)

redwatch named who they thought they were


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2011)

There Defo UAF becuase the Video title on youtube says UAF in it....


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 11, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> brilliant, thanks for the heads up! bbc says 200 and it seems they were outnumbered from pix. also after last weeks expense and fanny aboot in london few of them would have had the cash (or will) to get up there. the infidel splinter is more openly fascist which is a move away from EDL policies. cos theyre NWI, NWE, SDL and other grupuscules, the wannabe leaders will squabble and the inevitable fash fall oots will follow. more leaders than soldiers has always knacked them. look at the violent fallouts over the last year in the EDL. here's hoping!



They were outnumbered however as Joe Reilly has said elsewhere UAF had their demo hundreds of yards away. Within sight of each other but frankly utterly pointless on both 'sides'. Martin Smith's rather bizarre and frankly revisionist approach to reporting is worthy of an award for fictional writing.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He's right. This thread demonstrates it.



The article aside this is vomit worthy too.....



> *an independent online phenomenon dedicated to raising the horizons of humanity by waging a culture war of words against misanthropy, priggishness, prejudice, luddism, illiberalism and irrationalism in all their ancient and modern forms.*



I can't help feel that most of the time when the likes of O'Neill and his pals attack liberals it's a case of one shower of wankers bemoaning a shower of cunts.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Brendon O fucking Neill - that Revolutionary Communist Party LM Spiked GMmuncher who chose pop journalism & funding opps over real involvement in working class politics.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He's right. This thread demonstrates it.


Spiked are afraid of engaging in working class politics. 
Spiked are corporate cock suckers


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Sunny Hundal and a few others are flashmobbing both MAC and EDL wingnuts today:





> At a pub near US Embassy. Group of EDL people here. No sign of 'Muslims for Crusades' yet
> http://twitpic.com/6jd14s


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

EDL have now placed a wreath at the US embassy, and police are telling them to leave or be arrested under Section 14, and EDL are saying they'll stay.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 11, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> EDL have now placed a wreath at the US embassy, and police are telling them to leave or be arrested under Section 14, and EDL are saying they'll stay.



Let's hope they stay & get arrested.

What we need is moar EDL members locked-up & on hunger strike.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Let's hope they stay & get arrested.
> 
> What we need is moar EDL members locked-up & on hunger strike.


I wish I'd been a fly on the wall as the police made SDL/EDL puffing and wheezing members climb 200 steps in Edinburgh on Saturday. Apparently they also complained about the elevator being switched off in the tube station for their Aldgate demo in East London.


----------



## treelover (Sep 11, 2011)

I don't think MAC are going to turn up, it was a provocation, though if they do they can get about 100 which can make quite a noise, etc..


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 11, 2011)

They are there already...being reported on the radio just now.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Got that SWP-Hamas fake foto source yet, treelover?

From Sunny:



> There's about 50 Muslims Against Crusades here. On the other side, are the EDL lot
> http://twitpic.com/6jdpn7http://twitpic.com


----------



## treelover (Sep 11, 2011)

oh dear, tomorrows tabloid headlines are going to be ferocious..


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 11, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Sunny Hundal and a few others are flashmobbing both MAC and EDL wingnuts today



Hundal flashmobbing? lmao


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Police moved EDL away and MAC are holding their planned demo (5 mins ago)


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Hundal flashmobbing? lmao


It's a Muslims Against Extremists intiative against MAC and EDL 
MAE are standing directly opposite the MAC


----------



## spawnofsatan (Sep 11, 2011)

Hundals last flash mob was about 6 people wasn't it....


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

spawnofsatan said:


> Hundals last flash mob was about 6 people wasn't it....


No idea, but It's the act that counts


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Sunny reports that a group called The Peacemakers have turned up

Here's Sunny's photo of the Peacemaker Lady http://twitpic.com/6je8k7


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 11, 2011)

You and some mates going somewhere is not a flashmob.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You and some mates going somewhere is not a flashmob.


I'm not knocking the impromptu activism as others are turning up to stand with Muslims Against Extremists in their opposition to MAC and EDL at the US Embassy.

It was only called for a few hours ago. Give it chance. Anything is better than nothing at all.
Leaving the goonshow that is MAC and EDL unopposed would be far worse.


----------



## spawnofsatan (Sep 11, 2011)

The activism is fine Luther, its just Sunny is the most egotistical self promoting wanker on the net.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 11, 2011)

A friends t-shirt;


----------



## spawnofsatan (Sep 11, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> A friends t-shirt;



Replace communism with Nirvana


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

The actions against MAC and EDL wingnuts are necessary.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 11, 2011)

Hundal takes some beating!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 11, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> I'm not knocking the impromptu activism as others are turning up to stand with Muslims Against Extremists in their opposition to MAC and EDL at the US Embassy.
> 
> It was only called for a few hours ago. Give it chance. Anything is better than nothing at all.
> Leaving the goonshow that is MAC and EDL unopposed would be far worse.


Hundal's got a right to go where he likes, as have his friends - no problem with what he's doing - but it's not a flashmob is it?


----------



## spawnofsatan (Sep 11, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> The actions against MAC and EDL extremists are necessary.



Ok, i'll give you George Galloway and maybe Laurie Penny, but its a close run race


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 11, 2011)

Laurie Penny, another egotistical self promoting wanker.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

G-d hates terrorism - the Muslim Peacemakers'



911remembered demo outside the US Embassy in opposition to the extremoloon MAC


----------



## spawnofsatan (Sep 11, 2011)

Is that MAC scarfed up behind the meat wagon?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 11, 2011)

Nice day for it anyway.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 11, 2011)

old bill look well bored


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

spawnofsatan said:


> Is that MAC scarfed up behind the meat wagon?


Yes, and that's apparently as close as they would allow the nice Muslim Peacemakers' lady to get to the 100-strong MAC & other wingnut whackos demo

Although it's a shame no-one has tried to persuade police to allow someone through the line to steal the megaphone off those MAC motormouths


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 11, 2011)

Maybe Hundal will launch his flashmob & grab the megaphone


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 11, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Brendon O fucking Neill - that Revolutionary Communist Party LM Spiked GMmuncher who chose pop journalism & funding opps over real involvement in working class politics.


Tell us about their connections man. Tell us what's really behind what's really behind.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Tell us about their connections man. Tell us what's really behind what's really behind.


I barely waste any time with them, except occasionally to state the fact that they have no real involvement in working class politics.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 11, 2011)

Yet you waste you time - no, you boast of your research -  on these pointless connections the edl have with other groups?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Maybe Hundal will launch his flashmob & grab the megaphone


MAC and EDL are being moved away now.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 11, 2011)

By Hundal?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> <snipped for brevity>


butchers and brendan, sitting in a tree ...


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> By Hundal?


LOL!


----------



## audiotech (Sep 11, 2011)

See you Tommy!

[/Glaswegian accent]


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

After numerous minor scuffles with EDL supporters along Edgware Rd, MAC are now at Regents Pk mosque.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 11, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> G-d hates terrorism - the Muslim Peacemakers'
> 
> View attachment 13338
> 
> 911remembered demo outside the US Embassy in opposition to the extremoloon MAC



My word, those coppers are looking fucking bored.


----------



## cantsin (Sep 11, 2011)

treelover said:


> oh, and her anger she displays about the dismantling of the welfare state is genuine and heartfelt, she has/had a partner who was on disability benefits..



any response to Butchers pointing out that PA,  the paragon of socialist virtue,  actually went private re: her partner ? I understand your reluctance to start responding  to the point blank refutations of the garbage you spout on here - you'd be at it all fucking day long if you started - but it would be nice to hear your view on this one . Thanks in advance .


----------



## treelover (Sep 11, 2011)

Dr Abuse...


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2011)

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/554/5830016681.png

EDL member stabbed in London ( according to the EDL that is )


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2011)

http://www.blottr.com/breaking-news/edl-clash-locals-edgware-road

*EDL clash with locals in Edgware Road*


Air Ambluance so yeah someone has been hurt badly.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2011)

Some Footage of MAC idiots then EDL idiots....


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 11, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He's right. This thread demonstrates it.



Falling on deaf ears


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 11, 2011)

I wasn't aware that  Virgin sponsored air ambulances


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.blottr.com/breaking-news/edl-clash-locals-edgware-road
> 
> *EDL clash with locals in Edgware Road*
> 
> Air Ambluance so yeah someone has been hurt badly.



However an unverified EDL report from 50 mins ago says the two who were stabbed are fine now with no serious damage and the entire incident was caught on video which is now with the police.

Not sure what's true and what's not at the moment.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 11, 2011)

Radio 5 announced ( after broadcasting an excruciatingly bland speech by Prince Charles) 10 arrests, 2 stabbed .


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2011)

I can think of know better way to respect the dead than ten arrests and two stabbings... well done eveyone involved!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 11, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Let's hope they stay & get arrested.
> 
> What we need is moar EDL members locked-up & on hunger strike.


i disagree. what we need is more demoralised edl members spreading demoralisation. and it's easier for them to spread demoralisation if they're not inside.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2011)

http://www.demotix.com/news/826626/edl-members-get-stabbed-edgware-road-london

edl-members-get-stabbed-edgware-road-london


----------



## treelover (Sep 11, 2011)

'The group of around 100 men shouted "USA terrorists" and brandished anti-American placards'

MAC seem to be growing 100 is a fair few..


----------



## past caring (Sep 11, 2011)

100 - for their biggy? A national mobilisation, basically? You're away with the fucking fairies, chief.

More worrying (but no surprise, given the demographic) is that the reports of the stabbings are saying "Muslim youths" as the perpetrators - could be a bit of a coup for the EDL if they play it the right way (they won't).


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 11, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'The group of around 100 men shouted "USA terrorists" and brandished anti-American placards'
> 
> MAC seem to be growing 100 is a fair few..



given that a few years ago (post 7/7) there were estimated to be about 4000 people in the various hard-line islamist groups - hizb, al-mujiharoun etc etc, and given that members of the vast majority of these groups did not turn up to the demo, i wouldn't call that "growing"


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 11, 2011)

come on this is a major thing for them, this is their chance to "defend" "their" area etc etc - and only 100 of the fuckers turned up? if anything it shows the lack of support hardcore Islamism has among the british public and how that support has dropped in the last few years, rather than increased. i've been at demos against the bombings of gaza where there were a few of the fuckers - black/green flags, military-style clothing, shouting islamist slogans and so on. where were they today? they couldn't have cared enough to turn up to what could have been a "big day" for them to show their "strength", so either they've realised it's a total waste of time or they've changed their views, and a group like the edl should be a propaganda gift to them, enough for them to mobilise their activists etc - but this doesn't seem to have materialised.

i would also have thought that the leaders of these groups (although perhaps not Hizb because they're obsessed with appearing "moderate") would have put a great emphasis on turning up to an event of this nature and "building" it to make it a "success" and showing that the islamist groups still had some teeth. Maybe i've just spend too much time as a trot, but would the leadership of radical islamist groups really tell their members to stay away (or, if told, would the members really stay away by themselves, to the point where only 100 turned up??) You would expect that a significant proportion of the members of these groups would turn up? I just find this so hard to believe, and the only explanation I can think of is that either ideological islamists have come to the conclusion that groups like MAC and attacking the EDL are a total waste of time (altho you'd have thought that they'd have had some other presence somewhere else) and they're waiting for something better to come along, or there are actually significantly less islamists than there were a few years ago, or the original figures were wrong (or possibly a combination of both)

100 really is a surprisingly poor turnout ...


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Radio 5 announced ( after broadcasting an excruciatingly bland speech by Prince Charles) 10 arrests, 2 stabbed .


Ta. Demotix (thanks Bob) are reporting police confirm 2 stabbed.

But none of the reports (Daily Fail, Demotix) are reporting the small but reportable presence of MuslimsAgainstExtremists and Muslim Peacemakers - some of whom travelled the length of the country (almost) because they felt so strongly that MAC should not protest w/o Muslims showing they were against their extremism.

e2a: Daily Mail do feature several lines devoted to MAE and MP but no photographs unfortunately, and citation is between two photos of extremist MAC and split by links to other articles.


----------



## treelover (Sep 11, 2011)

there were only about 40 when the Luton thing happened, and no its not a lot and I shouldn't have said they are growing, but this was high profile, many would stay away for fear of being identified


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 11, 2011)

FFS treelover, every year the shouty ranty extremist wingnuts shout burn the US flag outside the US Embassy on 9/11 - it's an annual rantfest for them. It's not growing, and it's no more high profile than usual as the press give them air every year.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 12, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> A friends t-shirt;


That almost maybe use the like button.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

VNN posters having a bit of fun about MAC/EDL on their site. MAC 100 - pisspoor and shows them to be a tiny minority of eejits. EDL 60? for national dmeos these numbers are shite. also the EDL demo at bedford prison (30 present) is still claiming tommy robinson is a political prisoner whose human rights are being breached. he was nicked for assault (3rd time?), bailed under conditions. broke the conditions, so jailed. what is political about that? he is a petty criminal who does not understand the law.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

the stabbing was outside wetherspoons! can they not find any other boozers?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

good piece on yesterday!
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-violence-mars-9/11-memorial

and one on the SDL
http://scottishantifascist.org.uk/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

EDL speaking on 'behalf of the british public.' thanks lads! very big of you!
http://twitpic.com/6jldna
they complain that they got trouble. isnt that they went for?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

hel' hath no fury' gowers explanation of the poor EDL
http://twitpic.com/6jkuhs/full
love how she says where were the moderate muslims. well love, like most moderates staying away from fascist thugs and arsehole publicity seekers (both sides).


----------



## Corax (Sep 12, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> VNN posters having a bit of fun about MAC/EDL on their site. MAC 100 - pisspoor and shows them to be a tiny minority of eejits. EDL 60? for national dmeos these numbers are shite. also the EDL demo at bedford prison (30 present) is still claiming tommy robinson is a political prisoner whose human rights are being breached. he was nicked for assault (3rd time?), bailed under conditions. broke the conditions, so jailed. what is political about that? *he is a petty criminal who does not understand the law.*


I think he understands the law just fine.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 12, 2011)

treelover said:


> i sense some herd mentality here, going to take a break....



How will we ever cope without you here to inject some "common sense" (Copyright Daily Mail, 1973)

By the way - smurfs are blue - why on earth would anyone "black up" to impersonate them? I suspect you've made that one up treelover.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 12, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'The group of around 100 men shouted "USA terrorists" and brandished anti-American placards'
> 
> MAC seem to be growing 100 is a fair few..


No it isn't. 100 is nothing. The Rally Against Debt got 50 more than they did and they're not a "growing" movement either.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> No it isn't. 100 is nothing. The Rally Against Debt got 50 more than they did and they're not a "growing" movement either.


agreed. 100 for a national demo? rubbish turnout! a small group of muslims against muslims against crusades were there too which didnt merit much comment on the press. the temptation to let EDL and MAC battle it out to the end is quite appealing. choudhary is a stooge:
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/islam4uk-off/
and
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/islam4uk-ban/
total cop magnet.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2011)

I'm sure it's more than likley they got stabbed up by locals than MAC.

Why would MAC be at the pub two hours after the demo?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I'm sure it's more than likley they got stabbed up by locals than MAC.
> 
> Why would MAC be at the pub two hours after the demo?



bob from what i can ascertain, after plod had moved on em towards edgeware road they ended up in (surprise surprise!) wetherspoons. the ghastly hel 'and damnation' gower is saying a group of muslim fellers came past and stormed the pub. it is not clear if they were even at the MAC demo. whatever the sequence of events, pub furniture and pint pots were thrown about and 2 lads got stabbed. 1 was released quickly the other may have been kept overnight. i somehow get the feeling that beered up, pissed off EDL lads would not let the chance for a bit of casual racist abuse sip by tho! must be a bit embarassing for the EDL who immediately played victim in the hope no one realised that they got turned over!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

feel the wrath of hel gower!
http://www.blottr.com/breaking-news/edl-clash-locals-edgware-road


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2011)

yeah Heil's version of events does not explain why the crime scene was outside the pub.......


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2011)

EDL got much negative press again for being 'disrespectful.' this seems fairly typical of the coverage: http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/gwentnews/9245815.EDITORIAL_COMMENT__Clashes_are_a_disgrace/


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 12, 2011)

Tommy Robinson is free apparently...


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 12, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Tommy Robinson is free apparently...


 
Bugger.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 12, 2011)

News quickly spread of Sir Tommy's incarceration - the Danish Defence League made a nice banner for him and even held up an anti-HBT (LGBT) sign in his honour, maybe in case he accidently dropped the soap in the shower.

Various Center for Security Policy projects, incl. International Civil Liberties Alliance (http://liveweb.archive.org/http://w...h-anniversary-of-911-as-a-political-prisoner/), had been promoting the sensational unfactual story of Sir Tommy's political imprisonment. They only fact they got right was that he spent the 10th anniversary of 9/11 in prison. Other CSP news aggregates such as International Free Press Society linked to the European Right 'news' network that is also campaigning for Tommy's Legal Fee Fund (Danish Peoples' Party's 'europenews.dk').




All disinformation worthy of a conspiraloon site, like Alex Jones' InfoWars. I wonder if CSP have been taking lessons from him?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2011)

Back in court on the 29th Sept in Preston.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Sep 12, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> News quickly spread of Sir Tommy's incarceration - the Danish Defence League made a nice banner for him and even held up an anti-HBT (LGBT) sign in his honour, maybe in case he accidently dropped the soap in the shower.
> 
> Various Center for Security Policy projects, incl. International Civil Liberties Alliance (http://liveweb.archive.org/http://w...h-anniversary-of-911-as-a-political-prisoner/), had been promoting the sensational unfactual story of Sir Tommy's political imprisonment. They only fact they got right was that he spent the 10th anniversary of 9/11 in prison. Other CSP news aggregates such as International Free Press Society linked to the European Right 'news' network that is also campaigning for Tommy's Legal Fee Fund (Danish Peoples' Party's 'europenews.dk').
> 
> All disinformation worthy of a conspiraloon site, like Alex Jones' InfoWars. I wonder if CSP have been taking lessons from him?


with friends like these....etc etc...


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 12, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> News quickly spread of Sir Tommy's incarceration - the Danish Defence League made a nice banner for him and even held up an anti-HBT (LGBT) sign in his honour, maybe in case he accidently dropped the soap in the shower.
> 
> Various Center for Security Policy projects, incl. International Civil Liberties Alliance (http://liveweb.archive.org/http://w...h-anniversary-of-911-as-a-political-prisoner/), had been promoting the sensational unfactual story of Sir Tommy's political imprisonment. They only fact they got right was that he spent the 10th anniversary of 9/11 in prison. Other CSP news aggregates such as International Free Press Society linked to the European Right 'news' network that is also campaigning for Tommy's Legal Fee Fund (Danish Peoples' Party's 'europenews.dk').
> 
> ...



That flag and those logos aren't fash-like at all. Not at all


----------



## Corax (Sep 12, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Tommy Robinson is free apparently...


He's certainly _cheap_.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> That flag and those logos aren't fash-like at all. Not at all


That reply and those comments aren't ironic at all. Not all all


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 12, 2011)

Whats the website you got that image from? Im trying to find that logo on the internet without success


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 12, 2011)

btw have you seen this?






and im assuming that help for heroes didnt endorse this crap? what would they do if they found out these fash were using their logos as a gimmick?

edited cos what i said was daft, see below


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## Pickman's model (Sep 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Whats the website you got that image from? Im trying to find that logo on the internet without success


if you simply google 'danish defence league' you will find the logo if not the picture. luther blissett's mention of the ddl gave me the clew.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2011)

Help for Heroes hate the EDL, as do the charity Soilders of our streets (who refused a donation for the EDL)

Help for Heroes have put out serveal stametns saying they have nothing to do with the EDL


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> btw have you seen this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


fw

you're getting a bit conspiracy like. those are the help for heroes colours, which can be readily seen on their website: http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 12, 2011)

nah i was just wondering bout it cos the designs were similar, but fair play 

I cant imagine H4H being too happy about their logo/designs being used in this way tho!!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2011)

Pfft they didnt even iron the England flag before they took it out.....


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 12, 2011)

*The Night of the Mystery Knives*
First comes a picture of an air ambulance from here: http://yfrog.com/khl28qxj, uploaded around 1 day and 2 hours ago

Then comes a report in blottr, last updated 19:06 http://www.blottr.com/breaking-news/edl-clash-locals-edgware-road, presumably with the picture of the air ambulance added at 19:06.

Then comes this http://www.demotix.com/news/826626/edl-members-get-stabbed-edgware-road-london from Joe O'Brien, showing a crime scene outside Weatherspoons and referencing stabbings (citizen journalism):


> "Police outside the JD Wetherspoon pub confirmed two EDL members were stabbed and whist i was at the scene of the incident detectives and a forensic team were securing the site."



The actual time for these images is not known, but the air ambulance image was taken between 18:30 and before 19:06, and the other image of the crime scene was taken during sunset at light-up time outside the Tyburn pub, Marble Arch, so around 19:20.

Then comes a report today quoting blottr from http://freedomnewsnetworkDOTcoDOTuk/9-11-at-the-american-embassy-in-london (c&p into browser and replace DOT with .)

And one from the Evening Standard today, reporting doubt about the identity of the alleged stabees: 





> Two men were seriously hurt when they were stabbed in clashes between the English Defence League and Muslim protesters after a 9/11 memorial service in London. The two men are thought to have been on opposing sides during a pitched battle outside a pub in Edgware Road last night.



An eyewitness acccount reports:


> "There was a group of EDL guys drinking outside the pub when a large group of Muslims walked past. The EDL started hurling racist abuse at the Muslims who took offence. They got angry and were yelling back," an eyewitness to the battle, who did not wish to be named by the Evening Standard, said. "Then the EDL guys picked up pub furniture and started throwing glasses and chairs and tables at the group in the street. It was chaos. At first it was just 10 EDL guys but that number quickly swelled to about 50 people," he added.



On their facebook page last night, EDL members _alleged_ both stabees were theirs, and that one of the two stabees was sent home on the train, and that another (Bexley/Hyam) is still in hospital.

But now, mysteriously, comes a HnH article alleging that neither police nor hospitals know anything about two EDL being stabbed, and that Billy Bunter Baker has declared open season on all Muslims. The latter is definitely true, but not news as he's been saying that for a while now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 12, 2011)

is yaxley-lennon still refusing food?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 12, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> is yaxley-lennon still refusing food?


'E's aht. Up before the beak on 29th in Preston for assaulting ex-squaddie.


----------



## Corax (Sep 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Pfft they didnt even iron the England flag before they took it out.....


No respect.  Someone should stand up to these unpatriotic bastards.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 12, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> 'E's aht. Up before the beak on 29th in Preston for assaulting ex-squaddie.


no, is he still refusing food not where is he?


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 12, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> is yaxley-lennon still refusing food?


He's out isn't he? Seen eating a doner kebab on his way home from the pub in Luton earlier.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 12, 2011)

This just in from EDL news: http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-lie-about-stabbings



> Hope not Hate have contacted local hospitals and the police and neither have been informed of the alleged stabbings, despite the EDL's admin wall stating that one member had been released from hospital and the other being in a serious condition and was being kept in overnight.


----------



## krink (Sep 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> is yaxley-lennon still refusing food?



If he is a 'true patriot' he will be so let's hope so!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> This just in from EDL news: http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-lie-about-stabbings



Seen a police request for info, so it does look like two men where stabbed up.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Seen a police request for info, so it does look like two men where stabbed up.


When you have more info, could you let us know.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 13, 2011)

Im hearing Robbofash/lennon has been released??? has anyone else heard this... cant find confirmation


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2011)

Only confirmation i have seen is the EDL wall saying he's out, i did hear that he may have been released to attend another court hearing? not sure about that.

Luther the info you need is here

http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Witnesses-to-double-stabbing-sought/1400002968078/1257246745782


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Only confirmation i have seen is the EDL wall saying he's out, i did hear that he may have been released to attend another court hearing? not sure about that.
> 
> Luther the info you need is here
> 
> http://content.met.police.uk/Appeal/Witnesses-to-double-stabbing-sought/1400002968078/1257246745782


Ta Bob - have forwarded it to the other EDL watchers.

EDL News have now issued: http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/retraction-edl-and-stabbings


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Help for Heroes hate the EDL, as do the charity Soilders of our streets (who refused a donation for the EDL)
> 
> Help for Heroes have put out serveal stametns saying they have nothing to do with the EDL



Soldiers off our streets is a BNP front you goon. They had extensive links with the EDL - including the EDL linking to them on the web/facebook - until SOTS supremo and former BNP fulltimer & RO Bill Murray had some sort of spat with them.

Neither are they a charity, unless that's changed in the last couple of months. SOTS turnover has never been enough to register with the charities commission, which is handy for them. It's a blatant front and a quick google would have established this instead of parading them as some sort of bulwark against the fucking EDL.

(ps I am only back briefly, fw I will text you soon)


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 13, 2011)

No prob mate


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Soldiers off our streets is a BNP front you goon. They had extensive links with the EDL - including the EDL linking to them on the web/facebook - until SOTS supremo and former BNP fulltimer & RO Bill Murray had some sort of spat with them.
> 
> Neither are they a charity, unless that's changed in the last couple of months. SOTS turnover has never been enough to register with the charities commission, which is handy for them. It's a blatant front and a quick google would have established this instead of parading them as some sort of bulwark against the fucking EDL.
> 
> (ps I am only back briefly, fw I will text you soon)



Seen as they hate the EDL and refused money donated by the EDL then only part it got wrong is that they are not registerd then.... lol


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 13, 2011)

Why are the EDL News website telling people to go to the police?!


----------



## Corax (Sep 13, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Neither are they a charity, unless that's changed in the last couple of months. SOTS turnover has never been enough to register with the charities commission, which is handy for them. It's a blatant front and a quick google would have established this instead of parading them as some sort of bulwark against the fucking EDL.



A "quick google"...



> Soldiers Off The Street Registered England/Wales Charity No. 1137594.
> Soldiers Off The Street Registered Scotland Charity No. SC042204.


http://www.soldiersoffthestreet.com/



> 26 August 2010 Registered



http://www.charity-commission.gov.u...teredCharityNumber=1137594&SubsidiaryNumber=0


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2011)

So yeah like anyways...


----------



## Corax (Sep 13, 2011)

I do concur that by all accounts they're a fash front though.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2011)

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/hungry_for_justice_edl_leader_released_1_3048024

*Hungry for justice - EDL leader released*

A source said: “There was a big concern because he is so high profile, so they kept him away from the other prisoners. He was classed as a vulnerable inmate.

^ Nonce wing

“His hunger strike only lasted 24 hours and then he gave up.”

^  LOLOLOLOLOLOL EDLOLOLOLOL


----------



## thriller (Sep 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/hungry_for_justice_edl_leader_released_1_3048024
> 
> “His hunger strike only lasted 24 hours and then he gave up.”



lmao.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/hungry_for_justice_edl_leader_released_1_3048024
> 
> *Hungry for justice - EDL leader released*
> 
> ...


to be fair that's about 18 hours than i expected him to last.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Why are the EDL News website telling people to go to the police?!


fuck knows


----------



## john x (Sep 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Why would MAC be at the pub two hours after the demo?



To have a crafty half when they thought no-one was looking?
     john x


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2011)

He didnt eat prison food all week ( so he calims ) because it's all Halal. Then when he got out? he went for a Nandos..... 

you could make this shit up.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 13, 2011)

I bet he had a ruby after his hot action in nonse wings the shower.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2011)

http://www.northampton.ac.uk/news/a...-league-published-at-international-conference



> A major report on the ideology, structure and development of the English Defence League (EDL) will be launched at an international conference at The University of Northampton next week.



http://www.northampton.ac.uk/events/event/258/


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 14, 2011)




----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> A "quick google"...
> 
> http://www.soldiersoffthestreet.com/
> 
> http://www.charity-commission.gov.u...teredCharityNumber=1137594&SubsidiaryNumber=0



having been approached by them to work together over 'street' issues.... I can confirm they are vile racists.....
Their solution is to deport 'non-natives' (their words) and hey presto, homelessness is resolved 
such a slimey exploitive angle they use.... who in effect have done nothing to assist those in need....


----------



## Corax (Sep 14, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> having been approached by them to work together over 'street' issues.... I can confirm they are vile racists.....
> Their solution is to deport 'non-natives' (their words) and hey presto, homelessness is resolved
> such a slimey exploitive angle they use.... who in effect have done nothing to assist those in need....


No disagreement with that.  I followed it up with a post clarifying that they're still fash scum.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 15, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Help for Heroes hate the EDL



Thank christ, I was having a mini panic after seeing the edl/help for heroes pic. Ive donated to help for heroes on a few occassions (they were amazing to the family when a freind got killed in afghanistan a year or so ago).


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 15, 2011)

Unfortunately it ends up with people thinking they're dodgy - they must fucking hate them after seeing things like that.I've also heard good things about H4H too


----------



## manny-p (Sep 15, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> G-d hates terrorism - the Muslim Peacemakers'
> 
> View attachment 13338
> 
> 911remembered demo outside the US Embassy in opposition to the extremoloon MAC



Liking the pollypocket


----------



## Geri (Sep 15, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9rZdEXRqt8

Pill, North Somerset


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 16, 2011)

Geri said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9rZdEXRqt8
> 
> Pill, North Somerset


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 16, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> having been approached by them to work together over 'street' issues.... I can confirm they are vile racists.....
> Their solution is to deport 'non-natives' (their words) and hey presto, homelessness is resolved
> such a slimey exploitive angle they use.... who in effect have done nothing to assist those in need....



what are street issues?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 16, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> what are street issues?


homeless issues.... street issues....


----------



## john x (Sep 16, 2011)

> "Tommy Robinson who has been charged twice for being a defender of England, *is unjust and excessive* compared to Muslims..."



My words?

No, those of the idiot EDL supporter who started the e-petition to have 'Sir' Tommy released from jail!

Just as well only 200 people signed it!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/13200

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 16, 2011)

the clue in that one is the name of who started it 

Created by:
Helen Sheila Growler


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2011)

good pix!
http://www.demotix.com/news/826955/mac-clash-edl-route-us-embassy-london-central-mosque


----------



## john x (Sep 16, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> the clue in that one is the name of who started it
> 
> Created by:
> Helen Sheila Growler



She also is 'demanding' an inquiry into MAC. Or is it an inquiry into the Government?

Another confused petition from the delightful Hel 'BNP C-18' Gower.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/16866

Note the unbelievably inappropriate use of the word 'atrocity' in this petition! 

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 16, 2011)

yeah that one is hers, the first isint... it's Growler


----------



## skitr (Sep 16, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> good pix!
> http://www.demotix.com/news/826955/mac-clash-edl-route-us-embassy-london-central-mosque









This picture looks like it's been taken straight out of a Danny Dyer football hooligan film. Or Eastenders.


----------



## treelover (Sep 16, 2011)

10 people protesting in Edinburgh against Duncan Smith, while last week a thousand protested against the SDL, which in the long term is the most destructive?

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/09/484750.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2011)

skitr said:


> the guy with the stick, the jack straw lookalike, tubs next to him, and the guy doing thsat teenage 'come on then, let's have it' - dyer indeed!
> 
> This picture looks like it's been taken straight out of a Danny Dyer football hooligan film. Or Eastenders.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 16, 2011)

you do know not eveyone who stands against the EDL is a lefty yeah?

some people just hate racist pricks, i know it's fucking mental to think about, but it's true, some people just hate right wing violent racist cunts and dont feel the need to go to other demos.

Madness i tell you.


----------



## john x (Sep 16, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah that one is hers, the first isint... it's Growler


Hah ha!

I thought that was a typo! 

john x


----------



## albionism (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm slightly confused.....are those people in the above pic EDL or anti-EDL?


----------



## treelover (Sep 16, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> you do know not eveyone who stands against the EDL is a lefty yeah?
> 
> some people just hate racist pricks, i know it's fucking mental to think about, but it's true, some people just hate right wing violent racist cunts and dont feel the need to go to other demos.
> 
> Madness i tell you.



'Earlier this year a friend of mine, unable to defend herself due to her physical disability, was punched in the head by a man. As she lay there stunned he ranted about "scrounging scum" and the like - he then got into his car with his laughing girlfriend and drove off.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...ment-benefits?commentpage=2#start-of-comments


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 16, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'Earlier this year a friend of mine, unable to defend herself due to her physical disability, was punched in the head by a man. As she lay there stunned he ranted about "scrounging scum" and the like - he then got into his car with his laughing girlfriend and drove off.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...ment-benefits?commentpage=2#start-of-comments



Must have been a lefty what done it.


----------



## treelover (Sep 16, 2011)

i am saying the left has the wrong priorities, ok...


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 16, 2011)

Good for you, now go tell a lefty what ever they are or who they are etc.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 16, 2011)

treelover said:


> i am saying the left has the wrong priorities, ok...



How do you know the scum who did that weren't fash?


----------



## treelover (Sep 16, 2011)

froggie I am saying, imo that for progressives not to begin actively campaigning against the sort of language the Govt and tabloids are using which is leading to actual violence on disabled people and the govt welfare cuts which are diminishing people's lives is fundamentally and morally wrong and the obsession with fringe groups is a sign of weakness not strength..


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 16, 2011)

how do you know people aren't campaigning against it? I'm campaigning against it


----------



## treelover (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm talking about numbers getting involved and organisations, big ones, the equivalent of HNH, UAF, but its not as sexy

you do good stuff froggie as i have said before, not sure why you get defensive

anyway,i will leave the issue for another thread..


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 16, 2011)

Loads of people are campaigning about the atos/dwp stuff from loads of different political persuasions on here, trots, anarchists on here, me, smokedout (smokedout's done LOADS tbh and fair play to him) bigtom etc to name a few


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 16, 2011)

And I'm sorry but the EDL stuff isn't just a "fringe group". As the recession hits, as we've been pointing out on here fucking endlessly, the far right has made, and will continue to make, massive gains. In a town near to my local area the race equality centre has had its funding almost completely cut and is threatened with closure. Look what's happening in France ffs, hard-right policies are becoming normalised, you think that couldn't happen here? you think that we shouldn't show our opposition to disgusting racism?


----------



## skitr (Sep 16, 2011)

The need for numbers against fash now, is greater than ever. Anti fash movements can't afford to politicise themselves (publicily anyway), through risk of alienating people from one side or the other. Even the DM have hatred for BNP and EDL, they prefer their racism at a more subtle level as we all know.


----------



## john x (Sep 16, 2011)

treelover said:


> not sure why you get defensive



She's not getting defensive, just pointing out that you can be involved with more than one campaign at a time. 

And if fascism is allowed to flourish, things will get a hell of a lot worse for the disabled (as well as everyone else, including the idiots of the EDL!)

john x


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 16, 2011)

skitr said:


> The need for numbers against fash now, is greater than ever. Anti fash movements can't afford to politicise themselves (publicily anyway), through risk of alienating people from one side or the other. Even the DM have hatred for BNP and EDL, they prefer their racism at a more subtle level as we all know.



the thing is that they end up losing credibility if they end up involving people like David Cameron (which is on the list of UAF signatories) which are the ones promoting far-right policies and encoruaging the conditions that allow fascist/far right movements to grow.

anti cuts activists cant NOT afford to be involved in anti fash work (and vice versa).


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 16, 2011)

And of course, as has already been said on the thread, "chav-" hating idiots like those in that video need to be disassociated from.


----------



## Geri (Sep 16, 2011)

BlackArab said:


>


Posted on wrong thread.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2011)

Geri said:


> Posted on wrong thread.


haha


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 16, 2011)

Geri said:


> Posted on wrong thread.



I thought maybe the EDL had held a rally in Pill but almost as bad had to sit through a Worzels song


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 16, 2011)

treelover said:


> i am saying the left has the wrong priorities, ok...



I think you sort of have a point - but if you'd take your "the left is the problem" obsession and leave it to one side for a second you'd probably see that it's a bit more complicated than that. "The left" _is _prioritising welfare issues and the like, we're certainly doing this in Sheffield - where I seem to remember you saying you lived. But when we work on these issues it's us and only us - so it's not as noticable. Anti-racist and anti-war issues mobilise far more people, this is true. But that's not because "the left" is giving them priority over bread and butter issues. Racism and war are "trendy" issues and so it's not just "the left" who attend them - you get people with personal or family connections to the issue (minorities on anti-racist demos, people with ties to the war-torn regions on anti-war demos), you get liberals, you even get pacifist/antiracist conservatives in attendence. The SWP have, in the past, concentrated their efforts on these demos for recruitment purposes but even they appear to be getting better now.

If you go to *any* unemployed workers centre or other voluntary benefits advice/advocacy organisation, or to a mental health or pensioners action group you'll find that everyone there would consider themselves on the left. So if our priorities are wrong what does that say about everyone else?

The reason for the smaller turnouts on welfare issues is the *size* of the left, not its priorities.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 17, 2011)

http://www.kilmarnockstandard.co.uk...-attack-81430-29420925/#.TnO6en2vGwU.facebook

*Teenager admits sickening mosque attack*



> A TEENAGER shouted racial abuse as he kicked and stamped on a 71-year-old grandfather’s head for 10 minutes.



Unsure if EDL/SDL, but this is what happens when people think it's ok to to hate people for their differences.


----------



## thriller (Sep 17, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.kilmarnockstandard.co.uk...-attack-81430-29420925/#.TnO6en2vGwU.facebook
> 
> *Teenager admits sickening mosque attack*
> 
> Unsure if EDL/SDL, but this is what happens when people think it's ok to to hate people for their differences.



urgh. what a filthy animal. 16 years old as well.


----------



## Corax (Sep 17, 2011)

treelover said:


> i am saying the left has the wrong priorities, ok...


What are 'the left' please?

You've been asked to define what you mean by this several times now, by several different posters.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 17, 2011)

http://englishdefenceleague.org/tower-hamlets-the-return/

*EDL to protest outside East London Mosque, unless government publicly accepts three simple facts*


----------



## john x (Sep 17, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://englishdefenceleague.org/tower-hamlets-the-return/
> 
> *EDL to protest outside East London Mosque, unless government publicly accepts three simple facts*



I like the 'We really are getting somewhere' bit.

All this excitement seems to be based on a couple of sympathetic pieces in the Daily Telegraph and the fact that 'Sir' Tommy was asked to do an interview for some Canadian cable channel!

And how in god's name can they say 'last months demonstration in Tower Hamlets was a great success?'

John X


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 17, 2011)

Well one would assume to go back to Tower Hamlets, one would have to have been there first.


----------



## john x (Sep 17, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Well one would assume to go back to Tower Hamlets, one would have to have been there first.


I was going to point that out but I thought it would be cruel. 

God they are going to get fucked if they even try this stunt!

john x


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 18, 2011)

Corax said:


> What are 'the left' please?
> 
> You've been asked to define what you mean by this several times now, by several different posters.



He has been asked this for years now across numerous messageboards and never managed to answer it yet.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://englishdefenceleague.org/tower-hamlets-the-return/
> 
> *EDL to protest outside East London Mosque, unless government publicly accepts three simple facts*





> No word yet from David Cameron about the live debate that he was challenged to by Tommy Robinson



That ^^^ statement and their three demands of the government just demonstrate how far they are up their own arses.

A group that can only get a few hundred to turn out, for what was supposed to be a major national demo, is simply not in any position to be taken seriously, it's just piss-poor trolling of the government.


----------



## john x (Sep 18, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> That ^^^ statement and their three demands of the government just demonstrate how far they are up their own arses.
> 
> A group that can only get a few hundred to turn out, for what was supposed to be a major national demo, is simply not in any position to be taken seriously, it's just piss-poor trolling of the government.



I think you're right.

They are starting to believe their own publicity and facebook posts. The demo on the 3rd. September was a complete disaster. The only 'win' they had was that video of those two goons interviewed about the 'angel' who fell off the bus! Everything else was a total disaster for them. They promised to march into the 'hartland' of Islamic extremism and not only never got into the Borough, but were run when they got close.

I think that they are still at that immature stage where the 'all publicity is good publicity' mantra is still believed.

john x


----------



## kmarxs&sparks (Sep 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://englishdefenceleague.org/tower-hamlets-the-return/
> 
> *EDL to protest outside East London Mosque, unless government publicly accepts three simple facts*





> Any Muslim groups wishing to join our demonstration, or who have any questions, are urged to contact us in advance of the planned demonstration. It’s crucial that we gain your support, because it’s only you who can change the Muslim community from the inside.



I assume that bollocks from the link is just a shite try to make them look as if they aren't a bunch of racist cunts.
That or they've been drinking way too much meths.

Fuck off EDL.


----------



## john x (Sep 18, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHF92Aw7NY&feature=player_embedded#!

"A significant *minor* figure in British politics!" lol

Is he having a dig or is he just thick?

john x


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 18, 2011)

john x said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHF92Aw7NY&feature=player_embedded#!
> 
> "A significant *minor* figure in British politics!" lol
> 
> ...


this would be the nick griffin video discussed a week or two back?


----------



## john x (Sep 18, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> this would be the nick griffin video discussed a week or two back?


 
It might be.

Is there a statute of limitations on what can be discussed and when?

john x


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 18, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> this would be the nick griffin video discussed a week or two back?



Yep, the one where his eyes are a *bit* black, & have bags growing under them, from the lack of sleep caused by his mounting financial problems.

The one where he reaches out to the EDL because he's so desperate for new friends.

And money.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 18, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/6mwtg6

This realates to the stabbings after 9/11 demo....


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 18, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> He has been asked this for years now across numerous messageboards and never managed to answer it yet.



And if you ask him more than once he'll start crying about "bullying".


----------



## john x (Sep 18, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/6mwtg6
> 
> This realates to the stabbings after 9/11 demo....



I take it that *'they have footage of some of ours taken by ours ffs'* means EDL supporters have given the police footage (presumably from mobile phones), which contradict their own 'version' of events! 

Also Mickey 'English' Bayliss, telling people to *'check it before handing it in to the police'* could be construed as attempting to pervert the cause of justice or at the least withholding evidence.

Now what was that Met Witness Appeal line number again! 

john x


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 19, 2011)

Apols if you have had this.

Chart showing history of the EDL

http://twitpic.com/6n0h6r


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 19, 2011)

Not sure if this has been covered yet, but remember the video of those two stupid twats laughing about that EDL nazi bitch getting attacked? Well, one of the guys on it, a comedian called Anthony Richardson, has apparently sent an apology e-mail that some blog has published. Both him nor his mate were bystanders and were not anything to do with any of the Anti EDL protests

Dear Max,​Please print this in full on your blog.​I am writing to you as Anthony Richardson, featured in the ‘UAF Celebrate Violence Against Women in Tower Hamlets‘ video.​I am writing first to apologise about the conduct in the video, and second to tell you that neither Ben Melchiors or Ben Tonge, who have both been misidentified as being the cameraman, played any part at all in it.​The video was recorded in the heat of the moment in the midst of a very volatile situation. We were bystanders and had not been actively involved in either side of the protest. I can categorically state that I am not part of any political party or particular leaning, nor do I condone violence against anyone, particularly women. I said those comments without thinking, and they were part of an extremely badly judged, terribly thought-through reaction to the unusual events of that day. In fact, I was ashamed of what I said as soon as I said it. We know we come across as complete idiots and never did it cross our minds that we would cause so much offence. My comments were completely against my nature and we are truly sorry that we got involved in a situation that we did not understand.​I am also writing this to ask people to stop pursuing Ben Melchiors and Ben Tonge. As I said, they were in no way involved in this. The Ben on the video I do not work with, he is simply an acquaintance of mine. I can assure you he echoes my feelings about the whole matter and has been involved in the writing of this apology.​So, while I realise I can’t take any of this back, I would like to ask you to take this apology for what it is: completely sincere and written with the intention undoing as many of the problems the video has caused as possible. Our comments on the video were out of character and we’re ashamed of them. I certainly do not condone violence against women, or men for that matter and hope that any political differences expressed by anyone in any circumstance in the future never lead to violence, as seen on that day, it doesn’t help anything. I badly misjudged the situation this time round and am sorry.​Yours sincerely,​Anthony Richardson​
http://www.maxfarquar.com/2011/09/a-message-from-anthony-richardson/​
Here's a clip of him trying to be funny on the BBC:​
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/clips/p00d54jk/spout_england_win_the_ashes/​


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 19, 2011)

What a tit


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 19, 2011)

Always said they where not UAF


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2011)

But UAF always claim all the opponents on their demos are UAF


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 19, 2011)

A: this was not at a demo
B: i don't give a fuck what the UAF claim


----------



## Corax (Sep 19, 2011)

Were they 'the left' though?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Sep 19, 2011)

I suppose it's too much to hope for that treelover would ever critically reflect on his propensity towards kneejerk reactions to stuff.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 19, 2011)

Corax said:


> Were they 'the left' though?



Yeah, becuase if you dislike the EDL then you are 100% left. There is no way you could be anything else thats how it works, hate racist cunts = lefty


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 19, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I suppose it's too much to hope for that treelover would ever critically reflect on his propensity towards kneejerk reactions to stuff.



Stop bullying treelover you big bully you


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 19, 2011)

In other better news, the EDL cuaught 7 terroists today and marched them to the police station in Birmingham, well something like that anyway

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14969893


----------



## john x (Sep 19, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Here's a clip of him trying to be funny on the BBC:​
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/clips/p00d54jk/spout_england_win_the_ashes/​



Someone please tell me that that clip pre-dates the 3rd of September! 

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 19, 2011)

treelover said:


> But UAF always claim all the opponents on their demos are UAF


trees! as 'malatesta' has pointed out the EDL operate with a Dubya style if yr not with us yr against us mentality which is politically naive. they also have failed to understand the range of opposition against them: UAF, community groups, militant antifascists, trade unionists, and just local folk (sorry people!) who dont like gangs being bussed in from outside to cause hassle and violence in their towns all these groups are opposed to them as are local councils and plod who see them as unwelcome and disruptive.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 20, 2011)

Donna Mortimer cocks up massively

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/donna-mortimors-speech


----------



## Corax (Sep 20, 2011)

I really hope that's true and that turns out to be her speech.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 20, 2011)

It probably won't be her speech now, that article has gone viral


----------



## john x (Sep 21, 2011)

EDL offshoot, Combined ex-forces (CxF), are now officially a paramilitary organisation with a 'secret' facebook page to discuss operational matters.

http://twitpic.com/6nwfet/full

But don't tell anybody, it's a secret. 

john x


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 21, 2011)

john x said:


> EDL offshoot, Combined ex-forces (CxF), are now officially a paramilitary organisation with a 'secret' facebook page to discuss operational matters.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/6nwfet/full
> 
> ...



Saw the secret bit too late John and already tweeted the link, my sincere apologies


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 21, 2011)

*Tommy Robinson September Video Diary*


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 21, 2011)

They made it private now.... will see if anyone downlaoded it.


----------



## john x (Sep 21, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Saw the secret bit too late John and already tweeted the link, my sincere apologies



That's you in trouble then!



> we will as time goes on have to appoint more quartermasters in order to spread out our equipment in order to assure that all our eggs are not in the same basket and that no one man knows where they all are



Jesus Christ how stupid are these people?

They do know that the cops watch all their forums, don't they?

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 21, 2011)




----------



## krink (Sep 21, 2011)

6 minutes was all i could take.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 21, 2011)

krink said:


> 6 minutes was all i could take.


Lightweight,I got to nine,mind you most of the time I was considering what Bobby Moore would think of this twat.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2011)

they love their little titles dont they the fash. more commanders than footsoldiers usually. this is from  everything £DL site. thanks for an invaluable resource whoever runs it.
http://twitpic.com/6nwfet
this clip seems somehow relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nxo0fS2VMM


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2011)

seems cuddly joanne dickens has been booted out of the £DL. she sas 'never back down, these colours dont run etc' - which certainly wasnt the case when her EDL 'comrades' fucked off and left her to get a boot up the hole. she speaks 'text' very well.
http://twitpic.com/6nvct1
shes also saying 'i aint no racist nor nuffink'  despite all the screengrabs of her ranting away!
http://twitpic.com/6nve1d


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2011)

not that the 'malatestas' condone this kind of thing but here's a pretty interesting video of the £DL no surrender divisions surrendering very much indeed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztyty-6hBz8&feature=related
also features 'that punch!'


----------



## Corax (Sep 21, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>





krink said:


> 6 minutes was all i could take.





peterkro said:


> Lightweight,I got to nine,mind you most of the time I was considering what Bobby Moore would think of this twat.


Unfortunately, if someone knew nothing at all of the EDL and their only source of news was the papers and TV, then it may well all sound very reasonable.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 21, 2011)

For those who would rather chew margaret thatcher's toenails than watch the video:

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/tommys-video-diary


----------



## john x (Sep 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



Love the way he can't be arsed to turn his phone off and has to keep picking it up to look at texts!
john x


----------



## Corax (Sep 22, 2011)

It's deliberate, to demonstrate what a busy and popular guy he is.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 22, 2011)

Egomania.


----------



## revlon (Sep 22, 2011)

no-one want to comment on what he says in the first two minutes?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 22, 2011)

if that's true, then that's seriously worrying. Not that i give a shit about the edl.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 22, 2011)

revlon said:


> no-one want to comment on what he says in the first two minutes?



Well i know why Tommy got his, because he started a massive fight at Blackburn by calling someone out in the crowd of 1000 people, then he nutted some guy in the face after the demo, then started a massive fight with the NWI lads by the busses.

it was propper nawty


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 22, 2011)

revlon said:


> no-one want to comment on what he says in the first two minutes?



Can't watch it at work, what does he say then?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 22, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Can't watch it at work, what does he say then?



He talks about how it's political policing and how he could get a 3-year asbo if he breaks his bail conditions, he says it's a way to stop people going on edl demos and compares it to football banning orders


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 22, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> He talks about how it's political policing and how he could get a 3-year asbo if he breaks his bail conditions, he says it's a way to stop people going on edl demos and compares it to football banning orders



I think "Sir" Tommy is in in need of another bacon sandwich - there's a bloke in Welshpool who can fix him up with that...


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 22, 2011)

Has got big titties for a dude that was on hunger strike....


----------



## john x (Sep 22, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> He talks about how it's political policing and how he could get a 3-year asbo if he breaks his bail conditions, he says it's a way to stop people going on edl demos and compares it to football banning orders


He is talking about this 'two-tier' justice system which he sees as being applied 'politcally'.

What he fails to point out is that this is how the police apply the law to *all* anti-social activity that they are called on to deal with, not just the EDL. The reason that a lot of people on the 'left' aren't served with ASBOs is because they have better things to do and getting into drunken rucks with other football fans and members of the ethnic communities.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 22, 2011)

This is more than likley how every 9/11 should play out from now on.


----------



## krink (Sep 22, 2011)

bob i'm fucking sure you put these vids on youtube, post a link here then remove the vid off youtube just to piss us off!!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 22, 2011)

I think it's more a case of these fucking idiots think that uploading videos of them self shouting abuse at people and acting like cunts is a good idea, then they stop and think about it.... another one will be up soon


----------



## Fingers (Sep 22, 2011)

She got outed by EDL News and deleted the video. EDL News had already taken a copy and put it on LiveLeaks. Link is in here

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/video-shameful-footage-after-the-9/11-memorial


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 22, 2011)

http://www.radicalism-new-media.org...DL_Britains_New_Far_Right_Social_Movement.pdf

The EDL Britains New Far Right Social Movement


----------



## manny-p (Sep 22, 2011)

Fingers said:


> She got outed by EDL News and deleted the video. EDL News had already taken a copy and put it on LiveLeaks. Link is in here
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/video-shameful-footage-after-the-9/11-memorial



What a daft cow.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 22, 2011)

worra cahnt!
another cahnt from se london/kent borders


----------



## Corax (Sep 22, 2011)

Fingers said:


> She got outed by EDL News and deleted the video. EDL News had already taken a copy and put it on LiveLeaks. Link is in here
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/video-shameful-footage-after-the-9/11-memorial


Could EDLNews get a group of people to volunteer to proof read stuff and sort out the regular grammar and spelling snafus?  It bugs me when otherwise worthwhile sites diminish their impact with something so simple to fix.  I'd happily volunteer to be part of said group if needed.

My post's on heer arnt always purfect, but this is onlly a mesage boad


----------



## Corax (Sep 22, 2011)

Fingers said:


> She got outed by EDL News and deleted the video. EDL News had already taken a copy and put it on LiveLeaks. Link is in here
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/video-shameful-footage-after-the-9/11-memorial


I know I shouldn't laugh because they do it to us too, but I did. Nice line by the filth as he's pinning an EDL bloke to the floor with his face half under the riot van:



> *EDL Bloke:* I've got a bad back yeh?





> *Copper*: Well yeah you have now.



Heh.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 22, 2011)

a highlight for sure!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 22, 2011)

Corax said:


> I know I shouldn't laugh because they do it to us too, but I did. Nice line by the filth as he's pinning an EDL bloke to the floor with his face half under the riot van:
> 
> Heh.


it's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## Corax (Sep 22, 2011)

Two questions about the video come immediately to mind:

Why were the police letting her continue, and in closer proximity to (what I assume are) the equally fuckwitted MAC, when they were keeping other EDL fuckwits back and confronting them when they chanted the same things? Is it because she's a girly?
Did that copper really say something along the lines of 'let me drive off and then you can do what you want'?


----------



## john x (Sep 23, 2011)

Corax said:


> Could EDLNews get a group of people to volunteer to proof read stuff and sort out the regular grammar and spelling snafus?



Not just grammar, but content too.

The text refers to her as Jody Hughes who posts on facebook as 'London England' and the caption to the photo refers to her as Jody Andrew AKA England London.

john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 23, 2011)

Corax said:


> Two questions about the video come immediately to mind:
> 
> Why were the police letting her continue, and in closer proximity to (what I assume are) the equally fuckwitted MAC, when they were keeping other EDL fuckwits back and confronting them when they chanted the same things? Is it because she's a girly?
> Did that copper really say something along the lines of 'let me drive off and then you can do what you want'?



No. He said 'Wait for me to drive off, and then you can do what you're doing' (context being her filming what was happening. And it's good that he did allow her to continue filming, because otherwise we wouldn't have footage of a mob of EDL extremists chasing through the streets after 50 or so MAC extremists.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 23, 2011)

Plus people filming/taking photos are quick to upload them to the interweb giving the police useful intelligence of people doing stuff they wouldn't do if the cameraperson was ob.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 23, 2011)

Corax said:


> Two questions about the video come immediately to mind:
> 
> Why were the police letting her continue, and in closer proximity to (what I assume are) the equally fuckwitted MAC, when they were keeping other EDL fuckwits back and confronting them when they chanted the same things? Is it because she's a girly?
> Did that copper really say something along the lines of 'let me drive off and then you can do what you want'?


one of the reasons they let her continue is that it would have taken 2 or 3 cops to deal with her, cops they couldn't (from the looks of the video) spare


----------



## john x (Sep 23, 2011)

Have a look at this for the EDL's 'unbiased' account of events on the day!

http://www.facebook.com/notes/engli...dl-the-american-embassy-91111/258160534218472

And when someone comes along and posts something in opposition to their 'view' of events, they revert to type!



> *Joanna Kempton* My c**t is actually very educated Faheem, you degenerate muslim piece of scum.



john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 23, 2011)




----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 25, 2011)

academic reports on EDL
http://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/papers/view/178301
compared to their version: http://www.vhcpublishing.com/index.html
oh dear me!
(edit: didnt realise bob posted it up there ^)


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 25, 2011)

Whitechapel: the Troof!
'we was driving thru the east end with an anti shariah banner in the window then for some reason, outside the mosques we got attacked'
http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2011/09/24/whitechapel-bus-attack-by-richard/
they went to tower hamlets to cause trouble and got it. its just not fair is it?


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 25, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> academic reports on EDL
> http://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/papers/view/178301
> compared to their version: http://www.vhcpublishing.com/index.html
> oh dear me!
> (edit: didnt realise bob posted it up there ^)



The article only mentions the EDL twice.

Goodwin seems to have a small monopoly on 'academic' studies on the far right


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## The39thStep (Sep 25, 2011)

That Billy Blake book sounds promising:



> _These were the forgotten people, the sons and daughters of old England, here to reclaim their birthright. A mass of coloured flags filled the square, as it was reclaimed in the name of the English people. Here were the descendants of people who built the modern world, their battle flag rich with exotic names from far flung shores. Now more familiar sounding names were being added, Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, London and now Bolton. There were well over 1500 of them, all chanting in unison and drowning out the chants of the anti-fascists. It was pure, crude and brutal Anglo-Saxon defiance. They had a simple message for their opponents, two fingers. We will not submit._


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 25, 2011)

Try these: http://www.radicalism-new-media.org...DL_Britains_New_Far_Right_Social_Movement.pdf (PDF)
It mentions EDL 80 times.

This one: Fear Inc: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/08/islamophobia.html

This one: Islamophobe International: Vigilant Freedom and the English Defence League: http://www.spinwatch.org/-articles-...gilant-freedom-and-the-english-defence-league


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## The39thStep (Sep 26, 2011)

The Goodwin report is quite interesting as it describes six potential responses to the rise of of popular extremist parties ( interesting in itself that he uses the term popular extremism as the language fits entirely with the domestic extremism strand of counter terrorism). Whilst none of these responses include watching the EDL on the Internet and correcting their grammar, he rejects no platform, accommodating their views into main stream politics and  'don't mention the war' tactics and calls for more main stream engagement by main stream parties ( well standing full slates of candidates) and bringing people from different backgrounds together.

In other words bourgeois state anti fascism with no working class political alternative.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 28, 2011)

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/danny-parker/signatures/page/16

Free Danny Parker !!! he was only a little bit racist..... loving the petition from about page 10 on 



> *Name:* Soup Dragon on Sep 27, 2011
> *Comments:* I'm free, to do what I want, any old time Thats because I'm not a racist cunt rotting in prison


----------



## john x (Sep 28, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/danny-parker/signatures/page/16
> 
> Free Danny Parker !!! he was only a little bit racist..... loving the petition from about page 10 on



Love Joanne 'Bus' Dickens' contribution!



> You an edl heroe like me! Dont let them stop you chattin rasist. They neva stoppped me! xxx



john x


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 28, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> loving the petition from about page 10 on


I have never seen that page before in my life


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## Luther Blissett (Sep 29, 2011)

> Four thugs who smashed up a Redbridge mosque before hurling a brick at the imam have been jailed for a total of 12-and-a-half years today.
> Read more: http://www.ilfordrecorder.co.uk/news/news/redbridge_mosque_attackers_jailed_by_judge_1_1073690


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 29, 2011)

EDL Leader Stephen Lennon (Tommy Robinson) goes on trial today in Preston for assault: http://bit.ly/qjivAw


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 29, 2011)

Lets hope it gets kicked to Crown Court.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 29, 2011)

from the petition:_ 'Why oh, why oh, why are pratriots sent to jail whenever they do something illegal? We want justice!'_

Pratriots? Is that another name for an EDL disturbance?


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 29, 2011)

LOL @ the petition, I've posted a thread about it in the general forum to catch anyone that's bored & wants a bit of a laugh - It's time to trash another online petition!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> LOL @ the petition, I've posted a thread about it in the general forum to catch anyone that's bored & wants a bit of a laugh - It's time to trash another online petition!


i like the 929th signature


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## Ranbay (Sep 29, 2011)

Mine


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## Bakunin (Sep 29, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Pratriots? Is that another name for an EDL disturbance?



Reminds me of Steve Sargent of C18 infamy. In Nick Lowles's book 'White Riot', when discussing the iuse of spotters, informers, information gathering and the like, he comes out with an unintentional bit of comedy gold when he states:

'We always were behind in things like intelligence.'

You said it, Steve.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 29, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Mine


they had to start another one as the first one was "ruined by lefties"


----------



## Luther Blissett (Sep 29, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> they had to start another one as the first one was "ruined by lefties"


The other one is called 'keep the racist Danny Parker in jail' or something.


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## frogwoman (Sep 29, 2011)

twats. (re the redbridge link)


----------



## thriller (Sep 29, 2011)

petition signed.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 29, 2011)

oh no! tommy guilty? no? he shd have a bleedin' knight hood etc.
from the ever enteraining everything edl
http://twitpic.com/6sf6qu
lorks a mighty!


----------



## ddraig (Sep 29, 2011)

you can't headbutt one of yer own anymore!
health n safety gorn maaaaaaad


----------



## trampie (Sep 29, 2011)

EDL watch !!!, 168 pages and counting amazing, i dont dispute that these people are potentially dangerous, but England is a right wing country, the three major parties in England are all right wing, New Labour, the Lib-Dems and the Tories [any other parties in England are irrelevant], the Welsh and Scots do have a left wing alternative and often vote accordingly but England doesnt.

So this thread is about right wingers watching right wingers ?, it may well be moderate right wingers watching extremist right wingers but how contradictory, how moderate are the moderates anyway ?, at one time they were initially supporting America and invading Afghanistan, initially supporting Israel and opposing a Palestinian state, they do seem to be moving away from those positions but come on i ask you, right wingers watching right wingers you couldnt make it up, only in England.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 29, 2011)

Nah im cleary a lefty cos i don't like racists, ask Treelover.


----------



## john x (Sep 29, 2011)

trampie said:


> EDL watch !!!, .....
> 
> ....... you couldnt make it up, only in England.



Drink's a terrible thing! 

john x


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Sep 29, 2011)

trampie said:


> EDL watch !!!, 168 pages and counting amazing, i dont dispute that these people are potentially dangerous, but England is a right wing country, the three major parties in England are all right wing, New Labour, the Lib-Dems and the Tories [any other parties in England are irrelevant], the Welsh and Scots do have a left wing alternative and often vote accordingly but England doesnt.
> 
> So this thread is about right wingers watching right wingers ?, it may well be moderate right wingers watching extremist right wingers but how contradictory, how moderate are the moderates anyway ?, at one time they were initially supporting America and invading Afghanistan, initially supporting Israel and opposing a Palestinian state, they do seem to be moving away from those positions but come on i ask you, right wingers watching right wingers you couldnt make it up, only in England.



Give it a rest, chief - you've already banged your gavel on this elsewhere.

Meanwhile - poor old "Tommy", eh?  Good old John Bull bacon-y justice has been crushed by the halal Nando's chicken of a guilty verdict, presumably handed down to the Tango Kid on the orders of the SWP, Searchlight, M15, Fatah, the ISI etc etc etc.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 30, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=177104059034956

edl Birmingham, 29th october.. I wonder if they'll turn up, and how badly local MDL will hurt them this time if they do


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 30, 2011)

trampie said:


> EDL watch !!!, 168 pages and counting amazing, i dont dispute that these people are potentially dangerous, but England is a right wing country, the three major parties in England are all right wing, New Labour, the Lib-Dems and the Tories [any other parties in England are irrelevant], the Welsh and Scots do have a left wing alternative and often vote accordingly but England doesnt.
> 
> So this thread is about right wingers watching right wingers ?, it may well be moderate right wingers watching extremist right wingers but how contradictory, how moderate are the moderates anyway ?, at one time they were initially supporting America and invading Afghanistan, initially supporting Israel and opposing a Palestinian state, they do seem to be moving away from those positions but come on i ask you, right wingers watching right wingers you couldnt make it up, only in England.



That's a very poor troll. Frankly I'm disappointed. Ernestolynch would have rather cut off his own balls than post such a dire effort. Bring back ern!


----------



## Fingers (Sep 30, 2011)

EDL News 2012 Calendar now out (even though it says 2011 this is being corrected)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-news-2012-calendar-now-out


----------



## Corax (Sep 30, 2011)

Good work! 

I shall attend to my duties better this week - busy as hell last.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 1, 2011)

whining little bastard: jailed for assault, guilty of football hooliganism, up again for assault, poppygate, etc.
http://englishdefenceleague.org/my-persecution-as-told-by-tommy-robinson/
he aint being persecuted, hes being prosecuted. for committing offences. a murky past maketh a career criminal.
http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/06/25/unmasked-the-bnp-past-of-the-edl-leader/
they love to play the victim dont they?


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 1, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> whining little bastard: jailed for assault, guilty of football hooliganism, up again for assault, poppygate, etc.
> http://englishdefenceleague.org/my-persecution-as-told-by-tommy-robinson/
> he aint being persecuted, hes being prosecuted. for committing offences. a murky past maketh a career criminal.
> http://1millionunited.org/blogs/blog/2010/06/25/unmasked-the-bnp-past-of-the-edl-leader/
> they love to play the victim dont they?


 
"In Tommy’s own words, his persecution at the hands of the Police and of the British State."

Now there's something about England that's worth defending.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 1, 2011)

this is an interesting document. tommy in with a bunch of sex offenders! section 55 onwardsdescribes him battering a woman. persecution indeed!
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2005/2866.html


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 1, 2011)

If you don't like living by our laws then you can fuck off init.


----------



## john x (Oct 1, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> this is an interesting document. tommy in with a bunch of sex offenders! section 55 onwardsdescribes him battering a woman. persecution indeed!
> http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2005/2866.html



What those on the right who constantly whine about 'political persecution' of Robinson don't seem to realise, is that his conviction for assaulting a police officer who tried to stop him beating his girlfriend *was from 2005.*

This is *three years* before the EDL were even formed!

Minority Report, anyone? 

john x


----------



## Corax (Oct 1, 2011)

Yeah, but he was already white and not a muzzie wasn't he?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 1, 2011)

Two teir system init, Muzzies can walk about saying anything they like using fredoom of peech, as soon as us decent white folk start beating people up for not thinking like us we get nicked? fucking mental init, I blame the lefty fucking press and the lefty commie goverment we have in now....


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 2, 2011)

http://working-class-self-organisat.../they-are-so-fascist-they-dont-even-know.html


----------



## skitr (Oct 2, 2011)

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/edlangels/


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 3, 2011)

Frank Gaffney's Center for Security Policy's project CounterJihad Europa had BIG LONDON MEET w/ Gaffney's CSP project *International Civil Liberties Alliance*, UKIP, *EDL*, *BNP* 'Reform' & 'fluffy fascists' *British Freedom* Party:bit.ly/oHx05N


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 3, 2011)

Free Danny Parker
Free free
Free free free Danny Parker
Free Danny Parker

8 Months in captivity Shoes too small to fit his feet
His body abused, but his mind is still free
You're so blind that you cannot see

Free Danny Parker


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 3, 2011)

skitr said:


> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/edlangels/



shouldn't laugh, but lol 



> *613*
> 
> *Name:* Lol-chopper on Oct 2, 2011​*Comments:* Not only are they sick, but ignorant and pig ugly too. And they reckon they are part of the 'master-race', LOL.





> *615*
> 
> *Name:* The Voice Of Reality on Oct 2, 2011​*Comments:* Do these idiots think that David Cameron will even hear about this petition never mind read it? The EDL are a bunch of insignificant chavs who can't even get 1000 people to their biggest event of the year! Who on earth has told them that they are anything more than a bunch of pissed-up wankers?





> *619*
> 
> *Name:* Tommy The Wank Engine on Oct 2, 2011​*Comments:* The EDL are Disrespectful Cunts





> *623*
> 
> *Name:* Winston Churchill on Oct 3, 2011​*Comments:* I wish to endorse this petition as although I agree with call me Dave about the EDL (and it's inaccurately named "angels" being sick, he failed to mention the fact that the angels are the most hideously ugly set of unshaggable trouts I have ever been unfortunate enough to lay my eyes upon.



...and so it goes on.

These EDL twats seriously don't get the internet, do they?


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 3, 2011)

they can lose the chav stuff and the praise of cameron imo. it's people like him that have given rise to the rise of the edl in the first place.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 3, 2011)

however, this - coursey of melly - is funny, seems the fash's dreams have come true at last and you can at long last download bacon straight from your computer


----------



## john x (Oct 3, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> however, this - coursey of melly - is funny, seems the fash's dreams have come true at last and you can at long last download bacon straight from your computer


Please tell me that's not for real! 

john x


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 3, 2011)

I don't think it's real bacon, but come on! Who wouldn't want a screensaver of a few hearty rashers greeting you from your trip to the bog


----------



## treelover (Oct 4, 2011)

What is happening on the 8th Oct in Leeds with the 'north west infidels' they are the real deal, no equivocating from me on this score...


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 4, 2011)

no idea but, it will probably be a wash out, like the time the british people's party tried to have a demo outside HMV for stocking a rap cd ...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 4, 2011)

treelover said:


> What is happening on the 8th Oct in Leeds with the 'north west infidels' they are the real deal, no equivocating from me on this score...



That's the same day as the Leeds leg of the Jarrow March. Fortunately the Leeds rally is the main regional demo for the Yorkshire area so at least the marchers are likely to have plenty of support if they do encounter these scumbags - and I agree with treelover on this - the EDL aren't really fascist (though I'm sure some of their members are) but the NWI are quite open about their support for the NF & co.


----------



## john x (Oct 5, 2011)

New EDL Angles ARE sick petition! 

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/sickangels/

john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 5, 2011)

> *20*
> 
> *Name:* Liz Jones on Oct 5, 2011​*Comments:* Why should these mouthy, tattooed, sweat-shirt wearing Angles crawl back from whence they came? So what if they scream racist abuse like fishwives or are led astray into attacking places of worship. These are hard-working harridans who save up their hard-earned pennies to spend at Primani. They deserve a special place in the fashion-world for daring to wear a hoody. Cameron should hug them, not hate them.​



Shouldn't laugh, but I did.​


----------



## krink (Oct 5, 2011)

soz but i just don't get it.


----------



## the brown hand (Oct 5, 2011)

krink said:


> soz but i just don't get it.



They are tattooed oiks in primani chavsuits. A few attacked our anarchist drop in centre in Brighton a few months ago, one was eating doughnuts from a Morrisons paper bag, we do alot of out reach work and were having a coffee morning where more progressive members of the working class and some members from the transgendered community were co operating on a classed based approch to opposing the cuts when we were pelted with eggs and negative vibes/hatred.


----------



## john x (Oct 5, 2011)

the brown hand said:


> They are tattooed oiks in primani chavsuits. A few attacked our anarchist drop in centre in Brighton a few months ago, one was eating doughnuts from a Morrisons paper bag, we do alot of out reach work and were having a coffee morning where more progressive members of the working class and some members from the transgendered community were co operating on a classed based approch to opposing the cuts when we were pelted with eggs and negative vibes/hatred.



Was that the attack led by Lyn Saddington at the Cowley Club in August?

john x


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 5, 2011)

Wow, this thread used to be rampant but has slowed down massively with posts fewer and further between.

Is it a reflection of the current state of the EDL? Are they fizzling out or do people just see them as a joke rather than a threat now?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 5, 2011)

They are dying,

off the top of my head about 10 have been sent down in the past month with a few more to come soon, with Tommy more than likey at the end of the month....

There is a demo in London this weekend, can't see more than 100-200 turning up....


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They are dying,
> 
> off the top of my head about 10 have been sent down in the past month with a few more to come soon, with Tommy more than likey at the end of the month....
> 
> There is a demo in London this weekend, can't see more than 100-200 turning up....


let's not be too premature. i never thought they'd be up to too much at this time of year anyway, we'll have a better idea where they're going after the end of the month with laxley-yennon's court appearance and early next year if they line up another full season of events.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 5, 2011)

the smoke screen when Tommy was found guilty was the Brimingham demo... not 30 mins after it was anounced he was guilty they posted that the next demo is in Brum.... with them all being thick as shit they just got all excited about that instead.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> the smoke screen when Tommy was found guilty was the Brimingham demo... not 30 mins after it was anounced he was guilty they posted that the next demo is in Brum.... with them all being thick as shit they just got all excited about that instead.


like homer simpson and donuts


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 5, 2011)

Mmmmmm racists.....


----------



## BigTom (Oct 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> the smoke screen when Tommy was found guilty was the Brimingham demo... not 30 mins after it was anounced he was guilty they posted that the next demo is in Brum.... with them all being thick as shit they just got all excited about that instead.



I did wonder why they announced a Birmingham demo (aside from the excuse of the terrorism arrests).  I'm not as connected as others with this stuff but I also think they are dying - more concerned about what comes out of NWI/NEI than about the EDL now, though EDL locally seemed to be pretty much killed by the combination of getting the shit kicked out of them back in 2009(? was it 2010, seems longer ago than that) and paedo pricey. They didn't show after the riots, nor the last time they called a demo (iirc was called on the same day as a local football derby so the police said no, and they agreed to call it off), and I don't think they'll show this time.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They are dying,
> 
> off the top of my head about 10 have been sent down in the past month with a few more to come soon, with Tommy more than likey at the end of the month....
> 
> There is a demo in London this weekend, can't see more than 100-200 turning up....


Wheres that at? gonna be a weird weekend for them to attempt anything with the anti-war demo n other stuff on Saturday, n the NHS stuff etc on Sunday... should be heaps of anti-fash about this weekend...


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 6, 2011)

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/edl_leader_slams_academics_report_1_3120577

They dun an idebth study

*EDL leader slams academics’ report*

Cos they dunt know nuffing about the real EDL init...


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 6, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> Wheres that at? gonna be a weird weekend for them to attempt anything with the anti-war demo n other stuff on Saturday, n the NHS stuff etc on Sunday... should be heaps of anti-fash about this weekend...



Erm, Downing street LOL, then marching to Wesminster to show David That the EDL are not sick or something...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm not so sure about the EDL dying out, I'd lay a bet that the lower turnouts at recent demos began when the football season started. I seem to remember a similar drop in numbers last year.

They seem to get a lot of casual (excuse the pun) support from football hooligans when there's no footy on; will they return at the end of May?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Erm, Downing street LOL, then marching to Wesminster to show David That the EDL are not sick or something...


lulz.. hope they have scarpered by 4ish.. is the anti-war crew not swinging by there around that time.... I can think of a good use for the swoppy's placards ;-)


----------



## john x (Oct 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *EDL leader slams academics’ report*





> I’m not going to say that there aren’t any racists in the EDL but we find out who they are and we kick them out.”



Oh really?

Care to name some, Tommy?

john x


----------



## veltins (Oct 6, 2011)

john x said:


> Oh really?
> 
> Care to name some, Tommy?
> 
> john x


 John Kiss, u can start with the 500 or so who will be in Leeds this sat. 170 pages on the edl??? u will be making das uberhund feel all important now!!


----------



## john x (Oct 6, 2011)

veltins said:


> John Kiss, u can start with the 500 or so who will be in Leeds this sat. 170 pages on the edl??? u will be making das uberhund feel all important now!!



I think the nationalists in Leeds absented themselves from the EDL because they weren't 'hardcore' enough.

And by the way, there will be nowhere near 500. Even the organisers reckon they'll be lucky to get 50!



> *Jake Yorks*
> Would 50 be a good turn out?
> LikeUnlike · · 15 hours ago
> 
> ...



from their own facebook page!

John X


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2011)

Tory councilor suspended for edl links? The fact that he's black is going to make for some interesting arguments...bearing in mind the above posts.


----------



## krink (Oct 6, 2011)

veltins said:


> John Kiss, u can start with the 500 or so who will be in Leeds this sat. 170 pages on the edl??? u will be making das uberhund feel all important now!!



so which are you going to veltins? Angels or NWI demo?


----------



## Corax (Oct 6, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Tory councilor suspended for edl links? The fact that he's black is going to make for some interesting arguments...bearing in mind the above posts.


That's going to be interesting...

Maybe he's an islamaphobe, or maybe he was doing what any good representative should do, and finding out about a group that are causing concern first-hand.

I don't know in the slightest, but if it's the latter I hope he's got some evidence to back it up, because otherwise it's an easy win for any of his political enemies.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 6, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Wow, this thread used to be rampant but has slowed down massively with posts fewer and further between.
> 
> Is it a reflection of the current state of the EDL? Are they fizzling out or do people just see them as a joke rather than a threat now?



Nah - just too busy elsewhere to come here to update. Check the twitter stream on the EDL hashtag


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 6, 2011)

Photograph of EDL leader Stephen Lennon at Luton & Beds BNP talk by veteran National Front (ex-BNP, recently rejoined NF) Richard Edmonds: http://twitpic.com/6vmabn


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 6, 2011)

This GEM is from the CXF splinter group from the EDL

http://www.twitpic.com/6w24aw

so yeah....


----------



## john x (Oct 6, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> This GEM is from the CXF splinter group from the EDL
> 
> http://www.twitpic.com/6w24aw
> 
> so yeah....





> The Combined ExForces will be on duty in every town in every part of Britain ready, willing and well fucking able to protect its country's men and women and children every day 24/7 this is a FACT



Well you may think it's a FACT Mr Rafferty but with only a handful of members how in god's name are you going to be on duty when you don't have enough people to cover the major cities, never mind 'every part of Britain'.

If you want to play at being soldiers try this http://www.skirmishuk.com/.

It's a lot safer! ;-)

john x


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 6, 2011)

Is any more known about this Leeds demo? I'm interested to find out more cos the Jarrow March will be in Leeds that day and there's a regional demo. Be good to know in advance if there's any likelihood of "clashes".


----------



## john x (Oct 6, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Is any more known about this Leeds demo?


Here you go



> Details for Saturdays demonstration in Leeds.
> 
> We will be protesting in City Square in Leeds which is a prime location opposite the train station, so anyone coming by car/coach please park somewhere near, there are lots of car parks behind the station.
> There will be no meet up before the demo as this is a political protest not an all day piss up, so please start arriving at the demo site from 120...0 with the demonstration starting at 1300. No one is saying you can't have a drink before but please remember no one listens to a piss head, we are doing this to get our voices heard. So if you feel like getting pissed then please go somewhere else, we are political activists and the issues we are protesting about are serious and not to be taken lightly. We will achieve nothing by acting like drunken thugs and there will be plenty of time after to have a drink and enjoyourselves.



john x


----------



## john x (Oct 6, 2011)

And this,



> *Infidels of Britain* The police have informed us that there will be no barriers and no kettling but obviously there will be plenty of officers about and more on standby, we will have no problem from them as long as we behave in the correct manner. Our behaviour will determine how we are treated at future demonstrations, this is our chance to show people that we are serious about these issues and getting our point across so lets do it right. There will also be a number of stewards please respect them as they are our lads as well. You will be allowed to leave the demonstration in small numbers at any time to use the local facilities.
> The demonstration will finish no later than 1600 when we will disperse and you can either make your way home or come for a drink at a local pub with the rest of us. Please feel free to bring any British flags etc with you.
> Finally I hope you all have a safe day and at the end of it feel proud that we have done it right.
> 
> ...



john x


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheers mate.


----------



## veltins (Oct 7, 2011)

krink said:


> so which are you going to veltins? Angels or NWI demo?



Leeds, i think u will find a far better class of racist there


----------



## john x (Oct 7, 2011)

skitr said:


> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/edlangels/


They've started to edit out all the piss-take signatures now and it has gone down by about 300 signatures. If anyone is bored/drunk follow the link above to make them more work!

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2011)

surprisingly they have taken a lot of nickings and got a lot of jail recently. tommys record doesnt stand him in good stead as he awaits probation reports and if he goes down what then? cant see kocaine kev karol and hel 'hath no fury' goatherd running things too smoothly. the edl believe tommy showed up paxman etc (even tho he comes across as a sweaty, twitchy, angry pub loudmouth) so they wont have a 'spokesman.'  the infidels are the ones to watch if this is the case. their demo today is going to be interesting. it will be a test for how many they can gather. they have liaised with plod too which will annoy some of their 'foot&mouthsoldiers' who dont want another edl. if anyone can post links here as to how many turn up, if it kicks off etc it wd be much appreciated. they sound a bit desperate here:
http://twitpic.com/6wmpgz
the hanging angels thing today will be a damp squib and tbh is hardly worth bothering about. they do look over.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2011)

from edl twitter. infidels already pissed:
http://twitpic.com/6wz5nt
bit of a no show in london:
http://twitpic.com/6wzuz6


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...50578578.14998.106174219415088&type=1&theater

picture of leeds demo or something


----------



## Corax (Oct 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> from edl twitter. infidels already pissed:
> http://twitpic.com/6wz5nt


I like the NWI chant.  I can see tempers rising at the Northampton Women's Institute.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 8, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...50578578.14998.106174219415088&type=1&theater
> 
> picture of leeds demo or something



Do you think they will include NWI umbrellas in their merchandise?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2011)

brilliant! piss poor turnout for the infidels:
http://twitpic.com/6x0x05
piss poor edl turnout.
http://twitpic.com/6x23hg
wankers.


----------



## john x (Oct 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> their demo today is going to be interesting. it will be a test for how many they can gather. they have liaised with plod too which will annoy some of their 'foot&mouthsoldiers' who dont want another edl. *if anyone can post links here* as to how many turn up, if it kicks off etc it wd be much appreciated.



Can't post a link but just spoken to my mate in Leeds and she says that between 40 and 60 NWI turned up, of which about a quarter to a third were SDL down from Glasgow. Six or seven were wearing EDL Division hoodies (she couldn't see which division as the badges on the front were too small) although they were expressly told to stay away.

Speeches started but were virtually inaudible due a piss poor sound system which apparently had been donated to them to be 'fixed'. No sign of any antis and probably no more than 10-15 cops on foot with more in vans round the corner. At one point somebody shouted something from across the street and two-thirds of the crowd broke ranks and ran towards the road shouting. The poor bloke doing the speech shouted that they needed to come back and listen to the speeches and not break ranks, but they ignored him shouting 'Allah is a paedo' at whoever it was who had walked by. At least one NWI arrested in that incident. She said that about 6 cops and two horses kept 30-odd from getting into the road and they didn't really seem that 'up for it'.

She came back an hour later after doing her shopping and said there were about 15-20 still in the square, singing Land of Hope and Glory. She said that it seemed like it was coming from one of their iPods as the track kept stopping and jumping to other 'techno' tracks. A proper comedy moment enjoyed by the handful of shoppers passing by. That was about 3.00pm. and she went home then. She said the has no idea what happened after that and what time they dispersed but when she left them they were looking very wet and dejected. She tried to take some photos but was threatened by a couple of the Scots contingent and the cops told her to 'move on love before this lot get really nasty'.

Doesn't strike me as the great 'unstoppable resurgence of European nationalism' that one of their lot Sandra Smith, kept telling everyone last week.

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2011)

latest malatesta report on EDL & Infidels washouts today!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## john x (Oct 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> latest malatesta report on EDL & Infidels washouts today!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/



All good, except Plod did not put them in a kettle as can be seen from the photographs of the demo.

john x


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> latest malatesta report on EDL & Infidels washouts today!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/



Superb content as usual. A few typos and formatting things that could use attention. i don't give a crap but some people do. Thanks a lot. Keep up the good work.


----------



## albionism (Oct 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> brilliant! piss poor turnout for the infidels:
> http://twitpic.com/6x0x05
> piss poor edl turnout.
> http://twitpic.com/6x23hg
> wankers.


Seems they were shit scared of a bit of good old British rain.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 9, 2011)

handsome geezers in leeds!
http://bacphotography.photoshelter.com/gallery/EDL-ANTI-RACISTS/G0000HKe9E8_i6yk/
just about sums the day up
http://bacphotography.photoshelter....NTI-RACISTS/G0000HKe9E8_i6yk/I0000gvLXCvMDO2c


----------



## albionism (Oct 9, 2011)

Mine was this big!


yeah?, well mine was this big!


Oh yeah, well mine was this fucking big!


----------



## krink (Oct 9, 2011)

they are all NF from newcastle as far as I can tell. were they taken in leeds?


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 9, 2011)

krink said:


> they are all NF from newcastle as far as I can tell. were they taken in leeds?



Talking about the NF, I am copying this over for anyone that missed it on the other thread....



claphamboy said:


> OMFG, I can't believe even the knuckle-draggers from the National Front could take Peter Dow serious enough to picket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 9, 2011)

so basically a glorious failure by the defenders of England then so?


----------



## john x (Oct 9, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> so basically a glorious failure by the defenders of England then so?


Two major mobilisations from the 2nd and 3rd biggest far-right organisations in the UK, and between them they can only muster about 100 people.

Pretty crap! And THEY know it too. If you check out their websites and facebook groups they aren't bigging it up and exaggerating as usual, they're just being incredibly quiet!

john x


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 9, 2011)

Didn't even know EDL had been in Leeds yesterday til I was stood in the station around 5 and some pissed up twat came up to me and said "we're EDL, we're killers" then staggered away. Seemed like quite a bright chappy


----------



## john x (Oct 9, 2011)

CyberRose said:


> Didn't even know EDL had been in Leeds yesterday til I was stood in the station around 5 and some pissed up twat came up to me and said "we're EDL, we're killers" then staggered away. Seemed like quite a bright chappy



It was the North West Infidels and some Scottish Defence League.

john x


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 9, 2011)

EDL member and paedophile, Brett Moses from Hull. Here's a bit more about him: http://t.co/awILQgn



> He was stopped by Canadian police following concerns by the parents of one of the girl's friends.
> Moses, a security guard in Hull, has now been given a 12-month prison sentence, suspended for two years, after earlier pleading guilty to sexual grooming.
> Hull Crown Court heard that he first started speaking to the girl, who cannot be named for legal reasons, on an Internet chat room in 2004.
> He claimed to be a 13-year-old called John Smith and initially spoke to the girl's father.
> It was him who introduced Moses to his daughter, having heard claims of "John" being beaten and abused by a foster father.


----------



## CyberRose (Oct 9, 2011)

john x said:


> It was the North West Infidels and some Scottish Defence League.
> 
> john x


I'm trying to place the accent (which usually I'm pretty good at) but the slurring words didn't help. Maybe it was West Midlands? Either way he definitely said EDL so if it was a NWI/SDL maybe they still have some overlap?


----------



## john x (Oct 9, 2011)

CyberRose said:


> I'm trying to place the accent (which usually I'm pretty good at) but the slurring words didn't help. Maybe it was West Midlands? Either way he definitely said EDL so if it was a NWI/SDL maybe they still have some overlap?


EDL were warned to stay away but I'm sure some would have been there. The split between the EDL and Infidels is very regional and is mainly based on who has fallen out with who, and who thinks who has grassed them up rather than politics.

john x


----------



## Fingers (Oct 9, 2011)

Joey Barton joins the EDL. Is this another Katie Price fiasco?

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-claim-they-gave-recruited-joey-barton


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 9, 2011)

surely Joey is far too intelligent for the EDL?

looks like Yaxley-Lennon just managed to get his photo taken with JB. They're clutching at straws for publicity now.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

> News that Barton is allegedly supporting the EDL's anti Muslim stance will directly confict with this.


Come the fuck on.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

Barton hasn't looked like that in a while either has he?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

Why bung in his half brothers actions as well. This is pathetic.


----------



## grogwilton (Oct 9, 2011)

Are QPR still sponsored by a middle eastern airline?


----------



## Next2China (Oct 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Talking about the NF, I am copying this over for anyone that missed it on the other thread....


What other thred? would love a looksie.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 9, 2011)

veltins said:


> Leeds, i think u will find a far better class of racist there



I was in Leeds this weekend and had a mooch in Yates's - after being given the heads up from the Trots - where Britain's finest defenders were busily getting pissed up. It was a predictable rag tag of hooligans and misfits and nowhere near the 500 head count that you appear to be fantasising about. Easily fifty mind. Assuming that everyone present was an 'infidel' and not just some rough nuts on the piss, not giving a shit for the cause but looking the part. Difficult to tell one hoolie from another really.


----------



## albionism (Oct 9, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> View attachment 13918
> EDL member and paedophile, Brett Moses from Hull. Here's a bit more about him: http://t.co/awILQgn


They do seem to have a disproportionate amount of child sex offenders in their ranks.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 9, 2011)

Only in the EDL Grooming Division.


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 10, 2011)

albionism said:


> Now......



Aaaahhh Simon Biggs. former BNP/C18/B&H bonehead....


----------



## albionism (Oct 10, 2011)

Yeah, the twat that used to have the Skrewdriver tattoo on his forehead.


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 10, 2011)

albionism said:


> Yeah, the twat that used to have the Skrewdriver tattoo on his forehead.
> 
> View attachment 13932



That's him... Now the NE organiser for the NF.


----------



## albionism (Oct 10, 2011)

I take it it doesn't require too much
acumen to be a regional organiser of the NF.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 10, 2011)

albionism said:


> Yeah, the twat that used to have the Skrewdriver tattoo on his forehead.
> 
> View attachment 13932



It's even easier than being an RO for the EDL. You don't have to pretend not to be nazi despite being one. I'm not sure if there is the same rate of paedophilia convictions in the NF though.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 10, 2011)

the NF have undergone a few cosmetic changes recently. eddie morrison left under the usual cloud of suspicion an acrimony and richard edmonds joined up fleeing the BNP. it is assumed that other BNPers will join up given the nature of recent enquiries!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 10, 2011)

john x said:


> It was the North West Infidels and some Scottish Defence League.
> 
> john x



The bloke was EDL, cos he said he was.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 10, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> the NF have undergone a few cosmetic changes recently. eddie morrison left under the usual cloud of suspicion an acrimony and richard edmonds joined up fleeing the BNP. it is assumed that other BNPers will join up given the nature of recent enquiries!


Yep. Looks like it. Wonder how many will flee to the Fluffy Fash tho (British Freedom) - they were at the recent transatlantic counterhijab europa meet in London organised by Gaffney/Brim/Knowles's CVF (ICLA). Although Front Nationale doesn't seem to put Brim off from getting invovled.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 10, 2011)

from edl news, quote of the day on downing st.
Farnes Barnes: "just got home from this demo & how awful it was. What is it with the EDL & alcoholics everybody was pissed by 10.30am. I have meet Tommy & Kevin, Kevin said EDL need to reachout 2 middle England sorry mate but middle England arn't coming anywhere nerar this not why EDL r just a bunch of pissed up alocoholics. The number 1 issue 4 the EDL now must b2 try & get rid of the alcoholism I would say drinking but its far passed that & definitely a alcoholic problem Got 2 stand up & say my name is the EDL & i'm an alcoholic

the poster also sounds like strong drink hath been taken. what is an 'alocoholic?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 10, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Yep. Looks like it. Wonder how many will flee to the Fluffy Fash tho (British Freedom) - they were at the recent transatlantic counterhijab europa meet in London organised by Gaffney/Brim/Knowles's CVF (ICLA). Although Front Nationale doesn't seem to put Brim off from getting invovled.



planning an aritcle on fluffies, nf, epp, england first etc to try and identify what, if any, are their differences apart from the usual fash desire to be 'leader' and dish out little titles to their acolytes.


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 10, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> handsome geezers in leeds!
> http://bacphotography.photoshelter.com/gallery/EDL-ANTI-RACISTS/G0000HKe9E8_i6yk/
> just about sums the day up
> http://bacphotography.photoshelter....NTI-RACISTS/G0000HKe9E8_i6yk/I0000gvLXCvMDO2c


Jeeze they really attract some fucking beauts


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 10, 2011)

Barton has publicly denied the above stuff about joining the EDL.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 10, 2011)

Dunno if there was a claim that he had "joined", although the EDL consider clicking "like" on FB qualifies someone as a member.

They just blagged a photo with JB, that's it. He probably had no idea what was going on. Glad he's gone public and made them look that bit more stupid, desperate and opportunist. Not that they will give a shit. After each disaster they just carry on blithley as if nothing is wrong.

Any link for that Butchers?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 10, 2011)

No worries Butch. Found one.

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/joey-barton-denies-far-right-links


----------



## BigTom (Oct 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Barton has publicly denied the above stuff about joining the EDL.



He's just said this on twitter:



> Can I just state, that should any person, ask me for a photograph when I'm in public, that I am not aware of their religious, political or
> 
> personal beliefs or affiliations. If I smile and oblige their request, I do so for no other reason, than they've asked politely and
> 
> ...



 mentally deficient right wing numpties.. I bet none of that makes its way onto EDL places, at least not by actual edl members


----------



## Next2China (Oct 10, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> from edl news, quote of the day on downing st.
> Farnes Barnes: "just got home from this demo & how awful it was. What is it with the EDL & alcoholics everybody was pissed by 10.30am. I have meet Tommy & Kevin, Kevin said EDL need to reachout 2 middle England sorry mate but middle England arn't coming anywhere nerar this not why EDL r just a bunch of pissed up alocoholics. The number 1 issue 4 the EDL now must b2 try & get rid of the alcoholism I would say drinking but its far passed that & definitely a alcoholic problem Got 2 stand up & say my name is the EDL & i'm an alcoholic
> 
> the poster also sounds like strong drink hath been taken. what is an 'alocoholic?


It is a misspelling of "Alcoholic".


----------



## Fingers (Oct 10, 2011)

Good work Joey, my respect has gone up a bit! Twitter quote of the day!


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 10, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm not so sure about the EDL dying out, I'd lay a bet that the lower turnouts at recent demos began when the football season started. I seem to remember a similar drop in numbers last year.
> 
> They seem to get a lot of casual (excuse the pun) support from football hooligans when there's no footy on; will they return at the end of May?



Sunderlands season looks like it will be over by Xmas so there may be a small boost in numbers


----------



## krink (Oct 11, 2011)

Give it time, give it time.
we haven't got an edl division anyway.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 11, 2011)

krink said:


> Give it time, give it time.
> we haven't got an edl division anyway.


Fot the past three years I have bet on a match by match basis on Sunderland and by November choose someone else, it may be that their dismal performance is the most effective antidote to fascism ever discovered.


----------



## krink (Oct 11, 2011)

Now that is the best excuse I've ever heard and one I will be using forthwith to excuse my team's terrible performances - we are bad on purpose as it keeps the fash down. Nice one! Sunderland are now the most antifa team ever and I expect youngsters across europe to adopt sunderland.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2011)

stick to the thread you soccer obsessed scallywags!


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 11, 2011)

krink said:


> Give it time, give it time.
> we haven't got an edl division anyway.



Seaham have though iirc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2011)

don't make me come up there ^


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 11, 2011)

Probably isn't many Muslamics living in Seaham. So fortunately they have to do the legwork.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 11, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> stick to the thread you soccer obsessed scallywags!



It's called football.

I always wondered if the edl mackem element would remain unmolested (parden the pun) at Newcastle based edl events, or if football rivalries would prevail.


----------



## krink (Oct 11, 2011)

from what i have heard, the only time sunderland lads went to newcastle for an edl demo was in may 2010 for the one that had about 1000 people on it. I heard nothing happened between the two factions but having said that, i have heard very little about sunderland's real hooligans being involved at all in edl and I've only seen some pictures of newcastle gremlin and nme 'veterans' on edl videos on youtube. I've never heard anything concrete about either team's hooligans being involved. Mind, I'm not really any kind of authority on the local hooligan scene and this is all just from internet/pub chatter.

on the subject of football hooligans, i know there are fuck-loads of wannabe hooligans in edl wearing their snide stone island clobber (which actual hooligans no longer wear as it has been bastardised by the wannabes) but I'm not sure exactly how many actual hooligans are involved as the ones I used to know years ago would have seen edl as a bunch of tramps to be avoided (even if many shared their views). it's often said edl is hooligans/ex-hooligans but I'd be interested in any hard evidence (other than Lennon's MIG link).

BTW didn't get the pun?? molested? are you thinking of Middlesbrough?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> Jeeze they really attract some fucking beauts



you think thats bad. check these beauties out!
http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2011/10/edls-brains-trust-and-page-3.html


----------



## Corax (Oct 11, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> you think thats bad. check these beauties out!
> http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2011/10/edls-brains-trust-and-page-3.html


_*fap*_


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## sunnysidedown (Oct 11, 2011)

krink said:


> from what i have heard, the only time sunderland lads went to newcastle for an edl demo was in may 2010 for the one that had about 1000 people on it. I heard nothing happened between the two factions but having said that, i have heard very little about sunderland's real hooligans being involved at all in edl and I've only seen some pictures of newcastle gremlin and nme 'veterans' on edl videos on youtube. I've never heard anything concrete about either team's hooligans being involved. Mind, I'm not really any kind of authority on the local hooligan scene and this is all just from internet/pub chatter.
> 
> on the subject of football hooligans, i know there are fuck-loads of wannabe hooligans in edl wearing their snide stone island clobber (which actual hooligans no longer wear as it has been bastardised by the wannabes) but I'm not sure exactly how many actual hooligans are involved as the ones I used to know years ago would have seen edl as a bunch of tramps to be avoided (even if many shared their views). it's often said edl is hooligans/ex-hooligans but I'd be interested in any hard evidence (other than Lennon's MIG link).
> 
> BTW didn't get the pun?? molested? are you thinking of Middlesbrough?



Nah, the molested pun was regarding the edl in general and their history of attracting nonces. Although I wouldn't be surprised if a boro 'nappy ripper' division existed.

Agree with the rest of your points, I know from past talk with people that should know about these things that the original NME kicked the NF out of Newcastle in the mid eighties when they turned up for a march, and they used to have a couple of black lads with them on away trips. No idea about the gremlins lot, from experiencing a few of them singing in Luckies many years ago sympathy for racist organisations wouldn't be a surprise.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2011)

'The Infidels of Britain are holding a Nationalist Demonstration in North East England on Saturday 12th November 2011. '

apparently.


----------



## john x (Oct 11, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> 'The Infidels of Britain are holding a Nationalist Demonstration in North East England on Saturday 12th November 2011. '
> 
> apparently.


Last I'd heard it had been cancelled.

john x


----------



## krink (Oct 11, 2011)

you sure john? it's still on all their facebook pages. maybe you're thinking about the one in newcastle on 29th october that was called by edl? i think that got cancelled cos they're doing Brum now.


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## john x (Oct 11, 2011)

krink said:


> you sure john? it's still on all their facebook pages. maybe you're thinking about the one in newcastle on 29th october that was called by edl? i think that got cancelled cos they're doing Brum now.



Could be.

Why don't these bloody people just have one big demo, rather than silly little pissy ones all over the place?

john x


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## albionism (Oct 11, 2011)

no surrder!


----------



## Fingers (Oct 12, 2011)

Celebrity paedo, Richard Price has issued a statement (see comments at the bottom)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/featured/the-edl-and-paedophiles


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Celebrity paedo, Richard Price has issued a statement (see comments at the bottom)
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/featured/the-edl-and-paedophiles



does that not breach his probation... accessing a computer? or has that expired now?


----------



## laptop (Oct 12, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> does that not breach his probation... accessing a computer? or has that expired now?






			
				The Times said:
			
		

> had been convicted in June 2010 of making four indecent images of children, and possessing cocaine and crack cocaine...
> 
> He was banned from owning a computer for a year, given a three-year community supervision order and ordered to sign on to the sex offenders register for five years.



So _on the basis of that report_ he's been able to own a computer since some time in June 2011...

ETA:


----------



## Fingers (Oct 12, 2011)

So in the space of a couple of days they have been dissed by a convicted Uncle Fester and Joey Barton

They are not going to like the Metro this morning

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/oddbal...ams-edl-after-he-is-accused-of-being-a-member


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 12, 2011)

laptop said:


> So _on the basis of that report_ he's been able to own a computer since some time in June 2011...
> 
> ETA:



So he's had like 4 months to say that then.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2011)

john x said:


> Could be.
> 
> Why don't these bloody people just have one big demo, rather than silly little pissy ones all over the place?
> 
> john x


 
I think it could be because when to many gather in one place and strong drink is taken the urge to fight each other becomes too much.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 12, 2011)

I also love the fact with the EDL that, EVERYTHING ever said about the EDL in the press is lies.,... EVERYTHING made up about Muslims is TRUFAX.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 12, 2011)

the same reason that every far-right attempt at "unity" ends up in a punch up and some stupid injuries


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Oct 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> the same reason that every far-right attempt at "unity" ends up in a punch up and some stupid injuries



Add to this the inevitable goosestepping handbags, with various parties accusing each other of being "state"/M15/Searchlight/SWP/paedos/alcoholics etc etc

Not even the patrotic porky products of the Welshpool farmer can unite them.


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## frogwoman (Oct 12, 2011)

one people, one cause, one sausage


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## MellySingsDoom (Oct 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> one people, one cause, one sausage



Dont' forget the bacon - this is what the EDL demand we should all eat as "patriots":


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## Ranbay (Oct 12, 2011)

Good Allah im hungry looking at that.....


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## frogwoman (Oct 12, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Dont' forget the bacon - this is what the EDL demand we should all eat as "patriots":



No vegetables in Valhalla.


----------



## krink (Oct 12, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> No vegetables in Valhalla.


 
wasn't that a Skrewdriver album?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2011)

That's a funny-looking nun.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 12, 2011)

The Cold War on British Muslims:An examination of Policy Exchange and the Centre for Social Cohesion:http://scr.bi/o7e15s 

As reported by Barthsnotes in 2010, 


> At the _Guardian_, Andrew Brown takes a look at some *Robert Spencer* and Pamela Geller’s European links, noting the views of Anders Gravers of Stop Islamisation of Europe, Geller’s support for the *English Defence League*, and Spencer’s association with *Douglas Murray*. Last year’s [2009] dinner fiasco is raised:
> 
> *Spencer was invited to supper by Murray of the Centre for Social Cohesion* when he visited England last autumn, only for the evening to break up before it had even started when a bunch of EDL skinheads turned up at the restaurant, invited along by a supporter of Spencer who was making a video about him and had been interviewing them, too. The difference between the EDL and the various “Stop Islamisation of [your country here]” on the one hand, and the Centre for Social Cohesion on the other, while obvious to Murray, does not seem to have occurred to the American videomaker.​
> This was an incident I blogged on at the time. (The videomaker was Martin Mawyer, an anti-gay Christian fundamentalist. Spencer and Geller maintained that Mawyer’s views on homosexuality were his own affair, although they changed their minds and acted shocked when his views reached Dutch media and embarrassed Geert Wilders.)


 http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/andrew-brown-notes-robert-spencers-uk-supporters/


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 12, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Dont' forget the bacon - this is what the EDL demand we should all eat as "patriots":


That looks disgusting. What is it?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 12, 2011)

fried chicken, Bacon, Cheese, more fried chicken.

no bun ..... Mmmmmmmm


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## Gingerman (Oct 12, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Dont' forget the bacon - this is what the EDL demand we should all eat as "patriots":


Non-Halal obviously cause apparently eating Halal turns you Muslim


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 12, 2011)

Pringles are Halal..... OMFG !!!!

£20 says each and every one of them thick EDL cunts has a kebab or a Curry on the weekend...... In fact there was a photo on facebook of the state they left a coach in after a demo, and it was litterd with KFC boxes.....


----------



## Fingers (Oct 13, 2011)

Some quality infighting  http://www.facebook.com/notes/tod-england/why-i-have-left-the-edl/302454406438315


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 13, 2011)

fb link requiring login...


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 13, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> fb link requiring login...



The message is from "Todd England" - a quick scoot around indicates, unsurpisingly, that this is not his real name.

It readeth thus:



After a long night of thinking I have decided to leave the EDL. I support what the EDL stand for but no longer share the same views. After a year of running around sorting things out been on police bail ,court, harrasment arguing and the rest. Also people bitching about others and they are so quick to jump on the band wagon to call people that are my friends' Nazis just for some apropriate picture... without questioning it and caling for them to be banned' WTF is it only me or are some Admins turning into the UAF?

Im not sorry I do not support Isreal' and Jews' modderate muslims' the fucking lot! so if anyone wants to delete and block me go for it i dont give a fuck..

I am English I support English and English people only with a few scousers thrown in and Scots lol but realy' Fuck it enough is enough and a lot of people are on some fucking power trip here thinking they are bigger and better than the foot soldiers. No one is higher bigger better than anyone from the footsoldiers that are the real EDL to the RO's up to Tommy and Kevin and co' we are all working class people that are proud of our country and want to keep it as it is.

I am against all muslims as I can see what is happening in the western world and how they are planning to take over our countries you only have to search for muslim demographics in youtube to see what's happening, it's not rocket science! The Netherlands and France are worst and only a few years before them countries will be declared a Muslim state, They are on the verge of civil war do we want this for our country for our kids and grand kids for their grandkids? Do we fuck!! they can all fuck off the fucking lot of em. Islam is taking over our country slowly but surely and because they are getting their claws into our Goverment they will be no stopping them. The EDL can demontrate till they are blue in the face that will not achive anything and tbh most people i know around the country only go for a day out, meet friends have a sing song and piss up and hope the Paki's start so we can kick there fucking heads in.... I still support what the EDL stand for and support many of the friends i have met .. some realy great people that have the same opinions as me but no longer share the same views as the EDL. In the past year The EDL has changed not me! have a great day everyone Rule Britania GSTQ


----------



## elfman (Oct 13, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> you only have to search for muslim demographics in youtube to see what's happening, it's not rocket science!



Everything on YouTube is trufax. I created a video the other day and everything on it was trufax even though I just made it all up.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> the same reason that every far-right attempt at "unity" ends up in a punch up and some stupid injuries



id rather thave a salt beef on rye myself! anyway, the calls for unity are usually made out of exasperation when yet another split occurs. they always suffer from too many leaders and not enough willing eejits. the very nature of fascism is insane. they genuinely think hitler was ok, the holocaust, if it happened - which it didnt! FACT! - is a footnote and that it is absolutely fine to condone genocide. they are isolated because their views are abhorrent to the vast majority of people. they are by nature paranoid and delusional so the accusations regularly fly. they are social inadequates and it is a common occurence that pedophiles, sex offenders, drug dealers and violent criminals join the bnp, nf etc, the parties of law and order. no one else will have em! do we like them?
'Do we fuck!! they can all fuck off the fucking lot of em' 
to quote the above.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2011)

and they wonder why folk think they are a bunch of pissed up hooligans?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXWrWP4bPSI&feature=player_embedded
jeezus!


----------



## albionism (Oct 13, 2011)

Muppets of the highest magnitude.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 13, 2011)

CSP Counterjihad Europa project ICLA/EDL reports that "Friend of *EDL*", convicted Austrian Islamophobe Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, was inducted into "chivalric order" (The Knights Hospitallers of the Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, Knights of Malta - The Ecumenical Order") by "Pentagon Holy Warrior" and "Grand Chancellor" ex-General William 'Jerry' Boykin http://bit.ly/or5GqC (from Barthsnotes)


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2011)

john x said:


> Last I'd heard it had been cancelled.
> john x



john x, EDL in brum 29th apparently the last big un of the year. so that shd be quite small then.
newcastle anti-islamaphobia do in newcastle 29th and i think the NEI are intending to make a wee show. Infidels also promising a do in north east on 12/11 somewhere. NF will no doubt attempt to assemble its dosshouse dwellers, off licence window shoppers and y front strumming perverts for something on remembrance day. if they can actualy remember!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2011)

_from VNN:_
_'I've heard of co-operation between the North East Infidels and NF, and there are VNN members who support the Infidels and vote BNP.'_
'The lad who runs the North East NF is old school, a good solid bloke.'
is this the handsome devil?
http://bacphotography.photoshelter....NTI-RACISTS/G0000HKe9E8_i6yk/I0000j6yHYl2gSW8


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 13, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> _from VNN:_
> _'I've heard of co-operation between the North East Infidels and NF, and there are VNN members who support the Infidels and vote BNP.'_
> 'The lad who runs the North East NF is old school, a good solid bloke.'
> is this the handsome devil?
> http://bacphotography.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/EDL-ANTI-RACISTS/G0000HKe9E8_i6yk/I0000j6yHYl2gSW8



I thought he was Sontaran EDL division?


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## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2011)

is that pizza the hut?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 13, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> I thought he was Sontaran EDL division?
> 
> View attachment 14009
> View attachment 14008


but without the sontarans' good looks, ready wit and charm


----------



## Fingers (Oct 13, 2011)

That is simon Biggs isn't it?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 13, 2011)

Yes, apparently so. See David Hoffman Gallery for a 30 year archive photos of NF and other assorted racists and fascists.

http://hoffman.photoshelter.com/gallery/G0000knK1Ye2FVqM


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> £20 says each and every one of them thick EDL cunts has a kebab or a Curry on the weekend......



As seen in the BNP section of the British Democracy Forums...


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 13, 2011)

the eejits still planning on coming to Brum in a few weeks?


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## BigTom (Oct 13, 2011)

as far as we know, yes.
I still expect them not to show.
UAF counter demo meeting point is by Waterstones/Bull Ring, at 12 I think.. I can't find their facebook event, I can find the Islamic Resistance one:

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=196295973715351

Which just says city centre for obvious reasons..


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 13, 2011)

2007 - Interview with Aeneas Lavinium (aka Chris Knowles) of Center for Vigilant Freedom (now called International Civil Liberties Alliance) - a project of Frank Gaffney's Center for Security Policy. Christine Brim runs CVF/ICLA in the US/non-EU and Chris Knowles runs the CVF/ICLA EU countries. Aeneas has been instrumental in providing the storehouse of media & visuals which feeds and supports the EDL, and arranged for the EDL to visit Berlin, Amsterdam, liaison with Bloc Identitaire. He has also spoken about the astrotufing of the EDL at CVF Counterjihad Europa conferences. The CVF (ICLA) continue to support the EDL and have been outreaching to BNP/BNP reform, UKIP and British Freedom.

This radio interview is very telling  - discusses fomenting of Paris-style riots in Britain on the street by inflammatory anti-Muslim acts.

Part one: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6f2_13185174262007


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## john x (Oct 14, 2011)

The partner of one of the Durham 2, Steven Vesey has not exactly helped her bloke's appeal. lol

http://www.twitpic.com/6zvgvn/full

john x


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## Paulie Tandoori (Oct 14, 2011)

john x said:


> The partner of one of the Durham 2, Stuart Vesey has not exactly helped her bloke's appeal. lol
> 
> http://www.twitpic.com/6zvgvn/full
> 
> john x


it's like the idiot-factor, not the x-factor.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Oct 14, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Yes, apparently so. See David Hoffman Gallery for a 30 year archive photos of NF and other assorted racists and fascists.
> 
> http://hoffman.photoshelter.com/gallery/G0000knK1Ye2FVqM


so you approve of redwatch then?


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 14, 2011)

Fingers said:


> That is simon Biggs isn't it?


Mathew Collins tells a very interesting story about Biggs and the BNP canvassing when Beacon was elected. He described Biggs as a homeless alcoholic who was put in a suit and sent canvassing. Precisely because no other parties canvassed the same area Biggs was virtually welcomed with open arms by some residents who simply had no contact with any other political party.


----------



## audiotech (Oct 14, 2011)

Looks like Whatmough ("100 percent white", "final conflict" t-shirt) amongst that lot, or as he used to be referred to as the "iron bar kid" in certain circles. Didn't help him any.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 15, 2011)

Poor old Tommy had his appeal heard today and the judge told him to fuck right off.

He is looking at
150 hours community service
1 year supervision order
3 year footy banning order

That is not all of his woes, he is due for sentence before Preston crown court in a couple of weeks for nutting the ex soldier geezer who was a case of mistaken identity when it all kicked off and they were all that coked up no one knew what the fuck was going on.

The smart money is that Tommy will fall victim to the 'two tier' system where EDL members act like cunts, get racist and get banged up and Ahmed from the Stella shop doesn't act like a cunt and doesn't get banged up.

12-18 months i reckon.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 15, 2011)

we can but hope


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Oct 15, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Looks like Whatmough ("100 percent white", "final conflict" t-shirt) amongst that lot, or as he used to be referred to as the "iron bar kid" in certain circles. Didn't help him any.



Yeah, that's definitely Gluebag himself.  Wonder if he's still touting his fellow "nationalists" to Plod, in return for them turning a blind eye to his low-level drug dealing activities?  And is he really repsonsble for the "return" of Redwatch, or would that be (as I suspect) under the auspices of Simon "thank heavens for underage girls" Sheppard?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 15, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> so you approve of redwatch then?


I link to a well-known, well-respected, longtime social issues photographer, you think somehow this is equivalent to condoning Redwatch?
Does Hoffman publish protestors' addresses (regardless of political stance) and openly encourage violence against them? Does he fuck


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 15, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> we can but hope


Could Brum be Tommy's Last Stand?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 15, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> so you approve of redwatch then?


has someone else used your login to make you look daft? i think we should be told.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 15, 2011)

gawkrodger said:


> the eejits still planning on coming to Brum in a few weeks?



rodger:
'EDL in brum 29th apparently the last big un of the year. so that shd be quite small then.
newcastle anti-islamaphobia do in newcastle 29th and i think the NEI are intending to make a wee show. Infidels also promising a do in north east on 12/11 somewhere. NF will no doubt attempt to assemble its dosshouse dwellers, off licence window shoppers and y front strumming perverts for something on remembrance day. if they can actually remember!'


----------



## Corax (Oct 15, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> I link to a well-known, well-respected, longtime social issues photographer, you think somehow this is equivalent to condoning Redwatch?
> Does Hoffman publish protestors' addresses (regardless of political stance) and openly encourage violence against them? Does he fuck


Yeah but apart from the differences it's exactly the same.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 15, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> rodger:
> 'EDL in brum 29th apparently the last big un of the year. so that shd be quite small then.
> newcastle anti-islamaphobia do in newcastle 29th and i think the NEI are intending to make a wee show. Infidels also promising a do in north east on 12/11 somewhere. NF will no doubt attempt to assemble its dosshouse dwellers, off licence window shoppers and y front strumming perverts for something on remembrance day. if they can actually remember!'


The Occupy! Movement has pissed all over EDL. In less than one month, Occupy! has not only become more popular than the 2.5 year-old Tea Party, it's also GONE GLOBAL, pulling millions of ordinary yet extraordinarily annoyed citizens out onto the streets.


----------



## Corax (Oct 15, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> The Occupy! Movement has pissed all over EDL. In less than one month, Occupy! has not only become more popular than the 2.5 year-old Tea Party, it's also GONE GLOBAL, pulling millions of ordinary yet extraordinarily annoyed citizens out onto the streets.


Two tier system innit.


----------



## cantsin (Oct 15, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> so you approve of redwatch then?



whaaaat ?


----------



## cantsin (Oct 15, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Yes, apparently so. See David Hoffman Gallery for a 30 year archive photos of NF and other assorted racists and fascists.
> 
> http://hoffman.photoshelter.com/gallery/G0000knK1Ye2FVqM



that image of Joe Pearce behind Chubby H,( early 80's Chelsea NF photo ,) has always caught my eye, with the wedge and black polo neck, surrounded by skins, at the front/in the middle of of it all, but very much separate at the same time.

not that surprised that he drifted off into wierdy catholic pseudo-intellectual shit, even if it is a long way from Bulldog on the surface - looking alright for his age mind you....

http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/authors/josephpearce.asp


----------



## john x (Oct 16, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They are dying,
> 
> off the top of my head about 10 have been sent down in the past month with a few more to come soon, with Tommy more than likey at the end of the month....
> 
> There is a demo in London this weekend, can't see more than 100-200 turning up....


Less than 100 turned up!

If you look at what is going on behind the scenes in the EDL, all is not well. In the north they are haemorraging individual members, and in some cases whole divisions to the NWI. Most of the Scottish Defence League is completely tied to Ulster Loyalism so includes a number of proper old-school nazis. So while they pay lip service to supporting the EDL, they mobilise more people to Infidels 'activities'. Also within the SDL there are Scottish 'nationalists' who are seen as traitors by the Loyalist element who see anything which threatens the union or the crown as beyond the pale (if you pardon the expression!) There are individuals within the SDL who would probably kill each other if they actually met in real life. Their facebook pages are full of threats of violence to each other and much discussion of Celtic v Rangers. There are growing elements in the EDL who want to push the SDL to choose one way or another. This has been precipitated by certain members of both the SDL and NWI publically slagging off Tommy Robinson.

The piss-poor attendance at recent rallies has started to expose divisions between the 'multicultural pro-Zionist' EDL and the old school nazis. The fascist element have toed the 'non racist' line as a means to attracting greater numbers to the organisation (in an almost identical way to their counterparts in the BNP who were promised electoral success if they kept their more overt racism under wraps). But as with the BNP, when that goal hasn't been achieved, a lot of the those told to keep quiet are now seeking more freedom both within the EDL or outside with the Infidels. The Oxford Division have now said they will not march with the EDL after they publically slagged off one of their members for giving a nazi salute. When the EDL were warned off last weeks 'Nationalist' demonstration in Leeds, one of the first responses from a 'wavering' EDL supporter was "Good! At least that means we won't have to march with any fucking Jews!" The Brevik massacre has also helped this split with the less politically aware supporters genuinely shocked to learn of his links with the EDL and even more surprised to hear others openly praising him and what he had done.

The other factor in this, is the growth of the far-right in Europe at the moment. Those who have learned to hide their fascism and nazism of late are relishing jumping on that bandwagon. Last Saturday in Leeds proved that this may be a little premature in the UK!

Meanwhile at EDL Towers the coterie of Tommy fans are engaging in ever more public disagreement. Hel Gower (ex-BNP and C18 groupie) and Roberta Moore will literally come to blows before too long and usually spend hours at each rally just glowering at each other, then slagging one another off on facebook. I think that battle will be resolved once Tommy goes to jail next month. If Moore loses, she will take the EDL name with her as well as a sizeable amount of the cash. A lot of these people really do believe their own publicity and some, like 'Angle' Donna Mortimer, are seriously considering what they shall say when they are invited to appear on Question Time which she sees as both inevitable and imminent.

Unfortunately for them, the more politically 'savvy' supporters are those who came from other far-right organisations like the NF and BNP. With these people going, the EDL is being left in the hands of the less politically experienced supporters who treat the EDL like one big social group many of whom spend a lot of time chatting and posting on facebook but will not do anything out of their own immediate area. These are the people who have provided cannon fodder and some have ended up being arrested, charged and eventually sent to jail. (Danny Parker, Durham 2 etc.) They read about things that they don't really understand, get all wound up and angry, then get pissed up and go out and shout the odds and smash things up and end up going to jail. And there is now a growing number of less celebrated EDL supporters in and out of the courts each week after incidents at rallies and protests who are getting little or no support from the organisation. This hasn't gone unnoticed particularly when their celebrity criminals like Robinson, seem to get all the publicity, petitions, press coverage and above all, money.

These 'social' EDL members are genuinely upset and angry about what they see as imminent 'Islamification' and Sharia courts around the corner. These are the people who really do believe all the Xmas banned, and schoolkids being force-fed halal food stories and that Tommy Robinson was sweating during his Paxman interview because the BBC make-up woman was a Muslim and refused to do him. These are the 'sheeple' of the EDL, desperately looking for some leadership. Although misguided, they do have a strong sense of right and wrong and if Tommy Robinson is exposed for coining it in off the backs of the ordinary supporters they will turn on him and those seen as being in league with him.

The rally in Brum on the 29th. will be a good measure of the state of the organisation. Football isn't a consideration with this rally as they have had marches and rallies before during the season, and attracted 1000's. They are now only attracting 100s. They have already shat off the 'return to Tower Hamlets', possibly because, for all their bravado and macho shouting, they recognise they got away lightly last month and could end up being seriously humiliated if they try it again.

Short of another proven Muslim terrorist attack in the UK, I would not be in the least surprised if the EDL disappeared completely within the next six months. And I predict that most of those involved as anything more than 'facebook likes', will return to having little or no political involvement.

I could be wrong but there you have it for what it's worth.

john x


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2011)

Corax said:


> Yeah but apart from the differences it's exactly the same.


so, apart from the differences i am exactly the same as beyonce. apart from the differences, dickens' 'a tale of two cities' is exactly the same as time out's 2011 film guide. apart from the differences, beethoven's fifth symphony is exactly the same as a banana.

what's your point caller?


----------



## Corax (Oct 16, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> so, apart from the differences i am exactly the same as beyonce. apart from the differences, dickens' 'a tale of two cities' is exactly the same as time out's 2011 film guide. apart from the differences, beethoven's fifth symphony is exactly the same as a banana.
> 
> what's your point caller?


Pickmans, Pickmans, _Pickmans... _

My 'point' was exactly what you've rather laboriously spelled out.

Go sit in the corner and write out "I will consider subtlety as a possibility" one hundred times.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2011)

Corax said:


> Pickmans, Pickmans, _Pickmans... _
> 
> My 'point' was exactly what you've rather painfully spelled out.
> 
> Go sit in the corner and write out "I will consider subtlety as a possibility" one hundred times.


i did consider subtlety as a possibility, ran through your repertoire of posting habits and decided it couldn't possibly be subtlety as i'd believed that beyond you.


----------



## Corax (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm hurt. 

"A pleasure working alongside you" you once said.  Where did those days go?  Such sweet, happy days...


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 17, 2011)

bloody blimey and absolutely spot on john X. brilliant summary. are you 'malatesta' in disguise?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 17, 2011)

re: blackburn from stormfront:
'the police came calling with letters telling us to stay away which we believed to be due to EDL leadership giving our names something we have been informed to be true by a trusted friend that was till recently a trusted organiser in the edl he left of his own accord. He was outraged that a certain northwest organiser had passed a list of peoples names to the police that they didn't want at the demo.'
and
'there is no one in the core of the nwi that have just come out of the woodwork ex footy _*c18 *_ex army ect all are vouched for, there is no leadership just people who others respect everything we do is run past us all pretty much'
why are the English defence league so crap at English?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 17, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> bloody blimey and absolutely spot on john X. brilliant summary. are you 'malatesta' in disguise?


We are all 'Malatesta'


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 17, 2011)

'i'm malatesta and so's my wife!' etc.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm not


----------



## john x (Oct 17, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> why are the English defence league so crap at English?



Simply because it is largely made up of poorly-educated working-class people, who write phonetically ('are' instead of 'our', 'of' instead of 'have'). Many of them are also young and speak a mix of English, facebook and txt speak.

john x


----------



## john x (Oct 17, 2011)

These cretins are now threatening Xtians who are seeking a greater understanding of Islam.

John x


----------



## Corax (Oct 17, 2011)

john x said:


> View attachment 14111
> These cretins are now threatening Xtians who are seeking a greater understanding of Islam.
> 
> John x


Understanding things is against everything the EDL stand for.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 17, 2011)

"10,000" - that would require a Jesus scale miracle in itself. And I thought the whole premise of the EDL was about making people understand islam - making us understand that UNLESS WE WAKE UP EVEN THE WATER WILL BE HALAL AND THEY WILL TURN THE INTERNET INTO A MOSK!!!!


----------



## john x (Oct 17, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> "10,000" - that would require a Jesus scale miracle in itself.


It would indeed, especially as they don't have any 'members' as such. Their support is measured by 'facebook' likes and that '10,000 contains an increasing number of people taking the piss! 

The irony is that they portray themselves as a grass roots 'feet on the street' movement but are actually in fact, just a collection of facebook groups!

john x


----------



## Fingers (Oct 17, 2011)

Not fascist, oh no, not at all

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-attack-muslim-book-stall


----------



## BigTom (Oct 17, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Not fascist, oh no, not at all
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-attack-muslim-book-stall



Fuck, Cradley Heath.. I've heard nothing about any activity from EDL round here for ages, and they pop up in this way two weeks before the Brum demo.. I've kind of expected them to attack SWP stalls but they didn't, and the UAF meeting tonight went unmolested as far as I know (was at the council house, I didn't go but was outside at occupy birmingham for a substantial portion of the meeting and there was no EDL around).  Surprised at hearing about this really.


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 17, 2011)

It's fucking Cradley Heath. That shithole has always been a bit of a Black Country fash stronghold. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that a scooter shop was still openly selling B&H merch. I suspect this is the usual local racists being cunts and chanting EDL.

Still predicting a washout for next weekend


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 18, 2011)

john x said:


> It would indeed, especially as they don't have any 'members' as such. Their support is measured by 'facebook' likes and that '10,000 contains an increasing number of people taking the piss!
> 
> The irony is that they portray themselves as a grass roots 'feet on the street' movement but *are actually in fact, just a collection of facebook groups!*
> 
> john x



which is exactly what some of argued about a year ago despite the predictions of the wholescale attacks on the left, BNP back on the street , wide spread pogroms etc etc


----------



## audiotech (Oct 18, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> which is exactly what some of argued about a year ago despite the predictions of the wholescale attacks on the left, BNP back on the street , wide spread pogroms etc etc



I'd be interested in who was predicting "widespread pogroms" and "wholesale attacks on the left", but I suspect you just exaggerated that for effect?


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 18, 2011)

I thought EDL attacks on the left would increase but I didn't predict a right wing split in the EDL furthermore I didn't expect the split in the EDL to be so weak.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 18, 2011)

I thought the attacks on the left were disturbing and could grow into a trend. Broadly speaking this didn't much happen. I never thought such attacks would be "wholescale", but I 'm certainly glad my pessimism was generally misplaced.

The EDL were and remain more than just a set of Facebook groups. But the FB stuff is the main ongoing contingency and they are long past their peak.


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 18, 2011)

I think the failure of the EDL threat to emerge is due in no small part to the vigorous opposition they have met from anti-fascists and 'the left' at every turn. The challenge of engaging with a disenfranchised white working class has still to be met though.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 18, 2011)

john x said:


> View attachment 14111
> These cretins are now threatening Xtians who are seeking a greater understanding of Islam.
> 
> John x



I rang them up today just to offer support and say that with their organisational skills the worst the EDL were likely to pull off would be half a dozen drunks shouting for a couple of hours. They said they are going ahead with the course and are considering passing on the threat to plod.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 19, 2011)

audiotech said:


> I'd be interested in who was predicting "widespread pogroms" and "wholesale attacks on the left", but I suspect you just exaggerated that for effect?



I suspect that you just need to re read some of the posts on here audio rather than lazily and inaccurately accusing me of exaggeration.


----------



## audiotech (Oct 19, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> I suspect that you just need to re read some of the posts on here audio rather than lazily and inaccurately accusing me of exaggeration.



Couldn't be bothered to back-up your assertion and you throw a "lazily" back at me. Ha, good one.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 19, 2011)

I presume you guys have seen the whole EDL/KKK thing in the Daily Mirror this morning? Well EDL News have spent the day following it up. There is a link to the original story in this link

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-news-finds-further-links-to-the-edl-and-the-ku-klux-klan


----------



## Corax (Oct 19, 2011)

Fingers said:


> I presume you guys have seen the whole EDL/KKK thing in the Daily Mirror this morning? Well EDL News have spent the day following it up. There is a link to the original story in this link
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-news-finds-further-links-to-the-edl-and-the-ku-klux-klan


I'm not totally comfortable with the names and photos of members of his family to be honest with you, unless they also have known fash activities.  Bit of blurring maybe?


----------



## Corax (Oct 19, 2011)

Fingers said:


> I presume you guys have seen the whole EDL/KKK thing in the Daily Mirror this morning? Well EDL News have spent the day following it up. There is a link to the original story in this link
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-news-finds-further-links-to-the-edl-and-the-ku-klux-klan


He's a tattoo artist it seems, and what an artist! Who _wouldn't_ want a picture of a burning mekon on their neck?







Before anyone asks what political point I have with this, I haven't.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 19, 2011)

Corax said:


> I'm not totally comfortable with the names and photos of members of his family to be honest with you, unless they also have known fash activities. Bit of blurring maybe?


 
Not sure they are family, i think just people with the same name. I will pass on your concerns though, no probs.


----------



## Corax (Oct 19, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Not sure they are family, i think just people with the same name. I will pass on your concerns though, no probs.


Ah, right you are.  I thought that was his 'friends', rather than search results.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

Corax said:


> He's a tattoo artist it seems, and what an artist! Who _wouldn't_ want a picture of a burning mekon on their neck?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you should have got a burning melon.

fyi, the mekon looks like this:






your tattoo looks more like a lardy buddha.


----------



## Corax (Oct 19, 2011)

Given the lotus, I suspect buddha's what it's meant to be, I just think the mekon's funnier.

Why buddha's blue, constipated, and surrounded by flames, is another question entirely.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 19, 2011)

Lardy blue zombie buddha.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

Corax said:


> Given the lotus, I suspect buddha's what it's meant to be, I just think the mekon's funnier.
> 
> Why buddha's blue, constipated, and surrounded by flames, is another question entirely.


and apparently emerging from an artichoke.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 20, 2011)

EDL/casuals 'mourn' charlene downes through the medium of lager.
http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/n...emand_1_3885349?commentssort=1&commentspage=0


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Oct 20, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL/casuals 'mourn' charlene downes through the medium of lager.
> http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/n...emand_1_3885349?commentssort=1&commentspage=0



Putting the aside the ludicrous "are you a Muslamic Red tofu eater?" tone of some of the comments, I'm reminded once again how Ms Downes' family have been thoroughly used by the EDL for their own ends - depressing/grim stuff.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 20, 2011)

ironic considering the far right's record. umm not really.


----------



## Kidda (Oct 20, 2011)

BigTom said:


> Fuck, Cradley Heath.. I've heard nothing about any activity from EDL round here for ages, and they pop up in this way two weeks before the Brum demo.. I've kind of expected them to attack SWP stalls but they didn't, and the UAF meeting tonight went unmolested as far as I know (was at the council house, I didn't go but was outside at occupy birmingham for a substantial portion of the meeting and there was no EDL around). Surprised at hearing about this really.



They have a lot of support in Rowley Regis/Blackheath and many more idiots who support them due to their opposition to the Mosque in Dudley.
I grew up with some of them and they are just your typical, uneducated, angry white lads who are more scared of the outside world rather than any real threat from ''Militant Islam'' who work shitty jobs and have pretty sad personal lives. That said they do form a great bunch for those more clued up fash wanting new recruits.

From what i see of some that are involved, its the social aspect that draws them more, ''We're all in it together now lets get pissed''.

Shame really, because there is a lot of positive identity to be had by being a Yam Yam from the Black Country without the need for all this bullshit.

(and i speak as a Yam Yam myself)


----------



## Fingers (Oct 22, 2011)

Oh no. Maybe one for the nekid thread

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/edl-sex-pest-of-the-week-gaz-walker


----------



## BigTom (Oct 22, 2011)

found out tonight that edl aren't going to be in victoria square in brum on the 29th as had apparently been agreed, after pressure from the mosques, uaf and possibly partly because of occupy birmingham.
Don't know where they are going to be instead though.


----------



## thriller (Oct 22, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh no. Maybe one for the nekid thread
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/edl-sex-pest-of-the-week-gaz-walker



LMAO. He looks like Minty.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 22, 2011)

EDL Brum demo won't be held in Victoria Square
e2a - Tom already said that, doh!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> found out tonight that edl aren't going to be in victoria square in brum on the 29th as had apparently been agreed, after pressure from the mosques, uaf and possibly partly because of occupy birmingham.
> Don't know where they are going to be instead though.



Tommy's back garden? Kev's street? Frank's flat in USA? I know! James's place over in Canada!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 22, 2011)

English Defence League: news & reflections for October: http://bit.ly/qrCpv5


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2011)

price-less EDL calendar!
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/calendar1.pdf


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Oct 23, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> price-less EDL calendar!
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/calendar1.pdf



Good God - that thing needs a health warning slapped all over it! (reaches for sick bucket)


----------



## john x (Oct 23, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> price-less



No it's not!

He appears on the April page. 

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2011)

sorry but i dont see why i should be the only one freaked out by this!


----------



## BigTom (Oct 23, 2011)

EDL threatened or attacked occupy newcastle last night, one arrested:




			
				@occupynewcastle said:
			
		

> One member of the EDL have been arrested at Monument tonight. They have backed off for now. Thanks to the@NorthumbriaPol #OccupyNewcastle


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2011)

EDL big legal day out on november 3rd courtesy of our friends at eveything EDL.
http://twitpic.com/73rfbh
not looking good for tommy. shame. such a nice lad.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2011)

BigTom said:


> EDL threatened or attacked occupy newcastle last night, one arrested:



big man, you got any links for that? EDL yet again showing themselves up to be a scab organisation. they opposed education cuts demos and public sector cuts demos as well. piss poor.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 23, 2011)

only on twitter - have a look at @occupynewcastle feed and the #occupynewcastle tag.. I've just checked and you can view them if you are not logged in.. this is everything I know.


----------



## john x (Oct 23, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL yet again showing themselves up to be a scab organisation.



Carrying on an ignoble tradition of the far-right claiming to speak for the workers but actually working for the bosses.

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2011)

john x said:


> Carrying on an ignoble tradition of the far-right claiming to speak for the workers but actually working for the bosses.
> 
> john x



and yet more courtesy of EverythingEDL
http://twitpic.com/photos/everythingedl
fucking scabs.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 23, 2011)

#*EDL* Newcastle Klan discuss how to 'deal' with @*OccupyNewcastle*. #*occupylsx* #*ows* twitpic.com/74od30


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 23, 2011)

I like the one about how the guy would have liked Gaddafi to run England


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2011)

come on guys, who is else is going to admit to being slightly aroused by Ms August? Phwoar! Wot a stunner! Melly youre excused. apologies for discomfiting your delicate constitution earlier!


----------



## BigTom (Oct 23, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> come on guys, who is else is going to admit to being slightly aroused by Ms August? Phwoar! Wot a stunner! Melly youre excused. apologies for discomfiting your delicate constitution earlier!



March looks well tasty, I could eat that one out for sure!
glad to see pigman mankini in there, the EDL wouldn't be the same without that particular pin-up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> big man, you got any links for that? EDL yet again showing themselves up to be a scab organisation. they opposed education cuts demos and public sector cuts demos as well. piss poor.


tbh the edl having a pop at occupy newcastle aren't being scabs - scabs being people who cross picket lines, or take jobs when there's a strike on. this is just them being their normal selves - reactionary, certainly - but scabs simply on the basis of having a pop at occupy newcastle? no. and frankly you haven't shown they're scabs for opposing cuts. they're a lot of things, but until you can show them crossing picket lines or taking jobs to break strikes you can't imo call them scabs.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 23, 2011)

No surprise really...the EDL are hardly 'clued up' when it comes to seeing they are in the same boat as the rest of us. Doing the right wing's bidding even though the right wing insult/use/indoctrinate/exploit them.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 23, 2011)

Oh and I quite like the use of the term 'scab' here above. They are working class traitors....


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Oh and I quite like the use of the term 'scab' here above. They are working class traitors....


i suppose you could describe them as scabs on the basis that they refuse membership of the union, under this definition http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scab

but i don't know why you don't call them what they are, nationalist cunts.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 23, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i suppose you could describe them as scabs on the basis that they refuse membership of the union, under this definition http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scab
> 
> but i don't know why you don't call them what they are, nationalist cunts.



I would PM...only from where I am sitting they dont have the support of, nor do they reflect the interests of the Nation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> I would PM...only from where I am sitting they dont have the support of, nor do they reflect the interests of the Nation.


yeh? you can be communist and not have the support of the working class and you can be nationalist and not have the support of the nation.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 23, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i suppose you could describe them as scabs on the basis that they refuse membership of the union, under this definition http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scab
> 
> but i don't know why you don't call them what they are, nationalist cunts.


cunt's too good for 'em


----------



## Masokrist (Oct 24, 2011)

EDL: Sunderland Division appeared on facebook this afternoon.

http://www.facebook.com/SunderlandDivisionEDL

Also, check this out - what they are feeding on: http://i55.tinypic.com/rk9bvd.jpg

The mosque is just an idea at the moment and a solution to the 'illegal' Mosque. Lots of history, too much to go into. They are hiding behind 'Increased traffic flow' as an excuse. Which translates in grafitti on the side of the building as "No P***S".


----------



## sptme (Oct 24, 2011)

Oi, stop insulting cunts


----------



## krink (Oct 24, 2011)

BigTom said:


> EDL threatened or attacked occupy newcastle last night, one arrested:



The occupy newcastle site was saying it was one of the occupiers who got arrested after having a go at the edl who had threatend his girlfriend.

*just had a text to say it was edl who got arrested. soz.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2011)

love


BigTom said:


> March looks well tasty, I could eat that one out for sure!
> glad to see pigman mankini in there, the EDL wouldn't be the same without that particular pin-up.


the juxtaposition of the pigman-kini and the charlene downes placard is classi EDL. the parents must be glad of support of this calibre.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2011)

the EDL are the kind of people who went against the general strike in 1926, the type who moaned about the miners during the 84/5 strike and are the type to moan about 'middle class' student demos (having no experience of further or higher education and not realising that a lot of working class people go to these places - as they should). they are against the anti-cuts demos which protest the massive attack on workers' living standards. by trying to attack demos - and failing of corse - that are defending the interests of working people, that is scab activity to me. it is physical action against working class interests. this is my 'remixed' version of it anyway!


----------



## krink (Oct 24, 2011)

they were officially against a strike about a year or so ago (maybe longer) it may have been the british airways dispute if my memory etc. etc. that is enough to call them scabs for me but they are nationalist cunts too and most certainly class traitors.


----------



## john x (Oct 24, 2011)

krink said:


> and most certainly class traitors.


And remember, apart from racist and homophobic attacks and a few silly marches, the only other real activity of the National Front in the '70s and '80s was to aid employers in drawing up blacklists of 'militant' trades union members.

john x


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 24, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> the EDL are the kind of people who went against the general strike in 1926, the type who moaned about the miners during the 84/5 strike and are the type to moan about 'middle class' student demos (having no experience of further or higher education and not realising that a lot of working class people go to these places - as they should). they are against the anti-cuts demos which protest the massive attack on workers' living standards. by trying to attack demos - and failing of corse - that are defending the interests of working people, that is scab activity to me. it is physical action against working class interests. this is my 'remixed' version of it anyway!



I wouldn't be too sure that none of them had exprience of further/higher education tbh.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2011)

frogs, yr quite right as some EDL have FE/HE experience but the point is they push this outdated 'all stoodents are middle clarse' cliche. its such bollocks and bears no relation to reality. like everything else they parp on abaht!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 25, 2011)

#EDL plan attacks on #occupylsx for October 30th. 

http://twitpic.com/75b7yy


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> #EDL plan attacks on #occupylsx for October 30th.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/75b7yy



LB see the above post re: scab organisation. this yet again shows them to be doing the bosses work for them against the community. 'peacefully protesting  militant islamists' or treacherous scab bastards?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 25, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> #EDL plan attacks on #occupylsx for October 30th.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/75b7yy


laughable. I don't imagine anyone will turn up.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 25, 2011)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-plan-arson-attack-on-lsx-camp


----------



## Fingers (Oct 25, 2011)

Their membership are dropping like flies. No real buzz in the lead up to Saturday's national demo in Brum and John 'Pigman' Gilling of all people has surrendered

http://www.twitpic.com/75qvi0


----------



## Fingers (Oct 25, 2011)

John Pigman Gilling


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Their membership are dropping like flies. No real buzz in the lead up to Saturday's national demo in Brum and John 'Pigman' Gilling of all people has surrendered
> 
> http://www.twitpic.com/75qvi0


i said before the tower hamlets attempt that the edl wouldn't last too much longer: but i also believe that a new organisation will emerge to try to harness the energy which has been attracted by some edl demos. i wouldn't be surprised if the nei lot decided to go national.


----------



## Corax (Oct 25, 2011)

I said that the BNP were no longer a threat, and was told I was wrong.
I said that the EDL were no longer a threat, and was told I was wrong, and that I had been wrong about the BNP at the time.
I must stop being ahead of the curve. 



ETA: I also predicted that Shearer would be England captain one day whilst he was still dicking about at Saints.  I should start charging for this shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2011)

Corax said:


> I said that the BNP were no longer a threat, and was told I was wrong.
> I said that the EDL were no longer a threat, and was told I was wrong, and that I had been wrong about the BNP at the time.
> I must stop being ahead of the curve.
> 
> ...


when you say it it is wrong.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 25, 2011)

I can see it going that way, saturday's national demo is going to be a massive flop and they are going to get chased out of Brum again.  I really cannot see where the future is, especially with tommy facing jail and Kocaine Kev's inability to start a blaze in a firework factory, never mind organise a demo.


----------



## Corax (Oct 25, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> when you say it it is wrong.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 25, 2011)

POsted before?



> *Approach of the EDL*
> 
> Oct 24, 2011   //   by impshum   //   Blog  //  1 Comment
> With the Rising Against Islamophobia demonstration on the 29 October 2011 at Newcastle Monument just round the corner the EDL, a right-wing movement against Islamism and Sharia law in England, approached the camp on Saturday 22nd October 2011. This wasn’t exactly what we had hoped for as far as action is concerned but… It happened, and we’re all ok and still smiling.
> ...


 
http://occupynewcastle.org/2011/10/24/attack-of-the-edl/


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 25, 2011)

So the Occupy Newcastle bloke hugged the EDL bloke?

FFS...


----------



## Corax (Oct 25, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> So the Occupy Newcastle bloke hugged the EDL bloke?
> 
> FFS...


I wasn't sure whether he hugged the EDL bloke or the copper.

Not that either are a savoury proposition..


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 25, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> So the Occupy Newcastle bloke hugged the EDL bloke?
> 
> FFS...



They could probably do with more love in their lives - just saying ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2011)

Corax said:


> I wasn't sure whether he hugged the EDL bloke or the copper.
> 
> Not that either are a savoury proposition..


yeh you'd want to get to a dr and a shower as soon as possible after either encounter.


----------



## john x (Oct 26, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Their membership are dropping like flies. No real buzz in the lead up to Saturday's national demo in Brum


Quite a bit of dissent over the moving of the static rally point. Prospect of lots of small groups of EDL unable to link up is not being taken well. The cry of "Whose streets? Are streets!" is being replaced by "We're seriously going to get our heads kicked in if we're not careful". Also a mixture of criticism of the 'organisers' for letting the police move the rally point and complete blind faith in those who know best.

Also a growing number of "I'm sorry I can't be with you on Saturday blah, blah, blah...." which was seen before Tower Hamlets.

Could well be their last national demo.

john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 26, 2011)

...


----------



## Corax (Oct 26, 2011)

Anonymous are becoming something of a Robin Hood, various unconnected actions being ascribed to them, a catch-all umbrella myth.

Which fits quite nicely with their nebulous reality really.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 26, 2011)

...


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> Anonymous are becoming something of a Robin Hood, various unconnected actions being ascribed to them, a catch-all umbrella myth.
> 
> Which fits quite nicely with their nebulous reality really.


Feck. Wrong thread.


----------



## Corax (Oct 26, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Feck. Wrong thread.


Well you've made my reply look a bit fucking random now haven't you?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2011)

Quite fitting actually - same sort of internet obsessed issues about a nothing...


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 26, 2011)

Corax said:


> Anonymous are becoming something of a Robin Hood, various unconnected actions being ascribed to them, a catch-all umbrella myth.
> 
> Which fits quite nicely with their nebulous reality really.



They won't be making umpteen films about Annonymous


----------



## Corax (Oct 26, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> They won't be making umpteen films about Annonymous


I dunno, they made one about fucking facebook....


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 26, 2011)

Tommy said on the raido this demo was cos some guy like 1400 years ago shagged a 9 year old or something yeah.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 26, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> So the Occupy Newcastle bloke hugged the EDL bloke?
> 
> FFS...



More concerned about Robbie and his penchant for announcing that he is a Mackem to Newcastle supporters


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 26, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommy said on the raido this demo was cos some guy like 1400 years ago shagged a 9 year old or something yeah.


I've heard it. It's a lot of old bollox using nearly the same reasons as last time (Islam4UK evangelising in city centre/11yo conversion which was condemned by Muslim Council of Britain;



			
				Tommy Liar Robinson said:
			
		

> “We came to Birmingham because Anjem Choudary held an Islamic road show in Birmingham city centre, with hundreds of Muslims and had a big banner that read Jesus was a Muslim and they converted an 11 year old child, called Sean, without his parents, who was shopping in the city centre with his friends, they got him up on stage and they converted him, in the middle of Birmingham city centre to Islam. Now, the local Islamic community response to that was what? It was nothing! We come to Birmingham to try and highlight this issue, we came to Birmingham with placards that read ‘Muslim - no problem’, Extremist Muslim - big problem.”



I'll have to check back to see what placards EDL were holding in Brum the last time, but the Muslim Council of Britain did condemn the conversion by Choudary and it was widely publicised at the time, well before EDL went to Brum.

Defamation of religion at most, at least, complete and utter misrepresentative bollox. I'm all for questioning religion directly (go Spinoza) but this crap isn't even true. EL are promoting Sabaditch-Wolff who was prosecuted and convicted of defamation of religion for saying the same thing as Yaxely-Lennon Robinson is now saying. Sabaditch-Wolff recently was made Dame for defaming religion of Islam by some far-right crypto-fascist Christian templar 'order' based in USA. More here on that group from Barthsnotes: http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/20...sabeth-sabaditsch-wolff-into-chivalric-order/


----------



## krink (Oct 26, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> So the Occupy Newcastle bloke hugged the EDL bloke?
> 
> FFS...



Yup, very disturbing. They've been happily posing with the cops for smiley-love-in pictures too. I've since heard that their fluffy approach to edl etc has now been ironed out and won't be happeing again which is a start I suppose...

News also that there will be 100 edl from the north east and as far afield as Leeds in Newcastle on saturday to attack an anti-islamophobia event that some liberal lefties are putting on. It's timed for around midday if anyone is in the area and would like to have a look.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 26, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> They won't be making umpteen films about Annonymous



http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1521197/


----------



## Fingers (Oct 27, 2011)

after realising that their plan to not obey plod will probably end in a kicking, they have now done a humiliating climbdown and have announced that they will do what mr plod tells them to do lol

they are a bit fucked here, whilst they may attract the less hard core to the demo, those that want a ruck are going to be well pissed off.

http://twitpic.com/767wxg


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i said before the tower hamlets attempt that the edl wouldn't last too much longer: but i also believe that a new organisation will emerge to try to harness the energy which has been attracted by some edl demos. i wouldn't be surprised if the nei lot decided to go national.



yeah the infidels are in pole position really if tommy is jailed and the numbers are down on saturday. whether they have the organisational skills is one thing, but they have pissed off a lot of people down south, like the tommy loyalists, so this may be harder to do. there was always a bit of a 'terrace fashion' feel to the edl - as witnessed by muslamic raygun bloke who didnt know why he was there - like sherlock hats and manchester united being invincible. a very silly game indeed!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I wouldn't be too sure that none of them had exprience of further/higher education tbh.



from liverpool EDL re: ocuupy.
The vast majority of these Anarchists are students or ex Students, the same students who received THOUSANDS of pounds funded by the tax payer YOU! So your paying your fees to see Buses and Transport delayed, weddings cancelled and a logistic nightmare. All by the same people funded by UNITE the Union, praised in socialist media and consider it justice to URINATE on Police officers who have simply been sent to do their job.'

£1,000s? really? usual bullocks from clueless eejits!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't think EDL members are in a strong position to discuss urination or respect for historic/religious buildings in the same sentence.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2011)

surely students would be NUS not Unite?

EDL! get your unions right! lol


----------



## Corax (Oct 27, 2011)

I keep coming back to the idea of a leftist version of the EDL.

All that energy and anger - surely it must be possible to put it to better use?  These are the kids that left-wing actions have been founded on in the past.  They're working class, and pissed off.

Is it possible to have "left-wing patriotism"?  What would it look like?

I would start a thread on it, but I'm pretty sure that certain posters would just use it to ridicule and sneer, and wave their intellects and superior knowledge around so that everyone can see how clever they are.  Frankly, I'd rather not have the conflict.  Maybe someone with a better knowledge of political history and theory than me could start the discussion.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2011)

Corax said:


> I keep coming back to the idea of a leftist version of the EDL.
> 
> All that energy and anger - surely it must be possible to put it to better use? These are the kids that left-wing actions have been founded on in the past. They're working class, and pissed off.
> 
> ...


 
what some sort of nationalist socialism?

cards marked etc


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 27, 2011)

Patriotism like anti-war activist Pete Seeger who sang 'Bring 'em home' from a patriot pov? (our boys getting killed)

or Patriotism like pro-war activists EDL?   Who wrongly frame all Muslims as 'the enemy' and commit vigilante acts against British Muslims on home ground.


----------



## Corax (Oct 27, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> what some sort of nationalist socialism?
> 
> cards marked etc


lol

I'm not sure what.  Just some way of channeling all that justified anger at how close their horizons are, into something more useful than shouting about 'muzzies'.


----------



## Corax (Oct 27, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Patriotism like anti-war activist Pete Seeger who sang 'Bring 'em home' from a patriot pov? (our boys getting killed)
> 
> or Patriotism like pro-war activists EDL? Who wrongly frame all Muslims as 'the enemy' and commit vigilante acts against British Muslims on home ground.


I don't hold with patriotism at all really, personally speaking. Countries are a nonsense. But 'pride' in being English is clearly something that floats a lot of people's boats. They've already been conditioned by the English myth - is there a way of subverting that?


----------



## BigTom (Oct 28, 2011)

EDL demo in Birmingham has apparently caused the British Legion to delay the launch of their poppy appeal (which was supposed to be in Birmingham apparently)!:
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-cause-rbl-to-cancel-poppy-appeal-launch


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 28, 2011)

Been so out of the loop as late due to DIY and work and family stuff.....

how many do we think will attend on Sat?>


----------



## john x (Oct 28, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Been so out of the loop as late due to DIY and work and family stuff.....
> 
> how many do we think will attend on Sat?>


900 tops

Mind you, as with the Tower Hamlets fiasco, they are starting to run out of pubs that will serve them.

Revolution Bar, Broad Street B15 1BL 0121 665 6508218

O'Neill's Bar 0121 616 1623

are the latest two proposals for meet up points.

john x


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> I don't hold with patriotism at all really, personally speaking. Countries are a nonsense. But 'pride' in being English is clearly something that floats a lot of people's boats. They've already been conditioned by the English myth - is there a way of subverting that?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnmg-k1BR6U Something like this?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 28, 2011)

john x said:


> 900 tops
> 
> Mind you, as with the Tower Hamlets fiasco, they are starting to run out of pubs that will serve them.
> 
> ...



Cheers for the info, i dont agree with all this "ring the pub shite" i would rather everyone knew where they where.


----------



## john x (Oct 28, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> i dont agree with all this "ring the pub shite" i would rather everyone knew where they where.



One of the major reasons they are getting less and less people to their pub crawls is that they are finding it harder to find somewhere to drink and it's really pissing a lot of them off.

john x


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 28, 2011)

The anti Islamophobia event in Newcastle has been postponed, because the orgasnisers didn't want to put city centre shoppers and the many families invited at the risk of the threatened violence.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 28, 2011)

john x said:


> One of the major reasons they are getting less and less people to their pub crawls is that they are finding it harder to find somewhere to drink and it's really pissing a lot of them off.
> 
> john x



yeah but the ones that go you wont know where they are, and i dont agree with stopping people having a pint racist or not. knowing where they are is handy


----------



## LLETSA (Oct 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> Is it possible to have "left-wing patriotism"? What would it look like?



As Norman Tebbit pointed out when he tried to say the BNP were left wing, there have been plenty of patriotic and nationalistic left wing regimes. And what about the number of national liberation movements that were led by the left? That was a form of patriotism. So, too, the Communist-led partisan movements in Yugoslavia and elsewhere during WW2. And there was a strong patriotic element to governments like that of Allende.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 28, 2011)

BigTom said:


> EDL demo in Birmingham has apparently caused the British Legion to delay the launch of their poppy appeal (which was supposed to be in Birmingham apparently)!:
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-cause-rbl-to-cancel-poppy-appeal-launch


Interesting as there was some EDL- type stuff going around a few months back about the legion not being able to sell poppies in brum town centre because of muslim objections. Turned out it was because they got their pitch application in late,and another charity gave them theirs anyway. Now the EDL have stopped this poppy menace.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 28, 2011)

BigTom said:


> EDL demo in Birmingham has apparently caused the British Legion to delay the launch of their poppy appeal (which was supposed to be in Birmingham apparently)!:
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-cause-rbl-to-cancel-poppy-appeal-launch


That's sad


----------



## john x (Oct 28, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah but the ones that go you wont know where they are, and i dont agree with stopping people having a pint racist or not. knowing where they are is handy



If stopping them having a pint means they lose interest in attending these do's then it's fine by me. Also the more they drink the braver they get and the more likely they are to go on the attack.

And we'll know where they are because the cops will have them surrounded from the coach drop-off points and New St railway station.

john x


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## Kidda (Oct 28, 2011)

It's almost time for the English Anthem in Birmingham.

Please be upstanding, and keep your eyes open for weapons.


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## frogwoman (Oct 28, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> As Norman Tebbit pointed out when he tried to say the BNP were left wing, there have been plenty of patriotic and nationalistic left wing regimes. And what about the number of national liberation movements that were led by the left? That was a form of patriotism. So, too, the Communist-led partisan movements in Yugoslavia and elsewhere during WW2. And there was a strong patriotic element to governments like that of Allende.



same as in the early zionist movements and the early governments in Israel, interestingly enough. And in the USSR.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 28, 2011)

I know there was an attempt around 2005 to set up a "British Workers Party" that was patriotic and socialist. 39thstep might know more


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 28, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I know there was an attempt around 2005 to set up a "British Workers Party" that was patriotic and socialist. 39thstep might know more


I am feeling a certain deja vu about that post, there was a british workers party around in the immediate post war period, it was one of the splinters from the dregs of Mosleys Union Movement and thArnold Leese's Imperial Fascist League.


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 29, 2011)

I'd be amazed if there's anything near 900. They've failed to get anywhere near that number in Brum on their other incursions. The OB managed to squeeze 'em all onto 3 WM travel busses last time which must add up to around 150


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 29, 2011)

It's hardly a new phenomenon though, is it? There's a good essay here about George Orwell's own attempts to fuse a populist patriotism alongside his own brand of democratic socialism during the 1940's. http://clogic.eserver.org/2007/Bounds.pdf I suppose this tendency is best expressed in "The Lion and the Unicorn" in particular "England, Your England" but beneath some of the nostalgia and sentimentality in that particular essay, there was a more serious political project on the Tribune-ite left at the time, to create that kind of a patriotic socialism. I suppose it was a necessary adaptation in the face of fascism and nationalist resurgence as part of the war effort. After all, in 1941 British people were faced with the real prospect that English and/or British Nationalism was about to be wiped out forever. Even reading the Lion and Unicorn you get the feeling Orwell wasn't just trying to cynically appeal to popular patriotic feelings, but to document a society that stood on the brink of destrcution, to document pre-nazi English nationalism whilst it was still possible.

Left-wing populist patriotism a prominent feature in practically every anti-colonial and anti-imperialist struggle you care to think off, I suppose the best example that springs to mind is Sinn Fein and Irish Republicanism/nationalism, even though I'm aware of how reactionary and ideologically "pragmatic" Sinn Fein can be in action, nontheless the party's heritage is rooted in authentic anti-imperialist class struggle whilst being staunchly nationalist. And isn't it the case that the Soviet Union referred to World War 2 as the "Great Patriotic War" at the time? Stalin was certainly fond of appealing to traditional Russian nationalism.

Anyway the EDL demo in Brum tomorrow looks like another washout, possibly the worst yet. I've just had a good look around the fascist forums, twitters and facebooks and there's very little buzz about it at all. There's the same open whining about turnout, coaches being called off, divisions going missing, regional organizers stressing out and throwing their toys outta the pram etc that I remember seeing in abundance before Tower Hamlets. Which bodes well I suppose, and it'll also be interesting to see what UAF do in response.


----------



## krink (Oct 29, 2011)

krink said:


> News also that there will be 100 edl from the north east and as far afield as Leeds in Newcastle on saturday to attack an anti-islamophobia event that some liberal lefties are putting on. It's timed for around midday if anyone is in the area and would like to have a look.



The anti-islamophobia event due today has been cancelled!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The anti Islamophobia event in Newcastle has been postponed, because the orgasnisers didn't want to put city centre shoppers and the many families invited at the risk of the threatened violence.



you got a link for that anywhere?
luton, croydon, yorkshire and liverpool EDL on the way but there are a lot of 'otherwise engaged' members. this is the last national of the year, the cops have had to tighten up after last time and the hoo ha about costs and the EDL numbers are going to be down due to the infidels factionalism. good news is joanne 'bus stop' dickens is going and the plymouth CxF are on the look out for kebab shops to attack.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 29, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> you got a link for that anywhere?
> luton, croydon, yorkshire and liverpool EDL on the way but there are a lot of 'otherwise engaged' members. this is the last national of the year, the cops have had to tighten up after last time and the hoo ha about costs and the EDL numbers are going to be down due to the infidels factionalism. good news is joanne 'bus stop' dickens is going and the plymouth CxF are on the look out for kebab shops to attack.



What is the turnout for the Yorkshire divisions looking like? In particular Huddersfield and Bradford if you know.

I'm interested to see just how badly they've been affected by the Infidels split, or if the Infidels are planning on attending.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2011)

dont know numbers but the split will have affected yorkshire somewhat. its important to photograph today and see numbers and areas (from hoodies) who are still tommy-istas. there is very bad blood between NEI, NWI and EDL. they hate tommy cos he is IRA cokehead zionist etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2011)

rather amusing footage of a totally humiliated nottingham division being herded onto a bus after get humiliated by east enders.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68a_1315379794


----------



## LLETSA (Oct 29, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> same as in the early zionist movements and the early governments in Israel, interestingly enough. And in the USSR.


 
There was also a patriotic/nationalistic element to the Communist regimes, particularly when they broke with or distanced themselves from Moscow. When I first visited Yugoslavia, for example, in the early 1980s, I was surprised at the evidence of national pride on display, and it wasn't all imposed by the regime. Which I suppose is a bit ironic given what happened a decade later.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 29, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> dont know numbers but the split will have affected yorkshire somewhat. its important to photograph today and see numbers and areas (from hoodies) who are still tommy-istas. there is very bad blood between NEI, NWI and EDL. they hate tommy cos he is IRA cokehead zionist etc.



True, but there's one or two Infidels I've noticed saying they're going down to Brum, not many, but I find this surprising. And yes, Yorkshire has been badly split, there's only Dewsbury and Halifax divisions that have regular meetings or turn out to anything in any great numbers now, everywhere else it's just a collection of facebook groups with a few hangers on.


----------



## LLETSA (Oct 29, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> True, but there's one or two Infidels I've noticed saying they're going down to Brum, not many, but I find this surprising. And yes, Yorkshire has been badly split, there's only Dewsbury and Halifax divisions that have regular meetings or turn out to anything in any great numbers now, everywhere else it's just a collection of facebook groups with a few hangers on.


 
The seriousness with which these clowns are treated by the left defies belief.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 29, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> The seriousness with which these clowns are treated by the left defies belief.



Even better its all done by sitting behind a monitor : virtual anti fascism


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 29, 2011)




----------



## The39thStep (Oct 29, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> I am feeling a certain deja vu about that post, there was a british workers party around in the immediate post war period, it was one of the splinters from the dregs of Mosleys Union Movement and thArnold Leese's Imperial Fascist League.



I wouldn't describe those involved with the attempt to set up the BWP in 2005 as dregs to be honest and they certainly weren't anything like the rabid anti semitics of Leese. A few were in the short lived 'ex Marxists for Griffin' circle.


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 29, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> I wouldn't describe those involved with the attempt to set up the BWP in 2005 as dregs to be honest and they certainly weren't anything like the rabid anti semitics of Leese. A few were in the short lived 'ex Marxists for Griffin' circle.


I agree but I was talking about the post war incarnation (1946-8) not the more recent fash shenanigans


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 29, 2011)

Looks like it's all kicing off today, im going to drill some holes for my speaker cable or something.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 29, 2011)

You couldn't make it up...



> *Poppy appeal launch moved over fears about Birmingham EDL protest*
> 
> 
> Read More http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2011/10/29/poppy-appeal-launch-moved-over-fears-about-edl-protests-97319-29681839/#ixzz1cB53RxrX​


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2011)

piss poor turn out in brum, a couple of 100. just a bunch of pissed lads in the rain. not very good for the last national is it? NF fared even worse!
http://twitpic.com/77igf


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 29, 2011)




----------



## Fingers (Oct 29, 2011)

500 tops, massive dissapointment for them and with Tommy getting banged up on Wednesday i am not sure there is a way forward here. They have lost interest and cannot be arsed.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 29, 2011)

Reports say about 40 - 60 EDL/Infidels etc in Newcastle, and maybe ten less lefties (including the Occupy loons), with the two groups shouting at each other.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 29, 2011)

well i never dun my speakers as i think the board behind the wall is asbestos....


----------



## Fingers (Oct 29, 2011)

Checking their facebook walls, the general opinion is that the demo was absolute shite. they are surrendering all over the place


----------



## gawkrodger (Oct 29, 2011)

500 is being generous!

They were bussed in to centeneray square, cordoned off (though if they'd been serious about it could easily have pushed through - we constantly wandered in and out) and then bussed straight out again or straight to the station. Hardly anyone around them, they did look like utter numpties. Can't imagine it going down well. Even the cheering and chants was all rather half-arsed

Noticeably few from Brum itself. The Dudley branch are all long term fash complete with stiff arming.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 29, 2011)

http://www.twitpic.com/77sjck

i dont like the bit where they punch some kid in the face.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 30, 2011)

We really should start dealing with these fucking coach companies that allow the EDL to exist. if they had to rely on local support for their demonstrations they'd never have more than 200 at them .


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 30, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Reports say about 40 - 60 EDL/Infidels etc in Newcastle, and maybe ten less lefties (including the Occupy loons), with the two groups shouting at each other.



Just saw this from Hope Not Hate. Worth reading. http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1454/redneck-roundup







Apparently all the little ex-EDL groupsicles, along with some assorted National Front cranks, started kicking the shit out of each other in a big way in Newcastle today. Rivalries between groups in Yorkshire, Newcastle and Scotland are getting completely out of hand. This pic says it all.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.twitpic.com/77sjck
> 
> i dont like the bit where they punch some kid in the face.



Fair dos to the lad though, he faced off what I assume was a coach load of them, seemingly on his own.


----------



## manny-p (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.twitpic.com/77sjck
> 
> i dont like the bit where they punch some kid in the face.


They- it was one guy.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 30, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Just saw this from Hope Not Hate. Worth reading. http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1454/redneck-roundup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nice axe


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

allybaba said:


> They- it was one guy.



Yeah sorry maybe i should have said him, he, that guy on his own. etc

silly of me really when you think about it.


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

Muslims against Crusades cross the line, endorsing violent attack on Jewish MP at North Finsbury Mosque, gang of 12 with one apparently shouting ''jewish homosexual pig''

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15508697

if this was the EDl or any other R/W group, there would quite rightly be uproar...


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 30, 2011)

But there won't be because everyone loves extremeist muslims soooo much?


----------



## dylans (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> Muslims against Crusades cross the line, endorsing violent attack on Jewish MP at North Finsbury Mosque, gang of 12 with one apparently shouting ''jewish homosexual pig''
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15508697
> 
> if this was the EDl or any other R/W group, there would quite rightly be uproar...


Yeah but because it was Muslim fundamentalists we are all cheering and celebrating instead


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

of course, shoot the fucking messenger, the point is the response is much less even non exisistent than if it was a right wing group, or is made into a comedy act, the fact that a poster has to be aware that he or she will get flak if they post info like this says a lot about the dismissive attitude to these crazies...


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

dylans said:


> Yeah but because it was Muslim fundamentalists we are all cheering and celebrating instead



no, but you are not responding to these incidents the way you do to other groups, an example, the attacks on the SWP meetings were broadcast to the world, I really shouldn't have to defend my posting this...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> of course, shoot the fucking messenger, the point is the response is much less even non exisistent than if it was a right wing group, or is made into a comedy act, the fact that a poster has to be aware that he or she will get flak if they post info like this says a lot about the dismissive attitude to these crazies...



Someone else could post the link and get a considered response, but because it is you - a single minded obsessive compulsive one track manic depressive who never ever responds to "difficult" questions or backs up his positions or offers any serious analysis then you don't, because you don't deserve it.

Change the fucking record Blanquo, loads of people here and further afield are pointing these issues out, whether it's Paul Stott or Ed Husein, or anyone of a hundred others - but it's possible to engage with them, it's not with you, it's not the islamofascists people don't take seriously it's you.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

Maybe you should have posted is in the MAC watch thread?


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

didn't know there was one, did you start it?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

no did you?


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

@SL ah, the classic Trot tactic, questioning someones mental health is they disagree with them, and where on here are they discussing the rise of militant Islam?

oh, and its more than one track, maybe quad?


----------



## dylans (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> no, but you are not responding to these incidents the way you do to other groups, an example, the attacks on the SWP meetings were broadcast to the world, I really shouldn't have to defend my posting this...


ok.

Fucking Islamist scum bastards. I hope the Muslim community run these fucking assholes out of their communities and off the streets. They are a disgrace to every British Muslim and only serve to bring hostility down on minority communities.

Happy now?


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> no did you?



maybe there should be, the behaviour ofthese dangerous fanatics is just as important as that of the EDL

or maybe you don't think it is..


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> maybe there should be, the behaviour ofthese dangerous fanatics is just as important as that of the EDL
> 
> or maybe you don't think it is..



Start a thread then and stop crying about it.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> maybe there should be, the behaviour ofthese dangerous fanatics is just as important as that of the EDL
> 
> or maybe you don't think it is..



maybe you don't if you haven't started one.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> @SL ah, the classic Trot tactic, questioning someones mental health is they disagree with them, and where on here are they discussing the rise of militant Islam?
> 
> oh, and its more than one track, maybe quad?



Search the threads I'm not here to spoon feed you


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

I haven't started one because i knew the response it would get on here, not apologists but certainly looking the other way...


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> maybe there should be, the behaviour ofthese dangerous fanatics is just as important as that of the EDL
> 
> or maybe you don't think it is..



i agree that it is. i also think they're both basically manifestations of the same thing, of the conditions that lead people to support the far-right. The difference with islamist (a shit term but i can't think of a better one) scum tho is that there really aren't very many active members of islamist groups in the UK and they certainly aren't organised nearly to the same degree as the far right. They don't for example attack left-wing groups or random non-muslim people in the street. What happened to all the groups that we used to hear about a few years ago, Hizb, al-Mujiharoun, etc? we discussed this before on a previous thread, and i asked why, if some of these demos are so important to the islamists, do they only have a handful of people turning up to each one?

it's not that their behaviour isn't "important", but it doesn't have as far-reaching an effect, and certainly doesn't have the potential support base of the british far right (not that the far-right itself in its current form is that relevant tbh!) These people are completely marginalised in their own communities and they will never have the ability here to form a mass party in the way that the fash potentially could. In the Middle East? Different story entirely tbh.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)




----------



## frogwoman (Oct 30, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I know there was an attempt around 2005 to set up a "British Workers Party" that was patriotic and socialist. 39thstep might know more



What form did this "patriotism" take though? Maybe it's just me but my insticnt is "no good can come of this"


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 30, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> What form did this "patriotism" take though? Maybe it's just me but my insticnt is "no good can come of this"



Their logo was the Trojan Records helmet over a union flag, it was all pro-British/monarchy pride, including pride in seventies multi culuralism and trade unionism with commonwealth coloureds up to the seventies welcome, no further immigration except Ghurkhas etc and Muslims knowing their place.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 30, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Their logo was the Trojan Records helmet over a union flag, it was all pro-British/monarchy pride, including pride in seventies multi culuralism and trade unionism with commonwealth coloureds up to the seventies welcome, no further immigration except Ghurkhas etc and Muslims knowing their place.



Ah OK


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 30, 2011)

Why does Nick Lowles's blog claim 400 to 500 EDl in Birmingham when it was clear they weren't even half that number?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Why does Nick Lowles's blog claim 400 to 500 EDl in Birmingham when it was clear they weren't even half that number?


I have no idea how many there were there, but Searchlight clearly need things like the EDL to exist if they are to exist...


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

'Occupy Newcastle was attacked last night by 20 30 thugs, (who where connected to an Edl demo earlier in the day) bricks where thrown and people where held down and punched/kicked. As far as I know, no one was hospitalised. They need support down there and need it badly, they are rebuilding the camp... which was trashed during the attack... but they need people to get involved today.

They want to come back stronger, help them.'

from FB OLSX posting, is it correct, any more info?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

ask in the Occupy Newcastle thread?


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

who are you? a board policeman?, this thread has thousands of posts, why should it have one less because you don't like my line of thought...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 30, 2011)

It was attacked by thirty to forty rightwingers last night according to their Facebook, they didn't claim any allegience or wear any logos according to the occupiers, just seemed to be general racist types, to be honest it is Newcastle city centre on a Saturday night, it sounds like they got off lightly.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> who are you? a board policeman?, this thread has thousands of posts, why should it have one less because you don't like my line of thought...


ffs it was a suggestion with a '?' at the end
your demand for confirmation and more info without looking yourself is more annoying tbh


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> who are you? a board policeman?, this thread has thousands of posts, why should it have one less because you don't like my line of thought...



Sit down, have a cupa and chill out bellend. The internet is clearly not working out for you.


----------



## Corax (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm still waiting to be enlightened on what "the left" is.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

you know, people who are not racist cunts... = the left

I dont post in the thread for any other reason than the fact i hate racist cunts. nothing to do with left, right or anything else.... it's not fucking Rocket surgery.


----------



## manny-p (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> silly of me really when you think about it.



Yep exagerating like a lil kid.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Yep exagerating like a lil kid.



yeah thats what i did, you are right.

im sorry and only hope that we can move forward and be super best friends.


----------



## manny-p (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> im sorry and only hope that we can move forward and be super best friends.


You are moving in the right direction.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

you do know that i meant they as in the EDL tho yeah?

just so we are clear?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 30, 2011)

Corax said:


> I'm still waiting to be enlightened on what "the left" is.



treelover is here to make demands, not answer questions


----------



## dylans (Oct 30, 2011)

> it's not fucking Rocket surgery.



Oh I like that. I'm going to steal it. That's a potential meme if ever I heard one


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

yeah, it's better than brain science


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 30, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> It was attacked by thirty to forty rightwingers last night according to their Facebook, they didn't claim any allegience or wear any logos according to the occupiers, just seemed to be general racist types, to be honest it is Newcastle city centre on a Saturday night, it sounds like they got off lightly.



NF were in the toon yesterday along with some infidels.
http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2011/10/national-front-rally-breaks-records.html
nazi posters claiming they had at antifascists on their toes. also NF claiming 200 there which has yet to be substantiated by 'independent sources.' anyone got links? details?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 30, 2011)

Newcastle attack.
http://twitpic.com/7888p0


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> NF were in the toon yesterday along with some infidels.
> http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2011/10/national-front-rally-breaks-records.html
> nazi posters claiming they had at antifascists on their toes. also NF claiming 200 there which has yet to be substantiated by 'independent sources.' anyone got links? details?



There were certainly no more than 60 far right, most of whom were EDL/SDL/Infidels from across the North, the NF probably numbered around 10 or so of them, which is admittedly twice what they normally mobilise.


----------



## audiotech (Oct 30, 2011)

'Something paradoxical is emerging now - anti-semitic zionism'.
11 minutes in. Beware the false protectors of Europe.


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 30, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> Newcastle attack.
> http://twitpic.com/7888p0



Shouldn't have been hugging them then should they.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

http://russellpollard.wordpress.com...in-birmingham-tired-predictable-and-flagging/

english-defence-league-in-birmingham-tired-predictable-and-flagging


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

This thread thunders on though - what next i wonder?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

The next demo is smaller, Tommy goes down, and they fade away..... and then just stick ot mouthing off racist shit on facebook again.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

Like what they were before the give them loads of attention strategy?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

No idea, I only took up an intrest in them when they came to my town trying to beat people up and shout loads or Racist shit and tell me im not English anymore.... which i never was anyways...


----------



## Fingers (Oct 30, 2011)

demo report http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/birmingham-demo-report


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> No idea, I only took up an intrest in them when they came to my town trying to beat people up and shout loads or Racist shit and tell me im not English anymore.... which i never was anyways...


Well there you go - history is worth looking at. Now,if that attention giving worked after **** for the EDL,what is this thread about?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm sure this thread means diffrent things to diffrent people.

im having pizza now anyway


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

If giving them attention made them grow,what is this thread?


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 30, 2011)

There's a massive view to posting ratio...


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> If giving them attention made them grow,what is this thread?



Is what you mean now, it's best we just ignore stuff and stuff will just go away yeah?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> There's a massive view to posting ratio...


I wonder why?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Is what you mean now, it's best we just ignore stuff and stuff will just go away yeah?



I argued that at the start of this they would die if left alone, as other similar ventures had done over the last decade. What brought them to life was attention of the sort of bollocks on this thread.  But you didn't,and you helped make this.Your time would have been better spent elsewhere.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I wonder why?



Because certain individuals are relishing their fifteen minutes of fame.


----------



## manny-p (Oct 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I argued that at the start of this they would die if left alone, as other similar ventures had done over the last decade. What brought them to life was attention of the sort of bollocks on this thread. *But you didn't,and you helped make this*.Your time would have been better spent elsewhere.


This thread helped the EDL grow?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

So if we delete every thread and thing about the EDL on the internet then they will disapear.... seems like effort.


----------



## dylans (Oct 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I argued that at the start of this they would die if left alone, as other similar ventures had done over the last decade. What brought them to life was attention of the sort of bollocks on this thread. But you didn't,and you helped make this.Your time would have been better spent elsewhere.


Easy for you to say, they are not running amok down your street calling your mom a p**i and smashing your shop windows. I am no fan of the UAF but the idea that minority communities should just ignore violent racist thugs demonstrating outside their front doors is just stupid


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

Ever time someone posts in this thread someone joins the EDL


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 30, 2011)

Publicity will grow them, yes. Like the BBC giving Griffin a platform serves to swell his ranks. The existence of this thread can't be seen outside of that context. But then do we just not discuss them?


----------



## manny-p (Oct 30, 2011)

edit-wrong end of the stick


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 30, 2011)

Do we not discuss any far right groups any more.


----------



## manny-p (Oct 30, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Do we not discuss any far right groups any more.



I don't think that not posting stuff on the internet/them getting media attention etc is going to put an end to the growth in the far right/nationalist movements. I think the economic conditions on the ground/on the street will always be the real catalyst.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

dylans said:


> Easy for you to say, they are not running amok down your street calling your mom a p**i and smashing your shop windows. I am no fan of the UAF but the idea that minority communities should just ignore violent racist thugs demonstrating outside their front doors is just stupid


They weren't doing that before luton.They're not doing it now. Dylans speaks as a booster.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Ever time someone posts in this thread someone joins the EDL


The suggestion is that the hysterical reactions on here mirror the UAF reactions in real life .


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

i'm confused now, can we talk about the EDL or not? or can we only talk about them in the way you like?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> i'm confused now, can we talk about the EDL or not? or can we only talk about them in the way you like?


Talk about them anyway you like bob. All safe now,all over. Night night


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)




----------



## dylans (Oct 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> They weren't doing that before luton.They're not doing it now. Dylans speaks as a booster.


Except in Dudley and Leicester and Stoke on Trent and Harrow and Birmingham etc etc. Of course they were doing exactly that. Why do you think they make a point of demonstrating in Muslim communities and what do you think their intentions are when they get the slightest opportunity?


----------



## treelover (Oct 30, 2011)

maybe they are not going away, Demos for some reason have done an online survey of its 'members' on facebook, its very revealing and maybe their support is harder than people think, they just don't march...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/30/edl-heart-facebook


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 30, 2011)

treelover said:


> maybe they are not going away, Demos for some reason have done an online survey of its 'members' on facebook, its very revealing and maybe their support is harder than people think, they just don't march...
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/30/edl-heart-facebook



I recall that survey being done about 6 weeks ago. The CiF is piece is not as bad as I feared, I suspected it was a bit of a phoney left front for justifying a contrarian stance that does appear in the last sentence:

"it is worth trying to understand and respond to some of the concerns of this small army of virtual supporters, because that could easily change." - which could well be to say: "Labour (to whom Demos are most loyal) should continue to wibble on about immigration, using the threat of fascism as an excuse for doing so. There might yet be more votes to gain than lose"

I could be wrong about that, but it is a pretty strong suspicion. Much of the rest of the piece is good though. I would observe that anyone who could even be arsed to do an online survey is a bit self selecting and more active than random keyboard warriors.


----------



## Corax (Oct 30, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


Why is that bicycle going backwards?  

What we need, is a _codeword_ for the EDL, that only _we_ know.  I suggest that fully inducted U75 members make proposals in the secret forum.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2011)

I filled that survey in


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 31, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Their logo was the Trojan Records helmet over a union flag, it was all pro-British/monarchy pride, including pride in seventies multi culuralism and trade unionism with commonwealth coloureds up to the seventies welcome, no further immigration except Ghurkhas etc and Muslims knowing their place.



They also had policies for creating jobs by revitalising British manufacturing with a protectionist policy taxing imports and a buy local buy British campaign. They advocated the occupation of businesses who 'lost' contracts or were outsourced abroad and the setting up of new worker/shareholder co-ops.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

dylans said:


> Except in Dudley and Leicester and Stoke on Trent and Harrow and Birmingham etc etc. Of course they were doing exactly that. Why do you think they make a point of demonstrating in Muslim communities and what do you think their intentions are when they get the slightest opportunity?


Er, they weren't.  Your chronology and understanding of were they came from is fucked if you think that. Show me them existing and holding protests in   Dudley and Leicester and Stoke on Trent and Harrow and Birmingham etc before Luton.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Oct 31, 2011)

2007, Dudley


*<----2009 EDL astroturfed by CVF --->*

Jan 2010 Dudley


April 2010 Dudley


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Wow, this changes...everything


----------



## dylans (Oct 31, 2011)

> butchersapron,
> 
> Er, they weren't. Your chronology and understanding of were they came from is fucked if you think that. Show me them existing and holding protests in Dudley and Leicester and Stoke on Trent and Harrow and Birmingham etc before Luton.​



Your simply wrong. The chronology is as follows

8 August 2009 Birmingham. ..result violent disorder in town centre.
9 September 2009 Birmingham . result violent disorder and 45 arrests
23rd January 2010 Stoke on Trent. Several arrests for violent disorder and assaulting police officers
9 October 2010 Leicester. result violent disorder including 2 protestors and a cop hospitalised and shops and indian restaurants damaged. One EDL supporter convicted of criminal damage.
3rd April 2010 Dudley. Violent disorder and attempted attack on a mosque. Several arrests including possession of offensive weapons. Following days witnessed a racist attack on a mosque when a pigs head was placed on the roof.
1st May 2010 Aylesbury. several arrests including possession of offensive weapons.

13 December 2010 Harrow. Mosque surrounded and defended by local community and UAF.

5th February 2011 LUTON.

There were loads more in between those listed but I have made my point. The EDL are a violent physical force fascist movement that deliberately seek to intimidate Asian communities and have done precisely that every time they have had the chance. The idea that these communities should just ignore them and hope they go away is just stupid


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

dylans said:


> Your simply wrong. The chronology is as follows
> 
> 8 August 2009 Birmingham. ..result violent disorder in town centre.
> 9 September 2009 Birmingham . result violent disorder and 45 arrests
> ...



No, you are simply wrong. Before all these events was the luton anti-soldier protest and response. Then in the gap between then and brum you and other goons put the wind to their sails (as was pointed out at that time). Enjoy.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

Tommy got a new house out if it anyways.


----------



## dylans (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> No, you are simply wrong. Before all these events was the luton anti-soldier protest and response. Then in the gap between then and brum you and other goons put the wind to their sails (as was pointed out at that time). Enjoy.


The anti soldier protest by Al Muhajiroun was in March 2009, the EDL didn't exist then, they were formed out of the United Peoples of Luton which itself was born in response to the original soldier protest. The first Luton demonstration was in June 2009 and it was out of that that the EDL was born. You claimed that the EDL have no history of violence I have just shown you that this is untrue. Of course they had no history of violence before the original soldiers demonstration, they had no history at all because they didn't exist.
My argument is very simple. That the EDL have a history of violent attacks on Muslim communities, that they organise for such attacks and target such communities for their demonstrations for precisely that reason. It is therefore patently absurd for you to claim that those communities should simply ignore them and hope they go away.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

dylans said:


> The anti soldier protest by Al Muhajiroun was in March 2009, the EDL didn't exist then, they were formed out of the United Peoples of Luton which itself was born in response to the original soldier protest. The first Luton demonstration was in June 2009 and it was out of that that the EDL was born. You claimed that the EDL have no history of violence I have just shown you that this is untrue. Of course they had no history of violence before the original soldiers demonstration, they had no history at all because they didn't exist



I claimed no such thing - that's a shocking twist of my words.

The EDL were born out of the various responses in luton, responses which happened well before your chronology even begins. You simply got it wrong.

My claim (the real one) is that your and others hysterical reaction at that time did exactly what the EDL wanted,you did the only thing that would have allowed them to live, you facilitated what pathetic violence they're managed to produce. As we told you at the time.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

dylans said:
			
		

> You claimed that the EDL have no history of violence



Seriously, wtf is wrong with you to post this?


----------



## dylans (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I claimed no such thing - that's a shocking twist of my words.
> 
> The EDL were born out of the various responses in luton, responses which happened well before your chronology even begins. You simply got it wrong. My claim is that your and others hysterical reaction at that time did exactly what the EDL wanted,you did the only thing that would have allowed them to live, you facilitated what pathetic violence they're managed to produce. As we told you at the time.


I said



> _Easy for you to say, they are not running amok down your street calling your mom a p**i and smashing your shop windows. I am no fan of the UAF but the idea that minority communities should just ignore violent racist thugs demonstrating outside their front doors is just stupid_



To which you replied



> _They weren't doing that before luton.*They're not doing it now.*_



To which I pointed out that the last Luton demonstration was on the 5th February 2011 and that they have very much been doing precisely that on every demonstration where the opportunity presents itself. Your statement that they were not doing that before the original soldiers march in Luton makes no sense because they didn't exist then so der, of course they weren't.


----------



## dylans (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Seriously, wtf is wrong with you to post this?


My intention is not to misrepresent you and if I have I apologise, but you are claiming that the EDL are not a threat to Muslim communities and are best ignored. That opposing them and counter demonstrating against them just gives them attention and feeds their growth. I disagree with this and have argued that for communities under attack by their thugs the option of ignoring them is not a luxury they can afford


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

dylans said:


> I said
> 
> To which you replied
> 
> To which I pointed out that the last Luton demonstration was on the 5th February 2011 and that they have very much been doing precisely that on every demonstration where the opportunity presents itself. Your statement that they were not doing that before the original soldiers march in Luton makes no sense because they didn't exist then so der, of course they weren't.


To which i replied correctly that they weren't doing that before luton ( which you dated wrongly by two years) and that they're not doing it now.They're not.There was an intervening period after luton where the hysterical responses of people like you and the UAF helped to allow the sort of violence you mention happen. My whole point was about your responses allowing the EDL to be violent,it rests on them being pathetically violent - and you read this as me arguing that they've never been violent. What to say to that?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I claimed no such thing - that's a shocking twist of my words.
> 
> The EDL were born out of the various responses in luton, responses which happened well before your chronology even begins. You simply got it wrong.
> 
> My claim (the real one) is that your and others hysterical reaction at that time did exactly what the EDL wanted,you did the only thing that would have allowed them to live, you facilitated what pathetic violence they're managed to produce. As we told you at the time.



You're talking some utter shite here. What evidence have you to suggest that the reaction to the United People's of Luton protest "put the wind in their sails" of the EDL? The publicity that we gave to the EDL by discussing how to oppose them is next to nothing compared to the publicity and promotion right-wing newspapers and other media gave to them, is that our fault too? Even if we'd have all self-consciously ignored and downplayed any mention of those events, I still believe the EDL would've been formed regardless. I think the growth of the organization was down to the realisation amongst many that the electoral strategy of the BNP was failing, after all Kev Carroll, Chris Renton and Stephen Lennon are all ex BNP actvists, so many decided to return to the streets, and secondly because of the funding that the likes of Alan Lake and the Centre for Vigilant Justice gave to them in the period between Brum and Manchester demos, quite early on in their formation. Absolutely nothing we have said or done would've made any difference to this sequence of events, so I'm totally perplexed by the stuff you're coming out with.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

dylans said:


> My intention is not to misrepresent you and if I have I apologise, but you are claiming that the EDL are not a threat to Muslim communities and are best ignored. That opposing them and counter demonstrating against them just gives them attention and feeds their growth. I disagree with this and have argued that for communities under attack by their thugs the option of ignoring them is not a luxury they can afford



I have claimed no such thing - again.I've argued that the response that you favour is the best gift anyone can give them. I've not said that they shouldn't be 'confronted' by locals. I've argued, and have done since Luton, that bussing in lefties to counte-protests and spending the time inbetween by whipping up hysteria about pogroms is counter-productive and gives them exactly what they want.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

this thread made the EDL FACT


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> You're talking some utter shite here. What evidence have you to suggest that the reaction to the United People's of Luton protest "put the wind in their sails" of the EDL? The publicity that we gave to the EDL by discussing how to oppose them is next to nothing compared to the publicity and promotion right-wing newspapers and other media gave to them, is that our fault too? Even if we'd have all self-consciously ignored and downplayed any mention of those events, I still believe the EDL would've been formed regardless. I think the growth of the organization was down to the realisation amongst many that the electoral strategy of the BNP was failing, after all Kev Carroll, Chris Renton and Stephen Lennon are all ex BNP actvists, so many decided to return to the streets, and secondly because of the funding that the likes of Alan Lake and the Centre for Vigilant Justice gave to them in the period between Brum and Manchester demos, quite early on in their formation. Absolutely nothing we have said or done would've made any difference to this sequence of events, so I'm totally perplexed by the stuff you're coming out with.


What evidence do i have of their growth in that period? Well, their growth for starters. And their lack of growth in the prior period when failing to get the UBU and all that bollocks off the ground, when coincidentally, the left weren't talking about the white terror to come.

And no,the EDL was formed at the absolute highpoint of the BNP electoral strategy. You are genuinely perplexed aren't you?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> this thread made the EDL FACT


It's nothing to with this shit thread bob. People were talking about the possible fallouts of the responses to luton a year before this thread. It's to do with general real-life responses and their consequences. You know...politics.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What evidence do i have of their growth in that period?



No, that isn't what I asked you. try again.



Delroy Booth said:


> What evidence have you to suggest that the reaction to the United People's of Luton protest "put the wind in their sails" of the EDL?



I am asking you what evidence do you have that the left wing response to the EDL was responsible for their growth. For a start, to even accept such a concept, you have to give to the left a degree of influence far greater than they actually have.

As far as I'm concered the EDL would've formed regardless of our attempts to whip up "hysteria" against them. Also, the EDL may have formed at the high point of the BNP, but is it not the case it did not grow into what it is now until after the BNP had begun to self-destuct. Again, I'd suggest that the collapse of the BNP had a much greater infuence on their growth and organization than anything we ever did.


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It's nothing to with this shit thread bob. People were talking about the possible fallouts of the responses to luton a year before this thread. It's to do with general real-life responses and their consequences. You know...politics.



Make your fucking mind up yesterday i made the EDL becuase i posted in this thread.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> No, that isn't what I asked you. try again.
> 
> I am asking you what evidence do you have that the left wing response to the EDL was responsible for their growth. For a start, to even accept such a concept, you have to give to the left a degree of influence far greater than they actually have.
> 
> As far as I'm concered the EDL would've formed regardless of our attempts to whip up "hysteria" against them. Also, the EDL may have formed at the high point of the BNP, but is it not the case it did not grow into what it is now until after the BNP had begun to self-destuct. Again, I'd suggest that the collapse of the BNP had a much greater infuence on their growth and organization than anything we ever did.



Make your mind up delroy. Are you talking about them being formed or their growth post-luton? Themm being formed was the latest in a long line of failed attempts dating back to the immediate month after 9/11. Them being formed is irrelevant as these people were trying for donkeys years before. What is relevant is why _this_ attempt stuck, and that's -  at least in part - because the UAF (abetted by people like you) whipped up a hysteria that allowed the EDL to draw together a bunch of people who wanted a ruck, to draw together the EDL, to _make_ the EDL. You gave them everything they could ever have wished for. And today you do secret squirrel on facebook


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Make your fucking mind up yesterday i made the EDL becuase i posted in this thread.


Did i bob? Did i?


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

yeah was like after i had my Pizza or something, then you got all shitty about it and went to bed, fair dos you said like night night and stuff.... but it's not like how it used to be, we never realy "talk" anymore... maybe we are just growing apart?


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

It's my birthday today bob, one last chance to sort it out...


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Here the orginal luton thread from may 2009 for anyone interested.


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## TruXta (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> It's my birthday today bob, one last chance to sort it out...



Really? In which case, happy birthday you old curmudgeon!


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Really? In which case, happy birthday you old curmudgeon!


Thank you truxta. But it ain't.


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## TruXta (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Thank you truxta. But it ain't.



Well fuck you then!


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Make your mind up delroy. Are you talking about them being formed or their growth post-luton? Themm being formed was the latest in a long line of failed attempts dating back to the immediate month after 9/11. Them being formed is irrelevant as these people were trying for donkeys years before. What is relevant is why _this_ attempt stuck, and that's - at least in part - because the UAF (abetted by people like you) whipped up a hysteria that allowed the EDL to draw together a bunch of people who wanted a ruck, to draw together the EDL, to _make_ the EDL. You gave them everything they could ever have wished for. And today you do secret squirrel on facebook



I'm talking about their growth post-Luton. You're asking some good questions, why exactly did this attempt stick where others have failed, but your answers are a joke. I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate to me a scrap of evidence that it was our response, rather than the other wider political factors that I and others here have mentioned, that was responsible for their growth.

In all honestly blaming the UAF for the growth of the EDL is the height of stupidity, and the only people I've ever met who've come out with such drivel are members of obscure left-wing sects whose motivation seems to be to attack the SWP at all costs, regardless of whether or not they've actually done anything wrong in this instance. I'm not saying that's you, I wouldn't presume your intent for a moment, but the company you are in when making this argument is revealing.

I think the first hurdle your theory falls down at is the for it to be right you'd have to massively overestimate the extent to which the UAF could effectively influence the wider public's response to the EDL. I remember helping to organize the counter-protest to the EDL in Bolton and Manchester for example, and when canvassing the overwhelming mood of the general public in both those places just prior to the EDL's arrival was not one of hysteria, but of ignorance and apathy. Another point where your theory fails is that you fail to put it into any context. Even if you were right, and the UAF's response to the EDL acted as a form of encouragement rather than deterrent, it is surely next to nothing compared to the impact the internal war in the BNP had, or the way in which they were subtly promoted by the Daily Mail and Telegraph, who gave them mainly uncritical blanket coverage from the initial Luton demo onwards.

Oh and btw I'm not in the UAF or SWP, they really don't like me at all as it happens, so lets get that one out of the way before it comes up, k?


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

I went to counter the EDL as me, and family, not as the UAF KLF or the MFI.....

as did many others.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I went to counter the EDL as me, and family, not as the UAF KLF or the MFI.....
> 
> as did many others.



Likewise me. And I don't remember going there because I was whipped up into a hysterical frenzy by someone either, I went because, on principle, I could no abide the idea of these fascist goons stomping about my city unchallenged. But, clearly, that attitude is the blame for their success.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I'm talking about their growth post-Luton. You're asking some good questions, why exactly did this attempt stick where others have failed, but your answers are a joke. I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate to me a scrap of evidence that it was our response, rather than the other wider political factors that I and others here have mentioned, that was responsible for their growth.
> 
> In all honestly blaming the UAF for the growth of the EDL is the height of stupidity, and the only people I've ever met who've come out with such drivel are members of obscure left-wing sects whose motivation seems to be to attack the SWP at all costs, regardless of whether or not they've actually done anything wrong in this instance. I'm not saying that's you, I wouldn't presume your intent for a moment, but the company you are in when making this argument is revealing.
> 
> ...



Right, one more time. The UAF and fellow travelers like you had a a range of possible responses post-luton. The one you chose helped the EDL - if they were growing because of objective conditions (you suggest this is the case but fail to say these other conditions were and how they worked) you _helped_ that growth by building them up into the sort of thing that young right-wingers should be involved with rather than the same old faces.

You also assume for some reason that i'm on about response from the general public to your response, i'm not - i'm on about the consolidating effects on the fractured far-right and soft racists. You helped bring the elements who had rejected the BNPs road together. This happened. You've spent the last two years documenting how the EDL brought together the far-right and sought to draw in wider parts of the community through a cultural based front. I dread tothiunk how mnay words you've wasted demonstrating this plain obvious fact - how many are you going to waste now denying it?


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Likewise me. And I don't remember going there because I was whipped up into a hysterical frenzy by someone either, I went because, on principle, I could no abide the idea of these fascist goons stomping about my city unchallenged. But, clearly, that attitude is the blame for their success.


Not all about you delroy, or you bob, or what motivated your individual opposition.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommy got a new house out if it anyways.


aye, but he wont be living in it for long bob!


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I argued that at the start of this they would die if left alone, as other similar ventures had done over the last decade. What brought them to life was attention of the sort of bollocks on this thread. But you didn't,and you helped make this.Your time would have been better spent elsewhere.


 
^ so i made the EDL grow yesterday but today it's not about me?  make your fucking mind up FFS.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> (you suggest this is the case but fail to say these other conditions were and how they worked)



Well try reading my posts again then coz I most certainly have.



butchersapron said:


> You helped bring the elements who had rejected the BNPs road together. This happened.



Again, for the third time, do you have any evidence whatsoever of this, or it just a theory that you hope if you repeat, ad nauseam, it will stick? What influence does UAF have on these "soft-racists" compared to the influence that the Daily Mail has, for example? Negligible to fuck all I think you'll find. And I when I refer to the wider public, I include soft-racists and anti-muslim bigots as part of that public, and it was a demographic that in my experience couldn't give a shit what the UAF think or do.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 31, 2011)

opposing the edl is not only because of them being racist, it is also because many people dont want fascist gangs marching thru their towns causing havoc and landing them with a large policing bill and generally pretending to speka for them. racism is only 1 part of fascism, the EDL are also anti occupy/anti cuts movement/student demos and union acitivism and some are pro-NF/BNP etc. see saturday in newcastle for more links. i oppose them not because im a 'muzzie lover' but because i am an antifascist.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Thank you truxta. But it ain't.



good job you confessed, i almost legged it to the kitchen to bake you a cake. any more false birthday claims and you're going on report butchers!


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Well try reading my posts again then coz I most certainly have.


 
Maybe i'm being slow then. Could you repeat them or  point me to them>



> Again, for the third time, do you have any evidence whatsoever of this, or it just a theory that you hope if you repeat, ad nauseam, it will stick? What influence does UAF have on these "soft-racists" compared to the influence that the Daily Mail has, for example? Negligible to fuck all I think you'll find. And I when I refer to the wider public, I include soft-racists and anti-muslim bigots as part of that public, and it was a demographic that in my experience couldn't give a shit what the UAF think or do.



What sort of evidence would you like? I can give you my impressions of what would happen if a particular path was taken under given conmftions and my predicted outcome happening. What harder evidence do you have? Could you have.

Well, the UAF was used as an easily identifiable thing _we're against _(regardless of knowledge of what they stand for). _Identity a few key enemies - _ABV of building a group and group solidarity. I have no idea why you mention the daily mail, are you suggesting that there's a wider culture which people produce and live in? Blimey, maybe, just maybe  that's the why the EDL obsession is so pointless and counter-productive? What you think?


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## frogwoman (Oct 31, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> opposing the edl is not only because of them being racist, it is also because many people dont want fascist gangs marching thru their towns causing havoc and landing them with a large policing bill and generally pretending to speka for them. racism is only 1 part of fascism, the EDL are also anti occupy/anti cuts movement/student demos and union acitivism and some are pro-NF/BNP etc. see saturday in newcastle for more links. i oppose them not because im a 'muzzie lover' but because i am an antifascist.



i think the point that butchers is getting at isn't that locals shouldnt oppose the fash, or that they aren't violent etc. It's that the UAF etc through their responses and through the playing up of the threat (when there had been many such attempts at creating an EDL type movement previously) helped to give the EDL more publicity, as well as giving them a "threat" to oppose directly. A threat which was seen as coming into the communities to oppose them, rather than coming from those communities iyswim.

I would also add that the obsession with revealing the BNP etc's "nazi links" led directly to a fash group like the EDL which consciously distanced itself from neo-Nazism (or tried to, anyway) and adopted zionism, and even tried to recruit among Sikh etc communities, with some success.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> opposing the edl is not only because of them being racist, it is also because many people dont want fascist gangs marching thru their towns causing havoc and landing them with a large policing bill and generally pretending to speka for them. racism is only 1 part of fascism, the EDL are also anti occupy/anti cuts movement/student demos and union acitivism and some are pro-NF/BNP etc. see saturday in newcastle for more links. i oppose them not because im a 'muzzie lover' but because i am an antifascist.


Fucking right - and with that there's a militant responsibility to think about how your opposition impacts on more people than yourself. A responsibility to think tactically, to think critically and not to cheerlead. The argument is not over whether to oppose the EDL or not but how and why.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Maybe i'm being slow then. Could you repeat them or point me to them>



Slow, or just deliberately obtuse? So far I've mentioned

- Internal fighting in the BNP leading to many key activists leaving and giving up on electoral politics altogether
- Huge publicity from the right-wing media and tabloid press
- Large amounts of money from Alan Lake et al

These are just straight off the top of my head, I'm not even touching the more complex socio-economic and cultural reasons that people may have for wanting to join the EDL.



butchersapron said:


> What sort of evidence would you like?



Any at all would do.



butchersapron said:


> I can give you my impressions of what would happen if a particular path was taken under given conmftions and my predicted outcome happening. What harder evidence do you have? Could you have.



There's a big difference between correlation and causality.



butchersapron said:


> Well, the UAF was used as an easily identifiable thing _we're against _(regardless of knowledge of what they stand for). _Identity a few key enemies - _ABV of building a group and group solidarity. I have no idea why you mention the daily mail, are you suggesting that there's a wider culture which people produce and live in? Blimey, maybe, just maybe that's the why the EDL obsession is so pointless and counter-productive? What you think?



So if the UAF had completely neglected to mention the EDL, would that have stopped them from growing? Would that have prevented the Daily Mail from pumping out articles about them? Did the presense of the UAF give the EDL their required enemy, and had they not opposed them the EDL would have no reason to attack muslims? No, it wouldn't.

Incidentally at the time of the United People's of Luton march I was arguing exactly what you're arguing now, that if you ignore them they'll go away, don't give them the oxygen of publicity etc. It was only when it became painfully obvious they weren't just going to fizzle out like all the other right-wing sects over the last few years that I really started to take them more seriously. Furthermore I know plenty in the UAF and anti-fascist movement who shared my line of thinking at the time. The Manchester demo was a big benchmark here. After that any idea that by ignoring them we could wait for them to disappear became redundant.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Slow, or just deliberately obtuse? So far I've mentioned
> 
> - Internal fighting in the BNP leading to many key activists leaving and giving up on electoral politics altogether
> - Huge publicity from the right-wing media and tabloid press
> ...



That's what i asked you for though and what you said that you had already provided.No these nothing reasons  And your chronology is shot to fuck-the BNP were not split as now in  may 2009, they were at the height of their strength. There was and remains very little mainstream media or tabloid coverage and what there was came very late, this year in fact. Odd that you would argue that media coverage helped build the EDL whilst arguing that your own media coverage did not. Can you square that circle delroy? I'm not even going to bother with the idea that a nutty businessman can conjure up a set of polticalideas with bodies behind it by clicking his fingers.Grow up.



> Any at all would do.



All we have is what happened.What more could there be? You've not given what your counter-evidence yet.What could it be?



> So if the UAF had completely neglected to mention the EDL, would that have stopped them from growing? Would that have prevented the Daily Mail from pumping out articles about them? Did the presense of the UAF give the EDL their required enemy, and had they not opposed them the EDL would have no reason to attack muslims? No, it wouldn't.
> 
> Incidentally at the time of the United People's of Luton march I was arguing exactly what you're arguing now, that if you ignore them they'll go away, don't give them the oxygen of publicity etc. It was only when it became painfully obvious they were just going to fizzle out like all the other right-wing sects over the last few years that I really started to take them more seriously. Furthermore I know plenty in the UAF and anti-fascist movement who shared my line of thinking at the time. The Manchester demo was a big benchmark here. After that any idea that by ignoring them we could wait for them to disappear became redundant.



I didn't say that. What's wrong with you?I said that the UAF response helped the growth of the EDL - it gave them easy group solidarity and  the veneer of real politics. Again with the daily mail,and again with ignoring the point that this means that EDL 'activists' live and produce a non-edl world. Tackle that world,the conditions that produce the EDL.

Incidentally, you've just proven my point.


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

so was it me or the UAF im still confused?


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

delroy said:
			
		

> the UAF and anti-fascist movement


What's this btw? Who do you mean and who argued this? Did their arguments win the day?


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

you said i made the EDL grow, not you are saying the UAF did it.....

so im confused like init blud.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That's what i asked you for though and what you said that you had already provided.No these nothing reasons And your chronology is shot to fuck-the BNP were not split as now in may 2009.



Oh yes they fucking were! I even remember being at a debate in about August 2009 where the main topic we discussed was "are the BNP turning into the EDL" and during that debate all the internal squabbles that were going on in the BNP were discussed as one of the reasons why the EDL was gaining support. These splits, which are now reaching their peak, were _years_ in the making. They did not just suddenly come about after the General Election y'know. Everyone in the anti-fascist movement I knew was well aware that Griffin was looting his parties treasury, and we knew it then I'm betting more intelligent and politically aware BNP members would also have known it. Just because they had a small measure of electoral success during this period does not mean they were any less of a dysfunctional party full of cranks and nutters. For example, the business with Jim Dowson and all that money that was owed for printing was going on long before the United People's of Luton march, as was documented by Searchlight at the time. And don't you remember the big split that happened in the North West just before this? They were calling themselves the Real BNP for a while, and loads of really entertaining blogs were popping up accusing Nick Griffin of allsorts of stuff. Incidentally this is where those hilarious pictures of Martyn Reynolds shagging those two horrorbags originate from.



butchersapron said:


> Odd that you would argue that media coverage helped build the EDL whilst arguing that your own media coverage did not. Can you square that circle delroy?



Easily. The Daily Mail has a circulation of 3,000,000+ which puts it in an entirely different league to "our media" which, funnily enough, you didn't specify. Are you seriously suggesting that Socialist Worker played a more significant role in the development of the EDL than the Daily Mail? If the vast majority of anti-fascists are indifferent to the views of the SWP on this issue then why exactly would the fash give a shit? Also, what exactly counts ss "our media" and how does it compare in terms of power and influence to Lord Rothermere's hate-rag? The idea that the United Peoples of Luton march got little or no media coverage is delusion. There was even a segment on Charlie Brooker's Screenwipe dedicated to analyzing the coverage of that event. It was a massive news story and I remember it at the time.



butchersapron said:


> I didn't say that. What's wrong with you?I said that the UAF response helped the growth of the EDL - it gave them easy group solidarity and the veneer of real politics. Again with the daily mail,and again with ignoring the point that this means that EDL 'activists' live and produce a non-edl world. Tackle that world,the conditions that produce the EDL.
> 
> Incidentally, you've just proven my point.



You're getting a bit incoherent now, clinging onto this position despite it being utterly indefensible. The UAF response, even if it did provide them with a sense of easy group solidarity, did little or nothing at all in the grand scheme of things to promote their. I also think that even if the UAD didn't exist, they'd just find any kind of left-wing group and use them as a scapegoat. I also think that their "group solidiarity" is far easier to attribute to the loyalties that exists within hooligan "firms" than it does with commonly opposing the UAF.

Now, you're getting tiresome, and either come to me with some proper evidence, of any kind, that the UAF did anything to encourage the EDL, beyond just repetitive theorising, and I'll reply to it, but otherwise this conversation is over.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 31, 2011)

Latest 'Malatesta' - The Last Gasp of the EDL?
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/the-last-gasp-of-the-edl/


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> Latest 'Malatesta' - The Last Gasp of the EDL?
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/the-last-gasp-of-the-edl/



Not if we keep posting in this thread it's not


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Oh yes they fucking were! I even remember being at a debate in about August 2009 where the main topic we discussed was "are the BNP turning into the EDL" and during that debate all the internal squabbles that were going on in the BNP were discussed as one of the reasons why the EDL was gaining support. These splits, which are now reaching their peak, were _years_ in the making. They did not just suddenly come about after the General Election y'know. Everyone in the anti-fascist movement I knew was well aware that Griffin was looting his parties treasury, and we knew it the more intelligent and politically aware BNP members would also have known it. Just because they had a small measure of electoral success during this period does not mean they were any less of a dysfunctional party full of cranks and nutters. For example, the business with Jim Dowson and all that money that was owed for printing was going on long before the United People's of Luton march, as was documented by Searchlight at the time.



In the anti-fascist imagination the BNP have always been splitting.May 2009 to july 2009 was the absolute high point of BNP unity. Those who wanted to do street stuff had been expelled, excluded or been made politically irrelevant 5 years before this. There was no leaving of the party in disgust into the EDL and street movements. There was the opposite, street fighers (want to be) were flocking _into_ the BNP. The printing stuff came out of Griffins general election campaign in Barking in 2010. You're just wrong here.



> Easily. The Daily Mail has a circulation of 3,000,000+ which puts it in an entirely different league to "our media" which, funnily enough, you didn't specify. Are you seriously suggesting that Socialist Worker played a more significant role in the development of the EDL than the Daily Mail? If the vast majority of anti-fascists are indifferent to the views of the SWP on this issue then why exactly would the fash give a shit? Also, what exactly counts ss "our media" and how does it compare in terms of power and influence to Lord Rothermere's hate-rag? The idea that the United Peoples of Luton march got little or no media coverage is delusion. There was even a segment on Charlie Brooker's Screenwipe dedicated to analyzing the coverage of that event. It was a massive news story and I remember it at the time.



I do like these sort of questions "are you suggesting *insert daft scenario here* ? Yes i am delroy, yes i am. Right,first off,if you think the edl reads the mail you're wrong, if you think people do what the papers say then you're wrong, if you think the mail gave or gives a shit about the EDL then you're wrong, if you think that the culture that people produce and live in is quite important then you, for once, are right.Which is why this EDL obsession is so pointless.  Well done on the Daily mail as a haterag and charlie brooker in the same para. It's quite nice heben isn'tit?



> You're getting a bit incoherent now, clinging onto this position despite it being utterly indefensible. The UAF response, even if it did provide them with a sense of easy group solidarity, did little or nothing at all in the grand scheme of things to promote their. I also think that even if the UAD didn't exist, they'd just find any kind of left-wing group and use them as a scapegoat. I also think that their "group solidiarity" is far easier to attribute to the loyalties that exists within hooligan "firms" than it does with commonly opposing the UAF.
> 
> Now, you're getting tiresome, and either come to me with some proper evidence, of any kind, that the UAF did anything to encourage the EDL, beyond just repetitive theorising, and I'll reply to it, but otherwise this conversation is over.



Incoherent?  Come on, do you want a political argument or not?


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Stop answering me!


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> In the anti-fascist imagination the BNP have always been splitting.May 2009 to july 2009 was the absolute high point of BNP unity. Those who wanted to do street stuff had been expelled, excluded or been made politically irrelevant 5 years before this. There was no leaving of the party in disgust into the EDL and street movements. There was the opposite, street fighers (want to be) were flocking _into_ the BNP. The printing stuff came out of Griffins general election campaign in Barking in 2010. You're just wrong here.



Just for clarification, the Euro elections in 2009 was when i first became aware of the printing stuff, although it had been going on much longer before hand. The appointment of Clive Jefferson as treasurer was purely to stop this from getting out, so concerned were they by it. it didn't get huge prominence until after Barking but I assure you this was all going on long before the EDL had formed. It was going on before even Jim Dowson had got involved aswell. And yes there was a steady stream of activists leaving the BNP because they were smart enough to see where it was all heading, Stephen Lennon being one of them, but there were plenty of others. I saw it with my own eyes, the number of ex-BNP who turned out in Manchester, Leeds and Bolton was very high, I spent the whole day going "fuck me, it's so-and-so, he used to be regional organiser" there were that many of them. Fucking hell we used to pay people in the BNP for information about stuff like this, going right back to about 2006, and it was clear for all to see these fault-lines were ready to go as soon as the parties momentum faltered. so it's pretty funny when you try saying it didn't happen!

I don't know who you are or what you do in terms of anti-fascism, but if your seriously suggesting that if we had done nothing the EDL would've just fizzled out then you're kidding yourself, furthermore if you're advocating that we today ought to ignore them and hope they go away then your counsel simply isn't needed. If that's how you feel then you're better off away from anti-fascism altogether.


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

yeah


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Just for clarification, the Euro elections in 2009 was when i first became aware of the printing stuff, although it had been going on much longer before hand. The appointment of Clive Jefferson as treasurer was purely to stop this from getting out, so concerned were they by it. it didn't get huge prominence until after Barking but I assure you this was all going on long before the EDL had formed. It was going on before even Jim Dowson had got involved aswell. And yes there was a steady stream of activists leaving the BNP because they were smart enough to see where it was all heading, Stephen Lennon being one of them, but there were plenty of others. I saw it with my own eyes, the number of ex-BNP who turned out in Manchester, Leeds and Bolton was very high, I spent the whole day going "fuck me, it's so-and-so, he used to be regional organiser" there were that many of them. Fucking hell we used to pay people in the BNP for information about stuff like this, going right back to about 2006, and it was clear for all to see these fault-lines were ready to go as soon as the parties momentum faltered. so it's pretty funny when you try saying it didn't happen!
> 
> I don't know who you are or what you do in terms of anti-fascism, but if your seriously suggesting that if we had done nothing the EDL would've just fizzled out then you're kidding yourself, furthermore if you're advocating that we today ought to ignore them and hope they go away then your counsel simply isn't needed. If that's how you feel then you're better off away from anti-fascism altogether.


When you say became aware of you mean read it in searchlight don't you? Clive Jefferson became treasurer last year not in 2009. Is this the sort of info that you 'paid for'?

Lennon was never anything in the BNP, none of the people who became the EDL centre meant anything in the BNP -they were not even on the radar.And yes,the far right turn out for far right rallies._You'll never believe how many lefties i saw on that lefty demo._

I suggest that you read the posts that you're replying to - the ones that lay out my argument rather than the easily dismissed fantasy that you'd like them to be. _Stay away from anti-fascism_  I love you people.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 31, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> i think the point that butchers is getting at isn't that locals shouldnt oppose the fash, or that they aren't violent etc. It's that the UAF etc through their responses and through the playing up of the threat (when there had been many such attempts at creating an EDL type movement previously) helped to give the EDL more publicity, as well as giving them a "threat" to oppose directly. A threat which was seen as coming into the communities to oppose them, rather than coming from those communities iyswim.
> 
> I would also add that the obsession with revealing the BNP etc's "nazi links" led directly to a fash group like the EDL which consciously distanced itself from neo-Nazism (or tried to, anyway) and adopted zionism, and even tried to recruit among Sikh etc communities, with some success.



frogs, i think with the UAF there is the 'searchlight job creation' aspect too (likewise plod and MI5 amplifying 'political threats' to gullible MPs). the professional antifascist is on a salary as opposed to militant antifascists doing what we can in our spare time. i am sure larry o hara would have something to say on this as he is spot on with gable and C18 (in turning up the heat etc). you out there lar?


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> When you say became aware of you mean read it in searchlight don't you? Clive Jefferson became treasurer last year not in 2009. Is this the sort of info that you 'paid for'?



I didn't say that he did! I said that he was appointed to attempt to cover up these kinds of things that had been going on previously, it was done as a result of the internal bickering about BNP finances that had been going on at the time. Remember that picture of Nick Griffin's jacuzzi that one of their disgruntled members put on that blog? They all knew that Griffin was on the rob, even back then, and a lot of their more competent activsts left during this period, even despite their electoral successes. Mark Collett was another one, he was robbing 'em blind going way back, his penchant for fine dining and his BMW was greatly resented by the membership of Leeds BNP, and many left the party due to the cronyism that led to him being put in that position.



butchersapron said:


> Lennon was never anything in the BNP, none of the people who became the EDL centre meant anything in the BNP -they were not even on the radar.And yes,the far right turn out for far right rallies._You'll never believe how many lefties i saw on that lefty demo._



Lennon himself wasn't anything much, although nothing is overstating it, after all even the BNP's membership list had him down as an activist, rather than just a lay member. He was an active BNP member, along with many others now in the EDL. That's the point I'm trying to make.



butchersapron said:


> I suggest that you read the posts that you're replying to - the ones that lay out my argument rather than the easily dismissed fantasy that you'd like them to be. _Stay away from anti-fascism_  I love you people.



Stay away from anti-fascism please, telling people to do nothing in the face of the EDL is really a lot more damaging. We need unity, and we need concerted action, not this muddle-headed cowardly "leave them alone and they'll just stop hating muslims" shtick that you're pushing here.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I didn't say that he did! I said that he was appointed to attempt to cover up these kinds of things that had been going on previously, it was done as a result of the internal bickering about BNP finances that had been going on at the time. Remember that picture of Nick Griffin's jacuzzi that one of their disgruntled members put on that blog? They all knew that Griffin was on the rob, even back then, and a lot of their more competent activsts left during this period, even despite their electoral successes. Mark Collett was another one, he was robbing 'em blind going way back, his penchant for fine dining and his BMW was greatly resented by the membership of Leeds BNP, and many left the party due to the cronyism that led to him being put in that position.


You kn ow the problem with taking right-wing competitors views as gospel don't you? Maybe not,the EDL gossip suggests that you don't. How many of this stram of competent activists joined the EDL? Name them.



> Lennon himself wasn't anything much, although nothing is overstating it, after all even the BNP's membership list had him down as an activist, rather than just a lay member. He was an active BNP member, along with many others now in the EDL. That's the point I'm trying to make.


 So name the at least mid level people BNP who went into the EDL. (*wants*: a geuine answer.*Gets*: a load of fat cunts with shit tats) [/quote]



> Stay away from anti-fascism please, telling people to do nothing in the face of the EDL is really a lot more damaging. We need unity, and we need concerted action, not this muddle-headed cowardly "leave them alone and they'll just stop hating muslims" shtick that you're pushing here.



You are a genius.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Fucking right - and with that there's a militant responsibility to think about how your opposition impacts on more people than yourself. A responsibility to think tactically, to think critically and not to cheerlead. The argument is not over whether to oppose the EDL or not but how and why.



i think turning up to oppose them when they arrive in yr town and simultaneously countering their lies when and wherever possible is a good start. it saps their morale when opponents massively outnumber them and acts almost as good as a slap. expose their lies: being racists/fascists was exposed constantly; against extremism? no against muslims as shown by all the racist chanting that was recorded and insults they posted on the net; not BNP? tommy never mentioned the photo of him and edmonds but it dented their not-BNP stance; peaceful protest - hardly, their violence and arrests on and off demos is well publicised by mainstream and alt media; all the racist outbursts and infighting on facebook and elsewhere are well documented on various sites.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Who is this 'we' delroy?


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## frogwoman (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I didn't say that he did! I said that he was appointed to attempt to cover up these kinds of things that had been going on previously, it was done as a result of the internal bickering about BNP finances that had been going on at the time. Remember that picture of Nick Griffin's jacuzzi that one of their disgruntled members put on that blog? They all knew that Griffin was on the rob, even back then, and a lot of their more competent activsts left during this period, even despite their electoral successes. Mark Collett was another one, he was robbing 'em blind going way back, his penchant for fine dining and his BMW was greatly resented by the membership of Leeds BNP, and many left the party due to the cronyism that led to him being put in that position.
> 
> Lennon himself wasn't anything much, although nothing is overstating it, after all even the BNP's membership list had him down as an activist, rather than just a lay member. He was an active BNP member, along with many others now in the EDL. That's the point I'm trying to make.
> 
> Stay away from anti-fascism please, telling people to do nothing in the face of the EDL is really a lot more damaging. We need unity, and we need concerted action, not this muddle-headed cowardly "leave them alone and they'll just stop hating muslims" shtick that you're pushing here.



Why is "unity" with the people who help to create the conditions for the far right and fascism to develop important to prevent the growth of fascism?


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You kn ow the problem with taking right-wing competitors views as gospel don't you? Maybe not,the EDL gossip suggests that you don't. How many of this stram of competent activists joined the EDL? Name them.



No. Firstly, coz funnily enough I don't have extensive lists of them, and secondly because I can't be arsed, it's immaterial. If you're interested though, Oldham and Rochdale BNP branches were out in force in Manchester, along with a fair few from Salford who have since left. I don't think Oldham's even got a functioning BNP branch anymore.



butchersapron said:


> You are a genius.


 
You are the one blaming the growth of the EDL on the UAF. Is there an synonym for stupid than can describe this idea properly?


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> i think turning up to oppose them when they arrive in yr town and simultaneously countering their lies when and wherever possible is a good start. it saps their morale when opponents massively outnumber them and acts almost as good as a slap. expose their lies: being racists/fascists was exposed constantly; against extremism? no against muslims as shown by all the racist chanting that was recorded and insults they posted on the net; not BNP? tommy never mentioned the photo of him and edmonds but it dented their not-BNP stance; peaceful protest - hardly, their violence and arrests on and off demos is well publicised by mainstream and alt media; all the racist outbursts and infighting on facebook and elsewhere are well documented on various sites.



Is turning them into something that they're not and no power of becoming a good start? Is obsession a good start? If so where does it end? People running around on facebook copying screengrabs. Shit mobile phone vids of fuck all. This isn't anti-fascism. Give it up.

You say your town,not my town.There's a difference there isn't there?  How did the UAF do it? Did they bus people to other towns? I can oppose shit without becoming obsessed by it. The only people slapping the EDL after brum is the police.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Why is "unity" with the people who help to create the conditions for the far right and fascism to develop important to prevent the growth of fascism?



Who do you mean by the people who help to create the conditions for the far right and fascism to develop?


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## frogwoman (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Who do you mean by the people who help to create the conditions for the far right and fascism to develop?



"anyone but the bnp" leaflets at election time, having david cameron and various tories and nu-labourites on your list of signatories, etc


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> No. Firstly, coz funnily enough I don't have extensive lists of them, and secondly because I can't be arsed, it's immaterial. If you're interested though, Oldham and Rochdale BNP branches were out in force in Manchester, along with a fair few from Salford who have since left. I don't think Oldham's even got a functioning BNP branch anymore.



You demand, post after post, that i provide evidence yet you 'can't be arsed'? Wow,so a few far right people went to the sort of far right event that far right people go to and this is evidence of competent BNP activists leaving for the EDL? Beef your argument up.


> You are the one blaming the growth of the EDL on the UAF. Is there an synonym for stupid than can describe this idea properly?



Lat para:closely argued as ever delroy.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> "anyone but the bnp" leaflets at election time, having david cameron and various tories and nu-labourites on your list of signatories, etc



Yeah well you've just listed a load reasons the UAF are absolute shit, and reason I dont see eye-to-eye with them on these matters. Does that mean that I shouldn't be prepared to work with the UAF when needs be? In fairness they've grassed me up to the police before now, you don't need to tell me what they're like.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Yeah well you've just listed a load reasons the UAF are absolute shit, and reason I dont see eye-to-eye with them on these matters. Does that mean that I shouldn't be prepared to work with the UAF when needs be? In fairness they've grassed me up to the police before now, you don't need to tell me what they're like.


For paying BNP members for info  in 2006?


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## frogwoman (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Does that mean that I shouldn't be prepared to work with the UAF when needs be?



no, not at all. I don't think that the UAF help create the "conditions", but they're happy to line up with people that do

you asked "what do you mean by the people who help create the conditions for fascism and the far-right to develop" and i answered. i think "unity" in these matters is overrated.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Is turning them into something that they're not and no power of becoming a good start? Is obsession a good start? If so where does it end? People running around on facebook copying screengrabs. Shit mobile phone vids of fuck all. This isn't anti-fascism. Give it up.
> 
> You say your town,not my town.There's a difference there isn't there? How did the UAF do it? Did they bus people to other towns? I can oppose shit without becoming obsessed by it. The only people slapping the EDL after brum is the police.



i think militant antifascists are very wary of these gangs invading their towns and large scale opposition works. i wd recite the hitler 'only street opposition cd stop us ...' but cant remember it! in my town this has certainly been the case: the EDL were massively outnumbered, delayed from marching for hours, kettled in, humiliated etc. they did it once 3 years ago, failed, tried again 2 years ago, failed better. aint been back since. propaganda is also vital, 'countering the arguments' (SWP!) and exposing their 'nationalism' for the fascism it actually is: see wayne baldwin, simon biggs, liam pinkam and loads of others.


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## audiotech (Oct 31, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> frogs, i think with the UAF there is the 'searchlight job creation' aspect too (likewise plod and MI5 amplifying 'political threats' to gullible MPs). the professional antifascist is on a salary as opposed to militant antifascists doing what we can in our spare time. i am sure larry o hara would have something to say on this as he is spot on with gable and C18 (in turning up the heat etc). you out there lar?



Not only that ^, but also as Orwell pointed out intellectuals cheat, that is if they talk enough about danger then maybe the danger can be avoided.

However, and importantly it's clear to all but the most dogged sectarians that this is happening right now with the growth of the far-right in Europe. We're not quite at a tipping point yet where all is lost.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You demand, post after post, that i provide evidence yet you 'can't be arsed'? Wow,so a few far right people went to the sort of far right event that far right people go to and this is evidence of competent BNP activists leaving for the EDL? Beef your argument up.



I'm still waiting for you to come up with any kind of material evidence whatsoever that the UAF are responsible for the early growth of the EDL. I'm not going to oblige you by going answer these questions until you do me the courtesy of answering mine which came first.

The idea that the UAF helped create a state of hysteria over the EDL, which in turn boosted the appeal of the EDL to soft-racists and fascists, pre-supposes that the UAF is actually capable of having that kind of influence, which they simply are not. Outside of the left, the UAF's and anti-fascist media's influence is non-existent, so its laughable that you think they somehow encouraged the EDL in their early formation. Half of these kids who've got involved in the EDL don't even know the SWP exists, and yet somehow you're telling me that the SWP/UAF's anti-racism is the primary motivating factor behind them getting involved in this? It's ridiculous. Then, to top this off, when given 3 pretty simply and straightforward alternative theories as to why the EDL have grown in the way they have, you demand that I "name names" (lol) in order to back this up, demanding from me a level of detail and evidence that you are completely incapable of giving for your own argument.

How about you make some small degree of effort to back up these fancilful claims of yours, show some kind of evidence which can prove the UAF played the primary role in the development and growth of the early EDL, then I might be inclinedto give you some names. And for the record, I don't know the names of all the ex-BNP members and activists who are now in the EDL, most of them aren't high-level organizers as you well know, they're middle-ranking lay activists and random BNP types, people who I know as much my face as by name. Do you think I'm sat on huge and comprehensive lists of names or something? Get real.


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## audiotech (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Who is this 'we' delroy?



You're not helping Mr I'm always right with large, obstinate head.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 31, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Not only that ^, but also as Orwell pointed out intellectuals cheat, that is if they talk enough about danger then maybe the danger can be avoided.
> 
> However, and importantly it's clear to all but the most dogged sectarians that this is happening right now with the growth of the far-right in Europe. We're are not quite at a tipping point yet where all is lost.



hello techy! this is going on over on the european fascism thread too!


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> no, not at all. I don't think that the UAF help create the "conditions", but they're happy to line up with people that do
> 
> you asked "what do you mean by the people who help create the conditions for fascism and the far-right to develop" and i answered. i think "unity" in these matters is overrated.



I agree, and if it's any consolation I avoid working the UAF unless I actually really have to. I even stopped someone from punching Weymann Bennett in the face in Dewsbury not too long ago, although part of me regrets that.



butchersapron said:


> For paying BNP members for info in 2006?



Would you pay a disgruntled racist smackhead £20 to find out where the BNP hold their meetings in your town? Or are you morally against that kind of thing? Fuck morality, that's for methodist ministers and boy scouts, just do you gotta do.


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## frogwoman (Oct 31, 2011)

> I agree, and if it's any consolation I avoid working the UAF unless I actually really have to. I even stopped someone from punching Weymann Bennett in the face in Dewsbury not too long ago, although part of me regrets that.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I'm still waiting for you to come up with any kind of material evidence whatsoever that the UAF are responsible for the early growth of the EDL. I'm not going to oblige you by going answer these questions until you do me the courtesy of answering mine which came first.


 You're really not are you? I've asked you what material evidence could possibly exist. Are you going to give me an answer? Do you want your question answered or not? Is your question serious? If so,then help me answer it.


> The idea that the UAF helped create a state of hysteria over the EDL, which in turn boosted the appeal of the EDL to soft-racists and fascists, pre-supposes that the UAF is actually capable of having that kind of influence, which they simply are not. Outside of the left, the UAF's and anti-fascist media's influence is non-existent, so its laughable that you think they somehow encouraged the EDL in their early formation. Half of these kids who've got involved in the EDL don't even know the SWP exists, and yet somehow you're telling me that the SWP/UAF's anti-racism is the primary motivating factor behind them getting involved in this? It's ridiculous. Then, to top this off, when given 3 pretty simply and straightforward alternative theories as to why the EDL have grown in the way they have, you demand that I "name names" (lol) in order to back this up, demanding from me a level of detail and evidence that you are completely incapable of giving for your own argument.



It not only presupposes the idea, it's based on it. You've seen clueless cunts going around going "are you UAF?" They don't know who the UAF are. Why do they hve to know who the SWP are for that well evidenced group dynamic to exist and work? You've strangled yourself.



> How about you make some small degree of effort to back up these fancilful claims of yours, show some kind of evidence which can prove the UAF played the primary role in the development and growth of the early EDL, then I might be inclinedto give you some names. And for the record, I don't know the names of all the ex-BNP members and activists who are now in the EDL, most of them aren't high-level organizers as you well know, they're middle-ranking lay activists and random BNP types, people who I know as much my face as by name. Do you think I'm sat on huge and comprehensive lists of names or something? Get real.



You haven't got any names to give me. I've asked you what form this evidence you demand could take. Help us both out and answer the question.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I agree, and if it's any consolation I avoid working the UAF unless I actually really have to. I even stopped someone from punching Weymann Bennett in the face in Dewsbury not too long ago, although part of me regrets that.
> 
> Would you pay a disgruntled racist smackhead £20 to find out where the BNP hold their meetings in your town? Or are you morally against that kind of thing? Fuck morality, that's for methodist ministers and boy scouts, just do you gotta do.


I know where they're meeting. You don't need to do that shit to find out.They're not the french resistance. Odd.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

frogwoman said:


>



The incident in question was pretty interesting. It was one of the worst UAF demo's I've ever been too, even by their rapidly falling standards. At first I spent the afternoon in Dewsbury itself, just talking to people and so on, until the police worked out we were anti-fascists and told us that we either got into the UAF pen or we'd be arrested there and then. So, rather than go home before the EDL had even arrived, we sat in the UAF pen. About 50 people there altogether, with about 10 of them being SWP'ers from outside the area. Then, as the EDL arrived, a large group of about 100 or so asian youth from a nearby estate arrived, and made their way to the UAF pen. I have a lot of time for these kids and I was grateful for the opportunity to talk to a few of 'em about the EDL. They gave one of them the mic, under their little gazebo, and instantly rather than take the thing seriously just started taking the piss in a massive way, shouting and bawling, partly in English and partly in what I think was Urdu, which was pretty hilarious. After that incoherent shouting session, someone from the UAF then came on the mic and said "I think what you've heard there is an expression of the anger that is felt in the Asian community over the EDL" as if this kid was too stupid to express his anger normally, whereas in actual fact he was just taking the piss with his mates. Monumentally patronising. Everyone there who was wasn't in the SWP had their jaws wide open at this. Mr Bennett then spoke in person to some of the asian lads who turned up, and I listened in to what he was saying. Actually, this little pep talk started out quite well, as he told them about his upbringing and how he had been regularly threatened by an NF member who lived on his street as a kid, and how it took years to summon up the courage to challenge that. These kids were really interested in this part of the talk. However, eventually it started to descend into very typical SWP "trotsky for idiots" cliches shit, culminating in asking them all to join the UAF, and with another guy handing out direct debit forms for them to fill in (I shit you not) which of course totally lost their interest. They all left pretty much straight afterwards. Then, a white guy with a Pakistan cricket t-shirt on, starting talking to Weymann Bennett, taking him to task for trying to co-opt these kids into their movement, how their anger was legitimate and not something that should be controlled by a front group, all good points that I could agree with. However, this guy, right as he was started getting more and more worked up, and eventually squared up to Weymann shouting "you're a fucking anti-white racist" right in his face, which is a bit much if you ask me. For all his faults I really don't think that's fair all at all. Anyway, at this point Weymann gets angry, and tries charging into this guy, and me and a few others have to dive in and split them up. It's to this day the biggest fiasco I've ever seen at a UAF rally. There were gangs of fash videoing the whole thing from the other side of the road laughing at us the whole time. The only reason I was even there was on pain of arrest, but to be honest I think spending a few hours in the cells would be more constructive that that pile of shite.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You're really not are you? I've asked you what material evidence could possibly exist. Are you going to give me an answer? Do you want your question answered or not? Is your question serious? If so,then help me answer it.



I'm not sure if there is any material evidence you could bring forward, infact I'd be sure that there isn't any evidence, because it's a stupid idea in the first place. But the burden of proof is on you here, you came into this thread shouting about how the growth of the EDL is the fault of the UAF, if you can't find any evidence to back up this assertation then I suppose it begs the question why the fuck do you believe it?

And to give you a little teaser, the BNP security goon who was shagging Nick Griffin's daughter before her current fella was there, although I don't know his name, unless his name is "the BNP security goon who was shagging Nick Griffin's daughter" Y'see I don't know all their names encyclopedically, but I do know that I'm right on this, that the EDL is riddled with ex-BNP.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I'm not sure if there is any material evidence you could bring forward, infact I'd be sure that there isn't any evidence, because it's a stupid idea in the first place. But the burden of proof is on you here, you came into this thread shouting about how the growth of the EDL is the fault of the UAF, if you can't find any evidence to back up this assertation then I suppose it begs the question why the fuck do you believe it?
> 
> And to give you a little teaser, the BNP security goon who was shagging Nick Griffin's daughter before her current fella was there, although I don't know his name, unless his name his "the BNP security good who was shagging Nick Griffin's daughter" Y'see I don't know all their names encyclopedically, but I do know that I'm right on this, that the EDL is riddled with ex-BNP.



I came into this thread? A year before you.  Now you're demanding evidence that you admit can't exist.

That's your intelligence?The publicly available searchlight smear file? And i should give up anti-fascism?


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy, sort it out. This is shit.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I came into this thread? A year before you. Now you're demanding evidence that you admit can't exist.



No not quite, there's a very but subtle but important differene, which is there's no evidence because it doesn't exist, not because it couldn't exist. You understand? If what you were saying is true then surely it'd be possible to provide something back it up, other than repetition of the same dubious claim, but because what you're saying isn't true, you can't.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> No not quite, there's a very but subtle but important differene, which is there's no evidence because it doesn't exist, not because it couldn't exist. You understand? If what you were saying is true then surely it'd be possible to provide something back it up, other than repetition of the same dubious claim, but because what you're saying isn't true, you can't.


So,what form could this evidence take? Help me.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> So,what form could this evidence take? Help me.



I don't know, seriously, but surely to have come to these conclusions you must have seen _some_ kind of evidence for it, unless it's just a wild hunch you've got with nothing to back it up. Like I says, finding some kind of evidence to back up your assertations is your responsibility not mine, if you can't do then perhaps you should re-examine your argument?


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I don't know, seriously, but surely to have come to these conclusions you must have seen _some_ kind of evidence for it, unless it's just a wild hunch you've got with nothing to back it up. Like I says, finding some kind of evidence to back up your assertations is your responsibility not mine, if you can't do then perhaps you should re-examine your argument?


What evidence can exist? If you don't think that it can exist then looking for it is a bit daft. Demanding that's it is produced and presented to you is beyond clownlike.
You fucked this up.Back to the start delroy.


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## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

E E EDL !!!


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What evidence can exist? If you don't think that it can exist then looking for it is a bit daft. Demanding that's it produced and presented to you is beyond clownlike.



No! I've been over this with once already, I do think that the evidence could exist, if what you're saying is true. It's not like this is something that's impossible to measure. What I'm trying to say is the reason why you can't find any evidence is because you're wrong, not because it's philosophically impossible to produce evidence of this. If it existed, then you could do, but because it doesn't, you can't.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 31, 2011)

This is getting tiresome butchersapron, and I don't want to de-rail this thread, so if you really care deeply about this would you PM me instead of going on and on and on here.

Seriously man, if I hear this "if only the left would just do nothing then everything would be ok" line of reasoning again I'm going to piss myself laughing, and I can't afford the underwear I've turned these inside-out once already, so please give it a break.


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## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> No! I've been over this with once already, I do think that the evidence could exist, if what you're saying is true. It's not like this is something that's impossible to measure. What I'm trying to say is the reason why you can't find any evidence is because you're wrong, not because it's philosophically impossible to produce evidence of this. If it existed, then you could do, but because it doesn't, you can't.


How would you measure it? What would you measure delroy? Let's work on this.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> This is getting tiresome butchersapron, and I don't want to de-rail this thread, so if you really care deeply about this would you PM me instead of going on and on and on here.
> 
> Seriously man, if I hear this "if only the left would just do nothing then everything would be ok" line of reasoning again I'm going to piss myself laughing, and I can't afford the underwear I've turned these inside-out once already, so please give it a break.


You're the only person saying this delroy. Who are 'the left' in your scenario?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> This is getting tiresome butchersapron, and I don't want to de-rail this thread....



from what delroy?


----------



## manny-p (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> from what delroy?


facebook


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

allybaba said:


> facebook


Don't forget the youtube!


----------



## manny-p (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You fucked this up.Back to the start delroy.


To be fair to Delroy you were the one claiming not too long ago that this thread actually helped the EDL grow.


----------



## manny-p (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Don't forget the youtube!


oh yep!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

allybaba said:


> To be fair to Delroy you were the one claiming not too long ago that this thread actually helped the EDL grow.


That's to be fair to bob surely. But as a piece of the UAF hysteria i stand by that claim.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

YEAH


----------



## manny-p (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That's to be fair to bob surely. But as a piece of the UAF hysteria i stand by that claim.


Fair enough. Have to say the UAF claiming that there was 400 EDL'rs at the brum demo makes me think that you are spot on with the UAF hysteria point.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> YEAH


 Yep


----------



## audiotech (Oct 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That's to be fair to bob surely. But as a piece of the UAF hysteria i stand by that claim.



Your claim doesn't stand up when you consider that for most of these demos UAF have tried to downplay EDL numbers and inflate their own numbers.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 31, 2011)

dont use FACTS


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 1, 2011)

You're allright - he didn't.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 1, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Your claim doesn't stand up when you consider that for most of these demos UAF have tried to downplay EDL numbers and inflate their own numbers.


That's simply not true  - between protests they've been  banging the drum long and loud.I'm sick of hearing about yet another Cable Street round 2,about how its utterly vital to attend to stop...guess what...their _growth_. Of course they play down the numbers _afterwards_, but they never shut up about it beforehand. And what is them inflating their own numbers supposed to tell us?


----------



## audiotech (Nov 1, 2011)

The Cable Street comparison was just the one @ Tower Hamlets.
Inflating their own numbers? Well, that could be to do with the 'there are more of us than you' message I've heard expressed on these occasions? Did you have another thought on this?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 1, 2011)

too funny!
http://twitpic.com/79g80m


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 1, 2011)

audiotech said:


> The Cable Street comparison was just the one @ Tower Hamlets.
> Inflating their own numbers? Well, that could be to do with the 'there are more of us than you' message I've heard expressed on these occasions? Did you have another thought on this?


Another thought on what exactly? _You_ were the one who claimed the UAF were inflating their own numbers, not me. It has nothing whatsoever o do with any point that i've tried to make.

edit: and no, cable street was not just used as regards the TH affair. It's been wheeled out time after time - as a few seconds googling should tell you.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 1, 2011)

wotta cuncha bunts!
http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/m...ested-at-birmingham-edl-march-66331-29685370/


----------



## audiotech (Nov 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> ner, ner, ner



Don't be daft.


----------



## krink (Nov 2, 2011)

just clicked on http://www.edlnews.co.uk and message says the website been suspended - anyone know why?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2011)

Moving to a different server this afternoon i heard.


----------



## krink (Nov 2, 2011)

ok ta.


----------



## john x (Nov 2, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Moving to a different server this afternoon i heard.


They had a DDOS attack last night.

The EDL site went down as well and it's thought it may be a 'friendly fire' incident, now that EDL News is on Google's first page.

john x


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2011)

Which is why they're moving to a more secure sever...according to themselves anyway. And yes, could well have been by-product of attempt to fuck up the EDL site.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

Tommy and Kev both up in court today.

Also Police want Super Asbo for Tommy so he can neer go to a Demo again.... lol


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommy and Kev both up in court today.
> 
> Also Police want Super Asbo for Tommy so he can neer go to a Demo again.... lol



How is that a good thing? They'll be doing it to us next.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

where did i say it would be a good thing?


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 3, 2011)

the "lol" in your post ...
I think someone, even fash scum like tommy, being banned from going to demonstrations for the rest of their life is pretty concerning tbh


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

The LOL was a LOL, the leader of the EDL not aloud to go to EDL demos is a LOL moment.

but yeah you read it however you want.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The LOL was a LOL, the leader of the EDL not aloud to go to EDL demos is a LOL moment.



Why?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

becuase he is the leader of the EDL,

it like me running a darts club in the fox and hounds but im bared from the pub.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 3, 2011)

i still dont get it


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

being the leader of something and no going to any of the events that you are the leader of is funny to me, thats why i said LOL.

im not sure i can make it any more simple than that.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)




----------



## frogwoman (Nov 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> being the leader of something and no going to any of the events that you are the leader of is funny to me, thats why i said LOL.
> 
> im not sure i can make it any more simple than that.



would you feel the same way if it was say bob crow or someone like that being banned from an anti cuts demo for the rest of their life? that's the point i'm making. i don't give a fuck about yaxley-lennon, but i dont really think i can cheer on stuff like this


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

Is bob crow a violent racist football thug? if he was and he was banned from going to demos then i would LOL yes.

Who is asking you to cheer?... not sure how many times i need to say this, but a LOL is laugh out Loud... how you read that as i agree with banning people from doing stuff i have no fucking idea.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 3, 2011)

EDL News are back. They have moved onto some dedicated hosting based in germany with a mirror in the United States. They started out on shared hosting, not realising the website would get so big.  The new hosting has been provided for free as well.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 3, 2011)

the problem is that this type of measure is going to be used against the left and you know it. i don't find anything to laugh at in that.

i also don't find anything to laugh at pushing the EDL onto more extreme courses of action by banning peaceful demos. if the radical right can't demonstrate because that avenue has been closed to them by the state (rather than locals being able to make it clear just how unwelcome they are) it won't be long before the more dedicated of them start pursuing other avenues instead.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Is bob crow a violent racist football thug? if he was and he was banned from going to demos then i would LOL yes.
> 
> Who is asking you to cheer?... not sure how many times i need to say this, but a LOL is laugh out Loud... how you read that as i agree with banning people from doing stuff i have no fucking idea.



There are some people who think he (and trade unions in general) is nothing better than that. Unfortunately they seem to be rather influential at the moment


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

where as i just think it's funny... hence the LOL


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 3, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> the problem is that this type of measure is going to be used against the left and you know it. i don't find anything to laugh at in that.
> 
> i also don't find anything to laugh at pushing the EDL onto more extreme courses of action by banning peaceful demos. if the radical right can't demonstrate because that avenue has been closed to them by the state (rather than locals being able to make it clear just how unwelcome they are) it won't be long before the more dedicated of them start pursuing other avenues instead.



Absolutly, its state sponsored anti domestic extremism and the left will be victim to this as well.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

http://www.lancashire.police.uk/new...ssault-following-english-defence-league-rally

*Man sentenced for assault following English Defence League rally*


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 3, 2011)

A suspended sentence of 12 weeks, 150 hours community work and a £200 fine - sounds a bit lucky not to have gone down tbh. It's only a couple of months since he got done for the scrap with Newport County last year - for which he got a 12-month community rehabilitation order, 150 hours of unpaid work, a three-year football banning order and ordered to pay £650 in costs.


----------



## krink (Nov 3, 2011)

The mess that was the failed anti-islamophobia event in Newcastle last weekend has been written up by a pal of mine here: neanarchists

I think he's got it spot-on.



> A Monumental Failure
> 
> Saturday 29th Oct was not a particularly good day for the Left, or for the unions or for anti-fascists. It certainly wasn't a good day for the Newcastle Occupation, as the consequences of the collective failure of all the above-named were visited on them in the form of a horde of brick-throwing nazis.
> 
> ...


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 3, 2011)

krink said:


> The mess that was the failed anti-islamophobia event in Newcastle last weekend has been written up by a pal of mine here: neanarchists
> 
> I think he's got it spot-on - tweeted.


Totally spot on. Tell your pal he rocks.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 3, 2011)

The EDL try to make out their only against 'radical Islam', but then at Brum demo one of the speechmakers said: "I see all Islam has to be treated like a cancer."


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 3, 2011)

187 pages and finally we get somewhere. _Fantastic_.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 3, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> 187 pages and finally we get somewhere. _Fantastic_.


We've already been through this with Norfolk SWP and the EDL crashing them and Norfolk Antifa NCAG getting them to safety, which brought on some unbelievable criticism from a well-known scottish socialist. If I remember rightly there was a meeting organised by naive antifa newbies in Leeds that was crashied in 2010 by Snowy (?). There have been others but those are the two that spring to mind.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 3, 2011)

I was referring to your valuable discovery that there are some people in the EDL who hate muslims in post #5582 of this thread.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 3, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I was referring to your valuable discovery that there are some people in the EDL who hate muslims in post #5582 of this thread.


oh ha Nothing's fucking changed there. They've always been against all Islam. I'm just reporting that their speeches are still against all Islam.

Anyway - they hung with Bloc Identitaire earlier in the year, so expecting to see a similar style from EDL soon - i.e. more off-street/conference-style activity.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




*The Luther Blissett Transcript of Tommy's* *Remember November "*_I just do what the CVF tell me_" *Video Diary*

‎"The EDL has to evolve ... I want to talk to the leadership of all the areas - the members - state this is what I think the future for the EDL holds - there is something going to be announced for early next year --and that's what I want to talk about in person --  so 19th -- come to Luton -- the meeting will be about what direction the EDL takes -- this meeting was not called by me -- this meeting was called by "the hierarchy" -- there's a hell of a lot of people behind closed doors -- that do a hell of a lot -- this meeting was called by them -- this meeting is for everyone to air their concerns -- and talk about the direction as a group -- some people wanted to call it off until January -- but some announcements before January will have people scratching their heads -- documentary's coming out -- an hour long -- think the whole country is going to be talking about it -- the english defence league is not dead -- there's a documentation I just read --- a quarter of the people in our organisation are thought to be infiltrators -- a quarter -- people are saying they're walking away -- what you going to walk away to? -- now that's what this meeting on the 19th -- to discuss the other option we're going to have -- we've had meetings with very influential people from all over the world about this -- when you say leader -- i'm a volunteer the same as you -- I'm not the leader"


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 3, 2011)

lol @ Bob2009 saying the *wrong* answer.







The fact of the matter is that it is a worrying development for protesters if the police are using powers to prevent people attending protests in future because of violent conduct. If that were to be a level playing field, perhaps the old bill could get banned from future protests too?

But it's difficult not to smirk at the thought of 'Tommy Robinson' aka Stephen 'middle class double barrelled' Yaxley-Lennon (no relation to John) attending future meetings via video link-up whilst having a ten minute breather from 'Association' in Ford open prison for nobheads.

Neither feeling is the 'right' way to feel. I would encourage everyone not to deny either emotion but to spend a moment considering the two of them in unison.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

Well it didnt happen anyway, but if it did i would still LOL no matter what anyone on the internet said.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 3, 2011)

Ah, a liberal.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 3, 2011)

Ah, someone on the internet.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 3, 2011)

It wasn't going to happen. One the one foot, why hand Tommy's arse to the ICLA/CVF on a plate so they can write yet more banal articles in Gaffney-media aggregates about how EDL are persecuted by the government and martyred for the EDL cause? And on the other foot, there's always the pro-EDL anti-Tory articles coming from Lake's favourite think-tank, HudsonNY to consider.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 4, 2011)

krink said:


> The mess that was the failed anti-islamophobia event in Newcastle last weekend has been written up by a pal of mine here: neanarchists
> 
> I think he's got it spot-on.



It's certainly the case that the union did put a call out for stewards, as did the PSA, it might be the case that not every branch passed it on to it's activists but most would have. If none came forward well, can't say I blame them who would want to defend an event with Yvonne Ridley speaking at it?


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 4, 2011)

krink said:


> The mess that was the failed anti-islamophobia event in Newcastle last weekend has been written up by a pal of mine here: neanarchists
> 
> I think he's got it spot-on.


Of course 'anti fascists' in Newcastle could hace spent the last 15 years buidling a political alternative to the far right.When you have a definition that anti fascism is trying to find  and confront ( or more recently follow on Facebook) any organisation  that fits the model of last century Nazis  its not surprising that they are a bit late on the scene


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 4, 2011)

It took a while in Newcastle before the 'Geordies are Black & White' thing got started on the SJP terraces after a long time of NF/Bulldog paper sales outside the ground, and it was a while after a re-emergence of NF paper sales around the monument that AFA/ABC gave them a kicking in the early 90's.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Nov 4, 2011)

Can't believe supergrass got off with a three month suspended. Thought he was going down for sure!


----------



## Corax (Nov 4, 2011)

Bloody hell I've managed 7 minutes of that video and so far it's just a big long whinge.

Froggie and Bob are both right. If it had happened, then of course it would be a very worrying development. Well, only a bit worrying tbh. Because there's fuck all chance of it standing up to an ECHR challenge once it got that far. But the idea still made me lol.  C66 put it well.

It's just schadenfreude, compounded by irony.

Twelve minutes in to the video now (playing in the background). He's just spouted something far more concerning than the bickering above IMO. That was a very clear olive branch to the NWI/NEI. A reunification would provide an unwelcome morale boost, and could potentially reverse the decline in numbers, for a while at least.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 4, 2011)

re: newcastle. an initiative from comrades down in brighton!
http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress.com/
this needs some serious consideration.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 5, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> re: newcastle. an initiative from comrades down in brighton!
> http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress.com/
> this needs some serious consideration.



It does but it will inevitably be the same last century anti fascism that will refuse to get their hands dirty building a political alternative in working class communities


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 5, 2011)

local organisations have to develop a useful antifascist group that can grow out of anti-cuts, occupy etc., and stop the infidels and the edl from operating with impunity.


----------



## krink (Nov 5, 2011)

Infidels/sdl/nf next demo in Durham, 12/11/12 not 100% confirmed though


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 6, 2011)

If anyone is in Nottingham and are free tonight, can they please get down to @*OccupyNotts* who are facing threats from #*edl* muppets in the market square. There was a firework attack on camp this afternoon, more threats been made, and solidarity & support needed in camp tonight.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> lol @ Bob2009 saying the *wrong* answer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


could we lose the idea that having a double-barrelled name's the preserve of the middle classes? it's no longer the case, with couples more frequently choosing to combine their names.


----------



## laptop (Nov 7, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> could we lose the idea that having a double-barrelled name's the preserve of the middle classes? it's no longer the case, with couples more frequently choosing to combine their names.



Lap Top-Computer likes this post by Pick Mans-Model


----------



## Corax (Nov 7, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> could we lose the idea that having a double-barrelled name's the preserve of the middle classes? it's no longer the case, with couples more frequently choosing to combine their names.


If that continues we're all going to end up sounding like Crufts entrants.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 7, 2011)

Runner up for wanker of the week award goes to this free marketeer/UKIP member/PR journo, whose analysis bears only a feint resemblance to reality : http://bit.ly/rYoNDV

This UKIP member implies that the EDL demonstrate against (Polish) immigrants to Britain, and compares them to the social justice protests of Occupy that are happening around the country, nay, the World. Additionally, it's as good a reason as any to never to seek his services for a PR campaign that you care about.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 7, 2011)

Clear winner for the wanker of the week award - EDL's very own vanguard militia (who've been given a permanent home on Lake's forum) are making plans to remove the OccupyLSX camp: http://twitpic.com/7bvew2


----------



## manny-p (Nov 8, 2011)

wanker of the week?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 8, 2011)

Wanker of the week
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edls-joe-ruthven-trolls-missing-persons-facebook-pages


----------



## john x (Nov 9, 2011)

I find this a lot more sinsiter 

john x


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 9, 2011)

Is this for the student demo?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 9, 2011)

Just out of interest, how many left wing groups could go on the internet boasting about how many guns they have without having their door's kicked in by the police? I hate to sound like Joe Owens but are these CxF lot state or what?


----------



## john x (Nov 9, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Is this for the student demo?


No, the Cxf are mobilising against MAC's threat to burn poppies again this Friday.

john x


----------



## Fingers (Nov 9, 2011)

He posted that last night, I strongly suspect his door got booted in this morning. I will try and find out.


----------



## Corax (Nov 9, 2011)

"Sinister" is way overstating it for me.  "Fantasist" springs to mind far more rapidly.

Can't know for sure of course, but the odds are...


----------



## john x (Nov 9, 2011)

Corax said:


> "Sinister" is way overstating it for me. "Fantasist" springs to mind far more rapidly.
> 
> Can't know for sure of course, but the odds are...


I totally agree but Copeland and Brevik both turned their fantasies into reality so it can happen!

john x


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 9, 2011)

Breivik went out of his way NOT to appear too much of an "extremist" on the internet though.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 9, 2011)

Fucks sake, Tommy And kokaine Kev have occupied the roof of FIFA headquarters in Zurich.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 9, 2011)

Fuck the EDL. And fuck FIFA.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 9, 2011)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/t...q-in-new-attempt-to-highjack-the-poppy-appeal


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 9, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Fuck the EDL. And fuck FIFA.



What's wrong with FIFA?


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 9, 2011)

the blatant dodginess of its chairman for one thing, screwing south african workers etc etc ...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 9, 2011)

john x said:


> I find this a lot more sinsiter
> 
> john xView attachment 14637



Looks like an idiotic fantasist to me. If he really was going to do anything like that the last thing he'd be doing would be warning people about it. He just wants "respect" from his equally brainless comrades.

Great way to get yourself locked up though given the kinds of charges we've seen lately for internet threats/incitement.

Edit: I see Corax got there before me.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 9, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Fucks sake, Tommy And kokaine Kev have occupied the roof of FIFA headquarters in Zurich.



That's probably one of their more politically astute moves IMO, given the daft jobsworth nature of the ban on poppies on shirts and the strength of feeling in the UK about remembrance day.


----------



## john x (Nov 9, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> That's probably one of their more politically astute moves IMO, given the daft jobsworth nature of the ban on poppies on shirts and the strength of feeling in the UK about remembrance day.


They must have their fingers crossed that the media don't remember that the RBL had to cancel their poppy sale in Brum the other week to allow the EDL to have their pub crawl!

And that the EDL have produced their own poppy merchandise and not a penny of it has gone to the Legion!

john x


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 9, 2011)

john x said:


> They must have their fingers crossed that the media don't remember that the RBL had to cancel their poppy sale in Brum the other week to allow the EDL to have their pub crawl!
> 
> john x



Which wasn't one of their more politically astute moves


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 9, 2011)

john x said:


> I find this a lot more sinsiter
> 
> john xView attachment 14637



he's gone potty! and he has no idea of punctuation or the use of capitals.


----------



## john x (Nov 9, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> he's gone potty!


So has his partner!

She was on facebook this afternoon saying she'd heard the BBC was owned by Muslims.*

john x

*and no, she wasn't joking!


----------



## Corax (Nov 9, 2011)

Has EDLNews got RSS?


----------



## john x (Nov 10, 2011)

Word is, that Rafferty and at least one other member of the Confused Ex-Forces are answering a few questions about Friday at the minute. ;-)

john x


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 10, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwIqQLSyO_k


Video of Tommy Robbinson being slapped!

PS is there a guide on here for the html (?) code for posting images and videos etc?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 10, 2011)

just press the film lookig thing and paste it in


----------



## Fingers (Nov 10, 2011)

Tango down, I have heard Rafferty has been lifted tonight but not had it 100% confirmed yet.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 10, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Tango down, I have heard Rafferty has been lifted tonight but not had it 100% confirmed yet.




(for Plymouth racial attack on Kurdish restaurant)


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 10, 2011)

Wednesday's FIFA stunt:



Short video here: http://www.twitpic.com/7cjy76

Opportunistic as ever, Dick Griffin got in on the act:



EDL are so deluded they think FIFA's compromise on their original decision to disallow players to wear poppies on Sunday is because of them, and not to do with the intervention of William Windsor, Duke of Cambridge and David Cameron, PM.



			
				Football Association said:
			
		

> "The FA can confirm that FIFA has today agreed that the England team will now be permitted to wear a poppy on the black armbands the players will wear during Saturday's match with Spain," an FA statement said.
> 
> "While continuing to adhere to the laws of the game, wearing the poppy on the armband does ensure the poppy will be visible throughout the game.
> 
> "The FA welcomes FIFA's decision and thanks them for agreeing to this."


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 10, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwIqQLSyO_k
> 
> 
> Video of Tommy Robbinson being slapped!


Yaxley-Lennon drives through Bury Park in Luton with his car window open, slagging off Islam etc...then looks surprised when he gets a slap. It's almost as if he did it for the cameras. Brilliant entertainment.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 10, 2011)

I didn't know 'fucking chief' was still common parlance as a cuss. Haven't heard that one in years


----------



## Fingers (Nov 10, 2011)

MAC have been banned but are likely to come back under a different name, the EDL need them to do that really


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 10, 2011)

Fingers said:


> MAC have been banned but are likely to come back under a different name, the EDL need them to do that really


From midnight tonight:


> The organisation Muslims Against Crusades will be banned from operating in the UK from midnight, the Home Secretary has said.
> Theresa May said she was satisfied the group was "simply another name for an organisation already proscribed under a number of names"
> 
> Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/muslims-against-crusades-banned-16075634.html#ixzz1dJEvKjCf


----------



## john x (Nov 10, 2011)

EDL now threatening to attack the Occupy site at St Pauls!

john x


----------



## treelover (Nov 10, 2011)

EDL warning OLSX on facebook


----------



## john x (Nov 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> EDL warning OLSX on facebook


Threatening, not warning!

john x


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 10, 2011)

Apparently there's two of them there already! http://twitpic.com/7cs630/full


----------



## Fingers (Nov 10, 2011)

They are already aware of them, so are the police.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 10, 2011)

Oh dear Tommy, back to prison?  http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-leader-faces-return-to-prison


----------



## manny-p (Nov 10, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Oh dear Tommy, back to prison? http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-leader-faces-return-to-prison



Standing up for Britain like the true patriots they are. It brings a tear to my eyes


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 11, 2011)

FIFA had to get their own back after Tommeh single handedly forced them into allowing the England team to sport the poppy. It's a bit like when Jesus was crucified.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 11, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> FIFA had to get their own back after Tommeh single handedly forced them into allowing the England team to sport the poppy. It's a bit like when Jesus was crucified.



but with less paki bashing?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 11, 2011)

http://newsthump.com/2011/11/11/muslims-against-crusades-ban-leaves-edl-at-a-loose-end/


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 11, 2011)

Just seen some pretty interesting falling out on facebook within the EDL. http://twitpic.com/7cv6jl http://twitpic.com/7cuts5 courtesy of EverythingEDL's twitter. Jeff Marsh arrested?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 11, 2011)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-members-arrested-at-the-cenotaph  Several EDlmembers arrested at the cenotaph


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

10 EDL members arrested at Fleet Street, unconfirmed but suspect on their way to St. Paul's; an unconfirmed number at St. Paul's (OccupyLSX); a bus-load of 57 at the Cenotaph (Whitehall) yfrog.com/bc4fsz http://yfrog.com/5y1imz http://yfrog.com/0rk3mz;


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

Merseyside #*EDL* now "hitting Unite building in Liverpool" http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/edlnews/status/134994934930489344/photo/1

As Fingerz says - No MAC to fight? EDL start on the Unions on Armistice Day.
Fascist scum


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 11, 2011)

Apparently the EDL are attacking UAF HQ in Liverpool as we speak http://twitpic.com/7d2at4


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 11, 2011)

We can't just fucking sit back and take this y'know, them little fuckers in Liverpool are way too cocky


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

EDL threat to Occupy Notts camp tonight confirmed, please lend full support & solidarity needed all night


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> We can't just fucking sit back and take this y'know, them little fuckers in Liverpool are way too cocky


Looks like Armistice Day is the day EDL they openly declare war on the people of Britain. So much for being 'patriots'.
They are nothing but fascist bootboy scum for Gaffney. Fuck you Gaffney's astroturfed bootboys. Fuck you UKIP. Fuck you BNP. Fuck you British ''Freedom'' party. Fuck you English Democrats. Fuck you Christine Brim and your National Front supporting freak Gaffney.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 11, 2011)

Any confirmation of this actually happening?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

Yes. 57 EDL now confirmed arrested in Whitehall
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16108502

Earlier, arrests of 10 on Fleet St. confirmed, and as EDL arrived at OccupyLSX


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 11, 2011)

just trying to find out about liverpool now


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

messaged Liverpool as soon as knew about it (before wrote it here), but guess what - seems everyone's at work or out there antifa-ing.

sent message to Unite as soon as knew about it (before messaged Liverpool), which would be quite pointless as they would have known if their building was being attacked by EEEDL/BNP/NWI/NF Nationalists.

IMO, AF likely to be needed at OccupyLiverpool from tonight onwards (as they've had threats before & afaik trouble).

OccupyNotts already need AF solidarity for tonight after EDL threats made.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

200 kettled, 57 arrested (all EDL): http://www.blottr.com/london/breaking-news/200-edl-members-kettled-whitehall-armistice-day



> *200 EDL members kettled on Whitehall on Armistice Day*
> 
> 
> Approximately 200 members of the English Defence League (EDL) have been kettled by police around a pub on Whitehall. 57 people were arrested in order to "prevent a breach of the peace" the Met said.
> ...


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> just trying to find out about liverpool now


Confirmed


> Despite saying they were only out to pay respects, Liverpool *EDL *have spent remembrance day harassing News From Nowhere and the Unite union.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

Arrest total for EDL now running at 156
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/11/police-arrest-edl-supporters-peace?newsfeed=true


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 11, 2011)

I meant about confirmation about liverpool. Heard about the news from nowhere thing. 

Hope there is pics and a more detailed report to confirm it more.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

EDL Arrest total in London now running at 170+


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I meant about confirmation about liverpool. Heard about the news from nowhere thing.
> 
> Hope there is pics and a more detailed report to confirm it more.


Liverpool Antifa are "out and about" and EDL harrassment confirmed @ Unite and News from Nowhere in Liverpool. Not expecting a written report until situation has calmed.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 11, 2011)

scum

eta - i was on a train yesterday PM with 3 very old veterans, resplendent in their best suits and medals, talking about shared experiences, obviously having been to a service of some sort. To think this EDL cunts can even begin to believe they represent people like that is utterly mind boggling.

makes me really fucking cross. what on earth must people like that think when they see these twats.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 11, 2011)

Funny as fuck... FACT


----------



## john x (Nov 11, 2011)

Claiming now to be being surrounded by 100s of 'muzzies' in Whitechapel.

Probably a load of shite but they have been threatening to go back to Tower Hamlets since they were chased in September.

john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)




----------



## thriller (Nov 11, 2011)

why the fuck this lot have not been banned is beyond comprehension.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 11, 2011)

All that is banned is desired (Arab proverb).


----------



## thriller (Nov 11, 2011)

if you have a group that causes tension/trouble/fights/needs policing *every single time* they go somewhere, that in my books needs a ban. It's not even the minority that causes trouble/tension. It's all of them!


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Nov 11, 2011)

I seen this in Whitehall, I was there during the minutes silence until some European Muslim decided to shout 20 seconds into it "No more wars" the police turned up and told him you had you say and the people here are to give their respect and was told to go away, some people freaked as he had a shaven head and back off abit. As for the EDL I got some guy at work who backs them fully but then he is a Millwall supporter! I couldn't care myself, an hour later as I walked past I was amazed by the numbers of police there the EDL were in a pub but they were surround by five rows of police and dogs. And tons of police met vehicles. I can't say what happen as I wasn't in the area, This evening I made my way that way only to find it's all been cleared up.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 11, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/...ish-defence-league-supporters-video?fb=native

lol


----------



## Balbi (Nov 11, 2011)

Gives them a fillup in the 'victimisation of the working class white british people of this country' department though.

Also, sets a nice precedent for any group gathering in numbers with a united active interest - all it'll take is a numpty online and suddenly everyone's getting in the back of a van.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 11, 2011)

Didnt see it but didnt some EDL admin say they where going to go down the St Pauls or something?


----------



## thriller (Nov 11, 2011)

lopsidedbunny said:


> some people freaked as he had a shaven head and back off abit.



what does this mean?


----------



## Corax (Nov 11, 2011)

thriller said:


> if you have a group that causes tension/trouble/fights/needs policing *every single time* they go somewhere, that in my books needs a ban.


I'm glad you're not in power then!

Causing 'trouble' is not in itself a bad thing. UK Uncut are pretty dedicated to 'causing trouble'. So are Smash EDO. I'm sure you could fill in a dozen more examples yourself.

The banning of the EDL is the last thing we should be wishing for, unless we're wishing for a fascist state.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 11, 2011)

Banned from all pubs will do.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 11, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Banned from all pubs will do.


Sharia Law


----------



## OneStrike (Nov 11, 2011)

They didn't look particularly rowdy, safe to assume the police had undercover plod in the Red Lion? They seem to have them everywhere else.    I woke up around 12 with several texts saying the edl were on their way to OccupyLsx.  When those teens got years for plotting facebook riots, it seems odd that the police never follow up edl specific threats.  I'm no fan of this style of policing, or the MET in general, but perhaps they did have real info?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/...ish-defence-league-supporters-video?fb=native
> 
> lol


that's pure edl propaganda for the persecuted mugs tbf


----------



## lopsidedbunny (Nov 11, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/...ish-defence-league-supporters-video?fb=native
> 
> lol


 Interesting!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 11, 2011)

it's a nice pub as well, was having a pint there last week


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 11, 2011)

torygraph take on it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8885128/EDL-members-arrested-on-Armistice-Day.html


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 11, 2011)

total policing though innit - wade in, get their details, let them go


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 11, 2011)

in many ways, i think the target Occupy to be odd


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 12, 2011)

following on from this weeks student demo; the ratio of police to protesters seems to be now fixed at 1:1.
 How long till the met follows Greece and Italy into financial meltdown?


----------



## john x (Nov 12, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Also, sets a nice precedent for any group gathering in numbers with a united active interest - all it'll take is a numpty online and suddenly everyone's getting in the back of a van.



Hardly.

There are some idiots on the left but I doubt they would post photos on the internet of themselves in paramilitary clothing saying they are off out to smash some skulls and if they did they would deserve to be lifted. Also I think 'a numpty online' is not going to attract any attention at all as there are lots of numpties online.

The reason the police took this seriously was that after MAC cancelled their protest, the disappointment that their target had dissolved was all over the EDL facebook pages. Literally thousands of posts appeared urging those still going to London, to attack the Occupy London site and literally hundreds of posts from people going there, promising to 'rip the tents up' and 'kick the fuck out of the protesters'. This was all helped along by a 'status' by admin on the official EDL site warning the Occupy site to be gone by 12am. or they would shift them.

What do you suggest the cops should have done?

john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

Threats to OccupyLSX from EDL regions/divisions & members came well before MAC were banned/cancelled demo.

*Almost* since it began- definitely after it swarmed to other locations.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 12, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Threats to OccupyLSX from EDL regions/divisions & members came well before MAC were banned/cancelled demo.
> 
> *Almost* since it began- definitely after it swarmed to other locations.


without defending the knuckleheads, can't you accept that mass arrests simply on suspicion isn't really a sign of a healthy democracy?


----------



## Maggot (Nov 12, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> without defending the knuckleheads, can't you accept that mass arrests simply on suspicion isn't really a sign of a healthy democracy?


Agreed. If this was a bunch of anarchists, most of Urban would be in uproar.


----------



## john x (Nov 12, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> without defending the knuckleheads, can't you accept that mass arrests simply on suspicion isn't really a sign of a healthy democracy?


That's as may be, but as I said before, what do you think the cops should have done about it?

john x


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 12, 2011)

john x said:


> That's as may be, but as I said before, what do you think the cops should have done about it?
> 
> john x


let them get drunk and go home.

which is probably what they would have done. mdc were taken out of the equation already. for right or for wrong.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> without defending the knuckleheads, can't you accept that mass arrests simply on suspicion isn't really a sign of a healthy democracy?


You might be addressing the wrong person here cos not sure where this has come from. After Liverpool EDL threats, I contacted Liverpool Antifa, not the police.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 12, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> You might be addressing the wrong person here cos not sure where this has come from. After Liverpool EDL threats, I contacted Liverpool Antifa, not the police.


good for you.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> good for you.


force of habit


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> good for you.


now they know how social justice protestors feel. police have been dishing that heavy-handed shit out for decades. Every day I praise the advent of the phone video camera & citizen journalism - seriously.

maybe EDL come back to politics after all this racial scapegoat crap they've been chomping on for the last decade. there's worse than edl ideology out there anyway, which is relatively new by comparison. All manner of CTs - some cut-up from centuries-old state or religious propagandas - have taken the place of involved engagement in local and national and international level politically. They can be far harder to deal with ime because they're championed by people who've lost complete faith in the entire political decision making process.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 12, 2011)

What's happened in the internet tonight luther?


----------



## john x (Nov 12, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> mdc were taken out of the equation already. for right or for wrong.



Which was precisely why they wanted another target.

john x


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 12, 2011)

john x said:


> Which was precisely why they wanted another target.
> 
> john x


i don't accept that for a minute. but hey ho, what's done is done again. they got some sustenance to their persecution complex, the cops got some overtime and armistice day was overtaken by jingoistic stuff and nonsense 11.11.11


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What's happened in the internet tonight luther?


you tell me.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 12, 2011)

I hear the internet was 'out and about' earlier - can you confirm?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

don't you have an ancient grudge you could dredge up instead?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

Ok just got home, we and fellow EDL Newsers have been following them round all day and for the past week.

They made two main threats

1. EDL Admin on their Facebook wall instructed their followers to attack Occupy LSX
2. The CxF 'commanding office' Mike Rafferty' thretened the police with snipers and shit.

You belong to an org that threatens that I have no pity for them being rounded up and locked up.

Cunt whose egos got the better of them.

I sort of feel sorry for the halfwits who turned up not looking for trouble but if you want to wrestle with a dog, you are going to end up covered in fleas etc etc etc.

We spent the evening at OccupyLSX with the ever present threat that those that did not get nicked would still attack.

We finished the night this evening with a pint in the Red Lion where they all got nicked earlier on in the day. The bar staff did not know who they were at the time but found it amusing that a load of pissed up 'patriots' got nicked en mass. Some of them will come and have a look at us here tomorrow to find out more. Say hi to the bemused bar staff!

My view is, if your leadership threatens peaceful groups and plod online and you still turn up to have a political demo at Amristice to demo with them, you deserve all you get.

Plod i was talking to said that they will be all let out tomorrow morning, minus their transport home. Might make them think twice in future about trying to turn Armistice day into a racist political football and trying to highjack the poppy appeal next year. Fuck them.

MAC were banned, there was no reason for them to be there. chanting their anti muslim shit. Now MAC are banned, their hatred towards our Muslim community is 100% transparent.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

By the way, Tommy and Kev have been realeased from the Swiss prison with 'massive fines'.

Alan Lake will probably have to dig well into his pocket again to get these pair of fuckwits home, hopefully old bill will be waiting for Tommy's Easyjet flight home and whisk him off to serve his suspended sentence.

Would like to know how massive the fine was though.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

Thought fine was €3.5k?

Don't they have any cash left from the last ICLA/IFPA whip-round? (just over £3k said Sir Tommy in his 'I'm freed from Bedford prison' video diary whine, wasn't it?)


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

and for the record, the evening at OccupyLSX was a pretty soul destroying experiece as well. More than an hour was spent debating whether the all night security team and others on night shift should be allowed to use the kitchen to make cups of tea.

The only highlight of that hour was when a very eloquent drunk shouty bloke rocked up at the camp demanding everyone should get a job. He was repelled by blokes with dished full of incense and eventualy the police removed him. Then back to such important issues such as whther the night workers should be allowed to make themselves a cup of tea or not.

This sort of crap depresses me about the left.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Thought fine was €3.5k?
> 
> Don't they have any cash left from the last ICLA/IFPA whip-round? (just over £3k said Sir Tommy in his 'I'm freed from Bedford prison' video diary whine, wasn't it?)



Really? 3.5k?  That is proper hefty. Was that each or between them? I would imagine the last whip round probably got blown on chang and stuff, like snowy's legal fund did.

Oh I like that, any news on any of them being let out? I am just catching up.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

One last rant (honest) I suspect Theresa May banned MAC yesterday and instructed to the police to crack down on the EDL extremists as well (nick them all) which is sending a message to both sets of c***s. Well done May (and I am loathed to say that)


----------



## audiotech (Nov 12, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Sharia Law



Having worked in many a bar dealing with piss-heads (law and medical students being especially annoying) the present licensing laws should cover it.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Then back to such important issues such as whther the night workers should be allowed to make themselves a cup of tea or not.
> 
> This sort of crap depresses me about the left.



What was there to be talked about ? Surely a cup of tea is a human right ?


----------



## love detective (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> and for the record, the evening at OccupyLSX was a pretty soul destroying experiece as well. More than an hour was spent debating whether the all night security team and others on night shift should be allowed to use the kitchen to make cups of tea.



Jesus fuck

that's absurd/wrong on so many different levels


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/...ish-defence-league-supporters-video?fb=native
> 
> lol



what a bunch of whining bastards. i thought they were supposed to be tough guys? toothless, gutless, fuckwits.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 12, 2011)




----------



## Gingerman (Nov 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


What a fucking charmer,a big hit with the ladies no doubt.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I hear the internet was 'out and about' earlier - can you confirm?


See below. That's the internet 'out and about' with some of it's mates, that is.


B0B2oo9 said:


>


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2011)

in relation to EDL being scabs: more attacks on working class organisations
http://uaf.org.uk/2011/11/edl-fascists-attempt-attack-on-trade-union-unites-north-west-hq/
just reading about the freikorps, heimwehr, SA etc. same tactics only without the formidible leadership qualities of sir tommy and kocaine kev karol.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2011)

also they self-pitying whining about yesterday on facebook is classic fascist victimhood.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Really? 3.5k? That is proper hefty. Was that each or between them? I would imagine the last whip round probably got blown on chang and stuff, like snowy's legal fund did.
> 
> Oh I like that, any news on any of them being let out? I am just catching up.



Let out around 13:00pm, fined 3,500. Didn't say whether it was CHF or GBP. Cue lots of misplaced jokes about the devaluation of the Euro (Switzlerland doesn't have the Euro).
One (probably non-UK-based fan, as I can't be bothered to log into facebook to check) spills her identity-politics load:


> *Pamy Pearl:* the MUSLIMS ARE EVIL!!! THEY EVEN BOMB MY GRANDFATHERS CAR when he was an AMBASSADOR...HOW COULD THEY LET GO OF THIS MUSLIM SATANIC GROUP!!!sorry for my words...but i don't like what they are doing to EDLs ...NOT FAIR!!! JUSTICE SHOULD BE SERVE IN ENGLAND because its a GREAT COUNTRY!!what has happened to the IDENTITY OF THE COUNTRY? so sad! the leaders of the country should be GREAT. what has happened to the LEADERS NOW of England, are being manipulated by the Muslims...God i hope not.



All of the comments: http://twitpic.com/7:dd6bw


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> also they self-pitying whining about yesterday on facebook is classic fascist victimhood.


Is it to do with the BNP, isn't it? (@the anti-'marxists' spiel)



> Pat Harrington has also denied that Solidarity is a BNP front in a statement on the website of his party, Third Way (UK), adding that "Anyone who supports workers rights is welcome and that includes both members of the BNP and Communists." This latter claim seems to contrast with the BNP's statement that Solidarity is "a group of ... victims of Marxist persecution in the workplace" and that "[t]he Marxists in charge of the unions have only themselves to blame for the creation of this new union". - Wikipedia


BNP/Griffin ideology encourages and exploits a sense of victimhood, doesn't it?


----------



## john x (Nov 12, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> what a bunch of whining bastards. i thought they were supposed to be tough guys? toothless, gutless, fuckwits.


"And these are soldiers families who have come down here, you know, it's not like some football hooligan who's turned up for a fight."

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2011)

apparently, they surrendered again!


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> and for the record, the evening at OccupyLSX was a pretty soul destroying experiece as well. More than an hour was spent debating whether the all night security team and others on night shift should be allowed to use the kitchen to make cups of tea.
> 
> The only highlight of that hour was when a very eloquent drunk shouty bloke rocked up at the camp demanding everyone should get a job. He was repelled by blokes with dished full of incense and eventualy the police removed him. Then back to such important issues such as whther the night workers should be allowed to make themselves a cup of tea or not.
> 
> This sort of crap depresses me about the left.


 
not exactly the stuff of which october revolutions are made. IMHO regardless of their professed beliefs such people arent remotely left wing . They are simply taking the piss and wasting everyones time . Plainly theyve never done a days fucking actual work in their lives and couldnt give a stuff about any left wing cause . If there was real socialist revolution id put them up against a wall quicker than the bankers .


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 12, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> What was there to be talked about ? Surely a cup of tea is a human right ?



it should be a human right to kick someone in the bollocks whod try and stop you having one . That type of lost the plot , no contact with reality  shit is what often drives angry working class youngsters straight into the arms of the far right . Despicable as fascists are I doubt even they would stoop so low as to stop their volunteer workers having a cup of fucking tea .


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 12, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> in relation to EDL being scabs: more attacks on working class organisations
> http://uaf.org.uk/2011/11/edl-fascists-attempt-attack-on-trade-union-unites-north-west-hq/
> just reading about the freikorps, heimwehr, SA etc. same tactics only without the formidible leadership qualities of sir tommy and kocaine kev karol.



If that is the case then what are the anti fascist's tactics?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

There will now be a brief interlude.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> and for the record, the evening at OccupyLSX was a pretty soul destroying experiece as well. More than an hour was spent debating whether the all night security team and others on night shift should be allowed to use the kitchen to make cups of tea.



WTF!? 

Those cunts should have been made to stay up the night in order to _make_ the tea on behalf of the security staff. Fucking Tarquins. Did nobody stand up and say "Erm, excuse me, why the fuck is this debate even taking place?"


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 12, 2011)

When Tarquin and co argued against security having tea they should have been sorted out. You don't need wankers like that on campaigns as they just burn everyone else out. If the left had more working class people this sort of toy town politics wouldn't even be an issue.

"Ban our tea and we'll snap your incense!" 

Note: I wrote Tarquin before I saw the Tarquin in the post above. Coincidence? Or are we suffering from Tarquinaphobia?


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

I'd love to be on the campaign but unfortunately I have a job I want to hold down. And I'd only end up smacking Tarquin in the gob.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

One chap offered to resolve it by offering his propane gas burner to the seurity team on long term loan but there was a shit load of objections. At that point I had had enough and decamped to the pub.


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> WTF!?
> 
> Those cunts should have been made to stay up the night in order to _make_ the tea on behalf of the security staff. Fucking Tarquins. Did nobody stand up and say "Erm, excuse me, why the fuck is this debate even taking place?"



somebody should have stood up and said_ I refuse to dignify such a pathetic subject matter with the term debate , and the next cunt even opens his mouth on the subject shall himself be subject to a severe and unmerciful beating ._


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

If some cunt said that at work we'd all have been out the gate.


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> One chap offered to resolve it by offering his propane gas burner to the seurity team on long term loan but there was a shit load of objections. At that point I had had enough and decamped to the pub.









_ comrades , as soon as the evil system of monetary capitalism is overthrown we can have a cuppa . But not until..i paid for that milk you know...its not fair that we arent all contributing equally..and then theres the tidying up._

cant envisage that really


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> If that is the case then what are the anti fascist's tactics?



steps! give me time on that 1!!!!!!!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> steps! give me time on that 1!!!!!!!


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 12, 2011)

press quote instead of edit, read the one down there....


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Found it, this post and the ones after it are the one of the main reasons they all got nicked...
> 
> other post about shooting people and the ex combinde forces nutters would have also helped.
> 
> ...


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> press quote instead of edit, read the one down there....



as long as they dont attack during the tea break all should be fine


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 12, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> When Tarquin and co argued against security having tea they should have been sorted out. You don't need wankers like that on campaigns as they just burn everyone else out. If the left had more working class people this sort of toy town politics wouldn't even be an issue.
> 
> "Ban our tea and we'll snap your incense!"



there is a definite correlation between the amount of incense one encounters and the amount of fuckwittery one is likely to encounter . These wankers arent left wing and arent anti capitalist regardless of their claimed allegiances  . This is plainly just some social scene for them to hang out in and seek attention . They should be kicked down the road in my view .


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


spoken like a righttit


----------



## krink (Nov 12, 2011)

apparantly this photo proves edl leader is a nazi. is it the flag or the people?
i don't recognise either. ta.


----------



## newbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> One chap offered to resolve it by offering his propane gas burner to the seurity team on long term loan but there was a shit load of objections. At that point I had had enough and decamped to the pub.


This appears so preposterous I'm curious to know what the objections actually were.  Did they really not want tea being drunk in the middle of the night, not want EDL-chasers there at all or what?  More detail please.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 12, 2011)

Casually Red said:


> as long as they dont attack during the tea break all should be fine



As long as they don't attack during the great tea break *debate*, more like. When Marie Antoinette said her famous words; "_let them eat cake_" she was actually making a dig at the revolutionaries' zealousness in banning all cake from the french revolution after 10.p.m. These same Sans Culots later, ironically, used a large cake cutting machine on her. At Orgreave the teapot, kettle and the Tetley were all locked in a shed after a vote. Malcolm X would throw a wobbly just at the mention of jaffa cakes. Thus is the secret working class history of tea and buns.

But mind you, on a more serious note, the EDL/fash turnout was piss poor compared with other mobilizations they've had. 170 and many of them over 50. There's a Lol moment on youtube when one of them faints while being led away by plod. Apparently the fuckers abused non english staff in the pub and even robbed food over the counter.

Their focus on the left/unions is going to prove less popular than their abc racism that appeals to wider grunt support. Looking at some of the older ones you'd think they'd forgotten about what happened to them in the 80's and 90's.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

Attacking during the tea break is fine. Because the security aren't allowed a tea break. Or maybe they can as long as it involves not having a cup of tea.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

newbie said:


> This appears so preposterous I'm curious to know what the objections actually were. Did they really not want tea being drunk in the middle of the night, not want EDL-chasers there at all or what? More detail please.


I didn't stay to listen to the objections, too depressing, so i went to the pub.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

Whatever the objection, it'll have been a moaning fucking hippy at the other end of it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2011)




----------



## Stoat Boy (Nov 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Whatever the objection, it'll have been a moaning fucking hippy at the other end of it.



Not sure I would class hippys as being ignorant of basic civility.

I confess that I am also fascinated by this. Who could honestly object to people having the ability to have a hot drink if they have volunteered to help you out over night ? Unless you dont want their help in the first place, in which case just decline it.

And I am not sure if this is anything to do with political POV.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

Sorry to derail, it arsed me off. Back on subject, look which well known neo nazi was with the EDL mob yesterday (bottom picture)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-members-arrested-at-the-cenotaph

EDL associating with nazis at  a remembrance service, you could not make it up


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Not sure I would class hippys as being ignorant of basic civility.



Yeah, but if you scratch one what do you find?


----------



## newbie (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> I didn't stay to listen to the objections, too depressing, so i went to the pub.


you originally told us you'd had a soul destroying experience involving an hour long debate about tea making, leading to urbanites posting blood curdling threats of violence against those at the occupation. Now you say you didn't stay to listen.

I don't take the threats particularly seriously, but I do think it's rather unreasonable to post such a damning anecdote about the occupation without making any attempt to substantiate it.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

Maybe the hour was a slight exageration, it seemed like an hour. It went on for fucking ages though and quite likely went on well after I decamped to the pub. My point is, shit should not need debating full stop. Give the poor fuckers tea for christ sake.


----------



## newbie (Nov 12, 2011)

I don't doubt you're right, let them drink tea, but I asked you what the counter-arguments were.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 12, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Not sure I would class hippys as being ignorant of basic civility.


basic hygiene on the other hand...


----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

The counter argument that I bothered to listen to was it might attracts drunks into the tea tent with another being that it will encourage drinking amongst the happy campers. I was sat at the back on the steps of st pauls and could not hear a lot of the needless whining.

Maybe there was nothing better to debate on the agenda.

I am not having a go at the movement, or the majority, just the twats who partake in this sort of petty needless nonsense.

I wanted to hear some more music.


----------



## newbie (Nov 12, 2011)

ah I see, thankyou.

I can imagine it was very dull, but I can see where they're coming from, particularly if some of those insistent on the right to drink tea were threatening violence or sneering about personal hygiene.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Yeah, but if you scratch one what do you find?


 
lice


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)




----------



## Fingers (Nov 12, 2011)

Rafferty releases a statement

http://www.twitpic.com/7dgd55


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

Has he just admitted to bringing firearms into London?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2011)

if he's inventing ranks for himself why doesn't he promote himself to General?


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

Or General Secretary, seeing as he's appealing for all to unite.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 12, 2011)

CO is a job title not a rank, he could well be a general who is CO, or indeed a captain or major.

Do the CXF use British army ranks, or a mixture of all the services?

If I was going to set up the Union of Communist Ex Servicemen I think I would use ranks from the senior service and call myself "commodore".


----------



## laptop (Nov 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Has he just admitted to bringing firearms into London?



I do believe he has.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

CEO is a job title. What is CO?


----------



## laptop (Nov 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> What is CO?



Carbon Monoxide.

Commanding Officer.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)




----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> CEO is a job title. What is CO?


 
Commanding Officer ennit.

I'd like to be a batman.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

If he's ex forces I wonder which rank he actually rose to.

Isn't it considered poor to misrepresent your rank?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 12, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> If he's ex forces I wonder which rank he actually rose to.
> ?



Failing the selection process for the TA doesn't count.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Sorry to derail, it arsed me off. Back on subject, look which well known neo nazi was with the EDL mob yesterday (bottom picture)
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-members-arrested-at-the-cenotaph
> 
> EDL associating with nazis at a remembrance service, you could not make it up


Groomed from birth to be a racist


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2011)

Akela in cubs?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

LBC poll comments dominated by those lovely, non-racist, free-speech loving EDL, saviours of the British People: http://www.lbc.co.uk/lbc-poll-shoul...60_19635401_10150369847463160#f177010c7be67e8


----------



## greenman (Nov 12, 2011)

I think it is pretty clear why the EDL chose to try and target the OccupyLSX camp - it is because their "house paper", the Daily Express, hate-rag of the Fascist-Pornographer Desmond has had hate rants against OccupyLSX about every day since the occupation began. This is inbetween the usual hate rants against benefit claimants, unions, Gypsies, Muslims, public sector workers and students. Desmond and his filth are developing into a bigger threat to the safety and wellbeing of all the above groups than even the Murdoch Mafia. We should dedicate ourselve to the destruction of the vile Desmond empire - I am sure there are plenty of skeletons in his closet given his base in the porn industry.
It was the Daily Express that called for the EDL to turn itself into a political party that the paper could support - something on a par with the Daily Mail's "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" comment in the 1930s.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 12, 2011)

Other way round I think. There'd still be an edl if the daily express had never existed.


----------



## greenman (Nov 12, 2011)

It would be desirable to attack the Desmond hatred and exploitation industry even if the EDL did not exist.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 12, 2011)

Never said it wouldn't. But i don't think it's the express that made the edl attack occupy.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 12, 2011)

greenman said:


> I think it is pretty clear why the EDL chose to try and target the OccupyLSX camp - it is because their "house paper", the Daily Express, hate-rag of the Fascist-Pornographer Desmond has had hate rants against OccupyLSX about every day since the occupation began. This is inbetween the usual hate rants against benefit claimants, unions, Gypsies, Muslims, public sector workers and students. Desmond and his filth are developing into a bigger threat to the safety and wellbeing of all the above groups than even the Murdoch Mafia. We should dedicate ourselve to the destruction of the vile Desmond empire - I am sure there are plenty of skeletons in his closet given his base in the porn industry.
> *It was the Daily Express that called for the EDL to turn itself into a political party that the paper could support* - something on a par with the Daily Mail's "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" comment in the 1930s.



I'm pretty sure that was in fact the Daily Star.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 12, 2011)

The daily express has hardly mentioned the edl and when it has it's been hostile. It's simply not on their markets radar.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 12, 2011)

The Walter Mitty Society's Annual Gathering got off to a lovely start ...

_Above: EDL's paramilitary fantasists, Combined Ex-Forces (CxF)_


----------



## audiotech (Nov 12, 2011)

Cucumber sandwiches and spud guns in the shoulder bags?


----------



## john x (Nov 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The daily express has hardly mentioned the edl and when it has it's been hostile. It's simply not on their markets radar.


I think the point being made, is that it was the fabricated story in the Express that Occupy London protesters has sprayed 'baby killers' on a poppy stall, which ignited the 'official' EDL threat to the campsite.

john x


----------



## emanymton (Nov 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm pretty sure that was in fact the Daily Star.


It was the Daily star, but does Desmond not own both?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 12, 2011)

No idea.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 12, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> No idea.


According to Wikipedia he does.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 12, 2011)

john x said:


> I think the point being made, is that it was the fabricated story in the Express that Occupy London protesters has sprayed 'baby killers' on a poppy stall, which ignited the 'official' EDL threat to the campsite.
> 
> john x


That wasn't the story though. I take the point that this story might have been a motivating factor for some of these knobs - but i'm not convinced that's anything other than the usual _get your haircut, get a job_ type stuff that they have been throwing around since well _before_ the express ran its story that an occupier had called a poppy seller babykillers. And more to the point, i was saying that accusing the express of using the edl like a proxy-army is simply wrong - they're not on their radar - and even more importantly, it doesn't recognise that these goons _already have politics of their own_. They're not just sitting there waiting for a paper to tell them what to do.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 12, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> if he's inventing ranks for himself why doesn't he promote himself to General?



If he gets his clothes from Army and Navy he is quite likely confused about just how rank he is. He's probably a mix between Air raid warden, Butlins red coat, a japanese Admiral and stupid boy out of Dad's army.


----------



## john x (Nov 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> They're not just sitting there waiting for a paper to tell them what to do.



Is anyone saying that they are? 

john x


----------



## albionism (Nov 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Rafferty releases a statement
> 
> http://www.twitpic.com/7dgd55


LOL. He seems to be suggesting that
it would be good if Occupy and EDL unite!


----------



## thriller (Nov 12, 2011)

albionism said:


> LOL. He seems to be suggesting that
> it would be good if Occupy and EDL unite!



LOL


----------



## albionism (Nov 13, 2011)

Occupy the Pubs


----------



## Casually Red (Nov 13, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Attacking during the tea break is fine. Because the security aren't allowed a tea break. Or maybe they can as long as it involves not having a cup of tea.



as someone who was brought up on carry on films as a cultural reference point  it feels like theres something dreadfully "un- British" about this whole sorry episode . On armistice day too . Men died to stop nazis hell bent on substituting Tiffin with sauerkraut or some such .

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=82865


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 13, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> The Walter Mitty Society's Annual Gathering got off to a lovely start ...
> View attachment 14700
> _Above: EDL's paramilitary fantasists, Combined Ex-Forces (CxF)_



ive said it before but its worth repepating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nxo0fS2VMM

severely deluded people.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 13, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> ive said it before but its worth repepating:
> 
> severely deluded people.




Worth repepating. Defeinitely.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 13, 2011)

Anon vs EDL


----------



## Corax (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm not anti anon, but there's something a bit  about that.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 13, 2011)

*cringe*


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 13, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> The Walter Mitty Society's Annual Gathering got off to a lovely start ...
> View attachment 14700
> _Above: EDL's paramilitary fantasists, Combined Ex-Forces (CxF)_


Look up the word sad in a dictionary and you'll find that picture underneath it


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 13, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> *cringe*



x2


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 13, 2011)

That was fucking painful!

All will be forgiven if they take down redwatch though...


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 13, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What's happened in the internet tonight luther?



You're such a troll it's beyond parody.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 13, 2011)

Corax said:


> I'm not anti anon, but there's something a bit  about that.


Yes. I cringed, and I'm against mirroring Redwatch (EDL/BNP/NF/etc) / Masada2000 (JTF/JDL) vigilantism.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 13, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> x2


x4


----------



## john x (Nov 13, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> ive said it before but its worth repepating:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nxo0fS2VMM
> 
> severely deluded people.



That is spot on!

Papist rapists! 20 years before paedophile priests were exposed to all the world!

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 13, 2011)

latest on Remembrance Day Rodeos!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## john x (Nov 13, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> If he's ex forces I wonder which rank he actually rose to.



He was a corporal (same rank as Mr Jones on Dads Army!)

john x


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 13, 2011)




----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 13, 2011)

john x said:


> He was a corporal (same rank as Mr Jones on Dads Army!)
> 
> john x


lance-corporal or corporal? Jones was the former.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 13, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> lance-corporal or corporal? Jones was the former.


clegg was a corporal


----------



## john x (Nov 13, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> lance-corporal or corporal? Jones was the former.


Just a regular corporal!

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 14, 2011)

'don't panic! don't panic!' so elevating himself from corporal to commanding officer eh? crivvens! the EDL have proscribed him now. will there be anyone left to proscribe soon?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 14, 2011)

the EDL 'peacefully protesting' remembrance day! arse clowns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ8BlIuIifE&feature=player_embedded#!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 14, 2011)

more solid gold from the edl. not sure what it means but it cites all the targets!
'n u j Dazza whom set this up which government? Yes it is turning in to a police state for sure. I wish they would all just leave the country and go to a muslim country where they can get on with doing the sharia law and pracising their disturbing culture!'
who, the police?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 14, 2011)

EDLer on Facebook.
' I can't even get a job cus this country's full of illegal imergrints '
no, you can't get a job because you are illiterate.


----------



## john x (Nov 14, 2011)

EDL Jewish Division (Roberta Moore's lot) wishes Brevik good luck in court today.



john x


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)




----------



## manny-p (Nov 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



wats with the british rail hoody?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 14, 2011)

Can't afford SI off ebay.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 14, 2011)




----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 14, 2011)

ah soccer eh? ridiculous game.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

125 Club init.... they get the train about when paki bashing or something....

still this is his best video...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 14, 2011)

Some twitter bloke just slagged off edlnews. He might have done it from his phone at work or something.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

Screenshot or STFU


----------



## manny-p (Nov 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Some twitter bloke just slagged off edlnews. He might have done it from his phone at work or something.


can you screen shoot the twitter page now please.


----------



## past caring (Nov 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Screenshot or STFU



"I'll post what I like".


----------



## manny-p (Nov 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Screenshot or STFU


beat me to it


----------



## past caring (Nov 14, 2011)

It _is_ shit though - why do we need someone off twitter to tell us this?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

past caring said:


> "I'll post what I like".



Woooooooosh


----------



## past caring (Nov 14, 2011)

Cum right over your head.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

I like your story, we must have the same parents.


----------



## past caring (Nov 14, 2011)

Leg dribble


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 14, 2011)

rafferty booted out of EDL in damage limitation attempt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf9zlnSL1T0&feature=related


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 14, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> the EDL 'peacefully protesting' remembrance day! arse clowns.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ8BlIuIifE&feature=player_embedded#!


----------



## Corax (Nov 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



I apologise to our Welsh members, but I find it hard to take him seriously when to my ears he sounds like Uncle Bryn.


----------



## john x (Nov 14, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> rafferty booted out of EDL in damage limitation attempt.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf9zlnSL1T0&feature=related


Not sure about Windsor Davies being the best shouter ever.

I think Rafferty could give him a run for his money with his "Why are they letting Shania law in....'cos the goverment are all fucking paedos!!!" speech, at Blackpool.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> I apologise to our Welsh members, but I find it hard to take him seriously when to my ears he sounds like Uncle Bryn.



I like how over the 2 years i have seen his videos, he has moved up from fosters to a nice glass of wine.


----------



## cantsin (Nov 14, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> the EDL 'peacefully protesting' remembrance day! arse clowns.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ8BlIuIifE&feature=player_embedded#!



it's the OB causing trouble there surely ?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

Withtout being able to see what is going on in the pub it's hard to say really.....

you may notice there all looking in the windows and stuff so i would guess something was kicking off inside?


----------



## manny-p (Nov 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> you may notice there all looking in the windows and stuff so i would guess something was kicking off inside?



edit.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 14, 2011)

I have it on good authority that some piss-heads coming out with "Hitler was right" comments were harassing the occupy Leeds set-up in City Square. This involved attempting to rip down tents. I've queried this and it's been confirmed. That's all I have presently.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

did anyone screen shot the pub?


----------



## john x (Nov 14, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Withtout being able to see what is going on in the pub it's hard to say really.....



Some of the EDL inside were giving racist abuse to a Polish bar maid while others were trying to steal food from behind the counter. When the manager told them to stop they started to kick off with one of them swinging a barstool around then lobbing it at the manager. Meanwhile a fight had broken out between some of the EDLrs. The polis were called and asked them to leave and they were told to fuck off, at which point the cops attempted to get them out of the pub.

Apparently none of the staff knew they were EDL (none of the bar staff had ever heard of the EDL) and just thought they were football hooligans not connected with the Remembrance ceremony.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

so infiltrator commie scum, trying to make the EDL look bad then?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 14, 2011)

cantsin said:


> it's the OB causing trouble there surely ?


listen to the video - you can hear it kick off inside before police enter.


----------



## john x (Nov 14, 2011)

Bob, was that WDL video a pisstake?

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 14, 2011)

Either that or im in the WDL?


----------



## cantsin (Nov 14, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> listen to the video - you can hear it kick off inside before police enter.


true, it does sound/look like that


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2011)

Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:

*Key findings*
We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–35,000 people

The received wisdom that the EDL is a street based movement comprised of young thugs needs to be revised Supporters are older and more educated than many assume: 28 per cent are over 30; 30 per cent are educated to university or college level

They are disproportionately likely to be out of work

The EDL contains democrats

Immigration is the biggest concern among EDL supporters

The BNP is the most popular political party among EDL supporters

Supporters have low levels of ‘social capital’ and high levels of pessimism

Supporters join the EDL because of a combination of opposition to Islam or Islamism, and to preserve national and cultural values

Supporters demonstrate for the EDL because of a sense of injustice and pessimism combined with a belief that politics can make a difference


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 15, 2011)

of course they're disproportionately likely to be out of work. they're disproportionately likely to be pissed as fuck by opening.


----------



## john x (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:





> which comprises responses from 1,295 sympathisers and supporters,



I know at least 10 people who filled in that questionnaire*. If you extrapolate that, how many real EDL supporters actually contributed? Also as far as the degree of education of the average EDL supporters is assessed, the questionnaire itself filters out those who don't like 'filling in forms because it is too complicated'.

john x

*Just to point out that none of these people was an EDL sympathiser/supporter.


----------



## TruXta (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:
> 
> *Key findings*
> We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–35,000 people
> ...



Seems like an awfully high number. What do they base it on?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Seems like an awfully high number. What do they base it on?


The internet!


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Supporters have low levels of ‘social capital’ and high levels of pessimism


 
Don't we all.


----------



## TruXta (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The internet!



What, did they count the number of members on their FB pages?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Don't we all.


 
lol


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2011)

TruXta said:


> What, did they count the number of members on their FB pages?


Pretty much, see from page 16 onwards.


----------



## TruXta (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Pretty much, see from page 16 onwards.



Sorry, haven't got time to read it, and tbh not the inclination either. That's incredibly shoddy research if what you say is the case.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 15, 2011)

> The EDL contains democrats



Really don't get this statement. Are they saying most EDL members support dictatorship or the GOP?


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## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2011)

People who believe in representative parliamentary democracy - voting etc


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## Red Storm (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> People who believe in representative parliamentary democracy - voting etc



The way you put it implies that most don't, is that the case?


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## The39thStep (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:
> 
> *Key findings*
> We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–35,000 people
> ...



This is pretty much a rehash of Goodwins research on the far right. Not sure that it would be too diffrent if they did the same with the cobweb left and anarchists to be honest


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## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> The way you put it implies that most don't, is that the case?


What the report is addressing is the perception that some people _outside the group_ have of them as supporting some form of fascist or authoritarian regime. It's pointing out that (based on their research) a clear majority believe in those things i listed.


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## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> This is pretty much a rehash of Goodwins research on the far right. Not sure that it would be too diffrent if they did the same with the cobweb left and anarchists to be honest


There's laods of these around at the minute. Copesey did one too.


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## Red Storm (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What the report is addressing is the perception that some people _outside the group_ have of them as supporting some form of fascist or authoritarian regime. It's pointing out that (based on their research) a clear majority believe in those things i listed.



Right that's what I would have thought. I just misinterpreted how you wrote it.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Nov 15, 2011)

TruXta said:


> What, did they count the number of members on their FB pages?


the important thing to realise in the context of that report (which is something that the authors themselves acknowledge) is that there is no formal membership mechanism for the EDL, so they hazard a guess as to the number of "supporters" from simple metrics on facebook and the more in-depth follow up interviews.


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## Stoat Boy (Nov 15, 2011)

Out of interest what do you all make of the opening line...

"The English Defence League (EDL) is the biggest populist street movement in a generation".

Hyperbole or fact ?


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## Corax (Nov 15, 2011)

I've only skimmed certain sections so far, but I've not found anything in their methodology to take account of bullshitting as yet.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Out of interest what do you all make of the opening line...
> 
> "The English Defence League (EDL) is the biggest populist street movement in a generation".
> 
> Hyperbole or fact ?


 
They've never got as many boots on the ground as the STW lot or the TUC march of last year. Its gross hyperbole.

I do wonder if the reports coming about aren't motivated by the panicky suspicion that political polarisation and street politics will/do arise during times of economic badness?


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## Corax (Nov 15, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> They've never got as many boots on the ground as the STW lot or the TUC march of last year. Its gross hyperbole.
> 
> I do wonder if the reports coming about aren't motivated by the panicky suspicion that political polarisation and street politics will/do arise during times of economic badness?


Dunno what 'motivated' means in that context, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case that as movements grow in times of economic shite they catch the eye of researchers more at those times.


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## audiotech (Nov 15, 2011)

@ Stoatboy

A claim here that puts NF membership at 21,000 in 1975. Doubtful? The figure of 14,000 in '77 would be about right.

Scholars agree that the British Union of Fascists had somewhere in the region of 40,000 at its peak in 1934.

To add (I know they had removed themselves from the streets): The BNP claimed in May 2010 that it '"crashed through" to over 14,000 members for the first time in its history', but that's not the first time in history that the BNP have lied about its membership figures.


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## Red Storm (Nov 15, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> They've never got as many boots on the ground as the STW lot or the TUC march of last year. Its gross hyperbole.
> 
> I do wonder if the reports coming about aren't motivated by the panicky suspicion that political polarisation and street politics will/do arise during times of economic badness?



The student demonstrations was a movement about 5 times larger than the EDL. UKUncut would be in the running for being bigger too. Before the anti-fees student movement I'd say that the EDL was probably the largest street movement. I don't know how long a period of time that was off the top of my head but it ended on the 10/11/10.

I suppose it's how you're defining "popularist" though.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 15, 2011)

john x said:


> I know at least 10 people who filled in that questionnaire*. If you extrapolate that, how many real EDL supporters actually contributed? Also as far as the degree of education of the average EDL supporters is assessed, the questionnaire itself filters out those who don't like 'filling in forms because it is too complicated'.
> 
> john x
> 
> *Just to point out that none of these people was an EDL sympathiser/supporter.



I filled it in, remember it well.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2011)

Corax said:


> Dunno what '*motivated*' means in that context, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case that as movements grow in times of economic shite they catch the eye of researchers more at those times.


 
motivated as in interested people undertake analysis due to social conditions being similar to other times when street politics have come to the fore, leading to analysis by people who are thinking about history and so on. I am no expert though so there i every chance my hypothesis is bollocks


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## Corax (Nov 15, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> motivated as in interested people undertake analysis due to social conditions being similar to other times when street politics have come to the fore, leading to analysis by people who are thinking about history and so on. I am no expert though so there i every chance my hypothesis is bollocks


Sounds pretty much like what I wrote in the post you quoted. Sorry - I wasn't having a dig or anything, just wasn't sure what you meant by motivated in that context.


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## audiotech (Nov 15, 2011)

This is Zizek quoting Gramsci in a recent televised debate, that bears some relevance to what is happening in the world right now:



> "The old world is dying away, and the new world struggles to come forth, now is the time of monsters." What about the monsters we are engendering now? Perhaps there is no direct passage to the new? Perhaps we have to go through a time of monsters?



But he also mentioned Orwell who said that 'intellectuals cheat'.


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## john x (Nov 15, 2011)

> We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–
> 35,000 people
> Of these, around half have been involved in demonstrations and/or
> marches.



Oh really?

How do you work that out then?

john x


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2011)

Corax said:


> Sounds pretty much like what I wrote in the post you quoted. Sorry - I wasn't having a dig or anything, just wasn't sure what you meant by motivated in that context.



aye you divined my meaning clear enough. On a wider point the EDL may well be dying on its arse as it is riven with splits and nickings and (bet you a tenner) infiltrated by state. But the polarisation wound up by the exacerbation of existing tensions due to every cunt being poor will no doubt outlive the slaphead sad sacks. I'm all worried.


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## Corax (Nov 15, 2011)

There'll always be 'an' EDL


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## josef1878 (Nov 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Flicking through the panicky demos report Inside the edl:
> 
> *Key findings*
> We estimate the total size of the active membership to be at least 25,000–35,000 people
> ...


----------



## Corax (Nov 15, 2011)

Bold post.


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## SpineyNorman (Nov 15, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> They've never got as many boots on the ground as the STW lot or the TUC march of last year. Its gross hyperbole.
> 
> I do wonder if the reports coming about aren't motivated by the panicky suspicion that political polarisation and street politics will/do arise during times of economic badness?



Maybe they don't class STW and the TUC march as "populist"?


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## josef1878 (Nov 15, 2011)

Corax said:


> Bold post.



Dunno what happened there. I'll take off the 78" of Adolf's speeches i've been listening to, its messing with my typing finger.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 15, 2011)

josef1878 said:


> Dunno what happened there. I'll take off the 78" of Adolf's speeches i've been listening to, its messing with my typing finger.


78"? 

how did you get a turntable which would take six and a half foot records?


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## josef1878 (Nov 16, 2011)

Hahaha i like the thought of that. At least you would be able to read the fuckin covers


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## audiotech (Nov 16, 2011)

A popular pastime used to see fathers gently applying heat to 78's then formed and shaped into plant pots I kid you not.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 16, 2011)

I really don't know what the motives of Demos were. It's possible they wanted justification for Labour still tilting towards the right on migration and cultural issues. I filled it out with a fair degree of sarky bollocks. 35 to 40k active members is utter nonsense, unless "active" means the occasional online whinge about muslamics. The EDL doesn't even have a membership as such, but Cokeboy used to (stupidly) cite the amount of Faceache likes. Before the page got hacked on St Georges day I think this was running at somewhere over 80k. Which is to say Demos calcualte that slightly less than a half of people who made 1 click qualify as "active". It rather blows the cred out of the water. The rest of what they say is pretty much Dept of The Bleeding Obvious as well. How much did they get paid?


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## Ranbay (Nov 16, 2011)

It was at just over 100K when he went on Newsnight just after the ABB thingy...

now it's about 18k and a good 20-30 of them are me alone.


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## john x (Nov 16, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> 35 to 40k active members is utter nonsense, unless "active" means the occasional online whinge about muslamics......... Before the page got hacked on St Georges day I think this was running at somewhere over 80k.



I don't know much about Demos but I would humbly suggest that their research and analytical skills are pretty poor.

First off, I would say that if, as they claim, most of their research was done on the internets, they would have quickly ascertained that there was an online campaign to take the piss out of the survey and should have at least made an attempt to calculate what percentage were genuine EDL supporters. Failing that, they should have mentioned that the 1200-odd responses may have contained some from those who would not be described as EDL supporters/sympathisers.

More importantly, the St George's Day hacking of their facebook page has actually given them an ideal opportunity to analyse in greater depth exactly what a 'facebook like' actually means in terms of support. The 80K 'likes' which the EDL initially got, were achieved fairly rapidly and since the hacking, has struggled to reach even a quarter of that number. That in itself shows that in all probability most original 'likes' were effectively a knee jerk reaction to the question "Aren't you outraged by those who burned our poppies?" Also at that time the EDL was new and this was when there was a Sikh Division, a Jewish Division and a number of non-white faces on their marches. Something which drew a clear line between the EDL and other far-right groupings. Because of that a number of people who were genuinely non-racist did and still do support the EDL.

So what happened after their page was hacked? Well what didn't happen was that as soon as the page was re-established, 80,000 people logged on to the EDL facebook page and clicked the 'like' button. So what had happened between then and the halcyon days of 2009?

Well for a start, the majority of EDL demos had ended in violence. This in itself has put much of the 'non-hooligan' support off. The incidents of racist language used on demos has also increased virtually excluding non-white attendance at their rallies. Apart from one black face at the Angles demo at Downing Street, I can't remember the last time I saw a non-white face at an EDL event. Then there was the prevalence of nazi salutes given by EDL supporters at rallies which put off those who were genuinely not part of the far-right political scene. Even their attempts to reduce this was motivated by PR considerations (it looks bad!) rather than political ones (it's wrong!) And then there was the increasing number of criminal cases involving EDL supporters, many of them involving their leader Tommy Robinson. Added to this were the questions being asked as to where the literally tens of thousands of pounds raised by EDL merchandising had gone. Questions were also asked about what support was there, for those increasing numbers of 'ordinary supporters' being dragged through the courts as a result of EDL activities. No cash collections for them. No pickets outside court buildings and no e-petitions started for them, once convicted. This was illustrated perfectly a few months ago, when the partner of someone about to go to court posted an appeal for the details of the local EDL regional organiser as they needed help. This appeal was repeated a number of times over the next week with increasing desperation. You could almost hear the tumbleweeds blowing across the page. And this was the same week the EDL leadership raised over £3000 for Robinson's non-existent hunger strike.

So there are plenty of reasons why the 80K facebook 'likes' were not to return. But I would contend that by far and away the biggest reason for this, was that most of those original 'likes' had no idea that their 'support' was needed again, simply because once they had clicked their original 'like' two years ago, most had never visited an EDL page again. This is a point which has been glaringly overlooked by Demos in their attempt to gauge 'active' support as is their refusal to acknowledge that most supporters north of Nottingham have now defected to the Infidels.

Active support for the EDL? I'd say a more realistic figure was less than 500 now.

john x


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## malatesta32 (Nov 16, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> aye you divined my meaning clear enough. On a wider point the EDL may well be dying on its arse as it is riven with splits and nickings and (bet you a tenner) infiltrated by state. But the polarisation wound up by the exacerbation of existing tensions due to every cunt being poor will no doubt outlive the slaphead sad sacks. I'm all worried.



yeah and 170 at remembrance, no more than a few hundred the week before, all the splits post tower hamelts and birmingham, the missing money, 'tommy', the fall outs engendered by hel 'hath no fury' gower, etc etc.


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## The39thStep (Nov 16, 2011)

john x said:


> I don't know much about Demos but I would humbly suggest that their research and analytical skills are pretty poor.
> 
> First off, I would say that if, as they claim, most of their research was done on the internets, they would have quickly ascertained that there was an online campaign to take the piss out of the survey and should have at least made an attempt to calculate what percentage were genuine EDL supporters. Failing that, they should have mentioned that the 1200-odd responses may have contained some from those who would not be described as EDL supporters/sympathisers.
> 
> ...



Demos are very influential especially with Labour and civil servants at DCLG and Home Office


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## Fingers (Nov 16, 2011)

Rafferty has been sacked

http://twitpic.com/7ezu6t

But he has just issued a statement claiming they can't sack him and he is going to sack them

There is a coup going on within the ranks of the CxF. Fantasic stuff!


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## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 16, 2011)

I imagine the acting CO has been appointed due to his spelling and grammer.


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## john x (Nov 16, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Demos are very influential especially with Labour and civil servants at DCLG and Home Office


They may well be, but that doesn't alter the fact that this is a piss-poor report!

john x


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## Red Storm (Nov 16, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Rafferty has been sacked
> 
> http://twitpic.com/7ezu6t
> 
> ...



It's like they are playing soldiers or something. Where do they get off talking about a council and a figure head there are only about 50 of them! They're hardly the UVF.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 16, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> *It's like they are playing soldiers or something.* Where do they get off talking about a council and a figure head there are only about 50 of them! They're hardly the UVF.



Question answered before its asked.


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## malatesta32 (Nov 16, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> If that is the case then what are the anti fascist's tactics?



feck, it just took me ages to find this steps! here we go:
*For further discussion! *
A national united front of militants needs to be organised to respond to and counter fascist activity. This is not to be a sole purpose as there are other things going on after all. 
Anarchists, leftists, local socialists etc, who are up for physical opposition can work together in local groups who agree that physical opposition is the task at hand. AFA did! 
On a micro-level: local action needs to be decided by consensus and groups should have rotating duties: phone networking, propaganda, websites, chairing etc. 
Physical opposition is needed when situations like Newcastle etc have occurred. EDL/Infidels flash demos are not a major threat but they will take liberties which we need to counter. 
If possible, links with militant local Muslim youth who are game (depends where you are). 
No party politics, single issue only, no paper sellers. Anti-fascist front first! 
Community resistance needs developing in certain areas (Leeds, Newcastle, London) and also groups to steward meetings, demos etc, if attacks are likely (Brighton, Leeds gig etc). 
There are possible militants in SWP, UAF etc and meetings can be attended to check for ‘candidates.’ We know what we are looking for.  
At the moment electorally the BNP are knacked and have lost credibility (and ££££s). The far right are divided between the alphabetti spaghetti of ED, Fluffy BF, UKIP etc and some of the more disappointed BNP have gone over to the NF who are still weak. However, the fluffier brands of  ‘nationalism’ are small and rely on single issue voting and are unlikely to make serious inroads like the BNP once did. It’s an anti-EU/’Muslamics’ votes. 
There is no reason for not having an informal network of local antifascists to respond to events and to be in contact with others around UK to mobilise en masse for larger events, and regionally for others. 

okay, i'm ready! x


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## malatesta32 (Nov 16, 2011)

and another thing!
http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress.com/


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## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 16, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> feck, it just took me ages to find this steps! here we go:
> *For further discussion! *
> A national united front of militants needs to be organised to respond to and counter fascist activity. This is not to be a sole purpose as there are other things going on after all.
> Anarchists, leftists, local socialists etc, who are up for physical opposition can work together in local groups who agree that physical opposition is the task at hand. AFA did!
> ...



All very good - but what about a political formation that can address the reasons a substantial and frankly growing (despite what HnH and the like claim) section of the working class are willing to vote for and publically hitch their colours to the mast of a clearly populist racist nationalist party, rather than looking to progressive class based politics for answers?

The BNP may be in the middle of a long predicted by many implosion but that is due to a complex set of reasons - none of which are connected to electoral oblvion (other than possibly contributing to it) but the large group that vote or have voted for them haven't gone away or expressed any change in basic politics as far as I can see.

Certainly in Newcastle and the North East we do not need community resistance to a gaggle of far right hooligan clowns, paedos, alkies, and tattooist bikers - we need effective community resistance to the massive attacks on our living standards, services, jobs, and dignity, and it needs to unite people on a progressive class basis/


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## Red Storm (Nov 16, 2011)

I





malatesta32 said:


> feck, it just took me ages to find this steps! here we go:
> *For further discussion! *
> A national united front of militants needs to be organised to respond to and counter fascist activity. This is not to be a sole purpose as there are other things going on after all.
> Anarchists, leftists, local socialists etc, who are up for physical opposition can work together in local groups who agree that physical opposition is the task at hand. AFA did!
> ...



I've been part of an organisation in Manchester that has been trying that for the past two years and I'm now beginning to question its practicality and usefulness. 

I think the key issue has been said by Spanky Longhorn.


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## Fingers (Nov 16, 2011)

Rafferty seems to have retaken control of CxF and has booted people smuggler Alan Cleverley who it seems instigated it. Rafferty is not giving up power as he claims he owns the trademark 'CxF'.


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## Corax (Nov 16, 2011)

ORLY?





> Apache CXF, CXF, Apache, the Apache feather logo are trademarks of The Apache Software Foundation.
> All other marks mentioned may be trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective owners.


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## The39thStep (Nov 17, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> feck, it just took me ages to find this steps! here we go:
> *For further discussion! *
> A national united front of militants needs to be organised to respond to and counter fascist activity. This is not to be a sole purpose as there are other things going on after all.
> Anarchists, leftists, local socialists etc, who are up for physical opposition can work together in local groups who agree that physical opposition is the task at hand. AFA did!
> ...



Its just one dimensional anti fascism  Malatesta with no local political alternative for the white working class.


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## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2011)

steps, whaddya want? a miracle? i voted for mr dave and sepp blatter says theres no racism anywhere in the world ever, so we're fine.
seriously: i dont think the far right present an electoral threat, they are annoying when they come to yr town and need to be told! i wd be interested in what the IWCA folks on here think of their strategy - for this and also for the 'malatesta' book. i really don't know on that side of things.


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## Demu (Nov 17, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> steps, whaddya want? a miracle? i voted for mr dave and sepp blatter says theres no racism anywhere in the world ever, so we're fine.
> seriously: i dont think the far right present an electoral threat, they are annoying when they come to yr town and need to be told! i wd be interested in what the IWCA folks on here think of their strategy - for this and also for the 'malatesta' book. i really don't know on that side of things.



are you sure you should be writing a book..........just yet?


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## Joe Reilly (Nov 17, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Its just one dimensional anti fascism Malatesta with no local political alternative for the white working class.



...and the black and asian working class.


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## Citizen66 (Nov 17, 2011)

Yes. It's 'the working class'. Although Joe Reilly will probably be the first to admit that it's predominantly the white working class who join fascist organisations. That doesn't mean the left suddenly has a rights for whites campaign. It's been done already.


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## Deareg (Nov 17, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=htt...QEiPaE1AQHTQCl6EE9uKMBPoEk_J08I96a1Ffvw-3B8wg


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## Ranbay (Nov 18, 2011)

http://www.european-freedom-initiat...tish-freedom&catid=8:eu-news-england&Itemid=8

LOL


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## albionism (Nov 18, 2011)

Fuck me! have you had a look at their website 
They even blame immigrants for damaging the environment.


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## The39thStep (Nov 18, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> steps, whaddya want? a miracle? i voted for mr dave and sepp blatter says theres no racism anywhere in the world ever, so we're fine.
> seriously: i dont think the far right present an electoral threat, they are annoying when they come to yr town and need to be told! i wd be interested in what the IWCA folks on here think of their strategy - for this and also for the 'malatesta' book. i really don't know on that side of things.



What was your strategy when the BNP were an electoral threat?


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## Pickman's model (Nov 18, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> steps, whaddya want? a miracle? i voted for mr dave and sepp blatter says theres no racism anywhere in the world ever, so we're fine.
> seriously: i dont think the far right present an electoral threat, they are annoying when they come to yr town and need to be told! i wd be interested in what the IWCA folks on here think of their strategy - for this and also for the 'malatesta' book. i really don't know on that side of things.


the far right do present an electoral threat, as might be recalled from the bnp's election results of a couple of years ago when griffin and brons became euro mps. a better organised and more flexible party without the failings of the bnp could have built on the number of votes they got, increasing them for the general election. frankly, when the far right don't present an electoral threat right now because of their incompetence and infighting, it is no time to be complacent because someone like paul golding or andrew brons could imo present a rather greater electoral threat than nick griffin. and what about ukip and the english democrats? sure, they won't take power tomorrow or in five years time. but when the far right do well electorally, gaining councillors or euro mps, it nudges the other parties towards the right, meaning that they don't have to be elected for portions of their agenda to be adopted.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 18, 2011)

Tommy Robinson to leave EDL for fluffy fascists British Freedom and career in electoral politics.
Following in the footsteps of Paul Weston who left UKIP to take up chair of British Freedom 2 weeks ago

Screengrab of website here (with comments): http://twitpic.com/7fr1eb
Read the screengrab before you read Delroy's post below!


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 18, 2011)

Is there any truth in this or is it just wild speculation? It wouldn't surprise me to be honest. Where else can he go?

If this is the case the EDL is dead. All that remains in the wake of it's passing will be the infidels/NF on the streets up north and the British Freedom party, which is miniscule. CxF barely warrant a mention, they seem to have taken the place the fondly-remembered British Freedom Fighters and Wigan Mike once occupied as the comic relief on the lunatic fringe of the far right.

So how many far-right organizations are there now currently in existence in the UK? Let's have a quick run-down


Nick Griffin's BNP (what's left thereof)
The Andrew Brons BNP faction (who announced they will not be renewing their BNP memberships)
English Democrats (Who have taken in a few ex-BNP, notably Eddy Butler, into their ranks)
UKIP (perhaps not all "far-right" but still wankers)
British Freedom (Who have a small membership that includes Simon Bennett ex-BNP webmaster and now Stephen Lennon)
National Front & The Infidels & SDL
Casuals United (Who recruit mainly from football firms, were linked to EDL, not sure where they'll go now
The EDL (what's left thereof)
Are there any I've missed in that roundup? probably a few very small ones, but these are the ones I'm mainy interested in. It's going to be interested to see what direction these groups take, which will end up developing and which will disappear. It's even worse than the left for bitterness and sectarianism y'know.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 18, 2011)

you've missed paul golding's britain first


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 18, 2011)

Oh aye shit I knew there was one. Also, what about in Northern Ireland and Scotland, there's probably groups up there that i've missed.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 18, 2011)

Might be an idea to remove the link to the anti-Muslim blogspot, Delroy!
I screengrabbed the page so we don't bump their stats or appear on them: http://twitpic.com/7fr1eb


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 18, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Might be an idea to remove the link to the anti-Muslim blogspot, Delroy!
> I screengrabbed the page so we don't bump their stats or appear on them: http://twitpic.com/7fr1eb



gonna have to delete the text coz its full of links also


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## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Is there any truth in this or is it just wild speculation? It wouldn't surprise me to be honest. Where else can he go?
> 
> If this is the case the EDL is dead. All that remains in the wake of it's passing will be the infidels/NF on the streets up north and the British Freedom party, which is miniscule. CxF barely warrant a mention, they seem to have taken the place the fondly-remembered British Freedom Fighters and Wigan Mike once occupied as the comic relief on the lunatic fringe of the far right.
> 
> ...



I think there's a danger putting UKIP in a list of the far-right, it gives the far-right too much credibility in view of the numbers of MEPs they have and votes they get, most of which are only gained on the single issue of the EU - an issue of concern to many right across the political spectrum.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 18, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> gonna have to delete the text coz its full of links also


Uploaded an image of the text.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 18, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> I think there's a danger putting UKIP in a list of the far-right, it gives the far-right too much credibility in view of the numbers of MEPs they have and votes they get, most of which are only gained on the single issue of the EU - an issue of concern to many right across the political spectrum.


Listen/Read to Batten's speeches - UKIP belongs on far-right imo (his Counterjihad conference 2007 speech especially)


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2011)

The UKIP were the best electoral friend mainstream official anti-fascism ever had.

And iirc a ukip vote in a seat where the BNP was standing was seen as an anti-fascist vote by both UAF and HnH.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 18, 2011)

It's hard to call isn't it, on the one hand they're clearly not fascist in the same way that the BNP could be described as such, but don't let that distract from some of the very nasty stuff they come out with from time to time. Theres' definitely a substatial chunk of their membership which is of that persuasion, which again is probably larger in size than such small groups as British Freedom or Britain First, so you can't ignore them.

Plus I can see them specifically targeting ex-BNP and ex-EDL members and activists and voters, they may go even further in that direction in the future.


----------



## Corax (Nov 18, 2011)

albionism said:


> They even blame immigrants for damaging the environment.


well how do you think they get here eh?


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Listen/Read to Batten's speeches - UKIP belongs on far-right imo (his Counterjihad conference 2007 speech especially)



That speech, IIRC, was nowhere near the rants you would get from the likes of the BNP & EDL, as distasteful as it maybe.

I know a few people that have voted UKIP, that would never consider voting BNP, and had a long conversation with their local candidate after the political hustings I attended prior to the last general election, as bonkers as they maybe they are certainly nowhere near the gutter-level of what most people would consider far-right politics.

But, my main point remains - to label them as such gives the far-right too much credibility, clearly they are right of the current Tory party, but on the cunt-o-meter they fall well short of the BNP/EDL arena IME.


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## Fingers (Nov 18, 2011)

Interesting times, and what a fuck up releasing this today. EDL members must be well pissed off.  Over at CxF much confusion still reigns with no one seeming to know who is in charge

Latest steaming pile of bollocks from them

*CxF Council News. CxF Council News. CxF Council News.

 Tonight 21.11.11. I the RSM of CxF took part in a CxF Council meeting.

 The outcome of the meeting was the Following.
 ... 
 Michael Rafferty our former Commanding Officer was formerly removed as C.O. of Combined Ex-Forces for gross misconduct, the circumstances will be seen below.

 This was a unanimous decision by the council after all the facts were brought to there attention.

 The 2i/c Senior Major CxF James was unanimously voted to be appointed as the new Commanding Officer of CxF, This appointment is immediate.

 The Adjutant will carry on as adjutant and acting 2i/c untill a new 2 I/c is appointed at a later date.

 I want to say that Michael Rafferty is a man with passion who has worked hard for the CxF, he is the founding force behind it but he has now become out of control.

 Michael Rafferty was also one of the founders of the CxF Governing Council, he was in favour of it, he was a member of it and he knew he could be dismissed by it, This can be seen by the fact that just before CxF went to 10 Downing Street Michael Rafferty was dismissed by the council and then re-instated as C.O. by the council in order that he could if asked tell the truth and say he was not self appointed.

 The same applies with the council giving the C.O. orders, Michael Rafferty is not above taking orders from the council and indeed he did just that when he was ordered by the council not to break his police bail conditions and go to 10 Downing Street.

 On that occasion he was happy to follow the councils orders but it now seems that he believes himself above the council and indeed above every one in the CxF.

 The Bottom line is that Michael Rafferty is acting as a Dictator and believes he should be in sole charge of the CxF and he alone should make policy and promote and demote as his whim dictates.

 Now we must understand why this unrest within CxF has come about.

 This came about because Michael Rafferty’s new girl friend chose to be offended and accuse me of racism because of a post I put up in a CxF room.

 The offending words were “rag headed Paki Cunts” Now I believe I should quantify the reason for my words and why I believe I cannot be thought of as a resist.

 The words Rag Head’s is what we have always called Arabs in the British Army, they call us ? Kuffar’s, now the word Paki is short for Pakistani and they call themselves Paki’s as in the statement that “the Paki Army is going to take over Britain” which I find offensive.

 Why is it politically incorrect to say Paki but it is OK to call someone from Kurdistan a Kurd ? or an Uzbekistani an Uzbek ? an Afghanistani an Afghan And then it is OK to call someone from these Islands a Brit rather than British or an Australian an Auzie then there is the Jock’s and Paddy’s and Taffy’s, I was under the impression that in the CxF there were no holds bard? also I have herd Michael Rafferty refer to our enemies as Rag Heads and Paki’s in the past and so I find him removing my post as hypocritical. 

 On top of this I am the farther of 4 mixed race sons (All different) so how am I showing racist inclinations.

 But on top of that the people who are our main enemy is not only Muslims but a very large % are in fact the largest % happen to be Pakistani.

 That is the reason for this upheaval within CxF.

 It was escalated when Michael Rafferty’s new girlfriend persuaded him to remove my posts which frankly dose not bother me, however the 2i/c and the Adjutant then got involved when she told them that she had dealt with me, and it was explained to her that she did not have the authority to deal with anyone, let alone the RSM and that any disciplinary measures would be done only by the council and there was a procedure and chain of command.

 Many of our members will recall the problems caused by Michael Rafferty’s last girlfriend in Plymouth who like this girlfriend was placed in to positions of some influence as soon as she became involved with Michael and this has happened again, this girl had nothing to do with the CxF before our visit to 10 Downing Street but was suddenly in all CxF rooms and an admin in many within two weeks.

 Because of this Michael Rafferty then became involved and started dismissing people, It is not in Michael Rafferty’s gift to dismiss or promote officers and senior Weren’t Officers of the CxF, this is the prerogative of the CxF Council. 

 Our commanding officer must be a man of integrity who can not only give orders but can also take them and who can control his emotions, the CxF is not a privet fiefdom with a Dictator at it head.

 Alan Cleverly CxF RSM. (Member of CxF Council)*


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## Ranbay (Nov 18, 2011)

Better than Eastenders.....


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## love detective (Nov 18, 2011)

> why I believe I cannot be thought of as a resist.



resist cunts


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 18, 2011)

That's the funniest thing i've ever read in my life. That's completely beyond parody.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2011)

I can't believe these prats have appointed a pretend RSM as well. I can believe that they've had a barney cos someones mrs spotted the massive racism. Wannabe contras lol


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## claphamboy (Nov 18, 2011)

> *Why is it politically incorrect to say Paki but it is OK to call someone from Kurdistan a Kurd ? or an Uzbekistani an Uzbek ? an Afghanistani an Afghan And then it is OK to call someone from these Islands a Brit rather than British or an Australian an Auzie then there is the Jock’s and Paddy’s and Taffy’s*



[nightclub doorman] none of those are coming in without a Thai [/nightclub doorman]

*collects coat, after stealing that from the new jokes thread*


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## Fingers (Nov 18, 2011)

To sum it up, Rafferty has been booted out for not being racist enough


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Interesting times, and what a fuck up releasing this today. EDL members must be well pissed off. Over at CxF much confusion still reigns with no one seeming to know who is in charge
> 
> Latest steaming pile of bollocks from them
> 
> ...


_For thirty pages I am driven on by the steam hammer of polemic. For thirty pages the focus of my own thought dims the images that do not stand in the very forefront of my vision. And yet for thirty pages, now with diffidence, now with a persistence, a doubt nags at my mind. I write swept on by the momentum of political invective till pausing for a moment a nagging doubt seizes and snares my mind. I wonder whether ... I haven't perhaps overplayed my hand ... I wonder if I haven't been unfair ... But I tear myself away. The piston rod of determined argument forces me on ... Unwilling to submit to doubt and unwilling to stop for scrutiny, the momentum of the polemic takes me up again. Its own internal logic driving past any signposts of doubt, past any warning lights of circumspection_


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## elbows (Nov 18, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Latest steaming pile of bollocks from them
> * the CxF is not a privet fiefdom with a Dictator at it head.*


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## Fingers (Nov 18, 2011)

CxF update!

The council never sanctioned the removal or the suspension of Mike Rafferty, CO Cxf

As a member of the council, I was not asked to vote on any such action, nobody on the council was asked to vote, no meeting was called!

Paul James who was the adjutant at the time, removed the CO illegally, with no backing or authorization of the council!

When members of the council acted without authority and without the full backing of the council, in the name of the council, the council itself became void.

The so called vote for a new CO was held illegally the day after the initial act of mutiny.

A few members of the council say they were replacing a dictator, but the act itself was an act of a dictatorship, there was no vote before the CO was replaced.

Council of 9

Alan cleverly

James Devine

Paul James

Peter Joseph

Smiling Michael

George Windsor

Paul Owens

Carl Browne

Michael Rafferty

A meeting of the council should have been called, if there are less than 5 people at the meeting the council could not carry a vote.



The CO Mike Rafferty would not take part in a vote, unless the vote was a draw, then the CO would cast the deciding vote



Who voted for the adjutant to replace the CO?


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## love detective (Nov 18, 2011)

> Smiling Michael


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## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2011)

> The CO Mike Rafferty would not take part in a vote, unless the vote was a draw, then the CO would cast the deciding vote



epic grasp of democratic process


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## love detective (Nov 18, 2011)

not sure they claim to abide by any kind of democracy - but the concept of a casting vote for the chair is a fairly common thing (especially in companies and unincorporated associations)


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## newbie (Nov 18, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> _For thirty pages I am driven on by the steam hammer of polemic. For thirty pages the focus of my own thought dims the images that do not stand in the very forefront of my vision. And yet for thirty pages, now with diffidence, now with a persistence, a doubt nags at my mind. I write swept on by the momentum of political invective till pausing for a moment a nagging doubt seizes and snares my mind. I wonder whether ... I haven't perhaps overplayed my hand ... I wonder if I haven't been unfair ... But I tear myself away. The piston rod of determined argument forces me on ... Unwilling to submit to doubt and unwilling to stop for scrutiny, the momentum of the polemic takes me up again. Its own internal logic driving past any signposts of doubt, past any warning lights of circumspection_



you appear to be the only person in the history of the interweb to have quoted that.  why am I not surprised


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## Citizen66 (Nov 18, 2011)

It starts out reasonably well. Formal and emotionally removed from the subject.



> *Michael Rafferty our former Commanding Officer was formerly removed as C.O. of Combined Ex-Forces for gross misconduct, the circumstances will be seen below.*
> 
> *This was a unanimous decision by the council after all the facts were brought to there attention.*
> 
> ...



Then shifts rapidly into the first person:



> *I want to say that Michael Rafferty is a man with passion who has worked hard for the CxF, he is the founding force behind it but he has now become out of control.*
> 
> *Michael Rafferty was also one of the founders of the CxF Governing Council, he was in favour of it, he was a member of it and he knew he could be dismissed by it, This can be seen by the fact that just before CxF went to 10 Downing Street Michael Rafferty was dismissed by the council and then re-instated as C.O. by the council in order that he could if asked tell the truth and say he was not self appointed.*
> 
> *The same applies with the council giving the C.O. orders, Michael Rafferty is not above taking orders from the council and indeed he did just that when he was ordered by the council not to break his police bail conditions and go to 10 Downing Street.*



And then personal:



> *On that occasion he was happy to follow the councils orders but it now seems that he believes himself above the council and indeed above every one in the CxF.*
> 
> *The Bottom line is that Michael Rafferty is acting as a Dictator and believes he should be in sole charge of the CxF and he alone should make policy and promote and demote as his whim dictates.*
> 
> *Now we must understand why this unrest within CxF has come about.*



Before slipping rapidly into school yard territory:



> *This came about because Michael Rafferty’s new girl friend chose to be offended and accuse me of racism because of a post I put up in a CxF room.*
> 
> *The offending words were “rag headed Paki Cunts” Now I believe I should quantify the reason for my words and why I believe I cannot be thought of as a resist.*
> 
> *The words Rag Head’s is what we have always called Arabs in the British Army, they call us ? Kuffar’s, now the word Paki is short for Pakistani and they call themselves Paki’s as in the statement that “the Paki Army is going to take over Britain” which I find offensive.*



And then we get to the crux:



> *Why is it politically incorrect to say Paki but it is OK to call someone from Kurdistan a Kurd ? or an Uzbekistani an Uzbek ? an Afghanistani an Afghan And then it is OK to call someone from these Islands a Brit rather than British or an Australian an Auzie then there is the Jock’s and Paddy’s and Taffy’s, I was under the impression that in the CxF there were no holds bard? also I have herd Michael Rafferty refer to our enemies as Rag Heads and Paki’s in the past and so I find him removing my post as hypocritical.*



Is this a Chris Morris project we're falling for here or not?


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## Citizen66 (Nov 18, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> _For thirty pages I am driven on by the steam hammer of polemic. For thirty pages the focus of my own thought dims the images that do not stand in the very forefront of my vision. And yet for thirty pages, now with diffidence, now with a persistence, a doubt nags at my mind. I write swept on by the momentum of political invective till pausing for a moment a nagging doubt seizes and snares my mind. I wonder whether ... I haven't perhaps overplayed my hand ... I wonder if I haven't been unfair ... But I tear myself away. The piston rod of determined argument forces me on ... Unwilling to submit to doubt and unwilling to stop for scrutiny, the momentum of the polemic takes me up again. Its own internal logic driving past any signposts of doubt, past any warning lights of circumspection_



That's probably the nicest thing I've ever read but I know not whom it's directed at or whence it came from.
My usual attempts at deciphering your algorithms are generally way off-beam, so I'll just enjoy the words without troubling my mind as to the meaning.


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## Dishrag (Nov 18, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> That's probably the nicest thing I've ever read but I know not whom it's directed at or whence it came from.
> My usual attempts at deciphering your algorithms are generally way off-beam, so I'll just enjoy the words without troubling my mind as to the meaning.


What fucking mind you thickashit wankshaft?


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## Citizen66 (Nov 18, 2011)

Dishrag said:


> What fucking mind you thickashit wankshaft?



Not tonight darling, I've got a splitting headache.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 18, 2011)

newbie said:


> you appear to be the only person in the history of the interweb to have quoted that. why am I not surprised


The only person apart from Jim Higgins http://www.marxists.org/archive/higgins/1997/locust/chap09.htm#f3


Citizen66 said:


> That's probably the nicest thing I've ever read but I know not whom it's directed at or whence it came from. My usual attempts at deciphering your algorithms are generally way off-beam, so I'll just enjoy the words without troubling my mind as to the meaning.


Those aren't his words. Those are the words of Andrew Trotty Hornung


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> The only person apart from Jim Higgins http://www.marxists.org/archive/higgins/1997/locust/chap09.htm#f3
> 
> Those aren't his words. Those are the words of Andrew Trotty Hornung



Nice one. Thought I'd read that somewhere else. 'It's in italics he'll say'.

On occasions Hornug:



> ...affected a flowing cloak and a silver topped cane, perhaps he thought they made him look Byronic.


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Nice one. Thought I'd read that somewhere else. 'It's in italics he'll say'.
> 
> On occasions Hornug:


Are you trying to suggest I was passing that rubbish of as my own you silly old fool?


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## audiotech (Nov 18, 2011)

So easy and you call me the fool.


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## TruXta (Nov 19, 2011)

That chap's got some Scando blood in him.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

haven't we all?


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## TruXta (Nov 19, 2011)

Nope


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## DotCommunist (Nov 19, 2011)

Then get out of my anglo saxon country etc


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## Red Storm (Nov 19, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> The only person apart from Jim Higgins http://www.marxists.org/archive/higgins/1997/locust/chap09.htm#f3
> 
> Those aren't his words. Those are the words of Andrew Trotty Hornung



I've got some of Workers Fight's literature. My grandad was a docker with Sean and a founding member of Workers Fight.


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## Corax (Nov 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Then get out of my anglo saxon country etc


Go back to where you came from.  The beaker people have had enough of being a free meal ticket for anglo-saxons.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> The UKIP were the best electoral friend mainstream official anti-fascism ever had.



Curiously Butchers you took the piss out of me for making that exact point in early 2009.

In the event UKIP were even closer to getting the seat won by Griffin than The Greens, the latter being about 5 votes per ward behind the BNP, but UKIP were even closer to getting double the BNP vote which would have clinched it under D'Hondt.

As an aside, UAF just launched their "Kick Griffin Out" campaign for 2014 in the NW. Who to vote for to achieve that is a complete bugger to work out under D'Hondt. I am not optimistic that No2EU or TUSC will be much further along the road in terms of traction. LDs only have 1 seat and might well keep it, but would never make a 2nd. Labour and tories would need serious surges under D'H to get the last seat, so Greens and UKIP are probably still the statistically best pitch.


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Nick Griffin's BNP (what's left thereof)
> The Andrew Brons BNP faction (who announced they will not be renewing their BNP memberships)
> English Democrats (Who have taken in a few ex-BNP, notably Eddy Butler, into their ranks)
> UKIP (perhaps not all "far-right" but still wankers)
> ...



the new NPP as announced on Shirtfront, paul golding at the helm,
BPP which is gluebag whatmores moribund outfit and probably useless.
uk resistance
and not forgetting the paramilitary might of the CxF - imploding on a facebook page near you.


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

Demu said:


> are you sure you should be writing a book..........just yet?



care to contribute with the answer then? the IWCA appears to be a viable alternative but has it met with difficulties. i did ask if anyone from IWCA wanted to comment on their progress etc. no sarcasm here, genuinely.


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> What was your strategy when the BNP were an electoral threat?



i never had one. i am not a strategist. i am genuinely interested in what people DO think is an alternative. there is a tendency to negate others ideas without advancing an alternative. can anyone from IWCA comment.


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> the far right do present an electoral threat, as might be recalled from the bnp's election results of a couple of years ago when griffin and brons became euro mps. a better organised and more flexible party without the failings of the bnp could have built on the number of votes they got, increasing them for the general election. frankly, when the far right don't present an electoral threat right now because of their incompetence and infighting, it is no time to be complacent because someone like paul golding or andrew brons could imo present a rather greater electoral threat than nick griffin. and what about ukip and the english democrats? sure, they won't take power tomorrow or in five years time. but when the far right do well electorally, gaining councillors or euro mps, it nudges the other parties towards the right, meaning that they don't have to be elected for portions of their agenda to be adopted.



pickmans, the bnp are knacked - not because of support but because of incompetence and financial mismanagement it would seem. there are nearly a dozen far right grupuscules who will no doubt aim to stand in the same areas as there are only a few places that are supportive, as the nf and bnp did. any far right threatat the moment is on the streets with edl attacking occupy, trade unionists, antifascist meetings. we will see if this tones down now tho cos of the splits - tommy leaving to join the fluffies is not going to help morale, kent have fallen out over hel gower and paul pitts ego competition, CxF are imploding massively, infidels have few leadership skills and no media presence. youre right over the MEP but i do not think that is going to be replicated. there is also a north south divide in the BNP! griffin is from 'that london.' not being dismissive of the far right - i never am - but electorally for the moment they are too diffuse. this brings us back to the earlier question, IWCA alternative etc. is this an effective strategy and if so, can it be replicated in other areas?


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> It's hard to call isn't it, on the one hand they're clearly not fascist in the same way that the BNP could be described as such, but don't let that distract from some of the very nasty stuff they come out with from time to time. Theres' definitely a substatial chunk of their membership which is of that persuasion, which again is probably larger in size than such small groups as British Freedom or Britain First, so you can't ignore them.
> 
> Plus I can see them specifically targeting ex-BNP and ex-EDL members and activists and voters, they may go even further in that direction in the future.



they remind me of the authoriarian right wingers like in 30s austria, hungary and romania, than out and out swastika goosesteppers. they have taken notice of the nazi/holocaust denial baggage of griffin so are all marketing fluffy fascism in the guise of various nationalisms - which all mean 'no forins!'  - tho they will be competing in the same 'political space' geographically and ideologically.


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

right, im off back to bed!


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

anyway, as for the EDL - which is what this thread is actually about! - tommy leaving will no doubt have to do with facing another spell in prison and pressure from his 'long-suffering' wife. there is also the feeling that he has done a griffin and bled the members dry and after tower hamlets bollocks, birmingham fiasco and the mass arrest of a radically diminished EDL he has lost a massive amount of credibility. this leaves kev carroll at the helm. hel gower was the PA but she has had a bust up with her division - and everyone hates her anyway - so that's yet another schism. it will be interesting to see if alan lake  (the EDLs Jim Dowson) can redirect his 'influence' to the fluffies or whoever tommy joins up with. meeting today will no doubt result in even more fallouts and violence. hilariously inept.


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## butchersapron (Nov 19, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Curiously Butchers you took the piss out of me for making that exact point in early 2009.
> 
> In the event UKIP were even closer to getting the seat won by Griffin than The Greens, the latter being about 5 votes per ward behind the BNP, but UKIP were even closer to getting double the BNP vote which would have clinched it under D'Hondt.
> 
> As an aside, UAF just launched their "Kick Griffin Out" campaign for 2014 in the NW. Who to vote for to achieve that is a complete bugger to work out under D'Hondt. I am not optimistic that No2EU or TUSC will be much further along the road in terms of traction. LDs only have 1 seat and might well keep it, but would never make a 2nd. Labour and tories would need serious surges under D'H to get the last seat, so Greens and UKIP are probably still the statistically best pitch.



I bloody well did not. And i wouldn't have as it's a point that i've been making for 5 years plus - that the UKIP offered a far more dangerous immediate threat to the BNPs electoral fortunes than any other right-wing formation, regardless of their bizarreness and amateur politics inbetween large elections. It'ssomething the BNP and UKIP leadership were well aware of as well, hence the sniping and poaching members and activists and so on.

What i _did_ take the piss out of (or more accurately criticise), was the idea that the resurgence of the UKIP vote on the 2009 elections represented a determined anti-BNP vote, an anti-fascist vote - and that the associated _vote anyone but BNP_ logic that leads to the endorsing or election of reactionary-authoritarian anti-working class candidates like UKIP is absolute junk and counter-productive to any medium-long term strategy to deal with the social conditions producing a rise in the BNP vote/far right politics in general.

Have you misread my post as _agreeing_ with the above vote UKIP approach?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 19, 2011)

Well today is the big meeting in Birmingham. 1.30pm.  Members have been warned not to turn up absolutely shit faced but that rarely stops them turning up absolutely shit faced. I predict this is going to turn into a mass brawl.


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## Red Storm (Nov 19, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Well today is the big meeting in Birmingham. 1.30pm. Members have been warned not to turn up absolutely shit faced but that rarely stops them turning up absolutely shit faced.I predict this is going to turn into a mass brawl.



This is my prediction:


----------



## john x (Nov 19, 2011)

I wonder if anyone is going to address the question of the 'missing money' at this meeting?

A lot of people in the EDL worshipped him. Some idiot the other day even tried to start an 'online collection' for Tommy after his last whining diary! With him jumping ship at such a critical time, I wonder whether there will be a backlash. HMRC know he has the money but so far have been unable to find it. A few very betrayed and disgruntled ex-comrades may make their job a whole lot easier.

A conviction for theft and/or money laundering within the next 12 months will definitely see him in jail which will not help, if he intends to stand as a British Freedom candidate.

john x


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Well today is the big meeting in Birmingham. 1.30pm. Members have been warned not to turn up absolutely shit faced but that rarely stops them turning up absolutely shit faced. I predict this is going to turn into a mass brawl.



yeah the odds are on it ending in a brawl with people angered over tommy's complete and utter surrender - saying he is joining the fluffy BF is just a transistional move - and the various inter-division/firm rivalries, the fallouts over gower, moore etc. i am hoping everythingEDL will be keeping us abreast of the arrests and recriminations on twitter!  someone mentioned on facebook that they had booked a church hall to stop them alco-boozing! crivvens!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 19, 2011)

i'm not sure i believe that the meet was swapped to Brum.

aside from that, upping the profile of the fluffies was on the cards, even tho' butchersapron naysayed it


----------



## john x (Nov 19, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> someone mentioned on facebook that they had booked a church hall to stop them alco-boozing! crivvens!



Don't anyone tell them you can buy tins and bottles from the off-license or ASDA!

john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 19, 2011)

...


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## newbie (Nov 19, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> The only person apart from Jim Higgins http://www.marxists.org/archive/higgins/1997/locust/chap09.htm#f3


'twas Higgins he was quoting (unless, of course, the original author used dots to connect various phrases or by some weird coincidence butch used exactly the same dots as Higgins).

anyway, what's slightly odd is that my quote of the post butchers made now tops google.  That's grossly unfair, it's not me that remembers every word of obscure tracts.


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## Fingers (Nov 19, 2011)

One hour until kick off, they will probably have been in the pub for an hour or so by now.


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## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

Fingers said:


> One hour until kick off, they will probably have been in the pub for an hour or so by now.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8onF7DJgy8


----------



## LLETSA (Nov 19, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> right, im off back to bed!


 
That's an alternative of a kind.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2011)

no mate, like tommy, i've surrendered!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 19, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> no mate, like tommy, i've surrendered!



"I'm not leaving the EDL.  I'm not quitting the EDL"


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 19, 2011)




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## Das Uberdog (Nov 19, 2011)

i don't currently have sound on my PC - so what, has he left or is he still in?


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## Fingers (Nov 19, 2011)

Meeting taking place as we speak. Started at 1.30pm. No reports of anything from it yet, I suspect the punch up will begin fairly shortly and then it will be all over Facebook


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## Fingers (Nov 19, 2011)

Well here you go, no fights yet as far as I have seen

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-endorse-british-freedom-party


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 19, 2011)

It looks like one of them cocaine drink logos


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## Red Storm (Nov 19, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> It looks like one of them cocaine drink logos



British Resistance call it the Pepsi Party.


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## Red Storm (Nov 19, 2011)

This has been posted by a reliable source on the Edinburgh Anti-Fascist Alliance fb page:​


> The SDL physically attacked the Palestine stall (GPHRC - Glasgow​Palestine Human Rights Campaign) on Buchanan St today at approx 4:45.​​30 - 40 of them, masked up. They attempted to take apart the gazebo,​​knocked over things and punched and kicked several of the folks on the​​stall. They then went off shouting "whose streets? our streets"​​towards GOMA. The police were called and the police state that they​​picked up several of them. Nobody from GPHRC was seriously injured,​​but then they are very brave individuals many of whom have suffered​​far worse at the hands of the Israeli army so they have a high​​threshold. Those punched include those who are middle aged and older.​​​At 12 noon today SDL held some sort of demo in George Sq. Others will​​have heard more - please can we compile it together? There was a​​rangers home game today but it was just against St Johnstone (Perth) -​​is there some connection?​​​So next week, Sat 26th, lets make sure there's plenty of us around the​​stall. The gphrc stall is from 12 noon to 5pm and its outside where​​borders used to be, where All Saints is now, opposite Lush. We could​​all have our respective stalls and have a bit of a radical fair going​​on as well as standing side by side with the gphrc folks. I don't​​think its likely that the SDL will turn up 2 weeks in a row but its​​important for their confidence and to show solidarity with those who​​were attacked today.​​​We also need to know in future when they are likely to be in town and​​have a good alert mechanism. At the moment too often text messages are​​getting sent around that do not have a date and time on them, so​​people are responding to old/false alerts and get jaded.​​​Together we can stop the SDL claiming the streets for their hate. But​​we need to make sure that they cannot charge around our cities having​​"good days out" that make them want to come back for more.​​


​


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## Citizen66 (Nov 19, 2011)

AFA come back. All is forgiven.


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## john x (Nov 19, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> This has been posted by a reliable source on the Edinburgh Anti-Fascist Alliance fb page:​



The other consideration was that Celtic was playing away at Inverness today, ie. far enough away not to be a threat to these loyalist toe rags.

john x


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 19, 2011)

EverythingEDL's misogyny has been getting on mine and other antirafa activists nerves for some time (he's a bloke, apparently kicked out of exposetweets for mirroring the tactics of EDL/r*dw*tch (ie. posting personal details of rank'n'file rather than going after the heads of the racist-hydra) - the latest is mocking the injured Simon Weston. No more will I be retweeting this cunt.


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## john x (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> EverythingEDL's misogyny has been getting on mine and other antirafa activists nerves for some time (he's a bloke, apparently kicked out of exposetweets for mirroring the tactics of EDL/r*dw*tch (ie. posting personal details of rank'n'file rather than going after the heads of the racist-hydra) - the latest is mocking the injured Simon Weston. No more will I be retweeting this cunt.


Any links for either of those claims?

john x


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## Red Storm (Nov 20, 2011)

http://britishfreedom.org/the-english-defence-league-and-british-freedom/

BFP statement on today's meeting.


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## Red Storm (Nov 20, 2011)

EDL also seemed to attack Occupy Bristol last night. EverythingEDL has a tweetpic of the report


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## malatesta32 (Nov 20, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Its just one dimensional anti fascism Malatesta with no local political alternative for the white working class.



given the attacks on bristol and glasgow occupy, perhaps its time for some 1D antifascism. they are leaving themselves very exposed and it is clear that the infidell-ends and hardcore EDL are going to keep this up! grim.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> EDL also seemed to attack Occupy Bristol last night. EverythingEDL has a tweetpic of the report


Grim isn't the word for it. Saw this on twitter re. @Occupy_Leeds: https://twitter.com/#!/Scargill01/status/138017635546841088 - 60 EDL on Boar Lane - no idea how true that was, but WTF?
Red Storm, can you remove your link to the BFP page and give this link instead - I've uploaded the image of the page here: http://twitpic.com/7gs683


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## malatesta32 (Nov 20, 2011)

edl/british fluffies claim on facebook 'They have removed any members with past involvement in discredited groups' -- so what about this football hooligan, wifebeating, violent career criminal little tommy robisnson then? they talk about griffins baggage in the bnp. tommys past will be constantly brought up.


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## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

Bristol: doesn't look like anyone kicking tents over (and there was no violence going by the report) claimed they were edl - one 'presumed' is all. Given there's been plenty of vocal local non-edl opposition it's probably best not to jump to conclusions - about either what happened or who did what. The NF used to gain great deal of street-respect and publicity by people linking every single thing that happened to the famous NF and building up their image, lets not do the same.


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## Blagsta (Nov 20, 2011)

Guardian is carrying a story today about the edl potentially attacking public sector strikers.
http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op...-splinter-group-target-unions&cat=top-stories


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## malatesta32 (Nov 20, 2011)

british fluffies say
'Ensure that a no class-A drugs policy is enforced'
dunno how the edl royal couple, stella and charlie, are going to react to that!


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

P'raps it's a typo and they meant to say 'Ensure that no class-A drugs policy is enforced'


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Guardian is carrying a story today about the edl potentially attacking public sector strikers.
> http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op...-splinter-group-target-unions&cat=top-stories


Better late than never, I s'pose. Got screengrabs from at least Jun/July of 2010 with anti-union threats. Just a continuation of the BNP's anti-marxist line, WHICH IS A LOAD OF BOLLOX AS UNIONS BEGAN BEFORE MARX'S THESIS PUBLISHED.


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## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

As is your point because unions aren't 'marxist'. Stop being weird.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> As is your point because unions aren't 'marxist'. Stop being weird.


Points being that 1) historical fact - unions began decades before marxist 'ideology' arose and 2) people join unions for representative strength in numbers against exploitation by bosses, not necessarily because they themselves have marxist-leanings.

I didn't make a point that stated 'because unions aren't marxist' - you wrote that, not me. telling me what i should and shouldn't write ya fuckin' authoritarian weirdo. you want something written a certain way, then write it yafuckin'sel


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## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> No. Point being people join unions for representative strength in numbers against exploitation by bosses, not because of marxism or marxist-leanings.


I know. Which is why your waffle about the BNP and about unions being marxist is pointless weirdness. (aside from missing and totally getting wrong the pro-unions aspect of the BNPs formal politics). And where exactly did you make the point that people join unions for protection? You didn't.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

butchersapron = weirdo who makes up what people didn't write and then rails against it. weirdy weirdy weirdo


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## Fedayn (Nov 20, 2011)

Masked up SDL supporters attacked the GPHRC, a Palestinian Human Rights group, stall in Glasgow city centre yesterday.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Masked up SDL supporters attacked the GPHRC, a Palestinian Human Rights group, stall in Glasgow city centre yesterday.


Yes, that's been verified. Similar in Brum last year from Mrs.EDL-buggy and her radicalised kiddies


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## George T (Nov 20, 2011)

> There was a rangers home game today but it was just against St Johnstone (Perth) -​is there some connection?​



Highly unlikely since the game was still going on when the stall was attacked. Let's not use a serious subject to make what are (at best) petty football jibes.


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## Fedayn (Nov 20, 2011)

George T said:


> Highly unlikely since the game was still going on when the stall was attacked. Let's not use a serious subject to make what are (at best) petty football jibes.



Interesting first post.


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## George T (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheers.


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## john x (Nov 20, 2011)

George T said:


> Highly unlikely since the game was still going on when the stall was attacked.


How do you work that out?

Most of the hardcore loyalist membership of the SDL are banned from Ibrox anyway for repeated hooliganism.

john x


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## Fedayn (Nov 20, 2011)

George T said:


> Cheers.



Makes me think you might have known this issue would be mentioned here....


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## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

Griffin has been pushing a very aggressive anti-muslim line last few days - trying to scoop up disaffected edl. Possible way out of current troubles for him, influx of active energetic people changing focus...


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## john x (Nov 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> influx of *active* energetic people changing focus...



active?

john x


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## kenny g (Nov 20, 2011)

Yeh- EDL are the real quality recruits for any political movement. FFFS! I saw some of the Angel's with chaperones trying to navigate themselves to barking station a few weeks ago after leaving their cars. Pissed up and wobbling by 9 in the morning they were.


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## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

john x said:


> active?
> 
> john x


6000 posts about their non-activty is it?


kenny g said:


> Yeh- EDL are the real quality recruits for any political movement. FFFS! I saw some of the Angel's with chaperones trying to navigate themselves to barking station a few weeks ago after leaving their cars. Pissed up and wobbling by 9 in the morning they were.



I'm not on about the hanger on goons, i'm on about the people who've manged to get something going -people with the energy and desire to involved themselves in some way in 'politics'.

Weird contradictory thread running through these 6000 posts - the edl appear to many as simultaneously a real serious threat to the left, muslims and wider communities so must be aggressively opposed and challenged right now before they do any more damage whilst also being incapable of doing anything whatsoever at all.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> EverythingEDL's misogyny has been getting on mine and other antirafa activists nerves for some time (he's a bloke, apparently kicked out of exposetweets for mirroring the tactics of EDL/r*dw*tch (ie. posting personal details of rank'n'file rather than going after the heads of the racist-hydra) - the latest is mocking the injured Simon Weston. No more will I be retweeting this cunt.



is there anything in particular that they've tweeted of that nature you could link me to? Just I haven't seen anything personally, and butchersapron feel free to take the piss all you want but EverythingEDL's done a lot of good work, it really pisses 'em off when they have their racist and neo-nazi opinions documented and catalogued like that.


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## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

I haven't mentioned them.


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## john x (Nov 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I'm not on about the hanger on goons, i'm on about the people who've manged to get something going -people with the energy and desire to involved themselves in some way in 'politics'.



You mean the leadership?

john x


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## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

john x said:


> You mean the leadership?
> 
> john x


People just 'below them', fed up with being kept away from decision making after building up their own little local power bases, people fed up at being led up the hill one too many times...whenever far-right groups collapse disintegrate or whatever there's always a cross over of the more serious minded to the largest, most serious looking competitor party. Griffin knows that (and he should given his history) hence the stepped up anti-muslin stuff of the last few days


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## TruXta (Nov 20, 2011)

Let's hear it for the anti-muslin party!


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## Corax (Nov 20, 2011)

EDLNews is better anyway.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> is there anything in particular that they've tweeted of that nature you could link me to? Just I haven't seen anything personally, and butchersapron feel free to take the piss all you want but EverythingEDL's done a lot of good work, it really pisses 'em off when they have their racist and neo-nazi opinions documented and catalogued like that.


Making crude joke about Simon Weston; the sexist-insults are just something my better half commented on a while ago.
I know Simon Weston has had an article in the Telegraph but if they disagreed, they should attack the man's arguments, not the man's disability.
https://twitter.com/#!/everythingedl/status/137957543132659712

However, monitoring EDL's shite does make people v. angry - they just need to step back from expressing it in a way that EDL/BNP etc can use to smear back.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 20, 2011)

Corax said:


> EDLNews is better anyway.



Isn't EverythingEDL involved in running that website?


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Making crude joke about Simon Weston; the sexist-insults are just something my better half commented on a while ago.
> I know Simon Weston has had an article in the Telegraph but if they disagreed, they should attack the man's arguments, not the man's disability.
> https://twitter.com/#!/everythingedl/status/137957543132659712



No that's not nice at all is it, I mean I know its easy to get carried away with insulting fascists on twitter, and I'm generally not arsed about using petty personal insults and so on when it comes to dealing with people who'd gladly see me (and you) in the gas ovens, but at the same time there's no excuse for Simon Weston thing, and likewise with sexist insults.

That doesn't mean I'm against insulting them in principle, the more the upset they get the better IMHO, but it needs to be done right.


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## Red Storm (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm not against using Redwatch tactics on fascists and organised racists either. I'd probably be more selective with my information however.


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## Citizen66 (Nov 20, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I'm not against using Redwatch tactics on fascists and organised racists either. I'd probably be more selective with my information however.



Well www.fashwatch.org appeared, but seems to have vanished again. Anyone know why?

Original thread HERE


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> I'm not against using Redwatch tactics on fascists and organised racists either. I'd probably be more selective with my information however.


Tweeting personal info so any loon can use it isn't something I condone.


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## Red Storm (Nov 20, 2011)

I did say I'd be more selective with my information.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Isn't EverythingEDL involved in running that website?


 AFAIK, it's written by Fingerz.


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## Deareg (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Tweeting personal info so any loon can use it isn't something I condone.


As long as the info is from a trusted source and known to be correct, then the more loons that use it the better.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 20, 2011)

Deareg said:


> As long as the info is from a trusted source and known to be correct, then the more loons that use it the better.



That's a lot easier said than done, and besides, you can't predict what some lunatic might do once they get hold of that information.

In principle I don't object to putting up fascists details on the internet, its just the practicalities of it and the potential ramifications that need to be thought through. This is something that Redwatch incidentally doesn't give a fuck a about, so be careful not to end up in the position where our morals are an impediment to effective action that fascists can use against us.


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## Deareg (Nov 20, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> That's a lot easier said than done, and besides, you can't predict what some lunatic might do once they get hold of that information.
> 
> In principle I don't object to putting up fascists details on the internet, its just the practicalities of it and the potential ramifications that need to be thought through. This is something that Redwatch incidentally doesn't give a fuck a about, so be careful not to end up in the position where our morals are an impediment to effective action that fascists can use against us.


Who are these loons that you and him are so worries about?  in my time I never met any loons, and I find it fucking offensive for you to be comparing anti fascists with fascists.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 20, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Who are these loons that you and him are so worries about? in my time I never met any loons, and I find it fucking offensive for you to be comparing anti fascists with fascists.



Chill out, ok? That's not what I'm saying.

I'm not comparing anti-fascists with fascists I'm just saying once something's out there on the internet you can't be sure who the fuck is going to end up seeing it and/or acting upon it.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 20, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Who are these loons that you and him are so worries about? in my time I never met any loons, and I find it fucking offensive for you to be comparing anti fascists with fascists.



I mean, just as a hypothetical example, what if information you put on the internet regarding fascist activity ended up being used by some lunatic Islam4UK or Al Queada supporting individual, NOT AN ANTI-FASCIST, to go and kill a load of people? Would you sleep easily at night if that happened?

It's not like this stuff would only be read by politically sound, mentally stable, individuals, there's a whole wide world out there crawling with nutters and you've got to take that into account if you're ever going to do anything like that.


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## Deareg (Nov 20, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Chill out, ok? That's not what I'm saying.
> 
> I'm not comparing anti-fascists with fascists I'm just saying once something's out there on the internet you can't be sure who the fuck is going to end up seeing it and/or acting upon it.


Ok then I will take your word for it, but that was how it sounded to me.


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## Deareg (Nov 20, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> I mean, just as a hypothetical example, what if information you put on the internet regarding fascist activity ended up being used by some lunatic Islam4UK or Al Queada supporting individual, NOT AN ANTI-FASCIST, to go and kill a load of people? Would you sleep easily at night if that happened?
> 
> It's not like this stuff would only be read by politically sound, mentally stable, individuals, there's a whole wide world out there crawling with nutters and you've got to take that into account if you're ever going to do anything like that.


If we are going to let hypothetical situations rule our lives we might as well give up right now, it looks to me like there is a growing violent right wing building and if we don't organise ourselves and pool information then many people are going to be in for a very rough time.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 20, 2011)

Deareg said:


> If we are going to let hypothetical situations rule our lives we might as well give up right now, it looks to me like there is a growing violent right wing building and if we don't organise ourselves and pool information then many people are going to be in for a very rough time.



I agree entirely with that, I don't suggest letting hypothetical situations, especially one's as unlikely as the ones I mentioned, dominate our thinking, but on the other hand we can't just ignore these things, that would be acting irresponsibly.


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## Corax (Nov 20, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Isn't EverythingEDL involved in running that website?


No idea tbh, I'm not involved - just staggered at the amount of content they produce and bigging la fingerz up.


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## john x (Nov 20, 2011)

Interesting debate on the EDL main facebook page now, about the merger.

Plenty of very pissed off BNP voters who are now being asked to vote for the BNP's rivals.

No good will come of this, I tell you!

john x


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## Red Storm (Nov 20, 2011)

Has there been any good analysis on the BFP/EDL merger? 

Anyone have thoughts on why they didn't court the BNP? I have a few:


Tommy's ego too big for the BNP and the egos Griffin and others to fit together. Tommy wants to be a leader or at least on equal footing and that wouldn't happen in the BNP.
Tommy thinks that the BFP will take over the BNP because he thinks the BNP is going to fold.
Tommy doesn't want to be a hypocrite after slagging of the BNP all the time.
Genuine political differences between BNP and EDL


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## john x (Nov 20, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Anyone have thoughts on why they didn't court the BNP?



I suspect they believed many of the pro-BNP among their ranks had either left to join the Infidels or had just got fed up of being told that they mustn't give nazi salutes and learn to love the Jews and the Irish.

Wrongly as it turns out, if the number of disgruntled BNP supporters on the main EDL facebook page are to be believed.

What do you do? Go with an idealogically and financially bankrupt established party, like the BNP that is on its arse and is effectively two parties (or rather factions) or a newly-formed party that has only 62 members but is full of enthusiasm?

And we don't know that Robinson didn't court the BNP and was told to get fucked. Griffin now needs to court disaffected EDL supporters who don't like being told who to vote for.

I'd also like to know how much of an electoral liability the BFP really think Tommy Robinson is. HMRC won't go away and if he is done for tax evasion or money laundering within the next 12 months, his suspended sentence will kick in making him ineligible to stand for election. I guess they are just after the EDL support and will dump Tommy if he doesn't walk away from politics altogether in the next year or so.

john x


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## Corax (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm interested to learn how a group that has no formal membership merges with one that does.


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## Ranbay (Nov 20, 2011)

facebook


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

0. EDL have not merged with BFP - it's the EDL party of choice. EDL ideology and BFP ideology are the same where Islamification of Britain is concerned. It would be difficult at this point for EDL to continue to claim that they're only against Islamist extremism - it's clear for them there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim, or a moderate Islam, and this is the core of the Counterjihad Europa ideology (see Frank Gaffney and Robert Spencer for examples)

1. BNP's history of holocaust denial and antisemitism went against them - thus, only UKIP were invited to the first Counterjihad Conference in Copenhagen 2007 and BFP didn't exist back then. BNP's history didn't stop Brim (2007) revealing publicly that if Front Nationale (France) and BNP (UK) rejected their historical opposition to Jews, she wouldn't mind openly associating CVF with BNP. However, internally BNP were a mess. Although BNP were beset with internecine rivalry, dogged by criminal candidates, lazy councillors and financial irregularities, CVF policy was to work with far-right nationalist groups in Europe. It appears as though CVF were already working with the higher and lower eschelons of the BNP, as evidenced by: their work with Paul Ray (from 2006 onwards) which led to his formation of the EDL in 2009, and; Alan Goodacre's unconvincing 2006 letter to the Jewish Chronicle, proclaiming BNPs more Zionist-than-thou turnaround and swopping of antisemitism for Islamophobia. BNPReform were set up following internal coups and disputes (Graham, Gatward, etc), in an attempt to remake the party. CVF set up a website called Freedom News Network, which shows the network of far-right groups it was linking with in UK.

2. And so it was, that in late Autumn of 2010 the fluffies* were born from the BNPReform 'working group', w/o Butler on board, fully supported by the shadowy hand of the Center for Security Policy's Christine Brim, through their project CVF's subproject - the Counterjihad Europa Project (headed by UK-based Chris 'Aeneas' Knowles'). They (CVF & associates) are now positioned to support in a way that they couldn't support before. Griffin runs BNP like a personal fiefdom and was never going to change his views or party policy. BFP chose 'Freedom' cos they modelled themselves on PVV (the name of Hurt Wilderbeast's Dutch party), and they're going after the prize and they mean business.
*Malatesta is writing about the BFP - he nicknames them 'fluffy fascists' or 'fluffies' for short, so watch this space - there'll be more info coming soon.

3. CVF's Counterjihad Europa Project then included BFP in it's September 2011 conference held in London.
CVFs astroturfed EDL leaders were also present for the first time, where previously they were represented 'in spirit' by CVF's European outreach director Chris Knowles (EDL's Aeneas). CVF are the behind-the-scenes people whom Tommy Robinson cryptically refers to in his last speech, and who were present at the 19th Nov EDL 'change of direction' members' meeting. EDL need financial backing (from CVF and counterjihad donors elsewhere) and they need a suitable political outlet (BFP) that compliments their ideology. The history of the BNP meant it was irredeemable. Even the beginnings of the BFP are slightly controversial, given it was formed by ex-BNP activists. As I said before in the current BNP thread, the counterjihad were most interested in BFP - BFP are a direct result of Counterjihad Europa Project's outreach. UKIP are not working class enough for the voter-base. BFP is essentially the only political party to emerge from the post-CVF involvement in UK and has fully adopted Counterjihad Europa 'values' - free of the antisemitic/holocaust denial baggage that has prevented the BNP from rising any further and riding the Islamphobic doctrine provided by the US-counterhjihad network. It has the full backing of some big players in the US - e.g. Frank Gaffney/Christine Brim's CSP Counterjihad Europa Project, which oversaw the Vlaams Bloc reformed into Vlaams Belang, and has now achieved the same in Britain with the creation of a new political party - BFP.

PM me for supporting documentation.


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## john x (Nov 20, 2011)

Corax said:


> I'm interested to learn how a group that has no formal membership merges with one that does.


The EDL supporters all pay £30 to the BFP (£55 if you're a foreigner!) and become fully paid up members.

(except of course those who are already members of the BNP, UKIP or the English Democrats!)

john x


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## Ranbay (Nov 20, 2011)




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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

Corax said:


> I'm interested to learn how a group that has no formal membership merges with one that does.


It's not a merger. See 0. in my post above.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 20, 2011)

BFP first principle is to bring is a US style commitment to freedom of speech. I was banned from their FB page after 2 posts For the record, I had asked about the internal EDL constitutional process by which the EDL endorsement had been made (no one on an EDL page has answered me at all). When it transpired that this was non democratic I asked how this sat with the BFP denouncement of the EU as anti democratic.

BFP calls for "a bailout for britain, not for banks". EDL thugs physically attack occupations which, if anything, are anti bank.

This may look like a good idea short term for the BFP to boost profile and numbers, in the long run it looks as if there is big potential to get messy.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

Taffboy banned after 2 posts? LOL. Sounds about right. I was also banned for speaking freely on the reformed JDiv facebook page by Gaffney's 'Free Press Society' henchman, James Cohen. They're not pro-free speech at all.

Constitutional process? The way forwards was decided at the Sep 2011 Counterjihad Europa Project's annual conference - present were all CVF directors (Gates of vienna's Edward May aka Baron Bodissey; CVF European director and EDL-overseas arranger, Chris Knowles aka Aeneas Lavinium; also ICLA member Gaia, and Lake's sidekick Kinana who's written many of Tommy's speeches (incl. his first speech). EDL's leaders were present for the first time - Weston (ex-UKIP, EDL supporter and now BFP chairman) joined, as did a few other 'leading far-right lites' from the CVF's frontgroup 'Freedom News Network' website. There were probably others from Europe, but this conference had a decidedly British flavour.


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## Red Storm (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> It's not a merger. See 0. in my post above.



You're right it's not a merger. How far the "association" between the EDL and the BFP will be a _de facto_ merger will be interesting in the times to come, particularly if Tommy decides to join the BFP in post March 2012.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

He will join BFP - once his suspenders are over-and-done with, and with a big cocaine-renouncing flourish, (although what Cousin Kev will do without Tommy's nose has yet to be revealed). Dunno if Tommy can stand for parliament though.


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## claphamboy (Nov 20, 2011)

It's all a right bloody mess, which can only be a good thing.


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## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

So ... the big question on everyone's lips is ...

"Is it complacent to think it's okay to leave BFP to rip themselves to bits (in line with traditional history of UK far right)?"


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## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> He will join BFP - once his suspenders are over-and-done with, and with a big cocaine-renouncing flourish, (although what Cousin Kev will do without Tommy's nose has yet to be revealed). Dunno if Tommy can stand for parliament though.


Yes he can stand for Parliament, but not for locals. But they're at the mercy of deaths and resignations as to where.

What happened to your huff-post about no one liking your 'big' post above btw? Where's it gone?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> It's all a right bloody mess, which can only be a good thing.


BFP chairman thinks we're heading towards a "religious civil war": http://twitpic.com/7h1trs/full


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes he can stand for Parliament, but not for locals. But they're at the mercy of deaths and resignations as to where.


"At the mercy of deaths and resignations" until the General Election, when anyone can stand?


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> BFP chairman thinks we're heading towards a "religious civil war": http://twitpic.com/7h1trs/full



OMG, Weston is actually in love with Robinson, isn't he?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> "At the mercy of deaths and resignations" until the General Election, when anyone can stand?


He can stand for parliament in a by-election now or general election in the future provided he's not serving sentence over a year. He doesn't get to choose where the by-elections are.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> OMG, Weston is actually in love with Robinson, isn't he?


Robinson's comes across as a pied-piper, tbh


----------



## john x (Nov 20, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> BFP chairman thinks we're heading towards a "religious civil war": http://twitpic.com/7h1trs/full





> The BBC regards itself as a politically impartial organisation, but their behaviour in the fallout of the Breivik atrocity shows them to be nothing other than the unapologetic propaganda arm of the hard left and Islam.



I'm sorry, it probably makes me a bad person but when an article starts with something like that I just shit it off, and don't bother reading any further! :-(

john x


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 20, 2011)




----------



## audiotech (Nov 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes he can stand for Parliament,...



A big if I know, but if he ends up in court and is convicted for fraud that might change?

http://www.electoralcommission.org....7/79540/UKPGE-nominations-factsheet-FINAL.pdf


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 21, 2011)

http://uaf.org.uk/2011/11/2589/

UAF's fairly predictable analysis


----------



## audiotech (Nov 21, 2011)

Eddy Butler? I thought he'd joined the English Democrats?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Nov 21, 2011)

audiotech said:


> Eddy Butler? I thought he'd joined the English Democrats?



Indeed he did.  I've never seen him mention the British Freedom Party either, come to think of it.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 21, 2011)

Did he start the BNPreform thing that became the BFP


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 21, 2011)

good article!
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/i...ue-forms-alliance-with-far-right-british.html
the british fluffies are elbowing the nutters with bnp pasts aside, the EDL's past however will be difficult to explain: robinson's long list of convictions etc, just show him as a violent thug. mind you, hasnt stopped the bnp has it?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 21, 2011)

Demu said:


> are you sure you should be writing a book..........just yet?


just to reiterate:
'care to contribute with the answer then? the IWCA appears to be a viable alternative but has it met with difficulties. i did ask if anyone from IWCA wanted to comment on their progress etc. no sarcasm here, genuinely.' is anyone from iwca on here?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 21, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> good article!
> http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/i...ue-forms-alliance-with-far-right-british.html
> the british fluffies are elbowing the nutters with bnp pasts aside, the EDL's past however will be difficult to explain: robinson's long list of convictions etc, just show him as a violent thug. mind you, hasnt stopped the bnp has it?


They missed one ... still listed on the website as being on the executive council as of NOW


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 21, 2011)

we need to start compiling the names and previous acitivities of the naughtier fluffies. the EDL 'leaders' and prominent members are already discredited. facebook is mainly supportive so far but thats cos the EDL are so fed up with their pointless demos and are desperate for a new direction. however, the EDL will have to behave themselves in any public situation as the links with the fluffies will be constantly stressed and it may turn out that the fluffies, altho needy of votes/members/cash have joined up with people who are even worse than BNP!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 21, 2011)

peter stafford is fronting for the fluffies on facebook. he is ex liverpool bnp who was purged for allegedly being gay along with the usual accusation of being uaf-searchlight-red-nonce-grass-jew etc. i am sure liverpool edl - who seem to be Lbnp mainly- are not going to go mad over voting for the fluffies.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 21, 2011)

Sure. Note however - EDL facebook 'note' to OccupyLSX to "disperse by 12am Friday morning" (i.e midnight Thursday 10th November) received over 400 likes, whilst the note about British Freedom - wait for it, wait for it - received only 25


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 21, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> peter stafford is fronting for the fluffies on facebook. he is ex liverpool bnp who was purged for allegedly being gay along with the usual accusation of being uaf-searchlight-red-nonce-grass-jew etc. i am sure liverpool edl - who seem to be Lbnp mainly- are not going to go mad over voting for the fluffies.


I thought LiverpoolEDL had split from EDL recently?
Back to Stafford - smears appear to originate from Griffinite loyalists for his support of Butler for BNP leader, nothing more complicated than that.

Source: http://liveraf.wordpress.com/the-enemy/the-faces-of-merseyside-bnp/



Source: EDL facebook


----------



## john x (Nov 21, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> i am sure liverpool edl - who seem to be Lbnp mainly- are not going to go mad over voting for the fluffies.


Especially as they were excluded from the 'Way Forward' meeting on Saturday! ;-)

john x


----------



## treelover (Nov 21, 2011)

I often wonder if say the SWP were under the same intense scrutiny as the BNP and EDL are from activists, I'm sure they would find cases of criminal activity, etc, and no i'm not saying they are the same..

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 21, 2011)

I downloaded harry potter not but last week.


----------



## treelover (Nov 21, 2011)

ha ha ha....


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2011)

british freedom getting Tommy Robinson elected to parliament is as likely as me shitting a turd made of solid gold.


----------



## treelover (Nov 21, 2011)

you have a real way with words DC...


----------



## john x (Nov 21, 2011)

treelover said:


> I often wonder if say the SWP were under the same intense scrutiny as the BNP and EDL are from activists, I'm sure they would find cases of criminal activity, etc, and no i'm not saying they are the same..



I'm sure they would.

By the way, an EDL supporter from Wigan is up in court this afternoon for malicious wounding with a knife of an Asian guy. What do you think the chances of an SWP supporter being done for that are? And given that most SWP members are middle-class students, they are more likely to be up for a bit of pot.

In fact I take that back. Most SWPers are pretty humorless and probably wouldn't even have a smoke! 

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 21, 2011)

i took ecstacy once but i didnt swallow.


----------



## Corax (Nov 21, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> They missed one ... still listed on the website as being on the executive council as of NOW
> 
> View attachment 14850


"I have been engaged for thirteen years and..."

WTF?  Engaged to be what, a pensioner?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 21, 2011)

latest piece on EDL/British Freedom! Read all abaht it!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 21, 2011)

LB, yes i think yr right. Liverpool EDL are not tommy fans, and are infidell-ends in all but name. anyone from LiverAF here?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 21, 2011)

treelover said:


> I often wonder if say the SWP ...


Eee, an'tha'was doin' sowell an'all 
(meaning you haven't mentioned the swappies for such a long time)


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 21, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> LB, yes i think yr right. Liverpool EDL are not tommy fans, and are infidell-ends in all but name. anyone from LiverAF here?


No idea, sorry


----------



## audiotech (Nov 21, 2011)

john x said:


> I'm sure they would.
> 
> By the way, an EDL supporter from Wigan is up in court this afternoon for malicious wounding with a knife of an Asian guy. What do you think the chances of an SWP supporter being done for that are? And given that most SWP members are middle-class students, they are more likely to be up for a bit of pot.
> 
> ...



I know two present members of the SWP, both women, who would have you dribbling from every orifice and laugh whilst doing it, both non-smokers. Very smart.


----------



## Corax (Nov 21, 2011)

Pics or GTFO.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 21, 2011)

Terrible disease.


----------



## audiotech (Nov 21, 2011)

I'd be the one dribbling if I did that.


----------



## Corax (Nov 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Terrible disease.


Well done.


----------



## john x (Nov 21, 2011)

audiotech said:


> both non-smokers. Very smart.



Cookies?

john x


----------



## treelover (Nov 21, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Eee, an'tha'was doin' sowell an'all
> (meaning you haven't mentioned the swappies for such a long time)



tbh, they are all becoming inconsequential, looking at the new movements, the strikes, etc people are on the move without the vanguard...


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 21, 2011)

Just seen this pic on the MDL - United We Stand, Divided We Fall fb.

Not too sure what to make of it or it's authenticity. He's asking for cocaine not crack too.


----------



## veltins (Nov 21, 2011)

the last thing this country needs is more politicians!


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 21, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/7hjddq/full

lol


----------



## juice_terry (Nov 21, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/7hjddq/full
> 
> lol


The EDL just don't do irony


----------



## Corax (Nov 21, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/7hjddq/full
> 
> lol


That can't be real. Surely.

Tell me it's real.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 21, 2011)

oh nose, they have upset Andy bat shit mental video guy...


----------



## juice_terry (Nov 21, 2011)

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...048429_100001123243375_689865_465746193_n.jpg

oh they are real ... pricks !!!


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 21, 2011)

juice_terry said:


> The EDL just don't do irony


it means "a bit like iron"


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Nov 22, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Did he start the BNPreform thing that became the BFP



From what I can recall, BNPReform was the Butler-helmed enterprise that wanted a more "reasonable" "nationalism" within the BNP. British Freedom weren't connected with Butler at all - they were more like BNP flouncers wanting to start their own "progressive nationalist" tea party, which lasted for all of 5 seconds, as factionalism immediately set in, as epitomised by Lee Barnes shouting his head off on his blog and insulting all and sundry on the British "Democracy" Forum....


----------



## thriller (Nov 22, 2011)

juice_terry said:


> http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...048429_100001123243375_689865_465746193_n.jpg
> 
> oh they are real ... pricks !!!



he is wearing a poppy and giving the nazi salute


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 22, 2011)

thriller said:


> he is wearing a poppy and giving the nazi salute


i don't see why this surprises you so greatly.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 22, 2011)

its tiny tommy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB53DS3k1yI


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 22, 2011)

EDL have changed their logo on their FB to include the BFP logo.


----------



## thriller (Nov 22, 2011)

it's got a very seal of the president of the united states look about it.


----------



## john x (Nov 22, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> EDL have changed their logo on their FB to include the BFP logo.


I bet it looks shit!

There just not very good at ....well anything really! 

john x


----------



## audiotech (Nov 23, 2011)




----------



## Fingers (Nov 23, 2011)




----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 23, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> EDL have changed their logo on their FB to include the BFP logo.


I thought it looked like one of those naff commemoration plates


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 23, 2011)

[quote="Fingers, post: 10666906" -- snip img of tommy and cousin kev --[/quote]
Is it just me, or has the EDL always had this 'local drug baron war' air to the leadership?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 23, 2011)

EDL's main Facebook wall has been taken again


----------



## john x (Nov 23, 2011)

ZHC strike again! 

john x


----------



## thriller (Nov 23, 2011)

what will they do now that they ave "taken" the page? Why dont they delete all the pics and comments so the EDL has to start all over again.


----------



## john x (Nov 23, 2011)

thriller said:


> what will they do now that they ave "taken" the page? Why dont they delete all the pics and comments so the EDL has to start all over again.


They have to start all over again now anyway, as that page has been compromised.

Unfortunately for them they won't even get 10,000 likes this time! 

john x


----------



## krink (Nov 23, 2011)

juice_terry said:


> http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...048429_100001123243375_689865_465746193_n.jpg
> 
> oh they are real ... pricks !!!



where's that picture taken from mate? looks like that's a newcastle scarf one of them is wearing.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 23, 2011)

Snigger


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 23, 2011)

The page is down now.


----------



## sunny jim (Nov 24, 2011)

I reckon they should have killed the page 10 mins after they took it, so as not to let the EDL have any time to advertise any new page they start. Still wicked though that the page has gone - the EDL are going to be demoralised after all thats happened recently!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 24, 2011)

IIRC, Z Company warned this would happen after the threats to Occupy London.


----------



## john x (Nov 24, 2011)

sunny jim said:


> I reckon they should have killed the page 10 mins after they took it, so as not to let the EDL have any time to advertise any new page they start. Still wicked though that the page has gone - the EDL are going to be demoralised after all thats happened recently!



I think the idea was to provoke a racist, foamfest which certainly happened. When the page supporters had run out of swear words and racist taunts and had realised that shouting 'bacon sarnies' and 'pork' at their computers wasn't going to frighten the ZHC the page was killed after about two hours.

Oh and taff, it was anonymous which had made the threat. ;-)

john x


----------



## sunny jim (Nov 24, 2011)

The foamfest, while totally hilarious, was just gloating really. Cutting off their main central communication and not giving them time to sort out a new page would be much, much funnier imo


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 24, 2011)

FFS i missed it all, was playing Call of Duty eating Pizza and drinking beer round a mates.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> FFS i missed it all, was playing Call of Duty eating Pizza and drinking beer round a mates.


haha


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 24, 2011)

Banned from the new page already for using FACTS.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2011)

This is an outrage


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 24, 2011)

I know, what now? how will they ever know that Winterville is a made up story by the press?

bless em,


----------



## Fingers (Nov 24, 2011)

there is a fake Facebook page set up by ZHC floating around, 2,500 members have joined it and they have less than 1,000 on their real one lol.  The NEED Facebook for recruiting, they are fucked without it and are too stupid to keep it secure.

Does anyone know this pub?

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edls-racist-pub-landlord

They are getting some shit on their facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Salisbury-Arms-Cambridge/170756822985092


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2011)

Fucking hell - SI in 2011?


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 24, 2011)

Fingers said:


> there is a fake Facebook page set up by ZHC floating around, 2,500 members have joined it and they have less than 1,000 on their real one lol. The NEED Facebook for recruiting, they are fucked without it and are too stupid to keep it secure.
> 
> Does anyone know this pub?
> 
> ...



Went in there ten years ago


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 24, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Snigger



Its like Cable Street in cyber world


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 24, 2011)

> Ben has been sacked with immediate effect as this sort of behaviour can not & will not be tolerated.The management of The Salisbury Arms would like to apologise unreservedly to anyone who was offended & upset by the stupid actions of this young person. He has let us down as employers & parents & he has put our business & reputation under threat. Once again we are so very sorry about this, he has already been moved out of The Salisbury Arms & is no longer welcome in the pub.



From Still Laughing at the EDL fb


----------



## Deareg (Nov 24, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> From Still Laughing at the EDL fb


Hope the bastard gets suspended from signing on the dole.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 24, 2011)

Just spotted Kevin Watmough on facebook : www.facebook.com/redwatch88


----------



## john x (Nov 24, 2011)

sunny jim said:


> The foamfest, while totally hilarious, was just gloating really.


Not entirely.

The EDL have been reasonably tidy with the racism recently but last night their supporters were all over the shop with "Coons this," "Niggers that", "Fuck all the Pakis", "Burn all their fucking Mosques down for doing this", "Rape the goat-fucking Pakis women", "Let's abuse their fucking kids, see how they like it!"

Not very pleasant and not one of theirs on there telling them to pack in all the racist shit. In fact a couple of their regional organisers were at it too. And all screenshotted to give the lie to the shite that "we are all fluffy bunnies in the British Freedom Party now."

And besides, they already had a new page waiting which possibly may have been already hacked as it was declared as fake after two hours and a couple of thousand likes.

24 hours later and they only have 1400 'likes'. Facebook is all they have left. If they lose that, they will have nothing.

john x


----------



## Fingers (Nov 24, 2011)

The old page is open again and they are dropping like flies, they are rally disorganised and don't who which is real and which is fake


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 24, 2011)

Fingers said:


> there is a fake Facebook page set up by ZHC floating around, 2,500 members have joined it and they have less than 1,000 on their real one lol. The NEED Facebook for recruiting, they are fucked without it and are too stupid to keep it secure.
> 
> Does anyone know this pub?
> 
> ...



http://cambridgeanarchists.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/fridays-fuckwit-fascist-farrago/


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 24, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Just spotted Kevin Watmough on facebook : www.facebook.com/redwatch88



He likes Press TV?  

Oh, because the Iranians don't like the Jews?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 24, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> http://cambridgeanarchists.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/fridays-fuckwit-fascist-farrago/



Christ, he really does not want to be going down that road! The article on EDL News now has nearly 11,000 hits and 1,500 Facebook shares. Way to go for making a prat of yourself.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 24, 2011)

.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 24, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This is an outrage


facebooked


----------



## Fingers (Nov 25, 2011)

Ben has got his arse in the local paper

http://www.cambridgefirst.co.uk/new...arents_after_disgusting_racist_rant_1_1136845


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Ben has got his arse in the local paper
> 
> http://www.cambridgefirst.co.uk/new...arents_after_disgusting_racist_rant_1_1136845



His parents doing a bit of damage limitation. They couldn't possibly of known about his behaviour. Of course not.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 25, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> His parents doing a bit of damage limitation. They couldn't possibly of known about his behaviour. Of course not.



Why would they?

My parents never knew about my similar behaviour in my younger days, that's the drugs not the racist shit BTW.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 25, 2011)

Right, i FUCKING TOLD YOU this was coming.... about 300 posts ago.

The-real-EDL

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-real-EDL/239598756103186?sk=wall


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 25, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Why would they?
> 
> My parents never knew about my similar behaviour in my younger days, that's the drugs not the racist shit BTW.



^ This, my dad new nothing about my drugs and partys until i asked him for money to pay my solicitors fees


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> ^ This, my dad new nothing about my drugs and partys until i asked him for money to pay my solicitors fees



Oh dear. 

My dad knew nothing about my pirate radio activities, didn't even tell him about being caught in a raid when I was only 15, he only found out when the GPO blokes turned-up at the house to hand deliver the summon, he was not impressed although he didn't half abuse them for wasting tax-payers money and being useless jobworths.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 25, 2011)

I got raided in 97, 68 grams of vegetable matter is all they found.... that was in a tin on the table.... what they didn’t find was a whole lot worse, but well hidden... Did CS every Sunday morning for about a year  9am starts but was piss easy, we would go litter picking on the beach and smoke weed all day 

so yeah, possession with intent to supply nice


----------



## Deareg (Nov 25, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> He likes Press TV?
> 
> Oh, because the Iranians don't like the Jews?


Who said Iranians don't like Jews?


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Why would they?



I'm not talking about drugs. I hid that too(ish) what is not so easy is to hide your beliefs.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 25, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm not talking about drugs. I hid that too(ish) what is not so easy is to hide your beliefs.



Not sure about that TBH, if he can hide the drugs &, at least for a while, the £4k down in stock/takings, he could easily hide his extreme beliefs.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> he could easily hide his extreme beliefs.



From his parents who happen to also be his employer? I think not.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 25, 2011)

yeah, it's easy just dont add your mum on facebook init..


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Why would they?
> 
> My parents never knew about my similar behaviour in my younger days, that's the drugs not the racist shit BTW.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5k4GioJfY


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Right, i FUCKING TOLD YOU this was coming.... about 300 posts ago.
> 
> The-real-EDL
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-real-EDL/239598756103186?sk=wall



Calm down dear.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah, it's easy just dont add your mum on facebook init..



Mothers have a tendency to know the children better than their facebook statuses suggest.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 25, 2011)

Not speaking as a mother i wouldnt know.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Not speaking as a mother i wouldnt know.



Does your mother know you better than a random facebook 'friend'?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 25, 2011)

none of my facebook friends are random, there all people i know in real life, and most of them know a lot more about me and my lifestyle than my mother. I'm not sure where you are going with this but if you think my reply was to your post then you should look at the times of posting and notice it was infact not a reply to your posting it was a commnet made before i even read your reply.

etc


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Who said Iranians don't like Jews?



In the context of press TV, who are a mouth-piece of the Iranian state, I'm trying to imagine why he would choose that as his favourite TV. Ahmadinejad displays some pretty strong rhetoric and sabre rattling towards the state of Israel so wondered if that was the connection is all.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 25, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> In the context of press TV, who are a mouth-piece of the Iranian state, I'm trying to imagine why he would choose that as his favourite TV. Ahmadinejad displays some pretty strong rhetoric and sabre rattling towards the state of Israel so wondered if that was the connection is all.


I can't speak for that wankers motives, but I watch press tv quite a lot and have not noticed any hostility to Jews, hostility to Israel especially given Israel's own hostility towards Iran is not the same as hostility to Jews, sorry if it sounds like I am splitting hairs but I feel that it is a important distinction and should be made clear.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I can't speak for that wankers motives, but I watch press tv quite a lot and have not noticed any hostility to Jews, hostility to Israel especially given Israel's own hostility towards Iran is not the same as hostility to Jews, sorry if it sounds like I am splitting hairs but I feel that it is a important distinction and should be made clear.



I haven't seen Press TV but assumed that as a state mouth-piece it would follow Ahmadinejad's line. I'm pleased if it doesn't. And yes, he _is_ hostile towards Jews, he regurgitates all the old Elders of Zion stuff by most accounts. Anti-semitism exists in the Iranian Press as well as from the wider Arab world.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 25, 2011)

Anti-semitism exists in the global presses not just the Iranian and Arab press.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 25, 2011)

Jesus. Anyone else want to infer anything else from what I said or are we finished now?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 25, 2011)

So, moral dilemma time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-15868051

I reckon I indentify at least 3, perhaps 5, of these bastards. I reckon I have archived screenshots of them with their personal details and so on. Should I contact the police, or would that be "working with the state" or what?


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 25, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> So, moral dilemma time.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-15868051
> 
> I reckon I indentify at least 3, perhaps 5, of these bastards. I reckon I have archived screenshots of them with their personal details and so on. Should I contact the police, or would that be "working with the state" or what?



Don't do it. Someone form EverythingEDL and Still Laughing at the EDL will be doing it anyway.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 25, 2011)

The EDL page has been hacked again.
https://www.facebook.com/EDL.EnglishDefenceLeague.NS?sk=wall


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> The EDL page has been hacked again.
> https://www.facebook.com/EDL.EnglishDefenceLeague.NS?sk=wall


for those of us who avoid facebook, could you just post up a screengrab rather than a useless link?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 25, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> So, moral dilemma time.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-15868051
> 
> I reckon I indentify at least 3, perhaps 5, of these bastards. I reckon I have archived screenshots of them with their personal details and so on. Should I contact the police, or would that be "working with the state" or what?







for my money the best picture's the ginger lad on the top row fourth from the left


----------



## Deareg (Nov 25, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> for those of us who avoid facebook, could you just post up a screengrab rather than a useless link?


I tried, it says it is too long.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2011)

I quite like the one who looks a bit like that referee


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I tried, it says it is too long.


get the screengrab which would be a jpg and upload the jpg - should work easy enough


----------



## Deareg (Nov 25, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> get the screengrab which would be a jpg and upload the jpg - should work easy enough


Say that again in English


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Say that again in English


you get a screengrab which is a jpg sort of file. you should be able to use a graphics programme like photoshop to give it a name and save it - open new canvas and paste screengrab and save. when you have your jpg file then you will be able to upload it here.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 25, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> you get a screengrab which is a jpg sort of file. you should be able to use a graphics programme like photoshop to give it a name and save it - open new canvas and paste screengrab and save. when you have your jpg file then you will be able to upload it here.


Sorry can't work it out, hopefully someone will be able to do it.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 25, 2011)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f29_1322236167

Liveleak recording of BFP conference about using the EDL.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 25, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Sorry can't work it out, hopefully someone will be able to do it.



There's not much to see to be fair.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 25, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> There's not much to see to be fair.


There isn't all the frothing and outrage that we saw a couple of days ago.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 25, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Don't do it. Someone form EverythingEDL and Still Laughing at the EDL will be doing it anyway.



Yeah good point that's more their area than mine, will let them know what I know and leave it in their hands.


----------



## thriller (Nov 25, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> for those of us who avoid facebook, could you just post up a screengrab rather than a useless link?


----------



## manny-p (Nov 25, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> for those of us who avoid facebook


Wise man.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 25, 2011)

allybaba said:


> Wise man.


a few years ago i went to a conference about surveillance, where the main topic was cctv. then last year i went to another one and much less was said about cctv and a fuck of a lot about facebook and surveillance.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 25, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> and a fuck of a lot about facebook and surveillance.


I agree. I avoid it like the plague.


----------



## krink (Nov 25, 2011)

so you going to buy that motorola then thriller?


----------



## thriller (Nov 25, 2011)

krink said:


> so you going to buy that motorola then thriller?



Yeah, I went for it. 18 months contract with T-mobile. £7.80 a month. 100 min/100 text p/m. unlimited internet. free calls to landline 01, 02 03 numbers (I dont know anyone with those numbers, but still...


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 25, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Just spotted Kevin Watmough on facebook : www.facebook.com/redwatch88



anyone remember the story about watfor looking after morrison when he was getting so drunk he had taken to wearing incontinence pants? and by the way, all this talk about drugs and soccer has seen this thread become a lauging stock i tell you, a laughing stock!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 25, 2011)

ah his facebook is so sweet, he says wilf the beast browning is his guru! clearly still on the bostik strangler.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 26, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Anti-semitism exists in the global presses not just the Iranian and Arab press.



Oh, that makes it ok then.


----------



## krink (Nov 26, 2011)

thriller said:


> Yeah, I went for it. 18 months contract with T-mobile. £7.80 a month. 100 min/100 text p/m. unlimited internet. free calls to landline 01, 02 03 numbers (I dont know anyone with those numbers, but still...



that's sounds a great deal. ideal for me. will you post the link? ta.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 26, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I haven't seen Press TV but assumed that as a state mouth-piece it would follow Ahmadinejad's line. I'm pleased if it doesn't. And yes, he _is_ hostile towards Jews, he regurgitates all the old Elders of Zion stuff by most accounts. Anti-semitism exists in the Iranian Press as well as from the wider Arab world.


I don't want to keep this one going, but, How do you know that anti Semitism exists in the Iranian press?
I know a few Iranians as well and none of them have ever expressed any anti Semitism.


----------



## thriller (Nov 26, 2011)

krink said:


> that's sounds a great deal. ideal for me. will you post the link? ta.



I'm not sure you will be able to get it. I've been with T-Mobile for nearly 5 years. My upgrade was due and they offered me samsung galaxy II for £17 pm. I told them that was too much to pay. He asked what am I looking for in a phone? I said: a decent camera/video and a phone I could download apps on to play games on the bus/tube to work. The guy then offered this phone and claimed it was an one off offer and if I didn't accept it there and then, I couldn't call them back later to get it. It was now or never . I could have got it for £5 a month but that was for 24 months. I think I should have gone for that, tbh especially with all the flat bills/rent etc to pay. I wasn't prepared to pay anything over £15 pm. I'm waiting for it to be delivered and already bought a case for it 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-V4-..._MobilePhonesCasesPouches&hash=item2312bf346c

Anyway, might be worth calling t-mobile and say you know someone who got this deal and see if they will accept?


----------



## krink (Nov 26, 2011)

thriller said:


> I'm not sure you will be able to get it. I've been with T-Mobile for nearly 5 years. My upgrade was due and they offered me samsung galaxy II for £17 pm. I told them that was too much to pay. He asked what am I looking for in a phone? I said: a decent camera/video and a phone I could download apps on to play games on the bus/tube to work. The guy then offered this phone and claimed it was an one off offer and if I didn't accept it there and then, I couldn't call them back later to get it. It was now or never . I could have got it for £5 a month but that was for 24 months. I think I should have gone for that, tbh especially with all the flat bills/rent etc to pay. I wasn't prepared to pay anything over £15 pm. I'm waiting for it to be delivered and already bought a case for it
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-V4-..._MobilePhonesCasesPouches&hash=item2312bf346c
> 
> Anyway, might be worth calling t-mobile and say you know someone who got this deal and see if they will accept?



nice one, cheers bud. i'll give it a go.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 27, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> a few years ago i went to a conference about surveillance, where the main topic was cctv. then last year i went to another one and much less was said about cctv and a fuck of a lot about facebook and surveillance.



Yep. Amazing how naive some people are about e-security.
Then again, it's not any of these things in isolation that are a massive problem (although facebook is worrying), it's how they, brought together, add up.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 27, 2011)

I recently downloaded a facebook app for my phone. For those who don't use it, facebook recommends people for you to add as "friends". Since I downloaded the app it's started recommending people who have no "friends in common" with me but who I do know - for about 2 weeks I was baffled as to how facebook knew I knew these people and then it dawned on me - it's getting them from the address book in my phone, which in turn means that facebook knows whose numbers I have on my mobile. I'm not too happy about this - when I downloaded the app it didn't say anything about accessing personal stuff stored on my phone - what other information might they have taken from it? Before this happened I didn't take the stuff about facebook and serveillance seriously - I assumed that so long as I didn't put anything on there that the authorities could use against me I'd be fine. I suppose the terms and conditions everyone ticks the box for but doesn't read said something about this but... well... nobody reads that do they?


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 27, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I don't want to keep this one going, but, How do you know that anti Semitism exists in the Iranian press?
> I know a few Iranians as well and none of them have ever expressed any anti Semitism.



Ahmadinejad is extremely and openly anti semetic and has been voted in twice. Seen as politics and the press go hand in hand in Iran one could deduce that there must at least be a pinch of anti semitism in the Iranian press. That and the fact that the Ayatollah/government has a lot of/complete power over the press.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 27, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Ahmadinejad is extremely and openly anti semetic and has been voted in twice. Seen as politics and the press go hand in hand, one could deduce that there must at least be a pinch of anti semitism in the Iranian press. That and the fact that the Ayatollah has a lot of power over the press.


Have you got any examples of his anti-Semitism? I am genuinely interested as I used to believe this line myself but having been watching Press tv for a couple of years now I have yet to hear anything that I would consider to be anti Jewish.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 27, 2011)

You serious?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 27, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> You serious?


Very, have you got any or not?


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 27, 2011)

http://www.adl.org/main_International_Affairs/ahmadinejad_words.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_3

And you would imagine that sponsoring Hezbollah and Hamas would indicate a dislike of Israel/Jews/Zionism.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> http://www.adl.org/main_International_Affairs/ahmadinejad_words.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_3
> 
> And you would imagine that sponsoring Hezbollah and Hamas would indicate a dislike of Israel/Jews/Zionism.


i don't see how a dislike of israel (quite rational really) necessarily equates to a dislike of jews.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 27, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> http://www.adl.org/main_International_Affairs/ahmadinejad_words.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_3
> 
> And you would imagine that sponsoring Hezbollah and Hamas would indicate a dislike of Israel/Jews/Zionism.


In that case sponsoring the ANC indicated a dislike of whites or being a supporter of Irish republicanism indicated being anti English, bollocks, that is no where near proof or even an indication.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 27, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I don't want to keep this one going, but, How do you know that anti Semitism exists in the Iranian press?
> I know a few Iranians as well and none of them have ever expressed any anti Semitism.



I read about it once. It was about the political cartoons such as the one in my post which plays on anti-semitic stereotypes. Obviously not all the press nor all Iranians will hold those views. But the point is that a paper/s is allowed to get away with printing such material.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 27, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I read about it once. It was about the political cartoons such as the one in my post which plays on anti-semitic stereotypes. Obviously not all the press nor all Iranians will hold those views. But the point is that a paper/s is allowed to get away with printing such material.


I don't want to seem like I am denying that it exists, it is just that I take nothing in the British or American media at face value and this is where I imagine we are all forming our opinions on Iran, even the odd examples are not proof, just look at all the anti Muslim shit that we are getting in our own media day after day, as I have said, I have not seen or heard any myself and until I do I will keep an open mind.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 27, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I don't want to seem like I am denying that it exists, it is just that I take nothing in the British or American media at face value and this is where I imagine we are all forming our opinions on Iran, even the odd examples are not proof, just look at all the anti Muslim shit that we are getting in our own media day after day, as I have said, I have not seen or heard any myself and until I do I will keep an open mind.



Well that aside, it's been reported recently that Ahmadinejad has been repeatedly quoting 9/11 inside job world Jewish government stuff. Unless our media is lying. But then that's a conspiracy theory in itself.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 27, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Well that aside, it's been reported recently that Ahmadinejad has been repeatedly quoting 9/11 inside job world Jewish government stuff. Unless our media is lying. But then that's a conspiracy theory in itself.


We might as well leave it at this then, I hate it when the debate starts going around in circles


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 27, 2011)

Deareg said:


> We might as well leave it at this then, I hate it when the debate starts going around in circles



Fair dos. Although if it was the far right doing the holocaust denial then I'm sure your stance would be very different.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Fair dos. Although if it was the far right doing the holocaust denial then I'm sure your stance would be very different.


Iran is to the far right on my political compass


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> In that case sponsoring the ANC indicated a dislike of whites or being a supporter of Irish republicanism indicated being anti English, bollocks, that is no where near proof or even an indication.



Hezbollah and Hamas' ideology concerning Israel differs totally to that of Irish opionion of the British.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Hezbollah and Hamas' ideology concerning Israel differs totally to that of Irish opionion of the British.



I'd say the root cause of it is very similar.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Iran is to the far right on my political compass



So you're either refusing to accept that a far right politician who is on record being anti-semitic _is_ anti-semitic, or you accept that he is but turn a blind eye and pretend he isn't due to the fact he isn't white. Neither an honourable position particularly.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Didn't Ahmadinejad (or however you spell it) hold a conference for holocaust revisionists a few years back? Or was that western propaganda too?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> So you're either refusing to accept that a far right politician who is on record being anti-semitic _is_ anti-semitic, or you accept that he is but turn a blind eye and pretend he isn't due to the fact he isn't white. Neither an honourable position particularly.


Recorded by who? for fucks sake, by the yanks? the Brits? the Israelis? any other of Iran's sworn enemies or oil grabbers? give me some respected independent sources and I will gladly join in the chorus of "Oh what a cunt he is", but please, I have been lied to too many fucking times to believe anything that shower of lying, thieving murdering bastards say.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm sorry but didn't he once offer to host an internationa; conference on whether or not the holocaust actually happened? That's a verifiable example of anti-semitism right there just google it.


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 28, 2011)

he did host it afaik


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

I am reading that link that was posted now, it did take place and some of those attending are no doubt only there for one reason. Apart from the fact that some of those in attendance should not have been allowed if the idea was intended as historical research it does not in itself prove Iranian anti semtism from what I have read so far.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I am reading that link that was posted now, it did take place and some of those attending are no doubt only there for one reason. Apart from the fact that some of those in attendance should not have been allowed if the idea was intended as historical research it does not in itself prove Iranian anti semtism from what I have read so far.



This is depressing, you're better than this, surely?

Imagine if any other world leader hosted a conference debating whether the holocaust had happened, would you have such difficulties in describing them as anti-semitic.

Clearly not all, and not even a majority, of Iranian people are anti-semitic, but some clearly are including Ahmedinajad


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I am reading that link that was posted now, it did take place and some of those attending are no doubt only there for one reason. Apart from the fact that some of those in attendance should not have been allowed if the idea was intended as historical research it does not in itself prove Iranian anti semtism from what I have read so far.



But we'd have to say the same about all "revisionist" groups and historians if we were to take their stated aims at face value - they _never_ say they want to deny the holocaust - all they ever say is that they want an open debate, proper historical research etc. If it was really about having a sensible debate, or "reviewing the global image of the holocaust" then I'd have thought the input of people like Norman Finkelstein would be a must - but such people are notable only by their absence.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> This is depressing, you're better than this, surely?
> 
> Imagine if any other world leader hosted a conference debating whether the holocaust had happened, would you have such difficulties in describing them as anti-semitic.
> 
> Clearly not all, and not even a majority, of Iranian people are anti-semitic, but some clearly are including Ahmedinajad


How can you say that clearly not a majority of Iranians are not anti semetic? What are you basing your argument on? stop passing your opinions off as fact or at least take the time to explain why you are saying what you are, I have often wondered myself at the breakdown of holocaust victims, Jews, disabled, gypsies political activists, gays etc, does that make me a holocaust denier? there were also Jews speaking at that conference, Are they anti semites too?  you should really stop with the emotional brow beating and demanding that I accept something as factual without proof.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> But we'd have to say the same about all "revisionist" groups and historians if we were to take their stated aims at face value - they _never_ say they want to deny the holocaust - all they ever say is that they want an open debate, proper historical research etc. If it was really about having a sensible debate, or "reviewing the global image of the holocaust" then I'd have thought the input of people like Norman Finkelstein would be a must - but such people are notable only by their absence.



The conference was not about denying the holocaust, read the page that you posted.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> The conference was not about denying the holocaust, read the page that you posted.



Of course, silly me. It was about trying to create opportunities "for suitable scientific research so that the hidden and unhidden angles of this most important political issue of the 20th century becomes more transparent", "creat[ing] an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust".

The Iranian Foreign Minister said of the conference, "If the official version of the Holocaust is thrown into doubt, then the identity and nature of Israel will be thrown into doubt."

How foolish of me, clearly I got the wrong end of the stick.


----------



## thriller (Nov 28, 2011)

so any edl news........?


----------



## Corax (Nov 28, 2011)

There hasn't been enough in the way of amusing screenshots or bitter lecturing recently.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> The conference was not about denying the holocaust, read the page that you posted.



Griffin doesn't deny the holocaust either. Just quibbles over the figures involved. Perhaps Mossad and other Western media smear him too. I can't believe I'm reading the stuff you're coming out with on here tbh.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2011)

erm, i think they got hacked again,

oh these people look cool

*English Defence League Cyber Knights*



> We Are A Team Of Hackers, That Is Out To Take revenge!
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/English-Defence-League-Cyber-Knights/130683207041604
> 
> 1 person likes this


----------



## thriller (Nov 28, 2011)

1 person likes. lol


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't see how a dislike of israel (quite rational really) necessarily equates to a dislike of jews.



Israel is the Jewish state, surely if one wants to wipe Israel of the map that would include wiping the Jews of the map also? Holocaust part two?


----------



## Corax (Nov 28, 2011)

A requires B doesn't mean that B requires A.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Of course, silly me. It was about trying to create opportunities "for suitable scientific research so that the hidden and unhidden angles of this most important political issue of the 20th century becomes more transparent", "creat[ing] an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust".
> 
> The Iranian Foreign Minister said of the conference, "If the official version of the Holocaust is thrown into doubt, then the identity and nature of Israel will be thrown into doubt."
> 
> How foolish of me, clearly I got the wrong end of the stick.


And obviously the Jews who participated got the wrong end of the stick too.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Israel is the Jewish state, surely if one wants to wipe Israel of the map that would include wiping the Jews of the map also? Holocaust part two?


Simplistic and inaccurate bollox.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Israel is the Jewish state, surely if one wants to wipe Israel of the map that would include wiping the Jews of the map also? Holocaust part two?



The true Zion is the Jewish Autonomous Oblast...

...idiot


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

So Ahmadinejad wanted to wipe Israel off the map and do what with the Jewish inhabitants? Push them into the sea? Or was that Hamas...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Israel is the Jewish state, surely if one wants to wipe Israel of the map that would include wiping the Jews of the map also? Holocaust part two?


Do jews live outside of Israel?


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

I believe so. Get to the point.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> So Ahmadinejad wanted to wipe Israel off the map


I believe that the accuracy of that statement has been challenged, you are obviously more than happy to accept the Americans version of it's meaning.
Instead of me and you arguing over who said what and what was meant, here is a list of Iranian newspapers that I have been going through looking for some anti jewish articles, why don't you do the same and get back to me if you find some?

http://www.parstimes.com/media/iran/


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

pars times is one newspaper. I imagine the state run papers are much much worse.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> pars times is one newspaper. I imagine the state run papers are much much worse.


Click the fucking link.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> I believe so. Get to the point.


That this fact then makes this claim



> Israel is the Jewish state, surely if one wants to wipe Israel of the map that would include wiping the Jews of the map also? Holocaust part two?


utter nonsense.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

tbh jeseuscrept, we were all just waiting for your coming out ball...and here we are


----------



## albionism (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Israel is the Jewish state, surely if one wants to wipe Israel of the map that would include wiping the Jews of the map also? Holocaust part two?



I know plenty of Jews who fucking hate the state of Israel. Are they anti-semitic too?


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> tbh jeseuscrept, we were all just waiting for your coming out ball...and here we are



Huh?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Huh?


Reply to my other post jesus.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> we were all



You weren't doing anything with anyone, nobody likes you you cunt. That's plain to see.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That this fact then makes this claim



What? lol, shurrup talking drunkard gibberish.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> You weren't doing anything with anyone, nobody likes you you cunt. That's plain to see.


Make the most of the time you have left.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

''Wiping Israel of the map'' wouldn't amount to genocide? What did Ahmadinejad mean then?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> You weren't doing anything with anyone, nobody likes you you cunt. That's plain to see.



I like him.  He's good people.

(Feel free to put me on cunt list too, sweetie xxx)


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Make the most of the time you have left.



Why? Because I pointed out what lot's of people on here point out daily, i.e you're a cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> ''Wiping Israel of the map'' wouldn't amount to genocide? What did Ahmadinejad mean then?


Who are you quoting jesus?

Why did you ignore my post that wiped your earlier claim off the face of earth?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 28, 2011)

Wiping a state from the map would not be genocide, genocide is where you try to kill every last member of the race/culture.

It might be considered ethnic cleansing though, if Amihwatsit also intended all the jews in israel to fuck off elsewhere


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Why? Because I pointed out what lot's of people on here point out daily, i.e you're a cunt.


Nah, because once _you lot_ let one thing out of the bag the whole lot usually comes tumbling out soon after...shall we pull the string?


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> It might be considered ethnic cleansing though, if Amihwatsit also intended all the jews in israel to fuck off elsewhere



Thanks for correcting me.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Nah, because once _you lot_ let one thing out of the bag the whole lot usually comes tumbling out soon after...shall we pull the string?



Sorry, what have I let out of the bag?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Sorry, what have I let out of the bag?


Reply to my earlier post.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Nah, because once _you lot_ let one thing out of the bag the whole lot usually comes tumbling out soon after...shall we pull the string?



You lot? Which lot? I don't have an agenda if that's what you're suggesting.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Reply to my earlier post.



Nah


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Nah


...off the face of the earth.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That this fact then makes this claim
> 
> utter nonsense.



How?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> How?


Because

1)the claim



> Israel is the Jewish state, surely if one wants to wipe Israel of the map that would include wiping the Jews of the map also? Holocaust part two?


entails all the worlds jews living in Israel.

2) the first clause is not true, relevant or logically progressive your conclusion.

You thick fuck.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

He's anti semetic, he's homophobic, he's misogynystic, he's a cunt. You know he is. Stop defending it.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2011)

Who are you talking to jesus?


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 28, 2011)

You, as you seemed to be the only other person in the thread.


----------



## Corax (Nov 28, 2011)

Nah, there's plenty of us watching, mostly looking a bit like this ------------->


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> And obviously the Jews who participated got the wrong end of the stick too.



The words useful and idiots spring to mind. And, since they were Neturei Karta, the word loons is also at the forefront of my mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Israel is the Jewish state, surely if one wants to wipe Israel of the map that would include wiping the Jews of the map also? Holocaust part two?


bollocks. i believe that the state of israel's a foul creation. but it doesn't by any means follow that i think jews as such are foul. i would treat a zionist as i would a fascist - but that doesn't mean i equate jews with nazis.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> The words useful and idiots spring to mind. And, since they were Neturei Karta, the word loons is also at the forefront of my mind.


Yet you are still unable to come up with links to back up your claims, Why don't you have a look at the link to Iranian papers that I provided and then come back with some proof?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> You weren't doing anything with anyone, *nobody likes you you cunt*. That's plain to see.



Prick. How's about playing the ball next time? And the bit in bold describes you far more accurately than it does him.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Yet you are still unable to come up with links to back up your claims, Why don't you have a look at the link to Iranian papers that I provided and then come back with some proof?



What claims might they be? Have you confused me with someone else by any chance?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> What claims might they be? Have you confused me with someone else by any chance?


Are you not also claiming that Iran or at least its president are anti semetic? sorry if I am mistaken.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Are you not also claiming that Iran or at least its president are anti semetic? sorry if I am mistaken.



I think Ahmadinejad probably is, and have posted a link to the wiki on his holocaust conference as evidence. I don't think Iran is though.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think Ahmadinejad probably is, and have posted a link to the wiki on his holocaust conference as evidence. I don't think Iran is though.


I don't know if he is or not, but I am asking those that claim he is to provide proof which I would think if true to be an easy thing to do, non of them have so far, I have also searched for proof myself and have not found any.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 28, 2011)

Anyone else had a look at this yet?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Finding-the-unwashed/242855599111642


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I don't know if he is or not, but I am asking those that claim he is to provide proof which I would think if true to be an easy thing to do, non of them have so far, I have also searched for proof myself and have not found any.



I'd say holding what is, when you get past the obvious cover, a holocaust denial conference is fairly convincing myself.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 28, 2011)

Also this, this, this and this. Or are you asking for the words from the horse's mouth so to speak? If so I'm not sure you'll find it, I think he's probably smart enough to keep at least a thin cover.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 29, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> Also this, this, this and this. Or are you asking for the words from the horse's mouth so to speak? If so I'm not sure you'll find it, I think he's probably smart enough to keep at least a thin cover.


Thanks, he is a sick fuck all right for saying what he did.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 29, 2011)

I wonder if they'll manage to cause much bother Wednesday.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 29, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I wonder if they'll manage to cause much bother Wednesday.


the iranians or the edl?


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 29, 2011)

If the mujahideen were sent in to break picket lines and bust up rallies i would be most amused.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 29, 2011)

.....as long as the EDL were on an exchange program sent out to the middle east.


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 29, 2011)

Storm in a tea cup.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 29, 2011)

meanwhile, back at the EDL!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## krink (Nov 29, 2011)

i usually read the edl news website but today I clicked on that edl news page on facebook - have you read it? some of the opinions are just ridiculous. for instance; a woman who says some racist stuff should have her kids taken off her by social services. what the fuck? that would mean me, my brothers, sisters and probably every kid I knocked around with would have been in care. It seems the only line on that page is that edl/bnp etc are a bit 'common' rather than anything political.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Nov 29, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> .....as long as the EDL were on an exchange program sent out to the middle east.


Funny you should mention that ...


> *Supposed “supporter” of Israel running around West Bank looking for guns to get his picture taken with*
> 
> *Posted on Friday, 15 September, 2006*
> 
> ...


Read more: http://drew3000.net/2006/09/15/supp...oking-for-guns-to-get-his-picture-taken-with/


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2011)

scab liverpool EDL attack occupy. from facebook!
Liverpool Division English Defence League EDL
'Join us tonight at 6pm as we stage a legitimate approach and discussions at the occupy site at the Wellington and Waterloo monument in town. 6pm.'

come on liverpool AF, sort em out!


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 30, 2011)

There is a screenshot of Liam Pinkham talking about it on the Hope not Hate facebook if someone could oblige.


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 30, 2011)

http://streetvoiceuk2011.blogspot.com/2011/11/shaun-dodd-total-bloody-chaos-anti-nazi.html

There is an image of the fb convo on here. It is also an article that might be of interest to some.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2011)

Did they get pigged by the edl?


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 1, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> http://streetvoiceuk2011.blogspot.com/2011/11/shaun-dodd-total-bloody-chaos-anti-nazi.html
> 
> There is an image of the fb convo on here. It is also an article that might be of interest to some.



Jesus how obscure is that blog. Steve DIY used to be on here years ago


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 1, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Jesus how obscure is that blog. Steve DIY used to be on here years ago



Isn't this the same guy who used to post on the Red Action forum, and often was in receipt of lot of internet buns for organising anti-fash gigs with zero security?


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 1, 2011)

Very


MellySingsDoom said:


> Isn't this the same guy who used to post on the Red Action forum, and often was in receipt of lot of internet buns for organising anti-fash gigs with zero security?



you can find examples of his general insecurity all over the net


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 2, 2011)

http://uaf.org.uk/2011/12/edl-north-east-boss-spence-jailed-after-attack-on-socialist-meeting/

*EDL’s North East boss Spence jailed for attack on left meeting*


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 3, 2011)

its quite surprising how plod have reacted to the EDL etc. so many have gone down thats its put a dent in future events. altho it gives the edl notoriety getting nicked creates long term problems ie, money, partners, kids, work, costs etc and many have gone 'it just aint worth it.' like tommy.


----------



## barney_pig (Dec 3, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://uaf.org.uk/2011/12/edl-north-east-boss-spence-jailed-after-attack-on-socialist-meeting/
> 
> *EDL’s North East boss Spence jailed for attack on left meeting*


anyone find it odd that the UAF report is based on the facebook twitterings of the various edlers involved.
 Wasn't anyone from the SWP/UAF at the court? Surely they would have been the victims of these assaults?


----------



## thriller (Dec 3, 2011)

thriller said:


>



my tommy robinson account has been disabled, LOL


----------



## john x (Dec 3, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> anyone find it odd that the UAF report is based on the facebook twitterings of the various edlers involved.



I find it even odder that there is no coverage of the convictions and sentences by the local media.

No mention of it in the Evening Chronicle which has covered the case since the original attack or indeed The Journal or Sunday Sun. The local BBC and ITV news make no mention of the story either.

john x


----------



## barney_pig (Dec 3, 2011)

there are a number of newcastle/ NE comrades who follow this thread. anyone there know anything about this?


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 3, 2011)

john x said:


> I find it even odder that there is no coverage of the convictions and sentences by the local media.
> 
> No mention of it in the Evening Chronicle which has covered the case since the original attack or indeed The Journal or Sunday Sun. The local BBC and ITV news make no mention of the story either.
> 
> john x



Just checked his facebook and his girlfriend has said that he's got 7 months, their son 8 months and the other five were jailed too.

EDIT: just seen that that's what was reported in the UAF report. Looks legit imo.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 3, 2011)

john x said:


> I find it even odder that there is no coverage of the convictions and sentences by the local media.



Newcastle's Evening Chronicle have reported on it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 3, 2011)

also, there is the feeling that the EDL are old news and pretty much over - schisms, moving in with the fluffies, boredom. why give them any more publicity? just another pissed yobbo. all they get is bad coverage.


----------



## john x (Dec 3, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> why give them any more publicity?



That's not how the media works, especially the local media.

If there was an outbreak of anthrax in Newcastle and half the population is killed, then they probably wouldn't give the EDL convictions any coverage. If however the only other action in court that day was a 65 year-old man given a fine for having an out of date tax disc, then it is highly likely that they will cover the EDL story.

Whether or not the EDL should be given any more publicity or not, would not come into it.

john x


----------



## kodokan (Dec 3, 2011)

In regards to the non reactionary posters who have asked what has caused the EDL and what are the solutions? Both are complex questions.

EDL members previously would have been working class males who worked in manufacturing/blue collar jobs etc, in the last 30 yrs this group has been dramatically disempowered both financially, community wise and within their role in the family. Traditional working class communities have been fragmented, with the destruction of manufacturing and via social and enviromental changes.

We have one million young people unemployed, the self serving trade union movement does nothing to reach out to these people. Is it any wonder they are totally alienated from the politics of class ?

In juxtaposition we have a media which for 10 years has led a political and sinister campaign against Muslims.

The Sun, Mail etc are responsible for creating a hysterical environment in regards to Islamic terrorism. They are massively responsible for also creating the atmosphere which has led to the EDL.

Everyone needs a group they feel they can belong to, groups like the EDL offer a collective focal point for disempowered working class white males to feel empowered. Just like football hooligan firms have in the past, just like universites do for the middle classes.

We also have, isolated Islamic communites often with cultural attitues which are alien to the working class communites they exist alongside, some towns in the north of England are totally polarised.

Thus simply mocking the EDL is not enough, trade unions need to reconnect with the poorest in society not just middle class public sector workers and engage them.

Islamic communites should also be engaged and their most backward cultural practises challenged.

Efforts should be made to engage people from both communites and to integrate as much as possible.

The EDL is simply a symptom,.

Mocking them wont make the cause go away and unless the causes are radically challenged they will get worse.

Mocking people often with obvious social problems and educational problems as UAF often do is not going to sort the problem out.


----------



## john x (Dec 3, 2011)

kodokan said:


> Mocking them wont make the cause go away



Is anyone seriously suggesting that it will? 

john x


----------



## kodokan (Dec 3, 2011)

john x said:


> Is anyone seriously suggesting that it will?
> 
> john x



That seems to be the UAF approach.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 3, 2011)

john x said:


> Is anyone seriously suggesting that it will?
> 
> john x



makes my days at work go faster


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 4, 2011)

Seriously though, completely ridiculing the EDL isn't a bad thing. Turning them into a national joke is a better thing to do than talking them up, for instance, it really hurts their pride when you refuse to take them seriously. I remember seeing the reactions to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiQQ3VSmxFQ on some EDL forums and it drove the fucking mad. so all joking aside its not a bad tactic.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 4, 2011)

why are the EDL OBSESSED with pedophiles? they're always banging on and on about them.


----------



## john x (Dec 4, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> why are the EDL OBSESSED with pedophiles? they're always banging on and on about them.


Someone told them that Mohammed married a 9 year-old and therefore paedophilia is allowed in the Quran.

Then they see these 'Asian men grooming schoolgirl stories' and get all excited that it is all part of this Islamic conspiracy to take over the UK. When it is pointed out that most of the Asian blokes convicted are not actually practicing Muslims, they blame the 'Marxist' media and government for hiding the truth from us!

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 4, 2011)

is it not the same thing as when its an asian blokes it cos theyre muslim and if its a white bloke its cos theyre a pervert? they think cos we oppose EDL etc we must therefore support 'pedos!'


----------



## john x (Dec 4, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> is it not the same thing as when its an asian blokes it cos theyre muslim and if its a white bloke its cos theyre a pervert? they think cos we oppose EDL etc we must therefore support 'pedos!'


They also remain spectacularly quiet about Catholic priests fiddling with kids.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 4, 2011)

Or the fact that one of the Founders of the EDL is a convicted nonce....


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Or the fact that one of the Founders of the EDL is a convicted nonce....



make that pricey and also michael coates aka mikey blue eyes. oops. 'political prisoners' of the martin gilleard stripe!


----------



## john x (Dec 4, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Or the fact that one of the Founders of the EDL is a convicted nonce....


The truth is that apart from the generic News of the World 'Hang all Paediatricians' response to child abuse, all the EDL are interested in is using it as a stick to beat brown people with.

This was shown up quite nicely a number of months ago, when someone posted a link to a court case involving a man with an 'Asian sounding' name on one of their crappy facebook pages. It illicited the usual "hang 'em, flog 'em, send 'em home', knee-jerk responses by people who obviously hadn't read the article. It took a 'troll' to point out that the name in the headline didn't refer to the defendant who if you scrolled to the bottom of the page, was a white English man.

The link, and comments, were hastily removed.

They care as much about child abuse as they do about women's rights, gay rights and human rights. Shower of badly educated, gullible shits, the lot of them.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 4, 2011)

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/Td4DxyDDWIFzq8KY


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 4, 2011)

i just cant imagine many of the edl chimps in church for midnight mass on xmas eve somehow. unless stella and charlie are replacing the crap wine and biscuit!


----------



## john x (Dec 5, 2011)

The EDL has just published the minutes of the 'Way Forward' meeting last month.

Doesn't seem to have been much discussion, just Tommy announcing the link up with the BFP and people asking him a few questions.

john x


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Dec 5, 2011)

john x said:


> The EDL has just published the minutes of the 'Way Forward' meeting last month.
> 
> Doesn't seem to have been much discussion, just Tommy announcing the link up with the BFP and people asking him a few questions.
> 
> john x


 
On several occasions I have asked, via FB where the EDL live, EDL supporters to comment on the internal constitutional procedures via which the EDL came to support BFP.  Not once have I been answered.

I was answered by a BFP admin, who said (I am paraphrasing) that seeing as the EDL have no members there was no need for such arrangements and it wasn't directly BFP business anyhow.

It was after I asked how this sat with the BFP "principle" denouncing of the lack of democracy within the EU that I was banned.

How this banning sits with their "principle" on free speech (top of the list if you can be arsed to look) will remain a curio you can draw your own judgements from.


----------



## john x (Dec 5, 2011)

> *In our union with the BFP and through respectability, we will be taken seriously by the political class. We will be working alongside household names and be assured of political and financial support from among others, the USA..*



This shows what a political cul-de-sac these people are in!

They seem to think that the BFP is some kind of major respectable political party which will give them access to 'household names'.

Respectability guys? It is just another miniscule far-right party largely populated by BNP rejects!

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 5, 2011)

they will not be taken seriously. the amount of bad publicity, arrests and violent racism the EDL have been involved in is not going to be forgotten and BFP is 1 of about 1/2 dozen mini-orgs who have no realistic chance of election mainly cos they are are exbnp - bennet, ward, mullens, stafford. it is tommys way of backing out of the EDL and avoiding more jail time.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

And anyway, we already have the Tory's


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 5, 2011)

hacked again

https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-English-Defence-League/298266110195476


----------



## treelover (Dec 5, 2011)

john x said:


> Is anyone seriously suggesting that it will?
> 
> john x



malestesa has made a career out of it, mocking the EDL...


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> hacked again
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-English-Defence-League/298266110195476


This is great news.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 5, 2011)

The infidels have been hacked as well

http://www.facebook.com/pages/NWI-Fightback/252666431434495


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2011)

This is great news


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 5, 2011)

If only they could hack my heart.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 5, 2011)

Fingers said:


> The infidels have been hacked as well
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/NWI-Fightback/252666431434495


Turns out it was one of the admins fucking about, the others didn't see the funny side though and have been told that 80 odd of them unliked the page before finding out it was a joke.


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 5, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Turns out it was one of the admins fucking about, the others didn't see the funny side though and have been told that 80 odd of them unliked the page before finding out it was a joke.



LOL


----------



## Fingers (Dec 5, 2011)

ha ha


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 5, 2011)

To be fair at least they have some kind of sense of humor..... for racist cunts i mean.


----------



## thriller (Dec 5, 2011)

pahahah. z company are awesome.


----------



## jesuscrept (Dec 5, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> Seriously though, completely ridiculing the EDL isn't a bad thing. Turning them into a national joke is a better thing to do than talking them up, for instance, it really hurts their pride when you refuse to take them seriously. I remember seeing the reactions to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiQQ3VSmxFQ on some EDL forums and it drove the fucking mad. so all joking aside its not a bad tactic.



Unite Against Fashionistas


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 5, 2011)

treelover said:


> malestesa has made a career out of it, mocking the EDL...


I wouldn't call doing something for two years making a career of it


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

So, what do people make of this?

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/beyond-the-bnp/

Does this mean a divorce between Searchlight and Hope Not Hate?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 6, 2011)

This should probably be on the thread about this rather than this shit one but the 4 page future orientation HnH document does not mention SL once - whilst finding time and space to claim credit for the rise in the BNP vote in B&D and the izzardisation of anti-fascism _(vote UKIP/labour/tory/lib-dem - not BNP_)


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 6, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This should probably be on the thread about this rather than this shit one but the 4 page future orientation HnH document does not mention SL once - whilst finding time and space to claim credit fo rthe rise in the BNP vote in B&D and the *izzardisation* of anti-fascism _(vote UKIP/labour/tory/lib-dem - not BNP_)



Can I ask for permission to use the highlighted word above?  (The appropriate copyright royalties will be sent your way)


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 6, 2011)

Money to appropriate fighting fund please.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 6, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Money to appropriate fighting fund please.



It shall be done.  Thanks for granting permission.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This should probably be on the thread about this rather than this shit one but the 4 page future orientation HnH document does not mention SL once - whilst finding time and space to claim credit for the rise in the BNP vote in B&D and the izzardisation of anti-fascism _(vote UKIP/labour/tory/lib-dem - not BNP_)



This is one of the things that annoyed me about the HnH triumpalism in Barking and Dagenham, yes they wiped them out, but if you actually look at the numbers the BNP's electoral performance in 2010, in terms of votes cast, was very impressive indeed. It's more to do with targeted Labour campaigning, often at the expense of other marginal seats, than effective anti-fasicsm, that they lost their councillors. If I'm not mistaken Nick Griffin's 6,000 or so voters and B&D is the best electoral performance of any far-right leader in UK history. Is that right?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 6, 2011)

oi, to those who worry about class prejudice showing through when mocking the EDL, well yes it can be evident- even insofar as mocking bad spelling and suddenly pious attitudes to drink and drugs from avowed caners. End of the day though these lot are not an expression of white working class consciousness reacting against marginalisation and economic deprivation etc. They genuinely are just nasty, thick far righters with casual (lol) links to older far right parties and generalised paki bashers.

They are also a bloody lunatic fringe given far more significance than is deserved.

If I could afford the time and money to go laugh at them I would, but risk being kettled in with them due to my shaved head and inarticulate vocal register.

The real reactions to economic deprivation and alienation from mainstream political discourse can be seen elsewhere. This lot, for however long they limp on, are just thick racists.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

tbh the most effective form of anti-fascism now isn't forming squads to go and twat the EDL, the most important thing we can do to counter fascism is to build a political movement that is capable of capitalising the popular discontent that we're going to see from the collapse of the EU and continued recession instead of the fascists.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 6, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> tbh the most effective form of anti-fascism now isn't forming squads to go and twat the EDL, the most important thing we can do to counter fascism is to build a political movement that is capable of capitalising the popular discontent that we're going to see from the collapse of the EU and continued recession instead of the fascists.


That was always the most effective way.

In the meantime.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 6, 2011)

Well clearly, but there was a need to counter the EDL physically in the short term, which still exists now although to a lesser degree, and the political situation wasn't as insane as it is now when this was happening. Now, things are different, and the urgency that we felt when the EDL first came around and that went into organising against them needs to be replaced with an urgency to create proper, functioning, and viable political alternatives now they've withdrawn from the streets.

We are on the verge of a very serious and prolonged economic crisis, which will present the best political opportunity for the left in a generation, but also for the fascists, the question now is who will win out in this battle for ideas? The centre has fallen out of european politics, and if we don't take the initiative, they will, so now the main anti-fascist priority is the same as the main anti-cuts priority, to create organizations that can win popular support for an alternative economic and political system. The two things have merged now.


----------



## Corax (Dec 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> That was always the most effective way.


The difference is that in times like this one of the major stumbling blocks, mainstream apathy, is reduced if not removed.

Now, how to tackle the other stumbling blocks...

No one's found a way of removing them in the last 50 years that I know of, which is what makes me pretty jaded about it all. Many thousands of better minds than mine have tried and failed, so I'm certainly not likely to offer any solutions. I'll welcome any that do, but I find it hard to be optimistic.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 6, 2011)

Corax said:


> The difference is that in times like this one of the major stumbling blocks, mainstream apathy, is reduced if not removed.
> 
> Now, how to tackle the other stumbling blocks...
> 
> No one's found a way of removing them in the last 50 years that I know of, which is what makes me pretty jaded about it all. Many thousands of better minds than mine have tried and failed, so I'm certainly not likely to offer any solutions. I'll welcome any that do, but I find it hard to be optimistic.


I agree, street stuff can only ever be a stopgap measure but like yourself I don't have the answer as to how to go about building a party that the working class can turn to and trust.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Dec 6, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> If I could afford the time and money to go laugh at them I would, but risk being kettled in with them due to my shaved head and inarticulate vocal register.



LOL That actually happened to me once. I went to an anti-EDL demo in Dudley (yes, I do regret it) and we got there ridiculously early so me, a mate and his son, who must have been about 13, decided to go for a wander around the city centre just to see what was going on. The answer was not a lot - loads of boarded up shops and several small groupings of twats wrapped in the St. George's cross. Fortunately we were all wearing jeans and tracky tops so we blended in fairly well. However, this proved to be our undoing when we tried to get back into the anti-EDL cordon. The stewards wouldn't let us in because our dress sense and my shaven head led them to believe we were EDL. Luckily my mate was in the SWP and was able to get hold of someone inside who came over and confirmed that we were in fact "on their side". Good job too - my mate is partially sighted which would have ruled out running away and I'm too much of a gobby twat to have kept my mouth shut when they started shouting "we hate pakis more than you".


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 6, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> LOL That actually happened to me once. I went to an anti-EDL demo in Dudley (yes, I do regret it) and we got there ridiculously early so me, a mate and his son, who must have been about 13, decided to go for a wander around the city centre just to see what was going on. The answer was not a lot - loads of boarded up shops and several small groupings of twats wrapped in the St. George's cross. Fortunately we were all wearing jeans and tracky tops so we blended in fairly well. However, this proved to be our undoing when we tried to get back into the anti-EDL cordon. The stewards wouldn't let us in because our dress sense and my shaven head led them to believe we were EDL. Luckily my mate was in the SWP and was able to get hold of someone inside who came over and confirmed that we were in fact "on their side". Good job too - my mate is partially sighted which would have ruled out running away and I'm too much of a gobby twat to have kept my mouth shut when they started shouting "we hate pakis more than you".


they are, though, correct: they do hate pakistanis more than you do.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Dec 6, 2011)




----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 6, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> they are, though, correct: they do hate pakistanis more than you do.



That should have been a semi, not a full colon.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> That should have been a semi, not a full colon.


pedant points for drringding


----------



## elfman (Dec 7, 2011)

SpineyNorman said:


> LOL That actually happened to me once. I went to an anti-EDL demo in Dudley (yes, I do regret it) and we got there ridiculously early so me, a mate and his son, who must have been about 13, decided to go for a wander around the city centre just to see what was going on. The answer was not a lot - loads of boarded up shops and several small groupings of twats wrapped in the St. George's cross. Fortunately we were all wearing jeans and tracky tops so we blended in fairly well. However, this proved to be our undoing when we tried to get back into the anti-EDL cordon. The stewards wouldn't let us in because our dress sense and my shaven head led them to believe we were EDL. Luckily my mate was in the SWP and was able to get hold of someone inside who came over and confirmed that we were in fact "on their side". Good job too - my mate is partially sighted which would have ruled out running away and I'm too much of a gobby twat to have kept my mouth shut when they started shouting "we hate pakis more than you".



Happened to me as well in Dewsbury. I have a shaved head and was wearing a Segio Tacchini hoody and blue adidas trainers. I think they only eventually let us in with UAF because there was so few of them and needed to boost the numbers somehow. I only wanted in to go to the toilet and after I went they searched the toilet to make sure I hadn't defaced it


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2011)

elfman said:


> Happened to me as well in Dewsbury. I have a shaved head and was wearing a Segio Tacchini hoody and blue adidas trainers. I think they only eventually let us in with UAF because there was so few of them and needed to boost the numbers somehow. I only wanted in to go to the toilet and after I went they searched the toilet to make sure I hadn't defaced it


haha


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 7, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> pedant points for drringding



Blimey, you could be out of a job at this rate!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Blimey, you could be out of a job at this rate!


my p45 came in the post


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 7, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> my p45 came in the post



Your post response times have speeded up though as a result!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Your post response times have speeded up though as a result!


----------



## laptop (Dec 7, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> pedant points for drringding



And points subtracted from DrRD for quibbling with a sentence that was perfectly acceptable...

Hmmm... "English Defence League"... 

* cunning plan starts to take shape *


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> That should have been a semi, not a full colon.


bet posting that gave you a semi


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 7, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


>



Why the frown? You'll have that crown snatched back from ringding in record speed! (Or have you actually been made redundant IRL which now makes me look like an insensitive dick?  ).


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Why the frown? You'll have that crown snatched back from ringding in record speed! (Or have you actually been made redundant IRL which now makes me look like an insensitive dick?  ).


there's a lot made of me being a pedant but if you read my posts you'll see there's little pedantry there, and that bit there is is often there to live up to the unfair reputation i've been awarded.

so drringding can keep the pedantry crown, and i expect him to retain it for quite some time


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 7, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> there's a lot made of me being a pedant but if you read my posts you'll see there's little pedantry there, and that bit there is is often there to live up to the unfair reputation i've been awarded.



Okay, pedant may be the wrong word (geddit?), so what's the word I'm looking for? Exacting? Pernickety?

You've always had that crown man. Not necessarily a bad thing. Infuriating at times though.


----------



## bignose1 (Dec 7, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Money to appropriate fighting fund please.


With full eddietorial control


----------



## bignose1 (Dec 7, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> my p45 came in the post


Got sacked from a skin cream factory...didnt come up to scratch..on my way out the boss said wel'l send your E45in the post...


----------



## bignose1 (Dec 7, 2011)

bignose1 said:


> Got sacked from a skin cream factory...didnt come up to scratch..on my way out the boss said wel'l send your E45in the post...


Its quiet in Basel.......

bum bum...


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This should probably be on the thread about this rather than this shit one but the 4 page future orientation HnH document does not mention SL once - whilst finding time and space to claim credit for the rise in the BNP vote in B&D and the izzardisation of anti-fascism _(vote UKIP/labour/tory/lib-dem - not BNP_)



butchers - i strongly reccomend you follow the word 'izzardisation' with a copyright symbol in case unscrupulous antifascist hacks start 'sampling' it in their own substandard and rather shoddily researched 'work.'


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 8, 2011)

bignose1 said:


> Got sacked from a skin cream factory...didnt come up to scratch..on my way out the boss said wel'l send your E45in the post...



kindly leave the stage!


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 8, 2011)

elfman said:


> Happened to me as well in Dewsbury. I have a shaved head and was wearing a Segio Tacchini hoody and blue adidas trainers. I think they only eventually let us in with UAF because there was so few of them and needed to boost the numbers somehow. I only wanted in to go to the toilet and after I went they searched the toilet to make sure I hadn't defaced it



it happened to me as well. i'd been to visit stella and charlie and was casually battering my girlfriend and seig heiling - but only at extremist muslamics not normal ones - and i had sick on me trackie top, and i got kettled with the EDL for some reason.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 8, 2011)

Read all abaht it! Infidels Latest!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 8, 2011)

treelover said:


> malestesa has made a career out of it, mocking the EDL...



http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> Read all abaht it! Infidels Latest!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/



Nice article etc but you could be accused as being as homophobic as the infidels for using homosexuality as a stick to beat them with.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 8, 2011)

Excellent as usual Malatesta, fair play!


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 8, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Nice article etc but you could be accused as being as homophobic as the infidels for using homosexuality as a stick to beat them with.



Yeah, to be honest M, the idea of your average gay bar containing lapdancers and poppers ahoy is a tad clichéd.  I'll think you'll find most gay bars are as average and regular as a "straight" (sigh....) bar.  But with better music and hotter men.  Ha!


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 8, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Yeah, to be honest M, the idea of your average gay bar containing lapdancers and poppers ahoy is a tad clichéd. I'll think you'll find most gay bars are as average and regular as a "straight" (sigh....) bar. But with better music and hotter men. Ha!



duly amended to amplify the irony and lessen any misinterpretation! thanks readers!!! M


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 8, 2011)

EDL mosque arsonists get 10 years! shame.
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/t...10-years-each-for-mosque-gas-explosion-attack


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 8, 2011)

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/uk_national_news/9410313.Pair_jailed_for_mosque_arson_attack/

link for them wont dont like EDL news etc.


----------



## thriller (Dec 8, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL mosque arsonists get 10 years! shame.
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/t...10-years-each-for-mosque-gas-explosion-attack



good to see a 10 year sentence handed out.


----------



## BlackArab (Dec 8, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Yeah, to be honest M, the idea of your average gay bar containing lapdancers and poppers ahoy is a tad clichéd. I'll think you'll find most gay bars are as average and regular as a "straight" (sigh....) bar. But with better music and hotter men. Ha!



Shite pop tunes and the odd bit of techno from what I remember.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 8, 2011)




----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 9, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Shite pop tunes and the odd bit of techno from what I remember.



"Shite pop tunes?"  That's surely not a reference to Saint Kylie of Minogue?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 9, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Yeah, to be honest M, the idea of your average gay bar containing lapdancers and poppers ahoy is a tad clichéd.  I'll think you'll find most gay bars are as average and regular as a "straight" (sigh....) bar.  But with better music and hotter men.  Ha!



I was more on about calling them gay as a cuss.  It implies that there's something wrong with being homosexual and therefore it can be used as a figure of fun.

Surely there's enough to rip the piss out of them for regarding being hardmen and their shite politics to need to resort to re-affirming negative sexuality attitudes ?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 9, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I was more on about calling them gay as a cuss. It implies that there's something wrong with being homosexual and therefore it can be used as a figure of fun.



Fair do's.  I didn't feel that myself, but I am not the be all and end of of the gays


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 9, 2011)

http://www.itv.com/central-west/arsonists-jailed47073/

Terriosts in the EDL? who would have thunk it.


----------



## jesuscrept (Dec 9, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.itv.com/central-west/arsonists-jailed47073/
> 
> Terriosts in the EDL? who would have thunk it.



I'm surprised we haven't seen more instances like this from the EDL and other similar groups to be honest.


----------



## BlackArab (Dec 9, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> "Shite pop tunes?" That's surely not a reference to Saint Kylie of Minogue?



If only, was worse much worse


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 9, 2011)

Well i for one did a LOL

http://www.twitpic.com/7qy1zj


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 10, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Fair do's. I didn't feel that myself, but I am not the be all and end of of the gays



twas duly  amended melly! thanks for pointing it out!


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 10, 2011)

interesting. reposted from islamaphobia watch whose bob pitt is an interesting writer.
http://www.irr.org.uk/2011/december/bj000010.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 10, 2011)

check 'NWI Fightback' on Facebook. EDL and Infidels descend into open threats and turf wars. lovely!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> interesting. reposted from islamaphobia watch whose bob pitt is an interesting writer.
> http://www.irr.org.uk/2011/december/bj000010.html


By interesting you must mean mad old trot in the labour party obsessed with the 50s who thinks everyone but him is a racist.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 10, 2011)

i did'nt know who he was! some of his pieces on EDL etc i thought were interesting not the 'mad old trot' per se!!!


----------



## Luther Blissett (Dec 11, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> interesting. reposted from islamaphobia watch whose bob pitt is an interesting writer.
> http://www.irr.org.uk/2011/december/bj000010.html


It's by Ryan Erfani-Ghettani, not Bob Pitt


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 11, 2011)

He didn't say it was by Pitt - he said it was from Bobb Pitt's Islamophobia watch (which it isn't really, it's from the IRR)


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 11, 2011)

apologies luther! i was that excited i forgot to credit rightly. good piece tho eh? the edl/infidels really are fucked. the facebook threats of 'we're coming to your manor to poo in your garden mister tommy' is not a good sign. that good old far right unity eh? shame.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 11, 2011)

interesting!
http://twitpic.com/7rtguu/full


----------



## BigTom (Dec 11, 2011)

EDL member claims to have planted a bomb at Birmingham Central Mosque
http://twitpic.com/7s2ezz

hmmm...


----------



## laptop (Dec 11, 2011)

malatesta32 said:


> interesting!
> http://twitpic.com/7rtguu/full



"Alan Lake" (real name Alan Ayling), interviewed by police looking for Breivik's inspiration/links, was known about.

Did I miss earlier discussion of Ann Marchini?


----------



## thriller (Dec 11, 2011)

BigTom said:


> EDL member claims to have planted a bomb at Birmingham Central Mosque
> http://twitpic.com/7s2ezz
> 
> hmmm...



how do you report things like this to the police? do yo dial 999 and say a guy on facebook has said he has planted a bomb and give his name so they look him up on facebook?


----------



## BigTom (Dec 11, 2011)

it was picked up by a reporter on twitter anyway.. there's a non-emergency number you can call. I'd be pretty sure they would know about it already - I would have thought everthing edl would have alerted them to it, or the reporter


----------



## BigTom (Dec 11, 2011)

police have been informed btw


----------



## Fingers (Dec 12, 2011)

Police do not appear to give a shit from what I have heard


----------



## Fingers (Dec 12, 2011)

OK plod are updating on this later today, one thing can be sure, he is shitting himself

look at this disaster he is cooking up for himself

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/645/4992497390.jpg


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 12, 2011)

Been arrested.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Dec 12, 2011)

BigTom said:


> police have been informed btw


Arrest has been made: https://twitter.com/#!/brumpolice/status/146204985380708352


----------



## Luther Blissett (Dec 12, 2011)

Fingers said:


> Police do not appear to give a shit from what I have heard


The mosque was searched yesterday/last night/early morn: http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?id=2909
Warrant issued early morn for perp's arrest


----------



## Fingers (Dec 12, 2011)

West Midlands plod have just lifted him. Silly boy


----------



## BigTom (Dec 12, 2011)

http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?id=2909

Full press release.. nothing found at the mosque obviously.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 12, 2011)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/e...eatening-to-blow-up-birmingham-central-mosque


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 12, 2011)

another one nicked tonight for like bomb threats or some shit..... doubt i need to say anything else.

http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?id=2917


----------



## laptop (Dec 12, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> another one nicked tonight for like bomb threats or some shit..... doubt i need to say anything else.
> 
> http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?id=2917



That's _both_ FB accounts, then


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 12, 2011)

I want my country back, you know the one where you could say you was going to blow stuff up and shit with out all this getting arrested bollocks.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 12, 2011)

might be this cool dude...

http://www.twitpic.com/7sblnq/full


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 13, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> might be this cool dude...
> 
> http://www.twitpic.com/7sblnq/full


i can't understand what he says for about the first 20 or 30 posts....


----------



## Fingers (Dec 13, 2011)

That dude was arrested as well lol  http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/press-release.asp?id=2917


----------



## xes (Dec 13, 2011)

what a bunch of fucking cunts 

I hope he/they goes to a prison with a large Muslim community.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 14, 2011)

http://englishpassport.org/2011/12/14/tommy-robinson-to-leave-the-english-defence-league-edl/

*Tommy Robinson to leave the English Defence League (EDL)*


----------



## Luther Blissett (Dec 15, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://englishpassport.org/2011/12/14/tommy-robinson-to-leave-the-english-defence-league-edl/
> 
> *Tommy Robinson to leave the English Defence League (EDL)*


They mean 19th November, not December.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 15, 2011)

entertaining anti-snowy thread on shirtfront forum - John Snowy Shaws Special Branch/Searchlight Tout. usual allegations.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 15, 2011)

good one!
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/featured/the-english-defence-league-2011-review


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 15, 2011)

http://magicsanta.ca/player.html?code=5296RQ


----------



## Fingers (Dec 17, 2011)

Liverpool Division want to beat up Martin Luther King

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fend...vision-put-contract-out-on-martin-luther-king


----------



## thriller (Dec 17, 2011)

lol


----------



## Serotonin (Dec 17, 2011)

I had a Facebook profile pic of Lord Byron for a while (family joke about me having a cold and dying of consumption)- I spent some time trolling BNP pages and all i got was a load of abuse about how bad my hair was in the photo on my profile. They didnt even seem to realise it was a painting let alone one of Byron.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Dec 17, 2011)

Brilliant documentary on Breivik, English Defence League, Alan Lake, Swedish Democrats (KentFuckwitEkeroth) and Swedish Defence League
http://svtplay.se/t/103535/uppdrag_granskning


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 18, 2011)

Serotonin said:


> I had a Facebook profile pic of Lord Byron for a while (family joke about me having a cold and dying of consumption)- I spent some time trolling BNP pages and all i got was a load of abuse about how bad my hair was in the photo on my profile. They didnt even seem to realise it was a painting let alone one of Byron.



I constantly get racist comments off people on Twitter assuming I'm black because of my name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Booth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delroy_Facey


----------



## Luther Blissett (Dec 18, 2011)

There's an EDL Christmas Carol Competition going on at SLATEDL on facebook: facebook.com/pages/Still-Laughing-At-The-English-Defence-League

Here's our submission:

O little town of Lu-u-ton,
 Where E D L began,
 Upon the call of CVF
 To every racist man;
 For in the dark streets, dealers
 With Asians were irate,
 And BNP had recently
 Swopped Jew for Muslim hate.

They spread their Fear through bloggers,
 All gathered on Facebook,
 They linked to sites and videos
 Themed with a racist hook.
 The Daily Star and Ji-i-had-Watch 
 Proclaimed the street-gang’s birth !
 And praises sang to Robinson,
 Goodbye to peace on earth !


----------



## Luther Blissett (Dec 21, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> There's an EDL Christmas Carol Competition going on at SLATEDL on facebook: facebook.com/pages/Still-Laughing-At-The-English-Defence-League
> 
> Here's our submission:
> 
> ...



The final two verses ...

How covertly, how covertly,
The funders' gifts are given,
As Lake imparts to fascist hearts
The horrors of his vision.
He threatened acts of vengeance
Against those he opposed.
Unhindered by a conscience ...
... 'Til Breivik shot Lake's "foes".

Innocents of Utoeya
Your blood is on their hands.
The Global CounterJi-had-is,
Spread hate in every land.
Spencer, Geller and Alan Lake
Protested in the wake,
But Temple, Mosque, Church, Synagogue
United against hate.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Dec 21, 2011)

Those last two lines could do with some more work ...


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 21, 2011)

to be honest, that's shit. as are most "political" christmas songs.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 21, 2011)

Sorry, like.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 21, 2011)

Ba humbug.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 21, 2011)




----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 22, 2011)

funny but slightly disturbing fingers! happy holidays to all who read the 'malatesta' stuff this year!


----------



## manny-p (Dec 22, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Those last two lines could do with some more work ...


Fuck sake...this thread


----------



## sunnysidedown (Dec 22, 2011)

Luther Blissett said:


> Those last two lads could do with a wank ...



fyp.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 22, 2011)

Yay


----------



## emanymton (Dec 22, 2011)

> He had a brain scan this morning. We don’t know the results yet.


Make your own joke.


----------



## Deareg (Dec 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2011/12/breaking-tommy-robinson-attacked-by.html


Hope to fuck he is pain.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 22, 2011)

Merry Christmas one and all


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 22, 2011)

For someone that's been done with "knuckle dusters" he doesn't seem very fucked over.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 22, 2011)

He looks like he's had a mild punch up.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 22, 2011)

who the fuck has a fan in the bedroom in Decemeber in fucking Luton?

just saying like


----------



## Deareg (Dec 22, 2011)

He thought his luck was in.

"He was out driving, when he saw a car similar to his wife’s, driven by a blond white girl. The other car flashed its lights so Tommy pulled over."


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> who the fuck has a fan in the bedroom in Decemeber in fucking Luton?
> 
> just saying like



Probably to abate a sweat-on from all the bugle.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 22, 2011)

NWI say it was football lads, Tommy has not reported it to the police, he has spoken to the Sun about it as you do.

Either way it rounds of a fucking fine day i have had with my one year old lad today


----------



## thriller (Dec 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



his head looks like it's been photoshopped into the room


----------



## Deareg (Dec 22, 2011)

thriller said:


> his head looks like it's been photoshopped into the room


It puts me in mind of Holly in Red Dwarf.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 22, 2011)

thriller said:


> his head looks like it's been photoshopped into the room



clearly a bedroom not hospital, look at the bed post and curtains.

fuck knows what went down, maybe we will never know but many a people will go to bed with a smile on their face tonight


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 22, 2011)

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/GmsKlJsqzZKTPpVr


----------



## SpineyNorman (Dec 22, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> NWI say it was football lads, Tommy has not reported it to the police, he has spoken to the Sun about it as you do.
> 
> Either way it rounds of a fucking fine day i have had with my one year old lad today



I think they may well be right, it would certainly explain why he didn't go to the police. Seems they've learned a lesson from Kev's run in with the shotgun wielding Muslamic.


----------



## gawkrodger (Dec 23, 2011)

May I just add

hahahahahahaha


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 23, 2011)

http://www.twitpic.com/7wv7r0

Pic: NWI explaination


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 23, 2011)

that looks like eyeliner to me.

also: lol


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Dec 23, 2011)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/the-tommy-robinson-beating-fiasco


----------



## manny-p (Dec 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


He had it coming. =) Made my festive period this.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 23, 2011)

Why is Sir Tommy trying to look like Marc Riley with a Poundland David Bowie make-up job?


----------



## Serotonin (Dec 23, 2011)

An old face from a few pages back, this made me laugh...

http://www.twitpic.com/7xbgrg


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 23, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Hope to fuck he is pain.


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2011/12/breaking-tommy-robinson-attacked-by.html


Does anyone know where I can buy the World's smallest voilin?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 23, 2011)

He's a grass. He gives information to the police about organized crime and football hooligans in exchange for leniency and tacit police tolerance of the EDL. He's got himself in a terrible mess. It's all gonna catch upto him in the end.


----------



## trampie (Dec 23, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Re. the Jewish "Divisions"


The EDL have Jewish Divisions ???, Melly i notice you write a lot about the EDL, do you read their blogs and websites etc all the time ?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 23, 2011)

trampie said:


> The EDL have Jewish Divisions ???, Melly i notice you write a lot about the EDL, do you read their blogs and websites etc all the time ?



Not so much their "official" site (I'm not paying to read that nonsense), but the EDL do their drum-banging all over the place (esp, unsurprisingly, on Facebook)

Re. the Jewish Division (which is a complete joke and anything but Jewish), a good precis/following of their antics can be found at our very own malatesta32's blog: http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> ht  tp:/..gates   of vienna... blogspot.com/2011/12/breaking-tom      my-robinson-attacked-by.html


do you want to break the link?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2011)

thriller said:


> his head looks like it's been photoshopped into the room


do you want to break the link? traditionally editor doesn't like links to far right sites


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 23, 2011)

Duno, you want to quote it?

Ninja edit i see.


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 23, 2011)

trampie said:


> The EDL have Jewish Divisions ???, Melly i notice you write a lot about the EDL, do you read their blogs and websites etc all the time ?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15777852
They've even got a Muslim Division consisting of ...er 1 member


----------



## thriller (Dec 23, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> do you want to break the link? traditionally editor doesn't like links to far right sites



done


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2011)

thriller said:


> done


cheers!


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2011)

manny-p said:


> He had it coming. =) Made my festive period this.


can you break the link too?


----------



## trampie (Dec 23, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> They've even got a Muslim Division consisting of ...er 1 member


----------



## trampie (Dec 23, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Not so much their "official" site (I'm not paying to read that nonsense), but the EDL do their drum-banging all over the place (esp, unsurprisingly, on Facebook)
> 
> Re. the Jewish Division (which is a complete joke and anything but Jewish), a good precis/following of their antics can be found at our very own malatesta32's blog


I just looked at what wiki had to say on them aparently anyone can join the EDL as long as they accept an English way of life .


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 23, 2011)

trampie said:


> I just looked at what wiki had to say on them aparently anyone can join the EDL as long as they accept an English way of life .



Morris dancing and egg and chips or something i read.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 23, 2011)

trampie said:


> I just looked at what wiki had to say on them aparently anyone can join the EDL as long as they accept an English way of life .



As long as you're "white", a clueless idiot, friends of the royal couple Stella and Charlie, fond of wearing knock-off Stone Island gear, a clueless idiot, oh yeah racist as well (and preferably a former member of the BNP/NF/Combat 18/Blood and Honour etc etc), into a bit of the old football-related overviolence, and so on.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> As long as you're "white", a clueless idiot, friends of the royal couple Stella and Charlie, fond of wearing knock-off Stone Island gear, a clueless idiot, oh yeah racist as well (and preferably a former member of the BNP/NF/Combat 18/Blood and Honour etc etc), into a bit of the old football-related overviolence, and so on.


i don't think you have to be a former member of the bnp etc to join in with the edl


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 23, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think you have to be a former member of the bnp etc to join in with the edl



Tis true - I was being a tad faecetious there.  Remember the fun and games of Yaxley-Lennon claiming never to have been in any political groups until that picture of him at a BNP meeting with Richard Edmonds turned up?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Tis true - I was being a tad faecetious there. Remember the fun and games of Yaxley-Lennon claiming never to have been in any political groups until that picture of him at a BNP meeting with Richard Edmonds turned up?


of course now he can get another picture with richard edmonds this time at an nf meeting


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 24, 2011)

and where was snowy on the day in question? he's bound to blame 'asians' tho isnt he whether it was or wasn't. there's a lot of people of all kinds who dont like him, mainly his ex-colleagues. for a 'hooligan' he's a bit crap at fighting isnt he? its not the 1st time someone's popped him. happy holidays!


----------



## manny-p (Dec 24, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> can you break the link too?


Broke the link for you. Merry xmas.


----------



## manny-p (Dec 24, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15777852
> They've even got a Muslim Division consisting of ...er 1 member


The guy has to be mental.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 24, 2011)

seasons greetings from the malatestas!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 24, 2011)

Just LOLOLOLOL


----------



## laptop (Dec 24, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Just LOLOLOLOL



WTF is that channel?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Dec 24, 2011)

laptop said:


> WTF is that channel?



It would appear to be a local Californian cable channel. And a particularly shit one if this is anything to go by.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 24, 2011)

Canadian - and reasonably mainstream it appears.


----------



## audiotech (Dec 24, 2011)

Ouelle surprise, the YouTube video above you've posted is hosted on the 'British Freedom' channel.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 24, 2011)

He's on Twatter

http://twitter.com/#!/michaelcoren


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 24, 2011)

The programme is known as the fox news of the north.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Dec 24, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Canadian - and reasonably mainstream it appears.



 at self. It was the .ca web address that made me think California too - why I thought California had its own web thingy will remain a mystery. So is it taken seriously or is the presenter thought of in the same way as Bill O'Reilly and the like?

E2A: The question isn't directed at butchersapron specifically - anyone from Canada on here?


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 24, 2011)

FYI: the wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_News_Network


----------



## thriller (Dec 25, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Just LOLOLOLOL




So we have gone from Tommo being beaten while on a car journey to Tommo now being beaten after a train journey?


----------



## audiotech (Dec 26, 2011)

The wounds on Yaxley-Lennon's bonce could conceivably be as a result of him head-butting that fellow EDL supporter in Blackburn earlier in the year and archived for later, malicious purposes?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Dec 27, 2011)

audiotech said:


> The wounds on Yaxley-Lennon's bonce could conceivably be as a result of him head-butting that fellow EDL supporter in Blackburn earlier in the year and archived for later, malicious purposes?



I don't think so - the swelling around his face convinces me he did get a kicking. I doubt it was delivered by Muslims though - the rival football hooligan story sounds much more convincing to me.


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 27, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Yay



poor make-up job to the right eye


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Dec 27, 2011)

Hurry up and vote. Voting closes at the end of the year. 

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/2011-edl-awards


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Dec 27, 2011)

Blimey - only just saw this. Winding up of Manchester AFA

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/12/490170.html


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Dec 27, 2011)

40 blackburn division appear to have got themselves arrested for Christmas http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/blackburn-division-get-nicked-at-christmas


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Dec 28, 2011)

Found this, all is not well at the Danish Defence League

















*André Eiby*

Since there are many DDL members that the last days have left DDL, I would like to hear what you in EDL thinks about that now 4 divisions in few days has leftout of DDL. All agree that Brian in particular, and Bo has pulled DDL into a negative spiral that just gets worse and worse to great despair of the undersigned. Have the last few days had contact with the announced division managers who puts himself entirely unsympathetic towards the anti-democratic leadership at the top of DDL, Top is today ONLY Bo and Brian, which was never DDL's ideology that the DDL to be controlled by only 2 people , that I forecast several months ago that this would be DDL's death if not members did something about it. Today, the 5th. Division announced that they will no longer be a part of the DDL and calls for an alternative to this, or bruised, contact the EDL and explain to them how things are in DDL. That we are now many will do, and so we hope members' behalf that the future is still in the DDL, just with a new democratic leadership, ie. to brian BE away from DDL, he has nothing good done since the day I said good for him to join the DDL. Therefore, we, the DDL-members that haved left DDL in frustration over only 2 persons kontrol of DDL, the strict rules that only 2 persons agree in. We, the members, want EDL to get invovled in this matter, sill were many who respect and look up to EDL, but we cannot accept that 5 divisions in only few days has left DDL, that is about 200 members who want´s to die for there country and for DDL, so something has to be done. If not EDL can fix Brian and Bo´s head in the right directions, on behalf of 5 Divisionsleaders, we want´s to make a new leadership, Brian and Bo is only thinking about themselves making picture of themselves and the new project like BlogTalk are only for those to. André Eiby X-member, divisionsleader and spokesman for the former DDL.


​
​


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Dec 28, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Blimey - only just saw this. Winding up of Manchester AFA
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/12/490170.html



Yes, that all seems rather odd, doesn't it?  It's not like that the ability of future EDL/BNP type organisations to appear has been wiped out, has it?


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 28, 2011)

Gary Fiennes-H said:


> Found this, all is not well at the Danish Defence League
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Do any of these copy cat EDL groups such as the Danish DL and the American DL actually exist other than on Facebook and the internet?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 28, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Blimey - only just saw this. Winding up of Manchester AFA
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/12/490170.html



The comments on this are fucking ridiculous.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 28, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Blimey - only just saw this. Winding up of Manchester AFA
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/12/490170.html



The comments on this are fucking ridiculous.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 28, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Hurry up and vote. Voting closes at the end of the year.
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/2011-edl-awards


crivvens, when you read the EDL's blunders in list form it really is embarassing!

http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Nigel (Dec 28, 2011)

Delroy Booth said:


> The comments on this are fucking ridiculous.



what wasthe make up of MAFA contemporarily?
Is the reason to spend more time in other areas of political work?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 28, 2011)

Ask Red Storm, he'd be better answering your first question than me.

I think the reasons they gave for disbanding are sincere. i think MAFA came into existence in response to two things from around 2009. Nick Griffin's North-West Euro-election campaign and a particularly aggressive local BNP and the rise of the EDL, who out of nowhere started putting lots of people onto the street. The existing anti-fascist organisations (UAF, Hope Not Hate) were more geared towards countering the BNP electorally, and seemed hopeless at dealing with the EDL, so something had to come into existence to mobilise people in a different direction. I don't think the situation is like that anymore to be honest, so I understand why they're doing it.


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 28, 2011)

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/edl_leader_in_lay_by_attack_1_3371382

Police launch investigation into Tommy Robinsons attack.


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 28, 2011)

Nigel said:


> what was the make up of MAFA contemporarily?



Mix of reds (Marxists, ex-SWP, ex-SP, other Trots, Labour types, etc) and anarchists. Very broad spectrum.


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Dec 28, 2011)

Waxey has got himself in the local rag, feel free to leave him a get well message

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/edl_leader_in_lay_by_attack_1_3371382


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 28, 2011)

you couldnt make it up......


----------



## Deareg (Dec 28, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> you couldnt make it up......


I think he just did.


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Dec 29, 2011)




----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 29, 2011)

amusing comments!
http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/edl_leader_in_lay_by_attack_1_3371382
questions remain. why go to the press before the cops? why are infidels still  claiming it was Men In Gear (worst firm name ever) from weeks ago? why has tommy been so reticent?


----------



## laptop (Dec 29, 2011)

Odds on at least one of the five arrested over the murder of Anuj Bidve being EDL-connected?

Much better than evens, I think.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 29, 2011)

Perhaps it's time to have a new thread, because this one has got messy in parts. If a thread's to be useful to people as a resource then it has to be kept on-topic, and to have links commented on rather than posted up with little more than a few words to explain / introduce it.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 29, 2011)

yeah


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 29, 2011)

New thread: EDL Watch 2012 http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/edl-watch-2012.286472/


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 30, 2011)

laptop said:


> Odds on at least one of the five arrested over the murder of Anuj Bidve being EDL-connected?
> 
> Much better than evens, I think.



The odds on that would be very high. I highly doubt the kids who have done it were connected to the EDL.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 30, 2011)

0%


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 30, 2011)

laptop said:


> Odds on at least one of the five arrested over the murder of Anuj Bidve being EDL-connected?
> 
> Much better than evens, I think.


 
more likely to have been involved in he riots


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 30, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> more likely to have been involved in he riots


New thread: EDL Watch 2012 http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/edl-watch-2012.286472/


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 30, 2011)

Its still 2011


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 30, 2011)

I <3 this one tho


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 30, 2011)

Why do we need another thread?


----------



## manny-p (Dec 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> 0%


How can you possibly know this?


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 30, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> Why do we need another thread?



Too look cool and stuff?


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 30, 2011)

Right i just had an idea, what if we all have our own EDL thread? like one each? that way people can read what they want and not have to put up with stuff they dont like?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Dec 30, 2011)

Cracking idea Bob.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 31, 2011)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Right i just had an idea, what if we all have our own EDL thread? like one each? that way people can read what they want and not have to put up with stuff they dont like?



It is irritating though when people slap up links without meaningful comment or a summary. Especially when browsing with a phone. It's also in the FAQ not to do it although isn't really stamped on unless it's an op sans content.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 31, 2011)

and a new thread will stop that?


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 31, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Blimey - only just saw this. Winding up of Manchester AFA
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/12/490170.html



The statement is absolutely correct in assessing the physical theat of the far right my view .The conclusion that there is no need for AFA mark 2 has been argued on here for some years.

The comments on Indymedia are just barmy and you have to wonder just who is behind some of the posts.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Dec 31, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> The statement is absolutely correct in assessing the physical theat of the far right my view .The conclusion that there is no need for AFA mark 2 has been argued on here for some years.
> 
> The comments on Indymedia are just barmy and you have to wonder just who is behind some of the posts.



i think we know whose behind most of them - the paens of praise to a certain individual as 'stand-up' - should give everyone a fair idea.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 2, 2012)

joer, butchers, granted that AFA mark 2 (actually mark 3) is not really a requirement, but what about when the EDL come to town? do we rely on informal antifascism knowing that local activists usually turn up? also, with the Hope Not Hate split from uncle Gerry, what do you think of Lowles more community focussed ideas?


----------



## LLETSA (Jan 2, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> more likely to have been involved in he riots


 
Much more likely.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 2, 2012)

*Tommy Robinson's New Year Message 2012*


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 2, 2012)

New gear message?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

Bit late now but i've been composing some anti-fash "christmas songs" with someone off here. it may be a bad idea to post them up at this point tho


----------



## manny-p (Jan 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *Tommy Robinson's New Year Message 2012*



He mentions a soon to be screened despatches programme about Bury Park? Anymore info on that?


----------



## thriller (Jan 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *Tommy Robinson's New Year Message 2012*




LOL. 04:15 he says bet they've never even punched a Muslim. 
For a man who wants to form a political party he is a rather foul mouthd mother fucker. Imagine him on Question Time losing his temper.


----------



## thriller (Jan 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Bit late now but i've been composing some anti-fash "christmas songs" with someone off here. it may be a bad idea to post them up at this point tho



do it.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

i feel a bit bad having slagged off someone festive efforts earlier on here, but here goes:

"Oh the nazis outisde are frightful, But afa's class analysis is so delightful, they've got no place to go, let it snow let it snow let it snow"
"When we finally got rid of the reich, oh the fash were left out in the cold, and whenever they got in a fight, the looks on their faces was gold!"

that's the er ... "best" one I did  the others were called things like "walking in a cable street wonderland"


----------



## manny-p (Jan 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i feel a bit bad having slagged off someone festive efforts earlier on here, but here goes:
> 
> "Oh the nazis outisde are frightful, But afa's class analysis is so delightful, they've got no place to go, let it snow let it snow let it snow"
> "When we finally got rid of the reich, oh the fash were left out in the cold, and whenever they got in a fight, the looks on their faces was gold!"
> ...


Was you on acid?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

i havent got that excuse  i'll let the other person post up their lyrics!


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

ah fuck it i'll post another one i made up (this is even more embarrassingly bad)

"Oh little road of cable street, how still we see you lie, But 75 years ago the reds were on a high. How silently, how silently, mosley made his retreat, the power of the working class led him to his defeat"


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Bit late now but i've been composing some anti-fash "christmas songs" with someone off here. it may be a bad idea to post them up at this point tho



Here is Salford BNP's xmas carol which they posted on their Red, White and Blue Salford website but later pulled down:



> A Salford Christmas Carol
> 
> Councillor Wenceslas looked out
> Not knowing it was the Feast of Stephen.
> ...



Just noticed that it's still on the BNP website: http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national...ouncil-“do-just-enough-con-voters-back-sleep”


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm saying this because I consider you a friend frogwoman - please don't write any more songs


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

The poster I was making them up with had a rather good one of Good King Wenceslas


----------



## Deareg (Jan 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> The poster I was making them up with had a rather good one of Good King Wenceslas


Name and shame Froggie, why should you take all the blame?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

i've told him to have a look at this thread


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 2, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm saying this because I consider you a friend frogwoman - please don't write any more songs



frogs, no offence kiddo but check this:
http://www.masterwriter.com/overview.html


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

"He see's you when you goose-step, he knows you're the master race, and if you're doing nazi shit then he'll punch you in the face - you better not Heil, you better not try, if you hate other ethnicities, your gonna cry, Santi-fash is coming to town"

that gotta be the worst one, and they were all pretty cringeworthy lol.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> ah fuck it i'll post another one i made up (this is even more embarrassingly bad)
> 
> "Oh little road of cable street, how still we see you lie, But 75 years ago the reds were on a high. How silently, how silently, mosley made his retreat, the power of the working class led him to his defeat"



Billy Bragg, eat your heart out.


----------



## thriller (Jan 2, 2012)

please stop. now.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 2, 2012)

Anyway, shouldn't we be on the 2012 thread already?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

yep i will  i feel pretty bad at criticising luther's festive efforts now - sorry, if your reading this!


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jan 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i havent got that excuse  i'll let the other person post up their lyrics!



(Puts down copy of "Shock Xpress Bumper Annual of 70's Italian Trash Films")

Oo-er...my ears are burning.....must...not....write....Xmas....carols....can't...help....myself:

"Fash king Nick Nickelarse looked out
On the feat of EU
Bacon there lay all about
Normal folks went phee-ew!"

(I thank you.  No, really).


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

that was the one


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> ah fuck it i'll post another one i made up (this is even more embarrassingly bad)
> 
> "Oh little road of cable street, how still we see you lie, But 75 years ago the reds were on a high. How silently, how silently, mosley made his retreat, the power of the working class led him to his defeat"



actually frogs thats not bad! spent all day writing about mosley etc today. the terry thomas of fascism surely?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

defo lol, i cant take it seriously without thinking of Wooster and Jeeves' "The Blackshorts"


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 2, 2012)

lol here's the other verse of "Little town of bethlehem"quite soppy and this is the last one. I Promise

"Oh little group of nazis, how much we see you lie, and if we let the fash scum win, we would of course all die, that's why we support afa and the class struggle to, so there will be more christmases for me and for you"


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 2, 2012)

I thought Nazis support Christianity though, despite Jesus being a Jew?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jan 2, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> lol here's the other verse of "Little town of bethlehem"quite soppy and this is the last one. I Promise
> 
> "Oh little group of nazis, how much we see you lie, and if we let the fash scum win, we would of course all die, that's why we support afa and the class struggle to, so there will be more christmases for me and for you"



And one more from me:

"Frosty the Snowman/Was a very happy anti-fash soul/He enjoys the Yuletide season/And hating John Tyndall"


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 2, 2012)

there's some serious metric abuse going on here. looks like someones gonna get points on their poetic licences (etc ... ad nauseum)


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jan 2, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> there's some serious metric abuse going on here. looks like someones gonna get points on their poetic licences (etc ... ad nauseum)



Are we being upstairs to bed early with no tea, Dad?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 2, 2012)

don't make me come up there! right i'm off to finish joe jacobs biog. cracking read!


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jan 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I thought Nazis support Christianity though, despite Jesus being a Jew?



Nah, they're all about Odin these days.  Just ask Douglas Pearce.


----------



## Corax (Jan 2, 2012)

New thread? Bloody splitters. Eternal curse of the left etc etc....


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 3, 2012)

another day more lies....



*Michael Coren Interviews Tommy Robinson - The Islamists Attack! *


----------



## Corax (Jan 3, 2012)

_All-terr-cay-shun_ Tommy.  Say it with me slowly now.


----------



## Corax (Jan 3, 2012)

It's always interesting to watch Yaxley-Lennon speaking with this in mind...


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 3, 2012)

i've still got those carols stuck in my head


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 3, 2012)

The thing in that video bob posted about land for the mosque/affordable housing in Luton - anyone know if that's true? Bit of a coup for the EDL if it is - while the demos tend to just piss people off, this may get them a fair bit of support.


----------



## manny-p (Jan 5, 2012)

Heard some blood and honour addresses got hacked.....

http://pastebin.com/g6e8yjqh

albeit some of these addresses are probly old. P.S- I know the EDL are not B&H.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> The thing in that video bob posted about land for the mosque/affordable housing in Luton - anyone know if that's true? Bit of a coup for the EDL if it is - while the demos tend to just piss people off, this may get them a fair bit of support.



There's a grain of truth to it according to this:



> A GROUP of Shia Muslims have denied rumours they plan to create a ‘super-mosque’ in High Town, saying the facility will be a community centre.
> Leaflets have been distributed to homes in High Town saying the Old Drill Hall in Old Bedford Road will become a mosque, and the English Defence League has accused Luton Borough Council of selling off land that was intended for affordable housing.
> But the Masjid-e-Ali group, which currently meets at premises in Moor Street, says that if it is successful in purchasing the 8,500 sq ft building, which has 100 parking spaces, it will be open to all members of the community.
> They say it will have prayer facilities, but will not be a mosque.
> ...


----------



## sunny jim (Jan 5, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Heard some blood and honour addresses got hacked.....
> 
> http://pastebin.com/g6e8yjqh
> 
> albeit some of these addresses are probly old. P.S- I know the EDL are not B&H.


 
Some of them are. I havent had a thorough look at the list but Wayne Baldwin is a prominent member of the EDL and he's on the B&H list. I bet theres loads more too


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 5, 2012)

Hope not hate reporting CxF coming to Manchester on the 21st. On my phone so can't link if someone would oblige


----------



## Deareg (Jan 5, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Hope not hate reporting CxF coming to Manchester on the 21st. On my phone so can't link if someone would oblige


 
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 5, 2012)

sunny jim said:


> Some of them are. I havent had a thorough look at the list but Wayne Baldwin is a prominent member of the EDL and he's on the B&H list. I bet theres loads more too


yup theres a heap of active fash on that list.. #anon are still digging


----------



## sunny jim (Jan 5, 2012)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1521/paramilitaries-plan-secret-manchester-meeting


----------



## thriller (Jan 5, 2012)

hopenothate. really dont like names like these. Similar to the Rainbow Coalition.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 5, 2012)

AKA pseudonym said:


> yup theres a heap of active fash on that list.. #anon are still digging



I did see an anon Video the other day but was not sure if it was real or not.


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 5, 2012)

"Combined Ex-Forces"? Going by the photos they look like they were probably in the Army Catering Corps.

I suppose the logical step for any would-be-insurgent underground guerilla army....is to get some T-Shirts printed and call a meeting in a Manchester pub.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 5, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I did see an anon Video the other day but was not sure if it was real or not.


as you know #anon is a very loose collective... some of the UK crew allegedly are planning a few more investigations.....


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jan 5, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i've still got those carols stuck in my head



Oh Gawd...I just remembered one we used to sing at school (first year Art class, as it happens)...and no, I'm not reciting that here!


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Jan 5, 2012)

Deareg said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/



Some of that article is bollocks about 11/11. About 6 CxF turned up (not with the main EDL group who got lifted). They were walking around and about, got stopped by the police and let go. No CxF got arrested or swooped upon.

On another note, I have an email from Mr Rafferty asking if me or a representative from EDL News would like to attend and he promised we would have his full protection and he is old school about stuff like that.

make of that what you will but he does appear to have invited reps from a range of antifa groups.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 6, 2012)

.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 6, 2012)

new malatesta piece!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 6, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16424987

*'Anonymous' targets German far-right with Nazi-leaks.net*


----------



## thriller (Jan 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> new malatesta piece!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/



liking the blog.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2012)

from the RVF bulletin:
 "The groups who have joined the RVF unity call are the NF, Welsh Borders, VF, 28 Walloon, Aryan Nations, pirate 28, Knights Templar Commandery and White Riders."
isnt paul ray one of the knights templars?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2012)

rather amusing comments on the EDL forum thread 'tommy's financial difficulties. can we help?'
'each member can donate £10 or £1 a month, every year' !!!!
and also
'True worrier that man, a true worrier.'


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

Who the fuck are 'welsh borders'?


----------



## fishfinger (Jan 7, 2012)

A Welsh Border earlier


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

Google only throws up this thread, loads of mirrors of the RVF statement, and not that surprisingly lots of stuff about dogs and the errrr welsh border region


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2012)

28 Walloon? who invited the belgians?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

And do Aryan Nations exist in the UK or Europe? I thought they were solely a NA outfit


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 7, 2012)

Proper Tidy said:


> And do Aryan Nations exist in the UK or Europe? I thought they were solely a NA outfit



"Exist in the UK or Europe" is the phrase here. I think in fascist/EDL terms you have to bear in mind that 4 blokes with a flag = 'A Division' (where in military terms it's usually considered to be between 10,000 and 20,000 men).

So in this sense I wouldn't be surprised that a wee fella using his mum's laptop becomes "a branch" of the Aryan Nations, Knights Templar or even The Grand Army of the Duchy of Warsaw.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from the RVF bulletin:
> "The groups who have joined the RVF unity call are the NF, Welsh Borders, VF, 28 Walloon, Aryan Nations, *pirate 28*, Knights Templar Commandery and White Riders."
> isnt paul ray one of the knights templars?



If I was going to join an N/S organisation it would definitely be Pirate 28. Are Somali pirates or Blackbeard types? Either way its the best fash organisation name I've heard to date.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2012)

I've googled and all I get for 28 walloon is an ss/werchmacht connection. Odd.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 7, 2012)

Pirate 28 is now simply Pirate .

For the newsletter see: http://www.rvf[REMOVE ME FOR LINK]online.co.uk/articlefiles2/rvfworldwidenewsletterdec.htm


----------



## BigTom (Jan 7, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Pirate 28 is now simply Pirate .
> 
> For the newsletter see: http://www.rvf[REMOVE ME FOR LINK]online.co.uk/articlefiles2/rvfworldwidenewsletterdec.htm



That's still a direct link - you need to break the url in the pop-up box to remove the link, or just hit the broken chain icon to remove the hyperlink completely


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

Why 28? Brian Hitler?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2012)

october 28 1922, fascists take power in italy- if my google fu is correct


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

Oh.

Always thought the White Nation types favoured the German variety over the Italians.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2012)

you know how it is with the language of signs and symbols. They cross fertilize


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 7, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> october 28 1922, fascists take power in italy- if my google fu is correct



Wrong I think. If it follows 88 (HH: Heil Hitler)  and 18 (AH: Adolf Hitler) it means BH (Blood and Honour)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2012)

ah, I see. Fascist iconography isn't something I'm particularly up on lol


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

Shit I actually knew that


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2012)

* Apparently the SDL have threatened to attack the Palestinian campaign stall in Glasgow.*



> SDL about 150 are kettled on Paisley Rd West. All quiet here on Buchanan St. Police van is in front of the Palestine human rights stall. Anti fash here too. Looks like another damp squib for SDL. Losers.


----------



## audiotech (Jan 7, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Wrong I think. If it follows 88 (HH: Heil Hitler) and 18 (AH: Adolf Hitler) it means BH (Blood and Honour)



I'll take it to mean 'Bone Head' for the joshing I get from it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2012)

any links to that bobster?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2012)

BH: bad haircuts? beyond help?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> any links to that bobster?



*Exposing racism and intolerance online (EDL) XXXI*


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jan 7, 2012)

About 150 SDL are currently kettled on Paisley Rd West, Glasgow after a failed assault on a pro-Palestine stall ..

Just got this text...


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jan 7, 2012)

according to a guy on twitter
Reports that 150 #SDL protesters being #kettled by police outside a #rangers pub on Paisley Road West


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2012)

yeah?


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jan 7, 2012)

aye they managed a failed attack on a stall, bravo


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2012)

Safe


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/Kingsmill/posts/247292762006727



> *I would just like to take the oppertunity to thank you and your company for removing my democratic right to a choice of what i eat, i would also like an explanaition as to why a British company, based in Maidenhead have taken the decision to use Halal products in your products, i would finally like to remind you that in order for food to be passed as halal animals are killed in a barbaric manner, such barbaric cruelty is more fitting to the 15th century. I think the decision to go Halal is a poor one and i certainly will in future boycott your products and advise my customers and friends to do the same. In my opinion you are disgusting and vile, my forefathers fought two world wars to give me a freedom of speech and you have taken the option to remove my freedom of choice, i hope you can live with yourselves and furthermore i consider bankrupcy too good for you, from " A Disgruntled Englishman"!*


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

Are you having pizza tonight bob?

Safe.


----------



## audiotech (Jan 7, 2012)

How about beef stew? Watch out for the bolt that's been rammed through it's head, or perhaps chicken kiev, whose contents have lived a short, miserable life, packed tightly in poultry farms, then taken to be hung from hooks whilst still alive, stunned with an electric shock, then to have their throat cut. I'll leave the subject of veal and lobsters being boiled alive to another time.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2012)

Nah Chicken and Chorizo chilli pasta


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2012)




----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

Yeah?

Yeah.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2012)

4realz


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jan 7, 2012)

Safe as fuck


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 7, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> * Apparently the SDL have threatened to attack the Palestinian campaign stall in Glasgow.*



They were very well kettled than as we had a spotter in the pub they were alleged to be in and nowt there and plod left the area after finding nothing. There were a few spotted in town but only in ones and twos.


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Jan 8, 2012)

Shower of sham's


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 8, 2012)

audiotech said:


> How about beef stew? Watch out for the bolt that's been rammed through it's head, or perhaps chicken kiev, whose contents have lived a short, miserable life, packed tightly in poultry farms, then taken to be hung from hooks whilst still alive, stunned with an electric shock, then to have their throat cut. I'll leave the subject of veal and lobsters being boiled alive to another time.



Pink veal is ok though?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 8, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/Kingsmill/posts/247292762006727



That is pretty fucking funny to be fair


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 9, 2012)

Seen pictures of the EDL at occupy liverpool. Think they were taken two hours ago. It's on Still Laughing at the English Defence League facebook.


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 9, 2012)

Jesus. They all look about 14 years old.

A couple of pensioners could have run them.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 9, 2012)

Next infidels demo on the 4th Feb is in Greater Manc - http://www.facebook.com/events/250386851692225/


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 9, 2012)

Next EDL demo:


----------



## Corax (Jan 9, 2012)

fishfinger said:


> A Welsh Border earlier



Closely related to this:






A border colliery.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 12, 2012)

The EDL obsessed may be interested in keeping an eye on the Daily Star editors evidence to the Leveson inquiry today currently being questioned about the "EDL to become Political Party" headline from 11 months ago.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 12, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=234223236654424

yeah?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 13, 2012)

Someone just posted this on facebook - EDL promo video uses Skrewdriver song as a backing track. Not entirely sure what it's supposed to prove but I thought I'd post it here anyway.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 13, 2012)

well this new promo video tells us a bit about the real EDL.


----------



## elfman (Jan 13, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> well this new promo video tells us a bit about the real EDL.



What's that got to do with Islamic extremism?


----------



## elfman (Jan 13, 2012)

grrr... stupid internet connection causing a double post


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 13, 2012)

elfman said:


> What's that got to do with Islamic extremism?



Nothing, it's more about how come they can't beat blacks up anymore or something?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2012)

Youth divison....



anyway shit turn out in Barking today by all accounts... 100 or so


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 14, 2012)

Stoke looks proper poor. About 15 people outside a Weatherspoons.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Laur...6006277586&type=1&theater&notif_t=photo_reply


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 14, 2012)

Still Laughing is reporting 150 at Barking


----------



## Fingers (Jan 14, 2012)

There is more to the Stoke story, EDL News owned the entire Division

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fend...n-trent-division-get-banned-from-wetherspoons


----------



## john x (Jan 14, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Stoke looks proper poor. About 15 people outside a Weatherspoons.



Yeah! In 2010! 

And Barking was 80-90 people with 5 arrests. Given how much natural support they have in the area they should be really worried about that turnout. Like Brum they aren't even making much of an effort to inflate the figures. (they claim 150).

I'd say most EDL supporters are seriously demoralised. The big test will be the Luton demo. They will pull out all the stops for that one and need to get at least 1500 to claim anything other than a humiliation.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2012)

They made it down to Whitechaple to kick off.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 14, 2012)

They've collapsed as quickly as the arose.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 14, 2012)

tweets about a tesco being smashed up and them being run out by locals


----------



## laptop (Jan 14, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They made it down to Whitechapel to kick off.



Was that the 20 or fewer kettled against a shopfront by 20 police in that video?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jan 14, 2012)

Barking Demo Report

report from todays EDL demo... via hope not hate...


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2012)

seen some more pics on Twitter, looks like some people got hurt badly


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 14, 2012)

this thread has got pretty surreal tbh.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16563365

*Man injured in London EDL disturbance*


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 14, 2012)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> this thread has got pretty surreal tbh.



It's like fringe politics meets 24 hour rolling news written by those who have a vested interest in not promoting their subject yet feel an incessant compulsion to do so.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2012)

yeah


----------



## manny-p (Jan 14, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> seen some more pics on Twitter, looks like some people got hurt badly


Put a pic up here?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 14, 2012)

http://lockerz.com/s/174499502


----------



## manny-p (Jan 14, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://lockerz.com/s/174499502


Cheers cudnt find that elsewhere.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 14, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://lockerz.com/s/174499502


so some edl nutjob got battered?


----------



## manny-p (Jan 14, 2012)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> so some edl nutjob got battered?


Let me guess they picketed friday prayers?


----------



## OneStrike (Jan 14, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Let me guess they picketed friday prayers?



Eh?


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Jan 14, 2012)

The guy who got carted off was Eddie Stampton apparently.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 14, 2012)

@EverythingEDL has a pic of him however the person is being reported as Eddie Stevens (on Still Laughing) and Eddie Stamton and Eddie Stanton by @EverythingEDL.

The picture shows his Neo-nazi sympathies, to a certain extent.


----------



## john x (Jan 14, 2012)

Gary Fiennes-H said:


> The guy who got carted off was Eddie Stampton apparently.


Can't be.

Eddie Stampton is a well-known Nazi and the EDL have slung out all the nazis!

john x


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 14, 2012)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> so some edl nutjob got battered?



Knock some sense into the cunt.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 14, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Knock some sense into the cunt.


i hear it's part of michael gove's new strategy for education, the old ways are rubbish.

knocking for england


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 15, 2012)

so piss poor turnout in barking then off to whitechapel where they are battered and arrested. very poor do. wankers.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 15, 2012)

report on barking. mr tommy turned up and wasnt told off for breaking his bail conditions. some plod even chatted to him! see pix.
http://www.demotix.com/news/1003054/edl-march-barking


----------



## john x (Jan 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> report on barking. mr tommy turned up and wasnt told off for breaking his bail conditions. some plod even chatted to him! see pix.
> http://www.demotix.com/news/1003054/edl-march-barking


What bail conditions?

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 15, 2012)

yeah, the conditions were over the headbutt case. now over. apologies!


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 15, 2012)

http://www.twitpic.com/87g8gs/full

some more info on the guys who went to whitechaple


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 15, 2012)

If that was a "victory" for the EDL, fuck knows what a defeat must look like.

Just 15 of them turning up outside a mosque, one of them being taken to hospital and the rest all getting pigged.

On the latter note it's probably the cops that saved them in the end.

These people really are unbelievably stupid.


----------



## Deareg (Jan 15, 2012)

Not getting beaten up was always a moral victory for the right.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 15, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> If that was a "victory" for the EDL, fuck knows what a defeat must look like. Just 15 of them turning up outside a mosque, one of them being taken to hospital and the rest all getting pigged.On the latter note it's probably the cops that saved them in the end. These people really are unbelievably stupid.



the turnout was about 100 and they were outnumbered by plod. the whitechapel incident shows that they havent learnt from the last time they visited in summer 2010 and got run out of town. eejits. the infidel factionalism and alignment with the fluffies has affected them. luton next will show how many are left.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 15, 2012)

EDL endearing themselves to the locals. eejits.
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-news-names-instigator-of-east-london-violence


----------



## john x (Jan 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> luton next will show how many are left.



I thought Leicester on Feb 4th. was the next demo? 

john x


----------



## audiotech (Jan 15, 2012)




----------



## manny-p (Jan 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the turnout was about 100 and they were outnumbered by plod. the whitechapel incident shows that they havent learnt from the last time they visited in summer 2010 and got run out of town. eejits. the infidel factionalism and alignment with the fluffies has affected them. luton next will show how many are left.


'Paki bashing' ain't as easy as it once was for these cunts. Hopefully after getting battered once more they stay clear.


----------



## john x (Jan 15, 2012)

audiotech said:


>




As the bloke in the video said "They can't come into Tower Hamlets. If they do they either go away in a police wagon or in an ambulance".

They really do need to get over this obsession with Tower Hamlets and the East London Mosque.

john x


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 15, 2012)

They ought to be thankful that plod are at hand to prevent them from getting a proper hiding in Tower Hamlets.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Jan 16, 2012)

Casuals United announce plan to "peacefully demo" Leeds Anti-fascist Film Festival in protest of anti-EDL phone-calls to Wetherspoons in Stoke which resulted in Stoke EDL not being able to meet there on 14th Jan 2012. http://twitpic.com/87t2fz


----------



## Fingers (Jan 16, 2012)

This is the account of how things went tits up for Stoke Division.

http://edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/edl-stoke-on-trent-division-get-banned-from-wetherspoons

They could not take it on the chin so they are goign to send a couple of drunk bald blokes to hang around outside. Not the wisest move considering there will be a large contingent of Antifa there.

In other news, leadership issued a statement cahstising the casuals for getting in a ruck and having their arse kicked in Whitechapel. This did not go down too well with the casuals and quite a few members posted that it was their right to go 'paki bashing' if they wanted to so the thread was pulled due to threats and massive racism.

I can smell an EDL vs Casuals split.


----------



## manny-p (Jan 16, 2012)

john x said:


> As the bloke in the video said "They can't come into Tower Hamlets. If they do they either go away in a police wagon or in an ambulance".
> 
> They really do need to get over this obsession with Tower Hamlets and the East London Mosque.
> 
> john x


Lol the bloke in the video is a member of the _*All London Anarchist Revolutionary Movement*_ (_*ALARM*_).


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2012)

usual denial then self pitying whinge from 'leadership' on faceplant:

"Whitechapel Violence Unacceptable (Whoever Started It)
We have learned from the press that a group of men, including alleged members of the English Defence League, were on Saturday involved in a confrontation with a group of Muslim men not far from the East London Mosque, as a result of which one man was hospitalised.
The English Defence League condemns both the violence and any act of provocati...on that may have led to it. Any EDL supporters who went to Whitechapel went on their own initiative and without the consent of the EDL and its leadership.
Whilst the EDL opposes radical Islam, it does not seek to promote violence or hatred between Muslims and non-Muslims. We do not support the actions of anyone who visited the East London Mosque, whatever their motives. By their actions they spoiled the good work at Barking where the English Defence League had an official protest.
However, it is a sad indictment that people cannot go to parts of the capital without the fear of being attacked. The violence is unacceptable, whoever started it."

what utter bollocks.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2012)

john x said:


> I thought Leicester on Feb 4th. was the next demo?
> 
> john x



apologies for misinformation yesterday. malatesta malfunction.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2012)

i love jeffrey 'stabber' marsh's self-justifications on his silly little website. theres also this:

'sure we get high spirited, sure there are idiots who tag along with us, but at the end of the day (apart from the sun going down) if civil war ever DID break out, who would the British public be shouting for? Yes you guessed it, the E.D.L.!!!!!'

who you gonna call?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 16, 2012)

some fat stabby cunt?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2012)

says it all really!
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/01/491171.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2012)

shitloads of plod and a few pissed up fat blokes being humiliated.
http://www.demotix.com/news/1003414/edl-confronted-whitechapel-1-hurt-london


----------



## Fingers (Jan 16, 2012)

EDL version of events brought to you by Alan Furniss



> as iv said all along...and must quote this was not planned...​​hello misty...i was the one that grabbe the knife from the kitchen from the pub* it was a very dangerouse situ*...we done nothing wrong all this about chanting allah is a peodo is rubbish and just an excuse and fake justification....guramit it wont be documented like it never does but about 10-20 of us went for a pint oppisite the east london mosque *ok we knew our pressence wasz provokative* but as we say this is england i will not be told i cant go anywhere by noone next thing you know 20 muslim youth dragged some fella with us into the road jumping on his head kicking his head like it was a football and beat the shit out of him while we were ordering drinks i went running out there they left him in the road i dragged him unconscious to the safety of the pub door ish when i looked up there was around 2-300-400 muzzy youth to the right of the pub another couple hundred to the left and all the mosque piling out onto the street* it was a very tricky situation* around 80 old bill turned up with one ambulance trying to calm a 1000 muslims against 10 maybe 15 of us i was trying to wake the lad up he was in bad form drifting in and out face smashed to bits then missiles were being thrown bottles stones eggs ets...*halal eggs i may add lol.*..the crowd on my right start breaking bottles ready to attack us so i left the lad with the paramedic ran into the pub made all there customers sit to the back of the boozer in case the windows got caved in* threw the chef on the floor* and grabbed all the knifes i could see...1 of them lol and i stayed with the lad on the floor ready to let any cunt have it if they were gonna attack *thankfully...we all got nicked and taken to the train stations before we all got killed*...​



http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-news-names-instigator-of-east-london-violence


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 16, 2012)

Needs more Dragons and shit.....


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2012)

Got to say, even as putting a marker down this was poor. If this was supposed show the rest of the edl whose got bottle and and form a group to rally around then i think its going to do the opposite and make the inexperienced youtube hoolies who've never been in proper bother melt away.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2012)

very much so, i believe that the contemporary youth parlance is 'owned!' humilated yet again.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2012)

latest 'malatesta'
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Got to say, even as putting a marker down this was poor. If this was supposed show the rest of the edl whose got bottle and and form a group to rally around then i think its going to do the opposite and make the inexperienced youtube hoolies who've never been in proper bother melt away.



slow news day Butchers?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2012)

Fingers drumming on the table -just waiting for my lift to turn up.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 16, 2012)

I was reduced to looking at Kevin Quinns ebay page yesterday


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 16, 2012)

Luther Blissett said:


> Casuals United announce plan to "peacefully demo" Leeds Anti-fascist Film Festival in protest of anti-EDL phone-calls to Wetherspoons in Stoke which resulted in Stoke EDL not being able to meet there on 14th Jan 2012. http://twitpic.com/87t2fz



A dozen. Tops. With a photo of them looking leary up on Facebook sold as a great victory for the cause.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 16, 2012)

Looking at the EDL post quoted above (Alan Furniss) can I ask one more time: What the fuck is all the bad spelling, grammar and total lack of punctuation about with these people?


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## Fingers (Jan 16, 2012)

It appears to have all gone to shit in rochdale as well

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/edl-rochdale-division-in-halal-protest-flop


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## manny-p (Jan 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What the fuck is all the bad spelling, grammar and total lack of punctuation about with these people?


I don't think you should give two fucks about their grammar. Its their politics which are the concern here.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 17, 2012)

manny-p said:


> I don't think you should give two fucks about their grammar. Its their politics which are the concern here.



Of course their politics stink. But if I was advancing English patriotism I'd be sure to use the beautiful language of the same land to the best of my ability, and to improve upon that use if it was wanting. We are talking here about an absolutely exceptional degree of shit use here, below what would reasonably be acceptable at the start of secondary school. I think it serves a few purposes to deconstruct their dire linguistic skills. And it's piss funny to boot.


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## butchersapron (Jan 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Of course their politics stink. But if I was advancing English patriotism I'd be sure to use the beautiful language of the same land to the best of my ability, and to improve upon that use if it was wanting. We are talking here about an absolutely exceptional degree of shit use here, below what would reasonably acceptable at the start of secondary school. I think it serves a few purposes to deconstruct their dire linguistic skills. And it's piss funny to boot.


That's how you stopped hitler.


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## Red Storm (Jan 17, 2012)

I really get tired of the mockery of the educational standards of racists. Do you think their grammar level is much different to a large section of the working class and lumpen class?


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## krink (Jan 17, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I really get tired of the mockery of the educational standards of racists. Do you think their grammar level is much different to a large section of the working class and lumpen class?



aye same here, it's ok if you're doing a bit of winding-up, face to face it can even be funnier but on some of the anti-edl pages on the internet politics doesn't get a look in it is all personal insults...a lot of which could be just as easily directed at, say...me! for example; fat, ugly, poor, estate scum!


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 17, 2012)

Well I knew I would get some sneers. I wasn't expecting 3 quick ones on the trot. At least Butcher has some humour about it. Funny thing is Butch, that Hitler was linguistically adept, maybe that is your point.

It's not about "educational standards" Red Storm. Nor is it about class. Do I think their grammar, syntax, spelling etc. is below that of the average working class? Almost certainly yes, though their are exceptions. I have done a lot of teaching in my time and class is no special predictor of the ability of an adult to use full stops.

The predliction for caps-locks. The common allergy to nearly any punctuation made up for by an over use of exclamation marks. The hyperbole. The froth. It's funny as fuck. Perhaps laughing at it (as you point out there is a notable FB page dedicated to it, which is also very good from a general anti fascist pov) is a distraction from how horrible it all is. Perhaps it's that which I struggle to fathom - the blind hate, but I also have a small amount of potential sympathy for people so alienated, lost and duped.

Overall though, sympathy and understanding of lower educational attainment or whatever goes out the window when the hate comes in.

The politics of these people make them fair game for humour. People who extol the virtues of England and the English look stupid when they can't even master the basics of the language. Most immigrants I know have a better command of the written word, which again has bugger all to do with class.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 17, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I really get tired of the mockery of the educational standards of racists. Do you think their grammar level is much different to a large section of the working class and lumpen class?



By the way, I hope no slur is intended here to imply that the "working" or "lumpen" classes are any kind of hotbed of racists or people without language skills.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Well I knew I would get some sneers. I wasn't expecting 3 quick ones on the trot. At least Butcher has some humour about it. Funny thing is Butch, that Hitler was linguistically adept, maybe that is your point.
> 
> It's not about "educational standards" Red Storm. Nor is it about class. Do I think their grammar, syntax, spelling etc. is below that of the average working class? Almost certainly yes, though their are exceptions. I have done a lot of teaching in my time and class is no special predictor of the ability of an adult to use full stops.
> 
> ...



See bold - how on earth is that "good from a general antifascist pov"? Jesus christ.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> By the way, I hope no slur is intended here to imply that the "working" or "lumpen" classes are any kind of hotbed of racists or people without language skills.



What on earth made you think it was/could be?


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## frogwoman (Jan 17, 2012)

> though their are exceptions



heh


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## Red Storm (Jan 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> By the way, I hope no slur is intended here to imply that the "working" or "lumpen" classes are any kind of hotbed of racists or people without language skills.



Where do you think the BNP get their votes from? The working and lumpen classes are their constituency. EDIT: bad phrase to say consituency but I mean it's where they get most of their votes from.

If anything sneering at the literary abilities of the casual racists does nothing for the anti-fascist movement. What do you think they will think of you for laughing at their educational standard? 'Middle class prick' is what. Instead we should be trying to convert those that see race and nationality as the answer to their problems rather than class (and smash, where possible, the organisers of it). Being snooty will do anti-fascism no favours.


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## cantsin (Jan 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Well I knew I would get some sneers. I wasn't expecting 3 quick ones on the trot. At least Butcher has some humour about it. Funny thing is Butch, that Hitler was linguistically adept, maybe that is your point.
> 
> It's not about "educational standards" Red Storm. Nor is it about class. Do I think their grammar, syntax, spelling etc. is below that of the average working class? Almost certainly yes, though their are exceptions. I have done a lot of teaching in my time and class is no special predictor of the ability of an adult to use full stops.
> 
> ...



it's just not funny , at all , it's been pointed out / refferred to a 1000 times, and , Muslimic Rayguns aside, just  -i-s- n-o-t- f-u-n-n-y.


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## john x (Jan 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> That's how you stopped hitler.


As far as we know, Hitler didn't speak any English. 

john x


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## Fingers (Jan 17, 2012)

UKIP's Kim Gandy takes rather a nasty fall

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/exposed-ukip-candidate-and-edl-supporter-kim-gandy


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## bignose1 (Jan 18, 2012)

Gary Fiennes-H said:


> The guy who got carted off was Eddie Stampton apparently.


Apt moniker Head is stamped on


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## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2012)

spiked piece on EDL somewhat overestimating their support and underestimating the fact the mr tommy has pissed a lot of people off and the infidels has seriously damaged them. oh and being humiliated in whitechapel didnt help did it?
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/reviewofbooks_preview/11909/
also, who is patrick hayes? he was on on bbc world talking about wiki thing today.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2012)

and the rochdale asda demo didnt do em many favours. they just looked like a bunch of clueless arse clowns!


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## krink (Jan 18, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Well I knew I would get some sneers. I wasn't expecting 3 quick ones on the trot.



How many did you expect? Three isn't bad and really, mine was only by association because I replied to Red Storm. Call it two and a bit?


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## john x (Jan 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> spiked piece on EDL somewhat overestimating their support and underestimating the fact the mr tommy has pissed a lot of people off and the infidels has seriously damaged them. oh and being humiliated in whitechapel didnt help did it?
> http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/reviewofbooks_preview/11909/
> also, who is patrick hayes? he was on on bbc world talking about wiki thing today.


Bit of a crap piece with lots of innacuracies.

He claims that the facebook page crashed when in fact what they are referring to was the first big hacking by ZHC. He says that the looseness of the facebook pages means that in all likelihood the "Occupy threat" that led to the arrests on Armistice Day were made by a 'fake left-wing' profile, when it is well-known that it was made by an EDL admin.

He also says that the Brevik link probably extended no further than him clicking 'like' on an EDL facebook page when it is now known that the links were more concrete than that.

john x


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 18, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> See bold - how on earth is that "good from a general antifascist pov"? Jesus christ.



Spiney - I was talking about "Still Laughing at The English Defence League" on Facebook. It's main thing is taking the piss, but a lot of it is more generally anti fascist/racist and very good for updates. A lot of people / content crossover with "Expose" and EDL News.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 18, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> What on earth made you think it was/could be?



Not "was" as much as "could". What on earth was it? The words.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Where do you think the BNP get their votes from? The working and lumpen classes are their constituency. EDIT: bad phrase to say consituency but I mean it's where they get most of their votes from.
> 
> If anything sneering at the literary abilities of the casual racists does nothing for the anti-fascist movement. What do you think they will think of you for laughing at their educational standard? 'Middle class prick' is what. Instead we should be trying to convert those that see race and nationality as the answer to their problems rather than class (and smash, where possible, the organisers of it). Being snooty will do anti-fascism no favours.



They call us "middle class pricks" anyway. Why govern what we do or say by their paranoia? It's not snootiness, we are not talking about the odd typo or split infinitive here. It is extremely sub standard. If the irony of English patriots being shit at English escapes them or others then far enough. I find it funny. I am not trying to convert them in doing so. That requires reason, which appears  to be beyond them too. There is a difference between saying "gosh, they are dim" about them and "gosh you are dim" to them.

As for class and the BNP - that is not the same point as associating extremely bad English skills with the working class. Some (pretty old) research shows that BNP voters have the lowest IQ of all voters. I know IQ tests chiefly measure the ability to do IQ tests, but again it is useful to know.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 18, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Not "was" as much as "could". What on earth was it? The words.



Ok, what was it about those words that made you think he was slurring the w/c as illiterate and racist? Can't see it myself.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 18, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Spiney - I was talking about "Still Laughing at The English Defence League" on Facebook. It's main thing is taking the piss, but a lot of it is more generally anti fascist/racist and very good for updates. A lot of people / content crossover with "Expose" and EDL News.



Yes, and most of it is taking the piss out of them for having poor grammar and a poor grasp of the English language. I don't know about you, but that's not what _I_ find offensive about them, I'm more bothered about the racism. And when there's plenty of people not aligned to either "side" of this who share their lack of literary skill, and who could possibly be won over to either side, what impact do you think taking the piss out of it will have on them? Will they think, "you know, those middle class liberals are right, the EDL can't spell, just as I can't spell, and so don't deserve my support," or will they think, "the clueless middle class liberals are taking the piss out of _people like me_ so I want to be on the other side"?

This is especially damaging when the same middle class liberals are also taking the piss out of them for being "benefits scrounging scum" or "unemployable", especially when compared to "entrepreneurial Muslims" and "hard working immigrants", as it often is.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 18, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Ok, what was it about those words that made you think he was slurring the w/c as illiterate and racist? Can't see it myself.



"Do you think their grammar level is much different to a large section of the working class and lumpen class?"

To which I answered "yes" as someone with long experience of teaching in many such skills.

An  inference could be drawn that their spelling etc. may be only as bad as average those classes, and thereby that those classes are predilicted to have such extremely poor language skills as very frequently exhibited by the EDL. That would be a slur. Hope this helps. If you disagree, fine. I think going round the houses on it will give diminishing returns for both of us.


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## Luther Blissett (Jan 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> spiked piece on EDL somewhat overestimating their support and underestimating the fact the mr tommy has pissed a lot of people off and the infidels has seriously damaged them. oh and being humiliated in whitechapel didnt help did it?
> http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/reviewofbooks_preview/11909/
> also, who is patrick hayes? he was on on bbc world talking about wiki thing today.


He is one of the Living Marxism lot. They do a mean line in denial - climate change denial, bosnian genocide denial, EDL admin making threats on the interweb denial, and their GM stance is ... well... check them out
Living Marxism - Festering Fascism: http://www.urban75.org/archive/news028.html
Living Marxism - overview: http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Living_Marxism
Spiked - overview: http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Spiked
Patrick Hayes: http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Patrick_Hayes


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 18, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yes, and most of it is taking the piss out of them for having poor grammar and a poor grasp of the English language. I don't know about you, but that's not what _I_ find offensive about them, I'm more bothered about the racism. And when there's plenty of people not aligned to either "side" of this who share their lack of literary skill, and who could possibly be won over to either side, what impact do you think taking the piss out of it will have on them? Will they think, "you know, those middle class liberals are right, the EDL can't spell, just as I can't spell, and so don't deserve my support," or will they think, "the clueless middle class liberals are taking the piss out of _people like me_ so I want to be on the other side"?



Of course their racism bothers me more. Poorly expressed general stuff doesn't bother me at all. English patriots being shit at English does. less intelligent people aint a problem remotely. Less intelligent racists (and more intelligent ones) are.

Those on the sidelines need only be shown the long list of criminal cases and racist vitriol to persuade them. It ain't hard, unless they are obfuscators and apologists.

_"This is especially damaging when the same middle class liberals are also taking the piss out of them for being "benefits scrounging scum" or "unemployable", especially when compared to "entrepreneurial Muslims" and "hard working immigrants", as it often is_

I don't know about "often". Certainly not on that page. And I have slagged it off where I have seen it.
There is a large cross over between humour and politics.

There is a similar point to be made with "culture". I generally don't give a monkeys about peoples lifestyle and culture. But if they start to froth and gibber about "our way of life" "our culture" etc. then they become fair game for being under the microscope.

How many Elizabethan madrigals do they know? What is their opinion on the Diggers, William Blake etc? If by English "culture" they mean drinking too much, being stupid and racist and playing Call Of Duty a lot I will beg to differ. The idea that such "culture" is only middle class is bloody offensive and stupid. Where I am from the working class took great pride in being cultured. How much money does one need to like Shakespeare? How much control of the means of production or bourgoise interests to listen to Stravinsky? Answer: Bugger all much.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 18, 2012)

cantsin said:


> it's just not funny , at all , it's been pointed out / refferred to a 1000 times, and , Muslimic Rayguns aside, just -i-s- n-o-t- f-u-n-n-y.



Humour is personal but here's 2 for starters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUfZ2Di4EYk&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL9C600349D2137A4D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8pxWTZfim8

They also have this thing about trying to get all poetic about some kind of imminent "civil war".

Or the fuckwit halal protests without a vegan among them.

But how dare we laugh. No no no. Must not laugh - it will make more people racist and only middle class people find thick racists a potential source of humour *

_* Excludes working class people who happen to concur._

ETA: It's separate but makes my blood boil. I have to sell my Labour or sign on to get by. We are probably at the point that people will be denounced as "middle class" for reading Marx. Engles, of course, was the very definition of Middle Class. Marx wasn't far behind. I wonder how may self appointed experts of the left will queue up to slag them off.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 18, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> "Do you think their grammar level is much different to a large section of the working class and lumpen class?"
> 
> To which I answered "yes" as someone with long experience of teaching in many such skills.
> 
> An inference could be drawn that their spelling etc. may be only as bad as average those classes, and thereby that those classes are predilicted to have such extremely poor language skills as very frequently exhibited by the EDL. That would be a slur. Hope this helps. If you disagree, fine. I think going round the houses on it will give diminishing returns for both of us.



And I'd argue it's not a slur, as someone who grew up on the kind of estates the "lumpen" tend to come from. It's a fact - a greater proportion of working class and "lumpen" people have poor literacy skills. Not because they're stupid but because of the additional barriers they face to getting a good education, as compared to the middle class. Or are you trying to suggest that these inequalities don't exist and don't impact in any way on adult literacy?

He was just stating fact.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 18, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Of course their racism bothers me more. Poorly expressed general stuff doesn't bother me at all. English patriots being shit at English does. less intelligent people aint a problem remotely. Less intelligent racists (and more intelligent ones) are.
> 
> Those on the sidelines need only be shown the long list of criminal cases and racist vitriol to persuade them. It ain't hard, unless they are obfuscators and apologists.
> 
> ...



Are you a member of UAF taffboy? I think you'd fit in well there.

Well done on not even attempting to address the questions posed to you though.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 18, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Are you a member of UAF taffboy? I think you'd fit in well there.
> 
> Well done on not even attempting to address the questions posed to you though.



The efforts in attaining education (even outside of formal channels) among the working class is something the middle classes haven't liked either. Tried to influence it, stop it, divert it and traduced the working class as thick, stupid, narrow, incapable etc.

What taff misses with regard to class, is that it isn't just whether or not someone is acquainted with canonical works from various periods in history. These people aren't just derided for their racism. Others, including those who are literate and articulate, and who aren't racist, are just going to think 'Hang on, you're also taking the piss out of my family too. And my neighbours, workmates etc.' It won't push people into joining with or agreeing with the racists, but it can be counter-productive, and they'll just give the middle class lefty outsiders a wide berth.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2012)

thanks LB! RCP. blimey.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 18, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> The efforts in attaining education (even outside of formal channels) among the working class is something the middle classes haven't liked either. Tried to influence it, stop it, divert it and traduced the working class as thick, stupid, narrow, incapable etc.
> 
> What taff misses with regard to class, is that it isn't just whether or not someone is acquainted with canonical works from various periods in history. These people aren't just derided for their racism. Others, including those who are literate and articulate, and who aren't racist, are just going to think 'Hang on, you're also taking the piss out of my family too. And my neighbours, workmates etc.' It won't push people into joining with or agreeing with the racists, but it can be counter-productive, and they'll just give the middle class lefty outsiders a wide berth.



Precisely.


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## Deareg (Jan 18, 2012)

Anyone spot the deliberate spelling mistake?


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## Red Storm (Jan 18, 2012)

Just spotted this: http://fashwatch.weebly.com/


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## Red Storm (Jan 18, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> They call us "middle class pricks" anyway. Why govern what we do or say by their paranoia? It's not snootiness, we are not talking about the odd typo or split infinitive here. It is extremely sub standard. If the irony of English patriots being shit at English escapes them or others then far enough. I find it funny. I am not trying to convert them in doing so. That requires reason, which appears to be beyond them too. There is a difference between saying "gosh, they are dim" about them and "gosh you are dim" to them.
> 
> As for class and the BNP - that is not the same point as associating extremely bad English skills with the working class. Some (pretty old) research shows that BNP voters have the lowest IQ of all voters. I know IQ tests chiefly measure the ability to do IQ tests, but again it is useful to know.



You're totally missing the class perspective of the whole subject. It's not their bad spelling that is a threat to the working class community it is their politics.

Do you really think the majority of racist working class and lumpen people have the following thought train: why am I unemployed and living in shit conditions? ---> Ah! It's because of immigration just like "BNP Jim" down the pub said. Not like there is any other answer to my problem on my estate. ---> Now I'm a concious political nationalist I must go down the library and beef up on my Shakespeare because I've missed out on that part of my education, being failed by the education system and all.

No what actually happens is just the first two stages.

Now image that after the second stage imagine another equally as unlikely counterfactual. Someone like you goes to a working class estate. Rather than explaining to these people why class rather than nation or race is the solution to their problems and then trying to enact that by becoming involved in the local politics of that estate, you simply sneer at their low levels of education. A problem caused by the very thing that socialists should be fighting against.

As for the IQ thing that is just laughable. Not only do you not provide evidence but IQ has been found wanting in a number of respects. Including white, middle class people doing better in them because the tests are set by white, middle class people. (This was in The Economist in 2010 sometime, it's because they ask questions like 'unjumble this anogram to find this famous person: eraeehspkas'.)


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 18, 2012)

tbf, taffboy acknowledged that, re IQ.

Agree on the middle class.  Subjectively, and on life in poor working class communities especially, _haven't got a fucking clue_.

Going to make more enemies than friends with an attitude like that.


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## Red Storm (Jan 18, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> tbf, taffboy acknowledged that, re IQ.
> 
> Agree on the middle class. Subjectively, and on life in poor working class communities especially, _haven't got a fucking clue_.
> 
> Going to make more enemies than friends with an attitude like that.



I don't understand your post.

He still used IQ to back up his argument though. If he knows it is not a good measurement then he shouldn't have mentioned it.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 18, 2012)

What I was saying before, about culture, education.


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## Red Storm (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm still lost. Are you saying I haven't got a clue and will make enemies or taff?


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 18, 2012)

No, no. That Taff's attitude, or that which has been perhaps articulated wrongly on this thread, will make enemies, re the sneeriness.  I know it would among members of my family, but that is being anecdotal.  And they aren't racist either.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 18, 2012)

Yeah, I realise now that the IQ thing was another seemingly sneery 'fail', as the teenagers say these days.


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## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

i can't see what spelling and literacy have to do with fighting the fash, surely that's the product of a shitty education system? one of my mates has trouble with literacy. in middle class households people who have trouble with literacy or with reading and writing are more likely to be picked up on and often given therapy or extra help which the parents can either afford or have a chance to take the kids to, whereas my friend wasn't, she's very much had to fend for herself. it's insulting to people to link fash with problems with spelling etc. i don't see what good it can do.


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## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

and i also notice taffboy has made more than a few spelling errors himself on the thread, as someone who has worked as a proofreader. (I know I have too but I don't bother to write properly on urban75 much of the time)


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## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> As for class and the BNP - that is not the same point as associating extremely bad English skills with the working class. Some (pretty old) research shows that BNP voters have the lowest IQ of all voters. I know IQ tests chiefly measure the ability to do IQ tests, but again it is useful to know.



i'd like a link to this please (and the very concept of people's political choices determined by biological factors such as intelligence is pretty fash-like itself).


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i can't see what spelling and literacy have to do with fighting the fash, surely that's the product of a shitty education system? one of my mates has trouble with literacy. in middle class households people who have trouble with literacy or with reading and writing are more likely to be picked up on and often given therapy or extra help which the parents can either afford or have a chance to take the kids to, whereas my friend wasn't, she's very much had to fend for herself. it's insulting to people to link fash with problems with spelling etc. i don't see what good it can do.



It's unquestioned class prejudice.

Not slagging you, you're sound, but it is a simplistic, blind assumption people make. Sadly, it is how far discourse on class is based just on culture these days, rather than the importance imo of an economically-generated explanation. Or rather, on the 'culture front' (to use an old Leninist term, ironically I promise, lol), an outsider's inaccurate and back-firing view of culture and the working class. No wonder the left is fucked.


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## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> It's unquestioned class prejudice.
> 
> Not slagging you, you're sound, but it is a simplistic, blind assumption people make. Sadly, it is how far discourse on class is based just on culture these days, rather than the importance imo of an economically-generated explanation. Or rather, on the 'culture front' (to use an old Leninist term, ironically I promise, lol), an outsider's inaccurate and back-firing view of culture and the working class. No wonder the left is fucked.



I think culture is an important aspect of class but I believe a lot of culture is generated by economic conditions.


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## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> It's unquestioned class prejudice.
> 
> Not slagging you, you're sound, but it is a simplistic, blind assumption people make. Sadly, it is how far discourse on class is based just on culture these days, rather than the importance imo of an economically-generated explanation. Or rather, on the 'culture front' (to use an old Leninist term, ironically I promise, lol), an outsider's inaccurate and back-firing view of culture and the working class. No wonder the left is fucked.



i wasn't saying that was what i thought mate, not saying that people who are working class are all pathetic at spelling and writing, but those who are are less likely to be able to be given help etc with that stuff. we were watching a movie at the weekend about gangsters and my friend didn't know wat the kkk were/are or who al capone was, she also has trouble understanding things in some newspapers such as the daily mail. that doesn't maker her thick it just means that she's had very different priorities in life and much less spare time than a lot of others, and its also the assumptions by teachers etc that people are thick as well. i've always thought it's very very dangerous to assume that the extreme right are stupid or that problems reading and understanding/being interested "cultural" things is a sign of stupidity. many times i think people feel intimidated and shut out from that stuff so they don't try.

the thing with the fash is that they are not all (or even mostly!) stupid, they are not all even illiterate. it's very very dangerous to assume that they are. i don't see that having a go at people for spelling and writing has the slightest bit to do with fighting the fash or giving fascist ideology less credibility.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jan 19, 2012)

I know you weren't.

Been there done that.  Until I met a working class Marxist tutor in FE. 

My best teacher at school was a 'middle class wanker.'  The best middle class wanker I have ever known.  Used to talk about falling asleep while reading a book and waking in the morning to find his cheek had been reddened by the book resting on his face.  Not quite sure if that was some weird sexual euphemism, but I generally _knew_ what he meant.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)




----------



## intersol32 (Jan 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Just spotted this: http://fashwatch.weebly.com/



Fucking hell. Simon Biggs (Skrewdriver tattoo on forehead) - is he still around? Thought he was dead by now.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Fucking hell. Simon Biggs (Skrewdriver tattoo on forehead) - is he still around? Thought he was dead by now.



He came up on here not too long ago. I think on the BTF thread. Had the tattoo removed I believe.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Fucking hell. Simon Biggs (Skrewdriver tattoo on forehead) - is he still around? Thought he was dead by now.



Pic 15 of 30 in the unknown section is known by some on here. I was there when that picture was taken, it's at Rochdale Majestrates. Wayne Taylor was in court and we'd gone to support the Asian lads he'd tried to stab. 

I put the pic up online with a name but I can't remember it now.


----------



## krink (Jan 19, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Fucking hell. Simon Biggs (Skrewdriver tattoo on forehead) - is he still around? Thought he was dead by now.



runs newcastle NF. had the tatoo removed then got another one a bit further round his fat head


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> and i also notice taffboy has made more than a few spelling errors himself on the thread, as someone who has worked as a proofreader. (I know I have too but I don't bother to write properly on urban75 much of the time)



I don't claim to be an English patriot. If I did I would be more careful with the beautiful language. And I am talking about extreme levels of bad literacy not the odd typo.

Here's a link to the voter "intelligence" research. Not fascist remotely in itself. Just some research.

http://www.libdemvoice.org/official...kip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html


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## Ranbay (Jan 19, 2012)

*Anjem Choudary is going to demo outside the US Embassy about the pissing on dead Muslsims thing, so the EDL are going to counter demo it tomrrow.*

Nothing can go wrong trust me......


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Are you a member of UAF taffboy? I think you'd fit in well there.
> 
> Well done on not even attempting to address the questions posed to you though.



No. I ain't in the UAF. I know a fair few, but disagree with some aspects of strategy. I did some leafleting one election when I had run out of stuff for my own tribe. I spoke at a national event of theirs once, was the only person who critiqued strategy and didn't just wring my hands and say "the BNP are bad, and whats more they are bad" (this was just after Griffin got it). I went on a demo called by them against the EDL. Is it even a membership organisation? I think I have at least attempted to answer the questions. Another disagreement I'm sure we can both live with.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I don't understand your post.
> 
> He still used IQ to back up his argument though. If he knows it is not a good measurement then he shouldn't have mentioned it.



It's a dubious measurement, but the only widely recognised measurement there is. Take it or leave it. If you think BNP voters are a super bright specimen then you could try and demonstrate otherwise. But you almost certainly don't.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't claim to be an English patriot. If I did I would be more careful with the beautiful language. And I am talking about extreme levels of bad literacy not the odd typo.
> 
> Here's a link to the voter "intelligence" research. Not fascist remotely in itself. Just some research.
> 
> http://www.libdemvoice.org/official...kip-voters-least-intelligent-of-all-5475.html



erm how is that website link to be trusted, a link to a lib-dem site saying that lib-dem voters are more intelligent than tories or labour voters??


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

Just wrapping up a few more things. To deride the education system as "shitty" is very simplistic. It is, but for very complex reasons. And it is far from the only reason for poor literacy. The prime function of school is not to educate in any case. It is to facilitate parents and carers being at work. I have seen enough EDL stuff and taught in enough schools at the more deprived end of things to know that it is the EDL type who, perhaps not long ago, were busy trying to ruin the education of others by fucking about the whole time in a nasty calculated way. I am not talking about boredom related stuff here, just plain self centred nastiness. Still, I am sure there is a liberal excuse for that as well.

But my case isn't about literacy alone, though it features high. For one thing (and for the umpteenth time): They claim to be "patriots", many are uber patriotic. But they are barely functional in their mother tongue. This is ironic. Irony is a building block of humour. There are also the stark contradictions, the wanton ignorance, the inability to formulate and dissect arguments on the most basic level. It's woeful and I can't see why anyone would make excuses for it. It is worse, in my experience, than the average of the working class. If a link can be shown between various takes on stupidity and bilious patriotism I think that is useful, even if one doesn't shout about it.

Does this mean insulting all people of such low attainment? absolutely not. What makes them a target for insult is their hatred and their politics. Should we "debate" with them? Yes, and I have (round the back of the internet). Guess what? I didn't call them "thick" to their faces. Even the more "reasoned" ones weren't that persuadable. For every balanced argument and piece of understanding they hear they will hear 10 bits of emotive hate filled lies from elsewhere. The bulk of the EDL are thuggish wankers, as is glaringly obvious to everyone who has watched videos of their demos, most here will have. They deserve every bit of derision aimed at them, not misplaced liberal sympathy. There are exceptions of course, especially in the mild sympathiser category. But as the months and years have gone by that has thinned out as their true nature becomes more starkly obvious.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

i don't think that "intelligence" exists tbh and i certanily don't think it can be used as an indicator of political opinions at all tbh and it becomes very ironic to say when talking about fascism of all fuckings things that "stupid" people are more likely to be fash ... you know where that leads right ...


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Just wrapping up a few more things. To deride the education system as "shitty" is very simplistic. It is, but for very complex reasons. And it is far from the only reason for poor literacy. The prime function of school is not to educate in any case. It is to facilitate parents and carers being at work. I have seen enough EDL stuff and taught in enough schools at the more deprived end of things to know that it is the *EDL type who, perhaps not long ago, were busy trying to ruin the education of others by fucking about the whole time in a nasty calculated way*. I am not talking about boredom related stuff here, just plain self centred nastiness. Still, I am sure there is a liberal excuse for that as well.



Right now we've got down to where your thoughts have originated. 

Your posts only re-enforce the fact that your snobbery is not anti-fascism. It has no class basis behind it.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 19, 2012)




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## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

And there were people who turned to fascism and neo-nazism because of (what they say)was as a result of having their education "fucked about with". I don't see what your point is here.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

> I have seen enough EDL stuff and taught in enough schools at the more deprived end of things to know that it is the EDL type who, perhaps not long ago, were busy trying to ruin the education of others by fucking about the whole time in a nasty calculated way. I am not talking about boredom related stuff here, just plain self centred nastiness. Still, I am sure there is a liberal excuse for that as well.



I've seen fash saying this behaviour (by ethnic minorities) is why they became fash.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Just wrapping up a few more things. To deride the education system as "shitty" is very simplistic. It is, but for very complex reasons. And it is far from the only reason for poor literacy. The prime function of school is not to educate in any case. It is to facilitate parents and carers being at work. I have seen enough EDL stuff and taught in enough schools at the more deprived end of things to know that it is the EDL type who, perhaps not long ago, were busy trying to ruin the education of others by fucking about the whole time in a nasty calculated way. I am not talking about boredom related stuff here, just plain self centred nastiness. Still, I am sure there is a liberal excuse for that as well.
> 
> But my case isn't about literacy alone, though it features high. For one thing (and for the umpteenth time): They claim to be "patriots", many are uber patriotic. But they are barely functional in their mother tongue. This is ironic. Irony is a building block of humour. There are also the stark contradictions, the wanton ignorance, the inability to formulate and dissect arguments on the most basic level. It's woeful and I can't see why anyone would make excuses for it. It is worse, in my experience, than the average of the working class. If a link can be shown between various takes on stupidity and bilious patriotism I think that is useful, even if one doesn't shout about it.
> 
> Does this mean insulting all people of such low attainment? absolutely not. What makes them a target for insult is their hatred and their politics. Should we "debate" with them? Yes, and I have (round the back of the internet). Guess what? I didn't call them "thick" to their faces. Even the more "reasoned" ones weren't that persuadable. For every balanced argument and piece of understanding they hear they will hear 10 bits of emotive hate filled lies from elsewhere. The bulk of the EDL are thuggish wankers, as is glaringly obvious to everyone who has watched videos of their demos, most here will have. They deserve every bit of derision aimed at them, not misplaced liberal sympathy. There are exceptions of course, especially in the mild sympathiser category. But as the months and years have gone by that has thinned out as their true nature becomes more starkly obvious.



So if I encountered a racist who was also gay and subjected him to a load of homophobic abuse would you accept "I'm not doing it because he's gay, what makes him a target is his racism" as an excuse? I fucking wouldn't, just as I don't accept "it's because they're racist" as an excuse for your sneering attitude.

And the only liberal on this thread is you taffboy. You've even used a link to fucking lib dem voice ;facepalm:


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i don't think that "intelligence" exists tbh and i certanily don't think it can be used as an indicator of political opinions at all tbh and it becomes very ironic to say when talking about fascism of all fuckings things that "stupid" people are more likely to be fash ... you know where that leads right ...



No. I know what you want to extrapolate from it, but it would be to misconstrue fascism and the points I have been making.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I've seen fash saying this behaviour (by ethnic minorities) is why they became fash.



Well they are ignorant, and wantonly so. Do they think pink skinned indigenous don't behave like that, or do they blot it out to suit their prejudice? I think we both know. Why use the misplaced deluded arguments of fascists to try and bolster your own view?


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> No. I know what you want to extrapolate from it, but it would be to misconstrue fascism and the points I have been making.



You may be an anti-racist but you certainly aren't an anti-fascist.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

so you don't think that notions of "intelligence" and "stupidity" could be associated with fascist beliefs in any way?
i'm not calling you a fascist btw, i'm just asking you to think


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> So if I encountered a racist who was also gay and subjected him to a load of homophobic abuse would you accept "I'm not doing it because he's gay, what makes him a target is his racism" as an excuse? I fucking wouldn't, just as I don't accept "it's because they're racist" as an excuse for your sneering attitude.
> 
> And the only liberal on this thread is you taffboy. You've even used a link to fucking lib dem voice ;facepalm:



Yes, linking to a LD piece makes me a Liberal. And a facepalm doubleplus proves it.  That is the level you are at? People have the same views as any place they link to? Perhaps you ought to get admin to put a sticky up making sure everyone understands this. Or perhaps can produce less flimsy denouncements. They were quoting separate research. It's just where I picked it up from in short  order from Google.  There's an interesting UKIP blog about the whole Kim Gandy thing. Can I post that up without being called a UKIPer? Remind me not to post any links to the BNP or EDL. Yes, I really believe you can do better. 

As for the hypothetical (or not) gay racist - is s/he wantonly ignorant? S/he should perhaps know better as a victim of prejudice. If they said something laughably stupid I would laugh at them. There is no need to be homophobic. Given that these EDL can't use English properly (something that has not been addressed here once to my memory) a closer, though not perfect analogy would be a gay person going around indulging in a celebration of hetrosexual culture


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> You may be an anti-racist but you certainly aren't an anti-fascist.



I don't believe in any kind of strong state, let alone fascism. Any derision of thick racists would not give any indication of support for such government. You are using fascism very loosely as a term. I oppose any form of ideology such as eugenics. I am not an elitist. But I find stupid racist arguments, froth and bile to be funny. So do lots of anti fascists. I will conceed that it is perhaps, as I said earlier,  partly a mechanism for dealing with how horrible and incomprehensible it all is. I know you follow them pretty closely, and I know you know how vile some of those people are. Perhaps laughter is a bit of light relief from it all.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Well they are ignorant, and wantonly so. Do they think pink skinned indigenous don't behave like that, or do they blot it out to suit their prejudice? I think we both know. Why use the misplaced deluded arguments of fascists to try and bolster your own view?



i never said i believed them or that they were right, did I? and not all of them do block it out.

I'm saying that a lot of them are very far from being ignorant which is a fact that you seem not to want to acknowledge. there are fash teachers, fash doctors, fash university lecturers. there are people involved in the far right from working class backgrounds who are very articulate and intelligent. it's  pretty safe bet that most of those would also despise people like the ones you describe and would put it down to "poor breeding" etc. some of them would even give that behaviour, the behaviour of "the sheep" "the masses" etc as a justification for believing in such elitist nonsense. you are kidding yourself if you think that all fascists are "ignorant" etc.


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## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't believe in any kind of strong state, let alone fascism. Any derision of thick racists would not give any indication of support for such government. You are using fascism very loosely as a term. I oppose any form of ideology such as eugenics. I am not an elitist. But I find stupid racist arguments, froth and bile to be funny. So do lots of anti fascists. I will conceed that it is perhaps, as I said earlier, partly a mechanism for dealing with how horrible and incomprehensible it all is. I know you follow them pretty closely, and I know you know how vile some of those people are. Perhaps laughter is a bit of light relief from it all.



I use anti-fascism in class terms.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Yes, linking to a LD piece makes me a Liberal. And a facepalm doubleplus proves it. That is the level you are at? People have the same views as any place they link to? Perhaps you ought to get admin to put a sticky up making sure everyone understands this. Or perhaps can produce less flimsy denouncements. They were quoting separate research. It's just where I picked it up from in short order from Google. There's an interesting UKIP blog about the whole Kim Gandy thing. Can I post that up without being called a UKIPer? Remind me not to post any links to the BNP or EDL. Yes, I really believe you can do better.
> 
> As for the hypothetical (or not) gay racist - is s/he wantonly ignorant? S/he should perhaps know better as a victim of prejudice. If they said something laughably stupid I would laugh at them. There is no need to be homophobic. Given that these EDL can't use English properly (something that has not been addressed here once to my memory) a closer, though not perfect analogy would be a gay person going around indulging in a celebration of hetrosexual culture



Oh dear.


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## Termite Man (Jan 19, 2012)

Isn't it  a fairly common trait of the racist to denounce foreigners for coming here and not being able to speak the language. In those instances I don't see why criticism of poor spelling/grammar isn't an acceptable retort


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## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Isn't it a fairly common trait of the racist to denounce foreigners for coming here and not being able to speak the language. In those instances I don't see why criticism of poor spelling/grammar isn't an acceptable retort



Because criticism doesn't understand why they don't have good spelling/grammar.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Isn't it a fairly common trait of the racist to denounce foreigners for coming here and not being able to speak the language. In those instances I don't see why criticism of poor spelling/grammar isn't an acceptable retort



Which makes it funnier still when those whinging are barely functioning in the literacy of the only language they generally know. If anything it props up the case against them. Here they are droning on about migrants with poor English skills, while those skills are often better than their own. And as I said up thread, class certainly has little to do with that. Migrants are very diverse in terms of their class.


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## Termite Man (Jan 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Because criticism doesn't understand why they don't have good spelling/grammar.



and why should it, in the case of accusing immigrants of not being able to speak the language you should at least have some level of competence in the language yourself. Whats that old saying , people in glass houses...


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## butchersapron (Jan 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Which makes it funnier still when those whinging are barely functioning in the literacy of the only language they generally know. If anything it props up the case against them. Here they are droning on about migrants with poor English skills, while those skills are often better than their own. And as I said up thread, class certainly has little to do with that. Migrants are very diverse in terms of their class.


The class stuff is more to do with you and your approach frankly.We know very well - those of us who've been here a while - how you view the wider working class. How you view people who wear branded sportswear and so on.


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## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> and why should it, in the case of accusing immigrants of not being able to speak the language you should at least have some level of competence in the language yourself. Whats that old saying , people in glass houses...


----------



## Termite Man (Jan 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


>



Nice point. If, as you are claiming, there are legitimate reasons why someone has poor spelling/grammar surely criticism of it in the specific scenario I'm talking about is a good way for them to realise that it's not going to be such a simple thing for an immigrant to just 'learn the language' as they can see why they may have failed to achieve a decent standard with their own English.

Out of interest , how would you tackle someone criticising immigrants for not speaking English?


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## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Nice point. If, as you are claiming, there are legitimate reasons why someone has poor spelling/grammar surely criticism of it in the specific scenario I'm talking about is a good way for them realising that it's not going to be such a simple thing for an immigrant to just 'learn the language' as they can see why they may have failed to achieve a decent standard with their own English.
> 
> Out of interest , how would you tackle someone criticising immigrants for not speaking English?



I can't be arsed arguing about it


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## Termite Man (Jan 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I can't be arsed arguing about it


I'm not arguing , in fact I'm more than willing to listen to your take on it and learn.


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## Red Storm (Jan 19, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> I'm not arguing , in fact I'm more than willing to listen to your take on it and learn.



I'll post tomorrow.


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## Termite Man (Jan 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I'll post tomorrow.



Cheers.


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## october_lost (Jan 19, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Out of interest , how would you tackle someone criticising immigrants for not speaking English?


I would point out that of all people, the English, are more inclined to go abroad and not speak someone's lingo than anyone. It goes round in circles. The key thing should be about making people want to be part of society, rather than within a niche of it, without forcing this option upon them.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The class stuff is more to do with you and your approach frankly.We know very well - those of us who've been here a while - how you view the wider working class. How you view people who wear branded sportswear and so on.



The only comments about branded sportswear I recall were with regard to a union leader wearing, in official capacity, sportswear famously known to often be made under such conditions that no union leader who knew the basics would want to be seen associated with. I got flamed of course, because too many people would rather imagine class prejudice where it doesn't exist than rank hypocricy where it does (other than that incident I happen to have a lot of time for Bob Crowe).

That there is a looking class world, in the minds of some self appointed arbeitters of left politics, where criticising double standards around the conditions of exploited working class people is, in fact, deeply anti working class. I read somewhere that freedom is slavery as well.

Besides, I know plenty of middle class people who wear branded sportswear. What makes you think only working class people do or that I think that? I don't know who "we" is, or if you have done a survey. Being interagotive and sarcastic is part of your MO which is fair enough and often thought provoking. I didn't think exageration or even possible fabrication were. Still, it is the internet I guess. As I have already alluded to, it's not in my interests to deride the working class given that I need to sell my labour and have nothing to gain from the ongoing system of class exploitation. I have lived most of my life in very working class areas. Mind you, that's detail innit. Wouldn't want to get in the way of any impression of someone you don't know that pops into your noggin.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 20, 2012)

There is nothing funny about this. If anyone says it is funny they will only make neutral people more likely to become racist. Or something.

_English Defence League - London Region_

_So many have said the EDL is a dying matter, done and dusted, over and out. Well I for one am going to say BOLLOCKS you blind uneducated mugs, because the EDL are only just beginning. Well under 3 years old were still one of the youngest most inexperienced street armys to be recognized world wide, and all the problems that have occured and still will occur ar__e part of any successful organisation and pave the way to a bigger and stronger which in our case is an EDL than ever before. A good ultrapreneur if your organisation is a profitable one, will be the difference between £1000s and £1000000s and a good Teacher is the difference between good grades and none, It really is that simple and the best thing is that as all the people that jump ship during difficult times do nothing but generate the respected individuals still in support into a more hands on operational position, In which eventually turns into a genuine and trustworthy team which will achieve so much more than their predecessors did because for them the only way is forward and previous mistakes are easily avoided. The year 2012 has started absolutely superb, and is going to be the year that people start to realise that the EDL are not going anywhere and more importantly are growing stronger than ever by laying more roots and generating their own public media by way of their own actions in many more areas will directly put us THE ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE in to a new era and chapter of what is and going to be around FOREVER. (5)_


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## Citizen66 (Jan 20, 2012)

Classic liberal dilemma. On the one hand they're fash so obviously wankers but on the other they're working class so go easy on the criticism.


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## Blagsta (Jan 20, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Nice point. If, as you are claiming, there are legitimate reasons why someone has poor spelling/grammar surely criticism of it in the specific scenario I'm talking about is a good way for them to realise that it's not going to be such a simple thing for an immigrant to just 'learn the language' as they can see why they may have failed to achieve a decent standard with their own English.
> 
> Out of interest , how would you tackle someone criticising immigrants for not speaking English?



It's about looking at it with a class analysis. The reasons why some people turn to racism/fascism and the reasons for poor education are often linked, it is about class, and how it divides.


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## john x (Jan 20, 2012)

> _English Defence League - London Region_
> 
> _ ......people start to realise that the EDL are not going anywhere ...._



He got that bit right, at least! 

john x


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## Termite Man (Jan 20, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> It's about looking at it with a class analysis. The reasons why some people turn to racism/fascism and the reasons for poor education are often linked, it is about class, and how it divides.



You have a point, but if you criticise the racist for his language and he thinks it's because he's poor and didn't get a decent education then when he criticises an immigrant for not speaking English is it possible he could draw a parallel between the 2 ? I'm loathe to say that racists are stupid because I don't think they are, they may be poorly educated due to class etc but I don't think poorly educated means stupidity. I do agree with a lot of what has been said about just picking on the poor EDL grammar and punctuation because it serves no purpose and probably does more harm than good but I'm talking about specific incidents where a racist uses immigrants not speaking english when they have a poor grasp of english themselves, even then ultimately I don't think it's a viable tactic because unless the racist thinks about why he has a poor grasp of grammar and why an immigrant may not be able to speak english and see a correlation between the 2 then it will just alienate him and make his position more entrenched.


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## barney_pig (Jan 20, 2012)

john x said:


> As far as we know, Hitler didn't speak any English.
> 
> john x


wasn't he in liverpool for a while? (lodging with family, not picked up for a centre half place)


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 20, 2012)

Termite Man - I get that, but to add to the blatant double standard of often very poor use of English in contrast with moaning about the English standards of migrants, I would add general, and often absurdly overblown claims of English patriotism. If I was proud of my country I would make a very good effort to improve on the use of the language, especially as the English language has the largest vocabulary in the world and could thus be argued to be the most versatile. That a main difference between me and many of my detractors here I think. Yet they have not spoken to that point once to my knowledge.

Again: It is ironic. Irony is a founding block of humour. The EDL are absurd. That too is funny. It needn't be about spelling, syntax etc.

I won't link, but there is a thread on their own forum where they are blathering about building their petition to ban the UAF. On it the claim is again made, as it often is that David Cameron "sponsors" the UAF. How anyone can not find that kind of claim funny escapes me.


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## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2012)

He does.


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## barney_pig (Jan 20, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I won't link, but there is a thread on their own forum where they are blathering about building their petition to ban the UAF. On it the claim is again made, as it often is that David Cameron "sponsors" the UAF. How anyone can not find that kind of claim funny escapes me.


http://uaf.org.uk/about/founding-signatories/
hilarious


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## butchersapron (Jan 20, 2012)

And no madrigals needed. Just Facts.


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## Red Storm (Jan 20, 2012)

> *Get rid of all the immigrants! Send them all back! NFSE GSTQ!​*



Current EDL FB status. I don't think I've ever seen one like this on there before.


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## emanymton (Jan 20, 2012)

Christ that list is so old it still has Luciana Burger as NUS, and some of those unions don't even exist any more!!!


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## Ranbay (Jan 20, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Current EDL FB status. I don't think I've ever seen one like this on there before.



where is that one? this is they one why have up now, not sure why they would post this? anyone? lol



> *The law
> WARNING- Any person and/or institution and/or Agent and/or Agency of any governmental structure including but not limited to the British Government also using or monitoring/using this website or any of its associated websites, you do NOT have my permission to utilize any of my profile information nor any of the content contained herein including, but not limited to my photos, and/or comments... made about my photos or any other "picture" art posted on my profile. You are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any other action against me with regard to this profile and the contents herein. The foregoing prohibitions also apply to your employee(s), agent(s), student(s) or any personnel under your direction or control. The contents of this profile are private and legally privileged and confidential information, and the violation of my personal privacy is punishable by law.
> 
> It is recommended that other members post a similar notice to this or you may copy and paste this one. Thank you............*


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 20, 2012)

blimey. my apols. I was reading the claim to be money based, but still. My bad.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 20, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> where is that one? this is they one why have up now, not sure why they would post this? anyone? lol



I think its on a fake page actually. Appols


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## Ranbay (Jan 20, 2012)

the fake one has more likes than the real one


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## malatesta32 (Jan 21, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> There is nothing funny about this. If anyone says it is funny they will only make neutral people more likely to become racist. Or something.
> 
> _English Defence League - London Region_
> 
> _So many have said the EDL is a dying matter, done and dusted, over and out. Well I for one am going to say BOLLOCKS you blind uneducated mugs, because the EDL are only just beginning. Well under 3 years old were still one of the youngest most inexperienced street armys to be recognized world wide, and all the problems that have occured and still will occur ar__e part of any successful organisation and pave the way to a bigger and stronger which in our case is an EDL than ever before. A good ultrapreneur if your organisation is a profitable one, will be the difference between £1000s and £1000000s and a good Teacher is the difference between good grades and none, It really is that simple and the best thing is that as all the people that jump ship during difficult times do nothing but generate the respected individuals still in support into a more hands on operational position, In which eventually turns into a genuine and trustworthy team which will achieve so much more than their predecessors did because for them the only way is forward and previous mistakes are easily avoided. The year 2012 has started absolutely superb, and is going to be the year that people start to realise that the EDL are not going anywhere and more importantly are growing stronger than ever by laying more roots and generating their own public media by way of their own actions in many more areas will directly put us THE ENGLISH DEFENCE LEAGUE in to a new era and chapter of what is and going to be around FOREVER. (5)_



they are seriously delusional if they think 2012 has started off well! barking, whitechapel, arrests, splits, dewsbury, stoke etc - if thats a good start whats a crap one? and what the dickens is an 'ultrappraneur?'


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## Blagsta (Jan 21, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> where is that one? this is they one why have up now, not sure why they would post this? anyone? lol


That's Freemen on the Land shit.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 21, 2012)

refers to 'former football hooligan' mr tommy. err... think he still is one given his conviction last year.
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/i...across-europe-to-hold-far-right-rally-in.html


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## john x (Jan 21, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> they are seriously delusional if they think 2012 has started off well! barking, whitechapel, arrests, splits, dewsbury, stoke etc - if thats a good start whats a crap one? and what the dickens is an 'ultrappraneur?'


You forgot the 10 people who turned up to the US Embassy yesterday to demand the right of US soldiers to 'urinate on Muslims'.

And even then they still managed to get one person arrested.

john x


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## Luther Blissett (Jan 21, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> That's Freemen on the Land shit.


 Oh noes! Not that again!


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## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2012)

Awesome turn out for the demo on Friday... needs more dragons and shit.


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## Red Storm (Jan 22, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Awesome turn out for the demo on Friday... needs more dragons and shit.



Can't believe they spent money on that! Bet it wasn't cheap!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

Curiously the banner says they are "anti islamic" despite the protests of many an EDLer, including Saint Tommy, that they are only against "militant islam".

And it talks about sending it back to the dark ages. Hang on, what's the prime piece of imagery towards the left? Why, 'tis a medieval knight. What a relief there's nothing funny about being so glaringly fuckwitted.

Not to speak of the heraldry and latin motto of their own logo. The motto is Constantine's - a man who did more to discredit the true nature of Christianity than many. Not that many of them would know that. It is thought more likely they got it off playing Assassins Creed.

Oops. a bit of reference to history. Apologies to self elected inquisitors who may decide that the working class are too ignorant to be anything but alienated. I've probably just created 10 more racists out of thin air.


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## Gmart (Jan 22, 2012)

I don't see why not speaking the language of the country you emigrate too is an issue. I live in China and my Chinese is terrible, but do they get upset? No. They realise that I am peaceful and am prepared to work hard as a temporary part of their society. The system is clear enough for me to function without the language though it is easier if I learn at least a few characters. I spend money in their economy and there should be no problem with this in any country. If they don't want me to be here then they are free to ask me to leave.

I think the EDL is a simplistic reaction to the powerlessness they feel and the disconnect too of 'their' culture in relation to other cultures they identify around them. This 'Us & Them' paradigm is well-documented, and we are in fact all the same, but it is easy to fall into such simplistic separations. Easy answers in contrast to a complicated world.


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## kenny g (Jan 22, 2012)

There is about ten of them and at least 3 are probably coppers. You can't really generalise anything from that.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Curiously the banner says they are "anti islamic" despite the protests of many an EDLer, including Saint Tommy, that they are only against "militant islam".
> 
> And it talks about sending it back to the dark ages. Hang on, what's the prime piece of imagery towards the left? Why, 'tis a medieval knight. What a relief there's nothing funny about being so glaringly fuckwitted.
> 
> ...



You don't get it do you?


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

they know.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> they know.



What do they know frogwoman? That they are supposed to only be against militant islam? That it looks daft to use medieval and older imagary when denouncing islam for being "dark ages"? Or about the conversion vision of constantine?



SpineyNorman said:


> You don't get it do you?



It's true I don't get that it is anti working class to credit the working class with a fair degree of intelligence and knowledge. But then I only just found out that we have always been at war with Eastasia. I guess it must be all that life experience of being working class, living and working among the working class. I am waiting for Butchers to organise a showtrial for me as it happens.

Please note Butch: I can't do Thursday (Kapital reading group) or Friday (trip to some opera).


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

they know what those symbols represent and they haven't got them from computer games.


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## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2012)

http://englishdefenceleague.org/urgent-appeal-for-help/



> *Next month sees the long awaited CH4 Dispatches programme that has been filmed over the course of a year.*
> As a result we anticipate a huge wave of interest in the English defence League and also an enormous surge in Internet traffic and activity. In order to be prepared for that increase in interest and traffic we need to prepare for it and be ready when it comes.
> *The last thing we want is for hundreds of thousands or even millions of potential new supporters to hit our website only to find that it is offline due to sheer weight of traffic!*
> We *can* solve that issue now by putting extra servers in place and hiring extra engineers and specialists that can ensure that the website stays online. In order to do that, though – we will need funds.
> ...


----------



## Badgers (Jan 22, 2012)

Millions of new supporters  

Fucking idiots


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2012)

Tommy needs new coat and coke


----------



## Badgers (Jan 22, 2012)

What is the Dispatches programme?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2012)

I think they think that everyone with think that they think the "right" way or something.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It's true I don't get that it is anti working class to credit the working class with a fair degree of intelligence and knowledge. But then I only just found out that we have always been at war with Eastasia. I guess it must be all that life experience of being working class, living and working among the working class. I am waiting for Butchers to organise a showtrial for me as it happens.



Nothing to do with "intelligence" as you well know. It's about you having a go at them for their grammar etc. rather than their views. It might not fit with your liberal fantasy of everyone having the same level of access to knowledge but the fact is that illiteracy is higher among the working class than among the other economic strata. This is unsurprising to anyone with a basic grasp on reality - if you have to spend much of your life just keeping your head above water you don't get the same chance to educate yourself as those who don't. Equally, lack of resources means that, even if you had the time, many educational channels are simply not available to you.

And so, when people see the likes of you making a big thing about bad grammar they think (as I do) "hang on a minute, their views might be repugnant, but in taking the piss out of them for their bad grammar, he's taking the piss out of me for mine" (or my friends, family, etc. for theirs). I have good mates who can hardly read or write. None of them are racist. Do you honestly think they'll just think, "it's ok, he's taking the piss out of illiteracy but only because they're racist - yes he's saying people with bad grammar are thick but he doesn't mean me" or might they think, "their views might be repugnant but he's not just taking the piss out of them - he's taking the piss out of me too."

It's not about abstract principle. It's about what's conducive to the advancement of your political ends and what's counter-productive. Your approach is the latter, and all your claims about being a working class teacher don't make the slightest bit of difference.

Nobody is saying that you're "making racists" but what you are doing is making sure people won't want to join anything that you, or those who use your arguments, are involved with. You're not making racists but you are putting people off antiracism. I know for a fact I'd never want to work with you because, and only because, of this. And if, unlike me, these people haven't met real antiracists they may well assume (perfectly reasonably) that we're all like you. So although they're against racism, they will not get involved because you make us all look like sneering liberal cunts.

And the way you assume people with low levels of literacy must be unintelligent is revealing. You completely ignore the differing levels of access to education between the working and middle classes (and that's ignoring conditions like dyslexia). But that's cos you're a liberal and so class doesn't matter - we're all just individuals and our educational attainment depends only on our intelligence and application, maaan.


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

i would have thought its just basic common sense that people who are poorer would have less access to education and other opportunities? there's also the whole concept of the self fulfilling prophecy as well (ie kids with certain names being thought to be thick by teachers).


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Nothing to do with "intelligence" as you well know. It's about you having a go at them for their grammar etc. rather than their views. It might not fit with your liberal fantasy of everyone having the same level of access to knowledge but the fact is that illiteracy is higher among the working class than among the other economic strata. This is unsurprising to anyone with a basic grasp on reality - if you have to spend much of your life just keeping your head above water you don't get the same chance to educate yourself as those who don't. Equally, lack of resources means that, even if you had the time, many educational channels are simply not available to you.
> 
> And so, when people see the likes of you making a big thing about bad grammar they think (as I do) "hang on a minute, their views might be repugnant, but in taking the piss out of them for their bad grammar, he's taking the piss out of me for mine" (or my friends, family, etc. for theirs). I have good mates who can hardly read or write. None of them are racist. Do you honestly think they'll just think, "it's ok, he's taking the piss out of illiteracy but only because they're racist - yes he's saying people with bad grammar are thick but he doesn't mean me" or might they think, "their views might be repugnant but he's not just taking the piss out of them - he's taking the piss out of me too."
> 
> ...



Yep.  Feeds back into family, friends, neighbours etc.   Yeah, it's all fine slagging off and sniggering at the literacy (or lack thereof) of certain EDL members, but it's just going to show up the 'us' and 'them,' the middle class wanker on the outside looking in.  Anti-racist people who nevertheless know all too well through personal experience, or that of their loved ones, friends etc, who struggled with those same class-based, economically generated problems.

Same here as well mate.  Work with a lad who's reading skills are let's say, not good.  And that isn't because he's thick either.  A poor, hard, and chaotic upbringing.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

yep.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> they know what those symbols represent and they haven't got them from computer games.



Thanks for clarifying. Aspects at the top may know where the motto comes from, I doubt a survey of supporters would receive a majority of correct answers very much more than it would recieve a cogent analysis of the theological outcomes of the Council of Nicea.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Nothing to do with "intelligence" as you well know. It's about you having a go at them for their grammar etc. rather than their views. It might not fit with your liberal fantasy of everyone having the same level of access to knowledge but the fact is that illiteracy is higher among the working class than among the other economic strata. This is unsurprising to anyone with a basic grasp on reality - if you have to spend much of your life just keeping your head above water you don't get the same chance to educate yourself as those who don't. Equally, lack of resources means that, even if you had the time, many educational channels are simply not available to you.
> 
> And so, when people see the likes of you making a big thing about bad grammar they think (as I do) "hang on a minute, their views might be repugnant, but in taking the piss out of them for their bad grammar, he's taking the piss out of me for mine" (or my friends, family, etc. for theirs). I have good mates who can hardly read or write. None of them are racist. Do you honestly think they'll just think, "it's ok, he's taking the piss out of illiteracy but only because they're racist - yes he's saying people with bad grammar are thick but he doesn't mean me" or might they think, "their views might be repugnant but he's not just taking the piss out of them - he's taking the piss out of me too."
> 
> ...



First, I don't assume that low levels of literacy indicate low levels of intelligence. My comments with regards to history were not about literacy. Perhaps I should have said "knowledge" though the inquisition may have picked out a problem with that as well.

There are plenty of examples of societies where working class people routinely prided themselves on good levels of literacy, culture and general knowledge despite having to keep their heads above water.

I refuse top believe that being working class per se

I have repeatedly said that the levels of literacy among the archetypal EDL frother are far below the average for the working class. That is based on many years actual experience working in the field with age ranges from 11 to 60+. And I understand a fair deal about dyslexia too, not least with having a dyslexic wife and being dyspraxic myself.

Again, repeatedly I have stated that what is funny about EDL being so often dire in literacy use is not the illiteracy itself, but the fact that they claim to be an "English" Defence League. It's fucking risible and I am not going to say so out of some desire to infantalise or patronise the working class in general.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

*Spineynorman*

First, I don't assume that low levels of literacy indicate low levels of intelligence. My comments with regards to history were not about literacy. Perhaps I should have said "knowledge" though the inquisition may have picked out a problem with that as well. But intelligence is the ability to discriminate from and between different pieces of information, generally in a reasoned way. This is not something the EDL seem to have an overall gift for.

If you really wish to assume I think "unintelligence" synonymous with low literacy levels that would say more about you than me.

There are plenty of examples of societies where working class people routinely prided themselves on achieving good levels of literacy, culture and general knowledge despite having to keep their heads above water.

I have repeatedly said that the levels of literacy among the archetypal EDL frother are far below the average for the working class. That is based on many years actual experience working in the field with age ranges from 11 to 60+. And I understand a fair deal about dyslexia too, not least through having a dyslexic wife and being dyspraxic myself.

Again, repeatedly I have stated that what is funny about EDL being so often dire in literacy use is not the illiteracy itself, but the fact that they claim to be an "English" Defence League. It's fucking risible. Their hate and disgusting ignorant politics make them fair game for humour,  and I am not going to shy away from saying so out of some desire to infantalise or patronise the working class in general.


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

You have no idea how much of a cock you look.


----------



## laptop (Jan 22, 2012)

Anyway, any word on this _Dispatches_?

I looked, and found only previous editions - many of which had the EDL wetting their pants about thousands of fresh meatheads, too...


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Aspects at the top may know where the motto comes from, I doubt a survey of supporters would receive a majority of correct answers very much more than it would recieve a cogent analysis of the theological outcomes of the Council of Nicea.



how many church people who you found at the sunday service would be able to give you a cogent analysis of the same?and even if they can't that's not the point.


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> *Spineynorman*
> 
> First, I don't assume that low levels of literacy indicate low levels of intelligence. My comments with regards to history were not about literacy. Perhaps I should have said "knowledge" though the inquisition may have picked out a problem with that as well. But intelligence is the ability to discriminate from and between different pieces of information, generally in a reasoned way. This is not something the EDL seem to have an overall gift for.
> 
> ...



i hate the edl fash as well. but going on about spelling and so on, how does that do any good? you seem to be fixated on it. this is why i got so fed up of these "expose" type groups on facebook, they've got nothing to do with fighting the fash it's all "look how stupid so and so is" and "omg an edl member said something racist". Of course they are going to say racist stuff when they are in a racist organisation. tell me what you're going to do about it. as for not knowing/discriminating between different pieces of information - who here can say they're the best at it. loads of people don't know how to discriminate against sources etc and often tend to believe what they are told. including me at times.

you're not attacking their ideas, you're not attacking the divisive roles they have in communities - communities where even the people who think theyre scum and want nothing to do with them frequently have similar low levels of literacy and undiagnosed conditions such as dyslexia etc. you're just saying "LOL their spelling is shit" - well so what.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 22, 2012)

laptop said:


> Anyway, any word on this _Dispatches_?
> 
> I looked, and found only previous editions - many of which had the EDL wetting their pants about thousands of fresh meatheads, too...



They seem to think it's going to do them wonders, but as you say it's not the kind of show that goes, "look how cool these people are, you should join them"


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

there's a dangerous misconception that the fash are all stupid and haven't thought about their positions and politics. it just isn't true.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

*Frogwoman*

You may find it boring to deride bad English from an English Defence League, fuckwitted wanton hate-filled ignorance or flat out racism. That's cool. It doesn't make it anti working class or out of order to do so. With respect you have no idea what work I or others on the likes of Expose do in our communities. We certainly do attack their ideas, it's not exactly a stretch either.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> how many church people who you found at the sunday service would be able to give you a cogent analysis of the same?



That says alot about orthodox Christianity. The point is that they claim to be defending English and Christian culture with scant evidence of knowing about either. It's stupid and offensive and it has *diggidy fuck all* to do with class, unless you think the working class are predisposed to such ignorance. I happen not to.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That says alot about orthodox Christianity...



What does it say about orthodox christianity? What is orthodox christianity?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That says alot about orthodox Christianity. The point is that they claim to be defending English and Christian culture with scant evidence of knowing about either. It's stupid and offensive and it has *diggidy fuck all* to do with class, unless you think the working class are predisposed to such ignorance. I happen not to.


Yes, that's the comparison. And you're very quiet on the similarities.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> First, I don't assume that low levels of literacy indicate low levels of intelligence. My comments with regards to history were not about literacy. Perhaps I should have said "knowledge" though the inquisition may have picked out a problem with that as well.



You do - it's implicit in everything you have written in this little back and forth.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> There are plenty of examples of societies where working class people routinely prided themselves on good levels of literacy, culture and general knowledge despite having to keep their heads above water.



Has anyone denied this? But the impediments to gaining this knowledge, to accessing education, are very real. Even in this context it is still more difficult for the working class than it is for the middle class. Again, I'm astonished that I have to point this out to someone as clearly superior and enlightened as you.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I refuse top believe that being working class per se



Err... ok. Maybe it's not just the EDL element within the swinish multitude that has problems with the English language?



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I have repeatedly said that the levels of literacy among the archetypal EDL frother are far below the average for the working class. That is based on many years actual experience working in the field with age ranges from 11 to 60+. And I understand a fair deal about dyslexia too, not least with having a dyslexic wife and being dyspraxic myself.



This may come as a surprise to you taffboy, but roughly half of the working class is below the average for the working class when it comes to literacy. That's sort of how averages work. And I quite explicitly stated that I was ignoring those conditions, so why you had to reveal this great personal knowledge, inaccesible to the rest of us (you have a great deal of that don't you...) is a mystery.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Again, repeatedly I have stated that what is funny about EDL being so often dire in literacy use is not the illiteracy itself, but the fact that they claim to be an "English" Defence League. It's fucking risible and I am not going to say so out of some desire to infantalise or patronise the working class in general.



Again, I didn't ought to have to point this out to one so learned as you, but the motivation behind an action has no bearing whatsoever on its consequences.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> there's a dangerous misconception that the fash are all stupid and haven't thought about their positions and politics. it just isn't true.



It's plainly counter-productive.  Either themselves, or people who know the kind of man/woman with the same articulacy as Mr Muslamic Rayguns (I do), but who aren't like that in beliefs and outlook, are going to avoid you like the plague, or deliberately adopt a position opposed to yours, just to piss you off and get you out of the way.  It will  show up the gulf in wealth and opportunity and alienate good, decent people that are, you know, _those_ poor and uneducated types.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 22, 2012)

Why the need to produce a second post with all the same stuff in it, with a couple of added extras thrown in?



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> *Spineynorman*
> 
> First, I don't assume that low levels of literacy indicate low levels of intelligence. My comments with regards to history were not about literacy. Perhaps I should have said "knowledge" though the inquisition may have picked out a problem with that as well. But intelligence is the ability to discriminate from and between different pieces of information, generally in a reasoned way. This is not something the EDL seem to have an overall gift for.



Dealt with already.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> If you really wish to assume I think "unintelligence" synonymous with low literacy levels that would say more about you than me.



Well you do appear to be claiming that anyone who points out the uncontroversial fact that literacy levels among the w/c are lower than among the m/c is "infantilising" the working class, claiming we're all stupid. That would suggest that there is a connection in your mind, even as you try to kid yourself that there isn't.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> There are plenty of examples of societies where working class people routinely prided themselves on achieving good levels of literacy, culture and general knowledge despite having to keep their heads above water.



Dealt with.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I have repeatedly said that the levels of literacy among the archetypal EDL frother are far below the average for the working class. That is based on many years actual experience working in the field with age ranges from 11 to 60+. And I understand a fair deal about dyslexia too, not least through having a dyslexic wife and being dyspraxic myself.



Dealt with.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Again, repeatedly I have stated that what is funny about EDL being so often dire in literacy use is not the illiteracy itself, but the fact that they claim to be an "English" Defence League. It's fucking risible.



Dealt with.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Their hate and disgusting ignorant politics make them fair game for humour



Err... you think I'm opposed to your sneering because I somehow feel empathy for them? That I don't think they deserve it? Fuck off. You claimed that it was productive from an antifascist POV to do what you're doing, not that they deserved it because of their political behaviour. Just to be clear, if it wasn't utterly counter-productive, I'd have no problem with it. Frankly I couldn't give a shit what happens to them; they're scum.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> , and I am not going to shy away from saying so out of some desire to infantalise or patronise the working class in general.



And now you're reduced to using the arguments employed by libertarians, Tories and other such scum against a class based analysis. Anyone who points out the obvious, demonstrable fact that working class people face greater impediments to education than others is "patronising and infantilising" them. Just as anyone who claims that it's harder for someone from a w/c background to be successful in business is "infantilising and patronising" them.

I'd like to know taffboy, am I patronising and infantilising myself? Only I grew up on a council estate, didn't do very well at school, left at 16 to become a pipe fitter. I didn't have a single academic qualification before I reached 30. And even then there was a great deal of luck involved. I had opportunities that had previously been denied to me and will continue to be denied to vast swathes of the population. But what do I know? I'm not a teacher after all.

It's all well and good struggling against these inequalities, pointing out that were it not for these impediments we'd do at least as well as everyone else. But when you try and claim that the inequalities produced by these impediments don't exist then, rather than struggling against inequality, capitalism, the state or whatever, your struggle is instead against reality itself.

And that's why you're a liberal. No place for structure in your world view - it's all about individual agency. You'll be talking about the end of class and likening "classism" to racism and sexism before you know it.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jan 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> And that's why you're a liberal. No place for structure in your world view



Pretty much.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman

I ain's sure all those "dealt withs"have been, but anyhow...

_"And now you're reduced to using the arguments employed by libertarians, Tories and other such scum against a class based analysis. Anyone who points out the obvious, demonstrable fact that working class people face greater impediments to education than others is "patronising and infantilising" them. Just as anyone who claims that it's harder for someone from a w/c background to be successful in business is "infantilising and patronising" them."_

Which kind of proves my 1st point.

_It's all well and good struggling against these inequalities, pointing out that were it not for these impediments we'd do at least as well as everyone else. But when you try and claim that the inequalities produced by these impediments don't exist then, rather than struggling against inequality, capitalism, the state or whatever, your struggle is instead against reality itself._

Oh, I recognise inequalities. I just don't see them as an excuse for fuckwit racism. After all there is plenty of fuckwit racism in the middle and upper classes as well.

_And that's why you're a liberal. No place for structure in your world view - it's all about individual agency._

Just because I may I think individuals would bear some respnsibility for being subliterate hypocritical drooling bigots, doesn't mean I don't think structures encourage racism and hate. But there is no reason for the working class to be more predisposed to wards it.

_You'll be talking about the end of class and likening "classism" to racism and sexism before you know it._

I don't really have to. Someone can make it up that I did anyway, although the use of the term "middle class" as a pejorative has always interested me. I started a thread on it a few years back, got flamed for it and the attitudes haven't really moved on.

As said up thread, why so many give heed to Marx and Engels when they were middle class is quite a riddle.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> It's plainly counter-productive. Either themselves, or people who know the kind of man/woman with the same articulacy as Mr Muslamic Rayguns



I think muslamic rayguns man was on valium at the time FWIW.


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## Termite Man (Jan 22, 2012)

This thread is getting boring now, sneering at the poor language is pointless because a) the EDLers won't suddenly think 'my English is shit I should lay off Islam' and b) it makes you look like a smug twat who can't counter the arguments so you focus on the language


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> As said up thread, why so many give heed to Marx and Engels when they were middle class is quite a riddle.



To who? Why is it a riddle to you? They expressed clear pro-w/c views and acted on them in various ways over 5 decades of 'serious work'. What sort of idiot rejects people because of their class background taffers?


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I think muslamic rayguns man was on valium at the time FWIW.



And beer.  But my point, although slightly impaired, still stands.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/8agban

Go easy on these guys. That's what being anti liberal means. They could be working class after all.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> SpineyNorman
> 
> I ain's sure all those "dealt withs"have been, but anyhow...



They have. Look at the post prior to the one you quoted - you made two almost identical posts, the second with a few bit added in. I responded to the first, then only to the points I had not addressed in the second.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> _"And now you're reduced to using the arguments employed by libertarians, Tories and other such scum against a class based analysis. Anyone who points out the obvious, demonstrable fact that working class people face greater impediments to education than others is "patronising and infantilising" them. Just as anyone who claims that it's harder for someone from a w/c background to be successful in business is "infantilising and patronising" them."_
> 
> Which kind of proves my 1st point.



How? You're using the same arguments Tories use and so that proves your first point? Even by your standards that's utterly bizarre.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> _It's all well and good struggling against these inequalities, pointing out that were it not for these impediments we'd do at least as well as everyone else. But when you try and claim that the inequalities produced by these impediments don't exist then, rather than struggling against inequality, capitalism, the state or whatever, your struggle is instead against reality itself._
> 
> Oh, I recognise inequalities. I just don't see them as an excuse for fuckwit racism. After all there is plenty of fuckwit racism in the middle and upper classes as well.



Of course they bear responsibility for their views, who said otherwise? Who is "excusing their racism"? I'm not against it because I feel sorry for EDLers or think that because they're working class they should be allowed to get away with being racist. I'm against it because of its wider consequences. If there were no wider consequences I wouldn't have a problem, I've already told you this though so I'm not sure why we need to go over it again.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> _And that's why you're a liberal. No place for structure in your world view - it's all about individual agency._
> 
> Just because I may I think individuals would bear some respnsibility for being subliterate hypocritical drooling bigots, doesn't mean I don't think structures encourage racism and hate. But there is no reason for the working class to be more predisposed to wards it.



What? Now you seem to be quoting my posts, then replying to posts that exist only in your mind. So I'll say it again, this time in bold so it might sink in: *I'm not against it because I feel sorry for EDLers or think that because they're working class they should be allowed to get away with being racist. I'm against it because of its wider consequences. If there were no wider consequences I wouldn't have a problem.*



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> _You'll be talking about the end of class and likening "classism" to racism and sexism before you know it._
> 
> I don't really have to. Someone can make it up that I did anyway, although the use of the term "middle class" as a pejorative has always interested me. I started a thread on it a few years back, got flamed for it and the attitudes haven't really moved on.
> 
> As said up thread, why so many give heed to Marx and Engels when they were middle class is quite a riddle.



It's not about being middle class, it's about what people do. I have middle class friends, some of them are among my closest political allies. One of them happens to have posted on this thread in agreement with what I'm saying here. It's about attitudes that exist within the middle class. A lack of understanding of the barriers we face, an attitude you're displaying here. Marx and Engels never did that, and even if they had, would that invalidate the useful insights they had? I've also found Machiavelli useful in understanding politics and he was a right twat.


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## Deareg (Jan 22, 2012)

Haven't really been following this debate but my own penny's worth is, many working class people leave school with sub standard education, myself included, of those of us who become politically active, on the left we tend to read and debate a lot so we end up educating ourselves and our use of the language improves, on the right they are largely content with with hating and intimidating those who they deem to be not with them, getting drunk and tattooed and rarely try to use debates to further there beliefs so there use of English does not improve, so to cut a long story short, fuck the dumb bastards.

And I am aware that my usage of the words there and their are usually wrong.


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> http://twitpic.com/8agban
> 
> Go easy on these guys. That's what being anti liberal means. They could be working class after all.


Who has ever said any such thing? People have expressed concern that a person in a trusted position has such an hamfisted insensitive understanding of how class operates. You seem proud of it even. And further, that this political idiocy leads the responses to the EDL in an inevitably counter-productive way. I feel sorry for any w/c kids you taught frankly. Your sneering at them probably destroyed what little confidence they mustered up to dare turn up to your (content unspecified) classes - ot they just laughed at you. As in the school as in the political world.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> http://twitpic.com/8agban
> 
> Go easy on these guys. That's what being anti liberal means. They could be working class after all.


 
What's class got to do with it.  It's just about the use of (or adequate ability to use) language, right?  Oh wait ...


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## Blagsta (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> http://twitpic.com/8agban
> 
> Go easy on these guys. That's what being anti liberal means. They could be working class after all.



Talk about missing the point!


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## manny-p (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> http://twitpic.com/8agban
> 
> Go easy on these guys. That's what being anti liberal means. They could be working class after all.



Looks like the educated teacher needs to fucking wise up.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> http://twitpic.com/8agban
> 
> Go easy on these guys. That's what being anti liberal means. They could be working class after all.



You're doing it on purpose aren't you? Just to be clear, you can kill them if you want. I don't care. It's how your words and actions impact on people outside the EDL that I care about.


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Haven't really been following this debate but my own penny's worth is, many working class people leave school with sub standard education, myself included, of those of us who become politically active, on the left we tend to read and debate a lot so we end up educating ourselves and our use of the language improves, on the right they are largely content with with hating and intimidating those who they deem to be not with them, getting drunk and tattooed and rarely try to use debates to further there beliefs so there use of English does not improve, so to cut a long story short, fuck the dumb bastards.
> 
> And I am aware that my usage of the words there and their are usually wrong.


Fuck the dumb bastards but don't demand that the rest of the w/c have a knowledge of Elizabethan madrigals before they meet your standards of what counts as proper english person and so have their concerns and the things that drive them counted. I know that you don't but i know that this is where these green party loon who believes in pre-historic spacemen's logic lies.


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

This is the thing with liberal fools like taffboi - it's all about their individual disgust and the need to express it in public. Nothing political. Nothing dynamic, nothing about how society works, nothing about the collective nature of stuff. All about them and their need to appear pure.


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## Deareg (Jan 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Fuck the dumb bastards but don't demand that the rest of the w/c have a knowledge of Elizabethan madrigals before they meet your standards of what counts as proper english person and so have their concerns and the things that drive them counted. I know that you don't but i know that this is where these green party loon who believes in pre-historic spacemen's logic lies.


Maybe I should have followed the debate first.


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## manny-p (Jan 22, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Maybe I should have followed *the debat* first.


 you are clearly edl


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Maybe I should have followed the debat first.


Wouldn't bother mate


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## Deareg (Jan 22, 2012)

manny-p said:


> you are clearly edl


You were quick off the mark.


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## john x (Jan 22, 2012)

Badgers said:


> What is the Dispatches programme?


Channel 4's Dispatches, has been following the EDL for the last year. They are getting very excited about it (it goes to air next month) because I suspect they have been told by the producers that it will 'show their side' of the story.

As someone pointed out earlier, Dispatches usually do exposures, so what they are expecting, I've no idea. The best that they can hope for is that the programme goes easy on them and says that they are largely a bunch of disenfranchised fools, who see immigrants as the cause of all their problems.

Either way, I very much doubt they will need to 'buy' another server to cope with the 'million plus' enquiries the morning after the programme.

john x


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Fuck the dumb bastards but don't demand that the rest of the w/c have a knowledge of Elizabethan madrigals before they meet your standards of what counts as proper english person and so have their concerns and the things that drive them counted. I know that you don't but i know that this is where these green party loon who believes in pre-historic spacemen's logic lies.



Butchers. The Elizabethan Madrigals thing was an example of English culture. The EDL claim to defend English culture. I don't believe many of them know  a fucking thing about it. It was an example and clearly so. But twisting words is something you have form on. You think it is anti working class to criticise double standards of working class leaders on the conditions of the working classes who make branded sportswear. Speaking up for the working class is a sure fire indicator of hating the working class. Criticising ignorant racists is liberal if they are working class. Well you don't in all likelyhood think these things, but you will act like you think them to make some contorted point. Is that typical of people who back the IWCA?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This is the thing with liberal fools like taffboi - it's all about their individual disgust and the need to express it in public. Nothing political. Nothing dynamic, nothing about how society works, nothing about the collective nature of stuff. All about them and their need to appear pure.



I've spoken to all of those things here elsewhere, though "dynamic" is more subjective. Liberals let racists off the hook with excuses about stuff like class.


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Butchers. The Elizabethan Madrigals thing was an example of English culture. The EDL claim to defend English culture. I don't believe many of them know a fucking thing about it. It was an example and clearly so. But twisting words is something you have form on. You think it is anti working class to criticise double standards of working class leaders on the conditions of the working classes who make branded sportswear. Speaking up for the working class is a sure fire indicator of hating the working class. Criticising ignorant racists is liberal if they are working class. Well you don't in all likelyhood think these things, but you will act like you think them to make some contorted point. Is that typical of people who back the IWCA?


I have zero idea what you've just tried to say to me.


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I've spoken to all of those things here elsewhere, though "dynamic" is more subjecive. Liberals let racists off the hook with excuses about stuff like class.


Do you? Where have you let people off the hook about racism by mentioning class? If you mean someone else, if you mean me - then where and how. Names, places, you know the drill.


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> As said up thread, why so many give heed to Marx and Engels when they were middle class is quite a riddle.



because it's not where you come from - it's where you're going.


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

...a large part of it is about where you come from, most people seem to have manged to get beyond that in treating both the EDL and Marks and engles (TM), but not taffboi...


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Do you? Where have you let people off the hook about racism by mentioning class?



That's a very smart technique. You must teach me how to use it some time.

"If you mean someone else, if you mean me - then where and how. Names, places, you know the drill."​Not you so much. You just think it's anti working class to speak up for the working classes who make branded sportswear, but you seem to think only the working classes wear the stuff.​Where have people done it? On this thread.​How? By associating ignorance and racism with being working class. It's weird. .​We are certainly at the point of diminishing returns on this now for all concerned.​


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> ...a large part of it is about where you come from, most people seem to have manged to get beyond that in treating both the EDL and Marks and engles (TM), but not taffboi...



totally - wasn't meaning to say otherwise. i meant the whole answer to the question of why don't people attack marx etc for being middle class ...


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

and (like on the owen jones thread) WHY certain people get into positions of deciding about "culture" etc ...


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That's a very smart technique. You must teach me how to use it some time.
> 
> "If you mean someone else, if you mean me - then where and how. Names, places, you know the drill."​Not you so much. You just think it's anti working class to speak up for the working classes who make branded sportswear, but you seem to think only the working classes wear the stuff.​Where have people done it? On this thread.​How? By associating ignorance and racism with being working class. It's weird. .​We are certainly at the point of diminishing returns on this now for all concerned.​


I don't, i think it's pathetic counter-productive moralising and finger wagging that means nothing beyond making you feel good to attack bob crow for wearing nike when the RMT is under attack. Much like your contributions here. And i think, no, i know, that it displays a wider distaste for not just the w/c, but everyone else - the misanthropy is dripping off you.

No one has associated being w/c with ignorance and racism apart from you, and weirdly you've tied real englishness it to knowledge of some outdated elite cultural form that displays a total contempt for working class history from below and insists its your version of court history. Tell me about the great english victories on foreign soil or something. There's a reason no on knows or cares about madrigals in the EDL or anywhere else - there's two reasons actually - they're shit and they're nothing to do with us and our lifes. Nor, as becomes increasingly evident, do you.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> and (like on the owen jones thread) WHY certain people get into positions of deciding about "culture" etc ...



This?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> and (like on the owen jones thread) WHY certain people get into positions of deciding about "culture" etc ...



Do you think the EDL represent English culture? If so, how?


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

yep


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Do you think the EDL represent English culture? If so, how?



yeah, i'm just a massive racist really.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> This?



I don't have to imagine it. I live it and among it, quite possibly like you. Do you think the white working class are more prone to racism and ignorance than other sections of society?


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> yeah, i'm just a massive racist really.



And massively thick as well.  Don't forget.


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## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Do you think the EDL represent English culture? If so, how?


They represent a part of English culture as do you. Both fucking pointless and squalid. There is no homogeneous english culture made up of court dances and royal sponsored poems (and largely constructed in the 19th century) which you can say is the english culture, or demand that you have knowledge of or not be proper english.

This is where you liberal mugs always end up - in RAF bombers over dresden. For the real england. With billy bragg on the player.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> yeah, i'm just a massive racist really.



It was a serious question. You attacked me for (seemingly) thinking I consider myself a judge of culture. I don't especially, but was wondering if you consider the EDL to be such judges, because I certainly don't. Yet they claim to be. It's laughable. That's why I laugh at them. People on here think I shouldn't laugh because the poor little racists might be working class. Class is a social and economic relationship, not an excuse for bitter ignorant hatred.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't have to imagine it. I live it and among it, quite possibly like you. Do you think the white working class are more prone to racism and ignorance than other sections of society?


how do you mean they're 'prone' to ignorance?


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## frogwoman (Jan 22, 2012)

i don't as it happens. i just think you're not thinking very much. there is a clear link between economic situation and educational attainment (as well as the fact that many measures of "intelligence" and so on are desinged by middle class/upper class men). there is also a link between peoples economic situation and other problems, and more importantly the ability to cope financially etc with those problems when they arise. to put it crudely a rich guy earning millions a year with a massive coke habit will be able to cope far better financially with the consequences of that habit financially than a middle class person or a working class person, who will face being kicked out of their house, not being able to pay the rent, look after their kids, etc etc. the same would obviously go for the effects of that on any kids the person had.

there's also stuff like the self-fulfilling prophecy and teachers making unspoken assumptions about the kids on their names, the way they're dressed etc, which leads them to perhaps punish certain behaviour more severely when it's done by certain kids than by others. the obvious one is race but it is class based as well. i can't believe as a teacher that you did not know about this stuff.


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## butchersapron (Jan 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> People on here think I shouldn't laugh because the poor little racists might be working class. Class is a social and economic relationship, not an excuse for bitter ignorant hatred.



This is your idiocy in a nutshell - 1) no they don't. 2) yes it is, and so then it effects how social prejudices are produced manifested and then reproduced. So back to 1)


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## Pickman's model (Jan 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It was a serious question. You attacked me for (seemingly) thinking I consider myself a judge of culture. I don't especially, but was wondering if you consider the EDL to be such judges, because I certainly don't. Yet they claim to be. It's laughable. That's why I laugh at them. People on here think I shouldn't laugh because the poor little racists might be working class. Class is a social and economic relationship, not an excuse for bitter ignorant hatred.


employment is a social and economic relationship. there's often bitter hatred from the employee for the employer (and vice versa). sadly it's all too often not ignorant. if one particular social and economic relationship can lead to such bile, why do you think class can't or shouldn't? and is ignorant hatred in your opinion better or worse than hatred based on familiarity?


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## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It was a serious question. You attacked me for (seemingly) thinking I consider myself a judge of culture. I don't especially, but was wondering if you consider the EDL to be such judges, because I certainly don't. Yet they claim to be. It's laughable. That's why I laugh at them. People on here think I shouldn't laugh because the poor little racists might be working class. Class is a social and economic relationship, not an excuse for bitter ignorant hatred.



of course i don't consider them a judge of culture. that's not the point. part of it is what is culture and who decides what's cultured or uncultured or even who gets to be in a position to decide this stuff.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't have to imagine it. I live it and among it, quite possibly like you. Do you think the white working class are more prone to racism and ignorance than other sections of society?



I actually do come from such conditions of life. And still live and work among it. I didn't move in from outside. I'm not someone on a civilising mission, looking for rough diamonds to polish. It seems you are really, really, insufferably fucking blind as to just how your approach, and general sneeriness is counter-productive. In attacking the clear lack of education of a few tools, or inadequate access to it, and something which is experienced by others, you're insulting the intelligence of a lot of people.


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## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

Also there's just really obvious stuff with things like the funding of schools, some schools don't have the facilities to deal with kids that need extra help with their reading and writing etc, and especially if that kid is acting up because of a bad situation at home and is simply thought of as "a little twat" or whatever, then what then? or if a kid doesn't attract the teacher's attention in any way (through being especially obviously badly behaved or well-behaved) but is struggling with stuff but is too afraid to ask?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> They represent a part of English culture as do you. Both fucking pointless and squalid. There is no homogeneous english culture made up of court dances and royal sponsored poems (and largely constructed in the 19th century) which you can say is the english culture, or demand that you have knowledge of or not be proper english.
> 
> This is where you liberal mugs always end up - in RAF bombers over dresden. For the real england. With billy bragg on the player.



It's fair and obvious that culture is not homgeneous. The EDL certainly are squalid, you know nearly nothing about me, but if you want to think me squalid and pointless I should bow to your judgement. I am just glad we have such stalwarts as you to make the call. And look where it got us.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 23, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I actually do come such conditions of life. And still live among it. I didn't move in from outside. I'm not someone on a civilising mission, looking for rough diamonds to polish. It seems you are really, really, insufferably fucking blind as to just how your approach, and general sneeriness is counter-productive. In attacking the clear lack of education of a few tools, or inadequate access to it, and something which is experienced by others, you're insulting the intelligence of a lot of people.



I disagree. Most working class people aren't racist or ignorant. In fact middle class people are just likely to be. Any implication that racism and ignorance are a product of being working class is what insults the intelligence of a lot of people. How much more round the houses do you want to go on this? Do you think I consider myself on a civilising mission? Is it backed up by research from the Ministry of Things That Popped Into Your Head?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 23, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> of course i don't consider them a judge of culture. that's not the point. part of it is what is culture and who decides what's cultured or uncultured or even who gets to be in a position to decide this stuff.



They do consider themselves a judge of culture, guardians of it even. It's very funny.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I disagree. Most working class people aren't racist or ignorant. In fact middle class people are just likely to be. Any implication that racism and ignorance are a product of being working class is what insults the intelligence of a lot of people. How much more round the houses do you want to go on this? Do you think I consider myself on a civilising mission? Is it backed up by research from the Ministry of Things That Popped Into Your Head?



I give up.


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## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> They do consider themselves a judge of culture, guardians of it even. It's very funny.



fash saying fash shit shocker.


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## butchersapron (Jan 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It's fair and obvious that culture is not homgeneous. The EDL certainly are squalid, you know nearly nothing about me, but if you want to think me squalid and pointless I should bow to your judgement. I am just glad we have such stalwarts as you to make the call. And look where it got us.


If it's fair and obvious then why and who the hell are you judge other people on their genuine englishness by their knowledge of Elizabethan madrigals? You're playing the same identity politics bollocks as them just in defence of a top down royal england history that wipes out both people like the EDL and people like me and the others who are wasting their time on this thread trying to teach you the very basics of politics.


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## butchersapron (Jan 23, 2012)

He is undecided about pre-historic spacemen - really, and keeps an open mind over over 'related things'. What more do you need to know? I asked you earlier _what_ you taught taffboy, did you answer?


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## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

and also why the fuck do people set such store by the whole idea of "intelligence", i mean really. especially people who say they are against fascism. its something that really annoys me because the whole concept of intelligence is so fucking loaded and so determined by how you do in a test designed in near laboratory conditions by people who have no idea about anyone's life.

i know you're well meaning taffboy but there are loads of fash who believe the same stuff when it comes to intelligence, that you're just thick because you are or don't want to try and fuck any environmental factors that may arise. you're thick because it's innate but it's also your fault for not "trying" hard enough. it's a fucking dangerous way of looking at people. there are fash who look down on edl members for the same reasons you are, that they're not intelligent enough because they don't know enough about the "english culture" (if such a thing exists) and havent read enough evola or spengler. being a fash doesn't mean not fitting in with your idea of what english culture is. i don't think your approach is helpful because you're not proving why their ideas are wrong (nor are those "critics" i mentioned from the right) or why people should not listen to them, you're attacking them for something that's completely irrelevant to it in a content-less, analysis-less way.

laugh at them by all means but don't kid yourself that berating them for bad spelling and lack of knowledge about culture etc is a political strategy.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 23, 2012)

He still thinks we're saying working class people are more prone to racism. I give up. Either he's terminally stupid, doesn't want to understand the points put to him or he's being deliberately dishonest.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 23, 2012)

The last one I suspect.


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## butchersapron (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't think so - people like him are only at home being shining lights amongst the plebian darkness, they can _only_ see bad around them - it's the only way they can make sense of the world, it's not being deliberately stupid/dishonest.


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## Captain Hurrah (Jan 23, 2012)

Just the way he's twisted the words of others, while knowing full well that isn't what they meant.


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## butchersapron (Jan 23, 2012)

Oh that, well he has to in order to sustain any sort of argument. Still not sure he's aware it's happening.


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## audiotech (Jan 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This is where you liberal mugs always end up - in RAF bombers over dresden. For the real england. With billy bragg on the player.



John Lydon on Bragg: "He's the middle classes Coco the clown."


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 23, 2012)

pasty faced plebs eating Greggs pasties


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 23, 2012)

john x said:


> Channel 4's Dispatches, has been following the EDL for the last year. They are getting very excited about it (it goes to air next month) because I suspect they have been told by the producers that it will 'show their side' of the story.
> 
> As someone pointed out earlier, Dispatches usually do exposures, so what they are expecting, I've no idea. The best that they can hope for is that the programme goes easy on them and says that they are largely a bunch of disenfranchised fools, who see immigrants as the cause of all their problems.
> 
> ...



anyway, back at the EDL! ... the EDL have a record of attacking journalists, at tower hamlets alone 1 was squirted with lighter fluid and set on fire and another female journalist was groped. NUJ members have a recorded cases of intimidation and threatened violence against members. hopefully the dispatches team will be making a point of this - with being journalists and that. if intimidation against journalists is not spoken about by journalists then the dispatches team have some explaining to do at their next branch meeting!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I think muslamic rayguns man was on valium at the time FWIW.



the muslamic raygun bloke, who is called ryan, was ridiculed by many and also inspired a lot of 'the left are anti white working class' nonsense from the fash. one of the reasons folk ridiculed him was because he is a fuckwit who didnt have a clue what he was doing there. ask anyone on an anticuts or occupy demo what they are protesting about and they will be able to explain it. young ryan didnt know what he was talking about and was simply there because his mates were all going. it showed edl as a 'terrace fashion,' that folk were going along cos their mates were and that the possibility of a bit of excitement and a dig at the cops/'pakies' (sic) is more likely than at one of their tedious soccer games. so ryan is a fuckit who doesnt know what he is talking about which didnt stop him from talking into the camera - a simple act of vanity that backfired massively. tho he probably enjoyed his 15 minutes anyway!


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the muslamic raygun bloke, who is called ryan, was ridiculed by many and also inspired a lot of 'the left are anti white working class' nonsense from the fash. one of the reasons folk ridiculed him was because he is a fuckwit who didnt have a clue what he was doing there. ask anyone on an anticuts or occupy demo what they are protesting about and they will be able to explain it. young ryan didnt know what he was talking about and was simply there because his mates were all going. it showed edl as a 'terrace fashion,' that folk were going along cos their mates were and that the possibility of a bit of excitement and a dig at the cops/'pakies' (sic) is more likely than at one of their tedious soccer games. so ryan is a fuckit who doesnt know what he is talking about which didnt stop him from talking into the camera - a simple act of vanity that backfired massively. tho he probably enjoyed his 15 minutes anyway!



Again, I don't understand the importance of the ill education? 

He probably was off his tits and in front of a camera for the first time. But that's by the by.

I thought his ideas were about as articulate as those given by members of the Occupy movement, most of whom seem to me not to have a fucking clue. Occupy is far larger embarrassment to the left that muslamic rayguns could ever be.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> ...ask anyone on an anticuts or occupy demo what they are protesting about and they will be able to explain it...



You sure about that? At an anticuts demo I'm sure most would, but probably not all depending on how big it is. And as for occupy... does knowing why you're there include jewish plots for world domination and the idea that the free-born englishman shouldn't have to pay council tax? I reckon there's people at left demos just as clueless as him. Not as funny though, granted. I only wish they were!


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 23, 2012)

Just a quick note in regards to the EDL Leicester Casuals United crowd who threatened to turn up to the UAF meeting in Highfields the other night.

After boasting on their FB about turning up "50 strong" and "making our voices heard", someone pointed out that Highfields was a predominantly Asian area. Noting that if anything kicked off they'd be lucky to leave the community unscathed.

Subsequently they canned the idea, along with deleting all references to the aforementioned plans, chest-beating etc from their Facebook.


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## Red Storm (Jan 23, 2012)

^LOL


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 23, 2012)

I hear the same thing happend in Bristol, there was some antifash in the pub when they got there for the meeting handing out anti EDL flyers... the got scared and left sharpish....


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 23, 2012)

Lol indeed! Bunch of muppets


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the muslamic raygun bloke, who is called ryan, was ridiculed by many and also inspired a lot of 'the left are anti white working class' nonsense from the fash. one of the reasons folk ridiculed him was because he is a fuckwit who didnt have a clue what he was doing there. ask anyone on an anticuts or occupy demo what they are protesting about and they will be able to explain it. young ryan didnt know what he was talking about and was simply there because his mates were all going. it showed edl as a 'terrace fashion,' that folk were going along cos their mates were and that the possibility of a bit of excitement and a dig at the cops/'pakies' (sic) is more likely than at one of their tedious soccer games. so ryan is a fuckit who doesnt know what he is talking about which didnt stop him from talking into the camera - a simple act of vanity that backfired massively. tho he probably enjoyed his 15 minutes anyway!



it also shows a lot about the edl's (predatory) recruitment techniques and that of the fash in general.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 23, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I hear the same thing happend in Bristol, there was some antifash in the pub when they got there for the meeting handing out anti EDL flyers... the got scared and left sharpish....



Aye it's on indymedia


----------



## john x (Jan 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> anyway, back at the EDL! ... the EDL have a record of attacking journalists, at tower hamlets alone 1 was squirted with lighter fluid and set on fire and another female journalist was groped. NUJ members have a recorded cases of intimidation and threatened violence against members. hopefully the dispatches team will be making a point of this - with being journalists and that. if intimidation against journalists is not spoken about by journalists then the dispatches team have some explaining to do at their next branch meeting!



Declaring a 'fatwa' on journalists won't help very much either! 

http://twitpic.com/3nupfl/full

john x


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## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

but it's ok because it's a non-violent fatwa.


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## Fingers (Jan 23, 2012)

[QUOTE]A meeting of the Bristol EDL didn't get off to a flying start (or any start at all for that matter) as they found 30 militant antifascists waiting for them in the Drawbridge pub on St. Augustine's Parade last night. Around 10 visibly nervous EDL members turned up and didn't stay long when they realised they didn't have many friends in the pub. One was overheard on the phone saying "There's about 3​0 of them. They're big. Don't come here." One of the Bristol EDL's players, Chris Pugh arrived fashionably late (like, an hour and a half late!) and stood on his own by the bar looking sheepish and more than a little bit down in the mouth as anti EDL leaflets were distributed around the pub. 2 hours after the supposed start time of the meeting, with the EDL crowd dispersed, we were happy to agree the job was done.The successful occupation of their meeting place by antifascists prevented the local right wing bigots from meeting up as intended and will not have done much for the confidence and self esteem of an organisation already floundering with infighting and lack of direction. It was clear to all involved that for all their big talk and tough guy image, when faced with serious opposition, the EDL, like most fascist groups, back down quicker than you can say "Where have all the fascists gone?!"​[/QUOTE]


----------



## john x (Jan 23, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> but it's ok because it's a non-violent fatwa.


"This FATWA is non-violent but we cant guarantee your safety if you break it, its as simple as that comrades."

(or that of Manchester United fans, eh Jeff? ;-))

john x


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## juice_terry (Jan 23, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Just a quick note in regards to the EDL Leicester Casuals United crowd who threatened to turn up to the UAF meeting in Highfields the other night.
> 
> After boasting on their FB about turning up "50 strong" and "making our voices heard", someone pointed out that Highfields was a predominantly Asian area. Noting that if anything kicked off they'd be lucky to leave the community unscathed.
> 
> Subsequently they canned the idea, along with deleting all references to the aforementioned plans, chest-beating etc from their Facebook.



Reminds me of the time quite a mob of Leicester's "Baby Squad" came unstuck against an AFA contingent after they thought it would be a good idea to attack "a small group of lefties" following a Bloody Sunday march... it certainly was a bloody day for them with the snow turning a lovely shade of red with these Leicester City hardmen strewn all over the place.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 23, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> it also shows a lot about the edl's (predatory) recruitment techniques and that of the fash in general.


absolutely frogs! quantity not quality has always been a fascist worry. look at all the pedophiles, kiddie porn afficionados, drug dealers, criminals and the likes in the bnp and nf. and that doesnt include the hedgerow terrorists, occultists and hitler fans. one of the reasons many new bnp recruits quit is that they are shocked by the hardcore nazism of many of the 'regulars' which disgusts them and they leave quite shocked. look at lee batty barnes!


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## malatesta32 (Jan 23, 2012)

thanks for the repost fingers. thats going in the next 'malatesta' piece!


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## malatesta32 (Jan 23, 2012)

oh anyone got any idea when the dispatches is going out? if i recall, searchlight/lowles etc have worked with dispatches before.


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## malatesta32 (Jan 23, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Again, I don't understand the importance of the ill education?
> 
> He probably was off his tits and in front of a camera for the first time. But that's by the by.
> 
> I thought his ideas were about as articulate as those given by members of the Occupy movement, most of whom seem to me not to have a fucking clue. Occupy is far larger embarrassment to the left that muslamic rayguns could ever be.



storm, the point i want to make is that the EDL are clueless politically. dunno about occupy tho!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 23, 2012)

you got a link for that fingers?


----------



## krink (Jan 23, 2012)

juice_terry said:


> Reminds me of the time quite a mob of Leicester's "Baby Squad" came unstuck against an AFA contingent after they thought it would be a good idea to attack "a small group of lefties" following a Bloody Sunday march... it certainly was a bloody day for them with the snow turning a lovely shade of red with these Leicester City hardmen strewn all over the place.



Are all the BS like that? I ask cos I've known one for years and I've never heard him do/say anything as dodgy as this.


----------



## juice_terry (Jan 23, 2012)

They were then pal , this must have been around '95/96


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> storm, the point i want to make is that the EDL are clueless politically. dunno about occupy tho!



They're not tho are they. As an organisation the have a pretty clear political message: anti Muslim immigration, extremism and in general. So 'politically useless' that theyve been more attractive to working class people than the far-left.

I don't want to get into occupy but it certainly has a much less clear political message. They're just liberals' camping. What do they stand for? Anti-capitalism? Anti-bad capitalism? They produce no solution, no ideas. 

I think those still camping have less of an  idea what their purpose is than the muslamic rayguns chap. He knows he's marching against muslims and immigration with an organisation which is doing the same. More than can be said about the campers and Occupy.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 23, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> They're not tho are they. As an organisation the have a pretty clear political message: anti Muslim immigration, extremism and in general. So 'politically useless' that theyve been more attractive to working class people than the far-left.
> 
> I don't want to get into occupy but it certainly has a much less clear political message. They're just liberals' camping. What do they stand for? Anti-capitalism? Anti-bad capitalism? They produce no solution, no ideas.
> 
> I think those still camping have less of an idea what their purpose is than the muslamic rayguns chap. He knows he's marching against muslims and immigration with an organisation which is doing the same. More than can be said about the campers and Occupy.


i don't entirely agree re occupy but i think you've got a good point re the lack of coherency in the left's "message". (mind you the same could be said for the fash grouplets as well!)


----------



## john x (Jan 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> oh anyone got any idea when the dispatches is going out? if i recall, searchlight/lowles etc have worked with dispatches before.


The week after the Leicester demo, I believe. Don't know what date exactly.

I don't think it will have much, if anything to do with Searchlight though. I suspect it will be a straightforward fly on the wall kind of thing concentrating on individual EDL members rather than what others think of them.

john x


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## krink (Jan 23, 2012)

juice_terry said:


> They were then pal , this must have been around '95/96



cheers.

He has nevr told me directly but I reckon the lad I know may have just been getting into that around then. I'll just have to ask him next time our paths cross.


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## Ranbay (Jan 23, 2012)

http://vimeo.com/35365319

WARNING HAS SOME FUCKED UP PHOTOS in the video.!!!

*European Defence League Promo*

European Defence League Promotion Video for a truly historic event. An International Defence League Demo taking place in Aarhus, Denmark, at March 31, 2012. This is one demo you don't want to miss!

Official statement:

On March 31st 2012 the European Defence Leagues and various counter-jihad groups will be meeting in Aarhus Denmark to hold a public meeting with talks by speakers from all around Europe.
The Danish Defence League will be hosting this event and invitations have been sent to all European Defence Leagues as well as selected counter-jihad personalities.
This event is open to the public as well as members of all defence leagues worldwide and is planned as a peaceful demonstration highlighting such topics as sharia law,halal and the increasing islamification of our countries.
Further details will be released nearer the time.
Press: Please contact the defence league administration teams in your country.


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## Fingers (Jan 23, 2012)

Here you go malatesta

http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/707295

Despatches goes out on the 16th feb


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## intersol32 (Jan 23, 2012)

juice_terry said:


> Reminds me of the time quite a mob of Leicester's "Baby Squad" came unstuck against an AFA contingent after they thought it would be a good idea to attack "a small group of lefties" following a Bloody Sunday march... it certainly was a bloody day for them with the snow turning a lovely shade of red with these Leicester City hardmen strewn all over the place.



Haha. I remember it. The Hind in Leicester near the train station. Freezing day but a good turnout. The Baby Squad came into the Pub thinking it would be just a few SWP paper sellers and Trade Union types.

Memorable quote of the day: "Where's these fucking IRA lovers?"

Reply: "We're still here mate".

I seem to recall them trying to rapidly exit the front doors as a number of the London crowd came barging back in after spotting the half-wit hooligans acting shady in the street. Also a certain Notts AFA member hammering one of them slumped against a pedestrian railing with a bar stool.

As Fighting Talk would say..."A classic AFA pincer movement."


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## intersol32 (Jan 23, 2012)

krink said:


> Are all the BS like that? I ask cos I've known one for years and I've never heard him do/say anything as dodgy as this.



Terry's about right regarding the date, I had it down for around '96.

The BNP had originally called for a counter-demonstration, but had either been refused or called it off. Being on scouting duties that day, I'd have said the only people we spotted were folks who either turned up on their own initiative or small groups thinking that the CD was still on.

The footy lads probably numbered around half a dozen (correct me if I'm wrong). Which is probably why they felt like waiting until they thought most people (stewards etc) had drifted home.

My overall impression was that they weren't part of an organized operation by the footy firm itself on the day, but just a handful of chancers hoping to make a name for themselves. They certainly got their arses handed to them anyway.


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## juice_terry (Jan 23, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Haha. I remember it. The Hind in Leicester near the train station. Freezing day but a good turnout. The Baby Squad came into the Pub thinking it would be just a few SWP paper sellers and Trade Union types.
> 
> Memorable quote of the day: "Where's these fucking IRA lovers?"
> 
> ...


That's the one pal  It was me who informed the poor lad that we were still there ! Acting shady the poor daft fuckers were throwing snowballs at the pub ha ha !!

On a serious note it goes to show that tactics haven't changed much and fash mobs even in the guise of the EDL nowadays will always front up when they feel they are faced with "easy pickings".


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## Das Uberdog (Jan 23, 2012)

planning another attempt at a Euro conference in Denmark

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-across-Europe-to-attend-far-Right-rally.html


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 24, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> They're not tho are they. As an organisation the have a pretty clear political message: anti Muslim immigration, extremism and in general. So 'politically useless' that theyve been more attractive to working class people than the far-left.
> 
> I don't want to get into occupy but it certainly has a much less clear political message. They're just liberals' camping. What do they stand for? Anti-capitalism? Anti-bad capitalism? They produce no solution, no ideas.
> 
> I think those still camping have less of an idea what their purpose is than the muslamic rayguns chap. He knows he's marching against muslims and immigration with an organisation which is doing the same. More than can be said about the campers and Occupy.



Though I agree that "the left" has not made much traction under these circs, and the EDL have made some (or at least did make some, they have pretty much stalled overall) - It's not that fair a comparison. The EDL are against stuff, a relative doddle to constructing an alternative programme and strategy. The people camping do have a programme related to humanity. They also have more people participating and (probably) sympathetic than the EDL (I say probably, because I think a lot were sympathetic to the EDL in the early months before getting alienated by thugs, drunks and fascists). Occupy have impacted national debate more in a shorter period of time. This is regardless of the holes we could easily pick in them. I think too many have scoffed and sneered at Occupy, people who so often seem to think they know better without having had that much success with their own agenda and strategy either.


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## SpineyNorman (Jan 24, 2012)

You appear to be replying to an imaginary post where he's saying that the EDL have a subtle, nuanced, sophisticated political message. In reality he's actually saying that they have a consistent and clear one. And he's right. Conversely, he's saying that occupy is incoherent and he's right about that too (and I'd add to that the fact that it's becoming increasingly pointless, something only those within the occupy bubble even care about).


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 24, 2012)

latest 'Malatesta' Read All Abaht It!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 24, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00mzctl

The EDL and the UAF could be marching through Leicester on 4th Feb. We hear your reaction.

35 mins in you can listen to Jeff Marsh init.


----------



## krink (Jan 24, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00mzctl
> 
> The EDL and the UAF could be marching through Leicester on 4th Feb. We hear your reaction.
> 
> 35 mins in you can listen to Jeff Marsh init.



bob i clicked the link but i just got a window open up and nowt happened? am i doing it wrong?


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## Ranbay (Jan 24, 2012)

try this one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=jim davis


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## krink (Jan 24, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> try this one
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/search?q=jim davis



spot-on, cheers.


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## john x (Jan 24, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00mzctl
> 
> The EDL and the UAF could be marching through Leicester on 4th Feb. We hear your reaction.
> 
> 35 mins in you can listen to Jeff Marsh init.



Tommy Robinson was booked by BBC Radio Leicester to be interviewed for this programme. He bottled it and didn't answer his phone when the producer rang back and now Leicester EDL are claiming that the BBC had lied, and had never actually booked Robinson at all.

Marxist BBC anyone?

john x


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## manny-p (Jan 24, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00mzctl
> 
> The EDL and the UAF could be marching through Leicester on 4th Feb. We hear your reaction.
> 
> 35 mins in you can listen to Jeff Marsh init.


Hope they get battered again(the edl).


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## Fingers (Jan 24, 2012)

The Jeff 'Stabber' Marsh interview in full
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/v...eff-marsh-is-edl-spokesman-for-leicester-demo


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

Hooray. The BFP's first leaflet.

Better switch the irony meters off for this one. Wouldn't want them to explode.

http://britishfreedomDOTorg/new-britishHYPHENfreedom-leaflets/

BREAK THIS SORT OF LINK PLEASE


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

They want a US style freedom of speech. Guess how many posts I lasted on their Faceache page for some polite questioning?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

john x said:


> Marxist BBC anyone?
> 
> john x



I did a written complaint when cokeboy got an interview on Newsnight for his group being associated with mass murder in Norway. No reply. I asked if there was policy on how many people have to die before a representitive of an ideology get a spot. I wasn't actually joking. I noted that the financial crisis and failure of politicians to deal with it made the anarchist and other anti capitalist cases seemingly more credible. But there is never an anarchist on Newsnight to my knowledge. So I asked them if the real issue was that anarchists hadn't killed enough people to get their spot.

Some people say Cokeboy made a tit of himself anyway, but I think Paxman let him get away with some ludicrous stuff, and the fans aint going to be bothered by detail. It's a capitulation by ignorant journalists. They still don't seem to know that the EDL is riddled with nazis, fascists and criminals. It's a sheer dereliction of professional duty. I haven't heard the Marsh interview, not sure I want to. But I doubt due diligence was done on his suitability as a guest.


----------



## john x (Jan 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> They want a US style freedom of speech. Guess how many posts I lasted on their Faceache page for some polite questioning?


They banned and deleted a load of genuine EDL'rs for complaining about Tommy's little deal with them.

john x


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## john x (Jan 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I haven't heard the Marsh interview, not sure I want to. But I doubt due diligence was done on his suitability as a guest.



A later caller had to point out to the show's host that 'Jo' was in fact Jeff Marsh and if you Googled his name you would clearly see all the nazi references.

john x


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## Red Storm (Jan 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Hooray. The BFP's first leaflet.
> 
> Better switch the irony meters off for this one. Wouldn't want them to explode.
> 
> ...



What has that 20 point plan got to do with debt


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## purenarcotic (Jan 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Hooray. The BFP's first leaflet.
> 
> Better switch the irony meters off for this one. Wouldn't want them to explode.
> http://britishfreedomDOTorg/ new-britishHYPHENfreedom-leaflets/



Point 20 made my irony meter explode.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

Not sure they read this before point 8 either.

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/english-defence-league-criminals

It needs updating thoughbut.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> What has that 20 point plan got to do with debt



Less money to those pesky migrants. That could save literally 10s of pounds in each case.


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## Red Storm (Jan 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Less money to those pesky migrants. That could save literally 10s of pounds in each case.



A lot of the points aren't economic


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

I know. It's funny as fuck. Less  More 

It makes for a nice picture though doesn't it? It's pitched about the level of analysis they expect from their voter, or maybe somewhat above it. Also it feeds more into a right than a left narrative. Some of the best BNP propaganda at the last Euros was anti banker. Not sure the splitters have that one figured out yet. In fact, I think in their early principles there was a bit of bank bashing. It's gone now. Perhaps they know which side they're on after all.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 25, 2012)

point 17 lol


----------



## krink (Jan 25, 2012)

yeah point 17? surely some mistake?


----------



## laptop (Jan 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Hooray. The BFP's first leaflet.
> 
> Better switch the irony meters off for this one. Wouldn't want them to explode.
> 
> http://britishfreedom. org/new-british-freedom-leaflets/



I reckon that link ought to be broken...

And: "Halt and turn back... Sharia finance". So they aim to make the charging of interest *compulsory*?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 25, 2012)

someone call david icke


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## john x (Jan 25, 2012)

*lynette112* _January 25, 2012_

Concise, and outlining points which no right minded British person could disagree with. And very important, not in 50 different languages. Need I say more. Well done.
john x


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jan 25, 2012)

laptop said:


> I reckon that link ought to be broken...
> 
> And: "Halt and turn back... Sharia finance". So they aim to make the charging of interest *compulsory*?


Done, thanks for the heads up


----------



## BigTom (Jan 25, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Done, thanks for the heads up



The link is still there  In the new XF software it doesn't matter if you edit the text because the link is still complete behind the text - you need to hit the broken chain icon in the reply box to remove the link, or hit the chain icon and break the link in there.

edit: the link  is also in Red Storm's post where s/he quoted the link


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## BigTom (Jan 25, 2012)

I like points 11 (rebuild the armed forces to 1980s levels) and point 13 (withdraw army from anywhere that does not directly threaten us).  I think this is a great example of joined up thinking that shows us the BFP are ready for government.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

Oh noes.

The Halal frothers have found out that chips is halal.

One of them is writing to Mccain.

https://www.facebook.com/BOYCOTTxHALAL/posts/122856787819529

But when are they going to boycott the halal internet?

_eta: none of the above is intended for humour. There is too big a risk of people suddenly being racist, fascist or general hatemongers through others laughing at the EDL._


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## john x (Jan 25, 2012)

BigTom said:


> I like points 11 (rebuild the armed forces to *1980s levels*)



Ha ha, they've changed it! I might have to take credit for that!

It was originally "1970's levels" and I was trolling their facebook page just after they had done the deal with Tommy Robinson. I asked them if that meant hardware as well as troop levels and they said 'it meant what it said -armed forces'. So I reminded them that they were suggesting that we had armed forces that had practically no computers, no smart weapons and no GPS guidance systems!

How on earth do these people remember to dress themselves in the morning? 

john x


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

john x said:


> Ha ha, they've changed it! I might have to take credit for that!
> 
> It was originally "1970's levels" and I was trolling their facebook page just after they had done the deal with Tommy Robinson. I asked them if that meant hardware as well as troop levels and they said 'it meant what it said -armed forces'. So I reminded them that they were suggesting that we had armed forces that had practically no computers, no smart weapons and no GPS guidance systems!
> 
> ...



Did you not get banned for such impertinence? As per point 1?


----------



## john x (Jan 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Did you not get banned for such impertinence? As per point 1?


No I was 'undercover trolling' with an EDL profile, pretending to be ex-BNP and interested in what the BFP had to offer.

john x


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 25, 2012)

john x said:


> No I was 'undercover trolling' with an EDL profile, pretending to be ex-BNP and interested in what the BFP had to offer.
> 
> john x


 
Ah...a sockpuppet. Santa brought me one of those, but I haven't really utilised it properly yet.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:
			
		

> Ah...a sockpuppet. Santa brought me one of those, but I haven't really utilised it properly yet.


No need


----------



## john x (Jan 25, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> No need


Do you think that anyone seriously sees the EDL as meaningful political movement in the UK?

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 26, 2012)

the main problem with the EDL is that they have a terrible public image. they complain about bad media coverage then they attack journalists or declare 'fatwa' on them and then wonder why. the images of them are white, shaven headed, aggressive, drunk blokes - which a lot of 'voters' find repulsive. most people dont like violence and the edl are associated with violence. they blame the UAF (sic!) for attacking them and causing the violence which is delusional, the people who attack them, if any can get near them cos of plod, are locals who are pissed off that the EDL are disrupting their towns. the link up with the fluffies is sensible if they want to make a political difference but the fluffies are only 1 of numerous alphabetti spaghetti far right parties which is confusing.


----------



## john x (Jan 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the link up with the fluffies is sensible if they want to make a political difference but the fluffies are only 1 of numerous alphabetti spaghetti far right parties which is confusing.



I'd like to know how many members the BFP got from the EDL.

When the 'arrangement' was first announced, there was a discounted membership fee for EDL supporters but it quickly went up to £30. The most often heard quote on hearing the news was, "Fuck off! it's only a tenner to join the NF!"' There are still many more BNP supporters than BFP supporters in the EDL which will be interesting when it comes to election time and Tommy is trying to persuade them to 'help out' with the BFP campaign. 

john x


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## malatesta32 (Jan 26, 2012)

i didnt capture it, but i recall 1 poster on facebook saying 'just got my membership card - im number 140' - which may give you an indea!!!! yr reight, the BNP is the EDL favourite. tommy is using fluffies to get out of it all before he ends up in jail.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 26, 2012)

john x said:


> Do you think that anyone seriously sees the EDL as meaningful political movement in the UK?
> 
> john x


Not sure why you're asking me that john - given that my point was that this EDL related secret-squirreling is not needed because of their irrelevance, because of the fact they are not and are not going to become a serious political movement (the social issues that produce them is a different matter). But for the record no i don't.


----------



## john x (Jan 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not sure why you're asking me that john - given that my point was that this EDL related secret-squirreling is not needed because of their irrelevance, because of the fact they are not and are not going to become a serious political movement (the social issues that produce them is a different matter). But for the record no i don't.


I didn't ask you if *you* thought they were a serious threat, I asked you if you thought *anyone else* did.

Most of the people who post here just take the piss out of the EDL. No-one is scared of them and like you, nobody thinks they will be the next NF/BM/BFP. They are a joke and sometimes it is good to laugh at the far-right as it does demoralise them whether they admit it or not.

Regardless of what the far-right is doing in the rest of Europe, it is on its arse here. There is no enthusiasm for it any more, even among it's more loyal supporters. The failure of the 'EDL experiment' has helped that demoralisation, and those on here and elsewhere who have pointed out exactly why the EDL is not the legitimate expression of the disenfranchised white working class, have played their part in that failure.

It all counts.

john x


----------



## purenarcotic (Jan 26, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Done, thanks for the heads up



Could I have a bit of newbie clarification; why do some links (such as the bfp one) need to be broken but others are fine?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

because they're fash and we don't want fash to know there's a link from urban75 to their site, because bad things could happen.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 26, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> Could I have a bit of newbie clarification; why do some links (such as the bfp one) need to be broken but others are fine?



For a bit more clarity.. they can look at their stats and see people have come to their site from here.. they may wonder why, and come over here and then we get loads of fash trolling here, causing hassle for mods etc..


----------



## krink (Jan 26, 2012)

BigTom said:


> causing hassle for mods etc..


----------



## purenarcotic (Jan 26, 2012)

BigTom said:


> For a bit more clarity.. they can look at their stats and see people have come to their site from here.. they may wonder why, and come over here and then we get loads of fash trolling here, causing hassle for mods etc..



Ah, makes sense. Cheers.


----------



## manny-p (Jan 26, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> because they're fash and we don't want fash to know there's a link from urban75 to their site, because bad things could happen.


To be fair any fash who have a bit of brain between their skulls would know about this forum. But I understand the policy.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 26, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> _eta: none of the above is intended for humour. There is too big a risk of people suddenly being racist, fascist or general hatemongers through others laughing at the EDL._



Do you really want to go over this again? Only given that nobody suggested that by taking the piss there'd be "too big a risk of people suddenly being racist, fascist or general hatemongers through others laughing at the EDL." you might end up looking a bit of a pillock. Again.


----------



## john x (Jan 26, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> because bad things could happen.


Like board wars!

Do people still have board wars these days? 

john x


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 26, 2012)




----------



## krink (Jan 26, 2012)

if board wars are what I think they are I reckon we could have libcom any day


----------



## Casually Red (Jan 26, 2012)

is it like that bit in anchorman.._.Hola beeetches_


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 27, 2012)

British fluffies upset about the future!
http://twitpic.com/8bxbwy/full


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## john x (Jan 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> British fluffies upset about the future!
> http://twitpic.com/8bxbwy/full


The far-right, like the far-left always use 100 words when 10 will do!

If electoral deals aren't done, I can see actual violence during election campaigning when the BNP and BFP stand for the same seats.

john x


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## malatesta32 (Jan 27, 2012)

cerainly hope so. as pointed out in collins; hate, the far right hate each other more than they hated the left! bizarre. its to do with contesting such small political space amongst other things.


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## Corax (Jan 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> cerainly hope so. as pointed out in collins; hate, the far right hate each other more than they hated the left! bizarre. its to do with contesting such small political space amongst other things.


I can imagine that accusation being levelled at the left as well I'm afraid.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 27, 2012)

Corax said:


> I can imagine that accusation being levelled at the left as well I'm afraid.



Really? I don't hate anyone on the left as much as the far right. In fact the only ones who come close to inspiring as much hatred in my soul are the lib dems. I've yet to come across anyone on the left whose sectarianism goes that far.


----------



## Corax (Jan 27, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Really? I don't hate anyone on the left as much as the far right. In fact the only ones who come close to inspiring as much hatred in my soul are the lib dems. I've yet to come across anyone on the left whose sectarianism goes that far.


I'm not saying it's true, just that it wouldn't be hard for someone from the right to justify the characterisation.  People's front of Judea etc.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 28, 2012)

Little more than email based rumour, but interesting nonetheless, especially regarding the admittance of the decline of the EDL.

http://www.blottr.com/uk/breaking-news/exclusive-british-far-right-about-merge


----------



## josef1878 (Jan 28, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Little more than email based rumour, but interesting nonetheless, especially regarding the admittance of the decline of the EDL.
> 
> http://www.blottr.com/uk/breaking-news/exclusive-british-far-right-about-merge



Then they can all fall out again over who will be leader and take the biggest cut.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2012)

Corax said:


> I can imagine that accusation being levelled at the left as well I'm afraid.


i dont recall any outright internecine violence or accusations of 'grass' and 'nonce' on the left. these kind of things are frequent on the far right. most recent infighting was the infidels/SDL/NF fallout in newcastle when they attacked each other.
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/12/08/its-all-fall-out-with-the-infidels/
as for accusations of 'nonce' and 'red' and 'grass' - see any random post on VNNuk or Shirtfront!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2012)

it seems that the Fluffies and the 'parallel' BNP could merge together. they are hoping to capitalise on the EDL support. however, the edl numbers are falling and on the EDLs own forum, they wd rather go for ukip or bnp than the fluffies or similar.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 28, 2012)

That business with Kim whatsername and UKIP about a week ago makes me wonder. If UKIP don't handle situations like that better could it not blow up in their faces? Or if handled deftly could it send enough nudges and winks to soft racists and galvanise support? I really don't know how racist their support is. Is there anyway of being certain?


----------



## Deareg (Jan 28, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i dont recall any outright internecine violence or accusations of 'grass' and 'nonce' on the left. these kind of things are frequent on the far right. most recent infighting was the infidels/SDL/NF fallout in newcastle when they attacked each other.
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/12/08/its-all-fall-out-with-the-infidels/
> as for accusations of 'nonce' and 'red' and 'grass' - see any random post on VNNuk or Shirtfront!


Have to admit I think the left are every bit as bad as the right when it comes to infighting and name calling, the only difference is that most of the left are incapable of using physical violence.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2012)

seem to be having the same convo on 2 threads. our froggy said it best:
'also there isn't the fatal (literally) consequences in an anarcho/trot split that a fash split can have. Have any trot parties' members ended up killing each other over their differences on the transitional programme? I don't think so.'
just reading about C18 and how it all fell apart and they all got jailed. not much of that on our side.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 29, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Have to admit I think the left are every bit as bad as the right when it comes to infighting and name calling, the only difference is that most of the left are incapable of using physical violence.



Fuck off cunt  I'd fucking batter you for saying that but I've got a dodgy back so I can't risk it.


----------



## manny-p (Jan 29, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Fuck off cunt  I'd fucking batter you for saying that but I've got a dodgy back so I can't risk it.


Just use a handgun. sawn off- sorted.


----------



## Corax (Jan 29, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Fuck off cunt  I'd fucking batter you for saying that but I've got a dodgy back so I can't risk it.


You'll have to come in for an assessment so we can tell you if you've got a dodgy back or not.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jan 29, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=264477856954861&id=187348028026321

This is interesting. Announcing the location of their demo tomorrow, somewhere in Greater Manchester


----------



## josef1878 (Jan 29, 2012)

I lost interest at 'these immigrants.......'


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 30, 2012)

any news on that? ^


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 30, 2012)

a candidate for eejit of the week surely?
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/i...-who-shouted-edl-when-he-attacked-a-taxi.html


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## Red Storm (Jan 30, 2012)

Infidel march will be in Rochdale.


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## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-leader-liam-woods-threatens-to-smash-leicester-up

edl-leader-liam-woods-threatens-to-smash-leicester-up


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## Ranbay (Jan 30, 2012)

https://twitter.com/#!/LGBTEDL

His twatter


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## malatesta32 (Jan 30, 2012)

they didnt fare so well last time in the dale!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/edl-in-rochdale/
altho the plod dogs got a taste for EDLers!


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## intersol32 (Jan 31, 2012)

Update on the Leicester EDL.

They've now been granted a march (along with the UAF). The EDL one has been given the opportunity to march through the City Centre, past the clock tower, where most marches go. Whilst the UAF have been shunted further out. Apparently the UAF complained and were told they either have it there or at Nelson Mandela Park which is even further out.

Leicester EDL held a leafletting at short notice in the town centre last Saturday. They were outnumbered by UAF, and obviously felt intimidated by an Asian woman bawling her head off at them down a megaphone because they later appealed for "back up" on their Facebook page. Eyewitnesses said many of the public were ignoring the EDL and refusing their leaflets despite them claiming they "had a good response from people".

Leicester police are issuing a message to all schools in the Leicester area, which should be out shortly and I'll post it when I can.

The cops seem to think that having a march will be easier to police than a static demo. I've no fucking clue how they came to this conclusion.


----------



## xes (Jan 31, 2012)

Liam woods runs the LGBT division? Does that mean something else to the EDL, or is there a lesbian, gay, bi and trans section of the EDL?

Is this some kind of wind up, or am I barking up the wrong accronym?


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## Ranbay (Jan 31, 2012)

It's easy, they have/had one gay, they had one Mental Jew, and they had one brown person.....

That way they can't be called Nazis....


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 31, 2012)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1546/roberta-goes-it-alone

roberta-goes-it-alone


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 31, 2012)

xes said:


> Liam woods runs the LGBT division? Does that mean something else to the EDL, or is there a lesbian, gay, bi and trans section of the EDL?
> 
> Is this some kind of wind up, or am I barking up the wrong accronym?



think fingers is the 1 to ask on this one.


----------



## manny-p (Jan 31, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1546/roberta-goes-it-alone
> 
> roberta-goes-it-alone


She makes the EDL look moderate.


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 31, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It's easy, they have/had one gay, they had one Mental Jew, and they had one brown person.....
> 
> That way they can't be called Nazis....



theyre not.


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## frogwoman (Jan 31, 2012)

manny-p said:


> She makes the EDL look moderate.



great now a more extreme version of the likes of beitar and co ...


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## Ranbay (Jan 31, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> theyre not.



Their logic not mine.


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## Ranbay (Jan 31, 2012)

http://uaf.org.uk/2012/01/edl-strategist-alan-lake-suspended-from-manager-job-at-city-bank/

*EDL strategist 'Alan Lake' suspended from manager job at major international development bank*


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## disco_dave_2000 (Feb 2, 2012)

Don't think this has been mentioned - but read it on Liveraf (should it have it's own thread?)

"On Monday 6 February, the British National Party and English Defence League will be holding concurrent demonstrations outside Liverpool Crown Court.

These demonstrations are in response to the court appearance of 11 men from Rochdale, accused of operating a child sex ring. The crime they are accused of is a despicable one, and we will shed no tears if they are jailed for a very long time. Yet the far-right is demonstrating here because they happen to be of Asian origin.

The fascists are exploiting the abuse of children to promote their nationalist agenda. They claim that Asians and Muslims are more likely than any other group to abuse children and that there is a media blackout to cover up this fact. But how do they propose to change things? If there is less coverage of the issue than is deserved, it is precisely because the far-right use it to stir up racial and religious hatred. They use such horrific incidents to turn people against entire communities.

The vast majority of those arrested for sex crimes in the UK are White British. In the past year, the world’s attention has been drawn to the scandal of widespread child abuse by Catholic priests. Where was the fascists’ demand that the “white community” or “Christian community” be held accountable for these crimes? The fact is, they only show their face when they can pin the issue on Asians and Muslims.

These crimes are not an attack on white people by muslims or Asians, but on vulnerable children by sexual predators. Abuse of children is an indescribably revolting crime, whoever commits it. Racist spin won’t save children from abuse, and nor will the sick opportunism of the EDL.

Don’t let fascists exploit child abuse for political gain.

Oppose the BNP and EDL – assemble by the Victoria Monument, Derby Square, from 8.30am on Monday 6 February."


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## intersol32 (Feb 2, 2012)

Good statement.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 3, 2012)

I sometimes wonder if people who froth about paedophiles so obsessively do protest too much. Why do they think about it so much? (if not at least for professional reasons) 

Did anyone protest when Richard Price went on trial? (not that he is the only paedophile in the fash ranks)


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Feb 3, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I sometimes wonder if people who froth about paedophiles so obsessively do protest too much. Why do they think about it so much? (if not at least for professional reasons)
> 
> Did anyone protest when Richard Price went on trial? (not that he is the only paedophile in the fash ranks)


 
i'm a freelance photographer and have lost count of the amount of times i've been called a paedophile by BNP / EDL types - completely random, when i'm there taking photos of grown men (unless of course _paedophilia _now includes people acting as children ;-)


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 3, 2012)

On the other hand you don't half get a rise out of EDLers if you call them a nonce ime.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 3, 2012)

Paedomania is still replete in some sections though it has died down a bit in the media of late. I thought and hoped the Brasseye special (most important TV show of the last decade IMO) would put an end to it for good, but sadly not. 

In teaching, children still use it from time to time as an implicit threat or insinuation against staff they don't like - a disturbing sign of the paranoia sweeping through society. 

Meanwhile the increasing sexualisation of children and childhood, and selling of commodities to using sex is hardly a secret. There is something very twisted going on beneath the surface of all this.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 3, 2012)

I sometimes wonder if people who froth about the edl so obsessively do protest too much...


----------



## john x (Feb 3, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> i'm a freelance photographer and have lost count of the amount of times i've been called a paedophile by BNP / EDL types


What is that about?

A mate of mine was taking photos of known 'faces' at the first Nationalist demo in Leeds last year. Most of the people she was photographing were middle-aged blokes and almost every one of them screamed "Paedo!" in her face. At one point a cop even had to calm one of them down and remind him to 'watch his language'.

john x


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## bignose1 (Feb 3, 2012)

john x said:


> What is that about?
> 
> A mate of mine was taking photos of known 'faces' at the first Nationalist demo in Leeds last year. Most of the people she was photographing were middle-aged blokes and almost every one of them screamed "Paedo!" in her face. At one point a cop even had to calm one of them down and remind him to 'watch his language'.
> 
> john x


 I was taking photos of young men in a swimming pool wearing skimpy trunks...does that make me a speedophile??


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 3, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> I was taking photos of young men in a swimming pool wearing skimpy trunks...does that make me a speedophile??


On a serious note(yes i know) When I was taking photos/video of the fash and before my boat was well known Id sometimes stand with them and appear to be taking stuff of the anti's and get shots of them as I panned about a bit. I also, especially with the video camera which was obviously larger in size than todays kit, would carry it by my side and film away as if you were just holding it. Ok some pavement shots but ok after an edit. Was I the forerunner of the upskirt cam.??!! Well I have some pretty tasty shots of Carolyn Giles's pins.


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 3, 2012)

Another Leicester update:

The UAF last night rejected the route for their march laid out by the police and other organizers. Instead they've stated an intention to gather as a static protest at the Clock Tower to "register their disgust". A leaflet already being circulated is asking people to form up there at 4pm before the EDL one is due to go past.

The response from the cops has been that anyone not adhering to their appropriate routes will be subject to arrest. The local Leicester Mercury newspaper is having fits about it, warning of violence and further disruption.

Apparently the cops are having further talks with the UAF again today. So we'll see if this is a threat that the UAF will actually carry out. Given the tactics of the group it's likely they'll be happy to stand behind a row of hundreds of riot cops. The Trades Council are going ahead with the established route and are urging people away from the City Center.

However, the real test of the day will be if the local Asian youths are content with any of these scenarios.


----------



## john x (Feb 3, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> However, the real test of the day will be if the local Asian youths are content with any of these scenarios.


 
Not sure that the local Asian youth are subject to any of these rules. If they want to chase the EDL I suspect they'll do it wherever or whenever.

john x


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## savoloysam (Feb 3, 2012)

I don't think it's a good idea for people to be turning to greet these idiots. Firstly why give them the publicity they crave and secondly any asian or black gangs hoping for a good old ruck are just playing into EDL's hands.

Sometimes ignorance is the best policy. That's all I've got to say about these nobodies.


----------



## john x (Feb 3, 2012)

I tend to agree with that.

The turnout for recent EDL pubcrawls has been pathetic and hardly justifies a counter protest. If they pose a threat to the local community, let the local community or the police deal with them. If their numbers ever pose a serious threat, that is the time to oppose them.

john x


----------



## Termite Man (Feb 3, 2012)

john x said:


> I tend to agree with that.
> 
> The turnout for recent EDL pubcrawls has been pathetic and hardly justifies a counter protest. If they pose a threat to the local community, let the local community or the police deal with them. If their numbers ever pose a serious threat, that is the time to oppose them.
> 
> john x


 
surely it's better to counter protest when they are weak to put people off joining than waiting until they have strength and numbers.


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 3, 2012)

john x said:


> I tend to agree with that.
> 
> The turnout for recent EDL pubcrawls has been pathetic and hardly justifies a counter protest. If they pose a threat to the local community, let the local community or the police deal with them. If their numbers ever pose a serious threat, that is the time to oppose them.
> 
> john x


You mean just before the knock on the door by brownshirted chaps at 4am some time in the future and a one way trip to a Sachsenhausen equivalent establishment with time to contemplate whether they were a serious threat


----------



## manny-p (Feb 3, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> You mean just before the knock on the door by brownshirted chaps at 4am some time in the future and a one way trip to a Sachsenhausen equivalent establishment with time to contemplate whether they were a serious threat


Have you been to any EDL demos? They are hardly the NF,BNP- mostly just a disorganised drunken mess. Still I take your point.


----------



## john x (Feb 3, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> surely it's better to counter protest when they are weak to put people off joining than waiting until they have strength and numbers.


They HAD strength and numbers (of a sort) when they got 2,500-3,000 after the poppy-burning in 2009.

Since then half have disappeared to the BNP/NF/Infidels and the rest exist as a facebook social club.

They are a joke.

john x


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## intersol32 (Feb 4, 2012)

Many of them actually are BNP/NF/B+H etc and share dual-membership with the EDL (if you can count the EDL as having 'membership').

Ignoring them completely basically gives them a free run, and allows the potential for growth. But I'm not talking about a fruity counter-protest either with a few jugglers and unicyclists.

What was it Hitler said about "the only way to defeat us would have been to smash the nucleus of our movement at the beginning"?

To be honest I don't really want 10 of them now marching down my street...or a 1000 of them in the near future. I hope to fuck they get leathered tomorrow and spend the rest of their journey home thinking that it was all a bad idea.

Groups like these, the BNP, the NF, C18 or whatever guise they'll come in tomorrow count their popularity in peaks and troughs. so I agree they may have HAD their day, but what are we likely to see next coming out of the woodwork? I seem to remember the trendy left over the past 20-30 years saying to some of us that "the BNP were miniscule, full of cranks and not worth bothering with". Then they collectively shit themselves and rush to launch another version of the ANL at the point it's too fucking late.


----------



## john x (Feb 4, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Ignoring them completely basically gives them a free run,


 
A free run to do what, exactly?

john x


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 4, 2012)

john x said:


> A free run to do what, exactly?
> 
> john x


 
"..and allows the potential for growth".

It was the end of the sentence you missed off when quoting me.


----------



## Termite Man (Feb 4, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> "..and allows the potential for growth".
> 
> It was the end of the sentence you missed off when quoting me.


 
I think it's fair to say the far right will always exist, the question is, is it better to have a large number of small groups which are harder to keep track of because of the amount of them or a small number of larger groups that are easier to keep track of and counter demonstrate but have a bigger profile?


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## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

today is the big day. the infidels in rochdale and the edl in leicester will show how many they can mobilise. the infidels have had a piss poor show so far with a few dozen turning up at their demos and the 1 in newcastle ended up with them battering each other. the edl, going by their forum, have lost a LOT of supporters. soccer games, snowy/cold weather and apathy are going to have an effect on today. as intersol rightly pointed out, there are hardcore nazis on these do's as well as pissed up yobbos. they shd always be opposed if they come to your town. matt collins refers to them as 'drug dealers, crack-heads racists, weirdos, speed-freaks, narks and police informers ' here:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1559/brace-yourself-rochdale
that is hard to dispute!


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## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

the pedo thing is weird. they are having their protest in liverpool against the 'muslamic groooomers' and using a false logic/syllogism say
'we oppose muslamic pedos, UAF oppose us, ergo UAF are pedos'
which shows their appalling political understanding. folks oppose the edl/infidels because they act/are fascists. time and again they show their naivety like this and wonder why folks cant take them seriously.


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## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2012)

updates for today can be found here

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co....-city-centre/story-15130681-detail/story.html


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## manny-p (Feb 4, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Many of them actually are BNP/NF/B+H etc and share dual-membership with the EDL (if you can count the EDL as having 'membership').


 
I would say the minority of them are. Most are nationalist/racists/islamophobes whose political analysis of things is shite.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

Seconds out for another round of Operation Drunken Clusterfuck.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

savoloysam said:


> I don't think it's a good idea for people to be turning to greet these idiots. Firstly why give them the publicity they crave and secondly any asian or black gangs hoping for a good old ruck are just playing into EDL's hands.
> 
> Sometimes ignorance is the best policy. That's all I've got to say about these nobodies.


 
Problem is that the less people oppose the more likely they will be allowed to march, preen their fucking egos about how they own the place and intimidate folk. It gives a sense of victory, deserved or not, that puts fire in the belly.


----------



## john x (Feb 4, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> "..and allows the potential for growth".
> 
> It was the end of the sentence you missed off when quoting me.


 
Thurrock has the potential to become Premier League champions in five years time but it's not going to happen. 

john x


----------



## manny-p (Feb 4, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> I hope to fuck they get leathered tomorrow and spend the rest of their journey home thinking that it was all a bad idea..


 
 Me too.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

i dont think there is an urgent need for a new national AFA to combat the EDL as they are quite happy battering each other but if they turn up to your town are you just going to sit indoors? i'm not.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

at leicester. blackburn, liverpool and some london apparently turned up.
http://twitter.com/#!/David_MacLean/status/165775167275024386/photo/1


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

leics plod sez:
'Around 500-700 EDL supporters and 200 UAF supporters preparing to march.'
apparently a bunch stopped off in loughborough and were moved on. dunno if theyll make it!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

piss poor turnout for infidels. arrests already in manchester. eejits.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

piss poor turnout for EDL too. endgame?


----------



## john x (Feb 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> piss poor turnout for EDL too. endgame?


Not sure about endgame.

That will probably be the third anniversary of the first Luton march. If they can't get a decent turnout for that they'll pretty much have to call it a day. If they don't, I reckon Zhc/Anonymous/ etc will go in for the kill as they are getting bored with them now (main EDL.com website was down all last night after a DoS attack)

Calling this demo today was strategically stupid. Cold, too soon after Xmas and using the Rhea Page case as the reason meant it was never going to attract much support. And they have history in Leicester. After it kicked off last time no-one wanted to see them back.

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

http://cdnmo.coveritlive.com/media/image/201202/phpmiQxLVEDLmarch.jpg

poor turnout for national march.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

yeah folks on the local news site reminding everyone of the attack on the restaurant with women and kids terrified. big toughies arent they!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

a dozen or so wet, cold and pissed off infidels up a side street in rochdale. looking like they have very much surrendered!
http://twitpic.com/8flcy9


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

and again!
http://twitpic.com/8fleb1


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2012)

David_MacLean: 
Trouble was a minor clash between opposing demos down a side street. Heavy use of batons, brought under control. _[via Twitter]_


----------



## john x (Feb 4, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> David_MacLean:
> Trouble was a minor clash between opposing demos down a side street. Heavy use of batons, brought under control. _[via Twitter]_


Leicester or Rochdale, Bob?

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

leicester. theres a twitter feed on leicester mercury.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2012)

and not much happening in rochdale im afraid john x


----------



## romeo2001 (Feb 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i dont recall any outright internecine violence or accusations of 'grass' and 'nonce' on the left. these kind of things are frequent on the far right. most recent infighting was the infidels/SDL/NF fallout in newcastle when they attacked each other.
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/12/08/its-all-fall-out-with-the-infidels/
> as for accusations of 'nonce' and 'red' and 'grass' - see any random post on VNNuk or Shirtfront!


 
To be fair the quote "they all want to be eltons no-one wants to be david" (good qoute btw) could easily be levelled at the left - particularly if urban is any indication
Replace nonce grass and red with "closet far right" "middle class know fuck all socialist" and "naive idiot" and the prevalence is prolly the same also


----------



## romeo2001 (Feb 4, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It's easy, they have/had one gay, they had one Mental Jew, and they had one brown person.....
> 
> That way they can't be called Nazis....


 that and there are LBGT that hate muslims


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

romeo2001 said:


> To be fair the quote "they all want to be eltons no-one wants to be david" (good qoute btw) could easily be levelled at the left - particularly if urban is any indication
> Replace nonce grass and red with "closet far right" "middle class know fuck all socialist" and "naive idiot" and the prevalence is prolly the same also


What? Freak.

Libertarian? Spit it out.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

romeo2001 said:


> that and there are LBGT that hate muslims


Like the ones in the EDL. That's sort of the...point.


----------



## john x (Feb 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> and not much happening in rochdale im afraid john x


How can that be?

2012 is supposed to be the 'year of the infidel'!

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2012)

600-700 for the day....

numbers are falling and falling.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

An Argentinian flag was burned on the Leicester demo today. Have the muslamic hoarde spread their malign influence that far? Who knew? I could have sworn the vast majority were Roman Catholic there.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

What?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> An Argentinian flag was burned on the Leicester demo today. Have the muslamic hoarde spread their malign influence that far? Who knew? I could have sworn the vast majority were Roman Catholic there.


You total freak.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 4, 2012)




----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

OMG!!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

Butcher





butchersapron said:


> You total freak.


 
What in the name of fuck are you on about now?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

A bit of scientific method regarding numbers on recent demos. Interesting.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Butcher
> 
> What in the name of fuck are you on about now?


I mean that you are a freak.


----------



## Casually Red (Feb 4, 2012)

fucking wankers


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I mean that you are a freak.


 
Well that's me told. Was it especially freaky of me to question the burning of an Argentinian flag by an anti Islamic group or was it a more general outburst on your part?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

The idea that  WE NOW KNOW THE TRUTH!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

Is this more of your psychic stuff?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

You mean the stuff that you keep under wraps now that you're normal -the pre-historic spacemen an that shit? Nope. Nothing to  do with that.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

you're dancing around subjects quite a bit, but I know I should more readily accept your authority on the history of the universe. How did our own Swan of Avon put it? "There are more things in heaven and earth Butchers, than are dreamed of in your philosophy".


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2012)

like pre-historic spacemen. What else, let it all tumble...


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 4, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 
They're probably convinced that Argentina is some kind of Islamic Republic.

Also, I bet none of these fuckers could find the Falkland Islands on a map.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 4, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> like pre-historic spacemen. What else, let it all tumble...


 
I'm happy enough to explore all kinds of possibilities regarding the wonderful mysterious universe, I ain't sure this is the most ideal format for either that or your ongoing personal criticisms that have nothing whatsoever to do with the EDL.


----------



## savoloysam (Feb 5, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> They're probably convinced that Argentina is some kind of Islamic Republic.
> 
> Also, I bet none of these fuckers could find the Falkland Islands on a map.


 
Pretty blue eyed blond at the front. No Nazis stereotypes here


----------



## Fingers (Feb 5, 2012)




----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 5, 2012)

If poor Saint Tommy were to try and hide all the nazis in his group he would have bugger all time for anything else. Still, I note that he didn't head butt anyone today, so his command of an audience may be on a long term upswing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 5, 2012)

romeo2001 said:


> To be fair the quote "they all want to be eltons no-one wants to be david" (good qoute btw) could easily be levelled at the left - particularly if urban is any indication
> Replace nonce grass and red with "closet far right" "middle class know fuck all socialist" and "naive idiot" and the prevalence is prolly the same also


not sure if 'middle class' is as bad as nonce tho!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 5, 2012)

latest 'malatesta' - read all abaht it!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 5, 2012)

separated at birth?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 5, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 

Do I spy a Totenkopf on the flag burners hat?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 5, 2012)

no, cant be, theres no nazis in the EDL! mr tommy sez!


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 5, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> separated at birth? View attachment 16437View attachment 16436


Twaxley Melon is always coming 'You alvin it or worrrt'


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 5, 2012)

sunnysidedown said:


> Do I spy a Totenkopf on the flag burners hat?


Or a St Pauli fan....mein gott


----------



## romeo2001 (Feb 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What? Freak.
> 
> Libertarian? Spit it out.


 ah I missed one cheers for that


----------



## krink (Feb 5, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Twaxley Melon is always coming 'You alvin it or worrrt'


 
especially now the edl has no coo-ca-jews any more


argh, now you've got me doing it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 5, 2012)

krink said:


> especially now the edl has no coo-ca-jews any more
> 
> 
> argh, now you've got me doing it.


krink, dont get sucked into the pun borg!


----------



## manny-p (Feb 5, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 
It was cold to be fair.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 5, 2012)

savoloysam said:


> Pretty blue eyed blond at the front. No Nazis stereotypes here


 
What is wrong about being blonde with blue eyes?


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> What is wrong about being blonde with blue eyes?


Fuckin ze all.in my opinion


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> latest 'malatesta' - read all abaht it!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


"Standing alongside the bedraggled few were the entire membership of the Nazi British People’s Party. The BPP is quite a colourful outfit, though mainly white, and luminaries include Eddie Morrison, one of our favourite alco-nazis, Ku Klux Kev Watmough (Bostik’s Man Of The Year, 2004) and Martin Gilleard! Martin was arrested in 2008 on explosive charges as well as the not inconsiderate matter of child pornography!"

not inconsiderate? i'd suggest that child porn's very inconsiderate. perhaps you mean inconsiderable.


----------



## LiamO (Feb 6, 2012)

Is it me or is the somewhat portly gent on Blondie's left a dead ringer for a previously prominent (and perfectly proportioned) Birmingham AFA member?

description edited


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 6, 2012)

LiamO said:


> Is it me or is the somewhat portly gent on Blondie's left a dead ringer for a previously prominent (and plainly portly) Birmingham AFA member?


 
Haha. Certainly is!

On a related note I often wondered what the dramatized film version of the AFA story would look like. It had me convinced that John Candy would be a prime candidate for the role of Big T. from London. Although sadly he's no longer available.


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 6, 2012)

...although I hear John Goodman is currently in negotiations......


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 6, 2012)

?????


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 6, 2012)

manny-p said:


> It was cold to be fair.


Thats my inflatble !!


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 6, 2012)

LiamO said:


> Is it me or is the somewhat portly gent on Blondie's left a dead ringer for a previously prominent (and plainly portly) Birmingham AFA member?


 
Hahaha, that's harsh.


----------



## LiamO (Feb 6, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Hahaha, that's harsh.


 
I have amended the words 'plainly portly' to read 'perfectly proportioned' to reflect the esteem in which our Villa-supporting friend is held by all - except the Fash who fuckin hate him still!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> "Standing alongside the bedraggled few were the entire membership of the Nazi British People’s Party. The BPP is quite a colourful outfit, though mainly white, and luminaries include Eddie Morrison, one of our favourite alco-nazis, Ku Klux Kev Watmough (Bostik’s Man Of The Year, 2004) and Martin Gilleard! Martin was arrested in 2008 on explosive charges as well as the not inconsiderate matter of child pornography!"
> 
> not inconsiderate? i'd suggest that child porn's very inconsiderate. perhaps you mean inconsiderable.


 
apologies. duly amended.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2012)

good schnews on the spot report on leicester
http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/LEICESTER-PIGGED-OUT/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2012)

brillaint!
http://twitpic.com/8g8lfs


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 6, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Haha. Certainly is!
> 
> On a related note I often wondered what the dramatized film version of the AFA story would look like. It had me convinced that John Candy would be a prime candidate for the role of Big T. from London. Although sadly he's no longer available.


I know Im going to get stick from some sections..but a draft treatment of NR (the first half) has been submitted by a writer and is with a well known British film company...lets not have a bun fight about it..


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)

Now this is fucking FUNNY

https://www.facebook.com/makeitillegal


----------



## albionism (Feb 6, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> I know Im going to get stick from some sections..but a draft treatment of NR (the first half) has been submitted by a writer and is with a well known British film company...lets not have a bun fight about it..


 
gabriel byrne as joe reilly, al pacino as o farrell?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2012)

shaun ryder as the bloke in the BTF video?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 6, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Haha. Certainly is!
> 
> On a related note I often wondered what the dramatized film version of the AFA story would look like. It had me convinced that John Candy would be a prime candidate for the role of Big T. from London. Although sadly he's no longer available.


Who is danny dyer gonna play?


----------



## albionism (Feb 6, 2012)

Joe Gilgun as "Muslamic Rayguns"


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> gabriel byrne as joe reilly, al pacino as o farrell?


 If it'd be a soap then...we'd have a few camay-o roles


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2012)

danny dyer as mickey fenn (RIP)?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)

*BeckiMarsh1 Becki Marsh 
A few paedos have been slapped about. A few patriots have now been arrested. #EDL #Liverpool*


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *BeckiMarsh1 Becki Marsh *
> *A few paedos have been slapped about. A few patriots have now been arrested. #EDL #Liverpool*


 
Any more news on this paste it up.

As for the EDL Facebook complaints regarding "drunks on demos". If they stopped them from attending they'd lose half their number.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)

> BeckiMarsh1 Becki Marsh
> 
> This should be happening every time a paedo is in court anywhere whether muslim gangs or white paedos. They need to learn its wrong #*EDL*


 
yeah


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 6, 2012)

what about all the paedos in the ranks of the far right?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/8ghayf

Top lads here.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> what about all the paedos in the ranks of the far right?


 
They are just simply not Brown enough?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)

this is the case that they are there today to "sort" out for us.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-15039961


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 6, 2012)

Another good report about the EDL Leicester demo. Lots more detail regarding the actions of local people and independent anti-fascists:

http://leicestershiresg.blogspot.com/


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 6, 2012)

Off topic a bit http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...ur-for-massacre-of-77_n_1257190.html?13285431


----------



## john x (Feb 6, 2012)

Looks like the EDL are trying to start a race war in Hyde, Manchester after that young kid was beaten up.

This is someone claiming to be his uncle posting on the EDL website.



His mother has also shared this post on her facebook page. I can understand his family's grief but letting the EDL use their son's attack as a tool to stir up racial hatred is going to make it much less likely that his attackers will be caught! 

john x


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 6, 2012)

Yeah. It's bad that the young lad was beaten (badly by the sounds of it). But handing the situation over to the EDL is probably going to ensure some other "quiet, loving lad who enjoys his football and being with friends" (probably an asian one this time) is going to cop the mis-directed "retribution".


----------



## manny-p (Feb 6, 2012)

This is the boy who got attacked. Hopefully they(not the edl) catch the racist cunts that did this and hopefully the EDL don't succeed in creating a race riot/war.


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 6, 2012)

That's fucking horrific. What bastards.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> gabriel byrne as joe reilly, al pacino as o farrell?


 
re; pacino. i was referencing comic strip 'strike film'
http://www.tv.com/shows/the-comic-strip/the-strike-173370/
bit obscure but was early.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2012)

good piece by collins on snowy, infidels, uda. very interesting!


----------



## krink (Feb 6, 2012)

that kid's face popped up on my wife's facebook feed and we don't know anyone from that area at all. we're on the other side of the country. will have another look...


someone who is on my wife's friends has linked to it from someone called cheryl stringer who is the lad's mum and is she is now linking this

https://www.facebook.com/events/266409870098063/

what a shame, the edl won't help anything here. they'll just make it worse.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 6, 2012)




----------



## john x (Feb 7, 2012)

krink said:


> someone who is on my wife's friends has linked to it from someone called cheryl stringer who is the lad's mum and is she is now linking this
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/events/266409870098063/


 
That page has suddenly disappeared!

Given that the EDL don't have much of a conscience, I reckon that GMP have had a word with the family and had them ask for it to be taken down.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 7, 2012)

john x said:


> That page has suddenly disappeared!
> 
> Given that the EDL don't have much of a conscience, I reckon that GMP have had a word with the family and had them ask for it to be taken down.
> 
> john x


 

that page is back up....


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> good piece by collins on snowy, infidels, uda. very interesting!


http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1572/scottish-declare-independence


----------



## manny-p (Feb 7, 2012)

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...r-prince-treated-as-race-hate-crime-by-police



> A brutal attack on an innocent teenager who could lose the sight in one eye is being treated as a racially motivated hate crime, police said today. Trainee baker Daniel Stringer-Prince, 17, was walking through Hyde town centre with his best friend Kavan Brown when they were set upon.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 7, 2012)

EDL Police on the case,


----------



## john x (Feb 7, 2012)

Lee Englishandproud Montgomery seems like a happy chap.

He's also very stupid as Greater Manchester Police are watching the EDL pages at the moment and encouraging others to start 'terrorising these cunts' on a public forum is enough to get the police around to his door.

john x


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> EDL Police on the case,



Spot the difference. Same spelling mistake made by the 'uncle' on the last paragraph of his post. Where/were.


----------



## krink (Feb 7, 2012)

have a gander

http://www.flickr.com/photos/northernanarcho/


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 7, 2012)

Good article by Liverpool Antifascists about the EDL/BNP court case demo yesterday. Argues for a more Militant and well-conceived approach to Anti-Fascism (which is why I was surprised to see it published on the Searchlight website?):

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/news/opposing-the-fascists-in-liverpool


----------



## manny-p (Feb 7, 2012)

john x said:


> He's also very stupid as Greater Manchester Police are watching the EDL pages at the moment


 
How do you know this?


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 7, 2012)

One arrested for the Hyde attack. It's on BBC national news. So at least the EDL can't claim there's another media blackout.....


----------



## john x (Feb 7, 2012)

manny-p said:


> How do you know this?


 


john x


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 8, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> One arrested for the Hyde attack. It's on BBC national news. So at least the EDL can't claim there's another media blackout.....


EDL having mobilisation two weeks on Saturday in Hyde...


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2012)

It's like a shitter EDL or something.


----------



## john x (Feb 8, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It's like a shitter EDL or something.


 
Mock if you like but these people can put a platoon on the streets of every major city of the UK at 24 hours notice! 

john x


----------



## treelover (Feb 8, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> EDL having mobilisation two weeks on Saturday in Hyde...


 

If (some) of the family of the victims are indeed calling for 'revenge' if nothing is done, this could be a very different protest with considerable local support, worrying...


----------



## john x (Feb 8, 2012)

treelover said:


> If (some) of the family of the victims are indeed calling for 'revenge' if nothing is done, this could be a very different protest with considerable local support, worrying...


'nothing is done' is a very fluid concept for the EDL.

Yesterday they and their friends in the BNP were outside Liverpool Crown Court protesting that 'Asian men are allowed to groom white girls without fear of prosecution'. Inside Liverpool Crown Court were Asian men being prosecuted for grooming white girls.

I agree that it is worrying, though. There are a number of people on the far-right who see the provoking of a 'race war' as the only way out of their current serious decline.

Hopefully by the end of the month the foaming will have declined and people will be back to their 'can't be arsed' positions. 

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2012)

*Up coming Dates for your Diary

*27th Feb - Dispatches Programme on The Edl

*20th Feb - Bbc Programme on the Edl

*25th Feb - National Demo-Hyde Nr Manchester*


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 8, 2012)

(EDL) English Defence League
*Liverpool grooming case has been adjourned for a week after two of the barristers quit after being attacked outside the court by unknown persons please dont attend the court until further instructions. Anyone who turns up now may be arrested. Well done all who attended. NFSE*


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Spot the difference. Same spelling mistake made by the 'uncle' on the last paragraph of his post. Where/were.


to be fair it's a common mistake


----------



## manny-p (Feb 8, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *Up coming Dates for your Diary*
> 
> **27th Feb - Dispatches Programme on The Edl*
> 
> ...


Whats with being unable to list dates chronologically?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> to be fair it's a common mistake


 
I suppose I don't read enough of the places were it's 'common'.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 9, 2012)

This few weeks will be absolutely critical. If they fail to make headway here I don't know where else they can go.

It would be an appalling fact if after all the hard work from anti-fascists in discrediting the EDL over the last, a glib and flashy EDL program could undo it all.


----------



## october_lost (Feb 9, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> This few weeks will be absolutely critical. If they fail to make headway here I don't know where else they can go.
> 
> It would be an appalling fact if after all the hard work from anti-fascists in discrediting the EDL over the last, a glib and flashy EDL program could undo it all.


Sorry did I miss something? Genuine question, whats changed?


----------



## Luther Blissett (Feb 9, 2012)

EDL violence forces adjournment of Paedophile Ring trial at Liverpool Crown Court: edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl/b…

EDL (in particular Liam Wood) claim UAF attacked barrister outside Liverpool Crown Court. These photos tell a different story: bacphotography.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/…


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 9, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> (EDL) English Defence League
> *Liverpool grooming case has been adjourned for a week after two of the barristers quit after being attacked outside the court by unknown persons please dont attend the court until further instructions. Anyone who turns up now may be arrested. Well done all who attended. NFSE*


 
I assume NFSE translates as No Fucking SEnse...


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## Luther Blissett (Feb 9, 2012)

"Well done" translates as 'you fucking tossers delaying the course of justice in paedophile trial'


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## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I suppose I don't read enough of the places were it's 'common'.


How droll


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## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

Luther Blissett said:


> EDL violence forces adjournment of Paedophile Ring trial at Liverpool Crown Court: edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl/b…
> 
> EDL (in pticular Liam Wood) claim UAF attacked barrister outside Liverpool Crown Court. These photos tell a different story: bacphotography.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/…


in pic 21 there is a bnp placard in the background


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## john x (Feb 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> in pic 21 there is a bnp placard in the background


???

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)




----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

john x said:


> ???
> 
> john x


There is a placard from the bnp in the second link, pic 21


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## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> in pic 21 there is a bnp placard in the background


 
Nick is in about 30-40 pics with one....


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## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2012)

The fight grooming gangs one John.

http://www.b n p.org.uk/news/national/47-alleged-paedophiles-all-muslim-men-liverpool-crown-court


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## john x (Feb 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> There is a placard from the bnp in the second link, pic 21


I know.

What of it?

john x


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## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> The fight grooming gangs one John.
> 
> http://www.b*p.org.uk/news/national/47-alleged-paedophiles-all-muslim-men-liverpool-crown-court


Might be a bit late but you might want to break that link


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> The fight grooming gangs one John.
> 
> http://www.b*p.org.uk/news/national/47-alleged-paedophiles-all-muslim-men-liverpool-crown-court


Might be a bit late but you might want to break that link


----------



## john x (Feb 9, 2012)

I'm confused now! 

john x


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## disco_dave_2000 (Feb 9, 2012)

Luther Blissett said:


> EDL violence forces adjournment of Paedophile Ring trial at Liverpool Crown Court: edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl/b…
> 
> EDL (in particular Liam Wood) claim UAF attacked barrister outside Liverpool Crown Court. These photos tell a different story: bacphotography.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/…


 
The men in the photo linked above, were definately part of the BNP / EDL protest and NOT from the UAF group. Anyway, some of my images are here on Demotix


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## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Might be a bit late but you might want to break that link



Done.


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## john x (Feb 9, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> The men in the photo linked above, were definately part of the BNP / EDL protest and NOT from the UAF group.


 
Isn't there video of the same incident floating around?

And wasn't it Micky SDL who was arrested? Micky is a nutcase loyalist and is more likely to be a supporter of the UDA than UAF! 

john x


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## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)

http://www.bn     p.org.uk/news/national/breaking-news-charlene-downes-brother-arrested

*BREAKING NEWS - We have been told that Charlene Downes’ brother has been arrested after an alleged assault on one of the Muslim men tried for Charlene’s murder.*

Given the fact that the takeaway shop remained a centre for grooming other young girls, it is no surprise if someone has taken the law into their own hands.

If charged, we will demonstrate in support of Charlene’s brother, and we call on all patriots of all groups to join us.


 x 1000


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## john x (Feb 9, 2012)

That will be another few grand for the guy after his compensation after the trial.

You couldn't make this shit up!

john x


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## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)

they got something like £250,000 already....


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## Termite Man (Feb 9, 2012)

john x said:


> That will be another few grand for the guy after his compensation after the trial.
> 
> You couldn't make this shit up!
> 
> john x


 

Yeah but if it was a muslim beating up a white guy the police wouldn't do anything


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## john x (Feb 9, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Yeah but if it was a muslim beating up a white guy the police wouldn't do anything


 
The EDL and BNP are now claiming that police officers threatened the editors of the Liverpool Echo and Manchester Evening News not to cover the story about the Liverpool Crown Court trial! Just like they claimed that the BBC and Sky News had a news blackout over the Emma West case.

These people have to be state stooges as no-one could be naturally this crap!

john x


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## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)

reading now that this liverpool case of 11 peados could now go to miss trail....

Well done EDL


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## Delroy Booth (Feb 9, 2012)

october_lost said:


> Sorry did I miss something? Genuine question, whats changed?


 
I think there's a change in tactics. They're now predominantly attacking muslims on the basis of them being supposedly peadophiles who prey on white people. There's also the two cases of white people being attacked in greater manchester, one in Hyde and one in Rochdale, which the Daily Mail has using to incite a riot http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-attack-white-man-probed-beaten-bottle.html Now the EDL have already announced they're gonna. have a demo there, though I'm not aware of the details, and I'd also expect the BNP to turn up supporting that one too.

At the same time, there are two national TV documentaries coming out about the EDL, giving them more mainstream media coverage than at any other point in their history. This could increase their profile massively. This has come after a peroid where the EDL was looking like a spent force, with low demo attendences falling out all over the place, but this has the potential to give them a boost and perhaps change their fortunes. It's critical that they don't get it.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)

but on the other hand, if the do fuck up this 11 nonce case and cuase a miss-trail and with the Dispatches program on the 27th....


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## john x (Feb 9, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> but on the other hand, if the do fuck up this 11 nonce case and cuase a miss-trail and with the Dispatches program on the 27th....


The Casuals have just put out a statement calling off the demonstrations and saying they will only protest on the day of the sentencing.

I guess someone has reminded them of the existence of the Contempt of Court Act!

No surrender my arse!

john x


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## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Nick is in about 30-40 pics with one....


yeh. but the link went to pic 19, and pic 21 was the first i saw with one in it. and no one else had then commented on it...


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## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

john x said:


> The Casuals have just put out a statement calling off the demonstrations and saying they will only protest on the day of the sentencing.
> 
> I guess someone has reminded them of the existence of the Contempt of Court Act!
> 
> ...


nsma is rather better than nfse


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 9, 2012)

EDL now claim they made up the story about the case being delayed after a barister got hit?

fuck knows what they are on about.


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## Delroy Booth (Feb 9, 2012)

Meanwhile in Hyde... http://twitpic.com/8hpd2i/full


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## october_lost (Feb 9, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I think there's a change in tactics. They're now predominantly attacking muslims on the basis of them being supposedly peadophiles who prey on white people. There's also the two cases of white people being attacked in greater manchester, one in Hyde and one in Rochdale, which the Daily Mail has using to incite a riot http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-attack-white-man-probed-beaten-bottle.html Now the EDL have already announced they're gonna. have a demo there, though I'm not aware of the details, and I'd also expect the BNP to turn up supporting that one too.
> 
> At the same time, there are two national TV documentaries coming out about the EDL, giving them more mainstream media coverage than at any other point in their history. This could increase their profile massively. This has come after a peroid where the EDL was looking like a spent force, with low demo attendences falling out all over the place, but this has the potential to give them a boost and perhaps change their fortunes. It's critical that they don't get it.


I read the balance sheet, posted by others and it did seem EDL were on their last legs, shame if this is a boost for them, but there are numpties aren't exlcusive to one race or culture. Have the left covered the paedo-ring thing?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I think there's a change in tactics. They're now predominantly attacking muslims on the basis of them being supposedly peadophiles who prey on white people. There's also the two cases of white people being attacked in greater manchester, one in Hyde and one in Rochdale, which the Daily Mail has using to incite a riot http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-attack-white-man-probed-beaten-bottle.html Now the EDL have already announced they're gonna. have a demo there, though I'm not aware of the details, and I'd also expect the BNP to turn up supporting that one too.
> 
> At the same time, there are two national TV documentaries coming out about the EDL, giving them more mainstream media coverage than at any other point in their history. This could increase their profile massively. This has come after a peroid where the EDL was looking like a spent force, with low demo attendences falling out all over the place, but this has the potential to give them a boost and perhaps change their fortunes. It's critical that they don't get it.


there have been any number of documentaries about the bnp. i don't believe any of them has significantly increased their membership or support base. and i would be surprised if your fears were realised in the case of the edl either. it's hardly like the edl's some newcomer organisation on the scene which no fucker's ever heard of! the edl's not looking like a spent force due to a lack of media coverage, it's got more to do with structural, organisational, political and also personal issues - the last surrounding yaxley-lennon. can you give me an example of when a hostile documentary about a far-right group whose support was dwindling reversed the organisation's decline?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> can you give me an example of when a hostile documentary about a far-right group whose support was dwindling reversed the organisation's decline?


 
Off the top of my head I can't, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. A lot will depend on the tone and style of the documentary. It it portrays them in a flattering way, if it glamourises them and doesn't attempt to be critical, then couple that with the situation in Hyde an Rochdale and you might see trouble in those areas with the EDL.

Organizations like the EDL getting a platform in the national media of any kind is something I am uneasy with.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 9, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Off the top of my head I can't, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. A lot will depend on the tone and style of the documentary. It it portrays them in a flattering way, if it glamourises them and doesn't attempt to be critical, then couple that with the situation in Hyde an Rochdale and you might see trouble in those areas with the EDL.
> 
> Organizations like the EDL getting a platform in the national media of any kind is something I am uneasy with.


yes. i said "can you give me an example of when a HOSTILE documentary..." i don't think you really believe that it may be sympathetic.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> yes. i said "can you give me an example of when a HOSTILE documentary..." i don't think you really believe that it may be sympathetic.


 
In that case no, the only thing I can think of is anecdotal stuff around the Secret Agent BNP program from years ago.

I don't think its likely to be sympathetic in an overt way, but I think it might glamourise them in a "Ross kemp on gangs meets danny dyers football factories" kind of way, which is more a product of lazy, glib, sensationalist journalism than serious intent to promote them. Does that make any sense to you?


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## Pickman's model (Feb 10, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> In that case no, the only thing I can think of is anecdotal stuff around the Secret Agent BNP program from years ago.
> 
> I don't think its likely to be sympathetic in an overt way, but I think it might glamourise them in a "Ross kemp on gangs meets danny dyers football factories" kind of way, which is more a product of lazy, glib, sensationalist journalism than serious intent to promote them. Does that make any sense to you?


i can see it being shit and not pressing them, being all liberal or being like that macintyre "expose" of the headhunters, but i don't think it can really glamourise them: the edl's habit of getting pissed up before demonstrations won't, i suspect, play too well on the telly.

and if they play that mulsamic rayguns bit then it's game over


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## Fingers (Feb 10, 2012)

I think they are there where they are at the moment (not somewhere they really want to be) because they are one massive cluster fuck. Not a day goes by when they do not fuck something up or do something that courts them a load of bad publicity and aheap of piss taking.

They are demoralised but if these alledged beatings do perk them up, it will only be for a few weeks before they manage to completely fuck up again.

Even this week the paedo trainwreck thing has massively backfired on them.


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## Fingers (Feb 10, 2012)

Never underestimate the EDL's ability to complely piss all over their own Nikes.


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## john x (Feb 10, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I don't think its likely to be sympathetic in an overt way, but I think it might glamourise them in a "Ross kemp on gangs meets danny dyers football factories" kind of way, which is more a product of lazy, glib, sensationalist journalism than serious intent to promote them. Does that make any sense to you?


 
Definitions of sympathetic and unsympathetic are a little more complicated in this case.

If you follow any of the EDL/anti-EDL stuff going around you don't find pro-EDL youtube videos going around countered by anti-EDL videos. Often the antis will post up the very same video that the EDL posted as their way of opposing their ideas. Take the Liverpool Crown Court video that bob linked to a couple of pages back. That was put on youtube by EDL supporters but was posted just as much, if not more by those opposed to the EDL. Because the same piece of film is seen differently depending on who is watching it. When we look at that footage, we go 'Fucking hell what an earth are those idiots doing running around like 5 year olds shouting racist abuse at anyone with a brown face.

However to someone who sees things differently the response could easily be 'Fucking hell look at those geezers giving those fucking paki paedo scum what for. I want some of that!'

So you could have a documentary filled entirely with footage of the EDL making complete wankers of themselves which we would see as very, very hostile, but to the people the EDL are trying to attract, it would be seen as a massively effective recruitment film.

At the end of the day I'm personally not too worried about it. Dispatches has an audience of between 500-700,000. As an 'unfashionable' subject I would see viewing figures being at the lower end of that scale and a significant number of those viewers would be 'vested interest' viewers like ourselves and those involved in far-right politics. I doubt whether there will be more than a couple of hundred thousand 'normal' viewers and will certainly not provide the 'million plus' new recruits they were banging on about last month when they were appealing for donations for their new server fund.

John x


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## Fingers (Feb 10, 2012)

An update from the increasingly irrelevant Snowy



> *Liverpool 9th Feb*
> by Infidels of Britain on Friday, 10 February 2012 at 00:53 ·​Yesterday I was in Liverpool for a few different reasons, after spending sometime chatting to the lads at the grooming trial protest we made our way to Liverpool Council offices, in fact everyone that was left at the court protest came along as we were going on another issue they felt needing addressing. We asked to speak to councilor Joe Anderson the head Liverpool Council. Sadly Joe didn't come himself but sent 2 representatives. We explained to them why we had come and asked "Why are Liverpool council allowing a parade that glorifies terrorists that killed British soldiers and citizens to march through the city and read out a "roll of honour" (taking the piss to just call it that on British soil) and also at the same time refused a St George's parade last year. So are they saying its ok to honour murderers but not our patron saint? Having caught them slightly on the back foot with no prepared answers the gentleman explained that the councils role is only to grant a permit and it's the police's decision on whether the march goes ahead. Now correct me if I am wrong but haven't some councils been very active in stopping marches especially when requested by right wing groups? A number of us voiced our concerns, they took notes and confirmed they have had a number of calls on this issue, so Paul and myself left our email address's for them too reply to our questions. We will update you on the outcome.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Luther Blissett (Feb 10, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Off the top of my head I can't, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. A lot will depend on the tone and style of the documentary. It it portrays them in a flattering way, if it glamourises them and doesn't attempt to be critical, then couple that with the situation in Hyde an Rochdale and you might see trouble in those areas with the EDL.
> 
> Organizations like the EDL getting a platform in the national media of any kind is something I am uneasy with.


 
I'm not sure why you're worried that #EDL will be glamourised by the forthcoming media presentations of them.
This documentary by Swedish SVT Uppdrag Granskning on the Counterjihad, Lake, Breivik, and the "Neo Neo Far-right Nationalists" of Europe didn't (flatter or glam them up).
Read more: http://svt.se/ug/20111214110033/breivik_inspirerades_av_valdsam_brittisk_grupp


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## treelover (Feb 10, 2012)

What is this 'IRA' march the EDL are referring to?


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## john x (Feb 10, 2012)

treelover said:


> What is this 'IRA' march the EDL are referring to?


It is a commemoration for an IRA volunteer from Liverpool who died nearly 100 years ago!

Do you think someone should tell them that even the Queen laid a wreath to dead IRA volunteers from the war of Independence when she was in Dublin last year?

Just saying, like! 

john x


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## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2012)

http://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/new...rerPath=news&resourceView=video&index=1#video

*Racism must not be allowed to flourish in Carlisle, judge tells hate gang*

Eleven members of a drunken racist mob who terrorised two cafe workers in Carlisle have been jailed for a total of almost 15 years.


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## ddraig (Feb 10, 2012)

well what a bunch of hardnut coward cunts!


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## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2012)

I love the way the woman comes back at the end.....

11 on 2, how patriotic.


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## ddraig (Feb 10, 2012)

and they all waited till the biggest boy went in first
and his sidekick roughed up a sign


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## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2012)

i think one was just out of the nick for burning a koran and is ex forces... lol


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## john x (Feb 10, 2012)

Also calling them Paki bastards even though they were Turkish.

They are being hailed as heroes now, by the way.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2012)




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## john x (Feb 10, 2012)

Are the Rowley Division the ones who attacked the stall of an Islamic group who were promoting peace between Xtians and Muslims last year?

john x


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## Ranbay (Feb 10, 2012)

dunno, but they guy on the far right (get it) is this one


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## john x (Feb 10, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> dunno, but they guy on the far right (get it) is this one


 
Given that the EDL is just a flash in the pan, you do have to feel a bit sorry for those numpties who get English Defence League -No Surrender' tattoos and are then stuck with them for life!

john x


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## krink (Feb 10, 2012)

where do they get those flags printed up? it's canny big so must be a relatively specialist printer. some fuckers will take anyone's money.


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## krink (Feb 10, 2012)

john x said:


> Given that the EDL is just a flash in the pan, you do have to feel a bit sorry for those numpties who get English Defence League -No Surrender' tattoos and are then stuck with them for life!
> 
> john x


 
I don't


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## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2012)

Nah,  because when it implodes the tattoo will be a "we woz there!" badge of honour.


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## frogwoman (Feb 10, 2012)

To be fair to them i have heard of people in trotskyist sects who've got tattoos of their group's logo which then split and changed its name. Well one person anyway but Im sure there are others.


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## disco_dave_2000 (Feb 10, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> dunno, but they guy on the far right (get it) is this one


 
he was at the protest in Liverpool on Monday


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## SpineyNorman (Feb 10, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> To be fair to them i have heard of people in trotskyist sects who've got tattoos of their group's logo which then split and changed its name. Well one person anyway but Im sure there are others.


 
If I remember correctly, in a certain AFA book, co-written by a certain poster on this board, said poster talks about getting kicked out of the SWP for squadism just after he got an SWP red fist tattoo.

If we're lucky he might be along soon to tell us all about it


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## john x (Feb 10, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> To be fair to them i have heard of people in trotskyist sects who've got tattoos of their group's logo which then split and changed its name. Well one person anyway but Im sure there are others.


 
That is just so wrong on so many levels! 

john x


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## SpineyNorman (Feb 10, 2012)

john x said:


> That is just so wrong on so many levels!
> 
> john x


 
Why   I can see why someone would do it, for a lot of people in activist parties their politics is one of, if not the, most important elements of their identity, so it's not all that surprising that they get tats. A bit misguided maybe, but no more so than the bloke who gets his girlfriend's name done just before she dumps him.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 10, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> A bit misguided maybe, but no more so than the bloke who gets his girlfriend's name done just before she dumps him.


 
Or a life-size tattoo of her face on his back. 



> Unfortunately for the besotted Alan, it also backfired on a monumental scale after Lisa, 36, absconded with a 25-year-old Latvian hunk she had met at work.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e--discovers-having-affair.html#ixzz1m1Bk49uf


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## SpineyNorman (Feb 10, 2012)

LOL poor fucker must have been mortified though!


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## gawkrodger (Feb 10, 2012)

some EDL spin off appears to be angling for a demo in Walsall at the start of March. Looks more internet fantasy than anything else


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## john x (Feb 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Or a life-size tattoo of her face on his back.


Speaking last night, the jilted steelworker, said: "It's a real sickener. I thought she was happy.

"But I've still got plenty of room on my chest if I get hooked up again".



john x


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## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2012)

john x said:


> Speaking last night, the jilted steelworker, said: "It's a real sickener. I thought she was happy.
> 
> "But I've still got plenty of room on my chest if I get hooked up again".
> 
> ...


 
At least he's learned from his mistakes!


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 11, 2012)

john x said:


> Are the Rowley Division the ones who attacked the stall of an Islamic group who were promoting peace between Xtians and Muslims last year?
> 
> john x


 
Dunno, but that was a muslim sect called the ahmadiyya. Loverly and interesting people.

Not liked or even necessarily recognised by orthodox muslims of either stripe because they think the Medhi has already been and gone.

In other words: SPLITTERS!!


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## manny-p (Feb 11, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Dunno, but that was a muslim sect called the ahmadiyya. Loverly and interesting people.


Bit of a generalisation like.


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## butchersapron (Feb 11, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Dunno, but that was a muslim sect called the ahmadiyya. Loverly and interesting people.


 
Especially lovely and interesting if you're gay.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 11, 2012)

yeah, im getting my living marxism tattoo lasered!


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 11, 2012)

one advantage to following the EDL is that one can read them like a book, and see their moves coming down the track from miles away. 

One of the Daniel Stinger FB pages now has over 10,000 people, more than any EDL page post-Z Company hack I think. It's the birth of a new strategy - anytime someone pink gets beaten up(not forrun pink obviously) by someone brown there will be a decent chance of a grief junkie jerk circle from faux concerned patriots.

In the end it probably won't add up to much, but it will keep them busy for a while and their talent for over estimating everything will convince them that they are recruiting thousands more when most people just join up a page thinking "oooh...that looks a bit rum, he got beaten up" and don't think about it much again. The pages will be run by fash. Natch.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Especially lovely and interesting if you're gay.


 
Are they any more homophobic than other sects? I dunno. Of course that aspect is appalling and exists across all faiths and none. I'm of the opinion that engagement is often preferable to all out denouncement in regards to trying to mitigate this kind of thing.

ETA: A quick scan of their position reveals an orthodox line strikingly similar to some Roman Catholic stuff I was reading just the other day. Well over 2 billion people share those 2 faiths. Are we just to roundly denounce nearly 30% of the globe out of hand on that basis? In truth, many people of such faiths are far less bothered about such ropey theology than it can be simplistically tempting to think.

I recall pitching the predictable "soft on homophobia" line to a RESPECT / SWP guy some years back - he pointed out how many muslims had been out leafleting and doorknocking for gay candidates. Spun maybe, but essentially a very good point.


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## butchersapron (Feb 11, 2012)

But you don't describe other sects as lovely do you? That's the point. Apply your above logic to the edl and you end up with the exact opposite of what you actually do.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 11, 2012)

I know lots of lovely catholics, sunnis, hindus, athiests whatever. 

The Ahmadiyya are notable because of the extra mile they go to in terms of community outreach and trying to build understanding. That's why I said they were lovely. I've been to a fair few of their events and they strike me as genuine good eggs, just like so many lovely members of our human race.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 11, 2012)

To be fair I have never been to an EDL event designed to enhance community understanding. Do you know of any Butch?


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## butchersapron (Feb 11, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I know lots of lovely catholics, sunnis, hindus, athiests whatever.
> 
> The Ahmadiyya are notable because of the extra mile they go to in terms of community outreach and trying to build understanding. That's why I said they were lovely. I've been to a fair few of their events and they strike me as genuine good eggs, just like so many lovely members of our human race.


And what precisely does this have to do with my post? I pointed out that your lovely people have shitty views on homosexuality, you responded by suggesting that the ways to engage with shitty views is through engagement - and you posted this on a thread with thousands of posts (hundreds by you) doing the exact opposite and arguing for the exact opposite.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 11, 2012)

Ahmadivy too.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 11, 2012)

has anyone got a link confirming the barrister attack?


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## malatesta32 (Feb 11, 2012)

latest Malatesta!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## john x (Feb 11, 2012)

EDL protesting against Argentina today.

I see tattoo boy appears again on the far right (again!)

john x


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## Ranbay (Feb 11, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/8ijhja

NF some place or something also today.


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## audiotech (Feb 11, 2012)

The Twilight Zone.


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## butchersapron (Feb 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/8ijhja
> 
> NF some place or something also today.


14 words - 10 bodies.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 11, 2012)

Things did not go too well at the Argentine Embassy as it ended up in yet another monumental fuck up

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/argentina-defeats-edl-in-falklands-demo-fiasco


----------



## Casually Red (Feb 11, 2012)

jesus...im almost embarassed for them


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 11, 2012)

audiotech said:


> The Twilight Zone.


 
The protocols of the learned elders of Zion Mecca.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 11, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> The protocols of the learned elders of Zion Mecca.


 
that's exactly what it is.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 11, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Things did not go too well at the Argentine Embassy as it ended up in yet another monumental fuck up
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/argentina-defeats-edl-in-falklands-demo-fiasco


oh  dear! Again!


----------



## manny-p (Feb 12, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I know lots of lovely catholics, sunnis, hindus, athiests whatever.
> 
> The Ahmadiyya are notable because of the extra mile they go to in terms of community outreach and trying to build understanding. That's why I said they were lovely. I've been to a fair few of their events and they strike me as genuine good eggs, just like so many lovely members of our human race.


 
Genuine good eggs eh. Wonder if they would be that way if you tried to marry/be with- one of their family members and you were not in their sect. Also how can homophobes be genuine good eggs ffs.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 12, 2012)

I've been dipping into this thread on and off for ages, now I have this bit of bizzarre shit and general unpleasantness to contribute (found via Twitter
*@everythingEDL*):







wtf???


----------



## miktheword (Feb 12, 2012)

*Posted:* Feb 12 2012, 09:09 PM​






Advanced Member













Yes mick it was at the Argentine Embassy. Hence the heavy poice numbers. despite what some are reporting and our pics actualy show we where there. Fact.
http://www.englishpa..triot.co.uk/2012/02/12...tem-in-e,ngland/
As i arranged the event with a mate through the Met Police we know we where there and NO it was not an EDL event either



Got this above reply from Pompey Dave...

did they get there eventually then..after mistaking the street? ...or were they just across the road or something?


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 12, 2012)

miktheword said:


> *Posted:* Feb 12 2012, 09:09 PM​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Checking the photos on the link, it reveals one is taken outside the Argentine embassy (the embassy didn't have its flag out, but the plaque beneath is still visible). So yes. At some point they must have found it. Although it looks like they weren't allowed to protest directly outside as the cops are all stood there. I can guess by going on google maps 'street view' that they're later moved to across the road. The Street View images were taken some time ago and there are builders hoardings on the front of the structure on the immediate left.

On the other hand the turnout is quite poor (I can imagine anti-British protests in Argentina are far better attended). Again, it's grasping at straws by anyone in the EDL or associated groups to try and campaign around the Falklands issue. Yes, there was a conflict and if this were still 1982 and the threat of an armed event were in fact serious and credible, I'm sure the subject would be far more emotive. As it stands, attempting to divert the public attention away from more recent (and more bloody) conflicts as a way of galvanising support shows a lack of political clarity. Naturally, for them it's also lacking in the "islamic" aspects, which the war in Afghanistan contains. So in essence.....it doesn't make much sense really.


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 12, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/8ijhja
> 
> NF some place or something also today.


 
Interesting that they weren't protesting outside the trial of that cunt (and Oldham NF supporter) Gareth Meanock last year after he was convicted of child cruelty against two young boys.....

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/61526/jail-for-childcruelty-bully

Can anyone recognize the clowns photographed outside Oldham nick?


----------



## john x (Feb 13, 2012)

Good news for racial harmony in Manchester.

It looks like Daniel Stringer's family has finally told the EDL and BNP to do one!

http://www.facebook.com/groups/2152...story_fbid=107831772678092&id=100003538082443

John x


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 14, 2012)

piss poor turnout. despite claiming to be non-aligned the infidels will not stand with edl and edl hate baker and ENA. wankers.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 14, 2012)

EDL have to tell members to not get pissed up if they are going to hijack the daniel stringer do! eejits.
http://twitpic.com/8jewv6


----------



## john x (Feb 14, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL have to tell members to not get pissed up if they are going to hijack the daniel stringer do! eejits.
> http://twitpic.com/8jewv6


The GMP page on that link is a fake, malatesta! 

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 14, 2012)

Even the BNP has back out and the NWI, but the EDL and Casualfuckwits are still going, cos they can.... Divs


----------



## john x (Feb 14, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Even the BNP has back out


 
Someone ought to tell Nick Griffin that!


john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 14, 2012)

oh ta! still tho, having to tell yr members not to be pissed at something is 'chav scrotish' in the extreme.


----------



## john x (Feb 14, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> oh ta! still tho, having to tell yr members not to be pissed at something is 'chav scrotish' in the extreme.


I read that as 'chav *scottish*' which confused me as you post with a 'Scottish' style!

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 14, 2012)

we dinnae have 'chavs' up here pally!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 14, 2012)

if they turn up for the stringer thing, its gonna be a shuttle crash. family dont want to be associated - for whatever reason - as they are just bad news.
http://twitpic.com/8jucf7


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 14, 2012)

The thing is, and I stand to be corrected, that the family appear to have sort of of let the vampires over the threshold and it's too late to backtrack now.

Since yesterday there has been a firmer intent to make the main support page look less of a far right front - lots of bans for people daring to suggest the true nature of the page and admin links, a specific request not to promote the BNP, EDL (although their rhetoric appears to be flourishing)


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 15, 2012)

interesting!
http://twitpic.com/8jy3oe/full


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> interesting!
> http://twitpic.com/8jy3oe/full


 
That's very interesting indeed, sheds a bit of light on the current state of police-EDL relations. Clearly the police feel like they have _some_ degree of influence over the leadership, but can't control the members. The quote about the Tail wagging the dog is very telling.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 15, 2012)

I have heard rumblings that comedy Nazi, Bill Baker, has been nicked and had his computer seized for making threats against the Olympics on facebook.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 15, 2012)

Fingers said:


> I have heard rumblings that comedy Nazi, Bill Baker, has been nicked and had his computer seized for making threats against the Olympics on facebook.


 
Well what did he say?


----------



## john x (Feb 15, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Well what did he say?


 
Something along the lines of a bomb on the Olympics would be funny because it would kill off all the lefties and immigrants in the East End.

And also from what I have heard about him, he should be very worried that the cops have his computer!

john x


----------



## Fingers (Feb 15, 2012)

What John said^^^


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 15, 2012)

should he go to jail for saying just that though? i dunno.he's obviously a nazi cunt, but this whole sending people for jail or whatever for making distasteful jokes is something im not comfy with. id be interested to know what the actual words were?

if he's got child porn or something on his computer tho (i presume thats what you were implying?) then fuck him.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 15, 2012)

fuck him anyway, i have seen him call for the death of all muslims.... etc

hope the nasty cunt goes down for anything.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 15, 2012)

see here http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/3484367365/english-defence-leagues-staunchest-supporter-bill

fuck him x 1000


----------



## Fingers (Feb 15, 2012)

Baker has a right old whinge about getting lifted by the fuzz

http://twitpic.com/8kcavo/full

(sorry, small writing)


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 15, 2012)

john x said:


> The GMP page on that link is a fake, malatesta!
> 
> john x


 
They don't have a community tension team


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 16, 2012)

Fingers said:


> I have heard rumblings that comedy Nazi, Bill Baker, has been nicked and had his computer seized for making threats against the Olympics on facebook.


 
he has indeed sir tho not sure of content! he was in court last week but we aint sure what happened as he has been unable to post anything about it. he has also been accused of 'cancelling' the hyde thing by sundry other fuckwits.
'And our old friend Billy ‘Bunter’ Baker of the miniscule English Nationalist Alliance has been arrested and had all his PCs and things seized for making ‘unwise’ threats on Facebook. Naughty, naughty Bill. Isn’t it time you grew up and got a job? Oh no, you can’t get down the job centre because you’re in court tomorrow. Shame.'
from
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/02/05/dignity-found-dead-in-rochdale/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> see here http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/3484367365/english-defence-leagues-staunchest-supporter-bill
> 
> fuck him x 1000


 
i love that piccie, he even kept his wee glasses on poking thru his balaclava. ineptitude in action.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 16, 2012)

im surprised there have been few accusations of splitter and 'grass' about him as hes done a total morrison and been in and out of every far right group going, bnp, ena, edl, march for england etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 16, 2012)

latest 'malatesta'
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 16, 2012)

http://postimage.org/image/8w78rvt3b/


some stuff about hyde and what not.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 16, 2012)

jeffrey 'stabber' marsh has made up his own angle's harem! jings!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 16, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> jeffrey 'stabber' marsh has made up his own angle's harem! jings!


 
Needs more Dragons and shit.


----------



## john x (Feb 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://postimage.org/image/8w78rvt3b/
> 
> 
> some stuff about hyde and what not.


 


john x


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 16, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> im surprised there have been few accusations of splitter and 'grass' about him as hes done a total morrison and been in and out of every far right group going, bnp, ena, edl, march for england etc.


Thats what its all about...ohhhhhh do the....


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 17, 2012)

http://www. facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=284615188271817&id=238696516197018 (link broken up)

(EDL) English Defence League
*In October 2010 Tommy, Kevin along with approximately 15 other EDL members attended a demonstration in Rotterdam and were met with hostility by Ajax supporters. The EDL’s minibus was stoned and EDL were attacked.

Ajax are coming to Manchester United on the 23rd February 2012, kick off 8pm, the EDL would like to extend the same courtesy that Ajax supporters showed to them in their country when they come to Manchester.

If you would like to greet the Ajax supporters, come along to the Manchester United ground and show your support for Manchester.....*


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 17, 2012)

Awesome.....


----------



## john x (Feb 17, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> *If you would like to greet the Ajax supporters, come along to the Manchester United ground and show your support for Manchester.....*


 
When you think these clowns can't do anything more stupid they always pull something out of the box.

They are also going to 'deal with the IRA' and who are marching in Liverpool tomorrow as well as 'sort out' Occupy.

Absolutely bloody hopeless the lot of them!

john x


----------



## john x (Feb 17, 2012)

john x said:


> When you think these clowns can't do anything more stupid they always pull something out of the box.
> 
> They are also going to 'deal with the IRA', who are marching in Liverpool tomorrow.
> 
> ...


 
Does anyone know how to delete a post?


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 17, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> http://www. facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=284615188271817&id=238696516197018 (link broken up)
> 
> (EDL) English Defence League
> *In October 2010 Tommy, Kevin along with approximately 15 other EDL members attended a demonstration in Rotterdam and were met with hostility by Ajax supporters. The EDL’s minibus was stoned and EDL were attacked.*
> ...


 
Aye. But I don't think the EDL are going to outnumber the Ajax supporters somehow, do you?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 17, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Aye. But I don't think the EDL are going to outnumber the Ajax supporters somehow, do you?


 
They won't get any of their own supporters to turn up for this. Would you turn up, risk arrest and a beating, just to placate Tommy and Kevin's ego? It's incredibly stupid, and will drive a wedge between the leadership and the useful idiots in the EDL.

EDL members aren't interesting in picking fights with people who are capable of fighting back, as thousands of Ajax supporters will be. They're cowards who attack weak targets when they have more numbers. They have neither here, so I get the feeling a lot of EDL will just not turn up. Quite wise really.


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 17, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> http://www. facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=284615188271817&id=238696516197018 (link broken up)
> 
> (EDL) English Defence League
> *In October 2010 Tommy, Kevin along with approximately 15 other EDL members attended a demonstration in Rotterdam and were met with hostility by Ajax supporters. The EDL’s minibus was stoned and EDL were attacked.*
> ...


Its a definate goer, EDL have ideas of putting out a team of at least 50 to have a go, they are doing some reccying as we speak. On the back of last nights shenanigans in the Dam its possible that this may have frced the hand of some United but more likely to be ''up for it irregulars'' than firm.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 17, 2012)

no surrender! no liaison with plod! we march when we want blah blah oops"!   )*(   [thats a bottom hole]
'Liason meeting with GMP went really well today. *EDL have applied for a march* and due to the peaceful nature of our Leicester march it is unlikely to be refused.'


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 17, 2012)

so a few eejits from a small southern 'firm' are going to waltz into MCR and batter Ajax fans. meanwhile, in reality ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 17, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> They won't get any of their own supporters to turn up for this. Would you turn up, risk arrest and a beating, just to placate Tommy and Kevin's ego? It's incredibly stupid, and will drive a wedge between the leadership and the useful idiots in the EDL.
> 
> EDL members aren't interesting in picking fights with people who are capable of fighting back, as thousands of Ajax supporters will be. They're cowards who attack weak targets when they have more numbers. They have neither here, so I get the feeling a lot of EDL will just not turn up. Quite wise really.


 
yep, they have fared pretty pretty badly in MCR in the past, if anyone turns up, and if plod arent all over them, and city fans or utd fans dont get at them, then they shd have a clear shot at the ajax fans. )*(   - this is shorthand for arses.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 17, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Its a definate goer, EDL have ideas of putting out a team of at least 50 to have a go, they are doing some reccying as we speak.


any source or links on that big man?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 17, 2012)

from the canny lot at edl news:
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-admin-call-for-revenge-against-visiting-ajax-football-fans
its gonna end in tears.


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 17, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from the canny lot at edl news:
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-admin-call-for-revenge-against-visiting-ajax-football-fans
> its gonna end in tears.


Some would say they have now deliberately blown it to get out of turning up but I do have my ear to the ground and its gonna take a few twists and turns until the night but without talking it up too much their is a fair bit of anti racist resolve amongst Utd both shirts and lads at the moment on the back of the Suarez stuff and thats another dynamic the EDL need to understand. More traditional is for Dutch hooligans to pre-arrange a meet further a field as stadiums and their environs are so heavily policed. This is a likely scenario but with EDL their m/o is more akin to slapping scarfers. More likely as with Roma at Old T a few years back theyll be noisy around the ground but Ajax have a fierce reputation and game as fuck against bigger odds as theyve had to prove when rowing with the likes of Feyenoord, Den Haag and Utrecht etc


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 17, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> any source or links on that big man?


 I can PM


----------



## Fingers (Feb 17, 2012)

Just watching this again, they were not suppose to take the hirevan out of the country so were therefore not insured for the damage


----------



## Fingers (Feb 18, 2012)

Tomorrow's action is in Liverpool.  EDL/NWI/CxF/NEF/BNP/ETC vs some dothery old IRA fellas.  I can see some 'patriots' getting lifted by plod and others taking a bit of a shoeing.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from the canny lot at edl news:
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/edl-admin-call-for-revenge-against-visiting-ajax-football-fans
> its gonna end in tears.


 


> Organising football violence over the internet can lead to a prison sentence so the information contained in this article has been passed to Greater Manchester Police.


 
State collaboration.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 18, 2012)

i dont care how many times i see mr tommy getting his flag snatched, it still amuses me. he looks so meek and then they all run away.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 18, 2012)

fash threats about liverpool over on shirtfront and also singing the praises of emma west. she is, apparently, a hero of nationalism, ie, a drunken, loudmouthed, negligent parent! ah, boudicca wd be proud! )*(


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i dont care how many times i see mr tommy getting his flag snatched, it still amuses me. he looks so meek and then they all run away.


How femmy is his 'run' when he jumps off the coach at Leicester1 just before he gets pounced on by plod...has he got stillettos on..someone get the clip on here!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 18, 2012)

latest malatesta! read all abaht it!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## andrewc (Feb 18, 2012)

Another one bites the dust !

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...bjectid=30354474&siteid=100252-name_page.html


----------



## john x (Feb 18, 2012)

andrewc said:


> Another one bites the dust !
> 
> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=exposed-the-vile-racist-rants-of-liverpool-english-defence-league-coordinator-kurtis-cawley&method=full&objectid=30354474&siteid=100252-name_page.html


Oh dear!

john x


----------



## Fingers (Feb 18, 2012)

andrewc said:


> Another one bites the dust !
> 
> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=exposed-the-vile-racist-rants-of-liverpool-english-defence-league-coordinator-kurtis-cawley&method=full&objectid=30354474&siteid=100252-name_page.html


 
Aye, the bad people at EDL News did that number on this hapless gentleman.

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/exposed-tescos-racist-edl-security-guard-kurtis-cawley


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

Any word from liverpool


----------



## Fingers (Feb 18, 2012)

Duffy got nicked apparently, I presume NEI Paul Duffy who I think has recently come out of the nick for attacking a non-existant SWP meeting in Newcastle.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 18, 2012)

Update from Liverpool - "Just back from Liverpool Irish Patriots RFB Vol. Sean Phelan march in Kirkdale, Liverpool. A bad day for Republicanism and anti Fascism as the fascists and loyalists mobilised and were in big enough numbers and militant enough mood to stop the LIPRFB and 6 Scottish RFBs and followers getting anywhere near Liverpool City Centre. Stopped after a few hundred metres on Va...uxhall Road. While bands of fascists roamed across Liverpool where were the Liverpool anti fascists? Thanks to the 20 or so brave young men from Manchester who stood firm and came through to Liverpool as committed anti fascists -they are the future.

As far as today is concerned this is the first time fascists/loyalists have stopped Irish Republicans marching in Liverpool- they will be emboldened and confident of stopping all republican and socialist marches in future in this city."


http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=378276702200635&id=113777231983918


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## malatesta32 (Feb 18, 2012)

the eejits reckon they smashed up coaches, and the 'IRA' have been run out of the pool. media silence at the moment. nowt on bbc, echo, wirral news rag as yet! in the meantime relax with these charmers!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/dreg-watch/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 18, 2012)

bad day at red rock. or blue rock.


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the eejits reckon they smashed up coaches, and the 'IRA' have been run out of the pool. media silence at the moment. nowt on bbc, echo, wirral news rag as yet! in the meantime relax with these charmers!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/dreg-watch/


 
Just got a phone call from friends leaving the scene. Buses for the flute bands were smashed up, and the march was halted. Estimates of around 200 fascists. The blokes from Manchester were a combination of the original MAFA crowd along with 32CSM members and others. Reports of running confrontations with the Fash most of the afternoon, along side streets close to the march.

I agree with Delroy. People need to get their fucking act together to start networking and organising properly. Turning up to events and marches, whilst assuming that "fascists no longer present a threat (because the BNP are in decline, or the EDL are morons)" is just complacency and hands the opposition an easy victory.

On that latter note, the Fash apparently didn't get it all their own way today. But they stopped the march and managed to knock a few people about, which will give them cause to stick their chests out.

I think Bignose will be on later with a possible further report.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 18, 2012)

I think that anti-fascism has taken a back-seat for a lot of people because of the priority that anti-cuts stuff is getting on the left. That, coupled with the fact the EDL and BNP are politically moribund, leads to the possibility that people will ignore the EDL. Just because they're dead politically doesn't mean they're incapable of getting a few hundred morons out on the streets whenever they need to, likewise the underlying racism in society at large still exists and must be countered.

If the left pulled it's finger out 200 oddballs in Liverpool should be absolutely no problem, but we're taking it too easy.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 18, 2012)

liverpool antifascists have had a long history of successes and they have been busy recently. hopefully someone from liverAF can offer some details. nothing energises the fash like ireland!


----------



## Deareg (Feb 18, 2012)

Glad to hear the MAFA were involved.


----------



## Inigo Montoya (Feb 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> liverpool antifascists have had a long history of successes and they have been busy recently. hopefully someone from liverAF can offer some details. nothing energises the fash like ireland!


 
I think LiverAF have a great website, write excellent analysis and organise some good events but, as far as I know, they have not entered the physical arena of militant anti-Fascism at all. Which is why I'm not surprised when people have asked - "while bands of fascists roamed across Liverpool where were the Liverpool anti fascists?"

The fact that LiverAF were not able to provide enough stewards for their own gig on June 24 is telling. As such, they asked MAFA to help with security

Their 'manifesto' leaves a lot to be desired IMHO:

_Though Liverpool Antifascists cannot and will not condemn the use of force in self-defence, we are not looking to initiate violence. In fact, we hold that it is possible for the vast majority of physical resistance to be entirely peaceful. As our previous actions have demonstrated, it is entirely possible to block the fascists from view or to drive them off the streets altogether without throwing a single punch._ - http://liveraf.wordpress.com/what-we-do/


----------



## john x (Feb 18, 2012)

Inigo Montoya said:


> it is entirely possible to block the fascists from view or to drive them off the streets altogether without throwing a single punch. -


 
Yes, but only if you have the numbers.

john x


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

Manchester Anti-Fascist Alliance wasn't involved with todays action in Liverpool, as the organisation no longer exists.

Perhaps those involved in todays action were ex-members. 

Good to hear that they tried to prevent the fascists!


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm really surprised the fash were able to mobilise and actually prevent the march. I thought they'd only be able to muster a dozen or so and the police would lift them as soon as they stepped out. 

A good day for the fascists.


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Manchester Anti-Fascist Alliance wasn't involved with todays action in Liverpool, as the organisation no longer exists.
> 
> Perhaps those involved in todays action were ex-members.
> 
> Good to hear that they tried to prevent the fascists!


 
As far as I can tell, that's correct (ex-MAFA). Apparently they received some worthy praise from the marchers for their defence.

I can't comment on LiverAF, but suffice to say it's not likely they're going to be able to take on 200+ fascists if their own membership is in the low figures. So it's not entirely fair to blame them for what happened today. In these instances you must pick your confrontations carefully, and not on the enemy's terms.

What obviously is at fault, is this idea of a localised anti-fascism. Especially when the opposition are able to organize on a national level. I know some argue that it's for security purposes, but you're looking at a situation here where the fash are going to outnumber and walk all over you if they can draw crowds from far and wide.

There's also the argument that people on the left are placing their priorities on other things like Occupy, Anti-Cuts etc. Which is all fair and good, but if you're not considering watching your arse while you're campaigning on these issues then you're certainly looking to get it handed to you at some point.

No one can say they haven't been warned. The fash have carried out recent attacks on the left etc before this, and have made their intentions clear. Maybe people should stop just posting on "Still Laughing at the EDL" and instead begin talking to each other about what they can do to prevent things like todays event turning into a repeat.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 18, 2012)




----------



## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> As far as I can tell, that's correct (ex-MAFA). Apparently they received some worthy praise from the marchers for their defence.
> 
> I can't comment on LiverAF, but suffice to say it's not likely they're going to be able to take on 200+ fascists if their own membership is in the low figures. So it's not entirely fair to blame them for what happened today. In these instances you must pick your confrontations carefully, and not on the enemy's terms.
> 
> ...


 
I agree re: LiverAF. The organisation can't be expected to be stop a turn out like this.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

> Today was a massive success for all connected and united nationalist groups across the Northwest.
> 
> Around 250 Nationalists from groups of such, Scouse Nationalists NEF, CXF, NWI, Casuals United, Ex Members of Her Majesty's Armed Forces, members from the Kingo's and proud members of the public brought an end to the IRA march from Kirkdale to Liverpool City Centre.
> 
> ...


 
Liverpool EDL fb


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## intersol32 (Feb 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I'm really surprised the fash were able to mobilise and actually prevent the march. I thought they'd only be able to muster a dozen or so and the police would lift them as soon as they stepped out.
> 
> A good day for the fascists.


 
Exactly my point. The above is likely the attitude of most on the left at present. The idea that they're all jokers, who'll get lifted by plod if they try anything.

You can read all the accounts of ex-Fash to learn that they've always been (in the main) plonkers and losers. I'm reading the old Tim Hepple account again at the moment, and remember laughing at the BM leadership and assorted whackos like the "November 9th Society" as much then as I do occasionally at the NWI and EDL. They're still the same.. and some would still break your face when given the opportunity, regardless of whether we can joke about them having a fetish for Third Reich uniforms and a coke habit.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

John 'snowy' Shaw's is still in liverpool. I think they're still hanging around the pubs, Pinkham had on his fb that they were in the Head of Steam.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Exactly my point. The above is likely the attitude of most on the left at present. The idea that they're all jokers, who'll get lifted by plod if they try anything.
> 
> You can read all the accounts of ex-Fash to learn that they've always been (in the main) plonkers and losers. I'm reading the old Tim Hepple account again at the moment, and remember laughing at the BM leadership and assorted whackos like the "November 9th Society" as much then as I do occasionally at the NWI and EDL. They're still the same.. and some would still break your face when given the opportunity, regardless of whether we can joke about them having a fetish for Third Reich uniforms and a coke habit.


 
The fact that they organise everything over facebook shows their unprofessionalism. The organising over facebook was the reason why I thought they wouldn't be able to do anything without the police stopping them.

The James Larkin march (both of them) for the past two years has seen no opposition what so ever. Then they randomly manage to bring 200 people. Especially since the last attempted demos have been a wash out. I think the police will have been caught by surprise, as well as the republicans and anti-fascists.

I'm really surprised at todays events. Eating my words about what I said about the march to certain people.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/liverpool-ira-march-update/


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

> They tryed to attack us at the start, then they followed us + planked themselfs on the road so we couldny go further so we ended up turnin back round + goin the other way, polis said there was 400 of the cunts in the city centre + there wis only 180 polis


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## intersol32 (Feb 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> The fact that they organise everything over facebook shows their unprofessionalism. The organising over facebook was the reason why I thought they wouldn't be able to do anything without the police stopping them.
> 
> The James Larkin march (both of them) for the past two years has seen no opposition what so ever. Then they randomly manage to bring 200 people. Especially since the last attempted demos have been a wash out. I think the police will have been caught by surprise, as well as the republicans and anti-fascists.
> 
> I'm really surprised at todays events. Eating my words about what I said about the march to certain people.


 
Yeah. I think relying on the cops to do anti-fascist work is probably a bad idea.

Granted, the police will always be a factor that people will have to consider when confronting fascism in any militant sense. But it's naive in the extreme to think the state will step in to cover your ass.

To paraphrase an old joke, It would be a bit like (anti-fascist on phone to the police): "Hello, is that the oppressive tools of a corrupt government? I've just been assaulted by some Nazis...."


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## intersol32 (Feb 18, 2012)

Number of Irish pubs had their windows done in too. Finnegans, The Liffey plus another.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Yeah. I think relying on the cops to do anti-fascist work is probably a bad idea.
> 
> Granted, the police will always be a factor that people will have to consider when confronting fascism in any militant sense. But it's naive in the extreme to think the state will step in to cover your ass.
> 
> To paraphrase an old joke, It would be a bit like (anti-fascist on phone to the police): "Hello, is that the oppressive tools of a corrupt government? I've just been assaulted by some Nazis...."


 
I don't think once I suggested that the police should do the work of the anti-fascists or be relied upon to do so.


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## john x (Feb 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I'm really surprised at todays events.


 
I'm not.

They started talking about this on the day the police told them to fuck off from Liverpool Crown Court after they disrupted the ongoing case. They were well pissed off about that and today's march became a surrogate in the North West for them to focus their attention on.

john x


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

john x said:


> I'm not.
> 
> They started talking about this on the day the police told them to fuck off from Liverpool Crown Court after they disrupted the ongoing case. They were well pissed off about that and today's march became a surrogate in the North West for them to focus their attention on.
> 
> john x


 
Everything they've done until has been a total failure and they've been pissed off about all sorts of shit from the time they started about a year ago (IIRC). Until today.

I'm not saying today was some massive coup or a defeat of the anti-fascists, as far as I can make out no anti-fascists were turned over. But they did achieve their aim. I think this was a confidence boost they needed. 

We'll have to see if they can capitalise on it or whether they only achieved the turn out because of republican/loyalist side of things. 

Reading Pinkhams facebook he seems surprised at the numbers they got.


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## Deareg (Feb 18, 2012)

Someone who was on it reported elsewhere that it was the March organisers that agreed to turn back against the wish's of many of the marchers rather than just a police decision to stop it.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Someone who was on it reported elsewhere that it was the March organisers that agreed to turn back against the wish's of many of the marchers rather than just a police decision to stop it.


 
I've seen that too, wouldn't surprise me.


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## Corax (Feb 18, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Aye, the bad people at EDL News did that number on this hapless gentleman.
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/exposed-tescos-racist-edl-security-guard-kurtis-cawley


 
They truly are the master race.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 18, 2012)

john x said:


> Yes, but only if you have the numbers.
> 
> john x


which they clearly didnt. scouse fascists have been increasingly aggressive and LiverAF should perhap reconsider their passive resistance stance.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> which they clearly didnt. scouse fascists have been increasingly aggressive and LiverAF should perhap reconsider their passive resistance stance.


 
With respect to LiverAF, and I have a lot of respect for them, I don't think they have the resources to "reconsider their passive resistance stance".


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## intersol32 (Feb 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I don't think once I suggested that the police should do the work of the anti-fascists or be relied upon to do so.


 
Apologies. Should have been clearer. I wasn't attributing that to yourself, just an attitude that seems to exist on the left sometimes.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Apologies. Should have been clearer. I wasn't attributing that to yourself, just an attitude that seems to exist on the left sometimes.


 
I agree.


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## intersol32 (Feb 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> With respect to LiverAF, and I have a lot of respect for them, I don't think they have the resources to "reconsider their passive resistance stance".


 
Which is why people should consider establishing a solid network. So areas with small memberships can get active support, and not feel so isolated. Obvious really.


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## Red Storm (Feb 18, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Which is why people should consider establishing a solid network. So areas with small memberships can get active support, and not feel so isolated. Obvious really.


 
Obvious, perhaps, but easier said than done.


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## gawkrodger (Feb 18, 2012)

c+p from the TAL facebook



> March today....fuck me, it was nasty....
> 
> The bands lined up and the maybe 60+ loyalists/Infidels and all sorts blocked the route...sitting down on the road...after discussions with the police and the organisers...the march was quickly rerouted to turn right away from them prompting the loyalists about 100 yards away to charge the march...saying that they just stood and spat their vitriol...and the march got through...the march was taken down onto the main road into town....and the fash had repositioned themselves further down the route...the march passed c@nts waving UDR flag and an orange sash amongst many UJ's...the march reached the main body of the fash and as we passed they all followed us for about 200 yards walking along the pavement next to us... almost right on top of us but have to say the police had it boxed off...they were fucking nasty c@nts but all mouth....just about to enter the town when the police stopped the march and moved the fash on further up the road where they were met by another load of fash who had been waiting at the assumed destination point of the march...the march was then told to about turn and reports that the fash had attacked a pub and the bands buses had been bricked...
> 
> ...


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## intersol32 (Feb 18, 2012)

Interesting that, as obvious counter-demonstrators, they were allowed to get so close to the march. Can't imagine anti-fascist demonstrators ever getting that close to an EDL march.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

from what we can gather here: coaches got smashed up, 'irish' pub windows put through, march rerouted by plod and organisers, MAFA etc came over to lend support but liverAF short of numbers. fash are crowing away as this is the 1st time they have had anything to cheer about for ages following the infidels washouts and the general decline of edl, bnp etc. they have also expressed surprise at the numbers and it seems like folk from most groups turned up:
'Casuals , Football Firms , Ex Soldiers , SDL, EDL, CXF, NWI , NEI'
a rare moment of solidarity for them but as said earlier, nothing winds em up like ireland.


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## bignose1 (Feb 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from what we can gather here: coaches got smashed up, 'irish' pub windows put through, march rerouted by plod and organisers, MAFA etc came over to lend support but liverAF short of numbers. fash are crowing away as this is the 1st time they have had anything to cheer about for ages following the infidels washouts and the general decline of edl, bnp etc. they have also expressed surprise at the numbers and it seems like folk from most groups turned up:
> 'Casuals , Football Firms , Ex Soldiers , SDL, EDL, CXF, NWI , NEI'
> a rare moment of solidarity for them but as said earlier, nothing winds em up like ireland.


Ive been visiting family in Wales this weekend and been a bit incommunicado but I'd like to add a few things to what appears to have taken place this weekend.And that primarily is not to get into a blame culture or feeling guilty about it. The fash/loyalist/lumpens will occasionally have their day. Its whether they can repeat it week after week and I dont think they can. Yesterday was FA Cup 5th Round a lot of teams not playing, Liverpool playing today and as most of these EDL morons are in the main 'lads' who use these events as another string to their hooligan bow. They are a mob, poorly led and random. On occasions this has happened before...Bloody Sunday in the early 90's when C18 managed to muster 300 assorted hooligans to attack the commemoration march..also some early Manchester Martyrs marches (and a few later ones) where they would also get a decent turn out. The BNP may be now seen to be getting out on the streets to rival the EDL and I believe its what their members want as at heart they crave for this type of activity..its fundamental to fascism. But lets put it in perspective...anti fascists are in a bit of dissarray but not totally in a mess. We do need to sort out where things need to happen...this is without the UAF type of opposition which will lead people into cul de sacs. But there is a bidding war going on at the moment for the anti islamist vote...and each of the various groups are pecking away. The EDL are moronic and have a base appeal which is more akin to hue and cry than to political allegiance. If as said in previous posts even they were suprised at numbers then this might legitimately be considered a one off...and it will hurt but its not a major setback..we will lose sometimes..but what did we lose. Lets think about it. Far more important is the ability and resilience to defend our day to day activities which the EDL have been targetting. If we were to be unable to carry out even the simplest of things then we would be in trouble. ie the ocuppy groups...the CP stall in Glasgow..even UAF meetings that have been targetted. As it is now the BNP are in a financial mess and about to be embroiled in more scandal. The EDL go into next weeks Hyde event cockahoop and will probably eclipse the BNP on the day. What will be the response of the left/antifascists?..Do we want to put ourselves on offer again? I would say that events are moving too fast for us at the moment..not that we need to reflect but that we need far more understanding about how we go about it. We also have to consider the police and the dynamics of surveillance and infiltration which I know has affected activists in MCR recently. But we also have to listen to the call of grass roots activists who say engage and meet them at their level. Have the argument in the pub etc. A call should go out soon.


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## Joe Reilly (Feb 19, 2012)

Inigo Montoya said:


> I think LiverAF have a great website, write excellent analysis and organise some good events...
> 
> _Though Liverpool Antifascists cannot and will not condemn the use of force in self-defence, we are not looking to initiate violence. In fact, we hold that it is possible for the vast majority of physical resistance to be entirely peaceful. As our previous actions have demonstrated, it is entirely possible to block the fascists from view or to drive them off the streets altogether without throwing a single punch._ - http://liveraf.wordpress.com/what-we-do/


 
Weasel words.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> Weasel words.


 
and that is why they got turned over yesterday.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

Antifascists have to acknowledge that we don’t win every time. The reason why the fash got such a turnout was probably cos of soccer etc but it wasn’t organised. They were lucky like they sometimes are. They always get angry over anything irish. At 1 martyrs march yonks ago I was amazed at how enraged they were when they tried to attack us. They promptly got bounced off the pavement by AFA/RA of course but boy, were they miffed!  I was at a meeting where Adams was speaking and they were going mental on the streets all night after it. BNP are trying to harness the energy on the streets that EDL etc exploit as they are damaged financially - £850,000 in debt says Griffclops – and political work is boring. Street hassle is much more fun! This is why BNP are out on EDL stuff ‘unofficially.’ Antifascism shd not be consigned to the backburner but shd be organised for when neccesary. Like yesterday – tho to be fair it didn’t seem like it was going to be much. The worry is that they will try to recreate it in Hyde next week. MAFA be warned! And well done for those who turned out.


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## manny-p (Feb 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> cos of soccer etc


 
Are you a yank?


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

im fucking scottish ye cheeky wee radge!


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Are you a yank?


unbelievable. do ye no read the blog laddy? and cricket's ma game pal! proper true scottish game! like golf and clay haggis shooting.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

and speaking of soccer, this on anatifascists in leeds
http://libcom.org/library/marching-altogether-football-fans-taking-stand-against-racism


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## Red Storm (Feb 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> Antifascists have to acknowledge that we don’t win every time. The reason why the fash got such a turnout was probably cos of soccer etc but it wasn’t organised. They were lucky like they sometimes are. They always get angry over anything irish. At 1 martyrs march yonks ago I was amazed at how enraged they were when they tried to attack us. They promptly got bounced off the pavement by AFA/RA of course but boy, were they miffed! I was at a meeting where Adams was speaking and they were going mental on the streets all night after it. BNP are trying to harness the energy on the streets that EDL etc exploit as they are damaged financially - £850,000 in debt says Griffclops – and political work is boring. Street hassle is much more fun! This is why BNP are out on EDL stuff ‘unofficially.’ Antifascism shd not be consigned to the backburner but shd be organised for when neccesary. Like yesterday – tho to be fair it didn’t seem like it was going to be much. The worry is that they will try to recreate it in Hyde next week*. MAFA be warned!* And well done for those who turned out.


 
MAFA no longer exists. 

Main EDL page are saying there was just 58 of them in Liverpool.


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## manny-p (Feb 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> unbelievable. do ye no read the blog laddy? and cricket's ma game pal! proper true scottish game! like golf and clay haggis shooting.


If cricket is really your sport you are either english really or a posh cunt


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

manny-p said:


> If cricket is really your sport you are either english really or a posh cunt


careful wee man, dinnae push me tae far!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> MAFA no longer exists.
> 
> Main EDL page are saying there was just 58 of them in Liverpool.


 
some of the exMAFA folk went over from what ive gathered. 58 of whom?


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## Red Storm (Feb 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> some of the exMAFA folk went over from what ive gathered. 58 of whom?


 
Maybe some *ex*-mafa did. 

58 fash.



> Only 58 of us #EDL & co stopped an IRA march According to #leftits oops #leftists  but IRA say 400-1000 of us.


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## Red Storm (Feb 19, 2012)

Statement from LiverAF:



> For anybody in any doubt, yesterday was a significant victory for the far-right. They are actively pursuing a Mosleyite strategy of controlling the streets, and gaining in confidence as they do so unopposed. That LiverAF managed to get the same turnout on its own, unannounced, as the public call out did at the demo the other Monday is a terrible indictment of the current state of anti-fascism. Everyone who views it as too small a threat, or would leave the job to others, or thinks UAF an adequate response to this, THIS is where your way of thinking leads us.


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## Red Storm (Feb 19, 2012)

Just seen a 32csm statement on it. I don't know if its public yet so I'll wait for someone else to post it.


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## manny-p (Feb 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Just seen a 32csm statement on it. I don't know if its public yet so I'll wait for someone else to post it.


 
I don't agree with the 32csm and other republican groups. But I hope the antifascist movement back them up next time with sufficient folk in marches as the fash will have gained confidence from this attack and won't stop with the republicans.


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## Red Storm (Feb 19, 2012)

manny-p said:


> I don't agree with the 32csm and other republican groups. But I hope the antifascist movement back them up next time with sufficient folk in marches as the fash will have gained confidence from this attack and won't stop with the republicans.


 
Just for the record I wasn't saying I do or do not support the 32csm or any other Irish republican organisations.


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## manny-p (Feb 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Just for the record I wasn't saying I do or do not support the 32csm or any other Irish republican organisations.


put your cards on the table bro.


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## Red Storm (Feb 19, 2012)

manny-p said:


> put your cards on the table bro.


 
I like to keep my hand close to my chest in public.



> The Gaughan Stagg Cumann of the 32csm would like to salute their comrades from the manchester Anti fascist movement for their efforts against the fascist who took to the streets of Liverpool yesterday and their continued work against this element in our societies today.
> 
> The cumann will continue to work side by side with the anti Facist representatives who choose to stand firm and challenge the Fascist on our streets.
> 
> Beir Bua


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

thats a good start anyway. hyde next tho! what then?


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## malatesta32 (Feb 19, 2012)

from libcom:
'First hand account from my comrade
"What happened was the RFB leadership (Sinn Feiners) capitulated to the police and turned back from the route into the city centre, thus handing the fascists a victory. Trust me from earlier experiences the fascists were not up for clashing with a determined opposition but this is not what the RFB represented, much to the disgust of the aforementioned 20 or so Manchester antifascists who turned up to show the fash what anti-fascism is really about. A shame on the RFBs and the Liverpool anti-fascist movement."


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## Corax (Feb 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from what we can gather here: coaches got smashed up, 'irish' pub windows put through, march rerouted by plod and organisers, MAFA etc came over to lend support but liverAF short of numbers. fash are crowing away as this is the 1st time they have had anything to cheer about for ages following the infidels washouts and the general decline of edl, bnp etc. they have also expressed surprise at the numbers and it seems like folk from most groups turned up:
> 'Casuals , Football Firms , Ex Soldiers , SDL, EDL, CXF, NWI , NEI'
> a rare moment of solidarity for them but as said earlier, nothing winds em up like ireland.


Bloody Ireland, full of extremist muslims it is.


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## Inigo Montoya (Feb 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I like to keep my hand close to my chest in public.


 
Link?

Not posted on their forum yet. http://britain32csm.blogspot.com/

(Edit: Just seen it on FB)


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## Inigo Montoya (Feb 19, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Statement from LiverAF:


 
Source? Can't see it on their website. http://liveraf.wordpress.com/


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## Ranbay (Feb 19, 2012)

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/proud-and-prejudiced

Tommy Robinson is the leader of the EDL. Sayful Islam heads a group of Muslim extremists. They're both from Luton. This film tells the story of the local feud that has become a national drama.
Next on Channel 4
Mon 27 Feb, 10PM


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

This liverpool stuff only appears so important because your focus has been so narrowed down to anti-fascism. It's irrelevant. It doesn't mean the wind has changed on far-right street activity - it means nothing at all in the wider political picture. It might send about 200 people down a cul-de-sac of pointless reactive militarisation to a threat that means nothing to anyone beyond the narrow focus. Whole world of w/c politics concerns and interests out there - dig in.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 19, 2012)

it's a mixture of both though isn't it. fact is the left just doesn't have the base in working class areas, nor does it have the means and wherewithal to protect itself currently.


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

You're doing the same - identifying the w/c with the left , and then narrowing the left down to counter-protests to the edl's counter protests. This is just the result of the narrow focus - and the finger wagging in the post higher above - _the blood is on your heads type stuff,_ get a fucking grip. This is all irrelevant.

You have the answer in your post actually - look at how you get influence in w/c areas, what ties you and the community together that they'd destroy this sort of thing? It's not isolated anti-fascism like this.


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## Delroy Booth (Feb 19, 2012)

Let's have a bit of perspective please, all these events in Liverpool show is that the fash are still just about capable of making a nuiscance of themselves, nothing more. With sufficient preparation and a bit of hard work the fash in Liverpool yesterday could've been seen off, but based on previous years absolutely no-one, not even them, were expecting a large counter-demo at the march in Liverpool. It's caught a lot of people off guard, but it's not as if they're in any danger of making _political_ progress with these tactics. The people who are involved in this ad hoc scouse fascist alliance are the absolute lunatic fringe, the dregs of the far-right, they're never going to appeal to the vast majority of people, working class or otherwise. Also, compared to the humiliations the EDL and other groups have endured over the last few months, like Tower Hamlets or the pitiful NWI demos, this is nowt.

The politics of the north-west is also a bit different than the situation nationally, as Nick Griffin is re-basing the BNP in that area to get him re-elected to the EU parliament. I agree with the sentiments already expressed that they're going back to the streets, partially because that's what the remaining members really want, and because there's nowhere else for them to go because of the failure of the BNP electorally. So, they're just clinging onto the coat-tails of the EDL and the other assorted fascists, who operate in a loose coalition in Liverpool and elsewhere in the region, and they'll be backing up the demonstrations in Hyde that are coming up. Over time I suspect this will fragment into infighting and the kind of nastiness that went on in Newcastle recently with the National Front, SDL and NWI, but it's something to be keeping an eye on.

As an adjunct to this there's the EDL documentary coming out. They're obviously doing a lot of their recent stuff with this in mind, hoping it will breathe life into an organization that looked like it was going to collapse by the end of last year.


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## intersol32 (Feb 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You're doing the same - identifying the w/c with the left , and then narrowing the left down to counter-protests to the edl's counter protests. This is just the result of the narrow focus - and the finger wagging in the post higher above - _the blood is on your heads type stuff,_ get a fucking grip. This is all irrelevant.
> 
> You have the answer in your post actually - look at how you get influence in w/c areas, what ties you and the community together that they'd destroy this sort of thing? It's not isolated anti-fascism like this.


 
Hold on a minute. Anti-Fascism isn't being suggested here as an end pursuit in itself. What the Liverpool situation shows is that you need to organize properly to protect your own political initiatives. Remember the 70's squads were originally put into action to defend the political work the SWP were doing because the Fash were trying to turn them over constantly.

This was extended when they kicked everyone out, and later AFA was launched as broad based group that would confront the fascists and protect marches, meetings, paper sales etc. Granted that AFA also took an offensive position too and disrupted Fascist activity wherever it arose. Nevertheless that tends to be the nature of Fascism....it doesn't accept any political debate or opposition, so the fact that they're present within the political arena will mean that you have to "keep the boot on the neck of the snake" so to speak.

I don't see fascism as a distraction, and I'm sure neither would anyone who was going about their political activities with the threat of them coming down on your back.

Sure effective anti-fascism does take up a lot of time and resources with intelligence gathering, monitoring etc etc. and god knows there were folks involved in AFA and RA who you'd consider full-time in that regard. But it's all done with the wider political picture in mind, and that is to allow progressive working class politics to live and breathe. We can start the other debate about what or how those politics should be defined, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

I'd agree that the incident yesterday shouldn't be overblown, but neither should it be completely dismissed. As laughable as the EDL, BNP and fellow travellers are it'd be incredibly stupid to sit back and allow them to gain too many easy victories, which someone said earlier, will only allow confidence and numbers to grow.


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## intersol32 (Feb 19, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Let's have a bit of perspective please, all these events in Liverpool show is that the fash are still just about capable of making a nuiscance of themselves, nothing more. With sufficient preparation and a bit of hard work the fash in Liverpool yesterday could've been seen off, but based on previous years absolutely no-one, not even them, were expecting a large counter-demo at the march in Liverpool. It's caught a lot of people off guard, but it's not as if they're in any danger of making _political_ progress with these tactics. The people who are involved in this ad hoc scouse fascist alliance are the absolute lunatic fringe, the dregs of the far-right, they're never going to appeal to the vast majority of people, working class or otherwise. Also, compared to the humiliations the EDL and other groups have endured over the last few months, like Tower Hamlets or the pitiful NWI demos, this is nowt.
> 
> The politics of the north-west is also a bit different than the situation nationally, as Nick Griffin is re-basing the BNP in that area to get him re-elected to the EU parliament. I agree with the sentiments already expressed that they're going back to the streets, partially because that's what the remaining members really want, and because there's nowhere else for them to go because of the failure of the BNP electorally. So, they're just clinging onto the coat-tails of the EDL and the other assorted fascists, who operate in a loose coalition in Liverpool and elsewhere in the region, and they'll be backing up the demonstrations in Hyde that are coming up. Over time I suspect this will fragment into infighting and the kind of nastiness that went on in Newcastle recently with the National Front, SDL and NWI, but it's something to be keeping an eye on.
> 
> As an adjunct to this there's the EDL documentary coming out. They're obviously doing a lot of their recent stuff with this in mind, hoping it will breathe life into an organization that looked like it was going to collapse by the end of last year.


 

Interesting points, and I agree to a certain extent. But I'd also like to mention that where the "Far Right lunatic fringe" is concerned, that a large number of them have always been like this. That doesn't make them less dangerous or able to disrupt our own activities.

In fact if a group of half-wit assorted islamaphobes and Hitler fetishists can cause any disruption whatsoever without being told to fuck off home, it probably says more about our own current organizational abilities.

I'd also like to say that I don't care if these Fascist coalitions are organizing in the NorthWest, the Midlands, or the South coast. People from outside of those areas should still be prepared to stand up to them if necessary. Otherwise we just get this notion of localised, parochial anti-fascism that (to me) doesn't seem to get us anywhere.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 19, 2012)

also would like to add in response to butchers that i didn't associate the working class with the left, in fact i did the opposite. stated better above but all i'm saying is that both bases should be covered.


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Hold on a minute. Anti-Fascism isn't being suggested here as an end pursuit in itself. What the Liverpool situation shows is that you need to organize properly to protect your own political initiatives. Remember the 70's squads were originally put into action to defend the political work the SWP were doing because the Fash were trying to turn them over constantly.
> 
> This was extended when they kicked everyone out, and later AFA was launched as broad based group that would confront the fascists and protect marches, meetings, paper sales etc. Granted that AFA also took an offensive position too and disrupted Fascist activity wherever it arose. Nevertheless that tends to be the nature of Fascism....it doesn't accept any political debate or opposition, so the fact that they're present within the political arena will mean that you have to "keep the boot on the neck of the snake" so to speak.
> 
> ...


I'm seeing nothing whatsoever being suggested as political responses to the far right on this thread. It's a list of facebook screengrabs and gossip. There is not a thing political on it. 

This is not a comparable situation to  the 70/80s - there are is no mass street far-right presence physically opposing 'our side' such that we have to 'hold the ring' - 'our side' do not exist in w/c communities (which is not an argument that they shouldn't be defended). There is no fascism of that nature tom oppose today. Now, the BNP might be re-thinking (i'm not so sure) but where is the evidence that the anti-fascists are?


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> also would like to add in response to butchers that i didn't associate the working class with the left, in fact i did the opposite. stated better above but all i'm saying is that both bases should be covered.


Fair enough, how?


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 19, 2012)

again you're back on with not comprehending the purpose of the thread, which is to monitor the EDL and now the EDL diaspora. inject some of this debate if you like, everyone would no doubt appreciate it - but enough people have had enough direct experience with these groups to know that understanding how they operate is not a waste of time. i'm from the North West and believe me, EDL sympathy is crawling all over the place.


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## Delroy Booth (Feb 19, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> As laughable as the EDL, BNP and fellow travellers are it'd be incredibly stupid to sit back and allow them to gain too many easy victories, which someone said earlier, will only allow confidence and numbers to grow.


 
This is absolutely correct, and I think this is the main reason they had the demo yesterday. It was a self-concious attempt to boost confidence that the two organizations involved, the EDL and BNP, desperately need to revive their fortunes. Ireland has always been an issue they use to rally the troops, whip them up into a frenzy, but politically it does them no favours. It's not the 1970's and singing "no surrender to the IRA" in the streets today makes them look like dated NF throwbacks.

But you're right, we can't let them try and rebuild their confidence after the shitty year they've had, and even little demo's like this one have a clear affect on their self-esteem. They're going to feel empowered going into the Hyde demo, and I expect that to be a nasty affair.


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

There is a real danger of this degenerating into a discussion of how the far right can effect _'our activities'_ rather than impact on the w/c public poltical culture - another example of narrowing the focus. Given that there is a wide recognition that the left has no influence and no purchase in  the w/c then what is this concern other than a hobby?


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 19, 2012)

lots of ways, how do you think? as i say, inject these debates if you want. i have tonnes of ideas, most of them are tied down to more particular questions.

ETA that was a response to the post above


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## intersol32 (Feb 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I'm seeing nothing whatsoever being suggested as political responses to the far right on this thread. It's a list of facebook screengrabs and gossip. There is not a thing political on it.
> 
> This is not a comparable situation to the 70/80s - there are is no mass street far-right presence physically opposing 'our side' such that we have to 'hold the ring' - 'our side' do not exist in w/c communities (which is not an argument that they shouldn't be defended). There is no fascism of that nature tom oppose today. Now, the BNP might be re-thinking (i'm not so sure) but where is the evidence that the anti-fascists are?


 
You're missing the point here. No ones acting like it's Lewisham '77. But you seem to be suggesting yourself that any kind of effective defence against Fascist groups (no matter how small or wacky in outlook) isn't worth considering. Remember the mention in BTF about "not waiting for Fascist groups to be larger and better organized before opposing them"?

It's a basic (and quite logical) security measure. That's all that's being discussed here.

As for working class politics to "replace the far right in WC communities", well many of us are probably already involved in differing political projects and groups, and I'm sure we've at times covered such issues in threads that are more geared towards that discussion.

This is not a personal insult or anything by the way. But I'm guessing some of what's being said will be taken the wrong way or mis-interpreted.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> There is a real danger of this degenerating into a discussion of how the far right can effect _'our activities'_ rather than impact on the w/c public poltical culture - another example of narrowing the focus. Given that there is a wide recognition that the left has no influence and no purchase in the w/c then what is this concern other than a hobby?


 
and well for starters, i don't think the Sinn Fein marches in Liverpool are entireely devoid of a base in the working class, at least the Irish descent working class. the marches are an institution in some cities, Liverpool included, and in Liverpool it has never sucessfully been disrupted - ever.


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## intersol32 (Feb 19, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> This is absolutely correct, and I think this is the main reason they had the demo yesterday. It was a self-concious attempt to boost confidence that the two organizations involved, the EDL and BNP, desperately need to revive their fortunes. Ireland has always been an issue they use to rally the troops, whip them up into a frenzy, but politically it does them no favours. It's not the 1970's and singing "no surrender to the IRA" in the streets today makes them look like dated NF throwbacks.
> 
> But you're right, we can't let them try and rebuild their confidence after the shitty year they've had, and even little demo's like this one have a clear affect on their self-esteem. They're going to feel empowered going into the Hyde demo, and I expect that to be a nasty affair.


 
Del. Just noticed this posting, and agree with it entirely. I think we're basically saying the same thing here.


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> You're missing the point here. No ones acting like it's Lewisham '77. But you seem to be suggesting yourself that any kind of effective defence against Fascist groups (no matter how small or wacky in outlook) isn't worth considering. Remember the mention in BTF about "not waiting for Fascist groups to be larger and better organized before opposing them"?
> 
> It's a basic (and quite logical) security measure. That's all that's being discussed here.
> 
> ...


The point about self defence, aggressive attacks and being able to defend our events is basic - i hope we all agree and start from the understanding of the necessity of this. My point is that events is liverpool have been magnified because there's been a narrowing of focus onto these sorts of issues. And with this comes the_ oh my god it's your fault, _that i read earlier on this thread. The reason yesterday happened was _totally_ related to the lack of influence in w/c areas.

I know this is nothing new i'm saying, but frankly, after 7000 posts of the apolitical shit on this thread followed by the last posts, i think it does bear saying again.


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> and well for starters, i don't think the Sinn Fein marches in Liverpool are entireely devoid of a base in the working class, at least the Irish descent working class. the marches are an institution in some cities, Liverpool included, and in Liverpool it has never sucessfully been disrupted - ever.


Great arguments for orange marches. 

Aside from not being anything to do with what i posted of course.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 19, 2012)

well from what you were saying i think it would be fair to say that you believe such events would only be really significant if the organisations being disrupted had a working class base. which this one does. sooo...


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> well from what you were saying i think it would be fair to say that you believe such events would only be really significant if the organisations being disrupted had a working class base. which this one does. sooo...


Oh god, only if you're concentrating_ on the event itself_ - not the surrounding network of things that it relies on to happen.


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> well from what you were saying i think it would be fair to say that you believe such events would only be really significant if the organisations being disrupted had a working class base. which this one does. sooo...


I'm saying it has no relevance because it's not tied to popular politics - beyond an anachronistic imagination of _the streets _played though youtube. Who the fuck even knows about the edl? People invested in them - 7000 posts.


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## intersol32 (Feb 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The point about self defence, aggressive attacks and being able to defend our events is basic - i hope we all agree and start from the understanding of the necessity of this. My point is that events is liverpool have been magnified because there's been a narrowing of focus onto these sorts of issues. And with this comes the_ oh my god it's your fault, _that i read earlier on this thread. The reason yesterday happened was _totally_ related to the lack of influence in w/c areas.
> 
> I know this is nothing new i'm saying, but frankly, after 7000 posts of the apolitical shit on this thread followed by the last posts, i think it does bear saying again.


 
That's perfectly valid. The Fash are finding purchase again in some areas obviously because there's a distinct lack of any political alternative.

I can understand the blaming of events onto other things, but these are just practical or organizational considerations usually. The bigger picture is always key to the whole thing.

It's the reason why I mentioned about the UAF meeting in Leicester, which the Fash had threatened to turn over. Pointing out that if these groups had concentrated on putting down proper roots in WC communities, the guys turning up to the meeting would be defending it and not attacking it.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I'm saying it has no relevance because it's not tied to popular politics - beyond an anachronistic imagination of _the streets _played though youtube. Who the fuck even knows about the edl? People invested in them - 7000 posts.


 
again i think your incomprehension must come from you living in Bristol, because EVERYONE where i come from knows about them. they're a visible presence in my home town. near enough every time you go out on a weekend you hear an EDL chant somewhere.


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## butchersapron (Feb 19, 2012)

Hence the 58 turn out. The cultural grasp they may have is a very different thing from their real reach or the influence they have on the ground. Branding is powerful. There are still school desks with NF scratched in them from when the NF had tens of members. I suspect you have a personal narrow focus as well.


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 19, 2012)

your argument is so slippery, impossible to pin it down anywhere. so Sinn Fein does have a working class base, the EDL do have a genuine presence in the North West - but now the issue is that my focus is too personally narrow or something (??) you're just ceding ground and manouevreing responses without ever openly accepting your statements have been legitimately challenged. what is it that YOU are actually saying? all i can make out is that you don't think they're in the slightest relevant, only whenever we get into specifics it turns into this wriggly hydra of an argument.

btw i think the 58 turnout is a severe under-estimate. if you look at the video posted a few pages ago it's at least 100 or so. possibly 200. also don't know if that was taken before the 40 or so who'd been harassing the main march made it to the town centre.


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 19, 2012)

Here's a video from the moment a group of 30 or 40 shouting ijiots come bowling up. Basically if the police hadn't been there at this point the fash would have probably stayed further back. Lot of tough looking guys in the marching bands there. Looks like the fash didn't even want to try to get thru. Just stood there posturing and givin it the biggun.


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## juice_terry (Feb 20, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Here's a video from the moment a group of 30 or 40 shouting ijiots come bowling up. Basically if the police hadn't been there at this point the fash would have probably stayed further back. Lot of tough looking guys in the marching bands there. Looks like the fash didn't even want to try to get thru. Just stood there posturing and givin it the biggun.



That "police line" was so flimsy if the fash were intent on anything other than posturing they could have got at the march easily. The fact is that by the look of things they'd have got a battering from the band members .... Not seen any footage of any part of the march being attacked or this being a success for the fash apart from it being hyped up by the fash and those on the left who where nowhere near the event on the day, online


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## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> your argument is so slippery, impossible to pin it down anywhere. so Sinn Fein does have a working class base, the EDL do have a genuine presence in the North West - but now the issue is that my focus is too personally narrow or something (??) you're just ceding ground and manouevreing responses without ever openly accepting your statements have been legitimately challenged. what is it that YOU are actually saying? all i can make out is that you don't think they're in the slightest relevant, only whenever we get into specifics it turns into this wriggly hydra of an argument.
> 
> btw i think the 58 turnout is a severe under-estimate. if you look at the video posted a few pages ago it's at least 100 or so. possibly 200. also don't know if that was taken before the 40 or so who'd been harassing the main march made it to the town centre.


I don't think it's slippery. It's the same as ever. The rest is waffle.


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## intersol32 (Feb 20, 2012)

juice_terry said:


> That "police line" was so flimsy if the fash were intent on anything other than posturing they could have got at the march easily. The fact is that by the look of things they'd have got a battering from the band members .... Not seen any footage of any part of the march being attacked or this being a success for the fash apart from it being hyped up by the fash and those on the left who where nowhere near the event on the day, online


 
Obviously it's only a two minute segment. But I'd agree that in the beginning, especially those Fash by the tree, had literally no-one separating them from the march. From what friends told me (who actually called from the march) things did get a bit more hairy later on. The earlier post reprinted off the TAL forum pretty much stated the same.

At the end of the day, you can see how close they were allowed to get to the march, and whilst no doubt lacking the bottle to do anything at the point in the video above, are people willing to take that chance everytime? or shall they just wait until they're perceived as more likely to carry out these threats effectively? are they going to lack the bottle in every circumstance?

Quite frankly, it would have been preferable that the scum were chased with their arses out, up that street before they even had chance to come down it. Again, given the numbers and calibre of those shown, it wouldn't have been too difficult to do.

It's no "national emergency" or anything, but it would have at least guaranteed the security and integrity of the march, as well as putting a dent in the ambitions of any future forays in that direction.

As the old saying goes "at what point is physical opposition to Fascism to be considered unacceptable?"

As an extension of this question, it may be interesting to ask the posters on this board (given a hypothetical scenario) that if a group of National Front members were leafletting your street today, despite the general view that they're currently miniscule and most unlikely to achieve great things politically, if the chance arose to physically remove them from your area would you do it?...or safe in the strength of your analysis, would you instead stay at home and finish watching the Eastenders Omnibus?


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## juice_terry (Feb 20, 2012)

Agree with you Sol, but it's the age old thing, how many times in the past was it put to these marches about getting their stewarding sorted? And how many times were AFA/RA rebuffed ? Talman sums it up well over on TAL :
"It's all very well to call for numbers to boost the march, but mere weight of numbers is no protection against 200 fascists bent on stopping a march. There needs to be an organised FIGHTING stewards groups (i.e. these are not guys wearing bibs and pushing people into line, they should be FIGHTERS who are organised as a group OFF THE MARCH, not on it wearing useless fucking yellow bibs). A properly organised stewards group OFF THE MARCH can anticipate the fascists' moves and act offensively to combat them before they get within spitting distance of the march itself.​
This is what Red Action and AFA always organised in the past, unfortunately republicans largely ignored the need for effective physical security both on and off the marches. Now that RA and AFA are no longer there to pick up the slack, it is incumbent upon the republican movement to protect their own marches and not simply to rely on the police to do it for them."​

Read more:http://www.talfanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=7844&page=1#ixzz1muSJFOzU​


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## Inigo Montoya (Feb 20, 2012)

Cairde na hÉireann Liverpool statement:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/cairde-na-héireann-liverpool/press-release-re-vol-sean-phelan-commemoration-clarification-statement/297764246952099

Phil Dicken's (LiverAF) blog post:

http://truth-reason-liberty.blogspot.com/2012/02/fascists-score-win-on-streets-of.html


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## Ranbay (Feb 20, 2012)

how long till the EDL start burning Irish flags at demos now then?


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## Ranbay (Feb 20, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17095923

*Greater Manchester Police may seek EDL march ban*


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## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2012)

Another anti-fascist victory.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

butchers, theres no need to be soooo sarky dear!


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

plod cd use the violence on saturday in liverpool as a reason to cacnel hyde demo. the great victory backfires. of course, shirtfronters claim snowy is really seaarchlight and did liveprool on purpose!


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

EDL say BNP not welcome on THEIR demo at hyde, BNP advertising it as theirs. plod bothered and fash reckon snowy is to blame! crivvens!


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Are you a yank?


 
NOTE NEW AVATAR!


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## john x (Feb 20, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> plod cd use the violence on saturday in liverpool as a reason to cacnel hyde demo. the great victory backfires. of course, shirtfronters claim snowy is really seaarchlight and did liveprool on purpose!


I'm sure the EDL's call to attack Ajax supporters at Old Trafford on Thursday won't have helped! 

john x


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## john x (Feb 20, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> NOTE NEW AVATAR!


 
Are you SDL now Malatesta? 

john x


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

'no surrendererer ya bass! im english til im scots' ... downs bottle of bucky and boaks ...


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

john x said:


> Are you SDL now Malatesta?
> 
> john x


aye and this is my division!


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## intersol32 (Feb 20, 2012)

The LiverpoolAF statement pretty much says it all (earlier posted by Inigo):

http://truth-reason-liberty.blogspot.com/2012/02/fascists-score-win-on-streets-of.html

The CNE statement is quite weak, and reflects what Delroy was saying about the lack of Republican Marches in the last number of years to adequately steward or defend themselves. I think if that same statement were read out to Republicans across the water (basically asking attendees to "fill in a crime report sheet" telling the cops to investigate, and protect the marches in future) they'd probably look at you cross eyed.

It's true that this was an inherent problem between AFA/RA and those considered to be the representatives of the Provisional movement in Britain. In fact they generally treated us with almost outright contempt, despite saving their asses on several different occasions. This was particularly the case around the time of the GFA and they were looking to present a more acceptable public image. We were looked down upon as either troublemakers, or (laughably) "subversives" - the latter of which was used against us during the Saoirse campaign, from what I remember.


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## john x (Feb 20, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> those considered to be the representatives of the Provisional movement in Britain. In fact they generally treated us with almost outright contempt, despite saving their asses on several different occasions.


 
In my experience, most Republican representatives in England during the 80s and 90s were complete tossers.

john x


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

do we have defnitive numbers? so far ive clocked 58, 100-200, 800-1000 etc. 1 pic of about 50 odd which im prone to believe.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

sobering post from LiverAF. local groups ready to respond to national callouts.


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## john x (Feb 20, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> do we have defnitive numbers? so far ive clocked 58, 100-200, 800-1000 etc. 1 pic of about 50 odd which im prone to believe.


It is complicated by the fact that there were two distinct groups. One that claimed to have stopped the march and another that occupied the rally point.

john x


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

LiverAF say 150-200. sounds about right.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

infidels trying to round up numbers for scotland on saturday thus splitting the numbers for EDL/BNP demo in Hyde. infidels made overtures to the SDL but steven jacobs fucked snowy off. they will link up with loyalists in glasgow no doubt. skinter or less dedicated infidels may pop along to hyde if it goes ahead.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

also someone on facebook mentioned that the celtic soccer team are playing at home!


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## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2012)

I saw some gnomes on the roof talking about going poundland,


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

butchers, the point is that the infidels will see celtic fans as legitimate targets.


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## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2012)

That's not really  a point, its a description of ongoing bollocks. As is this whole shit thread.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

after saturdays fiasco they will be seeking 'IRA' targets or 'sympathisers.' which they see celtic fans as. (also dont tell em the IRA arent around anymore!!!)


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## bignose1 (Feb 20, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I saw some gnomes on the roof talking about going poundland,


 Elfish Dwarfence League....


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## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> after saturdays fiasco they will be seeking 'IRA' targets or 'sympathisers.' which they see celtic fans as. (also dont tell em the *IRA arent around anymore*!!!)


 
splinter groups are


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

yes but the provos - whom they refer to - assimilated into the political process years ago and decommissioned their weapons. the splinter groups dont tend to operate on the mainland and are fairly wee. so shouting 'no surrender to the IRA' is essentially meaningless.


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## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2012)

and the IRA didn't really out themselves by opposing twats. They left that to the rest of you.


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## intersol32 (Feb 20, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yes but the provos - whom they refer to - assimilated into the political process years ago and decommissioned their weapons. the splinter groups dont tend to operate on the mainland and are fairly wee. so shouting 'no surrender to the IRA' is essentially meaningless.


 
The whole "no surrender to the IRA" is pretty much extended all the way across their retarded political spectrum. Which in the eyes of most Fascists and Loyalists means anything from Irish Catholics, Celtic fans, Irish Language or culture through to Sinn Fein MP's and other Irish Republicans (armed or unarmed).

Effectively it's just another term for hating "taigs" most of the time.

By the way, isn't that EDL BBC documentary meant to be on tonight? I can only see the Panorama one on alcoholics at present.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2012)

yeah as said before nothing riles em up more than anything to do with ireland.


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## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yes but the provos - whom they refer to - assimilated into the political process years ago and decommissioned their weapons. the splinter groups dont tend to operate on the mainland and are fairly wee. so shouting 'no surrender to the IRA' is essentially meaningless.


Thats what they mean they are daft cunts.


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## john x (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> splinter groups are


 
Splinter groups who have very few weapons, no explosives to speak of and most importantly little or no support from the people they claim to represent.

john x


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## Ranbay (Feb 20, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> The whole "no surrender to the IRA" is pretty much extended all the way across their retarded political spectrum. Which in the eyes of most Fascists and Loyalists means anything from Irish Catholics, Celtic fans, Irish Language or culture through to Sinn Fein MP's and other Irish Republicans (armed or unarmed).
> 
> Effectively it's just another term for hating "taigs" most of the time.
> 
> By the way, isn't that EDL BBC documentary meant to be on tonight? I can only see the Panorama one on alcoholics at present.


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cl48b


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## starfish (Feb 20, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> butchers, the point is that the infidels will see celtic fans as legitimate targets.


 
At an EDL/ENA march in Brighton the other year, they did actually chant "Are you Celtic in disguise" at the assorted people/groups who were there opposing them. Admittedly there are quite a few of us down here & i imagine i wasnt the only one in attendence.


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## Anudder Oik (Feb 20, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> By the way, isn't that EDL BBC documentary meant to be on tonight? I can only see the Panorama one on alcoholics at present.


 
Sounds like the right documentary to me.


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## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

john x said:


> Splinter groups who have very few weapons, no explosives to speak of and most importantly little or no support from the people they claim to represent.
> 
> john x


Think you will find that the 32csm support some of the splinter groups. They were at the march in liverpool.


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## intersol32 (Feb 20, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cl48b


 
Looks like a pile of shite to be honest. Like something you'd read in The Guardian Weekend magazine.


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## cantsin (Feb 20, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cl48b


 
blimey, provocative little clip on there ....not sure whats-her-name needed to be getting in the face of what was obviously a hardline Muslim woman so much , it's obvious whats going to happen, and no doubt the 'dress code' was thought about , carefully/planned for effect.

Tho. no sympathy for the muslim woman with her medieval bullshit either.

Am assuming all this will be balanced with EDL goons making arses of themselves in the full length, but one way traffic in that clip for sure.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

cantsin said:


> blimey, provocative little clip on there ....not sure whats-her-name needed to be getting in the face of what was obviously a hardline Muslim woman so much , it's obvious whats going to happen, and no doubt the 'dress code' was thought about , carefully/planned for effect.
> 
> Tho. no sympathy for the muslim woman with her medieval bullshit either.
> 
> Am assuming all this will be balanced with EDL goons making arses of themselves in the full length, but one way traffic in that clip for sure.


 
She reminds me of bianca off eastenders.lol


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> She reminds me of bianca off eastenders.lol


 
all red head working class women look the same to you ?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

cantsin said:


> all red head working class women look the same to you ?


She has the same voice when she gets pissed off.


----------



## Deareg (Feb 20, 2012)

john x said:


> Splinter groups who have very few weapons, no explosives to speak of and most importantly little or no support from the people they claim to represent.
> 
> john x


That is largely true, but there is very little outright hostility towards them either, despite what Sinn Fein say.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Think you will find that the 32csm support some of the splinter groups. They were at the march in liverpool.


No they werent.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> No they werent.


aye they were


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> No they werent.



What makes you say they wasn't?


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 20, 2012)

Considering it was the 32CSM members who phoned me from the march itself, I'd say suggestions to the contrary would be a tad outlandish.

Let's stick to the topic of the thread folks.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

I saw a 32CSM member. He wasnt on the march he was coming out of a pub as the march went past. He didnt join the march. As far as im aware the Manchester lads who were through werent 32CSM members, but given the penchant for false claims of 32CSM Britain lol im sure a whole squad were through in cunning disguise.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> I saw a 32CSM member. He wasnt on the march he was coming out of a pub as the march went past. He didnt join the march. As far as im aware the Manchester lads who were through werent 32CSM members, but given the penchant for false claims of 32CSM Britain lol im sure a whole squad were through in cunning disguise.


You have been proven to be talking shite pal.


----------



## john x (Feb 20, 2012)

With the far-right's new found confidence after last Saturday, they now want to march on Hitler's birthday this year.

I shit you not!

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/...-seek-permission-to-march-on-hitlers-birthday

john x


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 20, 2012)

john x said:


> With the far-right's new found confidence after last Saturday, they now want to march on Hitler's birthday this year.
> 
> I shit you not!
> 
> ...


 
Getting cocky aren't they. What a lie/excuse. How many people even know that was the date the SNP was founded?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> You have been proven to be talking shite pal.


You clown you are supposed to offer some proof to refute what i posted. I was there as were a few other non aligned lads who are anti fascists. 32CSM Britain were not there, you and your organisation in England are fantasists. GIRFUY.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Getting cocky aren't they. What a lie/excuse. How many people even know that was the date the SNP was founded?


Maybe the Brit left scum can join their fellow British nationalists to defend the union?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Maybe the Brit left scum can join their fellow British nationalists to defend the union?


 
Go fuck yourself lad, I've never defended the fucking union in my life. Calling the british left scum? Have a fucking word with yourself.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 20, 2012)

From what I've seen on this documentary on BBC3 so far it's looking very positive for the edl. loads of people on twitter saying they're gonna join up now.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Go fuck yourself lad, I've never defended the fucking union in my life. Calling the british left scum? Have a fucking word with yourself.


Thats exactly what they are and if you have never defended the Brutish state then thats you exonerated ya cunt.


----------



## JHE (Feb 20, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> From what I've seen on this documentary on BBC3 so far it's looking very positive for the edl.


 
Nah, it has presented the very off-putting face of the most outspoken Al-Mu lot, but mostly it's fairly standard Islamophile stuff. There's one point on which I agree with the gobby Al-Mu boys: Stacey Dooley is extremely naive!


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> You clown you are supposed to offer some proof to refute what i posted. I was there as were a few other non aligned lads who are anti fascists. 32CSM Britain were not there, you and your organisation in England are fantasists. GIRFUY.




How come they said they were in Liverpool on their blogspot?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

Red Storm all i saw was an inebriated member who does fuck all but fall out of pubs. I was a wee bit worried about him and his equally gormless sidekick as he was wearing a Celtic baseball cap and heading blithely in the direction of the fash on their way to the pubs in town. As for why they put it up, i can only assume - unless they were through in covert mode then they fancied claiming a group of lads from Manchester who are anti fascists were theirs - so as to look big and active.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Thats exactly what they are and if you have never defended the Brutish state then thats you exonerated ya cunt.


 
as it's a slow monday night, can you be arsed to talk us through your 'British Left are scum' theory ?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

*fiannanahalba is wanting a fight with me for calling him out on what he wrote. Dafty.*


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 20, 2012)

"ignorance is what causes Extremism"

/End


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> *fiannanahalba is wanting a fight with me for calling him out on what he wrote. Dafty.*


I have been very decent and given you my phone number and explained we can have a tete-a-tete in Liverpool or Scotland? You decide? Am i a liar?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> From what I've seen on this documentary on BBC3 so far it's looking very positive for the edl. loads of people on twitter saying they're gonna join up now.


Aye it was a piss poor documentary. She was angry that the muslim guy was calling british soldiers baby killers and murderers. What a fucking cheek


----------



## JHE (Feb 20, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> "ignorance is what causes Extremism"
> 
> /End


 
Yeah, I thought Stacey Dooley was being too harsh on herself with that conclusion.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> I have been very decent and given you my phone number and explained we can have a tete-a-tete in Liverpool or Scotland? You decide? Am i a liar?


I called you out on that fact. I don't want to get in a fight with a comrade, won't be calling you.

p.s- I don't think you are a lier. Just wrong on that fact.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> "ignorance is what causes Extremism"
> 
> /End


 
edit. you were taking the piss .slow night, as I say. ( goes to empty washing machine.literally)


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

You called no-one out - i was at the march - were you? Now fuck off you fantasist.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> You called no-one out - i was at the march - were you? Now fuck off you fantasist.


I don't have to have been on the march to know that 32csm folk were there.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Maybe the Brit left scum can join their fellow British nationalists to defend the union?


What the fuck is this comment all about btw?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

cantsin said:


> as it's a slow monday night, can you be arsed to talk us through your 'British Left are scum' theory ?


Certainly. They prop up the imperialist and capitalist British state amongst a section of duped workers in Scotland, England and Wales.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 20, 2012)

cantsin said:


> edit. you were taking the piss .slow night, as I say. ( goes to empty washing machine.literally)


 
you lost me there.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> I don't have to have been on the march to know that 32csm folk were there.


You are a joke. Do you believe everything people tell you?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> You are a joke. Do you believe everything people tell you?


I believe trusted comrades. But if you are so adamant that they were not on the actual march I will take that into account.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Certainly. They prop up the imperialist and capitalist British state amongst a section of duped workers in Scotland, England and Wales.


What groups? What leftists do this?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

Thanks, that was big of you. So when i tell you that i was looking for them and the only one i saw was coming out of a pub with his drinking buddy and they didnt join the march but headed off to the pubs in town - walking along Vauxhall Road, you believe me?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Thanks, that was big of you. So when i tell you that i was looking for them and the only one i saw was coming out of a pub with his drinking buddy and they didnt join the march but headed off to the pubs in town - walking along Vauxhall Road, you believe me?


Well I believe that you saw that. But you know there could be other ones you didnt catch sight of on the march.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> What groups? What leftists do this?


Fuck sake. The alphabet fucking soup of the Brit left. Its easier to explain by mentioning those that dont, three cheers for them lol- RCG/FRFI, ISG, SWP and eh thats about it. That leaves most of the other 57 varieties of Brit left against Scottish independence.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Fuck sake. The alphabet fucking soup of the Brit left. Its easier to explain by mentioning those that dont, three cheers for them lol- RCG/FRFI, ISG, SWP and eh thats about it. That leaves most of the other 57 varieties of Brit left against Scottish independence.


Lots of folk are non aligned and don't give two fucks what these so called leftist parties say.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Well I believe that you saw that. But you know there could be other ones you didnt catch site of on the march.


The march wasnt that big. Iwas at the back with non aligned anti fascists. The rest were entirely Sinn Fein/Cairde na hEireann and their RFbS, most of which i know quite well.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 20, 2012)

w





fiannanahalba said:


> Certainly. They prop up the imperialist and capitalist British state amongst a section of duped workers in Scotland, England and Wales.


 
impossible to prove/disprove, natch, so keepiing it simple, in the long history of Britains imperial/capitalist past, are there any British groups/organistations/parties you could point to and say they attempted not to " prop up the imperialist and capitalist British state amongst a section of duped workers in Scotland, England and Wales" ?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> The march wasnt that big. Iwas at the back with non aligned anti fascists. The rest were entirely Sinn Fein/Cairde na hEireann and their RFbS, most of which i know quite well.


Ok. But there was 32csm folk around the march then?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

Ok Manny so are we meeting up for that pint?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Ok. But there was 32csm folk around the march then?


Are you on something? No there fucking wasnt- any anywhere near the fucking march. Maybe they will claim they were all sitting off somewhere.............like at fucking home.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Ok Manny so are we meeting up for that pint?


No I don't want to get stabbed.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Are you on something? No there fucking wasnt- any anywhere near the fucking march. Maybe they will claim they were all sitting off somewhere.............like at fucking home.


Okay fair enough.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

cantsin said:


> w
> 
> impossible to prove/disprove, natch, so keepiing it simple, in the long history of Britains imperial/capitalist past, are there any British groups/organistations/parties you could point to and say they attempted not to " prop up the imperialist and capitalist British state amongst a section of duped workers in Scotland, England and Wales" ?


Yes. In Scotland the SWRP- MacLean's Party, the original Scottish Labour Party formed in the 1880s, a big section of the ILP Scotland right up to WW2, the Scottish Socialist Party mk2 and mk3 [the last one], SRSP,SRSM today, Workers Party of Scotland [defunct now] etc etc  Do you want those who were pro Scottish independence in England as well?


----------



## JHE (Feb 20, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Fuck sake. The alphabet fucking soup of the Brit left. Its easier to explain by mentioning those that dont, three cheers for them lol- RCG/FRFI, ISG, *SWP* and eh thats about it. That leaves most of the other 57 varieties of Brit left against Scottish independence.


 
When did the Social Workers decide they wanted Scottish independence? I thought their line was that Scotland's right to secede must be accepted, but they don't favour the exercise of that right. (They are in a tricky position, though, being members of Big Tommy's pro-separatist little party.)


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 20, 2012)

JHE said:


> When did the Social Workers decide they wanted Scottish independence? I thought their line was that Scotland's right to secede must be accepted, but they don't favour the exercise of that right. (They are in a tricky position, though, being members of Big Tommy's pro-separatist little party.)


Recently they issued a statement in the Social Work News saying that all Social Workers should support a yes vote in the 2014 referendum on the grounds of anti imperialism, that Scottish independence results in the end of the British state. Some Scottish Social Workers that i have had the misfortune to engage with have been either indifferent or even hostile. I will be sending Lord Acton's Grandson a stern email if it continues.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 21, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Maybe the Brit left scum can join their fellow British nationalists to defend the union?


 
You're a bit of a penis aren't you?


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm getting the distinct feeling this "Fiannanahalba" chap is acting up a bit, so I'd like to interject.

Fiannanahalba. If you'd like to start a thread of your own regarding the British State and the Left's alleged support for the Union etc. then I'd suggest you do it. In fact I'm certain it would be an interesting discussion and would attract plenty of input from people on here. This is currently a thread about the EDL and you seem to be sidetracking the debate into other areas.

Also, could you please refrain from personal insults or drawing people into direct personal slagging matches. Not always easy to do I admit, but one that at least shows that everyone on here is capable of adult and disciplined behaviour.

U75 isn't S****front y'know.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 21, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Fuck sake. The alphabet fucking soup of the Brit left. Its easier to explain by mentioning those that dont, three cheers for them lol- RCG/FRFI, ISG, SWP and eh thats about it. That leaves most of the other 57 varieties of Brit left against Scottish independence.


 
Most of us couldn't give a flying fuck either way. And you're coming across as an utter twat on this thread - offering people out on the internet - what the fuck is that all about?


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 21, 2012)

Any more responses to coverage of the EDL on that documentary tonight? I've been at work most of the evening but would be interested in anyone's take on it.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 21, 2012)

Caught about 10 minutes of it - from what I saw she basically took everyone, the EDL and the loons they claim to oppose included, at their word. If what I saw is anything to go by its impact on the EDL, if there is any, will be positive.


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 21, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Caught about 10 minutes of it - from what I saw she basically took everyone, the EDL and the loons they claim to oppose included, at their word. If what I saw is anything to go by its impact on the EDL, if there is any, will be positive.


 
Fuck me. Typical liberal "current affairs" journalism. Does no-one have the balls to say they're all talking complete shit?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 21, 2012)

To be fair I only caught a bit of it so I suppose it could have got better later on, I'm not optimistic on that front though.


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 21, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> To be fair I only caught a bit of it so I suppose it could have got better later on, I'm not optimistic on that front though.


 
Aye. She definitely doesn't look like a fucking John Pilger, or Robert Fisk so I'm not exactly expecting searing critiques or amazing insights. haha.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 21, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Aye. She definitely doesn't look like a fucking John Pilger, or Robert Fisk so I'm not exactly expecting searing critiques or amazing insights. haha.


 
Just a shitload of free publicity and no mention of any opposition to the EDL outside of the muslim fundamentalist brigade. Which frames it in a "fundamentalists vs EDL" way, which will benefit the EDL, coz even they look good compared to those nutters


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 21, 2012)

manny-p said:


> She reminds me of bianca off eastenders.lol


Stop taking the mickaaaaayyy


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 21, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> you lost me there.


He likes to put a bit of spin on things


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 21, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Any more responses to coverage of the EDL on that documentary tonight? I've been at work most of the evening but would be interested in anyone's take on it.


Love gingers....but she was out of her League tonight


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Any more responses to coverage of the EDL on that documentary tonight? I've been at work most of the evening but would be interested in anyone's take on it.


 
It showed some Muslims are racist radical cunts, it showed some where nice people, it showed some people didn’t know fuck all about Islam but stood against it, it showed that thick cunts like Tommy think Sharia means just cutting off hands and sleeping with kids. other than Tommy or Kev they didn’t speak to any other EDL members.

the EDL seem to be hyped up about Dispatches on Monday now, but I can't honestly think for the last time Dispatches did a show about how cool something was and that you should totally join like.


----------



## john x (Feb 21, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> but I can't honestly think for the last time Dispatches did a show about how cool something was and that you should totally join like.


 
As I pointed out a few pages back though, it's not as simple as that.

One man's 'complete knob head' is another man's 'true patriot'. I think the only way a programme like that would do the EDL any harm would be if it dropped the politics altogether and concentrated solely on issues like the merchandise scam, the number of paedophiles and other sex offenders among their ranks and the growing number of EDL supporters in jail for a variety of violent crimes, most of whom are ignored by the leadership.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2012)

john x said:


> As I pointed out a few pages back though, it's not as simple as that.
> 
> One man's 'complete knob head' is another man's 'true patriot'. I think the only way a programme like that would do the EDL any harm would be if it dropped the politics altogether and concentrated solely on issues like the merchandise scam, the number of paedophiles and other sex offenders among their ranks and the growing number of EDL supporters in jail for a variety of violent crimes, most of whom are ignored by the leadership.
> 
> john x


 
Will have to wait and see then, i was thinking it would be more along the lines of they are really racist thugs, nicked for this and that, shots of them getting pissed/coked up and shouting racist shit. Either way im hoping it will be more ballanced than last nights show which we never saw and EDL members on.


----------



## romeo2001 (Feb 21, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Caught about 10 minutes of it - from what I saw she basically took everyone, the EDL and the loons they claim to oppose included, at their word. If what I saw is anything to go by its impact on the EDL, if there is any, will be positive.


 
Yeah that sums it up for me - she really bizarrely took everyone at their word - even giving really impressed looks at edl et al claims to want to really all get on etc.

Watched it with my housemate who is edl's typical target group and sad to say he thought stephen lennon came across really well (they seemed to make him out as some sort of martyr in luton)

Thought it was weird how she made a big thing about how she was friends with him and then when they finally met up he seemed to be reluctant to acknowledge that.  The most telling point was probably when she congratulated him on saying that there were good muslims - saying she'd never heard him say that before.

When you consider they are basically a fascist organisation its scary how much time they were given to get across there view point really.


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 21, 2012)

They're getting far to much academic and documentary attention for what they are. 

If this is what theyre like with the EDL they must have been going mad for the NF and BNP back in the day (?).


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 21, 2012)

romeo2001 said:


> Yeah that sums it up for me - she really bizarrely took everyone at their word - even giving really impressed looks at edl et al claims to want to really all get on etc.
> 
> Watched it with my housemate who is edl's typical target group and sad to say he thought stephen lennon came across really well (they seemed to make him out as some sort of martyr in luton)
> 
> ...


If she's a documentary maker then I wouldnt put this effort on a CV. When you think of the docca makers in the world especially women who go under cover in represssive states for their story then she should hang her head in shame...she's still fit as fuck but thats beside the point.


----------



## romeo2001 (Feb 21, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> If she's a documentary maker then I wouldnt put this effort on a CV. When you think of the docca makers in the world especially women who go under cover in represssive states for their story then she should hang her head in shame...she's still fit as fuck but thats beside the point.


 shes is definitely fit as fuck -and not sure theres any other reason shes on telly!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2012)

EDL more than ever.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 21, 2012)

romeo2001 said:


> shes is definitely fit as fuck -and not sure theres any other reason shes on telly!


I hated her. She was outraged that those muslim lads called British soldiers murderers and baby killers. She actually thinks they are heroes and basically said it. Also when that young guy was saying that the americans are going around installing puppet rulers she said they are fighting a war on terrorism. What a fucking cunt!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 21, 2012)

Is there any point in complaining to the BBC? And should we now consider Stacey Dooley a pro-EDL individual, and as such a legitimate target for anti-fascist campaigning and activism?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2012)

We should do a demo at the BBC or sumthin,


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 21, 2012)

Also, anyone know the details of the producers of the show? Probably worth circulating them around, someone had to have seen it and given it a green light.


----------



## FNG (Feb 21, 2012)

Better to let this program slip into deserved obscurity than give it the oxygen of publicity through notoriety,that complaining will provide


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 21, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Is there any point in complaining to the BBC? And should we now consider Stacey Dooley a pro-EDL individual, and as such a legitimate target for anti-fascist campaigning and activism?


 
I understand what you're saying but I'd like to think our campaigning and antifascist activism may be better served by establishing better structures and links with each other....or helping embed antifascism within working class communities that the EDL and BNP are currently attempting to recruit from.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 21, 2012)

well naturally intersol32 I would agree with every word of that, but on the other hand if the BBC is consistently giving a recruiting platform to these bastards are we supposed to just do nothing and hope for the best? This woman and that documentary has done more to promote the EDL in recent months than a thousand high street stalls and shitty marches could've hoped to have done, and no-one would object to a counter-demo at a high-street stall or demo would they?

If the BBC is going to give an uncritical platform to the EDL then that's a _massive_ problem and we must deal with it.


----------



## krink (Feb 21, 2012)

how many people saw it? it was only on bbc3 so can't have been many outside of those who already had an interest one way or another. forget it, it was pants on every level.


----------



## friedaweed (Feb 21, 2012)

kinell she obvs didn't have Kate Aidie's wardrobe assistant. A BBC programme on extremism, delivered by an extremely thick person


----------



## Corax (Feb 21, 2012)

AFAIA Stacey Dooley's CV isn't what one might expect of an investigative reporter, so it's hardly a surprise.  Planning to watch it a bit later.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 21, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> Ok Manny so are we meeting up for that pint?


 oh come on, pack it in, its daft people!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 21, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It showed some Muslims are racist radical cunts, it showed some where nice people, it showed some people didn’t know fuck all about Islam but stood against it, it showed that thick cunts like Tommy think Sharia means just cutting off hands and sleeping with kids. other than Tommy or Kev they didn’t speak to any other EDL members.
> 
> the EDL seem to be hyped up about Dispatches on Monday now, but I can't honestly think for the last time Dispatches did a show about how cool something was and that you should totally join like.


 
ta bob, that means i dont have to sit thru the pile of keech!


----------



## Corax (Feb 21, 2012)

Corax said:
			
		

> AFAIA Stacey Dooley's CV isn't what one might expect of an investigative reporter, so it's hardly a surprise.  Planning to watch it a bit later.



Fuck me. The first 15 minutes may as well have been a recruitment campaign for the EDL.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 21, 2012)

Corax said:


> Fuck me. The first 15 minutes may as well have been a recruitment campaign for the EDL.


 
it's 99% muslims and 1% chat with Kev and Steven.


----------



## josef1878 (Feb 21, 2012)

krink said:


> how many people saw it? it was only on bbc3 so can't have been many outside of those who already had an interest one way or another. forget it, it was pants on every level.



Exactly what i thought. One hour of my life i won't get back. If somebody gets the heads up on something similar coming up soon, please keep it to yourself.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 21, 2012)

'likes' went up 38 on their Facebook page after the show.

12 months ago they would have gone up hundreds if they were on TV, even when shown in a bad light.


----------



## IC3D (Feb 22, 2012)

I'm going to say that the Luton doc was a good thing presented by a clearly non middle class woman makes a refreshing change, I don't care about her analysis or if some people think it was a recruiting tool for the EDL who number dozens at most. The fact is this there is an elephant in the room and hopefully Muslims and Christians hmm watch this and get some empathy for the other because both sides have VALID worries frankly and the more its hidden the more the scum control the streets, although no one saw it cos it was on bbc3.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 22, 2012)

I don't agree with the above, I don't think the kind of uncritical approach she took (to all sides of the debate, EDL, Muslim loons, normal Muslims, anti-EDL) constitutes good journalism, especially in that Kevin Carrol etc. were made to look perfectly rational when they're complete mentalists. But I do think kicking up a stink about this would be incredibly counter-productive. As others have mentioned, the audience is likely to have been made up mainly of people who were already interested and who had already made up their minds one way or another - making a fuss about it would only, could only, give it publicity and ensure that audience widens.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2012)

Just wait and see what Monday brings


----------



## john x (Feb 22, 2012)

IC3D said:


> The fact is this there is an elephant in the room


 
Do tell us what the elephant in the room is?

john x


----------



## manny-p (Feb 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> oh come on, pack it in, its daft people!


We kissed and made up.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 22, 2012)

john x said:


> Do tell us what the elephant in the room is?
> 
> john x


----------



## manny-p (Feb 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


>


Coldplay?


----------



## treelover (Feb 22, 2012)

'Occupy LSX being evicted right now, heavy stuff going on '  

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/02/492631.html

perhaps more importantly...


----------



## Deareg (Feb 22, 2012)

manny-p said:


> We kissed and made up.


Tongues? it does not count otherwise.


----------



## john x (Feb 22, 2012)

treelover said:


> 'Occupy LSX being evicted right now, heavy stuff going on '
> 
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/02/492631.html
> 
> perhaps more importantly...


 
Are you sure? No news of it anywhere else.

john x


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 22, 2012)

Detailed write up of the Liverpool events the other day.

http://trialbyalamo.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/what-went-wrong-in-liverpool-180212/


----------



## john x (Feb 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Detailed write up of the Liverpool events the other day.
> 
> http://trialbyalamo.wordpress.com/2012/02/19/what-went-wrong-in-liverpool-180212/


One good thing that has come out of last Saturday's fiasco is that the far-right has just threatened to attack the St Ptrick's day parade in Liverpool on March 17th.

john x


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 22, 2012)

john x said:


> One good thing that has come out of last Saturday's fiasco is that the far-right has just threatened to attack the St Ptrick's day parade in Liverpool on March 17th.
> 
> john x


 
There's nothing like trying to over-stretch yourself is there?

It's a bit like winning a Primary school hundred yard dash, and the next day believing you can win an Olympic Gold.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 22, 2012)

They stopped the St Paddys Day parade in Liverpool once in the not so distant past. If the parades by the LIPRFB and has got the few hundred partying locals from Scotland Road behind it then id say its going to be a tougher nut to crack for them than the recent march. Also anti fascists will be more organised and plod are likely to crack down on them as St Paddys day in Liverpool is a good cash cow for the city businesses.


----------



## john x (Feb 22, 2012)

fiannanahalba said:


> id say its going to be a tougher nut to crack for them than the recent march.


 
Somehow I think they will realise that a St Patrick's Day Parade is not actually an IRA march between now and then.

Nobody is THAT stupid are they?

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2012)

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/...video/series-1/episode-1/proud-and-prejudiced

clip from Mondays show.


----------



## Fingers (Feb 22, 2012)

Story lacking in glory 

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/cxf-defeat-flute-band-and-surrender-to-st-patricks-day


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Story lacking in glory
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fender-corner/cxf-defeat-flute-band-and-surrender-to-st-patricks-day


 
Needs more dragons and free sky.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 22, 2012)

manny-p said:


> We kissed and made up.


 
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." ya bastards!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


>


is that mumfy by any chance?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 22, 2012)

john x said:


> One good thing that has come out of last Saturday's fiasco is that the far-right has just threatened to attack the St Ptrick's day parade in Liverpool on March 17th.
> 
> john x


 
well hopefully L'pool republicans etc will have sorted out some decent stewarding this time!


----------



## intersol32 (Feb 23, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.channel4.com/programmes/...video/series-1/episode-1/proud-and-prejudiced
> 
> clip from Mondays show.


 
So Luton Council's response to the undercurrents that give rise to racist scapegoating and Fascist ideas is (drum roll)...."a branding campaign".

Holy fucking shit. How out of touch are these people?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 23, 2012)

So at least 2 progs devoted to a dwindling bunch of right wing befuddled violent loons in a short space of time. 

But have there been any specialist docs looking at black block and the like (not that they are necessarily violent befuddled loons)?

Nah. Bollocks to that. fetishising leftism won't do. fascism and hate - that's what gives commissioners more of an erection (yes, they generally are male)

After St Tommy the Cokehead got his slot with Paxman (his 2nd, this was following the Oslo massacre) - I wrote to the BBC asking how many people should die in an anarchist massacre before they get a slot. It was couched more politely than that with some more serious points. No reply.


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 23, 2012)

I think looking at anarchism in the uk would be even more of a dull watch that do s on the edl


----------



## albionism (Feb 23, 2012)

Oi, watch it!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 23, 2012)

Not the first of these, but still bloody weird - good anti fash hackery at the Daily Star. Must be the 2012 dimension shifts.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/user_blogs/post/15345/2012/02/23/2739/


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 23, 2012)

You mean someone signing up to the site for a personal blog and posting up the same never ending bollocks as this thread?


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 23, 2012)

albionism said:


> Oi, watch it!


 
It is true though.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You mean someone signing up to the site for a personal blog and posting up the same never ending bollocks as this thread?


 
To be fair, on the "never ending bollocks" that you take such careful time to read, I daresay it takes one to know one. Never have I seen such skills so consistently wasted on such naysaying negativity.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 23, 2012)

john x said:


> Somehow I think they will realise that a St Patrick's Day Parade is not actually an IRA march between now and then.
> 
> Nobody is THAT stupid are they?
> 
> john x


EDL news are saying they wont be touching it and that the CXF are morons for calling for the stopping of the Paddys Day march. The justification given by Liverpool loyalists/fascists was always that the Paddys Day parade was led by the local Republican Flute Band, thus making it an IRA supporters march. CXF are along with their allies more anti IRA/Irish than the EDL etc who havent got the same degree of active loyalism [Ulster style] within their ranks.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 23, 2012)

if what i read is true it's kicking off in Deansgate with EDL and Ajax fans.....


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 23, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> if what i read is true it's kicking off in Deansgate with EDL and Ajax fans.....


 
I've heard reports of Ajax being kettled in Picadilly Gardens. 

Any eye witness reports?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 23, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I've heard reports of Ajax being kettled in Picadilly Gardens.
> 
> Any eye witness reports?


Hope the EDL get their asses handed to them.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> To be fair, on the "never ending bollocks" that you take such careful time to read, I daresay it takes one to know one. Never have I seen such skills so consistently wasted on such naysaying negativity.


I don't read it. I see yet another screengrab and i make sure not to read it. Write ANOTHER letter to the edl that that you then relate to us meant you were banned or not replied to.

Would you like people to get more blogs on the daily star posting the same screen shots of edl facebook comments as part of an antifascist initiative?


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 23, 2012)

Read reports of the takeaway associated with the Rochdale pedo case has been burnt down.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 23, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Read reports of the takeaway associated with the Rochdale pedo case has been burnt down.


 
Reports of mob running around Heywood?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 23, 2012)

http://www.maldonandburnhamstandard...rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


> Disturbances have broken out in the Heywood area of Rochdale, police have confirmed.
> Gangs of youths have congregated and it is believed Asian takeaway businesses have been targeted, sources said.
> A spokesman for Greater Manchester Police said: "We became aware of congregations of men gathering in Heywood this evening. We are getting some reports of disturbances.
> "There has been no reports of serious injuries. The owner of one takeaway restaurant has had his car attacked."


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 23, 2012)

They are jerking off all over Facebook, hoping to God it's the start of their civil war fantasy. Gives them a couple of hours off from playing Call Of Duty as well. Griffin is on the badwaggon as per. Remember, this has nothing to do with faith or ethnicity, but alleged child abuse. They just don't like paedos. Nothing to do with the "paki bashing" they are all "PMSL" are about. Not at all.


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## Luther Blissett (Feb 23, 2012)

Some tosser on Indymedia is asking for lefties to go to Heywood. Suspect it's one of Stabby Marsh's gun-toting 'Angles' trying to muddy the waters again.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Feb 24, 2012)

Earlier disturbances in Heywood now dispersed. Missiles were thrown damaging 3 police vehicles, a car and shop. 2 males, 35 and 14 years old arrested.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2012)

I agree with butchers on this. This thread is like a 24 hour news channel parody dedicated to one subject and compiled by hobbyists. The irony is it also serves to perpetuate the very thing it purports to oppose by providing it the oxygen of relevance and recognition it lacks from most other avenues of life.


----------



## john x (Feb 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> by providing it the oxygen of relevance and recognition it lacks


 
I'm sure us taking the piss out of the EDL is really ranking up the facebook 'likes' for them.

Do you actually think anyone in the EDL has ever heard of Urban?

john x


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## Delroy Booth (Feb 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I agree with butchers on this. This thread is like a 24 hour news channel parody dedicated to one subject and compiled by hobbyists. The irony is it also serves to perpetuate the very thing it purports to oppose by providing it the oxygen of relevance and recognition it lacks from most other avenues of life.


 
What, so you think we should just stop mentioning them, and discussing how to deal with, altogether or something?

This thread is a valuable resource for me and other anti-fascists, why would you want to take it from us?


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Feb 24, 2012)

definately useful thread, despite the frequent derails, please don't delete


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## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2012)

john x said:


> Do you actually think anyone in the EDL has ever heard of Urban?


 
Do you think the 208,000 page views are just people on here?


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## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2012)

.


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## Ranbay (Feb 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Do you think the 208,000 page views are just people on here?


 
190,000 are mine


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## Delroy Booth (Feb 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> The irony is it also serves to perpetuate the very thing it purports to oppose by providing it the oxygen of relevance and recognition it lacks from most other avenues of life.


 
So what do you suggest Citizen666? that we refuse to openly discuss anything to do with the EDL from now on? In case they might read it? In case it gives them publicity? Does _any_ form of public discussion that ackowledges the existence of the EDL fit within the definition of "providing it the oxygen of relevance and recognition" if that is the case? Should I also not speak to my friends and co-workers about this issue then? In case it makes them relevant?

I'm afraid that with or without this thread, the EDL is going to be relevant. As long as it exists it will be relevant. There was something not far off a riot in Rochdale the other night, are we to just ignore it? Refuse to discuss it? 

On a personal level I couldn't give a flying fuck if the EDL do read it. Hi guys! I'm sorry but this is just about the best repository detailing the history and development of the EDL I can find on the internet for left-wingers, aswell as interested members of the public who stumble accross it. It's helped me a lot in understanding the events that we're living through, and its informed some of the things I've done in real life with regards to anti-fascist activism. For this it's been very helpful, for me at least, although I'm sure there's others who feel the same way.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 24, 2012)

How about a thread not made up  of obsessive screenshots of what some knobhead says mirroring their pathetic on-line presence? A thread talking about what drives the edl - you know, social conditions and that, how these conditions can be dealt with, the possibilities that open up if they are or if they aren't. You know, a bit of politics. This thread is a fucking embarrassment.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 24, 2012)

> (EDL) English Defence League
> *Hey Mr Paedophile where is your kebab shop?*
> *Daylight come and the shop no more.*
> *Paedo!*
> ...


 
just afte they posted this




> (EDL) English Defence League
> *Before the scum start casting the blame on E D L about last nights events in Rochdale let it be known this was locals angry with the way young girls are preyed upon.*


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17149799


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## Delroy Booth (Feb 24, 2012)

I see plenty of politics on this thread butchers, although I concede it may not be up to your high standards. Then again, looking at your posting history, it seems this whole urban75 forum is way beneath you. Why exactly you'd wish to participate in online debates with cretins like us is a bit of a mystery to me. No doubt you have your reasons.

Now you're perfectly welcome to add your own posts to this thread, and if you have something to say regarding the social conditions and political context in which the EDL operate I'd be more than happy to hear it and debate it with you.

I also dont think "obsessive screenshots of what some knobhead says" and the sort of rigorous analysis you so desperately crave are mutually exclusive. The existence of screenshots detailing what they actually get upto hardly negates politics, the two things are not exclusive at all, quite frankly there's easily room for both. It's not really upto you to tell other people how they should post and what they should think.

Also, and I do mean this absolutely sincerely so please don't take it the wrong way, if this thread is such an embarassment then what compels you to post on it?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 24, 2012)

Where? Where is the politics? It's post after post of screenshots that derive from narrowing your focus down and chasing after the edl online. There is fuck all political discussion along the lines i suggested on this thread - none. Pretty much every single political point about the edl has been made on other threads. Why the fuck would anyone bother to post substantive stuff on this thread?

Compels me? You mean why do i choose to point out how shit it is, how the growth of the _on-line edl specialist _is leading peoples energies up a cul-de-sac? Because that's what i think and want to tell the people wasting their time what i think (_but i'm at work_ etc).


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## Delroy Booth (Feb 24, 2012)

Well if that's how you feel butchers perhaps you should just post your no-doubt superior analysis elsewhere and leave us idiots to waste our energy chasing the EDL around the internetz? Clearly we aren't worthy.

All you've offered to the thread is vacuous whinging of the most self-indulgent and superscillious kind. I've not seen you offer anything even slightly worthwhile in terms of political analysis, just holier-than-thou posturing and a bit of an attitude problem with it.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 24, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Well if that's how you feel butchers perhaps you should just post your no-doubt superior analysis elsewhere and leave us idiots to waste our energy chasing the EDL around the internetz? Clearly we aren't worthy.
> 
> All you've offered to the thread is vacuous whinging of the most self-indulgent and superscillious kind. I've not seen you offer anything even slightly worthwhile in terms of political analysis, just holier-than-thou posturing and a bit of an attitude problem with it.


Chip on the shoulder type eh. Maybe you cokld point me towards the scintillating analysis that you and your comrades have posted on this thread then? Stuff a bit better than _*** said this to that, hah hah how thick is he?_

Offered to the thread? The thread isn't worth offering anything to - i've gone into great detail on this board and elsewhere as to where i think current far-right support is coming from, what drives it, what sustains it, what can undermine and what measures we should adopt to combat it and what is proving counter-productive. And this pathetic hobby-horsing is not amongst those answers del-boy.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 24, 2012)

I've never indulged in any kind of that shit, and you know it. But I don't castigate those who do, quite frankly people putting put screenshots from the EDL facebook hasn't hindered me trying to put forward an actual analysis, ever, in any way shape or form. It shouldn't stop you either. Like I've said to you from the very beginning, if you have some analysis about the EDL to say just post it, I'd be quite happy to debate it with you.

Considering the EDL predominantly recruits and organizes via the internet and social media I think keeping an eye on them on facebook is a perfectly valid thing to do. It might not meet your lofty pre-conceptions of what _proper_ anti-fascism should be, but as far as I'm concerned it's fine thing. Infact I'd go further, if you want to know the detail of what motivates them, what the dynamics within the group are, and what future direction it may take, short of actually infiltrating them stalking their facebook groups and so on is about a good a place as any to find out these things. The stupid thing, of course, would be to do this at the expense of a proper analysis, but I don't see that takng place here at all. You only have to go back a few pages to see me, as well as many others, putting forward our own views on what the politics of the EDL are, and personally I've never been shy of discussing the politics behind them. What I suspect you mean is that the political debate around the EDL _isn't good enough for you_ and infact is so beneath your high-standards that you find this thread an embarassment. In which case, again I ask the question, why come here? Just so you can fling shit at other anti-fascists? Just to prove to yourself how much smarter and superior you are than all of the rest of us? This entire exchange we're having now seems to me to be far more embarassing, pointless and indulgent than a million screenshots from the EDL's facebook group.

You don't control what other people say and do and what they should put on this thread. If people want to post screengrabs from the EDL they can do so, even if you don't like it. If you're uncomfortable with that, and this thread, if it actually embarasses you so much, then rather than crying a river about it why don't you just leave the thread alone? I don't see you offering anything worthwhile anyway so I'm sure we'll get by without your input.


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 24, 2012)

The point of this EDL Watch thread is to post up news and information about the EDL. Thats what has happened since the beginning. 

If you want a political analytical thread on the EDL then why not start one? 

Maybe the point of this thread is infantile (although I don't think it is) but that is the point of the thread none the less.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 24, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> The point of this EDL Watch thread is to post up news and information about the EDL. Thats what has happened since the beginning.
> 
> If you want a political analytical thread on the EDL then why not start one?


 
Or even better why not add it on here? maybe people will respond and an actual conversation may take place? I don't see what's preventing butchers from sharing with us mere mortals his insights on here I really dont.


----------



## john x (Feb 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Do you think the 208,000 page views are just people on here?


No I don't but do you seriously think that someone on the point of packing in the EDL will take a look at this thread and say 'Shit, I'd better stick with them as Urban 75 is still discussing us'?

john x


----------



## chilango (Feb 24, 2012)

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but what butchers said has more than element of truth. I read this thread and ll the various everything EDL type feeds and most of what I see is tittle-tattle and politics free gossip. That doesn't mean that keeping an eye on their social media is a bad idea, it's not. But the almost triumphalist nature of some of the sneering at the screenshots (i don't just mean here but antiEDL stuff generally) isn't helpful. Probably the opposite. Bad spelling, "ugliness" etc. are not political points and can easily lead those in the orbit to conclude (often correctly) that their opponents are middle-class snobs sneering down at them.The "lulz" maybe entertaining, but only maybe and its very easy to slip into trainspotting and hobbyism when you have that level of interest in the minutae that you're commenting on.

We face a massive, massive attack from the ruling class at the moment and the EDL and their ilk are a very minor player in the drama.

Worth watching, opposing when neccessary but kept strictly in proportion and context. 

Just my views for what they're worth, feel free to carry on as you were.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Feb 24, 2012)

y'know what fuck it if continuing to post on this thread is somehow helping the EDL I'll stop.

I reckon everyone else should too.


----------



## chilango (Feb 24, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> y'know what fuck it if continuing to post on this thread is somehow helping the EDL I'll stop.
> 
> I reckon everyone else should too.


 
Did you read what I _actually_ said?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 24, 2012)

They have since taken this down.

not sure why?

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/455/7852561691.png


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm thankful of threads like these (apart from the predictable sneering from a handful) it helps me keep informed, esp when certain Irish forums have people calling the EDL patriotic!!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 24, 2012)

LoyalistChat.com?


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 24, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> LoyalistChat.com?


 
Ye gods, I wouldn't dare go on such a thing, nah - a very popular Irish forum. Supposedly balanced.


----------



## treelover (Feb 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Great arguments for orange marches.
> 
> Aside from not being anything to do with what i posted of course.


 

My late mother used to tell me how they had to stay indoors when they marched, imo, time to end the lot of these events, on both sides!


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2012)

john x said:


> No I don't but do you seriously think that someone on the point of packing in the EDL will take a look at this thread and say 'Shit, I'd better stick with them as Urban 75 is still discussing us'?
> 
> john x



No. But being a visible enemy rather than allowing them to drift away into obscurity can perpetuate their existence, yes.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I agree with butchers on this. This thread is like a 24 hour news channel parody dedicated to one subject and compiled by hobbyists. The irony is it also serves to perpetuate the very thing it purports to oppose by providing it the oxygen of relevance and recognition it lacks from most other avenues of life.


 
Some people can get a bit obsessive I guess, but they are rightfully concerned about race hate, fascism and the backdrop to them.

It's called "EDL Watch" and watches the EDL - I can't see a problem with that.

Do groups thrive on opposition? Somewhat, but they'll make it up regardless, or make something up.

Will the EDL disappear if we ignore them? I doubt the attention we give them has all that much impact either way to be honest.

Will we disappear as a result of Butcher's constantly coming on to chide us? 

Ditto. I wonder if there's an irony lurking somewhere in his attention.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 24, 2012)

this thread is a good way of stayingt in toiuch with antifascists and sharing a wee bit info links etc. if folk dont like it  go and watch soccer teams!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 24, 2012)

hyde, heywood, ajax fans? no threat. no.


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 24, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> hyde, heywood, ajax fans? no threat. no.


 
Rochdale has been going off for over a year, there are daily race attacks (from both sides). 

I don't think the EDL are as bigger of a threat that others and I first thought.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 24, 2012)

Maletesta - There are threats, always, to be concerned about. Always were.

but to deal with your 3 from last post:

we don't know how Hyde will shape up yet - could be a squib for all we know. Community seems more united against the demo if anything, which is good in a peverse way.

Last night's Ajax wibble - (EDL not mentioned in the Evening News coverage) - Soccer fan punch up is barely anything, hitting Dutch people is nothing to do with Islam (unless Ajax have a muslamic contingent to their fan base, which is possible I guess). The original Ajax incident just showed that that that particular group of fans give fascists short shrift - good news again. As in this country real football fans very often revile the far right - a somewhat undertold story.

Heywood - more disturbing, as has been the whole thing around the Liverpool case. but mostly young people getting caught up in that kind of thing speaks at least as much to the sort of underlying causes of last years riots if you ask me. And paedomania figures too. The far right will use such things to recruit and that is a deep concern. But if it along with the general hype around Liverpool remain isolated then long term damage may be mild, they also serve to highlight what a danger the far right are to the broader community which can galvanise things.

The problem as I see it is that Griffin is determined now to stir and hype things up in order to max his chances of re election in 2014. Along with the NWi (small but virulently nasty and deluded) they will ensure that race tensions in the NW are not allowed to die down in the next 2 years.

The EDL have more or less completed their transmutation in to the broader far right, somewhat larger than it used to be thanks to them, but their overall initial function seems now to be served out. They long since blew it in regards to being any different.

Anti fascism has not generally had an adequate response organisationally, but things have been so fluid that is small suprise. The numbers are kind of there, keeping in mind that demos by EDL etc. tend to rely on people being bussed in from all over the shop. That's the main worry about Heywood I think. 

As usual, it is left  / anarchist / community action on the ground that will draw the young away from the far right into more constructive outlets. All the UAF conferences and demos in the world won't help generate that.

All just my opinions of course.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2012)

Ajax has jewish roots.


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 24, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Heywood - more disturbing, as has been the whole thing around the Liverpool case. but mostly young people getting caught up in that kind of thing speaks at least as much to the sort of underlying causes of last years riots if you ask me. And paedomania figures too. The far right will use such things to recruit and that is a deep concern. But if it along with the general hype around Liverpool remain isolated then long term damage may be mild, they also serve to highlight what a danger the far right are to the broader community which can galvanise things.


 
Like I said in my previous post: the racial tension in Rochdale has been boiling over for at least a year. Remember the EDL did a demo there.

I was getting reports pretty much daily of this asian lad or that white kid being beaten up because of the racial tension. It is particularly bad in Deeplish.

I don't believe it has much of a direct link to the riots. Indirect sure (poverty, unemployment, etc).


----------



## The Prestonian (Feb 24, 2012)

Worrying that there was 2 consecutive stories on the national news re. EDL / various splinter groups. Any news from the Liverpool court case because the footage from BBC News seemed to show quite a few fash outside the courthouse.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 24, 2012)

ta taff, been away for a few days. too knacked to go thru it all! cheers!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 24, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> this thread is a good way of stayingt in toiuch with antifascists and sharing a wee bit info links etc. if folk dont like it go and watch soccer teams!


 
If there's one thing I hate more than racists it's people who insist on calling football soccer 

Disclaimer: In reality I hate people who call football soccer slightly less than racists, and I make an exception for malatesta32 cos he seems alright. But he does need to stop with the soccer shite!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 25, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Like I said in my previous post: the racial tension in Rochdale has been boiling over for at least a year. Remember the EDL did a demo there.
> 
> I was getting reports pretty much daily of this asian lad or that white kid being beaten up because of the racial tension. It is particularly bad in Deeplish.
> 
> I don't believe it has much of a direct link to the riots. Indirect sure (poverty, unemployment, etc).


 
Sorry to hear the specifics, there are other areas of Gtr Manchester with stuff bubbling away, although the wank fantasy race war of a deluded minority is a very long way off.

My point about the riots was kind of indirect - kids will come out for any old argy bargy. 

BBC (not mega reliable but...) quoted figures of 100 for last nights muslamic peadogeddon arson. That's a fair bit down on some estimates at the time. From reading the MEN article on this I can only discern 2 arrests, which was pretty suprising.


----------



## xes (Feb 25, 2012)

There was some EDL muppet in the pub last night, trying to get 2 young impressionalbles to go to some riot on march 6th (in luton somewhere)


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 25, 2012)

xes said:


> There was some EDL muppet in the pub last night, trying to get 2 young impressionalbles to go to some riot on march 6th (in luton somewhere)


 
Did the impressionables seem to swallow it?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 25, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I don't believe it has much of a direct link to the riots. Indirect sure (poverty, unemployment, etc).


 
In many cases its racism from both sides probably due to a lack of integration decades ago and as you say poverty and unemployment.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 25, 2012)

latest on hyde from everything EDL
http://twitpic.com/photos/everythingedl
not a great turnout by the looks of things.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2012)

https://twitter.com/#!/edlsupportgroup/status/173393264978829312

It has been confirmed that GMP are turning coaches away and not letting them attend the demo


honest...


----------



## john x (Feb 25, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It has been confirmed that GMP are turning coaches away and not letting them attend the demo
> 
> 
> honest...


 
That will explain why there are only 300-odd at the rally, then! 

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/8ohmy5

looks more like 3,000,0000 to me


----------



## john x (Feb 25, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/8ohmy5
> 
> looks more like 3,000,0000 to me


Sorry Bob!

My mistake.

john x


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 25, 2012)

Some pics from today in Hyde...piss poor BNP turnout. EDL around 200 when it got on top with some in ASDA car park. So didnt stay right til end. The guy in grey hoodie is a Redwatch photographer and he got very close to Mosque taking pictures.


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 25, 2012)

Just a few more.....note Gary Tumulty Salford BNP and Redwatch contributer holding Flag in centre...looked very sheepish today at such piss poor turnout. Was overheard pleading for EDL to help save the day.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 25, 2012)

the joint effort between bnp & edl in hyde seems to be around 600. piss poor for both parties' national demos. SDL even worse. 30 odd wankers in hoods standing about cluelessly. eejits.


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the joint effort between bnp & edl in hyde seems to be around 600. piss poor for both parties' national demos. SDL even worse. 30 odd wankers in hoods standing about cluelessly. eejits.


BNP about 60 tops.......believe me they were all saying wheres so and so and I think there will be some serious recrims. That Redwatch photographer has been confirmed as Andrew Tierney brother of Liverpool BNP redneck Peter.
EDL from 3 or 4 different news sources on the day say 350-400.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 25, 2012)

beeb says 600 but edl/casuals estimate nearly 1 million! fuck all in glesgae!


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 25, 2012)

Photo 1. The two guys with cameras are freelance snappers and not part of the BNP.


----------



## Red About Town (Feb 25, 2012)

Anything happen in Glasgow today?


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> beeb says 600 but edl/casuals estimate nearly 1 million! fuck all in glesgae!


The BNP website carries an article saying why it has lifted the proscription of the EDL and theres no doubt its influenced by their absolutely shite turnout today and the general overshadowing by the EDL. 60 not the 300 plus they claim in another article. As for 3000 muslims waiting to attack well thats absolute garbage as well. Whatever you feel about whether elders should control their youth the fact is they did and the community held firm against provocation with considerable restraint.....so far.


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 25, 2012)

Apart from cops, edl, a few journos oh and the bnp, Hyde was very hush today....no public to speak to and therefore another preaching to the converted fiasco...most shops and pubs were shut and the big ASDA adjacent to the Mosque was like a ghost town (doo doo do) And no whaddya want whendya wannit brigade also...


----------



## john x (Feb 25, 2012)

Red About Town said:


> Anything happen in Glasgow today?


 
30 SDL bolstered by about 40-odd NWI.

Apparently there were so few of them that they just stood around looking embarrased at St Enoch's, while the good people of Glasgow carried on their afternoon shopping.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2012)

Tommys speech today, where he says go smash shit up and stuff.


----------



## Corax (Feb 25, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommys speech today, where he says go smash shit up and stuff.



On top of everything else, he's a misogynistic little shit isn't he?


----------



## john x (Feb 26, 2012)

Corax said:


> On top of everything else, he's a misogynistic little shit isn't he?


 
Comes as no surprise from someone who did 12 months for kinking a cop in the head who was trying to drag him off his partner who he was battering at the time.

john x


----------



## weepiper (Feb 26, 2012)

Red About Town said:


> Anything happen in Glasgow today?


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17164967


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2012)

the SDL have completely misread the political picture up here. no one gives a toss about 'muslamics' we are focussed on cuts and independence etc. the SDL etc look like what they are, has been hooligans, loyalist thugs and eejits. FACT!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2012)

Red About Town said:


> Anything happen in Glasgow today?


indymedia. piss poor turnout. wankers.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/02/492803.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2012)

singing 'rule brittania' is no going tae endear ye to the majority pal!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2012)

anarchos report!
https://glasgowanarchists.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/glasgow-anti-fascists-1-0-sdl-nwi-nei/#more-995


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> anarchos report!
> https://glasgowanarchists.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/glasgow-anti-fascists-1-0-sdl-nwi-nei/#more-995


 
The SDL weren't in Annie Millers at all, that sort of daft and wrong info isn't helpful;. What also isn't helpful is people wrongly identifying and screaming fascist scum off our streets at ordinary punters who were attempting a discussion with the SDL. Nearly resulted in one fella having a police dog set on him when he went to explain they'd got it wrong.


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 26, 2012)

As an aside an SDL steward pissed himself after a copper refused to let him go out the cordon to the toilet. He then went back to the copper showing said copper he'd pissed himself.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> As an aside an SDL steward pissed himself after a copper refused to let him go out the cordon to the toilet. He then went back to the copper showing said copper he'd pissed himself.


duly noted in the latest malatesta piece Fed!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2012)

latest 'malatesta'
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 26, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> The SDL weren't in Annie Millers at all, that sort of daft and wrong info isn't helpful;. What also isn't helpful is people wrongly identifying and screaming fascist scum off our streets at ordinary punters who were attempting a discussion with the SDL. Nearly resulted in one fella having a police dog set on him when he went to explain they'd got it wrong.


 
Anarchism in practice


----------



## Anonymous1 (Feb 26, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommys speech today,


 
Nice to see him getting the excuses in before he looks like a complete bellend on the telly.

"There'll be times i look a little bit of a prick because i'm drunk, we all do"
Where to start?

"The BNP were forced to let non-white people join, _we_ have not" but then says the programme mentioned will show
"we are not racist, we do not have a problem with the colour of your skin"
Speaks for itself although tommy's speech writer might want to leave at least a full minute before
contradicting a previous statement.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 26, 2012)

some good pics here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaydownes/sets/72157629452642901/

i like the security ones lol


----------



## emanymton (Feb 26, 2012)

Are the sponsored by facebook or something?


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 26, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> "The BNP were forced to let non-white people join, _we_ have not" but then says the programme mentioned will show
> "we are not racist, we do not have a problem with the colour of your skin"
> Speaks for itself although tommy's speech writer might want to leave at least a full minute before contradicting a previous statement.


 
i don't get the contradiction here? he's saying the EDL have always let black people in the organisation whereas the BNP were forced to do so...


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 26, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Anarchism in practice


 
In fairness they merely repeated a comment i'd heard aswell, it probably came from the fact that 6 full riot vans were parked wigh outside that pub. Those who barracked the anti fascists were a mix of SWP/anarchos and others. I wouldn't blame the anarchists for the actions of the misguided.


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> duly noted in the latest malatesta piece Fed!


 
Do me a favour and remove my moniker from yer blog.


----------



## john x (Feb 26, 2012)

emanymton said:


> Are the sponsored by facebook or something?


They pretty much only exist on facebook now!

john x


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 26, 2012)

Hmmmmm.... I think he's missing his own point.....


----------



## Anonymous1 (Feb 26, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> i don't get the contradiction here?


Fair point, I should have phrased it better.
Without bringing up their entire bullshit, they go around shouting "paki's out!" amongst many other racial slurs.
The contradiction is in their words _and deeds._

Just because they say they "let black people" join does not mean they will/do accept all-comers.

Their ranks are made up from out-and-out racists or people pissed off with a situation and who see the edl as
a voice and vehicle for them (albeit wrongly).
They say a lot of things but very little with any substance (or sense for that matter).
Racist cunts _are _racist cunts and the EDL fit that bracket.


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 26, 2012)

Mr pishypants himself


----------



## josef1878 (Feb 26, 2012)

Look at me, look at me, i'm on Channel 4 on Monday. My ramblings deservedly deserve it. I might be drunk but that's what happens innit.


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Mr pishypants himself


 
Interesting placard there as when Gadaffi was killed, the far-right were lauding him as a hero and calling the Western intervention in Libya a Zionist conspiracy!

john x


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 27, 2012)

Also interesting because the Lockerbie conviction was highly unsafe. But the droolers would have to follow what was going on in the world to know that.


----------



## xes (Feb 27, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Did the impressionables seem to swallow it?


unfortunatly yes, they were all "yeah we're gonna have a fukkin riot innit" 

I shall give them a gentle nudge when I next see them, tell them to chose their battles wisely, and to not get sucked into seperationist shit like this.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

Anonymous1 said:


> Nice to see him getting the excuses in before he looks like a complete bellend on the telly.
> 
> "There'll be times i look a little bit of a prick because i'm drunk, we all do"
> Where to start?
> ...


anon, he doesnt have a speech writer, he likes to 'improvise.' and he doesnt believe in editing his videos either. he has confused himself with someone who has something interesting to say. as for our incontinent hero, he is is our star attraction on the 'malatesta' blog today!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mar...ooligan_b_1302375.html?ref=uk&just_reloaded=1

*Proud and Prejudiced: The Jihadist and the Hooligan*


Dont forget this is on C4 Tongiht, 10pm i think


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Also interesting because the Lockerbie conviction was highly unsafe. But the droolers would have to follow what was going on in the world to know that.


I think it is more likely to be having a pop at the Scottish Parliament which they see as being the architect of the destruction of the Union.

john x


----------



## Frances Lengel (Feb 27, 2012)

Well, they're going to have to pay the cost of clearing up after Hyde.

www.menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1486622_english-defence-league-to-be-sent-bill-for-clean-up-operation-after-rally-in-hyde


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

too funny. having to pay for that shower! saturday was hardly a 'victory' either!


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 27, 2012)

tbf i think it would be pretty terrible if this set a precedent of protest organisers being billed for the costs of controlling them


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

manny-p said:


> She has the same voice when she gets pissed off. [/quote
> she is most annoying. shrilly shouting 'dont judge me dont judge me' like shes in a bleedin' playground. no analysis here whatsoever, just 2 sets of twats being twats. cant wait for dispatches!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

what a waste of time. totally ineffectual and inarticulate programmre.


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> tbf i think it would be pretty terrible if this set a precedent of protest organisers being billed for the costs of controlling them


If that is what it was then i would agree, but it is not.

They are actually being billed the cost of clearing up after them because they are a business.

If vodafone held a promotional event in a town centre and left a load of shit behind them, do you not think they should be billed for the clean-up?

Or should the local council pay for it?

john x


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 27, 2012)

are trade unions businesses? where is the line drawn? is it about merchandising? the Hyde demo was obviously political, not a 'promotional' thing for flogging their shit... there's an obvious difference so far as i can see.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2012)

john x said:


> If that is what it was then i would agree, but it is not.
> 
> They are actually being billed the cost of clearing up after them because they are a business.
> 
> ...


Are you 100% sure of the first part of this?


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> the Hyde demo was obviously political,


 
The EDL repeatedly claim not to be a political movement.

john x


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Are you 100% sure of the first part of this?


Yes, if by 'controlling them' Das Uberdog means policing them.

john x


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2012)

john x said:


> Yes, if by 'controlling them' Das Uberdog means policing them.
> 
> john x


I meant that the proposed billing was on the basis of the edl _being a business._


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> are trade unions businesses?


 
No, they are registered with the Register of Friendly Societies and have a legal status similar to registered charities.

john x


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I meant that the proposed billing was on the basis of the edl _being a business._


A contact in Tameside Council is saying that that is the legal argument being used to recover the costs.

Not only is the EDL not registered as a charity or a political party, it is incorporated as a business at Companies House trading as a merchandise seller. On this basis, Saturday's event is being seen as primarily commercial, especially as a lot of merchandise was sold there.

john x


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2012)

john x said:


> A contact in Tameside Council is saying that that is the legal argument being used to recover the costs.
> 
> Not only is the EDL not registered as a charity or a political party, it is incorporated as a business at Companies House trading as a merchandise seller. On this basis, Saturday's event is being seen as primarily commercial, especially as a lot of merchandise was sold there.
> 
> john x


Ta, so it's possibly the basis but not 100%?


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Ta, so it's possibly the basis but not 100%?


Is anything 100%?

john x


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes. I'm only after an answer so i can 100% say this elsewhere - it's not a trick.


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Yes. I'm only after an answer so i can 100% say this elsewhere - it's not a trick.


OK it is the attempted logic/legal grounds for an attempt to recover costs.

It is not a new thing either. I have organised outdoor gigs where although they are being done to raise awareness of something or other they are treated as commercial events and I have had to pay for both policing and clean up.

john x


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2012)

Ok ta again.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 27, 2012)

The idea of billing for demos would set a dangerous precedent.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Feb 27, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The idea of billing for demos would set a dangerous precedent.


 
Just think how much a poll tax riot would cost. Anyway, the UAF won't have to worry much because noone could get away with charging more than 10 quid for a Kettle.


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

By the way kiddies,

I think Tommy Robinson has just seen a preview of tonight's Dispatches programme on C4.*

He is spitting feathers and is now saying it was re-edited by the government to stitch up the EDL! A statement will be released after the programme airs.

'Oh shit indeed!' as Mr Gilbert would say. 

john x

(*the programme that will bring them 'up to a million more members')


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

(EDL) English Defence League
*In a worrying development its being alleged that HMG have organised an 11th hour edit of tonights C4 programme, and overruled the editor*;(

"Tommy just rang in the local radio station and tried to get a message out, tonights Channel 4 Documentary has been edited by the government, a statement will be released after the programme which airs at 10pm. He sounded very angry, looks like another media/ government stitch up job. Wether your a supporter of the EDL or not you have got to agree the moment the government interfere with news stories, we live in a type of cold war dictatorship".

*Whatever the truth it looks like EDL has got the establishment well & truly on the backfoot*


----------



## Fingers (Feb 27, 2012)

The shit is about to well and truly hit the fan and splatter all over Tommyboy


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

Fingers said:


> The shit is about to well and truly hit the fan and splatter all over Tommyboy


pray tell!


----------



## john x (Feb 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> pray tell!


Put it like this, when the EDL say 'all publicity is good publicity'.............

that is not strictly true! 

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

going on dispatches is like your wife calling you and saying will you come on Jeremy Kyle with me?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> going on dispatches is like your wife calling you and saying will you come on Jeremy Kyle with me?


what? You think think the qualities of the makers are in doubt? Why?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> what? You think think the qualities of the makers are in doubt? Why?


 
you recall that dispatches show where they said, these people are ace! you should like join up and stuff?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

john x said:


> Put it like this, when the EDL say 'all publicity is good publicity'.............
> 
> that is not strictly true!
> 
> john x


as we have pointed out in the Mal blog time and again ask gary glitter or jonathan king if 'all publicity is good publicity.' the EDL is amongst many other things a vanity operation.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 27, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> you recall that dispatches show where they said, these people are ace! you should like join up and stuff?


No


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

from the sun:
In Channel 4 documentary Proud And Prejudiced, aired tonight at 10pm, Robinson is followed by cameras for a year. He is seen fighting with his own followers after they booed a Sikh man joining the group, throwing coins at police on a night out and getting death threats on the phone during a rally.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

the only people who have said 'the govt have edited dispatches' is tommy. its just been repeated as if its FACT!


----------



## treelover (Feb 27, 2012)

I know this is a thread about the EDL, but could someone spare a few posts about the other extremist featured in the programme..


----------



## Corax (Feb 27, 2012)

treelover said:


> I know this is a thread about the EDL, but could someone spare a few posts about the other extremist featured in the programme..


Bit difficult as it hasn't been aired yet.

And your first few words are definitely relevant anyway.  How about starting a thread entitled "Watching the Muslim Extremists" or similar?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

treelover said:


> I know this is a thread about the EDL, but could someone spare a few posts about the other extremist featured in the programme..


 
the whole show its two cunts for the price of one.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

Corax said:


> Bit difficult as it hasn't been aired yet.
> 
> And your first few words are definitely relevant anyway. How about starting a thread entitled "Watching the Muslim Extremists" or similar?


 
i did a watching MAC thread, look back, they got banned nobody posted in it etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

its cos EDL are the ones marching into towns being pissed and causing annoyance whilst pretending to defend or speak for local people. the MAC are a small handful of beardy eejits that most of the muslim community see as giving them all a bad name. thats why!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

edl website features increased donation buttons! and no access to forums for some reason. hmmm ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

and twelve quid for a teddy?


----------



## IC3D (Feb 27, 2012)

It's interesting they seemed know each other from school, bet they got on when they were kids. Pissing contest sums it up.​


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

dick waving got out of hand? recon he did his bird or what?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> and twelve quid for a teddy?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

more info. aint got TV here. how have they come across so far?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

http://www.tvcatchup.com/watch.html?c=4


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

ill raise your drooling bear with my nazi bear!


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 27, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Well, they're going to have to pay the cost of clearing up after Hyde.
> 
> www.menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1486622_english-defence-league-to-be-sent-bill-for-clean-up-operation-after-rally-in-hyde


 
bit of kite flying from the Council and Police at a time when budgets are being cut. If they are successful in this then the next two bit anarchist protest over battery chickpea farming or UAF gets to pick up the bill as well.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

god mr tommy's such a whining little fucker.


----------



## barney_pig (Feb 27, 2012)

Looks like tommys keeping bolivian economy in the black all on his own through this programme.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> Looks like tommys keeping bolivian economy in the black all on his own through this programme.


he's a bit shiney isnt he!


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

and there you have it......


----------



## cantsin (Feb 27, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> Looks like tommys keeping bolivian economy in the black all on his own through this programme.


 
VERY gakked up night before the T Hamlets - bet the fake beard etc was hard work with the charlie sweats

another non event doc imo.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

pretty dull do. 'im not a thug' he says. headbutts bloke and is nicked, arrested at soccer for fighting, did a year for assault. no, not a thug.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2012)

well that was boring. crap journalism - 'theyre all as bad as each other' etc. pisspoor.


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 27, 2012)

That was predictably shite.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)

to be fiar it showed Tommy for what he is for once.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 27, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> to be fiar it showed Tommy for what he is for once.


 
A very poor man's Ricky Gervais, with a hint of Charlie Manson, without the charm.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 27, 2012)




----------



## Red Storm (Feb 28, 2012)

Most pointless documentary ever.


----------



## john x (Feb 28, 2012)

As I've said before, we may laugh at Tommy Robinson acting like a dickhead, talking shite and making jokes about the Breivik massacre but many of the fools who might follow him will go "Yeah -right on. I like what that man is saying!"

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 28, 2012)

as twitter and facebook clearly shows tonight....... bur fair play, the number of people calling them both cunts is high


----------



## audiotech (Feb 28, 2012)

The ego's have landed. Was that Tommy's handler on the dog and bone? Whoever it was he was clearly crapping himself. NS.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 28, 2012)

john x said:


> As I've said before, we may laugh at Tommy Robinson acting like a dickhead, talking shite and making jokes about the Breivik massacre but many of the fools who might follow him will go "Yeah -right on. I like what that man is saying!"
> 
> john x


 
Yep, although whoever follows him from now on where are they going to go, except in some cases jail time? Interesting his comments on the BNP btw.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 28, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




This is actually pointing at something that is a real concern.

After violent people the next most dangerous thing is people who aren't violent, especially when it's for generations. It's really suspicious and devious. Muslims are now pulling the wool over our eyes in their hundreds of millions by not randomly killing people. It's got that bad.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 28, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> as twitter and facebook clearly shows tonight....... bur fair play, the number of people calling them both cunts is high


 
+ Red storm  - "Most pointless documentary ever".

Find myself massively agreeing with both points............... What a non-piece of 'journalism'....... I've seen more cutting edge political commentary in the Beano.


----------



## barney_pig (Feb 28, 2012)

No mention of tommys new political friends. Nor of the merchandising ( or where the money goes), Jo examination of the political backgrounds of any of tommys little pals- weak at the least.
Some of the women in burkas were a bit " beefy" too.
That confontation between tommy and Mr lslam at the start- so staged that wonder whether he an d Tom dreamed the whole thing up together as a scam


----------



## manny-p (Feb 28, 2012)

When watching it on 40D. You get an 100% British Hovis advert. =)


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 28, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Yep, although whoever follows him from now on where are they going to go, except in some cases jail time? Interesting his comments on the BNP btw.


 
They were , especially as some posters on here had the EDL=BNP  as if they were one and the same.


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 28, 2012)

manny-p said:


> When watching it on 40D. You get an 100% British Hovis advert. =)


but...but... Hovis is brown!


----------



## albionism (Feb 28, 2012)

Only 'cos it's been in Tommy's salon.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 28, 2012)

audiotech said:


> The ego's have landed. Was that Tommy's handler on the dog and bone? Whoever it was he was clearly crapping himself. NS.


 
Yep defo was.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 28, 2012)

dispatches review!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## bignose1 (Feb 28, 2012)

albionism said:


> Only 'cos it's been in Tommy's salon.


 Yeah he should be an infra-del


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## Das Uberdog (Feb 28, 2012)

that's awful


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 28, 2012)

A pathetic programme, no attempt to really get in to the issues, just following two sets of nutters doing their thing. I and other Luton Town FC fans are pretty pissed off with Channel 4's claim that the EDL are "mostly Luton Town fans". Ths sort of programme hardly helps in a town where's there's actually very little trouble between whites and Asians. I reguarly walk through Bury Park at all times of day and night and never have problems, same as thousands of others. The EDL are doing their best to fcuk things up. One thing the programme didn't mention is how the EDL is dying on its arse and is now little more than a collection of facebook groups and bored shouty blokes who cant be arsed to turn up at demos anymore.

It was great seeing the look of sheer panic on Yaxley-Lennon's face at the end when he realised he was gonna get nicked and sent down - pure shitting himself - hahahaha!


----------



## ddraig (Feb 28, 2012)

audiotech said:


> The ego's have landed. Was that Tommy's handler on the dog and bone? Whoever it was he was clearly crapping himself. NS.


 first name terms and yeah his eyes went even wider


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 28, 2012)

post on indymedia comment:
'Before the Proud & Prejudiced show the EDL had about 3,500 friends of Facebook (which is the only measure of what they like to call their "membership"). At 11am today the figure stands at 3,686.'
oh dear.


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## malatesta32 (Feb 28, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> that's awful


das, theres no stopping him.


----------



## krink (Feb 28, 2012)

APL - anti-pun league. needs to be formed asap.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 28, 2012)

this is me on hearing these puns!


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 28, 2012)

Who wrote Tiger Feet?


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 28, 2012)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> + Red storm - "Most pointless documentary ever".
> 
> Find myself massively agreeing with both points............... What a non-piece of 'journalism'....... I've seen more cutting edge political commentary in the Beano.


 
Interesting name.....


----------



## audiotech (Feb 28, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Who wrote Tiger Feet?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 28, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Interesting name.....


North Eastern correspondent, neighbour of TBH


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 28, 2012)

audiotech said:


>


 Thats Right  Thats Right Thats Right !!


----------



## audiotech (Feb 28, 2012)




----------



## bignose1 (Feb 28, 2012)

audiotech said:


>


 When Im happy I cant hide it...what I thought was an inflamed pancreas was a muscle strain...Ive been taking Tramadol and Im a bit weird at the moment so Im ditching the Trams and have a few scoops of Wainrights in my local Spoons....and just for good measure ..What do you get if you cross a quite fit newsreader with a board game.....

.....Natasha Kerplunksky


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 28, 2012)

he's lost it the feller!


----------



## audiotech (Feb 28, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> When Im happy I cant hide it...what I thought was an inflamed pancreas was a muscle strain...Ive been taking Tramadol and Im a bit weird at the moment so Im ditching the Trams and have a few scoops of Wainrights in my local Spoons....and just for good measure ..What do you get if you cross a quite fit newsreader with a board game.....
> 
> .....Natasha Kerplunksky


 
You're right to ditch the Trams, a bugger for constipation and comedy larfs.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 28, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> Interesting name.....


Kev Scott Loves the Jam.... my moniker from Lancaster Unity!


----------



## krink (Feb 28, 2012)

mal, we need an intervention for bignose, he's out of control with the punnery.


----------



## john x (Feb 28, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> One thing the programme didn't mention is how the EDL is dying on its arse and is now little more than a collection of facebook groups


 
They did mention it in as much as they said that support for both groups had plateaued. I don't know about the religious nutters but support for the EDL plateaued almost a year ago and has been in serious decline since then. Even the Hyde demo last Saturday, where I genuinely expected the figures to go up, continued the downward trend. Since the Tower Hamlets disaster last year every national demo has seen a decline in numbers and now they are struggling to get 500 to a national demo. Their 100,000+ facebook likes now stand at 3,500.

I know people don't like facebook 'likes' as a measure of anything but every time they are hacked I look at how long it takes to recover the first 2000 'likes' on the new official page as a measure of 'online interest' in the EDL. The first time they were hacked, it took less than a day to get up to 2000. the second time it took weeks to get to 2000 'likes'. The last time it was hacked it took 3 months to get to the 2000 level and now only stands at 3,500 even after two 'sympathetic' documentaries on national television. Ironically the 'hacked page' is still running and has more 'likes' than the official EDL page!

That decline is a story in itself but the Dispatches team either ignored it or more likely, weren't aware of it.

Disappointing programme overall. Dispatches' forte is deep research and the ability to dig up stuff over a long period. This programme had nothing about the financial irregularities including the missing £165,000 raised from merchandising, nothing about their links to, and financial support from various Zionist groups in the US and Israel, nothing about the links to Breivik and nothing about the increasingly large number of EDL supporters in jail for violent crimes including an attempt to set fire to a mosque in Stoke, attacks on Asians and their properties and attacks on left-wing meetings.

I know that the format was patriots vs Muslims but there could have been a lot more digging on both sides!

john x


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 28, 2012)

I too thought the show was "meh" overall and till 32 mins Cokeboy came out of it looking suprisingly well. Supporters will probably find the stuff at the end funny anyway.

A great deal was missed out with regards to the nazi and fascist elements in the party (those shown were highlighted as opposed to TR, although he picked a fight with them for very different reasons than their fascism)

Once again, attention has been given to extremists. The moderate and sensible Imam and councillor will never get a 50 min special between them. Why is that?

Nastiness and violence get the goods. Again.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 28, 2012)

krink said:


> mal, we need an intervention for bignose, he's out of control with the punnery.


 
I'm thinking of being a dick and tipping the infidels off about where he lives his puns have gotten to0 much!


----------



## fiannanahalba (Feb 28, 2012)

Liverpool Anti-fascist meeting Sunday 4th March 1pm Liverpool Guild of Students. Meeting called in response to increasing levels of fascist street activity in the city.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 29, 2012)

not sure if this has been posted, can't be arsed to check.


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## manny-p (Feb 29, 2012)

sunnysidedown said:


> not sure if this has been posted, can't be arsed to check.




Just started to watch that. Muslim guy telling others muslims not to swear at EDL on buses as its not islamic. What a cunt so far....


----------



## BlackArab (Feb 29, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Just started to watch that. Muslim guy telling others muslims not to swear at EDL on buses as its not islamic. What a cunt so far....


 
Haven't seen it but I'm struggling to understand why you think he's a cunt, was there more to this incident?


----------



## Fingers (Mar 1, 2012)

I have watched that documentary and it has certainly turned a number of EDLers around from what I have seen and questioning whether they want to be associated with the EDL.  I spoke to the guys who made it and they put it together on the basis that if it turns one EDLer around it was worth it.  It seems to have had the effect on quite a few.  One young lady I have been conversing with told me that she is no longer going to hate on all Muslims and try and get to know some of the local ones.

Anyway, i will leave you with this. Tommy has found  himself back in Derek Fender corner again

*Tommy Robinson reveals new drink of choice for far right 'patriots'*

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/derek-fend...ls-new-drink-of-choice-for-far-right-patriots


----------



## PlaidDragon (Mar 1, 2012)

Might just be me being thick but it looked to me like he was drinking Sprite.


----------



## manny-p (Mar 1, 2012)

BlackArab said:


> Haven't seen it but I'm struggling to understand why you think he's a cunt, was there more to this incident?


Watch it then.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 1, 2012)

it was the night before tower hamlets and he had talked himself into having to go and knew he was going to get nicked. it'd be an odd choice to drink sprite if you were going away for a while.


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## Fingers (Mar 1, 2012)

Judging by the state of him the next morning, that was not sprite


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## malatesta32 (Mar 1, 2012)

reet, we're awa' on oor hols for a month or so to work on the book! keep at it!


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## PlaidDragon (Mar 1, 2012)

Aye, but as I recall he had a small bottle of Sprite earlier on in the programme, so that probably etched itself onto my brain. Could have been Sprite and Vodka? Although in the grand scheme of things who gives a fuck. 

I thought the programme by and large was shite. The best bits were where they were talking to the moderate imam and the council woman. But apart from that, absolutely no attempts to dissect the conditions that have created these two groups, and no possible solution. It's totally unhelpful to let people hear these two nutters claiming to speak for large swathes of people without actually dissecting their ludicrous claims properly.


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## intersol32 (Mar 2, 2012)

Just had chance to catch the repeat of the Dispatches programme after being away for a few days.

I'd agree with previous posts about the programme overall being weak. The researchers didn't need to delve too far to reveal backgrounds for the majority of their leaders and financial supporters. Most of its common knowledge and already out there through stuff like Searchlight and EDL News, HNH etc.

In essence the whole thing was presented as a beginners guide to current UK 'extremism' with nothing more than a surface overview of political polar opposites.

As for its effects on negating any support for the EDL, I'd say that was questionable. Again it's one of those documentaries that if you come from an academic or left-wing background anyway, you'd say that the moderate view prevails and the EDL come across as violent, thuggish morons. However if you were from the background that the EDL primarily targets (white working class, no political knowledge etc) you'd probably say that the EDL came out of it quite well. This is despite the rest of us laughing at Tommy getting drunk, throwing stones at police etc etc. In some respects it may even endear him to certain viewers. Especially when the latter footage was so obviously taken in a semi covert manner which could come across to sympathisers as slightly dishonest or underhanded.

I'd state again that a supposed decline in attendances at EDL or NWI demos, or an analysis of Facebook 'likes' can be incredibly deceiving. It's obvious to any casual observer, that whilst support for the EDL or certain other groups may have reached their high points long ago, the proliferation of racist, fascist or far-right ideas is still gaining ground. The problems with the aforementioned groups is that it is purely an organizational issue, or because they lack political coherence.

My own opinion is that the left are largely sat around twiddling their thumbs and (out of recent historical habit) ignoring the working class, whilst waiting for a more dynamic far-right group to come in and articulate the supposed concerns of these communities. There certainly doesn't seem to be anything standing in their way.


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## john x (Mar 2, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> the proliferation of racist, fascist or far-right ideas is still gaining ground.


 
Do you have any evidence for this?

john x


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## Corax (Mar 2, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Watch it then.


I'm 20 of the 27 minutes in, and I'm struggling to see why he's a cunt too tbh.

He may come over as a bit sanctimonious at times, but I think that's merely a byproduct of his efforts to behave in the way he's advocating.  He looks to be good at engaging with others, and the more he and others are successful in doing this, the less ammunition the EDL have to point to as 'violent, barbaric, hostile Islam'.


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## intersol32 (Mar 2, 2012)

john x said:


> Do you have any evidence for this?
> 
> john x


 
There are a number of reports in recent years which suggest that racism or far-right ideas are prevalent in communities throughout the uk. Quite often however, the definitions are hard to pin down. Although there may be attitudes against immigration, or 'islamophobia' these are not always defined as racist view points - this is why I use the broader concept of "fascist or far-right ideas".

On the above issue of Islamophobia, it could be said that whereas the UK has experienced a gradual acceptance of aspects of multi-culturalism (such as mixed race marriages etc) there are some within the population that may view themselves as non-racist (due to the aforementioned fact) but hold stridently anti-islamic opinions. This is one of the existing positions within the EDL.

We could also take the popularity and increase in vote for the BNP. Again, I feel that their decline in recent years is inherently organisational, rather than suggestive of a decline in actual support via the electoral process.

I think it's worth quoting a couple of sections from the Red Pepper AFA interview here just to emphasize this:

_"*Michael:* Clearly the nature of the far right threat has changed a lot since those days, with the changes to the BNP under the leadership of Nick Griffin. In the introduction of the book your talking at a point when the the BNP on are a high, after the European elections. Since then after the General Election it appears that - as an organisation - they don't seem to be in a position to go much further. So what threat do you see them posing today? _
_*Gary: *What you said there was important, 'as an organisation' - it doesn't take away from the support they've shown they can establish. I think with the BNP it's partly that they never had the experience of high political office, didn't have the opportunity. To begin with they didn't have the middle class types, they were having to fight for the same survival thing which we drew them into, they were all on the streets even Griffin. They were stuck in waiting rooms on stations on Stockport and all that - they never had the chance to step out of the scenario. Next thing, they're MEPs, they've dozens of councillors. Where have they done the planning for that? They're used to planning Blood and Honour gigs in backrooms of pubs in Deptford. Suddenly they're elevated. Not equipped - first thing. Second thing - they've felt the long arm of the state, no question. Inside, everywhere, every which way - diced and sliced - and at at the same time the key component was to decapitate the organisation, which they've failed to do, which was a key [state] objective. _

_The BNP might limp along, but the die has been cast, right, in the sense that the radical alternative will come from the far right within the constituencies we've identified. The left has not done anything to address that - at all - in thirty years. They'd no appetite do that, less appetite to do it now, even. There's nothing on the left that could organise it on a national level."_

also.....

_"Michael: There's another account of what cut across the rise of the BNP which I'm sure you won't like at all, namely that Searchlight and their allies in Barking and Dagenham managed to mobilise the existing community groups, trade unions, faith groups etc along with all the residual support that exists for the Labour party in order to unseat every single one of their councillors. _

_Andy: They had all those resources and completed a full circle - you had the state, so-called anti-fascist and anti-racist groups, religious groups and what have you - to reinstate the status quo. The status quo is back. Labour rules. Why did people vote BNP in the first place? _

_Gary: And also the BNP vote went up didn't it? That's the future you're looking at."_


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 2, 2012)

wrt the Dispatches thing, my facebook was showing quite a lot of statuses from friends/old school friends back 'ome... alot of folks seem to have watched it and it seemed to split opinion, i'd say primarily on the side of the EDL.

personally, i think the only part where Tommy let himself down was when he was pissed and being a dickhead to that kindly Muslim gent in the bus/train station... other than that i think he'll have come across relatively well, despite the glimpses of his organisation bubbling beneath the surface


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## sunny jim (Mar 2, 2012)

"I thought the programme by and large was shite. The best bits were where they were talking to the moderate imam and the council woman. But apart from that, absolutely no attempts to dissect the conditions that have created these two groups, and no possible solution. It's totally unhelpful to let people hear these two nutters claiming to speak for large swathes of people without actually dissecting their ludicrous claims properly."

^^^This


----------



## Fingers (Mar 2, 2012)

The Casuals have cancelled their Blackpool demo due to fighting with the Downes family

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/edl-news/downes-family-used-edl-casuals-to-stir-up-race-hate


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## ayatollah (Mar 2, 2012)

intersol32 quote
There are a number of reports in recent years which suggest that racism or far-right ideas are prevalent in communities throughout the uk. Quite often however, the definitions are hard to pin down. Although there may be attitudes against immigration, or 'islamophobia' these are not always defined as racist view points - this is why I use the broader concept of "fascist or far-right ideas".
On the above issue of Islamophobia, it could be said that whereas the UK has experienced a gradual acceptance of aspects of multi-culturalism (such as mixed race marriages etc) there are some within the population that may view themselves as non-racist (due to the aforementioned fact) but hold stridently anti-islamic opinions. This is one of the existing positions within the EDL.


I think there is a danger of worrying ourselves into unnecessary feelings of powerlessness  on this issue. based on (imo) a set of false premises. ALL research information I have read about in recent years suggests that , compared to 30 years ago when the NF was growing fast on the back of very. very widespread very basic "anti black" racism, today there is a massive ACCEPTANCE of the multiETHNIC (rather than necessarily "multiCULTURAL") nature of UK society. The huge increase in multi ethnic family groups as stated above for instance has had a massive effect on the views of the "indigenous" white community.

 That the mass media has managed to whip up a pretty pavlovian response to the whole Islamic community specifically (rather than  the entire  non white community), on the back of a tiny number of terrorist outrages, and some cultural practices which the indigenous community (understandably) finds unnacceptable - particularly the oppression of women, is undoubtedly true - but I would suggest is actually quite a "thin" long term basis for the building of a Far Right mass party. This is in the context of the rising tide of working class/trades union struggle against the bosses austerity offensive - which the LEFT is undoubtedly heavily involved in (look at the November pensions mass strikes, and the recent successes over workfare), and in terms of some recent strikes , eg, Barnsley Busworkers, the Electricians dispute with Balfour Beatty, is actually winning some. Where are the fascists on this ? NOWHERE, thats where.

 So whilst in no way denying that hard times, and scapegoating, will continue to provide a fertile source of shit stirring for the fascists, the opportunities for the Left are now greater than at any time since the defeat of the miners in 1984.


----------



## intersol32 (Mar 2, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> intersol32 quote
> There are a number of reports in recent years which suggest that racism or far-right ideas are prevalent in communities throughout the uk. Quite often however, the definitions are hard to pin down. Although there may be attitudes against immigration, or 'islamophobia' these are not always defined as racist view points - this is why I use the broader concept of "fascist or far-right ideas".
> On the above issue of Islamophobia, it could be said that whereas the UK has experienced a gradual acceptance of aspects of multi-culturalism (such as mixed race marriages etc) there are some within the population that may view themselves as non-racist (due to the aforementioned fact) but hold stridently anti-islamic opinions. This is one of the existing positions within the EDL.
> 
> ...


 
As I've mentioned before, I don't feel that groups such as the BNP or NF have ever established a continuous vertical climb in terms of popularity. It's more a case of peaks and troughs (high points in the 70's, then a drop, but peaks again in the early 90's then 2000's). In the same instance a close study of the tactics many fascist groups have used shows the ability to change and adapt with growing social, cultural or political trends. This is normally where the schism occurs, and groups split into differing factions (termed by some academics as "ultras" and "realtos" - self explanatory I guess).

I agree that the Left have been active and influential in those campaigns which you mentioned. But while they've had successes in those areas, where are the same successes when it comes to dealing with the alienated and disenfranchised working class? (many of which are not touched upon in regards to the aforementioned campaigns because they're not busworkers, electricians etc. In fact in the current climate they're more likely to be unemployed). Remember what the French Far Right talked about when they mentioned "being on the landings" in those estates. This is despite the French left holding solid support within the French Trade Unions etc.

Interesting that you mentioned the Miners Strike by the way. Sometimes I wonder where the British left disappeared to once the strike ended and the pits were closed. In many instances there wasn't exactly a rush to help those areas, and interestingly enough some of the ex-pit communities later turned out strong support for the BNP etc.


----------



## josef1878 (Mar 3, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Interesting that you mentioned the Miners Strike by the way. Sometimes I wonder where the British left disappeared to once the strike ended and the pits were closed. In many instances there wasn't exactly a rush to help those areas, and interestingly enough some of the ex-pit communities later turned out strong support for the BNP etc.



I live in one of those areas. Yeh the BNP may get a few hundred votes here and there but there are thousands more racists who haven't voted for them. Yet. A lot of my mates are ex-pitmen who really suffered during the strike, still vote SP. But racist.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 3, 2012)

We've got Rochdale away tomorrow and there's strong rumours that all the pubs will be shut cos the BNP/EDL are marching. Anyone know if it's true?

It's bad enough them being a bunch of racist cunts but when they get in the way of my pre-match pint it's time for me to start making sure my grandad's service revolver is still working properly


----------



## bignose1 (Mar 3, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> We've got Rochdale away tomorrow and there's strong rumours that all the pubs will be shut cos the BNP/EDL are marching. Anyone know if it's true?
> 
> It's bad enough them being a bunch of racist cunts but when they get in the way of my pre-match pint it's time for me to start making sure my grandad's service revolver is still working properly


Ill have a luger and lime


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 3, 2012)

Back to "Dispatches" - one good thing to emerge in propaganda terms is Lennon repeatedly making jokes about Breivik. No opportunity should be lost in rubbing EDL noses in this: Their leader thinks the mass murder of kids, by a guy far from unlinked to them, is really funny. All you have to do is ask them if they find the mass murder of kids as funny as their leader. Watch the fuckers squirm. It's probably one of the best baiting lines out there.


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## Ranbay (Mar 3, 2012)

and EDL ipetition getting trashed....

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/labelhalalmeatinengland/signatures


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## Corax (Mar 3, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> and EDL ipetition getting trashed....
> 
> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/labelhalalmeatinengland/signatures





> Quite right too - I personally refuse to eat any meat anless the method of slaughter involved the animal being budgeoned to death with an England flag whilst the butcher shouts "God save the Queen!".​


----------



## ayatollah (Mar 3, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Back to "Dispatches" - one good thing to emerge in propaganda terms is Lennon repeatedly making jokes about Breivik. No opportunity should be lost in rubbing EDL noses in this: Their leader thinks the mass murder of kids, by a guy far from unlinked to them, is really funny. All you have to do is ask them if they find the mass murder of kids as funny as their leader. Watch the fuckers squirm. It's probably one of the best baiting lines out there.


 
Whilst the EDL admittedly draws its support from quite a broad spread of Far Right, rather than necessarily Nazi,  positions, any serious Nazi would of course be completely unfazed by the prospect of the mass murder of children - of the "right sort" of course, eg, Muslims, Gypsies, Jews , disabled, etc. The Einsatzgruppen which ranged all over Eastern Europe had a very busy job shooting (Jewish) schoolchildren in the head into preprepared trenches. In case anyone thinks the fascists have "forgotten" or are "in denial" about  all this - I well remember in the 80's the habit of NF boneheads in bringing bars of soap with them on their marches ... so they could wave them at us Lefties ... as a gleeful reminder of the rendering down in slow ovens of Jewish murder victims to make soap. These are NOT nice people -- generally not very embarassable about mass murder in my experience.


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 3, 2012)

wasn't the soap an anti-hippy thing?


----------



## fiannanahalba (Mar 3, 2012)

They claim they do it these days to wind up the left as the unwashed smelly hippies etc.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Mar 3, 2012)

is that really where it came from originally then? pretty serious stuff


----------



## manny-p (Mar 3, 2012)

Corax said:


> I'm 20 of the 27 minutes in, and I'm struggling to see why he's a cunt too tbh.
> 
> He may come over as a bit sanctimonious at times, but I think that's merely a byproduct of his efforts to behave in the way he's advocating. He looks to be good at engaging with others, and the more he and others are successful in doing this, the less ammunition the EDL have to point to as 'violent, barbaric, hostile Islam'.


 
Ok maybe cunt was abit harsh. But to me there is few things more irritating than bible/koran bashers getting sanctimonious on folk. Didn't mean to offend.


----------



## bignose1 (Mar 3, 2012)

W


fiannanahalba said:


> They claim they do it these days to wind up the left as the unwashed smelly hippies etc.


Well thats lifeboy


----------



## intersol32 (Mar 3, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> Whilst the EDL admittedly draws its support from quite a broad spread of Far Right, rather than necessarily Nazi, positions, any serious Nazi would of course be completely unfazed by the prospect of the mass murder of children - of the "right sort" of course, eg, Muslims, Gypsies, Jews , disabled, etc. The Einsatzgruppen which ranged all over Eastern Europe had a very busy job shooting (Jewish) schoolchildren in the head into preprepared trenches. In case anyone thinks the fascists have "forgotten" or are "in denial" about all this - I well remember in the 80's the habit of NF boneheads in bringing bars of soap with them on their marches ... so they could wave them at us Lefties ... as a gleeful reminder of the rendering down in slow ovens of Jewish murder victims to make soap. These are NOT nice people -- generally not very embarassable about mass murder in my experience.


 
My thoughts exactly. It appears that the majority of Neo-Nazis (even closet ones) only appear concerned about the murder of jewish children etc. when they know it'll be used to tarnish their public image. It's obvious when watching the EDL documentary, that many of their supporters aren't really too upset about the actions of someone like Breivik. In fact privately they'll probably be treating him as another heroic figure in their struggle. They just know that in reality it'll be difficult to rationally express that view to ordinary people, because thankfully the majority of normal well-adjusted humanity finds those actions abhorrent.


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## Red Storm (Mar 3, 2012)

http://menmedia.co.uk/rochdaleobser...s-national-front-protesters-gather-in-heywood

NF in rochdale today


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## Ranbay (Mar 3, 2012)

Anon have taken the .org site down, so i hear.


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## manny-p (Mar 3, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> http://menmedia.co.uk/rochdaleobser...s-national-front-protesters-gather-in-heywood
> 
> NF in rochdale today


Heywood not rochdale!


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## BigTom (Mar 3, 2012)

Apparently the Walsall Casuals Utd/EDL demo planned for today was nothing in the end, one person said no-one turned out, saw someone else on twitter saying 4 EDL showed up, the 6 of them walked towards them and they disappeared and weren't seen again.


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 4, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> intersol32
> 
> So whilst in no way denying that hard times, and scapegoating, will continue to provide a fertile source of shit stirring for the fascists, the opportunities for the Left are now greater than at any time since the defeat of the miners in 1984.


 
In reality 1984 marked the beginning of the end for the Left as a whole. They have not won a single thing of note since. Meanwhile the whole of society has moved to the right. The welfare state in terms of housing, education, health, and legal aid is more or less kaput. Even in the midst of the biggest economic crash since the 30's the default position for the three main right-wing parties is to move further to the right. See for instance the recent plans to privatise the police.

In other words the neo-liberal project (with the odd populist concession to secure electoral advantage) is alive and kicking. What is visible in terms of a radical alternative to the neo-liberal right is the _nationalist_ right, as is the case, incidentally, in the majority of countries across the Channel.

Not only is there no fresh thinking (Lenin is still mourned and the point of production still worshipped) coming from anywhere on the Left - there is in real world terms, no coherent Left left. Citing a strike in Barnsley as a sign of renaissance - when in better times far larger trade union victories have 'never moved' to quote Marx 'the struggle forward a single inch' is a succinct example of terminal denial.

Best advice: cancel your _Socialist Worker_ subscription.


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## ayatollah (Mar 4, 2012)

Joe, Joe, Joe. You are a great guy, and I salute your heroic past record in the anti fascist struggle,

BUT

I may have not been clear when I mentioned the defeat of the 1984 miners strike as a cut off point for the Left. I agree with you that that was a historic class defeat - of a working class already on the back foot from the generalised Thatcherite offensive of anti labour laws, high unemployment , and the fundamental "social engineering" of big company outsourcing , to break up the big battalions" of the old labour movement.

As we now now, this was repeated, particularly in the USA under Reagan, and onwards - with the consequence of there being, in the next 25 years the biggest relative transfer of income to the rich from the working class since Victorian times.

This undoubtedly meant the "end of an era" for the Left. Even the reformist "Left" of "Labourism" with its moderate welfarism and statist agenda was replaced , almost worldwide, certainly in the UK, by the neo Thatcherites of Blair and his clones. Of course for most working class people, riding the long property bubble and easy credit boom which, with a few cyclical "blips" was pretty constant for 25 years, the need for socialist, even reformist "socialist" policies and politics, seemed irrelevant - everyone thought they were simply "consumerist middle class". This left only petty nationalist and racist dissatisfactions amongst strata of UK White Working class citizens, often relatively uneducated and poorer, feeling left behind by the apparent "party" based on personal debt, that everyone else seemed to be having - and the shock to their sense of community dealt by the growing reality of multi cultural (rather than "multicultural") Britain. The BNP rode this wave of minority dissatisfaction well - but it was always a minority pool they could fish in in the UK, NEVER big enough to be a mass party on the French NF model.

Now that 1984 to 2008 era is also OVER "Joe" , capitalism is back in a fundamental classic long term crisis, with no obvious upturn coming up any time soon. Who has a STRATEGY and mode of ACTION which can assist the working class to resist and fight back against all the austerity measures planned and being carried out ? The fascists ? Definitely NOT - all they offer is scapegoatism , which will not reverse a single social services cut, pension robbery, or wage cut. Their petty nationalist "autarkist" economic nostrums are as unpopular to our globalised ruling class as the strategies of the Left, and offer no rational way forward for our economy. You mock the fightback examples, led by the Left I cited, but these are just the tip of the iceberg of local and national resistance being led by the broad Left (by which I include Anarchists) . Only Socialism, as a society run by the working class, on a planned basis, with the power of Capital destroyed, offers a way out of the current world impasse. And yes, the solution DOES involve taking into state ownership and planning the "commanding heights of the economy" - just as true now as when it was concocted. To assume that "Leninism" or more accurately "stalinism" is the only possibile variant of a planned economy, and therefore to dismiss Democratic Socialism itself is to misunderstand the specific historic reasons for the rise of the perversion of socialism we call "stalinism" .

Sure the Far Right is on the march everywhere too, but what's New ? The coming struggle WILL undoubtedly be an ideological and physical struggle between the class forces of socialism and fascism . What I don't understand is where YOU will stand in this struggle , "Joe". You must admit, surely, that you have been proved WRONG in a major way, on the potential of the BNP to maintain its growth , and seem to be in total awe of the growth of the Far Right in general. What are YOU offering as a national strategy against the current neo liberal "turn the pockets out of the working class " offensive, and the siren calls of both Far Right and Welsh/Scottish "Left Face" nationalism ? A simply (IWCA) localist agenda of working in working class communities to fight cuts , without a national and indeed international, agenda, is no sort of strategy at all. I think you have to face up to the now very well proven FACT guys, the IWCA strategy FAILED, was based on a faulty long term premise , and leads nowhere (nowhere to the LEFT of British politics anyway). Better return to the socialist fold ASAP , or you could get lost in all sorts of HIGHLY DUBIOUS political dead ends from now on. I fear for where your analysis and politics is leading you , my old comrades, seriously.


----------



## krink (Mar 4, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> W
> 
> Well thats lifeboy


 you're such a camay-dian


----------



## Red Storm (Mar 4, 2012)

.


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 4, 2012)

speaking in an understandable dialect is definitely very important, and not often observed.. but i also think one of the problems for the left is a failure to recognise that they're simply not large enough at present to engage in 'proper' politics... i.e. actual political struggles for power (on all kinds of levels, Trade Unions, local councils, etc).

the amount of energy it takes the present left to maintain the paltry positions they have on different councils and in different TU hierarchies in no way correlates to their actual forces. it's not just the organisations of the left which have taken a beating, it's also the fundamental _ideas_ of the left - i would say particularly wrt 'class consciousness' and solidarity - which have stagnated and become sick jokes of themselves. hearing UAF speakers on the Leicester demo last year talking about their glorious 'victory' in the tradition of Cable St. whilst the EDL ran rampant around the town centre smashing up asian owned chicken shops and twatting teenagers was actually sickening.

personally i think the left has to go back to basics and rebuild these basic notions, linked to community work definitely but not running in gung-ho like the IWCA and going for exhausting councillor positions straight away. being a local councillor is full time, and the vast majority of that time is not spent advancing the general cause of the left in the hearts and minds of the people - it's spent dealing with the painful issues of day-to-day life in often deprived areas of town. you need an army to tackle those kinds of issues, not the handful of activists the left currently sports.

thinking about the long term, we should be producing films, theatre, public debates, art, music, etc with just as much if not more energy than is currently spent 'campaigning'. before we can get proper power we need to win back the ideas.

relating this back into dealing with the far right, i also think it's this way which can get to tackling their real weapon:- the latent reactionary prejudiced which lie behind almost all of our society's social discourse.


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## Red Storm (Mar 4, 2012)

http://networkedblogs.com/uKNBG

^^^^^^Report from the anti-fascist coordinating meeting in Liverpool today. 

I'm not convinced that fascism has shifted its focus to controlling the streets.


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## bignose1 (Mar 4, 2012)

krink said:


> you're such a camay-dian


Its catching......


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## bignose1 (Mar 4, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> Joe, Joe, Joe. You are a great guy, and I salute your heroic past record in the anti fascist struggle,
> 
> BUT
> 
> ...


 


Joe Reilly said:


> In reality 1984 marked the beginning of the end for the Left as a whole. They have not won a single thing of note since. Meanwhile the whole of society has moved to the right. The welfare state in terms of housing, education, health, and legal aid is more or less kaput. Even in the midst of the biggest economic crash since the 30's the default position for the three main right-wing parties is to move further to the right. See for instance the recent plans to privatise the police.
> 
> In other words the neo-liberal project (with the odd populist concession to secure electoral advantage) is alive and kicking. What is visible in terms of a radical alternative to the neo-liberal right is the _nationalist_ right, as is the case, incidentally, in the majority of countries across the Channel.
> 
> ...


Give me Radiohead any time


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 4, 2012)

No ALARM!s and no SWPrises?


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## josef1878 (Mar 4, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> No ALARM!s and no SWPrises?



I'll take the quiet life, thank you


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## DrRingDing (Mar 4, 2012)

Does anyone know where the EDL are meeting in Aarhus at the end of the month?


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## intersol32 (Mar 4, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> http://networkedblogs.com/uKNBG
> 
> ^^^^^^Report from the anti-fascist coordinating meeting in Liverpool today.
> 
> I'm not convinced that fascism has shifted its focus to controlling the streets.


 
As an overall strategy some would say it's up for debate. However, the reality in the North West (which is why the meeting was called today) is that certain groups such as the NWI in particular are certainly adopting this as an immediate tactic for now. Added to this is that other Fascist groups like the BNP, who are having organizational difficulties and still need to attract recruits or be overshadowed by the EDL etc, are allowing their members/supporters more freedom to indulge in street level activity (targetting left wingers etc) often alongside fascist/far right groups that they wouldn't have gone near a couple of years ago.

It's certainly no attempt to recreate the 1970's from what we can tell, but the increase in fascist street activity in these areas definitely requires a response.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 4, 2012)

I've got a few mates in Barnsley and from what they've told me the BNP round there has suffered a lot from the internal problems, with people deserting them for the NWI in relatively large numbers. On the one hand that reduces the political threat (I'm still of the belief that, for the time being, the BNP is still the only credible political vehicle the far right have) but at the same time it makes it a lot more dangerous to be an antifascist, a left winger or a foreigner in Barnsley. And Barnsley's fucking depressing enough without all that shite.


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 5, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> You must admit, surely, that you have been proved WRONG in a major way, on the potential of the BNP to maintain its growth , and seem to be in total awe of the growth of the Far Right in general.


 
I don't think so. The game is far from played out. In_ Filling the Vacuum_ 1995, it predicted that the time would arrive when the far-right may well control 'its own destiny'. That has visibly been case for a decade or more and is still the case. It's still entirely up to them in regards to what they do. Despite their recent internal difficulties they have not been damaged much less beaten ideologically.

More to the point they have not been damaged much less beaten by the Left.

In the general election in 2010 it tripled it's vote. And if their return in the Euro election, based on a 30 per cent turn out in 2008 is extrapolated, it reveals an electoral base of 2 million plus. This will not have evaporated over night. The straightforward challenge for the far-right is to harness it. Whether they do or not is entirely up to them.  The Left will have nothing to do with it.

This is the gist of the AFA prediction at a time when the biggest ever vote for the BNP was considerably less than 10,000 in the General Election.

But if you insist we were 'wrong in a major way' to speak of BNP potential who is it we should aplogise to? 

Nor is it accurate to claim that I or others on here are 'in awe' of of the growth of the Far Right in general. This would suggest it has come as something of a surprise. When again it is perfectly obvious that the opposite is the case.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 5, 2012)

Not the best audio visual quality, but good enough.

This could be the most damaging footage of cokeboy yet, culled from "Dispatches", making not 1 but 2 "jokes" about the mass murder of children.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=24vnzug&s=5


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Not the best audio visual quality, but good enough.
> 
> This could be the most damaging footage of cokeboy yet, culled from "Dispatches", making not 1 but 2 "jokes" about the mass murder of children.
> 
> http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=24vnzug&s=5


 
Was any of that footage culled?


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 5, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> A simply (IWCA) localist agenda of working in working class communities to fight cuts , without a national and indeed international, agenda, is no sort of strategy at all. I think you have to face up to the now very well proven FACT guys, the IWCA strategy FAILED, was based on a faulty long term premise , and leads nowhere (nowhere to the LEFT of British politics anyway). Better return to the socialist fold ASAP , or you could get lost in all sorts of HIGHLY DUBIOUS political dead ends from now on. I fear for where your analysis and politics is leading you , my old comrades, seriously.


 
As ever, it is grimly amusing to note the introspection that judges an orientation directly to working class communities as evidence of drifting to the right, seeing as how it can only be regarded with suspicion if it is judged that the indigenous working class are at heart reactionary.

Which is exactly the product the Left have been subliminally advertising ever since Marcuse: 'socialism _without_ the working class', followed by the inevitable tactical adjustments ending with 'socialism _against_ the working class'.

Instinctively, working class people know this, and hate you for it. Which was one the things the IWCA pilot schemes set out to investigate/remedy. The IWCA results compared to say the SWP, or SA in a similar time period, speak for themselves.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 5, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Was any of that footage culled?



Culled as in "taken from". Have I used the wrong word?


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Culled as in "taken from". Have I used the wrong word?


 
I thought the use was as in it was cut from the final showing. 'Deleted scene' as it were.


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## Ranbay (Mar 5, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I thought the use was as in it was cut from the final showing. 'Deleted scene' as it were.


 
no that was from the show, sound low as baby was sleeping


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## frogwoman (Mar 5, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> As ever, it is grimly amusing to note the introspection that judges an orientation directly to working class communities as evidence of drifting to the right, seeing as how it can only be regarded with suspicion if it is judged that the indigenous working class are at heart reactionary.
> 
> Which is exactly product the Left have been subliminally advertising ever since Marcuse: 'socialism _without_ the working class', followed by the inevitable tactical adjustments ending with 'socialism _against_ the working class'.
> 
> Instinctively, working class people know this, and hate you for it.


 
to be fair i don't think he was saying that the IWCA working directly with w/c communities was the problem, but that it wasn't linked up nationally/internationally etc but only in a very small number of areas. maybe hes wrong tho or i am, don't know enough to comment. that was my reading of his post tho


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## past caring (Mar 5, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> to be fair i don't think he was saying that the IWCA working directly with w/c communities was the problem, but that it wasn't linked up nationally/internationally etc but only in a very small number of areas. maybe hes wrong tho or i am, don't know enough to comment. that was my reading of his post tho


 
And this?



ayatollah said:


> Better return to the socialist fold ASAP , or you could get lost in all sorts of HIGHLY DUBIOUS political dead ends from now on. I fear for where your analysis and politics is leading you , my old comrades, seriously.


----------



## ayatollah (Mar 5, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> As ever, it is grimly amusing to note the introspection that judges an orientation directly to working class communities as evidence of drifting to the right, seeing as how it can only be regarded with suspicion if it is judged that the indigenous working class are at heart reactionary.
> 
> Which is exactly the product the Left have been subliminally advertising ever since Marcuse: 'socialism _without_ the working class', followed by the inevitable tactical adjustments ending with 'socialism _against_ the working class'.
> 
> Instinctively, working class people know this, and hate you for it. Which was one the things the IWCA pilot schemes set out to investigate/remedy. The IWCA results compared to say the SWP, or SA in a similar time period, speak for themselves.


 
No problem with anyone "working with the working class" but to what ENDS , Joe ? Lots of groups/parties, cults, work with the working class in working class communities , right across the political spectrum. My problem with those without a socialist political agenda, a national and INTERNATIONALIST socialist agenda, is that at a time of ever greater cutbacks in resources available to local government and local community projects an agenda that aims at some sort of "working class power in working class communities" is doomed to run directly up against the lack of any real POWER to influence the availability of resources - if a localist agenda isn't part of a much broader working class poiltical struggle - for control of the STATE, its resources, and the interconnected resources of other states (with their working classes in partnership). Also, it may seem to non socialists to be an old cliche but it is nevertheless the case that for the working classes ,the maximum source of power vis a vis capitalism remains at the point of production , the office, the factory , the shop, NOT in the residential community. This reality is tough on the unemployed working class, and they can be organised around localist agendas, and campaigns, but it is by withdrawing labour and exerting influence in the work situation that workers have always had maximun impact on the capitalist system - certainly not just by voting in local elections .

To be honest, standing in local elections, campaigning around local issues, is good, but standing on a label of "independent" and "working class" is not much of a challenge really - compared to socialist groups standing on a principled platform as "Socialists" and trying to raise working class people's ambitions and perspectives to a joined up systemic understanding of changing SOCIETY, not just small details of their local environment. The reality is that quite enough time has now passed to say the IWCA experiment has failed. You have not made any sort of political breakthrough on a non-socialist, "localist working class agenda". And the IWCA approach certainly has NO answer to the current systemic capitalist crisis. Socialism does though, and a lot of different socialist groups are building the fightback.. the IWCA approach hasn't, and at a time of ever tightening screws on locally available resources, simply can't.

I have no problem with the constant posts here from yourself and other IWCA co-believers , effectively bigging up the BNP as an unstoppable social force - though it has proved to be competely WRONG... I just wish your posts spent a bit more time offering a joined up ALTERNATIVE to the fascist antics - otherwise its just depressing negativism - which also serves to exaggerate the attraction , and genuine solution offering capability of the Far Right Agenda - when in fact they have no solutions - just scapegoating, violence and the  division of the working class.


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

I agree with you Ayatollah on the principles of (revolutionary) socialism as the working class' answer to fascism and capitalism but to lead with that statement on estates and work places is abstract at best. I think we've got to walk before we can run, and the left has forgotten to walk since 1984.

I think what the IWCA achieved was a signal to the left. The dog work of door knocking and looking at local issues got results, and by getting councillors you have a chance at getting material gains for working class people. I believe the IWCA got Oxford Uni to allow locals to use its sport facilities.

The far left is no longer speaking in 'plain proletarian English' and is instead blabbing on about theories of the state, how "Marx was right" and about someone called Trotsky. Once the far left connects with working class communities through speaking in 'plain proletarian English' and begins to do dog work about issues which are effecting local working class people materially (be it anti-social behaviour or fly tipping) then you can move onto the theories of revolutionary socialism. The latter stage is key in my opinion although I'm not saying once you've helped with the fly tipping you bombard them with Gramsci.

I think the IWCA's failure was more down to numbers than much else.


----------



## intersol32 (Mar 5, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I agree with you Ayatollah on the principles of (revolutionary) socialism as the working class' answer to fascism and capitalism but to lead with that statement on estates and work places is abstract at best. I think we've got to walk before we can run, and the left has forgotten to walk since 1984.
> 
> I think what the IWCA achieved was a signal to the left. The dog work of door knocking and looking at local issues got results, and by getting councillors you have a chance at getting material gains for working class people. I believe the IWCA got Oxford Uni to allow locals to use its sport facilities.
> 
> ...


 
Spot on.


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 5, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> As ever, it is grimly amusing to note the introspection that judges an orientation directly to working class communities as evidence of drifting to the right, seeing as how it can only be regarded with suspicion if it is judged that the indigenous working class are at heart reactionary.
> 
> Which is exactly the product the Left have been subliminally advertising ever since Marcuse: 'socialism _without_ the working class', followed by the inevitable tactical adjustments ending with 'socialism _against_ the working class'.
> 
> Instinctively, working class people know this, and hate you for it. Which was one the things the IWCA pilot schemes set out to investigate/remedy. The IWCA results compared to say the SWP, or SA in a similar time period, speak for themselves.


 
^ Just about sums it up perfectly.

What really takes the piss though is the constant 'IWCA failed' mantra parroted. By any measurement the IWCA has achieved much more than any other progressive organisation since 1997 in terms of credibility, impact and results in working class areas. The fact that what passes itself off as the left either ignored or were actively hostile to the approach rather than from studying it and adopting it is the real failure.

And that, ultimately, is why there are no quick fixes or easy steps to getting an audience never mind support for anything the left might have to say about anything even in the middle of a neo-liberal crisis .


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## JHE (Mar 5, 2012)

Smokeandsteam said:


> By any measurement the IWCA has achieved much more than any other progressive organisation since 1997 in terms of credibility, impact and results in working class areas. The fact that what passes itself off as the left either ignored or were actively hostile to the approach rather than from studying it and adopting it is the real failure.


 
But the IWCA approach to politics just hasn't caught on, has it?

It's no good blaming the remnants of the left for that.  If the IWCA were growing, the failures of the fragments of the left would be seen as utterly irrelevant.


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

JHE said:


> But the IWCA approach to politics just hasn't caught on, has it?
> 
> It's no good blaming the remnants of the left for that. If the IWCA were growing, the failures of the fragments of the left would be seen as utterly irrelevant.


 
So you're blaming the IWCA for their successful ideas not being taken up by the failing, embarrassing, sectoids of the far left?


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## JHE (Mar 5, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> So you're blaming the IWCA for their successful ideas not being taken up by the failing, embarrassing, sectoids of the far left?


 
Why are you focusing on the left?


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

JHE said:


> Why are you focusing on the left?


 
Do you want to focus on the right?!


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## JHE (Mar 5, 2012)

Oh come on - the great bulk of people are not in any political sect left or right


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

JHE said:


> Oh come on - the great bulk of people are not in any political sect left or right


 
What the are you on about.

We're talking about the IWCA and the far left.


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## JHE (Mar 5, 2012)

I think you understand my point perfectly well.  You just don't like it.  The fact is the IWCA has not taken off.  Pity, but there you are.


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 5, 2012)

JHE said:


> But the IWCA approach to politics just hasn't caught on, has it?
> 
> It's no good blaming the remnants of the left for that. If the IWCA were growing, the failures of the fragments of the left would be seen as utterly irrelevant.


 
But you need activists to start the work in the first place. It doesn't happen by magic and from a standing start.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 5, 2012)

JHE is dead right IMO. The question should be, _why_ was "the IWCA's failure... more down to numbers than much else."? Why weren't they able to attract bigger numbers?

That the far left ignored or smeared them may be true but that's not really relevant - the far left isn't really relevant. The IWCA didn't really orientate towards the far left, it quite explicitly avoided questions of socialism etc and instead (rightly IMO) orientated itself towards working class communities, towards the working class itself. The question is, then, why did these ideas, this approach, not take off among the working class?

We can avoid answering the question, preferring to blame the far left for not getting involved, but to do that is to avoid getting the answers that might help in working out how such an approach _could_ be made to take off.


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

JHE said:


> I think you understand my point perfectly well. You just don't like it. The fact is the IWCA has not taken off. Pity, but there you are.


 
I get what you're talking about now I've read SN's comment. 

I don't think I can answer why the IWCA wasn't able to attract more people into its fold.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 5, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> JHE is dead right IMO.


 
Never thought I'd say that on a thread about the EDL!


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 5, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I get what you're talking about now I've read SN's comment.
> 
> I don't think I can answer why the IWCA wasn't able to attract more people into its fold.


 
Nor can I to be honest, nor can anyone I've spoken to. Which is a shame cos if we can't answer that any attempts at recreating the IWCA model are probably doomed to failure


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Nor can I to be honest, nor can anyone I've spoken to. Which is a shame cos if we can't answer that any attempts at recreating the IWCA model are probably doomed to failure


 
The way I meant it was that I do not possess the knowledge to answer the question. There are certainly people on Urban who do.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 5, 2012)

In which case I'm all ears (or eyes as since is a messageboard)


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## past caring (Mar 5, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> JHE is dead right IMO. The question should be, _why_ was "the IWCA's failure... more down to numbers than much else."? Why weren't they able to attract bigger numbers?
> 
> That the far left ignored or smeared them may be true but that's not really relevant - the far left isn't really relevant. The IWCA didn't really orientate towards the far left, it quite explicitly avoided questions of socialism etc and instead (rightly IMO) orientated itself towards working class communities, towards the working class itself. The question is, then, why did these ideas, this approach, not take off among the working class?
> 
> We can avoid answering the question, preferring to blame the far left for not getting involved, but to do that is to avoid getting the answers that might help in working out how such an approach _could_ be made to take off.


 
Well, there's a certain amount here which I don't think is correct. Whilst it may be true to a large extent that the IWCA didn't orientate towards the far left (certainly it didn't in, say, the way that the RCP orientated towards the SWP at times in the 80s - i.e. trying to recruit from the SWP rather than from the working class directly) it certainly had plenty to say about the left and how it had lost its way. Part of the reason for doing this was an assessment that the IWCA's ideas were more likely to have resonance with people who had some experience of the left, but also a belief that getting involved with the IWCA _at an activist level_ demanded quite a lot and was likely to be thoroughly daunting for those who had no previous experience of organising.

Certainly, for the IWCA to succeed outside the areas where there was an already existant group of members/activists, was extremely difficult - there's very few lone individuals going to have the time, the ability, wherewithal, resources to put a local newsletter together, to get it delivered, to initiate a local campaign etc. But that generally was the situation of those getting in touch - there weren't groups of 5 or 6 ready made activists joining together in a particular area - they were lone individuals who were often quite physically isolated from others who were interested in the organisation. Other factors as well, but I think it would be wrong to say that in rejecting the left/socialism, the IWCA was rejecting those who had come through that experience - quite the reverse, we did hope to pick up support from people who had had that experience and had come to similar conclusion to us.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Mar 5, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> To be honest, standing in local elections, campaigning around local issues, is good, but standing on a label of "independent" and "working class" is not much of a challenge really - compared to socialist groups standing on a principled platform as "Socialists" and trying to raise working class people's ambitions and perspectives to a joined up systemic understanding of changing SOCIETY, not just small details of their local environment.


 
Again fairly predicatably, the reverse is usually the case. Invariably, a principled socialist platform is a bit like your post, pie in the sky. It has no practical application on the ground. Which is fairly handy because by referring to your principled platform you can side step all the tricky issues that predominate in many communities; stuff like anti-social social crime, council sponsored identity politics, or crack-dealing, as well as happily screeing out all 'other small details of the local envoirnment' you claim are looking to represent. It would be like standing for shop steward and inviting your co-workers to support you based on your analysis of and support for - North Korea. And getting due electoral reward.

In addittion though it has apparently escaped your notice the overwhelmingly majority of the working population have been for some time non-union, while the organised working class at the point of production hasn't exerted any meaningful influence nationally since about 1974.

Ultimately, for the formula you espouse to work, manufacturing capitalism would need to to recover first.


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## Red Storm (Mar 5, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> Again fairly predicatably, the reverse is usually the case. Invariably, a principled socialist platform is a bit like your post, pie in the sky. It has no practical application on the ground. Which is fairly handy because by referring to your principled platform you can side step all the tricky issues that predominate in many communities; stuff like anti-social social crime, council sponsored identity politics, or crack-dealing, as well as happily screeing out all 'other small details of the local envoirnment' you claim are looking to represent. It would be like standing for shop steward and inviting your co-workers to support you based on your analysis of and support for - North Korea. And getting due electoral reward.
> 
> In addittion though it has apparently escaped your notice the overwhelmingly majority of the working population have been for some time non-union, while the organised working class at the point of production hasn't exerted any meaningful influence nationally since about 1974.
> 
> Ultimately, for the formula you espouse to work, manufacturing capitalism would need to to recover first.


 
Do you think there is an alternative to capitalism?


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 5, 2012)

past caring said:


> Well, there's a certain amount here which I don't think is correct. Whilst it may be true to a large extent that the IWCA didn't orientate towards the far left (certainly it didn't in, say, the way that the RCP orientated towards the SWP at times in the 80s - i.e. trying to recruit from the SWP rather than from the working class directly) it certainly had plenty to say about the left and how it had lost its way. Part of the reason for doing this was an assessment that the IWCA's ideas were more likely to have resonance with people who had some experience of the left, but also a belief that getting involved with the IWCA _at an activist level_ demanded quite a lot and was likely to be thoroughly daunting for those who had no previous experience of organising.
> 
> Certainly, for the IWCA to succeed outside the areas where there was an already existant group of members/activists, was extremely difficult - there's very few lone individuals going to have the time, the ability, wherewithal, resources to put a local newsletter together, to get it delivered, to initiate a local campaign etc. But that generally was the situation of those getting in touch - there weren't groups of 5 or 6 ready made activists joining together in a particular area - they were lone individuals who were often quite physically isolated from others who were interested in the organisation. Other factors as well, but I think it would be wrong to say that in rejecting the left/socialism, the IWCA was rejecting those who had come through that experience - quite the reverse, we did hope to pick up support from people who had had that experience and had come to similar conclusion to us.


 
Fair enough, but I think my main point remains - that to be successful it would need to look well beyond the usual activist left types. I think we should be addressing this question. I personally think the IWCA had the right idea and if we can figure out why it failed to grow we might be getting somewhere.

I also think, and this is intended as constructive criticism, the IWCA wasn't great at responding to people who wanted to get involved. Over a period of about a year I sent 3 or 4 requests through the website for information on how I could get involved and possibly build a group in my area, but received no response. In the end I gave up and ended up joining the SP because they were the only group I could access that was doing anything like the kind of grass roots work I wanted to be involved with. I know of at least two others who had similar experiences.

However, and I can't really say why I think this, I suspect that there's more to it than that. While I think ayatolla sometimes sounds a bit too much like socialist worker for his own (and our) good, he might have a point about the need for some form of national organisation/coordination to connect the dots between these very localised pockets of resistance and build the kind of collective consciousness around a working class identity that was, correct me if I'm wrong, one of the main aims of the IWCA (I'm doing the socialist worker bit now lol) and to build up the national profile to the extent that people who haven't been involved with left wing activism would hear about it and hopefully seek to emulate it. The question then is how do you do this while still retaining the local autonomy that was, in my view, one of the great strengths of the IWCA.

Sorry this is a bit incoherent, I guess I'm thinking out loud really, but I just don't find the "far left ignored us/refused to get involved" all that satisfactory as an answer. 1) I think it overestimates the influence of the far left and 2) even if they did, this doesn't really help us to work out how to build something more effective in the future, since in all likelihood the far left will continue to ignore such projects. We need an answer that doesn't rely on the far left IMO.


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 5, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> JHE is dead right IMO. The question should be, _why_ was "the IWCA's failure... more down to numbers than much else."? Why weren't they able to attract bigger numbers?
> The question is, then, why did these ideas, this approach, not take off among the working class?


 
There are two separate questions here: why did the IWCA not attract more activists nationally, an organisational question, which past caring has touched on, and 'why did the IWCA approach not take off among the working class' which seems to me to be different.

All importantly I think for a prototype, is the fact that where implemented, the iWCA strategy was supported by thousands of working class people. Some went further and became activists candidates and indeed Cllrs themselves. The flaw in the plan, lay in the ability to spread the message and at the same time fend off the increasingly hysterical attacks, not just from the Left but increasingly from the mainstream parties, working in tandem. 

Only if the problem had been reversed (an organisation the size of the SA/SLP/Respect but scant appeal beyond that, and a strategy with working class appeal but no real organisation) would 'failure' be an appropriate verdict.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 5, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> There are two separate questions here: why did the IWCA not attract more activists nationally, an organisational question, which past caring has touched on, and 'why did the IWCA approach not take off among the working class' which seems to me to be different.
> 
> All importantly I think for a prototype, is the fact that where implemented, the iWCA strategy was supported by thousands of working class people. Some went further and became activists candidates and indeed Cllrs themselves. The flaw in the plan, lay in the ability to spread the message and at the same time fend off the increasingly hysterical attacks, not just from the Left but increasingly from the mainstream parties, working in tandem.
> 
> Only if the problem had been reversed (an organisation the size of the SA/SLP/Respect but scant appeal beyond that, and a strategy with working class appeal but no real organisation) would 'failure' be an appropriate verdict.


 
Don't get me wrong, I agree that in comparison with pretty much any left wing initiative since the miners' strike (and possibly before) the IWCA was a massive success. Maybe failure is the wrong word, I don't know, but why didn't it spread? Do you think there's anything that could be done differently in future? Or do you think the obstacles the IWCA faced are insurmountable (they may be for all I know)?

I'm not trying to make out it was a failure, in fact it's the relative success of the IWCA that makes this such an important question IMO. I think that approach probably is the way forward (if there is one at all) but the chances are that whenever and wherever it is tried it's likely to come up against the same problems as it did the first time around. If that's not addressed the limited success of the initial IWCA project is all we can hope for (and possibly even less, as Labour &co. will be expecting it next time).


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## BlackArab (Mar 5, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Ok maybe cunt was abit harsh. But to me there is few things more irritating than bible/koran bashers getting sanctimonious on folk. Didn't mean to offend.


 
I did sorta think you meant this hence the request for clarification. Has saved me now from watching what everyone says is a shit doc.


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## Delroy Booth (Mar 5, 2012)

Right, seeing as we're talking politics, here's my 2 cents

I think Joe Reilly makes some thoughtful points regarding the left's failures to represent working class people, but the situation now is different to 5 or 10 years ago. Coming off the back of the biggest global economic crisis since the 1930's, we've now got a Tory government that is a degree of magnitude worse than Labour, that seems determined to militarize the police, ransack and privatise absolutely every public service there is, kill off what's left of the trade union movement and a host of other un-imaginable horrors. This is an issue that is starting to "predominate" in many working class communities, despite the aneamic state of the British left. Another decade or two of Tory government means certain death for the left and an absolute disaster for working class people, and I think that has to be a priority - _Get these fucking Tories out_. To do this it means campaigning on a much bigger scale than any left group outside of Labour could feasilbly manage at the moment, whether it be the IWCA or the SWP or whoever.

I think there's structural problems inherent in small parties, that are good at winning elections in maybe a few councils, like Militant or IWCA, making that leap to the next level as an big, independent political party capable of challenging government. Just as the BNP failed to transition from being a small party to a big one and make any kind of breakthrough, the left would today organizationally fall apart if public support ever got us that far. Just look how Scottish Socialist Party descended into madness and in-fighting after the tiny bit of electoral success they had, look what happened to Respect and George Galloway, that was farcical, there are doubtless even more examples that I needn't bother listing of the left fucking it up on the verge of any kind of progress.

Anti-social crime, council-sponsored identity politics, crack dealing and other issues that concern working class communities don't just spring up like an outbreak of flu, they're a product of political and economic conditions. I agree a lot with the sort of approach the IWCA seemed to take with local politics, but there is a need, right now, to make our arguments on a big scale. That's something I see as being directly in the interests of working class people.

I also think that what Joe says about the trade unions is interesting. It's true to say that the trade unions, which at one time could provide the backbone of a new kind of mass movement, peaked in recent history around the mid 70's, and suffered a major defeat in 1984. The anti trade union laws introduced since have pretty much sealed the deal, and private sector union membership is around 1 in 5 I believe. Yet there are still 6.5million trade unionists in Britain. A prolonged general strike from those members could quite possibly bring down the government, although there is no chance of that actually happening, there's is a small degree of potential for a revival of working class politics through the unions.

There's also the fact that in a post-industrial, service sector economy with a flexible labour force and structurally high unemployment, all sorts of class antagonisms and struggles are emerging beyond the traditional, manufacturing-based, ones we've seen before. These will be played out on local, national and international level, and I don't think that anything out there at the moment could link up these struggles into a single movement or party.

Incidentally, the change to a service-sector and finance type of capitalism, union membership has been destroyed. This has been the real killer for the private sector union memberships, creating a dire need for people who are un-unionised, underpaid or exploited into some workfare scheme, to get some kind of political support. I doubt whether the unions are in any shape to adapt to this kind of economy, even if the Tories weren't in power.

I still stay upbeat though, and I won't hear a counsel of doom off anyone. These are first world socialist problems. We're not being rounded up and tortued or imprisoned. We're not banned. We even have legal right to free association. At least we're not faced with the sort of absolutely insurmountable obstacles the chartists or the diggers or wat tyler had to face. There's not even a Cold War any more.


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## The39thStep (Mar 5, 2012)

So the inability of the of the left to work within working class communities to tackle the day to day issues 


> Anti-social crime, council-sponsored identity politics, crack dealing and other issues that concern working class communities


 requires the the left and the working class to think of big scale issues that it is is even more unable  to tackle?


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## Delroy Booth (Mar 5, 2012)

not really what I'm saying. I think on a local level we could succeed, the IWCA is proof of that if anything else, to have some degree of support. There's plenty of people out there in need of some kind of political representation, and if not us it'll be the fash, so obviously that should be the focus.

I'm saying that a lot of problems that manifest themselves as "local" are tied into events that transpire at a national or even international level, that things like anti-social behaviour and so on can be linked to poverty and terrible political policy-making, which takes place on a national level. There's a need to challenge on that front too, not just on the local one.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 5, 2012)

While the chartists unquestionably faced serious legal (and at times physical) obstacles that we thankfully aren't confronted with, they did have some advantages over us. A working class that, to a far greater extent, considered itself a class apart from the rest of society. A working class in which a workers immediate individual interests were clearly intertwined with that of the class as a whole. Whereas today, for many workers, their immediate individual interests can be in direct conflict with their long term interests (as I would see them) and the interests of the class as a whole. A working class whose members don't generally recognise themselves as having a collective working class identity. It's easy to overlook these cultural factors but they are of massive importance.


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## ayatollah (Mar 5, 2012)

We can carp on till doomsday about the sectarianism and incompetence and elitism of the radical Left .. "life of Brian" made flesh... BUT the key issue is whether there IS an alternative to capitalism (as Red Storm asked). I , and an awful lot of people worldwide, say "the political/social/economic system of Socialism is the ONLY viable alternative". Then it's an issue of how to organise ourselves to NOT be so incompetant, sectarian, elitist, to work together to fight the current capitalist offensive in every avenue possible, with a view to building a mass movement here, and in concert with like minded people in other countries to SUPERCEDE capitalism.

IF , alternatively, one DOESN'T believe that socialism is a viable alternative, which seems to be the IWCA position, one presumeably works WITHIN CAPITALISM to wrest reforms, gains, benefits , from the state by organising around specific issues and demands. It is here that I cannot see how a "localist" strategy, in a period of ever tightening screws on locally available resources, can win local demands of any significance, in isolation from a national struggle by the working class. Militant had a similar problem in Liverpool in the 1980's, and THEY controlled the COUNCIL - and the economic situation wasn't nearly as dire as it is now. An inability to DELIVER by all locally based reformists (AND the Far Right , in the BNP's localist tactical form for instance,too of course) at local council level is a KEY reason why locally based activist movements fail to maintain momentum. To suggest the UK no longer has a working class based in the factories, offices, and shops, is obviously nonsense - it is not very highly unionised after the restructurings of the last 25 years - but give it time -- the struggles against the robbery of all the postwar gains of the welfare state, wage and pensions cuts, will force masses of people back into solidaristic mass sruggle again. That struggle WILL be lead by Socialists, with a socialist vision, and a desire to build nationally and internationally. Like it or lump it.


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 6, 2012)

i think the IWCA had broadly the right kind of idea, but i think they needed to focus on getting the numbers and broadcasting the big ideas before they submerged themselves in community politics. too much too soon.

again, i think the problem is that the left is just not big enough for real political power - whether that's power in a general election, EU election, local council, Trade Union, neighbourhood committee or whatever..


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## The39thStep (Mar 6, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> not really what I'm saying. I think on a local level we could succeed, the IWCA is proof of that if anything else, to have some degree of support. There's plenty of people out there in need of some kind of political representation, and if not us it'll be the fash, so obviously that should be the focus.
> 
> I'm saying that a lot of problems that manifest themselves as "local" are tied into events that transpire at a national or even international level, that things like anti-social behaviour and so on can be linked to poverty and terrible political policy-making, which takes place on a national level. There's a need to challenge on that front too, not just on the local one.


 
The idea that poverty itself drives asb is crackers.The majority of asb involves those who for what ever reason have no sense of community and an inability at that point for communities to hold people to account.During the miners strike pit villages in absolute poverty experienced a fall in crime and asb simply because those communities were united and had forged a bond within those communities.Scabs were deemed anti social and were ostracised by those communities.

A national organisation could be built but from below rather than top down which then might be able to harness the local political capacity that had been built. But this takes years of hard work within local working class communities and that can't be done if 'big tent' politics   and global solutions overide  that painstaking local work.


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 6, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Do you think there is an alternative to capitalism?


 
Of course. However what the entire Left has more or less ignored for the most of the 20th century is that the models on offer; social democracy and Leninism's (including all off-shoots and mutations) were unmitigated disasters from a democratic working class perspective. Everywhere. Rather than accept that theoritically there were fundamanental flaws, what critiques there have been, have merely skittered around the edges of the debate.

Did the collapse of the Soviet Union a quarter of a century ago cause a re-think among the legion of Trots that espoused the 'workers states' position for the previous 50 years? Not that I noticed.


But now that the economic system has hit the buffers these same people seem to think that running around screaming _'SOCIALISM!' _in peoples faces (while castigating the IWCA as back-sliders) is the one word answer.

As has been mentioned before, there is a very good reason it is the far-right and not the socialist-left that is occupying the position of radical alternative across Europe.

They have done their hard thinking on how to reach their political objectives by means other than striding around in lederhosen bellowing _'Fourth Reich NOW!'_ in punters ears.


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## articul8 (Mar 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> A national organisation could be built but from below rather than top down which then might be able to harness the local political capacity that had been built. But this takes years of hard work within local working class communities and that can't be done if 'big tent' politics and global solutions overide that painstaking local work.


 
The BNP from relatively early on (Beacon etc) got a national platform for their "painstaking local work" - and the party brand developed so that even groups with little obvious connection to Griffin et al could claim to be the local BNP.  So neither wholly top-down nor totally bottom-up.  In the absence of Labour as a brand that is seen as pro w/c, what alternative is there?  And don't we need one?


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## ayatollah (Mar 6, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> Of course. However what the entire Left has more or less ignored for the most of the 20th century is that the models on offer; social democracy and Leninism's (including all off-shoots and mutations) were unmitigated disasters from a democratic working class perspective. Everywhere. Rather than accept that theoritically there were fundamanental flaws, what critiques there have been, have merely skittered around the edges of the debate.
> 
> Did the collapse of the Soviet Union a quarter of a century ago cause a re-think among the legion of Trots that espoused the 'workers states' position for the previous 50 years? Not that I noticed.
> 
> ...


 
Err, I don't believe you have actually answered Red Storm's question, "Joe"... (ie, "Do you think there is an alternative to capitalism ?" ) or even attempted to do so. Just for the umteenth time slagging off the Left, and Socialism as a political philosophy and movement, and insisting that "Socialism" HAS to equal Laborite bourgeois social democracy OR Stalinism (which YOU always want to call "Leninism" - which is a VERY standard right wing simplification by the way). BUT what is YOUR vision of an alternative to the capitalist crisis ? The only suggestions on the IWCA website is a hotch potch of stuff , ALL firmly situated WITHIN CONTINUING CAPITALIST PROPERTY RELATIONS, with Mondragon type co-ops as an example. (the same Mondragon Co-ops now laying off workers and shifting production to the Far East by the way !).

Be honest "Joe" you have NO transformational alternative to capitalism - just a (failed) strategy to work at grass roots level in local working class communities. Now I think this needs to be a core part of the Left's work too - but a part of a much broader, socialist, agenda.

And YET AGAIN you seem in awe of the current success of the Far Right in parts of Europe. But what is their "product OFFER" to their supporters ?, divisive petty nationalism, and riding on and deepening, the hostility of white Europeans to the non-white minorities in their midst, as the social crisis deepens community antagonisms. Well, that IS what fascists have always done... it's always been a high selling "product offer" for them... but so what.. what GENUINE way forward does this offer the working classes of Europe against the bosses' austerity offensive ? Absolutely NONE, "Joe". So why offer us this "Grass Roots" work stirring up of bigotry and division by the Far Right as if it provides any sort of "model for action" by the Left ?

Being deeply hostile to a very crudely caricatured idea of socialism, and locked in awed admiration of the political gains of the Far Right, ISN't in itself an alternative political strategy , "Joe", its a recipe for personal passivity, or going off in some very peculiar political directions indeed . I would rather say "well done" to the socialists/ trades unionists who got hundreds of thousands of workers out on strike in November against pensions cuts, have been campaigning against "workfare" with some success, and are working all over Britain TODAY to build the fightback - NOT just screaming "SOCIALISM" in some crazed, unconstructive way into the bewildered face of the working class, as you choose to parody... as yet another of your "straw men" caricatures of socialism and socialist militants.


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## Delroy Booth (Mar 6, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> Of course. However what the entire Left has more or less ignored for the most of the 20th century is that the models on offer; social democracy and Leninism's (including all off-shoots and mutations) were unmitigated disasters from a democratic working class perspective. Everywhere. Rather than accept that theoritically there were fundamanental flaws, what critiques there have been, have merely skittered around the edges of the debate.
> 
> Did the collapse of the Soviet Union a quarter of a century ago cause a re-think among the legion of Trots that espoused the 'workers states' position for the previous 50 years? Not that I noticed.
> 
> ...


 
In that case, if the two dominant models of socialist thinking in Europe over the last 100 years, Leninism and Social Democracy, can be written off as failures for the working class, what do you propose can fill the vacuum they will leave? A class-based movement or party, that is not just a repeat of Stalinism, Leninism or crude Marxism, whilst also being democratic, without being Social Democracy or sell-out liberalism. It means a fundamental re-evaluation of every ideological certainty that the far-left swore by, and they just haven't been willing to make that sort of commitment. There's no way any trotskyite party is prepared to do that now, not after so long.

Incidentally I don't think you can call Social Democracy as an _unmitigated disaster_ although it did ultimately fail and sold out to neo-liberalism, in the same way Leninism was a disaster. Right now, we're engaged in a defensive struggle, trying to cling onto what's left of the welfare-state, but that doesn't mean that we're all suddenly social democratcs. That's just looking at the situation and seeing what the threats are and basing activism around that. In the long term, new idea's are going to have to come in to address the problems we're faced with.


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## Nigel (Mar 6, 2012)

Know this is going a bit off topic.
In fi dels Oxford(shire) on their facebook page appear to be making links and aiding Br1t!sh Fr e e dom P@rty and possibly N F. Appaentely there used to be a branch of B N P in Abingdon; Could the establishment of a chapter of In fi dels have anything to do with divisions within  B n p?
E D L in Oxford are quite wishy washy and ineffectual. Have there been similar developments in other parts of the country.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Southeast-infidels-oxford/184854781622387


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 6, 2012)

I fail to see how social democracy was an "unmitigated disaster" for the working class.

Do the establishment of a welfare state, universal education and NHS constitute some form of mitigation?


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 7, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I fail to see how social democracy was an "unmitigated disaster" for the working class.
> 
> Do the establishment of a welfare state, universal education and NHS constitute some form of mitigation?


 
Does the dis-establishment of a welfare state, the privitisation of the NHS, and an education system that leaves a large proportion of working class pupils semi-numerate and semi-literate not constitute some form of blame?


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## chilango (Mar 7, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> Does the dis-establishment of a welfare state, the privitisation of the NHS, and an education system that leaves a large proportion of working class pupils semi-numerate and semi-literate not constitute some form of blame?


 
I dunno if you can blame social democracy - directly - for these. Indirectly - for failing to provide any opposition to it perhaps.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 7, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> Does the dis-establishment of a welfare state, the privitisation of the NHS, and an education system that leaves a large proportion of working class pupils semi-numerate and semi-literate not constitute some form of blame?


 
Did social democracy do that? I think you have confused social democracy with neoliberalism just like the Labour Party have. Not that they actually did disestablish and privatise those things, they just started the process. Last time I looked nearly 3 million people were claiming some sort of out of work benefit for example. And my mum is having a hip replacement on Friday, every employee paid for and organised on behalf of the state. Things are bad enough as they are without people having to exagerate


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 7, 2012)

The point is that the gains made by the working class in the social democratic period were, and could only be, temporary.


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## Louis MacNeice (Mar 7, 2012)

Social democracy is to blame for its inability to either defend the gains made by the working class as part of the post war settlement, or to enable the working class to defend and expand on those gains itself. This inability is in part down to a lack of aspiration; social democracy didn't often enough dream of an empowered working class able to move us beyond social democracy. It is more importantly down to the failure of the material conditions - e.g. 'full employment', sustained economic growth, the existence of the Soviet Union, mass trade union membership, large communist parties etc. - which it succeeded in and contributed to. I say this as someone has benefitted greatly due to the post war settlement; it helped to house, employ, care for and educate my family in ways that have transformed our lives for the better.

Marxism-leninism (which includes all of its stalinist, trotskyist, gonzalo thought or whatever sub-groups, however much they might squeal and point the finger at each other) is obviously to blame as it ultimately disempowers the working class in favour of the party. I will not go into unpacking the material conditions which helped produce an initially successful but all too soon repressive marxism-leninism; I will just say that as someone involved in early discussion of the IWCA from an explicitly marxist-leninist perspective, I wished it wasn't so. But wishing is not sufficient to the tasks in hand.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 7, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Did social democracy do that? I think you have confused social democracy with neoliberalism just like the Labour Party have. Not that they actually did disestablish and privatise those things, they just started the process.


 
And would no doubt have happily completed the process was it not for the pesky interruption of the ungrateful electorate.


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 7, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> In that case, if the two dominant models of socialist thinking in Europe over the last 100 years, Leninism and Social Democracy, can be written off as failures for the working class, what do you propose can fill the vacuum they will leave? A class-based movement or party, that is not just a repeat of Stalinism, Leninism or crude Marxism, whilst also being democratic, without being Social Democracy or sell-out liberalism. It means a fundamental re-evaluation of every ideological certainty that the far-left swore by, and they just haven't been willing to make that sort of commitment. There's no way any trotskyite party is prepared to do that now, not after so long.


 
You seem to assume that the void will inevitably be filled by a progressive alternative - but that is not proving the case at present. In terms of ideology as someone once said, once you commit: 'You don't own it, it owns you'.

So either you disable the aforementioned ideology in order to allow you to compete for working class hearts and minds with the other lot - or - you simply don't compete. Which is where we are all at presently. Standing on the sidelines. Thumb twindling.


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## AKA pseudonym (Mar 7, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Anon have taken the .org site down, so i hear.


and still down.. a simple dos...


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## Delroy Booth (Mar 7, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> You seem to assume that the void will inevitably be filled by a progressive alternative - but that is not proving the case at present. In terms of ideology as someone once said, once you commit: 'You don't own it, it owns you'.
> 
> So either you disable the aforementioned ideology in order to allow you to compete for working class hearts and minds with the other lot - or - you simply don't compete. Which is where we are all at presently. Standing on the sidelines. Thumb twindling.


 
No Joe I really don't see the political vacuum left being filled by a progressive alternative at all, that's an assumption your making on my behalf. At this point in time radical far-right stands in a better position than the left at filling the ideological gap that exists for representing working class people. I also think the rise in hippie-la-la shit, 9/11 conspiracy theory shit, Zeitgeist, Freemen of the Land and a host of other crank-ish internet-assemblied philosophies are also stepping into this ideological vacuum, albeit moreso amongst the middle-class then the working-class.

Now seeing as you have some experience with these kind of problems in a practical way I'm just asking, sincerely, what progressive alternative do you think we should put forward in the future? Do you advocate just giving up on left-wing politics altogther? Because like I said, either we put forward an alternative for working-class people or the far-right will, and I believe that would be an absolute disaster for working class people.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 7, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> And would no doubt have happily completed the process was it not for the pesky interruption of the ungrateful electorate.


 
er...at first reading the "ungrateful" electorate seem to have wanted more dismantling at a quicker pace if anything.


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 8, 2012)

Nigel said:


> Know this is going a bit off topic.
> In fi dels Oxford(shire) on their facebook page appear to be making links and aiding Br1t!sh Fr e e dom P@rty and possibly N F. Appaentely there used to be a branch of B N P in Abingdon; Could the establishment of a chapter of In fi dels have anything to do with divisions within B n p?
> E D L in Oxford are quite wishy washy and ineffectual. Have there been similar developments in other parts of the country.
> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Southeast-infidels-oxford/184854781622387


 
in the NW the infidel groupings have had recent successes mobilising other rightwing groups like CxF and orange order lot... not entirely incompetently either.


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## bignose1 (Mar 8, 2012)

Do you like my Maos mat


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 8, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I'm just asking, sincerely, what progressive alternative do you think we should put forward in the future?


 
#Occupy


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 8, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> er...at first reading the "ungrateful" electorate seem to have wanted more dismantling at a quicker pace if anything.


 
if that's what they actually wanted would the Tories not have got a thumping majority?


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 8, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Now seeing as you have some experience with these kind of problems in a practical way I'm just asking, sincerely, what progressive alternative do you think we should put forward in the future? Do you advocate just giving up on left-wing politics altogther? Because like I said, either we put forward an alternative for working-class people or the far-right will, and I believe that would be an absolute disaster for working class people.


 
Briefly the first thing that is necessary to come to terms with is that politically social democracy has merely been stringing the working class along out of the threat out of good example coming from the left. As soon as that threat begins to deminish it's immediately tacks to the right.

That of course raises the question as to why there is no longer a fear being out-flanked? 

What is boils down is that marxist-leninism over the previous century made too many fundamental theoritical errors, that led to strategic and tactical disasters to remain credible in working class eyes.

In many ways it became the very opposite -top down, anti-democratic, dictatorial - of what communism (small c) was meant to be about.

Inside the the eastern bloc freedom of all kinds was crushed while the Left essentially became apologists in one way of the other for the gap between fantasy communism and the sordid reality. 

The key therefore means restoring that essential trust. It is not so much a case of 'putting forward and alternative' as providing one in the here an now on the ground. Dealing with the needs of the working class as is. In essence it means starting from scratch. No short cuts.


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## ayatollah (Mar 8, 2012)

Joe Reilly quote:
"The key therefore means restoring that essential trust. It is not so much a case of 'putting forward and alternative' as providing one in the here an now on the ground. Dealing with the needs of the working class as is. In essence it means starting from scratch. No short cuts. "

What ON EARTH does this mean "Joe ?  At present the working class of Britain, Europe, the WORLD , are being crushed into poverty by the needs of capitalism to temporarily "solve" its crisis of profitability by destroying all the gains of the post war period. At local level this means the collapse of local services from local government, the NHS, and the collapse of local job markets too - with all this means for young people , crime and anti social behaviour generally. The room for winning concessions from the bosses at local level through localised action alone is almost non-existent. The forum of struggle is national and international, and any progessive social movement wishing to  combat the cuts AND stave off the siren call of racism and nationalism from the Far Right has to offer a comprehensive alternative vision to the working class -- NOT some variant of Stalinism, or reformist social democracy, or some posture of "localist working class action without a theoretical or action oriented framework", but radical DEMOCRATIC socialism. It's the ONLY , non-capitalist, non fascist game in town. The days of working in isolation,locally, within the ever reducing budgets  available under capitalism for social services are over.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 8, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> Joe Reilly quote:
> "The key therefore means restoring that essential trust. It is not so much a case of 'putting forward and alternative' as providing one in the here an now on the ground. Dealing with the needs of the working class as is. In essence it means starting from scratch. No short cuts. "
> 
> What ON EARTH does this mean "Joe ? At present the working class of Britain, Europe, the WORLD , are being crushed into poverty by the needs of capitalism to temporarily "solve" its crisis of profitability by destroying all the gains of the post war period. At local level this means the collapse of local services from local government, the NHS, and the collapse of local job markets too - with all this means for young people , crime and anti social behaviour generally. The room for winning concessions from the bosses at local level through localised action alone is almost non-existent. The forum of struggle is national and international, and any progessive social movement wishing to combat the cuts AND stave off the siren call of racism and nationalism from the Far Right has to offer a comprehensive alternative vision to the working class -- NOT some variant of Stalinism, or reformist social democracy, or some posture of "localist working class action without a theoretical or action oriented framework", but radical DEMOCRATIC socialism. It's the ONLY , non-capitalist, non fascist game in town. The days of working in isolation,locally, within the ever reducing budgets available under capitalism for social services are over.


 
The point is, though, that it's pointless talking about this when the working class just doesn't trust us and also in most cases doesn't even identify itself as working class.

Nobody is arguing that the far right has any real answers, what people are saying is that the far right is doing something the left should be doing but isn't - winning support and trust in working class areas. It doesn't matter how much better our ideas are than theirs if nobody listens to us, does it?

Once you've got a class base, once you've actually earned some trust and made gains locally, you can then begin the debate about what the alternative might look like - the big picture - but most importantly this debate needs to be a debate within the working class, not a debate among lefty politicos who then go and try and impose or preach whatever programme it is they decide on.

And you're vastly underestimating the gains that can be made by people who organise effectively locally. It's not all about getting money from government after all.


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## Red Storm (Mar 8, 2012)

The far right are getting it right. Knocking on doors and doing all the dog work. I take my hat off to some of the BNP organisers, they do (annoyingly) work damn hard. 

What's even more annoying is that the left with its full timers isn't out there doing community stuff. I suppose the do do a lot of trade union work though. 

Like I said, what you're saying Ayatollah, I believe, is right. However you're a head of yourself (or perhaps 25 years behind). We need to get their trust, get them to associate themselves as working class and associate that with the labour movement and the left. Then we introduce the theoretical stuff.


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## past caring (Mar 8, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Then we introduce the theoretical stuff.


 
But this is as much part of the problem (and the hangover/dead weight of Leninism) - that the left, the politicos already have the answers and need to educate/convince the working class (incapable of anything more than trade union consciousness) from without. The theory, the answers _have to come from the working class itself_.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 8, 2012)

past caring said:


> But this is as much part of the problem (and the hangover/dead weight of Leninism) - that the left, the politicos already have the answers and need to educate/convince the working class (incapable of anything more than trade union consciousness) from without. The theory, the answers _have to come from the working class itself_.


 
Indeed what Red Storm should be saying is ..."and then the theory comes".


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## Red Storm (Mar 8, 2012)

past caring said:


> But this is as much part of the problem (and the hangover/dead weight of Leninism) - that the left, the politicos already have the answers and need to educate/convince the working class (incapable of anything more than trade union consciousness) from without. The theory, the answers _have to come from the working class itself_.


 
This is where I part from IWCA thinking. I don't think Marxism is a dead weight. I think the far left preaching it are dead weight


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## emanymton (Mar 8, 2012)

past caring said:


> But this is as much part of the problem (and the hangover/dead weight of Leninism) - that the left, the politicos already have the answers and need to educate/convince the working class (incapable of anything more than trade union consciousness) from without. The theory, the answers _have to come from the working class itself_.


First of all does anyone actually believe this only capable of trade union consciousness rubbbish?

The problem I have with this is that the working class is not homogeneous I am working class so are some members of the EDL, which of us do you ask for the answers? Frankly as far as I am concerned most of the rest of the working class is wrong on most political questions most of the time. I struggle to see how your theory (and it is a theory just as much as the Leninism of the SWP is a theory) works in practice. Or maybe more accurately how this automatically moves people in a progressive direction. If you mean you find the bits you can agree on and fight there, then that is just the same as a Leninist would argue.


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## The39thStep (Mar 8, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> This is where I part from IWCA thinking. I don't think Marxism is a dead weight. I think the far left preaching it are dead weight


 
Marxism and Leninism aren't the same mate. Shame on you.


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## Red Storm (Mar 8, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Marxism and Leninism aren't the same mate. Shame on you.


 
I don't think Leninism is a particular dead weight either.


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## The39thStep (Mar 8, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I don't think Leninism is a particular dead weight either.


 
That is where we would _definitely_ part company kid.


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## Casually Red (Mar 8, 2012)

might i suggest that many working class people are more than a bit put off "the left" by all this wrangling over theories and dead saints of one stripe or another, which although a regular - and often crucial-  obsession of many on the far left isnt remotely a concern among the vast majority of working class people. And that in general the far right are much less hamstrung with theoretical schism and  have a much easier time being identified with working class concerns than the left as they are often more identifiable as working class themselves.


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 9, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I don't think Leninism is a particular dead weight either.


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 9, 2012)

i think there needs to be a clear distinction between theory and 'line' here... so far as i've always understood it, the general "leninist" insistence on having a theoretical line, as well as a practical line, is a gross abuse of any democratic ideas. i don't think that understandings of 'leninist' organisational structures should be understood in such a context, but i also accept that those tendencies were introduced under Lenin's leadership.

at the end of the day, tbh, i don't feel a great need to defend 'leninism' as in its present sense its dead anyway, but talking about historically accurate categories you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. he was a really clever guy and a lot of what he wrote is still useful. the idea of organisational discipline, for example, doesn't run counter to democracy in its essence - and highly disciplined and sometimes hierarchical modes of organisation can also be effective without being undemocratic. all that could be claimed under the mantle of leninism.

it's where the organisation demands that same discipline over your actual ideas, starts talking in terms of different people being 'good' or 'bad' on certain issues, and marginalising, isolating and excluding members who prompt debates over theoretical holy cows, that things go badly wrong.

but all that said i also don't think what's called for now is any kind of highly disciplined hierarchical organisation. it will take something broad and de-centralised, in the current situation, to spread and diffuse even the most basic class ideas amongst the general population. as i've said throughout this thread i think that the task the 'left' should see itself engaging in currently needs, just through sheer logistics, to be seen as a cultural intervention rather than a political bid for influence on power dynamics.

and tying this all back into the start of this post, there's no valid distinction between pushing the social and cultural ideas of working-class power and 'theory'. the theory needs to be a central part of anybody's anti-capitalist, pro-working class education - otherwise everyone will quickly lose sight of what the hell it is we're trying to achieve.


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## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> it's where the organisation demands that same discipline over your actual ideas, starts talking in terms of different people being 'good' or 'bad' on certain issues, and marginalising, isolating and excluding members who prompt debates over theoretical holy cows, that things go badly wrong.


 
And place that approach (one that happens time after time after time internally) in a broader social setting where the power of being 'right' is exercised against the class as a whole and you can see why leninism (as such) has never gained a substantive footing in the working class. People simply won't have it. This isn't a question about how a party should organises itself or how it relates to its individual members but of how you see the class organising itself. If you see it on the basis that red storm seems to ('Then we introduce the theoretical stuff.' - quite shocking to read it its nakedness in 2012) then you will face this problem from the second the starter fires his/her pistol.

(General point piggybacked on the back of your post).


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## articul8 (Mar 9, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> the IWCA was a massive success.


 
This thread is enlightening - people who judge the IWCA in relative terms "a massive success" and social democracy/Leninism an "unmitigated failure" have some seriously fucked up spectacles on.


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## Red Storm (Mar 9, 2012)

When I said I don't think Leninism is a particularly dead weight. I meant that everything that was said, written and done isn't something that should be burnt and forgot about; there are things to learn and take from Lenin. The term Leninism seems to be being used to cut off Marxism from Lenin and Trotsky and I think this is a mistake. 

Introducing theory once you've been able to connect with a working class community and there is a good group is important. Theory such as why revolution is necessary etc. But I do think to have a long term working class movement with a revolutionary aim that the theory is necessary. Perhaps some don't want a revolutionary organisation which is another point entirely. 



articul8 said:


> This thread is enlightening - people who judge the IWCA in relative terms "a massive success" and social democracy/Leninism an "unmitigated failure" have some seriously fucked up spectacles on.



It's all about context. The IWCA as a project had successes which I think should be learnt from but we also have to learn why has dwindled. Social democracy has certainly had enormous successes but it has had its failures. I'd consider its biggest failure to be World War One but, obviously, since then it has achieved massive material benefit for working class people and also had huge failures. Likewise Leninism achieved one of the biggest victories for the international working class in the Russian Revolution, not only materially but also to lift the self esteem of the proletariat. Needless to say, it has also failed. 

I don't think Lenin and Trotsky are people to be embarrassed about but we should learn from their practical and theoretical successes and failures.


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## bignose1 (Mar 9, 2012)

Met up with a great bunch of Athelic Bilbao before the game...anti fascist ultras... Im over for the 2nd leg where I fear another tanking. On the Saturday following Im watching Rayo Valecano v Betis... guest of some anti facsists in Madrid. Will be visiting the sites around Jarama and other SCW memorials.
ps Im glad the stewards in the away end were ok last night...last thing you wanted was keeping all the basques in the same exit.


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 9, 2012)

... where's the pun...


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## bignose1 (Mar 9, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> ... where's the pun...


 Are you serious DU?


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## emanymton (Mar 9, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Introducing theory once you've been able to connect with a working class community and there is a good group is important. Theory such as why revolution is necessary etc. But I do think to have a long term working class movement with a revolutionary aim that the theory is necessary. Perhaps some don't want a revolutionary organisation which is another point entirely.


 
I think this is important, most people do not spontaneously reach the conclusion that the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism is necessary (I didn't) it is something that has to be argued for within the working class. This is not about bring external ideas into the working class but about arguing for ideas within the working class. But you can't do that if you reject theory. the reality of the day to day class struggle is that it is fought within the working class, worker against worker.  The whole point of a picket line is to prevent other workers from crossing, it doesn't matter if the boss goes in or not.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 9, 2012)

articul8 said:


> This thread is enlightening - people who judge the IWCA in relative terms "a massive success" and social democracy/Leninism an "unmitigated failure" have some seriously fucked up spectacles on.


 
Errr... you're decontextualising the statements though aren't you? In comparison to anything else the far left has done in the last 30 years, the IWCA was a massive success. I'm not comparing it with social democracy or Leninism. Well, I sort of am to Leninism, in that the far left parties that identify as Leninist haven't managed anything like that since Militant in Liverpool, but you're quoting it as if I'm saying it's a massive success compared to the Bolsheviks, which would be a bit mental and I'm not actually of the opinion that Leninism and social democracy were unmitigated failures either.

Talking about fucked up spectacles, how's the futile project to "reclaim the labour party" going?


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## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2012)

emanymton said:


> I think this is important, most people do not spontaneously reach the conclusion that the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism is necessary (I didn't) it is something that has to be argued for within the working class. This is not about bring external ideas into the working class but about arguing for ideas within the working class. But you can't do that if you reject theory. the reality of the day to day class struggle is that it is fought within the working class, worker against worker. The whole point of a picket line is to prevent other workers from crossing, it doesn't matter if the boss goes in or not.


 
Who the fuck is rejecting theory? What's being rejected is a ridiculous understanding of _how_ 'theory' is produced and by _who_. What's being rejected is the crude circular understanding that theory is something that you have as result of simply joining the party and that the party has simply by being the party (ignoring the many many parties existing at any one time) - and that this is correct theory, all that needs to follow is this pre-worked out theory being patiently explained to the class.

This approach rejects an understanding of theory as coming from peoples reflections on their own individual and collective experiences and self-determined needs in favour of saying, _don't bother, we've already worked it all out for you._ In effect _we the party do theory, you don't - your only role in theory is to agree_. To hear this in 2012 is truly pathetic.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 9, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> i think there needs to be a clear distinction between theory and 'line' here... so far as i've always understood it, the general "leninist" insistence on having a theoretical line, as well as a practical line, is a gross abuse of any democratic ideas. i don't think that understandings of 'leninist' organisational structures should be understood in such a context, but i also accept that those tendencies were introduced under Lenin's leadership.
> 
> at the end of the day, tbh, i don't feel a great need to defend 'leninism' as in its present sense its dead anyway, but talking about historically accurate categories you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. he was a really clever guy and a lot of what he wrote is still useful. the idea of organisational discipline, for example, doesn't run counter to democracy in its essence - and highly disciplined and sometimes hierarchical modes of organisation can also be effective without being undemocratic. all that could be claimed under the mantle of leninism.
> 
> ...


 
Excellent post.


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## articul8 (Mar 9, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Errr... you're decontextualising the statements though aren't you? In comparison to anything else the far left has done in the last 30 years, the IWCA was a massive success.


poll tax campaign? 



> I'm not comparing it with social democracy or Leninism. Well, I sort of am to Leninism, in that the far left parties that identify as Leninist haven't managed anything like that since Militant in Liverpool, but you're quoting it as if I'm saying it's a massive success compared to the Bolsheviks, which would be a bit mental and I'm not actually of the opinion that Leninism and social democracy were unmitigated failures either.


 
Ok fair enough.



> Talking about fucked up spectacles, how's the futile project to "reclaim the labour party" going?


I don't really imagine this will happen, at least in full.  But I think it's entirely possible to build the left within the party and have some kind of forces to work with in the event of a political realignment (eg. if there's a Blairite/Orange Book coalition formed at some point in the future).


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 9, 2012)

articul8 said:


> poll tax campaign?


 
I guess you could argue that, but I think that would probably have happened without the intervention of the far left; it certainly didn't depend on it and the fact that the far left was massively outnumbered by non-ideological workers meant that it functioned more democratically and wasn't really constrained by the usual dogmas.




articul8 said:


> I don't really imagine this will happen, at least in full. But I think it's entirely possible to build the left within the party and have some kind of forces to work with in the event of a political realignment (eg. if there's a Blairite/Orange Book coalition formed at some point in the future).


 
Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself?


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 9, 2012)

past caring said:


> But this is as much part of the problem (and the hangover/dead weight of Leninism) - that the left, the politicos already have the answers and need to educate/convince the working class (incapable of anything more than trade union consciousness) from without. The theory, the answers _have to come from the working class itself_.


 
In hindsight it might have been prudent to add _'in struggle'_ to your final sentence in order to avoid unnecessary twaddle?


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## Joe Reilly (Mar 9, 2012)

articul8 said:


> This thread is enlightening - people who judge the IWCA in relative terms "a massive success" and social democracy/Leninism an "unmitigated failure" have some seriously fucked up spectacles on.


 
I would say that most people involved in implementing the IWCA pilot schemes see them not so much in terms of this or that a campaign but more as a route map directly into working class communities.

The election, and near election of Cllrs merely proof of it effectiveness in capturing the imagination of the working class in the areas in which it operated. 

Inevitably mistakes were made, and as a model it can be improved on, but it's my guess that the people that disparage the IWCA initiative the most -the serious sneerers - have probably little or no political regard for the people the IWCA set out to reach either.


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## articul8 (Mar 9, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> Inevitably mistakes were made, and as a model it can be improved on


But you keep discussion of this inside the tent?  Or is there an open discussion of this, and how a better model might be implemented?


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## krink (Mar 9, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Are you serious DU?


tbf to DU it is quite subtle compared to your usual punnery!


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## ayatollah (Mar 9, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> The far right are getting it right. Knocking on doors and doing all the dog work. I take my hat off to some of the BNP organisers, they do (annoyingly) work damn hard.
> 
> What's even more annoying is that the left with its full timers isn't out there doing community stuff. I suppose the do do a lot of trade union work though.
> 
> Like I said, what you're saying Ayatollah, I believe, is right. However you're a head of yourself (or perhaps 25 years behind). We need to get their trust, get them to associate themselves as working class and associate that with the labour movement and the left. Then we introduce the theoretical stuff.


 
The "hard work" undoubtedly done by the Far Right in communities is aimed at WHAT though ? Fighting the cuts in local nursery provision ? Building support for campaigns against the closure of a local emergency ward/hospital ? Campaigning to stop the closure of a local youth centre ? Well I can accept that now and again the Far Right ARE adroit enough to get involved in campaigns like this - but not often. The "task" and aim of the Far Right is predominently to go round stirring up community divisions, Black against White, locals against Polish inworkers, taking advantage of the crimes of a handful (eg Asian Rochdale child abusers) to stigmatize entire ethnic communities, spreading lies about "immigrants and council house allocations, etc, etc. In other words their "activism is overwhelmingly shit stirring - and feeds on and builds up existing prejudices. In that sense it is so much EASIER than the task set for the Left, in trying to actually fight against things like local Nursery provision cuts, and to actually SUCCEED now and again during a period of recession and attacks on every aspect of the social infrastructure.

Certainly the LEFT needs to be involved in these important local campaigns - much more than they do now, but fighting the ever increasing "austerity" attacks of the "System" has to be done in the context of an understanding as to what "capitalism" IS, and WHY it is currently in crisis .... and WHY IT ISN'T the "fault" either of the white working class OR any minority ethic group. The theoretical understanding can't be separated from the motivation and tactics of the struggle. "spontaneous" struggle on its own can lead groups of activists into all sorts of reactionery blind alleys. The "working class" is a very disparate social grouping, thoroughly indoctrinated over HUNDREDS of years by the capitalist class with all sorts of reactionery ideas. Apparent "spontaneity" in a lot of working class thinking and perception is of course actually a whole raft of carefully inculcated capitalist ideology, from Monarchism to Racism etc, etc. It is this inculcated poison that the Far Right can feed off effortlessly. So activists wanting to work in working class communities with an agenda that will lead towards progress rather than reaction have to carry SOCIALIST ideas with them, as part and parcel of their work, not spring socialist ideas out of a bag, once they have "built up credibility" through generalised local campaigning. "hiding ones (political) light under a bushel" always leads inevitably to opportunism, and to groups who refuse to accept the need for a joined up political philosophy taking the "path of least resistance " -- to reaction.

I


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## Red Storm (Mar 9, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> The "hard work" undoubtedly done by the Far Right in communities is aimed at WHAT though ? Fighting the cuts in local nursery provision ? Building support for campaigns against the closure of a local emergency ward/hospital ? Campaigning to stop the closure of a local youth centre ? Well I can accept that now and again the Far Right ARE adroit enough to get involved in campaigns like this - but not often. The "task" and aim of the Far Right is predominently to go round stirring up community divisions, Black against White, locals against Polish inworkers, taking advantage of the crimes of a handful (eg Asian Rochdale child abusers) to stigmatize entire ethnic communities, spreading lies about "immigrants and council house allocations, etc, etc. In other words their "activism is overwhelmingly shit stirring - and feeds on and builds up existing prejudices. In that sense it is so much EASIER than the task set for the Left, in trying to actually fight against things like local Nursery provision cuts, and to actually SUCCEED now and again during a period of recession and attacks on every aspect of the social infrastructure.
> 
> Certainly the LEFT needs to be involved in these important local campaigns - much more than they do now, but fighting the ever increasing "austerity" attacks of the "System" has to be done in the context of an understanding as to what "capitalism" IS, and WHY it is currently in crisis .... and WHY IT ISN'T the "fault" either of the white working class OR any minority ethic group. The theoretical understanding can't be separated from the motivation and tactics of the struggle. "spontaneous" struggle on its own can lead groups of activists into all sorts of reactionery blind alleys. The "working class" is a very disparate social grouping, thoroughly indoctrinated over HUNDREDS of years by the capitalist class with all sorts of reactionery ideas. Apparent "spontaneity" in a lot of working class thinking and perception is of course actually a whole raft of carefully inculcated capitalist ideology, from Monarchism to Racism etc, etc. It is this inculcated poison that the Far Right can feed off effortlessly. So activists wanting to work in working class communities with an agenda that will lead towards progress rather than reaction have to carry SOCIALIST ideas with them, as part and parcel of their work, not spring socialist ideas out of a bag, once they have "built up credibility" through generalised local campaigning. "hiding ones (political) light under a bushel" always leads inevitably to opportunism, and to groups who refuse to accept the need for a joined up political philosophy taking the "path of least resistance " -- to reaction.


 

I see what you are saying. However this is what the far left is doing now and it isn't achieving much. I don't think the politics should be hidden as, initially, I think they should be openly working class politics focusing on material gain for working class people in a community or work place where the point that unemployment isn't down to immigration and cuts aren't being implemented because "Britain is skint". However, I maintain that abstract notions shouldn't be bombarded upon working class people when you are first getting boots on the ground and building up a good relationship. What will people think of you if you reel quotes from Marx; they'll think you're a crank.


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## emanymton (Mar 9, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Who the fuck is rejecting theory? What's being rejected is a ridiculous understanding of _how_ 'theory' is produced and by _who_. What's being rejected is the crude circular understanding that theory is something that you have as result of simply joining the party and that the party has simply by being the party (ignoring the many many parties existing at any one time) - and that this is correct theory, all that needs to follow is this pre-worked out theory being patiently explained to the class.


Yes,but who actually subscribes to this theory, I challenge you to show be in writing someone seriously arguing for this. Some dickheads might act like this but tha's a different issue.


butchersapron said:


> This approach rejects an understanding of theory as coming from peoples reflections on their own individual and collective experiences and self-determined needs in favor of saying, _don't bother, we've already worked it all out for you._ In effect _we the party do theory, you don't - your only role in theory is to agree_. To hear this in 2012 is truly pathetic.


Come on Butchers, you believe in overthrowing the capitalist system, you oppose racism, you fight sexism. I am sure you have done more for these causes in you life than I have in mine. You argue for these things within the working class don't you? You believe you are right and others are wrong on a huge number of issue and you argue for what you believe is right. You are in effect telling other working class people who disagree with you that you are right and they are wrong, that you have it all worked out and there is nothing wrong with this. Of course some on the left are crap at doing this (I'm pretty shit at it to be frank, but I think releasing this is very important, too many don't) but that again is a different issue. On this very thread you have argued for you position with other working class activists. 

Yes things can still be learnt from the collective experience of the working class in struggle, especially when it comes to strategy and tactics. but even here I am sure you would argue you corner on a range of issues. 

What really sticks on my gut about this who argument is that it seems to separate left wingers from the working class as if they where two separate groups with no overlap. I identify myself as a socialist (but not a Leninist, I did once but no more) and I'm working class. I have as much right to speak and be heard as any other member of the working class, but no more that any other, I don't just have a right to argue my corner but a responsibility to do so. I don't believe you really disagree with this.

I honestly don't get what you saying here, either you go to the working class and just do whatever they want (how you decided which bit I don't know), or you have to be prepared to stand your ground and argue for you beliefs when it is appropriate to do so. If it's the latter then I don't see how that differs from the existing left other than you saying it's different. You might want to argue you can do it better and that in general the culture of the left makes it bad at doing this in practice, but you can't really argue you are doing something different.


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## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2012)

emanymton said:


> Yes,but who actually subscribes to this theory, I challenge you to show be in writing someone seriously arguing for this. Some dickheads might act like this but tha's a different issue.


 
This is the historical experience of leninism, it's the historical self-understanding of leninism - without it it is not leninism. If you don't believe that your party is in advance of the workers, that it has to reach the backward workers though the most advanced layers of the workers and that task has been consecrated to you by the virtue of being in a leninist party then you're not a leninist. You may still have the cultural resiudes of believing that everyone else is relatively backwards by comparison though. (And that's without going into the problems of scale models of i'm a 98% class conscious worker - what are you?)



> Come on Butchers, you believe in overthrowing the capitalist system, you oppose racism, you fight sexism. I am sure you have done more for these causes in you life than I have in mine. You argue for these things within the working class don't you? You believe you are right and others are wrong on a huge number of issue and you argue for what you believe is right. You are in effect telling other working class people who disagree with you that you are right and they are wrong, that you have it all worked out and there is nothing wrong with this. Of course some on the left are crap at doing this (I'm pretty shit at it to be frank, but I think releasing this is very important, too many don't) but that again is a different issue. On this very thread you have argued for you position with other working class activists.


 
Damn right i do, but i don't seek to place that on the basis of me being cosmically advanced via self-selecting membership of a party.



> Yes things can still be learnt from the collective experience of the working class in struggle, especially when it comes to strategy and tactics. but even here I am sure you would argue you corner on a range of issues.


 
Nice of you to concede that rather than this being pretty much the whole point that it's possible it might teach someone (who?) about something, rather than teaching itself.



> What really sticks on my gut about this who argument is that it seems to separate left wingers from the working class as if they where two separate groups with no overlap. I identify myself as a socialist (but not a Leninist, I did once but no more) and I'm working class. I have as much right to speak and be heard as any other member of the working class, but no more that any other, I don't just have a right to argue my corner but a responsibility to do so. I don't believe you really disagree with this.


 
Left wing as organised groups are separate from the wider w/c no matter how much it sticks in your guts. No one is saying that you don't have a right to speak, you do. What you and other socialists do not have the right to do is to say that the needs of the w/c are being articulated by you because you're a socialist.



> I honestly don't get what you saying here, either you go to the working class and just do whatever they want (how you decided which bit I don't know), or you have to be prepared to stand your ground and argue for you beliefs when it is appropriate to do so. If it's the latter then I don't see how that differs from the existing left other than you saying it's different. You might want to argue you can do it better and that in general the culture of the left makes it bad at doing this in practice, but you can't really argue you are doing something different.


 
'Go to the w/c'? This is the language of a group relating to an external group - you don't 'go to the w/c'. Who is going?

What on earth made you think that activity in w/c communities means _not_ arguing about your collective interests and needs? That's the whole point, rather than turning up and going _yep we've worked it all out for you, you must be a formal socialist, wait whilst we patiently explain it to you._

In 2012 - really?


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## emanymton (Mar 9, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This is the historical experience of leninism, it's the historical self-understanding of leninism - without it it is not leninism. If you don't believe that your party is in advance of the workers, that it has to reach the backward workers though the most advanced layers of the workers and that task has been consecrated to you by the virtue of being in a leninist party then you're not a leninist. You may still have the cultural resiudes of believing that everyone else is relatively backwards by comparison though. (And that's without going into the problems of scale models of i'm a 98% class conscious worker - what are you?)


So you can't meet my challenge then, all you have is the historical experience of Leninism. I would challenge your assertion that Leninists believe the party is in advance of the workers. Firstly it should be a party that consist mostly of workers and the workers can't be more advanced than the workers. They would say that the party consists of some of the most advanced workers, but that is a very different thing. What I think, and this might be part what you are saying as well, is that the language used (being more advanced, being more class conscious) *can* create a sense of superiority and elitism. In this cases it is not the basic theory that is at fault but the way it is expressed and put into practice. I guess you will argue that it is an unavoidable outcome of the theory, but I just can't see the logic of that.



butchersapron said:


> Nice of you to concede that rather than this being pretty much the whole point that it's possible it might teach someone (who?) about something, rather than teaching itself.


OK, yes clumsy language on my part I should try harder, I mean that really I should. Individual members of the working class learn from their experience and from each others. Nothing teaches like experience though.



butchersapron said:


> Left wing as organised groups are separate from the wider w/c no matter how much it sticks in your guts. No one is saying that you don't have a right to speak, you do. What you and other socialists do not have the right to do is to say that the needs of the w/c are being articulated by you because you're a socialist.


I disagree with the first part, sort of. As I said originally there is overlap, not all members of left wing groups are workers and obviously not all workers are members of left wing groups, but they are (well most of them) strongly connected to the working class. On your second point you are of course quite right.


butchersapron said:


> 'Go to the w/c'? This is the language of a group relating to an external group - you don't 'go to the w/c'. Who is going?


Yes shit use of language again, sorry.


butchersapron said:


> What on earth made you think that activity in w/c communities means _not_ arguing about your collective interests and needs? That's the whole point, rather than turning up and going _yep we've worked it all out for you, you must be a formal socialist, wait whilst we patiently explain it to you._
> 
> In 2012 - really?


What's the year got to do with anything?
This really is the crux of it again. If you argue for you position you are effectively saying you have at least some of it worked out. I really think you criticism of the left (around this point at least) is one of style not substance.


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## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2012)

emanymton said:


> Yes,but who actually subscribes to this theory, I challenge you to show be in writing someone seriously arguing for this. Some dickheads might act like this but tha's a different issue.


 
The challenge? There's a post on the last page that does it, and that didn't come out of his own head - it came from the sort of assumptions that are commonplace on what's left of the left. 

You want me to show you people from the left arguing that left is in advance of the w/c and so needs to to patiently explain' to the w/c how the left is right? How long have you been in the left?


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## butchersapron (Mar 9, 2012)

emanymton said:


> So you can't meet my challenge then, all you have is the historical experience of Leninism. I would challenge your assertion that Leninists believe the party is in advance of the workers. Firstly it should be a party that consist mostly of workers and the workers can't be more advanced than the workers. They would say that the party consists of some of the most advanced workers, but that is a very different thing. What I think, and this might be part what you are saying as well, is that the language used (being more advanced, being more class conscious) *can* create a sense of superiority and elitism. In this cases it is not the basic theory that is at fault but the way it is expressed and put into practice. I guess you will argue that it is an unavoidable outcome of the theory, but I just can't see the logic of that.


The whole point of a leninist party is that it is advance of the workers. If you don't recognise that basic point then you've no business discussing leninism. And no, the theory means the party is in advance. Did you ever even realise this when you were a leninist?



> OK, yes clumsy language on my part I should try harder, I mean that really I should. Individual members of the working class learn from their experience and from each others. Nothing teaches like experience though.


 
Ok, but why even think to frame it that way?



> I disagree with the first part, sort of. As I said originally there is overlap, not all members of left wing groups are workers and obviously not all workers are members of left wing groups, but they are (well most of them) strongly connected to the working class. On your second point you are of course quite right.


 
Any overlap is minimal marginal and irrelevant.



> Yes shit use of language again, sorry.
> 
> What's the year got to do with anything?


 
Because this is dinosaur talk



> This really is the crux of it again. If you argue for you position you are effectively saying you have at least some of it worked out. I really think you criticism of the left (around this point at least) is one of style not substance.


 
No, it's not. It's one of base approach. If it's the same as mine it would not start from the position that a party could ever hold claim to a higher or more developed conciousness.  if it's the banality that people think different things then fine - but why the song and dance in defence of the opposite above?


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## emanymton (Mar 9, 2012)

I'll have to answer tomorrow, I have things I need to do and I'm using you to distract myself from them.


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## past caring (Mar 9, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> In hindsight it might have been prudent to add _'in struggle'_ to your final sentence in order to avoid unnecessary twaddle?


 
Indeed - was struggling for words a bit.


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## ayatollah (Mar 9, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I see what you are saying. However this is what the far left is doing now and it isn't achieving much. I don't think the politics should be hidden as, initially, I think they should be openly working class politics focusing on material gain for working class people in a community or work place where the point that unemployment isn't down to immigration and cuts aren't being implemented because "Britain is skint". However, I maintain that abstract notions shouldn't be bombarded upon working class people when you are first getting boots on the ground and building up a good relationship. What will people think of you if you reel quotes from Marx; they'll think you're a crank.


 
I entirely agree with you. You've buggered up that debate then !


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 9, 2012)

krink said:


> tbf to DU it is quite subtle compared to your usual punnery!


 
all the eggs in the same basket? all the Basques in the same exit??

euuuuuuuurrrrrrrgh...


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## ayatollah (Mar 9, 2012)

Butchersapron quote
"No, it's not. It's one of base approach. If it's the same as mine it would not start from the position that a party could ever hold claim to a higher or more developed conciousness. if it's the banality that people think different things then fine - but why the song and dance in defence of the opposite above? "

THIS seems to be the nub or crux of the philosophical , and hence political, difference between those of us on here arguing from a socialist perspective and the people arguing that a socialist party shouldn't operate from the basis of having "a more developed consciousness" than the mass of working class people". Well, OK it sounds really poncy and elitist to claim that a socialist organisation, which of course must aim to include as many (blue collar, white collar, unemployed)working class people as can be attracted to the struggle, can have an understanding of how capitalism works, and what the objectives of class struggle should be to bring about a fairer, juster society, BEYOND the mass of the working class. BUT to argue that this isn't possible is to wilfully ignore just how much reactionery shit has been thoroughly absorbed from the mass media, and the crappy existence under capitalism for most people, into a wide reaching repressive IDEOLOGY , which prevents MOST working class people from recognising who their real enemy is and how to combat the system which oppresses them. If this wasn't true, why are so many working class people avid Monarchists, rabid racists, extreme Nationalists, etc etc. The ruling class wouldn't spend so much time and effort dominating the content and tone of popular culture and the news mediaif it didn't serve to maintain the status quo.

A Socialist party acts as the "collective historical memory" of the class, learning lessons from defeats as well as victories, so that, hopefully, the working class and its allies don't have to relearn all the lessons learnt by each generation in struggle from square one over and over, To deny the role of socialist theory, and the need for principled working class based socialist parties to drive forward the struggle by banding together the most class conscious, militant, combative, workers, is the worst sort of "spontaneist" nonsense.. and leads nowhere.


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## barney_pig (Mar 11, 2012)

It is 95 years since lenins bolsheviki seized power and parties based on the Leninist model werecestablished all over the world.ayatolah, can you tell us of one instance in all that time when a party  like the one you describe has existed?
If you wish to style yourself as " the memory of the class", then you might try remembering the record of such parties.


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## barney_pig (Mar 11, 2012)

And what is the difference between your distain for the poor duped proles, and jazzz and his clones whining about sheeple?


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## ayatollah (Mar 11, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> And what is the difference between your distain for the poor duped proles, and jazzz and his clones whining about sheeple?


 
I am the last person to deny that all too many socialist parties , everywhere, have all too often exhibitted "false memory syndrome" when trying to understand the lessons to be learnt from the defeats in particular of the working class. Indeed, on another thread , on the Greek crisis, a representative of the Communist KKE, has repeatedly defended ALL the disastrous policies of Stalin , as if they represented all that is the best in socialist theory and action !

That being said, are you actually denying that the TINY super rich ruling class across the world manages to maintain its privileges other than by successfully weaving a web of IDEOLOGY which fools most people, most of the time, into actively supporting capitalism, or at least grudgingly going along with it as an economic and social system ? If most people are not fooled most of the time by the whole raft of ideology which oppresses us all , then you presumeably find nothing strange in the current widespread enthusiasm in the UK for the daft pageantry of the Golden Jubilee (Gawd Bless Er !), at a time when most people are facing real hardship ? Recognising that capitalist ideology persuades most people, most of the time , to go along with the grossly unequal system of capitalism , does NOT mean that socialists view the working class as "poor duped proles" as you suggest. It is recognising how ALL class societies work, from the heart ripping theocracy of the pre Columbian Inca Empire, to Feudalism, to modern day capitalism. For example the pre Columbian Inca thought it was necessary to rip the living heart out of sacrificial victims each day.. or the sun wouldn't rise ... NOT because they were STUPID, but because they were ensnared within a particular world view - an IDEOLOGY - which bolstered the structure of the class society of their day. 


I am also not denying that it is currently impossible to point to a socialist party which has all the answers, or the perfect organisational form, (whatever that might be), to build a mass revolutionery party of the most militant and class conscious workers, to overthrow capitalism... but that doesn't mean that the myriad of small socialist/anarchist groupings currently trying to play an active role in resisting the austerity offensive and TRYING to interpret and understand what is going on and to find a way forward, are't collectively part of the eventual solution. Yeh they are all flawed -- too many are bonded to a version of "Leninism" which encourages sectarianism ... but the current post 2008 Crash struggle is in its early days -- lots of time yet to develop and modify structures and policies as the struggle intensifies.


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## barney_pig (Mar 11, 2012)

perhaps i am just intrigued as to how holding a party card in your wallet makes you immune


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## Ranbay (Mar 13, 2012)

*Dates for your diary 
5th May Luton
16th June Dewsbury 
21st July Bristol 
18th August Walthamstow 
September Walsall Date pending.*


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## ayatollah (Mar 13, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> perhaps i am just intrigued as to how holding a party card in your wallet makes you immune


Being a member of a socialist organisation, or simply holding to a socialist or "Marxist" world view, DOESN't make anyone immune to influence from the all pervading capitalist propaganda permeating all aspects of life. However given that socialist analysis and activity provides a counterbalancing world view and model for comparison to contrast with the dominant ideology it is possible for socialists to "filter" a lot of the dominant ideology out, and hence hopefully find a collective and individual way forward "against the stream" of omnipresent ideas like , Racism, Monarchism,sexism, the inevitability of capitalist relations , the claimed inevitability of the current "austerity" strategy of the ruling class , etc.

However , remembering, for instance, the rampant male chauvinist sexism rampant on the supposed "revolutionery" Left in my youth in the 1970's , the ability to disconnect oneself from the dominant ideology of the time is only ever partial and incomplete. AND of course the counterposing ideology of the Left can often take "wrong turns" - eg, Stalinism, the extraordinary sectarianism in many Trotskyist groups , etc. All one can say is that a Socialist perspective provides an alternative "world view tool kit" for workers engaged in struggle with capitalism -- it doesn't guarantee that the conclusions drawn using this frame of reference will always be correct . Only putting a particular analysis into PRACTICE, shows whether a particular analysis is right or wrong.

One thing is certain though, expecting "everyday popular common sense" to provide an accurate model of the world , such as to guide people to genuinely identify the source of their oppression, is stunningly naive - not because people are generally "stupid", but because throughout history the "ruling ideas of any age have been the ideas of the ruling class". Hence the rising bourgeois class in Europe in the Middle Ages had to break with many key aspects of the Feudal ideology of that time, in order to see themselves as a distinct class with a particular interest and future social/economic role. Such is the task facing the working class today.It's not rocket science as a concept, its not even specifically "marxist" ... it was a basic ingredient of the O level Sociology I used to teach 30 years ago for heavens sake ! If people weren't generally easily persuadable by propaganda and controlled information flows to hold particular views or view objects and events in particular ways, the entire Lobbying and advertising industries have been wasting their time and money for a long, long, time now !


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## barney_pig (Mar 13, 2012)

But no attempt to answer as to why the "mammary of the class" can't remember the record of 100 years of Leninist failure, but just wants to repeat it all over again.


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## barney_pig (Mar 13, 2012)

Nor how you can claim that your ideology raises you above the herd.


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## krink (Mar 13, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> *Dates for your diary *
> *5th May Luton*
> *16th June Dewsbury *
> *21st July Bristol *
> ...


 
oh well at least there's none anywhere near me. we have the daft gets from infidels instead but they're fuck all.


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## ayatollah (Mar 13, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> But no attempt to answer as to why the "mammary of the class" can't remember the record of 100 years of Leninist failure, but just wants to repeat it all over again.


 
"mammery".. good one..nothing like raising the tone. The question therefore arises as to YOUR own "solution" to the ever deepening capitalist crisis, barney_pig. Sneering one liners are all very well, but don't add anything to the debate - especially as you haven't actually understood a word I've written.

I assume you have some view as to where we go from here ? Ever onwards down the capitalist road to ever greater austerity ? A "spontaneous" fightback by working people, with no attempt to get militant class fighters organised or tackle the sheer weight of capitalist ideology ? Don't like that one much ... left to the most powerful "drivers" of capitalist ideology, nationalism and racism, people may well "choose" to go down the fascist route. I don't know about you but I'm not in favour of that. I'm not a fan of traditional "Leninism" in its stalinist guise either actually . I think I'd rather go for Democratic Socialism thanks very much. And YOURSELF ? Care to enlighten us where YOU stand ? Or are you just a bottleless single line of negativity Troll type of guy ?


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## barney_pig (Mar 13, 2012)

What I am opposed to is the Leninist lie that the working class cannot challenge the ideas of the ruling class without the assistance of The Party,


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## barney_pig (Mar 13, 2012)

Democratic socialism is an ambiguous term; is Philip Gould your guru?or is it Mandel that floats your boat?
Neither in my view have been able to offer the working class any thing more than a choice of controllers.


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## ayatollah (Mar 13, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> Democratic socialism is an ambiguous term; is Philip Gould your guru?or is it Mandel that floats your boat?
> Neither in my view have been able to offer the working class any thing more than a choice of controllers.


 
Nope I'm just  a revolutionery socialist. I wasn't aware that any NuLabourites nowadays favoured the "S" word. Revolutionery socialism doesn't always mean an admiration for the rigid excesses of what is nowadays seen as "Leninism" - but is more accurately a term which describes the excesses of  Stalinism.   However, without a well organised, and reasonably disciplined, but democratically structured, socialist party, or hopefully, set of parties, it is hard to see how working class people and their allies, who wish to take on the hard organisational  task of opposing capitalism in a crisis on a long term basis, can actually pool their resources and experiences to carry out that historic task.

Pray tell us  Barney_pig, assuming you are not a big fan of the continuation of capitalism, how YOU see the coming struggle being mobilised ? You are good at sneering in one liners .. but strangely silent at putting forward ANY ideas as to how capitalism can be  fought in a coherent and effective way ... without groupings of people united around a set of principles, aims and objectives, getting together to do this , ie "parties".  If you just think that  a rising tide of working class anger will spontaneously lead to a mass rising one day, and the institution of a egalitarian society - then dream on -- because there are a LOT of other well organised PARTIES offering all sorts of very nasty alternatives with seductive ideologies to the working class -- Fascism for one.


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## barney_pig (Mar 13, 2012)

Which trotskyist gang floats your boat ayatollah?


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## ayatollah (Mar 13, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> Which trotskyist gang floats your boat ayatollah?


Sorry to disappoint you Barney_pig, I had my fill of 10 years of Trotskyism in the 70's. However , depite the almost semi-religious "scriptural" nature of their inner life, and usually viciously sectarian nature of a lot of Trotskyism, and its failure as a thead of the socialist tradition to really analyse what is wrong with "Democratic Centralism" in its Leninist form for party building , I nevertheless recognise that there are many fine revolutionery socialists spread across the Trotskyist grouplets in the UK and elswhere , with plenty to bring to the struggle. Like a lot of socialists I'm hoping, perhaps forlornly that the rising tide of struggle will lead to new alignments on the Left, and the eventual emergeance of a better series of revolutionery parties, tempered by the needs of the struggle itself, rather than old dogma. By which I DON't mean the basic principles of socialism itself.

If you are some sort of Anarchist, Barney_pig, fine by me, I recognise the contribution of Anarchist theory too to the rich mix which the working class needs to draw upon in struggling to build a better society, based on democratic workers power.

What I would suggest however, is that Anarchism has not grasped the "problem" of the state, and revolutionery organisation, and the overthrow of capitalism any more successfully than Trotskyism. But wheras "Leninism" has chosen over-rigid centralism for the Party as the vehicle to confront a highly organised capitalist state - and hence laid itself vulnerable to the Stalinist takeover of both Party AND state... Anarchism has overemphasised "spontaneity" in working class self activity, underappreciating the key role of capitalist ideology in holding back workers not organised in a political party from effectively carrying out that struggle. And of course the typical shambolic anarchist grouping is fine for turning out a few "Black Bloc" street fighters to throw rocks at the police, or campaign around local issues , but is USELESS in taking on and defeating the capitalist state.

I suggest both traditions could have something to "bring to the party" (pun).


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## barney_pig (Mar 13, 2012)

I apologise to you ayatollah, I thought you were being newly mouthed about your troskyism and so was goading you on that basis.
 I do not, as might be expected agree that anarchists have failed to understand  the capitalist state: I think we do, and do so better that the leninists do. After all, where we understand that an essential part of the oppression of capitalist state IS THE STATE! Leninists want to replace that state with one of their own, thus replicating that oppression in a different form.
I also have serious issue with the whole Marxist conception of false consciousness, if the French san cullottes believed they were fighting for liberte egalite fraternite but instead were dying to make Europe safe for capitalism, is it not possible that marxists aren't fighting for another form of exploitative class society.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> I apologise to you ayatollah, I thought you were being newly mouthed about your troskyism and so was goading you on that basis.
> I do not, as might be expected agree that anarchists have failed to understand the capitalist state: I think we do, and do so better that the leninists do. After all, where we understand that an essential part of the oppression of capitalist state IS THE STATE! Leninists want to replace that state with one of their own, thus replicating that oppression in a different form.
> I also have serious issue with the whole Marxist conception of false consciousness, if the French san cullottes believed they were fighting for liberte egalite fraternite but instead were dying to make Europe safe for capitalism, is it not possible that marxists aren't fighting for another form of exploitative class society.


newly mouthed? do you mean mealy mouthed?

oh - and not only possible but extremely likely.


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## barney_pig (Mar 13, 2012)

the problem of posting off a phone with a creative attitude to spell check.


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## The39thStep (Mar 14, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> I apologise to you ayatollah, I thought you were being newly mouthed about your troskyism and so was goading you on that basis.
> I do not, as might be expected agree that anarchists have failed to understand the capitalist state: I think we do, and do so better that the leninists do. After all, where we understand that an essential part of the oppression of capitalist state IS THE STATE! Leninists want to replace that state with one of their own, thus replicating that oppression in a different form.
> I also have serious issue with the whole Marxist conception of false consciousness, if the French san cullottes believed they were fighting for liberte egalite fraternite but instead were dying to make Europe safe for capitalism, is it not possible that marxists aren't fighting for another form of exploitative class society.


 

what about his point about the Black Bloc though?


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## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2012)

Tbf I think he talking crap.
Anarchism may not have overthrown capitalism recently, but I am unaware of leninism/revolutionary socialism having much of a track record on that either.
However neither do anarchists have a track record of giving support and succour to brutal and murderous dictatorships around the world, something that Leninist/ revolutionary socialists tend to indulge in regularly.
The working class is only a means to an end for them, to be abandoned when circumstances dictate.


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## ayatollah (Mar 14, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> Tbf I think he talking crap.
> Anarchism may not have overthrown capitalism recently, but I am unaware of leninism/revolutionary socialism having much of a track record on that either.
> However neither do anarchists have a track record of giving support and succour to brutal and murderous dictatorships around the world, something that Leninist/ revolutionary socialists tend to indulge in regularly.
> The working class is only a means to an end for them, to be abandoned when circumstances dictate.


 
No Anarchism hasn't (overthrown capitalism anywhere , anytime.). And the big organisational problem with Anarchism's unlimited democratic modus operandi when faced with the well disciplined fascists on one hand and the equally well disciplined Stalinists on the other, during the Spanish Civil War, is worth remembering too, as the reason why.

Yep, All too many "marxists" have supported far to many crazed dictatorships . I agree.
Yep, "Trotskyism" was left , as it saw itself , "holding to the flame of revolutionery socialist internationalism", ever since the Stalinist usurpsation of the brief revolutionery hopes of 1917, during the long postwar boom - to degenerate in its social isolation all too often into a semi religious sect - doing some good work in industrial militancy and anti fascism - but generally destructively sectarian.

So NOW the Long Wave capitalist crisis is upon us, as mistakenly predicted by the Left generally about a million times since 1945. So is the marxist analysis of the underlying structural reasons for this crisis correct ? I think it is. Is Marx right that " All history is the history of class struggle " .. and the Working Class will inevitably replace capitalism with socialism ? NO, I think, that's semi mystical bollocks. So where does the Left generally go from here ? I respect the Anarchist insight as to the role of the state and the critique of the "Leninist/Stalinist" concept of the party. However "spontaneous" mass working class self realisation of the nature of capitalism , and the necessary organisation to oppose it and replace it is a myth - it will take a well organised , mass socialist party/s to band together masses of class conscious working class people and their allies, to do this. And, is there therefore a BIG danger of such a party usurping the democratic control of the working class ? YES there is -- which is the BIG "Catch 22" of the revolutionery task facing us. If I had the solution , I'd let you in on the big secret.. but I DON'T.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Mar 14, 2012)

'Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it'.


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> No Anarchism hasn't (overthrown capitalism anywhere , anytime.). And the big organisational problem with Anarchism's unlimited democratic modus operandi when faced with the well disciplined fascists on one hand and the equally well disciplined Stalinists on the other, during the Spanish Civil War, is worth remembering too, as the reason why.
> 
> Yep, All too many "marxists" have supported far to many crazed dictatorships . I agree.
> Yep, "Trotskyism" was left , as it saw itself , "holding to the flame of revolutionery socialist internationalism", ever since the Stalinist usurpsation of the brief revolutionery hopes of 1917, during the long postwar boom - to degenerate in its social isolation all too often into a semi religious sect - doing some good work in industrial militancy and anti fascism - but generally destructively sectarian.
> ...


The lesson this anarchist takes from Spain is not to trust Leninists at all.


----------



## Red Storm (Mar 14, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> The lesson this anarchist takes from Spain is not to trust Leninists at all.


 
LOL


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2012)

Ayatollah, you remind me of General Melchett on Blackadder, just because walking slowly across no mans land directly at the machine guns has failed many times before is no reason not to try it again.


----------



## ayatollah (Mar 14, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> Ayatollah, you remind me of General Melchett on Blackadder, just because walking slowly across no mans land directly at the machine guns has failed many times before is no reason not to try it again.


But are YOU channeling Baldrick, with his cunning (Anarchist) plan ?

(Which has never ever come anywhere near overthrowing capitalism anywhere, and so is NEVER going to disappoint you by "turning to the bad". At least the then revolutionery socialists of the 1917 Bolshevik Party led a genuine socialist revolution for a VERY short time , before the location of the revolution in a mainly peasant country, and isolation because of the failure of the German revolutionery wave, led the revolution into the nightmare of Party substitutionism (for the rule of the working class), and then Stalinism in all its New Class horror.

Everyone HAS noticed by the way that you haven't at ANY point had the bottle to actually say what YOU'D do to tackle the capitalist crisis my anarchist friends ... VERY unimpressive lack of condidence on your part. Sneering alone , is NOT the same as having a political philosophy you know boys.


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2012)

the bolsheviks led the Russian revolution in the same way as the pied piper led the rats out of Hamelin- straight to the deaths of the revolutionaries.
  Lenins party were able to sieze power by running to the front and gaining a fleeting popularity, then ruthlessly suppressing all who differed from their tyranny; the factory councils, the anarchists, left SRs, mensheviks, then the soviets themselves. your bolsheviks were the counter revolution.
 Anarchism has been marginalised throughout the 20th century by the big battalians of Leninism and social democracy; where it has had an influence within the class, most notably in the Ukraine, Spain and also in the Chinese workers movement it was drowned in blood by your heroes the bolshevik leninists.


----------



## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> Everyone HAS noticed by the way that you haven't at ANY point had the bottle to actually say what YOU'D do to tackle the capitalist crisis my anarchist friends ... VERY unimpressive lack of condidence on your part. Sneering alone , is NOT the same as having a political philosophy you know boys.


that is because this thread is supposed to be about the EDL, before your massive derail


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## Red Storm (Mar 14, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> that is because this thread is supposed to be about the EDL, before your massive derail


 
Actually it wasn't really derailed it just organically got to the point. If anything you carrying it on is derailing it.


----------



## audiotech (Mar 14, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> What I am opposed to is the Leninist lie that the working class cannot challenge the ideas of the ruling class without the assistance of The Party,


 
Nobody is suggesting that the working class cannot challenge ruling ideas. The fundamental question is about the working class taking power, but anarchists usually have a problem with that.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 14, 2012)

so what happened to the edl then? honestly, anarchists leave you lot in command and it all turns into factionalism. im awa' back to the but 'n' ben the now.


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

seriously can't be arsed with the factionalism on here lately.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, normally Urban's good precisely because we don't tend to focus on this kind of sectarian shite. Although I've seen a pattern since I've been here. RMP3 posts a thread supposedly about anarchism and trolls everyone to fuck, to the extent that he pisses off other trots, and then the sectarian virus spreads to other threads.

It's a shame it turned into trots vs anarchos cos I thought the IWCA debate could have been interesting and, in the main, people were asking why it didn't spread not to slag it off but to work out how it might be made to work in the future.

Hearing two groups of people, neither of whom are even remotely likely to take power in the forseeable future (or rather not take power but win anyway or something in the case of anarchos) arguing on one side that the other's ideas are unworkable and on the other that they inevitably result in tyranny is fucking tedious and goes some way towards explaining why the right has been pissing all over us for God knows how long.


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## barney_pig (Mar 14, 2012)

sorry.


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## Ranbay (Mar 15, 2012)

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/legal-action-started-over-edl-leaflets-1-3624495

*Legal action started over EDL leaflets*


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## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

Bob have you ever thought of what would be your next hobby once the EDL wind up? I have a mate who really got into digging for Victorian beer bottles.


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## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

[quote="barney_pig, post: 10998067, member: 35297"*]the bolsheviks led the Russian revolution in the same way as the pied piper led the rats out of Hamelin- straight to the deaths of the revolutionaries.*
Lenins party were able to sieze power by running to the front and gaining a fleeting popularity, then ruthlessly suppressing all who differed from their tyranny; the factory councils, the anarchists, left SRs, mensheviks, then the soviets themselves. your bolsheviks were the counter revolution.
Anarchism has been marginalised throughout the 20th century by the big battalians of Leninism and social democracy; where it has had an influence within the class, most notably in the Ukraine, Spain and also in the Chinese workers movement it was drowned in blood by your heroes the bolshevik leninists.[/quote]

Probably one of the worst analogies I have ever read


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## Ranbay (Mar 15, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Bob have you ever thought of what would be your next hobby once the EDL wind up? I have a mate who really got into digging for Victorian beer bottles.


 
That's just pure lies............... theres no way you have mates


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## Kev Scott LTJ (Mar 15, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/legal-action-started-over-edl-leaflets-1-3624495
> 
> *Legal action started over EDL leaflets*


Loving the comments on the article!


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## Kev Scott LTJ (Mar 15, 2012)

Nice t' see ya back malatesta........ albeit briefly


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## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

Kev, how do you see the state of the far right these days?


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## Teaboy (Mar 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/legal-action-started-over-edl-leaflets-1-3624495
> 
> *Legal action started over EDL leaflets*


 
You'd think they would have learnt from the Marmite v BNP fiasco.


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 16, 2012)

I doubt the leaflet thing will make any difference short of confirming to paranoid EDLers the idea that they're being oppressed by the establishment.


----------



## Termite Man (Mar 17, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I doubt the leaflet thing will make any difference short of confirming to paranoid EDLers the idea that they're being oppressed by the establishment.


 
If anything it could be a clever tactic by the EDL to elicit that very response


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 17, 2012)

About 5 EDL knuckle draggers turned up at Tony Greenstein's book launch (anti-fascism in Brighton) today - plod out in vast numbers.


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## intersol32 (Mar 17, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> About 5 EDL knuckle draggers turned up at Tony Greenstein's book launch (anti-fascism in Brighton) today - plod out in vast numbers.


 
Any more details on the incident? or did they just hang around inside police lines looking glum?

Despite this, I'm guessing Greenstein's book had nothing to do with promoting 'Extremist Islam' and the pretence that the EDL is not a nest of fascist fuckheads is left in the gutter?


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 17, 2012)

Plod contained them. One anti-fa arrest.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 17, 2012)

http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/WELL-FIGHT-THEM-NEAR-THE-BEACHES/

How much did that cost, to protect a few cunts?


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## Ranbay (Mar 18, 2012)

http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/successful-anti-fascist-book-despite.html







just lol


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## emanymton (Mar 18, 2012)

emanymton said:


> I'll have to answer tomorrow, I have things I need to do and I'm using you to distract myself from them.


I did mean to come back to this but never seemed to be got around to it*, and thinking abut it I don't think it's really appropriate for this thread. Although hopefully with have bored the arse of all the EDL watching it so they have all fucked off.

He, may disagree but as far as I'm concerned me and butchers are on the same side. I still don't feel I have got my head around exactly what he is saying, but we probably both have better things to do with our time than argue about it on here.

*I'm sure no one really gives a shit what I think anyway.


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## emanymton (Mar 18, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> I also have serious issue with the whole Marxist conception of false consciousness, if the French san cullottes believed they were fighting for liberte egalite fraternite but instead were dying to make Europe safe for capitalism, is it not possible that marxists aren't fighting for another form of exploitative class society.


 
Interesting thought. Just to clarify do you mean that you don't accepted the idea of false consciousness at all, or that you do to a certain extent and consider this a possibility because of that, or something else?


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## Red Storm (Mar 18, 2012)

The neo-nazi group ‘golden dawn’ (chrysi augi) is projected to enter the parliament for the first time in the upcoming elections. Ahead of these elections, the group has been trying to open offices across greece and on Monday (March 12) they opened their office in the centre of the port city of Patras. In response, two days later anarchists marched to the building in broad daylight (should this be in golden dawn?) and trashed them, burning the neo-nazi propaganda inside, smashing up waterpipes, doors and walls and throwing furniture out.

The video that follows is from local corporate media.




http://anarchist.visibli.com/links/d8erTJ


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## manny-p (Mar 18, 2012)

Don't mean to be a dick. But what has the above got to do with the EDL?

p.s-fair play to the ppl in Greece who done that to that scummy group.


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## Red Storm (Mar 18, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Don't mean to be a dick. But what has the above got to do with the EDL?
> 
> p.s-fair play to the ppl in Greece who done that to that scummy group.


 
I doesn't. I was being a lazy dick and couldn't be arsed making a new thread. Poor forum etiquette .


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## intersol32 (Mar 19, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/successful-anti-fascist-book-despite.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
There's a number of interesting things about this picture. Firstly, the guy on the far right (naturally) looks as though he's pointing at the heavens hoping for divine intervention. The next is the bloke with the hood up and face mask. I mean it's not like he can blend into the crowd here when there's only five of them. I'm sure the cops finally brought all their investigative skills to bear on finding this twit's mysterious identity (without the use of CCTV and facial mapping). Finally, it's actually an appropriate place to view the EDL, and to paraphrase Rob Brydon; "it's a metaphor...for your life". In this case up a dead end street, somewhere near the bins.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 19, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/successful-anti-fascist-book-despite.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
"The biggest protest movement in the world"


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## malatesta32 (Mar 19, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> "The biggest protest movement in the world"





B0B2oo9 said:


> http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/successful-anti-fascist-book-despite.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


meanwhile, events as seen by the EDL.
http://twitpic.com/8yeax6
no surrender. oh, okay then officer. we surrender.
ps: looking at this kind of stuff in cyber cafes makes you look very dodgy indeed!


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## albionism (Mar 19, 2012)

a dead end street called  Farm Yard


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## butchersapron (Mar 19, 2012)

I wonder, had they been drinking in the western front? Not the sort of place they'd feel at home.


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## Ranbay (Mar 19, 2012)

place on the left does Hog roast's....  Maybe they assumed they would be safer there?


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## butchersapron (Mar 21, 2012)

2 years of_ it's all kicking off!!!  -_ not once did it kick off.


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## Deareg (Mar 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> 2 years of_ it's all kicking off!!! -_ not once did it kick off.


They had a few fights among themselves.


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## Ranbay (Mar 27, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-17522087

SDL and NWI and i guess some EDL would have gone for a laugh....


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## krink (Mar 27, 2012)

now, the nf usually do something in newcastle on the saturday nearest st george's day - this is the day after this hitler march in aberdeen. would they have the energy to do both?


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## Ranbay (Mar 28, 2012)

http://www.streetartnews.net/2012/03/ben-slow-new-mural-in-london.html


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 28, 2012)

Some twat has scratched the letters "EDL" into my neighbour's car bonnet. I'm fucking livid tbh. It's not the most close-knit community in the world, mainly because of the transient student population, but everyone, Muslim or not, says hello in the street etc. There's no fucking extremists and no problem with Muslamic Rayguns round here. But now my neighbours are bound to be suspicious of people they don't know walking along our road. Utter fucking cunts. I'm gonna go over and see the bloke when he gets home from work to see if he saw anything and to give him my number so if anything else happens he can call me if he wants.

I didn't even know there _was_ a fucking EDL in Sheffield, never heard a peep from them. I suspect this is actually a bunch of sad little virgins who've seen the EDL on the telly and thought it was cool. I don't think there's really anything to worry about for my neighbours, apart from anything else if it kicked off the whole street would come out and help them, but what the fuck did the twats think they would achieve by doing this?


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## krink (Mar 28, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I suspect this is actually a bunch of sad little virgins who've seen the EDL on the telly and thought it was cool.


 
Probably this but still, little cunts need a clip and then a talking to (would have worked on me when i was a kid and thought writing NF on the bus stop was cool).


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## belboid (Mar 28, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I didn't even know there _was_ a fucking EDL in Sheffield


there isn't really.  a couple of individuals, who have atttempted a couple of 'actions', but have always failed totally and utterly. it wont even have been  bunch of sad virgins, most likely just one sad twat with no friends


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## articul8 (Mar 28, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I wonder, had they been drinking in the western front? Not the sort of place they'd feel at home.


all quiet on the western front


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## john x (Mar 29, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I didn't even know there _was_ a fucking EDL in Sheffield,


 
Sheffield EDL facebook page has 7 'likes' and last post made 2010!

john x


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## Ranbay (Mar 29, 2012)

> *Redditch Demonstration*
> by (EDL) English Defence League on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 at 10:46pm ·
> Easter is rapidly approaching and many of you will be eager to attend the demonstration in Redditch on Saturday 7th of April.   The reason Redditch had been chosen as a venue for a protest is that there is evidence of possible Islamic grooming.  The local press initially publicised it but withdrew the articles when people started to comment.
> 
> ...


 
Or, just read it as, we couldnt fill enough coaches to make it worth while, what with it being Easter and stuff.


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## john x (Mar 30, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> we couldnt fill enough coaches to make it worth while,


 
The EDL don't do coaches anymore.

They do minibuses and car shares! 

john x


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## Corax (Mar 30, 2012)

john x said:


> The EDL don't do coaches anymore.
> 
> They do minibuses and car shares!
> 
> john x


Luton vans?


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## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

30 EDL and other twats V's

http://yfrog.com/o0zqunrj


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 31, 2012)

That's not the edl is it?


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 31, 2012)

any live links on the Aarhus thing anyone?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> That's not the edl is it?


 
V's them lot.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

largest estimate for Fash i have read is 75-100

more press and stuff then them.


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## butchersapron (Mar 31, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> V's them lot.


I don't know what you mean.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

*Versus*, often abbreviated *v.*, *v*, *vs.* or *vs* may refer to:


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 31, 2012)

SO who is your pic that you said was the edl a picture of?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> any live links on the Aarhus thing anyone?


 
http://stiften.dk/aarhus/live-foelg-demonstrationerne-i-aarhus


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## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1699/numbers

It's not looking good for the EDL and their friends. Certainly a lot of glum faces in the tiny contingent of racists.
We are hearing the EDL are outnumbered 100 to one at the moment, certainly not what you would call a convincing pan-european movement..


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 31, 2012)

So the pic you posted of the edl is a pic of anti-edl? Always good to know.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 31, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1699/numbers
> 
> It's not looking good for the EDL and their friends. Certainly a lot of glum faces in the tiny contingent of racists.
> We are hearing the EDL are outnumbered 100 to one at the moment, certainly not what you would call a convincing pan-european movement..


How the fuck would you know?


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## malatesta32 (Mar 31, 2012)

links to demo today. EDL etc massively outnumbered!
http://      vladtepes       blogDOTcom/?p=46440
andfootage here:
http://     nyhederneDOTtv2.dk/          live/stordemoeriaarhus/


<note from mods BREAK LINKS TO HOSTILE SITES>


----------



## john x (Mar 31, 2012)

Now hearing that the antis have broken through police lines and are attacking the fash. 

john x


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## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

the closed the demo down Early, stuck em all on a bus which got bricked and now Tommy is rushing home so he can be on The Big Question tomorrow morning.,.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

> Police figures are 150 EDL NDL + Other right wing dicks, and 8,000 antis,


 
Alegedly


----------



## john x (Mar 31, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> the closed the demo down Early, stuck em all on a bus which got bricked and now Tommy is rushing home so he can watch The Big Question tomorrow morning.,.


 
Fixed!

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 31, 2012)

nah he's on it for reals...


----------



## Fingers (Apr 1, 2012)

What a disaster

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...8-english-defence-league-humiliated-in-aarhus

and then this happens lol

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...8-english-defence-league-humiliated-in-aarhus


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2012)

coked up still or what?

Chruchill never said that, and he even tried to get the Mohammed was a peado line in....

tried to talk over everyone what a bellend


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 1, 2012)

Churchill was rabidly anti-islam.  Only one person made him look bad there - the quiet spoken muslim bloke at the end - the rest of them came across as chest prodding middle class finger waggers and community bureaucrats.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2012)

He still never said that what ever he thought about Islam.

He's looked a twat and wouldnt shut the fuck up, which works when is is dealing with a one on one invterview.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 1, 2012)

And what did he say that he said?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> And what did he say that he said?


 
"The _fascists_ of the _future will be called anti_-_fascists"_


----------



## thriller (Apr 1, 2012)

interesting appearance on the BBC this morning by Mr. EDL. The Muslim bloke who reeled of a list of Islamic achivements: science , astrology, mathamatics; would have got stumped if he was asked what century he was in as I cannot recall the last scientific, technological or medical breakthrough coming from the Middle East............


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2012)

thriller said:


> interesting appearance on the BBC this morning by Mr. EDL. The Muslim bloke who reeled of a list of Islamic achivements: science , astrology, mathamatics; would have got stumped if he was asked what century he was in as I cannot recall the last scientific, technological or medical breakthrough coming from the Middle East............


 
At least they where all true where as tommy just lied about stuff most of the time.


----------



## thriller (Apr 1, 2012)

true. very true. tommy is full of shit.

but i just get annoyed when i hear such things. he also talked about islam an women's rights, but conveniently forgot about women in saudi arabia-the home of islam-where a woman can't even drive or go out on her own without a male being present. don't see him outside the saudi embassy demonstrating against that injustice. no mention of absence of women in olympic teams from the middle east. if the edl prick challenged him on that, he would have got stumped.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2012)

I agree things are fucked up over there and there is issues with Islam, but the what tommy does is spread hate from bullshit, and for normal Muslims and it cuase trouble HERE for normal everyday people.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Apr 1, 2012)

In the wake of Lennon's appearance on BBC 'the big question' alongside Matthew Goodwin ... the following was promoted by EDL and retweeted by Lennon, a neonazi antisemite 'WATB' (nickname 'WALT') and another assorted white supremacist nutter who is very insignificant in the grand scheme of things ...



screengrab of link below

Goodwin's (an NWO Cultural Marxist apparently) is in the pay of Davi Dicke's Rothshild Zionists ... lolfail

As any fule kno, (but not EDL or Tommy Robinson who really loves Jews honest), metapedia is a white supremacist wiki


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1699/numbers
> 
> It's not looking good for the EDL and their friends. Certainly a lot of glum faces in the tiny contingent of racists.
> We are hearing the EDL are outnumbered 100 to one at the moment, certainly not what you would call a convincing pan-european movement..


 
Why are you so so focussed on the casual based EDL, didn't you see the Newsnight package on Germany?, a country whose economy is booming? They featured hundreds of mostly middle class Nationalists, The Immortals' all dressed in black and marching with lit torches, in some small towns, Neo Nazis, Nationalists have made them muslim/leftist, etc, free...


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> the closed the demo down Early, stuck em all on a bus which got bricked and now Tommy is rushing home so he can be on The Big Question tomorrow morning.,.


 
Arhus is a very liberal student city, a bit like Portland, its not surprising there was so much opposition..


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 1, 2012)

treelover said:


> Why are you so so focussed on the casual based EDL, didn't you see the Newsnight package on Germany?, a country whose economy is booming? They featured hundreds of mostly middle class Nationalists, The Immortals' all dressed in black and marching with lit torches, in some small towns, Neo Nazis, Nationalists have made them muslim/leftist, etc, free...


 
when they come down my street then i will look into it. However not living in Germany an all, i doubt im going to have to worry about them yet.


----------



## cantsin (Apr 1, 2012)

treelover said:


> Arhus is a very liberal student city, a bit like Portland, its not surprising there was so much opposition..


 
white nationsalist capital of Denmark according to the Observer today, the oppo had to travel, do you know something we don't ?


----------



## Fedayn (Apr 1, 2012)

treelover said:


> Arhus is a very liberal student city, a bit like Portland, its not surprising there was so much opposition..


 
It is also the 2nd largest city in Denmark and it's a big port city with a very well organised dockworkers union.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 2, 2012)

cantsin said:


> white nationsalist capital of Denmark according to the Observer today, the oppo had to travel, do you know something we don't ?



Well the more minor fascist protest also contained a lot of people from outside didnt it, out of a not impressive number in any case.

If it is indeed the "white nationalist capital of Denmark" it suggests one or both of

- There aint too much white nationalism in Denmark

- White nationalists don't overly identify with the EDL model.

Over here there is an increasing tendency for the latter. Like the BNP, the EDL have pretty much dropped the ball. Now the "biggest protest movement in the world" is a very long way from being the biggest protest movement at their own protest.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Well the more minor fascist protest also contained a lot of people from outside didnt it, out of a not impressive number in any case.
> 
> If it is indeed the "white nationalist capital of Denmark" it suggests one or both of
> 
> ...


 
If anything the edl looked at the example of the Danish People's Party and decided to adopt a beefed up version of their model.


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## DrRingDing (Apr 2, 2012)

cantsin said:


> white nationsalist capital of Denmark according to the Observer today, the oppo had to travel, do you know something we don't ?


 
I lived in Aarhus for a while. It is a liberal city, although it is on the mainland which is mainly rural and a bit blinkered. The city has a massive uni, I believe 10% of population are students. It is blessed with a large college for nurses which offers free education to Norwegian and Swedish students. So, there are quite a few Scandinavian trainee nurses about town. Which may also of been motivation for the fuckwits in the EDL to go on their jolly.


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## DrRingDing (Apr 2, 2012)

Although while I was there a particularly dodgy episode occurred:

A bunch of adult fash attacked a teenage trot shop, smashing the place up and giving the kids a good hiding.

The TV loved it and portrayed the fash as underground and a bit cool. They even gave the attackers interview with their faces blacked out. Quite disturbing.


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## Ranbay (Apr 2, 2012)

Doubt this has anything to do with the EDL or anything....


http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/police-probe-mosque-fire-1-3692062


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## FNG (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> 2 years of_ it's all kicking off!!! -_ not once did it kick off.


 

Sorry to pull you up on this one BA, but this 
is what happened when the EDL did manage to outnumber the Anti-Fash contingent, we can't afford to be complacent.
I know you're savy enough to see how the tactics outlines by JR and others in the AFA thread are every bit as relevant today,so i will leave it at that.

Plus,well, whenever internet trolls try to play the divide and rule game,remembering this always puts a big smile on my face






http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/united_kingdom/8836769.Sikhs_prove_EDL_wrong/


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 4, 2012)

This link details confirmed far right candidates for the local elections in may (noon today having been the deadline for nominations)

I only read it once, but in the case of the amazing new paradigm busting political force that is the British Freedom Party - their links to the "biggest protest movement in the world" have helped secure a massive 5 confirmed candidacies.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1725/630pm-candidate-update


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## Red Storm (Apr 4, 2012)

Is there a break down of who is standing in which ward? I'm interested in Salford.

Liverpool is an interesting case. BFP standing and the Tierneys are standing for the NF having left the BNP in Jan.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 4, 2012)

No such breakdown yet Red Storm. To be honest the best way to track Salford candidates is surely to hold your nose and go to the sites of the relevant parties. 

Liverpool EDL are one of the more rogue divisions so it is interesting again that only there do they seem, on current available evidence, to put together even a modest slate.

Anyhow: A round up of some recent EDL surrenders :

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/629-edl-cancel-oxford-demo


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## krink (Apr 5, 2012)

there was some pictures of the NWI thing in leeds posted on urban a while back, anyone remember which thread?i think the nf candidate in my town is pictured in one of them.
soz, i'm crap at searching


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## Ranbay (Apr 5, 2012)

" So i have been on like TV and Radio, calling Mohammed and peado and all Muslims are wife beating rapists yeah, now someone want's to kill me? i dont get it? " ---- Steven IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Lennon


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 5, 2012)

A "Memorandum of understanding" is the legal basis that the police use when they want to get one of their informants to go into the witness protection scheme. They don't generally send them out to people unsolicited, i know of people who've had threats against them and the police haven't dealt with it by sending a "memorandum of understanding" through the post.

I also notice that Mr Lennon has had some other criminal charges against him dropped recently. I don't know the nature of the crimes but its interesting when coupled with this. Co-incidence?


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## Ranbay (Apr 5, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorandum_of_understanding


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## manny-p (Apr 5, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> A "Memorandum of understanding" is the legal basis that the police use when they want to get one of their informants to go into the witness protection scheme. They don't generally send them out to people unsolicited, i know of people who've had threats against them and the police haven't dealt with it by sending a "memorandum of understanding" through the post.
> 
> I also notice that Mr Lennon has had some other criminal charges against him dropped recently. I don't know the nature of the crimes but its interesting when coupled with this. Co-incidence?


 
No he's defo got a handler and is defo an informant/state asset. To be fair I don't blame him if he goes into the witness protection scheme, I think he may have now realised how badly he has risked the well being of his family by acting like a complete cunt for all these years and has made more enemys than he can count.


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 5, 2012)

manny-p said:


> No he's defo got a handler and is defo an informant/state asset. To be fair I don't blame him if he goes into the witness protection scheme, I think he may have now realised how badly he has risked the well being of his family by acting like a complete cunt for all these years and has made more enemys than he can count.


 
yeah agreed I mean it's not just muslims is it, it's the other rival right-wing maniacs who he's pisssed off, the entire democratic left and anti-fascist movement, I mean the guy's not exactly short of enemies.

I only mention it because the fact he's signed a memorandum of understanding is something that takes place after someone's already established a relationship of some kind with the police. This letter is the legal basis of mr Lennon entering the witness protection scheme, whether it's because he's a grass or because he's genuinely in fear of his life, or quite possibly both, is almost immaterial.


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## john x (Apr 6, 2012)

Funnily enough, all this was discussed on Radio Four a couple of days ago! 

john x


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 6, 2012)

manny-p said:


> No he's defo got a handler and is defo an informant/state asset. To be fair I don't blame him if he goes into the witness protection scheme, I think he may have now realised how badly he has risked the well being of his family by acting like a complete cunt for all these years and has made more enemys than he can count.



Questions to Delroy also who appears to concur. Meant in sincerest terms not to catch you out. When you say "defo", what makes you so certain? Do you have hard evidence or is it supposition based on behaviour? If so, what specific behaviour. What would be the state's purpose? to neteutralise islamaphobia / the far right, to enhance it or transmute it? Surely and such strategy would risk backfiring. I would have thought Lennon too much of a loose cannon to deploy as an important reliable asset, but I'm open to ideas.


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## manny-p (Apr 6, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Questions to Delroy also who appears to concur. Meant in sincerest terms not to catch you out. When you say "defo", what makes you so certain? Do you have hard evidence or is it supposition based on behaviour? If so, what specific behaviour. What would be the state's purpose? to neteutralise islamaphobia / the far right, to enhance it or transmute it? Surely and such strategy would risk backfiring. I would have thought Lennon too much of a loose cannon to deploy as an important reliable asset, but I'm open to ideas.


 
It's a little theory of mine(not just me btw). The way he has dodged several charges and his behaviour also leads me to believe that it is most probably true. The document below also adds more credibility to the 'conspiracy theory' that he is co-operating with the filth. I admit I could be very wrong. But a betting man/woman would back me.


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Questions to Delroy also who appears to concur. Meant in sincerest terms not to catch you out. When you say "defo", what makes you so certain? Do you have hard evidence or is it supposition based on behaviour? If so, what specific behaviour. What would be the state's purpose? to neteutralise islamaphobia / the far right, to enhance it or transmute it? Surely and such strategy would risk backfiring. I would have thought Lennon too much of a loose cannon to deploy as an important reliable asset, but I'm open to ideas.


 
I'll go into more detail a bit later on but if you fancy it, take a look at some of the people who were in the EDL who've ended up with football banning orders shortly after Stephen Lennon's been arrested. One of the causes of the splits with the infidels was to do with accusation that Lennon was grassing up football hooligan mates of his whenever he got arrested, infact I think it was that which led to the accusations that the beating he got off some "asian youths" was actually football hooligans, who were aware of his grassing tendencies, and which is documented on this thread.

I wouldn't know how deep the co-operation goes, or what conditions have been attached to it, or whether Lennon's done it reluctantly or whether or not he's done it under duress, but I think it's pretty safe to conclude now that he's had some kind of relationship with the police for while. The rest is all speculative.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 6, 2012)

Interesting stuff guys. Ta. Will get back to you. Still skeptical but know full well that stranger things have happend and you have made good points.


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## The39thStep (Apr 6, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> A "Memorandum of understanding" is the legal basis that the police use when they want to get one of their informants to go into the witness protection scheme. They don't generally send them out to people unsolicited, i know of people who've had threats against them and the police haven't dealt with it by sending a "memorandum of understanding" through the post.
> 
> I also notice that Mr Lennon has had some other criminal charges against him dropped recently. I don't know the nature of the crimes but its interesting when coupled with this. Co-incidence?


 

This is simply an Osman warning ie where the Police have reason to believe that there is a threat to someone's safety, the memorandum  is  pretty much just the acknowledgement that the Osman warning has been served.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 6, 2012)

The "Assassination of Saint Tommy" hype is a time honoured ritual in EDL lore.

Anyhow, here's a piece about the British Freedoms shit attempt to get candidates for the locals since their alliance with the "biggest protest movement in the world"

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...itish-poltics-british-freedom-show-their-hand


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> This is simply an Osman warning ie where the Police have reason to believe that there is a threat to someone's safety, the memorandum is pretty much just the acknowledgement that the Osman warning has been served.


 
The thing is the memo is a legal document, it wouldn't be sent out of the blue through the post. The Osman warning must've come as a phone call or some kind of verbal acknowledgement of the threat, rather than via the memo itself. If they actually informed him he was under threat via the memorandum of understanding itself I'd be surprised!


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## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2012)

The first picture/doc _is the actual osman warning - _it says it clear as day at the top. The memorandum (the second pic) is, as said, the police response to his response (his comments on the osman letter). It's them essentially saying they've fulfilled and discharged their duties and they're jolly happy that mr lennon agrees. It wasn't sent out of the blue. This is just bog standard practice. You can find the Osman warning procedures for different forces on the net - this is bedforshires. He may well be some form of informer - but this is in no way evidence of it. You've misread what's going on here.


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The first picture/doc _is the actual osman warning - _it says it clear as day at the top. The memorandum (the second pic) is, as said, the police response to his response (his comments on the osman letter). It's them essentially saying they've fulfilled and discharged their duties and they're jolly happy that mr lennon agrees. It wasn't sent out of the blue. This is just bog standard practice. You can find the Osman warning procedures for different forces on the net - this is bedforshires. He may well be some form of informer - but this is in no way evidence of it. You've misread what's going on here.


 
Fair enough then. Do you think there's been any contact prior to the Osman letter going out? Only on his twitter Lennon was saying he'd been informed over the phone. He was also in police custody a few days before all this, where he got his charges against him dropped.

If he got sent the Osman letter first, which he replied too, then a few days later had a reply from the Police in the form of a memorandum of understanding, that would make a lot more sense. however checking the date on the pieces of paper they both say 5/4/12 ie yesterday. How can the "memorandum of understanding" be a reply from the police to his comments on the Osman letter when he only signed it yesterday?


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## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2012)

Looks to me liked asked him to come to the station to discuss it, then signed both forms at the same time at the end of the discussion in order to formalise things. In fact, that pretty much has to have what happened - the things cannot have been _sent _or how else could either of them be signing or witnessing it?


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## Ranbay (Apr 6, 2012)

If someone takes him out today he will only come back Sunday anyway.


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

That makes more sense than getting it through the post. Still weird though. It's probably just the phrase memorandum of understanding that's throwing me off, but it's still unlike anything else I've heard. Isn't the normal procedure to send a letter out informing of the threat, then it's upto the person involved whether or not they sign a further memorandum of understanding at a later date? I've got mates who've sent "Osman" letters, or been informed there's threats against them verbally by the police, but who've refused to sign any memorandum of understanding afterwards as it basically amounts to co-operation with the police. Listening to that Radio 4 documentary about witness protection it would appear that once you've signed a memorandum of understanding with the police they've basically got you over a barrell.


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Looks to me liked asked him to come to the station to discuss it, then signed both forms at the same time at the end of the discussion in order to formalise things. In fact, that pretty much has to have what happened - the things cannot have been _sent _or how else could either of them be signing or witnessing it?


 
That's definitely not always the case I know of at least 1 anti-fascist who's been given an "osman" letter (from about 2006) and it had no mention of any memorandum of understanding and I'm not sure but it might have even been sent through the post. This was GMP. Mind you I'm sure it'll differ from area to area, and from case to case.

I still think there's more to this than meets the eye, don't care if it makes me sound like that crank from the Obama birth certificate thread.


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## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2012)

A memorandum of understanding can cover many things - Chief Constables use them to make deals to share material resources for example, govt bodies the same - they have many uses. The fact that they're also used for witness schemes doesn't mean that _all uses_ of memorandum of understanding are therefore informer agreements - this example for example pretty clearly is not. You're going wrong in assuming that because MOU are used in informer cases all uses of MOU concern informer cases. If that's the case then all the chief constables are informers.


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

but it's the legal basis of putting someone into protective custody, and that's clearly what the letters are about. 

Like I said in the last post there may well be different uses for memorandum of understandings, that will differ from force to force, and that's probably what's throwing me off. In this instance I think we can be assured that the purpose of this memorandum of understanding is to try and coax mr Lennon into police protection.


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## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2012)

It's not 'clearly' what it's about. I don't think it is about that - you seem to be the only one who does.

Can we be assured of that? I'm not assured of that at all. I see a bog-standard police procedure being carried out - and the only evidence for your scenario seeming to be your misunderstanding of what a MOU actually is, and conflating a single specific use of it with general use.


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## manny-p (Apr 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's not 'clearly' what it's about. I don't think it is about that - you seem to be the only one who does.
> 
> Can we be assured of that? I'm not assured of that at all. I see a bog-standard police procedure being carried out - and the only evidence for your scenario seeming to be your misunderstanding of what a MOU actually is, and conflating a single specific use of it with general use.


When will you be assured of that? Considering the amount of state assets in the past in the far right it does not take too big a stretch of the imagination to think that 'Tommy' is feeding the filth info.


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## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2012)

He may well be - but the signing of a MOU after receiving an osman warning is no evidence of this whatsoever. And more to the point, what i'm not assured of is that this MOU is  'clearly' an attempt to 'to try and coax mr Lennon into police protection.'


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

Clearly, very clearly I'd say, when the police give you a legal document outlining that there's a threat to your life, one of the courses of action you can take is to enter the witness protection scheme. This requires you sign an agreement "MOU" with them outlining the initial terms of your police custody. Assuming you refuse to do this, the police would then make you sign a different "MOU" which says, pretty much, that the police have informed you of the dangers present, given you the option of police protection, and that they have discharged their legal duties with regards to you. That looks what what mr Lennon has done to me. I mean he's still here right?

Now what interests me about this is all the contextual stuff surrounding it. I've never heard of that kind of memorandum of understanding being used to _inform_ someone that they're in danger in the first place, MOU's are a legal step that comes much further down the line, usually at the point where an individual wants police protection, and aren't something you get given the moment the police inform you of a threat. Now I concede there's a small chance I might be wrong on that, and that different police forces do things in different ways, but it still strikes me as unusual and it doesn't tally with my first-hand experience of how these things work. I also concede fully that the phrase memorandum of understanding can be used in a lot of different contexts, but let be honest what other context do you think is meant by it in this instance? They aren't sending him a MOU so they can buy a fleet of tanning beds off him, they're doing it as a precursor to putting him in protective police custory. He may well have rejected that offer, but to suggest that these documents refer to anything but Stephen Lennon's safety is belligerent as fuck.

I also think that Lennon does have an outstanding relationship with the police, I've had that view for a long time before this letter came out, you could find plenty of things to suggest that on this very thread. Frankly, if MI5 and special branch etc aren't all over him like a rash then they're not doing their job right. I don't know what type of relationship, whether he's a full-blown grass or whether they just think they might have some influence via blackmailing him with various crimes he's committed or whatever, but nontheless I'm quite sure that some sort of relationship exists. 

I think the most you can draw from this is that Stephen Lennon blatantly does have some kind of rapport with the police, and that if he didn't have that relationship signing memorandums of understanding with the police over a nice cuppa and then sticking them on twitter for everyone to see wouldn't be happening. I can't say if he's a grass/informant on the basis of this, but I've been thinking along those sort of lines for a long while now (as have others) and this turn of events only adds to my suspicions.


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> He may well be - but the signing of a MOU after receiving an osman warning is no evidence of this whatsoever. And more to the point, what i'm not assured of is that this MOU is 'clearly' an attempt to 'to try and coax mr Lennon into police protection.'


 
No I think the whole thing is to coax him into police protection. If anything, signing a MOU that says "thanks for the offer, but no" is a sign that Lennon didn't want to go into police protection, despite the police's efforts.


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## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2012)

In that case i can only conclude that each chief constable is attempting to coax every other chief constable into protective security and the witness protection scheme - likewise with various govt agencies.

The MOU in this case *wasn't* 'used to inform' him of the threat - the osman warning was. The MOU was then used by the police to cover their backs, to get it in formal writing that they had discharged their responsibilities. Bog-standard process. No need for any secret squirrel stuff to explain it. And they're not sending him a MOU _at all, _he signed one in the station on his way out. That's it. Look at the content of the MOU - it doesn't even begin to do what you suggest - there's no pressure on him, nothing. It just says, _we've done our job now we have to do this stupid paperwork. _


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## john x (Apr 6, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> That's definitely not always the case I know of at least 1 anti-fascist who's been given an "osman" letter


 
In this case it is, though.

When the letter was first posted on the EDL Support page, it was prefaced by a post saying that Tommy has been asked to go down to the police station to discuss a threat to his safety and was asked to sign this letter.

john x


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## The39thStep (Apr 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The first picture/doc _is the actual osman warning - _it says it clear as day at the top. The memorandum (the second pic) is, as said, the police response to his response (his comments on the osman letter). It's them essentially saying they've fulfilled and discharged their duties and they're jolly happy that mr lennon agrees. It wasn't sent out of the blue. This is just bog standard practice. You can find the Osman warning procedures for different forces on the net - this is bedforshires. He may well be some form of informer - but this is in no way evidence of it. You've misread what's going on here.


 
Correct


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## intersol32 (Apr 6, 2012)

Just to interject with a slight EDL news update.

Looks like the Liverpool branch of the BNP have gone over to the NF. Quite a few of which are also (coincidentally) members of the EDL splinter group, the North West Infidels. The latter are now enthusiastically endorsing the NF on their web pages. Obviously didn't take them too long to show their true colours.

The Liverpool NF page is decidedly barmy, with plenty of old school racism and crackpot ideas about Zionists. Interestingly combined with an anti-capitalist slant (important to make at least one aspect of your ideology relevant to todays political climate I guess).


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## Delroy Booth (Apr 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> In that case i can only conclude that each chief constable is attempting to coax every other chief constable into protective security and the witness protection scheme - likewise with various govt agencies.


 
Oh come on don't be so asinine I'm not trying to say that literally _all_ memorandum of understandings are used soley for the purpose of witness protection and you know it. I'm saying that _in this instance_ it would appear to be part of an attempt by the police to put mr Lennon in protective custody. That much is blatant. Just read the content of the first Osman letter. The second one seems to be the point at which Lennon rejects their offer of protective custody, and signs an MOU that covers the police's arse incase he gets popped. We don't know the details, like what other terms he might've been subject to had he gone into police protection, but wouldn't it be a logical conlcusion to draw from these set of facts that the police want Lennon to go into their custody?

I'm not trying to make this out to be some cloak and dagger shit, frankly at this point I'd be more surprised if Lennon _didn't_ have some kind of relationship with the police, it's pretty much what you'd expect them to do with a man who's a) in danger of his life and b) a state assett. All I'm interested in is putting this event into the context of Lennon's relationship with the police, that's all. And I think it does point towards the idea that Lennon's got a long history with the police, the idea they'd just invite him down the station and sort all this out over a cuppa before letting him out to put all the documents on twitter strikes me as being very unusual, only because in various points of my life I've known people who've signed similar kinds of agreements (entering police custody to escape a violent spouse for example) with the police and in general it's a very long, drawn out process, not something that happens in one afternoon, _unless_ you've already got a handler and a longstanding relationship with the police in the first place. That's why I mentioned the fact he's just had a load of charges against him dropped. How did that happen without some kind of prior relationship with the police?

Now I've gone to lengths to say that it might very well be different in bedfordshire, the police there might do things differently, there might be a hundred and one reasons for these things that I've not considered or am not aware of that can explain away some of these aspects, and if that turns out to be the case then fine.



butchersapron said:


> The MOU in this case *wasn't* 'used to inform' him of the threat - the osman warning was. The MOU was then used by the police to cover their backs, to get it in formal writing that they had discharged their responsibilities. Bog-standard process. No need for any secret squirrel stuff to explain it. And they're not sending him a MOU _at all, _he signed one in the station on his way out. That's it. Look at the content of the MOU - it doesn't even begin to do what you suggest - there's no pressure on him, nothing. It just says, _we've done our job now we have to do this stupid paperwork. _


 
I have no argument with the bulk of that, infact I'm not entirely sure why we're arguing, but I disagree on one aspect. I think it does lend weight to the theory he's an informer, or at very least had a mutually productive relationship with the police prior to this, although I've been trying point out right from the start this is purely speculative. The "bog-standard process" you refer to is the exact same bog standard process that police informants go through when the police want to take them into protective custody. Coupled with the fact there are longstanding accusations, even from people on his own side who were once his comrades, against him for being a grass it's definitely quite significant. He even said on that "The Big Question" thing last week there were neo-nazi's after him. If that's true then surely being an informant would be the basis of that particular grudge.

He may well have rejected the offer of police protection, but that doesn't mean they haven't made it to him. The question I'm trying to answer is whether or not they made that offer because they're just doing their job, or whether they've got another stake in it, like trying to protect one of their assetts? I'm not in a position to answer this question, no-one here is. It'll be interesting to see where it goes now though.

Seriously though butchers, on a personal note, I'm not the sort of person who's going to dig his heels in and argue a point just for the sake of it, when I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up and incorporate whatever useful criticism I get into my thinking. And if you'll allow me the courtesy of a sly dig, I don't spend nearly as much time on here arguing the toss and getting into massive circular dead-end arguments as you do, and I have no desire to either. Dante would've created a special circle of hell for internet message-board micro-politics had he been around to see it. This place some some of the pettiest and weirdest fueds I've ever seen on a message board outside Something Awful and I just want no part of that, so I try and keep my contributions infrequent to avoid that kind of shit.

EDIT: Actually tell a lie the person involved has to request to be taken into police protection, rather than the police offering it to you straight up. I think they were coaxing him into doing it by getting him to come down the station and scare him with some stories about people being out to kill him. Just wanted to point that out.


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## machine cat (Apr 9, 2012)

Just in case you didn't know where the donations were going:


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## Ranbay (Apr 9, 2012)

Wonder where they got that idea?

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/can-you-spare-price-pint-your-country


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## Ranbay (Apr 13, 2012)

Tommy has had enough of people ripping the piss on Twatter....


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

Yaxley-Lennon - never the sharpest tool in the box - took to twitter this morning to complain that the image on the twitter login page with a mosque in the background was evidence of "creeping sharia". The whole of twitter now appears to be taking the piss out of him using the hashtag #creepingsharia

Loltastic - https://twitter.com/#!/search/#creepingsharia


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## Ranbay (Apr 16, 2012)

They best thing about it is that the picture is the Taj Mahal......


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## xes (Apr 16, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yaxley-Lennon - never the sharpest tool in the box - took to twitter this morning to complain that the image on the twitter login page with a mosque in the background was evidence of "creeping sharia". The whole of twitter now appears to be taking the piss out of him using the hashtag #creepingsharia
> 
> Loltastic - https://twitter.com/#!/search/#creepingsharia


That is fucking awesome 



> Tried to get into the local pub at 8 this morning and was turned away *#**creepingsharia*


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They best thing about it is that the picture is the Taj Mahal......


Yeah I just went to look at the pic myself and noticed that - classic fail!


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

> alcohol is not available at my daughter's primary school #creepingsharia





> got on the 36 bus and realised it's heading east #creepingsharia





> It started raining and all these women started covering their heads... *#**creepingsharia*





> Just found a copy of Cat Stevens' best hits on my iTunes. *#**creepingsharia*


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## Ranbay (Apr 16, 2012)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...binson-twitter-hash-tag_n_1427845.html?ref=tw


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## albionism (Apr 17, 2012)




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## peterkro (Apr 17, 2012)

That twitter feed has cheered me up significantly."a farmer just knocked on the door looking for 'is lamb" indeed.


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## Ranbay (Apr 17, 2012)

Todays EDL demo is to deport Abu Qatada

http://yfrog.com/h89uycvj


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 17, 2012)

^^^Embedded for you Bob. The EDL massive turn up for the march:


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 17, 2012)

The biggest protest movement in the world.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2012)

He actually got in the pen himself.


----------



## intersol32 (Apr 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> He actually got in the pen himself.


 
The council were obviously a bit more optimistic about the turnout...providing a pen for what looks to be around 20 people.


----------



## manny-p (Apr 17, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> The council were obviously a bit more optimistic about the turnout...providing a pen for what looks to be around 20 people.


Don't you mean 20 patriots?


----------



## intersol32 (Apr 17, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> ^^^Embedded for you Bob. The EDL massive turn up for the march:


 
He should also learn not to use water based inks on his shitty EDL flag.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 17, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> ^^^Embedded for you Bob. The EDL massive turn up for the march:


 
He's tweeting on his phone - "this pen faces east towards Mecca #creepingsharia"

This is the real reason why more patriots didn't come - their brave comrade went on ahead of them and warned them of the subliminal Muslamic indoctrination they'd face if they attended.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Apr 19, 2012)

Snowy and other North West Infidels members arrested

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=699&catid=36&Itemid=269


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 19, 2012)

About time, they where far worse than the EDL for the shit they posted online.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 19, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17771768


----------



## john x (Apr 19, 2012)

What these clowns don't realise is that posting stuff on public forums encouraging others to attack people for their race or religion is going to land them in jail in the present climate.

john x


----------



## Fingers (Apr 19, 2012)

Oh dear, they really really did think they were invincible.  Irony is they were arrested by counter terrorism police


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 19, 2012)

Snowy not nicked, just had his house searched and stuff....


----------



## manny-p (Apr 19, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Snowy not nicked, just had his house searched and stuff....


Hope not hate are hinting that he is the 'high profile police informant'.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 19, 2012)

And they would of course know all about this being privvy to police records of infornmants. Where anyway?


----------



## intersol32 (Apr 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> And they would of course know all about this being privvy to police records of infornmants. Where anyway?


 
"Those arrested include a 43-year-old in North Tyneside, a 46-year-old in County Durham, an 18-year-man in Birkenhead, Merseyside, a 21-year-old in Barnsley, South Yorkshire, and a 56-year-old Holloway, London. Previous reports suggested the men being held were involved in a splinter group of the English Defence League known as the North West Infidels."

I don't think these characters exactly care about the arrests or searches. You've got to be one absolute melon to think that posting what they did wasn't going to get their collars felt, especially with all the media stories about folks being lifted for twitter comments that appear almost daily. Instead I'd suggest that in their blinkered, delusional world being arrested probably increases their profile (as well as massaging their fevered egos - which the far right certainly abounds with). It also confirms their view that they're in some way a massive threat to the status quo.

Interesting though, that just at the juncture where the NWI (and the local BNP branch) have agreed to go over to the NF, a handful of connected nutjobs present themselves as almost willing martyrs for arrest.

It certainly wouldn't be too difficult to see how an informer or two could create these problems.

It strikes me as similar in a sense, to when the Sargents took over Blood and Honour, then came out with an issue of the magazine that guaranteed they'd all get busted.


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 19, 2012)

Sounds like LiverAF were involved in a scuffle. Think they had a demo today.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Apr 19, 2012)

All a bit handbags really - 20 people waving NF flags and Union Jacks appeared, three ran towards LiverAF who stood their ground, couple of punches thrown, the three fash run off at top speed and then police get inbetween two groups and that was that really


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Apr 19, 2012)

a few photos here >


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 19, 2012)

nice 14 words flag.....


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Apr 19, 2012)

and a blog post here >


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 19, 2012)

http://libcom.org/blog/bad-day-fascists-19042012


----------



## intersol32 (Apr 19, 2012)

Well, fair play to LiverAF for standing their ground at least. Despite my own concerns and reservations regarding this 'mass protest' type strategy the NF were still made to look pretty pathetic.


----------



## manny-p (Apr 20, 2012)

intersol32 said:


> Well, fair play to LiverAF for standing their ground at least. Despite my own concerns and reservations regarding this 'mass protest' type strategy the NF were still made to look pretty pathetic.


From the blog linked on post- #8085


> I left tonight feeling positive about the more militant levels of anti-fascism, we actively chased the fash instead of standing and chanting 'off our streets'. We broke police lines, instead of negotiating with police. When we heard fash were heading our way we mobilised to front them off, instead of leaving in the other direction. I was also really impressed by the numbers of people showing support at SAS to the arrested comrade, rather than leaving and going home.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Apr 20, 2012)

Keep Brighton Fascist Free
This morning the leader of the English Defence League ('Tommy Robinson') was quoted on BBC Sussex as saying EDL members will be coming to Brighton this weekend.
We need as many people as possible on the streets from 11am on Sunday 22nd to show them they aren't welcome.
Together we'll drown out their message of hate.

11am Sunday 22nd April
Queens Rd, Brighton


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 20, 2012)

Start a thread in protest forum too. Might get missed by people who don't regularly read this thread.


----------



## Luther Blissett (Apr 21, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 22, 2012)

re: brighton MfE march today. they say 'we aint no racists nor nuffink' and then from a stormfront poster who is attending:  
'I'm also meeting up with an old ex-British Movement friend, and some League of St George and England First Party supporters in Brighton tomorrow'
hmmm ...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> re: brighton MfE march today. they say 'we aint no racists nor nuffink' and then from a stormfront poster who is attending:
> 'I'm also meeting up with an old ex-British Movement friend, and some League of St George and England First Party supporters in Brighton tomorrow'
> hmmm ...


 
Lots of opposition today. Also from locals who wouldn't otherwise come out to oppose such groups. Heading off in half hour.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 22, 2012)

from 'Rosa.' Latest on Brighton demo.
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2012)

Fantastic antifa turnout today! Respect to everyone. Estimated guess, well over 1000 antifa & about 80 fash. Fash were well & truly out numbered. Shame plod didn't fuck off & leave them in Victoria Gardens once they'd reached it. afaik no antifa arrests, but plod did pepper spray at least four on Queens Road when we blocked it. Horse power took over.

A few photos of the day - http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrbishie/sets/72157629874515537/


----------



## audiotech (Apr 23, 2012)

Police get a truncheon happy in Brighton:


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 23, 2012)

marching for england - not via the dentists!


----------



## Corax (Apr 23, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Police get a truncheon happy in Brighton:



This tactic of forcing a line back by rushing it from nowhere and batoning the fuck out of everyone in reach - do we have a name for it?

Something that struck me about the kettling furore was that the media had an nice vivid sexy term to sum up the practice, and articles and questions in the House could all be hung on that.

Violently rushing a line of protesters that aren't doing anything particular wrong, purely because they've decided that they want them to not be there, seems to me to be a distinct tactic.  It's one that shouldn't be accepted.  For it to be challenged, it needs a name.


----------



## john x (Apr 23, 2012)

Corax said:


> For it to be challenged, it needs a name.


 
I think the police have been calling it a mounted charge for a while now.

john x


----------



## Corax (Apr 23, 2012)

john x said:


> I think the police have been calling it a mounted charge for a while now.
> 
> john x


But they're not mounted...


----------



## manny-p (Apr 23, 2012)

Corax said:


> But they're not mounted...


a baton charge


----------



## Corax (Apr 23, 2012)

manny-p said:


> a baton charge


Not specific enough.

"Baton charge" is just the act itself.  What's seen in that video is the use of a baton charge on a line of protesters, not because they are a threat to police or other people, but just because they want them to retreat and can't be arsed to force that slowly and gradually.  In media terms "baton charge" conjures up images of manly policemen bravely confronting a violent anarchist army in order to preserve the peace and safety of ordinary law-abiding citizens.  The reality of how it's used in circumstances like this requires a new name if it's ever going to be challenged in the press and popular perception.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 23, 2012)

A new name such as 'assault', perhaps?


----------



## Corax (Apr 23, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> A new name such as 'assault', perhaps?


You're missing the point by several miles.

The "kettle" had questions asked in the House of Commons. The tactic was discussed in tabloids.


----------



## starfish (Apr 23, 2012)

Corax said:


> Not specific enough.
> 
> "Baton charge" is just the act itself. What's seen in that video is the use of a baton charge on a line of protesters, not because they are a threat to police or other people, but just because they want them to retreat and can't be arsed to force that slowly and gradually. In media terms "baton charge" conjures up images of manly policemen bravely confronting a violent anarchist army in order to preserve the peace and safety of ordinary law-abiding citizens. The reality of how it's used in circumstances like this requires a new name if it's ever going to be challenged in the press and popular perception.


 
They did similar to about 15 of us at the EDL/ENA march the other year. 7ft (it seemed) copper gave ms starfish a bit of a push. Was a bit pissed off i have to say. Missed this one unfortunately, it sounded like fun.


----------



## Corax (Apr 23, 2012)

starfish said:


> They did similar to about 15 of us at the EDL/ENA march the other year. 7ft (it seemed) copper gave ms starfish a bit of a push. Was a bit pissed off i have to say. Missed this one unfortunately, it sounded like fun.


It's standard.  But "people" don't know/believe that.


----------



## Fingers (Apr 23, 2012)

Oh dear. one EDLer has managed to get the Daily Fail outraged with his bomb threat capers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...upporter-allegedly-wrote-Asians-Facebook.html


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 24, 2012)

Here's a video of the MFe idiots creeping ever so slowly thru a Gauntlet of abuse.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 24, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Oh dear. one EDLer has managed to get the Daily Fail outraged with his bomb threat capers
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...upporter-allegedly-wrote-Asians-Facebook.html


 
I notice they cut the picture so you can't see Tommy Robinson next to him


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 24, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...me-deputy-leader-of-the-british-freedom-party

*Exclusive: Tommy Robinson to be appointed Deputy Leader of the British Freedom Party*


----------



## Fingers (Apr 24, 2012)

double post


----------



## cantsin (Apr 24, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Here's a video of the MFe idiots creeping ever so slowly thru a Gauntlet of abuse.




hats off to all involved, that looks like a pretty decent turn out - I know MFE aren't  "nazis" as the loudhailer brigade were proclaiming, and the young Antifa's can probably get a bit pantomine at times , but anyone who knows anything about MFE / Casuals United knows where they're coming from, and where they would go when the chips are down, so it's good to see such a spread of locals deciding how they were going to react to the march, and doing it.


----------



## john x (Apr 24, 2012)

Looks like Tommy has finally got into bed with the British Freedom Party.

That should piss off a good number of their supporters, the vast majority of them who express an opinion being BNP voters! 

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...me-deputy-leader-of-the-british-freedom-party

john x


----------



## BlackArab (Apr 24, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> http://libcom.org/blog/bad-day-fascists-19042012


 
6'00 on the video, Ben Mitchell from Eastenders shows up


----------



## manny-p (Apr 25, 2012)

BlackArab said:


> 6'00 on the video, Ben Mitchell from Eastenders shows up


Lol!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 25, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/9dsj9e


----------



## john x (Apr 26, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/9dsj9e


 
Does anyone ever donate to these scams?

john x


----------



## bignose1 (Apr 26, 2012)

manny-p said:


> a baton charge


I was helping prepare dinner at my sons last weekend and his mum says 'do the carrots....baton style'(in a french accent)... made me laff


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 26, 2012)

Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm

http://britishfreedom.org/ need £2200 Tommy needs £2250


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2012)

his chang habit reaches epic proportions


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 26, 2012)

It's just funny that he will become Deputy Leader of the BFP who need 2.2k and he's asking for 2.2k for radio euipment for the new demo.....  Hmmmmmmmm

why they need radios when they will have 2-3 cops each to look after them i have no idea>?


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Apr 27, 2012)

BlackArab said:


> 6'00 on the video, Ben Mitchell from Eastenders shows up


 
also known as 'Baby Fash'


----------



## sunny jim (Apr 27, 2012)

After getting humiliated last Sunday in Brighton, the fash are making plans to come back for another humiliation.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=319387688134322&set=o.220189534685371&type=1&theater


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 28, 2012)

Luton Demo






> The muster points will be:
> 
> Edge Nightclub, Park Street
> The Chequers, Park Street
> ...


 
Opening times will be 08.30


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2012)

SWP stall attacked in lewisham apparently.


----------



## manny-p (Apr 28, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> SWP stall attacked in lewisham apparently.


Any more info on that butchers?


----------



## peterkro (Apr 28, 2012)

All I can find is a tweet from SolFed,one person hospitalised with head wound.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 28, 2012)

https://twitter.com/#!/Official_EDL

I'm blocked but seen a shot of them saying something.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Any more info on that butchers?


Afraid not, will pass on what i get.


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 28, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Afraid not, will pass on what i get.


 
I've heard an unconfirmed report that two SWP had to go to hospital.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 28, 2012)

A report from someone who states they were there during the attack in Lewisham Apparently, 'two "pensioners" were attacked and "head butted", one who has gone to hospital but is basically ok - nasty black eye, etc. The other man, a "Jewish pensioner" is also ok - a bleeding nose but that is all.'​


----------



## Red Storm (Apr 28, 2012)

audiotech said:


> A report from someone who states they were there during the attack in Lewisham Apparently, 'two "pensioners" were attacked and "head butted", one who has gone to hospital but is basically ok - nasty black eye, etc. The other man, a "Jewish pensioner" is also ok - a bleeding nose but that is all.'​


 
I thought these attacks were going to increase when I first started hearing of them around a year ago. There was a number in the north west mill towns which the SWP weren't reporting. 

Doesn't look like they are on the increase though, they still seem isolated.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Apr 28, 2012)

It'd be worth finding out if it was a premeditated attack, or whether some random EDL knucklehead has just come by two pensioners on a stall and couldn't help himself.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 28, 2012)

Pure speculation, but some are suggesting a "revenge attack" linked to events at the Brighton MfE at the weekend.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 28, 2012)

There is a lot of them who want revenge for Brighton.....


----------



## audiotech (Apr 28, 2012)

One huge difference between these two events that's overlooked by these numpties. No pensioners were head-butted and hospitalised in Brighton by the UAF, or any other anti-fascists.


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 28, 2012)

Another thing they've overlooked... we outnumber them, we're brighter than them and we aren't cowards.


----------



## john x (Apr 29, 2012)

Are we sure this was the EDL and not the BNP?

john x


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 29, 2012)

Might have been PD


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 29, 2012)

they have been trying to put a brave face on following the brighton humiliation and cannot accept that they were massively outnumbered and were caught on camera shitting themsleves. as usual, they would never have marched if they hadnt been covered in plod. our 'rosa' said 'it was the most militant do i  have been on for years and the fash were terrified. they came round the corner and dropped their breakfasts.' (yuk). the threats of flash demos and jubilee rematch show how embararssed they are.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 29, 2012)

it just gets worse. desperate infidels climb up another building to get in local paper to show other blokes in pub.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/04/495521.html?c=on#comments
one of the commentators calls them 'fantsay fash.' perfect!


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 29, 2012)

im surprised at how often these thick fuckers get jailed for racist behaviour.
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/i...-who-attacked-kingston-mosque-are-jailed.html
also how they deny everything and do not stand by their politics. which is cowadice.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 29, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Pure speculation, but some are suggesting a "revenge attack" linked to events at the Brighton MfE at the weekend.


 
techy! they were righteously humiliated in brighton (sez our 'rosa') and are furious about it. they were exposed as being weak and having to completely rely on plod to march and worse they have been shown as shitting themselves - see the various pix -  and so soft targets like paper sales are all they can do in revenge. brighton exposed them as untermensch and dented their egos very very badly. poor weans!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 29, 2012)

*Britain's far right to focus on anti-Islamic policy*


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/28/britain-far-right-anti-islamic


----------



## HST (Apr 29, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> It'd be worth finding out if it was a premeditated attack, or whether some random EDL knucklehead has just come by two pensioners on a stall and couldn't help himself.


Not random. http://transpont.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/fascist-attack-in-lewisham-today.html


----------



## audiotech (Apr 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> techy! they were righteously humiliated in brighton (sez our 'rosa') and are furious about it. they were exposed as being weak and having to completely rely on plod to march and worse they have been shown as shitting themselves - see the various pix - and so soft targets like paper sales are all they can do in revenge. brighton exposed them as untermensch and dented their egos very very badly. poor weans!


 
I don't disagree with your comments quoted above, however, what I posted at the time, not long after the event and when info was pretty scant, it was indeed speculation.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 1, 2012)

no worries feller! hope yr good.


----------



## Ranbay (May 1, 2012)




----------



## treelover (May 1, 2012)

Is this the second time he has been attacked?, last time was December of last year..

or a reposting?


----------



## Ranbay (May 1, 2012)

He always gets attacked before a big demo, or someone tries to shoot Kev Carroll, or 30 Mulsims with baseball bats jump out of a car at Gurmit Singh..... have no idea why.


----------



## Ranbay (May 1, 2012)




----------



## john x (May 1, 2012)

Both the NF and BNP Mayoral candidates for Liverpool arrested in the last 24 hours.

Not a good day for the far-right on Merseyside! 

john x


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 1, 2012)

john x said:


> Both the NF and BNP Mayoral candidates for Liverpool arrested in the last 24 hours.
> 
> Not a good day for the far-right on Merseyside!
> 
> john x


 

"on suspicion of making false statements and faking signatures on nomination election papers"

Couldn't get anyone to nominate him. No one likes him.


----------



## john x (May 1, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Couldn't get anyone to nominate him. No one likes him.


 
As far as I know, you need 30 signatures to stand for mayor. Is there not even 30 BNP members in Liverpool area?

Pretty shit show if you ask me! 

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (May 1, 2012)

john you got links for that above?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 1, 2012)

mr tommy's been back down to claire's accessories for another pot of 'yaxley blue' eye shadow.


----------



## john x (May 1, 2012)

Never mind that!

He has completely lost the plot now and is threatening to go to Pakistan to protest against persecution of Xtians.

Good luck with that, Tommy! 

john x


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 1, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> john you got links for that above?


 

It's all over the front page of the liverpool echo and there's something about it on Liverpool Antifascists. The people who did sign to nominate him aren't happy as he didn't tell them who he was.

_"The ECHO spoke to eight of the 28  people whose signatures are on his   nomination form. Of those, three said  they definitely did not know they were  signing for the BNP, while a fourth was  adamant the signature on the form was not theirs"._

​


----------



## gawkrodger (May 1, 2012)

Seems rare for the OB to give a shit about this - when we came across the same by the BNP about 6-7 years back they couldn't give a shit


----------



## fiannanahalba (May 2, 2012)

gawkrodger said:


> Seems rare for the OB to give a shit about this - when we came across the same by the BNP about 6-7 years back they couldn't give a shit


Liverpools top cop no doubt been influenced by Labour to act where possible against the local fash. Tierney got arrested because he - as usual- refused to comply with cops instructions.


----------



## claphamboy (May 2, 2012)

john x said:


> As far as I know, you need 30 signatures to stand for mayor. Is there not even 30 BNP members in Liverpool area?
> 
> Pretty shit show if you ask me!
> 
> john x


 


malatesta32 said:


> john you got links for that above?


 
Re-the BNP guy, see THIS POST, on the BNP thread, it covers the details, including the fact that he's a fucking Freeman too.


----------



## Ranbay (May 3, 2012)

BFP drop No class A policy now Tommy has joined..... lol

http://britishfreedom.org/about/20-point-plan/


----------



## The39thStep (May 3, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> BFP drop No class A policy now Tommy has joined..... lol
> 
> http://britishfreedom.org/about/20-point-plan/


 
where was the No Class A version?

this bit is good though........


> Allow pubs the freedom of operating as smoking or non-smoking establishments.


----------



## Ranbay (May 3, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> where was the No Class A version?
> 
> this bit is good though........


 
yeah point 17 if i recall was

17: zero tollerance on Class A Drugs.

I had spoken to them and asked what this meant, but they would not reply.


----------



## The39thStep (May 3, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah point 17 if i recall was
> 
> 17: zero tollerance on Class A Drugs.
> 
> I had spoken to them and asked what this meant, but they would not reply.


Its a close call between that and the pub thing and perhaps they thought that 20 sounded better than  a 21 point programme . Personally I quite like the  idea of 21 points.


----------



## butchersapron (May 3, 2012)

25 would probably be more historically apt.


----------



## The39thStep (May 3, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (May 3, 2012)

So anyway that aside This Saturday is the 3rd BIG ONE, the Luton home coming....

how many we going to see for the fastest shrinking street movement? ( mostly as over 300 have been nicked or banged up since they started this cursade )

any guess? mine ins 500-700 tops


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 3, 2012)

50


----------



## john x (May 4, 2012)

First British Freedom Party result in.

87 votes and lost deposit! 

john x


----------



## john x (May 4, 2012)

British Freedom Party in Liverpool results in.

Maximum 78 votes minimum 17 votes and all lost their deposits!

Looks like you backed a winner Tommy! 

john x


----------



## DrRingDing (May 4, 2012)

Let's hope there's further humiliation tomorrow.


----------



## Ranbay (May 4, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/722-bfp-election-results


----------



## john x (May 5, 2012)

Looks like the cops may have got the EDL who attacked the two SWP last week!

https://twitter.com/#!/EDLNewsXtra/status/198490981400723457

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2012)

the edl are seriously depleted. the electoral thing for BF was a total humiliation. will mr tommy stand up today and state his intentions with the fluffies after it? plod are going to be all over them today and if it kicks off the fluffies will be tarnished by association. what seemed like a good idea for the fluffies is actually going to damage them as the EDL cannot police themselves as seen on countless occasions.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2012)

when you assault someone dont gloat about it on t'internet. it was great how the casuals were in denial for the suspected perpetrators despite the fact of all the screengrabs of i think 'donna millwall lion' (apparently a reference to a soccer team) boasting about it. eejits.


----------



## Ranbay (May 5, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/9hisrb

Demo looks like it's going to be massive and everyone will get the pint across.... sorry i mean point...

fuck it anyway im off to Brizzle Zoo with baby


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2012)

The 'hard line minority' pointing out the flaws of another 'hard line minority'  

http://twitpic.com/9ei7hr


----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2012)

EDL coaches getting pulled and warning letters handing out.
no booze between 12-5!
http://twitpic.com/9hj985
at least thatll give em time to sober up from their early morning stellas!


----------



## manny-p (May 5, 2012)

Hope they get the shit kicked out of them today.


----------



## Sweet FA (May 5, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2012)

mr tommy doing press clutching a plastic pint pot. for the newly elected deputy chairman of the fluffy British Freedom being surrounded by a bunch of pissed soccer fans is going to be political gold!


----------



## Sweet FA (May 5, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2012)

malatesta on luton
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2012)

and its gone off! after heavy drinknig and fireworks being thrown, EDL cant help themselves. live luton blog here:
http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/luton-live-chat
eejits.


----------



## Sweet FA (May 5, 2012)

Police misdirected EDL coach to Wardown Park (rally point for counter demo)


----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2012)

using the same old excuses for a poorly turned out 'national' demo:
'1500 EDL, some coaches turned away by the police'
and
'the cost of travel and the weather contributes to low turn out as well for these protests .'
or a sense of boredom and futility ?
'Apparently there are 20 EDL coaches turned away by police. That is 1000 people.'


----------



## john x (May 5, 2012)

It's looking like there were about 750-800 EDL there which is piss-poor for a national demo on their third anniversary. Even Tommy's fake attack couldn't bump up the numbers.

I said on here months ago on that if they couldn't get 1000 to Luton for the 'big one, then they really should give up. 

John x


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 5, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/9hm9i9

LOL


----------



## The Prestonian (May 5, 2012)

http://yfrog.com/user/LutonNewsSally/photos. Few pictures of the EDL demo. Very small, I'd sau about 500.


----------



## Ranbay (May 5, 2012)

Well done to the 65 million people who did something else today


----------



## Red Storm (May 5, 2012)

You know the EDL are no longer significant when U75 posters don't even care about a national march in Luton.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 5, 2012)

Why is it a national march? Surely a national march would involve marching in a few major cities simutaneously? You know, national as in covering the nation.


----------



## Red Storm (May 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Why is it a national march? Surely a national march would involve marching in a few major cities simutaneously? You know, national as in covering the nation.


 
They call em national marches to mean its a national call out rather than regional.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 5, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> They call em national marches to mean its a national call out rather than regional.



It all sounds very grand. Did they march in some kind of disciplined formation?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> It all sounds very grand. Did they march in some kind of disciplined formation?


 
Sadly no, they started beating each other up again. Stella at 7am, bad combo


----------



## Citizen66 (May 5, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Sadly no, they started beating each other up again. Stella at 7am, bad combo



Are they still banging on about Evil Islam or has it completely descended into a macho drinking club with a bit of public chest beating?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 5, 2012)

It's always been the latter, where you been?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 5, 2012)

Yeah, not following it extensively but thought they'd at least pretend they still had some kind of purpose.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 5, 2012)

The Eejit Drunken Louts.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 5, 2012)

Get pissed on the bus before midday, & then fight amongst themselves. You saying that's not a purpose? eh? eh?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 5, 2012)

It's perfect. I don't know why anyone bothers opposing them if they're doing it perfectly well themselves.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 5, 2012)

Who's to bottle the women & children?!


----------



## DrRingDing (May 5, 2012)

Back from Luton, with nothing to report.


----------



## Inigo Montoya (May 5, 2012)

Daily Mail, Press Assoc. etc. saying 3,000 EDL:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/uk...H0N4q6smWm7zcJwXg?docId=N0117941336242113377A

Hope Not Hate saying 1,000:

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1881/not-everyone-is-edl-happy

That's a big difference. Anyone have any final figures?


----------



## Ranbay (May 5, 2012)

Police say upto 3000

http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/about_us/news/news_2012/may/120505_-_operation_jersey_-_a.aspx



> The protestors themselves are thought to have numbered possibly up to 3000 for the EDL and around 1000 ‘We are Luton’ although these are not confirmed.


 
looking at videos i would say 1800-2000 easy, maybe 2500 at max

Far more than reported and what i thought would go ....... but still after 3 years, there was more than likely more people at Bristol Zoo today.


----------



## audiotech (May 5, 2012)

The Bristol SWP student wing made an appearance:







...and others.


----------



## Red Storm (May 5, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Police say upto 3000
> 
> http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/about_us/news/news_2012/may/120505_-_operation_jersey_-_a.aspx
> 
> ...


 
2000!

I'm shocked they got a turn out that high.


----------



## Ranbay (May 5, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> 2000!
> 
> I'm shocked they got a turn out that high.


 


check this video.... it's over 1500 easy...


----------



## malatesta32 (May 6, 2012)

new luton demo report with pix!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Red Storm (May 6, 2012)

http://antifascistaction.tumblr.com/

Didn't know where to put this but there are some good anti-fascist pics and videos on there.


----------



## The39thStep (May 6, 2012)

john x said:


> It's looking like there were about 750-800 EDL there which is piss-poor for a national demo on their third anniversary. Even Tommy's fake attack couldn't bump up the numbers.
> 
> I said on here months ago on that if they couldn't get 1000 to Luton for the 'big one, then they really should give up.
> 
> John x


 
Any more predictions?


----------



## The39thStep (May 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Police say upto 3000
> 
> http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/about_us/news/news_2012/may/120505_-_operation_jersey_-_a.aspx
> 
> ...


 
Perhaps you could start a thread on attendances at Bristol Zoo then?


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Perhaps you could start a thread on attendances at Bristol Zoo then?


 
yeah


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 6, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> 2000!
> 
> I'm shocked they got a turn out that high.


 
You're only shocked because the observable trend for EDL demo's over the last 6 months has been ever dwindling attendances at their demos, and this demo didn't go that way. The fact that in Luton, the EDL's stronghold, it's still capable of pulling in over a thousand members shouldn't really surprise anyone. The most interesting thing is that since the last "big one" in Luton they haven't grown at all, indeed just looking at comparisons between the last Luton "homecoming" march and this one, this one isn't quite as big, although still numbering in the region of a couple of thousand boneheads.

Also, unlike that demonstration, there was a large anti-fascist mobilisation this time numbering well over 1,000 people, so whilst the EDL are, at best, stagnating, the anti's in Luton are getting more organized and not just waiting for the EDL to fracture and dissipate like they have elsewhere in the country, which is wise because in Luton the EDL is likely to have more staying power than in other parts of the country.

Also worth pointing out that there was still the usual amount of moaning and complaining and begging for people to make up the numbers on coaches that were underbooked from the remaining northern divisions. It may well be that the EDL are retreating into Luton and other area's of the south, rather than being able to keep a properly national organization intact.


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> check this video.... it's over 1500 easy...




You're having a laugh, aren't you?. About 600 at most in that video.Takes them no time at all to walk past.

Clearly, we need the bloke with the photoshop coloured dots to get on the case and put a mark on each of the beerguts who wobbled along that route. He can use the new photoshop add-on called puke coloured dots.


----------



## john x (May 6, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Clearly, we need the bloke with the photoshop coloured dots to get on the case and put a mark on each of the beerguts who wobbled along that route. He can use the new photoshop add-on called puke coloured dots.


 
The photoshop coloured dots bloke made it about 870.

john x


----------



## song_lyric (May 7, 2012)

they don't stand in elections - do they? not sure what they could possibly achieve then [bar annoying and frightening people], though maybe someone could correct me?


----------



## The39thStep (May 7, 2012)

song_lyric said:


> they don't stand in elections - do they? not sure what they could possibly achieve then [bar annoying and frightening people], though maybe someone could correct me?


 
they have achieved 274 pages of posts on here nearly as much as some drug topics


----------



## claphamboy (May 7, 2012)

song_lyric said:


> they don't stand in elections - do they? not sure what they could possibly achieve then [bar annoying and frightening people], though maybe someone could correct me?


 
Well as their leader is now also deputy leader (or deputy Chairman, deputy twat or whatever) of the British Freedom Party, there's a direct link between the two, and it would not be unreasonable to view the BFP as the political wing of the EDL now.

Not that I am in suggesting the BFP is in anyway any sort of political threat. 

The point is, however, that membership and/or involvement of all these far-right groups have a habit of being somewhat interchangeable, so each & everyone is worth keeping an eye on, because you never know if one could end-up becoming a serious political threat.


----------



## bignose1 (May 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> new luton demo report with pix!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


Didnt know Frank skinner was EDL(see Luton part2)


----------



## bignose1 (May 7, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Perhaps you could start a thread on attendances at Bristol Zoo then?


No need for zoocasm


----------



## Citizen66 (May 7, 2012)

I see the swappies are still using the violent rhetoric that they are unable to follow through which led to some of their meetings being trashed.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 7, 2012)

john x said:


> The photoshop coloured dots bloke made it about 870.
> 
> john x


its weird but the numbers on this one have been the most disputed. plod said 3,000 which is no way true. polka dot guy on the other end of the scale, bbc say 1500. lots of empty seats, the infidels have been absorbed much northern support. as for the british fluffues:
Clubmoor – Andrew Edward Philip Harvey – BFP – 26 votes (0.8%)
County – Peter James Stafford – BFP – 17 votes (0.6%)
Everton – Jacqueline Stafford – BFP – 50 votes (1.7%)
Fazakerley – Peter Stafford – BFP – 50 votes (1.5%)
Norris Green – Peter Squire – BFP – 78 votes (2.7%)
piss poor.


----------



## Knotted (May 7, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> You know the EDL are no longer significant when U75 posters don't even care about a national march in Luton.


 
I live in Luton and I don't care. Muslims in Luton don't care. There are a handful of (active) EDL jokers and a handful of Muslims against Crusaders jokers and very few people lose any sleep over either group. We're in a long recession and people have more things to worry about than knock abouts with the EDL (and nobody has managed to find a way of blaming Islam for our economic woes).


----------



## john x (May 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> its weird but the numbers on this one have been the most disputed. plod said 3,000 which is no way true.


 
No, what the Beds Police statement actually said was 'possibly as many as 3000'.

Remember the Daily Mail story originally said 'hundreds of EDL', then changed it to 3000 EDL after the police statement.

And the polka-dot guy was actually somewhere in the middle. I know a couple of people who were there on the day who said 400-500 based on football crowds.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (May 7, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/9i8ehl


----------



## malatesta32 (May 8, 2012)

from the aerial photos id go with up to 1500 at most. the 3000 figure is well exaggertaed but not sure why plod overplayed it rathern that their usual underplay. what is sure is that bolton div bottled it, notts struggled to fill a coach, a lot of the north west and north east didnt go and the majority were from anglia, south east. boredom, cash and splits. and the fluffies link up is going to be intersting.


----------



## bignose1 (May 8, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from the aerial photos id go with up to 1500 at most. the 3000 figure is well exaggertaed but not sure why plod overplayed it rathern that their usual underplay. what is sure is that bolton div bottled it, notts struggled to fill a coach, a lot of the north west and north east didnt go and the majority were from anglia, south east. boredom, cash and splits. and the fluffies link up is going to be intersting.


 Cup final day?? Play offs...end of season deciders....I know you hate soccer but it might have been a factor ...


----------



## malatesta32 (May 8, 2012)

yeah could be right but i think the north south divide has got the better of them chief.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 8, 2012)

also its the 1st time ive heard edl agree with plod about figures.


----------



## nino_savatte (May 9, 2012)

Apparently dribbling loon Christopher Monckton has been making overtures to the BFP. I warn you: this was written by Sunny Hundal.
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/05/09/ukip-spokesman-calls-on-far-right-party-to-join-them/


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 9, 2012)

I saw on twitter early on that News from Nowhere's in Liverpoo's been attacked again. Any news?


----------



## manny-p (May 9, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I saw on twitter early on that News from Nowhere's in Liverpoo's been attacked again. Any news?


I heard this as well. Fash have left now. It's on Bold Street if anyone wants to go and check it out.


----------



## Corax (May 9, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from the aerial photos id go with up to 1500 at most. the 3000 figure is well exaggertaed but not sure why plod overplayed it rathern that their usual underplay.


Cuts.  Exaggerate the threat, justify the numbers.


----------



## Fingers (May 10, 2012)

Derek Fender Corner has been well busy recently:

*Luton Special: Johnny England gets Battered by plod and loses his trousers*

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...-gets-battered-by-plod-and-loses-his-trousers


*Election2012: Neo Nazi David Jones explains why he might not get elected*


http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...d-jones-explains-why-he-might-not-get-elected


----------



## Fingers (May 10, 2012)

Talking of which, Fender is out of the slammer in six weeks or so


----------



## malatesta32 (May 10, 2012)

corax i think you're right on the cuts thing - a week before the plod demo funnily enough. i also think that they inflated numbers to justify bringing in other plod on expensive overtime because they, like sussex plod the other week, simply cannot cope.


----------



## emanymton (May 10, 2012)

The ant-cuts demo outside the conservative conference in Manchester was the only time I have ever been n a demo where our figure and the cops figured matched. So yeah cuts maybe.


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:
			
		

> corax i think you're right on the cuts thing - a week before the plod demo funnily enough. i also think that they inflated numbers to justify bringing in other plod on expensive overtime because they, like sussex plod the other week, simply cannot cope.



 Surely the only way to do that is to put on the record that you cannot cope?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 10, 2012)

butchers, its a bit of a face loser tho isnt it admitting that? arent our bobbies the best in the world after all??? inflating the threat = job creation/preservation.


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2012)

Of course it is, which means that its not really done to cover something up. We had the Hedlu (sp?) over here April last year which really kicked things up a notch. Its a public failure


----------



## malatesta32 (May 10, 2012)

whats hedlu chap?


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2012)

Welsh police. (and by here i mean Bristol)


----------



## Citizen66 (May 10, 2012)

Comin' over here, nickin' our yobs.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 10, 2012)

will the edl be kettling the coppers on the march in a reciprocal gesture?


----------



## ddraig (May 10, 2012)

just an extra 'd'
heddlu


----------



## claphamboy (May 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> will the edl be kettling the coppers on the march in a reciprocal gesture?


 
They would be too pissed to get that together.


----------



## Ranbay (May 10, 2012)

Cant be arsed to watch it but someone might ....


----------



## Ranbay (May 10, 2012)




----------



## DrRingDing (May 10, 2012)

Nice 'shop


----------



## claphamboy (May 10, 2012)

^^^ That is brilliant.


----------



## bignose1 (May 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> will the edl be kettling the coppers on the march in a reciprocal gesture?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 10, 2012)

i noticed kocaine kev karol is looking rather 'windblown.' he must still be living in e hedge now his peg selling business has gone under.


----------



## BlackArab (May 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Of course it is, which means that its not really done to cover something up. We had the Hedlu (sp?) over here April last year which really kicked things up a notch. Its a public failure


 
Fucking Heddlu! It says a lot when people are at pains to point out that it wasn't the local cops but the boys from over the bridge that caused their injuries. Cunts.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2012)

liam pinkham of the liverpool infidels being acccused of nonce behaviour over on VNN. how can they protest pedos when they have someone accused of it in their ranks? oh i forgot, martyn gilleard, richard price, michael coates, etc ... irony.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2012)

more scab anti-union stuff from the scouse infidels etc
http://www.revleft.com/vb/useless-boneheads-try-t171407/index.html


----------



## Ranbay (May 11, 2012)

Next demo seems important and stuff....


----------



## Ranbay (May 11, 2012)

oh and...

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...rner/733-tommy-s-gold-medal-tweeting-twittery


----------



## Red Storm (May 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Next demo seems important and stuff....


 
God they're getting boring. 

I'm surprised the EDL hasn't totally sucome  to marching fatigue.


----------



## Ranbay (May 11, 2012)

I for one look forward to this Civil war when 3% of the country rises up to take us down.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> more scab anti-union stuff from the scouse infidels etc
> http://www.revleft.com/vb/useless-boneheads-try-t171407/index.html





> The immediately started pushing people, calling everyone present, ‘paedophiles’, ‘lesbians;, ‘traitors’, ‘communists’, and ‘work-shy *****’.



Hang on. This happened at half past three in the afternoon. Speaking of work shy, why weren't the boneheads busy at their jobs?


----------



## Ranbay (May 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Hang on. This happened at half past three in the afternoon. Speaking of work shy, why weren't the boneheads busy at their jobs?


----------



## nino_savatte (May 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Next demo seems important and stuff....


LMAO


----------



## Ranbay (May 12, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (May 12, 2012)

full report on scouse scabs
http://libcom.org/blog/fascists-launch-failed-attack-liverpool-picket-line-10052012


----------



## bignose1 (May 12, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> full report on scouse scabs
> http://libcom.org/blog/fascists-launch-failed-attack-liverpool-picket-line-10052012


Well looking at them they certainly dont appear to have much upstairs and will ulimately have a very big fall Im sure some time soon. Cant operatate like that in such a blatant anti working class way for very long.....I think engaging in this behaviour in Liverpool of all place signals the begining of the end for these twats......


----------



## malatesta32 (May 13, 2012)

any psychology graduates ere? why are the EDL etc obsessed with pedophiles? anyone who opposes them is a 'pedo', anyone demostrating against them 'supports pedos' (???) and the EDL/infidell-ends have single handedly 'exposed pedo gangs' FACT! fixation? displacement? scouse nazi liam pinkham desperately trying to deny that he was grooming a 14 year old a couple of years back?


----------



## Badgers (May 13, 2012)

Have they made any statement about the Rochdale thing yet?


----------



## purenarcotic (May 13, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> any psychology graduates ere? why are the EDL etc obsessed with pedophiles? anyone who opposes them is a 'pedo', anyone demostrating against them 'supports pedos' (???) and the EDL/infidell-ends have single handedly 'exposed pedo gangs' FACT! fixation? displacement? scouse nazi liam pinkham desperately trying to deny that he was grooming a 14 year old a couple of years back?


 
I would expect that pedophilia is a popular way to scapegoat an entire community.  'Look at those awful Muslim scum, some of them fiddle with kids and nobody does anything about it because they're afraid to in case they're called racists!' is, I expect, a line they'll use.  Of course, the fact pedophiles exist in every community, and the fact that the white community suffers from difficulties with regards to conviction and reporting rates is something they want to neither consider nor accept. 

It's a clever way to attract people; 'do you hate pedophiles?  Of course you do!  We hate them too, we'll protect your kids, join us!'

The argument is poorly constructed and vacuous, but it's good headlines and plenty of people are happy to be swayed by headlines alone. 

I'm not a psychology graduate, just my opinion like.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 13, 2012)

dunno about statement but they are constantly on about it on facebook, forums etc. liverool lot been calling all antifacsists 'pedos' and 'defenders of pedos' etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 13, 2012)

yeah populism is one angle. its an easy argument to make - pedos get away with it - especially when the conviction rate of other forms of sexual abuse is so fucken poor. plod failure.


----------



## Red Storm (May 13, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Have they made any statement about the Rochdale thing yet?


 
Doing an emergency demo there aint they.


----------



## Ranbay (May 13, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Have they made any statement about the Rochdale thing yet?


 
http://newsthump.com/2012/05/12/for...-from-white-british-paedos-claim-edl-and-bnp/


----------



## bignose1 (May 13, 2012)




----------



## albionism (May 13, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Next demo seems important and stuff....


Is that really a promotional flyer! 
Looks like a very, very shit version of this
**

But, whereas the Krays were genuinely terrifying
and looked really fucking good, those two up there
look like a pair of sad, frightened,mouldy, bollock-chopped
numpties.


----------



## laptop (May 13, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://newsthump.com/2012/05/12/for...-from-white-british-paedos-claim-edl-and-bnp/


 


> “To demonise an entire religion because of the actions of a few individuals is ludicrous,” one muslim community leader told us.
> 
> “I mean, it’s not as if we’re catholics.”


----------



## malatesta32 (May 13, 2012)

scapegoating, emotive subject agreed purenarco! however, confronting striking workers in liverool and calling them 'pedos'? what's that about? and saying UAF 'defend' pedos, apart from nazis, pedophiles are the lowest of forms. who would believe anyone saying someone 'supported' or 'defended' pedophiles? they also claim to have highlighted 'grooming gangs' - surely plod were already on the case hence the charges? they just seem obsessed.


----------



## Ranbay (May 13, 2012)

They call everyone pedos, all the time, they more they use it the less powerful a word it becomes. the less of an insult etc.


----------



## frogwoman (May 13, 2012)

they're accusing a PCS rep of being a paedo because he was protesting against them. fucking scum. and even more ridiculous that fb won't take the page down


----------



## frogwoman (May 13, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> any psychology graduates ere? why are the EDL etc obsessed with pedophiles? anyone who opposes them is a 'pedo', anyone demostrating against them 'supports pedos' (???) and the EDL/infidell-ends have single handedly 'exposed pedo gangs' FACT! fixation? displacement? scouse nazi liam pinkham desperately trying to deny that he was grooming a 14 year old a couple of years back?


 
Projection.


----------



## frogwoman (May 13, 2012)

The fash are the last fucking people to go on about who is a paedo, doesn't stop them doing it though. Bunch of sex pests. Utter fucking scum who deserve a fist in the face. I have first hand experience of the cunts so that is why i am err somewhat "militant" about these twats lol


----------



## Ranbay (May 13, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> they're accusing a PCS rep of being a paedo because he was protesting against them. fucking scum. and even more ridiculous that fb won't take the page down


 
It wont be up for long, should go by tomorrow one way or another.


----------



## Corax (May 13, 2012)

It's not just the EDL that do it.  It's the worst insult that you can make these days, and because of that it's used a lot by some subcultures.

The teacher you don't like - paedo.  Arsene Wenger - paedo.  Etc etc etc.


----------



## Nigel (May 13, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Cant be arsed to watch it but someone might ....



Dropped a bit of a clanger drawing a comparison to Sarkozy


----------



## Ranbay (May 13, 2012)

Corax said:


> It's not just the EDL that do it. It's the worst insult that you can make these days, and because of that it's used a lot by some subcultures.
> 
> The teacher you don't like - paedo. Arsene Wenger - paedo. Etc etc etc.


 
Yeah this is what i mean tho, the more it's used the less meaning it will have. Everyones a padeo!


----------



## butchersapron (May 13, 2012)

I'm not.


----------



## Badgers (May 13, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:
			
		

> Yeah this is what i mean tho, the more it's used the less meaning it will have. Everyones a padeo!



Good job they read the (countdown to Emma Watson being 16) Sun newspaper or something?


----------



## butchersapron (May 13, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Good job they read the (countdown to Emma Watson being 16) Sun newspaper or something?


Never happened. And wrong person. And irrelevant.


----------



## Ranbay (May 13, 2012)

Badgers is never irrelevant too me


----------



## Ranbay (May 13, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/9krf90

Change of plan, Bare in mind MFE had nothing to do with the EDL yeah?


----------



## frogwoman (May 13, 2012)

Ask them why they made a page devoted to defending a TORY sue anderson who said the EDL stand up for the english.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 14, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Never happened. And wrong person. And irrelevant.



Yep. It was charlotte church and according to this link it was an independent website that eventually got taken down:

http://blogs.pressgazette.co.uk/wire/8493


----------



## john x (May 14, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Yep. It was charlotte church and according to this link it was an independent website that eventually got taken down:
> 
> http://blogs.pressgazette.co.uk/wire/8493


 
True, although on her 16th. birthday they had a pic of her arse in hot pants with a caption along the lines of 'legal now'.

john x


----------



## Ranbay (May 14, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (May 14, 2012)

Loving the fact there is a story about Brass Eye on the right.... lol


----------



## BigTom (May 14, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Loving the fact there is a story about Brass Eye on the right.... lol


 
Not just about Brass Eye - about the peadophile episode of Brass Eye and how sick it is


----------



## Citizen66 (May 14, 2012)

BigTom said:


> Not just about Brass Eye - about the peadophile episode of Brass Eye and how sick it is



They're obviously pissing about doing that. They can't be that bereft of self awareness.


----------



## Ranbay (May 15, 2012)

I want to meet the person who told Tommy about Twitter and give them £500's


----------



## manny-p (May 15, 2012)

Tommy keeps them coming thick and fast.


----------



## Ranbay (May 15, 2012)

Can he top it?

yeah

http://twitpic.com/9lejj0


----------



## manny-p (May 15, 2012)

That's why he is known as sir tommy amongst his supporters-what a patriot.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (May 16, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> they're accusing a PCS rep of being a paedo because he was protesting against them. fucking scum. and even more ridiculous that fb won't take the page down


 
it's been taken down now apparently


----------



## Ranbay (May 16, 2012)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/16/edls-tommy-robinson-twitter-muslim-racist_n_1521110.html

*EDL's Tommy Robinson Attracts Twitter Hatred After Racially Abusing 'Underage' User*


----------



## malatesta32 (May 20, 2012)

EDL/Fluffy BF need £1m to contest 2015 GE. thats a lot of hoodies to sell.
http://britishfreedom.org/bf-edl-strategy-meeting/
hopeless.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 20, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL/Fluffy BF need £1m to contest 2015 GE. thats a lot of hoodies to sell.
> http://britishfreedom.org/bf-edl-strategy-meeting/
> hopeless.


 
Not saying it's going to happen, but the far right has always attracted support from slightly deranged members of the upper classes who are willing to donate large quantities of money. They're not going to get it by selling hoodies but it's feasible that they might get a decent amount of money this way. Although I'm not sure if they're ultra-conservative or credible enough to attract funding from these people - the fluffiness might go against them in this case.


----------



## Ranbay (May 20, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...w-woodward-edl-unveil-their-latest-paedophile

More nonce's in the EDL shocker....


----------



## malatesta32 (May 21, 2012)

its beyond farce bob, way beyond!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 21, 2012)

and another EDL pedo bites the dust!
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...w-woodward-edl-unveil-their-latest-paedophile


----------



## john x (May 21, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> but the far right has always attracted support from slightly deranged members of the upper classes who are willing to donate large quantities of money.


 
Not sure if a party that gets 17 votes and loses all their deposits is likely to attract any big sponsors.

The NF in the north-west are sporting a nice line in professionally produced banners, probably paid for by that crank millionaire Peter Quiggins!

john x


----------



## sim667 (May 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> and another EDL pedo bites the dust!
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...w-woodward-edl-unveil-their-latest-paedophile


 
Hardly 'biting the dust' with a bit of community service and a fine.


----------



## john x (May 22, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Hardly 'biting the dust' with a bit of community service and a fine.


 
I take it you haven't seen the threats made to 'get him' on EDL facebook pages then? 

They came after the 'he is definitely not EDL' statements, followed shortly by the "I marched with that little shit in Luton and if I'd known then....blah, blah, blah", followed by the "Oh so he is EDL then?", followed by the "we will be watching him closely" stuff. 

Like the nazi salutes at EDL demos, they are more concerned about the being found out, than the actual acts themselves.


john x


----------



## sim667 (May 22, 2012)

I meant in terms of sentencing, its hardly 'biting the dust' I thought thats what you were referring to.


----------



## bignose1 (May 22, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I meant in terms of sentencing, its hardly 'biting the dust' I thought thats what you were referring to.


 Out of the frame I think he meant...no longer viable...


----------



## sim667 (May 22, 2012)

Yeah, I know now 

Could be taken either way though tbh.


----------



## Fingers (May 23, 2012)

Ouch, dirtyman appears to have been the leader of CxF Deeside Division

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...-edl-peadophile-belongs-to-combined-ex-forces

What have they been protesting about for the last fews months?


----------



## john x (May 24, 2012)

Fingers said:


> What have they been protesting about for the last fews months?


 
Well given that the Cxf has joined forces with the NF and are calling for all paedophiles to be hung, that leaves them in a bit of a quandry! 

john x


----------



## malatesta32 (May 24, 2012)

michael oakes, richard price, woodward and pinkham? surely enough for a division now?
KIDDY F-EDL-ERS?


----------



## frogwoman (May 24, 2012)

john x said:


> I take it you haven't seen the threats made to 'get him' on EDL facebook pages then?
> 
> They came after the 'he is definitely not EDL' statements, followed shortly by the "I marched with that little shit in Luton and if I'd known then....blah, blah, blah", followed by the "Oh so he is EDL then?", followed by the "we will be watching him closely" stuff.
> 
> ...


 
Why is that a surprise to anyone


----------



## malatesta32 (May 24, 2012)

why cant they just get along? more fallouts from EDL News.
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/derek-fender-corner


----------



## Ranbay (May 25, 2012)

https://twitter.com/#!/edltrobinson

the guys a wlaking talking PR disaster, thank you whoever told him to try twitter out!!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2012)

more good news, gobshite 'arthur' who has long been the EDLs internet pest humilatedly told to sling his hook! tosser.
http://twitpic.com/9ozjpo


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2012)

and apparently CFX intelligence and insecurity bod resigns.
http://twitpic.com/9oyfze
no we never heard of him either.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2012)

arthur disburys meltdown starts here:
http://twitpic.com/9oxtoy
Arfuuuur!


----------



## Corax (May 25, 2012)

Was Arthur one of the nutjobs that turned up here for a while?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2012)

i think he was. he was all over everywhere at one point as it game him a 'purpose'. he was like a dog who had just found out he cd lick his own genitals. he was a trampy looking old geezer if i recall. this is him:


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i think he was. he was all over everywhere at one point as it game him a 'purpose'. he was like a dog who had just found out he cd lick his own genitals. he was a trampy looking old geezer if i recall. this is him:


 
Looks like Leonard Rossiter's character from the rising damp lol



malatesta32 said:


> more good news, gobshite 'arthur' who has long been the EDLs internet pest humilatedly told to sling his hook! tosser.
> http://twitpic.com/9ozjpo


 
Seems to imply that arfur was engaged in criminal/unwarranted/ill judged actions - anyone got any idea what that's all about?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2012)

[quote Seems to imply that arfur was engaged in criminal/unwarranted/ill judged actions - anyone got any idea what that's all about?[/quote]
dunno mate, reckon fingers is the one in the know. or the bods on EDL extra or Expose tweeters! whatever it is i am sure its petty!


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/9pfu1n/full

Nice


----------



## weepiper (May 26, 2012)

SDL got granted permission to march in Edinburgh at the last minute 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-18218128


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 26, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/9pfu1n/full
> 
> Nice


 
That isn't necessarily what it looks like - the fag isn't lit. My brother's got a similar pic of my niece at about the same age where she's posing with a can and a (unlit) fag in her mouth - she wasn't smoking and wasn't drinking. Don't get me wrong, wouldn't put it past them but it's hardly incriminating.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> That isn't necessarily what it looks like - the fag isn't lit. My brother's got a similar pic of my niece at about the same age where she's posing with a can and a (unlit) fag in her mouth - she wasn't smoking and wasn't drinking. Don't get me wrong, wouldn't put it past them but it's hardly incriminating.


 
And Muzzie Scum on the flag?


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 26, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> And Muzzie Scum on the flag?


 
What do you think?


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> What do you think?


 
I thought they was only against Militant Islam.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2012)

plod over-estimates to justify drafting in other plod.
http://www.redditchstandard.co.uk/2...nites-as-EDL-march-ends-peacefully-40719.html
paper says 40!!!much larger local resistance, EDL outnumbered and very unwelcome. intersting!!!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2012)

eek, it was even worse than we thought!
http://www.redditchadvertiser.co.uk/news/9729373.EDL_march_comes_to_an_end/?ref=la


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2012)

at last the infidels can finally claim they can mobilise more eejits than the EDL!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2012)

thoroughly shite turn out


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2012)

SDL equally crap
http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/10334...al/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## Das Uberdog (May 31, 2012)

Morning Star stall attacked in Hull over the weekend: http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/25-fascists-attack-a-morning-star-paper-sale/


----------



## krink (May 31, 2012)

a few kids are having an anti-jubilee thing in newcastle on monday and the edl have threatened they're going to go down and wipe them out.


----------



## Ranbay (May 31, 2012)

There's talk of them showing up in Bristol this weekend. but with these cunts you never know, they treat it look footy fight meetings, miss-information etc


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## albionism (May 31, 2012)

krink said:


> a few kids are having an anti-jubilee thing in newcastle on monday and the edl have threatened they're going to go down and wipe them out.


Just shows them up for the class traitor scum cunts that they are.


----------



## Termite Man (Jun 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> There's talk of them showing up in Bristol this weekend. but with these cunts you never know, they treat it look footy fight meetings, miss-information etc


 
got a link for that, the date I can find is 14 July although there was talk of it being moved because it classed with Bristol Pride


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> got a link for that, the date I can find is 14 July although there was talk of it being moved because it classed with Bristol Pride


 
was on twitter, seems it's an EDL account pretending to be anit and leaking info about them going to Bristol instead of Brighton this weekend, so looks like they are going to Brighton after all.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2012)

https://twitter.com/#!/antifascist777


----------



## Termite Man (Jun 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://twitter.com/#!/antifascist777


is that the only source?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> is that the only source?


 
yeah, that account if you look at it closely is SO pro EDL it's funny.

It's all smoke and mirrors with these dicks, they treat it like a footy punch up because that's what they want.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2012)

https://twitter.com/antifascist777/status/208256553038512130/photo/1


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...old-wet-and-hated-the-edl-casuals-in-brighton


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 2, 2012)

fatty stabber marsh and casuals embarass themselves in brighton again. totally protected by plod as usual it seems. they never learn.
https://twitter.com/#!/SussexCrime


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 2, 2012)

Cries from the plod escort back to the station, "We're not getting the train, we're staying for the weekend."

lol See you on Monday then you bunch of knuckle dragging cretins!


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2012)

http://www.sussex.police.uk/news-an...ve/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

A total 18 people were arrested during the day. Three were cautioned and released:

A 47-year-old man from Enfield, Middlesex, was cautioned for possession of cocaine and released.
A 32-year-old man from Portslade was cautioned for possession of cannabis and cannabis resin and released.
A 37-year-old man from Sittingbourne, Kent, was cautioned for possession of cocaine and released.
The remainder are in custody while investigations continue and have been, or will be, interviewed:

A 26-year-old man from Cambridge for using offensive language. 
A 44-year-old man from Brighton for discharging a firework in a public place.
A 45-year-old man from Brighton for breach of the peace.
A 49-year-old man from Shoreham for actual bodily harm.
A 43-year-old man from Hull for being drunk and disorderly.
A 49-year-old man from Worthing for using offensive language.
A 50-year-old man from Herne Bay, Kent for committing battery. 
A 45-year-old man from Bletchley, Milton Keynes for breaching a notice served under Section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act.
A 51-year-old man from Hull for criminal damage, assaulting a police officer and breaching a notice served under Section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act.
A 53-year-old woman from Brighton for assaulting a police officer.
A 27-year-old man from Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire for causing distress to public.
A 30-year-old man from Brighton for assault.
A 27-year-old man from Brighton for using offensive language.
A 50-year-old man from Bournemouth for using racial language while chanting. 
A 37-year-old man from Brighton for possession of heroin.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 2, 2012)

very weak show from them this time.
http://twitpic.com/9s2k30
verdict: embarassing!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 2, 2012)

feck, this is embarassing:
'A 51-year-old man from Hull for criminal damage, assaulting a police officer and breaching a notice served under Section 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act.'
time to grow up old man.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 3, 2012)

good account here:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/06/496672.html


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 3, 2012)

This is a funny row between far right twats following yesterday's debacle. I adore the way they plan to inflict violence on folk, take their kids on nasty demos and then whinge if something gets thrown within 10 yards of a kid, making up fake propaganda using photos lifted from elsewhere online. 

But that's another story. Here's some giggles

http://twitpic.com/9sfm1h


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 3, 2012)

More giggles from this blog (c'est un spoof, or possible une spoof I dunno) 

http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2012)

taff, there is a strong element of 'lets get them at playtime' to all their rhetoric. they are the 'tough kids' at school who once in the real world realise that they only have their bullying to give them prestige. which is pretty useless anywhere practical.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2012)

also the misuse of the word 'marxist' in relation to plod, cameron, labour councils, uaf and antifascists of all stripes. embarassing.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> More giggles from this blog (c'est un spoof, or possible une spoof I dunno)
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/


Giggles? That's about as unfunny as it's possible to get outside of a Paddy McGuinness gig.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2012)

butchers, i thought it's a spoof surely?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2012)

footage of edl being escorted out of brighton. yet again. another victory no doubt.


Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> butchers, i thought it's a spoof surely?


Of course it's a spoof - and it's shit. Like i said.


----------



## krink (Jun 4, 2012)

from what i've heard (not much) the anti-jubilee protest in newcastle was outnumbered by 80 NF/EDL/NEI from across the north and they had to be moved for their own safety by the police.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 4, 2012)

http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2012/06/04/eye-witness-account-from-newcastle-today-nei-nwi-edl/

http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/22000

^

*Tommy Robinson EDL* ‏@*EDLTrobinson* 
Putting your arm in the air whist signing is not a nazi salute. On the video he's holding a flag and as his hand comes down he's pointing.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 4, 2012)

The contradictions from how edl & casuals saw it, to the public & media is outstanding. Especially from Brighton on Saturday. We know how much they like to big 'em selves up online, but fucking nora, delusions of grandeur!


----------



## bamalama (Jun 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> taff, there is a strong element of 'lets get them at playtime' to all their rhetoric. they are the 'tough kids' at school who once in the real world realise that they only have their bullying to give them prestige. which is pretty useless anywhere practical.


 Bringing kids on demos like that is a cynical propaganda technique,fucking cunts.It's says more about the parents who do it than it could ever say about the poor kids who are raised in those households...i really feel for those kids.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 4, 2012)

Taffs got form in the v unfunny 'they're all so thick' dept .


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/reunitednationalists/permalink/404405076271042/

^ Funny


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2012)

'ayatollah' told me about the NF bringing kids and families on demos in the 70s which was ostensibly to project a family image but to me it sounds like using them to hide behind. the brighton thing was ridiculous. they knew they were going to be violently opposed so bringing kids along was either stupid or a bad attempt at PR.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/groups/reunitednationalists/permalink/404405076271042/
> 
> ^ Funny


bill baker. what an arse clown. he is one of those recalcitrant fascists who keeps getting booted out of groups and then re-emerges for new people to despise. which on the far right is not a great amount.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2012)

rather amusing images from collins' blog.
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1940/shameless-thugs-out-again
watmough and biggs, worse than baker.


----------



## krink (Jun 5, 2012)

there's nobody laughing up here mal.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2012)

the edl NE have been shown alongside NF - so not racists then.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2012)

NF with EDL
http://twitpic.com/9surze


----------



## krink (Jun 5, 2012)

from the pics and what I heard it looks like NF were the largest group and they bussed a few in too. the edl leader Alan Spence (just out of nick) says he would have kicked out any nazis who were there...despite standing talking and getting pics took with the openly nazi NF.

It's just as well none of the groups have any stature in the north east (outside of the political activist scene).


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jun 5, 2012)

krink said:


> there's nobody laughing up here mal.


 
The NF have taken and lost the Monument a few times over the past 30 years - first time I've seen it that one sided though.


----------



## krink (Jun 5, 2012)

sunnysidedown said:


> The NF have taken and lost the Monument a few times over the past 30 years - first time I've seen it that one sided though.


 
outnumbered 5 - 1. that's from a lad who was there.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 5, 2012)

http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/22064



> *Anti-Jubilee Protester Set Alight At Newcastle EDL Demonstration*


----------



## audiotech (Jun 5, 2012)

..


----------



## Gingerman (Jun 5, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/22064


  'Defending' England from the threat of militant Islam by setting fire to the hair of an anti-Jubilee protester.....


----------



## albionism (Jun 6, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/22064


That cunt should be easy to identify.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 6, 2012)

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/casuals-united-fighting-in-brighton-jubilee​​casuals-united-fighting-in-brighton-jubilee​


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

_Casuals?_ Scruffy gets.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 6, 2012)

hmmm the master race could do with some hybred vigor or an injection of fresh genes.
  Ugly and badly dressed at least proper Nazis had style.

If we have to have Nazis and are no longer allowed to set fire to them  they could at least return the favor
http://www.spiegel.de/international...ent-of-third-reich-body-worship-a-768641.html Brightons got a nudist beach they'd be welcome


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/casuals-united-fighting-in-brighton-jubilee​​casuals-united-fighting-in-brighton-jubilee​


ha great photo essay. what a bunch of clowns.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/casuals-united-fighting-in-brighton-jubilee​​casuals-united-fighting-in-brighton-jubilee​


 
Its like anti fascism without politics


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Its like anti fascism without politics


280 pages of it.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 6, 2012)

281 soon


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> 281 soon


 
How's the allotment?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> How's the allotment?


 
Good cheers, been far to busy building mt kitchen extension tho the past few weeks mind you.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

yuppie


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Good cheers, been far to busy building mt kitchen extension tho the past few weeks mind you.


 
I went to Spain for a week and was amazed how much the grass and weeds had grown.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 6, 2012)

digging 2 foot under ground and getting covered in shitty waste water to lay 1.5 ton of concrete for the foundations, hardly.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I went to Spain for a week and was amazed how much the grass and weeds had grown.


 
mental, i'm off to Spain in September.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> digging 2 foot under ground and getting covered in shitty waste water to lay 1.5 ton of concrete for the foundations, hardly.


That's what yuppies do  - they go gym for a reason.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> That's what yuppies do - they go gym for a reason.


 
Cool.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2012)

edl yuppies. edl not w/c. Good thread. Must i draw you a line?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 7, 2012)

duno, I'm going to sleep now cos i have like work and shit tomorrow.


Laters


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 7, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Its like anti fascism without politics


 
steps and butchers, how do you think the recent attacks on TU, uncut, left stalls etc should be dealt with? the far right are clearly upping the ante and becoming a wee bit more confident. what do you guys think is the appropriate response to brighton, newcastle etc? just interested in light of some posting here. also gardening? would an appropriate collective name for gardeners be 'dimmocks?'


----------



## albionism (Jun 7, 2012)

They should be dealt with by giving the fuckers a good kicking.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 7, 2012)

agreed but some of the posters on here have said that militant AF is untimely. personally a broad front of people doing what they think is appropriate is the most organic and effective way of dealing with this stuff, being UAF non-physical protest, negative media, TU/community organisation and militiancy for those up for it.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> steps and butchers, how do you think the recent attacks on TU, uncut, left stalls etc should be dealt with? the far right are clearly upping the ante and becoming a wee bit more confident. what do you guys think is the appropriate response to brighton, newcastle etc? just interested in light of some posting here. also gardening? would an appropriate collective name for gardeners be 'dimmocks?'


There hasn't been a wave of attacks has there? There's been a few isolated incidents with the NF simultaneously trying to re-make their mark by a physical presence at a few things. That's it. What's required is people doing the stalls to understand what they're doing and to organise what responses they have the potential to take (quick or slow and with the knowledge that uncut are not going to have the same range as TUs etc) with their members - nothing special. Unless you want every stall in the country having people ready to go? Not feasible and not welcome. First thing to do - stop panicking.

Incidentally, griffin was back on the attack against EDL zionists earlier. Sounds like he's been rebuffed.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 7, 2012)

butchers, no wave but an increase in attacks which can develop into a wave. they grow in confidence from soft 'victories' (the lewisham debacle) and thus grow in numbers. AFA was succesful because it both outnumbered and err, 'outmanouevred' the fash. although the fash are currently fragmented (as ever) and have been humiliated in places (liverpool, brighton etc) the newcastle thing caught the left on the hop and antifascist groups need to be aware of any possible situation. they are more active than they have been for a long time. re: BNP, even EDL realise that Griffin is knackered. mind you, the EDL fluffy British Freedom has hardly rocked the world!


----------



## Fingers (Jun 8, 2012)

Well it has all gone a bit sour bollocks between Tommy and Stabby Marsh, handbags at dawn. Considering most Casuals consider themselves EDL I am wondering how this drama will play out

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...-erupts-after-edl-for-casuals-brighton-fiasco


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2012)

Priceless!


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 8, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> butchers, no wave but an increase in attacks which can develop into a wave. they grow in confidence from soft 'victories' (the lewisham debacle) and thus grow in numbers. AFA was succesful because it both outnumbered and err, 'outmanouevred' the fash. although the fash are currently fragmented (as ever) and have been humiliated in places (liverpool, brighton etc) the newcastle thing caught the left on the hop and antifascist groups need to be aware of any possible situation. they are more active than they have been for a long time. re: BNP, even EDL realise that Griffin is knackered. mind you, the EDL fluffy British Freedom has hardly rocked the world!


 
In risk areas protect the stalls etc build a network of support, show some savvy and vigilance.There isn't a national pattern ;Lewisham was random, Newcastle local.

Waiting for the wave , waiting for the fascists to return to the streets simply shows that anti fascism simply needs to break out of the anti fascist ghetto.Even when these small groups of fascists are doing what the antifa types think that facsists should be doing lifeless anti fascism is found wanting.

Wishing for AFA type revivals  simply hasn't any answer to 21st century fascism.

How about you?


----------



## likesfish (Jun 8, 2012)

Its kind of hard to get work up much steam about facists.
 When that lot  that turned up in brighton spent the day running from the police the anti facists and trying to get served in pubs.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 8, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Well it has all gone a bit sour bollocks between Tommy and Stabby Marsh, handbags at dawn. Considering most Casuals consider themselves EDL I am wondering how this drama will play out
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...-erupts-after-edl-for-casuals-brighton-fiasco


they just cant agree with each other fingers. too many egos and 'backstabbing' in various divisions. part of this is because very very few of them come from an organised political background - unlike antifascists who are involved in other areas of political struggle - and do not understand political efficacy. its not about individuals its about the ideological struggle etc. that and they are just a big bunch of silly billies. ooh, have i gone too far there?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 8, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> In risk areas protect the stalls etc build a network of support, show some savvy and vigilance.There isn't a national pattern ;Lewisham was random, Newcastle local.
> 
> Waiting for the wave , waiting for the fascists to return to the streets simply shows that anti fascism simply needs to break out of the anti fascist ghetto.Even when these small groups of fascists are doing what the antifa types think that facsists should be doing lifeless anti fascism is found wanting.
> 
> ...


hey steps! agree with 1st point totallt. the attacks were not so random as much as a development of opportunistic attacks on soft targets. im not sure about where you are, but here antifascists are all involved in uncut, TU stuff, swp etc as part of a wider struggle. i certainly do not think that an AFA #3 shd be revived but antifascists should react in a way they see fit locally. just wanted your opinion feller!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 8, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Its kind of hard to get work up much steam about facists.
> When that lot that turned up in brighton spent the day running from the police the anti facists and trying to get served in pubs.


 
ha ha! yes it must be very wearing for them not being served all day! i think antifascists need to recognise the soccer mentality of this current lot - taking liberties in anti fascists 'manors' like brighton or liverpool is a victory for them as is getting on the telly. localised resistance prevents them from growing in confidence and i dunno about you, but i resent fascists marching unopposed thru town no matter how many they are. i am not infalting the threat here but advocating a nip it in the bud response determined by local feeling and responding in a way they see fit. jings, thats awfy liberal!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 8, 2012)

the CxF homeguard in court. dont panic!
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/i...o-large-scale-disorder-of-edl-court-told.html


----------



## teqniq (Jun 8, 2012)

Brainless.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 8, 2012)

Not even sure the edl count as facists i know politics isn't a big thing on the far right but even compared to the bnp they appear stupid.
   Its yobs looking for a ruck they managed to lose a sort of political arguement on arrse which has got to be some sort of record ffs
   Wouldn't want to meet these wankers after they have had their pint of german lager.
   Their not political there a nasty bunch of yobs.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 8, 2012)

EDL are not fascist but vary in degree of nationalism. the more overt fascists have defected to the infidels and are hooking up with the NF - who are 14 words enthusiasts, ie, _we must ensure national front election deposits are never returned after our futile attempts. _
the majority of them are clueless politically and treat these events like a soccer match and do it for what i recall hooligans call 'the buzz.' though where im from the buzz is whit ye get intae toon!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 8, 2012)

put this in the rochdale thread ...
rochdale demo tomorrow with the edl which the casuals are claiming to support despite the huge fallouts with mr tommy this week (and despite all the denials, recriminations flew!)
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/762-marsh-steps-up-war-of-words-with-edl
and on the same day the BNP in blackpool on the charlene downes thing having basically taken it over and booted out the casuals much to stabber marsh's chagrin. mrs downes has been courted by griffin who is happy to capitalise on it all! as ever great timing.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 8, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 8, 2012)

between 4 and 19 years is hardly lenient. but i suppose they wanna flog em as hard as mr tommy flogged his hoodies!


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 8, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> hey steps! agree with 1st point totallt. the attacks were not so random as much as a development of opportunistic attacks on soft targets. im not sure about where you are, but here antifascists are all involved in uncut, TU stuff, swp etc as part of a wider struggle. i certainly do not think that an AFA #3 shd be revived but antifascists should react in a way they see fit locally. just wanted your opinion feller!


 
I am in and around Manchester , where are you?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 8, 2012)

PM'd you feller!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 9, 2012)

Just following the EDL thing in Rochdale on twitter and apparently the Infidels have been out canvassing the local area with this leaflet against Tommy Robinson

https://twitter.com/edlnews/status/211428564401266689/photo/1

So far there's not many EDL there, but I have a few friends who are in town at the counter-demo so I'll wait to hear from them before guessing at the numbers.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 9, 2012)

and it all falls apart. again. collins on the spot!
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 9, 2012)

from collins. an unusual juxtaposition:
'There are only 35 BNP at teir demo in Blackpool and are looking quite miserable as the Gay Pride march goes by, giving them the "bird" as it were.'


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 9, 2012)

https://twitter.com/#!/DanJudeFHM < So apparently this scumbag FHM journo is "embedded" with the EDL as part of a feature they're writing on them. Apparently he's going to be fair and balanced.

Rumours that 2 asian people and some photographers have been assaulted, denied by police. 7 people arrested so far.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 9, 2012)

casuals united desperately attempting to downplay split on casuals united [sic!]. they reckon 60 at blackpool, collins say 35. another flop.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 9, 2012)

According to EDL News http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=766&catid=16&Itemid=240 Our Tommy has just taken to the stage with a Koran and lighter.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 9, 2012)

oops! not collins, but from hope not hate.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 9, 2012)

rochdale observer really trying hard to ignore it and just blogging weather reports, ie, still arsing it down.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2012)

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereve...ring-english-defence-league-rally-in-rochdale

11 arrested from 400 today.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2012)

Some pictures also

http://bacphotography.photoshelter....ts2QsK9KKaE/I0000fuzM4fuwU.s/C0000h3a0sTcbwLs

I see Tommy has a Quran in his hands in one....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 9, 2012)

"If you care for your kids you'd be stood here with us"

Fucking LOL


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2012)

yeah that one did make me giggle a little... i also noticed some really young faces again.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2012)

When making a speech and holding the Quran i often hold a massive fuck off lighter an all.... 








oh and looks more like 200 than 400


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2012)

shite turnout for a national demo. the infidels split has harmed them. the bnp and infidels in blackpool hijacking stabber marsh's cause celebre = hurt pride and major denials that all is not well. and that tommy pedo poster really takes the garibaldi. they shd just give up.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> shite turnout for a national demo. the infidels split has harmed them. the bnp and infidels in blackpool hijacking stabber marsh's cause celebre = hurt pride and major denials that all is not well. and that tommy pedo poster really takes the garibaldi. they shd just give up.


 
It's a dreadful turnout, absolutely shocking for them. I expected a lot more. They seem to be really struggling in the north of england at the moment, although that's partly down to the infidels split and whatever, I don't see thousands turning up for their demo's either to be honest. I reckon a lot of them have just dropped out of politics altogether. There's only so much standing aimlessly in car parks anyone can do.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2012)

absolutely right. the nickings lead to bans, its an expensive day out just to stand about surrounded by plod and they have achieved nothing. a lot of people REALLY hate mr tommy!


----------



## mazthegob (Jun 11, 2012)

hi,
annie here from fashwatch    were working hard to update pictures on the site, but as we all have lives lols and other commitments we can only do a bit at a time whenever where free,  soooooo  theres going to be loads of mistakes made so we need folk to have a look and let us know  what mistakes we've made, but be nice  as were volunteers and also  please please pass around info on the site, at the moment were just getting pictures from facebook etc we need your intell    love annie kiss 



fashwatch.weebly.com              
fashwatch@hushmail.me


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> absolutely right. the nickings lead to bans, its an expensive day out just to stand about surrounded by plod and they have achieved nothing. a lot of people REALLY hate mr tommy!


 

Thank heavens for GMP


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2012)

mazthegob said:


> hi,
> annie here from fashwatch were working hard to update pictures on the site, but as we all have lives lols and other commitments we can only do a bit at a time whenever where free, soooooo theres going to be loads of mistakes made so we need folk to have a look and let us know what mistakes we've made, but be nice  as were volunteers and also please please pass around info on the site, at the moment were just getting pictures from facebook etc we need your intell love annie kiss
> 
> 
> ...


 
Fuck redwatch Fuck Fashwatch Fuck you. no time for sites like that fair enough if people are outed for crimes but sticking up photos of people on demos is a cunts trick.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2012)

Is that some sort of joke bob? Some sort of ha-ha? This is what this thread is. 7000 screengrabs of people on demos and doing nothing but talking about demos.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Is that some sort of joke bob? Some sort of ha-ha? This is what this thread is. 3000 screengrabs of people on demos and doing nothing but talking about demos.


 
I don't see people sticking up photos in this thread and going look he went on a demo. what ever your views you have the right to go on demos without someone putting your photo up on one of these sites like fash and red watch.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I don't see people sticking up photos in this thread and going look he went on a demo. what ever your views you have the right to go on demos without someone putting your photo up on one of these sites like fash and red watch.


Are you fucking blind then? This is pretty much all this shit disgrace of a thread has been - with added ooh he said this. It's the M.O of the thread and to see you rattle yourself into condemning it now is pretty fucking pathetic. Grow up three years ago.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Are you fucking blind then? This is pretty much all this shit disgrace of a thread has been - with added ooh he said this. It's the M.O of the thread and to see you rattle yourself into condemning it now is pretty fucking pathetic. Grow up three years ago.


 
Cool


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I don't see people sticking up photos in this thread and going look he went on a demo. what ever your views you have the right to go on demos without someone putting your photo up on one of these sites like fash and red watch.


 
You two faced liar. You even did it yourself within the last few weeks.

*but other people did it first*


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Cool


That's your response? You pathetic shark.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> That's your response? You pathetic shark.


 
Enjoy yourself I'm off to do the garden then make a stiry fry.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2012)

Smug in the knowledge that you've been righteous. You wouldn't let or ecnoursge people to put up pics of people simply because they'd been on demos on your thread, but only people who had committed crimes. That doesn't happen here. Not on this thread. Oh no.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 11, 2012)

why don't you get your own boards to lord it over?
oh wait...


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2012)

Why don't i get my own boards so bob can be a two-faced rat on them? Not interested. He can do it here. You can too. Are you also taking a stern n_o innocents_ pose here? As we approach post 9000?


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2012)

Bob May 26th.

Plenty more.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I don't see people sticking up photos in this thread and going look he went on a demo. what ever your views you have the right to go on demos without someone putting your photo up on one of these sites like fash and red watch.


 
erm, are you serious ?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2012)

cantsin said:


> erm, are you serious ?


 
yeah


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2012)

bob said:
			
		

> I don't see people sticking up photos in this thread and going look he went on a demo. what ever your views you have the right to go on demos without someone putting your photo *up on one of these sites* like fash and red watch.


This is _'one of those sites_' - this is it.


----------



## krink (Jun 11, 2012)

Speaking as someone who regularly reads this thread and enjoys Bob's posts I have to say Butchers is right here. It is a bit late to say putting the mugs of edl/naming edl/whatever on the net is wrong when that's what me and everyone else who regularly posts in this thread has been doing for page after page.

It is just a gossip/look at them thread and always has been. While for me, the lack of 'seriousness' in this thread is not something that really bothers me much, I appreciate that for others it does. I mean, it's a big internet - there's room for other threads.

But on this particular point, Bob, I think Butcher's is right.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2012)

I don't post pictures up with people and point out their names, i don't think this thread is anything like fash watch/red watch... I think sites like them are dangerous. 

So there


----------



## albionism (Jun 12, 2012)

EDL threaten The Selecter after Pauline Black denounces them
at scooter rally.
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/769-edl-east-anglia-threaten-ska-band


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I don't post pictures up with people and point out their names, i don't think this thread is anything like fash watch/red watch... I think sites like them are dangerous.
> 
> So there


Name and family.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Name and family.


 
never noticed the name on the far right before, took me a while to see it. also his eyes are kinda blacked out by some massive black bar thing. Hardly the same as fashwatch/redwatch but thanks anyway.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2012)

i don't think fashwatch is such a bad thing as it goes. what i do get fed up with is people thinking that making screengrabs of what fash said on facebook is what anti-fascism is about (and i don't mean you, bob, i mean the expose lot).


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 12, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> but sticking up photos of people on demos is a cunts trick.



Pot, meet kettle.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 12, 2012)

comparing this thread to redwatch is a bit extreme. antifascism is about all kinds of things including intell, screengrabs etc. you choose your own method (we do proapganda and go on the demos etc), others do what they can. broad church approach. the fash see it all as 1 front against them - UAF [sic].


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2012)

Bristol UAF had an open organising meeting about countering the coming non-threat of the EDL in bristol last night. Timed it so you basically had to choose the england game or the meeting. That says so much on so many levels.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 12, 2012)

albionism said:


> EDL threaten The Selecter after Pauline Black denounces them
> at scooter rally.
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/769-edl-east-anglia-threaten-ska-band


 I doubt very much these pricks will go any where near...apart from the fact they wont be able to find it....suffolk em


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 12, 2012)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Bristol UAF had an open organising meeting about countering the coming non-threat of the EDL in bristol last night. Timed it so you basically had to choose the england game or the meeting. That says so much on so many levels.



So it's less likely to be attacked?


----------



## RegularPoster (Jun 12, 2012)

.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> So it's less likely to be attacked?


Less likely to have a certain type of anti-fascist turn up as well.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 12, 2012)

id have gone to the meeting. that soccer team are rubbish.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 12, 2012)

albionism said:


> EDL threaten The Selecter after Pauline Black denounces them
> at scooter rally.
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/769-edl-east-anglia-threaten-ska-band


there was always a far right contingent skulking round the 2 tone scene and some of the scooter clubs had fascist members. the far right politics of the scoot clubs has not been covered much.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 12, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> there was always a far right contingent skulking round the 2 tone scene and some of the scooter clubs had fascist members. the far right politics of the scoot clubs has not been covered much.


In Manc there deffo is some fash leaning types on the scooter circuit. I spotted some in Llandudno last year then on me way home on the A55 passed a few waiting in a layby with a rather dishevelled look about them...ha


----------



## albionism (Jun 12, 2012)

Well, that's true, but you don't get the seig heiling hordes
at "2Tone" gigs now, the way you used to in 1979-1980.
I'm sure if EDL and their ilk turn up at a Ska gig looking to
kick off, they will get a well earned shoeing.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2012)

A_ modern_ ska fest? No chance. I think these muppets have been watching a bit too much youtube of old old gigs.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 12, 2012)

George Michael was a scooter boy a long time ago until he fell off one day.....it did though inspire one of his albums........careless vespas


----------



## krink (Jun 12, 2012)

albionism said:


> EDL threaten The Selecter after Pauline Black denounces them
> at scooter rally.
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/769-edl-east-anglia-threaten-ska-band


 

ha ha I know Pauline Black and her fans won't be scared by their threats. the likes of the edl are fuck all compared to the old days with NF and BM and that lot.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2012)

Anyone know what Pauline said?


----------



## krink (Jun 12, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> George Michael was a scooter boy a long time ago until he fell off one day.....it did though inspire one of his albums........careless vespas


 
stop this now


----------



## krink (Jun 12, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Anyone know what Pauline said?


 
edit. got that wrong.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2012)

Ta. Would be interesting to see if it was an off the cuff thing in response to someone muppets or a planned thing.


----------



## krink (Jun 12, 2012)

From what people are saying on the forums it was an intro to a song and she slagged off the edl in passing rather than specifically. that may be wrong too though!! I'll just wait and get it from a proper first hand source later on. bloody internet speculation!


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2012)

probably Big In The Body, Small In The Mind - explicitly anti-EDL (and other racist nutjiob groups) release from last year


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2012)

belboid said:


> probably Big In The Body, Small In The Mind - explicitly anti-EDL (and other racist nutjiob groups) release from last year


Sort of the one krink mentioned then.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I don't see people sticking up photos in this thread and going look he went on a demo. what ever your views you have the right to go on demos without someone putting your photo up on one of these sites like fash and red watch.


 
Why do you have a "right" to do anything? Shouldn't people face the consequences of their actions? If you choose to be involved in the fash, and go on fascist demos it's obvious that people will take exception to it, and rightly so in my opinion. For fuck's sake, if somebody is attacking different races and attacking the right of the w/c to organise then don't be surprised if their photo ends up on some website ffs, they made a fucking choice. (although photos of kids is a bit off imo)

As for redwatch, loads of people will be targetted by the fash for doing things which have nothing to do with anti-fascism (for being trade unionists etc). I would say that it is part of the risk of our type of politics and if we were not pissing the fash off in some way we would be doing something wrong. Obviously people need to be sensible and protect themselves and each other and sites like redwatch and the like needs to be attacked and taken down wherever possible, but I don't think the way to do that is through some "they're both as bad each other" bollocks. Being targetted by fash shouldn't be an occupational hazard, but unfortunately it siometimes is (although not really in most of the UK), and the way to combat that is surely to be sensible and take steps to protect yourself


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2012)

Look i dont agree with sites like red/fashwatch im not sure whats so hard to understand about that?

I dont think this thread is like either.

/end


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2012)

But you've been doing the same fashwatch have.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2012)

yes it's exactly the same.


----------



## krink (Jun 12, 2012)

Thought I'd have a look at redwatch after today's discussions and noticed they've just put up loads of pics of people I know. Wish I'd gone now...feeling left out


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 12, 2012)

I now appear on it, after MFE in Brighton. One old chap appears on there sitting on a bench, minding his own & reading the SW ffs. Cretins the lot of them.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 12, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Look i dont agree with sites like red/fashwatch im not sure whats so hard to understand about that?


 
Nothing. Just funny considering you've spent an age posting up photos of people on demos and facebook profiles yourself.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I now appear on it, after MFE in Brighton. One old chap appears on there sitting on a bench, minding his own & reading the SW ffs. Cretins the lot of them.


SW readers?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 12, 2012)

Yep.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2012)

krink said:


> Thought I'd have a look at redwatch after today's discussions and noticed they've just put up loads of pics of people I know. Wish I'd gone now...feeling left out


they've got an old picture of me on there (it was new when they put it up)

a mate of mine said he thought i was scary looking on there


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 12, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> SW readers?


Swingers Weekly


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 12, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Swingers Weekly


 
May as well have been as they pinch random images of random people off the net. Looking at the photo again, it's either Socialist or Socialist Worker (SW) the old fella is reading.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 12, 2012)

albionism said:


> EDL threaten The Selecter after Pauline Black denounces them
> at scooter rally.
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/769-edl-east-anglia-threaten-ska-band


 
uh oh, names all over that


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 13, 2012)

A few years back I bought a lambretta, I'd been riding scooters since I was 16, but had sold my last one when we moved to reading, but I had been 'off scene' for many years. Meeting todays scooterists was a revelation. Middle aged men, who never had the guts to be the real thing when they were kids, but now were playing at being MODS! Chrome dripping off brand new PXs and £3000 professionally reconditioned lambrettas, pot bellies, flight jackets and desert boots.
Everything was scrupulously 'genuine' and therefore utterly false. Even the despicable racist politics they mouthed was all a painful act, part of the Sunday afternoon hobby.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> In Manc there deffo is some fash leaning types on the scooter circuit. I spotted some in Llandudno last year then on me way home on the A55 passed a few waiting in a layby with a rather dishevelled look about them...ha


 
Several years ago there was the Posh as Fuck scooter club in Stockport and Cheshire which had strong links to the Nationalist Alliance and Wolfshook. Their main man was a fella called Staff who was working in the Tatooists in Underbank.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 13, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Several years ago there was the Posh as Fuck scooter club in Stockport and Cheshire which had strong links to the Nationalist Alliance and Wolfshook. Their main man was a fella called Staff who was working in the Tatooists in Underbank.


 I had an ink-ling that place was iffy


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 13, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> I had an ink-ling that place was iffy


tatts appalling!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 13, 2012)

the wolfs hook brotherhood! yet another far right fiasco that descended into murder!
'As did the Wolf’s Hook White Brotherhood gang who were founded by ex-BNP members claiming “We are NOT interested in any ‘in fighting’ that sadly happens within some right wing organisations.” [2] Then John Pakulski killed Mick Sanderson for canoodling with Pakulski’s semi-naked Mrs in 2006.'
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/cowards-sickos-and-weirdos/
unite the right!


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the wolfs hook brotherhood! yet another far right fiasco that descended into murder!
> 'As did the Wolf’s Hook White Brotherhood gang who were founded by ex-BNP members claiming “We are NOT interested in any ‘in fighting’ that sadly happens within some right wing organisations.” [2] Then John Pakulski killed Mick Sanderson for canoodling with Pakulski’s semi-naked Mrs in 2006.'
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/cowards-sickos-and-weirdos/
> unite the right!


 



In happier days.

Amongst others: Murderer left on second row, middle back row our man in the tattooists with out lambretta, on our next to him  right 'kruger' from the RVF.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 13, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> View attachment 20108
> 
> In happier days.
> 
> Amongst others: Murderer left on second row, middle back row our man in the tattooists with out lambretta, on our next to him right 'kruger' from the RVF.


Kruger being Adrian Brookes!!
I know Im carrying a bit more timber than I'd like but must be a strong framed scooter for the t**t from White Dragon tat parlour


----------



## krink (Jun 13, 2012)

re- redwatch. have a look at the update on North East reds and you'll see a woman who looks like she is just about to attack the fash photographer. have been reliably informed she was just a passer-by who took great exception to having some sweaty nazi twat getting in her face. heard she gave him a bollocking and so ends up on redwatch - it was when the edl/infidulls/nf attacked some kids and the RCG.

she's not a red but we could do with more like her to be honest!


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 13, 2012)

krink said:


> re- redwatch. have a look at the update on North East reds and you'll see a woman who looks like she is just about to attack the fash photographer. have been reliably informed she was just a passer-by who took great exception to having some sweaty nazi twat getting in her face. heard she gave him a bollocking and so ends up on redwatch - it was when the edl/infidulls/nf attacked some kids and the RCG.
> 
> she's not a red but we could do with more like her to be honest!


Krink...look at the thread for Manchster Reds....the FC United stuff, theres me and perhaps one other ringed who have been at it I suppose but the others in the shot have no link whatsoever. This scattergun attitude shows what t***s they are. In fact I saved those 2 BNP members arse in Blackpool because they were accompanied by youngsters and I didnt like the idea of them getting caught up. They were not chased off but they chose to skidaddle when people told them that the BNP shit doesnt fit the FC thang...derrrr....Over the years Ive tended to adopt a more 'social work' approach...doesnt always work but some who go along with the right wing shite can be victims of it as well...and end up regretting it....on the other hand can end up proper w*****s. No one size fits.


----------



## krink (Jun 13, 2012)

i know what you mean. edl had a big march in newcastle 2 years back, saw a few local kids/youths on that march but since then none of them have been involved in anything the edl/nf/bnp have done in public in the area. it's almost as if it will all die out in 20 years or so when the current fash thugs are all around 70 with one foot in the grave...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 13, 2012)

funny!
http://twitpic.com/9w2hvo


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 13, 2012)

Half the people on the Salford Reds bit of redwatch have absolutely nothing to do with anti-fascism. They're just random people off facebook.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Half the people on the Salford Reds bit of redwatch have absolutely nothing to do with anti-fascism. They're just random people off facebook.


Thats down to Tumulty and Fairhurst who would/are the first to complain of 'unfair' attention.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 14, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Half the people on the Salford Reds bit of redwatch have absolutely nothing to do with anti-fascism. They're just random people off facebook.


 
Amazes me the amount of blokes dressing up as women on those Facebook shots


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 14, 2012)

Malatesta reaches 100! Hurrah! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 14, 2012)

John "Snowy" Shaw gets 12 weeks in jail for letting a herd of Llama's that he owns starve to death

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...mal-ban-after-llamas-left-to-starve-1-4637332

Just out of curiosity, wasn't there rumours flying around that Shaw had informed on his comrades prior to the series of raids that took place on Infidels a few months ago? I remember seeing it alluded to on various EDL facebook accounts, but put it down to factional warfare.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 14, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> John "Snowy" Shaw gets 12 weeks in jail <snip>



Suspended for a year.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 14, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Suspended for a year.


 
Cheers.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 14, 2012)

This from a man who campaings against Halal as it's cruel


----------



## Badgers (Jun 14, 2012)

Loves his mum though blates


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 14, 2012)

ED EDL... ED EDL..............Emaciated Dead Llamas. This cunt is a fraud...talking of cruel Hilal slaughter...


----------



## manny-p (Jun 14, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> John "Snowy" Shaw gets 12 weeks in jail for letting a herd of Llama's that he owns starve to death
> 
> http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...mal-ban-after-llamas-left-to-starve-1-4637332
> 
> Just out of curiosity, wasn't there rumours flying around that Shaw had informed on his comrades prior to the series of raids that took place on Infidels a few months ago? I remember seeing it alluded to on various EDL facebook accounts, but put it down to factional warfare.


what a cunt. yep shitfront had a thread about it.


----------



## phildwyer (Jun 15, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Of course it's a spoof - and it's shit. Like i said.


 
i will do hole other  peice about fowl curse of the intelectule...


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 16, 2012)

If anyone here is close to or part of anti fascist networks in South Wales could you please PM me, I have an enquirey.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 17, 2012)

bad karma for llama harmer farmer! facepalmer!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 17, 2012)

didnt snowy previously claimed someone had nicked his llamas?
news just in, US prez not impressed: llama embalmer is no charmer sez obama!


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 17, 2012)

BFP meeting in Somerset on thursday next - Carroll, Robinson and Weston all promised. Weston there to suss out the chances of picking up UKIP/disillusioned tory members and voters - other two to make contact with the handful of bristol EDL. I expect the meeting will be in yeovil as re redirection point is the motorway services quite near there.


----------



## articul8 (Jun 17, 2012)

Vision of the above:


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 17, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> bad karma for llama harmer farmer! facepalmer!


quite alllaming


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 17, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> didnt snowy previously claimed someone had nicked his llamas?
> news just in, US prez not impressed: llama embalmer is no charmer sez obama!


favourite band..bananallama


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 17, 2012)

This made me laugh, look at bristol all on it's own!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 17, 2012)

The North East has Muslims so I don't know why they've avoided the 'war map'.

Could it perhaps be because EDL membership is somewhat pathetic in that region?


----------



## Termite Man (Jun 17, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> This made me laugh, look at bristol all on it's own!


 
comms routes?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 17, 2012)

Hang on, 2020? So this is predictive?


----------



## Termite Man (Jun 17, 2012)

I like their tactical awareness


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 17, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> comms routes?


south east looks like jimmy hill


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 17, 2012)

They're fucking nutters with terrible graphics skills.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 17, 2012)

right so the WDL and SDL :faepalm: can disband now then!

seriously thought that graphic was a pisstake by an anti


----------



## laptop (Jun 17, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> I like their tactical awareness


 
But all the "% others" have to do is seize Northamptonshire and Cheshire and they're routed


----------



## teqniq (Jun 17, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> John "Snowy" Shaw gets 12 weeks in jail for letting a herd of Llama's that he owns starve to death


 
What an utter cunt


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jun 18, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> comms routes?


 
So who are they communicating with?
Cumbria? (Loud drug dealer???), North Wales?? (Has the pig Farm moved?) and what looks like Andover?

What happened to Scotland? Did they go for independence and float off into the North Atlantic?

Alpaca me bags............


----------



## Rasklart (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm curious as to what credible data was used to create this map. Do you think maybe that chav in the video who hates the "Muslamic Law that the Iraqis are trying to force on our country" came up with these predictions?


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 18, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> This made me laugh, look at bristol all on it's own!


 
Oddly though, whilst they may have meant Bristol, they've coloured in right up into rural south gloucestershire up to the foot of the cotswolds, an area I know well, and an area that is noticable for it's complete lack of anything but white christian inhabitants.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 18, 2012)

Rasklart said:


> I'm curious as to what credible data was used to create this map. Do you think maybe that chav in the video who hates the "Muslamic Law that the Iraqis are trying to force on our country" came up with these predictions?


Ha! Ha! I know what you mean, what sort of idiot would publicly lump together all different sorts of people based on ill-informed social prejudices! Great post, i laughed and laughed and laughed!


----------



## Fedayn (Jun 18, 2012)

SDL had a bit of a demo Saturday. Plod moved an asylum seekers/refugee demo out of George Square and allowed SDL/Infidel types with anti-immigration banners to have a small protest. Then, after moving out of the square without plod tried to attack the Palestinian stall, chased a young lad with a Celtic top and threatened various people. For some reason the same 30-40 were reticent in steaming into 3 more than up for it lads in the city centre saying it's a liberty etc etc (only moments after trying to attack 1 lad on his own). Bit of a shift for them with the openly anti-immigration stuff though. 3 anti arrested and charged for shouting...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 18, 2012)

hey feds! they can only mobilise the same 30 or so each time. plod bit more lenient than the last demo - trousergate! The infidel/sdl faction are closer to Nf and not arsed aboot being called racist. they advertise it on their crap facebook pages in fact. antifascists need to number up. when theyre opposed by large numbers they crumble.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2012)




----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 18, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




My giddy fuck


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jun 19, 2012)

it's called satire RingDing, _you_ wouldn't understand...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 19, 2012)

snowy's llama denial statement over on VNN. they never take responsibility for their actions or stand by their convictions. of which there have been a great many. wasnt me, no, never ... whine whine no surrender err i mean ... just like mr tommy's video whinges. denial and self-pity - toxic combo.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 19, 2012)

cheez and crackers!
'when I fed the llamas it became apparent to me that they were being bullied for the food by the horses and to a lesser existent the donkeys.'
it wasnt me it was the donkeys! of course it was and it was the donkeys seig heiling on demos and downloading child porn and ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 19, 2012)

also: 'It's not in my nature to give evidence against anyone let alone a mate.' of course, the edl and infidels would never tell tales would they?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 19, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> This made me laugh, look at bristol all on it's own!


Where's the isle of wight gone?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Where's the isle of wight gone?


 
Islamified already


----------



## albionism (Jun 19, 2012)

Erm, it's there at the bottom-middle, is it not?
T'is the Isle of Man that's missing


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 19, 2012)

https://twitter.com/edltrobinson

Think Tommy was having a few drinks last night looking at his Twatter...



> Guns dont kill people islam does. Backward cult breeding hostility towards us. Stick that in ya islamaphobia meeting.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 19, 2012)

inflammatory statements? 'shocking' tweets? bit depserate.  is there a demo coming up?


----------



## Rasklart (Jun 19, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Where's the isle of wight gone?


 
It's not there in case their brown enemies think it's their secret pikey barracks - The Isle Of White.


----------



## claphamboy (Jun 19, 2012)

albionism said:


> Erm, it's there at the bottom-middle, is it not?
> T'is the Isle of Man that's missing


 
Yep, the IoW is clearly there.

No need to include the IoM, as it's not part of the UK.


----------



## pauliewanman (Jun 19, 2012)

missed the nae nazis/sdl demo , fuck fascism in this country , these cats shud be collected in a nice mingin sack and drowned in a sewer , ohhhhhhhhhh ayyyye  x


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jun 19, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://twitter.com/edltrobinson
> 
> Think Tommy was having a few drinks last night looking at his Twatter...


 
Looks like Tommy just took delivery of a large quantity of bolivian...errrm I mean pure English marching powder.... god only knows what he will be like in court!

Roll on a sharia free edl greater england.......... still at least the footie distracted them, till the hangover kicks in tomorrow.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2012)

interesting that 1 of the many 'denial tactics' of EDL is that antifascists start the violence yet few or no antifascists at stoke, remembrance day, oldham 'flash demo' etc. they are in a constant state of denial.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 20, 2012)

https://twitter.com/BeckiMarsh1/status/215223342628749314/photo/1

https://twitter.com/BeckiMarsh1/status/215223050587746304/photo/1

Casuals seem to be getting in the mood for Bristol....


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2012)

bristol is going to be fun! the EDL/Casuals rift is also still simmering along nicely. stabber marsh and mr tommy really did fall out. all the screengrabs point to conflict! shame.


----------



## Rasklart (Jun 20, 2012)

I think we can all agree the EDL aren't really nice, or smart. Or evolved.


----------



## albionism (Jun 20, 2012)

They will hopefully get a well earned battering in Bristol.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 20, 2012)

they wont tho, with 2-3 cops each to look after them nobody will get close.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 20, 2012)

Or evolved? What does that even mean?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 20, 2012)

What do people think bristol is?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 20, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Or evolved? What does that even mean?


They don't exist - apparently. Somehow.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What do people think bristol is?


 
a brigands' town full of rioters and reprobates sir!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Or evolved? What does that even mean?


as of, or appertaining to, the bogus darwinian concept of evil-ution!
http://toppun.com/Rainbow-Store/Gay-Pride-Pictures/Rainbow-Jesus_small.gif


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 20, 2012)

I think he swallowed an irony tablet and was trying to find a grammatically incorrect way of calling them dumb.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 20, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> This made me laugh, look at bristol all on it's own!


 Why is Cornwall white? The Cunts.


----------



## Rasklart (Jun 21, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I think he swallowed an irony tablet and was trying to find a grammatically incorrect way of calling them dumb.


I was at work, I had no time to think..


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2012)

surprisingly the EDL etc have not been protesting about this BNP-edo!
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1990/child-porn-murder-convictions-for-bnp-organiser-son


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 22, 2012)

Rasklart said:


> I was at work, I had no time to think..


Yes you did, you're just a thick fuck.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2012)

no surrender. oh, i just have!
http://twitpic.com/9z5b0b
grasses rife in CxF clowns.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:
			
		

> no surrender. oh, i just have!
> http://twitpic.com/9z5b0b
> grasses rife in CxF clowns.



The Big Mac meal is classic


----------



## teqniq (Jun 22, 2012)

'Declined making it large' lol

I am wondering if 'Olympic torch pasting through' is a Freudian slip of some sort.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2012)

so meeting up with cops to discuss things whilst accepting food gifts? isnt that grassing and accepting bribes?


----------



## Rasklart (Jun 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Yes you did, you're just a thick fuck.


 
A friendly guy, I'm sure.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 22, 2012)

Rasklart said:


> I was at work, I had no time to think..


given the quality of your other posts i'm not persuaded additional time would have improved your contribution.


----------



## Rasklart (Jun 22, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> given the quality of your other posts i'm not persuaded additional time would have improved your contribution.


 
I'm not an EDL specialist, to say the least. Or a comedian. I get paid to do other stuff..


----------



## Rasklart (Jun 22, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> given the quality of your other posts i'm not persuaded additional time would have improved your contribution.


And let's not forget, there's no need for the aggro from butchersapron.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> so meeting up with cops to discuss things whilst accepting food gifts? isnt that grassing and accepting bribes?


Even meeting is a no no...especially on his todd.


----------



## laptop (Jun 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> no surrender. oh, i just have!
> http://twitpic.com/9z5b0b
> grasses rife in CxF clowns.


 
That Chief Inspector's _far_ too good at his job


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2012)

Another anti EDL organising meeting this weekend. Bearing in mind when they had the last one have a guess when this one is scheduled for.


----------



## albionism (Jun 23, 2012)

Hitler's birthday?


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 23, 2012)

I'd make a wild guess, Sunday 7.30pm


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2012)

Sunday 7-9. Once can be put down to bad luck - twice?

Just missed Hitler big day a month or so back btw


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Even meeting is a no no...especially on his todd.


yeah he seems to be acting of his own accord. i know theres only a few of them but shouldnt there be a delagation rather than a 1 on 1? bit inconsitent that really.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Another anti EDL organising meeting this weekend. Bearing in mind when they had the last one have a guess when this one is scheduled for.


butchers, is this a UAF or general antifascist meeting? crap timing. even i wouldnae go and i HATE soccer teams!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2012)

funny!
http://twitpic.com/9zirgn


----------



## Badgers (Jun 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:
			
		

> funny!
> http://twitpic.com/9zirgn



Never take the large size meal


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> butchers, is this a UAF or general antifascist meeting? crap timing. even i wouldnae go and i HATE soccer teams!


Not UAF - just went and checked on the poster. It's mates of mine. I know you're reading this S. - what tf are you doing? 

edit: and why the hell are you using the SPD/Reichsbanner arrows as a symbol!!

UAF are doing their thing though 'we are bristol' a collection of vicars, students and notables. (See alo we are chelmsford, we are bury, we are fucked etc) - and i see that that noted bristolian Owen Jones, signed the statement. Nice of him to speak up for us. They did put on a John Carlos talk the other week but only printed 2 posters AND TOLD NO ONE ABOUT IT.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> so meeting up with cops to discuss things whilst accepting food gifts? isnt that grassing and accepting bribes?


 
The Police will normally ask for a meeting with those planning to to hold a demo. EDL tend to respond, UAF don't apparantly


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2012)

steps, their ridiculous claim of 'we go where we want, when we want' has yet again been shown to be bogus! quel surpise! 1 thing antifascism has got over organised fash marches is WE DONT need to speak to anyone apart from who going to be with us on the day. as for4 UAF plod tend to speak to them on the day and often have 'pens' for a coutner-demo. bristol is a silly idea!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not UAF - just went and checked on the poster. It's mates of mine. I know you're reading this S. - what tf are you doing?
> 
> edit: and why the hell are you using the SPD/Reichsbanner arrows as a symbol!!
> 
> UAF are doing their thing though 'we are bristol' a collection of vicars, students and notables. (See alo we are chelmsford, we are bury, we are fucked etc) - and i see that that noted bristolian Owen Jones, signed the statement. Nice of him to speak up for us. They did put on a John Carlos talk the other week but only printed 2 posters AND TOLD NO ONE ABOUT IT.


 
thanks butchers, just seen it on facebook. i assume local antifascists will do their own thing as usual.
and what SPD symbol? ours if rote front on the website!


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 23, 2012)

Three arrows pointing down to the left. See it all over europe post ww2.


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> funny!
> http://twitpic.com/9zirgn


 
Wise.


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 23, 2012)

NWI tried to stop a meeting in Manchester last night. Nothing happened tho. Pinkham was there.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> The Police will normally ask for a meeting with those planning to to hold a demo. EDL tend to respond, UAF don't apparantly


 
steps, they'd planned a flash demo but they have a snake in the grass who informed plod about it. naughty!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> NWI tried to stop a meeting in Manchester last night. Nothing happened tho. Pinkham was there.


their version:
http://twitpic.com/9zhu9c
pinkham off his usual patch as well eh? been told by 'a very reliable source' that someones got some naughty info on him! oh dear!


----------



## audiotech (Jun 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Three arrows pointing down to the left. See it all over europe post ww2.


 
And New York City, since 1993. Like in R.A.S.H.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 23, 2012)

Iron Front


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2012)

the schutzbund/reichsbanner thing seems fairly unique for a mainstream party paramilitary organisation. not come across other examples. are ther any? its like the labour party having the squads or summat.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 25, 2012)

brilliant infidel logic here. we are innocent so we have pleaded guilty!
http://twitpic.com/a0dzx0
just like richard price pleaded guilty to kid porn but was innocent. bernard holmes or Mr B attacked someone and left him with brain damage apparently. he just got out of jail and is about to go back. well done.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 25, 2012)

Haha. We waz stitched up but yeh, let's plea bargain.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 25, 2012)

deny deny deny. even when admitting it! brilliant.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> deny deny deny. even when admitting it! brilliant.


it is a novel legal strategy


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 25, 2012)

yes it is, but somehow doomed to failure methinks.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jun 26, 2012)

NWI and NF come together to attack Charity worker in Dewsbury earlier today http://networkedblogs.com/z8s23


----------



## albionism (Jun 26, 2012)

" Our movement has members of different colour and religion and our stance is to
oppose them all with equal determination "


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 26, 2012)

brierfield trial and casuals whining about pleading guilty when they are innocent - plus usual nonsense!
'The entire day yesterday was spent chatting shite and trying to justify placing Crasbos on the defendants, all of whom did nothing more than defend themselves against an attack by an armed mob. They have to go back today to be sentenced. It looks like most, if not all of them are going to be jailed, and also slapped with a CRASBO banning them from protesting against ANYTHING for 5 years.
The message the authorities is giving us is clear here people, they simply will not allow peaceful protest, and will do all they can to smash us and shut us up while they ruin our country and give our jobs away to ungrateful foreigners.'
its those pesky forrins to blame!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 26, 2012)

audiotech said:


> And New York City, since 1993. Like in R.A.S.H.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


>


Wow


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 26, 2012)

audiotech said:


> And New York City, since 1993. Like in R.A.S.H.


 
Columbian and Mexican RASH make the three arrows with their fingers gang sign style. 

(Index, middle and ring finger pointing in the direction of the arrows)


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2012)

So lots of people are using and misusing the iron front symbols as a sign of militancy despite the iron front not being miltant and all for show (not to mention being SPD ran and anti-KPD), and attacked by militants at the time on that basis?


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> So lots of people are using and misusing the iron front symbols as a sign of militancy despite the iron front not being miltant and all for show (not to mention being SPD ran and anti-KPD), and attacked by militants at the time on that basis?


 
Thats why I've never liked the symbol.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2012)

Which is also why i was laughing at my mates using it on their poster for the anti-edl meeting last sunday. Of all the people who should know the things bloody history it's them...obsessed as they are with anti-fascism.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> So lots of people are using and misusing the iron front symbols as a sign of militancy despite the iron front not being miltant and all for show (not to mention being SPD ran and anti-KPD), and attacked by militants at the time on that basis?


to be charitable, doesn't the reappropriation of a symbol which is then recontextualised take on a new meaning? like red wedge and el lissitzky's painting!!! http://rlv.zcache.com/beat_the_whit...481bd64c2df4fef802a3fd90cadbd2b_f0czm_400.jpg


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> to be charitable, doesn't the reappropriation of a symbol which is then recontextualised take on a new meaning? like red wedge and el lissitzky's painting!!! http://rlv.zcache.com/beat_the_whit...481bd64c2df4fef802a3fd90cadbd2b_f0czm_400.jpg


 
It's not recontextualised though, it's used quite clearly to suggest a continuity, to suggest that it's being used in the same way as the original.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 26, 2012)

brierfield mob weighed off:
'aussie dave jailed 47 weeks, Mr B 18 months, 3 others 37 weeks, all the rest suspended sentences. NFSE #edl.'
this is mr b, charming fellow. what a waste of life.
http://bitly.com/bundles/lutherblissett/b


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 26, 2012)

sorry butchers i was being ironic. we should always expect radical symbolism to be reused in the wrong context or for the wrong reasons. look at the dear old swastika and that horrid sid viscous !!!!!!!!!


----------



## BlackArab (Jun 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not UAF - just went and checked on the poster. It's mates of mine. I know you're reading this S. - what tf are you doing?
> 
> edit: and why the hell are you using the SPD/Reichsbanner arrows as a symbol!!
> 
> UAF are doing their thing though 'we are bristol' a collection of vicars, students and notables. (See alo we are chelmsford, we are bury, we are fucked etc) - and i see that that noted bristolian Owen Jones, signed the statement. Nice of him to speak up for us. They did put on a John Carlos talk the other week but only printed 2 posters AND TOLD NO ONE ABOUT IT.


 
re John Carlos, it was arranged at short notice. I personally put up posters went on Ujima, tweeted and emailed everyone I knew. Limited resources and time but efforts were made I can assure you.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> sorry butchers i was being ironic. we should always expect radical symbolism to be reused in the wrong context or for the wrong reasons. look at the dear old swastika and that horrid sid viscous !!!!!!!!!


What do you call a Morrocan sex pistol? Sid Viscous-cous.......God Save the Queen and her Fascist Tagine


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 27, 2012)

that ^ is a good one. for once!!!!


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 27, 2012)

Why Thank you Malatesta...Im flattered


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 1, 2012)

llama farmer at NF meeting in hull. EDL join up with radical sikhs.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167009/The-far-Right-leader-Sikh-headscarf-disturbing-anti-Muslim-alliance-EDL-joins-protesters-angry-grooming-girls.html#ixzz1zMLOTTT0
bizarre.


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 1, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> llama farmer at NF meeting in hull. EDL join up with radical sikhs.
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167009/The-far-Right-leader-Sikh-headscarf-disturbing-anti-Muslim-alliance-EDL-joins-protesters-angry-grooming-girls.html#ixzz1zMLOTTT0
> bizarre.


 
Not that bizarre, but bloody dangerous, EDL stirring-up shit between Sikhs & Muslims.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 1, 2012)

yeah but desperate moves it seems. EDL, infidels and casuals are well split. dewsbury testerday piss poor. good report here! http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/776-dull-edl-dewsbury-demo-turns-into-farce


----------



## albionism (Jul 1, 2012)

I read on EDL News that the Sikhs on the demo had actually fucked them off.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 1, 2012)

rather amusing:
Asked about the secret meeting, Mr Robinson said: ‘Who told you about that? We can’t comment on exactly what we will do with the Sikhs but we will do whatever we can to work together, raise awareness and combat the problem.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167009/The-far-Right-leader-Sikh-headscarf-disturbing-anti-Muslim-alliance-EDL-joins-protesters-angry-grooming-girls.html#ixzz1zMZW64ub


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 1, 2012)

yeah?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 2, 2012)

i remember one confused infidell-end or EDL poster asking the whereabouts of AFA and Red Action so they could confront them. good to see they are so on the ball.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 2, 2012)

HAHAHA! Eddie Izzard was in Red Action?!!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 2, 2012)

Why do the EDL want to confront red action? Were they Islamic extremists or something?


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 2, 2012)

time travelling muslamic rayguns?


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 2, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> HAHAHA! Eddie Izzard was in Red Action?!!


Cos Iz zard.....ang hes afa-ing a larf


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> HAHAHA! Eddie Izzard was in Red Action?!!


 
Bob Carolgees should have been


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 3, 2012)

He was in the SWP for a bit wasn't he? Bob I mean...


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 3, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> He was in the SWP for a bit wasn't he? Bob I mean...


 

Paper sales organiser Kirby branch


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 3, 2012)

this is bob with kirby SWP branch!


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 3, 2012)

* joins SWP *


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 3, 2012)

intersting view of things!
http://twitpic.com/a33i9a/full
they are talking up bristol and in full denial of any splits. we shall see on the day methinks.


----------



## krink (Jul 3, 2012)

i heard Bob split from his dog Spit when Spit joined Class War.


----------



## krink (Jul 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> intersting view of things!
> http://twitpic.com/a33i9a/full
> they are talking up bristol and in full denial of any splits. we shall see on the day methinks.


 
would be interested in a better copy of the newcastle pic. I was there taking pics all day long and afterward people on both sides were talking up to 2 thousand edl and me and my mate were like "really? was there another edl demo we didn't see?" cos we both said 700 - 1000 maximum. yes, it has bugged me for the last two years and yes i do need to get out more.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 3, 2012)

krink, its all about numbers with them - my firm is firmer than your firm etc. what they have actualy achieved is minimal. no grass roots organisations apart from demos, no clear political programme etc. the fluffy british freedom manifesto is contrary to edl behaviour:
'We support the use of 'zero tolerance' policing in areas where crime is of particular concern ...
A high proportion of crime is linked to the use of illegal drugs.'
they have achieved fuck all.


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> 'We support the use of 'zero tolerance' policing in areas where crime is of particular concern ...
> A high proportion of crime is linked to the use of illegal drugs.'


 
Which is ironic as crime is a particular concern wherever the EDL goes, and it seems a high proportion of EDL 'members' are linked to the use of illegal drugs.

Funny old world.


----------



## The Black Hand (Jul 3, 2012)

More on the recent EDL activities in newcastle (June/Jubilee); http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nort...-firework-attack-in-newcastle-72703-31303865/

He's a fekking moron, & it was a complete waste of time attacking such a small event with the combined far right forces in the North East, nothing at all in it for them, and in particular its more stupid to get locked up for nothing.


----------



## The Black Hand (Jul 3, 2012)

Just to add the far right appears to be doing 'unity' meetings in the NE...


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 3, 2012)

If the far right does as well with its 'unity' initiatives as the far left has its, then we have nothing to worry about.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 3, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> If the far right does as well with its 'unity' initiatives as the far left has its, then we have nothing to worry about.


 
We don't need to worry. There will never be a fash version of Proletarian Democracy.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2012)

The Black Hand said:


> More on the recent EDL activities in newcastle (June/Jubilee); http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nort...-firework-attack-in-newcastle-72703-31303865/
> He's a fekking moron, & it was a complete waste of time attacking such a small event with the combined far right forces in the North East, nothing at all in it for them, and in particular its more stupid to get locked up for nothing.


he chucks 2 bottles and a firework as well as being up for 'one charge of assault by beating and one count of using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with.' and all in front of sky telly. north eats infidels, the llama terminator and the NF are in cahoots and liverpool NF with peter tierney seem to be out and about but achieving nothing much.


----------



## krink (Jul 4, 2012)

mal, they've all been having 'unity' meetings together up here; nf, bnp, edl and assorted weirdo freaks. guess the tiny numbers means they have no choice. if they ever get any bigger i'm sure they'll go back to tearing each other apart. kevin 'erectile dysfunction problem' scott told all on his blog. i think he likes you btw.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2012)

they will end up with usual infighting, all of em want to be adolf, no one wants to be eva. the NF/infidels 1st meeting ended up with them fighting each other i remember. snowy spoke at hull nf meeting the other day but he has lost a lot of cred over llama-gate. however,with members of this calibre we should be very afraid!
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nort...-firework-attack-in-newcastle-72703-31303865/


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2012)

you got a link for scotts thing krink?


----------



## krink (Jul 4, 2012)

no, but i can tell you his blog address


----------



## krink (Jul 4, 2012)

it's civilliberty dot org dot uk though no real point breaking it, I'm sure he links to urban in one of his posts!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 4, 2012)

I recently got my first online death threat 

When I found out who probably wrote it I was (Kim Gandy) quite disappointed, but still you never forget your first one. 

It was an hilarious page that lasted about 3 days, flooded with people "exposed" laughing at it - quite a few cases of sheer wrong identity, one bloke said to be my "brother" because he had the same name.

What was the shocking expose on me? That 4 years ago I did a little youtube video to up the student vote in a ward election. Apparently I spend all my time putting patriots in danger. Who knew?

Anyhow, it put me in mind of this severe critique and warning shot against all who roam cyberspace deriding Johnny Fash and his ilk:

http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/pedo-loving-lefties-exposed/


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 4, 2012)

Tray Guevara


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 4, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/pedo-loving-lefties-exposed/


 
10/10 for the lols


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 4, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I recently got my first online death threat
> 
> When I found out who probably wrote it I was (Kim Gandy) quite disappointed, but still you never forget your first one.
> 
> ...


Taquila?


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 4, 2012)

Never mind.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 4, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> 10/10 for the lols



Thank you. Though many don't get it and it aint perfect, the fash who get it generally hate it and lots of anti fash like it and push it, which is nice. Over 5000 hits in about 6 weeks.

Only one anti fash has said it's shit outright. A rather grumpy urbanite. Can anyone guess who?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 4, 2012)

It is shit


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 4, 2012)

Seriously that makes bignose's puns look sophisticated, it is embarrassing!



> lots of anti fash like it and push it, which is nice. Over 5000 hits in about 6 weeks.


 
numerous pms of support


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't get it


----------



## audiotech (Jul 5, 2012)

If that's a typical example, then death threats are pretty lame, as well as shit these days.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 5, 2012)

wtf - on the liveraf site (leaving aside the fact that it's been copied from an email doing the rounds years ago, that the Dr of political science who was supposed to have wrote it isn't a Dr of political science, isn't a Dr of anything, in fact isn't that named person at all but a corporate exec with a different name)

*FOURTEEN DEFINING CHARACTERISTICS OF FASCISM*


----------



## JimW (Jul 5, 2012)

Is that a rip-off of Umberto Eco? http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 5, 2012)

If only it was.


----------



## JimW (Jul 5, 2012)

Must confess only scanned it and saw it had fourteen points too.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 5, 2012)

That piss-take blog is shite.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> wtf - on the liveraf site (leaving aside the fact that it's been copied from an email doing the rounds years ago, that the Dr of political science who was supposed to have wrote it isn't a Dr of political science, isn't a Dr of anything, in fact isn't that named person at all but a corporate exec with a different name)
> 
> *FOURTEEN DEFINING CHARACTERISTICS OF FASCISM*


 
do these really define fascism?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 5, 2012)

Someone connected with liveraf apparently thought so. How though. How.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Someone connected with liveraf apparently thought so. How though. How.


 
Didn't someone mention that they are under new ownership?


----------



## cantsin (Jul 5, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Thank you. Though many don't get it and it aint perfect, the fash who get it generally hate it and lots of anti fash like it and push it, which is nice. Over 5000 hits in about 6 weeks.
> 
> Only one anti fash has said it's shit outright. A rather grumpy urbanite. Can anyone guess who?


 
have you thought about actually getting Bignose involved for anti-fash comedy dream team super lols ? antifa's answer to a John Bishop and John Bishop double act lolocaust


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 5, 2012)

Jerry Hicks call on state to ban EDL march.


----------



## krink (Jul 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Jerry Hicks call on state to ban EDL march.


Well, I'm happy that someone (gary hopkins?) had the sense to see why it's not a good idea to ask the state to ban marches. do they not realise if they ban edl march then their little uaf/whatever march is next - are these people that thick or am I missing something here?

By the way I read it three friggin times looking for hicks....then i finally saw him


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 5, 2012)

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...nley_man_charged_with_six_terrorism_offences/

Might be totally wrong, but I seem to recall some of the NWI lot getting raided in lancashire late last year. Wonder if this is related?

Niall Florence he's called, does that ring any bells for anyone?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

krink said:
			
		

> By the way I read it three friggin times looking for hicks....then i finally saw him



Hicks Boson.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 5, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Hicks Boson.


 
genius


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 5, 2012)

Cheers.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 5, 2012)

Cost £5 billion though - and are we sure it's him?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 6, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...nley_man_charged_with_six_terrorism_offences/
> Niall Florence he's called, does that ring any bells for anyone?


he signed a petition to free mr tommy the political prisoner. petition is dated sept 7th 2011 which wd be the time mr tommy was nicked at tower hamlets, did a 'hunger strike' between breakfast and elevenses then got a poorly tummy from a halal nandos on release. a political prisoner indeed. he broke his bail conditions for, i think, the blackburn headbutt fiasco. the infidels are centred round balckburn/burnley it seems and are notorious for being nicked. a bunch got sent down just recently for what they claim was the MEP house visit but was in fact an armed brawl with some asian local youth. mr B is the err... top man and a constant visitor to HMP. a loser.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Didn't someone mention that they are under new ownership?


liverAF have been a bunch of busy bees probably more than most over the last year. the main guy PD stepped down i think as he was getting a lot of abuse and threats from liam 'likes em young' pinkham and other NF/infidels. good luck to LiverAF!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 6, 2012)

daily mail scaremongering! the casuals are coming! scary stabber marsh and his angles! eeek!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...spreading-hate-High-Street.html#ixzz1zlcv5YEn
edit: oh, its from 2010!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Didn't someone mention that they are under new ownership?


 
http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2012/0...d-fascism-rally-march-in-liverpool-21st-july/


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2012/0...d-fascism-rally-march-in-liverpool-21st-july/


 
That's what I mean The James Larkin Society, sure someone said that republicans have taken it over.

Bit of a confused event for its title inviting McFadden and UAF?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 6, 2012)

i dont think anyone from liverpool post on here to clarify do they?


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 6, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> That's what I mean The James Larkin Society, sure someone said that republicans have taken it over.
> 
> Bit of a confused event for its title inviting McFadden and UAF?


Alec McFadden let my son down at a disciplinary hearing a few weeks ago by failing to turn up to represent him. As a father himself Im sure he can understand if it happened to his own kids how he might possibilly feel. I dont know the guy that much but he's always on the platform on these types of things.....but couldnt make the effort in my sons case. He ignored calls and texts and offered no explanation for his action. He was prepared to let my son face the HSBC on his own. Shame on him and in my opinion his behaviour was reprehensible. He can turn up for gigs like this but couldnt be arsed to take an hour or two out to help my son.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 6, 2012)

ah, the glamour and glitz of antifascism supercedes doing your actual job eh? it's a wonderrful life ...


----------



## audiotech (Jul 6, 2012)

I met and had the displeasure of speaking to the man in question at an anti-fascist meeting back in the 80's. Not an experience I wished to repeat, nor likely to repeat ever again. A political hack of the worst kind IMO.


----------



## krink (Jul 6, 2012)

is this the same alec mcfadden originally from the north east? his boy martyn runs a sunderland afc fanzine/clothing thing.


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 6, 2012)

krink said:


> is this the same alec mcfadden originally from the north east? his boy martyn runs a sunderland afc fanzine/clothing thing.


Thats the one. You know what krink Ive had at least half a dozen PM's today telling me stories about him. What upset me most was watching me lad walk into the HSBC building in Salford on his jack after I dropped him off. As it happened I ended up catching him up and going in with him.... and after a bit of cajoling with their HR( being an acredited steward...although in another Union) they eventually agreed.I sat in on the hearing. Letter box slit mouth HR woman and corporate smiling assasin investigator guy.....absolute stitch up merchants. Im not saying it'd made any difference but I tell you your man McFadden who makes a handy living from the movement made me feel that when it really comes down to it he's one of them types totally just out for themselves.


----------



## Termite Man (Jul 6, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Thats the one. You know what krink Ive had at least half a dozen PM's today telling me stories about him. What upset me most was watching me lad walk into the HSBC building in Salford on his jack after I dropped him off. As it happened I ended up catching him up and going in with him.... and after a bit of cajoling with their HR( being an acredited steward...although in another Union they eventually agreed) I sat in on the hearing. Letter box slit mouth HR woman and corporate smiling assasin investigator.....absolute stitch up. Im not saying it'd made any difference but I tell you your man McFadden who makes a handy living from the movement made me feel that when it really comes down to it he's one of them types totally just out for themselves.


the bloke sounds like a cunt.


----------



## fiannanahalba (Jul 6, 2012)

Alec looks after Alec.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 7, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> That's what I mean The James Larkin Society, sure someone said that republicans have taken it over.
> 
> Bit of a confused event for its title inviting McFadden and UAF?


 
James Larkin Society is Sinn Fein isn't it?

Doesn't surprise me that Alec and UAF would be invited. He's been to them before.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

krink said:
			
		

> is this the same alec mcfadden originally from the north east? his boy martyn runs a sunderland afc fanzine/clothing thing.



There seems to be a bit about him (or someone of identical name) in the red watch preamble, denying that them posting up his details had any connection with him being assaulted or some such, and then denying that he'd been assaulted at all which naturally leads one to suspect as an admission of involvement.

E2a actually it just says Mr Mcfadden but a guardian article names him as alec.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> llama farmer at NF meeting in hull. EDL join up with radical sikhs.
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2167009/The-far-Right-leader-Sikh-headscarf-disturbing-anti-Muslim-alliance-EDL-joins-protesters-angry-grooming-girls.html#ixzz1zMLOTTT0
> bizarre.


 
Wonderful comment from that, probably my favourite ever Daily Mail comment in fact:



> What's disturbing I for one am fed up with these fanatical muslims trying to condemn Christianity with the help gay marriage government sympathisers.
> - Royston Amphlett, Bournemouth Dorset , 01/7/2012 13:07


----------



## Termite Man (Jul 7, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Wonderful comment from that, probably my favourite ever Daily Mail comment in fact:


 

those comments are fucking awful, and the ratings are shit as well, even one that blames it on political correctness has a negative rating purely because there is no mention of evil muslims in it ( I assume) .


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 7, 2012)

this is hilarious. it has to be a joke ... but apparently not!
http://twitpic.com/a4wjjf


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> this is hilarious. it has to be a joke ... but apparently not!
> http://twitpic.com/a4wjjf


 
Oh, FFS. 

Why two buses and not one bus and one tube train?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> this is hilarious. it has to be a joke ... but apparently not!
> http://twitpic.com/a4wjjf


What The Fuck? The EDL plumb new depths in cluelessness.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It is shit


Hmmm 'the day satire caught cancer' pretty neatly sums it up!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 7, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Only one anti fash has said it's shit outright. A rather grumpy urbanite. Can anyone guess who?


 
Because, funny or not, it attacks what you assume to be their intelligence rather than their politics.

It's like those wartime songs. Hitler has only got one ball. That won us the war against the far right that did. And nobody was ever on the far right in England ever again.


----------



## albionism (Jul 8, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> this is hilarious. it has to be a joke ... but apparently not!
> http://twitpic.com/a4wjjf


hahahaha


----------



## kenny g (Jul 8, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (Jul 8, 2012)

SENIOR officers are rethinking how English Defence League marches will be policed after discovering they *could be* targets for bombing campaigns by Muslim extremists.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/331453

Edl seem to think the guys arrested last week where on the way to blow them up at Desbury....


----------



## Termite Man (Jul 8, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> SENIOR officers are rethinking how English Defence League marches will be policed after discovering they *could be* targets for bombing campaigns by Muslim extremists.
> 
> http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/331453
> 
> Edl seem to think the guys arrested last week where on the way to blow them up at Desbury....


 

Fuck. Thats great propaganda for the EDL then.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 8, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Fuck. Thats great propaganda for the EDL then.


 
Isn't it just.


----------



## krink (Jul 8, 2012)

was in the mirror too asking if they were off to attack edl march.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bomb-in-car-boot-on-m1-police-1135645


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 8, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> Fuck. Thats great propaganda for the EDL then.


 
It's more than likely bollocks, but will wait for the police to say something before i take notice of the EDL or red tops.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 8, 2012)

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/11/19/uk-britain-edl-militancy-idUKTRE6AI2H420101119

who would have thunk it?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 8, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It's more than likely bollocks, but will wait for the police to say something before i take notice of the EDL or red tops.


 
Doesn't really matter whether it's bollocks or not, it's in the news & it gives the far right the spunk grenades.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Because, funny or not, it attacks what you assume to be their intelligence rather than their politics.
> 
> It's like those wartime songs. Hitler has only got one ball. That won us the war against the far right that did. And nobody was ever on the far right in England ever again.


 
It happens to attack quite a lot of the double standards, warped logic, baseless hatred and paranoia which underpin in the politics as well as being expressed through them.

I suspect a lot of critics jump to a conclusion after a paragraph or two and don't bother any further, which is fine in itself but a not a solid basis to criticise.

People say that it derides intelligence, in fact the spelling and vocabulary tend to be of greater quality than that of the average EDLer I have experienced. I looked through it again last night - vast amounts of words are correctly spelled. There is a structure to each item that one rarely sees in patriot tracts.

The syntax and grammar are pretty garbled, but again not massively disproportionate to the target.

As discussed ad naus. previously: I honestly do not judge a person by literacy standards.

But the very low standards in national language use from so many nationalists is as reprehensible in hypocrisy as it is laughable.

Some EDL sympathisers use to have an excuse, before their true nature became obvious and when people muttered that they "have a point" about (blaspheming) "islamic" fundamentalists.

What remains is almost uniformly disgusting and yes, often very dim.

Dim people: Not a problem

Dim bigots: Problem

Intelligent bigots: An arguably bigger problem, but the fundamental paranoia and double standards tend to remain equally dim.

Intelligence is founded on the ability to appropriately discriminate from information received.

Bigotry is founded on inappropriate discrimination.

In such sense it could be said that there is no such thing as a truly intelligent bigot.

In any case, no amount of derision is more than they deserve for their lies, hatred and violence.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 9, 2012)

Citizen66

_It's like those wartime songs. Hitler has only got one ball. That won us the war against the far right that did. And nobody was ever on the far right in England ever again.
_Clearly no one would suggest that humour (or attempts at it one happens not to find it funny) wins wars, though it can be very effective politically and is a useful tool for doing so.
PG Wodehouse was pretty tory overall I expect, but his depiction of "Spode" will have been pretty useful in ridiculing fascism to a certain demographic of reader. 

There are stacks of examples, humour is famous for it's part in politics. I struggle to even see why you are being so sarcastic about it.


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## butchersapron (Jul 9, 2012)

Because it's shit. Really shit.


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## The Black Hand (Jul 9, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Because it's shit. Really shit.


 
you know, I do not think its shit. I've had a look and it reminds me of the way EDL types have posted, not them all, but certainly a significant number. Taffboys thoughtfull comments are appropriate. I will say that the length of the post is the only thing that gives it away perhaps, it seems to be longer than I can remember far right idiots are capable of.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 9, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Because it's shit. Really shit.


You not liking it is fine Butchers, and I am as ever open to your guidance on how exactly to improve as a human being. Most appropriate would be a link to your materiel.

But you have made no specific critique beyond that, such critique as has been made I have answered at least adequately. It does speak to the politics, it is no more incorrect in terms of literacy than those it takes the piss out of, though in different ways at different times.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 9, 2012)

The Black Hand said:


> you know, I do not think its shit. I've had a look and it reminds me of the way EDL types have posted, not them all, but certainly a significant number. Taffboys thoughtfull comments are appropriate. I will say that the length of the post is the only thing that gives it away perhaps, it seems to be longer than I can remember far right idiots are capable of.


 
What interests me is that the more people are routinely familiar with trawling through EDL bilge, the more they like the blog at least when they realise it is a spoof.

Perhaps it is the in-jokes, but I think they also recognise some of the specific themes in the paranoia and warped logic that could escape more casual readers.


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## butchersapron (Jul 9, 2012)

It's shit. Total shit.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 9, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's shit. Total shit.


Seconded


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 9, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What interests me is that the more people are routinely familiar with trawling through EDL bilge.


 
I find that neither interesting nor surprising, par for the course really. Its not your exaggerating bad spelling and grammar that makes it shit. its the fact that you are taking the piss out of illiteracy that makes it shit and no amount of waffle and wank justifications will ever change that. That you continue to misunderstand this, or claim to, makes you either dishonest or a moron.


----------



## The Black Hand (Jul 9, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I find that neither interesting nor surprising, par for the course really. Its not your exaggerating bad spelling and grammar that makes it shit. its the fact that you are taking the piss out of illiteracy that makes it shit and no amount of waffle and wank justifications will ever change that. That you continue to misunderstand this, or claim to, makes you either dishonest or a moron.


 
I do not accept this critique. The aim you are trying to give taffboy is neither the stated aim, or the hidden aim, its one that you wish is true or want to argue for whatever reason. I DO think the article is satire, but whether some people are intelligent enough to get it is an entirely different question. You have to assume its written for a capable audience, and one that is more genorous than your over the top negative critique (same as Butchers ad nauseum), on its own terms and not yours. There are many other and more worthy targets that deserve critique than Taffboys effort. In short, do try to be more selective, and appreciate what is being attempted.


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## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i dont think anyone from liverpool post on here to clarify do they?


 
I don't really know much about the The James Larkin Society, other than they have had a rally and march for a number of years now and it has been made up of individuals from a fairly wide cross-section of republican and left organisations. After events in the city in February at an Irish community parade (widely discussed on here if i remember correctly) and other activity by far-right groups in the city, a call has gone out for a big turn up. Indeed, in the last couple of days threats have been made by the usual suspects in their many splinter groups that they are coming to Liverpool to disrupt this march as it is the "IRA"

I'll double check this forum - and if someone hasn't already, I'll post the call out for the 21st as a separate thread.


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## The Black Hand (Jul 10, 2012)

here's some more satire; http://classwar-uk.blogspot.co.uk/p/one-for-kids.html
I hope you like it and please do comment upon it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> I don't really know much about the The James Larkin Society, other than they have had a rally and march for a number of years now and it has been made up of individuals from a fairly wide cross-section of republican and left organisations. After events in the city in February at an Irish community parade (widely discussed on here if i remember correctly) and other activity by far-right groups in the city, a call has gone out for a big turn up. Indeed, in the last couple of days threats have been made by the usual suspects in their many splinter groups that they are coming to Liverpool to disrupt this march as it is the "IRA"
> 
> I'll double check this forum - and if someone hasn't already, I'll post the call out for the 21st as a separate thread.


 
brilliant, thanks for the heads up. the fash are hopelessly splintered but they will unite for anything vaguely irish republican. february was bad but in my experience most antifash do's since have been well attended as it was a bit of a wake up call and the fash havent mobilised much since - resorting to usual infighting etc. liverpool are under a wee bit of pressure it seems - dont know anyone there! - and a few punters were attacked after an antifascist gig at the weekend. nothing serious though and more down to inadequate stewarding and letting people leave on their own. hopefully a good turnout from antifash and republicans will materialise next week. i'll contact LiverAF for comments the now. others on here will know more about the different irish orgs - demu, joe, liamO - than me.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Isn't it just.


 
You could almost, if you were a cynic, imagine some Old Bill EDL sympathiser fabricating that.


----------



## The Black Hand (Jul 10, 2012)

http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/710066 Community Protests against EDL


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## bignose1 (Jul 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> brilliant, thanks for the heads up. the fash are hopelessly splintered but they will unite for anything vaguely irish republican. february was bad but in my experience most antifash do's since have been well attended as it was a bit of a wake up call and the fash havent mobilised much since - resorting to usual infighting etc. liverpool are under a wee bit of pressure it seems - dont know anyone there! - and a few punters were attacked after an antifascist gig at the weekend. nothing serious though and more down to inadequate stewarding and letting people leave on their own. hopefully a good turnout from antifash and republicans will materialise next week. i'll contact LiverAF for comments the now. others on here will know more about the different irish orgs - demu, joe, liamO - than me.


 Didnt something happen at last Fridays benefit in Liverpool??


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## LiverAF (Jul 10, 2012)

Hi all
Just created an account on here following an email from Malatesta re the issues over the last few pages of this thread. 

*One,* I noticed was issues with re content of the blog, and someone referring to it as a "piece of shit". We have many contributors to the blog, and there is a mixture of news re-posts and original articles. Not everyone is going to like or agree with everything we post, fine, but it would be strange if they did. Yes we get plenty of criticism, but we had close to 50,000 hits in June, so presumably someone is interested.

*Two*, yes PD has dropped out of LiverAF and other activism, for a variety of reasons.

*Three*, NO, we have not been 'taken over' by Irish Republicans. Yes, we have Irish Republican members, and yes we are prepared to work with the wider Irish Republican movement on anti-fascism. Irish Republican involvement came directly after events in February. Four days after the march/fascist victory in Liverpool, the Fash stated that they intended on attacking an Occupy GA. We had upwards of thirty people from the Irish community come down to the meeting site and help with security. The Fash made a quick getaway. The relationship with the Irish Republicans started there really.

*Five*, yes, last Friday there were assaults on people who attended a LiverAF fundraising gig. The attacks took place whilst people were on their way to the gig, rather than coming home. The fascists (20 NWI/NF) had been touring the town centre and pubs in the hours leading up to the gig, looking for people, and they managed to spot a few. The local Fash (which includes a sizeable contingent from Wigan) are absolutely obsessed with LiverAF, and specific individuals. They have launched something called 'operation Uncle Joe', and the attack on the gig goers is the first stage of the operation (apparently). 'Uncle Joe' refers to Joe Stalin, because of course, we are all rabid stalinists. 

*Six*, The James Larkin march. LiverAF have had nothing to do with the organising of the march, but as it has an anti-fascist theme this year, we have been invited, and will be attending. Predictably, the fash have immediately decided that this is an IRA march. Anything that is remotely 'Irish' is deemed as IRA. Irish bars, are referred to as IRA bars. We have an Irish anarchist in LiverAF, and whenever he speaks at demos, the abuse he gets it unbelievable. The march was organised by the James Larkin Society, the local TUC, and UAF. The fash are mobilising nationally for this. They will get less people than the Feb march because that was commemorating an IRA volunteer (if my memory serves me correctly) this is not, and is an anti-fascist march and rally. I still expect them to get at least 200 people into Liverpool. I am not well up on Irish/sectarian issues, but it seems like there is a massive orange lodge presence in Liverpool, who will also decide it is an IRA march, and turn up. As an aperitif, the is a orangeman march through Liverpool on thursday this week, and I know that the Irish Republicans are planning on making a disruptive appearance, which will add extra spice for the 21st. The fash are determined to stop the march, and are planning to occupy the start off point hours before we meet, so that plans have to be changed. The organisers of the march are DETERMINED that the march will not be stopped or re-routed this time.


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## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

LiverAF said:


> Hi all
> Just created an account on here following an email from Malatesta re the issues over the last few pages of this thread.
> 
> *One,* I noticed was issues with re content of the blog, and someone referring to it as a "piece of shit". We have many contributors to the blog, and there is a mixture of news re-posts and original articles. Not everyone is going to like or agree with everything we post, fine, but it would be strange if they did. Yes we get plenty of criticism, but we had close to 50,000 hits in June, so presumably someone is interested.


 
It's this that's being called shit, nothing whatsoever to do with/about liveraf.


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## LiverAF (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's this that's being called shit, nothing whatsoever to do with/about liveraf.


 
Ah my mistake, sorry, I didnt go far enough back on the thread


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## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's this that's being called shit, nothing whatsoever to do with/about liveraf.


No worries, welcome to the forums.


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## cantsin (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You not liking it is fine Butchers, and I am as ever open to your guidance on how exactly to improve as a human being. Most appropriate would be a link to your materiel.
> 
> But you have made no specific critique beyond that, such critique as has been made I have answered at least adequately. It does speak to the politics, it is no more incorrect in terms of literacy than those it takes the piss out of, though in different ways at different times.


 
you're seriously deluded mate, it's utter garbage, deeply unfunny, politically questionable, and now we actually have a Liv AF poster coming on here confusing comments made about your 'blog' with what they're doing . Waste of time / space, and as for your 'show us a link to your material' comment to BA, embarassing...


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## sunnysidedown (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's this that's being called shit


 
Christ, it tells you something when I think I would rather have an admitedly lively, and no doubt angry, pint with your average EDL sympathiser, than a beer with the knacker who wrote that.


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## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 10, 2012)

LiverAF said:


> Ah my mistake, sorry, I didnt go far enough back on the thread


 
come on, it's only 292 pages long ;-)


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## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

liverAF! thanks for the clarity, mucho obligado!
1/ liverAF blog. well i check it everyday for a start!
2/ just concerned over threats to PD flying about. nothing unusual in that from those semi-tards.
3/ re: republicans. the same people attacking AFs are attacking republican 'ira terrierists' so some solidarity is very much required and joint stewarding.
4/ there is no number 4.
5/ usual fash tactics. easy pickings to and from gigs. re: the wigan lot, i assume it is the 'RVF' or BFF or whatever they are calling themselves now. is 'wigan mike' heaton back then? there was also the pinkham relationship with kim from BFF as well. see malatesta blog etc.
6/ dunno about 200. there are a lot of splits between EDL/casuals/Infidels/NF factions.
7/ hello! and welcome to urban


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## Quartz (Jul 10, 2012)

Three arrested for planning to bomb EDL march.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18777992


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 10, 2012)

should be given a fucking community award.


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## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> should be given a fucking community award.


For giving the edl and the fundies both exactly what they want?


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## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

hmmm ... not sure about this. what were they gonna do - a wild bunch re-enactment on the streets of dewsbury. sounds very unlikely. they may have had equipment and some anti-EDL lit but its a bit sensationalist. have they admitted it or just been accused?


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## krink (Jul 10, 2012)

Quartz said:


> Three arrested for planning to bomb EDL march.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18777992


 
Stephen and his edl lot will be over the moon with this - just what they needed as their numbers are flagging.


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## krink (Jul 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> hmmm ... not sure about this. what were they gonna do - a wild bunch re-enactment on the streets of dewsbury. sounds very unlikely. they may have had equipment and some anti-EDL lit but its a bit sensationalist. have they admitted it or just been accused?


 
it's all 'alleged' at the moment.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

hmm... how many antifascists here have been 'accused' of stuff at demos? wee bit sensationalist for plod to release such info so quickly. is it a case of 'look how well we're doing really' after the M6 fiasco last week? or not.


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## LiverAF (Jul 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> liverAF! thanks for the clarity, mucho obligado!
> 1/ liverAF blog. well i check it everyday for a start!
> 2/ just concerned over threats to PD flying about. nothing unusual in that from those semi-tards.
> 3/ re: republicans. the same people attacking AFs are attacking republican 'ira terrierists' so some solidarity is very much required and joint stewarding.
> ...


 
1, good stuff!
2, Yeah, they really targeted him and his partner, and claim they wont stop just because he has dropped out.
3, yeah, there will be some joint stewarding
4, far too complex for me to comment on
5, there is someone I recognise as being RVF, but the the majority seem to be from a 'lively' NF branch. There are a few who look like extras from romper stomper, and I seem to recall that Wigan was a particular hot-spot for B&H members (when I saw the leaked membership list last year / earlier this year). I have not seen Wigan Mike though.
6, I wasn't suggesting that the 200 would be all fash as in (CXF, NWI, NF, BNP, EDL etc) but would be a similar make-up to the clowns we had in Feb, i.e,. former soldiers, and royal legion types with no fascist affiliation as such, orangemen (of which there is a big presence in Liverpool), many of which are not fascists, but will join in because its against the IRA, and many other assorted 'loyalist' types. In February, there must have been more people wearing Rangers T-shirts in Liverpool than in Glasgow. So, they will be a very mixed bunch, but with a common enemy (for the day)
7, Thanks


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jul 10, 2012)

krink said:


> it's all 'alleged' at the moment.


 
Well they have been charged with plotting to carry out an attack with the EDL being specifically mentioned and claims of weapons, including guns and a home made explosive device being found.

So it seems pretty serious.


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> For giving the edl and the fundies both exactly what they want?





malatesta32 said:


> hmm... how many antifascists here have been 'accused' of stuff at demos? wee bit sensationalist for plod to release such info so quickly. is it a case of 'look how well we're doing really' after the M6 fiasco last week? or not.


 Routine stop is another way of saying........theyve had a grass in the camp. So obviously the plod had it all btr.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> For giving the edl and the fundies both exactly what they want?


 
no, though that is a sad side-effect.

please don't treat my flippant comments as serious, it makes me feel foolish.


----------



## krink (Jul 10, 2012)

Stoat Boy said:


> Well they have been charged with plotting to carry out an attack with the EDL being specifically mentioned and claims of weapons, including guns and a home made explosive device being found.
> 
> So it seems pretty serious.


 
Sorry, should have said it was the target that was 'alleged'.


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## Stoat Boy (Jul 10, 2012)

krink said:


> Sorry, should have said it was the target that was 'alleged'.


 

Which makes them releasing it/leaking it even more puzzling. Not sure what there is to be gained from that sort of information at this stage unless its just media speculation but I cannot see that.

Me thinking out loud: If you charge somebody with conspiracy (which I assume has happened here) does the charge have to include who or what you were conspiring against ?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

Odd how stoaty just turns up again today.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I find that neither interesting nor surprising, par for the course really. Its not your exaggerating bad spelling and grammar that makes it shit. its the fact that you are taking the piss out of illiteracy that makes it shit and no amount of waffle and wank justifications will ever change that. That you continue to misunderstand this, or claim to, makes you either dishonest or a moron.


 
I am not justifying or denying. It is what it is - a pastiche in one sense. If the spelling was correct and erudite it would be less realistic to the target. It is not taking the piss out of illiteracy it is taking the piss out of illiterate bigots who have the raw fucking nerve to preach this and that about English while being utterly shit in their use of English. 

Further, as I have said, the literacy levels of the stuff are probably higher if anything than those of the target. I am flattering them and arguably piss taking less than I could - though that would make it less readable and more over reliant on that aspect. 

I may well tone down the mis spellings. It is certainly the most frequent criticism by far.

This is a problem with satire (though I am not at all comparing myself to great satirists but can only cite ones people have heard of): Did Spitting Image take the piss out of Kinnocks Welsh accent? Did that make it racist? 

I dunno. 

Speech impediments, physical tics, plenty of things are used in humour with and without liberal minded defences. 

My natural liberal inclinations do tend to go out the window where stupid nasty fascists are concerned, but some liberals are more keen to critique their critics. I understand that.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

It's just shit. A total embarrassment.


----------



## krink (Jul 10, 2012)

The alleged target was already mentioned speculatively in the press at the weekend so maybe it's just the bbc following the previous reports.

As far as I know, conspiracy charges don't have to name the people you conspired with but they will have to say what you were going to do(or did)/law you were conspiring to break (source: bitter experience)


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

> It is not taking the piss out of illiteracy it is taking the piss out of illiterate bigots who have the raw fucking nerve to preach this and that about English while being utterly shit in their use of English.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 10, 2012)

sunnysidedown said:


> Christ, it tells you something when I think I would rather have an admitedly lively, and no doubt angry, pint with your average EDL sympathiser, than a beer with the knacker who wrote that.


 
that's shit.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

The Black Hand said:


> I do not accept this critique. The aim you are trying to give taffboy is neither the stated aim, or the hidden aim, its one that you wish is true or want to argue for whatever reason. I DO think the article is satire, but whether some people are intelligent enough to get it is an entirely different question. You have to assume its written for a capable audience, and one that is more genorous than your over the top negative critique (same as Butchers ad nauseum), on its own terms and not yours. There are many other and more worthy targets that deserve critique than Taffboys effort. In short, do try to be more selective, and appreciate what is being attempted.


 
I wonder if, in some cases, a critic continues with criticism because they are responded to and engaged with respectfully. 

If they were to blurt "It's shit" with or without reason and get no response they probably would move onto something else, deserving or otherwise. I can't expect people to go to far right places and get constant flaming though. The idea of someone challenging them perhaps gets their backs up even more, or just pours oil on the fire or whatever. 

It is not a professional work, it started as a laugh and I blogged it so it didn't completely go down a cyber black hole. I am interested by the level of some of the indignation, right and left. But the amount of people on the right who seem to think it genuine and like it for that amuses me greatly and counts as a success in it's own terms AFAIAC.

I can take criticism on the chin, perhaps more than my critics can. But any fool can be a critic, and some of mine (not necessarily here could easily be on the exhibit list). Some are happy to dish it out, but far less happy when their own criticism is criticised. This makes them little more than hollow bibblemeisters.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

It is just shit. You can't change that by waffle. It's not my failing. It's yours. It's shit.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

I asked before for some links to your own stuff Butchers, to show me a better way forward. But response came there none.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Odd how stoaty just turns up again today.


 


I could not keep away. Saw the story and thought of you lot. Its a subject that interests me and to be fair I tend to get a different perspective on things from here than I can usually find anywhere else. Take it as a compliment. You might be a smug know it all twonk but you do seem to know your beans and always have an opinion, as do a lot of others on here. Its a quality I admire.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

Yo





butchersapron said:


> It is just shit. You can't change that by waffle. It's not my failing. It's yours. It's shit.


 
Your critique is vapid. That can't be changed by terse repetition.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I do not claim to speak for England, neither do you. It is less beholden on us to be accurate in our English use. That's the whole chuffin' point.


Stop the use bad angloish then. Back bring madrigals.

You twat.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Yo
> 
> Your critique is vapid. That can't be changed by terse repetition.


There is no critique - it's just shit. It's shit.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

Yo





taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Yo
> 
> Your critique is vapid. That can't be changed by terse repetition.


 
..and don't 'yo' me icebaby.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I am not justifying or denying. It is what it is - a pastiche in one sense. If the spelling was correct and erudite it would be less realistic to the target. It is not taking the piss out of illiteracy it is taking the piss out of illiterate bigots who have the raw fucking nerve to preach this and that about English while being utterly shit in their use of English.
> 
> Further, as I have said, the literacy levels of the stuff are probably higher if anything than those of the target. I am flattering them and arguably piss taking less than I could - though that would make it less readable and more over reliant on that aspect.
> 
> ...



Maybe next time you're feeling satirical and feel the need to compose a witty pastiche you instead put down your mug of tea, turn the computer off and take the dog out for a walk?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

This was on "Still Laughing" wall in the last hour:

_your all a bunch of cunt son this page . edl till i die ur never gonna change that . your all probally fat geeks that got bullied bye muslims at school .​ _

Also today I have seen 2 separate claims that it is illegal to say "white" 

How very awful and silly. But woe betide anyone who tries to say it's awful and silly in any other format. Let's hunt down people who take the piss out of hateful fuckwit twats. They are surely the enemy within.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Yo
> 
> ..and don't 'yo' me icebaby.


 
That, ironically, was a typo. Where's the link to your stuff? I want to know how it's done properly.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> This was on "Still Laughing" wall in the last hour:
> 
> 
> _your all a bunch of cunt son this page . edl till i die ur never gonna change that . your all probally fat geeks that got bullied bye muslims at school ._​
> ...


You're quite self-obsessed. I thought everyone thought it was great last week? Why do you think those of us who think this is shit are saying that we think it's shit? No waffle, just tell us.


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## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That, ironically, was a typo. Where's the link to your stuff? I want to know how it's done properly.


My biting Morriseque satire? Or something else?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

sunnysidedown said:


> Maybe next time you're feeling satirical and feel the need to compose a witty pastiche you instead put down you're mug of tea, turn the computer off and take the dog out for a walk?


 
You don't like it? Fine. Some people do.

You think it's shit? Fine. Some people don't.

What interests me more is what else you target. Do you have a link to you slagging off someone elses stuff? 

Perhaps there are a lot. 

Perhaps you are another of natures critics.

Again, perhaps you could show us some of your works in whatever capacity. I guarantee you I will probably me more receptive and respectful. 

I don't have a dog.


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## frogwoman (Jul 10, 2012)

It's really not on to have a go at the illiterate in the name of anti-fascism.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> My biting Morriseque satire? Or something else?


 
Preferably the former, the latter would be fine though.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't have a dog.



Use your imagination.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Preferably the former, the latter would be fine though.


The former? You mean my blog set up to ineptly take the piss out of people? Haven't got one. And if i did it would be - by definition - better than that crap you've come up with.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You don't like it? Fine. Some people do.
> 
> You think it's shit? Fine. Some people don't.
> 
> ...


You're taking criticism of your shit satire blog very personally here taffboy.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

> Again, perhaps you could show us some of your works in whatever capacity. I guarantee you I will probably me more receptive and respectful.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> It's really not on to have a go at the illiterate in the name of anti-fascism.


 
The blog is more literate than most EDL bilge I read in terms of % spelling accuracy, vocab use and overall structure. How do you square that?

I am not having a go at "the illiterate". Without wanking off too much about my own stuff (I can see good and bad points to it) there are certainly many more gags in it beyond the literacy stuff. Many more. I wouldn't be arsed in doing it otherwise. If it were entirely literate in every regard it just wouldn't be realistic or credible as a satire/pastiche.

I am having a go at hypocrisy and stupidity.

I doubt some of you can watch 20 minutes of stand up without having an apoplexy, but those standups don't show up on U75 so I don't suppose you bother writing to them to slag them off, not least because they would ignore you anyway.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

Are you saying that you're a gifted comedian now as well?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

> If it were entirely literate in every regard it just wouldn't be realistic or credible as a satire/pastiche.


 
These require subtlety, understanding of the subject that you're taking the piss out of, native intelligence and wit and some grasp of how people use language. Guess how many you don't got?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Odd how stoaty just turns up again today.


 
Hmm. Right-wing; Catholic; does that middle-class thing of saying "ain't" to try and imply he's "one of us".
Yep. Spook.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

Frogwoman - gtg in a second. 

but to put it another way: 

Is it fair to take the piss out of such warped logic and paranoia as:

1) The "white" race is under threat.

2) There is a muslim plot to take over the world.

3) The various nonsense associated with "I'm not racist but..."

4) The idea that the EDL are bastions and saviours of national heritage and culture.

5) Shallow defence of far right violence while complaining about the "2 tier system"

6) A genuine belief that mainstream politics and media are infected with socialism? 

7) Using distorted facts and outright fiction to promote and propagate hate?

etc.

"yes" or "no" answer will do fine. 

If so, do you think the whole thing should be done with entirely correct syntax, spelling, grammar and punctuation? 

How realistic would that be?

There are other issues I might have with it, but will leave it there for now. 

I might actually give it a whirl though, as an experiment.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Frogwoman - gtg in a second.
> 
> but to put it another way:
> 
> ...


Of course it is. But your attempt attempt it is shit. Utter shit.

And secondarily, yes of course there are also other ways to do than with all spelling mistake rubbish. Or are you saying you were compelled to do this in this shit way?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> These require subtlety, understanding of the subject that you're taking the piss out of, native intelligence and wit and some grasp of how people use language. Guess how many you don't got?


 
Some. Obviously I don't got less than you, as shown by the excellent work of yours that I asked for and you linked to without hesitation. For which many thanks.

Are you now at the point where you spend more time slagging off critics of the far right for doing it wrong than you do in anti far right activities?

Have you been there for some time in fact?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Some. Obviously I don't got less than you, as shown by the excellent work of yours that I asked for and you linked to without hesitation. For which many thanks.
> 
> Are you now at the point where you spend more time slagging off the far right for doing it wrong than you do in anti far right activities?
> 
> Have you been there for some time in fact?


Sorry, i haven't got anything as shit as yours to offer. Get over it. 



> Are you now at the point where you spend more time slagging off the far right for doing it wrong than you do in anti far right activities?


 
In english please.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Some. Obviously I don't got less than you, as shown by the excellent work of yours that I asked for and you linked to without hesitation. For which many thanks.
> 
> Are you now at the point where you spend more time slagging off critics of the far right for doing it wrong than you do in anti far right activities?
> 
> Have you been there for some time in fact?


Some? I like optimists but there are limits.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Of course it is. But your attempt attempt it is shit. Utter shit.
> 
> And secondarily, yes of course there are also other ways to do than with all spelling mistake rubbish. Or are you saying you were compelled to do this in this shit way?


 
I am as compelled to do it in whatever way as you are compelled to like it.

A lot of people like it and I respect their opinion every bit as much as I respect yours.

But you still aint shown me your own efforts to learn from and it maketh me sad, because I think you have a natural wit yourself which might even be turned to greater effect than snarling at other urbanites all day.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I am as compelled to do it in whatever way as you are compelled to like it. pis
> 
> A lot of people like it and I respect their opinion every bit as much as I respect yours.
> 
> But you still aint shown me your own efforts to learn from and it maketh me sad, because I think you have a natural wit yourself which might even be turned to greater effect than snarling at other urbanites all day.


Well, i don't respect their opinion because it's quite clearly shit. They either know that or don't want to upset you.

I have never made a shit blog attempting to do what this thing has. Yes, i agree, i am funnier than you.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

Trevor Phillips on R4 now talking about European far right. Will put up iplayer link later


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Well, i don't respect their opinion because it's quite clearly shit. They either know that or don't want to upset you.



With festival season upon us, Madame Butchers psychic act rolls into town once more.

All those people who thought to themselves "I will go to the effort of telling this bloke I like his stuff and pushing it around a bit without him asking, because I think it is shit"

That must be what they thought right Butchers?

Because you said so.

Humour is personal. I find you quite funny. I didn't say you were funnier than me. It's too subjective and I don't know.

But you didn't get round to linking to any of your stuff. I think it's almost cute that someone so ascorbic could actually be so shy.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

I didn't call them liars, i said that if they think that shit is funny then i don't trust their opinion on what shit is. Once more, i haven't made up a crap blog lacking in insight humour or intelligence, so stop asking me to link you up with one.

I _am_ funnier than you. Let's not fuck about.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

can we get back to the edl now please? as bignose said earlier it is a bit of a coincidence to just be checking insurance and then 'discovering' guns and bombs on the backseat next to the thermos and travel blanket isnt it? hmmm ... cue pink panther music ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I didn't call them liars, i said that if they think that shit is funny then i don't trust their opinion on what shit is. Once more, i haven't made up a crap blog lacking in insight humour or intelligence, so stop asking me to link you up with one.
> 
> I _am_ funnier than you. Let's not fuck about.


strong statement butchers! lets have a best knock knock joke comp!!!


----------



## krink (Jul 10, 2012)

knock kncok
who's there?
taff's shit blog


sorry couldn't resist


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

knock knock! who's there? butchers? butchers who? butchers a tenner he'll think his jokes funnier! (instructions for use: best to employ a bad noddy holder accent like the 1 you would use in the 'i'd love a kipper tie' old one).


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Frogwoman - gtg in a second.
> 
> but to put it another way:
> 
> ...


 
of course it's fair. i take the piss out of the fash all the time. i hate the fash.

however for humour to work it actually has to be funny, and this is not funny. It comes across as taking the piss out of people with literacy issues more than it does the fash, which is not on. of course its amusing to take the piss out of the fash, their sickenly sentimental writing, their pseudo intellectual bombastics, etc. but it has to be funny

Fuck I've got a project that I keep on meaning to start, a blog collating nazis' shit poems called "shitnazipoetry.com", been meaning to for years, so watch this space ...


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 10, 2012)

the pseudo intellectual reasonable fash are far more dangerous than dysfunctional people writing shit on the internet anyway.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

I





butchersapron said:


> I didn't call them liars, i said that if they think that shit is funny then i don't trust their opinion on what shit is. Once more, i haven't made up a crap blog lacking in insight humour or intelligence, so stop asking me to link you up with one.
> 
> I _am_ funnier than you. Let's not fuck about.



" They either know that <it's shit and / or you disagree with them, not clear which> or don't want to upset you. "

That allows for 2 possibilities in the minds of quite a lot of people. But there can only be 2 such possibilities. Butchers said so. You've done your routine of knowing what other people think plenty of times before and if you think I have the time or can be arsed like you to trawl through the archives you are mistaken. 

In any case, some small number have possibly sought to upset me in saying they didn't like it. But it's starting to look as if I can stomach and answer criticism better than you.

So, you disrespect the opinion of anyone who likes it. Yet I, who on balance, quite like it, respect your opinion. Maybe one of us is more capable of general respect - something borne out by your constant and under-useful negativity to posters far beyond me.

And did you get round to saying what blogs or other materiel you have done, with links? 
PM me if you don't want others to see it for whatever reasons, like anonymity.

I guarantee that if you have or were to, and lots of people saw it, quite a few would think it was shit (that's an averages thing, not me doing the Butchers Yuri Geller special). Especially the case if it was under a supposed "humour" genre.

But you never did get round to linking to any. I'm even starting to think there might not be any.
Added to the fact that you have been speaking to selected responses of mine that suit you, but less to the ones challenging you, one could start to form a picture of someone who, for all the brains, bombast and mind reading, of someone who is far better at dishing out the slaggings than at dealing with them. 

That makes you a paper tiger and a bit of a bully to be honest, certainly more consistently bullisome than a blog with more accurate spelling than those vile bullies it targets, which then becomes an alleged attack on the under literate in general.

I know I asked something similar before, though you didn't try to answer: Do you think you spend more time criticising far right lunatic haters or critics of the far right for not doing it the Butcher's Approved way? 

I bet if you blogged your constant put downs of people it would be gripping stuff. But as I suggested, perhaps poor growling Butch is a teensy bit shy on the inside, a co-function of the negativity.

You never issued those guidelines I ask for either btw. No wonder I upset you so much when you don't even tell me what to do properly.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 10, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> the pseudo intellectual reasonable fash are far more dangerous than dysfunctional people writing shit on the internet anyway.



That is certainly true. There are attempts at attacking faux intellectualism as it happens, but it is a harder target for sure.

Paul Weston did a ridiculous piece about "clash of civilisations" in which he revelled in his use of the word "civilisational" quite a bit and totally got the wrong end of the stick about Fukuyama's "End of History" (which was bilge in the first place).

I don't think that has been covered yet but it will be, and lots of people won't notice because they still think it's all about shit spelling when most of the spelling isn't actually shit anyway. Ho hum.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I
> 
> " They either know that <it's shit and / or you disagree with them, not clear which> or don't want to upset you. "
> 
> ...


is this some sort of joke? 

Look, your thing is shit. You are offended. So what?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 10, 2012)

On a slightly different note...Looks like the 3 from Brum might have been on their way to 'ave a pop at the EEjits! Bad un :-(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18777992


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> can we get back to the edl now please? as bignose said earlier it is a bit of a coincidence to just be checking insurance and then 'discovering' guns and bombs on the backseat next to the thermos and travel blanket isnt it? hmmm ... cue pink panther music ...


 
Would the cops even have information on who has insurance or not? Tax, yeah. But a list of who has or hasn't a direct debit set up with direct line?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 10, 2012)

The only thing that surprises me about this terrorist attack on the EDL is that someone hasn't tried it sooner. It was the first thing that came into my head when I saw the EDL in manchester back in the day, I just thought "someone's gonna chuck a grenade into this crowd of dickheads sooner or later" and tbh I'm only surprised it's taken this long for something like this to happen,.

I've often thought since then that the most direct way to get an EDL march called off would be just call in a bomb threat to the police. After this arrest even more so.

Probably not a very good idea strategically, it would almost certainly lead to increase in sympathy for the EDL and so on, and not to mention the morality of doing it, but it would work. I can't see the police allowing a march to take place if they thought there were bombs on the route.

If I've thought that, then you can bet some genuine nutcase fundamentalist has thought of it too.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

You wouldn't find Chris Morris writing an indignant essay in the Guardian if someone called Brass Eye shit.


----------



## co-op (Jul 10, 2012)

It's obvious bullshit (the "checking insurance" story).


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

So, this knobs - wear they come from - who the tout? Are they independence?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

You've probably got fundie groups with spooks organising the cells, giving out instructions and then pulling the plug once they're in the car and on their way to the gig. Perhaps. Don't a lot of fringe groups run the risk of spooks infiltrating and getting themselves into positions of command or setting up the groups themselves?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> can we get back to the edl now please?


 
Indeed. Enough in house squabbling. Leave that to the bone heads.


----------



## josef1878 (Jul 10, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Would the cops even have information on who has insurance or not? Tax, yeah. But a list of who has or hasn't a direct debit set up with direct line?



Yes they have. Anybody can check if any car is insured at askMID


----------



## renegadechicken (Jul 10, 2012)

The number plate recognition system that the OB use flashes up whether you have mot/tax/insurance using the dvla database. Got pulled with no insurance once due to the number plate thingy as i didn't check my insurance fully enough and the insurance company had got my reg wrong by one letter.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

josef1878 said:


> Yes they have. Anybody can check if any car is insured at askMID





renegadechicken said:


> The number plate recognition system that the OB use flashes up whether you have mot/tax/insurance using the dvla database. Got pulled with no insurance once due to the number plate thingy as i didn't check my insurance fully enough and the insurance company had got my reg wrong by one letter.


 
Fair dos, didn't know that. And I suppose it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that they may check your boot etc because they might think no insurance = connected with other possible crimes..?


----------



## renegadechicken (Jul 10, 2012)

Well yep they did ask to look in my boot too...although they didn't when they caught me with no MOT the same way(mot expired two days before they stopped me). But they do treat no insurance a bit more harshly than no MOT/Tax. I know they assume no insurance therefore no mot/tax, which is usually the case.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 10, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/e/1fmj


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 10, 2012)

krink said:


> The alleged target was already mentioned speculatively in the press at the weekend so maybe it's just the bbc following the previous reports.
> 
> As far as I know, conspiracy charges don't have to name the people you conspired with but they will have to say what you were going to do(or did)/law you were conspiring to break (source: bitter experience)


From what I can gather they searched the car let them go and made some daft excuse that they later found the stuff. Typical ops bust m.o. as per 6 counties. ( when they wanted to) And what shooters they had I dont know but an ied can be made from fireworks ffs..ask Copeland. Their target had already probably been identified the plod just wanted to let it run so they could obtain more intelligence, car bugged, mob phones as the level of evidence they need to secure convictions on this sort of stuff is more stringent etc And also make make it easier for source protection by coming the routine stop bollox....as mentioned above.....but all in all probably a propaganda win for Mr Tommy but when the worst that has happened to them is yer proverbial yah booh shit placard waving no wonder those on the receiving end went native. Punch ups on the streets get you serious time nowadays but if you start going down the armed road youll get fucked over too.If you want to get into that sort of caper then you keep schtum. But you will probably get caught. To me its fucked all round. Too many gadgets....


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 10, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I
> 
> " They either know that <it's shit and / or you disagree with them, not clear which> or don't want to upset you. "
> 
> ...


 
You're  a fucking idiot chief - so to take the piss of sad and unfunny spoof blogs you have to write your own blogs? Or are you saying that spoof blogs are important political activity?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> The only thing that surprises me about this terrorist attack on the EDL is that someone hasn't tried it sooner. It was the first thing that came into my head when I saw the EDL in manchester back in the day, I just thought "someone's gonna chuck a grenade into this crowd of dickheads sooner or later" and tbh I'm only surprised it's taken this long for something like this to happen,.
> 
> I've often thought since then that the most direct way to get an EDL march called off would be just call in a bomb threat to the police. After this arrest even more so.
> 
> ...


the thing with uk antifascism no matter how militant it has been is that very few people have actually died - unlike in russia over the last few years or germany up to 1933. its just not cricket is it? researching the various countries since 1900s makes us look a right bunch of puffs! also antifascists arent ones to go round dishing out death threats and that. unlike the opposition. also bomb threats only work if youre indoors. it wd be pretty hard to pretend to blow up an empty carpark!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> You've probably got fundie groups with spooks organising the cells, giving out instructions and then pulling the plug once they're in the car and on their way to the gig. Perhaps. Don't a lot of fringe groups run the risk of spooks infiltrating and getting themselves into positions of command or setting up the groups themselves?


i hate conspiracy theory but it is not a stretch to get a stoolie to set up a plot and then foil it before it goes too far in order to up the arrest count of 'terrierists' and help job preservation etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://twitpic.com/e/1fmj


 i believ these are referred to as 'walts.'


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i hate conspiracy theory but it is not a stretch to get a stoolie to set up a plot and then foil it before it goes too far in order to up the arrest count of 'terrierists' and help job preservation etc.


 
Well quite, like all that shit with Kennedy/Stone.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

Or maybe there are nutters out there? Maybe that's a more harder thing to think about?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Or maybe there are nutters out there? Maybe that's a more harder thing to think about?


 
Has anyone argued that it is _definitely _the work of spooks? Other people started entertaining the idea so I ran with it a bit. I don't care either way tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if Islamists see the EDL as a target at all though. Foiled by their own incompetency on this occasion.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> From what I can gather they searched the car let them go and made some daft excuse that they later found the stuff. Typical ops bust m.o. as per 6 counties. ( when they wanted to) And what shooters they had I dont know but an ied can be made from fireworks ffs..ask Copeland. Their target had already probably been identified the plod just wanted to let it run so they could obtain more intelligence, car bugged, mob phones as the level of evidence they need to secure convictions on this sort of stuff is more stringent etc And also make make it easier for source protection by coming the routine stop bollox....as mentioned above.....but all in all probably a propaganda win for Mr Tommy but when the worst that has happened to them is yer proverbial yah booh shit placard waving no wonder those on the receiving end went native. Punch ups on the streets get you serious time nowadays but if you start going down the armed road youll get fucked over too.If you want to get into that sort of caper then you keep schtum. But you will probably get caught. To me its fucked all round. Too many gadgets....


 
Where did you gather all this from?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Has anyone argued that it is _definitely _the work of spooks? Other people started entertaining the idea so I ran with it a bit. I don't care either way tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if Islamists see the EDL as a target at all though. Foiled by their own incompetency on this occasion.


Some people are pretty close.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Some people are pretty close.


 
Well they are being ridiculous then. For me it rang the 'coincidence' bell. Then we established that the police can check whether someone is insured or not whilst on patrol (I didn't know this) so I changed position that it was more probable to be incompetence than black helicopters. Then Malatesta said 'but it does happen' and I agreed stating when it had.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Well they are being ridiculous then. For me it rang the 'coincidence' bell. Then we established that the police can check whether someone is insured or not whilst on patrol (I didn't know this) so I changed position that it was more probable to be incompetence than black helicopters. Then Malatesta said 'but it does happen' and I agreed stating when it had.


Let's see what follows. See if bignose gives us more of his _gathered_ info.


----------



## treelover (Jul 10, 2012)

Can't believe the focus of this thread isn't fully on the putative attack on the EDL by these radicals, it would have created some awful retaliation, never mind the carnage they would have caused with bombs, guns, machetes, this is just what some on the far right want, they would have got a possible 'race war'

ah, back on issue...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 10, 2012)

treelover said:


> Can't believe the focus of this thread isn't fully on the putative attack on the EDL by these radicals, it would have created some awful retaliation, never mind the carnage they would have caused with bombs, guns, machetes, this is just what some on the far right want, they would have got a possible 'race war'
> 
> ah, back on issue...


Well it was always 'on issue'. Pretty clear why too.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 10, 2012)

So they got the car impounded knowing there was bombs and guns in it and hung about waiting to get nicked? talk about fucking idiots.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Let's see what follows. See if bignose gives us more of his _gathered_ info.


 
Hadn't even read that!  Fair dos.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Or maybe there are nutters out there? Maybe that's a more harder thing to think about?


 
You have a point there. I noticed in the thread (between the handbags at dawn posts on some blog or other) that the idea that the alleged plotters were something other than straightforward fundamental nutters was something to be avoided. Looks like a case of knee jerk negation. That idea doesn't suit my political outlook therefore it must be false. the EDL are thick but they do pick up on this fault that sometimes leads otherwise progressive thinkers to stear and vere from the point.

If this plot is real and not another made up story (and there have been several) then it plays right into the hands of the extreme right. There you have it, fundamentalist terrorists living amongst us.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 10, 2012)

treelover said:


> Can't believe the focus of this thread isn't fully on the putative attack on the EDL by these radicals, it would have created some awful retaliation, never mind the carnage they would have caused with bombs, guns, machetes, this is just what some on the far right want, they would have got a possible 'race war'
> 
> ah, back on issue...


 
I assume the police also found a map in the car with a big red X on Dewsbury with 'booty' written underneath and the X is made from a flag of St George.

Or perhaps we reserve judgement until more facts are known?

You're already altering the terminology to 'bombs' from 'homemade explosives', btw.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 10, 2012)

According to the telegraph, the car was impounded first and wasn't inspected until two days later during a routine search. Then the police _"allegedly unearthed sawn off shotguns, the makings of a pipebomb containing ball bearings and nails and a cache of swords, knives and machetes". _

There's a courtroom drawing of the arrested men all sporting beards






woops, I posted it.

Anyone know if the telegraph usually uses the word _allegedly. _Either they found stuff or they didn't_,_ right?


----------



## josef1878 (Jul 11, 2012)

Is that Peter Sutcliffe on the far right?..........newly converted and let out to cleanse the streets again.....


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> From what I can gather they searched the car let them go and made some daft excuse that they later found the stuff. Typical ops bust m.o. as per 6 counties. ( when they wanted to) And what shooters they had I dont know but an ied can be made from fireworks ffs..ask Copeland. Their target had already probably been identified the plod just wanted to let it run so they could obtain more intelligence, car bugged, mob phones as the level of evidence they need to secure convictions on this sort of stuff is more stringent etc And also make make it easier for source protection by coming the routine stop bollox....as mentioned above.....but all in all probably a propaganda win for Mr Tommy but when the worst that has happened to them is yer proverbial yah booh shit placard waving no wonder those on the receiving end went native. Punch ups on the streets get you serious time nowadays but if you start going down the armed road youll get fucked over too.If you want to get into that sort of caper then you keep schtum. But you will probably get caught. To me its fucked all round. Too many gadgets....





> From what I can gather they searched the car let them go and made some daft excuse that they later found the stuff.


 
is what you're saying?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 11, 2012)

You've gotta wonder what the police officer was thinking when he pulled these three up. "That's 5 quid you owe me sarge, it's definitely not the fuckin BeeGees after all."


----------



## treelover (Jul 11, 2012)

If they are found guilty and they haven't yet, then this is a very disturbing turn of events, what will it mean for the UK?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 11, 2012)

treelover said:


> If they are found guilty and they haven't yet, then this is a very disturbing turn of events, what will it mean for the UK?


 
For a start I predict that shares in shaving foam companies are going to rally on the stock market as sales soar. Sorry to say that BeeGees album sales are inevitably set to stagnate and decline. So definitely sell there if you have shares in them.


----------



## josef1878 (Jul 11, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> You've gotta wonder what the police officer was thinking when he pulled these three up. "That's 5 quid you owe me sarge, it's definitely not the fuckin BeeGees after all."



Perhaps they were thinking of..."ah ah ah ah staying alive, staying alive"


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

treelover said:


> If they are found guilty and they haven't yet, then this is a very disturbing turn of events, what will it mean for the UK?


 
I am certainly disturbed at the thought of what such a tale will do to your already over-sensitive beard radar.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 11, 2012)

josef1878 said:


> Perhaps they were thinking of..."ah ah ah ah staying alive, staying alive"


 
I think you may be onto something there:

_"Whether you're a brother or whether you're a mother, _
_You're stayin alive, stayin alive. _
_Feel the city breakin (Dewsbury?) and everybody shakin, _
_And were stayin alive, stayin alive". _

But on a more serious note, they're cunts and those "alleged" suspect terrorists are also cunts.

PS, gotta show my rejection for the idea that the EDl somehow deserved something like this. They deserve a lot of things like Lucozade and shooing but not this shit. In the event of it being real then the perception of victims would have gone way beyond those immediately effected, ie Edl, and would have been perceived as an attack on the whole of society, thus handing the right a martyrdom that they could milk for years.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> I am certainly disturbed at the thought of what such a tale will do to your already over-sensitive beard radar.


 
Sorry, that was probably excessive.

At the end of the day our best defence is that the majority of people prepared to indulge in such acts at this time are too stupid.

If I take this stuff at face value then I may file it in the vehicular idiocy folder, joining the fools who got their bombs towed away for parking violations.


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 11, 2012)

josef1878 said:


> Perhaps they were thinking of..."ah ah ah ah staying alive, staying alive"


Jihad talking......


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> is what you're saying?


Whoah dont look for trouble........Thats my take on it...Ive not spoken to anyone who might be any the wiser certainly none of the usual suspects Im often erroneously associated with.... if as I think its what your implying!!
Been around mate...read plenty of the manuals.....talked to people who have been been on the recieving end....have outed informers...interrorgated a few...and had the experience myself!!. And for what its worth...intuition.....think like or as they might do. Now a routine stop might be an obvious disruption tactic but it can be engineered so well that it can almost be undetectable...but what it does do is apply an extra layer of surveillance. How would you protect yourself from being infiltrated what would you look for. Actions not body language...I know it can descend into a counter counter game but when I see/hear of people nowadays getting rounded up and ts not down to CCTV or some other gadgetry its invariably a two legged source....which beats hands down any other covert shit when it comes to credible evidence in court and getting convictions. The quality of the source is important but so is the target of the operation which could bring me to the Mark Kennedy affair but its not the place here. Suffice to say it was doomed from day one. As Ive said before I trained up quite a few people in these areas...surveillance...counter surveillance...and associated stuff. I only really touched on this in NR. But I can tell you my motivation to get a grip of all this came from the fact that I got jailed because of a mole.


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 11, 2012)

......jihadgidy


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 11, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> You have a point there. I noticed in the thread (between the handbags at dawn posts on some blog or other) that the idea that the alleged plotters were something other than straightforward fundamental nutters was something to be avoided. Looks like a case of knee jerk negation. That idea doesn't suit my political outlook therefore it must be false. the EDL are thick but they do pick up on this fault that sometimes leads otherwise progressive thinkers to stear and vere from the point.
> 
> If this plot is real and not another made up story (and there have been several) then it plays right into the hands of the extreme right. There you have it, fundamentalist terrorists living amongst us.


 
it was the coincidence of stopping a car and finding a bunch of stuff in there that was the point. what are the chances of that happening percentage wise? then again, it cd be a bunch of eejits caught purely by chance. there is no 'kneejerk negation' here but all possibilities should be entertained surely? and as someone mentioned before - kennedy/stone etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 11, 2012)

as i said i hate conspiracy theory but given the amount of job creation and money being made post-9/11 its not a stretch to imagine these kind of set-ups.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> it was the coincidence of stopping a car and finding a bunch of stuff in there that was the point. what are the chances of that happening percentage wise?



Higher if you're stupid enough to be caught for a minor traffic violation than if you take all precautions not to stick out whilst on your way to commit a crime.


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Higher if you're stupid enough to be caught for a minor traffic violation than if you take all precautions not to stick out whilst on your way to commit a crime.


The first thing when it comes to surveillance by the likes of MI5 or SB is forget about spotting them...you wont. Not til you get pulled over when they approve a disruption for operational reasons. Your car could be briefed up to fuck and you could all be sitting pretty playing I-spy. They must have known the ied wasnt ready and guns to hand. The question which people will want to know the answer to is why let them go which I think Ive had a go at earlier.The fact that 3 or 4 beardies in traditional clobber got stopped could be a throwback to the 7/7 stuff...anyone brown with lots of facial hair with a rucksack etc but this was so obviously another compromised homemade plan it wouldnt have mattered if you'd had Binny himself driving open top in a suicide vest making a jihad video.[/quote]


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> The first thing when it comes to surveillance by the likes of MI5 or SB is forget about spotting them...you wont. Not til you get pulled over when they approve a disruption for operational reasons. Your car could be briefed up to fuck and you could all be sitting pretty playing I-spy. They must have known the ied wasnt ready and guns to hand. The question which people will want to know the answer to is why let them go which I think Ive had a go at earlier.The fact that 3 or 4 beardies in traditional clobber got stopped could be a throwback to the 7/7 stuff...anyone brown with lots of facial hair with a rucksack etc but this was so obviously another compromised homemade plan it wouldnt have mattered if you'd had Binny himself driving open top.



It _could_ be all those things. But it could also be a routine stop (they do happen on a daily basis). Why you so sure it's the former?


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> It _could_ be all those things. But it could also be a routine stop (they do happen on a daily basis). Why you so sure it's the former?


Of course...its just my take...putting together some personal experience some of what Ive read and seen but also because I'm sceptical of the random stop excuse...when was the last time you got pulled over or any one else you know when your fully briefed up or not driving out of a pub car park at 11-30pm. Its very rare... as theres fewer cops about on the road except maybe at Crimbo.This has all the hall marks of a a homemade attempt by previously targetted or on radar individuals whove probably been bugged to fuck. The EDL have become a legit target....fuck me theyve tore into Islam harder than Rushdie, Gert et al...Im suprised that this caper hadnt happened sooner....


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 11, 2012)

I never get pulled up, but I also don't drive without insurance; which i'm sure increases the likelihood a thousand-fold if the busies are running checks on every reg plate they cast a glance over.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 11, 2012)

The police cars have a camera which will auto read and flag cars that have no insurance/MOT etc... they dont even need to radio them in like what they do in the movies and such


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 11, 2012)

*Nationalism*
*Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights*
*Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause*
*Supremacy of the Military*
*Rampant Sexism*
*Controlled Mass Media*
*Obsession with National Security*
*Religion and Government are Intertwined*
*Corporate Power is Protected*
*Labor Power is Suppressed*
*Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts*
*Obsession with Crime and Punishment*
*Rampant Cronyism and Corruption*
*Fraudulent Elections*

geting back on track how many of these are right?
*Nationalism, Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause, Supremacy of the Military, Rampant Sexism*
- but also homphobia/against any 'deviance'
*Controlled Mass Media, National Security, Religion and Government are Intertwined, Corporate Power is Protected, Labor Power is Suppressed, Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts*
- cultural work is state sanctioned (ie, anti-modernism under nazis)
*Obsession with Crime and Punishment, Rampant Cronyism and Corruption, Fraudulent Elections*
- or no elections at all.
any ideas? i need a brief list for the antifascist book and dont wanto to end up writing tons about what fascism is, as opposed to writing about antifascist activities.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> *Nationalism*
> *Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights*
> *Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause*
> *Supremacy of the Military*
> ...


 
thing is those things happen in _all_ states, not just fascist states to varying degrees. "Corporate Power is Protected?" "Fraudulent elections?" Come the fuck on.

I don't like that list particularly because it seems to have been written to identify the US with fascism. I'm meant to be working  but I'll try and write you something a bit more detailed abouthe defining features of fascism and send it to you - probably won't be today though.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 11, 2012)

not only that but that list actually misses out one of the most important features of fascism.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 11, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> not only that but that list actually misses out one of the most important features of fascism.


is it funny hats?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> is it funny hats?


 
nah. it's the whole idea of the palingenetic rebirth, the idea of crerating the new society (and destruction of the old) which distinguishes a fash movement from a simple nationalist/popularist one. There's other stuff too. But that list isn't reliable when it comes to discussing fascism. At all.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 11, 2012)

brilliant, cheers frogs! hopefully folk can help finetune it and get it right. yr right about the original as well -it cd be used for USA


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 11, 2012)

this could also correct people when referring to islam as fascist.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 11, 2012)

no worries, i'll try and remember to send you something next week.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> this could also correct people when referring to islam as fascist.


 
Some of the islamist/nationalist movements in the middle east do imo contain elements of fascism. But "islam" ain't fascist. Fuck's sake.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2012)

Not being funny mal, but why don't you read some books on fascism? There's a long running well informed debate about what constitutes fascism.  google the fascist minimum or something.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 11, 2012)

http://ah.brookes.ac.uk/resources/griffin/coreoffascism.pdf


----------



## krink (Jul 11, 2012)

quick scan of the local edl pages and so far it seems most are saying they believe the idea that the dudes in the car were going to attack edl is really just a government plot to discourage people from attending edl demos. They are saying this because the car was already further south than the demo and was still going south when stopped.

On a side note, one of them has posted up a poster of david cameron which is attracting 'likes' - only thing is it's one of those class war 'wanker' posters .


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I never get pulled up, but I also don't drive without insurance; which i'm sure increases the likelihood a thousand-fold if the busies are running checks on every reg plate they cast a glance over.


 I was generalising...yes your right in this instance. ANPR means you can get a ticket through the post even though youve not been pulled as a workmate found out when he got his renewal dates mixed up.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not being funny mal, but why don't you read some books on fascism? There's a long running well informed debate about what constitutes fascism. google the fascist minimum or something.


you damned straight you aint being funny! its all im doing at the moment. seriously, i saw the list, then the eco thing and thought that it is a more succinct way of explaining to the reader what fascism is so we can get on with antifascism. hence the post.
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/militant-anti-fascism-book/


----------



## LiverAF (Jul 11, 2012)

Can anyone shed any light on whether this is true or not (bristol demo cancelled) - http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/710097


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> is this some sort of joke?
> 
> Look, your thing is shit. You are offended. So what?



Butchers - Ironically the one thing you have said to offend me is that I was offended.

People raise points and criticisms. If I don't answer them they obviously stand. If I do you accuse me of being self obsessed or offended.

That is manipulative.

You frequently make assumptions about what I and other people think.

That is deluded and arrogant.

You can dish out the slaggings but very often avoid questions and challenges to yourself. 
That is cowardly.

You are constantly negative. That is bitter.

Despite mild requests for you to show the opposite you cant demonstrate that you spend more time slagging off the far right (especially to them directly) than their opponents. That is ultimately counter productive.

Bitter, manipulative, counter productive, deluded, arrogant, coward.

That's you Butchers. And if you respond we'll know by your own standards that you are also self obsessed and offended.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 11, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/a6gw0o/full


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 11, 2012)

LiverAF said:


> Can anyone shed any light on whether this is true or not (bristol demo cancelled) - http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/710097


 
post was from hack/fake EDL page.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That's you Butchers.



You see people with shit blogs, thats you that is.


----------



## Kingsway91 (Jul 12, 2012)

*Death threats sent to two EDL members*


http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Deat...head-Bristol/story-16520153-detail/story.html


----------



## krink (Jul 12, 2012)

jesus, that report...don't know where to begin.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 12, 2012)

krink said:


> jesus, that report...don't know where to begin.


 
It's a pretty sloppy report and implies that the 3 arrests this week are somehow linked to the death threats to 2 EDl members. Funny how EDl organizers always get chased or threatened or beaten up shortly before their demos.
Anyway, the EDl will coincide with a pride festival in town on the same day. Should be agood day out for their gay division, not.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 13, 2012)

Two quick things I aint seen here in a quick scan. Could be wrong, apols if so.

Owen Jones has laid into general bigotry, which is pleasing.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...muslims-read-jews-and-be-shocked-7939392.html

I expect he'll be in for a load of foul abuse now as well.

Also, yesterdays statement from Lennon:

For a while it has been a concern that the EDL structure was in danger of failing because of disloyalty, lack of accountability & rumour mongers.
In the past few months trusted patriots have been working hard to rebuild the merchandising that is the main part of our continued support system and future growth. This has now been achieved.
To take this a step further a plan has been put into place that will rebuild the organizing structure. The first step was to approach and appoint a steering interim executive, who all have the necessary skills needed to reform the EDL to become more efficient, become more professional in our day to day working and prepare the EDL to go to the next level in fighting Extreme Islam. The necessary changes will ensure our continued growth and stability in the future.
There is no take over of the EDL by others! Please stop spreading any rumours.
Kevin and I will sit on the executive as permanent members alongside others to look at ways to improve the EDL. What is planned is that once the preparation work is finally achieved, an elected executive will come into existence following nominations and voting. Therefore alongside the responsibility, will come accountability for those in position.
Finally to those who spread rumour that I and Kevin are leaving the EDL, I say we will not and cannot leave the EDL.
---------------------

Translation: People say we are shit. We talked about it and will try to not be shit. We asked someone brainy to say this in an intelligent way. (ETA: Just been told it's Hel Gower). Also, we hope you buy some more of our stuff.


----------



## phildwyer (Jul 13, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Two quick things I aint seen here in a quick scan. Could be wrong, apols if so.
> 
> Owen Jones has laid into general bigotry, which is pleasing.
> 
> ...


 
That's a great article.  Good for him.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 13, 2012)

I cant make it tomorrow as finishing my new kitchen is more imortant than laughing at these dumb fucks..

Anyway it's going to be an intresting day for the all concerned, i will be amazed if it don't go tits up at some point.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 13, 2012)

The handful who turn up are being made to walk about 500 metres to this lovely square






then turned around and marched back to the station. Appropriately it's a square both dedicated to monarchy and also the kick off point for the 1831 riots, the biggest instance of civil disorder in GB in the 19th century.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 13, 2012)

'In the past few months trusted patriots have been working hard to rebuild the merchandising that is the main part of our continued support system and future growth. This has now been achieved.'
ie, we have started milking the members again!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 13, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I cant make it tomorrow as finishing my new kitchen is more imortant than laughing at these dumb fucks..
> 
> Anyway it's going to be an intresting day for the all concerned, i will be amazed if it don't go tits up at some point.


the edl will get about 500 as is the usual number now and we hope that bristol will mobilise a good counter-demo (seems they're doing the street thing they did in brighton). the pride thing will add to the confusion. plod will be hot and bothered. it will rain and bob's kitchen will be lovely!


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## Ranbay (Jul 13, 2012)

Many of them seem "up for it"

http://twitpic.com/a71d3w


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## malatesta32 (Jul 13, 2012)

EDL CLICHES #1: theres loads of people who support us but theyre just scared to show it!
OR: there isnt.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 13, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL CLICHES #1: theres loads of people who support us but theyre just scared to show it!
> OR: there isnt.



Actually, if you watch the demos online you only have to shake the screen up and down to see the local onlookers are nodding in agreement.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 13, 2012)

EDL CLICHES #2: we go where we want, when we want!
OR: we go exactly where the police tell us to go when they want us to go there.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 13, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Many of them seem "up for it"
> 
> http://twitpic.com/a71d3w


 
Mickey Bayliss is a fucking div, even by their standards : 

http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/edl-march-organiser-defends-protest-edl/

"Mickey Bayliss said the group was committed to a peaceful demonstration against what he claimed was the “Islamification of Bristol”.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 13, 2012)

http://www.theantifaschista.blogspot.co.uk/

^ anyone seen this before?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 13, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> http://www.theantifaschista.blogspot.co.uk/
> 
> ^ anyone seen this before?


 
redwatch discover wordpress?


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## cantsin (Jul 13, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> http://www.theantifaschista.blogspot.co.uk/
> 
> ^ anyone seen this before?


up their with Taffyd's finest work that


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 13, 2012)

cantsin said:


> Mickey Bayliss is a fucking div, even by their standards :
> 
> http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/edl-march-organiser-defends-protest-edl/
> 
> "Mickey Bayliss said the group was committed to a peaceful demonstration against what he claimed was the “Islamification of Bristol”.


LOL he just offered me out for a fight on Saturday the stupid fucker.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 13, 2012)

Serotonin said:


> LOL he just offered me out for a fight on Saturday the stupid fucker.


 
you cant tell how big he is from that photo, but as a rule, I'd definitely have to have a old good think about accepting a straightener with a gnarly looking farmer-hooly like that  - bet he'll be all over the shop after the usual 10 hrs on the stella/sniff with those muppetts mind you.


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 13, 2012)

cantsin said:


> you cant tell how big he is from that photo, but as a rule, I'd definitely have a good think about accepting a straightener with a gnarly looking farmer-hooly like that - bet he'll be all over the shop after the usual 10 hrs on the stella/sniff with those muppetts mind you.


 
LOL Ive got no intention of having a fight with him. Im not 12.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 13, 2012)

Serotonin said:


> LOL Ive got no intention of having a fight with him. Im not 12.


 
(dont use them normally, but had  spent some time looking for the right smilie to put after that, but failed : a cross between   would have done it)


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 14, 2012)

Is this a really badly done photoshop?
http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/edl-march-organiser-defends-protest-edl/

Presumably there were no photos of him '_out in the countryside_' only one of him propping up his local bar.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 14, 2012)

Good luck and solidarity to all the Bristol crew going to the demo today. Wish I could have been there.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 14, 2012)

Fucking hell, are the Bristol Labour Party really trying to persude people to stay away from the UAF counter-demo?!!


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## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2012)

Bayliss - well known Gashead, has arranged for the handful of bristol edl to meet _in a city pub_ (that is bristol city, not the city).


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 14, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> http://www.theantifaschista.blogspot.co.uk/
> 
> ^ anyone seen this before?


that is extremely week. 'commies'? almost as bad as 'camerons marxist police force.' and no im not joking!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 14, 2012)

Serotonin said:


> LOL Ive got no intention of having a fight with him. Im not 12.


this is their schoolyard mentality. when they were at school they were 'hard' and this had social cache but out in the real world, especially one that now eschews physicality in favour of technical and intellectual skills, they are out of place. this behaviour reasserts their teenage sense of self and they become the 'tough kids' again. people who boast of being 'hard' confuse respect with fear and loathing.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 14, 2012)

ENGLISH TO EDL-SPEAK TRANSLATOR


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 14, 2012)

That's shit as well.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 14, 2012)

oh well  I suppose I'm easily entertained this morning probably due to being away with work for five days and now having two days off.


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2012)

It sounds like it's all going a bit mental down in Bristol. I'm off there now.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 14, 2012)

Good luck. Bring back action reports.


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## teqniq (Jul 14, 2012)

Yup take care innit.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 14, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Bayliss - well known Gashead, has arranged for the handful of bristol edl to meet _in a city pub_ (that is bristol city, not the city).


hopefully they'll be scrapping amongst themselves then. As usual.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 14, 2012)

70 EDL reported on the march. Apparently around 450 on counter demo. One arrest so far for a racially aggrevated public order offence.

http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/LocalPages/NewsDetails.aspx?nsid=25850&t=1&lid=1

EDL now kettled....in a pub!








live stream/video of the counter demo here: http://t.co/sCbqwJTW but it keeps being interrupted by adverts!


----------



## renegadechicken (Jul 14, 2012)

live stream here
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/multiculturalkat


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2012)

Fucking heddlu everywhere, more bothered about them right now, provocative fuckers.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 14, 2012)

this is a good one!
http://twitpic.com/photos/EDLNewsXtra


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 14, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Fucking heddlu everywhere, more bothered about them right now, provocative fuckers.


now you stay out of trouble mr apron!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 14, 2012)

piss poor
http://twitpic.com/a7gy8u


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 14, 2012)

300 tops. piss poor.
http://twitpic.com/a7hn54


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 14, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> 300 tops. piss poor.
> http://twitpic.com/a7hn54


 
I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same 150 dickheads who got bussed into Dewsbury, plus about 50 or so locals.


----------



## Combat 18 (Jul 14, 2012)

I was searching for EDL marches and came across this shit... What have you people got against the EDL??? Do you want Muslim rape gangs all over the place?

Stupid fucking reds


----------



## peterkro (Jul 14, 2012)

Sorry we're tied up with another nutter at the moment,we'll get back to you.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 14, 2012)

Combat 18 said:


> I was searching for EDL marches and came across this shit... What have you people got against the EDL??? Do you want Muslim rape gangs all over the place?
> 
> Stupid fucking reds


 
shldnt you be in Bristol sunshine ? need all the help they can get, seems they're a bit short on numbers

As for C18 terror machine ...that could be tricky with the EDLs pro Zionist stance ?
( ask your politics teacher to explain on monday )


----------



## ddraig (Jul 14, 2012)

Combat 18 said:


> I was searching for EDL marches and came across this shit... What have you people got against the EDL??? Do you want Muslim rape gangs all over the place?
> 
> Stupid fucking reds


cos no one in the edl is a paedo are they?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 14, 2012)

Is it Self-Declared Racist Day or something?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 14, 2012)

Combat 18 said:


> I was searching for EDL marches and came across this shit... What have you people got against the EDL??? Do you want Muslim rape gangs all over the place?
> 
> Stupid fucking reds



It's Muslamic Ray guns, hactually.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 14, 2012)

I banned him by the way.


----------



## Fedayn (Jul 14, 2012)

SDL on Buchanan Street in Glasgow again it seems. Certainly upping the ante up here.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 14, 2012)

I tell you what's really odd - apparently in the history of the site, nobody has registered as "Combat 18" before.


----------



## Termite Man (Jul 14, 2012)

I was wondering into town down east street in bedminster and the edl were down there as well. Got called a commie (i have communist badges on my jacket)  so I told them to fuck off. I would say about 200 edl.


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2012)

Is that a lot for a small town?


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2012)

Just got back. Didn't see any EDL. Welsh pig tried to kettle me. Bristolian pig let me out.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I am not justifying or denying. It is what it is - a pastiche in one sense. If the spelling was correct and erudite it would be less realistic to the target. It is not taking the piss out of illiteracy it is taking the piss out of illiterate bigots who have the raw fucking nerve to preach this and that about English while being utterly shit in their use of English.
> 
> Further, as I have said, the literacy levels of the stuff are probably higher if anything than those of the target. I am flattering them and arguably piss taking less than I could - though that would make it less readable and more over reliant on that aspect.
> 
> ...



Call me a liberal again and I'll hunt you down and chew out your eyeballs.


----------



## john x (Jul 14, 2012)

I'm hearing that the plod in Bristol are paying more attention to the locals than the EDL. 

john x


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 14, 2012)

was always going to be the case... riots later yeah?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> was always going to be the case... riots later yeah?


 
how's the kitchen going Bob?


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 14, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Sorry we're tied up with another nutter at the moment,we'll get back to you.


 
You bastard, I almost choked on my sandwich when I read that!


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> how's the kitchen going Bob?


 
Good thanks, hope to get the sink and and cooker in tonight, just got a deal in Ikea on an extractor and all, 50% off as it had no box


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 14, 2012)

Looks like hot contender for smallest national EDL demo ever? Confirmation would be nice.

Also IF anarchists or whoever have used this as a platform for kickoff with plod, it's a probable new low in the EDL not just being outdone but actually relegated to a sideshow at their own demo.

And 2 national no shows in a row from Lennon? Serves them right for not buying enough hoodies and facemasks.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 14, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I banned him by the way.


 
Booo.


----------



## Roadkill (Jul 14, 2012)

Combat 18 said:


> I was searching for EDL marches and came across this shit... What have you people got against the EDL??? Do you want Muslim rape gangs all over the place?
> 
> Stupid fucking reds


 
F'kin 'ell


----------



## ddraig (Jul 14, 2012)

lots of huffing on twitter after police deleted a tweet about clearing 'left wing extremists'
fash creaming themselves and re-tweeting a screenshot as it PROVES the left are EXTREME and UNWASHED etc


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2012)

Video here

http://durotrigan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07o.html


----------



## john x (Jul 14, 2012)

ddraig said:


> lots of huffing on twitter after police deleted a tweet about clearing 'left wing extremists'
> fash creaming themselves and re-tweeting a screenshot as it PROVES the left are EXTREME and UNWASHED etc


The police tweeted that the left are unwashed? 

Ah come on now Ted!

john x


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2012)

More goings on as the EDL leave

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/14/seven-arrested-bristol-edl-demonstration?newsfeed=true 

http://durotrigan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/antifa-violence-erupts-in-bristol.html


----------



## ddraig (Jul 14, 2012)

john x said:


> The police tweeted that the left are unwashed?
> 
> Ah come on now Ted!
> 
> john x


no, just about clearing the 'extreme left wing'


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 14, 2012)

Geri said:


> More goings on as the EDL leave
> 
> http://durotrigan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/antifa-violence-erupts-in-bristol.html


 
Hardly the most reliable source.


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Hardly the most reliable source.


 
He clearly has an agenda, but the things he said have happened.


----------



## newbie (Jul 14, 2012)

Geri said:


> Video here


that's a nasty site you might want to consider breaking the links to.


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2012)

newbie said:


> that's a nasty site you might want to consider breaking the links to.


 
I posted the video to show numbers, that's all.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 14, 2012)

Geri said:


> He clearly has an agenda, but the things he said have happened.


 
Martin Smith definitely been nicked has he?


----------



## newbie (Jul 14, 2012)

sure but everybody from here that clicks on the link, as I just did, will show up in their referrer log as coming from Urban75, and they might come back over here causing poor fridge a problem. Just edit a space or two into each of the links, anyone who wants to can follow it easily enough but tehir visit doesn't show as coming from u75..


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2012)

newbie said:


> sure but everybody from here that clicks on the link, as I just did, will show up in their referrer log as coming from Urban75, and they might come back over here causing poor fridge a problem. Just edit a space or two into each of the links, anyone who wants to can follow it easily enough but tehir visit doesn't show as coming from u75..


 
I did that but it hasn't worked.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 14, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Martin Smith definitely been nicked has he?


 lots of reliable people saying it hours ago.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2012)

newbie said:
			
		

> sure but everybody from here that clicks on the link, as I just did, will show up in their referrer log as coming from Urban75, and they might come back over here causing poor fridge a problem. Just edit a space or two into each of the links, anyone who wants to can follow it easily enough but tehir visit doesn't show as coming from u75..



it edits the spaces in and makes links


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 14, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:
			
		

> lots of reliable people saying it hours ago.



who?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 14, 2012)

yeah, even if you change a link now it stays the same as the original
pain


----------



## newbie (Jul 14, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> it edits the spaces in and makes links


live and learn   dunno then, we'll just have to look forward to more nutters.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 14, 2012)

only way is to retype it or past in notepad and add something in the middle then repaste it


----------



## keybored (Jul 14, 2012)

Use code tags

```
https://www.google.co.uk
```
 
or if you want to save people the trouble of c&p, use an anonymizer like anonym.to
http://anonym.to/?https://www.google.co.uk/


----------



## BigTom (Jul 14, 2012)

To break the link you need to add the space in and then also click the button that looks like a chain (or broken chain?) in the edit box to remove the link


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jul 14, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> who?


Bizarely egyptian revolutionary @3arabawy mentioned it. People saying it was for 'spending too long on a megaphone'. Which is funny and outrageous if true.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jul 14, 2012)

Seems a fair chunk of them got off the train here in Swindon after they'd been sent packing. One wit writes:"Avoid Swindon. I mean avoid Swindon more than normal!"


----------



## kalidarkone (Jul 14, 2012)

I went down to Temple meads this morning to see the EDL from out of town escorted to Redcliffe. Later on -about 5ish lots of pockets of EDL all over town. Def gonna kick off later-unsuprisingly.


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2012)

Geri said:


> More goings on as the EDL leave
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/14/seven-arrested-bristol-edl-demonstration?newsfeed=true


 

'Protesters chanted and carried placards, one of which read: "If you can read this you shouldn't be in the EDL."

Mmm...


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2012)

Oh, and its a shame that 'radical' Bristol couldn't have mustered more than 12 people for a protest against Workfare, its good that there was a big turnout, etc but the real issues are much less supported...


----------



## elbows (Jul 15, 2012)

Not sure why but I was sort of expecting a bit more info on todays events. Not that I pay too much attention these days since they seemed to lose all momentum and havent dragged their knuckles round my town for what seems like a very long time now.

Anyway I had a brief sniff round the internet and found some EDL Bristol facebook page where someone was moaning that loads of UAF attacked them outside the Long Bar with bricks, lumps of wood etc, and that most of the EDL just stayed in the pub and watched through the windows. Someone else sounded unimpressed at the number of EDL people who looked 15.

So I guess its back to me mostly ignoring this stuff again.


----------



## Geri (Jul 15, 2012)

That wasn't the UAF.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 15, 2012)

Geri said:


> That wasn't the UAF.


 anyone who doesn't like EDL is UAF. Do you not read the memos.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2012)

good report from bristol. piss poor turnout from EDL. no mr tommy. not very good was it?
http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/710279


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2012)

this tactic of 'lining the streets' is a success once again: brighton and bristol. it also encourages people to avoid the UAF/police kettle and 'official counter-demos' that get taken by plod far away!


----------



## john x (Jul 15, 2012)

Going back to the 'IRA' march in Liverpool earlier in the year, it was not the combined forces of the Cxf, NWI, NF and EDL which stopped it, it was actually Merseyside Police who told the organisers that they couldn't reach their rally point and all the far-right did was claim it as their victory. All they actually did was stand at a crossroads shouting 'fuck the pope' and 'hang the IRA' at anyone walking by.

The fash that day had a pitiful turnout, but the police action got their tails up and they went on later to attack a Republican flute band and smash up a couple of their minibuses.

In Bristol yesterday, the police ensured that the vastly outnumbered EDL were allowed to march by charging the opposition with horses. Those going to Liverpool next Saturday should bear this in mind. Also bear in mind that there will be a lot of anger resulting from the far-right's use of the names and pictures of the two wee boys killed by the IRA in Warrington on their posters.

Oh and if I detected a whiff of 'distaste' earlier, about the renewed involvement of Irish Republicans in the Liverpool anti-fascist movement, may I remind you that members of the Irish community and Irish Republican supporters have played a large part in the British anti-fascist movement for the past 40 years.

Peace and love

john x


----------



## SeaSalt (Jul 15, 2012)

im English till i die
im English till i die
i no i am
im sure i am 
im English till i die


E-E-EDL! E-E-EDL!!!


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

Well done!


----------



## renegadechicken (Jul 15, 2012)

SeaSalt said:


> im English till i die
> im English till i die
> i no i am
> im sure i am
> ...


hahahahaha


----------



## SeaSalt (Jul 15, 2012)

You think your fucking funny?

Allah, Allah, who the fuck is Allah?


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 15, 2012)

SeaSalt said:


> im English till i die
> im English till i die
> i no i am
> im sure i am
> ...


 
OK

Just fuck off and die, sorted


----------



## renegadechicken (Jul 15, 2012)

no no no  my name is Alla*N* ...close though


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2012)

Combat 18 said:


> I was searching for EDL marches and came across this shit... What have you people got against the EDL??? Do you want Muslim rape gangs all over the place?
> 
> Stupid fucking reds


 
what the fuck are these fash doing here?


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 15, 2012)

Why did he get banned so quickly?

These guys are fun.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 15, 2012)

That one went as quickly as he came.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jul 15, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> what the fuck are these fash doing here?


 
But think of the MUSLAMIC RAY GUNS!!!


----------



## john x (Jul 15, 2012)

Combat 18: I registered on that commie U75 page yesterday. I really told them!

Sea Salt: Wow, what did they do?

Combat 18: They banned me. Couldn't handle the truth!

Sea Salt: Wow, I'm having some of that. Link?

Combat 18: www.urban75.net Fill your boots fellow patriot!

Sea Salt: They banned me.

Combat 18: They can't handle the truth. Proof that nationalism is on the rise!

Sea Salt: Pint?

Combat 18: Go on then. Shame about the mighty Rangers.......

john x


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

That's nice dear.


----------



## cesare (Jul 15, 2012)




----------



## john x (Jul 15, 2012)

I love the way that after my pisstake of E E EDL Idiots coming on here making cocks of themselves what happens?

Another one comes on here and makes a cock of himself!

The stupid is very strong, today! 

john x


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm just going to flat-out delete them from now on. (There was another one there for anyone reading this who didn't see them.)

Interestingly, using the same proxy as that twat who did the "I'm a racist" thread so I've now banned him too.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2012)

its all they can do. the twitter feed yesterday was being 'sabotaged' by some lardarse twittering 'facts' about muslims - thinking that everyone would read them rather than ignore them. they also still dont get that antifascists hate the EDL cos theyre fascist fuckbugles and not cos we and 'love islam.' it is their poor thinking that has led to no-one taking them seriously as a political force.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2012)

john x said:


> Going back to the 'IRA' march in Liverpool earlier in the year, it was not the combined forces of the Cxf, NWI, NF and EDL which stopped it, it was actually Merseyside Police who told the organisers that they couldn't reach their rally point and all the far-right did was claim it as their victory. All they actually did was stand at a crossroads shouting 'fuck the pope' and 'hang the IRA' at anyone walking by.
> 
> The fash that day had a pitiful turnout, but the police action got their tails up and they went on later to attack a Republican flute band and smash up a couple of their minibuses.
> 
> ...


theres a thread on indymedia about the liverpool thing and some considerable confusion from left and right over IRA. is it just my memory or did they stop existing a wee while ago? and yr right john, it is plod that stops marches and also guarantee that EDL events go ahead despite mass local hostility. the balance has tipped in favour of the antifascists now and the EDLs pitiful turnouts mean that any agression by plod is focussed on the counter-demos. liverpool will be interesting. hopefully republicans and antifascists etc can realise that it is the same people attacking their individual events and do some growing up. remember the concept of solidarity? it was quite fashionable in the 80s!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2012)

of course all this is missing the main discussion point of the weekend: how is bob's kitchen doing?


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 15, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> But think of the MUSLAMIC RAY GUNS!!!



Xmas number 1?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 15, 2012)

john x said:


> I love the way that after my pisstake of E E EDL Idiots coming on here making cocks of themselves what happens?
> 
> Another one comes on here and makes a cock of himself!
> 
> ...


 
they're all just over-excited from posting racist comments on Amir Khan videos, it'll pass.


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 15, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> what the fuck are these fash doing here?


 They had to do something to fill their time seeing as hardly any of them went to Bristol.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> fuckbugles


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 15, 2012)

SeaSalt said:


> You think your fucking funny?
> 
> Allah, Allah, who the fuck is Allah?


 
Your dad.

Oh no, that's Asif.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 15, 2012)

Spymaster said:


> Why did he get banned so quickly?
> 
> These guys are fun.


 
Bloody killjoy mods!


----------



## john x (Jul 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> is it just my memory or did they stop existing a wee while ago?


 
They did, over 15 years ago but the far-right in Liverpool and the North West are donkey's led by cretins.

Next Saturday's 'anti-IRA' march is called to oppose a 'James Larkin' and trades union event. "James Larkin was an IRA man who was shot by the British for trying to plant a bomb" is what they are saying. Er...no! He was a founder member of the Irish Labour Party and he died peacefully in his bed in his 70s. I think they may be confusing him with James Connolly, another socialist who was shot by the British for his part in the Easter Rising. How in god's name can you mobilise opposition to something based on getting a frigging name wrong?

But then these are the clowns who tried to organise to stop this year's St Patrick's Day Parade in Liverpool because St Patrick's Day is a front for the IRA. And as if that isn't bad enough, they also tried to organise a boycott of Clinton's cards because they were selling St Pat's Day cards with the 'Irish flag on them' which was an "insult to all those murdered by the IRA".

I kid you not! These people are the absolute personification of stupidity!

john x


----------



## Wasim (Jul 15, 2012)

SeaSalt said:


> You think your fucking funny?
> 
> Allah, Allah, who the fuck is Allah?


 
Assalamalykum warah-matulahi wa-barakah-tu.

EDL pig scum


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

Same person.


----------



## Wasim (Jul 15, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> But think of the MUSLAMIC RAY GUNS!!!




Assalamualaikum

Look at this blue eyed devil, soo funny. I want to keep him as a pet.


----------



## Corax (Jul 15, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://twitpic.com/e/1fmj


2nd one: http://twitpic.com/a0hkh1

"Going for the juggler" lol


----------



## purenarcotic (Jul 15, 2012)

Wasim said:


> Assalamualaikum
> 
> Look at this blue eyed devil, soo funny. I want to keep him as a pet.


 
The original the remix is made from is on another level. It has such gems as: 

'They're trying to put the Iraqi law down on London' 

'Which Iraqi law is this?'

'It's the Muslim, the Muslamic law' 

and: 

'They've got their law, it's their law obviously'


----------



## Wasim (Jul 15, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> The original the remix is made from is on another level. It has such gems as:
> 
> 'They're trying to put the Iraqi law down on London'
> 
> ...


 
This has to be a joke? Do you have a link to the original video?


----------



## purenarcotic (Jul 15, 2012)

Wasim said:


> This has to be a joke? Do you have a link to the original video?


----------



## Wasim (Jul 15, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


>




I am in stitches...

Iraqi Law In London - Muslamic Law???
Muslamic??? - lol Did he make that word up?
Interracial Law - comedy gold
Muslamic Infidel - Does he now know the meaning of the word Infidel?


----------



## purenarcotic (Jul 15, 2012)

Wasim said:


> I am in stitches...
> 
> Iraqi Law In London - Muslamic Law???
> Muslamic??? - lol Did he make that word up?
> ...


 
It's great innit.  Really cheers me up if I'm feeling a bit low.


----------



## Wasim (Jul 15, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> It's great innit. Really cheers me up if I'm feeling a bit low.


 
I just showed this to my father, he is a devout Muslim and even he found this hilarious.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 15, 2012)

Nice try 

Same troll as before ad nauseam.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

What a surprise!


----------



## claphamboy (Jul 15, 2012)

Wasim said:


> I am in stitches...


 
Me too, haven't watched that in a while, but it's still as funny as it was the first time around. 

ETA: Just seen FM's post, oh well.


----------



## Corax (Jul 15, 2012)

Why aren't we allowed to keep them Fridgey?

We can interrogate their motivations, gently highlight their erroneous beliefs, and persuade them to recant and perhaps spread their new enlightenment to fellow 'patriots'.

I'm sure they're all lovely chaps really, and if we amicably reason with them then they'll realise where they've gone wrong.

No?  Oh well.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 15, 2012)




----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

Terrible that salmonella.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 15, 2012)




----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2012)

I just wrote malatesta this thing about fascism, i'm sure it's not perfect so dunno if anyone wants to take a look at it and give a critique?

________________________________________________________________________-

What is wrong with this list that has been circulating around the internet?

The problem is that it relys on a crude caricature of the USA as being or getting similar to fascism. I will go through it and say what is wrong with it.

Nobody could possibly dispute most of the items on the list as having been employed by fascist states. The problem however is that these are all things that are employed by so-called "democratic" bourgeois states, Stalinist ones etc, and the presence of one of those items on the list or even all of it doesn't mean that the state is fascist.

Let's take nationalism for example, which is the first item on the list. Every state uses some kind of concept of nationalism and indeed the concept of nationalism has been a progressive concept in the past, the idea that people could be united by living in a common area rather than by religion or which family you had ties to, which used to be the more usual one and led to far more wars and bloodshed. You can be a nationalist and not be a fascist and indeed many Irish republicans etc, could fall into this category.

Nationalism is indeed used by the fash, but it's used to a much greater extent to what's found in most states. It's also tied in with a concept of people being excluded from the nation as well even if it's insisted that they're "not racist" etc. The thing with fascism is that as well as nationalism there's also an idea that the nation has been in some way humiliated or persecuted. The mythology of the backstabbinf of the treaty of versailles for example. The preoccupation with "community decline" - imagining that the nation has been ruined in whatever, morally or whatever (often in terms of sexual morality), the imagery of the nation as say as a woman raped by foreigners etc.

So what happens with nationalism is not that it aint there but its content.


"disdain for the recognition of human rights" - this applies to all states none of them give a shit about human rights and actually during the early part of the 1930s this was used as an obsessive focus of Nazi propaganda against Poland and Czechoslovakia - the idea that the germans there being maltreated and so something had to be done about it. In addition Nazi propaganda presented the USA as being somewhere were black people were maltreated (yes I know!!)

Identification of scapegoats - this indeed happens in fascism but it also happens in this country as well (benefit scroungers etc) and this country is a long way off being fascist. I don't think it's just the identification of them, it's what's done about it. Within a few years of the fash being in power in Germany they had removed almost all Jews from the upper echelons of the upper middle classes, they had stopped them going being doctors or having high positions in corporations etc, they had thrown them out of most public sector jobs, they had stopped them being teachers, htey had confiscated property etc,they had basically set about their complete exclusion from social and economic life in Germany.

Most countries have scapegoats, they might even attempt to do stuff like this on a limited scale, but they won't restrict all access to any other information. Even in South Africa, as unpleasant as that regime was, people still had access to opposing views.

Scapegoats in fascism are indeed used to unify the country but it's done to a much more extreme extent than other states, the fact that a state is doing it doesn't mean that state is fascist.

Supremacy of the Military - this is a bit problematic this one. The military is used in fascist propaganda, the fash have a good wank over it, etc, and society is militarised, the human body is fetishised in terms of its physical power rather than intellectual power etc. However there are two very important things that this misses.

1) The fash might have a good wank over soldiers etc but they *don't* want the military to have all the power because the military threaten their power. In fascist states the Party has all of the power, they will try and adapt the military to their own aims. they will even set up alternative institutions to the actual military such as the SS and the SA. the Wehrmacht hated the SS. _Hated_ them.

A fascist party will have its _*own*_ paramilitary unit(s), that's what makes them fascist. The nazis had the SA/SS, the Italian fash had the squadristi, etc.They might rein them in if they threaten the partys power but they will still have them.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2012)

2) The fash don't only worship the military for it's own sake, they worship it because of both what it reprsents (health, vitality, all that shit) and also because of their territorial ambitions, about redressing the fact the nation has been humiliated by regaining the lost symbols of their humiliation. For example laying claim to various territories (or increasing their claim on various territories). If a fash party came to power in the UK you would probably imo see them openly disccussing invading Ireland after a while for example, un-devolving Scotland etc.

Rampant sexism - yep, this is certainly a part of fascism. However, it's also been a feature of loads of countries which, while backward, aren't exactly fascist (for example switzerland not giving women the vote till the 80s lol).

What I would say is a feature of fascism is the obsessive preoccupation with community decline and the attacking of enemies for example in sexual terms, for example Hitler's rants in Mein Kampf about syphilis and gonnorhea. The fash see the nation like a body and individual sexual morality is linked to national morality, to them it is the same thing. If you fuck a black man you're destroying the purity of the national body as well as the purity of your own body. Therefore if say somebody is gay it is seen as damaging the nation, if immigrants are "raping" the country it means they are actually raping people etc.

The sexist thing is complicated because women do play a major role in fascist movements. Fascism also started as a secular thing as well. However I'd say that in general the whole message of fascism does tend to lend itself to extreme misogyny, the whole emphasis on "traditionalism" and the hatred of "weakness" and all that bollocks.

Controlled mass media - yep absolutely. However all countries do this to an extent, there aint any such thing as total freedom of speech. The fash however? they do it to an extent that almost no, or no opposing views get out.

Obsession with national security - all states do this especially at a time of "crisis".

Corporate power is protected - Name me a country where this doesn't happen?

What happens in fascism is something called "corporativism". The fash believe in class collaboration. They believe that unions and bosses should work together for the "good" of the nation (for the ideological purposes of fascism), which of course ends up meaning that in practice the unions end up rubber stamping the bosses' decisions. This is what happened in Fascist Italy. The fash will also try and gear the economy towards militaristic aims by offering incentives to companies to do so etc. In 1930s Germany a lot of companies ended up making their workers swear an oath of allegiance to the fuhrer on a regular basis.

Labour Power is suppressed - The fash will try to destroy working class power utterly. What happened in fascism is more than restrictive laws against trade unions, it was destroying working class power in the most brutal way possible. They will also try to set up their own unions and force the workers to join those.They will even purge people who believe in working class power within their own party.

Of course, capital will only promote fascism as a last resort.The bourgeoisie fear the fash almost as much as they fear the power of the working class, because the fash will also try and force their bollocks onto the rich as well (although not as vigorously). The fash might adopt the language of Marxism - Mussolini used to be a socialist before he started fascism,they might even adopt some popularist and pseudo socialist ideas, part of the whole thing about fascism is that they try to attract the petit bourgeoisie and the lumpenproletariat and elements of the working class, they do that by having some socialist ideas, even adopting some of them, and not making it obvious they're fash (although the violence etc will display otherwise). They've never done this (make themselves into a caricature and get ny real power), they never did it even back in the 20s and 30s.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - yep, although I'd say that it was the hatred of a certain type of intellectual (that's also linked into the hatred of women as well). Intellectuals are seen as weak and fascism is quite an anti illectaual movement.One of the slogans of the spanish fash was "death to intelligence"  That said, I think that the Nazi and fascist movement was keen to encourage the pseudo intellectual filth of the likes of Rosenberg, Spengler, etc, as a philosophical backing behind the violence and cruelty of fascism, and in the attempts to portray fascism as soley about lumpen thuggishness this has has perhaps been little recognised, because there were fascist intellectuals who offered the most sickening justifications for their beliefs.

I've not mentioned this but it is IMO the most important part of what fascism is so sorry I ain't mentioned it until now, this is what the list misses off. *Fascsim is "palingenetic ultranationalism". *Palingenesis meaning the rebirth of society into a modern version of the golden age the fash look back to and the destruction of the (degenerate) current society. There is no analysis behind fascism although a lot of the fash are very clever, but there isn't really any actual theory behind it. It's not about intellectual analysis, this is why fascism always involves a charismatic leader/s as well and asks people to believe, its like a secular religion. When Mussolini tried to define fascism in the 20s he couldnt do it, he ended up describing it as like a faith and like a feeling. They think that the nation can be reborn again without all the degeneracy and all that bollocks and that they are the ones to do it. They think back to a golden age where moral standards didn't slip and the country had its rightful place in the world - and they also think that they can bring that about again.

There is a massive emphasis on action in fascism as opposed to theory. That "action" usually involving violence or its threat.

ETA: It's all about violence. They glorify violence. They view war as not only avoidable or even a necessity but as desirable from an aesthetic as well as political point of view. "War - the world's only hygiene!" etc. Without violence or the threat in practice as well as in theory it isn't fascism.

Also - *fascism is ALWAYS racist*. Don't believe anyone who says that Italian fascism wasn't racist or that it's possible to be fascist and not racist. It is not. Fascism is always racist, might not involve the nazi one drop rule but it always involves racism of some kind, there are other ways of being racist other than basing it on a genetic basis like the Nazis did. there are ways of forcibly destroying culture and language. The were racist as early as 1920 when they were still "socialist" - they were burning down Slovenian church halls and forcing people to drink petrol.

As such they want to encourage not to think and they counterpose the faith and feeling of the fash who are about action and not thinking etc, with lily-livered marxists who like to sit in rooms and read books etc.

You're bang on about cultural work being state sanctioned.

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - yep. It comes under the community decline thing. The flipside of that is that any dissent will be regarded as crime and that some crimes will not be punished at all. This happens in any state however, they will just go on about it that much more.

They will also use extra-legalistic methods to carry out their aims, as long as the lawbreakers cannot be linked back to the Party in any concrete way, although it will still be known who is responsible. The paramilitary wings will have a token distance from the state (but not really). However, the Nazis were very concerned about carrying out the holocaust in a "lawful" manner - watch the film "conspiracy" for an example of this. Sickening ...

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption/Fraudulent Elections - thing is, this happens in almost every state. There are plenty of dictatorships who do this regularly and they're not fash.

I hope that helped mate let me know if you have any other questions.


----------



## sunny jim (Jul 15, 2012)

Seems the fash took a bit of a kicking later on in town 
http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/710347


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2012)

See this BIM report for more detail.


----------



## Geri (Jul 15, 2012)

Here's the vid


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

Rovers bottlers.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2012)

So the 'GHS Media Crew' ran away and hid on top of a bus shelter to film the arrival of the filth? Classy


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

Was just wondering where it could have been filmed from. And why only that bit has been put up.

Stay classy ghs- the fucking long bar


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2012)

NO SHOPLIFTERS


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2012)

And we clocked you shaky hand cunts in there at 10am. Slipped the ring - you never got in the ring. We had you from church road 9am onwards. What a poor show for your visiting mates.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 15, 2012)

*(EDL) English Defence League*

about an hour ago
You all ready for the 18th aug in walthamstow another hotbed they say we cant go lol
how many times have we heard that
our streets and we go where we say we are nsfe


----------



## audiotech (Jul 16, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> The problem is that it relys on a crude caricature of the USA as being or getting similar to fascism.


 
Not yet had time to read your in-depth post frogwoman, but I think a quote that's been ascribed to Mussolini (disputed) might be a factor here:




> Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.


http://www.publiceye.org/fascist/corporatism.html


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 16, 2012)

thanks yeah as i said a lot of it might be bollocks so feel free to critique etc


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 16, 2012)

This is a timelapse vid of the march, or at least part of it.



For a national level demo it is poor of course, we know the poorest in 3 years - and that is part of a trend.

This is cause now to complain every time he gets on BBC, at least at a national level. He still does with a frequency far out of proportion to that level of support.

When was the last time Auntie had Ian Bone or someone similar on?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 16, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> thanks yeah as i said a lot of it might be bollocks so feel free to critique etc



Sorry FW, did you put up what your thing was a response to?

I go along with much of what you say, but it is not an exact science by any stretch.

It's a bit like those psychological assessments of some fangled "disorder" where if you get a certain number of ticks for factors that are often not clearly definable then - Ta da!

For me, and I read your piece some hours ago so don't recall, I think totalitarianism and authoritarianism are, though far from unique to the fash, absolutely core.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 16, 2012)

SeaSalt said:


> im English till i die
> im English till i die
> i no i am
> im sure i am
> ...



To be fair to our now banned guest, s/he is hitting on a central feature of nationality, in that where you were born remains the same till the day you shift off this mortal coil.

I don't know about some posts like that though

I know I am criticised for my attitude with regard to literacy levels in the patriot community, but is there no floor at all? Anyone who can't distinguish "no" from "know" might well not be English at all. 

Could some of them be immigrants just picking up the lingo as they go, thinking they might be better accepted by acting that way?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

What?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

Maybe there should be some sort of citizenship test? We could get rid of loads that way. 

(madrigal based of course).


----------



## elbows (Jul 16, 2012)

Oh that every day could start with unintended comedy.

'I dont mean to alarm you Mr & Mrs Local, but your son has failed his illiteracy test, leading us to suspect he's not really from round these parts'.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 16, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Sorry FW, did you put up what your thing was a response to?
> 
> I go along with much of what you say, but it is not an exact science by any stretch.
> 
> ...


that was my point about the list


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 16, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> To be fair to our now banned guest, s/he is hitting on a central feature of nationality, in that where you were born remains the same till the day you shift off this mortal coil.
> 
> I don't know about some posts like that though
> 
> ...


 
why do you keep saying this shit?


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 16, 2012)

It's counter-productive.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2012)

oh dear, what a massive success bristol was:
http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/710352?&condense_comments=false#comment56627


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 16, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> why do you keep saying this shit?



In case the vile shit was still reading in this instance, or any of that crowd. 

I taught in high schools, FE and Adult Ed for many years, almost always in very deprived areas. One of my qualifications is specific to teaching adults basic literacy.

You may not like it, you may think it counter-productive, but sadly it is not "shit". 

The mistake cited is rare among 12 year olds. Among the EDL it is pretty common. It's possible s/he made it semi deliberately, as a celebration of ignorance.

I see such fuckery every day, loads of it. I live in a highly mixed area and find the bigotry an affront, as I am sure you do.

I am no nationalist but I do love the language. People such as our departed guest are an utter disgrace to the language, claiming as they do to speak on behalf of the nation.

They are vile bullies. They are hypocritical. They are a curse. They are fair game.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

Oh just shut up.


----------



## john x (Jul 16, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> oh dear, what a massive success bristol was:
> http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/710352?&condense_comments=false#comment56627


Given the purpose of this visit to Bristol was simply to show the people of the town that they can march where they want, hiding in a pub while their fellow patriots are getting a kicking cannot really be classed as a success! 

john x


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 16, 2012)

TBF hiding in a car park with two hundred mates and surrounded by a protective cordon of a thousand cops who then mind you on a ten minute stroll to a deserted, fenced-off square for a couple of speeches before being minded back to the car park and then home isn't up there with Agincourt either.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

Oh ricky boy, what went wrong?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Maybe there should be some sort of citizenship test? We could get rid of loads that way.
> 
> (madrigal based of course).



I'm not for mass deportation of any description Butchers. Neither do I think it right to impose them on other unsuspecting nations. I expect they'd generally fail the current test, which AFAIK doesn't cover musical form at all. That's not a 'citizen' matter really but it is part of our rich culture they claim to love dearly.

So perhaps a "Patriots" test is a better idea. No penalty for the vast majority who would surely fail, apart from being made aware that they know next to fuck all about this country and have no place claiming to speak for it or determining who is, and isn't 'English any more' to a Welsh tune. 

Fair game.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

You _are_ the edl.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 16, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You may not like it, you may think it counter-productive, but sadly it is not "shit".


 
The bourgeois morality you've clearly taken on board is just that.

Most of these suckers, being led down a path to nowhere, whilst being fleeced along the way by their unelected, unaccountable, so-called "leaders", have more than likely been denied the educational "opportunities" you've had, or what educational "opportunities" there has been has and is dire.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 16, 2012)

It's not about people being easily led necessarily. There are plenty of decent people with progressive views, who certainly aren't thick but for whatever reasons received an inadequate education, and they're just going to give you a wide berth.  Or their friends, families, etc.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 16, 2012)

I didn't say "easily" and it certainly hasn't been for the ego's at the head, nonetheless, it's clear a number of people are still following this path to nowhere.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Oh ricky boy, what went wrong?


 
they lost. as usual, bullies cant handle it when it comes on top. cowards stayed in pub as usual which will lead to further recriminations over who 'stood' and who 'bottled it.' shithouses.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2012)

john x said:


> Given the purpose of this visit to Bristol was simply to show the people of the town that they can march where they want, hiding in a pub while their fellow patriots are getting a kicking cannot really be classed as a success!
> 
> john x


these fuck bugles and cockpots cannot go 'where they want when they want' and never have as they need a massive police mobilisation to hide behind. they say they do flash demos to avoid plod when it is actually to avoid opposition who outnumber them - and plod turn out anyway. imagine if there had been no plod protection on saturday. carnage! and whats happening with bobs kitchen?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> To be fair to our now banned guest, s/he is hitting on a central feature of nationality, in that where you were born remains the same till the day you shift off this mortal coil.


 
Where you are born is an accident of birth. It only has significance if you attribute significance to it, "taffboy". 



> I don't know about some posts like that though
> 
> I know I am criticised for my attitude with regard to literacy levels in the patriot community, but is there no floor at all? Anyone who can't distinguish "no" from "know" might well not be English at all.
> 
> Could some of them be immigrants just picking up the lingo as they go, thinking they might be better accepted by acting that way?


 
What the fucking fuck?
I suspect txtspk has more to do with it than immigration does.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2012)

elbows said:


> Oh that every day could start with unintended comedy.
> 
> 'I dont mean to alarm you Mr & Mrs Local, but your son has failed his illiteracy test, leading us to suspect he's not really from round these parts'.


 
"Your son, not to put too fine a point on it, is a *J.F."
"Oh Lord, Bertrand, what will the Shandwicks think?"

*Johnny Foreigner


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2012)

Most of these suckers, being led down a path to nowhere, whilst being fleeced along the way by their unelected, unaccountable, so-called "leaders", have more than likely been denied the educational "opportunities" you've had, or what educational "opportunities" there has been has and is dire.[/quote]

yes they are suckers and have been very slow to realise they have been fleeced and achieved nothing. mr tommy has dine a disapearing act! they are being led down a path to nowhere, will get nowhere and are shrinking with every demo. even tommy cant be arsed these days. some of them really are thick as fuck and some of the sharper ones have been fooled. as for opportunities it is not unheard of for working class people with very little formal education to get one by using their own initiative and the 'i never had a chance' is often a disingenuous 'i never really bothered' as its easier to blame others for your own shortcomings.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> these fuck bugles and cockpots cannot go 'where they want when they want' and never have as they need a massive police mobilisation to hide behind. they say they do flash demos to avoid plod when it is actually to avoid opposition who outnumber them - and plod turn out anyway. imagine if there had been no plod protection on saturday. carnage! and whats happening with bobs kitchen?


 
getting there this was taken Saturday as most EDL where puking on the coaches home....... just finishing touches now over the next week.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2012)

thakns heavens for that! was worried about the formica etc.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2012)

this is how it looked when we bought the house


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2012)

im impressed! getting mine done over summer. shall post progress!


----------



## audiotech (Jul 16, 2012)




----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

> "The main point is we came to Bristol and people have heard us and we have put our point across. We felt the day went well but we will not be coming back to Bristol in the near future."


The _issues_ haven't gone away mickey farm boy.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 16, 2012)

Combat 18 said:


> I was searching for EDL marches and came across this shit... What have you people got against the EDL??? Do you want Muslim rape gangs all over the place?
> 
> Stupid fucking reds


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 16, 2012)

SeaSalt said:


> im English till i die
> im English till i die
> i no i am
> im sure i am
> ...


 
ffs


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2012)

audiotech said:


>


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

_Margaret rested sagely on her frame as she watched the march pass._


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2012)

I was thinking about doing the walls in White.....


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I was thinking about doing the walls in White.....


 
Well I hope you take pride in it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2012)

Decorating is intrinsically a metaphor for the suppression of the white race. You put strong white primer on, which is then covered up by coloureds.


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I was thinking about doing the walls in White.....


A big expanse of white will feel too cold and clinical.  You need to break it up with a bit of colour.  Try adding a couple of broad red stripes, one horizontal and one vertical.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

And if you're not careful you end up looking like this:


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 16, 2012)

Corax said:


> A big expanse of white will feel too cold and clinical. You need to break it up with a bit of colour. Try adding a couple of broad red stripes, one horizontal and one vertical.


 
Yes, like the ones on ambulances in war zones.


----------



## krink (Jul 16, 2012)

you could add a little black to the red and white:


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> _Margaret rested sagely on her frame as she watched the march pass._


outstanding 'local journalism.' very poor!


----------



## manny-p (Jul 16, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I am no nationalist but I do love the language. People such as our departed guest are an utter disgrace to the language, claiming as they do to speak on behalf of the nation.
> 
> They are vile bullies. They are hypocritical. They are a curse. They are fair game.


 
Mary mother of god! SHUT THE FUCK UP will you!


----------



## elbows (Jul 16, 2012)

Speak & Spell did not serve the anti-fascist well.


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2012)

elbows said:


> Speak & Spell did not serve the anti-fascist well.


I've just spent 10 minutes searching the web for some Speak&Spell wav sounds, to no avail.  

I loved my Speak&Spell.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 16, 2012)

Corax said:


> I've just spent 10 minutes searching the web for some Speak&Spell wav sounds, to no avail.
> 
> I loved my Speak&Spell.


 
There's a free emulator on android.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 16, 2012)

And online...

http://www.speaknspell.co.uk/

You can't have looked very hard.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 16, 2012)

_ 0 0 101_


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> And online...
> 
> http://www.speaknspell.co.uk/
> 
> You can't have looked very hard.


Found that, but it's either fucked, or it just doesn't like my browser/plugins/something.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 16, 2012)

Corax said:


> Found that, but it's either fucked, or it just doesn't like my browser/plugins/something.


 
Yeah realised that after linking to it. The android works though. No idea if you have an android thingymajig though.


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Yeah realised that after linking to it. The android works though. No idea if you have an android thingymajig though.


I do, but I'm not entirely convinced I want to use my precious processing power on this...  

I admit to having 'fun buttons' installed - but there's a surprisingly frequent number of opportunities to pepper the conversation with clown music, or lightsabres, or Simpsons catchphrases.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 16, 2012)

I had a quick go with it.

_"SPELL LERLNMPHL"_

What, spell lorry?

_"SPELL LERLNMPHL"_

OK, L-O-R-R-Y

_"No, It's L-E-A-R-N. Now you spell LERLNMPHL"_


----------



## audiotech (Jul 16, 2012)

oops


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 16, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> In case the vile shit was still reading in this instance, or any of that crowd.
> 
> I taught in high schools, FE and Adult Ed for many years, almost always in very deprived areas. One of my qualifications is specific to teaching adults basic literacy.
> 
> ...


 
i know several people who make that mistake.

attack their fucking politics. They're FASH. Attack them for that. Otherwise you might as well laugh at a fash for being ginger, or for having a hairy bum, well whats the fcking point of that when there are other things you can attack them for - like BEING FASH


----------



## audiotech (Jul 16, 2012)

More on the claim of 'marching where we want when we want'



http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/edl-fascists-antifa-police-lgbt-bristol-gay-pride


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 16, 2012)

"loook at that fash, and his massive hairy bum, there isn't an excuse for keeping your bum that hairy as an english patriot"

that's the level you'r're at taffboy. political criticism it ain't. deal with the fact they're fash and attack them on that basis. attack their politics. otherwise you're scarcely any better than them. fascist movements are made up of tonnes of people with a similar attitude to yours and they look down on those that aren't too. It isn't all uneducated losers who are shit at spelling and don't know their own language.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 17, 2012)

Bristol


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 17, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i know several people who make that mistake.
> 
> attack their fucking politics. They're FASH. Attack them for that. Otherwise you might as well laugh at a fash for being ginger, or for having a hairy bum, well whats the fcking point of that when there are other things you can attack them for - like BEING FASH



I do attack the politics, though in the case of the rank and file those politics are often so shallow and poorly expressed that it makes for not much in volume to attack. What's behind those politics? Hate, fear etc. I attack that (or question it, full on attack can be counter productive too)

Obviously, one ought not to attack frequent poor expression of ideas - it's intellectual snobbery
. Instead I will aim to celebrate and respect the diversity of how bile-filled hate can be expressed.

I also focus on attacking/questioning/observing/deriding: warped logic, paranoia and double standards.

One area where politics can be more fully attacked is with regards to BFP, especially some positions and rhetoric which don't stack up internally or in reference to EDL rhetoric.

All these things I do, I don't suppose they would be attacked here so I don't end up defending them here, it doesn't mean I don't do them. Derision is a standard weapon in the political armoury, always has been and always will be.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 17, 2012)

audiotech said:


> More on the claim of 'marching where we want when we want'
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/edl-fascists-antifa-police-lgbt-bristol-gay-pride




I like the piece ta, but I  couldn't help notice a frequent mocking tone.

It describes EDL members as inarticulate, some of their points as incomprehensible and clearly suggests many of their ideas to be absurd.

I hope you and /or authors are prepared for criticism on the grounds that it is bad anti fascism. It could even be counter productive. What If people read it and think 'It said EDL were inarticulate, now I am going to hate muslims!'?

Food for thought eh?

All critique of far rightists should be sober, ernest and respectful of their needs, challenges and bitter hatreds

It would be nice for an urbanite to write up a piece along lines of 'Challenging Extreme Hate With Sensitivity and Awareness Of Cultural Context'

A group with so many Breivik apologists deserves nothing less than for us to workshop our learnings ASAP, lest we upset the poor mites and put them off their ongoing critique of  the nexus of dirty muslim peados and evil leftists running the world.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 17, 2012)

you are one dreary fucker.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 17, 2012)

sunnysidedown said:


> you are one dreary fucker.



You might think that, but you have to politely attack the politics, nothing else counts. What if the dreariness is down to social background? That would make you offensive.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You might think that, but you have to politely attack the politics, nothing else counts. What if the dreariness is down to social background? That would make you offensive.



What politics?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 17, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...er-corner/790-demo-day-defeats-tommy-robinson


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 17, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> What politics?


 quite a large mention of politics in the earlier of the 2 posts as it goes. But you make part of my point to FW for me.

In a lot of EDL cases, there's scant politics to criticise, just hate.

There's a context to that hate for sure, and means of pulling apart such politics as there is, but there's little point. When just met with something on the lines of 'your just brainwashed  uaf you support pedos you need to realise what is happening'


----------



## elbows (Jul 17, 2012)

Too busy spelling it to prevent them selling it, uh huh Im smelling it.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:
			
		

> You might think that, but you have to politely attack the politics, nothing else counts. What if the dreariness is down to social background? That would make you offensive.


What the frig?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> quite a large mention of politics in the earlier of the 2 posts as it goes. But you make part of my point to FW for me.
> 
> In a lot of EDL cases, therks scant politics to criticise, just hate.
> 
> There's a context to that hate for sure, and means of pulling apart such politics as there is, but there's little point. When just met with something on the lines of 'ytour just uaf you support pedos you need to realise what is happening'



Describing their politics as 'just hate' is the same as describing the progressive left as 'the politics of envy'. As in, it doesn't touch the politics that lead to those positions. People don't turn to the far right because they can't spell ffs. They can't spell because they've been failed by neo-liberalism and they seek an alternative to that system and have jumped to the right rather than the left. You need to question why that has happened. Laughing at literacy levels doesn't achieve that. All you're saying is "neo-liberalism has failed you ha ha ha ha".


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 17, 2012)

I know lots of people failed by neoliberalism who can spell and a fair few who have done well who can't spell so well.

You are ignoring the list of things I said I have attacked far beyond poor use of the national language in nationalists. . You are ignoring that I said there was a context to the hate.

Let's ernestly address the politics of this, keeping in mind the delicate souls of the victims of capitalism who dreamed it up

https://mobile.twitter.com/Exposingdarcy/status/225123113594142721/photo/1


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 17, 2012)

About 15 minutes ago a post appeared on an anti edl page of FB.

"Fucking nobs get a bath" it said.

This was an ascorbic political attack on anti fascism, including a strong inference thay anti-fascists are dirty/smelly and don't wash.

I'm given to understand it's a common joke in far right circles.

Can anyone give a deeper political analysis of the statement to aid critique? 

Is there any evidence it was made by a victim of neoliberalism, or would that be supposition?


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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

..Just read through the EDL mission statement: http://englishdefenceleague.org/about-us/mission-statement/ ..many (not all) of the issues they stand for are valid in my opinion... having said that, marching through the streets waving your fist is a ridiculously ineffective way to prevent the 'dangerous divisions' they claim to be trying to avoid..

..I don't think people want ritual mutilation of children's genitals or cattle killed in a way that bypasses the law, It's unacceptable. so given the fact the EDL are just making things worse, who IS going to deal with this properly?


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## Citizen66 (Jul 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:
			
		

> About 15 minutes ago a post appeared on an anti edl page of FB.
> 
> "Fucking nobs get a bath" it said.
> 
> ...



So because a member of the far right has called a lefty smelly on Facebook that justifies us being bereft of political thought on here? 

They aren't necessarily victims of neo liberalism, they are seeking an alternative to it. They won't all share the same reasons. The EDL that I personally heard banging on in a pub in my hometown was saying "can't even get a job as a taxi driver as the Pakis have it all sewn up". So I'd hazard a guess that he's driven by economical reasons and yes, neo liberalism is responsible for that.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:
			
		

> ..Just read through the EDL mission statement: http://englishdefenceleague.org/about-us/mission-statement/ ..many (not all) of the issues they stand for are valid in my opinion... having said that, marching through the streets waving your fist is a ridiculously ineffective way to prevent the 'dangerous divisions' they claim to be trying to avoid..
> 
> ..I don't think people want ritual mutilation of children's genitals or cattle killed in a way that bypasses the law, It's unacceptable. so given the fact the EDL are just making things worse, who IS going to deal with this properly?



Don't fall for it. They're cherry picking the most distasteful parts of extreme Islam to further their goals. As if they're into animal rights and are radical feminists ffs.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You might think that, but you have to politely attack the politics, nothing else counts. What if the dreariness is down to social background? That would make you offensive.


 
politeness has fuck all to do with it. you don't have to be polite to fash. some kind of political critique that attacks them on their politics and not some bullshit would be nice though. otherwise you're just being their recruiting sergeant with your middle class sneering


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2012)

there are masses of people who cant read and write properly. Masses of them. you think all of them are fash? Are they fuck. A lot of them would be fucking insulted at being linked to the likes of the EDL. I have a mate who can't read properly. And you attack them on that basis. Frankly if you do so you're helping the fash recruit. You think the fash don't lament the poor state of literacy among their ranks either? Of course they do, they're fash.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You might think that, but you have to politely attack the politics, nothing else counts. What if the dreariness is down to social background? That would make you offensive.


 
look at the way i speak to and about fash on here. you think that's polite? is it fuck. what it's not is attacking them on irrelevant bullshit. You may as well look at them and go "They look a bit too dusky to be proper specimens of the aryan race lol"


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## butchersapron (Jul 17, 2012)

Why are you having such a problem grasping this taffboy? Satire, scorn and derision when done properly, with intelligence wit and informed targeting is a formidable weapon. When done by you though it's just shit and revealing of a pretty deep-seated class based prejudices and petty _poverty of aspiration_ type misanthropy. When _your_ shit satire is attacked please don't mistake this for an attack on the idea of satire full stop.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why are you having such a problem grasping this taffboy? Satire, scorn and derision when done properly, with intelligence wit and informed targeting is a formidable weapon. When done by you though it's just shit and revealing of a pretty deep-seated class based prejudices and petty _poverty of aspiration_ type misanthropy. When _your_ shit satire is attacked please don't mistake this for an attack on the idea of satire full stop.


 
yep. he hates people.

shit my mum fucking makes some of the same spelling mistakes that you laugh at and you associate with the edl. not everyone is great at spelling and i've seen a few typos in your posts myself. nobody fucking knows what a madrigal is either, i'm petty bourgeois and i don't fucking know what it is either.


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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Don't fall for it. They're cherry picking the most distasteful parts of extreme Islam to further their goals. As if they're into animal rights and are radical feminists ffs.


 

Distasteful? Yes. Extreme Islam? Really? Pretty sure most muslim boys have their genitals cut for Allah. Also watch (if you have a strong stomach) halal meat production videos on youtube. Every muslim eats halal, it's mainstream.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HQOKQ__3vQw

I wish I could watch that and be able to turn a blind eye but I can't.

We have laws in this country to prevent this kind of cruelty but they aren't being followed! Why?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:
			
		

> Distasteful? Yes. Extreme Islam? Really? Pretty sure most muslim boys have their genitals cut for Allah. Also watch (if you have a strong stomach) halal meat production videos on youtube, every muslim eats halal, it's mainstream.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HQOKQ__3vQw
> 
> ...



Um, I eat halal as well. I've already read arguments that halal meat is no more cruel than western methods. See ymu's posts on the matter. As for Muslim boys being circumcised, why, if it is so terrible, do the EDL have a Jewish division?


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## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2012)

Ever been in a british abattior? go spend a day in one then come back and let us know all about the dangers of Halal and Kosher.


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## butchersapron (Jul 17, 2012)

...and c





Montgolfier said:


> Distasteful? Yes. Extreme Islam? Really? Pretty sure most muslim boys have their genitals cut for Allah. Also watch (if you have a strong stomach) halal meat production videos on youtube. Every muslim eats halal, it's mainstream.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HQOKQ__3vQw
> 
> ...


Circumcision isn't illegal. Real opposition to halal meat can only be based on animal rights grounds - not religious/racial grounds.


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## nino_savatte (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> Distasteful? Yes. Extreme Islam? Really? Pretty sure most muslim boys have their genitals cut for Allah. Also watch (if you have a strong stomach) halal meat production videos on youtube. Every muslim eats halal, it's mainstream.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HQOKQ__3vQw
> 
> ...


The preparation of halal meat is little different to the preparation of kosher meat. As Bob says, maybe you need to visit a British (secular but nonetheless industrial ) abattoir. There is probably less cruelty, relatively speaking, in the butchering of halal and kosher meats than currently exists in the abattoirs.

Circumcision is also a widespread practice in the US and it has nothing at all to do with religion either. In fact, it cuts across all religions.


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## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2012)

I had mine chopped off and im not even Muslamic or Jewish.... so go figure...


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## Citizen66 (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm not actually defending circumcision. I think it can be iffy regarding consent when not undertaken for medical reasons. However, as others have said, it isn't something that's unique to Islam or, indeed, religion.


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## nino_savatte (Jul 17, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I had mine chopped off and im not even Muslamic or Jewish.... so go figure...


Same here.


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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> ...and c
> Real opposition to halal meat can only be based on animal rights grounds - not religious/racial grounds.


 
Uk law states that animals should be stunned before being killed as it's humane to do so. The halal and Kosher methods bypass the law (they are given a pardon) and kill the animal by cutting it's throat and letting it bleed to death, this can take up to a few minutes while the animal is fully concious. This is down to religious superstition and is barbaric.

Perhaps standards do slip in traditional slaughterhouses, but that's not as an excuse to turn a blind eye to this.


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## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> Uk law states that animals should be stunned before being killed as it's humane to do so. The halal and Kosher methods bypass the law (they are given a pardon) and kill the animal by cutting it's throat and letting it bleed to death, this can take up to a few minutes while the animal is fully concious. This is down to religious superstition and is barbaric.
> 
> Perhaps standards do slip in traditional slaughterhouses, but that's not as an excuse to turn a blind eye to this.


 
And Mohammed is a peado yeah.


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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> And Mohammed is a peado yeah.


 
Was fucking a nine year old at that time and place considered to be Pedophilia? Not sure, probably not.


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## butchersapron (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> Uk law states that animals should be stunned before being killed as it's humane to do so. The halal and Kosher methods bypass the law (they are given a pardon) and kill the animal by cutting it's throat and letting it bleed to death, this can take up to a few minutes while the animal is fully concious. This is down to religious superstition and is barbaric.
> 
> Perhaps standards do slip in traditional slaughterhouses, but that's not as an excuse to turn a blind eye to this.


As pointed out numerous times on these boards, even the rspca says (pdf) that 90% of halal slaughter involves pre-stunning. So presumably you would be happy and satisfied if this figure rose to 100%. End achieved and no need to bring anything else into it - right?


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## Citizen66 (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> Uk law states that animals should be stunned before being killed as it's humane to do so. The halal and Kosher methods bypass the law (they are given a pardon) and kill the animal by cutting it's throat and letting it bleed to death, this can take up to a few minutes while the animal is fully concious. This is down to religious superstition and is barbaric.
> 
> Perhaps standards do slip in traditional slaughterhouses, but that's not as an excuse to turn a blind eye to this.



What are your views on the eating of foie gras, given your animal rights stance? And the wearing of fur and leather?


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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> As pointed out numerous times on these boards, even the rspca says (pdf) that 90% of halal slaughter involves pre-stunning. So presumably you would be happy and satisfied if this figure rose to 100%. End achieved and no need to bring anything else into it - right?


 
I don't know that, and yes you're right


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## john x (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> Perhaps standards do slip in traditional slaughterhouses, but that's not as an excuse to turn a blind eye to this.



If you are so concerned for animal rights what are your views on EDL supporters taking real pig's heads on their demos. Hardly very respectful of the animals which died, is it?

john x


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## Citizen66 (Jul 17, 2012)

john x said:


> If you are so concerned for animal rights what are your views on EDL supporters taking real pig's heads on their demos. Hardly very respectful of the animals which died, is it?
> 
> john x



Or the EDL member John 'Snowy' Shaw who let his animals (Llamas) starve to death.


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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> What are your views on the eating of foie gras, given your animal rights stance? And the wearing of fur and leather?


 

Foie gras is disgusting, no need.
Fur? Like endangered species fur? disgusting, no need.
Leather? As in by-product from humanely killed cattle? fine.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2012)




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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

john x said:


> If you are so concerned for animal rights what are your views on EDL supporters taking real pig's heads on their demos. Hardly very respectful of the animals which died, is it?
> 
> john x


 

No it's not, more importantly it shows a lack of respect and deliberate antagonism for muslims who choose not to eat pork

I don't agree with the EDL's methods, they are an embarrassment. But I do think they highlight a lot of really important issues...


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## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> No it's not, more importantly it shows a lack of respect and deliberate antagonism for muslims who choose not to eat pork
> 
> I don't agree with the EDL's methods, they are an embarrassment. But I do think they highlight a lot of really important issues...


 
Like the peados and stuff?


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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Like the peados and stuff?


 
I don't think they mention peados in the mission statement do they? They seem more concerned by another incompatible law system running along side the existing one..


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## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> I don't think they mention peados in the mission statement do they? They seem more concerned at another incompatible law system running along side the existing one..


 
Beth Din?


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## Montgolfier (Jul 17, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Beth Din?


 
No, but that's a good point


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## Ranbay (Jul 17, 2012)

We should go on a march and tell them Jews we don't want Kosher Meat, and we don't want Beth Din courts in the our country yeah?

you up for it?


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## _angel_ (Jul 17, 2012)

you-tube links and facebook screen-grabs


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## frogwoman (Jul 17, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> you-tube links and facebook screen-grabs


 
THEY SHALL NOT PASS

the errors in the facebook database


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## john x (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> I don't think they mention peados in the mission statement do they?



You do know, don't you that a number of senior EDL figures have been caught dismissing the mission statement as 'just for show'?

john x


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## keybored (Jul 17, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Don't fall for it. They're cherry picking the most distasteful parts of extreme Islam to further their goals. As if they're into animal rights and are radical feminists ffs.


Not to mention gay rights and the plight of Israel.


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## krink (Jul 17, 2012)

I think they're finished to be honest, they'll soon be like the NF - just the hardcore losers with absolutely nothing else in their lives but 'the cause'.


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 17, 2012)

krink said:


> I think they're finished to be honest, they'll soon be like the NF - just the hardcore losers with absolutely nothing else in their lives but 'the cause'.


 
Tbh I think it's already heading to that point, I logged into a facebook account a few days ago that I was using to follow some of the local ones that I haven't checked on in ages, and a pretty large proportion of them have seemingly given it up. All them EDL that had a semblence of sanity have long since fucked off, leaving only the hardcore cranks.


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## john x (Jul 17, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Tbh I think it's already heading to that point, I logged into a facebook account a few days ago that I was using to follow some of the local ones that I haven't checked on in ages, and a pretty large proportion of them have seemingly given it up. All them EDL that had a semblence of sanity have long since fucked off, leaving only the hardcore cranks.


 
It finished after Tower Hamlets last year.

Their marches have never been about 'issues' but about 'taking ground' in the football sense. 'Whose Streets? Are Streets!' and 'We'll march where we want!' were their battle cries. Tower Hamlets was all about taking the fight to the heartland of the enemy (Britain's Pakistani and Bangladeshi populations). Not only did they never set foot in the borough but those who got anywhere near were chased away by young Asian lads.

That day also saw Lennon drop the 'Muslim extremists' pretence and threatened the entire Muslim community of Britain.

Since then they have just become figures of fun.

john x


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 17, 2012)

john x said:


> It finished after Tower Hamlets last year.
> 
> Their marches have never been about 'issues' but about 'taking ground' in the football sense. 'Whose Streets? Are Streets!' and 'We'll march where we want!' were their battle cries. Tower Hamlets was all about taking the fight to the heartland of the enemy (Britain's Pakistani and Bangladeshi populations). Not only did they never set foot in the borough but those who got anywhere near were chased away by young Asian lads.
> 
> ...


 
I'd say before that even, Bradford in particular. Remember when they were calling it the big one? saying how they'll get tens of thousands there? They ended up being chased out of town i believe, and barely 2,000 of them turned up in the first place. That was a wake up call for a lot of 'em.


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 17, 2012)

I believe that that perennial question - "football or muggy bonehead" - is currently being answered by shuffling feet, stage right.


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## Das Uberdog (Jul 17, 2012)

all of the above notwithstanding, will be interesting to see how the James Larkin march goes in Liverpool this Saturday. NWI, CxF + all the rest are gearing up for a repeat of their 'victory' from the Irish Republican march in February, though this time it seems that 'Friends of Ireland' are determined not to back down on the march route like then.


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## john x (Jul 17, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> all of the above notwithstanding, will be interesting to see how the James Larkin march goes in Liverpool this Saturday. NWI, CxF + all the rest are gearing up for a repeat of their 'victory' from the Irish Republican march in February, though this time it seems that 'Friends of Ireland' are determined not to back down on the march route like then.


 
The far-right will be greatly outnumbered (as they were the last time) so unless the police go in heavy against the trades union march or try to use a banning order, they have no chance. They also claim to have 'relatives of IRA victims' marching with them which I seriously doubt after they disrespected Tim Parry and Jonathan Ball by using their names and images on one of their shitty posters!

john x


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## Corax (Jul 17, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i know several people who make that mistake.
> 
> attack their fucking politics. They're FASH. Attack them for that. Otherwise you might as well laugh at a fash for being ginger, or for having a hairy bum, well whats the fcking point of that when there are other things you can attack them for - like BEING FASH


Depends who you're talking to IMO.

I know some people who aren't really interested in politics either way, but some of the EDL's rhetoric has made them sympathise a bit. I can point out the flaws in what they claim, and do, but sometimes this doesn't have a huge effect on its own - as like I said, they have very little interest in politics, and don't have the knowledge to know if I'm telling them the truth or if the fash are. It's just two opposing and contradictory statements from their PoV.

But if I take the piss out of them a bit as well, then I can get them laughing along with me - laughing _at_ the EDL. If you can get someone genuinely laughing at a particular group, then that's going to make them less likely to identify with that group. People don't like to identify with an object of ridicule.

You can then start working on the real stuff with them.

Only works/appropriate with a certain kind of 'floating voter', but ridicule can be an effective tool if used right IMO.

ETA: In the context of the running discussion though, I agree that ridiculing their literacy is more likely to just make people think you a bit of a cunt.


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## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 17, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> all of the above notwithstanding, will be interesting to see how the James Larkin march goes in Liverpool this Saturday. NWI, CxF + all the rest are gearing up for a repeat of their 'victory' from the Irish Republican march in February, though this time it seems that 'Friends of Ireland' are determined not to back down on the march route like then.


 
Interesting article in The Irish Times today, about the march and proposed counter by the fash;

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/gen...07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/


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## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 17, 2012)

In your example it's fine, even useful corax.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said of cuntboy grithiths


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## butchersapron (Jul 17, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Interesting article in The Irish Times today, about the march and proposed counter by the fash;
> 
> http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/gen...07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/


By a poster from here as well.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 17, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> yep. he hates people.
> 
> shit my mum fucking makes some of the same spelling mistakes that you laugh at and you associate with the edl. not everyone is great at spelling and i've seen a few typos in your posts myself. nobody fucking knows what a madrigal is either, i'm petty bourgeois and i don't fucking know what it is either.


 
Your mum is totally a fascist, froggie!!! I hope you "no platform" her!!!


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 17, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Interesting article in The Irish Times today, about the march and proposed counter by the fash;
> 
> http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/gen...07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/


 
I find it a bit of a stretch to say "scratch beneath the surface of English society anti-Irish prejudice still lurks" because of the NWI


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 17, 2012)

Montgolfier said:


> Distasteful? Yes. Extreme Islam? Really? Pretty sure most muslim boys have their genitals cut for Allah. Also watch (if you have a strong stomach) halal meat production videos on youtube. Every muslim eats halal, it's mainstream.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HQOKQ__3vQw
> 
> ...


 
We Jews have our genitals cut for Yahweh. It's a cultural rite inherent to Judaism and Islam that's a hangover from the days when it actually made sense, in terms of personal hygiene and the climate where both religions originated, to carry out. It's unsavoury insofar as the person being circumcised doesn't get a choice about being mutilated, but it's a practice that pre-existed either faith, so neither can be "blamed" for it.
With Female Genital Mutilation, there's not even any religious injunction to that, like their is for circumcision, just cultural practices from a fairly small number of states who were chopping off womens' clits before Mohammed's grandfather was a twinkle in his great-grandfather's eye.

As for Halal and Kosher slaughter, , it's no different (except for the muttering of the beardies) to what everybody did before the age of large-scale "meat production", or even (if you were a country butcher) what some people were still doing prior to BSE (which caused a lot of expensive, bureaucratic and minimally necessary changes to food standards laws). In fact there's an argument to be made that slaughter standards _per se_ would be better if it hadn't have been for the bureaucratic push that led to most small abattoirs closing down.


----------



## Dan U (Jul 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> By a poster from here as well.



Is he? I follow him on twitter. Shocking yellow coat Brian 

He has mentioned here actually iirc, didn't realise he posted


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 17, 2012)

Yes, that is a very poor jacket.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 17, 2012)

More here.


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## Corax (Jul 17, 2012)

Dan U said:


> Is he? I follow him on twitter. Shocking yellow coat Brian
> 
> He has mentioned here actually iirc, didn't realise he posted


Meth Lab didn't want it known so widely.  People should have respected his privacy better IMO.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 17, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Interesting article in The Irish Times today, about the march and proposed counter by the fash;
> 
> http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/gen...07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/


 
Thought the article was pretty good and perhaps it will even get people who are otherwise not bothered to get up and go on the march.
As for the shit sprouted in that NWI poster shown in the article, "take take take, etc...", it's enough to make your blood boil.
If the scum have any sense they will stay well away on saturday as what they are saying is pure provocation and won't make them very popular on the day, and that's putting it politely, the cunts.


----------



## john x (Jul 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I find it a bit of a stretch to say "scratch beneath the surface of English society anti-Irish prejudice still lurks" because of the NWI


Yes, the article does overplay the NWI somewhat.

While the threat of violence should never be ignored, these demos are mainly the work of NF mayoral candidate Peter Tierney and, sacked from the army for burgling houses, Paul Cxf Walsh and a few of his toy soldiers. They are backed up by NWI's John 'Snowy' Shaw and that little creep Shane Calvert (Diddyman) and his loyalist mates in the Scottish Defence League. Joining them are a handful of social misfits and ex-NF and BNP associates who are just happy to be with others of the same mind, who they can giggle and exchange racist jokes with and not be always looking over their shoulders.

Politically it is hard to see them posing any kind of threat as they are virtually incapable of tying their own shoes. They also have no critical analysis of anything they do. They did a rooftop protest somewhere in the NW and Paul Walsh claimed that they had negotiated a live TV interview with the BBC and ITV in return for coming down. Then it was one live radio interview, then a recorded interview and in the end it was nothing. They still claim this 'interview' as 'are voices are gettin herd' and no amount of telling them that no interview was ever broadcast will change their minds. On top of all that Walsh was arrested as soon as he came down from the roof. These people will never interface orally with the media as they are genuinely incapable of talking in coherent sentences. 'Fookin' peedoes raping are white children' is about the extent of it.

So let's not worry too much about them. They are a joke. Let them stand on town hall roofs in the cold with their union flags upside down. While they claim embarrassing defeats as great victories they are going nowhere.

john x


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 18, 2012)

john x said:


> So let's not worry too much about them. They are a joke. Let them stand on town hall roofs in the cold with their union flags upside down. While they claim embarrassing defeats as great victories they are going nowhere.
> 
> john x


 
The thing is, for them, the last time round in Liverpool where they got a march stopped, was seen by them as a victory, therefore, they will be looking to milk that and therefore active security will be necessary for saturday because they are more likely to be lurking in a carpark trying to damage mini vans or pick off stragglers than standing on a roof.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 18, 2012)

Ok. Sorry for my part in the merry go round on patriot literacy levels.

FW - You have constantly skated over points I have made in my defence against your specific allegations, but life's too short for both of us.

Butchers, likewise and your claim that I "hate people" is more crystal ball sillyness. Your ever present grouchiness makes me wonder if it is projection.

Be that as it may, life is again too short. I respect you both, broadly agree with you and so onwards...

Some trend observations regarding EDL and far right, no special order.

Someone elsewhere thought the big drop in numbers was down to lack of politics (backing up something I said earlier that wasn't part of the merry go round )

Certainly something has changed a great deal in the last 12+ months, I cite the turning point as the Blackburn demo - not just the Infidel split but Lennon's behaviour - headbutting a guy more or less mid speech is bizarre enough, but the wrong guy?

If you can be arsed to look through that demo again on Youtube you can see that it is mayhem and he lost the crowd. "English Defence League, English Defence League"- he tries to pull them back in line, but can't.

Down recent months I have spotted an increasing trend for muslim haters to specify, often off the bat, that they are NOT EDL. I used to call them "Gethsemane Division", thinking they were being distractionary, but really wonder now...

In fact, I think the brand has become toxic even to those who one might expect to be their natural supporters. The vapid hate has not gone away. There are a plethora of sites, blogs, pages that blurt out the same stuff. But it no longer to coalesces around the EDL.

Note that March For England, broader and older, got much bigger turnout than most EDL recently, even if it was an "Arse On Plate" special thanks to the good folk of Brighton.

Briefly on politics: Someone cited the Mission Statement earlier, it and issues were dealt with appropriate deftness from Butchers, FW and others. As an AR person I find the Halal froth to be especially vapid. People who don't like halal killing should certainly be veg, probably vegan because plenty of comparable mistreatment goes on in life and death for the animals concerned.

The first line proper of the Mission Statement proclaims the EDL are a "human rights organisation". This is, of course, as valid as the "largest protest movement in the world" claim. They often struggle to be the largest protest movement at their own protests.

The BFP claim they will repeal the HR act. Are they going to replace it with something more liberal to please the Amnesty like liberalness of their EDL colleagues? The promise to end benefits for migrants seems to suggest not.

All the usual stuff: The peado whinge, the hypocritical moans on social conservatism, the paranoia, the decontextualising of Koran elements: It's all blown away like feathers, repeatedly. It's pretty dull really and I admire the thankless patience of those who continue to address it (I sometimes do)

On paedos though: Ask an EDLer if they want to live in a country that will execute muslim paedophiles. If they say yes, tell them to move to Iran.

On human rights: Lennon said on one Newsnight that "only muslims have human rights in this country". That is the level we are talking about here, from their leader. It's a new low in the standard of political discourse and I wonder at the point in bothering.

Frogwoman and many others may have lots of pertinent things to say about fascism and populist bigotry etc. but none of it washes with the vast majority of EDLers or similar. They don't give a shit. They want to hate.

Some more "intellectual" ones will hide behind terms like "cultural nationalism" and "counter jihad" but when they go on demos with the NF (Newcastle) or the EDL invite the BNP along (Bristol) it all goes out the water again.

The political analysis is only useful for more neutral people (rather than the converted or the committed haters). Generally it works in fact.

The demonstrated fact that muslims are prouder citizens of the UK than non muslims I think feeds through to attitudes towards them regardless of hate bilge in the press.

"live and let live" remains a dominant attitude.

So where next for far right in this country? elements differ from the European models (east and west)

The BNP are not dead in the water, but 2014 could see them that way and they are certainly not very well.

ED have never really caught on. BFP are a rump, their marriage to EDL ought to be something they now regret, at least in private.

Infidel, NF et al are pretty tiny and mad.

The far right, though having some potential decent support is fractured and discredited.

So where does that support go? It's pretty obvious:

An increasing amount put faith, perhaps begrudgingly, in UKIP. Any ambitious racist would do just that, infiltrate essentially and influence from within.

UKIP may have money, seats and support but it doesn't have great local/regional structure, certainly not everywhere. It would actually be quite easy to drag it right. I suspect it lacks committed savvy anti fascists, though it is not wholly out the question, there would be very few.

I would never support UKIP of course, but there prime raison detre is respectable, it has a market/niche and serves a purpose. The fact that they are neoliberal fools who will trade one slavery for another is neither here nor there insofar as the likes of me would not persuade them toward a less cult like vision. 

UKIP are partly a product of the lefts failure to be as euroskeptic as it might be, they have often been drawn in by the idea that Europe is broadly to the left of the UK - even that is dubious really and certainly The Lisbon treaty and ECB ambition gives the lie to any hope for the EU being the centrist, subsidiartiy entity it once promised to be.

Labour tend to be pro EU, the small group of leftists who aint are drowned out. 
SNP and Plaid are, for obvious reasons (again risking the trade of one "slavery" for another, though I don't know how Leanne Wood stands on all this)

The Greens are shamefully soft on the EU as a whole, though their ideas for reform are not given full credence.

No2EU/TUSC & RESPECT yet need to build for a chance of any of their opinions being heard. 

Thus a credible anti EU voice only exists in UKIP and they are kicking at an open goal.
They are even less hypocritical on migration, for any party can try and sound tough but most migration is from the EU, so actually reducing it is something that can't be done without either leaving or major renegotiation (what Cameron hints at, but bollocks to him for now)

I suspect many in UKIP are of demographic and background that do not appreciate the risk of deliberate far right infiltration, and wouldn't know how to face it down if they did. I have tried raising this a few times on their pages, respectfully. I can't recall any response. 

If that risk manifests and they fail to deal with it, it might well be the thing to do for anti fascists to specifically start calling UKIP out - not the whole lot of them for racism - but the generality for not dealing with the far right drifters coming in from the cold. It could even be a legitimate prime focus. What's the point in slagging off a rabble of nutters on the fringes if the party with the 2nd highest Euro vote is being used to push that agenda with a far more respectable face?

We must focus on drumming out Brons and Griffin for sure, there will be debate aplenty about how that is done in coming months and years.

But for now there is no cogent directioned force to speak of on the far right in my estimation, this is in contrast to the potential. I don't see a new party/organisation in the near future - the collapse of the EDL (and partly BNP) have not been fully digested.

Keep eyes on UKIP then, who are highly vulnerable to critique on this issue.

Thoughts appreciated. This was all a bit OTTOTH and not edited, so apologies if it is garbled. But I wanted to help move things on given my part in sometimes holding things back.


----------



## john x (Jul 18, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> and therefore active security will be necessary for saturday



Of course it will. 

These people have threatened violence! In fact it may be a good thing if they got a really good kicking on Saturday to nip it in the bud!

john x


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## Citizen66 (Jul 18, 2012)

Tl;dr. Learn to summarise, taffboy.


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## Ranbay (Jul 18, 2012)




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## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2012)

john x said:


> It finished after Tower Hamlets last year.
> 
> Their marches have never been about 'issues' but about 'taking ground' in the football sense. 'Whose Streets? Are Streets!' and 'We'll march where we want!' were their battle cries. Tower Hamlets was all about taking the fight to the heartland of the enemy (Britain's Pakistani and Bangladeshi populations). Not only did they never set foot in the borough but those who got anywhere near were chased away by young Asian lads.
> 
> ...


 
you're right about the soccer thing. we highlighted this ages ago with their 'taking liberties' mentality - which is useless as far as politics is concerned. they have an extremely weak grasp of politcal opposition, have no idea about islam and use anti-halal/womens and gay rights as an excuse for 'paki bashing.' their leaders have embarassed them time and again - its tabloid TV time for tommy. the pic of tommy off his head is going to bite his arse as deputy leader of the fluffis. massive blunder pr wise.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 18, 2012)

British Freedom is going nowhere anyway, they are run by nutters.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2012)

john x said:


> Yes, the article does overplay the NWI somewhat.
> 
> While the threat of violence should never be ignored, these demos are mainly the work of NF mayoral candidate Peter Tierney and, sacked from the army for burgling houses, Paul Cxf Walsh and a few of his toy soldiers. They are backed up by NWI's John 'Snowy' Shaw and that little creep Shane Calvert (Diddyman) and his loyalist mates in the Scottish Defence League. Joining them are a handful of social misfits and ex-NF and BNP associates who are just happy to be with others of the same mind, who they can giggle and exchange racist jokes with and not be always looking over their shoulders.
> 
> ...


 
yeah the infidels are tiny. it is snowy and a few soccer lads who arent in prison yet - which has depleted their ranks (mr B, the loser from balckburn). tierney is desperate and doing more harm than good for the NF. cxf are a joke. they're just deluded fuck bugles and phoneys. SDL are bnp/nf types and tiny. 20 at most. they may turn up in the pool but plod was embarassed last time as they failed to do their job - ie, didnt get the march through. the fash are desperate for a victory after the massive embarassment of 250 at bristol 'national' demo and tommy missing the 2nd in a row. the fash may cause a wee bit of bother on the streets but politically they are nothing. on indymedia there is a wee bit of disquiet and they are inflating the ira panic balloons but all antifascists need to be there as a show of strength.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> The thing is, for them, the last time round in Liverpool where they got a march stopped, was seen by them as a victory, therefore, they will be looking to milk that and therefore active security will be necessary for saturday because they are more likely to be lurking in a carpark trying to damage mini vans or pick off stragglers than standing on a roof.


 
oiks, it wasnt them who stopped it, it was plod who redirected, it not them!


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## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> British Freedom is going nowhere anyway, they are run by nutters.


 
yeah as taff says the british fluffies will now be regretting it:  'here is a picture of our deputy leader out of his head on whatever and having to have a lie down thus missing yet another national rally.' they only ever had tiny support anyway and the expected influx of EDL did not materialise. politically the far right in UK are nowhere. however, antifascists need to show numbers when they threaten. liverpool is gonna be hard on them if only from plod with whom they have not arranged a formal counter-demo thus giving plod carte blanche to nick anyone getting mouthy or aggressive. the fash will also be massively outnumbered. best thing: march is well stewarded and militants tag along outside.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2012)

from VNN fash site:
'Together we will overwhelm the police and the IRA and Antifascist gimps, trade union traitors, and any local nignogs who latch on to the march from the slums in which they dwell.' and 'The Infidels of Britain and the BPP are mobilising against this IRA front march.'


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## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 18, 2012)

Saw this morning lots of posters from march organisers in Hope Street and Toxteth areas of Liverpool - so hopefully added support from locals.


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## Red Storm (Jul 18, 2012)

Apparently the Salford Unemployed Centre has been getting a lot of phone calls over Alec McFadden speaking at the anti-racism march.


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## albionism (Jul 18, 2012)

Anyone got a link to the photo you are talking about?


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## john x (Jul 18, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> British Freedom is going nowhere anyway,


 
Good to see that you have read the memo Bob! 

And Malatesta is right about regrets in the British Freedom Party about this deal. When the idea first came up, the EDL were on a roll but by the time the deal was done, the EDL were on their arse and everyone apart from Tommy Robinson and the BFP could see it. I heard that when the announcement was made and BFP membership was offered at a reduced rate of £15 per year, only 17 people took them up on their offer . And even that dried up when the price went back up. As some wag pointed out, "You can join the NF for £15 and that's without any reduction!" 

So no huge influx of new members for the BFP but worse, last year's Demos survey showed that the BNP was the largest supported party among EDL supporters and they certainly made their voices heard when it was suggested that they would be expected to help out BFP candidates at election times, even if they then went on to vote BNP.

So the BFP have got no big membership boost and are lumbered with a PR disaster area in the (badly out of) shape of Tommy Yaxley Robinson Lennon!

A bunch of clueless idiots, the lot of them.

john x


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## Ranbay (Jul 18, 2012)

Mr Woods of the BFP would have you think they have 1000's of members... but he's a fucking dreamer...


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## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2012)

the EDL went a bit nuts at the anouncement as many are quite happy to vote bnp.most had never even heard of the BF and were annoyed about being drafted in as footsoldiers without any discussion or consulation. the price of dictatorship eh? all round a total blunder. edl lost members over it.
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/its-the-edl-british-fluffies-love-in/
shame!


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## john x (Jul 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> heard of the BF



You've read the memo too! 

john x


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## Gingerman (Jul 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from VNN fash site:
> 'Together we will overwhelm the police and the IRA and Antifascist gimps, trade union traitors, and any local nignogs who latch on to the march from the slums in which they dwell.' and 'The Infidels of Britain and the BPP are mobilising against this IRA front march.'


 Bunch of ignorant fuckwits ,Liverpool is probably the most 'Irish' of UK cities so lets hope the James Larkin march gets a good turnout.


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## framed (Jul 18, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Apparently the Salford Unemployed Centre has been getting a lot of phone calls over Alec McFadden speaking at the anti-racism march.


 
No doubt Alec will write that up for Searchlight...

He's been a regularly featured 'victim' in Searchlight for years; first on Tyneside, now on Merseyside and Thameside. If I'd taken as many beatings off the fash as Alec McFadden allegedly has over the years, I think the penny would've dropped by now that the Searchlight _'highlight the victims of fascism'_ and _'expose the naaarzeeees'_ strategy was not working.


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## john x (Jul 18, 2012)

These people are complete lunatics!


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## DrRingDing (Jul 18, 2012)

"Scouse Nationalists"


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## The39thStep (Jul 18, 2012)

Gingerman said:


> Bunch of ignorant fuckwits ,Liverpool is probably the most 'Irish' of UK cities so lets hope the James Larkin march gets a good turnout.


 
what would make you claim that Liverpool I the most Irish of cities or that if it was that there would be any connection with the James Larkin march?


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## Gingerman (Jul 18, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> "Scouse Nationalists"


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## Gingerman (Jul 18, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> what would make you claim that Liverpool I the most Irish of cities or that if it was that there would be any connection with the James Larkin march?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2011/dec/01/liverpool-ireland
http://www.merseyreporter.com/history/historic/irish-immigration.shtml
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...etween-liverpool-and-ireland-100252-28329638/


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## framed (Jul 18, 2012)

Not so much lunatics as following the well worn path of militant loyalism, which regards all Catholics and Irish nationalists as 'legitimate targets' and IRA associates by default. In my experience this is par for the course with the fash. They're simply applying the same logic to the left.



john x said:


> These people are complete lunatics!
> 
> View attachment 21238


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## bignose1 (Jul 19, 2012)

framed said:


> No doubt Alec will write that up for Searchlight...
> 
> He's been a regularly featured 'victim' in Searchlight for years; first on Tyneside, now on Merseyside and Thameside. If I'd taken as many beatings off the fash as Alec McFadden allegedly has over the years, I think the penny would've dropped by now that the Searchlight _'highlight the victims of fascism'_ and _'expose the naaarzeeees'_ strategy was not working.


Ive no time gor McFadden...you may have read why in other posts on here...


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## john x (Jul 19, 2012)

I see Snowy has raised his head after going into hiding after being convicted of letting his animals die of starvation.



john x


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## bignose1 (Jul 19, 2012)

framed said:


> No doubt Alec will write that up for Searchlight...
> 
> He's been a regularly featured 'victim' in Searchlight for years; first on Tyneside, now on Merseyside and Thameside. If I'd taken as many beatings off the fash as Alec McFadden allegedly has over the years, I think the penny would've dropped by now that the Searchlight _'highlight the victims of fascism'_ and _'expose the naaarzeeees'_ strategy was not working.


 Thats pretty much an ad verbatim/cut & paste from Redwatch


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## framed (Jul 19, 2012)

Is it? I wouldn't know. It certainly is not a cut and paste job from anywhere. It's based on the truth that McFadden is a long time associate of Searchlight, a pro-state magazine that I do not support and which I believe is counter-productive to the cause of anti-fascism.

Considering how long you claim to have had no involvement with them (18 years at the last count) you can always be depended upon to defend your old colleagues from Searchlight. Funny that innit?

Are you accusing me of being involved with Redwatch?

That's a big smear and pretty low even by your standards.

As for reading about McFadden on your other posts on here, sorry I'll pass on that one, I haven't read them and I don't intend to. Your posts on here are usually highly personalised and hysterical Steve, I skip them.


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 19, 2012)

Why the use of quotation marks around the word "victim" framed? Are you suggesting that the attack on McFadden was faked or something? or unrelated to anti-fascism? Staged by searchlight perhaps?


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## framed (Jul 19, 2012)

No, I used it more to illustrate how Searchlight apply 'victim' status as some kind of badge of honour to their associates. McFadden is Searchlight and his 'victim' status has earned him some kudos in liberal anti-racist circles. My old man used to say, _'Never fear the guy with the scars, because he took second prize'_. McFadden's taken a lot of second prizes at the hands of the fash, he'd be the last person that I'd consider to lead me into action against them. Nothing was implied about his honesty, despite the fact that he is closely associated with a magazine that has never exactly been 'straight' when it comes to the cause of anti-fascism.

'Framed'


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 19, 2012)

btw I wasn't trying to have a go or owt, I thought you just might know something that I didn't regarding McFadden.


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## framed (Jul 19, 2012)

No offence taken mate. Thanks for pointing out the ambiguity in my use of quotation marks, it's a bad habit of mine more than anything else... too many years writing for 'fanzines' where grammatical rules and  proper use of English rarely apply.


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## bignose1 (Jul 19, 2012)

framed said:


> Is it? I wouldn't know. It certainly is not a cut and paste job from anywhere. It's based on the truth that McFadden is a long time associate of Searchlight, a pro-state magazine that I do not support and which I believe is counter-productive to the cause of anti-fascism.
> 
> Considering how long you claim to have had no involvement with them (18 years at the last count) you can always be depended upon to defend your old colleagues from Searchlight. Funny that innit?
> 
> ...


 Im not defending them at all on this its just your hysterical knee jerk salivating dog reaction eveytime you hear Searchlight...wuff..growl..gnash Boring. You know damn well Im not saying your involved in Redwatch ffs. But you are partial to more than the odd smear yourself. Infact your whole operation depends on that type of stuff. I couldnt give a shit if you dont read my other posts. And as regards your last few lines how the fuck can you attack me for personalising/ hysterics. Thats been yours/Demus/O'sheas MO since I can remember !!!You stick with your gang/crew. I for one think your lazy by what you contribute. Everything you write seems to slag someone/thing off. Your the last person I need to justify myself to. And this hard man image...do me a fucking favour.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2012)

john x said:


> These people are complete lunatics!
> 
> View attachment 21238


the organisers should have made more of it being a 'ra march if that's the case


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## krink (Jul 19, 2012)

Listen lads, is there any way you could both just not do this again on here. It's just wank material for the fash lurkers. Everyone here knows the dispute so, haway man, just leave it.

I'm not taking sides, just won't someone think of the children


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## framed (Jul 19, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Im not defending them at all on this its just your hysterical knee jerk salivating dog reaction eveytime you hear Searchlight...wuff..growl..gnash Boring. You know damn well Im not saying your involved in Redwatch ffs. But you are partial to more than the odd smear yourself. Infact your whole operation depends on that type of stuff. I couldnt give a shit if you dont read my other posts. And as regards your last few lines how the fuck can you attack me for personalising/ hysterics. Thats been yours/Demus/O'sheas MO since I can remember !!!You stick with your gang/crew. I for one think your lazy by what you contribute. Everything you write seems to slag someone/thing off. Your the last person I need to justify myself to. And this hard man image...do me a fucking favour.


 

Steve, the above merely proves the point that I made at the end of my last post about hystrionics and the personalisation of the political.

The first time you quoted my post and said that you had your own problems regarding McFadden, I don't know what those are and I suspect that they are probably not relevant to this thread. In a second reply you quoted exactly the same post from me and implied that it had been cut and pasted from Redwatch.

You obviously have issues, let's park this one here, eh?

It's not relevant to the thread and I doubt it does any good for your anger management.


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## bignose1 (Jul 19, 2012)

framed said:


> Steve, the above merely proves the point that I made at the end of my last post about hystrionics and the personalisation of the political.
> 
> The first time you quoted my post and said that you had your own problems regarding McFadden, I don't know what those are and I suspect that they are probably not relevant to this thread. In a second reply you quoted exactly the same post from me and implied that it had been cut and pasted from Redwatch.
> 
> ...


 Listen Stevie, I didnt. You are deliberately reading between the lines. The sense of what you posted was similar to Redwatch's critique, look for yourself and it'll save you potential future embarrasment. What I said about Mcfadden has some relevance in that its pertinent to a person masquerading around who I deem unfit for purpose. I obviously have issues...yes I do with the continuous personal bullshit I have to listen to. When you began your first post in this recent silliness, you had a go at me straight away Searchlight...'at the last count' blah blah. Its pathetic. Your persisent sniping ..its like an obsession...doesnt do you any favours and puts you at short odds in the histrionic stakes. Anger management...dont think so..fed up with this boring old shite...more likely.

ps Re personal shite...let me refer you once again to the RA website circa 2003/4/5. Nuff said.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2012)

anger management all round


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## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2012)

Wank it out chaps.


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## framed (Jul 19, 2012)

Excuse me 'chaps', I made political points on this thread, take a look at how it has now been hijacked.

I mentioned Searchlight in relation to McFadden and you bit on it Steve. I'm not going to get into another one of these _'who said what to whom, when and where in nineteen canteen'_ that you seem to thrive on. It's a pointless diversion from any meaningful political discussion.

I have to deal with attention seeking behaviour from my kids every day of the week, I hadn't expected to have to put my parenting skills to work on this forum.

Let's be very clear here Steve, because your perception appears to be a warped one that is consumed with your hatred of Red Action. I'm not angry at you, I have no personal axe to grind with you, and I wish you no harm.

Parked.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 19, 2012)

let's just be like mr dave and chillax! (note proletarian beer glass - half full and not half empty!)


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> let's just be like mr dave and chillax! (note proletarian beer glass - half full and not half empty!)


a leading uaf member


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## Wotsits (Jul 20, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Oh ricky boy, what went wrong?


 
Where do you find these status messages, I hope these people are not on your friends list?


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## Citizen66 (Jul 20, 2012)

Wotsits said:


> Where do you find these status messages, I hope these people are not on your friends list?


 
Perhaps he can tell you his facebook name so you can delete him from yours?


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## Wotsits (Jul 20, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Perhaps he can tell you his facebook name so you can delete him from yours?


 
Huh? He's not on my facebook...  I give up.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 20, 2012)

Wotsits said:


> Huh? He's not on my facebook...  I give up.


 
New posters attracted straight to this thread have tended to be of the fash bent of late, so pardon the paranoia.


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## butchersapron (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm not on facebook either.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 20, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> New posters attracted straight to this thread have tended to be of the fash bent of late, so pardon the paranoia.


Actually it's the same one again.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 20, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Actually it's the same one again.


 
Exactly.


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## butchersapron (Jul 20, 2012)

I feel ashamed enough after posting some facebook stuff, can we swiftly move on?


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## Citizen66 (Jul 20, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I feel ashamed enough after posting some facebook stuff, can we swiftly move on?


 


Actually, it was in my head that Bob2009 posted it...


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## Ranbay (Jul 20, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Actually, it was in my head that Bob2009 posted it...


----------



## audiotech (Jul 20, 2012)

"The cat is free."



Some daft comments made and a stupid placard in this, but nonetheless, interesting video, with some salient points implied and others explicitly expressed.


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## Ranbay (Jul 20, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/a9st6l


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## john x (Jul 21, 2012)




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## manny-p (Jul 21, 2012)

.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 21, 2012)

can anyone post updates on here for todays jamboree?


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## malatesta32 (Jul 21, 2012)

todays hero in liverpool!


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## Red Storm (Jul 21, 2012)

Whats the score with the Liverpool march?


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## intersol32 (Jul 21, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Whats the score with the Liverpool march?


 
Nothing on the LiverAF twitter (which is unusual). Anyone got any updates?


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 21, 2012)

Not really anything on Shirtfront thread today except this vague post at 10:34 this morning:


> the IRA march has just been stopped from entering the city centre for the second time in 6 months, end of.


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## Red Storm (Jul 21, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Not really anything on Shirtfront thread today except this vague post at 10:34 this morning:


 
From Liam Pinkham too.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 21, 2012)

Hope Not Hate write-up of Liverpool today

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/2061/fascists-kept-at-bay-in-liverpool


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## framed (Jul 21, 2012)

BBC North West reported 26 arrests and that a large police presence had kept the two sides apart. That has been followed by the predictable claims of 'victory' from liberal anti-racism as represented by Hope Not Hate.

3 days ago, on another forum, I wrote the following:




> I predict that Liverpool will be in police lockdown on Saturday and, as a result, the march will pass largely without incident, give or take a few minor skirmishes and catcalls from the fash on the sidelines. The organisers will claim victory and that their political approach has been vindicated.





> The only thing they'll forget to do is to thank the police for making it all possible.​
> The only way that events on Saturday can take a different turn is if the police allow it to happen and that will be because the police are pursuing a political agenda of their own. This is their show, not the organisers of the march and not the counter-protesters.


 
« _Last Edit:_ Jul 18, 2012, 10:07pm


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## harpo (Jul 21, 2012)

UAF has been out leafleting Walthamstow lately in advance of the EDL becoming our uninvited guests on 18 Aug. 

Any Urbs planning to go?


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 21, 2012)

Interesting to hear that the HNH tactics includes "beating off fascists"


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## Termite Man (Jul 21, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Interesting to hear that the HNH tactics includes "beating off fascists"


who would pay the dry cleaning bill?


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## framed (Jul 21, 2012)

I thought the most telling paragraph of the H NH report was this one:

_"Between 80-100 well known fascists, include the self-styled "paramilitaries" of the CxF began hunting around town early on looking for people to attack, *but the march went ahead with a large police, Trade Union and antifascist presence."*_

"...the large police, trade union and anti*-*fascist presence" on the march must give new poignancy to the phrase, _'We're all in it together.'  _


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## malatesta32 (Jul 21, 2012)

liver AF report here:
https://liveraf.wordpress.com/2012/...fail-to-stop-anti-fascist-march-in-liverpool/


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 21, 2012)

hmmm .... dunno who this is but interesting re: poor stewarding, which was warned about ere earlier!
http://1solutionrevolution.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/saturday-21st-july-working-class-unity.html


----------



## audiotech (Jul 21, 2012)

EDL, 21st July, Chelmsford:


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 21, 2012)

Do all those coppers have different messages on the backs of their tabards? Is there a whole set to collect?

"I'll swap my LMFAO for your KTHXBAI"


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 21, 2012)

Rangers/loyalism and Tottenham/Jews: what's the link between the two?

Seemed to be a good turnout for the counter protestors


----------



## audiotech (Jul 21, 2012)

Ultra right-wing nationalism.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 21, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Ultra right-wing nationalism.


 
So did the Tottenham fans used to have fraternal relations with Rangers?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 21, 2012)

Are you suggesting that the sweatyheads were discussing Uganda?


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 21, 2012)

Report from the march from a Liverpool SolFed member, which James Larkin RFB (32CSM) agrees with. 

Liverpool Anti-Fascists report from the march.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 21, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> So did the Tottenham fans used to have fraternal relations with Rangers?


 
Nope.


----------



## framed (Jul 21, 2012)

Aberdeen's ASC are Tottenham's friends north of the border.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 21, 2012)

James Larkin RFB report:



> The march went through today and finished at the point it was meant to.
> 
> The fash had a number of well known faces inj their ranks today, some from Glasgow. There appeared to be a number of right wings groups working together. The Orange Order also turned at the Globe in an attempt to disrupt the start of the march.
> 
> ...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 21, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yes they are suckers and have been very slow to realise they have been fleeced and achieved nothing. mr tommy has dine a disapearing act! they are being led down a path to nowhere, will get nowhere and are shrinking with every demo. even tommy cant be arsed these days. some of them really are thick as fuck and some of the sharper ones have been fooled. as for opportunities it is not unheard of for working class people with very little formal education to get one by using their own initiative and the 'i never had a chance' is often a disingenuous 'i never really bothered' as its easier to blame others for your own shortcomings.


 
Yeah, like them benefits scroungers too, they like to say "I never had a chance" - they should just get on their bikes and look for a job, right?

This is the level you're at. Could have been me you were saying that about 5 years ago. Cunt.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 21, 2012)

Jings!


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 21, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> hmmm .... dunno who this is but interesting re: poor stewarding, which was warned about ere earlier!
> http://1solutionrevolution.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/saturday-21st-july-working-class-unity.html


 
From a local Sol Fed member - fairly spot on. Too knackered to write my report from today - been racing around ;-) Will try and link up photos in a minute.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 21, 2012)

Here are my photos from earlier http://www.demotix.com/news/1347678...-marched-liverpool-despite-far-right-protests


----------



## john x (Jul 21, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> James Larkin RFB report:


 
All good apart from there were about 70 fash and 26 of them were arrested.

john x


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yeah, like them benefits scroungers too, they like to say "I never had a chance" - they should just get on their bikes and look for a job, right?
> 
> This is the level you're at. Could have been me you were saying that about 5 years ago. Cunt.


 
People all over the world through history, in financial circumstances ranging from as bad to even much worse, have improved their level of knowledge.

Ignorance is just as much an attitude as a level of knowledge. It is one that is somewhat celebrated in materialist culture. 

Capitalism  could be said to encourage it in that any knowledge not useful for capital isn't really that useful at all, and possibly dangerous. So if your niche interest will help get you a niche job, that's cool but otherwise the pleasure and activity related to it are likely to consume less material commodities and/or rack up less debt than if you were more unfulfilled from not carrying it or something similar out.

Note that the capitalists are charging as much as they can direct for Higher Ed. It is being presented as an expensive thing now, but that should only underline their disdain for it and not draw us into any trap of linking education / self improvement too much to class.

The populist right loves to scorn at educated "liberal/lefties" and the like. If the right celebrates and encourages ignorance let us not at least make too many excuses for it. 

Celebrating self improvement/education in the working class is core to many traditional views of socialism - I don't think they were/are arguing that there is an income/employment barrier to them.

There are obstacles of course, especially in childhood IMO. They are obvious and vastly worsened by the disgusting closure of libraries and Adult Ed due to our ignorant and criminal government, to assist their ongoing facilitation of the biggest heist in history. 

But it is still generally far easier to learn something than to make money, especially in this climate.

So it is really not in the same league as your "benefits scroungers" point and the "cunt" jibe is extra needless.

So while they are factors, it is far less poverty or class that dumbs society down than it is culture, specifically capitalist culture founded chiefly on materialism and sensationalism.

he amount of shit being poured on claimants at the moment is vile of course, and worsening, so I can see why you are angry. 

Malatesta was not at that level. I am on benefits now and am not offended by what he said.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yeah, like them benefits scroungers too, they like to say "I never had a chance" - they should just get on their bikes and look for a job, right?
> 
> This is the level you're at. Could have been me you were saying that about 5 years ago. Cunt.


 
i resent that. argue fine, abuse, out of order.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 22, 2012)

john x said:


> All good apart from there were about 70 fash and 26 of them were arrested.
> 
> john x


 
yeah, the echo saying 80 fash, 23 arrests. collins noted that arrests started after snowy arrived!!!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 22, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Here are my photos from earlier http://www.demotix.com/news/1347678...-marched-liverpool-despite-far-right-protests


grat photos!


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Ultra right-wing nationalism.


 
what Spurs/Jews is ultra right nationalism?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i resent that. argue fine, abuse, out of order.


 
No it's not - you should know better.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> People all over the world through history, in financial circumstances ranging from as bad to even much worse, have improved their level of knowledge.
> 
> Ignorance is just as much an attitude as a level of knowledge. It is one that is somewhat celebrated in materialist culture.
> 
> ...


 
It's probably something to do with my lazy prole ignorance but I can't even be arsed to read that.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

the simple fact is this: being uneduated does not make you fash. being stupid does not make you fash. not knowing about elizabethan madrigals or whatever the fuck does not make you fash.

why don't you attack them on their politics? otherwise you end up insulting and demoralising whole swathes of people who have not had the same opportunities as you have had, but may hate the fascist cunts as much as you do.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

Oh, to be blinded by middle class social prejudice.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

of course, being a conspiracy theorist i can well see why you wouldn't want much attention being drawn to various points within their beliefs.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Oh, to be blinded by middle class social prejudice.


 
yep.

i know lots of people like this who say this sort of shit without thinking.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Oh, to be blinded by middle class social prejudice.


 
being working class means you're a thick racist. didnt you get the memo? oh yes, you dont have memos where you work lol


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> People all over the world through history, in financial circumstances ranging from as bad to even much worse, have improved their level of knowledge.
> 
> Ignorance is just as much an attitude as a level of knowledge. It is one that is somewhat celebrated in materialist culture.
> 
> ...


You sound like david starkey.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 22, 2012)

framed said:


> Aberdeen's ASC are Tottenham's friends north of the border.


asc and spurs firm run togthether, but in the days of the '2 team wooly hats', there was more spurs / rangers than either or celtic or asc, prob partly due to arsenal / irish etc


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You sound like david starkey.



David Starkey rants about the vapid and vile nature of capitalism while claiming benefits and suggesting Mal isn't a cunt?

That would be a story.

Still, a snide swipe is easier than dealing with the points made, doesn't need to be founded in truth.

Perhaps you don't think the less economically fortunate are capable of learning stuff, and just need to make it clearer for us.

While Ireland was under brutal repression, and people on this island fed all sorts of elitist racist shit about them, people used to risk their very lives learning their own language and culture in the "hedge schools". 

Oh sorry, that can't be right. They were working class. It must be made up. It's as hard for them to be educated as it is to find work when there is none, and Mal is a cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2012)

Every post a hole.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's probably something to do with my lazy prole ignorance but I can't even be arsed to read that.



You do seem to think the working class is as prone to ignorance as to poverty and unemployment in a recession. Why is that?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Every post a hole.



 Is finding about things as hard as finding an appropriate job in a depression?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2012)

_even in the barmy english sumer theres no time too be lost in saving ourselves from the muslamic hoards!_​_yet evil lefties are all ways an obsticle_​_have you seen theese left wing places online say so called “racism” is bad and good english patriots like edl is racist and fashist?_​_some even have NERVE to laugh at EDL and mr lennon who is never wrong and therefour inflammable_​


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> the simple fact is this: being uneduated does not make you fash. being stupid does not make you fash. not knowing about elizabethan madrigals or whatever the fuck does not make you fash.
> 
> why don't you attack them on their politics? otherwise you end up insulting and demoralising whole swathes of people who have not had the same opportunities as you have had, but may hate the fascist cunts as much as you do.


 
Of course, my point to SN had nothing directly to do with fascism or the EDL at all, but of his placing ignorance among the working class ignorance in the same ballpark as working class joblessness/poverty. If he/we happened to be talking about racism and bigotry among people who are middle class (or at least might think it) I could spout off about that as well. 

But people have been so keen to see bigotry where there isn't any that they fall over themselves and essentially defend it with liberal contorsions that are as wrong as they are patronising.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2012)

You _do_ need to shut up now.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> _even in the barmy english sumer theres no time too be lost in saving ourselves from the muslamic hoards!_​_yet evil lefties are all ways an obsticle_​_have you seen theese left wing places online say so called “racism” is bad and good english patriots like edl is racist and fashist?_​_some even have NERVE to laugh at EDL and mr lennon who is never wrong and therefour inflammable_​



Is finding about things as hard as getting an appropriate job in a recession? Is that 2 or 3 times you've wantonly ignored the question? 

I make the first paragraph about 80+% correct spelling with a reasonable vocabulary as it happens. Perhaps your arithmetic and experience of teaching young people and adults in deprived areas differs from mine.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 22, 2012)

People see what they want to see it seems. When someone laughs at a stupid racist for being stupid it must mean that they never criticise / deconstruct the politics or the racism (even if they do, facts are beside the point)

It also means they are doing it on the basis of the stupid racist's economic status.

A pastiche using statistically reasonable-ish spelling and broad-ish vocab is an attack on spelling and vocabulary. 

Someone who knows how hard it is to find work in a depression and doesn't see a need to patronise and belittle his own class, well that's like David Starkey that is.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2012)

Has anyone ever mistaken you for Chris Morris?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Is finding about things as hard as getting an appropriate job in a recession? Is that 2 or 3 times you've *wantonly* ignored the question?
> 
> I make the first paragraph about 80+% correct spelling with a reasonable vocabulary as it happens. Perhaps your arithmetic and experience of teaching young people and adults in deprived areas differs from mine.


 
Just convert, get it over with.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> oh yes, you dont have memos where you work lol


 
Three years ago I met some academic fool in Sheffield who, when first meeting me, was 'normal' in her greetings and conversation, _until_ she discovered my occupation.  Then she started talking to me really  s-l-o-w-l-y.  To my bemusement and with me admittedly being quite offended, I humoured her thinking that it's _inconceivable_ an unskilled manual worker has the inclination or capacity for higher learning, even by those informal and dare I say healthy avenues which have historically been very much a part of the working class and socialism.  We're also up against shit like this.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Three years ago I met some academic fool in Sheffield who, when first meeting me, was 'normal' in her greetings and conversation, _until_ she discovered my occupation. Then she started talking to me really s-l-o-w-l-y. To my bemusement and with me admittedly being quite offended, I humoured her thinking that it's _inconceivable_ an unskilled manual worker has the inclination or capacity for higher learning, even by those informal and dare I say healthy avenues which have historically been very much a part of the working class and socialism. We're also up against shit like this.


If you're female, blonde, young with big tits you get this regardless from men.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You do seem to think the working class is as prone to ignorance as to poverty and unemployment in a recession. Why is that?


 
You're an idiot. I was taking the piss out of your barely concealed class prejudice. I don't think it's controversial, outside your daft liberal circles, to point out that reduced educational opportunities have consequences.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> No it's not - you should know better.


were you captain of the debating team at the special school. hey i can do abuse over argument too!


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> were you captain of the debating team at the special school. hey i can do abuse over argument too!


This gets better.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Is finding about things as hard as getting an appropriate job in a recession? Is that 2 or 3 times you've wantonly ignored the question?
> 
> I make the first paragraph about 80+% correct spelling with a reasonable vocabulary as it happens. Perhaps your arithmetic and experience of teaching young people and adults in deprived areas differs from mine.


 
If a working class person is uneducated it's their own fault. This is your position, right? Just to be clear.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> were you captain of the debating team at the special school. hey i can do abuse over argument too!


 
Now he thinks suggesting I have special needs is acceptable as an insult. Brilliant.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> You're an idiot. I was taking the piss out of your barely concealed class prejudice. I don't think it's controversial, outside your daft liberal circles, to point out that reduced educational opportunities have consequences.


 
But which should not be a barrier to participating in progressive politics, on their/our terms.  Not the Madrigalists.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> If a working class person is uneducated it's their own fault. This is your position, right? Just to be clear.


Ill fitting suit territory.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> If you're female, blonde, young with big tits you get this regardless from men.


 
When the right opportunity has presented itself, though, I have on occasion relished humiliating, nay, destroying with words those middle class idiots who think in such a way.

I'm a petty man.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 22, 2012)

Me too - the best ones are where they claim to be all worldly and wise though. I had a snotty nosed public school type tell me I needed to get into the real world once during a conversation about benefits, with him claiming they were too generous and provided a disincentive to people "standing on their own two feet". When I pointed out that he'd never even had a job, let alone stood on his own two feet, and that I wondered what such a person had to say about the real world to someone who by his age had been crawling through industrial ovens for two years he went a bit red in the face. I lol'd, as did everyone else there.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Oh, to be blinded by middle class social prejudice.


 
I'd rather be blinded by the flames given out by a burning Palace of Westminster, if it's all the same.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

That, too.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> of course, being a conspiracy theorist i can well see why you wouldn't want much attention being drawn to various points within their beliefs.


 
Miaow!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> being working class means you're a thick racist. didnt you get the memo? oh yes, you dont have memos where you work lol


 
Ah, *that's* why the the local Trots were so puzzled back in the late '70s and early '80s when loads of us working class folk took anti-racism into our own hands and kicked the NF off of our estates! I always wondered about that!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You sound like david starkey.


 
Load of arse.





Taffboy is nowhere near as eloquent!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> _even in the barmy english sumer theres no time too be lost in saving ourselves from the muslamic hoards!_​_yet evil lefties are all ways an obsticle_​_have you seen theese left wing places online say so called “racism” is bad and good english patriots like edl is racist and fashist?_​_some even have NERVE to laugh at EDL and mr lennon who is never wrong and therefour inflammable_​


 
Please don't quote that. It was excrutiating enough to read the first time round.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Of course, my point to SN had nothing directly to do with fascism or the EDL at all, but of his placing ignorance among the working class ignorance in the same ballpark as working class joblessness/poverty. If he/we happened to be talking about racism and bigotry among people who are middle class (or at least might think it) I could spout off about that as well.
> 
> But people have been so keen to see bigotry where there isn't any that they fall over themselves and essentially defend it with liberal contorsions that are as wrong as they are patronising.


 
You're wrong, but you're so wrapped up in feeling victimised that you can't see how wrong you are. The contortions are mostly yours.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Of course, my point to SN had nothing directly to do with fascism or the EDL at all, but of his placing ignorance among the working class ignorance in the same ballpark as working class joblessness/poverty. If he/we happened to be talking about racism and bigotry among people who are middle class (or at least might think it) I could spout off about that as well.
> 
> But people have been so keen to see bigotry where there isn't any that they fall over themselves and essentially defend it with liberal contorsions that are as wrong as they are patronising.


 
my family is as PB as they come. They don't know anything about elizabethan madrigals and the are middle class, like going to theatres, seeing foreign films etc.

The issue that i am having is that this shit is irrelevant. It's completley fucking irrelevant. Somebody could not be able to read or write but still know the difference between right and wrong, still HATE racism etc. I've got mates who have serious problems with literacy etc but are still supportive of strikes, unions and that, hate racism etc.

Somebody could be completely illiterate but understand the nature of fascism etc, in fact in an actual fascist state, they'd be the first ones to fall victim to it. How is taking the piss out of spelling and writing challenging the fash in any way? this stuff is what they fucking thrive on. They are desperate to look for examples of how lefties are being elitist, etc, and the tragic thing is that those examples are not exactly hard to come by. Blogs like yours might be momentarily funny to a handful of people on group like expose and shit like that but they're not are they?

People like you with your barely disguised prejudces are a danger to anti-fascism. More than that a lot of people with such problems or who are close to people who do will take a look at your shit and not want to get involved with anti-fascism at all because they will think that's what it's about.

not to be alarmist but we are going to, imo, witness the rebirth of real fascism on a serious scale during the next few years and the near certainty of serious physical confrontation with the fash. we're in the midlde of the worst recession since the 30s, you honestly think that this sneering middle class crap is going to help? these people are going to both be their recruiting ground and, probably more often than that, their victims. you think the fash don't laugh at people with poor spelling etc as well or who are "uncultured"? you think the fash don't lament the fact that that type of people five them a "bad image" etc? you think theres none of them who love correctly spelt language and love the same shit you do?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> You're an idiot. I was taking the piss out of your barely concealed class prejudice. I don't think it's controversial, outside your daft liberal circles, to point out that reduced educational opportunities have consequences.


 
Effects on what social scientists call "life-chances" being foremost - shorter life expectancy, poorer health, wider exposure to adverse occupational and environmental factors. There's a long old list.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> When the right opportunity has presented itself, though, I have on occasion relished humiliating, nay, destroying with words those middle class idiots who think in such a way.
> 
> I'm a petty man.


 
Correcting misapprehensions is never petty, even if you laugh maliciously at the misapprehender once you've corrected them.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> If a working class person is uneducated it's their own fault. This is your position, right? Just to be clear.


 
that "position" is a crock of shit. i need to stop now before i get really wound up;


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> you think the fash don't laugh at people with poor spelling etc as well or who are "uncultured"? you think the fash don't lament the fact that that type of people five them a "bad image" etc? you think theres none of them who love correctly spelt language and love the same shit you do?


 
A fair few fascists will of course sneer at and disregard the EDL'ers.  See them as rabble.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Correcting misapprehensions is never petty, even if you laugh maliciously at the misapprehender once you've corrected them.


 
Yes, but I can be quite abusive at times.  If they deserve it.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

Of course they will and do. But hey, why challenge their shit when you can always laugh at the lumpen


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> that "position" is a crock of shit. i need to stop now before i get really wound up;


 
A prevalent one though.  I left school without a single GCSE.  It was a very disrupted home life, not an inherent lack of ability, that affected my performance at school.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> A prevalent one though. I left school without a single GCSE. It was a very disrupted home life, not an inherent lack of ability, that affected my performance at school.


 
I have really good mates who did too.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

So do I.  People who would see taffboy as just another middle class outsider, looking in on something he doesn't understand.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 22, 2012)

Reading that Owen Jones book, his frank astonishment at the reality of class prejudices being spouted by his liberal left crowd aside, has a nice turn of phrase 'socially acceptable liberal bigotry'.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> A prevalent one though. I left school without a single GCSE. It was a very disrupted home life, not an inherent lack of ability, that affected my performance at school.


You could get loads of em if you wanted to now, except the bastard government want to charge you for the privilege!
My Dad did all his A levels at night school but I'm guessing it was probably free in the 60s?


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Reading that Owen Jones book, his frank astonishment at the reality of class prejudices being spouted by his liberal left crowd aside, has a nice turn of phrase 'socially acceptable liberal bigotry'.


 
I haven't read that yet. I'm guessing it'll only say what a lot have known (even personally) for years.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Yes, but I can be quite abusive at times. If they deserve it.


 
Then, comrade, one should not think of it as "abuse", but as "firm rebuke".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> You could get loads of em if you wanted to now, except the bastard government want to charge you for the privilege!
> My Dad did all his A levels at night school but I'm guessing it was probably free in the 60s?


 
It used to be teaching free, but you had to pay an exam fee (because the FE college had to pay a fee to the exam board), AFAICR.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> You could get loads of em if you wanted to now, except the bastard government want to charge you for the privilege!
> My Dad did all his A levels at night school but I'm guessing it was probably free in the 60s?


 
I could still just about manage to do it at some point, even higher education. Others aren't so lucky, or are, understandably, too afraid.

They want us to be put off. It's not _for_ us. And they're scum.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I haven't read that yet. I'm guessing it'll only say what a lot have known (even personally) for years.


 
oh yes, nothing new there- but backed with clear prose, facts and figures, comparisons etc- its good that such a book will be being read by people who unthinkingly express class prejudice despite considering themselves left/progressive


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> A fair few fascists will of course sneer at and disregard the EDL'ers. See them as rabble.


 
True, but as occasionally-useful rabble. The far-right will always need a "rabble", much as they'd like to pretend otherwise.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I could still just about manage to do it at some point, even higher education. Others aren't so lucky, or are, understandably, too afraid.
> 
> They want us to be put off. It's not _for_ us. And they're scum.


It's not even *just* the working class they hate it's the lower middle as well (think tuition fee increases, cutting the police and whatever other bonkers shite they're dreaming up) Talk about shitting on your own voter base. It's bizarre and shows they totally don't get it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> A prevalent one though. I left school without a single GCSE. It was a very disrupted home life, not an inherent lack of ability, that affected my performance at school.


 
My school career resulted in a CSE grade 2 (or B, I can never remember which) in Maths, an O level grade A for English, an O level grade A for Human Biology, and a CSE grade 4 for geography. I could blame part of that on having moved in with foster parents at the beginning of the school year, but a lot of it was actually arsing about on my part. I knew I couldn't afford to go to college (the old "parental contribution" trap), and I was fucked off with the world.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I haven't read that yet. I'm guessing it'll only say what a lot have known (even personally) for years.


 
It's always equal parts refreshing and despair-making when someone from the middle-classes realises it, though.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

I see.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I could still just about manage to do it at some point, even higher education. Others aren't so lucky, or are, understandably, too afraid.
> 
> They want us to be put off. It's not _for_ us. And they're scum.


 
They also want to put us off because we prove something that they can't bear to admit - that money can't buy academic achievement, intelligence or the ability to do something well, but *effort* can. That's why state-schoolers consistently leave university with better results than their public school counterparts.  That doesn't sit well with the combination of sociobiological bullshit and market principles much of our ruling classes subscribe to.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

dubble post


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> oh yes, nothing new there- but backed with clear prose, facts and figures, comparisons etc- its good that such a book will be being read by people who unthinkingly express class prejudice despite considering themselves left/progressive


 
Culturally-based, anti-working class prejudice is very much a part of left-liberalism.  Unfortunately people also think they're left-wing, or at least 'progressive' socially, but are in actuality just ignorant little Thatcherite children.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's always equal parts refreshing and despair-making when someone from the middle-classes realises it, though.


 
thing is that the middle classes aren't that much removed from the working classes though, at least not most of the time. my parents are middle class but they still have working class friends, family members, etc.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

The worry is of course that when anti fascism gets associated with this sort of sneering bullshit ... well. Not so much that people are going to get turned into fash because most people aren't like that, but the fact that they are going to get turned _*against*_ organised anti-fascism and against progressive working class politics itself.

Together with the atomisation of soceity which has took place over the last 30 years it's a serious concern and seriously limits our ability to fight back. I hope taffboy is thinking of this. Doubt it though


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

Yep.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> It's not even *just* the working class they hate it's the lower middle as well (think tuition fee increases, cutting the police and whatever other bonkers shite they're dreaming up) Talk about shitting on your own voter base. It's bizarre and shows they totally don't get it.


 
You're right, they don't, and I suspect it's something (also reflected in Labour, but to a somewhat lesser extent) to do with the MPs being drawn from such a shallow set of social strata. If (as is the case) a majority of your MPs are either hereditary upper middle class or people who've bootstrapped themselves into the upper middle class, they're going to be more likely to see the world in terms of "people like me", at least until it's too late.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> thing is that the middle classes aren't that much removed from the working classes though, at least not most of the time. my parents are middle class but they still have working class friends, family members, etc.


 
Precarity is a factor too, although historically that's acted to turn the middle class *harder* against the w/c, rather than encouraging solidarity.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Precarity is a factor too, although historically that's acted to turn the middle class *harder* against the w/c, rather than encouraging solidarity.


 
Quite, with a phenomenon called fascism.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I see.


 
That's how I find it anyway. A sort of "hallelujah, one of 'em sees the light. Now if only the rest...".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Quite, with a phenomenon called fascism.


 
Yeah , but before then, too.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> That's how I find it anyway. A sort of "hallelujah, one of 'em sees the light. Now if only the rest...".


 
Need to read it myself, tbh.  Will get a copy soon.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Need to read it myself, tbh. Will get a copy soon.


 
Should be turning up in charity bookshops within the next couple of months, if the usual pattern is followed (remembers an ocean of copies of "The Shock Doctrine" swamping charity shops about 6 months after it came out).


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2012)

taffboy's ideal fascist:

"I'm here to express my grievances. I'm going on an extended political walk because I want Britain to benefit the British again. Good sir, they are attempting to supercede the law of the Crown with the practice of Shariah. They have guns which shoot rays, you might call them rayguns. It's taking place in our state, and indeed many polities have been affected, such as Iraq. You could say it was an Iraqi law"


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 22, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Culturally-based, anti-working class prejudice is very much a part of left-liberalism. Unfortunately people also think they're left-wing, or at least 'progressive' socially, but are in actuality just ignorant little Thatcherite children.


 
In my experience some of the ones who have gone a step further and consider themselves to be revolutionary are the worst. I remember once talking to a "published" Trotskyist about some politics or other until he asked me what university I had attended. When I replied I had never been, the expression on his face became all contorted. I think a few cogs and wheels in his brain began to go into overdrive and his attitude changed instantly. His discomfort became palpable. After that he seemed to eye me with suspicion.

I'll also mention that after I left school, with *NO* qualifications, (due to my attitude about everything at the time), I made the move to go to a technical college, which was free (early 80's).

As a working class lad the course seemed acceptable but not so for some of my mates who gave me grief because to them I was now aspiring to become middle class. They all lived near the college and the courses were free but due to cultural prejudice they weren't having it. I was considered like a traitor to my class.

There exists in certain sectors of the working class a prejudice against going into further education. I know because I held that attitude myself for some time and it cost me a lot to rid myself of it.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 22, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> what Spurs/Jews is ultra right nationalism?


 
A couple of Spurs fans mentioned below are ultra right-wing nationalists. Not clear as to whether they're Jewish, or not?




> Founded 18 February 2007 originally as March for the Flag by two fans of Tottenham Hotspur FC. It was renamed March for England (MFE) in November 2007. The Portsmouth-based MFE is a non-party English nationalist campaigning organisation. It is anti-immigration and anti-Islamist. MFE has close links with the English Defence League (EDL) and its activists regularly attend EDL demonstrations across the country. It also advertises EDL events on its website. MFE is run by a 12-strong committee. It claims 50-100 activists.


​ 
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/counter-jihad/country/UK


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 22, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> There exists in certain sectors of the working class a prejudice against going into further education. I know because I held that attitude myself for some time and it cost me a lot to rid myself of it.


 
I know this too.  Also to my cost.


----------



## albionism (Jul 22, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> In my experience some of the ones who have gone a step further and consider themselves to be revolutionary are the worst. I remember once talking to a "published" Trotskyist about some politics or other until he asked me what university I had attended. When I replied I had never been, the expression on his face became all contorted. I think a few cogs and wheels in his brain began to go into overdrive and his attitude changed instantly. His discomfort became palpable. After that he seemed to eye me with suspicion.


 
I had a similar experience in a pub i used to use some years ago that was near a university
campus. I was happily chatting away for an hour or so to one of the students about social justice, socialism,
etc, when she asked what i was studying at the Uni. When i told her i was a labourer on a building site,
that was it, conversation done, burgeoning friendship over. In fact, she actually physically gagged.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2012)

that's horrible


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2012)

jesus christ, what the fuck is wrong with people


----------



## audiotech (Jul 23, 2012)

Well, the above seems a far cry from when Trotskyist groups like the IMG had members working in car plants, SWP factory branches and others sensing you were a prole, swiftly engaged you to buy a paper, attend a meeting etc. Then there were those going around working class estates (myself and others I know live on council estates before anyone asks), leafleting, selling papers. Most people attending RAR events were young working class youth, same for Right to Work marches. A conversation with one dork doesn't represent the whole organisation he, or she apparently belongs to. "Trotskyist" was it? Has a whiff of trolling about it to me.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2012)

yeah SP are always pretty good in that regard ime.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 23, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Well, the above seems a far cry from when Trotskyist groups like the IMG had members working in car plants and others sensing you were a prole, swiftly engaged you to buy a paper, attend a meeting etc. Then there were those going around working class estates (myself and others I know live on council estates before anyone asks), leafleting, selling papers. Most people attending RAR events were young working class youth, same for Right to Work marches. A conversation with one dork doesn't represent the whole organisation he, or she apparently belongs to. "Trotskyist" was it? Has a whiff of trolling to me.


 


You're right "one dork doesn't represent the whole organisation he, or she apparently belongs to", but things aint what they used to be. All your examples are late 70's. My experience was mid 90's.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 23, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> You're right "one dork doesn't represent the whole organisation he, or she apparently belongs to", but things aint what they used to be. All your examples are late 70's. My experience was mid 90's.


 
But still the one dork. Yes?


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 23, 2012)

albionism said:


> I had a similar experience in a pub i used to use some years ago that was near a university
> campus. I was happily chatting away for an hour or so to one of the students about social justice, socialism,
> etc, when she asked what i was studying at the Uni. When i told her i was a labourer on a building site,
> that was it, conversation done, burgeoning friendship over. In fact, she actually physically gagged.


 
Jesus.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 23, 2012)

I think the SP are pretty good in that regard nowadays.

What were the Militant like?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> If a working class person is uneducated it's their own fault. This is your position, right? Just to be clear.



No. To be clear, it is not.

 To be clear I clearly said in a post upthread that childhood as an exception to the generality of what I was on about. I was talking more specifically about improving knowledge in adulthood.

And neither was I thinking or talking about formal education FWIW.

What interests me at the moment here, for all the pixels of invective ire levelled since around yesterday PM, is that no one seems to have answered the very simple point I made in response to the 'cunt' attack on Malatesta.

That attack was based on the premise that criticising ignorance (NOT lack of formal education, NOT lack of full literacy) was comparable to criticisng benefit claimants. 

In general, social mobility has decreased massively over the last generation. Access to work has decreased.
Access to knowledge has increased, though sadly aspects of that have been attacked by a government whose bizzare money cult thrives on ignorance (and I note how many of them are formally educated, how few of them are working class)

The anecdotes here of middle class revulsion at working class people without a degree or similar are a fine example of ignorance being ever present in all classes. Racist ignorance pervades all classes. 

I expect the least racist class overall is the working class, especially the urban working class.

I would go along with Orwell in saying that the working class is ultimately the best hope against fascism. Butchers will note that Starkey is forever referencing that quote.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 23, 2012)

IT DOESN'T MATTER


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

'Cardiff Lad' - a close friend of Jeff 'Stabby' Marsh, surrenders. It's verbose even by my standards but in short he has taken a conspiracy analysis that EDL is controlled opposition, running interference by being too nice to people of colour, LGBT etc. And being fronted by a more or less total fool.

http://twitpic.com/aamu0b


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 23, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Well, the above seems a far cry from when Trotskyist groups like the IMG had members working in car plants, SWP factory branches and others sensing you were a prole, swiftly engaged you to buy a paper, attend a meeting etc. Then there were those going around working class estates (myself and others I know live on council estates before anyone asks), leafleting, selling papers. Most people attending RAR events were young working class youth, same for Right to Work marches. A conversation with one dork doesn't represent the whole organisation he, or she apparently belongs to. "Trotskyist" was it? Has a whiff of trolling about it to me.


 
Most of the IMG were students who were told to get a manual job in their turn to the class period. You couldn't move for a Brit telecom engineer round our way who prattling on about the transitional programme or Nicaragua if you reported a fault on your telephone line.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> IT DOESN'T MATTER



A lot of people here seem to think so though.

Putting words in peoples mouths to have a go at them matters.

Groundlessly calling people 'cunt' matters.

Total failure to address a defence of that person while keeping up other well rehearsed  invective doesn't matter unless someone is perhaps driven by a 2 faced  sense of superiority and knowing best when others should "shut up".


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 23, 2012)

@ 39.


----------



## albionism (Jul 23, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I think the SP are pretty good in that regard nowadays.
> 
> What were the Militant like?


I spent a short amount of time with Militant in the late 80's
and everyone i met and worked with were pretty much ok
and there seemed to be more working class folk in Militant
than in many of the other Socialist groups i encountered at
the time.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> A lot of people here seem to think so though.
> 
> Putting words in peoples mouths to have a go at them matters.
> 
> ...


 
you've been wound up and strung out here, where the reaction seriously shouldn't have gone beyond 'oh it's not your cup of tea? oh well'... now it's just clogging up thread. you really shouldn't feel the need to justify yourself so much to the comedy afficionados of EDL Watch, if you like what you're doing just keep doing it and if you want a review set up a different thread


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> you've been wound up and strung out here, where the reaction seriously shouldn't have gone beyond 'oh it's not your cup of tea? oh well'... now it's just clogging up thread. you really shouldn't feel the need to justify yourself so much to the comedy afficionados of EDL Watch, if you like what you're doing just keep doing it and if you want a review set up a different thread



The latest round has nothing to do with what you refer to, at least not till Butchers dragged it up again in a sense that didn't even really prop up his point , and things moved on quite quickly to broader (and interesting). Obviously as the person who started this odyssey of a thread you have an interest in keeping it relevant, but 300 + pages are bound to spawn more than a few tangents. 

'Oh well it's not your cup of tea' is a good paraphrase of what I said a few times, but the attacks still came, it's other people that have struggled to let it lie. Personal attacks and snide one upmanship are not unique to this thread, I do believe they should be called out and find them depressing from people who are clearly capable of better.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 23, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Most of the IMG were students who were told to get a manual job in their turn to the class period. You couldn't move for a Brit telecom engineer round our way who prattling on about the transitional programme or Nicaragua if you reported a fault on your telephone line.


 
You could afford a phone? Eeeee, when I were a youngster we couldn't even afford a piece of string, let alone two empty tins to string together!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Now he thinks suggesting I have special needs is acceptable as an insult. Brilliant.


no. and calling someone a cunt is hardly better is it?


----------



## LLETSA (Jul 23, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Well, the above seems a far cry from when Trotskyist groups like the IMG had members working in car plants, SWP factory branches and others sensing you were a prole, swiftly engaged you to buy a paper, attend a meeting etc. Then there were those going around working class estates (myself and others I know live on council estates before anyone asks), leafleting, selling papers. Most people attending RAR events were young working class youth, same for Right to Work marches. A conversation with one dork doesn't represent the whole organisation he, or she apparently belongs to. "Trotskyist" was it? Has a whiff of trolling about it to me.


 



In my experience (mostly early 1980s), the far-left groups were not full of middle class people who were lying in wait to patronise or otherwise do down members of the working class. If anything, there was a tendency to revere and idealise working class people, especially youth. It was when people inevitably failed to live up to the ideal that some hostility could come peeping through, particularly from the more naive or politically weak kind of middle class activist. Even then, though, there were others who were not so naive and recognised their own relative privileges. Of course, the (mostly) middle class leaders at all levels of these kind of groups do tend to use people and then discard them, but it was often the middle class members who ended up more fucked up by the experience. Working class members had usually remained closer to their own backgrounds and could more easily give the great leaders the finger. Middle class activists were more likely to feel isolated when disillusion set in and were often less emotionally stable.

On the wider point being made higher up in the thread, I'd say that the main problem-that working class people are at a permanent disadvantage educationally-is only going to get worse while present trends continue. Until all schools strive towards the same educational standards and levels of discipline that private and other elite schools enjoy, then the gulf can only widen. And, of course, the fact that this isn't going to happen has obvious political implications.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

More on the surrender of Marsh's 'friend'

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/2065/jeff-marsh-a-war-of-words


----------



## LLETSA (Jul 23, 2012)

We can, however, take comfort from the fact that the educational advantages of the middle classes are partly diluted by all social classes being equally susceptible the wall-to-wall drivel inflicted by a media-saturated society. Lots of middle class people now have calf tattoos, for instance, and what better indication could there be that a higher standard of education is no guarantee against bad taste, crassness and stupidity?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> More on the surrender of Marsh's 'friend'
> 
> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/2065/jeff-marsh-a-war-of-words


Not that i give that much of a shit, but Jane Couch ain't like  that - you can't be in bristol gyms - she just got mugged i think.


----------



## Corax (Jul 23, 2012)

LLETSA said:


> We can, however, take comfort from the fact that the educational advantages of the middle classes are partly diluted by all social classes being equally susceptible the wall-to-wall drivel inflicted by a media-saturated society. Lots of middle class people now have calf tattoos, for instance, and what better indication could there be that a higher standard of education is no guarantee against bad taste, crassness and stupidity?


Same aspirational pissing that a certain element of the MC has always been afflicted by. Only now the object of their lust is celebrity culture rather than horse-riding toffs.

In my entirely unacademic view the MC doesn't exist. Instead, we have a group of who have lucked out enough in life to find themselves around the median on a number of measures - one set of which see themselves as working people who have done alright, and identify more with the WC than the aristos - and the other set which looks down on the rest of society and would rather put their nadgers in a toasted-sandwich-maker than think of themselves as essentially working class but lucky. All of these people are selling their labour for others to profit from it, and the split depends solely on perceptions and the way they self-identify.

I've wondered at times about who the idea of a 'middle class' serves. It distances a huge swathe of people from 'issues that affect the working class'. It allows these people to see these issues as not affecting them, nothing to do with them, not their fight - despite the fact that they're no more than 3 pay-cheques away from being right on the end of it.

Probably a load of bollocks, and I expect butchersapron will tell me so shortly.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2012)

You sound like taffboy.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2012)

there's definitely a group which could be termed the middle class, the conditions of life of much of the m/c are becoming more and more "working class" though (or the perception is that they're becoming this way anyway). there's still huge advantages in terms of economics, social capital etc though. and different people are responding to these processes in different ways.


----------



## Corax (Jul 23, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> there's definitely a group which could be termed the middle class, the conditions of life of much of the m/c are becoming more and more "working class" though (or the perception is that they're becoming this way anyway). there's still huge advantages in terms of economics, social capital etc though. and different people are responding to these processes in different ways.


You can define the group yes, but I'm not sure what purpose it serves.  A lot of previously "middle-class" people end up in poverty after redundancy, or a psychotic episode, or a drink/substance problem, or a messy divorce, or etc.  They don't have the security of capital/means of production, and so can very quickly find themselves dumped to the bottom of the food-chain.  But by having this label of middle-class, that realisation doesn't come until after the event.

It seems to me that if those millions of people understood that, then perhaps 'working class issues' would become the majority's issues.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2012)

The purpose? To identify the social relations that govern society, how they function and how they produce interests.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

The full horror carried out by the global banking crime syndicate pushes many 'middle class' interests much closer still to those who consciously identify as working class. Many of the working class of the 'developed' world are pushed to virtual or actual destitution in turn. In absolute terms theirs is the worst condition, but in raw financial terms the middle class have more to lose (be robbed of) Too many of them backed the wrong horse. I've yet to see a single Mea Culpa from the cultist mugs, not only in following such a fatuous creed but also in preaching it and denouncing sceptics with revolting piety. 

Now their 'masters of the universe' have made off with all the loot following the 'end of history' but I have yet to see a proper apology from the cheerleaders, I dare say they lack the awareness and decency to say sorry.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

'This Is How Racism Takes Root"

http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr...ism-takes-root?cat=commentisfree&type=article

A comparison between coverage of recent paedophile ring cases according to ethnicity and faith.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 23, 2012)

'Racism and the EDL: Lessons from history.'


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> no. and calling someone a cunt is hardly better is it?


 
Of course it's better. And if you can't understand why you really are a cunt.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The full horror carried out by the global banking crime syndicate pushes many 'middle class' interests much closer still to those who consciously identify as working class. Many of the working class of the 'developed' world are pushed to virtual or actual destitution in turn. In absolute terms theirs is the worst condition, but in raw financial terms the middle class have more to lose (be robbed of) Too many of them backed the wrong horse. I've yet to see a single Mea Culpa from the cultist mugs, not only in following such a fatuous creed but also in preaching it and denouncing sceptics with revolting piety.
> 
> Now their 'masters of the universe' have made off with all the loot following the 'end of history' but I have yet to see a proper apology from the cheerleaders, I dare say they lack the awareness and decency to say sorry.


 
You don't always have to type in sloganese you know.

Historically the newly pauperised m/c (those "with more to lose") have been as likely to turn to the far right as to the labour movement, if not more so. Often because they viewed the working class as an uneducated, ignorant rabble, and blamed that ignorance on on personal character flaws. Like you do.


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 23, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> You don't always have to type in sloganese you know.
> 
> Historically the newly pauperised m/c (those "with more to lose") have been as likely to turn to the far right as to the labour movement, if not more so. Often because they viewed the working class as an uneducated, ignorant rabble, and blamed that ignorance on on personal character flaws. Like you do.


the left and the 'labour movement' are somewhat different things. one can be attracted or a member to the left without actually ever coming into contact with members of the working class, and there has always been a current which espouses a left wing discourse which is patronising and finds the proletariat distasteful in reality. the goal of their socialism is the doing away with the ignorant masses, and the creation of a 'new man', molded in a distinctly middle class image.
    in the early 1920s the intellectuals of the ILP fought tooth and nail to impose distinctly 'socialist' policies upon the Labour party, in the face of opposition from conservative trades unionists. Many despaired of the ignorance of the uneducated mob and the obstacles which democracy, whether within the labour party or in parliamentary elections put in the way of their plans for social renewal. In the face of unparralleled capitalist crisis, there was simply not enough time for winning the ignorant masses over. What was needed was Action! and so these earnest young educated left wingers abandoned labour and joined with a firebrand labour party MP in a breakaway party of action.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2012)

Are you suggesting mcdonnel is going to lead a _new type_ of party


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 23, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> the left and the 'labour movement' are somewhat different things. one can be attracted or a member to the left without actually ever coming into contact with members of the working class, and there has always been a current which espouses a left wing discourse which is patronising and finds the proletariat distasteful in reality. the goal of their socialism is the doing away with the ignorant masses, and the creation of a 'new man', molded in a distinctly middle class image.
> in the early 1920s the intellectuals of the ILP fought tooth and nail to impose distinctly 'socialist' policies upon the Labour party, in the face of opposition from conservative trades unionists. Many despaired of the ignorance of the uneducated mob and the obstacles which democracy, whether within the labour party or in parliamentary elections put in the way of their plans for social renewal. In the face of unparralleled capitalist crisis, there was simply not enough time for winning the ignorant masses over. What was needed was Action! and so these earnest young educated left wingers abandoned labour and joined with a firebrand labour party MP in a breakaway party of action.


i would have thought that molding 'the new man' in a distinctly middle class image would prove something of a cul-de-sac as this 'new man' would be nothing more than a throwback to the bad auld days.


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Are you suggesting mcdonnel is going to lead a _new type_ of party


the individual who always springs to mind has a special relationship with Blackburn, Barnsley, Brighton Bradford


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2012)

lustbather? I agree.


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 23, 2012)

completely off topic, but I have only about 4 followers on twitter, until the other day when

*darren redstar,*
You have a new follower on Twitter










*Tim Starkey*
@TimLabour
_Labour Candidate for Police and Crime Commissioner in the Thames Valley. Barrister and criminal justice expert tackling crime and social injustice._

Following: 770 · Followers: 112

WTF


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 24, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> You don't always have to type in sloganese you know.
> 
> Historically the newly pauperised m/c (those "with more to lose") have been as likely to turn to the far right as to the labour movement, if not more so. Often because they viewed the working class as an uneducated, ignorant rabble, and blamed that ignorance on on personal character flaws. Like you do.


 
I'm not going to rise to that from someone who groundlessly calls people "cunt" without once addressing the reasons why it was not the case.

Here's how much I own the means of production: Zero.

Here's how I make any money : Selling my labour.

The balance between what might be called working and middle class people I know is tilted toward the former, it's a very heavy tilt in pure economic terms (how I see it)

I don't see a significant in levels of ignorance or character flaws between them. 

I answered your charge plainly and with explanation upthread.  You didn't speak to it just as you haven't spoken to plenty else I have said. That's a key element I've noticed in cyber cowards - always happy to dish out the questions, never half as arsed to deal with the responses, doesn't suit the agenda maybe. Not as arsed about answering questions, such as the one I put to you repeatedly, directly related to your arrogant and wrong headed insult against another poster.

At least Butchers can be funny and useful and perceptive things, and at least his challenges are often thought provoking.

Why do you have to keep returning to baseless personal attacks like a dog to a bone? The thread has moved on hopefully. 

Why do you put words in people's mouths? 

What good do you think it does?

Is it a technique you apply to such political efforts away from here as you are engaged in?

Do you know if it works to convince anyone other than yourself?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2012)

Nobody's putting words in anyone's mouths. You haven't given anything like a coherent case for why it's "not the case" - just a load of long winded waffle.

You just have deep seated prejudices that you don't even notice. I don't want to convince you of anything at all - you're as much my enemy as the subject of this thread.

Cunt.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 24, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> the left and the 'labour movement' are somewhat different things. one can be attracted or a member to the left without actually ever coming into contact with members of the working class, and there has always been a current which espouses a left wing discourse which is patronising and finds the proletariat distasteful in reality. the goal of their socialism is the doing away with the ignorant masses, and the creation of a 'new man', molded in a distinctly middle class image.
> in the early 1920s the intellectuals of the ILP fought tooth and nail to impose distinctly 'socialist' policies upon the Labour party, in the face of opposition from conservative trades unionists. Many despaired of the ignorance of the uneducated mob and the obstacles which democracy, whether within the labour party or in parliamentary elections put in the way of their plans for social renewal. In the face of unparralleled capitalist crisis, there was simply not enough time for winning the ignorant masses over. What was needed was Action! and so these earnest young educated left wingers abandoned labour and joined with a firebrand labour party MP in a breakaway party of action.


 

There's a lot to that post, but what you are missing with the rhetorical trick at the end (and indeed throughout) is any mention of nationalism or indeed the international context of the time.

It is no secret that fascism had many many admirers in the middle and upper class, well it's kind of dirty secret in many ways. Churchill was one of the only tories to see Hitler as a threat.

I came across a 1936 Encylopedia when I was young. The short biog on Hitler concluded that some of his policies were "seen as controversial".


In contrast, we know how many of the working class (and possibly middle too) gave or risked their lives in Spain (some Irish ended up on the wrong side backing who they saw as their Catholic bretheren - the partial if not whole roots of Fine Gael - the "blueshirts")


To be honest though, I think first time around : Il Duce, Franco, Hitler, Mosely et al: Did the dupes and droolers have more of an excuse without the lessons of history to draw on?

I quickly found that saying "don't vote BNP, they're fascist" was pretty pointless because so many people didn't really know what "fascist" was anyway.

That's ignorance, and you don't need to be formally educated or middle class to be void of it. Many ignorant people are both.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I'm not going to rise to that from someone who groundlessly calls people "cunt" without once addressing the reasons why it was not the case.


 
Not groundless at all. The cunt quite explicitly stated that he believed ignorance to be a result of individual character flaws. Therefore he's a cunt. I stand by my claim that he's a cunt. Because he's a cunt.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> [pointless crap snipped]The balance between what might be called working and middle class people I know is tilted toward the former, it's a very heavy tilt in pure economic terms (how I see it)


 
What does that even mean? The balance of power is in favour of the working class? You're mental.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I don't see a significant in levels of ignorance or character flaws between them


 
That's not even a sentence. You're clearly too lazy to learn to write properly etc.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I answered your charge plainly and with explanation upthread. You didn't speak to it just as you haven't spoken to plenty else I have said. That's a key element I've noticed in cyber cowards - always happy to dish out the questions, never half as arsed to deal with the responses, doesn't suit the agenda maybe. Not as arsed about answering questions, such as the one I put to you repeatedly, directly related to your arrogant and wrong headed insult against another poster.


 
More lunacy. What charge? When did urban become a court?



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Why do you have to keep returning to baseless personal attacks like a dog to a bone? The thread has moved on hopefully.


 
Because they're not baseless personal attacks. Exposing your prejudice is the only decent thing to come out of this thread anyway.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Why do you put words in people's mouths


 
I don't. I merely expose the thought processes behind the nonsense you type.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What good do you think it does?


 
This a tiny corner of the internet. Very little we do on here has any effect whatsoever, good or bad.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Is it a technique you apply to such political efforts away from here as you are engaged in?


 
Yes. I call it as I see it - most people respect that.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Do you know if it works to convince anyone other than yourself?


 
I do as it happens. I've found that honestly explaining how I see things is the only way to convince anyone of anything. The alternative is to look like, and be, a lying hypocrite.

I don't want to win you over to anything by the way, I think you're a complete and utter liability.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 24, 2012)

Spiney Norman

Your "cunt" point about malatesta is poorly defended again, almost as poor as your lack of attempt to address my challenge to it.

But I now have a better understanding of why.

"What does that even mean? The balance of power is in favour of the working class? You're mental."
Now. Read what I said again. Why would the balance of economic power be towards the working class. Did the more obvious and obvious sense-in-context "balance of numbers" not occur to you? Or are you so fixated on seeing and finding something to slag someone off for. Well, we've seen your form in that regard.

So you had to stick another word in, get it wrong, assume you were write and use a dubious term to insult me. If you put up stupid strawmen so easily it's a waste of time trying to converse. So I genuinely haven't read any more of your arrogant, deluded uncomprehending stuff since, and thus won't respond to what ever ill founded nonsense it may contain. I suggest we both leave it there.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 24, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> completely off topic, but I have only about 4 followers on twitter, until the other day when
> 
> *darren redstar,*
> You have a new follower on Twitter
> ...


 
Are you Darren Redstar? I wondered what happened to you!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 24, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Of course it's better. And if you can't understand why you really are a cunt.


you really did miss the point didnt you. over and out and off on hols!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

YimStarkey looks like someone who has been hit in the face with a shovel, someone should advise him against smiling


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 24, 2012)

cumface.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> you really did miss the point didnt you. over and out and off on hols!



There wasn't really a point was there? Other than you crying about being called a nasty name on the internet.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Spiney Norman
> 
> Your "cunt" point about malatesta is poorly defended again, almost as poor as your lack of attempt to address my challenge to it.



There wasn't a challenge to it. Silly boy. 



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> But I now have a better understanding of why.
> 
> "What does that even mean? The balance of power is in favour of the working class? You're mental."
> Now. Read what I said again. Why would the balance of economic power be towards the working class. Did the more obvious and obvious sense-in-context "balance of numbers" not occur to you? Or are you so fixated on seeing and finding something to slag someone off for. Well, we've seen your form in that regard.



It didn't occur to me because you didn't say it. You just wrote that the balance was in favour of the working class. How the fuck was anyone suppose to know what you were on about when you didn't bother saying? And now of course there's the question: why on earth did you feel the need to say that? What's the relevance?



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> So you had to stick another word in, get it wrong, assume you were write and use a dubious term to insult me.



*right* you're like one of those illiterate proles in the EDL. And I didn't assume anything, hence the question mark. 


taffboy gwyrdd said:


> If you put up stupid strawmen so easily it's a waste of time trying to converse. So I genuinely haven't read any more of your arrogant, deluded uncomprehending stuff since, and thus won't respond to what ever ill founded nonsense it may contain. I suggest we both leave it there.



And lol


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

Corax said:


> You can define the group yes, but I'm not sure what purpose it serves. A lot of previously "middle-class" people end up in poverty after redundancy, or a psychotic episode, or a drink/substance problem, or a messy divorce, or etc. They don't have the security of capital/means of production, and so can very quickly find themselves dumped to the bottom of the food-chain. But by having this label of middle-class, that realisation doesn't come until after the event.
> 
> It seems to me that if those millions of people understood that, then perhaps 'working class issues' would become the majority's issues.


 
You're making claims that you simply can't quantify, frankly. "A lot" in comparison to what? In comparison to the total size of the _haute bourgeoisie_?
The fact is that the middle classes are better-insulated against such issues than their working class counterparts, and for all that individuals may fall through the gaps, the _bourgeois_ angst isn't directed against what causes them to, but still against those of us whom they might become like.

Save your tears for a time when the middle classes as a social bloc *don't* automatically react to economic hardship by trying to screw the working classes.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> There's a lot to that post, but what you are missing with the rhetorical trick at the end (and indeed throughout) is any mention of nationalism or indeed the international context of the time.
> 
> It is no secret that fascism had many many admirers in the middle and upper class, well it's kind of dirty secret in many ways. Churchill was one of the only tories to see Hitler as a threat.


 
Woeful. Absolutely fucking woeful.
Learn some history, for fuck's sake.
Fascism (and Nazism) wasn't a Tory disease, it was rife throughout the upper and middle classes, whatever their political bent.



> I came across a 1936 Encylopedia when I was young. The short biog on Hitler concluded that some of his policies were "seen as controversial".


 
In 1936 that's exactly what they were. Your encyclopedia-writers didn't have the benefit of hindsight that you have.



> In contrast, we know how many of the working class (and possibly middle too) gave or risked their lives in Spain (some Irish ended up on the wrong side backing who they saw as their Catholic bretheren - the partial if not whole roots of Fine Gael - the "blueshirts")


 
For a potted history, that's absolutely fucking risible.



> To be honest though, I think first time around : Il Duce, Franco, Hitler, Mosely et al: Did the dupes and droolers have more of an excuse without the lessons of history to draw on?


 
Not really. Fascisms were a new face to some older ideas, with some new takes on capital thrown in.



> I quickly found that saying "don't vote BNP, they're fascist" was pretty pointless because so many people didn't really know what "fascist" was anyway.


 
Wrong, people know what "fascist" means in most contexts *except* the historical (which is, of course, the most important one to know).



> That's ignorance, and you don't need to be formally educated or middle class to be void of it. Many ignorant people are both.


 
Thatks for that illuminating observation.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> YimStarkey looks like someone who has been hit in the face with a shovel, someone should advise him against smiling


 
A soulmate for Hollobone?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

oh god can you imagine


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 24, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Are you Darren Redstar? I wondered what happened to you!


I didn't think it was a secret, I have referred. To myself quite a bit, and there was one of those knowing threads about returning under new names, sorry.
 I think I said once before that I wasn't particularly proud of my attitude when I was on here before, and decided to start again with a clean state.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 24, 2012)

It doesn't get much more confusing than this.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Jul 24, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Save your tears for a time when the middle classes as a social bloc *don't* automatically react to economic hardship by trying to screw the working classes.


 
Indeed.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> oh god can you imagine


 
I just did, and now I'm going to go and vomit.


----------



## Corax (Jul 24, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Save your tears for a time when the middle classes as a social bloc *don't* automatically react to economic hardship by trying to screw the working classes.


You're ascribing emotions to me that simply aren't there.  I'm not talking about tears or pity, I'm pointing out the essential fragility and artificiality of the WC/MC class distinction, and suggesting the advantages that could be gained by eroding it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

Corax said:


> You're ascribing emotions to me that simply aren't there.


 
I was being polite and not saying "spare me your fatuous emoting". 



> I'm not talking about tears or pity, I'm pointing out the essential fragility and artificiality of the WC/MC class distinction, and suggesting the advantages that could be gained by eroding it.


 
You're pointing at a small wear mark on a copper-bottomed set of distinctions that have given the working classes the shitty end of the stick for 2 centuries. They may be artificial, but they're certainly not fragile, and they certainly appear to have a great deal of utility for the middle classes.
As for advantages to erosion, sure. *If* there were some way to legislate and enforce social equality, but there isn't, especially not when one side of the distinction can count on benefitting from it to the degree that the middle classes continue to.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I just did, and now I'm going to go and vomit.


 
i've now got visions of what sort of children they'd have  thanks for that


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i've now got visions of what sort of children they'd have  thanks for that


 
Their male offspring would look like Fred West.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

Corax said:


> You're ascribing emotions to me that simply aren't there. I'm not talking about tears or pity, I'm pointing out the essential fragility and artificiality of the WC/MC class distinction, and suggesting the advantages that could be gained by eroding it.


 
i agree, in my opinion it's being eroded anyway by circumstances, at least in some cases. and different people respond to that in different ways. some of the middle class respond to it by siding more and more with the working class (see doctors/headteachers, while a middle class profession for example, and the upper layers of management, and many of whom will be independently wealthy/privately educated etc, going on strike for the first time). see also small businessmen/shopkeepers putting up notices refusing to serve scabs in the miners strike etc.

others don't, others a mixture of the two. i wouldn't like to say that the "middle class" all respond in one way (good or bad) to these attacks because there is a confusion about what is meant by the middle class, and traditionally they've/we've been the class that have responded to this stuff in a very very variable manner. and of course it's undeniable that a landlord or a small business owner or whatever *will* be at an economic advantage compared to yer average prole even if it is slight


----------



## Corax (Jul 24, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> As for advantages to erosion, sure.


And that's the bit I'm talking about.

Yes the MC profit from etc and prop up the blah, that's all a given.  But holding a grudge about that is the most pointless emoting of all.  You're one of the more objective posters on here IMO, but even with you there's a subtext of resentment and hostility in the post above.  I'm not saying that's wrong, or undeserved, or anything of the sort - I just think it's counterproductive.  The MC share far more with the WC than the rich, and should be standing alongside as a source of funding and influence.  Instead, all the rhetoric distances them and those potential advantages are lost.  The main reason for that seems to be some sort of classist puritanism.

Ps: re fragility - A P45 and 3 pay-cheques is a pretty fragile distinction IMO.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

well there's the whole question of what's meant by the middle class anyway, a lot of people think teachers are middle class, and to some extent culturally they are. but if you have to sell your labour you're working class


----------



## Corax (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> well there's the whole question of what's meant by the middle class anyway, a lot of people think teachers are middle class, and to some extent culturally they are. *but if you have to sell your labour you're working class*


That in bold is exactly what I was talking about when I earlier said that I don't think the middle class really exists.

It's a construct.  Divide and rule.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

Corax said:


> That in bold is exactly what I was talking about when I earlier said that I don't think the middle class really exists.
> 
> It's a construct. Divide and rule.


 
It does though. my family is middle class - my dad doesn't really have to work. he hasn't had to work really for the last ten years - he had a business and has mostly been living off the money from that for the last ten years. we're not rich, but he's not poor either.

for the moment.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

damn you, trying to deny my class consciousness


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

*awaits ostracision*

i'm serious though. you can't seriously say that somebody in my dad's position is the same economically speaking as somebody who's three paycheques from disaster but who happens to have gone to uni. i hate the term middle class anyway, i prefer "petite bourgeoisie" because there's less scope for confusion. Yes I'm weird lol

that said, the modern day petite bourgeoise's conditions have changed a lot. It is undeniable that our "conditions" have changed (got a lot worse) in the last 10 years and if my dad was starting his business now he wouldn't have been able to live that well as he did on the money he made. I don't think it's the same as the working class though and I don't think that it can be denied that middle class people have (or mostly have) options and opportunities that working class people frequently don't have.

that isn't saying that they're bad or should be ostracised or whatever. it's just stating a fact.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> *awaits ostracision*
> 
> i'm serious though. you can't seriously say that somebody in my dad's position is the same economically speaking as somebody who's three paycheques from disaster. i hate the term middle class anyway, i prefer "petite bourgeoisie" because there's less scope for confusion. Yes I'm weird lol


what's wrong with the traditional term 'petit bourgeoisie'? why make a masculine term feminine?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

Corax said:


> And that's the bit I'm talking about.
> 
> Yes the MC profit from etc and prop up the blah, that's all a given. But holding a grudge about that is the most pointless emoting of all.


 
I don't hold a grudge, I state a fact.

Do I resent the lived reality of that fact? Of course I do! The impact of it is so wide-ranging on "the lower-orders", and often so arbitrary, that I'd have to be some sort of Gandhi *not* to resent it.



> You're one of the more objective posters on here IMO, but even with you there's a subtext of resentment and hostility in the post above.


 
Of course there is! Our lives are shaped by our circumstances, and as a member of the working class, my overall life circumstances, regardless of objectivity, erudition, or astoundingly-good looks (at least one of those is a lie!) have been partly shaped by forces beyond my control, forces the middle classes have exerted.



> I'm not saying that's wrong, or undeserved, or anything of the sort - I just think it's counterproductive. The MC share far more with the WC than the rich, and should be standing alongside as a source of funding and influence. Instead, all the rhetoric distances them and those potential advantages are lost. The main reason for that seems to be some sort of classist puritanism.


 
This isn't a message that you need to preach to the working classes. We've extended a fraternal hand many times over the centuries, only to have it slapped away.



> Ps: re fragility - A P45 and 3 pay-cheques is a pretty fragile distinction IMO.


 
Average savings in the social and professional strata currently taken to constitute "the middle class" is >£12,000, as opposed to <£2,500 for those taken to constitute the working class. I'd say that the insulation for the "average" member of each class shows that the w/c person is going to feel the chill a bit sooner than their m/c counterpart, wouldn't you agree?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> *awaits ostracision*
> 
> i'm serious though. you can't seriously say that somebody in my dad's position is the same economically speaking as somebody who's three paycheques from disaster. i hate the term middle class anyway, i prefer "petite bourgeoisie" because there's less scope for confusion. Yes I'm weird lol


 
Bourgeois women of small stature?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 24, 2012)

My experience of proper middle class: they have a flat off the kings road and a cottage for weekends in the country. The woman is a journalist and her husband a successful restaurateur. Kids privately educated. Pims and Tennis. 

Teachers are just well paid proles.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> My experience of proper middle class: they have a flat off the kings road and a cottage for weekends in the country. The woman is a journalist and her husband a successful restaurateur. Kids privately educated. Pims and Tennis.
> 
> Teachers are just well paid proles.


 
that's not middle class, that's posh, which is completely different

if you're a successful restauranteur you're no longer part of the PETIT bourgeoisie lol


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 24, 2012)

I mix up bourgeois and bourgeosie aswell.

Quick lesson pls.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> that's not middle class, that's posh, which is completely different


 
How so? He's petit bourgeoisie. They're not upper class by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> well there's the whole question of what's meant by the middle class anyway, a lot of people think teachers are middle class, and to some extent culturally they are. but if you have to sell your labour you're working class


 
It's about the choices inherent to the sale of your labour that you can exercise, and how skilled your labour is, as well as about distance from a means of production. With more skill comes more choice, as well as the social capital to maximise the returns on your labour.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> How so? He's petit bourgeoisie. They're not upper class by any stretch of the imagination.


 
if you've got a successful restaurant or chain of restaurants you're bourgeoisie - the aristocracy (the real posh) are something different

i expect somebody will be along in a mo to tell me i'm talking bollocks


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> if you've got a successful restaurant or chain of restaurants you're bourgeoisie - the aristocracy (the real posh) are something different
> 
> i expect somebody will be along in a mo to tell me i'm talking bollocks


 
They're probably upper middle class then.  I do class the aristocracy as exclusively the upper class. Maybe I have that wrong.

Actually you might be right. I don't think he worked alongside the chefs etc.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I mix up bourgeois and bourgeosie aswell.
> 
> Quick lesson pls.


 
Bourgeois - singular or impersonal collective definition. "He is bourgeois". "They are bourgeois swine".

Bourgeoisie - Definitive collective definition.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 24, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Bourgeois - singular or impersonal collective definition. "He is bourgeois". "They are bourgeois swine".
> 
> Bourgeoisie - Definitive collective definition.


 
Cheers.


----------



## Corax (Jul 24, 2012)

I think a lot of this comes down to definitions of middle class tbh. Frogwoman's dad I don't see as a typical member of the working class, as he doesn't need to work. Teachers, accountants, IT bods, public sector middle-managers (like me) are what I perceive as the typical middle-class. Those people don't have 12k in the bank.

I'm not altogether convinced how much salary comes into it anyway. Plenty of tradesmen that would self-define as working class earn a damn sight more than me or others in those groups above.

Oh shit, I've started another variant on the 'does class exist' thread haven't I. 

I dunno.  I just think that harnessing the power of the majority would be a good thing, and the MC/WC distinction is generally not worth sacrificing that potential.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm a fucking weirdo lol, but I don't like the term middle class, I think that if you're discussing in economic terms "labour aristocracy" or "petit bourgeoisie" depending on what kind of middle class people you're talking about is a lot more accurate

it's all right if you want to swear at taffboy though


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 24, 2012)

you can be posh and middle class and not posh and middle class... 'posh' isn't really a technical term for owt ;P

i'd say teachers are middle class because their job provides them with legal privileges, relative autonomy and creative control (albeit increasingly hampered). in almost every sense, teaching is one of the old 'professions' - qualitatively different from jobs with completely restricted creative roles and responsibilities. it also still carries with it a degree of social capital and potential for career advancement into other spheres of public service. even though teachers are paid less than a lot of folks in manual working professions, i'd say teachers weren't 'working class' for the above reasons

Edit: thread moved on without me


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

Corax said:


> I think a lot of this comes down to definitions of middle class tbh. Frogwoman's dad I don't see as a typical member of the working class, as he doesn't need to work. Teachers, accountants, IT bods, public sector middle-managers (like me) are what I perceive as the typical middle-class. Those people don't have 12k in the bank.
> 
> I'm not altogether convinced how much salary comes into it anyway. Plenty of tradesmen that would self-define as working class earn a damn sight more than me or others in those groups above.
> 
> Oh shit, I've started another variant on the 'does class exist' thread haven't I.


 
well exactly. Once he did though and I imagine it won't be long till he has to again. After 10 years I don't think he's got all that much now either tbf!


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> you can be posh and middle class and not posh and middle class... 'posh' isn't really a technical term for owt ;P
> 
> i'd say teachers are middle class because their job provides them with legal privileges, relative autonomy and creative control (albeit increasingly hampered). in almost every sense, teaching is one of the old 'professions' - qualitatively different from jobs with completely restricted creative roles and responsibilities. it also still carries with it a degree of social capital and potential for career advancement into other spheres of public service. even though teachers are paid less than a lot of folks in manual working professions, i'd say teachers weren't 'working class' for the above reasons
> 
> Edit: thread moved on without me


 
nah, they're labour aristocracy aren't they? Less and less though, as you say. I'd say they were working class. I'd never have said they were middle class except in a period where it carried a lot more social status and autonomy which it hasn't for a very long time now. Wasn't it Marx who described scchools as "teaching factories" in the 19th century? could be wrong tho.

you get headteachers going on strike though, or at least you did on the 30th November, and I wouldn't say those were usually "working class"


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm eating baked beans from a tin and stolidly refusing to sell my labour to the lowest bidder. Lumpen? I think not, these beans merely have sausages in them


----------



## Corax (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> you get headteachers going on strike though, or at least you did on the 30th November, and I wouldn't say those were usually "working class"


That made me think of Modric and Berbatov. Not the same kind of striking I know, but it did raise the question in my head of "Are professional footballers working class?" The quintessential working class sport, working class heroes - and on £90k a week.

No, I don't have any sort of point to this. 

Anyway... The EDL right? On balance, I reckon I'm against.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 24, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> nah, they're labour aristocracy aren't they? Less and less though, as you say. I'd say they were working class. I'd never have said they were middle class except in a period where it carried a lot more social status and autonomy which it hasn't for a very long time now. Wasn't it Marx who described scchools as "teaching factories" in the 19th century? could be wrong tho.
> 
> you get headteachers going on strike though, or at least you did on the 30th November, and I wouldn't say those were usually "working class"


 
lawyers can strike, judges can strike, police can strike... striking in and of itself isn't necessarily an indication of your 'class'. i think most on the left completely miss out on the importance of workplace alienation as a factor in the development of classes. to a great extent i think the keen-ness of many on the left to hoik teachers into the 'working class movement' is more an opportunistic one, based on the fact that teachers are one of the few remaining 'organised' and generally 'left leaning' groups left in the TU movement. they never used to be seen as a part of the working class, and they still play many of the same ideological and political roles of 'control' and instilling order that they always did.

also i hate school


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> lawyers can strike, judges can strike, police can strike... striking in and of itself isn't necessarily an indication of your 'class'. i think most on the left completely miss out on the importance of workplace alienation as a factor in the development of classes. to a great extent i think the keen-ness of many on the left to hoik teachers into the 'working class movement' is more an opportunistic one, based on the fact that teachers are one of the few remaining 'organised' and generally 'left leaning' groups left in the TU movement. they never used to be seen as a part of the working class, and they still play many of the same ideological and political roles of 'control' and instilling order that they always did.
> 
> also i hate school


 
undoubtedly they're like a more privileged section within the working class (mostly) but they still have to sell their labour and therefore are working class. same with police etc no? i'd still see the police as working class (despite being cunts). they still rely on a paycheque at the end of the day 

being working class doesn't mean you can't be a cunt, and the police are undoubtedly a more privileged section of it, but that doesn't mean they've become pb


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 24, 2012)

labour aristocracy, so far as i've always considered it, is based around skilled manual labour... still restricted in its creative scope and also specifically 'waged'. lots of people get paycheques, people in boardrooms get paycheques as do managers and all sorts. what makes the qualitative difference between working and middle-class 'professionalism' is, for me, the range of intellectual freedoms and creative control (coupled with the legal privileges mentioned earlier) which, combined together also act to attract higher levels of social capital.

i definitely don't see police as working class... i also struggle to see social workers, prison officers or anyone else with legal privileges allowing them to 'discipline' or control other working class people on behalf of the state as being 'workers'. my definition is structural, not subjective - as individuals they can still be progressive but their structural role in the perpetuation of social relations is definitively different


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

fair enough.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 24, 2012)

really, easy as that!? i'm getting better at this debating business


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 24, 2012)

nah, i disagree with you but i can see your argument. i dont have the energy to argue against it tonight though


----------



## emanymton (Jul 24, 2012)

I promised myself I wouldn't post on here any more but Fuck it I want to chuck a couple of thought into the class debate to confuse everyone more.

1) Is being working class about having to sell your labour, or about being exploited when you do? Middle management types still have to sell their labour but are arguable paid more than any value they produce where the workers are of course paid less. Is it the case that in exchange for their role of controlling and administrating the labour of others they are given a tiny share of the profits? Are footballers also in this group? If working class is just about selling your labour would that mean some chief executives are working class?

2) Marx drew a distinction between productive and nonproductive workers. Productive workers where basically just manufacturing and transport workers as they are they only ones involved in direct production of material goods. I think the ideal example of unproductive workers are bank workers as they don't produce anything their role is to extract surplus value produced by other workers for their bosses with a tiny fraction of it being syphoned of to pay their wages. They therefore suffer exploitation but do not themselves produce any surplus value. Is Marx right about this distinction? is it helpful? Are teachers, nurses, social workers etc productive or nonproductive workers? Are they workers at all?

Have I decided on answers to any of these question? Some yes but for most of them my answer is fuck knows. Have I got all my terminology correct? Probably not. Is this the wrong thread for this discussion? Absolutely!

Now I need to go a read something called 'the role of activation patterns in connectionsit models'.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> lawyers can strike, judges can strike, police can strike... striking in and of itself isn't necessarily an indication of your 'class'. i think most on the left completely miss out on the importance of workplace alienation as a factor in the development of classes. to a great extent i think the keen-ness of many on the left to hoik teachers into the 'working class movement' is more an opportunistic one, based on the fact that teachers are one of the few remaining 'organised' and generally 'left leaning' groups left in the TU movement. they never used to be seen as a part of the working class, and they still play many of the same ideological and political roles of 'control' and instilling order that they always did.
> 
> also i hate school


 
Point of order. Police in the UK signed up to a non-strike clause in return for an unspecified number of silver coins. Although they can strike, to do so would leave the officers and their union up Shit Creek without a paddle, in terms of breach of contract.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 24, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> labour aristocracy, so far as i've always considered it, is based around skilled manual labour... still restricted in its creative scope and also specifically 'waged'.


 
Not so sure about "specifically waged". What we nowadays call the "artisanal" classes, the boutique potters, stonemasons, fabricators etc, usually do piecework, i.e. get a negotiated rate for a particular job. It's the labour *they* contract that's usually waged.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 25, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> I didn't think it was a secret, I have referred. To myself quite a bit, and there was one of those knowing threads about returning under new names, sorry.
> I think I said once before that I wasn't particularly proud of my attitude when I was on here before, and decided to start again with a clean state.


 
I never found anything wrong with your attitude tbh


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 26, 2012)

Walthamstow cancelled or just HnH's usual pissing about?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Point of order. Police in the UK signed up to a non-strike clause in return for an unspecified number of silver coins. Although they can strike, to do so would leave the officers and their union up Shit Creek without a paddle, in terms of breach of contract.


 

30


----------



## framed (Jul 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Walthamstow cancelled or just HnH's usual pissing about?


 
It's not all that 'short notice' to change a date from 18th August to Sept 1st, is it?

I presume Hope Not Hate are hoping to provoke a furious email and facebook comments response to Robinson/Lennon 's late postponement and shift of dates.

_"You faaakin c@nt Lennon, if any further proof were needed that you and yer faakin uncle are provos in disguise, this is surely it!? Now I'll 'ave to make a 2 minute phone call and switch the bus from the 18th to the 1st, you treacherous faaakin c@nts!"_

Nah, I can't see many feathers being ruffled either, but it's nice of HNH to keep the EDL's events diary up-to-date for them.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 26, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I'm a fucking weirdo lol, but I don't like the term middle class, I think that if you're discussing in economic terms "labour aristocracy" or "petit bourgeoisie" depending on what kind of middle class people you're talking about is a lot more accurate
> 
> it's all right if you want to swear at taffboy though



Given that I have to sell my labour or sign on, ,have lived and worked in working class areas all my adult life and identify with interests of those who would see a vast re-transfer of production means and infrastructure to accountable public ownership? 

There's plenty like me, whose parents would be seen as middle class (dad was an academic)

I used to confuse culture and class a lot. I now see much of that as a divisive distraction. I now see class far more as a soley social and economic relationship thanks not least to this place.

I don't consider working class people predestined to ignorance of culture, history and know plenty who aint. Likewise I know plenty who might be supposed middle class who are ignorant of those things, and bigots into the bargain.

I have no wish to drag up past rows and am glad from some recent posts that even strictly off topic class discussion has moved on. On a personal level FW I have never and do not object to how you have disagreed with me.

another thing before some EDL commentary: FW your thing about thinking UC was exclusively aristo: there is gentryas well isn't there?

Again, with regards to money there are more than a few poverty stricken aristos and a respect in which money can't buy class or, more importantly, plain manners and human respect.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 26, 2012)

I think culture is intricate to class.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 26, 2012)

Anyhow...

Many will now know of the cancellation of the Luton demo planned for late Aug. The rather weird official notice of this cites a "change of approach" which seems like it might infer a longer term strategy change.

Greeted with mirth by many antis, this surrender could be deceptive. Nearly any approach would be better now than the downward spiral of recent months. I don't know what they are planning or, at least as interestingly, who is really behind this. They themselves may have no clue. But I don't see that champagne corks should pop just yet.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 26, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> I think culture is intricate to class.



OK, culture meaning?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2012)

Kev Carroll is standing for Bedford police commissioner for the Bfp


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 28, 2012)

http://britishfreedom.org/kevin-carroll-for-police-commissioner/


----------



## Corax (Jul 28, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://britishfreedom.org/kevin-carroll-for-police-commissioner/


 


> Proper enforcement of the law against alien practices such as female genital mutilation.


 
Do you want to guess how many instances of FGM are reported each year?

None.

It goes on of course, but it's hard for the police to _enforce _the law on a crime that goes unreported.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 28, 2012)

Silent Jhiad init.... So silent every fucker in the EDL knows all about it


----------



## albionism (Jul 29, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Kev Carroll is standing for Bedford police commissioner for the Bfp


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 29, 2012)

"_• Strong policing of anti-social behaviour that blights the lives of many families."_

How many EDL want that?​​_"• A crackdown on the dealing of hard drugs to young people."_​​Sun tanning 'aint gonna keep Tommeh in enough cash, does he know about this one?​​Then the one lifted straight from the BNP site:

"_For Kevin’s candidacy, we need to raise a deposit of £5000, and are asking members and supporters to give what they can, so that British Freedom can begin making Britain’s police service properly accountable to the law-abiding majority who pay for it."_

DONATE DONATE DONATE


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 29, 2012)

Griffin gets forced off an anti-rapist protest in Scotland...


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 29, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> labour aristocracy, so far as i've always considered it, is based around skilled manual labour... still restricted in its creative scope and also specifically 'waged'. lots of people get paycheques, people in boardrooms get paycheques as do managers and all sorts. what makes the qualitative difference between working and middle-class 'professionalism' is, for me, the range of intellectual freedoms and creative control (coupled with the legal privileges mentioned earlier) which, combined together also act to attract higher levels of social capital.
> 
> i definitely don't see police as working class... i also struggle to see social workers, prison officers or anyone else with legal privileges allowing them to 'discipline' or control other working class people on behalf of the state as being 'workers'. my definition is structural, not subjective - as individuals they can still be progressive but their structural role in the perpetuation of social relations is definitively different


 
Bus conductors, housing officers, traffic wardens, stray dog officers, Job centre staff, librarians, security staff, park staff, ticket inspectors ?


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 29, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> Griffin gets forced off an anti-rapist protest in Scotland...


 
The lad got kept in for 24 hours and then let out. I think he was NFA'd.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 29, 2012)

I was wrong. He was charged with breach


----------



## fiannanahalba (Jul 29, 2012)

Shocking. He was only asking the fash for a light.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 29, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Bus conductors, housing officers, traffic wardens, stray dog officers, Job centre staff, librarians, security staff, park staff, ticket inspectors ?


 
bus conductors, traffic wardens, stray dog officers, security staff, park staff and ticket inspectors in no way have creative control over their work.. they're given a restricted ability to refuse service or remove a person/people/things from a property or area. that's different from the creative discipline which teachers are able to employ, police, prison officers, and yes lots of welfare staff (including housing officers, who are actively involved in evictions) too.

there are some loose ends - but tbh i don't think it's too important. the other point to make is that it shouldn't be necessary to come up with a definition of class that accounts for the personal conditions and situations of every employed person in existence, so much as a definition which outlines general principles and links them to a structural analysis. i do happen to think that the present left, generally, casts the net too wide in claiming people for the 'working class' (based more upon an opportunistic grasp for organised and unionised sections of the workforce rather than any structural understanding of their social role in relation to capitalism). ironically, they do this at the same time as excluding many genuine working class people from their political horizons on account of their non-kosher attitudes and behaviours. and, also, essentially ignoring the majority of working class people by spending so much time obsessing about the 7% who are organised into TUs.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 29, 2012)

Not sure if pointed out yet, but Kev can't even apply for the role due to his criminal record....

it's just another way to make cash of fuckwits.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 29, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> bus conductors, traffic wardens, stray dog officers, security staff, park staff and ticket inspectors in no way have creative control over their work.. they're given a restricted ability to refuse service or remove a person/people/things from a property or area. that's different from the creative discipline which teachers are able to employ, police, prison officers, and yes lots of welfare staff (including housing officers, who are actively involved in evictions) too.
> 
> there are some loose ends - but tbh i don't think it's too important. the other point to make is that it shouldn't be necessary to come up with a definition of class that accounts for the personal conditions and situations of every employed person in existence, so much as a definition which outlines general principles and links them to a structural analysis. i do happen to think that the present left, generally, casts the net too wide in claiming people for the 'working class' (based more upon an opportunistic grasp for organised and unionised sections of the workforce rather than any structural understanding of their social role in relation to capitalism). ironically, they do this at the same time as excluding many genuine working class people from their political horizons on account of their non-kosher attitudes and behaviours. and, also, essentially ignoring the majority of working class people by spending so much time obsessing about the 7% who are organised into TUs.


 
what about say a person who goes from place to place selling their paintings and sketches?


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 30, 2012)

not really working class in any meaningful structural sense, nor in a historical sense which lends any perspective as to the development of capitalism


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> what about say a person who goes from place to place selling their paintings and sketches?


 

Hitler or Stanley Edwards


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> not really working class in any meaningful structural sense, nor in a historical sense which lends any perspective as to the development of capitalism


 
I am getting a bit confused here. In what way would this defining characteristic  of creative freedom that you mentioned earlier  contribute to the development of capitalism or have any meaningful historical sense?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Not sure if pointed out yet, but Kev can't even apply for the role due to his criminal record....
> 
> it's just another way to make cash of fuckwits.


What convictions are you thinking of?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What convictions are you thinking of?


 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8552065.stm


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8552065.stm


That doesn't disqualify him. Being convicted of an imprisonable offence would do, but a conditional discharge is not a conviction unless the conditions are breached.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2012)

> *A person may not stand as a PCC if:*
> 
> 
> they have been convicted of an imprisonable offence
> http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/police/police-crime-commissioners/candidates/standing-for-election/


 


> Magistrates in the town convicted the men following a trial.
> They both received a nine-month conditional discharge and were ordered to pay costs of £175 each.


 
Sorry i assumed that convicted meant just that, but im not well up on the law and things.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I am getting a bit confused here. In what way would this defining characteristic of creative freedom that you mentioned earlier contribute to the development of capitalism or have any meaningful historical sense?


 
because the historical development of capitalism specifically involved the alienation of labour of the working classes (which is one of the main reasons that an evolution from pre-capitalist forms to capitalism wasn't enough to satisfy people interested in human emancipation). it's one of the integral human and structural features of capitalism - the way in which value is extracted from the workforce - and despite being central to, for example, Marx's original ideas and economic writings it's a nuance which gets left out of a lot of current discourse within the left.


----------



## Corax (Jul 30, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Sorry i assumed that convicted meant just that, but im not well up on the law and things.


After a quick google, the specific charge is likely to have been a Section 5 - which doesn't appear to be imprisonable.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2012)

What he was charged with has max of a fine and 6 months. But it doesn't matter as he wasn't convicted.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2012)

Well it's not like he's going to get voted in anyway so it's 5K pissed up the wall if they even reach that target.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2012)

I agree, but this duff info is doing the rounds. Better to put it straight now rather than later.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2012)

Cool


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 30, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Hitler or Stanley Edwards


Neither Munich nor Granada but Beds


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2012)

What this move does do is give them a stuctured 3 month period of learning to work on things other than marches or the internet. It gives the serious ones experience in on-the-ground politics, in how to run campaigns, in how to talk to people and work out what appeals to them beyond their current agenda, it gives them time and space to identify who is serious and who is skilled, it gives them a unifying collective thing to work on and build a form of middle level management around who can then go off and try and do similar in their own areas on a smaller scale. Now, i fully expect anything learnt from all the above to ultimately benefit the BNP (under Griffin or not - when he goes there will be an influx i think) rather then the EDL or BFP but nevertheless, even the coming defeat has the potential to have knock-on consequences.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> because the historical development of capitalism specifically involved the alienation of labour of the working classes (which is one of the main reasons that an evolution from pre-capitalist forms to capitalism wasn't enough to satisfy people interested in human emancipation). it's one of the integral human and structural features of capitalism - the way in which value is extracted from the workforce - and despite being central to, for example, Marx's original ideas and economic writings it's a nuance which gets left out of a lot of current discourse within the left.


 
So Laurie Penny is on to a good thing then?


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 30, 2012)

how do you mean?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> how do you mean?


 
creative freedom


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What this move does do in give them a stuctured 3 month period of learning to work on things other than marches or the internet. It gives the serious ones experience in on-the-ground politics, in how to run campaigns, in how to talk to people and work out what appeals to them beyond their current agenda, it gives them time and space to identify who is serious and who is skilled, it gives them a unifying collective thing to work on and build a form of middle level management around who can then go off and try and do similar in their own areas on a smaller scale. Now, i fully expect anything learnt from all the above to ultimately benefit the BNP (under Griffin or not - when he goes there will be an influx i think) rather then the EDL or BFP but nevertheless, even the coming defeat has the potential to have knock-on consequences.


 

I think each candidate has to cough up £6k so its quite an expensive campaign


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jul 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> creative freedom


well yeah she's on a massive gravy train


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 30, 2012)

some more stuff on the Kev thing to LOL at....

http://imgur.com/a/xKX9n


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## cesare (Jul 31, 2012)

Oh god. They've got tv.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 31, 2012)

Mentioned by Griffin in that ^ speech:

http://www.libertiesalliance.org/

http://www.libertiesalliance.org/countries/united-kingdom/

Also mentioned by Griffin in his speech is his usual push button rhetoric of '"waves and waves" of immigration', 'inner city "hell-holes"' and "genocide".

Then, to ram home the "nationalist" message - a familiar BNP theme:

'Two "main groups" in the "middle-management"; "homosexuals" and "Jews".

Griffin's going to write a book.

He's also "standing for peace".

Time I sat down.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 1, 2012)

cant see british freedom making any headway. they have hardly any members, the link up with edl either was ignored or didnt rake in the capital they expected. having a deputy leader with a criminal record is a PR mistake. anti-fascists just have to highlight it to begin discrediting him. unkle kev has no record as such but have you seen his speeches? crivvens.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2012)

That edl stuff from griffin is pretty much the same as luther blissett has been pushing here and elsewhere.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 1, 2012)

butchers is luther blisset this flowers bloke who searchlight were banging on about?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2012)

He's the person whose made 250 posts on the edl on this thread. I don't know who he is beyond this, or who this searchlight flowers bloke is.

edit: it's actually nearer a 1000 but the search engine only does the last 250.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 1, 2012)

i think there was some weirdness going on!
http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/archive/strange-bedfellows


----------



## barney_pig (Aug 1, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i think there was some weirdness going on!
> http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/archive/strange-bedfellows


it is like reading a post denunciation Stalinist show trial tract. "the people we appointed, promoted, worked alongside, trusted with important and sensitive information, and still espouse the exact same politics as we do have broken from us and now turn out to have all the time been the tools of fascism, either useful idiots or co- conspiritors. Aren't we brilliant to expose them (send us more money)."


----------



## moonstomp (Aug 1, 2012)

EDL l rally /demo in keighley August 4Th [ sorry if already posted ] , I'd imagine they'll be crowing about it being a return to Bradford , not much chatter going on locally ,demo is right bang in middle of town


----------



## manny-p (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



good stuff nick! stay in brussels and don't try and hijack any demos where you will get battered.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 2, 2012)

How long do I have to watch before the Jewish conspiracy is revealed?


----------



## manny-p (Aug 2, 2012)

> soniagable *MOD* • 5 months ago • parent
> 
> [COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.496094)]−[/COLOR]​
> Re standing for the Lib Dems, that was before the coalition. Not to be repeated. I'm voting Green in May.
> ...


----------



## youngian (Aug 2, 2012)

manny-p said:


> good stuff nick! stay in brussels and don't try and hijack any demos where you will get battered.


 
I was told by someone who works in the Brussels parliament none of the local bars and restaurants would serve him and he has decamped to Strasbourg as he gets less recognised.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2012)

The parliament is stuffed with far-right types like him - i really would be surprised at any such boycott. Vlaams Belang are pretty strong in Brussels itself as well.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 2, 2012)

Belgium is as racist as fuck. He'd fit right in there. 

Even Santa's helpers black up ffs.


----------



## manny-p (Aug 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Belgium is as racist as fuck. He'd fit right in there.
> 
> Even Santa's helpers black up ffs.


jesus fuck


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 2, 2012)

http://bookofchoad.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/chodeoculturalisms-national-black-face.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> How long do I have to watch before the Jewish conspiracy is revealed?


 
Jewish conspiracy apart, he talks about 2 specific groups, The Liberty Alliance and the Anti defamation league who are activley promoting islamaphobia in europe. Not that he would care about that.

His problem is that they are trying to influence nationalist movements and give them a zionist attitude.

Is there any truth in it?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 2, 2012)

Well the EDL have a Jewish division. I'm guessing that's part of his beef. Would be funny if it turned out to be controlled by Mossad.


----------



## manny-p (Aug 2, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Jewish conspiracy apart, he talks about 2 specific groups, The Liberty Alliance and the Anti defamation league who are activley promoting islamaphobia in europe. Not that he would care about that.
> 
> His problem is that they are trying to influence nationalist movements and give them a zionist attitude.
> 
> Is there any truth in it?


 
Yes.


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Belgium is as racist as fuck. He'd fit right in there.
> 
> Even Santa's helpers black up ffs.


I knew that was Dutch.

Belgian too?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 2, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> I knew that was Dutch.
> 
> Belgian too?



Yep. Well, the Flemish originate from Holland so probably brought that particular custom with them.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Well the EDL have a Jewish division. I'm guessing that's part of his beef. Would be funny if it turned out to be controlled by Mossad.


 

isn't that just one bloke who left ages ago?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> isn't that just one bloke who left ages ago?



Probably. Although I thought that's one of the reasons why some of the diehard nationalists left.


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> isn't that just one bloke who left ages ago?


I thought it was a woman?

Roberta Moor IIRC - who was nuts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 2, 2012)

The NWI split was on internets rows based partly because the EDL love Israel- they only love Israel cos Israel smites brown people in my opinion.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 2, 2012)

the jewish div was run by roberta 'around no' moore who had a bun fight with hel 'and damnation' gower so it was taken over by some bloke who turned out to be as nuts. edl news have been covering it here: 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...l-ben-shuleman-informs-us-he-supports-breivik
as phoney as their lgbt brigade which is 1 guy who was in jail til recently.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> The NWI split was on internets rows based partly because the EDL love Israel- they only love Israel cos Israel smites brown people in my opinion.


 
yeah the infidels split was ostensibly over 'zionism', israeli flags, rainbow flags and the lgbt division but really more over ego and money. the NF welcomed them


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> I thought it was a woman?
> 
> Roberta Moor IIRC - who was nuts.


 
Bobby Moore?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 2, 2012)

Bobby Mooreberg


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 3, 2012)

luton demo cancelled, walthamstow cancelled, bristol fail to get numbers, chelmo surrounded by plod and frogmarched out of the area, keighley will be interesting. the plod comm move gets them publicity without being arrested. kev is standing as EDL not as a fluffy BF as it is supposed to be non-political!!!! welll thought through there kev!


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 3, 2012)

keighley details. looks like another dry demo and all that that entails. they never learn! 
Revised Keighley demo details  August 4th  Head to The Commercial pub from 12pm which the police have designated for us to use.BD25HS.  Those arriving by train will be escorted to the pub.  At 2pm we will head to Church Green where the demo will take place and speeches will be heard.

AND
A few going on the train from Leeds they’ll be in spoons by the station from 9.30


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 3, 2012)

it gets increasingly bizarre! 
 Unfortunately, my last demo was Barking in March last year, where I missed the actual demo because* I washed my jacket the night before and it took ages to dry,* as well as all the letters falling off the back! The demo finished earlier than advertised, then I just went to the pub afterwards, but had to find a cash dispenser, then an undercover member of the opposition followed me from the pub and started a conversation with me. Eventually, we both went down a side street to pee because there were no toilets, then as I was finishing, *he jumped me from behind and I got a bloody nose*. I hope someone remembers me from that incident. It turned out there was a “spotter” across the road from the pub. I planned to go to the Tower Hamlets march on 03-09-11, but unfortunately someone scheduled an a*rts and crafts course* I’d wanted to do for ages on the same day!


----------



## love detective (Aug 3, 2012)

that's a pisstake surely (a decent one for a change as well)

i suspect johnny favorite's hand in all this - Mr Wilson?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Well the EDL have a Jewish division. I'm guessing that's part of his beef. Would be funny if it turned out to be controlled by Mossad.


 
Half a dozen wingnuts and a supremely unconcerned cat, last time a membership list was leaked.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Half a dozen wingnuts and a supremely unconcerned cat, last time a membership list was leaked.



I think it's the shared platform rather than the amount of subscribers that is the issue.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I think it's the shared platform rather than the amount of subscribers that is the issue.


 
I know, but it speaks to the (lack of) credibility of the EDL that their "division" doesn't have enough members to field a soccer team.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I know, but it speaks to the (lack of) credibility of the EDL that their "division" doesn't have enough members to field a soccer team.



I suppose them cosying up to the sikhs is likely to go down like a glass of chilled vomit with the hardcore fash also.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I suppose them cosying up to the sikhs is likely to go down like a glass of chilled vomit with the hardcore fash also.


 
Saying that, IIRC the NF and BNP have both had on-and-off "fraternal relations" with Hindu and Sikh "nationalists" over here, although the boneheads didn't, as you indicate, approve.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Saying that, IIRC the NF and BNP have both had on-and-off "fraternal relations" with Hindu and Sikh "nationalists" over here, although the boneheads didn't, as you indicate, approve.


the last time i saw sikhs looking for fraternal relations with the nf, blood was shed.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the last time i saw sikhs looking for fraternal relations with the nf, blood was shed.


And very little of it was Sikh, if you're talking about Southall '79.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I know, but it speaks to the (lack of) credibility of the EDL that their "division" doesn't have enough members to field a soccer team.


 

The EDL members are also fans of football and christian imagery so know that Tommy thinks Jesus saves but Pele scores on the rebound.

I'll not even bother with the coat, I'll just leave


----------



## Corax (Aug 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> keighley details. looks like another dry demo and all that that entails. they never learn!
> Revised Keighley demo details August 4th Head to The Commercial pub from 12pm which the police have designated for us to use.BD25HS. Those arriving by train will be escorted to the pub. At 2pm we will head to Church Green where the demo will take place and speeches will be heard.
> 
> AND
> A few going on the train from Leeds they’ll be in spoons by the station from 9.30


Is that a c&p?

Cos they've got the postcode wrong.  I really hope that a dozen of them congregate in the suburbs of North Bradford and wander around looking confused.


----------



## audiotech (Aug 3, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Saying that, IIRC the NF and BNP have both had on-and-off "fraternal relations" with Hindu and Sikh "nationalists" over here, although the boneheads didn't, as you indicate, approve.


 
Remind me, was it the "political soldier" wingnuts of NF who were giving support to the _Nation of Islam, _whilst also giving succour to the Ayatollah's in Iran?


----------



## love detective (Aug 3, 2012)




----------



## audiotech (Aug 3, 2012)

The ^ bowel movement of the future.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 4, 2012)

Corax said:


> Is that a c&p?
> 
> Cos they've got the postcode wrong. I really hope that a dozen of them congregate in the suburbs of North Bradford and wander around looking confused.


yeah direct from the horses ass! they always wander round confused wherever they go - i blame being in 'spoons at 9.30.' crivvens!


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 4, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> And very little of it was Sikh, if you're talking about Southall '79.


 
i think martin 'lux' talks about this in his book - which is very entertaining - but are there any other good antifash sources on southall?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 4, 2012)

You need to have a look for AYM stuff - have a google for Anandi Ramamurthy who archives. writes, talks about this a lot.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 4, 2012)

ah of course, blair peach! am an eejit. the AYM stuff looks great. ive never given much cred to the links between fash and sikhs/jewish extremists/etc. seems a very tiny % and most folk see right through it. Rajinder Singh was the sikh bnp guy. needless to say that went down well.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 4, 2012)

bit of infighting to read before it all goes horribly wrong in keighley
http://twitpic.com/af4140
infidels nf fallouts.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 4, 2012)

interesting article on sdl (redstorm?)
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/cross_fac/iatl/ejournal/issues/bcur2012specialissue/sutherland/


----------



## Favelado (Aug 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> bit of infighting to read before it all goes horribly wrong in keighley
> http://twitpic.com/af4140
> infidels nf fallouts.


 

None of them can write a full sentence. They're better than any parody the left could come up with.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 4, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Remind me, was it the "political soldier" wingnuts of NF who were giving support to the _Nation of Islam, _whilst also giving succour to the Ayatollah's in Iran?


 
Harrington and his fellow _inner sanctum_ members, IIRC.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 4, 2012)

latest EDL
about 100 members of the organisation arrived at Church Green off North Street and were shouting and chanting.Dozens of police officers were at the scene. Mounted police were positioned at one side of the green and officers positioned at other points in the town centre. Members of the EDL were trying to surge through police barriers, and someone let off a firework.
yet another waste of time then!


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 4, 2012)

oh dear. pissed already!
http://yfrog.com/kjoadhjj


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 4, 2012)

2 things on the Walthamstow surrender:

1) Anyone know why I've had tweets all week about a meeting to rally antis to a cancelled demo? I've had no responses.

2nd is funny: A FB twonk told me smugly that the cancellation was all part of a secret plan to fool the antis - a plan so secret that he outlined it on the worlds most populated social network site.

Only 'members' had been told privately by phone that it wasn't on, as was the plan from the start. Apparently. 

Is this a new tactic that hasn't been thought through? (It would alienate anyone not on the database or with wrong data on it, like locals, plus it looks bad anyhow). Was the correspondent lying, or being lied to?

Strong suspicions is the latter as it looks like Cokeboy and friends had other plans for the day. Rather than tell the truth it looks like they wantonly misled the dupes. Perhaps BFP are cut out for more regular politics after all.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 4, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> 2 things on the Walthamstow surrender:
> 
> 1) Anyone know why I've had tweets all week about a meeting to rally antis to a cancelled demo? I've had no responses.
> 
> ...


 
Well, that and them announcing it was was off publicly over a week ago.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 4, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> How long do I have to watch before the Jewish conspiracy is revealed?



1 to 2 mins IIRC, as long as I lasted. If he thinks they're so awful I don't know if he ever explained how that fits with his lifting of the ineffectual ban of bnp member involvement.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 4, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Well, that and them announcing it was was off publicly over a week ago.



Which was about when I had the weird conversation. I really don't think he was pulling my leg.

Any clues on point 1 appreciated.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2012)

tommy misses bristol after being 'tired and emotional', tommy misses keighley cos he wants to go to sweden, tommy cancels walthamstow due to 'prior commitments' (stag do in benidorm suspected), edl numbers sereiously dwindled. has tommy lost heart?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2012)

sweden even smaller than keighley
http://featherfiles.aviary.com/2012-08-05/f77694d11/6471bbf8a02b4291921e43011f20636a_hires.png


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 5, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> sweden even smaller than keighley
> http://featherfiles.aviary.com/2012-08-05/f77694d11/6471bbf8a02b4291921e43011f20636a_hires.png


Nice flatpack Ikea stage, mind.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 6, 2012)

Tommy Speech from Saturday.... needs more dragons and shit


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 6, 2012)

unkle kev karrol's manifesto says he wants and end to hate speech law. and this is why: 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8552065.stm
the british fluffies are collecting for him - odd that he is standing for the edl - and reserve the right to keep all monies raised if they do not reach their target of 5k.


----------



## RedSnail (Aug 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> unkle kev karrol's manifesto says he wants and end to hate speech law. and this is why:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/8552065.stm
> the british fluffies are collecting for him - odd that he is standing for the edl - and reserve the right to keep all monies raised if they do not reach their target of 5k.


 
Bit worrying to be fair. I'm not exactly a fan of anyone chanting "scum" on a demo, but if it is the case that chanting that can get you arrested for hate speech a hell of a lot of protesters on all sides could face problems.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 6, 2012)

agreed monsieur escargot, but one feels there may have been a wee bit of racial subtext in unkle kevs kant!


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2012)

What's wrong with scum?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 6, 2012)

nowt butchers - thats ones a two way insult - 'nartzi scum' and 'unwashed uaf scum.' but unkle kev added the word 'muzzie' apparently.


----------



## krink (Aug 6, 2012)

I love scum


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 6, 2012)

froggy

next build a bonfire will be viewed as incitement to arson, and incitement to murder

dangerous ground with this one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 6, 2012)

froggy

seriously - being charged for chanting "scum" on a demo? wtf? i've sang along to worse things on demos - or was there a racial component to what he said? if so, thats different obviously


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 6, 2012)

krink said:


> I love scum
> 
> View attachment 21893


 
Where's your tool?


----------



## renegadechicken (Aug 6, 2012)

Just seen this
http://imgur.com/a/xKX9n

interesting to see that if they don't get the full 5 grand donation for Kev Carrol to be PCC of bedford they will spend the money on whatever they choose


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 6, 2012)

coke and hookers... ( English ones )


----------



## albionism (Aug 7, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommy Speech from Saturday.... needs more dragons and shit



Sweating all the coke out and wiping it on his slacks @ 6:31


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 7, 2012)

Less WHITE POWER and more WHITE POWDER.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Where's your tool?


what fuckin tool?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2012)

and how can mr tommy claim to be' workin' clarse' when he runs a business or two and how come mr snowy owns a farm? a farm!!!
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/2382/loyalist-thugs-court-shame


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 7, 2012)

Bourgeois and kulaks


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> what fuckin tool?


 
This fuckin' tool (chonks mal on the head with large section of cast iron pipe)!!! 

I'm the daddy now!!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 7, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Bourgeois and kulaks


 
They must be disposed of efficiently, comrade. I suggest a month of occupational therapy at a Proletarian Democracy holiday village.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> and how can mr tommy claim to be' workin' clarse' when he runs a business or two and how come mr snowy owns a farm? a farm!!!
> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/article/2382/loyalist-thugs-court-shame


That should raise allama bells...think snowys pulling the wool over our eyes.....and Tommys always tanning it. ( sniff sniff) Is this a straw man debate...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2012)

The filth and the furry


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> This fuckin' tool (chonks mal on the head with large section of cast iron pipe)!!!
> 
> I'm the daddy now!!!


ouch! (goes to find stuff to put in sock but lacks pool table)


----------



## krink (Aug 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> what fuckin tool?


 
vegetarians? i shit 'em.


----------



## krink (Aug 7, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Where's your tool?


 
Up your fuckin' borstal!


----------



## Favelado (Aug 7, 2012)

So, I'd never looked at his Wikipedia before but it turns out he's the son of immigrants and he has multiple criminal convictions. Surely not the type of person we of pure English blood want over here. He should be deported really.

This made me laugh


> *Assault*
> 
> According to Robinson he was assaulted on 22 December 2011 after pulling over his car as another car flashed its lights at him. He claimed that a group of three men attacked and beat him, being stopped due to the arrival of a 'good samaritan'. Robinson said that the attackers were of Asian appearance, although it has since been claimed that he was attacked by white members of the Luton Migs Football Firm. *A **CT scan revealed a "blemish to the brain" which may or may not have been present before the alleged attack*


 
Sure this is old ground covered elsewhere in the thread. Forgive me.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2012)

ha ha, it was widely circulated that it was nonsense and he had taken a hiding off the soccer team hooligan club 'the men on gear' (MONG) for lording it up on their manor. so say the infidels anyway. he went to the press first to sell the story - which was just before a demo - until is supporters begged him to go to plod. which he did as soon as he sold the story! bletherskite!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 9, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I agree, but this duff info is doing the rounds. Better to put it straight now rather than later.


 
Lo and behold! HNH blog just wondered about the Clever Kev crime record issue. And thanks to you I was confident in telling him not to bother.

ETA: Someone else is at it now, very credible FB anti. Dominoes I expect.

Butch - "a conditional discharge is not a conviction unless the conditions are breached" - I could take your word for it and it seems very plausible but you are 100% on this yep?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 9, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I think each candidate has to cough up £6k so its quite an expensive campaign



It's £5k, but that's before you've printed a single leaflet or any other campaign stuff.

So I expect the virtual begging bowl will have to come out quite a few more times.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 9, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Lo and behold! HNH blog just wondered about the Clever Kev crime record issue. And thanks to you I was confident in telling him not to bother.
> 
> ETA: Someone else is at it now, very credible FB anti. Dominoes I expect.
> 
> Butch - "a conditional discharge is not a conviction unless the conditions are breached" - I could take your word for it and it seems very plausible but you are 100% on this yep?


 
He is. It's a form of binding over where discharge (from the legal system) is conditional on the conditions set by the court (stuff like "commit no further crimes", although CD conditions *can* be specific, such as not associating with certain persons). Fulfill the conditions for a set period, and your case is discharged from the system, with no record left.


----------



## keybored (Aug 11, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> He is. It's a form of binding over where discharge (from the legal system) is conditional on the conditions set by the court (stuff like "commit no further crimes", although CD conditions *can* be specific, such as not associating with certain persons). Fulfill the conditions for a set period, and your case is discharged from the system, with no record left.



Someone should let this guy know.


> Alan Charles, who was Labour's candidate in Derbyshire and vice chair of the region's police authority, became the latest to withdraw on Friday.
> Mr Charles said existing rules barred him from standing for the post because he had received a conditional discharge for a "minor" crime nearly 50 years ago, when he was 14.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19206341


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2012)

He should not be near the job if he doesn't know that if he kept to the terms of his conditional discharge then there is no conviction - i suspect that he didn't keep to those terms and so was convicted. Note he doesn't give any details away whatsoever.


----------



## keybored (Aug 11, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> He should not be near the job if he doesn't know that if he kept to the terms of his conditional discharge then there is no conviction - i suspect that he didn't keep to those terms and so was convicted. Note he doesn't give any details away whatsoever.


What you're saying makes sense, but there seems to be a big deal over it just lately (heard this on the radio last night and remembered this thread). Does it specifically need to be a conviction to exclude someone from the job?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 11, 2012)

Yes, a conviction for an imprisonable offence.


----------



## krink (Aug 11, 2012)

we had a nf protest in my town today in the area i grew up in and still have family there. there was about 30 of them almost entirely from newcastle and a cockney sounding bloke from manchester I think (regional call-out so I heard) and about 70 antis including locals. me and my old school pal had a wander round and had a few up close exchange of insults with them and i was mortified to be called a fat cunt by some master race chap. i wasn't bothered about the 'cunt' but fat? I've never been so offended!!!


----------



## HST (Aug 11, 2012)

krink said:


> we had a nf protest in my town today in the area i grew up in and still have family there. there was about 30 of them almost entirely from newcastle and a cockney sounding bloke from manchester I think (regional call-out so I heard) and about 70 antis including locals. me and my old school pal had a wander round and had a few up close exchange of insults with them and i was mortified to be called a fat cunt by some master race chap. i wasn't bothered about the 'cunt' but fat? I've never been so offended!!!


 
You might like to post your observations to these people - or not - up to you
http://www.antifa.org.uk/contact.html


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 11, 2012)

krink said:


> we had a nf protest in my town today in the area i grew up in and still have family there. there was about 30 of them almost entirely from newcastle and a cockney sounding bloke from manchester I think (regional call-out so I heard) and about 70 antis including locals. me and my old school pal had a wander round and had a few up close exchange of insults with them and i was mortified to be called a fat cunt by some master race chap. i wasn't bothered about the 'cunt' but fat? I've never been so offended!!!


Krink dont worry fellah water off a ducks back..... take it on the chin......any of them.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 11, 2012)

krink said:


> we had a nf protest in my town today in the area i grew up in and still have family there. there was about 30 of them almost entirely from newcastle and a cockney sounding bloke from manchester I think (regional call-out so I heard) and about 70 antis including locals. me and my old school pal had a wander round and had a few up close exchange of insults with them and i was mortified to be called a fat cunt by some master race chap. i wasn't bothered about the 'cunt' but fat? I've never been so offended!!!


Im intrigued by the Manchester connection...any photos mate?


----------



## krink (Aug 11, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Im intrigued by the Manchester connection...any photos mate?


I didn't take any but I'll ask around if anyone else did. We didn't see anyone else close enough to th nf to get pics but we weren't there very long. He had a funnyy accent but it might have been his posh voice as he had the megaphone. Nobhead was saying 'people round here don't want you here" and that's what set me off - none of them cheeky cunts were from sunderland never mind millfield. But it was nice sunny day and I enjoyed meself lol!!


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 11, 2012)

krink said:


> I didn't take any but I'll ask around if anyone else did. We didn't see anyone else close enough to th nf to get pics but we weren't there very long. He had a funnyy accent but it might have been his posh voice as he had the megaphone. Nobhead was saying 'people round here don't want you here" and that's what set me off - none of them cheeky cunts were from sunderland never mind millfield. But it was nice sunny day and I enjoyed meself lol!!


Only person I could think of who fits that description would be Peter Rushton...but unlikely...google his name on images...you may know him anyway. I last heard of him being in the BPP and last saw him when in a million to one chance a couple of years ago while killing a few hours before my train I walked into a room he was setting up for a meeting in a pub near Borough Market. It was in an upstair room where Id been directed by the landlady, I asked her if the football was on and I think she misheard me ...mustve looked the part.....stuck me head round didnt take long to register esp when I asked is the football on and Rushton replied 'no its a nationalist meeting' Stage left and offski quite rapid as my lad was with me...... It hadnt properly started and thankfully jumped into a passing cab...my lad was asking wtf was going on and I only told him when we jumped out over the river near St Pauls and dived into a pub. Rushtons a weird cnut...long thought of as dodgy....All I know is that theres stuff out there that has had both sides thinking he's suss and I have one instance where I went mmmmmmmmmmmm. Leave that for another day.


----------



## HST (Aug 11, 2012)

This geezer? http://www.azarmehr.info/2011/07/islamic-republic-and-peter-rushton.html


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 12, 2012)

HST said:


> This geezer? http://www.azarmehr.info/2011/07/islamic-republic-and-peter-rushton.html


 
He's changed a bit......


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 12, 2012)

I think I have that tie.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 12, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> He's changed a bit......


Thats the meeting I walked in on Fed. In the Kings Arms/Head on the Bermondsey Road. I did a bit of digging about over the next few days and came across the set of photos the BPP had posted. It also transpired Id been seen going in by some well know organisation on the monitoring scene who were completely baffled by my appearance. I kept schtum on this intelligence nugget for a few weeks following advice and heard a few weeks later at a subsequent meeting of these twats at the same venue that they had been ambushed. Sounds familiar?...see first chapter of No Retreat ....None the less whats the odds for that happening. 2,000 boozers in London and I pick the only one holding a Nazi shindig. Half an hour later I might have been in some serious mither....oooh eck.....


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 12, 2012)

HST said:


> This geezer? http://www.azarmehr.info/2011/07/islamic-republic-and-peter-rushton.html


Sorry for this
geezer......diamond......rushton....
coat....!!


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 12, 2012)

Seems to be going well.... lol

still that's £1000 a week for the BFP from fucking idiots.


----------



## HST (Aug 12, 2012)

That'll buy a lot of cider.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Thats the meeting I walked in on Fed. In the Kings Arms/Head on the Bermondsey Road. I did a bit of digging about over the next few days and came across the set of photos the BPP had posted. It also transpired Id been seen going in by some well know organisation on the monitoring scene who were completely baffled by my appearance. I kept schtum on this intelligence nugget for a few weeks following advice and heard a few weeks later at a subsequent meeting of these twats at the same venue that they had been ambushed. Sounds familiar?...see first chapter of No Retreat ....None the less whats the odds for that happening. 2,000 boozers in London and I pick the only one holding a Nazi shindig. Half an hour later I might have been in some serious mither....oooh eck.....


apparently 7000+ pubs in london

http://thelondonpubcrawlco.com/blog/tag/how-many-london-pubs/


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 13, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> apparently 7000+ pubs in london
> 
> http://thelondonpubcrawlco.com/blog/tag/how-many-london-pubs/


Even worse !!....feel sick.....


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 13, 2012)

tempted to chip in the other 3k after playing this.... i would love to see him on the TV and that...


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2012)

krink said:


> I didn't take any but I'll ask around if anyone else did. We didn't see anyone else close enough to th nf to get pics but we weren't there very long. He had a funnyy accent but it might have been his posh voice as he had the megaphone. Nobhead was saying 'people round here don't want you here" and that's what set me off - none of them cheeky cunts were from sunderland never mind millfield. But it was nice sunny day and I enjoyed meself lol!!


 
http://twitpic.com/ai7y9u


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 15, 2012)

Don't recall Rushton having a cockney sounding accent. He is from Tameside /Oldham way isn't he Bignose?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 15, 2012)

Rushton at a meeting in Newcastle in May this year


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 15, 2012)

I definitely don't have that tie.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 15, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Rushton at a meeting in Newcastle in May this year


 


The39thStep said:


> Don't recall Rushton having a cockney sounding accent. He is from Tameside /Oldham way isn't he Bignose?


Yeah right Steps, he's from Ashton u Lyne or at least has been based there for donkeys years. He's got one of those 'affected' voices/accents ( whatever that really means). Thats a scary looking photo....but behind all that pseudo academic stuff lies a bullshitter of the highest order.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 15, 2012)

He looks like the sort of minor public school history teacher who might be quietly asked to "move on (by mutual agreement)" following some unpleasantness or other.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 15, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> He looks like the sort of minor public school history teacher who might be quietly asked to "move on (by mutual agreement)" following some unpleasantness or other.


 Look at the class act ASDA bag in the background.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 15, 2012)

"The cling film stays on till you've listened to all the speeches" - very Depression-era!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 15, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Look at the class act ASDA bag in the background.


He definitely has the air of someone who rummages around in George looking for back-to-school bargains.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 15, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> He definitely has the air of someone who rummages around in George looking for back-to-school bargains.


People have PM'd me about the incident which sent a few alarm bells ringing with this twat. Who deserves no mercy from me(its personal ) following his fuckwit predicatble review of NR. (though lame compared to RA/IWCA) Once/if I get the all clear Ill reveal all.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 15, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> "The cling film stays on till you've listened to all the speeches" - very Depression-era!


 Those sandwiches will probably end up like jilted  Miss Havershams dining table tucker...he's such a long winded twat


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> He looks like the sort of minor public school history teacher who might be quietly asked to "move on (by mutual agreement)" following some unpleasantness or other.


 
hey up!
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/extent_and_cost_of_recent_polici#incoming-302926


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2012)

overtime central!
23 other Forces:
British Transport Police, Staffordshire Police, South Yorkshire Police,
West Midlands Police, Dyfed Powys police, Greater Manchester Police,
Surrey Police, Nottinghamshire Police, Northamptonshire Police, Derbyshire
Police, Leicestershire Police, Wiltshire Police, Gloucestershire
Constabulary, South Wales Police, City of London Police, Lincolnshire
police, North Wales Police, Devon and Cornwall Police,

Dorset Police, West Mercia Police, Gwent Police, Hampshire Constabulary,
Sussex  Police.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2012)

chelmo demo details. whats the bets on numbers turning up and arrests? 'we go where we want when we want? course you do! - 'After a long week of negotiations details have been finalised.'  Wrong! 
CHELMSFORD DEMO 18TH AUG 2012
After a long week of negotiations details have been finalised. Everybody arriving by car please make your way to Chelmsford Market Multi Storey Carpark ( directions available on request) Please try to arrive before 12.00, you will then be directed to the muster point. People arriving by train should aim to arrive at chelmsford station before 12.00 where you will be met by stewards and directed to the muster point. The main muster point will be The Wheatcheaf Pub, New Street, Chelmsford. Everyone needs to be there by 12.00 – 12.30. At 13.00 the march will start, leaving the Wheatsheaf, turning left into Victoria Road, at the end of Victoria Road we will turn Left into Duke street, then right into Victoria road South, then left into Market road. The speeches will then be held outside County Hall. At around 3.30 – 4.00pm we will be escorted back and dispersed. Hope to see you all there…..we are the people and we will never surrender.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 19, 2012)




----------



## ddraig (Aug 19, 2012)

oh ffs


----------



## friedaweed (Aug 19, 2012)

I was in Hebden Bridge yesterday and a handful of 3.8% ABV Warriors were holding court outside the Shoulder of Mutton. Apparently its a weekly occurrence now. They come down from Halifax, have a few scoops, shout "E E EDL!" and then go home before their mum's call them in for tea
It's such a diverse and slightly bonkers place that having a handful of fash and three coppers made it such a wonderful day out. 
Well done the EDL.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 19, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




How embarrasing. Goebbels will be rolling in his grave, lol.

So, the moral of this "amazing" story is what? That racists abuse sheep (or llamas) or harrass little boys or something (like certain founders of the EDl)?

Maybe I'm thick but why did the "good" people give the little boy their things? I don't get it. I mean, come on, it's not a good story is it.

Is this video part of the freedom parties surreal discount back to school bundle? Oh dear, it's more cryptic than creationism. the sick bastards...


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 19, 2012)

The above video has been uploaded onto youtube by a so called helen Pring. If you check out the account there are about a dozen or so other videos, some with 70's NF style racist content about immigrant benefit scroungers and how they take all the social housing. See the Olympic video. Very poor stuff.

Can the account be removed by Youtube?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 19, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> I was in Hebden Bridge yesterday and a handful of 3.8% ABV Warriors were holding court outside the Shoulder of Mutton. Apparently its a weekly occurrence now. They come down from Halifax, have a few scoops, shout "E E EDL!" and then go home before their mum's call them in for tea
> It's such a diverse and slightly bonkers place that having a handful of fash and three coppers made it such a wonderful day out.
> Well done the EDL.


 
I think a lot of them are from Todmorden and the smaller towns around Halifax, not many are from Hebden Bridge. Some of them are names and faces I recognise from the shitty little micro-groups on the far right in west yorkshire in days gone by, like White Nationalist Party, Britihs People's Party, British Movement and so on. I'm not sure if they're even involved in the proper EDL or whether they're in with the infidels lot, or just some random far right cranks wanting to go to Hebden Bridge to go shopping in the new age hippy shops on a weekend.


----------



## krink (Aug 19, 2012)

Just a whisper I heard but the reason the North east NF facebook page has gone is because they are now something called the northern patriotic front. don't know if Biggs is still running it but it seems to be at least affiliated with the NF.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 20, 2012)

krink said:


> Just a whisper I heard but the reason the North east NF facebook page has gone is because they are now something called the northern patriotic front. don't know if Biggs is still running it but it seems to be at least affiliated with the NF.


 
Lol............


----------



## krink (Aug 20, 2012)

yep, that's pretty much the conversation that i heard


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 20, 2012)

it seems the nf and north east infidullards are pretty cosy - and watmoughs been up there too.


----------



## krink (Aug 20, 2012)

that lad pinkham or pinkman or whatever he was here the other week with the nf. it loks like a nf/infidels/cxf grouplet. they'd have nowhere near enough numbers on their own to even match the tiny left groups up here.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 20, 2012)

krink said:


> that lad pinkham or pinkman or whatever he was here the other week with the nf. it loks like a nf/infidels/cxf grouplet. they'd have nowhere near enough numbers on their own to even match the tiny left groups up here.


 Liam 'Paedo' Pinkham.....


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 20, 2012)

Piss funny

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/2103/tommys-troubles


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 20, 2012)

*No idea why this was sent to me (or why the font is the way it is from C&P) but anyhow...*
* Important: Joint Statement From Propaganda And Logic Divisions

Patriots : The staggering size of the Chelmsford demo presents us with a historic opportunity.

For some months our progress has been so good that we don't feel the need to get pre-demo attention by saying our leader has been assassinated.

It's often been said before, but this is our time!

If our next demo is as big as the one before yesterday it mean a growth rate of perhaps 500%!

The Legendary Tony Curtis (phd Maths) confirmed to us that compound growth rates mean the entire world could be EDL in a couple of years.

Merchandise Division are now on standby to place an order for 7 billion face masks.

Just think - No more muslims or leftards!!

All around we see the signs of inevitable victory!

Cultural Marxists (tm) pretend to find the Chelmsford demo funny - It just proves how scared they are.

And Muslims now routinely pretend we hardly exist at all: Unspeakable evil!

We must spur ourselves on to hate them even more.

Sadly, The Infallible Prophet Of Nationalism has re-occurring symptoms of a bad cold.

Meanwhile, Kevin is rehearsing his title role in a major touring production of King Lear*

However, they both asked to pass on sincere thanks to all those who made it a great event by waving flags, shouting and singing songs about how good the EDL are and how bad muslims are.

Special thanks go to the admin of the regional Facebook page (too modest to be named). His vibrant charisma and herculean organising skills were key to a great triumph. It's an achievement even greater than teaming up with friends to aggressively harass a female worker in a fast food outlet.

Our leading lights wish to apologise if anyone high up ever misled him about why a demo was cancelled, using a silly made up reason he was loyal enough to believe.

Someday your grandchildren will ask where you were on the day of the Chelmsford demo! They will be so proud of you when you tell them.

Thank you once again and never forget: If you ever have a quiet moment, you can always serve the spirit of Albion by thinking about muslims having sex with children.

-----statement ends--------

(Supporters are asked to stand and sing a celebration verse of the infectious classic "Coming Down The Road")
-----------------------------

* Kev has kindly offered to arrange a £5 ticket reduction if you donate just £100 to his campaign to be elected Police Commissioner.

Though EDL supporters will know the piece well through love of our culture, this is a must-see production: Kev has built one of his championship level Northumbrian pipe performances in to the plot, and gives his personal guarantee that each cast member is certified non muslim and equipped with bacon underwear.*


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 20, 2012)

don't give up the day job, unless the day job involves the use of humour in which case, best hand your notice in before you get sacked.


----------



## krink (Aug 20, 2012)

EDITED so I can read it on this screen:​No idea why this was sent to me (or why the font is the way it is from C&P) but anyhow...​ Important: Joint Statement From Propaganda And Logic Divisions​​SNIP - now I wish I hadn't bothered​


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 22, 2012)

Someone mentioned Hebdon Bridge in an earlier post. There's a video.

Gotta admire the man who faces off about 10 or more EDl knobheads on his own in this stupidly named video. If this guy had had only 2 more like himself there, the EDl would not have been so "brave". Even when the guy in the cap, who is trying to calm it all down, turns round, they all stop following and walk away and he isn't mouthing them or anything. Just goes to show their true cowardly colours.

Where's the back up for this guy?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 23, 2012)

this is the 2nd time they've appeared at the bridge. its fuck all tho. they think they are 'taking liberties' but anyone can turn up anywhere unannounced for half an hour, film it and then tell everyone what a great victory it is. what did it achieve? nothing. they are now no more than an irritant who are desperate for any kind of publicity as they have come to an end. someone elsewhere said' what is their endgame'? well, for the rank and file its ego trips, alco-juice and bragging rights.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 23, 2012)

up a bit late, but up

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...mming-in-same-cesspool-as-a-mass-killer-again

Can't link and prob wouldn't, but on the BFP facebook page 'The Real English Defence League' have kept up some polite prodding on the Kev money stuff.

Elsewise there's just been dribble on a Norwich anti page. We are down to almost meaningless numbers of folk who may not be very well. Seen murmers that it should end from seeming stalwarts. Will the laughter die down and some new menace emerge?


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

i can sympathise with the man in the video but i think his behaviour didn`t really achieve much, in fact he was very aggressive, surely it would have been better for him to have defeated them in a debate rather than screaming in a busy  town centre?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2012)

joyce said:


> i can sympathise with the man in the video but i think his behaviour didn`t really achieve much, in fact he was very aggressive, surely it would have been better for him to have defeated them in a debate rather than screaming in a busy town centre?


It doesn't matter either way. See many debaters on the edl side?

I hope your short stay is worth the bother of signing up.


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It doesn't matter either way. See many debaters on the edl side?
> 
> I hope your short stay is worth the bother of signing up.


i live near hebden bridge it`s a peaceful town, and some of us wish to keep it that way, last thing we need is confrontations of this nature,Hebden is a brilliant place and a tolerant area, and we have an art scene, we do not want it turned into a war zone, if people don`t agree on politics then surely they should present themselves in a civil manner rather than fighting in the streets, the lower calder valley has much scenic beauty, including the craggs and the canal walk, which has attracted tourists to the area, scenes of people fighting in the streets can only cause damage to the region


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2012)

Fat blokes in leeds tops?


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Fat blokes in leeds tops?


 i can`t comment on that, in fact it looks like a football rivalry, but it`s not going do the town any justice, if they want to fight, then they should do it elsewhere.  Hebden Bridge is a liberal place, not a political extremist place, hopefully this will be the final incident, we have had enough trouble with severe floods this years which has resulted in thousands of pounds worth of damage being inflicted on the lower calder valley, we don`t want any more negative publicity.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 23, 2012)

Then maybe you should tell the bone heads with EDL flags draped over their shoulders to fuck off somewhere else?


----------



## articul8 (Aug 23, 2012)

Looks like a dingles' day out...



> we have an arts scene


 

If only they'd thought have that in the Weimar period


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Then maybe you should tell the bone heads with EDL flags draped over their shoulders to fuck off somewhere else?


 i agree, they are not wanted in hebden bridge, their presence can only cause damage, but i don`t think pitched battles in street is going to benefit hebden,


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 23, 2012)

Then the liberals of Hebden Bridge should tell them they're not welcome. Maybe burn their flags?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Then the liberals of Hebden Bridge should tell them they're not welcome. Maybe burn their flags?


take their buns


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2012)

terrify them with some close harmony singing.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 23, 2012)

lol


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2012)

joyce said:


> i live near hebden bridge it`s a peaceful town, and some of us wish to keep it that way, last thing we need is confrontations of this nature,Hebden is a brilliant place and a tolerant area, and we have an art scene, we do not want it turned into a war zone, if people don`t agree on politics then surely they should present themselves in a civil manner rather than fighting in the streets, the lower calder valley has much scenic beauty, including the craggs and the canal walk, which has attracted tourists to the area, scenes of people fighting in the streets can only cause damage to the region


there's scope there for a big art project. perhaps based round half bricks and broken glass.


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Then the liberals of Hebden Bridge should tell them they're not welcome. Maybe burn their flags?


 you really need to research the history of hebden bridge, how it transformed from an industrial town to a near derelict town, to an affluent area, this was achieved by locals planting trees in the area and creating a beautiful calder valley, and the local mills being put as listed buildings, which eventually emerged into apartments, and are now worth money, alot of the population in hebden bridge have moved into hebden from other areas, the south of England in particular, this is what makes Hebden Bridge a brilliant place to live, Hebden is not a violent town like the more historic Halifax or the nearby town of Tod, but in Hebden we take pride in being tolerant and hopefully it will remain as so


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> there's scope there for a big art project. perhaps based round half bricks and broken glass.


 we have art galleries in hebden, and local artists that paint landscapes, and some people visit Hebden to paint the local scenes


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2012)

joyce said:


> we have art galleries in hebden, and local artists that paint landscapes, and some people visit Hebden to paint the local scenes


so no street performance art then


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 23, 2012)

Maybe the well off locals need to focus some effort into kicking out the racist EDL? Violence sticks like shit where ever they go.


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> so no street performance art then


 yes we have street performance art, in fact heptonstall does a St George`s day festival with street theatre, this is to illustrate that you can celebrate without being racist!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2012)

joyce said:


> yes we have street performance art, in fact heptonstall does a St George`s day festival with street theatre, this is to illustrate that you can celebrate without being racist!!


yes. now, do you ever have challenging and innovative street theatre?


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> yes. now, do you ever have challenging and innovative street theatre?


 if you are suggesting violence then the answer is no, most of us are interested in painting and theatre, this is considered as art, please google some of the local art scene before you pass judgement on us


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2012)

joyce said:


> if you are suggesting violence then the answer is no, most of us are interested in painting and theatre, this is considered as art, please google some of the local art scene before you pass judgement on us


What pub was that joyce?


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What pub was that joyce?


there are local art galleries, the  council in the local council offices display art work by local painters, I am not aware of art being displayed in local pubs, but previously some pub owners have displayed paintings, Halifax square chapel has a theatre scene for artists, there are plenty places in calderdale for artists,


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2012)

joyce said:


> there are local art galleries, the council in the local council offices display art work by local painters, I am not aware of art being displayed in local pubs, but previously some pub owners have displayed paintings, Halifax square chapel has a theatre scene for artists, there are plenty places in calderdale for artists,


What pub was in  the video?


----------



## joyce (Aug 23, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What pub was in the video?


 shoulder of mutton in the background, it`s ben badly flooded, there`s alot of damage in the entrance, some of the floorboards are near collapsing


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2012)

ta


----------



## Favelado (Aug 23, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> yes. now, do you ever have challenging and innovative street theatre?


 
Legs Akimbo.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2012)

Favelado said:


> Legs Akimbo.


you're thinking of legs & co


----------



## Joe Reilly (Aug 23, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> People have PM'd me about the incident which sent a few alarm bells ringing with this twat. Who deserves no mercy from me(its personal ) following his fuckwit predicatble review of NR. (though lame compared to RA/IWCA) Once/if I get the all clear Ill reveal all.


 
When someone dosen't tell howlers as a matter of routine its not that important to have a good memory. Conversely...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 23, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> you're thinking of legs & co





No he means


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 23, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> No he means



oh dear


----------



## fiannanahalba (Aug 24, 2012)

Hebdens a shithole.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 24, 2012)

Joe Reilly said:


> When someone dosen't tell howlers as a matter of routine its not that important to have a good memory. Conversely...


I thought when Id mentioned fuckwits you'd appear....


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 24, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> up a bit late, but up
> 
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...mming-in-same-cesspool-as-a-mass-killer-again
> 
> ...


 
taff, wonder how this relates to the thread on griffin and edl run by the 'joos' on the other thread. 
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/what-now-for-the-bnp.287021/page-25#post-11463024
they cant manage more than a couple of hundred at a national demo, the flash demos are all they have left. what next for them?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 24, 2012)

sorry, but this just made me laugh!


----------



## Gingerman (Aug 24, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...midation-campaign-against-woman-and-her-child
What a fucking charmer


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 24, 2012)

Why do they say "the woman who is seeking shelter from a violent ex partner and her young daughter"? Have i missed something in those shots?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 24, 2012)

joyce said:


> i live near hebden bridge it`s a peaceful town, and some of us wish to keep it that way, last thing we need is confrontations of this nature,Hebden is a brilliant place and a tolerant area, and we have an art scene, we do not want it turned into a war zone, if people don`t agree on politics then surely they should present themselves in a civil manner rather than fighting in the streets, the lower calder valley has much scenic beauty, including the craggs and the canal walk, which has attracted tourists to the area, scenes of people fighting in the streets can only cause damage to the region


 
Joyce, with the best of intentions, these people aren't going to just disappear y'know. You're gonna have to deal with it instead of just wringing your hands and hoping they'll go somewhere scruffy like halifax instead.

I know the history of Hebden Bridge very well, and I know a lot of people who grew up there in the 70's and 80's and got forced out by the wealthy incomers buying up all the houses and turning it into an incestuous gentrified little bubble. I remember when they chopped down a valley of pristine woodland, that had been used for centuries by people in the village, to build a load of "eco-homes" for wealthy people from the south-east. If I had a pound for every time I saw some millionaire stockbroker, who's burnt out at 35 and decided to get a big house in the country, swanning about Hebden like they own the place, I'd be rich enough to live there myself. Frankly, the vast bulk of the people I know from Hebden are wealthy and couldn't care less what happens outside their little valley.

I also resent this notion that Hebden was some culturally bereft backwater that was colonised by those kind helpful middle-class people, because even though it was a grim place to live (still is imo) they had a very strong culture, except it was a working class culture, not a middle-class art galleries and new ages shops.

It's an awful place to live anyway. You're trapped in a valley in the pennines, it rains 300 days of the year at least, you never see the bloody sun, you can't go to the shop or to the pub without having to walk up some everest-like ridiculous hill. Frankly if you've not got a car, you're totally trapped, if you're not fit enough to walk hills or mountain bike you're trapped, in general it's like being in the most pristine and beautiful prison in the world.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 24, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> taff, wonder how this relates to the thread on griffin and edl run by the 'joos' on the other thread.
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/what-now-for-the-bnp.287021/page-25#post-11463024
> they cant manage more than a couple of hundred at a national demo, the flash demos are all they have left. what next for them?



What next? I dunno who currently has access to the U75 crystal ball and tarot deck but I think there are 2 ways to pull that really do not sit as well together as they might.

1 is "anti jihad" which really needn't be racist and bigoted but just happens to be. This is seen as global, and kind of is. But broken down to national levels for organising reasons (and stuff like language) it falls prey to far rightists.

The other is general neo fascism, posturing inevitably as "post fascist". 

How that manifests in this country is hard to say. I think the EDL and post EDL rabbles will stagger along a while yet. They are too wrapped up in their own deeds and 'thoughts' to see it's a dead end.

Likewise the different small parties (even the BNP are back to "small" from a while at medium size) will continue without much progress.

For systemic and possibly cultural / other reasons they don't do as well as European counterparts.

So the cliche, but probably well founded answer could be to watch UKIP.

Butchers ripped me a lot before the last Euros for stating a preference for UKIP votes over the BNP. I have shifted, though perhaps not to his view - There is nothing inherent in the desire to leave the EU that requires any kind of bigotry and I have no reason to think there are plenty of UKIP members and supporters who aint racist.

Even on migration they are less hypocritical than Labour and tories, who spout they will "deal" with it while most migration is within the EU and they can't or won't (we'll see what Bumface comes up with in terms of re negotiating. It may be an increasingly necessary card for  him to play as other things continue downhill)

So I do not join with some in denouncing UKIP as bigots per se. I look for evidence to cite, and it usually doesn't take long. Then look to how it is dealt with (It took quite a bit of noise from antis before the odious Gandy was hoofed)

UKIP have ££££ and growing support. But Party politics is on it's arse in participation terms - they have scant structure, especially in the north I suspect. 

If/when racists see UKIP as the least worst vehicle for their purpose do UKIP rank/file and low level managers (presumably amateurs) have the political brains to recognise it or the will to deal with it?

My guess is generally "no". There needs to be more systemic monitoring and challenging, just as there has been superb such work on BNP / EDL.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 24, 2012)

Where?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 24, 2012)

The UKIP are to the right of the Tories. Are you completely mad?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 24, 2012)

yeah delroy but that lovely wee canal boat trip is thoroughly gorgeous!


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 24, 2012)

'I think the EDL and post EDL rabbles will stagger along a while yet. They are too wrapped up in their own deeds and 'thoughts' to see it's a dead end.'
yeah that about sums em up taff! they are convinced they are 'doing summat.' like at hebden. it always was a piss up really!C


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 24, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Joyce, with the best of intentions, these people aren't going to just disappear y'know. You're gonna have to deal with it instead of just wringing your hands and hoping they'll go somewhere scruffy like halifax instead.
> 
> I know the history of Hebden Bridge very well, and I know a lot of people who grew up there in the 70's and 80's and got forced out by the wealthy incomers buying up all the houses and turning it into an incestuous gentrified little bubble. I remember when they chopped down a valley of pristine woodland, that had been used for centuries by people in the village, to build a load of "eco-homes" for wealthy people from the south-east. If I had a pound for every time I saw some millionaire stockbroker, who's burnt out at 35 and decided to get a big house in the country, swanning about Hebden like they own the place, I'd be rich enough to live there myself. Frankly, the vast bulk of the people I know from Hebden are wealthy and couldn't care less what happens outside their little valley.
> 
> ...


 
"This message was brought to you by the Kirklees Tourist Board"


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 24, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> "This message was brought to you by the Kirklees Tourist Board"


 
Calderdale mate.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 24, 2012)

TBF it's all much of a muchness to us down here in the civilised South 

Oh, but thanks for taking our overprivileged downsizers off our hands, though


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 24, 2012)

So Kev made the 5k needed to stand as Robo Cop.... let the funnies begin....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 24, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> So Kev made the 5k needed to stand as Robo Cop.... let the funnies begin....


That should buy a decent quantity of coke campaign literature


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 25, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> That should buy a decent quantity of coke campaign literature



£5k is for deposit. Propaganda and exotic plant derivatives are extra. Separate begging bowl to presumably follow.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> 'I think the EDL and post EDL rabbles will stagger along a while yet. They are too wrapped up in their own deeds and 'thoughts' to see it's a dead end.'
> yeah that about sums em up taff! they are convinced they are 'doing summat.' like at hebden. it always was a piss up really!C



The Hebden thing sounded dismal. But they can't seem to distinguish it from something more akin to the Munich Putsch (sorry... NOT fascists, still less nazis) I still find such reality/mental gaps compelling.

Only just got going on the Collins book, he's det in describing it.

Butchers - 'where?' I can understand if you don't care to look, but there's barley a tweet, post or media mention that aint been logged and put up somewhere by someone, mostly autonomous but co operative in collation very often.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> The UKIP are to the right of the Tories. Are you completely mad?



I didn't say they weren't, but there is a great deal of madness around.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> £5k is for deposit. Propaganda and exotic plant derivatives are extra. Separate begging bowl to presumably follow.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 25, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Butchers - 'where?' I can understand if you don't care to look, but there's barley a tweet, post or media mention that aint been logged and put up somewhere by someone, mostly autonomous but co operative in collation very often.





> My guess is generally "no". There needs to be more systemic monitoring and challenging, just as there has been superb such work on BNP / EDL.


 
Where?


----------



## Part 2 (Aug 26, 2012)

joyce said:


> there are local art galleries, the council in the local council offices display art work by local painters, I am not aware of art being displayed in local pubs, but previously some pub owners have displayed paintings, Halifax square chapel has a theatre scene for artists, there are plenty places in calderdale for artists,


 
The fella with a the Leeds top on is an artist.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 27, 2012)

oh dear, what will unkle kev say about this one? 
http://twitpic.com/ao78z0


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 27, 2012)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...nders-Breivik-siryou-did-the-right-thing.html

*Breivik, sir... you did the right thing*


----------



## barney_pig (Aug 27, 2012)

Coupla years back, the edl came to reading to leaflet, in preparation for their demo here. About 15 or so dominating the town centre for a couple of hours until the pubs opened.
This Saturday during the festival the edl were back. Two of them, one old fascist, and a somewhat gimpy kid, I was under strict orders from the better half, and wasn't able to debate with them, but they were being very popular, at least people were queuing up to 'chat'.


----------



## junglevip (Aug 27, 2012)

Can someone tell me please what is so fascinating about watching the edl?  I haven't really time to read the 300+ pages and it seems like they dont do very much anyway.

Thanks,

JV


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 27, 2012)

Don Southworth Salford BNP/EDL Dont tell me he aint go no ethnic in him


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 27, 2012)

Asbestos Pants there played by Sir Anthony Hopkins, I see.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 27, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...nders-Breivik-siryou-did-the-right-thing.html
> 
> *Breivik, sir... you did the right thing*


 
Incredible. The depths of depravity. An EDl Breivik apologist. I'd love to meet him face on.
I tried to embed the video here but no go. Can anyone do it?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 27, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Incredible. The depths of depravity. An EDl Breivik apologist. I'd love to meet him face on.
> I tried to embed the video here but no go. Can anyone do it?


 
It's the sort of thing you can hear people saying all over the place do you live in a bubble?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 27, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> I tried to embed the video here but no go. Can anyone do it?


 
Would need to be on youtube I think. I checked the Sun's youtube channel and it doesn't appear to be on there.

http://www.youtube.com/user/thesunnewspaper/videos?view=0


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 27, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> It's the sort of thing you can hear people saying all over the place do you live in a bubble?


 
In Spain there are less sick in the head people. So, what has your reaction been when you've heard all this, all over the place?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 27, 2012)

Can anyone else vouch for this being widespread?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 27, 2012)

Never once heard anyone say, anything like "he had the right idea but maybe just went about it wrong" ie he should have shot brown kids..... And if you hear that all the time you hang about with the wrong people


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 27, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> So, what has your reaction been when you've heard all this, all over the place?


 
Firebomb their pubs.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 27, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Never once heard anyone say, anything like "he had the right idea but maybe just went about it wrong" ie he should have shot brown kids..... And if you hear that all the time you hang about with the wrong people


 
Epsom


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 28, 2012)

You fucking love it.


----------



## LLETSA (Aug 28, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Can anyone else vouch for this being widespread?


 
I hear similar nearly every day at work. Mostly people are just fucking around, but some do mean it.


----------



## LLETSA (Aug 28, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Never once heard anyone say, anything like "he had the right idea but maybe just went about it wrong" ie he should have shot brown kids..... And if you hear that all the time you hang about with the wrong people


 


Or maybe you just have to live in the world as it is.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 28, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> In Spain there are less sick in the head people. /?


 
Yep that's right there's no racists in Spain.


----------



## LLETSA (Aug 28, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Yep that's right there's no racists in Spain.


 


Just ask Shaun Wright-Phillips.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 28, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Epsom


Definitely mad funker.


----------



## salfordexile (Aug 28, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Don Southworth Salford BNP/EDL Dont tell me he aint go no ethnic in himView attachment 22471


 
His mam is colombian. Hes a very confused man indeed


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 28, 2012)

LLETSA said:


> Just ask Shaun Wright-Phillips.



Or Mark Thatcher.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 28, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...32405718.45467.170875669635671&type=1&theater


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 28, 2012)

LLETSA said:


> Or maybe you just have to live in the world as it is.


 
That's asking a bit too much of some posters on here


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 28, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...32405718.45467.170875669635671&type=1&theater


 
There is a megaphone going cheap on that facebook page


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 29, 2012)

salfordexile said:


> His mam is colombian. Hes a very confused man indeed


----------



## barney_pig (Aug 29, 2012)

salfordexile said:


> His mam is colombian. Hes a very confused man indeed


popular with tommy though


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 29, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> popular with tommy though


Because of, rather than despite, the colombian connection


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 29, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Don Southworth Salford BNP/EDL Dont tell me he aint go no ethnic in himView attachment 22471


 
Dunno about that. I'm as dark as that, on occasion.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 29, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> Dunno about that. I'm as dark as that, on occasion.


Actually was being a bit of a devils adocate.....its just that he's referred to privately amongst some of his BNP chums as 'the p**i.' In the wake of his recent racist rants on Facemuck, maybe he ought to be a bit more circumspect considering what his racial comrades are calling him behind his back.....


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 29, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/kevcarrollppc

Politician
Kevin Carroll is co-Vice Chair of British Freedom and co-founder of the EDL. Support his campaign to become Police and Crime Commissioner for Bedfordshire.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 29, 2012)

no surrender
http://twitpic.com/aoewsc
and even more not surrendering!
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/2114/the-nutzis-are-falling-out
schadenfreude! and im not much of a schadanfreudian either.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2012)

so the EDL like brevik who kills kids but not people who have sex with kids (pedos). is this a bit arse backwards?


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 31, 2012)

malatesta32 said:
			
		

> so the EDL like brevik who kills kids but not people who have sex with kids (pedos). is this a bit arse backwards?



Maybe it's OK to shag Marxist kids?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 31, 2012)

*we do not 'go where we want when we want!'*
'The police liasion is complete ...Please do not march with open containers of alcohol , or sing racist or inappropriate songs...You will not be allowed to leave the enclosure , until the demo is over. It`s a nice site , but has no facilities nearby...we have asked for toilets ... At 1600hrs after the demo , a police escort will take everyone back to Blackhorse Rd Stn.'

*Absolutely deluded fuck bugles! *


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 31, 2012)

and up here in dundee, SDL 
'i can say is that there will be a muster point and then we will walk to a public site where we will hold a 45-minute static demonstration,'' Mr Walker said. ''Then we walk back to the buses and leave the city. It will be done and dusted as quickly as that.''
that sounds like a quick exit. or a surrender.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 31, 2012)

and finally, asre of the week. sticks pigs head on mosque, goes home to brag on facebook, then jailed. a super-eejit and bugle par excellence! 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-19423334


----------



## treelover (Aug 31, 2012)

joyce said:


> you really need to research the history of hebden bridge, how it transformed from an industrial town to a near derelict town, to an affluent area, this was achieved by locals planting trees in the area and creating a beautiful calder valley, and the local mills being put as listed buildings, which eventually emerged into apartments, and are now worth money, alot of the population in hebden bridge have moved into hebden from other areas, the south of England in particular, this is what makes Hebden Bridge a brilliant place to live, Hebden is not a violent town like the more historic Halifax or the nearby town of Tod, but in Hebden we take pride in being tolerant and hopefully it will remain as so


 
a short history of gentrification....


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2012)

joyce said:


> you really need to research the history of hebden bridge, how it transformed from an industrial town to a near derelict town, to an affluent area, this was achieved by locals planting trees in the area and creating a beautiful calder valley, and the local mills being put as listed buildings, which eventually emerged into apartments, and are now worth money, alot of the population in hebden bridge have moved into hebden from other areas, the south of England in particular, this is what makes Hebden Bridge a brilliant place to live, Hebden is not a violent town like the more historic Halifax or the nearby town of Tod, but in Hebden we take pride in being tolerant and hopefully it will remain as so


i can't help thinking that in the transformation from an industrial town to an affluent area something's been lost. perhaps the industrial population. frankly it's like one of those auld westerns where the hero comes to save a town too scared to fight. only there's no hero in this one because in a plot twist from the magnificent seven, the hebdenites don't want anyone to help them out.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 31, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/appotd


----------



## weepiper (Aug 31, 2012)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-as-demonstration-rallying-point-8099812.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

EDL etc have proved themselves to be a scab organisation, having attacked railway workers previously and opposed occupy, trade unions and the anti-cuts marches. good on kings x workers!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

also
'EDL leader Stephen Yaxley-Lennon did not respond to requests for comment.'
he has been keeping a very low profile and has missed the last few 'national' marches.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

brilliant!
http://twitpic.com/ajbl8n


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

they aint even set off yet, already pissed, 2 arrests and fighting with each other! so much for no alcohol, theyre meeting at the dolphin behind camden town hall.

edit: make that 4 arrests.


----------



## cesare (Sep 1, 2012)

Brian Whelan's following this with his camera  

Twitter @brianwhelanhack

OB have directed them to Euston, I suppose in case the ticket hall staff etc at Kings Cross did what they threatened and down tools.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

will they make it that far? its almost 5 minutes walk?


----------



## cesare (Sep 1, 2012)

Heh 

Brian's posted a bit of live footage.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

edl 500 tops, 3 times as many opposing. grand!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

even plod says 3,000 antifascists!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

yet again not going where we want etc
Police will march the EDL straight up Forest Road away from Walthamstow Town centre. This is a slight change to what they originally planned.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 1, 2012)

have they taken liberties yet?


----------



## Dan U (Sep 1, 2012)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2012)

[QUOTE]*  Socialist Worker* ‏@*socialistworker* 
Sit-down protest by We Are Waltham Forest demonstrators blocks route of EDL march http://pic.twitter.com/tczpLhPg (via @*kenolende*)
[/QUOTE]


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2012)

> *Rachel Harger* ‏@*RachelHarger*
> There's youths wanting to rush the police lines to get to the EDL. The only protection the EDL have is lined of police. #*wearewalthamforest*


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2012)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2012)

> *Nelson Pereira* ‏@*noslenp*
> EDL currently surrounded by anti fascists and locals. #*edl* #*walthamstow* # #*wearewalthamforest* http://instagr.am/p/PCT_-ujBgw/


 
Message from pal who is there today:


> Not much happening. We broke through the kettle and riot police are now effectively protecting the fascists who are now packing up. Party over.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2012)

> *Dawn Foster* ‏@*DawnHFoster*
> Oh no! Someone's edited EDL bellend Tommy Robinson's Wikipedia page. (HT @*joshweller*) http://pic.twitter.com/D0xc8Yvu


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2012)




----------



## _angel_ (Sep 1, 2012)

utube links/facebook screen grabs


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2012)

Just got in, all in all not a good day for them then


----------



## harpo (Sep 1, 2012)

No they were massively outnumbered.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 1, 2012)

looks like Brian Whelan got a bit of a slap

*Brian Whelan* ‏@*brianwhelanhack* 
So @*EDLTrobinson* watched from the back seat of his car as his thug mates got out and attacked an NUJ member.

*Brian Whelan* ‏@*brianwhelanhack* 
Had can of beer thrown at my head point blank, theb they tried to smash my camera lens, tommy and Kev both in the car.

*Brian Whelan* ‏@*brianwhelanhack* 
Reported assault to police, two photographers saw attack - they won't make arrest until after demo

*Brian Whelan* ‏@*brianwhelanhack* 
Just been assaulted by tommy robinson's driver, have it all on video


----------



## treelover (Sep 1, 2012)

1000's of protesters, etc, shame a few more of them could of bothered to attend the ATOS protests

Yes, I know some of them will have, but it shows the priorities of the left, etc in this country..

over 1000 people have died since their ATOS medicals..


----------



## harpo (Sep 1, 2012)

Some people round here have union jacks in the window from street parties and the like, they are not fash.  My neighbour has just has a plank of wood thrown at her window.  Not good.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 1, 2012)

harpo said:


> Some people round here have union jacks in the window from street parties and the like, they are not fash. My neighbour has just has a plank of wood thrown at her window. Not good.


 
that is fucking shit


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2012)

The left the left the left... maybe some people just don't like racist cunts?


----------



## harpo (Sep 1, 2012)

Dan U said:


> that is fucking shit


I know.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

3,000 anti says plod!!! about 250 EDl, piss poor for a national but at least mr tommy bothered turning up. the 'march' was redirected and EDL spent the rest of the time either cowering behind plod or fighting each other. 1 steward well battered by their own. arrests, outnumbered, bottled and humilited yet again. up here in dundee, 45 SDL turned up and looked a right shower o' shite! time for them to give up. they are going nowhere 'down the road.'


----------



## harpo (Sep 1, 2012)

There were more police than EDL.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

yeah harpo, likewise in dundee. but dont forgt 'they go where they want when they want.' plod that is!


----------



## treelover (Sep 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The left the left the left... maybe some people just don't like racist cunts?


 

do you care about any other issue, i do wonder..


----------



## harpo (Sep 1, 2012)

Yeah there was actually a ridiculously high number of plod. 

I'm sure I saw that vicious woman -beater there.  What is his name, Smellie (I think)?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2012)

treelover said:


> do you care about any other issue, i do wonder..


 
So everyone who hates racist cunts should be or is a lefty?


----------



## audiotech (Sep 1, 2012)

treelover said:


> do you care about any other issue, i do wonder..


 
Have you anything apart from moral indignation? Politics say?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2012)

treelover said:


> 1000's of protesters, etc, shame a few more of them could of bothered to attend the ATOS protests
> 
> Yes, I know some of them will have, but it shows the priorities of the left, etc in this country..
> 
> over 1000 people have died since their ATOS medicals..


 
I see your point here but I am also wondering whether many of these people just happen to be locals...meaning it was easier for them to be available in WF today, a weekend and all.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2012)

treelover said:


> do you care about any other issue, i do wonder..


 
I think you are being unfair mate. You can't blanket attack peeps on this thread because there weren't as many folks at the ATOS thing yesterday.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 1, 2012)

https://twitter.com/jdpoulter/status/241952493733548032/photo/1/large


----------



## cesare (Sep 1, 2012)

Apparently the OB are photographing the EDL individually before letting them leave.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 1, 2012)

Casuals Against Racism 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/799-real-casuals-vs-plastic-casuals
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/799-real-casuals-vs-plastic-casuals


----------



## cesare (Sep 1, 2012)

Nice one said:


> Casuals Against Racism
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/799-real-casuals-vs-plastic-casuals
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/799-real-casuals-vs-plastic-casuals


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

treelover said:


> do you care about any other issue, i do wonder..


 
trees, in my own considerable experience most anti-fascists i have been out and about with have all been involved in other, rather less exciting, stuff - unemployment, unions, anti-cuts, occupy etc, a lot of which is fairly dull to report, ie, we did a stall today and handed out some leaflets etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

harpo said:


> Yeah there was actually a ridiculously high number of plod.
> 
> I'm sure I saw that vicious woman -beater there. What is his name, Smellie (I think)?


 
don't you mean tommy robinson harpo?


----------



## cesare (Sep 1, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> don't you mean tommy robinson harpo?



She poss means tsg smellie spotted.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

well surrendered: 
http://twitpic.com/aq2ofc


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> She poss means tsg smellie spotted.


request clarification, i repeat ...


----------



## Mapped (Sep 1, 2012)

I avoided getting kettled on forest road due to leaving to cook food for our street party, however we heard the EDL were redirected towards our gaff and me and Mrs N1 went down the road to shout at the fuckers. We were there for the length of thier march and I'd say there was max 200 Neanderthals marching through our streets


----------



## cesare (Sep 1, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> request clarification, i repeat ...



Tsg officer Delroy Smellie that hit woman protester because she was brandishing orange juice carton, and, shock horror, giving him some verbal. This was at protest in memorium of Ian Tomlinson.


----------



## harpo (Sep 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> She poss means tsg smellie spotted.


Yep.  I'm sure I saw him there.


----------



## love detective (Sep 1, 2012)

Nice one said:


> Casuals Against Racism
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/799-real-casuals-vs-plastic-casuals


 
no sure why the confused face - there's nothing inherent within the casual scene that makes them fascist/racist/right wing

In the late 80's when I first got involved I was probably more right wing/racist than most in my firm, and it was being involved in that, that helped (or more correctly forced me) to get rid of the crappy racist outlook on life that i had at the time


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 1, 2012)

> *EDL beat up their own steward in Walthamstow*


http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=810&catid=15&Itemid=186


----------



## ddraig (Sep 1, 2012)

_angel_ said:


> utube links/facebook screen grabs


please tell everyone how it is done! purrrrrlllleeeeeeaaaaase


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Sep 1, 2012)

It's Lusty.


----------



## shifting gears (Sep 1, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=810&catid=15&Itemid=186



It's somewhat hard to muster sympathy for a man with Shrek tattoed across his ample arse.

Fascist or no fascist.


----------



## raknor (Sep 1, 2012)

Finally back from the demo, albeit via a few drinks with comrades etc!

Was today supposed to be a national demo for them, if so very poor turnout and looking like the EDL are in terminal decline, will have to see what bunch of far right misfits replace them.

Kev looked a bit worried at times!! Bless him, especially when a rather large brick missed him by a very small margin when spouting his nonsense!

Great to see & meet up with old & some new comrades as well


----------



## cesare (Sep 2, 2012)

love detective said:


> no sure why the confused face - there's nothing inherent within the casual scene that makes them fascist/racist/right wing
> 
> In the late 80's when I first got involved I was probably more right wing/racist than most in my firm, and it was being involved in that, that helped (or more correctly forced me) to get rid of the crappy racist outlook on life that i had at the time



It's the same confusion that arises with skinheads innit.


----------



## Nice one (Sep 2, 2012)

love detective said:


> no sure why the confused face - there's nothing inherent within the casual scene that makes them fascist/racist/right wing
> 
> In the late 80's when I first got involved I was probably more right wing/racist than most in my firm, and it was being involved in that, that helped (or more correctly forced me) to get rid of the crappy racist outlook on life that i had at the time


 
is Casuals Against Racism a real group or not? Confused face


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

yeah was sick of explaining that skinhead does not equal fascist, that original skins wear sta-prest, perrys, crombies, harringtons, tonics and loafers and like soul and ska (as well as punk). BTF points out that bonheads wore horrible massive ugly boots, combats, t-shirts and ma1s which was almost paramilitary. skins are much more stylish. casual wear anoraks and clothes that go 'look how much i spent on my tracky!' or 'look what i just shoplifted before going to watch soccer teams.' (and please dont make me write LOL at the end of this to emphasise irony!)


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

raknor said:


> Finally back from the demo, albeit via a few drinks with comrades etc!
> 
> Was today supposed to be a national demo for them, if so very poor turnout and looking like the EDL are in terminal decline, will have to see what bunch of far right misfits replace them.
> 
> ...


 
great stuff! they have got progressively smaller each demo, time to give it up. so many people hate them and they cannot go anywhere without massive plod. brighton, bristol and now walthamstow showed massive LOCAL  opposition to bussed in racists being a pain in the arse. carroll is going to face a shit storm of negative publicity with this plod boss prank. we have loads on him!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

lots of hilarious falling out here on edl newsxtra! 
http://twitpic.com/photos/EDLNewsXtra
funny. as. fuck. FACT. or fuct!


----------



## IC3D (Sep 2, 2012)

EDL sober division  will never catch on thankfully.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

being marched for four hours in heat and kept with food water or toilets for over ten hours by met police people were urinating in street and we were left standing in it during the march we were pelted with eggs nnd missiles we never reached our demo point had been overran by muslims and uaf commies a discusting sad day for patriots

shame.


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 2, 2012)

Ratio of SDL to police in Dundee seemed to be about 30 -1.  Pitiful really - about 30 blokes, couple of women, couple of dogs, several flags penned in and growling.  I would advise them to spend their bus fares on a dentist - they seemed to have a bout 20 teeth between them - hardly fit for 'warrriors and patriots.  I like this photo as it make it look like they all really, really wanted to go into primark.


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 2, 2012)

Ratio of SDL to police in Dundee seemed to be about 30 -1.  Pitiful really - about 30 blokes, couple of women, couple of dogs, several flags penned in and growling.  I would advise them to spend their bus fares on a dentist - they seemed to have a bout 20 teeth between them - hardly fit for 'warrriors and patriots.  I like this photo as it make it look like they all really, really wanted to go into primark.View attachment 22637


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 2, 2012)

catinthehat said:


> Ratio of SDL to police in Dundee seemed to be about 30 -1. Pitiful really - about 30 blokes, couple of women, couple of dogs, several flags penned in and growling. I would advise them to spend their bus fares on a dentist - they seemed to have a bout 20 teeth between them - hardly fit for 'warrriors and patriots. I like this photo as it make it look like they all really, really wanted to go into primark.View attachment 22637


 
I gather they don't pass either the style or  dental test for you.


----------



## treelover (Sep 2, 2012)

not even 'ill fitting' suits'


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

Malatesta on Walthamstow fiasco! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/
read all abaht it!


----------



## cesare (Sep 2, 2012)

Isn't Hope Not Hate summat to do with Searchlight?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 2, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Joyce, with the best of intentions, these people aren't going to just disappear y'know. You're gonna have to deal with it instead of just wringing your hands and hoping they'll go somewhere scruffy like halifax instead.
> 
> I know the history of Hebden Bridge very well, and I know a lot of people who grew up there in the 70's and 80's and got forced out by the wealthy incomers buying up all the houses and turning it into an incestuous gentrified little bubble. I remember when they chopped down a valley of pristine woodland, that had been used for centuries by people in the village, to build a load of "eco-homes" for wealthy people from the south-east. If I had a pound for every time I saw some millionaire stockbroker, who's burnt out at 35 and decided to get a big house in the country, swanning about Hebden like they own the place, I'd be rich enough to live there myself. Frankly, the vast bulk of the people I know from Hebden are wealthy and couldn't care less what happens outside their little valley.
> 
> ...


 
Have to say I reckon you've nailed that!
Hebden (haven't been there for 20 years, but it was bad enough in the early '90s) is/was like a Northern analogue of Glastonbury, but without the redeeming qualities of having Travellers trying to scrape a living there.

BTW, didn't you know? We w/c people don't *have* any culture.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 2, 2012)

who said that?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

cesare said:


> Isn't Hope Not Hate summat to do with Searchlight?


hope not hate is steve lowles and matt collins. they fell out with gerry and sonia gable over something or other and have gone their own way. the only reason we used the pic is cos its a cracker and sums up the edl right now and we aint seen a better one!


----------



## cesare (Sep 2, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> hope not hate is steve lowles and matt collins. they fell out with gerry and sonia gable over something or other and have gone their own way. the only reason we used the pic is cos its a cracker and sums up the edl right now and we aint seen a better one!



They've got copyright all over it though, just saying in case you get grief. That photo of Robinson with the brick was all over the twitter #EDL timeline yesterday, btw.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 2, 2012)

Another thing about Hebden - All the council houses are hidden out of view - There's those maisonettes near the station, you wouldn't be able to find them unless you knew they were there & Doddnaze halfway up the hill to Heptonstall, I don't think there's even a shop there either - If you lived there and weren't so good on your pins you'd be fucked if you couldn't afford taxis. Todmorden's miles better than Hebden - Similar architecture and scenery, but there's a half decent market, a Lidl and a couple of kebab shops and in general Tod seems to be more of a working town rather than a tourist destination/dormitory for affluent wankers who work in Leeds or Manchester.

None of the above has anything to do with the EDL though - Which is as it should be coz the EDL just don't really matter.


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 2, 2012)

It sounds horrible.


----------



## IC3D (Sep 2, 2012)

I had a dirty weekend in Hebdon, full of lesbians, ducks and a canal, some people can be pretty stuck up about things. Get over it. It was sunny too. Have you been to the shit holes around there more like a soiled weekend.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 2, 2012)

It's a nice place to visit for the scenery and that, but you wouldn't want to grow up there - Not much work except for service type bullshit & very little affordable housing and then also the feeling of being marginalised in your own town.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 2, 2012)

FWIW, Hebden Bridge Trades Club is a good night out. Jah Wobble I last saw there and was off to see Vic Godard and Subway Sect next week, but that unfortunately has been cancelled.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 2, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> Malatesta on Walthamstow fiasco!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/
> read all abaht it!


 


> ...foot and mouth soldiers...


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

vic goddard the singin' postman and much under-rated with the sect! school jumper punk rather than seditionnaires designer gear too!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

audiotech said:


> FWIW, Hebden Bridge Trades Club is a good night out. Jah Wobble I last saw there and was off to see Vic Godard and Subway Sect next week, but that unfortunately has been cancelled.


 
im on side with the hebden, had some great weekends there. pretty good music for a wee place. and the canal boat ride rocks!


----------



## audiotech (Sep 2, 2012)

"Everyone's a prostitute, singing a song in prison. Moral standards the wallpaper, the wall is bad religion. Media teach me what to speak, take my decisions."


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

techy, love the jumpers! knitwear punks! great!!!!!!!
beat this tho!


----------



## audiotech (Sep 2, 2012)

Vic Godard would never have an ambition to open and run a tanning salon, unlike that entrepreneurial EDL gob-shite


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2012)

Course he would. FFs.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 2, 2012)

Tanning salons are evil.



> Am I guided or is this life for free
> Because nothing ever seems to happen to me.
> And I won't be tempted by vile evils
> Because vile evils are vile evils...


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2012)

No ambition?


----------



## audiotech (Sep 2, 2012)

My late father used to take me to see Harold Lloyd at the local News Theatre.

Vic Godard has scaled more creative heights.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2012)

Than the local News Theatre? How come he's in appearing in hebden bridge then?


----------



## audiotech (Sep 2, 2012)

News Theatre's showed newsreels, comedy and cartoons on film. My father was a projectionist for a time.

Vic Godard and Subway Sect are not playing in Hebden Bridge now, but they are touring and their music resonates still, as it has done for over thirty years. Not a bad innings really. Not into fame and fortune as such, no intention of that, nonetheless, creative musically and have had some influence on other musicians who've come after them.


----------



## manny-p (Sep 2, 2012)

Enough about Hebden fuckin' Bridge!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Enough about Hebden fuckin' Bridge!


 
but manny, this is great!
http://www.hebdenbridgelist.com/business-directory/stubbing-wharf-cruises
you can see ducks and everything!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2012)

Some great photos here

http://hoffman.photoshelter.com/gallery/120901-EDL-Walthamstow/G0000SuyykXTLHfw


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2012)

better ones here bob!
http://www.hebdenbridge.co.uk/photos/duckrace-2007/l8.jpg
hows the kitchen?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2012)

Got laid off and been too depressed to finish the painting and tiles.... Finished up last week in work so going to finish it this week.... well that's what i told the wife...


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 2, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/aqhzyi


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/aqhzyi


 
How the bloody hell did he manage to hog a police van loud speaker for so long?  Rights being taken away? I have never seen anyone get the luxury he has in that video. Pleb.


----------



## albionism (Sep 2, 2012)

"I love you, your'e my best mate you are"


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2012)

more

http://twitpic.com/aqixil


----------



## manny-p (Sep 3, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Some great photos here
> 
> http://hoffman.photoshelter.com/gallery/120901-EDL-Walthamstow/G0000SuyykXTLHfw


Why the fuck are you giving that cunt the air of publicity? Boycott the bastard.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Got laid off and been too depressed to finish the painting and tiles.... Finished up last week in work so going to finish it this week.... well that's what i told the wife...


 
sorry about the laid off bit. just got a new worktop and cupboards and am starting to emulsion today. found some pretty disgusting stuff behind the cooker.


----------



## pennimania (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> 3,000 anti says plod!!! about 250 EDl, piss poor for a national but at least mr tommy bothered turning up. the 'march' was redirected and EDL spent the rest of the time either cowering behind plod or fighting each other. 1 steward well battered by their own. arrests, outnumbered, bottled and humilited yet again. up here in dundee, 45 SDL turned up and looked a right shower o' shite! time for them to give up. they are going nowhere 'down the road.'


I was in Dundee on Saturday! My son is starting at DJCAD 
We saw (and briefly joined) the anti SDL demo.

There weren't many of them were there? And what a pathetic set of specimens, like something that had leaked out of a hole in a wall.

I wish we could have stayed longer but son had to get his keys and move into hall.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> How the bloody hell did he manage to hog a police van loud speaker for so long? Rights being taken away? I have never seen anyone get the luxury he has in that video. Pleb.


 
swearing and slagging off plod whilst sitting in their van. bloody ingrate!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

pretty funny! 
http://twitpic.com/aqgh81


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

pennimania said:


> I was in Dundee on Saturday! My son is starting at DJCAD
> We saw (and briefly joined) the anti SDL demo.
> 
> There weren't many of them were there? And what a pathetic set of specimens, like something that had leaked out of a hole in a wall.
> ...


 
there was about 40-50 all told. a pathetic turnout and done deliberately to coincide with walthamstow. they are NF, BNP types and fuck all. like the EDL, they have no strtaegy, no policy and no endgame and just look like what they are - eejits out on the piss.


----------



## pennimania (Sep 3, 2012)

My daughter was at a Kevin Bridges gig recently and she said he was ripping the piss out of them.

Audience loved it


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

they never learn, part 103. straight from the horses arse:
The police yesterday were as peed off with their own brass as us. probably more so. Effectively we were kettled from the moment of arrival at Blackhorse Road tube. However whoever had the brilliant idea of mustering at Kings Cross pubs effectively meant we had already had a march through the area and into Euston train/tube before being entrained. Only now managing to rehydrate and having to take pain killers for my legs. Saw at least 4 people collapse and after being propped up against a wall for a time put back into the kettle. Elderly women not allowed to toilet for 7 hours such is the disdain shown by the government on its own citizens. They arrested all the EDL for a public order offense or to prevent one. I like everyone else was bussed back to Kings Cross in police carriers at around 2130 hours and dearrested.They think we will not be back but if the promised, on the day, protest goes ahead at Tower Hamlets, this old soldier will be back on the front line. No surrender. going straight back up to Walthamstow with leaflets as soon as it is light. 'We know where you live'.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

oh dear! 
Upon reaching the station we saw it was blocked off the a combination of UAF and MDL so the police marched down a side road where we were kettled again with toilets, until around 10 pm. The police called a section 60 and we were all searched had our details taken for the police national computer handcuffed and bundled into various police vehicles/buses 1 EDL to 1 cop and dropped off at kings cross where we were de-arrested and told to go home. This is a new tactic by the police, we think it was to get us so ****** off that we wont go on future demos.


----------



## love detective (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> there was about 40-50 all told. a pathetic turnout and done deliberately to coincide with walthamstow. they are NF, BNP types and fuck all. like the EDL, they have no strtaegy, no policy and no endgame and just look like what they are - eejits out on the piss.


 
was Gunnings and the Lochee fleet there?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

LD, theres a bunch of pix on scotland united against SDL. usual mugs and munters. i'll not paste in here as it may upset a few stomachs. any news of RA site chap?


----------



## love detective (Sep 3, 2012)

yeah it's all ready to go, all 100 odd back issues of RA on it, there's just a bit of fine tuning of a retrospective/history article that will go up at the same time to be done


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

fantastic, just getting to you lot with the book (60,000 words done!) so this will be very timely. great stuff.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2012)

The police have got the EDL absolutely stitched up imo


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## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Some great photos here
> 
> http://hoffman.photoshelter.com/gallery/120901-EDL-Walthamstow/G0000SuyykXTLHfw


One of the counter demonstrators has one of the worst jackets I have seen for some many years


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

yeah steps, given the reports from the weekend plod have had enough and were none too gentle. the EDL cost a lot of money to police and with cuts and budget worries they are a waste of resources if nothing else as far as CC's are concerned. the EDL, as we have said so many time, do not go where they want but where plod tells em. hope yr well mate!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

that plod looks like he's charging him for possession of an offensive anorak or going equipped to commit a fashion crime.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

the EDL dont look like readers do they?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)

Or the hammer and knife.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)

Anyway, i reckon we should be downloading hoffmans pics and hosting them somewhere else, not linking to them.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

yes indeed.


----------



## cesare (Sep 3, 2012)

Brian Whelan's onto Hoffman at the moment for (mis)using one of his pics


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)

Talking of bad jackets, this brum lad had a ralph lauren quilted jacket on in bristol, the whole left hand side was a stiched in version of the bloke playing polo. Embarrassing. One in the cap here. (Made a bit of dick of himself at the station too by calling for his dad then forcing his 13-14 year old mate/brother to walk out first)







edit:  the little kiddy is right next to him in this pic
edit 2: he had the most brilliant danny dyer walk i've ever seen as well.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)

cesare said:


> Brian Whelan's onto Hoffman at the moment for (mis)using one of his pics


He should be - how much did Hoffman screw out of him - about £500 wasn't it?


----------



## cesare (Sep 3, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> He should be - how much did Hoffman screw out of him - about £500 wasn't it?



That rings a bell, yes. Whelan's going after him for £400 according to the tweet I saw.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)

**


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

this ones less contentious!
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/edl-in-walthamstow-english-defence-league
funny and great pix.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

this is the best thing ive seen so far!

and this: 





and this 





no surrender to continence! bugles.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah steps, given the reports from the weekend plod have had enough and were none too gentle. the EDL cost a lot of money to police and with cuts and budget worries they are a waste of resources if nothing else as far as CC's are concerned. the EDL, as we have said so many time, do not go where they want but where plod tells em. hope yr well mate!


 
Fine thanks. Its not just the cost to the Police there is also a huge cost to the local council and the weeks of contingency planning that goes into these events.Pretty much the line is to 'facilitate' their march with the minimum risk to public order.I think this is the norm now hence the lack of Council petitions to stop the marches.
There are two ways of looking at it and pragmatically it depends on their numbers and capacity: on one hand if they have a hard time they might want to come back with more just out of indignation but  if they haven't got the numbers then that is unlikely. There are places where there is something going on ie Oldham, Tameside, Rochdale where the rest of the far right will compete politically with them and this is where you get repeat flash demos, campaigns or events. Don't think there is anything for them in Walthamstow.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

they certainly wont be going back to bristol according to them! i forgot that the council also has to facilitate these things. the flash demos get round all this but like in hebden - sorry manny - they just look like piss artists and achieve nothing but a wee bit of inconvenience. it is on the local level politically that is the main worry. tho not fancying bnp, nf or fluffies much really. and there is defo nowt in E17 for the EDL!​


----------



## laptop (Sep 3, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Anyway, i reckon we should be downloading hoffmans pics and hosting them somewhere else, not linking to them.


 
If you _want_ to be pursued for unauthorised copying of his pics, that is...


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

a solution to #9818


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)

laptop said:


> If you _want_ to be pursued for unauthorised copying of his pics, that is...


I do, that's the point.


----------



## cesare (Sep 3, 2012)

laptop said:


> If you _want_ to be pursued for unauthorised copying of his pics, that is...



So is linking OK? Or best just not to touch them with a barge pole?


----------



## laptop (Sep 3, 2012)

cesare said:


> So is linking OK? Or best just not to touch them with a barge pole?


 
Linking to the page they appear on is fine.


----------



## cesare (Sep 3, 2012)

laptop said:


> Linking to the page they appear on is fine.



Ta.


----------



## love detective (Sep 3, 2012)

if anyone's interested there is a bit of an exchange here between Hoffman and myself (towards the end) where he seems to get his story somewhat tangled up - I have him on tape asserting to a Trading Standards official that Searchlight denied passing on any of these pictures, yet on that blog post when I revealed what the Searchlight letter really said, he claims the opposite and that he knew Searchlight had passed the photos on in the first place, despite claiming initially that they had been stolen from him

the guy's a lying prick


----------



## the button (Sep 3, 2012)

love detective said:


> if anyone's interested there is a bit of an exchange here between Hoffman and myself (towards the end) where he seems to get his story somewhat tangled up - I have him on tape asserting to a Trading Standards official that Searchlight denied passing on any of these pictures, yet on that blog post when I revealed what the Searchlight letter really said, he claims the opposite and that he knew Searchlight had passed the photos on in the first place, despite claiming initially that they had been stolen for him
> 
> the guy's a lying prick


Excellent work.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

LD. re below. there is nothing wrong with asking a fee and protecting copyright but in certain circumstances, ie, freedoms financial situation, there is a larger issue. this as well as the claim joe that hoffman made threats re: compromising pix of AFA. solidarity etc! (nice blog tho!)

Hoffman is now coming under at times vitriolic attack in anarchist blogs and web sites for asking for his due, with many suggesting that he should have waived the fee.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> that plod looks like he's charging him for possession of an offensive anorak or going equipped to commit a fashion crime.


Do you mean the chap with the red button fetish who was clearly a carpenter going about his rightful business when he was unlawfully S&Sed, or the geezer in the leather who shares an uncanny resemblance with comic strip writer Pat Mills?


----------



## love detective (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> LD. re below. there is nothing wrong with asking a fee and protecting copyright


 
the story is much wider than that - the 'disputed' pictures had been used in various publications by AFA over a period of twenty odd years without a peep from Hoffman or Searchlight, they were passed on to AFA by Searchlight (in exchange for information) for use as they saw fit. It's not like when the book was being published Hoffman's photos were stolen from his site to use, what happened was that photos that were physically in the AFA archive and had been used in the past for various publications were used in the book (if you read the posts on that blog it goes into the chain of events in more detail)

in any case, it was never about the narrow issue of copyright anyway, that was just a proxy for something somewhat more political


----------



## the button (Sep 3, 2012)

love detective said:


> the story is much wider than that - the 'disputed' pictures had been used in various publications by AFA over a period of twenty odd years without a peep from Hoffman or Searchlight, they were passed on to AFA by Searchlight (in exchange for information) for use as they saw fit. It's not like when the book was being published Hoffman's photos were stolen from his site to use, what happened was that photos that were in the archive and had been used in the past for various publications were used in the book
> 
> in any case, it was never about the narrow issue of copyright anyway, that was just a proxy for something somewhat more political


Exactly. This is more about Hoffman's agenda in trying to get the book's authors named (by either Freedom or Brian Whelan) than the rights & wrongs of using some old photos.


----------



## love detective (Sep 3, 2012)

yep, this comment from Hoffman (in a mail he sent to BW which he forwarded on to me) says it all really




			
				David Hoffman said:
			
		

> the action which I intend to take will bring these serious criminal acts to the attention of the authorities


 
The 'serious criminal acts' he refers to is the activities described in the book, i.e. militant anti-fascism


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

a varmint and a rascal to be sure! isnt that blackmail? do what i want or i'll peach to the peelers?


----------



## laptop (Sep 3, 2012)

love detective said:


> the [photos] were passed on to AFA by Searchlight (in exchange for information) for use as they saw fit.


 
If that were the case, and it were in writing, then Freedom should seek to recover costs from Searchlight, for misrepresenting the permission they had.

If it's not in writing, then Freedom was woefully ignorant of what being a book publisher involves...



love detective said:


> what happened was that photos that were physically in the AFA archive and had been used in the past for various publications were used in the book


 
...which seems likely given the apparent confusion between physical possession and permission to reproduce.


----------



## love detective (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> a varmint and a rascal to be sure! isnt that blackmail? do what i want or i'll peach to the peelers?


 
he wanted it to go to court though (or at least those who he was bag carrying for did) - the last thing he wanted was it to be settled out of court


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)

Yes, the rights issue is a red herring here. Total red herring.


----------



## love detective (Sep 3, 2012)

laptop said:


> If that were the case, and it were in writing, then Freedom should seek to recover costs from Searchlight, for misrepresenting the permission they had.


 
as i'm sure you'll appreciate, the nature of the environment meant that there was never going to be written contracts surrounding the movement of information & material between these kind of parties



> If it's not in writing, then Freedom was woefully ignorant of what being a book publisher involves...


 
Not true. As has been mentioned, the photos had been used in numerous publications over a period of 20 years without any complaint from the photographer, there was a de facto right (or at the very minimum a very good reason to assume the right ) to use them that had been established by precedent over the previous two decades. These photos had not been published or used by any other person or organisation other than AFA, there had never been any complaint from either Searchlight or Hoffman as to their usage (many of which had appeared on the front cover of magazines and pamphlets), and while they could claim, as they do, that they were not aware of them being used, this seems highly dubious given that both were 'active' in various (dubious) ways in anti-fascism in London at the time.



> ...which seems likely given the apparent confusion between physical possession and permission to reproduce.


 
As per above, there was no confusion between physical possession and permission to reproduce - the permission to reproduce had been established by the actual reproduction of them throughout a twenty year period earlier


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> LD. re below. there is nothing wrong with asking a fee and protecting copyright but in certain circumstances, ie, freedoms financial situation, there is a larger issue. this as well as the claim joe that hoffman made threats re: compromising pix of AFA. solidarity etc! (nice blog tho!)
> 
> Hoffman is now coming under at times vitriolic attack in anarchist blogs and web sites for asking for his due, with many suggesting that he should have waived the fee.


I am sure hoffman's writing a nice big cheque to class war to show his appreciation after getting so much from the cops due to the 'wankers' poster


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2012)

Actually, if anyone has a picture of hoffman pls pm so I can make a 'wanker' poster of him


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

expand dear pickmans!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> expand dear pickmans!


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/11/david-cameron-poster-police

then

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/life/p...ameron-is-a-wanker-the-poster-that-proves-it/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

smug git!


----------



## cesare (Sep 3, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/may/11/david-cameron-poster-police
> 
> then
> 
> http://www.sabotagetimes.com/life/p...ameron-is-a-wanker-the-poster-that-proves-it/



So he got money for that too.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 3, 2012)

Thread


----------



## cesare (Sep 3, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Thread


I'd forgotten about that!


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 3, 2012)

love detective said:


> as i'm sure you'll appreciate, the nature of the environment meant that there was never going to be written contracts surrounding the movement of information & material between these kind of parties
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It might have to do with the shite being layed onto Searchlight and a bit of payback...make no mistake I totally disagree with Hoffman doing what he did. Its wrong on many fronts and I would have been ashamed. Not that people who earn a living dont need to be respected and thus their work valued but I dont think this came near. I took many a picture/video/recording over the years and the world can have them if it goes furthering the cause. I took the first ever film footage of C18 on the streets/took some exclusive footage in Sweden many years ago which has featured on numerous doccas and news items over the years. I must admit I wasnt ever a full timer more of an activist/reseracher on a bit of exe's but my motivation was to damage the fash using whatever gadgets were necessary!!!. Some may say different ( state asset and all that bollox)(yawn)but i dont care about that. Ive probably got one of the most comprehensive private anti fascist archives in the UK but cant even begin to work out how much stuff Ive given/borrowed/passed on to people/activists for fuck all. Thats what its about.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

cesare said:


> So he got money for that too.


 he could donate some of that to Freedom as apparently someone took em for a few bob!


----------



## cesare (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> he could donate some of that to Freedom as apparently someone took em for a few bob!


It's the same bloke, mal


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

got to agree with this
I took many a picture/video/recording over the years and the world can have them if it goes furthering the cause. 

no copyright in the struggle against the fash!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

i know i was just kidding C!


----------



## cesare (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i know i was just kidding C!


I wasn't sure after you'd asked about smellie, then pickman's re wanker poster


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2012)

Is this why hope not hate plaster "hope not hate" all over their pics so they look shit?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

hey i dont profess to having a clue about owt!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Is this why hope not hate plaster "hope not hate" all over their pics so they look shit?


no its so barstards like BTF writers dont plagiarism them!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

anyway, back to kitchens - new work surface, cupboards, drawers and all painted! sorted!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm about to paint the outside of the extension as it's sunny at last


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> anyway, back to kitchens - new work surface, cupboards, drawers and all painted! sorted!


 integrated larder units....per chance


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 3, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> integrated larder units....per chance


 butt and scribe...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2012)

Tommy's at the coke again


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

whining fucking maggots. they threw stuff at me wah wah wah... we organised a provocative march and people were provoked and angry wah wah wah. eejits.


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 3, 2012)

Greetings al!

Firstly, I apologise to all who know me for not posting for so long. This wasn't a flounce or anything like that. The truth is much, much more prosaic; U75's been banned at work. briefly, management realised my productivity had drpped, checked my PC, caught me posting, got the raging hump, an banned U75 via the WebFilter. Gr...next the buggers will _actually make me work hard._

However, i felt I had to com on here and post my report on saturday's fun and games in walthamstow. I was there for the whole thing, and the truth is, we handed the EDL's arses to them* on a plate!! *It is very rare you get the chance to wipe the floor with the enemy, but we did. All they managed to do was march 1/3 way along Forest Rd, by which time we'd TOTALLY taken out Bell Corner and occupied the road with a sitdown occupation. To give an idea of numbers; 3,000-4,000 at the rally, march and at Bell Corner (the essential crosroads on the way to the Waltham Forest town Hall complex) about a 1000 later at the Town Hall. And 200 EDL TOPS.
We didn't manage to stop Robinson speaking, but our action reduced their proposed rally to an utter limp dick of an event (I will exand subsequently).

What we did do was make it utterly inconceivable they would get to march all the way dwn Forest Rd to the Town Hall - there was simply too many of us. So Tommy's Big Bwave Fascists had to be led round the back streets by the plod, like chastised schoolboys. The majority of them were than kettled on those backstreets by OB, so only abut 15-20 got into the Town hall area. meanwhile, WE were being kettled, and then found out about their backstreets ramble.

After pleading with the OB to let us through, and hitting them with a few good chants about protecting the EDL, we decided "two can play at that game", went up the hill, round another set of back streets, and down onto Forest Rd, opposite the Town Hall, just in time to catch Robinson bellowing inanities into the megaphone like a bullfrog with gastroenteritis, and cowering behind a massive police presence. And Just a handful of EDL scum standing around, looking fed-up, whilst they were soon subjected to a hail of placard-sticks, eggs and bottles.

Thanks to the OB and the council, we couldn't stop Robinson speaking, but we - aided by that police kettle - reduced the event to a farce, and just as importantly we protected this very multiracial community from their hooliganism and violence.

This was an utter disaster for them, and to cap it all Robinson and his sidekick Kevin Carroll had a right old barney.
A truly, truly geat day, a thumping victory for antifascism, and I am so proud I was there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Tommy's at the coke again



the cop all in black, round 6'03" you see his epaulettes - he's got CP on his shoulders, not (eg) CO. what's CP?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> Greetings al!
> 
> Firstly, I apologise to all who know me for not posting for so long. This wasn't a flounce or anything like that. The truth is much, much more prosaic; U75's been banned at work. briefly, management realised my productivity had drpped, checked my PC, caught me posting, got the raging hump, an banned U75 via the WebFilter. Gr...next the buggers will _actually make me work hard._
> 
> ...


i thought you'd lost your password


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2012)

Taking fucking liberties arguing with the old bill who are basically protecting them from a kicking.


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought you'd lost your password


 nope, much worse. work Pc is my main internet access, crawing in ' 10pm each night, ergo, hard to find time to post outside of work and can't post there. However saturday was so fabulous I HAD to give an account.


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 3, 2012)

One final thing - thought I'd give you a flavour of the chants/songs:
What shalll we do with the EE DEE EE-ELL?
What shalll we do with the EE DEE EE-ELL?
What shalll we do with the EE DEE EE-ELL?
ear-ly in the morning

String em up like mussolini!
String em up like mussolini!
String em up like mussolini!
EAR-LY IN THE MORNING!

and "follow your eader - shoot yourself like Adolf Hitler"
oh happy days....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the cop all in black, round 6'03" you see his epaulettes - he's got CP on his shoulders, not (eg) CO. what's CP?


 
City of London Plod


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Taking fucking liberties arguing with the old bill who are basically protecting them from a kicking.


 
Same old same old.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 3, 2012)

I thought Tommy was about to cry or something.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> City of London Plod


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the cop all in black, round 6'03" you see his epaulettes - he's got CP on his shoulders, not (eg) CO. what's CP?


 
CP stands for Comrade Policeman in Camerons cultural marxist police force (copyright EDL)


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

the reason why you couldnt stop mr tommy speaking was cos plod let him use their van and PA system whilst surrounding him! damn camerons cultural marxist PC plods!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> CP stands for Comrade Policeman in Camerons cultural marxist police force (copyright EDL)


no, i think mr bishie's right about city plod. yer man looks thick enough to be in the city tsg who do indeed, if memory serves, have cp on their shoulders


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 3, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I thought Tommy was about to cry or something.


 
He would have, if a bottle had been on target. He really is a fucking joke.

LOL @ Tommy


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

having CP on their shoulders? is CP text speak for chip?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2012)

deluded casual claims saturday was a victory! incredible! 
http://awesomescreenshot.com/00cexkrab


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> CP stands for Comrade Policeman in Camerons cultural marxist police force (copyright EDL)


 
Workers' defence squads.


----------



## harpo (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah he might have tried but he just couldn't be heard.  It was an absolute shambles for them.  I was outside the town hall (by the bus stop) when he was giving it a go and it was a complete, embarrassing non-event for them.  A few of his henchmen experimented with some 'hardman' grimacing from within their kettle but it just provoked mirth. 

What I was also very pleased about was when some of the young lads in our crowd got a bit feisty, they were immediately calmed by others and told to keep it peaceful. We held an impressive presence. 

Lots of people were coming up the back streets past ours and round.  Our kettles weren't really kettles at all


----------



## audiotech (Sep 3, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> whining fucking maggots. they threw stuff at me wah wah wah... we organised a provocative march and people were provoked and angry wah wah wah. eejits.


 
Remember Tommy in that EDL documentary, pissed, chucking a rock at a copper.


----------



## cesare (Sep 4, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> nope, much worse. work Pc is my main internet access, crawing in ' 10pm each night, ergo, hard to find time to post outside of work and can't post there. However saturday was so fabulous I HAD to give an account.




We didn't even get "setting off now"


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 4, 2012)

SDL BNP links revealed on shirtfront.
I will contact you shortly with a final decision but you will not be allowed to attend any British National Party official demos and the SDL have instructed me to advise you you won't be welcome back with them. You of course will have the right to reply. David Orr, Scottish Organiser British National Party.​ 
Observers will note that Orr is the individual who forgot to put the nomination papers in on time for an important election in Scotland not too long ago.​


----------



## manny-p (Sep 4, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> the cop all in black, round 6'03" you see his epaulettes - he's got CP on his shoulders, not (eg) CO. what's CP?


Chief pig.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 4, 2012)

it beggars belief: 
 the E D L is on the up and this is all down to you lot you are the E D L we are just the front saturday was a success


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 4, 2012)

walthamstow post-mortem! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 4, 2012)

kev losing it with mr tommy at 4.15. 'tommy, turn it in will ya' whilst not listening to anything the femi-plod is saying. good luck with the commissioner gig kev! 
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...ev-refused-chance-to-stand-by-their-followers


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 4, 2012)

and 7 mins in mr tommy does his best great dictator. thats enough for 1 day.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 4, 2012)

That wasn't a speech, more like a temper tantrum.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 4, 2012)

Where/when/who with did he serve?


----------



## audiotech (Sep 4, 2012)

Cubs? Boys Brigade? Army surplus? Mothercare?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 4, 2012)

The Luton Rifles


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2012)

A clan on Halo


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 4, 2012)

Behind the counter in a pound shop.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 4, 2012)

the receiving end of a glory hole


----------



## audiotech (Sep 4, 2012)

The black and tanning salons.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 4, 2012)

What about uncle kev?


----------



## audiotech (Sep 4, 2012)

Royal Arse Brigade.

Edit: I didn't realise that there is a regiment called: 'Royal Army Dental Corps'. Presumably, who fight tooth and nail for Queen and Prince Harry in the buff.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 4, 2012)

In Ispwich we serve


----------



## audiotech (Sep 4, 2012)

Never mind Tommy. You had your 15 minutes.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 4, 2012)

NO SURRENDER TO THE PROVOST!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 4, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Never mind Tommy. You had your 15 minutes.



Get out of victoria park while the tubes are still running.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 4, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Tommy's at the coke again





You've all missed something here. Who's the conservadiv with the posh git accent at min 4.55?
He sounds like a right wanger, he does...


----------



## audiotech (Sep 4, 2012)

Not in the least, missed it that is, as it's the BFP, ex UKIP knob, Paul Weston.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 4, 2012)

Seems down at the moment but this is his moan about how freedom of speech was killed on Saturday...

http://britishfreedom.org/englands-new-totalitarian-police-force/

RIP shouting racist stuff in public


----------



## moonstomp (Sep 4, 2012)

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....gang-in-court-over-leeds-pub-attack-1-4893231

Very lenient for a publicised attack on an Anti Fascist gig , Antifa slapped a couple of ''German '' tourists in London and were subjected to draconian bail restrictions and heavy sentences....suppose it shouldn't suprise us really


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 4, 2012)

Meja Blacks out....

http://twitpic.com/ar53w5


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 4, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Royal Arse Brigade.
> 
> Edit: I didn't realise that there is a regiment called: 'Royal Army Dental Corps'. Presumably, who fight tooth and nail for Queen and Prince Harry in the buff.


Crown Forces   haha


----------



## audiotech (Sep 4, 2012)




----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 4, 2012)

moonstomp said:


> http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....gang-in-court-over-leeds-pub-attack-1-4893231
> 
> Very lenient for a publicised attack on an Anti Fascist gig , Antifa slapped a couple of ''German '' tourists in London and were subjected to draconian bail restrictions and heavy sentences....suppose it shouldn't suprise us really


 
One 31 year old called Mark Johnson, who can't make friends his own age it seems, from a tiny super-posh village in the middle-of-nowhere and a gang of teenagers from around Leeds and Huddersfield young enough to be his kids. He's got off very lightly if you ask me.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 4, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Royal Arse Brigade.
> 
> Edit: I didn't realise that there is a regiment called: 'Royal Army Dental Corps'. Presumably, who fight tooth and nail for Queen and Prince Harry in the buff.


are you bignose in disguise!!!!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> are you bignose in disguise!!!!!


if he is it's not a very good disguise.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 4, 2012)

ha ha! just watch the punnery you 'orrible lot!


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 4, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> You've all missed something here. Who's the conservadiv with the posh git accent at min 4.55?
> He sounds like a right wanger, he does...


 

is it that solicitor who they work with from what was Mosque busters , Gavin Boby?


----------



## audiotech (Sep 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> are you bignose in disguise!!!!!


 
I can state, with hand on empty wallet, that I have not, nor ever have been an Eric Morecambe impressionist.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 4, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> You've all missed something here. Who's the conservadiv with the posh git accent at min 4.55?


 
I thought it was Michael York looking for his Zeppelin again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> I thought it was Michael York looking for his Zeppelin again.


michael york's not in the edl - is he?


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 5, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> I thought it was Michael York looking for his Zeppelin again.


That went down like a led balloon!!


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> michael york's not in the edl - is he?


 
No but him on the right is.......Reed Reed Reed D L


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 5, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> are you bignose in disguise!!!!!


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Im up early as Im going on hols and Ive not packed yet


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 5, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Not in the least, missed it that is, as it's the BFP, ex UKIP knob, Paul Weston.


 
straight from the horses arse!
Freedom of Assembly and Freedom of Speech died in Walthamstow on September 1st 2012. This was the date that Britain officially became a Police State.


the main EDL contingent, numbering between  400-500

i dont think so!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 5, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Im up early as Im going on hols and Ive not packed yet


 
don't forget the piece of string to hold up your jogging bottoms


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 5, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> don't forget the piece of string to hold up your jogging bottoms


Ah the Sean John navy blue mega baggy trackie bottoms with ultra strong draw string fastening system.......or so it said in the advert...not so fail safe when I was helping carry a big 3 seater settee into a mates house and the fucker broke....it was the first time Id met his girlfriend and I couldve died.....


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 5, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> are you bignose in disguise!!!!!


 
He can't be, his humour isn't as stale as nosey's!!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 5, 2012)

Panda  Makes Cat Sound!!!!!!


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 5, 2012)

Anyone seen the EDL article in the latest FHM magazine?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2012)

Sadly  I have had to let my subscription to that august organ lapse


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 5, 2012)

Like, who the fuck around here reads FHM?  /


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 5, 2012)

claphamboy said:


> Like, who the fuck around here reads FHM?  /


It was a get well soon gift from the new lady friend  
Worth a read all the same. Wish I had a scanner. Someone needs to write to FHM


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 5, 2012)

once it's out on the internet i will upload a pdf for everyone. fucking buying that shit.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 5, 2012)

“What’s that smell? EdL!”

What you can smell in this video is the desperation. They are absolutely pathetic. Jostled and jeered. There’s a LOL bit at minute 4.50 when the Edl lost property division holds aloft something he may very well deserve.

There’s another LoL at minute 5.47 when the spitlemouth division (all one of them) walks across screen. That’s when the Benny Hill music should kick in.

Check the reaction when one of em starts singing "let's go fuckin mental", towards the end at 6.10.  It's one of those LoL moments.

Well done everyone who was there to oppose them…

What’s that smell?


----------



## manny-p (Sep 6, 2012)

3.58 'get these pakis'


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2012)

Tommy on TV last night

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5554/file16161zjuqzveedikdmgpztak.mp4


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommy on TV last night
> 
> http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5554/file16161zjuqzveedikdmgpztak.mp4


 
fucking hell! he will do anything for his media ego fix wont he. 'what size cap'? dutch cap, cos yr a twat!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

im gobsmacked. really. really. gobsmacked.


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommy on TV last night
> 
> http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5554/file16161zjuqzveedikdmgpztak.mp4



That was the Revolution Will Be Televised, wasn't it?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2012)

yes it was. BBC3


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yes it was. BBC3



He either didn't realise that the whole programme is a Brasseye type pisstake, or he was just desperate for the publicity.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2012)

or both


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> or both



Yep


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2012)

Oh god, two private school poshoes (at least one of whom is a cameron-esque big society libertarian) with a show on BBC3 (what a surprise!) doing over tommy robinson. Cheers for that BBC.


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Oh god, two private school poshoes (at least one of whom is a cameron-esque big society libertarian) with a show on BBC3 (what a surprise!) doing over tommy robinson. Cheers for that BBC.



They're not that good, either. The odd patch of ha! here n there, but overall a bit meh.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Oh god, two private school poshoes (at least one of whom is a cameron-esque big society libertarian) with a show on BBC3 (what a surprise!) doing over tommy robinson. Cheers for that BBC.


 
I don't like agreeing with you on principle, but that was entirely my reaction as well. Didn't make any point at all, wasn't funny, just another excuse to put Lennon's fat fucking face on the telly. They shouldn't be doing this, he's a full-on celebrity-circuit wanker, he's been on everything.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I don't like agreeing with you on principle, but that was entirely my reaction as well. Didn't make any point at all, wasn't funny, just another excuse to put Lennon's fat fucking face on the telly. They shouldn't be doing this, he's a full-on celebrity-circuit wanker, he's been on everything.


Problem with this approach is that there are a great many things on which i'm right.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

so thick. 'we havent been to the pub' cut to dolphin hotel exterior. 
http://brianwhelan.net/post/30963935956/my-video-report-from-the-edl-rally-in-walthamstow
49secs in. oh dear kev.


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> so thick. 'we havent been to the pub' cut to dolphin hotel exterior.
> http://brianwhelan.net/post/30963935956/my-video-report-from-the-edl-rally-in-walthamstow
> 49secs in. oh dear kev.



That's where Brian got attacked, right at the end.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 6, 2012)

A reminder here, with a view to an analysis in 2011 of EDL supporters by Demos: _Inside the EDL, _that people attracted to this far-right group can't just be dismissed using clichéd, pejorative terms, often media driven. The report stresses that EDL supporters are more complex than is often portrayed.

The report found that around 30 percent are educated to college or university level, and 15 percent have a professional qualification. Although, it is noted that EDL supporters, especially older supporters, are more likely to be unemployed. The Demos report also recognises that around a third of EDL supporters would happily vote for the BNP.

The report also argues that many EDL followers view themselves ultimately as democrats. It is the little trust many EDL supporters have in the mainstream institutions of society, which helps explain the turn to far-right extremist groups that reflect and express their concerns.

Using pejorative, stereotypical terms to demonise will only entrench resentments, which the far-right thrives on. In the latest edition of Searchlight, which uses the Demos report in an article analysing far-right extremism, the author of this piece makes the important point that: "One cannot overcome prejudices in society with a retreat into stereotypes".

What leads to people going on EDL demonstrations? The report highlights these reasons:



> ...it is a sense of injustice and pessimism about the future that encourages them to protest – a sense that may be exacerbated by the low confidence that EDL demonstrators have in the police.


 
As the economic situation is further likely to exacerbate tensions, it will be engagement and persuasion in civil and political society, not just demonstrations alone, that will undermine far-right "alternatives", which in reality offer no political solutions.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

fair enough in part but anyone who has been on counter-demos has seen the EDL up close: pissed, violent, 'who are you?' 'allah is a pedo' chants; usual fucking eejits. the facebook and forum comments are hardly impressive. they do have legitimate grievances but it aint fucking muslims making folk unemployed, not building affordable housing and controlling the banks! (its the joos!)


----------



## audiotech (Sep 6, 2012)

What we saw at the weekend was the continuing decline of numbers attending EDL marches, leaving the hard-core and I assume some of the other flora and fauna of the far-right attaching themselves to the EDL. We've also seen the decline of the BNP (latest membership figures, 7,681, from a peak of 12,632 in 2009), but the underlying issues that have allowed both organisations to grow have not gone away. It also needs to be noted that support for both groups have some striking similarities amongst their base, which, while that too has declined, will, if an alternative is not posed to it, will be back.

Edit: The first EDL demo I was up close and personal to included on it, an Asian, a Jew and it should be said a well known local NF member. Turned out Tommy was there too, still wearing his niqab at the time.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

the report talks about 'supporters' which can be a fairly ambiguous term. the ones on the demos are the only 1s we can talk about through experience and they are a pretty unimpressive bunch of bugles. i will have to take time to read the whole thing. and by the way, book review here: 
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/123452


----------



## audiotech (Sep 6, 2012)

The EDL having no democratic structure, with no formal membership, "supporter" is all that there is to analyse.


----------



## krink (Sep 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> and by the way, book review here:
> http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/123452


 
your book?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

no its the new one about far right from a new statesman writer (i was told!). mines out next year.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

audiotech said:


> The EDL having no democratic structure, with no formal membership, "supporter" is all that there is to analyse.


 
yeah, so its a bit of a vague term. the only 1s i wd take seriously are the ones who go on the demo days. lots of people 'support' the bnp etc but dont vote for em. also i trust the opinions and experiences of anti-fascists (like on here) more than demos cos we have the ability to compare them to previous opponents - NF, BNP, BM, etc. for me the EDL are similar but with more support than before from soccer firms.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 6, 2012)

My first encounter of, it should be said, a small, local fascist grouplet, was back in 1974. Jeez, hasn't time flown by and such pond-life still exists.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

i know techy, and we're still at it!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

uh-oh!
http://thedebateinitiative.com/2012...or-islamophobia-which-is-a-threat-to-britain/
what are the possible outcomes then?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 6, 2012)

"Did Mohammed have sex with a 9 year old girl?"
"Did Mohammed have sex with a 9 year old girl?"
"Did Mohammed have sex with a 9 year old girl?"
"Did Mohammed have sex with a 9 year old girl?"
"Did Mohammed have sex with a 9 year old girl?"
"Did Mohammed have sex with a 9 year old girl?"

Till he wins


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> uh-oh!
> http://thedebateinitiative.com/2012...or-islamophobia-which-is-a-threat-to-britain/
> what are the possible outcomes then?



Oh good grief. Well, they're hardly going to invite a Muslim speaker that has moderate views are they.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 6, 2012)

either he'll bottle it or make a total arse of himself. he is unable to discuss anything without losing his temper and the muslim guy is an experienced public speaker, tommy isnae.


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> either he'll bottle it or make a total arse of himself. he is unable to discuss anything without losing his temper and the muslim guy is an experienced public speaker, tommy isnae.


I think it's more likely that they've deliberately engineered a debate with a muslim speaker that's known for not having moderate views, so that they can use it as PR for TR facing down the evil Islamicist etc.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> uh-oh!
> http://thedebateinitiative.com/2012...or-islamophobia-which-is-a-threat-to-britain/
> what are the possible outcomes then?


Good on them for doing it and fair play to him for not bottling it. No one else noticing or giving a shit.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2012)

cesare said:


> I think it's more likely that they've deliberately engineered a debate with a muslim speaker that's known for not having moderate views, so that they can use it as PR for TR facing down the evil Islamicist etc.


Have you seen who is hosting it?


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Have you seen who is hosting it?


Yeah but there's been a falling out in the leadership of the MDI, cos of his views.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2012)

cesare said:


> Yeah but there's been a falling out in the leadership of the MDI, cos of his views.


Doesn't change much does it?!


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Doesn't change much does it?!


Not in terms of the day-to-day who really gives a fuck, no.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 6, 2012)

The muslim speakers surname is Al Andalusi (The moorish name for Spain 500 years ago), It's a contrived name meant to send a message as it is an obvious reference to a fundamentalist claim over Spain. The Moors were completely driven out in 1492 by the catholic kings, after several hundred years of dominance over virtually the whole Peninsular. So that will give an idea of what to expect from this, er, speaker.

In order for Sir Tommy  to keep up with him he will have to change his name to Sir Tommy "India is still british". Should be a fascinating debate. Not.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 7, 2012)

no registration required just turn up on the day?

Whoever is behind this obviously wants a ruck, or is just completely stupid.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2012)

i cant imagine mr tommy not being surrounded by his orangu-bouncers and a few UAF outside. the end result cd well we embarrasment more than anything else!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Whoever is behind this obviously wants a ruck.


 
will guarantee publicity for all concerned!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i cant imagine mr tommy not being surrounded by his *orangu-bouncers* and a few UAF outside. the end result cd well we embarrasment more than anything else!


 
Supplied by Vic Reeves?

Seriously though I'm sure you're right all sorts will turn up and it will probably get cancelled amidst much publicity for the MDI.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2012)

it does smack of 'publicity stunt' doesnt it. both sides are eejits and eejits need their wee publicity fix! however, in a non-shouty debate i cant see mr tommy besting an experienced public speaker. mr tommy RANTS and gets angry which is useless in convincing people of anything.


----------



## cesare (Sep 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> it does smack of 'publicity stunt' doesnt it. both sides are eejits and eejits need their wee publicity fix! however, in a non-shouty debate i cant see mr tommy besting an experienced public speaker. mr tommy RANTS and gets angry which is useless in convincing people of anything.


Well the audience will be mainly comprised of EDl supporters, less moderate muslims and a few unsuspecting studes  There'll be no "convincing" needed.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2012)

yeah so whats the point? its like arguing with a tory, you wont change their mind and it just gets boring so its down to who shouts loudest and who reckons they've won best on the internet!


----------



## cesare (Sep 7, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah so whats the point? its like arguing with a tory, you wont change their mind and it just gets boring so its down to who shouts loudest and who reckons they've won best on the internet!


Like Spanky said, the point is PR and the opportunity for a ruck.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2012)

yeah, thats right. its all getting a wee bit desperate for mr tommy after walthamstow, that Tv thing and now this.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 7, 2012)

cesare said:


> Well the audience will be mainly comprised of EDl supporters, less moderate muslims and a few unsuspecting studes  There'll be no "convincing" needed.





> The event will be held on 4th october at conway hall, holborn, central london, uk. Event begins at 6:45 pm (doors open at 6:15 pm). Hall capicity 350. *Please arrive early to ensure a seat.*


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## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2012)

EDL greatest hits. i am not sure who are worse, the EDL stewards or plod who seem to be taking a wee bit of batter! 

10 mins in mr tommy 'we are peaceful blah blah..'


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 7, 2012)

Just why? ...and then 8:38? Those poor people.  Brings up so much rage and sadness. The same terror the NF caused us then. The absolute frustration that they never could see and  still don't get that they are being used by the very 'nation' they claim to want to 'protect'....and of course, some of them just like a ruck.


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## floyd99 (Sep 7, 2012)

Mr Tommy and al Andalusi have already debated at least once:


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## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2012)

if you have 30 mins to kill etc


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 8, 2012)

audiotech said:


> A reminder here, with a view to an analysis in 2011 of EDL supporters by Demos: _Inside the EDL, _that people attracted to this far-right group can't just be dismissed using clichéd, pejorative terms, often media driven. The report stresses that EDL supporters are more complex than is often portrayed.
> 
> The report found that around 30 percent are educated to college or university level, and 15 percent have a professional qualification. Although, it is noted that EDL supporters, especially older supporters, are more likely to be unemployed. The Demos report also recognises that around a third of EDL supporters would happily vote for the BNP.
> 
> ...



The Demos report, published last year, was put together during a time when EDL had broader appeal, demos of thousands and not dribbling hundreds. Those more democratic and discerning elements are exactly they types who ditched it since.

They thought the EDL 'had a point' regarding some 'muslim' loons and general disaffection. Then they found out what it was actually like. No mystery. Are they now little more than a bunch of stupid bleating racists and bigots? Broadly, yes. And there's plenty plenty evidence.

As for the BBC3 thing, there's some pretty good stuff overall. Anyone can be a critic of course. Does lennon get too much airtime? Yes, but it's far worse when he is taken seriously. He outed himself further as stupid and anti migrant. A laughing stock. No bad thing.

The moaning 2 faced twats are putting in complaints about Wstow. Its high time plod facilitated toilets and water for kettles. Apart from that  I don't see a case for moaning about being protected from an outnumbering crowd with hostile elements.

The BFP is supporting them and their whinge about human rights, EDL being basically an offshoot of Amnesty.

Sadly, the BFP says the human rights act is to suit only foreign criminals and terrorists. From their own mouths etc.

Article forthcoming.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 8, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> if you have 30 mins to kill etc




my face is my hoodie.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2012)

I got about 3 mins in before i had to turn it off.....

Has anyone read this FHM thing then?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2012)




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## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2012)

not my pics and not read it yet.... still looking for PDF


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## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2012)

Part 2 of they crying... there going back... LOL


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## malatesta32 (Sep 9, 2012)

dont know what to make of this but it is amusing! 
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...rner/821-tommy-in-punch-up-with-steve-carroll


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## malatesta32 (Sep 9, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I got about 3 mins in before i had to turn it off.....
> 
> Has anyone read this FHM thing then?


 
bob, EDL news bravely saves us the bother of his waffles
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...nson-admits-to-tax-traud-in-walthamstow-video


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## Ranbay (Sep 9, 2012)

http://couchtripper.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=10438&start=255

FHM thingy ^


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## malatesta32 (Sep 9, 2012)

cant someone summarise. ive lost the will bob!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 9, 2012)

Like fuck am i reading all that.


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## krink (Sep 9, 2012)

somebody was saying the return to Walthamstow is on the same day as the anarchist book fair. wonder if any book fair types will want to have a look?


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 9, 2012)

This blog has pdf links to fhm article I think. Not looked at either much, though article looks naïve at first glance. Blog looks possibly scummy too so broke link


http://thetruthhunterblog.wordpress. BREAK com/2012/09/09/edl-8-page-spread-in-fhm-magazine


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## Ranbay (Sep 9, 2012)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...561219612.89577.238696516197018&type=1&ref=nf


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 10, 2012)




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## malatesta32 (Sep 10, 2012)

latest 'malatesta' piece on the EDLs 'victory revenge' suicide in walthamstow! oh dear!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## malatesta32 (Sep 10, 2012)

Casuals nick 'Malatesta' gag
No such thing as bad publicity unless you are Gary Glitter
EDL embarassing political naivety part 105. bugles.
*EDL Support Group*You're either with us or you're with 'them'.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 10, 2012)

Some giggles here, including a slap-down for Lyn "Saddo" Saddington, continual guest on some anti-pages of FB.

http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/FAILED-THREATS/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 10, 2012)

good old schnews! still going strong i see!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 10, 2012)

Malatesta - few deserve the 10,000th post here more than thee, and few august organs deserve a mention in it more than Schnews!


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 10, 2012)

Do they want to have the march banned so they can bleat and avoid humiliation?

http://www.blottr.com/breaking-news/edl-refuse-liaise-met-over-return-walthamstow


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## albionism (Sep 10, 2012)

Aye, looks like they seek to be martyrs to "freedom of speech".


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## malatesta32 (Sep 10, 2012)

yeah, we aint liaising with plod, plod warn em, they can back down with honour!


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 10, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


_"I hope some of the leaders are reading this"_ as I am really desperate for attention and for them to notice my delusional strategic prowess, hence the use of the word Chess, which is like Clever.
Well, John Wright (hand), you have just barely been noticed and your tactical knowhow has been duly noted. In the meantime I'd like to dedicate this song to you because everybody loves a grass.


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## Ranbay (Sep 10, 2012)

The did reply....

(EDL) English Defence League john its already in place mate but thank you for keep reminding us


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## Cal Johnsom (Sep 10, 2012)

Congratulations on your 10,000th EDL post U75! 

XX


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## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2012)

new groupuscule - english volunteer force founded by bristol demo loser michael bayliss. unite the right by forming your own little grouplet! deluded bugles! 
'We are a Non-political movement and would describe ourselves as a Patriotic Counter-Jihad street movement predominantly stands against Extreme Islam. We will also stand robustly against Irish Republican terrorists.' 

does he understand what 'politics' means?


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 11, 2012)

Cal Johnsom said:


> Congratulations on your 10,000th EDL post U75!
> 
> XX



Congratulations on your first...


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## Ranbay (Sep 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> new groupuscule - english volunteer force founded by bristol demo loser michael bayliss. unite the right by forming your own little grouplet! deluded bugles!
> 'We are a Non-political movement and would describe ourselves as a Patriotic Counter-Jihad street movement predominantly stands against Extreme Islam. We will also stand robustly against Irish Republican terrorists.'
> 
> does he understand what 'politics' means?


 
They will all be at it now Tommy looks like he's had it.

Still got money on the "Real EDL" being the next big thing


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 11, 2012)

I'm hoping for the English Defence Force. I still remember the bemused looks of people at the harbourside bars during the General Election hustings in Bristol when the sweatyheads made an appearance, slurring their chants. "Why are all those fat bald men shouting about an electricity company?"


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## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2012)

so the English Volunteer Force are going to succeed in 'uniting the right' where the EDL, WDL, Casual Untied, SDL, NEI, NWI, the templars, scouse nationalists and CXF have failed. looking forward that then! oh, and wasnt it the 'year of the infidels' this yrear? result, a few crap demos, several dead llamas and many more fallouts! good one!


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## Cal Johnsom (Sep 11, 2012)

Llamas are bigger than frogs.


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## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Like fuck am i reading all that.


 
FHM summary: death threats, turkish kebab at FHMs expense (!!!), bus to rochdale pissed already -
'at 8.45 the smirnoff and OJ are flowing!' - met at yates' by multi-plod, support dwindling, 'im a martyr, me!' END OF. FACT.


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## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> if you have 30 mins to kill etc




our summary! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


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## albionism (Sep 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> our summary!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


Love the header on your blog of John Tyndall getting a warm east London welcome.

...D'oh, you've changed it!


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## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2012)

they change with every new page. but just for you, once more with feeling !!!!


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## albionism (Sep 11, 2012)

hehehe


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 
they're welcome to try.  the history of undercover fash in the left is not really one full of success.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2012)

they tend to stick out a bit. wrong tats mainly!


----------



## Cal Johnsom (Sep 11, 2012)

Tweeted, as per usual.


----------



## barney_pig (Sep 11, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> they're welcome to try.  the history of undercover fash in the left is not really one full of success.


Apart from the SWP


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## Fingers (Sep 11, 2012)

My guess for the next few months is Tommy's arse will be roasted on a fork. If not after Walsall, definately after Walthamstow II (WII). The only person I can see stepping in is Tony Curtis and that might unite the North to some extent for a little while but end int he usual bickering and spat fests.


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## articul8 (Sep 11, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Tony Curtis


some like it hot?


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## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2012)

tony curtis movies: 
i was a stool pigeon (mr tommy)
you cant win them all (or anything)
suppose they gave a (race) war and nobody came?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2012)

*New shocking revelation, after Kev promised to donate 100% to charities, then turns his back on The Armed Forces.*



​Above, as predicted, Kev Carroll will NOT be donating 100% of his salary, if elected, to charities after all. During the campaign to attract donations from the public for Kev's PCC fund, Kev claimed in the press, that he would be donating 50% of his salary to a children’s Charity and the other 50% to an armed forces charity. This noble gesture attracted donations from people under the impression they were increasing the chances of a sizable donation to very worthwhile charities. Even though BFP and Kev were challenged on the credibility of this pledge, they refused to deny this was the case and were quite happy to allow possible charity donators to throw their money in the Kev Carroll fund, rather than to these charities direct. In true Far-Right Fascists style, once Kev’s target fund has been met, he is claiming he will be keeping 75% of his salary for himself and only donating 25% to a charity. This is a staggering U-Turn that has effectively taken back the pledge of £225,000 to Armed Forces and Children’s charities. Well Done Kev your true colours shine through once again.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2012)

link to above
http://imgur.com/a/xKX9n


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2012)

oh dear! cue EDL/ZZ top joke!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2012)

tommy supposed to be USA and SION meeting headed by geller and spencer. even cock bugles from the EDL smell a rat:
he says one thing one day, ie I'am skint, I ain't got a pass port, I pay everything myself, we don't have anything to do with zionist ect and then his in the USA, with zionist, paid by zionist and low and behold he has a pass port. Something ain't right. Not good is it.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 12, 2012)

From the BBC last year

Terry Jones, who threatened to burn copies of the Koran earlier this year, was invited to speak at an English Defence League (EDL) rally in Luton.
The home secretary was considering banning Mr Jones from entering the UK.
But a spokesman for the EDL confirmed the invitation to Mr Jones had been withdrawn because of his critical views on homosexuality and race.

What a load of bollox!!!
What a load of bollox!!!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2012)

brave sir tommy ran away. Again!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2012)

Shit in the Pants


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 12, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> brave sir tommy ran away. Again!




That's Holland. Really nice.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 12, 2012)

it makes me wee every time (tho not a sex wee!)


----------



## Cal Johnsom (Sep 14, 2012)

They're at Grovesnor Square later today, once again dancing to Anjem's tune...

http://twitpic.com/auai1h


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 15, 2012)

they shd be happy shouting at each other then, 2 cheeks of the same arse!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 15, 2012)

eejit makes inflammatory film, causes a hoo-ha and violence, mr tommy of the peacefully protesting EDL claims he will screen it. is there anything this parasite will not feed off?


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 15, 2012)

cesare said:


> We didn't even get "setting off now"


Ok...sitting up now!


----------



## cesare (Sep 15, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> Ok...sitting up now!



Hello you! Sitting up now? You been laid up, mate?


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 15, 2012)

cesare said:


> Hello you! Sitting up now? You been laid up, mate?


no, it was a  particularly crap attempt at a pun (though, in true jezza fashion, I did manage to  fall down a flight of stairs and get three cracked ribs, a collapsed lung and a compressed nerve in my hand, for my pains, since we last met).


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 15, 2012)

btw all, there is a rumour these little tossers are planning a MK II in worfamstah on Oct 27. Anyone got a heads-up on this?


----------



## cesare (Sep 15, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> no, it was a  particularly crap attempt at a pun (though, in true jezza fashion, I did manage to  fall down a flight of stairs and get three cracked ribs, a collapsed lung and a compressed nerve in my hand, for my pains, since we last met).



Nah, I got it  But then I suddenly wondered if you'd had an accident/illness in the meantime. Blimey, that sounds painful, hope you're better now. Btw, last time we met you'd been hit by a bike mate, bloody accident prone!!!


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 15, 2012)

cesare said:


> Nah, I got it  But then I suddenly wondered if you'd had an accident/illness in the meantime. Blimey, that sounds painful, hope you're better now. Btw, last time we met you'd been hit by a bike mate, bloody accident prone!!!


I really, REALLY am!


----------



## cesare (Sep 15, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> I really, REALLY am!



We should really organise another drinks otherwise you'll ruin the record of always turning up injured


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm sure I spotted you last night Streathamite, sitting at a bus stop outside tesco in leyton...


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 15, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> btw all, there is a rumour these little tossers are planning a MK II in worfamstah on Oct 27. Anyone got a heads-up on this?


 
yeah they are turning up to revenge their 'victory' of last time. they aint liaising with plod - which means trouble. mr tommy has called for unity - fat chance, he is more divisive than anyone! it is also on same day as anarcho book fair. i am going to be there, any one fancy going up to the stow, a little urban outing?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 15, 2012)

Streathamite said:


> btw all, there is a rumour these little tossers are planning a MK II in worfamstah on Oct 27. Anyone got a heads-up on this?


 
all on here feller! http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## cesare (Sep 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> all on here feller! http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/



I see LibCom have posted you too.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 15, 2012)

mr tommy helpfully says he is going to show that film and also 'sport are troooops.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19608561
the man is a total penis.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 15, 2012)

IM NOT A ZIONIST !!!

HONEST


----------



## Karac (Sep 15, 2012)

Apparently the EDL are planning a return visit to Walthamstow in East London on Oct 27.
A place where they got burnt off quite badly a few weeks a go by a large broad based counter demonstration
Theyve decided this is the epicentre of Islamic militancy in the UK-despite the fact that theres not a particularly large Muslim community there.A few failed Islamist terrorists were based in Walthamstow and got detained for their efforts but im puzzled as to why the repeat march in hostile territory-hostile territory in that its a fairly multi-cultural leftish working class place with little time for pissed up racists.
Unless this the last throw of the dice by Lennon-hes not co operating with the Met -attendances on demos are collapsing-throw his last remaining troops into a charge of the Light brigade scenario against the pissed off youth of East London


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 15, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> IM NOT A ZIONIST !!!
> 
> HONEST




Minute 11.35 "No drink facilities" held for hours with no drink facilities.


----------



## manny-p (Sep 15, 2012)

Karac said:


> Apparently the EDL are planning a return visit to Walthamstow in East London on Oct 27.
> A place where they got burnt off quite badly a few weeks a go by a large broad based counter demonstration
> Theyve decided this is the epicentre of Islamic militancy in the UK-despite the fact that theres not a particularly large Muslim community there.A few failed Islamist terrorists were based in Walthamstow and got detained for their efforts but im puzzled as to why the repeat march in hostile territory-hostile territory in that its a fairly multi-cultural leftish working class place with little time for pissed up racists.
> Unless this the last throw of the dice by Lennon-hes not co operating with the Met -attendances on demos are collapsing-throw his last remaining troops into a charge of the Light brigade scenario against the pissed off youth of East London


 
No offense mate. But this has all been discussed in the last few pages. Follow the thread.


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## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2012)

'Unless this the last throw of the dice by Lennon-hes not co operating with the Met -attendances on demos are collapsing-throw his last remaining troops into a charge of the Light brigade scenario against the pissed off youth of East London.'

the non-liaison is bound to cause trouble and generate the publicity this vain little eejit craves. he knows it is going to happen but will then start whining that 'its not my fault! it was the leftist muslamics' which no one except him and the last remaining deluded fools believe. 'im not a zionist' he says then joins up with well known zionist pamela geller (who was ex-communicated by mr tommy last year) at the NY conference of SION (the clue is in the name!). he is skint but is in the states -- so he is either not skint at all funded by zionists. he is losing the plot.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2012)

from shirtfront: 
Tommy will never make a politicians simply as he is a thug. Nor is he is own man, his strings are pulled by Paul Weston and Chris Knowles and their strings are pulled by Christina Brim and her strings are pulled by people like Frank Gafney and the rest of the US Zionist Neo-cons that fund the Centre For Security Policy which runs the International Civil Liberties Alliance which employs Chris Knowles who runs the EDL from the shadows. ​


----------



## love detective (Sep 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> IM NOT A ZIONIST !!!
> 
> HONEST




content aside, he's not a bad speaker these days


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2012)

LD: he must have had a bit of input from his backers cos this looks pretty 'stage managed' and it is on a larger platform than he is used to. if you watch that vid he did last week in his front room he comes across as an angry confused eejit. 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/tommy-can-you-hear-yourself/


----------



## love detective (Sep 16, 2012)

to be honest when i watched the video he did in his front room last week I also thought, content aside again and for different reasons, it came across pretty well

given the two quite different audiences both speeches were aimed at, I think they were pitched at the right level for both

to stress again, i'm not talking about the content nor do I agree with any of it, but in terms of presentation, form, passion, humility and general coherence and internal logic, it all hangs together pretty well and even if it pains us to say it, it's actually not that bad stuff

far far better than what most on the left could muster


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2012)

crivvens! he was flapping his arms about, swearing the air bloo and he couldnt keep on track on his subjects. even galloway dont do that!!!!


----------



## treelover (Sep 16, 2012)

> far far better than what most on the left could muster
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Corax (Sep 16, 2012)

love detective said:


> in terms of presentation, form, passion, humility and general coherence and internal logic, it all hangs together pretty well and even if it pains us to say it, it's actually not that bad stuff


Which is would be a far more dangerous development than another hundred piss-ups in East London.

Edit: Just watched the whole of that speech, and I don't really agree though. Still no great rhetorician Tommy.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 16, 2012)

> *English Defence League to screen anti-Islam film in East London*
> 
> 
> by *Sunny Hundal*
> ...


 

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/0...gue-to-screen-anti-islam-film-in-east-london/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 17, 2012)

Corax said:


> Which is would be a far more dangerous development than another hundred piss-ups in East London.
> 
> Edit: Just watched the whole of that speech, and I don't really agree though. Still no great rhetorician Tommy.


 
got to agree on this. he is too lairy and sweary, and angry. anger is a great motivator but to be apoplectic just makes him look foolish. he needs to calm down! the wee shite.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 17, 2012)

astonished quote from shirtfront:
When we got to Luton, everyone was fuelled by rubbish lager and coke and misplaced anger fighting each other more than anything.​And:
They seem to attract the lowest denominators of society, unless you believe pissing up walls, being blind drunk, taking drugs and being a twat is what being English is all about. ​


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 17, 2012)

latest 'Malatesta' 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 17, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/0...gue-to-screen-anti-islam-film-in-east-london/


the have pulled the announcement after realising that it was going to be impossible to do and also that it is a shit idea. well surrendered.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 17, 2012)

And another one bites, and another one bites, another one bites the dust...

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/826-tony-curtis-forced-out-of-edl


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 17, 2012)

"that" film is being talked about by the conspiranoids as being a set-up to provoke a predictable reaction from loons that would put Obama on the backfoot and aid Romney's campaign.

I think Gellar is one of the people behind it as well.

There were 2 excellent interviews about the whole thing with a famous paleo-conservative US radio host yesterday, but if I posted a link people would probably spend 10 times longer slagging off the host and me for posting it than the actual content or its veracity.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 17, 2012)

of course they wd taff! this is urban where you can insult your 'comrades' and the like minded with impunity! whoever made this film must be having a real 'oh shit, what have i done?' moment today and contemplating the legal consequences. actors in it are distancing themselves rapidly too. and where did mr tommy think he was going to show it in walthamstow? at the local odeon?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 17, 2012)

Try this one, latest edition (15th Sept)

I have issues with some of Tarpley's opinions but he is at least a bona fide historian, and there is interesting detail in this. 

The blaspheming "muslim" loons and the likes of the EDL are being duped. And not for the first time.

http://tarpley.net/world-crisis-radio/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 17, 2012)

ha ha yes, they both make themselves out to be bugles of significant proportions! shall listen after me tea! (veggie sausages, bubble and squeak!)


----------



## Fingers (Sep 18, 2012)

Jeff Marsh slags off Tommy and the EDL

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/830-jeff-marsh-sounds-death-knell-for-the-edl

The Casuals turn on Hel Growler

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/831-edl-casuals-round-on-hel-gower

oh fucky fuck.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 18, 2012)

New look website on different admin system

http://englishdefenceleague 

BREAK

.org/


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 18, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> New look website on different admin system
> 
> http://englishdefenceleague
> 
> ...


 
that link isnt broken.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 18, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> New look website on different admin system
> 
> http://englishdefenceleague
> 
> ...


 
Yep they have ditched Wordpress in favour of Joomla. Simon Bennet does Joomla systems


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 18, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Jeff Marsh slags off Tommy and the EDL
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/830-jeff-marsh-sounds-death-knell-for-the-edl
> 
> ...


 
BRAW!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 18, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Jeff Marsh slags off Tommy and the EDL
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/830-jeff-marsh-sounds-death-knell-for-the-edl
> 
> ...


What casuals?


----------



## barney_pig (Sep 18, 2012)

Tommy is in Florence.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 18, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> Tommy is in Florence.


 
I wonder what Dylan and Zebedee have to say about that?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 18, 2012)

EDL commonly used excuses no.1: 

A spokesman for the SDL has vowed to appeal the decision in court, saying it could not control what was posted on its Facebook site.

tossers. 
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-e...emist-group-scottish-defence-league-1-2531004


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 18, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What casuals?


 
the massive amount of casuals who are casuals untied, ie., jeffrey marshbubbles and 2 of his wee girl cousins zoe and funt. and err... that's it.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 19, 2012)

I noticed cousin Kevin appeared at the same SION conference, praising the leadership quality's of Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan and a mention for Republican candidate, Mitt Romney. His ego even surpassed Tommy's in presentation and his oratory skills leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## Karac (Sep 19, 2012)

Apparently Tommy Robinson and cousin Kevin are from an Irish background-dont they remember 20-30 yrs back when they were the other?
The potential terrorists?
Any time an IRA bomb went off all Irish people were suspects in the UK.
My missus was spat on for wearing an Irish Rugby shirt in London at the time-dont forget the Combat18 March through Kilburn where hundreds of Nazis attacked Irish Bars and people at the time.
Its a new hatred and its Muslims
Its a created hatred just like the anti Irish hatred.


----------



## laptop (Sep 19, 2012)

Karac said:


> Apparently Tommy Robinson and cousin Kevin are from an Irish background-dont they remember 20-30 yrs back when they were the other?


 
Standard Cockney (now Eschry) denial. "We're Cockerney, we're not Irish, we're not Jewish..."

In 1906 there was a riot on Brick Lane when the German Jews attacked the Russian-Jewish newcomers. Filthy immigrants, and so on.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Sep 19, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I wonder what Dylan and Zebedee have to say about that?


 
PMSL..............


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 20, 2012)

the infidels call mr tommy and uncle kev 'fenians' and IRA supporters. yet another example of sound political thinking. eejits.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 20, 2012)

Karac said:


> Apparently Tommy Robinson and cousin Kevin are from an Irish background-dont they remember 20-30 yrs back when they were the other?
> The potential terrorists?
> Any time an IRA bomb went off all Irish people were suspects in the UK.
> My missus was spat on for wearing an Irish Rugby shirt in London at the time-dont forget the Combat18 March through Kilburn where hundreds of Nazis attacked Irish Bars and people at the time.
> ...


when you're talking about the c18 march through kilburn are you sure you're not thinking of their attack on a pub in kilburn after a bloody sunday march (1993?) when they attacked the pub where all the marchers had been - after the marchers had left? if memory serves, it was the same bloody sunday march where hundreds of fash were nicked by the cops.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 20, 2012)

any more details on that pickmans?


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> when you're talking about the c18 march through kilburn are you sure you're not thinking of their attack on a pub in kilburn after a bloody sunday march (1993?) when they attacked the pub where all the marchers had been - after the marchers had left? if memory serves, it was the same bloody sunday march where hundreds of fash were nicked by the cops.


 
Wasn't there a similar incident before an England game also, possibly around the same time. Sorry, memories hazy but that description rings a bell.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 21, 2012)

Stephen Garvey, who's just been arrested in connection to the murder of those two policewomen, would appear to be in some way invovled in the EDL. At least his facebook account is plastered in EDL shite.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> any more details on that pickmans?


I'll get back to you later when i'm awake


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2012)

oh deary me! 
http://twitpic.com/awpatq
man cop killer was EDL. quel surprise!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2012)

It doesn't say the killer was edl.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> any more details on that pickmans?


http://paulstott.typepad.com/i_intend_to_escape_and_co/2010/06/bloody-sunday-a-vindication-.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2012)

thanks feller! anything 'IRA' (!) just wound the fash up beyond anything else and any of those marches cd be hairy. it seems its still the case. EDL are still doing that daft 'no surrender' chant.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> thanks feller! anything 'IRA' (!) just wound the fash up beyond anything else and any of those marches cd be hairy. it seems its still the case. EDL are still doing that daft 'no surrender' chant.


i was at the england - nigeria game in '94, and there was a load of pissed up twats going 'no surrender to the ira'. i was tempted to point out there were other letters in nigeria - an n, a g and an e.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2012)

no, its his mate who also got nicked who is EDL. of course mr tommy will use the 'we dont have any members' line to convince us all again.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2012)

pickmans, i have a feeling that may have been a wee bit pointless!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> pickmans, i have a feeling that may have been a wee bit pointless!


i think england won 1-0, with platt scoring in the 41st minute. rather a dull game.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2012)

pickmans, all soccer games are dull!!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 21, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> pickmans, all soccer games are dull!!!


 
Arsenal supporter, are you?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 21, 2012)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> "that" film is being talked about by the conspiranoids as being a set-up to provoke a predictable reaction from loons that would put Obama on the backfoot and aid Romney's campaign.
> 
> I think Gellar is one of the people behind it as well.
> 
> There were 2 excellent interviews about the whole thing with a famous paleo-conservative US radio host yesterday, but if I posted a link people would probably spend 10 times longer slagging off the host and me for posting it than the actual content or its veracity.


 
Though it pains me to prove you right, this is utter lunacy and from a former member of the LaRouche political cult.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Try this one, latest edition (15th Sept)
> 
> I have issues with some of Tarpley's opinions but he is at least a bona fide historian, and there is interesting detail in this.
> 
> ...


 
A conspiracy aimed at mormon supremacy? Every mormon headed for the top?

The CIA mormon mafia


----------



## miktheword (Sep 21, 2012)

BlackArab said:


> Wasn't there a similar incident before an England game also, possibly around the same time. Sorry, memories hazy but that description rings a bell.


 



I'm pretty sure they also attacked an emptyish pub on KHR after the Euro '92 qualifier at Wembley, March '91


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 21, 2012)

miktheword said:


> I'm pretty sure they also attacked an emptyish pub on KHR after the Euro '92 qualifier at Wembley, March '91


 
There's pics on the web taken outside McGoverns with a mob of England having a go at the pub.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Arsenal supporter, are you?


 
why, i'm sure don't know what you mean sir! and anyway, im getting back to the cricket!!!!!


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Though it pains me to prove you right, this is utter lunacy and from a former member of the LaRouche political cult.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
the larouchites are fucking scum.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 22, 2012)

Yep. Plenty of stuff about them here


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## frogwoman (Sep 22, 2012)

they have been implicated in the death of at least one person and probably more. (allegedly).


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## Red Storm (Sep 22, 2012)

the English Democrats just had a piece about them on the BBC 6pm news. What the fuck was that about


----------



## RedSkin (Sep 22, 2012)

really interested to know what ANTI-FASCIST ACTION'S ( not antifa) opinion on the EDL would be (or IWCA) considering they have a reach into the "white" working class that most middle class lefties would be jealous of. Know there's a couple of old school AFA on this site. Opinions if you want to give 'em?


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 22, 2012)

RedSkin said:


> really interested to know what ANTI-FASCIST ACTION'S ( not antifa) opinion on the EDL would be (or IWCA) considering they have a reach into the "white" working class that most middle class lefties would be jealous of. Know there's a couple of old school AFA on this site. Opinions if you want to give 'em?


 
I think that's been done to death that question. Search around the site and you'll find stuff on it.


----------



## RedSkin (Sep 22, 2012)

Sorry been away for a long time


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## Ranbay (Sep 24, 2012)

http://policecrimecommissioner.co.uk/Bedfordshire


Fuck me


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 25, 2012)

hilarious! they are trying 3 demos in 1 day. these are all going to be the 'big one' we presume? 
aturday 29th Sept EDL Walsall    200????
Saturday 29th SDL Edinburgh      20
Saturday 29th CXF Oldham        25


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Sep 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> hilarious! they are trying 3 demos in 1 day. these are all going to be the 'big one' we presume?
> aturday 29th Sept EDL Walsall 200????
> Saturday 29th SDL Edinburgh 20
> Saturday 29th CXF Oldham 25


Blimey Mala..... your showing more optimism than Caxley on a good line of Bolivian....

More like:
Walsall - 700 (including 550 'Plebs'.... sorry Polis)
Edinburgh - 12 NF trying to hassle Socialist worker sellers before being run out of town
Oldham - possibly 25 ex-faries getting bladdered in a boozer about 20 miles from Oldham, claiming the Plebs wouldn't let them demo


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 25, 2012)

okay KSLTJ, lets get a book running on numbers then! 700 is optimistic given the amount of PISSED OFF edl after walthamstow. edinburgh split the diff, oldham we agree!


----------



## Fingers (Sep 25, 2012)

I am betting

Walsall 250
Edinburgh 20
Oldham 25

The Oldham figures of course depend on what the police have found on Jame's Devine's and Daz Lumb's computers this week.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 26, 2012)

griffin calls london his home town. isnt that welshpool. apart from that he actually makes sense. 
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 26, 2012)

he also cites 2 deaths from the 70s as examples that fash get killed on demos. err...


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 26, 2012)

That page moans about the edl faking images in the first article then fakes an edl image in the next.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> griffin calls london his home town. isnt that welshpool. apart from that he actually makes sense.
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news


You need to get into the habit of linking to the post properly!

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...mstow-ii-griffin-takes-another-swipe-at-tommy


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 26, 2012)

thank you mr dave! im well crap at that stuff (see blog for further details!)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> thank you mr dave! im well crap at that stuff (see blog for further details!)


Normally you post links to homepages or news pages - but these tend to feature content that changes as more posts are added.

To link to a specific post on a blog, normally it's just a case of right-click & copy address [or equivalent] on the title of the post.

With tweets, it's right-click & copy address [or equivalent] on the time-stamp of the tweet.

_This message was brought to you by the Ned Ludd Antifascist Commando_


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## mr steev (Sep 26, 2012)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> More like:
> Walsall - 700 (including 550 'Plebs'.... sorry Polis)


 
800 police 
http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2012/09/26/800-police-officers-will-attend-edl-protest-rally/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 26, 2012)

bloody hell. they used to be about 2 plod per EDL, now it is clearly going to be 4!


----------



## albionism (Sep 26, 2012)

"Tommy's Irish Republicanism" ? err, since when?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 26, 2012)

Alby, its their usual bollocks, tommy is a republican, all muslamics are pedos, all against them are UAF/commies/middle class, EDL are biggest growing ... it shows their staggering naivety.


----------



## albionism (Sep 26, 2012)

i loved " Multi-cult hell hole of Walthamstow"


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 26, 2012)

ha ha, great place, i used to get goat for me curry goat there.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 26, 2012)

Tommy's American chum Pam Geller is in the news thanks to a poster of hers getting defaced:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/26/activist-new-york-anti-muslim-poster


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 26, 2012)

mr tommy and pammy are a perfect match. both on the road to nowhere and both massive egotists!


----------



## krink (Sep 26, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Tommy's American chum Pam Geller is in the news thanks to a poster of hers getting defaced:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/26/activist-new-york-anti-muslim-poster


 
Good for her but I can't help but think she (and anyone else who is considering this type of activity) would have had more luck if she'd got some decent paint and a fat cap. you could cover those posters in three seconds. A paint like Beltons (aka Molotow) or Montana or Rustoleum with a cap that creates a fat line can do great damage in very little time. Of course, this would be illegal so I wouldn't advise anyone to do it.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 26, 2012)

This is the stuff.


----------



## laptop (Sep 27, 2012)

albionism said:


> i loved " Multi-cult hell hole of Walthamstow"


 
They have Scientologists _and_ Heaven's Gate out there?

/* avoids Zone 3 */


----------



## Dan U (Sep 27, 2012)

someone has set up a new EDL

the ENGLISH DISCO LOVERS







http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...5488035282&type=1&ref=nf#!/englishdiscolovers


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 27, 2012)

does disco have any redeeming features?


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 27, 2012)

I





Dan U said:


> someone has set up a new EDL
> 
> the ENGLISH DISCO LOVERS
> 
> ...


 
Not as good as the RAAH (Republican Action Against House).


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> does disco have any redeeming features?


 
start here (and repent!):


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 27, 2012)

i like pretty much every kind of music but disco i did not get. however, stayin' alive is sort of funky disco and i like that 1.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 27, 2012)

do chic count?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> do chic count?


 
with a bass line like this who could not count on Chic.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 27, 2012)

MDI regretfully announces that the venue for our public debate with Tommy Robinson on ‘Islam and Islamophobia: which is a threat to Britain?‘ – the Conway Hall – has cancelled our booking for 4th October 2012.
Conway Hall, has decided based upon advice from the Police, and under pressure from various anti-fascist organisations and at least one MP, that the event may put the public at risk to public health and safety concerns under the current climate. Despite the security procedures of MDI within the building, the Venue Director was concerned about the safety of attendees outside the hall when going to, and leaving the event. Therefore, Conway Hall has informed Muslim Debate Initiative that for the time being, they will have to cancel the hire of the hall to MDI for public event.​


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 27, 2012)

bob, was that UAF putting the venue under pressure? it wd have damaged the EDL more if he had made a complete clooty out of himself in front of a mixed audience with a clearly superior debater. his arguments are being absorbed because there is little scholastic refutation of the alleged misquotes.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 27, 2012)

i always consider chic as more funk than disco. the bass/guitar are awesome - especially freek out! time to reassess?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 27, 2012)

Can of worms mate, let's just say there's more to disco than John Travolta!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> bob, was that UAF putting the venue under pressure? it wd have damaged the EDL more if he had made a complete clooty out of himself in front of a mixed audience with a clearly superior debater. his arguments are being absorbed because there is little scholastic refutation of the alleged misquotes.


 
No idea, it wouldn't have ended well in my opinion idiots all over init/


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> bob, was that UAF putting the venue under pressure? it wd have damaged the EDL more if he had made a complete clooty out of himself in front of a mixed audience with a clearly superior debater. his arguments are being absorbed because there is little scholastic refutation of the alleged misquotes.


 Clooty...I love that word.....make some more up...!!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 27, 2012)

a clooty dumpling!


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 27, 2012)

I don't know anything about disco or clooty dumplings but I do believe that by getting the MDI debate cancelled we may have been deprived of our very first EDl Martyr (they obviously don't count the ones that have gone down in flames amid pedo scandals). Given the current climate in the world, I would have thought it a great idea for yaxley trousers to go off on one about them muslamics, while surrounded by them  . We can now only speculate about whether he would have advanced from being Sir Tommy to Saint Tommy (of luton).
UAF spoil sports


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2012)

Perhaps it was Tommy himself who got the gig cancelled?


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 27, 2012)

Apols if it's already been posted but Waltham Forest council have got a petition going to stop the English Defence League marching in the Waltham Forest borough, Walthamstow I think:
http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/together


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 27, 2012)

as i said before ' it wd have damaged the EDL more if he had made a complete clooty out of himself in front of a mixed audience with a clearly superior debater. his arguments are being absorbed because there is little scholastic refutation of the alleged misquotes.'


----------



## cantsin (Sep 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> does disco have any redeeming features?


 
good disco is the highest form of dance music


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 27, 2012)

Irish disco's the best. It's got the moves.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> as i said before 'it wd have damaged the EDL more if he had made a complete clooty out of himself in front of a mixed audience with a clearly superior debater. his arguments are being absorbed because there is little scholastic refutation of the alleged misquotes.'


 
Not necessarily. If he ended up getting his hide spanked it may have given him sympathy and rallied people around at a time when the EDL is on the bones of its arse anyway.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 27, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Irish disco's the best. It's got the moves.




Yeah bhoy!


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Sep 27, 2012)

Massive halfwittery from the Infidels - kidnapping, arrests. plod etc

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...n-of-the-week-mark-rodaz-and-his-kidnap-video


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 27, 2012)

Gary Fiennes-H said:


> Massive halfwittery from the Infidels - kidnapping, arrests. plod etc
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...n-of-the-week-mark-rodaz-and-his-kidnap-video


 
I liked this bit: _"It was without doubt the most stupid thing they have yet done in an attempt to look really hard on the internet as  it resulted in doors going in in the early hours and two pairs of NWI branded y-fronts quickly filling with half a pound of prime Dundee cake each."_

The photos cracked me up...They must be the div division.


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 28, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> a clooty dumpling!


 Ive used clooty 3 times today and nobody asked me why I was using such a weird and wonderful word. Im going to use it in my email to every one at work about my leaving do in a couple of weeks. (redundancy) Ive got to be careful about what my true feelings are in public about the whole thing (shitty)but its tempered by some good 'luck' Ive had at the same time. That cake looks top is it available in ASDA.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 28, 2012)

cantsin said:


> good disco is the highest form of dance music


 
that is a strong statement my friend. dance on this!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 28, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Not necessarily. If he ended up getting his hide spanked it may have given him sympathy and rallied people around at a time when the EDL is on the bones of its arse anyway.


 
i was thinking of it in terms of DEBATE which he is shit at as he has a bad temper. his arguments are weak. academic tho really now int it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 28, 2012)

Gary Fiennes-H said:


> Massive halfwittery from the Infidels - kidnapping, arrests. plod etc
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...n-of-the-week-mark-rodaz-and-his-kidnap-video


 
just when you think they have reached the depths of eejicy, they go even further.


----------



## laptop (Sep 28, 2012)

Gary Fiennes-H said:


> Massive halfwittery from the Infidels - kidnapping, arrests. plod etc
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...n-of-the-week-mark-rodaz-and-his-kidnap-video


 
Broken link


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 28, 2012)

just search for EDL News!


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 28, 2012)

UAF statement re: mr tommy and the great debate:
UAF and other antifascist activists, including Searchlight magazine, Camden Trades Council, local MP Frank Dobson and the LSE UAF society, had called on Conway Hall to cancel the booking and ensure there was no platform for the leader of a fascist organisation to promote racism and hatred.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 28, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> UAF statement re: mr tommy and the great debate:
> UAF and other antifascist activists, including Searchlight magazine, Camden Trades Council, local MP Frank Dobson and the LSE UAF society, had called on Conway Hall to cancel the booking and ensure there was no platform for the leader of a fascist organisation to promote racism and hatred.


 
Fascists, I for one would have like to have seen it go ahead.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 28, 2012)

Helen Lel Gower
 September 27, 2012 at 12:30 pm
If as your Press Release alleges the Muslim community were not perceived as a threat and your Clarification piece states that the UAF were not responsible for the cancellation perhaps you would like to explain exactly who you feel are behind the cancellation of your event. Your press release appears to be contrary to the reason you gave to Tommy for the cancellation of the event. I would also like to add that the EDL would not have been perceived as a threat as any EDL attending would not have caused any problems.
Reply





Abdullah al Andalusi
 September 27, 2012 at 1:50 pm
Dear Helen,
Our e-mailed correspondence with Tommy did not mention the UAF as the reason for the cancellation, but we concede that members of the UAF have been involved, and are supportive of Conway Hall’s cancellation.
Our Press release did not say the EDL were a threat to the event, the statement and link to Conway Hall’s statement makes clear the events. We think the Police Inspector who gave the security advice to Conway Hall, may have been overly apprehensive about global events. Muslims have not reacted violently in the UK (or the USA). Furthermore, it would not make sense for Muslims and the EDL to engage in violence and disrupt an event where they both are being given a fair chance to express themselves.
Reply


----------



## ayatollah (Sep 28, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> UAF statement re: mr tommy and the great debate:
> UAF and other antifascist activists, including Searchlight magazine, Camden Trades Council, local MP Frank Dobson and the LSE UAF society, had called on Conway Hall to cancel the booking and ensure there was no platform for the leader of a fascist organisation to promote racism and hatred.


 
These organisations were quite correct. There is no basis for abandoning the "No Platform for Fascists" position imo. The idea that fascist ideology can be "defeated/exposed"  by the power of rational argument is a serious mistake... Fascism isn't dealing with the "rational" ... it justs wants to get its poisonous message out and about  whenever/wherever possible - as a set of ideas , possibly a tad "extreme" .. but "worth considering", in a context of deep social crisis.

This is a position  I thought had been resoundingly won by the anti fascist movement  waaaaaay back in the 1970's. Apparently not, from this..and another recent thread.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 29, 2012)

ayatollah, i think the schadenfreude of seeing that wee eejit making a fool of himself was winning over the no platform idea honestly!


----------



## ayatollah (Sep 29, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> ayatollah, i think the schadenfreude of seeing that wee eejit making a fool of himself was winning over the no platform idea honestly!


 
That's always been a view, when confronted with the frankly bonkers, and often carpet chewing delivery, of racist/fascist views. But in whose eyes would he be "making an eejit" of himself ? Us yeh, but we aren't the target audience. Look at the seriously bonkers ,spittle flecked, rants by Hitler on old newsreels, and its tempting to think "surely the audience must be starting to shuffle its collective feet, and nervously whispering .."Adolf's really lost it this time".... but no, they lapped it up every time.

When society goes into crisis all the deeply embedded idological shit in society starts to surface, and the irrational , the atavistic hatreds, suddenly become "just expressing a commonly held viewpoint" .. and the exposition of racist/sectarian hatred in public forums simply does build the momentum of the racist tide. I know that with the internet in particular , "No Platform" is much harder to enforce nowadays, but in the public meeting forum, fascists have to be banned or physically suppressed.. brutally if possible ... not invited in to take part in a civilised debate.

"Only if our opponents had understood from the very beginning the nature and objectives of our new movement, and had brutally suppressed it from its first days.. could the National Socialist Movement have been stopped" a from memory approximation to that famous quote from A.Hitler himself. He was correct on that one at least.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 29, 2012)

http://www              .liveleak.com/view?i=312_1348871902

A half hour documentary which follows the both the French extremist group Bloc Identitaire, an Islamophobic and Anti-Semetic group. Here's a bit about them:

The second half of this documentary follows the English Defence League, who themselves maintain strong bonds with Bloc Identitaire, conveniently forgetting of course the latter groups strong Anti-Semetic leanings, which may explain in part why EDL's Jewish Division no longer exists outside of Facebook.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 29, 2012)

Looks like the Police are fucking them right up... lol.

http://twitpic.com/azfbav


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 29, 2012)

Seems there were some militant anti fa around.


> During the confrontations around 20 masked youths surged towards the back of police lines but more officers were quick to stop them, ensuring the two rival groups did not meet.At 3pm officers cleared Lichfield Street with a shields charge as members of the EDL were herded on to buses to transport them away from the town centre. ..


 
http://inagist.com/all/252057766724788226/


----------



## Dreich (Sep 29, 2012)

Derisory turnout for the SDL in Edinburgh today, which included various Infididdlers imported from England, 30 or so I reckon, with 4 arrests, apparently.
Oh, and they had a "End racists attacks against white people" banner with a pic that looked suspiciously like Tommeh with his made up black eye (at least that what it looked like from a distance, hopefully someone got a picture).


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 29, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Looks like the Police are fucking them right up... lol.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/azfbav


 
There's a few more pics too, some quite serious head wounds.

As much as it warms my heart to see the bloodied & swollen faces of the far right, let us not forgot that it was a similar bunch of cunts that were only to keen to dish it out.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 29, 2012)

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...hrown-at-police-97319-31932615/#ixzz27s7YOyba


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 29, 2012)

No wonder plod got stuck in -

http://www.itv.com/news/central/story/2012-09-28/walsall-edl-protest/

Can't make out if what's thrown were wooden mallets, or blue peter style home-made axes


----------



## Firky (Sep 29, 2012)

Looks like a table leg. Right on the bonce. 

Shame he's wearing a crash helmet


----------



## Dreich (Sep 29, 2012)

Here's a pic of the polis in Edinburgh, with some SDL apparently lurking behind them...
http://i45.tinypic.com/dbku4i.jpg


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Looks like a table leg.


 
So it is!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 29, 2012)




----------



## claphamboy (Sep 29, 2012)

Bit fucking risky having a table leg on you when there's police around.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 29, 2012)

more pics here 

http://then m network.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/walsall-racist-police-attack-patriots/


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 29, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



It will be hard for police to prove who did that, seeing as there are always loads of legless people mooching about at EDL things.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 29, 2012)

Lets have it!!!!!     ---- I got a hurty   !!!!!


----------



## ayatollah (Sep 29, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> So it is!


 
It's a bloody big table then ! A real Jack and the Beanstalk giant's table there ! Looks more like some sort of vandalised street signpost . Possibly with some sort of directive messages on it, like "this way to the dustbin of history fascist nutters" , and "that way to the pub, drunken yobs" ?


----------



## Cal Johnsom (Sep 30, 2012)

A little vid I did earlier... http://twitpic.com/azichx


----------



## Cal Johnsom (Sep 30, 2012)

EDL's unique selling point is the promise of a punch up with the Police. They got one. What's their problem?


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 30, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> more pics here
> 
> http:///2012/09/29/walsall-racist-police-attack-patriots/


 
Break the link


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 30, 2012)

Cal Johnsom said:


> EDL's unique selling point is the promise of a punch up with the Police. They got one. What's their problem?


 
as usual, they have been shooting off at the mouth and then moaning about the consequences - they do it when bested by locals, antifascists or plod. in cliched terms - they cant walk the walk (only piss the pants). shitters.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 30, 2012)

latest Malatesta!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 30, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> That's always been a view, when confronted with the frankly bonkers, and often carpet chewing delivery, of racist/fascist views. But in whose eyes would he be "making an eejit" of himself ? Us yeh, but we aren't the target audience. Look at the seriously bonkers ,spittle flecked, rants by Hitler on old newsreels, and its tempting to think "surely the audience must be starting to shuffle its collective feet, and nervously whispering .."Adolf's really lost it this time".... but no, they lapped it up every time.
> 
> When society goes into crisis all the deeply embedded idological shit in society starts to surface, and the irrational , the atavistic hatreds, suddenly become "just expressing a commonly held viewpoint" .. and the exposition of racist/sectarian hatred in public forums simply does build the momentum of the racist tide. I know that with the internet in particular , "No Platform" is much harder to enforce nowadays, but in the public meeting forum, fascists have to be banned or physically suppressed.. brutally if possible ... not invited in to take part in a civilised debate.
> 
> "Only if our opponents had understood from the very beginning the nature and objectives of our new movement, and had brutally suppressed it from its first days.. could the National Socialist Movement have been stopped" a from memory approximation to that famous quote from A.Hitler himself. He was correct on that one at least.


 
just a thought: the no platform argument is destabilised a wee bit by the fact that many people interface EDL etc online - apart from when they turn up in town as the good people of walsall saw yesterday. the argument could be that if mr tommy was shown making a fool of himself and it went viral on the net - which it no doubt would - this could expose the weakness of is arguments. such as they are. anyway ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 30, 2012)

all told a very bad day for the far right.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 1, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 1, 2012)

the CXF soggy biscuit final! Paul James won.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 1, 2012)

There were grupuscules like this even way back in the post war era, but back then they didn't have Facebook and stayed as they deserved, unheard of. Bunch of dickwads the lot of them. Go home and play with your action man!

Here they are joined by the casuals.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 2, 2012)

great pix
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/edl-vs-the-police-in-walsall


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 2, 2012)

captions please?


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 2, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> captions please?


 
'They'll never find that bag of chisel on me head'

'Fuck me ..he's right it wasnt a chair leg'


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 2, 2012)

'blimey, that's some truncheon!' or variations thereon - 'is that a truncheon over me head or are you just displeased to see me.'


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 2, 2012)

BBC reporting 'far-right attack in Liverpool city centre' from back in July - and post about it on LivAF page.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 2, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> No wonder plod got stuck in -
> 
> http://www.itv.com/news/central/story/2012-09-28/walsall-edl-protest/
> 
> Can't make out if what's thrown were wooden mallets, or blue peter style home-made axes


 
Well, thre's a table missing a leg here:


----------



## Dreich (Oct 2, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the CXF soggy biscuit final! Paul James won.


 
"Is spunk halal? I hate digestives." etc.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 3, 2012)

desperate time for the EDL. it was 'outside agitators,' 'infiltrators,' etc. give it up. 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...ry-to-claim-infiltrators-caused-walsall-riots


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 3, 2012)

Dreich said:


> "Is spunk halal? I hate digestives." etc.


Jizzhadists....


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 3, 2012)

EDL Phone number leak


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 3, 2012)

That leak's been out ages Red Storm, unless it's been updated or something. https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/09/484052.html


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 3, 2012)

Why tweet it?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 3, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Why tweet it?


 




Apparently Tommy's number still works


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 3, 2012)

Just clocked that


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 3, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> That leak's been out ages Red Storm, unless it's been updated or something. https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/09/484052.html


 
Ohhhh.

Someone put it on my facebook and thought it was new as I hadn't seen it anywhere else


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## malatesta32 (Oct 3, 2012)

RMT action against EDL! 
http://rmtlondoncalling.org.uk/node/3417


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## malatesta32 (Oct 4, 2012)

good spoof!
http://casualsunitednortheast.wordpress.com/


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## barney_pig (Oct 4, 2012)

love the righteous comment


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## Ranbay (Oct 4, 2012)

Tommy gets all in a fluster etc


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## Ranbay (Oct 4, 2012)

oh and i finished the kitchen


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 4, 2012)

Fuck yeah 

Though I note that you appear to have put in too small a rod from whence your pots can hang


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## Ranbay (Oct 4, 2012)

yeah im going to move all that around put the pots lower and stuff... also might tile where the cook books are etc


how it looked before i started, from the other end.


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## ddraig (Oct 4, 2012)

nice one bob


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## Ranbay (Oct 4, 2012)

Cheers, pop over for a cuppa mate i got fuck all to do now


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 4, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Cheers, pop over for a cuppa mate i got fuck all to do now


 
What do you mean? Those skirting boards look suspiciously bare. GET STAINING!


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## Ranbay (Oct 4, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> What do you mean? Those skirting boards look suspiciously bare. GET STAINING!


 
yeah that's one of the jobs that i'am gona get around to


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## cesare (Oct 4, 2012)

Kitchen envy, bob!


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## malatesta32 (Oct 5, 2012)

awesome kitchen bob! and lovely pans, are they copper ones?


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## Ranbay (Oct 5, 2012)

yeah copper bottom ones


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## malatesta32 (Oct 5, 2012)

great stuff, heavy but very stylish! i shall try to download a pic of my new 1 so we can start a 'kitchen bitches' thread (fellers only, dont want to seem sexist!).


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 5, 2012)

My brother sold his guest house today and he gave me a 3 piece suite with pouffe. Its purple and very comfy ...Im so sad I caught myself staring at it with pride once I'd settled on the arrangement. And I kipped on it last night...AND found a £2 coin. I also from time to time head tilted to the side, find myself admiring my volcanic orange le Creuset Pan set. (pics to follow) BoB, I also have one of those IKEA work/prep stations in my kitchen where I keep all my colour coded(orange) untensils. I think your kitchens great...but in my job which I leave next Friday I was in charge of putting in 5,000 of the buggers over 5 years so Im a bit weary....but as I say yours looks good (like the sink)


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## bignose1 (Oct 5, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah copper bottom ones


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## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> View attachment 23735


----------



## cantsin (Oct 5, 2012)

f





B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah im going to move all that around put the pots lower and stuff... also might tile where the cook books are etc
> 
> 
> how it looked before i started, from the other end.


fkin hell, was reading from the bottom of the thread upwards, and was quietly thinking you might be a bit of an eccentric or something....

then scrolled upwards...v nice work !


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## malatesta32 (Oct 5, 2012)

tommy getting angry!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 5, 2012)

MDI thing!
http://thedebateinitiative.com/2012...-opposition-to-holding-a-debate-with-the-edl/


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 5, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> MDI thing!
> http://thedebateinitiative.com/2012...-opposition-to-holding-a-debate-with-the-edl/


i cant be arsed with it meself.


----------



## krink (Oct 6, 2012)

we've got the infidels and edl joining up in sunderland today. nf were also meant to be coming but might not like being told they can't bring their banners. uaf doing a counter demo. sounds like it's going to be a pile of shite tbh. will report back later.

though i might just go watch the match in the pub...


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## malatesta32 (Oct 6, 2012)

please do! the NF/NEI/EDL have had a wee bit of a fractious history, be interesting how it pans out. they are joining forces cos they have lost so much support. politics is MORE IMPORTANT  than soccer teams!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 6, 2012)

list of EDL crims
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oCFu4MXoeKFDJBVMfPegvQqiDL91Q8jg_ZOyhe7VgV4/edit?pli=1


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 6, 2012)

Infidels, NF and EDL takeover sunderland!


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## krink (Oct 6, 2012)

Well that wasn't very good. At least 120 of them nf/edl/nei about 70 antis cops struggled to keep the fash in line. I will write more when I'm home and at a computer rather than a phone.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 6, 2012)

lots of arrests. NF reckon its a monthly do. they'll be lucky. 
http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/42302


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 6, 2012)

footage of futility
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151436455817004


----------



## Cal Johnsom (Oct 6, 2012)

EDL & NF on maneuvers in Sunderland today:

BBC News: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-19857371\

Some footage: http://twitpic.com/b1ox3x


----------



## ddraig (Oct 7, 2012)

who was chucking bangers there then?


----------



## Cal Johnsom (Oct 7, 2012)

The evidence strongly points towards the people who normally chuck them at these things.

The most tasteless example of this was last years EDL demo in Birmingham, where they forced the RBL to postpone their annual Poppy Appeal launch, and although billed as a National demo, only about 150 EDL turned up, threw bangers and fought amongst themselves.


----------



## Cal Johnsom (Oct 7, 2012)

Footage of Birmingham 2011: http://twitpic.com/77ugkl

More archives: http://twitpic.com/e/1xi6


----------



## krink (Oct 7, 2012)

just a quick note, it was the fash who were throwing bangers, stones, bottles and even bangers in bottles at one point. some local kids on our side threw a few bits back at them but were advised to stop because they didn't realise they were being filmed by the cops. the fash must have thrown about a dozen bottles and about 20 fireworks in all. they were even letting them off in their meeting point earlier on. they went back to the same pub after where i heard there were further confrontations with the local kids. the pub in question has a facebook page if anyone wants to chat to them about it.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/CHESTERS-SUNDERLAND/117261229536?ref=stream


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## Cal Johnsom (Oct 7, 2012)

I can certainly clarify that: http://twitpic.com/b1zwzo


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 7, 2012)

they have to act up in order to get publicity, otherwise its just some blokes near a mosque!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2012)

hmmm ...
http://extremisproject.org/2012/10/the-english-defence-league-edl-what-do-people-think/


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2012)

Suggests to me that the edl are lagging behind that section of the population who are have bought the Islam bogey. Which means that there simply isn't the backing for a BNP mark 1 party today, despite the ongoing crisis. That form of dissent is going to have put on a suit, and in that race the BNP are still miles ahead despite recent problems. That segment of the vote is going to mainstream parties - hopefully (from their view) with a protectionist bent.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2012)

latest Malatesta! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2012)

Corrected for you:



malatesta32 said:


> latest Malatesta!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/sunderland-others/


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## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2012)

ha ha thanks mate!


----------



## krink (Oct 8, 2012)

here's a report by a sunderland anarchist comrade and friend of mine who was on the demo saturday. i think it's the only accurate description I have seen on-line so far.

http://neanarchists.com/fashattack.html

*just for clarity, no, it's not by me and i'm not a member of nea.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2012)

good report! and good on the asian youths too.


----------



## cesare (Oct 8, 2012)

Why does the UAF want to be in charge, then?


----------



## Gary Fiennes-H (Oct 8, 2012)

Couple of updates from the Casuals

http://casualsunitednortheast.wordp...-in-europe-built-under-the-noses-of-patriots/


http://casualsunitednortheast.wordp...t-and-some-greeks-edl-greeks-nazis-rotherham/


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2012)

G, perhaps a disclaimer is required here!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 9, 2012)

*Survey Reveals EDL Support Base is Potentially 7 Million Strong*

that must be why there was so many at walthamstow then.


----------



## articul8 (Oct 9, 2012)

Like I am potentially goalkeeper for Arsenal


----------



## The Black Hand (Oct 9, 2012)

aLSO a political commentary on recent happenings in Sunderland; http://neanarchists.com/antifapolitics.html

See the website for other similar stories too.


----------



## Streathamite (Oct 9, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> all on here feller! http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


fine work! 
see you there.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 10, 2012)

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...detailed-edl-research-now-with-added-bfp-spin


----------



## albionism (Oct 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> latest Malatesta!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


would you mind if i put a link to your blog on my facebook page? I think it's a good read
and want as many others as possible to read it, particularly relatives of mine who i have
"friended" but who i hardly really know, who have somewhat fucked up views.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 10, 2012)

albionism said:


> would you mind if i put a link to your blog on my facebook page? I think it's a good read
> and want as many others as possible to read it, particularly relatives of mine who i have
> "friended" but who i hardly really know, who have somewhat fucked up views.


yeah course, its all copyright free so link away!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 10, 2012)

plod okay with EDL marching thru walthamstow. no threat they say after last time and walsall??????
http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/9975808.WALTHAMSTOW__Police_will_not_apply_for_EDL_march_ban/


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> plod okay with EDL marching thru walthamstow. no threat they say after last time and walsall??????
> http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/9975808.WALTHAMSTOW__Police_will_not_apply_for_EDL_march_ban/


think of the overtime...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 10, 2012)

They were recently boasting how they'd be going back to Walthamstow without plod protection.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 10, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> think of the overtime...


 
becoming a bit of the past now with the Lib-Tory cuts


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> becoming a bit of the past now with the Lib-Tory cuts


by no means. the fewer plod there are - because of the cuts - the more overtime there'll be to go round


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 10, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> by no means. the fewer plod there are - because of the cuts - the more overtime there'll be to go round


 
you need to get into demand management approaches


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> you need to get into demand management approaches


speaking personally, i find that demanding management results in a worse state of affairs than the status quo ante.


----------



## krink (Oct 11, 2012)

from what i've heard they don't use overtime much - they get other areas to help and they cancel all leave. which will result in cops being even more miserable twats than usual.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

yeah, they draft in several different forces for these things as they cannot cope! all of the counter-demos ive been on ive noted at least 3 different areas.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 11, 2012)




----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

from Rosa at the march for engerland flop in brighton: 4 plod mobs! 
'Plod from Sussex needed help from Hampshire, Thames Valley and Surrey as they obviously cannot handle the workload and so a load of money was spent on outside forces’ overtime for which I am sure the locals will thank the local chief constable.'


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 11, 2012)

I spotted a meat wagon from Nottinghamshire constabulary on that day!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> They were recently boasting how they'd be going back to Walthamstow without plod protection.


 
of course, didnt you know 'they go where they want,when they want.' as long as its okay with plod!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 11, 2012)

https://twitter.com/EDLTrobinson

Tommy has quit the BFP


----------



## where to (Oct 11, 2012)

And seems to admit the edl are going nowhere.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://twitter.com/EDLTrobinson
> 
> Tommy has quit the BFP


 
but they were doing so well!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

bizarre quote 'He is EDL, not political and wants to stay that way.'


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

EDL News on it already! 
http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...binson-resigns-from-the-british-freedom-party


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

apparently 
Tommy Robinson has decided to stand down from his position with British Freedom in order to concentrate fully on the English Defence League. This decision has been made after much deliberation and is fully supported by the Party and the EDL joint leader and British Freedom Vice Chairman, Kevin Carroll. Tommy has recognised that his heart and strengths lie within the Street Protest Movements. Kevin is rapidly developing an impressive political profile and has a great deal to offer in the political arena. He is well respected within the EDL and within British Freedom and will continue to play a significant role in both. Kevin will remain as Deputy Chairman of British Freedom and will continue as joint Leader of the EDL. Both organisations share many core values and will continue to support each other’s work. This change will offer a two pronged approach that will complement our joint objectives. The greatest achievements of both organisations are yet to come.

*so being a wife beating convicted football hooligan and bad press magnet has nothing to do with it then? *


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL News on it already!
> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...binson-resigns-from-the-british-freedom-party


Not working for me - did you forget to stick a 50p in the meter?


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## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

arse! arse! arse! why am i like this mr C?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 11, 2012)

Uncle Kev's send a crack squad of cyber commandos down the internet tubes to sabotage opposition voices


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 11, 2012)

'EDL to be turned into political party'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...an-elections-says-tommy-robinson-8207698.html


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 11, 2012)

Do any of the EDL watchers have any idea what the Rotherham demo on Saturday is likely to be like? I'm gonna go down to take a look cos it's local and I've not been to any anti edl stuff since the total and utter fuckup in Bolton which must have been about 2 years ago now so it would be nice if I could get some idea of what to expect.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

they are calling it a local demo as they know they will get less than 200 there and it is doubtful they will have as many as at walsall. rotherham has a large asian community so i shd think some of the youth arent gonna be amused, UAF are organising and there will be no doubt be antifascist folk from sheffield and other areas heading there. plod are well versed in crowd control as they went thru the pit strike. if you can get any pics we will stick em on the blog!!! the bitter round there is stones' and one of the few english ales i can stomach tho its never as good as 80/ in auld reekie.


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## The39thStep (Oct 11, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'EDL to be turned into political party'
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...an-elections-says-tommy-robinson-8207698.html


 
Are they thinking of opening a coffee bar?


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## The39thStep (Oct 11, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> they are calling it a local demo as they know they will get less than 200 there and it is doubtful they will have as many as at walsall. rotherham has a large asian community so i shd think some of the youth arent gonna be amused, UAF are organising and there will be no doubt be antifascist folk from sheffield and other areas heading there. plod are well versed in crowd control as they went thru the pit strike. if you can get any pics we will stick em on the blog!!! the bitter round there is stones' and one of the few english ales i can stomach tho its never as good as 80/ in auld reekie.


 
I imagine the plod are retired now


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## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'EDL to be turned into political party'
> 
> so yet another one to go with all the other acronyms. thanks to antifascists onlinefor the following!
> *BNP – British National Party*
> ...


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## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I imagine the plod are retired now


 
im sure they are but the strike was a real shift on policing methods, equipment, riot gear etc. there are some in rothers that are still angry over it!


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## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Are they thinking of opening a coffee bar?


no theyre going to open a brewery and try to organise a piss up in it.


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 12, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> they are calling it a local demo as they know they will get less than 200 there and it is doubtful they will have as many as at walsall. rotherham has a large asian community so i shd think some of the youth arent gonna be amused, UAF are organising and there will be no doubt be antifascist folk from sheffield and other areas heading there. plod are well versed in crowd control as they went thru the pit strike. if you can get any pics we will stick em on the blog!!! the bitter round there is stones' and one of the few english ales i can stomach tho its never as good as 80/ in auld reekie.


 
Cheers.

There's a coachload going from Sheffield but I'm going on the bus cos I don't want to get tied to the UAF. I'll take the camera and get some pics - if anything interesting happens I'll try and video it if you want that too. The old bill round here aren't as bad as some when it comes to the policing of demos - definitely better than the met and the Manchester lot.

Just on a point of interest it's worth noting that a lot of the policing during the strike was done by coppers from elsewhere, a couple of my uncles were on strike and they reckon the baton happy types often had non-local accents.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 12, 2012)

EDL News site is down for some reason.

It did have a piece saying this: 

"Insiders to the party have told us that Robinson and the EDL were becoming a rather large liability after members of the English Defence League smashed up a pub beer garden in Walsall last weekend and used the debris to attack the police.

This is obviously not good for the party image when they are running Tommy's cousin, Kevin Carroll, to be elected as Bedfordshire Police Commissioner."


- Did Cokeboy jump, or was he pushed?

Plenty more to say on this but the letter "z" beckons in quantity.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 12, 2012)

taff, he's been fucking up very badly of late. the bristol debacle where he was too blootered, his criminal record and the criminal charges he is facing which will not be great, his increasing erratic behavior - did you see the last video?????? - and the walthamstow and walsall great PR disasters. walthamstow 2 is going to be even more embarassing for them. also he failed to deliver the EDL vote to the fluffies. k.k.kev is sidling out of EDL to do proper politics. the edl has always been one big vanity project for tommy and now he is the last man standing with a seriously depleted force. the policy now wd be to get more radical as they dont have to worry about the fluffies. however, he has lost tons of credibility. also see above for the ever growing list of grupuscules.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 12, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Cheers.
> 
> There's a coachload going from Sheffield but I'm going on the bus cos I don't want to get tied to the UAF. I'll take the camera and get some pics - if anything interesting happens I'll try and video it if you want that too. The old bill round here aren't as bad as some when it comes to the policing of demos - definitely better than the met and the Manchester lot.
> 
> Just on a point of interest it's worth noting that a lot of the policing during the strike was done by coppers from elsewhere, a couple of my uncles were on strike and they reckon the baton happy types often had non-local accents.


 
yeah i think local busses are great for 2 reasons: 1 not getting kettled in with uaf, and 2, not getting stopped by plod if you go in mob handed! we are happy to put up pics (and captions, text etc) if you get some. this is the blog and it gets lots of hits: 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/
re; plod. yes there were many bussed in from elsewhere, 1 of the reasons was i recall that SY plod lived in same areas as miners and, off duty, life cd be made very difficult for em. looks like they're still bussing other forces in as well for saturday. enjoy and stay in touch!


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## malatesta32 (Oct 12, 2012)

those were the days! the happy days!


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## malatesta32 (Oct 12, 2012)

with thanks to batty lee barnes, info on mr tommys involvement with the BNP in luton! thanks Lee (BA. hons), it seems he did more than 'go to just 1 meeting with loads of black lads'
If it hadn't been for Stephen Yaxley-Lennon the Luton Branch of the BNP would have struggled to find a place to meet. It was YL who negotiated with the landlord of the King Harry public house in Luton to provide a meeting place for the branch to meet in its heyday, which was 2006/7, when meetings regularly attracted 100 people. The BNP's leadership attacks on the EDL has just about killed off the local branch. People who risked a lot, physically and in many other ways to stand up and be counted have been thoroughly demoralised.


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 12, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> re; plod. yes there were many bussed in from elsewhere, 1 of the reasons was i recall that SY plod lived in same areas as miners and, off duty, life cd be made very difficult for em. looks like they're still bussing other forces in as well for saturday. enjoy and stay in touch!


 
I think there was more to it than that. A lot of local coppers had friends and family on strike, they were from the communities that were being destroyed. I think the authorities were more concerned about them being too be sympathetic to the strikers than them being harrassed - especially as strikers harrassing "honest local bobbies" would have been a propaganda coup for Thatcher.

Not that it really matters now.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2012)

EDL plot up in The County pub in Rothers (a dump by the way), are taken 200 yards down the road by plod and the sent home. piss poor. they called it a 'local demo' cos they knew a national 1 wd be the same sieze. bugles!


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## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2012)

any news spiney? hope not hate reporting 300 or so, kettled at the county boozer, marched up the hill and down again. 850 plod. UAF in other side of town (where else).


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## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2012)

good pix: 
http://www.rightnow.io/breaking-news/rotherham-edl-uaf_bn_1350122114832.html
but alarming caption!!! 
UAF stewards actively working with police, blocking local activists from breaking through to EDL are in Rotherham


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## krink (Oct 13, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> UAF stewards actively working with police, blocking local activists from breaking through to EDL are in Rotherham


 

that's what they do though. they aren't there to defeat fascism, they're there to be in control. i had my first experience of proper swp/uaf the other week and I have to say I was shocked how many of the comic parodies about them were actually true.

i was talking to youths who were getting abuse/rocks/fireworks thrown at them. I was trying to persuade them to wait for better opportunity, don't do anything when you're being filmed by plod, stick together, don't waste your energy pushing cop lines that aint budging etc etc. basically tactics to keep them safe from fash and cops. swp/uaf lot were basically telling them not to do anything at all in the face of bottles/fireworks/abuse...just get behind the banner oh, and did they want a paper?


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 13, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> UAF stewards actively working with police


 
In other news, bear found shitting in the woods


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 13, 2012)

Nothing of any real interest to report - it was exactly what we were expecting. I'd say the numbers on here are about right - 200-250 EDL, about the same number of antifascists, though the numbers were improved a bit at the end when some local lads, mostly but not all Asian, joined in.

No pics I'm afraid - hardly saw them all day cos I ended up in the UAF pen. Could see them at the rally point before they marched though so I know the numbers are about right. Usual UAF speakers - labour councillors, the MP, couple of vicars etc. No trouble whatsoever anywhere as far as I could tell, and I did ask a few coppers if they'd seen anything. I can confirm that UAF stewards were working very closely with the police and assisted them in keeping everyone in the pen (or at least trying to - one side was open but to get round to the EDL you'd have had to walk right around past loads of coppers. A small group tried it at one point but just got kettled round the corner.

One thing that got my goat though - suggestions from UAF speakers that "we'd" humiliated the EDL. Nobody on nodding terms with reality could have believed that. They didn't even see us I don't think and before UAF went up to "reclaim" the town square they had to wait for the police to disperse the EDL. If UAF had humiliated them why did we need the old bill to shift them? Also UAF claiming there were only 70 EDL when anyone with a pair of eyes could see it was well over double that.

One interesting thing that I've not seen before (though it's a while since I went to an antifascist demo so it might not be new) - when I arrived in the square the UAF were in there were a couple of big fellas walking around in yellow bibs. I thought it was odd cos really didn't look like typical UAF stewards. Then I noticed they had something like "nationalist security UK" on their backs - it was the fash come over to scope it out. I was on my own at that point and they were bigger than me so I made a tactical decision to do fuck all about it and they buggered off. Does anyone know anything about them? Are they hired out for cash to steward far right demos or is it just small group of fash who take themselves way too seriously?

But nobody got hurt or died so it wasn't a disaster.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2012)

norm! is it okay to use some of this on the blog for tomorrows round -up?


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## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 13, 2012)

Irish community in Liverpool and from further afield marched today in Liverpool city centre - usual suspects in form of National Front, NWI and CxF turned up to hurl abuse and anti-IRA songs.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> N
> 
> One interesting thing that I've not seen before (though it's a while since I went to an antifascist demo so it might not be new) - when I arrived in the square the UAF were in there were a couple of big fellas walking around in yellow bibs. I thought it was odd cos really didn't look like typical UAF stewards. Then I noticed they had something like "nationalist security UK" on their backs - it was the fash come over to scope it out. I was on my own at that point and they were bigger than me so I made a tactical decision to do fuck all about it and they buggered off. Does anyone know anything about them? Are they hired out for cash to steward far right demos or is it just small group of fash who take themselves way too seriously?r.


 
this is a new one for us. i think they cd just be the regular orangu-stewards come in to check out the oppo. they havent got any money to pay for security and also, given the fevered testosterone atmosphere, getting big lads in to protect EDL may be a bit weedy! there was some posters on the EDL forum saying they shd have 'proper security' but that's about it. and cheers for the report!


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## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Irish community in Liverpool and from further afield marched today in Liverpool city centre - usual suspects in form of National Front, NWI and CxF turned up to hurl abuse and anti-IRA songs.


 
how many mate? saw some pix earlier as usual outside a pub and there was 2 goons. how many on march and fash?


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## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2012)

wrighty speaks!


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## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 13, 2012)

Hard to guess, I am rubbish at the numbers game. Got some photos, will stick up a link once I've edited them.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 13, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> One interesting thing that I've not seen before (though it's a while since I went to an antifascist demo so it might not be new) - when I arrived in the square the UAF were in there were a couple of big fellas walking around in yellow bibs. I thought it was odd cos really didn't look like typical UAF stewards. Then I noticed they had something like "nationalist security UK" on their backs - it was the fash come over to scope it out. I was on my own at that point and they were bigger than me so I made a tactical decision to do fuck all about it and they buggered off. Does anyone know anything about them? Are they hired out for cash to steward far right demos or is it just small group of fash who take themselves way too seriously?


 
That's interesting. That's new. Worth keeping an eye out for them in future. Shame you didn't get a few pics. I was invited to go along by a good friend of mine, but I declined coz a) better things to do on a saturday afternoon and b) I've had too many shitty experiences with UAF arseholes bossing me about, police sticking camera's in my face and making me give my address etc to bother

I asked him what it was like, he said he'd managed to avoid getting stuck in the UAF pen, and that there was more than 250-300 he said over 500 EDL but he also said a lot of them pissed off when the footie started. Also mentioned that the train station was surrounded by riot police and they were stopping the general public from getting through at sometime around 5pm.

As for the rest of you're account, sounds exactly like what I experienced last few UAF demo's I've been on, in Dewsbury. Both times me and a select few pals had been wandering around the back alleys of Dewsbury keeping an eye out for groups of fash who strayed out of their cage, before being pounced on by a load of cops and told that we'd all be arrested coz of Section something-or-other unless we agreed to spend the rest of the day in the UAF pen. Twice this has happened for me, and after the second time I swore I'd never waste another moment of my life in the company of UAF.

And when I was in the UAF pen pretty much everyone else there was there for the same reasons, none out of choice, all been made to go there by the police under pain of arrest. So not only are the UAF co-operating with the police, as they always do, the police are reciprocating and delivering UAF a captive audience for their shitty gazebo paper sales.

Anyway I'm off to Sheffield tonight so I'll get chance to speak to some of the people who were there, i'll report back owt interesting.


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## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2012)

How come everyone in bristol managed to do what they wanted all day without getting penned with the trots?


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 13, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> How come everyone in bristol managed to do what they wanted all day without getting penned with the trots?


 
Because Bristol Anti-fascists are much harder, better organised and more committed than us lot. Obviously.


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## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2012)

So you've been on two things and each time you ended up in some UAF pen? You and you select few 'hunters'?


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## cesare (Oct 13, 2012)

Policing tactics prob different in Bristol.


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## Ranbay (Oct 13, 2012)

http://instagram.com/p/QuKHd2ITZB/

LOL


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## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2012)

Nah, they just thickos elsewhere.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 13, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> So you've been on two things and each time you ended up in some UAF pen?


 
I've been rounded up by police and kettled against my will on like half a dozen occasions now. It's a right pain in the arse. It makes any kind of effective anti-fascist shit practically impossible. And on a few of those occasions I had my name, address, photograph and DNA taken in the street. Which isn't nice.

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that we'll never get much chance to get amongst 'em on these big demo's full of police and cameras in town centres covered by CCTV. The whole thing is just a charade.

EDIT: Maybe that possibility exists in Bristol, in which case best of luck, but it definitely doesn't exist up here. EDL demo's are just becoming like a dull routine up here now, especially in places like Rochdale, the North-East, Dewsbury where some groupsicle or another has a demo every few weeks it seems. It's very different now to what it was like 18 months ago.

But this is giving far too much thought and time to a post that really doesn't deserve it, so I'll leave it there.



butchersapron said:


> You and you select few 'hunters'


 
Preatorian Guard comrade.


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## cesare (Oct 13, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Nah, they just thickos elsewhere.


I'm pig ignorant on this (obv) but button's just explained that there's far bigger tradition of anti-fash in Bristol than e.g. Liverpool. More likely in Bristol to hurl bricks rather than stand by banners chanting "nazi scum off our streets" etc.


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## cesare (Oct 13, 2012)

Delroy;  kettling, photos etc just normal, part of spotting what's going on in advance and avoid.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 13, 2012)

cesare said:


> Delroy; kettling, photos etc just normal, part of spotting what's going on in advance and avoid.


 
Yeah I know, I don't wanna whinge too much I'll end up sounding like those EDL who ended up shitting themselves in Walthamstowe when they were kettled. Christ they love to whinge, total crybabies. Even the students who got kettled on Westminster bridge for hours last year had more stoicism than these double-hard EDL dickheads.


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## cesare (Oct 13, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Yeah I know, I don't wanna whinge too much I'll end up sounding like those EDL who ended up shitting themselves in Walthamstowe when they were kettled. Christ they love to whinge, total crybabies. Even the students who got kettled on Westminster bridge for hours last year had more stoicism than these double-hard EDL dickheads.


The cops police according to what they expect.


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## CyberRose (Oct 13, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL plot up in The County pub in Rothers (a dump by the way)


The pub or the town is a dump?


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## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 13, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> how many mate? saw some pix earlier as usual outside a pub and there was 2 goons. how many on march and fash?


 
Photos from earlier


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## joyce (Oct 14, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Nothing of any real interest to report - it was exactly what we were expecting. I'd say the numbers on here are about right - 200-250 EDL, about the same number of antifascists, though the numbers were improved a bit at the end when some local lads, mostly but not all Asian, joined in.
> 
> No pics I'm afraid - hardly saw them all day cos I ended up in the UAF pen. Could see them at the rally point before they marched though so I know the numbers are about right. Usual UAF speakers - labour councillors, the MP, couple of vicars etc. No trouble whatsoever anywhere as far as I could tell, and I did ask a few coppers if they'd seen anything. I can confirm that UAF stewards were working very closely with the police and assisted them in keeping everyone in the pen (or at least trying to - one side was open but to get round to the EDL you'd have had to walk right around past loads of coppers. A small group tried it at one point but just got kettled round the corner.
> 
> ...


 ITV reported 300 EDL and 150 anti fascist counter protesters http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2012-10-13/3-arrests-at-edl-demo/


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## The39thStep (Oct 14, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I've been rounded up by police and kettled against my will on like half a dozen occasions now. It's a right pain in the arse. It makes any kind of effective anti-fascist shit practically impossible. And on a few of those occasions I had my name, address, photograph and DNA taken in the street. Which isn't nice.
> 
> *I came to the conclusion a long time ago that we'll never get much chance to get amongst 'em on these big demo's full of police and cameras in town centres covered by CCTV. The whole thing is just a charade.*
> 
> ...


 
Er wasn't that a similar conclusion to AFA's analysis nearly  20 years ago?


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 14, 2012)

joyce said:


> ITV reported 300 EDL and 150 anti fascist counter protesters http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2012-10-13/3-arrests-at-edl-demo/


 
That could easily be right tbh, though there were definitely more than 150 antifascists at the end when they went up to the town hall and I would have guessed more than that in the square but I could be wrong. 300 EDL sounds reasonable though, it was just bizarre hearing the UAF speaker say there were only 70 when you could see there were at the very least a couple of hundred marching past.

Just to clarify, the reason I ended up in the UAF pen (it wasn't really a pen to be honest, one end was open and I went out to have a gander a couple of times) was because I wanted to. I went down to take a look more than anything, to see what UAF demos are like now - whether they've changed their tactics etc since I last went to one (they haven't really, apart from becoming more police friendly than they were in Bolton) and to have a general look around. It would have been incredibly irresponsible for me to have gone looking for physical confrontations because I was with a couple of students (who I don't think have ever been in a fight in their lives and would have been battered) and a couple of middle aged women, to say they aren't streetfighters would be an understatement.


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## joyce (Oct 14, 2012)

some of locals came out and supported the UAF demo in Rotherham against the EDL


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## malatesta32 (Oct 14, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> One interesting thing that I've not seen before (though it's a while since I went to an antifascist demo so it might not be new) - when I arrived in the square the UAF were in there were a couple of big fellas walking around in yellow bibs. I thought it was odd cos really didn't look like typical UAF stewards. Then I noticed they had something like "nationalist security UK" on their backs - it was the fash come over to scope it out. I was on my own at that point and they were bigger than me so I made a tactical decision to do fuck all about it and they buggered off. Does anyone know anything about them? Are they hired out for cash to steward far right demos or is it just small group of fash who take themselves way too seriously?]
> 
> this is the usual EDL quality steward! the EDL love to attack their own!


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## malatesta32 (Oct 14, 2012)

CyberRose said:


> The pub or the town is a dump?


the pub, was known as a bit of dodgy venue yonks ago. rothers is okay tho. i like the bitter there.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 14, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Photos from earlier


 
2 things: why call for capital punishment? its a waste of time. 2, why IRA? havent they disbanded? clueless fuckbugles.


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## CyberRose (Oct 14, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the pub, was known as a bit of dodgy venue yonks ago. rothers is okay tho. i like the bitter there.


Just checking, it wasn't obvious from your earlier post (also, never heard anyone say "Rothers"!)


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## malatesta32 (Oct 14, 2012)

apologies for confusion. spent many an evening at the stag boozer on the roundabout but never 'dared' to go in the county. i think it was burnt down once. not sure tho ...


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## where to (Oct 14, 2012)

malatesta32 said:
			
		

> 2 things: why call for capital punishment? its a waste of time. 2, why IRA? havent they disbanded? clueless fuckbugles.



It's the message though isn't it.


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## Ranbay (Oct 14, 2012)




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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 14, 2012)

edlnews site account suspended?

http://www.statscrop.com/www/edlnews.co.uk


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## Ranbay (Oct 14, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> edlnews site account suspended?
> 
> http://www.statscrop.com/www/edlnews.co.uk


 
Back in a day or so


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 14, 2012)

Ahh, ok. Right wing bone heads on twitter cheering about it


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## Corax (Oct 14, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> edlnews site account suspended?
> 
> http://www.statscrop.com/www/edlnews.co.uk


 


> The server distance from you is 0.00 km (0.00 miles)


 
_*I'm*_ hosting EDLNews?


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## HST (Oct 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Er wasn't that a similar conclusion to AFA's analysis nearly 20 years ago?


I think that 20 years ago the far right had pretty much given up marching due to AFA's very active opposition.


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## The39thStep (Oct 14, 2012)

HST said:


> I think that 20 years ago the far right had pretty much given up marching due to AFA's very active opposition.


 
you are right but surely you remember all of the discussion


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## HST (Oct 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> you are right but surely you remember all of the discussion


Nope.


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## malatesta32 (Oct 15, 2012)

latest 'malatesta'
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/10/15/what-a-weekend-or-not/


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## Fingers (Oct 16, 2012)




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## Das Uberdog (Oct 17, 2012)

i know i started this thread and everything, but videos like this make me wonder who the real enemy is...

(it's from Bristol SWSS)

Hate Music, Hate Racism


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2012)

Good
fucking
lord


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 17, 2012)

subversive fire my new favourite band


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## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2012)

I think that is the SWP entering the final stages of degeneration: from this
 

to 



in 27 short years.


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## Das Uberdog (Oct 17, 2012)

just wait for track two, 'nazi scum off our streets' to the tune of 'build a bonfire'


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## The39thStep (Oct 17, 2012)

rock n'roll .Hallo Counterfire cafe


----------



## Das Uberdog (Oct 17, 2012)

finally, all the fun of demo chants in an enjoyable rock 'n roll format.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2012)

The name _subversive fire_ sort of reminds me of


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 17, 2012)

saw the redskins in the middle of the miners strike, one of the best gigs i've ever seen!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 17, 2012)

or skins without tats as they shd have been called.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 17, 2012)




----------



## renegadechicken (Oct 18, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




love the song  real proper music to riot too that is


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> 2 things: why call for capital punishment? its a waste of time. 2, why IRA? havent they disbanded? clueless fuckbugles.


 
So the NWI and NF are planning a demo on 3rd Nov and LiverAF countering


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> saw the redskins in the middle of the miners strike, one of the best gigs i've ever seen!


 
used to live next door to them!


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> saw the redskins in the middle of the miners strike, one of the best gigs i've ever seen!


 
This was the best song I heard in the miners strike


----------



## albionism (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> or skins without tats as they shd have been called.



I remember them getting attacked by class traitor skinheads
at a GLC gig in London


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 18, 2012)

albionism said:


> I remember them getting attacked by class traitor skinheads
> at a GLC gig in London


 
By a fair size group of  NF .I think X.Moores last words were 'you are worse than the fucking Tories'. Some RA members dealt with some of them in the crowd. I got arrested at Waterloo station when we chased them and gave some a hiding. Got found not guilty!

The NF turned up with Kick Over the Redskin T shirts outside NME where Chris was still still working at the time.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 18, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> used to live next door to them!


 
what happened to the singer? he was NME scribe, in the skins then disappeared. to paris or summat?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 18, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> By a fair size group of NF .I think X.Moores last words were 'you are worse than the fucking Tories'. Some RA members dealt with some of them in the crowd. I got arrested at Waterloo station when we chased them and gave some a hiding. Got found not guilty!
> 
> The NF turned up with Kick Over the Redskin T shirts outside NME where Chris was still still working at the time.


 
yeah beating the fascists has the full story. me cousin was there with the kids and was freaked by it but i told him recently what RA had done and he 'got closure.'


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> what happened to the singer? he was NME scribe, in the skins then disappeared. to paris or summat?


 
He had a project called P-Funk after the Redskins but it didn't come to anything. I think the consensus is Paris, then the States as he wanted to get into acting. Then I think back to France to write a book. Last I heard about three years ago he was rumoured to be back in York.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 18, 2012)

This was one of their better /earlier songs


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 18, 2012)

i dont remember much of his stuff at NME as i was sounds (big bushell fan me!). still thought they were fab tho!


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 18, 2012)

I blame the redskins for making me join the SWP.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2012)

barney_pig said:


> I blame the redskins for making me join the SWP.


but you got better


----------



## krink (Oct 18, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


>




By about half way through that I was even considering joining the edl. it was only the edl's own awful vid that bob posted that brought me round again


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 18, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> but you got better


took me long enough!
 I got better but obviously wasn't clever.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 18, 2012)

eddie 'the assassin' morrison keen on relaunching the national action party and the national culturists new party are also joining the following eejits: 

*BNP – British National Party*
*EDL – English Defence League*
*BPP – British Peoples Party*
*NF – National Front*
*RVF – Racial Volunteer Force*
*ASF – Aryan Strike Force*
*EDP – English Democratic Party*
*BF – Britain First*
*BFP – British Freedom Party*
*EVF – English Volunteer Force*
*BPA – British Patriot Alliance*
*SDL – Scottish Defence League*
*NWI – North West Infidels*
*NEI – North East Infidels*
*CxF – Combined ex Forces*
*CxS – Combined ex Services*
*ENA – English Nationalist Alliance*
*NPA – New Patriot Alliance.*
*JPF – See Here for further info*
*DNP – Democratic Nationalists Party*
*B+H – Blood and Honour*
*C18 – Combat 18*
*BM – British Movement*
*N9S – November 9th Society *
*FD – Freedom Democrats*
*NWA – Nationalist Welfare Association*


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> eddie 'the assassin' morrison keen on relaunching the national action party and the national culturists new party are also joining the following eejits:
> 
> *BNP – British National Party*
> *EDL – English Defence League*
> ...


why don't they just launch something perhaps called the new party and fucking have done with it


----------



## cesare (Oct 18, 2012)

"Here"


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 18, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> why don't they just launch something perhaps called the new party and fucking have done with it


 
what, like this?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> what, like this?


that's the one.

classier than fucking griffin or yaxley-lennon

there could be a mr cholmondley-warner voice over


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 18, 2012)

this mosley lookalike cd do the VO:


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> this mosley lookalike cd do the VO:


i thought for a moment that was the bloody white baron, ungern-sternberg 

instead, it's that nice terry-thomas.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 18, 2012)

_Hard cheese!_


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 18, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




united. standing together. i dont think so. that is truly poor.


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 18, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> _Hard cheese!_


That was mine...scoundrel!!


----------



## audiotech (Oct 18, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> saw the redskins in the middle of the miners strike, one of the best gigs i've ever seen!


 
As I did at a benefit for miners in South Yorkshire and at Leeds University, with some fascists boneheads up in the gallery threatening violence, which turned out to be idle threats, as they quickly exited and disappeared.


----------



## audiotech (Oct 18, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> in 27 short years.


 
That second video is absolutely dire.

There was also this in '79:


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 19, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> i know i started this thread and everything, but videos like this make me wonder who the real enemy is...
> 
> (it's from Bristol SWSS)
> 
> Hate Music, Hate Racism




Phew, that's enough to drive the EDl to drink. It's UAF's new secret weapon, a sort of incentivator to break out of a kettle "by any means necessary". All they have to do is play it over the PA and voila, people will become so incensed they will start charging the police en masse to escape.
Anyway, it's inspiration must surely come from this tune which I once saw cause a stampede to the exit, in a pub


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm not sure a ring of the corpses of the various remnants of the racial nationalist groups would stretch right round the black pyramid


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 19, 2012)

along with the national action party and the national culturists, there is also england first. unite the right? Yeah, right! 


*NP – British National Party*
*EDL – English Defence League*
*BPP – British Peoples Party*
*NF – National Front*
*RVF – Racial Volunteer Force*
*ASF – Aryan Strike Force*
*EDP – English Democratic Party*
*BF – Britain First*
*BFP – British Freedom Party*
*EVF – English Volunteer Force*
*BPA – British Patriot Alliance*
*SDL – Scottish Defence League*
*NWI – North West Infidels*
*NEI – North East Infidels*
*CxF – Combined ex Forces*
*CxS – Combined ex Services*
*ENA – English Nationalist Alliance*
*NPA – New Patriot Alliance.*
*JPF – See Here for further info*
*DNP – Democratic Nationalists Party*
*B+H – Blood and Honour*
*C18 – Combat 18*
*BM – British Movement*
*N9S – November 9th Society *
*FD – Freedom Democrats*
*NWA – Nationalist Welfare Association*


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

Has anyone got one of those lists for the Left?


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 19, 2012)

should be on the workers' power have split thread


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

JPF would have to go on that one too, tbf.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 19, 2012)

what's jpf?


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> what's jpf?


See in mal's list, with link.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 19, 2012)

interesting? 
http://myplacefp7.wordpress.com/2012/09/04/when-is-a-kettle-not-a-kettle-when-it-is-on-slow-boil/


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 20, 2012)

walthamstow call of EDL march ban
http://www.london24.com/news/politi...ned_from_marching_in_waltham_forest_1_1663252


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 20, 2012)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/...l-supporters-held-after-police-motorway-sting

Fifty three members of English Defence League members were arrested on the M1 this afternoon whilst allegedly travelling to target a mosque London.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 21, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/...l-supporters-held-after-police-motorway-sting
> 
> Fifty three members of English Defence League members were arrested on the M1 this afternoon whilst allegedly travelling to target a mosque London.


 
Wow. Wonder how plod found out about that? Did EDL News or Hope Not Hate tip them off or what?

This seems like proper desperate stuff. I swear Stephen Lennon's got a martyrdom complex.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 21, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Wow. Wonder how plod found out about that? Did EDL News or Hope Not Hate tip them off or what?
> 
> This seems like proper desperate stuff. I swear Stephen Lennon's got a martyrdom complex.


 
EDL member grassed them all up direct to some antis  , old bill called and they stepped in and nicked em all 

Didn't help that Tommy was going on about "lads day" and "all or nothing this Saturday" on his twatter feed.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 21, 2012)

I saw that. What a fucking clown. This is what I mean by martyrdom complex, someone who didn't want to get caught wouldn't say stupid things like that. Any excuse to go out in a blaze of glory.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 21, 2012)

Trying to prove he's the man to get people back to demos, next week is all but fucked after this


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 21, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Trying to prove he's the man to get people back to demos, next week is all but fucked after this


 
What were they thinking? They could all end up going to jail for years on the back of this ffs. Absolutely insane.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 21, 2012)

He's been losing it for months, he's fucked his life over for nothing. For him it's all or nothing now, the others? Just thick as fuck sheepole if you ask me.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 21, 2012)

yes he has been losing it. he is under serious pressure with little or no professional/political backing, he is acting more erratically. this recent arrest was a total blunder. next week even worse.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2012)

Does anyone really think the nickings wasn't the intention?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 21, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> EDL member grassed them all up direct to some antis  , old bill called and they stepped in and nicked em all.


 
in the name if responsible journalism, can we qualify that statement in any way (before we publish the cheap salacious details!!!). butchers, do you really think mr tommy set up a sting on his own guys? if so, what is the benefit? or is he being told to boost arrest or summat?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 21, 2012)

mr tommy, karaoke kev and lord paul weston ll nicked apparently. and the BFP and PCC campaign was going so well!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...37870051.46403.145019135549768&type=1&theater


----------



## Dreich (Oct 21, 2012)

If he got deliberately arrested and presumably bailed, would this be a way of bowing out from the inevitable debacle in Wathlamstow next weekend? Could be, though I've not sure if he'd have the capacity for that amount of forward planning...


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 21, 2012)

have to see if they're charged first. i shall keep an eye out!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 21, 2012)

reposting EDL News' full story! someone had been dropping serious hints about arctic lorries all week. and as usual it all went horribly wrong! 

Another day and more arrests from the lunatics of the EDL. The self proclaimed leader of the EDL, SYL, and 53 others were arrested today after the police out-stepped them once more. They were arrested on the M1 this afternoon, allegedly on their way to target a mosque in London. The EDL goons met up at a pub in Hithcin, Hertfordshire - then boarded a white removal van. But the good old plod knew the plans before hand and were lying in wait at the motorway. Police in riot vans pulled the van over and did the honourable thing, mass arresting the moronic fools.The apparent grand plan was that since the police would be supposedly stretched at the TUC demo, the EDL master minds would use a trojan horse and do their naughty deed thinking police wouldn't bother. How wrong they were.
_Among those arrested are EDL leader Tommy Robinson aka Stephen Yaxley Lennon and we also believe that Deputy leader Kevin Carroll who is also running for the Police commissioner's position in Bedfordshire on behalf of the EDL's political wing, the British Freedom Party has also been arrested as well as leader of the British Freedom Party, Paul Weston. __It is alleged that the hired vehicles were to be used as a Trojan horses in order to get large amount of fascists near to their targets quickly and efficiently. __This stunt is thought to have been carried out to boost Tommy Robinson's profile after a series of disastrous demonstrations, most noticeably in Walthamstow, east London where they were escorted out of the area for their own safety whilst Tommy, Kev and Paul Weston disappeared back to Luton, leaving the 200 or so that has turned up mass arrested for hours and stranded in the Capital._rest of the article ::_http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/877-tommy-and-kev-held-after-police-motorway-sting_


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 21, 2012)

> *#vangate update. 53 members of the EDL have been bailed with restrictions on them entering east London. They go where they want until the police tell them they cannot.
> 
> This means that Tommy, Kev and Weston will not be able to attend the Walthamstow demo which may have been the plan all along and if that is the case, that is a surrender right there.*


 
Is what i hear.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 21, 2012)

Tommy us out on bail and is being done for assault on Sayful Islam and another charge of fraud relating to his trip to america according to his twitter


----------



## Dooby (Oct 21, 2012)

Re Walthamstow 27th, No updates on the We Are Waltham Forest facebook page, which tbh is what I'm using as an update for Saturday (live in WAlthamstow, assume will hear anything relevant before it) so it seems all just going ahead as planned on both sides. Am trying to arrange to be in a couple of places at once, last time transport was borked, assume will be the same this time. 
Will come on here to keep checking it out as you guys seem pretty informed..


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 21, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20021478

One of the bail conditions imposed on the men bans them from entering east London to demonstrate for a stipulated period of time, police said.


----------



## albionism (Oct 21, 2012)

I bet he intends to go to Walthamstow, get himself nicked in a hurry,then
play the martyr and moan about how his "freedom of speech" is being denied.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 21, 2012)

albionism said:


> I bet he intends to go to Walthamstow, get himself nicked in a hurry,then
> play the martyr and moan about how his "freedom of speech" is being denied.


 
I dunno or cancel the march saving face over probable low turn out and blame the police attack on low turnout.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 21, 2012)

albionism said:


> I bet he intends to go to Walthamstow, get himself nicked in a hurry,then
> play the martyr and moan about how his "freedom of speech" is being denied.


Or if previous form is anything to go by, turn up and just get away with it.


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 21, 2012)

> Tommy Robinson has been remanded in prison for the alleged crime of entering America illegally, so extradition to the USA is very much a possibility.
> 
> Tommy has been denied any help with legal aid, with Tommy having his accounts frozen he has no access to any monies for legal representation so we need your help!
> 
> ...


 
From EDL facebook page


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 21, 2012)

Send us your fucking money!!!!!!


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 21, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Send us your fucking money!!!!!!


 
Donation and 'I'm Spartacus' page set up on their website too.

englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1813-tommy-on-remand


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> norm! is it okay to use some of this on the blog for tomorrows round -up?


 
Sorry, missed this first time around - it's probably too late now but you're welcome to use it if you want.


----------



## Cal Johnsom (Oct 22, 2012)

Bubba gunna know him good.


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 22, 2012)

Hunger strike mk. 2?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Tommy us out on bail and is being done for assault on Sayful Islam and another charge of fraud relating to his trip to america according to his twitter


 
you got a link to that chief? for us non-twittery types (ie, techno eejits!). Malatesta's blog: keeping it analogue!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Sorry, missed this first time around - it's probably too late now but you're welcome to use it if you want.


thats okay i nicked your report and 'rephrased it' a little. thanks loads!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

how did he enter america illegally? he shd have surrndered his passport at euros but didnt so was up in court last week. i assume he used his passport to get into USA. why didnt their enormous security system notice? sounds bogus to me.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

back on the nonce wing like last time - mrs tommy gonna go mental!


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 22, 2012)

If you enter a country illegally don't they attempt to deport you? As opposed to dragging you back there again once you've left?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

MR TOMMY IN TROUBLE! READ ALL ABAHT IT!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/mr-tommy-nicked/


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> how did he enter america illegally? he shd have surrndered his passport at euros but didnt so was up in court last week. i assume he used his passport to get into USA. why didnt their enormous security system notice? sounds bogus to me.


----------



## Deareg (Oct 22, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> If you enter a country illegally don't they attempt to deport you? As opposed to dragging you back there again once you've left?


I imagine any normal country would, but this is the US!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

They won't take him back to the US he will stay here, he's got a rap sheet taller than him, he's on a fucking suspended sentence as it is


----------



## Deareg (Oct 22, 2012)

Why didn't they all just travel interdependently and meet up at a prearranged point? Too fucking stupid to work that one out?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Why didn't they all just travel interdependently and me up at a prearranged point? Too fucking stupid to work that one out?


 
They where trying to be smart, thing is non of them would SHUT THE FUCK UP about this mega plan all week.... even Tommy dropped hints on Twatter all week


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

yeah it was going about all week with rumours on arctics and mission AR1 etc .they are gobshites. walthamstow is gonna be very interesting.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

He's been held for Passport fraud.... fucking Muppet or what.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

> Stephen Lennon, (29 - 27/11/82), unemployed, of Bedford appeared in custody at Westminster Magistrates' Court on Monday, 22 October charged with possession of a false identity document with
> improper intention (contrary to Section Identity Documents Act 2010).
> 
> He was remanded in custody to appear at Southwark Crown Court on a date in January 2013.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

unemployed? scrounger! deport him! bang him up with abu hamza!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

schadenfreude!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 22, 2012)

Anyone seen Mark Kennedy lately?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 22, 2012)

The very idea that there is no grasses amongst a collection of burgulars, small time dealers and pub loudmouths.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

Hala Turkey dinners all round


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

> The spokesman said: "Following Saturday's events, we learn directly from Kevin Carroll that he has been bailed until 30 November, which means that his election campaign for Bedfordshire Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) is unaffected.


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-20033157


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

EDL leader charged over 'false passport'
(AFP) – 26 minutes ago 
LONDON — The leader of the English Defence League (EDL) appeared in court on Monday charged with attempting to travel to the United States *using another person's passport*, London's Metropolitan Police said.
Stephen Lennon, 29, appeared in custody at Westminster Magistrates' Court to face the charge of "possession of a false identity document with improper intention", Scotland Yard said in a statement.
"The case relates to allegations that a man tried to travel to the US in September using another person's passport," a Met police spokesman told AFP.
Lennon, widely known by his pseudonym Tommy Robinson, was remanded to appear at Southwark Crown Court on a date in January.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.d7b21f72c139e4f1bd04c5e01456d2b5.691


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 22, 2012)

Oddly enough, what a lot of illegal immigrants get done for. 6 months to 2 years.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 22, 2012)

The irony


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

'attempting to travel to the United States using another person's passport'
bit fucking late for that isnt? he's been and come back. and its not like he wasnt boasting of it. bugles!


----------



## Das Uberdog (Oct 22, 2012)

why the fuck did he do that?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 22, 2012)

Isn't there a load of other stuff he's done as well? Fraud and stuff? I mean he was talking on twitter about them investigating his accounts and whinging about that. The police have got no shortage of things they could pin on him should they so wish, so it's interesting they've decided to go for this passport one over the multitude of other things they could have him for.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 22, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/news/...l-supporters-held-after-police-motorway-sting
> 
> Fifty three members of English Defence League members were arrested on the M1 this afternoon whilst allegedly travelling to target a mosque London.


 
*LUTON VAN GUARD GO OVER THE TOP*


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2012)

its all ere!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/mr-tommy-nicked/


----------



## Fingers (Oct 22, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> They where trying to be smart, thing is non of them would SHUT THE FUCK UP about this mega plan all week.... even Tommy dropped hints on Twatter all week


 
Why didn't the daft twats just hire a coach and not take colours


----------



## Fingers (Oct 22, 2012)

OK it has been confirmed by the Met that he went to the US on someone else's passport. Embarrassing for the US so I suspect they will want him back over there again.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

Best week ever


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)




----------



## Fingers (Oct 22, 2012)

Latest from Wormwood Scrubbs

From Kev Carroll: Tommy has been remanded to Wormwood Scrubs and put on a wing full of Muslim Extremists. He's receiving countless death threats. This is a deliberate strategy by the authorities of which we will must not take laying down.


----------



## Favelado (Oct 22, 2012)

It'll probably be from behind up against the shower wall rather than lying down.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 22, 2012)

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne...MSTOW__EDL_members_banned_from_planned_march/


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm not sure this could get any better?

http://britishfreedom.org/paul-weston-arrested-outside-wormwood-scrubs/

*Paul Weston Arrested Outside Wormwood Scrubs*


http://pics.lockerz.com/s/255308377


----------



## Mapped (Oct 22, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne...MSTOW__EDL_members_banned_from_planned_march/


 
There was max 200 there last time, are they really going to bother after this?


----------



## Deareg (Oct 22, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I'm not sure this could get any better?
> 
> http://britishfreedom.org/paul-weston-arrested-outside-wormwood-scrubs/
> 
> ...


Aren't you supposed to break those links?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

Deareg said:


> Aren't you supposed to break those links?


 
why there all banged up..... 

not needed from BFP there well aware of this thread. Hi Mr Woods of his mums basement Cardiff


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 22, 2012)

They need to stick ten bob in the meter. I can't get their site to load whatsoever.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

It was right after this we all got arrested for going to a peaceful protest... or something like that....


----------



## paolo (Oct 22, 2012)

Kinell.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 22, 2012)

They claim it was going to be a photo shoot.....


----------



## paolo (Oct 22, 2012)

A bit early for the Halloween outfits.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Oct 23, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It was right after this we all got arrested for going to a peaceful protest... or something like that....


 
SpongeBob or what!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 23, 2012)

I love the guy who's kept his baseball cap on over the top of his balaclava


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 23, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Hi Mr Woods of his mums basement Cardiff


 
LOL be careful, he's got masses of potential!


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 23, 2012)

I thought they opposed the covering up of the face for ideological purposes?


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 23, 2012)

The EDL; spotted recently.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I'm not sure this could get any better?
> 
> http://britishfreedom.org/paul-weston-arrested-outside-wormwood-scrubs/
> 
> ...


 
he's feeling left out of all the publicity. what a bugle.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It was right after this we all got arrested for going to a peaceful protest... or something like that....


 
its not like a luton van full of blokes in balaclavas looks suspicious or owt does it? note obligatory beer glass. i have been on a few 'lads days out' but never had to go masked up. the whole thing reeks.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 23, 2012)

> take your hands off me!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2012)

so who is going to organise the EDL on saturday? hel gower?


----------



## albionism (Oct 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> so who is going to organise the EDL on saturday? hel gower?


Shrek arse.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2012)

moves to appoint jeffrey marshbubbles of the casuals untied. im sure his twin nieces kylie and chardonnay can help too.


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 23, 2012)

Not sure if this facebook is genuine: https://www.facebook.com/WeCallForAnEdlLeadershipElection


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 23, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Not sure if this facebook is genuine: https://www.facebook.com/WeCallForAnEdlLeadershipElection


Hmmm, what do you think?


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 23, 2012)

Normally it has been created by whoever posts the link.


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 23, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Hmmm, what do you think?
> 
> View attachment 24292


 
Anyone can vote on it. I voted Muslamic Rayguns. 

Doesn't mean it wasn't genuine.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 23, 2012)

casuals claim its nonsense.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 23, 2012)

kokaine Kev has issues a statement
During my time of temporary detention for allegedly "conspiring to cause a public nuisance" which has caused me much stress and inconvenience, I have to say a massive thank you to all those proud patriots who have stuck by me and Tommy. Through thick and thin, through the good times and the bad we have continued in our struggle to battle against many enemies, be they violent Islamists, the far left and the very real and very present far right, we continue to battle.

We battle because we really do know what is at stake, it's our children's futures, their children's futures, the battle of equality and civil liberties, it's about pushing back an intolerant and backward ideology that discriminates against non Muslims, an ideology that believes its ok to beat women, murder homosexuals, rape our children, and hate anything about western culture and western values, namely democracy and freedom of speech.

I'm in awe, I can't thank you enough for all of your support! 

There aren't enough words in the English dictionary that can describe the bravery of genuinely loyal and patriotic EDL members, members who continue to face the systematic destruction of our country and our culture head on. This battle brings a great amount of personal, financial and emotional sacrifice. You make me proud to stand with you, to fight by your side, through thick and thin, you are my family, my brothers and sisters, my inspiration and my source of strength in times of adversity. You are the saviours of our great country, history will show this to be the case.

It is however somewhat tempered with a disturbing reality, I say this with a heavy heart because I feel compelled to, and I wish I didn't have to but now is the right time to say it. I have not come this far, or fought so hard at much personal cost to allow false patriots to dictate the direction or ethos of the EDL.

Tommy mentioned in his speech at Walsall certain groups and individuals who seem intent on ruining our grass roots street movement, people with alternative agendas, people serving the interests of groups who want to ride on the back of our success, people who want to entice our members to serve a different goal, a different agenda, they spread their poison and their gossip amongst the rank and file of the EDL, they are vermin.

Since Tommy has been remanded these false patriots have decided to escalate their campaigns of divide and rule, they spread disinformation, they call for new leadership, they actively work against everything we have achieved, they know our numbers, our unity and our steadfastness is our strength, it is something they wish for themselves.

I have heard people say "why" another collection for funds to help Tommy fight his extradition to the USA?

I really can't believe the question was even asked! For gods sake the lad is on his arse on remand with no money, no legal council, no legal aid, his family living in fear on a daily basis, his children threatened, his wife threatened, and yet some idiots are complaining about raising funds for a lad who sticks his fingers up to the establishment, a lad who leads from the front getting up close and personal with violent islamists on a daily basis. The lad has balls bigger than the brains of these false patriots who question his integrity and his hunger for the fights we still have yet to battle.

We have kept a very close eye on these people, we know who they are so here's the deal you bunch of parasitical vultures.

Some people think they are above the EDL, they think they are bigger and better than the EDL, they think they can lead the EDL but they do it behind a computer playing the big hard man, well that don't wash with me lads, I don't care if your from Essex or anywhere else for that matter, the bottom line is you would crumble under the pressures of leadership, as soon as your faces are out there, as soon as your families are threatened, when the establishment screw you left right and centre to shut you up you will fall silent, you will give up the fight. Remember both Tommy and I live in a town with 50,000 Muslims, most of whom would almost certainly love to see us dead or beaten to a pulp. But we walk the walk, we live among them and walk amongst them every single day of our lives, we do it knowing that there may be a day when we become martyrs to our cause, it is something we have learnt to live with.

If you think your head is big enough to wear the EDL leadership hat, if you think your shoulders are broad enough to carry the weight and the responsibility of leadership then please do give me a call, make sure you bring with you your cv and all the documentation required to apply for this job.

You can contact me on this number.....

07858 281182

If your not up to the job then I strongly suggest you crawl back under the rock from whence you came.
​


----------



## Fingers (Oct 23, 2012)

Essex Division have now fallen out with Kev




Paul Pitt
*Essex has spent over 3 years carrying the EDL banner Three fucking years of back stabbing acussations from wrong wrong urns .Yet even after all that we have remained EDL and never encouraged or supported any splinter groups in fact stopped people from leaving. None of us do it from behind a computer screen we are there battling radical islam on the streets not just when the camera crews are present . Those remark made in your statement show what kind of a man you are kev you have had my number and never phoned it instead you put that up .At this time a time when we all should be pulling toghter why did you not phone me ? You also need to stop seeing people as a threat instead of a asset We in essex have stood for three years without your help yet remained true to the EDL dont destroy that because you will be losing one of the most loyal active divisions in the south your choice NFSE*


----------



## krink (Oct 23, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Paul Pitt* wrong urns .*


 
right erns


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

greek erns!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

got bored after the 2nd paragraph. he writes as well as he speaks. and 'vermin'? its a bit 1933 no?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

*Latest 'Malatesta' piece on the weeks shenanigans!*

* Read all abaht it!http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/this-is-the-end/*


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 24, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Hmmm, what do you think?
> 
> View attachment 24292


 
vote Gripper


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 24, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> *LUTON VAN GUARD GO OVER THE TOP*


LDV...Luton Defence Volunteers....DAF Cunts....can we see a Sprinter group in the aftermath of this or will it be vito'd


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> SpongeBob or what!


Brings back painful memories....


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

At the risk of adding another duplicate post to a thread whose last few 1000 pages seem to be largely made up of them, the police have asked for walthamstow 'march' to be banned.


----------



## laptop (Oct 24, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> LDV...Luton Defence Volunteers....DAF Cunts....can we see a Sprinter group in the aftermath of this or will it be vito'd


 
Not quite: rather, stopped in Transit.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 24, 2012)

Sicky Transit munters' glory


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 24, 2012)

Boxed Luton removal firm gets liquidated.


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

No passavan etc.

That's news about the OB though, butchers.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> At the risk of adding another duplicate post to a thread whose last few 1000 pages seem to be largely made up of them, the police have asked for walthamstow 'march' to be banned.


 
oh stop it butchers, you big grump! yes waltamstow council responded to local concerns, plod asked theresa may for a ban but the static demo will go ahead.  doubt the EDL would be able to march anyway. the static will be surrounded for their own protection by plod from about 6 different forces, 1,000s of antifascists and the whiff of failure!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

i agree that it may seem repetitious but this thread and the BTF one have been the best ones ive ever been on for contacts, info and 'networking' and passing on links for me own website!


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> i agree that it may seem repetitious but this thread and the BTF one have been the best ones ive ever been on for contacts, info and 'networking' and passing on links for me own website!


Don't take it personal! Personally I like my daily dip into the workings of the EDL


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

ha ha! i've just found this place very helpful!


----------



## stuff_it (Oct 24, 2012)

English Disco Lovers, a tongue in cheek campaign to replace the English Defence League as the top search result when you type in EDL...

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/english-disco-lovers

https://www.facebook.com/englishdiscolovers


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

edit!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

fucken heck! yet another splinter group the real english defence league uniting the right and calling hel growler a grass!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 24, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> fucken heck! yet another splinter group the real english defence league uniting the right and calling hel growler a grass!


 
Can you PM me some info and links


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 24, 2012)

It's ok found it LOL




In recent times we have seen the English Defence League rise from being a small group of lads from Luton into a huge and formidable force.
Lately a core team of egotists have ruined the organisation and alienated many members who have left.
We lay the blame firmly on the doorsteps of Hel Gower and Kevin Carroll.
Over the last weekend we have seen Hel Gower’s Facebook group grass up 53 good and loyal patriots who now have possible charges awaiting them. These were good and honest foot soldiers, loyal to the cause, the finest of the fine who would stand by leadership every step of the way.
The evidence of the grassing is here on Gower’s group, Unplugged Debate where she flirts with lefties


The way they were sent into trap was disgusting.
Last night was the final straw when Carroll mugged Essex Division off by referring to them as ‘Fake patriots’ and ‘vermin’.
Why would Gower do such a thing? She is a control freak and with Tommy out of the way she has more control over the movement and more opportunity to alienate the core supporters as she has done over the last two years.
Whilst Tommy has not always played the right cards and we would like to stand loyal to him, he is no use to the movement whilst in prison. Going to the United States on a fake passport was suicide. The return to Walthamstow is probably one of the worst decisions he has made and the fact that they are going back to that Islamic hellhole is putting the lives of every loyal patriot at risk.
We are a group of disaffected and loyal supporters including three regional officers and we think that unless we take charge of the EDL, the movement will have vanished within the next few weeks.
We are not going to state who we are until Sunday when we can access the damage Walthamstow has caused us.
This is our ten point plan to get the movement back on it’s feet again and take back our streets.

The organisation will be fully accountable and finances will be transparent
We will not leave any member behind. If a member is in trouble with the police they will get as much financial support as a leader would get. No member will be forgotten about, mugged off and left to rot in prison.
We will be going back to basics and the new leadership will lead demonstrations from the front.
We will have a Division for each county in England. There will be no divisional split below that. Divisions cause division so the less the better.
There will be no Angel’s Division or ‘Head Angel’ as the current people involved have done more harm to the EDL than anything else in the movement.
Good patriots will be welcomed back. Anyone who stands for our values will stand with us. We draw a line at Nazis though.
We will work with other groups that share our values for fundraising and new ideas
We will focus recruitment on key area of the country where we are sadly lacking numbers, London being a priority.
We shall focus on getting members elected into positions where they can make a difference to run paralel to the street movement if they show the desire and we will back them financially.
We will listen to each and every member and will be holding a meeting in your area for all to come along at least three times a year. Each meeting will be attended by a RO. Leaders and ROs will be elected with full transparency.
This is a very real last chance to save the organisation and stop England turning into an Islamic hell hole governed by Sharia law. Join us for the future of your children.
You can contact us here for more information and join our mailing list.
therealedl@yahoo.co.uk
NFSE.
Leadership.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

i was trying to break the link but techno-klutzed it!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

rather amusing: KKKev says these men were not doing anything illegal. and it certainly doesnt look dodgy either! 
http://twitpic.com/b6zcdw/full


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 24, 2012)

> We will have a Division for each county in England. There will be no divisional split below that. Divisions cause division so the less the better.


 
This means more divisions surely?



> This is a very real last chance to save the organisation and stop England turning into an Islamic hell hole governed by Sharia law


 
Should team up with avaaz. Get a petition going.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 24, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> rather amusing: KKKev says these men were not doing anything illegal. and it certainly doesnt look dodgy either!
> http://twitpic.com/b6zcdw/full


Can't a bunch of patriots in ski masks enjoy a quick pint and a round of soggy biscuit in the back of a van without aspersions being cast?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This means more divisions surely?


 
the new strategy to unite the right is for everyone to have their own groupuscule!


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 24, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This means more divisions surely?
> 
> 
> 
> Should team up with avaaz. Get a petition going.


 
24 hours to stop shariah law!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 24, 2012)




----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

0.07 secs before I realised that was 21 minutes long


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 24, 2012)

I can save you 21 mins


Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance, ERm.... well oh Extremists there naught and stuff... Well Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance,Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance,Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance,Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance Lets work with them, invest in them, Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance, Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance, Potato, Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

Thank you!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 24, 2012)

oh and he's going to cut all the red tape, get rid of all the back office staff and translators and stuff and get more cops on the beat. for Zero tolerance stuff


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

Amenable cops, presumably.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 24, 2012)

cesare said:


> Amenable cops, presumably.


 
Ermmmm Well Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance ?


----------



## cesare (Oct 24, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Ermmmm Well Knife Crime, Zero Tolerance ?


I meant amenable to not policing his EDL demos


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 24, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Can't a bunch of patriots in ski masks enjoy a quick pint and a round of soggy biscuit in the back of a van without aspersions being cast?


 
If they really were off to damage property, you'd have be really stupid (or brain dead) to display your logo on your balaclavas, wouldn't you? I thinks you're right Dave, they were having a love-in in the back of that lorry!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 24, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Hmmm, what do you think?
> 
> View attachment 24292




Just because a bigot page is crawling with antis doesn't mean the antis set it up.

Happens quite a lot now.

A page was set up calling for Stabby Marsh to take command of the bunker last night. Looked bona fide and more or less the same thing happened.

Or bigots try to troll an anti page (typically a small autonomous group opposing a planned EDL demo) and the antis pile in.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 24, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> If they really were off to damage property, you'd have be really stupid (or brain dead) to display your logo on your balaclavas, wouldn't you? I thinks you're right Dave, they were having a love-in in the back of that lorry!


 
_What happens in the van, stays in the van._


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It's ok found it LOL
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This will end in tears


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 24, 2012)

> Let’s make sure that Tommy Robinson knows just how many friends and supporters he has outside, that he is in our thoughts and prayers at this difficult time.
> It only takes five minutes to buy a nice card and write a cheery message of support. It costs little and will give Tommy a lift while he’s stuck in prison. So do it!
> 
> Here’s the address:
> ...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 24, 2012)

> While he was released on bail for the other two arrests, Tommy wasn't so lucky with his fraudulent crossing of international borders and has been remanded in custody until January 2013.


 
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/tommy-robinson-had-a-nightmare-weekend


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 24, 2012)

> kokaine Kev has issues a statement
> During my time of temporary detention for allegedly "conspiring to cause a public nuisance" which has caused me much stress and inconvenience, I have to say a massive thank you to all those proud patriots who have stuck by me and Tommy. Through thick and thin, through the good times and the bad we have continued in our struggle to battle against many enemies, be they violent Islamists, the far left *and the very real and very present far right, we continue to battle.*


 
Who is he referring to?

It would make my evening if you were to say they have woken up to being used by the Tories but I doubt that will happen...


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

I shit you not

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...913596537.36964.143746739016588&type=1&ref=nf


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 25, 2012)

A vigil in Berlin? 



> Tess TicklesWTF is Tommy dead??
> about an hour ago · Like · 1


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

crivvens! saint tommy now is it?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

tommy back on the nonce wing!
http://twitpic.com/b723ik


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2012)

So he's among friends


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 25, 2012)

do we really need prisons?


----------



## krink (Oct 25, 2012)




----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

March is banned, not sure how many will show for Static?

It's going to be a bit of a poor show i guess.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

reading they are trying to ban static demos also!!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

hmmmm, if its a static 200 or so. some of the groupuscules have said they might show but infidels are still bitter about being called nazis so are instead with the 14 word NF!!!! no leadership, no co-ordination, essex and kent also fallen out with the tommyistas this week. all signs point to poo!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

ban on ALL MARCHES  affects oppo as well but i think like last time the UAF kettle will be widely ignored and the masses will be roving on the streets. best recent tactic too!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...nister-agrees-ban-on-edl-marches-8226355.html


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

*Goddard@cllrthomgoddard

This Saturday's #EDL march through Waltham Forest, and all static protests, have been banned by Theresa May. Excellent*


----------



## cesare (Oct 25, 2012)

So Tower Hamlets, Newham and Islington have bans on marches for the next 30 days too. Anything coming up that might be affected, once everyone thinks about it in wider terms than the EDL?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

bob said it 1st!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

interesting, the ban is spread round north/east london cos plod fears that EDL will plot up anyway and run amok!
http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/n...mosque_could_be_target_for_disorder_1_1669221


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

He may have it wrong UAF still claiming static is a go....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> So Tower Hamlets, Newham and Islington have bans on marches for the next 30 days too. Anything coming up that might be affected, once everyone thinks about it in wider terms than the EDL?


The Bookfair Wetherspoons Memorial Parade?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

less of a march, more of a boak!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

*We Are Waltham Forest 

Cllr. Thom Goddard has clarified: "Met Police will use Section 14, Public Order Act to impose conditions on static protests. On twitter = ban #only140"

WaWF are already working with the police to ensure we have a safe and legal protest within any conditions laid down under the Public Order Act.*


The words "ban" and "c
onditions" have very different meanings, even on Twitter.

Cllr Goddards tweet was INCORRECT.

Say it once more - The EDL are still coming to Walthamstow on Saturday and WE WILL BE PROTESTING.


----------



## cesare (Oct 25, 2012)

So is it a s14 on the 4 boroughs for 30 days without limitation? Cos that's further reaching than a ban on marches.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks Bob. Isn't Huff Post also reporting a ban, including statics?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 25, 2012)

Bob, if you're certain of all this i think you should do a short statement qualifying and post it around at the usual FB haunts.

There seems to be quite a bit of cross-talk confusion.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2012)

am i the only person here who remembers that the '93 bookfair coincided with welling?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

yeah, paste it in here and i will posat it about  too bob!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> am i the only person here who remembers that the '93 bookfair coincided with welling?


 
yeah you old fart!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah you old fart!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

from SLATEDL
Now confirmed - THIS IS NOT TRUE.

There is no power under British law to ban Static Protests.

The EDL are still coming to Waltham Forest on Saturday. See you at the Town Square at 11am.


----------



## cesare (Oct 25, 2012)

Processions (marches): http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/the-right-of-peaceful-protest/marches-and-processions.html

Assemblies (static): http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourri...est/static-demonstrations-and-assemblies.html


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> from SLATEDL
> Now confirmed - THIS IS NOT TRUE.
> 
> There is no power under British law to ban Static Protests.
> ...


now your pm makes sense.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> Processions (marches): http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/the-right-of-peaceful-protest/marches-and-processions.html
> 
> Assemblies (static): http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourri...est/static-demonstrations-and-assemblies.html


i think what you're driving at is they can't stop people standing about.


----------



## cesare (Oct 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i think what you're driving at is they can't stop people standing about.


They can decide how many people stand around, and how long for though?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2012)

cesare said:


> They can decide how many people stand around, and how long for though?


i hope that you can, as i can, walk fifty yards till i want to stand about again. anyway, i've lots of things i can protest about at different times in the same vicinity. but sometimes i don't want to protest and i just want to stand about.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

*Have further update- Police have told the EDL only place they can hold a static protest is outside parliament on Saturday and this condition will be enforced robustly i.e. nowhere in Walthamstow at all!*


https://www.facebook.com/stellacreasy/posts/10152201415200562


----------



## Fingers (Oct 25, 2012)

They have knocked Wathamstow on the head for now and released this


‎(EDL) English Defence League
Statement regarding Saturday’s demo in Walthamstow on Sat 27 Oct 2012

A 30 day ban on any demonstrations by any groups has been imposed on certain Boroughs in London and a Section 14 on all Boroughs in London by the Authorities which means that the Walthamstow demo is not able to go ahead as planned.

Please do not attend Walthamstow on Sat 27th Oct 2012 as you will be arrested.

We have negotiated with the Met Police to hold an alternative demonstration in Westminster and have successfully obtained a protest outside the Houses of Parliament at Old Palace Yard. This is a prime spot for the EDL to get their message out on the treatment of Tommy and the two tier system that operates in this country.

The Gold Commander also applied for a Section 14, see below and the Assistant Commissioner imposed the Section 14, we have been informed that this will be applied robustly and heavily and if any EDL supporters are outside the allotted areas will be arrested.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/14

We have negotiated very effectively on this alternative demo location at very short notice and please see the separate announcement on meeting points and times.

We have informed the Met Police that once the 30 day ban has ceased then the EDL will be applying again to march in Walthamstow and will keep on applying until we are allowed to march the route that we have chosen.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 25, 2012)

A 30 day ban on any demonstrations by any groups
fuck me that's a bit draconian!


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 25, 2012)

So this hoovers up the student demo also, or is that ok because it's central London i guess?


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> A 30 day ban on any demonstrations by any groups
> fuck me that's a bit draconian!


Back  in the day some NF stopped local CND marches this way; by applying for a march of their own every time CND applied triggering a blanket ban.


----------



## cesare (Oct 25, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> A 30 day ban on any demonstrations by any groups
> fuck me that's a bit draconian!


I bleedin pointed that out to you hours ago


----------



## cesare (Oct 25, 2012)

This Westminster lark means the OB will probably automatically issue a s60 btw (because of the area), so anyone going to stand around should make sure they don't have anything pointy on em.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2012)

> We have negotiated with the Met Police to hold an alternative demonstration in Westminster


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 25, 2012)

> We have negotiated with the Met Police to hold an alternative demonstration in Westminster and have successfully obtained a protest outside the Houses of Parliament at Old Palace Yard. This is a prime spot for the EDL to get their message out on the treatment of Tommy and the two tier system that operates in this country.


 
You couldn't make this shit up!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

'We have negotiated very effectively on this alternative demo location'

all lies! they surrendered. again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> 'We have negotiated very effectively on this alternative demo location'
> 
> all lies! they surrendered. again.


they surrendered? 

nfse?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 26, 2012)

Blah blah blah two tier system blah blah blah two passports...


----------



## paolo (Oct 26, 2012)

Westminster then?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

paolo said:


> Westminster then?


looks like it!


----------



## paolo (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> looks like it!


 
I'm in


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 26, 2012)

> Update from Tommy - Tommy had a Bail appeal hearing this morning. The Judge in his infinite wisdom decided that Tommy couldn't have Bail and must stay in remand. This is grossly unfair that his wife and children must spend Christmas and the New Year on their own. The two tier system in effect again when the Rotherham paedos are allowed bail and Tommy is denied his Human Rights.


 
Seem that Human Rights don't extend to passport fraud? who would have thought it?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

well the threat of absconding is already pretty apparent given that he has no qualms using fake ID!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Seem that Human Rights don't extend to passport fraud? who would have thought it?


i think that his wife and kids should make the most of their xmas and new year without that dull cunt lennon hanging about them. they'll probably have a better time without him.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 26, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i think that his wife and kids should make the most of their xmas and new year


 
Happy Winterval!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

she booted him out ages ago anyway. he has been living in a Karavan with Kev Karol behind Sainsburys! in that crap doco he woke up after his bender and 'frog impression' in the spare room! his last video wail stated that she kicked him out.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> 'We have negotiated very effectively on this alternative demo location'



* we march where we want we're told.*


----------



## audiotech (Oct 26, 2012)

Odd, as I remember viewing an image of said passport sometime back.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> she booted him out ages ago anyway. he has been living in a Karavan with Kev Karol behind Sainsburys! in that crap doco he woke up after his bender and 'frog impression' in the spare room! his last video wail stated that she kicked him out.


yes: but you can picture loser lennon peering in through the window and making a video outside her gaff crying about it


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

we go where we dont want, when we dont want. then whine about it on facebook later!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> we go where we dont want, when we dont want. then whine about it on facebook later!


or 'we're not wanted where we go'


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

there was the paul harris 1 techy and he had 1 of his own name, which he shd have handed in at Euro 2012 but didnt so was in court over it. he had been boasting and posting pics of his trip to usa hence the rumble!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

this is schadenfreude at its best. also i dont think i can recall anyone on the far right who has taken as many liberties as him getting away with it for so long.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 26, 2012)

Someone was saying he changed his name by deedpoll to Paul Harris so he could use that passport 

not sure if true but fucking retarded if he did


----------



## audiotech (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> there was the paul harris 1 techy and he had 1 of his own name, which he shd have handed in at Euro 2012 but didnt so was in court over it. he had been boasting and posting pics of his trip to usa hence the rumble!


 
1) Why was an image of the passport under the name Paul Harris floating around on the internet?
2) Why has this not been jumped on by the authorities before now?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 26, 2012)

audiotech said:


> 1) Why was an image of the passport under the name Paul Harris floating around on the internet?
> 2) Why has this not been jumped on by the authorities before now?


 
1) they where trying to hide the fact he was really Steven Lennon.
2) they don't give a fuck until it's used.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

wasnt it searchlight/HNH that published it to expose his duplicity re: 3 names etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

CXF/Nf in rotherham tomorrow. shd be a miserable turnout.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> wasnt it searchlight/HNH that published it to expose his duplicity re: 3 names etc.


Searchlight and hnh OR searchlight or hnh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> CXF/Nf in rotherham tomorrow. shd be a miserable turnout.


I hope the lovely norma's not there


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 26, 2012)

more twists and turns,....

http://twitpic.com/b7j0j1


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 26, 2012)

We had this : report on why Lennon didn't make bail.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 26, 2012)

Really?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> more twists and turns,....
> 
> http://twitpic.com/b7j0j1


 
pardon mon francais monsieur, but quel bollocks! ran out? what happened to all the security bobbins?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Searchlight and hnh OR searchlight or hnh?


 
one or the other, cant remember. its all a bit dodgy tho innit?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 26, 2012)

Well this is what he is telling everyone bare that in mind, also he was in Italy the week after, so maybe he flew out to there from the USA and then back to the UK? it will all come out next year anyways  till then we can relax and watch the idiots fall apart even more


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

he was in USa then went to italy. its here anyway! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/09/17/890/


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

he did the whining video, then usa then italy, then home, walsall, court and 'the truck'!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2012)

Bristol UAF desperately trying to get people to buy tickets to walhamstow _right now - _trying to spread the lost deposit around.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 26, 2012)

> I will be in Walthamstow Town Square at 11am tomorrow. It's my community, they're my streets and the EDL and any other fascists are not welcome. I will not be told by the Home Office or any local councillor that stayed away on 1 September how to fight fascism. On the 1 September We are Waltham Forest and Unite Against Fascism built the EDL's coffin. Tomorrow, we close the lid. See you all there.


 
a leading UAF and SWP person posted this on We Are Waltham Forest's wall on facebook about an hour ago

lol running away from the EDL just to defy the police and council, wankers


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 26, 2012)

They're having a "Victory Rally" in Walthamstow. Can't be cancelled, they've got papers to see y'know...

http://uaf.org.uk/2012/10/victory-rally-in-walthamstow-saturday-27-october/


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> a leading UAF and SWP person posted this on We Are Waltham Forest's wall on facebook about an hour ago
> 
> lol running away from the EDL just to defy the police and council, wankers


And the home office or anyone else is not telling them to stay away - only the EDL 'static' bollocks that people call it now are not allowed - all other static stuff  is.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> a leading UAF and SWP person posted this on We Are Waltham Forest's wall on facebook about an hour ago
> 
> lol running away from the EDL just to defy the police and council, wankers


If memory serves the swappies were in thamesmead on sept 12 1992 when afa and friends were handing out a pasting to blood&honour


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Bristol UAF desperately trying to get people to buy tickets to walhamstow _right now - _trying to spread the lost deposit around.


 
they are plotting up in parliament sq tho from 11 onwards, demo starts at 1. expect heavy manners plodding! and not many EDL.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> they are plotting up in parliament sq tho from 11 onwards, demo starts at 1. expect heavy manners plodding! and not many EDL.


They may be, but the UAF are still going to wstow.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> If memory serves the swappies were in thamesmead on sept 12 1992 when afa and friends were handing out a pasting to blood&honour


 
what is this bleedin' memory lane?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> They may be, but the UAF are still going to wstow.


 
why? the EDL have told everyone to go to P square (make my square the p-square, i want to join uncut!). i assume thats where most folk wd be?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2012)

Victory rally.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

Westminster Demo 27th October 2012. We intend to exercise our right to lawful assembly , and will be gathering to demonstrate OUTSIDE PARLIAMENT. Venue The Old Palace Yard , London SW1P, Time 11.00hrs…demo to start at 13.00rs Travel
Nearest tube is Westminster (Jubilee Line)

Parking Limited!!!!!!


----------



## cesare (Oct 26, 2012)

Old Palace Yard


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 26, 2012)

The irony is I don't think the 'victory rally' will even link up with the council endorsed celebration of Waltham Forest event that they planned as a non conforntational space.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

is a state enforced ban something that antifascists shd be celebrating?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> is a state enforced ban something that antifascists shd be celebrating?


 
Given that UAF are big callers of this sort of thing it makes sense for them to celebrate it


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 26, 2012)

Few short years ago they made a big deal out of opposing such bans - that, of course, was when there were no people marching needing banning - but as soon as the pressure went up...


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 26, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The irony is I don't think the 'victory rally' will even link up with the council endorsed celebration of Waltham Forest event that they planned as a non conforntational space.


 
I think that's been cancelled, or at least the Muslim community organisation that was backing it has pulled out.


----------



## Mapped (Oct 26, 2012)

There's a fun fair being set up in Walthamstow now for the celebration and it doesn't sound like the council want the UAF linking up with it.



> Our event in the Town Square and Arcade site will continue on Saturday. This will be a family fun day and the area will be full of children and families. We will not allow any counter demonstrations or protests to take place in this area


 
http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/Pages/Campaigns/united.aspx


----------



## cesare (Oct 26, 2012)

I don't blame em, either. Why the fuck should they have to endure a bloody victory rally?


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 26, 2012)

It's hardly a victory either if they're demonstrating elsewhere because of the state.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> I don't blame em, either. Why the fuck should they have to endure a bloody victory rally?


 
There was always a good argument for an inclusive family fun day to counterpose the EDL's shite as well as militant direct action opposition to the EDL's presence in Walthamstow.

The UAF didn't want either


----------



## cesare (Oct 26, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> There was always a good argument for an inclusive family fun day to counterpose the EDL's shite as well as militant direct action opposition to the EDL's presence in Walthamstow.
> 
> The UAF didn't want either


I'm all for militant direct action opposition, but when the cause is removed I think the community should decide what they want. Otherwise it'll end up with the community thinking the opposition's as bad as the EDL!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> I'm all for militant direct action opposition, but when the cause is removed I think the community should decide what they want. Otherwise it'll end up with the community thinking the opposition's as bad as the EDL!


 
Who are the community?

From what I could see there was genuine community support for all three options including the UAF one to be fair to them if by community you mean organised groups - the wider community seemed fairly ambivalant.


----------



## cesare (Oct 26, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Who are the community?
> 
> From what I could see there was genuine community support for all three options including the UAF one to be fair to them if by community you mean organised groups - the wider community seemed fairly ambivalant.


I mean the residents and the people affected by any disruption to their lives. I'm not sure that foisting a victory rally on them tomorrow is a great plan unless whoever's organising it is fairly sure that it will be welcomed (which of course it might be).


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 26, 2012)

cesare said:


> I mean the residents and the people affected by any disruption to their lives. I'm not sure that foisting a victory rally on them tomorrow is a great plan unless whoever's organising it is fairly sure that it will be welcomed (which of course it might be).


 
I suspect most people will be slightly bemused


----------



## cesare (Oct 26, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I suspect most people will be slightly bemused


Yeah  

You don't expect the opposition when the cause has been removed to Westminster


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 26, 2012)

it seems the local muslim groups have stood down for tomorrow, UAF can have their victory parade and the EDL will be kettled in the square. im sure the good folks of walthamstow are relieved they can get to the shops etc and have a normal day.


----------



## raknor (Oct 26, 2012)

Slightly annoyed although hardly surprised UAF are having a victory rally whilst the EDL are organising in central London, stuff like this is one of the many reasons why I left the swp / anl years ago. Personally will be heading into town in the morning to see what's happening, hopefully with a few comrades, however its proving a bit difficult at the moment to motivate them


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 26, 2012)

Maybe they're going to the bookfair?


----------



## raknor (Oct 26, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Maybe they're going to the bookfair?


They must certainly are and trying to talk me into to as well, must say I'm tempted maybe try and cover both


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 26, 2012)

Bookfair > pub > ripping the piss out of fash if you can be arsed to leave pub


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 26, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> CXF/Nf in rotherham tomorrow. shd be a miserable turnout.


 
I'm going over to have a look. Gonna avoid the UAF kettle this time so do you want me to take some pics for you?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Oct 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> why? the EDL have told everyone to go to P square (make my square the p-square, i want to join uncut!). i assume thats where most folk wd be?


 
P square - How apt


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm going over to have a look. Gonna avoid the UAF kettle this time so do you want me to take some pics for you?


Please do


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm going over to have a look. Gonna avoid the UAF kettle this time so do you want me to take some pics for you?


 
if you cd that wd be fantastic. will be reporting on todays proceedings and posting it tomorrow so anything you can get will be much appreciated! cheers!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2012)

We Are Waltham Forest
It's all official. The police have sorted out a space for us, and the PA is booked and authorised. We Are Waltham Forest and people are coming from all over the country to support us and to say No Pasaran to the Nazi EDL. See you all tomorrow. 11am at the Town Square.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> We Are Waltham Forest
> It's all official. The police have sorted out a space for us, and the PA is booked and authorised. We Are Waltham Forest and people are coming from all over the country to support us and to say No Pasaran to the Nazi EDL. See you all tomorrow. 11am at the Town Square.


tomorrow?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2012)

it was posted yesterday pickmans!


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 27, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i think that his wife and kids should make the most of their xmas and new year without that dull cunt lennon hanging about them. they'll probably have a better time without him.


...And itll be Snowy outside...


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 27, 2012)

audiotech said:


> 1) Why was an image of the passport under the name Paul Harris floating around on the internet?
> 2) Why has this not been jumped on by the authorities before now?


Harristed !!


----------



## harpo (Oct 27, 2012)

And the funfair is free!  

No EDL here today, small UAF presence outside the cinema but they've packed in now and Hoe St has reopened.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 27, 2012)

http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2012-10-27/pictures-edl-demonstration/


Around 40 members of the English Defence League are holding a demonstration outside Parliament today.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 27, 2012)

Massive!  I hope the pigeons shit on 'em.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 27, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...stminser-demo-disaster-as-only-80-edl-turn-up


----------



## audiotech (Oct 27, 2012)

Walthamstow.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 27, 2012)

Muppets... why not just all have a nice day?


----------



## audiotech (Oct 27, 2012)

This geezer seems to be havin' one:


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2012)

was at parliament square, piss poor, half a dozen by 12.30 some in red lion. game over. go home.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2012-10-27/pictures-edl-demonstration/
> 
> 
> Around 40 members of the English Defence League are holding a demonstration outside Parliament today.


 
that is very very weak indeed!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2012)

from the fluffies website. at least plod know who he is now tho for when we all vote for him to be PCC. 

They absolutely ransacked mine,” Carroll told me. “They smashed the door off and wrecked my home. They took my only vehicle, with all the tools of my trade inside, and impounded it, as well as Tommy’s car.” The police, the bomb squad, forensics teams, and sniffer dogs spent seven and a half hours stripping Carroll’s van to the bone. “When they finished,” he said, “they found nothing! They loaded it up with bugs and GPS monitors and threw everything in the back; it looks like it’s been in a blender.” After smashing the door to Carroll’s home off its hinges, police officials repaired it, got a locksmith to put on a new lock, and left with the new keys, leaving Carroll locked out of his own home. When Carroll was released, still wearing his white paper prison suit, it was dark and raining; true to form, police officials offered him no transportation, even though it was late at night on a Sunday.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 27, 2012)

http://socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=29876

This tone of this made me laugh.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 27, 2012)

And now (from that rubbish), after:



> The police ban has implications for the right to protest. It covers a number of London boroughs and in theory bans all marches for a month. The police force should not have such sweeping powers, and the home secretary should not have granted its requests for them.
> 
> Calls for state bans on fascist groups are dangerous because they end up putting these powers in the hands of the police. It is the numbers on the anti-fascist side that stopped the EDL, not the police.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 27, 2012)

Rotherham wasn't much to write home about. I got there just after 10. Saw the nationalist security UK bloke again. I now suspect he is in fact fantasist security UK and he got his mum to sew it on the back of a flourescent cycling bib for him. He was wandering out of the UAF pen when I saw him, surrounded by coppers and looking very proud of himself having bravely walked past some students and hippies who didn't even appear to have noticed he was there.

When I first got there there were 4 NF including the skinniest old bonehead I've ever seen who was there with his John Prescott lookalike girlfriend. By 11ish there were about 8 and I decided it was far too boring and went to the UAF pen to see if anyone fancied a pint. Heard later that about 30-40 eventually gathered in a different location from where they were originally meant to be meeting but by then I was busy quenching my thirst so didn't bother going for a gander.

I forgot my camera but I do have a pic of the 8 brave patriots defending the Halifax building society from the Jooz and Muslamics on my phone and as soon as I've figured out how to put it online I'll stick it up.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> And now (from that rubbish), after:


 
I personally heard UAF speakers call for a state ban on the EDL/NF in Rotherham on more than one occasion today.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 27, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Rotherham wasn't much to write home about. I got there just after 10. Saw the nationalist security UK bloke again. I now suspect he is in fact fantasist security UK and he got his mum to sew it on the back of a flourescent cycling bib for him. He was wandering out of the UAF pen when I saw him, surrounded by coppers and looking very proud of himself having bravely walked past some students and hippies who didn't even appear to have noticed he was there.


This he in the back?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> This he in the back?


 
Yes! Anyone know who he is?


----------



## raknor (Oct 27, 2012)

I would say there was a bit more than 40 EDL (would have said 100-130, still poor turnout) there by 1-1.30pm especially as at one point on the opposite side of the road, two of us were surrounded by at least 20 of them! It was also a real opportunity to completely finish them off that was missed by anti fascists. What really upset me was seeing them strut around central london with impunity!!

A few of them tried to interfere with the deaths in police custody march (which we spent time between the two events) but they were quickly sent packing. Not a particularly great day for them but especially not for anti fascists as there was effectively no opposition! 

I am somewhat disappointed in todays events & the UAF were culpable in undermining the anti fascist turnout (hope they enjoyed their victory rally!!)


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 27, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I personally heard UAF speakers call for a state ban on the EDL/NF in Rotherham on more than one occasion today.


 
Jo Cardwell called for a state ban at the last We Are Waltham forest public meeting


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 27, 2012)

If UAF had wanted to they could have chased the NF out of town easily today. I think locals, especially Asians, were pissed off at seeing the EDL pretty much given free rein a couple of weeks ago and they turned out in numbers - hardly any SWP there but loads of pretty handy looking young Asian lads. Speakers from the stage telling them to stay peaceful, violence makes you as bad as them etc. But later on, when the NF had moved somewhere else (rumours they were going to Dewsbury, possibly because there was an NHS demo there today???) the speakers said they were going to "reclaim" the space NF had assembled in. The young lads obviously wanted to have a go and if they hadn't been so consistently discouraged I'm convinced they'd have done so. So we had the self-elected leaders of "militant" UK antifascism actively trying to prevent a big group of largely a-political lads from engaging in... errrmmm... militant antifascist tactics. Brilliant!

E2A: I guess the lack of SWP may have been down to them being bussed down to Waltham Forest??


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 27, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> rumours they were going to Dewsbury, possibly because there was an NHS demo there today???


 
I think some of them were from Dewsbury/Batley, but I've not heard of anything happening at the nhs demo.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Rotherham wasn't much to write home about. I got there just after 10. Saw the nationalist security UK bloke again. I now suspect he is in fact fantasist security UK and he got his mum to sew it on the back of a flourescent cycling bib for him. He was wandering out of the UAF pen when I saw him, surrounded by coppers and looking very proud of himself having bravely walked past some students and hippies who didn't even appear to have noticed he was there.
> 
> When I first got there there were 4 NF including the skinniest old bonehead I've ever seen who was there with his John Prescott lookalike girlfriend. By 11ish there were about 8 and I decided it was far too boring and went to the UAF pen to see if anyone fancied a pint. Heard later that about 30-40 eventually gathered in a different location from where they were originally meant to be meeting but by then I was busy quenching my thirst so didn't bother going for a gander.
> 
> I forgot my camera but I do have a pic of the 8 brave patriots defending the Halifax building society from the Jooz and Muslamics on my phone and as soon as I've figured out how to put it online I'll stick it up.


 
that skinny old loser is probably kevin watmough and his foul bride kathleen mcdermody. they're a lovely couple.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 27, 2012)

Can't say this is skinny - or bonehead come to that:






Odd demand to make of a council as well.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 27, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I think some of them were from Dewsbury/Batley, but I've not heard of anything happening at the nhs demo.


 
Mate of mine was there, just waiting for him to get back to me about it.

Not worked out how to get the pic off my phone yet but someone I know from the SWP is claiming this was their full national mobilization - it's definitely NF in Rotherham and from today but I can't verify whether that's all of them.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 27, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Can't say this is skinny - or bonehead come to that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
It wasn't him.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 27, 2012)

It's because the council have clambered up the side of the Empire State building with a load of the town's kids clutched in their arm


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 27, 2012)

latest malatesta! read all abaht it!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/game-over/


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 27, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Mate of mine was there, just waiting for him to get back to me about it.


NF didn't show up in Dewsbury - looks like Delroy was right about them just going home there.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 27, 2012)

I'm reliably informed that the SWP/UAF clashed with police in Waltham Forest today. How the fuck do you clash with police at a counter-demo against a group that isn't even there? And why? Just showing everyone how wadical they were?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 27, 2012)

Swappies battering anti fash & pigs with papers?


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 28, 2012)

WTF


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 28, 2012)

http://uaf.org.uk/2012/10/over-1000-people-attend-victory-rally-in-walthamstow/


----------



## Fingers (Oct 28, 2012)

CxF 'may' have put this vid together, whoever did it, it is funny as fuck


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 28, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Bought this bag in a charity shop today not my bag but if any one wants it PM me and Ill make a dono to U75....pissed..won £24 on footy....dying to break my bullshit compromise agreement...just rang an ex..she said go to bed...whats in me fridge...!! Cant upload pic ..off to bed..fuck the fASH


 
In this state even  before Chelsea beat you?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 28, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm reliably informed that the SWP/UAF clashed with police in Waltham Forest today. How the fuck do you clash with police at a counter-demo against a group that isn't even there? And why? Just showing everyone how wadical they were?


 
Yep UAF insisted on marching twenty feet against a strict police ban they had welcomed to prove their own radicalism.

Fucking idiots


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 28, 2012)

im putting a positive spin on the day: 100s of anti-fascists mobilised in walthamstow, 100s of anarchists turned out for the book fair, 40 EDL turned up for trafalgar. a good day.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 28, 2012)

and the fallout continues!
http://twitpic.com/b7yn2p/full


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 28, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> In this state even before Chelsea beat you?


Just removed it...wtf...just that Ive written off the last two weeks since redundancy and now get down to Plan B as from Monday....and I predict an upset Steps....1-3. Chelsea score first...Van P 2 and Valencia.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 28, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Just removed it...wtf...just that Ive written off the last two weeks since redundancy and now get down to Plan B as from Monday....and I predict an upset Steps....1-3. Chelsea score first...Van P 2 and Valencia.


 
Did you take VR ?


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 28, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Did you take VR ?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Latest from Wormwood Scrubbs
> 
> From Kev Carroll: Tommy has been remanded to Wormwood Scrubs and put on a wing full of Muslim Extremists. He's receiving countless death threats. This is a deliberate strategy by the authorities of which we will must not take laying down.


 
That'd be good news, except that "Muslim extremists" get Belmarsh, not the Scrubs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2012)

Don't they get scrubs at belmarsh?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> If they really were off to damage property, you'd have be really stupid (or brain dead) to display your logo on your balaclavas, wouldn't you? I thinks you're right Dave, they were having a love-in in the back of that lorry!


 
If they wanted to dress up for it, they should have gone the traditional route and put matelot suits on before starting the daisy chain.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Don't they get scrubs at belmarsh?


 
Nah, blue boilersuits with nice bright yellow stripes down one side.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2012)

Mr. Tommy has fuck-all to worry about if he's on remand at Wandsworth. It's staffed by the biggest bunch of right-wing wankers this side of a certain farm in Welshpool.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> tommy back on the nonce wing!
> http://twitpic.com/b723ik


 
Segregation isn't "the nonce wing". Segregation is "the block" - a wing landing physically isolated from access from all the other wings, and with cells that contain no facilities (that is, no bogs, no basin, no power points), and only flameproofed cardboard furniture.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> CXF/Nf in rotherham tomorrow. shd be a miserable turnout.


 
...given that CxF seems to have 3 members and a pet ferret (who's secretly an anti-fascist mustelid and grasses the rest of them to _Searchlight_ for a live chicken a week), it'd hardly be surprising.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 28, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> he did the whining video, then usa then italy, then home, walsall, court and 'the truck'!


 
Is it wrong of me to suspect that there's going to be a gonzo porno film hitting the DVD market soon "starring" a load of drunken and coked up "patriotic" blokes sucking each other off in the back of a box-van?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 28, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Segregation isn't "the nonce wing". Segregation is "the block" - a wing landing physically isolated from access from all the other wings, and with cells that contain no facilities (that is, no bogs, no basin, no power points), and only flameproofed cardboard furniture.


 
It's also the grasses wing.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 28, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/b8ama5

Being able to enter the US with passports they made out of old cereal packets, a 'Civil Rights' issue, say #EDL.


----------



## kenny g (Oct 29, 2012)

Goatse?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Segregation isn't "the nonce wing". Segregation is "the block" - a wing landing physically isolated from access from all the other wings, and with cells that contain no facilities (that is, no bogs, no basin, no power points), and only flameproofed cardboard furniture.


cheers! not well versed in 'prison etiquettes' etc.i assume he is closely watched as he will be vulnerable. his 'fame' is not going to do much good in there. the chump!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Is it wrong of me to suspect that there's going to be a gonzo porno film hitting the DVD market soon "starring" a load of drunken and coked up "patriotic" blokes sucking each other off in the back of a box-van?


 
oh and thanks for that VP! it was the 1st thing i read this morning! Urgh! what an image.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> It's also the grasses wing.


 
there are lots of rumours re: grassing about mr tommy. the first one came after they had tried to 'invade scotland' and were all nabbed then, oddly, taken back to yorkshire where mr tommy was allegedly pressured for info on far right types as well as football hooligans at upcoming soccer game things in exchange for leniency over his various legal woes. he has tried to exclude the far right from demos on occasion and failed pretty much. for someone who has a record going back to at least 2005, and several arrests subsequently, he has only been jailed for breaking bail conditions. at tower hamlets he knew he was going to get nicked but couldnt lose face as he'd been boasting about it, then the van thing which was clearly grassed up. some say it was hel gower or someone in the van but i cant ascertain how true this is.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2012)

NF achieve fuck all in rothers!
http://www.anti-fascists-online.com/so-was-it-worth-it-national-front-demo-in-rotherham/


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 29, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yes! Anyone know who he is?


George Crapper/Edwards?

https://www.duedil.com/director/917022442/george-edwards

http://www.anti-fascists-online.com/a-crapper-life/

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/user/george_edwards

And from Mal's link above:


----------



## plug ugly (Oct 29, 2012)

The Scottish chap who slapped Griffin is in court today. 

Hope it goes well for him!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 29, 2012)

good piece and photos too!
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-slow-painful-death-of-the-edl?utm_source=vicetwitter
best line: 
The demo felt like a vigil for Tommy Robinson, whom they were touting as some kind of far-right Aung San Suu Kyi


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 29, 2012)

I'm sure most have read this already - as a reminder the NWI and National Front are demonstrating in Liverpool this Saturday and LiverAF are countering - http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/oppose-the-north-west-infidels-3rd-november/


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 29, 2012)




----------



## plug ugly (Oct 29, 2012)

plug ugly said:


> The Scottish chap who slapped Griffin is in court today.
> 
> Hope it goes well for him!


 
He got a £100 fine


----------



## emanymton (Oct 29, 2012)

plug ugly said:


> He got a £100 fine


If I pay £100 up front can I give him a slap?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 30, 2012)

thats one way for griffin to raise more money before he 'retires' to croatia next year!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 30, 2012)




----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 30, 2012)

I think they were just trying to jump on the Pussy Riot band wagon. You know, wearing tea cosies and getting put in prison sort of thing.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 3, 2012)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/hate-groups/true-brits/



> *True Brits
> A new fascist party is formed in Britain*
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 3, 2012)

Is this them?






UAF have got a placard out already


----------



## co-op (Nov 3, 2012)

Anyone know what's going on in Norwich next weekend? Supposedly a few hundred EDL are due on the 10th.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 3, 2012)

if they are anything like the Infidels tonight in Liverpool, there will be about 30 of them


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 4, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> if they are anything like the Infidels tonight in Liverpool, there will be about 30 of them


 
Photos here http://www.demotix.com/news/1570847/far-right-north-west-infidels-demonstrate-liverpool


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 4, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Photos here http://www.demotix.com/news/1570847/far-right-north-west-infidels-demonstrate-liverpool


 
Good to see some one brought a black and red flag to the counter demo


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 4, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Is this them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that pretty funny for hope not hate!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 4, 2012)

according to CXF on facebook, liverpool 'anti-IRA' demo was 'piss poor planning, piss poor performance.' my words exactly!
amusing fallouts!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=430224313701604&set=o.260816450675220&type=1&theater


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 4, 2012)

co-op said:


> Anyone know what's going on in Norwich next weekend? Supposedly a few hundred EDL are due on the 10th.


hope not hate norwich are mobilising and had a pretty big meeting which was threatened by a teenage 'chav scrote' who failed to turn up. they shd be okay on that side of things. the EDL last week got 80 to a national, CXF 15 for their 'national' so it looks as if this regional will be in double figures if theyre lucky. they have no leadership, kkkev is banned/incapable and looking for an out with the PCC and the likes of paul pitt and tony curtis have been hoofed out leaving the EDL with no motivation. give up fuckwits!


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> according to CXF on facebook, liverpool 'anti-IRA' demo was 'piss poor planning, piss poor performance.' my words exactly!
> amusing fallouts!
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=430224313701604&set=o.260816450675220&type=1&theater



http://alertaantifasciste.wordpress...at-anti-irish-demo-in-liverpool-3rd-nov-2012/


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 4, 2012)

wow! that was embarrassing for them!


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 4, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> wow! that was embarrassing for them!


 
Definately, larger numbers were predicted but no support this time from Orange Lodges. Complete shambles and as blog suggests humilation continued away from police / demo point.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 4, 2012)

oh dear! 
'Far right poster boy and jail bird Liam Pinkham bumped into a group of militant antifascists and recieved a taste of his own medicine, for his first demo since his release from prison this should really make him question his involvement in politics all together.'


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 4, 2012)

Imagine holding an anti-Irish demo in Liverpool of all places


----------



## manny-p (Nov 4, 2012)

Gingerman said:


> Imagine holding an anti-Irish demo in Liverpool of all places


You would be surprised. Liverpool has been a racist city. Last time the fash stopped the irish there they appeared as a united front. Nothing like the IRA to get the fash singing from the same hymn sheet.


----------



## co-op (Nov 5, 2012)

manny-p said:


> You would be surprised. Liverpool has been a racist city. Last time the fash stopped the irish there they appeared as a united front. Nothing like the IRA to get the fash singing from the same hymn sheet.


 
Going back a bit, Liverpool was the home of Archibald Salvidge who pretty much created the first example of mass right-wing nationalist voting via the Working Men's Conservative Association in the 19thC, basically based on anti-Irish, anti-Catholic policies, opposition to Home Rule etc. I think it's a real tribute to the people of Liverpool that they have mostly overcome this crap (I mean compared to Glasgow etc).


----------



## laptop (Nov 5, 2012)

Gingerman said:


> Imagine holding an anti-Irish demo in Liverpool of all places


 
Only the odds are substantially different from holding one in Belfast, one might argue...

http://www.liverpool - lol.co.uk/

{Does not stand for Liverpool Laugh Out Loud, David}


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 5, 2012)

manny-p said:


> You would be surprised. Liverpool has been a racist city. Last time the fash stopped the irish there they appeared as a united front. Nothing like the IRA to get the fash singing from the same hymn sheet.


 
What stands Liverpool out for being racist?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2012)

Who is pulling dowson's strings btw? Or is he just a self-employed wrecking ball?


----------



## manny-p (Nov 5, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> What stands Liverpool out for being racist?


Toxteth riots were partly due to racism.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Who is pulling dowson's strings btw? Or is he just a self-employed wrecking ball?


he seems pretty much a wild card at times. with the anti-abortion thing, the BNP, now england first etc. he seems quite good at latching on then bailing when it gets wobbly. not seen much to the contrary but i wouldnt be surprised if there was a bit of 'networking' with anti-abortion campaigners.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 5, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Toxteth riots were partly due to racism.


 
and bad plod. and unemployment. and bad housing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Who is pulling dowson's strings btw? Or is he just a self-employed wrecking ball?


butchers, HnH on dowson ere:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/2307/oops
and
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/hate-groups/bf/


----------



## manny-p (Nov 5, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> and bad plod. and unemployment. and bad housing.


Remember watching a documentary about the Toxteth riots saying it was one of the most racist cities in the UK. So that's what I am using as my evidence. Not properly sourced I know!


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 5, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Remember watching a documentary about the Toxteth riots saying it was one of the most racist cities in the UK. So that's what I am using as my evidence. Not properly sourced I know!


 
Damning evidence.


----------



## Urban-Guerrilla (Nov 5, 2012)

http://gaughanstaggcumann.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/unity-amongst-antifascists-and-irish.html

NOV
4
*Unity amongst Antifascists and Irish Republicans, Growing Resistance against Fascism.*​


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 6, 2012)

good news UG! the combined ex-parcel forces and infidel bell ends have been very chastened by the events at the weekend. by which i mean they were humiliated, had a very poor turn out and one of their number got turned over. as disco dave also says no orange support. and plod were all over em after the february debacle!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 6, 2012)

'​Around 20 Irish Republicans and Antifascists progressed up the road directly into the fascist lines, outside the Town Hall'. good move.​​


----------



## manny-p (Nov 6, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> Damning evidence.


 


what co-op posted backs up my outrageous claim-



> Going back a bit, Liverpool was the home of Archibald Salvidge who pretty much created the first example of mass right-wing nationalist voting via the Working Men's Conservative Association in the 19thC, basically based on anti-Irish, anti-Catholic policies, opposition to Home Rule etc. I think it's a real tribute to the people of Liverpool that they have mostly overcome this crap (I mean compared to Glasgow etc).


----------



## co-op (Nov 6, 2012)

manny-p said:


> what co-op posted backs up my outrageous claim-
> 
> ​


 


"Salvidgism" was 100 years before Toxteth so it's not what I'd call directly linked. Anyway the football fans of Liverpool have turned it all inside out a bit brilliantly since The Kop have somehow become unofficial You'll-Never-Walk-Alone brothers to Celtic, instead of Everton, and thus confused the fuck out of decent honest orangemen everywhere.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 6, 2012)

As might have the black orange pubs (in south liverpool?)


----------



## manny-p (Nov 6, 2012)

co-op said:


> "Salvidgism" was 100 years before Toxteth so it's not what I'd call directly linked. Anyway the football fans of Liverpool have turned it all inside out a bit brilliantly since The Kop have somehow become unofficial You'll-Never-Walk-Alone brothers to Celtic, instead of Everton, and thus confused the fuck out of decent honest orangemen everywhere.


Not directly linked no. But it shows Liverpool has historically not been so 'nice'.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> As might have the black orange pubs (in south liverpool?)


Orange lodges comrade?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 6, 2012)

manny-p said:


> Orange lodges comrade?


Always ends in the pub brother.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Always ends in the pub brother.


Masonic


----------



## co-op (Nov 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> As might have the black orange pubs (in south liverpool?)


 
As in black orangemen? Never came across that one, and my grandfather was a marcher.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 6, 2012)

co-op said:


> As in black orangemen? Never came across that one, and my grandfather was a marcher.


Yep, orange pubs in south liverpool - not ness marchers or in lodge but orange pubs. Fed may have something to say about this. (Not shoveling proof of this onto him either).


----------



## co-op (Nov 6, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Yep, orange pubs in south liverpool - not ness marchers or in lodge but orange pubs. Fed may have something to say about this. (Not shoveling proof of this onto him either).


 
Never knew that. This is why Liverpool is a great city and also why urban is a great website.


----------



## framed (Nov 6, 2012)

'Black Orange' is a reference to the Royal Black Institution or _Black Preceptory_ of the Orange Order.


----------



## co-op (Nov 6, 2012)

framed said:


> 'Black Orange' is a reference to the Royal Black Institution or _Black Preceptory_ of the Orange Order.


 
Well I'd heard of the Royal Black, that's the kind of kooky backwater that various of my family hung out in back in the day (their enthusiasm seems to be waning as the decades tick away). But I take butchers to be talking about something else, i.e. black orangemen. There's a fine headfuck for the sashmen (although they do have a weird EDL-style 'non-racist' anti-catholic thing going on in their own heids so maybe it'd just make them feel really GREAT about the orange movement and how multicultural it is).


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 6, 2012)

I do mean black pubs - black orange pubs.


----------



## framed (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm sure Joe Owens' disenchantment with the Orange Order in Liverpool had something to do with its multiracial make-up.

Some of the loyalist element among the rangers support used to produce pictures of Orangemen from the Congo and photos of Native Americans from their Canadian lodges all sashed up as proof of their 'anti-racism'. That was cool with us, if a bit bizarre, but it didn't push them into doing anything about the fascist paper sellers outside Ibrox Stadium.


----------



## co-op (Nov 6, 2012)

framed said:


> Some of the loyalist element among the rangers support used to produce pictures of Orangemen from the Congo and photos of Native Americans from their Canadian lodges all sashed up as proof of their 'anti-racism'. That was cool with us, if a bit bizarre, but it didn't push them into doing anything about the fascist paper sellers outside Ibrox Stadium.


 
Sounds like it could be just the ticket for Paulo di Canio!


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 7, 2012)

CxF 'soldiers' on patrol yesterday http://www.anti-fascists-online.com/silly-season-is-upon-us-once-again/


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 8, 2012)

its embarrassing! they recorded an interview with the radio which will not be played as the reporter could not verify what they were saying. usual shit along with baa baa white sheep, theyve banned christmas, santa claus is not real etc. wankers.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 8, 2012)

ah ha! the whole liverpool poppy thing was totally made up: 
I've had an email from the Merseyside police press office.

Hi John,

In response to your call:

Merseyside Police can confirm that no incidents of this nature took place in St John's Centre on Saturday, 3 November 2012.

Kind regards,

Nicola


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 8, 2012)

They do this all the time. I remember recently when Nick Griffin tweeted that Huddersfield war memorial had been vandalised by Muslims shortly after a group of soldiers from Hudderfield had died in Afghanistan. It was complete horseshit that he'd made up, but I still keep hearing people mention it like it actually happened in conversation even recently. It's very dangerous.


----------



## Ld222 (Nov 9, 2012)

EDL Website hacked

http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/


----------



## Fedayn (Nov 10, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Yep, orange pubs in south liverpool - not ness marchers or in lodge but orange pubs. Fed may have something to say about this. (Not shoveling proof of this onto him either).


 
Definitely boozers there with a distinct citrus flavour. There's 2 clubs too The Derry Club and the Provincial Club. They're both in Everton in the north of the city though.There's certainly a loyalist element in Garston (South Liverpool) probably 'based' around the Garston True Blues a loyalist flute band in the area.
As an aside Alexei Sayles wife is from an Orange family in Liverpool.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 10, 2012)

Newcastle has loads of orange women...


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 10, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Newcastle has loads of orange women...


 
 and it's not from eating fruit either!


----------



## bignose1 (Nov 10, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Newcastle has loads of orange women...


Are there any Orange Lodges around Lime Street......


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 10, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Are there any Orange Lodges around Lime Street......


next to the Apple store


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 10, 2012)

Don't want to play gooseberry here, but are there any fascists lurking? Could you please go out and do something pointless so that the debate does not descend into fruit based puns and we can get back to slagging you off for the useless tossers you are!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 10, 2012)

call the pun squad KevSLTJ!


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 10, 2012)

You find them in the big *MARKET*


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 10, 2012)

Awww...... What are you Pear like!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 10, 2012)

Apparently the edl held a flash demo outside Wandsworth today in support of Tommy - 2 people turned up LOL 

Facebook page hacked, website hacked - lols all round


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 10, 2012)

Here they all are -


----------



## cesare (Nov 10, 2012)




----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 10, 2012)

Ld222 said:


> EDL Website hacked
> 
> http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/



Sponsored link:

Meet Muslim women for marriage.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 10, 2012)

lol 

So much better than the 404 error earlier today


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 10, 2012)




----------



## co-op (Nov 10, 2012)

Could have been 200 EDL marched today in Norwich - that was the figure people were reporting who got to see them but I didn't manage to find my way round the massive police presence to get a proper view of them. Mostly bussed in from outside, there were 3 coaches at the station I saw which I think were theirs (police around them), About 1500 demonstrators for We Are Norwich opposed, some (about half is my estimate) tried a direct blockage of the EDL route I believe but since I was babysitting  a four-year-old as well as demonstrating I wasn't involved in that. I've just been told the coaches have left the station - I guess out of town, I don't think the police would let them go anywhere else, but I imagine there'll be a bit of trouble later when the Norwich EDL contingent have got pissed enough.

The EDP have done quite a good job blogging events.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/live_blog_first_ever_english_defence_league_protest_in_norwich_1_1688505

Anyway it may not have been much of a turnout in the big scheme of things but they're not totally collapsed yet.


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 10, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Are there any Orange Lodges around Lime Street......


Merged with T Mobile now


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 10, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Apparently the edl held a flash demo outside Wandsworth today in support of Tommy - 2 people turned up LOL
> 
> Facebook page hacked, website hacked - lols all round


 
So that will be a 'Gash' demo then...nobs


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 10, 2012)

stuff up on Indy:
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2012/11/502654.html?c=on#c289130


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 10, 2012)

oh dear oh dear


----------



## xes (Nov 10, 2012)

is that guy wearing stockings and suspenders under that back2front england jumpsuit?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 10, 2012)

http://twitpic.com/bc3q49

'National Demo'


----------



## Balbi (Nov 10, 2012)

xes said:


> is that guy wearing stockings and suspenders under that back2front england jumpsuit?



https://twitter.com/WankersFullKit innit.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 10, 2012)

Balbi said:


> https://twitter.com/WankersFullKit innit.


 cheers!


----------



## Turboprop (Nov 10, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-20279687

I'm a bit worried about this. When they get pissed off about something in Norwich it's worth taking notice. Normally, anything go's pretty much around there, so they are 'slightly miffed' about something if this is happening.


----------



## Billyboy (Nov 11, 2012)

Good to see that you like waching the EDL, i have as well, all good stuff that i have seen so far, that Tommy Robinson, top man i must say.
I will let you know when i see them again.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 11, 2012)

what is this good stuff then?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 11, 2012)

Billyboy said:


> Good to see that you like waching the EDL, i have as well, all good stuff that i have seen so far, that Tommy Robinson, top man i must say.
> I will let you know when i see them again.


Are you going to visit him in prison in the US?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 11, 2012)

Turboprop said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-20279687
> 
> I'm a bit worried about this. When they get pissed off about something in Norwich it's worth taking notice. Normally, anything go's pretty much around there, so they are 'slightly miffed' about something if this is happening.


 
In the news report you quote it was all about some anti islam stuff a Rev had published and the council got all shirty- seems like a bit of a noob to me:

http://www.geocities.ws/alancclifford/AlanCCliffordExposed.htm

http://nrchurch.limewebs.com/islam5.htm

No wonder Billy the Boy likes it - Say "Twat" to tommy for me when you visit.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 11, 2012)

latest 'malatesta' http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/no-hope-in-norwich/


----------



## xes (Nov 11, 2012)

Balbi said:


> https://twitter.com/WankersFullKit innit.


I dunno, it's defanatly a garter belt halfway down his leg.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 11, 2012)

billy boy will no doubt be joininng the EDL prison division sometime soon. piss poor posts billy!


----------



## xes (Nov 11, 2012)

Billyboy said:


> Good to see that you like waching the EDL, i have as well, all good stuff that i have seen so far, that Tommy Robinson, top man i must say.
> I will let you know when i see them again.


pathetic bunch of fucking loosers. You're a cock, now fuck off and crawl back under the rock you came from, cuntface.


----------



## bignose1 (Nov 11, 2012)

Balbi said:


> https://twitter.com/WankersFullKit innit.


 Hes not very lycrable.....


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 11, 2012)

Don't know if this was posted by an EDL or not but it's funny as fuck, as is the first comment below it in Youtube:

_"The EDL called this an epic fight. I have seen more violent table tennis games. What a bunch of pussies the EDL are"._



_________________________________________________________________

definition of Embarrassing: making you feel nervous, ashamed, or stupid

The situation was most embarrassing on the slippery mound
I wish he wouldn't ask such embarrassing questions on that mound thing.

Collocations
acutely, deeply, highly, intensely, terribly, Norwich, slippery mound,


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 11, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't know if this was posted by an EDL or not but it's funny as fuck, as is the first comment below it in Youtube:
> 
> _"The EDL called this an epic fight. I have seen more violent table tennis games. What a bunch of pussies the EDL are"._
> 
> ...




I was so embarrassed watching the video I never made it to the fight scene! Didn't realise there was one until now


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 12, 2012)

Billyboy said:


> Good to see that you like waching the EDL, i have as well, all good stuff that i have seen so far, that Tommy Robinson, top man i must say.
> I will let you know when i see them again.



Welcome to Urban Billyboy. 

I thought at first you could be a jolly japing troll, here to take the piss out of the EDL, but looking at your other posts such as the leaden cliche about the "fascist UAF" on other thread, I detect either the real deal or a late comer for the 2012 "Poes Law Award" shortlist.

With 3 posts in a short period and no show since I do hope you haven't surrendered like over 90% of those who used to turn up to EDL demos :-(

I am interested that you consider the incarcerated Mr Lennon/Robinson/Harris to be a "top man"
Do you seek to take after him by finding the murder of scores of children really funny? 
That's not a joke by the way. Please tell us. A yes or no will do really. Short caveats and qualifications could make you look a bit stupid. You wouldn't want us thinking you were stupid would you?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2012)

'nationalist youth's virility flagging?'


----------



## xes (Nov 12, 2012)

that's still definatly a garter belt just above his knee.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2012)

im stunned! no really! 
http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/luton-remembrance-service-disrupted-1-4469110


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 12, 2012)

> *English Defence League*
> 
> englishdefenceleague.org/
> Oh wow! _*EDL*_ admins have been harassing innocent people and stealing money from them to fund their racist adventures. Proof: *...*



* *


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 12, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> im stunned! no really!
> http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/luton-remembrance-service-disrupted-1-4469110


 
The comments added are even more stunning.... pure troll pish... with the aroma of KKKev and possibly even a hint of Simon Bennett


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 12, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> * *


 
Well and truly hacked/exposed!


----------



## Mapped (Nov 13, 2012)

That's a great hack


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 13, 2012)

Why does the second email say that 0%  of memory used but third email says there's over 27,000 messages in inbox? 

Fair play on the hacking etc but blatantly bullshitting isn't going to land many blows on the far right. 

They could be different accounts I suppose but evidence that they're linked to the EDL would be helpful.

E2a: seems the first and second emails is 'edlsubscription' but the third one is 'jack smith' (google account) or 'Tim Abbot' (email addressee)... Who that?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 13, 2012)

http://pastebin.com/XXt3yhWU

^ They just released this, a list of EDL donors, is it the same list of people that has been leaked before or new? Can't tell atm.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 13, 2012)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't know if this was posted by an EDL or not but it's funny as fuck, as is the first comment below it in Youtube:
> 
> _"The EDL called this an epic fight. I have seen more violent table tennis games. What a bunch of pussies the EDL are"._
> 
> ...





Love this, the fella never dropped his guitar and the blonde girl was just sat there whilst they are wrestled around her. She lifted her skirt up and showed her arse to the EDL just after the police had stopped the 'epic fight' which was a nice touch.

That pastebin list is new. Tim Ablitt is quite senior and 'looks after' their finances/paypal accounts etc


----------



## Fingers (Nov 13, 2012)

Another vid of the 'epic battle' and link to some photos



http://www.flickr.com/photos/shelleyburrows/8178835515/in/photostream/


----------



## stuff_it (Nov 13, 2012)

ddraig said:


> what is this good stuff then?


You missed the teampoison haxoring then?


----------



## ddraig (Nov 13, 2012)

no saw it


----------



## youngian (Nov 14, 2012)

*Luton Remembrance service disrupted by EDL activist over laying white poppy wreath*

*http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/luton-remembrance-service-disrupted-1-4469110*

“Kevin Carroll waved a clenched fist at me and my four-year-old son and started shouting aggressively.
“He called me a scumbag and said when he was police commissioner he would make sure I went to jail for this.”


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 14, 2012)

looks good for his PCC campaign then dont it?


----------



## ddraig (Nov 14, 2012)

danger of hardly any voting so could still be in it!


----------



## PandaCola (Nov 15, 2012)

There's an 'EDL candidate' standing in the Rotherham by-election

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/...-edl-stand-candidate-in-rotherham-by-election


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 15, 2012)

what a cock. he's publicised his campaign almost as well as kkkev has!


----------



## Fingers (Nov 15, 2012)




----------



## CNT36 (Nov 15, 2012)

Gold. I Hope thats still up. ' Oh and I'm not a Nonce been edl since May 2010'


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 15, 2012)

Blimey '_an employer of sky and living or from the Exeter area_' I dunno which would be worse!

Dumb ass freaks!


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 15, 2012)

@*GoJonnyBananas* *BBC* *Anglia* reporting that Kevin Carroll "Lost... &lost big!"


----------



## BlackArab (Nov 16, 2012)

I feel sorry for that poor dog!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> @*GoJonnyBananas* *BBC* *Anglia* reporting that Kevin Carroll "Lost... &lost big!"


 
According to the BBC News website, Wiltshire is the only overnight PCC count..?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 16, 2012)

hilariously inept as usual. this grassing culture is strong in the far right.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 16, 2012)

sunderland bother from NF etc planned! 
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/i...nother-protest-against-sunderland-mosque.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 16, 2012)

here are the 'northern patriotic front' - really going for the suit and tie look!


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> @*GoJonnyBananas* *BBC* *Anglia* reporting that Kevin Carroll "Lost... &lost big!"


 
Results haven't been announced yet, so she can't have had that information.
Check this link for the results later:

http://www.choosemypcc.org.uk/candidates/area/bedfordshire


----------



## Fingers (Nov 16, 2012)

Not to be deterred by yesterday's massive intelligence fuck up, CxF issue another statement


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 16, 2012)

Rain of terror eh? Scary stuff.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 16, 2012)

In other words, they're just going to make a load of shit up.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 16, 2012)

There was a few EDL at the demo outside the Israeli embassy last night.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 16, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> There was a few EDL at the demo outside the Israeli embassy last night.


Was that you dancing for the edl the other day ding ding?


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Was that you dancing for the edl the other day ding ding?


 
Even I could of done better than that Herbert.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 16, 2012)

malatesta on PCC
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/taking-the-pcc/


----------



## plug ugly (Nov 16, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> malatesta on PCC
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/taking-the-pcc/


 
I don't think you can really insta-slag the EDL here. 

10% is a pretty respectable first time result. I think if they lost their deposit that would be embarrassing but 10% is fairly decent.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 16, 2012)

10% is a very good result - it can't and won't translate into anything unless it's shown that there was a huge vote in one ward. As a battle point it's well good. Reality of the low turnout and huge electorate regardless.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 16, 2012)

It is a good result, but I'd be doubtful if they could replicate that sort of result in other elections that aren't a total farce.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 16, 2012)

They can't. It gives them some local/internal political space.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 16, 2012)

plug ugly said:


> I don't think you can really insta-slag the EDL here.



It's an anti fascist blog. Wouldn't really fit with the editorial to praise them, 'ey?


----------



## plug ugly (Nov 16, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> It's an anti fascist blog. Wouldn't really fit with the editorial to praise them, 'ey?


 
Ermmm so rather than giving a candid political analysis which has some use to those interested in the far-right you'd rather just say everything they do is shit every time?

The far-right and the wet-lettuce lefties have a habit of that.

I'm just asking for the left to actual give a truthful analysis.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 16, 2012)

plug ugly said:


> Ermmm so rather than giving a candid political analysis which has some use to those interested in the far-right you'd rather just say everything they do is shit every time?
> 
> The far-right and the wet-lettuce lefties have a habit of that.
> 
> I'm just asking for the left to actual give a truthful analysis.



I don't think the blog claims to give analysis? It's a humorous look at events.

Here's my analysis though: the EDL isn't a political party, Kevin wasn't an 'EDL candidate', so I'm unsure why you think it's an 'inta-slag' of the EDL. Not being particularly truthful there yourself, either.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 16, 2012)

Let's wait to see how he gets on in an election with more than 12% turnout before making any predictions.

This whole PCC election has been a farce, and probabaly represents the best opportunity in a generation for a far-right protest candidates to make gains. If this is the best they can do, in the most most favourable electoral circumstances they're ever likely to get, I wouldn't expect to much out of them in the future.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 16, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Let's wait to see how he gets on in an election with more than 12% turnout before making any predictions.
> 
> This whole PCC election has been a farce, and probabaly represents the best opportunity in a generation for a far-right protest candidates to make gains. If this is the best they can do, in the most most favourable electoral circumstances they're ever likely to get, I wouldn't expect to much out of them in the future.


He'll get fucking nowhere - that's not the point. The point is they put whatever it was on with -  as you were all crowing -  no help, getting caught up in some rubbish and so on - what does that say about the potential vote that's out there?

And no, the pcc elections did "not represents the best opportunity in a generation for a far-right protest candidates to make gains" (the cry election after election) - the euro-2008 ones did, and they did.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> what does that say about the potential vote that's out there?


 
I don't dispute there's potential out there. It's there, I just don't think British Freedom will be the ones to harness it.



butchersapron said:


> And no, the pcc elections did "not represents the best opportunity in a generation for a far-right protest candidates to make gains" (the cry election after election) - the euro-2008 ones did, and they did.


 
You misquoted me I said "_probably_ represents the best opportunity in a generation for a far-right protest candidates to make gains." The Euro elections in 2008 and this one are the leading contenders in my opinon.

That one due to disillusionment with decades worth of Labour and a BNP that was making solid gains. This one on account of an incredibly low (unprecidented) turnout and the election being ostensibly based around Law and Order issues which you would suspect makes the situation favourable to right-wing independents and protest votes (such as the Zero Tolerance candidate beating that Tory in Surrey wasn't it?)


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 16, 2012)

No one said they would - and that's not a misquote really as adding the word in makes it mean what i said.

This one is nothing compared to the euro 2008, because a) it's not a national election and b) there were no far-right candidates for people to vote for. The far-right are in electoral decline for sure, but make the comparison slightly apt eh?


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 16, 2012)

I thought a 'protest vote' were votes by people who don't normally vote that way ie - Tory voters voting far right because the Conservative party have pissed them off in some way and they want to nudge them slightly to the right. Ergo, a 'protest vote' by far right voters wouldn't be to vote for a far right candidate.


----------



## plug ugly (Nov 16, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't think the blog claims to give analysis? It's a humorous look at events.


I think it does, unfortunately. It seems to be trying to give political analysis with a humorous edge, _Class War_ style.



> Here's my analysis though: the EDL isn't a political party, Kevin wasn't an 'EDL candidate', so I'm unsure why you think it's an 'inta-slag' of the EDL. Not being particularly truthful there yourself, either.


 
The EDL and the BFP are hardly two totally autonomous organisations are they. And I could have exchanged EDL with far-right or fash or whatever label, hardly a call for being a pedant.

And what good does a joke about the BFP/EDL doing shit do anyway?


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 16, 2012)

plug ugly said:


> I think it does, unfortunately. It seems to be trying to give political analysis with a humorous edge, _Class War_ style.



i guess you don't really know what analysis is then which, in that light, makes it odd that you're demanding it.



> The EDL and the BFP are hardly two totally autonomous organisations are they. And I could have exchanged EDL with far-right or fash or whatever label, hardly a call for being a pedant.
> 
> And what good does a joke about the BFP/EDL doing shit do anyway?



you followed up your complaint about lack of analysis (about a blog that isn't giving any) with innacuracies of your own. Not a really sound starting block is it?

I guess the 'good' a joke about the BFP/EDL does is equatable with pissing and moaning about it on some niche bulletin board.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 16, 2012)

Malatesta blog reads to me like a slightly dotty Scottish teacher making fun of constantly marking down the class clown. Of course it's predictable what will be said. Humour works that way. It panders to people's prejudices like the mainstream media does. You're attacking it for something it doesn't claim to do. Where's your hard hitting analysis then?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 16, 2012)

Being a bit aggressive here c66.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Being a bit aggressive here c66.



I half suspect it's a glove puppet of yours for some reason!  

Fair dos, sorry for aggression etc. as you were.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 16, 2012)

8000 votes in a "county" election of nondiscript nature and by a candidate who actually canvassed against himself by being an ugly lying merchandising thuggish cunt, is not something to be ignored. I would say that the vote was more due to Kevin "the gerbil" Carrolls EDL contacts/infamy than for the nazi fucks he's running with now. 8000 for them constitutes a successful mobilization. No wonder they see it as something big.
There's obviously a big difference between what they can field on the streets and what they can obtain in a confusing election without a large campaign budget.

Yes, wet lettuce lefties can be as complacent as they like.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2012)

propaganda never did anyone any harm tho eh chaps? we are not a news service but 'political/satirical cunch of bunts.'


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Not to be deterred by yesterday's massive intelligence fuck up, CxF issue another statement


 
incredible. they really have lost the plot havent they?


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 17, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Let's wait to see how he gets on in an election with more than 12% turnout before making any predictions.
> 
> This whole PCC election has been a farce, and *probabaly represents the best opportunity in a generation for a far-right protest candidates to make gains*. If this is the best they can do, in the most most favourable electoral circumstances they're ever likely to get, I wouldn't expect to much out of them in the future.


 
couldn't be more wrong a) unless there is a local issue for the far right to really exploit then everything goes back to voting Labour mainly to over the benefit cuts b) the far right were better organised and more politically savvy under New labour and made the best gains *ever* for the far right in that period c) the PPC elections in themselves would not necessarily be a good election culture for the far right even though all mainstream parties agree with the £6k deposit to deter them.

I agree with you that although the 10% for BF was a good vote  that they haven't the politics to actually build on it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> 10% is a very good result - it can't and won't translate into anything unless it's shown that there was a huge vote in one ward. As a battle point it's well good. Reality of the low turnout and huge electorate regardless.


 
yeah i get the feeling the vote will be focussed in a small area where EDL came from and spread much thinly 'cross the 'shire!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Malatesta blog reads to me like a slightly dotty Scottish teacher making fun of constantly marking down the class clown. Of course it's predictable what will be said. Humour works that way. It panders to people's prejudices like the mainstream media does. You're attacking it for something it doesn't claim to do. Where's your hard hitting analysis then?


 
C66 almost completely wrong! but i think an extremely fair analysis of the blog. its reporting what we have found out, mixed with humour and some complete lies. we think its pretty obvious that its not meant to be objective. we hate the fash! why give them an objective slant. now, i must go and mark some essays on the semiotics of the broons!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Malatesta blog reads to me like a slightly dotty Scottish teacher making fun of constantly marking down the class clown.


this has made my day! thanks, it really made me laugh! cheers! (and not being sarky either).


----------



## Turboprop (Nov 17, 2012)

Billyboy said:


> Good to see that you like waching the EDL, i have as well, all good stuff that i have seen so far, that Tommy Robinson, top man i must say.
> I will let you know when i see them again.


 
I like keeping a watch on what the cerebrally challenged members of the edl are doing, probably out of morbid curiosity.

In this case I am supporting 'We Are Norwich' for their stance against leaflets promoting racial hatred


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 18, 2012)

blimey billyboy seems a bit lonely. perhaps he shd join up with the equally lonely and reviled jeffrey marshbubbles from cagoules united.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 19, 2012)

Micky Bayliss, Bristol EDL - the guy who said ""The last thing we want to do as an organisation is cause any trouble", has been arrested for graffitting mosques & sikh temples

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/EDL-...fiti-attacks/story-17362146-detail/story.html


----------



## co-op (Nov 19, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Micky Bayliss, Bristol EDL - the guy who said ""The last thing we want to do as an organisation is cause any trouble", has been arrested for graffitting mosques & *sikh temples*


 


Wonder how this went down with the EDL's "Sikh Division"? Or maybe his grafs were welcoming and anti-racist?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2012)

how old are these guys? pigs heads and kryptonite bacon on mosques? grafitti? allah is a pedo? middle aged blocks rucking with plod. the whole EDL thing smacks of reliving past hooligan glories. which were pretty shit 1st time round. fucking grow up.


----------



## co-op (Nov 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the whole EDL thing smacks of reliving past hooligan glories. which were pretty shit 1st time round. fucking grow up.


 
I always used to think the whole Luton/MIGs turning into the EDL thing really just came from years of them having to listen to other firms chanting "you're just a town full of pakis" at them meaning they had to prove themselves to be proper hardcore white. It's a real leftover from another era in that sense.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> how old are these guys? pigs heads and kryptonite bacon on mosques? grafitti? allah is a pedo? middle aged blocks rucking with plod. the whole EDL thing smacks of reliving past hooligan glories. which were pretty shit 1st time round. fucking grow up.



1970s fash re-enactment society. Wonder when turd will start going through letter boxes and crank calls to pascifist women start up again.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2012)

we did some stuff on this on the blog about the ageing hooligans now using EDL etc as an excuse for piss up and a ruck, with either asian community, left or plod. the sentencing following the disastrous headhunters/ICF trials remain in place so 'politics' gives em space to re-enact the 1980s without getting major sentences. the whole thing stinks of too much lager and jingoism.


----------



## Nice one (Nov 19, 2012)

for any london bods this weekend


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2012)

ha ha good graphic! shall put it on the blog!


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 19, 2012)

Casual anarchists


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 19, 2012)

not sure about the trainers tho. DMs all the way!


----------



## caoineadh7 (Nov 19, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah i saw EDL chat get closed last night, anything before that the mentioned Ricard Price was wiped, also on the EDL forums all threads where wiped/locked.
> 
> anyone who spoke out about it was not real EDL and comments where wiped, most of the thick fucks think he was stiched up and it's old news, time to move on etc.
> 
> Then last night Tommy posted this massive thing about Heroin which to me was just a massive smoke screen that they wanted to move talk about Pricey and onto the evils of drugs... which is a massive LOL if you ask me.


 


Many EDL types drink in my local pub. Most are simply deeply misguided. I never mock them, I think they are simply products of what they have been told. IMO the best way is not to conceive an Us and them mentality, but to seek to influence in discussing where the real power lies and how working class people are manipulated and lied to and controlled, to try to show them the bigger picture. Its not an easy thing when people are kept in their place by a media that uses racism as a means of control.

In my opinion many on the left are intimidated by working class uneducated males, mockery and abuse is not the answer and when did shouting at people ever get anyone to change their opinion ?

The real problem is there are not enough working class males or females on the left who mix in such environments or can relate to that world.

The way forward is people becoming a voice in their community to challenge reactionary opinions like fascism, racism etc, thats where its really at, shouting abuse at people marching only furthers their sense of being alienated, it furthers their group solidarity and misguided beliefs.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 19, 2012)

Cool


----------



## bignose1 (Nov 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> how old are these guys? pigs heads and kryptonite bacon on mosques? grafitti? allah is a pedo? middle aged blocks rucking with plod. the whole EDL thing smacks of reliving past hooligan glories. which were pretty shit 1st time round. fucking grow up.


Aw come on Mal....


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 19, 2012)

Meanwhile


----------



## krink (Nov 19, 2012)

'kinell bob, i'm in tears here...beautiful


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 20, 2012)

Has Tommy gone on the blanket yet?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2012)

> _Jailed for speaking the truth and fighting for democracy._


 
_And for all them murders you done._


----------



## frogwoman (Nov 20, 2012)

i hate this "we are all" shit


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 20, 2012)

Dp


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 20, 2012)

caoineadh7 said:
			
		

> Many EDL types drink in my local pub. Most are simply deeply misguided. I never mock them, I think they are simply products of what they have been told. <snip>
> 
> The real problem is there are not enough working class males or females on the left who mix in such environments or can relate to that world.



Left wing working class male and females can't relate to and don't  mix in pubs?


----------



## weepiper (Nov 20, 2012)

About 4 or 5 SDL turned up to the Edinburgh Gaza protest last weekend (numbers turned out between 700-1000 so they were a bit outnumbered). They got told to fuck off in short order when they first appeared but were hassling people again by the end of it, taking pictures right up in people's faces etc until the police finally made them bugger off.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 20, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Left wing working class male and females can't relate to and don't mix in pubs?


 
too busy either going to Hebden Bridge or hanging around in bars with hipsters and artists


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 20, 2012)

caoineadh7 said:


> Many EDL types drink in my local pub. Most are simply deeply misguided. I never mock them, I think they are simply products of what they have been told. IMO the best way is not to conceive an Us and them mentality, but to seek to influence in discussing where the real power lies and how working class people are manipulated and lied to and controlled, to try to show them the bigger picture. Its not an easy thing when people are kept in their place by a media that uses racism as a means of control.
> 
> In my opinion many on the left are intimidated by working class uneducated males, mockery and abuse is not the answer and when did shouting at people ever get anyone to change their opinion ?
> 
> ...


Part of engaging with people in pubs (and work/here/anywhere) is mocking them. Not in the shirt way often done on here - but laughing at them is not a no-no.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 20, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Left wing working class male and females can't relate to and don't mix in pubs?


 
if left wing working class blokes spent less time in the pub i might get a bit more work done!


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 20, 2012)

Pubs? pfft i spend my weekends on my Pony listening to my Ipod Nano.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2012)

The ones that used to wind me up at my former workplace really enjoyed Four Lions by Chris Morris.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 20, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Pubs? pfft i spend my weekends on my Pony listening to my Ipod Nano.


oh bob. pubs are better than anything horse!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 20, 2012)

Hello prison I am in you


----------



## krink (Nov 21, 2012)

exactly, spanky. i have seriously contemplated murdering a certain journalist who says '[place] i am in you' every time they tweet about arriving somewhere !


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 21, 2012)

Nice one said:


> for any london bods this weekend


if anyone's going can they PM me?


----------



## bignose1 (Nov 22, 2012)

I was passing through Colwyn Bay and saw this...wtf


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> not sure about the trainers tho. DMs all the way!


could be steel-toe trainers, which i think doc marten's have made

but i don't think adidas have


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 22, 2012)

i am not in the business of wearing trainers but surely steel caps wd inhibit the jogging for which such footwear is used for?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 22, 2012)

the fact it is also an asian deli makes the KKK ting that bit weirder!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 22, 2012)

now this is a shoe!


----------



## bignose1 (Nov 22, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> now this is a shoe!
> 
> Dodgy looking fellah came round to our house the other night flogging similar footwear but with little perforations on the top and sides.....a brogue trader if ever I saw one....


----------



## elbows (Nov 22, 2012)

Its certainly been an interesting century for shoes so far.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 22, 2012)

yep, you've also had the shoe-bomber


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 23, 2012)

And the shoe-ting of Osama Bin Laden.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 23, 2012)

blimey spiney, are you bignose in disguise? shoe chi minh? shoe guevara?


----------



## bignose1 (Nov 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> blimey spiney, are you bignose in disguise? shoe chi minh? shoe guevara?


Sandalnistsas......!


----------



## Balbi (Nov 23, 2012)

Aung San Shoe Kyi


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2012)

North West Insoledels


----------



## framed (Nov 23, 2012)

Toe-me Shoeridan

OK, maybe not as exotic as the others... 

I was going for feet rather than footwear. 



I'll get me coat...


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 23, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Sandalnistsas......!


 
awwwww! yes!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 23, 2012)

shit gag spoiler: trot-ski boots?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2012)

we are all bignose1


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 23, 2012)

Infidellesse


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 23, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the fact it is also an asian deli makes the KKK ting that bit weirder!


 
There's an Indian newsagents in Newcastle called Aryan News

Anyway what about the recently departed Shoelie Waterson?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 23, 2012)

Also Ian Trainer is the Guardian's Europe editor.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 23, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Anyway what about the recently departed Shoelie Waterson?


 
Like many a seasoned swappie, well versed in the art of flip-flops.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 24, 2012)

Tommy Ruberinsole.

*slopes of, suitably ashamed*


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 24, 2012)

Define an EDL demo these days - Hush Puppies

Define plenty of EDL online conversations - Wanna see some puppies little boy/girl

What do all BFP members wear to AGM's - (N)Everlast


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 24, 2012)

who started this?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 24, 2012)

Fucking Lace-ists


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 24, 2012)

So today it the day then.......


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 24, 2012)

for????


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 24, 2012)

... standing about in the rain 'celebrating' mr tommy's birthday?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 24, 2012)

About 30 EDL standing around in the rain...more arriving, but people drifting off to find a pub already! Prob same amount of plod.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 24, 2012)




----------



## free spirit (Nov 24, 2012)

I've seen bigger and scarier looking groups of trainspotters.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 24, 2012)

Innit.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 24, 2012)

Not even a 100 for the national demo to free the leader?

DEAD


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 24, 2012)

..as a Dodo.


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2012)

That doesnt really surprise me. Both the EDL and the BNP thought they had found something to tap into here in Nuneaton, and I know all to well that they were indeed onto something in theory. Neither were up to the job though, BNP local election gains came undone and the EDL had no fun in Nuneaton the second time around on 27th Nov 2010. They only had fun the first time (September 2010 I think) because people & the police were not ready for them and they found a welcoming pub that was just across a road from the area of town with the highest density of muslim population. Plenty of muslim youths noticed and stood on the opposite side of the road and vaguely clashed with them for a few hours, raising tensions considerably.

Rather inevitably to my mind that is when they peaked, and its been downhill for them ever since. I would be interested to know when they actually peaked on a national basis, eg in terms of quantity of demos and attendance figures?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 24, 2012)

elbows said:


> That doesnt really surprise me. Both the EDL and the BNP thought they had found something to tap into here in Nuneaton, and I know all to well that they were indeed onto something in theory. Neither were up to the job though, BNP local election gains came undone and the EDL had no fun in Nuneaton the second time around on 27th Nov 2010. They only had fun the first time (September 2010 I think) because people & the police were not ready for them and they found a welcoming pub that was just across a road from the area of town with the highest density of muslim population. Plenty of muslim youths noticed and stood on the opposite side of the road and vaguely clashed with them for a few hours, raising tensions considerably.
> 
> Rather inevitably to my mind that is when they peaked, and its been downhill for them ever since. I would be interested to know when they actually peaked on a national basis, eg in terms of quantity of demos and attendance figures?


Will be interesting to see what happens if Yaxley-Lennon gets sent down for the passport thing - or even extradited to the US.

Meltdown, hopefully.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 25, 2012)

MASSIVE


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 25, 2012)

well it was a pisspoor turnout. we got there late, soaking and were a bit disappointed. 30-50 stood about, plod disinterested - the least i have seen on any EDL do so far - and so we went to the pub. ended up sat next to a few of them. the whole day was a washout in more ways than one. still we had a laugh tho! report to follow! dont hold yr breath!


----------



## keybored (Nov 25, 2012)

EDL reactions to news that 15yo Malala Yousufzai is to stay here after having treatment in Birmingham.







Original article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-permanent-home-Britain-speaking-Taliban.html.

Edit for fairness: It's not just EDL, the page seems to be a watering hole for all the "patriot" types (EDL, EVF, BNP, Infidels and the more rabid general Little Englanders).


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 25, 2012)

That's totally readable on my tablet...


----------



## keybored (Nov 25, 2012)

"Miniaturisation of devices not without drawbacks" shocker.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 25, 2012)

Read All Abaht It! Washout In Wandsworth! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/11/25/double-washout-at-wandsworth/


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 25, 2012)

Shows how little the vast majority of them actually 'think' - she should be a real catch 22 for them - Muslim but against the extremism of the taliban.

They mostly conform to what they claim not to be - ie racist

Hardly any debate just nice little one liners that conform to daily Heil headlines and require no thinking on their part at all.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> That's totally readable on my tablet...


Reads perfectly fine on this iPad.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 25, 2012)

typical! i bet she got herself shot so she could come over here stealing our jobs ... wankers! how can anyone not feel for that young lass?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 25, 2012)

Well well, they have started putting their own regional organisers on Redwatch

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/929-edl-out-one-of-their-own-to-redwatch


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 25, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Reads perfectly fine on this iPad.



This is an iPad as well (2) and its illegible.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 25, 2012)

I can read it when I zoom in on the image, but SPOILER it's basically just a few hundred comments by racists.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 25, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Reads perfectly fine on this iPad.


 
Still reads like a load of racist shite on this clanky old PC


----------



## SpineyNorman (Nov 25, 2012)

I think what is needed is for someone with better musical skills than me to do a free Tommy Robinson pisstake version of this:


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 25, 2012)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Still reads like a load of racist shite on this clanky old PC


Well clearly that's a prime example of PC gorn mad.


----------



## framed (Nov 25, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> That's totally readable on my tablet...


 
You're just showing off now...


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 25, 2012)

framed said:


> You're just showing off now...



I really need to rein that sarcasm in, huh?


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 25, 2012)

DaveCinzano said:


> Well clearly that's a prime example of PC gorn mad.



This joke would work on the Mark Kennedy/Stone thread too.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 28, 2012)

not looking good for tommy! 
EDL leader Tommy Robinson aka Stephen Lennon has today been charged by Bedfordshire Police for fraud.
Bedfordshire police released the following statement:

*Fraud Charges*

Bedfordshire Police, on behalf of the Crown Prosecution Service, have charged the following people in connection with a fraud investigation.
Stephen LENNON, age 30 - HMP Wandsworth, was charged with:

3 x Conspiracy to commit Fraud by False Representation in relation to a Mortgage Application – Contrary to S1 Fraud Act 2006
All the above people will appear before St Albans Magistrates Court on the afternoon of Friday 7th December 2012.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2012)

Fuck yeah


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 28, 2012)

Has he been remanded over chrimbo?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2012)

He's on remand till Jan 13th for Passport Fraud, this has been hanging over him for 3 years or more, he's up with his brother in law and a few others for this.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 28, 2012)

No holidays in the sunbed for Yayo Yaxo


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 28, 2012)

Perhaps, at last time to end this thread?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2012)

Nope,

we have CXF, NWI,NEI, The English Golden Dawn, EVF, MFI and the PFJ left.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2012)

Bob, do you know how desperate that sounds?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2012)

I thought it sounded Joke-ish with the added MFI and PFJ, but it's just letters on a screen.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 28, 2012)

Awww we didn't even get to EDL Watch pt 2


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 28, 2012)

latest 'malatesta'
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/11/28/cest-la-mortgage/


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2012)

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/local/edl-leader-charged-with-mortgage-fraud-1-4532210


Published on *Wednesday 28 November 2012 11:24*



> English Defence League leader Stephen Lennon has been charged with mortgage fraud, Bedfordshire Police say.
> 
> He was among six people to be charged following a fraud investigation by the force.
> Mr Lennon, 30, also known as Tommy Robinson, is currently on remand in Wandsworth Prison for a separate, unrelated offence.
> ...


 

Anyone know what sort of sentance this can carry? with the passport fraud on top he could be away for a long time.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2012)

Just read it's 5 years.

Aslo alegedly the 6 where paying off mortgages on a few houses with drug money, and it was a money laundering thing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 28, 2012)

tariffs for mortgage fraud:
Value of Fraud: Significant but less than £17,500 
Guidelines After Contested Trial: Very short custodial to 21 months
Value of Fraud: £17,500 to £100,000 
Guidelines After Contested Trial: 2 - 3 years
Value of Fraud: £100,000 to £250,000 
Guidelines After Contested Trial: 3 - 4 years
Value of Fraud: £250,000 to £1 million 
Guidelines After Contested Trial: 5 - 9 years
Value of Fraud: £1 million or more 
Guidelines After Contested Trial: 10 years or more


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 28, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Just read it's 5 years.
> 
> Aslo alegedly the 6 where paying off mortgages on a few houses with drug money, and it was a money laundering thing.


 
any links on that bob? if its laundering and/or drugs, thats bye bye mr tommy for a wee while!


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> any links on that bob? if its laundering and/or drugs, thats bye bye mr tommy for a wee while!


 
Can't link to it sorry  only aledged as stated,.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 28, 2012)

Alleged by whom?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 28, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Alleged by whom?


 
Some dude on the internet....


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 29, 2012)

Probably Sally Bercow on Twitter........... allegedly


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 29, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Just read it's 5 years.
> 
> Aslo alegedly the 6 where paying off mortgages on a few houses with drug money, and it was a money laundering thing.


 
If it was drugs money then presumably that would come under POCA not just mortgage fraud


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 29, 2012)

*Stephen Vowles,* 24, of Heron Drive, Luton, with two counts of conspiracy to commit fraud by false representation in relation to a mortgage application, two counts of false accounting,* possession of cocaine with intent to supply, being concerned in the supply of class A drugs to another, and money laundering:*

^ This is his wife's brother, it may be that he was named on the mortgages and they deposits used where from the profits of this trade.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 29, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Has he been remanded over chrimbo?


 
he is remanded over xmas until january for the initial stages of the case but will probably be kept in until may (?) when the trial starts proper according to EDL. i dunno what the legal mambo jimbo stuff is, commital or sumat? anyways, he will ask for bail again in jan, but as he is still deemed a flight risk and now has the fraud allegations against him it is doubtful tommy will be out for a wee while.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 29, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Some dude on the internet....


 
can i quote you on that bob?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 29, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> mambo jimbo stuff


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 29, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> can i quote you on that bob?


 
Tell you what, why not quote me 

"I think Steven used the drug money to pay deposits on the mortgages."


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2012)

Is that fraud then?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 29, 2012)

> _*A police spokesman said he had been charged with three counts of conspiracy to commit fraud by false representation in relation to a mortgage application.*_


 

I'm not a legal boffin and that but i would assume that trying to use drug money is maybe false representation as it's not obtained through the normal way people obtain money or something?


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 29, 2012)

I thought the fraud was misrepresenting how the mortgage was to be funded when applying for it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 29, 2012)

Beaten to it by bob.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 29, 2012)

falsification of claims along with a myriad of dodgy shit!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 29, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


>


mighty boosh i must confess! the santana spoof 1!


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 29, 2012)

Fantastic new article on Steven in Vice today, can't link as in work read it on my phone.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Nov 29, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Fantastic new article on Steven in Vice today, can't link as in work read it on my phone.


 
all here http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/tommy-robinson-edl-laurie-penny-interview


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 29, 2012)

Argues like a Toddler


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2012)

But she's the voice of a generation bob!


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 29, 2012)

yeah


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 29, 2012)

'He’s known for besting television interviewers.'
when was that then? utter pish!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 29, 2012)

and this is him in a nutshell: out for whatever he can take
He orders the most expensive steak on the menu, with an enormous plate of cheesy potato skins, and chuckles that this is why he likes to meet left-wing journalists: so he can have dinner on their dollar.
Wanker.


----------



## co-op (Nov 29, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Fantastic new article on Steven in Vice today, can't link as in work read it on my phone.


 
There was one thing about that LP interview that did catch my eye though, all Steven's twitchiness and paranoia - that certainly fits with having plenty of charlie around. Also with dealing it.

Now that I think about it, the whole EDL manifesto is a bit like a written version of coke bugs.

"Everywhere! They're everywhere! Horrible, malign after me!"


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2012)

I doubt there's anything like that in Laura's circle.


----------



## co-op (Nov 29, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I doubt there's anything like that in Laura's circle.


 
Maybe why she didn't pick up on it.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 29, 2012)

I can't even look at food after a load of Gak let alone eat a huge steak and a side order of loaded skins!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 29, 2012)

should have stung vice for a few pints while he was there


----------



## connollyist (Nov 29, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> should have stung vice for a few pints while he was there


Probably did. What a pathetic cunt he is... vice is far from perfect, but sometimes like with the celtic/ serco's shame fc film they do get it right, even if I get the impression most involved in there journalism are nihilistic, hipster, wankers?


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 29, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> and this is him in a nutshell: out for whatever he can take
> He orders the most expensive steak on the menu, with an enormous plate of cheesy potato skins, and chuckles that this is why he likes to meet left-wing journalists: so he can have dinner on their dollar.
> Wanker.


 
I got four gin and tonics and a Chinese out of a Daily Telegraph journalist when I was interviewed about the Harrington Out campaign  and I chuckled why  liked journalists who wrote for right wing Tory papers, wouldn't knock it personally.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 29, 2012)

connollyist said:


> Probably did. What a pathetic cunt he is... vice is far from perfect, but sometimes like with the celtic/ serco's shame fc film they do get it right, even if I get the impression most involved in there journalism are nihilistic, hipsters?


 
the term ex student is the one you are looking for


----------



## connollyist (Nov 30, 2012)

knew one of their photographers for a while, but not really kept in contact. Met a few of their writers while causing havoc around east end squats near brick lane in the past... might of given one of there lot a few well deserved slaps cos he was a bit of a cunt perhaps...? The snapper was alright, bit of a wreck head, but the others I didn't have any time for?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I got four gin and tonics and a Chinese out of a Daily Telegraph journalist when I was interviewed about the Harrington Out campaign and I chuckled why liked journalists who wrote for right wing Tory papers, wouldn't knock it personally.


 
must confess to getting a morroccan diner and wine out of Channel 4 and a bucket of ale out the telegraph as well! am a meeja hor!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> the term ex student is the one you are looking for


 
dont knock ex students feller! i believe you were 'recently seen' drinking with 3!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

> *EDLNewsXtra* ‏@*EDLNewsXtra*
> @*ActionDirecte7* You know, I remember the good old days when you guys lived in decommissioned ambulances off A303 giving each other TB...


 
Just thought i'd put this here coz I can't see anywhere else for it to go, and this thread is pretty much the odd sock drawer of miscellany relating to the EDL. One more quote from twitter can't hurt.

I was getting progressively more sick of EDL News Xtra's style for a while now, online antifascist spellchecker, but this is pretty nasty. I confess I like goading anarchists on twitter too, sad act that I am, but this is indefensible imo


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> must confess to getting a morroccan diner and wine out of Channel 4 and a bucket of ale out the telegraph as well! am a meeja hor!


 
lol I got someone from Panorama to pay for a night's worth of bevvying in the Kings Arms in Salford once. You could make a good living ripping off these journo's if you know what you're doing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2012)

yry just as bad as tommy delroy! those poor journos! as if Levison wasnt enough, they have freeloaders like you to deal with. poor, poor news people.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yry just as bad as tommy delroy! those poor journos! as if Levison wasnt enough, they have freeloaders like you to deal with. poor, poor news people.


 
Mate Lennon's lack of ambition is startling. If Laurie Penny offered to buy me dinner for an interview I'd be down the Savoy ordering as much veal and foie gras as I could.

I wouldnt' eat it. I'd just leave on the table.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> must confess to getting a morroccan diner and wine out of Channel 4 and a bucket of ale out the telegraph as well! am a meeja hor!


skank, skank, skank, skank, skank


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 30, 2012)

29 votes yeah?


----------



## cantsin (Nov 30, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Just thought i'd put this here coz I can't see anywhere else for it to go, and this thread is pretty much the odd sock drawer of miscellany relating to the EDL. One more quote from twitter can't hurt.
> 
> I was getting progressively more sick of EDL News Xtra's style for a while now, online antifascist spellchecker, but this is pretty nasty. I confess I like goading anarchists on twitter too, sad act that I am, but this is indefensible imo


 
yet more "thick prole" garbage from them  : 

*EDLNewsXtra* ‏@*EDLNewsXtra*
Fortunately, this won't effect families who have no intention of teaching their children to read, anyway... #*EDL* http://twitpic.com/bhm39d 

 *View photo*
+ the usual old liberal stinker : 


*EDLNewsXtra* ‏@*EDLNewsXtra*
@*ActionDirecte7* @*jewvenileyouth* I have no time for extremists from either the left or the right. Most people don't, as you may have gathered


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

They've been getting worse for this kind of shit. And I'm not generally too fussy about taking the piss out of EDL'ers.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 30, 2012)

EDL News Extra watch.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> They've been getting worse for this kind of shit. And I'm not generally too fussy about taking the piss out of EDL'ers.


It's always been there - as it has been _on this thread_, and right from the start. Why you are only starting to notice it now (and still not on here) i don't know.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 30, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> They've been getting worse for this kind of shit. And I'm not generally too fussy about taking the piss out of EDL'ers.


They need sorting out. Class hatred. Shows the type of scum who runs that website/twatter feed.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's always been there - as it has been _on this thread_, and right from the start. Why you are only starting to notice it now (and still not on here) i don't know.


 
Probably because deep down I share the middle-class condescenion that EDL News more openly indulges in, and what little effort I make here at this late stage to criticise them for it is nothing more than a frantic rearguard action to compensate for me being _even worse than them_

Dammit, rumbled again.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Probably because deep down I share the middle-class condescenion that EDL News more openly indulges in, and what little effort I make here at this late stage to criticise them for it is nothing more than a frantic rearguard action to compensate for me being _even worse than them_
> 
> Dammit, rumbled again.


Remarkably frank of you. I think in that spirit you should go back and criticise taffboy's _satire _and then tell everyone who pointed out its flaws that they were right all along.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Remarkably frank of you. I think in that spirit you should go back and criticise taffboy's _satire _and then tell everyone who pointed out its flaws that they were right all along.


I don't understand what your problem is with Delroy he has not said anything remotely similar to that taffboy wanker.


----------



## JimW (Nov 30, 2012)

cantsin said:


> yet more "thick prole" garbage from them :
> 
> *EDLNewsXtra* ‏@*EDLNewsXtra*
> Fortunately, this won't effect families who have no intention of teaching their children to read, anyway... #*EDL* http://twitpic.com/bhm39d
> ...


And make themselves look double cunts by mixing up effect/affect while having a poke at other people's reading


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

manny-p said:


> I don't understand what your problem is with Delroy he has not said anything remotely similar to that taffboy wanker.


And i didn't say that he had - he said/suggested that i had, in a brilliantly over-defensive reaction. I said that this thread is full of that same sort of shit that he's moaning about appearing elsewhere and the at the EDL extra thing had been since the start as well. Or did i say something else?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

JimW said:


> And make themselves look double cunts by mixing up effect/affect while having a poke at other people's reading


That stuff is just an extension of the LUAF (via searchlight) approach of anti-extremism (i.e lib-demism) with a rhetorical coating of apoliticism. Internet anti-fascism has often been shot through with this nonsense. These people still think that the far-right are skinheads with swastikas on their foreheads.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Remarkably frank of you. I think in that spirit you should go back and criticise taffboy's _satire _and then tell everyone who pointed out its flaws that they were right all along.


 
I'm nothing if not sincere. And I'll happily do that - After you've gone through all the times on the Laurie Penny stalker thread that people [EDITED out at last minute in spirit of mutually friendlyness]


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> And i didn't say that he had - he said/suggested that i had, in a brilliantly over-defensive reaction.


 
Did I? When?

I smoke a lot of weed my memory isn't great...


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I'm nothing if not sincere. And I'll happily do that - After you've gone through all the times on the Laurie Penny stalker thread that people [EDITED out at last minute in spirit of mutually friendlyness]


Hey the resistance of the victim is no crime!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Did I? When?
> 
> I smoke a lot of weed my memory isn't great...


In, as i said in the very next line, your overly-defensive reaction. And this is now about as boring as anything EDL related.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> And i didn't say that he had - he said/suggested that i had, in a brilliantly over-defensive reaction. I said that this thread is full of that same sort of shit that he's moaning about appearing elsewhere and the at the EDL extra thing had been since the start as well. Or did i say something else?


Ah sorry, I got confused.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It's always been there - as it has been _on this thread_, and right from the start. Why you are only starting to notice it now (and still not on here) i don't know.


 
I was very much dismayed at the general condemnation of Tommy Robinsons choice of lunch, he obviously won't be in the My Table section in the Guardian Food Monthly


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

manny-p said:


> I don't understand what your problem is with Delroy


 
Neither do I but lets not kill the mystery off at such an early stage


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 30, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Did I? When?
> 
> I smoke a lot of weed my memory isn't great...


 
That's the trouble with cannabis


----------



## JimW (Nov 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I was very much dismayed at the general condemnation of Tommy Robinsons choice of lunch, he obviously won't be in the My Table section in the Guardian Food Monthly


Couldn't bring myself to wade through Penny's horrible prose but the quoted bits were bizarre - "man eats food shocker"?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> In, as i said in the very next line, your overly-defensive reaction. And this is now about as boring as anything EDL related.


 
That wasn't meant to be defensive! What's wrong with a little bit of self-deprication now and then?

God you must be a right laugh in real life.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 30, 2012)

JimW said:


> Couldn't bring myself to wade through Penny's horrible prose but the quoted bits were bizarre - "man eats food shocker"?


She is a terrible journalist. I hope she loses her job and some other priviledged cunt takes it.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I was very much dismayed at the general condemnation of Tommy Robinsons choice of lunch, he obviously won't be in the My Table section in the Guardian Food Monthly


I expect there'll be a follow up piece on his/their appalling choice of clothes next week - something along the lines of her activist fashion catwalk thing she did (which i can't find now).


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 30, 2012)

Stick with the Gak


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 30, 2012)

JimW said:


> Couldn't bring myself to wade through Penny's horrible prose but the quoted bits were bizarre - "man eats food shocker"?


 
Can't wait for her critique of Man versus Food and the onward munch of patriarchy


----------



## JimW (Nov 30, 2012)

manny-p said:


> She is a terrible journalist. I hope she loses her job and some other priviledged cunt takes it.


We can't hope for much better, but maybe someone less likely to pop up on three continents as the self-appointed 'voice of yoof' would be a bit less of a sickener.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 30, 2012)

JimW said:


> We can't hope for much better, but maybe someone less likely to pop up on three continents as the self-appointed 'voice of yoof' would be a bit less of a sickener.


I wish her harm and bad things.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 30, 2012)

JimW said:


> We can't hope for much better, but maybe someone less likely to pop up on three continents as the self-appointed 'voice of yoof' would be a bit less of a sickener.


 
Jonny Friendly has nearly completed the Work Programme


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> That wasn't meant to be defensive! What's wrong with a little bit of self-deprication now and then?
> 
> God you must be a right laugh in real life.


There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip delroy, many a slip.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip delroy, many a slip.


I don't understand.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

Got it: Penny Red's fashion tips pt.1: how to look cool at a protest.


----------



## cesare (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip delboy, many a slip.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2012)

JimW said:


> Couldn't bring myself to wade through Penny's horrible prose but the quoted bits were bizarre - "man eats food shocker"?


 
jim dont bother! even she wont quote him cos hes so boring. which strikes me as she was asking the wrong questions. he is a spiv!


----------



## JimW (Nov 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> jim dont bother! even she wont quote him cos hes so boring. which strikes me as she was asking the wrong questions. he is a spiv!


Which leaves you thinking, if you're not going to engage with his views what else have you got but sneering at his choice of eats and what he wears, he's not "our sort" of person? All her guff about her big inner No Platform debate and the whole exercise is transparently just her careerism not even critical engagement (Isay having just admitted to not having read the whole thing).


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2012)

exactly. ask him to explain his org's manifesto, ask him about what the endgame is, the way he has dealt with fascists in the EDL, his political ideas!!!! fux sake! i dont care what he eats. altho i believe porridge is on the menu today (ho! ho!).


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

For those who (clearly) haven't seen it, there's some criticial interrogation of that unbelievably crap but very revealing article by Laura/EDL on the last few pages of this thread.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> exactly. ask him to explain his org's manifesto, ask him about what the endgame is, the way he has dealt with fascists in the EDL, his political ideas!!!! fux sake! i dont care what he eats. altho i believe porridge is on the menu today (ho! ho!).


It doesn't matter if he answered them questions in full in the most interesting way, she had decided she was not going to include what he said full stop (which she actually failed to do anyway). She was going to no platform him -_ by interviewing him_


----------



## JimW (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> She was going to no platform him -_ by interviewing him_


She's operating at a level of the dialectic way above our pay grade.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

I liked the way that tommy lulled her into revealing what knob she is through encouraging her ego to take over. Master-stroke on his part.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2012)

journalists tend to go after the story the editor has asked them to get (or in this case what she had decided it would be).a reporter is someone who does the 'cat sat in tree' story. lifestyle opinionator is more like it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I liked the way that tommy lulled her into revealing what knob she is through encouraging her ego to take over. Master-stroke on his part.


evil genius that he is!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> journalists tend to go after the story the editor has asked them to get (or in this case what she had decided it would be).a reporter is someone who does the 'cat sat in tree' story. lifestyle opinionator is more like it.


 Arrogant posh twat who demanded this interview then decided on using it to display her political purity via some no-platform bollocks is more accurate i think.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 30, 2012)

I liked the argued like a toddler bit.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 30, 2012)

good but hardly succinct butchers! we live in the era of the soundbite after all!


----------



## weepiper (Nov 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Got it: Penny Red's fashion tips pt.1: how to look cool at a protest.


 
that is quite, quite special



> your hoody is a statement of a sort of class fluidity which doesn’t actually exist in the UK, but is still a really lovely idea, particularly if you’re a Sloane down to play howling mob for the day.


----------



## framed (Nov 30, 2012)

weepiper said:


> that is quite, quite special


 

I want to smother her with the contents of her wardrobe after reading that...


----------



## weepiper (Nov 30, 2012)

_a really lovely idea._


----------



## framed (Nov 30, 2012)

weepiper said:


> _a really lovely idea._


 
But is it zeitgeisty enough to be edgy?


----------



## manny-p (Dec 1, 2012)

framed said:


> I want to smother her with the contents of her wardrobe after reading that...


you naughty boy!


----------



## framed (Dec 1, 2012)

manny-p said:


> you naughty boy!


 

That does read back a bit 'iffy' now that I look at it again.


----------



## manny-p (Dec 1, 2012)

framed said:


> That does read back a bit 'iffy' now that I look at it again.


It's ok mate. I want to do worse to her  (not sexual)


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 1, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Got it: Penny Red's fashion tips pt.1: how to look cool at a protest.


 
Best quote from that?

"Look, the government is getting bloody frightened of us."

Oh aye?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 2, 2012)

manny-p said:


> It's ok mate. I want to do worse to her  (not sexual)


 
That reads far dodgier to be fair


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 2, 2012)

latest 'Malatesta' 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/edl-death-knell/


----------



## audiotech (Dec 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> It doesn't matter if he answered them questions in full in the most interesting way, she had decided she was not going to include what he said full stop (which she actually failed to do anyway).....


 
Eh? From the Vice piece, on how this nouveau riche wannabe wishes England to be.




> He prevaricates. "One without Sharia law," he says, sounding unsure. "One without bombs going off every month. One without paedophiles running round under the banner of religion, raping kids." Lennon is unable to describe any positive features of the country in which he lives – instead he conjures up a fantasy nightmare society run by feral kids, immigrants and welfare scroungers just around the corner and encourages others to lash out....


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 2, 2012)

What do you imagine that i actually said in that post you've quoted?

I pointed out that she had said she "will not reproduce any of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon’s actual opinions" and tried to justify this on a No Platform basis, then went ahead and reproduced plenty of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon’s actual opinions - quotes such as the ones you included in your above post.


----------



## audiotech (Dec 2, 2012)

A tad long-winded.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 2, 2012)

Only because you managed to totally misread the short version. I'm trying to help you here.


----------



## audiotech (Dec 2, 2012)

Of course you are.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 2, 2012)

You pretty clearly need it, so yes helping you to understand what you are replying to, lest you make yourself appear daft, is what I'm doing.


----------



## audiotech (Dec 2, 2012)

Cox's Pippin?


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 2, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Eh? From the Vice piece, on how this nouveau riche wannabe wishes England to be.


 
In what way does that epitomise  noveau rich wannabe's


----------



## audiotech (Dec 2, 2012)

It's the tanning studios he once owned, property's he now owns, the BMW, and designer shades he wears. He may end up in the tory party.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 2, 2012)

audiotech said:


> It's the tanning studios he once owned, property's he now owns, the BMW, and designer shades he wears. He may end up in the tory party.


 
His lifestyle is nothing to do with his politics at all though. if someone with that lifestyle was in a left wing group would you object?


----------



## audiotech (Dec 2, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> His lifestyle is nothing to do with his politics at all though. if someone with that lifestyle was in a left wing group would you object?


 
Debatable whether the personal is political (see Penny wotsit thread). Would I object? Probably.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 2, 2012)

But if they owned a natural aromatherapists ,drove a Volkswagen Scirocco and wore Dr Scholls they would fine.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 2, 2012)

it is more his 'working class credentials' than anything else steps. how many folk do you know drive a BMW? most of my mates have even got a car!


----------



## audiotech (Dec 2, 2012)

Avoiding the allegations made against the EDL leader and speaking of corruption generally, along with tax avoidance, where it's estimated that $21 to $32 trillion is held off-shore in tax evasion and huge amounts of this dosh moving through the City of London. Then there's the buying up of property in the city. Political? It should be.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 2, 2012)

he is a spiv. he wears spivs clothes and drives a spiv car. he is of the 'del-boy working class made good and they're gonna make sure you know it' ilk.


----------



## audiotech (Dec 2, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> But if they owned a natural aromatherapists ,drove a Volkswagen Scirocco and wore Dr Scholls they would fine.


 
I'll only make an exception to someone who has a cheap bottle of Ylang Ylang, who drives a Corsa with the wheels falling off and wears Lug boots.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 2, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> But if they owned a natural aromatherapists ,drove a Volkswagen Scirocco and wore Dr Scholls they would fine.


 
What about if they own a kitchen fitters business, drive a white van, and wear converse?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 2, 2012)

What he wears, what he drives, what he eats, is irrelevant. The bloke's still a twat.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 5, 2012)

March for England are planning another St George's Day thingy in Brighton on 21 April next year: http://brightonantifascists.wordpre...-the-march-for-england-2013-from-rough-music/

Maybe they can continue the success of the EDL and get about 50 to turn up...


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

edl had 2-300 for a local unofficial demo here in the frozen north at the weekend. no opposition at all.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 5, 2012)

krink, they also had a wandsworth demo with 50 people, no one at bedford and 6 at southend. i think even the UAF cant be arsed anymore as they are going nowhere. their leaders have disappeared. also CXF implode, infidels disappeared. EVF a joke.


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

they can still be a nuisance up here i think. the infidels/edl in yorkshire & north east/sdl are working together for demos and can get anything from 100 to 300 which is more than the left can get for local demos. edl are meant to be having a national in the north east in new year. to be honest, it's all a bit dull. this is what happens up here - the two sides stand opposite each other and shout abuse neither can hear and whoever waits the longest before going to the pub wins. i'm bored with it all.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 5, 2012)

krink said:


> they can still be a nuisance up here i think. the infidels/edl in yorkshire & north east/sdl are working together for demos and can get anything from 100 to 300 which is more than the left can get for local demos. edl are meant to be having a national in the north east in new year. to be honest, it's all a bit dull. this is what happens up here - the two sides stand opposite each other and shout abuse neither can hear and whoever waits the longest before going to the pub wins. i'm bored with it all.


 
I'm inclined to think the best thing to do in the North East is ignore them so they turn on each other now.


----------



## krink (Dec 5, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I'm inclined to think the best thing to do in the North East is ignore them so they turn on each other now.


 
do you mean the left?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 5, 2012)

krink said:


> do you mean the left?


 
both of them


----------



## bignose1 (Dec 8, 2012)

Some Bradford EDL guy awaiting jail called Evans......whoops I mean Docherty!


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 9, 2012)

interesting pieces!
http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress...ng/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
and
http://3cafa.wordpress.com/2012/11/...-hmp-wandsworth-attracts-around-60-pissheads/


----------



## krink (Dec 9, 2012)

nf had a demo in sunderland yesterday, about 8 of them, no opposition as far as i know.


----------



## connollyist (Dec 9, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> interesting pieces!
> http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress...ng/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
> and
> http://3cafa.wordpress.com/2012/11/...-hmp-wandsworth-attracts-around-60-pissheads/


 
Both pretty amusing... particularly yer response to there allegation we are all paedos... coming from an organisation that seems to have nearly as many arrests for child abuse as it does for causing afray!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 13, 2012)

http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1840-latest-update-from-tommy

blah blah (scribble) blah


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 13, 2012)

whining bastard.dear mr tommy, you're in jail for christmas because you are a career criminal and a spiv. and as for working class? ownbbusiness, employed 6, bungalow. what a phoney.


----------



## albionism (Dec 13, 2012)

The average EDLer must be breathing a sigh of relief now it's all over! They
no longer have to pretend to tolerate, nay, be the champions and defenders
of gays and Jews. They can go back to being their gay-bashing, Jew-hating selves.


----------



## Serotonin (Dec 13, 2012)

Not sure what to make of this
https://twitter.com/IvorNakerov

This guy appears to be leaking what appear to be social services or police files on the Downes family. Karen Downes has always maintained her daughter was raped and murdered by Muslims at a local take away and has made a lot for the EDL from it, but if these documents are true theres a whole other story.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 14, 2012)

These documents have been in the hands of Antifa circles for a few months now. No idea who has leaked them or their reasons to do it now.

They have also been in the hands of the Casuals and the EDL for a few months as well

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...s-casuals-united-in-cover-up-according-to-edl


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 14, 2012)

dunno what to make of the whole downes case. the mum is BNP and not above making daft remarks on facebook. the full story is yet to come out. there was also rumours about a dodgy bloke living with them at the time of herdisappearance but havent got much info. anyway ... 
https://twitpic.com/bletev/full


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 14, 2012)

what the crivvens!
https://twitpic.com/blerov
and this most damning
https://twitpic.com/blesaf


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 14, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1840-latest-update-from-tommy
> 
> blah blah (scribble) blah


"God Bless" - I wonder when the last time he went to church was?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 14, 2012)

He'll be annoying people on Sundays before you know it!


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 14, 2012)

Serotonin said:


> Not sure what to make of this
> https://twitter.com/IvorNakerov
> 
> This guy appears to be leaking what appear to be social services or police files on the Downes family. Karen Downes has always maintained her daughter was raped and murdered by Muslims at a local take away and has made a lot for the EDL from it, but if these documents are true theres a whole other story.


 
the docs allege concerns over the dad's behaviour, his alleged hanging about with known sex offenders, charlene's alleged abuse of various kinds, the unreliable evidence concerning the accused, the basing of the prosecution on unreliable recordings and the reliability of the single witness who claimed that the accused admitted killing her - although it is only his word. its all well dodgy as is the leaking of the docs.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 14, 2012)

Had a chat with British Freedom who were demonstrating support for kith and kin in Ulster over the Union Jack outside Stockport Town Hall today.


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Had a chat with British Freedom who were demonstrating support for kith and kin in Ulster over the Union Jack outside Stockport Town Hall today.


 
And... what did they say?


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 14, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> And... what did they say?


 
'no surrender'?


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 14, 2012)

Red Storm said:


> And... what did they say?


 
Them:Support the flag in Ulster, people have died for it. Not democratic. What did I think?

_Me: I am English and not really bothered about the Irish etc etc_

had a good fifteen minutes conversation with him all very polite, I asked him to explain what he meant by civic nationalism. Three kids aged about 18-20 , someones girlfriend , a bloke with a biker jacket mumbling and their main man who used to be in UKIP.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 14, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Three kids aged about 18-20 , someones girlfriend , a bloke with a biker jacket mumbling and their main man who used to be in UKIP.


 
Swap UKIP for Labour Briefing and the flag issue for Syria and it could have been the SWP, swap UKIP for SWP and the flag for some prisoner in Greece and it could have been an anarchist protest.


----------



## Corax (Dec 14, 2012)

Fuckin nora.

Any indication anywhere to their veracity? If they're fakes, then to my amateur eyes they're extremely sophisticated ones in terms of language, format and content.

Reading them, the main concern has to be for the safety of other children still in that social catchment. I know I'm making judgements based on unsubstantiated content, but it sounds like an outright abuse network. The father, the mother, the various visiting friends, there's a catalogue of people implicated. The way one of those leaks reads, it wouldn't be beyond the bounds that the 'exonerated' accused were part of that abuse as well (although separate, iyswim), which starts adding up to a helluva lot of people who shouldn't be walking around at liberty right now. Have these hit the press at all yet?

What a fucking horrific life some kids grow up in. And to.


----------



## josef1878 (Dec 14, 2012)

Sounds like Fred and Rose West to me.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 14, 2012)

so many questions: where have the documents come from? who has released them? why did the causals end up with them? is it an attempt to discredit the downes family? and if so, by whom? the whole thing reeks, from the poor girls disappearance to the court cases and now this. the documents appear to be framing an argument that the family were complicit in abuse of various kinds. it seems they have been deliberately leaked to discredit the family. if this proves to be true then the EDL/BNP will be made to look like supporting 'pedos' etc. they also document the unreliability of the main prosecution witness and the fact that the police based their case on him.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 14, 2012)

Somehow I suspect the only true bit we will ever be sure of is that some poor lass lived and died horribly and that at least some of the people involved will not be brought to justice as they should be.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 15, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Swap UKIP for Labour Briefing and the flag issue for Syria and it could have been the SWP, swap UKIP for SWP and the flag for some prisoner in Greece and it could have been an anarchist protest.


 


Spanky Longhorn said:


> Swap UKIP for Labour Briefing and the flag issue for Syria and it could have been the SWP, swap UKIP for SWP and the flag for some prisoner in Greece and it could have been an anarchist protest.


 
Its a competitive world


----------



## weepiper (Dec 15, 2012)

cunts.


----------



## framed (Dec 15, 2012)

weepiper said:


> cunts.


 
Doesn't that just sum the pricks up though?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 15, 2012)

Hiding behind the twitter account is for spineless cunts. Why not call a demo & actually come out & say that.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 15, 2012)

but what is the reason for the leaks? is it plod leaking cos they fucked up the case? do they want to discredit downes family? if so why? there is the question of how the casuals got hold of it all, why they supressed it and that if its real, it shows EDL/BNP suppoirting pedos. this is really smelly.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 15, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Somehow I suspect the only true bit we will ever be sure of is that some poor lass lived and died horribly and that at least some of the people involved will not be brought to justice as they should be.


 
plod has no evidence. their case rested on one guy saying the asian feller admitted it. no recordings substantiated it. they royally fucked up. also the body was minced. how many kebab shops have an industrial mincer out back? most meat is bought already diced or on the donner thing.


----------



## framed (Dec 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> but what is the reason for the leaks? is it plod leaking cos they fucked up the case? do they want to discredit downes family? if so why? there is the question of how the casuals got hold of it all, why they supressed it and that if its real, it shows EDL/BNP suppoirting pedos. this is really smelly.


 
I think those are the pertinent points Mal. Who gains from the leaks? If the documents are genuine then it means the fash and all sorts of fucking weirdos will be at each other's throats. I can't see past the cops being at the centre of the leaks meself. Either that or they may have been leaked via one of the defendants' legal teams. I can't see how anyone not directly involved in the case would get access without help from a cop, a solicitor, or maybe a social worker that was involved in the care of the children in the case... very smelly indeed.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 15, 2012)

> defendants' legal teams.


 
Can't see beyond that myself. (Also, the stuff the non-existent and very scruffy  'casuals' were supposed to have was different stuff i think).


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 15, 2012)

there are huge fuck ups with plod, social services, etc. if the docs are genuine then those 2 guys were being framed. to cover up downes snr goings on? someone posted 'confirmation' that they are gen and they were leaked ' the documents were liberated and have already gotten people into trouble apparently as the documents are legitimate.' 
veracity is a problem here. 
who benefits is the question?


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 15, 2012)

this is some story. casuals havent said where they got it from. but why wd someone pass these incendiary docs to a bunch of scruffy drunks? who benefits? is it smearing cops for fucknig it up or smearing downes as the dad is alleged to be dodgy but plod dont have anything on him.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 15, 2012)

Same post about 5 times in a row there mal.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 15, 2012)

its really bugging me! i dont know why. enough already then!


----------



## laptop (Dec 15, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> the dad is alleged to be dodgy but plod dont have anything on him.


 
If the docs are genuine, plod had shedloads on dad but failed to work it up into something actionable.

And if they're fake, they're genius... you'd have to _be_ plod to write like that, wouldn't you?


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 16, 2012)

if plod leaked em it is to discredit the dad without having much of a case.
if defence did its to discredit plod and to cast doubt on the family.


----------



## Red Storm (Dec 16, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> if plod leaked em it is to discredit the dad without having much of a case.
> if defence did its to discredit plod and to cast doubt on the family.


 
What would the police have to gain? 

The case never really had a high profile and the EDL are not newsworthy, why would anyone bother?


----------



## laptop (Dec 16, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> if plod leaked em it is to discredit the dad without having much of a case.
> if defence did its to discredit plod and to cast doubt on the family.


 
Looking at the document on how plod fucked up the audio evidence - with a strong suggestion that there was an attempt to falsify it - I'm even wondering whether the prosecution might have leaked, out of pique.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 16, 2012)

plod could have leaked em to smear dad downes. prosecution cd have cos of pique as laptop says. defence cd have done it to show that the case rested on 1 unreliable witnesses statement which cd not be backed up by the recordings. who is the one who loses most, the poor wee lassie. shame.


----------



## cemertyone (Dec 17, 2012)

20 EDL members in Sanday Row today..........


----------



## cemertyone (Dec 17, 2012)

cemertyone said:


> 20 EDL members in Sanday Row today..........


 
they where at the "one stop ulster shop"......what do you expect..i presume there was ameeting of minds going on


----------



## Fingers (Dec 17, 2012)

Whoever leaked the docs have done far more to help her cause than the far right and the Downes family have done.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2012)

How? Serious answer required.


----------



## Serotonin (Dec 17, 2012)

Yeah I'm trying to puzzle that statement out too.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 18, 2012)

*Tommy Robinson - Abellend*


----------



## Corax (Dec 18, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Whoever leaked the docs have done far more to help her cause than the far right and the Downes family have done.





butchersapron said:


> How? Serious answer required.





Serotonin said:


> Yeah I'm trying to puzzle that statement out too.


I read Fingers as saying that exposing Downes Snr's network of abuse, if that's what it is, may do some good and possibly prevent more victims if it leads to further scrutiny and/or arrests.


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## Fingers (Dec 18, 2012)

Yeah sorry for the late reply. What Corax said really.

If the documents are genuine, the police failed the kids, both Blackpool and West Midlands social services have failed them and the far right have used them to stir up some race hate and have a jolly old piss up by the seaside.

Now these documents are in the public domain, the two guys in the kebab house AND the Downes family may get investigated if the did give access to to their kids to nonces.

To their credit, the Casuals saw through this months ago and released two of these documents (where they got them from i do not know) to shame the EDL into distancing themselves from it. The EDL have been very quiet on the subject since and the only people who are still sucking the blood out of it are the BNP and the Nazi infidels types.

In that way, if the young girl is dead, this alleged cover up is no longer covered up and it could be her last hope of getting justice.

Personally, the best outcome to this is that the girl decided enough was enough and has run away and is now living a happy life without the fuckwits that were suppose to be looking after her, protecting her and providing a safe and secure environment for her.

That is a long shot I know.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 19, 2012)

BFP surrender http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...sh-freedom-surrender-under-a-cloud-of-secrecy


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 19, 2012)

Fingers said:


> BFP surrender http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...sh-freedom-surrender-under-a-cloud-of-secrecy


 
Nobody told Micahel.... lol


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 19, 2012)

It goes beyond farcical.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2012)

the fluffies bite the dust. one of the more ineffectual groupuscules  recently - tho so many to choose from. they never shd have sacked batty lee barnes. he is very clever!


----------



## love detective (Dec 19, 2012)

did they actually deregister themsleves, or were they just late with the annual return/RP8 form and got automatically struck off?

have been threatened with that before a couple of times with the IWCA


----------



## Fingers (Dec 19, 2012)

KKKev had his front door kicked off it's hinges this morning by plod.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 19, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Them:Support the flag in Ulster, people have died for it. Not democratic. What did I think?
> 
> _Me: I am English and not really bothered about the Irish etc etc_
> 
> had a good fifteen minutes conversation with him all very polite, I asked him to explain what he meant by civic nationalism. Three kids aged about 18-20 , someones girlfriend , a bloke with a biker jacket mumbling and their main man who used to be in UKIP.


----------



## krink (Dec 19, 2012)

love detective said:


> did they actually deregister themsleves, or were they just late with the annual return/RP8 form and got automatically struck off?
> 
> have been threatened with that before a couple of times with the IWCA


 
from some stuff i was looking at earlier it looks like the leader bloke deregistered them himself. will look for the link...


----------



## love detective (Dec 19, 2012)

sonia gable/searchlight have just posted an article saying it was because they didn't submit the form/pay the annual fee (and had a pop at matthew collins for suggesting they had voluntarily deregistered)


----------



## love detective (Dec 19, 2012)

From the electoral commission, this says they were statutorily deregistered, which means they didn't do it voluntarily


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## Fingers (Dec 19, 2012)

lolz


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 19, 2012)

weren't they there last month?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Dec 19, 2012)

Dick Bateman


----------



## Fingers (Dec 19, 2012)

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...950-edl-blow-mfe-carol-singing-nght-to-police


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> weren't they there last month?


 
yeah. pointless stab at publicity. what did they think? he wd come out and tell the EDL off? wankers!


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2012)

Fingers said:


> http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...950-edl-blow-mfe-carol-singing-nght-to-police


 
what a bunch of keckin' eejits! more 'unity' on the right then.


----------



## framed (Dec 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah. pointless stab at publicity. what did they think? he wd come out and tell the EDL off? wankers!


 
TBF, by their own standards, it's not such a bad idea for a publicity stunt, is it?

I can't see a lot of difference between what they're doing (_by the logic of their own politics_) and what lefties do when they demonstrate outside the residence of a government minister, a tax avoider, or a hated boss...

The point of *publicity* stunts is to court media *publicity*. Success or failure is judged on the amount of *publicity* recieved... there's a clue in there somewhere.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2012)

well most ministers etc are fairly anonymous and the protests are to bring about publicity. but who doesnt know about qatada. also the daily mail beat them to it anyway! been saying this for a while that these demos are 15 minutes of fame jobs by ageing hooligans to impress eejits in the pub.!


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## framed (Dec 19, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> well most ministers etc are fairly anonymous and the protests are to bring about publicity. but who doesnt know about qatada. also the daily mail beat them to it anyway! been saying this for a while that these demos are 15 minutes of fame jobs by ageing hooligans to impress eejits in the pub.!


 
Well, if you're going to use the '15 minutes of fame' criteria to judge the effectiveness of particular demonstrations, apply it across the board...

I said that if you look at it from _their_ political point of view it's not just a run-of-the-mill publicity stunt, it's a _good_ publicity stunt to demonstrate outside of the home of a suspected Islamic 'terrorist'. Doesn't mean I agree with them politically, just that I understand the logic of it and am not going to get all sneery about their 'stupidity', because it's not a stupid idea if judged from their perspective.

I remember the Saoirse campaign for Irish poitical prisoners pulling off a very good *publicity stunt* around demonstrating outside of Michael Howard's private residence some years ago - he was a govt minister at the time. I've also seen Militant in its heyday organise demos outside of witch-hunting Labour MP's homes. All in the name of *publicity* and their 15 minutes.

I don't really understand the objection to a publicity stunt purely on the basis that it was nothing more than a publicity stunt?

That _'the Daily Mail beat them to it'_ would be relevant were it simply about the far-right exposing the whereabouts of Qutada, but it wasn't. They can at least be credited with a bit of thought in trying to organise fascists singing Christmas Carols outside of his home to give it that extra flavour of _Crusaders v Islamists. _At least they are a little more ambitious than a tabloid which simply screams, _"WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE!"_


----------



## Fingers (Dec 19, 2012)

I think that usually the EDL's fifteen minutes fame usually loses it's wheels by way of a massive fuck up of one sort or another (usually before they get there - removal van fiasco),  which does not tend to happen to anti cuts/tax protesters


----------



## Fingers (Dec 19, 2012)

Bit more ambitious or a bit more stupid? there is a reason that the daily mail did not reveal his address, probably because if you start fucking with the security services, you are going to get you back door kicked clean off it's hinges.


----------



## framed (Dec 20, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Bit more ambitious or a bit more stupid? there is a reason that the daily mail did not reveal his address, probably because if you start fucking with the security services, you are going to get you back door kicked clean off it's hinges.


 
Supporters of Irish republican prisoners demonstrating outside of a govt minister's private residence seems no more or less 'stupid' and with all of the same possible scenarios of the security services to consider... so what's your point?

Fash protest = BAD, kick their hinges off... or Left protest = GOOD, leave the hinges on 

What exactly is it that makes the far-right, in particular, the 'stupid' ones and somehow more deserving of state violence?

I am genuinely interested, because I fail to see what there is to laugh at half-the-time. Okay, they have a propensity for fuck-ups, but let's face it, there's a lot of people out there waiting to fuck them up. I find laughing down our noses at them a bit silly really because, unlike the left, the ideas of the right actually have some resonance in working class communities, while the ideas of the left don't even register.

Are we laughing at them simply to reinforce our feelings of political superiority over the fash?

Is the conservative middle-class left any less sectarian, less prone to in-fighting, or any less 'stupid'


----------



## Fingers (Dec 20, 2012)

The fuck ups tend to be of the momentousness act of stupidity kind and a lot of people laugh at them. One thing the far right does not like is being laughed at and no one taking them seriously.

Are we laughing at them simply to reinforce our feelings of political superiority over the fash?

No we laugh at them because they genuinely provide us with something to laugh at.... and they hate doing that.

Blatantly messing with the work of the security forces and bragging about on Facebook it is another example of gross stupidity and if it ends with them getting their hinges blown off, so be it, I and others with have a bit of a laugh over it.

I have no times for the holier than thou fash hugging brigade.  I do not give a flying shit what class they are, they are cunts and deserve to be mocked. They are cunts whatever class they are, not because of the class they are.


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## framed (Dec 20, 2012)

Fingers said:


> The fuck ups tend to be of the momentousness act of stupidity kind and a lot of people laugh at them. One thing the far right does not like is being laughed at and no one taking them seriously.
> 
> Are we laughing at them simply to reinforce our feelings of political superiority over the fash?
> 
> ...


 

Your talent for comedy isn't apparent on this thread, so I'll wait to be persuaded that you actually have a sense of humour by which you can distinguish the funny from the unfunny.

_"Blatantly messing with the work of the security forces..." _?

Who the fcuk are you - Colonel Blimp? 

To be frank, I spend more of my time laughing at 'superiority complex' lefties, who are funnier than the fash could ever hope to be.

_"holier than thou fash hugging brigade"_ - I am hardly that, if you care to check.

_They are cunts whatever class they are, not because of the class they are._

Yes, quite. However, class_ does_ matter. If it didn't matter, the middle-class left might have some rapport within working class communities. As much as you say that it doesn't matter where the fash come from, in terms of class background, I would argue that it actually matters quite a lot where their political opponents come from, if they are ever to have any hope of beating the fascists in working class areas. Class matters, especially to the class whose support you hope to win.

Instead, 'the left' relies on ridicule of fascist 'fuck-ups' as an alternative to actually countering them politically in those communities where they are strongest. The real comedy is provided by the demand that working class people should, _'Vote Labour to keep out the Naaaaarzeeees'_.

Now that really is funny.


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## Fingers (Dec 20, 2012)

Sorry, that is not a dig at you Framed. I just think why not laugh at them when they fuck something up so disastrously.


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## Fingers (Dec 20, 2012)

"Instead, 'the left' relies on ridicule as an alternative to actually countering them politically"

Regarding the likes of the EDL/BNP, they are pretty poor at countering anything politically, espesh the EDL. We can either take the piss or hand wring.​​The EDL are anti working class, they target trade unions, anti welfare reform groups, groups like occupy and anyone who actually campaigns to make things better for their 'class'.​​Plus they are hate filled racist cunts,​​If they profess to be working class, they are class traitors of the highest form.​​So forgive me for mocking these cunts as and when I can.​


----------



## framed (Dec 20, 2012)

Fingers said:


> Sorry, that is not a dig at you Framed. I just think why not laugh at them when they fuck something up so disastrously.


 
Okay Fingers, I know what you mean... yes, of course they are class traitors, but it takes a bit more than an understanding of the slogans to counter them effectively imho.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 20, 2012)

sorry for formatting fuck up there ^


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## malatesta32 (Dec 20, 2012)

yes, i think we can say in all truth that framed is hardly hug-the fash!


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## krink (Dec 20, 2012)

i think they *should* be hugged...with hammers


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## krink (Dec 20, 2012)

by the way former northern edl leader and current north east infidels leader paul duffy being held in durham nick on firearms charges hahaha


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## malatesta32 (Dec 20, 2012)

yeah and he had been done for smack as well coupla year ago. yet another far right career criminal superstar!


----------



## elbows (Dec 20, 2012)

framed said:


> To be frank, I spend more of my time laughing at 'superiority complex' lefties, who are funnier than the fash could ever hope to be.


 
Slapstick vs satire.


----------



## krink (Dec 20, 2012)

as rumored about a month back, the edl have announced they will be doing a national demo in Newcastle in the new year sometime. this is the last area in the uk where they still have support - 200 recently for a local. so if anyone fancies a dodge up for the counter, maybe we could have a meet and a jar or three??


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## malatesta32 (Dec 21, 2012)

framed, to highlight an issue that is not being highlighted can be effective but what is the actual point of demoing outside qatada's hoose? the media know he is there, so do the public and the cops. also the EDL has been a giant vanity project for people and the egotism has been highlighted by annoyed followers of the cult. they love getting on telly.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 21, 2012)

oh, and i agree that there are elements of the left that love that kind of publicity too. yes, it shd be applied across the board.


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## FNG (Dec 22, 2012)

> but what is the actual point of demoing outside qatada's hoose? the media know he is there, so do the public and the cops.


 
 My 2 cents Firstly the fact the paparazzi are staking out qatada's house provides the EDL with an easy photo op,if qutada going shopping is deemed newsworthy the EDL turning up singing carols would.

 Secondly and more importantly it perpetrates the myth that Islamists and by extension Muslims are opposed to Christmas. If the EDL turn up cause a breach of the peace and get nicked it feeds into a wider underlying narrative of minorities wanting to Ban Christmas,ie the Winterval myth. If the EDL turn up and the demo passes off peacefully they are seen as cheeky chappies cocking a snook at the evil islamicist panto villan, from their perspective its a Win Win.


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## butchersapron (Dec 22, 2012)

By who? No ones really watching are they?


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## FNG (Dec 22, 2012)

Q1 By their potential recruitment base, and by the wider political correctness bans christmas brigade 

Q2 Publicity equals attention


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## butchersapron (Dec 22, 2012)

Q1: Their tiny and dwindling potential recruit base doesn't care one way or another - their mind is made up already as to what they think. As to scenario a) the active ones have shown no appetite for risking serious disorder and so serious sentences, leaving little chance that those outside of the group are and scenario b) who is going to be attracted by wasting  a wet Saturday where nothing happens - that noting happens at their stuff is one of the reasons behind their fall in numbers. Lose-lose to my mind.

Q2:Assumes a) they will get publicity rather than getting nowhere near and so not seen by any media and b) said media would give them attention if they did - not been much sign of the media caring about the EDL (apart from a quick star burst) and the Qatada story has enough angles without bringing them in.


----------



## FNG (Dec 22, 2012)

Q1
A] It might not take serious disorder to get the police to over-react in such circumstances, indeed from the EDLs perspective the more trivial the better.
B] There are more than a few idiots who believe singing carols is offensive to muslims,and more than a few who were up for it as their FB attests to.




> Lose-lose to my mind.


 Possibly in mine too,but not in theirs which is why i guess they planned it.

Q2 A week might be a long time in politics,but its not that long ago the EDL were getting favourable headline publicity in the Star, presumably those sympathetic hacks haven't gone away and would quite happily,given half a chance get the EDL bandwagon rolling again


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 22, 2012)

Q1:

a)They're very unlikely to get close enough for them to overeact - and even if they do and they do over-react, that still leaves the fact that the edl have shown no appetite for serious trouble and what little they have been involved in hasn't shown itself to be effective at attracting further supporters.

B) And they'll either be there or they won't be- far more likely the latter, but it won't attract new people either way. It will just publicly demonstrate a descent into pure stuntism by a handful of people as the numbers that make any other action possible are no longer there. Death roll.

Q2: The Star got burnt by their little editor/owner driven not journo driven flirtation - won't be happening again. Any non tory/lib-dem/labour stuff from that direction will more than likely prove to be UKIP related.


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## FNG (Dec 22, 2012)

cheers,as always its a pleasure talking with you.

Have you any further reading wrt Desmond/star getting burned by their EDL coverage?


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## malatesta32 (Dec 23, 2012)

the only thing i know re: dirty des, i they ran a supportive editorial then quickly backpeddled on it. a bit later they were publishing searchlight stories as penance. it was weird watching it fizzle out so drastically. no one has since come out with supporting them and ALL their press has been remarkably negative.


----------



## FNG (Dec 23, 2012)

Watching/Reading Dawn Neeson and Richard Desmond pass the potato is fascinating apparently neither the proprietor or the editor knew anything about it.
Looking at the form, previous and subsequent Newsroom rebellions such as  2006s Daily Fatwa edition,and Richard Peppiats open resignation letter haven't marked an editorial shift like EDL gate which leads me to suspect Dawn Neeson overstepped the mark and got slapped down for it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 23, 2012)

like i say the backtracking was the only thing i knew. but it seems like overstepping it is very feasible.


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## lazyhack (Dec 23, 2012)

The truth about the Daily Star is far less exciting, nothing came down from Desmond. Hence the separate editorial team in Star Sunday taking the exact opposite line and running an anti-EDL piece the same week as the Daily Star's pro-EDL splash. The paper is very short staffed and someone high up made a very poorly informed editorial decision..


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## FNG (Dec 23, 2012)

So can you shed any light on after Desmond did the round robin around various rival publications (Jewish Chronicle,Guardian,Independent) the following week disavowing knowledge of the Stars stance, did he communicate his position to those responsible?


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## malatesta32 (Dec 23, 2012)

framed said:


> TBF, by their own standards, it's not such a bad idea for a publicity stunt, is it?
> 
> I can't see a lot of difference between what they're doing (_by the logic of their own politics_) and what lefties do when they demonstrate outside the residence of a government minister, a tax avoider, or a hated boss...
> 
> ...


----------



## framed (Dec 24, 2012)

Them going ahead with the demo/sing-song is funnier!


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## FNG (Dec 24, 2012)

Especially after throwing their toys out of the pram earlier in the week


----------



## bignose1 (Dec 24, 2012)

Am I right in saying the EDL are planning a return to Manchester on March 2nd 2013??


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 24, 2012)

bignose1 said:


> Am I right in saying the EDL are planning a return to Manchester on March 2nd 2013??


 
its been leaked that they are but not confirmed by gmp


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## malatesta32 (Dec 24, 2012)

seasonal good cheer from us lot! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2012/12/24/kevins-kristmas-karol/


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 24, 2012)

British Freedom/EDL were back at Stockport Town Hall Friday with a somewhat reduced turnout of ..........one!


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## malatesta32 (Dec 24, 2012)

wow! im impressed they got even that! happy holidays urbanites!


----------



## bignose1 (Dec 24, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> British Freedom/EDL were back at Stockport Town Hall Friday with a somewhat reduced turnout of ..........one!


He mustve been reading about fat boy Websters one man Town Hall caper and wanted a rerun....


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 24, 2012)

Had elastic bands on the flag pole in case his greasy palms let it drop


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 26, 2012)

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/kev-carroll-edl-christmas-address


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## malatesta32 (Dec 28, 2012)

Accusations on stormfront: 'Same thing happened in the North West Infidels.Some complete and utter rat called Ste Latimer has efectivley split that org by playing people off each other by making pages on facebook slagging people off even his so called mates even going as far as to bring their families in to it then accusing BNP/NF lads who are allied with the NWI of doing it.Sadly the people in the NWI are of limited intelligence and can not see this or believe it.The rat Latmier now fronts something called the Northern Casuals a fantasy outfit of never have been football hooligans.the NWI have some good lads involved,but will not achieve much now.'


----------



## Firky (Dec 28, 2012)




----------



## Red Storm (Dec 29, 2012)

*Far-right vacuum could trigger 'lone-wolf' attacks*





> The fragmentation of the far right could spark a new wave of political violence and Anders Breivik-style lone-wolf acts of terrorism, according to the head of the UK’s first research centre into contemporary fascism.
> 
> 
> The warning comes as new figures reveal that there have been nearly 500 anti-Islamic attacks since March, with more than half linked to supporters of far-right groups. Professor Nigel Copsey told The Independent that the electoral decline of the British National Party (BNP) and the splintering of street-based protest organisations such as the English Defence League (EDL) had created a potentially dangerous political vacuum on the far right.
> ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 29, 2012)

'Centre for Fascist, Anti-fascist and Post-Fascist Studies.' some cynics may see this as a nice bit of job creation by copsey who is justifying it with scaremongering - like searchlight/HnH have done. but not me!


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 30, 2012)

EDL News saving us the bother of having to listen to KKKev's 'muggy mushroom' speech. mucho obligado! 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...r/957-kevin-carroll-s-christmas-speech-fiasco


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## The39thStep (Dec 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> 'Centre for Fascist, Anti-fascist and Post-Fascist Studies.' some cynics may see this as a nice bit of job creation by copsey who is justifying it with scaremongering - like searchlight/HnH have done. but not me!


 
Well Goodwin has Extremis


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 30, 2012)

yeah it's well dull. 'academic anti-fascism' seems to operate solely by feeding info to the media, like searchlight.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 30, 2012)

Gable has been pushing this lone-wolf line for the last few years - see his Lone Wolf Project  and through various academics.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 30, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah it's well dull. 'academic anti-fascism' seems to operate solely by feeding info to the media, like searchlight.


 
expert witnesses in prosecutions of far right members
training for Prevent type delivery between councils and Police

more than just feeding info to the media Mal.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 30, 2012)

fair enough feller! (it's just a bit DRY!).


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## The Black Hand (Dec 31, 2012)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah it's well dull. 'academic anti-fascism' seems to operate solely by feeding info to the media, like searchlight.


Its the way they bolster the 'reach' and 'credibility' of their research for future grant applications, all coverage bolsters their careers.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 31, 2012)

The Black Hand said:


> Its the way they bolster the 'reach' and 'credibility' of their research for future grant applications, all coverage bolsters their careers.


 
searchlight, the registered charity, have been doing this for years by inflating threats - column 88 and C18 - and the likes of copsey, goodwin etc are following suit in academia as well as acting as media pimps. the malatestas will be applying to the EU for a grant to research the political efficacy of 'drink a crate and smash the state' politics.


----------



## Corax (Dec 31, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Gable has been pushing this lone-wolf line for the last few years - see his Lone Wolf Project and through various academics.


Am I being overly cynical, or is that an easy punt on being able to say "I warned you" in the event that it happens - and therefore securing status as a 'leading expert' - and no possibility of discredit if it doesn't because _it might still yet_?


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## Fingers (Dec 31, 2012)

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/961-a-christmas-carroll


----------



## love detective (Dec 31, 2012)

unfunny, embarassing and shit

and this bit explicitly reveals the normally thinly disguised bigotry inherent in this kind of 'anti extremism':-



> and being English and at this point, Kevin had not got any time for kindness, compassion, charity or benevolence



tossers


----------



## Corax (Dec 31, 2012)

Happy New Year!


----------



## Fingers (Dec 31, 2012)

Lol NY resolution, don't post articles that take the piss out of fash.  WE MUST BEAT THEM AROUND THE HEAD WITH BROOMS AND CHAIR LEGS

Happy New Year all

xx


----------



## love detective (Dec 31, 2012)

first of all, if you're going to try and take the piss out of something (and see that as some kind of political objective), try and actually make it funny so that it might resonate, rather than the over laboured, unfunny and embarrassing pish like that article above

but more importantly, if you think that alienating loads of english working class people by coming out with bigoted to fuck stuff like this:-



> *and being English* and at this point, *Kevin had not got any time for kindness, compassion, charity or benevolence*


 
..is in some way contributing towards turning people away from getting involved with groups like the EDL, then you're ten times as thick and blinkered as those you attempt to parody/take the piss out of. You seem to think that smearing/taking the piss out of the english in general is an effective way of attacking certain english people involved in the EDL - even the EDL aren't as racist as that

bemused by your reference to brooms & chair legs - the last thing I would champion would be an ongoing campaign of physical confrontation against an irrelevant as fuck group like the EDL, just as your crap above (and relentless screen shot activity) continues to afford them a relevance they don't actually deserve/have, so would physical confrontation


----------



## Fingers (Dec 31, 2012)

The line you quoted appears to be lifted from A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens,  much like quite a bit of the rest of it. 

How was it attacking the English? 

Cheer up fella and have a good new year.


----------



## love detective (Dec 31, 2012)

what do you mean 'how was it attacking the english' - can you seriously not see how?

it explicitly states that as a result of _'being english'_ such a person has no '_time for kindness, compassion, charity or benevolence'_

in the eyes of the 'author', his englishness is the cause of the subject not having any '_kindness, compassion, charity or benevolence'_

_'being a muslim'_ such a person has no '_time for kindness, compassion, charity or benevolence'_

any easier to get now?

and it wasn't lifted from a christmas carol (lifted from a review of it perhaps?), in any case it wasn't as if for Dickens, Scrooge's lack of _kindness, compassion, charity or benevolence _was as a result of his englishness (it was a result of him being a businessman/capitalist), so not sure how you're trying to defend what was written by making out it was written by Dickens


----------



## Fingers (Dec 31, 2012)

I have just been back to have another look at the article and you seem to have selectively cut half of the sentence.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 31, 2012)

Full paragraph 
It had been three months since Kevin's business partner Tiny Tommy had been jailed for fraud and being English and at this point, Kevin had not got any time for kindness, compassion, charity or benevolence.
------
Locked up for being patriotic or English is the main edl whinge even when they have broken laws not related to being English or whatever.  It helps if you put it in context


----------



## Fingers (Dec 31, 2012)

Looking at it again I am assuming the author meant jailed for being English as they repeat further down but I see your issue now.  

Happy new year anyway


----------



## Frances Lengel (Dec 31, 2012)

love detective said:


> first of all, if you're going to try and take the piss out of something (and see that as some kind of political objective), try and actually make it funny so that it might resonate, rather than the over laboured, unfunny and embarrassing pish like that article above
> 
> but more importantly, if you think that alienating loads of english working class people by coming out with bigoted to fuck stuff like this:-
> 
> ...


 
I think you might have a point there.

Another thing that doesn't sit well with me is the EDL watch site's endless vilification of Karen Downes. Inarticulate racist she may be, but the woman's lost her daughter & no one's been brought to book for it - AFAIC, she's entitled to be as unhinged as she likes. A bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 31, 2012)

Hmmm I am not too sure on the Karen Downes stuff,  the documents that have been released leaked suggest that she was in just as much danger at home as the kebab house.  Think the poor lass was in danger all over the place.  

EDL news showed me them,  wrong all round.  Will expand on this further tomorrow when I am more sober but if you look back two pages you can see them and whoever wants to get these docs a bit more publicity is good with me.  

Would like to see this case closed. The docs revealed since was horrific stuff that should be looked into or declared as fake or followed up

Maybe edl news went about it the wrong way but who knows what is best to do if there is a cover going on.  

Apologies to love detective again


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 1, 2013)

Can we laugh at this or not?

http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/morrisons-supermarket-go-halal-edl-casualsunited/


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 1, 2013)

Like the casuals give a fuck about the UK farming industry.


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## Ranbay (Jan 1, 2013)

I like the part where she can't fucking read


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## malatesta32 (Jan 1, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Like the casuals give a fuck about the UK farming industry.


 
or womens rights, gay rights, halal or kosher production. its using an emotive issue to further a racist agenda.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 1, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> I think you might have a point there.
> 
> Another thing that doesn't sit well with me is the EDL watch site's endless vilification of Karen Downes. Inarticulate racist she may be, but the woman's lost her daughter & no one's been brought to book for it - AFAIC, she's entitled to be as unhinged as she likes. A bit of compassion wouldn't go amiss.


 
the tragedy is appalling, that no one denies. but the documents fingers points out allege sexual, physical and mental abuse of the wee lass and her siblings by the dad and his mates - and also imply that the mam was either aware of it or, worse, colluding.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2013)

I don't think they should be slagging her off or praising her. they should not be mentioning her at all except in the context of how the edl have used her daughters death. Its more OMG the fash posted something on facebook and are ugly shit

_OMG the fash arent exactly fine specimens of the aryan race themselves !_


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 1, 2013)

fingers said:​'Hmmm I am not too sure on the Karen Downes stuff, the documents that have been released leaked suggest that she was in just as much danger at home as the kebab house. Think the poor lass was in danger all over the place.'​which the docs affirm. if the documents are proved to be right then the BNP, EDL, casuals will have been 'sporting peedos' - a major political error.​​and just out of interest: http://twitpic.com/brizim


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 1, 2013)

Whatever happened to Charlene Downes, I just think it's in poor taste for _anyone_ to make political mileage out of it. And lets not forget, regardless of Charlene's home situation, it's accepted fact that those kebab shop boys were using young girls for sex - A fucking horrible gig from which nobody comes out covered in glory.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 1, 2013)

there is much more on this story yet to come out. charlene wasnt the only girl at risk. the police ballsed it up. social services failed to act. the documents allege neglect by the family etc. it is not only about the poor lass. 
http://twitpic.com/brizim
the liam bloke on here, despite being a bugle, seems more clued up than most. rather tactlessly and grossly he claims that someone 'was slipping charlene a length down paki alley at 25 quid a go.' [sic].


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 1, 2013)

and of course you are right, 'A fucking horrible gig from which nobody comes out covered in glory.' 

i started researching MSM on the background of the story and to be honest i was pretty horrified.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 1, 2013)

i got told off by butchers for going on about this - so apologies butchers!


----------



## jakethesnake (Jan 2, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/02/edl-clint-bristow-custody-burglary


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 2, 2013)

what a toilet.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 2, 2013)

http://thenorthernmonkeymedia.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/search-for-the-truth-charlene-downes/


----------



## gawkrodger (Jan 3, 2013)

Anpther EDL splinter (may already have been talked about, can't be arsed to read through the thread), the imaginatively named English Volunteer Force


> Our name...was chosen by the four man Inner Council that controls the E.V.F


 
and who



> predominantly stands against Extreme Islam.
> We will also stand robustly against Dissident Irish Republicans


 
are having a demo in Brum at the end of the month hoho


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 3, 2013)

they have been around since about autumn last year. when tommy and kev went to USA, tony curtis wasnt allowed to go so went to off to join EVF but left the same say cos they 'were racist.' bugle! give em 6 months then call the vet in.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 3, 2013)

EVF. oh dear! 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...lunteer-force-court-nazis-for-birmingham-demo


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 3, 2013)

> We would also like to break one of our own rules and respond to a videoed rant that included our organisation's name being mentioned. *Among the insults was reference to EVF sounding like an electrical supplier*.


 
LOL


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 3, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Well Goodwin has Extremis


 
Anyone know what Goodwin's politics are? Only some of the stuff I've seen him tweet makes me think he might be a Tory, which says a lot about liberal antifascism if I'm right.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 3, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Anyone know what Goodwin's politics are? Only some of the stuff I've seen him tweet makes me think he might be a Tory, which says a lot about liberal antifascism if I'm right.


 
I suspect Labour if anything but I also suspect that his politics are defined by who is listening/commissioning him.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 3, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> I suspect Labour if anything but I also suspect that his politics are defined by who is listening/commissioning him.


 
Politics defined by who is listening or paying? Isn't that the definition of the modern Labour party anyway


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 3, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Politics defined by who is listening or paying? Isn't that the definition of the modern Labour party anyway


 
Under the the previous govt he did quite a few seminars, sometime with Hope Not Hate, sometimes with Ted Cantles lot on the back of  the Prevent and Connecting Communities monies. I saw him  both at Manchester University  and Manchester Town  Hall .


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 3, 2013)

just been through the New British Fascism or whatever its called. a BNP history without any good bits. dont expect him to be more radical than copsey or renton.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 3, 2013)

I'd never heard of him until about 3 years ago when someone accused me of _being _him (long and very odd story) so I had a quick google - he seems to have come out of nowhere over the last couple of years to rival Copsey for the role of go to fascism expert.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 3, 2013)

think i'll ask them for a job. i know stuff and things!


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 3, 2013)

http://britishfreedom.org/kev-carroll-becomes-british-freedom-chairman/

British Freedom are pleased to announce that Deputy Chairman Kevin Carroll has today stepped up into the role of party Chairman.


----------



## albionism (Jan 4, 2013)

hahahahaha


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 4, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'd never heard of him until about 3 years ago when someone accused me of _being _him (long and very odd story) so I had a quick google - he seems to have come out of nowhere over the last couple of years to rival Copsey for the role of go to fascism expert.



His early stuff was working with Ipsos Mori polling data,treating the BNP as they would any political party. Most other commentators on fascism were either trying to make the BNP fit a theory ie they are all Tories or petite bourgeoisie , still callingbthem nazis and promoting no platform or making jokes about ill fitting suits.

Essentially what Goodwin et al did was to give some insight into who voted and who would vote BNP and why.particularly useful for labour councils who were losing votes to them but also to anyone who wanted to understand where to invest political resources .to be fair his written stuff pretty much exposed the misinformation and myths that had been built up around BNP support, I found it very enlightening but bourgeois anti fascism


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 4, 2013)

paul weston sacked then! kkkev will no doubt do just as good a job.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> they have been around since about autumn last year. when tommy and kev went to USA, tony curtis wasnt allowed to go so went to off to join EVF but left the same say cos they 'were racist.' bugle! give em 6 months then call the vet in.


 

EVF? fuck me you ain't setting your sights very high if you're trying to emulate a loyalist paramilitary force that would have been useless without heavy state back up


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jan 5, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Anyone know what Goodwin's politics are? Only some of the stuff I've seen him tweet makes me think he might be a Tory, which says a lot about liberal antifascism if I'm right.


 
I met someone who worked with him professionally, and I asked them this question, and the person replied "he's a racist." I didn't push it coz I don't know the person very well and it wasn't appropriate at the time, and this is one person's opinion it shouldn't be taken as gospel obviously, but thought I might put that out there.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 5, 2013)

Can't say that's something that comes across in any of his stuff that I've read. Your friend wasn't involved with UAF or SWP were they? Only I've heard them call searchlight/HNH racist too because they said that Muslim paedophile gangs were fueling the far right.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jan 5, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Can't say that's something that comes across in any of his stuff that I've read. Your friend wasn't involved with UAF or SWP were they? Only I've heard them call searchlight/HNH racist too because they said that Muslim paedophile gangs were fueling the far right.


 
Just someone who worked with him who was from manchester, and friend is the wrong word, one time aquaintence. And yeah I wouldn't think he's racist at all based on what he writes either.


----------



## thriller (Jan 5, 2013)

anyone no the name of that asian scottish edl guy? whats he been up to lately???


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 5, 2013)




----------



## Ranbay (Jan 5, 2013)

In other news....



> English Defence League Angels
> The weekend is upon us, I wonder how many of you will be hitting the clubs and pubs getting rat arsed, then crawling into your local kebab house eating that shite And when you purchase these products you are indirectly killing a British Soldier, every takeaway (kebab house) must give 10% of their takings to the central mosque in that area. When every Central Mosque has received this 10% they then send these monies to the Pashtun region of Afghanistan where the Taliban get hold of it. the money is then used to buy components for IED's and bullets that are turned against OUR troops. ENJOY YOUR NEXT KEBAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Citizen66 (Jan 5, 2013)

Even if they're Greek.


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## Kev Scott LTJ (Jan 6, 2013)

Or Turkish


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 6, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> In other news....


Considering the 'sauce' they put on at the Old T parade kebab house, theres probably IED's going off lr&c in several households...the following morning.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 6, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> I met someone who worked with him professionally, and I asked them this question, and the person replied "he's a racist." I didn't push it coz I don't know the person very well and it wasn't appropriate at the time, and this is one person's opinion it shouldn't be taken as gospel obviously, but thought I might put that out there.


 
Find this persons views hard to swallow tbh. Goodwin had a small army of people doing Phd's and masters in extremism around him at Manchester and he simply couldn't get the work that he does if that was the case from Icoco, Fabian Society ,EHRC, Hope Not hate etc. he has done some work for the Tories but as I said he tailors his political content to where the work comes from.

He isn't an open borders supporter though but does that make him racist?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 6, 2013)

If they are working with him professionally and think he's a racist this throws up very serious question about this person not Goodwin - and they may well say a lot about liberal antifascism, but not Goodwin's. Not the sort of thing that should just be "put out there" either.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> If they are working with him professionally and think he's a racist this throws up very serious question about this person not Goodwin - and they may well say a lot about liberal antifascism, but not Goodwin's. Not the sort of thing that should just be "put out there" either.


 
I think this "aquaintance" is very probably a twat.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 7, 2013)

10 months according to the Guardian ticker...



EDL leader Stephen Lennon jailed for 10 months after pleading guilty to using someone else's passport to get into US. More details soon


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 7, 2013)

How long has he been on remand - about two months? So out in three?


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## Mrs Magpie (Jan 7, 2013)

Beeb link here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20935502


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## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2013)

yeah he was remanded last week of october. he will have copped the guilty please to get out of the nonce wing asap! still got the fraud charges over him though.


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## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2013)

that's up next week or so i think?


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## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2013)

no kebabs for a while then? 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/tommy-guilty/


----------



## Deareg (Jan 7, 2013)

Don't normally get any pleasure out of seeing people jailed, but in this bastards case .


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## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2013)

If i could be arsed i would look back and check but he's defo up in the next few months for the mortgage Fraud thing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2013)

Deareg said:


> Don't normally get any pleasure out of seeing people jailed, but in this bastards case .


 
i know, but schadenfreude is such a gas! i have no pity for lying, cheating criminals and spivs. especially ones that lead anti-working class scab organisations and cant even admit to their core beliefs. or even adhere to their own mission statement. wankers.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 7, 2013)

> But when Lennon arrived at New York's JFK Airport, customs officials took his fingerprints and realised he was not travelling on his own passport.
> 
> Lennon was asked to attend a second interview but managed to leave the airport, entering the US illegally.


 
How the fuck did he manage to get through US customs on a false passport after they'd sussed him? I thought they were supposed to be pretty tough.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 7, 2013)

So is Paul Harris his actual name then? Seems very strange to alter his name to Tommy Robinson from Stephen Yaxley-Lennon if the latter isn't actually his name either.

Why not just call himself something common like Mohammed Mukhtar? it's like veil-face Guess Who.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jan 7, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> How the fuck did he manage to get through US customs on a false passport after they'd sussed him? I thought they were supposed to be pretty tough.


 
The phrase "but managed to leave the airport" stands out to me. Really? Just like that? At JFK airport?


----------



## Dan U (Jan 7, 2013)

maybe they got a call to let him in and out so we could nick him


----------



## paolo (Jan 7, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> The phrase "but managed to leave the airport" stands out to me. Really? Just like that? At JFK airport?



I expect there's more detail to it than that. Procedural cock up? Did a runner through a convenient door? Could be any number of things.


----------



## keybored (Jan 7, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> So is Paul Harris his actual name then? Seems very strange to alter his name to Tommy Robinson from Stephen Yaxley-Lennon if the latter isn't actually his name either.



Altering it to Tommy Robinson doesn't really seem strange for the leader of The EDL (it sounds a bit more "street" than Stephen Yaxley-Lennon) but I do wonder why S.Y.L. in the first place. Didn't he fancy himself as a property entrepreneur for a bit? Perhaps he thought a double barrelled surname might give him some credibility.

Either way he's got some identity issues in lots of senses.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 7, 2013)

DanU said:


> maybe they got a call to let him in and out so we could nick him


 
Shame they didn't nick him there and put him in Maximum Security for 10 years.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2013)

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130307T00&p0=136&msg=Tommy's+release


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## Kev Scott LTJ (Jan 7, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20130307T00&p0=136&msg=Tommy's release


Probably irrelevant if he gets done for the fraud bits


----------



## pardon (Jan 8, 2013)

keybored said:


> Altering it to Tommy Robinson doesn't really seem strange for the leader of The EDL (it sounds a bit more "street" than Stephen Yaxley-Lennon) but I do wonder why S.Y.L. in the first place. Didn't he fancy himself as a property entrepreneur for a bit? Perhaps he thought a double barrelled surname might give him some credibility.
> 
> Either way he's got some identity issues in lots of senses.


 
The more I see, the more I think, security services intelligence operative. Its the job of our intelligence services to be at the centre of these organisations knowing what they are doing in advance and I doubt theres an extremist or subversive organisation out there without tbe security services snooping about.  I think EDL is just a honeypot 

Who has so many aliases,  have you ever met anyone in your life who uses more than two? 

How do you sail through customs having just been caught using an illegal passport and taken to a holding area?  Who goes to America for one day? 

Its too bizarre


----------



## keybored (Jan 8, 2013)

pardon said:


> intelligence



He did an amazing job of hiding that.


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 8, 2013)

The British Far Right, when not plagued by outright incompetence, is usually found to be heavily infiltrated by the State. The instances that prove this as hard fact are not far away. Charlie Sargeant and the whole C18 debacle is a prime example. Also, Matthew Collins' book "Hate" (although treated with caution) showed the various characters of the NF, BNP, C18 along with B+H to be the sort of people who (when not trying to sort out their bizarre or destructive personal lives) were busy crying on the telephone to Searchlight/The Cops and stitching up their comrades.

The EDL is just the same. If you wait another five or so years the "insiders" will more than likely come out of the woodwork ready to spill the beans.

Malatesta's comment above about certain groups or individuals having no true convictions is spot on. It's a bit like the Nuremburg trials, where as soon as these supposedly avowed National Socialists were looking at the hangman's noose it was suddenly all the fault of that nasty man with the funny mustache and had nothing to do with them.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 8, 2013)

getting a passport in your own name is hard enough! the paul harris one has been knocking about for ages. the judge admitted that tommy wasn't using his own name. the SYL name is a weird choice but yes, he was trying to be an entrepeneur - which all collapsed by the way. the property thing is part of the mortgage fraud and his tanning salon was liquidated (?) and he resigned from being the MD a couple of years ago, coincidentally just as EDL was growing. most of the EDL who have been up in court bottle it and disavow their politics. robinson is no exception. also having been thru JFK airport just 'running out of a door' sounds very unlikely. i am not one for conspiracy theories but after the 1st EDL scottish debacle, they were all nicked by SB and robinson was taken to sheffield - why sheffield? this was before the world cup and plod were obviously fishing for info on nazis and hooligans. this is where the grass accusations came from. if you look at his criminal record, its pretty extensive, so being compromised by plod into giving info is not a wild accusation. the whole thing reeks. also notice that kkkev is now leader of the fluffies having realised the gig is up and distancing himself. tommy is going to be left with a seriously depleted EDL on release.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 8, 2013)

bit more detailed than my suppositions here: 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/01/505348.html


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 8, 2013)

But still barmy - the edl formed to put cameron in power because Brown was leading in the polls at the time (he wasn't, the tories had a solid double figure lead, reaching 20% in the month that _negotiations_ must have taken place to form the edl - these things _need_ to be got right_) _and the iraq and afghan invasions and occupations had helped spark off a left-wing resurgence that was offering the state a serious challenge - and recent edl decline due to them being wound down with their aim successfully achieved, Cameron elected and this left-wing nightmare averted.

Paranoid and fact free (or simply wrong - the northern league allusion is simply bonkers) clearly trying to force old actions, things that did actually happen (i.e far-right street groups being established and manipulated for various ends) and inflating small things into contemporary national plans of action. There clearly are some questions to asked and there equally clearly the same old shit as before is going on (and one thing the article gets right is that you can be sure as anything that the _opposition _are facing the same problems_) _but it will be on the same basis and level - personal or factions of the services initiative, not as part of a centrally directed national or international operation, initiatives that may be driven by anti-criminal rather than political agendas. I don't even recognise the social reality that this article suggest provoked the security services formation of the edl - the need to destroy "opposition to British Foreign Policy amongst the working classes." for example.

edit: on reflection i think it may well just be a piss-take.


----------



## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

Doesnt exactly stand up to scrutiny does it? The political aspects of those conspiracy theories are laughable in every sense. I agree that the lower-level routine practical stuff is probably where the action has been, but thats just not exciting enough for people to construct wacky tales with.

I do not see the point in even trying to construct such tales, not in a country where very little political capital was made out of terror attacks. The stakes are too high for those sort of games.


----------



## pardon (Jan 8, 2013)

elbows said:


> Doesnt exactly stand up to scrutiny does it? The political aspects of those conspiracy theories are laughable in every sense. I agree that the lower-level routine practical stuff is probably where the action has been, but thats just not exciting enough for people to construct wacky tales with.
> I do not see the point in even trying to construct such tales, not in a country where very little political capital was made out of terror attacks. The stakes are too high for those sort of games.


 
What do you know about gladio and the relationship between the nato stay behinds and far right groups during the cold war? That isnt conspiracy theory,  its a matter of historical fact. The military security services have shown they will use far right groups in the past,  across europe. 

Take a look at what is happening in Germany,  state security are very heavily involved  the far right. 

You say little political capital gain was made from the terror attacks,  yet we still swapped freedom for security. Lots of  security gains from those attacks,  restrictions on freedom,  internationally connected surveillence infrastructure. 

Ill be very surprised if the EDL isnt found to be a military intelligence led or instigated affair.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 8, 2013)

Then compare the situation in post-war Europe and the balance of international forces and global motivations with the situation in this country today. What do you see?

The ploy of saying that something happened in the past so any claim you may like to throw around today is therefore true and not worthy of any critical scrutiny is not going to work here.


----------



## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

pardon said:


> You say little political capital gain was made from the terror attacks, yet we still swapped freedom for security. Lots of security gains from those attacks, restrictions on freedom, internationally connected surveillence infrastructure.


 
That agenda had long been under way and was sponsored by technological evolution & the military industrial complex as much as anything.


----------



## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

pardon said:


> What do you know about gladio and the relationship between the nato stay behinds and far right groups during the cold war? That isnt conspiracy theory, its a matter of historical fact. The military security services have shown they will use far right groups in the past, across europe.
> 
> Take a look at what is happening in Germany, state security are very heavily involved the far right.


 
I'm not an expert on it, but I know about it. 

There is a world of difference between the politics of that stuff and what we have seen so far this century. The sorts of stupid conspiracies mentioned in that article would be served by building a right-wing force that was actually effective in some way, rather than the arse-end of things we have seen from the EDL, a sponge soaking up the counterproductive bumbling forces that nobody would want fighting for their cause.


----------



## intersol32 (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm not going to necessarily conclude that the whole EDL affair is a State construct. That's something we may have to wait for. However, we can be pretty certain that once they were up and running and gaining some media attention approaches would have been made to pay certain people off, put pressure on them or insert their own undercover agents.

I think it's a fair assessment that if a handful of Eco fluffies get infiltrated and righteously shafted (such as outlined in the Mark Stone affair), then you can bet the EDL are no exception.

Again, if I were to start making leaps of logic at this point and alleging that it was all a set up connected to the shadowy machinations of Westminster then I'd be indeed over-reaching myself. But the fact that even very recent examples of State manipulation exist then it's essentially still food for thought and not to be dismissed so easily or naively.


----------



## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

That isnt what I'm dismissing though.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 8, 2013)

paolo said:


> I expect there's more detail to it than that. Procedural cock up? Did a runner through a convenient door? Could be any number of things.


Not having brown skin and a muslim sounding name probably helped him a bit.


----------



## laptop (Jan 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> The ploy of saying that something happened in the past so any claim you may like to throw around today is therefore true and not worthy of any critical scrutiny is not going to work here.


 
Have we had a "_qui bono_?" yet?

If not, may I short-circuit this side-track?


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> bit more detailed than my suppositions here:
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/01/505348.html


 
That is embarassing


----------



## framed (Jan 9, 2013)

Is this all going to end like Alan Bleasdale's GBH with Tommy/Stephen/Paul and Uncle Kev reverting to their original plummy Oxbridge accents as they depart Luton - job done - for another mission?

Nah...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 9, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> That is embarassing


 
I coudn't read past this drivel



> This is probably the first case of its kind in modern legal history when a UK citizen born in the United Kingdom, known to the tax system as a self-employed businessman, has had the shadow of doubt cast upon his actual identity in a UK court of law.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2013)

calling larry o hara!


----------



## krink (Jan 9, 2013)

there was a show on bbc3 about luton and the edl where the young lass presenting it went to see SYL because she went to school with him and she said he was called stephen lennon when he was at school. so i reckon he is definitely called stephen lennon.

its very likely he has had several chats with the spooks/cops/whatever but all the rest is just speculation without any evidence at all. that ocham's(?) razor thing innit.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 9, 2013)

It is possible he's changed his name by deedpoll it is not an unusual thing for a small business man to do by any means


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> It is possible he's changed his name by deedpoll it is not an unusual thing for a small business man to do by any means


taller people change their names too shock


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 9, 2013)

It may have been a feminist statement.


----------



## Bun (Jan 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> calling larry o hara!


Is that entirely necessary? :-0


----------



## Fingers (Jan 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> calling larry o hara!


 
please no.....


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 9, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> That is embarassing


Just spotted another one:



> Jewish mavericks might have thought it was useful idea to help promote a far right person with less candid anti-semitism, to take the heat off an intolerant world where more and more Jewish graves are vandalised by neo-nazis, *but the EDL was established long before Golden Dawn or the financial crisis that predated it,* which blows this particular conspiracy theory out the water.


 
Wrong by two decades on the GD claim and wrong on the crisis claim by (depending on your view) 1-3 years.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Jan 9, 2013)




----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2013)

krink said:


> there was a show on bbc3 about luton and the edl where the young lass presenting it went to see SYL because she went to school with him and she said he was called stephen lennon when he was at school. so i reckon he is definitely called stephen lennon.
> 
> its very likely he has had several chats with the spooks/cops/whatever but all the rest is just speculation without any evidence at all. that ocham's(?) razor thing innit.


 
yeah forgot about that, that dooley girl. there is no way he hasnt been 'chatting with plod' - as did tyndall, griffin et al. in 2010 when the soccer world cup was on the EDL were on the rise . plod wd have been very interested in names etc of potential  hooligans and neo-nazis who might want to ruin the game. which incidentally is a divisive, nationalistic, capitalism scum fest of foul celebrities who never say their prayers before bedtime, i'll wager sirrah!


----------



## krink (Jan 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> the soccer world cup...which incidentally is a divisive, nationalistic, capitalism scum fest of foul celebrities who never say their prayers before bedtime, i'll wager sirrah!


 
 sacrilege!


----------



## pardon (Jan 12, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Then compare the situation in post-war Europe and the balance of international forces and global motivations with the situation in this country today. What do you see?
> 
> The ploy of saying that something happened in the past so any claim you may like to throw around today is therefore true and not worthy of any critical scrutiny is not going to work here.


 
The stay behinds were set up to initially defend a red war but when that didn't happen turned their attentions to dealing with the internal threat and certainly in Italy fought a war against its communists fifth column. They went to war using fascist groups since the communists were their natural enemy.

The far right in Italy attacked ordinary citizens in order that the public seek protection from the state. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GGHXjO8wHsA#t=3069s

I certainly believe it to be possible that the security agencies would once again use the far right to do its dirty work. The initial EDL Movement was very quickly taken over from Paul Ray's street led campaign against islamic extremists and turned into a more professional political force.

Certainly the job of the security services is to infiltrate subversive groups. While the balance of power was different, the state definitely saw an immense and immediate threat from the extremist muslims, so much so that we saw a massive rollback in freedoms far more so than we ever saw when the Irish republicans were attacking the UK mainland.

I suspect the state have been at the centre of the EDL for a long time, that's all.


----------



## miktheword (Jan 12, 2013)

keybored said:


> Altering it to Tommy Robinson doesn't really seem strange for the leader of The EDL (it sounds a bit more "street" than Stephen Yaxley-Lennon) but I do wonder why S.Y.L. in the first place. Didn't he fancy himself as a property entrepreneur for a bit? Perhaps he thought a double barrelled surname might give him some credibility.
> 
> Either way he's got some identity issues in lots of senses.


 
IIRC he chose 'Tommy Robinson' as he was the main face in Luton's M.I.G.s
and Lennon has run with Luton's firm. The real TR was not best pleased about it, I think.
Getting away from the 'Lennon' title has limited the anti Irish abuse he gets from some of his followers, but not totally and his Irish roots get brought up by the splitters.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 13, 2013)

miktheword said:


> IIRC he chose 'Tommy Robinson' as he was the main face in Luton's M.I.G.s
> and Lennon has run with Luton's firm. The real TR was not best pleased about it, I think.
> Getting away from the 'Lennon' title has limited the anti Irish abuse he gets from some of his followers, but not totally and his Irish roots get brought up by the splitters.


 
I wondered whether the original Tommy Robinson wasn't a bit miffed at someone appropriating his name.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 13, 2013)

miktheword said:


> IIRC he chose 'Tommy Robinson' as he was the main face in Luton's M.I.G.s
> and Lennon has run with Luton's firm. The real TR was not best pleased about it, I think.
> Getting away from the 'Lennon' title has limited the anti Irish abuse he gets from some of his followers, but not totally and his Irish roots get brought up by the splitters.


 
yeah yr right mate. he was done for hooly behaviour with them too. the 'real TR' wasn't best pleased. the 'taig' tag is used against our man tho with little to back it up from what i can tell.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 13, 2013)

oh dear 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/970-edl-solihull-demo-declared-a-disaster
and oh dear again!
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/969-edl-to-hold-fascist-parade-in-bristol
they did so well last time!


----------



## Firky (Jan 15, 2013)

Still Laughing At The English Defence League is attacking racism with sexism and misogyny today. Attacking a woman because of the appearance of her skin. 

See their latest posting for what I mean, I don't know how you link to individual posts. Maybe RaverDrew can link to it, he's on the case too.

/derail.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 15, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...5549768.-2207520000.1358271883&type=3&theater


----------



## Fingers (Jan 15, 2013)

To be fair, I think misogynist is a bit strong, they target far more blokes than women and the bloke get far worse said about them without anyone batting an eyelid.

Having come across the lovely Miss Gandy on an internet forum and being told that I would be the first to swing from a lamp post if ever she got into power, I really do not give a fuck if her feeling are hurt.

The thing is with SLATELD, they really don't give a fuck either, they are sort of the anti Expose who go way to far the other way.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 15, 2013)

ANyone seen that English Disco Lovers campaign?


----------



## Fingers (Jan 15, 2013)

I have Truxta, it needs more exposure


----------



## Fingers (Jan 15, 2013)

Seven Bradford Division taken off the streets.  They all thought they were going to get a suspended but the judge fucked them hard up the backdoor and they have got between four and fourteen months inside.

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/986-six-edl-bradford-division-jailed


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 16, 2013)

firky said:


> Still Laughing At The English Defence League is attacking racism with sexism and misogyny today. Attacking a woman because of the appearance of her skin.
> 
> See their latest posting for what I mean, I don't know how you link to individual posts. Maybe RaverDrew can link to it, he's on the case too.
> 
> /derail.


 
I thought we all new SLATEDL were bollocks.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2013)

SLATEDL, EDL News etc are great sources for info as indeed are the individual/group facebook pages. people need to counter fascism in the way they see fit, as is appropriate to them personally, that is their choice. there isn't 1 way to deal with fascism as history shows us, its more of a concerted effort by many that does the trick.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2013)

as for the bradford lot, what a bunch of arse bugles
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/986-six-edl-bradford-division-jailed


----------



## Stash (Jan 16, 2013)

Anybody know more about this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-21024647


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2013)

chaos for upcoming manc loyalist protest! 
https://www.facebook.com/events/212459355557525/


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2013)

stash, its for some facebook comments and altho he is total arse bugle, it looks like a pretty feeble case. cant plod find owt else to pin on 'chairman kev?'


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 16, 2013)

firky said:
			
		

> Still Laughing At The English Defence League is attacking racism with sexism and misogyny today. Attacking a woman because of the appearance of her skin.
> 
> See their latest posting for what I mean, I don't know how you link to individual posts. Maybe RaverDrew can link to it, he's on the case too.
> 
> /derail.



yeah, someone I know was posting on that photo. 

Although not being sexist themself tbf.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 16, 2013)

From the Manchester flag demo page.. ouch


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jan 16, 2013)

Fingers said:


> I have Truxta, it needs more exposure


 
Everyone google EDL + Disco then click on a link


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 17, 2013)

Snowy - emigrates to Canada shortly. yet another immigrant. bugle.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 17, 2013)

miktheword said:


> IIRC he chose 'Tommy Robinson' as he was the main face in Luton's M.I.G.s
> and Lennon has run with Luton's firm. The real TR was not best pleased about it, I think.
> Getting away from the 'Lennon' title has limited the anti Irish abuse he gets from some of his followers, but not totally and his Irish roots get brought up by the splitters.


Yep that's correct - he nicked TR's name cos of the hoolie connection and the 'cred' the name had locally around Luton. At one point some people thought they were the same guy. The real Tommy Robinson isn't a racist - he just liked fighting a lot (his book "MIG Crew" is an alright read, if you like that sort of thing. There's some great stories in it, including when they went on holiday to Spain and started a riot with the local police, and ended up spending two weeks in jail  ). It's true that the real TR wasn't pleased. I remember an incident at football (Luton) where someone got a fist in the face for taking the real TR's name in vain.

As for the passport business, I imagine what happened was he managed to get the Paul Harris passport by getting someone called Paul Harris (who'd never had a passport) to apply for a passport with SYL's photo on it, knowing that the Americans wouldn't have let him in otherwise.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 17, 2013)

The Paul Harris passport has been doing the rounds since before he got refused entry to the US for what i can remember


----------



## framed (Jan 17, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yep that's correct - he nicked TR's name cos of the hoolie connection and the 'cred' the name had locally around Luton. At one point some people thought they were the same guy. The real Tommy Robinson isn't a racist - he just liked fighting a lot (his book "MIG Crew" is an alright read, if you like that sort of thing. There's some great stories in it, including when they went on holiday to Spain and started a riot with the local police, and ended up spending two weeks in jail  ). It's true that the real TR wasn't pleased. I remember an incident at football (Luton) where someone got a fist in the face for taking the real TR's name in vain.


 
I didn't know the full story to the Tommy Robinson name. That is cheeky as fcuk for _Whateverhisnameis_ to take the name of a 'top boy' with the local firm and then use it to publicly promote himself and the EDL politically. The inference is obvious; deliberate confusion of the two people with the name TR, give yourself an immediate 'hardman' rep without earning it, and tar the real TR with the brush of the EDL and fascism. No wonder yer man was angry about it...


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 17, 2013)

What's he done about it?


----------



## FNG (Jan 17, 2013)

there was some chatter on the vine that one of the kick ins tommy got that he tried to pin on fundies was football related, iirc the one just before "the big one" demo in luton 2010


----------



## manny-p (Jan 18, 2013)

FNG said:


> there was some chatter on the vine


You mean on the net.


----------



## moonstomp (Jan 18, 2013)

Interesting post over on Storm****t , someones done some digging around Tr's family name and if its to believed its possible he was adopted and Harris birth name and Yaxley Lennon name a result of parent remarrying or something , still a bit bizarre the tool thought he could get into and out of USA with different passports and no one would notice


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 18, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> Snowy - emigrates to Canada shortly. yet another immigrant. bugle.


Elk Elk Elk DF........


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 18, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Elk Elk Elk DF........


Sorry wrong outfit..


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 18, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yep that's correct - he nicked TR's name cos of the hoolie connection and the 'cred' the name had locally around Luton. At one point some people thought they were the same guy. The real Tommy Robinson isn't a racist - he just liked fighting a lot (his book "MIG Crew" is an alright read, if you like that sort of thing. There's some great stories in it, including when they went on holiday to Spain and started a riot with the local police, and ended up spending two weeks in jail  ). It's true that the real TR wasn't pleased. I remember an incident at football (Luton) where someone got a fist in the face for taking the real TR's name in vain.
> 
> As for the passport business, I imagine what happened was he managed to get the Paul Harris passport by getting someone called Paul Harris (who'd never had a passport) to apply for a passport with SYL's photo on it, knowing that the Americans wouldn't have let him in otherwise.


The Day of the Jackal....


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What's he done about it?


I'm not sure, but I can make some enquiries....


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 18, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I'm not sure, but I can make some enquiries....


Cheers, depends if you're interested yourself really, was just a passing thought...


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Cheers, depends if you're interested yourself really, was just a passing thought...


Yeah I'm interested. I know there's plenty of stories...some of the older boys I drink with at football delight in this sort of stuff, so I'll see what I come up with!


----------



## FNG (Jan 18, 2013)

manny-p said:


> You mean on the net.


yes, thats the one,appols got carried away with the Dashiell Hammett.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 18, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yep that's correct - he nicked TR's name cos of the hoolie connection and the 'cred' the name had locally around Luton. At one point some people thought they were the same guy. The real Tommy Robinson isn't a racist - he just liked fighting a lot (his book "MIG Crew" is an alright read, if you like that sort of thing. There's some great stories in it, including when they went on holiday to Spain and started a riot with the local police, and ended up spending two weeks in jail  ). It's true that the real TR wasn't pleased. I remember an incident at football (Luton) where someone got a fist in the face for taking the real TR's name in vain.
> 
> As for the passport business, I imagine what happened was he managed to get the Paul Harris passport by getting someone called Paul Harris (who'd never had a passport) to apply for a passport with SYL's photo on it, knowing that the Americans wouldn't have let him in otherwise.



I actually bought the MIG book on the strength of assuming it was the same bloke!


----------



## manny-p (Jan 18, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> I actually bought the MIG book on the strength of assuming it was the same bloke!


Closet Tommy lover.


----------



## Montgolfier (Jan 18, 2013)

Hope the EDL havn't seen this video:



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 18, 2013)

Montgolfier said:


> Hope the EDL havn't seen this video:
> 
> 
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


I bet they have by now. There's a thread on it in the other forum: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/sharia-law-being-imposed-in-london-muslim-areas.305058/


----------



## Fingers (Jan 18, 2013)

They have and they are foaming.  Not sure if this video was made to wind up the EDL or not.  If not I would like to see both groups stuck on a desert island and fight til the death over the last manky cockroach.

CxF have stated they are going down to sort it out but in all likelihood CxF will turn up drunk and get the shit kicked out of them.

This is the first time the CxF have shown their heads above the parapet since they got turfed out of Liverpool and then went back to their mates house and stole of her.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 18, 2013)

FNG said:


> there was some chatter on the vine that one of the kick ins tommy got that he tried to pin on fundies was football related, iirc the one just before "the big one" demo in luton 2010


 
EDL News speculated on this

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/404-the-tommy-robinson-beating-fiasco

13,000 hits on that one


----------



## miktheword (Jan 18, 2013)

framed said:


> I didn't know the full story to the Tommy Robinson name. That is cheeky as fcuk for _Whateverhisnameis_ to take the name of a 'top boy' with the local firm and then use it to publicly promote himself and the EDL politically. The inference is obvious; deliberate confusion of the two people with the name TR, give yourself an immediate 'hardman' rep without earning it, and tar the real TR with the brush of the EDL and fascism. No wonder yer man was angry about it...


 




yer man is at 25.30 into Dyer's pwapa nawty Lunnon doc


----------



## pardon (Jan 19, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> As for the passport business, I imagine what happened was he managed to get the Paul Harris passport by getting someone called Paul Harris (who'd never had a passport) to apply for a passport with SYL's photo on it, knowing that the Americans wouldn't have let him in otherwise.


 
Yet he was caught out by fingerprints?


----------



## Favelado (Jan 19, 2013)

My favourite thing about the start of that documentary is how Dyer is stood in a silent, empty street on a grey day that could come from a Smiths song and describes London as the most exciting city in the world. At least choose Piccadilly Circus or something to try and make your point.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 19, 2013)

Everything else about Danny Dyer is dripping with credibility of course.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 19, 2013)




----------



## audiotech (Jan 19, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Everything else about Danny Dyer is dripping with credibility of course.


 
'Yeah, yeah, yeah. Know wot I mean.'

Gary Bushell's on that video too, trying to not roll his 'R's'. Nightmare.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 19, 2013)

The cockney accent will be dead within a generation. Praise the lord as MLE takes over.


----------



## audiotech (Jan 19, 2013)

Doubt it. The mockney one on't t'other hand I shed no tears for.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jan 19, 2013)

I can't wait to see your fanny


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 20, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I can't wait to see your fanny


 
Has Julie Birchhill hijacked your account?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 23, 2013)

pardon said:


> Yet he was caught out by fingerprints?


Yeah, presumably when they checked his fingerprints on the way out of the USA, they realised the same fingerprints were associated with two different passports, hence they stopped him.


----------



## pardon (Jan 23, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah, presumably when they checked his fingerprints on the way out of the USA, they realised the same fingerprints were associated with two different passports, hence they stopped him.


 
they stopped him on the way in, so they must have had another set of fingerprints for that passport.

The whole thing is very odd, how can one simply escape after being caught sneaking into the country on the wrong passport.


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 24, 2013)

Liverpool NWI get charged

Counter Terror Unit to deal with a minor scuffle.

Strategic reason why semi or fully organised political violence, at the moment, isn't worth it imo.


----------



## framed (Jan 24, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> Liverpool NWI get jailed
> 
> Counter Terror Unit to deal with a minor scuffle.
> 
> Strategic reason why semi or fully organised political violence, at the moment, isn't worth it imo.


 

Which 'anti-fascist group' necessitated the protection of the Police Counter Terror Unit?


----------



## krink (Jan 24, 2013)

i heard the terror unit thing is not entirely as it seems because they also cover public order stuff in general as far as I remember. someone with a better memory might be able to flesh that out a bit ha ha


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 24, 2013)

framed said:


> Which 'anti-fascist group' necessitated the protection of the Police Counter Terror Unit?


 
Probably Liverpool Anti-Fascists. 

Though there's been a change of leadership since I think


----------



## Red Storm (Jan 24, 2013)

krink said:


> i heard the terror unit thing is not entirely as it seems because they also cover public order stuff in general as far as I remember. someone with a better memory might be able to flesh that out a bit ha ha


 
They're also using violent disorder for what seems to be a minor scuffle.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2013)

Favelado said:


> The cockney accent will be dead within a generation. Praise the lord as MLE takes over.


 
i fucken hope so pal!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2013)

pinkham nicked again. he must love prison food that loser. it may have been when they attacked the musicians on their way back from a benefit. arse clowns.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2013)

more on liverpool. 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/01/505830.html?c=on#comments


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2013)

amusing and pretty accurate summation from east mids folk! 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/01/505819.html


----------



## BigTom (Jan 26, 2013)

About 30 out today for the EVF demo in Brum apparently. Doesn't sound like it was very interesting, I don't know how many were at the uaf counter demo. Had about twice as many hits as usual on the birmingham against the cuts blog today with people searching to for stuff about the demo though, lol.

There's a photo here: http://www.itv.com/news/central/story/2013-01-26/evf-and-uaf-demo-in-birmingham/ only 1 of them  I was hoping that was it but spoke to a friend who could make it today and he said about 30, including some punks which I've not seen at EDL demos.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 27, 2013)

punks at EDL demos? crivvens! photographic evidence must be required for that 1 to prove that 1/ punks still exist, and 2/ so do the EVF! sounds a piss poor start for piss poor org. thanks for the info tom!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 27, 2013)

eye witness account: There was no more than 50 evf supporters, escorted from the brass house pub by police for around 300 hundred yards to the static demo site at centenary square.Demo lasted 30 minutes if that then they were escorted back to the brass house.Complete & utter fail if looked at objectively.The weather was fantastic public transport links into Birmingham are second to none which proves that nothing but a lack of fundamental support for evf & its ridiculous agenda was the cause of the abysmal turnout.Not hearsay,I was there these are the facts.


----------



## BigTom (Jan 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> punks at EDL demos? crivvens! photographic evidence must be required for that 1 to prove that 1/ punks still exist, and 2/ so do the EVF! sounds a piss poor start for piss poor org. thanks for the info tom!


 
Friend who was there told me, he was really surprised too. Obviously there's a history of nazi and punk but unexpected. The evf however, I've supplied photographic evidence in my previous post. I suppose technically doesn't show that evf exist as a group, assuming you need more than one person for a group anyway...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 27, 2013)

this is the 150 EVF who actually number 30. yr right, there were some nazi punks. some punk mates of mine were sort of attached to BM etc but not many. and i think we all know the word to this one!


----------



## Fingers (Jan 27, 2013)




----------



## articul8 (Jan 28, 2013)

Dr Matthew Feldman - from some new unit at Teeside.  What do we know of him?  Sounded well dodgy on the radio - talking about "anti-fascist extremism" as part of the same phenomena as far right extremism.  Looks like he's worked with the state at quite a level in the past too.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> Dr Matthew Feldman - from some new unit at Teeside. What do we know of him? Sounded well dodgy on the radio - talking about "anti-fascist extremism" as part of the same phenomena as far right extremism. Looks like he's worked with the state at quite a level in the past too.


He's one of Gable's ins to academic respectability - see his previous role at The Radicalism and New Media Research Group. The new one follows the same anti-extremism agenda, Copsey is the other bigwig involved.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 28, 2013)

ah, makes sense.


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 28, 2013)

Am I correct in saying the EDL march in Manchester in March is on the same day as the UAF National Conference in London? Mmmmm.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2013)

yeah dr's feldman & copsey etc have just set up the  Centre for Fascist, Anti-Fascist and Post-Fascist Studies. given that it is attached to teeside uni then it is likely that the agenda follows the 'against all extremists' line that gable has been pushing for years. must say that copseys antifascism in britian was a lot more sympathetic to  ,militants than renton etc ever have been! we shall see. the launch was addressed by various academics but no representatives from UAF, antifa etc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah dr's feldman & copsey etc have just set up the Centre for Fascist, Anti-Fascist and Post-Fascist Studies. given that it is attached to teeside uni then it is likely that the agenda follows the 'against all extremists' line that gable has been pushing for years. must say that copseys antifascism in britian was a lot more sympathetic to ,militants than renton etc ever have been! we shall see. the launch was addressed by various academics but no representatives from UAF, antifa etc.


doesn't have a website yet i see


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2013)

hey pickmans! early days just yet. they had a do on holocaust day on 25th. searchlight have been promoting it on their website (along with jibes at HnH etc). why can't we all get along eh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> hey pickmans! early days just yet. they had a do on holocaust day on 25th. searchlight have been promoting it on their website (along with jibes at HnH etc). why can't we all get along eh?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2013)

ha ha just read that again the other week. such fun!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2013)

looks like the EVF are off to a flying halt!
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat.../1001-english-volunteer-force-demo-birmingham


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 28, 2013)

Can we close this thread now then?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 28, 2013)

not before i go through it to copy some stuff admin!


----------



## manny-p (Jan 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Can we close this thread now then?


You heart it really butchers


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 7, 2013)

Is it really closed?

MEH... where will I get my laughs?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 8, 2013)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Is it really closed?
> 
> MEH... where will I get my laughs?


 
try reading the infidels facebook pages, they're hilarious.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 8, 2013)

Aye, but its hilarious shite.... oh yeah and I don't do facebook... thats why I liked it here!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 17, 2013)

latest 'malatesta'
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/02/17/an-interview-with-an-ex-edl-member-by-malteser-taster/


----------



## Firky (Feb 20, 2013)

*TWAFA - Tyne and Wear Anti Fascist Association*​ 
Saturday saw a turn out in Berwick from around twice as many anti-fascists than SDL, where the town had the misfortune to be the focus for the SDL’s latest racist protest. On the day around 70 SDL turned out with drunken chants included appropriately “SS SDL ” which they chanted at passers by. Whilst passing through Scots Gate, they also chanted “Paedophiles” and “wifebeaters” at a very bemused public.

It was no surprise that the vile crew of SDL were escorted from the train station through the town by the costly police force drafted in to deal with the protests and that the day ended in drunken disorder and 5 arrests. One for being drunk and disorderly, two for breach of the peace, one for possession of cannabis and one for disorderly conduct.

http://www.twafa.org.uk/2013/02/20/far-right-sdl-demo-bring-drunks-and-disorder-to-berwick/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2013)

what a waste of time, energy and money. what did they achieve apart from make themselves look like a rapidly diminishing spent force.


----------



## Random (Feb 20, 2013)

firky said:


> *TWAFA - Tyne and Wear Anti Fascist Association*​
> Saturday saw a turn out in Berwick from around twice as many anti-fascists than SDL, where the town had the misfortune to be the focus for the SDL’s latest racist protest. On the day around 70 SDL turned out with drunken chants included appropriately “SS SDL ” which they chanted at passers by. Whilst passing through Scots Gate, they also chanted “Paedophiles” and “wifebeaters” at a very bemused public.
> 
> It was no surprise that the vile crew of SDL were escorted from the train station through the town by the costly police force drafted in to deal with the protests and that the day ended in drunken disorder and 5 arrests. One for being drunk and disorderly, two for breach of the peace, one for possession of cannabis and one for disorderly conduct.
> ...


Is this the Scottish Defence League trying to re-fight Flodden?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2013)

more like dunkirk.


----------



## Firky (Feb 20, 2013)

Berwick is a very, very strange town.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2013)

me auntie lives there and loves it!


----------



## krink (Feb 20, 2013)

i went to Berwick for me hols every year when i was a kid. Loved it.

so they got 70 in berwick, how many will they get in sunderland on the 30th March? the edl, nei, evf and probably npf are going. one who probably won't be appearing is the charming Warren 'idiot' Faulkner last seen getting bagged in berwick.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Feb 20, 2013)

Report just up on Indymedia, that Antifascists were attacked in Manchester earlier - http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/02/506713.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2013)

casuals had been moanin about UAF in MCR flyposting but not sure if this was UAF or Manc antifash. they were definitely being followed and the attacked when they had less numbers.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2013)

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/02/506718.html


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 20, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> casuals had been moanin about UAF in MCR flyposting but not sure if this was UAF or Manc antifash. they were definitely being followed and the attacked when they had less numbers.


Or not? Some of the comments are saying that it never happened?

Anyone know anything about it?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2013)

what the attack?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 20, 2013)

The wonders of internet anti fascism


----------



## Fingers (Feb 21, 2013)

Tommy is out of the nick and tagged.  He is probably wondering what the hell KKKev has done to his organisation


----------



## Fingers (Feb 22, 2013)

The SDL have a spot of bother going on within the ranks

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...scottish-defence-league-in-turmoil-over-grass


----------



## Limerick Red (Feb 22, 2013)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Or not? Some of the comments are saying that it never happened?
> 
> Anyone know anything about it?


 
Word from Manchester is its all bollocks, didnt happen!


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Word from Manchester is its all bollocks, didnt happen!


----------



## manny-p (Feb 22, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Word from Manchester is its all bollocks, didnt happen!


Ur 2nd post?


----------



## manny-p (Feb 22, 2013)

The39thStep said:


>


Great film you are named after. Watched it again the other day. Wicked.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 22, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Great film you are named after. Watched it again the other day. Wicked.


 
I'm not sure that's a screenshot from it however


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 22, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Ur 2nd post?


 
Y r u surprised?


----------



## Limerick Red (Feb 22, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Ur 2nd post?


3rd now, fascinating isn't it!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 22, 2013)

what will the next one be?

number 4 maybe...


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 22, 2013)

LR is good people!


----------



## audiotech (Feb 22, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Great film you are named after. Watched it again the other day. Wicked.


 
The most acclaimed film version, out of the four major ones, released in 1935 and directed by, Alfred Hitchcock, starring, Robert Donat, and, Madeleine Carroll, yes?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> LR is good people!


 
Do you know him/her?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2013)

audiotech said:


> The most acclaimed film version, out of the four major ones, released in 1935 and directed by, Alfred Hitchcock, starring, Robert Donat, and, Madeleine Carroll, yes?


 
yup


----------



## barney_pig (Feb 22, 2013)

There was a bbc adaptation a few years back, which made great play of 'getting back to the original book' and disparaged the changes that Hitchcock et al made, however when it made it to the screen seemed to have missed the Jewish anarchist conspiracy completely.


----------



## audiotech (Feb 22, 2013)

Interesting. I borrowed the book from the local library when very young and what an exciting read it was/is.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 22, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Do you know him/her?


 
met him the other week with bignose, deareg, atilla and mickey o farrell


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 22, 2013)

and its the robert powell one thats best!


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> met him the other week with bignose, deareg, atilla and mickey o farrell


haven't seen Mick for donkeys years. Were you doing a bit more for the book?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 22, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> There was a bbc adaptation a few years back, which made great play of 'getting back to the original book' and disparaged the changes that Hitchcock et al made, however when it made it to the screen seemed to have missed the Jewish anarchist conspiracy completely.


 
That's the best bit.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 22, 2013)

steps, he turned up for the dave hann launch with several other faces. it was a huge success for a book launch. i kept hassling mick to write it all down but he was pretty reluctant. he did an entertaining speech tho and his stuff in hann's book is essential stuff. lovely feller.  read all abaht it! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/physical-resistance-book-launch-a-big-success/


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 23, 2013)

EDL in Cambridge today doing a "static" protest as they're not allowed to march. It's currently snowing and bitterly, bitterly, cold in a biting easterly wind.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 23, 2013)

good luck whoevers there! 2 antifascist demos in 1 week. jings!


----------



## krink (Feb 23, 2013)

meanwhile this is the massive turn out by Simon Biggs' NF splitters the National Patriotic Front in Sunderland today:



I heard they could only get 7 confirmed so they bottled it at the last minute and blamed the snow saying it was too cold to protect the people of sunderland from the muslamic threat.

As you can see from the lack of snow, they obviously do not come from round here. shitters.


----------



## steeplejack (Feb 23, 2013)




----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 23, 2013)

Shit! Demo in Cam!

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/New...-take-place-in-central-Cambridge-22022013.htm

https://twitter.com/search?q=#CamEDLprotest&src=hash

Some great pics


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 23, 2013)




----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 23, 2013)

krink said:


> meanwhile this is the massive turn out by Simon Biggs' NF splitters the National Patriotic Front in Sunderland today: I heard they could only get 7 confirmed so they bottled it at the last minute and blamed the snow saying it was too cold to protect the people of sunderland from the muslamic threat. As you can see from the lack of snow, they obviously do not come from round here. shitters.


 
what a set of tossers. great stuff! no surrender -  unless its a wee bit chilly. its even worse that the southend & demo! great pic may have to nick it for the blog krink!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 23, 2013)

awesome people of cambridge show em how its done! 70 EDL my arse. 30 tops. looks good for manchester then?


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 23, 2013)

http://t.co/Zm8NKxY6jI


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 23, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> steps, he turned up for the dave hann launch with several other faces. it was a huge success for a book launch. i kept hassling mick to write it all down but he was pretty reluctant. he did an entertaining speech tho and his stuff in hann's book is essential stuff. lovely feller. read all abaht it!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/01/31/physical-resistance-book-launch-a-big-success/


 
I was speaking to a mate during the week who used to be in Class War , have you interviewed any of their ex members?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 23, 2013)

no, i aint. i had so much material to draw on that i didnt need to do interviews (great to do, tedious to type up and edit). daves book is more interviews, mines more referenced etc.


----------



## krink (Feb 23, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> what a set of tossers. great stuff! no surrender - unless its a wee bit chilly. its even worse that the southend & demo! great pic may have to nick it for the blog krink!


 
yeah i just saw the blog post via twitter


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 23, 2013)

Post-demo? Heading towards Pizza Hut / Starbucks!


----------



## krink (Feb 23, 2013)

heard that the NWI had a group of 20 heckling an anti-cuts march in the north west today. pics would be useful if anyone has them.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 23, 2013)




----------



## The39thStep (Feb 23, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> no, i aint. i had so much material to draw on that i didnt need to do interviews (great to do, tedious to type up and edit). daves book is more interviews, mines more referenced etc.


 
you are going to use the contributions that posters made on here though?


----------



## Prince Rhyus (Feb 23, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> awesome people of cambridge show em how its done! 70 EDL my arse. 30 tops. looks good for manchester then?


 
Was there earlier today - the local mosque brought out lots of free curry, rice & samosas at the end of the march for the hundreds that went on it too.


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 23, 2013)

krink said:


> heard that the NWI had a group of 20 heckling an anti-cuts march in the north west today. pics would be useful if anyone has them.


 
There is this


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 23, 2013)

> You Nazi scum, you hit me in the shoulder


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 23, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> There is this




A bunch of retards about 12 of them tanked up had tried a leaflet session in the town centre/ market street area for the EDL demo next Saturday..they heard about the anti cuts demo from one of their pals who had walked by earlier and who then persuaded them to take a stroll down to Albert Square where under plod protection they gobbed off for 10 minutes before finding another boozer to continue what they are most famous for.


----------



## manny-p (Feb 23, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I'm not sure that's a screenshot from it however


Thats one of the deleted scenes comrade!


----------



## manny-p (Feb 23, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> A bunch of retards about 12 of them tanked up had tried a leaflet session in the town centre/ market street area for the EDL demo next Saturday..they heard about the anti cuts demo from one of their pals who had walked by earlier and who then persuaded them to take a stroll down to Albert Square where under plod protection they gobbed off for 10 minutes before finding another boozer to continue what they are most famous for.


Thought they were NWI bignose?


----------



## sunny jim (Feb 23, 2013)

Gobbing of to an anti cuts march means apart from being fash scum they're also boss arse licking scab cunts.


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 23, 2013)

The English Disco League....


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 23, 2013)

....and the opposition....


----------



## Favelado (Feb 24, 2013)

"Piss off, I'll do what i want."


----------



## albionism (Feb 24, 2013)

Is this one of those Fash punks that i have been hearing about?


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 24, 2013)

albionism said:


> Is this one of those Fash punks that i have been hearing about?
> View attachment 29351


 
The toothless wonder needs to borrow his mates hat........


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 24, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> you are going to use the contributions that posters made on here though?


yeah including you if thats okay! so far ive got great stuff from intersol (hilarious) , liamO (even more so), past caring, framed (great stuff from scotland) ayatollah, joe, and frogwoman basically wrote the intro! just having to okay it with everyone the now.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 24, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> There is this




thats shane calvert, or diddyman, who is going to go down for the attack on liverpool antifascists with pedo pinkham. he needs a good fucknig kicking the little gobshite.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 24, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Gobbing of to an anti cuts march means apart from being fash scum they're also boss arse licking scab cunts.


 
always said the EDL etc were scabs. theyve attacked unions, anti-cuts, occupy etc.yet now are asking for unity over the bedroom tax. bosses lackeys and fucking thick with it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 24, 2013)

edl news on it as usual ! 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...dl-humilated-in-manchester?COLLCC=3585026684&


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 24, 2013)




----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 24, 2013)

what a bunch of fucking lowlifes. all of em.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 24, 2013)

albionism said:


> Is this one of those Fash punks that i have been hearing about?
> View attachment 29351


 



/dc


----------



## albionism (Feb 24, 2013)

Were they angry because he was equating their beloved Nazism with
Islam and insulting the Swastika?


----------



## tony.c (Feb 24, 2013)

Another pic from Indymedia:


----------



## tony.c (Feb 24, 2013)

And another. They are arguing on Facebook about whether they should be drinking in public. Apparently it's a political statement against the 'Muslamics' opposition to alcohol! Not because they're a bunch of moronic pissheads.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 24, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Another pic from Indymedia:View attachment 29395


 
Hoots mon!

/preemptsmal


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 24, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Another pic from Indymedia:View attachment 29395


Is that a kilt?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 24, 2013)

EDL casualwear is available in a wide range of sizes - High Strength Lager, White Cider, and Tonic Wine, plus DWW For The Ladies.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 24, 2013)

Diamond White, breakfast of aryan champions


----------



## tony.c (Feb 24, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Is that a kilt?


Going by the belly it could be a maternity frock.


----------



## cantsin (Feb 24, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Going by the belly it could be a maternity frock.


 
tbf,  camo kilt and watty mohawk is a strong look


----------



## tony.c (Feb 24, 2013)

cantsin said:


> tbf, camo kilt and watty mohawk is a strong look


Perhaps if you're 20, not if you're 50.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 25, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Is that a kilt?


no it is NOT! its a travesty sir, a travesty! best mass kilt wearing i ever saw was walking past murrayfield one saturday afternoon when scotland were playing at home and all these large geezers walked past in timberlands, kilts, and scotland tops or t-shirts. it was about minus 2 and they were not bothered. awesome!


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 25, 2013)

...and then England took the Calcutta Cup home.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> no it is NOT! its a travesty sir, a travesty! best mass kilt wearing i ever saw was walking past murrayfield one saturday afternoon when scotland were playing at home and all these large geezers walked past in timberlands, kilts, and scotland tops or t-shirts. it was about minus 2 and they were not bothered. awesome!


----------



## seeformiles (Feb 25, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Diamond White, breakfast of aryan champions


 
TBF most white cider brand names could double up as White supremicist organisations


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 25, 2013)

Manchester callout! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/people-get-ready/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 25, 2013)

new bunch of the uusal puerile rubbish!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2013)

http://cambridge.tab.co.uk/2013/02/...10151303630060689":"og.likes"}&action_ref_map


----------



## Fingers (Feb 25, 2013)




----------



## tony.c (Feb 25, 2013)

'I'll hunt you down on Facebook and _slander you.'  _


----------



## emanymton (Feb 26, 2013)

Why do you think your being arrested? 
Because I needed a pee.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2013)

'The truth is it isn’t really about privilege or class, it’s just about people being assholes.' 
good angle!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2013)

what a bunch of piss artists.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 26, 2013)

Do you remember when there was a time when some posters thought that Griffin would give his right arm to have the EDL on his side?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 26, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Do you remember when there was a time when some posters thought that Griffin would give his right arm to have the EDL on his side?


Why, has he got another barn conversion to do?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2013)

yeah he proscribed em first then realised there be money to make but by the time he had come to regret his decision tommy had fleeced em already!


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 26, 2013)

It was more to do with political positioning more than anything else .


----------



## Red Storm (Feb 26, 2013)

tony.c said:


> 'I'll hunt you down on Facebook and _slander you.'  _


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 26, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah he proscribed em first then realised there be money to make but by the time he had come to regret his decision tommy had fleeced em already!


 

hadn't Griffin come to party leadership through a distinct rejection of the old policy of controlling (or attempting to) the streets? hence it would be logical that he'd reject the EDL as 'we tried that, we moved away from it'?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> hadn't Griffin come to party leadership through a distinct rejection of the old policy of controlling (or attempting to) the streets? hence it would be logical that he'd reject the EDL as 'we tried that, we moved away from it'?


Not really - he imposed that policy after his election - he was still giving it the_ on the cobbles_ nonsense as part of his platform.(it was a few key people behind the scenes who realised that game was up - terry blackham esp iirc they pushed Griffin into it)


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2013)

yeah and after the post-electoral route policy all fell to pieces post 2010 GE, it was lets go back back to square one.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2013)

latest 'malatesta' : http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/02/27/the-cambridge-effect/


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Feb 28, 2013)

Random nuttyness and sulks from the Scou$e Nationalists on their blog after being asked to leave today's Bedroom Tax protests in Bootle !


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 28, 2013)

fucking scab bastards anyway. we shall be meeting them on saturday!


----------



## love detective (Mar 1, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not really - he imposed that policy after his election - he was still giving it the_ on the cobbles_ nonsense as part of his platform.(it was a few key people behind the scenes who realised that game was up - terry blackham esp iirc they pushed Griffin into it)


 
indeed - a good 3 years after tony lecomber's:-

_'__no more marches, meetings, punch-ups'_

Griffin was still going on about how:-

_'i__t is more important to control a city’s streets than its council chamber' _


----------



## lazythursday (Mar 2, 2013)

Was just at Hebden Bridge station where there was a big multi-ethnic police presence in case any stray EDL from the Manchester demo wandered into our eco-druggie-left-liberal enclave. Fair warmed my heart. Very few passing through on the trains though apparently.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 2, 2013)




----------



## butchersapron (Mar 2, 2013)

In passing, Watmough seems to have had a visit. 

(whose first on the news etc)


----------



## emanymton (Mar 2, 2013)

I see EDL news has the banner 'blowing on the dying embers of the EDL'. Doesn't that normally restart the fire?


----------



## tony.c (Mar 2, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


>



'hundreds of far-right protesters'? - doesn't look like more than 100
pic from indymedia


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 2, 2013)

That's more than 100, but not over 500


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Mar 2, 2013)

About another 50 weren't in this main group and arrived in the square in dribs and drabs prior to these


----------



## tony.c (Mar 2, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> That's more than 100, but not over 500


It might be more than 100, but nowhere near 500.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Mar 2, 2013)

i was in Albert Square for most of the afternoon, here are my photos on Demotix > EDL Manchester


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 2, 2013)

tony.c said:


> It might be more than 100, but nowhere near 500.



Closer to 500 than 100, 14 across almost 30 deep at ruff look


----------



## tony.c (Mar 3, 2013)

The police are only 7 across and 20 deep from what I can see, with a gap at the back.

The RT video shows the police at the front with their backs to the fash. Looks like a setup to me. They should be facing them. Probably to encourage the drunk numpties to throw their smokebombs and bottles thinking they weren't going to be seen. Of course it will have been videoed, and they will probably be getting an early morning wake up call soon.


----------



## Red Storm (Mar 3, 2013)

'Redwatch raided'


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 3, 2013)

i was there and the counterdemo was way too small. the edl were well pissed and they had about 250. theres an aerial shot that show how wee it was. bit of nothing really.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 3, 2013)

malatesta in manchester. http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/manchester-monkey-business/


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 3, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> 'Redwatch raided'


how that little scrote has got away with it so long makes me suspect he may be 'compromised.'


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 3, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> 'Redwatch raided'


 
Old news (post 11482)


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 3, 2013)

http://twitpic.com/c8f9nm

Size etc


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 3, 2013)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 3, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


>



Has he just been ambushed by Danny Dyer?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 3, 2013)

> A gang of thugs from the EDL splinter South East Alliance, tried to stop people from the Trade Union movement and HNH leafletting against the BNP this morning, but failed.
> 
> SEA leader Paul Prodromou, who prefers to use the name Paul Pitt to sound more English, and seven friends tried to intimidate a car load of activists into leaving the area.
> 
> ...


 
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/2523/thugs-fail-to-stop-campaigning-in-essex


----------



## Das Uberdog (Mar 3, 2013)

i heard that some EDL got a bit knocked about in Manc post demo - any reports?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 4, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Has he just been ambushed by Danny Dyer?


Grange hill cunts.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 4, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Grange hill cunts.


More Brookdale sticking it to Rodney Bennett.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 4, 2013)

HNH Havering video:


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## krink (Mar 4, 2013)

how did they know exactly where he would be?


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## malatesta32 (Mar 5, 2013)

Exposing the EDL's Lies: http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/lets-talk-bollocks/


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## malatesta32 (Mar 5, 2013)

Das Uberdog said:


> i heard that some EDL got a bit knocked about in Manc post demo - any reports?


 
not sure, plod had it down pretty tight. if i see anything i'll post it.


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## Fingers (Mar 5, 2013)

Yeah some Casuals got picked off by Anarchists on the way to the station


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## Fingers (Mar 5, 2013)

Oh dear, Nazis at the Manchester demo

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/1044-the-edl-and-their-manchester-demo-nazis

And Paul Pitt sticks one right in his own net, Gareth Barry stylie

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...ul-pitt-posts-evidence-for-his-own-prosection


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## malatesta32 (Mar 5, 2013)

'halfwitted grief vultures'  - great phrase!


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## The39thStep (Mar 9, 2013)

Interesting analysis of the EDL that challenges  some of the grossly stereotyped caricatures displayed on here

http://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/public/Research/Europe/0313bp_goodwin.pdf


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## malatesta32 (Mar 9, 2013)

the problem with the grossly stereotyped carcicatures is that the EDL so often conform to them. the main accusations are: drunk, violent, racist, stupid ('all opposition are pedos', 'all muslims terrorists'), disruptive and unable to argue their points in any coherent or convincing way. in MCR last week, drinking at 8am, fighting at victoria, walkabout and in the pen, offensive chanting, plentiful v signs, and they stereotype all antifascists as 'smelly' (crikey!), UAF, 'commies', 'pedo supporters.' etc. they hardly play it down mate!


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## malatesta32 (Mar 9, 2013)

i see he is talking about the social background (ie, jobs, housing, education) but the 1st point still stands.


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## The39thStep (Mar 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i see he is talking about the social background (ie, jobs, housing, education) but the 1st point still stands.


 
Pity you didn't read the article before your first comment mal?

Btw what did you make of the Hann/Purbeck book?


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 9, 2013)

i did a review in the last freedom that i will repost on the blog later. i thought there was some great original material in there - interviews with mick o farrell, spanish veteran, later anti-EDL stuff etc - which really need to be uploaded onto AFA archive as its essential peoples history from militants involved. there are so few books on anti-fascism that it really should be read bearing in mind it was unfinished and LP had to finalise it.


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## audiotech (Mar 9, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Interesting analysis of the EDL that challenges some of the grossly stereotyped caricatures displayed on here
> 
> http://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/default/files/public/Research/Europe/0313bp_goodwin.pdf


 
Xenophobia, rather than outright racism and immigration a concern, as well as a perceived threat from Muslims. The more active supporters of Defense Leagues do participate in mainstream politics, are more likely to vote - Conservative party and extreme right, such as the BNP. Some are not against violence directed at "extremists". They are not all "Chavs".



> This underscores the need for these strategies to simultaneously explore ways of addressing, at one level, ‘harder’ responses to disrupt the actual pathways into these groups and, at another, ‘softer’ responses aimed at addressing misperceptions and hostility within the wider public towards Islam and the role and perceived compatibility of Muslim communities. Unpacking and calming these anxieties is a key task.


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## DrRingDing (Mar 10, 2013)




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## malatesta32 (Mar 10, 2013)

nazi turnout in wales was weak. 
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/2541/swansea-was-that-it


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## The39thStep (Mar 10, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Xenophobia, rather than outright racism and immigration a concern, as well as a perceived threat from Muslims. The more active supporters of Defense Leagues do participate in mainstream politics, are more likely to vote - Conservative party and extreme right, such as the BNP. Some are not against violence directed at "extremists". They are not all "Chavs".


 
Even this cack handed summary challenges some of the 'pasty faced lumpen acned yoof' type insults that have passed for political comment on here.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 10, 2013)

'cack handed' - 
originally meaning left handed, stemming from cultures that use their right hand to eat and their left hand to wipe their behind.' 
Racist against left handers!


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## The39thStep (Mar 10, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> 'cack handed' -
> originally meaning left handed, stemming from cultures that use their right hand to eat and their left hand to wipe their behind.'
> Racist against left handers!


 
Have you looked up 'after the Lord Mayors show ' yet?


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## malatesta32 (Mar 10, 2013)

no what does it mean? i have never heard of it mate!


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## malatesta32 (Mar 10, 2013)

'apart (Bloody Sunday 1995, Hoborn 1996) near everything else was in _political_ terms very much after the Lord Mayor's show.'

the context implies that there was a to-do after the lord mayors shindig. i remember heckling troops at a lord mayors show once somewhere on an antifash do.


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## audiotech (Mar 10, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> 'cack handed' -
> originally meaning left handed, stemming from cultures that use their right hand to eat and their left hand to wipe their behind.'
> Racist against left handers!


 
Paper on a string in the outside bog, heated in winter by an oil lamp. Proper "lumpen" Obadiah.


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## bignose1 (Mar 10, 2013)

Ha ha...I havnt heard that saying...'after the lord mayors show' in a Preston guild...!!


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## Red Storm (Mar 10, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> no what does it mean? i have never heard of it mate!


 
Here


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## malatesta32 (Mar 11, 2013)

its new one for me and sent me looking about for info on AFA in a brawl at the LMS.


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## joyce (Mar 11, 2013)

krink said:


> how did they know exactly where he would be?


 because he advertised the activity on his site, hope not hate


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## malatesta32 (Mar 12, 2013)

interesting comments! 
http://www.irr.org.uk/news/liverpools-irish-community-under-attack/


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## gawkrodger (Mar 12, 2013)

not sure where else to put this - seems Polish fash had a demo in Traf Square??

http://stadionowioprawcy.net/index.php?page=news&id=325


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## Delroy Booth (Mar 12, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> not sure where else to put this - seems Polish fash had a demo in Traf Square??
> 
> http://stadionowioprawcy.net/index.php?page=news&id=325


 
Is that something organised from Poland, or the Polish diaspora in Britain?


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## gawkrodger (Mar 13, 2013)

fuck knows


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## audiotech (Mar 13, 2013)

Limited, but some info suggests that "homespun Nazi's" from both Poland and Hungary are '"operating" among migrant workers and students here'.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 13, 2013)

didnt the poles turn up on remembrance day and set of flares thus almost causing a ruckus with the EDL kkknobs. also looks better than the nazi do on saturday!


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## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Limited, but some info suggests that "homespun Nazi's" from both Poland and Hungary are '"operating" among migrant workers and students here'.


 
In the case of the Poles this has been the case for about ten years!


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## audiotech (Mar 13, 2013)

I've frequented a Polish social club, with patriotic symbols on the wall, but never came across an organised group of around 200 Polish Nazi's before. Anyway, I preferred the Serbian club.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 13, 2013)

yeah those polish clubs were always very 'white' and bitterly anti-communists. used to drink in one in the afternoon. great beer and sausage.


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## krink (Mar 13, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> not sure where else to put this - seems Polish fash had a demo in Traf Square??
> 
> http://stadionowioprawcy.net/index.php?page=news&id=325


This may match up with something I read on twitter about some polish nazis hassling a Bangladeshi anti-police violence march in london.


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## treelover (Mar 13, 2013)

Can someone post up an image of the fascists in tralfalgar sq?

isn't this going to be a difficult one for many anti-fash activists?


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## treelover (Mar 13, 2013)

oh, found them , what was the demo about?, looks like a few footie ultras were there

btw, Jobbik have been having organising meetings for some time in London...


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## butchersapron (Mar 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> Can someone post up an image of the fascists in tralfalgar sq?
> 
> isn't this going to be a difficult one for many anti-fash activists?


Why? Polish football lads working over here. Meaningless really.


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## treelover (Mar 13, 2013)

maybe it was Polish Independence day and maybe not all were fash...


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## manny-p (Mar 13, 2013)

Google translate-We all met at the National Gallery in Trafalgar Square. The collection was scheduled for 14:00, but of course it does not run out of latecomers.
Upon arrival the first thing I threw out is lifted high national flags and flags and banners.

Legion fans prepared a big banner "Honour and glory Heroes" and Silesia FC fans Islands transparent "Diehards". In addition, she was seen Lechia FC England flag, the flag of the Patriotic Youth Association in the UK Patriae Fidelis, Nuremberg For Communism and "What Do You Know About the Second World War? '. Members of the association preached occasional speeches in English by passers-by, tourists and so they knew why we were there.

After some time, I do not know what team spread a particular banner 'Compatriots' s going down rogue governments Tusk ".

Everyone went on about Trafalgar Square, because we could not go in the direction of 10 Downing Street (the lack of consent on the part of police and security), the seat of Prime Minister Cameron, where he was a continuation of talks and shouts in English include: "Nuremberg for communism "," Better dead than red ", etc.

During the march were erected cries of "Army anathema, London remembers", "Honor and Glory to the heroes, once again hammer sickle, red rabble", "National Armed Forces of National Armed Forces," "Lies Michnik, put it in the trash," etc. There was a short speech, and after removing the caps from the heads of Dabrowski's Mazurka was sung. During the singing of the hymn are fired flares, the police called on meals, and the Association had to explain that there were no consequences. Immediately after the march is resolved and all the rest spread out in your hand.

In general, shares in the UK is very encouraging. At Trafalgar was a lot of interested people, so well that it was translated in English. Let them know that the Poles are patriotic values ​​in the first place!

On-site the most visible Silesia FC FC Islands of Lechia England, London Wisla FC, Legia Warszawa, you could see, amongst others, BKS Bielsko-Biala, Zaglebie Sosnowiec, Jagiellonia, Copper Legnica, Zawisza Bydgoszcz, LKS Lodz, Cracovia Kraków, GKS Tychy, Mazur Write (with the flag), the Ark of Gdynia, Lech Poznan, GKS Katowice, Sandecja New filtrate, Crown Kielce. In general march of about 200 people. Greetings and thanks for coming to those who were.


Take a look at a comprehensive relationship that you will not find anywhere else!


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## treelover (Mar 13, 2013)

It seems there is a growing and very reactionary nationalist movement in Poland, they also want out of the EU, despite it being very good for the old eastern bloc countries, at least for capital, etc....

edited for BA


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## butchersapron (Mar 13, 2013)

Very good? You mean making it a low-wage platform for german-based capital  and sending millions of young people out of the country to escape it?


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## treelover (Mar 13, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Google translate-We all met at the National Gallery in Trafalgar Square. The collection was scheduled for 14:00, but of course it does not run out of latecomers.
> Upon arrival the first thing I threw out is lifted high national flags and flags and banners.
> 
> Legion fans prepared a big banner "Honour and glory Heroes" and Silesia FC fans Islands transparent "Diehards". In addition, she was seen Lechia FC England flag, the flag of the Patriotic Youth Association in the UK Patriae Fidelis, Nuremberg For Communism and "What Do You Know About the Second World War? '. Members of the association preached occasional speeches in English by passers-by, tourists and so they knew why we were there.
> ...


 

Bystanders must have been absolutely baffled, and do they think Eton boy is a commie?


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## treelover (Mar 13, 2013)

"The day's events are hard to summarise – peaceful one minute, unbelievably violent the next – but I was certain of one thing after watching it all unfold: that the Polish far-right are undoubtedly on the rise. It was announced during the protest that the national movement was forming a political party and a paramilitary-style militia (Straz Niepodleglosci) in the style of the controversial Hungarian militia, Magya Garde. As if the rioting on Sunday wasn't enough, on Monday night, a group of a hundred nationalists *attacked a squat* in the city of Wroclaw, injuring many residents and leaving one in a serious but stable condition in hospital.


http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/polish-independence-day

has there been much about this on Urban?


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## butchersapron (Mar 13, 2013)

If there was rest assured _someone_ would moan about people concentrating on foreign issues.


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## treelover (Mar 13, 2013)

thats passe now...


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## malatesta32 (Mar 13, 2013)

that polish riot is fucking mental.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 13, 2013)

apparently EDL _are_ a far right threat now after we were told they _werent_ a far right threat by some other plod a bit back. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21767326


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## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2013)

audiotech said:


> I've frequented a Polish social club, with patriotic symbols on the wall, but never came across an organised group of around 200 Polish Nazi's before. Anyway, I preferred the Serbian club.


 
Doesn't operate that way, its indivual recruitment and small networks. Some of the B&H arrests a few years ago led to Police nazis being housed with other Poles in prison over here who were often very much opposed to their views.

There have been a handful of cases where Polish parents have objected to black teachers in school but this was about 8/9 years ago.

Vast majority of Poles like anywhere else want nothing to do with the far right. 

Last year there was a picture of a group of far right Poznan hoolies , the Terror Machine,posing about how hard they were which became a cult gay photo repeated on loads of sites. They were subsequently a laughing stock amongst other Police hoolies.


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## butchersapron (Mar 13, 2013)




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## Stigmata (Mar 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> Bystanders must have been absolutely baffled, and do they think Eton boy is a commie?


 
I saw that, didn't know what it was but they looked to be a rum bunch. There were some enthusiastic bongo players; I couldn't tell if they were part of proceedings or not


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## T & P (Mar 13, 2013)

I think the above image could do with a little dash of colour...


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## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> apparently EDL _are_ a far right threat now after we were told they _werent_ a far right threat by some other plod a bit back.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21767326


 
The Far Right were added to the Prevent Strategy a few years ago Mal.  The Channel project has always included the far right.


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## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> not sure where else to put this - seems Polish fash had a demo in Traf Square??
> 
> http://stadionowioprawcy.net/index.php?page=news&id=325


 
Doomed Soldiers Day apparantly  http://www.demotix.com/news/1838634/polish-nationals-commemorate-doomed-soliders-trafalgar-square


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## malatesta32 (Mar 13, 2013)

steps, back in november 2010 top plod adrian tudway said they werent an extremist org which caused a wee bit of mirth from some antifascists! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/the-edl-the-police-preston/


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## audiotech (Mar 13, 2013)

OK, I get you.


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## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> steps, back in november 2010 top plod adrian tudway said they werent an extremist org which caused a wee bit of mirth from some antifascists!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/11/28/the-edl-the-police-preston/


 
The Prevent strategy was originally focussed on Islamic extremism being the top international and national threat but the arrests of far right members and others with access to firearms and bombs, plus appearing to be even handed meant that very quickly local strategies embrassed the far right and later in some areas republican dissidents. Channel which is the programme that focuses on individuals thought to be at risk of violent extermism has always had EDL and other far right in its sights. This may be because local agencies are far more adept at identifying the white far right than they are the Islamic right .There is an infrequent poster on here who was/is doing an MA on it.

The Prevent strategy was reveiwed in 2011 and the far right formally acknowledged. Some groups had lobbied for this ( there was a particular attempt to get Blood and Honour listed), it has been suggested that there was a trade off between getting support from Muslim groups for Prevent and widening the scope to the far right.In most cases it had already been added locally.

The article you read actually mentions those jailed for domestic terrorism most of which are far white right extremist groups rather than EDL as well as the Channel project.

I'd be careful about anyone expressing glee about these strategies focussing on the EDL. Once you get that sort of monitoriong you inevitably begin to look at and gather intelligence on the those opposed to the far right.

There was a further fund Connecting Communities under the last Labour government was focussed on those communities where the far right had a foot in.Griffin blamed that funding for contributing to them losing their seats in Barking.


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## junglevip (Mar 13, 2013)

uk faces threat of murderous terror attack from far right extremist

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-attack-from-far-right-extremist-8533040.html

Dickheads!


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## malatesta32 (Mar 14, 2013)

why all this now? theyve been about since 2009 and no uk-breivik so far!


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## The39thStep (Mar 14, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> why all this now? theyve been about since 2009 and no uk-breivik so far!


 
wasn't this the line of one of then CT/extremist think tanks a couple of months ago. It wasn't Goodwin , it may have been Eatwell or Wilkinson? usually this sort of claim has a lobby behind it for funding or influence.


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2013)

butchersapron said:


>


They do like the hunky image eh? Do the ones with T shirts on feel insecure about their physique?


----------



## MillwallShoes (Mar 14, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> View attachment 29981


the one with the awful green jackett is the one who had a go at that searchlight bloke, no? christ they make me cringe. they give casual culture, which i once had a bit of respect for as youth culture thing, an awful name


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## DrRingDing (Mar 14, 2013)

junglevip said:


> uk faces threat of murderous terror attack from far right extremist
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-attack-from-far-right-extremist-8533040.html
> 
> Dickheads!


 


> Thousands of staff in schools, prisons, social services and hospitals are being trained to spot individuals who are drifting towards extremist views of all kinds, he said.


 
You what?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 14, 2013)

been going on a while


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## junglevip (Mar 14, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> You what?


 
Yep!  Things are getting warmer.  I am expected to be picked up for wearing my swastika emblazoned uber fetish *Lederhosen (I dont know why its gone green) *anytime now


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## DaveCinzano (Mar 14, 2013)

butchersapron said:


>


 
Right Said Fred still big in Poland then


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## The39thStep (Mar 14, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> You what?


 
That is w3hat the Channel programme is . 'Safeguarding '  innit?


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## The39thStep (Mar 14, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Right Said Fred still big in Poland then


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## MillwallShoes (Mar 14, 2013)

i wonder if any gay chaps have knocked one out over that. they should, on mass, and then email the nazi filth to tell them.


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## bignose1 (Mar 15, 2013)

The39thStep said:


>


 


Maybe does only one of those things in this case....


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## The Black Hand (Mar 20, 2013)

Just a thought like, why is there no discussion about the imminent visit to Sunderland of the EDL/Infidels on March 30th?


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## malatesta32 (Mar 21, 2013)

i think after the debacle in manchester - infighting at train station, pub and in the pen, schisms and fallouts - that the EDL is over. the leaders aint allowed to go on the demos and many have left it as a bad job. the infidels are leading a rigtward swing but really with such small numbers, the game is over in  a lot of peoples minds nationally. locally, antifascists will no doubt organise  -sunderland, brighton etc - but the EDL are knacked and the splinter factions tiny.


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## The39thStep (Mar 21, 2013)

The police have done a great job.


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## The39thStep (Mar 21, 2013)




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## CNT36 (Mar 21, 2013)

The Black Hand said:


> Just a thought like, why is there no discussion about the imminent visit to Sunderland of the EDL/Infidels on March 30th?


There is also this coming up in Plymouth. https://www.facebook.com/events/554678841219378/. There's already a counter demo being organised. A nightclub owner in an interview buried in a story about the future of the club joked he would give the building to charity or even have it turned into a mosque. The headline was all mosques and bollocks and the EDL along with assorted twats decided to feed the troll.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 21, 2013)

plod took a while to get a handle on em tho steps! leicester, stoke etc, they badly managed it and fucked up in bolton too. they seem to be centred in the NE with biggs and his crap post-NF group and a bunch of fuckbugling arsetrumpets aligned to the infidels.


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## intersol32 (Mar 21, 2013)

I always find the concept of Polish Nazis a bit of a strange one to grasp.

Especially as Hitler's appointed Gaulieter of 'The General Government Area' (as the Nazis termed the occupied part of Poland) said that Poles should "only be educated enough in order to read the road signs, so they don't get run over by our tanks".

Anyone proclaiming to be a fascist and a Polish patriot must be an absolute moron.


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## bignose1 (Mar 22, 2013)

intersol32 said:


> I always find the concept of Polish Nazis a bit of a strange one to grasp.
> 
> Especially as Hitler's appointed Gaulieter of 'The General Government Area' (as the Nazis termed the occupied part of Poland) said that Poles should "only be educated enough in order to read the road signs, so they don't get run over by our tanks".
> 
> Anyone proclaiming to be a fascist and a Polish patriot must be an absolute moron.


Even if Stalin was a bastard to them after Hitler invaded. the other half of Poland handed to them under the Pact and the decimation of their officer corps at Katyn ..Frank(ly)it can only be fcucking bunkers to parade about with Swastika flags....considering what the Nazis did to Poles...not Jews..but untermench Poles...per se. But what has logic got to do with it.


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## FNG (Mar 23, 2013)

The only supporting online evidence i can find of this position is in the form of a .DOC, but i seem to recall that after the Poles expelled their Ethnic German Population at the end of ww2 the state went into massive historical denial both about its occupation and the consequential backlash.

Therefore for the best part of 40+ years in Poland There was no official academic teaching or research published about the German occupation, or the little that was published dismissed as Communist Propaganda.

Whilst personal anecdotal evidence might have lingered,for most poles speaking openly about such wartime activities were discouraged.This vacuum allowed the far right to monopolise and mythologise and Sanitise the third reich.

Bluntly speaking to your average Pole Fascist, the holocaust was something that happened to other people.


----------



## FNG (Mar 23, 2013)

The best way to counter the rise of Polish fascist groups in Britain would be to form strong links with Polish Antifacist groups. From what i have observed in lincolnshire the more visable and Hardcore racist element are fairly quickly marginalised and ostracised within their own communities and any push should it be needed should come from within.


----------



## bignose1 (Mar 23, 2013)

FNG said:


> The best way to counter the rise of Polish fascist groups in Britain would be to form strong links with Polish Antifacist groups. From what i have observed in lincolnshire the more visable and Hardcore racist element are fairly quickly marginalised and ostracised within their own communities and any push should it be needed should come from within.


 
I know a few Polish antifash lads as I do in Serbia who did the No Retreat translation(see below)..very hard core group based around Novi Sad. There is a possibility that the Polish version will be coming out soon(totally bootleg)


----------



## ayatollah (Mar 23, 2013)

FNG said:


> The only supporting online evidence i can find of this position is in the form of a .DOC, but i seem to recall that after the Poles expelled their Ethnic German Population at the end of ww2 the state went into massive historical denial both about its occupation and the consequential backlash.
> 
> Therefore for the best part of 40+ years in Poland There was no official academic teaching or research published about the German occupation, or the little that was published dismissed as Communist Propaganda.
> 
> ...


 
Too true. the Polish Stalinists of course had a lot to want to "draw a veil" over vis a vis the WWII history of Poland. There have been  a whole number of levels of historical denial by Poles about both  the nature of the Polish state invaded and divided by the USSR and Nazi Germany , and the deep historical record of vicious anti semitism in Polish culture - encouraged and maintained by the active teaching of the Polish Catholic Church. Pre WWII Poland was essentially a neo-fascist state itself before the German/Soviet invasions, with anti Jewish pogroms quite common. Very little help/sancturay  was offered by the general Polish population to either Polish Jews or the other European Jews assembled on Nazi occupied Polish territory for extermination . The same can be said of the non-Jewish populations of France, Holland, Belgium of course, but there are plenty of accounts by Jews of the particular  relish that large segments of the Polish people, indoctrinated by a particularly vicious anti semitism for centuries by the Catholic Church, expressed as they watched their fate at Nazi hands.

The Polish Catholic Church was particularly keen to maintain the old Christian lie of the Jewish "blood sacrifice"and the "killers of Christ" slur. Anyone watching the very long ,powerful, but horrifying film about the Holocaust, "Shoah" will have witnessed the ghastly old Polish priest shamelessly continuing to express the ancient old "Blood Libel" fairytale. Long after the war there were actually a few well documented  dreadful spontaneous pogroms of quite large numbers of  Jews in in which ordinary Polish citizens simply took it upon themselves to murder dozens of local Jews in their towns, for no reason, other than they were Jews. So Fascism and anti semitism  itself has deep Polish roots. Given the large numbers of non-Jewish Poles that the German Nazis also exterminated and/or reduced to slavery it is certainly pretty ironic that some Poles , even if they are fascists, persist in adopting some of the symbolism and specific ideology of German  Nazism. But then Russian fascists do too - again choosing to remember only the German Nazi exterminations of  Jews (enthusiastically aided by local fascists particularly in the Ukraine and the Baltic states of course) , and conveniently forgetting the millions of non-Jewish citizens of the USSR  the Nazis also killed. Again, look at the astonishing Hitler worshipping Nazi goostepping   madness of the contemporary Golden Dawn Nazis in Greece today !  But then no-one ever suggested Fascism was a rational, coherent,  belief system ! It prides itself on NOT being so. FEEL the POWER of all that atavistic irrational hatred !

And some people think you can rationally DEBATE with these crazed psychopaths ! Better to stomp on them till they stop twitching - then you know they've got the point.


----------



## Limerick Red (Mar 23, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> very hard core group based around Novi Sad. View attachment 30509


Red Firm Vojvodina lads?


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## FNG (Mar 23, 2013)

http://old.squat.net/en/news/poland140103.html

It's an old article but worth a read.



> the end of 90s Anti-Fascist movement suffered serious split as many activists turned towards legal methods of fighting, obviously not understanding that police and state will never be on our side. Because of that militant movement in Poland was reduced to just 2 or 3 groups, as many people became disillusioned and lost hope for things to be better. Meanwhile nazis were not sleeping and after brief period of apathy they started attacking again. Bialystok was no exception. People active in anarchist and alternative movement were shocked, but resistance quickly started again. In 2000 Radical Anti-Fascist Action was reformed and started regular activity again. Our rule is "Wherever they go, we go as well". It means that we try to stop nazis in any place they may appear.


----------



## FNG (Mar 23, 2013)

Because i think there is a very real danger of demonisation it is probably best at this point to stress not all poles were anti Semitic Collaborators. 


> KP: During the war, the Polish government-in-exile eventually backed Źegota, an official branch of the underground, devoted to saving Jews. Your grandmother, Anna Sokołowska, sheltered several Jews during the war, and she paid for this with her life. It was standard practise for Nazis to shoot entire families of good samaritans.
> 
> AS: You see it was very difficult to save one person. These 6000 Polish people recognised by Yad Vashem as the righteous amongst nations – and Poland has the greatest portion of righteous gentiles – they really are heros. Because to hide a person, not for one day, but for weeks, months, even years sometimes, was an incredible achievement. They were like soldiers on the front. Even more so. Because on the front, you have weapons, you have orders, you have leaders. And these people had nobody. They lived under daily threat of death, together with their families. I’m very pleased that the Polish state has recognised these saviours, and given them the rights of veterans. It’s very important.


http://www.krakowpost.com/article/2116


----------



## The Black Hand (Mar 26, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i think after the debacle in manchester - infighting at train station, pub and in the pen, schisms and fallouts - that the EDL is over. the leaders aint allowed to go on the demos and many have left it as a bad job. the infidels are leading a rigtward swing but really with such small numbers, the game is over in a lot of peoples minds nationally. locally, antifascists will no doubt organise -sunderland, brighton etc - but the EDL are knacked and the splinter factions tiny.


 
That might well be the national overview, but up here in the North East they are still a problem. I would be happier if anti fascists could make it to the North East starting on March 30th. The local fascists took a coach to Manchester. Also, theres Newcastle on 25th May which is getting lots of publicity and here's  "DEMO ANNOUNCEMENT- BURNLEY  On the 22nd June the North West Frontline Firm will be hosting a demonstration to highlight the Islamification of Great Britain and the ever growing problem of mass immigration. Speakers : Paul Pitt (South East Alliance) Tony Curtis (English National Resistance) Jeff Marsh (Casuals United) North West Angel (Edl) Paul Mcginty (North West Frontline Firm) Mickey Bayliss (South West Alliance)".


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 26, 2013)

http://twitpic.com/ceg3d9

Tommy Robinson announces a demo in Paris.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 26, 2013)

the whole polish fash thing is complicated, there were collaborators and even polish people who fought on the same side as the nazis, as well as, as others have noted, sporadic pogroms of Jews (and probably roma as well) _after_ WWII had finished. However I don't think it can purely be traced back to historical roots, there have been neo-nazi "white power" and fascist movements developing in Serbia (where while there were a few limited instances of collaboration jews and serbs were given the same treatment on a systematic basis by the Ustashe, even the right-wing serbian organisation fought the nazis, and Hitler disliked the serbs due to their role in starting world war I) and in Israel - actual neo-nazism as well, not "just" fascism.

don't think it's a simple as "stupid people". it never is. i'd probably say that a lot of the rise of this type of stuff in seemingly anachronistic places is due to the failure and the delegitimisation of the state ideology under and then following the USSR, which came to be regarded by many as not only a repressive and brutal regime but also a foreign occupation as well. It's also easy for things like historical revisionism to take hold because of the whole idea of the USSR leading this "glorious struggle" against fascism which was heavily promoted as a state ideology, following its collapse nationalist politicians have capitalised on the fact that this is often completely delegitimised.

And of course those same politicians have been shown to be completely corrupt, self-serving etc and unfortunately "the left" provides no answers and itself is often pretty nationalistic, only towards russia


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 26, 2013)

Lletsa said a lot of interesting stuff about the growth of fascism in the former soviet block a while ago and I think seventh bullet knows a lot about this type of thing as well.


----------



## Fingers (Mar 27, 2013)

The MfE Kappa gerbils have been threatening journos at the Argus

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...r-england-threaten-brighton-argus-journalists


----------



## manny-p (Apr 1, 2013)

The link does not work fingers


----------



## Inigo Montoya (Apr 2, 2013)

Video, pictures and discusison of recent Antifa vs. Fash hooligan fighting within the same club in Warsaw.

https://www.facebook.com/afaireland/posts/490360447685027


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 6, 2013)

I understand that nationally the edl are fucked, but my daughter keeps telling me that there appears to be a recruitment drive going on . A number of her friends have declared that hey have joined the edl in recent days( this has led her to have massive rows and bust ups), this is in reading, which, up to now has had no real edl presence at all.
 Purely anecdotal, and may signify nothing at all.
Apparently, there is a social club down near the old bus station, which has .become a haunt for them.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 7, 2013)

as far as the EDL is concerned tommy got out to find kkkev had run it into the ground and the cambirdge demo of 20 was embarassing. manchester got 350 but from all different groups. there are many factions. SDL are tiny and BNP/NF, NEI and NPF (exNF) in the NE ate pretty active, NWI and the newly made up NWFF are the same thing. CXF irrelevant. you have the EVF, ENA and SEA in midlands and SE who are active but small. the casuals are fuck all. there are a couple of 'rogue' EDL groups who will stand with the various groupuscules. EDL have lost a lot of cred and have achieved nothing so apart from a few 'chav scrotes' most have walked away as it is boring now . As a political entity EDL is over but the other groups have swung more rightwards and are openly racist. where abouts is yr daughter speaking of?


----------



## tony.c (Apr 7, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> barney_pig said:
> 
> 
> > this is in reading
> ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 7, 2013)

im sorry i thought it said reading as in reading a book!


----------



## BlackArab (Apr 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> im sorry i thought it said reading as in reading a book!


 
Made the same mistake when I saw there was film called 'Burn After Reading', confused me for a while.


----------



## Fingers (Apr 10, 2013)

The little fella has been lifted by plod.... again

Tommy Robinson EDL @EDLTrobinson 58s
After days of death threats on twitter gangs of Muslims targeted my family. What did the police do? Arrest us? Bedfordshire police ???????


'Support' group claim he was attacked by a hoard of armed muslamics and got himself arrested


----------



## Fingers (Apr 10, 2013)

*Tommy Robinson EDL @EDLTrobinson 44s
I've just been released after 30 hours in custody! Armed Muslim gang come to my family's house , trouble breaks out, only 3 arrested are us!*


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 10, 2013)

BlackArab said:


> Made the same mistake when I saw there was film called 'Burn After Reading', confused me for a while.


wondering which is worse, the film or the town?


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 10, 2013)

Fucking idiot gets nicked more than the pick and mix from my local cinema.


----------



## laptop (Apr 10, 2013)

Fingers said:


> 'Support' group claim he was attacked by a hoard of armed muslamics


 
Shhh! No-one's supposed to know we're hoarding hordes for a rainy day!


----------



## Nigel (Apr 10, 2013)

Anyone know anything about Oxford EDL Demo.
Apparentely there trying to build up support after recent trials involving Pakistani men and prostitution of under age girls.
The people who would be interested in supporting this put on some sort of a show at the last Cowley Road festival after confrontation (storm in a teacup)between Afro Carribean and Asian youth. But they got penned in The Corridor Pub in Cowley Road.

Anyone heard of them being involved in any activity possibly on 4th May?
http://englishdefenceleague.org/divisions/viewgroup/84-oxford


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 11, 2013)

http://twitpic.com/cilg89

update on the real reason Tommy got lifted again.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 12, 2013)

Plymouth tomorrow. http://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=154004584667896&_mn_=11&ref=stream&refid=46     Hoping to get up at some point.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 15, 2013)

piss poor plymouth patriots piss-up! 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/rss/1064-edl-plymouth-demo-attracts-eight-racists


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 15, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> piss poor plymouth patriots piss-up!
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/rss/1064-edl-plymouth-demo-attracts-eight-racists


When I got there everyone was gone. They're not EDL though they're pretty adamant about that. Some of the time.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 15, 2013)

Plymouth Division said:
			
		

> Good morning Infidels and Angels. The meeting place for today is THE FIRKIN DOGHOUSE, UNION STREET. People can arrive there from 11am.
> Please all those who want to attend be on your best behavior. I know we shouldn't have to remind you but ...
> The landlady has been good enough to let us have full use of the pub all day until closing. Respect others around you as members of the public will still have use of the pub too.
> Have a good journey and be safe traveling to and from the demo and we will see you all tomorrow From Plymouth Division Admins. NSE


 
I won't be drinking at the doghouse.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 15, 2013)

so its the new SW infidels or SW Alliance. still the same bellends but with a different name. like NWI and NWFF. same 3 blokes.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> I won't be drinking at the doghouse.


Is that the one with the last surviving wimpy bar in a pub? That certainly looks like the place i was drinking in when i spotted it down there.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 15, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Is that the one with the last surviving wimpy bar in a pub? That certainly looks like the place i was drinking in when i spotted it down there.


No I don't think so. I work in Plymouth but don't know it that well. There used to be one in a bowling alley but not there.


----------



## chilango (Apr 15, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> I understand that nationally the edl are fucked, but my daughter keeps telling me that there appears to be a recruitment drive going on . A number of her friends have declared that hey have joined the edl in recent days( this has led her to have massive rows and bust ups), this is in reading, which, up to now has had no real edl presence at all.
> Purely anecdotal, and may signify nothing at all.
> Apparently, there is a social club down near the old bus station, which has .become a haunt for them.



Really?

Let me know if you hear owt else.

Haven't seen/heard anything myself but I'll keep my eyes peeled.

A few years back there was a fair bit of EDL graffiti round the train station.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2013)

Just worked it where it was:






vs


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 15, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Just worked it where it was:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know JSV better. There's no wimpy now. Next time I go in probably tomorrow I'll ask.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2013)

Used to be on the right end of the bar as you come in the door, where the bar bends. Here is past ref to it.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 15, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Just worked it where it was:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've just had independent verification there was a wimpy there.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> I've just had independent verification there was a wimpy there.


I knew it!


----------



## The Black Hand (Apr 15, 2013)

Some analysis about fighting fascism, or not, in the North East, and especially Sunderland, (as if you're bothered); http://neanarchists.com/mar30overview.html http://neanarchists.com/mar30analysis.html


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 15, 2013)

Are there any wimpey bars in pubs up there mr hand?


----------



## The Black Hand (Apr 15, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Are there any wimpey bars in pubs up there mr hand?


----------



## chilango (Apr 15, 2013)

http://www.wimpy.uk.com/restaurants.asp


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 15, 2013)

chilango said:


> Really?
> 
> Let me know if you hear owt else.
> 
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 15, 2013)

the lesser spotted wimpy is now almost solely found in Megabowl outlets where the lane staff double as cooks. And its still shit.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> the lesser spotted wimpy is now almost solely found in Megabowl outlets where the lane staff double as cooks. And its still shit.


wimpy thread required!!!


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 17, 2013)

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Eng...tory-18710197-detail/story.html#axzz2QXu80KP7

Anyone find this article kind of disturbing. The only picture appears to be of the non EDL side of the street and you have to get around halfway through the article before there is any criticism of the EDL.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 17, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Eng...tory-18710197-detail/story.html#axzz2QXu80KP7
> 
> Anyone find this article kind of disturbing. The only picture appears to be of the non EDL side of the street and you have to get around halfway through the article before there is any criticism of the EDL.


 
it may sound odd but if they dont get their photos or names in the paper or hope not hate they aint happy. the whole thing is a vanity project and a feeble excuse for a ruck - that only happens when they fight themselves. what have they got to show for 4 years bellending about the country apart from some clippings? they have achieved fuck all.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 17, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> it may sound odd but if they dont get their photos or names in the paper or hope not hate they aint happy. the whole thing is a vanity project and a feeble excuse for a ruck - that only happens when they fight themselves. what have they got to show for 4 years bellending about the country apart from some clippings? they have achieved fuck all.


I got the link from the Plymouth EDL page which suggests they are pretty proud pf it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 17, 2013)

yeah, this is what they show their twatty mates in the pub. but as far as political achievement is concerned? fuck all!


----------



## Fingers (Apr 17, 2013)

Well Kev





malatesta32 said:


> yeah, this is what they show their twatty mates in the pub. but as far as political achievement is concerned? fuck all!


There was also the opinions section of the paper who painted them as a bunch of cunts.  This it was in the same issue/same day


----------



## Fingers (Apr 17, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> it may sound odd but if they dont get their photos or names in the paper or hope not hate they aint happy.


 
Kevin Smith ain't happy after getting himself in Derek Fender corner for trying and failing to bed a troll behind his fiance's back.

He is spitting feathers by all accounts, so is she

http://www.edlnews.co.uk/index.php/...1066-kevin-smith-tries-to-pimp-out-his-missus


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 18, 2013)

just hilarious! good old EDL News!


----------



## Peter Quistgard (Apr 18, 2013)

Would you?


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 19, 2013)

big kev - the walrus of love.


----------



## bignose1 (Apr 20, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> big kev - the walrus of love.


Seal-ed with a kiss...


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 20, 2013)

uuuuuuurgh!


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 21, 2013)

*HOPE not hate @hopenothate 6m
Police have made a few arrests and #SEA and #EDL thugs have lost their flags and had paint thrown over them #Brighton*


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 21, 2013)

more here

http://www.sussex.police.uk/whats-happening/live-updates-march-for-england/

if anyone cares or something.


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2013)

Unbelievable amounts of police in Brighton.


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 21, 2013)

who cares


----------



## treelover (Apr 21, 2013)

Well, Maletesa thinks that MFE/EDL all look like 'they could be on "Jeremy Kyle'' so can't be much of a threat


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 21, 2013)

treelover said:


> Well, Maletesa thinks that MFE/EDL all look like 'they could be on "Jeremy Kyle'' so can't be much of a threat


oh dear


----------



## treelover (Apr 21, 2013)

Apparently, its the 'tattoos' which are the giveaway...


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 21, 2013)

treelover said:


> Apparently, its the 'tattoos' which are the giveaway...


Even Samantha Cameron has a tattoo. It's that mainstream.


(ETA: Not "ill fitting suits" then??)


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 23, 2013)

i have a few too but it is the style, content and position that determine their quality. 
1/ wrong:


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 23, 2013)

2/ right!


----------



## elbows (Apr 30, 2013)

I suspect this may end up with its own thread but I'll put it here for a start:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22344054



> Six men from Birmingham have pleaded guilty to planning a terrorist attack on an English Defence League rally.


 
Geniuses:



> The group took a homemade bomb to an EDL rally in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, but arrived after the event had ended.


 
Duh.


----------



## Streathamite (Apr 30, 2013)

Even better;


> They were caught after their car was stopped for having no insurance.


Oh dear!


----------



## elbows (Apr 30, 2013)

Ah yes, the article got a lot longer since I first linked to it. The event ended early because the EDL ran out of speakers.

Allah willing your murderous plots will be thwarted by traffic violations. Like those car bombs that were towed away for parking violations! The idiocy of many of the would-be terrorists has done much to keep the world safe in the last decade+


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Apr 30, 2013)

elbows said:


> Ah yes, the article got a lot longer since I first linked to it. The event ended early because the EDL ran out of speakers.


 
Allah willing your murderous plots will be thwarted by idiots who have so little to say that they run out of words before the first can of Stella got thrown


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 30, 2013)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...n-and-bomb-attack-on-far-right-EDL-rally.html

time for the far right 'victimhood' whining.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 30, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...n-and-bomb-attack-on-far-right-EDL-rally.html
> 
> time for the far right 'victimhood' whining.


 
Not surprising really if you consider that a group of fanatics set out to kill and maim some of them. The EDl deserve all the shoeing and booing they get but what this group from Birmingham set out to do is evil.
It not only plays into the hands of the right but also endangers everyone. They are a bigger threat than the EDL ever will be.


----------



## kenny g (Apr 30, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Not surprising really if you consider that a group of fanatics set out to kill and maim some of them. The EDl deserve all the shoeing and booing they get but what this group from Birmingham set out to do is evil.
> It not only plays into the hands of the right but also endangers everyone. They are a bigger threat than the EDL ever will be.


 
What about what that twat in Norway did?


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 1, 2013)

kenny g said:


> What about what that twat in Norway did?


 
Interesting point, but the fascist lone wolf attacks seem to be few and far between in the UK. When was the last one? Was it Copeland? Now compare that to the amount of people prepared to participate in terrorist acts who are Islamists. Having said that, what is deemed by the security services to be the more dangerous terrorist threat in the UK?

Bear in mind that the twat in Norway acted alone but the group from Birmingham were 6 people with links to another 6 in Luton who were also planning attacks. I see no point in playing this down


----------



## kenny g (May 1, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Interesting point, but the fascist lone wolf attacks seem to be few and far between in the UK. When was the last one? Was it Copeland? Now compare that to the amount of people prepared to participate in terrorist acts who are Islamists. Having said that, what is deemed by the security services to be the more dangerous terrorist threat in the UK?
> 
> Bear in mind that the twat in Norway acted alone but the group from Birmingham were 6 people with links to another 6 in Luton who were also planning attacks. I see no point in playing this down


 
I remember a few rightists have been arrested with explosive cache's post couldn't Cope land.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 2, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Interesting point, but the fascist lone wolf attacks seem to be few and far between in the UK. When was the last one? Was it Copeland? Now compare that to the amount of people prepared to participate in terrorist acts who are Islamists. Having said that, what is deemed by the security services to be the more dangerous terrorist threat in the UK?
> 
> Bear in mind that the twat in Norway acted alone but the group from Birmingham were 6 people with links to another 6 in Luton who were also planning attacks. I see no point in playing this down


 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/bombs-bnp-splits-the-edl/


----------



## The39thStep (May 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Apparently, its the 'tattoos' which are the giveaway...


 
and dental hygiene apparently, oh and pasty facedness


----------



## Dogsauce (May 2, 2013)

EDL mobilising in Leeds this weekend, protesting against a new mosque (how this fits with their objective of only opposing 'extreme Islam' is anybody's guess).

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co....-pub-sparks-far-right-rally-updated-1-5634452


----------



## malatesta32 (May 4, 2013)

anyone up at leeds today? EDL, tiny amount of CXF, NWI and NEI are going. 100 tops maybe?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 4, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> They are a bigger threat than the EDL ever will be.



Inept terrorists are only a danger to themselves. 

Anyway, Islamists and the EDL are two sides of the same coin.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 4, 2013)

http://www.londonnewspictures.co.uk/?G_ID=G0000j_nx7UW2Kzc


----------



## cdg (May 4, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.londonnewspictures.co.uk/?G_ID=G0000j_nx7UW2Kzc


 
Fucking Phil Mitchell, little cunt! 

Picture no. 10 you can see his little turtle head poking out between edl steward and police.


----------



## albionism (May 5, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.londonnewspictures.co.uk/?G_ID=G0000j_nx7UW2Kzc


pic #8  "Pride of Britain".. Yeah right


----------



## audiotech (May 5, 2013)




----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2013)

vredict on yesterdays leeds demo - 'a waste of time.' they got pissed and rowdy with cops. well done.
http://twitpic.com/co7nge


----------



## malatesta32 (May 6, 2013)

anyone else feel that the EDL is somewhat over? 
http://leeds.tab.co.uk/2013/05/05/edl-in-leeds/


----------



## butchersapron (May 6, 2013)

malatesta32 said:
			
		

> anyone else feel that the EDL is somewhat over?
> http://leeds.tab.co.uk/2013/05/05/edl-in-leeds/



I almost hope not after reading that shite.


----------



## Ranbay (May 6, 2013)

Tommy up tomorrow on the mortgage fraud thingy etc.


----------



## frogwoman (May 6, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> anyone else feel that the EDL is somewhat over?
> http://leeds.tab.co.uk/2013/05/05/edl-in-leeds/


 
that's a terrible article full of classist shit.

and also what was the point of giving them a platform by interviewing them? why confirm their supporters views about their opponents?



> There’s an abandoned pub in Moortown – a small civil parish five miles north of Leeds – which a charity wants to convert into a multi-faith community centre.
> A mob of working-class whites aren’t happy with this, and for the past month have been kicking up a major fuss, both on and offline, trying to prevent it from happening.
> The problem? The charity is the UK Islamic Mission, and most of their members aren’t white.


 
i would be interested to know what the uk islamic mission are. i suspect that if I lived there I may not be so happy about it myself.

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?page=86

this isn't to defend the edl or anything like that but that article is a laughable load of shite.


----------



## Nice one (May 6, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> that's a terrible article full of classist shit.
> 
> and also what was the point of giving them a platform by interviewing them? why confirm their supporters views about their opponents?
> 
> ...


 
local opposition to the proposed development long before edl jumped on the bandwagon. The area has "longstanding Jewish and roman catholic communities, with schools and places of worship for both these groups, and also a Sikh community" They say there is about 5 muslim households on the estate where the centre will be, so you can see how the edl would make political capital out of the situation (regardless of what they did on the day) - only ones taken action and listening to the views of the local community.

That said the tab is the student paper aimed at students so knocking the white working class must be par for the course.


----------



## frogwoman (May 6, 2013)

To be honest from the sounds of the article I posted a lot of Muslims would probably oppose the development as well. Its not a charity, its a religious organisation trying to preach its own reactionary interpretation of Islam.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 6, 2013)

dunno if you can see this. rejection of EDL by local community:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...37870051.46403.145019135549768&type=1&theater

and 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/rss/1088-edl-leeds-demo-turns-into-violent-drunken-fiasco


----------



## elbows (May 6, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Interesting point, but the fascist lone wolf attacks seem to be few and far between in the UK. When was the last one? Was it Copeland? Now compare that to the amount of people prepared to participate in terrorist acts who are Islamists. Having said that, what is deemed by the security services to be the more dangerous terrorist threat in the UK?
> 
> Bear in mind that the twat in Norway acted alone but the group from Birmingham were 6 people with links to another 6 in Luton who were also planning attacks. I see no point in playing this down


 
Not trying to counter your point exactly, but rather add another angle to it.

There were the couple of idiots who were convicted of trying to blow up a mosque by running a pipe from a gas main to the building. The forensic trail they left included footprints in the snow.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-16042201
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-16098897


----------



## FNG (May 6, 2013)

Do you reckon Zia Ul Huq is his real name or one he has appropriated from another of his role models. Either way its a name Progressives should be wary of.


Spoiler



Bhutto's successor, dictator General Mohammed Zia ul-Haq, went even further. He replaced Pakistan's South Asian identity (cultural, social, educational and its institutions) with Arabization and Wahhabism (the radical Saudi version of Sunni Islam). To achieve this quickly, he made Arabic studies mandatory and had television and radio newscasts produced in Arabic. He introduced an Islamic justice system by setting up a federal _sharia_ court to try cases as per the Qur'an. He prescribed amputations for robbery and theft, and flogging and stoning death for adultery. He also banished liquor, cabarets, clubs and non-Islamic dress. Under his _chadar aur char diwari_ (the veil and four walls) policy, women were required to discard their South Asian dress, including the highly popular sari, in favour of top-to-toe Arabic chadors, and had to stay behind four walls of the home. Blasphemy against Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was punishable by death.The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan only served to speed up the Arabization of Pakistan. Zia's Saudi friends as well as the CIA showered with him petro dollars to set up _madrassas_ (Islamic religious seminaries) and mosques staffed by Arabic Imams to train die-hard _mujahedeen_ to fight with and drive out the Soviets.

It was Gen. Zia's obsession to Arabize Pakistan that turned this culturally rich South Asian country into a virtual Islamic theocracy, allegedly a safe haven for global terror networks – from al-Qaeda to the Taliban, to the homegrown Tehrik-e-Taliban and sundry _lashkars_ (militias) – plus the _jihadist_-churning factory with its network of more than 18,000 madrassas. Meanwhile, the country's entrenched ruling elites were gloating over Pakistan becoming “Fortress Islam”, complete with the Islamic nuclear bomb. Not surprisingly, ethnic cleansing, forced conversion and migration drastically reduced its non-Muslim minorities (Hindus and Sikhs) from 20% (1947) to barely 1% (present).


----------



## FNG (May 7, 2013)

very good article here on womens movements in pakistan,the policy of veil and four walls, and community resistance in the form of Thappa Brigades


Spoiler



Women came to the foreground around 2001. Stories differ on when and how women became

involved, but the most plausible seems to be that related by an old man who recalls that in one

Okara village, upon hearing that two children had been killed, women did not stop to inquire

whose children and ran to their rescue, picking up whatever came to hand, including thappas.

They seriously damaged the police van and attacked policemen who, unwilling to fight the

women, ran away. This initial success galvanized further and more prominent and systematic

activism on the part of the women with the full support of male activists (mostly immediate

relatives). In different villages ‘thappa brigades’ were formed and women successfully

intervened on several occasions in direct confrontation with the authorities. They prevented state

officials from removing wood from their lands, and on two occasions prevented the confiscation

of their harvests. The women’s “thappa brigade” caught the public imagination so that the thappa

metamorphosed from a symbol of women’s domesticated roles to a signifier of their activism

and, as the only ‘weapon’ ever wielded by the peasants, a symbol for the entire movement


http://www.wemc.com.hk/web/rf/Shaheed_Womens_movement_final_draft_FS.pdf


----------



## Dynamo (May 7, 2013)

I suppose EDL watch was set up by the same people who have been trying to convince us for the past 15 years that Islamic terrorism doesn't not exist and that every so called Islamic terrorist attack is a conspiracy carried out by of MI5, the CIA, Mossad and the Iluminati. This video is interesting as it documents one of the first Islamic terrorist attacks against an American target which occurred in 1983 in Lebanon. As for the EDL I say don't shoot the messenger.


----------



## Ranbay (May 7, 2013)

Welcome to the internets


----------



## laptop (May 7, 2013)

This is going to go really, really well.

Shame it's not possible to fork a thread...


----------



## bignose1 (May 15, 2013)

Didnt want new thread so plonked on here....a bit of nostalgia..maybe Redstorm woild like to use on Anti-Fascist archive.


----------



## Corax (May 15, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> anyone else feel that the EDL is somewhat over?
> http://leeds.tab.co.uk/2013/05/05/edl-in-leeds/


 


> They had dogs on leashes, synchronised chants, a plethora of...


 
On *leashes* you say?  Well, that's a bloody outrage and no mistake.


----------



## krink (May 15, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Didnt want new thread so plonked on here....a bit of nostalgia..maybe Redstorm woild like to use on Anti-Fascist archive.


is it me or are the pics tiny?


----------



## bignose1 (May 15, 2013)

I sent them via my mobile (as my lappy has a virus) (behave) which has obviously made them diddy..Ill rectify later.


----------



## bignose1 (May 15, 2013)

Dat frigging Ukash frigger


----------



## bignose1 (May 15, 2013)

It was down to some iffy music download site your honour.....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 22, 2013)

EDL Facebook page currently getting >2 likes/second - seen as response to this afternoon's events 

facebook chatter suggests right wing planning to hit woolwich, newham, tower hamlets

EDL gathering in Great Harry Wetherspoons in Woolwich. Pls RT.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 22, 2013)

I imagine the cops are going to be jumpy as fuck tonight and quite possibly not in the mood for tolerating edl shennagins...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 22, 2013)

Apparently, EDL kicking off with plod on Woolwich New Rd.


----------



## Corax (May 22, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:
			
		

> Apparently, EDL kicking off with plod on Woolwich New Rd.



In true solidarity with the security forces.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 22, 2013)

Naturally, EDL leadership will condemn all the violence.


----------



## krink (May 22, 2013)

well, newcastle on saturday just got a lot more interesting didn't it? anyone coming?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 23, 2013)

Sheer delight

http://twitpic.com/cshz34


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 23, 2013)

Pretty good article, collating some of the hatred.

http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/post/51092450285/man-killed-in-horrible-london-machete-attack-racist


----------



## butchersapron (May 23, 2013)

Please tell me that's not your site. If it is, are you really seriously sceptical of whether the attack was carried out by Islamists?


----------



## Streathamite (May 23, 2013)

krink said:


> well, newcastle on saturday just got a lot more interesting didn't it? anyone coming?


I can't, but I really wish I could.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 23, 2013)

me neither, am having to pull back on activities at the moment. its gonna be interesting though.


----------



## Limerick Red (May 23, 2013)

Tommy has called a demo for Downing street on Monday!


----------



## butchersapron (May 23, 2013)

Come on everyone blow on the embers - we might get the glory days back. The last day didn't give only the edl a new lease of life.


----------



## CNT36 (May 23, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Tommy has called a demo for Downing street on Monday!


He's just getting overexcited. Hide the smarties.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 24, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2013/may/23/english-defence-league-woolwich-video

I had to chuckle at plod falling into the shrubbery.


----------



## The39thStep (May 24, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Pretty good article, collating some of the hatred.
> 
> http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/post/51092450285/man-killed-in-horrible-london-machete-attack-racist


 
Actually piss poor article Gives the impression that the Woolwich murder is just convenient bait to post up nasty Facebook posts


----------



## The39thStep (May 24, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2013/may/23/english-defence-league-woolwich-video
> 
> I had to chuckle at plod falling into the shrubbery.


 
Had to chuckle at the Police doing physical force anti fascism whilst the real anti fascists are on the internet


----------



## malatesta32 (May 24, 2013)

i thought that the consensus on U75 was that physical force antifascism was simply passe now?


----------



## bignose1 (May 24, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2013/may/23/english-defence-league-woolwich-video
> 
> I had to chuckle at plod falling into the shrubbery.


It was hardly beechers brook...however she was probably feeling edgey..!


----------



## Red Storm (May 24, 2013)

.


----------



## laptop (May 24, 2013)

East London Mosque is reported warning attendees about an EDL do in Whitechapel, possibly today. Has an attendee misunderstood?


----------



## Ranbay (May 24, 2013)

Monday they will be in London from what i have seen.


----------



## laptop (May 24, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Monday they will be in London from what i have seen.


 
But that's Tommy threatening to go to Downing Street, yes?


----------



## Ranbay (May 24, 2013)

Not sure, just seen some stuff on twitter about London and monday, not what tha plans are.


----------



## butchersapron (May 24, 2013)

They're going to disrupt friday prayers somewhere on monday.


----------



## laptop (May 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> They're going to disrupt friday prayers somewhere on monday.


----------



## sim667 (May 24, 2013)

laptop said:


> But that's Tommy threatening to go to Downing Street, yes?


 
He's going to try and use a fake ID card to get in.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 24, 2013)

they reckon they are demoing in newcastle tomorrow - which has been planned for a wee while - then do downing street on monday. they may not have the numbers for both and anyway, mr dave is out on monday.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 24, 2013)

FYO: Taken from North East EDL site:

EDL NATIONAL DEMONSTRATION DETAILS - NEWCASTLE:

Saturday May 25th

*MUSTER POINT:
We have secured 2 pubs for us to meet prior to the demo.
[1] Raffertys - 29-33 Pink lane - NE1 5DW
[2] Gotham Town - Neville St - NE1 5DF*
Both pubs are opposite Newcastle central station and very close to each other

TRAVEL:
COACH/MINIBUS/CAR - Meet at 'Birtley services' on the 'A1' where you will be given a police escort direct to the muster point parking.
(NOTE: Police escort will be leaving services at 10.30 and 11.30 so anyone arriving after 11.30 will have to make their own way to Newcastle central station where police will direct you to the parking area.)
CAR (Local) - Park as close to Newcastle central station as possible.
TRAIN/METRO - Newcastle central station

DEMONSTRATION:
We will start our march at 1.30 which will take us through the city centre.

Neville street
Grainger street
Grey street
Mosley street
Groat market onto the Bigg market

*
Rafferty's: 0191 232 3269

Gotham Town: 0191 233 1471*


----------



## Citizen66 (May 24, 2013)

You can also congratulate them on their fash support on facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Raffertys-Bar/286151224852147?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/gothamtown


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 24, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/gothamtown


I think someone's message was deleted


----------



## Corax (May 24, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2013/may/23/english-defence-league-woolwich-video
> 
> I had to chuckle at plod falling into the shrubbery.


Worst. Baton-charge. Ever.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 24, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I think someone's message was deleted



Let them know how you feel on the review sites, beerintheevening etc.


----------



## bignose1 (May 25, 2013)

EDL in Manchester tomorrow...Piccadily..???


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

was a rumour 11am but there is also newcastle today. thin spread of EDL methinks. maybe worth a trip with the camera to see what they can muster mate!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/events/504830659564212/504843816229563/?notif_t=plan_mall_activity


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

spoofing mr tommy on the wireless:


article: 
http://blazingcatfur.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/jim-richards-got-punked-by-tommy.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: blogspot/NWSav (Blazing Cat Fur)


----------



## thriller (May 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> spoofing mr tommy on the wireless:
> 
> 
> article:
> http://blazingcatfur.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/jim-richards-got-punked-by-tommy.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: blogspot/NWSav (Blazing Cat Fur)




fucking loved that.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

most amusing i must say. if it kicks off in any way in newcastle today it will look very bad in relation to them 'supporting' the murdered soldier.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

perhaps 1,000 in newcastle and it is kicking off. less than hundred in manchester.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 25, 2013)

How do you manage to be two places at once?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

who me? i have an extensive intell set up - project FACEBOOK (and good mates!).


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

big kick off in geordie toon. the rigby family must be so pleased they have these guys supporting them. PR disaster!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

and small bit of argy bargy in sheff!


----------



## renegadechicken (May 25, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/gothamtown


 
They deleted my comments and blocked me


----------



## Citizen66 (May 25, 2013)

BNP apparently there, handing out leaflets at the monument.


----------



## Ranbay (May 25, 2013)

http://twitpic.com/ct34qf


----------



## keybored (May 25, 2013)

RIP SALMON


----------



## treelover (May 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> and small bit of argy bargy in sheff!


 
right now?


----------



## Fingers (May 25, 2013)

This went out live on Canadian radio last night


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-...-protesters-attempt-to-intercept-march_208411


----------



## Geri (May 25, 2013)

EDL spotted in Kingswood near Bristol today.


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 25, 2013)

Predictably, their numbers have spiked.


----------



## ddraig (May 25, 2013)

pic of NF in Swansea https://twitter.com/ForzaSwansea/status/338275801814417408


----------



## BlackArab (May 25, 2013)

Geri said:


> EDL spotted in Kingswood near Bristol today.


 

Tweet an hour ago says there are some in St George heading for Lawrence Hill. 3 Police vans monitoring.


----------



## Geri (May 25, 2013)

BlackArab said:


> Tweet an hour ago says there are some in St George heading for Lawrence Hill. 3 Police vans monitoring.


 
Yeah they are at the Worlds End now. I heard the same about the police.


----------



## Fingers (May 25, 2013)

1500 in total according to police, far less than the EDL were hoping to attract.  5000 Muslims gathered to say prayers for the solder in Morden this morning


----------



## Corax (May 25, 2013)

Fingers said:


> 1500 in total according to police, far less than the EDL were hoping to attract. *5000 Muslims gathered to say prayers for the solder in Morden this morning*


Wonder if that'll make front page of the Express?


----------



## BlackArab (May 25, 2013)

Geri said:


> Yeah they are at the Worlds End now. I heard the same about the police.


 

just had a msg saying they are at the top of Church Rd and antis gathering in that area.


----------



## Geri (May 25, 2013)

BlackArab said:


> just had a msg saying they are at the top of Church Rd and antis gathering in that area.


 
Yeah, some people I know have gone over. I can hear the helicopter as well.


----------



## treelover (May 25, 2013)

Fingers said:


> 1500 in total according to police, far less than the EDL were hoping to attract. 5000 Muslims gathered to say prayers for the solder in Morden this morning


 

that's a fair bit how can you equate it with people going to the Mosque, ridiculous, this thread....

oh and they done the thing they haven't in the past, kept it peaceful, they will grow now.


----------



## ddraig (May 25, 2013)

treelover said:


> that's a fair bit how can you equate it with people going to the Mosque, ridiculous, this thread....
> 
> oh and they done the thing they haven't in the past, kept it peaceful, they will grow now.


wtf u on about now?

you don't think it is comment worthy for media to not report 5000 Muslims praying for the soldier?


----------



## treelover (May 25, 2013)

missed the bit about them praying for the soldier, EDL numbering over 2000 is news as well


btw, this time they were allowed to march through the town, does anyone know how the general public responded to them.


----------



## ddraig (May 25, 2013)

treelover said:


> missed the bit about them praying for the soldier, EDL numbering over 2000 is news as well


it is in the post you quoted ffs! don't you read your sources??


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 25, 2013)

Any info on what happened in Sheffield malatesta32? A few people I know were probably there, none of whom could handle themselves if it got nasty  - hope they're alright


----------



## Fingers (May 25, 2013)

treelover said:


> that's a fair bit how can you equate it with people going to the Mosque, ridiculous, this thread....
> 
> oh and they done the thing they haven't in the past, kept it peaceful, they will grow now.


Do I have to explain it to you?


----------



## bingiman (May 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> spoofing mr tommy on the wireless:
> 
> 
> article:
> http://blazingcatfur.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/jim-richards-got-punked-by-tommy.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: blogspot/NWSav (Blazing Cat Fur)





that was very funny


----------



## Tom A (May 25, 2013)

Manc was a bit of a damp squib as far as the UAF demo was concerned, we followed the EDL from Piccadilly Gardens to the war memorial at St Peter's Square, shouting "Nazi scum" and suchlike at them whilst they lay in their protective cocoon of police lines. The EDL then lay tributes to Lee Rigby, then dispersed, and ended up in wondering around the city centre and various drinking establishments for a while. The UAF then went back to Piccadilly Gardens for a small rally, where I learnt that two of the leading UAF supporters had gone to the war memorial first, but were moved on physically by the police, allowing the EDL to march, although earlier on GMP had supposedly said it would have been a static demo by the EDL.

About 60-80 UAF at its height and a similar number of EDL. The EDL at least were forced to rely on the police for protection, and the police lines made them barley visible at times, but all the same, the was no direct confrontation, and they were allowed to wander around the city unharassed afterwards.

Someone I know on the UAF demo told me that in Liverpool (where an independent anti-fascist group holds the sway rather than UAF), the would gotten the shit kicked out of them, and I for one hope that Manchester takes a leaf out of the book of our Scouse comrades in that regard. We used to have Manchester Anti-Fascist Alliance, but that got wound down a year or two ago, it would be good to see something similar get off the ground again.


----------



## gawkrodger (May 25, 2013)

Some of them getting a bit of a twatting in Bristol from the old bill

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151920064882004


----------



## Ranbay (May 25, 2013)

more stuff on his profile


----------



## gawkrodger (May 25, 2013)

oh and they did some flash demo in Wolves yesterday (wondered why there were so many cop vans on the side of the Brum New Road)

They blocked the brum new road which I'm sure made them very popular

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2013/05/25/dozens-of-edl-supporters-in-wolverhampton-protest/


----------



## Favelado (May 25, 2013)

You'll be sad to hear that EDL demonstrations have made it on to the Spanish national news. However, you'll be delighted to hear that they were described as "neo-nazis", "racist" and "Islamophobic" to this foreign audience. They have not been portrayed as a group with a legitimate agenda.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

bristol chaos: 
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Riot-p...ts-St-George/story-19089086-detail/story.html


----------



## Citizen66 (May 25, 2013)

Thank god for that. At least we can sleep safe in the knowledge that the Spanish won't be joining their ranks.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 25, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> Some of them getting a bit of a twatting in Bristol from the old bill
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151920064882004


 
Any idea where that is? Is it a mosque or a community centre or something? It looks like someone's back garden


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> bristol chaos:
> http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Riot-p...ts-St-George/story-19089086-detail/story.html


 
Any info on what went off in Sheffield Malatesta?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

altogether now AH!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151920056082004&set=vb.537842003&type=2&theater


----------



## Favelado (May 25, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Thank god for that. At least we can sleep safe in the knowledge that the Spanish won't be joining their ranks.


 
Well, I know it's not important in one sense but it would be bad if they were getting neutral or positive coverage internationally, or being given a "fair hearing". It's one more country where they will be labelled evil cunts.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 25, 2013)

I doubt they'd get much applause in Spain with Franco still being in living memory.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

it looked like some EDL in a pub on the corner of a square and some antifascists and onlookers on the other side. i cant remember where i saw this. i have been switching thru websites all day. if you aint heard nothing, i doubt much happened.


----------



## weepiper (May 25, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Any idea where that is? Is it a mosque or a community centre or something? It looks like someone's back garden


 

It's the back of a Wetherspoon's


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

will spoons finally consider banning the EDL from their pubs?


----------



## Favelado (May 25, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I doubt they'd get much applause in Spain with Franco still being in living memory.


 
The governing PP is awful but is right-wing enough to absorb everything from the centre-right to more extreme sentiment, meaning that there's no significant extreme right-wing party. Probably better like that, wankers though they are.


----------



## DrRingDing (May 25, 2013)

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristo...ge-pub-takes/story-19089551-detail/story.html

I'm yet to see any demo I've been on get kettled in a pub.

Bloody favouritism.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 25, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Any idea where that is? Is it a mosque or a community centre or something? It looks like someone's back garden


It's the beer garden of the St George Hall, a Wetherspoons on Church Road in Redfield, an adjoining neighbourhood to Easton.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

peacefully protesting militant islam. 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151920064882004&set=vb.537842003&type=2&theater


----------



## Ranbay (May 25, 2013)




----------



## SpineyNorman (May 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> it looked like some EDL in a pub on the corner of a square and some antifascists and onlookers on the other side. i cant remember where i saw this. i have been switching thru websites all day. if you aint heard nothing, i doubt much happened.


 
Sounds like the weatherspoons at barkers pool - did it look like this?


----------



## DrRingDing (May 25, 2013)

Not racist then.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

any good they reckon they've done today will be overshadowed by the bristol riot.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

could be but i have been on this all day and cant recall. ive asked about a bit though.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 25, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Not racist then.


 
Why are the _*English*_ Defence League kicking the 'extremist' out of Italy?


----------



## Badgers (May 25, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:
			
		

> Not sure, just seen some stuff on twitter about London and monday, not what tha plans are.



Let us know yeah. Have some spare time Monday


----------



## DrRingDing (May 25, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Let us know yeah. Have some spare time Monday


 
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/sport-are-troops-edl-demo-downing-street-monday.310800/


----------



## Badgers (May 25, 2013)

DrRingDing said:
			
		

> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/sport-are-troops-edl-demo-downing-street-monday.310800/



See you there then sir


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2013)

eeek! 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/05/509707.html


----------



## Badgers (May 25, 2013)

As long as The Saint George pub in Bristol is okay I am pretty chilled.


----------



## Badgers (May 26, 2013)

Some unpleasant rumours on twitter  Edgware Road?


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 26, 2013)

One John Piasecki of St George claims that the Bristol shenaigans was just - wait for it - "a  help for Heros pub crawl"...(!)


----------



## butchersapron (May 26, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> One John Piasecki of St George claims that the Bristol shenaigans was just - wait for it - "a help for Heros pub crawl"...(!)


Exactly what two lads in evf hoodies said to me outside the tesco. Their fat old  king-nonce handler had to come save them.


----------



## JHE (May 26, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Why are the _*English*_ Defence League kicking the 'extremist' out of Italy?


 
The cartoon you you post is perfectly clear, isn't it?  The young lady with the EDL shield is kicking the pig-mozza out of Europe.

I can understand that you disagree with kicking Islam out of Europe, but you have nothing to gain by pretending not to understand that others, including the football hooligans of the EDL, want to protect Europe from Islam.


----------



## butchersapron (May 26, 2013)

_and we're back in the room_


----------



## ddraig (May 26, 2013)

JHE said:


> The cartoon you you post is perfectly clear, isn't it? The young lady with the EDL shield is kicking the pig-mozza out of Europe.
> 
> I can understand that you disagree with kicking Islam out of Europe, but you have nothing to gain by pretending not to understand that others, including the football hooligans of the EDL, want to protect Europe from Islam.


well done! *slow handclap


----------



## Citizen66 (May 26, 2013)

JHE said:


> The cartoon you you post is perfectly clear, isn't it?  The young lady with the EDL shield is kicking the pig-mozza out of Europe.
> 
> I can understand that you disagree with kicking Islam out of Europe, but you have nothing to gain by pretending not to understand that others, including the football hooligans of the EDL, want to protect Europe from Islam.



Why, what has Turkey done that is so bad?


----------



## DrRingDing (May 26, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> eeek!
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/05/509707.html


 
Can anyone back this up?


----------



## free spirit (May 26, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Can anyone back this up?


 


> 12 people are currently being detained by Northumbria police in Newcastle. They were arrested as they sought to exercise their human right to demonstrate against the EDL on Saturday 25 May. The 12 include seven FRFI supporters and some anarchists. Later in the afternoon, police raided the homes of those they had arrested and took away a computer. Newcastle Unites, a coalition which includes Labour councillors, Newcastle TUC and the SWP, had passed the names of our comrades to the police earlier in the week in order to exclude them from a public meeting on Thursday and then gave the police the green light to arrest them today. In a Facebook posting this week Newcastle Unites figurehead Dipu Ahad warned FRFI and other committed anti-fascists that if they attempted to join the anti-EDL rally,
> ‘I assure you that you will be thrown out of the demo and the public meeting by our stewards who will be many. You will also be reported to the police for causing disorder!’
> Police stood outside the Newcastle Unites public meeting with a list of names and barred anybody whose name was on the list.


http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3023-pa250513
see this page for full background here

Fucking disgusting behaviour.

ps active mates on facebook who were there have been posting about this.


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2013)

I bring you footage of the Battle of Wetherspoons in Bristol.


----------



## laptop (May 26, 2013)

JHE said:


> The cartoon you you post is perfectly clear, isn't it? The young lady with the EDL shield is kicking the pig-mozza out of Europe.
> 
> I can understand that you disagree with kicking Islam out of Europe, but you have nothing to gain by pretending not to understand that others, including the football hooligans of the EDL, want to protect Europe from Islam.


 
And you're too ignorant to see the echoes of _Der Sturmer_ in that cartoon?

Idiot. Self-destructive idiot. Suicidal.


----------



## DrRingDing (May 26, 2013)

free spirit said:


> http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3023-pa250513
> see this page for full background here
> 
> Fucking disgusting behaviour.
> ...


 
Fucking disgusting indeed.


----------



## keybored (May 26, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> One John Piasecki of St George claims that the Bristol shenaigans was just - wait for it - "a help for Heros pub crawl"...(!)


There is a lot of that going on, on various social media.

I was on Church Road and witnessed what was described on some site as "a Help for Heroes charity collector punched in the face by people who were chanting they didn't care about the dead soldier".

What really happened - A couple of dicks unfurled a H4H banner and started aggressively targeting anyone who looked remotely foreign and asking them if they supported soldiers. It's noteworthy that these two had no badges or collection boxes. After goading a group of bemused bystanders for 30 seconds or so, the police on horseback dove in and told them to fuck off. I later saw one of these "charity collectors" tell a couple of kids of no more than 12 years old that there were "people down there who want to cut your fucking heads off" (motioning down Church Road toward Lawrence Hill).


----------



## keybored (May 26, 2013)

JHE said:


> The cartoon you you post is perfectly clear, isn't it? The young lady with the EDL shield is kicking the pig-mozza out of Europe.
> 
> I can understand that you disagree with kicking Islam out of Europe, but you have nothing to gain by pretending not to understand that others, including the football hooligans of the EDL, want to protect Europe from Islam.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek


----------



## emanymton (May 26, 2013)

free spirit said:


> http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3023-pa250513
> see this page for full background here
> 
> Fucking disgusting behaviour.
> ...


Shocking,  FRFI have seven supporters! 

Sounds like labour councillors rather than the SWP giving details to the cops. 

But guilt by association.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 26, 2013)

JHE said:


> The cartoon you you post is perfectly clear, isn't it? The young lady with the EDL shield is kicking the pig-mozza out of Europe.
> 
> I can understand that you disagree with kicking Islam out of Europe, but you have nothing to gain by pretending not to understand that others, including the football hooligans of the EDL, want to protect Europe from Islam.


 
Thanks for that. You humourless racist wanker.


----------



## thriller (May 26, 2013)

had my first taste of the EE EDL chant last night in Vauxhall. Was in bed reading book and heard two blokes giving it the EE EDL. After 3 chants it went quiet. Clearly they had just come from some pub or somewhere after the Kessler v Froch boxing as I had just finished watching it myself.


----------



## manny-p (May 26, 2013)

free spirit said:


> http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3023-pa250513
> see this page for full background here
> 
> Fucking disgusting behaviour.
> ...


 
What are your mates on facebook saying about it? So was it defo the SWP who were the snitches?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 26, 2013)

DrRingDing said:
			
		

> Can anyone back this up?



Labour councillor Dipu Ahad Threatened to report anything the official demo didn't like to the old bill on the Newcastle Unites page on facebook prior to the event.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 26, 2013)

Oh I see the article mentions it. I saw it with my own eyes. Almost started a thread about it.


----------



## Geri (May 26, 2013)

keybored said:


> It's noteworthy that these two had no badges or collection boxes.


 
There was an official Help for Heroes collection in the Galleries  on Friday. They were proper soldiers in uniform, not some football hooligans from Kingswood. One of them called me "love" and I didn't give them any money, although not for that reason.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 26, 2013)

Love is in the air ...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-english-defence-league-1912413


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2013)

bristol pics: http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/pictures/PHOTOS-St-George-unrest/pictures-19089566-detail/pictures.html


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2013)

thriller said:


> had my first taste of the EE EDL chant last night in Vauxhall. Was in bed reading book and heard two blokes giving it the EE EDL. After 3 chants it went quiet. Clearly they had just come from some pub or somewhere after the Kessler v Froch boxing as I had just finished watching it myself.


 
disappointing isnt it? ive heard it for the last 4 years and im  still waiting to be impressed.


----------



## BlackArab (May 26, 2013)

Fingers said:


> I bring you footage of the Battle of Wetherspoons in Bristol.





Too close to home for me. The pub was two minutes walk from my last house and I know Lesmoor Kelly. Must have been a nightmare for him trapped in there with barricades at the front and all the shenanigans in the garden but he's a local through and through so others hopefully were looking out for him. Mind you knowing the confused mindset of those doing the fighting he might not have been in any more danger than any others in there.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 26, 2013)

What a dull set of pics, mostly coppers just stood around. The photographer didn't exactly get into the thick of the action. 
eta: the bristol post ones


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2013)

this is a common problem. its very difficult to get the shots when it goes off cos plod totally surround them. this is why the typical demo has loads of shots early outside the pub then loads of coppers backs!


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## malatesta32 (May 26, 2013)

does anyone know what happened after the newcastle march? did they get bussed out or left to their own devices?


----------



## ibilly99 (May 26, 2013)

BlackArab said:


> Too close to home for me. The pub was two minutes walk from my last house and I know Lesmoor Kelly. Must have been a nightmare for him trapped in there with barricades at the front and all the shenanigans in the garden but he's a local through and through so others hopefully were looking out for him. Mind you knowing the confused mindset of those doing the fighting he might not have been in any more danger than any others in there.


 
As they lift their 'fallen comrade' - probably trapped his toe in the door - I am reminded of Nelson's reputed last words Kiss Me Hardy - a lot of deep-cover in denial closets here methinks .


----------



## BlackArab (May 26, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> As they lift their 'fallen comrade' - probably trapped his toe in the door - I am reminded of Nelson's reputed last words Kiss Me Hardy - a lot of deep-cover in denial closets here methinks .


 

Strong heroics on show all round especially 2:27 when one bolts through the door and closes it behind him leaving the lad in red to get battered a bit more. He then attacks the door he has himself pulled closed clearly not fancying the ruck in the other doorway. Have to say that despite once living there I hadn't realised the pub had a garden area until now, you learn summat new every day.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 26, 2013)

They should either 'come out' or find some nice young ladies to woo and then all this misplaced testosterone would flower into good citizenship.


----------



## AverageJoe (May 26, 2013)

I'm guessing that this has already been covered?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-English-Defence-League/238696516197018

EDL DEMONSTRATION DETAILS – DOWNING STREET – 27TH MAY 2013 


MUSTER POINT IS:-

The Lord Moon of The Mall
 16-18 Whitehall
London SW1A 2DY, 

YOU WILL BE ABLE TO MEET FROM 11.30AM AT THIS WETHERSPOON PUB

AT 2.30PM WE WILL PROCEED WITH THE MARCH TO DOWNING STREET – THIS IS APPROXIMATELY A 5 MINUTE WALK

THE MARCH WILL PASS THE CENOTAPH EN ROUTE TO DOWNING STREET AND IF ANYONE WISHES TO STOP TO LAY FLOWERS AND PAY THEIR RESPECTS TO LEE RIGBY AND OTHER FALLEN SOLDIERS PLEASE MAKE THE STEWARDS AWARE. LEE RIGBY’S REGIMENT COLOURS ARE RED AND WHITE


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2013)

some bellend posted as me on indymedia calling for a counter-demo. we dont call demos. ignore it. as its pretty unofficial in the middle of town good job the EDL can barricade themselves in that wetherspoons!


----------



## Tom A (May 26, 2013)

free spirit said:


> http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3023-pa250513
> see this page for full background here
> 
> Fucking disgusting behaviour.
> ...


Indeed. SWP/UAF/whatever bunch of liberal pseudo-lefties were involved were definitely part of the problem there.

By the way it was reported that SWP/UAF did something very similar when the EDL came to Manchester back in 2009, so they have form for this kind of thing.


----------



## J Ed (May 26, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> Love is in the air ...
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-english-defence-league-1912413


 

Utterly surreal, although I can actually seem them both getting on I think...


----------



## treelover (May 26, 2013)

have to say Tommy is looking very dapper these days..


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2013)

its all the proceeds from the hoody sales. note he NEVER wears such tat as he sells.


----------



## J Ed (May 26, 2013)

Let's not forget all those lunches with lefty liberal journos....


----------



## malatesta32 (May 26, 2013)

tommy claimed he was charging 50 quid a pop 'to cover expenses and hotel room' to do interviews. needless to say, majority of journos fucked him off so he dropped it as no one was paying attention. the main commentators - lowles, goodwin, etc - dont pay em. to be honest J Ed, they leak enough info on facebook you dont have to pay (altho they ring up 'a well know antifascist org' to grass each other for 50 quid a pop too.)


----------



## Citizen66 (May 26, 2013)

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/05/509707.html


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2013)

God save the queen, quickly followed by a nazi salute


----------



## barney_pig (May 26, 2013)

Fingers said:


> I bring you footage of the Battle of Wetherspoons in Bristol.



Why are the filth staying out of the pub, as far as I was aware the right to sanctuary was lost in the 17th century, and was not designed for gastropubs?


----------



## JimW (May 26, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Why are the filth staying out of the pub, as far as I was aware the right to sanctuary was lost in the 17th century, and was not designed for gastropubs?


 
It's some Freeman of the Land thing - if you're holding a pork scratching they just have to let you go, apparently.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 26, 2013)

JimW said:
			
		

> It's some Freeman of the Land thing - if you're holding a pork scratching they just have to let you go, apparently.



Shout urgent several times and tell them that you're pregnant.


----------



## barney_pig (May 26, 2013)

JimW said:


> It's some Freeman of the Land thing - if you're holding a pork scratching they just have to let you go, apparently.


This is the freedom that the muslamics want to steal from us


----------



## The39thStep (May 26, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/05/509707.html


 
SWP holding back the masses who wanted to take on the EDL


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Why are the filth staying out of the pub, as far as I was aware the right to sanctuary was lost in the 17th century, and was not designed for gastropubs?


Wetherspoons... "gastropub"???


----------



## barney_pig (May 26, 2013)

Corax said:


> Wetherspoons... "gastropub"???


I drink there, I eat there. Gastropub.


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> I drink there, I eat there. Gastropub.


 
Right... Pizza Hut is therefore a gastropub.

As is my flat.

And the bus-stop.


----------



## barney_pig (May 26, 2013)

Corax said:


> Right... Pizza Hut is therefore a gastropub.
> 
> As is my flat.
> 
> And the bus-stop.


You might pop down to the Fat Duck for a pub meal, but when me and mine want to have a pint and a burger it's weather spoons for us.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2013)

posted again as the other was removed, they edited it out of the one they put up, not sure why?


----------



## UhOhSeven (May 26, 2013)

I think I've finally found Mr Right:







_<swoon>_

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/25/woolwich-attack-islam


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (May 26, 2013)

Liverpool Anti-Fascists just published this;

"*Liverpool: Fascists are planning to hold another demo tomorrow to continue fanning the racist backlash over the Woolwich killing. They are set to meet at St Luke's/the bombed-out church on Berry St at 10am and a counter-protest has been called. Be there and invite anyone you know: friends & family, workmates, students, trade unionists, community campaigners, LGBT groups etc.*
* On Friday around 30 fascists had the run of the streets, marching around the city chanting racist abuse, at one point bringing a Muslim woman to tears, all the while recruiting for their movement. We can't let it happen again tomorrow.

This isn't an optional extra: there have been over 150 reported attacks on Muslims since Wednesday, mosques have been attacked and petrol bombed, fascist street groups have been given a massive boost. Nick Griffin of the BNP described the situation as 'the Stephen Lawrence moment of the Right', after 18 months of decline the fascists hope to enter back onto the stage alongside the rise of UKIP and the drumbeat on immigration.

Its not just the immediate victims of racist abuse and violence who are at threat: if the fascists are left unchallenged on the streets it will make it increasingly difficult for those of us fighting the cuts and trying to build an alternative to organise. Our stalls will be attacked, meetings disrupted and marches harrassed. The far-right are gaining traction and starting to get involved in channeling the anger at the government and its attacks on the working class such as the bedroom tax. Let's roll them back."*


----------



## audiotech (May 26, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Why are the filth staying out of the pub, as far as I was aware the right to sanctuary was lost in the 17th century, and was not designed for gastropubs?


 
More here.


----------



## audiotech (May 26, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> SWP holding back the masses who wanted to take on the EDL


 
Around 11 RCG members I believe.


----------



## The39thStep (May 26, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Around 11 RCG members I believe.


 

Lets hope there are no injuries, squads very thin.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 26, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Around 11 RCG members I believe.



12 activists including 7 RCG members, apparently.

http://www.workersliberty.org/story...ious-questions-left-and-labour-movement-needs


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2013)




----------



## thriller (May 26, 2013)

UhOhSeven said:


> I think I've finally found Mr Right:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/25/woolwich-attack-islam


OMG


----------



## The39thStep (May 26, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> 12 activists including 7 RCG members, apparently.
> 
> http://www.workersliberty.org/story...ious-questions-left-and-labour-movement-needs


 
still thin


----------



## Citizen66 (May 26, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> still thin



I'm unsure what your digs are about here. Anti-fascists got arrested on the say so of supposed comrades from the UAF contingent. It's a shit state of affairs regardless of the numbers involved.


----------



## fiannanahalba (May 26, 2013)

Jesus done alright with 12.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 26, 2013)

fiannanahalba said:


> Jesus done alright with 12.


Have you seen The Passion of the Christ? Didn't look like he did that alright to me


----------



## The39thStep (May 26, 2013)

fiannanahalba said:


> Jesus done alright with 12.


 
apart from Judas


----------



## The39thStep (May 26, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm unsure what your digs are about here. Anti-fascists got arrested on the say so of supposed comrades from the UAF contingent. It's a shit state of affairs regardless of the numbers involved.


 
Perhaps the antifascists either need to recruit more than the UAF anti fascists or conduct their activity away from UAF?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 26, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Perhaps the antifascists either need to recruit more than the UAF anti fascists or conduct their activity away from UAF?



If by activity you mean turning up to a demo and if by away from you mean somewhere the edl isn't then I don't get what strategy you're suggesting. Anyway, the article I linked to gives some background.


----------



## pissflaps (May 26, 2013)

http://www.newageman.co.uk/articles/muslim-man-becomes-first-person-ever-commit-gruesome-murder


----------



## Corax (May 26, 2013)

barney_pig said:
			
		

> You might pop down to the Fat Duck for a pub meal, but when me and mine want to have a pint and a burger it's weather spoons for us.



Oh do fuck off. There's nowt wrong with Spoons, it does what it says on the tin.  But it's not a fucking "gastropub" you twat.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 26, 2013)

The "East Anglian Patriots" are planning a protest against a mosque in Lincoln that recently got planning permission on Saturday 8 June.

Bleurgh.

Some suggestion of a counter demonstration.

Local newspaper report here


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> The "East Anglian Patriots" are planning a protest against a mosque in Lincoln that recently got planning permission on Saturday 8 June.
> 
> Bleurgh.
> 
> ...


 
I wonder how many of those attending move in the same circles as the people involved in recent UKIP-attended Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire anti-immigration protests.

http://indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/05/509645.html there seems to be at least some overlap.


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> http://www.newageman.co.uk/articles/muslim-man-becomes-first-person-ever-commit-gruesome-murder


 
crass...


----------



## TopCat (May 27, 2013)

Who's coming today then?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm unsure what your digs are about here. Anti-fascists got arrested on the say so of supposed comrades from the UAF contingent. It's a shit state of affairs regardless of the numbers involved.


I don't know why anyone still supposes the uaf are in any way 'comrades'


----------



## Citizen66 (May 27, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> I don't know why anyone still supposes the uaf are in any way 'comrades'



Well, quite. Let's see if the SWP puts out any kind of statement distancing itself from those who touted.


----------



## articul8 (May 27, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well, quite. Let's see if the SWP puts out any kind of statement distancing itself from those who touted.


 SWP near me (NW London) are saying UAF only tipped coppers off re EDL infiltrators on the opposition demo.  Sounds like total bollocks


----------



## Citizen66 (May 27, 2013)

articul8 said:


> SWP near me (NW London) are saying UAF only tipped coppers off re EDL infiltrators on the opposition demo.  Sounds like total bollocks



Prior to the event all and Sundry were being banned from the Newcastle Unites facebook page. Some for criticising the 'official' approach, some for as little as just asking questions. One person got blocked from the page who hadn't said anything owing to the fact he was on holiday. An anarchist got accused of being a fascist infiltrator. Dipu Ahad explicitly threatened to have people arrested (which largely caused the reaction on the facebook page) if they turned up at the demo looking to 'cause trouble'. Seems he carried out his threat. Let's see if the SWP distance themselves from it or not.


----------



## articul8 (May 27, 2013)

My guess is they won't.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 27, 2013)

Well they haven't so far:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art/33425/Newcastle+united+against+the+racists+and+Nazis

Total doctoring of numbers there too. Anti-fascists were outnumbered by perhaps as many as four to one. Here's to the SWP's rapid decline.


----------



## raknor (May 27, 2013)

TopCat said:


> Who's coming today then?


 
Will be meeting up with a few people and heading up later


----------



## malatesta32 (May 27, 2013)

raknor said:


> Will be meeting up with a few people and heading up later


 
stay out of trouble!


----------



## raknor (May 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> stay out of trouble!


 
of course I will, you know me!


----------



## TopCat (May 27, 2013)

Lovely day for it.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2013)

TopCat said:


> Lovely day for it.


hope it turns out nice again


----------



## malatesta32 (May 27, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> posted again as the other was removed, they edited it out of the one they put up, not sure why?





this needs wide redistribution!


----------



## keybored (May 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> this needs wide redistribution!


The first time this got uploaded on youtube (now deleted), someone in the comments section claimed he was there, Spence did not say that and "some clever lefty must have edited it in".

Yeah, along with the rapturous cheers, clapping and salutes from the crowd? Major Hollywood studios will be head-hunting him right away.


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

It's been take down again for hate speach! lol


----------



## malatesta32 (May 27, 2013)

keybored said:


> The first time this got uploaded on youtube (now deleted), someone in the comments section claimed he was there, Spence did not say that and "some clever lefty must have edited it in".
> 
> Yeah, along with the rapturous cheers, clapping and salutes from the crowd? Major Hollywood studios will be head-hunting him right away.


 

yes, all their gaffs are a lefty-photoshoped-searchlight-commie-UAF plot aimed at exposing them as the racists they so clearly are!


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 27, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well, quite. Let's see if the SWP puts out any kind of statement distancing itself from those who touted.


 
It can't have been the SWP, they don't believe in the bourgeois justice system.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 27, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:
			
		

> It can't have been the SWP, they don't believe in the bourgeois justice system.



Only when it comes to rape allegations.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 27, 2013)

Mosque in Grimsby firebombed.

http://m.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/story.html?aid=19096477


----------



## malatesta32 (May 27, 2013)

anyone got any news on downing street? topcat and raknor were going.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> anyone got any news on downing street? topcat and raknor were going.


all quiet on the western front


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

https://twitter.com/mrjammyjamjar/status/339016679403180034/photo/1


----------



## malatesta32 (May 27, 2013)

just seen photos on twitter site. lots of cops, UAF plus other antifascists and a bunch of pissed up EDL.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2013)

there's some news on twitter, including donncha delong saying the anti-edl protest's blocked downing street


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://twitter.com/mrjammyjamjar/status/339016679403180034/photo/1


what i particularly like about that picture is the flag which says 'we will always remember' while some edlers do a foreign salute


----------



## cesare (May 27, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> there's some news on twitter, including donncha delong saying the anti-edl protest's blocked downing street


The OB are probably going to pen them (the edl) in Downing Street


----------



## manny-p (May 27, 2013)

I'm hearing there is well over 1,000 edl


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 27, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> posted again as the other was removed, they edited it out of the one they put up, not sure why?




That one's been removed too now.


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

https://twitter.com/MarshLK/status/339007017542889474/photo/1

https://twitter.com/NemesisRepublic/status/339021527909560320/photo/1


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 27, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://twitter.com/MarshLK/status/339007017542889474/photo/1


 
look at all the fucking begging attempts to try and get the EDL to partake in interviews on this one https://twitter.com/MarshLK fucks sake


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

lol


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

https://twitter.com/flashboy/status/339029733901754370/photo/1

*COUGH*


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://twitter.com/flashboy/status/339029733901754370/photo/1
> 
> *COUGH*


 
Well, they did say there were a lot of lads there...


----------



## malatesta32 (May 27, 2013)

1000 EDL? 
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...acists-in-central-london-protest-8633414.html 
can anyone verify?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 27, 2013)

Was Tommy ever in the Armed Forces?



> EDL leader Tommy Robinson told the demonstration: "This is a day of respect for our Armed Forces."


----------



## free spirit (May 27, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Perhaps the antifascists either need to recruit more than the UAF anti fascists or conduct their activity away from UAF?


 
apparently that's what they did do, but the police forced them to move into the main demo area, at which point the main demo organisers asked the police to nick them because they were worried about them causing trouble... or something like that.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 27, 2013)

Even the Daily Mail are having a pop - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...protest.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

http://twitpic.com/ctnrw5

back up


----------



## DrRingDing (May 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> 1000 EDL?
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...acists-in-central-london-protest-8633414.html
> can anyone verify?


 
Getting towards that.


----------



## DrRingDing (May 27, 2013)

Fair weather fascists mind. If the sun wasn't out I don't think they'd be so many dickheads out on the lash.


----------



## Limerick Red (May 27, 2013)

I think it was well over a thousand


----------



## teqniq (May 27, 2013)

> flashboy: That awkward moment when you realise your EDL rally is meeting up in a gay bar: http://t.co/uHFPHRX7C1


----------



## manny-p (May 27, 2013)

Tom A said:


> Indeed. SWP/UAF/whatever bunch of liberal pseudo-lefties were involved were definitely part of the problem there.
> 
> By the way it was reported that SWP/UAF did something very similar when the EDL came to Manchester back in 2009, so they have form for this kind of thing.


 
You got more information about the 2009 manchester thing?


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

C4 news just not, Help for heroes have taken down Tommy's donation page and said they will NEVER take money from him or the EDL.


http://twitpic.com/ctoc40


----------



## ddraig (May 27, 2013)

BNP plan march from woolwich to lewisham next week June 1
http://transpont.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/bnp-plan-march-on-lewisham.html


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2013)

Tbh the fash should make hay while this particular bit of sunshine's on them because there's undoubtedly a major bnp/edl/nf fuck up on the way even as we speak. Even when they're presented with an open goal the far-right have an unenviable ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2013)

Sky reporting EDL march tried to get to Mosque(just been firebombed) in Grimsby but were diverted, about 150 plus..


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

http://twitpic.com/ctof12

"Soldiers and #EDL are just the same."


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2013)

treelover said:


> Sky reporting EDL march tried to get to Mosque(just been firebombed) in Grimsby but were diverted, about 150 plus..


 
Jesus. Hopefully it rains soon.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 27, 2013)

who was that prick at the start of the protest in the black suit/shirt?
having probs uploading his pic


----------



## butchersapron (May 27, 2013)

articul8 said:


> My guess is they won't.


 
My god, look at your tag-line.


----------



## treelover (May 27, 2013)

> Violence broke out *when about 100 anti-fascists mobbed five protestors* who were arriving to join the march draped in Union Jacks and wearing England football shirts.
> 
> 
> > I do wonder what is going to happen when UAF are properly confronted by the EDL in numbers, they seem to have no awareness of what could happen to them in an equal situation


----------



## frogwoman (May 27, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Jesus. Hopefully it rains soon.


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

yeah, seen as only right wingers can fight it would be terrible i bet.


----------



## frogwoman (May 27, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Mosque in Grimsby firebombed.
> 
> http://m.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/story.html?aid=19096477


 
grim


----------



## DrRingDing (May 27, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> who was that prick at the start of the protest in the black suit/shirt?
> having probs uploading his pic


 
Kev Carrol?


----------



## DrRingDing (May 27, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> who was that prick at the start of the protest in the black suit/shirt?
> having probs uploading his pic


 
Or Weyman Bennet?


----------



## thriller (May 27, 2013)

not getting much coverage in the main news websites like bbc or sky, this demo


----------



## DrRingDing (May 27, 2013)

thriller said:


> not getting much coverage in the main news websites like bbc or sky, this demo


 
The BBC is suspiciously void of comment.

This is quite a big thing.


----------



## thriller (May 27, 2013)

been keeping an eye on the beeb website all day. nothing. glad, really. don't want them to get publicity.


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2013)

The BBC mention it at the end of an article about Help for Heroes not accepting EDL donations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22684489


----------



## Favelado (May 27, 2013)

> On the page, he wrote: "I am going to walk from Westminster in west London to Woolwich in east London (just over 17 miles) to lay a wreath in support of our troops (Lee Rigby RIP).


 
Not so hot on London geography then!


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2013)

Tommy on his way to sky news to do an interview about the help for heroes thingy


----------



## Favelado (May 27, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Tommy on his way to sky news to do an interview about the help for heroes thingy


 

He's got an easy way out though. They've said they don't accept any political donations so he's got his line for the interview right there. That takes the sting right out of it.


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Kev Carrol?


 

Yeah.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 27, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> who was that prick at the start of the protest in the black suit/shirt?
> having probs uploading his pic


him.. and his minder...
he had balls.. I will give him that...


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 27, 2013)

Is this the video that keeps getting lifted? No wonder.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 27, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> him.. and his minder...
> he had balls.. I will give him that...
> View attachment 33011


hmm... a black shirt, good look for him.


----------



## J Ed (May 28, 2013)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hessenberg/8858489088/

Must have missed Lennon ever being in the army...


----------



## cesare (May 28, 2013)

ddraig said:


> BNP plan march from woolwich to lewisham next week June 1
> http://transpont.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/bnp-plan-march-on-lewisham.html


Aye, also June 9 if you take a passing shufti at the NF site.


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

Did _we_ successfully defend downing street?


----------



## Fingers (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Did _we_ successfully defend downing street?


 

We did indeed. The antis turned up about an hour before the EDL and occupied the area in front of the gates and the police gave up on pushing us back. Reckon there was about 5-600 EDL and a three hundred antis.

Far less than the EDL were expecting I reckon.

Not long after we got there, KKKevin Carroll was tauning the crowd. the crowd broke free and KKKev shat himself and was saved by old bill.

With the Nazi salute opposite the women's war memorial that have surface from Russia Today and Help for Heroes telling them to fuck right off, the EDL have had another bad day in london.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 28, 2013)

Ah kevin Carroll was the man in black... couldnt rem his name but his face was familiar...


----------



## Fingers (May 28, 2013)

Oh and anonymous have launched #opEDL.  Could be worth watching


----------



## Favelado (May 28, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Oh and anonymous have launched #opEDL. Could be worth watching


 
EDL names and addresses everywhere already.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 28, 2013)

Favelado said:


> EDL names and addresses everywhere already.


there’s just old lists circulating at the mo.. donors n stuff...  no new stuff yet..


----------



## Favelado (May 28, 2013)

Favelado said:


> He's got an easy way out though. They've said they don't accept any political donations so he's got his line for the interview right there. That takes the sting right out of it.


 
He's ballsed it up by throwing a wobbly about it instead. Fucking hell. It was easy to play that ball.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

First Tommy hugging a muslim chappie now a football match....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...e-invited-in-for-tea-biscuits-and-footie.html


----------



## october_lost (May 28, 2013)

Fingers said:


> We did indeed. The antis turned up about an hour before the EDL and occupied the area in front of the gates and the police gave up on pushing us back. Reckon there was about 5-600 EDL and a three hundred antis.


Some attendees have given their number as high as 1500 and uaf/AF as 150.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

Fingers said:
			
		

> We did indeed. The antis turned up about an hour before the EDL and occupied the area in front of the gates and the police gave up on pushing us back. Reckon there was about 5-600 EDL and a three hundred antis.
> 
> Far less than the EDL were expecting I reckon.
> 
> ...



I think you missed the joke there...


----------



## scalyboy (May 28, 2013)

Could this war memorial graffiti be an EDL 'false flag' op?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

That crossed my mind too.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

kkkev karol was with dave bolton the bald tattoo headed guy whose claim to fame is being battered by his own side. robinson was never in the army. he will say that EDL are 'not political' but if H4H reject them that's a pretty big statement. as far as yesterdays numbers are cncerned, i reckon fingers is a MUCH MORE RELIABLE source than the the BBC.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

PR wise it may have been bad for EDL, but mobilising 100s again after newcastle was pretty unexpected.


----------



## The39thStep (May 28, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> him.. and his minder...
> he had balls.. I will give him that...
> View attachment 33011


 
when you see this clip it appears he didn't have too much to be worried about apart from some cyclist


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

robinson was never in the services by the way apart from the motorway sevices when they all got nicked.


----------



## DrRingDing (May 28, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> him.. and his minder...
> he had balls.. I will give him that...
> View attachment 33011


 
No he didn't. We was penned in and he had his security very close at all times.

He wanted to look brave.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 28, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> No he didn't. We was penned in and he had his security very close at all times.
> 
> He wanted to look brave.


I hate the prick and all he stands for...
He did in all fairness stand his ground for quite a while.. there were ops when he started his tirade to dig him... There wasn’t always a line of cops there..
imo.. we fecked up by engaging with him.. we should have pushed on and went to that weatherspoons where the EDL scum were gathering (same pub they were in at the Thatcher party btw)
As the crowd started to pause and engage with him, the cops stepped up their defences and nicely stopped our progress..
You were there I take it?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

they are going to leeds saturday, meeting at 1pm in guess where? wetherspoons!!! hope folk get mobilised down there!


----------



## TopCat (May 28, 2013)

Well we went and met up with a group at the Elephant and Castle. Everyone then walked up to Whitehall. The main group stayed near Downing Street. Others including our group had a wander further up Whitehall and met other mates.

The EDL were plotted up in pubs all around Trafalgar Square. A group of them were then herded up Whitehall and penned in with vans and police pending their march on Downing Street. This is when footage of one of their lot Seig Heilling was taken.
There were stray people from both sides all over the place but no bother at this stage. The police then let the EDL march and a fair bit of abuse was thrown about. Once the march commenced, a second wave of EDL came down Whitehall, mainly unescorted. This lot were more aggressive and given our group was totally outnumbered, it was only the reluctance of the EDL to actually attack which saved our necks. They bounced up and down a lot and threw a few bits and bobs and that was it.


What happened with the main anti EDL lot I don’t know?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

nice one TC!


----------



## mr steev (May 28, 2013)

Favelado said:


> He's got an easy way out though. They've said they don't accept any political donations so he's got his line for the interview right there. That takes the sting right out of it.


 

How will he explain this then?



> "I am looking at how to change the EDL into a genuine political party but we can't put a time on it at the moment. We are looking at the 2014 elections in Europe.


 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...an-elections-says-tommy-robinson-8207698.html


----------



## TopCat (May 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> nice one TC!


 
I dunno about that. I should have realised that the main mob would only come out of the pubs when the already penned in march was on it's way. The irony of the police, who minutes before had been getting stick from our side then having to protect us was not lost on me. The EDL just did not seem up for an actual fight though, despite the missiles and the threatening dance (bounce up and down and don't actually charge).


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 28, 2013)

TopCat said:


> What happened with the main anti EDL lot I don’t know?


It was somewhat scattered... the more militant pressed on (about 400) ... whilst the papersellers and speachy people held back (about 200).. nicely creating the first 'split'... the cops then created another wall preventing folk from getting to the back of the demo (another few hundred) and a lot drifted off from there... so there were 3 segments in the main body...


----------



## DrRingDing (May 28, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> I hate the prick and all he stands for...
> He did in all fairness stand his ground for quite a while.. there were ops when he started his tirade to dig him... There wasn’t always a line of cops there..
> imo.. we fecked up by engaging with him.. we should have pushed on and went to that weatherspoons where the EDL scum were gathering (same pub they were in at the Thatcher party btw)
> As the crowd started to pause and engage with him, the cops stepped up their defences and nicely stopped our progress..
> You were there I take it?


 
I was there. I said hello but you blanked me


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

yeah they are bouncy but often fall short of successful confrontation in my experience. they are usually too pissed and aware that despite the bravado there are cops everywhere. i meant nice one for the report.


----------



## TopCat (May 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah they are bouncy but often fall short of successful confrontation in my experience. They are usually too pissed and aware that despite the bravado there are cops everywhere. I meant nice one for the report.


 

Sorry I am not having the best of days. 

I have not seen this "run at you and then bounce up and down five feet away" dance since a Millwall game years ago. I think it was Arsenal who did it during some long ago cup run.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

TopCat said:


> Well we went and met up with a group at the Elephant and Castle. Everyone then walked up to Whitehall. The main group stayed near Downing Street. Others including our group had a wander further up Whitehall and met other mates.
> 
> The EDL were plotted up in pubs all around Trafalgar Square. A group of them were then herded up Whitehall and penned in with vans and police pending their march on Downing Street. This is when footage of one of their lot Seig Heilling was taken.
> There were stray people from both sides all over the place but no bother at this stage. The police then let the EDL march and a fair bit of abuse was thrown about. Once the march commenced, a second wave of EDL came down Whitehall, mainly unescorted. This lot were more aggressive and given our group was totally outnumbered, it was only the reluctance of the EDL to actually attack which saved our necks. They bounced up and down a lot and threw a few bits and bobs and that was it.
> ...


 
The UAF assembly point was totally hopeless, and had EDL walking straight through it (they could easily have attacked Weyman or other invididuals) - I was in a group up coming up from the Wesmintster end of Whitehall and got penned in but resisted getting pushed back by the police, stopping them from getting upto Downing Street.  To be honest though half a dozen scrawny scrotes passing themselves off as "black bloc" and a very mixed bag of others would have taken a pasting if it weren't for the cops.  I dare say I'm not the world's most handy streetfighter, but looking around I'd fancy the chances of those in that bit of the crowd even less, and I was up near the front nearest the EDL.


----------



## TopCat (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> The UAF assembly point was totally hopeless, and had EDL walking straight through it (they could easily have attacked Weyman or other invididuals) - I was in a group up coming up from the Wesmintster end of Whitehall and got penned in but resisted getting pushed back by the police, stopping them from getting upto Downing Street. To be honest though half a dozen scrawny scrotes passing themselves off as "black bloc" and a very mixed bag of others would have taken a pasting if it weren't for the cops. I dare say I'm not the world's most handy streetfighter, but looking around I'd fancy the chances of those in that bit of the crowd even less, and I was up near the front nearest the EDL.


 
I think we were in the same group.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

remember its not whether folk are scrawny, it is also about numbers and whether people move first. 3 people always beat 1. we cant all be Red Action sadly!!!!!!!


----------



## cesare (May 28, 2013)

Anyone near the Thamesmead flag?

Edit: I saw a photo on twitter, and wondering which group they were in cos it was hard to tell


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 28, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> I was there. I said hello but you blanked me



oops!


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

Apparently anonymous have leaked a list of people who have donated to the edl.

http://pastebin.com/sQuqmX7M


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (May 28, 2013)

Images from Liverpool yesterday - www.demotix.com/news/2095385/far-right-protesters-hold-march-liverpool


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Could this war memorial graffiti be an EDL 'false flag' op?




Just spraying Islam seems a bit strange to me.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> nice one TC!


 you are a close friend then I take it?


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> you are a close friend then I take it?


 
wtf?


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

lame gag


----------



## J Ed (May 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> they are going to leeds saturday, meeting at 1pm in guess where? wetherspoons!!! hope folk get mobilised down there!


 

This Saturday or next in Leeds? There's some talk about a national demo at Sheffield but the fash seem to be confused as to whether it's this Saturday or next.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> wtf?



Close friends get to call him tc


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> lame gag


 
Yeah.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

i think its leeds this saturday. organised by a charmer called 'don gold.'
dunno if you can access this J Ed: 
https://www.facebook.com/events/266007183540605/


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> you are a close friend then I take it?


 

no but almost met at brighton!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

also: 
http://twitpic.com/ctq4uv


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 28, 2013)

I wonder why Weatherspoons aren’t pro-actively distancing themselves from the EDL... they have had plenty of pubs wrecked by them and always seems to be a meeting point for them...


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2013)

> Robinson made a potentially fatal mistake at Woolwich where the EDL appeared as if celebrating the soldier murder for the political opportunity it them. The pissed up balaclavas and regulation bottle throwing at blacks did not appeal to the people of Woolwich. Neither will last night’s battle of Wetherspoons in Bristol. However Saturday in Newcastle was a different story. By and large discipline was maintained and the real plus for the EDL was that people watching were applauding and encouraging – would the same be true in Woolwich if they marched in orderly fashion with St.Georges flags flying and the balaclavas and goons abandoned? You tell me.


 
from Bones blog, some people are delusional on here if they can't realise that to some the EDL is becoming almost respectable.


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Apparently anonymous have leaked a list of people who have donated to the edl.
> 
> http://pastebin.com/sQuqmX7M


 




> Roald Dohmen
> [*]Indira Gandhilaan 43
> [*]4463JJ Goes Netherlands



oh the irony


----------



## Dogsauce (May 28, 2013)

Lots of foreign donors on that list - the US neo-nazis like stirring it up elsewhere, don't they?


----------



## DrRingDing (May 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> from Bones blog, some people are delusional on here if they can't realise that to some the EDL is becoming almost respectable.


 
Indeed. The OH is concerned that her father is now a supporter of the EDL.


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

What's needed is burning rivers of fire between us and the people the edl seek to appeal to, they could never be part of our constituency and their interests could never be ours right? We must separate ourselves from them by any means possible.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (May 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> from Bones blog, some people are delusional on here if they can't realise that to some the EDL is becoming almost respectable.


 
Equally delusional is the complacent view that UKIP are not in pole position to hoover up the support electorally.


----------



## The39thStep (May 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> from Bones blog, some people are delusional on here if they can't realise that to some the EDL is becoming almost respectable.


 
Its a mixed bag Treelover. The latest polling actually indcates that most people see the EDL as likely to create more trouble http://www.britishfuture.org/articl...-make-terrorism-more-likely-say-most-britons/

Its the issues or the percieved issues not the ogansiation that are becoming respectable


----------



## TopCat (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What's needed is burning rivers of fire between us and the people the edl seek to appeal to, they could never be part of our constituency and their interests could never be ours right? We must separate ourselves from them by any means possible.


 
How far do you take it? How far do you pander?


----------



## The39thStep (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What's needed is burning rivers of fire between us and the people the edl seek to appeal to, they could never be part of our constituency and their interests could never be ours right? We must separate ourselves from them by any means possible.


 
Mainly by not taking any of the issues behind their support seriously and taking the piss out of their lack of education ( wonderful idea that education makes us more correct), clothes and appearance , what they eat and how they speak.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (May 28, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Mainly by not taking any of the issues behind their support seriously and taking the piss out of their lack of education ( wonderful idea that education makes us more correct), clothes and appearance , what they eat and how they speak.


 
You mean taking the piss out of their _class?_


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

TopCat said:


> How far do you take it? How far do you pander?


 
Not sure that there is any need to pander - what is needed is some social or political _interaction_, some basis for discovering and _acting on each others politics_ without shouting _nazi_ or _you're not english anymore_ at each other. Taking part in the ongoing violent polarisation just pushes any possibility of that taking place further away. None of this means that you have to take a soft line or pander, it means that our views can only be recognised as legitimate through meaningful interaction however much they are rejected. I saw the shocked looks on the people opposing the edl down here on saturday and the anger on the other side - the real gulf between them was utterly demoralising - and in the longer term, damaging to everyone.

I made a point of talking to two lads in evf hoodies and asking them what was going on, they were so angry against 'rich students' and insisted over half an hour or so that they totally and utterly rejected racism (that doesn't mean that i bought it, just that they are aware that racism is not politically acceptable) - we were getting somewhere when an older bloke spotted what was going on and picked a fight with me in order to make them choose between standing with him or having dialogue with me, he spotted the danger of what was going on. I know that's a tiny and maybe not representative example but fuck me, something needs to happen on this ground before its too late.


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Its a mixed bag Treelover. The latest polling actually indcates that most people see the EDL as likely to create more trouble http://www.britishfuture.org/articl...-make-terrorism-more-likely-say-most-britons/
> 
> Its the issues or the percieved issues not the ogansiation that are becoming respectable


 
Yes, the 'british' by and large say they don't like 'political violence

and yes, UKIP will ultimately be the beneficiary of all this.


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Mainly by not taking any of the issues behind their support seriously and taking the piss out of their lack of education ( wonderful idea that education makes us more correct), clothes and appearance , what they eat and how they speak.


 
this is all over the web, its pretty incredible

btw some of the worse culprits regularly post on here.


----------



## The39thStep (May 28, 2013)

Smokeandsteam said:


> You mean taking the piss out of their _class?_


 
sure do honey


----------



## TopCat (May 28, 2013)

Maybe I am too ensconced in my anarchist ghetto. I don't see anything in common with the EDL I saw yesterday. (bar a liking for lager).


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2013)

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/creative-ways-to-mock-the-edl

*17 Creative Ways To Mock The EDL*


----------



## killer b (May 28, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.buzzfeed.com/lukelewis/creative-ways-to-mock-the-edl
> 
> *17 Creative Ways To Mock The EDL*


presume you're posting that as an example of what the last few posts have been talking about, bob? yeah, it is pretty shit. this from the daily mash is similarly sneering...


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2013)

I think Bob and others think satire will ultimately undermine the far right, to a point I agree, but there is satire and there is sneering.


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2013)

Yeah


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> I think Bob and others think satire will ultimately undermine the far right, to a point I agree, but there is satire and there is sneering.


 
It won't undermine the far-right - it won't touch them in the slightest. What it will do is act an in-group marker for certain types of people, people who the growing social tensions won't really touch - for now at least.


----------



## killer b (May 28, 2013)

yeah. the people who're posting this shit on fb are the same people who were loudly going on about defriending racists last week.


----------



## frogwoman (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not sure that there is any need to pander - what is needed is some social or political _interaction_, some basis for discovering and _acting on each others politics_ without shouting _nazi_ or _you're not english anymore_ at each other. Taking part in the ongoing violent polarisation just pushes any possibility of that taking place further away. None of this means that you have to take a soft line or pander, it means that our views can only be recognised as legitimate through meaningful interaction however much they are rejected. I saw the shocked looks on the people opposing the edl down here on saturday and the anger on the other side - the real gulf between them was utterly demoralising - and in the longer term, damaging to everyone.
> 
> I made a point of talking to two lads in evf hoodies and asking them what was going on, they were so angry against 'rich students' and insisted over half an hour or so that they totally and utterly rejected racism (that doesn't mean that i bought it, just that they are aware that racism is not politically acceptable) - we were getting somewhere when an older bloke spotted what was going on and picked a fight with me in order to make them choose between standing with him or having dialogue with me, he spotted the danger of what was going on. I know that's a tiny and maybe not representative example but fuck me, something needs to happen on this ground before its too late.


 

great post.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Jesus. Hopefully it rains soon.


 
it's pissing it down here


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2013)

i think the muslamic rayguns video was a particularly rare example here. it showed this guy who clearly had no idea what he was doing there. if you go on a demo, at least make sure you know why! inarticulate he may have been, but he didnt have a kangaroo. 

satire can be part of a overall struggle not a replacement for organisation.


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2013)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/28/edl-protestor-newcastle_n_3345383.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

That, "Send the black cu**s home" video has made it to the huffington post.


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2013)

Also the Metro front page is not a good look for them today... guy doing full on Nazi salute !


----------



## frogwoman (May 28, 2013)

killer b said:


> presume you're posting that as an example of what the last few posts have been talking about, bob? yeah, it is pretty shit. this from the daily mash is similarly sneering...


 

Daily mash can be pretty right wing at times frankly.


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

The Daily Mash, Cannon and Ball to the Onion's Curb.


----------



## killer b (May 28, 2013)




----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2013)




----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> C4 news just not, Help for heroes have taken down Tommy's donation page and said they will NEVER take money from him or the EDL.
> 
> 
> http://twitpic.com/ctoc40


 
I see they've used an image linked to the former Jewish Defence League, which I see still exists as a facebook page. Thought I'd have a trawl as a reminder of past events.

The JDL didn't exist (well existed in some form) once Roberta Moore left in 2011, after raising concerns of neo-fascists infiltrating the administration of the EDL. The message from Ms Moore was somewhat contradictory as she didn't mind their racist and nazi views, as long as they didn't say them in public. Her parting song for her troops:





Yaxley-Lennon, responding to a post on Pamela Geller's blog back in 2011, withdrawing her support for the EDL, to do with her concerns about racist and fascist infiltration, said this would be dealt with. After today's sieg heiler/Blood and Honour and Alan Spence's recent comments. You've some way to go yet Tommy and even after today's well attended rally that still would be down.


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


Not the best satire i've ever seen.

_You have angered us greatly_. Fucking hell.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Also the Metro front page is not a good look for them today... guy doing full on Nazi salute !



Happen as maybe, but their supposed image problem doesn't appear to be causing widespread revulsion as one might expect.


----------



## DrRingDing (May 28, 2013)

I think we all need to calm down a bit. Give it a few weeks to die down. They may keep a small amount from this support but I forecast it'll be a very small amount....

....and then we'll be back to it's decline again...

...hopefully!


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> I think we all need to calm down a bit. Give it a few weeks to die down. They may keep a small amount from this support but I forecast it'll be a very small amount....
> 
> ....and then we'll be back to it's decline again...
> 
> ...hopefully!


 
What about Islamic extremism?

Any marches planned against Anjem and co?


----------



## Limerick Red (May 28, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> I think we all need to calm down a bit. Give it a few weeks to die down. They may keep a small amount from this support but I forecast it'll be a very small amount....
> 
> ....and then we'll be back to it's decline again...
> 
> ...hopefully!


I think the point on this is, Tommy has essentially being given a chance to have another go, the leadership fucked up hard again and again over the last 12 months, now Tommy is alot of things but he's not a stupid boy, ya would presume he has learnt something from the mistakes. Thats not to say the underlining tensions and splits have gone away, but if he can replace these with new members, and bring back in the people who fell away early last time, I think they could stop the rot. Probably wont be able to maintain the numbers we have seen in the last week, but their certainly in a much better place then they were last Wednesday.


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> What about Islamic extremism?
> 
> Any marches planned against Anjem and co?


 
Yes, i believe that the edl do intend to do a few of them. What are _your_ plans?


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Yes, i believe that the edl do intend to do a few of them. What are _your_ plans?


 
Why does it have to be them?

Why can't we get people together to march against them from all different backgrounds?

Even if it was just a one off. It would be good to show some solidarity in the face of this growing threat.


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Why does it have to be them?
> 
> Why can't we get people together to march against them from all different backgrounds?
> 
> Even if it was just a one off. It would be good to show some solidarity in the face of this growing threat.


 
As i asked, what are your plans?


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> As i asked, what are your plans?


 
For what?

Protesting or life in general?


----------



## Corax (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> What about Islamic extremism?
> 
> Any marches planned against Anjem and co?


 
There's really not any point Oswald, they pose no political threat.

Great username btw. I've got you down for another 24 hours max.

You fash cunt.


----------



## cantsin (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not the best satire i've ever seen.
> 
> _You have angered us greatly_. Fucking hell.


 

tbf though, no one who's trying to build an organisation at least partly via online presence ( eg : EDL 'local branches' etc ) will enjoy having Anon on their case - the likes of the little dude above and his mates getting busy present more of a challenge than a  tightly choreographed UAF wingding ever could.


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> For what?
> 
> Protesting or life in general?


 
Your protests against 'this growing threat'.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Your protests against 'this growing threat'.


 
Nothing, I'm not leadership material.

I just hope that eventually religion will die out. Much better world without it all.


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

cantsin said:


> tbf though, no one who's trying to build an organisation at least partly via online presence ( eg : EDL 'local branches' etc ) will enjoy having Anon on their case - the likes of the little dude above and his mates getting busy present more of a challenge than a tightly choreographed UAF wingding ever could.


 
All there is is donations and public facebook likes though isn't there? And to be honest, i don't care about someone going after them for that  stuff - it's their nonsense about angering the mighty anon gods. It's all a bit:


----------



## frogwoman (May 28, 2013)

oswald why did you choose that particular username?


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Nothing, I'm not leadership material.
> 
> I just hope that eventually religion will die out. Much better world without it all.


 
Let me guess, you're 19 - living in halls, first time living away from home?


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> oswald why did you choose that particular username?


 
Just thought it was pretty satirical in nature.

Guess my penchant for humour doesn't rub off on others.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Let me guess, you're 19 - living in halls, first time living away from home?


 
Nope. 23, no job, not much going on.


----------



## Corax (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Just thought it was pretty satirical in nature.
> 
> Guess my penchant for humour doesn't rub off on others.


 
Nah, it's because you're a cunt isn't it?  At least stand by your convictions pal!


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

Corax said:


> Nah, it's because you're a cunt isn't it? At least stand by your convictions pal!


 
Well there's that also I suppose.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

I don't think you'll find many fans of Islamists on here, Oswald.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What's needed is burning rivers of fire between us and the people the edl seek to appeal to, they could never be part of our constituency and their interests could never be ours right? We must separate ourselves from them by any means possible.


 
I'm in agreement with your point on this (as well as understanding the dangers of complacency that come from pretending that all your opponents are idiots and don't need anything more than ridicule to keep them in check) - but in recent times how have the NF in the 80's and later BNP been knocked back into obscurity?  Do you have examples of engagement working to any large degree?

The BNP seemed to be defeated by being marginalised - and leaks of the membership list and resulting witch hunts was probably a fairly heavy blow and disincentive to people to stand with them, assisted by Griffin's clowning about and various corruption and incompetancy.

However, my thoughts are that the BNP collapse seemed to be a defeat of that 'brand' and organisation - not the attitudes and issues behind their growth - and maybe the EDL is just a new flag the same shit is attaching to.  Is it enough just to defeat the organisations, and not the attitude?  Is the philisophical battle an uneven one, seeing as it's really being fought against papers like the Daily Star/Express and various media gobshites who have a fairly powerful platform to spread lies and promote the latest bogeyman?  Almost every conversation I've ever had about 'them' has always been a littany of tabloid bullshit about 'free houses for asylum seekers' and so on, including most recently allegations that Muslims could escape the bedroom tax by declaring a spare room as a prayer room, while good old white disabled folk were losing their homes with the rooms needed for their equipment.  The divide and rule stuff works, it really does.  How the hell do you counter it effectively?


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Why can't we get people together to march against them from all different backgrounds


 
Who's the we in this question anyway?

EDL has too many hardened racists and bigots amongst its core supporters to ever win over people from of "all different backgrounds" and it's been like that since it started. That puts people off, even people who might share some of the politics. The way they acted in London in the direct aftermath of this has put people off, for it's rank opportunism off the back of a heinous crime if nothing else. I don't doubt for a second that a non-violent, peaceful, non-racist (ie the things the EDL claims to be but isn't) political movement against violent islamists could get mass support in this country, but for the fact most people aren't impressed by the EDL stone island danny dyer bollocks. They'd rather vote UKIP.


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 28, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> The divide and rule stuff works, it really does. How the hell do you counter it effectively?


 
Old fashioned dinosaur class politics. Building movements on the basis of shared material needs, things that are felt in common accross all communities, ethnicities and religions, sounds cheesy but it build solidarity between people and keeps communities from retreating into segregation. Acknolwedge that political correctness and liberal identity politics has been, over the last few decades, pretty ineffective at dealing with racism, and dealing with other grievances that aren't explicitly or necessarily racial in nature but end up becoming racialised because of this ineffectiveness. At all times, the growth of the far-right reflects the weakness of the left, that was true back in the 30's and it's true today.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Who's the we in this question anyway?
> 
> EDL has too many hardened racists and bigots amongst its core supporters to ever win over people from of "all different backgrounds" and it's been like that since it started. That puts people off, even people who might share the politics. The way they acted in London in the direct aftermath of this has put people off, for it's rank opportunism off the back of a heinous crime if nothing else. I don't doubt for a second that a non-violent, peaceful, non-racist (ie the things the EDL claims to be but isn't) political movement against violent islamists could get mass support in this country, but for the fact most people aren't impressed by the EDL stone island danny dyer bollocks. They'd rather vote UKIP.


 

Personally there aren't any Muslims where I live so it really doesn't effect me on a community level. I know a few Muslim people and they're friendly to me.

I would hate to live in Luton or Bradford or any of these other areas where you get a large Muslim population. I'm not sure if that's prejudiced or not but that's just how I feel. A good friend of mine lives in Bethnal Green and I feel uneasy just being there.

I understand why people are frightened of Islamic extremism. I hear about grooming gangs and the way in which towns get changed due to demographics and I would not like it if a large amount of Muslim people came to my town.

This is just my unbiased opinion as somebody who isn't involved in any of this stuff. I understand why people are scared and join the EDL.


----------



## TruXta (May 28, 2013)

Your unbiased opinion?  Fuck off.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 28, 2013)

Run Oswald RUN!


----------



## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> I'm in agreement with your point on this (as well as understanding the dangers of complacency that come from pretending that all your opponents are idiots and don't need anything more than ridicule to keep them in check) - but in recent times how have the NF in the 80's and later BNP been knocked back into obscurity? Do you have examples of engagement working to any large degree?
> 
> The BNP seemed to be defeated by being marginalised - and leaks of the membership list and resulting witch hunts was probably a fairly heavy blow and disincentive to people to stand with them, assisted by Griffin's clowning about and various corruption and incompetancy.
> 
> However, my thoughts are that the BNP collapse seemed to be a defeat of that 'brand' and organisation - not the attitudes and issues behind their growth - and maybe the EDL is just a new flag the same shit is attaching to. Is it enough just to defeat the organisations, and not the attitude? Is the philisophical battle an uneven one, seeing as it's really being fought against papers like the Daily Star/Express and various media gobshites who have a fairly powerful platform to spread lies and promote the latest bogeyman? Almost every conversation I've ever had about 'them' has always been a littany of tabloid bullshit about 'free houses for asylum seekers' and so on, including most recently allegations that Muslims could escape the bedroom tax by declaring a spare room as a prayer room, while good old white disabled folk were losing their homes with the rooms needed for their equipment. The divide and rule stuff works, it really does. How the hell do you counter it effectively?


 
I'm thinking more of the type of people the edl target rather than the edl itself- and not really on the basis of defeating the edl as the primary aim of but construction/identification/puruist of shared class interests meaning that the edl and the sort of race based understandings they are a manifestation of are simply squeezed out, they have no space in which to grow and what does develop can then be tackled on a more classical basis but next time around with those they target lining up on the other side against them. First part is the recognition that this is needed and that signing uo for the sort of polarisation we've seen recently is only playing into their (the edl/the fundies/the state) hands. Feels like swimming against a very strong tide right now though.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

From RCG/FRFI



> The report of events is on our website. http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3023-pa250513
> 
> The comrades concerned (both FRFI and others) have launched a defence campaign and information will be posted on this blog address http://defencecampaign.wordpress.com/


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> the way in which towns get changed due to demographics


 Show me a town whose demographics have never changed


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> Show me a town whose demographics have never changed


 
I never claimed towns don't get changed.

I'm sure there are some though.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> I'm sure there are some though.


Name one


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Apparently anonymous have leaked a list of people who have donated to the edl.
> 
> http://pastebin.com/sQuqmX7M


 
Ooooh, one of the ones in Sheffield lives right in the middle of one of the areas with the biggest Muslim populations, and where they're very well organised and a fair few of them involved in the kind of err... trades where you have to be able to provide your own security because the police might not be too keen on your line of business. I think he may be moving house before too long


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 28, 2013)

I was gonna say, I'm having a sincere conversation with _Oswald Mosley_ ffs here so  to me



OswaldMosley said:


> Personally there aren't any Muslims where I live so it really doesn't effect me on a community level. I know a few Muslim people and they're friendly to me.
> 
> I would hate to live in Luton or Bradford or any of these other areas where you get a large Muslim population. I'm not sure if that's prejudiced or not but that's just how I feel. A good friend of mine lives in Bethnal Green and I feel uneasy just being there.


 
I can't speak for Luton but my dad's family are from Bradford and I know that part of the world quite well, and don't believe the hype it's a fine place to live. It's always overstated how segregated some of the "communities" are in this country. I'm not saying it's all hunky dory just that take a town like Bradford, for all the talk of "multiculturalism has failed" Bradford functions. People live and work side by side every day and just get on with it, it's not fucking Mad Max. So when you say:



OswaldMosley said:


> I hear about grooming gangs and the way in which towns get changed due to demographics and I would not like it if a large amount of Muslim people came to my town.


 
You don't really know that unless you've lived somewhere where there is a mixed community. It's almost certainly not as bad as you're thinking. Honestly it took me a little while to get used to how multi-ethnic certain parts of London are when I first started visiting friends down there in my late teens, but having spent a bit of time there it demystifies all the preconceptions you have and now I buzz off it whenever I get chance to get down there.

And this:



OswaldMosley said:


> I understand why people are frightened of Islamic extremism. I understand why people are scared and join the EDL.


 
So do I, Islamic fundamentalists genuinely are dangerous and are pretty scum of the earth as far as I'm concerned. And I don't reckon anyone else here on this thread would have any difficulty in understanding why would people who are young alienated and disillusioned would end up going the way of the EDL, as mistaken as it is. But how does having demonstrations where you threaten to burn the Koran, or attempt to attack mosques, do anything at al to deal with radical islamic fundamentalism? How does that help matters? If anything the whole thing seems deliberately designed to provoke a backlash from people, from the left, from the muslims, from the state, it's fucking idiocy. And that's something they share with their enemies in Al Mujaharoon etc - the guy who killed the soldier in London said in his own words "we want to start a war here in London" and fuck me the EDL only went and took him up on his offer. Why give them the war they want?


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> Name one


 
I don't know I'm guessing. There must be a small town somewhere in Wales that hasn't changed.

That's besides the point and not what I'm arguing about at all.


----------



## sihhi (May 28, 2013)

What do people make of this kind of view of the EDL:

"the organization and the culture entirely football."

https://twitter.com/sadkant/status/339125650587791361

seeing the EDL as basically supporters' parties  Does it still make sense?


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

sihhi said:


> seeing the EDL as basically supporters' parties  Does it still make sense?


 
Dunno - we have the England v Ireland game on wednesday.   Expect EDL types will be there, and more bothered about singing "no surrender to the IRA" then owt to do with muslims.   There's a fair old Irish community round these parts too - let them come down The Kingdom with that carry on...


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not sure that there is any need to pander - what is needed is some social or political _interaction_, some basis for discovering and _acting on each others politics_ without shouting _nazi_ or _you're not english anymore_ at each other. Taking part in the ongoing violent polarisation just pushes any possibility of that taking place further away. None of this means that you have to take a soft line or pander, it means that our views can only be recognised as legitimate through meaningful interaction however much they are rejected. I saw the shocked looks on the people opposing the edl down here on saturday and the anger on the other side - the real gulf between them was utterly demoralising - and in the longer term, damaging to everyone.
> 
> I made a point of talking to two lads in evf hoodies and asking them what was going on, they were so angry against 'rich students' and insisted over half an hour or so that they totally and utterly rejected racism (that doesn't mean that i bought it, just that they are aware that racism is not politically acceptable) - we were getting somewhere when an older bloke spotted what was going on and picked a fight with me in order to make them choose between standing with him or having dialogue with me, he spotted the danger of what was going on. I know that's a tiny and maybe not representative example but fuck me, something needs to happen on this ground before its too late.


 
Gets to you sometimes and the fact it's gonna get a hell of a lot worse. Despite my pasty face comments, well I'm taking the piss out of myself here too, being from a pastie munching, lager drinking, can't afford a holiday background. As for dentistry? I still smell the gas they knocked you out with back then, so I avoided fillings and especially extractions if I could.

Don't know if you were around in 1977, anyway probably posted this before, but will do again now. Everywhere you went and I mean everywhere there was support for the NF in one form or another - graffiti, talking to people, people at work were supporters, even people you knew in the local pub. There were places in the town centre you purposely avoided. Then there were the foot soldiers of the British Movement to contend with. The left, caught on the hop as usual, having to do some rapid catch-up. My first anti-fascist meeting there were around a dozen of us, mostly very young people and a couple of middle-aged lecturers and when I looked at our strength in physical terms my first thought was "we're fucked". Hey, but we got on with the hard slog over a two year period, which was very intensive and a further three years of less intensive activity, but it was an achievement nonetheless. We countered the fascist propaganda, countered them in other ways too, but importantly people attended the weekly events and we managed to get one or two to help with the work we felt we had to do. Our small, but active Rock Against Racism group, who held events, with the organising and publicity produced in a mouldy old cellar, using silkscreen, producing posters and a litho printer for leaflets etc you turned with a handle. Met some people I wouldn't have met otherwise and have some really good memories of those days. Windows being smashed and swastika's sprayed on doors mere detail.

I have never seen any presence at all here of the EDL. There are some, but small in number and having to draft in people from the south, Portsmouth, places oop North from Newcastle and other places to get the numbers out and the other week here they managed just 150. They'll be pushing for momentum presently and trying to exploit this recent barbarity. They may get more numbers out during the coming summer months. Very likely. Their lack of discipline alone puts people off. I checked the number of likes tonight on one EDL facebook page and it had just eight. It looked to me like a national page too. I'm sure there are others with higher numbers, but what the hell. People can see a group exploiting a situation for their own ends, particularly if it's in tragic circumstances and malevolent.

More people out on the streets doing as you are butchers. My compliments sir.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (May 28, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Ooooh, one of the ones in Sheffield lives right in the middle of one of the areas with the biggest Muslim populations, and where they're very well organised and a fair few of them involved in the kind of err... trades where you have to be able to provide your own security because the police might not be too keen on your line of business. I think he may be moving house before too long


 
How is that funny?


----------



## Limerick Red (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> Dunno - we have the England v Ireland game on wednesday. Expect EDL types will be there, and more bothered about singing "no surrender to the IRA" then owt to do with muslims. There's a fair old Irish community round these parts too - let them come down The Kingdom with that carry on...


 
Apparently they fairly made shit of Kilburn/Cricklewood last time we played.


----------



## sihhi (May 28, 2013)

Here is the ISN on EDL and racism:

http://www.leninology.com/2013/05/a-few-points-on-struggle-against-racism.html



> I. This is a long-term fight that has to be conducted on many different levels.  It is not just a question of winning immediate political battles.  The tempo of political struggles is extremely rapid, and the half-life of a particular struggle can be very brief indeed.  But these struggles are fought on a terrain formed by years of cultural and ideological work, between forces shaped by that same work over a long duration.  The tempo of cultural and ideological battles is, compared to political fights, glacial.  But just because there are no immediate successes in these fronts doesn't mean they are of no value - they are absolutely central.  The intense racist backlash following the Woolwich killing was not inevitable.  It took place on the basis of efforts by diverse forces to elaborate new racist ideologies over a long period.


 
1. I don't really get it.



> II. We cannot fight the EDL without also combatting the other major forces of racism in society.  The EDL would be nothing without the tabloids, the police, the neoliberal parties in parliament, and so on.  The ideologies which legitimise the EDL's actions or at least render them as explicable reactions to extreme provocation, originate in Whitehall, the BBC, the press, parliament and the business funders of reaction.  And to defeat those forces we need a different range of tactics.  The EDL is primarily based on street violence, so the onus is on counter-mobilisation and self-defence.  The same tactics could not be deployed against UKIP, the Murdoch press, or the Home Office.


 
2. I'm never sure how much street violence the EDL is based on. They promote street shouting and chanting pretty vile stuff. They do encourage street incidents in a more general sense though.



> III. There is no future in attempting to collapse anti-racism into anti-austerity struggles.  Such attempts represent a strain of workerism, and have emerged from some surprising quarters - including Alexis Tsipras. ... certainly, the struggles over the capitalist crisis and its resolution has a relationship to the struggle over racism: this means that initiatives such as Left Unity and the People's Assembly should take anti-racism seriously as a semi-autonomous component of their broader strategy.


 
 3. I read this as saying 'there should be a Anti-Racism Unity' in addition to anything else.




> IV. ... But the processes through which they decided to join the most marginal and militant of Islamist sects in the first place are likely to be rooted in the daily processes of British capitalism.  We need to fight and win that argument: that Britain is a profoundly racist and unjust society in which black people are humiliated and deprived in all sorts of highly visible ways.


4. Seems to suggest racism is the better target to aim a campaign around rather than anti-war efforts - simply because combat operations have been handed over to the ANA and drone technology.



> I think this means that it would a political mistake to try to identify one type of racism as the 'respectable racism' and simply campaign against that - the tendency is for racism in general to be made 'more respectable', and therefore we need a multi-pronged assault on racism in general.


 
5. Seems to be let's have a left party, a pro-immigrants group and an anti-racism unity and a specific anti-EDL UAF group.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> How is that funny?


 
You haven't got long now Oswald.

Before you go care to answer some of the points which have been made? They seem to me to directly challenge some of your intial assertions and assumptions and therefore merit a reply from you.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 28, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Apparently they fairly made shit of Kilburn/Cricklewood last time we played.


 
Thought they hadn't played since Landsdowne rd riot 1995?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> Dunno - we have the England v Ireland game on wednesday. Expect EDL types will be there, and more bothered about singing "no surrender to the IRA" then owt to do with muslims. There's a fair old Irish community round these parts too - let them come down The Kingdom with that carry on...


 
Defending Downing Street on Monday - defending Kilburn on the Wednesday eh 8?


----------



## Limerick Red (May 28, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Thought they hadn't played since Landsdowne rd riot 1995?


 
Ya was on about 91.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Mainly by not taking any of the issues behind their support seriously and taking the piss out of their lack of education ( wonderful idea that education makes us more correct), clothes and appearance , what they eat and how they speak.


Weyman B was at this yesterday, some "joke" about how the EDL had been frightened by the prospect of the London Symphonic Orchestra in case they were forced to encounter culture, or some such shite.    And someone in the crowd behind me was shouting "chavs" (I kid you not - you'd have thought they'd have at least read their Owen and learnt not to).


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> Weyman B was at this yesterday, some "joke" about how the EDL had been frightened by the prospect of the London Symphonic Orchestra in case they were forced to encounter culture, or some such shite. And someone in the crowd behind me was shouting "chavs" (I kid you not - you'd have thought they'd have at least read their Owen and learnt not to).


 
Fucks sake.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Defending Downing Street on Monday - defending Kilburn on the Wednesday eh 8?


 Sure Kilburn can look after itself tbh - there's a fair few Irish pubs in Wembley mind, so not sure how that'll pan out.  Might have to station myself at a few of em just to be sure they're safe like


----------



## Limerick Red (May 28, 2013)

articul8 said:


> Sure Kilburn can look after itself tbh - there's a fair few Irish pubs in Wembley mind, so not sure how that'll pan out. Might have to station myself at a few of em just to be sure they're safe like


*Tommy Robinson EDL* ‏@*EDLTrobinson*  11 May
@*SMcGov90* cos of all this abuse from plastic paddys we are taking a tidy mob to England Ireland on 29 th
Retweeted by *Michael TBL Sapsford*


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

Best not to focus on foot in mouth idiocy.


----------



## articul8 (May 28, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> *Tommy Robinson EDL* ‏@*EDLTrobinson* 11 May
> @*SMcGov90* cos of all this abuse from plastic paddys we are taking a tidy mob to England Ireland on 29 th
> Retweeted by *Michael TBL Sapsford*


 
Thought as much

Ironic given "Lennon":


> Anglicized from Irish _Ó Leannáin_ (“descendant of Lover (_Leannán_)”) and from _Ó lonáin_ (“descendant of Blackbird (_Lonán_)”).


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 28, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Old fashioned dinosaur class politics. Building movements on the basis of shared material needs, things that are felt in common accross all communities, ethnicities and religions, sounds cheesy but it build solidarity between people and keeps communities from retreating into segregation. Acknolwedge that political correctness and liberal identity politics has been, over the last few decades, pretty ineffective at dealing with racism, and dealing with other grievances that aren't explicitly or necessarily racial in nature but end up becoming racialised because of this ineffectiveness. At all times, the growth of the far-right reflects the weakness of the left, that was true back in the 30's and it's true today.


 
Yep, as the bedroom tax stuff was starting to happen a mate I went to college with got in touch with me to say his mum and his sister (who live on one of the poorest estates in the country) were both going to be hit by the bedroom tax. I knew about his sister because he'd told me he was worried that she was falling in with the far-right and asked me for advice on it - she'd been around the fringes of the EDL and then moved in with a bloke who seemed to be kind of the unofficial leader of the NWI in their town (not going to say where cos I don't want any of them to figure out who she is but those who know me will probably be able to guess - it's somewhere where the BNP were very strong pre-meltdown).

He asked me whether I agreed with it (bedroom tax) and I explained I thought it stank and was torn as to whether to offer to talk to them about setting up a campaign on their estate. But in the end I thought fuck it, he's a good mate and the stuff from his sister is more about wankers exploiting a fairly vulnerable woman.

So I went over and talked to them. Wasn't easy - the first thing I got was the line about Muslims being exempt cos they could say the spare room was a prayer room. I said I was sure that wasn't true (first time I'd heard it) but when she insisted it was I said ok then, I'll go away and find out and if it's true that's completely unfair and we'll make it part of the campaign (knowing it wouldn't be true). And it went on like that - she never said anything beyond the myths - if she'd said anything outright racist I would have had a go but she didn't. She'd just been fed a right wing line explaining the problems she faces.

Now, there hasn't been a Damascene conversion or anything, the myths still come out from time to time but we just deal with them sensibly - don't scream racist but just show the facts so there can be no doubt they are myths. Slowly but surely the rants are moving from being against immigrants being given preferential treatment to the rich/bankers/Tories and she voted Labour at the county council elections (would definitely have been BNP or UKIP a couple of months ago). I've not been involved in anything for a few weeks cos I've got some quite serious personal stuff going on at the moment so I haven't seen her for a bit but I was told the other day that she's joined Unite Community and she's playing a leading role in the bedroom tax campaign. And she's pulling in people who were not especially political but believed a lot of the myths and they're working with members of the SWP (who have, after it being explained to them the importance of being patient, though not needing to pander to outright racism, have been surprisingly sensible in their dealings with her), the SP, anarchists and immigrants who live on the estate. That would have been unthinkable a few months ago.

It's not about preaching Marxism to them or whatever, the people I'm talking about aren't interested in all that (though one day they might, who knows?) but challenging the myths while working with them on a common cause, and letting them come to their own conclusions, to define their own politics through a combination of experience of collective action and better information than they had before (ie cutting through the myths). And the campaigning does seem to be shifting the way they see the world, my mate's suster especially - she's started talking about class in a way she never would have before (would sometimes talk about the white w/c but now it's working class).

I was pleasantly surprised by just how well it is working to be honest - it's far from easy and it's not as much fun as a big demo but it strikes me that it's much more effective. At a counter-demo she'd be on the other side of a fence and there'd be no real chance of any kind of interaction, at least not one that isn't hostile anyway.


----------



## frogwoman (May 28, 2013)




----------



## SpineyNorman (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> How is that funny?


 
The ones on that list aren't, generally, just the soft support who have jumped on it after last week's events. They're the more committed ones - fuck them.


----------



## _angel_ (May 28, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Mainly by not taking any of the issues behind their support seriously and taking the piss out of their lack of education ( wonderful idea that education makes us more correct), clothes and appearance , what they eat and how they speak.


ill fitting suits?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Personally there aren't any Muslims where I live so it really doesn't effect me on a community level. I know a few Muslim people and they're friendly to me.
> 
> I would hate to live in Luton or Bradford or any of these other areas where you get a large Muslim population....


I know loads of people from Luton and many are thoroughly fucked off with the EDL - race relations were good in the town before the EDL came along.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 28, 2013)




----------



## _angel_ (May 28, 2013)

what's the point with the fb/twitter  screengrabs?


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 28, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> what's the point with the fb/twitter screengrabs?


 
They prove that the far right are racist. How else are we supposed to reach such a shocking conclusion?


----------



## Tom A (May 28, 2013)

manny-p said:


> You got more information about the 2009 manchester thing?


Here: http://www.afed.org.uk/blog/state/1...ate-with-police-on-anti-edl-mobilisation.html



> The Anarchist Federation condemns the group Unite Against Fascism (UAF) who, on Saturday 31st October at a mobilisation against the English Defence League (EDL) in Leeds city centre, openly handed one of our members over to the police. Several UAF stewards, including the head of UAF Leeds, physically prevented our member from rejoining the cordon, and then called the police over to arrest him. We will not tolerate collaboration with the state to halt  the activity of genuine anti-fascists and ask other progressive organisations to do the same. UAF's policy of negotiating with the state for its public protests is well known, as is its alliance with religious leaders, trade union bureaucrats and politicians. UAF, apart from being nothing more than a front group for the Socialist Workers Party, has never been an effective means to combat the rise of fascism in Britain nor does it offer anything to working class communities.
> 
> _D. Yates, National Secretary (Anarchist Federation, UK) _


----------



## DrRingDing (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> A good friend of mine lives in Bethnal Green and I feel uneasy just being there.


 
Why do you feel uneasy? I used to live in Bethnal Green.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 28, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Why do you feel uneasy? I used to live in Bethnal Green.


Allergy to children's museums.


----------



## Streathamite (May 28, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Why do you feel uneasy? I used to live in Bethnal Green.


I'd like an answer to this one as well, as I have years' experience of the area, and has never once felt uneasy


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> what's the point with the fb/twitter screengrabs?


 
Added interest from an original source that I normally wouldn't believe if someone told me so. Specific reference; 'kicked out of Job Centre for wearing EDL tat top. Wasn't kicked out clearly, but was probably informed that her EDL top could be seen as offensive to other customers and asked to leave etc, etc. If only Angel had chosen to wear a "paki nija [sic] suit" and then there wouldn't have been a problem.


----------



## xes (May 28, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> what's the point with the fb/twitter screengrabs?


They can be lollsome, in a facepalmy way. I mean, c'mon, how can you be done for slander for refusing someone a service based on the message their clothing portrayed.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Why do you feel uneasy? I used to live in Bethnal Green.


 

Me too.


----------



## Streathamite (May 28, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I know loads of people from Luton and many are thoroughly fucked off with the EDL - race relations were good in the town before the EDL came along.


Yes, i grew up near there, as you and I have discussed, and race was simply never an issue, until these wankers started up


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

Many "nija suit wearing paki's" in Bethnal Green?


----------



## Streathamite (May 28, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Allergy to children's museums.


nice one!


----------



## Dogsauce (May 28, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Ooooh, one of the ones in Sheffield lives right in the middle of one of the areas with the biggest Muslim populations, [....] I think he may be moving house before too long


 
Bear in mind that the list is supposedly quite old (leaked previously) and there's a reasonable chance people won't live at the addresses quoted anymore, especially given people are more and more mobile thesedays due to all kinds of pressures.  A good chance of any retribution hitting the wrong target, or hitting the innocent parents of a teenager led into the EDL by friends, which is out of order.

I don't really like the idea of these lists coming out and what it can entail, as the same techniques can work the other way (Redwatch etc.) - yet at the same time know it throws a bit of a spanner in their organisation and sows a bit of chaos, which is useful (certainly harmed the BNP quite a bit, at least any image of competancy) - and is also a deterrant to fundraising and membership.  It won't however defeat the attitudes behind racism - some of the motivation for EDL types comes from feeling 'victimised', and this plays right into their hands.


----------



## ddraig (May 28, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> what's the point with the fb/twitter screengrabs?


 what is your issue with them? mate of yours?


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2013)

youtube links


----------



## J Ed (May 28, 2013)

LP isn't the only self-publicist trying to hitch themselves to the recent far-right backlash http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-english-defence-league-1912413


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

ddraig said:


> what is your issue with them? mate of yours?


 

Slacktivist sub-political stuff, I'd wager is her criticism.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 28, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> Bear in mind that the list is supposedly quite old (leaked previously) and there's a reasonable chance people won't live at the addresses quoted anymore, especially given people are more and more mobile thesedays due to all kinds of pressures. A good chance of any retribution hitting the wrong target, or hitting the innocent parents of a teenager led into the EDL by friends, which is out of order.
> 
> I don't really like the idea of these lists coming out and what it can entail, as the same techniques can work the other way (Redwatch etc.) - yet at the same time know it throws a bit of a spanner in their organisation and sows a bit of chaos, which is useful (certainly harmed the BNP quite a bit, at least any image of competancy) - and is also a deterrant to fundraising and membership. It won't however defeat the attitudes behind racism - some of the motivation for EDL types comes from feeling 'victimised', and this plays right into their hands.


 
I'm not advocating it - it's not going to do anyone any good beyond a bit of personal satisfaction for whoever carries it out anyway - I'm just predicting it might happen. And if you read the next post I made on this thread after the one you quoted you'll see that I prefer a different approach, one that does have the potential to cut across the drivers for their support that you mention.


----------



## ddraig (May 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Slacktivist sub-political stuff, I'd wager is her criticism.


 
i knows
anyway fwiw i have seen bob in the flesh out in the street when the cunts came to our city and he brought others with him as well

not that he needs to justify himself


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

ddraig said:


> i knows
> anyway fwiw i have seen bob in the flesh out in the street when the cunts came to our city and he brought others with him as well
> 
> not that he needs to justify himself


 

Well we have to argue over _something? _

Can't speak for angel obvs but I think the criticism is based around pushing particular stereotypes of the edl as a form of anti-fascism. It might be amusing, to some, but not much else.


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

Looks all very cuddly and controlled. Lennon's probably has had some time to study and reflect while he's been away, with perhaps some specialised, extra-curricular teaching to guide him? Wonder how his forthcoming appearance in court will turn out?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

I certainly don't see people being put off the edl because we laugh at what they say on facebook. It's just lefty voyeurism.


----------



## ddraig (May 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well we have to argue over _something? _
> 
> Can't speak for angel obvs but I think the criticism is based around pushing particular stereotypes of the edl as a form of anti-fascism. It might be amusing, to some, but not much else.


 

i knows, easy dig to make


----------



## october_lost (May 28, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Why do you feel uneasy? I used to live in Bethnal Green.


I think this boils down to how people see community cohesion etc. Being a white person from a largely white town, it's easy to recognise that the normalcy a white person would anticipate in their environment and the shock when it's not there. It's further compounded because cities, where most migrants live, tend to breed the worst in people. Gangs, mental illnesses, homelessness etc.

If anything I tend to find that the population of London is so transient, and so messed about by market forces, that people can't be too picky about where they live and it's much less segregated than the North West. The problems there are much worse.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> from Bones blog, some people are delusional on here if they can't realise that to some the EDL is becoming almost respectable.


 
And this sort of thing sends out a strong media message from the EDL -  "we're not racists really just hate the killers - UK Islam sort your house out"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552


----------



## sim667 (May 28, 2013)

The EVF just popped up on my twitter, who are these cunts then?


----------



## Ranbay (May 28, 2013)

Splitters


----------



## J Ed (May 28, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> And this sort of thing sends out a strong media message from the EDL - "we're not racists really just hate the killers - UK Islam sort your house out"
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552


 


Mo Ansar's mate Hamza Tzortzis has said that if he wasn't a Muslim then he'd be a member of the EDL in the past. Decent amount of common ground here I suspect


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> And this sort of thing sends out a strong media message from the EDL - "we're not racists really just hate the killers - UK Islam sort your house out.


 
It's a message that the state will not tolerate and crack down hard on those who either promote, or carry out communal violence of any kind, including the neo-fascists, who have reportedly infiltrated the ranks of the EDL to administrative level. You one?


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

audiotech said:


> It's a message that the state will not tolerate and crack down hard on those who either promote, or carry out communal violence of any kind, including the neo-fascists, who have reportedly infiltrated the ranks of the EDL to administrative level. You one?


 
Sorry don't understand your question - one what ?


----------



## ddraig (May 28, 2013)

sim667 said:


> The EVF just popped up on my twitter, who are these cunts then?


 
english volunteer force iirc


----------



## pesh (May 28, 2013)

Anonymous just released a load of the EDL leaderships personal details, phone numbers and email addresses as well as the names and addresses of a load of their donors... 

http://pastebin.com/Mbc0r8rD


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 28, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> Sorry don't understand your question - one what ?


 
I think he's asking if you're fash.

I think you've completely misunderstood what he was saying audiotech - he's criticising people who print/pose for those kinds of images because they help the EDL present themselves as only anti-extremists, rather than out and out racists/islamophobes. He's not saying that he actually thinks they're only against extremism.

Not sure where the stuff in your post about the state tolerating/not tolerating extremism comes from though


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2013)

> The creator of a far right extremist group that has promised to ‘arrest’ Islamist cleric Anjem Choudary by 6pm tomorrow if the Met police do not is a Belfast-based anti-abortion militant with close links to paramilitary groups.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-islamist-cleric-anjem-choudary-8634812.html


 
Pity Tatchell doesn't do it


----------



## treelover (May 28, 2013)

> I think he's asking if you're fash.


 
too much of this shite on here...


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think he's asking if you're fash.
> 
> I think you've completely misunderstood what he was saying audiotech - he's criticising people who print/pose for those kinds of images because they help the EDL present themselves as only anti-extremists, rather than out and out racists/islamophobes. He's not saying that he actually thinks they're only against extremism.
> 
> Not sure where the stuff in your post about the state tolerating/not tolerating extremism comes from though


 
Thanks Spiney for clearly setting out what I meant - never been called a fascist before in my life - in my youth spent two active years in SWP / ANL and helped set up SUSAN - Surrey University Against the Nazis. Retired from active politics now but firmly mentally and attitudinally on the left. Yes TS loves to generate confusing messages to muddy the waters that he's and ou and out hate 'em all racist such as this ....http://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1927-edl-hate-all-muslims-apparently


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 28, 2013)

People who think the EDL are respectable or near respectable are just not abreast of the facts in any meaningful way. People not being abreast of the facts in any meaningful way is typical enough, it's hardly exclusive to matters of extremism.

A photo of Mo Ansar and Lennon together doesn't demonstrate much. It's pretty clear from reading MA's stuff that he thinks Lennon is a lunatic. That's because MA has a functioning cerebrum.


----------



## machine cat (May 28, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Personally there aren't any Muslims where I live so it really doesn't effect me on a community level. I know a few Muslim people and they're friendly to me.
> 
> *I would hate to live in Luton or Bradford or any of these other areas where you get a large Muslim population. I'm not sure if that's prejudiced or not but that's just how I feel. A good friend of mine lives in Bethnal Green and I feel uneasy just being there.*
> 
> ...


 
I live in an area with a large Muslim population and two mosques within a hundred metre radius of my house, and feel completely at home here. I don't feel scared, I don't feel uneasy, and I don't give a fuck about the amount of Muslim people who live here. It's home.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 28, 2013)

ffs...
I'm so getting flashbacks as how the man in black was able to divert attention from the goal yesterday..
well done Oswald....
this thread just got kettled


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> Sorry don't understand your question - one what ?


 
Your avatar suggests you have Buddhist leanings. Really? Dalai Lamas, a pretty ruthless bunch. Apparently, the first one killed his own son. The fifth had all rivals destroyed to preserve his own power. The 13th was very unlucky, specifically for the Ambans and Chinese, as he expelled all of them from Tibet after declaring independence. The 14th and present Dalai Lama fled Tibet fearing for his life in the wake of the revolt that took place there in 1959 and has led a government in exile from India ever since.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not sure that there is any need to pander - what is needed is some social or political _interaction_, some basis for discovering and _acting on each others politics_ without shouting _nazi_ or _you're not english anymore_ at each other. Taking part in the ongoing violent polarisation just pushes any possibility of that taking place further away. None of this means that you have to take a soft line or pander, it means that our views can only be recognised as legitimate through meaningful interaction however much they are rejected. I saw the shocked looks on the people opposing the edl down here on saturday and the anger on the other side - the real gulf between them was utterly demoralising - and in the longer term, damaging to everyone.
> 
> I made a point of talking to two lads in evf hoodies and asking them what was going on, they were so angry against 'rich students' and insisted over half an hour or so that they totally and utterly rejected racism (that doesn't mean that i bought it, just that they are aware that racism is not politically acceptable) - we were getting somewhere when an older bloke spotted what was going on and picked a fight with me in order to make them choose between standing with him or having dialogue with me, he spotted the danger of what was going on. I know that's a tiny and maybe not representative example but fuck me, something needs to happen on this ground before its too late.


 
Some of the wisest words I've ever read on here.


----------



## cantsin (May 28, 2013)

machine cat said:


> I live in an area with a large Muslim population and two mosques within a hundred metre radius of my house, and feel completely at home here. I don't feel scared, I don't feel uneasy, and I don't give a fuck about the amount of Muslim people who live here. It's home.


 

old Oswald here has to be a special kind of div to feel 'uneasy' in Bethnal Green, unless blokes in NHS specs with quiffs and pop up art galleries is spooking him.


----------



## machine cat (May 28, 2013)

cantsin said:


> old Oswald here has to be a special kind of div to feel 'uneasy' in Bethnal Green, unless blokes in NHS specs with quiffs and pop up art galleries is spooking him.


 
I have never been to Bethnal Green so I can't comment, but as I live in a northern town, I assume the population of my community to be much small than a London District. Nevertheless, I might be part of a racial minority here, but never feel uncomfortable.


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> too much of this shite on here...


 
And bullshit too. The poster stated this:



> And this sort of thing sends out a strong media message from the EDL


It was a fair question given the quote and despite the posters protestations I still haven't called him a fascist. I'm enquiring if he has Buddhist leanings.


----------



## killer b (May 28, 2013)

you got the wrong end of the stick audiotech. stop being a dick.


----------



## sim667 (May 28, 2013)

ddraig said:


> english volunteer force iirc





> NO SHARIA LAW IN THE UK EVER!
> INSTANT HALT TO ALL IMMIGRATION!
> 
> NO MORE CONSTRUCTION OF MOSQUES!
> ...



Sound like a lovely lot. 

Spelt paedophile wrong too.


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

Ohm.....


----------



## DrRingDing (May 28, 2013)

october_lost said:


> I think this boils down to how people see community cohesion etc. Being a white person from a largely white town, it's easy to recognise that the normalcy a white person would anticipate in their environment and the shock when it's not there. It's further compounded because cities, where most migrants live, tend to breed the worst in people. Gangs, mental illnesses, homelessness etc.


 
There's a few things in that I'd like to question.

I went straight from living in a very white place all my life to Bethnal Green.....and I don't think cities "tend to breed the worst in people".


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Your avatar suggests you have Buddhist leanings. Really? Dalai Lamas, a pretty ruthless bunch. Apparently, the first one killed his own son. The fifth had all rivals destroyed to preserve his own power. The 13th was very unlucky, specifically for the Ambans and Chinese, as he expelled all of them from Tibet after declaring independence. The 14th and present Dalai Lama fled Tibet fearing for his life in the wake of the revolt that took place there in 1959 and has led a government in exile from India ever since.


 
Well thanks for getting inside my mind audiotech - I have Buddhist leanings yes but that doesn't mean I support or have truck with the many institutional and historical emebellishments that have occurred over the centuries since the Buddha. Dalai Lama's in the past were probably no better than popes or other institutional religious leaders. What I can say for certain is no true Buddhist (as opposed to some cultural state Buddhist hierarchies) would have any truck with fascism or racism and nor do I.

When I was younger I'm sad to say I got a kick out of going out on demos looking for a ruck - Lewisham - NF , Southall - NF- Blair Peach , Poll Tax Riots et al we wanted to engage with the enemy and clear the fascists off the streets. I'm not sure that we helped increase the peace or improved the communities where we engaged 'with the enemy' - but what was true was that the adrenalin surge and sense of excitement was palpable and we all visibly got off on it. I will never forget the Poll Tax Riots in Trafalgar Square when me and a few comrades went for a bite to eat and returned to see the portakabins on the side of Northumberland Avenue on fire - fire on the South African Embassy and stuff from the portakabins such as fire extinquishers raining down on the police. I was just yards away from a scaffolding pole being thrust through a police car window. I realised then that mob rule could lead to people dying yet we were high as a kites on the excitement. Not a good mix. Which is why I found Spiney's post of constructive engagement so inspiring.

The atmosphere is getting quite ugly now you only have to listen to LBC to see the virulent views being aired and being given air time. It would only take a few more copycat attacks for things to really kick off. What's needed now is cooler hearts and a move back to the tolerant country that the UK is. Most British muslims along with most British 'whatever they are' just want to get on with each other and get on with life. It must be pretty difficult being a visibly muslim person at the moment with accusatory stares, attacks on mosques and the like.

Peace and love and all that .....


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 28, 2013)

The Britain first (BF for short, wonder what they were thinking of with those initials?) statement that they will arrest Choudary is histerical. I can't wait. Maybe they think he is Bin Laden or something and not just a tool.

Can they deliver? Because if they don't they will be instantly forgotten.

Lots of freaks crawling out of the woodwork since last week.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

cantsin said:


> old Oswald here has to be a special kind of div to feel 'uneasy' in Bethnal Green, unless blokes in NHS specs with quiffs and pop up art galleries is spooking him.


 

Exactly. And quite uncoincidentally, I'm sure, the only political extremism ever to haunt Bethnal Green has been of the Oswald Mosely variety!


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think he's asking if you're fash.
> 
> I think you've completely misunderstood what he was saying audiotech - he's criticising people who print/pose for those kinds of images because they help the EDL present themselves as only anti-extremists, rather than out and out racists/islamophobes. He's not saying that he actually thinks they're only against extremism.
> 
> Not sure where the stuff in your post about the state tolerating/not tolerating extremism comes from though


 
Probably from a copy of 'Hope not Hate' magazine I've read in the past.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Your avatar suggests you have Buddhist leanings. Really? Dalai Lamas, a pretty ruthless bunch. Apparently, the first one killed his own son. The fifth had all rivals destroyed to preserve his own power. The 13th was very unlucky, specifically for the Ambans and Chinese, as he expelled all of them from Tibet after declaring independence. The 14th and present Dalai Lama fled Tibet fearing for his life in the wake of the revolt that took place there in 1959 and has led a government in exile from India ever since.


 
Plus that's the equivalent of saying you a commie then - what about your Stalin ....


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

Ohm....

Edit: And Stalin killed more German Communists than Hitler ever did. Great commie that Stalin. An old Hungarian acquaintance had a shirt with a picture of Stalin stencilled on it and a swastika too. The symbolism wasn't lost.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 28, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> in my youth spent two active years in SWP / ANL and helped set up SUSAN - Surrey University Against the Nazis.


 
Are you anti fash? "yes mate SUSAN (Surrey University Against the Nazis)".


----------



## cesare (May 28, 2013)

I bet it turns out you both know each other from way back


----------



## Citizen66 (May 28, 2013)

SUSAN re-enactmant society.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Are you anti fash? "yes mate SUSAN (Surrey University Against the Nazis)".


 
A rather contrived acronym Surrey UniverSity Against the Nazis - Colin Tipton was our political guru - just googled him and sad to say he died this year.

And by the way audiotech it's Omm not Ohm which is a unit of electrical measurement.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2013/feb/01/colin-tipton-obituary


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 28, 2013)

Comedy Gold.

Britan first: Dealine 6.p.m. Tomorrow. Countdown in motion, only 19 hours left until Choudary's arrest



> If that deadline comes and passes, then I and me and a team of Britain first activists will go and arrest that bastard cos we know where he lives, we know where he frequents, we've got all the research behind us


 
Videos had 10,000 views already.

!


----------



## audiotech (May 28, 2013)

I was around in '77 and through to 1990 ibilly99 and I'm happy to report neither me, nor any of the people I was active with, even when it got physical, "got off" on the violence. Ohm....


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Comedy Gold.
> 
> Britan first: Dealine 6.p.m. Tomorrow. Countdown in motion, only 19 hours left until Choudary's arrest
> 
> ...





Even Littlejohn at the Mail beleives he's an MI5 asset

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...LITTLEJOHN-When-said-fight-beaches-Dave-.html
_What kind of work is he out of? OK, so you wouldn’t want him driving a forklift in a fertiliser factory. But he does, allegedly, have a law degree. So a little light conveyancing shouldn’t be beyond him._
_I remain convinced that the only way he has got away with it for so long is because he’s a fully paid-up MI5 agent, like his mate Abu Qatada. What other explanation is there_


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

audiotech said:


> I was around in '77 and through to 1990 ibilly99 and I'm happy to report neither me, nor any of the people I was active with, even when it got physical, "got off" on the violence. Ohm....


 
Probably more accurate to say their was an adrenalin charged atmosphere which was not conducive to constructive debate and could potentially lead to violence.
Omm

Lewisham 1977


----------



## sim667 (May 28, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Comedy Gold.
> 
> Britan first: Dealine 6.p.m. Tomorrow. Countdown in motion, only 19 hours left until Choudary's arrest
> 
> ...




Did that start with the music from Jurassic park?


----------



## snadge (May 28, 2013)

More of these wankers that are going to split tory cunt votes please.


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## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

When are all these far-right groups going to coalesce into a DisRespect Coalition.


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## Anudder Oik (May 28, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Did that start with the music from Jurassic park?


 
Could be, but I think they stand to win by jazzing it up a bit by borrowing the ambient music from this *citizens arrest* video, or any porn film soundtrack for that matter. It really kicks in at 0:34



0:50 _"the suspect is cuffed, taken to jail and booked"_. In Choudary's case that will be Booked, by channel 4 for an interview.


----------



## ibilly99 (May 28, 2013)

Britain First has it's own Poundland version of Braveheart - they should have been historically against all these numerous foreign invasions that suppressed and slaughtered the indigent inhabitants (interesting that they leave the Thatch out at the end - was that oversight or a deliberate snub?)


----------



## snadge (May 28, 2013)

Love the flash to the Bayeux Tapestry, why aren't they hounding those immigrants out?


----------



## editor (May 29, 2013)

Full statement from Anonymous:



> Good morning members, and leaders of the English Defense League.
> 
> We are Anonymous UK. We have been patiently observing your organisation, as you have inflated, indoctrinating our young with your criminal mindset.
> 
> ...


http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/05...stematic-and-comprehensive-dissemination-your


----------



## butchersapron (May 29, 2013)

What do they think dissemination means then?


----------



## weepiper (May 29, 2013)

God. Anonymous give me the dry boke. Do they honestly think any EDL member is going to read that and think anything other than 'stupid posh kids, fuck 'em'?


----------



## cesare (May 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What do they think dissemination means then?


Odd choice of word, unless they've decided to spread the EDL message far and wide. I wonder if they meant decimation.


----------



## killer b (May 29, 2013)

> We are Anonymous.
> We are Legion.
> We require a proof reader, union rates paid, apply to the address below


.


----------



## JimW (May 29, 2013)

Artificial insemination - they're going to wank on about them for a bit.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 29, 2013)

Punctuation is horrible, that was a hard read.

 Is it possible that it's been translated? Or maybe written in a deliberately awkward way to disguise a writing style that could give away the perp (given they can do forensics on this sort of thing)?


----------



## audiotech (May 29, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> And by the way audiotech it's Omm not Ohm which is a unit of electrical measurement.


 
Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.

A luta continua, vitória é certa.


----------



## cesare (May 29, 2013)

Best wishes, audiotech.


----------



## elbows (May 29, 2013)

All your cult discombobulations are belong to us.


----------



## JimW (May 29, 2013)

cesare said:


> Best wishes, audiotech.


 
What cesare said, look after yourself matey.


----------



## Favelado (May 29, 2013)

Fair play to them. They can be as posh or punctuation-free as they like for me.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 29, 2013)

weepiper said:


> God. Anonymous give me the dry boke. Do they honestly think any EDL member is going to read that and think anything other than 'stupid posh kids, fuck 'em'?


 
dem stupid posh kids may be rattling them...



Although as yet nothing really new has been published that wasn’t in existence since the last major attack on them late 2011 by TeaMp0isoN ....


----------



## classicdish (May 29, 2013)

Someone has posted EDL phone numbers, addresses and stuff about criminal records: http://pastebin.com/Mbc0r8rD

edit - it might just be an old hack reposted (ie. TeaMp0isoN) rather than anything new


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 29, 2013)

pesky kids!


----------



## BigTom (May 29, 2013)

OswaldMosley said:


> Personally there aren't any Muslims where I live so it really doesn't effect me on a community level. I know a few Muslim people and they're friendly to me.
> 
> I would hate to live in Luton or Bradford or any of these other areas where you get a large Muslim population. I'm not sure if that's prejudiced or not but that's just how I feel. A good friend of mine lives in Bethnal Green and I feel uneasy just being there.
> 
> ...



I live in Birmingham, in balsall heath which is majority Muslim. 
I'm going to say straight up that I think feeling uneasy in Bethnal green or at the thought of large numbers of Muslims moving into your town is prejudiced, though I think there are some genuine concerns underlying that prejudice.

So you mention Asian grooming gangs, but no concerns over white paedophiles, especially in light of all the saville/yewtree stuff?
Sexual assault/abuse is most likely carried out by someone known to the abused. Teenagers are groomed by people of all different races/religions, but the cases of Asian groomers are pushed by racist groups who ignore the cases of white groomers, even the sex offenders within their own ranks.

I live in a city that at the last election had groups putting up stickers saying "don't vote in the kaffir election" and very recently had a trial of Islamist terrorists who wanted to blow shit up. I'm not in any way in denial about the existence or issues of extremist Islam but I think it is best tackled within the Islamic community for the most part.

With anjem and co I reckon they are best off ignored and I think you could ignore them to a large extent, they are more like the westboro church than the edl. You can't ignore the edl and fellow travelers though because if you are not white they will attack you and this violence has to be defended against.
The parallels in Islamist groups are the terrorists who are best of being dealt with by the police, and the numpties who tried to claim they were imposing shariah law in some area of London before being arrested and also told by the mosque to stop being idiots. Best dealt with through the mosque at this time. If it was a large group then wider community involvement might be effective but as it is now, I don't think so.

Muslims are like any other large group, mostly largely decent people, some angels, some dick heads. If large numbers of Muslims moved to your town I think very little would change, other than a bit more traffic on Fridays. What do you think would change if large numbers of Muslims moved to your town?


----------



## ibilly99 (May 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.
> 
> A luta continua, vitória é certa.


 
Best wishes Audiotech have sent you a pm.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 29, 2013)

weepiper said:


> God. Anonymous give me the dry boke. Do they honestly think any EDL member is going to read that and think anything other than 'stupid posh kids, fuck 'em'?


Utter wankers


----------



## bignose1 (May 29, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> A rather contrived acronym Surrey UniverSity Against the Nazis - Colin Tipton was our political guru - just googled him and sad to say he died this year.
> 
> And by the way audiotech it's Omm not Ohm which is a unit of electrical measurement.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2013/feb/01/colin-tipton-obituary


 
No he is in the resistance


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2013)

weepiper said:


> God. Anonymous give me the dry boke. Do they honestly think any EDL member is going to read that and think anything other than 'stupid posh kids, fuck 'em'?


So you'd prefer they were doing stupid posh things then.


----------



## bignose1 (May 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.
> 
> A luta continua, vitória é certa.


 

kin el teckers...hope your going to be ok...Although not the same as what your saying my younger bro had a sub ''arachnoid' aneuryism at 28..he's 52 now and still a twat but we love him. ( we thought a spider had crawled in through his ear). None the less when people hear 'brain' it does get them thinking the worse but without knowing the full ins and outs of what youve been told..theres still loads Im sure they can do these days....like it was still pretty good 25 years ago when our kid took bad albeit he was in Germany and recovered there.
Hope you get back on track.


----------



## cantsin (May 29, 2013)

weepiper said:


> God. Anonymous give me the dry boke. Do they honestly think any EDL member is going to read that and think anything other than 'stupid posh kids, fuck 'em'?


 

'Stupid Posh Kids'  ?'   Sabu' , main Lulzec / anon bod arrested last year ( and grassed    ) was an  'unemployed father of two ' , where do you get the impression they're posh ? ( most seem young , agreed ) .


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 29, 2013)

*Heads up!!!*

Sue Evans on Facebook is mining info for the EDL.. I note 'she' has 238 mutual friends with me for example ( I was never a friend)
'Its' profile pic has been confirmed as a stock photo

'thing' is also a friend of the bould Tommy too ...


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 29, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> Britain First has it's own Poundland version of Braveheart - they should have been historically against all these numerous foreign invasions that suppressed and slaughtered the indigent inhabitants (interesting that they leave the Thatch out at the end - was that oversight or a deliberate snub?)




Is that the thundercats logo at the end?


----------



## DrRingDing (May 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.
> 
> A luta continua, vitória é certa.


 
Yea, best of luck audiotech!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2013)

cantsin said:


> 'Stupid Posh Kids' ?' Sabu' , main Lulzec / anon bod arrested last year ( and grassed  ) was an 'unemployed father of two ' , where do you get the impression they're posh ? ( most seem young , agreed ) .


compared to weepiper anyone on the dole is posh?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 29, 2013)

cantsin said:


> 'Stupid Posh Kids' ?' Sabu' , main Lulzec / anon bod arrested last year ( and grassed  ) was an 'unemployed father of two ' , where do you get the impression they're posh ? ( most seem young , agreed ) .


 
The pseudo-intellectual wordsmithing and posturing smacks of suburban teenager.  I'd have likely come up with something similar in my sixth-form days.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> The pseudo-intellectual wordsmithing and posturing smacks of suburban teenager. I'd have likely come up with something similar in my sixth-form days.


anyone who uses the word 'wordsmith' or a variant thereof deserves a smack as a pseudo-intellectual


----------



## manny-p (May 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.
> 
> A luta continua, vitória é certa.


 
Take care mate. My thoughts are with you.


----------



## cantsin (May 29, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> The pseudo-intellectual wordsmithing and posturing smacks of suburban teenager. I'd have likely come up with something similar in my sixth-form days.


 

I'll have to take your word on this six form wordsmithing bussiness, but even if there a lot of 'suburban teenagers' involved in Anon, they're the IT workers of today / tommorrow, nothing posh about it,  and if they're using their skills/ingenuity/dead time to harass wrong uns- from scientologists to EDL leadership goons to US football team rapists, good luck to them.


----------



## _angel_ (May 29, 2013)

ddraig said:


> what is your issue with them? mate of yours?


only an idiot would think that


----------



## ibilly99 (May 29, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Is that the thundercats logo at the end?


 
This also implies that they would have been happy to be feudal peasants with little or no rights - God speed the Armada and save us from the devilish papist Spaniards !


----------



## elbows (May 29, 2013)

Best of luck audio tech. Waiting for health news myself, no fun.

As for anonymous, they are bound to get some stick for the self-aggrandising hyperbole that has become a template for their messages. Anonymity can also be a weakness since anybody could choose to publish a message as them.


----------



## ddraig (May 29, 2013)

_angel_ said:


> only an idiot would think that


 
who thought that? did you miss the question marks?


----------



## _angel_ (May 29, 2013)

elbows said:


> Best of luck audio tech. Waiting for health news myself, no fun.


 
yes me too


----------



## cantsin (May 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.
> 
> A luta continua, vitória é certa.


 

seems like half of us are crocked on here at the moment, doesnt sound like much fun at your end, but best of luck, and gawd bless the NHS ( the op i'm booked in for at the end of June would cost 30-40 k in the US according t'web. )


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.
> 
> A luta continua, vitória é certa.


 
Good luck mate, hope all goes well for you.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 29, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> Which is why I found Spiney's post of constructive engagement so inspiring.


 
Just to clarify, so that there can be no misunderstanding, I wouldn't have taken that approach had she been an out and out fascist or ideological racist of whatever kind. It's not worth it with them.


----------



## DrRingDing (May 29, 2013)

http://whileromeburnsjournal.wordpr...he-anti-edl-counter-demo-at-downing-street-2/

Thoughts?


----------



## krink (May 29, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> http://whileromeburnsjournal.wordpr...he-anti-edl-counter-demo-at-downing-street-2/
> 
> Thoughts?


 
the end bit is good about responding


----------



## weepiper (May 29, 2013)

cantsin said:


> I'll have to take your word on this six form wordsmithing bussiness, but even if there a lot of 'suburban teenagers' involved in Anon, they're the IT workers of today / tommorrow, nothing posh about it, and if they're using their skills/ingenuity/dead time to harass wrong uns- from scientologists to EDL leadership goons to US football team rapists, good luck to them.


 
I just think their big wordy statements are pointless willy-waving. None of their targets are going to sit and read that and think 'here, wait a minute, I've actually angered them considerably and summoned their wrath, ooh shiters, they're gonna expose my falsities now'. If they want to list people's names and addresses or whatever fine, the big dramatic pish is silly.



Pickman's model said:


> compared to weepiper anyone on the dole is posh?


 
Aye ok then.


----------



## Streathamite (May 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.
> 
> A luta continua, vitória é certa.


really sorry to hear that, best of luck and take care


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 29, 2013)

cantsin said:


> 'Stupid Posh Kids' ?' Sabu' , main Lulzec / anon bod arrested last year ( and grassed  ) was an 'unemployed father of two ' , where do you get the impression they're posh ? ( most seem young , agreed ) .


 
I don't know if you'd noticed, but the world as perceived by EDLers has only the mildest passing resemblance to reality. Doesn't matter what the truth is, I reckon weepiper is right - that's how they'll interpret it.


----------



## Fedayn (May 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> compared to weepiper anyone on the dole is posh?


 

Eh?


----------



## Ranbay (May 29, 2013)

It's not just you! http://www.englishdefenceleague.org looks down from here.


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yep, as the bedroom tax stuff was starting to happen a mate I went to college with got in touch with me to say his mum and his sister (who live on one of the poorest estates in the country) were both going to be hit by the bedroom tax. I knew about his sister because he'd told me he was worried that she was falling in with the far-right and asked me for advice on it - she'd been around the fringes of the EDL and then moved in with a bloke who seemed to be kind of the unofficial leader of the NWI in their town (not going to say where cos I don't want any of them to figure out who she is but those who know me will probably be able to guess - it's somewhere where the BNP were very strong pre-meltdown).
> 
> He asked me whether I agreed with it (bedroom tax) and I explained I thought it stank and was torn as to whether to offer to talk to them about setting up a campaign on their estate. But in the end I thought fuck it, he's a good mate and the stuff from his sister is more about wankers exploiting a fairly vulnerable woman.
> 
> ...


 
The toppest of top bananas that is.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> Eh?


 
weepiper said he didn't like anonymous who were a load of stupid posh kids

someone else pointed out that they weren't that posh giving the example of a dolee dad who'd apparently been up for anonymous activities

so i asked whether people on were on the rock were posh compared to weepiper


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 29, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It's not just you! http://www.englishdefenceleague.org looks down from here.


 



> @Op__EDL
> EDL websites now starting to load (slowly) again after an hour long DDoS attack. Nice little warm up before tonights leak.


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thanks for pointing that out ibilly99. A one time apprentice electrician and at that time it was the summer of love, hippy's and things you see. Also, I don't want to hark on about this on more than a couple of threads and there will be no more mention of it here, but I've recently been told that after a CT scan of my head there suggests the presence of a "huge arachnoid cyst" and "ischemic damage" to the brain. I will be seeing a report of a more detailed MRI scan at the end of the week. These are both very likely affecting my thought processes. My own experience in fact tells me they are. My apologies if I have offended you in anyway. Please no more comments on this. After ten years of posting on here I've been informed that I've now reached "old timer" status. An opportunity methinks to take my leave and wish you all well in your endeavors.
> 
> A luta continua, vitória é certa.


 
Surprisingly common (just under 2% in blokes), although most are small, and asymptomatic. The good thing about being so common is that the procedure to 'decompress' them is carried out by surgeons pretty frequently. Frequently performed procedures evolve (and improve) more quickly, and have better outcomes - for obvious reasons.

Patients often find that effects on their behaviour and thinking are reversed after having the cyst decompressed.

The brain's remarkably resilient. My ex-wife had an undiagnosed sub-arachnoid aneurysm that blew one night and almost killed her. That was a far more 'extreme' thing iykwim, but what was remarkable was the effect of what the docs described to me as 'bruising on the brain'. After the emergency op (ambulance to DGH, transfer to specialist neuro hospital, straight to theatre situation) she was totally incapacitated. Language centres screwed so talking gibberish, balance screwed so couldn't stand or walk, unable to differentiate between reality and fiction, no concept of the difference between past and present. This was the case for many months. But as the 'bruising' subsided those functions gradually returned to close to normal.

My point being that although what you're going through is fucking awful, if you've been having neuro problems then there are a lot of much worse diagnoses that you could have received. Aneurysms aside, there's not only brain tumours, but a host of other weird and not-so-wonderful neurological conditions that medicine still has virtually no answer to other than making the patient comfortable.

Hope that comes across in some way close to the spirit it's intended in - some cause for relative optimism.

Hope your appointment (tomorrow? Friday?) goes well and you get some concrete info and reassurance from the consultant. The neuro and cardiac surgeons tend to be the best of the best, so don't be shy of making them work for their money with any questions you've got.


----------



## Balbi (May 29, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/events/537497199647064/



> Meet from 10.30 hours at the East-Gate 98-102 Abington Street Northampton NN1 2BP The parade will leave at 11.45 hours and head to all saints church, where flowers will be laid at the war memorial A minutes silence will take place at 12.00 hour,. and then return to the starting point. NO CHANTING OR SINGING. This is a public event and anyone is welcome to join.


 
An hour or more in the pub, and then a march through a pedestrianised area at lunchtime on a Saturday, and then back again.

No chanting or singing. First EDL thing we've had in Npton.


----------



## The39thStep (May 29, 2013)

Balbi said:


> https://www.facebook.com/events/537497199647064/
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Nipton is in Fall Out  New Vegas


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 29, 2013)

> Plans by the far-right English Defence League (EDL) to lay a wreath at Cambridge’s war memorial in memory of murdered soldier Lee Rigby have sparked condemnation.
> The event this Saturday, one of five planned across the region, will clash with one of the city’s biggest celebrations of diversity, Strawberry Fair.


 
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/New...murdered-soldier-Lee-Rigby-20130529160518.htm


----------



## Balbi (May 29, 2013)

Anti-Fascists meeting down by the church/war memorial in Northampton to show displeasure. I think this whole thing's a bear trap, there's little EDL presence and the public sharing of this means that the crowd include those wishing to pay respects, parade for honour - the 'our boys' crap which doesn't usually mean street meatheads.


----------



## Fedayn (May 29, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> weepiper said he didn't like anonymous who were a load of stupid posh kids
> 
> someone else pointed out that they weren't that posh giving the example of a dolee dad who'd apparently been up for anonymous activities
> 
> so i asked whether people on were on the rock were posh compared to weepiper


 

Posh kids can be unemployed.


----------



## Ranbay (May 29, 2013)

www. britainfirst.org/choudary-manhunt-info/


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 29, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> http://whileromeburnsjournal.wordpr...he-anti-edl-counter-demo-at-downing-street-2/
> 
> Thoughts?


 
I disagree with part of this (in bold).


> The singular thing over the last few days has been the seeming scale of the racist reaction to the killing of Lee Rigby. I don’t recall there being a similar level of anti-Muslim backlash even after the more obviously ‘terroristic’ attacks of the 2005 7/7 bombings.* I think a large part of the reason for this is the groundwork that the EDL has laid over the last 4 years*.


 
Personally, when the 2005 bombing happened I was stunned and in disbelief but with this latest killing I have become much more angry. EDL has had nothing to do with my anger or probably the majority of people's in the country. The reasons for being angrier now than before need to be looked into though.

How many were at Whitehall on bank holiday monday? 500? and 99% were males. They are noisy but tiny. What makes them seem artificially bigger is that they can get more people on the street at short notice than the ragged left.

Has Choudary been arrested, yet?

Those tools over at Britain first Said they knew where he lived, now they're asking people to fill in a form on their website if they have information on him.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 29, 2013)

Sick buckets at the ready:


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 29, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> <fash link>


 
Maybe break that link?


----------



## Ranbay (May 30, 2013)

done,

I hope evryone has submitted so clues for them  over 690 done laready.

I said i seen him on TV the other night.


----------



## DrRingDing (May 30, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> How many were at Whitehall on bank holiday monday? 500? and 99% were males.


 
Unfortunately there was a lot more than that.


----------



## bignose1 (May 30, 2013)

Rutita1 said:


> Sick buckets at the ready:




Sikh buckets !!


----------



## J Ed (May 30, 2013)

Sheffield UAF deleting facebook posts on their event that suggest that anti-fascists leave a wreath instead of just stopping the EDL from laying theirs.

Sigh.


----------



## J Ed (May 30, 2013)

It's okay though, while there will be no wreath laying, the EDL narrative will instead be disrupted by people giving out free anti-fascist henna tattoos (I am not making this up)


----------



## DotCommunist (May 30, 2013)

send in the clowns


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It's okay though, while there will be no wreath laying, the EDL narrative will instead be disrupted by people giving out free anti-fascist henna tattoos (I am not making this up)


 
He really isn't making it up - I was the one who recommended laying the wreath. It's OK though, we all remember what Hitler said don't we?

'Only one thing could have stopped our movement - if our adversaries had understood its principle and from the first day got henna tattoos'


----------



## DrRingDing (May 30, 2013)

So what's the EDLs take on Saturday?


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> So what's the EDLs take on Saturday?


 
How do you mean?


----------



## DrRingDing (May 30, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> How do you mean?


 
Are the rank and file making it clear a lot want to go on Saturday? What's the leaders take?

I haven't been looking.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Are the rank and file making it clear a lot want to go on Saturday? What's the leaders take?
> 
> I haven't been looking.


 
Ah right, fuck knows - Bob's probably yer man for that, or malatesta


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Sheffield UAF deleting facebook posts on their event that suggest that anti-fascists leave a wreath instead of just stopping the EDL from laying theirs.
> 
> Sigh.


 
they are deleting posts which suggest that? what happened to debate, is that Scarrot, Stalinist, imo...


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2013)

Meadowhall to Sheffield, what a strange route?

http://forgetoday.com/news/edl-call-off-saturdays-march/

update, its off, the SWP will be upset


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 30, 2013)

UAF have lost the fucking plot.


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2013)

Chap on the left looks like a close relative of our libertarian friend...


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

treelover said:


> they are deleting posts which suggest that? what happened to debate, is that Scarrot, Stalinist, imo...


 
Pretty sure Scarrot's Labour party - but I suspect there'll be an SWP 'footsoldier' running the facebook group. The deleted post was made last night and was a comment on a thread where a lot of EDL had been posting daftness (some of properly offensive stuff that I'd have no problem with them deleting) so it might have been a case of delete the whole thread to get rid of it.

I've made a similar comment again today, only to be told that would be us 'accepting the EDL's narrative' and 'pandering' and that henna tattoos would be a better strategy. Seriously.

Never mind that by saying laying a wreath is the 'EDL narrative' they're slandering anyone who wants to pay their respects as being the same as the EDL.

I fucking dispair at this stuff - the EDL are making out that the only reason they're being opposed is because lefties hate soldiers and britain and support what happened so we don't want to let people pay their respects. And it seems to me that these clowns are doing all they can to lend credence to those claims.

The UAF seem to be getting worse not better. They might as well be signing people up to the EDL round here, they're the best recruiting seargent they'll ever get.


----------



## Athos (May 30, 2013)

I had the dubious pleasure of lunch with Tommy Robinson, today. Well, more accurately, he (and a ulster-tatooed knuckle-dragger) were in the same restaurant. Put me off my food a bit.  He was drinking bottled water, though, so Mrs R might not get a hiding tonight (unless he's back on the nose bag).  Was clutching a big bundle of newspaper;  no doubt hoping to capitalise on the reports of Lee Rigby's death.


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Pretty sure Scarrot's Labour party - but I suspect there'll be an SWP 'footsoldier' running the facebook group. The deleted post was made last night and was a comment on a thread where a lot of EDL had been posting daftness (some of properly offensive stuff that I'd have no problem with them deleting) so it might have been a case of delete the whole thread to get rid of it.
> 
> I've made a similar comment again today, only to be told that would be us 'accepting the EDL's narrative' and 'pandering' and that henna tattoos would be a better strategy. Seriously.
> 
> ...


 
my late father POW, 3etc, was not one for parades, etc but denying left people the opportunity to lay a wreath, he would be pretty angry I imagine


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2013)

Athos said:


> I had the dubious pleasure of lunch with Tommy Robinson, today. Well, more accurately, he (and a ulster-tatooed knuckle-dragger) were in the same restaurant. Put me off my food a bit. He was drinking bottled water, though, so Mrs R might not get a hiding tonight (unless he's back on the nose bag). Was clutching a big bundle of newspaper; no doubt hoping to capitalise on the reports of Lee Rigby's death.


 
Are you writing him off as an idiot, big mistake if you are


----------



## Athos (May 30, 2013)

treelover said:
			
		

> Are you writing him off as an idiot, big mistake if you are



I think he's an idiot (and a cunt). But not writing him off.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

treelover said:


> my late father POW, 3etc, was not one for parades, etc but denying left people the opportunity to lay a wreath, he would be pretty angry I imagine


 
And rightly so. I'm pretty angry about it too and I'm about as far from being sport are troops as it's possible to get.


----------



## J Ed (May 30, 2013)

treelover said:


> my late father POW, 3etc, was not one for parades, etc but denying left people the opportunity to lay a wreath, he would be pretty angry I imagine


 

Yeah, my dad is ex-forces but very anti-racist and I can't even imagine how he would respond if faced with this sort of fuckwittery. 

I think most people's instinct to this behaviour is utter revulsion. I think the best we can hope for is that bystanders are revolted by the UAF and the EDL, not just the UAF.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 30, 2013)

Bottled water you say?

*avoids quoting line from Heathers*


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Yeah, my dad is ex-forces but very anti-racist and I can't even imagine how he would respond if faced with this sort of fuckwittery.
> 
> I think most people's instinct to this behaviour is utter revulsion. I think the best we can hope for is that bystanders are revolted by the UAF and the EDL, not just the UAF.


 
Yeah - it's too late now but in hindsight the best strategy for sensible people might have been to forget the EDL and UAF and organise our own event to pay respects to Rigby _and_ show that we won't allow it to be used to divide us - then we could have differentiated ourselves from both sets of divisive twats.

I'd hoped we might be able to get UAF to deal with this sensibly but I should have realised that was naive to say the least.


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2013)

> We witnessed police officers punching the faces of female activists, and attempted to arrest one Asian female activist for “unladylike” swearing while at the same time fascists could make Nazi salutes at a World War Two memorial unhindered.


 
The police allowed him to do that!


----------



## Corax (May 30, 2013)

treelover said:


> Are you writing him off as an idiot, big mistake if you are


 
Idiots can still be dangerous.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 30, 2013)

Mixed feelings on the whole 'showing respect' thing as it sounds like people being forced to take sides a bit, which I'm not particularly comfortable with - as with enforced minutes of silence at work (not that I can think of any I particularly objected to in principle recently) it starts leaning a bit towards the whole 'with us or against us' thing, and obstructs discussion of causes and motivations.  I think in this case I'd rather things settled down rather than weeks of tributes to an unwilling martyr of the far right.  Poor lad & family could probably do without the political attachment and conflict attached to his death.

I don't really know what the answer is, though I know it has fuckall to do with henna tattoos.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> Mixed feelings on the whole 'showing respect' thing as it sounds like people being forced to take sides a bit, which I'm not particularly comfortable with - as with enforced minutes of silence at work (not that I can think of any I particularly objected to in principle recently) it starts leaning a bit towards the whole 'with us or against us' thing, and obstructs discussion of causes and motivations. I think in this case I'd rather things settled down rather than weeks of tributes to an unwilling martyr of the far right. Poor lad & family could probably do without the political attachment and conflict attached to his death.
> 
> I don't really know what the answer is, though I know it has fuckall to do with henna tattoos.


 
Nobody's demanding everyone 'pays respect' though. People who don't want to come to lay the wreath don't have to. I'd do it though, as far as I'm concerned all it would be is showing respect to the victim of a horrific murder and solidarity to his family.

It's just an effective way of pulling the rug from under the feet of the EDL.

What's most amusing is that some people seem to be implying it would 'put off Muslims' (which sounds a bit, well, racist to me - as if they all think the same way). But the comment I suggested it in has quite a lot of likes - around half of them from people who, judging by their names, are Muslims. None of the people who have taken issue with the suggestion or called it pandering to jingoism had Muslim sounding names.

Especially amusing as if it were anyone else saying it they're exactly the people who would be shouting them down for trampling on Muslim experience of oppression by 'speaking for' them.


----------



## thriller (May 30, 2013)

so where is the leakage of the membership, then?


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

thriller said:


> so where is the leakage of the membership, then?


 
It's an old one - the one teampoison released last year. But if you're interested http://pastebin.com/sQuqmX7M


----------



## renegadechicken (May 30, 2013)

Someone just sent me this link...interesting

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/rss/1110-tommy-robinson-tries-to-cover-up-war-memorial-nazi-salutes


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2013)

> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-yards-overcrowded-mosque.html#ixzz2UkXHEhRk


 
Daily Mail stirring the pot.


----------



## treelover (May 30, 2013)

serving soldiers posting on the FB now from Afghan,

or so they say...


----------



## Dogsauce (May 30, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Nobody's demanding everyone 'pays respect' though. People who don't want to come to lay the wreath don't have to. I'd do it though, as far as I'm concerned all it would be is showing respect to the victim of a horrific murder and solidarity to his family.


 
Has the family asked for this solidarity though?  Is it an organised event by any particular group or authority? Otherwise it feels a bit like the EDL calling the shots, and I feel a bit uneasy about this because it's acknowledging their power.  It'd be easier to defuse things if there was an official public wreath laying or something like that, so it wasn't the agenda set by the EDL and they weren't then seen as the default leaders and shapers of the response to this event.  They're cynical opportunists that don't deserve such elevation.

What I'd most like to see happen would be for the family to step up and call for a halt to the politicalisation of the event and an end to the 'hate marches', but they've probably got other things on their mind right now.

I can appreciate the sentiment behind showing respect, and know why such a death is significant and will draw out solidarity from people who aren't related.  The guy was brutally killed for what he was, not a random killing or a personal killing, but just because of his career, and that's not philosophically a huge difference from people being singled out and killed for being gay or of a particular race. I don't think memorial events and shows of solidarity are inappropriate.  People using memorial events (or creating their own) to promote their kind of hate that also leads to people getting murdered in the street is pretty fucking horrible though.  There's just a danger of making them look like the good guys if they're targetted aggressively at war memorials and so on - and danger that certain sections of the media would look on them sympathetically.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> Has the family asked for this solidarity though? Is it an organised event by any particular group or authority? Otherwise it feels a bit like the EDL calling the shots, and I feel a bit uneasy about this because it's acknowledging their power. It'd be easier to defuse things if there was an official public wreath laying or something like that, so it wasn't the agenda set by the EDL and they weren't then seen as the default leaders and shapers of the response to this event. They're cynical opportunists that don't deserve such elevation.
> 
> What I'd most like to see happen would be for the family to step up and call for a halt to the politicalisation of the event and an end to the 'hate marches', but they've probably got other things on their mind right now.
> 
> I can appreciate the sentiment behind showing respect, and know why such a death is significant and will draw out solidarity from people who aren't related. The guy was brutally killed for what he was, not a random killing or a personal killing, but just because of his career, and that's not philosophically a huge difference from people being singled out and killed for being gay or of a particular race. I don't think memorial events and shows of solidarity are inappropriate. People using memorial events (or creating their own) to promote their kind of hate that also leads to people getting murdered in the street is pretty fucking horrible though. There's just a danger of making them look like the good guys if they're targetted aggressively at war memorials and so on - and danger that certain sections of the media would look on them sympathetically.


 
Give me fucking strength.


----------



## renegadechicken (May 30, 2013)

I'm currently in a 'discussion' with Rafferty's bar, Newcastle, regarding their decision to host the edl, ( its been an ongoing 'discussion' since the 25th may) and I'm sure i read an article that stated they also allowed edl merchandise to be sold from the bar, but for the life of me i cannot find the link, does anyone have it?

It's interesting in that they are saying they only allowed the edl to muster there as the police asked them and they feared for their license if they refused, despite telling me that refusing fascists would not lose them their license.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 30, 2013)

treelover said:


> Daily Mail stirring the pot.


 
That's just about demographic change in one area, isn't it? Divisive disengenuous cunts.

Aren't pentacostal churches the fastest growing religious movement in the country at the moment anyway?  Plenty of full Christian churches there.


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

It's  not the EDL calling the shots - unless you're saying everyone who thinks laying a wreath is the right and respectful thing to do is secretly EDL. It's about being sensitive to the way these things are viewed and not handing the EDL and open net. Nothing more than that.

The family have made a statement saying that they are very grateful for the shows of respect and solidarity they have received so far - I think insisting that they demand it first might be taking things a bit far.

And I think, regardless of the EDL, it's a nice gesture. We're opposed to violent indoctrinated bigots and murderers and want to express solidarity and offer support to their victims and would be victims. Doesn't matter to me whether the culprits are white or brown, or whether their faith is in Islam, British 'patriotism' or neoliberal capitalism. Just as we pay our respects to victims of racist murders, we pay our respects here.

Oh, and there's that little thing called politics. If you draw a line in the sand with you on one side and a large part (almost certainly a majority) of the working class on another - bigots this side (and of course everyone who thinks people should be allowed to lay a wreath is one of the bigots), fluffy 'principled' liberals the other - then which side do you think ordinary people who want to show their respects, people we should be appealing to, are more likely to listen to?


----------



## Balbi (May 30, 2013)

Northampton EDL's argument is did any other political group call for EVERYONE to come and honour Lee Rigby's memory? No. So don't complain.

Does anyone want soldiers deaths politicised? No. Twats.

Amusingly, the towns Wetherspoons - including the one where they intended to start drinking at, are all shutting until 4pm because they want none of it


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 30, 2013)




----------



## SpineyNorman (May 30, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


>


North East Fusiliers Association: better at antifascism than the UAF.


----------



## bignose1 (May 30, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Pretty sure Scarrot's Labour party - but I suspect there'll be an SWP 'footsoldier' running the facebook group. The deleted post was made last night and was a comment on a thread where a lot of EDL had been posting daftness (some of properly offensive stuff that I'd have no problem with them deleting) so it might have been a case of delete the whole thread to get rid of it.
> 
> I've made a similar comment again today, only to be told that would be us 'accepting the EDL's narrative' and 'pandering' and that henna tattoos would be a better strategy. Seriously.
> 
> ...


 
Norm  save your hennagy....your doing alright...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 30, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Northampton EDL's argument is did any other political group call for EVERYONE to come and honour Lee Rigby's memory? No. So don't complain.
> 
> Does anyone want soldiers deaths politicised? No. Twats.
> 
> Amusingly, the towns Wetherspoons - including the one where they intended to start drinking at, are all shutting until 4pm because they want none of it


 

hopefully they get into a running street battle with the Jesus Army for the sake of surreality


----------



## J Ed (May 30, 2013)

Doncaster Wetherspoons is closing too. Police seem to be asking them to close early.


----------



## bignose1 (May 30, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Norm save your hennagy....your doing alright...


 
 *****


----------



## bignose1 (May 30, 2013)

*****


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 30, 2013)




----------



## bignose1 (May 30, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> View attachment 33110


 
Anti fishists...


----------



## jakethesnake (May 30, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Give me fucking strength.


ah, the song of my people


----------



## J Ed (May 30, 2013)




----------



## Dogsauce (May 31, 2013)

Young Tommy's getting a bit full of himself on Twitter tonight. Hashtaghing himself as 'the people's voice' no less. Delusional self-regard.

Also got cancelled by Newsnight, which is obviously a big conspiracy and fuck all to do with the April Jones verdict pushing other stories from the headlines.

Griffin used to play the victim like this too, didn't he?


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 31, 2013)

Helicopter view of Whitehall protests. EDL not more than 600, which is shite for a bank holiday and given the circumstances of emotions at boiling point the length and breadth of the country.

Starts at minute: 2.20


----------



## AKA pseudonym (May 31, 2013)

*English Defence League Website Hacked And Defaced By Muslim Hackers - [News]*


----------



## comrade spurski (May 31, 2013)

Re the "shrine" to Lee Rigby...I live nearby and have stayed away ... not because it's EDL led but because it feels like attending a strangers funeral but I would not expect anyone else to feel like this. It feels a bit odd (for the want of a better word) to have that here but I think that's cos it serves as a reminder that a terrible act occurred in our community.
One of the best things about it was last saturday a group of Nigerians marched and layed a wreath and the people already at the shrine, mainly white, applauded them ... don't really see the EDL enjoying that too much.
A few of my mates have been as they work in the council building just down the road and they said they didn't see any racist messages there just stuff about how sorry people were.
Re soldiers ... I thought that being against the war included not wanting to see soldiers getting killed on the orders of politicians...most soldiers joined to have a career ... look at the ads for the army etc. they don't say " come join us to kill foreigners" they talk of a career and of helping out desperate people...most soldiers are recruited from working class areas as there ain't jobs to get...if some left groups can't understand that then they don't deserve to call themselves socialists.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Are the rank and file making it clear a lot want to go on Saturday? What's the leaders take? I haven't been looking.


 

i am trying to 'wind down operations' up here at the moment but it seems that the EDL leadership are flushed by the success of saturday and monday - which to be honest went better than i thought it would for them. however, because of the schisms in the EDL and/or difficulties in making official protests on short notice, they seem to be doing a load of local demos. either latching onto extant ones organised by others or sorting their own wee ones. they have been piggybacking other things in rigby's memory already. however, they may be either too disorganised or spread too thinly to make the media splash they did at the weekend - altho the Metro was seen by literally 100s of 1000s and did them no favours whatsoever. tommy knows he has little control now over the majority of EDL and is desperate to rake some money in from it whilst it lasts and assume some kind of contro.l. him wearing a combat jacket on monday symbolises his opportunism.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk...-to-close-doncaster-town-centre-pub-1-5723551


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> Has the family asked for this solidarity though?  Is it an organised event by any particular group or authority? Otherwise it feels a bit like the EDL calling the shots, and I feel a bit uneasy about this because it's acknowledging their power.  It'd be easier to defuse things if there was an official public wreath laying or something like that, so it wasn't the agenda set by the EDL and they weren't then seen as the default leaders and shapers of the response to this event.  They're cynical opportunists that don't deserve such elevation.
> 
> What I'd most like to see happen would be for the family to step up and call for a halt to the politicalisation of the event and an end to the 'hate marches', but they've probably got other things on their mind right now.
> 
> I can appreciate the sentiment behind showing respect, and know why such a death is significant and will draw out solidarity from people who aren't related.  The guy was brutally killed for what he was, not a random killing or a personal killing, but just because of his career, and that's not philosophically a huge difference from people being singled out and killed for being gay or of a particular race. I don't think memorial events and shows of solidarity are inappropriate.  People using memorial events (or creating their own) to promote their kind of hate that also leads to people getting murdered in the street is pretty fucking horrible though.  There's just a danger of making them look like the good guys if they're targetted aggressively at war memorials and so on - and danger that certain sections of the media would look on them sympathetically.


So now 'certain sections of the media' call the shots.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's an old one - the one teampoison released last year. But if you're interested http://pastebin.com/sQuqmX7M


 

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/extra-police-for-march-in-sheffield-1-5724132


----------



## weepiper (May 31, 2013)

The SDL are having a static demo at the Scottish parliament tomorrow 'to pay their respects to Lee Rigby' 




			
				Scottish Defence League facebook page said:
			
		

> Good morning people tomorrow we will descend on the scottish parliament to show our respects to lee rigby and to show our govermant that this is our fucking country and this will never happen again not on our watch we will hit the streets till the govermant protects our brave soldiers see you`s tomorrow


 
As well as the Woolwich murder we have our own local tensions at the moment - the son of an Imam at Edinburgh Central Mosque was shot dead in a residential street apparently in a drug gang battle after a car chase last week

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-e...oting-police-at-house-before-attack-1-2948845

I'm expecting they're going to get a better turnout than their normal one for this.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

wee pipes. and the SDL is much more tied in with NF, BNP etc than EDL.


----------



## weepiper (May 31, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> wee pipes. and the SDL is much more tied in with NF, BNP etc than EDL.


 

Yep horrible bastards.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

they are, that police grass diddyfiddler and his infidels are active with them and they have been more openly fascist. however, scots antifash have had the drop on em most times.


----------



## CNT36 (May 31, 2013)

Anybody know if there's any anti-facists active from Plymouth down other than the UAF?


----------



## The39thStep (May 31, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i am trying to '*wind down operations'* up here at the moment but it seems that the EDL leadership are flushed by the success of saturday and monday - which to be honest went better than i thought it would for them. however, because of the schisms in the EDL and/or difficulties in making official protests on short notice, they seem to be doing a load of local demos. either latching onto extant ones organised by others or sorting their own wee ones. they have been piggybacking other things in rigby's memory already. however, they may be either too disorganised or spread too thinly to make the media splash they did at the weekend - altho the Metro was seen by literally 100s of 1000s and did them no favours whatsoever. tommy knows he has little control now over the majority of EDL and is desperate to rake some money in from it whilst it lasts and assume some kind of contro.l. him wearing a combat jacket on monday symbolises his opportunism.


 
changing internet provider?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

ha ha no, got another book to write and doing the blog and writing for freedom as well was taking up too much time which i cannot spare.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> ha ha no, got another book to write and doing the blog and writing for freedom as well was taking up too much time which i cannot spare.


oi  pm me the order details for your last book


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2013)

weepiper said:


> The SDL are having a static demo at the Scottish parliament tomorrow 'to pay their respects to Lee Rigby'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


if i am killed by an islamist i rely on you to prevent the edl / sdl / any other fash group organising a rally to show their respects to me.


----------



## weepiper (May 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> if i am killed by an islamist i rely on you to prevent the edl / sdl / any other fash group organising a rally to show their respects to me.


Fuck off Pickman's, I don't know what your problem is with me all of a sudden but don't put words in my mouth.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2013)

weepiper said:


> Fuck off Pickman's, I don't know what your problem is with me all of a sudden but don't put words in my mouth.


i'm not putting words in your mouth i am saying that in the event of my murder by an islamist i rely on you to prevent the edl, the sdl or any other fascist organisation organising a demonstration to show their respects. none of this is putting words in your mouth or attempting to put words in your mouth and if you think it is i am very sorry for you.

an apology for your intemperate post would be well received.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> oi  pm me the order details for your last book


 

ha ha it isnt out yet but when it is you will definitely HEAR ABOUT IT!!!! as will everyone else on here!


----------



## weepiper (May 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not putting words in your mouth i am saying that in the event of my murder by an islamist i rely on you to prevent the edl, the sdl or any other fascist organisation organising a demonstration to show their respects. none of this is putting words in your mouth or attempting to put words in your mouth and if you think it is i am very sorry for you.
> 
> an apology for your intemperate post would be well received.


 

Get to fuck.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2013)

weepiper said:


> Get to fuck.


you're just embarrassed by the realisation you were wrong about me putting words in your mouth, so i won't take that too much to heart.


----------



## Favelado (May 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you're just embarrassed by the realisation you were wrong about me putting words in your mouth, so i won't take that too much to heart.


 
Seriously though, get to fuck.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Seriously though, get to fuck.


i don't think weepiper needs some little turd like you to fight his battles. on your way.


----------



## teqniq (May 31, 2013)

> EDL planning march to commemorate Lee Rigby's death at Maindy Barracks, Cardiff 1pm, tomorrow (Saturday)


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2013)

Now that the family has come out against the marches it really makes you wonder how they can justify this is all to themselves. I suppose they just don't give a shit.


----------



## weepiper (May 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think weepiper needs some little turd like you to fight his battles. on your way.


 

And piss off with the 'his' shite.


----------



## Favelado (May 31, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Now that the family has come out against the marches it really makes you wonder how they can justify this is all to themselves. I suppose they just don't give a shit.


 
At least it'll be there for everyone to see. That should be powerful in itself. How is Lennon going to deal with that in interviews? There's no way he can look credible.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2013)

weepiper said:


> And piss off with the 'his' shite.


Her then. I'm still confused why you found what appears to me to be an innocuous post apparently worth making yourself so angry about.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Now that the family has come out against the marches it really makes you wonder how they can justify this is all to themselves. I suppose they just don't give a shit.


Lee rigby of course not the sole property of his family, so it isn't too hard i'd expect for them to justify it: 'they' killed one of 'our' soldiers on the streets of london and 'we' are going to do something about it, and - no doubt - it's understandable his family feels like this being how they're overcome with grief but no doubt they'll come round.


----------



## Ranbay (May 31, 2013)

ohhhh,  any links etc? might have to pop along


----------



## teqniq (May 31, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> ohhhh, any links etc? might have to pop along


 
hxxp://englishdefenceleague.org/edl-news-2/1930-silent-walks-for-lee

E2A link broken

E2A, again Twitter:



> EDLTrobinson: @joeccfc_ @MiichalSiidoryk: @EDLTrobinson RT lee rigby walk Cardiff 1pm saturday maindee barracks cardiff cheers!


----------



## Ranbay (May 31, 2013)

That link is not borken 

Cheers tho.


----------



## teqniq (May 31, 2013)

oops, it is now


----------



## Ranbay (May 31, 2013)

ddraig you around tomorrow mate? have posted about the march in some groups to see if anyone knows out.


----------



## ddraig (May 31, 2013)

i'll be there


----------



## manny-p (May 31, 2013)

weepiper said:


> The SDL are having a static demo at the Scottish parliament tomorrow 'to pay their respects to Lee Rigby'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
It was apparently somali brummies according to media, who drove up to made sure he didny talk to the cops after getting arrested on drug offences a wee while bk.


----------



## toggle (May 31, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Anybody know if there's any anti-facists active from Plymouth down other than the UAF?


 
not as far as i'm aware. any particular problem?


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 31, 2013)

There's a demo in Leeds this weekend too. Also lots of rumours and txts going around in the Muslim community of something in Huddersfield and Halifax on the same day. Not sure if anything's been done as a counter.


----------



## butchersapron (May 31, 2013)

The whole point was to get people doing rumours. To project nationwide relevance. Job done.


----------



## machine cat (May 31, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> There's a demo in Leeds this weekend too. Also lots of rumours and txts going around in the Muslim community of something in Huddersfield and Halifax on the same day. Not sure if anything's been done as a counter.


 
Leeds, Bradford and Halifax and Huddersfield.

Just had three blokes at the door who are going round the area trying to get people to counter them at the Huddersfield one in the morning (11am Market Square).


----------



## Delroy Booth (May 31, 2013)

machine cat said:


> Leeds, Bradford and Halifax and Huddersfield.
> 
> Just had three blokes at the door who are going round the area trying to get people to counter them at the Huddersfield one in the morning (11am Market Square).


 
Going door to door seems a bit much at this point. These are just rumours that've been going round for days now in a few different towns.


----------



## machine cat (May 31, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Going door to door seems a bit much at this point. These are just rumours that've been going round for days now in a few different towns.


 
Rather people turn up and no one there than no one turn up and the EDL uncountered.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

they may be spreading themselves too thinly if they are doing '10-12' demos round the country. especially if people head to london for woolwich kick off possibility.


----------



## machine cat (May 31, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> they may be spreading themselves too thinly if they are doing '10-12' demos round the country. especially if people head to london for woolwich kick off possibility.


 
I suspect the ones (at least in west yorks) are having early demos before heading to the bigger ones.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

yeah, they are bascially going from wetherspoons to wetherspoons. the family has rejected them, the EDL are desperate for it to not go off, no flags, drinking, shouting or post demo brawling.  and i cant see them not fucking it up somewhere. good luck to everyone out and about tomorrow!


----------



## machine cat (May 31, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i cant see them not fucking it up somewhere.


 
Shortly after the first wetherspoons I expect.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 31, 2013)

yeah, wetherspoons are going to have to do something soon as they're getting a lot of negative gossip about em 'supporting' EDL.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 1, 2013)

EDL tools need to read this.



> The regiment of Drummer Lee Rigby has urged its members not to participate in ‘self-serving’ demonstrations following the soldier’s brutal murder in Woolwich last week.
> 
> A number of demonstrations have been held since Drummer Rigby’s death last Wednesday, with members of the English Defence League marching through central London on Monday.
> EDL members protested outside Downing Street, with protesters heard chanting ‘Muslim killers off our streets’ and ‘There’s only one Lee Rigby’.
> ...


 
It's from metro, as mention by malatesta.


----------



## machine cat (Jun 1, 2013)

Spoons is empty. Completely empty. No Saturday morning drinkers. Nothing. 

Counter demo is here but fuck all EDL.


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2013)

I suspect the very dignified family statement has had some impact.


----------



## cesare (Jun 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> I suspect the very dignified family statement has had some impact.


Or they've decided to concentrate on London.


----------



## machine cat (Jun 1, 2013)

The pub had refused to open until 12pm. About 30 edl, 15 on the counter. Pretty quiet tbf. All gone to Leeds now.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

Looks like this the week HnH definitively beat searchlight. And the izzardisation of anti-fascism takes a giant stop forwards.


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2013)

apparently there are hundreds of protesting anti's here, but despite dr draig and others I will make the point again, they will disappear as soon as it is over, not join the bedroom tax events, etc, so much for solidarity.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

Bit of both today in bristol (two things almost side by side) hopefully we can put across that things like the bedroom tax organistion is proper anti-fascism.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> apparently there are hundreds of protesting anti's here, but despite dr draig and others I will make the point again, they will disappear as soon as it is over, not join the bedroom tax events, etc, so much for solidarity.



So? Does you repetitively complaining make any difference at all to that?


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2013)

Tommy as Kitchener

Hubris?


----------



## cesare (Jun 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> apparently there are hundreds of protesting anti's here, but despite dr draig and others I will make the point again, they will disappear as soon as it is over, not join the bedroom tax events, etc, so much for solidarity.


This is a bit irritating, as it makes it sound like no-ones spent months and months on workfare, ATOS, bedroom tax etc etc.


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm talking about a certain milieu, not activists


----------



## cesare (Jun 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> I'm talking about a certain milieu, not activists


Which milieu?


----------



## coley (Jun 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> Tommy as Kitchener
> 
> Hubris?


Wonder if he realises what a stupid prick he looks? And that the poster he has hijacked was responsible for sending thousands of young men to a senseless death.


----------



## grogwilton (Jun 1, 2013)

Looks like they also need proof readers.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

grogwilton said:


> Looks like they also need proof readers.


 
That's what it says.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jun 1, 2013)

coley said:


> Wonder if he realises what a stupid prick he looks? And that the poster he has hijacked was responsible for sending thousands of young men to a senseless death.


 
First as tragedy...


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

Not a one turned up to lay wreath here.  There may be some locked in nearby, but , I don't think so.


----------



## coley (Jun 1, 2013)

sunnysidedown said:


> First as tragedy...


The EDL will always be a farce led by an arse.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 1, 2013)




----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 1, 2013)

just heard from brighton antifascists that southern casuals said they were turning up at 1 but they bottled it and turned up 2 1/2hrs early at 10.30, dropped the 'reef' and fled. i should think that counts as a surrender!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> apparently there are hundreds of protesting anti's here, but despite dr draig and others I will make the point again, they will disappear as soon as it is over, not join the bedroom tax events, etc, so much for solidarity.


 
It's a joint antifascist/bedroom tax rally from what I can gather - couldn't make it myself though cos I'm visiting my mum.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm hearing there's about 50 EDL entering Barkers Pool in Sheffield right about now.

Worth remembering that if the far right is allowed to grow in strength campaigns around things like the bedroom tax become much more difficult, and at the same time those kinds of campaigns can be used to undercut the far right.

I'm not sure it's really helpful to try and separate the two or imply that a focus on one is to the detriment of the other.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

5-6 in Cardiff and 1-2 family's, seems they hijacked some woman's event as she came over to talk to us.

over 100 Antis maybe more.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

Fuck 'em up bob.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

Can't on my way to a bedroom tax demo now.


----------



## BigTom (Jun 1, 2013)

around 30 edl in Birmingham, maybe 50 anti's, 30 in the UAF pen and a couple of dozen who stayed outside. Was a bit confusing though because there was some biker group who laid flowers first and we thought they were edl (st george cross on a jacket, police liaison discussing with them etc) but the EDL rocked up a bit later. Fucking UAF couldn't keep it down for 2 minutes and started chanting through their silence. More police than anyone else. Lower numbers than I thought which is good.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

We have 300ish for the bedoom tax thing (there was some disgusting liberal free food thing as well mind- free adverstising for yuppie pies and the like) 500 yards from where the edl got none.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

BigTom said:


> around 30 edl in Birmingham, maybe 50 anti's, 30 in the UAF pen and a couple of dozen who stayed outside. Was a bit confusing though because there was some biker group who laid flowers first and we thought they were edl (st george cross on a jacket, police liaison discussing with them etc) but the EDL rocked up a bit later. Fucking UAF couldn't keep it down for 2 minutes and started chanting through their silence. More police than anyone else. Lower numbers than I thought which is good.


 
The UAF wanted to follow them as they marched off, they had said the wanted to March to the Local Mosque online, once i saw they where going the other way i thought fuck em. but the UAF lot marched on behind them.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

It was also suggest by some UAF guy who was in liaison with the police that we join them in the march


----------



## BigTom (Jun 1, 2013)

Birmingham.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 1, 2013)

brighton, coventry, southampton, cardiff, sheffield, manchester, brum, bristol, oxford not very good.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

There was a guy there taking snaps of all the Anits.... sure i will be on Redwatch again soon


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> brighton, coventry, southampton, cardiff, sheffield, manchester, brum, bristol, oxford not very good.


To be honest, why would they be any good ? Years building up a paper tiger - why? To what end? If it's because of the underlying danger the social acceptance of their views represents then lets have somethings saying that instead of this relentless edl shite. Let's have some fucking politics mal.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)




----------



## albionism (Jun 1, 2013)

where is that?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

Cardiff


----------



## ddraig (Jun 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> apparently there are hundreds of protesting anti's here, but despite dr draig and others I will make the point again, they will disappear as soon as it is over, not join the bedroom tax events, etc, so much for solidarity.


 
what the fucking fuck?
seriously, what do you think you know about me, what i'm involved in and and who i stand alongside?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

Internet police mate, facking everywhere lol


Missed you at the end, catch you soon


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 1, 2013)

ddraig said:


> what the fucking fuck?
> seriously, what do you think you know about me, what i'm involved in and and who i stand alongside?


 
treelover only asks questions and makes assertions he never answers questions


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> treelover only asks questions and makes assertions he never answers questions


 
Is this on the bbc though?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 1, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Internet police mate, facking everywhere lol
> 
> 
> Missed you at the end, catch you soon


 
yeah lost the mrs too and most people
followed it all the way to the war memorial and got threatened by another copper
catch ya soon


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

The left


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The left


 
The facebook, the edl


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

YouTube


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

That's the thread and it's political content covered. Time for a pint.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

I wish. looking after my lad now enjoy.


----------



## belboid (Jun 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> apparently there are hundreds of protesting anti's here, but despite dr draig and others I will make the point again, they will disappear as soon as it is over, not join the bedroom tax events, etc, so much for solidarity.


the bedroom tax demo was _before_ the edl one, so your comment made absolutely no sense.



SpineyNorman said:


> I'm hearing there's about 50 EDL entering Barkers Pool in Sheffield right about now.
> 
> Worth remembering that if the far right is allowed to grow in strength campaigns around things like the bedroom tax become much more difficult, and at the same time those kinds of campaigns can be used to undercut the far right.
> 
> I'm not sure it's really helpful to try and separate the two or imply that a focus on one is to the detriment of the other.


between 50 and 80 arseholes turned out.  Failed utterly to make it into Barkers Pool, despite two attempts by the police to force them thru.  For once we well and truly outnumbered bug stylee, up to 500 anti's there.  A couple made an attempt to sneak in after they had 'officially' been dispersed, but they didnt get close and went back to the pub.

They said they weren't going to have any chanting as a 'mark of respect,' but couldnt contain themselves when they saw a teenage lass taking the piss out of them, so we had about thirty fat blokes shouting 'slag, slag, slag' at her for a while - and then they chucked the flowers they were meant to be laying at the war memorial at her.

The other highlight was the local bishop trying to get us to allow 'only 15' of them to come and lay their flowers.  Insert your own bishop bashing joke here.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 1, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 
tatt fash boy in his rock against communism t-shirt ran to the police afterwards and had to get a lift out of there
anyone know who the bloke in the suit at the back was?
some kind of top cop or similar is my guess


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

Yeah fuzz, he came over to speak when that woman did.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 1, 2013)

thought that was Jeff Hurford
what did him in the suit say?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Yeah fuzz, he came over to speak when that woman did.


 
Is he NOT WELSH?


----------



## teqniq (Jun 1, 2013)

Nice one ddraig and B0B2oo9 for making the effort to be there. Sorry I was not there but I work most weekends, not long home now.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 1, 2013)

ddraig said:


> thought that was Jeff Hurford
> what did him in the suit say?


 
didnt say owt, they said who he was.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 1, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> didnt say owt, they said who he was.


 
ta


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 1, 2013)

About 30-50 in Leeds apparently, crossed the road from wetherspoons at the station to a police pen on City Square/Park Plaza. Some complaining that they weren't being served in Wetherspoons - Tommy's 'no booze' request going unheeded then. I'm not in town to witness this as gigging in Aberdeen last night, just what friends are reporting. Spotted some kind of orange march in Glasgow today though, presumably nothing at all to do with this?

Turnout sounds low generally everywhere, is that about right? The sad thing was seeing a lot of black/Asian people on twitter saying they were avoiding town because the EDL were out. Pisses me off that people feel they can't just go and do what they want due to the fear the wankers are creating.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 1, 2013)

belboid said:


> between 50 and 80 arseholes turned out. Failed utterly to make it into Barkers Pool, despite two attempts by the police to force them thru. For once we well and truly outnumbered bug stylee, up to 500 anti's there. A couple made an attempt to sneak in after they had 'officially' been dispersed, but they didnt get close and went back to the pub.
> 
> They said they weren't going to have any chanting as a 'mark of respect,' but couldnt contain themselves when they saw a teenage lass taking the piss out of them, so we had about thirty fat blokes shouting 'slag, slag, slag' at her for a while - and then they chucked the flowers they were meant to be laying at the war memorial at her.
> 
> The other highlight was the local bishop trying to get us to allow 'only 15' of them to come and lay their flowers. Insert your own bishop bashing joke here.


 
Cheers for that belboid


----------



## Dreich (Jun 1, 2013)

Must have been about 100-130 SDL out in Edinburgh, best turn out they've had in a while. NF and "end all immigration" banners, plus one guy in Tupac shirt, who didn't enjoy the "Tupac was a muslim" chants.
On a more serious note, a group of around ten of them broke away from the coppers and tried to pick off the rump of the counter protest, though this ran out of steam pretty quick when folk didn't run off and the allowed themselves to be moved on.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 1, 2013)

.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 1, 2013)

Dreich said:


> Must have been about 100-130 SDL out in Edinburgh, best turn out they've had in a while. NF and "end all immigration" banners, plus one guy in Tupac shirt, who didn't enjoy the "Tupac was a muslim" chants.
> On a more serious note, a group of around ten of them broke away from the coppers and tried to pick off the rump of the counter protest, though this ran out of steam pretty quick when folk didn't run off and the allowed themselves to be moved on.


 
That's the best/worst posted as we approach 9. Bit of time yet.


----------



## Dreich (Jun 1, 2013)

Nick Griffin tweeted earlier stating that Edinburgh was the turnout of the day. Usually there's flags for NWI/NEI but didn't see any today, suggesting they were mainly Scottish. Fair few younger ones, too.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 1, 2013)

> ​*jacksheppard* ‏@bristolnoborder43m​#EDL try to distance themselves from their toxic brand name by calling themselves #*Woolwichstrong* , #bristolstrong etc.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 1, 2013)

The Old Steine memorial, Brighton;


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 2, 2013)

Sheffield looks good


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

> The BNP & EDL claim to oppose Islamist extremist bigotry but in reality they generalise and abuse all Muslims. Many of their protests are menacing, even violent.
> Islam is not the main problem. Islamist fundamentalism and violent jihad are what we should focus on opposing. It is important to make a clear distinction between Muslims and Islamist extremists. Don’t confuse the two. Unite to isolate the main threats: the Islamist far right and its BNP and EDL equivalents.
> I support today’s Unite Against Fascism (UAF) counter-protest against the BNP. But UAF is not consistent. UAF commendably opposes the BNP and EDL but it is silent about Islamist fascists who promote anti-Semitism, homophobia, sexism and sectarian attacks on non-extremist Muslims.
> This silence and inaction by the UAF is a shocking betrayal of Muslim people – abandoning them to the Islamist far right.
> ...


 
Peter Tatchell yesterday




> We are not scared of Kuffar … my brothers remain in your ranks and do not be scared of these filthy Kuffar. They are pigs … Allah says they are worse than cattle.


 

Apparently, Michael Adebolajo spoke at a rally organised and attended by UAF to defend Harrow Central Mosque in 2009




he said this, apparently there was no comdemnation by UAF leaders, etc.



> Racist bigots including the BNP-linked English Defence League and “Stop the Islamisation of Europe” are planning on holding an anti-Muslim protest outside Harrow Central Mosque on the evening of Friday 11 September. Unite Against Fascism has called a solidarity vigil in response to defend the mosque from racists and fascists.


 
This was the publicity for the event


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Apparently, Michael Adebolajo spoke at a rally organised and attended by UAF to defend Harrow Central Mosque in 2009
> 
> he said this, apparently there was no comdemnation by UAF leaders, etc.


 
Where's that come from? Bad as UAF are I think it _extremely_ unlikely to be true.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Apparently, Michael Adebolajo spoke at a rally organised and attended by UAF to defend Harrow Central Mosque in 2009
> 
> he said this, apparently there was no comdemnation by UAF leaders, etc.


 
Pathetic. Do you think the UAF can do anything but be seen to defend harrow mosque? They're idiots who made these people bedfellows who never would have any control, but get them right on this- is this their demo and have they given him a platform? I've got no time for them or where their politics led but your desperation to pin this on them is pissing me right off.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/351147

ITV News broadcast it, wonder why it hasn't been circulated, etc,


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Pathetic. Do you think the UAF can do anything but be seen to defend harrow mosque? They're idiots who made these people bedfellows who never would have any control, but get them right on this- is this their demo and have they given him a platform?


 
pardon?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Where's that come from? Bad as UAF are I think it _extremely_ unlikely to be true.


 
This fact free piece.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> pardon?


 
I said that you glee in posting it is pathetic and that you've failed to show that UAF supported or promoted what this freak said.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/351147
> 
> ITV News broadcast it, wonder why it hasn't been circulated, etc,


 
OMG, even when the mainstream media does show something you want you still ask why haven't any non-mainstream media show it. There is just no way to win.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Really baffled here, the ITN footage is of the fanatic at a UAF organised event, the left there appeared to tolerate his rant, why is this controversial on here?, if true, why was it not commented on at the time and its legitimate to ask what was the response of the events organisers?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/351147
> 
> ITV News broadcast it, wonder why it hasn't been circulated, etc,


 
Because, and I mean no disrespect, it's an absolute fucking joke of an article.

This:



> Digital Journal previously exposed the UAF for its use of violence when the English Defence League peacefully demonstrated in Walthamstow.


 
Ought to be a clue.

Seriously, we all think UAF are shit. But that's no reason to uncritically accept anything bad that's said about them.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

had a few?

sorry, that's at BA

look at the video,

btw, spiney, I can tell you of few times, the SWP have tolerated anti-Semitic leaflets, etc at STWC events


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Really baffled here, the ITN footage is of the fanatic at a UAF organised event, the left there appeared to tolerate his rant, why is this controversial on here?, if true, why was it not commented on at the time and its legitimate to ask what was the response of the events organisers?


 
What do you think 'the left' or the organisers should, or even could, have done about it?


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

er, no platform?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> btw, spiney, I can tell you of few times, the SWP have tolerated anti-Semitic leaflets, etc at STWC events


 
That's not really relevant though is it? Seriously mate, you've called this one wrong.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> er, no platform?


 
How? They didn't give him a platform - he just got up and spoke - and look at the footage - how could they possibly have no-platformed him? Come on, think about it.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Really baffled here, the ITN footage is of the fanatic at a UAF organised event, the left there appeared to tolerate his rant, why is this controversial on here?, if true, why was it not commented on at the time and its legitimate to ask what was the response of the events organisers?


 
Jesus christ. First off, can you show what UAF organised event it was? Secondly, UAF, as clear from the vid had no control whatsoever over someone standing up on a car or something and ranting. They tried to piggy back on something. To suggest, as you do that they were supportive of this freak is wrong. Are you seriously going to accuse me of being soft on UAF? Or are you going to have a look at what sort of serious criticisms that can come out of this? Because yours are just...pathetic. Transparently motivated. If you want to get UAF and the SWP on being soft on fundies then this is not the way to do it - this shite only undermines any proper criticisms,


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Ok, the event happened, M/A, a known fundamentalist came out with appalling comments, that was tolerated, is that acceptable?, I don't think it is


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> er, no platform?


 
And if people there (who?) had no platformed him then you'd be moaning about that.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Ok, the event happened, M/A, a known fundamentalist came out with appalling comments, that was tolerated, is that acceptable?, I don't think it is


 
By who? By UAF? What do you mean by tolerated? What would you have done? What didn't happen that could have been done?


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

calling people 'kuffirs'

pull him off the car...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> calling people 'kuffirs'
> 
> pull him off the car...


 
What do you think would have happened if they'd done that? Who do you think would have come off worse?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> calling people 'kuffirs'
> 
> pull him off the car...


 
Did you really watch that video? You're clueless.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

UAF _are _soft on Islamists and have more than once tolerated all kinds of crap when they didn't need to. I just really don't think this is one of those times.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Its a discussion boards, lots of stuff is posted, and often from dubious sources, but the ITN video still stands.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 2, 2013)

To be fair there's not a single Harry Potter type in that video.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Its a discussion boards, lots of stuff is posted, and often from dubious sources, but the ITN video still stands.


 
But your posts about it don't. Don't go all defensive. Argue your points.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Its a discussion boards, lots of stuff is posted, and often from dubious sources, but the ITN video still stands.


 
Nobody's denying it happened. I'm just saying I don't think there's anything UAF could possibly have done about it.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

Think about it - UAF go to pull him off the car. They might get to the car. If they're lucky they might even succeed in pulling him off (off the car - you've all got dirty minds!). But then they end up leaving in an ambulance and he gets back on the car and gets on with his hate speech again. Look at the numbers.


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## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Ok, different opinions, that's how a board should work.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

No, it should work on diff opinions backed up by attempts at argument bolstered by evidence and reasoning - not just silly smears and juvenile retreats into shells.


----------



## comrade spurski (Jun 2, 2013)

The digital report article ends with a line that says...the uaf will protestagainst those paying respects to the murdered soldier...seems a weirdthing for a serious news report to write. It also quotes the bloke who murdered the soldier as say we are not here for violence if you are the  leave...dont seem like the bestvideoto show his extremism really.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

It's pretty obvious that there was nothing that the UAF could have done in that situation, it doesn't even look like there are any or at least more than a few UAF around.

If there were and the numbers were better, do you think that anything would have happened though? Since UAF have decided to literally side with Al-Muhajiroun against secular Muslims in the past I doubt it...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It's pretty obvious that there was nothing that the UAF could have done in that situation, it doesn't even look like there are any or at least more than a few UAF around.
> 
> If there were and the numbers were better, do you think that anything would have happened though? Since UAF have decided to literally side with Al-Muhajiroun against secular Muslims in the past I doubt it...


 
Would all depend on who was there and who was in charge on the UAF side I think - it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they'd have turned a blind eye (I don't think they'd try and justify it or anything, would just deny all knowledge) but I don't think they could have tolerated someone saying that kind of thing on their platform, even if they wanted to - it's just too naked.

Was that the one law for all thing? That was bizarre, calling Miryam Namazee (or however you spell it) a fascist was one of the weirder and more offensive things UAF have done! Though I suspect there was something like an honest fuck up somewhere along the way (wasn't there an EDL demo in the same place?)

They constantly walk a fine line between looking vaguely progressive and making concessions to 'the Muslim community' (which generally means not making gay rights a shibboleth etc). And they sometimes get it badly wrong.

Someone once said to me that Muslims don't need the UAF, the UAF needs Muslims - it's a crude way of putting it but I think there's something to it.


----------



## Nefarious Moose (Jun 2, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> About 30-50 in Leeds apparently, crossed the road from wetherspoons at the station to a police pen on City Square/Park Plaza. Some complaining that they weren't being served in Wetherspoons - Tommy's 'no booze' request going unheeded then. I'm not in town to witness this as gigging in Aberdeen last night, just what friends are reporting. Spotted some kind of orange march in Glasgow today though, presumably nothing at all to do with this?
> 
> Turnout sounds low generally everywhere, is that about right? The sad thing was seeing a lot of black/Asian people on twitter saying they were avoiding town because the EDL were out. Pisses me off that people feel they can't just go and do what they want due to the fear the wankers are creating.


 
Around 150 tops at City Square by most estimates I've seen. Lefties against around 200. If we'd assembled at the cenotaph we might just have been able to hold it depending on police actually letting us do that but it would probably have been ugly as fuck. No chance of the unequivocal win anti-fash had in Sheff if things had got up close and personal, though maybe if we'd got to it first and police didn't move us off EDL would never have been allowed near it. Maybes, couldas, wouldas, shouldas. We didn't do that anyways, we were expecting to be outnumbered 2 to 1 going by EDL Leeds Division and counter-demo FB event pages, decision was taken to assemble a couple of hours before they were due to around UAF stall on Briggate, see how the numbers panned out. Far enough away for safe assembly at business as usual location, within striking distance of the cenotaph if we had enough to hold both areas. We didn't.

Our presence in town certainly played a part in the police only allowing a very few of them and a very few of us up to the cenotaph, police very nearly kept both sides away altogether which would have been a win for us pissing right on their chips. As was about 30 of them, maybe few more from our side allowed up in the end so we had to settle for a tactical draw there. Rest of the EDL kettled down at City Square, most of us stayed around the UAF stall to defend it ( I'm led to believe had been threatened, handful of EDL indeed being turned back by police marching down to it after their demo at one point ) and engage with the public, aiming for something of a strategic win.

Good news is on this and their Moortown demo last month they haven't done better than about 100-150 out, even with bringing people in from outside the city. EDL Leeds / Yorkshire Division must be shocking weak.


----------



## andysays (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> calling people 'kuffirs'
> 
> pull him off the car...


 
Run him down, attack him with a meat cleaver?

As others have said, you've not really thought this through...


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2013)

LOL


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 2, 2013)

Dreich said:


> Nick Griffin tweeted earlier stating that Edinburgh was the turnout of the day. Usually there's flags for NWI/NEI but didn't see any today, suggesting they were mainly Scottish. Fair few younger ones, too.


 
NWI were in manchester and NEI wd have been at leeds.


----------



## Nefarious Moose (Jun 2, 2013)

Malatesta, the threat to the UAF stall had apparently come from Infidels of some description according to vague report of it I heard. Saw nothing concrete to back it up but it fits, yeah.


----------



## weepiper (Jun 2, 2013)

I'd have said more like 150-200 SDL in Edinburgh. We sat in the train station watching them muster, they really didn't like that. Pretty ridiculous 50-odd guys getting stressy about two people sitting on a bench in a public place looking at them. Tons of police with them so obviously nothing they could do but take photos and shoot dirty looks but it was kind of absurd. They were basically allowed to march from the station to the parliament under police escort, they took them via side streets but they did cross the Royal Mile; as we caught up with them just at that point there was a Somalian lassie with a headscarf walking up the street towards us just as they were crossing the road chanting 'Muslim scum, off our streets'. That was the thing that I found most upsetting about the whole day. Once they got to the parliament there was the usual argy bargying across barriers for a bit then they did their minute's silence and laid flowers; we'd gone by then but apparently the antis respected the silence. As Fed said though they were a good sized crowd of fit looking guys and frankly would have torn through the counter protest if anything had kicked off. But it didn't.


----------



## weepiper (Jun 2, 2013)

(Crappy) pic here gives an idea of the numbers


----------



## weepiper (Jun 2, 2013)

More pics here
http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-e...st-held-outside-scottish-parliament-1-2951895


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 2, 2013)

Nefarious Moose said:


> Malatesta, the threat to the UAF stall had apparently come from Infidels of some description according to vague report of it I heard. Saw nothing concrete to back it up but it fits, yeah.


 

ok thanks! it is so easy to make threats and even easier to do fuck all about it. as the infidels specialise in this. ie, doing fuck all.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 2, 2013)

weepipes! there was a callout from the BNP to support SDL. i will try and find it.


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## malatesta32 (Jun 2, 2013)

weepiper said:


> More pics here
> http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-e...st-held-outside-scottish-parliament-1-2951895


 

here we go. tacit admission that SDL/BNP drinking from the same trough. 
*from VVN uk forum: 

'If you live in Scotland please attend the Scottish Defence League protest against Muslim Hate Preachers outside the Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh on Saturday, June 1 at 13.00. The SDL maintain friendly relations with the British National Party and we have worked in unity on a number of occasions for the good of our Cause.'*


----------



## weepiper (Jun 2, 2013)

> As police led the group from the back of Waverley towards Holyrood, an angry exchange took place between a woman in a New Street flat and the SDL after water was thrown from an upper window onto the walkers beneath.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

Apparently Tommy Robinson is pretty pissed off about the response they got this Saturday, he's called a national demo in Sheffield for next Saturday and said he's going to attend. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...76072112558182&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

What sort of numbers do you all think they could get out if it was a national demo? The idea that there could be 2000 EDL in Sheffield and 500 or so antis like in Newcastle makes me sick.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 2, 2013)

That link's not working?

All I've seen is the Yorkshire edl calling for Sheffield demo next Sat;



> Due to fact people were blocked from paying respects in Sheffield on the 1st June we will be back this Saturday.


 
https://www.facebook.com/events/460613520695022?refsrc=http://t.co/yA2ij3oCdv&refid=9#_=_


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

https://twitter.com/EDLTrobinson/status/341189315650535424

I love the idea that they just wanted a respectful silent walk when they just turned up pissed and shouted 'slag' in unison at antifa women speakers. 

I wasn't planning on being in Sheffield next weekend but I'll make an effort to go back there just for this. Cheeky fuckers.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Would all depend on who was there and who was in charge on the UAF side I think - it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they'd have turned a blind eye (I don't think they'd try and justify it or anything, would just deny all knowledge) but I don't think they could have tolerated someone saying that kind of thing on their platform, even if they wanted to - it's just too naked.
> 
> Was that the one law for all thing? That was bizarre, calling Miryam Namazee (or however you spell it) a fascist was one of the weirder and more offensive things UAF have done! Though I suspect there was something like an honest fuck up somewhere along the way (wasn't there an EDL demo in the same place?)
> 
> ...


 

The main thing I was thinking of was the Maryam incident, she hadn't exactly covered herself in glory entirely beforehand, she shared a platform with Douglas Murray, though I have no idea whether the UAF were aware of that. In any case, shortly after sharing a platform with him she criticised his Eurabia schtick, I think she and her campaigning group just didn't know exactly how vile he is.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> The main thing I was thinking of was the Maryam incident, she hadn't exactly covered herself in glory entirely beforehand, she shared a platform with Douglas Murray, though I have no idea whether the UAF were aware of that. In any case, shortly after sharing a platform with him she criticised his Eurabia schtick, I think she and her campaigning group just didn't know exactly how vile he is.


 
She's certainly no fascist anyway - IIRC a communist who was fled to Britian to escape the clutches of the Iranian theocracy.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

One thing is interesting is that the EDL by calling these marches have actually taken the focus away from the crime itself by these radical islamists, though there hasn't been much discussion on the left blogs afaics on its ramifications.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2013)

The left


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

so fucking what, I and many others would like to see a progressive left that takes on the far right but isn't blind to the rise of I/F, there was a couple of guys on the 'peace demo' yesterday with black Islamic flags, no one batted an eyelid..


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2013)

The left


----------



## andysays (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> so fucking what, I and many others would like to see a progressive left that takes on the far right but isn't blind to the rise of I/F, there was a couple of guys on the 'peace demo' yesterday with black Islamic flags, no one batted an eyelid..


 
I've already demonstrated my ignorance of the niceties of flags on another thread today, but if these particular black flags have an Islamic, as opposed to Islamist, significance then what, if you don't mind my asking, is your fucking problem?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> so fucking what, I and many others would like to see a progressive left that takes on the far right but isn't blind to the rise of I/F, there was a couple of guys on the 'peace demo' yesterday with black Islamic flags, no one batted an eyelid..


 

Really? Jesus.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

andysays said:


> I've already demonstrated my ignorance of the niceties of flags on another thread today, but if these particular black flags have an Islamic, as opposed to Islamist, significance then what, if you don't mind my asking, is your fucking problem?


 

https://twitter.com/dunnjp/status/341201043759173632

That's a Salafist Jihadist flag. The UAF are fucking morons for letting it be flown there, why not just hold up a big banner saying SOLIDARITY WITH AL-QAEDA AGAINST OTHER FORMS OF FASCISM?


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

The thing is,andysays, is that I don't know what the banner said or represented, what I am saying is from my vantage point, no one asked the guys either

again, its this readiness to absolve I find baffling, when with the far right, its fists in, not saying they should have been attacked, but the lefts radar goes off straight away if they thing the far right are anywhere near, look how many WC/Tracksuited leftists are 'outed' as EDL, etc on demo'. If it was a jihadi flag, it should have been challenged, and saying it was one falg won't wash, one BNP guy in London was battered by 10 people, etc.

btw, I won't be posting anymore of this, I thought the left was moving away from this defensiveness towards a more balanced approach, same with people in my local L/U, if that's not the case, its not for me.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> https://twitter.com/dunnjp/status/341201043759173632
> 
> That's a Salafist Jihadist flag. The UAF are fucking morons for letting it be flown there, why not just hold up a big banner saying SOLIDARITY WITH AL-QAEDA AGAINST OTHER FORMS OF FASCISM?


 
that's an EDL site, best find another more authoritative one,


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

It's a picture on twitter, you saw it too so I'm gonna assume it wasn't photoshopped. ffs


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Sorry, J Ed, do you know it is a jihadi flag?, the guy carrying it was very aggressive


----------



## andysays (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> The thing is,andysays, is that I don't know what the banner said or represented, what I am saying is from my vantage point, no one asked the guys either
> 
> again, its this readiness to absolve I find baffling, when with the far right, its fists in, not saying they should have been attacked, but the lefts radar goes off straight away if they thing the far right are anywhere near, look how many WC/Tracksuited leftists are 'outed' as EDL, etc on demo's,
> 
> btw, I won't be posting anymore of this, I thought the left was moving away from this defensiveness towards a more balanced approach, same with people in my local LU, if that's not the case, it not for me,


 
So, after following J Ed's helpful link to wiki, it appears that the flag in question is an Islamist one rather than simply an Islamic one, the distinction which I mentioned in my previous post, and which you appear not to recognise as a distinction.

From this I deduce that your problem is either carelessness, ignorance or a deliberate attempt to label all Muslims as Islamists.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Sorry, J Ed, do you know it is a jihadi flag?, the guy carrying it was very aggressive


 

Yeah, it's a mujahideen jihadist flag. The people with it were probably hizb ut tahrir. A lot of the people there would have been aware of what it is too, depressing.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> so fucking what, I and many others would like to see a progressive left that takes on the far right but isn't blind to the rise of I/F, there was a couple of guys on the 'peace demo' yesterday with black Islamic flags, no one batted an eyelid..


what did the flag say?  clearly you know or you wouldn't be complaining about it, would you?

and as no one batted an eyelid, presumably you didn't bat an eyelid either, or are you mysteriously excluding yourself from any responsibility for anything and everything?

You nasty little hypocritical cunt.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Reply to J Ed, andy?


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Yeah, it's a mujahideen jihadist flag. The people with it were probably hizb ut tahrir. A lot of the people there would have been aware of what it is too, depressing.


they were asked not to fly it, treelover is lying.  again.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm saying that no one questioned it, I am not in any position to do so, you and your cohorts are,


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

ah, so it was a Jihadi flag,


----------



## andysays (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Reply to J Ed, andy?


 
What, specifically, are you suggesting/requesting I reply to?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

belboid said:


> they were asked not to fly it, treelover is lying. again.


 

That restores some of my faith in humanity, thanks.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> ah, so it was a Jihadi flag,


cunt


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

The flag was flying for the duration of the protest, as I say, no more from me, you carry on doing what you have been doing for years.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> I'm saying that no one questioned it, I am not in any position to do so, you and your cohorts are,


that is exactly what you said, you liar.And you are in exactly the same position as me to do something about it.  you wont. because you're a cunt who does nothing but slag off the left


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

FFS, J Ed has just informed you it was, if it was similar to a Christian flag, they exist, the equivalent, then it would have been different


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> The flag was flying for the duration of the protest, as I say, no more from me, you carry on doing what you have been doing for years.


fuck off then, you lying cunt


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> FFS, J Ed has just informed you it was, if it was similar to a Christian flag, they exist, the equivalent, then it would have been different


learn how to use the reply function. its not rocket science


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2013)

maybe it was hard to see form the other side of the demo?


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Mr Bluster, you and your fellow trots have been doing the same old same old for decades and it has got you nowhere, now with LU you are attempting to re-invent your 'revolutionary' party when the spirit is of something new and exciting.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> maybe it was hard to see form the other side of the demo?


 

pathetic, to be expected though


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2013)




----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Mr Bluster, you and your fellow trots have been doing the same old same old for decades and it has got you nowhere, now with LU you are attempting to re-invent your 'revolutionary' party when the spirit is of something new and exciting.


What is that a reply to?  Learn how to use the boards if you are going to participate.

Oh, you could also try actually answering questions putting to you instead of running away and refusing to do so.

And you could stop lying so often.

Cunt.


----------



## andysays (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> pathetic, to be expected though


 
So you _can_ use the reply function when it suits you.

Are you intending to answer my question:



andysays said:


> What, specifically, are you suggesting/requesting I reply to?


 
or can I go and do something more interesting than attempting to work out who your various scattergun comments are aimed at?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

belboid is treelover not right when he says that it was there for the duration of the demo? I'm talking to one of my friends who was there and she says it was 

People shouldn't have to choose between opposing the EDL but standing with people who hold Salafist flags and not doing anything.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

The fash are using the flag as further evidence that the UAF don't want them to lay flowers 'cos they are pro-terrorist commies all over twitter too.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> so fucking what, I and many others would like to see a progressive left that takes on the far right but isn't blind to the rise of I/F, there was a couple of guys on the 'peace demo' yesterday with black Islamic flags, no one batted an eyelid..


 
You were asked at least a dozen times, a long _long _time back in this thread, by myself and others, to give us some sort of clue as to exactly what this "The Left" you keep referring to actually fucking _means_.

You ignored it every single time IIRC.

Hence Bob's justified ridicule of your continued use of the term.

Now you've had more time to ponder the question, do you feel any more able to answer it?


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

> The fash are using the flag as further evidence that the UAF don't want them to lay flowers 'cos they are pro-terrorist commies all over twitter too.


 

Exactly, it will come back to haunt anti's, why not take the action required at the time, when the RCP had their 'victory to iraq' banner at the Gulf War demo' it soon came down..


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

Got to admit I wouldn't know the difference between a salafist or Islamist flag and a perfectly normal and acceptable Islamic one (that might say peace or summat on it).

If people know what it is they should say something - to the organisers if they're not confident to do it themselves. And that goes for anyone who saw it, there's no excuse for _anyone_ who was there leaving it for others to sort out - irrespective of whether they were there as part of an organised group - especially since I suspect the vast majority of people at the demo would have the exact same problem distinguishing between different flags with arabic lettering as I do. If you know the difference it falls on you to say something.

If you know the difference between them, and you see a salafist one, fucking say something. If you don't you're as much a part of the problem as anyone else at the demo.

Islamists are of the far right (they're not generally fascists though, that word has a very specific meaning and its definition shouldn't be stretched to include them _or _the EDL) and as such should be opposed just as robustly as the EDL/BNP/NF

But if I'd have been there I don't think I'd have done anything about it because I don't know the flags - for all I knew it might have been the equivalent of the kind of Christian peace signs my old dear used to take to CND marches.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> You were asked at least a dozen times, a long _long _time back in this thread, by myself and others, to give us some sort of clue as to exactly what this "The Left" you keep referring to actually fucking _means_.
> 
> You ignored it every single time IIRC.
> 
> ...


 
actually I have, many times, the broad coalition of the far left, liberal left, radicals, green party, individuals, etc that you see at all the major 'exciting events' anti-war, anti-edl.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Got to admit I wouldn't know the difference between a salafist or Islamist flag and a perfectly normal and acceptable Islamic one (that might say peace or summat on it).
> 
> If people know what it is they should say something - to the organisers if they're not confident to do it themselves. And that goes for anyone who saw it, there's no excuse for _anyone_ who was there leaving it for others to sort out - especially since I suspect the vast majority of people at the demo would have the exact same problem distinguishing between different flags with arabic lettering as I do. If you know the difference it falls on you to say something.
> 
> ...


 
that's what I said, but it was on the organisers and indeed people there to look into it, people have the net on their phone

btw, you put it more eloquently and consively as I could do, this board is not conjusive to people who have limited facilities for pursuing an argument, but I know when I'm right, its not the first time something like this has happened, chants of "Palestine, from, the rivers to the sea" (meaning the obliteration of Israel were often heard on Anti-war demo's and not readily challenged.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> actually I have, many times, the broad coalition of the far left, liberal left, radicals, green party, individuals, etc that you see at all the major 'exciting events' anti-war, anti-edl.


 
If you're truly referring to such a diverse set of peoples and ideologies, then that makes your many statements on what "The Left" should or shouldn't be doing even *more* fucking ridiculous.  

Cards on the table, I think you're a fash sympathiser at best tbh.  You pour an awful lot of energy into criticising those that attempt oppose them.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> that's what I said, but it was on the organisers and indeed people there to look into it, people have the net on their phone
> .


 
As do you, seen as you where posting here most of yesterday from the demo. while doing nothing about the angry guy with the flag.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> that's what I said, but it was on the organisers and indeed people there to look into it, people have the net on their phone


 
There must have been people there who knew and they should have said something. To be honest the possibility that an arabic flag might be Islamist isn't something that would have crossed my mind and I'm not sure how I'd go about searching for a flag on the internet anyway - if you know the name but not what it looks like that's easy to google, but if you know what it looks like but not what it's called I'm not sure it's so simple.

Were any of the people on here who were there aware of what sort of flag it was?


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> If you're truly referring to such a diverse set of peoples and ideologies, then that makes your many statements on what "The Left" should or shouldn't be doing even *more* fucking ridiculous.
> 
> Cards on the table, I think you're a fash sympathiser at best tbh. You pour an awful lot of energy into criticising those that attempt oppose them.


 

right, that's it, you knobhead, post reported...


----------



## andysays (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> *Got to admit I wouldn't know the difference between a salafist or Islamist flag and a perfectly normal and acceptable Islamic one* (that might say peace or summat on it).
> 
> If people know what it is they should say something - to the organisers if they're not confident to do it themselves. And that goes for anyone who saw it, there's no excuse for _anyone_ who was there leaving it for others to sort out - especially since I suspect the vast majority of people at the demo would have the exact same problem distinguishing between different flags with arabic lettering as I do. If you know the difference it falls on you to say something.
> 
> ...


 
Neither would I and neither, it appears would treelover. indeed he appears to have objected to it merely on the grounds that it was an Islamic flag, before he was aware (before J Ed explained) that it was in fact an Islamist one.

This leads me to the unfortunate conclusion that he considers any and all Islamic flags unacceptable in the context of a march for peace, rather as if someone was equating your mum's Xian peace signs as equivalent to the KKK or the extremist Dutch sect so popular in South Africa in the Apartheid days.

He's still got the option of defending himself from that conclusion, as long as he can work out the baffling question of how the reply function works...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> Cards on the table, I think you're a fash sympathiser at best tbh. You pour an awful lot of energy into criticising those that attempt oppose them.


 
Then you're a fucking idiot and I suggest you retract that vile slur. I often disagree with him on this stuff but he most certainly isn't anything of the sort.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Actually, I thought Corax was one of the more sophisticated and nuanced ones on here, I was clearly wrong and he or she has massively overstepped the mark, in fact I am trying to think of a similar accusation against a long time poster and I can't, maybe Jazz


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> right, that's it, you knobhead, post reported...


Lol, feel free.



SpineyNorman said:


> Then you're a fucking idiot and I suggest you retract that vile slur. I often disagree with him on this stuff but he most certainly isn't anything of the sort.


 
All I know of him is his constant attempts to find fault with his "The Left".  Whilst some of his criticisms are true, his dogged persistence, whilst rarely uttering a word against the EDL or their kin, paints a certain picture.

I'm not part of any clique on here and have no agenda with treelover, but that's how it reads.  Like dog-whistle stuff in the DM comments.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> If you're truly referring to such a diverse set of peoples and ideologies, then that makes your many statements on what "The Left" should or shouldn't be doing even *more* fucking ridiculous.
> 
> Cards on the table, I think you're a fash sympathiser at best tbh.  You pour an awful lot of energy into criticising those that attempt oppose them.


Ridiculous offensive non political rubbish. You should apologise for that.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Actually, I thought Corax was one of the more sophisticated and nuanced ones on here, I was clearly wrong and he or she has massively overstepped the mark, in fact I am trying to think of a similar accusation against a long time poster and I can't, maybe Jazz


 
I'd never claim to be particularly sophisticated (!), but equally I have no beef with you. Your posts, over a long period of time, have given me that impression of your views. Why?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> Lol, feel free.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
You're talking out of your arse. The stuff about the left does get a bit tired sometimes but I can guarantee you're well of target.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> You were asked at least a dozen times, a long _long _time back in this thread, by myself and others, to give us some sort of clue as to exactly what this "The Left" you keep referring to actually fucking _means_.
> 
> You ignored it every single time IIRC.
> 
> ...


 
I think its important we have an effective and fighting left, I don't know about you, but as someone on the harsh end of the condems petty brutalities it would be good to have some wins for a change and to be a bit less frightened

now do one...


----------



## love detective (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> its not the first time something like this has happened, chants of "Palestine, from, the rivers to the sea" (meaning the obliteration of Israel were often heard on Anti-war demo's and not readily challenged.


 

remember the 'we are all hezbollah' one from a few years back - quite apt to recall it now given current events


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> You're talking out of your arse. The stuff about the left does get a bit tired sometimes but I can guarantee you're well of target.


 
Glad to hear it.  All I've got to go on are his/her constant and often baseless attacks on any group opposing the EDL and kin.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2013)

I cant comment on this particular flag but having been on palestine demos in the past and having seen people carrying flags with swords on them etc and dressing in black, as well as listening to some swappie (or something) say "we support hamas" in a speech, as well as others spouting racist shite and not being kicked off the demo i can sadly believe it.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

love detective said:


> remember the 'we are all hezbollah' one from a few years back - quite apt to recall it now given current events


 

I don't think that the from the river to the sea chant is nearly as bad since (most? some of?) the people saying it envisage a situation where a one state solution would also include the Jewish population of historic Palestine in a secular/plural state.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> Glad to hear it. All I've got to go on are his/her constant and often baseless attacks on any group opposing the EDL and kin.


 
I think an apology is in order, don't you?


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Btw, this debate about the flags are going on on lots of fora U.k wide, and yes, those who are critical are called 'racists, edl, etc some clearly are, but many are just baffled as to why such flags were flown without major criticism.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Btw, this debate about the flags are going on on lots of fora U.k wide, and yes, those who are critical are called 'racists, edl, etc some clearly are, but many are just baffled as to why such flags were flown without major criticism.


 

That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the pic after you mentioning it here. It just looks _awful _to absolutely everyone including the vast majority of Muslims.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think an apology is in order, don't you?


 
I don't need one, if it wasn't for the appalling attacks on vulnerable people, I would be finished with left politics, too confrontational and with a hierarchy of oppression.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> I don't think that the from the river to the sea chant is nearly as bad since (most? some of?) the people saying it envisage a situation where a one state solution would also include the Jewish population of historic Palestine in a secular/plural state.


 
_Some _(I hope most) of the people saying it do. But I think it would be naive, given the people we know to attend those demos, to think they all did.

I used to be a convinced advocate of the one state solution, mainly because I don't like the idea of two states founded on either religious or ethno-linguistic grounds (why have two states otherwise?), I think it would require ethnic cleansing to implement, would (I'm thinking of Michael Mann's arguments in _The Dark Side of Democracy_) institutionalise religious conflict, and is becoming increasingly difficult to envisage it even being a possibility given the expansion of Israeli settlements. But more recently I've come to see very similar problems in a single state.

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that someone like me, with no direct stake, should keep their fucking nose out and stick to doing what little I can in assisting labour struggles on both sides of the divide. I see both solutions as being frought with extreme danger to those directly affected and as such cannot in good conscience 'support' either. And in my less optimistic moods I tend to think that the no state solution might be the only one - full communism is the way to go


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think an apology is in order, don't you?


No, not really.  I'll happily (literally) concede that I'm wrong as so many are willing to vouch that it's untrue, but treelover's posts built up that impression in my mind and there's no point in pretending otherwise.

I do _retract_ it however.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

semantics, lol...


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2013)

also, treelover may be a bit annoying at times but i know i can be as well. he's definitely not fash ffs.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> No, not really. I'll happily (literally) concede that I'm wrong as so many are willing to vouch that it's untrue, but treelover's posts built up that impression in my mind and there's no point in pretending otherwise.
> 
> I do _retract_ it however.


 
You called an anti-fascist a fascist and you're not sorry that you did so? Regardless of the reasons why I got it so badly wrong, I'd certainly be sorry if I'd done that.

But if that's the case then fair enough. It really doesn't reflect well on you.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> semantics, lol...


I don't think so.  If I'd called you a "fash cunt" or similar then I'd be apologising, but that's not what I said - thankfully.



frogwoman said:


> also, treelover may be a bit annoying at times but i know i can be as well. he's definitely not fash ffs.


 
Good.  By your reaction and that of others, and also treelover's own personal outrage, I was obviously way off mark.  All I've seen is the unceasing criticism of anything done to oppose the EDL, but I'm happy to accept that's given a false impression.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> belboid is treelover not right when he says that it was there for the duration of the demo? I'm talking to one of my friends who was there and she says it was
> 
> People shouldn't have to choose betweeen opposing the EDL but standing with people who hold Salafist flags and not doing anything.


he was asked to leave the front of the demo, and he did. I'm sure he kept hold of his flag, but why wouldn't he?


SpineyNorman said:


> Got to admit I wouldn't know the difference between a salafist or Islamist flag and a perfectly normal and acceptable Islamic one (that might say peace or summat on it).


indeed, and it is the absolute fact that treelover had absolutely no idea about what the flag had on it that makes his comment (so bold and brave a mere 24 hours later, on the internet) so irritating.  he just didn't like the look of the bloke holding it.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Btw, this debate about the flags are going on on lots of fora U.k wide, and yes, those who are critical are called 'racists, edl, etc some clearly are, but many are just baffled as to why such flags were flown without major criticism.


links?  cos i suspect this is yet another thing you are making up.  something you have a habit of doing


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

> indeed, and it is the absolute fact that treelover had absolutely no idea about what the flag had on it that makes his comment (so bold and brave a mere 24 hours later, on the internet) so irritating. he just didn't like the look of the bloke holding it.


 


oh dear, now I appear to be accused of racism, is that correct belboid?


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> You called an anti-fascist a fascist and you're not sorry that you did so? Regardless of the reasons why I got it so badly wrong, I'd certainly be sorry if I'd done that.
> 
> But if that's the case then fair enough. It really doesn't reflect well on you.


 
An apology would be disingenuous IMO.  What I posted wasn't a fit of pique or a personal attack, it was the effect of treelover's posts on this thread.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> An apology would be disingenuous IMO. What I posted wasn't a fit of pique or a personal attack, it was the effect of treelover's posts on this thread.


 
Actually, its not just this thread, historically when someone has started a thread, not very frequently, on Islamic fundamentalism on here, they are also regularly accused of the above.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> An apology would be disingenuous IMO. What I posted wasn't a fit of pique or a personal attack, it was the effect of treelover's posts on this thread.


 
It wasn't _just _his comments on this thread though was it? You had some input too - and obviously so. Otherwise you wouldn't have been the only one making the accusation. You interpreted them (wrongly) and then made a (completely unfounded) accusation. Your attempts to paint it as all treelover's work, and yourself as a mere passive channel through which the mysterious force of treelover's posts articulated itself, look a bit desperate.

This is my last comment on the subject.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> oh dear, now I appear to be accused of racism, is that correct belboid?


 

Must be a bizarre very selective racism since you obviously had no problem with an array of other people!


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

> This is my last comment on the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> yes, mine is I don't really have an interest in the EDL, I think UKIP are ultimately much more of a threat to working class people, of any colour or creed...


 

IMO they aren't separate threats. There is a LOT of crossover in terms of both membership and views, and they have collaborated together on anti-immigration demos in Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire.

A lot of EDL vote UKIP too.

It's not impossible to imagine the EDL being used, the same way as Golden Dawn have been used in Greece, in a SHTF scenario in the UK. In fact I think their right-wing populism and ostensible anti-fascism means that the state would see them as being perfect for the task.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> Actually, its not just this thread, historically when someone has started a thread, not very frequently, on Islamic fundamentalism on here, they are also regularly accused of the above.


 
Wouldn't that depend on the poster?

If a newly registered poster started a thread on it, then tbh I'd be a bit suspicious of their motives.

If an established poster did so, then unless it had a particularly unique angle then it would just be puzzling - I think some things can be taken as read on here, and one of them is that no one's a big fan of islamic extremists.  A generic discussion thread on whether islamic fundamentalism was a bad thing would just have a few hundred replies reading "yeah".


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> This is my last comment on the subject.


 
Fab.  I collect last words.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

> A lot of EDL vote UKIP too.
> 
> It's not impossible to imagine the EDL being used, the same way as Golden Dawn have been used in Greece, in a SHTF scenario in the UK. In fact I think their right-wing populism and ostensible anti-fascism means that the state would see them as being perfect for the task.


 
yeah, you are right on this, must be terrifying to be an immigrant right now in Greece, trade unionist, leftist, etc.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

Has anyone been following the developments on this page https://www.facebook.com/pages/RIP-Lee-Rigby/144840292366142?hc_location=stream ?

It's obviously ran as a front by the EDL, they are using it to discredit some anti-UKIP and anti-EDL facebook groups and promote EDL-ran front events like Woolwich Strong. They are also flogging merchandise. 

Very weird.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm not sure about the edl not being fash tbh, I reckon they are tbh, I think they fit many of the characteristics in a classical definition of fascism despite there claim to not be racist etc. I'm less sure about the BNP.

that still doesnt mean its politically or socially useful to take the piss out of their spelling or call everyone who's worried about islamist extremism (like me, for example) a fascist


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> IMO they aren't separate threats. There is a LOT of crossover in terms of both membership and views, and they have collaborated together on anti-immigration demos in Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire.
> 
> *A lot of EDL vote UKIP too.*
> 
> It's not impossible to imagine the EDL being used, the same way as Golden Dawn have been used in Greece, in a SHTF scenario in the UK. In fact I think their right-wing populism and ostensible anti-fascism means that the state would see them as being perfect for the task.


 
Every one votes UKIP to keep the BNP out surely?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I'm not sure about the edl not being fash tbh, I reckon they are tbh. I'm less sure about the BNP.
> 
> that still doesnt mean its politically or socially useful to take the piss out of their spelling or call everyone who's worried about islamist extremism (like me, for example) a fascist


 
Nah I don't think they're fascists - they're more like Ulster loyalists IMO. Plenty of fascists among them but their politics aren't coherent enough to be given a label like fascist or anything else for that matter.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> oh dear, now I appear to be accused of racism, is that correct belboid?


no, i've accused you of being a dishonest cunt who leaps to all sorts of assumptions, and who is a coward who refuses to answer the multitude of criticisms of your wet liberalism. And who wont ever come back and admit, still less apologise for, the simple and straightforward lies you tell.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

belboid said:


> no, i've accused you of being a dishonest cunt who leaps to all sorts of assumptions, and who is a coward who refuses to answer the multitude of criticisms of your wet liberalism. And who wont ever come back and admit, still less apologise for, the simple and straightforward lies you tell.


 
I really wasn't going to reply to this but the flag was a jihadist flag, if it had been white with black lettering, its meaning would have been different

ha, wet liberal, how can someone who is prepared to challenge other forms of dangerous groupings be a wet liberal.


----------



## cesare (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> so fucking what, I and many others would like to see a progressive left that takes on the far right but isn't blind to the rise of I/F, there was a couple of guys on the 'peace demo' yesterday with black Islamic flags, no one batted an eyelid..


Did you see and identify this problem at the time;  or is this a conclusion that you've reached after having a chance to go through all the twitter feeds/photos etc ie after the event?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2013)

cesare said:


> Did you see and identify this problem at the time; or is this a conclusion that you've reached after having a chance to go through all the twitter feeds/photos etc ie after the event?


 

Several friends that I have spoken to who went saw the flag but didn't know what it meant, I'm sure that was the problem for most but not all people there.

A member of Al-Muhajiroun has shown interest in the EDL's march repeat performance next Saturday on their facebook event page and said he was intending on going. So it may have been a member of Al-Muhajiroun and not Hizb who was there, either way Al-Muhajiroun turning up next Saturday and being allowed to stay would be really bad.


----------



## Nice one (Jun 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I cant comment on this particular flag but having been on palestine demos in the past and having seen people carrying flags with swords on them etc and dressing in black, as well as listening to some swappie (or something) say "we support hamas" in a speech, as well as others spouting racist shite and not being kicked off the demo i can sadly believe it.


 
i remember the gaza demo in london a few years back, got told by lefties that there "might be a problem" with the 'no gods no masters' slogan on the anarchist block banner. In hindsight i wish we'd made that the main slogan


----------



## cesare (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Several friends that I have spoken to who went saw the flag but didn't know what it meant, I'm sure that was the problem for most but not all people there.
> 
> A member of Al-Muhajiroun has shown interest in the EDL's march repeat performance next Saturday on their facebook event page and said he was intending on going. So it may have been a member of Al-Muhajiroun and not Hizb who was there, either way Al-Muhajiroun turning up next Saturday and being allowed to stay would be really bad.


Aye. I wasn't criticising or suggesting anything about the people there. I just wanted to know if treelover spotted it as it was going on, because I'm pretty sure they didn't post about it during the day yesterday (although I might have missed it) - and if they didn't see it at the time but have drawn this conclusion/accusation with the benefit of retrospect and piecing together information, it just seems a bit off to point the finger before asking what happened first. So I was just asking for some clarification, iyswim.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2013)

Nice one said:


> i remember the gaza demo in london a few years back, got told by lefties that there "might be a problem" with the 'no gods no masters' slogan on the anarchist block banner. In hindsight i wish we'd made that the main slogan


 
it would certainly have been better than some of the other options on the menu that day.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Several friends that I have spoken to who went saw the flag but didn't know what it meant, I'm sure that was the problem for most but not all people there.
> 
> A member of Al-Muhajiroun has shown interest in the EDL's march repeat performance next Saturday on their facebook event page and said he was intending on going. So it may have been a member of Al-Muhajiroun and not Hizb who was there, either way Al-Muhajiroun turning up next Saturday and being allowed to stay would be really bad.


 
There was one guy there helped set up peace in the park, etc, he is an avid internationalist/Palestine supporter, basically an arabist, he would certainly have known what the flag was.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> I really wasn't going to reply to this but the flag was a jihadist flag, if it had been white with black lettering, its meaning would have been different
> 
> ha, wet liberal, how can someone who is prepared to challenge other forms of dangerous groupings be a wet liberal.


you did not know what it meant, you admitted that earlier, now you're trying to pretend otherwise.  lying again.

and you dont challenge anything, you just whine about it on the internet hours or days later. you are the very definition of a wet liberal.


----------



## Nice one (Jun 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> it would certainly have been better than some of the other options on the menu that day.


 
actually it said 'no gods no masters no states' i think the leftists (i'm assuming they were swp) were concerned we were _off message_ in terms of palestine. The 'hotheads' loved it though. But it does raise the issue of how these things are allowed to slide within radical circles. i still have issues with south london anti-fascists uncritically supporting the lewisham islasmic centre as though in not doing so would somehow give credibility to the bnp.


----------



## cesare (Jun 2, 2013)

Nice one said:


> actually it said 'no gods no masters no states' i think the leftists (i'm assuming they were swp) were concerned we were _off message_ in terms of palestine. The 'hotheads' loved it though. But it does raise the issue of how these things are allowed to slide within radical circles. i still have issues with south london anti-fascists uncritically supporting the lewisham islasmic centre as though in not doing so would somehow give credibility to the bnp.


There are two versions of events to this alleged "uncritical support" which have already been set out in the other thread.


----------



## Nice one (Jun 2, 2013)

cesare said:


> There are two versions of events to this alleged "uncritical support" which have already been set out in the other thread.


 if you could point me in the right direction


----------



## cesare (Jun 2, 2013)

Nice one said:


> if you could point me in the right direction


It's on the Woolwich to Lewisham thread - Thursday's postings


----------



## october_lost (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one said:


> i remember the gaza demo in london a few years back, got told by lefties that there "might be a problem" with the 'no gods no masters' slogan on the anarchist block banner. In hindsight i wish we'd made that the main slogan


The big problem with that demo was the anti-semitism and people flying dodgy flags.


----------



## Nice one (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:


> It's on the Woolwich to Lewisham thread - Thursday's postings


 
what is?

Here's the uncritical support i was refering to.



*South London AF* ‏@*SouthLondonAF*

SPREAD THE WORD - We are working with Lewisham Islamic Centre to stop the #*BNP* from getting to #*Lewisham*

https://twitter.com/SouthLondonAF/status/339756123001323521

which reinforced "We will be primarily supporting the Lewisham Islamic Centre rally".


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one said:


> what is?
> 
> Here's the uncritical support i was refering to.
> 
> ...



If you insist on basing your opinions on a twitter feed, that's entirely a matter for you. If you want more substance on which to base them, have a look at where I suggested - and even that's not the full story.


----------



## Nice one (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:


> If you insist on basing your opinions on a twitter feed, that's entirely a matter for you. If you want more substance on which to base them, have a look at where I suggested - and even that's not the full story.


 
read that thread through several times. If there is something specific you think i should read link away. Otherwise all i have to go on are the public declarations of a group fully supporting the lewisham islamic centre, indeed actively working with them.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one said:


> read that thread through several times. If there is something specific you think i should read link away. Otherwise all i have to go on are the public declarations of a group fully supporting the lewisham islamic centre, indeed actively working with them.


It's clear on that thread that there's a difference of opinion on what was decided. It's also clear that the Islamic Centre is a community centre, not just a mosque. It's also clear that lots of different people went to that meeting, it wasn't just a case of some politicos/activists meeting with religionists. What's not clear, so you'll have to read between the lines, is that attention moved from the Islamic Centre to where the Met approved demo/march had been redirected. I'm not particularly bothered what conclusions you draw from it all, except you seem to be doing exactly what treelover did earlier, and I think it's a bit off.


----------



## Nigel (Jun 3, 2013)

http://www.change.org/petitions/ton...-dem-councillor-to-resign/suggested_petitions


----------



## Nice one (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:


> It's clear on that thread that there's a difference of opinion on what was decided. It's also clear that the Islamic Centre is a community centre, not just a mosque. It's also clear that lots of different people went to that meeting, it wasn't just a case of some politicos/activists meeting with religionists. What's not clear, so you'll have to read between the lines, is that attention moved from the Islamic Centre to where the Met approved demo/march had been redirected. I'm not particularly bothered what conclusions you draw from it all, except you seem to be doing exactly what treelover did earlier, and I think it's a bit off.


 
okay my issue is with south london anti-fascists (mostly anarchists) having uncritical support for the lewisham islamic centre as evidenced in the two pieces of information they put out publicly. That's it. That's the issue and nothing else.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one said:


> okay my issue is with south london anti-fascists (mostly anarchists) having uncritical support for the lewisham islamic centre as evidenced in the two pieces of information they put out publicly. That's it. That's the issue and nothing else.


You're ignoring the decision-making process that resulted in *publicly* declared support (and have provided no basis for your allegation that it was "uncritical"). You're also ignoring that there's been little coverage of note of fash/anti-fash actions in Woolwich or Lewisham on Sat.


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## Nice one (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:


> You're ignoring the decision-making process that resulted in *publicly* declared support (and have provided no basis for your allegation that it was "uncritical"). You're also ignoring that there's been little coverage of note of fash/anti-fash actions in Woolwich or Lewisham on Sat.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one said:


>


What don't you understand? It's like a church hall community centre, only Muslim instead of CoE. What's the big deal?


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## Tom A (Jun 3, 2013)

J Ed said:


> The fash are using the flag as further evidence that the UAF don't want them to lay flowers 'cos they are pro-terrorist commies all over twitter too.


Nice to know the SWP/UAF are learning from the mistakes of the Stop the War Coalition and Respect.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2013)

130 of them in my home town
http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/n...rch-held-in-northampton-town-centre-1-5148856

all quiet and civilised apparently. was 80 miles away, so have to rely on the local newspapers shitty website for info.

first showing for e-e-e- in northampton afaik.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

I guess news of the new Lib Dem/EDL coalition ought to go on here (originally posted by frogwoman on the why the lib dems are shit thread)

http://tonybrett.mycouncillor.org.uk/2013/06/01/overstepping-the-mark-with-protest/ (read the comments)


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## Tom A (Jun 3, 2013)

I got wind of that on Facebook, not sure if he's being a particularly moronic wet wiberal or a reactionary piece of shite. Either way his comment is completely deplorable.


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## Delroy Booth (Jun 3, 2013)

One more for the list.

"Folks – ask yourself this: Would a fascist or fascist supporter approve so many comments that disagreed with his point of view?"

_I can't be a fascist, look I let my opponents add comments to my blog, therefore I can march with the EDL and if you call me a fascist for it you're wrong._


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

Tom A said:


> I got wind of that on Facebook, not sure if he's being a particularly moronic wet wiberal or a reactionary piece of shite. Either way his comment is completely deplorable.


He's clearly very naive to think that he will come out of this unscathed (the only Lib Dem I know reckons he'll soon be an independent and I'm inclined to believe it) but the obvious squirming and changing of the story suggests to me that he's either sympathetic or is attempting to appeal to those who are. Given that he's a Lib Dem and they generally don't really believe in anything beyond advancing their own careers I'm inclined to think that he did this for political capital. Which means he's also really fucking stupid.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> One more for the list.
> 
> "Folks – ask yourself this: Would a fascist or fascist supporter approve so many comments that disagreed with his point of view?"
> 
> _I can't be a fascist, look I let my opponents add comments to my blog, therefore I can march with the EDL and if you call me a fascist for it you're wrong._


 
A mate of mine from the SP (you know him, AT) was asked only a couple of weeks ago to attend a National Front meeting for a debate, and he was given guarantees as to his safety and right to speak, and the NF man in return wanted to come and do the same at one of our meetings.

He's obviously not a fascist either.

(He turned him down, obviously, and I don't actually think Brett is a fascist - just a massive twat)


----------



## Nigel (Jun 3, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I guess news of the new Lib Dem/EDL coalition ought to go on here (originally posted by frogwoman on the why the lib dems are shit thread)
> 
> http://tonybrett.mycouncillor.org.uk/2013/06/01/overstepping-the-mark-with-protest/ (read the comments)


http://www.change.org/petitions/ton...or-of-oxford-and-lib-dem-councillor-to-resign


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

Fuckin nora, the guy's an out and out moron.



> disgraceful rabble


Go on Brett, sneer at the proles a bit more. 


> There was no sign of anyone who looked even vaguely EDL-like (whatever that is).


Well, that's fucking conclusive then. No one with a swastika tattooed on their forehead, so clearly no fash present? 


> I went along to something happening in my ward to support peace and hope. I don’t even know who the leader of the EDL is and am not interested in that.


Well before turning up to their event Brett, perhaps you really _ought_ to be a bit more interested. 


> You say I should hate _all_ EDL people because _some_ of them engage in hateful activities. Would you say I should hate _all_ members of other groups (perhaps faiths or races) if _some_ of their members engaged in hateful activities?


Dude...seriously? You're a fuckin idiot.


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## ddraig (Jun 3, 2013)

like the organiser of walk for Lee Rigby in Cardiff that got posted by edl and casuals saying the nazi with them was respectful! 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/509898.html?c=on#c295009


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## Citizen66 (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:
			
		

> What don't you understand? It's like a church hall community centre, only Muslim instead of CoE. What's the big deal?



Do anarchists support CofE as well then?


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Do anarchists support CofE as well then?


D'ya think they ought to only support the atheist w/c


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## Citizen66 (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:
			
		

> D'ya think they ought to only support the atheist w/c



Well no. But obviously there's issues centred around the cultural conservatism that can be found in places of worship.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well no. But obviously there's issues centred around the cultural conservatism that can be found in places of worship.


Well yes. I imagine that forms part of the discussion. But it's unlikely (in areas such as Lewisham and Woolwich) to take precedence over class struggle, solidarity and support.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:
			
		

> Well yes. I imagine that forms part of the discussion. But it's unlikely (in areas such as Lewisham and Woolwich) to take precedence over class struggle, solidarity and support.



It's certainly a delicate balancing act between offering solidarity to muslim w/c whilst also not bolstering imams preaching gender segregation and the such.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> It's certainly a delicate balancing act between offering solidarity to muslim w/c whilst also not bolstering imams preaching gender segregation and the such.


Yes. However, fortunately Saturday's actions didn't seem to be designed for any such bolstering. Also, this was anti-fascist action carried out by a number of people including (or even primarily) anarchists, rather than day to day anarchism work.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:
			
		

> Yes. However, fortunately Saturday's actions didn't seem to be designed for any such bolstering. Also, this was anti-fascist action carried out by a number of people including (or even primarily) anarchists, rather than day to day anarchism work.



Fair dos.


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

i don't think religious establishments are hotbeds of class struggle lol.

although they do provide a community, they do do things like put on cultural events and education for people who often havent had that much exposure to things like that, they also have events that are nothing to do with religion like walks, playing cards, showing films, (about something related to religion usually though lol) they also do stuff like help people out financially or go and visit old people in their homes, do shopping etc, the synagogue has some people that do a councelling service and i imagine a lot of churches and mosques do too.

round here the churches mosques, synagogues and i imagine other religions like hindus and sikhs all do food banks (and for the local synagogue i know fr a fact its not just for members of that religion either) and help out the homeless and often help at each others events.

there's not always that much wrong with it, especially when different religions are doing it all jointly, although it shouldn't be left to religious leaders etc to organise and take control of and impose the agenda of their religion (whatever it is) onto it. It is a bit crap though that it's all down to religious organisations who often have reactionary politics in one way or another, or at best they defo aren't really going to encourage the politics of class struggle lol . and of course you have to be involved in those "networks" (and most people aren't) to be able to have access to it, or at least know someone who is. most people arent regular church goers or whatever.

im probably talking bollocks, im a bit confused about this myself


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Plus many w/c communities of this type have many varied people from a variety of different heritages and nationalities, and the religious aspect is woven within all that. Difficult to disentangle. But as far as class struggle is concerned, anything that makes the lives of w/c people harder is something that should be resisted. I didn't mean to imply that this community centre was a hotbed of class struggle - more that it's one aspect of an overall community where class struggle is day to day existence, and they are part of that, not separate by virtue of their religion.


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well no. But obviously there's issues centred around the cultural conservatism that can be found in places of worship.


 
Sometimes.  But there are also CofE churches who's congregations do a hell of a lot to support their communities (debt management courses, CV writing and employment coaching, soup kitchens etc) - open to all faiths, sexualities, etc  and not always even flagged as a 'church' effort, let alone evangelical or preachy.

Problem is that people never associate those ones with churches, precisely because they _*don't*_ shout about the connection - they just get on with it because they think it's the right thing to do - so what people remember 'the church' doing is only the ones that use these courses and stuff as a way of proselytising people.


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## sihhi (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one said:


> what is?
> 
> Here's the uncritical support i was refering to.
> 
> ...


 
The last sentence (which you purposefully chopped halfway through the middle) is from the general point:




> It was agreed that there needed to be at least two demonstrations that would be stewarded and coordinated for mutual aid and support. UAF will be mobilising for their demonstration at General Gordon Square in Woolwich on Saturday midday, details are here.
> 
> The Lewisham Centre will organise and hold their public rally outside their building on Saturday from 2pm, their address is below:
> 
> ...


 
http://www.tmponline.org/2013/05/30/slaf-diversity-woolwich

They're saying for the reasons they've given, they're Lewisham people they are staying in Lewisham, people from north or west london can go to the Whitehall protest.


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare

I think for a lot of especially older people having the support of the community is a bit of a lifeline. There are a lot of old people who go to the local shul which ive been going to on and off (mostly off tbh ) for years who probably wouldnt get out much at all, dont have any family in the area, quite alot of of them are disabled, some of them escaped during the war etc and a lot of them would not have any social support were it not for the people they know there, and it's not even necessarily about religion. I know it's the same at Churches as well, they are full of old people  and i'd imagine it is in mosques as well. I have my own issues with it but I think that unless they are deliberately exclusionary/preaching hate etc then i dont think there's all that much wrong. I also think that there's a difference between the religious side and the social side and many people just go to these things for the social side.

I think this type of stuff is the sort of stuff that "the left" for want of a better word used to be a lot better at, I know they are a lot better in places like Italy for it, chilango, Fedayn etc probably know more about that than I do!


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> Sometimes. But there are also CofE churches who's congregations do a hell of a lot to support their communities (debt management courses, CV writing and employment coaching, soup kitchens etc) - open to all faiths, sexualities, etc and not always even flagged as a 'church' effort, let alone evangelical or preachy.
> 
> Problem is that people never associate those ones with churches, precisely because they _*don't*_ shout about the connection - they just get on with it because they think it's the right thing to do - so what people remember 'the church' doing is only the ones that use these courses and stuff as a way of proselytising people.


 
yep, and also churches/places of worship that hire out their halls to community groups.


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

I just had a thought regarding Islamist Terrorists. I might be completely wrong but I seem to remember that after the 7/7 bombings, it was discovered that Siddique Khan etc had actually left the local mosque they were going to because it wasn't "religious" (ie islamist) enough for them, and they were getting radicalised through speaking to each other and other people, i think concerns were expressed and then they had left. They had gone to a more religious one and then had eventually stopped going to that and ended up going to each others houses among small groups of Islamists who thought the same way they did. So rather than radicalising them the people at the mosque and that sort of "normal" religious environment, rather than one committed to Islamism and jihad, could have actually acted like a brake on their activities but they didn't want to listen to them. Obviously that might be a bit simplistic but i think it does show the importance of community based stuff to some extent.


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## Fedayn (Jun 3, 2013)

One of the positive steps in Italy in terms of 'support' has been the establishment of social centres over the past decades. That the far-right have cottoned on shows how well developed and useful they were/are. What you also have in Italy is a far more politicised priesthood, ranging from far-right to far-Left. As chilango will know a very famous former partisan and left-wing priest Don Gallo died recently. An almost legendary man who was a great example of the progressive element amongst the church...


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> cesare
> 
> I think for a lot of especially older people having the support of the community is a bit of a lifeline. There are a lot of old people who go to the local shul which ive been going to on and off (mostly off tbh ) for years who probably wouldnt get out much at all, dont have any family in the area, quite alot of of them are disabled, some of them escaped during the war etc and a lot of them would not have any social support were it not for the people they know there, and it's not even necessarily about religion. I know it's the same at Churches as well, they are full of old people  and i'd imagine it is in mosques as well. I have my own issues with it but I think that unless they are deliberately exclusionary/preaching hate etc then i dont think there's all that much wrong. I also think that there's a difference between the religious side and the social side and many people just go to these things for the social side.
> 
> I think this type of stuff is the sort of stuff that "the left" for want of a better word used to be a lot better at, I know they are a lot better in places like Italy for it, chilango, Fedayn etc probably know more about that than I do!


 
Definitely the same at churches - my mum goes to the one in their village and usually takes my dad. They've had loads of support from there that nobody else would or could offer when by brother died and then when my mum got ill. My dad doesn't even believe in God but he still went yesterday even though she was in hospital and couldn't go - because of the social side of it.

The left once did this better than anyone. I know more about mining villages than anything else and anything people needed help with they went to the union - debts, help with forms, troubles with the neighbours - everything. The union and the workingmens club was the hub of the community and that's all gone now. Even where they still exist a lot of working mens clubs are basically just pubs these days.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> yep, and also churches/places of worship that hire out their halls to community groups.


Definitely and they're not necessarily community groups specific to that religion. All sorts of activities take place, from kid's birthday parties to computer classes.


----------



## nutnut (Jun 3, 2013)

Quick observation in my area - local churches are cosying up to the BNP on the street (obviously shit-scared of the muslim 'take-over' ).


----------



## Nice one (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> The last sentence (which you purposefully chopped halfway through the middle) is from the general point:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
simply not true. That statement came out before the decision to move the demo to whitehall. They are saying people should chose which demo to go to - either woolwich or lewisham (both in south london). SLAF had chose lewisham. But again that isn't the point. The point is the role and purpose of south london anti-fascists is made clear - to support the Lewisham Islamic centre.

Which is absolutely fine, except lewisham islamic centre has got some pretty fucked up perspectives. This is from their official newsletter (granted published in 2010):
"Say you are in the mall or outside somewhere and you happen to see a homosexual “couple” kissing. Do you just walk past as though nothing happened? Absolutely not! Rather, turn your child’s face away as you too look away and show through your body language, facial expressions and words how disgusted you are by that sight. When the child sees this from you, he’ll grow up knowing this is filthy, unacceptable and deviant behaviour".
http://www.lewishamislamiccentre.com/downloads/As-Sahwah/2010-03.pdf

Also LIC imam Shakeel Begg (along with many other muslim leaders) recently spoke out against the marriage (same sex couples) bill:

"Muslim parents will be robbed of their right to raise their children according to their beliefs, as gay relationships are taught as something normal to their primary-aged children.
We support the numerous calls from other faith leaders and communities who have stood firmly against gay marriage and instead support marriage as it should be, between a man and a woman".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/10065280/Muslim-leaders-stand-against-gay-marriage.html

SLAF narrative for the day was one of preventing divisions within communities. Now there needs to be some critical engagament here because the issues involved go beyond simply defending the mosque against the racist bnp. A more nuanced approach, especially from politically progressive radcials, would avoid supporting one reactionary bigoted institution over another.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Quick observation in my area - local churches are cosying up to the BNP on the street (obviously shit-scared of the muslim 'take-over' ).


What area are you in? (If you don't mind me asking)


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Quick observation in my area - local churches are cosying up to the BNP on the street (obviously shit-scared of the muslim 'take-over' ).


 
Which churches and where? Sounds a bit unlikely if you ask me.

Edit: unless you mean church-goers rather than the churches themselves.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Definitely the same at churches - my mum goes to the one in their village and usually takes my dad. They've had loads of support from there that nobody else would or could offer when by brother died and then when my mum got ill. My dad doesn't even believe in God but he still went yesterday even though she was in hospital and couldn't go - because of the social side of it.
> 
> The left once did this better than anyone. I know more about mining villages than anything else and anything people needed help with they went to the union - debts, help with forms, troubles with the neighbours - everything. The union and the workingmens club was the hub of the community and that's all gone now. Even where they still exist a lot of working mens clubs are basically just pubs these days.


 
ye theres a working men's club in my village and while it does have some community functions etc its basically just a pub.


----------



## nutnut (Jun 3, 2013)

Just outside Romford ( BNP + local 'street' churches giving out leaflets within spitting distance of each other).  Megga paranoid area due to the Woolwich incident.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one said:


> simply not true. That statement came out before the decision to move the demo to whitehall. They are saying people should chose which demo to go to - either woolwich or lewisham (both in south london). SLAF had chose lewisham. But again that isn't the point. The point is the role and purpose of south london anti-fascists is made clear - to support the Lewisham Islamic centre.
> 
> Which is absolutely fine, except lewisham islamic centre has got some pretty fucked up perspectives. This is from their official newsletter (granted published in 2010):
> "Say you are in the mall or outside somewhere and you happen to see a homosexual “couple” kissing. Do you just walk past as though nothing happened? Absolutely not! Rather, turn your child’s face away as you too look away and show through your body language, facial expressions and words how disgusted you are by that sight. When the child sees this from you, he’ll grow up knowing this is filthy, unacceptable and deviant behaviour".
> ...


 
What would you suggest as an alternative? Allowing the EDL the freedom to attack it on the basis of some dodgy social/political views? Or something else?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Just outside Romford ( BNP + local 'street' churches giving out leaflets within spitting distance of each other). Megga paranoid area due to the Woolwich incident.


 
Is there much interaction between them? And do you know which denomination they are? (I'm asking because something could maybe be done about it if they're CofE or one of the other 'mainstream' denominations).

Ah sorry, missed where you said street churches - are they evangelical types?


----------



## sihhi (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one said:


> SLAF narrative for the day was one of preventing divisions within communities. Now there needs to be some critical engagament here because the issues involved go beyond simply defending the mosque against the racist bnp. A more nuanced approach, especially from politically progressive radcials, would avoid supporting one reactionary bigoted institution over another.


 
I apologise there've been a lot of slanders against people on Saturday so I jumped to retread an argument with someone else and didn't consider when the communique was sent.

In general, we can see that only a minority of mosques in Britain support gay marriage and the rights of say teenagers to express their homosexuality publicly Lewisham one is part of the wider reality.

However I think we also need some nuance in our criticism of UAF and SLAF too, their support - if we can call it that - was for one day only, not great but not something systematic unlike for instance RESPECT.


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Just outside Romford ( BNP + local 'street' churches giving out leaflets within spitting distance of each other).  Megga paranoid area due to the Woolwich incident.


Worried about reprisals because one of the Woolwich Islamacists was from there? Or worried that there might be similar incidents there? Perhaps both, of course.


----------



## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Which churches and where? Sounds a bit unlikely if you ask me.


 
Depends very much on the church IMO.

One of the notable things about the CofE is how massively varied the churches are. There's those that verge on catholicism with high-church bells and incense, there's uber happy-clappy evangelicals, there's those that smell of right wing bigotry that give sermons about homosexuals all going to hell, and there's those that are inclusive to all and devote their time and cash to the 'mission' stuff that I described earlier without making a fuss about it. I'm a regular at one of the latter, but despite technically being the same denomination I wouldn't be at all comfortable attending those in the first two categories, and if I pitched up at one in the third I'd probably end up getting in a very unChristian fist-fight...


----------



## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Just outside Romford ( BNP + local 'street' churches giving out leaflets within spitting distance of each other). Megga paranoid area due to the Woolwich incident.


 
The same leaflets?  Or is it just that they were on the same street?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> Depends very much on the church IMO.
> 
> One of the notable things about the CofE is how massively varied the churches are. There's those that verge on catholicism with high-church bells and incense, there's uber happy-clappy evangelicals, there's those that smell of right wing bigotry that give sermons about homosexuals all going to hell, and there's those that are inclusive to all and devote their time and cash to the 'mission' stuff that I described earlier without making a fuss about it. I'm a regular at one of the latter, but despite technically being the same denomination I wouldn't be at all comfortable attending those in the first two categories, and if I pitched up at one in the third I'd probably end up getting in a very unChristian fist-fight...


 
Yeah - they're a bit like Lib Dems - tailor their views to fit with their target audience. But I think even if it was the right wing ones doing it the higher ups would have something to say if they found out about this. They might tolerate them saying the same stuff as the BNP but it's too damaging for their reputation to have them actively cooperating with them.


----------



## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yeah - they're a bit like Lib Dems - tailor their views to fit with their target audience. But I think even if it was the right wing ones doing it the higher ups would have something to say if they found out about this. They might tolerate them saying the same stuff as the BNP but it's too damaging for their reputation to have them actively cooperating with them.


 
I think you may be crediting the CofE's official hierarchy and officialdom (as opposed to congregations and local vicars etc), with rather more backbone than is perhaps justified...


----------



## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> I apologise there've been a lot of slanders against people on Saturday so I jumped to retread an argument with someone else and didn't consider when the communique was sent.
> 
> In general, we can see that only a minority of mosques in Britain support gay marriage and the rights of say teenagers to express their homosexuality publicly Lewisham one is part of the wider reality.
> 
> However I think we also need some nuance in our criticism of UAF and SLAF too, their support - if we can call it that - was for one day only, not great but not something systematic unlike for instance RESPECT.


If you look at the timeline on the facebook event that SLAF communique was issued after the joint meeting at the IC when all this had been discussed: https://www.facebook.com/events/188514991305187/


----------



## nutnut (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> The same leaflets? Or is it just that they were on the same street?


 Different leaflets (same agenda?).

(Piss poor EDL turnout in Romford Market on Saturday).


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> I think you may be crediting the CofE's official hierarchy and officialdom (as opposed to congregations and local vicars etc), with rather more backbone than is perhaps justified...


 
It's not about backbone any more than Clegg investigating that sex case is about backbone - quite the opposite.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Different leaflets (same agenda?).
> 
> (Piss poor EDL turnout in Romford Market on Saturday).


 
Other than them holding stalls next to each other what other evidence is there of collusion (sorry if it feels like I'm grilling you - I'm not having a go or anything, just trying to get my head around what's going off).


----------



## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Different leaflets (same agenda?).
> 
> (Piss poor EDL turnout in Romford Market on Saturday).


 
So you think they were cosying up with the BNP purely because they were both leafleting (with different leaflets) on the same high street?  

Sorry - I'm not trying to be difficult or owt - I'm just not sure where you're coming from.  You mention the 'same agenda' - what was the content of their respective leaflets?  Were they both stirring islamophobia or something?


----------



## sihhi (Jun 3, 2013)

I am confused by all the times and changes to be honest.

The question of what to when the BNP does come to an area and demand deportation of 'hate preachers' (which other people nevertheless see as part of their place of worship) - is still an open one.

If we defend the right of preachers to stay we're in danger of assisting homophobia etc.
If we say 'go fight yourselves', it's likely that the BNP argument will win and the axe can swing to step up immigration checks and deportation of eg workers on permits or visas who take part in unauthorised strikes and are seen as 'militants'.

There seems no good answer.


----------



## nutnut (Jun 3, 2013)

I am all for same-sex marriages so all people have the same rights in law. But why would anybody go near a fucking church to get married?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

Nice one
the place ive been talking about and i was a regular at throughout my teens organises trips to israel for teenagers, there are israeli flags on a billboard by the door etc. when the latest israeli attack happened in december they sent an email to all members telling them of what the israeli ambassor had said (although the rabbi then put an opposing view in his email and then sent another one out judging by some of the replies that he was probably anticipating getting). one of the things that made me stop going for a long time was the fact that in one children's service I went to, I saw them teach kids of pre school age about how great israel is as a country, and make them do puzzles about it in the service, i was pretty disgusted when i saw that and didnt go for ages and ages after that. ive heard people in the congregation say dodgy things, mostly zionism/israel related, but also the odd dodgy thing about gays, although i think they support gay marriage quite openly. its not a requirement of joining to be a zionist or anything but i think people with even my views would be in a bit of a minority (although increasingly not that much of one)

that doesnt mean i would be happy about say the edl or some conspiraloons group marching around there unopposed though, in fact i'd be fucking livid about it, especially if people didnt want to oppose the march and the reason given was "zionists palestine blah blah blah" i would be bitching about on here for fucking weeks 

Id imagine people who grew up catholic and going to catholic churches and there was some orange/loyalist/fash parade in the area and then people were like "yeah but dont oppose it coz of the pope/child abuse/condoms" would equally piss people off wouldnt it?

i imagine there are some similarly unsavoury views in the local mosque and i know a lot of local churches have odd/dodgy views on abortion etc. im not familiar with this particular case so i might be talking shite but allowing the edl to march opposed somewhere or at least not organising any oppo to it because of the people organising the centre having dodgy views it might end up pissing people off that are nothing to do with it. Unless I am wrong and they really are a bunch of hardcore islamists but from what cesare said it didn't seem like it did  If they were hardcore Islamists then fair enough, fuck em and feel free to ignore this post, but from what people are saying seems like just a community centre/mosque.


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> I am confused by all the times and changes to be honest.
> 
> The question of what to when the BNP does come to an area and demand deportation of 'hate preachers' (which other people nevertheless see as part of their place of worship) - is still an open one.
> 
> ...


 
Hard to make a catchy banner or chant to sum it up I guess.


> What do we want?  Not to condone the extremist preachers but neither are we going to let far-right extremists use them as an excuse for their thinly-veiled racism and xenophobia! When do we want it?  etc...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> i imagine there are some similarly unsavoury views in the local mosque and i know a lot of local churches have odd/dodgy views on abortion etc. im not familiar with this particular case so i might be talking shite but allowing the edl to march opposed somewhere or at least not organising any oppo to it because of the people organising the centre having dodgy views it might end up pissing people off that are nothing to do with it. Unless I am wrong and they really are a bunch of hardcore islamists but from what cesare said it didn't seem like it did  If they were hardcore Islamists then fair enough, fuck em and feel free to ignore this post, but from what people are saying seems like just a community centre/mosque.


 
I think that you're absolutely right, and that was more or less what I was trying to explain to several people today. Even if you think there's a problem, and there may well be, there's a time and a place to confront that problem and that time and place is not when a group of violent racists is trying to target people because they are Muslim or look Muslim.

I think the Orange Order is a good analogy. The Catholic Church has a serious case to answer on an array of different issues, practicing and ex-Catholics think that more than anyone really, but you're not going to line up with the UVF because you're angry about Catholic policy on gay marriage, paedophilia or condoms.


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

yeah that would make absolutely no sense


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> I am confused by all the times and changes to be honest.
> 
> The question of what to when the BNP does come to an area and demand deportation of 'hate preachers' (which other people nevertheless see as part of their place of worship) - is still an open one.
> 
> ...


I'm possibly clearer about the times and changes because I've been watching it more closely, for various reasons. But to your "hate preachers" point - I don't interpret the anti-fascist actions as defending the rights of hate preachers (however the BNP define "hate"). I interpret the anti-fa actions as defending a section of the local community under attack from a far right group. As it happens, the Met intervened to divert the BNP actions.


----------



## sihhi (Jun 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Nice one
> the place ive been talking about and i was a regular at throughout my teens organises trips to israel for teenagers, there are israeli flags on a billboard by the door etc. when the latest israeli attack happened in december they sent an email to all members telling them of what the israeli ambassor had said (although the rabbi then put an opposing view in his email and then sent another one out judging by some of the replies that he was probably anticipating getting). one of the things that made me stop going for a long time was the fact that they teach kids of pre school age about how great israel is as a country, and make them do puzzles about it in the service, i was pretty disgusted when i saw that and didnt go for ages and ages after that. ive heard people say dodgy things, mostly zionism/israel related, but also the odd dodgy thing about gays, although i think they support gay marriage quite openly. its not a requirement of joining to be a zionist or anything but i think people with even my views would be in a bit of a minority (although increasingly not that much of one)
> 
> that doesnt mean i would be happy about say the edl or some conspiraloons group marching around there unopposed though, in fact i'd be fucking livid about it, especially if people didnt want to oppose the march and the reason given was "zionists palestine blah blah blah"


 
Many people from small minority communities experience exactly the same thing ...
gurdwara schools explaining that the Indian state is perpetuating ongoing genocide against Sikhs, Turkish schools that explain there is a British-Greek conspiracy against the country, Muslim schools that say Muslims who give up the faith should be treated as outsiders and shunned as god intends from passages in the koran, Albanian schools that explain that all of Kosova belongs in Albania and there is a conspiracy to tar the Albanian state as discriminatory. 

At the same time, mainstream culture can also normalise militarist honour (by leaving out all aspects of function/purpose/reality) in the very young by games and fun. Classes of primary school children are awarded tickets to a British Military Tattoo featuring returning Iraq and Afghan soldiers as pride of place marching up the sides. Thus allowing any attempt at questioning the content to be forced back onto territory like 'and what about you? at least we don't invade other countries we just defend our own'

So it's hard to organise proper opposition to these things in minority parts of the country without attention.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> So it's hard to organise proper opposition to these things in minority parts of the country without attention.


 

It's only going to get worse with the growth of faith schools and free schools too. Another wonderful legacy of Tony Blair.


----------



## nutnut (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> So you think they were cosying up with the BNP purely because they were both leafleting (with different leaflets) on the same high street?
> 
> Sorry - I'm not trying to be difficult or owt - I'm just not sure where you're coming from. You mention the 'same agenda' - what was the content of their respective leaflets? Were they both stirring islamophobia or something?


 
OK - The BNP hold a 'food bank' stall, targeting mainly the elderly.

At the same time there is a new 'street church' movement handing out leaflets and praying for people.

These two groups are seperated by about 20 feet. Lots of laughter and chat between them.

I must stress this is in my local shopping area, and may not be the norm elsewhere.

Am keeping an eye on further developements.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Many people from small minority communities experience exactly the same thing ...
> gurdwara schools explaining that the Indian state is perpetuating ongoing genocide against Sikhs, Turkish schools that explain there is a British-Greek conspiracy against the country, Muslim schools that say Muslims who give up the faith should be treated as outsiders and shunned as god intends from passages in the koran, Albanian schools that explain that all of Kosova belongs in Albania and there is a conspiracy to tar the Albanian state as discriminatory.
> 
> At the same time, mainstream culture can also normalise militarist honour (by leaving out all aspects of function/purpose/reality) in the very young by games and fun. Classes of primary school children are awarded tickets to a British Military Tattoo featuring returning Iraq and Afghan soldiers as pride of place marching up the sides. Thus allowing any attempt at questioning the content to be forced back onto territory like 'and what about you? at least we don't invade other countries we just defend our own'
> ...


 
yeah, to be fair, this (the childrens service thing) was ages ago, like in 2009 or so and i think things might have significantly changed since then (although not everywhere), i think i could quite comfortably say most of what i think about israel, zionism, and palestine to many people there and not get that much stick for it, I think cast lead and its aftermath was a bit of a turning point for a lot of people. i was a bit of an "angry atheist" in those days though lol so perhaps im remembering it as worse than it was, but it was pretty bad.

you're right though. It's hard to oppose this stuff, but then again if a group of violent racists wanted to organise some sort of march there still has to be some sort of opposition to it. I mean if they're extremist islamists/zionists/whatever then yeah fuck them but a lot of people have "soft" support of those sort of views, and I dont think not organising any oppo to that sort of event is going to help, a lot of people adopt those sort of views because they feel under attack and they want "defence".


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## sihhi (Jun 3, 2013)

I understand your point cesare but I also see Nice One's about the tone of some it from SLAF stuff



> In Woolwich, we thank activists from the Movement for Justice who kept an eye on the local Islamic Centre and spoke with young black people about the current situation. In Lewisham, various antifascists from the local Trade Union Council, Newham Monitoring Project,  and other people from the local community came together to support Lewisham Islamic Centre. The Centre in response held a meal for all who attended on the day.


 
I can't properly understand their conclusions here - what imperial roots are they talking about?



> Our movement has many challenges ahead, we are too white and disconnected from the migrant communities and activists that are directly affected by Islamophobia, xenophobia and racism. Racism, sexism and fascism doesn’t just appear in fascist marches and pitch battles against the police. It happens in the workplace, in the national newspapers, during stop-and-searches, through local councils and the corridors of power in Westminster. Popular racism is endemic in British institutions and mainstream culture. In response to this, we as antifascists must develop a genuine diversity of tactics and a coherent strategy to pull racist ideologies and power structures up from its imperial roots in the British state. Our autonomous struggle is against police brutality, the murder of migrants labelled “asylum seekers”, the countless deaths in custody, the demonisation of Romanians and Bulgarians, and against the inability to leave your home because of the fear of being attacked for being different.


 
If you just want to defeat the BNP, UKIP, EDL - fine - but you need attack where they are weak, on _their (potential) _divisions - ie class-based resistance that reaches right into their heartlands, doesn't stay at the confines of calling for a left vote for UNITE leadership, condemning imperial roots and 

If we have to mention them by name then attack on class or wealth lines (the aim is to create a white working-class breakaway by pressure and whole-working-class organisation):- why Griffin has a massive farmhouse in Wales to speak for poor white people; where the UKIP money comes from who drives the policy; for what reason the EDL calls for a UKIP vote and warns 'leaders must start addressing the consequences of their policy of unrestricted immigration or there is a very real danger that they will face the “backlash” we all fear.'


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> OK - The BNP hold a 'food bank' stall, targeting mainly the elderly.
> 
> At the same time there is a new 'street church' movement handing out leaflets and praying for people.
> 
> ...


Okay, I think I've got a better mental picture of what gave you concern now - ta.


nutnut said:


> Am keeping an eye on further developements.


Aye, do. If it turns out they're actually collaborating in some way (or if they do as things develop), there may be something that can be done about it.


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## sihhi (Jun 3, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It's only going to get worse with the growth of faith schools and free schools too. Another wonderful legacy of Tony Blair.


 
Well if you look at Lewisham Islamic Centre's website you can see its Muslim primary school on Lewisham High Street:- 




> We are an inclusive Muslim faith school that welcomes children from all
> backgrounds and abilities.
> 2.2 All applications will be treated on merit and in a sensitive manner.
> 2.3 If at any time there are more children seeking admission than there are appropriate
> ...


 

It's very soft not going to be like a weekend mosque school that says all ex-Muslims need to be reminded of their sin, but it will be almost wholly Muslim, why would anyone non-Muslim pay to send their kid there?
The inter-communal group bonds will have to be formed outside of school, which the Islamic Centre will no doubt take the credit for by having a festival days and meal once a year at Eid for outside non-Muslim people.
(I'd say do go to these kinds of events though even if does feel like 'giving support' if only to engage in non-threatening but direct questions to tease out their faith school nonsense, perhaps by pointing out the more faith schools there are the better private schools have an excuse to exist)


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi I don't know much about them beyond what was co-ordinated on Saturday (I can't bring up your linked Wordpress site at the moment, I don't know why - perhaps it's busy). I was answering the criticisms at face value and in the context of the days leading up to Saturday which is set out in more detail on the other thread. As far as Saturday is concerned, whilst I appreciate that there are various criticisms, overall I think the response was effective and proportionate. 

In terms of a wider criticism of the SLAF group, I'm not really in a position yet to comment properly although I don't like "imperial" and "imperialism" because it sets my antennae twitching ie what do they mean by that, exactly.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> OK - The BNP hold a 'food bank' stall, targeting mainly the elderly.
> 
> At the same time there is a new 'street church' movement handing out leaflets and praying for people.
> 
> ...


 
Are the BNP holding stalls unopposed then? Foodbank stuff is worrying IMO - learning from the Golden Dawn? And I guess it means any opposition has to be a bit more sophisticated than usual.


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> OK - The BNP hold a 'food bank' stall, targeting mainly the elderly.
> 
> At the same time there is a new 'street church' movement handing out leaflets and praying for people.
> 
> ...


 
I would take some of the "street church"'s literature next time you see them. Obviously make sure there is no risk to yourself when doing so or anything! but i've seen some weird "church" type groups in the street recently where I work, very fundamentalist, protesting against atheism and homosexuality, more like a Westboro baptist church type outfit almost than something you'd get in the UK.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> (I'd say do go to these kinds of events though even if does feel like 'giving support' if only to engage in non-threatening but direct questions to tease out their faith school nonsense, perhaps by pointing out the more faith schools there are the better private schools have an excuse to exist)


 
And also to take advantage of the free grub


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## J Ed (Jun 3, 2013)

nutnut said:


> OK - The BNP hold a 'food bank' stall, targeting mainly the elderly.
> 
> At the same time there is a new 'street church' movement handing out leaflets and praying for people.
> 
> ...


 

How long has the foodbank thing been going on for?


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## Delroy Booth (Jun 3, 2013)

sihhi said:


> Well if you look at Lewisham Islamic Centre's website you can see its Muslim primary school on Lewisham High Street:-
> 
> It's very soft not going to be like a weekend mosque school that says all ex-Muslims need to be reminded of their sin, but it will be almost wholly Muslim, why would anyone non-Muslim pay to send their kid there?
> The inter-communal group bonds will have to be formed outside of school, which the Islamic Centre will no doubt take the credit for by having a festival days and meal once a year at Eid for outside non-Muslim people.
> (I'd say do go to these kinds of events though even if does feel like 'giving support' if only to engage in non-threatening but direct questions to tease out their faith school nonsense, perhaps by pointing out the more faith schools there are the better private schools have an excuse to exist)


 
Deeply worrying some of this stuff. Not just in regards to Muslim schools in particular but all religious education. In my part of the world there's a few campaigns being run to try and introduce an Islamic girls school in Dewsbury along these sorts of lines, which would make an already segregated community even more segregated. Lot more I could go into here but it's not the right thread for it.


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## J Ed (Jun 3, 2013)

Le Front National have been doing it for a while, even pre-crisis, but I haven't heard of it happening here


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Le Front National have been doing it for a while, even pre-crisis, but I haven't heard of it happening here


 
Me neither. Does anyone know of any antifascist groups or anything like that in the area? Might be a good idea to put nutnut in touch with them. This could potentially be very fruitful for them so it's best people start working out how to tackle it now rather than when they've won the support of loads of people by providing food.

This also goes to show how important it is that the left starts sorting its act out on this stuff too. It's too important to just leave it.


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Our food bank in Tower Hamlets is run by a very odd charity.

http://www.towerhamletsfoodbank.org.uk/

http://www.thelovefoundation.com/


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:


> Our food bank in Tower Hamlets is run by a very odd charity.
> 
> http://www.towerhamletsfoodbank.org.uk/
> 
> http://www.thelovefoundation.com/


 
awesome


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> awesome


That might be the wrong charity 

*further googling*


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## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2013)

says "first love foundation" lol


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> says "first love foundation" lol


That's the name of it


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## cesare (Jun 3, 2013)

Oh, here we are. It's not an odd US one, it's a faith charity. Again with the religion.

http://www.charityjob.co.uk/RecruitersAZ/18246/First Love Foundation.aspx


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## J Ed (Jun 3, 2013)

cesare said:


> Oh, here we are. It's not an odd US one, it's a faith charity. Again with the religion.
> 
> http://www.charityjob.co.uk/RecruitersAZ/18246/First Love Foundation.aspx


 

There was a lot of talk in 2009 about the Big Society being inspired by the US model, IIRC Steve Hilton cited Kansas specifically, of faith based welfare. This is intentional. I have a little bit of experience of this because I worked with a few US faith groups that provide welfare in hurricane clean up a few years ago, and while most of the volunteers I worked with were good people I'm horrified that *they* are the people responsible for providing welfare to anyone.

http://www.trusselltrust.org/resour...ing-the-Growth-of-Foodbanks-Across-the-UK.pdf this report is interesting reading, even though it's very biased in favour of the Trussell Trust (a religious organisation, in Sheffield at least based mostly in Evangelical Churches) it's worth reading the experiences of food bank users. They unsurprisingly feel disempowered, humiliated and degraded.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2013)

On the subject of America, Fox News' Bill O'Reilly is having Tommy Robinson on his hour of hate on Thursday. I'm actually really interested to see how they will spin it.


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## Delroy Booth (Jun 3, 2013)

J Ed said:


> On the subject of America, Fox News' Bill O'Reilly is having Tommy Robinson on his hour of hate on Thursday. I'm actually really interested to see how they will spin it.


 
wtf? Jesus Christ.


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> cesare
> 
> I think for a lot of especially older people having the support of the community is a bit of a lifeline. There are a lot of old people who go to the local shul which ive been going to on and off (mostly off tbh ) for years who probably wouldnt get out much at all, dont have any family in the area, quite alot of of them are disabled, some of them escaped during the war etc and a lot of them would not have any social support were it not for the people they know there, and it's not even necessarily about religion. I know it's the same at Churches as well, they are full of old people  and i'd imagine it is in mosques as well. I have my own issues with it but I think that unless they are deliberately exclusionary/preaching hate etc then i dont think there's all that much wrong. I also think that there's a difference between the religious side and the social side and many people just go to these things for the social side.
> 
> I think this type of stuff is the sort of stuff that "the left" for want of a better word used to be a lot better at, I know they are a lot better in places like Italy for it, chilango, Fedayn etc probably know more about that than I do!



Cheers for the heads up.

I'd have missed this interesting diversion as I don't keep much of an eye on EDL threads.

But yeah, bang on.

Churches (of whatever faith) do a lot of the stuff that a "rooted" Left would/should do.

I keep saying that the first thing the Left needs is the rebuilding of community and the ideas of solidarity, mutual aid etc. and this starts with mundane "apolitical" stuff like chatting to your neighbours over a cup of tea, street parties/communal pot luck meals/BBQs, child care/play activities etc.

Dog shit politics if you like.

Stuff that the LibDems, fash and Greens have all dabbled in with a measure of success.

Stuff that the IWCA tried.

Stuff that self-righteous lefties will dismiss.

Stuff that elsewhere, where the Left is (or at least has been) part of the w/c community they do. Autogestione innit?

Stuff that in most places in the UK is left to the church. The problem with hat not being their theism so much as that the community they build is not built around class.

There is a lot more that could and should be said I guess, but 8 a.m. On an EDL thread is probably not the time nor place.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jun 4, 2013)

I see Weatherspoons are catering to the travelling EDL support now 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-22760874


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## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2013)

chilango said:


> Cheers for the heads up.
> 
> I'd have missed this interesting diversion as I don't keep much of an eye on EDL threads.
> 
> ...


 

Yeah i mean I'll be honest, when I move to a new area I generally work out where the jewish community is and like go along to a couple of services, study sessons or other events that they're doing, i mean i might never go again after that but i like to know its there if you know what i mean. Not that I am religious or anything (although I say that, but ...) but moving to a new place can be really isolating if you dont know anyone, or even staying in the same place if all your friends have moved away or you cant get there easily. Last year when I moved to Hemel only knowing my housemate and her friends I ended up going a fair few times. 

if there was some kind of thing like that, only not about god/specific to a religion and not making you get on a saturday and sell fucking papers in the rain to disinterested shoppers but that did loads of social activities, provided meals, childcare, etc, and the odd educational thing about class struggle, a film or whatever then it could be really good. I think those Marxist study groups that the SP started in some areas were a really good idea, as long as they weren't used just to recruit people to something.

I know its not a panacea but its got to be better than what we've got at the moment.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2013)

Dotty says next I'll be getting a dog on a string ffs


----------



## cesare (Jun 4, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Dotty says next I'll be getting a dog on a string ffs


We can help you choose which look


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2013)

cesare said:


> We can help you choose which look


 
may i suggest anarcho dandy style?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2013)

http://thechapmagazine.co.uk/2012/12/the-grand-anarcho-dandyist-ball-in-pictures/


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

sihhi said:


> If we defend the right of preachers to stay we're in danger of assisting homophobia etc.


 

No, we're defending freedom of speech. Just because you don't like what they say doesn't mean they should be suppressed. You're letting them speak so they can be exposed as homophobic / racist /whatever. And maybe, just maybe, by open debate, they'll be persuaded of the wrongness of their views.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 4, 2013)




----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> No, we're defending freedom of speech. Just because you don't like what they say doesn't mean they should be suppressed. You're letting them speak so they can be exposed as homophobic / racist /whatever. And maybe, just maybe, by open debate, they'll be persuaded of the wrongness of their views.


 

What about if people have to listen to that shit? 

what would you do if a bunch of people were saying "quartz is a cunt and a terrorist and so are all his family and he should get out of the country" in a public place?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 4, 2013)

step, there is something quite lovely about a girl dressed like that. i heart this girl though!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> No, we're defending freedom of speech. Just because you don't like what they say doesn't mean they should be suppressed. You're letting them speak so they can be exposed as homophobic / racist /whatever. And maybe, just maybe, by open debate, they'll be persuaded of the wrongness of their views.



There's a difference between defending freedom of speech and supporting what's being said, you know?


----------



## killer b (Jun 4, 2013)

is this now a riot fwoar thread?


----------



## treelover (Jun 4, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> step, there is something quite lovely about a girl dressed like that. i heart this girl though!


 
I bet she hates that picture now, served her time and probably has nothing to do with radical politics now.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 4, 2013)

treelover said:


> I bet she hates that picture now, served her time and probably has nothing to do with radical politics now.


 
Don't judge others by your own standards.


----------



## belboid (Jun 4, 2013)

treelover said:


> I bet she hates that picture now, served her time and probably has nothing to do with radical politics now.


same as you, you mean.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> There's a difference between defending freedom of speech and supporting what's being said, you know?


 
Quite true, and it's a nuance many don't get. But look at it this way: before you can decide to support something or not, first you have to hear of it.



frogwoman said:


> What about if people have to listen to that shit?


 
Who's forcing you to listen?



> what would you do if a bunch of people were saying "quartz is a cunt and a terrorist and so are all his family and he should get out of the country" in a public place?


 
That being factually false, legal action would swiftly follow. You are responsible for your speech. q.v. a certain recent case of someone being accused of being a paedophile. But if something is true, you should have the right to say it, no matter how distasteful others find it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2013)

The39thStep said:


>


 

annoyingly enough Docs are now largely produced in china and stitched in england. Which means that the factory seconds shop has a lot less in the way of bargains. Time was I picked up sixteen hole cherry red dm's for the princely sum of 12 pounds. Blistered my feet breaking them in. Halcyon days


----------



## killer b (Jun 4, 2013)

they aren't even stitched in england anymore, other than the 'made in england' range.

i was under the impression solovair were doing them though. do they have a seconds shop? they're essentially the same as docs anyway.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2013)

internets throws up no seconds shop for solovair. Google has spoken.


----------



## killer b (Jun 4, 2013)

try NPS shoes sorry.


----------



## treelover (Jun 4, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Don't judge others by your own standards.


 
if you google it I think you will find its the case


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> That being factually false, legal action would swiftly follow. You are responsible for your speech. q.v. a certain recent case of someone being accused of being a paedophile. But if something is true, you should have the right to say it, no matter how distasteful others find it.


 

but what the edl say is not true.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Quite true, and it's a nuance many don't get. But look at it this way: before you can decide to support something or not, first you have to hear of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
How are you deciding what is 'true'? Quartz? On what grounds?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2013)

treelover said:


> if you google it I think you will find its the case


 
you obviously have done so can prove your point for once
link please


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> but what the edl say is not true.


 

Then you sue them if it's personally defamatory or present the true facts if they're lying about them. You do not shout them down and let their lies and bigotry fester.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Then you sue them if it's personally defamatory or present the true facts if they're lying about them. You do not shout them down and let their lies and bigotry fester.


 
How are you judging which opinions and political positions are 'true' quartz?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Then you sue them if it's personally defamatory or present the true facts if they're lying about them. You do not shout them down and let their lies and bigotry fester.


Historically, shouting the fascists down, as well as beating them down, would have been a rather smart option, and has always been proven to be so


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 4, 2013)

The39thStep said:


>


 
I wouldn't fancy having to relace those boots outside the police station after a night in the cells. Velcro tab trainers FTW.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> Historically, shouting the fascists down, as well as beating them down, would have been a rather smart option, and has always been proven to be so


 

As would have shouting and beating down the communists in Russia. 

That doesn't make it right.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> As would have shouting and beating down the communists in Russia.
> 
> That doesn't make it right.


 
How are you judging which opinions and political positions are 'true' quartz?


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2013)

What's all this nonsense about "free speech"?

Doesn't exist. Never has. Why are we getting hung up on it?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2013)

chilango said:


> What's all this nonsense about "free speech"?
> 
> Doesn't exist. Never has. Why are we getting hung up on it?


 
No one is, only the fool quartz - the one who refuses to answer questions that put his naive nonsense in doubt.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> That doesn't make it right.


It makes it extremely necessary, which is rather more important


----------



## Tom A (Jun 4, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Are the BNP holding stalls unopposed then? Foodbank stuff is worrying IMO - learning from the Golden Dawn? And I guess it means any opposition has to be a bit more sophisticated than usual.


Not surprising the BNP would try setting up food banks, inspiration from Golden Dawn is very likely. Also you have that far-right organisation in France who donates food to the homeless, but delibrately puts pork into it to keep the Muslims away. This needs to be challenged, and the left could do well to re-learn a think or two about the concept of mutual aid.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2013)

one of the squats in Cardiff does a peoples kitchen which homeless and others go to afaik
others do Bwyd nid Bombiau / Food not Bombs on the streets too


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> It makes it extremely necessary, which is rather more important


 

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

- M. Niemoller


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2013)

Because you talk shite.


----------



## killer b (Jun 4, 2013)

where's the 'wanker' smiley?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> First they came for the communists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
> 
> Then they came for the socialists,
> ...


 

First they came for the far-right


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2013)

and then they came for the fash but that was ok cos freedom of speech


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2013)

Voltaire quote in t-minus four hours


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> I wouldn't fancy having to relace those boots outside the police station after a night in the cells. Velcro tab trainers FTW.


 

generally when re-lacing my shoes having had a childs portion of microwave lasagne and been issued with a fine the last thing on my mind has been the trickiness of threading my laces. Normally I just ring mum and cry. And she calls me a cunt for getting in that situation.

army mums. Bringing you harsh words since forever


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Voltaire quote in t-minus four hours


 

Not biting. 

Look at it this way: why should someone listen to you if you're not prepared to listen to them?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Not biting.
> 
> Look at it this way: why should someone listen to you if you're not prepared to listen to them?


 
Indeed, for the 5th time then - how are you judging which opinions and political positions are 'true' quartz?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Not biting.
> 
> Look at it this way: why should someone listen to you if you're not prepared to listen to them?


 
because by their nature their views are not inclusive and seek to oppress others


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2013)

ddraig said:


> because by their nature their views are not inclusive and seek to oppress others


 

but we must give voice to those who will silence us or else we are just as bad as them. Vote clegg


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

ddraig said:


> because by their nature their views are not inclusive and seek to oppress others


 

You have, of course, noted the paradox.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> You have, of course, noted the paradox.


 
no, please enlighten me


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz, you can run rings around me when it comes to mathematics but you just don't get politics. I'm not even trying to cunt you off here,I'd rather you took an objective look and so on. You can't be an idiot, I just think you look at the sphere as a stated game where players do as they state. Its not you know. Motivations, realpolitik, trad values. The field of politics is not a bloody sum.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> First they came for the communists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
> 
> Then they came for the socialists,
> ...



First they came for the edl, and I did not speak out, because they're cunts.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> The field of politics is not a bloody sum.


 

I'm well aware of that. How many threads have we had where we've both passed comment on the perfidy of politicians? How many times have I stated that they're mostly after power? And then there's "Politics is the art of the possible." But I believe in the freedom of speech. Not free speech for some. Not free speech just for those who think like me. I have no truck with racism etc but I'd rather these bigots were out in the open where we can know that they're bigots. I'd rather these bigots were out in the open so they can be shown up by their own words like Nick Griffin on Question Time, and lampooned on Spitting Image, HIGNIFY, etc. Extremist Muslim / Protestant / Catholic / Hindu / whatever clerics? Bring them on: let's hear what they preach.  The more people who know how vile they are the better. Biblical literalists? Sure, let's take a look at the Books of Leviticus and Numbers and - for example - see what they say about slavery and the role of women. And so on. But if we shut them away and ignore them and their lies, they'll just fester and grow, purely because we don't answer and expose them. It's the hard road, but it's the right road.



ddraig said:


> no, please enlighten me


 

You're excluding them for not being inclusive, but that then means that you're not being inclusive and should therefore be excluded yourself.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> I'm well aware of that. How many threads have we had where we've both passed comment on the perfidy of politicians? How many times have I stated that they're mostly after power? And then there's "Politics is the art of the possible." But I believe in the freedom of speech. Not free speech for some. Not free speech just for those who think like me. I have no truck with racism etc but I'd rather these bigots were out in the open where we can know that they're bigots. I'd rather these bigots were out in the open so they can be shown up by their own words like Nick Griffin on Question Time, and lampooned on Spitting Image, HIGNIFY, etc. Extremist Muslim / Protestant / Catholic / Hindu / whatever clerics? Bring them on: let's hear what they preach. The more people who know how vile they are the better. Biblical literalists? Sure, let's take a look at the Books of Leviticus and Numbers and - for example - see what they say about slavery and the role of women. And so on. But if we shut them away and ignore them and their lies, they'll just fester and grow, purely because we don't answer and expose them. It's the hard road, but it's the right road.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
How are you deciding what is 'true'? Quartz? On what grounds?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> First they came for the communists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
> 
> Then they came for the socialists,
> ...


oh ffs! Yes, and 'They', then AND now, *are* the fash! 
Different rules apply when dealing with them.
No nice, civilised respectful discourse with them - that's simply not how they operate
.
That is the overwhelming lesson of history


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Not biting.
> 
> Look at it this way: why should someone listen to you if you're not prepared to listen to them?


Aarghh!  x1000000
I don't _care_ if the EDL and the wankers who follow them (or fellow-travel) 'listen' to me, and I am certainly  NEVER going to 'listen' to them, and the hateful bile they spew. They're The Enemy. Pure n simple.
All I want is that they are stopped.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 4, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> oh ffs! Yes, and 'They', then AND now, *are* the fash!


 
And 'They' were the Communists in the Soviet Union.
And 'They' were the Communists in China.
And 'They' were the Peronists in Argentina.
And 'They' were the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
And 'They' were ZANU in Zimbabwe.
Etc.


----------



## Tom A (Jun 4, 2013)

“Only one thing could have broken our movement – if our enemies had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed the nucleus of our movement with extreme brutality.”
(Adolf Hitler, 1933)

“If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work.”
(J Goebbels, 1934)


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 4, 2013)

Those who fail to shout down fascists
Will later be forced to shoot them down


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2013)

Quartz said:


> <snip>
> 
> You're excluding them for not being inclusive, but that then means that you're not being inclusive and should therefore be excluded yourself.


 
what am i excluding them from? do you think people who actively seek to oppress those that have a different skin colour and 'religion' to them are inclusive?
and what should i be excluded from for not including those that seek to oppress?
if they didn't actively seek to oppress and included all then there wouldn't be an issue
do you see yet?

tried to have this 'debate' with a nazi after he muttered something about ideology on saturday before a copper told me to shut up and stop being silly


----------



## Nice one (Jun 4, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Nice one
> the place ive been talking about and i was a regular at throughout my teens organises trips to israel for teenagers, there are israeli flags on a billboard by the door etc. when the latest israeli attack happened in december they sent an email to all members telling them of what the israeli ambassor had said (although the rabbi then put an opposing view in his email and then sent another one out judging by some of the replies that he was probably anticipating getting). one of the things that made me stop going for a long time was the fact that in one children's service I went to, I saw them teach kids of pre school age about how great israel is as a country, and make them do puzzles about it in the service, i was pretty disgusted when i saw that and didnt go for ages and ages after that. ive heard people in the congregation say dodgy things, mostly zionism/israel related, but also the odd dodgy thing about gays, although i think they support gay marriage quite openly. its not a requirement of joining to be a zionist or anything but i think people with even my views would be in a bit of a minority (although increasingly not that much of one)
> 
> that doesnt mean i would be happy about say the edl or some conspiraloons group marching around there unopposed though, in fact i'd be fucking livid about it, especially if people didnt want to oppose the march and the reason given was "zionists palestine blah blah blah" i would be bitching about on here for fucking weeks
> ...


 
i think opposing the edl/bnp whenever they appear is a given. In fact the point is to oppose the edl/bnp regardless of who they target. Of course mosques are social and cultural centres, they are also political centres - that is institutions that underpin and express a particular form of localised power. The east london mosque (another building anarchists and radicals were ask to defend when edl came to town) for example was/is at the forefront of subduing the secular bengali identity in tower hamlets.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-protest/bangladeshi_3715.jsp
Of course being "white english folk" this doesn't touch us and we are not party to it. The only time we have any tangible contact is when a common enemy forces us together. This doesn't mean however we should go into these things uncritically. I don't know if slaf has any lgbt members or what their views would be knowing the kind of literature lewisham islamic centre is putting out, but you can certainly support the local muslim community without supporting it's institutions.

I think i have only seen peter tatchell (god bless him) actually address the issue of far right reactionary ideas being both present within the bnp/edl and islamist groups during these protests. Whitechapel Anarchist Group addressed the same issue when edl were to protest outside an islamic conference some years back.
http://whitechapelanarchistgroup.wo...hitechapel-united-against-division-june-20th/


----------



## FNG (Jun 4, 2013)

more from whitechapel



also well worth reading http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress...-the-anti-edl-counter-demo-at-downing-street/


----------



## andysays (Jun 4, 2013)

cesare said:


> We can help you choose which look


----------



## andysays (Jun 4, 2013)

treelover said:


> I bet she hates that picture now, served her time and probably has nothing to do with radical politics now.


 
Know her, do you? If not, that's a fucking stupid and presumptuous thing to say.

I "know" the person in this equally iconic picture from another online forum






She's a grandmother now, and although she hasn't had a mounted copper swing a baton at her head recently, she's still just as radical now as she was then.

When her grandkids are old enough to understand what their gran did, they'll be proud of her, as will the grandkids of the woman in the Poll Tax Riot picture, if she ever has any


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 4, 2013)

FNG said:


> more from whitechapel




The rear end of a pantomime horse


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 4, 2013)

treelover said:


> I bet she hates that picture now, served her time and probably has nothing to do with radical politics now.


 
She didn't serve any time.


----------



## Corax (Jun 4, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> She didn't serve any time.


----------



## andysays (Jun 4, 2013)

There's a huge difference between us opposing the EDL etc directly, either by arguing against them, shouting them down or physically resisting them, on the one hand, and expecting the state to restrict their freedom of speech. The latter is equally (even more) likely to be turned back on us.

There's absolutely no contradiction between opposing any and all state-imposed restrictions on freedom of speech and attempting in whatever ways necessary to prevent the EDL from spreading their poison.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 4, 2013)

Tom A said:


> “Only one thing could have broken our movement – if our enemies had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed the nucleus of our movement with extreme brutality.”
> (Adolf Hitler, 1933)
> 
> “If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work.”
> (J Goebbels, 1934)


 
Thing is Tom is that the most successful and violent anti fascism against the Nazis came from the KPD but they also politically fought them in the communities where they tried to recruit.Same as the CP did here.

Despite the rhetoric of physical force anti fascism the EDL have never been removed from the streets. They have never been smashed.
When it came to dealing with a period in which the BNP became the most successful fascist party in this country it was the failure of anti fascism to get its hands dirty politically which meant the BNP recruited and  polled so well in some working class areas.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 4, 2013)

.


----------



## Fedayn (Jun 4, 2013)

andysays said:


> Know her, do you? If not, that's a fucking stupid and presumptuous thing to say.
> 
> I "know" the person in this equally iconic picture from another online forum
> 
> ...


 
I knew her in real life when she lived up here in Glasgow. A fine comrade.


----------



## andysays (Jun 4, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> I knew her in real life when she lived up here in Glasgow. A fine comrade.


 
Never met her in person, but as you say, a fine comrade.

Still radical, still active


----------



## Sue (Jun 4, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> He's clearly very naive to think that he will come out of this unscathed (the only Lib Dem I know reckons he'll soon be an independent and I'm inclined to believe it) but the obvious squirming and changing of the story suggests to me that he's either sympathetic or is attempting to appeal to those who are. Given that he's a Lib Dem and they generally don't really believe in anything beyond advancing their own careers I'm inclined to think that he did this for political capital. Which means he's also really fucking stupid.



He's an arse and absolutely hated the IWCA. Search for him and Lee Cole on the Oxford Mail website.  On my phone and can't access it  Funny.


----------



## treelover (Jun 4, 2013)

andysays said:


> Know her, do you? If not, that's a fucking stupid and presumptuous thing to say.
> 
> *I "know" the person in this equally iconic picture* from another online forum
> 
> ...


 

so do I, quite well...


----------



## treelover (Jun 4, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> She didn't serve any time.


 

Ok, tell us what you know?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2013)

come on, you made the accusation about her


----------



## treelover (Jun 5, 2013)

bollocks, it was supposition, and plenty of young radicals give up on it all, why is that controversial otherwise the left would be massive and it isn't.

Oh and only on this cesspit of a thread(which has been mostly keyboard warriors) would my post be controversial, shooting the messenger , imo


----------



## ddraig (Jun 5, 2013)

supposition? worra load of bollox
what message are you bringing btw?, must've missed it


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 5, 2013)

Christ. Been sifting through some numbnuttery - riddled with stuff as  as this, from the comments section of an EDL News piece


_kris bothwell 2013-06-02 13:58_
_i suggest you take this article about me of your website you are suggesting that i have nazi fantasys by posting 88/14w which is complete bullshit mr hastings you should get your facts right 88/14w refers to 22 march 1988 which is the day prince william was born_


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> First they came for the communists,
> and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
> 
> Then they came for the socialists,
> ...


 
He actually posted this. He really did.

And first they came for the Nazis. And I did not speak out because I was not a Nazi? A slight simplification but that's basically what you're saying.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> But if we shut them away and ignore them and their lies, they'll just fester and grow, purely because we don't answer and expose them. It's the hard road, but it's the right road.


But they ARE out there 'in the open', usually with a massive police presence to guard them and uphold their rights (the cop show on Whitehall last Saturday was like Thatch's funeral all over again); and that is where we, in turn, oppose them. By any and all means necessary, including physical force.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 5, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> How are you deciding what is 'true'? Quartz? On what grounds?


christ, there's STILL no answer to this one? 
Enlighten us all pleaee, quartz


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2013)

keyboard warriors - Internet Police - Fash

/end thread


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 5, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> keyboard warriors - Internet Police - Fash
> 
> /end thread


 
How's the allotment Bob?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> And 'They' were the Communists in the Soviet Union.
> And 'They' were the Communists in China.
> And 'They' were the Peronists in Argentina.
> And 'They' were the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
> ...


Christ, why do you liberals _always_ bring this one out?
First, if you think Peron & co committed genocide, you're dead wrong. In fact, oppressive as they were, they were far preferable to the _Junta_, and did a huge amount for the working classes, as you would expect a 'Workers Party' president to do, and broke the power of the oligarcicos. (PS: you picked the wrong country here, I know it backwards).
Second, none of the other regimes, vile as they were, compare like-for-like with the third reich, they need to be analysed differently. 'They' were not all the same. Equally, the far left in the Uk simply isn't comparable to the EDL and BNP.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 5, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> He actually posted this. He really did.
> 
> And first they came for the Nazis. And I did not speak out because I was not a Nazi? A slight simplification but that's basically what you're saying.


 
Or, "At first they came for the gays. And I did not speak up for the gays, because I was not gay." Or, "At first they came for the little girls. And I did not speak up for the little girls because I was not a little girl."

It is really hard to allow people to speak evil. Really hard. Really, really hard. But it also allows us to know them for the idiots and monsters they are. Because once they've said it, we can call them on it.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> It is really hard to allow people to speak evil. Really hard. Really, really hard. But it also allows us to know them for the idiots and monsters they are. Because once they've said it, we can call them on it.


But that is precisely what anti-fash groups do. The OB uphold - to the death - their right to march and spout their bile - we who oppose, then oppose, call them on it, challenge them.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Or, "At first they came for the gays. And I did not speak up for the gays, because I was not gay." Or, "At first they came for the little girls. And I did not speak up for the little girls because I was not a little girl."
> 
> It is really hard to allow people to speak evil. Really hard. Really, really hard. But it also allows us to know them for the idiots and monsters they are. Because once they've said it, we can call them on it.


 
Jesus Christ. You're an utter fucking plonker. When do we decide they do need silencing? When they're provoking pogroms against Muslims? Before that? At what stage do you draw the line.

Actually, don't bother answering that - you've already taken the naive liberal stupidity levels on thread well beyond the levels recommended by EU health and safety guidelines so many more posts from you and we could have a nasty accident on our hands.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

And that's aside from the fucking horendous and insulting implication made by Quartz that silencing the fash is in any way equivalent to, or even comparable to, silencing gays and little girls. This is where this wet liberal nonsense leads you to.

I suggest Quartz reads this excellent series of posts by Limerick Red over on the Laurie Penny thread.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 5, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> But that is precisely what anti-fash groups do. The OB uphold - to the death - their right to march and spout their bile - we who oppose, then oppose, call them on it, challenge them.


 
this this THIS


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Or, "At first they came for the gays. And I did not speak up for the gays, because I was not gay." Or, "At first they came for the little girls. And I did not speak up for the little girls because I was not a little girl."
> 
> It is really hard to allow people to speak evil. Really hard. Really, really hard. But it also allows us to know them for the idiots and monsters they are. Because once they've said it, we can call them on it.


the voice of the liberal twat ^^


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2013)

J Ed said:


> .


a fine contribution


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> the voice of the liberal twat ^^


 
Makes the 'I would die for your right to say it' part of their favourite quote quite apt though. Anyone who takes 'free speech' for the far right as an absolute and unquestionable principle risks doing exactly that.


----------



## treelover (Jun 5, 2013)

> *The Left should mobilise against religious extremism as well as the far right *
> 
> Anti-fascists who happily march against the BNP or EDL rarely show that level of commitment against Anjem Choudhary’s group. Why?
> 
> http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...se-against-religious-extremism-well-far-right




Its by Sunny Hundal, not too popular on here


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 5, 2013)

Because they're irrelevent.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 5, 2013)

treelover said:


> Its by Sunny Hundal, not too popular on here


 

I don't agree with everything (or most things) he has to say but he is spot on here


----------



## J Ed (Jun 5, 2013)

Some Sheffield Labour Student people are saying that the police are going to cordon off a walkway for the EDL to come and lay a wreath on Saturday at their Sheffield national demo. With Labour councillors' blessing apparently.


----------



## treelover (Jun 5, 2013)

The LP councillors on the local radio were adamant they would 'stop the EDL' maybe others.


----------



## chilango (Jun 5, 2013)

What I don't get about liberals espousing this freedom of speech stuff is how can you defend a "right" that doesn't actually exist?

You'd have to be living in one hell of a bubble to actually believe that any of us have "freedom of speech" in any meaningful sense.


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Some Sheffield Labour Student people are saying that the police are going to cordon off a walkway for the EDL to come and lay a wreath on Saturday at their Sheffield national demo. With Labour councillors' blessing apparently.


we could stop them last saturday largely because we had already got an agreement to be at the war memorial (for the bedroom tax demo). Frankly there was never any chance they would let us block the EDL two weeks running. Labour will be all for it (with maybe one or two token councillors voicing opposition).  So far the only Labour voice I've heard has been worrying about his shop.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 5, 2013)

Leaving this here. If from experience you think you may not like it, you know what not to do.

http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/muslamics-continue-trechary-ways/


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

belboid said:


> we could stop them last saturday largely because we had already got an agreement to be at the war memorial (for the bedroom tax demo). Frankly there was never any chance they would let us block the EDL two weeks running. Labour will be all for it (with maybe one or two token councillors voicing opposition). So far the only Labour voice I've heard has been worrying about his shop.


 
Sandwich shop?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 5, 2013)

A mosque has been attacked in North London.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leaving this here. If from experience you think you may not like it, you know what not to do.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/muslamics-continue-trechary-ways/


 
Bit desperate.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> A mosque has been attacked in North London.


 
Where've you got that from mate?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 5, 2013)

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...ebomb-attack-is-woolwich-revenge-8645356.html


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Sandwich shop?


that's the beggar


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leaving this here. If from experience you think you may not like it, you know what not to do.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/muslamics-continue-trechary-ways/


why did you bother?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

belboid said:


> that's the beggar


 
his bacon rolls are pretty good tbf


----------



## treelover (Jun 5, 2013)

> Police were also called to the Bomber Command memorial in Green Park where graffiti demanded that the killers of drummer Rigby should be hanged. It was also defaced a week ago when the word Islam was spray painted on a wall.


 
what an idiot, this will cost the trust even more.


----------



## chilango (Jun 5, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leaving this here. If from experience you think you may not like it, you know what not to do.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/muslamics-continue-trechary-ways/



It's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leaving this here. If from experience you think you may not like it, you know what not to do.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/muslamics-continue-trechary-ways/


 
Yeah, we saw you on lib-com pretending  this rubbish was "very popular" the other day. _We saw you._


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> How's the allotment Bob?


 

Good thanks, last year was a wash out, but this year is looking good so far


----------



## J Ed (Jun 5, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Sandwich shop?


 

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local...fence-league-plans-sheffield-return-1-5734940


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> his bacon rolls are pretty good tbf


I'll bear that in mind!

btw, you heard owt about the Jinnah Restaurant (in Ecclesfield) fire actually being the result of arson?  Someone told me it had happened just after a bunch of kids had been wandering around chanting EDL, and put two and two together, but I'm not sure how wild her imagination is


----------



## pissflaps (Jun 5, 2013)

http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/news/10464807.EDL_graffiti_found_at_burned_down_Islamic_centre/


----------



## IC3D (Jun 5, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...ebomb-attack-is-woolwich-revenge-8645356.html


 
Very soft target just off the N Circ that, pretty shocking though knowing the fairly area well. Isn't one of the pubs on Colney Hatch lane a bit iffy too. Anyone? eta PM mebbe


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

belboid said:


> I'll bear that in mind!
> 
> btw, you heard owt about the Jinnah Restaurant (in Ecclesfield) fire actually being the result of arson? Someone told me it had happened just after a bunch of kids had been wandering around chanting EDL, and put two and two together, but I'm not sure how wild her imagination is


 
No, I'll have an ask around though - let you know if I find anything out.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> the voice of the liberal twat ^^


 

Is that the best you can come up with?

As I said earlier, it's a hard road, but it's the right road.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 5, 2013)

ddraig said:


> what am i excluding them from? do you think people who actively seek to oppress those that have a different skin colour and 'religion' to them are inclusive?
> and what should i be excluded from for not including those that seek to oppress?
> if they didn't actively seek to oppress and included all then there wouldn't be an issue
> do you see yet?
> ...


 
Quartz ? got an answer yet or given up with your shite argument?


----------



## Quartz (Jun 5, 2013)

I've said what I've said. If you disagree with it, you're free to do so. Good thing you have that freedom, isn't it?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> I've said what I've said. If you disagree with it, you're free to do so. Good thing you have that freedom, isn't it?


 
well done coward. pathetic


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> I've said what I've said. If you disagree with it, you're free to do so. Good thing you have that freedom, isn't it?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 5, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Good thanks, last year was a wash out, but this year is looking good so far


 
Mines picking up but I don't think I will get many plums


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Mines picking up but I don't think I will get many plums


 
gone a bit mad this year and done the whole plot, the lad is two and hlaf now, so he need less looking after when we get up there that was the other issue last year.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2013)

It's made the Daily Hate now

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-attack-counter-terror-police-called-in.html


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> As I said earlier, it's a hard road, but it's the right road.


It's not, it's really not, it's the naive, delusional, and suicidally apolitical road taken by the comfortable bourgeois liberal, who doesn't understand the very real differences between radical socialists and the fash, and what those differences mean in the real world. Also it ignores one key point; we anti-fash can't stop the fash from having a voice; we can oppose them powerfully, though


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It's made the Daily Hate now
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-attack-counter-terror-police-called-in.html


 
Comments coming in now,

some of my fave are "lol" and "deserved"


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Is that the best you can come up with?
> 
> As I said earlier, it's a hard road, but it's the right road.


It's better than anything you've come up. You're one of those 'useful idiots'.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 5, 2013)

like this cock, YOUR THE REAL FACISTSSSSSS!!!
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/509898.html?c=on#comments


> *Why I was there,*
> 
> *05.06.2013 11:09*
> Im the "Nazi" as you seem to be foaming over so much, let me explain why I was there.......This was not a EDL/WDL/Casuals event, I came alone to walk in silence and honour the memory of Lee Rigby, I saw the event posted and felt compelled to join in, at no point did i ever think there would be such opposition or vile counter protest at such an event, ask yourselves this.....IF it was an event organised by any of the organisations you feel had anything to do with it why was I there alone? IF I was there with any other motive than to take part surely I would of turnt up mob handed as you lot did, but no, I came alone, stayed silent, walked in silence even after provaction and proceded to leave as soon as it was over, through out the entire walk i was hounded as was those around me by members of Antifa, the UAF, and other idiots, once the walk had started I even asked the Old Bill if I could be removed for one reason, once the photographer realised who I was i did not want to spoil or tarnish the event through my attendence, but this wasnt possible. You creatures really showed your selves up, your nothing but intolerant people preaching tolerance, I have never seen such a rabble of misguided individuals, to even go to the extent of chasing me through Cardiff after i tried to leave in peace and chasing me through busy streets and traffic is comical, your message of tolerance and peace, and lets all get along means absoulty nothing, anyone who thinks or belives in anything other than your idiolgy and beliefs is to be attacked, YOU lot are the true Fascists, you lot are the true thugs and are more stereo typically "Nazi" than anyone I know, maybe next time I wont be so nieve and bring some more heads, but like i said i dint need to as all i was doing was partaking in a silent walk to honour a soldier killed so horrifically on the streets of London, something most people feel quite emotional about (other than you lot)
> *John Amery*


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> People who think the EDL are respectable or near respectable are just not abreast of the facts in any meaningful way. People not being abreast of the facts in any meaningful way is typical enough, it's hardly exclusive to matters of extremism.
> 
> A photo of Mo Ansar and Lennon together doesn't demonstrate much. It's pretty clear from reading MA's stuff that he thinks Lennon is a lunatic. That's because MA has a functioning cerebrum.


 

What made him say this then? 

*MoAnsar* Mohammed Ansar 
@holland_tom If slaves are treated justly, with full rights, and no oppression whatsoever... why would anyone object, Tom?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 5, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What made him say this then?
> 
> *MoAnsar*Mohammed Ansar
> @holland_tom If slaves are treated justly, with full rights, and no oppression whatsoever... why would anyone object, Tom?


 

I've heard this one before from his mate Hamza Tzortzis, they argue for it on the same basis as drug decriminalisation - it's happening anyway so we might as well regulate it for harm reduction purposes. Of course, they don't think that about drugs...


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 5, 2013)

J Ed said:


> I've heard this one before from his mate Hamza Tzortzis, they argue for it on the same basis as drug decriminalisation - it's happening anyway so we might as well regulate it for harm reduction purposes. Of course, they don't think that about drugs...


 
I remember keep seeing him use the phrase "the alleged 9/11 perpetrators" as if to say it wasn't Mohammed Atta and his gang of lunatics who carried it out. Called it out for it once and he deleted the tweet and bloked me. Proper suspect is cuddly Mo.


----------



## nutnut (Jun 5, 2013)

Latest observations (appologise for erratic postings - am using libraries internet) : 'Hope for Heroes' stickers appearing in local buses and sporadic EDL graffiti appearing. Romford is a traditional rascist/fash area (NF - BNP etc). Not trying to sound 'hard' but believe my way forward in this situation is working solo (identifying any fash pubs) and researching guerrila tactics.


----------



## Athos (Jun 5, 2013)

nutnut said:
			
		

> Latest observations (appologise for erratic postings - am using libraries internet) : 'Hope for Heroes' stickers appearing in local buses and sporadic EDL graffiti appearing. Romford is a traditional rascist/fash area (NF - BNP etc). Not trying to sound 'hard' but believe my way forward in this situation is working solo (identifying any fash pubs) and researching guerrila tactics.



Well, the library is certainly a good place for research. Careful now.


----------



## treelover (Jun 5, 2013)

> 'Hope for Heroes' stickers appearing in local buses


 

hang on, 'help for heroes' has nothing to do with fascists, its a charity, etc, though they are trying to co-opt it, but yes, be alert especially after the suspected firebombing

update, is it 'hope' that's on the stickers?, stirring it by the look of things


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 5, 2013)

ddraig said:


> like this cock, YOUR THE REAL FACISTSSSSSS!!!
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/509898.html?c=on#comments


The fact the guy calls himself 'John Amery' says everything to me


----------



## cesare (Jun 5, 2013)

treelover said:


> hang on, 'help for heroes' has nothing to do with fascists, its a charity, etc, though they are trying to co-opt it, but yes, be alert especially after the suspected firebombing
> 
> update, is it 'hope' that's on the stickers?, stirring it by the look of things


Hope For Heroes is a US huntin fishin shootin organisation for ex-services


----------



## ddraig (Jun 5, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> The fact the guy calls himself 'John Amery' says everything to me


 
that and the swastika flags
oh and the tattoos
etc


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 5, 2013)

ddraig said:


> that and the swastika flags
> oh and the tattoos
> etc


yep.
Amazing how they love to play the victim card


----------



## FNG (Jun 5, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> The rear end of a pantomime horse


 

 Was there anything he was saying that you take issue with? I'm only asking because i tend to find your analysis sound. If its just a personal thing then fair enough.I don't know either of you well enough to judge.


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2013)

The bar that accommodated the EDL before their stroll in Sheffield last  week are refusing to allow them to meet there again.

http://forgetoday.com/news/walkabout-bar-refuses-to-accomodate-edl/


----------



## Corax (Jun 5, 2013)

Tom A said:


> “Only one thing could have broken our movement – if our enemies had understood its principle and from the first day had smashed the nucleus of our movement with extreme brutality.”
> (Adolf Hitler, 1933)
> 
> “If the enemy had known how weak we were, it would probably have reduced us to jelly. It would have crushed in blood the very beginning of our work.”
> (J Goebbels, 1934)


 
Loving those quotes.  Nice one.  *thumbs*

Are they from memory, or from a particular place?  I only ask because my memory's shit for things like that, and it would be handy to bookmark them for future reference.


----------



## jakethesnake (Jun 5, 2013)

belboid said:


> The bar that accommodated the EDL before their stroll in Sheffield last week are refusing to allow them to meet there again.
> 
> http://forgetoday.com/news/walkabout-bar-refuses-to-accomodate-edl/


 
Wetherspoons need to make a statement too imo ...


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 5, 2013)

ddraig said:


> like this cock, YOUR THE REAL FACISTSSSSSS!!!
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/509898.html?c=on#comments


 

He's a homo if I ever saw one......


----------



## ddraig (Jun 5, 2013)

relevance?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> He's a homo if I ever saw one......


 
i don't think you can call a man a homo simply because he's in uniform.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 5, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Latest observations (appologise for erratic postings - am using libraries internet) : 'Hope for Heroes' stickers appearing in local buses and sporadic EDL graffiti appearing. Romford is a traditional rascist/fash area (NF - BNP etc). Not trying to sound 'hard' but believe my way forward in this situation is working solo (identifying any fash pubs) and researching guerrila tactics.


 
I heard there's a pub in Epsom they used to like hanging out in


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 5, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Latest observations (appologise for erratic postings - am using libraries internet) : 'Hope for Heroes' stickers appearing in local buses and sporadic EDL graffiti appearing. Romford is a traditional rascist/fash area (NF - BNP etc). Not trying to sound 'hard' but believe my way forward in this situation is working solo (identifying any fash pubs) and researching guerrila tactics.


 
If you're thinking along those lines (and I'd personally advise against it - the solo guerilla part, not the intelligence gathering which is always worthwhile - but it's your call) my advice would be to _not _post about it on the internet.

Stay safe.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Latest observations (appologise for erratic postings - am using libraries internet) : 'Hope for Heroes' stickers appearing in local buses and sporadic EDL graffiti appearing. Romford is a traditional rascist/fash area (NF - BNP etc). Not trying to sound 'hard' but believe my way forward in this situation is working solo (identifying any fash pubs) and researching guerrila tactics.


 
guerrilla tactics traditionally involve more than one person, see eg che guevara's 'guerrilla warfare', carlos marighela's 'minimanual of the urban guerrilla' or mao tse-tung's 'on guerrilla warfare'.

http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/survival/Guevara, Che - Guerrilla Warfare.pdf
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marighella-carlos/1969/06/minimanual-urban-guerrilla/
http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/FMFRP 12-18  Mao Tse-tung on Guerrilla Warfare.pdf


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2013)

EDL on the wall.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> EDL on the wall.


 
the red arrow pointing to it should have been a clew this may not be all it appeared


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> the red arrow pointing to it should have been a clew this may not be all it appeared


 
Red Arrow fly past for the diamond coronation fuck up.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> the red arrow pointing to it should have been a clew this may not be all it appeared


 
Check the photo on the daily hate site thingy... that's where this is lifted from. with added arrow.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2013)




----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2013)

FNG said:


> Was there anything he was saying that you take issue with? I'm only asking because i tend to find your analysis sound. If its just a personal thing then fair enough.I don't know either of you well enough to judge.


 
The thing that irritates me ( and sometimes it doesn't take much) is that posturing on you tube. I don't know if you remember his May day speeches at Speakers Corner a few years ago, its all hurrah hurrah  just isn't the same as doing that hard graft in communities and actually building something.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> The thing that irritates me ( and sometimes it doesn't take much) is that posturing on you tube. I don't know if you remember his May day speeches at Speakers Corner a few years ago, its all hurrah hurrah just isn't the same as doing that hard graft in communities and actually building something.


 

How do you know he isn't doing that too? And furthermore, are you?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 6, 2013)

Lennon was due to be interviewed on Daybreak this morning - a BBC reward for extremism that the Daily Blackshirt would no doubt have given as much criticism to as they did when that "muslim" twat was smirking about the Woolwich murder on Newsnight.

The interview was pulled late last night. Reason: "Lawyers".


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> How do you know he isn't doing that too? And furthermore, are you?


 
He isn't. I try to.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2013)

What right minded EDL supporter would want to graffiti EDL when being involved in an arson attack?


----------



## cesare (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> What right minded EDL supporter would want to graffiti EDL when being involved in an arson attack?


Clumsy innit.


----------



## andysays (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> What right minded EDL supporter would want to graffiti EDL when being involved in an arson attack?


 
Hypothetical EDL supporter involved in an arson attack described as right minded?!?

Maybe, at the very least, you'd like to rephrase that one


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> Hypothetical EDL supporter involved in an arson attack described as right minded?!?
> 
> Maybe, at the very least, you'd like to rephrase that one


 
Happy with the original thanks


----------



## andysays (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Happy with the original thanks


 
Your choice, obvs. I'll respond with a question of my own:

What right-minded person would carry out an arson attack on a community centre in the first place?​ 
Arguments over right-mindedness aside, I think it's at least possible that this graffiti is genuine, and has been deliberately left to let everyone know who did this.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> Your choice, obvs. I'll respond with a question of my own:
> 
> What right-minded person would carry out an arson attack on a community centre in the first place?​
> Arguments over right-mindedness aside, I think it's at least possible that this graffiti is genuine, and has been deliberately left to let everyone know who did this.


 
History is full of arson attacks to terrorize a community.The NSM in the 60s did so with synagogues in London. Don't agree with it but can understand what they are trying to do.

The thing is though why graffiti EDL when all it will do is put them under media, state  and community suspicion? They could have graffitied something anti muslim but why put put an EDL claim on it? I don't rule out that it could be genuine but i am a little suspicious.


----------



## andysays (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> History is full of arson attacks to terrorize a community.The NSM in the 60s did so with synagogues in London. Don't agree with it but can understand what they are trying to do.
> 
> The thing is though why graffiti EDL when all it will do is put them under media, state and community suspicion? They could have graffitied something anti muslim but why put put an EDL claim on it? I don't rule out that it could be genuine but i am a little suspicious.


 
So who else do you suggest is likely to have done it?

Whether or not this is an arson attack officially authorised by the EDL, it does seem highly plausible (to me) that it has been carried out by supporters or those inspired by the EDL.


----------



## albionism (Jun 6, 2013)

The graffiti could well have been there for some time.


----------



## albionism (Jun 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> So who else do you suggest is likely to have done it?
> 
> Whether or not this is an arson attack officially authorised by the EDL, it does seem highly plausible (to me) that it has been carried out by supporters or those inspired by the EDL.


 
Aye, growing up in east London in the late 70s early 80s,
my estate was absolutely covered in swastikas
and the ubiquitous "NF" letters. None of it scrawled
on the walls by actual NF members but by 10, 11 year old kids.


----------



## Tom A (Jun 6, 2013)

Corax said:


> Loving those quotes. Nice one. *thumbs*
> 
> Are they from memory, or from a particular place? I only ask because my memory's shit for things like that, and it would be handy to bookmark them for future reference.


They came from here, after trying to put the right words into Google: http://www.socialistrevolution.org/ideas/the-fight-against-fascism/where-does-fascism-come-from/


----------



## andysays (Jun 6, 2013)

albionism said:


> The graffiti could well have been there for some time.


 
I agree that the graffiti could have been there for some time, and may have nothing to do with the arson attack.

That still leaves the question of who carried out the attack, if they weren't either supporters of or inspired by the EDL or similar...


----------



## ddraig (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> What right minded EDL supporter would want to graffiti EDL when being involved in an arson attack?


 
someone who is sooo 'worked up' and such a 'patriot' with a 'vengance' and sick 'righteous anger' about 'sorting them out' and possible 'claim to fame' that the other implications wouldn't 'figure' perhaps?


----------



## albionism (Jun 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> I agree that the graffiti could have been there for some time, and may have nothing to do with the arson attack.
> 
> That still leaves the question of who carried out the attack, if they weren't either supporters of or inspired by the EDL or similar...


 
Yeah, arsonists most probably were some kind of Fash.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 6, 2013)

albionism said:


> Aye, growing up in east London in the late 70s early 80s,
> my estate was absolutely covered in swastikas
> and the ubiquitous "NF" letters. None of it scrawled
> on the walls by actual NF members but by 10, 11 year old kids.
> View attachment 33364


 
Same where I grew up - often with the CND peace symbol in the same hand next to it.

EDL just haven't got themselves a decent logo yet. Fucking amateur fascists.


----------



## andysays (Jun 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> I agree that the graffiti could have been there for some time, and may have nothing to do with the arson attack


 
Although according to local sources...



Dogsauce said:


> Sorry - think this was me misreading the BBC article which I think meant two people had been charged for the Rigby attack. Not the best wording.
> 
> _"*the centre's leaders had told him they had seen freshly sprayed graffiti on the building* and they were concerned the fire was in reaction to the killing of a soldier in Woolwich. Two men have been charged in connection with the attack. "_


 
(taken from Al-Rahma thread)


----------



## cantsin (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> History is full of arson attacks to terrorize a community.The NSM in the 60s did so with synagogues in London. Don't agree with it but can understand what they are trying to do.
> 
> The thing is though why graffiti EDL when all it will do is put them under media, state and community suspicion? They could have graffitied something anti muslim but why put put an EDL claim on it? I don't rule out that it could be genuine but i am a little suspicious.


 

I'm guessing you're aware EDL hasn't got a formal membership structure ? If someone is up for fireboming a Mosque, and then leaving an EDl calling card, they're fucking EDL, in heart and mind. Whats your problem with that?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 6, 2013)

yeah but you cant blame all the EDL for the actions of a few, that would be like blaming all the muslim for the actions of.... oh wait.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 6, 2013)

albionism said:


> The graffiti could well have been there for some time.


 

yeah, Muswell Hills a hotbed of EDL activity / support


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2013)

cantsin said:


> yeah, Muswell Hills a hotbed of EDL activity / support


yes famous for its parades up and down fortis green, and round and round the roundabout on sunday mornings.


----------



## mod (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> What right minded EDL supporter would want to graffiti EDL when being involved in an arson attack?


 
They are not the brightest sparks are they......this has probably been posted but well worth a watch. What a bunch of planks. Fair play to the fellas for making this film though. Braver than me as its so, so obvious they are taking the piss out of the blokes being interviewed!



The fella at 2.54 ought to be their next Führer.....sorry leader. His articulate, persuasive argument has seriously got me thinking of joining them.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 6, 2013)

Which cambridge college are they from i wonder?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> So who else do you suggest is likely to have done it?
> 
> Whether or not this is an arson attack officially authorised by the EDL, it does seem highly plausible (to me) that it has been carried out by supporters or those inspired by the EDL.


 
Your first question reminds of the joke_ about the bloke who  applies for a job in the Police. At the interview he is asked by the recruiting inspector some basic preliminary questions. First one is 'The Police swear allegiance to the Queen, who is the next in line?' and the bloke says Lady Diana. Unperturbed he is asked a further question 'can you tell me who founded the Police?' The bloke says ' Is it Sting?', Inspector sighs and moves on and asks him 'What happened in 1066?' bloke says 'England won the World Cup'. Another deep sigh and a final question ' Who killed Julius Ceaser?'. Bloke is completely stunned  and says 'I need some time to think about that'_

_Inspector really wants to laugh but holds it in.So he says ' You have a think and when you find out come back and tell me'_

_Bloke walks out the Police Station and into the pub , his mate says 'How did you get on with that interview at the Police? and the bloke says ' really good mate. three questions and they put me on a murder hunt?_



I don't know who else is likely to have done it  but I suspect it is someone who has very violent racist views.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Your first question reminds of the joke_ about the bloke who applies for a job in the Police. At the interview he is asked by the recruiting inspector some basic preliminary questions. First one is 'The Police swear allegiance to the Queen, who is the next in line?' and the bloke says Lady Diana. Unperturbed he is asked a further question 'can you tell me who founded the Police?' The bloke says ' Is it Sting?', Inspector sighs and moves on and asks him 'What happened in 1066?' bloke says 'England won the World Cup'. Another deep sigh and a final question ' Who killed Julius Ceaser?'. Bloke is completely stunned and says 'I need some time to think about that'_
> 
> _Inspector really wants to laugh but holds it in.So he says ' You have a think and when you find out come back and tell me'_
> 
> _Bloke walks out the Police Station and into the pub , his mate says 'How did you get on with that interview at the Police? and the bloke says ' really good mate. three questions and they put me on a murder hunt?_


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 6, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> The thing is though why graffiti EDL when all it will do is put them under media, state  and community suspicion? They could have graffitied something anti muslim but why put put an EDL claim on it? I don't rule out that it could be genuine but i am a little suspicious.



Someone who is immature enough to firebomb a mosque perhaps hasn't the mental capabilities to think it through like you have.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 6, 2013)

cantsin said:


> yeah, Muswell Hills a hotbed of EDL activity / support



Maybe someone from elsewhere mistook Muswell for Muslim.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 6, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Someone who is immature enough to firebomb a mosque perhaps hasn't the mental capabilities to think it through like you have.


 
Immature?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 6, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Immature?



Coupled with the tagging I mean.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 6, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Coupled with the tagging I mean.


 
Right. Maybe it was Islamists, Four Lions style! A mate ended up in borstal for torching his school because the music teacher wouldn't let him play guitar left handed or something. Now that was immature!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 6, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Right. Maybe it was Islamists, Four Lions style! A mate ended up in borstal for torching his school because the music teacher wouldn't let him play guitar left handed or something. Now that was immature!



Any other adjective wouldn't have made my point make sense.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 6, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Any other adjective wouldn't have made my point make sense.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 6, 2013)

In one of his post Woolwich interviews Tommy goes a bit David Brent. "People say to me 'Tommy, you're a legend' but I say No, I'm not a legend, our brave boys fighting in etc.."


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 6, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> In one of his post Woolwich interviews Tommy goes a bit David Brent. "People say to me 'Tommy, you're a legend' but I say No, I'm not a legend, our brave boys fighting in etc.."


 
It's all for charity init.


----------



## treelover (Jun 6, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> In one of his post Woolwich interviews Tommy goes a bit David Brent. "People say to me 'Tommy, you're a legend' but I say No, I'm not a legend, our brave boys fighting in etc.."


 
There is definitely hubris appearing, before the fall...


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 6, 2013)

I thought Nick Griffin was the 'David Brent of British Fascism' (according to Owen Jones).  Is Tommy after his crown?


----------



## cesare (Jun 6, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> I thought Nick Griffin was the 'David Brent of British Fascism' (according to Owen Jones).  Is Tommy after his crown?


Wasn't that behind the challenge by Griffin last Saturday? Knowing full well that Robinson would get carted back to the nick if he crosses the OB, so Griffin more or less challenges him to do just that plus also repositions himself as the big hard man?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 6, 2013)

There was a definite feeling the BNP didn't like being upstaged by the 'zionist supporting' EDL, and made a desperate bid for attention with the Whitehall parade.  The laughable turnout probably left NG a bit sore.  Tommy is getting quite an inflated opinion of himself at the moment, calling himself 'voice of the people' after getting in a huff when Newsnight dropped an interview in preference for coverage of the April Jones verdict.  I'd be happy seeing him interviewed more on telly if only the interviewers didn't seem to have so much trouble aiming at the fish in that barrel.


----------



## albionism (Jun 7, 2013)

cantsin said:


> yeah, Muswell Hills a hotbed of EDL activity / support


 
Doesn't have to be a hotbed for one or two arse-headed individuals with a spray can to exist.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 7, 2013)

mod said:


> The fella at 2.54 ought to be their next Führer.....sorry leader. His articulate, persuasive argument has seriously got me thinking of joining them.


 

To be honest with you I think that's an actor.


----------



## albionism (Jun 7, 2013)

Nah, too good to be acting. That fuck-wit is for real.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 7, 2013)

mod said:


> They are not the brightest sparks are they......this has probably been posted but well worth a watch. What a bunch of planks. Fair play to the fellas for making this film though. Braver than me as its so, so obvious they are taking the piss out of the blokes being interviewed!
> 
> 
> 
> The fella at 2.54 ought to be their next Führer.....sorry leader. His articulate, persuasive argument has seriously got me thinking of joining them.




Posh boy is a prick as well.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 7, 2013)

Wasn't tabtv the one who posted that classist rant?


----------



## nutnut (Jun 7, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> If you're thinking along those lines (and I'd personally advise against it - the solo guerilla part, not the intelligence gathering which is always worthwhile - but it's your call) my advice would be to _not _post about it on the internet.
> 
> Stay safe.


 
Cheers, good advice. (Just checked out today's Guardian).


----------



## pissflaps (Jun 7, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> Posh boy is a prick as well.


 
why? got more stones than either of us i'd wager.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2013)

So the UAF organisers in Sheffield have gone from staunchly defending the idea of defending the cenotaph from the EDL with a counter-protest to moving the protest completely out of the way of the cenotaph and turning it into a non-confrontational party. Without explaining to anyone why.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 7, 2013)

J Ed said:


> So the UAF organisers in Sheffield have gone from staunchly defending the idea of defending the cenotaph from the EDL with a counter-protest to moving the protest completely out of the way of the cenotaph and turning it into a non-confrontational party. Without explaining to anyone why.


 
Police advice maybe? they where trying to get us to March with the fash in cardiff the other week after chats with the fuzz


----------



## belboid (Jun 7, 2013)

cos the police told them too, innit?  EDL meeting in Carver St car park, I believe, and then walking over to a sealed off war memorial


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Police advice maybe? they where trying to get us to March with the fash in cardiff the other week after chats with the fuzz


 

wtf?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 7, 2013)

J Ed said:


> wtf?


 
It was a "family March" and you are welcome to join them etc... which was as you say followed with many WTF's ddraig can confrim.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2013)

belboid said:


> cos the police told them too, innit? EDL meeting in Carver St car park, I believe, and then walking over to a sealed off war memorial


 

Volunteers have been handing out leaflets all week saying they should go to Barker's Pool


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 7, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> why? got more stones than either of us i'd wager.


 
With police close by?

It was superficially about the EDL, it could've been another situation. It was a just an easy sneer at the 'chavs' thing as far as I can see. Nothing more.

Rather than cheap shots at _those people_ I don't really understand, to me it's depressing how people can turn out, what kind of shit in life creates that (not just people being attracted to the politics of the far right, could've been people I know getting sneered at in another situation).

It's as funny as taffboy pretending to be one of them lot wot spell rong. You've tried that before as well, haven't you?


----------



## belboid (Jun 7, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Volunteers have been handing out leaflets all week saying they should go to Barker's Pool


oh well, better go there then


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> yes famous for its parades up and down fortis green, and round and round the roundabout on sunday mornings.


yep, natural yummy-mummy fash coalescing of interests, innit?
All them Union Jack pashminas


----------



## ddraig (Jun 7, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> It was a "family March" and you are welcome to join them etc... which was as you say followed with many WTF's ddraig can confrim.


 
the uaf bloke jeff hurford was over with the organisers and the police
he came over with the organiser woman saying that people were welcome to join them on their walk but wouldn't be allowed placards or banners, some of the uaf seemed to be considering it
there were obviously some grumbles and a bit of vocal opposition from anti fa and others
jeff then had a dig at the anti fa and referring to the white pride thing in swansea saying something like those dressed in black running around the side streets etc 'causing trouble'
understandably, no one wanted to march/walk with an obvious nazi and the majority of people stayed out or went to check on the mosque
some of us followed the walk on the other side of the road or behind to keep an eye on it etc to which we've been branded disrespectful and ruining the well intentioned event etc and that the nazi put his views aside and marched in silence with them

of course anti nazis are far worse for not joining than they were for walking alongside a nazi and allowing him to place a wreath at a war memorial

the nazi had to seek the protection of the police and get a lift to the station in a van for his own safety


----------



## ibilly99 (Jun 7, 2013)

mod said:


> They are not the brightest sparks are they......this has probably been posted but well worth a watch. What a bunch of planks. Fair play to the fellas for making this film though. Braver than me as its so, so obvious they are taking the piss out of the blokes being interviewed!
> 
> 
> 
> The fella at 2.54 ought to be their next Führer.....sorry leader. His articulate, persuasive argument has seriously got me thinking of joining them.




Give em enough rope etc. - good arguement for getting their 'views' heard more widely .


----------



## mod (Jun 7, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> Posh boy is a prick as well.


 
Thought he was quite funny myself. Obviously a wannbe Louis Theroux but again....credit to him for going into what are basically a bunch of (very) drunk, mob of racist and agitated football hooligans and making them look like the thick idiots they are. If that constitutes being a 'Prick'...long live The Pricks!


----------



## pissflaps (Jun 7, 2013)

it's been pointed out that he's a cunt because a) he's posh b) he's hiding behind a police cordon and b) he's mocking poor people.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 7, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> it's been pointed out that he's a cunt because a) he's posh b) he's hiding behind a police cordon and b) he's mocking poor people.



You didn't have to hide behind someone either.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh well most people are posh can't really do anything about it.


----------



## pissflaps (Jun 7, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> You didn't have to hide behind someone either.


 
i am not entirely sure i know what you mean by that.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 7, 2013)

It's a lightweight, jokey thing but as that I don't see the problem. Didn't notice him particularly taking the piss out of poor people,, unless you think the irrelevant and tiny EDL are representative of the majority of normal people - in which case the problem's more yours tbh.


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 7, 2013)

The EDL are a bit like a football supporters club without a team who hate another football club who are not even a football team but are mostly just people living their lives


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> There was a definite feeling the BNP didn't like being upstaged by the 'zionist supporting' EDL, and made a desperate bid for attention with the Whitehall parade. The laughable turnout probably left NG a bit sore. Tommy is getting quite an inflated opinion of himself at the moment, calling himself 'voice of the people' after getting in a huff when Newsnight dropped an interview in preference for coverage of the April Jones verdict. I'd be happy seeing him interviewed more on telly if only the interviewers didn't seem to have so much trouble aiming at the fish in that barrel.


They have a public duty to be 'balanced' donchaknow...


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 7, 2013)

Corax said:


> They have a public duty to be 'balanced' donchaknow...


 
That's one of the shittest trends in modern journalism, isn't it? The necessity in some cases to make sure you interview someone who is plain wrong to balance someone who plainly isn't, even in non-subjective areas like science. This is how stuff like Delingpole and Toby Young happen. Twats.


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> That's one of the shittest trends in modern journalism, isn't it? The necessity in some cases to make sure you interview someone who is plain wrong to balance someone who plainly isn't, even in non-subjective areas like science. This is how stuff like Delingpole and Toby Young happen. Twats.


 
It's more the BBC than others IMO, motivated by their perceived 'public duty'. I commented on it in the Icke thread:


Corax said:


> This is exactly what the BBC do with various issues - climate change being on obvious example - they interpret their public duty to not be biased as a duty to "give both sides of the story" even when the weight of the opposing views is as balanced as Jupiter vs a pea. It leaves people confused, and thinking that 'the other side' is just as valid when it reality it may be an extreme minority opinion and completely refuted by 99% of the expert community involved.


Full disclosure - IIRC correctly Goldacre has written on the subject and I've probably picked up on it because of him.  He's damn right though.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 7, 2013)

YouSir said:


> unless you think the irrelevant and tiny EDL are representative of the majority of normal people


 
Not at all.

I was looking at the responses to that video, which are similar to what has appeared elsewhere and has been challenged on here before. I don't see how inarticulacy necessarily equates to a lack of intelligence, reactionary views or racism either, whether through inebriation or some other cause. Or a lack of education, seemingly at a basic level. Nor should that be a barrier to inclusion and meaningful participation in progressive politics.

For every pretend hooligan posting near-unintelligible racist rants on FB, there are more people elsewhere who can't fill their benefit forms in and need a little help. Starting blogs parodying EDL fools for example, focusing on those aspects can be counterproductive to 'normal' people and alienate those they know like the above. There's a fair few at the very bottom, so to speak, and they need to be a part of any progressive change too, actively shaping things with those who went to university.


----------



## jakethesnake (Jun 7, 2013)

Meanwhile in Devon...
The English Defence League's planned "vigil" in Exeter on Saturday proved to be quieter than expected. Members of the organisation had arranged to meet at at the Cenotaph on Denmark Road at 1pm to lay flowers in memory of murdered soldier Lee Rigby. But not one member of the organisation attended.

 http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/EDL-silent-vigil/story-19202144-detail/story.html#ixzz2VZ3byeAD


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2013)

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/06/06/oreilly-mainstreams-leader-of-violent-british-a/194380


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2013)

> World War Two veteran Ken Riley, 88, from Grimesthorpe, fought in Normandy and was shelled in Belgium. He is a staunch trade unionist and anti-fascism campaigner – and plans to attend today’s Barker’s Pool demonstrations in his blazer, beret and war medals.
> He said: “All those years ago we went to war to defeat fascism and today it is rearing its ugly head again.
> “We have got to stop it – the radicalism on both sides – or it will be the same trouble all over again.
> “I am concerned for future generations, and I am concerned World War III will break out, starting in the Middle East.
> ...


 

Ken gets it right...


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2013)

http://forgetoday.com/edl-rally-and-counter-demo/

updates


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 8, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> Give em enough rope etc. - good arguement for getting their 'views' heard more widely .


If you allow fascists enough rope, don't complain when they hang you with it.


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2013)

The casuals arrive in their finest


----------



## Favelado (Jun 8, 2013)

Carrying a pint of beer down the street on the way to laying a wreath is perhaps the ultimate mark of respect. Fakes.


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2013)

numbers massively down with the anti's now the students have gone home


----------



## cesare (Jun 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> numbers massively down with the anti's now the students have gone home


I suggest it's more likely that numbers of anti's are down because the far right mobilisation's calmed down.


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2013)

its also because a lot of people who were there last week didn't like the 'heavy atmosphere', this is what people are posting here.

btw, are you here, there are many many EDL, BNP, etc.


----------



## cesare (Jun 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> its also because a lot of people who were there last week didn't like the 'heavy atmosphere', this is what people are posting here.


Posting where? Are you talking about this thread?


----------



## belboid (Jun 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> numbers massively down with the anti's now the students have gone home


They haven't gone home, stop making things up. Numbers down because UAF have called their demo for the Peace Gardens, not the war memorial.


----------



## cesare (Jun 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> its also because a lot of people who were there last week didn't like the 'heavy atmosphere', this is what people are posting here.
> 
> btw, are you here, there are many many EDL, BNP, etc.


Oh, you edited that second sentence in. Where is "here"?


----------



## Corax (Jun 8, 2013)

J Ed said:


> http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/06/06/oreilly-mainstreams-leader-of-violent-british-a/194380


 
Hang on a sec... Yaxley-Lennon confidently states "Every port in this country's owned by Saudi Arabia".

Living in Southampton, the ownership I'm most familiar with is ABP - Associated British Ports - the highly profitable former BTDB (British Transport Docks Board) that fell victim to Thatcher's lust for privatisation.

Since 2006 ABP has been owned by a consortium headed up by Goldman Sachs.


> ABP now owned by ABP (Jersey) Ltd, which is made up of a consortium comprising Borealis, GIC, Goldman Sachs, and Prudential.


They've listed those partners in alphabetical order btw - GS spearheaded the purchase.

Am I missing something, and Goldman Sachs are controlled by Saudi? Or is Tommy just making stuff up?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 8, 2013)

ABP in Cardiff too


----------



## legz (Jun 8, 2013)

my daughters in Sheffield city centre right now....

EDL have been to the cenotaph, many swilling tinnies along the way, laid what looked to be like one of those £3 bouquets you get from a petrol station - accompanied by the usual chants, quite a few raised arms (she wasn't close enough to see if they were nazi-saluting or not). In her 15 year old words on one of her texts..."lots of baldness, lots of beerguts, lots of crap tattoos, lots of missing teeth. Master-race my arse"

Peace Gardens have been a medley of samba bands, Indian dancers, people handing out flyers, as is Barkers Pool now the fash have gone. My daughter likens the vibe in the pEace Gardens to when the Bollywood Oscars events were there 5 years or so ago  

Once the fash were escorted away from cenotaph, anti-EDL then assembled on city hall, effectively leaving only one exit for fash, ie to West Street (there's a weatherspoons there so would be happy with that).

Not sure on numbers, but she said EDL are outnumbered again - lots of uni students that decided not to go home yet, but also lots of locals (all creeds). My daughters buzzing about seeing certain schoolmates and teachers there - which I guess is as important to her as anything else, really


----------



## belboid (Jun 8, 2013)

It's not a bleeding cenotaph. There's no tomb, empty or otherwise. It's a war memorial. [\pedant]


----------



## Corax (Jun 8, 2013)

legz said:


> In her 15 year old words on one of her texts..."lots of baldness, lots of beerguts, lots of crap tattoos, lots of missing teeth. Master-race my arse"


 
Fucking lol 

You done a good job there by the sounds of it legz.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2013)

Going bald and being on the worst end of health resource allocation is a sign of edl-ism? Fucking hell. Better make sure that i steer well clear of any anti-fascists then.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 8, 2013)

nevermind the ill fitting suits bollocks, if that is what they have seen and reported, so what


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2013)

What is the ill-fitting suits bollocks? If you or corax can't see the relevance of those getting the worst of health resource allocation being prominent then fucking hell, what use is this form of anti-fascism? What analysis does it offer? What is the point of an anti-fascism where me and many people i know are pegged as fascists because of how we look -  and because of aspects of how we look that are not really being under our own control?  What about balding men who lost teeth fighting fascists?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 8, 2013)

yes
but what has that got to do with a 15 yrd old reporting what they have seen
who didn't even say they are anti facist

it is wrong and there was a confusing moment last week in Cardiff when a group of speedway fans with union and st george flags crossed our path, i had to quickly correct the assumption of a few of the younger ones there by pointing out they were innocent speedway fans

not all of us are big and hard enough to go talking to those wearing evf hoodies ya know

e2a and yes i do see the relevance


----------



## Corax (Jun 8, 2013)

I hit 'show'  

Lighten up FFS.  It's sunny outside.

And anyway, it clearly wasn't just "lol, bald" - the point was made in her four last words.  The girl's 15 years old - not bad going at that age IMO.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2013)

Which is why i didn't have the slightest go at her, but at you and your response - you picked out that particular bit as worthy of praise ffs.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> yes
> but what has that got to do with a 15 yrd old reporting what they have see
> who didn't even say they are anti facist
> 
> ...


 
Again, i was responding to corax's pathetic clapping of it, not the girls report.


----------



## legz (Jun 8, 2013)

This is all through the eye of a 15 year old schoolkid. She wanted to do her usual saturday afternoon thing today - go round a few shops with her mates, go somewhere nice to eat - neither she, they or me were going to stop her doing so just because a load of fascists were in town. I'm not there - though I am close to the city centre - I have another kid who has football training today, and as far as both me & him are concerned, no fash are going to stop him doing what he loves! Aside from a few pictures from facebook and twitter, the 15 year old is my eyes and ears on this today!

She's not seen much of this stuff before, so it will be a bit of a different perspective to those of us who've been on the front-line countless times


----------



## Corax (Jun 8, 2013)

Yes. I picked out the full quote. Including the last four words.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2013)

legz said:


> This is all through the eye of a 15 year old schoolkid. She wanted to do her usual saturday afternoon thing today - go round a few shops with her mates, go somewhere nice to eat - neither she, they or me were going to stop her doing so just because a load of fascists were in town. I'm not there - though I am close to the city centre - I have another kid who has football training today, and as far as both me & him are concerned, no fash are going to stop him doing what he loves! Aside from a few pictures from facebook and twitter, the 15 year old is my eyes and ears on this today!
> 
> She's not seen much of this stuff before, so it will be a bit of a different perspective to those of us who've been on the front-line countless times


 
Again, it wasn't your daughters report i was highlighting - it was corax's response to it.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Again, i was responding to corax's pathetic clapping of it, not the girls report.


 
fair enough but you are not going to stop it i'm afraid just as the fash calling all anti's communists/soap dodgers/hippie scum and fucking uaf, good on you for continually pointing it out and getting some people to see it


----------



## Corax (Jun 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Again, it wasn't your daughters report i was highlighting - it was corax's response to it.


 
Well done.


----------



## legz (Jun 8, 2013)

OK - a few bits more - have a friend who works close to West Street, but still a bit vague......

EDL ended up getting kettled on West Street outside a bar - yes there is a weatherspoons there! - not sure what started it off. A smaller group of EDL took refuge in the Harley bar and ended up stuck in the beer garden with the pub doors locked on them, obviously once everyone else clocked who they were . Uni students got wind of this, climbed the walls to the beer garden and penned them in from their side, bricks then started flying each way. Two or three injuries suggested?

Seems to have died down a lot now


----------



## legz (Jun 8, 2013)

Crappy wreath has been floating in pieces in the paddling pool next to the fountain for most of the afternoon!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 8, 2013)

legz said:


> EDL have been to the cenotaph, many swilling tinnies along the way, laid what looked to be like one of those £3 bouquets you get from a petrol station - accompanied by the usual chants, quite a few raised arms (she wasn't close enough to see if they were nazi-saluting or not). In her 15 year old words on one of her texts..."lots of baldness, lots of beerguts, lots of crap tattoos, lots of missing teeth. Master-race my arse"


 


Corax said:


> Fucking lol
> 
> You done a good job there by the sounds of it legz.


 
I was there too. I've got missing teeth, a bit of a beer gut and not a great deal of hair. Wish someone had fucking told me I was on the wrong demo.


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2013)

Collins on socialist unity  is deleting all posts from anyone who tries to say both EDL and Jihadis must be challenged, so much for free speech


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2013)

If only we could all be massing against the government and preventing them flushing the NHS down the bog and starving out the unemployed, rather than having to fight numbskulls on the street.

It's why they're given an easy ride by police & media, isn't it? Not a CT to think this is a very convenient diversion of the left. Cunts.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> It's why they're given an easy ride by police & media, isn't it? Not a CT to think this is a very convenient diversion of the left. Cunts.


 

I have suspected this for a long while, also factor in the desirability for the government of a lot of the people who are facing the brunt of the cuts blaming their neighbours for their rapidly decreasing quality of life.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2013)

Tommy's appearance on Faux News http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreil...81675001/islam-vs-the-west/?playlist_id=86923


----------



## Favelado (Jun 8, 2013)

Woops!

https://twitter.com/UsamaTheBrown/status/343470164370653184/photo/1

Tommy's phone number leaked by Anonymous.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Tommy's appearance on Faux News http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreil...81675001/islam-vs-the-west/?playlist_id=86923


 

@ about 3:40 Tommy seems to be arguing that there exists some sort of Muslim equivalent of what neo-Nazis call the 'Zionist Occupied Government' by pulling statistics out of his arse. That's new, isn't it?


----------



## cdg (Jun 8, 2013)

Ring him and tell him personally 07858281182


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> I bet she hates that picture now, served her time and probably has nothing to do with radical politics now.


 

trees, it dont follow. i was on the front page of the local paper with a comrade yonks back fighting with plod over a tory twat visitor. both of us still at it. bumped into him at EDL in manchester lurking round the periphery clearly up to 'no good!'


----------



## peterkro (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I was there too. I've got missing teeth, a bit of a beer gut and not a great deal of hair. Wish someone had fucking told me I was on the wrong demo.


 
Although I wasn't on the demo I fill the bill as well.I suppose I'd better be careful around uaf cadres.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

J Ed said:


> @ about 3:40 Tommy seems to be arguing that there exists some sort of Muslim equivalent of what neo-Nazis call the 'Zionist Occupied Government' by pulling statistics out of his arse. That's new, isn't it?


 
nah, it's the eurabia stuff, its been around for a few years.


----------



## andysays (Jun 9, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Although I wasn't on the demo I fill the bill as well.I suppose I'd better be careful around uaf cadres.


 
Just keep an eye out for texting 15 year old girls, in case they turn out to be legz's daughter updating her dad


----------



## J Ed (Jun 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> nah, it's the eurabia stuff, its been around for a few years.


 

I'm not so sure - the idea that the government won't do anything because Muslims have a financial stranglehold on Britain is new (to me at least)


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I was there too. I've got missing teeth, a bit of a beer gut and not a great deal of hair. Wish someone had fucking told me I was on the wrong demo.



It sounds like half the audience at the Fall gig in Wakefield last night too. Maybe that was the afterparty?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

J Ed said:


> I'm not so sure - the idea that the government won't do anything because Muslims have a financial stranglehold on Britain is new (to me at least)


 
Was a huge trope in the 70s (US and UK) with the influx of petrodollars. Lots of mainstream comedy shows depicting sheiks walking around buying everything they see.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 9, 2013)

Trying to remember the documentary (human rights related?) that was suppressed or chastised in the 80's at the request of the Saudis - they could pull some strings at one time. It was even a running theme on Spitting Image once. Not sure if that was down to oil or arms deals.

Capitalism, not religion though, obviously.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 9, 2013)

Think this was it, I was a bit too young at the time to pick up all the politics:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_a_Princess

There was also recently the BAE corruption case that was dropped.

That the rulers of Saudi are cunts with some political clout is not in dispute, but to extrapolate this into a multinational Islamic conspiracy is horseshit. I can think of other nations that project power and culture far more effectively. Maybe someone should ask Tommy if he can think who this might be? Any chance of a decent TV interviewer pursuing this line of questioning?

(One of the more laughable EDL events has been the KFC/Halal chicken protests - defending the 'English' culture of southern fried chicken? This also contradicts the whole 'we're only against extreme Islam' claim - but that's not one anyone seriously believes anyway, is it?)


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

EDL saluting at the war memorial in Sheffield - certainly looks very  but surely they're not _that _stupid?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 9, 2013)

...because the stupid thing in all this is that 'western culture' has penetrated Islamic nations far more than Islamic culture has penetrated 'the west' in return. There are also extremist wankers over there fighting against this 'cultural invasion', read some of BinLaden's justifications. Reactionary twats are a universal problem.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

this muslim conspiracy shit is quite popular among supporters of israel


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Sounds a lot like the old antisemitic conspiracy theories, just re-heated and adapted to today's acceptable prejudices. Replace Jews with Muslims, zionist bankers with arab sheikhs and sprinkle in a bit of JHE rhetoric and leave to simmer for 10 years.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> EDL saluting at the war memorial in Sheffield - certainly looks very  but surely they're not _that _stupid?



They're sieg heiling a British war memorial?


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:
			
		

> I was there too. I've got missing teeth, a bit of a beer gut and not a great deal of hair. Wish someone had fucking told me I was on the wrong demo.



As far as I know you don't believe yourself to be the master race though.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22831882


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

Corax said:


> As far as I know you don't believe yourself to be the master race though.


 
You wouldn't get as far as finding out though would you, having already decided he is fash based on his physical appearance. 

And this after you calling an anti-fascist a fascist last week. You really don't see it do you? What use is this?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Corax said:


> As far as I know you don't believe yourself to be the master race though.


 
So what? Take the piss out of them for their racism. Leave the shit about beer guts and missing teeth out of it.

Racism against black bosses would rightly never be tolerated. Sexism against female bosses would rightly never be tolerated. But somehow this kind of crap is acceptable.

Why do you think they have missing teeth Corax? Because they're of inferior genetic stock? Or could it just be that dentistry is prohibitively expensive in this country?

Twat.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

Maybe we could make everyone with missing teeth wear a little badge so that we can spot them before they open their mouths and are let onto any anti-fash demos.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> They're sieg heiling a British war memorial?


 

without a hint of irony


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Omfg.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> They're not sieg-heiling, if you look closely (other photos show it more clearly elsewhere on the 'net) it's the two-fingered victory salute.
> 
> Clearly designed as a provocation and wind-up though.


 
Like they don't do enough to provoke censure without using devious tactics like this. But saying that a bit of propaganda can't hurt the cause against them can it?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Not having a go at the 15 year old by the way - you can't expect kids to have perfectly formed political views and so on. But the idea that this kind of prejudice is something to be proud of needs to be challenged.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> They're not sieg-heiling, if you look closely (other photos show it more clearly elsewhere on the 'net) it's the two-fingered victory salute.
> 
> Clearly designed as a provocation and wind-up though.



Doesn't look like all of them are doing that.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> EDL saluting at the war memorial in Sheffield - certainly looks very  but surely they're not _that _stupid?


 

ask Forge Student Press who were in the cage, they will know?


----------



## Favelado (Jun 9, 2013)

.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> Anyway, it was my first ever anti-EDL thing. I'd been working nearby in the morning and decided to go and see if it's as much fun as people seem to reckon.
> 
> I wasn't disappointed. I was impressed by the way that you can get your shopping in and nip off for a coffee, and then come back and find that you haven't missed anything. I even contemplated going in and having a neck and shoulder massage when passing the Chinese medicine place.


 
Careful now. That stuff is dangerous.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> No it doesn't on that photograph.



Perhaps owing to the fact that I'm unaware that the arm needs to be held at the same angle as a sieg heil for the v for victory sign.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> Maybe.


 
I think you're right actually.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2013)

don't recall ever seeing a photo of winnie straight arming a v-sign


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Doesn't look like all of them are doing that.


 
Maybe they're being cleverer than we give them credit for. Think about it - devise a 'peace sign'/'victory salute' that looks very much like a nazi salute and make sure everyone knows what it is. Then people will think the fash in there who can't resist a bit of the old sieg heil are doing that too.

Or am I giving them too much credit here?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> ask Forge Student Press who were in the cage, they will know?


 
I know one of the main people at forge - I'll ask him to find out. I've heard the two finger thing from somewhere else now too so I think it's probably right. But there will be nazis using it as cover for a proper roman salute too.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Maybe they're being cleverer than we give them credit for. Think about it - devise a 'peace sign'/'victory salute' that looks very much like a nazi salute and make sure everyone knows what it is. Then people will think the fash in there who can't resist a bit of the old sieg heil are doing that too.
> 
> Or am I giving them too much credit here?


 
d-day and all that.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

seems like there are people all over the web who really really want them to be sieg heiling, personally I don't, they are bad enough without moving as a group into that territory


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> She's just a girl who thinks they're ugly gets. I saw a load of them close up, penned in at that student pub (the Harley?) They were indeed a bunch of ugly cunts. I felt like a male model in comparison.


 
Well done.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> seems like there are people all over the web who really really want them to be sieg heiling, personally I don't, they are bad enough without moving as a group into that territory


 
I can sort of see the reasoning - having them doing Nazi salutes at a British war memorial would kill and soft support they might have stone dead. But yes, if those kinds of salutes were accompanied by the associated politics then that would be very worrying.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

revealing new footage, of both sides at the protest by an 'independent videographer'


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> I mean, if you look at that photo some of them are in shorts. It isn't pretty. At a wreath laying ceremony. It's a bit like turning up at a funeral in shorts.
> 
> Only in this day and age.


 
One of the three in shorts is tommy robinson.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> revealing new footage, of both sides at the protest by an 'independent videographer'




_Good lord, if it wasn't for the coppers you'd be dead_. Be _very_ careful what you wish for.


----------



## Fedayn (Jun 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Was a huge trope in the 70s (US and UK) with the influx of petrodollars. Lots of mainstream comedy shows depicting sheiks walking around buying everything they see.


 

And even mentioned in Elvis Costello's 'Olivers Army'.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I was there too. I've got missing teeth, a bit of a beer gut and not a great deal of hair. Wish someone had fucking told me I was on the wrong demo.


 
I like stella, I like drugs, I've got my front teeth missing, I wear all the ''chavvy'' clothes, I've got a crooked nose, I wear my hair short and I've even got a butchers apron tattoo(I was young) does that mean I'm EDL?


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> _Good lord, if it wasn't for the coppers you'd be dead_. Be _very_ careful what you wish for.


 

that's the core of the ISN here..

btw, really surreal to see the local war memorial as a contested space..


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> It does when you want to provoke people.



Risky strategy doing that at a war memorial though. They run the risk of turning off those they think they appeal to.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> And even mentioned in Elvis Costello's 'Olivers Army'.


 
That's what i was trying to remember! Ta, somehow got it in my mind it was a stranglers song i was thinking of so have been poring over their lyrics, right i can get on with other stuff now


----------



## Fedayn (Jun 9, 2013)

Few comments from a member of the BBC (Blades Business Crew) Sheffield Uniteds football mob.



> Well I knew the day would finally come when they paid a visit to my city, maybe a 1000 or so, 90% under the age of 25.. sad to say I knew some there, young gullible lads aged between 16-21
> Fair few EDL laid out with sore jaws on the back streets though
> 
> 
> ...


 


> Yeah mate, quite a few EDL knocked out cold in a few seperate incidents.. about 20 of us but UAF just wanted to fight us when it was quite clear we were not edl, even a few black lads with us could not calm certain uaf who because of our clothes thought we were edl


 


> Tommy Robinson was there so I'm guessing they came from all over but with the majority from Yorkshire maybe..
> 
> Ones I recognised were young lads that I know personally as well as football lads, funny you never see Wednesday lads in the town centre but they were all over it today, big organised mob of them met up and then went to the meeting point of the EDL
> 
> Only organised Blades mob was the 20 of us.. although I did see the odd young Blades lad with the EDL sadly


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

cdg said:


> I like stella, I like drugs, I've got my front teeth missing, I wear all the ''chavvy'' clothes, I've got a crooked nose, I wear my hair short and I've even got a butchers apron tattoo(I was young) does that mean I'm EDL?


 
Yes.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> Thay're not really about appealing to anybody.


 
Yes they are, what do you think the desperate attempts to stop members chanting, getting pissed and generally acting more like they were celebrating than paying their respects were all about? They want their 'movement' to grow. That means appealing to people.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yes.


 
E E EDF.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> No. But both sides could definiely do with making a bit more of an effort with themselves.


 
Yes, that's what really counts after all.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2013)

cdg said:


> E E EDF.


 

keep it old school with British movement Gas


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> No. But both sides could definiely do with making a bit more of an effort with themselves.


 
What do you suggest as a start? You seem to know your aesthetics.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> Maybe they do then.
> 
> It just seems to me that they're about wasting everybody's time and posing around. Look at me, I'm hard, me, and I don't like Muslims. And coppers.


 
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. And some of them are a lot more sophisticated than that. Biggest mistake you can make is underestimating them.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> I don't know. There are umpteen options.


 
I'm listening/reading.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> They're not really about appealing to anybody.



This. vvvvv



SpineyNorman said:


> Yes they are, what do you think the desperate attempts to stop members chanting, getting pissed and generally acting more like they were celebrating than paying their respects were all about? They want their 'movement' to grow. That means appealing to people.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> It's really down to you.


 
I'm OK with my own and others appearance. It was you that suggested it was a problem.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

Re video I posted, silly girl, dancing on a war memorial is not on and it will be used as ammunition by the EDL, etc.

anyway, was the march a success for the EDL, a fair number on their FB page are saying they will attend in future, etc.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

They were _always_ here Gene. Ooh-e-oo-e.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> Aargh, the Nazis are here!


 
You're a bit of a twat really aren't you?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> Re video I posted, silly girl, dancing on a war memorial is not on and it will be used as ammunition by the EDL, etc.


 
Let's hope people don't go posting it all over the internet then 



treelover said:


> anyway, was the march a success for the EDL, a fair number on their FB page are saying they will attend in future, etc.


 
They do that after every march - not saying it hasn't helped them get more but that's not much use as an indication.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> The rump remainder of the far left needs the EDL. The EDL need people to shriek at them.
> 
> Both sides go home thinking they've participated in politics.



No, the far left don't need the fucking edl. It's a welcome distraction for some quarters though.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

Blue Labour supporter Gene?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> The rump remainder of the far left needs the EDL. The EDL need people to shriek at them.
> 
> Both sides go home thinking they've participated in politics.


 
plastic nose dropped off?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Is this 'comedy glasses' again?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Jinx dotty


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> The rump remainder of the far left needs the EDL. The EDL need people to shriek at them.
> 
> Both sides go home thinking they've participated in politics.


 
There's an element of truth to that if by far left you mean the SWP. It's the liberals who really love this shit, makes them feel superior to the ugly smelly stupid proles. Bit like you. But that's hardly a revelation is it?

I'm far left, I'd much rather be doing community or workplace stuff than that.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> plastic nose dropped off?


 
I don't think it's LLETSA. There's usually something at least vaguely interesting and perceptive in his posts and he's not from Sheffield.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 9, 2013)

Welcome, Gene.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> Fair enough. But apart from when acting as individuals, this is exactly what the far-left does not do. Instead they're chasing' Nazis.' 'Nazis'ho just so happen to have been invented recently.


 
You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> Maybe not. It just looks that way to an outsider.


 
Prior to the killing of Lee Rigby I can't remember the last antifascist mobilisation in Sheffield. Mainly because there's not really been a far right threat that's needed countering so I'm not sure how you've got that impression.

You're more likely to see this:







or this






And of course if yesterday's demo, in which Lib Dems, Labourites and Tories together probably outnumbered the far left was a far left demo then this was one too:


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

I think you will find most on here agree with those sentiments,

btw, heard of left unity, new formation..


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/510307.html

Oh dear, something called The Enfield Army is threatening to 'smash G8 protestors'

one man army or is this the 'ordinary' Enfielders who marched to 'protect their manor'


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/510307.html
> 
> Oh dear, something called The Enfield Army is threatening to 'smash G8 protestors'
> 
> one man army or is this the 'ordinary' Enfielders who marched to 'protect their manor'


 
No it's not. Why can't you stop running around panicking ffs.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

I'm just reposting and asking for opinions, again stop trying to police the boards.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> I'm just reposting and asking for opinions, again stop trying to police the boards.


 
Telling you to stop panicking over some knob on some obscure site is exactly the sort of internal policing that's needed. Why the frig did you think it was a good idea to goo looking for and then post some irrelevant internet threat from elsewhere? You're out of control with this stuff right now.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> I'm just reposting and asking for opinions, again stop trying to police the boards.


 
But not my opinion.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> No it's not. Why can't you stop running around panicking ffs.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> Fair enough. But apart from when acting as individuals, this is exactly what the far-left does not do. Instead they're chasing' Nazis.' 'Nazis' who just so happen to have been invented recently.


 
I have a theory that  the 'Nazis' only exist to
1) keep the SWPs united front of a special kind theory going ,
2) give the the anarchist anti fascist scene something to do than  standing outside Oxfam opposing world capitalism and precariosity
3) keep Bob2009  busy in between being a father, doing the kitchen, the allotment and taking pictures of badly parked cars
4) help Malatestsa write his book


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> I know. But it's the stuff the left has been doing with diminishing impact for decades. No roots among the working class whatsover.


 
That's hardly a revelation though is it? And it does fly in the face of your earlier assertion that opposing 'nazis' is all the far left does.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 9, 2013)

Looks like it might be another EDL attack  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22831882?


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Emphasis on might. Fuckinell though two treated for smoke inhalation. That and the whole thing could've been so much worse.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Anyone in Sheffield know Lee Rock?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2703341759/permalink/10151638587151760/


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> That isn't exactly what I said. I said that the rump left and the contrived EDL need each other. The EDL need the far-left to shout at them and make them feel important. The far-left needs to feel that it has achieved something by mobilising and shouting at them.


 
that being the case it is a curious departure for the edl to apparently take to arson at times of day when no one's about to shout 'oi! edl! no!' at them


----------



## protesticals (Jun 9, 2013)

> That isn't exactly what I said. I said that the rump left and the contrived EDL need each other. The EDL need the far-left to shout at them and make them feel important. The far-left needs to feel that it has achieved something by mobilising and shouting at them.


 
Two groups of people with less supporters that Walton and Hersham football club (of Sham' 69 fame) who think their silly little street fight is a major issue. Why don't they take up Live Action roleplaying?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Two groups of people with less supporters that Walton and Hersham football club (of Sham' 69 fame) who think their silly little street fight is a major issue. Why don't they take up Live Action roleplaying?


 
As an anti-capitalist, how would this work?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

This idea about people "looking like fash" for having missing teeth or whatever is total bollocks anyway. Most of the racism I've experienced has been from middle class people (or people with more "social capital" at least), people who don't think of themselves as racist and are frequently able to give sophisticated arguments about why they're not - who would be shocked if anyone called them a racist or pointed out they were expressing racist views - I mean you only have to look at Falcon on the other thread going on about his "20 years of senior management experience". I wouldn't automatically assume that a middle aged man who was going bald and who had missing teeth and a beer belly was fash, I might think that they had also had prejudice based on the way they looked or where they were from, or what their lives were like. And too often people who do have these problems are assumed to be dodgy or whatever based on how they look, whereas its simply the case that people can't afford to go to a fucking dentist. And it's going to get a lot worse. It's pretty poor form for anti-fascists to assume people are scum based on how they look, when that sort of thing should be left to our opponents.


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Was a huge trope in the 70s (US and UK) with the influx of petrodollars. Lots of mainstream comedy shows depicting sheiks walking around buying everything they see.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

Excellent example elbows.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

9p. Blimey.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> This idea about people "looking like fash" for having missing teeth or whatever is total bollocks anyway. Most of the racism I've experienced has been from middle class people (or people with more "social capital" at least), people who don't think of themselves as racist and are frequently able to give sophisticated arguments about why they're not - who would be shocked if anyone called them a racist or pointed out they were expressing racist views - I mean you only have to look at Falcon on the other thread going on about his "20 years of senior management experience". I wouldn't automatically assume that a middle aged man who was going bald and who had missing teeth and a beer belly was fash, I might think that they had also had prejudice based on the way they looked or where they were from, or what their lives were like. And too often people who do have these problems are assumed to be dodgy or whatever based on how they look, whereas its simply the case that people can't afford to go to a fucking dentist. And it's going to get a lot worse. It's pretty poor form for anti-fascists to assume people are scum based on how they look, when that sort of thing should be left to our opponents.


 
if people wear a blood and honour patch i think it's fair enough to assume they're scum


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> if people wear a blood and honour patch i think it's fair enough to assume they're scum


 
Well, yes  obviously blood and honour clothes/tats, swastikas etc are an exception lol


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:
			
		

> This idea about people "looking like fash" for having missing teeth or whatever is total bollocks anyway. Most of the racism I've experienced has been from middle class people (or people with more "social capital" at least), people who don't think of themselves as racist and are frequently able to give sophisticated arguments about why they're not - who would be shocked if anyone called them a racist or pointed out they were expressing racist views - I mean you only have to look at Falcon on the other thread going on about his "20 years of senior management experience". I wouldn't automatically assume that a middle aged man who was going bald and who had missing teeth and a beer belly was fash, I might think that they had also had prejudice based on the way they looked or where they were from, or what their lives were like. And too often people who do have these problems are assumed to be dodgy or whatever based on how they look, whereas its simply the case that people can't afford to go to a fucking dentist. And it's going to get a lot worse. It's pretty poor form for anti-fascists to assume people are scum based on how they look, when that sort of thing should be left to our opponents.



And the fash allegedly being shocked at how red action looked like them. Politics doesn't have a 'look' ffs. Nor does the look matter; their ideas need challenging not whether they've had dental work done or not.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

How many pages is this thread now? It's bizarre how we have to keep re-visiting that point.


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2013)

A 15 year old made a 'master-race' joke FFS.  I thought it was funny.  That's all.  I've got a paunch and chipped teeth myself FTR.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

im not specifically having a go at you but this topic keeps on coming up, its a wider problem than urban as well.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

Corax said:


> A 15 year old made a 'master-race' joke FFS. I thought it was funny. That's all. I've got a paunch and chipped teeth myself FTR.


 
It's her not you. Classy.


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> im not specifically having a go at you but this topic keeps on coming up, its a wider problem than urban as well.


 
Fair enough.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:
			
		

> All this because a fifteen year-old girl mentioned missing teeth.* Get a grip, people.
> 
> *I've had a broken front tooth for 20 years. Makes me look vaguely untrustworthy, so I'm told.



Yeah but you've been here less than a day so who gives a shit what you think?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

Corax said:


> Fair enough.


 
seriously, have a look at some of the "expose the edl" and "still laughing at the edl" facebook groups if you think this stuff isn't a problem.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:
			
		

> seriously, have a look at some of the "expose the edl" and "still laughing at the edl" facebook groups if you think this stuff isn't a problem.



Sexism and class prejudice to fight racism.


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> seriously, have a look at some of the "expose the edl" and "still laughing at the edl" facebook groups if you think this stuff isn't a problem.


 
I've seen them - and agree.


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> 9p. Blimey.


 
Looking at other covers it was only 8p in January of that year, 1978, but I doubt the Mustapha Million strip explored the reasons for inflation or tried to blame petrodollars and the price of oil.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> seriously, have a look at some of the "expose the edl" and "still laughing at the edl" facebook groups if you think this stuff isn't a problem.


 

One of the admins for SLATUKIP and SLATEDL goes to my uni. Anyway, the problem isn't just that their pages promotes classism and sexism but that if you point that out and ask that they don't then they accuse you of supporting the EDL or being a racist.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> No paunch here. Just turned 50 but could pass for 34. 30 on a good day.


 
Fuck off and die you cunt.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

J Ed said:


> One of the admins for SLATUKIP and SLATEDL goes to my uni. Anyway, the problem isn't just that their pages promotes classism and sexism but that if you point that out and ask that they don't then they accuse you of supporting the EDL or being a racist.


 
Yeah I know. 

For fuck's sake.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> It's daft, but it's only the flip-side of what the far-right say about UAF types: soap dodgers, ugly dykes, unwashed muppets etc.
> 
> Anyway, the middle class have more than their fair share of ugly bastards. Some of them will be in the EDL and the BNP, pretending to be working class.


 
You insinuated earlier in this thread that you share those opinions.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

You didn't say both EDL and UAF could do to clean themselves up? You comer across as quite judgemental(not bigoted though) to me. I've already quoted you earlier in the thread but I could go and quote it again just to jog your memory if you want.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> No I didn't. I said that the EDL looked a pretty ugly bunch to me. I also said that I didn't care about it, nor about anybody else's appearance really. It has no bearing on your politics.
> 
> Anyway, how can you care when, basically, the whole of Britain, with it's deranged cult of 'body art' and junk food body style, is pretty ugly. Right across the class divide. Friday night in a pub round here, it was like the fucking chamber of horrors.


 
Fuck off and die you cunt.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:
			
		

> Sorry, I didn't know the senior boys had priority.



Where did I say that? You're coming out with some of the usual dismissive bollocks that we hear from posters who have been here for years. Why not carve a bit of originality instead of jumping in someone else's pants?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:
			
		

> It's daft, but it's only the flip-side of what the far-right say about UAF types: soap dodgers, ugly dykes, unwashed muppets etc.
> 
> Anyway, the middle class have more than their fair share of ugly bastards. Some of them will be in the EDL and the BNP, pretending to be working class.



If the far  right want to make non political arguments about the opposition that's their perogative. Pisses me off when supposed left wingers do it because they're supposed to be fighting prejudice which kind of places it as a weapon off bounds.


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> I am judgemental. It's a better way to be.


 
How so?


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

Things and events and attitudes are annoying, absolutely. How people look however are not, why would they be?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2013)

its amusing how often the drink thing comes up, pretty sure I have mentioned it myself. Whereas all lefties are tetollars who never touched a drop? nah. I'm no veteran of marches but I do feel the need for some fosters-led lubrication when on one!

theres corage and then theres courage. 8 tins of diamond white is not appropriate but a few tins of something that does not make a raging dickhead out of you is just standard right?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2013)

thats small beer. You can't go chuffing supers when out and about, you shall come to mischief


----------



## J Ed (Jun 9, 2013)

From yesterday


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

Wouldn't worry about it. Are you on top of who he is


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> its amusing how often the drink thing comes up, pretty sure I have mentioned it myself. Whereas all lefties are tetollars who never touched a drop? nah. I'm no veteran of marches but I do feel the need for some fosters-led lubrication when on one!
> 
> theres corage and then theres courage. 8 tins of diamond white is not appropriate but a few tins of something that does not make a raging dickhead out of you is just standard right?


It can be a nice way of getting to know people as well.  Every protest I've been on I've just turned up on my tod, rather than as part of a group or an organisation.  Despite being in amongst hundreds of people on the same side, that can be a bit of a lonely and intimidating place - especially given the understandable caution a lot of people have about infiltrators and agents provocateur.  Being able to offer a can of something to whoever's alongside you at the time can be a bit of an icebreaker, a way of striking up a conversation.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Wouldn't worry about it. Are you on top of who he is


 

No. Although I noticed quite a few BNP faces on the march, Jack Buckby was there for example.


----------



## Corax (Jun 9, 2013)

J Ed said:


> From yesterday


 

_*Taxi!!!*_

_* *_


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

hardcore entry - buy a can. Impossible hurdle.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

J Ed said:


> No. Although I noticed quite a few BNP faces on the march, Jack Buckby was there for example.


 
You needs to get a skill set update.Wait a bit.


----------



## discokermit (Jun 9, 2013)

Corax said:


> It can be a nice way of getting to know people as well. Every protest I've been on I've just turned up on my tod, rather than as part of a group or an organisation. Despite being in amongst hundreds of people on the same side, that can be a bit of a lonely and intimidating place - especially given the understandable caution a lot of people have about infiltrators and agents provocateur. Being able to offer a can of something to whoever's alongside you at the time can be a bit of an icebreaker, a way of striking up a conversation.


also, later on you might be able to bounce one off a coppers head.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2013)

J Ed said:


> From yesterday


 

is the caption on that banner headed by a 'useless' that has been cropped out?


----------



## tony.c (Jun 9, 2013)

discokermit said:


> also, later on you might be able to bounce one off a coppers head.


Or a fash's fat ugly toothless bald head.

But make sure it's not me.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> That isn't exactly what I said. I said that the rump left and the contrived EDL need each other. The EDL need the far-left to shout at them and make them feel important. The far-left needs to feel that it has achieved something by mobilising and shouting at them.


This is all getting a little bit predictable. And if, as you imply, the far left would suffer some kind of existential crisis if it didn't have the EDL/alternative far right loons to shout at what's served as the substitute for the last couple of decades in Sheffield?

Your comments are either so obvious as to not need making or just plan wrong. Especially as the majority of people there yesterday weren't even far left.

And when you've got a deep green like protesticals who'd genocide the working class to save a rare breed of algae liking your posts you're probably in trouble.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Anyone in Sheffield know Lee Rock?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/2703341759/permalink/10151638587151760/


 
Yeah I do - he's a bit spart-like but basically a good egg. Shows what cowards they are, he's only a little fella and three of them decided to jump him. Cunts.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

J Ed said:


> One of the admins for SLATUKIP and SLATEDL goes to my uni. Anyway, the problem isn't just that their pages promotes classism and sexism but that if you point that out and ask that they don't then they accuse you of supporting the EDL or being a racist.


 
Who's that? (PM if need be)


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> I am judgemental. It's a better way to be.
> 
> Basically, I hate everybody. Even me.


 
At least there's one thing we agree on then.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Gene Ostrov said:


> the whole of Britain, with it's deranged cult of 'body art' and junk food body style, is pretty ugly


 
Would you say society is being infantilised too? Are you sure you're from Sheffield?

I see two possibilities here. Either LLETSA has got better at hiding or you're a mediocre tribute act. Which is it?


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Or a fash's fat ugly toothless bald head.
> 
> But make sure it's not me.


 
no, you just censor posts on Islamic fundamentalism, this is a free speech site unlike yours.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 9, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> T
> 
> And when you've got a deep green like protesticals who'd genocide the working class to save a rare breed of algae liking your posts you're probably in trouble.


 
Damned right. Although I need some to collect and spread manure on my organic garden.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Damned right. Although I need some to collect and spread manure on my organic garden.


 
I've been doing some work on my uncle's allotment today, putting some guttering on his shed so the rainwater collects into a big old plastic chemical drum with the top cut off it. I didn't bother looking inside before I picked it up and so was ignorant of the fact he put a mix of fucking chicken and horse shit or summat in there with water and left it to 'mature'. Spilt it all over myself and my tool box - I can still smell it


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 9, 2013)

What are your views on handing out violence against groups like the EDL or BNP?

If you see somebody in the street who is an EDL supporter are they fair game to attack? What about if you are at one of these counter demonstrations and you see some of them on their way home. Do you attack them or fight back only in self defence if physically threatened?

Does it depend on the faction they are in? Is an EDL person less worse than somebody who is in the NF or is it one and the same?

Let me know thanks.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> What are your views on handing out violence against groups like the EDL or BNP?
> 
> If you see somebody in the street who is an EDL supporter are they fair game to attack? What about if you are at one of these counter demonstrations and you see some of them on their way home. Do you attack them or fight back only in self defence if physically threatened?
> 
> ...


 
Who are you asking?thanks.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Who are you asking?thanks.


 

Anyone that goes to counter-demonstrations. I suppose it differs between different individuals?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> What are your views on handing out violence against groups like the EDL or BNP?
> 
> If you see somebody in the street who is an EDL supporter are they fair game to attack? What about if you are at one of these counter demonstrations and you see some of them on their way home. Do you attack them or fight back only in self defence if physically threatened?
> 
> ...


 
Depends where they are trying to get to or do.
No.
No/I would fight back if they kicked off.
Depends where they are trying to get to or do.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> What are your views on handing out violence against groups like the EDL or BNP?
> 
> If you see somebody in the street who is an EDL supporter are they fair game to attack? What about if you are at one of these counter demonstrations and you see some of them on their way home. Do you attack them or fight back only in self defence if physically threatened?
> 
> ...


 
yes


----------



## tony.c (Jun 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> no, you just censor posts on Islamic fundamentalism, this is a free speech site unlike yours.


Eh? wtf are you on about? I think you're confusing me with someone else. I don't have a site, censorious or not.

edit: And to those who liked edllovers post, after 6 months posting on this site, I would have thought you might have known where I am coming from by now. I'm disappointed (at best) about you.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2013)

Come on, lets have it, lets have it.... oh run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 9, 2013)

I'm not FROM Sheffield, no.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 9, 2013)

oh, hello


----------



## cdg (Jun 9, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Come on, lets have it, lets have it.... oh run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





I'm not surprised they shit em.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> What are your views on handing out violence against groups like the EDL or BNP?
> 
> If you see somebody in the street who is an EDL supporter are they fair game to attack? What about if you are at one of these counter demonstrations and you see some of them on their way home. Do you attack them or fight back only in self defence if physically threatened?
> 
> ...


 
Are you taking the piss?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 9, 2013)

Has someone been banned and had their posts deleted or am I just being thick and having trouble following the thread?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

Over the last 2 weeks a lot has been going on re the EDL and their disgraceful efforts to capitalize on the emotional reactions brought about in the direct aftermath of the Woolwich attack.

So, it would be interesting to take a step back and judge whether events have played out in their favour. Have they been successful in gaining back the “soft” support that had been steadily falling away from them? And more importantly, have they improved their standing in working class areas? A sort of reward for crying wolf.

What is the perception of them from the sidelines? I mean amongst people on estates (potential recruits) who are watching and perhaps judging both sides.

The Sieg heiling on a day that they were supposed to be laying wreathes in memory of Lee Rigby is propaganda enough to use against them, let alone the drinking, threat of violence and barely veiled racism in general, but I fear the image given by the mainly middle class people opposing the EDL, occupying war memorials has not been the best either. I am not saying it was a wrong strategy but I would have preferred to have seen a more working class anti fascism rather than what we are seeing at the moment.

Some things have stuck in my mind

At Leeds last week a woman argued with an alleged Edl’er at the memorial. Her arguement? The English don’t exist. Followed by confusion about the universe, the stars and how small we all are. WTF? The guy called her a hippy and walked off.

Then, if that wasn’t bad enough, in Sheffield last week a man in a “jihadi” shirt threw the flowers to be laid at the memorial. What does that look like?

I mention both these events together as I think that middle class anti fascism is seriously flawed and is more likely working to recruit for those they oppose.

It has just been said that image is not relevant in politics, but if you have lived on a council estate you will know that is not true. There is tremendous prejudice against the middle classes, especially the ones who dress scruffy to hide their affluent background. Working class people detect it and dislike it.

There is a saying ”Perception is everything in politics”
The point I am trying to make is that I don’t feel attracted at all to “official” anti EDL protests.
It also makes me sick to hear that working class people have been “outed” on demos and that, as in the case of the “Sheffield BBC” they were mistaken for EDL. That says to me that working class people are foreign or perceived as foreign to anti-fascist politics.

What has British anti-fascism been turned into?

“if it wasn’t for the coppers you’d be dead” Yeah, lets Sneer the oiks to death.

This picture needs to be circulated more...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 10, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Then, if that wasn’t bad enough, in Sheffield last week a man in a “jihadi” shirt threw the flowers to be laid at the memorial. What does that look like?


 

This never happened.

All sorts have been said on the subject of wreaths and the UAF last week, the best is that I've heard people saying that the UAF were actually picking up and eating poppies from the war memorial! Eating!

What actually happened was that the EDL threw a wreath at the anti-EDL demo across police lines when they couldn't get through, it landed next to a fountain and UAF members picked up the flowers and gave them to each other.

edit: not to suggest that your overall concerns aren't valid, they are.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

J Ed said:


> This never happened.
> 
> All sorts have been said on the subject of wreaths and the UAF last week, the best is that I've heard people saying that the UAF were actually picking up and eating poppies from the war memorial! Eating!
> 
> ...


 
I've seen the video, the T-shirt is black with arabic writing in white. Similar to the flag that was talked about recently.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 10, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> I've seen the video, the T-shirt is black with arabic writing in white. Similar to the flag that was talked about recently.


 
Post it up then.


----------



## smokedout (Jun 10, 2013)

Wasn't sure where to put this but its important so will leave it here

Anjem Choudry has been to the shops to purchase snacks!

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4960171/Hate-preacher-Anjem-Choudary-shopping.html#ixzz2VlPQECRN​


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

smokedout said:


> Wasn't sure where to put this but its important so will leave it here
> 
> Anjem Choudry has been to the shops to purchase snacks!
> 
> Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4960171/Hate-preacher-Anjem-Choudary-shopping.html#ixzz2VlPQECRN​


 
bah, product placement.

Weren't some mad racist group supposed to arrest him by 6 o'clock two weeks ago?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 10, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Post it up then.


 

I think he means this one



No one really seems to have much respect for the flowers here


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Post it up then.


 
Right, found it again. It's not a T-shirt but a flag he wraps around himself.



There's also a video knocking about of the EDL leader briefing them all before setting off to the memorial. Very worried about image he is.


----------



## cdg (Jun 10, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> bah, product placement.
> 
> Weren't some mad racist group supposed to arrest him by 6 o'clock two weeks ago?


 
how boring is that.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

J Ed said:


> This never happened.
> 
> All sorts have been said on the subject of wreaths and the UAF last week, the best is that I've heard people saying that the UAF were actually picking up and eating poppies from the war memorial! Eating!
> 
> ...


 

I'm sorry but they didn't, some protestors shredded/ripped them to bits, with some of the crowd cheering(there is footage of this, though can't find it right now) this week a young girl danced on the war memorial after she had put a CND banner on it, the right will use this behaviour for ammunition.


btw, much of the negative behaviour is by young students, etc many though not all who have no real political culture, live largely sheltered lives, do other students confront them about this or is it this is about the only demo they will go this year. Then there are the student rev soc's who should know better but appear to just shout ridiculous slogans like, "if the police weren't here you'd be dead"

these are making up a significant element of Left Unity, doesn't bode well.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> I'm sorry but they didn't, some protestors shredded/ripped them to bits, with some of the crowd cheering(there is footage of this, though can't find it right now) this week a young girl danced on the war memorial after she had put a CND banner on it, the right will use this for ammunition.


 
A CND banner won't be much use as ammunition.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

punctuation isn't my strong point, I welcome your offer of correction.


----------



## tony.c (Jun 10, 2013)

Anudder Oik - I don't understand what those clips are supposed to show or prove.


----------



## tony.c (Jun 10, 2013)

I think there are at least 3 edl trolls on this thread.


----------



## tony.c (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> punctuation isn't my strong point, I welcome your offer of correction.


Intelligence isn't your strong point either, is it?  I'm still waiting for you reply to my reply.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Anudder Oik - I don't understand what those clips are supposed to show or prove.


 
1. Certain aspects of the Counter protests are providing ammunition for the EDL. The jihadi flags appearing have been discussed elsewhere.
2. The organizers of the EDL are interested in image and making their organization grow, as opposed to just wasting time and being drunk, like a poster said a couple of pages back before apparently being banned and having his posts wiped.


----------



## tony.c (Jun 10, 2013)

Fair answer. But edl youtube clips are always going to be chosen and edited to show themselves in the best light and the antifascists in the worst light, aren't they?


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I think there are at least 3 edl trolls on this thread.


 
best name them then

I thought you were Tony C from Socialist Unity website, which is busily deleting posts which argue a different viewpoint on militant Islam than them.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Fair answer. But edl youtube clips are always going to be chosen and edited to show themselves in the best light and the antifascists in the worst light, aren't they?


 
Yes, that goes without saying. The video just shows how their leadership have tried to mold some discipline into their ranks of basically angry unruly cannon fodder.

The point I tried to make in post 12982 is that the same seriousness of approach or even common sense has not been forthcoming from the official counter-protest organizers. They seem haphazard to me. I am starting to wonder who they think they are aiming their message at.
Some actions could be seen as insensative given the high running emotions after the Woolwich attack.


----------



## tony.c (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover
No I'm not him. I believe he posts under his full name occasionally on here.
And I certainly don't have any sympathy with fundamentalist Islamists, or fundamentalist Christians, fundamentalist Jews, fundamentalist Hindus, or any other fundamentalists. I think people are entitled to believe in anything they want to as long as it doesn't involve hating others who don't share their beliefs.
This doesn't apply to fascists though.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

apologies, now could you name who you think on here are 'EDL trolls'


----------



## protesticals (Jun 10, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I've been doing some work on my uncle's allotment today, putting some guttering on his shed so the rainwater collects into a big old plastic chemical drum with the top cut off it. I didn't bother looking inside before I picked it up and so was ignorant of the fact he put a mix of fucking chicken and horse shit or summat in there with water and left it to 'mature'. Spilt it all over myself and my tool box - I can still smell it



I


----------



## tony.c (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> apologies, now could you name who you think on here are 'EDL trolls'


Well as you ask, I had my doubts about you, Oswald Moseley/Charlie Chaplin, and our recent member protesticals.
But I might be a bit paranoid.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

yes, I thought you might, like a few others on here, bizarre really and perhaps a reflection on their views about critical engagement with radical islam, in that just talking about it makes you a shill for the EDL, fucking nonsense basically.

shit thread anyway, full of silly screen grabs, and comdemnathons preaching to the converted, the hard work is elsewhere like Unite Community Union, etc who are trying to engage with all marginalised communities..


----------



## tony.c (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> yes, I thought you might


 
Well actually I did have some sympathy for you when others were having a go at you. I didn't know whether you were being naïve or provocative. But I did take offence when you accused me of being sympathetic to islamist fundamentalists. Seems you haven't read my previous posts, as did those who liked your post.
Anyway no problem. I did tend to skim read your posts, but will try to understand them more in future - though I don't always have the time.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> I have a theory that the 'Nazis' only exist to
> 1) keep the SWPs united front of a special kind theory going ,
> 2) give the the anarchist anti fascist scene something to do than standing outside Oxfam opposing world capitalism and precariosity
> 3) keep Bob2009 busy in between being a father, doing the kitchen, the allotment and taking pictures of badly parked cars
> 4) help Malatestsa write his book


 

its also a day out for some of us mate!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2013)

and for plod!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 10, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yes, that goes without saying. The video just shows how their leadership have tried to mold some discipline into their ranks of basically angry unruly cannon fodder.
> 
> The point I tried to make in post 12982 is that the same seriousness of approach or even common sense has not been forthcoming from the official counter-protest organizers. They seem haphazard to me. I am starting to wonder who they think they are aiming their message at.
> Some actions could be seen as insensative given the high running emotions after the Woolwich attack.



Definitely agree with that. The response I got when I suggested laying our own wreath might be a good idea to show we weren't against paying respects etc was an eye opener.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 10, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Well as you ask, I had my doubts about you, Oswald Moseley/Charlie Chaplin, and our recent member protesticals.
> But I might be a bit paranoid.



Don't know the other two but you're definitely miles off with treelover. Can people really not tell the difference between fash and people they disagree with?


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

i


SpineyNorman said:


> Definitely agree with that. The response I got when I suggested laying our own wreath might be a good idea to show we weren't against paying respects etc was an eye opener.


 
Ironic really, as hundreds of anti's ended up looking at all the wreaths, paying their respects, etc when the barriers were opened.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:
			
		

> Definitely agree with that. The response I got when I suggested laying our own wreath might be a good idea to show we weren't against paying respects etc was an eye opener.



We decided to keep away from any edl wreath laying, it can only look like you're opposing people paying their respects which would be a propaganda coup for them. You have to pick your battles.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 10, 2013)

4 teenagers arrested for that fire on the weekend.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2013)

'we go where we want ...!'


----------



## protesticals (Jun 10, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Well as you ask, I had my doubts about you, Oswald Moseley/Charlie Chaplin, and our recent member protesticals.
> But I might be a bit paranoid.



Me EDL?  Apart from thinking they are a bunch of Moronic, bigoted,violent, thuggish  buffoons. I have no interest in football, far right politics, tarring all muslims as Islamacists, shouting "Allah is a Paedo". Being a  vegan I am repulsed by their use of the dead heads of pigs.

Essentially you mean because I don't like the UAF and their supply of a platform for far-right religious extremists with their anti Gay, misogynist and homophobic rants.

Or is it some Hitler was a vegetarian nonsense ?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

Scratch a hippy...


----------



## protesticals (Jun 10, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Don't know the other two but you're definitely miles off with treelover. Can people really not tell the difference between fash and people they disagree with?



I think some people don't want to know or are so obsessed with their own sectarian attitude to politics that they slander anyone who has a contrary position to their own (generally extremist) position. I think my attitude to the EDL is quite clear.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Scratch a hippy...


 
Or stab them.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Scratch a hippy...


 
and you will probably get lice.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2013)

protesticals said:


> I think some people don't want to know or are so obsessed with their own sectarian attitude to politics that they slander anyone who has a contrary position to their own (generally extremist) position. I think my attitude to the EDL is quite clear.


 
It's marvelous that you use your freedom to tar others as pro-UAF, pro-platform for fundies pro-"neo-fascism", pro-"ultra-right" etc. Could you point out the pro-UAF posters or some of their posts please?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2013)

protesticals said:


> and you will probably get lice.


 
Twat.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2013)

The Islamists who plotted to attack an EDL rally got sentences of 18-19 years:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22841573


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2013)

Blimey that's pretty hefty. (Waits for treelover to come along and ask if the UAF are supporting the prisoners  )


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2013)

I wonder if it's ok to say that the religious part of the justification these idiots offered was religious? Or, like the murders the other week, are we supposed to only view them as political?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 10, 2013)

elbows said:


> The Islamists who plotted to attack an EDL rally got sentences of 18-19 years:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22841573


 
'Horrible weapon' love that bit.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

I think it is really important to be able to reflect on and debate whether our own side is doing the right thing at a strategic and tactical level without people getting all presumptious and accusatory. Lessons need to be learned from these last 2 weeks and debates need oxygen.

On another note, there really are loads of videos from saturday's events at Sheffield that can allow you to build up a picture of what was going on all over the place. Some posts back it was claimed that the police favored the EDL but it turns out that a group of them were kettled for 2 hours under the baking sun only to be released in pairs at 10 minute intervals in the direction of waiting antis. This has happened before and seems a clear disuasory tactic by the old bill.

On one video there's a guy debating with them thru the barriers at the memorial from the opposite side of the protest on the steps. He gets growled at by a couple who are really thick but others engage with him and the hostility abates and turns to an exchange of opinions. Looked hopeful.

According to a fash forum there was a case of friendly fire. They say an anti EDL protestor was heckling them when they were kettled and that a Somali ran up behind him and knocked him out.

At first I thought this was the usual lies but there is a video that shows a quite seriously injured bloke outside the Kettle in no man's land between the 2 opposing groups. If so I hope it's not as serious as it looks.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> I'm sorry but they didn't, some protestors shredded/ripped them to bits, with some of the crowd cheering(there is footage of this, though can't find it right now) this week a young girl danced on the war memorial after she had put a CND banner on it, the right will use this behaviour for ammunition.


 
that is simply a lie.  Events happened just as J Ed described them.  The EDL chucked the flowers, they were picked up and 'redistributed.'  And the video you were incapable of finding was just posted on the thread twice.

The 'negative behaviour' isnt from students, its from the EDL.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

no, the flowers were ripped up and thrown into the air, I watched it happen

notice you didn't mention the girl dancing on the war memorial, is that a lie as well,

pathetic, anti's have to be better than the EDL, its the only way to get popular support.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 10, 2013)

To be fair, from the video it seems like a bit of both is going on. I don't see how the EDL can claim the moral high ground though since they were the ones lobbing the flowers in the first place.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

Belboid has called me a liar, well I won't accept it much more.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

On demo's with big crowds people do things they wouldn't normally do, Belboid doesn't seem to want to acknowledge this.


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## Fedayn (Jun 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Anyone in Sheffield know Lee Rock?
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/2703341759/permalink/10151638587151760/


 
I'm not in Sheffield but I know him through PCS. Can't see the link as it's blocked at work but heard he got attacked after the demo Saturday.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> Belboid has called me a liar, well I won't accept it much more.


 
My only experience of Belboid is that I said something that was true that happened to me and he just started calling me a liar, so even though I don't agree with what you post, we can infer something from that.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 10, 2013)

What do people think about the pacifist flag being put on the war memorial? Personally I find it quite uncomfortable, for the same reason that I found the Sheffield Students' Union selling white poppies (but not red ones) very uncomfortable. The pacifists in WW2 were often basically mouthpieces for Nazi Germany, it's a bit too "fuck those who fight violence with violence" for me.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

Aside from him, you don't agree that the left, such as it is, should robustly challenge radical islam where it infringes on people's liberties, etc.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

J Ed said:


> What do people think about the pacifist flag being put on the war memorial? Personally I find it quite uncomfortable, for the same reason that I found the Sheffield Students' Union selling white poppies (but not red ones) very uncomfortable. *The pacifists in WW2 were often basically mouthpieces for Nazi Germany*, it's a bit too "fuck those who fight violence with violence" for me.


 
J Ed, where do you get that from?, the Peace Pledge Union were terrified of another war like WW1, it may have helped appeasement but it was a common view in the thirties, even the Cambridge Union voted for a motion that said "this house will not fight for king and country", many pacifists were jailed or saw very active service in the Ambulance Service in WW2.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> I'm not in Sheffield but I know him through PCS. Can't see the link as it's blocked at work but heard he got attacked after the demo Saturday.



Yeah, that's what it's about.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> Aside from him, you don't agree that the left, such as it is, should robustly challenge radical islam where it infringes on people's liberties, etc.



Extreme Islamism should be challenged AS WELL as the far right.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> Belboid has called me a liar, well I won't accept it much more.


Stop telling lies then.  You do it repeatedly. On this thread and others.

And I didn't mention the girl on the war memorial because I wasn't there and have no idea about it.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2013)

Favelado said:


> My only experience of Belboid is that I said something that was true that happened to me and he just started calling me a liar, so even though I don't agree with what you post, we can infer something from that.


the only time I recall arguing with you on any thread, is when you were coming out with liberal (ie quite right wing in the circumstances) tosh after the death of Chavez. You eventually admitted (not specifically in response to me, but to the many many people challenging your simplistic belief) that you had been a bit naive. I have no recollection of you talking about anything you did yourself at all.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 10, 2013)

belboid said:


> the only time I recall arguing with you on any thread, is when you were coming out with liberal (ie quite right wing in the circumstances) tosh after the death of Chavez. You eventually admitted (not specifically in response to me, but to the many many people challenging your simplistic belief) that you had been a bit naive. I have no recollection of you talking about anything you did yourself at all.


 
A journalist friend of mine had seen some rather cynical manipulation of the pueblo before the great leader's arrival. You said it was a lie that this had happened and then started to claim the person I knew wasn't a journalist etc etc. I was wrong to a significant extent about Chávez (as are you to a much lesser one) and it was good to learn from some of the excellent stuff that was written by a guy called Ayatollah if I remember correctly.

I think it's possible that you like to shriek "liar" at people who disagree with you. Last word on this is yours though if you want though. I won't further derail thread.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2013)

Favelado said:


> A journalist friend of mine had seen some rather cynical manipulation of the pueblo before the great leader's arrival. You said it was a lie that this had happened and then started to claim the person I knew wasn't a journalist etc etc.


aah, that, yes, I recall.  A quick google said that what she had done as not what you claimed.  She was (iirr, off the top of my head) a trainee not the senior person you presented her as.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

belboid said:


> that is simply a lie. Events happened just as J Ed described them. The EDL chucked the flowers, they were picked up and 'redistributed.' And the video you were incapable of finding was just posted on the thread twice.
> 
> The 'negative behaviour' isnt from students, its from the EDL.


 
Sieg heiling at a war memorial is far more serious than a girl dancing at one, that's for sure, but just because they are the badies and the students are the goodies doesn't mean that mistakes aren't being made and that the perception the public has of the students and counter protestors is automatically a good one.

One rule in Politics is that when arguing a point with someone, it is not so much the winning over of the opponent that counts but the winning over of the people standing around watching the quarrel.

The counter protestors can't afford to take anything for granted and more sus is required on their part.

As for that Video, it's here on the thread and clearly shows someone wrapped in a dodgy flag chucking those flowers.

Can anyone identify what flag it is?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

What colour is it?


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## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> What colour is it?


 
Black with white writing.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Black with white writing.



Some Islamic flag then I think.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

Like one of these?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Standard#Jihadist_black_flag


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## belboid (Jun 10, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Sieg heiling at a war memorial is far more serious than a girl dancing at one, that's for sure, but just because they are the badies and the students are the goodies doesn't mean that mistakes aren't being made and that the perception the public has of the students and counter protestors is automatically a good one.
> 
> One rule in Politics is that when arguing a point with someone, it is not so much the winning over of the opponent that counts but the winning over of the people standing around watching the quarrel.
> 
> ...


Of course opinion matters to an extent, but the effect of a poorly shot video seen by hardly anyone isn't that important. Personally, i'd have left the flowers lying in the pond where the idiots chucked them. But what looks like quite a few people started picking them up and passing, then chucking, them around.  Not just one bloke with an islamist flag, allsorts. From where I was standing it looked like the lass who had the flowers thrown at her started chucking them around, and I couldnt really object to her doing so.  The EDL did give them to her after all.

As to what the flag actually was...no one is actually quite sure. It has arabic writing and the obvious assumption is that it is part of the shahada (ie proper islamist, not a nice mild variety). But no one has actually identified it as such.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 10, 2013)

Since when was it ok for someone to just be milling around at a UAF demo with an Islamist flag unchallenged? I mean never mind the flowers can we have a discussion about this?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

The UAF don't hold an anti-Islamist position afaik.


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> J Ed, where do you get that from?, the Peace Pledge Union were terrified of another war like WW1, it may have helped appeasement but it was a common view in the thirties, even the Cambridge Union voted for a motion that said "this house will not fight for king and country", many pacifists were jailed or saw very active service in the Ambulance Service in WW2.


Certainly elements within the pacifists before war broke out flirted with progerman groups such as the Link and after September 1939 held talks with Mosley about joint opposition to the war. Others were involved with the people's assembly, controlled by the communists, who were in alliance through the Comintern with Hitler


----------



## protesticals (Jun 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> The UAF don't hold an anti-Islamist position afaik.


 
According to Maryam  Namazie they seem to be more than happy to openly associate with Hiz B'Tahrir and other ultra rightwing religious conservatives.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

protesticals said:


> According to Maryam  Namazie they seem to be more than happy to openly associate with Hiz B'Tahrir and other ultra rightwing religious conservatives.



They probably rationalise/justify it because Islamists are commited anti-capitalists. Or something.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

No idea why quoting your post generates a boat load of code.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> No idea why quoting your post generates a boat load of code.


 
Shit you've discovered my transmitter!


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> They probably rationalise/justify it because Islamists are commited anti-capitalists. Or something.


 
The SWP position is _with the islamists sometimes. With the state- never. _Which feeds through to UAF without ever being openly stated. Especially not when they're loudly calling on the state to ban the BNP/edl etc.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Especially not when they're loudly calling on the state to ban the BNP/edl etc.


 
And in cahoots with people who (or perhaps directly responsible for, it remains unclear) get anti-fascists collars felt on the Newcastle demo. They're still yet to distance themselves from Newcastle Unites.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 10, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Since when was it ok for someone to just be milling around at a UAF demo with an Islamist flag unchallenged? I mean never mind the flowers can we have a discussion about this?


 
We already have to be fair - it was at the previous demo, not Saturday's one.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 10, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Are you taking the piss?


 

No? Just genuinely interested.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 10, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> No? Just genuinely interested.


 
You do it if it's necessary - there are no hard and fast rules.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Certainly elements within the pacifists before war broke out flirted with progerman groups such as the Link and after September 1939 held talks with Mosley about joint opposition to the war. Others were involved with the people's assembly, controlled by the communists, who were in alliance through the Comintern with Hitler


 
any sources, links?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> any sources, links?


 
Peace News was full of pro-nazi voices - people like Meyrick Booth for example, a nazi educationalist whose picture still hangs in the national portrait gallery.


----------



## kenny g (Jun 10, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Peace News was full of pro-nazi voices - people like Meyrick Booth for example, a nazi educationalist whose picture still hangs in the national portrait gallery.


 

Hardly a source or a link, merely an assertion.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2013)

Peace News March 26th 1938 - Booth writing in support of the Nazi Anschluss.

This stuff is not in dispute Kenny and was noted at the time: an example from the wikipedia page on the publication 



> The fact that some PN contributors were sup porting appeasement and excusing Nazi actions caused PN contributor David Spreckley to express fears that "in their scramble for peace", they were gaining "some questionable allies".


 
Peace News, 10 November 1939 (p. 9), quoted in Martin Ceadel, Semi-Detached Idealists:the British Peace Movement and International Relations, 1854-1945 Oxford University Press, 2000 (p. 398).


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 10, 2013)

Got to hope a few of the mosque-burners get some stiff sentences too - any hint of unequal justice would give rise to problems, wouldn't it? Not that the would-be Dewsbury attackers don't deserve their 18 years.

TR is a prick for gloating in court too, it's like he's deliberately goading these fucks into carrying out attacks, stirring shit. People with nothing to do with this crap will end up getting hurt.


----------



## Corax (Jun 10, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Since when was it ok for someone to just be milling around at a UAF demo with an Islamist flag unchallenged? I mean never mind the flowers can we have a discussion about this?


Was it definitely an 'islamist' flag?

As far as I saw in the video it wasn't the 'black standard' that was linked to earlier - but it was similar in being black with white arabic text on it. Are these universally an islamist/jihadi thing?

If so, then it *should* have been challenged if anyone realised. But tbh I certainly wouldn't have done, and although I don't like to judge others by my own levels of ignorance I nonetheless think it's possible that none there other than the guy holding it and his mates knew it was either.

ETA:

Uncertainty removed - the link took me to this flag:







But earlier in the wiki article is this image:


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 10, 2013)

Fuck, It is the black flag of Jihad (pause video at 0.06s)



Only 6000 views so far on this other video posted up before. 1000 a day. Not to mention the thousands who will have viewed it on FB as the EDL publicise it and have a field day.

Well done UAF, you are helping to recruit for the EDL. They need you. Sort out your fucking stewarding.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2013)

> Well done UAF, you are helping to recruit for the EDL. They need you. Sort out your fucking stewarding.


 

and its fellow travellers on here, perhaps they should show some humility and be aware that others have different views but can back them up

when are people going to learn, social media changes the game for all sides.


----------



## Corax (Jun 10, 2013)

treelover said:


> *and its fellow travellers on here,* perhaps they should show some humility and be aware that others have different views but can back them up
> 
> when are people going to learn, social media changes the game for all sides.


 
I'm not sure there are many on here with a UAF fanclub badge tbh?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 10, 2013)

UAF are pricks.

but i guess im UAF as i go on counter demos etc.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2013)

UAF isn't synonymous with counter demo.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 10, 2013)

Well yeah i know that, but that's how many people see it. commies etc


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Well done UAF, you are helping to recruit for the EDL. They need you. Sort out your fucking stewarding.[/media]


How would you actually do that?  Go and grab the flag?  Demand said people leave the demo? And what do you do if they tell you to fuck off, they have as much right to be there as you do? (which they undoubtedly would do).  You physically remove them?  Thus giving credence to the EDL's campaign against 'extremist' muslims?  You can see the problem, I'm sure.

And, btw, there is no such thing as 'the black flag of Jihad.'  There are flags for various groups. Have you identified which?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 10, 2013)

Corax said:


> Was it definitely an 'islamist' flag?
> 
> As far as I saw in the video it wasn't the 'black standard' that was linked to earlier - but it was similar in being black with white arabic text on it. Are these universally an islamist/jihadi thing?
> 
> ...


 
 'Prism whistle' post.
 Calling Fort Meade....


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 11, 2013)

treelover said:


> any sources, links?


Most easily accessible  would be Stephen dorril's book Blackshirt.
Thomas linehams book on British fascism is also good.
But as butchers says none of thus is news to anyone with any knowledge of the period.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> UAF isn't synonymous with counter demo.


 

Must have said this many times. "The Myth Of The UAF", that the UAF is synomymous with counter demo is upheld by 3 groups:

1) The UAF - stupendously arrogant vanguardism

2) The EDL and apologists - A single "enemy" is simple to hate, it also aids to smear the mistakes of the UAF on to all opponents

3) The media, still often astonishingly stupid and simplistic in covering a subject (EDL) that they have had 4 years to brush up on.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

SO it was fucking UAF twats throwing war memorial flowers around. Really impressive stuff!


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> You physically remove them? Thus giving credence to the EDL's campaign against 'extremist' muslims? You can see the problem, I'm sure.


I really dont see the problem, surely if give credence to the EDL if you DONT remove them, not that the thought would enter the UAFs head.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 11, 2013)

I am waited with baited breath for the physical removal of jihadist supporters by anti UAF anti fascists


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> I really dont see the problem, surely if give credence to the EDL if you DONT remove them, not that the thought would enter the UAFs head.


so, how do you remove them?  You gonna get into a fight on the demo?  Or do you think they will simply politely acquiesce to your request?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

It isn't a case of removing them. If UAF's message was opposing Nationalism AND Extreme Islamism, Islamists may not feel inclined to join the demonstration in the first place.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> It isn't a case of removing them. If the UAF's message was opposing Nationalism AND Extreme Islamism, Islamists may not feel inclined to join the demonstration in the first place.


 
You'll have to put this to them


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

The39thStep said:
			
		

> You'll have to put this to them



I wouldn't join a UAF demo.


----------



## cesare (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I wouldn't join a UAF demo.


Don't the UAF just decide whatever demo is their demo and try and organise it accordingly?


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> It isn't a case of removing them. If UAF's message was opposing Nationalism AND Extreme Islamism, Islamists may not feel inclined to join the demonstration in the first place.


UAF is anti-fascist, not anti-'extremist', so there is no reason for it to oppose both.  I don't believe the two are equivalent.  And I can well imagine some 'extremist' group calling a demo AS WELL as UAF, so what then?

You would actually have to physically remove the new 'enemy,' there'd be no getting around it.  And as soon as the Islamic 'extremists' had been dealt with, the demand would be to remove the white lefty extremists, and so on and so forth.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

cesare said:
			
		

> Don't the UAF just decide whatever demo is their demo and try and organise it accordingly?



Well they tend to liaise with the old bill and have their demo in a completely different place to where there's any fash. But yeah, they are pretty good at pulling several groups together and having it under their banner, but it's largely 'official' types; labour activists, the unions etc.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I wouldn't join a UAF demo.


I trust you see how you are contradicting yourself


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> UAF is anti-fascist, not anti-'extremist', so there is no reason for it to oppose both.  I don't believe the two are equivalent.  And I can well imagine some 'extremist' group calling a demo AS WELL as UAF, so what then?
> 
> You would actually have to physically remove the new 'enemy,' there'd be no getting around it.  And as soon as the Islamic 'extremists' had been dealt with, the demand would be to remove the white lefty extremists, and so on and so forth.



If you don't see Islamists as being as bad as the fash then you've got serious problems with your analysis.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> I trust you see how you are contradicting yourself



How?


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well they tend to liaise with the old bill and have their demo in a completely different place to where there's any fash. But yeah, they are pretty good at pulling several groups together and having it under their banner, but it's largely 'official' types; labour activists, the unions etc.


Last weeks demo where this 'jihadist' turned up was a UAF demo.  you'd have refused to turn up then?  Or would you have gone 'naah, this isnt really a UAF demo so its okay' - in which case your argument that jihadists wouldnt turn up if UAF said they weren't welcome wouldn't really apply either.  you cant have it both ways


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> If you don't see Islamists as being as bad as the fash then you've got serious problems with your analysis.


Unlike you, I'm not a political moralist, I'm a Marxist.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> It isn't a case of removing them. *If UAF's message was opposing Nationalism AND Extreme Islamism*, Islamists may not feel inclined to join the demonstration in the first place.


 
But quite clearly, it isn't, and as long as they retain a simplistic

my enemy's enemy is my friend​ 
perspective, that isn't going to change. Jihadists are welcome, Anti-Fash anarchists (for example) are not


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> UAF is anti-fascist, not anti-'extremist', so there is no reason for it to oppose both. I don't believe the two are equivalent. And I can well imagine some 'extremist' group calling a demo AS WELL as UAF, so what then?
> 
> *You would actually have to physically remove the new 'enemy,*' there'd be no getting around it. And as soon as the Islamic 'extremists' had been dealt with, the demand would be to remove the white lefty extremists, and so on and so forth.


 
Either that or get the cops to do it for you, eh?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:
			
		

> Either that or get the cops to do it for you, eh?



Completely agree.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> Unlike you, I'm not a political moralist, I'm a Marxist.



I'm not a 'moralist'. I just recognise that Muslim extremists are as bad as British ones.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> Either that or get the cops to do it for you, eh?


Citizen is the one wanting them removed, ask him, not me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> UAF is anti-fascist, not anti-'extremist', so there is no reason for it to oppose both. I don't believe the two are equivalent. And I can well imagine some 'extremist' group calling a demo AS WELL as UAF, so what then?
> 
> You would actually have to physically remove the new 'enemy,' there'd be no getting around it. And as soon as the Islamic 'extremists' had been dealt with, the demand would be to remove the white lefty extremists, and so on and so forth.


 
you're right. the two aren't equivalent. after all, fascists have never bombed transport links like stations have they? they never bombed bologna like jihadis never bombed madrid or london. jihadis never cut people down in the street like racists did stephen lawrence, do they? fucking get over yourself you daft twat


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm not a 'moralist'. I just recognise that Muslim extremists are as bad as British ones.


He says, moralistically.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> Last weeks demo where this 'jihadist' turned up was a UAF demo.  you'd have refused to turn up then?  Or would you have gone 'naah, this isnt really a UAF demo so its okay' - in which case your argument that jihadists wouldnt turn up if UAF said they weren't welcome wouldn't really apply either.  you cant have it both ways



I dont understand your point. UAF demos are well publicised and their position made clear (including which anti fascists are unwelcome which includes me btw).


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> Citizen is the one wanting them removed, ask him, not me.



Now who's the fucking liar?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

cesare said:


> Don't the UAF just decide whatever demo is their demo and try and organise it accordingly?


 
even if it was initially someone else's


----------



## cesare (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> even if it was initially someone else's


Exactly


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you're right. the two aren't equivalent. after all, fascists have never bombed transport links like stations have they? they never bombed bologna like jihadis never bombed madrid or london. jihadis never cut people down in the street like racists did stephen lawrence, do they? fucking get over yourself you daft twat


off you go to set up the Anti-Extermist League with Citizen then.  Otherwise you are just sound and fury.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> He says, moralistically.



Well your stance against fascists is moralistic too, no?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> off you go to set up the Anti-Extermist League with Citizen then. Otherwise you are just sound and fury.


every group i have been involved with over the past decade has opposed both jihadis and fascists. you're not even 'sound and fury', just the sound of a loose fart.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Now who's the fucking liar?


You


Citizen66 said:


> I dont understand your point. UAF demos are well publicised and their position made clear (including which anti fascists are unwelcome which includes me btw).


I've never seen UAF taking down anarcho flags etc, nor seen them saying or implying even that anarchos aren't welcome. 

You dont think  'jihadists' should be on anti-fascist demos - how _are_ you going to stop them?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well your stance against fascists is moralistic too, no?


 
no, it is simply opportunistick


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> Citizen is the one wanting them removed, ask him, not me.


 
That would appear to be an acknowledgement that you *don't* want them removed.

In which case, any guff about

Oh, we didn't know who they were​ 
or

There was no effective way of removing them without disrupting and splitting the demo​ 
is just hot air...

Which is it?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> I am waited with baited breath for the physical removal of jihadist supporters by anti UAF anti fascists


 

maggots or stale bread?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> You
> 
> I've never seen UAF taking down anarcho flags etc, nor seen them saying or implying even that anarchos aren't welcome.
> 
> You dont think 'jihadists' should be on anti-fascist demos - how _are_ you going to stop them?


 
i have seen weyman bennett call an anarchist woman a racist for disagreeing with him in the church hall on bethnal green road.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well your stance against fascists is moralistic too, no?


No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism.  It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented.  Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i have seen weyman bennett call an anarchist woman a racist for disagreeing with him in the church hall on bethnal green road.


so what?  Thats not banning her from attendance, is it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism. It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented. Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.


 
it's back to the drawing board for you then. when you post up stuff about your thought processes it is surprisingly unimpressive.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> You
> 
> I've never seen UAF taking down anarcho flags etc, nor seen them saying or implying even that anarchos aren't welcome.
> 
> You dont think  'jihadists' should be on anti-fascist demos - how are you going to stop them?



So you can make it clear you oppose the edl but not islam4uk? why don't Islam4UK join an edl demo?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism.  It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented.  Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.



You think Islamists are paragons of class struggle?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> so what? Thats not banning her from attendance, is it?


 
so weyman bennett calling someone a racist without the slightest justification - he wanted the seats at the meeting laid out in a lecture style, she - like i - wanted a big circle - is in your view absolutely ok and above board. what a fucking little muppet you are.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> That would appear to be an acknowledgement that you *don't* want them removed.
> 
> In which case, any guff about
> 
> ...


neither


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> so what? Thats not banning her from attendance, is it?


 
it does imply that he didn't really welcome her doesn't it


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> So you can make it clear you oppose the edl but not islam4uk? why don't Islam4UK join an edl demo?





Citizen66 said:


> You think Islamists are paragons of class struggle?


you're not making any sense.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> so weyman bennett calling someone a racist without the slightest justification - he wanted the seats at the meeting laid out in a lecture style, she - like i - wanted a big circle - is in your view absolutely ok and above board. what a fucking little muppet you are.


none of which has any connection whatsoever with what we were discussing.  We all know you dont like Weyman Bennett already, this adds nothing.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism.  It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented.  Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.



Perhaps not in leafy middle class land. But if you don't think they have an affect in Muslim working class communities you're a fucking idiot.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> it does imply that he didn't really welcome her doesn't it


so what.  Not liking someone/something isnt the same as stopping them.  Once again, you fall immediately into moralism.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Perhaps not in leafy middle class land. But if you don't think they have an affect in Muslim working class communities you're a fucking idiot.


well in you stride then, brave whitey moralist, you go and save muslim communities.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I've never seen UAF taking down anarcho flags etc, nor seen them saying or implying even that anarchos aren't welcome


 
So you haven't read earlier in this thread (or possibly a different one) where someone (Citizen66 ?) recalled how UAF organisers had threatened to have anti-fash anarchists arrested if they showed up?

(Someone with a better memory for detail better help me out here )



belboid said:


> *You dont think 'jihadists' should be on anti-fascist demos* - how _are_ you going to stop them?


 
Whereas you apparently do - if not say so explicitly and unequivocally.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> none of which has any connection whatsoever with what we were discussing. We all know you dont like Weyman Bennett already, this adds nothing.


we all know you have no political analysis on the subject worth discussing, as you continue to demonstrate almost minute by minute.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> well in you stride then, brave whitey moralist, you go and save muslim communities.



Well you obviously don't give a shit about them or you wouldn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamists.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> so what. Not liking someone/something isnt the same as stopping them. Once again, you fall immediately into moralism.


 
you don't read your own fucking posts. do you do this deliberately or is your apparent quest for muppetry unconscious?

see your post 13106 where you say you are unaware of uaf making anarchists feel unwelcome


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:
			
		

> So you haven't read earlier in this thread (or possibly a different one) where someone (Citizen66 ?) recalled how UAF organisers had threatened to have anti-fash anarchists arrested if they showed up?
> 
> (Someone with a better memory for detail better help me out here )
> 
> Whereas you apparently do - if not say so explicitly and unequivocally.



It was the recent Newcastle Unites demo. And they carried out their threat (although strongly deny it).


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 11, 2013)

cesare said:


> Don't the UAF just decide whatever demo is their demo and try and organise it accordingly?


 

in all the demos ive been on UAF comply with plod etc whilst 'independent militants' stay out of kettles cordons etc and move around.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well you obviously don't give a shit about them or you wouldn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamists.


 
he'll stand close to anyone whose mates have bombs. perhaps we've got him wrong and it's just a heightened sense of self-preservation which leads belboid to cosy up to the jihadis.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays

http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3034-nu070613


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> So you haven't read earlier in this thread (or possibly a different one) where someone (Citizen66 ?) recalled how UAF organisers had threatened to have anti-fash anarchists arrested if they showed up?
> 
> (Someone with a better memory for detail better help me out here )


I said I haven't seen it, and I haven't. What else can I say? We got one claim earlier in the thread that it has happened, it clearly isnt commonplace or we'd have had lots more claims. We havent.



> Whereas you apparently do - if not say so explicitly and unequivocally.


I don't think they can effectively be stopped. You haven't come up with any way of doing so. I'd much rather they werent there, but I don't think we can stop them any more than we can stop the wet moralist christian liberals (who are probably a bigger threat to the british working class than thew jihadists) with their flags.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 11, 2013)

if UAF find themselves with jihadis amongst their number it could well be by accident as folk  often turn up and stand with biggest crowd. it is up to them to remove them. however, if jihadis stood amongst militants (ie, anarchos, etc) outside of UAF group i doubt they would be asked to stick around long.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well you obviously don't give a shit about them or you wouldn't stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamists.


I dont.  And, as you've started down the making things up line, you are clearly out of argument


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I said I haven't seen it, and I haven't. What else can I say? We got one claim earlier in the thread that it has happened, it clearly isnt commonplace or we'd have had lots more claims. We havent.
> 
> 
> I don't think they can effectively be stopped. You haven't come up with any way of doing so. I'd much rather they werent there, but I don't think we can stop them any more than we can stop the wet moralist christian liberals (who are probably a bigger threat to the british working class than thew jihadists) with their flags.


 
you can't stop them perhaps, but i have yet to see a jihadi turn out to an anarchist anti-fascist event. it's because your lot have a fucking decade of snuggling up to all manner of anti-working class jihadis that they hang about with your mob on demos. we don't - so they don't.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> It was the recent Newcastle Unites demo. And they carried out their threat (although strongly deny it).


 
Can't imagine why that would make anyone feel unwelcome


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you don't read your own fucking posts. do you do this deliberately or is your apparent quest for muppetry unconscious?
> 
> see your post 13106 where you say you are unaware of uaf making anarchists feel unwelcome


aah, so sorry. WB having an argument with someone clearly affects the entire anarchist scene.  Sorry you are so sensitive.  It doesnt really look like you were stopped from attending tho.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> he'll stand close to anyone whose mates have bombs. perhaps we've got him wrong and it's just a heightened sense of self-preservation which leads belboid to cosy up to the jihadis.


ohh the hypocrisy of the little boy with his irish daydreams


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I dont. And, as you've started down the making things up line, you are clearly out of argument


 
it'd be nice to see you produce something resembling an argument.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> ohh the hypocrisy of the little boy with his irish daydreams


 
see my post 13129.


----------



## cesare (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> So you haven't read earlier in this thread (or possibly a different one) where someone (Citizen66 ?) recalled how UAF organisers had threatened to have anti-fash anarchists arrested if they showed up?
> 
> (Someone with a better memory for detail better help me out here )
> 
> ...


You mean what happened in Newcastle? http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/labourtrade-unions/3016-nu190513


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> aah, so sorry. WB having an argument with someone clearly affects the entire anarchist scene. Sorry you are so sensitive. It doesnt really look like you were stopped from attending tho.


 
you're like a fish, wriggling away on a hook.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

cesare said:


> You mean what happened in Newcastle? http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/labourtrade-unions/3016-nu190513


 
Yes, that's what I meant.

Lucky that you and Citizen66 have better memories than I for detail


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> andysays
> 
> http://www.revolutionarycommunist.org/index.php/editorial-and-welcome/3034-nu070613


so, the strongly denied Newcastle events.

I've no idea if this is true or not, I'd certainly utterly condemn it if so.But two wrongs dont make a right


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2013)

we had this yet? Tommy utterly condemns attacks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22852371


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you're like a fish, wriggling away on a hook.


No, still here <waves>


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> No, still here <waves>


 
fuck, but you're stupid. do you think fish on hooks a) magically disappear or b) hang about wriggling?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> we had this yet? Tommy utterly condemns attacks
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22852371


 
wrong-footing the likes of the uaf again


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

'wriggling away' usually implies 'away' - but I'm glad to see you are concentrating obn the important things.  Admittedly, you are much better at pedantry than you are at political thought.

Still waiting for anyone to come back and give a practical way of removing the jihadists.  All we've had so far is 'they wouldnt want to come if you did it properly' which is kinda laughable


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> wrong-footing the likes of the uaf again


you think?  I rather doubt it, its a rather obvious retort.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> 'wriggling away' usually implies 'away' - but I'm glad to see you are concentrating obn the important things. Admittedly, you are much better at pedantry than you are at political thought.
> 
> Still waiting for anyone to come back and give a practical way of removing the jihadists. All we've had so far is 'they wouldnt want to come if you did it properly' which is kinda laughable


 
telling them to fuck off might be a good start. after all, unwelcome guests may not know they're unwelcome until they're told to piss off.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you're like a fish, wriggling away on a hook.


 
belboid, earlier










ETA: link not working. Shame, it was a lovely song


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> we had this yet? Tommy utterly condemns attacks
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22852371


 
The BBC gave him an absurdly easy ride and allowed him to present himself as reasonable and peaceful.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> so, how do you remove them? You gonna get into a fight on the demo? Or do you think they will simply politely acquiesce to your request?



So if you were on a demo for Gay rights and a group joined and started hoisting an EDL banner you would happily stand by them?


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> telling them to fuck off might be a good start. after all, unwelcome guests may not know they're unwelcome until they're told to piss off.


and when they refuse.....


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> So if you were on a demo for Gay rights and a group joined and started hoisting an EDL banner you would happily stand by them?


read the whole discussion, that doesnt actually follow at all


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> and when they refuse.....


 
why not try _making them go_. or are the serried ranks of the uaf unable to get rid of a few scum?


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> and when they refuse.....


 
But the point is that they're not unwelcome, or at least that no one from the UAF has had the political courage to tell them they're unwelcome.

The rest is disingenuous bollocks


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> so, how do you remove them? You gonna get into a fight on the demo? Or do you think they will simply politely acquiesce to your request?


 
there's always an excuse for you to hang about with jihadis isn't there. in this case it's 'we can't be nasty to them so we'll have to let them hang about with us'.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> why not try _making them go_. or are the serried ranks of the uaf unable to get rid of a few scum?


so you DO mean physically remove them. Took you enough bloody time to say so!

On an anti-edl demo, I think that would probably be a tactical mistake.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> so you DO mean physically remove them. Took you enough bloody time to say so!
> 
> On an anti-edl demo, I think that would probably be a tactical mistake.


 
it's a fucking tactical mistake for you to let them near you on an anti-edl demo. because it's proof that you DO like jihadis, or you wouldn't accept them on your demonstration.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> so you DO mean physically remove them. Took you enough bloody time to say so!
> 
> On an anti-edl demo, I think that would probably be a tactical mistake.


 
Whereas allowing/encouraging them to be involved/associated is what, strategically?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> so, the strongly denied Newcastle events.
> 
> I've no idea if this is true or not, I'd certainly utterly condemn it if so.But two wrongs dont make a right



The arrests happened. UAF haven't condemned the arrests. Funny that.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> But the point is that they're not unwelcome, or at least that no one from the UAF has had the political courage to tell them they're unwelcome.
> 
> The rest is disingenuous bollocks


As pointed out many aeons ago, they _were_ told to fuck off from the front of the demo with their flag.  But I dont think they could effectively be completely stopped. The clip this discussion has all flowed from shows one person waving a flag around none of us have been able to really identify (altho it very probably is a jihadist flag).  Most of the people around it at the time wouldn't even have been able to see it, still less know what it was. You cant expect people who cant see a flag to remove it.

And, frankly, having a thousand white folks standing around opposing the EDL is a pretty bloody good way of undercutting the jihadists nonsense that all whiteys want to see muslims burn in hell. As a way of undermining islamism, it seems far more successful than tying to force a couple of people of a demo.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> it's a fucking tactical mistake for you to let them near you on an anti-edl demo. because it's proof that you DO like jihadis, or you wouldn't accept them on your demonstration.


I don't like treelover.  I wouldn't dream of stopping him from attending a demo.  Logic fail.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> The arrests happened. UAF haven't condemned the arrests. Funny that.


Well, they are completely wrong for failing to condemn them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> As pointed out many aeons ago, they _were_ told to fuck off from the front of the demo with their flag. But I dont think they could effectively be completely stopped. The clip this discussion has all flowed from shows one person waving a flag around none of us have been able to really identify (altho it very probably is a jihadist flag). Most of the people around it at the time wouldn't even have been able to see it, still less know what it was. You cant expect people who cant see a flag to remove it.
> 
> And, frankly, having a thousand white folks standing around opposing the EDL is a pretty bloody good way of undercutting the jihadists nonsense that all whiteys want to see muslims burn in hell. As a way of undermining islamism, it seems far more successful than tying to force a couple of people of a demo.


no, what it means to the islamists is two lots of white people don't like each other. what it means to you is, in their opinion, irrelevant.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I don't like treelover. I wouldn't dream of stopping him from attending a demo. Logic fail.


 
treelover doesn't - to the best of my knowledge - have mates who go about bombing people or chopping their heads off while claiming a religious motivation.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no, what it means to the islamists is two lots of white people don't like each other. what it means to you is, in their opinion, irrelevant.


who cares about them?  It's the people they might influence that I care about, the ones they might influence.  You dont think that if they were thrown off they would be using out of context video links to 'prove' that all whiteys hate all muslims?


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> treelover doesn't - to the best of my knowledge - have mates who go about bombing people or chopping their heads off while claiming a religious motivation.


non sequitur.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> who cares about them? It's the people they might influence that I care about, the ones they might influence. You dont think that if they were thrown off they would be using out of context video links to 'prove' that all whiteys hate all muslims?


 
So, you tolerate them because otherwise they'd say nasty things about you, things which you are apparently not able to refute.

Political cowardice writ large...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> who cares about them? It's the people they might influence that I care about, the ones they might influence. You dont think that if they were thrown off they would be using out of context video links to 'prove' that all whiteys hate all muslims?


 
there's always a good reason for you to do nothing, isn't there


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> non sequitur.


 
you know what's a fucking non sequitur? it's your fuckwitted claim that treelover is equivalent to a load of people with an anti-working class religious ideology


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> So, you tolerate them because otherwise they'd say nasty things about you, things which you are apparently not able to refute.
> 
> Political cowardice writ large...


no, its about not being a moralist.  Its about trying to have an effective action rather than just one that makes you feel better about yourself.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> no, its about not being a moralist. Its about trying to have an effective action rather than just one that makes you feel better about yourself.


 
which begs the question, if you want an effective action what the fuck are you doing with the uaf in the first place?


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you know what's a fucking non sequitur? it's your fuckwitted claim that treelover is equivalent to a load of people with an anti-working class religious ideology


Fortunately, there was no such claim.  i just pointed out how your attempt at an argument made no sense. your argument that showed your simplistic morality based politics - "you DO like jihadis, or you wouldn't accept them on your demonstration." 

'Liking' or not liking people, or even ideologies, is not the point.


----------



## cesare (Jun 11, 2013)

EDL against all Muslims but particularly Islamists. UAF seemingly for all Muslims and also Islamists. That's the message being conveyed by not ejecting Islamists.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> which begs the question, if you want an effective action what the fuck are you doing with the uaf in the first place?


Well, last saturday, UAf just happened to be i the right spot.  Everyone was 'with' them in that sense (and not particularly with them, at the same time - just i the same space at the same moment).  Saturday just gone, I'd have ignored their demo and gone to Barkers Pool again.  Not sure what your point is.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> Fortunately, there was no such claim. i just pointed out how your attempt at an argument made no sense. your argument that showed your simplistic morality based politics - "you DO like jihadis, or you wouldn't accept them on your demonstration."
> 
> 'Liking' or not liking people, or even ideologies, is not the point.


the problem you face when denying what you've said is that on a message board like this one your posts remain in black and white for people to read. you equated treelover and jihadis. you can't deny it, it's up there in your post 13165


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> Well, last saturday, UAf just happened to be i the right spot. Everyone was 'with' them in that sense (and not particularly with them, at the same time - just i the same space at the same moment). Saturday just gone, I'd have ignored their demo and gone to Barkers Pool again. Not sure what your point is.


by 'the right spot' i suppose you mean 'behind a line of plod listening to bob marley on whitehall while the business was being done down the road'.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> no, its about not being a *moralist*. Its about trying to have an effective action rather than just one that makes you feel better about yourself.


 
You seem to quite like that word, don't you? It must be one you've got from your Big Book of Mindless Trot Retorts (2013 edition)

I'm not pulling you up on political cowardice because it's morally bad, but because it's strategically counter-productive. Hence my earlier post which you seem to have overlooked:



andysays said:


> Whereas allowing/encouraging them to be involved/associated is what, strategically?


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

cesare said:


> EDL against all Muslims but particularly Islamists. UAF seemingly for all Muslims and also Islamists. That's the message being conveyed by not ejecting Islamists.


So you'd be for the physical ejection of 'islamists'  Always?  How about if they arent waving big flags about, but have a dodgy looking badge?  Should _they_ be ejected? I'm really not at all sure how this can work out in practise.  Which is my point,

All looney bombers were condemned by speaker after speaker. It was made clear that no one considered Lee Rigby a 'legitimate target.' 'jihadism' was fairly clearly verbally opposed.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> which begs the question, if you want an effective action what the fuck are you doing with the uaf in the first place?


----------



## cesare (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> So you'd be for the physical ejection of 'islamists'  Always?  How about if they arent waving big flags about, but have a dodgy looking badge?  Should _they_ be ejected? I'm really not at all sure how this can work out in practise.  Which is my point,
> 
> All looney bombers were condemned by speaker after speaker. It was made clear that no one considered Lee Rigby a 'legitimate target.' 'jihadism' was fairly clearly verbally opposed.


If I saw someone with (for example) a black standard near me, I'd suggest they pissed off - yes.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> the problem you face when denying what you've said is that on a message board like this one your posts remain in black and white for people to read. you equated treelover and jihadis. you can't deny it, it's up there in your post 13165


oh dear, you really dont get logic do you?  You argued that I liked Group A because I let them do Thing B.  The explicit nature of A and B are both wholly irrelevant to your claim.  Thus I was not comparing treelover and jihadi's, except in their ability to attend demonstrations.  'Jihadis breathe oxygen.' 'treelover breathes oxygen' - according to your 'argument' that means that treelover is a jihadi.  It doesnt.


Pickman's model said:


> by 'the right spot' i suppose you mean 'behind a line of plod listening to bob marley on whitehall while the business was being done down the road'.


no.  For one thing, there isnt a whitehall in Sheffield.  For another, if you'd actually read the thread you'd know that they actually happened to be in the right pace at the right time for once.  An accident I'm sure, but they happen from time to time.


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2013)

Opposing things because you don't like them is actually quite a good thing to do - and it doesn't preclude taking on boards tactical or strategic considerations - in fact it demands that you do so if you wish to make your opposition meaningful. Daft argument.


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> You seem to quite like that word, don't you? It must be one you've got from your Big Book of Mindless Trot Retorts (2013 edition)
> 
> I'm not pulling you up on political cowardice because it's morally bad, but because it's strategically counter-productive. Hence my earlier post which you seem to have overlooked:


sorry, missed that before. I call a lot of this opposition moralist, because it simply _is_ moralist.  Its about what an individual does or doesnt like.  And I'll probably agree with that dislike, but I dont put my own personal opinions above all else.  If only people I politically approved of were allowed on a demo, it'd be a fucking small demo.

As to the latter, I answered that in 13164 - a massive demo of mainly white folk defending muslims is a far better way of undermining jihadists than throwing them off a demo would be.


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## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> That would appear to be an acknowledgement that you *don't* want them removed.
> 
> In which case, any guff about
> 
> ...


 
This, and he had the cheek to call me a liar, then again for Marxists like Belboid, the end justifies the means so accusing someone of potential racism,etc is just a tactic to be used or discarded, this lack of morality or denial of it is why I have kept way from such ideology.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> oh dear, you really dont get logic do you? You argued that I liked Group A because I let them do Thing B. The explicit nature of A and B are both wholly irrelevant to your claim. Thus I was not comparing treelover and jihadi's, except in their ability to attend demonstrations. 'Jihadis breathe oxygen.' 'treelover breathes oxygen' - according to your 'argument' that means that treelover is a jihadi. It doesnt.
> 
> no. For one thing, there isnt a whitehall in Sheffield. For another, if you'd actually read the thread you'd know that they actually happened to be in the right pace at the right time for once. An accident I'm sure, but they happen from time to time.


 
1) pedantry alive and well i see

2) as you may recall the other saturday there was a little to-do in london to which 'central london edl' said on twitter they were turning up. it was to that i was referring


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> sorry, missed that before. I call a lot of this opposition moralist, because it simply _is_ moralist. Its about what an individual does or doesnt like. And I'll probably agree with that dislike, but I dont put my own personal opinions above all else. If only people I politically approved of were allowed on a demo, it'd be a fucking small demo.
> 
> As to the latter, I answered that in 13164 - a massive demo of mainly white folk defending muslims is a far better way of undermining jihadists than throwing them off a demo would be.


 
it's certainly a much better way of defending jihadists, which is objectively what you were doing.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Opposing things because you don't like them is actually quite a good thing to do - and it doesn't preclude taking on boards tactical or strategic considerations - in fact it demands that you do so if you wish to make your opposition meaningful. Daft argument.


well, you dont oppose things because you do like them. But the 'liking' is not the point, its about what will make a difference.  Thus I'll work alongside trots, anarchos, reformists and liberals on different campaigns, as the occasion demands.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> So you'd be for the physical ejection of 'islamists' Always? How about if they arent waving big flags about, but have a dodgy looking badge? Should _they_ be ejected? I'm really not at all sure how this can work out in practise. Which is my point,
> 
> All looney bombers were condemned by speaker after speaker. It was made clear that no one considered Lee Rigby a 'legitimate target.' 'jihadism' was fairly clearly verbally opposed.


 
looney bombers? are they bombers because they're mentally ill or because they're adherents of a certain form of islamism?


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> 1) pedantry alive and well i see


pot fucking kettle!

And, its logic dear, not pedantry. Your argument was fallacious


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> pot fucking kettle!
> 
> And, its logic dear, not pedantry. Your argument was fallacious


your argument is phallacious, in that it shows you to be something of a prick.


----------



## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I said I haven't seen it, and I haven't. What else can I say? We got one claim earlier in the thread that it has happened, it clearly isnt commonplace or we'd have had lots more claims. We havent.
> 
> 
> I don't think they can effectively be stopped. You haven't come up with any way of doing so. I'd much rather they werent there, but I don't think we can stop them* any more than we can stop the wet moralist christian liberals (who are probably a bigger threat to the british working class than thew jihadists*) with their flags.


 
Why are you in LU then?, you really are exposing yourself now...


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

treelover said:


> Why are you in LU then?, you really are exposing yourself now...


eh?  i havent noticed any wet christian liberals in LU. You're making even less sense than normal


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> But the point is that they're not unwelcome, or at least that no one from the UAF has had the political courage to tell them they're unwelcome.
> 
> The rest is disingenuous bollocks


 

I think it is clearly the former. They are all perfectly welcome at UAF functions because the SWP thinks that gay rights are '' a shibboleth'' and are prepared to ignore any actions by Islamists due to their absurd second campism.


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

BBC giving TR another platform... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22852764


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> well, you dont oppose things because you do like them. But the 'liking' is not the point, its about what will make a difference. Thus I'll work alongside trots, anarchos, reformists and liberals on different campaigns, as the occasion demands.


 
Well surely you should then make the argument(s) on grounds of effectiveness or on what potential scenarios are possible etc, not on dismissing opposition because it's based on moralism. Every person who was there was there out of some sense of moralism - and as said, that doesn't preclude thinking and acting strategically, rather it demands it.

UAF have severely limited their possible range of strategic or tactical action in regards to fundies being on their demos and being very visible by narrowing down their focus and repeated blind-eyeism - and even if they hadn't they would be unable to productively carry through any other activity. Which mean opposition is going to have to come from outside of their ranks and from hard work to isolate the idiots before the demos. The jihadis are going to say what you suggest whatever happens - if they're removed it's a victory for them if they aren't it's a victory for them, so their strategic interests should not the #1 priority.


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## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

> eh? i havent noticed any wet christian liberals in LU. You're making even less sense than normal


 

No, but the idea of LU is to be a broad based party which will include such people, they will know the contempt you have for them and others.


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## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2013)

J Ed said:


> BBC giving TR another platform... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22852764


 
It's kicking off on Twitter, he was given an easy ride and nobody challanged his bonkers made up FACTS from what i have read.


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> read the whole discussion, that doesnt actually follow at all


 

Of course it follows. I don;t want the EDL on a march for gay rights (possibly with islamists counter demonstrating), I wouldn't want to demonstrate against the EDL with Homophobes, wife beaters or people who demand the death penalty for apostacy. It seems the UAF don't mind the latter.




belboid said:


> As pointed out many aeons ago, they _were_ told to fuck off from the front of the demo with their flag. But I dont think they could effectively be completely stopped. The clip this discussion has all flowed from shows one person waving a flag around none of us have been able to really identify (altho it very probably is a jihadist flag). Most of the people around it at the time wouldn't even have been able to see it, still less know what it was. You cant expect people who cant see a flag to remove it.
> 
> And, frankly, having a thousand white folks standing around opposing the EDL is a pretty bloody good way of undercutting the jihadists nonsense that all whiteys want to see muslims burn in hell. As a way of undermining islamism, it seems far more successful than tying to force a couple of people of a demo.


 
And yet the Jihadists are constantly recruiting more people.


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Well surely you should then make the argument(s) on grounds of effectiveness or on what potential scenarios are possible etc, not on dismissing opposition because it's based on moralism. Every person who was there was there out of some sense of moralism - and as said, that doesn't preclude thinking and acting strategically, rather it demands it.
> 
> UAF have severely limited their possible range of strategic or tactical action in regards to fundies being on their demos and being very visible by narrowing down their focus and repeated blind-eyeism - and even if they hadn't they would be unable to productively carry through any other activity. Which mean opposition is going to have to come from outside of their ranks and from hard work to isolate the idiots before the demos. The jihadis are going to say what you suggest whatever happens - if they're removed it's a victory for them if they aren't it's a victory for them, so their strategic interests should not the #1 priority.


I agree, opposing the EDL is the central priority (of an anti-EDL demo). Thus strong denunciations of the extremists actions should be made (and, in this case, were).  Mid to long-term, such work must indeed be done.  But, on one particular day, if they do still turn up, what then?


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## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2013)

if you read the report earlier he insinuates that muslims might have done it themselves, presumably as a false flag or something



> If I'm honest, I'm completely sceptical that it is even non-Muslims that have done that


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

treelover said:


> No, but the idea of LU is to be a broad based party which will include such people, they will know the contempt you have for them and others.


and, as I just said, I have no problem working alongside such people in specific campaigns.  When they argue for wet liberal politics (such as the bishop requesting we let 'just fifteen' EDLers put down their flowers last week) I'll oppose them.


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Of course it follows. I don;t want the EDL on a march for gay rights (possibly with islamists counter demonstrating), I wouldn't want to demonstrate against the EDL with Homophobes, wife beaters or people who demand the death penalty for apostacy. It seems the UAF don't mind the latter.


Neither do I, but that wasn't the question.  How would removing the EDL play into the hands of homophobes on that occasion?


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> So you'd be for the physical ejection of 'islamists' Always? How about if they arent waving big flags about, but have a dodgy looking badge? Should _they_ be ejected? I'm really not at all sure how this can work out in practise. Which is my point,
> 
> All looney bombers were condemned by speaker after speaker. It was made clear that no one considered Lee Rigby a 'legitimate target.' 'jihadism' was fairly clearly verbally opposed.




Yes I am always against Islamists even if they aren't wearing any badges or waving flags. I'd kick Tommy Robinson out of a Gay event even if he turned up dressed in a massive pink triangle.


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I agree, opposing the EDL is the central priority (of an anti-EDL demo). Thus strong denunciations of the extremists actions should be made (and, in this case, were). Mid to long-term, such work must indeed be done. But, on one particular day, if they do still turn up, what then?


 

Well I spoke to one of the organisers about the flag and he told me that it was probably alright because they "weren't Al-Qaeda, just Hizb ut-Tahrir". This being the Hizb ut-Tahrir that's so extreme that even the mealy mouthed NUS no platformed it back way back in 2004.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Yes I am always against Islamists even if they aren't wearing any badges or waving flags. I'd kick Tommy Robinson out of a Gay event even if he turned up dressed in a massive pink triangle.


 



he normally prefers rabbi costumes when doing fancy dress


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Yes I am always against Islamists even if they aren't wearing any badges or waving flags. I'd kick Tommy Robinson out of a Gay event even if he turned up dressed in a massive pink triangle.


Stephen Yardley-Lennon is quite recognisable with or without badges.  How are you going to recognise jihadists if they arent waving flags or whatever?  If they look like just people on a demo?


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I agree, opposing the EDL is the central priority (of an anti-EDL demo). Thus strong denunciations of the extremists actions should be made (and, in this case, were). Mid to long-term, such work must indeed be done. But, on one particular day, if they do still turn up, what then?


 
Well then it's going to come down to what effects the prior work has had and on who. If it's had none and we have the usual UAF shouters and non-aligned then it's highly likely to be a situation where the largest element won't want to confront  them (and who would probably be unable to for a number of immediate reasons) and a smaller bunch who don't want to break the 'unity' or act unilaterally (even if they could). If however, there has been that hard work put in beforehand to isolate and surround these idiots and a political understanding of why they are poison and exactly what the edl want and need has been built  then i think they could be effectively got rid of rather quickly. There was only a handful of them from what i could see in that vid above - situation not the same in the one from luton we were discussing last week.


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

UAF and fellow travellers were more than happy to confront Peter Tatchell for having the temerity of holding a placard saying “Gays & Muslims UNITE! Stop the EDL” in Tower Hamlets. Depressing how easily that was managed but confronting someone with actual far-right Islamist views is beyond the pale.


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> Stephen Yardley-Lennon is quite recognisable with or without badges. How are you going to recognise jihadists if they arent waving flags or whatever? If they look like just people on a demo?


 

Surely just as you wouldn't kick BNP members off a bedroom tax protest, but would if they held BNP placards - the same would hold true for far-right Islamists?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> Stephen Yardley-Lennon is quite recognisable with or without badges.  How are you going to recognise jihadists if they arent waving flags or whatever?  If they look like just people on a demo?


There is no such person as stephen yardley-lennon.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2013)

Yeah his name is....... Paul Steven Tommy Harris Lennon Yaxley Robinson.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> Stephen Yardley-Lennon is quite recognisable with or without badges.  How are you going to recognise jihadists if they arent waving flags or whatever?  If they look like just people on a demo?



Well you can't. Which is why it's importsnt to state that position when publicising events.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Surely just as you wouldn't kick BNP members off a bedroom tax protest, but would if they held BNP placards - the same would hold true for far-right Islamists?


I think belboid holds to a 'don't ask don't tell' policy for fascists secular or religious


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> Neither do I, but that wasn't the question. How would removing the EDL play into the hands of homophobes on that occasion?


 
How would removing Islamacists play into the hands of anti-Muslims and racists?


> Stephen Yardley-Lennon is quite recognisable with or without badges.


 
So is Anjem Choudray


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> he normally prefers rabbi costumes when doing fancy dress


 

They are very suitable for one who has achieved middle age. The frock coat is very slimming and the yarmulke usefully covers up the expanding bald patch.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Well then it's going to come down to what effects the prior work has had and on who. If it's had none and we have the usual UAF shouters and non-aligned then it's highly likely to be a situation where the largest element won't want to confront them (and who would probably be unable to for a number of immediate reasons) and a smaller bunch who don't want to break the 'unity' or act unilaterally (even if they could). If however, there has been that hard work put in beforehand to isolate and surround these idiots and a political understanding of why they are poison and exactly what the edl want and need has been built then i think they could be effectively got rid of rather quickly. There was only a handful of them from what i could see in that vid above - situation not the same in the one from luton we were discussing last week.





J Ed said:


> Surely just as you wouldn't kick BNP members off a bedroom tax protest, but would if they held BNP placards - the same would hold true for far-right Islamists?


well, I'd rather some other muslim person did it - for purely tactical reasons. If it is actually _practical_ to do so, then I'd probably agree. Just as the bloke _did_ get the islamist to stop flying the flag at the front of the demo.  But how you stop someone just whipping it out again, I dont know. 

The BNP is different just because we do _know_ immediately that their banner is a BNP one - we understand the letters.  When we aren't sure (as most people near the flag waver in that video undoubtedly aren't sure), then I am not sure what can be done.

I think I agree with butch's points above. The work needs to be done beforehand, it cant just be done on the demo without massive disruption.


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## Frances Lengel (Jun 11, 2013)

Belboid's a nob - If some clown stood next to me turned out to be a wanker (or radical islamist or whatever), then yeah, I'd consider it my duty to attempt to remove them. Shouldn't that go without saying?


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> How would removing Islamacists play into the hands of anti-Muslims and racists?
> 
> 
> So is Anjem Choudray


and all jihadists look like him?  What about the rest?  I answered your previous question already


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Belboid's a nob - If some clown stood next to me turned out to be a wanker (or radical islamist or whatever), then yeah, I'd consider it my duty to attempt to remove them. Shouldn't that go without saying?


'a wanker' - well, i'm sure you think there are plenty of them, so you'd be a busy boy


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## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

massive backtracking going on there.


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well you can't. Which is why it's importsnt to state that position when publicising events.


exactly.  So what do you do if they came without reading your literature, or because they read another groups literature?  Once they are there....


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> well, I'd rather some other muslim person did it - for purely tactical reasons. If it is actually _practical_ to do so, then I'd probably agree. Just as the bloke _did_ get the islamist to stop flying the flag at the front of the demo. But how you stop someone just whipping it out again, I dont know.


 

I think that you're absolutely right here, but it's sort of a chicken and an egg situation in some respects because there are at least some Muslims who are put off from going to UAF demos because they know that there is a good chance that Islamists are going to be there. I have a left leaning Iranian friend whose attitude to the UAF was negative, despite the fact that he has received a lot of racist abuse from EDL types where he lives, purely because he associated the organisation with supporting groups like Al-Muhajiroun.


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## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

> *EDL leader's interview on Radio 4's Today draws fierce criticism*
> 
> BBC under fire from ex-MP and an al-Jazeera presenter over Tommy Robinson's appearance on flagship programme
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jun/11/edl-radio-4-today-bbc


 

The BBC has been accused of giving an uncritical platform to the leader of the English Defence League, who was interviewed on the Radio 4 Today programme on Tuesday morning.

The interview was branded "ludicrous" by critics on Twitter who questioned why Tommy Robinson, who is not an elected representative, was invited on the flagship programme at all.





> It was a poor effort by Today, but since when has the Twitterati been seen as a valid form of critical opinion?, especially by the broadsheets


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2013)

for a while now, seem to remember the jan moir thing being the first time I spotted a twitterstorm pushing something into mainstream


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> exactly.  So what do you do if they came without reading your literature, or because they read another groups literature?  Once they are there....



I'd tell them to piss off.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

treelover said:


> The BBC has been accused of giving an uncritical platform to the leader of the English Defence League, who was interviewed on the Radio 4 Today programme on Tuesday morning.
> 
> The interview was branded "ludicrous" by critics on Twitter who questioned why Tommy Robinson, who is not an elected representative, was invited on the flagship programme at all.


 
The amount of uncritical and even positive press coverage the EDL has gotten both here and abroad over the past few weeks is terrifying. It's like it's been decided that the group is now legitimate.


----------



## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

I think in terms of international support its becoming significant and individual if not organisation funding will follow.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> Well, they are completely wrong for failing to condemn them.



But you're still happy to work with them.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> maggots or stale bread?


 
and listerine


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented. Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.


Sorry to bump back, but this really doesn't make sense. Is there any way in which the jihadists could possibly be a progressive force, or part of progressive forces, in the situation of class struggle?


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'd tell them to piss off.


and they'd ignore you.  what then?  <which has been my question the whole time>


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> But you're still happy to work with them.


depends what you mean by 'work with.'  I'll attend some demo's they call, and wont do others.  Depends on the circumstances.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 11, 2013)

J Ed said:


> The amount of uncritical and even positive press coverage the EDL has gotten both here and abroad over the past few weeks is terrifying. It's like it's been decided that the group is now legitimate.



Question Time appearance in how many weeks? It's the sort of thing the beeb would love to do, making waves regardless of the consequences, defending it on the grounds of 'creating debate' (always an arsehole's excuse).


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> Sorry to bump back, but this really doesn't make sense. Is there any way in which the jihadists could possibly be a progressive force, or part of progressive forces, in the situation of class struggle?


No of course not, but that is a different question. People who want to bring back feudalism also cant play any progressive role, but no one thinks about campaigning against them because they are irrelevant and have zero chance of implementing anything. Or conspiraloons.  Icke and the jazzites are dangerous loonies whose arguments should be opposed, but they dont need a mass workers campaign against them, because they have no chance of ever implementing their lunacy.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> and they'd ignore you.  what then?  <which has been my question the whole time>



My comrades would tell them to piss off. are they going to want to continue being somewhere they're not welcome?


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> and they'd ignore you. what then? <which has been my question the whole time>


this is straight forward, if you had the people you would physically fuck em off, if you dont you cant!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> No of course not, but that is a different question. People who want to bring back feudalism also cant play any progressive role, but no one thinks about campaigning against them because they are irrelevant and have zero chance of implementing anything. Or conspiraloons.  Icke and the jazzites are dangerous loonies whose arguments should be opposed, but they dont need a mass workers campaign against them, because they have no chance of ever implementing their lunacy.



And the edl do?


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2013)

Who's this fuckwit?


> The Wizard
> @wizardpc
> Penny drops at @urban75 that they're promoting/supporting Muslim extremists at uaf demos. Keep it up!! No wonder #edl support soaring


https://twitter.com/wizardpc/status/344372815371313152


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2013)

editor said:


> Who's this fuckwit?
> 
> https://twitter.com/wizardpc/status/344372815371313152


 
That, i believe, is the banned twat gunneradt.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 11, 2013)

EDL support is soaring, they just got another 5 likes on facebook !!!!!!


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> That, i believe, is the banned twat gunneradt.


 
LOL! So he's still trying to feel a part of the boards by posting up inane drivel on his little Twitter account?

*bless.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> No, it isnt based upon 'ooh, this group is a bit nasty, I dont like them - which is abstract moralism. It is based upon an analysis of class forces, of what influence various trains of thought are likely to have, about the very possibilities of them being implemented. Which means, in the UK, that there is absolutely no equivalence between fascism and jihadism.


 
Can you not see how antifascists tolerating Salafists and allowing them to carry their symbols on antifascist mobilizations helps tip the balance of class forces in favour of the enemy by alienating working class people - many of them Muslims?

Never mind moralism, it doesn't make any pragmatic sense either.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> My comrades would tell them to piss off. are they going to want to continue being somewhere they're not welcome?


how many comrades do you have?  Can you effectively implement such a policy?  as LR says



Limerick Red said:


> this is straight forward, if you had the people you would physically fuck em off, if you dont you cant!


as I said in 13220, tactically, i think it's best if that is done by other muslim (background) comrades, so as to avoid any perceptions of white folk not letting muslims express their views.  But in this particular circumstance, I don't believe there is anything anyone could reasonably have done.

There is another, wider point, about how the UAF and SWP dont really bother with any serious stewarding, expecting everyone to just merrily stroll down the road and stand around in their preordained places, but thats another thing.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> And the edl do?


its not like they have the Daily Mail and UKIP on their side, is it?  Their racism will always have more chance of being implemented than jihadism.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Can you not see how antifascists tolerating Salafists and allowing them to carry their symbols on antifascist mobilizations helps tip the balance of class forces in favour of the enemy by alienating working class people - many of them Muslims?
> 
> Never mind moralism, it doesn't make any pragmatic sense either.


I think its effect upon this demo is completely overblown, and, as I've said, I dont know what else could practically have been done in the circumstances.  Pretty much everyones response has been 'well, you wouldn't have started from there.'  But we did, so...


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> No of course not, but that is a different question. People who want to bring back feudalism also cant play any progressive role, but no one thinks about campaigning against them because they are irrelevant and have zero chance of implementing anything. Or conspiraloons. Icke and the jazzites are dangerous loonies whose arguments should be opposed, but they dont need a mass workers campaign against them, because they have no chance of ever implementing their lunacy.


OK, but surely there are three important differences between them and the jihadists.
1) The jihadists are the extremist, militant end of a Faith that is 1400 years old and has a billion adherents worldwide, rather than a handful of tinfoilhatters on the interweb
2) as such, they have been far more strident and successful in both attracting support, and carrying out operations
3) Whilst w/c people in muslim communities can be, and are, a necessary part of class struggle, Islam can only ever be the ideological enemy of that strugglke, like all faiths;
In short, it, and it's militant wing is a far bigger threat to that struggle


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> And the edl do?


very little chance, but why take chances? Their brand of poison should be opposed, wherever it wells up.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> as I said in 13220, tactically, i think it's best if that is done by other muslim (background) comrades, so as to avoid any perceptions of white folk not letting muslims express their views.


 
Sure, thats fine, but not always possible, and what we are talking about here is optics, so whats looks worse, (predominately) white folk confronting Jihadists, and telling them they are not welcome, or accepting them as part of the protest, and allowing the media and the EDL, to discredit the protests/demos. I know what I think looks worse.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> There is another, wider point, about how the UAF and SWP dont really bother with any serious stewarding, expecting everyone to just merrily stroll down the road and stand around in their preordained places, but thats another thing.


Precisely; and the SWP have a vile history of cosying up to both Islamists and jihadists


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Sure, thats fine, but not always possible, and what we are talking about here is optics, so whats looks worse, (predominately) white folk confronting Jihadists, and telling them they are not welcome, or accepting them as part of the protest, and allowing the media and the EDL, to discredit the protests/demos. I know what I think looks worse.


But what if the Jihadists then refuse to leave the demo? Then what?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> its not like they have the Daily Mail and UKIP on their side, is it?  Their racism will always have more chance of being implemented than jihadism.



.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> BBut what if the Jihadists then refuse to leave the demo? Then what?


Like I said, these will be a small minority on a demo, so they could easily be physically put off a demo.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Can you not see how antifascists tolerating Salafists and allowing them to carry their symbols on antifascist mobilizations helps tip the balance of class forces in favour of the enemy by alienating working class people - many of them Muslims?
> 
> Never mind moralism, it doesn't make any pragmatic sense either.


 

And in many middle eastern countries the jihadists essentially play the same role as the fash - look at the Muslim brotherhood for example in Egypt


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:
			
		

> very little chance, but why take chances? Their brand of poison should be opposed, wherever it wells up.



Exactly. But apparently their miniscule threat should be opposed but the miniscule threat of Islamists not to be worried about according to belboid and was my point that you missed.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I think its effect upon this demo is completely overblown, and, as I've said, I dont know what else could practically have been done in the circumstances. Pretty much everyones response has been 'well, you wouldn't have started from there.' But we did, so...


 
It's not just about this demo though is it? This isn't the first time events have occurred that give the impression that the UAF, and by association the left/antifascists in general, are soft on islamists. This is a part of that - probably not of huge significance if taken in isolation, but taken in the context of other stuff like this that's happened before it is important.

To be honest I'm not really clear as to what you're saying here. There is a widely held impression, among more than just EDL and sympathisers, that UAF and by association all antifascists are soft on Islamists. Them being allowed to carry their flags and stuff at demos only reinforces that. I doubt this one instance, taken alone, is of huge significance - but it's more evidence for those who hold this view.

The wider impression of antifascists as soft on Islamists definitely is damaging - there's simply no question in my mind about that. This feeds into it and the lack of any kind of response from UAF, and in some cases outright denials and incoherent arguments about it not really being an islamist flag just adds to it. It's not just about this one instance, it's about a more long term and more damaging trend.

Do you agree?

If so the discussion should be about how we go about changing that impression. And a part of doing that is to work out how we deal with it when (and it is when - it will happen again) they do this kind of stuff again. It probably won't always be possible to physically repel them. But we need to have an honest discussion about the damage this causes and how it can be countered. It would probably be a good start for the organisers of the demos where it happens to come out afterwards and say it's not tolerable and that we're opposed to that kind of far right politics too.

Dismissing these concerns as moralism misses the point if you ask me.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 11, 2013)

Well I've definitely seen Islamist insignia/flags on Palestine demos including the big one in 2009. It would make me really fucking uncomfortable if I was on a march and saw that sort of thing now.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> OK, but surely there are three important differences between them and the jihadists.
> 1) The jihadists are the extremist, militant end of a Faith that is 1400 years old and has a billion adherents worldwide, rather than a handful of tinfoilhatters on the interweb
> 2) as such, they have been far more strident and successful in both attracting support, and carrying out operations
> 3) Whilst w/c people in muslim communities can be, and are, a necessary part of class struggle, Islam can only ever be the ideological enemy of that strugglke, like all faiths;
> In short, it, and it's militant wing is a far bigger threat to that struggle


surely the same argument holds about all religions tho, so we should spend even more time attacking the mainstream church, as it can only ever be the ideological enemy of the struggle, like all faiths?  That just seems too abstract to me, not based in the day to day reality of british life, a reality where such fundamentalism will only ever be a miniscule minority.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Exactly. But apparently their miniscule threat should be opposed but the miniscule threat of Islamists not to be worried about according to belboid and was my point that you missed.


sorry, you obviously missed my reply about how the EDL are clearly cutting with mainstream racism, as promoted by the Mail & UKIP etc. Even without that support, and even if both groups were just the same tiny minority within their 'own' communities, the EDL would be much bigger, and so much more of a threat, for fairly obvious reasons.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> surely the same argument holds about all religions tho, so we should spend even more time attacking the mainstream church, as it can only ever be the ideological enemy of the struggle, like all faiths? That just seems too abstract to me, not based in the day to day reality of british life, a reality where such fundamentalism will only ever be a miniscule minority.


This is like saying there is no diffence between Church of England protesters and Falangists.There is a collosal difference between having people from even conservative mosques, and Jihadists on a protest.


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you're like a fish, wriggling away on a hook.


 


andysays said:


> belboid, earlier
> 
> ETA: link not working. Shame, it was a lovely song


 


Spoiler








Hopefully it's working now.

DEFINITELY NOT SAFE FOR WORK ETC


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> I think it is clearly the former. *They are all perfectly welcome at UAF functions* because the SWP thinks that gay rights are '' a shibboleth'' and are prepared to ignore any actions by Islamists due to their absurd second campism.


 
Yeah, as long as they keep to the back of the bus march with their flags with funny writing that no one can understand, what's the problem?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Exactly. But apparently their miniscule threat should be opposed but the miniscule threat of Islamists not to be worried about according to belboid and was my point that you missed.


sorry yes, see what you mean now


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> surely the same argument holds about all religions tho, so we should spend even more time attacking the mainstream church, as it can only ever be the ideological enemy of the struggle, like all faiths? That just seems too abstract to me, not based in the day to day reality of british life, a reality where such fundamentalism will only ever be a miniscule minority.


It does hold for all Faiths, but given the title of this thread, and what the EDL are explicit in saying they are about, the priority is for the anti-fascist cause to go to extra lengths - extraordinary lengths even - to make it clear they regard both jihadism and islamism as utterly wrong, so as to avoid being tarred with the brush of being 'soft' on them.
Also, I don't know of many terror attacks being carried out by militant christian theocrats


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's not just about this demo though is it? This isn't the first time events have occurred that give the impression that the UAF, and by association the left/antifascists in general, are soft on islamists. This is a part of that - probably not of huge significance if taken in isolation, but taken in the context of other stuff like this that's happened before it is important.
> 
> To be honest I'm not really clear as to what you're saying here. There is a widely held impression, among more than just EDL and sympathisers, that UAF and by association all antifascists are soft on Islamists. Them being allowed to carry their flags and stuff at demos only reinforces that. I doubt this one instance, taken alone, is of huge significance - but it's more evidence for those who hold this view.


Its not just about this demo, but I really doubt that there is a widely held impression that the UAF is soft on Islamists.  Outside of the far-right, who'll say that whatever, and those of us with too much time on our hands on the left, I haven't heard it come up, never from an 'ordinary person.'  Which is why I think this whole discussion is completely overblown. Someone holds up a (still not entirely confirmed as) jihadi flag, therefore we need to change how we organise demos?  I dont think so.



> The wider impression of antifascists as soft on Islamists definitely is damaging - there's simply no question in my mind about that. This feeds into it and the lack of any kind of response from UAF, and in some cases outright denials and incoherent arguments about it not really being an islamist flag just adds to it. It's not just about this one instance, it's about a more long term and more damaging trend.
> 
> Do you agree?


as I say, I dont entirely agree re UAF, although as a wider phenomenon we do of course have to oppose islamism. Things like (for example) the SWP's position of not criticising Iran because the yanks and Israelis want to destroy it is counter-productive. You certainly dont invite jihadists to anything, and speak out against them.


> If so the discussion should be about how we go about changing that impression. And a part of doing that is to work out how we deal with it when (and it is when - it will happen again) they do this kind of stuff again. It probably won't always be possible to physically repel them. But we need to have an honest discussion about the damage this causes and how it can be countered. It would probably be a good start for the organisers of the demos where it happens to come out afterwards and say it's not tolerable and that we're opposed to that kind of far right politics too.
> 
> Dismissing these concerns as moralism misses the point if you ask me.


I'm not dismissing 'concerns' as moralism, I do dismiss some of the _idealist_ (from a marxist perspective, ie not materialist) criticisms. Treating ideas as abstract things without relation to their basis in current reality _is_ idealist, and, it follows, that your belief in such a view flows from a moralist rather than materialist analysis.  I am getting rather abstract myself there, I must admit.  Too much time in Marxist reading groups...


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> This is like saying there is no diffence between Church of England protesters and Falangists.There is a collosal difference between having people from even conservative mosques, and Jihadists on a protest.


mm, thats why I am disagreeing with the point being made.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...



good song, crap point


----------



## pissflaps (Jun 11, 2013)

that 'song' gave me cancer.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> Its not just about this demo, but I really doubt that there is a widely held impression that the UAF is soft on Islamists. Outside of the far-right, who'll say that whatever, and those of us with too much time on our hands on the left, I haven't heard it come up, never from an 'ordinary person.' Which is why I think this whole discussion is completely overblown. Someone holds up a (still not entirely confirmed as) jihadi flag, therefore we need to change how we organise demos? I dont think so.


 
I have - from liberals, apolitical types and secularists from Muslim backgrounds. This just looks like burying your head in the sand.

Just a statement condemning this kind of stuff would be a start - hardly a massive change in how we organise.



belboid said:


> as I say, I dont entirely agree re UAF, although as a wider phenomenon we do of course have to oppose islamism. Things like (for example) the SWP's position of not criticising Iran because the yanks and Israelis want to destroy it is counter-productive. You certainly dont invite jihadists to anything, and speak out against them.


 
Agreed - but you'll struggle to find much condemnation of it on the UAF website and I've never seen them say anything condemning Islamists turning up to their demos or saying they're not welcome - even after the fact.



belboid said:


> I'm not dismissing 'concerns' as moralism, I do dismiss some of the _idealist_ (from a marxist perspective, ie not materialist) criticisms. Treating ideas as abstract things without relation to their basis in current reality _is_ idealist, and, it follows, that your belief in such a view flows from a moralist rather than materialist analysis. I am getting rather abstract myself there, I must admit. Too much time in Marxist reading groups...


 
I really don't see any of that on here though. I think Islamists make working class self-organisation that includes Muslims and non-Muslims more difficult and the impression (sometimes not without foundation - see them opposing One Law for All as 'fascists' and other such daftness) that UAF and by association antifascists are soft on them only adds to the problem.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> It does hold for all Faiths, but given the title of this thread, and what the EDL are explicit in saying they are about, the priority is for the anti-fascist cause to go to extra lengths - extraordinary lengths even - to make it clear they regard both jihadism and islamism as utterly wrong, so as to avoid being tarred with the brush of being 'soft' on them.
> Also, I don't know of many terror attacks being carried out by militant christian theocrats


Lords Resistance Army?

I think the key thing to do is to argue for unity of working-class people of any religion and none against enemies that try to divide us. That is a fundamentally anti-islamist and jihadist point of view, its one that totally undermines the jihadist argument that all non-muslims are the devil. Is it worth saying out loud that this means being anti-jihadi?  Yes.  I'm not at all convinced by the need to go to any extra lengths tho.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> mm, thats why I am disagreeing with the point being made.


sorry somehow missed the post you were quoting!


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I agree, opposing the EDL is the central priority (of an anti-EDL demo). Thus strong denunciations of the extremists actions should be made (and, in this case, were). Mid to long-term, such work must indeed be done. But, on one particular day, if they do still turn up, what then?


 
Even opposing the EDL is not an ultimate goal (though it's certainly a worthwhile one). What your longer term strategic purpose is will affect how you oppose them.

It appears that the UAF's purpose is merely to pull more people who don't like the EDL, for whatever reason including moralistic ones, into their orbit, and attempt to recruit them to the Party (good luck with that!)

Any coherent w/c political group has to be able to resist/counter all forms of oppression, not just the current manifestation of racist/facist ideology, which means rejecting the nonsense

my enemy's enemy is my friend​ 
bollocks, and making a principled judgement on who they work with. The UAF seem to have no principles beyond being a front for the SWP and attempting to recruit more acolytes


----------



## andysays (Jun 11, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> that 'song' gave me cancer.


 


Spoiler








Not Safe For pissflaps


----------



## pissflaps (Jun 11, 2013)

now that just looked like a first year film school student's end of year project. C-


----------



## treelover (Jun 11, 2013)

The big palestine march in London which is held very year and promoted by the likes of Socialist Unity has loads of dubious characters, groups on it, can't think of the name of it.

and there was the 'jewish octopus' thing as well..


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I have - from liberals, apolitical types and secularists from Muslim backgrounds. This just looks like burying your head in the sand.
> 
> Just a statement condemning this kind of stuff would be a start - hardly a massive change in how we organise.


I've heard many, many, criticisms of the UAF from all sorts of people, from 'they just get us to stand around uselessly' to 'they wrong cos its free speech' and everything inbetween, including plenty of slagging off of 'islamists'. I've honestly never heard anyone (other than the AWL) say simply that the UAF are soft on jihadists.  Sorry, but I havent.



> Agreed - but you'll struggle to find much condemnation of it on the UAF website and I've never seen them say anything condemning Islamists turning up to their demos or saying they're not welcome - even after the fact.


I wouldnt expect them to.  Not unless it became a much bigger story than it currently is - ie a bit of chatter on some websites. If it isnt being brought up with them, then they aren't going to see a need for any response, are they?  Doing so _would_ add to the idea that british jihadism is a bigger problem than it really is.

I really don't see any of that on here though. I think Islamists make working class self-organisation that includes Muslims and non-Muslims more difficult and the impression (sometimes not without foundation - see them opposing One Law for All as 'fascists' and other such daftness) that UAF and by association antifascists are soft on them only adds to the problem.[/quote]
hadn't seen the One Law stuff before - fuck me but that seems like a stupid response from them.  And, yes, islamists make w-c organisation harder, but not much in the vast majority of places. EDL type racists are far far more common and thus require far far more attention.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> Lords Resistance Army?


Arghh my bad, should have added 'in Britain'. This being where we operate


> I think the key thing to do is to argue for unity of working-class people of any religion and none against enemies that try to divide us. That is a fundamentally anti-islamist and jihadist point of view, its one that totally undermines the jihadist argument that all non-muslims are the devil. Is it worth saying out loud that this means being anti-jihadi? Yes.


Agreed, but we should also go to extra lenghts to put up the big 'not welcome' sign, should any organisation like Hizb-Ut Tahrir (or similar) try to hijack protests


> I'm not at all convinced by the need to go to any extra lengths tho.


I think we do. Firstly, due to the cynical fellow-travelling behaviour of ye swappies/UAF in the past, EDL have beeen handed a potentially priceless propaganda tool, which it is vital to counter. Second, the tenacity of the jihadi types measns, again, the big 'not welcome' sign is extra-necessary. Thirdly, the trot left has, regfrettably, such a sad record of propaganda own goals, that it's wise to me to be cautious.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

andysays said:


> Even opposing the EDL is not an ultimate goal (though it's certainly a worthwhile one). What your longer term strategic purpose is will affect how you oppose them.
> 
> It appears that the UAF's purpose is merely to pull more people who don't like the EDL, for whatever reason including moralistic ones, into their orbit, and attempt to recruit them to the Party (good luck with that!)
> 
> ...


well, I'm interested in helping build working-class self-organisation.  Which means there were about four hundred tools of oppression I should have been opposing last saturday.  Sometimes you have to concentrate on specific targets.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> And, yes, islamists make w-c organisation harder, but not much in the vast majority of places. EDL type racists are far far more common and thus require far far more attention.


 
and what is this _far, far more attention_ exactly? shouting scum! all day long and offering nothing political apart from a wet-arsed defence of islamist flag wavers?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I've honestly never heard anyone (other than the AWL) say simply that the UAF are soft on jihadists. Sorry, but I havent.


Haven't you? I must say I have, from both non-swappie trots and anarchoes, plus others I got chatting to at demoes


> And, yes, islamists make w-c organisation harder, but not much in the vast majority of places. EDL type racists are far far more common and thus require far far more attention.


hmm....given that the EDL were, until Woolwich, dying on their arse, and given that quite a few studies have charted the rise of Islamism (if not, I grant you, outright jihadism), I'm not so sure that's actually the case.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 11, 2013)

What an unbelievable cretin you are belboid.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> Arghh my bad, should have added 'in Britain'. This being where we operate
> 
> Agreed, but we should also go to extra lenghts to put up the big 'not welcome' sign, should any organisation like Hizb-Ut Tahrir (or similar) try to hijack protests
> 
> I think we do. Firstly, due to the cynical fellow-travelling behaviour of ye swappies/UAF in the past, EDL have beeen handed a potentially priceless propaganda tool, which it is vital to counter. Second, the tenacity of the jihadi types measns, again, the big 'not welcome' sign is extra-necessary. Thirdly, the trot left has, regfrettably, such a sad record of propaganda own goals, that it's wise to me to be cautious.


I wonder what effect such signs would have upon muslims who didnt buy into the whole use of language around 'islamist,' 'jihadi,' etc.  People who were defensive of their religion, and didn't particularly know the organisers of the demo. They are amongst the very people we are trying to pull to such events, but putting signs like that up will surely put them off, no?

Especailly when you get the pedantic muslim who goes 'well, technically I am a jihadist, because I know what the word means and it isn't all about the violent struggle against non-believers at all.'


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> Haven't you? I must say I have, from both non-swappie trots and anarchoes, plus others I got chatting to at demoes


sorry, I had mentioned other lefties with too much time on their hands before as well.  I just like slagging off the AWL.



> hmm....given that the EDL were, until Woolwich, dying on their arse, and given that quite a few studies have charted the rise of Islamism (if not, I grant you, outright jihadism), I'm not so sure that's actually the case.


yeah, but their base had never disappeared, they'd just got sick of standing around in pens chanting and being chanted at.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> What an unbelievable cretin you are belboid.


thank you for that insightful and thought provoking comment.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> This isn't the first time events have occurred that give the impression that the UAF, and by association the left/antifascists in general, are soft on islamists.


sorry to veer OT slightly, but it's really important to differentiate between Islamists and Jihadists. The former is massvely broad concept encompassing all shades of opinion between (say) Ahmed Ben Bella to the MB, the latter hacked a soldier to death in Woolwich and put bombs on tube trains


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> sorry to veer OT slightly, but it's really important to differentiate between Islamists and Jihadists. The former is massvely broad concept encompassing all shades of opinion between (say) Ahmed Ben Bella to the MB, the latter hacked a soldier to death in Woolwich and put bombs on tube trains


 
True - though I can't say I'm any more comfortable with Islamists (as opposed to Muslims) than I would be with Christian reconstructionists.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I wonder what effect such signs would have upon muslims who didnt buy into the whole use of language around 'islamist,' 'jihadi,' etc. People who were defensive of their religion, and didn't particularly know the organisers of the demo. They are amongst the very people we are trying to pull to such events, but putting signs like that up will surely put them off, no?


I think that, fundamentally, you have to give your audience - muslims and non-muslims alike - some credit for intelligence. If you make it clear you are specifically opposed most of all to jihadism, but also to 'hard' Islamism of the Hizb-ut Tahrir brand, but welcome all others, of all faiths and none, in a broad front against fascism and racism, you will make the right impression, convey the message you want to, to enough of the minds you want to reach, whilst stopping the EDL scoring a propaganda hit


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> I think that, fuindamentally, you have to give your audience - muslims and non-muslims alike - some credit for intelligence. If you make it clear you are specifically opposed most of all to jihadism, but also to 'hard' Islamism of the Hizb-ut Tahrir brand, but welcome all others, of all faiths and none, in a broad front against fascism and racism, you will make the right impression, convey the message you want to, to enough of the minds you want to reach, whilst stopping the EDL scoring a propaganda hit


 
Spot on mate.


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## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> True - though I can't say I'm any more comfortable with Islamists (as opposed to Muslims) than I would be with Christian reconstructionists.


neither would I be - however, we'd probably both be a lot safer, and it's even worse to be seen as fellow-travelling with acolytes of Terror


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## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

sunnysidedown said:


> and what is this _far, far more attention_ exactly? shouting scum! all day long and offering nothing political apart from a wet-arsed defence of islamist flag wavers?


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## framed (Jun 11, 2013)

*Suicide Terror and the ‘Politics of Pity’*

A recent contribution to the TAL blog


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> I think that, fundamentally, you have to give your audience - muslims and non-muslims alike - some credit for intelligence. If you make it clear you are specifically opposed most of all to jihadism, but also to 'hard' Islamism of the Hizb-ut Tahrir brand, but welcome all others, of all faiths and none, in a broad front against fascism and racism, you will make the right impression, convey the message you want to, to enough of the minds you want to reach, whilst stopping the EDL scoring a propaganda hit


I dont have a problem with that, although I doubt it would really make any difference. If there's anyone there with something written in Arabic some fucker will claim its jihadist, just opposing the EDL is enough for them.


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## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

I should explain, just in case I've inadvertently misled anyone, that when I was talking about the big 'not welcome' sign, I was speaking figuratively. I meant that in ALL the messages/communications given out by left groups engaged  in anti-EDL campaigns, they should have made it clear from the start - loud and clear -that they oppose the politics of hardline Islamism just as much as they do those of the EDL, for fairly similar reasons; they are both fundamentally reactionary, divisive, and driven by exploiting the fear of the other (amongst other reasons too numerous to list here).


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## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

Which the SWP do not do. In fact they've given Islamists platforms.


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## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Which the SWP do not do. In fact they've given Islamists platforms.


Absolutely. And I'm kicking myself as I meant to add that to my post. By their fuckwitted relativism and cuddling up to various shades of Islamist (being fair and to the best of my knowledge, they've not 'walked out' with outright jihadists - yet), they/UAF totally shot themselves in the foot.
Which wouldn't be a bad thing except that - inevitably - they end up shooting every other anti-fash person, campaign and organisation as well.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Which the SWP do not do. In fact they've given Islamists platforms.


 

Right, it's not that Muslims sympathetic to socialist ideas don't exist, they do, it's that they're more often than not the ones being killed by the Islamists the SWP apologise on behalf of (and this violent far-right Islamist suppression of leftists in the Muslim world has been going on for decades at the behest of MI6 and the CIA). What sort of message does that send to the Muslims who belboid wants to be the ones to confront groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir?


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## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> Absolutely. And I'm kicking myself as I meant to add that to my post. By their fuckwitted relativism and cuddling up to various shades of Islamist (being fair and to the best of my knowledge, they've not 'walked out' with outright jihadists - yet)


 
Actually...


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I dont have a problem with that, although I doubt it would really make any difference. If there's anyone there with something written in Arabic some fucker will claim its jihadist, just opposing the EDL is enough for them.


 
It is clearly easier to counter people who say it's jihadist when it's just a harmless Arabic peace slogan or summmat than when it _actually is _jihadist though, wouldn't you agree?


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> and all jihadists look like him? What about the rest? I answered your previous question already


 All EDL look like TR?


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## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Actually...


aahh...reactionary Islamists to be sure, and I don't know much about the situation in Bangladesh,  but are you sure the Feb28 mob support terror?


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> It is clearly easier to counter people who say it's jihadist when it's just a harmless Arabic peace slogan or summmat than when it _actually is _jihadist though, wouldn't you agree?


 

Which groups in the UK use a black flag with white arabic lettering who are actually peace groups?


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

The Feb 28 movement are utterly repulsive but after the SWP's rape fiasco it seems there are no depths to which they will not descend.


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

This is what the Feb 28th movement (as supported by the SWP) believe in 

1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah
2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament* keeping death penalty* as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).
3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their *exemplary punishment*.
4. End to all *alien cultural practices* like* immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech*.
5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.
6. Declaration of *Ahmadis as non-Muslims* by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.

Frankly the SWP should be no platformed.​


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Which groups in the UK use a black flag with white arabic lettering who are actually peace groups?


I have no idea. Why is that relevant?


----------



## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I wonder what effect such signs would have upon muslims who didnt buy into the whole use of language around 'islamist,' 'jihadi,' etc. People who were defensive of their religion, and didn't particularly know the organisers of the demo. They are amongst the very people we are trying to pull to such events, but putting signs like that up will surely put them off, no?
> 
> Especailly when you get the pedantic muslim who goes 'well, technically I am a jihadist, because I know what the word means and it isn't all about the violent struggle against non-believers at all.'


 

Any Muslims who have a problem with condemning of Jihadis or Islamists are not people I care about offending. Ditto about 'working class white people' who might be offended against condemning of the EDL.

TheIslamacists are a vastly more dangerous force than Tommy Robinson's motley crew.

Btw which side does '' Party Notes"order you to support now that Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other?


----------



## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I have no idea. Why is that relevant?


 

because youquoted above that such a flag might be such a group which seems absurdly unlikley.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Btw which side does '' Party Notes"order you to support now that Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other?


hezbollah when you're talking to hezbollah and hamas when you're talking to hamas. but be sure of your audience before speaking. also, in a mixed audience say 'i support the palestinian people' and leave it vague.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> All EDL look like TR?


 
What on earth are you wittering on about?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> because it was quoted above that such a flag might be such a group which seems absurdly unlikley.


 
No it wasn't. Have another look.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> This is what the Feb 28th movement (as supported by the SWP) believe in
> 
> 1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah​2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament* keeping death penalty* as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).​3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their *exemplary punishment*.​4. End to all *alien cultural practices* like* immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech*.​5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.​6. Declaration of *Ahmadis as non-Muslims* by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.​​Frankly the SWP should be no platformed.​


 the only SAW i am aware of is the american squad automatick weapon.


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

> What on earth are you wittering on about?




Read back a bit...theres a dear.


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Any Muslims who have a problem with condemning of Jihadis or Islamists are not people I care about offending. Ditto about 'working class white people' who might be offended against condemning of the EDL.
> 
> TheIslamacists are a vastly more dangerous force than Tommy Robinson's motley crew.
> 
> Btw which side does '' Party Notes"order you to support now that Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other?


You are making less and less sense. and piss poor ad hominem


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

He makes perfect sense.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> He makes perfect sense.


yes. but that's because you are not afflicted with cliff's syndrome, an inability to comprehend criticism resulting in verbal diarrhoea


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## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> yes. but that's because you are not afflicted with cliff's syndrome, an inability to comprehend criticism resulting in verbal diarrhoea



I'm just reminded that earlier today he said exactly the same thing to me.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm just reminded that earlier today he said exactly the same thing to me.


cliff's syndrome can lead to mild memory loss


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## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> He makes perfect sense.


he's a daft sod who doesn't read things properly, and responds to a different point to the one being made. So, according to that post, anyone who doesn't agree with his own personal definition of 'Islamist' can fuck off; likewise on his 'All edl look like TR?' comes several comments after the original, which said absolutely nothing about 'all edl looking like TR' - a classic goalpost shifting move.


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm just reminded that earlier today he said exactly the same thing to me.


did i?  Well, you probably were


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> This is what the Feb 28th movement (as supported by the SWP) believe in
> 
> 1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah​2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament* keeping death penalty* as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).​3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their *exemplary punishment*.​4. End to all *alien cultural practices* like* immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech*.​5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.​6. Declaration of *Ahmadis as non-Muslims* by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.​Frankly the SWP should be no platformed.​


I think I've just been looking at the same website you got that from!
Ta for that, yep, generally knew as much as that, but what I wondered was whether they expressed their Faith by planting bombs, beheading people etc...


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## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Which groups in the UK use a black flag with white arabic lettering who are actually peace groups?


none to the best of my knowledge, but any 'muslims for peace' group _could_. The white on black combo/schtick is simply not important, symbolically or otherwise. It signifies nothing that important in Islamic culture, beyond the fact that the abbasids' banners were also black. Some groupings just chose it, fuck knows why.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> If there's anyone there with something written in Arabic some fucker will claim its jihadist, just opposing the EDL is enough for them.


True, which is again where you put faith in the intelligence of potential allies.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Btw which side does '' Party Notes"order you to support now that Hezbollah and Hamas despise each other?


being fair, Belboid's not a swappie


----------



## dominion (Jun 11, 2013)

Just as bizarre is this:

http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-wtf-moment-bnp-leader-visits-lebanon.html


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> being fair, Belboid's not a swappie


 lucky auld swp


----------



## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

dominion said:


> Just as bizarre is this:
> 
> http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-wtf-moment-bnp-leader-visits-lebanon.html


 

Must take him back to his pro-Gaddafi days


----------



## IC3D (Jun 11, 2013)

dominion said:


> Just as bizarre is this:
> 
> http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-wtf-moment-bnp-leader-visits-lebanon.html


 
Fascist has a hard on for Authoritarian regimes, dictators and their proxy militias, not a massive stretch.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> This is what the Feb 28th movement (as supported by the SWP) believe in
> 
> 1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah​2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament* keeping death penalty* as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).​3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their *exemplary punishment*.​4. End to all *alien cultural practices* like* immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech*.​5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.​6. Declaration of *Ahmadis as non-Muslims* by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.​Frankly the SWP should be no platformed.​


 
Who should be no platforming the SWP and how?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 11, 2013)

dominion said:


> Just as bizarre is this:
> 
> http://howiescorner.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/a-wtf-moment-bnp-leader-visits-lebanon.html


That is just _mental_


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> being fair, Belboid's not a swappie


 

Oh OK. Shows me up for making assumptions.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

IC3D said:


> Fascist has a hard on for Authoritarian regimes, dictators and their proxy militias, not a massive stretch.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


>


perhaps they can exchange notes.


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Who should be no platforming the SWP and how?


 
The Dagenham girl pipers.


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## protesticals (Jun 11, 2013)

Classic goalpost shifting......I never realised I was so machiavellian. Wow.

 Since I haven't actually defined islamism  you comment was rather odd however..

If you think gay people should be Stoned/hanged/ beaten up/ Imprisoned. You can fuck right off.

If you think it is OK to beat your wife then you can fuck right off.

If you think that you are entitled to kidnap your daughter and take her to another country and force her into marriage then you can fuck right off.

If you think apostacy should attract any legal sanction whatsoever then you can fuck right off.

I have no idea at all how many people have these ideas and wouldn't like to even guess. But anyone who states this or gives platform to these people are worthy of the same contempt I have fro the BNP/EDL/C18 etc etc.


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## IC3D (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals


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## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Classic goalpost shifting......I never realised I was so machiavellian. Wow.
> 
> Since I haven't actually defined islamism you comment was rather odd however..
> 
> ...


 
Alright old stoic. Long time no see.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 11, 2013)

So the comments at the end of this article aren't atypical of articles relating to the EDL in local newspapers. Do the EDL have social media campaigns to flood websites with these comments or are they more typical of popular sentiment than I realised?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 11, 2013)

belboid said:


> I wonder what effect such signs would have upon muslims who didnt buy into the whole use of language around 'islamist,' 'jihadi,' etc. People who were defensive of their religion, and didn't particularly know the organisers of the demo. *They are amongst the very people we are trying to pull to such events*, but putting signs like that up will surely put them off, no?
> 
> Especailly when you get the pedantic muslim who goes 'well, technically I am a jihadist, because I know what the word means and it isn't all about the violent struggle against non-believers at all.'


 
The UAF may be bending over backwards to pull all sorts of people to their events (minority groups, posh students, M.P.'s, Harry Potter fans, Tarquin singing "if it wasn't for the coppers" and someone on a  uni-cycle) but amongst the people they are *not* interested in is the white working class who are being left for the EDL to pick up and not without a little help with free propaganda courtesy of the UAF.


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## Anudder Oik (Jun 12, 2013)

Talking about propaganda and in keeping with the BBC's guidelines on balance, here's an anti-EDL interlude:

_"Eee!, I think i'll pop down ta local war memorial ta pay ma respects like. Hope ma grandaddy don't see me cos hed turn in his fuckin grave he would"._


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## redsquirrel (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> Its not just about this demo, but I really doubt that there is a widely held impression that the UAF is soft on Islamists. Outside of the far-right, who'll say that whatever, and those of us with too much time on our hands on the left, I haven't heard it come up, never from an 'ordinary person.' Which is why I think this whole discussion is completely overblown. Someone holds up a (still not entirely confirmed as) jihadi flag, therefore we need to change how we organise demos? I dont think so.


That's not my experience at all. Like SN I've heard multiple people from different political backgrounds accuse the left of being soft on Islamism. I do think it's an issue.

For me asking what people should do if someone with a Islamist flag turns up at a demo is starting from the wrong end. The starting point is clearly recognising that Islamism is an anti-wc philosophy and thus that any progressive group should make it clear at the start that they will have nothing to do with it. UAFs willingness to work with these people has meant that that ship has sailed and shows their uselessness.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 12, 2013)

This song has got it spot on.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> The UAF may be bending over backwards to pull all sorts of people to their events (minority groups, posh students, M.P.'s, Harry Potter fans, Tarquin singing "if it wasn't for the coppers" and someone on a uni-cycle) *but amongst the people they are not interested in is the white working class who are being left for the EDL to pick up and not without a little help with free propaganda courtesy of the UAF.[*/quote]
> 
> 
> first time heard the 'white working class' in this context for a while, seemed to have become decidedly non u, time for a return


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## FNG (Jun 12, 2013)

one thing i did notice was how quickly local support fell away from the EDL when Tommy offered up his organisation as strike breakers during the Public Workers Strike. The murder of Drummer Lee Rigby has given them a shot in the arm but longterm i doubt that they will be able to hide their anti wc policies for long.

 It does of course lead back to a much needed discussion on filling the void.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> So the comments at the end of this article aren't atypical of articles relating to the EDL in local newspapers. Do the EDL have social media campaigns to flood websites with these comments or are they more typical of popular sentiment than I realised?


 
Unfortunately I suspect the latter.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

The EDL was formed on the back of an impression that there was a double standard towards Muslims after a demonstration by a far-right Islamic group in Luton. Aggravated with what has been seen as a cover up in the various grooming scandals, absurd levels of media coverage and government influence given to completely unelected 'representatives' of the 'Muslim community'(whatever that is) self publicists who often turn out to be shysters or bigots.

Many people believe that Mosques are paid for by local authorities for instance. It isn't the case but when the EDL/BNP etc say so many people beleive them because as far as they are concerned they are lied to by the government in its divers forms .
it's hardly fertile ground for community harmony.

UAF/SWP solution: Bus in middle class students to provincial towns to shout "whose streets our streets' and confront another bunch of bussed in Football hoolgans and piss off locals who aren't interested.


Edited for errors.


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## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> So the comments at the end of this article aren't atypical of articles relating to the EDL in local newspapers. Do the EDL have social media campaigns to flood websites with these comments or are they more typical of popular sentiment than I realised?


 
They have people who post on all news storys to try and put them in good light.

Bit like Arthur who posted here for a while.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 12, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> The UAF may be bending over backwards to pull all sorts of people to their events (minority groups, posh students, M.P.'s, Harry Potter fans, Tarquin singing "if it wasn't for the coppers" and someone on a uni-cycle) but amongst the people they are *not* interested in is the white working class who are being left for the EDL to pick up and not without a little help with free propaganda courtesy of the UAF.


 
This is a very important point, if the UAF (and not just them) was really interested in smashing the EDL, they would take due care and dilligence to  look at each move they make, through the eyes of someone potentially on the periphery of the EDL and ask themselves does 1) sneering at the clothes 2) sneering at their weight/tattoos/general appeareance 3) sneering at their level of education, drive this potential person further towards or further away from the EDL.
The left still refuses to learn from AFAs experience, that Fascism (or extreme nationalism in the case of the EDL) comes almost exclusively from the white working class, and no ammount of Muslim community leaders, MPs , Multicultural carnivals, Victory parades will ever, ever change this.
Until they are willing to address the people who attend or potentially attend EDL rallies they are going nowhere.
This is not to say satire, humorus critisim doesnt have a place,but lets not mistake this for activism (EDL News), or that physical confrontation doesnt have an important role to play (as in brighton) but since the resurgence since Woolwich, we all have to look at what we are doing as part of the anti fascist movement, and ask what are we doing wrong. Because you just need to look around the country and see we have got something very wrong.
The EDL got it wrong too, they burnt out their membership through endless demo's, infighting, dodgy accounting, the were down to the bare bones, and some people were happy to clap themselves on the back, thinking they "smashed the nazis", did they Fuck, without addressing a single reason why someone would go on an EDL march, and now the EDL have being giving a second crack of the whip.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

Limerick Red. I agree with you but note that fascism has also generally had substantial support from the commercial lower middle classes;the shop keepers and small business owners but saying the sort of comments made would only turn them off too. Belboid's comments were rather enlightening. He sees trying to appeal to Muslims as being what is important NOT what will appeal to the EDL's potential recruits.

Multicultural carnivals just annoy these people. When I'm working (which being an actor tends to be not very often) I listen in on the conversations of the tradesmen- the riggers, grips, sparks's, gaffers etc and there is a huge amount of " I wouldn't join them myself ...but" comments.


----------



## andysays (Jun 12, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> This is a very important point, *if the UAF (and not just them) was really interested in smashing the EDL*, they would take due care and dilligence to look at each move they make, through the eyes of someone potentially on the periphery of the EDL and ask themselves does 1) sneering at the clothes 2) sneering at their weight/tattoos/general appeareance 3) sneering at their level of education, drive this potential person further towards or further away from the EDL.
> The left still refuses to learn from AFAs experience, that Fascism (or extreme nationalism in the case of the EDL) comes almost exclusively from the white working class, and no ammount of Muslim community leaders, MPs , Multicultural carnivals, Victory parades will ever, ever change this.
> Until they are willing to address the people who attend or potentially attend EDL rallies they are going nowhere.
> This is not to say satire, humorus critisim doesnt have a place,but lets not mistake this for activism (EDL News), or that physical confrontation doesnt have an important role to play (as in brighton) but since the resurgence since Woolwich, we all have to look at what we are doing as part of the anti fascist movement, and ask what are we doing wrong. Because you just need to look around the country and see we have got something very wrong.
> The EDL got it wrong too, they burnt out their membership through endless demo's, infighting, dodgy accounting, the were down to the bare bones, and some people were happy to clap themselves on the back, thinking they "smashed the nazis", did they Fuck, without addressing a single reason why someone would go on an EDL march, and now the EDL have being giving a second crack of the whip.


 
It's almost as if they're actually not interested in really smashing the EDL, but rather using them as a recruiting tool to swell their own ranks.

You have to be pretty cynical to think this, of course, but even more cynical to actually do it...


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Limerick Red. I agree with you but note that fascism has also generally had substantial support from the commercial lower middle classes;the shop keepers and small business owners but saying the sort of comments made would only turn them off too.


Yes, this is true, to clarify, I meant the people on the streets, at the demos etc, this is almost exclusively WC.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 12, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> lucky auld swp


Mee-ow!


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

best comment is at 7:29 minutes in.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 12, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> since the resurgence since Woolwich, we all have to look at what we are doing as part of the anti fascist movement, and ask what are we doing wrong. Because you just need to look around the country and see we have got something very wrong.
> The EDL got it wrong too, they burnt out their membership through endless demo's, infighting, dodgy accounting, the were down to the bare bones, and some people were happy to clap themselves on the back, thinking they "smashed the nazis", did they Fuck, without addressing a single reason why someone would go on an EDL march, and now the EDL have being giving a second crack of the whip.


Actually, this rings horribly true. I couldn't give a monkey's about trying to influence the hardcore fash, or even clowns like yaxley-lennon-robinson-mortgagefraud with the voice of sweet reason, but one area we've totally failed - not just the EDL, ALL of us, is in trying to understand, and relate to, and thereby influencing those whose fears the EDL play on, and those who could be drawn into those spheres of influence.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Multicultural carnivals just annoy these people.


 

Maybe I'm just a cynical misanthrope but I find the idea that all people need to stop being racist is samba bands and free henna tattoos really fucking irritating and patronising.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Maybe I'm just a cynical misanthrope but I find the idea that all people need to stop being racist is samba bands and free henna tattoos really fucking irritating and patronising.


Is there any way of liking this twice?


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Yes, this is true, to clarify, I meant the people on the streets, at the demos etc, this is almost exclusively WC.


 

Absolutely right.


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Alright old stoic. Long time no see.


aah - hardly surprising he doesn't think the EDL are much of a problem then, from his pleasant abode in sunny thailand



protesticals said:


> Since I haven't actually defined islamism you comment was rather odd however..


I dont need to know what your definition is to know that you have one. I dont know what colour your hair is/was, but I know it existed.


protesticals said:


> Belboid's comments were rather enlightening. He sees trying to appeal to Muslims as being what is important NOT what will appeal to the EDL's potential recruits.


in trying to get people to an anti-EDL *demo*, then only a brain dead moron would think targetting potential EDL recruits would be a good idea.

Sympathiser: 'I think there are too many nutty muslims, and the EDL are okay'
Old Stoic: 'well, jolly good, why dont you come along to our demo to oppose them then.'

Doesnt really make any sense, does it? Whereas getting the people who are the explicit target of the EDL long does.

Try thinking before you post.


----------



## cesare (Jun 12, 2013)

Wouldn't you just ask some questions about why they think Muslims are nutty and too many of them, though?


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> That's not my experience at all. Like SN I've heard multiple people from different political backgrounds accuse *the left *of being soft on Islamism. I do think it's an issue.


'the left' - maybe.  But we weren't talking about the generic 'left' before, we were talking UAF specifically.  And that is an important difference. When most people talk about 'the left' they arent actually thinking about UAF, or the SWP or any of the tiny left groups, they're talking about Livingstone, Labour lefties, even bloody Miliband. Quite different thing.



> For me asking what people should do if someone with a Islamist flag turns up at a demo is starting from the wrong end. The starting point is clearly recognising that Islamism is an anti-wc philosophy and thus that any progressive group should make it clear at the start that they will have nothing to do with it. UAFs willingness to work with these people has meant that that ship has sailed and shows their uselessness.


Yes that's a fine starting point - although, technically, it is one UAF hold to too.  They wont officially work with 'jihadists,' and speaker after speaker will condemn jihadism.  It makes fuck all difference, because of the more widespread general perception about 'the left.'


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

cesare said:


> Wouldn't you just ask some questions about why they think Muslims are nutty and too many of them, though?


well, that would be a good idea in the longer run.  But wouldnt do much good at building a demo


----------



## cesare (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> well, that would be a good idea in the longer run.  But wouldnt do much good at building a demo


It depends on the type of demo, and how far in advance you're building it for. Granted, a quick response to EDL/BNP mobilisation isn't going to allow much time for that. But it should be ongoing.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2013)

Oh and this isn't just an EDL thing but some work in the local community when there's no demos going on as well as "building for a demo" whatever it's about, edl, bedroom tax, whatever, would be a good thing. Not saying you dont do this Belboid and Ive been just as guilty of it in the past, there are loads of things i'd like to have carried on but had no time, but the whole idea of "building for a demo" and then not doing anything outside that is a bit annoying. Not saying anyone on this thread does that or anything though.

With people working really long hours etc tho, I'm not sure how this can be resolved.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> Yes that's a fine starting point - although, technically, it is one UAF hold to too. They wont officially work with 'jihadists,' and speaker after speaker will condemn jihadism. It makes fuck all difference, because of the more widespread general perception about 'the left.'


your post strongly suggests that _unofficially_ the uaf will certainly work with jihadis.


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

cesare said:


> It depends on the type of demo, and how far in advance you're building it for. Granted, a quick response to EDL/BNP mobilisation isn't going to allow much time for that. But it should be ongoing.


Sure, but that is a different thing.  No one is saying you shouldnt organise amongst the wwc, any anti-edl appraoch needs to be two-pronged, undercutting their support by working within the wwc, and organising upfront opposition to them by organising everywhere - particularly including those targetted by the edl.


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Oh and this isn't just an EDL thing but some work in the local community when there's no demos going on as well as "building for a demo" whatever it's about, edl, bedroom tax, whatever, would be a good thing. Not saying you dont do this Belboid and Ive been just as guilty of it in the past, there are loads of things i'd like to have carried on but had no time, but the whole idea of "building for a demo" and then not doing anything outside that is a bit annoying. Not saying anyone on this thread does that or anything though.
> 
> With people working really long hours etc tho, I'm not sure how this can be resolved.


building for a demo can be the beginning of that, it can be a foot in the door, as it were. Much better if you are already well rooted in such a community of course, but we cant be everywhere already, so have to start from somewhere.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> building for a demo can be the beginning of that, it can be a foot in the door, as it were. Much better if you are already well rooted in such a community of course, but we cant be everywhere already, so have to start from somewhere.


 

yeah i agree, i wasn't having a go. ive been part of that sort of thing myself, i would have really liked to have carried the bus campaign on in my village but not enough people wanted to do it and I didn't have time


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> your post strongly suggests that _unofficially_ the uaf will certainly work with jihadis.


well, we all saw the bomber on a platform once.  I'd suspect that was just an almighty fuckup when they asked 'does anyone else want to speak' - tho who knows?  They'll also fuck up by not knowing enough about small local groups (see the group sihhi posted up links to in the east end, for example).


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> a
> in trying to get people to an anti-EDL *demo*, then only a brain dead moron would think targetting potential EDL recruits would be a good idea.




Isn't the point to stop the EDL recruiting in the first place? Or do you actually want the EDL to continue so you can have a drama, and sell newspapers and recruit?


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

Old Stoic said:


> Isn't the point to stop the EDL recruiting in the first place? Or do you actually want the EDL to continue so you can have a drama, and sell newspapers and recruit?


Have you bothered reading the rest of the thread, we've been through this.

bit late to stop them recruiting a week before a demo, isnt it?


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> Have you bothered reading the rest of the thread, we've been through this.
> 
> bit late to stop them recruiting a week before a demo, isnt it?


 

You are spouting such incomprehensible stuff that I haven't a clue what you are referring to or to whom.  You should be stopping them recruiting all year long not pandering to Islamists and making MORE converts to the EDL cause.


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> You are spouting such incomprehensible stuff that I haven't a clue what you are referring to or to whom. You should be stopping them recruiting all year long not pandering to Islamists and making MORE converts to the EDL cause.


well, no one else had any problem understanding what I wrote.  So i guess you've come up with that guff to cover for the fact that you are talking out of your arse


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> well, no one else had any problem understanding what I wrote. So i guess you've come up with that guff to cover for the fact that you are talking out of your arse


 

Wow we are a little upset this morning aren't we. Perhaps you would like to explain to me, obviously analoglossic as I am, who or what "sympathiser"and "old stoic" are meant to represent?


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Wow we are a little upset this morning aren't we. Perhaps you would like to explain to me, obviously analoglossic as I am, who or what "sympathiser"and "old stoic" are meant to represent?


hardly, I'm laughing at you and your incomprehensible guff. Such as the above. Sympathiser is, uhh, someone who sympathises with the EDL (the clue is in the words used) and Old Stoic is you.

As to 'analoglossic' - fuck only knows


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

Old Stoic is me? I am neither old nor a stoic.



> As to 'analoglossic' - fuck only knows



Pretty self explanatory to such an obviously intelligent person as you.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

Engagement with WC, etc, does this mean that small EDL groups should always be chased off/asked to leave bedroom tax protests, etc or dialogue, etc?


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

and in other news - FoxNews host endorses the EDL on air -
http://mediamatters.org/mobile/blog...ur-back-fox-host-kilmeade-endorses-tom/194421


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

treelover said:


> Engagement with WC, etc, does this mean that small EDL groups should always be chased off/asked to leave bedroom tax protests, etc or dialogue, etc?




I would certainly not share a protest with them.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> your incomprehensible guff.



With so few people seemingly making any sense, have you considered it may be your cognitive abilities which are faulty?


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> With so few people seemingly making any sense, have you considered it may be your cognitive abilities which are faulty?


if you can explain what 'analoglossic' means then I will happily consider your comment


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Old Stoic is me? I am neither old nor a stoic.
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty self explanatory to such an obviously intelligent person as you.


out of curiosity; have you ever posted here, under a different name, perhaps?


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> out of curiosity; have you ever posted here, under a different name, perhaps?



I'm quite new to here. If you are part of the greater athiest/secular community you might know me from there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> if you can explain what 'analoglossic' means then I will happily consider your comment


did you know that according to google its only occurrence on the interweb is on this page?


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> I'm quite new to here. If you are part of the greater athiest/secular community you might know me from there.


just wond'rin'...


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> just wond'rin'...



Its seems we have both lived in two of the same areas -Leyton and Streatham.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Its seems we have both lived in two of the same areas -Leyton and Streatham.


yep, small world - nice areas!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Its seems we have both lived in two of the same areas -Leyton and Streatham.


have you ever lived further east than leyton?


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> did you know that according to google its only occurrence on the interweb is on this page?


i dont think it had been indexed when i first searched, I'll stop worrying about it now


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> have you ever lived further east than leyton?


Leytonstone is further east and I've lived there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Leytonstone is further east and I've lived there.


perhaps somewhere in essex?


----------



## cesare (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> I would certainly not share a protest with them.


How about if they were protesting the Bedroom Tax (or whatever) but not doing it from an EDL perspective eg just turning up without EDL anything, just their views?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> if you can explain what 'analoglossic' means then I will happily consider your comment



Glossic pertains to speaking, anal is kind of self explanatory.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 12, 2013)

cesare said:


> How about if they were protesting the Bedroom Tax (or whatever) but not doing it from an EDL perspective eg just turning up without EDL anything, just their views?


well ya just wouldnt know,unless ya knew, and if ya knew, ya would know what to do!


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Glossic pertains to speaking, anal is kind of self explanatory.


Ta!  So, protestcials thinks he talks out of his arse, not really worth engaging with then.


----------



## cesare (Jun 12, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> well ya just wouldnt know,unless ya knew, and if ya knew, ya would know what to do!


Nah, not necessarily. You can overhear comments and discussions, or be talking to someone yourself when it becomes clear. And then what ... I think you're there for a common purpose (eg bedroom tax) but it's worth getting involved in the discussion. Is that what you mean about knowing what to do? Cos if you meant telling them to piss off or trying to get them physically removed, I don't agree unless they're actively making life difficult for other people around them.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 12, 2013)

cesare said:


> Nah, not necessarily. You can overhear comments and discussions, or be talking to someone yourself when it becomes clear. And then what ... I think you're there for a common purpose (eg bedroom tax) but it's worth getting involved in the discussion. Is that what you mean about knowing what to do? Cos if you meant telling them to piss off or trying to get them physically removed, I don't agree unless they're actively making life difficult for other people around them.


what Im saying is if they are IDed as Fash, or EDL, of course they should be removed, of course not if they are someone who says an edl-esque remark, or starts talking about Muslims using spare rooms as prayer rooms, then they should be enganged in a friendly and understanding way. Horses for courses.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2013)

cesare said:


> How about if they were protesting the Bedroom Tax (or whatever) but not doing it from an EDL perspective eg just turning up without EDL anything, just their views?


 
Personally I'd say it depends on their behaviour. If they're banging on about rights for whites or making behaving in ways that make others (eg Muslims) feel uncomfortable they can fuck right off. But if they just share some of the ideas, but are willing to talk about them sensibly so there's some chance of changing their minds and where necessary are willing to put them to one side altogether to get on with the campaign they should be included.

I've had experiences of both these 'types' in bedroom tax campaigns and that's exactly how we've dealt with them.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2013)

I don't agree with belboid here but I do find protesticals general sneery condescending posting style really fucking irritating.


----------



## belboid (Jun 12, 2013)

I'd hope edl  sympathisers do turn up at bedroom tax etc demo's. Great way of starting to show how solidarity rather than religious and racial hatred is the way to win change. If they pull out flags etc, they get taken down, but even then I wouldnt necessarily want to fuck off the people holding them.  If you do just fuck them off all you'll achieve is a weakening of the bedroom tax campaign and a strengthening of the edl - you'd actually be doing what the UAF have been accused of all thread!


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> Ta! So, protestcials thinks he talks out of his arse, not really worth engaging with then.



Dear Oh Dear. You said you I was speaking out of my arse ,Cacoencephulus.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I don't agree with belboid here but I do find protesticals general sneery condescending posting style really fucking irritating.


 

Wack me on ignore then. There's a dear.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Wack me on ignore then. There's a dear.


 
Nah. I'm keeping an eye on you, something's not quite right.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Nah. I'm keeping an eye on you, something's not quite right.


this is urban. nothing's ever quite right here.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

EDL are our problem to deal with. However if  the brunt of their ire ie Muslim people wish to engage like the mosque who offered cups of tea and won over some of them then all power to them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> EDL are our problem to deal with. However if the brunt of their ire ie Muslim people wish to engage like the mosque who offered cups of tea and won over some of them then all power to them.


no, we have to batter them out of existence nothing else will solve this existential crisis


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Nah. I'm keeping an eye on you, something's not quite right.



You do that. Carry on being bothered by my irritating, condescending, posting style.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 12, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no, we have to batter them out of existence nothing else will solve this existential crisis


We do, Muslims don't have that responsibility.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

has my post been deleted?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

treelover said:


> has my post been deleted?


which one?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2013)

protesticals said:


> We do, Muslims don't have that responsibility.


 
Why not? Why isn't it the responsibility of every one of us?


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

I just posted up the a link to a video that is circulating across the web but mostly on EDL/far right sites about an alleged attack by Asian youths on white youth in Ashton, ting it could be a gang fight, but the point was the EDL supporters would believe it, you can't hide from the web anymore and the left has to get that



who deleted my post and why?

update, the EDL/TR have called a demo there, shit stirring...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

treelover said:


> I just posted up the a link to a video that is circulating across the web but mostly on EDL/far right sites about an alleged attack by Asian youths on white youth, noting it could be a gang fight, but the point was the EDL supporters would believe it, you can't hide from the web anymore and the left has to get that
> 
> who is modding F/M?


so you posted a video off a fash site and you're surprised it's gone.

fucking GET OVER YOURSELF


----------



## cesare (Jun 12, 2013)

treelover said:


> I just posted up the a link to a video that is circulating across the web but mostly on EDL/far right sites about an alleged attack by Asian youths on white youth, noting it could be a gang fight, but the point was the EDL supporters would believe it, you can't hide from the web anymore and the left has to get that
> 
> who is modding F/M?


Just stick it up again (with broken link if it's from somewhere dodgy), you might have got the threads mixed up if you've got a number of tabs open. Or forgotten to post reply or something.

I'd love to know who you mean when you keep referring to "the left" btw.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2013)

cesare said:


> Just stick it up again (with broken link if it's from somewhere dodgy), you might have got the threads mixed up if you've got a number of tabs open. Or forgotten to post reply or something.
> 
> I'd love to know who you mean when you keep referring to "the left" btw.


anyone to the left of nigel farage


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

> so you posted a video off a fash site and you're surprised it's gone.
> 
> fucking GET OVER YOURSELF


 

No, it was on Manchester Gazette site, you can't police what is discussed here, I'm saying it is in the public domain and should be discussed, as I said it may have been a gang fight, all sorts of shit is posted on this thread, this was a legitimate post

and when did threads start getting deleted that didn't cross the FAQ, I smell personal decisions here.


----------



## killer b (Jun 12, 2013)

I bet £10 no ones deleted anything.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2013)

I doubt it's been deleted mate - more likely a glitch with the bb software or you just forgot to press 'post reply' or summat.

just post it again.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

Anyway, just google Manchester Gazette, right column

some appalling comments btl.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2013)

This one?



Not had the chance to watch it yet cos I'm on my way out.


----------



## krink (Jun 12, 2013)

watch the vid with sound down, you lose nothing but some lass constantly screaming to pack it in. looks like  some youths scrapping to me.


----------



## krink (Jun 12, 2013)

treelover said:


> Anyway, just google Manchester Gazette, right column
> 
> some appalling comments btl.


 
I dunno, some were funny


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

> Tommy Robinson will be appearing on BBC3 Free Speech tonight at 7pm, this is a live programme so tune in and listen to Tommy. Episode is called 'are we getting more racist?' so I'm sure it will be a lively debate!!!
> 
> [URL='http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02x90jj[/QUOTE']http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b02x90jj[/URL][/QUOTE]
> 
> from their site, will be explosive I imagine


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 12, 2013)

oh wonderful. question time within a month. desperate shit from whoever at the BBC is chasing all this controversy.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

playing with fire really,

though he may come unstuck as Griffin did on QT


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Jun 12, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> what Im saying is if they are IDed as Fash, or EDL, of course they should be removed, of course not if they are someone who says an edl-esque remark, or starts talking about Muslims using spare rooms as prayer rooms, then they should be enganged in a friendly and understanding way. Horses for courses.


 
Two well-known far-right activists turned up at a Bedroom Tax open air meeting a couple of months ago here in Liverpool. The meeting was already a little fractious as it had been called by the local Labour Party, despite all previous work and campaigning being done by local activists, residents and tenants.

The two lads were surrounded by anti-fascists and were identified as NF / NWI to the crowd. The Labour supporters on the stage noticed something going on and pointed out the disturbance to the police. The two far-right refused to say anything, other than 'they are intimidating us' to the OB and officers and a Labour Party steward then just stood by them for the rest of the meeting. They didn't have any flags or make any other contributions.

Later of course, they did a bit of gloating on FB about how they faced down Antifa etc etc. All in all quite surreal.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 12, 2013)

TR is on the box now, bbc 3.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

he didn't come across well but made a point about who his real audience was, not the primarily middle class students, etc in the F/S audience, but the white working class

that is who he was aiming at, but as usual he got flustered.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2013)

He argues like a child, they look like a varied audience to me, everyone laughed at him.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2013)

But did they in the wider T.V audience, I don't know, but as usual your complacency is astounding


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2013)

Cool


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 12, 2013)

He left after the EDL section it seems.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 12, 2013)

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/98004



> The new head of police domestic extremist units was condemned today after denying that the English Defence League was a right-wing extremist group.


 
.... wtf?


----------



## Favelado (Jun 12, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> oh wonderful. question time within a month. desperate shit from whoever at the BBC is chasing all this controversy.


 
I remember the Griffin onewhere they somehow managed the double fuck-up of having him on in the first place and then making it look like he wasn't being treated fairly as the audience made childish jibes at him. Jibes I completely agreed with but a massively counter-productive event I felt.

I don't think they'll let Tommy on. They don't want that many people with placards around the building coming into work in the morning for one thing.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/98004
> 
> 
> 
> .... wtf?


 
Have a look at the date on that article mate.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 12, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Have a look at the date on that article mate.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> he didn't come across well but made a point about who his real audience was, not the primarily middle class students, etc in the F/S audience, but the white working class
> 
> that is who he was aiming at, but as usual he got flustered.


 


He came across very reasonable compared to the Muslim lady.

Her response should have been "You yourself may not be a racist, but the nature of your protests and the foundation of your group is built on far-right football hooligan culture which leads to a somewhat racist and intimidating presence on your group's marches for local members of the community where you hold your demonstrations".

Instead she just kept screaming "RACIST" at him and refused to provide a response as to why she was accusing him of such.

And yes you're right the complete lack of white working class representation is embarrassing but that's just a fact of life unfortunately.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 13, 2013)

Tommy is really bad at holdin it down, despite regularly coming off reasonable sounding, the minute a bit of pressure is applied, he goes red faced, petulant and ranting.
The programme last night was a perfect example of what the last few pages of this thread were about, with the exception of the black bloke with the afro on the panel, everyone was happy to shout him down as an idiot (this turned out quite fortunate in the end for ol' Tommy, as he would have being fuckin stumped what to say about that solider who was killed in police custody).
If you were even vaguely sympathic to the EDL, this would confirm what you already suspect, the liberal establishment have no interest in addressing your concerns, and are happy to shout you down and call you an idiot.
Now I don't think the bloke should have been given TV time in the first place, but if you're going to have him on, try take his argument apart, not just sound like a liberal loon, shouting racist, racist over and over.
I would have liked to have seen the Newcastle councillor really push him on how, on a platform he arranged, to thousands of memebers of his group, someone shouting in a microphone "send those fuckin black bastards back" got a rousing recpetion if they are not racist, it doesnt matter if Tommy was there or not (he was).


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 13, 2013)

Favelado said:


> I remember the Griffin onewhere they somehow managed the double fuck-up of having him on in the first place and then making it look like he wasn't being treated fairly as the audience made childish jibes at him.


tbh, I didn't form that impression from that show. I thought Griffin simply fucked it up, and came across really badly. Let's face it, when Sayeeda doofus Warsi and Jack Straw make you look stupid, you've not shone.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 13, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Tommy is really bad at holdin it down, despite regularly coming off reasonable sounding, the minute a bit of pressure is applied, he goes red faced, petulant and ranting.
> The programme last night was a perfect example of what the last few pages of this thread were about, with the exception of the black bloke with the afro on the panel, everyone was happy to shout him down as an idiot (this turned out quite fortunate in the end for ol' Tommy, as he would have being fuckin stumped what to say about that solider who was killed in police custody).
> If you were even vaguely sympathic to the EDL, this would confirm what you already suspect, the liberal establishment have no interest in addressing your concerns, and are happy to shout you down and call you an idiot.
> Now I don't think the bloke should have been given TV time in the first place, but if you're going to have him on, try take his argument apart, not just sound like a liberal loon, shouting racist, racist over and over.
> I would have liked to have seen the Newcastle councillor really push him on how, on a platform he arranged, to thousands of memebers of his group, someone shouting in a microphone "send those fuckin black bastards back" got a rousing recpetion if they are not racist, it doesnt matter if Tommy was there or not (he was).


agreed entirely. The capacity of lefties on this sort of show to get it wrong never ceases to depress me.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 13, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no, we have to batter them out of existence nothing else will solve this existential crisis


yes, but at the same time we need to find a way of engaging with, and persuading people who are suckered by their propaganda


----------



## J Ed (Jun 13, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> He came across very reasonable compared to the Muslim lady.


 

Your mask is slipping again.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 13, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Your mask is slipping again.


 

Did you watch the programme? If so you'd agree.

I knew I recognised that lady before. She was from the apprentice.


----------



## krink (Jun 13, 2013)

here's some 'left'  responses to tommy's tv appearance


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 13, 2013)

I've got the triple crown - balding, missing teeth and ex-binman.


----------



## krink (Jun 13, 2013)

can guess which twitter user's dad and brother worked on the bins?


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 13, 2013)

Bin men are outside my house right now. How ironic.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> Bin men are outside my house right now. How ironic.


It's not really ironic at all is it? Or very interesting.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 13, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Your mask is slipping again.


 
This guy is a pure troll.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 13, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's not really ironic at all is it? Or very interesting.


 

Suppose it isn't to you guys. Haven't slept last night.


----------



## krink (Jun 13, 2013)

This is irony; my brother, the ex-bin man, supports the edl.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> Suppose it isn't to you guys. Haven't slept last night.


 
You should force yourself to kid before you complete your sleep deprivation driven transformation into Alanis Morissette


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 13, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> You should force yourself to kid before you complete your sleep deprivation driven transformation into Alanis Morissette


 

haaaaaaaa

night guys x


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2013)




----------



## andysays (Jun 13, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I've got the triple crown - balding, missing teeth and *ex*-binman.


 
Couldn't even stick at that, eh? Now we *know* you're a wrong 'un...


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 13, 2013)

krink said:


> This is irony; my brother, the ex-bin man, supports the edl.


 

Not these......


sorry thats the ldv


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jun 13, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I've got the triple crown - balding, missing teeth and ex-binman.



Balding, missing teeth and ex-milkman here.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2013)

Skinhead, missing teeth, bit of a beer gut. Ex pipe-fitter (white van man  )


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 13, 2013)

Random quote from EDl facebook.



> Yes it was a disgraceful performance. not one of the 200 audience members or people in the panel could explain how Tommy was being racist or a bigot. However Tommy did a fantastic job and stayed strong. I believe he has woken even more people up by what he said.


 
People need to understand that potential EDl supporters have a completely different perception. Instead of analysis we see complacency from the very people who have set about trying to monoplize resistance to the EDL.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 13, 2013)

You can't win with him when they offered evidance in the youtube clip of send the "balck cunts home" he said it was fabricated.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 13, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> You can't win with him when they offered evidance in the youtube clip of send the "balck cunts home" he said it was fabricated.


 
They should have played that video for everyone to see and showed the sieg heiling photo posted on this thread, just to drive the point home.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

I never used to go on FB when the BNP were doing well, but I notice EDl are posting up every possible racist incident,, this time its army cadets getting attacked in Preston


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Random quote from EDl facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> People need to understand that potential EDl supporters have a completely different perception. Instead of analysis we see complacency from the very people who have set about trying to monoplize resistance to the EDL.


 

It a major problem Middle Class left, has everywhere, in the US a book called ''What's the Matter With Kansas'', examined the complete alienation of the democrats with blue collar republicans, xtians, etc, etc.


----------



## nutnut (Jun 13, 2013)

pedant : Green Street, if your referring to the ICF, Cass Penant was once a top bod and he was Black. Would the EDL recruit him?


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> It a major problem Middle Class left


 
Yes, seeing working class people as a frightful problem.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

Whats worrying is the absolute contempt by hundreds, maybe thousands of posters on the EDL FB site for the 'lefties'

are they all fascists, racists, maybe, but if they are not, then its not good.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> It a major problem Middle Class left, has everywhere, in the US a book called ''What's the Matter With Kansas'', examined the complete alienation of the democrats with blue collar republicans, xtians, etc, etc.


 

I'm quite interested in this subject treelover, is it available online?


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> Yes, seeing working class people as a frightful problem.


 
it oozes out of the comments on the FB page Spiney posted on the AFA thread.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I'm quite interested in this subject treelover, is it available online?


 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What's_the_Matter_with_Kansas?


One of the Yes Men did a talk here at Doc Fest at the time about the issue.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2013)

nutnut said:


> pedant : Green Street, if your referring to the ICF, Cass Penant was once a top bod and he was Black. Would the EDL recruit him?


 
There are no 'top bods' in the EDL from known football firms with the exception of the occasional appearance of  the celebrity d list Jeff Marsh


----------



## nutnut (Jun 13, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> There are no 'top bods' in the EDL from known football firms with the exception of the occasional appearance of the celebrity d list Jeff Marsh


 
I said Cass Penant was a 'top bod' in the ICF.


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

I've never had any time for the SWP, but I get the impression Duncan Hallas was a bit more sussed when it came to tackling the far right, is this correct


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 13, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> There are no 'top bods' in the EDL from known football firms with the exception of the occasional appearance of the celebrity d list Jeff Marsh


 
Tried to get freedom to order me a review copy of Marshs book from the publisher, never arrived.


----------



## nutnut (Jun 13, 2013)

Anyway the EDL are better off with Jodie Marsh.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 13, 2013)

nutnut said:


> Anyway the EDL are better off with Jodie Marsh.


you wot?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2013)

nutnut said:


> I said Cass Penant was a 'top bod' in the ICF.


 
I can just about read short sentences. You also asked if the EDL would have recruited him.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Tried to get freedom to order me a review copy of Marshs book from the publisher, never arrived.


 
The anarchist scene isn't reliable in my opinion


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 13, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> The anarchist scene isn't reliable in my opinion


think it might have being more a case of Mashed Swede, the publisher, not wanting to send it to an anarcho paper for review.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> think it might have being more a case of Mashed Swede, the publisher, not wanting to send it to an anarcho paper for review.


 
probably as lets face it a review in Freedom may not be the pinnacle achievement of any marketing campaign


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 13, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> probably as lets face it a review in Freedom may not be the pinnacle achievement of any marketing campaign


I wasnt going to review it, I just wanted to read it without payin' for it, love a bit of the 'aul hoolilit.plus Marsh seemed to publish it himself.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> I wasnt going to review it, I just wanted to read it without payin' for it, love a bit of the 'aul hoolilit.plus Marsh seemed to publish it himself.


 
Fine with me


----------



## treelover (Jun 13, 2013)

On the 15th June in Brighton, there is a march to support the Cityclean workers, at the moment 70 people are going on FB,


this is the radical city where thousands took on the EDL recently...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2013)

nutnut said:


> pedant : Green Street, if your referring to the ICF, Cass Penant was once a top bod and he was Black. Would the EDL recruit him?


 
They had a young black hooligan as their youth organiser in the early days - Joel something or other if memory serves. Think he got locked up though.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 13, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> They had a young black hooligan as their youth organiser in the early days - Joel something or other if memory serves. Think he got locked up though.


 
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...anned-from-every-football-ground-8388934.html


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2013)

treelover said:


> On the 15th June in Brighton, there is a march to support the Cityclean workers, at the moment 70 people are going on FB,
> 
> 
> this is the radical city where thousands took on the EDL recently...


 
A fair point but it's worth remebering that many (probably most) of them were liberals, labourites and even Tories who don't even pretend to care about that kind of stuff.

Edit: which says a lot about the bankruptcy of UAF's model of liberal antifascism, something that's been discussed at length on this thread and many others.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 13, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...anned-from-every-football-ground-8388934.html


 
That's the fella!


----------



## Firky (Jun 13, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...anned-from-every-football-ground-8388934.html


 
Christ, he was only 19 when he was banned.

What happened to Guramit Singh who joined the EDL?


----------



## Firky (Jun 13, 2013)

Singh:

http://www.turbancampaign.com/updat...unce-edl-by-vaisakhi-or-face-excommunication/


----------



## Lorca (Jun 13, 2013)

Guramit Singh features heavily in this vice documentary about the celtic - rangers rivalry


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 13, 2013)

Lorca you're a fucking idiot.


----------



## Lorca (Jun 13, 2013)

charming!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 13, 2013)

Lorca said:


> charming!


 
Guramit Singh doesn't feature at all in your video. That's Abdul.

But they all look the same, right?


----------



## Lorca (Jun 13, 2013)

ah, fair enough, honest mistake though, no offence intended.


----------



## Lorca (Jun 13, 2013)

actually, that was pretty idiotic of me to be fair, apologies, must pay more attention!


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 13, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> They had a young black hooligan as their youth organiser in the early days - Joel something or other if memory serves. Think he got locked up though.


bottler. nuff said!


----------



## protesticals (Jun 14, 2013)

Firky said:


> Singh:
> 
> http://www.turbancampaign.com/updat...unce-edl-by-vaisakhi-or-face-excommunication/


 
And the prize for the emptiest threat ever goes to "turban campaign".


----------



## J Ed (Jun 14, 2013)

Firky said:


> Singh:
> 
> http://www.turbancampaign.com/updat...unce-edl-by-vaisakhi-or-face-excommunication/


 
So Sikhs can be excommunicated? Learn something new every day!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 14, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> The anarchist scene isn't reliable in my opinion


 

well one of these days we are going to get it together and challenge that assumption!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 14, 2013)

joel titus was on the receiving end of racist abuse and backed out after being nicked, guramit been accused of borrowing cash and never paying it back, abdul the glaswegian loyalist is very confused. marsh's book are shite. his local welsh firm consider him a joke. there have never been any 'proper firms' involved EDL.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 14, 2013)

Marsh spends a lot of time in Cardiff for someone who lives in Spain now.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 14, 2013)

marsh is a bullshitter, casuals united are just him and 2 girls, kylie and chardonnay. why anyone bothers with the fat twat i dunno.


----------



## cesare (Jun 14, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> well one of these days we are going to get it together and challenge that assumption!


Don't do that!


----------



## Firky (Jun 14, 2013)

protesticals said:


> And the prize for the emptiest threat ever goes to "turban campaign".


 
Where is the threat and why did you use quotations? Bit odd.



> The Turban Campaign is an independent unaffiliated initiative that seeks to challenge negative perceptions of the Sikh community through collective efforts and strategic campaigning. We also incubate and support campaigns that provide progressive political action, that delivers equality and social justice.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 14, 2013)

cesare said:


> Don't do that!


 
i wasnt, i cant be arsed.


----------



## cesare (Jun 14, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i wasnt, i cant be arsed.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 14, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> joel titus was on the receiving end of racist abuse and backed out after being nicked, guramit been accused of borrowing cash and never paying it back, abdul the glaswegian loyalist is very confused. marsh's book are shite. his local welsh firm consider him a joke. there have never been any 'proper firms' involved EDL.


 
Aint too welcome up in Manchesters red side either.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 14, 2013)

apparently not. he is fuck all.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 14, 2013)

Firky said:


> Where is the threat and why did you use quotations? Bit odd.


The supposed threat is that the man in question will be expelled from Sikhism. The only real threat is that a couple of people will make a complaint and nothing will happen.

Quotation marks should have used one and not two. Just to indicate that this a named group .


----------



## protesticals (Jun 14, 2013)

removed due to double post


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 14, 2013)

you can say that again.


----------



## Firky (Jun 14, 2013)

I am going to take a wild guess and say you're not a Sikh. I am not either but being excommunicated from Sikhism would be a pretty big deal if you're a Sikh I am assuming. I'll ask one of my mates on Facebook if it's a big deal.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 14, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> apparently not. he is fuck all.


 
Quite right


----------



## Corax (Jun 14, 2013)

treelover said:


> I just posted up the a link to a video that is circulating across the web but mostly on EDL/far right sites about an alleged attack by Asian youths on white youth in Ashton, ting it could be a gang fight, but the point was the EDL supporters would believe it, you can't hide from the web anymore and the left has to get that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


> Finally we get to hear what really happened in Ashton from the kids the #EDL are using to justify tomorrow's demo pic.twitter.com/Xas08V2MiY


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 14, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> marsh is a bullshitter, casuals united are just him and 2 girls, kylie and chardonnay. why anyone bothers with the fat twat i dunno.


 
Somebody said he'd mallowed a bit


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 14, 2013)




----------



## bignose1 (Jun 14, 2013)

Last night I dreamt I saved Griffins life. He was trapped by jihadists after a rally and I got him away. We became friends and went on holiday but he eventually shot me with a spear gun.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 14, 2013)

Thats cheese on toast at half eleven at night for you...!


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 14, 2013)

Dadaists used to eat cheese on toast before going to bed and look what they produced;







Yes, pictures of Nick Griffin before he was even born.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 15, 2013)

treelover said:


> he didn't come across well but made a point about who his real audience was, not the primarily middle class students, etc in the F/S audience, but the white working class
> 
> that is who he was aiming at, but as usual he got flustered.



That's exactly the sort of thing he needs to be challenged on - I don't get why 'radical Islam' is solely or mainly a WC issue - what does he actually mean by this? Does it affect WC communities more? Are WC concerns/impacts being neglected relative to other social groups. Anybody have a clue what he means by this?

I don't actually understand what the EDL is trying to achieve relative to their stated aims - are their actions likely to result in less Islamic fundamentalism, or more? What do they actually want done about it? If it's government policy, why aren't protests targeted at the government rather than selected cities?  Marching on Islamic communities and shouting islamaphobic abuse at anyone brown is counterproductive to de-radicalising Islamist youth, surely?

Unless, y'know, this isn't just about 'radical Islam' and is something a bit broader...


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 15, 2013)

Hello all.

I've seen one or two comments from Yaxley-Lennon about how the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were really bad and have caused division in Britain, been meaning to do some digging on it. Anyone seen anything similar?

I remain convinced that a lot of this stuff is directly related to the failure of the anti-war movement back in the early 2000's.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 15, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> Hello all.
> 
> I've seen one or two comments from Yaxley-Lennon about how the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were really bad and have caused division in Britain, been meaning to do some digging on it. Anyone seen anything similar?
> 
> I remain convinced that a lot of this stuff is directly related to the failure of the anti-war movement back in the early 2000's.


 
Apparently not....according to Gove's bully-boy...



> *Failure by Britain's comprehensive schools risks fuelling the drift by jobless and unskilled groups toward extremist organisations such as the English Defence League*, the government's chief inspector of schools, Sir Michael Wilshaw, has warned.
> The consequences of underachievement in state schools are a grave moral and political danger, as well as an economic failure, Wilshaw said in an interview...
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jun/14/failure-schools-edl-michael-wilshaw


 
The daily tirade of invective against the teaching profession takes a new turn....


----------



## J Ed (Jun 15, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Apparently not....according to Gove's bully-boy...
> 
> 
> 
> The daily tirade of invective against the teaching profession takes a new turn....


 

It's a good one. So you don't want comprehensives to be taken over and turned into academies run by American multinationals, what are you, a _racist_?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 15, 2013)

EDL protest on Fargate in Sheffield right now apparently.


----------



## belboid (Jun 15, 2013)

J Ed said:


> EDL protest on Fargate in Sheffield right now apparently.


NF I heard - moved on and put on a train by police


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 15, 2013)

I wonder what Sir Michael Wilshaw thinks about Michael Gove's Celsius 7/7, a sub Andrew Gilligan style attempt to cash in on anti-muslim hatred in the aftermath of the 7/7 attacks and make a name for himself as the _Tory who really hates Muslims_ in his all-consuming desire to be Prime Minister. I wonder if that sort of thing might be more to blame for fuelling the EDL perhaps?

EDIT: I've read the thing and it's awful, I daresay it was ghost-written, but just for shits and giggles here's some of the reviews I've found:



> This really is too bad to waste words on. Before reading this offal, perform a supraorbital lobotomy, pickle your frontal lobes, puree them unspiced, and then pour back in through your upper eyelids. Now you have entered the bizzare, racist, ranting, imbecility of Gove's mindset. And this man has something to do with UK policy ... it couldn't have happened without Murdoch.


 


> Thee nastiest book I have read for many years. Full of poisonous prejudices, historical howlers and axe-grinding. Really astonishing and alarming that this man is in charge of UK school education


 


> Clearly Gove has no idea what he's talking about in this book. The book is thinly disguised anti-Arab propaganda from a man who is a Tory MP - he personfies who ignorant "Middle England" has become. The book is a manifesto, not an investigation or historical work.





> Please don't buy this rubbish, instead get Lawrence Wright's "The Looming Tower" and found out the difference between a real investigative journalist and not this talentless, Tory hack.


 


> Utter tripe. Interesting to see claims that he has hardly visited a Muslim country or sought anyone of who is genuinely knowledgeable on the subject. Rather like he is proceeding with his 'project' on our education system, ignoring the voices of those with real expertise in his attempt to lead us bravely back to the 1950's. Gove is a very intelligent man. Unfortunately he thinks this means he does not need to listen to anyone else. He will wreck our education. He will do more harm to this country's children than a thousand terrorists.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 15, 2013)

belboid said:


> NF I heard - moved on and put on a train by police


 

Do you know what it's about? My friend says there have been rumours about attempts at grooming (I can't stand the way this word is used but prior to a crime being committed I can't think of a better one) outside Sheffield schools.


----------



## belboid (Jun 15, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Do you know what it's about? My friend says there have been rumours about attempts at grooming (I can't stand the way this word is used but prior to a crime being committed I can't think of a better one) outside Sheffield schools.


That sounds like a bollocks excuse to me, I'd imagine it was just making a point after the last couple of weeks.


----------



## andysays (Jun 15, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> I wonder what Sir Michael Wilshaw thinks about Michael Gove's Celsius 7/7, a sub Andrew Gilligan style attempt to cash in on anti-muslim hatred in the aftermath of the 7/7 attacks and make a name for himself as the _Tory who really hates Muslims_ in his all-consuming desire to be Prime Minister. I wonder if that sort of thing might be more to blame for fuelling the EDL perhaps?


 



			
				Sir Michael Wilshaw said:
			
		

> Gove junior's imagination appears to be more active than his ability to construct a realistic narrative, though I suspect this is based more on following examples of the political thriller genre than genuine creativity. Of little value as either English Composition, Historical analysis or Political persuasion. Michael must realise that while this sort of thing may suffice at Key Stage 3, now that he is soon to complete his GCSE work, a far higher standard is required


----------



## BlackArab (Jun 15, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Apparently not....according to Gove's bully-boy...
> 
> 
> 
> The daily tirade of invective against the teaching profession takes a new turn....


 

I read the article and got a different impression 

_Wilshaw is preparing to kickstart his second national debate of the month, when he gives a speech on Thursday which he said would discuss "what we need to do as a nation to address the needs of our poorest children, most of whom reside in white British populations. *It is an issue that can only be tackled by central government, taking very clear and decisive action on this. *_and 


_The truth, Wilshaw said, was that *non-selective state schools had a more demanding role than their counterparts in the independent sector*, which he appeared to suggest were soft in comparison._
_*"Comprehensive schools have a more difficult job.* They are teaching the most able children as well as the least able. They are teaching children from a diverse range of backgrounds. They are teaching youngsters who could come from difficult backgrounds. They have more behavioural issues in the state sector._


----------



## one 2 3 (Jun 15, 2013)

*G M Police* ‏@gmpolice6h​We have been notified by the EDL that their protest in Ashton is cancelled. Police will remain in the area to ensure business as usual.

*Nick Adderley* ‏@CSNickAdderley5h​Rumours of 200 EDL in Ashton are untrue. Peaceful protest so far, atmosphere fine, 50 protesters.

Biggest street movement


----------



## J Ed (Jun 15, 2013)

This is doing the rounds on social media


----------



## Corax (Jun 15, 2013)

BlackArab said:


> The truth, Wilshaw said, was that non-selective state schools had a more demanding role than their counterparts in the independent sector, which he appeared to suggest were soft in comparison.
> "Comprehensive schools have a more difficult job. _*They are teaching** the most able*_ children as well as the least able._* They are teaching children from*_ a diverse range of backgrounds. _*They are teaching youngsters who*_ could come from difficult backgrounds. _*They have more behavioural issues*_ in the state sector.


 
We should recruit teachers that don't have as many behavioural issues.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 15, 2013)

would a school really send that out? and stating 'asian men' ??


----------



## Corax (Jun 15, 2013)

ddraig said:


> would a school really send that out? and stating 'asian men' ??


 
Of course they would.  And they'd robustly defend the description as well.  Think of the children etc.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 15, 2013)

There are no other similar photos on social media, just that one, so it may not be genuine. The EDL constantly leadership make shit up, the Ashton Under Lyne incident wasn't racist, but Tommy Robinson tried to get the young woman who was attacked to say it was.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 15, 2013)

So the thing here is? Corax has me on ignore, so i'll ask craig? The issue here is?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 15, 2013)

ddraig said:


> would a school really send that out? and stating 'asian men' ??


 
Why wouldn't they?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 15, 2013)

it was just a question, i've no kids and have never seen any note like this so just asking
was thinking they'd need some proof surely? (whatever the reported race was before anyone starts)


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 15, 2013)

ddraig said:


> it was just a question, i've no kids and have never seen any note like this so just asking
> was thinking they'd need some proof surely? (whatever the reported race was before anyone starts)


 
No, I've seen schools send letters like that out. They don't need proof to say "We've had reports of.."


----------



## ddraig (Jun 15, 2013)

ok thanks


----------



## brogdale (Jun 15, 2013)

BlackArab said:


> I read the article and got a different impression
> 
> _Wilshaw is preparing to kickstart his second national debate of the month, when he gives a speech on Thursday which he said would discuss "what we need to do as a nation to address the needs of our poorest children, most of whom reside in white British populations. *It is an issue that can only be tackled by central government, taking very clear and decisive action on this. *_and
> 
> ...


 
Like alot of tory education policy-talk, Wilshaw's words are couched in terms of social mobility, equality and opportunity, but as we all know that's just bollocks. It is not credible for capitalist lackey politicos to accelerate widening inequality and impoverishment of the working class, and then tell state school teachers it is their responsibility to 'narrow the gap'. As for blaming 'failing' schools for EDL support; that's beyond contempt.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 15, 2013)

J Ed said:


> This is doing the rounds on social media


 

Exact same text used here


----------



## BlackArab (Jun 15, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Like alot of tory education policy-talk, Wilshaw's words are couched in terms of social mobility, equality and opportunity, but as we all know that's just bollocks. It is not credible for capitalist lackey politicos to accelerate widening inequality and impoverishment of the working class, and then tell state school teachers it is their responsibility to 'narrow the gap'. As for blaming 'failing' schools for EDL support; that's beyond contempt.


 

Can't argue you with what your saying but there is a wider issue that needs to be looked at with education policies from Ministerial level down. And yep I share your scepticism on whether the state actually wishes real change. Unfortunately through my professional role I see a little evidence of it.


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## legz (Jun 15, 2013)

Normally, any kind of incident sent out by a school to parents of this nature, is also known to police, surely?

South Yorks Police website shows nothing related to this.

It does mention the 'demo' on Fargate this afternoon, however. British Movement???

I was in Sheffield city centre today around that time, not too far from Fargate. Lots of leafletters out and about anyway from various groups, like there usually is. Didn't notice a fash presence, or even much of a police presence. Not heard anything mentioned elsewhere, either. Must have blinked and missed it


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## J Ed (Jun 15, 2013)

legz said:


> Normally, any kind of incident sent out by a school to parents of this nature, is also known to police, surely?


 
Yeah, it seems to be bullshit.


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## treelover (Jun 16, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Apparently not....according to Gove's bully-boy...
> 
> 
> 
> The daily tirade of invective against the teaching profession takes a new turn....


 

Wilshaw is a placeman, put in especially by the Tories, event the Limp Dems objected to him being chosen for the post.


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## SpackleFrog (Jun 16, 2013)

legz said:


> Normally, any kind of incident sent out by a school to parents of this nature, is also known to police, surely?
> 
> South Yorks Police website shows nothing related to this.
> 
> ...



It can't have been long-got a text asking for back up and by the time I got there it was all over. Leaflets were horrible though, and they were genuine BM.


----------



## treelover (Jun 16, 2013)

http://news.sky.com/story/1104229/police-officer-stabbed-in-mosque-attack

Sky News is reporting four people stabbed including a police officer inside a Mosque in Birmingam and a man has been arrested, the other media doesn't seem to be reporting it, I hope its some sort of M/H issue, bad as that is, as it is only a few weeks before the EDL demo as well.

its breaking on other media, fucking hell its all awful...


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 16, 2013)

treelover said:


> http://news.sky.com/story/1104229/police-officer-stabbed-in-mosque-attack
> 
> Sky News is reporting four people stabbed including a police officer inside a Mosque in Birmingam and a man has been arrested, the other media doesn't seem to be reporting it, I hope its some sort of M/H issue, bad as that is, as it is only a few weeks before the EDL demo as well.
> 
> its breaking on other media, fucking hell its all awful...



I know what you mean, but in terms of political fall out probably the best that you can hope for is that the attacker was heavily involved in the EDL and has a swastika tattooed on his face.

This is not good at all far too many nasty incidents seemingly linked to the murder of Lee Rugby. The whole country feels like dry kindling at the moment.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 16, 2013)

> Eyewitnesses report that a man of Somali appearance began attacking worshippers with a machete.


 


> According to Mr Shafiq, a nearby resident believed the dispute was a domestic incident between members.


 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22924456


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 16, 2013)




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## malatesta32 (Jun 16, 2013)

Report on ashton EDL do. 

6-7 edl in cuffs or pulled in by the cops and pictured most - police reported 4 arrests. The march had about 100-150 in it, lots of young uns & new faces that could be locals, 3 biker divvies; nwi/nwa/edl/bnp faces there. diddyfiddler was hiding from the limelight for some reason but was snapped. 3-4 firecrackers let off in the direction of itv cameramen. There were 80-100 other patriot types not marching but on the sidelines watching. There were no speeches by edl - cops could not liase with the key ashton leader according to tamside edl.cops said they did not know which way edl planned to leave the protest site then they took the decision to lead them back to the station, pen them and then let them go i dribs and drabs. The 20 or so that came into the station via the tram were from Leeds edl and included the blonde woman gail speights mate who seemed to become a leader of sorts. There were a couple of american flags, the jewish one, nwi some local edl ones but although edl lgbt tommy was there he did not bring his gay pride flag for some reason! Oh there were a number of babies in buggies with silly mothers marching too as well as a couple of blokes that couldnt keep their hands away from their dicks.


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## malatesta32 (Jun 16, 2013)




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## malatesta32 (Jun 16, 2013)




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## butchersapron (Jun 16, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> I know what you mean, but in terms of political fall out probably the best that you can hope for is that the attacker was heavily involved in the EDL and has a swastika tattooed on his face.
> 
> This is not good at all far too many nasty incidents seemingly linked to the murder of Lee Rugby. The whole country feels like dry kindling at the moment.


 
Why would that be politically good? That would be the absolute worst thing surely - precisely because of what you go on to point out in your second paragraph.


----------



## Sweet FA (Jun 16, 2013)

ddraig said:


> would a school really send that out? and stating 'asian men' ??


Yup, it's on the Bradfield School website as an 'urgent update.' The woman whose name's on the Hillsborough school letter is the Child Protection Liaison Officer for the school so it seems legit.


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## butchersapron (Jun 16, 2013)

He's on the politics show with the neil in a bit.


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## cdg (Jun 16, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> He's on the politics show with the neil in a bit.


 
Was on my way to post that.


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## Dogsauce (Jun 16, 2013)

Doesn't say anything about the religion of the alleged school lurkers, does it?

The fact they are of 'Asian appearance' is apparently enough for Mr Yaxley-Lennon.


'Not racist' my arse.


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## Ranbay (Jun 16, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> He's on the politics show with the neil in a bit.


 
Best one yet, they called him out on loads of stuff for a change.


----------



## treelover (Jun 16, 2013)

How do people think Robinson handled it, imo, he did 'very well' and managed to get his points out, appear as a 'family man' , batted away questions on his past and only got flustered at points where he took a drink then got back on track, it wasn't Neils finest hour, I think TR is now getting some very good media training, I think he could move away from being a figure of satire.


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## malatesta32 (Jun 16, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Best one yet, they called him out on loads of stuff for a change.


 

edit: they seem to give him an easy go of it most times. didn't see this one but the researchers and interviewers are just as clueless about 'radical islam'' as he is.


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## cdg (Jun 16, 2013)

treelover said:


> How do people think Robinson handled it, imo, he did 'very well' and managed to get his points out, appear as a 'family man' , batted away questions on his past and only got flustered at points where he took a drink then got back on track, it wasn't Neils finest hour, I think TR is now getting some very good media training, I think he could move away from being a figure of satire.


 
Hmm yes I thought that too tbh and despite efforts to get him riled he stayed calm.


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## J Ed (Jun 16, 2013)

The EDL is getting press coverage that Nick Griffin could only dream of, on both sides of the Atlantic, what is going on?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 16, 2013)

At least they backed up the claims, normally they say stuff and he's just lies his way around it. Was hoping they would show the "send the black cunts home" video or the nazi salutes ones from the other week.


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## brogdale (Jun 16, 2013)

treelover said:


> How do people think Robinson handled it, imo, he did 'very well' and managed to get his points out, appear as a 'family man' , batted away questions on his past and only got flustered at points where he took a drink then got back on track, it wasn't Neils finest hour, I think TR is now getting some very good media training, I think he could move away from being a figure of satire.


 
I think I'd largely agree that he 'did well' with some pretty obvious, pre-prepared responses to the obvious questions that Neil would throw at him. Thought Neil's researchers left his accusations looking rather vague, and hence fairly easy for TR to rebuff. Neil also seemed a little clueless about how to engage with a pressure/political group with a claim of no formal membership list. Difficult to discern to what degree TR's media ability is down to training or raw intellect/nerve, but his nervous looking, off camera glances (to 'minders'?) and the reliance on the cup of coffee prop did give the (intended?) impression of the under-dog.

Most worryingly, I can imagine that my working class, UKIP voting father would have found alot of what he said attractive.


----------



## treelover (Jun 16, 2013)

brogdale said:


> I think I'd largely agree that he 'did well' with some pretty obvious, pre-prepared responses to the obvious questions that Neil would throw at him. Thought Neil's researchers left his accusations looking rather vague, and hence fairly easy for TR to rebuff. *Neil also seemed a little clueless about how to engage with a pressure/political group with a claim of no formal membership list*. Difficult to discern to what degree TR's media ability is down to training or raw intellect/nerve, but his nervous looking, off camera glances (to 'minders'?) and the reliance on the cup of coffee prop did give the (intended?) impression of the under-dog.
> 
> Most worryingly, I can imagine that my working class, UKIP voting father would have found alot of what he said attractive.


 
This, Neil seemed out of his depth with a non traditional political entity which is not(for now) looking for votes, but feet/boots on the street, though the logic of social change is that if the group is to become more widely accepted it will have to temper its message, especially anything to do with violence, which overall is not popular in England as political expression.


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## Corax (Jun 16, 2013)

They have a group called the NWA?!


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## malatesta32 (Jun 16, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> At least they backed up the claims, normally they say stuff and he's just lies his way around it. Was hoping they would show the "send the black cunts home" video or the nazi salutes ones from the other week.


 

fat chance bob!


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## malatesta32 (Jun 16, 2013)

its NWI - infidels. a splinter group who are much more far right and hate tommy - cos tommy is on telly and they aint!


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## Corax (Jun 16, 2013)

treelover said:
			
		

> How do people think Robinson handled it, imo, he did 'very well' and managed to get his points out, appear as a 'family man' , batted away questions on his past and only got flustered at points where he took a drink then got back on track, it wasn't Neils finest hour, I think TR is now getting some very good media training, I think he could move away from being a figure of satire.



I was thinking the same about the training. I was watching one of his post Woolwich videos the other day and his hand movements were straight out of the Tony Blair school of public speaking. His content was also much more calculated than previously - lots about how great the Sikhs are, how much he likes the Amidiyah Muslims, but then finished off with an angry rant about the wives and children of soldiers living in fear. Something for everyone.


----------



## Corax (Jun 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:
			
		

> its NWI - infidels. a splinter group who are much more far right and hate tommy - cos tommy is on telly and they aint!



No, I thought it was a typo of NWI at first. But if you look at that screenshot NWA is referred to a few times, and then there's a post by the "North West Alliance".


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## Delroy Booth (Jun 16, 2013)

He comes accross better than he used to, but it's still not hard to catch him out. I don't think most people believe the "we're not racist, honest" stuff and never have - the EDL won that reputation for themselves by acting consistently racist since they started. Racist chants at demos and nazi salutes don't help. The way they act makes people think they're just a re-run of the NF, and it's one of the reasons why they ended up declining because that sort of stuff alienates a lot of people who might otherwise support the anti-Islamic extremism stuff.

The more interesting question is to do with why is he getting all the publicity now? They're getting indulged massively, more than Griffin ever was and Griffin actually had a much more solid claim to be being entitled time on the BBC, on the back of his MEP status and the number of councillors the BNP had, than the EDL ever has.


----------



## cesare (Jun 16, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> He comes accross better than he used to, but it's still not hard to catch him out. I don't think most people believe the "we're not racist, honest" stuff and never have - the EDL won that reputation for themselves by acting consistently racist since they started. Racist chants at demos and nazi salutes don't help. The way they act makes people think they're just a re-run of the NF, and it's one of the reasons why they ended up declining because that sort of stuff alienates a lot of people who might otherwise support the anti-Islamic extremism stuff.
> 
> The more interesting question is to do with why is he getting all the publicity now? They're getting indulged massively, more than Griffin ever was and Griffin actually had a much more solid claim to be being entitled time on the BBC, on the back of his MEP status and the number of councillors the BNP had, than the EDL ever has.


I imagine it's possibly to do with why the state quite likes A-to-B marches - legitimising an outlet for dissent that can then be controlled.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 16, 2013)

cesare said:


> I imagine it's possibly to do with why the state quite likes A-to-B marches - legitimising an outlet for dissent that can then be controlled.


 
And I reckon the state probably wants those marches to be kept under the EDL umbrella, rather than continuing splintering off into all these little mini-groups which are harder to track and infiltrate as we've seen happen as the EDL imploded last year.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 16, 2013)

https://twitter.com/afneil

After EDL interview I've had death threats, been called a Muslim (whatever), an IRA sympathiser and of course a c***. All in a day's work.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 16, 2013)

Well, he is a c***. People have been calling him that for a while, though.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 16, 2013)

Just had a long drawn out argument with an EDL member on Twitter. Asserts that he's not racist. Didn't really cover much but I suggested that we do a proper blog discussion at some point and he was up for it. Good idea?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 16, 2013)

Try it. Ask them what the EDL is actually for/against, and how they aim to achieve this, and ask how he thinks what they're doing at the moment helps this. Ask if they think what the EDL are protesting about 'on behalf of the working class' is actual the biggest problem facing the working class, white or otherwise, or I they can think of anything else that might be more significant. Ask if they think they might be a state-endorsed diversion from these other problems. 

Ask why Tommy is making a fuss about potential paedos hanging around a school in Ashton and why the EDL is protesting about this, and how it fits with their aims. Then ask why, if all they have is a description of the 'predators' as 'Asian' with no mention of religion, that protesting this isn't being done on the basis of race alone? Isn't that a bit racist?

My concern at the moment is that the media attention they are now getting justifies what they have been doing. Shame it doesn't work for anyone else holding protests.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 16, 2013)

These 'strong' EDL fronts seem to be being treated differently by the police than the EDL itself is


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## OneStrike (Jun 16, 2013)

YouSir said:


> Just had a long drawn out argument with an EDL member on Twitter. Asserts that he's not racist. Didn't really cover much but I suggested that we do a proper blog discussion at some point and he was up for it. Good idea?


 
As someone not involved, yes!   If he/she is willing to engage in a debate, have it.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 16, 2013)

YouSir said:


> Just had a long drawn out argument with an EDL member on Twitter. Asserts that he's not racist. Didn't really cover much but I suggested that we do a proper blog discussion at some point and he was up for it. Good idea?


Do you want to have a pointless argument with comment sections full of trolls? Fair enough, some people enjoy that sort of thing, but if you don't then no.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why would that be politically good? That would be the absolute worst thing surely - precisely because of what you go on to point out in your second paragraph.



Well obviously there's no circumstance in which it would be "good" but basically I was hoping that the headline would be "man stabs police officer" as opposed to "Muslim stabs police officer". And if the attacker had been an EDL member it would have done a lot more to put people off them than Andrew bloody Neil.

On a separate UAF-are-shit type point, this article from the Torygraph today speaks volumes. It scares me that I agree with some if it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journali...2496/Anti-fascists-fuel-the-fire-of-hate.html


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

OneStrike said:


> As someone not involved, yes!   If he/she is willing to engage in a debate, have it.



If you're gonna do it, look through their twitter feed first; it might be worth it, might not.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 17, 2013)

Reads a bit like a shitty hatchet job to me, with no real reply from UAF, though some of the criticisms are valid and have been voiced in this thread.

But they're doing that thing of lumping all anti-fascists together as the UAF, which is not ever the case, even if it's UAF-organised events people turn up for.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> Reads a bit like a shitty hatchet job to me, with no real reply from UAF, though some of the criticisms are valid and have been voiced in this thread.
> 
> But they're doing that thing of lumping all anti-fascists together as the UAF, which is not ever the case, even if it's UAF-organised events people turn up for.



Maybe but the fact it alleges that the UAF held a protest on a war memorial and the EDL didn't even show is a bit worrying. They asked Weymann Bennett for comment.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 17, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> Reads a bit like a shitty hatchet job to me, with no real reply from UAF, though some of the criticisms are valid and have been voiced in this thread.
> 
> But they're doing that thing of lumping all anti-fascists together as the UAF, which is not ever the case, even if it's UAF-organised events people turn up for.


 
It's Andrew Gilligan ffs it's not like he hasn't got form. His previous article about TellMAMA and how anti-muslim attacks are made up was a risible attempt to excuse and apologise for the EDL terrorising muslims - regardless of how accurate TellMAMA is there's been a definite increase in anti-muslim bigotry, this is not something conjoured up out of the imaginations of the Vast Islamo-Marxist Left-wing Globalist conspiracy. Surely he must realise that article would come back to haunt him the next time some Breivik type nutter goes and kills a load of people?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 17, 2013)

J Ed said:


> These 'strong' EDL fronts seem to be being treated differently by the police than the EDL itself is


 
Actually its main stream practise to invite march leaders to meet with the Police. Normally the EDL turn up but UAF doesn't.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 17, 2013)

Corax said:


> No, I thought it was a typo of NWI at first. But if you look at that screenshot NWA is referred to a few times, and then there's a post by the "North West Alliance".


 
they clearly havent heard strait out of compton then?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 17, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, he is a c***. People have been calling him that for a while, though.


 
yeah mainly his foot soldiers!


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> It's Andrew Gilligan ffs it's not like he hasn't got form. His previous article about TellMAMA and how anti-muslim attacks are made up was a risible attempt to excuse and apologise for the EDL terrorising muslims - regardless of how accurate TellMAMA is there's been a definite increase in anti-muslim bigotry, this is not something conjoured up out of the imaginations of the Vast Islamo-Marxist Left-wing Globalist conspiracy. Surely he must realise that article would come back to haunt him the next time some Breivik type nutter goes and kills a load of people?



My original point though was how easy UAF make it for right wing rags to launch these kind of attack pieces. I'm not trying to defend Andrew Gilligan.


----------



## belboid (Jun 17, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> It's Andrew Gilligan ffs it's not like he hasn't got form.


it's not just Andrew Gilligan - its Andrew Gilligan making extensive use of a LibDem arsehole who went on an EDL demo. So they both have substantial amount of form.

Interesting how the paragraph on Martin Smith is followed by one about a 'senior UAF officer who cannot be name for legal reasons' being investigated for rape.



SpackleFrog said:


> My original point though was how easy UAF make it for right wing rags to launch these kind of attack pieces. I'm not trying to defend Andrew Gilligan.


the right-wing will find any excuse to do that anyway, whether its some people allegedly standing on a war memorial or one person waving an 'islamist' flag about.  Fuck it.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 17, 2013)

belboid said:


> l find any excuse to do that anyway, whether its some people allegedly standing on a war memorial or one person waving an 'islamist' flag about. Fuck it.


 
Note the use of the quotation marks.


----------



## belboid (Jun 17, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Note the use of the quotation marks.


try and imagine why they are used. No one has identified the flag on the Sheffield demo as being from any organisation, so its affiliation is still somewhat vague (although, probably, islamist). Also you could consider the discussion earlier in the thread about the difference between 'islamists' and 'jihadists' and how that is relevant. And, just consider the fact that ANY flag with Arabic writing on would have been described as an 'islamist' one by the EDL.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 17, 2013)

I think it's fine to play down the obviously sympathetic to the fash Lib Dem bullshit but the Azad Ali stuff is indisputable, and very worrying.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 17, 2013)

belboid said:


> try and imagine why they are used. No one has identified the flag on the Sheffield demo as being from any organisation, so its affiliation is still somewhat vague (although, probably, islamist).


 
It really isn't vague. That flag is an islamist flag, the white shahada on a blackground is specfically al-Queada, and universally recognised as such.



belboid said:


> Also you could consider the discussion earlier in the thread about the difference between 'islamists' and 'jihadists' and how that is relevant. And, just consider the fact that ANY flag with Arabic writing on would have been described as an 'islamist' one by the EDL.


 
Perhaps that's true, that any Arabic writing on a flag would be seen as Islamist, however in this instance the flag in question actually is an Islamist one, associated worldwide with Al-Queada, so just as a stopped clock is right twice a day the EDL would happen to be right in describing this one as an Islamist flag.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

belboid said:


> it's not just Andrew Gilligan - its Andrew Gilligan making extensive use of a LibDem arsehole who went on an EDL demo. So they both have substantial amount of form.
> 
> Interesting how the paragraph on Martin Smith is followed by one about a 'senior UAF officer who cannot be name for legal reasons' being investigated for rape.
> 
> ...



Based on UAF/UAF milieu I've had the pleasure of working with, I doubt these are alleged incidents at all. Recently I've had the joy of of UAF types explaining that anybody laying flowers on a war memorial at all is somehow "imperialist" and should be opposed. You can say the media will make anti-fash look like dick heads, sure, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter if you act like dicks.


----------



## belboid (Jun 17, 2013)

Identify the group to whom it belongs then.  You didnt even know the word 'shahada' until I used it on this thread, so your attempt to pretend to be wise and knowing on the subject is a tad unconvincing, to say the least.  Especially as not all such flags are associated with the group known as Al Qaeda.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> It really isn't vague. That flag is an islamist flag, the white shahada on a blackground is specfically al-Queada, and universally recognised as such.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps that's true, that any Arabic writing on a flag would be seen as Islamist, however in this instance the flag in question actually is an Islamist one, associated worldwide with Al-Queada, so just as a stopped clock is right twice a day the EDL would happen to be right in describing this one as an Islamist flag.


 

I'm not saying it's not a 'Jihadi' flag Del but I haven't seen any evidence to say it definitely is. I don't wanna restart this discussion though so unless anyone can offer proof that that flag was 'Jihadi' lets leave it. 

Incidentally, is this 'Islamist' word useful? Can we not come up with a better word? It just sounds so much like Islamic I don't really like it.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

J Ed said:


> I think it's fine to play down the obviously sympathetic to the fash Lib Dem bullshit but the Azad Ali stuff is indisputable, and very worrying.


 

Exactly Josephine, it brings popular frontism to an insane conclusion.


----------



## treelover (Jun 17, 2013)

belboid said:


> try and imagine why they are used. No one has identified the flag on the Sheffield demo as being from any organisation, so its affiliation is still somewhat vague (although, probably, islamist). Also you could consider the discussion earlier in the thread about the difference between 'islamists' and 'jihadists' and how that is relevant. And, just consider the fact that ANY flag with Arabic writing on would have been described as an 'islamist' one by the EDL.


 
I note you make little differentiation between the vast range of people on an EDL demo: from the hardcore racists and Nazi's to the fellow travellers, to youngsters who are on the first demo and not even sure why they are there.


and indeed their handsignals

nuance is available for identifying jihadi's, etc but not the same on EDL events

not endorsing them just asking for consistency


----------



## belboid (Jun 17, 2013)

treelover said:


> I note you make little differentiation between the vast range of people on an EDL demo: from the hardcore racists and Nazi's to the fellow travellers, to youngsters who are on the first demo and not even sure why they are there.
> 
> nuance is available for identifying jihadi's, etc but not the same on EDL events


please point out where I have described people on the EDL demo at all.

You cant, because I havent. Once again, you are making things up. That's at least half a dozen times on this thread alone.

(oh, and learn what 'nuance' actually means before trying to use it in a sentence)


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 17, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> I'm not saying it's not a 'Jihadi' flag Del but I haven't seen any evidence to say it definitely is. I don't wanna restart this discussion though so unless anyone can offer proof that that flag was 'Jihadi' lets leave it.


 
Well yeah ok if it's this flag -









Then it's jihadi. If it's a different flag of a similar design it might be different, but if it's a Shahada on a black background it's as likely to be jihadi as a swastika is likely to be nazism.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 17, 2013)

belboid said:


> Identify the group to whom it belongs then.


 
Well there isn't one group there's several. It's most commonly associated with Al-Queada, but other jihadi groups, such as Al-Shabab or MUJAO, have been known to use it from time to time.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 17, 2013)

A comment you see quite often on the bottom half of the internet (Local newspaper comment sections in particular) is that the EDL and UAF are 'as bad as each other'.  It's this kind of article that feeds that.

There are dubious fringe characters in both groups to be fair, but anyone seeing the groups as equivalent isn't really thinking it through.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 17, 2013)

belboid said:


> You didnt even know the word 'shahada' until I used it on this thread.....


 
This is pretty funny though.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Well yeah ok if it's this flag -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

What does it mean?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 17, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> What does it mean?


 
_There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the messenger of God. _

The shahada itself is just a standard slogan, it's not associated with anything explicitly terrorist or jihadi.

The Black Flag is the generic symbol of Al-Queada and other Salafist or ultra-Islamist militia's throughout the world, it's currently quite popular in Syria where you'll see it draped over the cars and vehicles of Al-Nusrah and their allies.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 17, 2013)

So the flag doesn't actually say "death to all non-believers" or anything...but its used by Al-Qaeda/Islamic Fundamentalist groups? Hmmmm.


----------



## laptop (Jun 17, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> So the flag doesn't actually say "death to all non-believers" or anything...but its used by Al-Qaeda/Islamic Fundamentalist groups? Hmmmm.


 
Welll... the Union Flag _literally_ asks us to celebrate the lives of Andrew the Palestinian Jew, David the Welsh person and George, born to a Roman soldier in Palestine but linked to Greek culture in what is now Turkey. But the BNP _et al_ use it all the same...


----------



## cesare (Jun 17, 2013)

laptop said:


> Welll... the Union Flag _literally_ asks us to celebrate the lives of Andrew the Palestinian Jew, David the Welsh person and George, born to a Roman soldier in Palestine but linked to Greek culture in what is now Turkey. But the BNP _et al_ use it all the same...


Patrick not David?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 17, 2013)

no Welsh in the union flag


----------



## Corax (Jun 17, 2013)

ddraig said:


> no Welsh in the union flag


 
Ain't no taff in the union... er... staff!


----------



## laptop (Jun 17, 2013)

ddraig said:


> no Welsh in the union flag


 
Whoops. Patrick, born in Banwen (near Neath, South Wales).

So I was right by accident on the origins


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 17, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> So the flag doesn't actually say "death to all non-believers" or anything...but its used by Al-Qaeda/Islamic Fundamentalist groups? Hmmmm.


The swastika is a Buddhist symbol of good luck, when skinhead jim has it tattooed on his forehead it is because of his devotion to the bodhisattva


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 18, 2013)

I've been speaking to a few muslims and they tell me that this symbol is one they've grown up with, that its one of the Pillars of Islam and that its only recently been taken up by Jihadi groups. In fact they weren't even aware Jihadi groups used it until this thing in Sheffield and believed others would not be aware of it. Apparently its often used on bookmarks, phone cases and profile pics by young muslims.

They also today me that Jihad means simply 'struggle' which was embarrassing for me...


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 18, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> The swastika is a Buddhist symbol of good luck, when skinhead jim has it tattooed on his forehead it is because of his devotion to the bodhisattva



Don't be such a sarky twat.


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 18, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> Don't be such a sarky twat.


I am being snarky, but you are being disingenuous, the script is commonly used throughout islam but in context, when displayed  on a black banner it is a jihadist standard. I do not know whether the Muslims you have spoken to are being polite or genuinely do not recognise that it is a jihadist trope, in the same way as an Irish person who is politically involved may recognise the Celtic cross but have no idea of its use as a fascist symbol.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 18, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> I've been speaking to a few muslims and they tell me that this symbol is one they've grown up with, that its one of the Pillars of Islam and that its only recently been taken up by Jihadi groups. In fact they weren't even aware Jihadi groups used it until this thing in Sheffield and believed others would not be aware of it. Apparently its often used on bookmarks, phone cases and profile pics by young muslims.
> 
> They also today me that Jihad means simply 'struggle' which was embarrassing for me...



Speaking to a few muslims huh? yeah right.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 18, 2013)

crivvens! 
http://imgur.com/a/Eq8Gh


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 18, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> I am being snarky, but you are being disingenuous, the script is commonly used throughout islam but in context, when displayed on a black banner it is a jihadist standard. I do not know whether the Muslims you have spoken to are being polite or genuinely do not recognise that it is a jihadist trope, in the same way as an Irish person who is politically involved may recognise the Celtic cross but have no idea of its use as a fascist symbol.


 

I'm not being disingenuous, I'm just trying to find out more about it. I mentioned the black banner thing to them and they said that was how it was normally displayed. They may be wrong or disingenuous themselves and you may be totally right but I need to have a decent understanding of it to know what to do next. I live in Sheffield and if I've seen that banner once I'll probably see it again, so I need to be pretty confident of why I need to challenge someone flying it the next time I see it. If it's commmonly understood as an al-Qaeda type banner it needs to be challenged; if most Muslims think its just a standard Islamic flag that makes the whole thing more complex. The Celtic Cross is a good analogy; incidentally I've known one or two Irish people who've had no idea about it. Don't suppose you can link me up to something that can tell me more?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 18, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> crivvens!
> http://imgur.com/a/Eq8Gh


 
Probably still don't have any members cos they all broke the rules


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 18, 2013)

fucken hell, watmough needs to give up the skag! 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theuntrusted/9050733042/in/set-72157634141966310


----------



## J Ed (Jun 18, 2013)

Man tries to set a Mosque on fire in Gloucester , possibly sets himself on fire http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-gloucester-mosque-arson-attack-8663147.html 

Edit - from the SLATEDL facebook page comments on this story - "Juan Fonique: That's an unemployment solution right there....."


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Speaking to a few muslims huh? yeah right.


 
What's wrong with that you fucking oddball?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 18, 2013)

No one actually knows muslims cos of the self-segregation. Obv. Esp the muslims.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 18, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Man tries to set a Mosque on fire in Gloucester , possibly sets himself on fire http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-gloucester-mosque-arson-attack-8663147.html
> 
> Edit - from the SLATEDL facebook page comments on this story - "Juan Fonique: That's an unemployment solution right there....."


 
He's been nicked now or something.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 18, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> What's wrong with that you fucking oddball?


 
Remember children its not big or clever to swear.


----------



## Corax (Jun 18, 2013)

It's a bit dubious to react with incredulousness when someone claims to have spoken to a muslim too.


----------



## protesticals (Jun 18, 2013)

Corax said:


> It's a bit dubious to react with incredulousness when someone claims to have spoken to a muslim too.


Its when people back up their claims with 'I just spoke to some Muslims' that I am dubious.


----------



## cesare (Jun 18, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> What's wrong with that you fucking layabout?


 
CFY


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Its when people back up their claims with 'I just spoke to some Muslims' that I am dubious.


 
He did. I know he did - I witnessed the conversations. If you like to back up your arguments with made up anecdotes that's your call but don't assume everyone else does it too.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 18, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Its when people back up their claims with 'I just spoke to some Muslims' that I am dubious.


 

What is wrong with you?


----------



## Corax (Jun 18, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Its when people back up their claims with 'I just spoke to some Muslims' that I am dubious.


 
What if they were reporting what they'd learned when - just as a hypothetical you understand, purely as a thought experiment - they'd _spoken to some Muslims_?


----------



## protesticals (Jun 18, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> He did. I know he did - I witnessed the conversations. If you like to back up your arguments with made up anecdotes that's your call but don't assume everyone else does it too.



Of course you did.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 18, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Of course you did.


 
Are you calling me a liar now too?

Weirdo.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 18, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> fucken hell, watmough needs to give up the skag!
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/theuntrusted/9050733042/in/set-72157634141966310


 

His he still a Methodist?


----------



## audiotech (Jun 18, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Man tries to set a Mosque on fire in Gloucester , possibly sets himself on fire http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-gloucester-mosque-arson-attack-8663147.html



I suspect the CCTV will have shown the man being engulfed in flames, otherwise I doubt they would have mentioned it. licence plate too most likely.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 19, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Of course you did.


 

Is it that it's impossible I could have interacted with Muslims or that they could have told me that? Which is the bit you have trouble with?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 19, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> fucken hell, watmough needs to give up the skag!
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/theuntrusted/9050733042/in/set-72157634141966310


 
Is that Prince Philip on the right, just behind him?


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 19, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Is that Prince Philip on the right, just behind him?


 
He appears a right weird un. Kind of looks through you not at you. Richard Edmonds likewise.


----------



## Fedayn (Jun 19, 2013)

protesticals said:


> Speaking to a few muslims huh? yeah right.


 

No one does obviously, never happens....


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> No one does obviously, never happens....


 
To be fair, he's never previously mentioned that he speaks muslamic.


----------



## treelover (Jun 19, 2013)

just been looking on the FB website, lots of 'ordinary' people on there now offering their services such as one guy who is offering web design, etc likes dr who, enivironmentalism, supports Israel, etc.

well, sort of ordinary, so are they becoming slowly 'mainstream'


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2013)

treelover said:


> just been looking on the FB website


Let me just stop you there.


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2013)

treelover said:


> just been looking on the FB website, lots of 'ordinary' people on there now offering their services such as one guy who is offering web design, etc likes dr who, enivironmentalism, supports Israel, etc.
> 
> well, sort of ordinary, so are they becoming slowly 'mainstream'


 
I'm lost - what is it about them that makes them 'ordinary people'? The web design or the Doctor Who? 

They've always had 'likes' from all sorts anyhow. A Facebook 'like' is by it's nature done on a whim, and not always given with full information to say the least...


----------



## treelover (Jun 19, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Let me just stop you there.


 

what on earth is the problem can't look at the FB sites, now etc, there was no link, know your enemy

as for the 'ordinary' different than the usual soccer casual, street fighter who go on the demo's, may have always been that way, never use to use it,


----------



## Corax (Jun 19, 2013)

treelover said:


> what on earth is the problem can't look at the FB sites, now etc, there was no link, know your enemy
> 
> as for the 'ordinary' different than the usual soccer casual, street fighter who go on the demo's, may have always been that way, never use to use it,


 
I'm not a FBer myself, but the screenshots that get posted up around the place have always featured plenty of misguided people that believe the official stance - in amongst the real fash scum.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 20, 2013)

Tommy Robinson has announced that racist scumbags Pam Geller and Robert Spencer will be speaking at Woolwich, will be interesting to see if their visas are refused.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 20, 2013)

Thought I'd stick this in here as well as the other thread. Deserves it for the comments at the end:


----------



## White Lotus (Jun 21, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Tommy Robinson has announced that racist scumbags Pam Geller and Robert Spencer will be speaking at Woolwich, will be interesting to see if their visas are refused.


BBC website says May is thinking about it, but they can't stop the Danish guy Anders Gravers, as he's European. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23004858

On Twitter, Ms Geller has reacted to the campaign by calling it an example of "fascism and hate" and "SS-like thuggery".


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 21, 2013)

So Bill Baker EX EDL English Alliance or what ever there called founder was on QT last night... waited 40 mins with his hand in the air to ask about "our" troops.... only to get shot down within 30 seconds by and actual one of our troops.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> ... waited 40 mins with his hand in the air to ask about "our" troops...


 
Friendly fire


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jun 22, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Thought I'd stick this in here as well as the other thread. Deserves it for the comments at the end:




That was dreadful to watch. The sad thing is, watching it in isolation, he was absolutely right, they don't explain at all why he's racist. The presenter had to bring up the "black c****" quote, nobody else did. He kept asking the same question and nobody really tackled it, just spouted rubbish.

Worth watching until the end though, when the last panellist absolutely nails it on the systemic racism thing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2013)




----------



## J Ed (Jun 22, 2013)

Interview with Tommy Robinson @ 2:56



He did really well too, he's definitely gotten some PR training. The BBC is having him on again and again, what is going on?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jun 22, 2013)

J Ed said:


> The BBC is having him on again and again, what is going on?


 
I think they've (ie mi5, security services) have got him on a leash, and they'd rather the far-right populist stuff remain under the EDL umbrella, where they presumably have some influence and their own people inside, than fracturing into a hundred and one different grouplets that are harder to track and infiltrate, which was the case pre-Woolwich.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 22, 2013)

Cardiff Strong 'peaceful' march tomorrow 11:45 O'Neils St Mary st
leaflet with half a shit union flag on it reads
Cardiff Strong
'I stand with Cardiff'
23rd June
A peaceful March through Cardiff to pay respects to Lee Rigby and to show unity and strength in solidarity against extremism


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 22, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


>




The drunken clown Im pretty sure is the one seen on another video harangueing a microphone. ( ''where are you from-what does that mean'')

If your going to hold meetings esp in enemy territory and with the likes of GG in attendance you must be able to defend them...dont take the percentage route..just look whats been happening with HnH and that geezer fraaaaaaammmmm Essex with the foreign name....Paul Proudhumous, Prontomohomo, Proudhornou...ok Pitt and his lackeys.

Its the first rule in the book because all it does is give them a propaganda lift.


----------



## Corax (Jun 22, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> That was dreadful to watch. The sad thing is, watching it in isolation, he was absolutely right, they don't explain at all why he's racist. The presenter had to bring up the "black c****" quote, nobody else did. He kept asking the same question and nobody really tackled it, just spouted rubbish.
> 
> Worth watching until the end though, when the last panellist absolutely nails it on the systemic racism thing.


Never heard of Akala before, but I think I have a new man-crush.


----------



## Corax (Jun 22, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


>



While I'm no cheerleader for Respect, that was a pretty dignified response when they were initially confronted.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 22, 2013)

Corax said:


> Never heard of Akala before, but I think I have a new man-crush.


 
he is the man! 
watch and learn loads


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2013)

piss poor pissed off piss pots in pissing down rain in burnley. a damp squib. 
http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/local/video-far-right-march-passes-off-peacefully-1-5792032


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> they'd rather the far-right populist stuff remain under the EDL umbrella, where they presumably have some influence and their own people inside, than fracturing into a hundred and one different grouplets that are harder to track and infiltrate, which was the case pre-Woolwich.


 

there weren't that many tho: SEA with paul promodororomo, MfE dave bellend, infidels of NW and NE and they are crawling with 'compromised' members. diddyfiddler's dealings and watmoughs 'info' to yorks plod! was it ever thus?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 22, 2013)

Anyone know owt about "Strong" ? They're in Brighton tomorrow.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Anyone know owt about "Strong" ? They're in Brighton tomorrow.


 

edl fronts apparentrly


----------



## ddraig (Jun 22, 2013)

they are a blatant front mate
http://brightonantifascists.wordpre...rong-to-march-in-brighton-1pm-sunday-23-june/

cunts are in Cardiff tomorrow too, being promoted by these charmers
https://twitter.com/CardiffgirKate
https://twitter.com/CasualsUnitedNT 
e2a http://noparmesanever.wordpress.com...of-marches-this-sunday-23rd-leerigby-edl-bnp/


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 22, 2013)

What a fuck up.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 22, 2013)

Don't know where to stick this and sorry for the 'mobile' link. Fake facebook anti-fascist page warning:

https://m.facebook.com/?refsrc=http://www.facebook.com/&_rdr#!/UkAntifascism?__user=658346560


----------



## brogdale (Jun 22, 2013)

'Splitters' EVF plan to march in my manor...

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk...tion-protest/story-19328516-detail/story.html

Croydon town, eh. This will end well...


----------



## audiotech (Jun 23, 2013)

When did Geller back-track from withdrawing her support for the EDL, posted on her blog in 2011, after concerns raised about the group being infiltrated at admin level by fascists? This is part of what she posted:



> Now that the person whom I most trusted in the EDL, Roberta Moore, has resigned, as she was increasingly uncomfortable with the neo-fascists that had infiltrated the administration of the group, I too am withdrawing my support from the EDL. I hope that genuine anti-jihadists in Britain will also leave the EDL and work with Roberta on starting a new group that will resist definitively and firmly all attempts to divert it from its mission of fighting against jihad and for human rights.


This and the whole post is still on Geller's site.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 23, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> That was dreadful to watch. The sad thing is, watching it in isolation, he was absolutely right, they don't explain at all why he's racist. The presenter had to bring up the "black c****" quote, nobody else did.


 
Yeah. and he denied it happened, when it clearly did, talking some bull about it being edited on youtube and making a quick move to go on about seig heiling being made-up, which clearly some of it is, but not stating that there are some fascists who are indeed there seig heiling on EDL demos, less now than there was. If he spent more time condemning racism, all racism, not just the racism that fits his agenda, and the racists attracted to the EDL then he wouldn't come across as so defensive. Personally, I don't believe him to be a racist in the real sense of the word, as espoused by white supremacists, although he could be one of the "I hate pakis" brigade. Whatever his views on race, his actions are not in anyway conducive to improving race relations, just perhaps his bank balance and ego?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2013)

brogdale said:


> 'Splitters' EVF plan to march in my manor...
> 
> http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk...tion-protest/story-19328516-detail/story.html
> 
> Croydon town, eh. This will end well...


 

theres a few croydonites and SE Londoners  on here who may be interested in hooking up for that,


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Anyone know owt about "Strong" ? They're in Brighton tomorrow.


 
hey up chap! 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/510651.html


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 23, 2013)

Going to pop down later, see if there's any familiar faces.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 23, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


>




Sometimes I get the feeling that you could do with a new hobby


----------



## treelover (Jun 23, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Yeah. and he denied it happened, when it clearly did, talking some bull about it being edited on youtube and making a quick move to go on about seig heiling being made-up, which clearly some of it is, but not stating that there are some fascists who are indeed there seig heiling on EDL demos, less now than there was. If he spent more time condemning racism, all racism, not just the racism that fits his agenda, and the racists attracted to the EDL then he wouldn't come across as so defensive. Personally, I don't believe him to be a racist in the real sense of the word, as espoused by white supremacists, although he could be one of the "I hate pakis" brigade. Whatever his views on race, his actions are not in anyway conducive to improving race relations, just perhaps his bank balance and ego?


 
That's an excellent summary, maybe pass it on to some on the youngsters who really are making things worse.


----------



## comrade spurski (Jun 23, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Yeah. and he denied it happened, when it clearly did, talking some bull about it being edited on youtube and making a quick move to go on about seig heiling being made-up, which clearly some of it is, but not stating that there are some fascists who are indeed there seig heiling on EDL demos, less now than there was. If he spent more time condemning racism, all racism, not just the racism that fits his agenda, and the racists attracted to the EDL then he wouldn't come across as so defensive. Personally, I don't believe him to be a racist in the real sense of the word, as espoused by white supremacists, although he could be one of the "I hate pakis" brigade. Whatever his views on race, his actions are not in anyway conducive to improving race relations, just perhaps his bank balance and ego?


 
As someone who gets called a pakiand whose mrs gets called a paki lover I think hating pakis makes him a racist in the real sense of the word


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 23, 2013)

From that Newsnight thing he did, the reported said the "paki" word often came into the conversation, or something like that.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 23, 2013)

Cardiff "Strong" was weak
about 15 of them and no families this time
nazi boy from Swansea picked up early on and the walk wasn't even followed as no recognisable fash on it
there were some blokes hanging around the edges who were either OB or casuals keeping an eye
looked like it was organised by the same woman who did the walk for Lee Rigby
spoons was shut!


----------



## J Ed (Jun 23, 2013)

These strong fronts are getting some seriously good press coverage, and obviously people who don't know that they are fronts and would never work with the EDL are going to their events.

http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/i...ng_of_drummer_lee_rigby_in_woolwich_1_2241910

















Last pic is apparently the Rigby family at Middleton strong.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 23, 2013)

http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/appeal.asp?ID=5619

*Bang investigated as mosque device confirmed as home-made explosive*


WEST Midlands Police has tonight (23 June) confirmed that the suspicious package found at a mosque in Walsall over the weekend is a small home-made explosive device.
Enquiries have revealed that local residents heard a bang on Friday evening which appears to be consistent with the device going off.
No one was injured and there was only minimal damage around the device, which was in an adjoining public alleyway.
Police were called to Ashia Mosque on Rutter Street, Walsall at around 10.45pm on Saturday 22 June following the discovery of the device by a member of the public, who had taken it into the building.
Assistant Chief Constable Sharon Rowe said: “The force is taking this attack against the mosque very seriously and we have a major investigation underway.
“To that end, I have called in support from all over the force, including the West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit, which has a number of experts supporting the inquiry.
“Specialist investigators have been working all day and continue to ensure that we maximise every opportunity from the crime scene.
“At this stage we are keeping an open mind on a motive, but have recorded it as a hate crime. A hate crime is any criminal act committed against a person or property that is motivated by the offender’s hatred of people because of their gender, race, religion, disability or sexual orientation.
“The investigation is being supported by officers from the neighbourhood policing team, who have local knowledge and relationships.
“If there is anyone who heard the bang on Friday evening, or saw suspicious activity on Friday or Saturday, who could help the investigation, I would urge them to come forward as soon as possible."
While this is believed to be an isolated incident, West Midlands Police has increased patrols in Walsall and across the force area to reassure people who may be worried.
Mosque spokesman, Mr Ziaul Haq, said: "We didn’t think this item was serious, but called the police.
"We would like to thank the police for taking this seriously and for investigating this thoroughly.
"We have beautiful relationships with the local community and we’ve never had any trouble at all at our mosque. We are not too worried about this and we have every confidence in the police."
Cllr Zahid Ali, portfolio holder for public health and protection, said: "We stand shoulder to shoulder together as a community in support of the police.
"We’ve worked very hard with the community and shown that we were there for them when the evacuated residents needed shelter.
"Walsall has really shown its mettle in coming together and responding with calm determination."
A small scene will be retained overnight, but the majority of residents have returned to their homes. The remainder will be allowed to return this evening.
Worshippers have been able to return to the mosque for prayers this afternoon.
Anyone concerned by the events or with information which may aid the investigation should call police on 101. Those who do not want to speak with police officers directly should call the independent charity Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.
To report hate crimes, visit: www.report-it.org.uk.
GUIDANCE TO MEDIA: The press office wil be closing at 8pm today (Sunday), any updates will be done via the force's Twitter account - @WMPolice


----------



## audiotech (Jun 23, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> As someone who gets called a pakiand whose mrs gets called a paki lover I think hating pakis makes him a racist in the real sense of the word


 

I don't disagree with you on that. My main point being that I don't believe he's a 'white supremacist' in the strictest meaning of the term.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 23, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-23019142

on BBC now


----------



## J Ed (Jun 24, 2013)

god this is brilliant propaganda. No way are they not getting some serious funding and advice from somewhere.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 24, 2013)

My word. That is extraordinarily cynical. Let's hope the little girl gets her treatment. Shame that even something as serious as this is seen as fair game for people of ANY political persuasion.


----------



## treelover (Jun 24, 2013)

where is he getting the dosh for all that serious gear?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 24, 2013)

J Ed said:


> god this is brilliant propaganda. No way are they not getting some serious funding and advice from somewhere.




Chance for one of the rich 'antifascists' who constantly sneer at the EDL proles to actually do something that could aid the antifascist cause for once in their fucking lives - donate the money the family needs and pull the rug from under that cynical, self-satisfied faker. I bet HNH or Searchlight, UAF even, could get that money together if they put their minds to it. Never gonna happen though.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 24, 2013)

Right wing activists could donate some of their "rich-pickings" they have in the past collected in out of court settlements from printers, distributors and stockists of the anti-fascist magazine _Searchlight_. Then of course there has been rich fascists such as Oswald Moseley, an aristocrat who had £100,000 to spare to employ 150 staff and organise barracks in Chelsea for his fascist movement, Lord Rothermere a supporter, as was Vickers boss, Lord Armstrong and car magnate, Sir William Morris. What they wanted was some mugs to act as a strong arm - a right-wing authoritarian movement - to do their dirty work in the event of a general strike. The same counterparts are still around today doing exactly the same thing, but more in the shadows, as they usually are. But you know all this. There have been anti-fascists who've donated, to causes we don't know about I'm sure and of course to the anti-fascist cause itself we do know about. Hundreds hospitalised, as the Blackshirts "drenchened" the East End with a "sustained campaign of racist intimidation". No "rich" anti-fascists playing a part? None in Spain? Did you note the smug grin on the face of Yaxley-Lennon when he mentioned the East London mosque? He bragged on the video posted earlier he was earning 300,000 a year and had two businessess. That's being rich from where I come from. He could donate most of what's needed out of his own pocket. 77 years have past since Cable Street, but the game is still the same. A right-wing, authoritarian movement is being built and sustained for use if need be as the crisis deepens and what do you do? Come out with some workerist bollocks. Hurrah!

To quote Orwell (was he a "rich anti-fascist"?):



> There is nothing in the “national character” of Britain that guards against a turn to murderous fascist reaction. If the British ruling class failed to reach for the fascist weapon in the mid-1930s it was because the crisis never reached the depths that it did in Italy, Germany and Spain.


Source.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 24, 2013)

J Ed said:


> god this is brilliant propaganda. No way are they not getting some serious funding and advice from somewhere.




he's certainly getting better- two years ago he'd be able to speak to a far right crowd and thats it. Now he's doing an impression of normal, a good impression. He's had pointers, no doubt


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 24, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Right wing activists could donate some of their "rich-pickings" they have in the past collected in out of court settlements from printers, distributors and stockists of the anti-fascist magazine _Searchlight_. Then of course there has been rich fascists such as Oswald Moseley, an aristocrat who had £100,000 to spare to employ 150 staff and organise barracks in Chelsea for his fascist movement, Lord Rothermere a supporter, as was Vickers boss, Lord Armstrong and car magnate, Sir William Morris. What they wanted was some mugs to act as a strong arm - a right-wing authoritarian movement - to do their dirty work in the event of a general strike. The same counterparts are still around today doing exactly the same thing, but more in the shadows, as they usually are. But you know all this. There have been anti-fascists who've donated, to causes we don't know about I'm sure and of course to the anti-fascist cause itself we do know about. Hundreds hospitalised, as the Blackshirts "drenchened" the East End with a "sustained campaign of racist intimidation". No "rich" anti-fascists playing a part? None in Spain? Did you note the smug grin on the face of Yaxley-Lennon when he mentioned the East London mosque? He bragged on the video posted earlier he was earning 300,000 a year and had two businessess. That's being rich from where I come from. He could donate most of what's needed out of his own pocket. 77 years have past since Cable Street, but the game is still the same. A right-wing, authoritarian movement is being built and sustained for use if need be as the crisis deepens and what do you do? Come out with some workerist bollocks. Hurrah!
> 
> To quote Orwell (was he a "rich anti-fascist"?):
> 
> Source.



I think you might have slightly missed the point there mate. Why would I want rich fascists to stump up the cash? That's still gonna be a far right propaganda coup isn't it? The point is that someone like Billy 'Britain became a classless society around the time I bought my first mansion' Bragg could pay this relatively easily, making it impossible for the edl to use as propaganda. I wasn't saying all fascists are working class and all antifascists are rich or anything. And as for Orwell,.I'd question the anti fascist credentials of a man who provides.lists of communists to.the security.services.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 24, 2013)

J Ed said:


> god this is brilliant propaganda. No way are they not getting some serious funding and advice from somewhere.




This is really odd. It has got nothing to do with the EDL's campaign against "extremist" muslims. It's a total divergence from their main theme and doesn't tie in with their cause, except as an emotional trojan horse aimed at projecting themselves at a broader, softer and albeit "gullible" public.

The EDL are not the right organization to be doing this charity campaign, that's for sure, but it looks like they are tactically miles ahead of their opposition at the moment. (who incidentally on TV the other day were incapable of forming clear arguements against him)

I suspect that this new charity campaign, that substitutes help for heroes, might be influenced by this slogan: _"None shall starve nor freeze" _guess where that comes from?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 24, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> This is really odd. It has got nothing to do with the EDL's campaign against "extremist" muslims. It's a total divergence from their main theme and doesn't tie in with their cause, except as an emotional trojan horse aimed at projecting themselves at a broader albeit "gullible" public.


 
It's a clever racialised appeal to class solidarity, he's saying that if the EDL had their way then money would go to the sick kids of ordinary families which can't happen now because the establishment is too busy spending money on the funeral of a woman who did so much harm to working-class families and on Muslims. Going over EDL propaganda this comes up a lot, the EDL worldview explains that the bedroom tax is only happening because the state is spending so much on Muslim immigrants who of course in their propaganda they say do not pay the bedroom tax.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 24, 2013)

J Ed said:


> These strong fronts are getting some seriously good press coverage, and obviously people who don't know that they are fronts and would never work with the EDL are going to their events.
> 
> http://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/i...ng_of_drummer_lee_rigby_in_woolwich_1_2241910
> 
> ...


 
Not across the board, only 2 people turned up in Southampton, Portsmouth was cancelled.
This is the report from the Harlow Star

```
THE organiser of a charity march in memory of murdered soldier Lee Rigby has declared today’s (Sunday, June 23) event a success - despite the fact that fewer than 30 people took part.
 
Leo Hartley had invited hundreds to Harlow Strong - which he had billed as a “peaceful march to protest against all forms of extremism” - via Facebook, but ultimately only 28 people turned up.
 
Organised under the banner of the Woolwich Strong movement - which has come under fire from anti-racsim groups for having direct links with far-right organisations including the English Defence League - the march was one of more than 20 similar events taking place simultaneously in towns and cities across the UK.
 
“It’s obviously a disappointing turnout, but I’m still proud of everyone who came out and showed their support today,” Mr Hartley told the Star.
 
“Although there were not as many people as I had hoped for, those who came stood strong together.
 
“We have also had a lot of messages of support from those unable to make it, and the positive response from people driving past as we marched through Harlow was encouraging.”
 
Escorted by police, the group - which included several members of the EDL - set off from Harlow Civic Centre at 12pm and marched through the town centre before heading towards the Netteswell War Memorial on School Lane.
 
While on Broad Walk, they passed a counter-demonstration set up by the Harlow branch of Unite Against Fascism, who had expressed major concerns in the build-up to Harlow Strong that the event would attract “undesireable” attention from members of extreme right-wing organisations,
 
Yet the potential flashpoint passed without incident, and the group continued on its route to the Town Park, where they observed a two-minute silence before laying a wreath in memory of Lee Rigby after one of Mr Hartley’s children read a poem paying tribute to the fallen soldier.
 
“It may have been a smaller event than we had hoped for, but the important thing is that nationally we have sent a clear message that extremism and terrorism will not be tolerated by the people of Great Britain, regardless of their race, religion or politics,” Mr Hartley added.
 
Asked why he thought so few people had turned out, he said “political pressure” and “misinformation” had put many off joining the march, which local anti-racism campaigners and trade unionists had branded as a “front” for the EDL and BNP.
 
“There has been a certain amount of scaremongering and misunderstanding, and I think this will have made some people too scared to show their support,” Mr Hartley said.
 
“This event was open to anyone who wanted to show their respect to our troops. Regardless of their political beliefs, everyone who marched today respected our request that they leave their political agendas at home to march peacefully and with dignity.
 
“I have always said that this would be a peaceful, non-political and family-friendly event, and today I was proved right.”
 
Mr Hartley added that he now planned to make the march an annual event.
 
“Extremism and terrorism are not going to disappear overnight, so I hope to make this march an annual event,” he said.
 
“Hopefully next year we will have a better turnout now that people have seen we are a peaceful, non-political group.”
```


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 24, 2013)

they will be embarrassed by the turnout on an annual basis then Limerick Red


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 24, 2013)

He's probably not had PR training, just got better speaking to the media through experience.

I used to get nervous about speaking on the phone. I'd experience heart palpitations and stumble over my words. Then I had a job on the phones in an office and within a few weeks I was speaking clear as day answering the phones (even though I was surrounded by other people).


----------



## jakethesnake (Jun 24, 2013)

About 30 marched in Exeter with about 150 antis holding a silent vigil organised by the local UAF. I wasn't there but it was pretty peaceful by all accounts.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 24, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> He's probably not had PR training, just got better speaking to the media through experience.
> 
> I used to get nervous about speaking on the phone. I'd experience heart palpitations and stumble over my words. Then I had a job on the phones in an office and within a few weeks I was speaking clear as day answering the phones (even though I was surrounded by other people).


 
He has. He definitely has. In fact it's unrealistic to think that the leader of a group backed and to an extent coordinated by the likes of Frank Gaffney wouldn't have had quite comprehensive media training. You can tell - he talks like a media savvy politician in a lot of ways these days.


----------



## Corax (Jun 24, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> He's probably not had PR training, just got better speaking to the media through experience.


 
There was a video posted a while back that I commented on, that his hand movements were reminiscent of Tony Blair.  It was absolutely textbook stuff, and not something done in a way that people do naturally.  Sealed the certainty of media training for me.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 24, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> I used to get nervous about speaking on the phone. I'd experience heart palpitations and stumble over my words. Then I had a job on the phones in an office and within a few weeks I was speaking clear as day answering the phones (even though I was surrounded by other people).


 

Does that help you out when you go on EDL marches?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 24, 2013)

What proof is there that the "Strong" marches are an EDL front?


----------



## audiotech (Jun 24, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think you might have slightly missed the point there mate. Why would I want rich fascists to stump up the cash? That's still gonna be a far right propaganda coup isn't it? The point is that someone like Billy 'Britain became a classless society around the time I bought my first mansion' Bragg could pay this relatively easily, making it impossible for the edl to use as propaganda. I wasn't saying all fascists are working class and all antifascists are rich or anything. And as for Orwell,.I'd question the anti fascist credentials of a man who provides.lists of communists to.the security.services.


 

It's what Orwell said that's at issue. I was making an ironic point about some fascists making rich pickings out of articles in anti-fascist magazines such as _Searchlight, _which you seem to have missed. I don't know what Bragg is worth, but I doubt he could pay this sum "relatively easily". He's no multi-million platinum selling, world renowned artist is he? More Woody Woodpecker, than Guthrie IMO.

Edit: I went out and bought his first record 'Life's a Riot with Spy Vs Spy', which ain't that bad - reached number 30 in the charts in 1984. Even went to see him on the "Red Wedge" tour at the local Trades Club (no Shea Stadium), but that was about it. The "Left Field" at Glastonbury and promoting HnH in his halcyon days. George Michael eat your heart out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 24, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> What proof is there that the "Strong" marches are an EDL front?


shit turnout


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## malatesta32 (Jun 25, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> What proof is there that the "Strong" marches are an EDL front?


 
many of them have EDL stuff on their facebook profiles (?) and the help for heroes/lee rigby thing are being used to make the EDL look respectable. we know various EDL figures are organising these around the country.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2013)

But mainly the shit turnout's the clew


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 25, 2013)

yeah i have heard no shows for several. mr bishie said 6 had turned out at brighton and denied they were EDL. honest guv!


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## malatesta32 (Jun 25, 2013)

anyone going to this PM me!
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/510741.html


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## audiotech (Jun 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> anyone going to this PM me!
> http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/06/510741.html


 

"Blood on the Streets" ended up as the title of a book, which I still have. Grim reading.


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## butchersapron (Jun 25, 2013)

_Reclaim Armed Forces day. _Jesus christ.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 25, 2013)

audiotech said:


> "Blood on the Streets" ended up as the title of a book, which I still have. Grim reading.


 
yeah had to go thru all this stuff for the book. very grim. random murders and violent assaults and the classic, stylish dog poo thru letter box. you gotta love the far right!


----------



## J Ed (Jun 25, 2013)

Just came across this, sorry but lol


----------



## ddraig (Jun 25, 2013)

gorra be a pisstake continuation of #creepingsharia


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 25, 2013)

wow! i hope the guy in the bowler hat is okay!


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 25, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Fuck, It is the black flag of Jihad (pause video at 0.06s)
> 
> 
> 
> ...





The flag in this vid is def the same one as in this link.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 25, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> The flag in this vid is def the same one as in this link.


 

Yep. I would love someone to point me to a moderate group, or even ultra-conservative non-extremist group that uses this flag.

Not even Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood use the flag, the only people who use the flag in Gaza are Salafists who criticise Hamas for not being Islamic enough.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Jun 25, 2013)

Not sure if the silly cunts expect anyone to take this seriously or not, but apparently Stephen Hawking is an EDL supporter.....


Posted on EDL Bournemouth facebook page.


----------



## Corax (Jun 25, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Not across the board, only 2 people turned up in Southampton, Portsmouth was cancelled.


 
Southampton's a bit of a paradox in some ways.

There's a heavy element of casual racism (together with the anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism front), and a loudly proclaimed hatred of asians amongst certain sections of the community. My experience of living here for the past decade is that it's more overtly racist, and that racism is more common, than anywhere else I've lived in (or anywhere I know enough to make that call).

But I think we have the most apathetic racists/fash in the country. They just can't be arsed tbh.

It's a reflection on the place in general, which has been so badly mismanaged for so long that it's become a black hole of despair and hopeless resignation. Nothing interesting happens here, the built environment is shit and depressing, the education system sucks, employment prospects are limited and mainly in call-centres, and all the council ever do is build more flats and bicker with each other. All whilst comparative cities like Bristol and Cardiff have been sorting their shit out and becoming interesting places to exist. It's not just the potential EDLers that can't be arsed - it's _everyone_.

So - significant potential fash threat here, but not one that's ever likely to do anything organised. In the meantime, there's a helluva lot of street-level racist violence and verbal abuse. Countering that requires more than just a placard and a slogan though.


----------



## Corax (Jun 25, 2013)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Not sure if the silly cunts expect anyone to take this seriously or not, but apparently Stephen Hawking is an EDL supporter.....
> 
> 
> Posted on EDL Bournemouth facebook page.




Vid not showing for me.  Got a YT link or something?


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## Andrew Hertford (Jun 25, 2013)

There's a link to it on the Huff Post page...
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...nappropriate-and-disrespectful_n_3490262.html


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 26, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Just came across this, sorry but lol


 
I like the fact that they didn't think 'save your country' got the message across properly so decided to put UK beside it in brackets in case people didn't know which one it was lol


----------



## barney_pig (Jun 26, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I like the fact that they didn't think 'save your country' got the message across properly so decided to put UK beside it in brackets in case people didn't know which one it was lol


Why isn't it "save our country"?


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jun 27, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Does that help you out when you go on EDL marches?


 

Ah yes, mock my anxiety and panic attacks. Stay classy.


----------



## keybored (Jun 27, 2013)

J Ed said:


> god this is brilliant propaganda. No way are they not getting some serious funding and advice from somewhere.




Video is set to private, do you have another source please?


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## malatesta32 (Jun 27, 2013)

tommys march to woolwich apparently off. no surrender eh?
http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/edl_march_through_east_london_cancelled_1_2252593
speakers banned. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/26/pamela-geller-banned_n_3503307.html


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## malatesta32 (Jun 27, 2013)

http://twitpic.com/czc5v1


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> tommys march to woolwich apparently off. no surrender eh?
> http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/edl_march_through_east_london_cancelled_1_2252593
> speakers banned.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/26/pamela-geller-banned_n_3503307.html


oh jesus, the muppet May has done something admirable!
And Keith Vaz. will wonders never cease...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 27, 2013)

keybored said:


> Video is set to private, do you have another source please?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 27, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> oh jesus, the muppet May has done something admirable!
> And Keith Vaz. will wonders never cease...


 
Admirable? Come on, you never supported state bans when the ANL or UAF demanded them, why would you when HnH and the state itself decides if will?  When they ban chomsky then what? And this is the same power that she has used to tell Trenton Oldfield to get out of the country, the power to remove or refuse on the grounds their presence in the country is not conducive to the public good.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Admirable? Come on, you never supported state bans when the ANL or UAF demanded them, why would you when HnH and the state itself decides if will? When they ban chomsky then what? And this is the same power that she has used to tell Trenton Oldfield to get out of the country, the power to remove or refuse on the grounds their presence in the country is not conducive to the public good.


 

Same government that just made speaking English a requirement of getting benefits too, and the EDL are loving that.

Introduced the same day that someone I know who volunteers at the CAB told me about a DV survivor who came into her CAB because she couldn't speak English and fled to Britain with next to nothing. Osborne wants people like her to starve, I hate the government as much as the EDL they are pushing the same shit and it's not hard to imagine them working together in the not too distant future.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Admirable? Come on, you never supported state bans when the ANL or UAF demanded them, why would you when HnH and the state itself decides if will? When they ban chomsky then what? And this is the same power that she has used to tell Trenton Oldfield to get out of the country, the power to remove or refuse on the grounds their presence in the country is not conducive to the public good.


actually thinking on it. you have a point. I really, really can't envisage a day when Chomsky would get banned on essentially the same grounds - I don't think she could get away with that one, even if she (or any other HS) wanted to. I guess I let my utter hatred of the EDL and those bile-spewing scumbags to cloud my reason.
That and the fact I don't welcome the carnage that may erupt if the EDL had had their march in my backyard
Straight up though; were you HS, would you allow people like those hatespeech charmers to speak here?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 27, 2013)

Yes i would.

And on these two, there is nothing they can do to inflame the situation any further by talking at some thing that only people who agree with their views already are going to be allowed anywhere near. No one knows who they are, even half the edl lot don't know. They are an irrelevance socially and politically and each banning of people like this brings it a step further to being normalised, to the state deciding who you and i may listen to.


----------



## cesare (Jun 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Yes i would.
> 
> And on these two, there is nothing they can do to inflame the situation any further by talking at some thing that only people who agree with their views already are going to be allowed anywhere near. No one knows who they are, even half the edl lot don't know. They are an irrelevance socially and politically and each banning of people like this brings it a step further to being normalised, to the state deciding who you and i may listen to.


Plus making a huge fuss about them gives them credibility that they probably wouldn't have been able to get that quickly on their own.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 27, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> actually thinking on it. you have a point. I really, really can't envisage a day when Chomsky would get banned on essentially the same grounds


 
Really? People are locked up for anti-war sentiment or posting up pics of burning poppies on twitter. We're way past the stage where banning someone like Chomsky from the country would be an unprecedented outrage.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 27, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Just came across this, sorry but lol


 
reminds me of that "the birds" pisstake by harry enfield


----------



## Corax (Jun 27, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Same government that just made speaking English a requirement of getting benefits too, and the EDL are loving that.


 
The spending review was a vile attack on the vulnerable in a number of ways, but that statement's not quite right from what I heard reported. Attending language lessons is going to be made a requirement, not "speaking English". Not trying to be pedantic - I think it's quite different. Whether it's a good or bad thing depends on how it's implemented. On this government's past form though, the latter looks more likely...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 27, 2013)

Corax said:


> The spending review was a vile attack on the vulnerable in a number of ways, but that statement's not quite right from what I heard reported. Attending language lessons is going to be made a requirement, not "speaking English".


 
It's a relief that it's posturing rather than actually going to affect people like this, and this is a relief but I don't think it's the last word at all, I can definitely see this government requiring people to pay for ESOL (which they have already cut).


----------



## Corax (Jun 27, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It's a relief that it's posturing rather than actually going to affect people like this, and this is a relief but I don't think it's the last word at all, *I can definitely see this government requiring people to pay for ESOL* (which they have already cut).


 
Yeah, that wouldn't come as much of a surprise at all...


----------



## emanymton (Jun 27, 2013)

Corax said:


> The spending review was a vile attack on the vulnerable in a number of ways, but that statement's not quite right from what I heard reported. Attending language lessons is going to be made a requirement, not "speaking English". Not trying to be pedantic - I think it's quite different. Whether it's a good or bad thing depends on how it's implemented. On this government's past form though, the latter looks more likely...


Which presumably means it is a change that will cost the more money. 

I assume that British nationals will not have to take whatever test they come up. So this is actually favouring the bloody foreigners coming over here getting free English lessons of the state.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 27, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Just came across this, sorry but lol


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 27, 2013)

Corax said:


> Southampton's a bit of a paradox in some ways.
> 
> There's a heavy element of casual racism (together with the anti-immigration and anti-multiculturalism front), and a loudly proclaimed hatred of asians amongst certain sections of the community. My experience of living here for the past decade is that it's more overtly racist, and that racism is more common, than anywhere else I've lived in (or anywhere I know enough to make that call).
> 
> ...


 
I think you're sound Corax despite sometimes disagreeing with you, but what a load of shit!

(except about the built environment)


----------



## Corax (Jun 27, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I think you're sound Corax despite sometimes disagreeing with you, but what a load of shit!
> 
> (except about the built environment)


 
It's honestly been my experience of the place...

Plenty of good people around as well. I'm not saying everyone in Southampton has a swastika tattoo on their arse. I've just never seen so much _acceptance_ of racism anywhere else I've lived or know well - so little challenge to casual comments.

ETA: My time here's been mainly in Woolston, Sholing and the Shirley edge of Millbrook.  Dunno if that's a factor.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 27, 2013)

I come from the Shirley edge of Millbrook you cunt

Woolston though


----------



## jakethesnake (Jun 27, 2013)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/27/edl-just-giving_n_3510470.html?ref=topbar
Looks like the edl brand is still pretty toxic.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 28, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/27/edl-just-giving_n_3510470.html?ref=topbar
> Looks like the edl brand is still pretty toxic.


 
And take the Michael out of. From the video lower down the page:


> Two types of Muslims, Sonny and Cher. Too many read the Kerrang, wear the parka.
> Courtesy of their Mums, Luton.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 28, 2013)

the speakers banned, march banned, charity rejected the EDL publicly (as did help for heroes and the money was kept by the EDL), plod told tommy he cant amass his followers to descend on woolwich. instead they are going to turn up at the place where rigby was killed.


----------



## treelover (Jun 28, 2013)

Bit about the charity great, but why are you celebrating protestors being banned?, next time it could you and your cohorts..


----------



## YouSir (Jun 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> Bit about the charity great, but why are you celebrating protestors being banned?, next time it could you and your cohorts..



Do you ever contribute anything of interest or value to any thread or are you really just the contrary, whiney pain in the arse you seem to be?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 28, 2013)

im not celebrating it, i am pointing out the ineptitude of the EDL. i am hoping that you know i don't support 'state anti-fascism.'


----------



## treelover (Jun 28, 2013)

YouSir said:


> Do you ever contribute anything of interest or value to any thread or are you really just the contrary, whiney pain in the arse you seem to be?


 
er, I think you will find I have started a number of threads on social policy which have been both informative and very popular, not that I have to justify anything to you or anyone else...


----------



## comrade spurski (Jun 28, 2013)

I couldn't give a toss that the state has banned the EDL march or stopped the nazi fuckers from the US coming here.
I do understand the argument about the state turning on the left demos etc. but to be honest that happens all the time...look how hard it is to have a "legal" strike! 
The Nazi's forfeit their rights to free speech simply by being nazis...there is no such thing as free speech...try running up to a stranger in the street and screaming that you hope that they and their family die horrible slow deaths...there is a better than average chance that you'll be arrested as you don't have the right to do that...the nazis do that EVERY time they march so in what is a very unpolitical sentiment...fuck em


----------



## Corax (Jun 28, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I come from the Shirley edge of Millbrook you cunt


 
Oops.  

At least it's the _Shirley_ edge. Technically I'm Millbrook according to the PO I think, but it's more Shirley in reality.  Shirley's sound.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 28, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> I couldn't give a toss that the state has banned the EDL march or stopped the nazi fuckers from the US coming here.
> I do understand the argument about the state turning on the left demos etc. but to be honest that happens all the time...look how hard it is to have a "legal" strike!
> The Nazi's forfeit their rights to free speech simply by being nazis...there is no such thing as free speech...try running up to a stranger in the street and screaming that you hope that they and their family die horrible slow deaths...there is a better than average chance that you'll be arrested as you don't have the right to do that...the nazis do that EVERY time they march so in what is a very unpolitical sentiment...fuck em


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> I couldn't give a toss that the state has banned the EDL march or stopped the nazi fuckers from the US coming here.
> I do understand the argument about the state turning on the left demos etc. but to be honest that happens all the time...look how hard it is to have a "legal" strike!
> The Nazi's forfeit their rights to free speech simply by being nazis...there is no such thing as free speech...try running up to a stranger in the street and screaming that you hope that they and their family die horrible slow deaths...there is a better than average chance that you'll be arrested as you don't have the right to do that...the nazis do that EVERY time they march so in what is a very unpolitical sentiment...fuck em


 
Flabby state/stage liberal anti-fascism at its very best.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2013)

The two hasbeens concerned seem very happy about it - they got probably better publicity than they would have otherwise, people are talking about them again, and they didn't even have to go to the effort of crossing the Atlantic. Not that that's at all unexpected of course.


----------



## xes (Jun 28, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> I couldn't give a toss that the state has banned the EDL march or stopped the nazi fuckers from the US coming here.
> I do understand the argument about the state turning on the left demos etc. but to be honest that happens all the time...look how hard it is to have a "legal" strike!speech...try running up to a stranger in the street and screaming that you hope that they and their family die horrible slow deaths...there is a better than average chance that you'll be arrested as you don't have the right to do that...the nazis do that EVERY time they march so in what is a very unpolitical sentiment...fuck em


 Fuck em all day long, yea sure, but be warey of who you "allow" the right to protest. I may think EDL and nazi fucks are a load of cunts, but I would defend their rights to be cunts all day long. You can not ban a protest cos it might be unpopular. Just as you can not ban a counter demo against an unpopular demo. That's just fucked up, and is a dangerous road to go down. we are free, remember it.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jun 28, 2013)

xes said:


> Fuck em all day long, yea sure, but be warey of who you "allow" the right to protest. I may think EDL and nazi fucks are a load of cunts, but I would defend their rights to be cunts all day long. You can not ban a protest cos it might be unpopular. Just as you can not ban a counter demo against an unpopular demo. That's just fucked up, and is a dangerous road to go down. we are free, remember it.


I certainly wouldnt defend their right to be cunts, but the state only ever acts in the interest of maintaining the status quo. The state does not allow or ban things because of "good" and "evil" it allows or bans things that are expediant for it to allow or ban at the time.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 28, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> I certainly wouldnt defend their right to be cunts, but the state only ever acts in the interest of maintaining the status quo. The state does not allow or ban things because of "good" and "evil" it allows or bans things that are expediant for it to allow or ban at the time.


 
Innit, you don't oppose state bans because you want to defend their "right" to be cunts - you oppose state bans because once the precedent has been set it's as likely to be used against us as it is them.

Wasn't there a ban on political uniforms justified by the blackshirts that was only ever used against communists or something? Vaguely remember reading about it but I guess it might have just been a cheese induced dream.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

It was the 1936 public order act - we should not have to discuss in 2013.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 28, 2013)

xes said:
			
		

> I may think EDL and nazi fucks are a load of cunts, but I would defend their rights to be cunts all day long.



I wouldn't. But nor would I whistle for the state to sort them out or be pleased when others do so.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

Why would you not defend their rights to be cunts? I would.


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> er, I think you will find I have started a number of threads on social policy which have been both informative and very popular, not that I have to justify anything to you or anyone else...


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Why would you not defend their rights to be cunts? I would.



Anti racists defending people's right to be racist? That's the context I mean it in, not just a generic 'being cunts' which could mean absolutely anything.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Anti racists defending people's right to be racist? That's the context I mean it in, not just a generic 'being cunts' which could mean absolutely anything.


 
I would defend that too.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> I would defend that too.



Is the right to push dog shit through letter boxes worthy of defending or just a bit of name calling?


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 28, 2013)

Cunts have rights. Fuck cuntism.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Is the right to push dog shit through letter boxes worthy of defending or just a bit of name calling?


 
Do you want to talk about it properly or not? Don't ever ask me such stupid questions again please.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Do you want to talk about it properly or not? Don't ever ask me such stupid questions again please.



I am talking about it properly. You said you'd defend people's right to be racist. What's wrong with what I asked?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I am talking about it properly. You said you'd defend people's right to be racist. What's wrong with what I asked?


 
Ok then. What's being racist?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Ok then. What's being racist?



prejudices held about people based on race which may not involve name calling or dog shit going through letter boxes? 

thought crimes. fair enough.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jun 28, 2013)

not hearing a lot about this protest so far....
hopefully we will have numbers..
still reckon we should meet n greet them at that weatherspoons pub?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> prejudices held about people based on race which may not involve name calling or dog shit going through letter boxes?
> 
> thought crimes. fair enough.


 
Is that you agreeing with me? It's hard to tell.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Is that you agreeing with me? It's hard to tell.



Yes. That's me conceding.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Yes. That's me conceding.


 
Sweet. Pint of stowford press then ta


----------



## Corax (Jun 28, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> The Nazi's forfeit


 
Is that when they have to eat a bagel and kiss a communist?


----------



## Corax (Jun 28, 2013)

xes said:


> we are free, remember it.


_*hollow laugh*_


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Sweet. Pint of stowford press then ta


 

On this occasion only. I'd be fucking skint if it cost me a pint every time I was wrong.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 28, 2013)

More absolutely uncritical press coverage of the EDL from the BBC.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 28, 2013)

treelover said:


> Bit about the charity great, but why are you celebrating protestors being banned?, next time it could you and your cohorts..


 

"The “three month ban” on blackshirt marches in the East End was renewed every three months between 1936 and the outbreak of war in 1939. Anti-fascists consistently found themselves on the receiving end of police brutality as the ban was extended to all “extremist” activity."

Source


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 28, 2013)

J Ed said:


> More absolutely uncritical press coverage of the EDL from the BBC.




WTF is going on with that? Even the fucking Daily Heil don't give them an easy ride like that.


----------



## comrade spurski (Jun 28, 2013)

xes said:


> Fuck em all day long, yea sure, but be warey of who you "allow" the right to protest. I may think EDL and nazi fucks are a load of cunts, but I would defend their rights to be cunts all day long. You can not ban a protest cos it might be unpopular. Just as you can not ban a counter demo against an unpopular demo. That's just fucked up, and is a dangerous road to go down. we are free, remember it.


 

I didn't ask the state to ban shit mate...simply said I don't give a fuck that their march was banned...as for all being free I am afraid I do not believe the nazis have rights as they wish to exterminate everyone who aint a nazi


----------



## comrade spurski (Jun 28, 2013)

The39thStep said:


>


 

I'm afraid I didn't understand this response...went over my head I think


----------



## J Ed (Jun 28, 2013)

I don't know. It's like there has been some sort of directive at the BBC to legitimise the group over the past couple of weeks, I feel like I should put on a tin foil hat but it seems like the state is building them up, and that's following Anjem Choudrey being put on the BBC over and over again following Woolwich.


----------



## comrade spurski (Jun 28, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> I certainly wouldnt defend their right to be cunts, but the state only ever acts in the interest of maintaining the status quo. The state does not allow or ban things because of "good" and "evil" it allows or bans things that are expediant for it to allow or ban at the time.


 

I did say that I understand this logic but I just can not drum up any thing that resembles giving a fuck about them having their demo banned


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

J Ed said:


> More absolutely uncritical press coverage of the EDL from the BBC.




They've just been mugged - look at the people reading it out. The fund got 6 grand. So what? Why are you freaking out about this?


----------



## comrade spurski (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Flabby state/stage liberal anti-fascism at its very best.


 
I don't get your point...I said I don't give a shit that they had their march banned...I never called for them to be banned 
surely if my not giving a fuck makes me a flabby state liberal anti fascist then then presumerably "real anti fascists" are up in arms and complaining at the ban....If I had defended the ban or argued for it then I would have got your point.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> They've just been mugged - look at the people reading it out. The fund got 6 grand. So what? Why are you freaking out about this?


 

Can you really not see the problem here? They are talking to him and about the EDL as if it were a normal political party or group. This would never have happened on the BBC re: the BNP.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Can you really not see the problem here? They are talking to him and about the EDL as if it were a normal political party or group. This would never have happened on the BBC re: the BNP.


 
No i can't. And if i could i wouldnt be suggesting that regional stations had been ordered to go easy as part of a pro-edl plot. Take a grip on yourself. ffs.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Can you really not see the problem here? They are talking to him and about the EDL as if it were a normal political party or group. This would never have happened on the BBC re: the BNP.


 
If you think the state has moved the edl into play..oh god i'm not doing this...


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 28, 2013)

I don't think he is saying that. But making it 'newsworthy' puts them on the map more than they need to be, yes? It gives them the opportunity to posture as caring victims. On television.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> No i can't. And if i could i wouldnt be suggesting that regional stations had been ordered to go easy as part of a pro-edl plot. Take a grip on yourself. ffs.


 

Okay, grip taken, I'm happy to concede that this is all based on speculation and the fact that I may have read a bit too much Cold War history this week but...

Do you not think that the BBC's coverage of the EDL has changed dramatically over the past month both in tone and quantity? It's something that I've noticed, and others have too. If you agree, then why do you think that it has changed so dramatically?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 28, 2013)

I don't think that it has. Look at the list of shame of people moaning. This is rubbish j.


----------



## Corax (Jun 28, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Okay, grip taken, I'm happy to concede that this is all based on speculation and the fact that I may have read a bit too much Cold War history this week but...
> 
> Do you not think that the BBC's coverage of the EDL has changed dramatically over the past month both in tone and quantity? It's something that I've noticed, and others have too. If you agree, then why do you think that it has changed so dramatically?


 
For my 2 cents I agree that it seems to have shifted a bit. But personally I find it far more likely that it's the result of an editorial decisions in light of UKIP, Woolwich, and what their focus groups tell them is the 'public mood', than any nefarious influence by the government.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 29, 2013)

Good grief, just came across this, with Tom Jackson Gen Sec of the then postal workers union (UPW) with handlebar mustache. I spoke to him just before he sold us out in 1971:


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 29, 2013)

What years that picture from?


----------



## audiotech (Jun 29, 2013)

Not sure, but I'd hazard a guess, early to mid 1970's.

Tom Jackson's obituary.

Edit: Contrary to that obit linked to, telephonists (mostly women) gave tremendous support to the strike. It was post office engineers (all male) who refused to support, which was crucial to the dispute. It never came.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 29, 2013)

judging by the rupert the bear flares on the guy 2nd from right, that is the 1970s!


----------



## audiotech (Jun 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> No i can't. And if i could i wouldnt be suggesting that regional stations had been ordered to go easy as part of a pro-edl plot. Take a grip on yourself. ffs.


Like this bit of irony from the Weekly Worker:


> The BBC has clearly been infiltrated by peculiarly devious and media-savvy football casuals...


_Oxygen of Stupidity_


----------



## audiotech (Jun 29, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> judging by the rupert the bear flares on the guy 2nd from right, that is the 1970s!


Bloody 'ell, the guy third from right looks suspiciously like Frank 'Baron of Hoxton' Chapple, then of the EETPU (electricians union), sat next to Joan Lester, who he would have avoided by a mile in later years. Len(in) Murray, then Gen Sec of the TUC, there too *and* Merlyn Rees. Could be described as the 'then left moving right show'.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 29, 2013)

got to applaud the dude for such a spenldid muzzer! but the rest of em look very square daddio!


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 29, 2013)

Tommy nicked in Tower Hamlets...


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 29, 2013)

Tariq Ali..on the far left...arf

and is that fellah above them about to fall off....I thought hes supposed to be standing up for his plinthaples


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 29, 2013)

Or is he squeezing a cheeky one out..??


----------



## audiotech (Jun 29, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Tariq Ali..on the far left...arf
> 
> and is that fellah above them about to fall off....I thought hes supposed to be standing up for his plinthaples


Are you sure that's Tariq Ali? I'm not so?

The fella on the plinth? Recognise his face, but can't put a name to it? One of the better TU leaders at that time. Communist Party member I think?


----------



## audiotech (Jun 29, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Tommy nicked in Tower Hamlets...


Martyrdom trip again? Cousin Kev?


----------



## Corax (Jun 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Martyrdom trip again?


 
Yeah.  Getting arrested plays right into their hands tbh.  Instant social media eruption of Hamlets being an 'official no-go area for non-mulims' etc.


----------



## laptop (Jun 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Martyrdom trip again? Cousin Kev?


 
Kev also arrested.


----------



## bignose1 (Jun 29, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Tariq Ali..on the far left...arf
> 
> and is that fellah above them about to fall off....I thought hes supposed to be standing up for his plinthaples


 

3rd from left is who I think TA is....2 other Asian guys to his right I met early doors Searchlight 1980-ish at Digbeth Hall


----------



## J Ed (Jun 29, 2013)

Corax said:


> Yeah. Getting arrested plays right into their hands tbh. Instant social media eruption of Hamlets being an 'official no-go area for non-mulims' etc.


 

He accused the police officers of enforcing Sharia law


----------



## stowpirate (Jun 29, 2013)

There is possibly going to be an EDL riot in Ipswich on Sunday at the Indian Summer Mela in Christchurch Park. Might be some truth to this as it came from Suffolk Police.

http://www.visitsuffolk.com/Ipswich-Indian-Summer-Mela/details/?dms=13&venue=0262801&feature=4


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2013)

you don't think they'll be massively outnumbered and run/hide when they see the amount of young men not on their side?


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 29, 2013)

Tommy and Kev getting a slap and being lifted


----------



## J Ed (Jun 29, 2013)

I like how they started it but they still have the cheek to whine as if they were slapped unprovoked


----------



## framed (Jun 29, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> Tommy and Kev getting a slap and being lifted





"Arrest him for assault..."

Aah, the banter...


----------



## love detective (Jun 29, 2013)

stop saying charity walk!


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 29, 2013)

Oh man, if someone could snip out 3.20 to 3.25 that would be fantastic


----------



## love detective (Jun 29, 2013)

_till 2 o'clock_


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Jun 29, 2013)

so a bit of a crap day in whole.....
lets learn from it


----------



## audiotech (Jun 30, 2013)

The echo between the kissin' cousins is really annoying and those shorts! Whistle, whistle, whistle.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Jun 30, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> Tommy and Kev getting a slap and being lifted





i think that looks pretty bad. as in, it looks like the arrest was totally disproportionate and uncalled for. don't think we should be too smug about this stuff as the police are flagrantly taking the piss...


----------



## audiotech (Jun 30, 2013)

Das Uberdog said:


> i think that looks pretty bad. as in, it looks like the arrest was totally disproportionate and uncalled for. don't think we should be too smug about this stuff as the police are flagrantly taking the piss...


If you examine the video closely Robinson demands that someone: "Get out of the way". The apparent "violent fascist left" are two geezers, one who says in a scouse accent that they are "just walking down the street" and then Robinson's cousin appears, in an aggressive manner: "Yer wanna just get fuckin' out of it" and pushes one of the blokes that led to the altercation in the first instance. Anyone can expect to be arrested for this, especially when it's done in the presence of police officers! That's not "taking the piss". They just can't keep their short-tempers and arrogance in check. The EDL are the opportunists that they are, here again and pretend "fascist" numpty's.


----------



## cesare (Jun 30, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Oh man, if someone could snip out 3.20 to 3.25 that would be fantastic


Someone must be able to do a buttery biscuit base type mix out of it!



Walk, walk, charity walk, charity, charity, walk.


----------



## audiotech (Jun 30, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Oh man, if someone could snip out 3.20 to 3.25 that would be fantastic


 
Give me a day, or two to edit something.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2013)

there were about 20 EDL kettled in wetherspoons all afternoon, they werent allowed to lay flowers, their lead muppets got nicked, not the best day for them.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2013)

i 





Das Uberdog said:


> i think that looks pretty bad. as in, it looks like the arrest was totally disproportionate and uncalled for. don't think we should be too smug about this stuff as the police are flagrantly taking the piss...


 
they had been told what would happen. it was all just a massive publicity stunt but to me it looks pretty shameless opportunism and fuck all to do with either amily mae or armed forces.  any other opinions?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2013)

from casuals: 'Fucking attention seeking, money grabbing parasite. To be arrested today is a trick only a cunt could pull, and pull it he did.'  
also this: http://www.thejournal.ie/edl-leader-irish-members-945972-Jun2013/


----------



## comrade spurski (Jun 30, 2013)

Das Uberdog said:


> i think that looks pretty bad. as in, it looks like the arrest was totally disproportionate and uncalled for. don't think we should be too smug about this stuff as the police are flagrantly taking the piss...


 
If that had been anti racists they would have been beaten shitless by the old bill for resisting arrest.
If they'd have been muslim they'd have been beaten shitless by the old bill for resisting arrest. 
If they'd have been black they'd have been beaten shitless by the old bill for resisting arrest. 
If they'd have been trade unionists on a picket line they'd have been beaten shitless by the old bill for resisting arrest. 
If they'd have been anti capitalist protesters they'd have been beaten shitless by the old bill for resisting arrest.
If they'd have been students they'd have been beaten shitless by the old bill for resisting arrest.
If they'd have been teenagers on an estate or on the high street they'd have been beaten shitless by the old bill for resisting arrest.
If they'd have been football fans they'd have been beaten shitless by the old bill for resisting arrest.

They were given plenty of warnings and were allowed to do their "charity walk" they just were not allowed to go exactly where they wanted...but they insisted on walking into Tower Hamlets where they were banned ... it was a preplanned publicity stunt ....the pair of racist fucks got off lightly compared to how the rest of us would be treated...how many time have they beat the shit out of people for not doing what they say when they say?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 30, 2013)

Das Uberdog said:


> i think that looks pretty bad. as in, it looks like the arrest was totally disproportionate and uncalled for. don't think we should be too smug about this stuff as the police are flagrantly taking the piss...


 

That's what I thought the first time I saw it but take another look, Kev starts it. comrade spurski is totally right, the police here are a lot more lenient than they could have been.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 30, 2013)

Worrying development as EDL have found French allies with experience in nuclear technology


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 30, 2013)

J Ed said:


> That's what I thought the first time I saw it but take another look, Kev starts it. comrade spurski is totally right, the police here are a lot more lenient than they could have been.


 
Something had obv happened before the film starts as the two they tried to push out the way were walking side by side with them and there was a bit of back and forth with them and robinson.

I keep going back to that 3.20-3.27 bit, i am utterly transfixed by their choreogrpahy and tommy's casually thrown in insistence they are only on the charity walk until two. I also like the uncalled for chirp of _charity walk_ from Kev at 14-15 seconds.


----------



## sihhi (Jun 30, 2013)

I blame Gordon Brown. He came up with the nonsense of Armed Forces Day instead of actual social provision, allowing these types their platform.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2013)

the whole thing was a set up by robinson anyway regardless of if they got a slap from AFs. he calls for trouble gets it and whines like a fucken bairn!


----------



## J Ed (Jun 30, 2013)

sihhi said:


> I blame Gordon Brown. He came up with the nonsense of Armed Forces Day instead of actual social provision, allowing these types their platform.


 

It would be interesting to see if that is the connection here. I remember years back there were reports of people from RAF Wittering being abused for wearing uniform in Peterborough, that seemed to be just before the forces' PR machine went into overdrive, and now that overdrive is the new normal.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2013)

nice of them to use a dying kid as cover to attempt to go giving it the biggun in TH


----------



## sihhi (Jun 30, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It would be interesting to see if that is the connection here. I remember years back there were reports of people from RAF Wittering being abused for wearing uniform in Peterborough, that seemed to be just before the forces' PR machine went into overdrive, and now that overdrive is the new normal.


 
Brown's intervention was early 2008, the order was 2007 - probably it was people 2003-2007 wanting to speak to soldiers about stuff in general, all of a sudden was used for specific reasons.


----------



## cesare (Jun 30, 2013)

There've been public military events in Woolwich for a long time. For example my mum dragged us along to hear Vera Lynn sing on the bloody parade ground - must've been around 1976. Probably something to do with the Royal Artillery Band being based there.


----------



## sihhi (Jun 30, 2013)

I think the police action was wrong and counterproductive. Police being there makes ordinary Tower Hamlets people waery and unable to resist these types - which they could have done in large numbers.

If the police wanted to help, which they don't, they could have cancelled nothing and just stood back.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2013)

surely that would have cause a major public order failure?


----------



## thriller (Jun 30, 2013)

Famous 3:20 mark.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 30, 2013)

Fantastic


----------



## emanymton (Jun 30, 2013)

thriller said:


> Famous 3:20 mark.



I see them as more the chuckle brothers myself.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2013)

whining little bairn. he knew he was going to get arrested. he had a letter telling him. the man is a total bell.


----------



## last16 (Jun 30, 2013)

I was surprised at how easy going the Police were with these idiots though I think the wpc or whatever she was/is was out her depth and seemed hesitant to arrest them and told them they were going to be arrested, then more talk until finally they were,is this common practice south of the border or just because it was all being filmed?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 30, 2013)

I think it was just time-wasting and making sure things didn't escalate until the vans pulled up. A soon as they did it was over.


----------



## tony.c (Jun 30, 2013)

last16 said:


> I was surprised at how easy going the Police were with these idiots though I think the wpc or whatever she was/is was out her depth and seemed hesitant to arrest them and told them they were going to be arrested, then more talk until finally they were,is this common practice south of the border or just because it was all being filmed?


No the Met usually go in hard. If he was a left/black/gay/student he would have been just knocked to the ground, jumped on by half a dozen cops and thrown into a police van.
And the police officer isn't a wpc. The male cop with the white thing on his epaulette says she is the senior officer in charge, presumably why she is wearing the gold/yellow thing on her epaulette.
But Robinson just ignores her most of the time, talking at the male cop next to her instead.


----------



## last16 (Jun 30, 2013)

Fair enough,I thought it was just the two of them and the two other guys.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 30, 2013)

last16 said:


> Fair enough,I thought it was just the two of them and the two other guys.


 
I think it was, but it could easily have gone a bit more shouty-pushy if they cuffed them straight off rather than just waiting for the vans. No point in doing that if you've got it all covered anyway.


----------



## last16 (Jun 30, 2013)

Police showing common sense?


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 30, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> from casuals: 'Fucking attention seeking, money grabbing parasite. To be arrested today is a trick only a cunt could pull, and pull it he did.'
> also this: http://www.thejournal.ie/edl-leader-irish-members-945972-Jun2013/


When they talk about "Irish", it seems they're really referring to their Loyalist chums in the UVF/UFF/UVA.



> Stephen Lennon – who runs the hate group under the pseudonym Tommy Robinson – said in an interview with the Irish Post they had “no problem” with the Irish in Britain as long as they had integrated.


----------



## tony.c (Jun 30, 2013)

audiotech said:


> those shorts! Whistle, whistle, whistle.


In a lot of countries it would considered to be insulting the flag to wear it on your arse, but it seems Tommy thinks it's a political statement of some sort.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2013)

*Shameless Bastards! By ‘Malatesta’*​On Saturday, Tommy Robinson of the EDL held what he called a charity walk but which was  in fact a bout of shameless self-publicity and a media grab that fed his nasty little ego for another week but failed to give a much needed boost to his failing and splintered organisation. Tommy had applied to plod for permission for his ‘Charity Walk’ which Scotland Yard denied and told him in no uncertain terms, in a widely distributed document, that he would be arrested, if he entered the East End. 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...01075574.30539.161167380652003&type=1&theater
Here’s a tip: if plod issues a letter telling you they will arrest you if you do something, and you do it, don’t complain when they arrest you. By doing precisely this Robinson got his weekly media fix and so he could disingenuously claim to be some sort of martyr. As opposed to a serial criminal with a long police record. When Robinson contravened the order and was promptly arrested he was luckily accompanied by several TV camera crews all vulturing over him for some easy  pickings. 

Robinson had said he was going to walk from Marble Arch to Woolwich via the East London Mosque to ‘commemorate’ Lee Rigby the soldier who was murdered recently. Apart from the fact that it was highly unlikely he could manage more than a couple of miles, what an inflammatory trip via the mosque had to do with Lee Rigby’s ‘memory’ is anyone’s guess. The little Muppet set off with cousin Beaker and was shadowed by 3 plod vans and our intrepid reporter from EDL News. After barely 10 minutes they stopped off for a McDonald’s – which shows they had no intention of doing the full stretch: greasy fried food is not good for long distance walking. After stuffing their faces they set off again only this time losing their rather overweight cameraman who couldn’t match their bovine pace and dropped further and further behind. We eventually saw him again in Woolwich getting a parking ticket outside Wetherspoon’s. Well done. As the Muppets entered Aldgate there was a confrontation with two anti-fascists which caused Tommy to start whining ‘arrest them! arrest them!’ as the police arrested him. This film shows that KKKev hit out first. 


Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

 
Robinson was dragged off to the plod van where his vain delusions of martyrdom could hatch. In case you don’t know, the charity for which he was embarrassing had rejected him and the EDL’s money as toxic (Help 4 Heroes also rejected EDL money) so his march was not for a sick girl but for a sick boy desperate for column inches. The Rigby family have also publicly distanced themselves from Robinson. 

Meanwhile, we headed off to Woolwich where the Armed Services Day was in full swing. After searching the area we came across a group of 20 anti-fascists but very few EDL. As we headed back into Woolwich we found the EDL unsurprisingly kettled by plod in Wetherspoon’s. They didn’t get the chance to lay flowers in memory of Rigby as the Army barracks didn’t want them hijacking the day and so their mission completely failed. Instead, they did what they do best: got pissed on cheap lager. Well done. 
http://via.me/-cytiv9y

So all in all not a great day for the EDL: leaders arrested; followers denied laying flowers; poor turnout and all round recrimination from right and left for Robinson’s shameless hijacking of Armed Forces Day, Rigby’s murder and the little girl’s charity with even some halfwit bugles from the far right Casuals claiming that he is a ‘f***ing attention seeking, money grabbing parasite.’ Well said you wee arsespangle! 
http://twitpic.com/czw86n

As was intended the EDL foot and mouth soldiers immediately started whinging, claiming that the police were enforcing Sharia law - which was almost as good as when they referred to David Cameron as ‘a cultural Marxist’ (whatever that means). The EDL balloons also claimed that Whitechapel is a ‘no-go area’ for non-Muslims. Sorry fellers but anyone who cares to stroll up Brick Lane for a fine salt beef bagel, stop for a pint in one of the many bars or perhaps even do a wee bit of shopping in Spitalfields will tell you that this is a blatant and absolute lie by made up by people who have obviously never even been there. 
http://twitpic.com/czu0ee

Despite Robinson getting plenty of publicity this week, the EDL completely failed to mobilise any significant numbers on the day or indeed organise much beyond a round at ’Spoons. Be seeing you!


----------



## cantsin (Jun 30, 2013)

Das Uberdog said:


> i think that looks pretty bad. as in, it looks like the arrest was totally disproportionate and uncalled for. don't think we should be too smug about this stuff as the police are flagrantly taking the piss...


 

wtf were they doing walking right past the East London Mosque ?


----------



## Corax (Jun 30, 2013)

cesare said:


> There've been public military events in Woolwich for a long time. For example my mum dragged us along to hear Vera Lynn sing on the bloody parade ground - must've been around 1976. Probably something to do with the Royal Artillery Band being based there.


Until '98 the Royal Naval College just down the road n'all - which meant lots of young forces families in the area.  Although most of us actually _lived_ in the more affordable bits like Plumstead.


----------



## Corax (Jun 30, 2013)

tony.c said:


> No the Met usually go in hard. If he was a left/black/gay/student he would have been just knocked to the ground, jumped on by half a dozen cops and thrown into a police van.
> And the police officer isn't a wpc. The male cop with the white thing on his epaulette says she is the senior officer in charge, presumably why she is wearing the gold/yellow thing on her epaulette.
> But Robinson just ignores her most of the time, talking at the male cop next to her instead.


Yep.  Rather telling that, isn't it...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 30, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Something had obv happened before the film starts as the two they tried to push out the way were walking side by side with them and there was a bit of back and forth with them and robinson.
> 
> I keep going back to that 3.20-3.27 bit, i am utterly transfixed by their choreogrpahy and tommy's casually thrown in insistence they are only on the charity walk until two. I also like the uncalled for chirp of _charity walk_ from Kev at 14-15 seconds.


 
I like the way they say they're on a charity walk in perfect harmony, both pointing at their watches as they do so. It was sort of like a Steps dance routine only more entertaining.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 30, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It would be interesting to see if that is the connection here. I remember years back there were reports of people from RAF Wittering being abused for wearing uniform in Peterborough, that seemed to be just before the forces' PR machine went into overdrive, and now that overdrive is the new normal.


 
TBF if it's anything like it was 15 years ago the Wittering lot used to go out round town in Peterborough, Deeping and Stamford and act like a bunch of complete and utter cocks so it might not _just _have been Muslims giving them abuse!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 30, 2013)

emanymton said:


> I see them as more the chuckle brothers myself.


 
That's exactly what I thought 

But then again the chuckle brothers are communists.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 30, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> TBF if it's anything like it was 15 years ago the Wittering lot used to go out round town in Peterborough, Deeping and Stamford and act like a bunch of complete and utter cocks so it might not _just _have been Muslims giving them abuse!


 

It wasn't just Muslims giving them abuse, a lot of people intimated that it was at the time but IIRC some of the RAF people as well as local politicians said it wasn't.


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## Corax (Jun 30, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I like the way they say they're on a charity walk in perfect harmony, both pointing at their watches as they do so. It was sort of like a Steps dance routine only more entertaining.


 
Reminded me of Harry Enfield's scouse brothers.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 30, 2013)

.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 30, 2013)

***


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## Favelado (Jun 30, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It would be interesting to see if that is the connection here. I remember years back there were reports of people from RAF Wittering being abused for wearing uniform in Peterborough, that seemed to be just before the forces' PR machine went into overdrive, and now that overdrive is the new normal.


 
Well observed. The recent mania for our "heroes" is so unsettling. I left the UK in 2006 and this Fox-news type reverence for the armed services was nowhere near as prevalent. It's an illness our society is suffering from, along with the all the other attitude regressions that seem to be sweeping the UK like Dutch Elm disease at the moment. I used to feel some pride at the fact we were up there with the most tolerant countries in the world. Now Britain seems like an angry, backwards capital for jingoism and reactionary views.

Maybe I'd over-rated us in the first place.


----------



## framed (Jun 30, 2013)

Mal's piece is also on the TAL Blog.

EDL - Shameless Bastards!


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## Das Uberdog (Jun 30, 2013)

cantsin said:


> wtf were they doing walking right past the East London Mosque ?


 

obviously they're trying to stir shit, but i don't think that's really the point. they do have a right to walk past the East London Mosque and tbh i don't really feel comfortable with the police being able to just ban different political groups from various areas of London. as for the proportionality of the arrest, i'd say that Tommy and Kev are now figures with national profiles... for the police to bounce Tommy Robinson in broad daylight, in the centre of London, on his 'charity walk', in the same manner they duff in antifascists would be a media coup for him... as it stands i still think this footage works in his favour.

i think for most people the video will look like they're trying to go about doing their business - get harrassed by antifascists obviously looking for trouble by trailing them - and are then penalised by the police after being attacked.

at the end of the day it just always makes my gut churn watching just about anybody getting fucked over by public order legislation. it's never a good thing and it could always just as easily be you.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2013)

> get harrassed by antifascists obviously looking for trouble by trailing them


 
except he just shoulder barged some randoms and gave them the biggun and so fracas ensued- no suggestion that those lads were anti fash


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## cesare (Jul 1, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> except he just shoulder barged some randoms and gave them the biggun and so fracas ensued- no suggestion that those lads were anti fash


The only suggestion that they were came from Robinson/Carroll.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2013)

arrest him for assault! arrest him for assault! arrest him for assault!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 1, 2013)

That video has had 375,000 views in 24 hours. Job done.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 1, 2013)

...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 1, 2013)

'to me' 'to you tommy' 'to me' ...


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 1, 2013)

View attachment 34762


malatesta32 said:


> 'to me' 'to you tommy' 'to me' ...


 
Tommy the Trekkie


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## Casually Red (Jul 1, 2013)




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## J Ed (Jul 1, 2013)

One weird thing I've noticed re: the EDL and EDL members lately is the way in which they seem to be see recent events in Turkey and Egypt. They seem to get their 'news' from the counter-jihad movement, primarily Pam Geller and Robert Spencer, who portray events in Egypt and Turkey as part of an existential conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims with Muslim Obama on the side of the Muslim Brotherhood because they are controlling the US government. Even more bizarre is EDL interest in the genocide of Rohigya Muslims in Burma, which they see through the lens of pushback against 'global jihad'.


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## jimmer (Jul 1, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> Meanwhile, we headed off to Woolwich where the Armed Services Day was in full swing. After searching the area we came across a group of 20 anti-fascists but very few EDL. As we headed back into Woolwich we found the EDL unsurprisingly kettled by plod in Wetherspoon’s. *They didn’t get the chance to lay flowers in memory of Rigby as the Army barracks didn’t want them hijacking the day and so their mission completely failed.* Instead, they did what they do best: got pissed on cheap lager. Well done.


 
This isn't true. An EDL group of around 50 marched from the Wetherspoons to the barracks, laid flowers and then marched back down the hill to the pub. While at the barracks they were joined by more EDL and there were plenty of others swarming around the area. At a guess there were up to 100 of them around on the day, significantly outnumbering the anti-fascist presence.​


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 1, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> 'to me' 'to you tommy' 'to me' ...


 
He looks like Jimmy Cranky without the cap in that one. I'd never reallised he was such a short arse before.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 1, 2013)

audiotech said:


> 'Charity Walk'


 
I will love you for ever for that


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 1, 2013)

J Ed said:


> One weird thing I've noticed re: the EDL and EDL members lately is the way in which they seem to be see recent events in Turkey and Egypt. They seem to get their 'news' from the counter-jihad movement, primarily Pam Geller and Robert Spencer, who portray events in Egypt and Turkey as part of an existential conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims with Muslim Obama on the side of the Muslim Brotherhood because they are controlling the US government. Even more bizarre is EDL interest in the genocide of Rohigya Muslims in Burma, which they see through the lens of pushback against 'global jihad'.


 
That last part is really fucking depressing - shows how 1) (often perfectly justified) distrust in the mainstream media can open the door for some very sinister forces to try and shape peoples perceptions of what's going on (and if that's right in many cases succeed (as with all conspiracy theory) and 2) how weak the left is - this lot only get the audience they do because people can't relate to left media - we should be winning these people over.


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## butchersapron (Jul 1, 2013)

conspiraloons

Worthless shit. What is wrong with these lib-dems?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 1, 2013)

They've added in an update that basically proves their conspiracy theory is a load of bollocks yet left the conclusion as it was


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## JeffH (Jul 1, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Well observed. The recent mania for our "heroes" is so unsettling. I left the UK in 2006 and this Fox-news type reverence for the armed services was nowhere near as prevalent. It's an illness our society is suffering from, along with the all the other attitude regressions that seem to be sweeping the UK like Dutch Elm disease at the moment. I used to feel some pride at the fact we were up there with the most tolerant countries in the world. *Now Britain seems like an angry, backwards capital for jingoism and reactionary views.*
> 
> Maybe I'd over-rated us in the first place.


 
A bit like your reactionary views towards Millwall fans after the Wembley trouble.


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## JHE (Jul 1, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Well observed. The recent mania for our "heroes" is so unsettling. I left the UK in 2006 and this Fox-news type reverence for the armed services was nowhere near as prevalent. It's an illness our society is suffering from, along with the all the other attitude regressions that seem to be sweeping the UK like Dutch Elm disease at the moment. I used to feel some pride at the fact we were up there with the most tolerant countries in the world. Now Britain seems like an angry, backwards capital for jingoism and reactionary views.
> 
> Maybe I'd over-rated us in the first place.


 

I think there is little or no jingoism.  The support for the troops, including calling them heroes, should not be interpreted as support for the wars.  I believe much of the support people want to express for the troops comes from people feeling sorry for them and feeling sorry for and feeling solidarity with their worried or grieving families.  When arguing that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were disastrous errors and that the troops should be brought home from Afghanistan as soon as possible, I encountered no hostility from the support-our-troops lot in pubs in London and Nottingham.  I found quite a lot of agreement.  Of course if someone were stupid and nasty enough to express opposition to British foreign policy by wishing British troops dead or expressing hostility or contempt for the troops the reaction would be very different.  It would be like wishing your neighbour's son dead.


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## treelover (Jul 1, 2013)

I agree, though  on the EDL FB page there is plenty of jingoism, etc.


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## Favelado (Jul 1, 2013)

JeffH said:


> A bit like your reactionary views towards Millwall fans after the Wembley trouble.


 
You're just like cross-thread traffic!


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## bignose1 (Jul 2, 2013)

Favelado said:


> You're just like cross-thread traffic!


 
Fawwwkkkk Oooorffff


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## Casually Red (Jul 2, 2013)

[quote="JHE, post: 12364802, member:


> I think there is little or no jingoism. The support for the troops, including calling them heroes, should not be interpreted as support for the wars.


 
it seems a little grey to me, in the x factor and premier league poppy hype theres certainly no anti war sentiment allowed for and a heavy pressure to join in. But admittedly thats the work of elites, not ordinary people



> I believe much of the support people want to express for the troops comes from people feeling sorry for them and feeling sorry for and feeling solidarity with their worried or grieving families. When arguing that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were disastrous errors and that the troops should be brought home from Afghanistan as soon as possible, I encountered no hostility from the support-our-troops lot in pubs in London and Nottingham. I found quite a lot of agreement. Of course if someone were stupid and nasty enough to express opposition to British foreign policy by wishing British troops dead or expressing hostility or contempt for the troops the reaction would be very different. It would be like wishing your neighbour's son dead


 
that seems accurate enough. In fact even Griffin takes an outwardly anti war stance and bemoans the foreign policy behind Britains military aggression, which is a populist rather than principled stance.

But the fact is poppy fascism and help for heroes initiatives often seem to be enforced on people, particularly within the popular media. To me thats jingoism
And James McClean was getting death threats for refusing to wear a poppy


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## malatesta32 (Jul 2, 2013)

jimmer said:


> This isn't true. An EDL group of around 50 marched from the Wetherspoons to the barracks, laid flowers and then marched back down the hill to the pub. While at the barracks they were joined by more EDL and there were plenty of others swarming around the area. At a guess there were up to 100 of them around on the day, significantly outnumbering the anti-fascist presence.


 

50 EDL? are you sure? malatesta blog, EDL news and hope not hate where there taking photos and there was not 100 of them. there were 20 in wetherspoons, none of the faces, and then quite a lot of hangers on, local guys and guys with shaved heads and footy tops on as there wd be in woolwich on any saturday. the UAF had pointlessly marched from marble arch to whitechapel then called the day a success. our group saw 20 odd black bloc in the area. it was not the time and place for mass mobilisation.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 2, 2013)

they were laid at the barracks not at the spot rigby was killed in:




you can just see their bouquet on the far right (!).
see other pics and report. 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/1135-tommy-s-walk-of-death-ends-in-arrest


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## butchersapron (Jul 2, 2013)

That's exactly what jimmer said.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 2, 2013)

_Till two o clock_


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## malatesta32 (Jul 2, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> _Till two o clock_


 

?


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## love detective (Jul 2, 2013)

we're on a charity walk


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## butchersapron (Jul 2, 2013)

love detective said:


> we're on a charity walk


 
Don't mate or i'm going to end up wasting the next half hour


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## J Ed (Jul 2, 2013)

https://twitter.com/patcondell/status/351959899376328704


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## butchersapron (Jul 2, 2013)

God, is there anything more tragic than someone walking around shouting this at people:



> I used to be a stand-up comedian. Now I make videos criticising religion and political correctness.


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## audiotech (Jul 2, 2013)

According to UAF, Tommy's been invited to a debate on "nationalism" at the Oxford Union later in the year.


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## ddraig (Jul 2, 2013)

love detective said:


> we're on a charity walk


 
on a chawity wawk, on a chawity wawk


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## treelover (Jul 2, 2013)

audiotech said:


> According to UAF, Tommy's been invited to a debate on "nationalism" at the Oxford Union later in the year.


 

stand by for a UAF/student set piece confrontation.


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## audiotech (Jul 2, 2013)

Charity Money nicked from Mosques.

Hope Not Hate has details on one of the gang, a former BNP candidate.


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## comrade spurski (Jul 2, 2013)

treelover said:


> stand by for a UAF/student set piece confrontation.


 

Not digging or criticising but does that mean that a protest against him would be wrong or is it about the UAF?
I know there is a lot of mistrust re UAF which I understand ... using demos to recruit to SWP; not working with others; not operating effectively etc. so I am just wondering if it is the UAF that would be the issue


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## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2013)

Whilst breaking into any place of worship is despicable, the gangs biggest haul came from commercial burglaries . I found this especially galling :Icon Designs, based at Knuzden, missed out on a £1million contract, and had to lay off 21 workers in the wake of their burglary, he told the Lancashire Telegraph.


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## treelover (Jul 2, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> Not digging or criticising but does that mean that a protest against him would be wrong or is it about the UAF?
> I know there is a lot of mistrust re UAF which I understand ... using demos to recruit to SWP; not working with others; not operating effectively etc. so I am just wondering if it is the UAF that would be the issue


 
Just the way it would be done...


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## comrade spurski (Jul 2, 2013)

Thanks for answering...that's what I figured but wondered as in the past I have heard people argue that 
a) it's undemocratic to stop them speaking
or
b) that we should give them enough rope to hang themselves

I don't agree with either of these ideas personally but wondered if that's what you meant.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2013)

audiotech said:


> According to UAF, Tommy's been invited to a debate on "nationalism" at the Oxford Union later in the year.


 

is there nobody those clowns won't invite to speak?


----------



## J Ed (Jul 3, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> That last part is really fucking depressing - shows how 1) (often perfectly justified) distrust in the mainstream media can open the door for some very sinister forces to try and shape peoples perceptions of what's going on (and if that's right in many cases succeed (as with all conspiracy theory) and 2) how weak the left is - this lot only get the audience they do because people can't relate to left media - we should be winning these people over.


 

This is the sort of thing I mean, I genuinely think he isn't just talking about the size of the demonstrations in Egypt he's talking about the anti-MB protests as if they are part of the existential struggle between Muslims and non-Muslims. It's just weird, but that's how the 'counter-jihad' movement are portraying it.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 3, 2013)

audiotech said:


> According to UAF, Tommy's been invited to a debate on "nationalism" at the Oxford Union later in the year.


 
reported here as well - http://www.cherwell.org/news/uk/2013/07/02/oxford-union-invites-edl-leader


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 3, 2013)

J Ed said:


> This is the sort of thing I mean, I genuinely think he isn't just talking about the size of the demonstrations in Egypt he's talking about the anti-MB protests as if they are part of the existential struggle between Muslims and non-Muslims. It's just weird, but that's how the 'counter-jihad' movement are portraying it.


 

when i was younger and sort of in my zionist phase i used to think this way as well. like muslims could somehow be recruited as part of the "anti-jihad" struggle. 

It's bollocks all right but could it be a way out of it for some of the people in the EDL? like if you think that egyptians fighting against islamists are on the same side as you could that be a way out of hard-right islamophobia as you think about it more and more? 

maybe i'm being too optimistic here...


----------



## emanymton (Jul 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> is there nobody those clowns won't invite to speak?


You? Me?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 3, 2013)

I wouldn't speak at one of their events even if I was invited.


----------



## love detective (Jul 3, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Don't mate or i'm going to end up wasting the next half hour


 

I'm going to watch it one last time then that's it


----------



## krink (Jul 3, 2013)

Is it rude to use your mobile phone when you're doing a charity walk?


----------



## cesare (Jul 3, 2013)

love detective said:


> I'm going to watch it one last time then that's it



I don't believe you


----------



## love detective (Jul 3, 2013)

it's like driving in the snow - totally mesmerising


----------



## krink (Jul 3, 2013)

someone should make one of those 10 hour long loop vids of charriddy wawk


----------



## cesare (Jul 3, 2013)

The spoken equivalent of Neil Kinnock falling endlessly into the sea


----------



## love detective (Jul 3, 2013)

i know it's a bit sad but i prefer watching it 'live' on the original


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 3, 2013)

what is it kev says as they both accept the fact of the nicking? something like 'aww, fucking joke'


----------



## J Ed (Jul 3, 2013)

I wonder if Mo Ansar regrets having this pic done yet


----------



## tony.c (Jul 3, 2013)

love detective said:


> I'm going to watch it one last time then that's it


Seems to have been taken down now anyway.


----------



## framed (Jul 3, 2013)

The EDL's 'pet muslim' Abdul Rafiq (_aka Abdul Hussain_) from Glasgow carried their message of love and tolerance across the water to the streets of East Belfast this weekend.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 3, 2013)

He's not a well man is he?


----------



## framed (Jul 3, 2013)

He is, to coin the phrase, 'educationally sub-normal' and ever-so-slightly mentally unstable. The good news is that he gets double the amount of slaps these days from Celtic supporters and the local Pakistani community, which despises him.


----------



## articul8 (Jul 3, 2013)

FFS - psychiatric help needed


----------



## cesare (Jul 3, 2013)

articul8 said:


> FFS - psychiatric help needed


Developmentally disabled does not mean in need of psychiatric help.

Or were you referring to framed?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 3, 2013)

It's a wonder he hasn't been lynched.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 3, 2013)

He does probably need help aye and I hope he gets the help he needs but I find it hard to have much sympathy.
"educationally subnormal" is a bit off tho


----------



## framed (Jul 3, 2013)

cesare said:


> Developmentally disabled does not mean in need of psychiatric help.
> 
> Or were you referring to framed?


 


I thought it was a cry for help from articul8... 

Abdul's condition doesn't appear to be getting any better, so there may well be a case for medical intervention.

Other than that, we'll just have to wait for someone to put him out of his misery...


----------



## framed (Jul 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> He does probably need help aye and I hope he gets the help he needs but I find it hard to have much sympathy.
> "educationally subnormal" is a bit off tho


 


Will _'thick as shit'_ suffice?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 3, 2013)

is he actually like that tho, or just stupid?


----------



## articul8 (Jul 3, 2013)

it's like he has Stockholm syndrome or something


----------



## framed (Jul 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> is he actually like that tho, or just stupid?


 

What you see is what you get... this is Abdul 24/7.

Loyalists, fascists and racists love him, he's even got a wee residency to sing sectarian songs in a hellhole in Benidorm, which is handy cos he's banned from Ibrox for 5 years for performing the same repertoire. Being a thick-as-shit 'Uncle Tom' does have its compensations.


----------



## treelover (Jul 3, 2013)

On EDl FB site, they have posted up an attack on Unite and calling for people to "pull out of unions"

I wonder as EDL mutate/develop will they set up some sort of 'union'?


----------



## Buckaroo (Jul 3, 2013)

treelover said:


> On EDl FB site, they have posted up an attack on Unite and calling for people to "pull out of unions"
> 
> I wonder as EDL mutate/develop will they set up some sort of 'union'?


 
Why do you wonder that? Why would they? What do you mean?


----------



## treelover (Jul 3, 2013)

Because of the above, their trajectory seems to be expanding, very hostile to what they see as 'left wing unions' I'm not saying it will happen and it would be a very ramshackle affair, like the BNP 'solidarity' union, but it is possible.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 3, 2013)

framed said:


> What you see is what you get... this is Abdul 24/7.
> 
> Loyalists, fascists and racists love him, he's even got a wee residency to sing sectarian songs in a hellhole in Benidorm, which is handy cos he's banned from Ibrox for 5 years for performing the same repertoire. Being a thick-as-shit 'Uncle Tom' does have its compensations.


 
Yeah, what I'm saying is does he really have learning difficulties or what?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 3, 2013)

treelover said:


> Because of the above, their trajectory seems to be expanding, very hostile to what they see as 'left wing unions' I'm not saying it will happen and it would be a very ramshackle affair, like the BNP 'solidarity' union, but it is possible.


 
What does 'their trajectory seems to be expanding' mean? Why and how on earth would they be able to establish a due paying membership organisation that needs to be able to effectively represent people at work?


----------



## framed (Jul 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah, what I'm saying is does he really have learning difficulties or what?


 

AFAIK, he does, but that's based mostly on rumours... so probably not then.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jul 3, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah, what I'm saying is does he really have learning difficulties or what?


 
Possibly. EDL gangs have been trying to groom people with Learning Difficulties for years. Mostly the people with LDs tell them to fuck off.


----------



## framed (Jul 3, 2013)

The guy is quite obviously a vulnerable individual; a loner who has been befriended and 'adopted' by some dubious political elements, initially among loyalists at Rangers and subsequently by the SDL and the EDL.

He hangs around the edges of loyalism and football hooliganism and it's only a matter of time before he gets himself seriously hurt. The recent Glasgow Cup Final played between the development squads of Celtic and Rangers being a case in point. He was very nearly captured at Central Station after the match by some of the younger Celtic casuals, who I'd guess would be less merciful and understanding than some of the older lads might be.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jul 3, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What does 'their trajectory seems to be expanding' mean? Why and how on earth would they be able to establish a due paying membership organisation that needs to be able to effectively represent people at work?


 
Cos Sharia Law Muslamics are the man and jew (due..geddit ) paying membership organisations are...oh fuck, no that doesn't work...it's all so complicated!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 3, 2013)

treelover said:


> On EDl FB site, they have posted up an attack on Unite and calling for people to "pull out of unions"
> 
> I wonder as EDL mutate/develop will they set up some sort of 'union'?


No.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 4, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No.


Aw, shame......... they could have called it 'Disunity'.

The AGM could have been a mass ruck in a witherspoons


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2013)

the EDL cant even run a proper organisation with membership now. they fucked it up with british freedom so how could they run a union? look at the BNPs efforts and they are infinitely better organised than EDL. relatively speaking of course.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2013)

spoof card!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2013)

and the EDL nonce division gets new member Archie Slemen to join Richard Price, Michael Coates, Matthew Woodward, Alan Thomas Ellis, Brett Moses, Jack Edmonds, and SDL additions Stephen Payne and Paul Newlands. 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...ember-s-attempted-rape-of-seven-year-old-girl


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 4, 2013)

It gets more bizarre and tragic though. 

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...l-s-secret-templar-group-run-by-child-rapist#

Looks like they are running about the woods dressed up as knights


----------



## J Ed (Jul 4, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> maybe i'm being too optimistic here...


 

Probably...

From FB:


Yorkshire EDL South Yorkshire Division

Congratulations to the masses in Egypt for standing upto the muSLIME brotherhood - AND WINNING

Yorkshire EDL South Yorkshire Division

This could really be a platform for the rest of the World to unite under 1 banner and rid our World of this evil ideology once and for all b4 its to late, pisslams well on the retreat now, licking the deep wounds its just recieved of its own followers in Egypt. . . . .. What an amazing turn of events, its really uplifting news in these dangerous times, just needed other Middle Eastern Countries to see the light now, which will then hopefully race through Europe, gaining strength as islams smashed everywhere its challenged. . . I HAD A DREAM (M. L. KING)


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 4, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Probably...
> 
> From FB:
> 
> ...


 

But what I'm saying is that they must know "the masses in egypt" are largely muslim yeah? 

Or at least that information is easy to find out? 

In which case it's not so much of a bigger leap to opposing Islamism rather than Islam?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 4, 2013)

*I used to have similar naive views and it's not so far from that to realising that it is political Islam on the lines of the Muslim Brotherhood that needs to be challenged not "muslims", and that opposing Islamism as a religious/political movement does not mean a justification for attacking innocent people and wanting to get all Muslims out of the country. And it may well drive a wedge between people saying that stuff, and the proper ideological islamophobes, hardcore zionists and fash who have been around the far-right a lot longer and think ALL muslims are scum including the secular ones. Or is that naive. *


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 4, 2013)

oops, dunno why the text is bold!


----------



## love detective (Jul 4, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Seems to have been taken down now anyway.


 

Still works for me (not that i've watched it much recently)

I was going to try and do a 'funny' remix of it like all the kids are doing these days, but when I went through and got all the relevant bits of the video out to use it was ten times more funnier than anything I could ever do just playing them in the order they came in.

So here it is - not one clip has been used more than once and it's all in chronological order


----------



## jimmer (Jul 4, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> 50 EDL? are you sure? malatesta blog, EDL news and hope not hate where there taking photos and there was not 100 of them. there were 20 in wetherspoons, none of the faces, and then quite a lot of hangers on, local guys and guys with shaved heads and footy tops on as there wd be in woolwich on any saturday. the UAF had pointlessly marched from marble arch to whitechapel then called the day a success. our group saw 20 odd black bloc in the area. it was not the time and place for mass mobilisation.


 
I had several reports from people in Woolwich at the time, one said 20 but the rest said 50. When I got to Woolwich after the flowers had been put outside the barracks and the main group was back in the Wetherspoons the area was still crawling with the far-right. There's not much point arguing over the exact number of them but I maintain my general point that the day was a success for them and a bad day for anti-fascists.


----------



## cesare (Jul 4, 2013)

jimmer said:


> I had several reports from people in Woolwich at the time, one said 20 but the rest said 50. When I got to Woolwich after the flowers had been put outside the barracks and the main group was back in the Wetherspoons the area was still crawling with the far-right. There's not much point arguing over the exact number of them but I maintain my general point that the day was a success for them and a bad day for anti-fascists.


What I've heard supports what you're saying too. And going back to mal's earlier point about the site of the murder, what happened was that they marched straight past that (possibly didn't even know *exactly* where it was) further up the hill to the barracks entrance.

If you see things in terms of fash v anti fash, I suppose you're right to say that the EDL got their way in terms of doing what they wanted to do. They weren't overtly opposed by anti-fash and there weren't any incidents of note. However, I don't think it was a bad day for anti-fascists. There were enough there to make their presence felt; and as far as the locals were concerned there was no disruption/kicking off and they could get on with normal shopping and stuff even though there were too many OB around for people to feel entirely comfortable *not our friends*. 

It depends what you think anti-fascism should be achieving. I think fascism should be opposed of course, but I'm not sure that a huge kicking off/pushing and shoving, arresting, disruption to the locals - purely to stop the EDL walking up the bloody hill to lay a few flowers would have achieved much. Woolwich has had the far right around for much longer than the EDL, I don't think the EDL have had much impact (as a result of Saturday).


----------



## krink (Jul 4, 2013)

love detective said:


> Still works for me (not that i've watched it much recently)
> 
> I was going to try and do a 'funny' remix of it like all the kids are doing these days, but when I went through and got all the relevant bits of the video out to use it was ten times more funnier than anything I could ever do just playing them in the order they came in.
> 
> So here it is - not one clip has been used more than once and it's all in chronological order




I/m going to go out on a limb here...were they saying they were on a charity walk?


----------



## Corax (Jul 4, 2013)

krink said:


> I/m going to go out on a limb here...were they saying they were on a charity walk?


 
That's just speculation.  You may be right, but they made no mention of it that I can see.


----------



## love detective (Jul 4, 2013)

let's not put words in their mouths


----------



## cesare (Jul 4, 2013)

love detective said:


> let's not put words in their mouths


You're just imposing sharia law now


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2013)

cesare said:


> You're just imposing sharia law now


don't act so offhand about this


----------



## love detective (Jul 4, 2013)

what we're saying now

what we're saying now

what we're saying now is

we're on a charity walk


----------



## love detective (Jul 4, 2013)

they were on a charity walk


----------



## cesare (Jul 4, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> don't act so offhand about this


Needs a walk, a walk, a charity walk


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2013)

cesare said:


> Needs a walk, a walk, a charity walk


a walk for the ARMy?


----------



## cesare (Jul 4, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> a walk for the ARMy?


A sally for the ARMy


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 4, 2013)

Great mug to the camera 14secs in the new vid.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 4, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Great mug to the camera 14secs in the new vid.


 

Innnit


----------



## Corax (Jul 4, 2013)

.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 4, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-...rtheast-Spain-Expat-division/1391107994438027

*EDL English Defence League Northeast Spain Expat division*


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 4, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-...rtheast-Spain-Expat-division/1391107994438027
> 
> *EDL English Defence League Northeast Spain Expat division*


 
OMG........ And how are they defending England exactly?
(Actually England is probably more defended if they are getting bladdered on the Costa's)

Mind you there aint no muslamics in Spain like, cos its miles from any muslamic countries.

Maybe they are defending Gibraltar....... they could go for a walk there......... for cheriddy


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2013)

love detective said:


> they were on a charity walk


----------



## machine cat (Jul 4, 2013)

Look, can we put an end to this, please?

For the past week I have been on public transport, during rush hour, giggling to myself at the words "charity walk" going round and round in my head.


----------



## krink (Jul 4, 2013)

machine cat said:


> Look, can we put an end to this, please?
> 
> For the past week I have been on public transport, during rush hour giggling to myself at the words "charity walk" going round and round in my head.


 
don't get the bus mate, walk! maybe do it for charity?


----------



## machine cat (Jul 4, 2013)

krink said:


> don't get the bus mate, walk! maybe do it for charity?


 
you mean... a charity walk?


----------



## krink (Jul 4, 2013)

machine cat said:


> you mean... a charity walk?


 
yeah, a walk for charity!


----------



## machine cat (Jul 4, 2013)

krink said:


> yeah, a walk for charity!


 
so what you're saying now is...?


----------



## Corax (Jul 4, 2013)

All I need now for my life to be complete is someone to do a mix of _Rebecca Black vs Charidee Wawk_


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2013)

love detective said:


> Still works for me (not that i've watched it much recently)
> 
> I was going to try and do a 'funny' remix of it like all the kids are doing these days, but when I went through and got all the relevant bits of the video out to use it was ten times more funnier than anything I could ever do just playing them in the order they came in.
> 
> So here it is - not one clip has been used more than once and it's all in chronological order





could do with some 'arrest him for assault'


charity walk charity walk

all I'm saying now is arrest him for assault


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 5, 2013)

shameless bastards. they walk to aldgate where they were told they'd been nicked, then said they'd change the route after all just as they were about get nicked, then got nicked. charity walk my arse.


----------



## krink (Jul 5, 2013)

perhaps some clever bugger can do one of those gangnam style vids of chariddy wawk?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 5, 2013)

I know people who run, climb, skydive and race for charity..... how fucking lazy is a charity walk !


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 5, 2013)

If your going JoG to LE fecking not lazy....believe me.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 5, 2013)

They should just stick to charity knitting.


----------



## albionism (Jul 6, 2013)




----------



## albionism (Jul 6, 2013)




----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2013)

hats off, the gurn really makes it


----------



## albionism (Jul 6, 2013)




----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 6, 2013)

reposted them both on Malatesta blog. hilarious.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 6, 2013)

The girl they are walking for has passed away today.

no doubt they will continue to exploit her cause.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 6, 2013)

what happened to her?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 6, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> what happened to her?


 
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=547726421929452&id=506526312716130


----------



## keybored (Jul 6, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-...rtheast-Spain-Expat-division/1391107994438027
> 
> *EDL English Defence League Northeast Spain Expat division*


 
Slogan: "If they hate it there so much they could always leave".


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2013)

cesare said:


> It depends what you think anti-fascism should be achieving. I think fascism should be opposed of course, but I'm not sure that a huge kicking off/pushing and shoving, arresting, disruption to the locals - purely to stop the EDL walking up the bloody hill to lay a few flowers would have achieved much. Woolwich has had the far right around for much longer than the EDL, I don't think the EDL have had much impact (as a result of Saturday).



Completely agree. In fact I think it would be counter productive to stop them hijacking stuff like this. Anti fascists should be defending communities, not preventing the edl from having their ghoulish ceremonies which can easily backfire and be presented as anti fascists 'disrespecting' the war dead etc.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 6, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-...rtheast-Spain-Expat-division/1391107994438027
> 
> *EDL English Defence League Northeast Spain Expat division*



Surely a pisstake?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 6, 2013)

Nope


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 7, 2013)

sadly not C66. i bet they cant even speak the lingo!


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 7, 2013)

A little notice aspect of andy murray's victory today the chair umpire  was Mohamed Lahyani surely a case of #creepingsharia, someone should tell Tommy.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 7, 2013)

The thread about Murray is a good read...


----------



## catinthehat (Jul 7, 2013)

This also - they are upset about Doric.


----------



## Favelado (Jul 7, 2013)

The Catalan EDL? Fucking seriously?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 8, 2013)

Favelado said:


> The Catalan EDL? Fucking seriously?


 
Just had a look at it. No catalans involved. Seems fake to me or the work of one sad sack loner, who says he actually spends more time in the UK than in Spain courtesy of Ryan Air, so expect a duty free division soon). So why the weekend away facebook group? Irrelevant really.

What's next? an EDL tapas division, just to show they're integrated?

He seems to think all lefties are "treehuggers". Well in Catalunya he's in for surprise as most skinheads you see are anti-fascists and they don't do hugs .

Lots of comments/likes on the page are from a Nancy Warren, which is obviously a bogus Fb account set up in the states with just 3 friends; one being a certain robert Spencer, a friend of jihad Watch.


----------



## Favelado (Jul 8, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Just had a look at it. No catalans involved. Seems fake to me or the work of one sad sack loner, who says he actually spends more time in the UK than in Spain courtesy of Ryan Air, so expect a duty free division soon). So why the weekend away facebook group? Irrelevant really.
> 
> What's next? an EDL tapas division, just to show they're integrated?
> 
> ...


 
There is quite a right-wing thread running through a lot of Catalan nationalism though. Both in the mainstream and on the fringes of its politics. I don't know if I agree that most skinheads there would be anti-fascists. I remember the well-reported case of a young man kicking a South American girl in the face and shouting "fucking immigrant" on an FGC train outside Barcelona in 2006/7.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 8, 2013)

Favelado said:


> There is quite a right-wing thread running through a lot of Catalan nationalism though. Both in the mainstream and on the fringes of its politics. I don't know if I agree that most skinheads there would be anti-fascists. I remember the well-reported case of a young man kicking a South American girl in the face and shouting "fucking immigrant" on an FGC train outside Barcelona in 2006/7.


 
Catalan Independentisme is divided into radical left and centre right. The case on the train you mention doesn't negate that numerically most skins here are anti-fascists. Two years ago 2 skinheads stabbed a fascist in Barcelona. The catalan skins tend to be antifa and the spanish immigrant skins tend to be fash.


----------



## Favelado (Jul 8, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Catalan Independentisme is divided into radical left and centre right. The case on the train you mention doesn't negate that numerically most skins here are anti-fascists. Two years ago 2 skinheads stabbed a fascist in Barcelona. The catalan skins tend to be antifa and the spanish immigrant skins tend to be fash.


 
Hi Anudder. Please don't mistake my tone for hostility. What does "Spanish immigrant skins" mean in this context?

Am I allowed to go off topic here or does it need to go to PM?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 8, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Hi Anudder. Please don't mistake my tone for hostility. What does "Spanish immigrant skins" mean in this context?
> 
> Am I allowed to go off topic here or does it need to go to PM?


 
second generation from other provinces of Spain. Usually working class and living in the satalite towns outside the cities, who, though born here have anti-catalan sentiments.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 8, 2013)

Anyway, the expat Fb will have something to chirp about soon as the Catalan government intends to pass a law banning the Burka in public places (facial covering). This will ensure that 8 women out of a population of 6,000,000 people in Catalunya face the prospect of having to stay indoors.

It's clearly a pathetic attempt to draw attention away from the real problems. Ironically 6,000,000 is the number of unemployed in Spain as a whole but you won't find that on an EDL FB.


----------



## Favelado (Jul 8, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> second generation from other provinces of Spain. Usually working class and living in the satalite towns outside the cities, who, though born here have anti-catalan sentiments.


 
I might PM you instead of taking this thread totally off the rails.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 8, 2013)

no keep on it, its good stuff to know!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 8, 2013)

not very good turnout for ipswich EDL. 25! about 100 in ashton.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-23217041


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 8, 2013)

good grief! cos mosley did so well electorally didnt he? 

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/right-wing-extremists-launch-bid-revive-4879230


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 8, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Catalan Independentisme is divided into radical left and centre right. The case on the train you mention doesn't negate that numerically most skins here are anti-fascists. Two years ago 2 skinheads stabbed a fascist in Barcelona. The catalan skins tend to be antifa and the spanish immigrant skins tend to be fash.


Boxios Nois?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> good grief! cos mosley did so well electorally didnt he?
> 
> http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/right-wing-extremists-launch-bid-revive-4879230


 
Why has Stark got a pic of  young black kid on his wall? 

With the NF getting two votes in an election last thursday there clearly is room for a mainly electoral far-right party. Oh hang on.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 8, 2013)

take yr pic butchers! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/its-far-right-alphabetti-spaghetti-time/


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> take yr pic butchers!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/its-far-right-alphabetti-spaghetti-time/


Missed british movement


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 8, 2013)

duly noted and corrected!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2013)

British People's Party?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 8, 2013)

Ayrian Strike Force
Racial Volunteer Force
British Freedom Fighters


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 8, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Boxios Nois?


 
They're made up of different elements. The casuals being the most right wing. They have changed since their foundation in 81 and there has been some spanish infiltration over the years though they retain their catalan credentials.

Spanish flags here are seen as a symbol of oppression. Recently one Boixos Nois flag had the spanish and a catalan flag together, which is something unacceptable to the vast majortiy of catalans, hooligans or not.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 8, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> They're made up of different elements. The casuals being the most right wing. They have changed since their foundation in 81 and there has been some spanish infiltration over the years though they retain their catalan credentials.
> 
> Spanish flags here are seen as a symbol of oppression. Recently one Boixos Nois flag had the spanish and a catalan flag together, which is something unacceptable to the vast majortiy of catalans, hooligans or not.


From my limited knowledge (knocking about with Herri Norte Taldea) they are a bit more then right wing, they are full on fash, no? death heads and swazi's on display.


----------



## framed (Jul 8, 2013)

Boixos Nois leaders are mostly fash, but it's probably incorrect to define them all as such. Met a few ex-members of theirs when Celtic played over there and it was the rightward drift of the mob in the last decade or so that drove them out. There's also a good little mob of 'Free Catalonia' progressive casuals/ultras that I've met who do their own smaller displays in support of independence, anti-fascism and solidarity with Palestine and Ireland.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 8, 2013)

After asking around I now have it that the Boixos Nois are seen as increasingly "españolista" (pro Spain). This is isolating them in a region which has an historical claim for seperation from Spain, especially as these fash have embedded themselves inside what is an institution, FCB.

What would be a good comparison? A section of right wing fans waving union jack flags at a Celtic match?

There were attempts to get a campaign started against them but nothing has come of it. They are described as confused politically (not organized by or affiliated to any party) and involved in small time drug trafficking.

At the end of the day any catalan fascism must be linked to spanish fascism which is the traditional oppressor of Catalonia, and is therefore seen by most as an enemy. This negative relationship with Spain has ensured that a massive chunk of the independentista movement is radical left.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 8, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> After asking around I now have it that the Boixos Nois are seen as increasingly "españolista" (pro Spain). This is isolating them in a region which has an historical claim for seperation from Spain, especially as these fash have embedded themselves inside what is an institution, FCB.
> 
> What would be a good comparison? A section of right wing fans waving union jack flags at a Celtic match?
> 
> ...


 
Thanks, I didnt realise they were pro Spanish, they do the whole antimadridista thing, but maybe that is purely football related?, whats the storey with them and espanyol now, are they still massive rivals?, I know there were a few BN done for murdering one of the espanyol hools a few years ago, but would they see themselves on the same side politically now?

I regards to Catalan fascism being linked to spanish fascism do you not think it would be more akin to the right wing movements in Breizh?

Sorry if this is derailing the thread a little.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 8, 2013)

is there any websites on this? be useful to see whats going on.


----------



## framed (Jul 8, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> What would be a good comparison? A section of right wing fans waving union jack flags at a Celtic match?


 
Yeah, that would be a fair comparison were it ever to happen at Celtic... God forbid!


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 9, 2013)

framed said:


> Yeah, that would be a fair comparison were it ever to happen at Celtic... God forbid!


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 9, 2013)

http://twitpic.com/d1o7dc



main story here
http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/news/article/6709/soldier-brutally-attacked-in-street


----------



## BK Double Stack (Jul 9, 2013)

*The mother of the soldier has asked it be made clear the attackers were white British men.*


----------



## Corax (Jul 9, 2013)

BK Double Stack said:


> *The mother of the soldier has asked it be made clear the attackers were white British men.*


 
Check the comments underneath the article too - posted before that had been confirmed.  Dickheads by the dozen


----------



## one 2 3 (Jul 9, 2013)

Another soldier attack and killed In Rochdale wonder when the E.D.L would try and blame Muslims for this one

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...eller-admits-killing-dedicated-marine-4887950


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why has Stark got a pic of young black kid on his wall?
> 
> With the NF getting two votes in an election last thursday there clearly is room for a mainly electoral far-right party. Oh hang on.


 

appears to be a black policeman in the background of the Mosley pic


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 9, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://twitpic.com/d1o7dc
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

*POSTED BY FUCK YOU COMMUNISTS I TUE 9TH JUL 2013 AT 1:04AM*
_This comment has been deleted for breaching our site terms.  _


----------



## cdg (Jul 10, 2013)

Has this been posted?



All he did was defend himself against that big dopey lump. Lol, Robinson the soft cunt ''arrest him for assault, arrest him for assault''


----------



## grogwilton (Jul 10, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> From my limited knowledge (knocking about with Herri Norte Taldea) they are a bit more then right wing, they are full on fash, no? death heads and swazi's on display.


 
This is also what I've heard. Read a bit a go in a St Pauli fanzine and article about a trip with HNT to play Barca in the Spanish cup final or something, and that for the most of the day Barca mobs had been looking for HNT and any St Pauli hangers on.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 10, 2013)

grogwilton said:


> This is also what I've heard. Read a bit a go in a St Pauli fanzine and article about a trip with HNT to play Barca in the Spanish cup final or something, and that for the most of the day Barca mobs had been looking for HNT and any St Pauli hangers on.


 
it might be worth asking framed about this. he's been on to that kind of thing of late.


----------



## one 2 3 (Jul 10, 2013)

My opinion is there not full on fash but do little to discourage the fash in there ranks
I seen things that give me that opinion 30/40 bolton e.d.l doing nazi salutes  in one of the meeting bars in Nottingham 2011.
What they are is Zionist puppets doing there hate munguls for them.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 10, 2013)




----------



## framed (Jul 11, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> it might be worth asking framed about this. he's been on to that kind of thing of late.


 

I think in general the estimation of the BN as leaning to the far right is accurate, but I'll ask a left-wing Barca fan I know for his views on them as I've not really kept up to date with football politics there recently, although I have been keeping an eye on the fortunes of the Catalan independence movement.


----------



## albionism (Jul 11, 2013)

cdg said:


> Has this been posted?
> 
> 
> 
> All he did was defend himself against that big dopey lump. Lol, Robinson the soft cunt ''arrest him for assault, arrest him for assault''




Been posted and remixed!


----------



## albionism (Jul 11, 2013)




----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 11, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> take yr pic butchers!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/its-far-right-alphabetti-spaghetti-time/


 
No Surrey Border Front?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2013)

Wessex special ointment?


----------



## J Ed (Jul 11, 2013)

EDL Polish Division https://www.facebook.com/EnglishDefenceLeaguePolishDivision?fref=ts


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 11, 2013)

Isn't someone who posts on this thread involved in the EDL News site? Seem to remember Corax or Fingers maybe? I want to make them aware of an error/omission in this article (the woman concerned is a friend of mine).


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2013)

Corax? Do something? Wrong chap.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 11, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Wessex special ointment?


 
Cream of Somerset


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2013)

The x1 to bristol suicide squad.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 11, 2013)

Was it fingers then? I'm sure one of the regular posters on this thread was involved.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2013)

Fingers - don't know.


----------



## love detective (Jul 11, 2013)

No mention of the British Workers Party either


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 11, 2013)

love detective said:


> No mention of the British Workers Party either


 
not fash though, they loved reggae and Sikhs


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 11, 2013)

The Shirley-Milbrook Casual Racists


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 11, 2013)

Maybe bolsover wasn't cool enough.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2013)

What happened to Ex Marxists for Griffin?


----------



## love detective (Jul 11, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> not fash though, they loved reggae and Sikhs


 

the ex Marxists for Griffin external faction were though


----------



## love detective (Jul 11, 2013)

great minds chuck!


----------



## Corax (Jul 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Isn't someone who posts on this thread involved in the EDL News site? Seem to remember Corax or Fingers maybe? I want to make them aware of an error/omission in this article (the woman concerned is a friend of mine).


 
Fingers. I briefly did some subediting (just grammar & spelling stuff really), but there's rarely any need any more.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2013)

love detective said:


> great minds chuck!


 cadre


----------



## treelover (Jul 11, 2013)

The coming man?

someone's now got an art director


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 11, 2013)

They appear to have stretched the flags horizontally and stretched Tommy 'shortarse' Robinson vertically - was the photo done in a hall of mirrors or something?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 11, 2013)

Corax said:


> Fingers. I briefly did some subediting (just grammar & spelling stuff really), but there's rarely any need any more.


 
Cheers mate. I think I've got it sorted now but I'll PM fingers if not.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 11, 2013)

treelover said:


> The coming man?
> 
> someone's now got an art director


 
I keep expecting him to exclaim 'we're on a chawiddy wawk' then turn around and gurn at the camera!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2013)

'In Hoc' to whom?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 11, 2013)

you know,  like on fags and stuff


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 11, 2013)

It's latin for 'made by Vince's signs' - like a sponsorship or something.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2013)

Latin adds credibility to everything- if you have a latin motto they makes you totally legit and not a crap church n king mob


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 12, 2013)

treelover said:


> The coming man?
> 
> someone's now got an art director


Looks like a rejected album cover for '100th Window'.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 12, 2013)

Also, either his shirt is far too big for him or he's wearing a charcoal grey version of the shopcoat sported by the fella from open all hours (not Granville, the other one)

Edit - see:


----------



## albionism (Jul 12, 2013)




----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 12, 2013)

In fact he's wearing a women's shirt (or blouse to those of us with extensive knowledge of the fashion) - look at the way the buttons do up.

(either that or the image has been reversed but I think my explanation is funnier)


----------



## J Ed (Jul 12, 2013)

The Latin is very weird especially considering some of the anti-Catholic stuff they come out with


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 12, 2013)

I don't think latin is the sole preserve of Catholicism. Everyone may use it.  quod erat demonstrandum


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 12, 2013)

It's inevitable that someone will do it so just to get it over with: Can someone do the don't let the bastards grind you down one, the one you can find etched into plaques on the desks of twats the world over. I think it's nil illigitimus carborundum or something.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 12, 2013)

Doveryai no proveryai


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 12, 2013)

That's easy for you to say


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 12, 2013)

The Blackshirt is a fashionable item for some


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 12, 2013)

should the Latin not read: misero mihi omnem pecuniam tuam?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 12, 2013)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> should the Latin not read: misero mihi omnem pecuniam tuam?


 
Is that Latin for Doing a Charity Walk?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 12, 2013)

are any of these groups actually real?
Surrey Border Front 
Wessex special ointment - footy mob? 
 British Workers Party
 bristol suicide squad -also a footy mob?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 12, 2013)

EDL - 'stultismuss et semper ebrium'


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 12, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> .


interesting.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 12, 2013)

treelover said:


> The coming man?
> 
> someone's now got an art director


Not a very good one if that is anything to go by.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 12, 2013)

someone on ere was saying the the direction flags point is indicative of political stance. if so the flags here are pointing left.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 12, 2013)

sorry for reposting but this is inspiring!


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 12, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> In fact he's wearing a women's shirt (or blouse to those of us with extensive knowledge of the fashion) - look at the way the buttons do up.
> 
> (either that or the image has been reversed but I think my explanation is funnier)


 
Looks like the standard SI overshirt (200 quid) - but his mum has sewn the compass onto the wrong arm after it got ripped off in the wash without telling him.


----------



## tony.c (Jul 12, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Latin adds credibility to everything- if you have a latin motto they makes you totally legit and not a crap church n king mob


But Latin was brought into this country by invading foreigners who also introduced an alien religion originating from the Middle East.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 12, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> are any of these groups actually real?
> Surrey Border Front
> Wessex special ointment - footy mob?
> British Workers Party
> bristol suicide squad -also a footy mob?


 
Wasn't the British Workers Party one of Jonny Favourite's creations?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 12, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Is that Latin for Doing a Charity Walk?


Close

"Send us all of your money"


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 12, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> are any of these groups actually real?
> Surrey Border Front
> Wessex special ointment - footy mob?
> British Workers Party
> bristol suicide squad -also a footy mob?


 
Surrey Border Front definately


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 12, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Wasn't the British Workers Party one of Jonny Favourite's creations?


 
vice versa more like


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 12, 2013)

tony.c said:


> But Latin was brought into this country by invading foreigners who also introduced an alien religion originating from the Middle East.


 

*shakes woad stained fist*
the bastards


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 12, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-23291268

Part of a town has been sealed off by police after reports of "a loud bang" near a mosque in the West Midlands.

Today, of all days.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 12, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Today, of all days.


 
Are you suggesting errant Orangemen are involved?


----------



## Corax (Jul 12, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> *shakes woad stained fist*
> the bastards


 
The beaker people *will* be avenged!


----------



## miktheword (Jul 12, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> are any of these groups actually real?
> Surrey Border Front
> Wessex special ointment - footy mob?
> British Workers Party
> bristol suicide squad -also a footy mob?


 



well, if they are real, they're taking their names from Football firms, Bradford's 'Ointment'
Shrewsbury's EBF English Border Firm and Burnley's Suicide Squad.
'Today of all days' refers to Lee Rigby's funeral?
I  did think that I read from the family that they wanted no retaliation after his death. There were some MFE saying they were approached through a contact of the family a couple of weeks ago, to go to his funeral after they did the security for his memorial walk in Woolwich. Not sure if they ended up going.


----------



## tony.c (Jul 12, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Are you suggesting errant Orangemen are involved?


Or confused senile grouse-shooters?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:
			
		

> Was it fingers then? I'm sure one of the regular posters on this thread was involved.



I think it might be yeah.


----------



## framed (Jul 12, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Or confused senile grouse-shooters?


 

Too early for grouse shooting, their 'Glorious 12th' is another month away...


----------



## tony.c (Jul 12, 2013)

framed said:


> Too early for grouse shooting, their 'Glorious 12th' is another month away...


that's why I said 'confused senile'.


----------



## framed (Jul 12, 2013)

I thought their 'confusion' might have been less about which "12th" it is and more to do with substituting a nail bomb for shotgun and pellets...


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 12, 2013)

Lee Rigbys Funeral init.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 12, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> someone on ere was saying the the direction flags point is indicative of political stance. if so the flags here are pointing left.


 

I think that's illustrated flags.


----------



## laptop (Jul 12, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> someone on ere was saying the the direction flags point is indicative of political stance. if so the flags here are pointing left.


 
But from his point of view - and what other is there in his world? - they're pointing right. Stage right, as it were.

Though the observation that the shirt's reversed l-to-r suggests someone lost an argument and flipped the image.

Also, he's (now) looking stage left (house right) which typically denotes "into the future".


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 12, 2013)

miktheword said:


> well, if they are real, they're taking their names from Football firms, Bradford's 'Ointment'
> Shrewsbury's EBF English Border Firm and Burnley's Suicide Squad.
> 'Today of all days' refers to Lee Rigby's funeral?
> I did think that I read from the family that they wanted no retaliation after his death. There were some MFE saying they were approached through a contact of the family a couple of weeks ago, to go to his funeral after they did the security for his memorial walk in Woolwich. Not sure if they ended up going.


 
Never the less Surrey Border Front were real and I stand by that.


----------



## framed (Jul 12, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Never the less Surrey Border Front were real and I stand by that.


 

Which borders were they protecting, England's or Surrey's?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 13, 2013)

Is this diddyman?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23263754
1:07 into the clip 1/2 way down the page
Standing behind the Help for Heroes banner


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 13, 2013)

yes it is the little scab. how can he get round the country to all these things when he doesn't have a job? why is he so prominent with the liverpool assault case hanging over him? 
http://liveraf.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/five-infidels-arrested-for-attack-on-musician-in-july/
pleased to report he got bricked and then slapped in brighton on the MfE washout.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 13, 2013)

bomb stuff
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/41...-Midlands-mosque-hour-after-Lee-Rigby-funeral
eejit robinson: 'could turn out to be sectarian Sunni v Shia.'


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 13, 2013)




----------



## albionism (Jul 13, 2013)

^hahahahaha^ Tommy Robinson, lead us to our future!


----------



## Corax (Jul 13, 2013)




----------



## J Ed (Jul 13, 2013)

Tommy Robinson does seem to be a particularly pathetic little man to base a personality cult around but they've managed it...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 13, 2013)

'our savior' (sic!)??????????????????????


----------



## Favelado (Jul 13, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Tommy Robinson does seem to be a particularly pathetic little man to base a personality cult around but they've managed it...


 
Yeah, he's not really got what it takes to have the 200ft portrait in Trafalgar Square has he? I guess that's not been a problem in North Korea though.


----------



## laptop (Jul 13, 2013)

Favelado said:


> I guess that's not been a problem in North Korea though.


 
Presumably the Kim that _founded_ the dynasty had what it takes...


----------



## J Ed (Jul 13, 2013)

So... who remembers Nationalist Brony's appearance here?

He, or someone like him, has got a tattoo...


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 13, 2013)

Not EDL related but for Bristolians and others - although they appear to be ignoring the phone.



> Tonight, the Bristol County Sports Club on Christmas Steps / Colston St hosts a gig with far-right fascist bands. The headline band is Close Shave.
> 
> The venue management have been made aware of fascist involvement with this particular gig but have decided to allow it to go ahead.
> 
> Please contact the venue and ask them to reconsider their decision - 0117 927 3534


----------



## audiotech (Jul 13, 2013)

'kin' 'ell, J Ed, I've just had me tea.


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 13, 2013)

laptop said:


> Presumably the Kim that _founded_ the dynasty had what it takes...


Stalin's blessing and 300,000 Chinese red guards


----------



## love detective (Jul 13, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> sorry for reposting but this is inspiring!





The original intention was for a professional to do the promo video, but after wasting about 6 months and coming up with a load of shite - I ended up doing it myself

Still got a load of stuff that was transferred from VHS to digital for it which wasn't used that I keep meaning to put up on youtube


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 14, 2013)

Can anyone direct me to some info on Jeff March (?) and others who run the Casuals United blog?

Edit: Jeff Marsh sorry


----------



## framed (Jul 14, 2013)

Google search for Jeff Marsh Casuals United

Casuals United wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casuals_United

Casuals United blog: http://casualsunited.wordpress.com/

Hope Not Hate on Jeff Marsh: http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/1948/marsh-steps-up-war-of-words-with-edl

Indymedia: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/02/506613.html


----------



## ddraig (Jul 14, 2013)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Jeff Marsh hooligan#
a complete dickhead and a disgrace
and

if you have time to waste and want a laugh


----------



## J Ed (Jul 14, 2013)

He's pretty prominent






What do you want to know? Plenty to sift through here


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 14, 2013)

J Ed said:


> He's pretty prominent
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mainly interested in how the blog works - a lot of posts are attributed to 'Zoe' or 'Stacey' on there, wonder how likely it is these are written by Marsh or whether there are other known writers who post on there.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 14, 2013)

ddraig said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Jeff Marsh hooligan#
> a complete dickhead and a disgrace
> and
> 
> if you have time to waste and want a laugh




Argh, he used Pink Floyd at the end. The scumbag.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 14, 2013)

marsh is fuck all, a washed up old hooligan who even the local soccer firm despises. he's been chased out of most places he's turned up. kylie and chardonnay are his little admirers and they are fuck all as well.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 14, 2013)

love detective said:


> The original intention was for a professional to do the promo video, but after wasting about 6 months and coming up with a load of shite - I ended up doing it myself
> 
> Still got a load of stuff that was transferred from VHS to digital for it which wasn't used that I keep meaning to put up on youtube


 

LD. i know you must have put the hours in on the promo and this is well cheeky but if you could put the material into a viewable format it wd be most welcome!


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> marsh is fuck all, a washed up old hooligan who even the local soccer firm despises. he's been chased out of most places he's turned up. kylie and chardonnay are his little admirers and they are fuck all as well.



Who posts as 'Stacey'? I'm mostly interested in full real names.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 15, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> 'our savior' (sic!)??????????????????????


Tommy.... he's our Saveloy


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> marsh is fuck all, a washed up old hooligan who even the local soccer firm despises. he's been chased out of most places he's turned up. kylie and chardonnay are his little admirers and they are fuck all as well.


 

Are Kylie and Chardonnay 'Zoe' and 'Stacey'? Thought 'Zoe' might be Zoe Smith maybe. Really really need full names if anyone has them!


----------



## J Ed (Jul 15, 2013)

dot


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Apparently ... but also uses the name Zoe Smith, presumably related to Jeff Marsh.


 

Great, thanks mon. Does Joe Marsh also write for them?


----------



## J Ed (Jul 15, 2013)

dot dot dot


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 15, 2013)

J Ed said:


> So... who remembers Nationalist Brony's appearance here?
> 
> He, or someone like him, has got a tattoo...


 

that is horrific and why is it in rainbow colours?


----------



## tony.c (Jul 15, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> why is it in rainbow colours?


He's a gay Nazi?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2013)

J Ed said:


> He does, yes. Also Stacey is Sarah Jayne Humberstone


 

BRILLIANT. Where are you getting this from? Inbox me if you want.


----------



## framed (Jul 15, 2013)

tony.c said:


> He's a gay Nazi?


 

Or his tattoo artist is... 

That has got to rank as one of the very worst fash tattoos ever. FFS, I can almost appreciate the art in the Viking mythology/Tolkenesque shit that some of them get done, but that has to be the silliest tattoo work that I've ever seen on a fascist.


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 15, 2013)

framed said:


> Or his tattoo artist is...
> 
> That has got to rank as one of the very worst fash tattoos ever. FFS, I can almost appreciate the art in the Viking mythology/Tolkenesque shit that some of them get done, but that has to be the silliest tattoo work that I've ever seen on a fascist.


 

Its so my Little Pony ...maybe his hero was Horse Wessel....!


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Jul 15, 2013)

In norse mythology there is the rainbow bridge and odin rides an 8 legged horse. I would guess it is a very piss poor attempt at that. Or maybe it was the 8 legged horse that had the tattoo gun!


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2013)

Imagine how many charity walks you could get done on an eight legged horse...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 15, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> Imagine how many charity walks you could get done on an eight legged horse...


Would blatantly be full of trots


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 15, 2013)

These wern't fascists....just right of the centaur.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2013)

i cant believe someone hasnt come out with the 'needs more unicorns and shit' line - as this has both in abundance.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 15, 2013)

rather entertaining. does anyone have a link to the bit at 50 secs in?


----------



## juice_terry (Jul 15, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> rather entertaining. does anyone have a link to the bit at 50 secs in?




Think that was in Russia or Sweden saw the full footage a while back so can't be too sure


----------



## ddraig (Jul 15, 2013)

,


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2013)

more dodgy types exposed: 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...-members-caught-in-anonymous-paedophile-sting


----------



## J Ed (Jul 16, 2013)

What I don't get with all these Zulus in the EDL, I thought they were supposed to be an anti-racist firm so why are their members joining EDL marches and talking about being in Combat 18?


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> rather entertaining. does anyone have a link to the bit at 50 secs in?




I think it's an attack on fascists in Moscow, 2006/07.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jul 16, 2013)

tony.c said:


> But Latin was brought into this country by invading foreigners who also introduced an alien religion originating from the Middle East.


 

And English was a collection of words brought here from Northern Germany,Friesia and Scandanavia.
The language here at the time of the Romans is still here, in Wales, Scotland and Cornwall. The Saxons, Angles and Jutes drove the indigenous population into what is now Wales.
In Welsh the word for England is Lloegr roughly translated as the lost land.
Shall we all get our bags packed now?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 16, 2013)

Sprocket. said:


> And English was a collection of words brought here from Northern Germany,Friesia and Scandanavia.
> The language here at the time of the Romans is still here, in Wales, Scotland and Cornwall. The Saxons, Angeles and Jutes drove the indigenous population into what is now Wales.
> In Welsh the word for England is Lloegr roughly translated as the lost land.
> Shall we all get our bags packed now?


 

Yeah. Bugger off back where you came from, you scrounging Anglo Saxon bastards. Lloegr for the Welsh! Mewnfudwyr gwaedlyd, maent yn dod draw yma, yn cymryd ein swyddi a'n tir ...


----------



## Sprocket. (Jul 16, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> Yeah. Bugger off back where you came from, you scrounging Anglo Saxon bastards. Lloegr for the Welsh! Mewnfudwyr gwaedlyd, maent yn dod draw yma, yn cymryd ein swyddi a'n tir ...


 

So long, and thanks for all the fish.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 16, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> Yeah. Lloegr for the Welsh! Mewnfudwyr gwaedlyd, maent yn dod draw yma, yn cymryd ein swyddi a'n tir ...


 

thats easy for you to say spackle!


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> thats easy for you to say spackle!


 

It's not that easy to say, my welsh isn't as good as it should be


----------



## framed (Jul 16, 2013)

J Ed said:


> What I don't get with all these Zulus in the EDL, I thought they were supposed to be an anti-racist firm so why are their members joining EDL marches and talking about being in Combat 18?


 

The Zulus were not 'an anti-racist firm', that was a construct promoted by some of their black lads for a particular TV documentary.

One of the best known Villa hooligans is black. He wasn't the only black fella in Villa's firm either, but it didn't stop most of their white members associating with the NF and driving others out of the firm if they were on the left, or Irish republican sympathisers.


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Jul 16, 2013)

J Ed said:


> What I don't get with all these Zulus in the EDL, I thought they were supposed to be an anti-racist firm so why are their members joining EDL marches and talking about being in Combat 18?


 

Because they are not zulus just hanger on idiots using the name to boost their silly little egos up. There was a band up there that was connected to c18 that some of the younger blues and villa followed bitd, but that was more for the loyalist shit then the nazi bit. I used to follow the mighty Baggies all over the country and you get to know and hear things and blues were never a racist firm imo. Villa had their elements and it was one of theirs that wrote that book on the Edl i know, which suggests their lot are more likely to be towards the right.


----------



## framed (Jul 16, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Because they are not zulus just hanger on idiots using the name to boost their silly little egos up. There was a band up there that was connected to c18 that some of the younger blues and villa followed bitd, but that was more for the loyalist shit then the nazi bit. I used to follow the mighty Baggies all over the country and you get to know and hear things and blues were never a racist firm imo. Villa had their elements and it was one of theirs that wrote that book on the Edl i know, which suggests their lot are more likely to be towards the right.


 

I have good mates who were involved with Villa's firm and who went on to become AFA activists in Birmingham. A few lads that did the business regularly with AFA were well-known 'faces' at Villa in the 80's, but they also had to watch their backs constantly as the firm was predominantly fash.

There was also a couple of Blues lads involved with AFA, but they weren't black and none of this element of the so-called 'anti-racist firm' got seriously involved in anti-fascism. Maybe they did their own thing (pre-AFA in the 80's) but there's little evidence of them doing anything post-1990 according to my sources in Birmingham AFA.

When Celtic played Blues in a pre-season friendly in 1995, we had the biggest off with any firm we'd had since the mid-1980's with hundreds on each side fighting outside the Dubliner in Digbeth. The Zulus were happy enough that day to unite against "the IRA" and link up with the fash. They got run in the end, but it was one of the biggest fights the CSC had been in for years.

*Birmingham City v Celtic TAL Nº 14 1995 *



> Another mob tried to attack us from a side street but, again, they were ran. They then decided to seek refuge behind the lines of police who had quickly appeared and our attackers showed their true colours by Sieg Heiling us and singing their favourite ditty of the moment, _"No Surrender to the IRA"._ All this after being chased off and then hiding behind the cops - what was that about "No Surrender'? The Celtic Casuals answered this with a chant of _"BNP - wank, wank, wank!"_
> 
> This went some way towards letting the black lads from the Birmingham 'Zulus' know that our fight was not against them but against the fascists and loyalists whose intentions are to smash the Irish. Many Celtic fans were surprised to see black guys fighting on the same side as the nazis - why be so shocked that the Zulus should fall for the same anti-Irish crap that is absorbed by most England fans? They weren't giving nazi salutes like the others but they were up for the row and therefore suffered the same fate as their fair weather friends. It's disappointing but hopefully the Zulus will have learned to choose their friends more carefully in future. I remember well in the early eighties how Villa NF supporters used to put stickers around the Holte End saying, "Villa shits on Black Zulus". Yet, against Celtic, the Zulus were prepared to fight on the same side as the Villa fascists!


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 17, 2013)

SpackleFrog said:


> It's not that easy to say, my welsh isn't as good as it should be


 

Spackleszie Deutch ?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 17, 2013)

J Ed said:


> What I don't get with all these Zulus in the EDL, I thought they were supposed to be an anti-racist firm so why are their members joining EDL marches and talking about being in Combat 18?


 

in my researches into footy firms the antiracist thing appears overplayed - tho i am sure framed or bignose may disagree on some cases. mickey francis and his man city black firm co-existed with the NF city firm -who were well known round MCR as bignose will tell you! brum zulus had a lot of black guys as did others but there was a distinct element of 'the blacks are alright, its the asians i cant stand!' type of specific racism amongst some of the firm. this is generalisation.

edit: sorry just a quick response, didnt read all of the above. nanatesta wants her laptop back.


----------



## framed (Jul 17, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> in my researches into footy firms the antiracist thing appears overplayed - tho i am sure framed or bignose may disagree on some cases. mickey francis and his man city black firm co-existed with the NF city firm -who were well known round MCR as bignose will tell you! brum zulus had a lot of black guys as did others but there was a distinct element of 'the blacks are alright, its the asians i cant stand!' type of specific racism amongst some of the firm. this is generalisation.
> 
> edit: sorry just a quick response, didnt read all of the above. nanatesta wants her laptop back.


 

There's a tendency among lefties to confuse skin pigmentation with 'anti-racism', which is in itself a bit patronising and racist innit?

A football firm that is multiracial in make-up does not automatically confer 'anti-fascist' or 'anti-racist' status on it. Cass Pennant at West Ham, for example, is a good bloke who stands for no racism around him, but the penny hasn't dropped yet with regard to the fash from Lazio that have established relations with the ICF in recent years.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 17, 2013)

great info! cheers F


----------



## framed (Jul 17, 2013)

Gave me an excuse to contact some old friends in Brum. They are scathing about the political/anti-racist credentials claimed by former Zulus and detailed some of their more reactionary activities over the years, but I'm saving that info for another project.


----------



## Lorca (Jul 17, 2013)

I'm a big blues fan, used to follow them every game home and away over about a 15 yr period mainly in the 90's -was at that celtic game (was embarrassing to be a nose that day tbh) and i never once got the impression that the zulus were anti-racist, or even vaguely political - i always thought they were and still are really about money (at least the 'proper' zulus, not the hangers on). have heard some truly horrible stories about things people calling themselves zulus are alleged to have done, well beyond 'hooliganism.' definately the vile had a racist element ime but i'm not at all surprised theres a racist element at blues. i've heard blues fans occasionally going on about tensions simmering between asian lads and white lads in areas like small heath, but it always sounds exaggerated to me, though i don't live in brum now tbf.


----------



## Gerry1time (Jul 17, 2013)

Sprocket. said:


> The language here at the time of the Romans is still here, in Wales, Scotland and Cornwall. The Saxons, Angles and Jutes drove the indigenous population into what is now Wales.


 
It's increasingly looking like they didn't in many places. For example, the Dobunni, the pre-roman celtic tribe round here (Bristol and up into the Cotswolds), seem to have continued on pretty much unchanged, apart from being renamed the Hwicce, right through Saxon times. Theology, boundaries and population all largely unchanged. Even the word Hwicce recognises the celtic belief systems. New words were introduced of course, but many celtic place names still survive in different places, the multiple River Avons being notable examples.

If anything it was the Normans that brought the greatest changes, but then they themselves were originally Viking.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 17, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Spackleszie Deutch ?


Personally I preferred the ones John Hughes directed himself.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jul 18, 2013)

Gerry1time said:


> It's increasingly looking like they didn't in many places. For example, the Dobunni, the pre-roman celtic tribe round here (Bristol and up into the Cotswolds), seem to have continued on pretty much unchanged, apart from being renamed the Hwicce, right through Saxon times. Theology, boundaries and population all largely unchanged. Even the word Hwicce recognises the celtic belief systems. New words were introduced of course, but many celtic place names still survive in different places, the multiple River Avons being notable examples.
> 
> If anything it was the Normans that brought the greatest changes, but then they themselves were originally Viking.


 

Precisely, I may not have expressed it in such an academic way but my point being we are all from immigrant stock even the Celts.
It is borders, whether physical,cultural, religious or by language that make us open to exploitation by the elites.
Fascists are fuelled by fear, ignorance and intolerance.
Perhaps instead of seeing them all as jack booted thugs,we should see them for what they basically are, scared workers who have been easily swayed by the influence of those who gain profit from our divisions.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2013)

framed said:


> There's a tendency among lefties to confuse skin pigmentation with 'anti-racism', which is in itself a bit patronising and racist innit?
> 
> A football firm that is multiracial in make-up does not automatically confer 'anti-fascist' or 'anti-racist' status on it. Cass Pennant at West Ham, for example, is a good bloke who stands for no racism around him, but the penny hasn't dropped yet with regard to the fash from Lazio that have established relations with the ICF in recent years.


 

dead right. just cos you have 'loads of black mates' does not mean you cant be racist against other folk. in hickmotts massively disingenuous book, armed for the match, there is a guy  up on the headhunters trial called  'black willie' who had a red hand badge and claimed he didnt know what it meant just that 'the colours look good.'  such shite. and black people cant be racist? hmm.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

Hang on, a black bloke hanging around with racists doesn't make him racist.  A bit of a mug yes, but why racist?

Stop reading these idiot hooligan books as well.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2013)

because the headhunters had well known connections to C18 etc. 
they are not 'idiot hooligan books' they are 'working class oral histories full of truthful accounts from folks who never did nuffink honest officer.'


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2013)

i didnt say BW was racist by the way. just that he hung about with known racists.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

That's not an answer to my question.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i didnt say BW was racist by the way. just that he hung about with known racists.


 
You tied the informal grouping of some black people with these other people as proof that black racism exists in society. The latter point is not made by the former at all. You don't actually spend all your time with your hooligan mates btw. You don't go to the pictures together.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2013)

'Hang on, a black bloke hanging around with racists doesn't make him racist. A bit of a mug yes, but why racist?' 
i didnt say BW was racist by the way. just that he hung about with known racists.'

also i dont believe he didnt know what the Red Hand badge was given the amount of loyalist shit in footy. 
i also said black people can be racist and white people who have black mates can be racist too.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> You don't actually spend all your time with your hooligan mates btw. You don't go to the pictures together.


 
yes sometimes you go to the discoteque as well!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> You tied the informal grouping of some black people with these other people as proof that black racism exists in society. The latter point is not made by the former at all. You don't actually spend all your time with your hooligan mates btw. You don't go to the pictures together.


 

do you not think black people are racist? do you not think BW was aware of loyalist politics? and far right connections? i have never worn a badge without knowing what it symbolised.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

Of course black people can be racist ffs. Guess what they can be loyalists too. Esp in liverpool. Who though, was using this bw prat as a symbol for all black people who sometimes end up on the same side as racists during 'an event'.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 18, 2013)

framed said:


> I have good mates who were involved with Villa's firm and who went on to become AFA activists in Birmingham. A few lads that did the business regularly with AFA were well-known 'faces' at Villa in the 80's, but they also had to watch their backs constantly as the firm was predominantly fash.



I'm perplexed about the appeal of football firms for the most part but even more so when it's anti-fash fighting alongside fash. The mind boggles.


----------



## tony.c (Jul 18, 2013)

In the 70s there used to be the odd mixed race teenager with their NF supporting white mates. One of the guys I knew was nicked fighting with a mixed race guy at an anti-fash mobilisation in Welling. The OB thought my mate was the fash, and the mixed race guy got a few slaps in the police van. My mate got some food in the cells while the other guy got nothing.
When it came to court, they met outside and agreed to say it was nothing political, just an argument over some owed money, and they both got conditional discharges.


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Of course black people can be racist ffs. Guess what they can be loyalists too. Esp in liverpool. Who though, was using this bw prat as a symbol for all black people who sometimes end up on the same side as racists during 'an event'.


 

I doubt that BW was someone who just happened to end up on the same side as racists at 'an event'. He was a black man who was a member of a football firm that was not just predominated by racists, it was run by organised fascists.

In lefty parlance, he was reinforcing his own oppression, unwittingly, but all the same...

Now, let me check my privilege...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> do you not think black people are racist? do you not think BW was aware of loyalist politics? and far right connections? i have never worn a badge without knowing what it symbolised.


 
I don't think black people are racist, no. I don't think white people are racist either.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

framed said:


> I doubt that BW was someone who just happened to end up on the same side as racists at 'an event'. He was a black man who was a member of a football firm that was not just predominated by racists, it was run by organised fascists.
> 
> In lefty parlance, he was reinforcing his own oppression, unwittingly, but all the same...
> 
> Now, let me check my privilege...


 
Once more, i'm not on about bw - i'm on about more than that. The idea that if you fight with someone you therefore share their ideas lock stock, you yourself rather undermined that idea in your posts above. Does it only work in certain cases?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Of course black people can be racist ffs. Guess what they can be loyalists too. Esp in liverpool. Who though, was using this bw prat as a symbol for all black people who sometimes end up on the same side as racists during 'an event'.


 

i wasnt using him to say all black people are racist. i said 
'there is a guy up on the headhunters trial called 'black willie' who had a red hand badge and claimed he didnt know what it meant just that 'the colours look good.' such shite. and black people cant be racist? hmm.'

note full stop which denotes a new idea or concept.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

Which full stop are you on about? What's the new idea or concept?  I only see one consistent idea across the whole post.


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm perplexed about the appeal of football firms for the most part but even more so when it's anti-fash fighting alongside fash. The mind boggles.


 

I said that some of those who eventually got involved in AFA in Brum had a past at Villa in the 80's, they weren't all rounded out lefties and anti-fascists in their teens. There were various little firms attached to Villa that came together on match days. There was conflict within the firm between the Villa NF and a group of lads who came mainly from Irish backgrounds, it wasn't a case of being 'all in it together' and I did not imply anything of the sort in my op.


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Once more, i'm not on about bw - i'm on about more than that. The idea that if you fight with someone you therefore share their ideas lock stock, you yourself rather undermined that idea in your posts above. Does it only work in certain cases?


 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

framed said:


> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


 
HOOLIGANS!!!!! HOOLIGANS!!! MILO BOOKS!!!!! FACES!!! LADS!!!! MOBBING UP!!!!! DONE 'EM PROPER!!!!!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 18, 2013)

framed said:


> I said that some of those who eventually got involved in AFA in Brum had a past at Villa in the 80's, they weren't all rounded out lefties and anti-fascists in their teens. There were various little firms attached to Villa that came together on match days. There was conflict within the firm between the Villa NF and a group of lads who came mainly from Irish backgrounds, it wasn't a case of being 'all in it together' and I did not imply anything of the sort in my op.



Fair dos. I thought you meant simultaneously.


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Fair dos. I thought you meant simultaneously.


 
No mate, apologies if I gave that impression...


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> HOOLIGANS!!!!! HOOLIGANS!!! MILO BOOKS!!!!! FACES!!! LADS!!!! MOBBING UP!!!!! DONE 'EM PROPER!!!!!


 

Oh do fuck off you knob... how many fash did you do last Saturday, there was plenty in your town, wasn't there?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

None, there was a few people who turned up for a gig at a venue we often use and we got some info from a bit of spotting, but not quite what we were after. Anything else in the local circumstances would have been stupid.


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> None, there was a few people who turned up for a gig at a venue we often use and we got some info from a bit of spotting, but not quite what we were after. Anything else in the local circumstances would have been stupid.


 

Good for you, just a few people turned up for a gig was it... lol


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

Hang on, you mean the rangers city thing, not the gig at the sportsman? In that case, what are you suggesting should have been done?


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Hang on, you mean the rangers city thing, not the gig at the sportsman? In that case, what are you suggesting should have been done?


 

I'm not suggesting anything, just asking questions of the man who likes to scoff...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

We all like to scoff now and again mr framed. This morning i've been agreeing with your point that loosely belonging to a firm doesn't mean that you are necessarily a far-righter or an anti-fascist. Whether you are black or white.


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

Excuse me while I counter-scoff...

Are you incapable of calling it a football match, or is that too MIlo Books 'geezerish' for you?

Oi'm thinking of going to that ball-with-foot thing, oi am...

"_the rangers city thing"  _


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

football match
thing

which is shorter?

'The rangers city football match' - is that the sort of thing i would write?

The Australia tour of England and Scotland, 2nd Investec Test: England v Australia at Lord's?


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

I dunno wtf you're on about much of the time, you're a nit-picking prick is what I do know...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

framed said:


> I dunno wtf you're on about much of the time, you're a nit-picking prick is what I do know...


 
You've just tried to pull me up for not typing the  phrase 'football match'.


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

match would have been sufficient love


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

As would thing. Love? Treacle?


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

Fuck off now please.

Moi lover...


----------



## manny-p (Jul 18, 2013)

I awake to read some good banter from Framed and BA


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 18, 2013)

am lost now ... exeunt omnes.


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

Thank Worzel Gummidge for the derailment 'thing'...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

The cricket match is on now. You can can all crack on safely.


----------



## manny-p (Jul 18, 2013)

framed earlier teaching kids about militant antfascism


----------



## framed (Jul 18, 2013)

manny-p said:


> framed earlier teaching kids about militant antfascism


 

Too late Worzel, that kind of reverse psychology from the village idiot doesn't quite work.

Do the others down your way know how you play with yourself here?


----------



## manny-p (Jul 18, 2013)

framed said:


> Too late Worzel, that kind of reverse psychology from the village idiot doesn't quite work.
> 
> Do the others down your way know how you play with yourself here?


 
Lol what?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

I think he's got confused. But to answer the question. Yes, they do. They support me in it. They don't understand why i do it though.


----------



## manny-p (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I think he's got confused.


 Story of my life.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> The cricket match is on now. You can can all crack on safely.



The cricket thing, surely?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2013)

Just the cricket, but that's a bit too informal for worzel.


----------



## Firky (Jul 18, 2013)

It's lovely outside you know?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 19, 2013)

coppers miffed at cost of policing the edl
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23364013
£10million in 4 years


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 19, 2013)

ddraig said:


> coppers miffed at cost of policing the edl
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23364013
> £10million in 4 years


 

note the galling use by plod of the words 'mutual aid.' robinson also claims they are peaceful. does he really believe that? EDL demos always end in arrests and fights, whether antifascists are there or not.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2013)

ddraig said:


> coppers miffed at cost of policing the edl
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23364013
> £10million in 4 years


 

Bob Jones


----------



## Fingers (Jul 19, 2013)

Meet Clare from Redditch when she chats to BBC WM about the Brum demo (this morning i think). There are not enough Facepalms in the world

https://soundcloud.com/garyhastings/clare-from-redditch


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2013)

latest 'malatesta' on brum: 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/07/20/dumb-in-brum/


----------



## Corax (Jul 20, 2013)

So. Lots of EDL, drinking early, standing around in a heatwave shouting at shrubbery.

They're gonna be toppling like dominoes aren't they?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 20, 2013)

Are they all contained to broad street or are there other pockets of EDL about the city? I'm popping into town this afternoon for a drink with a mate and I don't fancy walking down the wrong street only to bump into some neanderthal.


----------



## Corax (Jul 20, 2013)

cynicaleconomy said:


> Are they all contained to broad street or are there other pockets of EDL about the city? I'm popping into town this afternoon for a drink with a mate and I don't fancy walking down the wrong street only to bump into some neanderthal.


 
Just grab a bit of 2x4 before you go.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 20, 2013)

Corax said:


> So. Lots of EDL, drinking early, standing around in a heatwave shouting at shrubbery.
> 
> They're gonna be toppling like dominoes aren't they?


Heatstroke all round!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 20, 2013)

Corax said:


> Just grab a bit of 2x4 before you go.


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 20, 2013)

Probably a massive troll but would be funny if true


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2013)

looks like everything is going to plan:


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 20, 2013)

Fighting amongst themselves again?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 20, 2013)

wtf is up with his guts?


----------



## Corax (Jul 20, 2013)

Serotonin said:


> Probably a massive troll but would be funny if true


 
Donating the proceeds to charity after being pressured by plod to play host seems legit (local news article) - but not so sure about it being Islamic Relief...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2013)

jings! its baton time!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2013)

had to post this for irony's sake:


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2013)

demotix pix: 
http://www.demotix.com/news/2271187...anti-fascist-protest-birmingham#media-2272482


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 20, 2013)

A few thousand there today it seems, bigger numbers than they would normally get. I daresay the good weather has an impact. The size of the demo often seems to be related to how nice a day out it's going to be. Stood in a carpark in the rain in a small town in December - shit turnout. Peak of summer, heatwave, school holidays just started etc better turnout.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 20, 2013)

I see the non-racist EDL have been distributing the old "denying your race is treason" placards again


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 20, 2013)

Very few far-right opposing the James Larkin march in Liverpool this afternoon, compared to last year. A few nickings. I'll post a linky to photos later.


----------



## Corax (Jul 20, 2013)




----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 20, 2013)

nice 'I have no idea what is going on' expression from the man in the second row with the hat. Camera must have caught him at bang on the wrong moment


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2013)

liverpool latest:  
Police have confirmed they made a total of 11 arrests at the James Larkin march through the city centre today. They said a small number of protestors turned out as a result of the march and police arrested 11 people for various offences including possession of a controlled drug, breach of the peace, and racially aggravated public order. Those arrested have been taken to police stations on Merseyside where they will be interviewed by officers.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2013)

corax can you rephrase that lennon pic and just write below them both: TWATS.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jul 20, 2013)

Corax said:


> Donating the proceeds to charity after being pressured by plod to play host seems legit (local news article) - but not so sure about it being Islamic Relief...


 

Why not?  Unless you know something about Islamic Relief that I don't?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 20, 2013)

ffs, calling for re installation of the spy cameras 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-23390232


> *'Getting somewhere'*
> The EDL said it was protesting because it wanted the reintroduction of "spy" CCTV cameras in the Washwood Heath and Sparkbrook areas of the city.
> 
> More than 200 cameras - including some which were covert - were put up in the two districts in 2010, paid for with £3m of government money to tackle terrorism.
> ...


----------



## Corax (Jul 20, 2013)

purenarcotic said:


> Why not? Unless you know something about Islamic Relief that I don't?


 No, not saying that at all.  Maybe it _*is*_ true.  Just seems a little too neat and convenient.  Would love it if it turned out to be the case, but not seen any evidence of it so far beyond that screenshot.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jul 20, 2013)

Corax said:


> No, not saying that at all. Maybe it _*is*_ true. Just seems a little too neat and convenient. Would love it if it turned out to be the case, but not seen any evidence of it so far beyond that screenshot.


 

Oh, I see.  I thought you meant there was something dodgy about the charity which is what had confused me. 

Yes, who knows how true it really is.  Can but hope though I guess!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2013)

so, a cracking day for EDL heads it seems.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 20, 2013)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Very few far-right opposing the James Larkin march in Liverpool this afternoon, compared to last year. A few nickings. I'll post a linky to photos later.


 
Demotix pics here - http://www.demotix.com/news/2273484/peaceful-james-larkin-march-liverpool


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 20, 2013)

Took my kid to a sea side festival today.... just saying.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> looks like everything is going to plan:


i hope that's a t-shirt and not his belly poking out


----------



## laptop (Jul 20, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i hope that's a t-shirt and not his belly poking out


 
I was just wondering whether it was 'shopped...


----------



## ddraig (Jul 20, 2013)

this one is alright too


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 20, 2013)




----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 20, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> looks like everything is going to plan:


 
I knew it was hot today but when it's enough to melt your beer gut someone's taking the piss!


----------



## bamalama (Jul 20, 2013)

Have people on here heard about a murder last month in thamesmead of a disabled man, which seems to be attracting the interest of various fascist and edl type organisations? I can't get a link posted but thought it might be relevant to this thread and possibly the demo today in Birmingham.A mate of mine from Coventry who has a lose family connection to the victim was telling me about it earlier.


----------



## Casually Red (Jul 21, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm perplexed about the appeal of football firms for the most part but even more so when it's anti-fash fighting alongside fash. The mind boggles.


 

bfc dynamo in berlin are just...fuck i dunno . Stasi used to own the team so itd be safe to say theyre the most hated team in germany , Hells Angels bought it for a while later. The cops class the supporters as category c, because basically all their fans are hooligans . Id say well over 60 percent are fash,maybe even 70 percent, the rest a combination of quite mad anti fash and old school easties who want the wall back up . Its an _interesting_ experience going for a few pints with that lot after a match in some shithole estate in the deep east .


----------



## FNG (Jul 21, 2013)

Development in the Mosque Bombing case.The two ukrainians are being linked to the murder of an elderly muslim
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...n-suspect-held-for-killing-muslim_863576.html


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 21, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> looks like everything is going to plan:


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 21, 2013)

bamalama said:


> Have people on here heard about a murder last month in thamesmead of a disabled man, which seems to be attracting the interest of various fascist and edl type organisations? I can't get a link posted but thought it might be relevant to this thread and possibly the demo today in Birmingham.A mate of mine from Coventry who has a lose family connection to the victim was telling me about it earlier.




I have seen something doing the rounds on stalkerbook. A summary of which is 'look at this awful murder, committed by a muslim, LOOK, LOOK, LOOK, 3rd one this year, MEDIA is hiding it from us!' as if being Muslim and committing murder is far worse than being any other religion and committing murder.

My response to this being posted was. 'Absolutely horrific, now can you post up a link/story for every single murder committed by non-muslims in this country too, if not, why not?' 

I never did get a response. Obviously.


----------



## keybored (Jul 21, 2013)

ddraig said:


> wtf is up with his guts?


Stella Six-Pack.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 21, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Took my kid to a sea side festival today.... just saying.





what a fucken eejit, taking a bairn to a potentially violent demo.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 21, 2013)

He made the papers for it

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/child-caught-up-violence-edl-2071005


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 21, 2013)

What a complete & utter fucking twat.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jul 21, 2013)

I'd estimate there were 1k max


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 21, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> He made the papers for it
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/child-caught-up-violence-edl-2071005


 

well done, you he got in the papers for being a twat. exeunt wife!


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Jul 21, 2013)

Looks like the Diddymon got done for possession of coke yesterday - http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/...st-12-at-james-larkin-march-in-liverpool.html


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 21, 2013)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> Looks like the Diddymon got done for possession of coke yesterday - http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/...st-12-at-james-larkin-march-in-liverpool.html


 
Ha ha ha ha.....the utterly useless prick...wonder where his groomer pal Pinkyham went yesterday.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 21, 2013)

It's almost like these twats carry coke on them to get lifted, to boost their creds


----------



## Serotonin (Jul 21, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> He made the papers for it
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/child-caught-up-violence-edl-2071005


 
I hope someone calls Social Services on him.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 21, 2013)

What kind of cunt takes a kid that age to a demo where it's likely to kick off? Regardless of whether it's a cause I support that's a cunt's trick and he doesn't deserve to be a father.

Poor little fucker


----------



## SchNEWS (Jul 21, 2013)

SchNEWs on Brum - updated today






*Yo,ho,ho and a Battle of Brum*

UPDATE:  Sunday 21st July
Not the best showing for anti-fascism yesterday in Birmingham, a couple of dozen autonomous anti-fascists actually made the effort to confront the EDL at their muster pub. Meanwhile the UAF rally ¾ of a mile away attracted a mere two hundred.
SchNEWS spoke to one of those who confronted them “They'd been shut in the pub for three hours and were completely pissed, reallyb drunk and baying for blood. It was when they got the pig's heads out we made our move – we were massively outnumbered but that was step too far.” After scuffles the two groups were seperated by cops in public order gear.
With that said the EDL rally attracted around a 1000 – certainly a huge jump from their disastrous outings to Cambridge or Walthamstow and indicative of how they've benefitted from the Lee Rigby bounce but nowhere near what their leadership was hoping for.
The fash didn't fare so well in Liverpool however where a mission of number of the EDLs splinter groups to disrupt an Irish republican march descended into farce as twelve of them were nicked for offences ranging from racially aggravated abuse to possesion of cocaine – party on dudes!
The EDLs next outing is to be a return to Tower Hamlets – at the moment scheduled for September 7th.

http://antifascistnetwork.wordpress.com/

he English Defence League are to hold their first national rally planned since the death of Lee Rigby in Birmingham this Saturday (20th). Tensions are running high after attempted nail bomb attacks on mosques in Tipton and Walsall.
The EDL are being corralled into a pub in Broad Street for up to three hours before being allowed out for the short walk to Centenary Square at around 2pm. They will then be bussed out again. This looks like the very same operation as the last outing for the League to the city in 2011 that saw over a 1000 cops put the city centre on lock-down.
However this time round the EDL have achieved a degree of success in capitalising on the death of Lee Rigby. Their last national demo, in Newcastle, planned months in advance but occurring just days after the murder saw an estimated 1,500 EDL on the streets. Two days later and anti-fascists found themselves outnumbered again in Downing St. The league are likely to get good numbers out in Birmingham.
However on the plus side the various 'Strong' groups that sprang up in the wake of Rigby's killing seem to have run their course. Either they failed to attract a great deal of support in the first place or they acted in ways to distance themselves from the EDL such as Woolwich Strong donating money to an Islamic cultural centre.
Anti-fascists also mobilised quickly to disrupt various EDL attempts to seize the moment with impromptu wreath laying ceremonies.
Although the mainstream media couldn't get enough of Tommy Robinson, covering his 'charity walks' on national TV and inviting him onto Newsnight, thankfully armed forces charity Help for Heroes refused to have anything to do with him or the EDL, a stance that denied them legitimacy in constituency, they're desperate to colonise.
BRUM RUSH
So why Birmingham? The EDL have a chequered history here in fact their very first demo in August 2009 saw running battles with Asian youth in the city centre. Back then SchNEWS asked “Who benefits from images of radicalised Asian youth fighting with outnumbered white men?” and examined the EDL's efforts at creating a strategy of tension between communities. This strategy has borne fruit in the number of anti-Muslim attacks that have occurred since Rigby was killed. Tommy's recent attempts to walk solo into Tower Hamlets under the guise of a charity walk are part of the same strategy – what he really wanted was for the Muslim youth of the area to be goaded into attacking him or the police so he could claim there was a 'no-go area' for whites in the capital city.
The EDL revisit this rhetoric in the explanation on their website of why they're coming to Birmingham, demanding “Why is there an ‘occupied territory’ or a ‘no-go area’ in the heart of our second largest city?” and stating as a fact “Muslims however, seek to impose their own set of laws and belief systems on the people of England, while showing contempt for British law and democracy.” The fact that there isn't a no-go area and that outside of a few nutters the Muslims of Britain are up to no such thing doesn't deter them from going on to say “More importantly, we are not going to stand idly by [while] Birmingham become literally the Tora Bora valley of England. Our ancestors fought the Romans, the Vikings, the French and destroyed the Nazis.”
(SchNEWS note to the EDL historical division: the Romans and Vikings invaded successfully, the struggle with the French could at best be described as a draw and this proud island nation had quite a lot of help with beating Adolf)
Wild historical comparisons aside, the EDLs mission in Brum is to galvanize race hate and to create scenes of race war. It is imperative that anti-fascists of all backgrounds are on the streets to oppose them.

For more autonomous anti-fascism see ANTI FASCIST NETWORK


----------



## cantsin (Jul 21, 2013)

[quote="framed, post: 12409072, member: 50923"*]I dunno wtf you're on about much of the time*, *you're a nit-picking prick* is what I do know...[/quote]


bit harsh from someone who didnt seem able tell tell Manny from BA.and spent a few posts expressing his problem with 'thing' ? weird....


----------



## bamalama (Jul 22, 2013)

Rutita1 said:


> I have seen something doing the rounds on stalkerbook. A summary of which is 'look at this awful murder, committed by a muslim, LOOK, LOOK, LOOK, 3rd one this year, MEDIA is hiding it from us!' as if being Muslim and committing murder is far worse than being any other religion and committing murder.
> 
> My response to this being posted was. 'Absolutely horrific, now can you post up a link/story for every single murder committed by non-muslims in this country too, if not, why not?'
> 
> I never did get a response. Obviously.


 
 Aye that's the one. It seems a strange one to me and I think there's more to it (fuck all to do with religion imo).It's been widely reported in the local media but received little or no national exposure, apparently, and some family and friends of the victim have put 2 and 2 together and come up with a coverup conspiracy based on the alleged attackers religion.
It's being called another attempted beheading...My mate was directed to a bnp website for the story by his brother who lives in Brum, and when he pulled him on it the response was along the lines of so what at least they're carrying the story!
I thought i'd mention it in case people who run anti organisations /websites weren't aware of whats happening on the ground up there.I was also wondering if the edl in the midlands have managed to use it for recruitment,"build" demos etc.Fairly dangerous when the frustration and anger of grieving people dovetails with fascist propaganda...Thanks for the reply rutita.


----------



## manny-p (Jul 22, 2013)

FNG said:


> Development in the Mosque Bombing case.The two ukrainians are being linked to the murder of an elderly muslim
> http://zeenews.india.com/news/world...n-suspect-held-for-killing-muslim_863576.html


 
I am very surprised that other than you FNG. No one on here is talking about the two Ukranians.


----------



## tony.c (Jul 22, 2013)

manny-p said:


> I am very surprised that other than you FNG. No one on here is talking about the two Ukranians.


I think people are waiting for something definite. At the moment police are just questioning them.


----------



## FNG (Jul 22, 2013)

I think it has been mentioned on another thread,
Thought it was relevent on this thread as both cases have been mentioned.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I think people are waiting for something definite. At the moment police are just questioning them.


 
and about a murder


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 22, 2013)

love detective said:


> Still works for me (not that i've watched it much recently)
> 
> I was going to try and do a 'funny' remix of it like all the kids are doing these days, but when I went through and got all the relevant bits of the video out to use it was ten times more funnier than anything I could ever do just playing them in the order they came in.
> 
> So here it is - not one clip has been used more than once and it's all in chronological order





LD, i know its nice out and that but can you pleeeeese do something on this?



'toilet ... toilet ... toilet... toilet .. muslim! ... toilet... toilet... toilet ... toilet ... toilet ... criminal offence!'


----------



## mr steev (Jul 22, 2013)

manny-p said:


> I am very surprised that other than you FNG. No one on here is talking about the two Ukranians.


 

 I posted here about it as it's not about EDL. One of them has been charged with the murder of a 75 year old bloke in Brum a while ago. There doesn't seem to be much in the press about it at all


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2013)

You sure he's been charged? One has been released now according to a kiev paper.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> LD, i know its nice out and that but can you pleeeeese do something on this?
> 
> 
> 
> 'toilet ... toilet ... toilet... toilet .. muslim! ... toilet... toilet... toilet ... toilet ... toilet ... criminal offence!'





the same sort of stuff has happened on student etc demos to be fair.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 22, 2013)

His story would be better if you didn't see people go in and out of them.


----------



## mr steev (Jul 22, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> You sure he's been charged? One has been released now according to a kiev paper.


 

No, sorry, my mistake. He hasn't been charged but arrested  'for a further act of terrorism'. The local paper posted a story today but with no mention of one of them being released


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2013)

mr steev said:


> No, sorry, my mistake. He hasn't been charged but arrested 'for a further act of terrorism'. The local paper posted a story today but with no mention of one of them being released


 
Can only see the kiev paper story saying that, so wouldn't take it as fact.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 22, 2013)

Classy


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Classy


----------



## Corax (Jul 22, 2013)

((((Brighton Pavilion))))


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 22, 2013)

Defending England, one portaloo and a brick at a time.....

http://twitpic.com/d438sb


----------



## ddraig (Jul 22, 2013)

fucks sake
where are the snatch squads when you need one!


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Classy


 

 Nice watch


----------



## weepiper (Jul 22, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> What the scraggy titless tranny with the mans watch....yeah classy


 

wtf?


----------



## Corax (Jul 22, 2013)

weepiper said:


> wtf?


 
Indeed...


----------



## comrade spurski (Jul 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Defending England, one portaloo and a brick at a time.....
> 
> http://twitpic.com/d438sb


 

can you imagine that happening on any other demo ... the old bill would have beaten everyone shitless and sent out snatch squads...

Mind you it's good to see the EDL standing up for good old fashioned values


----------



## belboid (Jul 22, 2013)

mr steev said:


> I posted here about it as it's not about EDL. One of them has been charged with the murder of a 75 year old bloke in Brum a while ago. There doesn't seem to be much in the press about it at all


charged now - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23403961


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 22, 2013)

weepiper said:


> wtf?


 
Ok..a bit OTT...Ill amend.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 22, 2013)

ddraig said:


> wtf is up with his guts?


 

weight loss leaving loose skin


----------



## mr steev (Jul 22, 2013)

belboid said:


> charged now - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23403961


 

The other bloke has been released without charge now


----------



## Corax (Jul 22, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Ok..a bit OTT...Ill amend.


 
Fair play for holding your hands up.  But it wasn't "OTT", it was misogynistic and transphobic.  I know they say 'fight fire with fire', but I'm not sure fighting bigotry with bigotry is actually a sound move...


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 22, 2013)

News to nobody im sure.

http://pastebin.com/V6ug0uk4


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 22, 2013)

Corax said:


> Fair play for holding your hands up. But it wasn't "OTT", it was misogynistic and transphobic. I know they say 'fight fire with fire', but I'm not sure fighting bigotry with bigotry is actually a sound move...


 
Ok...most people on here will know Im not a bigot but irony can get lost(hence the original)...I coughed it as OTT for that reason. So fuck context.....your point taken.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> News to nobody im sure.
> 
> http://pastebin.com/V6ug0uk4


 
Well, apart from the Chief Constable being unlikely to be writing to TR over operational stuff like this, the person who signed it isn't the chief constable. Come on.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 22, 2013)

i was sus there was no E-mail address in there, i checked the name not job tittle... oh well.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> News to nobody im sure.
> 
> http://pastebin.com/V6ug0uk4


 

'We're looking for a specific few members of your organization and were wondering if we could gain furhter access to the IP logs of your server.' im pretty sure he's already informed SB!
edit: reads previous post. doh!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 22, 2013)

EDL say UAF throwing bricks. see 5secs in for EDL throwing bricks at plod.
http://twitpic.com/d438sb 
then plod going hertz car rental at 25. must be muslamic cops.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> News to nobody im sure.
> 
> http://pastebin.com/V6ug0uk4


 
you're right: i thought you'd fall for that


----------



## grit (Jul 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm perplexed about the appeal of football firms for the most part but even more so when it's anti-fash fighting alongside fash. The mind boggles.


 

The anti-fash/fash divide is just a mirror of the football firms. One uses politics the other football.

Modern day tribalism.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> you're right: i thought you'd fall for that


 
Skills.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 22, 2013)

more rubbish from those Malteser taster geezers! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/


----------



## Corax (Jul 22, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Ok...most people on here will know Im not a bigot but irony can get lost(hence the original)...I coughed it as OTT for that reason. So fuck context.....your point taken.


 
Fair play.  FTR I didn't mean to call you a bigot exactly, just that your post was.  We all post daft things sometimes.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 22, 2013)

grit said:


> The anti-fash/fash divide is just a mirror of the football firms. One uses politics the other football.
> 
> Modern day tribalism.


 

huh ?


----------



## laptop (Jul 22, 2013)

cantsin said:


> huh ?


 
I think the question is: does grit vote LibDem?


----------



## J Ed (Jul 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> News to nobody im sure.
> 
> http://pastebin.com/V6ug0uk4


 

TR may well be a tout but I very much doubt that this is real


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 22, 2013)

yeah we covered that bit already.


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 22, 2013)

Heres hoping the newest Royal freeloader is named Mohummad....would really fuck with the heads of EDLers


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 22, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Classy


 
That's been posted on the EDL news facebook. Most of the people commenting seem far more concerned about the state and colour of his teeth than the tattoo. And apparently it's 'self-righteous' to point out that it's really not his teeth people ought to have a problem with. But it's OK cos the comments on that page aren't as bad as the ones on the EDL page - so it seems antifascists judge themselves according to the standards the far right set themselves


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2013)

i didn't even notice his teeth. that tattoo is fucking disturbing.


----------



## treelover (Jul 23, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> i didn't even notice his teeth. that tattoo is fucking disturbing.


 

that some anti's did and made a point of mentioning their condition speaks volumes about them, their prejudices and their priorities


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2013)

treelover said:


> that some anti's did and made a point of mentioning their condition speaks volumes about them, their prejudices and their priorities


 
pathetic and shows they have no understanding of the far right and probably not much experience of the effects of racism.


----------



## albionism (Jul 23, 2013)

Toilet


----------



## albionism (Jul 23, 2013)

Muslim defenders going to the toilet!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2013)

ha ha, were you on the all night?
'dogs? going to the toilet?' 
nice way to start the day! cheers


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2013)

latest 'malatesta' on EDL made-up facts!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/the-edl-are-a-scab-outfit/


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> That's been posted on the EDL news facebook. Most of the people commenting seem far more concerned about the state and colour of his teeth than the tattoo. And apparently it's 'self-righteous' to point out that it's really not his teeth people ought to have a problem with. But it's OK cos the comments on that page aren't as bad as the ones on the EDL page - so it seems antifascists judge themselves according to the standards the far right set themselves


 
Now it's 'self-righteous' to point out that droning on about how polish immigrants are all hard working paragons of virtue and wouldn't be 'taking the jobs' if Brits weren't so lazy is a bit, well, racist and might push people into the hands of the far right.

These people are as much my enemy as the EDL are.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 23, 2013)

It's actually refreshing to see SpineyNorman come up against the same sort of ignorant and proud of it stupidity on the EDL News group as I have in the past. A decent number of the people there seem to think that members of the EDL are biologically determined to be an invariably evil racist Other. It helps to explain their benign view of Islamist extremists too, many of which they obviously see as noble savage caricatures.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2013)

that "expose the edl" and related facebook sites are such a load of fucking bollocks.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

Well, it's descended into a series of not very amusing or inventive insults thrown in my direction now. One of them claiming I was running away 'with my tail between my legs', followed by another saying 'on crutches' (after I'd said I had to give up my job after a serious injury - they don't know it wasn't my legs). Then another asking me if I was going to shout at buses. When I pointed out that 'jokes' about mental illness weren't funny they called me a hypocrite because I'd called one of them a fuckwit:



> He hurls insults like 'fuckwit' and 'small-minded' and 'ignoramus child' and then tries to mount his high horse when someone intimates that he may be a low-functioning human. Hypocritical arsehole.


 

Low functioning human? I've only heard that from eugenicists before.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 23, 2013)

It's really alienating, seeing that shit.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Well, it's descended into a series of not very amusing or inventive insults thrown in my direction now. One of them claiming I was running away 'with my tail between my legs', followed by another saying 'on crutches' (after I'd said I had to give up my job after a serious injury - they don't know it wasn't my legs). Then another asking me if I was going to shout at buses. When I pointed out that 'jokes' about mental illness weren't funny they called me a hypocrite because I'd called one of them a fuckwit:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That's certainly not what I'd expect from an "anti-fascist".


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

Is it wrong that I'd happily join a united front with the EDL against these cunts? (And I'm only half joking)


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 23, 2013)

where is the facebook group mate?


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 23, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Is it wrong that I'd happily join a united front with the EDL against these cunts? (And I'm only half joking)


This is exactly the point, the seething class hatred shown by these idiotic lets laugh at the EDL sites is disguisting.
Anti-Fascism as a position, not as a literal translation of the term, is not about thinking rascism is icky, or that fascists are all slack jawed idiots who need to laughed at, its not sentimental anti rasism, its not liberalism.... it is or at least should be about smashing an idology that cannot co-exist with our ideology, be that communism, anarchism, socialism etc.
Its not about fighting these cunts just for the sake of it, or because they make you "embarresed to be british" or whatever else these wankers think.

edit: the lp thread dont really have anything to do with this


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2013)

its quite obviously class hatred expressed under the socially acceptable veneer of being anti EDL


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> its quite obviously class hatred expressed under the socially acceptable veneer of being anti EDL


 
With this in mind, it's all the more worrying when you hear working class people object to the EDL in purely these terms, as idiots, chavs, embarassments "make me ashamed to be british" etc rather for than the genocidal hatred of muslims and racism the EDL stands for. I think that's quite a dangerous position because what happens one day when they _don't_ behave like animals at their demo's, and conduct themselves in a half respectable way?

And I'd turn that on it's head a bit and suggest what if class hatred is the only socially acceptable type of criticism of the EDL? That applies to working class people too, just as there's a great many working and lower middle class people who have reactionary attitudes on welfare or single mothers, even though they might (or used to) claim housing benefit, might rely on sure start centres and so on. The only socially acceptable attitude even for low income working people is to scapegoat scroungers, or immigrants, or some Other, just as the only socially acceptable way to attack the EDL is for being violent chavs and hooligans? I dunno maybe I have that all wrong it's just a thought.

The difference is that we have the Tory PR machine, well monied and class conscious, with the Daily Mail and co perpetuating the reactionary attitudes to welfare and making that sort of class hatred the acceptable discourse, but here we have so-called antifascists also using the same anti-wc attacks on their shitty facebook meme page and feeding this shit. It's a sign of how apolitical some anti-fascist young 'uns are that they're oblivious to this - unless they're deliberately milking this sort of thing because they're just pure dickheads.

I'm not one for giving much of a fuck about hurting the feelings of fascists and their ilk, and working class people have every right to take the piss out of them for the way they behave, I'm all for that, but the kind of dirty class hatred is Tory anti-fascism, it's not helpful at all. I'm an anti-fascist not an anti-racist Tory or Liberal, that means understanding how capitalism generates and feeds things like fascism and reactionary nationalism at times of big crisis, and how anti-working class bigotry that's just an implicit part of everyday life structurally alienates a good chunk of the working population and this is where fascists can make headway. Sorry for having a little ayatollah trot moment but it needs to be said.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 23, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> With this in mind, it's all the more worrying when you hear working class people object to the EDL in purely these terms, as idiots, chavs, embarassments "make me ashamed to be british" etc rather for than the genocidal hatred of muslims and racism the EDL stands for. I think that's quite a dangerous position because what happens one day when they _don't_ behave like animals at their demo's, and conduct themselves in a half respectable way?
> 
> And I'd turn that on it's head a bit and suggest what if class hatred is the only socially acceptable type of criticism of the EDL? That applies to working class people too, just as there's a great many working and lower middle class people who have reactionary attitudes on welfare or single mothers, even though they might (or used to) claim housing benefit, might rely on sure start centres and so on. The only socially acceptable attitude even for low income working people is to scapegoat scroungers, or immigrants, or some Other, just as the only socially acceptable way to attack the EDL is for being violent chavs and hooligans? I dunno maybe I have that all wrong it's just a thought.
> 
> ...


 
I do think UAF have to take (of course they wont) some responsibilty for the de-politicising of Anti-fascism, turning it into a moral position rather than a politcal one, but its obviously deeper than that, its just a further example of a weak and irrelevant left.

jaysus my spelling is fuckin terrible.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

It's actually impossible to have anything resembling a serious conversation with these pricks.

I'm starting a group called 'anti-EDLnews Action' - applying militant antifascist techniques to the fight against middle class elitists. Who's with me?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2013)

With a low-functioning human like you?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2013)

not defending anyone now right and i have picked up a few people on the sneering attitudes
but...
for example, what is wrong with laughing at the dickhead in the toilet video?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> With a low-functioning human like you?


 
I'm afraid so  but on the plus side we'll have really cool t shirts


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

ddraig said:


> not defending anyone now right and i have picked up a few people on the sneering attitudes
> but...
> for example, what is wrong with laughing at the dickhead in the toilet video?


 
Nothing.

But there is something wrong with droning on about how if unemployed brits would only take a leaf out of the hard working Poles' book and stop being so lazy and feckless they wouldn't be poor.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

Apparently national stereotypes aren't racist because race and nation aren't the same thing. Not sure what that makes the EDL, since race and faith sure as shit aren't the same thing but there you go.

I'm not looking at that thing any more, makes me too depressed and angry.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2013)

Why won't they work 60 hours for scumbags in shit conditions?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2013)

e2a to SN
well yeah, that is obviously shite
i thought the gripe was more with people calling them thick


----------



## J Ed (Jul 23, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why won't they work 60 hours for scumbags in shit conditions?


 

Biologically determined laziness, something that those plucky little Poles have avoided bless 'em!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

Point this out and you're a 'sanctimonious concern troll'. And if you respond in kind after trying for hours not to be provoked by a tirade of personal insults you get told 'what do you expect when you insult us'.

And of course since the rest of them are all middle class elitists with barely conceiled class (and racial) prejudices they get to say 'everyone thinks the problem is you so it must be'.

They're now on the list. Every one of them.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 23, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Point this out and you're a 'sanctimonious concern troll'. And if you respond in kind after trying for hours not to be provoked by a tirade of personal insults you get told 'what do you expect when you insult us'.
> 
> And of course since the rest of them are all middle class elitists with barely conceiled class (and racial) prejudices they get to say 'everyone thinks the problem is you so it must be'.
> 
> They're now on the list. Every one of them.


Why would you bother trying to argue? seems a bit masochistic.  For 99% of the posters this is the extent of their "anti-fascism",


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Why would you bother trying to argue? seems a bit masochistic. For 99% of the posters this is the extent of their "anti-fascism",


 
Well quite - I've given up now. It was naive of me to think I'd get anywhere.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 23, 2013)

Best quote from the 'anti-fascists' thus far, "If I feel like setting a Chav on fire I will. Nobodies going to tell me shit."


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 23, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Best quote from the 'anti-fascists' thus far, "If I feel like setting a Chav on fire I will. Nobodies going to tell me shit."


ALERTA! ALERTA! ANTICHAVISTA!


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2013)

Mal, and the other one who does an edl blog - you going to distance yourself from these people? If so, why? If not, why not?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

I think Fingers is, or was, involved in EDL news too. Be interesting to hear taffboy gwyrdd's views on this too but he doesn't come around these parts much any more.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 23, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Best quote from the 'anti-fascists' thus far, "If I feel like setting a Chav on fire I will. Nobodies going to tell me shit."


 

I was also threatened with being banned for asking whether it would be acceptable to write the same thing but replacing 'chav' with a racial slur, so that's me being banned for asking that rather than the actual person talking about setting 'chavs' on fire. Depressing.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

I've left the group of my own accord, wish they'd banned me cos then I'd have saved my blood pressure. Never going to get anywhere with them and frankly I've got enough stress in my life without letting those twats wind me up.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

I've just tried to log on to facebook and have been suspended for 12 hours. In response to someone telling me the reason why they persisted in insulting me was 'we don't suffer fools gladly' I said, 'your attitude towards Sam [one of the worst ones] suggests to me that you have quite a tolerance for fools'.

Apparently this warrants a 12 hour ban while people posting pictures of a young woman and saying they're going to rape her don't even get taken down.

Oh well, at least I must have got up the horrible cunts' noses.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 23, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:
			
		

> I've left the group of my own accord, wish they'd banned me cos then I'd have saved my blood pressure. Never going to get anywhere with them and frankly I've got enough stress in my life without letting those twats wind me up.



It's cunts like them that put the working class off left politics.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Mal, and the other one who does an edl blog - you going to distance yourself from these people? If so, why? If not, why not?


 

for the malatesta stuff, we gather information from lots of people from across the political spectrum - and that includes EDL, exEDL and BNP types. antifascism is always a broad front - from militant AFA style to mainstream journalism. i dont slag off other antifascists if they are doing what they feel able or willing to do but that does not mean i condone the anti-WC snobbery on some sites. all antifascists disagree depending on political bias but one of the interesting things is that EDL etc see all antifascists as 1 and the same and any perceived schism gives em a boost. i HATE arguing with people i MOSTLY agree with, especially on here where so many people have been so helpful (info for articles and stories for the book). so what if there are eejits on facebook talking rubbish, isnt that the point of facebook? 
can we try not descend into the usual 'cunts' and insults if you disagree.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2013)

A no then. Ta.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2013)

oh dear.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2013)

this demands more than a 1 word answer butchers.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 23, 2013)

Yeah


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 23, 2013)

Oh dear what? You were asked to do something and you couldn't. Fine. You're not a political operation.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2013)

good night.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 23, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> good night.


 
So you're completely unwilling to distance yourself from this foul, prejudiced crap?

Butchers is right - completely apolitical. The Italian ice cream man turns in his grave at the violence you do to his name.


----------



## albionism (Jul 24, 2013)

Just want to make clear, i was not having a pop at anyone's class or background
in those "toilet" re-mix videos i created, just having a laugh at the EDL not being
allowed the toilet.


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 24, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> for the malatesta stuff, we gather information from lots of people from across the political spectrum - and that includes EDL, exEDL and BNP types. antifascism is always a broad front - from militant AFA style to mainstream journalism. i dont slag off other antifascists if they are doing what they feel able or willing to do but that does not mean i condone the anti-WC snobbery on some sites. all antifascists disagree depending on political bias but one of the interesting things is that EDL etc see all antifascists as 1 and the same and any perceived schism gives em a boost. i HATE arguing with people i MOSTLY agree with, especially on here where so many people have been so helpful (info for articles and stories for the book). so what if there are eejits on facebook talking rubbish, isnt that the point of facebook?
> can we try not descend into the usual 'cunts' and insults if you disagree.


You mostly agree with this sort of stuff? It's hardly surprising, as a lot of it finds it way onto your site.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Mal, and the other one who does an edl blog - you going to distance yourself from these people? If so, why? If not, why not?


 

i gave you an explanation which does not suffice, if i gave you a 1 word answer that would not suffice either. as i wrote and which neither you or norman read: 'that does not mean i condone the anti-WC snobbery on some sites.'


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 24, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> So you're completely unwilling to distance yourself from this foul, prejudiced crap?
> 
> Butchers is right - completely apolitical. The Italian ice cream man turns in his grave at the violence you do to his name.


 

read it again. dont condone it, dont waste time slagging people off, and thanks for reducing all italians to ice cream vendors. my italian grandad was an engineer.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 24, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> You mostly agree with this sort of stuff? It's hardly surprising, as a lot of it finds it way onto your site.


 

i do not agree with it. show me one example where i back anti-working class prejudice. i slag EDL off for being drunken hooligans because of their beahviour which we have all witnesed countless times.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

albionism said:


> Just want to make clear, i was not having a pop at anyone's class or background
> in those "toilet" re-mix videos i created, just having a laugh at the EDL not being
> allowed the toilet.


 
It's not that kind of stuff we're talking about mate - your vids were funny as fuck


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> read it again. dont condone it, dont waste time slagging people off, and thanks for reducing all italians to ice cream vendors. my italian grandad was an engineer.


 
Thanks for trying to imply that I'm some kind of racist you ignorant prick. Errico Malatesta worked as an ice cream vendor when he was in London. I'd have thought you'd have known that. Usually before taking someone's name it's customary to know a bit about them:



> In London, Malatesta worked as an ice cream seller and a mechanic, and participated in the 1872 congress of the International, which gave birth to the Anarchist St. Imier International.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Errico_Malatesta

Your 'statement' was meally mouthed nonsense - you should be a Labour MP.

Their prejudices are every bit as bad as those of the EDL - worse in some cases - but you 'won't waste time slagging them off'. Figures.

You're one of them now.

Cunt.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 24, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Mal: can we try not descend into the usual 'cunts' and insults if you disagree.​
> Spiney Norman: Cunt.


 
well done, well argued.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2013)

He's right though - your brand of_ socially mobile anti-fascism_ is what allows nice prejudice to breed, it's apolitical parasitism that has as it's only base _at least we're not them._


----------



## albionism (Jul 24, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's not that kind of stuff we're talking about mate - your vids were funny as fuck


 
cheers. Yeah i get fucked off with the "chav" comments and such bollocks as well, being a working class anti-fash with a broad cockney accent myself.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2013)

albionism said:


> cheers. Yeah i get fucked off with the "chav" comments and such bollocks as well, being a working class anti-fash with a broad cockney accent myself.


 
How long you been down there now if you don't mind me asking? My uncle lived down there for less than two years and it destroyed his broad somerset accent.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> well done, well argued.


 
I know. That's why I called you a cunt.

I did also make arguments but you've chosen to cut those out haven't you?

So you're not only a weasling cunt who throws around false accusations of xenophobia - you're also a dishonest one.

Cunt.


----------



## albionism (Jul 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> How long you been down there now if you don't mind me asking? My uncle lived down there for less than two years and it destroyed his broad somerset accent.


 
What, Down Under? Nearly seven years and as cockney as ever!


----------



## cesare (Jul 24, 2013)

Are these comments just on the Facebook page? Is this anti-EDL group stand-alone or is there overlap with the antifascist network?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> read it again. dont condone it, dont waste time slagging people off, and thanks for reducing all italians to ice cream vendors. my italian grandad was an engineer.


when i was in sicily last year they had really top ice cream, something i would have been proud to be associated with. much nicer than what you get here. and you could get it in a brioche


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 24, 2013)

cesare said:


> Are these comments just on the Facebook page? Is this anti-EDL group stand-alone or is there overlap with the antifascist network?


ZERO overlap with the AFN, Nothing to do with them


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 24, 2013)

Anti-fascism involves taking an anti-classist position also. I don't really understand anti-fascism that isn't coming from class-based politics. Is it fashionable? They don't understand the reasons why some of the white working class join the EDL etc. it isn't because they have a shit dentist.


----------



## krink (Jul 24, 2013)

albionism said:


> being a working class anti-fash with a broad cockney accent myself.


 
in my world view this is every cockney ever.


----------



## krink (Jul 24, 2013)

or maybe this


----------



## tony.c (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm bald, have a paunch and bad teeth. But I don't think I'm in some way superior to others like the racists do, so I don't see anything wrong in taking the piss out of them pointing out they are not the superior master race specimens they think they are.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2013)

You are a racist who has bad teeth so easily becomes you have bad teeth, you're a fascist (without even getting into the politics of collective provision of healthcare). Look at the responses norm got for how easily it slides. You can be all sorts of right wing slime as long as you're not racist it seems.


----------



## krink (Jul 24, 2013)

don't forget, these facebook pages are also where any millitant anti-fascist is as bad as _them_.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> You are a racist who has bad teeth so easily becomes you have bad teeth, you're a fascist (without even getting into the politics of collective provision of healthcare). Look at the responses norm got for how easily it slides. You can be all sorts of right wing slime as long as you're not racist it seems.


 
Was once pointed out as known BNP at a UAF/RMT rally I was asked to help steward, this despite being less than 6 months in the country, when the person who pointed me (and a few other lads out) was confronted, we were told we were shaved headed, white, working class lads with tattoos we should expect to be mistaken for fash.

If I read the above, before I moved over here, I wouldnt have believed it, but it happened, Im sure plenty of people have similar stories.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 24, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Anti-fascism involves taking an anti-classist position also. I don't really understand anti-fascism that isn't coming from class-based politics. Is it fashionable? They don't understand the reasons why some of the white working class join the EDL etc. it isn't because they have a shit dentist.


 

The EDL are bad cos they make me feel ashamed to be British, if the EDL had it their way you couldn't see Peruvian flute bands etc


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2013)

krink said:


> or maybe this


----------



## albionism (Jul 24, 2013)

Indeed mate. I have often been mistaken for/presumed to be fash because of my shaved head
(i shave it 'cos i'm balding, but nether the less), my penchant for button down collar shirts and cockney accent.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

cesare said:


> Are these comments just on the Facebook page? Is this anti-EDL group stand-alone or is there overlap with the antifascist network?


 
It's the facebook group for the EDL news site. The site itself shows similar prejudices at times too just not quite as naked as what I saw yesterday.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 24, 2013)

I would like to defend Mal here as well, I do take issue with some of the content on the Malatesta blog, but alot of it, especially the Facebook screengrabs etc, does go along way to smashing the "we're not racist, just concerned about militant Islam" veneer the EDL have tried to portray. I think this is very important work. Im not sure what else Mal is involved in, I do think the EDL news site, while having good content for Twitter/FB screengrabs, probably does more damage than good in its editorial attitudes.
Ive said this a few times before, but I think every antifascist group should think carefully about what they publish, and think to them selves, would this artical make someone on the fringes of the EDL, more or less likely to get involved?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I'm bald, have a paunch and bad teeth. But I don't think I'm in some way superior to others like the racists do, so I don't see anything wrong in taking the piss out of them pointing out they are not the superior master race specimens they think they are.


 
How do you think it looks to people who are tempted by the EDL but haven't decided yet - the kind of soft support we need to appeal to? When they see them being more concerned by bad teeth etc than a racist tattoo of a mosque being blown up? If they have bad teeth too - I know it pissed me off and made me think I have no common cause with these people - so I imagine the effect on people who aren't already committed antifascists is even worse.

And Malatesta won't distance himself from this scum. Very telling IMO


----------



## J Ed (Jul 24, 2013)

Example of what Spiney is talking about from today:

Comedian gets stupid comment from an EDLer







Responds with bizarre comment affirming his sense of class superiority:




			
				Jason Manford said:
			
		

> Well I very much doubt a suicide bomber would've payed to sit in first class dear boy. Would be a complete waste of the Al Qaeda petty cash. Also it's the quiet carriage so I doubt the old woman sat opposite would put up with it.


 
Some (totally unchallenged) responses from 'EDL News':




			
				edl news said:
			
		

> *Joanne Love*Hahaha!!! I love the response!!!
> *Francis 'Jesus' Thomas*Well I sort of agree Paul, but it's the EDL he's talking to; Tesco is like Harrods to them.
> *Warren Lloyd* I'm very ashamed to say that EDL do shop at Tesco, every other Tuesday afternoon is know to the staff as Giro Tuesday. In they come for ready meals, pork products and cheep cider.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 24, 2013)

Not convinced that 'the' racists do see themselves as someway superior. Aside from the handful of white racial nationalist most of this anti muslim stuff is based on a combination of 'they get treated differently/better to u and they are a threat to us security/cultural wise '.  For a lot of people its the fear they they themselves are behing left behind in society and a feeling of hoplessnes in which they then blame the 'pakis/muzzis'. Anyone who followed how the BNP did well in Burnley several years ago will see how they contrasted the former glories of the town with its ailing present and how white people were victims of economic decline , globalisation and government policy.

 Reminding them that they are wearing ill fitting suits, are not educated to degree level, have 'pasty' faces, bad dentistry, etc does nothing to get them to change their views whatsoever or to empower  them to fight the real culprits about why they have been left behind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I'm bald, have a paunch and bad teeth


i used to think a meet of people off this thread would be a good idea. now i'm not so sure as i think most of us would look the same


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> I would like to defend Mal here as well, I do take issue with some of the content on the Malatesta blog, but alot of it, especially the Facebook screengrabs etc, does go along way to smashing the "we're not racist, just concerned about militant Islam" veneer the EDL have tried to portray. I think this is very important work. Im not sure what else Mal is involved in, I do think the EDL news site, while having good content for Twitter/FB screengrabs, probably does more damage than good in its editorial attitudes.
> Ive said this a few times before, but I think every antifascist group should think carefully about what they publish, and think to them selves, would this artical make someone on the fringes of the EDL, more or less likely to get involved?


 
My problem with him is that he's not prepared to distance himself from these scumbags or condemn them in any way - his relationship with them is more important than what ought to be the most basic of principles. Nevermind that their class prejudices means they're not antifascists in any meaningful sense.

And his attempt to paint me as xenophobic when I made reference to Malatesta's work as an ice cream vendor. He should meet up with Laurie Penny, I think they'd get on.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2013)

*Applauds norms slow move towards anarchism*


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> *Applauds norms slow move towards anarchism*


 
I thought Malatesta was already an anarchist?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> *Applauds norms slow move towards anarchism*


 
 not quite - been enjoying reading a bit of autonomist stuff recently though.


----------



## krink (Jul 24, 2013)

is there _anyone_ who posts on this thread who isn't bald(ing), missing teeth, not-exactly-thin??

[apart from frogwoman, obv]


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2013)

krink said:


> is there _anyone_ who posts on this thread who isn't bald(ing), missing teeth, not-exactly-thin??
> 
> [apart from frogwoman, obv]


 
I've got all gnashers I was born with (til next week  ), I'm whip thin and still boast a full head of hair. I do favour trainers, shirts and hats though. Not england ones though


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

krink said:


> is there _anyone_ who posts on this thread who isn't bald(ing), missing teeth, not-exactly-thin??
> 
> [apart from frogwoman, obv]


 
I fit that description except although I have no hair technically I'm not balding cos I shave it all off


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 24, 2013)

krink said:


> is there _anyone_ who posts on this thread who isn't bald(ing), missing teeth, not-exactly-thin??
> 
> [apart from frogwoman, obv]


 
i still have hair.  slightly larger forehead than i used to have, mind...


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got all gnashers I was born with (til next week  ), I'm whip thin and still boast a full head of hair. I do favour trainers, shirts and hats though. Not england ones though


 
right, you're off this thread.  come back when you've had those teeth out...


----------



## JimW (Jul 24, 2013)

krink said:


> is there _anyone_ who posts on this thread who isn't bald(ing), missing teeth, not-exactly-thin??
> 
> [apart from frogwoman, obv]


 
I'm got a full head of hair and all me own teeth but one's very twisted in classic "British smiles" style. Thin too.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 24, 2013)

i've got dodgy teeth a beer belly and thinking of shaving head again


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2013)

a typical 'edl watch' poster recently


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

So is there anyone on this thread who UAF haven't mistaken for EDL?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

I'm of fairly average build but with quite an impressive beer gut - does that count as fat enough to be EDL? The gut has been in decline for the last couple of months as I've been doing physical work again - need to drink more or I risk losing it for ever


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> So is there anyone on this thread who UAF haven't mistaken for EDL?


*raises hand *


----------



## JimW (Jul 24, 2013)

I've been out the country since before the EDL emerged, but I'm such a nice boy surely wouldn't anyway.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2013)

ddraig said:


> i've got dodgy teeth a beer belly and thinking of shaving head again


 
If you call that a beer belly, what the fuck is mine


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 24, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> *raises hand *


 
Fucking liberal


----------



## ddraig (Jul 24, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> If you call that a beer belly, what the fuck is mine


 
grown again bra! been working from home so no cycle commute
and guess more of a cider belly these days n all


----------



## krink (Jul 24, 2013)

ddraig said:


> grown again bra! been working from home so no cycle commute
> and guess more of a cider belly these days n all


 
talking of cider has reminded me - I also drink in weatherspoons so probs EDL innit?
(there was a lovely cider festival in there this month - I'm still feeling rough off Friday night on the 8% stuff )


----------



## ddraig (Jul 24, 2013)

must be! bang to rights 
i went to one the other day too! on my own


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 24, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> If you call that a beer belly, what the fuck is mine



The third trimester?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 24, 2013)

ooooooooooooooh!


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 24, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> The third trimester?


 
Got too much hair and all my teeth, however they are full of holes thanks to early 90's rave culture.


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 24, 2013)

Was accused of being fash by an aslef swp contact, many years back when iwas still in yorkshire and in the swp, apparently when this fellow was contacted by swp industrial office he said he wouldn't have anything to do with me as he had been told I was mixing with fash by an aslef regional organiser. I think i was caught up into a dirty tricks campaign by opponents of mick rix, who I was close to through Leeds aslef.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2013)

krink said:


> talking of cider has reminded me - I also drink in weatherspoons so probs EDL innit?
> (there was a lovely cider festival in there this month - I'm still feeling rough off Friday night on the 8% stuff )


you drink stuff that's 92% WATER? 

for shame!


----------



## Sue (Jul 25, 2013)

krink said:


> is there _anyone_ who posts on this thread who isn't bald(ing), missing teeth, not-exactly-thin??
> 
> [apart from frogwoman, obv]



Check your privilege...


----------



## tony.c (Jul 25, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> although I have no hair technically I'm not balding cos I shave it all off


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 25, 2013)

Well, I've just been suspended from facebook for 12 hours for the third day running for a comment on EDL news.

(This time it was: 'You don't need a sense of humour bypass to not laugh at things that aren't funny. And if you're an employer you're not working class Anne, it's really very simple')

I suspect they're going to keep doing it until my account is banned completely and as I can't remove my comments because I am no longer a member of the group there is nothing I can do about it. They are lying about me, saying I got people suspended when I didn't, and denying they did it to me when I know they must have. I think they're doing a mass reporting campaign on me, as they do with the EDL. I guess because since I'm not a middle class elitist eugenicist I'm in the same category as the dirty EDL chavs.

Fucking scum, I want nothing to do with them or their fucking page, I've enough stress in my life as it is, but they're making that impossible too.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

I'm thinking about doing a blog post about this sort of "anti-fascism" that isn't really anti-fascism at all. Delroy Booth you were going on about Tory anti-fascists and stuff. Do you have anything to suggest that I could read?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 25, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I'm thinking about doing a blog post about this sort of "anti-fascism" that isn't really anti-fascism at all. Delroy Booth you were going on about Tory anti-fascists and stuff. Do you have anything to suggest that I could read?


 
Not really no, but I'll have a proper look through my bookmarks see if there is anything. I just thought it was a useful phrase to describe the sort of reactionary bullshit you get in online antifascist circles. The Tory line is "there's nothing British about the BNP" which is a really counter-productive because it suggests that the problem with the BNP is that it's too foreign, not patriotic enough, not that it's xenophobic or racist or fascist etc. Using reactionary nationalism to attack other kinds of reactionary nationalism, which, ultimately strengthens reactionary nationalism, which is fine by the Tories because they're the primary electoral beneficiaries of that kind of thing.

The fact EDL news uses this sort of rhetoric is shows either how politically naive they are, or how politically aware and right-wing they are, depending on your charitableness about their intentions.


----------



## FNG (Jul 25, 2013)

I was musing over the fact UAF is officially endorsed by David Cameron which may well encourage a particular Bullington set tory an excuse to indulge themselves in a bit of social downward punching/class baiting


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2013)

in a massive paranoid fit last night I mentioned to frog that theres a possibility of clever fash stirring the pot and so encouraging the class hatred to flourish as a sort of false flag- 'look at them they don't care what you believe, they hate you cos you aren't grateful to be poor and run by sharia lol'

on reflection though thats more than likely rampant paranoia and the simplest explanation is that they are vacuos m/c twats whose only experience of the w/c is when they come to fix the boiler or serve them dinner


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 25, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> in a massive paranoid fit last night I mentioned to frog that theres a possibility of clever fash stirring the pot and so encouraging the class hatred to flourish as a sort of false flag- 'look at them they don't care what you believe, they hate you cos you aren't grateful to be poor and run by sharia lol'


 
I don't think that's paranoid at all.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 25, 2013)

Weirdly the Nothing British about the BNP website has been taken over by what looks to be some sort of cutesy Japanese language website. You can see an archive of it here, they decided to take it down because obviously the threat of the far-right is no longer existent.

It was run by the people who run the Conservative Home website.

Right-wing anti-fascism usually seems to be an appeal to a fusion of patriotism (with particular emphasis on pride in Churchill and Britain's role in WW2, etc) with neoliberal economics. Right-wing anti-fascists claim that groups like the BNP are unpatriotic partly because they are ostensibly against unimpeded neoliberalism which they associate with being anti-immigration and anti-immigrant.

Check this out http://web.archive.org/web/20130129...british.com/resources/NBmanifestoresponse.pdf



> No hard choices on spending. The BNP’s lazy populism is nowhere seen more clearly
> than in their lazy attitude towards tax and spend. While other parties are forced to make
> difficult choices about their priorities in the face of Britain’s record deficit, the BNP likes
> to pretend that the only cuts are those already popular: benefits to ‘scroungers’ and
> ‘foreigners’, waste, and spending on the EU and global warming.


 


> Their protectionist economics. While a core BNP belief remains that Britain needs system of
> tariffs to protect and return Britain to its manufacturing past, they remain wary of spelling
> out the consequences to the shopping bills of ordinary families. The BNP are deliberately
> vague over the details, are keen to emphasise that tariffs will be used selectively and
> ...


 


> The BNP have attempted to hide the effects the policies would have on ordinary voters,
> claiming that they can deliver tax cuts without corresponding raises or spending cuts
> elsewhere. This is simply not credible. The BNP’s plans would reverse the benefits
> globalisation has brought, limiting trade and attacking supermarkets, increase the cost of the
> ...


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

It's not paranoid at all mate!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> I don't think that's paranoid at all.


 

maybe, it just occured to me. I'm wary of seeing the dread hand of the hidden menace in everything though. Despite how often reality proves it to be weirder than my speculations- but its normally the state playing those sorts of long games.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 25, 2013)

You want a really good example of right-wing antifascism this is the best. One of Jerry Springer's regular shows with the KKK featured Larry Jones, a black right-wing talk radio host in Texas, arguing that capitalism is the only way to beat racism. Listen to this exchange and weep.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> maybe, it just occured to me. I'm wary of seeing the dread hand of the hidden menace in everything though. Despite how often reality proves it to be weirder than my speculations- but its normally the state playing those sorts of long games.


 

Well I did see a thread on SF years and years ago where a scumfront moderator pretended to be Jewish to a group of Jehovah's Witnesses that knocked on their door and behaved like an abusive arsehole towards them, "so they could see for themselves what the jews were really like". The other nazis thought that what he'd done was great.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

Apparently there are lots of ageing nazis writing letters to the Telegraph etc pretending to be jewish racists


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> Apparently there are lots of ageing nazis writing letters to the Telegraph etc pretending to be jewish racists


 

for the love of god  

its just indicative of the lows they will stoop to I suppose. Like homosexual blackmail stings for money/complicity in weimar germany by the nascent ndsap. Gutter politics.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

It wouldn't surprise me if some of them were fash trolls given past form. I mean quite a high proportion of scumfront is supposed to be either state or anti-fash pretending to be fash. (though i don't know how they prove this  )


----------



## J Ed (Jul 25, 2013)

In any case, frogwoman I suspect that the people we're discussing from the EDL News group would not consider themselves to be right-wing at all. The fact that people can consider themselves, and be considered, leftists while complaining that anti-immigration legislation would mean that they could no longer rely on plucky hard working Poles rather than lazy working-class Brits is another more perplexing problem really.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2013)

probably gone a bit hyberpole here but fuck it



> Anti-fascism coming from the working classes who would be on the end of the jackboot has proud tradition. From Cable street to the unreported and unremembered battle for the streets of the last few decades it has been by 'fist, stones, batons and the gun' that these people were shown the door.
> Then kicked through it.
> 
> So it is with a heavy heart that that I see so-called antifa types engaging in the grossest class prejudice when referring to the EDL. Beer guts, drunkenness (I fucking drink on a march, fosters to keep a clear head but how else are you going to deal with speeches by union leaders and labourite liars? sober? no) , rowdiness and bad tattoos and teeth. Yeah well we didn't all get daddies BUPA care mate.
> ...


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

Well surely the irony of using physical appearances and phrases which could have been lifted straight from the Nazi era to describe people "low functioning humans" anyone and commenting on the size of peoples breasts etc - would not be lost on them? Or are they really that thick?


----------



## smokedout (Jul 25, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Be interesting to hear taffboy gwyrdd's views on this too


 
now that's not something you read everyday 



sorry, goes back to reading thread


----------



## weepiper (Jul 25, 2013)

For reasons best known to themselves Edinburgh City Council have decided to grant the SDL permission to march down the Royal Mile in the middle of the Festival. They've previously refused them so they've had to be satisfied with static demos. Fuck knows why they've granted permission for this. Some people I know who live in a council flat on the lower section of the Royal Mile are raging about it.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...h-through-edinburgh-during-festival-1-3013069


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 25, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Was accused of being fash by an aslef swp contact, many years back when iwas still in yorkshire and in the swp, apparently when this fellow was contacted by swp industrial office he said he wouldn't have anything to do with me as he had been told I was mixing with fash by an aslef regional organiser. I think i was caught up into a dirty tricks campaign by opponents of mick rix, who I was close to through Leeds aslef.


 

At least you stepped up to the plate..


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 25, 2013)

http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/art...xpose-south-shields-edl-thug-with-mosque-boom

*EXCLUSIVE: We Expose South Shields EDL Thug With Mosque 'BOOM!' Tattoo*


----------



## JimW (Jul 25, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> At least you stepped up to the plate..


 
Never afraid to go steaming on in, was Barney.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

http://disillusionedmarxist.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/if-this-is-anti-fascism-i-am-no-anti-fascist/


----------



## tony.c (Jul 25, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://tyneandwear.sky.com/news/art...xpose-south-shields-edl-thug-with-mosque-boom
> 
> *EXCLUSIVE: We Expose South Shields EDL Thug With Mosque 'BOOM!' Tattoo*


He admits it was stupid. Now I feel sorry for him.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

really glad people like that piece btw, DotCommunist helped me write some of it too 

 

am happy people like reading my stuff though.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 25, 2013)

Another point that *really* bothers me about EDL News, SlatEDL and SlatUKIP is their constant cheerleading for the European Union. They use the typical cunt's trick of Europhile neoliberals of conflating criticism of Brussels' authoritarian neoliberalism with xenophobia and racism as if objections to Brussels' undemocratic impositions of austerity are actually a manifestation of some sort of deep seated hatred of forrins.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Another point that *really* bothers me about EDL News, SlatEDL and SlatUKIP is their constant cheerleading for the European Union. They use the typical cunt's trick of Europhile neoliberals of conflating criticism of Brussels' authoritarian neoliberalism with xenophobia and racism as if objections to Brussels' undemocratic impositions of austerity are actually a manifestation of some sort of deep seated hatred of forrins.


 

shit yeah, forgot to mention that on the blog. can you think of any examples? i might do an edit tomorrow or do like a follow up at some point


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Another point that *really* bothers me about EDL News, SlatEDL and SlatUKIP is their constant cheerleading for the European Union. They use the typical cunt's trick of Europhile neoliberals of conflating criticism of Brussels' authoritarian neoliberalism with xenophobia and racism as if objections to Brussels' undemocratic impositions of austerity are actually a manifestation of some sort of deep seated hatred of forrins.


 

'I'm deeply concerned about the way voting in euro elections works, in that by giving minority fringe r/w parties seats it simultaneously opens up huge revenue streams for what in real terms are relatively picayune groups'

'hahhahaa you think Brussels demands straighter bananas and you hate bulgaria'


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

if anyone can think of any improvements/stuff that's plain wrong in that piece let me know btw.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 25, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> shit yeah, forgot to mention that on the blog. can you think of any examples? i might do an edit tomorrow or do like a follow up at some point


 

A lot of posts on here are like that, though their old page got taken down, most recent one is a news story about the Australian government telling the UK not to leave the EU.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 25, 2013)

J Ed said:


> A lot of posts on here are like that, though their old page got taken down, most recent one is a news story about the Australian government telling the UK not to leave the EU.


 

that is stupid beyond belief


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 25, 2013)

This comment was under a post about Kev Carrol appealing to Farrage for talks:



> Even Farage isn't that stupid, surely?


 
I know it's just an off the cuff remark but I find it to be telling. It's an attitude you often find with these kinds of liberal anti-racists - Griffin, Farrage, etc are all stupid. Huge mistake IMO. He's a very talented politician, who like Boris uses an affected clown like image because they know it has appeal.

And if an idiot can lead a party like UKIP to the kinds of results they've been getting recently then I think I'm gonna start suggesting they get an idiot to lead TUSC.

Am I reading too much into it, or does this flow directly from their particular brand of opposition to the far right? You know, they're all low-functioning humans, 'at least we're not like them.' And so it fits their prejudices to think he's the same? Don't know if I'm explaining this very well tbh


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 25, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Another point that *really* bothers me about EDL News, SlatEDL and SlatUKIP is their constant cheerleading for the European Union. They use the typical cunt's trick of Europhile neoliberals of conflating criticism of Brussels' authoritarian neoliberalism with xenophobia and racism as if objections to Brussels' undemocratic impositions of austerity are actually a manifestation of some sort of deep seated hatred of forrins.


Posted this before both is useful
http://www.borderland.co.uk/index.php/21-the-secret-state/126-ukip-smears-who-s-behind-them.html


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> This comment was under a post about Kev Carrol appealing to Farrage for talks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

fuck knows but I would pay cash money to see a debate between kokain kev and the unfortunate survivor of an air crash


He's also nicked the homburg. Now we can never again wear a homburg except ironically


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2013)

Fuck me 304 views on my latest blog post


----------



## J Ed (Jul 26, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Posted this before both is useful
> http://www.borderland.co.uk/index.php/21-the-secret-state/126-ukip-smears-who-s-behind-them.html


 

Really interesting. What's the general consensus as to how reliable this magazine is BTW?


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 26, 2013)

Both larry and paul occasionally post here. Except for Larrys unfortunate insistence in people paying for his magazine rather than reading it online for free, everything I have read in nftb has been pretty sound,


----------



## J Ed (Jul 26, 2013)

So this might seem like a stupid question but how would someone go about getting an article like frogwoman's or Stop Laughing at the EDL in the Graunid or the Indie or some other paper? Is that sort of thing even possible?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2013)

J Ed said:


> So this might seem like a stupid question but how would someone go about getting an article like frogwoman's or Stop Laughing at the EDL in the Graunid or the Indie or some other paper? Is that sort of thing even possible?


 

why would they even bother publishing something like that inamongst adverts for 60 quid kitchen widgets? It's not their field is it. You'd have greater luck taking out a full page advert of a crudely drawn spunking cock.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 26, 2013)

J Ed said:


> So this might seem like a stupid question but how would someone go about getting an article like frogwoman's or Stop Laughing at the EDL in the Graunid or the Indie or some other paper? Is that sort of thing even possible?


Without connections probably not, I guess it could be sent in as a letter if an appropriate article turns up to relate it to.


----------



## Nice one (Jul 26, 2013)

J Ed said:


> So this might seem like a stupid question but how would someone go about getting an article like frogwoman's or Stop Laughing at the EDL in the Graunid or the Indie or some other paper? Is that sort of thing even possible?


 
try the comment is free section. Editor natalie hanman: natalie.hanman@guardian.co.uk


----------



## treelover (Jul 26, 2013)

it would have to be erm, less forceful...


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2013)

oh jesus wept if anyone is on twitter look at the exchange I am having


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## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2013)

Classist? Err.. and what social class do you bracket Muslims into? EDL are wrong but should be allowed to protest/march etc. 
really? 

REALLY?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 26, 2013)

Still Laughing at the EDL was the one that was fighting fascism with sexism.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2013)

does anyone fancy having a go at these idiots? i've got other things to do than being on twitter and i actually can't believe the level of idiocy here.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jul 26, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> does anyone fancy having a go at these idiots? i've got other things to do than being on twitter and i actually can't believe the level of idiocy here.


 
Where are you on twitter frogwoman


----------



## rekil (Jul 26, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> if anyone can think of any improvements/stuff that's plain wrong in that piece let me know btw.


 
Some more tags wouldn't hurt.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 26, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Another point that *really* bothers me about EDL News, SlatEDL and SlatUKIP is their constant cheerleading for the European Union. They use the typical cunt's trick of Europhile neoliberals of conflating criticism of Brussels' authoritarian neoliberalism with xenophobia and racism as if objections to Brussels' undemocratic impositions of austerity are actually a manifestation of some sort of deep seated hatred of forrins.


 

Funnily enough, in all my time partaking of those places I don't recall any EU cheerleading. Just saying.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 26, 2013)

When PG Wodehouse satarised fascism via Rodney Spode, part of the aristo set, was that thinly veiled class prejudice?

No. It was prejudice against stupid narrow minded bigotry. Satire has had a strong grounding in all political spheres for thousands of years. Class is not the issue. Stupidity and bigotry are.

Any assumption of a causal link between bigotry/stupidity and class would be highly dubious. No need to project that assumption onto others. 

The EDL have attacked unions and Occupys. They are the class enemy.

Again, just saying.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 26, 2013)

Satire? This drivel you write and that these people post in their comments -you think that's satire? You're an idiot.

P.g Wodehouse was put up in a posh hotel during the war by_ the real nazis_ btw in return for broadcasting for them.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 26, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Satire? This drivel you write and that these people post in their comments -you think that's satire? You're an idiot.


 
That's his nonsense? I saw it bandied about a bit on EDL News, not good.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2013)

that isn't funny at all and reads a bit like he's taking the piss out of people with learning difficulties.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2013)

nice use of eye-offending colours as well. Is that supposed to be...is it...I dunno


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2013)

> once more helo patriots who love england for ever!!





> this peice is about a big thing i learned early too make other ENGLISH people WAKE UP and be patriot to!
> 
> try not to say open about race theese days people think your so called “racist” if you do
> 
> ...


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2013)

> so working class dont matter that much and realy is boring things like evil marx and trade unions that we hate but I think someone said its called tool of returic
> some one out of history divison said things like all this had helped get power in past like about 80 years ago but that was lot of detale on names and my logic division work and bits of the ology divison are maybe to much even for my brane by them selfs without all thoose dates names ect
> also if you say white working class people will think oh good not like midle class people who look down nose at acents or if you dont know about bits of a simfony or diferent wine or some thing




Genius.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 26, 2013)

What is this supposed to mean? 



> some egs on way off life
> - do rubish job you hate or no job and no money
> - crap wether most of time
> - town looks grey and concreet evrywhere
> ...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 26, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> When PG Wodehouse satarised fascism via Rodney Spode, part of the aristo set, was that thinly veiled class prejudice?
> 
> No. It was prejudice against stupid narrow minded bigotry. Satire has had a strong grounding in all political spheres for thousands of years. Class is not the issue. Stupidity and bigotry are.
> 
> ...


 
You're a fucking idiot. There's really nothing more to say.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 26, 2013)

I can't see anything on EDL news any more but someone on my feed has just posted to their group, giving them the heads up that their twatter account is putting out spam (looks like a spammer has hacked them - great security there!).

Here's his post:



> *The EDL News Extra twitter account is putting out spam tweets.
> EDLNewsXtra @EDLNewsXtra 3m
> 
> Cut 2+ inches off your waist and shed up to 20 lbs of body fat in less than 30 days with http://tinyurl.com/ogzn8up
> Details*


 
So far there is one comment:



> Joanne LoveMaybe it's aimed at the angles of the EDL
> 6 hours ago · 3 likes


 
As you were...


----------



## Superdupastupor (Jul 26, 2013)

weepiper said:


> For reasons best known to themselves Edinburgh City Council have decided to grant the SDL permission to march down the Royal Mile in the middle of the Festival. They've previously refused them so they've had to be satisfied with static demos. Fuck knows why they've granted permission for this. Some people I know who live in a council flat on the lower section of the Royal Mile are raging about it.
> 
> http://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...h-through-edinburgh-during-festival-1-3013069


 

fuck that


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

It's not even funny. 

The 'satire' I mean.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 27, 2013)

> _some egs on way off life_
> _- do rubish job you hate or no job and no money_
> _- crap wether most of time_
> _- town looks grey and concreet evrywhere_
> ...


 
You're a massive twat, taffboy.

You're my enemy.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 27, 2013)

so croydon, woolwich or glasgow? who is going to go and tell everyone how to 'do antifascism' properly?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

It's just revealing about the author's views of how he thinks the working class view the world and how they would express it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> who is going to go and tell everyone how to 'do antifascism' properly?



You mean politically rather than class prejudice dressed up as anti-racism?


----------



## cesare (Jul 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Satire? This drivel you write and that these people post in their comments -you think that's satire? You're an idiot.
> 
> P.g Wodehouse was put up in a posh hotel during the war by_ the real nazis_ btw in return for broadcasting for them.


Taffboy wrote that?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2013)

cesare said:


> Taffboy wrote that?


 
Yep, and he does a similarly bad one for UKIP as well.


----------



## cesare (Jul 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Yep, and he does a similarly bad one for UKIP as well.


Fuck's sake


----------



## cesare (Jul 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> so croydon, woolwich or glasgow? who is going to go and tell everyone how to 'do antifascism' properly?


I'm not sure you've got the geography clear about the first two.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 27, 2013)

cesare said:


> I'm not sure you've got the geography clear about the first two.


 

straight from the horses arse: 
http://evfnewsandblog.weebly.com/2/...er-force-gearing-up-for-2-demos-tommorow.html


Citizen66 said:


> You mean politically rather than class prejudice dressed up as anti-racism?


 
thats not really an answer is it.


----------



## cesare (Jul 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> straight from the horses arse:
> http://evfnewsandblog.weebly.com/2/...er-force-gearing-up-for-2-demos-tommorow.html
> 
> thats not really an answer is it.


My point is that they're joined up.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> thats not really an answer is it.



What useful function does all the classist and sexist bollocks serve for the anti-fascist cause other than making people who *might* be attracted to groups like the EDL but may also be argued out of it becoming convinced that anti-fascists are middle class pricks that they have nothing in common with?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

The EDL were confronted in Boro recently when they planned on picking off 'UAF' who would be attending a HnH meeting which subsequently got cancelled. The report I got back was that they seemed confused and didn't know who to blame. Imagine if the drips of EDLNews approached them banging on about the state of their teeth and spelling abilities. But there's the rub. You won't get people like Taffboy approaching the EDL and attempting dialogue. It's just snidey classist crap from the safety of his suburban semi.


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Jul 27, 2013)

J Ed said:


> So this might seem like a stupid question but how would someone go about getting an article like frogwoman's or Stop Laughing at the EDL in the Graunid or the Indie or some other paper? Is that sort of thing even possible?


 
So whose going to pull HnH for refering to a cypriot EDL'er as Stavros. It's hypocritical to use racial stereotyping whilst campaigning against, errr racial stereotyping in my book. And to attack them for being "thick" is as equally offensive. The reason they attend or support EDL events is because they need educating, not attacked for their lack of it. Smug know-it-all "lefties" who like to impose their intellect on their lessers is not the fundamental base of working class ideology that i would align to.  Ironically i will probably get shouted down on here now by people using long words that i do not understand the meaning of. Poor old working class scum that iam.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 27, 2013)




----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> So whose going to pull HnH for refering to a cypriot EDL'er as Stavros.



I don't think you'll find many HnH fans on here.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> So whose going to pull HnH for refering to a cypriot EDL'er as Stavros. It's hypocritical to use racial stereotyping whilst campaigning against, errr racial stereotyping in my book. And to attack them for being "thick" is as equally offensive. The reason they attend or support EDL events is because they need educating, not attacked for their lack of it. Smug know-it-all "lefties" who like to impose their intellect on their lessers is not the fundamental base of working class ideology that i would align to. Ironically i will probably get shouted down on here now by people using long words that i do not understand the meaning of. Poor old working class scum that iam.


 
Have a read of the thread Jeremy. You'll find that most of us do oppose the kind of stuff you're complaining about here and have been quite vociferous in our opposition.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 27, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> What useful function does all the classist and sexist bollocks serve for the anti-fascist cause other than making people who *might* be attracted to groups like the EDL but may also be argued out of it becoming convinced that anti-fascists are middle class pricks that they have nothing in common with?


 

none. i do not slag people off for the class background but for their actions. read the blog.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 27, 2013)

cesare said:


> My point is that they're joined up.


 

i know they have. but some are turning up for croydon and some are meeting them at woolwich. either way there will be a fuck all display of antifasicm from U75 as usual.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 27, 2013)

useful? 
http://twitpic.com/photos/StopEVF


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Jul 27, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Have a read of the thread Jeremy. You'll find that most of us do oppose the kind of stuff you're complaining about here and have been quite vociferous in our opposition.


 
Ok mate fair do's. Im a late comer on here and not read everything. I just find the double standards appalling at times


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i know they have. but some are turning up for croydon and some are meeting them at woolwich. either way there will be a fuck all display of antifasicm from U75 as usual.


Not everyone can afford to go swanning across the country every time the EDL have a demo.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Ok mate fair do's. Im a late comer on here and not read everything. I just find the double standards appalling at times


 

for the last two pages we have been discussing the class prejudice displayed by some so called antifa websites


----------



## ddraig (Jul 27, 2013)

some examples of it here
https://twitter.com/search?q=#asktommyrobinson&src=hash


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## Jeremy Vile (Jul 27, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> for the last two pages we have been discussing the class prejudice displayed by some so called antifa websites


 
Yes i fucking know that, hence my comments. I wasn't aware HnH was not on the christmas list though.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> You're a fucking idiot. There's really nothing more to say.


 

Yes there is. There is an observation to made about the vapidity of people who throw unsubstantiated ad hom insults around the place. I've just been discussing economics with a 19 year old racist who made a better account of himself than you, and he didn't make a good one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 27, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Yes there is. There is an observation to made about the vapidity of people who throw unsubstantiated ad hom insults around the place. I've just been discussing economics with a 19 year old racist who made a better account of himself than you, and he didn't make a good one.


 



> _some egs on way off life_
> _- do rubish job you hate or no job and no money_
> _- crap wether most of time_
> _- town looks grey and concreet evrywhere_
> ...


 
winning hearts and minds


----------



## Delroy Booth (Jul 27, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> There is an observation to made about the vapidity of people who throw unsubstantiated ad hom insults around the place.


 
unsubstantiated? I think that shitty blog you've been writing is all the substantiation I need to know you're a gobshite.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> So whose going to pull HnH for refering to a cypriot EDL'er as Stavros. It's hypocritical to use racial stereotyping whilst campaigning against, errr racial stereotyping in my book. And to attack them for being "thick" is as equally offensive. The reason they attend or support EDL events is because they need educating, not attacked for their lack of it. Smug know-it-all "lefties" who like to impose their intellect on their lessers is not the fundamental base of working class ideology that i would align to. Ironically i will probably get shouted down on here now by people using long words that i do not understand the meaning of. Poor old working class scum that iam.


 

If a person uses stupid arguments, regardless of subject or background of that person, it is legit to describe them as such. It may not be strategically wise, but it is legit. 

If you think the EDL need "educating" how far removed are you from the attitudes you are decrying? 

Some more general points

i) I am the first to have a go at people who deride appearance and possible (lack of) employment status of EDLers. But such instances are rare.

ii) Likewise, most of the people who I've come across regularly laughing at the EDL spend a lot more time in serious discussion of the issues along lines not dis similar from discussed here. The amount of people who just go "hahahahahah thicko" without far deeper discussion around and about the issues of culture, faith, economics etc. are very small. 

iii) As such, there is just as much a risk of stereotypes being cooked up about "self appointed lefty moralisers" by lefties who are er...self appointing and somewhat moralising.

iv) There is no causal link I can see between bigotry/ignorance and class. People from all classes make poor cases with poor logic.

To say "you are laughing at someone because of their class" when one is laughing at someone for stupid bigotry, fallacious logic etc. is to assume that causal link in fact or in the mind of the laugher. It is prejudiced in itself.

v) Reasoned engagement is almost as likely to alienate a bigot as outright laughter. The "alienation of laughter" argument is rather over stated.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2013)

Have a look at his tory one which he's spamming around everywhere. He's rabid. Proper frothing rabid.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> If a person uses stupid arguments, regardless of subject or background of that person, it is legit to describe them as such. It may not be strategically wise, but it is legit.
> 
> If you think the EDL need "educating" how far removed are you from the attitudes you are decrying?
> 
> ...



It's because you're generalising everyone in the EDL to fit your stereotype of a thick working class person you daft cunt.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2013)

I have no faith whatsoever that someone whose thinks the below is good (or better) doesn't go around looking at all sorts of people thinking that this is how they think based on their appearance:

_some egs on way off life_
_- do rubish job you hate or no job and no money_
_- crap wether most of time_
_- town looks grey and concreet evrywhere_
_- everyone rips you of (agane dont say too much about this sounds leftie if you do)_
_- maybe drink a lot_
_- football x factor or britain got talunt are high light of week_
_- blame muslims and imigrunts for any off above that is bad_
_- think about muslims having sex with kids _

It's just so far beyond crude and revealing that i find it hard to believe that it's been offered in public.


----------



## cesare (Jul 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i know they have. but some are turning up for croydon and some are meeting them at woolwich. either way there will be a fuck all display of antifasicm from U75 as usual.


You actually don't know what urban posters do or don't do re antifascism, because anyone involved is unlikely to be posting it. On the other hand you lot can't get your facts straight eg Woolwich last time. So don't start having a pop.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> unsubstantiated? I think that shitty blog you've been writing is all the substantiation I need to know you're a gobshite.


 


DotCommunist said:


> winning hearts and minds


 

The blog isn't actually aimed at EDL people, to win their "hearts and minds". 

It grew out of many hours of trying to engage fairly seriously with people who could barely argue their way out of a paper bag, but felt qualified in spreading as much hatred as they could manage. 

It was aimed as light relief for me and quite a lot of other people. They happen to like it. You guys don't. It divides opinion. Zowie.

What Dot Communist links to is refering to the fact that "the way of life" the bigot so often falls back on as an argument is, thanks mostly to capitalism and environmental degradation, full of struggle and not necessarily worthy of promotion. Why are they bigging it up so much?

I stand by it, you don't like it. Life goes on.

And yes, lots of EDLers do seem to think about muslims having sex with children rather too much, it's fucking weird and pointing it out is no great sin.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 27, 2013)

what is it with prats and appeal to debate club logic.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2013)

No one likes it. You poor deluded fool.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

Butchers_

- do rubish job you hate or no job and no money _
Employment opportunities are often rare, uninspiring and ill paid._
__- crap wether most of time
_Subjective, but most would concur. Not that controversial a point._- town looks grey and concreet evrywhere
_Environmental degradation and neglect, especially in urban areas - again, is that controversial? 
_- everyone rips you of (agane dont say too much about this sounds leftie if you do)
_Capitalism. Uncontroversial round here I would think.
_- maybe drink a lot
_Which people sometimes do for a variety of reasons, regardless of class. Plenty of stats to back this up.
_- football x factor or britain got talunt are high light of week
_Seems to be true, this seems the most dubious of them on re-reading but is hardly a shocker or "far beyond crude" especially on a board with some of the ad hom language I see here.
_- blame muslims and imigrunts for any off above that is bad
_Pretty standard right wing tenet, possibly too generalised.
_- think about muslims having sex with kid
_As I said before, it's an obsession of the phobe and some of them could probably do with help 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If that's really "far beyond crude" perhaps you are not as widely read as I thought Butch. As a critique of modern life in Britain there's far more cutting ones to be found, if anything it's quite mild.

And just what is this "way of life" they go on about? 

That's what the piece is attacking, and what no one here seems to have engaged with (should they want a serious discussion). 

Again, the hypocrisy of throwing names and generalised insults around at people for allegedly throwing names and generalised insults about...well I'll leave it there.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2013)

Oh just shut up you rabid dog.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> No one likes it. You poor deluded fool.


 

Apart from the people that go out of their way to say so time and again, you may have a point. 

I'm not bigging that up, but you're not in a position to judge what other people think. 

7,000,000,000 people on a ball of rock will tend to throw up variance of opinion that not even you could accurately categorise in entirety.  

I know some time ago you said the people who said they like it were "making it up to be polite". Perhaps some are, but to say that all are is, once more, every bit as arrogant and deluded as you accuse me of being.

One pattern I've noticed is that the people who praise it more tend to be those who have tried to seriously engage with EDLers more. That's not scientifically measured, which I'm happy to admit - rather than just concoct something out of thin air and assume it to be true.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Oh just shut up you rabid dog.


 

Like the young racist I was speaking to, once a bit of level headed discussion looks more likely, out come the names and the disengage. 

I've said it for years, too often you can give it out but you can't take it back. Classic bully trait, but I know it is far beneath you really.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Satire? This drivel you write and that these people post in their comments -you think that's satire? You're an idiot.



Disgusting.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

He can't even see what's bad about it.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

one more point about that blog - I've always welcomed the discussion here and taken the points seriously. However, opposition on the basis expressed here is very rare beyond here.

In fact, most people who dislike it do so because they think it is serious. That happens quite a lot. Lots of people say they can hardly tell the difference, that it's very well done (their words) or warn me that it could be taken seriously.

That to me is pretty substantive evidence that it has a point, that the fallacious stupidity of the modern islamaphobe / racist is so severe that even what should be overt piss-takes look average by comparison.

There happens to be far more to it than "hahahahahahahah thickie EDLer can't spell", but people will see what they want to see I guess. I would have got bored of it pretty quickly if that was the case.

Note, I'm not the one who brought it up on this occasion. Right to reply and all that.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> none. i do not slag people off for the class background but for their actions. read the blog.



I never suggested you did. This all started IIRC because you refused to condemn those that do. Your enemy's enemy isn't always your friend mate.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> one more point about that blog - I've always welcomed the discussion here and taken the points seriously. However, opposition on the basis expressed here is very rare beyond here.
> 
> In fact, most people who dislike it do so because they think it is serious. That happens quite a lot. Lots of people say they can hardly tell the difference, that it's very well done (their words) or warn me that it could be taken seriously.
> 
> ...



It says something about your readership and you and nothing else.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 27, 2013)

Is there any wonder, after trying to explain it for several pages on here, on several occasions, people get pissed off at you and call you a cunt taffboy gwyrdd? I went a bit over the top with mal the other day, venting my frustration at the EDL news lot at him and I openly admit that was unfair - I dislike some of what he writes but he's not in the same category as them. But you are - in fact if anything you're even worse.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2013)

Utter delusion. This is where edl obsession gets you.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> He can't even see what's bad about it.


 

I can see what people say is bad about it, and have discussed it far more seriously and respectfully than has ever come the other way regarding it's arguably more redeeming points. Ta.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Utter delusion. This is where edl obsession gets you.


 

LOL - I probably was obsessed for a while, captivated even by a level of denseness that I have never come across anywhere before or since. I just could not fathom it, and still struggle to. But I am mostly recovered now, and thanks for the concern.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 27, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I can see what people say is bad about it, and have discussed it far more seriously and respectfully than has ever come the other way regarding it's arguably more redeeming points. Ta.



1) it's shit.
2) it isn't funny.
3) it reveals more about your prejudices than it does anything about the edl.
4) you're so far up your own jacksy that you can't even see it despite being told the same thing by countless people.


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## J Ed (Jul 27, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> And yes, lots of EDLers do seem to think about muslims having sex with children rather too much, it's fucking weird and pointing it out is no great sin.


 
Obviously I think that the anger is very much misdirected here from legitimate anger at a tiny minority to anger at everyone perceived as Muslim but are you suggesting that it is illegitimate for people to be furious about and preoccupied with grooming gangs? Knowing that enslavement and rape of children went on and continues to go on under our noses across the country makes me very angry and disgusted, I thought that everyone felt that way.


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## Limerick Red (Jul 27, 2013)

diddyman out and about again today....he fuckin gets about!


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## Orang Utan (Jul 27, 2013)

Apparently they are about to march through Deptford.
Idiots. We're here


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## Orang Utan (Jul 27, 2013)

The EVF though, not the EDL. Splitters!


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 27, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> You're a massive twat, taffboy.
> 
> You're my enemy.


I am massively embarrassed for him.


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## ddraig (Jul 27, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> The EVF though, not the EDL. Splitters!


 
any show?


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 27, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> what is it with prats and appeal to debate club logic.


 
The pathetic uni debating society language they employ is the funniest thing. You can alway spot a crank by these types of words. "retract" or "fallacy" or "substantiate" or "engage" or perhaps using words like "one" instead of "I" as if just littering your ill-thought out brainfarts with words that you think people who are posh use lends it some special legitimacy. See also whinging and moaning about "ad hom" or "respectfully debating" no fuck that, that's just an excuse to deflect attention away from the content of their argument.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 27, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> The pathetic uni debating society language they employ is the funniest thing. You can alway spot a crank by these types of words. "retract" or "fallacy" or "substantiate" or "engage" or perhaps using words like "one" instead of "I" as if just littering your ill-thought out brainfarts with words that you think people who are posh use lends it some special legitimacy. See also whinging and moaning about "ad hom" or "respectfully debating" no fuck that, that's just an excuse to deflect attention away from the content of their argument.


 

its because they see it as fencing. Riposte! counter-thrust! en garde!

give me a buckler and an english backsword. Honest.


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## frogwoman (Jul 27, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> The pathetic uni debating society language they employ is the funniest thing. You can alway spot a crank by these types of words. "retract" or "fallacy" or "substantiate" or "engage" or perhaps using words like "one" instead of "I" as if just littering your ill-thought out brainfarts with words that you think people who are posh use lends it some special legitimacy. See also whinging and moaning about "ad hom" or "respectfully debating" no fuck that, that's just an excuse to deflect attention away from the content of their argument.


 

paradigm


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## J Ed (Jul 27, 2013)

Epistemologically


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 27, 2013)

Sky news caught up the the guy with the Mosque boom tattoo.


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## Orang Utan (Jul 27, 2013)

ddraig said:


> any show?


No. Fizzled out - it was raining and there are no pubs on the supposed route and they're so thick they probably would have got lost too. Would have been ill-advised as the locals would have run them out


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## ddraig (Jul 27, 2013)

careful now! you'll have half the thread after ya!


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## AKA pseudonym (Jul 27, 2013)

ZCompany Hacking Crew (ZHC) takes English Defence League. EDL Northampton Division II facebook group over....


> We have infiltrated the admins and their entire friends list we also have your photographs
> WATCH THIS SPACE ZHC HURRICAINE STRIKES AGAIN


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 28, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Obviously I think that the anger is very much misdirected here from legitimate anger at a tiny minority to anger at everyone perceived as Muslim but are you suggesting that it is illegitimate for people to be furious about and preoccupied with grooming gangs? Knowing that enslavement and rape of children went on and continues to go on under our noses across the country makes me very angry and disgusted, I thought that everyone felt that way.


 

Of course outrage is appropriate against grooming gangs, on the basis of the crime and not the ethnicity or supposed faith of the criminal.

As with women and animal rights, the purpose of the EDL and general far right is clearly to exploit victims. 

Child abuse sadly happens across all sections of society. There may be patterns within modes of abuse, in general it is highly dangerous to point at any faith, ethnicity, class etc as being responsible. The EDL obsess about a very narrow error for political capital. 

I'd be shocked if you or the people who "liked" that post were unaware of this dynamic.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 28, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> The pathetic uni debating society language they employ is the funniest thing. You can alway spot a crank by these types of words. "retract" or "fallacy" or "substantiate" or "engage" or perhaps using words like "one" instead of "I" as if just littering your ill-thought out brainfarts with words that you think people who are posh use lends it some special legitimacy. See also whinging and moaning about "ad hom" or "respectfully debating" no fuck that, that's just an excuse to deflect attention away from the content of their argument.


 

I had no idea that certain words were off limits in making points, rendering the user to be judged a "crank"

Is there a more formal guide we can refer to in future, or can we just make up a list as we go along?

If I am wrapped up in that attack (possibly am not) I have never sought to deflect attention from critique, always dealt with it head on.

Why the fuck would anyone come on here wanting to be thought "posh"?

Certain words and phrases can annoy on a personal level though. I share Frogwomans disdain for "paradigm".


----------



## laptop (Jul 28, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I had no idea.


 
Edited for precision.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 28, 2013)

Sorry, had someone said something about "deflecting attention away from content of argument"...?


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Jul 28, 2013)

I ended up at lunar house today a purely by acident s I was in croydon and saw the gathering
first  thought was that it was edl then there seemed to be PCS flags too mingled in- what was that about? Am i misding some facsit group with initials pcs or are they in cahhots with fascists??

was a fair amount of anti fascist presence and some good conversations at the bus stop queue


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## ddraig (Jul 28, 2013)

evf, similar shite


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## Puddy_Tat (Jul 28, 2013)

Miss-Shelf said:


> I ended up at lunar house today a purely by acident s I was in croydon and saw the gathering
> first thought was that it was edl then there seemed to be PCS flags too mingled in- what was that about? Am i misding some facsit group with initials pcs or are they in cahhots with fascists??
> 
> was a fair amount of anti fascist presence and some good conversations at the bus stop queue


 
something about it (written in advance) on the transpontine blog here

i would have thought that the PCS were part of the anti-EVF demo


----------



## tony.c (Jul 28, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> i would have thought that the PCS were part of the anti-EVF demo


I think the PCS branch at Lunar House organised the ant-EVF mobilisation, or at least sponsored it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 28, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> diddyman out and about again today....he fuckin gets about!


 
where does he get his money???????????????


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I never suggested you did. This all started IIRC because you refused to condemn those that do. Your enemy's enemy isn't always your friend mate.


 

yes i know. the point i was trying to make is that it is implicit by the political slant of the writers  - anarchist - that we are hardly anti-working class. we just dont waste time slaggging off ALL the people we dislike  but that does not condone something. we have never slagged the queen off, does that mean we therefore 'support' the old trout?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> yes i know. the point i was trying to make is that it is implicit by the political slant of the writers  - anarchist - that we are hardly anti-working class. we just dont waste time slaggging off ALL the people we dislike  but that does not condone something. we have never slagged the queen off, does that mean we therefore 'support' the old trout?



Do you frequently use the Queen as one of your sources and provide links to her website?


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## malatesta32 (Jul 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Do you frequently use the Queen as one of your sources and provide links to her website?


http://www.royal.gov.uk/hmthequeen/hmthequeen.aspx


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## Citizen66 (Jul 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> http://www.royal.gov.uk/hmthequeen/hmthequeen.aspx



I believe we were discussing links on your apolitical blog.


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## malatesta32 (Jul 28, 2013)

dont be silly. apolitical my arse. maybe we can do something on you so you can tell everyone that they are getting antifascism wrong and then you can tell us all what to do! 
who are you to tell people what to write about? no one. who am i to tell anyone what to write about? no one.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> dont be silly. apolitical my arse. maybe we can do something on you so you can tell everyone that they are getting antifascism wrong and then you can tell us all what to do!
> who are you to tell people what to write about? no one. who am i to tell anyone what to write about? no one.



So classism is fine as long as it's alleged anti-fascists doing it? 

Can't wait for your book with the foreword by Nick Griffin.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 28, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> where does he get his money???????????????


We'll that would be speculating, but can you give us the stats of how many arrests he's had in relation to nationalist stuff
(edl, notinafirm casuals, NWI,EVF) and still not a sniff of bird.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 28, 2013)

> The Night the EDL Attacked Me


http://networkedblogs.com/NAcEa


----------



## tony.c (Jul 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> So classism is fine as long as it's alleged anti-fascists doing it?
> 
> Can't wait for your book with the foreword by Nick Griffin.


I don't understand why anti-fascists have to be anti-classists, whatever that is. 
Surely we are on the same side against fascism with anyone who opposes it, whether they are liberals, Tories or whatever, even if we might disagree with their political (or religious) views.
Or are only people we agree with (depending on our own personal political views) allowed to be anti-fascists?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 28, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I don't understand why anti-fascists have to be anti-classists, whatever that is.
> Surely we are on the same side against fascism with anyone who opposes it, whether they are liberals, Tories or whatever, even if we might disagree with their political (or religious) views.
> Or are only people we agree with (depending on our own personal political views) allowed to be anti-fascists?



Because if you're involved in class politics it seems a bit bizarre to jump into bed with people who sneer at the working class just because they oppose the edl. Should anti-fascists be above criticism just because they claim they're anti-fascists? David Cameron is a signatory of UAF. Maybe we should give him an easy ride because of that?


----------



## juice_terry (Jul 28, 2013)

Tony I don't think the argument is that you have to be anti classist to be anti fascist. The argument is that there is any need to post classist shite about the edl etc as part of the fight against them . The elitism shown in these "sartorial" blogs is what can disengage/ deter a lot of folk who come from the same background as the edl supporters from becoming involved in fighting against them. I certainly have nothing in common with your average UAF/HNH member but that doesn't make me less of an anti fascist !!


----------



## juice_terry (Jul 28, 2013)

It also runs the risk of painting the picture that all fascists are white working class men , which as everyone knows isn't the case


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## Citizen66 (Jul 28, 2013)

juice_terry said:


> It also runs the risk of painting the picture that all fascists are white working class men , which as everyone knows isn't the case



Or that all anti-fascists are middle class sneering pricks.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 28, 2013)

You can't be an anti-fascist and hate the working class. It's not possible.


----------



## laptop (Jul 28, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> You can't be an anti-fascist and hate the working class. It's not possible.


 
Ermmm... I give you Bishops.

Some of the prominent anti-fascist Bishops called themselves Christian Socialists. But some were and are motivated by fascism being _competition_.

E2A: Or, come to think of it, by being gay.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 28, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Because if you're involved in class politics it seems a bit bizarre to jump into bed with people who sneer at the working class just because they oppose the edl. Should anti-fascists be above criticism just because they claim they're anti-fascists? David Cameron is a signatory of UAF. Maybe we should give him an easy ride because of that?


 

Or if you're applying that sort of logic why is it any less sensible to form a popular front with the EDL over the bedroom tax?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2013)

It's perfectly possible to be an anti-fascist and be anti-working class. That's why it's best to _give up anti-fascism _for some more coherent politics.


----------



## tony.c (Jul 28, 2013)

I'm glad some of you weren't in charge of recruitment (or propaganda) during WW2. The Third Reich would be running things now.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 28, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Of course outrage is appropriate against grooming gangs, on the basis of the crime and not the ethnicity or supposed faith of the criminal.
> 
> As with women and animal rights, the purpose of the EDL and general far right is clearly to exploit victims.
> 
> ...


 

I think that these are all really good points, they're made well here and I agree... but people who read that blog are not going to get the impression that you think that about the issue. They're going to think that it's a trivial issue and you're asserting that people who are worried about grooming gangs are either overreacting to something that is trivial or think a lot about paedophiles because they are Muslim because they have some kind of sexual fetish associated with that.

This stuff might fly well with the pretentious bigoted pricks that gravitate around EDL News but it looks just awful to most people.


----------



## cesare (Jul 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> It's perfectly possible to be an anti-fascist and be anti-working class. That's why it's best to _give up anti-fascism _for some more coherent politics.


It's not really a political position in and of itself, is it? Being against something. Like anti-capitalism. Can attract all sorts cf occupy.


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## Citizen66 (Jul 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> It's perfectly possible to be an anti-fascist and be anti-working class. That's why it's best to _give up anti-fascism _for some more coherent politics.



Good point. That's at the heart of this.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 28, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I'm glad some of you weren't in charge of recruitment (or propaganda) during WW2. The Third Reich would be running things now.


 
Yes, clearly what's going on now is _exactly _the same as world war two. You fucking plum.


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## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

Spotted this earlier elsewhere.

10 Theses on Fascism and How Not to Fight It:


> 1. Don't fool yourselves-- the masses are not automatically or essentially on your side.
> 
> 2. Don't blame your own mistakes for a fascist takeover-- victory is not automatically granted, no matter how clever you are.
> 
> ...


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 29, 2013)

10. Never trust the Stalinists.

Does that include the second world war?


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## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

I assume so? The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact for one and according to archive research by, Anne Applebaum, Stalin killed more German Communist party members than Hitler did.


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> I assume so? The Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact for one and according to archive research by, Anne Applebaum, Stalin killed more German Communist party members than Hitler did.


 
All true enough but we also can't really escape the fact it was the USSR that more than any other country that is responsible for defeating Nazism. Nazism wasn't defeated politically by any anti-fascist forces within Germany, the had nazi's crushed the German left and the German labour movement comprehensively by about 1936, it was defeated militarily by an alliance between a degenerated workers state and US-led imperialist capitalism. Not really meant to be a defence of Stalin personally but it is a fact.

Might not be able to trust 'em but without Stalinist's and the Soviet Union we'd all be speaking German. Seriously. They'd have forced everyone in Britain to change their language, as you know that's customary with invading countries. 

Anyway it's a good list and all but I doubt "don't trust the Stalinists" will be of much use in the future. The number of literal stalinists still operating in British politics is pretty low these days and I can't see it making a comeback so nice sentiments and all but hardly practical. Don't buy the Morning Star just to be on the safe side.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 29, 2013)

But did the USSR have a key role in defeating nazism because it was nazism or because they were attacked?

A similar question is under-asked of the UK's role - Did we declare war because the 3rd Reich was bad or because they were a threat? As we know, the little Austrian had plenty of admirers on these shores. Churchill was possibly in a minority for seeing the threat, and even he was a virulent racist.

Is The Morning Star still Tankie? How would we know? I bought it for quite a while before the cover price shot up 66% at once. "i" is all I can really afford on a daily basis now.


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 29, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I bought it for quite a while before the cover price shot up 66% at once. "i" is all I can really afford on a daily basis now.


 
Saying nothing.


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## Delroy Booth (Jul 29, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> But did the USSR have a key role in defeating nazism because it was nazism or because they were attacked?


 
Does it matter? Whatever their intent was, it doesn't change what happened, does it?


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## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Might not be able to trust 'em but without Stalinist's and the Soviet Union we'd all be speaking German.


 
Isn't English a collection of words brought here from Northern Germany, Friesia and Scandanavia? Then there's those damn Romans, Jutes and Angles.


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## tony.c (Jul 29, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yes, clearly what's going on now is _exactly _the same as world war two. You fucking plum.


I do know that, but thanks for your incisive comment.


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## Combustible (Jul 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> 5. Bourgeois Democracy is not the opposite of Fascism-- quite the contrary: it is its foundation, source, and sibling.


 
This sounds like a convenient slogan but is it true? I don't really see how the Weimar Republic was the "foundation, source, and sibling" of Nazi Germany. The Nazis primarily represented those conservative forces who rejected the legitimacy of the Weimar Republic and its 'bourgeois democracy'. In what sense can it be its foundation and source?


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I do know that, but thanks for your incisive comment.


 
So you think it's useful to compare a minor street movement with zero political influence and who the vast majority of the population think are twats to a time when fascism controlled two of the most powerful states in Europe and was busy colonising the rest of it? The point is to make sure the EDL and fellow travelers don't get enough support to be a serious political threat (it had gone a little bit beyond that by the start of WW2) and I don't see how alienating precisely the kind of people they're trying to attract will help in this effort. 

If Britain ever turned fascist half the EDL news lot would be right behind it, getting rid of low functioning humans and burning chavs - why would I want to make common cause with these people and why are they any better than the EDL?


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2013)

Combustible said:


> This sounds like a convenient slogan but is it true? I don't really see how the Weimar Republic was the "foundation, source, and sibling" of Nazi Germany. The Nazis primarily represented those conservative forces who rejected the legitimacy of the Weimar Republic and its 'bourgeois democracy'. In what sense can it be its foundation and source?


 
Yet they used the Weimar constitution to assume power and were aided in that by the leaders of the Weimar regime. They're both means of maintaining capitalism, and when bourgeois democracy could no longer do that it called on its less subtle sibling.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Spotted this earlier elsewhere.
> 
> 10 Theses on Fascism and How Not to Fight It:


if your number 5) is true then why, when 'democracy' really was 'bourgeois' - that is, only the bourgeoisie had the right to vote - didn't fascism emerge? why did it emerge instead in a period of mass democracy?


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Spotted this earlier elsewhere.
> 
> 10 Theses on Fascism and How Not to Fight It:


 
Where is this odd mix of half understood anti-anti-fascism, self-help therapy, heroisation of the glorious anti-fascist self and historical mistakes from?


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yet they used the Weimar constitution to assume power and were aided in that by the leaders of the Weimar regime. They're both means of maintaining capitalism, and when bourgeois democracy could no longer do that it called on its less subtle sibling.


 

Also some of the measures introduced in Weimar Germany against gypsies and disabled people laid the foundations for later, far more extreme Nazi policies.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

Combustible said:


> This sounds like a convenient slogan but is it true? I don't really see how the Weimar Republic was the "foundation, source, and sibling" of Nazi Germany. The Nazis primarily represented those conservative forces who rejected the legitimacy of the Weimar Republic and its 'bourgeois democracy'. In what sense can it be its foundation and source?


 
It's true-ish - if badly expressed - 'sibling' for instance makes no sense as the Nazi state didn't exist alongside the weimar republic - there are better familial metaphors. The SPD brought in and maintained the weimar republic on the back of their violent crushing of the revolution and defeat and splitting of the working class which helped produce a 'non-normal' situation in terms of effectively managing the class of that country throughout the 20s (and in a very volatile wider context). When the bourgeois state couldn't impose their answers to the contradictions this threw up through democracy they moved to authoritarian presidential/executive rule quite simply - and still within the weimar repulic - and it was this presidential/executive who, after it had failed, decided to pass the reins to hitler. It was the weimar republic who legally gave Hitler the power to end its miserable life.

Of course, that's just the _political_ side of it. Plenty of other things we could look at for examples of continuity. The (very) basic idea though is that capital was ok with bourgeois democracy in those conditions up to a point, past that point it preferred other options - and that it retains those options in its armoury. It doesn't mean that bourgeois democracy will always lead to fascism.


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## Combustible (Jul 29, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yet they used the Weimar constitution to assume power and were aided in that by the leaders of the Weimar regime. They're both means of maintaining capitalism, and when bourgeois democracy could no longer do that it called on its less subtle sibling.


 
Well yes they partly used constitutional means to assume power and were supported by senior conservative figures in the Weimar regime. But that is very different to saying that the Weimar Republic was the foundation and source of the Nazi regime. The conservative leaders of the Weimar regime who assisted the Nazi seizure of power also didn't really view the Weimar Republic as legitimate and wanted an autocratic government whether it be Nazi or military led.

Simply saying that they are both "means of maintaining capitalism" seems a bit of a cop out. I mean surely that description applies to any capitalist government. That doesn't mean that one is the foundation,source or sibling of the other.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2013)

Combustible said:


> Well yes they partly used constitutional means to assume power and were supported by senior conservative figures in the Weimar regime. But that is very different to saying that the Weimar Republic was the foundation and source of the Nazi regime. The conservative leaders of the Weimar regime who assisted the Nazi seizure of power also didn't really view the Weimar Republic as legitimate and wanted an autocratic government whether it be Nazi or military led.
> 
> Simply saying that they are both "means of maintaining capitalism" seems a bit of a cop out. I mean surely that description applies to any capitalist government. That doesn't mean that one is the foundation,source or sibling of the other.


 
It does apply to any capitalist government. They are siblings in that they both maintain the same set of economic relations. It's those economic relations that produced the conditions in which fascism could thrive. And as froggy says, by introducing legislation against _untermensch  _the Weimar regime helped normalise some of the stuff the Nazis would go on to do.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

Combustible said:


> Well yes they partly used constitutional means to assume power and were supported by senior conservative figures in the Weimar regime. But that is very different to saying that the Weimar Republic was the foundation and source of the Nazi regime. The conservative leaders of the Weimar regime who assisted the Nazi seizure of power also didn't really view the Weimar Republic as legitimate and wanted an autocratic government whether it be Nazi or military led.
> 
> Simply saying that they are both "means of maintaining capitalism" seems a bit of a cop out. I mean surely that description applies to any capitalist government. That doesn't mean that one is the foundation,source or sibling of the other.


 
That's why i said that it was badly expressed by the original author. They used fully constitutional means by the way not partly constitutional. Yes, senior conservative figures didn't view weimar as legitimate - but the SPD did and other centre parties did (the latter maybe tactically) and so made sure it stayed in place, that no challenges could come to it from the left and they were prepared to use any means they could to ensure this - from massacres of KPD members to making them redundant to putting them off unemployment benefit. This defence of weimar was one of the key things that _produced_ the non-normal situation that capital could not deal with through bourgeois democracy, To restore what the traditional elites and capital wanted required certain things to happen that weimar was unable to deal with and even exacerbating (destruction of all forms of w/c union and political representation, the hollowing out of any and all other independent forms of organisation, the subordination of civil-society to ends other than their own). _He who wills the end wills the means. _

Yes, it does apply to capital anywhere - note, _capital_, not capitalist _governments_.


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## Combustible (Jul 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> It's true-ish - if badly expressed - 'sibling' for instance makes no sense as the Nazi state didn't exist alongside the weimar republic - there are better familial metaphors. The SPD brought in and maintained the weimar republic on the back of their violent crushing of the revolution and defeat and splitting of the working class which helped produce a 'non-normal' situation in terms of effectively managing the class of that country throughout the 20s (and in a very volatile wider context). When the bourgeois state couldn't impose their answers to the contradictions this threw up through democracy they moved to authoritarian presidential/executive rule quite simply - and still within the weimar repulic - and it was this presidential/executive who, after it had failed, decided to pass the reins to hitler. It was the weimar republic who legally gave Hitler the power to end its miserable life.


 
Sure, I'm not sure I still see how it can be the foundation and source beyond the trivial fact that it immediately preceded it. Whilst it is true that the Weimar Republic led by the SPD fufilled a crucial role for capital in crushing the revolution and laid the basis for Nazi policies in other areas, this didn't really do anything to legitimize the Weimar Republic or the SPD in the eyes of the elites (not sure about wider capital?). And I was under the impression that the leaders during the period "authoritarian presidential/executive rule" (at least post Bruning) also essentially viewed Weimar as illegitimate and saw any replacement as correcting an aberration rather than somehow seeing it as any sort of foundation or basis.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

I think that you're reading foundation as being written into the basis of the new order, as support of it, rather than - as meant - that it contributed significantly towards _producing_ the situation that brought about the new order. As noted, the author of those points put it very badly. 

edit: and i would like to know where it's from.


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## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

Combustible said:


> This sounds like a convenient slogan but is it true? I don't really see how the Weimar Republic was the "foundation, source, and sibling" of Nazi Germany. The Nazis primarily represented those conservative forces who rejected the legitimacy of the Weimar Republic and its 'bourgeois democracy'. In what sense can it be its foundation and source?


 
Elections in 1930 Germany saw the break-up of a coalition government and it was replaced with a minority cabinet. Its leader, chancellor, Heinrich Brüning of the Centre Party, governed through emergency decrees from the president, Paul von Hindenburg. Governance by decree would become the new norm and paved the way for authoritarian forms of government. This led to the appointment of Hitler as leader of a government "independent from parliamentary parties" - a movement that prominent politicians and business leaders thought would "enrapture millions of people".

After Hitler was appointed Chancellor he saw to it that those in his circle were appointed to prominent positions in the new coalition government, especially in positions of power to gain control over the German police. Then, still having no majority and the coalition being in stalemate, again along came another dissolution of a coalition government accepted by Hindenburg.



> To achieve full political control despite not having an absolute majority in parliament, Hitler's government brought the Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act) to a vote in the newly elected Reichstag. The act gave Hitler's cabinet full legislative powers for a period of four years and (with certain exceptions) allowed deviations from the constitution. The bill required a two-thirds majority to pass. Leaving nothing to chance, the Nazis used the provisions of the Reichstag Fire Decree to keep several Social Democratic deputies from attending; the Communists had already been banned.


Again we turn to the position of the Centre Party, the third largest party in the Reichstag, which turned out to be decisive.



> After Hitler verbally promised party leader Ludwig Kaas that President von Hindenburg would retain his power of veto, Kaas announced the Centre Party would support the Enabling Act. Ultimately, the Enabling Act passed by a vote of 441–84, with all parties except the Social Democrats voting in favour. The Enabling Act, along with the Reichstag Fire Decree, transformed Hitler's government into a de facto legal dictatorship.


 
So there you have it. The development of governance by decree (founded, as stated by Hindenburg) became the norm and paved the way for authoritarian forms of government, which led to Hitler being appointed, who then was able to bring in more draconian powers for a lengthy period, which allowed deviations from the constitution. Then, using the powers by decree founded by Hindenburg and applied by the Centre Party (now with added intimidation) to stifle opposition, including the banning of the Communist party. This, as has already been made clear, then transformed Hitler's government into a 'de facto legal dictatorship'.

Well, this is my reading of the 'founding, source and sibling' of Nazi Germany. I'm open to other suggestions.


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## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Where is this odd mix of half understood anti-anti-fascism, self-help therapy, heroisation of the glorious anti-fascist self and historical mistakes from?


Some guy who "friended" me on on facebook some years ago, based in the US. Has some interesting things posted. Not your usual UK trot, who have very little to say these days. The whole thing is awaiting translation apparently. Those are some bullet points.

Source.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Some guy who "friended" me on on facebook some years ago, based in the US. Has some interesting things posted. Not your usual UK trot, who have very little to say these days. The whole thing is awaiting translation apparently. Those are some bullet points.
> Source.


 
Ok, thanks.


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm a bit sick of this facebook analysis going around that because the government is doing some repressive things it means we're going to become a fascist regime. It's not fascism, it's capitalism - and it's also dangerous because it implies because a regime is not fascist that means it's all right.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2013)

It also ends up robbing fascism as a concept of its descriptive power and ends up masking the horrific nature of fascism proper - kind of like the mistake the 3rd international made in characterising the SPD as social fascists.


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

If anyone is interested I have the book "Death and Deliverance" by Michael Burleigh about Aktion-T4 and it has a chapter about growing support for measures such as euthanasia and sterilisation during the weimar years. If anyone is interested in borrowing it send me your address and I'll send it to you.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2013)

I was about to say I'd like to have a read of that but to be honest my reading list is that long at the moment (and growing all the time) that I'd probably not get the chance to look at it for about a year so I don't think it would be fair really.


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

butchers has probably already put it online tbf


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## andysays (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I'm a bit sick of this facebook analysis going around that because the government is doing some repressive things it means we're going to become a fascist regime. It's not fascism, it's capitalism - and it's also dangerous because it implies because a regime is not fascist that means it's all right.


 
Yep, just because the jack-booted hoardes are not rounding people up yet, everything is still cool...

It seems clear to me that fascism was a the result of particular social, economic and technological circumstances which are not going to be repeated, and that fascism as it occurred in a number of European countries in 1920's 30's 40's isn't going to happen again.

This is not to say that some more-or-less totalitarian form of capitalism can't happen in future, but it won't be fascism.


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

this bit is interesting: 




> The purely custodial function of the asylums was underlined by decrees issued in 1931 and 1932 [before the nazis came to power] which affirmed the exclusive right of the police to commit people to asylums in the interests of public safety. Expenditure cuts were recorded from virtually every region. In Brandenburg all budgetary headings excepting drugs were cut by 20 percent; in Upper Silesia, clothing costs per patient were reduced from 60 RMs per year to 45 RMs; daily food costs per patient sank from 0.75 RMs to 0.55 RMs. In Saxony, essential building maintenance work was cut by 10%, clothing bills by 8%, equipment by 10% and food by 4%. In Pomerania, patients received ersatz coffee, margarine and a bit of bread for breaking fast; patients needing salvarsan or other drugs had to pay for them. In Westphalia the authorities cut all non-essential outgoings by up to 20%, including expenditure on heat, light, power and water. Everywhere, posts were frozen or a certain proportion of office staff made redundant.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

andysays said:


> Yep, just because the jack-booted hoardes are not rounding people up yet, everything is still cool...
> 
> It seems clear to me that fascism was a the result of particular social, economic and technological circumstances which are not going to be repeated, and that fascism as it occurred in a number of European countries in 1920's 30's 40's isn't going to happen again.
> 
> This is not to say that some more-or-less totalitarian form of capitalism can't happen in future, but it won't be fascism.


 

yep and other racist/anti-semitic regimes have existed, but they haven't been fascist (south africa for example)


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 29, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Does it matter? Whatever their intent was, it doesn't change what happened, does it?


 

It matters if one is trying to make a moral argument for the USSR under Stalin (not that I'm saying you are) 

I don't dwell on it much, but in regards to the UK I do think nationalists can appropriate the credibility of anti-fascism and anti nazi-ism by perpetuating a myth (which seems widely adhered to) that the UK fought Germany because Hitler was a very bad man who did very bad things. We fought him because he was a direct threat to us. That's fine too of course, but what the myth crucially allows for is the considerable sympathy and respect that Hitler had over here to be swept under the carpet.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

What sort of nationalists 'appropriate the credibility of anti-fascism and anti nazi-ism by perpetuating a myth (which seems widely adhered to) that the UK fought Germany because Hitler was a very bad man who did very bad things'?


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It matters if one is trying to make a moral argument for the USSR under Stalin (not that I'm saying you are)
> 
> I don't dwell on it much, but in regards to the UK I do think nationalists can appropriate the credibility of anti-fascism and anti nazi-ism by perpetuating a myth (which seems widely adhered to) that the UK fought Germany because Hitler was a very bad man who did very bad things. We fought him because he was a direct threat to us. That's fine too of course, but what the myth crucially allows for is the considerable sympathy and respect that Hitler had over here to be swept under the carpet.


 

what sympathy and respect did hitler have over here?


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> butchers has probably already put it online tbf


 
Nope!


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

Someone on twitter sent me this about the relationship between fascist and liberal ideology. It's called "the apprentice's sorcerer". I haven't started reading it yet beyond the first few page but it looks excellent.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 29, 2013)

Well there was a monarch for starters. 

When I was growing up there was a dusty old alamanac on the shelves from the mid 30s (36 IIRC). Under the entry for Hitler the concluding line was that "some of his policies are considered controversial"

Foreign news coverage would have been less prominent then of course, and people would have been less aware of the warning signs. But apart from genuine leftists did Churchill not stand out a good deal as seeing the danger? It follows that a lot of people thought there was no problem at all at least, just as Il Duce was admired for the trains thing.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Well there was a monarch for starters.
> 
> When I was growing up there was a dusty old alamanac on the shelves from the mid 30s (36 IIRC). Under the entry for Hitler the concluding line was that "some of his policies are considered controversial"
> 
> Foreign news coverage would have been less prominent then of course, and people would have been less aware of the warning signs. But apart from genuine leftists did Churchill not stand out a good deal as seeing the danger? It follows that a lot of people thought there was no problem at all at least, just as Il Duce was admired for the trains thing.


 
Give up youtube - read some actual books. Where was the 'considerable sympathy and respect that Hitler had over here'? What sections of the population did it come from primarily? How did it manifest itself? What was driving it? What were its consequences. Do you like my philosophy football Up the RAF! t-shirt, it only cost £20.


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

the people who wrote that encyclopedia were only representing themselves, that wasn't the huge majority of people. that wasn't normal society, I don't believe there was _ever_ much in the way of working class support for Hitler or Nazism in this country. what there was was often undercut quite successful by groups like the communist party with their campaigns against evictions in London. there was loads of that sort of shit in the 30s like the author of just william writing about william and his mates tormenting a jewish man by pretending to be nazis, she also wrote stories with the implication that they shouldn't play with "common" boys and wrote about "savages from India". you have to think about what the audience for that stuff was in a time when there was a huge amount of repression against the working class and what was considered to be a real threat of a revolution.

the times wrote a puff piece in the 20s for the protocols, but it was only a small proportion of the populace that read that type of thing let alone believe it. I don't believe the majority of people in the country believed that shit. I don't think that it is true. In fact when Jewish refugees came to this country they were often almost shocked at how tolerant and accepting people were of them.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

The Times definitively exposed it as a forgery in the  early '20s. The Morning Post was the openly anti-semitic national paper (now part of The Telegraph) that reprinted parts of the Protocols.


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> The Times definitively exposed it as a forgery in the early '20s. The Morning Post was the openly anti-semitic national paper (now part of The Telegraph) that reprinted parts of the Protocols.


 

I thought they printed it first and then a bit later exposed it as a forgery?


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

regardless I don't think that it shows that Nazism had significant respect over here.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I thought they printed it first and then a bit later exposed it as a forgery?


 
Yes - sort of, but they never printed it - they ran a thing in 1920 that was based on nothing and just basically said _is this true?_, it was the typical elite anti-semitism of international politics types of the time (woodrow wilson type of stuff) and then the total expose in 1921. Whereas the MP went as far as running extensive sections of the book then another book which expanded on the Protocols.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> the people who wrote that encyclopedia were only representing themselves, that wasn't the huge majority of people. that wasn't normal society, I don't believe there was _ever_ much in the way of working class support for Hitler or Nazism in this country. *what there was was often undercut quite successful by groups like the communist party with their campaigns against evictions in London.* there was loads of that sort of shit in the 30s like the author of just william writing about william and his mates tormenting a jewish man by pretending to be nazis, she also wrote stories with the implication that they shouldn't play with "common" boys and wrote about "savages from India". you have to think about what the audience for that stuff was in a time when there was a huge amount of repression against the working class and what was considered to be a real threat of a revolution.
> 
> the times wrote a puff piece in the 20s for the protocols, but it was only a small proportion of the populace that read that type of thing let alone believe it. I don't believe the majority of people in the country believed that shit. I don't think that it is true. In fact when Jewish refugees came to this country they were often almost shocked at how tolerant and accepting people were of them.


 
Certain people could do with looking into the bit in bold and thinking about its implications for how we deal with the EDL and similar groups.


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

ah ok. yeh that's pretty much what i thought had happened. 

I didn't know about the Morning Post though. What sort of readership did that paper have?


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Certain people could do with looking into the bit in bold and thinking about its implications for how we deal with the EDL and similar groups.


 

yep, i remember hearing about the (Stalinist) Communist Party and their anti-fascist campaigns during the 30s, I think it was at a SP meeting where the EDL was being discussed. Apparently they ran a campaign to save families from eviction and got into some controversy because one of the families they were defending, the father was a blackshirt. They overlooked the guys political views and viewed him as a working class person facing eviction. obviously this approach, while not tolerating fascist views, was far more effective at both defending them from eviction and completely showing fascism up for what it was - an ideology that served capital and not the working class.


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## barney_pig (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> yep, i remember hearing about the (Stalinist) Communist Party and their anti-fascist campaigns during the 30s, I think it was at a SP meeting where the EDL was being discussed. Apparently they ran a campaign to save families from eviction and got into some controversy because one of the families they were defending, the father was a blackshirt. They overlooked the guys political views and viewed him as a working class person facing eviction. obviously this approach, while not tolerating fascist views, was far more effective at both defending them from eviction and completely showing fascism up for what it was - an ideology that served capital and not the working class.


It's all in piratin's book, a favourite for the swp in putting forward its political case for the anl. However it is also a prime bit of popular front propaganda.


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## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> ah ok. yeh that's pretty much what i thought had happened.
> 
> I didn't know about the Morning Post though. What sort of readership did that paper have?


 
50 000 at the time - so at around the same level as The Independent today, but without the history and therefore the influence and reputation the MP had of once being the most widely read paper in the country.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2013)

Lloyd George said some quite favourable things about Hitler too IIRC


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## J Ed (Jul 29, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> It's all in piratin's book, a favourite for the swp in putting forward its political case for the anl. However it is also a prime bit of popular front propaganda.


 

That explains why a member of the ISN used the baliffs and the CPGB as an example of why popular front rather than class based strategies were more effective lol


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## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

So where was the mass support that the Nazis had in the UK? I don't think it existed.


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## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I'm a bit sick of this facebook analysis going around that because the government is doing some repressive things it means we're going to become a fascist regime. It's not fascism, it's capitalism - and it's also dangerous because it implies because a regime is not fascist that means it's all right.


Here's one comment I picked up on a facebook 'benefits claimants fightback group page' yesterday which is completely barking:



> Is there anywhere left to shop at? Fascist Sportdirect.com.





> ""Show up for work and we might employ you that day????""
> What kind of sick multi million pound boss thought this was okay?


I pointed out that they're obviously taking advantage of the neoliberal agenda which has been around for the last 30 years, but it's not fascism. Exploitation, which is the hall-mark of capitalism it clearly is. If it was fascism you wouldn't be posting here criticising this company and then got this gem in reply:



> Germans sat drinking in the cafes while others disappeared (same here).





> Germans sat and criticised the workcamps and the corporations involved (same here).
> Germans voted for others, got fascism (same here).
> Nazis populated media with hate for others (same here) the populace terrorised (same here).
> One day they woke up and didn't dare criticise any longer (happening here).
> ...


Wonder what the SS Division of Sprtdirect.com dress like?


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

Fascist Sportdirect.com


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> what the SS Division of Sprtdirect.com dress like?


Basement floor.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

the problem with that is that it makes critics of the government look ridiculous, as if they're seeing fascism in everything. I understand why people are doing it. And I think there are parallels with the 30s (eta: but EVERY capitalist state has parallels with them), but I think that if you think the UK is fascist you seriously need to take a look at yourself. There are plenty of regimes where worse things are going on like China but yet they're not fascist either.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Wonder what the SS Division of Sprtdirect.com dress like?


 
SS in Everlast tracksuits with slazenger polos, doubt there would be as many industrial bands copying that look.


----------



## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Basement floor.


 

Haha. Just tried to post again on the thread in question and it's clear facebook admins have clobbered it:



> The content you're trying to share includes a link that's been blocked for being spammy or unsafe:
> 
> sprtdirect.com
> 
> ...


----------



## krink (Jul 29, 2013)

On a lighter note, I've just found out why the EDL is bad. It's because they haven't said ANYTHING about those shops who are selling padded bras for 5 year old girls. The bastatrds. 


I just saw it posted for real on twitter*. I have followed the still-laughing crowd for the odd bit of useful intel they post but that was enough for me. They've all gone now to protect my sanity!

*unless it was a brilliant troll


----------



## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> the problem with that is that it makes critics of the government look ridiculous,



The poster in question needs no help in looking ridiculous.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

krink said:


> On a lighter note, I've just found out why the EDL is bad. It's because they haven't said ANYTHING about those shops who are selling padded bras for 5 year old girls. The bastatrds.
> 
> 
> I just saw it posted for real on twitter*. I have followed the still-laughing crowd for the odd bit of useful intel they post but that was enough for me. They've all gone now to protect my sanity!
> ...


 

shit, all this time I've thought the EDL were great but now the scales have fallen from my eyes


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

If anyone is interested in reading that pdf btw its here. I think some bits are quite relevant to what's being discussed here. 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5726625/landa_apprentice-1.pdf


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jul 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Give up youtube - read some actual books. Where was the 'considerable sympathy and respect that Hitler had over here'? What sections of the population did it come from primarily? How did it manifest itself? What was driving it? What were its consequences. Do you like my philosophy football Up the RAF! t-shirt, it only cost £20.


 

I didn't reference YT. I referenced a book. That's as dismal a case as something I read by ID fucking S earlier.

I expect the sympathy for fascism came from the aristos and the bourgeois on the whole.

"Hurrah For The Blackshirts" is hardly a niche area of knowledge.

As Orwell * noted, the working class are the best defence against fascism, and I agree (though I don't know if he factored in the large list of "do not trusts" listed above)

Linked to nazi creed was a fairly widespread anti-semitism which Orwell also discussed (though Mussolini seems to have been far less taken with it)

*frogwoman *- I didn't cite the working class as a basis for that support. The support I am aware of was more establishment, which has long had a more cosy relationship with fascism than it should - not least as a hoped for means of warding off the red menace.

The almanac can be argued to only represent a certain view, though these things try to be neutral in an often liberal way. But it's certainly the case that racism, fascism and authoritarianism had a home in the mentality of many establishment folk across Europe. Does any of this really surprise you? 

My only point being that the heroic presentation of the British establishment as anti fascist / nazi is, IMO, exaggerated after the fact for effect. 

_ * a famous bloke who wrote books and essays I have read, apart from The Clergyman's Daughter._


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Wonder what the SS Division of Sprtdirect.com dress like?


 
LoNSDAle


----------



## audiotech (Jul 29, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> If anyone is interested in reading that pdf btw its here. I think some bits are quite relevant to what's being discussed here.
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5726625/landa_apprentice-1.pdf


 
Thanks for posting. I've read the introduction and I'll read the whole piece when I have time. Points that stand out so far are:


> Those who wish to comprehend fascist ideology would do well to reckon with the fact that lies, myth-mongering and demagoguery were built into it. This means that anybody who treats fascists as sincere immediately fails, whatever else he or she might be doing, to “take them seriously.”


and:





> The real point is not whether or not to take fascists at their word, but when to do so, and when not to....


----------



## tony.c (Jul 29, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> It's all in piratin's book, a favourite for the swp in putting forward its political case for the anl. However it is also a prime bit of popular front propaganda.


Iirc the IS used to quote Joe Jacob's book when they took a more militant physical ant-fascist stance in the early 70's. But after Lewisham 1977 and the change of name to the SWP, they adopted a more United Front to anti-fascism with Neil Kinnock et al in the ANL, and started quoting Phil Piratin as the way to operate.
They kept quiet about Morris Beckman's book, The 43 Group, when that was published in 1992.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 29, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Nope!


 

If you want I could send it to you (the Burleigh book I mean)? I doubt I'll be able to scan the whole thing and put it online myself?


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 30, 2013)

audiotech said:


> Wonder what the SS Division of Sprtdirect.com dress like?


 
One True Saxon surely


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 30, 2013)

I've uploaded the introduction and first chapter of the Burleigh book I was on about btw if anyone wants to have a read

there's a mistake on page 40 tho, the corner of the page is slightly folded over it should read "eugenic marriage counselling" and "destruction of..."

http://www.mediafire.com/view/529ajjqw65ky6d6/burleigh1.pdf 

http://www.mediafire.com/view/af6ablbt8g6a8yu/burleigh2.pdf - chapter 2 

i'll upload the rest tomorrow


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> If you want I could send it to you (the Burleigh book I mean)? I doubt I'll be able to scan the whole thing and put it online myself?


 
Thanks for the offer, pretty sure i have a copy somewhere around here though


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 30, 2013)

well i've started uploading the third chapter now so i reckon i'll do the whole thing. it's all in chapters tho rather than in one book!

here you go

http://www.mediafire.com/download/529ajjqw65ky6d6/burleigh1.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/af6ablbt8g6a8yu/burleigh2.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/98iwa9d5h9koh5f/burleigh3.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3ew23vwacrq2535/burleigh-4.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/xi6l227dm13m3av/burleigh-5.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/mas4l4fps2y13id/burleigh-6.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/833mdgro37cgtc8/burleigh-7.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/yktswj12dhsa2t5/burleigh-8.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/download/7n26vllopncyjfz/burleigh-9.pdf

I haven't uploaded the sources, index, or the bibliography though, if anyone wants I can do that as well. it's slightly annoying that he put it all at the end rather at the end of each chapter

i also don't know how to turn it around, i don't think i can do that on my scanner, is there a way to rotate the view etc on mediafire?


----------



## barney_pig (Jul 30, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Iirc the IS used to quote Joe Jacob's book when they took a more militant physical ant-fascist stance in the early 70's. But after Lewisham 1977 and the change of name to the SWP, they adopted a more United Front to anti-fascism with Neil Kinnock et al in the ANL, and started quoting Phil Piratin as the way to operate.
> They kept quiet about Morris Beckman's book, The 43 Group, when that was published in 1992.


By the time I was a member piratin's book was the main text, and Jacobs books 'flawed'. Beckman did speak at Marxism one year, but was dismissed as the "bish bash bosh" man


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 31, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> well i've started uploading the third chapter now so i reckon i'll do the whole thing. it's all in chapters tho rather than in one book!
> 
> here you go
> 
> ...


 
If you download it you can rotate it on adobe acrobat so people can read it properly anyway. Just means you can't read it online (unless you tilt your head to one side lol)


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 31, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> If you download it you can rotate it on adobe acrobat so people can read it properly anyway. Just means you can't read it online (unless you tilt your head to one side lol)


 

I did rotate it on adobe but when i uploaded it it seemed to revert back again


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 31, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I did rotate it on adobe but when i uploaded it it seemed to revert back again


 
Yeah it will do - but anyone who wants to read it can do if they download it and rotate it


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 31, 2013)

Yeah. Also forgot to say that the side near the spine of some of the pages towards the end are at times a bit hard to read, I can read them though but let me know if it's not and I'll upload them again


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jul 31, 2013)

BlackArab said:


> One True Saxon surely


 

That is not racist clothing is it?


----------



## Buckaroo (Jul 31, 2013)

CharlieChaplin said:


> That is not racist clothing is it?


 
Yours is.


----------



## CharlieChaplin (Jul 31, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Yours is.


 

Primark is racist?


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 31, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> the people who wrote that encyclopedia were only representing themselves, that wasn't the huge majority of people. that wasn't normal society, I don't believe there was _ever_ much in the way of working class support for Hitler or Nazism in this country. what there was was often undercut quite successful by groups like the communist party with their campaigns against evictions in London. there was loads of that sort of shit in the 30s like the author of just william writing about william and his mates tormenting a jewish man by pretending to be nazis, she also wrote stories with the implication that they shouldn't play with "common" boys and wrote about "savages from India". you have to think about what the audience for that stuff was in a time when there was a huge amount of repression against the working class and what was considered to be a real threat of a revolution.
> 
> the times wrote a puff piece in the 20s for the protocols, but it was only a small proportion of the populace that read that type of thing let alone believe it. I don't believe the majority of people in the country believed that shit. I don't think that it is true. In fact when Jewish refugees came to this country they were often almost shocked at how tolerant and accepting people were of them.


 

Re the protocols.....Ive always wondered why the early BNP ( Richard Edmonds) pushed Holocaust News. And I mean pushed it. It was always a staple at their meetings. In Manchester early 90's when I put an informer in the local branch it outsold BNP news. And their meetings which we bugged spent 80% of the time talking about Jews. I think this happened back in them days with much more frequency and it doesnt even beg the question of the ordinary membership being imbued with this stuff because the hierarchy of the BNP thought this kind of thing would have more resonance on the doorstep. Did they actually think the population would wear it. The protocols were pre WW2 for one. But its really got to be about individuals and what their heads were about. So while they were wasting valuable time on this they were taking their eye off the day job. Scroll on 25 years and with a different more identifiable enemy it really should be quids in.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 31, 2013)

the whole ZOG thing is too weird for the EDL types. unless your steeped in that anti-semitic conspiracy theory stuff, i reckon it was dropped for being too esoteric. altho edmonds was pictured with robinson who was wearing a JDL tshirt it seems.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 31, 2013)

anti-semitic holocaust denier and 'pro-zionist' ZDL supporter. EEEK!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2013)

Buckaroo said:


> Yours is.








"charlie chaplin" is second in from the right


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 31, 2013)

Lets have a fascist twat jew rant face page


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 31, 2013)

this one too


----------



## ddraig (Jul 31, 2013)

interesting council meeting in Birmingham tomorrow looking back at demo
lovely comments as usual underneath
https://www.facebook.com/events/668091616554358/


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> "charlie chaplin" is second in from the right


 

iirc the cadaverous Grand Moff Tarkin lookey-likey is GK Chestertones wankier cousin. Or it might be the fat bloke to the side of moselys right. One of them two anyway


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Lets have a fascist twat jew rant face page
> View attachment 38167


So that's two kormas, a madras, a chcken jalfrezi, fifteen chicken tikka masalas and 28 bottles of cobra


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> iirc the cadaverous Grand Moff Tarkin lookey-likey is GK Chestertones wankier cousin. Or it might be the fat bloke to the side of moselys right. One of them two anyway


 
God no.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> this one tooView attachment 38168


Looks like a pudgy lord lucan in the background


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 31, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> It's all in piratin's book, a favourite for the swp in putting forward its political case for the anl. However it is also a prime bit of popular front propaganda.


 
In the late 70s early 80s the SWP used to switch between Our Flag Stays Red and Joe Jacobs My Life in the Ghetto.

Interestingly enough the CP had the phrase  slum proletariat in the 30s and 40s to describe who the BUF recruited from.


----------



## tony.c (Jul 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


>


Judging by the looks on the faces of the three behind him, the Leader has just broken wind.


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 31, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Judging by the looks on the faces of the three behind him, the Leader has just broken wind.


 
British Union of Fartists....


----------



## Nice one (Jul 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> "charlie chaplin" is second in from the right


 
singlehandely reviving the british belt industry


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 31, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> "charlie chaplin" is second in from the right


 
The one immediately to the left of Mosley as you look at the photo is in fact a corpse - they dug him up for the photo. If you look closely you can see that his nose has already begun to decompose.


----------



## love detective (Jul 31, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Lets have a fascist twat jew rant face page


 

had to upload this specially!


----------



## tony.c (Jul 31, 2013)

^Reminds me of a retaliatory hit on some fash after they had attacked one of our guys in a pub, in Bethnal Green around 78/79. We had them cornered and were moving in when one started squealing 'Don't hit me, don't hit me - I'm a student, I'm in the Student Workers Party'. One of our guys said 'That's good, I hate students more than anyone' before laying into him.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jul 31, 2013)

Dunno if this has already been posted but the mosque boom guy's been arrested.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/tyneside-edl-member-arrested-tattoo-5389563


----------



## Limerick Red (Jul 31, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Dunno if this has already been posted but the mosque boom guy's been arrested.
> 
> http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/tyneside-edl-member-arrested-tattoo-5389563


fuckin madness


----------



## bignose1 (Jul 31, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Dunno if this has already been posted but the mosque boom guy's been arrested.
> 
> http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/tyneside-edl-member-arrested-tattoo-5389563


 


Frances Lengel said:


> Dunno if this has already been posted but the mosque boom guy's been arrested.
> 
> http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/tyneside-edl-member-arrested-tattoo-5389563


 
Think its been blown up out of all proportion


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jul 31, 2013)

I do. It's in poor taste but it's only a tattoo.


----------



## tony.c (Jul 31, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> fuckin madness


Seems a bit over the top, but if someone complained I suppose the police would have to question him at least. He did seem more of an idiot than a hardline racist in that Sky news clip and admitted it was stupid.They probably won't charge him though, unless it's 'pour encourager les autres'.


----------



## laptop (Jul 31, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> I do. It's in poor taste but it's only a tattoo.


 
It is, at the very least, incitement to a terrorist act.

And he can't complain he had only borrowed it off a mate out of interest...


----------



## Frances Lengel (Aug 1, 2013)

It's not incitement to anything, it's a depiction of a mosque exploding. The cause of the explosion isn't made explicit - It could be a gas leak rather than a bomb for all we know.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 1, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> It's not incitement to anything, it's a depiction of a mosque exploding. The cause of the explosion isn't made explicit - It could be a gas leak rather than a bomb for all we know.


----------



## andysays (Aug 1, 2013)

laptop said:


> It is, at the very least, incitement to a terrorist act.
> 
> And he can't complain he had only borrowed it off a mate out of interest...


 
It could be argued to be an incitement to a terrorist act, so it will be interesting to see if anyone attempts to make that argument within a legal framework, and if so, whether they succeed.

Not sure if either of those can be taken for granted just yet...


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 1, 2013)

i think the context of an 'exploding mosque' at an EDL rally gives it a more obvious meaning. bit over the top really but cant help a wee bit of schadenfreude at someone getting nicked after being such a nob. also, woman sacked after telling folk on facebook she was robbing hospital supplies for an upcoming EDL rally. crivvens!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2013)

They should remove it from him with a scalpel


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> It's not incitement to anything, it's a depiction of a mosque exploding. The cause of the explosion isn't made explicit - It could be a gas leak rather than a bomb for all we know.


 

oh sorry, was he on a march about gas safety or something and not an edl march??

turn it in softlad ffs


----------



## steeplejack (Aug 1, 2013)

From that brief TV thing, the boy is clearly troubled and one of the blunter knives in the drawer.

Only an absolute moron could get such a tattoo and not think through the consequences when it was, inevitably, discovered. A more sinister version of the knuckledragger who had 'Pork Chops' tattoed on him, as though any Muslim would spontaneously evaporate on seeing it...

but, come on, the EDL is enjoying a bounce because of poor Lee Rigby. Soon enough Rigby will be forgotten by all but his family, and the EDL will once again shrink back to the state it was in before his death. Rigby's death has provided an horrible focus for them but the 'leadership' remains abysmal, and self-serving, and the footsoldiers of a rank rotten calibre.

I think it right to keep an eye on the EDL but the monomania some on line have about them is just building up their profile rather than destroying it. The EDL's script is like that of a late Carry On film, without any of the gravitas.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Aug 1, 2013)

ddraig said:


> oh sorry, was he on a march about gas safety or something and not an edl march??
> 
> turn it in softlad ffs


 
Yeah but the guy's name's Shaun Reah. Which sounds a bit like Sharia to me. Point proved, I reckon.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 1, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> They should remove it from him with a scalpel


 

cheese grater


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 1, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> cheese grater


Ouch.......... make sure you sprinkle lots of salt on after, and rub it in...... wouldn't want an infection would we!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 1, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> cheese grater


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 1, 2013)

cynicaleconomy said:


>


----------



## Gingerman (Aug 1, 2013)

laptop said:


> It is, at the very least, incitement to a terrorist act.
> 
> And he can't complain he had only borrowed it off a mate out of interest...


 Shoulda went the whole hog and got TWAT tattooed on his forehead.......


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 1, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


>


 
I saw someone lose half their hand in a machine not too dissimilar to that once, a young lad fresh out of school. When we'd bandaged him up and were waiting for the ambulance he was screaming for his mum 

One of the most disturbing things I've ever seen


----------



## krink (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm only a few miles from where he lives and I know a few radgies round that way. I heard a rumour that the mosque thing was to cover up a Lidl tatoo he had done 'for a laugh'. I'll ak around see if anyone knows...


----------



## andysays (Aug 1, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I saw someone lose half their hand in a machine not too dissimilar to that once, a young lad fresh out of school. When we'd bandaged him up and were waiting for the ambulance he was screaming for his mum
> 
> One of the most disturbing things I've ever seen


 
Spindle Moulder?

Those things can be lethal, especially when, like in your photo, they're not properly guarded


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 1, 2013)

andysays said:


> Spindle Moulder?
> 
> Those things can be lethal, especially when, like in your photo, they're not properly guarded


 
Think this one was for architraving but it's the same principle. They're supposed to have a brake linked to the guard as well as a power cut-off so that when it's opened it stops immediately. Someone had lifted the guard off and let's just say the brake wasn't working, the power had been cut off but it kept spinning. The poor sod had his back to it and without thinking put his hand behind him to lean on the machine. Fucking horrible, no chance of retrieving his fingers either cos it just minced them 

I'm sure he got a hefty pay-out (we were just contractors there to do a one-off job on the compressed air lines beside the so I don't know for sure) but I doubt he'd have swapped the money for his hand if you'd asked him before


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> http://disillusionedmarxist.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/if-this-is-anti-fascism-i-am-no-anti-fascist/


Nice job.

The only bit I'm not so sure about is the criticism of the "Nothing British about the BNP" campaign though.

You say that " The title is instantly problematic because it promotes reactionary nationalism in the name of opposing fascism".  *Taken in isolation, I'd agree.*  But the context is a campaign aimed at a group of people that regard themselves as 'patriots'.  Their hot-button, the thing that will influence them, is an appeal to their sense of 'Britishness'.  The campaign is (was) therefore designed to use this lever, to reform their sense of this 'Britishness' to include diversity and difference, and thus distance them from a party that the tories saw as a potential threat.

I'm no fan of the concept of patriotism, whether or not it's (overtly) aligned with facism and xenophobia - but that's a more complicated message and would need to be delivered in a different way to a campaign like NBatBNP.  It was a quick-win strike, a simple message telling those on the margins that what they were flirting with was actually in opposition to that which they hold dear.  That's not a bad thing in itself - if viewed as a baby-step rather than mission-achieved.

My main problem with NBatBNP is that it was designed to increase the Tory vote.  The message itself I see as a valid attempt to chip away a bit of the mortar, even though it won't demolish the building.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2013)

The mortar of what though? By who? Aimed at who? It relies on and legitmises and normalises two things: 1) that there is a proper british way of doing things, i.e that there is a certain set of british beliefs and b) that the tory party embody these beliefs. It's pro-status quo (and it's the same arguments and approach that is being used to smear benefit claimants and immigrants *right now*) and shouldn''t be touched with a barge pole by anyone concerned with changing that status quo. Horror show stuff.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Aug 2, 2013)

krink said:


> I'm only a few miles from where he lives and I know a few radgies round that way. I heard a rumour that the mosque thing was to cover up a Lidl tatoo he had done 'for a laugh'. I'll ak around see if anyone knows...


 
any idea what street that is? I grew up in SS then moved north of the river. always had a soft spot for SS though, the sun seemed to linger a bit longer in the evenings.


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> The mortar of what though?


Mindset, beliefs, foundations, call it what you will.



butchersapron said:


> By who?


The tory PR contractors apparently.


butchersapron said:


> Aimed at who?


Really? Okay. Those floating between BNP and tory crosses on the ballot.


butchersapron said:


> It relies on and legitmises and normalises two things: 1) that there is a proper british way of doing things, i.e that there is a certain set of british beliefs and b) that the tory party embody these beliefs. It's pro-status quo (and it's the same arguments and approach that is being used to smear benefit claimants and immigrants *right now*) and shouldn''t be touched with a barge pole by anyone concerned with changing that status quo. Horror show stuff.


Yes. Hence "baby-step". You're veering, so I'll take you back to my opening, the context - You say that_ "The title is instantly problematic because it promotes reactionary nationalism in the name of opposing fascism"_


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2013)

I say no such thing. I say what I said above. And I repeat those points and add why the hell should I be concerned with pulling bnp voters to the tories on any basis at all,  not just a pro proper nationalist basis ? What next, pulling tory voters to labour ?


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I say no such thing.


No.

That's because the italicised quote was frogwoman's rather than yours.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> Nice job.
> 
> The only bit I'm not so sure about is the criticism of the "Nothing British about the BNP" campaign though.
> 
> ...


 
no.

it was aimed at presenting an image of a tory party as a party that was opposed to fascism and was not racist which as recent events have shown is a lie. and promoting the idea of fascism as something "british people" wouldn't do.

and i'm sorry but if you promote nationalism and say it's to oppose fascism it makes what you're doing pointless. especially when you're doing so from being in a position of a party that either holds state power or is the official opposition and therefore is hugely responsible for the conditions that create support for the far-right.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 2, 2013)

and i'm sorry but the whole "vote x to keep out the bnp" is bullshit.


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> no.
> 
> it was aimed at presenting an image of a tory party as a party that was opposed to fascism and was not racist which as recent events have shown is a lie. and promoting the idea of fascism as something "british people" wouldn't do.
> 
> and i'm sorry but if you promote nationalism and say it's to oppose fascism it makes what you're doing pointless. especially when you're doing so from being in a position of a party that either holds state power or is the official opposition and therefore is hugely responsible for the conditions that create support for the far-right.


Fair PoV, but the way your initial objection came across in the blog (to me) was nothing to do with the tories.
You say yourself that:


> The title ... implies that what is wrong with the BNP is that it is in some way ... “not British”


That, in itself, I see as a potential baby-step for some people that may be flirting with nationalism. Not a great view to be holding, but better the previous.  Someone able to view themselves as a 'patriot' whilst accepting difference is better than someone who sees their 'patriotism' as inextricably linked to the rejection of difference, IMO.  And like it or not, I suspect Damascene conversions are rare.


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> and i'm sorry but the whole "vote x to keep out the bnp" is bullshit.


 
Yes. I've made no reference to 'tactical' support of the fash at all, unless I've done so unintentionally.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> Fair PoV, but the way your initial objection came across in the blog (to me) was nothing to do with the tories.
> You say yourself that:
> 
> That, in itself, I see as a potential baby-step for some people that may be flirting with nationalism. Not a great view to be holding, but better the previous. Someone able to view themselves as a 'patriot' whilst accepting difference is better than someone who sees their 'patriotism' as inextricably linked to the rejection of difference, IMO. And like it or not, I suspect Damascene conversions are rare.


 
it's not though, it's actually saying that that stuff is ok. that the reason that the bnp are wrong is because it's "foreign", because their brand of racism is foreign and linking it with the nazis and that, it's emotional blackmail from the establishment and far-right voters will probably see right through it. it doesn't explain why it's wrong or anything and it's also implying that the BNP and the far-right are not english, ie "foreign" and that's what's wrong with it.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> Yes. I've made no reference to 'tactical' support of the fash at all, unless I've done so unintentionally.


 
i didn't say you did.

i think any anti-fascist campaign tho should engage with the actual politics of the thing though rather than say "it's not british" (ie it's something that's not done in this country, nazis, churchill and that sort of stuff) i also think that it's very hypocritical coming from a racist anti-immigrant party that's partially responsible for the growth of the far-right anyway.


----------



## Corax (Aug 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> it's not though, it's actually saying that that stuff is ok. that the reason that the bnp are wrong is because it's "foreign", because their brand of racism is foreign and linking it with the nazis and that, it's emotional blackmail from the establishment and far-right voters will probably see right through it. it doesn't explain why it's wrong or anything and it's also implying that the BNP and the far-right are not english, ie "foreign" and that's what's wrong with it.


When I parse that down to its nub I agree with the core sentiment - but the phrasing is different, and crucial. It's not about X being 'foreign', it's about anti-X being anti-British.

Sure, telling people that acceptance of diversity and difference, tolerance (I hate that usage of that word but please take it as it's popularly used), etc, are 'British' qualities may - to some - imply that those horrid foreigners lack those traits. But it's not _actually_ implicit.

All postboxes are red, but not everything red is a postbox. That kinda thing.

But if you can take a group of people that get misty-eyed at the mention of Nelson or Churchill, and put jump-leads between the bit of their brain that's patterned with the cross of St George and the bit that accepts difference, I can only see that as a good thing. As I said, it's not the end game. But it may be one less 'paki' or 'muzrat' getting a kicking or an earful. And the best case scenario is that it doesn't end there, and they eventually turn up on U75 giving me abuse for being so embarrassingly middle-class and naive about this sort of thing.



frogwoman said:


> i think any anti-fascist campaign tho should engage with the actual politics of the thing though rather than say "it's not british" (ie it's something that's not done in this country, nazis, churchill and that sort of stuff) i also think that it's very hypocritical coming from a racist anti-immigrant party that's partially responsible for the growth of the far-right anyway.


 
Absolutely. But it wasn't an ant-fascist campaign. It was a PR stunt by the tories.

Caveat/clarification: I'm not defending a tory campaign (vomits). I'm commenting on your analysis of it, iyswim - although that may be an unfair description given that it was only a couple of sentences in a much larger article. And the only reason I picked out that bit was that my response to the rest would merely have been 'yep'.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 3, 2013)

There's been infidels and scouse nationalists hanging around Wigan and Leigh all day today, anyone got any more information as what's going on? Loads of police from manchester gone over.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 3, 2013)

Surprise surprise the EDL News group is full of Zeitgeist moonbats


----------



## J Ed (Aug 3, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> There's been infidels and scouse nationalists hanging around Wigan and Leigh all day today, anyone got any more information as what's going on? Loads of police from manchester gone over.


 

Was organised for a while AFAIK


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 3, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Was organised for a while AFAIK


 
got any more details?


----------



## J Ed (Aug 3, 2013)

It's NWI organised according to the EDL on FB

https://www.facebook.com/edlwigandivision?fref=ts




> Lets give it one last push. can we all please share. Lets get as many patriots there as possible
> 
> The next Nwi demo will be on the 3rd August in Leigh to highlight the ever growing problems of mass immigration. We will be meeting in the Brittania pub, St Helens road, Leigh WN7 4HW. The public house will be open from 11am onwards.
> 
> At approx 1pm we will leave the meeting point and head out onto St Helens Road to begin our march. We will march up St Helens Road then over Leigh Bridge. We will then head Sraight over the cross roads onto Leigh Road from where we will then march past the bus station and via the Town Center. Once past the Town Centre we will head over to the town hall were speeches will be held.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 3, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Surprise surprise the EDL News group is full of Zeitgeist moonbats


 

tangentially related- it took me about a whole hour to get my head around EDL's pro-Israel stance before realising the ugly truth that they support Israel cos israel bombs muslims 

iirc that was one of the stated reasons for the NWI split as well. It deffo had nothing to do with regional rivalries and money either. Of course.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 3, 2013)

white phosphorous is better than suicide bombs apparently


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 3, 2013)

This facebook page is a veritable goldmine of anti-EDL stuff.

https://www.facebook.com/TravellersAgainstTheEdl


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 4, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> tangentially related- it took me about a whole hour to get my head around EDL's pro-Israel stance before realising the ugly truth that they support Israel cos israel bombs muslims
> 
> iirc that was one of the stated reasons for the NWI split as well. It deffo had nothing to do with regional rivalries and money either. Of course.


 

Surely it didn't take you an hour? REALLY?

All 3 reasons regarding the NWI split are correct of course.


----------



## trampie (Aug 4, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> tangentially related- it took me about a whole hour to get my head around EDL's pro-Israel stance before realising the ugly truth that they support Israel cos israel bombs muslims
> 
> iirc that was one of the stated reasons for the NWI split as well. It deffo had nothing to do with regional rivalries and money either. Of course.


 
The English Defence League supports Israel shocker hey !


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 4, 2013)

fuck off you racist tory


----------



## J Ed (Aug 4, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> tangentially related- it took me about a whole hour to get my head around EDL's pro-Israel stance before realising the ugly truth that they support Israel cos israel bombs muslims
> 
> iirc that was one of the stated reasons for the NWI split as well. It deffo had nothing to do with regional rivalries and money either. Of course.


 

Pretty sure that their views on Israel are about as well considered as their support for Khalistan secessionism


----------



## FNG (Aug 4, 2013)

I always thought it developed from ulster paramilitaries flying the Star of david, from where it was adopted by hooligan elements in the Rangers fanbase, then adopted by EDL casual's ect,there has always been more star of david flags at their ralllies than there are members of their Jewish Division at any rate.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 4, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> fuck off you racist tory


 
That appears to be aimed at trampie, and I was rather concerned to learn s/he could be a racist. So I had a medium size scan of attributed posts and couldn't find anything to demonstrate racism (or toryism for that matter)

Could you help me out with some sourced quotes please?

Ta.


----------



## Corax (Aug 4, 2013)

Anyone ID this 'patriot' assaulting* someone unprovoked?



*Legally speaking.  I realise it's not exactly a baseball bat to the knees.


----------



## Corax (Aug 4, 2013)

Oh my word... 

http://edltoons.wordpress.com/

Gah.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 5, 2013)

Ive been away in some remote place at weekend but was there an incident in Manchester where the SWP were attacked.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2013)

FNG said:


> I always thought it developed from ulster paramilitaries flying the Star of david, from where it was adopted by hooligan elements in the Rangers fanbase, then adopted by EDL casual's ect,there has always been more star of david flags at their ralllies than there are members of their Jewish Division at any rate.


 
thanks for the brief history. i didnt know this had been used by loyalists etc and co-opted by soccer types. as for SWP in manchester, about 40 infidels, casuals, etc managed to assemble in leigh where there was a bit of opposition and a bit of plod action. they could have been on the way to or from leigh. an easy target and a piss poor 'unifying national' demo.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 5, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That appears to be aimed at trampie, and I was rather concerned to learn s/he could be a racist. So I had a medium size scan of attributed posts and couldn't find anything to demonstrate racism (or toryism for that matter)
> 
> Could you help me out with some sourced quotes please?
> 
> Ta.


 
He was banned for antisemitism and he was whining about the pensions strikes being about greedy public sector workers. Walks, quacks etc.

CBA to search for quotes, you'll have to do that yourself.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2013)

FNG said:


> I always thought it developed from ulster paramilitaries flying the Star of david, from where it was adopted by hooligan elements in the Rangers fanbase, then adopted by EDL casual's ect,there has always been more star of david flags at their ralllies than there are members of their Jewish Division at any rate.


there is a zionist element to their nationalism but it's basically because Israel kills muslims, it also goes along with their whole churchill/second world war nationalist fetishism I think (which is why calling them nazis is a bit daft most of the time, and also kind of links in to what I was saying about the whole "nothing british" thing - the EDL's nationalism isn't Nazism, they'd consider Nazism to have nothing to do with "english traditions" whatever)


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Ive been away in some remote place at weekend but was there an incident in Manchester where the SWP were attacked.


 
NF and that loser jock shearer from oldham.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Surprise surprise the EDL News group is full of Zeitgeist moonbats


they've got no fucking way to claim they're against all racism then.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 5, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> thanks for the brief history. i didnt know this had been used by loyalists


I stand to be corrected by the Irish/Republican people on here, but iirc it goes back to the days of the Hunger strikes when Palestinians expressed support for Bobby Sands and the others on the hunger strike. Republicans supported the Palestinian struggles and flew the Palestinian flag at marches, and Celtic supporters did the same at matches. The loyalists took to flying the Israeli flag in response and to be provocative.
View attachment 38597


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

tony.c It's not like loyalists have found it difficult to be provocative even without waving the flag of the zionist entity


----------



## tony.c (Aug 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> tony.c It's not like loyalists have found it difficult to be provocative even without waving the flag of the zionist entity


I know, just trying to tell Matalesta the history of how they adopted the Israeli flag, as I understand it anyway.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 5, 2013)




----------



## tony.c (Aug 5, 2013)




----------



## pissflaps (Aug 5, 2013)

SPORT AR TROOPZ! (except the ones who don't agree with me)

kevin, you wouldn't last half a fucking day in the army.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> SPORT AR TROOPZ! (except the ones who don't agree with me)
> 
> kevin, you wouldn't last half a fucking day in the army.


 
here he is trying to march:


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I stand to be corrected by the Irish/Republican people on here, but iirc it goes back to the days of the Hunger strikes when Palestinians expressed support for Bobby Sands and the others on the hunger strike. Republicans supported the Palestinian struggles and flew the Palestinian flag at marches, and Celtic supporters did the same at matches. The loyalists took to flying the Israeli flag in response and to be provocative.
> View attachment 38597View attachment 38598View attachment 38600


 

ages ago when they started flying the star of david, we suggested it was more provocation than actual support. however, with the exposure of alan lake/ayling and mr tommys romance with pamela 'stella' geller the ZOG nuts started creating about it and it was widely suggested there was an ulterior motive behind EDL support of Israel: ayling/geller influence on any ideological future and meanwhile just tell the foot and mouth soldiers that Israel is the only country fighting against muslims etc to get em onside. that was the general rumour etc. which in part sounded feasible.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 5, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> ages ago when they started flying the star of david, we suggested it was more provocation than actual support. however, with the exposure of alan lake/ayling and mr tommys romance with pamela 'stella' geller the ZOG nuts started creating about it and it was widely suggested there was an ulterior motive behind EDL support of Israel: ayling/geller influence on any ideological future and meanwhile just tell the foot and mouth soldiers that Israel is the only country fighting against muslims etc to get em onside. that was the general rumour etc. which in part sounded feasible.


 

There's definitely a lot of influence of Zionist 'counter-jihad' ideology on the EDL, you only need to spend five minutes looking through the FB timelines of EDL organisers to realise that because it's full of stuff from Robert Spencer, Douglas Murray and Pam Geller.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2013)

yeah, the only clear ideological stance is imported from outside of the EDL. tommy has been well played on this and it has caused a lot of dissatisfaction amongst the ranks, the north south split is partly over this - then not being racist enough, money, ego and being on the telly.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 5, 2013)

I heard on Radio 4 news this morning that it's been found that the Boston Bomber who died had been reading Right Wing US stuff as well as Jihadist websites.

*Tamelan Tsarnaev 'had right-wing extremist literature'*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23541341


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2013)

That's what i expect Panorama to be arguing in their latest SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET!!!! program tonight (that's where this claim has come from btw).


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 5, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> NF and that loser jock shearer from oldham.




How things have changed..seeing that happen in Manchester City Centre...yards away from where the NF were driven into a 30 year + hiatus isnt pleasant viewing. I doubt that what happened will be come a regular feature....all of them out of towners but itll be felt personal by some of the older lot ...I know I do.


----------



## treelover (Aug 5, 2013)

Some of the public seem to think its a laugh...

job done for the NF though


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

FNG said:


> I always thought it developed from ulster paramilitaries flying the Star of david, from where it was adopted by hooligan elements in the Rangers fanbase, then adopted by EDL casual's ect,there has always been more star of david flags at their ralllies than there are members of their Jewish Division at any rate.


 
Some small oppressed groups have an affinity with each other, likewise some colonialist powers have an affinity to each other.


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> thanks for the brief history. i didnt know this had been used by loyalists etc and co-opted by soccer types. as for SWP in manchester, about 40 infidels, casuals, etc managed to assemble in leigh where there was a bit of opposition and a bit of plod action. they could have been on the way to or from leigh. an easy target and a piss poor 'unifying national' demo.


 
The Palestinians are a small group of people living under oppression on their own territory which has strong historical resonances for Irish, Welsh and Scottish people.


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I stand to be corrected by the Irish/Republican people on here, but iirc it goes back to the days of the Hunger strikes when Palestinians expressed support for Bobby Sands and the others on the hunger strike. Republicans supported the Palestinian struggles and flew the Palestinian flag at marches, and Celtic supporters did the same at matches. The loyalists took to flying the Israeli flag in response and to be provocative.
> View attachment 38597View attachment 38598View attachment 38600


 
Wales rugby union team are about to embark on their third full tour of the Pacific Islands in 25 years, although they expect to lose money on the tour, Wales feel a common bond with other small groups and nations and want to help such people and extend the hand of friendship [although there has been some brutal battles on the pitch in the past], NZ, SA, Aus, Eng and the like don't seem to careless about them, you won't find them doing a full tour out there.
In football Wales have even played an international against the Basques [Giggs scored the only goal], i think the Basques played a League of Ireland team at one time as well, you wont find colonialist powers like Spain or England doing that.
Some very senior Welsh politicians support the Palestinian cause not many senior English politicians would do that. 

In the recent UNESCO Palestinian membership vote the only independent Celtic country Ireland voted for Palestinian inclusion [along with virtually the rest of the world], an English lead Britain didn't vote with the rest of the world.

The Republic of Ireland was neutral in WW11, a problem as some of them obviously seen it at the time was should they support one lot of imperialists they had been fighting for years across the Irish sea or another lot of imperialists from mainland Europe ?, so they stayed neutral, Ho Chi Minh had a similar problem during and after WW11, the French, the Japanese and then the Americans, he worked/fought to get rid of the lot of them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> Some very senior Welsh politicians support the Palestinian cause not many senior English politicians would do that..


only stupid wankers hold up politicians as people to be emulated.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> The Palestinians are a small group of people living under oppression on their own territory which has strong historical resonances for Irish, Welsh and Scottish people.


why does the territory of the palestinians have such strong historical resonances for irish, welsh and scottish people?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I heard on Radio 4 news this morning that it's been found that the Boston Bomber who died had been reading Right Wing US stuff as well as Jihadist websites.
> 
> *Tamelan Tsarnaev 'had right-wing extremist literature'*
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23541341


tbh i would be surprised if many people posting on this thread didn't have some right-wing extremist literature somewhere at home


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 5, 2013)

i got loads! i needed it to research the history of anti-fascism a lot of which is embedded in the history of fascism. a lot of it is very very dull. especially that ZOG cack.


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> why does the territory of the palestinians have such strong historical resonances for irish, welsh and scottish people?


 
Being forced to live as a second class citizen in your own homeland occupied by foreign invaders that force their own laws and rules on you, may be centuries ago for the Celtic peoples but there is still an empathy towards other small groups wanting freedom and self determination.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2013)

What Celtic people? Claiming that Celts are subjugated is like saying Mesopatamians and Assyrians are.


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> What Celtic people? Claiming that Celts are subjugated is like saying Mesopatamians and Assyrians are.


 
The ones that identify themselves as such and are commonly referred to as such.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> Being forced to live as a second class citizen in your own homeland occupied by foreign invaders that force their own laws and rules on you, may be centuries ago for the Celtic peoples but there is still an empathy towards other small groups wanting freedom and self determination.


but that's not what you said. you said "The Palestinians are a small group of people living under oppression on their own territory which has strong historical resonances for Irish, Welsh and Scottish people." - you said it is the territory which has strong assocations for the scots etc not the plight of the palestinians


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> but that's not what you said. you said "The Palestinians are a small group of people living under oppression on their own territory which has strong historical resonances for Irish, Welsh and Scottish people." - you said it is the territory which has strong assocations for the scots etc not the plight of the palestinians


 
No you have read it wrong  , i didn't mean a patch of land in the Middle East has historical resonances for Irish, Welsh and Scots, i mean't that the situation the Palestinians find themselves in at the hands of an occupying power is similar to what the Irish, Welsh and Scots have found themselves in in the past.

Do try and keep up.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2013)

I think that's a rather offensive comparison


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> I think that's a rather offensive comparison


 
Why ?, do you know what the invaders did in the Celtic countries ?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2013)

I thought Tramps Piss had been banned for racism.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> Why ?, do you know what the invaders did in the Celtic countries ?


Did you know what the Incas did to the people they conquered?


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> I think that's a rather offensive comparison


trampie is a dick but i don't see what's offensive about it. welsh people were being beaten in school for speaking welsh and their language was being suppressed as recently as 60 years ago. and given the history of Ireland i can well understand an irish person feeling sympathetic to what's happened to the palestinians


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> trampie is a dick but i don't see what's offensive about it. welsh people were being beaten in school for speaking welsh and their language was being suppressed as recently as 60 years ago. and given the history of Ireland i can well understand an irish person feeling sympathetic to what's happened to the palestinians


 
The point doesn't have to be made in agreement with someone whose reason for posting the comparison is simple racist trolling though. Racist trolling _is_ offensive.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> The point doesn't have to be made in agreement with someone whose reason for posting the comparison is simple racist trolling though. Racist trolling _is_ offensive.


yep you're right. as his is bollocks about english/jewish people which hes probably gonna start up again


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> trampie is a dick but i don't see what's offensive about it. welsh people were being beaten in school for speaking welsh and their language was being suppressed as recently as 60 years ago. and given the history of Ireland i can well understand an irish person feeling sympathetic to what's happened to the palestinians


Fair point, I was just disputing his idea that the Celtic people still exist and I'm still unclear as to how far we can go back before it all becomes irrelevant


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

Spymaster said:


> I thought Tramps Piss had been banned for racism.


 
Unfounded hence the immediate return, bullies getting the wrong end of the stick and ganging up.
If urban wants a private club for narrow minded birds of a feather then fine, posters can then have the same conversations over and over and come to the same conclusions and have no understanding why there are opposing views to their own out there, i have no agenda and i think its good for message boards to be a broad church within a certain field, eg urban likes to think it has a left bent, i would dispute that, but that is how many of its posters seems to like to portray themselves, so fine urban attracting posters from that field, but if its to be narrowed down even further from that to people that support only the same narrow causes and ban or not make everyone else welcome then it will be a lesser place for it and nothing more than a clique for a group of friends.
I hope urban stays vibrant as it can be a good place to discuss ideas, i hope it stays like that and the cliques don't take over.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Fair point, I was just disputing his idea that the Celtic people still exist - we're all


well yes, and "race" doesn't exist anyway


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> i have no agenda.


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Fair point, I was just disputing his idea that the Celtic people still exist - we're all


 
People from Ireland, Wales and Scotland are commonly called Celtic that's all.

I'm glad i didn't have to tell you about males including children from of about the age of 8 being taken from a village in Ireland and well, lets leave it at that shall we or a defeated army in Wales doing unspeakable things to women and children and places of worship, the first incident mentioned was only about 200 hundred years ago as well so not that long ago.

You mentioned comparisons didn't you Orang Utan !


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> People from Ireland, Wales and Scotland are commonly called Celtic that's all.
> 
> I'm glad i didn't have to tell you about males including children from of about the age of 8 being taken from a village in Ireland and well, lets leave it at that shall we or a defeated army in Wales doing unspeakable things to women and children and places of worship, the first incident mentioned was only about 200 hundred years ago as well so not that long ago.
> 
> You mentioned comparisons didn't you !


what has this got to do with the celtic people still existing, or people in England today (many of whom will have been descended from scottish or welsh people) being responsible for what happened 200 years ago !


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

You will often find groups that seem similar to some but they are often on opposing sides and take a different view on many topics for centuries, the Balkans and N.Ireland are examples.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 5, 2013)

Bennie on the loose


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> No you have read it wrong  , i didn't mean a patch of land in the Middle East has historical resonances for Irish, Welsh and Scots, i mean't that the situation the Palestinians find themselves in at the hands of an occupying power is similar to what the Irish, Welsh and Scots have found themselves in in the past.
> 
> Do try and keep up.


you're not very good at this reading and writing thing, are you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> You will often find groups that seem similar to some but they are often on opposing sides and take a different view on many topics for centuries, the Balkans and N.Ireland are examples.


outwardly you could be taken for someone with a grain of wit, but this appearance is dispelled as soon as you open your mouth, or - on the internet - as soon as you put hand to keyboard


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> Being forced to live as a second class citizen in your own homeland occupied by foreign invaders that force their own laws and rules on you, may be centuries ago for the Celtic peoples but there is still an empathy towards other small groups wanting freedom and self determination.


centuries ago for the celtic peoples? like the basques you mean, or the irish?


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

An insight has been given into why certain groups feel an affinity with each other as some posters seemed to be struggling with the whys and wherefores.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> An insight has been given into why certain groups feel an affinity with each other as some posters seemed to be struggling with the whys and wherefores, i was glad to be of service to such people.


 the only real way you can be of service to everyone here is to bog off and never darken the urban door again


----------



## trampie (Aug 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> the only real way you can be of service to everyone here is to bog off and never darken the urban door again


 
But that would give an unopposed free run to the members of the clique.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

trampie said:


> But that would give an unopposed free run to the members of the clique.


 i see. it appears you've outed yourself as a detective-boy stay-behind login.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 5, 2013)

now THAT would be funny


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 5, 2013)

Not enough cunts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Not enough cunts.


 that's because he's trying to disguise himself.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2013)

DB wasn't a racist.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh i would be surprised if many people posting on this thread didn't have some right-wing extremist literature somewhere at home


I don't.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 5, 2013)

http://scriptonitedaily.wordpress.c...-for-disabled-the-racistvan-racial-profiling/

More shit. If the RacistVan is enough to get people wringing their hands about us sleepwalking into fascism then fuck knows how they'll react if the British state does go that way. I don't think blog posts like that would be tolerated for a start.

Also uses Umberto Eco's 14 points of Fascism, which i'm sure has been dealt with before on here, but is also a load of shit.


----------



## Corax (Aug 5, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I stand to be corrected by the Irish/Republican people on here, but iirc it goes back to the days of the Hunger strikes when Palestinians expressed support for Bobby Sands and the others on the hunger strike. Republicans supported the Palestinian struggles and flew the Palestinian flag at marches, and Celtic supporters did the same at matches. The loyalists took to flying the Israeli flag in response and to be provocative.
> View attachment 38597View attachment 38598View attachment 38600


 
Would be interesting to know how that went down in the areas of the US which were supporting the IRA, yet fully pro-Israel.


----------



## FNG (Aug 5, 2013)

tony.c said:


> I stand to be corrected by the Irish/Republican people on here, but iirc it goes back to the days of the Hunger strikes when Palestinians expressed support for Bobby Sands and the others on the hunger strike. Republicans supported the Palestinian struggles and flew the Palestinian flag at marches, and Celtic supporters did the same at matches. The loyalists took to flying the Israeli flag in response and to be provocative.
> View attachment 38597View attachment 38598View attachment 38600


 


 The unionist response came much later, it wasn't until around 2002 that the phenomenon was noted in the mainstream media,at a time when both the oslo accords and the GFA were seemingly at an impasse,the state of Israel was systematically using the IDF to smash the Infrastructure of the nascent PA.Basically it was a reiteration of an old sentiment to "Send In The Troops"


----------



## bamalama (Aug 5, 2013)

The dup have had links with israel since the late seventies early eighties as far as i know.There's a famous photo of peter robinson brandishing an ak47 on one of his visits to israel as a guest of the israeli govt from 1984.
The story goes these were fact finding trips to gain "security" knowledge from the israelis i.e. youse have done a good job with containing  palestinian dissent, maybe the same tactics'll work in "our wee province".
Also people tend to forget that the dup and their cohorts are christian fundamentalists and this is the ideological foundation for much of their policies/politics,so maybe there's a cross over with their support for the state of israel, as it exists, there.


----------



## FNG (Aug 5, 2013)

There was always the potential for shared intelligence on the movements of IRA men to training camps in lebanon to consider. 

What piques my curiosity about that Peter Robinson photo though is
The AK47 is not the first weapon one would associate with the state of Israel though? It's an odd choice of weapon to select for propaganda purposes on a fact finding mission.


----------



## bamalama (Aug 5, 2013)

FNG said:


> There was always the potential for shared intelligence on the movements of IRA men to training camps in lebanon to consider.
> 
> What piques my curiosity about that Peter Robinson photo though is
> The AK47 is not the first weapon one would associate with the state of Israel though? It's an odd choice of weapon to select for propaganda purposes on a fact finding mission.


Aye i've thought that.Not sure it was a propaganda photo though,i think it leaked out...it's all a wee bit shady,and considering the paramilitary stuff they were up to at the time,which was a disaster for them,maybe not so odd.Must do some more research around it


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2013)

Galils don't look as iconic


----------



## bamalama (Aug 5, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Galils don't look as iconic


I had to google that,another piece of useless info to clog up my useless brain with,cheers


----------



## FNG (Aug 5, 2013)

There's a bit in the Michael stone book about the milltown massacre about South Africa paying for Industrial Espionage on missile technology from the shipyards with Israeli stocks of AKs captured during the six day war around that time frame.

Total coincidence I would have thought.


----------



## Limerick Red (Aug 6, 2013)

FNG said:


> The unionist response came much later, it wasn't until around 2002 that the phenomenon was noted in the mainstream media,at a time when both the oslo accords and the GFA were seemingly at an impasse,the state of Israel was systematically using the IDF to smash the Infrastructure of the nascent PA.Basically it was a reiteration of an old sentiment to "Send In The Troops"


As I remember someone saying at the time, if we were flying Oasis flags, Gods choosen people would stick up Blur ones.


----------



## tony.c (Aug 6, 2013)

bamalama said:


> The dup have had links with israel since the late seventies early eighties as far as i know.There's a famous photo of peter robinson brandishing an ak47 on one of his visits to israel as a guest of the israeli govt from 1984.
> The story goes these were fact finding trips to gain "security" knowledge from the israelis i.e. youse have done a good job with containing palestinian dissent, maybe the same tactics'll work in "our wee province".
> Also people tend to forget that the dup and their cohorts are christian fundamentalists and this is the ideological foundation for much of their policies/politics,so maybe there's a cross over with their support for the state of israel, as it exists, there.


The loyalist hierarchy may well have had links with Israel since the late 70s or even earlier, particularly those who were in Stormont, but I don't think that the Star of David flag was flown by  rank & file loyalists on the streets or terraces until younger nationalists started flying the Palestinian flags in solidarity with Palestinian youth who were engaged with the Intifada uprising. Nationalist youth saw a parallel with their own struggle. As LR said above, the loyalist rank and file would then support the opposition - 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' syndrome or just bloody contrariness rather than ideological support for Zionism.
Obviously a dilemma for UK Nazis who support loyalists but are also anti-Semitic (and anti-Islamic).


----------



## laptop (Aug 6, 2013)

There were the painted kerbstones, as well as the flags. Which were first?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 6, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> As I remember someone saying at the time, if we were flying Oasis flags, Gods choosen people would stick up Blur ones.


 
quality edit


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2013)

laptop said:


> There were the painted kerbstones, as well as the flags. Which were first?


Only one way to find out...


----------



## laptop (Aug 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Only one way to find out...


 




?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 6, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> http://scriptonitedaily.wordpress.c...-for-disabled-the-racistvan-racial-profiling/
> 
> Also uses Umberto Eco's 14 points of Fascism, which i'm sure has been dealt with before on here, but is also a load of shit.


 
oh I dunno, point 14:
..."All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning."
I draw your attention to 99.9% of EDL facebook postings!


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 6, 2013)

to Umberto 'I've et a thesaurus' Eco most peoples vocab must appear limited. Example: Focaults Pendulum


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 6, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> to Umberto 'I've et a thesaurus' Eco most peoples vocab must appear limited. Example: Focaults Pendulum


not being funny but this "10 similarities of the UK to fascism" or whatever it is and anything similar like that really boils my piss. It also assumes that fascism is the only form of authoritarian or even racist/genocidal government and that if a country's not fascist then it's doing all right.


----------



## Limerick Red (Aug 6, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> quality edit


 its nice to be nice.


----------



## bamalama (Aug 6, 2013)

laptop said:


> There were the painted kerbstones, as well as the flags. Which were first?


 
Doesn't matter.Getting/forcing the local youth to paint flag stones was about the level that loyalist community workers/enforcers were at on their release under the gfa though,see also nicking/acquiring pallets for their wickerman bonfires on the twelfth


----------



## smokedout (Aug 7, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Also uses Umberto Eco's 14 points of Fascism, which i'm sure has been dealt with before on here, but is also a load of shit.


 
in the comments she writes



> I agree that (and this is partly to do with the cult of tradition section above) most do not know what these words mean. That’s why I think it’s really useful to set out what we mean by those words before we use them.


 
in other words I don't know what fascism means, but I want to write a piece saying the UK is fascist because it will get lots of hits, so I'll just make up what fascism means based on a crude understanding of an excerpt of an essay by a novelist


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> to Umberto 'I've et a thesaurus' Eco most peoples vocab must appear limited. Example: Focaults Pendulum


 
dan brown for graduates.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 7, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> NF and that loser jock shearer from oldham.





I'm all for booting a fascist in the face now and again, but does anyone else find posh whiny students bleating "Nartsee scum off our street" over and over slightly cringeworthy, and possibly counter-productive?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2013)

i fucking hate that 'naartzi scum' chant. its stoopid! 'Nae Nazis' is well better!


----------



## Corax (Aug 7, 2013)

Especially when the group in question isn't made up of Nazis...

If people do insist on chanting then I dunno why people don't just say it how it is and call them _racist_ scum.  Fuck all room for denial there, and likely to resonate much more with the man on the Clapham omnibus too I woulda thought.

All chanting sounds whiny and shit in the end though.  Primaeval growling, guttural yells, and menacing silences are the way to go.  With the odd show tune thrown in just to stir things up.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 7, 2013)

Fascist scum better?  I'm all for yelling at em.
Though when i went to that counterdemo in Whitehall, the posh masked black-clad anarkids who like bating the cops as well as the EDL were the first to run away and hide behind the cops when the bottles started flying.


----------



## Corax (Aug 7, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Fascist scum better? I'm all for yelling at em


Depends if the particular group are actually fash rather than just racist wankers I would have thought.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 7, 2013)

Are you saying the EDL aren't fascists?


----------



## Corax (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm saying not all racists are fascists. Certain tories, for eg.

But re the EDL - I'm not sure the EDL themselves know what they are, or possess enough political coherence to deserve a label of that sort.

The racism's much clearer ground certainly. Little room for debate there. And like I said, I believe that racism resonates with the average passer-by much more strongly than fash/nazi. Exceptions exist of course, including people of a much older generation.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 7, 2013)

A lot of them are clueless, but their leadership is fascist, their actions are fascist and they are in all respects a fascist organisation.


----------



## bamalama (Aug 7, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> Are you saying the EDL aren't fascists?


Some are,but as an organisation they're an incoherent bunch.Anyway the people in the video above are nf and the whole thing looks like a bit of a side show,entertainment for the general public going about their business,not effective anti-fascism.
The swp always look surprised/ineffective when these people turn up.So,no lessons learned there then...


----------



## bamalama (Aug 7, 2013)

Orang Utan said:


> A lot of them are clueless, but their leadership is fascist, their actions are fascist and they are in all respects a fascist organisation.


A complete misunderstanding of what fascism is imo...your hearts in the right place though


----------



## audiotech (Aug 7, 2013)

_The British Far Right in Transition._


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 8, 2013)




----------



## Ranbay (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm out it's all shit..... but im still going


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 8, 2013)

that pretty much sums up 2013 so far.


----------



## freshnero (Aug 8, 2013)

Going to get shot down for this
I`m in no way rascist never spoken a anrgy racist word
Always felt closer to my black mates growing up as we were all outsiders.And growing up my house was full of hate for londoners being irish.Now days all friends are middle class
But sometimes the hate and the way the EDL are looked down
Its easy to forget that they are pretty much all racists
Because they remind me so much of the people i grew up with 
And the laughing at them seems so smug
And i cant help but think the laughing at them was always there it just need an excuse

sorry for the writing my dyslexia is quite bad


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 8, 2013)

That's a point that's already been made several times on this thread. Why are you 'going to be shot down' for making it?


----------



## Corax (Aug 8, 2013)

freshnero said:


> Going to get shot down for this
> I`m in no way rascist never spoken a anrgy racist word
> Always felt closer to my black mates growing up as we were all outsiders.And growing up my house was full of hate for londoners being irish.Now days all friends are middle class
> But sometimes the hate and the way the EDL are looked down
> ...


 


SpineyNorman said:


> That's a point that's already been made several times on this thread. Why are you 'going to be shot down' for making it?


 
Aye.  Sounds a fair and honest reflection to me.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 9, 2013)

cynicaleconomy said:


> I'm all for booting a fascist in the face now and again, but does anyone else find posh whiny students bleating "Nartsee scum off our street" over and over slightly cringeworthy, and possibly counter-productive?


 

Yes, it just feels awful. Like the behaviour you would expect in a playground or something.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Aug 10, 2013)

oops the main EDL FB page has gone...


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> oops the main EDL FB page has gone...


 
We will be temporarily closing this page at 10pm this evening to enable us to get up to date. We will re-open tomorrow, Many thanks for your patience during this time. English Defence League NSE! (4)


----------



## emanymton (Aug 10, 2013)

Apparently there is call to get lots of people down to market Street today, beyond the SWP. Can't see them turning up again though.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2013)

> Lorenzo 'Obi' Abadinas
> This is only temporary, BUT ...
> EDL Biggest like page - Down
> EDL Biggest group(EDL Newcastle) Down
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 10, 2013)

What about big jim? Did he buy it


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2013)

EDL Support Group via (EDL) English Defence League
*We were alerted, last night, to the fact that Anon were going to spam all our pages with porn. A message was sent out to all admins to close their pages and as far as we are aware only one page got caught out. They failed miserably this time but here is a list of all pages that they intended to spam with porn so if your on any of these pages help your admins out by keeping an eye on them as they can't be there 24/7 (2)*


http://pastebin.com/jMJKWiPE


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Aug 12, 2013)

Funny............. http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/i...filmed-at-an-edl-rally?utm_source=vicetwitter


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Aug 12, 2013)

Don't really like the video as it seems to be in the line of anti-EDL material that attacks how they dress/look rather than their politics, but I gotta say that tune is huge. Funky as hell.


----------



## Corax (Aug 12, 2013)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Don't really like the video as it seems to be in the line of anti-EDL material that attacks how they dress/look rather than their politics, but I gotta say that tune is huge. Funky as hell.


 
I can see what you mean.  But at the same time, if you're going to have a storyline involving EDL members then the people playing them have to be identifiable as such, and that's going to require picking an stereotype.  If they were dressed in dinner jackets, or as hipsters, or in leathers, then the narrative just wouldn't make sense and the video wouldn't work.  They may have exaggerated the burberry etc though I grant you.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2013)

If we're going to have people making daft videos that push stereotypes i don't agree with that say more about the makers prejudice then they need to at least make daft videos that push stereotypes i don't agree with that say more about the makers prejudice in order to make daft videos that push stereotypes i don't agree with that say more about the makers prejudice then they need to at least make daft videos that push stereotypes i don't agree with that say more about the makers prejudice in order to blah blah

Why do you need to come up with a stereotype to portray authenticity? That's one thing guaranteed not to.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 12, 2013)

jesus wept, my head hurts just from reading this page alone!


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Aug 12, 2013)

Corax said:


> I can see what you mean. But at the same time, if you're going to have a storyline involving EDL members then the people playing them have to be identifiable as such, and that's going to require picking an stereotype. If they were dressed in dinner jackets, or as hipsters, or in leathers, then the narrative just wouldn't make sense and the video wouldn't work. They may have exaggerated the burberry etc though I grant you.


 
I don't disagree with that, but I think for those reasons the video is not politically helpful. Of course, it's not supposed to be, its been designed to go viral and help push the track. I don't think opponents of EDL would do well to promote the video though as it appeals to uphelpful prejudices. That said, I just shared the video on fb cos i really like the tune, but I wrote a disclaimer stating that I disaproved of the video.


----------



## Mrak (Aug 12, 2013)

How should the EDL be portrayed in a music video?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2013)

Off you go.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 12, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Funny............. http://noisey.vice.com/en_uk/blog/i...filmed-at-an-edl-rally?utm_source=vicetwitter


----------



## cantsin (Aug 12, 2013)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I don't disagree with that, but I think for those reasons the video is not politically helpful. Of course, it's not supposed to be, its been designed to go viral and help push the track. I don't think opponents of EDL would do well to promote the video though as it appeals to uphelpful prejudices. That said, I just shared the video on fb cos i really like the tune, but I wrote a disclaimer stating that I disaproved of the video.


 

i cant imagine 'sharing a a video' that I 'disaproved' of politically just cos I liked the (generic/retro house banger) tune....but then i can't imagine 'dissaproving' of a video cos the EDL are portrayed drinking a few shandies and wearing Burberry


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Aug 12, 2013)

cantsin said:


> i cant imagine 'sharing a a video' that I 'disaproved' of politically just cos I liked the (generic/retro house banger) tune....but then i can't imagine 'dissaproving' of a video cos the EDL are portrayed drinking a few shandies and wearing Burberry


 
good for you.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 13, 2013)

This might be slightly off topic but I keep thinking about this brilliant piece aimed at black working-class Americans. I think that the tone of it works pretty well, and I can't help that feel that something similar would be really effective aimed at working-class Brits who are potentially sympathetic to the ideas of the EDL. A piece could address some of the myths that are put about by the EDL like Muslims being exempt from the bedroom tax for example, and linking those myths to a discussion of genuine and decent concerns that people have with capitalism that are exploited by groups like the EDL.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Aug 14, 2013)

Nobody even wears burberry anymore.


----------



## treelover (Aug 14, 2013)

J Ed said:


> This might be slightly off topic but I keep thinking about this brilliant piece aimed at black working-class Americans. I think that the tone of it works pretty well, and I can't help that feel that something similar would be really effective aimed at working-class Brits who are potentially sympathetic to the ideas of the EDL. A piece could address some of the myths that are put about by the EDL like Muslims being exempt from the bedroom tax for example, and linking those myths to a discussion of genuine and decent concerns that people have with capitalism that are exploited by groups like the EDL.


 
That's a great pamphlet/article, learnt quite a lot from it, (till the Marxist exegesis at the end) going to send it to some friends who accept C/Theories, etc.

one is that in many ways it is a complete world view, like Marxism or other isms with grand narratives on explaining the world.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 14, 2013)

Mrak said:
			
		

> How should the EDL be portrayed in a music video?



With bad teeth.


----------



## Red Storm (Aug 14, 2013)




----------



## Limerick Red (Aug 14, 2013)

Red Storm said:


>



This is the one prior to that gig, that pinkham and diddyman are up on now?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2013)

Where is this from?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2013)

Who id's who here and why?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 14, 2013)

Red Storm said:


>





Have you got any vids of paint drying?


----------



## cantsin (Aug 14, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Nobody even wears burberry anymore.


 

a quick search in google images for EDL Burberry suggests they still do, a lot


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Aug 14, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> This is the one prior to that gig, that pinkham and diddyman are up on now?



Yep ; Bold Street,  Liverpool.  And person highlighted is the Diddymon. I think it was sentencing day for him and others as a result of this assault on a musician, his girlfriend and father.  No idea of what the sentences are, as away from the city at the minute.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2013)

Where is this cctv coming from? There is at least two lots of it. From where?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2013)

The defence?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 14, 2013)

it says in the comments that they are entitled to it so presume so

e2a - the comments, almost at the bottom, if you watch it on youtube that is


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2013)

Ta. Entitled to see and respond doesn't mean put on youtube (not suggesting that you are ddraig). Who is on trial here? Because someone could be in big trouble here.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 14, 2013)

no exactly
reckon they could get in shit for it too, specially for the 'uncuff me bitch' crap on top of the gloating


----------



## J Ed (Aug 14, 2013)

http://thebackbencher.co.uk/the-bnp-danger-my-experiences-in-the-far-right/

Ex-BNP yoof Jack Buckby trying to rebrand himself but still spreading the same shit in some sort of bizarre racist 'libertarian' group called Liberty GB which includes Paul Weston

edit: he's the 'culture officer' of the new 'party' lol


----------



## steeplejack (Aug 14, 2013)

Liberty GB seems to be the British Freedom Party, minus Beaker and Yaxley-Lennon. Destined to circle the plughole of far right irrelevance, with Paul Weston droning on...andon...and on about "cultural Islam" in increasingly empty Travelodge "business meeting rooms".

The BFP becoming Liberty GB is only slightly less desperate than troubling oddball Gary Raikes' re-formation of the British Union of Fascists, with him,self in the role of Mosley.  The implosion of the BNP has seen the far right spawn a supermarket shelf's worth of alphabeti spaghetti groupuscules.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 16, 2013)

more splinters on the far right shocker!!!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/its-far-right-alphabetti-spaghetti-time/


----------



## cesare (Aug 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> more splinters on the far right shocker!!!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/07/06/its-far-right-alphabetti-spaghetti-time/


You've missed off the National Democrats. Although the wiki entry says the party ceased to exist it seems to have been resurrected (I don't know to what extent - it could be one bloke and a twitter account for example - but they try and follow anti-FA on twitter etc).


----------



## weepiper (Aug 18, 2013)

The SDL had a march in Edinburgh yesterday. Their usual sort of turnout, looks like a bit less than the last one they had here which was just after the Woolwich murder. Noticeably more English flags and less saltires. They seem pretty confused; one minute chanting 'you're not British anymore' at the antis, the next singing 'Flower of Scotland' 

Interestingly one of them had an 'Axe The Bedroom Tax' sign'.







You can also hear them singing 'we pay your benefits' on the video below which was apparently filmed by a mole... curious given that the Bedroom Tax only affects you if you receive Housing Benefit. But it does show that they are basically poor and scared, and for whatever reason they swallow the tabloid line about that being the fault of immigrants and benefits claimants.


----------



## Corax (Aug 19, 2013)

"The Daily Bale" blog has been getting a bit of attention on twitter, due to apparently fabricating stories in their entirety to stir up racial tension. A recent piece about a Leicester pub banning forces personnel because it might upset muslims seems to have been exposed as an utter fiction, concocted for no other reason than to get 'patriots' frothing about dem durty muzzrats.

The Daily Bale is a right-wing blog. I was wondering about how they positioned themselves, their stated aims and so on, so I casually had a look at their "About" section. It reads like this:


> The Daily Bale is dedicated to bringing you the news the Left-Wing don’t want you to hear, through self-relief and determination we will present you with an array of articles, factual and non fictional that can be used against the Left-Wing to help take the fightback directly to their door.
> 
> Using the media of journalism for some time, communist, Marxist scum have made personal attacks against good hard working British citizens, people have been attacked in the street and driven from their homes because of the lies spread about them.


 
Sorry, what was that again?


> through_* self-relief*_ and determination we will present you with...


 
WTF's going on there then? A typo? A misunderstanding of what the words mean (by them, or me maybe?) Or are they actually letting slip that the whole thing's a load of wank?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 19, 2013)

ha ha ha.... gets better:
http://thedailybale.wordpress.com/2...eicester-mercury-responsible-for-globe-smear/

Now its a collusion between the local newspaper and the 'leftie owner' of the pub... whoever writes this guff obviously got chucked out one night for being drunk and racist I presume, and rather than have it out with the landlord got all keyboard warrior..... what a nob


----------



## Corax (Aug 19, 2013)

Aye.  I read on a bit, and the author is 'Josh Bonehill' or something like that.  Seems to be the tip of the iceberg of bizarre and laughable internet escapades.  Managed a princely sum of £1 pledged to his film idea about the Boston bombings.

Cops are looking into his Globe libel now.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 20, 2013)

bonehill has managed to alienate EDL as well as other far right after apparently conning people over money for the 'strong' thing that was sucking on lee rigby's corpse. he made a lot of enemies very quickly.


----------



## SchNEWS (Aug 20, 2013)

Stop the EDL in Tower Hamlets on September 7th ‪#‎nopasaran‬ http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/TOWER-HAMLETS---ROUND-TWO-/


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 20, 2013)

SchNEWS said:


> Stop the EDL in Tower Hamlets on September 7th ‪#‎nopasaran‬ http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/TOWER-HAMLETS---ROUND-TWO-/


 
No.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 21, 2013)

so should scottish antifascists have not turned up last saturday?


----------



## tony.c (Aug 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> No.


You don't live in London anyway.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Aug 21, 2013)

poor Tommy is back inside... and his buddy Kev...


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 21, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> poor Tommy is back inside... and his buddy Kev...


 
Back out again. https://twitter.com/EDLTrobinson/status/370221049419272193

Might be more going on here than meets the eye.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 21, 2013)

Meaning what - a debrief? You don't get pulled in for that that. You do that elsewhere. Or have i misread you?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Aug 21, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Back out again. https://twitter.com/EDLTrobinson/status/370221049419272193
> 
> Might be more going on here than meets the eye.


surely not his address!!!!


----------



## Corax (Aug 21, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> surely not his address!!!!


 
Well spotted!  Has he really done that though?  FFS, surely not...


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 21, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> so should scottish antifascists have not turned up last saturday?


 
As what? And how? Who do you mean?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Aug 21, 2013)

He tweeted it's not... But???

btw: How comes he is allowed to go to Tower Hamlets under his bail conditions? That really doesnt make sense...


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 21, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> He tweeted it's not... But???
> 
> btw: How comes he is allowed to go to Tower Hamlets under his bail conditions? That really doesnt make sense...


 
Read what the conditions on his going to Tower Hamlets are https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSNKFTvCEAAy9UC.jpg:large zoom in if you need/


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Aug 21, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Read what the conditions on his going to Tower Hamlets are https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSNKFTvCEAAy9UC.jpg:large zoom in if you need/


yup.. I got that... suppose he could cry foul if not allowed to go?
I would have thought as he was nicked for trying to enter TH he would have been not been allowed...
fecking Sharia Law!


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 21, 2013)

AKA pseudonym said:


> yup.. I got that... suppose he could cry foul if not allowed to go?
> I would have thought as he was nicked for trying to enter TH he would have been not been allowed...
> fecking Sharia Law!


 
I reckon it's more a case of the police using the bail conditions to ensure he does as he's told in Tower Hamlets, and perhaps more importantly puts pressure on TR to make sure the EDL do as their told on the day. Banning him from going completely might make it harder for them to police the event, in the absense of a leadership it could be much harder to get the EDL footsoldiers to comply with what the police want, so they want him there but as someone who can be used to help police the event. One of the conditions is "Not to deviate from the route or times of the EDL demonstration as agreed with police in advance" and "to follow all police directions on the EDL demonstration" so now if he doesn't comply and on the day and assist their policing of the event they can bang him up again.


----------



## Corax (Aug 21, 2013)

ZHC been sticking a load of EDLers' mobiles online recently.  I hadn't even realised they were still active tbh.


----------



## LiamO (Aug 21, 2013)

they are dead clever though... and subtle...

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...hreatens-to-start-race-war-by-killing-muslims


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 21, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> No.


Does that mean people should not go to the tower hamlets demo against the nazis? If so why?? 
Not having a dig ...Just interested


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 21, 2013)

Against 'the Nazis'? Seriously?

You're better than this.


----------



## Limerick Red (Aug 22, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Against 'the Nazis'? Seriously?
> 
> You're better than this.


 

Are "the left" either
1) unwilling to engage in the arguments of right wing nationalism, as they feel it is below them.
2) unable to engage in the arguments as they fear they are not able to win them, therefore turn the issue from a politcal one into a moral one, that transcends class and politics, turn the enemy into mytical bad men,evil monsters, nazis etc. then turns to the state they proclaim to be in opposition to, to deal with the issue.


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 22, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Against 'the Nazis'? Seriously?
> 
> You're better than this.


 

like I said ... I ain't digging...there is obviously a logic here or a political argument that has bypassed me...I am simply asking if anyone can explain it to me.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

comrade spurski said:
			
		

> like I said ... I ain't digging...there is obviously a logic here or a political argument that has bypassed me...I am simply asking if anyone can explain it to me.



Well the edl aren't nazis for starters although some of their members might be.


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 22, 2013)

ok ... so is that the reason that some on here don't think that their marches should opposed.

I ask cos some have said that they think that some of the counter marches are simply hyping the nazi threat for their own recruitment purposes.

I'm not sure that not opposing the edl on the grounds that it (the edl) is not an (openly) nazi party is something I agree with...I do understand the other argument but am uncomfortable with "ignoring them and they'll go away" type of thought...

I think racists can be argued with and won over...i think the edl leaders are more than just people with racist ideas but obviously I may be wrong


----------



## Limerick Red (Aug 22, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> ok ... so is that the reason that some on here don't think that their marches should opposed.
> 
> I ask cos some have said that they think that some of the counter marches are simply hyping the nazi threat for their own recruitment purposes.
> 
> ...


 
There are a few different positions on this thread, and I certainly do not think they (The EDL) should be ignored, and would encourge everyone to come out on the 7th and get involved in whatever capacity they can.

People are pissed off with alot of the so-called lefts inability to tackle the EDL on a politcal level, and if you read through the thread, you will see there is alot of anger at the complete class hatred shown by so called anti-fascist websites and social media outlets. The fact that the appeareance,mannerism and education levels of the EDL seem to be their beef, rather than the politics and issues they claim.

I have sympathy with the position that some people take, although dont agree with it myself, that time spent "being an anti-fascist" or going on anti-fascist demos, would be better spent organising in communities and tackling the root of where fascists come from, i.e the conditions that drive people to turn against one another, rather than the state which is creating these conditions through adherence to certain econmic philosophies.

Not attacking you, but the use of the term Nazi in regards to the EDL is a smear to avoid having to tackle their agenda. Sure they have some neo-nazis in their ranks, but those with their heads screwed on see every time they are seeing giving seig heils, its a wind up to the people opposing them, not evidence of a national socialist ideology.
We have very real and valid reasons to hate and oppose them, we dont need to make up ones.

See you on the 7th.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

The argument put forward by a few on here is that opposing them legitimises them; gives them a reason to continue where as ignoring them might hasten their inevitable demise. They were certainly on their last legs prior to the Lee Rigby killing and there's nothing to suggest that won't be their natural trajectory now.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm sure the 'ignore them and they will go away' argument doesn't sound so great when its your town centre where they are kicking things and being pricks though. 

I'm not sure the uaf/edl symbiotic thesis has much legs tbh.


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 22, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> There are a few different positions on this thread, and I certainly do not think they (The EDL) should be ignored, and would encourge everyone to come out on the 7th and get involved in whatever capacity they can.
> 
> People are pissed off with alot of the so-called lefts inability to tackle the EDL on a politcal level, and if you read through the thread, you will see there is alot of anger at the complete class hatred shown by so called anti-fascist websites and social media outlets. The fact that the appeareance,mannerism and education levels of the EDL seem to be their beef, rather than the politics and issues they claim.
> 
> ...


 
cheers for answering...

I too agree that work needs to be done in our communities to counter the cuts which, in my experience, aid the rise and spread of racist ideas. 

I also get the point re appearance, mannerisms and educational levels of edl members being used to oppose them...I remember working on the isle of dogs in th early 90's when derek beacon was elected for the bnp. He was interviewed on tv about council budgets and they made him look stupid...when we were campaigning against the cuts and against the bnp on the doorsteps he had a lot of sympathy from a large minority who felt that the snearing was because he was a "normal bloke" and not middle class like the other politicians...the piss taking was very counter productive.
One of the big things that got the bnp to lose the second election on the isle of dogs was the campaign to save a local health centre which pulled together a lot of different sections of the community including the local union members, residents, students, religious groups etc.

I'm not sure that I agree that the edl are not a nazi group...think I need to read a bit more, talk to others (quite difficult in the summer holidays when I am at home with my kids and don't see adults let alone talk politics with any!) and think about it...but again I agree that simply shouting "nazis of our streets" at them is missing the point. 
Some of the anti edl demos put on YouTube has seemed almost pointless in some ways...filled with lots of posturing from behind police lines opposing far greater numbers ... lots of chanting and very few (if any) unaligned anti racists/anti nazis...and no union or student banners (I know it's not the be all and end all to have union banners but it can be a postive sign if there are local union banners on demos imo).

Think I am going on now so... once again thanks for answering


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> The argument put forward by a few on here is that opposing them legitimises them; gives them a reason to continue where as ignoring them might hasten their inevitable demise. They were certainly on their last legs prior to the Lee Rigby killing and there's nothing to suggest that won't be their natural trajectory now.


 
Cheers for the answering...need to think and read about it a bit more


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 22, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> like I said ... I ain't digging...there is obviously a logic here or a political argument that has bypassed me...I am simply asking if anyone can explain it to me.


 
I'm not so bothered about the debate over whether to go and oppose them - if it was local to me and I could get there I probably would.

But while there's probably a few Nazis involved the EDL are not 'the Nazis'. They're right wing nationalists who have more sympathy for Zionism than Nazism. They're so obviously not Nazis that by calling them Nazis all you do is make yourself look ridiculous and discredit the decent arguments you're no doubt making at the same time.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

I don't think the edl even know what they are. They're basically an anti Islam pressure group but also have Nationalist tendencies such as opposing left wing stuff, unions etc. but they have a Jewish division. Because Israel doesn't like mussies either. They're all over the fucking place.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't think the edl even know what they are. They're basically an anti Islam pressure group but also have Nationalist tendencies such as opposing left wing stuff, unions etc. *but they have a Jewish division*. Because Israel doesn't like mussies either. They're all over the fucking place.


 
that was one bloke and he left


its almost literally a church and king mob tbf- although it is also home fore ageing nf sorts and that- and football aggro types who can't really do that anymore cos being nicked for footie aggro these days comes with an insanely high penalty

far too many of them are scared and angry. And what have we got to offer them? Taafes Little Book of Thoughts?

I dunno. I'm not a hug-a-hoolie liberal but at the same time it needs to be understood that w/c street movements such as the EDL will contain lots of scared lads. Yeah there will be state operatives, ageing BM sorts, genuine ideological racists and so on. But not all of them.

before anyone wants to start I'm a red, their idealouges would despise me. But there has to be a better way than this. I don't know what that way is, and I can't afford the busfare to go chant 'narsis off our strests' at a bunch of sadsacks in last seasons england shirts. It's pointless anyway

confused post I know. I just want peace between my class and focus on the real enemy


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> far too many of them are scared and angry. And what have we got to offer them? Taafes Little Book of Thoughts?
> 
> I dunno. I'm not a hug-a-hoolie liberal but at the same time it needs to be understood that w/c street movements such as the EDL will contain lots of scared lads.



But couldn't the same be said for all nationalist street movements? I'm sure the NF of the 70s had its fair share of alienated wwc in its ranks. And the BNP too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> confused post I know. I just want peace between my class and focus on the real enemy


confused indeed: you mean 'among' and not 'between'.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> confused indeed: you mean 'among' and not 'between'.



Pedantry is alive and well I see.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> that was one bloke and he left



I don't think the membership levels of that division are important. What it illustrates is that the edl are willing to collaborate with Jewish people against Muslims. Unsurprisingly the majority of Jewish people aren't daft enough to jump into bed with a group that resembles white Nationalism.

There's also the Sikh collaboration stuff too. Not sure what my point is here other than it isn't really representative of a 'Nazi' group. In fact, isn't that what caused the breakaway Infidel group to form? Or other typical infighting bollocks?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 not pedantry to point out your inability to say what you mean


----------



## Corax (Aug 22, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Are "the left" either
> 1) unwilling to engage in the arguments of right wing nationalism, as they feel it is below them.
> 2) unable to engage in the arguments as they fear they are not able to win them, therefore turn the issue from a politcal one into a moral one, that transcends class and politics, turn the enemy into mytical bad men,evil monsters, nazis etc. then turns to the state they proclaim to be in opposition to, to deal with the issue.


Lots of different reasons for different people I'm sure.  But I think a lot of people that see themselves as being in some regard on 'the left' have repeatedly tried engaging with right-wing nationalists, and become frustrated that the level of response makes any rational discourse impossible.

Before anyone bites my head off, that *doesn't* mean that ceasing to try is the right response, and it also *doesn't* mean that every right-wing nationalist is an idiot and/or unwilling to engage with the issues.  From what I've read of far-right opinions of 'lefties', I suspect that those on that side of the spectrum that try to engage their opposition in discussion receive a similar response, probably with knee-jerk accusations of nazism etc.

So we're left with two groups at opposite ends of the spectrum, both of whom contain idiots.  Probably a vocal minority in both camps, although I've no evidence either way for that tbh.  But many of those that aren't idiots end up considering the idiots of their opposition as being representative, and give up attempts at meaningful communication.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Citizen66 not pedantry to point out your inability to say what you mean


 

but it would be pedantry to point out that he was reacting to a poor choice of language by myself would it not?

So put that in you pipe and smoke it


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 22, 2013)

they're not nazis ffs.

and you can be a fascist and not be a nazi.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Citizen66 not pedantry to point out your inability to say what you mean



You're still correcting syntax in the written form.


----------



## Corax (Aug 22, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> they're not nazis ffs.
> 
> and you can be a fascist and not be a nazi.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 22, 2013)

Corax said:


>


 
it shouldn't even fuckin need saying tbf but it does ... usually to the same people who like to use lack of education as a substitute for political criticism


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> it shouldn't even fuckin need saying tbf but it does ... usually to the same people who like to use lack of education as a substitute for political criticism



Well both 'Nazi' and 'Fascist' are widely used as derogatory terms towards certain people/behaviours. Which obviously doesn't play out well in a political discussion. But that's where it stems from imo.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> You're still correcting syntax in the written form.


I'm simply saying you have peace among the working class not between the working class. It's an error which would embarrass a child of eight.


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 22, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm not so bothered about the debate over whether to go and oppose them - if it was local to me and I could get there I probably would.
> 
> But while there's probably a few Nazis involved the EDL are not 'the Nazis'. They're right wing nationalists who have more sympathy for Zionism than Nazism. They're so obviously not Nazis that by calling them Nazis all you do is make yourself look ridiculous and discredit the decent arguments you're no doubt making at the same time.


 

I would never use the term Nazi lightly but I am not sure I agree that they are not a Nazi organisation.

Their leaders are middle class, they seem to hate unions and organised groups of workers, scapegoat a visible religious group with their rabid anti Islam propaganda (which spills over into anti asian hatred if my experiences in Woolwich - where I live- is anything to go by). They use racism and religion as a tool to divide people and also slate all the main political parties.

The only difference I see between them and the BNP is that the BNP have stood in elections and the EDL haven't.

They are more of a mobilising movement than a party and undoubtedly not everyone who identifies with them is a Nazi.

Like I said earlier ... I am not sure what I think so wanted to read what others think so cheers for taking the time to answer


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> but it would be pedantry to point out that he was reacting to a poor choice of language by myself would it not?
> 
> So put that in you pipe and smoke it


His choice of language was worse than poor


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> I would never use the term Nazi lightly but I am not sure I agree that they are not a Nazi organisation.
> 
> Their leaders are middle class, they seem to hate unions and organised groups of workers, scapegoat a visible religious group with their rabid anti Islam propaganda (which spills over into anti asian hatred if my experiences in Woolwich - where I live- is anything to go by). They use racism and religion as a tool to divide people and also slate all the main political parties.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you should read eg the anatomy of fascism and also some stuff about church and king mobs who the edl more obviously resemble than the nsdap.


----------



## Corax (Aug 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm simply saying you have peace among the working class not between the working class. It's an error which would embarrass a child of eight.


 
Unless the eight year old was EDL. Cos they're all dead thick y'know.


----------



## Corax (Aug 22, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> The only difference I see between them and the BNP is that the BNP have stood in elections and the EDL haven't.


 
The BNP aren't nazis either.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 22, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> I would never use the term Nazi lightly but I am not sure I agree that they are not a Nazi organisation.
> 
> Their leaders are middle class, they seem to hate unions and organised groups of workers, scapegoat a visible religious group with their rabid anti Islam propaganda (which spills over into anti asian hatred if my experiences in Woolwich - where I live- is anything to go by). They use racism and religion as a tool to divide people and also slate all the main political parties.
> 
> ...


 
The BNP aren't a Nazi party either (not anymore anyway, if they ever really were). Racism and opposition to the left and labour movement does not a Nazi make - if it did half the Tory party would be Nazis.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm simply saying you have peace among the working class not between the working class. It's an error which would embarrass a child of eight.



You clearly haven't had much experience of children aged eight recently.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 22, 2013)

Shall I fetch a child of 8?


----------



## Corax (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> You clearly haven't had much experience of children aged eight recently.


 
Whereas...

Aw shit... Nope, I guess there _*is*_ a line...


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> I would never use the term Nazi lightly but I am not sure I agree that they are not a Nazi organisation.
> 
> Their leaders are middle class, they seem to hate unions and organised groups of workers, scapegoat a visible religious group with their rabid anti Islam propaganda (which spills over into anti asian hatred if my experiences in Woolwich - where I live- is anything to go by). They use racism and religion as a tool to divide people and also slate all the main political parties.
> 
> ...



National Socialism and fascism are two distinct political positions. Along with Nationalism they share many characteristics but that doesn't make any of them the other. It's like anarchism supports freedom of expression. So does Neo Liberalism. But that doesn't make David Cameron an anarchist.


----------



## Corax (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> National Socialism and fascism are two distinct political positions. Along with Nationalism they share many characteristics but that doesn't make any of them the other. It's like anarchism supports freedom of expression. So does Neo Liberalism. But that doesn't make David Cameron an anarchist.


 
Neatly put   I have a feeling I'll quote that at some point.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

And 'the edl' are a pressure group that contain people of many political persuasions. They're more like Occupy in that respect.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 22, 2013)

I think there could be good grounds to describe the EDL or elements of it anyway as a fascist organisation, for the reasons you mention.

They are not (all, or even mostly) Nazis though. Nazism is a very specific type of fascism.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

Occupy is riddled with truthers but you wouldn't call occupy a 'truther group'. Anarchists are involved but it isn't an anarchist group either. It's a single issue umbrella org.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I think there could be good grounds to describe the EDL or elements of it anyway as a fascist organisation, for the reasons you mention.
> 
> They are not (all, or even mostly) Nazis though. Nazism is a very specific type of fascism.



I'd be inclined to agree if it wasn't for the 'alienated white working class' points that goes hand in hand with the edl. It certainly displays the characteristics of a fascist street movement; though the waters are muddied by those inlolved.


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I'd be inclined to agree if it wasn't for the 'alienated white working class' points that goes hand in hand with the edl. It certainly displays the characteristicsmof a fascist street movement though; the waters are muddied by those inlolved.


 
yep. although the original fascist street movements also had a few white working class people involved, although perhaps not as many as the EDL

they're definitely not nazis though - as spiney said many of them are probably more attracted to zionism than national socialism.

there have been fascist movements (or movements that very strongly resemble fascism) in countries like Israel, India, Burma, etc - none of these are Nazis, doesn't mean they're not fascists but it's important to know what you're talking about when you discuss this stuff.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

You know more than me about fascism froggie, but isn't one characteristic the marriage of the corporation and the state? Does that really describe the edl?


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Perhaps you should read eg the anatomy of fascism and also some stuff about church and king mobs who the edl more obviously resemble than the nsdap.



will try and find that to read   ...    cheers


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> You know more than me about fascism froggie, but isn't one characteristic the marriage of the corporation and the state? Does that really describe the edl?


 
I'm not sure mate? Probably not but I don't know what they've said about it, they seem to have had little to say about it?

some of their members certainly use anti-capitalist pro-"working class" rhetoric sometimes but as a whole, they don't seem to want to oppose capitalism? (not that that necessarily means anything)

to be honest tho corporatism appears in a lot of political forms, not just fascism- i think butchers linked to an interesting essay about it a while back


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 22, 2013)

i'm not saying they definitely are fascists in the technical definition btw


----------



## Corax (Aug 22, 2013)

Can an organisation whose membership don't tend to have any discernible political commonality beyond a single issue be categorised in this kind of manner?

It seems to me akin to trying to place a sports club on a political spectrum, or a troupe of morris dancers, or the regular commuters on the 10:32 from Bristol.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I'm not sure mate? Probably not but I don't know what they've said about it, they seem to have had little to say about it?
> 
> some of their members certainly use anti-capitalist pro-"working class" rhetoric sometimes but as a whole, they don't seem to want to oppose capitalism? (not that that necessarily means anything)
> 
> to be honest tho corporatism appears in a lot of political forms, not just fascism- i think butchers linked to an interesting essay about it a while back



Cheers. Yeah butchers posted up a pdf that I need to read but my pc has been poorly and is now sent away to be fixed and it won't download to my tablet.  

I think it's very difficult to describe the edl as anything really. As it's an umbrella org. Certainly when members in boro were confronted I was reliably informed that they appeared scared (as dotty correctly identified) and confused as to who to blame rather than adherents to any particular ideology. But that may not be true for the other divisions.


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 22, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> I think there could be good grounds to describe the EDL or elements of it anyway as a fascist organisation, for the reasons you mention.
> 
> They are not (all, or even mostly) Nazis though. Nazism is a very specific type of fascism.


 

that makes a lot of sense to me...thanks


----------



## comrade spurski (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> National Socialism and fascism are two distinct political positions. Along with Nationalism they share many characteristics but that doesn't make any of them the other. It's like anarchism supports freedom of expression. So does Neo Liberalism. But that doesn't make David Cameron an anarchist.


 

 this also makes a lot of sense to me...cheers


----------



## frogwoman (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Cheers. Yeah butchers posted up a pdf that I need to read but my pc has been poorly and is now sent away to be fixed and it won't download to my tablet.
> 
> I think it's very difficult to describe the edl as anything really. As it's an umbrella org. Certainly when members in boro were confronted I was reliably informed that they appeared scared (as dotty correctly identified) and confused as to who to blame rather than adherents to any particular ideology. But that may not be true for the other divisions.


 
I think it probably varies and the leadership maybe don't have the same level of central control as classical fascist organisations do/did


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> this also makes a lot of sense to me...cheers



Neo fucking Liberalism shares more characteristics with anarchism as time elapses.  things that anarchists would trumpet such as gay rights, Neo Liberalism then gives a nod to in order to shrink opposition but keep the wheels in motion. What Neo Liberalism will never correct though is hierarchy. Which is pretty much at the root of most social and political problems. Complete kick in the teeth though when all the various minority groups turn their back on radical left thought as soon as Neo Liberalism tosses them a sardine.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 22, 2013)

Actually I've got Anatomy of Fascism on my tablet. Completely forgot about that.


----------



## bamalama (Aug 22, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I think it's very difficult to describe the edl as anything really. As it's an umbrella org. Certainly when members in boro were confronted I was reliably informed that they appeared scared (as dotty correctly identified) and confused as to who to blame rather than adherents to any particular ideology. But that may not be true for the other divisions.





Citizen66 said:


> Actually I've got Anatomy of Fascism on my tablet. Completely forgot about that.


Aye that sort of makes sense to me,but we know they are definitely anti muslim,with a fair dollop of english nationalism-good ole blighty queen and country stuff.

edit:don't know why it's quoted that second bit


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Shall I fetch a child of 8?


 
from your cupboard


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> from your cupboard


*This post was brought to you in association with Climax Productions*


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> from your cupboard


 
It's a fucking pantry


----------



## krink (Aug 23, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> It's a fucking pantry


 

No, its a _pedantry_.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2013)

lair


----------



## Corax (Aug 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> lair


 
You've got no reason to doubt his honesty!


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 24, 2013)

krink said:


> No, its a _pedantry_.


 
Cellar vie!!


----------



## tony.c (Aug 24, 2013)

krink said:


> No, its a _pedantry_.


Wasn't Pickmans' though.


----------



## J Ed (Aug 24, 2013)

Corax said:


> Can an organisation whose membership don't tend to have any discernible political commonality beyond a single issue be categorised in this kind of manner?
> 
> It seems to me akin to trying to place a sports club on a political spectrum, or a troupe of morris dancers, or the regular commuters on the 10:32 from Bristol.


 
I don't know if we have to say that describing the political views of the EDL is like describing the political views of a sports club but I think that it's more useful to see the EDL as a broad based social movement rather than a party with tenets of faith.


----------



## Corax (Aug 24, 2013)

J Ed said:


> I don't know if we have to say that describing the political views of the EDL is like describing the political views of a sports club


 
It was an extreme analogy to illustrate the point admittedly.  But I do think the point stands.  Tangling ourselves up trying to stick them in a particular political box seems pointless at best, and counterproductive at worst - especially as many of their advocates don't conform to any label one might pick and so will kick back against it and possibly then become further entrenched in their positions as a defensive reaction.


J Ed said:


> I think that it's more useful to see the EDL as a broad based social movement rather than a party with tenets of faith.


I'm not sure just how 'broad' that base is - in terms of demographics for instance - but these things are all relative, and it's certainly a more accurate and useful description than sticking a swastika on them or whatever.


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

..


----------



## Favelado (Aug 25, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Citizen66 not pedantry to point out your inability to say what you mean


 
You were wrong anyway. "Between" is now commonly used in this way and usage wins over supposed grammar rules. It's now common enough to be correct usage, regardless of whether people used to consider it an error. So fuck off, you twat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2013)

Favelado said:


> You were wrong anyway. "Between" is now commonly used in this way and usage wins over supposed grammar rules. It's now common enough to be correct usage, regardless of whether people used to consider it an error. So fuck off, you twat.


Source or stfu.

but let me quickly elaborate. something can only be 'between' more than one thing - a bridge between two banks of a river, peace between two nations, a conversation between three people, war between classes. you can't have a conversation between one person! although you can have disagreement between members of a class, you can't have disagreement between a class; you have disagreement among a class of people. 



> be·tween
> biˈtwēn
> _preposition_
> preposition: *between*; preposition: *bet.*
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 25, 2013)

but Favelado if you want to impress with your knowledge of current english usage you should have done it a couple of days ago rather than stirring up something which isn't too entertaining just in the vain hope of outpedanting me. btw 'usage' doesn't necessarily win over rules otherwise things like 'apple's 50p' would be considered correct.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 25, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> ..


 

what?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> what?


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

Sorry for those postings that I have removed. Must stop posting after pub.


----------



## JimW (Aug 25, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Sorry for those postings that I have removed. Must stop posting after pub.


 
I'm sorry you removed 'em before i read 'em


----------



## bignose1 (Aug 25, 2013)

It was stuff I should really save for another day.


----------



## bamalama (Aug 25, 2013)

JimW said:


> I'm sorry you removed 'em before i read 'em


I read 'em but forgot em all except someone got a slap at manchester gay pride


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 25, 2013)

bamalama said:


> I read 'em but forgot em all except someone got a slap at manchester gay pride


I think you must have misread them - they were all one man arguing with himself over the size of the biggest pike he ever landed.


----------



## Favelado (Aug 25, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> but Favelado if you want to impress with your knowledge of current english usage you should have done it a couple of days ago rather than stirring up something which isn't too entertaining just in the vain hope of outpedanting me. btw 'usage' doesn't necessarily win over rules otherwise things like 'apple's 50p' would be considered correct.


 
"Between" can now be used in the way the poster used it. Future dictionaries will reflect this, as they are always catching up with the public. It is now commonly used to describe actions or relationships in a group consisting of a number of constituent units or people. However, "between" and "among" are not entirely interchangable though, I agree. You're right about me being petty and late in this case. Apologies to other posters.

The greengrocer's apostrophe example is interesting. Usage is a mess and the rules are daft so that problem will rumble on for the foreseeable. If 100% of people started pluralising nouns with apostrophes, then the rules would indeed change. There's a tipping point that has to be reached for these things. So I'd still argue you with you on that point.

Thread-jack over. You have full right of reply to say mean things and then people can talk about the EDL again. I know, kind aren't I?


----------



## elbows (Aug 26, 2013)

Hate-filled scum on Facebook cheering another mosque arson attempt:

https://twitter.com/steveplrose/status/372112096105750528/photo/1


----------



## Inigo Montoya (Aug 27, 2013)

Celtic casuals from Cowdenbeath take it to SDL. I heard earlier in the day, 4 SDL got done and one didn't make it to demo as he was chased up and down the High St.



(I know people's faces aren't blanked out but it's already got to past 8k views and nothing illegal is caught on camera)


----------



## ddraig (Aug 27, 2013)

what was their beef with the garage?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 27, 2013)

ddraig said:


> what was their beef with the garage?


No Ginster's Ham & Cheese Slices


----------



## ddraig (Aug 27, 2013)

halal garages! the final straw


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Aug 27, 2013)

ddraig said:


> what was their beef with the garage?


 
And what was going on with the transit van?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 27, 2013)

It's supposed to employ a paedo - and is right by a school. I don't know the truth of either claim.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> And what was going on with the transit van?


 
Looked like he nudged one of the SDL people who was doing the _we own the road_ thing. Camera went straight to van reg which i thought a bit...odd.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 28, 2013)

that was well wobbly. almost boaked me polish beer back up!


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 30, 2013)

anyone up for tower hamlets message me!


----------



## ddraig (Aug 30, 2013)

five figure sums payout for antis in Bolton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23902022


> Solicitor Michael Oswald, acting on their behalf, said: "It is a reflection of the bravery and tenacity of our clients that, more than three years after the attempts made to criminalise their peaceful opposition to the racist EDL, they have by way of these settlements finally been able to achieve the accountability and vindication they have sought."
> The three campaigners had launched civil claims for false imprisonment, assault, homophobic abuse and malicious prosecution.
> 
> One claimed he was seriously wounded by a police dog used as a weapon by an officer.
> Police said several people were convicted of a variety of offences following the rally.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Aug 30, 2013)

ddraig said:


> One claimed he was seriously wounded by a police dog used as a weapon by an officer.


 
I saw that happen it was awful, glad they got some compensation. Police were well out of line that day.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 31, 2013)

bump!
EDL and north east infidels in south shields today.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 31, 2013)

HnH tweeting that a photographer's just be assaulted by an EDLer


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2013)

stuff on indymedia about south shields. bold but small antifascist turnout. 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2013/08/512291.html?c=on#comments
the photographer was spat at and hassled a wee bit but they are well used to it!


----------



## tony.c (Sep 1, 2013)

So is Calvert presently a guest of Her Majesty? How long will he be eating porridge?


----------



## krink (Sep 1, 2013)

yesterday in south shields was a very mixed bag. first part of the day i felt our little band needed to be much better organised and disciplined but in the end it worked out a canny day. two lads who tried to protect a female photographer ended up getting arrested and the 50 edl who were doing the attacking got pat on the back off cops. some numbnut tried to attack the uaf demo but the demo had just been increased in size by a bunch of locals who gave the wannabe warrior a stern talking to. typically, the antis were arrested/assaulted by the cops. the policing was so partial it was shocking. edl couldn't do any wrong while local kids were chased, hassled and eventually one of ours got section 27.

numbers i'd say 150 - 200 edl and about 70 uaf. the various groups of locals who were roaming about looking for edl numbered about 30 in total. quite a few nazis on the edl march including NF and BNP and the SDL and NEI who are openly racist and proud. Funny watching some SDL chant you're not english at bemused local shoppers. the locals weren't impressed at all. 

there's vids and pics on the internet but i cant be arsed to post links


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 1, 2013)

tony.c said:


> So is Calvert presently a guest of Her Majesty? How long will he be eating porridge?



unclear but yesterday at s shields some bellends had a free diddyfiddler slogan on a shit flag. he is no doubt singing like a racist budgie to his handlers. even some of the infidels have been talking about his, err, 'reliability.'


----------



## tony.c (Sep 1, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> yesterday at s shields some bellends had a free diddyfiddler slogan on a shit flag.


Yeah I saw that on the indymedia pics, that's why I asked. I thought he was due for sentencing some time soon.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 2, 2013)

he is up for the liverpool assault along with a couple of others who are a wee bit worried. if the little fiddler gets off lightly certain suspicions will be confirmed. he has been done for coke possession as well recently.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 2, 2013)

That Youtube video about the assault won't do him any good if the OB or CPS see it and make it known to the Judge before sentencing.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 2, 2013)

ddraig said:


> five figure sums payout for antis in Bolton
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23902022





> Two officers were charged with perverting the course of justice, with one later acquitted and the case against the other thrown out.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2013)

ai, no surprises there


----------



## audiotech (Sep 2, 2013)




----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 2, 2013)

but can it say no pasaran?


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Sep 2, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> he is up for the liverpool assault along with a couple of others who are a wee bit worried. if the little fiddler gets off lightly certain suspicions will be confirmed. he has been done for coke possession as well recently.



all changed their pleas to guilty today - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/five-merseysiders-face-sentence-liverpool-5829530


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Sep 2, 2013)

ps Liverpool Antifascists issued this "*Correction: the people who were attacked were not "demonstrators" as this article says: they were a teenage brother and sister and their father who had been to an antifascist benefit gig."*


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> but can it say no pasaran?


Apparrotly yes....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> but can it say no pasaran?





bignose1 said:


> Apparrotly yes....



I guess it all dates back to solidarity work and links forged back in the days of the Mynahs' Strike.


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 3, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> I guess it all dates back to solidarity work and links forged back in the days of the Mynahs' Strike.


Budgiet Cuts and Hawksterity measures....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 3, 2013)

Too much milletary expenditure


----------



## Corax (Sep 3, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Budgiet Cuts and Hawksterity measures....


We're owl in it together


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2013)




----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 3, 2013)

antifascist confab! 
http://searchlightmagazine.com/news...eport-united-east-end-mobilising-to-block-edl


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:
			
		

> but can it say no pasaran?



Pieces of eight eight


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 3, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Pieces of eight eight


No parrotscan...


----------



## audiotech (Sep 3, 2013)




----------



## krink (Sep 4, 2013)

there are some pics of saturday in a slide-show here.

right at the end there is a nice picture of the lads we were supporting on saturday. they didn't need physical support as such just the cops were taking libs and we were there making sure we kept the youths in the picture and giving advice/tip-off where the cops were etc. they appreciated it and they were a good laugh. as you can see, it's a mixed race group (as is the norm in south shields) which i bet really made the edl's blood boil.

*the lad in white in cuffs (about 47/50 seconds) is an anti-fash btw.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 4, 2013)

i think the lad in white stepped in when some EDL had a go at an antifash photog and got nicked. the photog was unscathed but bad luck for the guy. oh well  ...


----------



## krink (Sep 4, 2013)

that is correct.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 6, 2013)

Is anyone hooking up ahead of the Tower Hamlet demo tomorrow. I'm on my lonesome and looking to tag along with anybody who's going....


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 6, 2013)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Is anyone hooking up ahead of the Tower Hamlet demo tomorrow. I'm on my lonesome and looking to tag along with anybody who's going....



http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/resistance-to-fascism-in-the-east-end.314310/

You might be better of asking on that thread.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 6, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/resistance-to-fascism-in-the-east-end.314310/
> 
> You might be better of asking on that thread.



Sorted now.


----------



## audiotech (Sep 9, 2013)

LDMG press statement at arrests of Legal Observers.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Sep 9, 2013)

are the OB about to form a swastika shaped kettle there?


----------



## andysays (Sep 9, 2013)

audiotech said:


> LDMG press statement at arrests of Legal Observers



Is it just me, or is all the outrage there at the arrest of the 5 observers and none at the arrest of the 150 odd protestors?


----------



## Corax (Sep 9, 2013)

andysays said:


> Is it just me, or is all the outrage there at the arrest of the 5 observers and none at the arrest of the 150 odd protestors?


Just because people have become used to the latter.  The former is a line less frequently crossed.


----------



## Greebo (Sep 9, 2013)

Corax said:


> Just because people have become used to the latter.  The former is a line less frequently crossed.


^Good point - it shouldn't be this way but it is.


----------



## Corax (Sep 9, 2013)

Greebo said:


> ^Good point - it shouldn't be this way but it is.


And thus the well-chosen term "erosion" - of civil liberties etc.  No catastrophic earthquakes or landslips.  Just erosion - bit by bit, slowly, gradually.

Like when you go swimming in a cold sea.  Wade in slowly and it's still unpleasant, and it takes longer, but it doesn't make you gasp so much.  Run full pelt into the waves and it literally takes your breath away and makes you yelp, there's a more dramatic physical reaction.

So it's all done slowly, gradually.  So we don't have that reaction.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2013)

What's at the end?


----------



## barney_pig (Sep 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What's at the end?


A nice swim and maybe some hot chocolate later?


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2013)

Fascism lol.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Fascism lol.


Is this a serious post lol?


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Is this a serious post lol?



Of course lol.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2013)

I can't remember who pointed it out but it was a point I took on board. I think it might have been spanky longhorn. All this OMGz we're becoming FASCIST lets liberal democracy off the hook.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Of course lol.


If you think fascism comes by degree then you need to stop using the term. If you think it applied to country historetically then you need to stop using the term. Both of these stoppages require you to have a look at what fascism is, what a fascist movement is, what a fascist regime is, and how the former becomes the latter and how the frig that make such nonsense as we're on the road to fascism today is just well, nonsense.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I can't remember who pointed it out but it was a point I took on board. I think it might have been spanky longhorn. All this OMGz we're becoming FASCIST lets liberal democracy off the hook.


I asked you if you were serious in posting that the increasing authoritarianism means that we are on the road to fascism.  You said that you were. I have no idea why you mentioned that other stuff.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I asked you if you were serious in posting that the increasing authoritarianism means that we are on the road to fascism.  You said that you were. I have no idea why you mentioned that other stuff.



I thought the lol at the end meant what I was saying was in jest? Fair enough, things don't always come across best in text form but to be clear I was laughing AT that idea. I thought you did subtelty? Granted, I haven't reached cryptic, yet...


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I thought the lol at the end meant what I was saying was in jest? Fair enough, things don't always come across best in text form but to be clear I was laughing AT that idea. I thought you did subtelty? Granted, I haven't reached cryptic, yet...


No worries then. lol (that's lol backwards)


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2013)

Butchers is properly on my back again like the good old days.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Butchers is properly on my back again like the good old days.


Not on anyones back, i'm off to bed after a disgraceful embarrassing  cricket display


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 9, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I can't remember who pointed it out but it was a point I took on board. I think it might have been spanky longhorn. All this OMGz we're becoming FASCIST lets liberal democracy off the hook.


Sounds like a good point so it probably was me.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Sounds like a good point so it probably was me.



I think it was. And now I use it as a stick to beat people with.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 10, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I think it was. And now I use it as a stick to beat people with.


I find sticks are better for that.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 10, 2013)

andysays said:


> Is it just me, or is all the outrage there at the arrest of the 5 observers and none at the arrest of the 150 odd protestors?


It's specifically a press statement about the arrest of the legal observers.

Given the number of protests, demonstrations etc that LMDG (and GBC) volunteers quietly, methodically legal observe at (clue: it's many more times than well-funded interest groups like Liberty), one can hardly credibly critique them as headline-chasers.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Sep 10, 2013)

Corax said:


> And thus the well-chosen term "erosion" - of civil liberties etc.  No catastrophic earthquakes or landslips.  Just erosion - bit by bit, slowly, gradually.
> 
> Like when you go swimming in a cold sea.  Wade in slowly and it's still unpleasant, and it takes longer, but it doesn't make you gasp so much.  Run full pelt into the waves and it literally takes your breath away and makes you yelp, there's a more dramatic physical reaction.
> 
> So it's all done slowly, gradually.  So we don't have that reaction.



Is it because the EDL are now so washed up / in the Met's pocket that the Police can now turn their attention to the anti's?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 10, 2013)

it has its precedence at bolton when plod got very heavy on antifascists. in general the counter-demos tend to be pretty peaceful. i have noticed that once EDL have been contained, kettled and bussed out, the counter is left to disperse itself. plod have not had a great history of containing the fash - leicester, stoke, bradford, brighton - so they really use heavy manners to avoid embarrassment.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's specifically a press statement about the arrest of the legal observers.
> 
> Given the number of protests, demonstrations etc that LMDG (and GBC) volunteers quietly, methodically legal observe at (clue: it's many more times than well-funded interest groups like Liberty), one can hardly credibly critique them as headline-chasers.


...and on top of that, their work is central to dealing with other cases of police arseholery. Which suggests a few reasons why they seemed to have made a decision to target them. Not everyone who is nicked has the potential to cause the damage that they can - it's basic good tactics to defend key positions.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 10, 2013)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Is it because the EDL are now so washed up / in the Met's pocket that the Police can now turn their attention to the anti's?


No it's the opposite. The EDl are hardly washed up. The opposition to them is increasing and is hard for the police to manage. The police are all about control. The mass arrest of anti EDl protesters enables the Met to set restrictive bail conditions for ages thus keeping the anti's  from continuing opposition (or so they think), and enables the police to conduct a huge fishing operation in collecting finger prints, DNA records, addresses, phone contacts etc.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 10, 2013)

The police loathe the legal observers as they don't cooperate with them, are staunch in sticking up for protesters and often give very good legal advise on the ground and after.


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 10, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> plod have not had a great history of containing the fash - leicester, stoke, bradford, brighton - so they really use heavy manners to avoid embarrassment.



I must say from what I have seen (although I've not been to an EDL demo for over a year) the EDL were contained more forcefully than the opposition.

I think other than Bolton and this last Tower Hamlets demo, the EDL have been treated worse than the anti-fascists. In Bolton they clearly had some sort of agenda with the size of arrests and the people they arrested. I reckon it was pre-planned in Tower Hamlets too, they were just waiting for a reason which the anti-fascists were always going to give them.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 10, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> I must say from what I have seen (although I've not been to an EDL demo for over a year) the EDL were contained more forcefully than the opposition.
> 
> I think other than Bolton and this last Tower Hamlets demo, the EDL have been treated worse than the anti-fascists. In Bolton they clearly had some sort of agenda with the size of arrests and the people they arrested. I reckon it was pre-planned in Tower Hamlets too, they were just waiting for a reason which the anti-fascists were always going to give them.



Definitely. Though I think UAF's bizarre 'strategy' in Bolton played a significant role in the way things turned out too. I still haven't got a clue wtf they thought they were doing.


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 10, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Definitely. Though I think UAF's bizarre 'strategy' in Bolton played a significant role in the way things turned out too. I still haven't got a clue wtf they thought they were doing.



What strategy do you mean? 

I can't really remember much and I was nicked really early on.


----------



## Corax (Sep 10, 2013)

I've never entirely worked Tatchell out - but this initiative strikes me as a good one.  Kinda runs contrary to a significant part of the EDL rhetoric, and demonstrates it with incontrovertible reality.







http://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/anti-edl-rally-tower-hamlets-7-september-2013


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 10, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> What strategy do you mean?
> 
> I can't really remember much and I was nicked really early on.



I put it in scare quotes cos there didn't really seem to be one. But there was a row of coppers at the back of the cordon (furthest away from the EDL) who you could just walk around. Why you'd have wanted to I don't know cos it would have taken you away from the EDL. But anyway, they had people pushing against the police at the back there, and against the harris fence at the side in the corner despite the fact that you could just walk around it. They were coming over to other parts of the cordon and saying 'we need comrades to help in the corner over there' to get more over there pushing. I have no idea why. But it ended with people being pushed into the old bill and getting arrested for no good reason, and some appearing to get quite badly hurt. I went over thinking some EDL had got through or the coppers were beating someone up who needed help or something but just ended up getting pushed into the coppers who tried to arrest me but I got pulled back out. 

It looked as though they'd done everything they could to make sure as many people as possible came into physical and often violent contact with the police. I have considered the possibility that this was indeed their intention and they did it to show how violent the coppers were so people wouldn't trust them - like they were trying to radicalise people. I don't think they were though, I think they were just trying to be as wadical as possible and everyone knows that you need to kick off with the old  bill if you want to be wadical.

I vowed not to go to another UAF demo after that but was tempted a few months later by one in Dudley - just to see what was going on and whether anything had changed. This time I got there early and went for a wander but since it was just me, a blind man and a 13 year old we decided it was prudent to return to the cordon when EDL got there cos we couldn't have run or faught really - but the stewards wouldn't let us in because they thought we were EDL cos I have short hair and was wearing an addidas top. If the bloke I was with hadn;t known the phone number of a SWP organiser who came and got us in we could have got battered. That was the final straw, never going near their counter-demos again, I'd rather run around with the dog on a string brigade than that.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 10, 2013)

Has anyone done a summary of last saturdays goings on in Tower Hamlets? 

Who won?

I listened to the Yaxley lemon speech on Youtube, no more talk of terrorists, just direct racism directed at muslims and tacit support for Assad's regime dressed up as concern for our troops.

Highlight of events was not the crossdresser at EDL but UK Apache singing at Altab Ali park.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 10, 2013)

Did someone sat Charity Walk?

it's back!


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 10, 2013)

Yeah, he got it in between David Cameron and Syria. He definitely said, Charity walk.

Here's another charity walk


----------



## audiotech (Sep 10, 2013)

> Those arrested on Saturday represent the London I have come to know: ethnically diverse, of all ages and from a range of economic backgrounds; bound together by mutual respect of difference and recognition of shared commonality. On the other hand the actions of the police on the day represented the continuation of a strategy based on a complete disdain for the principles of free association and assembly. A bronze commander standing by a number of empty buses, soon to be filled with protesters, smirked when he said: "We're not leaving until these wagons are full." Such words and the equivalence he drew between a politically engaged public and cattle to fill quotas belies the contempt in which the public, when they choose to disagree, are ultimately held.



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/10/peaceful-protest-anti-fascist-protesters-edl


----------



## emanymton (Sep 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I put it in scare quotes cos there didn't really seem to be one. But there was a row of coppers at the back of the cordon (furthest away from the EDL) who you could just walk around. Why you'd have wanted to I don't know cos it would have taken you away from the EDL. But anyway, they had people pushing against the police at the back there, and against the harris fence at the side in the corner despite the fact that you could just walk around it. They were coming over to other parts of the cordon and saying 'we need comrades to help in the corner over there' to get more over there pushing. I have no idea why. But it ended with people being pushed into the old bill and getting arrested for no good reason, and some appearing to get quite badly hurt. I went over thinking some EDL had got through or the coppers were beating someone up who needed help or something but just ended up getting pushed into the coppers who tried to arrest me but I got pulled back out.
> 
> It looked as though they'd done everything they could to make sure as many people as possible came into physical and often violent contact with the police. I have considered the possibility that this was indeed their intention and they did it to show how violent the coppers were so people wouldn't trust them - like they were trying to radicalise people. I don't think they were though, I think they were just trying to be as wadical as possible and everyone knows that you need to kick off with the old  bill if you want to be wadical.
> 
> I vowed not to go to another UAF demo after that but was tempted a few months later by one in Dudley - just to see what was going on and whether anything had changed. This time I got there early and went for a wander but since it was just me, a blind man and a 13 year old we decided it was prudent to return to the cordon when EDL got there cos we couldn't have run or faught really - but the stewards wouldn't let us in because they thought we were EDL cos I have short hair and was wearing an addidas top. If the bloke I was with hadn;t known the phone number of a SWP organiser who came and got us in we could have got battered. That was the final straw, never going near their counter-demos again, I'd rather run around with the dog on a string brigade than that.


I agree about the lack of strategy on the day, in fact my first thought when you said UAF strategy, was what strategy. 

Strange thing is people like delroy claim it wasn't UAF pushing in the corner but UAF trying to stop it. My impression was the same as yours though.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 11, 2013)

emanymton said:


> I agree about the lack of strategy on the day, in fact my first thought when you said UAF strategy, was what strategy.
> 
> Strange thing is people like delroy claim it wasn't UAF pushing in the corner but UAF trying to stop it. My impression was the same as yours though.



I like delroy but he's completely wrong if that's what he's saying - they were going round inside the cordon appealing for people to come over and push.


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> I like delroy but he's completely wrong if that's what he's saying - they were going round inside the cordon appealing for people to come over and push.



I can't reply fully but I agree in part with Delroy.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2013)

me, raknor, nanker and a few others were with EDL news:
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/1182-500-edl-fail-to-make-it-to-tower-hamlets
i was gonna do one but it wd have just been repeating EDL News's.


----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 11, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> me, raknor, nanker and a few others were with EDL news:
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/1182-500-edl-fail-to-make-it-to-tower-hamlets
> i was gonna do one but it wd have just been repeating EDL News's.


_"the group reached that point as the EDL reached the top of Tower Bridge, forcing police to stop the EDL march while they decided what to do, and when the police found they couldn't push the antifascists back they had to divert the EDL march into the city and away from the residential areas of Tower Hamlets as the EDL had planned."_

The above statement just isnt true, unfortunetly, Plod had always planned on Minories being the route

From the met

EDL: March from Queen Elizabeth St. Tower Bridge Rd, Tower Bridge Approach, The Minories, Aldgate High St no further than Mansell St junction, and same return route. No more than 30 minute static protest at Aldgate East. No joining or leaving march at any point on route after start. Time limited to 12 - 3pm (by which time they mist be back at Queen Elizabeth St and disperse.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2013)

i will get back on this later LR and post my notes on the day when i get chance.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 11, 2013)

emanymton said:


> I agree about the lack of strategy on the day, in fact my first thought when you said UAF strategy, was what strategy.
> 
> Strange thing is people like delroy claim it wasn't UAF pushing in the corner but UAF trying to stop it. My impression was the same as yours though.



Where did I say that? There's some confusion here I think, although that's not surprising it was a quite confusing situation at the time, maybe my recollection isn't perfect, I don't know tbh. 



SpineyNorman said:


> I like delroy but he's completely wrong if that's what he's saying - they were going round inside the cordon appealing for people to come over and push.



^ This definitely happened I saw that. and this:



> I put it in scare quotes cos there didn't really seem to be one. But there was a row of coppers at the back of the cordon (furthest away from the EDL) who you could just walk around. Why you'd have wanted to I don't know cos it would have taken you away from the EDL. But anyway, they had people pushing against the police at the back there, and against the harris fence at the side in the corner despite the fact that you could just walk around it. They were coming over to other parts of the cordon and saying 'we need comrades to help in the corner over there' to get more over there pushing



Also tallies with what I remember. One of the strangest things I've ever seen that was.

I remember there being some other pushing and shoving around that fence to the side, which was to do with a police snatch squad going in to nick Weymann and Martin iirc, although again i'm going off hazy memories so maybe I'm wrong, I think that's what happened at the time.


----------



## Balbi (Sep 11, 2013)

Twitter's a twitter about the UAF being informed of potential for mass arrests if they left the park. Shame nobody else got told.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 11, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Twitter's a twitter about the UAF being informed of potential for mass arrests if they left the park. Shame nobody else got told.


Eg via Aaron Peters:



> RT "Just heard that at UAF caucus before Sat's demo they were told not to leave park as UAF had been told that there would be mass arrests"



https://twitter.com/aaronjohnpeters/status/377516476716290048


----------



## emanymton (Sep 11, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Where did I say that? There's some confusion here I think, although that's not surprising it was a quite confusing situation at the time, maybe my recollection isn't perfect, I don't know tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Could be the time of day getting confused, over on the SWP thread I thought you said you said you tried to push it if the corner against the wishes of UAF. But I think that might have been earlier in the day while spinney was talking about latter? Can we all agree that UAF strategy on the day was shit?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 11, 2013)

emanymton said:


> Could be the time of day getting confused, over on the SWP thread I thought you said you said you tried to push it if the corner against the wishes of UAF. But I think that might have been earlier in the day while spinney was talking about latter?



I think there's some crossed wires here, but I don't want to be going through it all again. Bad enough having to endure it the first time without re-living the horrors.

I don't even trust my own memory of what went on that day any more, didn't help that I got shitfaced as soon as I got home from Bolton. 



emanymton said:


> Can we all agree that UAF strategy on the day was shit?



Yup, no arguments from me on that one. I've avoided UAF like the plague ever since. 

The only people who are winning in this EDL/UAF merry go round are the police, who've got an easy way to collect information on right-wing and left-wing protestors they don't like. They're the ones who win, not us.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2013)

Malatesta blog report on Tower Hamlets! Read all abaht it! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/you-cant-break-a-hamlet/


----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 13, 2013)

Chawity walk should be happening now....that chawity being Stevo himself. can anyone with twitter update on wa'gwan.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 13, 2013)

Unconfirmed reports that the EDL are in Hackney?

https://twitter.com/THstopEDL/status/378487211093925888


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Unconfirmed reports that the EDL are in Hackney?
> 
> https://twitter.com/THstopEDL/status/378487211093925888


i would be surprised.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 13, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i would be surprised.


 
Apparently it is the walk to the mosque... like a pilgrimage but stupid. Shoreditch high street now...


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Apparently it is the walk to the mosque... like a pilgrimage but stupid. Shoreditch high street now...


eh? 'by the canal' - 'heading towards dalston'? dalston doesn't seem a desirable destination for deluded fash.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 13, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> eh? 'by the canal' - 'heading towards dalston'? dalston doesn't seem a desirable destination for deluded fash.


 
yes this is beginning to sound even less plausible.... I shall await photos with interest.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2013)

On a friday afternoon? These things regularly popped up down here the week after the last 'big' edl thing in bristol - _OMG the EDL are in fishponds, marching to town!!!!_


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 13, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> On a friday afternoon? These things regularly popped up down here the week after the last 'big' edl thing in bristol - _OMG the EDL are in fishponds, marching to town!!!!_


 
Yeah my first thought was that it was bollocks, but then people were saying it was the walk to the mosque as Limerick Red mentioned.


----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 13, 2013)

That twitter feed is legit, not sure how many Stevo has with him, but is planing on walking the parimeter of TH


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 13, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> That twitter feed is legit, not sure how many Stevo has with him, but is planing on walking the parimeter of TH


 
If that twitter feed is right, he is going completely the wrong way.


----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 13, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> If that twitter feed is right, he is going completely the wrong way.


apparently Stevo has 6 with him and 2 film crew, and is currently lost in London Fields.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 13, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> apparently Stevo has 6 with him and 2 film crew, and is currently lost in London Fields.


 
On a charity walk?

The film is going to be a "must see".


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> apparently Stevo has 6 with him and 2 film crew, and is currently lost in London Fields.



Why the fuck are they in Hackney?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 13, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Why the fuck are they in Hackney?


 
Sounds like Tommy was going to walk the boundary of Tower Hamlets, but got lost?

Unless this is some bizarre Iain Sinclair tribute?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2013)




----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 13, 2013)

Stevo and friends are in Westfields now, havin a bite ta eat. Fair aul way to go yet, if he plans on walking the parimeter of TH.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2013)

24 miles or some shit init?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 13, 2013)

tommy the feminista!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...=a.49095038444.61796.649798444&type=1&theater
and tommy the fucken bugle
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...65766740127647&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf
and
https://twitter.com/THstopEDL


----------



## Fingers (Sep 13, 2013)

Quick update,

The out of shape twat started two hours late due to fannying around and stuffing his face. he has been harassed by locals, got piss wet through and is only at Stratford which by my calculations is only about a quarter of the way round. A third at best.  He will not be finished until very late and heavy rain is forecast for this evening which makes me happy.

The clowns have Dave Bolton and Roger 'heart attack' Firth shadowing them for back up in the 'support car' but had to abandon the support car after the hapless halfwits came under fire from some locals.

He accidentaly strayed into Tower hamlets but the police let it go as they have spent most of their day so far completely lost so I reckon the 24 miles walk will be more like 30 taking into account all the not being able to read a map fuckwittery.

He is not raising money for charity, he is raising money for himself to pay his way out of the high Court costs he has to cough up to to Met Police otherwise he will end up in the clink for 28 days.  The fact that their website has been taken down again and no one can donate through it has hindered his money collecting and he is blaming it on the establishment.

We expect there will be further bad news for him in the coming days which will render all this a complete waste of time for everyone concerned. Watch this space....


----------



## tony.c (Sep 13, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Why the fuck are they in Hackney?


 He said at the Aldgate rally that he would walk the perimeter of Tower Hamlets every Friday for sponsorship to pay the £8,000 he claims he has to pay towards the Met's legal costs for his legal challenge.
Also to cost the Met more in policing costs.
Fridays because it's the day Muslims go to mosque.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 13, 2013)

So some calculations. Taking into account they have achieved 7 miles since they started at midday and it is now getting on for 5pm, by my reckoning they have been stumbling along at 1.4 mph. They have 17 miles to go so should finish up about 4am, sooner if one of them gets the map the correct way up.

My cash is on them not making it, especially if Roger Firth snuffs it en route. That would be an excellent excuse to can the whole thing.  This also has to take into account Dave Bolton staying sober and not getting arrested for being pissed up and lairy like he did after the Hull demo.


----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 13, 2013)




----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 13, 2013)

yip looks about 7 miles.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 13, 2013)

Shouldn't someone tell him he's going in the wrong direction?


----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 13, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Shouldn't someone tell him he's going in the wrong direction?


Well its roughly the right direction.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 13, 2013)

Perhaps he's just going to do a bit every Friday then.
Lightweight.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Perhaps he's just going to do a bit every Friday then.



I hope so.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 13, 2013)

And how the fuck did they end up in Stratford?


----------



## Fingers (Sep 13, 2013)

Heh, Tommy is claiming he only has eight miles left to go.  This is going to get canned in the next couple of hours


----------



## Fingers (Sep 13, 2013)

Or is he heading to Woolwich via avoiding Tower Hamlets?


----------



## tony.c (Sep 13, 2013)

Fingers said:


> The fact that their website has been taken down again and no one can donate through it has hindered his money collecting and he is blaming it on the establishment.


 
Bastards.


----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 13, 2013)

Reckon he has no intention of doing the south side of the parimeter, will say something about the river, and claim he's done it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2013)

another fine outing for the voice of the master race then


----------



## Fingers (Sep 13, 2013)

I reckon he had bottled it and is doing the original route to woolwich which he was nicked for


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 13, 2013)

Cold, overweight, out of shape and exhausted. 

Must be a prime time to do a hit on that bad case of small man syndrome.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Quick update,
> 
> The out of shape twat started two hours late due to fannying around and stuffing his face. he has been harassed by locals, got piss wet through and is only at Stratford which by my calculations is only about a quarter of the way round. A third at best.  He will not be finished until very late and heavy rain is forecast for this evening which makes me happy.
> 
> ...


do you mean he'll die of hypothermia over the weekend? must be on the cards


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> Cold, overweight, out of shape and exhausted.
> 
> Must be a prime time to do a hit on that bad case of small man syndrome.


will no one point out he's in the wrong postcode?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Stevo and friends are in Westfields now, havin a bite ta eat. Fair aul way to go yet, if he plans on walking the parimeter of TH.


how could he get *so* lost? it's fucking ridiculous! he must have a shed full of london a-z's.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 13, 2013)

It is pissing down more than it has for months.  Miserable day for the lost racist souls


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 14, 2013)

Obviously Allah controls the weather if nothing else


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 14, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Quick update,.



great update that and thanks for keeping us informed. 
im in north london right now and it was absolutely arsing it last night.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 14, 2013)

the 'voice of the working class' - fucking rentier.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 14, 2013)

^^^ Is that where all the money from the edl mugs went?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 14, 2013)

are you referring to the mugs you drink from or the mugs he milks?


----------



## krink (Sep 14, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039rwrl

anti-extremism cop infiltrator talks about edl


----------



## Fingers (Sep 15, 2013)

Looks like they got themselves in a bit of bother by hanging around looking shifty outside celebrities houses 

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...edl-leaders-held-over-tulisa-kidnapping-fears


----------



## Corax (Sep 15, 2013)

krink said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039rwrl
> 
> anti-extremism cop infiltrator talks about edl


Interesting.

Bit bizarre when around 4m he says _"the EDL say 'we don't actually condone that, and we certainly don't want people doing that it our name'"_.  The obvious response is that if "the EDL" is anything, it's the likes of Yaxley-Lennon and Carroll, and there's plenty of documented racism from the 'Leadership'.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 16, 2013)

Tommy did his sponsored walk last week through the City of London. Just him and two others and loads of journo's. No police turned up which was interesting.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2013)

TC apparently he was harassed by antifscists and their 'support car' was also attacked by local youth! i think fingers posted something on it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2013)

eek!
http://ipswichspy.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/thugs-force-pub-closure-cancelling-anti-racism-gig/
12 bands, 65 punters (?) and they were intimidated by a handful of piss artists? fucken hell.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> eek!
> http://ipswichspy.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/thugs-force-pub-closure-cancelling-anti-racism-gig/
> 12 bands, 65 punters (?) and they were intimidated by a handful of piss artists? fucken hell.



I know imagine that a 16 year old intimidated by a gang of thugs!!!!


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 16, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> Stevo and friends are in Westfields now, havin a bite ta eat. Fair aul way to go yet, if he plans on walking the parimeter of TH.


am I missing something here? Only Westfields is certainly not in TH. Not even close


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 16, 2013)

setting off now


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 16, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> setting off now


shaddap!
(point got though)


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I know imagine that a 16 year old intimidated by a gang of thugs!!!!



not the 16 yr old - fair play to em getting organised - but 65 punters plus 12 bands (48 members in all approx)is over 100 people. there were barely a dozen EDL. did they not think there may be a possibility of them turning up? Did LMHR not offer advice?  its given em an easy 'victory.'


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2013)

not everyone is handy or can do physical confrontation


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> not the 16 yr old - fair play to em getting organised - but 65 punters plus 12 bands (48 members in all approx)is over 100 people. there were barely a dozen EDL. did they not think there may be a possibility of them turning up? Did LMHR not offer advice?  its given em an easy 'victory.'



whether people are handy or not I think the antis made the right decision here, there is a time and a place for every tactic and sometimes showing your enemy up to be spoilsport thugs and bullies is a sensible approach for all sorts of reasons.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2013)

hey spanks, i see your point - EDL stop kids music is bad PR (do they ever get good PR). i am not calling for a full on street fight but these things need stewarding properly. if you hold an anti-EDL gig then you must countenance the possibility they may show up. LMHR have put on loads of gigs so they should have advice over this... anyway, recently read an old ANL/RAR leaflet on protecting anti-fascist gigs which recommended getting your 'heavies'' to do the door.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> hey spanks, i see your point - EDL stop kids music is bad PR (do they ever get good PR). i am not calling for a full on street fight but these things need stewarding properly. if you hold an anti-EDL gig then you must countenance the possibility they may show up. LMHR have put on loads of gigs so they should have advice over this... anyway, recently read an old ANL/RAR leaflet on protecting anti-fascist gigs which recommended getting your 'heavies'' to do the door.



I agree with this and agree UAF/LMHR have done this sort of thing before where they have left nice people in the lurch and potentially in danger


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2013)

SWP/ morning star paper sales seem to be open targets as well. altho its a piss poor political strategy it does give them confidence and the feeling that they are 'doing something.'


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 16, 2013)

also, some of the more experienced AFA members on here cd give really helpful advice on stewarding gigs to distribute around various websites etc. it only takes half a dozen serous looking characters on the door to rebuff twice as many.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> SWP/ morning star paper sales seem to be open targets as well. altho its a piss poor political strategy it does give them confidence and the feeling that they are 'doing something.'


 Trouble is that the swappies in the UAF/LMHR and on the paper sales think that if people organise to defend gigs, meetings and street events they will turn into  squaddists, replacing 'mass opposition' with individual 'terrorism'.
They would rather see people get a kicking than that.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> SWP/ morning star paper sales seem to be open targets as well. altho its a piss poor political strategy it does give them confidence and the feeling that they are 'doing something.'


The SWP always used to be a soft target and one that was always easy to locate. The problems with ignoring the attacks is that their confidence grows leading to more actions.


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 16, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Trouble is that the swappies in the UAF/LMHR and on the paper sales think that if people organise to defend gigs, meetings and street events they will turn into  squaddists, replacing 'mass opposition' with individual 'terrorism'.
> They would rather see people get a kicking than that.


also, that the Swappies are mainly interested in exploiting LMHR/UAF for their own short term sectarian ends


----------



## TopCat (Sep 16, 2013)

I think it wise to look at protecting SWP targets that have been repeatedly attacked. Leaving them to their own devices might be justifiable but will lead to attacks elsewhere.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 16, 2013)

It's funny that the EDL actually put this up because it makes them think that it makes them look like victims rather than dicks


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 16, 2013)

TopCat said:


> I think it wise to look at protecting SWP targets that have been repeatedly attacked. Leaving them to their own devices might be justifiable but will lead to attacks elsewhere.


grudgingly agreed


----------



## FNG (Sep 16, 2013)

Similar number that attempted to disrupt a UAF public meeting in ipswich at the unite offices back in june
http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/unite-joins-anti-fascist-march-in-ipswich-on-sunday/


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 16, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It's funny that the EDL actually put this up because it makes them think that it makes them look like victims rather than dicks



a sense of victimhood is absolutely central to their collective psychology


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Sep 16, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> a sense of victimhood is absolutely central to their collective psychology


The donations must of picked up, he is buying Armani there by the look of it.


----------



## Corax (Sep 16, 2013)

J Ed said:


> It's funny that the EDL actually put this up because it makes them think that it makes them look like victims rather than dicks



Any idea what happened to shop blokey?  Security fella sounded supportive, but would be good to know if he was backed by shop management.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 16, 2013)

Corax said:


> Any idea what happened to shop blokey?  Security fella sounded supportive, but would be good to know if he was backed by shop management.


EDL are trying to get him sacked. People have been emailing customerservices@selfridges.com to tell them they support the staff.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 16, 2013)

TopCat said:


> I think it wise to look at protecting SWP targets that have been repeatedly attacked. Leaving them to their own devices might be justifiable but will lead to attacks elsewhere.


 They won't appreciate it. They are likely to call the police to remove you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2013)

Streathamite said:


> a sense of victimhood is absolutely central to their collective psychology


they ARE victims tho of a conspiracy which only exists in their minds.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> also, some of the more experienced AFA members on here cd give really helpful advice on stewarding gigs to distribute around various websites etc. it only takes half a dozen serous looking characters on the door to rebuff twice as many.


you don't need to have been in the auld stewards' group to know that having *some* security will deter. yet even this simple observation seems beyond the grasp of some of our swappie 'brethren'.


----------



## Corax (Sep 16, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> EDL are trying to get him sacked. People have been emailing customerservices@selfridges.com to tell them they support the staff.


Done.


----------



## Streathamite (Sep 16, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> they ARE victims tho of a conspiracy which only exists in their minds.


very true. Paranoia is also central to the fash psyche


----------



## krink (Sep 16, 2013)

that thing in ipswich - i heard that it was the cops who told the pub to pull the gig. so the cops are intimidated by ipswich edl.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 17, 2013)

so plod and fascists are determining who gets to play gigs and promote anti-racism now?


----------



## Fingers (Sep 17, 2013)

One of their paedophiles has gone missing 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...sh-defence-league-paedophile-hunted-by-police


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 17, 2013)

Anyone know if this is the same 'Mark Sleman' who became something of a jailhouse lawyer when previously inside?


----------



## krink (Sep 17, 2013)

http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/blogs/searchlight-blog/tower-hamlets-stands-firm-against-edl

Gerry Gable has a go at AFN and admits to working with cops - enough to get afn comrades nicked? this combined with the rumour that uaf knew the mass arrest was planned..



> Sometime before 7 September we had word that a small anti-fascist faction would try to kick things off. This group did not take part in any of the planning meetings, although I am sure they would have been allowed a representative on our steering group, but chose to do their own thing. Our attitude was that the police plan was in the best interests of the community and that if this faction broke away, they would only end up getting kettled.
> 
> At the park they stood with a large banner at the back before pulling out, but unlike in 2011 nobody really wanted to give them political house room. Fewer than 400 rushed off, were kettled and served with section 12 and 14 notices. They have apparently been banned from attending any EDL gatherings.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 17, 2013)

Wow. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/17/selfridges-tommy-robinson_n_3940378.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

I've never been inside a Selfridges before, but I will make an extra point of never going into one in the future now!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 17, 2013)

krink said:


> Gerry Gable...admits to working with cops



Any chance you can pop down the shops and get me a long weight, a tin of striped paint (1.5l), a big box of sparks for the grinder, 50 feet of fallopian tube and a left-handed hammer? Ta.


----------



## shifting gears (Sep 17, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Any chance you can pop down the shops and get me a long weight, a tin of striped paint (1.5l), a big box of sparks for the grinder, 50 feet of fallopian tube and a left-handed hammer? Ta.



We need a couple more skyhooks too


----------



## cesare (Sep 17, 2013)

shifting gears said:


> We need a couple more skyhooks too


Don't forget the wall-stretchers.


----------



## shifting gears (Sep 17, 2013)

Must admit I hadn't heard the Fallopian tube one before


----------



## krink (Sep 17, 2013)

yes yes very funny, you all know what i meant


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 17, 2013)

A bubble for my spirit level?


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 17, 2013)

EDL doing their bit for England in Selfridges 



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 17, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> A bubble for my spirit level?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 18, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/17/selfridges-worked-facing-dismissal-refusal-edl absolutely disgusting


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 18, 2013)

very neat dave! regarding the mass arrest, when we got to the park after mooching around we saw that plod had effectively sealed the area off and as we nicked off to avoid being mass kettled we walked down to the blind beggar and past a line of plod. one of our mob said that they were 'gonna close the door.' too bleeidin' right they were. they had to kettle to black bloc who were out of that zone and then contain the park.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 18, 2013)

from gerry! 
'Sometime before 7 September we had word that a small anti-fascist faction would try to kick things off. This group did not take part in any of the planning meetings, although I am sure they would have been allowed a representative on our steering group, but chose to do their own thing. Our attitude was that the police plan was in the best interests .' 
nuff sed?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 18, 2013)

the guy is a fucken spiv!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...robinson-casino-_n_3940026.html?utm_hp_ref=tw


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Sep 18, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


>




Are you supposed to put spunk bubbles in spirit levels?


----------



## miktheword (Sep 18, 2013)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/17/selfridges-worked-facing-dismissal-refusal-edl absolutely disgusting


 

no further action taken     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24145261

if they had a sense of humour, the meal/apology should've been halal


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 18, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Wow. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/17/selfridges-tommy-robinson_n_3940378.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
> 
> I've never been inside a Selfridges before, but I will make an extra point of never going into one in the future now!


Do they sell fridges


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 18, 2013)

Got himself a meal out of it.


----------



## pissflaps (Sep 18, 2013)

floor 4 - jackboots, st georges flags and stella.


----------



## Limerick Red (Sep 18, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> from gerry!
> 'Sometime before 7 September we had word that a small anti-fascist faction would try to kick things off. This group did not take part in any of the planning meetings, although I am sure they would have been allowed a representative on our steering group, but chose to do their own thing. Our attitude was that the police plan was in the best interests .'
> nuff sed?


fuck me, if there were 5000, there as gable claims, heres a video of a 2,500 strong black block


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 19, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Got himself a meal out of it.


he usually makes a meal out of any scrap of publicity anyway. used car salesman.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 19, 2013)

.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 19, 2013)

Cornwall Division have been putting posters up. The buggers.


> MEMBERS of a controversial Islam protest group have confirmed they are attracting support from Cornish people who do not want to see the county “ruined by mosques”.
> 
> Posters, stickers and graffiti in support of the English Defence League (EDL), a group dedicated to the eradication of extreme Islamic beliefs, have recently sprung up on the back of road signs in Truro, St Agnes, Scorrier, Towan Cross, Carnon Downs and Lanner.
> 
> ...


----------



## Dan U (Sep 19, 2013)

wonder how those 'home rule' stickers go down with the Freedom for Kernow lot.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2013)

Dan U said:


> wonder how those 'home rule' stickers go down with the Freedom for Kernow lot.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> he usually makes a meal out of any scrap of publicity anyway. used car salesman.


wot no post about lennon being barred from every casino in the country?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 19, 2013)

got something even 'juicier' but cant say yet! 
anyway, casinos ... 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...robinson-on-national-casino-troublemaker-list


----------



## tony.c (Sep 19, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> fuck me, if there were 5000, there as gable claims, heres a video of a 2,500 strong black block


I was there LR. I would estimate there was around 1,000 in and around Altab Ali Park at 1300, with people coming and going. The AFN/Black Block left at 1300. Shortly after a number of locals left for a service at the Mosque, and members of the local Inter Faith Group also left to stand outside the Mosque in solidarity.
At about 1320 the platform speakers called on us to occupy the Whitechapel Road. I was a bit worried as there seemed to be about only 3-400 left, but we did move into the road. I thought the OB would move in but they didn't.
I guess there must have been an agreement between the organisers and OB to allow this.
I was still worried by the lack of numbers, but after 1345, when the Mosque service finished, hundreds of locals came to join the blockade from the direction of the Mosque, and there was a steady stream of people coming from the Aldgate side, presumably arriving from Aldgate and Aldgate East underground stations.
By the time the EDL arrived at Aldgate I would estimate there was between 4-5,000 people blockading the Whitechapel Road.
Gable's figures might be slightly exaggerated. Doesn't every protest organiser do that? But not by too much. And if the AFN had stayed instead of going off to get kettled and nicked, the total would have been around 5,000.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 19, 2013)

that sounds about right TC. 
plod had formed a line across the road near the mosque so when everyone occupied the road, they could still be sealed in. AFN had no intention of standing about listening to the speakers (neither did we) so they went off to ambush the march further south (we went for samosas). 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/you-cant-break-a-hamlet/
our version.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 19, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> got something even 'juicier' but cant say yet!
> anyway, casinos ...
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...robinson-on-national-casino-troublemaker-list


He's had his chips then!
(I thought I'd beat bignose to the pun!)


----------



## krink (Sep 19, 2013)

tony.c said:


> if the AFN had stayed instead of going off to get kettled and nicked, the total would have been around 5,000.



on the other hand, if everyone had gone with the AFN.....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 19, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> got something even 'juicier' but cant say yet!
> anyway, casinos ...
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...robinson-on-national-casino-troublemaker-list


----------



## Corax (Sep 19, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Cornwall Division have been putting posters up. The buggers.


It's a few years since I spent much time in Cornwall, but last time I was there I was indeed astounded by how many mosques there were, that all the food was halal, and how you could hardly spot a white face in the street.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2013)

Corax said:


> It's a few years since I spent much time in Cornwall, but last time I was there I was indeed astounded by how many mosques there were, that all the food was halal, and how you could hardly spot a white face in the street.


how drunk were you?


----------



## Corax (Sep 19, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> how drunk were you?


Not at all, because the sale of alcohol had been banned across the entire county.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2013)

Corax said:


> Not at all, because the sale of alcohol had been banned across the entire county.


i think you'll find you weren't in cornwall as about 1/4 adults in cornwall drinks a fair amount with 5% - or 22,500 - drinking themselves into oblivion every day


----------



## Corax (Sep 19, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you'll find you weren't in cornwall as about 1/4 adults in cornwall drinks a fair amount with 5% - or 22,500 - drinking themselves into oblivion every day


Is the battery in your sarcasm meter dead?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2013)

Corax said:


> Is the battery in your sarcasm meter dead?


i'm sorry i didn't think you capable of even the lowest form of wit.


----------



## Corax (Sep 19, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm sorry i didn't think you capable of even the lowest form of wit.


At least it's wit at all etc...


----------



## Fingers (Sep 19, 2013)

Idiocy on this level takes quite some doing but the EDL have managed to leak their own donors list for all to see

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...efence-league-publish-their-own-donors-online


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 19, 2013)

krink said:


> on the other hand, if everyone had gone with the AFN.....



krinks, plod had it tight and they managed to kettle a lot of folk. they were ready for it.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 19, 2013)

Dan U said:


> wonder how those 'home rule' stickers go down with the Freedom for Kernow lot.


 Not well. One comment was something like now the English know what its like to be oppressed by a majority.


----------



## love detective (Sep 19, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Idiocy on this level takes quite some doing but the EDL have managed to leak their own donors list for all to see
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...efence-league-publish-their-own-donors-online



It's not quite that though is it - the donations page on their website gives the option to either disclose your details or keep them anonymous. The names displayed on their website are the ones who chose not to make an anonymous donation


----------



## bignose1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Corax said:


> It's a few years since I spent much time in Cornwall, but last time I was there I was indeed astounded by how many mosques there were, that all the food was halal, and how you could hardly spot a white face in the street.


Tommy dont surf


----------



## tony.c (Sep 20, 2013)

Corax said:


> all the food was halal


Are the Cornish Pasties halal now?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 20, 2013)

tony.c said:


> Are the Cornish Pasties halal now?


"Wh-ha-aaat?!"


----------



## pissflaps (Sep 20, 2013)

christ, cunteron is looking a bit slim? has he got bad cancer?


----------



## albionism (Sep 20, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> "Wh-ha-aaat?!"


He looks absolutely mortified at having to eat prole food.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 21, 2013)

infidels in blackburn today in their last hurraah before all getting sent down next week for assaulting antifascists. EDL in sheffield to thin the numbers out today.  report to follow.


----------



## belboid (Sep 21, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL in sheffield to thin the numbers out today.  report to follow.


About 300 of them, outnumbering us, but not the vast number of coppers. They stood outside the pub (which isn't being turned into a mosque) and are just being bussed off. All a bit dull.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 23, 2013)

good photos
http://www.annabruce-stills.com/2013/09/edl-march-in-sheffield.html
same old shite.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Sep 23, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Cornwall Division have been putting posters up. The buggers.



It was probably Meltingpot wot dun it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 24, 2013)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-outside-night--say-making-documentary.html

He was probably just there to score some Charlie!


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Sep 24, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> good photos
> http://www.annabruce-stills.com/2013/09/edl-march-in-sheffield.html
> same old shite.


That is the master race yeah?
 PMSL


----------



## treelover (Sep 24, 2013)

Not as sartorial as "ill fitting suits"


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 24, 2013)

Poor people, lol.


----------



## Corax (Sep 24, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> good photos
> http://www.annabruce-stills.com/2013/09/edl-march-in-sheffield.html
> same old shite.








Er... wut?


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 24, 2013)

It's Norman Schwarzkopf's Mini-Me


----------



## Fingers (Sep 24, 2013)

Oh noes, PR disaster
*Exclusive: The Northampton Clown overtakes the English Defence League in popularity*

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...hampton-clown-overtakes-the-edl-in-popularity


----------



## Fingers (Sep 24, 2013)

Corax said:


> Er... wut?



Did he have to have that specially made?


----------



## tony.c (Sep 26, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Did he have to have that specially made?


 Nah, probably bought it from Toys R Us.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Sep 26, 2013)

thought the Divvyman had got a new special going to jail jacket


----------



## The Black Hand (Sep 26, 2013)

DATE FOR YOUR DIARY - HARTLEPOOL NOVEMBER 30th
This is the first in a series of call outs by the North East Anti Fascists to all concerned - watch this space for a location for our mobilisation - to be announced on Friday 29th November at midday.

Introduction

We had hoped that this day would not come. However, the united forces of the boot boys of capital - the racists & fascists in the form of the North East Infidels, in an unholy alliance with the EDL, NF and any old Nazi are promoting a demo in Hartlepool on November 30th 2013. 

The stated objective of the fascists is "ONCE AGAIN THE NORTHEAST WILL JOIN FORCES TO BRING TO ATTENTION THE RISE IN THE ISLAMIC COMMUNITY IN HARTLEPOOL BRINGING CRIME AND POVERTY INTO A ONCE VIBRANT TOWN" which would be hilarious if it wasn't so stupid. 

A simple answer to Infidels shite would be that it is economics that ruined Hartlepool, or to give it the technical term, 'capital flight', which took large industrial employers out of the area with all the knock on effects this brings. The 'Islamic community' did not and does not control that. The fascists function to divide and distract people away from the real cause of problems, and that is capitalism.

However, we all know the dangers that such mobilisations of drunken racists and fascists bring to all, but especially those of Asian heritage. Therefore we call on all progressive & sound thinking people to oppose the spread of such racism & ignorance; to confront the fascists and to show that there is a better way than mindless prejudice and hatred, and to campaign together for a better life for all. Unity is our solution and solidarity is our method, contact the North East Anti Fascists to get involved.

Here is the broken link to the Infidels eventhttps://www.facebook.com/events/ 1412734645611509/

Hartlepool Against Fascism; https://www.facebook.com/groups/604166696294417/

https://www.facebook.com/NorthEast.AntiFascists


----------



## tony.c (Sep 26, 2013)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> thought the Divvyman had got a new special going to jail jacket


----------



## Serotonin (Sep 26, 2013)

http://casualsunitedDOTwordpress.com

A national demo in Stokes Croft Bristol on 7th December to protest the possible opening of a new mosque. Anyone know any more details? Can't see this will end well.


----------



## krink (Sep 26, 2013)

plastic football hooligan said


> We will support this demo for the footsoldiers who are arranging it. Stokes Croft is an area of Bristol infested with Commies and Anarchists who regularly boast online of burning police cars and Capitalist stores. A bunch of scum



there you go bristol anarchists, the end is nigh


----------



## Fingers (Sep 26, 2013)

Heads up:
Diddyman and co are being sentence at 2pm and there are brown trousers all around from what i have heard. Those up before the beak are:

Shane Calvert aka Diddy - looking at the heftiest sentence of the lot
Peter Hawley
Liam Pinkham - contender for HMP Walton nonce wing
Nathan Smith
Michael Kearns
The Ice Cream Kid - who cannot be named as he is/was 17


----------



## krink (Sep 26, 2013)

various sentences from 5 to 17 months. ah well, fuck them!


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 26, 2013)

What a thing to get jailed for. What was the point?


----------



## krink (Sep 26, 2013)

fantasists, think they're in some semi-political version of Football Factory film.


----------



## Corax (Sep 26, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Did he have to have that specially made?


The tiny soldier uniform is one thing.  But I was more mystified at the US flag tbh.  Is there some sort of exchange programme with a USDL?


----------



## Fingers (Sep 26, 2013)

They all got banged up

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...fidels-jailed-for-violent-attack-in-liverpool


----------



## Corax (Sep 26, 2013)

Fingers said:


> They all got banged up
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...fidels-jailed-for-violent-attack-in-liverpool


I feel for the people of Liverpool.  Who will protect them against sharia now?


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Sep 26, 2013)

That little one, calvert will be someones bitch by the weekend. He looks like a scared rabbit on demos they hold, let alone in the shower block of HMP Walton.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 26, 2013)

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/right-wing-thugs-locked-up-after-6100974


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Sep 26, 2013)

here is Baby Fash Dumbmont sporting a Blood n Honour t-shirt a few months back - good fuck riddence


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 26, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> That little one, calvert will be someones bitch by the weekend. He looks like a scared rabbit on demos they hold, let alone in the shower block of HMP Walton.



Rape, lol.


----------



## Corax (Sep 26, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> Rape, lol.


Quite.


----------



## framed (Sep 26, 2013)

Did their 'opponents' who were attacked give evidence against them in court, or did all the fash plead guilty?

Those 'someone's bitch' and 'rape' jibes are contemptible, I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy, and I consider the fash to be my worst enemies. Sort them out physically by all means, but don't encourage some lowlife jail rapist to satisfy your urges for you...


----------



## Fingers (Sep 26, 2013)

Oh deary me. Looks like Guramit has absconded and is on the run from the fuzz after getting jailed for six and a half years  for a violent shop robbery

[url]http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/1202-top-edl-leader-guramit-singh-absconds-after-violent-shop-robbery[/URL]


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Sep 26, 2013)

framed said:


> Did their 'opponents' who were attacked give evidence against them in court, or did all the fash plead guilty?
> 
> Those 'someone's bitch' and 'rape' jibes are contemptible, I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy, and I consider the fash to be my worst enemies. Sort them out physically by all means, but don't encourage some lowlife jail rapist to satisfy your urges for you...


It might help him come to terms with his sexuality problems. Remember "only nonces and grasses wear moustaches"


----------



## shifting gears (Sep 26, 2013)

Vile by name...


----------



## keybored (Sep 26, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> It might help him come to terms with his sexuality problems.



Says someone who is fantasising about prison rape.


----------



## framed (Sep 26, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> It might help him come to terms with his sexuality problems. Remember "only nonces and grasses wear moustaches"



You're obviously a fucking tit who has never spent a minute behind bars, now fuck off you rape fantasist...


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Sep 26, 2013)

framed said:


> You're obviously a fucking tit who has never spent a minute behind bars, now fuck off you rape fantasist...


Do you muppets not see how far away you are from normal working class people. You are the reasons why we are stuck with everyone associating anti-fascism with boring middle class UAF liberals, because that is what you stink off. How the fuck could you talk with a normal lad on a building site or in a pub, you self righteous cunt.


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 26, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Do you muppets not see how far away you are from normal working class people. You are the reasons why we are stuck with everyone associating anti-fascism with boring middle class UAF liberals, because that is what you stink off. How the fuck could you talk with a normal lad on a building site or in a pub, you self righteous cunt.


Ha ha ha I have to have a snigger at this, knowing the guy you're having a pop at here... ha ha ha
framed ya middle class liberal


----------



## framed (Sep 26, 2013)

Aye, that's me told, eh? 

Not sharing Mr Vile's prison rape fantasy translates as being _'far away from normal working class people'_.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 26, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Do you muppets not see how far away you are from normal working class people. You are the reasons why we are stuck with everyone associating anti-fascism with boring middle class UAF liberals, because that is what you stink off. How the fuck could you talk with a normal lad on a building site or in a pub, you self righteous cunt.



Fuck off

You're sincerely: A Normal Lad


----------



## manny-p (Sep 26, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Do you muppets not see how far away you are from normal working class people. You are the reasons why we are stuck with everyone associating anti-fascism with boring middle class UAF liberals, because that is what you stink off. How the fuck could you talk with a normal lad on a building site or in a pub, you self righteous cunt.


Wind your neck in or you will get your cunt kicked in.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Sep 26, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Wind your neck in or you will get your cunt kicked in.



Is there any fucking need for that? Jesus christ.


----------



## Red Storm (Sep 27, 2013)

Where does this strange leftist ideal of working class people being Neanderthal type creatures come from? 

Perhaps you can give us a objective answer from your lofty liberal middle class heights Framed?


----------



## Fingers (Sep 27, 2013)

Anyway, aside from all the bickering, has anyone seen kermit?

http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...mit-singh-absconds-after-violent-shop-robbery


----------



## pissflaps (Sep 27, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Wind your neck in or you will get your cunt kicked in.


hahah, you utter berk.


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Sep 27, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Wind your neck in or you will get your cunt kicked in.


Being a small world I know exactly who you are, and I look forward to you repeating this to my face.
A.C. warned about the Tooting popular front on this forum, I should of listened................


----------



## pissflaps (Sep 27, 2013)

should HAVE listened. you illiterate buffoon.


----------



## manny-p (Sep 27, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> Is there any fucking need for that? Jesus christ.


Yeah hes a rape fantasist.


----------



## albionism (Sep 27, 2013)

.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Being a small world I know exactly who you are, and I look forward to you repeating this to my face.



Should I open a book? what odds have we for the vile vs manny fight?

will there be a weigh in?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2013)

Who is A. C?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 27, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Who is A. C?


The jheri-curled kid from _Saved By The Bell_.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2013)

Prison rape fantasies equates normal and only middle class folk who never frequent pubs or building sites are likely to object.


----------



## love detective (Sep 27, 2013)

yeah, what is it with these middle class people and not liking a bit of the rape, fucking pussies

all working class men and women love a bit of the rape when their watching their tellies with their pot noodles


----------



## cesare (Sep 27, 2013)

love detective said:


> yeah, what is it with these middle class people and not liking a bit of the rape, fucking pussies
> 
> all working class men and women love a bit of the rape when their watching their tellies with their pot noodles


On their building sites.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 27, 2013)

Prisoner Cell Block Rape. 9pm, Prole tv.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> That little one, calvert will be someones bitch by the weekend. He looks like a scared rabbit on demos they hold, let alone in the shower block of HMP Walton.



We're not in America.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 27, 2013)

love detective said:


> yeah, what is it with these middle class people and not liking a bit of the rape, fucking pussies
> 
> all working class men and women love a bit of the rape when their watching their tellies with their pot noodles



I read that as poodles


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 27, 2013)

Dan U said:


> I read that as poodles



Not Poodles!


----------



## framed (Sep 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Being a small world I know exactly who you are, and I look forward to you repeating this to my face.
> A.C. warned about the Tooting popular front on this forum, I should of listened................



You are a clueless fool, but please keep digging... 







Maybe A.C. (Andy Capp perhaps?) should've also told you that you're on the wrong site to be airing your fantasies about prison rape, Mr Voice Of The Working Class...






_"Power To The Sheeple"_


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 27, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Being a small world I know exactly who you are, and I look forward to you repeating this to my face.



You're not the hardest internet hard man.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 27, 2013)

Everyone's hard on the internet FACT


----------



## Corax (Sep 27, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Everyone's hard on the internet FACT


I'm hard _right now_.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 27, 2013)

Corax said:


> I'm hard _right now_.



i'm always hard on the internet, thank google images for that.


----------



## framed (Sep 27, 2013)

Corax said:


> I'm hard _right now_.



Be careful, statements like that might just trigger more fantasies for Mr Vile...


----------



## Corax (Sep 27, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> i'm always hard on the internet, thank google images for that.


I just hijack Jeremy Vile's webcam.


----------



## framed (Sep 27, 2013)

Corax said:


> I just hijack Jeremy Vile's webcam.


----------



## pissflaps (Sep 27, 2013)

Jeremy is the least hard of all the world's names.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 27, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> Jeremy is the least hard of all the world's names.



Jeremy and Quentin having and arm wrestle - Who's your money on? Though I reckon both Jeremy and Quentin would use Ptolemy as a mop.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 27, 2013)

How hard can somebody who's never even burned down an imaginary pub be?


----------



## intersol32 (Sep 27, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> What a thing to get jailed for. What was the point?



Trying to get my head around this too.

I'm guessing that the old marching about, getting kettled and abused, isn't allowing them to give reign to their paramilitary fantasies. However, running through the city centre and bashing a young lad and has father doesn't exactly wreath you in glory either. Especially since they all got gripped afterwards.

I reckon it'll shake a few of them up to the point where post-prison they'll duck out. The rest who try and stick with it will just get threatened with further jail time if they try anything like it again. It also wouldn't surprise me if one or two have already been approached (and turned) by the Special Branch.

Seems like the NWI are trying to form themselves into a C18 type outfit - with the same consequences.


----------



## LiamO (Sep 27, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> How hard can somebody who's never even burned down an imaginary pub be?



Is _that_ who Jeremy Vile is? LoooooooooooooL


----------



## LiamO (Sep 27, 2013)

Corax said:


> Er... wut?



does anyone know the big fella in the brown jumper behind the poison dwarf? He looks very familiar to me, but not from politics I don't think.


----------



## Fingers (Sep 28, 2013)

Prison roundup http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...er-corner/1204-edl-prison-news-september-2013


----------



## Corax (Sep 28, 2013)

LiamO said:


> does anyone know the big fella in the brown jumper behind the poison dwarf? He looks very familiar to me, but not from politics I don't think.


Me too actually.  Given that we both 'semi-recognise' him I wonder if it's a case of looking a bit like some actor or something?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 28, 2013)

Not sure he meant quite like that...


----------



## Corax (Sep 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Not sure he meant quite that...


Oh?  Not that this is massively unusual, but I suspect I'm missing a big chunk of subtext in that case...


----------



## audiotech (Sep 29, 2013)

Former EDL leader, who allegedly ties people up, threatens to slit their throats, robs them and is now on the run.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...kalirai_n_4001823.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 1, 2013)

the EDL are rapidly looking like little more than a criminal gang.


----------



## audiotech (Oct 1, 2013)

Jeremy Vile said:


> Do you muppets not see how far away you are from normal working class people. You are the reasons why we are stuck with everyone associating anti-fascism with boring middle class UAF liberals, because that is what you stink off. How the fuck could you talk with a normal lad on a building site or in a pub, you self righteous cunt.



Being an apprentice on building sites many moons ago Irish building workers used to get me tanked up on pay day and what they would have me do putting up tower blocks you couldn't imagine. You are talking out of your scraggy arse you tit. Here's some Napalm Death to reflect on:


----------



## albionism (Oct 2, 2013)

Corax said:


> Me too actually.  Given that we both 'semi-recognise' him I wonder if it's a case of looking a bit like some actor or something?


a touch of Sean Pertwee about him?


----------



## framed (Oct 2, 2013)

albionism said:


> a touch of Sean Pertwee about him?View attachment 41330



Add a bouffant wig and there's a touch of Jon Pertwee about him...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 2, 2013)

albionism said:


> a touch of Sean Pertwee about him?View attachment 41330





framed said:


> Add a bouffant wig and there's a touch of Jon Pertwee about him...



Add a blazer with matching badge and tie and there's a touch of Alan Patridge about him.


----------



## framed (Oct 2, 2013)

Nail on the head Dave, I knew I'd seen the fcuker somewhere before... down the local Travelodge!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 2, 2013)

framed said:


> Nail on the head Dave, I knew I'd seen the fcuker somewhere before... down the local Travelodge!


Next time you see him be sure to greet him with a big _knowing-me-knowing-you_ wink.


----------



## Corax (Oct 2, 2013)

Seems Yaxley-Lennon's just (unsuccessfully) attempted to doorstep EDLNews, and posted live updates about it on twitter.


----------



## albionism (Oct 3, 2013)

link?


----------



## Fingers (Oct 3, 2013)

albionism said:


> link?



Here, he has been destroyed on Twitter and has fucked off back to Luton humiliated  

https://twitter.com/EDLTrobinson


----------



## Fingers (Oct 3, 2013)

Been told there is an EDL News article going out tomorrow detailing why, after three years of ignoring them, he is suddenly going after them and trying to pay them visits (in random parts of the country). It co-incides with their increased scrutiny of the little fella's f
inances/(alleged chang funds). It should be fun to see Tommy deny the Tweets he sent last night at some random housing complex.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 3, 2013)

Who does he think he is? The Terminator? Fucking deluded cunt.


----------



## Dynamo (Oct 3, 2013)

By the way concerning the mass arrest of anti-fascist/black block at the September London anti-EDL demo, given that some of those arrested were found to be carrying weapons and given that in previous incidents such people have caused extreme violence you can hardly blame the police from acting to prevent serious disorder and violence against EDL demonstrators. After all that is what the police are there for at demonstrations to try to keep the peace. Had those people obeyed the police order to remain where they were supposed to under the conditions imposed on their demonstration then none would have been arrested. You cannot say that the police acted wrongly when it is clear the intentions of those demonstrators who broke away from the main anti-EDL demo were to cause violence and disorder


----------



## cesare (Oct 3, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> By the way concerning the mass arrest of anti-fascist/black block, given that some of those arrested were found to be carrying weapons and given that in previous incidents such people have caused extreme violence you can hardly blame the police from acting to prevent serious disorder and violence against EDL demonstrators. After all that is what the police are there for at demonstrations to try to keep the peace.



Give us your fucking dinner money


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 3, 2013)

A raw food PUA EDLer?


----------



## ddraig (Oct 3, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> By the way concerning the mass arrest of anti-fascist/black block at the September London anti-EDL demo, given that some of those arrested were found to be carrying weapons and given that in previous incidents such people have caused extreme violence you can hardly blame the police from acting to prevent serious disorder and violence against EDL demonstrators. After all that is what the police are there for at demonstrations to try to keep the peace. Had those people obeyed the police order to remain where they were supposed to under the conditions imposed on their demonstration then none would have been arrested. You cannot say that the police acted wrongly when it is clear the intentions of those demonstrators who broke away from the main anti-EDL demo were to cause violence and disorder


do you think the antis are as violent as the edl supporters?


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 3, 2013)

Dynamo said:
			
		

> By the way concerning the mass arrest of anti-fascist/black block at the September London anti-EDL demo, given that some of those arrested were found to be carrying weapons and given that in previous incidents such people have caused extreme violence you can hardly blame the police from acting to prevent serious disorder and violence against EDL demonstrators. After all that is what the police are there for at demonstrations to try to keep the peace. Had those people obeyed the police order to remain where they were supposed to under the conditions imposed on their demonstration then none would have been arrested. You cannot say that the police acted wrongly when it is clear the intentions of those demonstrators who broke away from the main anti-EDL demo were to cause violence and disorder



How long til you call someone a cunt?


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 3, 2013)

http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/Polic...tory-19880533-detail/story.html#axzz2gfq1XpjE
Oh joy, various spunk trumpets, cock wombles and fuck nuts to hold a 'national demo' in my home town. Twats.


----------



## tony.c (Oct 3, 2013)

It's to make a stand against the halal Cornish Pasties.


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 3, 2013)

tony.c said:


> It's to make a stand against the halal Cornish Pasties.


Exeter is in Devon


----------



## tony.c (Oct 3, 2013)

I never was good at geography - but maybe they aren't either.


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 3, 2013)

ddraig said:


> do you think the antis are as violent as the edl supporters?


Were the fucking good guys


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 3, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Exeter is in Devon


It's all halal cream teas round here.


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 3, 2013)

bignose1 said:


> Were the fucking good guys


Been in my local tonight with some bayern fans who said  that they fancied watching wigan tonight but were put off by the rain....instead we had a great chat about post 1989...and footy too


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 3, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> It's all halal cream teas round here.


You lot get it all wrong too


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 3, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> By the way concerning the mass arrest of anti-fascist/black block at the September London anti-EDL demo, given that some of those arrested were found to be carrying weapons and given that in previous incidents such people have caused extreme violence you can hardly blame the police from acting to prevent serious disorder and violence against EDL demonstrators. After all that is what the police are there for at demonstrations to try to keep the peace. Had those people obeyed the police order to remain where they were supposed to under the conditions imposed on their demonstration then none would have been arrested. You cannot say that the police acted wrongly when it is clear the intentions of those demonstrators who broke away from the main anti-EDL demo were to cause violence and disorder



Sniff my cheese.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 4, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/04/edl-leader-stalks-tweets-wrong-person jesus


----------



## Dynamo (Oct 4, 2013)

ddraig said:


> do you think the antis are as violent as the edl supporters?


Absolutely, the black block/militant anti-fascists have always been extremely violent. It is also strange how they label the EDL fascist for protesting against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism.Yet at the same time have never spoken out or protested themselves against Islamic extremists and Islamic terrorists. On the contrary ever since 9/11 these people have acted as apologists for extremist Islam. I have come across a book which exposes the lefts' alliance with radical Islam: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unholy-Alliance-Radical-Islam-American/dp/0895260263


----------



## krink (Oct 4, 2013)

so, who did dynamo used to be?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 4, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> Absolutely, the black block/militant anti-fascists have always been extremely violent. It is also strange how they label the EDL fascist for protesting against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism.Yet at the same time have never spoken out or protested themselves against Islamic extremists and Islamic terrorists. On the contrary ever since 9/11 these people have acted as apologists for extremist Islam. I have come across a book which exposes the lefts' alliance with radical Islam: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unholy-Alliance-Radical-Islam-American/dp/0895260263


In what way is that strange (ignoring the fact that they have "spoken out or protested themselves against Islamic extremists and Islamic terrorists" for now)


----------



## ddraig (Oct 4, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> Absolutely, the black block/militant anti-fascists have always been extremely violent. It is also strange how they label the EDL fascist for protesting against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism.Yet at the same time have never spoken out or protested themselves against Islamic extremists and Islamic terrorists. On the contrary ever since 9/11 these people have acted as apologists for extremist Islam. I have come across a book which exposes the lefts' alliance with radical Islam: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unholy-Alliance-Radical-Islam-American/dp/0895260263


got any videos with loads of antis rucking with cops? chucking portaloos about? throwing furniture and pigs heads? beating each other up? having a go at innocent members of the public of different colours? dishing out threats before and after marches? known peados?


----------



## krink (Oct 4, 2013)

a strange sensation in your pants dynamo?


----------



## andrewc (Oct 4, 2013)

Looks like there might have been some trouble at News from Nowhere, Bold St, Liverpool. 
Just walked past & the shop was dark. 2 police cars outside with blues on & police talking to some uglies on the pavement.
Fash upset at their mates being sent down last week ?


----------



## intersol32 (Oct 4, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> Absolutely, the black block/militant anti-fascists have always been extremely violent. It is also strange how they label the EDL fascist for protesting against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism.Yet at the same time have never spoken out or protested themselves against Islamic extremists and Islamic terrorists. On the contrary ever since 9/11 these people have acted as apologists for extremist Islam. I have come across a book which exposes the lefts' alliance with radical Islam: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Unholy-Alliance-Radical-Islam-American/dp/0895260263



Boring.

Definitely not as good as 'Bravo Two Zero' (which incidentally gets better with every read).


----------



## intersol32 (Oct 4, 2013)

andrewc said:


> Looks like there might have been some trouble at News from Nowhere, Bold St, Liverpool.
> Just walked past & the shop was dark. 2 police cars outside with blues on & police talking to some uglies on the pavement.
> Fash upset at their mates being sent down last week ?



Probably went in there shouting and trying to take a piss in the corner like they did last time.

I predict they got lifted at the scene after talking about it on Facebook as "Operation Werewolf" or something crap like that.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 4, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/04/edl-leader-stalks-tweets-wrong-person?CMP=twt_gu

Tommy is famous, etc


----------



## Corax (Oct 4, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> It's all halal cream teas round here.


Careful now, Pickman's model will ask for evidence.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 5, 2013)

J Ed said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/04/edl-leader-stalks-tweets-wrong-person jesus



more hilariously inept adventures from the used car salesman/spiv 'sir' tommy robinson.


----------



## albionism (Oct 5, 2013)

krink said:


> so, who did dynamo used to be?


Derf!


----------



## albionism (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> By the way concerning the mass arrest of anti-fascist/black block at the September London anti-EDL demo, given that some of those arrested were found to be carrying weapons and given that in previous incidents such people have caused extreme violence you can hardly blame the police from acting to prevent serious disorder and violence against EDL demonstrators.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Dynamo (Oct 5, 2013)

ddraig said:


> got any videos with loads of antis rucking with cops? chucking portaloos about? throwing furniture and pigs heads? beating each other up? having a go at innocent members of the public of different colours? dishing out threats before and after marches? known peados?


See this then of the black block from 2011 who were the same people who tried to attack the EDL demonstration!  By the way I notice how you people never slag off militant muslims. Here is video footage of militant muslims and leftists rioting in Kensington a couple of years ago:  The aim of these violent protesters was to storm the Israeli embassy and violently attack those embassy staff inside.


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 5, 2013)

And your point is? That we should support the EDL? Fuck off cock womble.


----------



## Dynamo (Oct 5, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> And your point is? That we should support the EDL? Fuck off cock womble.


My point is that you should stop trying to violently attack EDL demonstrations and instead turn your attention to Islamic extremists! First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim! They have got many none white members and have always stated right from the start that their organisation and events are open to people of all races and backgrounds. People like you claim that militant Islam is not a threat, well if that is true how come that there have been so many Islamic terrorist attacks around the world including in Britain? And how come there are so many militant muslims right here in Britain who openly preach violence and hatred? It seems that people like you are barking up the wrong tree! The real danger comes from Islamic militants, not from those who are brave enough to protest against them.


----------



## shifting gears (Oct 5, 2013)

Fuck off you fascist apologist


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> My point is that you should stop trying to violently attack EDL demonstrations and instead turn your attention to Islamic extremists! First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim! They have got many none white members and have always stated right from the start that their organisation and events are open to people of all races and backgrounds. People like you claim that militant Islam is not a threat, well if that is true how come that there have been so many Islamic terrorist attacks around the world including in Britain? And how come there are so many militant muslims right here in Britain who openly preach violence and hatred? It seems that people like you are barking up the wrong tree! The real danger comes from Islamic militants, not from those who are brave enough to protest against them.



how many Islamic extremists have you caught since you joined the EDL?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> My point is that you should stop trying to violently attack EDL demonstrations and instead turn your attention to Islamic extremists! First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim! They have got many none white members and have always stated right from the start that their organisation and events are open to people of all races and backgrounds. People like you claim that militant Islam is not a threat, well if that is true how come that there have been so many Islamic terrorist attacks around the world including in Britain? And how come there are so many militant muslims right here in Britain who openly preach violence and hatred? It seems that people like you are barking up the wrong tree! The real danger comes from Islamic militants, not from those who are brave enough to protest against them.


Alright charlie/oswald?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 5, 2013)

_First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim!_

Wrong

_They have got many none white members_

No they don't

_People like you claim that militant Islam is not a threat_

No "we" don't.


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> My point is that you should stop trying to violently attack EDL demonstrations and instead turn your attention to Islamic extremists! First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim! They have got many none white members and have always stated right from the start that their organisation and events are open to people of all races and backgrounds. People like you claim that militant Islam is not a threat, well if that is true how come that there have been so many Islamic terrorist attacks around the world including in Britain? And how come there are so many militant muslims right here in Britain who openly preach violence and hatred? It seems that people like you are barking up the wrong tree! The real danger comes from Islamic militants, not from those who are brave enough to protest against them.


People like me? You know fuck all about me, spunk trumpet. The EDL are racist, fascist thugs and left unopposed have shown themselves to be more than happy to assault leftists, ethnic minorities and any one else their bigoted shit head idiology points them toward. I have in the past been attacked by racist thugs and i am more than happy to kick their arseholes in... if i'm ever attacked by a loony religious type they will be getting it too... now fuck off you racist shit bag


----------



## Corax (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> My point is that you should stop trying to violently attack EDL demonstrations and instead turn your attention to Islamic extremists! First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim! They have got many none white members and have always stated right from the start that their organisation and events are open to people of all races and backgrounds. People like you claim that militant Islam is not a threat, well if that is true how come that there have been so many Islamic terrorist attacks around the world including in Britain? And how come there are so many militant muslims right here in Britain who openly preach violence and hatred? It seems that people like you are barking up the wrong tree! The real danger comes from Islamic militants, not from those who are brave enough to protest against them.


Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!!!! 

Not racist?  Brilliant.  They're not nazi salutes, we were just waving!!!

And no one on this thread thinks that extremist islam isn't a threat.  They've just got a sense of proportion, and also recognise the threat of others, eg far-right extremists like your friend in Loughborough.

Openly preaching violence and hatred?  Well, it's a good thing it's only some muslims that do that eh?  Good old white english patriots would never preach violence and hatred.  Mercy me, no!


----------



## albionism (Oct 5, 2013)

> See this then of the black block from 2011 who were the same people who tried to attack the EDL demonstration!


Yep, exactly the same people  You seem to think "Black Block" is a group or organisation with a membership..It ain't, it's a tactic.


----------



## Dynamo (Oct 5, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> _First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim!_
> Wrong
> _They have got many none white members_
> No they don't
> ...


Yes they do have many none white members see this:  
And no they are not racist or fascist! The EDL was set up to protest against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism! It is not and never has been a racist organisation! You morons act as apologists for Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism by coming out with out and out crap like Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism is caused by the war on terrorism and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other Islamic terrorist attacks like the attack on the American ship the USS Cole, the bombings of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania happened BEFORE the war on terrorism began!


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> Yes they do have many none white members see this:
> And no they are not racist or fascist! The EDL was set up to protest against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism! It is not and never has been a racist organisation! You morons act as apologists for Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism by coming out with out and out crap like Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism is caused by the war on terrorism and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other Islamic terrorist attacks like the attack on the American ship the USS Cole, the bombings of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania happened BEFORE the war on terrorism began!



lucky us we got the edl to save us then isn't it. twat. fuck off


----------



## chilango (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> See this then of the black block from 2011 who were the same people who tried to attack the EDL demonstration!  By the way I notice how you people never slag off militant muslims. Here is video footage of militant muslims and leftists rioting in Kensington a couple of years ago:  The aim of these violent protesters was to storm the Israeli embassy and violently attack those embassy staff inside.




Cool vids dynamo cheers.

You got that one of Tommy on his charity walk?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> Yes they do have many none white members see this:
> And no they are not racist or fascist! The EDL was set up to protest against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism! It is not and never has been a racist organisation! You morons act as apologists for Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism by coming out with out and out crap like Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism is caused by the war on terrorism and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other Islamic terrorist attacks like the attack on the American ship the USS Cole, the bombings of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania happened BEFORE the war on terrorism began!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> Yes they do have many none white members see this:
> And no they are not racist or fascist! The EDL was set up to protest against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism! It is not and never has been a racist organisation! You morons act as apologists for Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism by coming out with out and out crap like Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism is caused by the war on terrorism and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other Islamic terrorist attacks like the attack on the American ship the USS Cole, the bombings of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania happened BEFORE the war on terrorism began!




how many Islamic extremists have you caught since you joined the EDL?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2013)

I think this one needs to go on a long charity walk.


----------



## chilango (Oct 5, 2013)

albionism said:


>



 Like this one dynamo.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> My point is that you should stop trying to violently attack EDL demonstrations and instead turn your attention to Islamic extremists! First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim! They have got many none white members and have always stated right from the start that their organisation and events are open to people of all races and backgrounds. People like you claim that militant Islam is not a threat, well if that is true how come that there have been so many Islamic terrorist attacks around the world including in Britain? And how come there are so many militant muslims right here in Britain who openly preach violence and hatred? It seems that people like you are barking up the wrong tree! The real danger comes from Islamic militants, not from those who are brave enough to protest against them.



not racist!
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/Wom...tory-18232233-detail/story.html#axzz2gqhDdKLG
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/479579/20130617/tommy-robinson-fayaz-mughal-edl-racist-far.htm


> The leader of the English Defence League has admitted his movement contains racists - but insists it is no worse than the Metropolitan Police.


nice bunch to compare with!


----------



## ddraig (Oct 5, 2013)

oh why ban it?


----------



## Corax (Oct 5, 2013)

albionism said:


> Yep, exactly the same people  You seem to think "Black Block" is a group or organisation with a membership..It ain't, it's a tactic.


What?  But I spent £38 on my membership!  I've got a card and everything!


----------



## Corax (Oct 5, 2013)

ddraig said:


> oh why ban it?


He was a bit of a _rubbish_ racist tbh.  Just kept restating the same things without engaging with replies.  We need a better standard of racist really.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 5, 2013)

wanted to see its next move(s)


----------



## krink (Oct 5, 2013)

if anything, when dealing with the likes of the edl i wish the 'black bloc'  would be a bit more violent


----------



## albionism (Oct 5, 2013)

albionism said:


>


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 5, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think this one needs to go on a long charity walk.





arrest him for assault


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 5, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> arrest him for assault



Fridgemagnet is basically enforcing Sharia law on Urban75.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:
			
		

> My point is that you should stop trying to violently attack EDL demonstrations and instead turn your attention to Islamic extremists! First of the the EDL are NOT racist and fascist as you so wrongly claim! They have got many none white members and have always stated right from the start that their organisation and events are open to people of all races and backgrounds. People like you claim that militant Islam is not a threat, well if that is true how come that there have been so many Islamic terrorist attacks around the world including in Britain? And how come there are so many militant muslims right here in Britain who openly preach violence and hatred? It seems that people like you are barking up the wrong tree! The real danger comes from Islamic militants, not from those who are brave enough to protest against them.



Unfortunately the EDL also attack left wing targets hence they're given a bit more attention.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 5, 2013)

Vast amounts of butthurt cream has been delivered to Luton this afternoon

Tommy Robinson's wild goose chase ends in embarrassment
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...nson-s-wild-goose-chase-ends-in-embarrassment


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Oct 5, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> Yes they do have many none white members see this:
> And no they are not racist or fascist! The EDL was set up to protest against Islamic extremism and Islamic terrorism! It is not and never has been a racist organisation! You morons act as apologists for Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism by coming out with out and out crap like Islamic terrorism and Islamic extremism is caused by the war on terrorism and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet the 9/11 terrorist attacks and other Islamic terrorist attacks like the attack on the American ship the USS Cole, the bombings of American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania happened BEFORE the war on terrorism began!




OK, we have one....... unlike you I have more than one finger on each hand..... I'd like to keep counting....... OK 2, that nice honest Mr Singh..... still got more fingers than you...... how many more ya got?


----------



## Fingers (Oct 5, 2013)

Is that Mr Singh the violent criminal who is currently on the run from the police and has met with leadership very recently?


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 5, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/04/edl-leader-stalks-tweets-wrong-person?CMP=twt_gu
> 
> Tommy is famous, etc





Fingers said:


> Is that Mr Singh the violent criminal who is currently on the run from the police and has met with leadership very recently?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-24302563
Yup,their so-called Sikh division consisted  him and .....er no-one else


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 6, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Vast amounts of butthurt cream has been delivered to Luton this afternoon
> 
> Tommy Robinson's wild goose chase ends in embarrassment
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...nson-s-wild-goose-chase-ends-in-embarrassment





> Judges do not see people at short notice, *especially people like her.*


----------



## tony.c (Oct 6, 2013)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-24302563
> Yup,their so-called Sikh division consisted  him and .....er no-one else


He'll soon be their Sikh Prison Division when plod tracks him down, which shouldn't be too difficult if he has been meeting with Tommy.
He might not be too popular with any Asian fellow inmates who have the misfortune to share a wing with him.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 7, 2013)

SDL demo on saturday mainly consisted of EDL, NWI and NEI.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 7, 2013)

Sort of reminded me of 'heel' housemates being evicted from _Big Brother_. Well, that and the Lawrence Inquiry perp walk fiasco.


----------



## Corax (Oct 7, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


>


Well it's true tbh.

I do see your point, and share the  at what appears to be pretty blatant classist sneering.

But on a purely factual/practical level, I bet a well-heeled freemason solicitor would stand a much better chance of getting a short-notice meeting.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Oct 7, 2013)

Oi, Dynamo...... that nice Mr Singh is back behind bars..... is that the number of 'ethnics' in the EDL back to 1?


----------



## bignose1 (Oct 7, 2013)

tony.c said:


> He'll soon be their Sikh Prison Division when plod tracks him down, which shouldn't be too difficult if he has been meeting with Tommy.
> He might not be too popular with any Asian fellow inmates who have the misfortune to share a wing with him.


If he had fled to America would he be sent to Singh Singh.....


----------



## audiotech (Oct 8, 2013)

Corax said:


> I do see your point, and share the  at what appears to be pretty blatant classist sneering.



Classist? You bet, as _Searchlight_ noted two years ago 'the EDL is led on the streets by political nobodies, but is run behind the scenes by a group of former Monday Club members with city links.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

they should have told plod 'sikh, and ye shall find' surely?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 8, 2013)

WTF:

Quilliam facilitates Tommy Robinson leaving the English Defence League:

http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/p...-robinson-leaving-the-english-defence-league/


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Just give us your grass number here and then we can move onto the next stage:


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

*qu'est-ce que c'est the fuck is that? *


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 8, 2013)

There is going to be an absolute shitstorm on facebook I would think. 

If Tommy takes all the dosh and websites with him then they are pretty screwed I would think? It's not like they have new leaders waiting in the wings, is it?


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 8, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> WTF:
> 
> http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/p...-robinson-leaving-the-english-defence-league/



Just got sent an email for this. If its true then its good news as there isn't any real  leadership layer beneath them. There will be further fragmentation. Quillam take a lot harder line on  Islamic extremism than some posters on here and I suspect the two former EDLers will still be vehemently opposed to UAF/Anti fascism.

Press conference should be interesting.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There is going to be an absolute shitstorm on facebook I would think.
> 
> If Tommy takes all the dosh and websites with him then they are pretty screwed I would think? It's not like they have new leaders waiting in the wings, is it?


It's game over _for this version_ if this is true. More to come from _certain directions_ regarding this very soon i should think.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

if this is true it means he has wrung aqll the money he can out of EDL and is now going to do the 'ex-nazi' pundit for media $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

Who funds Quillam?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

where to said:


> Who funds Quillam?


Same people who might have been funding tommy r.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

my question exactly. butchers is right - there is no leadership beneath tommy and kkkev's personal fiefdom structure. he is a media whore and knows quite a few people now so 'pounditry' could be the new thing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

hey up! 
https://twitter.com/EDLTrobinson/status/387504594441760768


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 8, 2013)

Quillam website has slowed down to a trickle since I looked at it ten minutes ago...


----------



## yardbird (Oct 8, 2013)

He has quit yes. The bbc are trying to get to talk to him.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Quillam website has slowed down to a trickle since I looked at it ten minutes ago...



Yep, i can't get to the 'about' section. I expect the increase in govt money coming their way very soon as part of this will help in the future.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Can someone remind me, did the republicans give up after five whole years?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

Of interest is that two years before he was exposed, Special Branch veteran and founder of the Muslim Contact Unit (alongside fellow spy-cop Andrew James Boyling) Bob Lambert MBE penned a piece (co-authored by then-collaborator and business partner Jonathan Githens-Mazer) for the _Guardian_ critiquing Quilliam.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2009/oct/19/prevent-quilliam-foundation-extremism


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 8, 2013)

This is from the "about page"

* Who provides Quilliam’s funding?*
Quilliam is funded by both private and public funds. Our ideas, projects, and output are all made possible by the support of private individual donations, private philanthropic foundations and trust grants, as well as public sector grants. All funding is accounted for responsibly, and we are externally audited annually. Specific details of Quilliam’s finances are published in our Annual Report.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 8, 2013)

Is it wrong of me to want to make a joke about Will.I.Am?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 8, 2013)

Do my eyes deceive or is that kev over the shoulder?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

its a bid for respectability. he has wrung the EDL dry and he knows there is money in them.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

I'm sorry what? lol


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

tommy's motto has always been 'follow the money.' he is a businessman after all.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Managerial shortcuts into the ex-extremist and _we have a common anti-extremist agenda_ circuit like this aren't going to deal with the stuff that the edl manged to ride on either.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

Fancies himself as the new Jackie McDonald


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Maajid Nawaz is the lib-dem PPC for Hampstead and Kilburn btw


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

The QF are networked to fuck btw and can provide access to a lot of places and people that the edl could not.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

huffing from the huff chuffers!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...?1381223771&utm_hp_ref=twitter&comm_ref=false


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

Not convinced this is some long term work by Q paying off, but maybe them just grabbing sudden offer/ deal from SYL/TR and spinning it to their maximum benefit. 

Not that TR cares, its the old Mandela / soviet union one, "maybe we were using them"?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

where to said:


> Not convinced this is some long term work by Q paying off, but maybe them just grabbing sudden offer/ deal from SYL/TR and spinning it to their maximum benefit.
> 
> Not that TR cares, its the old Mandela / soviet union one, "maybe we were using them"?


Well, it's already got the liberal left tying itself in knots trying to show the QF is racist, islamophobic and elitist. But then again, if that is some small motivation on TR's part, to demonstrate this - it doesn't really mean anything does it?


----------



## cesare (Oct 8, 2013)

Last year Maajid Nawaz made a direct comparison between his old group Hizb ut-Tahrir and the BNP. I'm wondering whether he's following some kind of Patrick H type Third Way.


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Well, it's already got the liberal left tying itself in knots trying to show the QF is racist, islamophobic and elitist. But then again, if that is some small motivation on TR's part, to demonstrate this - it doesn't really mean anything does it?



it may do in the l/t for Q as an org. They will lose any credibility they have with the Muslims they are supposed to be winning over with this. Esp if TR still sounds like TR from today on. But again, Q top movers may be eyeing personal objectives, not org ones (TR too of course)


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

cesare said:


> Last year Maajid Nawaz made a direct comparison between his old group Hizb ut-Tahrir and the BNP. I'm wondering whether he's following some kind of Patrick H type Third Way.


For Nawaz or TR? 

edit: if the latter, then i think he's just looking for way into the mainstream, If the former, he's got his eye on parliament - he picked the wrong party though.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

12 other 'senior members' have also left. Senior members


----------



## cesare (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> For Nawaz or TR?
> 
> edit: if the latter, then i think he's just looking for way into the mainstream, If the former, he's got his eye on parliament - he picked the wrong party though.


Nawaz, although the LibDem thing was news to me.


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

cesare said:


> Last year Maajid Nawaz made a direct comparison between his old group Hizb ut-Tahrir and the BNP. I'm wondering whether he's following some kind of Patrick H type Third Way.


 
in the Lib Dems?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> 12 other 'senior members' have also left. Senior members


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> For Nawaz or TR?
> 
> edit: if the latter, then i think he's just looking for way into the mainstream, If the former, he's got his eye on parliament - he picked the wrong party though.



A bit more profile and cred from this sort of thing and he might make a decent mayoral candidate for them


----------



## cesare (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> in the Lib Dems?


Apparently he is, yes.


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

> Ah yes, the man who went to bed one day as a fascist and woke up the next day as a socialist. Or not.


 
Owen Jones comment,

its feasible, its happened before, plenty of times, though who knows.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> Owen Jones comment,
> 
> its feasible, its happened before, plenty of times, though who knows.


you what now?


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

cesare said:


> Last year Maajid Nawaz made a direct comparison between his old group Hizb ut-Tahrir and the BNP. I'm wondering whether he's following some kind of Patrick H type Third Way.



I don't see a comparison between Hizb and the BNP being all that far off the mark to be honest. Having had a few pints a couple of times with a former member of Hizb who spent some time working for QF before being laid off, I really hope that *his* views aren't representative of QF as a whole since his trajectory seemed to be to go from being a member of Hizb to a neocon desperately trying to get some work with the Henry Jackson Society.

QF have to be incredibly well networked though, this particular bloke really doesn't know a huge amount about anything at all but still manages to get an article in the Guardian fairly often.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Has he said he's a socialist then Owen?


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

btw, ITV's 'Exposure' documentary strand(which broke the Saville story) is to highlight a number of Mosques/Imman's that were prepared to 'marry' 14 year old girls, it is likely this will be Tommys next media appearance condemning the practice.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Says who? He is either in it or he ain't.


----------



## cesare (Oct 8, 2013)

J Ed said:


> I don't see a comparison between Hizb and the BNP being all that far off the mark to be honest. Having had a few pints a couple of times with a former member of Hizb who spent some time working for QF before being laid off, I really hope that *his* views aren't representative of QF as a whole since his trajectory seemed to be to go from being a member of Hizb to a neocon desperately trying to get some work with the Henry Jackson Society.


I thought his comparison was quite a good one. The Staggers series of letters between him and Hasan certainly made his position reasonably clear and I can also see from that where this business of laundering Robinson et al comes from. The incongruity is the LibDem aspect, although nothing much surprises me about those cunts.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

tommy made a lot of money out of the EDL and it is over now. he is looking for a way to achieve 'political respectability', to continue to get his media fix and make some cash from the MSM. he is a vain, spivvy opportunist. little more.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

> Tommy Robinson will definitely form a new political group after stepping down as leader of the English Defence League, his personal assistant has told IBTimes UK.
> 
> Helen Gower also told our reporter that, although Robinson informed his support staff of his decision to step down a week ago, the rest of the EDL had no idea that he and deputy Kevin Carroll would be resigning.
> 
> ...



http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/5...h-defence-league-tommy-robinson-edl-quits.htm


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Says who? He is either in it or he ain't.


 
I meant with QF's help he will be all over the airwaves after the programme


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/5...h-defence-league-tommy-robinson-edl-quits.htm


Stupid tactical move. He simply has too much baggage to enter the mainstream - as did Griffin, but Griffin had 3 decades of political organisation and experience behind him that enabled him to build a niche in the right conditions - TR doesn't. TR has enough intellectual nous to know he needs to go mainstream but not enough political nous to know that he can't.


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> tommy made a lot of money out of the EDL and it is over now. he is looking for a way to achieve 'political respectability', to continue to get his media fix and make some cash from the MSM. he is a vain, spivvy opportunist. little more.


 

his threads have certainly improved, nice tweed jacket in the QF photo


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

Am I being naive to think that while this might not be great for Tommy, it might possibly be good for society as a whole? Surely almost every EDL member is going to be curious enough to at least look at what Quilliam has to say, and might realise that there are a lot of Muslims who are not extremists.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

this should be a cheque with a sign pointing to 'Bank' behind him!


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

It's all too much for my frazzled brain to understand today.... will read more about it tonight/tomorrow.

however, he's clearly stated before that young lads will be blowing them self up for his cuase. He did that on newsnight at the end of the interview, so it's hardly news to him that they have been a bit extreme of late.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> btw, ITV's 'Exposure' documentary strand(which broke the Saville story) is to highlight a number of Mosques/Imman's that were prepared to 'marry' 14 year old girls, it is likely this will be Tommys next media appearance condemning the practice.


can you PLEASE provide links for your stuff, otherwise it just looks like confused guff from you


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

antifascists have accrued tons of evidence of his generalisations, sweeping statments and outright racist comments. he will have to back pedal drastically and basically admit he was wrong. the Quillys will no doubt have been grooming him over the last week before breaking the story.


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

@drdraig


http://www.itv.com/news/2013-10-06/uk-imams-agree-to-perform-underage-marriages/

This is the programme, its already been on ITV News/Look North, etc, its on Wednesday night ITV


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

DDRaig: http://twitpic.com/photos/EDLNewsXtra
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-...evin-caroll-leave-edl-english-defence-league/
etc
quilliam page down.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> can you PLEASE provide links for your stuff, otherwise it just looks like confused guff from you


i've seen it when he has done and it still looks like confused guff


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> @drdraig
> 
> 
> http://www.itv.com/news/2013-10-06/uk-imams-agree-to-perform-underage-marriages/
> ...


without any word from der fuhrer yaxley-lennon?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

he was on 5live apparently.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 8, 2013)

cesare said:


> Last year Maajid Nawaz made a direct comparison between his old group Hizb ut-Tahrir and the BNP. I'm wondering whether he's following some kind of Patrick H type Third Way.



The Quillam agenda is  that the far right and islamic extremists are are mirror image who feed off each other. They have a 'British' agenda and did some good work regarding mosques opening their doors and having payers in English. I did some work with them ( through work ) about four years ago.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

On the QF funding question that was asked earlier. (pdf). This would only be one part of their income of course.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> antifascists have accrued tons of evidence of his generalisations, sweeping statments and outright racist comments. he will have to back pedal drastically and basically admit he was wrong. the Quillys will no doubt have been grooming him over the last week before breaking the story.



essentially he is for all media intents and purposes by renouncing the far right an anti fascist now. I am interested how Mathew Collins and Searchlight take this news


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> On the QF funding question that was asked earlier. (pdf). This would only be one part of their income of course.



I get the impression that they laid off quite a few people from 2011 onwards, which makes me think that that may well be the bulk of their funding.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 8, 2013)

> *Anjem Choudary* ‏@*anjemchoudary*  4m
> If it's true that *Tommy Robinson*'s left EDL to join Quilliam Foundation I wouldn't be surprised as they are an even greater enemy of Muslims


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 8, 2013)

J Ed said:


> I get the impression that they laid off quite a few people from 2011 onwards, which makes me think that that may well be the bulk of their funding.




They did when they lost Prevent funding


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 8, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01jd6s3


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/3111/reaction-to-edl-leaders-defecting


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

I think they need to re-read that:



> “Merely setting up a new party or anti-Muslim organisation will not be enough to convince anti-hate campaigners, and those interested in democratic government, that Lennon and Carroll have truly renounced their ways.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Tell you what, those islamists really hate the QF don't they? The bob-pitt wing of the left seem rather rabid over them too.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

lol


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Tell you what, those islamists really hate the QF don't they? The bob-pitt wing of the left seem rather rabid over them too.



Yep, but why wouldn't they be? The Bob Pitts of this world are happy enough to defer to the far-right Islamist worldview on most things.


----------



## elbows (Oct 8, 2013)

> He explained his motives for leaving, telling BBC Radio 5 live's Nicky Campbell: "When some moron lifts up his top and he's got the picture of a mosque saying 'boom' and it's all over the national newspapers, it's me, it's when I pick up my kids from school the parents are looking at me, judging me on that.
> 
> "And that's not what I've stood for and my decision to do this is to be true to what I stand for. And whilst I want to lead the revolution against Islamist ideology, I don't want to lead the revolution against Muslims.
> 
> "I believe that the revolution needs to come from within the Islamic community and they need to stand up. And I believe this is a step forward not a step back."



From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24442953


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Yep, but why wouldn't they be? The Bob Pitts of this world are happy enough to defer to the far-right Islamist worldview on most things.


Absolutely they are. Which tends to colour how large parts of the the left relate to muslims - and  leaves secular muslims or left-wing muslims out in the cold, or worse, as enemies.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2013)

elbows said:


> From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24442953


http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/e...oll-quit-over-farright-extremism-8866277.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

what the fuck is he on about? revolution? 'And whilst I want to lead the revolution against Islamist ideology, I don't want to lead the revolution against Muslims.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24442953


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

and yet again denying any responsibility for his followers action.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> what the fuck is he on about? revolution? 'And whilst I want to lead the revolution against Islamist ideology, I don't want to lead the revolution against Muslims.'
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24442953


this one's got legs


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Tell you what, those islamists really hate the QF don't they? The bob-pitt wing of the left seem rather rabid over them too.


 

Pitt is a mouth foamer and an embarrassment


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

which pitt? paul or bob?


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

Re: all the links, they are all the same, it looks like a PA article.

mal 
Bob


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

yeah. it will have been prepared over the last week or at least since TR's stalking embarassment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah. it will have been prepared over the last week or at least since TR's stalking embarassment.


the stalking embarrassment to differentiate it from the 1001 other tr embarrassments?


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah. it will have been prepared over the last week or at least since TR's stalking embarassment.



He's gonna help Quilliam root out extremism by taking pictures of Islamists' post.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 8, 2013)

That's interesting. 

Supposed to be an EDL demo of some kind in Bradford this weekend, wonder if that's still on?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 8, 2013)

expect a flood of these on Ebay very soon:


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

I was looking forward to them _taking stokes croft_ in december as well.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> I was looking forward to them _taking stokes croft_ in december as well.



whats for taking in Stokes Croft these days? a nice latte?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Piece of crappy artwork for a few grand. They need the wetherspoons back to bring the the tone back up.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 8, 2013)

Is there any doubt now that Tommy Robinson is basically just a snitch?

Quilliam's pretty much part of the establishment, isn't it? Like Chatham House is?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Piece of crappy artwork for a few grand. They need the wetherspoons back to bring the the tone back up.


'Craft ale' wankpit The Crofter's Rights (  ) recently lost its booze licence for nearly two weeks under obscure anti-hipster bye-laws (or possibly through the actions of The Ghost of The Brewhouse) (or more likely the inability to properly organise a piss-up in a pub).


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'Craft ale' wankpit The Crofter's Rights (  ) recently lost its booze licence for nearly two weeks under obscure anti-hipster bye-laws (or possibly through the actions of The Ghost of The Brewhouse).


However, they are now allowing you to BYO.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> However, they are now allowing you to BYO.


Lucky us!

ETA:

If I'd wanted to wait ages to not get served a beer in an overpriced, irritatingly decorated, poorly-run Stokes Croft bar I'd probably stick to The Bank of SC. More fun banging into tables with a pram there.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

_Come sit in our pub and drink your own beer. _Tbf they do say they have some free drink during this difficult period.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> _Come sit in our pub and drink your own beer. _Tbf they do say they have some free drink during this difficult period.


_Strictly limited_ quantities of free beer - even their booze comes with a guestlist.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Lucky us!
> 
> ETA:
> 
> If I'd wanted to wait ages to not get served a beer in an overpriced, irritatingly decorated, poorly-run Stokes Croft bar I'd probably stick to The Bank of SC. More fun banging into tables with a pram there.


(Getting pretty OT here, but i remember back when pubs were pubs and people could afford to go out that operated as a) Bell over-spill and b) 6 quick pints before the tropic. Was very brassily done out at that time, no idea what it's like now)


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 8, 2013)

What incarnation is the Tropic Club on now?  I bet it still smells the same, minus the tobacco and smoke machine odours.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 8, 2013)

TR will probably get a few quid for his inevitable Question Time appearance, won't he?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> What incarnation is the Tropic Club on now?  I bet it still smells the same, minus the tobacco and smoke machine odours.



It went Tropic > Club Loco > Maze > shut.

I favoured the CL years - a delightful techno deathtrap building with a tea-and-toastie room


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> (Getting pretty OT here, but i remember back when pubs were pubs and people could afford to go out that operated as a) Bell over-spill and b) 6 quick pints before the tropic. Was very brassily done out at that time, no idea what it's like now)


'Bristol treasure' Big Jeff on Stokes Croft (not a fan of the pre-Croft days):



> ...But, go back about a decade or so, and the area was very much a different place. It wasn’t so much colorful as it was dark and grimy – the kind of place where you wouldn’t want to be after dark.
> 
> It is amazing to see how much the area has changed and largely because somewhere like The Croft has offered up a sense of hope. I remember going there for the very first time back in 2002, before it was established as a proper music venue. It used to be called The Comedy Pub...



http://www.bristol247.com/2013/06/03/big-jeff-the-closure-of-the-croft-bristol-95990/

Actually, Jeff, it _was_ a place many people wanted to be after dark!

(Back-on-topic points aplenty, thanks to Big Jeff's housemate being an EDL donor.)


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Cool, meant the bank though!


----------



## RaverDrew (Oct 8, 2013)




----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 8, 2013)

Kronstadt Klub was my era at the Tropic, plus an assortment of gigs (Nik Turner's Fantastic All Stars being a particularly memorable one).  All that other shit happened after I upped sticks for the north.  I'm just (only just) about old enough to remember the Western Star Domino Club which was nearby too, flattened for a road project in the late 80s.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> Kronstadt Klub was my era at the Tropic, plus an assortment of gigs (Nik Turner's Fantastic All Stars being a particularly memorable one).  All that other shit happened after I upped sticks for the north.  I'm just (only just) about old enough to remember the Western Star Domino Club which was nearby too, flattened for a road project in the late 80s.


Kclub was fantastic - where have all the crusties gone though? Always remember mark stewart just there at everything, lurking and being really tall.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

Dogsauce said:


> I'm just (only just) about old enough to remember the Western Star Domino Club which was nearby too, flattened for a road project in the late 80s.



http://www.bristolarchiverecords.com/people/video_bamboo_club.html


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 8, 2013)

Is this Tommy Robinson retiring decison going to mean the end of this thread?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Is this Tommy Robinson retiring decison going to mean the end of this thread?


this is the edl watch thread, not the tommy robinson / stephen yaxley-lennnon memorial thread.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 8, 2013)

where to said:


> Who funds Quillam?



They were receiving state cash as part of new Labour's drive to encourage "dialogue" (i.e. anti-Islamism) in Muslim communities.  They may still be doing so under the coalition, although a lot of that got deep-sixed by "austerity" cuts.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> Owen Jones comment,
> 
> its feasible, its happened before, plenty of times, though who knows.



The few genuine transitions from the hard right to the left that I've seen, have generally been a bit more involved than what Robinson appears to have undergone, so while it's "feasible", I strongly doubt that in Yaks-meat Lemon's case it is genuine.


----------



## gosub (Oct 8, 2013)

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...ist-puppet-neocon-fraud-and-wahhabist-stooge/

includes c&p of BNP press release  so they don't think they have traffic


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 8, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Has he said he's a socialist then Owen?



Perhaps Owen lives in one of those simplistic worlds of binary oppositions, in which case Robinson would have to be either a fascist or a socialist.
It's not like young Jones hasn't displayed a certain degree of simplicity in his political thinking previously, is it?


----------



## Corax (Oct 8, 2013)

J Ed said:


> He's gonna help Quilliam root out extremism by taking pictures of *Islamists' people who have a similar name to an Islamist but spell it differently and live in a different city's* post.


FIFY


----------



## Sprocket. (Oct 8, 2013)

I am glad he is distancing himself from those racist types that for some baffling reason he seems to attract!


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

Sky news just said some 20s male has been announced as new Edl leader. Its on a website apparently


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

Alex Woods







He runs the Daily Bale which is a FB page that he uses to make up fictional stories about Muslims and leftists to rile people up.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Daily_Bale


----------



## emanymton (Oct 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> what the fuck is he on about? revolution? 'And whilst I want to lead the revolution against Islamist ideology, I don't want to lead the revolution against Muslims.'
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24442953


he also says something about the revoluction having to come frim within islam. so is he planning to convert then?


----------



## emanymton (Oct 8, 2013)

where to said:


> Sky news just said some 20s male has been announced as new Edl leader. Its on a website apparently


Did these lovers of democracy elect him?


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

Seems to have been bollocks from sky.

Meanwhile TR is getting some astonishing puff pieces from BBC etc


----------



## Sprocket. (Oct 8, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Alex Woods
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Not much family resemblance to uncle Julius though.


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

Emily maitlis now talking about Kevin Carroll on BBC news as if he is a household name. Bizarre.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

where to said:


> Seems to have been bollocks from sky.
> 
> Meanwhile TR is getting some astonishing puff pieces from BBC etc


Two day fancy.


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

His mini interview on BBC radio was incredibly polished...


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

> Tommy Robinson may have quit the EDL – but he's no Gandhi
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/08/tommy-robinson-quit-edl-extreme


 

Bizarre CIF piece by Sunny Hundal


----------



## juice_terry (Oct 8, 2013)

MI5 must have clipped his wings


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:
			
		

> His mini interview on BBC radio was incredibly polished...



Certainly was.

This professor griffin guy on the other hand hasn't got a clue. Seems to be getting wheeled out for comment all over the place today. a proper mug, as TR might say.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

Sky news now in 3 mins


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 8, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> They were receiving state cash as part of new Labour's drive to encourage "dialogue" (i.e. anti-Islamism) in Muslim communities.  They may still be doing so under the coalition, although a lot of that got deep-sixed by "austerity" cuts.



They were funded under the Prevent section of counter terrorism , councils also got funding. Quillam  , in their fairly unique role as being ex Islamists, were quite an invaluable source  challenging  extremist ideology.Very useful as well to non Muslim audiences in setting out what actually in  main stream muslim thinking and what wasn't.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

sky news just talking over him now... lol


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

and now they switched him off.......


----------



## tony.c (Oct 8, 2013)

So it's all down to this bloke then? Can someone buy him a pint.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Quillam  , in their fairly unique role as being ex Islamists...



News to STREET etc - poor old Dr Bob backed the wrong horse!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 8, 2013)

tony.c said:


> View attachment 41661 So it's all down to this bloke then? Can someone buy him a pint.



why has he got a tattoo of Brighton Pavilion being blown up?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

It's an advert for the curry house over the road.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2013)

Who facilitated Medhi hasan's exist from islamism btw? How did it happen?


----------



## Corax (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> Bizarre CIF piece by Sunny Hundal


_"Tommy Robinson may have quit the EDL – but he's no Gandhi"_

Oh, right... okay then.  Thanks for clearing that up Sunny.

 

(Tbf, it was probably a sub that wrote the headline.  But still...)


----------



## Serotonin (Oct 8, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Alex Woods
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Also mates with Joshua Bonehill the guy who also runs the Bale and ripped off all the donors to the Woolwich Strong movement, which everyone was warning was going to happen, but were then accused of being squaddy hating commies for saying it.


----------



## Corax (Oct 8, 2013)

He's going to fuck off to the US with Kev and cash in by doing paid speeches at fruitloop conventions isn't he.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

He will never get back in to the USA


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 8, 2013)

BBC have always been soft on Lennon, a man who for 4 years led a movement stuffed with neo nazis, criminals and thugs without apparently realising it.

Part of me wonders if he's just pressed the big red button because he's a drama junkie.


----------



## ayatollah (Oct 8, 2013)

The BBC's extraordinary wall to wall coverage today of the career move of this obviously globally and epochally  important senior  statesman (err, yep  that's conman yobbo Tommy by the way) announcing on all media outlets that he's tearfully leaving the cosmically HUGE  membership ( that's 35,000 "supporters" , oh yeeees it is - calculated  for the BBC by some media analysts - by squaring the hypotenuse by the triangular momentum of the volume of social media input by rightwing nutters over a week in August - give or take a mean deviation of x- 155% ---- --- ALL clear ?)  of the EDL  for the best of all , caring, principled, humanitarian,  motives  - obviously another giant step forward etc, etc, for ....errr - for Tommy's desire for media coverage of course ;  has certainly been a gobsmacker ! 

A charitable explanation for the BBC's idiocy is that Quillam, for self promotional purposes,  assured them this was a story of "national importance", and the nepotistic inbreds who compose the BBC News staff are so out of touch with the real world that they just bought the whole pile of hogwash as gospel truth , coming from the SIS's   tame anti Islamic Extremism "thinktank" creature.

I assume that when Prof Callinicos finally decides to retire to his ancestral country estate away from the "extremist" limelight , he too will be given this political superstar treatment by the BEEB ?  At least the 7pm  Channel 4 piece on Tommy was a lot more cynical and analytical.


----------



## Corax (Oct 8, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> He will never get back in to the USA


Oh really - is he on the ban list then?  Was that for anything he did over there, or just his domestic rap sheet?


----------



## ddraig (Oct 8, 2013)

he went there on a false passport iirc


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

He is everywhere, all broadcast media, print media, I wonder if he will make the U.S networks


----------



## Corax (Oct 8, 2013)

ddraig said:


> he went there on a false passport iirc


That rings a bell now you say it...

Aw.  Shame for him.  I'm sure with a good PR company the US could be a right cash cow for him.  

Mind you, if he has backers in positions of influence, maybe it's not off the cards - particularly if he's now marketing himself as generically anti-extremism, and distancing himself from the far-right.

In fact, *just* a fleeting thought but could that even be a _motivation_ for his recent move...?


----------



## laptop (Oct 8, 2013)

Corax said:


> Mind you, if he has backers in positions of influence, maybe it's not off the cards - particularly if he's now marketing himself as generically anti-extremism, and distancing himself from the far-right.



UKIP 3:1 against.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 8, 2013)

laptop said:


> UKIP 3:1 against.



I would be amazed but then I am about the Quilliam involvement so who knows? We're through the looking glass here people.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

Corax said:


> Oh really - is he on the ban list then?  Was that for anything he did over there, or just his domestic rap sheet?



yeah false passport etc


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah false passport etc


not far from false passport to false flag


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Oct 8, 2013)

Not kept up with all the pages but, it seems difficult to pin down a 'financial report' for this lot:
http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Quilliam_Foundation
http://www.scribd.com/doc/57458694/Preventing-Terrorism-Where-Next-for-Britain-Quilliam-Foundation
(this has the company number, if anyone can access companies house?)

and then the Times bit! Pay per view


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

he's on like News night or something


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2013)

I've got a mate who's convinced he's MI5 and was part of a operation to draw the far right apart into meaningless protests rather than fighting elections like the BNP...


----------



## audiotech (Oct 8, 2013)

Supporters tweet in response.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...nson-_n_4062124.html?1381225921&utm_hp_ref=uk


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 8, 2013)

When's the next I'm A Celebrity.......?


----------



## audiotech (Oct 8, 2013)

An old article in _The Guardian_, by Seumas Milne back in 2008, but still relevant:


> Interestingly, Husain and the Quilliam Foundation hail another Egyptian cleric, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, as a "scholastic giant" making a brave stand against extremism. Last year, David Cameron also went out of his way to praise Gomaa and the Times called him "the wise mufti".


Who is also on record....


> .....as defending Palestinian suicide bombings, including against Israeli civilians (as well as endorsing wife-beating in some cultures). The crucial difference between Gomaa and Qaradawi is not their religious rulings on Palestine or other social questions - or their shared hostility to terror attacks in the west - but that Qaradawi is linked to the Muslim Brotherhood, the most popular opposition movement in the Arab world, while Gomaa is appointed by the pro-western Mubarak dictatorship.


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 8, 2013)

Interesting lead non article on the bbc website tonight.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24454596


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

audiotech said:


> An old article in _The Guardian_, by Seumas Milne back in 2008, but still relevant.
> 
> Who is also on record....



Interestingly I think Ken Livingstone defended his closeness to Qaradawi on the basis that his support for suicide bombings in the Palestinian liberation struggle but opposition to Al-Qaeda gave him a legitimacy that was helpful in discouraging the radicalisation of Muslims in the UK. I'm pretty sure that he said that Mi5 encouraged him to continue to be close to Qaradawi on that basis.


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

Mo Ansar now trying to get the credit for this, says he's been working with SYL for 18 months "on a project"


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

where to said:


> Mo Ansar now trying to get the credit for this, says he's been working with SYL for 18 months "on a project"



had fair few rows with him on twitter.... un followed him ages ago.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 8, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've got a mate who's convinced he's MI5 and was part of a operation to draw the far right apart into meaningless protests rather than fighting elections like the BNP...




I never bought that theory, they were just too shit and ineffective at doing just that. I suspect state intel would have done some kind of better job.


----------



## where to (Oct 8, 2013)

where to said:
			
		

> Mo Ansar now trying to get the credit for this, says he's been working with SYL for 18 months "on a project"



And seemed to be saying he was pissed off at SYL and QF for what they did today, without elaborating.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)




----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

Apparently Tommy has been making a documentary with the BBC about his views, life, etc for over 9 months and meeting people like Salma Yaqoob, the journey has 'changed him'


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


>


 

Eh, members of Quillam are still muslims, aren't they?


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> Eh, members of Quillam are still muslims, aren't they?



yeah,


----------



## laptop (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> Eh, members of Quillam are still muslims, aren't they?



But probably _takfir_.

In the eyes of some authorities.


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> he's on like News night or something


 

Weird how Paxo let him go on and on, I think he is genuinely fascinated/intrigued by him.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 8, 2013)

<deleted>


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2013)

where to said:


> And seemed to be saying he was pissed off at SYL and QF for what they did today, without elaborating.



Where has this guy come from? He seems to have come out of nowhere and is on TV a great deal recently...


----------



## laptop (Oct 8, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> <giggle>
> 
> 
> http://britishemergencydefence DOT co DOT uk/forumedl/viewforum.php?f=2



You'll be wanting to break that link.

And remove the bit at the end that tells them it was you that sent us there.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 8, 2013)

laptop said:


> But probably _takfir_.
> 
> In the eyes of some authorities.



Like Bob Pitt


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 8, 2013)

treelover said:


> Weird how Paxo let him go on and on, I think he is genuinely fascinated/intrigued by him.



It's not that weird. The press have always had a fetish for him.


----------



## treelover (Oct 8, 2013)

Tommy is one of 'top stories' on Sky News!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 8, 2013)

laptop said:


> You'll be wanting to break that link.
> 
> And remove the bit at the end that tells them it was you that sent us there.



you know what. It's shite really so I'll delete altogether because I don't get what you mean in the 2nd sentence.

Note : It was a link to a spanking new forum called British Emergency Defence or some bollocks, with a max of 2 posts per thread.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2013)

So, any bets on which political party he stands for in the next election?


----------



## laptop (Oct 8, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So, any bets on which political party he stands for in the next election?



Well, I've already given a 3:1 against.

The criminal record being the main obstacle - even for UKIP? 

Failed attempt to form a new party: evens?


----------



## keybored (Oct 8, 2013)

laptop said:


> You'll be wanting to break that link.



Pretty sure he broke it tbf.


----------



## laptop (Oct 8, 2013)

keybored said:


> Pretty sure he broke it tbf.



As posted? No.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2013)

laptop said:


> Well, I've already given a 3:1 against.
> 
> The criminal record being the main obstacle - even for UKIP?
> 
> Failed attempt to form a new party: evens?



There's no politician's with a criminal record? I'll bet on UKIP.


----------



## laptop (Oct 9, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> There's no politician's with a criminal record?



Yes, but his are _oik_ crimes.


----------



## keybored (Oct 9, 2013)

laptop said:


> As posted? No.


Apologies, I assumed your quote was verbatim


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 9, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I would be amazed but then I am about the Quilliam involvement so who knows? We're through the looking glass here people.


It would be a massively stupid move by UKIP to accept him.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> There's no politician's with a criminal record? I'll bet on UKIP.





redsquirrel said:


> It would be a massively stupid move by UKIP to accept him.


Only a massive idiot would suggest such a thing. Give me your money kid, let's save time.


----------



## Tankus (Oct 9, 2013)

why a party ? , how about an independent in... say ....Dagenham ?


----------



## fishfinger (Oct 9, 2013)

Tankus said:


> why a party ? , how about an independent in... say ....Dagenham ?



Fuck off  We've got enough shit here already, thank-you-very-much.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> It would be a massively stupid move by UKIP to accept him.



It would be but who else would have him?


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 9, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It would be but who else would have him?



The entire British news media?


----------



## sunny jim (Oct 9, 2013)

Funny isnt it, they cant seem to get their heads around the concept of no leaders. If a prominent person in the anarcho/leftist movement left it would be a non event, a whatever moment or more likely '''so long and thanks for everything" with the EDL its


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 9, 2013)

treelover said:


> Weird how Paxo let him go on and on, I think he is genuinely fascinated/intrigued by him.



He did that last time. He probably has personal rules about getting into discussion with idiots/coke heads/people he views as beneath him.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 9, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> It would be a massively stupid move by UKIP to accept him.



ukip has a policy that bans former BNP members. robinson was snapped at a BNP meeting with richard edmonds. robinson has realised he only has a few hundred behind him, has drained it dry and is moving into the media cos there is a lot of money there. it has always been about his massive ego and profiteering for him. he is a fucking tory at heart.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 9, 2013)

Rump EDL in over-reaching shock: 
NEW POLICY: EDL WORKERS' UNIONS. We will now be creating a series of EDL Workers' unions that will be directly opposing the left-wing unions in our places of work. The EDL Unions will be proudly right-wing and anti-communist...The EDL Will always defend and stick up for it's workers.'

After all, the BNP's made-up union has done well. bugles.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> ukip has a policy that bans former BNP members. robinson was snapped at a BNP meeting with richard edmonds. robinson has realised he only has a few hundred behind him, has drained it dry and is moving into the media cos there is a lot of money there. it has always been about his massive ego and profiteering for him. he is a fucking tory at heart.


It bans current BNP members not former members.

Ayone who think UKIP would touch him with a shitty bargepole is demonstrating that they understand neither UKIP nor the edl/TR and instead just thinks all right groups are the same in motivation and perspective.


----------



## chilango (Oct 9, 2013)

Another thing people seem to be forgetting is that the EDL (like similar groups before and after) emerge from feelings of disenfranchisement and articulate (however poorly) views/fears/ideas that the political parties can't/won't/don't.

TR might well be "selling out" but there isn't a viable political party for him to move to. Not now, not yet anyway.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 9, 2013)

Radio 4 coverage was a bit cringy this morning


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> Rump EDL in over-reaching shock:
> NEW POLICY: EDL WORKERS' UNIONS. We will now be creating a series of EDL Workers' unions that will be directly opposing the left-wing unions in our places of work. The EDL Unions will be proudly right-wing and anti-communist...The EDL Will always defend and stick up for it's workers.'
> 
> After all, the BNP's made-up union has done well. bugles.


Why don't they just join Harrington's Solidarity or that other fash union that's sprung up?


----------



## cesare (Oct 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> Rump EDL in over-reaching shock:
> NEW POLICY: EDL WORKERS' UNIONS. We will now be creating a series of EDL Workers' unions that will be directly opposing the left-wing unions in our places of work. The EDL Unions will be proudly right-wing and anti-communist...The EDL Will always defend and stick up for it's workers.'
> 
> After all, the BNP's made-up union has done well. bugles.


Another tick in the "emulate Patrick H" box.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2013)

cesare said:


> Another tick in the "emulate Patrick H" box.


This is the people left in the edl though.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 9, 2013)

i'd love to see their branch meeting and mins if it ever happened!


----------



## cesare (Oct 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> This is the people left in the edl though.


Aye. But I see it as laundering and separating the leaders, then doing the same for what's left.


----------



## andysays (Oct 9, 2013)

where to said:


> Emily maitlis now talking about Kevin Carroll on BBC news as if he is a household name. Bizarre.



Reminds me of something a mate of mine came out with many years ago

He's not even a household name in his own house...​
Can't remember who it was originally applied to, but seems appropriate here


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 9, 2013)

Tankus said:


> why a party ? , how about an independent in... say ....Dagenham ?



You're Barking!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 9, 2013)

cesare said:


> Another tick in the "emulate Patrick H" box.



What next, "Tommy Goes To Uni"?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 9, 2013)

could it be the simplest thing of he's sick to the back teeth of being nicked all the time?


----------



## andysays (Oct 9, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Where has this guy come from? He seems to have come out of nowhere and is on TV a great deal recently...



I've taken this extravagant journey
So it seems to me
I just came from nowhere
And I'm going straight back there


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 9, 2013)

Matthew Collins is hoping not hating on radio 2.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> The entire British news media?



Will that last or is this the beginning of seeing him on BBC QT every six weeks instead of Nigel Farage?


----------



## treelover (Oct 9, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Funny isnt it, they cant seem to get their heads around the concept of no leaders. If a prominent person in the anarcho/leftist movement left it would be a non event, a whatever moment or more likely '''so long and thanks for everything" with the EDL itsView attachment 41683


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Will that last or is this the beginning of seeing him on BBC QT every six weeks instead of Nigel Farage?


Why would he be on QT at all never mind every 6 weeks. Farage at least has a party with millions of voters, elected MEPs and councillors.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 9, 2013)

wtf is that post treelover


----------



## laptop (Oct 9, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why would he be on QT at all never mind every 6 weeks. Farage at least has a party with millions of voters, elected MEPs and councillors.



Just once, if someone else pulls out of the "curiosity" spot, then obscurity.

(Fingers crossed...)


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2013)

laptop said:


> Just once, if someone else pulls out of the "curiosity" spot, then obscurity.
> 
> (Fingers crossed...)


I think that would be the only possible way.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 9, 2013)

pretty pissed off that I won't be able to get a st george themed hoodie anymore as well


----------



## Nice one (Oct 9, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> pretty pissed off that I won't be able to get a st george themed hoodie anymore as well



there's gonna be a slew of edl autobiographies from the top boys (slough division) so you can relive the heady days of 'i was there' nostalgia porn


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 9, 2013)

£20 on Stabby Marsh having a book out by the new year.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 9, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> £20 on Stabby Marsh having a book out by the new year.



I reckon Tommy will. Some kind of 'my journey' guff serialised in The Express


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 9, 2013)

early nomination for the 2014 Nobel Peace Prize IMO


----------



## J Ed (Oct 9, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> Rump EDL in over-reaching shock:
> NEW POLICY: EDL WORKERS' UNIONS. We will now be creating a series of EDL Workers' unions that will be directly opposing the left-wing unions in our places of work. The EDL Unions will be proudly right-wing and anti-communist...The EDL Will always defend and stick up for it's workers.'
> 
> After all, the BNP's made-up union has done well. bugles.



I think that's quite interesting! Looking over discussions between EDL members while on my sockpuppet account I noticed a bit of discussion of unions and picketing etc of foreign scab labour. I'm sure it will be as successful as Solidarity though..


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 9, 2013)

ddraig said:


> wtf is that post treelover


A reference to the 447 page/ 13500 post thread concerning the travails of the swp and it's attempts to defend the rapist Delta


----------



## ddraig (Oct 9, 2013)

and posters are supposed to get that from TL posting a pic and quote???
treelover 
can you see what your post looks like to people not in the know?


----------



## framed (Oct 9, 2013)

sunny jim said:


> Funny isnt it, they cant seem to get their heads around the concept of no leaders. If a prominent person in the anarcho/leftist movement left it would be a non event, a whatever moment or more likely '''so long and thanks for everything" with the EDL itsView attachment 41683



Men known by the name of Tommy are not renowned for leaving the stage quietly...


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 9, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> You're Barking!



'That's Barking' would have worked better.


----------



## Geri (Oct 9, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'Bristol treasure' Big Jeff on Stokes Croft (not a fan of the pre-Croft days):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was The Brewhouse when it first opened, if I remember correctly. It took a lot of trade from the Old England, which has never really recovered.


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 9, 2013)

ddraig said:


> and posters are supposed to get that from TL posting a pic and quote???
> treelover
> can you see what your post looks like to people not in the know?



dry yer eyes FFS


----------



## ddraig (Oct 9, 2013)

u in the swappie clique then?


----------



## steeplejack (Oct 9, 2013)

having a self-obsessed petulant meltdown truly is the path to enlightenment.


----------



## tony.c (Oct 9, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> pretty pissed off that I won't be able to get a st george themed hoodie anymore as well


There will probably be lots of EDL hoodies on ebay soon as tommy dumps his unsold stock.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 9, 2013)

steeplejack said:


> having a self-obsessed petulant meltdown truly is the path to enlightenment.


who now?


----------



## where to (Oct 9, 2013)

Turns out Ghaffur Hussein , one of QF guys met TR for first time this week...


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 9, 2013)

ddraig said:


> and posters are supposed to get that from TL posting a pic and quote???
> treelover
> can you see what your post looks like to people not in the know?


Seemed clear enough to me, in fact I was going to comment with exactly the same point.


----------



## The Black Hand (Oct 9, 2013)

North East Anti-Fascists (NEAF) - getting organised

Over recent weeks there have been a number of discussions within the networks around North East Anti-Fascists (NEAF) over the general political situation, what is called of us and how we up our game in terms of addressing the increase of fascist and racist activity in the region.

On a day where we see the implosion of the English Defence League... (EDL), we will all be indulging in the odd bit of laughter, but lets not imagine that this means that we can suspend operations and archive our materials for the benefit of future generations. If anything, the opposite may be the case. Locally, intelligence received points to the flirtation between EDL and hard core Nazis of the Infidels and the National Front becoming a more serious engagement. The EDL may well see a decrease in numbers, however increasingly their brain dead membership seem to be looking at flexing their muscles. Ethnic and cultural minorities may well face increased random attack and critically our working class movement will be seen as a legitimate target. Against a backdrop of class war declared by the bosses, we see privatisation, cutbacks and the slashing of terms and conditions in the workplace. With this confusion, despair and deliberately created division is ever more evident. Toxic roots, from which fascism thrives and where our core principles of unity and solidarity face challenge.

Given this scenario, the need for NEAF to soberly consider its response becomes clear and its a back to basics approach of educate, agitate, organise that we think is needed. With this in mind, we will be looking to developing improved organisational NEAF structure, all the better to challenge fascism wherever it presents itself. We are looking at cementing our relationships with different working class political groups, community organisations and trade unions as well as a parallel process of forming active NEAF groups. Initially NEAF groups covering the North and South of the region are being set up, but this is just a start. Those seeking the combative and intelligent approach we think is necessary to deal with the far right are encouraged to join the anti-fascist struggle. We are pushing community and workplace organising as that well as direct confrontation as part of a strategy to achieve success. 

So its a case of making a direct appeal to the supporters of NEAF to increase their commitment to our work. We welcome financial contributions, interventions through social media but most importantly we want readers to become activists, part of the solution in a more meaningful sense. NEAF groups will organise people on demonstrations, the production of materials and the completion of essential tasks behind the scenes. Your contribution is vital and we remind our supporters that through joining with us you are decreasing the potential for fascist violence, the number of racist attacks and enabling our side, freedom to fight against a government agenda that says we should work harder for less and be grateful.

No Pasaran is the internationally recognised slogan of anti fascism - 'They shall not pass', this far and no further. Practically this means turning the tables on both the bigots and the bosses and you can help make this happen.

Join with NEAF in the fightback now!


----------



## Limerick Red (Oct 9, 2013)

http://whileromeburnsjournal.wordpress.com/


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 10, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> could it be the simplest thing of he's sick to the back teeth of being nicked all the time?



You reckon he's reached saturation point for nickings and short sentences? It's plausible, I suppose!


----------



## Red Storm (Oct 10, 2013)

*"NEW EDL LEADER ANNOUNCED: 

My Name is Alex Wood, I'm a former UKIP candidate and political battle axe with over 5 years experience campaigning on the front lines of right-wing politics. 

I have always been proud to Support the EDL and work closely with Tommy Robinson and Kevin Carroll during these recent years. 

Having been approached this morning to take up premiership of the EDL, i agreed with pleasure and now take to this duty with passion, pride and willingness. 

I will be looking for a deputy leader to work underneath my premiership and invite all those interested parties to get in touch with the EDL page. 

Together, we will make a better future for our children and their children. 

No Surrender, 

Alex Wood, 
Leader of the English Defence League."

Via EDL FB*


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 10, 2013)

lol


----------



## krink (Oct 10, 2013)

Statement from Regional Organisers

A meeting was held last night with all Regional Organisers, unfortunately Tommy and Kevin failed to attend this skype conference call so the answers we were hoping to get from them did not materialise. It was agreed by all that a Committee is set up which will consist of all Regional Organisers with the National Organiser, Tim Ablitt, as Chairman.

The Committee will now run all EDL issues and a face to face meeting of the Regional Organisers will be held on the 26th October 2013 to finalise a strategy plan for the way forward.

The Regional Organisers and the Support Group would like to wish Tommy and Kevin all the best in their new move and to thank them for starting the EDL in 2009 and all the commitment that they have given to the EDL.

A further statement will be issued with more details once the meeting has been held.

The RO's will be available to answer questions at Bradford or at any other time so please contact them.

No Surrender

EDIT ALSO SEE HERE http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/latest-news/latest-news/1222-edl-announce-tim-ablitt-as-new-chairman


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Oct 10, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> *"NEW EDL LEADER ANNOUNCED:
> 
> My Name is Alex Wood, I'm a former UKIP candidate and political battle axe with over 5 years experience campaigning on the front lines of right-wing politics.
> 
> ...




Mein Furher ..................... To the ends of the tinny............

"battle axe"?????????? eh?
5 Years........... hardened........ well in EDL terms, pensionable!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 10, 2013)

Leading patriot opinion foamer writes on this weeks EDL developments.

http://whoistherealracists.wordpres...-mr-lennon-confusion-rains-in-patriot-branes/


----------



## Corax (Oct 10, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leading patriot opinion foamer writes on this weeks EDL developments.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpres...-mr-lennon-confusion-rains-in-patriot-branes/


Now for a short commercial break.

Don't change that dial though!  When we come back we've got twenty pages about classism, literacy, and left-wing hypocrisy!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 10, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leading patriot opinion foamer writes on this weeks EDL developments.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpres...-mr-lennon-confusion-rains-in-patriot-branes/


It's not funny, that, you know.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 11, 2013)

where to said:


> Turns out Ghaffur Hussein , one of QF guys met TR for first time this week...



I can imagine these two getting on pretty well actually. Neither are half as clever as they think they are and both are opportunistic attention seekers, hate-filled and deeply unhappy. Yay.

BTW Hussein is ex-QF, they let him go when their funding was cut.


----------



## seventh bullet (Oct 11, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leading patriot opinion foamer writes on this weeks EDL developments.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpres...-mr-lennon-confusion-rains-in-patriot-branes/



Fuck off.


----------



## FNG (Oct 11, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leading patriot opinion foamer writes on this weeks EDL developments.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpres...-mr-lennon-confusion-rains-in-patriot-branes/









Bonkers


----------



## cesare (Oct 11, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leading patriot opinion foamer writes on this weeks EDL developments.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpres...-mr-lennon-confusion-rains-in-patriot-branes/


What wanker wrote that? Bloody hell, where did you dig that up from?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 11, 2013)

He did. His worst effort yet. Just pathetic.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 11, 2013)

Not even i like it.


----------



## cesare (Oct 11, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Not even i like it.





Did your teeth itch and toes curl up?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2013)

says a bit for the sheer arrogance to not only write that, but post it up here after the flak his last piss poor parody got. Its tellingly 'fuck you'


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2013)

HnH questions for robinson:
1) Will you accept your role in inciting and fostering anti-Muslim hatred in communities up and down the country?
2) If so, what do you intend to do about it?
3) Do you admit to deliberately conflating Islamist extremism with the faith of Islam to spread an anti-Muslim agenda?
4) If the EDL has been taken over by far right extremists will you name names?
5) Will you reveal the names of the EDL funders?
6) Will you renounce your past links and speak out against Pam Geller and Robert Spencer?


----------



## krink (Oct 11, 2013)

asked him if he still thinks people should join edl.


----------



## Sue (Oct 11, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> HnH questions for robinson:
> 1) Will you accept your role in inciting and fostering anti-Muslim hatred in communities up and down the country?
> 2) If so, what do you intend to do about it?
> 3) Do you admit to deliberately conflating Islamist extremism with the faith of Islam to spread an anti-Muslim agenda?
> ...



1) sounds like an offer....

Don't really understand the point of this. Is there one?


----------



## The Black Hand (Oct 11, 2013)

New racist & fascist violence supporting leader of the EDL

At a meeting in an empty pub on wednesday night some 'regional organisers' of the EDL wrote down a shortlist for the new EDL bosses job on the back of a fag packet. 

The list was so short that one Tim Ablitt got the job. 

Don't forget, there is no democracy in the EDL, the rank and file are not allowed to have ideas, they are not allowed democratic debate, they are just there as cannon fodder to do as the EDL leadership tells them. Of course, everybody has known for a long time of the fascists present within the EDL.

The new structure of the EDL has been announced on their pages; "It was agreed by all that a Committee is set up which will consist of all Regional Organisers with the National Organiser, Tim Ablitt, as Chairman.
The Committee will now run all EDL issues and a face to face meeting of the Regional Organisers will be held on the 26th October 2013 to finalise a strategy plan for the way forward." 

So we are to wait till 26th October to find out what they will be doing next, which, we think will be more of the same. If there was any doubt, this appointment of Ablitt completes the journey of the EDL to a fascist organisation, and in many ways Ablitt carries fascists politics with him. 

Ablitt, who called the millions of striking public sector workers "Left wing parasites" was given the job following the departure of Tommy Robinson. Ablitt has form in the tiny British Freedom, a party formed by ex BNP activists.

Ablitt is the same EDL activist that was arrested in July 2010 following an operation by armed police who suspected the EDL of attempting to blow up a Bournemouth mosque.

Police marksmen shot the tyres out on a van and arrested seven EDL activists including Ablitt, on suspicion of conspiracy to cause an explosion at the mosque.

This makes anti fascists even more determined to continue our struggles for the common good. Solidarity to our brothers and sisters, taking the fight to the EDL fascists in Bradford on saturday, and not forgetting comrades on the anti fascist march in Liverpool on saturday either. The Infidels have said they will attack people in liverpool, and the fascists have also issued threats to people protesting against them in Bradford. Take care of each other out there and remember that Self defence is No offence.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 11, 2013)

Meanwhile UKIP last night finished second in three council by elections


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 11, 2013)

and it begins!
https://twitter.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/388685225850830848


----------



## treelover (Oct 11, 2013)

> opinion foamer writes on this weeks EDL developments.


 
love it, going to use it..


----------



## treelover (Oct 11, 2013)

> Under attack in town, American film crew got it on camera. Good punch to be fair! America will see first hand


 
So, the U.S angle is being exploited as predicted here


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 11, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Leading patriot opinion foamer writes on this weeks EDL developments.
> 
> http://whoistherealracists.wordpres...-mr-lennon-confusion-rains-in-patriot-branes/


many a good word coined by accident


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 11, 2013)

Amusing that taffboy has probably got more laughs from that typo (a typo he'll no doubt claim to have made by purpose in a minute) than all the posts on his shit blog put together.


----------



## Corax (Oct 11, 2013)

treelover said:


> So, the U.S angle is being exploited as predicted here


Where's that from?

Is it mal's link?  It's dead now.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 11, 2013)

Corax said:


> Where's that from?
> 
> Is it mal's link?  It's dead now.



Yeah, it's a tweet that Yaxley-Lennon did. Sounds like they're filming some kind of documentary. 

Do we reckon he's hoping for a lucrative speaking tour afterwards? Will the yanks let him in after what he pulled last time he was there?


----------



## Corax (Oct 11, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> Yeah, it's a tweet that Yaxley-Lennon did. Sounds like they're filming some kind of documentary.


I'm automatically imagining Louis Theroux presenting it...


----------



## emanymton (Oct 12, 2013)

Tommy says sorry. 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/11/edl-tommy-robinson-sorry-fear-muslims


----------



## Nice one (Oct 12, 2013)

emanymton said:


> Tommy says sorry.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/11/edl-tommy-robinson-sorry-fear-muslims



fully grassing up mode: 
*Robinson, 30, who this week dramatically quit as leader of the extreme rightwing group known for thuggish street protests and openly racist followers, also said he would now talk to police to help them investigate dangerous racists in the organisation.*


----------



## FNG (Oct 12, 2013)

this bit





> Nawaz said he would work to introduce Robinson to his own contacts in government and the Home Office in an attempt to procure government funding. Robinson said his future work would involve taking on radicalism on all fronts, although he could not support anti-fascist groups because they also subscribed to "communism" or were "anarchists".



 Interesting bit of brand positioning there.A government platform for his anti-left scabbing veiws


----------



## grit (Oct 12, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> and it begins!
> https://twitter.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/388685225850830848



Broken link.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 12, 2013)

like searchlight with AFA, he will be 'monitoring' extremes from left and right. as far as his former eejit followers are concerned, that is grassing. he has a lot of info on people (and certain people have info on him). as for anti-fascists, he has always been a fuckbugle.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 12, 2013)

intersting that both robinson and the salma yaqoob acknowledge 'strong' and effective antifascist organisation and opposition to the EDL as working. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sal...qoob_b_4084739.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008
and also trying to link with zionists and failing.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 12, 2013)

_Nawaz, who heads the deradicalisation thinktank the Quilliam Foundation, and is also a prospective Lib Dem MP, _


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 12, 2013)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...esignation-edl-non-event?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 12, 2013)

rumours that EDL, NF and C18 members clash in bradford over who is the more irrelevant!


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 12, 2013)

Only a couple of fash scouts about in Liverpool this afternoon - about 7000 marchers at the Unite organised march and rally


----------



## audiotech (Oct 12, 2013)

Bradford:


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2013)

So, the many thousands of pounds made last night by the beloved of some English disco lovers, where's it gone? Any local groups see a penny of it? Yeah right.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2013)

casuals reckoned they and the rovers 'firm' (jeezus!) were going to attack the disco bods, any info butchers? also shit turnout and infighting at bradford, no show in liverpool.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2013)

Yes, nothing happened. Nothing was ever going to happen. Some people shouted at some people in a shop seven hours earlier. That's it. Where is the English disco lovers money gone though?


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2013)

another 'victory' for the hardly visible casuals then. i dont know about the discos or their money. will check further. Ta!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2013)

Entrepreneurial parasites.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 13, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Entrepreneurial parasites.



Not surprising, if you look at the EDL News group which they are associated with the main complaint about the EDL seems to be that they are poor and inferior to superior hard working plucky Poles


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2013)

just for the record, the discos are NOT associated with EDL news. also, what was the disco's money raising thing for?
edit: report and pix on bradford
http://n1ck1ee.wordpress.com/


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> just for the record, the discos are NOT associated with EDL news. also, what was the disco's money raising thing for?


For their own pocket it looks like.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 13, 2013)

ta, shall check further.


----------



## Corax (Oct 13, 2013)

I've taken the radical step of asking them. Shall report back with any reply.


----------



## krink (Oct 13, 2013)

cesare said:


> What wanker wrote that? Bloody hell, where did you dig that up from?



here's another bit on that - schnews endorsed it, tweeted it and responded to criticism with an attempt to smear anti-fascists. I've  read schnews since the very start and expected better to be honest.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 13, 2013)

Bill Oddie-a-like John Banks gets himself lifted for gobbing off as usual


----------



## Corax (Oct 13, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Bill Oddie-a-like John Banks gets himself lifted for gobbing off as usual



If that was presented to me with all political context removed, I'd be bang on his side in that exchange tbh...


----------



## tony.c (Oct 13, 2013)

Corax said:


> If that was presented to me with all political context removed, I'd be bang on his side in that exchange tbh...


The point is though that there is obviously a deliberate political context involved. They want to ban the burkha and hijab, and OB does have the power to order the removal of face covering, as they do with anarchists on protests. I doubt that he would oppose the OB telling the black block to remove masks.
tbh I don't know why OB hasn't nicked edl members for wearing their facemasks and balaclavas.


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 13, 2013)

https://twitter.com/TimAblitt/status/389137330327785472

The new Leader is going down well on twatter.


----------



## Corax (Oct 13, 2013)

tony.c said:


> The point is though that there is obviously a deliberate political context involved. They want to ban the burkha and hijab, and OB does have the power to order the removal of face covering, as they do with anarchists on protests. I doubt that he would oppose the OB telling the black block to remove masks.


Of course he wouldn't.  But if it was black bloc arguing with the copper about it - and the police refusing/unable to give a proper reason _*why*, and _instead just quoting the section that gave them authorisation for the demand - then I know which side of the fence my reaction would fall on.


----------



## LiamO (Oct 13, 2013)

tbf.. everybody is entitled to a little bit more of an explanation than 'Cos I said so'.


----------



## ibilly99 (Oct 13, 2013)

*Tim Ablitt EDL* ‏@*TimAblitt*  2h
@*TRobinsonNewEra* Shut it you surrendered. What happened to "EDL till I die"? Then you block me for no reason? Get out of here fatty. #*EDL*


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 13, 2013)

ibilly99 said:


> *Tim Ablitt EDL* ‏@*TimAblitt*  2h
> @*TRobinsonNewEra* Shut it you surrendered. What happened to "EDL till I die"? Then you block me for no reason? Get out of here fatty. #*EDL*


Parody account.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 14, 2013)

Disco lovers are coming to brixton, and a bit about where the money raised goes 

https://www.facebook.com/events/574824205888012/


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2013)

Chariry for that events then. All the other events i could find _apart from the bristol one _also said charity.


----------



## Fingers (Oct 14, 2013)

Perhaps the Bristol one was a fundraiser for new flares


----------



## Corax (Oct 14, 2013)

Corax said:


> I've taken the radical step of asking them. Shall report back with any reply.


Had a reply with a breakdown - although apparently not yet done the adding up on Bristol 12/10 yet.  Sets out their intentions if it profited though.  Out of courtesy I've asked for the okay to publish online, and will do once I have it.

Also finishes with a pledge for more transparency in future.


----------



## andysays (Oct 14, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Disco lovers are coming to brixton, and a bit about where the money raised goes
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/events/574824205888012/





> *Tom Robinson is going*


----------



## Corax (Oct 14, 2013)

Corax said:


> Had a reply with a breakdown - although apparently not yet done the adding up on Bristol 12/10 yet.  Sets out their intentions if it profited though.  Out of courtesy I've asked for the okay to publish online, and will do once I have it.
> 
> Also finishes with a pledge for more transparency in future.


Nod given to repeat the pre-Bristol breakdown.  They've asked that I don't repeat what they've said about Bristol as they're 'aware of issues and are trying to take care of them'.  Others probably know what that means far more than I do.

Anyway:


> Break down for our events:
> 04/07 The Shoreditch Butchery, London, raised £350. All of that went to help rebuilding the Muswell Hill Islamic centre burnt down about a month previously.
> 06/09 Dalston Superstore, London, raised £1633. Half went to local charity, Hackney Pirates, the other half went to another charity, All Out.
> 14/09 (not sure if that's the right date) World Headquarters, Newcastle, raised almost £300 for the Great North Air Ambulance (sorry for the vagueness on this one, I wasn't directly involved in that one and don't have the information readily available).
> 27/09 The Old Queen's Head, London, raised £590. DJs expenses/fees £175, £300 to be used as deposit for next event (which will be announced tomorrow), the remaining £115 will be going to the Muswell Hill centre (as soon as they get back to me).


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 16, 2013)

Charity walk news - http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/16/edl-tommy-robinson-carroll-cps-drop-charges


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2013)

Given the footage they had no choice. Joke arrests.


----------



## treelover (Oct 18, 2013)

> *Prominent UK Muslims under police protection after al-Shabaab threats*
> Islamist terror group singles out specific British Muslims in video that incites people to 'cut the necks of the disbelievers'
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/17/al-shabaab-uk-muslims-police-protection


 

Looks like the other fanatics are turning on their own co-religionists now


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 18, 2013)

Not sure that turning on their own is a very useful way of putting it.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 18, 2013)

I





butchersapron said:


> Chariry for that events then. All the other events i could find _apart from the bristol one _also said charity.



Mate of mine djed at the first one and another mate who was involved has been pulling them on this since then about all this. Not got any answers on facebook etc and I think he gave up in the end

ETA just seen they might now be saying the costs etc


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 18, 2013)

Dan U said:


> I
> 
> Mate of mine djed at the first one and another mate who was involved has been pulling them on this since then about all this. Not got any answers on facebook etc and I think he gave up in the end
> 
> ETA just seen they might now be saying the costs etc


Like the count at a Floridian election!


----------



## manny-p (Oct 18, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> So, the many thousands of pounds made last night by the beloved of some English disco lovers, where's it gone? Any local groups see a penny of it? Yeah right.


They are a bunch of muggy cunts.


----------



## Nigel (Oct 18, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> *"NEW EDL LEADER ANNOUNCED:
> 
> My Name is Alex Wood, I'm a former UKIP candidate and political battle axe with over 5 years experience campaigning on the front lines of right-wing politics.
> 
> ...


----------



## Corax (Oct 18, 2013)

Did you mean to post something along with the quote Nigel?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 19, 2013)

manny-p said:


> They are a bunch of muggy cunts.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 19, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


>





Why is he not still on tv?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 19, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Why is he not still on tv?


He's still the location scout for _Casualty_.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 20, 2013)

http://tompride.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/edl-names2.png


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 20, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> http://tompride.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/edl-names2.png



Your least funny and least political yet. Slow handclaps all round.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2013)

jesus


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 20, 2013)

Fucking Fuckwit


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2013)

why does he keep doing it?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2013)

To be fair, I don't think that one is his. But the fact that people see unfunny stuff and automatically think that he wrote it should probably tell him something.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 20, 2013)

Yes Tom Pride is a completely different person and not always such a fuckwit, unlike taffboy.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 20, 2013)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Your least funny and least political yet. Slow handclaps all round.



1) It's not mine. Although I chuckled, it hardly the funniest thing ever, though I like how it's used a fairly standard social media meme. Thanks for thinking my own output is superior.

2) I missed the edict that all stuff relating to this matter had to be political. Could you give me a link or something?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 20, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> To be fair, I don't think that one is his. But the fact that people see unfunny stuff and automatically think that he wrote it should probably tell him something.



It tells me they're not capable of the most basic deduction and comprehension without lurching to judgment. See : Lots of stuff on the internet.

LOL - there's 3 of the sillies. That's funnier than the original piece.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It tells me they're not capable of the most basic deduction and comprehension without lurching to judgment. See : Lots of stuff on the internet.


It tells me that you are so unfunny that you subsume all unfunny stuff on the internet in the consciousness of posters here.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> 1) It's not mine. Although I chuckled, it hardly the funniest thing ever, though I like how it's used a fairly standard social media meme. Thanks for thinking my own output is superior.
> 
> 2) I missed the edict that all stuff relating to this matter had to be political. Could you give me a link or something?


And btw, this unfunny thing was still funnier than your output - it's aleatory nature at least raises a hope of a laugh.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 20, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> And btw, this unfunny thing was still funnier than your output - it's aleatory nature guarantees it raises more smiles than your tripe.



That's your opinion, not Fozzies. I'm not going to go round the houses again on my stuff because I know you would sit here all afternoon repeating yourself and I've got stuff to do.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> That's your opinion, not Fozzies. I'm not going to go round the houses again on my stuff because I know you would sit here all afternoon repeating yourself and I've got stuff to do.


What like write the next exact same piece one more time for one of your unfunny blogs?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 20, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> It tells me that you are so unfunny that you subsume all unfunny stuff on the internet in the consciousness of posters here.



Well that's funny in itself, and you knew what was going on. But the facts are there : Some people were very dense in this instance, and quick to judge. It's only a small thing, but obfuscating mitigation doesn't really add up. 

Evidence that it was my blog : Nil. 

The vast majority of links I post are not mine. The assumption just as much made was "Taffboy has linked to something, therefore Taffboy wrote it". "Doh" at best.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2013)

nah, its taffboy linked to unfunny lets mock the EDL out of existence badly stuff therefor given his previous its probably his work


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Well that's funny in itself, and you knew what was going on. But the facts are there : Some people were very dense in this instance, and quick to judge. It's only a small thing, but obfuscating mitigation doesn't really add up.
> 
> Evidence that it was my blog : Nil.
> 
> The vast majority of links I post are not mine. The assumption just as much made was "Taffboy has linked to something, therefore Taffboy wrote it". "Doh" at best.


Evidence that it was your blog : that it was really really unfunny. And of late, you have also taken to posting links to your blogs with no comments or indication that this is what they are - even your serious one. So, no this is a hole of your own digging.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 20, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What like write the next exact same piece one more time for one of your unfunny blogs?



You are now playing with the words "exact same". The blog, like many does go over some of the same ground. It also addresses different issues, perceptions, events and flawed thinking in the weird and ugly world that has managed to inspire nearly 16000 posts here alone. I daresay some of them are very similar and most people wouldn't give a shit to critique it. But you'd look to slag off just about anything, and are known for it, which is far more an issue for you than for me. Good afternoon.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> You are now playing with the words "exact same". The blog, like many does go over some of the same ground. It also addresses different issues, perceptions, events and flawed thinking in the weird and ugly world that has managed to inspire nearly 16000 posts here alone. I daresay some of them are very similar and most people wouldn't give a shit to critique it. But you'd look to slag off just about anything, and are known for it, which is far more an issue for you than for me. Good afternoon.


It's the same old unfunny class prejudiced shit every time. Go write another one.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 20, 2013)

try this for size butchers! 
http://dailyracist.org/


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 20, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> try this for size butchers!
> http://dailyracist.org/


Vile


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 20, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> try this for size butchers!
> http://dailyracist.org/


That's shit for the same reasons. Did you do it?


----------



## Nigel (Oct 20, 2013)

Corax said:


> Did you mean to post something along with the quote Nigel?


Not sure where that came from.

Apologies


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 21, 2013)

Please do not seek cause for mirth in this tale of a bigot of questionable wisdom. It will not do. It would be VERY WRONG and upsetting to more delicate readers.

Instead, attempt to earnestly engage with the undoubtedly sophisticated _politics _of the situation.

_http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/feat...rse-tattoo-man-identified-as-darrell-copeland_


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2013)

Oh shut up you twat.

Thanks you so much for posting that btw, Can i buy you  a new car because it's such a great link. Seriously, what do i owe you for the pleasure that you're brought me by posting that link?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 21, 2013)

And you lecture me on humour? I don't have a licence btw, but thanks. Poor Butch, he who barks most, yet is perhaps most sensitive of all. Someone put a link up wot he didn't get pleasure from, and he had to do a swear. Hope things are brighter for you in the morning old bean.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 21, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> try this for size butchers!
> http://dailyracist.org/



This is shit, everything EDLnews does is shit and unfunny.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 21, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> And you lecture me on humour? I don't have a licence btw, but thanks. Poor Butch, he who barks most, yet is perhaps most sensitive of all. Someone put a link up wot he didn't get pleasure from, and he had to do a swear. Hope things are brighter for you in the morning old bean.



you're a fucking idiot and the next one going on ignore as of now. Div.

ETA: it now looks to me as if I'm saying it to J Ed - obviously I'm replying to taffboy in case there was any doubt.


----------



## smokedout (Oct 21, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Yes Tom Pride is a completely different person and not always such a fuckwit, unlike taffboy.




he's a prick, and a problematic prick at that (making up/running stories that aren't true based on the flimsiest of evidence and refusing to backdown or make clarifications when he's caught out, promoting conspiracy shit and exploiting spats amongst people doing real politics to get sensationalist stories to drive traffic to his blog)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2013)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Mein Furher ..................... To the ends of the tinny............
> 
> "battle axe"?????????? eh?
> 5 Years........... hardened........ well in EDL terms, pensionable!



The premiership stuff had me actually laughing out loud!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> That's shit for the same reasons. Did you do it?


cheeky wee radge! no i didnae!


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 22, 2013)

J Ed said:


> This is shit, everything EDLnews does is shit and unfunny.


im not in EDL News.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 22, 2013)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> 1) It's not mine. Although I chuckled, it hardly the funniest thing ever, though I like how it's used a fairly standard social media meme. Thanks for thinking my own output is superior.
> 
> 2) I missed the edict that all stuff relating to this matter had to be political. Could you give me a link or something?


 
I think you have misunderstood me, so I shall clarify.

I have laughed _at_ your previous efforts at satire because they have been so utterly piss poor.

The political content of your previous work in this area has been completely reactionary.

That image you linked to lacked the unintentional hilarity of your own work, but also the reactionary politics. So whilst it gave me less to laugh at you about, it was actually an improvement in other respects. I am therefore disappointed it was not your own work.


----------



## chilango (Oct 22, 2013)

What the fuck is with all these shite "anti-EDL" websites?

Fucking unfunny, sneery, morons. 

Just stop it.


----------



## treelover (Oct 23, 2013)

J Ed said:


> This is shit, everything EDLnews does is shit and unfunny.


 
Why do they bother, the effort must be considerable and for what?


----------



## audiotech (Oct 23, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> he's on like News night or something


----------



## J Ed (Oct 25, 2013)

I notice that Bob Pitt is involved in EDLnews. Not sure whose reputation suffers from that association...


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 25, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2013/when-tommy-met-mo.html

Quitting The English Defence League: When Tommy Met Mo, produced by Mentorn Scotland, will air on Monday 28 October at 22.35.


----------



## cantsin (Oct 28, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2013/when-tommy-met-mo.html
> 
> Quitting The English Defence League: When Tommy Met Mo, produced by Mentorn Scotland, will air on Monday 28 October at 22.35.



bit of an eye opener so far....dont know anything about this Mo fella, and there must be more to all this than meets the eye I guess, but can't help be impressed by the simple idea of a Muslim preacher talking to a room full of EDL, all being sensible, questions being asked and answered, people appearing to listen to each other.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Oct 28, 2013)

Apart from failing miserably in the peado dialogue and his opinions about veiling , Mo seemed alright until revealed he hadn't made his mind up about chopping off peoples hands and stoning adulterers.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 28, 2013)

Who is Mo Ansar?


----------



## FNG (Oct 29, 2013)

http://en.anarchopedia.org/Mohammed_Ansar

 establishment friendly muslim, tends to fudge over the difficult bits regarding his theology see above and his slavery twitter debate with Tom Holland where he defers to a website offering a revisionist interpretation of the Arab Slave Trade


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 29, 2013)

He looked a right prick in the end.

which in my mind he is, had some arguments on twatter with him.


----------



## krink (Oct 29, 2013)

Mo Ansar is an arsehole. Tom Holland has kicked his arse few times on twitter.


----------



## spliff (Oct 30, 2013)

"@MoAnsar is like the Candyman of Twitter, you Tweet his name 3 times and the Police turn up.”
http://moansarblog.blogspot.co.uk/


> If slaves are treated with justly, with full rights, and no oppression whatsoever…why would anyone object


http://hurryupharry.org/2013/06/05/exposing-the-pseudo-moderation-of-mo-ansar/


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 30, 2013)

http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....cism-Islamic/story-20002709-detail/story.html
So the reason these fuckwits want to march in Exeter is because the university has an Islamic Studies department .


----------



## J Ed (Oct 30, 2013)

Mo Ansar is a good example of what I think we should call the chameleon commentariat


----------



## Corax (Nov 1, 2013)

The police have re-opened the Charlene Downes case.  Cue a twisted misinfo flurry from the 'patriots'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 1, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Mo Ansar is a good example of what I think we should call the chameleon commentariat


mo's a lizard?


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 1, 2013)

Wasn't sure which thread to stick this in, but as he's been mentioned in here before (even though I'm sure he views the EDL as a bit liberal)

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/...ial-hatred-after-wearing-ku-klux-klan-outfit/


----------



## Corax (Nov 1, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> Wasn't sure which thread to stick this in, but as he's been mentioned in here before (even though I'm sure he views the EDL as a bit liberal)
> 
> http://www.expressandstar.com/news/...ial-hatred-after-wearing-ku-klux-klan-outfit/


_"as he sports a distinctive white hooded KKK costume."
_
Odd phrasing!  Like something from a red carpet write-up.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 4, 2013)

????????????????????
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/shortcuts/2013/nov/04/who-are-edl-angels-pass-notes
AND 
http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....tacted-group/story-20029914-detail/story.html
EEK.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 4, 2013)

Almost like someone has just been in contact with the guardian. And are now collaborating weeks after the funeral


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 4, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> ????????????????????
> http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....tacted-group/story-20029914-detail/story.html
> EEK.



Oh FFS: "Adding: "Our message is that we will not tolerate extremist Islam and we want to open up to everyone. It's not Muslims who are the problem, it's the book they follow.""

So:
Wants to open up to everyone...... except people who believe the Koran.... does this woman really want to be doing this?


----------



## steeplejack (Nov 4, 2013)

That rather assumes the "Muslim woman" exists, and isn't a figment of an imagination rather starved of press attention, since the Luton rodent ran up a drainpipe.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 4, 2013)

If only Prof Bob was still at EMRC!


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 5, 2013)

Apologies if I have missed reference to it on here or other threads and it may also be a wind up. But i am hearing from sources that there has been a re launch of the British Union of Fascists!
Apparently there is talk of them protesting on Cable Street sometime in the near future.
Anyone else heard owt? or am I just being set up?


----------



## ddraig (Nov 5, 2013)

that would be funny


----------



## steeplejack (Nov 5, 2013)

Sprocket. said:


> Apologies if I have missed reference to it on here or other threads and it may also be a wind up. But i am hearing from sources that there has been a re launch of the British Union of Fascists!
> Apparently there is talk of them protesting on Cable Street sometime in the near future.
> Anyone else heard owt? or am I just being set up?



It's absolutely true. Run by the troublingly weird Gary Raikes, ex-fuhrer of BNP Scotland, who fancies himself as a latter day Mosley with a thousandth of the oratorical skill and more facial hair. The cast of the "new" BUF seems to be another shuffling of the pack of far right inadequates, losers and touts, doomed forever to meet in rarely vaccuumed hotel "conference suites". (see also Weston, Paul)

google "Gary Raikes new Blackshirts" and you'll be able to view their hilarious website. Raikes posing in the BUF uniform reminded me of serial US presidential candidate Jackson Kirk Grimes, Duce of the American Fascisti, posing in a variety of Mussolini costumes in his campaign literature.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 5, 2013)

yes they are trying to provoke through their use of 'uniforms' - ie, army and navy cast offs, fake gestapo hats etc. this is supposed to create a stir but in fact is just embarrassing. destined for nowhere. if even the bellends of the infidels and EDL think they are a joke then the future bodes ill for them.


----------



## Favelado (Nov 5, 2013)

Sprocket. said:


> Apologies if I have missed reference to it on here or other threads and it may also be a wind up. But i am hearing from sources that there has been a re launch of the British Union of Fascists!
> Apparently there is talk of them protesting on Cable Street sometime in the near future.
> Anyone else heard owt? or am I just being set up?



Fantastic. Choose the scene of your most legendary defeat to inspire the birth of a new movement.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 5, 2013)

there'll be about 10 of them there if they don't realise before


----------



## love detective (Nov 5, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Fantastic. Choose the scene of your most legendary defeat to inspire the birth of a new movement.



Doing exactly that worked very well indeed for Serbian Nationalism in relation to the Battle of Kosovo in 1389


----------



## Favelado (Nov 5, 2013)

love detective said:


> Doing exactly that worked very well indeed for Serbian Nationalism in relation to the Battle of Kosovo in 1389



I saw that they made a documentary of the event that went down a storm with the domestic viewers too. Surely that worked because it resonated with a large part of the populace.  Cable Street just means "The British Nazis got beaten and good riddance" to the public here.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2013)

Even Arthur fowler (C19) was there on the other side.


----------



## love detective (Nov 5, 2013)

Favelado said:


> I saw that they made a documentary of the event that went down a storm with the domestic viewers too. Surely that worked because it resonated with a large part of the populace.  Cable Street just means "The British Nazis got beaten and good riddance" to the public here.



put enough time & space between an actual event and current time and given the right resources it can mean anything you want it to mean - kosovo 1389 is one of the best examples of that


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 5, 2013)

cable street was between antifascists and plod anyway. oh, and apparently they new version has '2,500' members according to a statement today on the sacking of one of their main eejits which i make to be 2499. scary!


----------



## Serotonin (Nov 6, 2013)

2500 likes on every  version of the various Facebook pages they have had closed down in the last year more like.


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 6, 2013)

steeplejack said:


> It's absolutely true. Run by the troublingly weird Gary Raikes, ex-fuhrer of BNP Scotland, who fancies himself as a latter day Mosley with a thousandth of the oratorical skill and more facial hair. The cast of the "new" BUF seems to be another shuffling of the pack of far right inadequates, losers and touts, doomed forever to meet in rarely vaccuumed hotel "conference suites". (see also Weston, Paul)
> 
> google "Gary Raikes new Blackshirts" and you'll be able to view their hilarious website. Raikes posing in the BUF uniform reminded me of serial US presidential candidate Jackson Kirk Grimes, Duce of the American Fascisti, posing in a variety of Mussolini costumes in his campaign literature.



Thanks for the confirmation, I honestly thought it must be a wind up!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2013)

If they are going to turn up in uniform, however mum made, its going to fall foul of the very legislation against political uniforms that was enacted post Cable Street


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 6, 2013)

Sprocket. said:


> Thanks for the confirmation, I honestly thought it must be a wind up!


incredibly, no! its like the french having a dien bien phu re-enactment society.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 6, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> If they are going to turn up in uniform, however mum made, its going to fall foul of the very legislation against political uniforms that was enacted post Cable Street



thats the least of their worries. talk big, fall hard.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> thats the least of their worries. talk big, fall hard.




it doesn't take a tactical genius to realise that stationing your objectionable selves on a road that has one exit/entrance either end is liable to end in trouble.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 6, 2013)

dotcom! are you referring to the UAF tactics or fash?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2013)

the latter


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 6, 2013)

steeplejack said:


> google "Gary Raikes new Blackshirts" and you'll be able to view their hilarious website. Raikes posing in the BUF uniform reminded me of serial US presidential candidate Jackson Kirk Grimes, Duce of the American Fascisti, posing in a variety of Mussolini costumes in his campaign literature.



Oh their site has me in stitches........... you should read some of the 'policy' documents....... class stuff, really thought provoking stuff.... and not stuff put together by social misfits who got bullied at school...... honest!

http://www.				  europeanaction	.com/id80.html
I thought this was their site at first 

(soz!)


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 6, 2013)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Oh their site has me in stitches........... you should read some of the 'policy' documents....... class stuff, really thought provoking stuff.... and not stuff put together by social misfits who got bullied at school...... honest!
> 
> http:/ still a bunch of fascists .com
> I thought this was their site at first


 Break the link, they might find Raikes a joke but they are still the real deal


----------



## krink (Nov 9, 2013)

i wasn't there but the regional edl demo in shotton colliery is reported as 150 - that's about half what they had last year.


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 9, 2013)

as we're talking about them in this thread, the NBU held a solidarity demo for Golden Dawn today

http://www.demotix.com/news/3183603/new-british-union-nbu-solidarity-protest-greek-embassy-london


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 9, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> as we're talking about them in this thread, the NBU held a solidarity demo for Golden Dawn today
> 
> http://www.demotix.com/news/3183603/new-british-union-nbu-solidarity-protest-greek-embassy-london



Healthy looking lot....... look like they are ready to protect our national identity....... NOT


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 9, 2013)

They're whining on facebook about getting spanked in a pub afterwards.

Bless.


----------



## gawkrodger (Nov 10, 2013)

hohoho. any links?


----------



## tony.c (Nov 10, 2013)

'Chubby' Henderson (former Chelsea Headhunters, NF, and C18) dies.
http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2013/11/forgotten-chelsea-headhunter-chubby.html


----------



## Limerick Red (Nov 10, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> hohoho. any links?


to start with
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/397583473325116159/


----------



## Red Storm (Nov 10, 2013)

They captured their flag. 

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd....20x720/941300_741663375847474_940308344_n.jpg

On Saturday 9th November, notorious fascists and neo-nazi has-beens called a demonstration in support of the jailed leadership of the murderous neo-nazi Golden Dawn party at the Greek Embassy in London. 

O





> ver 40 militants from the AFN responded in a co-ordinated action to send a strong message to those attending or thinking about attending neo-nazi and racist demonstrations - that they are not welcomed and they will be opposed. The message was spelt out to them with a "frank discussion" before the demonstration. For all their talk of "smashing the reds" not one of the 12 fascists said a word, instead the sense of shear fear on their faces would hopefully make an impression and knock some sense in the younger attendees that were present. Around 5 of the younger fascists were escorted out of the pub onto trains by AFN militants and told to fuck off home.
> 
> After we had left the remaining fascists, who had hoped for a large police presence at their pub but with none insight, pleaded with community support officers to escort them to the demo as they were too afraid to leave. They ended up getting taxis to the embassy.
> 
> ...


----------



## J Ed (Nov 10, 2013)

These NBU weirdos are about as authentic as Al-Muhajiroun


----------



## treelover (Nov 10, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> They captured their flag.
> 
> https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd....20x720/941300_741663375847474_940308344_n.jpg
> 
> ...


 
wise actions, especially letting the younger ones go home.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 10, 2013)

fun day out apparently. tho not for fascists! 
http://londonantifascists.wordpress.com/2013/11/10/report-on-action-against-neo-nazis-in-london/


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 10, 2013)

tony.c said:


> 'Chubby' Henderson (former Chelsea Headhunters, NF, and C18) dies.
> http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2013/11/forgotten-chelsea-headhunter-chubby.html



so no sequel to his bullshit autobiog who wants it then?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 10, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> to start with
> http://www.pinterest.com/pin/397583473325116159/



well played sir!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 12, 2013)

Organiser of Bristol CHARITY WALK that led to Battle of Redfield Wetherspoons CLEARED!

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Organi...-hit-charity/story-20065096-detail/story.html


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 12, 2013)

Interesting that both this bloke and the 'head' of the bristol edl live in posh villages outside of bristol.


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 12, 2013)

The fellow failing to answer the question "what is the edl?"At the start of 'the revolution won't be televised' skit is apparently the leader of Reading EDL


----------



## chilango (Nov 12, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> The fellow failing to answer the question "what is the edl?"At the start of 'the revolution won't be televised' skit is apparently the leader of Reading EDL



Link?


----------



## framed (Nov 12, 2013)

chilango said:


> Link?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01k4g3d/The_Revolution_Will_Be_Televised_Series_2_Episode_1/


----------



## chilango (Nov 12, 2013)

framed said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01k4g3d/The_Revolution_Will_Be_Televised_Series_2_Episode_1/


Ta.


----------



## barney_pig (Nov 12, 2013)

framed said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01k4g3d/The_Revolution_Will_Be_Televised_Series_2_Episode_1/


About 1:35 in


----------



## Anudder Oik (Nov 12, 2013)

J Ed said:


> These NBU weirdos are about as authentic as Al-Muhajiroun



Are you implying they have been set up by the state? I think these groups are genuine. Genuine scum, splitting off into different sects and grouplets around "personalities". In other words, a splintered plethora of fash around embittered and arguing leaders all at loggerheads with each other. In the book "the 43 group" you can see that this is nothing new. There were loads of groups back in the 40's and 50's, too, with all sorts of patriotic names. Splits, factions, you name it. I think this miniscule lot are A. genuine B. cunts.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 12, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> Are you implying they have been set up by the state? I think these groups are genuine. Genuine scum, splitting off into different sects and grouplets around "personalities". In other words, a splintered plethora of fash around embittered and arguing leaders all at loggerheads with each other. In the book "the 43 group" you can see that this is nothing new. There were loads of groups back in the 40's and 50's, too, with all sorts of patriotic names. Splits, factions, you name it. I think this miniscule lot are A. genuine B. cunts.


Weird fuckers glad the left aren't like that


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 12, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Weird fuckers glad the left aren't like that


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 15, 2013)

This article at least promotes a bit of thinking compared to most of the pasty faced tosh written about the EDL

http://brockley.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/weighing-into-tommy-robinson-debate.html


----------



## framed (Nov 15, 2013)

This one speculates about Quilliam's need of a big name success in order to boost their application for funding:

http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/11/ed...s-real-reasons-for-involvement-with-quilliam/


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 16, 2013)

leaderless, directionless, fragmented. is it over for the EDL?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 16, 2013)

200 in Exeter today for a national demo.... that is all....


----------



## Corax (Nov 16, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> leaderless, directionless, fragmented. is it over for the EDL?


And if it is, what will the fall-out be?

Fizzle, or will more overt groups such as the Infidels end up gaining?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 16, 2013)

EDL patriots protesting against the muslamification of Devon warn that Exeter pubs could be harboring Al Cider.


----------



## jakethesnake (Nov 16, 2013)

I've just got back from watching the edl visit Exeter. There was an anti-edl march which attracted about 1000 - pretty good for down here and more than the organisers were expecting, great atmosphere and very upbeat. The edl managed to get about 200 out, weren't allowed down the high street, but instead had a very short march down a back street from the grotty pub where they assembled to be kettled in the park for a couple of hours. Loads of police and the edl took a couple of nickings that I saw.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 16, 2013)

Did the pub put out that bunting for the occassion?


----------



## jakethesnake (Nov 16, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Did the pub put out that bunting for the occassion?


I think they did. I think they may come to regret hosting the edl. The Locomotive Inn, New North Road, Exeter EX4 4EP, 01392 275840 if any of you feel like contacting them for any reason.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 16, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Did the pub put out that bunting for the occassion?



Giving them the benefit of the doubt (only just) there was an England footy match last night and Rugby today.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Nov 16, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> I've just got back from watching the edl visit Exeter. There was an anti-edl march which attracted about 1000 - pretty good for down here and more than the organisers were expecting, great atmosphere and very upbeat. The edl managed to get about 200 out, weren't allowed down the high street, but instead had a very short march down a back street from the grotty pub where they assembled to be kettled in the park for a couple of hours. Loads of police and the edl took a couple of nickings that I saw.


Was that you up there they were chanting at? I was just out of shot to the left. They were a sorry lot.






I was chatting to an Exeter couple stood opposite watching but not going in who claimed to be regulars in the pub and said it normally had a few of them in. Dunno how true that is.






You can see the back and the front of their march in this one I took.






Small...

Welcome to your kettle, please turn left. And they did after some gentle shoving from their own stewards.






Didn't like us chanting at them as they left for their bus.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2013)

piss poor
http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....-held-Exeter/story-20090245-detail/story.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2013)

another trophy! 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...46121238.50752.198263566921606&type=1&theater


----------



## krink (Nov 17, 2013)

part way through this video a couple of young punk kids giving them some stick, pretty funny turns to wtf when edl burka boy turns up


----------



## krink (Nov 17, 2013)

krink said:


> i wasn't there but the regional edl demo in shotton colliery is reported as 150 - that's about half what they had last year.



revised figures after watching video of the shotton colliery march - i stopped counting at 300. 
anti-fascists turn out was about 30.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 17, 2013)

id on the Welsh flag holder would be appreciated if possible


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Nov 17, 2013)

krink said:


> part way through this video a couple of young punk kids giving them some stick, pretty funny turns to wtf when edl burka boy turns up


Fair dues to them, I was part of the little group winding them up behind those horses, but we were behind the horses


----------



## tony.c (Nov 17, 2013)

The woman holding one end of the Dartford Division banner looks like she is South East Asian. I've seen that some of them go in for mail order brides, but isn't this domestic abuse?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2013)

A rather silly post tony.


----------



## tony.c (Nov 17, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> A rather silly post tony.


Why?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2013)

That SEA women are all here as bought brides and have no political content of their own. Ok, it a joke, a failing one to make here and about this, but plenty of SEA women have dodgy experience with people operating under the islam banner.


----------



## tony.c (Nov 17, 2013)

I didn't say that all SEA women are bought brides. I have worked with lots of them, and I don't think that any of them would go on an EDL march, and I've never seen a picture of one on an EDL march before. But I do recall seeing reports of one or two EDL members having mail order brides.
OK probably not a valid assumption though.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 17, 2013)

That Gary Barlow in the second pic down?


----------



## emanymton (Nov 17, 2013)

I was in a service station when a bunch of EDL turned up once, and one of them did seam to have a much younger Asian women with them. While we can't know anything for certain it did look dodgy as fuck and rather unpleasant. She didn't seem very happy was was fast following him around.


----------



## krink (Nov 17, 2013)

bolshiebhoy said:


> Fair dues to them, I was part of the little group winding them up behind those horses, but we were behind the horses



yeah i was impressed with the punk kids, showed some spirit and they looked about 10 (but then everyone under 30 looks ten to me these days)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 17, 2013)

Has anybody heard of something planned in Far East London today? i.e. just south of the Thames Barrier. I was walking around the area this morning and noticed several dozen people with England flags drinking outside a pub at 11ish - and that area is really not heavily populated. Then seeing a bunch of police vans and hearing a really noisy helicopter (low enough to make it actually hard to talk to people).

I asked a copper on the other side of the street what was going on and he said there was going to be a march. "Oh, some sort of EDL thing?" I said. He replied it was a similar group but "more respectful, well let's hope so" and rolled his eyes.

Odd place to march tbh. I didn't hang about waiting for them to stop drinking and leave.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 18, 2013)

lee rigby hijack
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/3187/nazi-grief-tourist-soils-woolwich


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 18, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> lee rigby hijack
> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/article/3187/nazi-grief-tourist-soils-woolwich


  "Ulster Defence Union"


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 18, 2013)

oh dear. shaw is going to be exposed very soon!


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 18, 2013)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...eague_n_4284404.html?1384713618&utm_hp_ref=uk


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 18, 2013)

what do they hope to achieve? 
http://www.london24.com/news/court/..._in_court_as_far_right_plan_protest_1_3010926


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 18, 2013)

krink said:


> part way through this video a couple of young punk kids giving them some stick, pretty funny turns to wtf when edl burka boy turns up




so crass were wrong! punk is NOT dead!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 18, 2013)

krink said:


> part way through this video a couple of young punk kids giving them some stick, pretty funny turns to wtf when edl burka boy turns up




Is it the copper whose back you see at 2:35 the one saying something along the lines of:

"...what's going to happen to Gloucester, mate... [inaudible] ...I'd be on the streets same as you are..."


----------



## albionism (Nov 18, 2013)

Gotta love those punk kids in that vid.


----------



## krink (Nov 19, 2013)

i know the source is dodgy but this is true as i had heard about it already and saw the edl scum saying they had made the calls via faceachebook. what utter scum...

http://searchlightmagazine.com/news/domestic-news/statement-from-the-durham-miners-association


----------



## ddraig (Nov 19, 2013)

too right!
in full for those who don't want to click



> *Leading members of the Durham Miners’ Association have received threatening telephone calls from supporters of the English Defence League.*
> These threats followed a march through Shotton Colliery of 200 supporters of the EDL, mostly from outside the area, on 9 November 2013.
> 
> Many who made up this tribe of fascists and racists had travelled from as far as Edinburgh and Sheffield. Only a handful were from the Shotton area and what seems to have incensed them was the flying of the DMA Blackhall Lodge banner at a counter-demonstration.
> ...


----------



## ChrisD (Nov 21, 2013)

I don't know who's put up this site:
http://exeteredlnews.wordpress.com/
but thanks anyway !

"On Saturday November 16th the EDL held a disastrous national demonstration in Exeter. The EDL could only mobilise around 250 miserable supporters in contrast to the tremendous effort by Exeter Together which saw around 1000-1200 joyous protesters."


----------



## ChrisD (Nov 21, 2013)

ddraig said:


> id on the Welsh flag holder would be appreciated if possible



may crop up in this video... (sorry I fell asleep the speeches are so awful).


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 21, 2013)

apparently a shit-out no show from the fuckbugles!


----------



## krink (Nov 22, 2013)

saint edmund s? who he? did he come before saint edmund t?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 22, 2013)

no idea who it is. after their 2013 ritual humiliation in brighton (where they vowed revenge) they vowed to return in revenge (then didnt). they call too many demos and constantly undermine themselves.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2013)

This is an interesting piece. It argues that social weight of the stigma of racism allied with more info led to robinson leaving.


----------



## toph (Nov 22, 2013)

What's happening with the EDF now? I haven't kept up to date with my anti fascism recently I'm ashamed to say.


----------



## love detective (Nov 22, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> This is an interesting piece. It argues that social weight of the stigma of racism allied with more info led to robinson leaving.



decent article that

On a tangent, the quote from Matthew Goodwin pretty much sums up the more sensible view on here off the EDL and why they really weren't what a lot of anti-fascists desperately wanted them to be




			
				Matthew Goodwin said:
			
		

> “There is an argument that groups like the EDL do enable some politically and financially marginalised groups in society – young, working-class and poorly educated men – to channel their views into the political process,” he said. “Without that outlet, the risk is that their grievances remain underground, and possibly lead them into even more extreme alternatives.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2013)

toph said:


> What's happening with the EDF now? I haven't kept up to date with my anti fascism recently I'm ashamed to say.


ha! ha! That's great.


----------



## Corax (Nov 22, 2013)

toph said:


> What's happening with the EDF now? I haven't kept up to date with my anti fascism recently I'm ashamed to say.


On the off-chance that's a typo, the EVF are having a Christmas Party at the White Hart in Bridgwater, 21st Dec, 8pm, all invited.  Their last notable action was to not have a "Flag demo" in Southampton.  Presumably because he couldn't find anyone to hold the other side of the flag.


----------



## toph (Nov 22, 2013)

Corax said:


> On the off-chance that's a typo, the EVF are having a Christmas Party at the White Hart in Bridgwater, 21st Dec, 8pm, all invited.  Their last notable action was to not have a "Flag demo" in Southampton.  Presumably because he couldn't find anyone to hold the other side of the flag.



It was an auto correct. Should have said EDL. Are they still going since Robinson saw the error of his ways(got scared of the threats).


----------



## Corax (Nov 22, 2013)

toph said:


> It was an auto correct. Should have said EDL. Are they still going since Robinson saw the error of his ways(got scared of the threats).


Appointed a new leader and some sort of council or something.  Have a shufti back through the thread.  Or take a look at EDLNews - their articles/stance are questionable sometimes admittedly, but they certainly do a good job of keeping tabs on what's occurring.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2013)

toph said:


> It was an auto correct. Should have said EDL. Are they still going since Robinson saw the error of his ways(got scared of the threats).


Sure it was.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 22, 2013)

i can barely breathe, my sides are splitting


----------



## Corax (Nov 22, 2013)

Tbh if it was intended as a joke I'd have expected a crack about putting membership prices up or something.


----------



## laptop (Nov 22, 2013)

krink said:


> saint edmund s? who he? did he come before saint edmund t?



And after St Edmund R, yes.

And why did they want to SMDSH the reds? Did they mean CMAШ?

Yrs, alphabtically confused...


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 23, 2013)

tim albit is the new EDL leader. the EDL money - of which there is thousands of £££££s unaccounted for - was apparently 'resting in his account.' the NW infidels suffered a major setback when most of em were jailed for attacking a young antifascist and his dad in liverpool. down south there is the EVF as mentioned above but there is a serious schism between north and south. the NE is strongest in that it can pull numbers from NF, NWI and scotland. they have been most active there. robinson has moved onto greener pastures (££££) and is trying his hand at punditry. he has received some favourable coverage but he is and always will be a spiv, if not a spook. the st emdunds thing in brighton was a total shitout. they call far too many dmeos and simply do not have the numbers. there are a couple of hundred clinging like winnets to the sheeps arse that was the EDL. as usual people either drift away or move further to the right. nothing new there.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 23, 2013)

Why have you posted this?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 23, 2013)

for the benefit of those who cant be arsed reading back over the thread - understandable seeing as its 527 pages long.


----------



## seventh bullet (Nov 23, 2013)

laptop said:


> And after St Edmund R, yes.
> 
> And why did they want to SMDSH the reds? Did they mean CMAШ?
> 
> Yrs, alphabtically confused...



SMDSH THE YAEDS.  And they're using the Russian Cyrillic for E backwards.


----------



## laptop (Nov 23, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> they're using the Russian Cyrillic for E backwards.



I was wondering whether that was a backwards Russian _*З* _(ze) or a right-way-round Ukrainian _*Є*_ (je)... I suspect the answer is "question is meaningless since they certainly don't know".


----------



## seventh bullet (Nov 23, 2013)

In Russian it is represented by what looks like the Ukrainian for 'Yeh' (what you posted above) but backwards.  The other letter E (which looks just like that) in Russian being 'Yeh.'


----------



## krink (Nov 23, 2013)

couldn't make it up....edl man hates muslims so attacks bishop of pontefract at wakefield demo




(i say attacked but not sure if it was just some pushing n shoving, just talk on twitter)


----------



## krink (Nov 23, 2013)

talk about bashing the bishop


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 23, 2013)

krink said:


> talk about bashing the bishop


Well they are wankers


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 23, 2013)

laptop said:


> I was wondering whether that was a backwards Russian _*З* _(ze) or a right-way-round Ukrainian _*Є*_ (je)... I suspect the answer is "question is meaningless since they certainly don't know".


The most important thing is that is shows just how _jolly clever you are_.

Do you do party tricks?

With your "just wondering"s and Treelover's hanging ellipses you could get together as some kind of supper club cabaret act. A winner for sure! Like watching Simon Hoggart and Claire Fox perform close-up magic interspersed sneery bons mots.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 23, 2013)

Saucer of milk for mr Cinzano


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 23, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Saucer of milk for mr Cinzano


What's wrong with a cup, you tight fuck?


----------



## laptop (Nov 23, 2013)

DaveCinzano said:


> Simon Hoggart and Claire Fox



Either Treelover or I is going to have to sue for that. Come to think of it, Mr Hoggart's a very strange little man in the flesh, so we may both sue.

As it happens, this week I'm surrounded by fucking Cyrillic, which is why I was wondering. Not "just wondering". 

[dwyer]
Fool.
[/dwyer]


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 24, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Why have you posted this?


i apologise, i shall request permission from you next time.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 25, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i apologise, i shall request permission from you next time.


Have to say that was quite bitchy from old butchers.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 25, 2013)

manny-p said:
			
		

> Have to say that was quite bitchy from old butchers.



Mal wouldn't denounce edlnews so looks like he's off the christmas card list.


----------



## manny-p (Nov 25, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Mal wouldn't denounce edlnews so looks like he's off the christmas card list.


Both are off mine now.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 26, 2013)

eek!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...es-and-a-neo-Nazi-plot-to-kill-Abu-Hamza.html
and
'The plan was to impersonate the British Nazi group Combat 18 and then allow them to take the blame.' 
by stealthily using ineptitude, infighting and fuckbuglery!


----------



## chilango (Nov 26, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> eek!
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...es-and-a-neo-Nazi-plot-to-kill-Abu-Hamza.html
> and
> 'The plan was to impersonate the British Nazi group Combat 18 and then allow them to take the blame.'
> by stealthily using ineptitude, infighting and fuckbuglery!



Why this? Why now?

Searchlight (well HNH in case) planting stories in the Telegraph etc. is usually something orchestrated from above, so what's the agenda here?


----------



## framed (Nov 26, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> eek!
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...es-and-a-neo-Nazi-plot-to-kill-Abu-Hamza.html
> and
> 'The plan was to impersonate the British Nazi group Combat 18 and then allow them to take the blame.'
> by stealthily using ineptitude, infighting and fuckbuglery!




I prefer the story about the 3 bears and the wee girl that stole their porridge...


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 26, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> eek!
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...es-and-a-neo-Nazi-plot-to-kill-Abu-Hamza.html
> and
> 'The plan was to impersonate the British Nazi group Combat 18 and then allow them to take the blame.'
> by stealthily using ineptitude, infighting and fuckbuglery!



What's HNHs sources for this?


----------



## framed (Nov 26, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> What's HNHs sources for this?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 26, 2013)

On the Twatter it says Tommy Paul Stephen Harris Yaxley Lennon Robinson has pleaded guilty to mortgage fraud today.


----------



## framed (Nov 26, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> On the Twatter it says Tommy Paul Stephen Harris Yaxley Lennon Robinson has pleaded guilty to mortgage fraud today.



Which one of him did it?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 26, 2013)

i thought the deal was fraud charges dropped in exchange for his '
conversion?'


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 26, 2013)

So what happens next?


----------



## FNG (Nov 26, 2013)

With the collapse of the EDL
HmH and the Quilliam Foundation have a tout-off to see who goes through to the next round?


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 26, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> i thought the deal was fraud charges dropped in exchange for his '
> conversion?'



https://twitter.com/CatrinNye/status/405367619202478080


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 26, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25110639


----------



## toph (Nov 26, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> So what happens next?


 
You die hopefully.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 26, 2013)

who the fuck is this^?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 26, 2013)

Just ignore the try-hard. Because he is, trying hard.


----------



## toph (Nov 26, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Because he is, trying hard.


 
Well it's working, hook, line and sinker. Am I a he by the way?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 27, 2013)

Just a bump......... to get rid of the shemale TOPH...... s(he) seems a bit confused.......

Is this a photoshop or what?





Bishop Tony Robinson moments before EDL supporter launched at microphone (Sally Kincaid)
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/5...efence-league-edl-wakefield-bishop-attack.htm

Is he really Bishop T Robinson ......... His Holiness S Yaxley.........


----------



## belboid (Nov 28, 2013)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Bishop Tony Robinson moments before EDL supporter launched at microphone *(Sally Kincaid)*


By Sally Kincaid, eh? The hardcore Delta supporting SWPer, I'm surprised she thought the police were competent to deal with such an assault


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 28, 2013)

toph said:
			
		

> Well it's working, hook, line and sinker. Am I a he by the way?



I know you're banned but when you come back with your next account I'd like you to correct your mixed metaphor.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 1, 2013)

hartlepool dead horse flogging. 
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/new...ch-is-met-by-protests-in-hartlepool-1-6287484


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2013)

J Ed said:


> Mo Ansar is a good example of what I think we should call the chameleon commentariat



A what?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 2, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> I know you're banned but when you come back with your next account I'd like you to correct your mixed metaphor.



this is going off topic a bit, but I've never shared this with anyone much before,mainly because it's of limited interest i suspect ( and also cos I 'm responsible for introing a pretty strict ' one sentence per dream ' recounting rule in our household to reign in potential dream-bores at breakfast etc)  - anyway, you hear of people kinda inventing/ creating shit in their dreams occasionally - the closest I ever came was about 5 years ago, waking up after dreaming that i'd invented a new Viz character ( despite not having thought about Viz for about a decade before that) , which they wanted to use (in the dream) , called Micks' Metaphors , ie : Mick mixes up yet another metaphor, and so someone smacks him around the head with a plank / skip falls on his head etc.

At the time I actually thought this was pretty good and I should contact them with the idea, but i soon got over it. 

However I have kept an interest in 'mixed metaphors' ever since, and I'm wondering if "it's working, hook, line and sinker" actually mixes two or more ( which must be the assumed criteria for a 'mixed metaphor'. ), as it seems to just miss out part of one , ie : 'the swallowing of the hook' part of 'hook, line'  etc ' , rather than run another one into it, as 'working' _could _be part of another MM ( eg : 'like a dog' ' ) , but isnt explicitly so here . 

It's a trickier area than one might first assume though, so am open to argument.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2013)

cantsin said:


> this is going off topic a bit, but I've never shared this with anyone much before,mainly because it's of limited interest i suspect ( and also cos I 'm responsible for introing a pretty strict ' one sentence per dream ' recounting rule in our household to reign in potential dream-bores at breakfast etc)  - anyway, you hear of people kinda inventing/ creating shit in their dreams occasionally - the closest I ever came was about 5 years ago, waking up after dreaming that i'd invented a new Viz character ( despite not having thought about Viz for about a decade before that) , which they wanted to use (in the dream) , called Micks' Metaphors , ie : Mick mixes up yet another metaphor, and so someone smacks him around the head with a plank / skip falls on his head etc.
> 
> At the time I actually thought this was pretty good and I should contact them with the idea, but i soon got over it.
> 
> ...



I actually considered that when I typed it out.  yeah, it's not proper mixed metaphors, he just messed up the initial verb. So I'll gladly concede that.

Mick's Metaphors is great!  totally in keeping with viz's pun-ish character names. Perhaps a little too high brow though? 

E2a just hyphenated 'punish'. Stumped for the right word there ironically for the situation.


----------



## laptop (Dec 2, 2013)

cantsin said:


> 'one sentence per dream ' recounting rule



I like it; but are semicolons permitted - if they are, a grammatically-skilled dream bore could go on and on (until the goose was cooked)?


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 4, 2013)

utter losers. coke, drunks, knuckle dusters and more criminal records to boast of in the pub. 
http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co....ts-EDL-march/story-20253774-detail/story.html


----------



## SpineyNorman (Dec 4, 2013)

losers


----------



## ddraig (Dec 4, 2013)

what about this one
Serving soldier arrested
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25211945


> A serving UK soldier has been arrested under the Terrorism Act after a "suspicious device" was found at a house in Salford.
> 
> The device, understood to be a nail bomb, was discovered last week.
> 
> ...


----------



## cesare (Dec 4, 2013)

It's not just the literature that's potentially inflammatory.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 4, 2013)

ddraig said:


> what about this one
> Serving soldier arrested
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25211945



It seems the non-story of Nigella not hoovering coke is more newsworthy than this according to the BBC.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 4, 2013)

it'd be all kinds of BREAKING NEWS if it was a muslim no doubt


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Dec 4, 2013)

SpineyNorman said:


> losers


Beyond losers, surely

Are they Marks and Spencer Losers


----------



## krink (Dec 4, 2013)

regular readers will be interested to know there is a video of snowy - the lama-harming police informant - and his gang hassling some younger comrades after hartlepool. don't ahve the link atm


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Dec 4, 2013)

DrRingDing said:


> It seems the non-story of Nigella not hoovering coke is more newsworthy than this according to the BBC.


Indeed posh fools bickering seems to overshadow most stuff..... like school repair money being used to fund kitchen building....etc

but:
at 3pm today
http://www.channel4.com/news/soldier-terrorism-british-nail-bomb-police-germany-salford
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-Terrorism-Act-nail-bomb-house-Salford.html (sorry, daily Heil)
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-12-04/british-soldier-arrested-in-salford-under-terrorism-act/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...l-bomb-found-at-house-in-salford-8981890.html
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/04/soldier-arrested-discovery-nail-bomb-salford
And apart from that its newswire regurgitation.


----------



## laptop (Dec 4, 2013)

ddraig said:


> what about this one
> Serving soldier arrested
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25211945






			
				BBC said:
			
		

> device, understood to be a nail bomb, was discovered...
> 
> he has been questioned about suspected links to right-wing extremism....
> 
> ...following a tip-off about images of abuse on a computer.



FULL HOUSE!


----------



## Nigel (Dec 4, 2013)

EDL TRYING NEW TACTICS IN POMPEY!
http://portsmouthantifascists.wordpress.com/2013/12/04/edl-flashmob-local-mosque/


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 5, 2013)

Crivvens! Malatesta's Back!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/notes-from-the-shopfloor-1/


----------



## barney_pig (Dec 6, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> Crivvens! Malatesta's Back!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/notes-from-the-shopfloor-1/


completely off topic,content free post.
if you want to talk about casualisation eiyher start a new thresd or join an exising one.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 6, 2013)

.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 6, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> completely off topic,content free post.
> if you want to talk about casualisation eiyher start a new thresd or join an exising one.



actually, thats a good idea.


----------



## Corax (Dec 6, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Mick's Metaphors is great!  totally in keeping with viz's pun-ish character names. Perhaps a little too high brow though?


I don't think so actually.  A lot of Viz has always been much 'smarter' than it pretends to be iyswim.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 6, 2013)

Corax said:
			
		

> I don't think so actually.  A lot of Viz has always been much 'smarter' than it pretends to be iyswim.



What, like Sid the Sexist and Fat Slags?


----------



## Corax (Dec 6, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> What, like Sid the Sexist and Fat Slags?


I mean the publication as a whole, and the contents within that context.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 6, 2013)

Corax said:


> I mean the publication as a whole, and the contents within that context.



Well I read it mainly at a young age so I may have misjudged it being anything but puerile pub fodder. Have you any examples you can point me to?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 7, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well I read it mainly at a young age so I may have misjudged it being anything but puerile pub fodder. Have you any examples you can point me to?


There are several classics - this perhaps being the best.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 7, 2013)

rickrolled by a mod. ffs.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Dec 7, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> Well I read it mainly at a young age so I may have misjudged it being anything but puerile pub fodder. Have you any examples you can point me to?


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 7, 2013)

it is the form of viz more than the content that was satirical. anyone who grew up with those stupud comics (the broons and oor wullie aside) immediately recognised that it was a piss take. biffa bacon was bully beef and chips updated. postamn plod, the bottom inspectors, paul whicker tall vicar, roger mellie ( not dreadful tv version!). all classic! also viz started off as a photocopied fanzine sold at gigs (RIP the gestetner!).


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 7, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> There are several classics - this perhaps being the best.



Yeah but I meant in the period before Colonel Abrahams was editing it.


----------



## manny-p (Dec 7, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> Crivvens! Malatesta's Back!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/notes-from-the-shopfloor-1/



What the fuck is this mate? Your class enemy mates in EDL news produce better than that.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 8, 2013)

it is the beginning of a series of articles on casual labour, the politics of unemployment, economics etc but had such negative feedback its time to redo in a more 'serious' manner.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Dec 8, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> it is the beginning of a series of articles on casual labour, the politics of unemployment, economics etc but had such negative feedback its time to redo in a more 'serious' manner.


Or alternatively there is so little happening on the E e edl front that even I have resorted to rude kid!


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 11, 2013)

so, what happened to tommy robinson then? has he backed out discretely?


----------



## manny-p (Dec 11, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> it is the beginning of a series of articles on casual labour, the politics of unemployment, economics etc but had such negative feedback its time to redo in a more 'serious' manner.


Sorry its good mate and a very worthy series of articles. I was just reading it from an antifash pov and didny make sense of it. x


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 11, 2013)

ive revised the whole thing now and am putting it up later along with an exclusive interview with charlie sergeant and his thought on EDL. just trying to rouse masel' tae action.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 11, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> ive revised the whole thing now and am putting it up later along with an exclusive interview with charlie sergeant and his thought on EDL. just trying to rouse masel' tae action.


An interview by you with sergant?
edit: sorry, fell for it


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 11, 2013)

no its true. i will post it up in a bit. feeling a bit rough right now.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 17, 2013)

merry xmas EDL! enjoy your halal turkey twizzlers next week.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...-violence-seven-6411479#.Uq9rv8n1sPA.facebook
more to be sentenced this week. little to do with politics, more to do with drunken hooliganism.


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## Fingers (Dec 17, 2013)

patriots getting banged up left right and centre. some proper harsh sentenced. 32 in total, still around 20 to be sentenced  http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...32-edl-members-sentenced-for-walsall-violence


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## malatesta32 (Dec 17, 2013)

wow, heavy manners or what! i think plod etc are trying to finish em off by the end of a year where they have mishandled things, like Walsall, portalooville, march for england, etc, and spent millions on a spent force.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Dec 18, 2013)

EDL claim they're doing a demo in Sheffield in May. How many do people reckon they'll get to it? Some antifash obsessives here claiming we need to start mobilising now to smash them - personally I can't see them being capable of organising much around then.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 18, 2013)

they are over. they call these demos which get smaller and smaller. there is so much infighting its unbelievable. however, we must remember AFA 'if you cannot smash them when they are weak, how can you smash them when they are strong?'


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 18, 2013)

Not sure that there is any evidence to say that the EDL have been smashed by physical force anti fascism either when they have been weak or strong Mal.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 18, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Not sure that there is any evidence to say that the EDL have been smashed by physical force anti fascism either when they have been weak or strong Mal.



Been massively demoralized by Antifa on a few occassions, Walthamstow springs to mind. Massively humiliated by plod as well.

So far this week they have clocked up nearly 35 years prison between them and there is still two days to go


----------



## krink (Dec 18, 2013)

Am i the only one who thinks these sentences are way ott? it probably means anti-fascists (especially militant ones) can expect the same


----------



## Nice one (Dec 18, 2013)

krink said:


> Am i the only one who thinks these sentences are way ott? it probably means anti-fascists (especially militant ones) can expect the same



the key is they all pleaded guilty which is a big no-no. Violent disorder 18 months- 2yrs isn't that harsh


----------



## tony.c (Dec 19, 2013)

krink said:


> Am i the only one who thinks these sentences are way ott? it probably means anti-fascists (especially militant ones) can expect the same


Seems that the judiciary are passing deterrent sentences like they did after the Mark Duggan riots.
And yes they might well do the same with anti-fascist militants.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 19, 2013)

Nice one said:


> the key is they all pleaded guilty which is a big no-no.



Really?

If you plead Not Guilty and get convicted, you will get a much harsher sentence. Maybe the Defence had looked at the videos the Plod had. The general idea is one pleads Guilty in order to get a _lighter_ sentence.

These sentences - and others like them - are _way_ OTT IMO.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2013)

brighton x 2 bristol and walthamstow? but this year in brighton was one of the rare full on encounters with EDL where they got proper slapped and run around.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2013)

also one reason why they pleaded guilty is that there was so much footage of the EDL taken and posted by themselves that they could hardly deny it. i mean, if you are rioting, dont put footage of your mates doing it on youtube.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2013)

krink said:


> Am i the only one who thinks these sentences are way ott? it probably means anti-fascists (especially militant ones) can expect the same



of course they will.this is something AFA warned about with 'state antifascism' being used against antifascists. also a lot of these eejits have previous.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2013)

oh dear. more gone down!
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/teen-avoids-jail-over-walsall-6422650


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 19, 2013)

Fingers said:


> Been massively demoralized by Antifa on a few occassions, Walthamstow springs to mind. Massively humiliated by plod as well.
> 
> So far this week they have clocked up nearly 35 years prison between them and there is still two days to go



Well i agree with your second sentence as I have for the past two years argued that the police have been at the forefront of anti fascism


----------



## Nice one (Dec 19, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Really?
> 
> If you plead Not Guilty and get convicted, you will get a much harsher sentence. Maybe the Defence had looked at the videos the Plod had. *The general idea is one pleads Guilty in order to get a lighter sentence.*
> 
> These sentences - and others like them - are _way_ OTT IMO.



that's the myth, and in certain crimes often the case but with public order arrests, especially those involving joint enterprise like violent disorder then you're doing yourself no favours by pleading guilty because you are essentially admitting to the whole thing. If there was 'large scale disorder', you'll get blamed for everything regardless of your contribution. Plus only the police's version of events get presented to the court as a true picture of what happened*.*


----------



## framed (Dec 19, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Really?
> 
> If you plead Not Guilty and get convicted, you will get a much harsher sentence. Maybe the Defence had looked at the videos the Plod had. The general idea is one pleads Guilty in order to get a _lighter_ sentence.



Well, thank fcuk that _'plead guilty for a lighter sentence'_ tactic didn't quite pay off for Ian Watkins and his co-defendants...



LiamO said:


> These sentences - and others like them - are _way_ OTT IMO.



Part of the reason (historically) as to why jails are so overcrowded relates to 'OTT' sentences for relatively minor offences, but sentences for acts of violence are pretty consistent, regardless of guilty or not guilty pleas. For example, go back to 1990 and the three AFA lads who got 11 years between them for the attack on Nicci Crane for evidence of consistency in sentencing in cases of violent assault, even a violent assault that lasted for only seconds and in which the injuries sustained were minor. They plead Not Guilty and were sentenced harshly imho, but it appears now to be the norm for these type of cases to be dealt with consistently in terms of sentencing and regardless of the plea.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 19, 2013)

Nice one said:


> that's the myth, and in certain crimes often the case but with public order arrests, especially those involving joint enterprise like violent disorder then you're doing yourself no favours by pleading guilty because you are essentially admitting to the whole thing. If there was 'large scale disorder', you'll get blamed for everything regardless of your contribution. Plus only the police's version of events get presented to the court as a true picture of what happened*.*



Fortunately, british Fascism has a long history of 'activists' being dumb-as-fuck recidivists who default to  'Orwhite guv, it's a fair cop' on capture (S'pose cos they assume all their mates will grass them up anyway). Plus all the other 'mates' who will no doubt have filmed their moment of glory and posted it on facebook.

But, imo, these sentences _are_ political. What did they do apart from the usual fuck-arserey they get up to most weeks at football - that usually results in no more than a push back the crowd or even an occasional slap? Was there a mass brawl/riot I didn't hear about?


I understand the sentences those Scousers got for attacking an anti-fascist musician and his son - but that was mostly for a) the malice aforethought, the clear, evidenced element of conspiracy and intent and b) their stupidity in doing it in a heavily CCTV'd City Centre where their entire journey was filmed.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 19, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Well i agree with your second sentence as I have for the past two years argued that the police have been at the forefront of anti fascism



Many's a true word is spoken in jest


----------



## jakethesnake (Dec 19, 2013)

The useful idiots have ceased to be useful (for what ever reason) so now they're being put back in their box.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 19, 2013)

I also believe there is also widespread disdain/antipathy amongst many ordinary plod towards the edl/infidels. Don't forget these are the orrible bullies who tormented the average plod at school


----------



## cantsin (Dec 19, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Fortunately, british Fascism has a long history of 'activists' being dumb-as-fuck recidivists who default to  'Orwhite guv, it's a fair cop' on capture (S'pose cos they assume all their mates will grass them up anyway). Plus all the other 'mates' who will no doubt have filmed their moment of glory and posted it on facebook.
> 
> But, imo, these sentences _are_ political. *What did they do apart from the usual fuck-arserey they get up to most weeks at football - that usually results in no more than a push back the crowd or even an occasional slap? Was there a mass brawl/riot I didn't hear about*?
> 
> ...



not the case at all, on some of the football sites today they're expressly pointing out that this an extension of how w/c lads are now treated at football , ie : getting sent down for 18 months for bouncing up and down and mouthing off within the vicinity of a football ground ( and obviously in the company of an identifiable firm etc )  , "the occasional slap "from the OB era is long, long gone.

but agree, it's political policing on both the football and EDL related fronts


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 20, 2013)

whilst having absolutely no sympathy for these wankers, the sentencing is political, way heavy and clearly a warning. the EDL have lost any 'political direction' now and it really is down to a few 100 having regular argy-bargy (is that a latin american onion snack?) with plod as antifascists rarely get near em.
http://www.itv.com/news/central/201...s-sentenced-to-60-years-for-walsall-disorder/
and mugshots to show what villains they really are:
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/32-men-sentenced-more-55-6433214
name and shame and publish photos.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 20, 2013)

bit gloating but it shows them up as a somewhat amateur criminal gang. 
http://edlcriminals.com/2013/12/19/lonely-this-christmas/


----------



## framed (Dec 20, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> bit gloating but it shows them up as a somewhat amateur criminal gang.
> http://edlcriminals.com/2013/12/19/lonely-this-christmas/



That's quite a list there, I counted about 60... If there was any solidarity (or brains) among them they could build a prisoner support network out of that lot.


----------



## Limerick Red (Dec 21, 2013)

http://londonantifascists.wordpress...rs-sent-down-no-tears-but-no-gloating-either/

*EDL SUPPORTERS SENT DOWN: NO TEARS, BUT NO GLOATING EITHER*

Anti-fascists and the left should derive no pleasure from the prison sentences handed out to English Defence League supporters for disorder at a demonstration in Walsall in 2012.

We have consistently organised to confront the EDL, and while we won’t be organising prisoner solidarity for these individuals, we cannot applaud or welcome the role of the state in fighting fascism and far-right nationalism.

A total of 60 years jail time was handed down to around 30 EDL supporters. LAF has stated since our inception that we are completely opposed to state bans on far-right organisation and activity, and to heavy-handed policing of demonstrations. The same state that locks up asylum seekers, that looks to cut benefits to the most marginalised people in society in the name of profit, and which routinely harasses and even kills people in black working-class communities cannot be relied on to deal with the far right.

As anti-fascists and working-class activists, we have also felt the strong arm of the state in recent years – from pre-emptive and political arrests of activists around the Royal Wedding in 2011 and the Critical Mass protests at the London Olympics, the mass arrests at the Whitehall and Tower Hamlets anti-fascist demonstrations and subsequent draconian bail conditions, to the police violence against student demonstrators at the University of London. We also remember the political arrest and imprisonment of comrades from the Antifa group.

Political policing, pre-emptive and mass arrest, and draconian bail conditions are increasingly becoming part of the “normal” experience of many activists. For black and Asian working-class communities, police harassment and brutality has been part of the reality of day-to-day life for decades. The state behind all of this cannot be an ally in the fight against racism and fascism.

We should also think about why the 30 jailed EDLers ended up on the side of the racists in the first place, and whether being chewed up and spat out by the prison system is likely to dissuade them from their beliefs, or merely galvanise their sense of injustice.

The English Defence League feeds off feelings of powerlessness and disenfranchisement amongst (mainly) young, white working-class men. They are right to feel disenfranchised, frozen-out, and brutalised by the current system.

All over the country, working-class people of all ethnic backgrounds are finding it harder to make ends meet. The EDL and other far-right nationalists give white working-class people an easy scapegoat — Muslims, or “immigrants”. Locking up EDL supporters, or banning their marches, will not make the social issues they exploit go away. The working-class movement must provide alternative, anti-capitalist, anti-racist political answers to undercut the poison of the EDL.

Distinctions of “race”, ethnic identity, or immigration status are exploited by both the far-right and the state to keep us divided. For us, the key dividing line is the one that divides the vast majority of us — black, white, British-born, and migrant — from our bosses and their state: class. We will deal with the EDL by confronting them wherever they organise, and by helping develop working-class political alternatives, in our workplaces and communities, that can cut the roots of racism. A class-based anti-fascism must understand the state as part of the problem, not the solution.

We shouldn’t shed tears for imprisoned fascists, but the same draconian laws and police powers used to imprison EDLers could be turned on anti-fascists and the far-left just as easily.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 21, 2013)

http://tommyrobinson.co.uk/


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 21, 2013)

Malatesta's 2013: Read All Abaht It! 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/12/21/2013-highlights-lowlifes/


----------



## mr steev (Dec 21, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/32-men-sentenced-more-55-6433214
> name and shame and publish photos.



I'm sad to say I know one of them. I've not seen him for over a decade but would've called him a mate 20 years ago. He used to be quite sound. There are a few surprised and disappointed people on facebook


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 21, 2013)

there is still an argument to made that EDL was a 'terrace fashion'' or excuse for hooliganism for many - though not to underestimate other movers among them.


----------



## mr steev (Dec 21, 2013)

He was worlds away from the football/casual scene when I knew him. I'm not that surprised to hear of him having a ruck with the police but not for this cause. I'm not sure if it goes to show that you can never really know someone, or how that someone can change so much.
The naming and shaming is going to have a big impact on him


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 21, 2013)

yeah they put out mugshots of them all as well and with the jail and tommy neutralised, it shows the state have had enough and the gigs up!


----------



## Nice one (Dec 21, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Fortunately, british Fascism has a long history of 'activists' being dumb-as-fuck recidivists who default to  'Orwhite guv, it's a fair cop' on capture (S'pose cos they assume all their mates will grass them up anyway). Plus all the other 'mates' who will no doubt have filmed their moment of glory and posted it on facebook.
> 
> But, imo, these sentences _are_ political. What did they do apart from the usual fuck-arserey they get up to most weeks at football - that usually results in no more than a push back the crowd or even an occasional slap? Was there a mass brawl/riot I didn't hear about?
> 
> ...



these kind of sentences are always political. But in terms of of what was presented to the court as evidence just listen to the language: 

Robin Allen, senior crown prosecutor from West Midlands Crown Prosecution Service, described the scenes as an ‘orgy of violence’. He said: “Fuelled by hate and alcohol, a section of the group, instigated by key figures within the demonstration, began to direct their anger towards the counter demonstration.

“As police then sought to contain the group, supporters of the EDL began throwing missiles.

“Police officers were then exposed to some of the worst violence that they have been subjected to in a public order situation.

“Concrete slabs, bricks and a table leg were among some of the various items which were used as weapons and thrown at the officers,” Mr Allen added.

“Those engaged in such reprehensible conduct paid little regard to what they were doing or who they were attacking, as during their orgy of violence, a number of their own EDL stewards, as well as police officers, were seriously injured".


----------



## LiamO (Dec 21, 2013)

Hi, Nice One



Nice one said:


> “Police officers were then exposed to some of the worst violence that they have been subjected to in a public order situation".



Really? What a lot of old bollocks, frankly. Unless the plod were all straight out of the academy and had never seen serious public disorder?


----------



## framed (Dec 21, 2013)

Limerick Red said:


> http://londonantifascists.wordpress...rs-sent-down-no-tears-but-no-gloating-either/
> 
> *EDL SUPPORTERS SENT DOWN: NO TEARS, BUT NO GLOATING EITHER*
> 
> ...



Nailed it. That's an excellent piece.


----------



## manny-p (Dec 22, 2013)

Looking at some of the sentences and I see a few got handed -CRASBO'S. Anyone know what they are?


----------



## jakethesnake (Dec 22, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Looking at some of the sentences and I see a few got handed -CRASBO'S. Anyone know what they are?


Criminal Anti-Social Behaviour Order... just like an ASBO but resulting from a criminal conviction rather than say, repeated complaints from the public.


----------



## treelover (Dec 22, 2013)

> We will deal with the EDL by confronting them wherever they organise, *and by helping develop working-class political alternatives, in our workplaces and communities*



When does that start then?


----------



## Limerick Red (Dec 22, 2013)

treelover said:


> When does that start then?


tomorrow fortnight


----------



## krink (Dec 22, 2013)

crasbo - sounds like an early Grange Hill character..

"oi! Tucker, Crasbo sez he's gonna tell Mr Bronson on you"


----------



## LiamO (Dec 22, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> Criminal Anti-Social Behaviour Order... just like an ASBO but resulting from a criminal conviction rather than say, repeated complaints from the public.



What does that mean in practice? That they are banned from attending demo's? If so, this is pure, unadulterated bullshit and we can look forward to seeing it used on every type of political activist.

That's what they do. Bring this in for people that most people don't like/are embarrassed by... and then once it becomes the norm they wheel it out on everybody... on the basis that 'the law must be seen to be equally applied. Sicken my hole... and anybody of the Left who celebrates or scoffs at this is a short-sighted fool.

It was the same in the 80's when Football was used as the testing ground for a lot of the tactics they then used on the Miners and others.


----------



## jakethesnake (Dec 22, 2013)

What it means in practise is that, like ASBOs, they are able to imprison someone for up to 5 years for somthing that would normally attract a much lesser (or even no) sentence. You are right LiamO, this is a shitty development that will be used against leftists and other militants.


----------



## krink (Dec 22, 2013)

> DC Andy Haworth from the National Domestic Extremism Unit, a national police unit which worked alongside British Transport Police and Lincolnshire Police to bring the prosecution, said: “It is only the second time a Crasbo of this nature has been granted to individuals participating in Defence League demonstrations, and it is widely anticipated other police forces will follow suit and apply for Crasbos to stop violent individuals from subverting otherwise legitimate, lawful, protests. While the Defence Leagues are entitled to protest, violence has been a persistent feature of their demonstrations, and on this occasion the offence was committed while travelling from a demonstration. We are working to support all police forces with Crasbo applications against any individual who persistently commits criminal acts at (or travelling to and from) Defence League demonstrations, regardless of whether they profess to support the Defence League or oppose it, in order to ensure future demonstrations are peaceful and lawful.”



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Overton


----------



## LiamO (Dec 22, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> You are right LiamO, this is a shitty development that will be used against leftists and other militants.



I remember being laughed at by many Celtic fans a couple of years ago when all that ban 'The Famine Song' and ban 'The Billy Boys' stuff started. It was plain to see where it might lead once it had been set in motion... and that is being played out as we type.


----------



## framed (Dec 22, 2013)

LiamO said:


> I remember being laughed at by many Celtic fans a couple of years ago when all that ban 'The Famine Song' and ban 'The Billy Boys' stuff started. It was plain to see where it might lead once it had been set in motion... and that is being played out as we type.



To be fair Liam, it's a position that AFA held with regard to the state and which TAL was predicting would be an inevitable outcome of the attacks on the political culture of Celtic fans, which have been ongoing for much longer than the existence of the Green Brigade. It's simply moved from the covert to the overt now.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 22, 2013)

oh you lads and your soccer teams!!!


----------



## framed (Dec 22, 2013)

malatesta32 said:


> oh you lads and your soccer teams!!!



It's all segments of the same satsuma, he said festively...


----------



## manny-p (Dec 22, 2013)

jakethesnake said:


> Criminal Anti-Social Behaviour Order... just like an ASBO but resulting from a criminal conviction rather than say, repeated complaints from the public.


Cheers Jake.x


----------



## manny-p (Dec 22, 2013)

LiamO said:


> What does that mean in practice? That they are banned from attending demo's? If so, this is pure, unadulterated bullshit and we can look forward to seeing it used on every type of political activist.
> 
> That's what they do. Bring this in for people that most people don't like/are embarrassed by... and then once it becomes the norm they wheel it out on everybody... on the basis that 'the law must be seen to be equally applied. Sicken my hole... and anybody of the Left who celebrates or scoffs at this is a short-sighted fool.
> 
> It was the same in the 80's when Football was used as the testing ground for a lot of the tactics they then used on the Miners and others.


Things get yet more grim....


----------



## tony.c (Dec 22, 2013)

Another consequence of the heavy sentencing based on video evidence is that anyone who was on that or any other edl march and behaved in a way that might also lead to arrest and sentencing is going to have to consider whether they should attend any future activities.
They might not have been arrested yet because OB haven't identified them, but they might well be looking for them on future marches.


----------



## Corax (Dec 23, 2013)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://tommyrobinson.co.uk/


What a bizarrely content-free website he's built for himself.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Dec 24, 2013)

To all the genuine antifacist posters here, I wish you a happy and relaxing winterval, I hope it all goes well wherever you are.

To all the facists - crawl back under the rock you came from and stay there until you mend your ways.


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 27, 2013)

well said that man! ^


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 28, 2013)

huff puffing: 
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/21/edl-finished-in-2013-tommy-robinson_n_4316813.html


----------



## Nice one (Dec 30, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Hi, Nice One
> 
> 
> 
> Really? What a lot of old bollocks, frankly. Unless the plod were all straight out of the academy and had never seen serious public disorder?



they are told to say that. Remember one copper said of a particular uneventful anti-capitalist demo it was the worst example of crowd violence he had witnessed in his 25 years as a public order officer. Asked what other public order demos he has been involved in he puffs out his chest and says the poll tax riot. We all burst out laughing.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 30, 2013)

Nice one said:


> they are told to say that. Remember one copper said of a particular uneventful anti-capitalist demo it was the worst example of crowd violence he had witnessed in his 25 years as a public order officer. Asked what other public order demos he has been involved in he puffs out his chest and says the poll tax riot. We all burst out laughing.



I know. That was kinda the point I was making.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 6, 2014)

given how well they did last time this should do disastrously. 
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/EDL-pl...mosque-plans/story-20404865-detail/story.html
too many demos called and not enough supporters.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2014)

Attention Bristoleros! 
https://www.facebook.com/UAFpage


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 7, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> Attention Bristoleros!
> https://www.facebook.com/UAFpage



Around 30 EDL, maybe 80 or so antis. Nothing much happened bar the shouting then both sides drifted off.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 8, 2014)

this from newspaper
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/EDL-an...lash-Bristol/story-20410437-detail/story.html
and EDL surrender to sleaford
http://www.sleafordstandard.co.uk/news/local/edl-protest-in-town-is-cancelled-1-5788890


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 8, 2014)

BlackArab said:


> Around 30 EDL, maybe 80 or so antis. Nothing much happened bar the shouting then both sides drifted off.


I don't think they will have got anything at all out of that. There's simply no boost for them from 25-30 people from wiltshire and other places coming to bristol for a big day out then getting outnumbered by antis on their way home from work, effectively blocking them from the town centre and forcing them to retreat singing anti-bristol songs as they go. Total shambles held in full pubic view during rush hour. Noticeable for lack of UAF beyond banner, mostly trade unionists and the informal coalition of anarchist/non party types that's developed over the last few years, and people on their way home who just don't like the edl.


----------



## Sweet FA (Jan 8, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Total shambles held in full pubic view


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 8, 2014)

Shite!!


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 8, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I don't think they will have got anything at all out of that. There's simply no boost for them from 25-30 people from wiltshire and other places coming to bristol for a big day out then getting outnumbered by antis on their way home from work, effectively blocking them from the town centre and forcing them to retreat singing anti-bristol songs as they go. Total shambles held in full pubic view during rush hour. Noticeable for lack of UAF beyond banner, mostly trade unionists and the informal coalition of anarchist/non party types that's developed over the last few years, and people on their way home who just don't like the edl.



That pretty much sums it up. Didn't numbers-wise that many of the Bristol lot are still on bail or recently got done for kicking off with each other at the recent Rovers/City game. The looks on their faces when confronted by the black skinhead was priceless.


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 8, 2014)

The singing of 'where's your Tommy gone' definitely hit a nerve too.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 9, 2014)

BlackArab said:


> That pretty much sums it up. Didn't numbers-wise that many of the Bristol lot are still on bail or recently got done for kicking off with each other at the recent Rovers/City game. The looks on their faces when confronted by the black skinhead was priceless.


There was an odd point, where about two of their lot tried something about rovers and the long bar and it became clear in seconds there were far more gasheads over our way then there. That's no way to get revenge - and they even went back to a city pub!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2014)

what on earth are you boys talking about? rovers? gasheads? are you mechanics?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2014)

BlackArab said:


> The looks on their faces when confronted by the black skinhead was priceless.


any pix?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Jan 9, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> what on earth are you boys talking about? rovers? gasheads? are you mechanics?



I think it's a football reference, mal...and we know you love your football, eh?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2014)

oh, soccer teams is it? silly me!


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 9, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> any pix?


On your Bristol Post link Mal 3rd pic in sequence


----------



## ddraig (Jan 9, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> oh, soccer teams is it? silly me!


Bristol Rovers, Bristol City


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2014)

soccer, eh? its just not cricket!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 9, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> soccer, eh? its just not cricket!









BOOM! BOOM!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2014)

'I Thank Yew!'


----------



## BlackArab (Jan 9, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> what on earth are you boys talking about? rovers? gasheads? are you mechanics?



_The club's official nickname is The Pirates, reflecting the maritime history of Bristol. The local nickname of the club is The Gas, from the gasworks next to their former home Eastville Stadium, which started as a derogatory term used by Bristol City fans but was affectionately adopted by the team._ 

Also:

_The club was founded in 1883 as *Black Arabs F.C.*, and were also known as *Eastville Rovers* and *Bristol Eastville Rovers* before finally changing its name to *Bristol Rovers* in 1899. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Rovers_F.C. _


----------



## JTG (Jan 9, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> what on earth are you boys talking about? rovers? gasheads? are you mechanics?


A previous EDL thing in Bristol ended with a set to between some Bristol Rovers supporting EDL types and anti-fash people outside the Long Bar on Old Market. I think butchers is saying that there was some attempt at harking back to this occasion but the Rovers supporters on the anti-fash side quickly pointed out to them that Rovers are by no means exclusively EDL.

Or summat, sure he'll set me straight if I'm wrong


----------



## Limerick Red (Jan 10, 2014)

JTG said:


> A previous EDL thing in Bristol ended with a set to between some Bristol Rovers supporting EDL types and anti-fash people outside the Long Bar on Old Market. I think butchers is saying that there was some attempt at harking back to this occasion but the Rovers supporters on the anti-fash side quickly pointed out to them that Rovers are by no means exclusively EDL.
> 
> Or summat, sure he'll set me straight if I'm wrong


There was no rovers on the antifa side, rovers ran shut the pub door behind them and left a few city lads outside to face a kickin.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 10, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> There was no rovers on the antifa side, rovers ran shut the pub door behind them and left a few city lads outside to face a kickin.


There certainly were rovers on both sides, and it wasn't city who got locked out.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jan 10, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> it wasn't city who got locked out.


Must of got mixed up here, but there were certainly hilarious recriminations going back and forth in the following days.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 10, 2014)

you dont get that at the oval!


----------



## JTG (Jan 10, 2014)

Wasn't there but I'd be utterly shocked if there were no Rovers on the antifa side that day. And yeah, I think there were some GHS got locked outside the pub though wouldn't know much more than that - will bow to butchers on this one


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 12, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> what on earth are you boys talking about? rovers? gasheads? are you mechanics?


It's like 'went the day well' with our resident anti fascist expert


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 12, 2014)

eejit.


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 12, 2014)

For someone who considers yourself qualified to write a book on anti fascism, you show an amazing lack of knowledge about virtually everything, and especially to do with the history of anti fascism


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 12, 2014)

Lol


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 13, 2014)

barney, do us all a favour and wear this will you?


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 13, 2014)

Still scabbing?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 13, 2014)

if you're uncomfortable with the logo, tippex it out. but watch those fumes!


----------



## barney_pig (Jan 13, 2014)

Still a scab?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 14, 2014)

> The violent ex-leader of the far right English Defence League is set to give talks on tolerance to schoolchildren.
> Tommy Robinson – a convicted thug, fraudster and football hooligan – is due to begin his tour within days.
> But the decision to let him into the classroom has sparked fury with the public.
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...nt-ex-edl-leader-3020041#.UtSJY9oQOq4.twitter



wtf? Is this true?


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2014)

The missus signed us up for lectures and films etc at the nearest university for a year. A lecture that we booked last night was entitled -  

"*Islam, Democracy & Politics - Wider Implications of the Arab Spring"
*
When I looked it up later it is by a senior researcher at Quilliam Sheikh Dr. Usama Hasan.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 14, 2014)

That's the bloke under serious attack from fundies - has even had a fatwa put out on him. A death one.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That's the bloke under serious attack from fundies - has even had a fatwa put out on him. A death one.


Cheers. I'll have a look into it in a bit.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2014)

I think I'll sit at the back. Just in case.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 14, 2014)

Here we go.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Here we go.


Thanks all i'd found so far was this. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/mar/06/usama-hasan-london-imam-death-threats-evolution


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2014)

From Butchers' link


> This is perhaps the most extreme reaction there has ever been to an article on Comment is free:


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 14, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> For someone who considers yourself qualified to write a book on anti fascism, you show an amazing lack of knowledge about virtually everything, and especially to do with the history of anti fascism





barney_pig said:


> It's like 'went the day well' with our resident anti fascist expert



barney, 'irony: when the intended meaning is the exact opposite of its literal meaning.' stop trying too hard, you big daft gowk.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 14, 2014)

robinson skool thing cancelled.
"Thank you for your email. I understand that this visit has been cancelled and the school is reviewing its policies and protocols on visits from outside speakers.
Yours sincerely
Dr Clare Mills 
Senior Parliamentary Assistant to Rt. Hon. Sir Alan Beith, MP for Berwick upon Tweed


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

Hmm.. this is a tricky one - the London media has been reporting that the Muslim Brotherhood (exiled Egyptians?) have set up an office in a disused shop in Cricklewood NW London.  The EDL have apparently called a national? demo there for this Saturday.

Obviously we don't want the EDL thinking they can mobilise unimpeded in an area with lots of muslims. At the same time, there can't be any suggestion that any counter-demo has any political sympathy with the MB....


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

We?


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

we, residents of Brent - a multicultural, largely working class borough in inner London


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

rumours it's this crowd instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_First


----------



## Limerick Red (Jan 16, 2014)

It is Britain First not the EDL, its not a national Demo. The residents of Brent have no interest in defending the far right from the far right!


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> we, residents of Brent - a multicultural, largely working class borough in inner London


How did you get elected to speak for them? To tell us on here what they want?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> we, residents of Brent - a multicultural, largely working class borough in inner London


...and no



> there can't be any suggestion that any counter-demo has any political sympathy with the MB....



doesn't this suggest something else? That it's not a we at all?


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> It is Britain First not the EDL, its not a national Demo. The residents of Brent have no interest in defending the far right from the far right!


 
I'm not talking about defending the MB - I'm talking about not allowing muslim-hating nazis parade around like they own the place.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> doesn't this suggest something else? That it's not a we at all?


does it?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> I'm not talking about defending the MB - I'm talking about not allowing muslim-hating nazis parade around like they own the place.


Didn't you use to work in some branch of PR? If so, why cannot you grasp what's going on here?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> does it?


Of course it does - it suggest that those not bothered about or sympathetic to the MB are not part of your we - a we identified as everyone in the area. It's pretty fascistic to be honest. But tht's what happens when you jump on the bandwagon with no knowledge or fucking anything.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Didn't you use to work in some branch of PR? If so, why cannot you grasp what's going on here?


some branch of PR?  No - never.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> pretty fascistic to be honest. .


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> some branch of PR?  No - never.


Yeah, right.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

My "we" is people who don't want far right thugs whipping up islamophobia.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

all sensible patriots welcome apparently:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=391397244338876


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> My "we" is people who don't want far right thugs whipping up islamophobia.


So not your previous 'we'



> we, residents of Brent - a multicultural, largely working class borough in inner London


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> all sensible patriots welcome apparently:
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=391397244338876


Oh god. The whole point is to make you panic like  this.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> So not your previous 'we'


 there is a massive amount of overlap


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2014)

articul8 said:


> there is a massive amount of overlap



That is a no then.


----------



## manny-p (Jan 17, 2014)

articul8 said:


> there is a massive amount of overlap


You talking about the labour party?


----------



## articul8 (Jan 17, 2014)

No - insofar as there are muslim haters round here they are more likely to be Hindu nationalists.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 17, 2014)

articul8 said:


> No - insofar as there are muslim haters round here they are more likely to be Hindu nationalists.


Yes that's right.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 17, 2014)

crivvens! 
http://www.lincolnshireecho.co.uk/F...-hijack-East/story-20446104-detail/story.html


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jan 17, 2014)

articul8 said:


> No - insofar as there are muslim haters round here they are more likely to be Hindu nationalists.



No Islamophobes in the local labour party then? Must be the only one in the country like that.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 17, 2014)

more political policing (and amateur hooliganism and druuuunken facebook boasting).
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider/


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 17, 2014)

Can we just end this thread now we're just getting pointless hnh postings?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 17, 2014)

only when we get to post #16000


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2014)

you dont think political policing worth commenting on then?


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jan 18, 2014)

Not sure if this thread covers them as well but nice to see Britain First outnumbered in Cricklewood today.












http://wembleymatters.blogspot.se/2014/01/brent-unites-against-islamophobic-mob.html


----------



## Limerick Red (Jan 19, 2014)

.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 19, 2014)

butchersapron said:
			
		

> Can we just end this thread now we're just getting pointless hnh postings?



At least we've broken free from youtube and screengrabs.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 20, 2014)

What's that thing about repeating the same actions and expecting different results?

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10948533.March_for_England_set_to_return_to_Brighton/


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 20, 2014)

this thing is rapidly becoming an antifascist show of strength. they are surrounded by plod for their own protection. it has gone badly for the last few years. 'like a dog that returneth to its own vomit ...' eejots.


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 21, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> Not sure if this thread covers them as well but nice to see Britain First outnumbered in Cricklewood today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sign above could have said looney shower


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 21, 2014)

On tangential interest is that that Britain First demo is less than half a mile away from the Islamicist-linked business address of the philandering ‘former’ spycop, founder of the Muslim Contact Unit and more recently self-identified academic Bob Lambert.


----------



## cesare (Jan 21, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> On tangential interest is that that Britain First demo is less than half a mile away from the Islamicist-linked business address of the philandering ‘former’ spycop, founder of the Muslim Contact Unit and more recently self-identified academic Bob Lambert.


Well spotted.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 21, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What's that thing about repeating the same actions and expecting different results?
> 
> http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10948533.March_for_England_set_to_return_to_Brighton/


ace poster for it, as someone else said, loving the communist imagery
why don't the home town infidels get their own ! ?


----------



## Corax (Jan 21, 2014)

Deliberate reference to Smash EDO?


----------



## inva (Jan 21, 2014)

Corax said:


> Deliberate reference to Smash EDO?


don't UAF go on about smashing things? I assumed it was copying that...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 21, 2014)

I wonder if the council/plod agree to bus them down to Maderia Drive this time? The 750 grand bill for last years fuck up along Kings Avenue certainly won't be repeated.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 21, 2014)

Corax said:


> Deliberate reference to Smash EDO?



Nah.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 22, 2014)

brighton infidels? isnt that the 5 twats who made a complete spectacle of themselves a bit ago? if so, its them plus loads of outsiders.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 22, 2014)

crivvens! 
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/video---birmingham-edl-demo-6537144


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 22, 2014)

The first is James dean Bradfield. Whereabouts unknown.  Links to Yate, Blackwood and Aberdare.


----------



## imposs1904 (Jan 22, 2014)

Iain Holloway is in there as well.


----------



## articul8 (Jan 22, 2014)

What's all this about a Jobbik demo before Holocaust memorial day - are the Brit far right mobilising for this?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 22, 2014)

i know that laughing at illiterate fascists is hardly militant but this, in a way, seems to indicate that they subliminally know its over.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jan 23, 2014)

big lols ^


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 23, 2014)

and Tommy is down! 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25862838
pity, his post-EDL career was going so well. like griffin, its always the money.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 23, 2014)

Fucking hell, lol


----------



## Corax (Jan 23, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> and Tommy is down!
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25862838
> pity, his post-EDL career was going so well. like griffin, its always the money.





> His barrister Charles Sherrard QC said that in January 2013, when Lennon was jailed for 10 months for using someone else's passport to travel to the USA, he had spent the whole time in solitary and was moved to four different jails for his safety.
> 
> 'Wanted by al-Shabab'
> "Even in solitary he was regarded as being in danger," said Mr Sherrard.
> ...


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 23, 2014)




----------



## krink (Jan 23, 2014)

I had to crowbar the fucker in there but I got something resembling a joke;  what did the jail cell door say to tommy robinson? I Slam.

No?


*gets coat*


----------



## belboid (Jan 23, 2014)

is lame


----------



## Limerick Red (Jan 23, 2014)

next weekend!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 23, 2014)

belboid said:
			
		

> is lame



Corax 'liked' that. Fucking hell!  

Whatever would equationgirl and  toggle say?


----------



## toggle (Jan 23, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Corax 'liked' that. Fucking hell!
> 
> Whatever would equationgirl and  toggle say?



that you're being a shitstirring fuckwit is the first thing that comes to mind.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 23, 2014)

toggle said:


> that you're being a shitstirring fuckwit is the first thing that comes to mind.



If someone is going to lord it over me I at least expect that they'd cling to their blatantly disingenuous position for longer than a week. 

How dare I mention it? Funny that you got riled when I pointed out EG's hypocrisy also. Chancers.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 23, 2014)

Interesting how you haven't condemned the word this time though and reserved your ire for me.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 23, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Interesting how you haven't condemned the word this time though and reserved your ire for me.


That's because I've got you on ignore.

Funnily enough, I don't trawl through urban looking for things to jump on, and I certainly don't read every thread. But thanks for pointing it out, I'll deploy the standard post.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 23, 2014)

belboid said:


> is lame


Please can you not use lame as a perjorative. Thanks.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 23, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> If someone is going to lord it over me I at least expect that they'd cling to their blatantly disingenuous position for longer than a week.
> 
> How dare I mention it? Funny that you got riled when I pointed out EG's hypocrisy also. Chancers.


No-one's lording it over you, for fuck's sake.

I'm not a hypocrite. However I hope you enjoyed your few hours of going 'oooh look, there's an instance of 'lame' she's not complained about, aren't I brilliant for pointing this out'.

Get over yourself.


----------



## Corax (Jan 23, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Corax 'liked' that. Fucking hell!
> 
> Whatever would equationgirl and  toggle say?


It's a pun petal. I like wordplay. 

Now, what was your point again?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Corax 'liked' that. Fucking hell!
> 
> Whatever would equationgirl and  toggle say?



_Christ_ but you're a prick.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 24, 2014)

Corax said:
			
		

> It's a pun petal. I like wordplay.
> 
> Now, what was your point again?



Oh so it's ok as long as it's a joke? 

I see.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 24, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:
			
		

> Christ but you're a prick.



Yeah, what a tosser I am for finding hypocrisy funny.


----------



## andysays (Jan 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Yeah, what a tosser I am for finding hypocrisy funny.



I think your response here is misjudged, to say the least.

While I don't agree with equationgirl's policy of requesting people don't use this word everytime she sees it (although obviously she's entitled to do it if she wishes), to suggest that she is in some way playing favourites for not having done so here, and to whine when others point out that you're being a bit of a prick, doesn't really do anything to convince the undecided on this issue, it just makes it look as if all of us who think people should be cut a bit of slack for unintentionally using words that others find offensive are more interested in turning this issue into a personal beef rather than trying to have a calm discussion.

You don't win an argument by behaving like a prick


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 24, 2014)

Cheers for the personal assessment, I'm sure I won't bear it in mind.

Anyway enough of the derail, Robinson is banged up.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25862838


----------



## andysays (Jan 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Cheers for the personal assessment, I'm sure I won't bear it in mind.
> 
> Anyway enough of the derail, Robinson is banged up.
> 
> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25862838



You're welcome to bear it in mind, or not, just as you're welcome to behave in a way that leaves people thinking you're a prick, or not.

Just thought you might be interested to hear how you're coming across to someone who actually agrees with the basic point you started off arguing, before your prickish tendencies took over.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 24, 2014)

andysays said:
			
		

> You're welcome to bear it in mind, or not, just as you're welcome to behave in a way that leaves people thinking you're a prick, or not.
> 
> Just thought you might be interested to hear how you're coming across to someone who actually agrees with the basic point you started off arguing, before your prickish tendencies took over.



So someone lords it over me for pages and pages and then a couple of days later I see him 'liking' someone saying lame and me pointing this out makes me the prick? Remind me never to have you on the jury.


----------



## andysays (Jan 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> So someone lords it over me for pages and pages and then a couple of days later I see him 'liking' someone saying lame and me pointing this out makes me the prick? Remind me never to have you on the jury.



I'm not sure that anyone has really been "lording" over anyone, TBH, but even if they had, just because everyone else is acting like a cunt is no excuse for you to do so, as my dear old mum used to say...


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 24, 2014)

andysays said:
			
		

> I'm not sure that anyone has really been "lording" over anyone, TBH, but even if they had, just because everyone else is acting like a cunt is no excuse for you to do so, as my dear old mum used to say...



You can tell you haven't been on urban very long...


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Cheers for the personal assessment, I'm sure I won't bear it in mind.
> 
> *Anyway enough of the derail,* Robinson is banged up.
> 
> http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25862838





Citizen66 said:


> So someone lords it over me for pages and pages and then a couple of days later I see him 'liking' someone saying lame and me pointing this out makes me the prick? Remind me never to have you on the jury.



And this is why you're a prick. Even after saying "enough of the derail" you just can't leave it alone. Mind you, nor can I leave it alone. But pointing out to a prick that he's a prick never gets old.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 24, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:
			
		

> And this is why you're a prick. Even after saying "enough of the derail" you just can't leave it alone. Mind you, nor can I leave it alone. But pointing out to a prick that he's a prick never gets old.



Oh so I'm a prick because responding to you and Andysays means I 'can't leave it alone'? 

By the way, calling people names on the internet is definitely a good look. You should go hang out on youtube.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 24, 2014)

The _soi-distant_ anarchist is crying.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 24, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:
			
		

> The soi-distant anarchist is crying.



Your fantasies aren't half as enjoyable when you make a poor effort on spelling.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 24, 2014)

anyway, the EDL ...


----------



## Corax (Jan 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Oh so it's ok as long as it's a joke?
> 
> I see.


Was it_ actually _being used as a pejorative?

Was it?

Do you see?


----------



## laptop (Jan 24, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> The _soi-distant_ anarchist



Alienation theory in action.

Or: poster requires the attention of an alienist...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 24, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> The _soi-distant_ anarchist is crying.








frances lengel recently


----------



## cesare (Jan 24, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> frances lengel recently


Monj too rodders


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 24, 2014)

So.........

....how long will Tommy actually serve? 

And how will he use the experience to further his new role as speaker against extremism?

1. Open University course in accountancy?
2. Religious conversion?
3. A ghost-written autobiography?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 24, 2014)

out in half the time if you behave isn't it?so 9 months


----------



## Corax (Jan 24, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> out in half the time if you behave isn't it?so 9 months


Yeah, but on a tag for x many months after, and even when the tag comes off you go straight back inside for the rest of your sentence if you step at all out of line until your time's done. And that'd be fairly likely with Lennon I'd have thought.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 24, 2014)

Corax said:


> Yeah, but on a tag for x many months after, and even when the tag comes off you go straight back inside for the rest of your sentence if you step at all out of line until your time's done. And that'd be fairly likely with Lennon I'd have thought.



Only if he wants to keep up with the "hard man" image, which is unlikely now he's found the light


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jan 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Your fantasies aren't half as enjoyable when you make a poor effort on spelling.



Just as patriotism is widely held to be the last refuge of the scoundrel, so nitpicking about spelling and crap like that is the first port of call of the walloper with fuck all of substance to add to the debate*.




*Except when I do it. Then it's perfectly justified.










. 



malatesta32 said:


> anyway, the EDL ...



Are a spent force, though even when they were in the ascendant, one didn't have to look too far to find much more worthwhile targets for our opprobrium.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 25, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Just as patriotism is widely held to be the last refuge of the scoundrel, so nitpicking about spelling and crap like that is the first port of call of the walloper with fuck all of substance to add to the debate.



I'm supposed to have something to add to the 'debate' about being called a prick?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> So.........
> 
> ....how long will Tommy actually serve?
> 
> ...



he said it he'd be out in 18 months. his media career is over as no one trusts him. i imagine he is writing mein kamperwaggen right now.


----------



## framed (Jan 25, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> he said it he'd be out in 18 months. his media career is over as no one trusts him. i imagine he is writing mein kamperwaggen right now.



I think he'll emerge from prison as a moderate muslim convert, you know, the type the EDL can work with...


----------



## bignose1 (Jan 28, 2014)

framed said:


> I think he'll emerge from prison as a moderate muslim convert, you know, the type the EDL can work with...



Some sort of umbro-lla group here....


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 29, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That's the bloke under serious attack from fundies - has even had a fatwa put out on him. A death one.


 I didn't know to put this here or the lib dem thread but I went along to the lecture which quite possibly makes me a fascist. There was a bit of a fuss outside.
http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2...lk-because-speaker-didnt-condemn-maajid-nawaz

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Pro...h-University/story-20521964-detail/story.html

There were UAF placards around and I recognised a couple of people in the photo from the odd Socialist Party meeting I've been to. The leaflets they're holding up have fuck all to do with the cartoon and are a print out of a Nick Lowles article about Lennon with some UAF branding. I'm not sure whether they were there about the cartoons or just happened to be there at the same time and have a photo with those who were. A few of those in the photo did come in, though a few walked out, some pretty quickly. The wife didn't like the fact that someone from the demonstration filmed us as we walked in, although I was, as usual, oblivious. The first question after the lecture was about the cartoon and the lecturer's tweet not condemning them.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 30, 2014)

poor tommy! 
http://twitpic.com/dtsbjk


----------



## krink (Jan 30, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> I didn't know to put this here or the lib dem thread



is there no jesus and mo thread? mildly surprised if there isn't


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 30, 2014)

krink said:


> is there no jesus and mo thread? mildly surprised if there isn't


Found it. I'll repost it there. I looked last night but only did a title search.


----------



## Combustible (Jan 31, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Pro...h-University/story-20521964-detail/story.html



There is some whinging about this article and an attempt at a justification here

http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/anti-quilliam-protest-at-plymouth-university/

They don't even deny that it is to do with the cartoons, merely say it is the not the 'only reason'. And even that is ok but the cartoons suggested Jesus and Mohammed might be gay. God forbid!

I also almost admire the cheek of this one.



> Plymouth University ISoc also condemned a cartoon tweeted by Usama Hasan himself, which trivialised domestic violence.



So posting a cartoon which mocks the Taliban's endorsement of domestic violence is trivialising domestic violence but the Islamophobia watch website seems to have pages of puff pieces and posts defending Yusuf Qaradawi. 



> Within the context of Arabic Islam, he has been remarkable in arguing in favour of female education and employment; he has even declared they can be judges and has called for more women to become Islamic jurists. But of the notorious verse in the Qur'an which allows for the "beating" of wives by their husband, Qaradawi says he accepts it as a method of last resort - though only "lightly". His critics within the Muslim community argue that his position has been overtaken by other scholars who believe that a closer translation of the verse does not condone physical punishment, but is instead about setting an example.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/29/religion.uk1

So that's alright then.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 31, 2014)

Combustible said:


> There is some whinging about this article and an attempt at a justification here
> 
> http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/anti-quilliam-protest-at-plymouth-university/
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. Both Hasan's twitter and the No to Quilliam Facebook page seem to be giving inaccurate figures on the numbers. The No page suggests there were more people on the demo than in the lecture.I would dispute that. Hasan seems to underestimate the numbers on the Demo (says 10-20 but there are more than that in the picture and there are some faces I recognised missing) and overestimates the number in the lecture but may be going by tickets rather than bums on seats. I did pause and think after learning it was Quilliam, having got my ticket on the title alone, but decided to go anyway. Others may have kept their ticket(alumni can pay for a year and get tickets for any lectures free) and stayed at home/joined the protest.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 31, 2014)

Oh also the video I was unaware of does exist and is now up on the facebook page. I guess I'm an islamophobe now.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 1, 2014)

Oh me oh my. There's a new (ish?)  Facebook page called English Defence Union. Can you guess what it's trying to do? Unite the right of course. There's some stuff about "no surrender" up there too. It's like the old days really but with less than 600 "likes" rather than scores of thousands.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 1, 2014)

EDL at slough for the big one! piss poor.





as it happens:
http://www.sloughexpress.co.uk/News...h-and-counter-protests-in-Slough-31012014.htm


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 1, 2014)

150 at most. 1st national demo. total washout. antifa, uaf and local asian youth in opposition. just waiting on more photos.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 1, 2014)

here we are





*Hassan Ghani*‏@hassan_ghani
'Filming is my priority here. Police lost control for few minutes and two sides almost came into full contact. Will upload raw footage later'


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Feb 1, 2014)

I don't live anywhere near all this.  But is there something I can do to show support?  Perhaps a badge I can wear or something? I am surrounded by bloody Tories and there are no organisations close to me.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 1, 2014)

what? show support to what?


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Feb 1, 2014)

ddraig said:


> what? show support to what?


How can I show support for the Anti-fascists?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 1, 2014)

by being anti fascist
nothing in the county you are in or nearest town?


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 1, 2014)

> *London Antifascists*
> Cops and UAF trying to clear the High st to let the EDL pass. NO PASARAN.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 1, 2014)

EDL LGBT Division


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 1, 2014)

bit of argy bargy, couple of head wounds, EDL chucking bottles. you would think they'd have learnt from walsall??????


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Feb 1, 2014)

I knew it was a mistake to cross the road to take a pic of our side. Just as the police decided to clear us off the road and make way for the scum.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Feb 1, 2014)

Their muster point on the station approach. Piss poor turnout.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Feb 1, 2014)

The high street with humans on it before the police forced the scum down it.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 1, 2014)

http://jesshurd.com/2014/02/01/edl-slough/


----------



## friendofdorothy (Feb 1, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> EDL LGBT Division


shit! - is that a EDL - LGBT flag? makes me ashamed to be queer . . .


----------



## ddraig (Feb 2, 2014)

not really real tho


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 2, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> I knew it was a mistake to cross the road to take a pic of our side. Just as the police decided to clear us off the road and make way for the scum.



great pix. nice one!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 2, 2014)

made up LGBT brigade. as believable as the EDL's concern for FGM and womens rights in islamic countries. one of the members of the LGBT got his head kicked in by his erstwhile comrades in boozer in east anglia which dented that bit of propoaganda.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Feb 2, 2014)

and the woman who brought it and handed to the guy for the march was wearing an Infidels hoody


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Feb 2, 2014)

cheers


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Feb 2, 2014)




----------



## bolshiebhoy (Feb 2, 2014)

This copper was ok but two mins later one of his mates in the community liaison blue strips asked an Asian driver to stop staring at the edl cause the edl were feeling provoked by him. I shit you not!


----------



## TopCat (Feb 2, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> cheers


Why is the guy in the bottom left eating a WPC's hat? Were they kettled for a long time?


----------



## TopCat (Feb 2, 2014)




----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 2, 2014)

and yet again dave bolton was twatted by his own side. 3rd time lucky eh dave?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 2, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> This copper was ok but two mins later one of his mates in the community liaison blue strips asked an Asian driver to stop staring at the edl cause the edl were feeling provoked by him. I shit you not!


what is that on the ginger bloke's jacket and is he undercover? ta
also do you know what it said on the Welsh flag please?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 2, 2014)

the ginger bloke it looks like he has got a tiny jack russell in his pocket. and as for these 2 arsebugles ...


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 3, 2014)

ddraig said:


> what is that on the ginger bloke's jacket and is he undercover? ta
> also do you know what it said on the Welsh flag please?


Welsh flag says: 'Alfie'....... presumably given to him by his ma, in case he gets lost.

Ginger blokes jacket.... looks more like a gremlin to me.... one of the bad ones!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 3, 2014)

A proper jaw dropper 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=480806412025008&set=gm.666107550102379&type=1

(On Twitter, following some ridicule about supposed muslims in the nazi party)

EDL Lowestoft - The Nazis were made up of many diffitent religions (sic), so it's impossible to pin them down to just one!

Lucy Buttercup - Name them.

EDL Lowestoft - More free education, but ok if I must....Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist to name but four...


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 3, 2014)

Not specifically EDL, but 'Britons Against Left-Wing Extremism' are playing this cunt's trick:

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Don-t-...ually-racist/story-20549797-detail/story.html


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Feb 3, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> A proper jaw dropper
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=480806412025008&set=gm.666107550102379&type=1
> 
> ...



The National Socialist German Workers' Party or modern day Nazis?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 3, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> The National Socialist German Workers' Party or modern day Nazis?



Note the past tense, it was a conversation about NSDAP


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Feb 3, 2014)

I was led to believe that they were mainly Catholics and that the intention was to bring everyone into an Aryan Norse belief.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 3, 2014)

silly vid of copper falling over at Slough


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 3, 2014)

that i like.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 4, 2014)

Latest 'Malatesta': RIP Tommy Robinson
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/rip-tommy-robinson/


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 5, 2014)

Apols if this has already been up. An important follow up on the Eva Silver case (FB far right stooge who was all over left-tilted pages).

Lawful Rebellion once again caught up in far right nonsense.

http://exeteredlnews.wordpress.com/...ook-spam-patriotic-unity-and-the-magna-carta/


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Feb 5, 2014)

Obnoxiousness said:


> I was led to believe that they were mainly Catholics and that the intention was to bring everyone into an Aryan Norse belief.



the base was south German, at least initially, which would tend to indicate Catholic IIRC. But your point about the Norse (pagan) stuff is far more important for what was to come. For me, what separates German Nazi-ism from Italian, Spannish and other fascist movements is the obsession with the occult. The race "science" stuff was linked to some very far out beliefs derived from the Thule Society and the likes of Blavatsky (not that i would slur Blavatsky on this alone). Himmler spent inordinate amounts of time looking for Agartha (theorised civilisation concurrent with "Hollow Earth" theory) and there was a very odd doctrine called "World Ice Theory". That's just the tip of the iceberg. There's some fascinating YT stuff about it all. Proper bonkers. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welteislehre


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 5, 2014)

TopCat said:


> View attachment 47650


What could the charges be?



nb.He thought he was in Acosta Copper...having a cap-ucinno


----------



## krink (Feb 5, 2014)

bignose1 said:


> What could the charges be?
> 
> 
> 
> nb.He thought he was in Acosta Copper...having a cap-ucinno



is that the peak of your punnery? not exactly brimming with humour.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 5, 2014)

oh dear!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=390143957796026&set=gm.720217928002789&type=1&theater


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 5, 2014)

*This content is currently unavailable*


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 5, 2014)

apologies comrades.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/edl-founde...-muslim-attack-beaten-woodhill-prison-1435264


----------



## cantsin (Feb 5, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> apologies comrades.
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/edl-founde...-muslim-attack-beaten-woodhill-prison-1435264



the implications of the lack of legal aid in that kind of situation is shocking,whatever the ins and out...


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2014)

maybe he can put his designer clothes and expensive car on ebay? he was always canny about money.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 6, 2014)

latest 'Malatesta': http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2014/02/05/far-right-far-from-unity/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 7, 2014)

the little tosser wants preferential treatment now: 
http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Quilliam-letter-to-MoJ.pdf


----------



## framed (Feb 7, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> the little tosser wants preferential treatment now:
> http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Quilliam-letter-to-MoJ.pdf



It's a British remake of American History X with Tommy in the Edward Norton role and Quilliam's Maajid Nawaz as the good teacher...


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 7, 2014)

ha ha, very good!!!!


----------



## krink (Feb 7, 2014)

someone photoshop it!


----------



## framed (Feb 7, 2014)

Wise minds and all that... 

I was half-hoping someone with greater computer skills than me might be able to photoshop a _British History X _from the original film poster_.
_
Maybe Yaxley-Lennon foreground with Maajid Nawaz peeping out from behind him?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 7, 2014)

framed said:


> Wise minds and all that...
> 
> I was half-hoping someone with greater computer skills than me might be able to photoshop a _British History X _from the original film poster_.
> _
> Maybe Yaxley-Lennon foreground with Maajid Nawaz peeping out from behind him?



Get it posted up onto B3TA, they would have it sorted for you in no time! (They may even run a compo about it!)


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2014)

who is King of the EDL now tommy has abdicated?


----------



## Chick Webb (Feb 7, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> who is King of the EDL now tommy has abdicated?


Not a clue.  They had a speaker at Slough, but everyone was kept so far back only themselves could hear him.  I think they started playing power ballads on a stereo at one point though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2014)

white power ballads I expect


----------



## Chick Webb (Feb 7, 2014)

Haha.   Seriously, I'm worried by the sophistication.  Everyone loves power ballads.  We should have gotten there first.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Get it posted up onto B3TA, they would have it sorted for you in no time! (They may even run a compo about it!)



I'm on it...


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

[img removed]

I can add the blurb to the bottom if anyone has any witty suggestions.


----------



## Chick Webb (Feb 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I can add the blurb to the bottom if anyone has any witty suggestions.


That film looks like a slash fangirl's dream.  I'd watch it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I can add the blurb to the bottom if anyone has any witty suggestions.



'excellent performance. Two Quenelles'


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2014)

'Tommy Robinson gives a performance more blistering than his sunbeds'


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

Done, then?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

The font isn't perfect but it's the closest I had. I can change it if anyone can be arsed tracking down the one used.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2014)

tidy 

have been reminded of the kerb stomping scene. Some scenes you only want to watch the once...


----------



## fishfinger (Feb 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Done, then?


Damn, I'd been working on one too.   Yours is better though


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 7, 2014)

lol that is perfect


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2014)

though I'm not going to shed a tear for Tommy getting a kicking in prison I do dislike the complicity of screws and the chief PO. These people treat a jail like a personal fiefdom and its not right.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> Damn, I'd been working on one too.   Yours is better though



Maybe we should keep it going? Any other appropriate films anyone?  

Then we should discuss who will take what. I didn't mean to tread on any toes.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

Maybe it should be taken off this thread though if it happens...


----------



## fishfinger (Feb 7, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Maybe we should keep it going? Any other appropriate films anyone?


Sounds like a fun idea 



> Then we should discuss who will take what. I didn't mean to tread on any toes.


You certainly didn't tread on my toes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2014)




----------



## Ranbay (Feb 7, 2014)




----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 7, 2014)

I'll back away from proper photoshop jobbies like. I was able to blag that one as it was easy.


----------



## framed (Feb 8, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Done, then?



Bloody Marvellous!


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 8, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> who is King of the EDL now tommy has abdicated?



the default leader is now tim albitt who was arrested for a mosque incident but cleared, he is also said to be in control of the EDL cash which have never been properly accounted for or taxed. there will be £1,000s gone thru the account as robinson is a spiv like griffclops and never missed a chance to air the begging bowl. hel gower is still in control of the brand name EDL, the facebook pages and apparently tommys twitter account. there are only a couple of 100 'foot soldiers' left now and many divisions have either deserted, collapsed or all fallen out with each other. the worry is that some drift more rightwards. the new unity attempt will be interesting to follow:
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2014/02/05/far-right-far-from-unity/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 8, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> 'excellent performance. Two Quenelles'



surely 4 quenelles (a la two ronnies).


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 8, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> The font isn't perfect but it's the closest I had. I can change it if anyone can be arsed tracking down the one used.



C66, can i put it on the blog?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 8, 2014)




----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2014)

malatesta32 said:
			
		

> C66, can i put it on the blog?



Sure


----------



## framed (Feb 8, 2014)

http://talfanzine.info/blog/2014/02/08/british-history-x/


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 8, 2014)

Nice one. Cheers for the credit although you didn't have to.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 9, 2014)

.


----------



## DrRingDing (Feb 10, 2014)

What's going on with the dude's head in the middle?

Looks part klingon.


----------



## Nigel (Feb 14, 2014)

Does anyone know anything about 
Apparently this is a dodgy account!
Do not put anything on this or hand over info that could jeopardise the cause!
AntiFash Youth Gigs.
Rumours going around that there a bit dodgy?

https://www.facebook.com/antifash.ukyouth


----------



## juice_terry (Feb 14, 2014)

I saw that you posted that on facebook too Nigel but the link doesn't work .. contents taken down


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 16, 2014)

fash turned up totally pissed at the republican do in wakefield. several arrests. complete jizz-spigots. 
http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...l-speight-arrested-during-drunken-prison-demo


----------



## J Ed (Feb 16, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> fash turned up totally pissed at the republican do in wakefield. several arrests. complete jizz-spigots.
> http://edlnews.co.uk/index.php/late...l-speight-arrested-during-drunken-prison-demo





> Wakefield based *fishwife*, Gail Speight, has been arrested after turning up drunk at a protest against a terrorist organsation that was disbanded fifteen years ago.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 20, 2014)

I hate those edl news cunts even more than the edl.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 21, 2014)

plod still after the Walsall rioters. they really are keen on making an example of them. 
http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/latest-news/news.aspx?id=356


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 21, 2014)

EDL photo project
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/15/english-defence-league_n_4284404.html


----------



## tony.c (Feb 22, 2014)

SpineyNorman said:


> I hate those edl news cunts even more than the edl./quote]
> 
> I don't hate anyone. I hate racism and fascism and I dislike those who are racists and fascists. I might disagree with the politics or sometimes the way in which some anti-racists or anti-fascists operate, but I am not going to criticise anyone who is actually doing something.
> 
> Edited to be a bit more clear hopefully.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 22, 2014)

Fighting fascism with sexism is anti fascism?


----------



## Corax (Feb 22, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Fighting fascism with sexism is anti fascism?


It's intended to be at least.

Which doesn't excuse it. But at least there's the basic ingredient, even if it does need some serious baking to make it palatable.


----------



## barney_pig (Feb 22, 2014)

Classist and sexist slurs are always the best way to combat fascism


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 22, 2014)

EDL gather at grantham. 100 tops.
http://www.rightnow.io/breaking-news/grantham_bn_1393065265886.html


----------



## weepiper (Feb 22, 2014)

I don't regard anyone who uses the word 'fishwife' about a working class woman as on the same side as me. No matter how loathsome she is.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 22, 2014)

They're not antiracists. They're anti-working class scum. They're perfectly confortable calling people 'low functioning humans' and saying 'if I want to set a chav on fire I will do'. People like that are not on the same side as me.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 24, 2014)

SpineyNorman said:


> They're not antiracists. They're anti-working class scum. They're perfectly confortable calling people 'low functioning humans' and saying 'if I want to set a chav on fire I will do'. People like that are not on the same side as me.


 
This.


----------



## aylee (Feb 24, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL gather at grantham. 100 tops.
> http://www.rightnow.io/breaking-news/grantham_bn_1393065265886.html


 
My mum was at the counter-demo.


----------



## tony.c (Feb 24, 2014)

SpineyNorman said:


> They're not antiracists. They're anti-working class scum. They're perfectly confortable calling people 'low functioning humans' and saying 'if I want to set a chav on fire I will do'. People like that are not on the same side as me.


Well I don't know that much about them, but I doubt that they want to beat up or kill people because of their religion or skin colour.
But they do give some useful information about the fascists, as did Searchlight in the past, though I wouldn't agree with everything they said or did either.
People who criticise should perhaps set up an alternative source of information using politically correct terminology and working class politics. Until then any information source is useful.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 24, 2014)

tony.c said:


> Well I don't know that much about them, but I doubt that they want to beat up or kill people because of their religion or skin colour.
> But they do give some useful information about the fascists, as did Searchlight in the past, though I wouldn't agree with everything they said or did either.
> People who criticise should perhaps set up an alternative source of information using politically correct terminology and working class politics. Until then any information source is useful.


What you're doing there then tony is saying that these people have a licence to spread anti-working class crap because they do something that you find useful. They really really don't. They can still post up their screenshots of what irrelevant people said somewhere on the internet whether they're being challenged or not, and they could still, if they were actually committed to the equality they say that they are, do what they do without the crap. This defence is the sort of stuff that leads to Cameron and Martin Smyth into the UAF.


----------



## tony.c (Feb 24, 2014)

I doubt that the people who are the targets of racism and fascism would be so critical. And I don't think that their purpose is 'to spread anti-working class crap'. As to whether they are committed to 'equality', I don't think that is particularly true, I don't think they claim to be socialist, just to expose the edl, which is a legitimate aim.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 24, 2014)

so what is the justification for the purile shite and 'chavs'? etc


----------



## tony.c (Feb 24, 2014)

I'm not justifying it.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 24, 2014)

tony.c said:


> I doubt that the people who are the targets of racism and fascism would be so critical. And I don't think that their purpose is 'to spread anti-working class crap'. As to whether they are committed to 'equality', I don't think that is particularly true, I don't think they claim to be socialist, just to expose the edl, which is a legitimate aim.


I purposely chose the word equality rather than socialism or anything else tony because surely that's the basis for their campaigns against the edl? To be against racism and so on, to expose fake LGBT stuff is to be pro-equality? Anyway, it doesn't matter really, they're going to carry on in the way they always have - like posh uni students sitting in a pub talking about chavs being racist or something. That's the lot from me on this, nothing will change either way.


----------



## tony.c (Feb 24, 2014)

I agree.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 24, 2014)

tony.c said:


> I'm not justifying it.


you are sort of


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2014)

tony.c said:


> I doubt that the people who are the targets of racism and fascism would be so critical.



So working class prejudice and sexism should go unchallenged so long as it's by folk who oppose cultural or religious prejudice? 

Can you tell me what the position of fascism is towards the working class?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2014)

In attacking what they see is a fascist position edlnews adopt... a fascist position. Or at best a Conservative/liberal one.

What's their position on State racism? Or police racism? Have they written absolutely anything on it?


----------



## eskdave (Feb 24, 2014)

Proper fascist's are usually defending a strong position -EDL is a bunch of burst ball shitstirrers-and not to be tolerated-esp. by fascists.


----------



## Corax (Feb 24, 2014)

eskdave said:


> Proper fascist's are usually defending a strong position -EDL is a bunch of burst ball shitstirrers-and not to be tolerated-esp. by fascists.


Interesting post. As are your contributions elsewhere... :hmm;


----------



## eskdave (Feb 24, 2014)

Excommunicate me ,or kill me ,your choice.


----------



## friedaweed (Feb 24, 2014)

Ninja or Firky 
I cannae believe this one is peebs


----------



## eskdave (Feb 24, 2014)

I'm not Catholic,and barely alive-so that should be easy-bugger I am wandering


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 24, 2014)

My question was at tony.c and perhaps edlnews. Not the entire internet.


----------



## eskdave (Feb 24, 2014)

Greater things on my self-feebled mind-ninja fascists-firky fascists-all the newly enabled feeb fascists-fuck its like detention in a Ward of Combover cases


----------



## eskdave (Feb 24, 2014)

Sorry,anti fascists,but fascism is all our own, the state is OURS- you cannot wander off like you like to ,to-create some more contemporally divergent destructive bollockry -embrace the reality that every man, woman and beastie depends on this given natural cohesion-i'm sure it is easily grasped


----------



## eskdave (Feb 24, 2014)

Yeah-i always think i'm talking to a real person


----------



## Corax (Feb 24, 2014)

"Yawn" doesn't do it justice somehow.


----------



## eskdave (Feb 24, 2014)

confirmed


----------



## eskdave (Feb 24, 2014)

Got to let Me Staffie oot noo old"Pippa" Aye -She makes "Jock of The Veldt" look like a book


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Feb 25, 2014)

Just wandered back onto this thread out of curiosity, and on scanning the past few posts, immediately wished I hadn't.

Off to the General section I go, then!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 25, 2014)

WTF is going on here?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 25, 2014)

oddness


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Feb 25, 2014)

SpineyNorman said:


> I hate those edl news cunts even more than the edl.



The very same reason why I gave up on the "Expose EDL" lot - there's only so much anti-working class bullshit one can endure etc in one (or any other) lifetime...and my tolerance for said bullshit is set at a very low level indeed...


----------



## treelover (Feb 25, 2014)

> *David Bowie, who three months earlier had been photographed apparently giving a Nazi salute in Victoria Station, told Cameron Crowe in the September 1976 edition of Playboy ‘… yes I believe very strongly in fascism. The only way we can speed up the sort of liberalism that’s hanging foul in the air… is a right-wing totally dictatorial tyranny…’*



just read Framed's blog and read this, I knew Bowie has done a quasi facist salute at Victoria station, but the above, didn't he have any sense of history?, 'deviants' like him would have been first to face expulsion, beatings or worse if a fascist regime had ever come to power again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> just read Framed's blog and read this, I knew Bowie has done a quasi facist salute at Victoria station, but the above, didn't he have any sense of history?, 'deviants' like him would have been first to face expulsion, beatings or worse if a fascist regime had ever come to power again.


didn't stop e.g. rohm joining the nsdap did it?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2014)

treelover - genuine question
if you are reading a blog and taking the time to copy and paste some text here, why oh why oh why can't you paste the url too? 
you could have just made it up or amended it for your own ends


----------



## treelover (Feb 25, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL photo project
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/15/english-defence-league_n_4284404.html




 A year ago, you would have called this guy and his sentiments, an EDL sympathiser.


----------



## belboid (Feb 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> just read Framed's blog and read this, I knew Bowie has done a quasi facist salute at Victoria station, but the above, didn't he have any sense of history?, 'deviants' like him would have been first to face expulsion, beatings or worse if a fascist regime had ever come to power again.


he was off his head on coke. He knew nothing bout anything.


----------



## treelover (Feb 25, 2014)

> _Whatever you think about them they are a working class movement and they are genuine. You have to respect that no matter what you feel about their ideology"_.- Ed Thompson
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/15/english-defence-league_n_4284404.html



C'mon Mal, this man is a fellow traveller at least,


----------



## treelover (Feb 25, 2014)

Who on earth are these characters?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 25, 2014)

Bowie was deep into coke paranoia and occlut type facist shit at the time, but having looked at his so called fascist salute, it just looks like a top of the pops wave. Bowie undoubtdly thought he was being clever behind the backs of his fans with his style and entrance though.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> just read Framed's blog and read this, I knew Bowie has done a quasi facist salute at Victoria station, but the above, didn't he have any sense of history?, 'deviants' like him would have been first to face expulsion, beatings or worse if a fascist regime had ever come to power again.


what is 'Framed's blog' and the source of your quote? please


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> Who on earth are these characters?


It's called a joke ffs.


----------



## treelover (Feb 25, 2014)

http://talfanzine.info/blog/




ddraig said:


> what is 'Framed's blog' and the source of your quote? please


----------



## treelover (Feb 25, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> It's called a joke ffs.



what makes you say that?, looks a legit flyer to me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 25, 2014)

never forgave Bowie for 'Under Pressure'

I know someone who regularly does the 'Duh Duh Duh' bit from it apropos of nothing and it winds me right up. Partly because I'm the cunt who recognizes where its from.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> what makes you say that?, looks a legit flyer to me.


because he has more sense than you?
in what way does it look 'legit' ??


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 25, 2014)

treelover said:
			
		

> what makes you say that?, looks a legit flyer to me.



Legoland.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 25, 2014)

Indymedia reckons it's something to do with a Muslim only day or something. No idea if legit.


----------



## Corax (Feb 25, 2014)

Eid family fun day 

http://www.localberkshire.co.uk/new...eat-to-protest/#sthash.FMZNII1j.2WCTMXMM.dpuf


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 25, 2014)

wonder if there's a "svoboda news" where they all tweet irrelevant pictures to each other of something svoboda members said on the internet


----------



## seventh bullet (Feb 25, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> wonder if there's a "svoboda news" where they all tweet irrelevant pictures to each other of something svoboda members said on the internet



As evidenced in the mistaken thread in the general forum recently, there's no shortage of sneering at _gopnik_ 'trash' in the FSU.  I would guess that probably extends to people who take an interest in what the far-right gets up to in that part of the world, differing cultural/class contexts aside.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 25, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> As evidenced in the mistaken thread in the general forum recently, there's no shortage of sneering at _gopnik_ 'trash' in the FSU.


 
oh yeah, i know that. just thinking about how ridiculous/pointless it would be.


----------



## seventh bullet (Feb 25, 2014)

_I'm better than those people, better in my vileness._


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 25, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> _I'm better than those people, better in my vileness._


 
Came across a bit of that in Moldova tbh, complete with a bit of anti-russian racism.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> A year ago, you would have called this guy and his sentiments, an EDL sympathiser.



why?


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 25, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Indymedia reckons it's something to do with a Muslim only day or something. No idea if legit.



Isn't it to do with some speaker that has/ been invited to the Muslim event at Legoland?


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 25, 2014)

The39thStep said:
			
		

> Isn't it to do with some speaker that has/ been invited to the Muslim event at Legoland?



The comments on indymedia reckon it's (the antifa thing) bollocks. I haven't seen it come through the usual channels. Who'd want to ruck at legoland ffs?


----------



## Limerick Red (Feb 25, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> The comments on indymedia reckon it's (the antifa thing) bollocks. I haven't seen it come through the usual channels. Who'd want to ruck at legoland ffs?


can confirm this is not a genuine call out, but an attempt by far right to drum up interest from their own side in their demo.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 25, 2014)

Do Antifa even exist anymore? They were active around the time of the red, white and blue festival then completely dropped off the radar.


----------



## Limerick Red (Feb 25, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Do Antifa even exist anymore? They were active around the time of the red, white and blue festival then completely dropped off the radar.


No, not Antifa UK, although quite a few of them active in the AFN now.


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 25, 2014)

MRDF FAMILY FUN DAY – SUNDAY 9TH MARCH

The LEGOLAND Windsor Resort prides itself on welcoming everyone to our wonderful attraction, therefore the decision to cancel this private event was incredibly difficult. This outcome comes after discussions with the organisers and local Thames Valley Police and follows the receipt of a number of threatening phone calls, emails and social media posts to the Resort over recent days. These alone have led us to conclude that we can no longer guarantee the happy fun family event which was envisaged or the safety of our guests and employees on that day – which is always our number one priority.

Sadly it is our belief that deliberate misinformation fuelled by a small, but vociferous group with a clear agenda was designed expressly to achieve just this outcome. We are appalled at what has occurred, and at the fact that the real losers in this are the many families and children who were looking forward to an enjoyable day out at LEGOLAND. We would like to apologise to them and to the organisers, and to thank them for their understanding. We hope that they will all be able to come to visit us during the season.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 25, 2014)

B0B2oo9 said:


> MRDF FAMILY FUN DAY – SUNDAY 9TH MARCH
> 
> The LEGOLAND Windsor Resort prides itself on welcoming everyone to our wonderful attraction, therefore the decision to cancel this private event was incredibly difficult. This outcome comes after discussions with the organisers and local Thames Valley Police and follows the receipt of a number of threatening phone calls, emails and social media posts to the Resort over recent days. These alone have led us to conclude that we can no longer guarantee the happy fun family event which was envisaged or the safety of our guests and employees on that day – which is always our number one priority.
> 
> Sadly it is our belief that deliberate misinformation fuelled by a small, but vociferous group with a clear agenda was designed expressly to achieve just this outcome. We are appalled at what has occurred, and at the fact that the real losers in this are the many families and children who were looking forward to an enjoyable day out at LEGOLAND. We would like to apologise to them and to the organisers, and to thank them for their understanding. We hope that they will all be able to come to visit us during the season.



Check who has organised the fun day. This is just an apology from a company who has allowed someone to book and organise an event whose views most of us would not be comfortable with.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 26, 2014)

treelover said:


> what makes you say that?, looks a legit flyer to me.



when have Antifa described the EDL as neo-fascists? 

what country was the photo taken? 

Why are you so thick?


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2014)

legoland muslim day cancelled and that photo is from elsewhere. antifa haven't been round for years.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 26, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Check who has organised the fun day. This is just an apology from a company who has allowed someone to book and organise an event whose views most of us would not be comfortable with.


 
I can't look now but who organised it?


----------



## Limerick Red (Feb 26, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> when have Antifa described the EDL as neo-fascists?
> 
> what country was the photo taken?
> 
> Why are you so thick?


Photo is from slough


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 26, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> legoland muslim day cancelled and that photo is from elsewhere. antifa haven't been round for years.
> View attachment 49226



The investigation and court case after the attack at the station on the two blood and honour supporters pretty much finished them off


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 26, 2014)

*Haitham al-Haddad .he is one of twenty or so preachers who are under scrutiny from counter terrorism as promoting radical extremism .*


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 26, 2014)

yeah i think you're right on that steps. limerick red is right, most folk who wd be AFA/antifa seem to have gravitated towards AFN.


----------



## Limerick Red (Feb 26, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah i think you're right on that steps. limerick red is right, most folk who wd be AFA/antifa seem to have gravitated towards AFN.


Not much AFA to be fair.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 26, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> Photo is from slough



none the less I stand by my claim that Antifa even when they existed would not have described the EDL as 'neo-fascist' it being a meaningless term.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 26, 2014)

I went to legoland last year and stayed in slough. All the cab drivers were Asian. The neo-fascists would have had a proper trek on their hands if they tried to organise transport locally.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 26, 2014)

Perhaps they will be in disguise?


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 26, 2014)




----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 27, 2014)

some freak built a bespoke lego auswitch as well, just why...


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> Not much AFA to be fair.



there's one or 2 ageing warriors i can tell you!


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 27, 2014)

jakethesnake said:


>


the fuhrer's wearing no trousers


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 27, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Why are you so thick?


just accept he is


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 27, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> It's called a joke ffs.


treelover's something of a jest himself


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 27, 2014)

unbelievable. EDL member moons at the old bailey for rigby murder trial.

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/397583473325896230/

im gobsmacked at this new low.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 27, 2014)

jakethesnake said:


>




I 'ATE YOU, BUTLER!


----------



## bignose1 (Feb 28, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I went to legoland last year and stayed in slough. All the cab drivers were Asian. The neo-fascists would have had a proper trek on their hands if they tried to organise transport locally.


Yeah they'd brick it


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 28, 2014)

he's back and he's even worse!


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 28, 2014)

bignose1 said:
			
		

> Yeah they'd brick it



We should build an opposition.


----------



## Limerick Red (Feb 28, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> We should build an opposition.


But what technic's should be employed?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 28, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> But what technic's should be employed?


We should organise into blocs........ white blocs, blue blocs, red blocs.....and one of those great big, long black blocs


----------



## ddraig (Feb 28, 2014)

1210's obviously!


----------



## bignose1 (Mar 1, 2014)

Yeah....


Kev Scott LTJ said:


> We should organise into blocs........ white blocs, blue blocs, red blocs.....and one of those great big, long black blocs



Whats on the ajenga....?


----------



## Limerick Red (Mar 1, 2014)

bignose1 said:


> Yeah....
> 
> 
> Whats on the ajenga....?


Fuck the ajenga, lets just pop their brickin heads off!


----------



## framed (Mar 1, 2014)

...or knock their blocs off!


----------



## framed (Mar 1, 2014)

ddraig said:


> treelover - genuine question
> if you are reading a blog and taking the time to copy and paste some text here, why oh why oh why can't you paste the url too?
> you could have just made it up or amended it for your own ends



Here's the link to the blog. It's really just a pop back at his utterances, which were conveyed by a cokehead supermodel at the Brits Awards, _"Scotland, please stay with us..."  _I know Bowie is not a fascist, but he certainly appears to have flirted with fascist ideology at one point in his career, even if he was under the influence of chemicals. Feed the world Dave, enjoy your tax-free lifestyle and keep yer hypocritical nose out of other people's business...

*Ground Control To David Bowie…*


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> some freak built a bespoke lego auswitch as well, just why...


Six million Duplos


----------



## framed (Mar 1, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Six million Duplos



You've taken that too far...


----------



## eskdave (Mar 1, 2014)

treelover said:


> Who on earth are these characters?


Who on earth are these characters?


----------



## eskdave (Mar 1, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> It's called a joke ffs.


A few Legoland decapitations would not go amiss-in public-just to see if the stuff can fight back


----------



## eskdave (Mar 1, 2014)

B0B2oo9 said:


> MRDF FAMILY FUN DAY – SUNDAY 9TH MARCH
> 
> The LEGOLAND Windsor Resort prides itself on welcoming everyone to our wonderful attraction, therefore the decision to cancel this private event was incredibly difficult. This outcome comes after discussions with the organisers and local Thames Valley Police and follows the receipt of a number of threatening phone calls, emails and social media posts to the Resort over recent days. These alone have led us to conclude that we can no longer guarantee the happy fun family event which was envisaged or the safety of our guests and employees on that day – which is always our number one priority.
> 
> Sadly it is our belief that deliberate misinformation fuelled by a small, but vociferous group with a clear agenda was designed expressly to achieve just this outcome. We are appalled at what has occurred, and at the fact that the real losers in this are the many families and children who were looking forward to an enjoyable day out at LEGOLAND. We would like to apologise to them and to the organisers, and to thank them for their understanding. We hope that they will all be able to come to visit us during the season.


ok it was ok for the "plastic hoose of your plastic dreams" when young ,things have changed


Pickman's model said:


> the fuhrer's wearing no trousers


Donald Hitler


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 2, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-26404314

*Ex-EDL chief Tommy Robinson has Twitter account suspended*


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 3, 2014)

EDL to now attack the 'IRA!' and 'The EDL, as a strictly peaceful and non-sectarian organisation with both Protestant and Catholic members, abhors terrorism and violence of any kind. '


----------



## framed (Mar 3, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL to now attack the 'IRA!' and 'The EDL, as a strictly peaceful and non-sectarian organisation with both Protestant and Catholic members, abhors terrorism and violence of any kind. '


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 3, 2014)

'peaceful, non-violent and non-sectarian organisation to attack peaceful non-violent non-existent organisation bollocks!'


----------



## _angel_ (Mar 4, 2014)

B0B2oo9 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-26404314
> 
> *Ex-EDL chief Tommy Robinson has Twitter account suspended*


so what?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 4, 2014)

so, so what?
your contributions to this thread are, interesting...


----------



## _angel_ (Mar 4, 2014)

they are irrelevant even more


----------



## ddraig (Mar 4, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> they are irrelevant even more


they?


----------



## _angel_ (Mar 4, 2014)

ddraig said:


> they?


the edl the status or otherwise of a twitter account (anyone can get one suspended).

I get the feeling some here actually want the edl to exist just so they can protest against them, it's weird.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 4, 2014)

yes that is a weird feeling


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 4, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> so what?



youtube links


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 4, 2014)

ddraig said:


> yes that is a weird feeling


----------



## Corax (Mar 4, 2014)

Why do people who don't like this thread read this thread?

Some of the reasons are totally valid (IMO), but I don't really get why you'd not just stop reading it


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 5, 2014)

Corax said:
			
		

> Why do people who don't like this thread read this thread?
> 
> Some of the reasons are totally valid (IMO), but I don't really get why you'd not just stop reading it



Who doesn't like the thread? AFAICT the criticisms have always been about the people posting up endless links to youtube and Facebook with very little actual discussion. But that isn't disliking the thread, it's criticising some of the contributions.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 5, 2014)

I'll take faceache an utube links any day so long as I'm spared the prole-bashing EDL news shite and taffboys 'satire'


----------



## Obnoxiousness (Mar 5, 2014)

When Legoland starts to get threats from right wing activists.... then you know that something is very, very wrong in some people's heads.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 5, 2014)




----------



## Corax (Mar 5, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Who doesn't like the thread? AFAICT the criticisms have always been about the people posting up endless links to youtube and Facebook with very little actual discussion. But that isn't disliking the thread, it's criticising some of the contributions.


Aye, but the thread's been like that forever iyswim. 

I don't object to the objections - they're sometimes entertaining and some of them have actually educated me a bit. It just seems a little masochistic.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 8, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01tdd0f

EDL Girls on Monday night


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Mar 10, 2014)

That was a farce. Documentary my arse.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 10, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> That was a farce. Documentary my arse.



was doing other stuff at same time, but seemed a bit dull rather than a 'farce', what did I miss?


----------



## Corax (Mar 10, 2014)

I wasn't that bothered about BBC 3 being axed before. I'm all for it now though...


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Mar 10, 2014)

Yep. Lots of smug liberals on twitter saying the programme exposed the edl as chavs but if you're one of the white working class people who is tired of being called a chav then it was a free party pol broadcast that might just convince you. Did very little to expose their real politics.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Mar 10, 2014)

On one hand they were showing these women saying how the EDL weren't racist and on the other they were showing EDL thugs shouting "Fookin' Paki" at a demo. The women needed to have been confronted with the evidence but that just didn't happen.

I felt genuinely sorry for the woman who was badly beaten but then apparently got no justice whatsoever. I'd like to have seen more background to the case and what evidence there was... or wasn't.


----------



## Corax (Mar 10, 2014)

Andrew Hertford said:


> On one hand they were showing these women saying how the EDL weren't racist and on the other they were showing EDL thugs shouting "Fookin' Paki" at a demo. The women needed to have been confronted with the evidence but that just didn't happen.
> 
> I felt genuinely sorry for the woman who was badly beaten but then apparently got no justice whatsoever. I'd like to have seen more background to the case and what evidence there was... or wasn't.


Gail Speight. Quite a lot of info online. How reliable it is, is another question though.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Mar 10, 2014)

Corax said:


> Gail Speight. Quite a lot of info online. How reliable it is, is another question though.



Yeah, most info online seems to be on EDL type sites, was there nothing in the mainstream media?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 10, 2014)

WTF was that? Just filming someone who knows nothing learning about something from people who don't really know either.... How do you explain chants?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 11, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> Yep. Lots of smug liberals on twitter saying the programme exposed the edl as chavs but if you're one of the white working class people who is tired of being called a chav then it was a free party pol broadcast that might just convince you. Did very little to expose their real politics.


I suppose they would argue that wasn't the purpose, in predictably tedious Bab fashion.

l saw the tail end as I didn't know it was on, what was all that to do in the pub with the people in scarves / masks?


----------



## Corax (Mar 11, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I suppose they would argue that wasn't the purpose, in predictably tedious Bab fashion.
> 
> l saw the tail end as I didn't know it was on, what was all that to do in the pub with the people in scarves / masks?


UAF or someone trying to 'infiltrate' their assembly pub.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 11, 2014)

Looks like they made themselves, and thus their casue, loko very stupid.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 11, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Looks like they made themselves, and thus their casue, loko very stupid.


who?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 11, 2014)

The people gatecrashing.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 11, 2014)

why?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 11, 2014)

your talking to someone who likened a few smashed bank windows on an anti cuts demo to kristellnacht


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 11, 2014)

Wrong poster, that was Andrew hertford.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 11, 2014)

m6y mistake. this is the ex wishface not the liberal drone.


----------



## eskdave (Mar 11, 2014)

Young these days-so well informed.


----------



## Corax (Mar 11, 2014)

ddraig said:


> why?


Tbf, if they were aiming to either 'infiltrate' them, or keep an eye on them, they weren't very well dressed for it... Bit obvious like. 

And if they were aiming for confrontation then I don't understand why they apparently just went in and sat down at a corner table with a pint. 

Having said that, we only saw some edited footage, so who knows what context was missing.

Or was there a different purpose that I've not twigged maybe?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 11, 2014)

how about trying to make the point that fascists don't get to take over pubs where others are excluded?
(however short live and whether the police made them go there or not)


----------



## Corax (Mar 11, 2014)

ddraig said:


> how about trying to make the point that fascists don't get to take over pubs where others are excluded?
> (however short live and whether the police made them go there or not)


You think that was it? 

Tbh I was inclined to think that they were trying to keep an eye on them, in order to text friends elsewhere to let them know when they made a move, and any info they overhead. In which case they stuck out too much for that to be very successful. But it was probably a spur of the moment thing rather than preplanned in that case I guess.

Eta: Reading back through the post trail - I don't agree they "made their cause look stupid though"


----------



## ddraig (Mar 11, 2014)

Corax said:


> You think that was it?
> 
> Tbh I was inclined to think that they were trying to keep an eye on them, in order to text friends elsewhere to let them know when they made a move, and any info they overhead. In which case they stuck out to much for that to be very successful. But it was probably a spur of the moment thing rather than preplanned in that case I guess.
> 
> Eta: Reading back through the post trail - I don't agree they "made their cause look stupid though"


or that yes


----------



## krink (Mar 11, 2014)

the local edl pages were all really happy with the bbc3 show* and thought it fair and balanced. they even said they were glad they weren't shown as thick chavs. what this says about them and the criticisms of the show from the left is...I'll let someone who isn't fucked off work think about that

*not seen it myself.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Mar 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> your talking to someone who likened a few smashed bank windows on an anti cuts demo to kristellnacht



Entirely appropriate on a thread about political violence and extremism then.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> m6y mistake. this is the ex wishface not the liberal drone.


what the fuck is that meant to mean? If you have a problem with something i've said have the balls to say it clearly. So I changed my nickname - 5 years ago - get over it ffs. I've no idea what the krystallnacht shit is referring to either.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 11, 2014)

ddraig said:


> why?


why what?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 11, 2014)

why did the people who gatecrashed do as you say in post 16291 at the top of this page?
are you loko?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 11, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> what the fuck is that meant to mean? If you have a problem with something i've said have the balls to say it clearly. So I changed my nickname - 5 years ago - get over it ffs. I've no idea what the krystallnacht shit is referring to either.




its an admission that I got you wrong, nothing more. Simmer down or else I'll come round your house and crap on your doorstep. Don't test me here, I've crapped on many a doorstep.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> its an admission that I got you wrong, nothing more. Simmer down or else I'll come round your house and crap on your doorstep. Don't test me here, I've crapped on many a doorstep.



Just so long as you clear up after yourself.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 11, 2014)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Entirely appropriate on a thread about political violence and extremism then.




back in your box you militant liberal freak


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 11, 2014)

ddraig said:


> why did the people who gatecrashed do as you say in post 16291 at the top of this page?
> are you loko?



A little.

They turned up and got into a ruck with the police.

From what I saw they didn't seem to achieve much other than to aggravate the EDL in the pub. That doesn't strike me as particularly positive. The EDL are permanently aggravated. Who would notice the difference?

That's why I asked what they were doing.


----------



## Corax (Mar 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> its an admission that I got you wrong, nothing more. Simmer down or else I'll come round your house and crap on your doorstep. Don't test me here, I've crapped on many a doorstep.


I preferred the doorstepdoostep version before you edited. I thought it was deliberate...


----------



## krink (Mar 12, 2014)

i watched it now, i thought it was the most positive show on the edl yet. if i was edl i'd be very happy with that. i would not be at all surprised if it attracted a few people to join or at least think about it. no politics, no opposition voices (apart from threats against the edl), no detail on why gail speight was attacked (i.e. the months of edl antagonism and attacks carried out by her and her cronies) no examination of the accusations of racism etc. i'm just happy no fucker watches bbc3.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Mar 16, 2014)

Disturbing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-26375545


----------



## Corax (Mar 16, 2014)

krink said:


> i watched it now, i thought it was the most positive show on the edl yet. if i was edl i'd be very happy with that. i would not be at all surprised if it attracted a few people to join or at least think about it. no politics, no opposition voices (apart from threats against the edl), no detail on why gail speight was attacked (i.e. the months of edl antagonism and attacks carried out by her and her cronies) no examination of the accusations of racism etc. i'm just happy no fucker watches bbc3.


I ended up feeling quite sorry for the young lass tbh. Her recruitment reminded me of how people are initiated into cults. She seemed vulnerable and didn't seem to have been encouraged into critical thinking, and was pulled in by the attraction of having a big group of mates who seemed to know lots of stuff that no one else knew.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 16, 2014)

Ah bless, do her critical thinking for her corax, be a dear. Prick.


----------



## Corax (Mar 16, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Ah bless, do her critical thinking for her corax, be a dear. Prick.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 16, 2014)

Scum. Sub human Scum.


----------



## Corax (Mar 16, 2014)

x


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 16, 2014)

Still. At least you can think critically eh?


----------



## Corax (Mar 16, 2014)

You're such a silly


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 17, 2014)

Corax said:


> I ended up feeling quite sorry for the young lass tbh. Her recruitment reminded me of how people are initiated into cults. She seemed vulnerable and didn't seem to have been encouraged into critical thinking, and was pulled in by the attraction of having a big group of mates who seemed to know lots of stuff that no one else knew.


sorry haven't seen the show, was she joining the EDL or the SWP?


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 18, 2014)

Paul Weston is hanging out on Telegraph blogs these days.

Here's a comment he left on Eddie Munster's (Brendan O'Neill) blog.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...ut-that-it-is-firmly-snootily-anti-political/ 


> Paul Weston • 4 hours ago
> Forget about the defenitions of left and right. What does the BBC approve of and disapprove of?
> 
> Approve: Islam, mass immigration, global warming, Political Correctness, European Union, homosexuality, feminism, socialism, progressive education, trades unions, HnH and the UAF, Nelson Mandela, Che Guevara and Fidel Castro, Barack Obama.
> ...


----------



## Corax (Mar 18, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> sorry haven't seen the show, was she joining the EDL or the SWP?


Aye. Same with a billion other organisations (and less formal groupings) too really, without even getting on to the likes of the scientologists.


----------



## krink (Mar 30, 2014)

29.03.14 Millfield, Sunderland. 

Sunderland Defence League (splitters from Sunderland EDL), North East Infidels, Scottish Defence League, English Volunteer Force and the Anti-Islamic Front had 90 (majority outsiders) on their regional demo. 60 locals turned up to officially oppose them mostly organised by North East Anti-Fascists. The locals on the side-lines who I was talking to were very unimpressed by the far-right. The anti-islamic front group were arrested before the demo started - all 6 of them

Newcastle in May should be interesting.


----------



## juice_terry (Mar 30, 2014)




----------



## keybored (Mar 31, 2014)

juice_terry said:


>



What soft southerner decided it was necessary to add subtitles? YouTube does a perfectly good job if you turn on captions.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Mar 31, 2014)

Anybody know anything about the planned demo in Rotherham on 10th May? Hoping for a shit turn out but who knows...


----------



## laptop (Mar 31, 2014)

keybored said:


> What soft southerner decided it was necessary to add subtitles? YouTube does a perfectly good job if you turn on captions.



Bugger subtitles, I want a _translation _of that


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 31, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Anybody know anything about the planned demo in Rotherham on 10th May? Hoping for a shit turn out but who knows...


would you be expecting any other kind?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Mar 31, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> would you be expecting any other kind?


A turn out of shites?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Apr 1, 2014)

Very droll, both of you.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 8, 2014)

Just found something that could either be a pleasant diversion from trainspotting the EDL or eventually a replacement for it :

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/colin-cortbus/nazis-now-on-campus_b_4866702.html


----------



## Limerick Red (Apr 8, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Just found something that could either be a pleasant diversion from trainspotting the EDL or eventually a replacement for it :
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/colin-cortbus/nazis-now-on-campus_b_4866702.html


Was hoping people would not pick up on this lot, they are about 6 teenagers, with a small amount of nf crossover. Who turn up to random places,take a photo and write a press release.
Some of the stuff they are writing is pretty good, I.e well written,different perspective from the usual suspects on the far right, however about 15 years out of date ( autonomous nationalist stuff).
They claimed to have covered cable street in NA stickers, london anti fascists say only 1 was found.
Whole load of bluster for about 6 weens.


----------



## Blagsta (Apr 8, 2014)

Yeah, there's a West Midlands chapter, consists of 2 people as far as I can tell.


----------



## Jeremy Vile (Apr 8, 2014)

I saw a twitter post the other day on them from another nazi that was denouncing them as a "state honey-trap." 
Are they really students? Or just idiots gate crashing onto campus pretending to be?


----------



## Limerick Red (Apr 8, 2014)

Really students... Think Britain first are much more state honey trap candidates than these chiselers.


----------



## treelover (Apr 11, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> Was hoping people would not pick up on this lot, they are about 6 teenagers, with a small amount of nf crossover. Who turn up to random places,take a photo and write a press release.
> Some of the stuff they are writing is pretty good, I.e well written,different perspective from the usual suspects on the far right, however about 15 years out of date ( autonomous nationalist stuff).
> They claimed to have covered cable street in NA stickers, london anti fascists say only 1 was found.
> Whole load of bluster for about 6 weens.



In the mid 90's, as a Student Union Sab part of my (unsaid) role was to 'monitor' far right activity on my largely humanities based campus: the amount of Nazi, racist, homophobic graffiti in the toilets was incredible, some was very childish, but some was very serious and informed, it wasn't taken lightly. We also received a missive from C18, the SWP wanted to march around town, saner heads prevailed.


btw, in Hungary, the Nazis really are on the campus, lots of them, educated, erudite, affluent, my Jewish friend did not tell people she was so when she was studying in Budapest.


----------



## treelover (Apr 11, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> Was hoping people would not pick up on this lot, they are about 6 teenagers, with a small amount of nf crossover. Who turn up to random places,take a photo and write a press release.
> Some of the stuff they are writing is pretty good, I.e well written,different perspective from the usual suspects on the far right, however about 15 years out of date ( autonomous nationalist stuff).
> They claimed to have covered cable street in NA stickers, london anti fascists say only 1 was found.
> Whole load of bluster for about 6 weens.



It was a protest against the Prof!


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 11, 2014)

treelover said:


> In the mid 90's, as a Student Union Sab part of my (unsaid) role was to 'monitor' far right activity on my largely humanities based campus: the amount of Nazi, racist, homophobic graffiti in the toilets was incredible, some was very childish, but some was very serious and informed, it wasn't taken lightly.



You'd see racist stuff in the bogs of a lot of student pubs in Leeds years ago (including NF symbols), but I'm not sure if it was genuine fascists (of which there are a few about, but this was in the days before Collett brought it on campus) or just primitive trolling by other students/locals.  Same thing really as when there were ANL demos anywhere, you'd get a few passing drunkards doing nazi salutes just to get a rise out of people.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 11, 2014)

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/racist-thug-more-bargained-benwell-6949673

racist thug battered with wooden club, if you fancy a laugh


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 11, 2014)

yeah, NA are a couple of kids arsing about. they are trying to recruit on shirtfront who reckon they are plod bait.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 11, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/racist-thug-more-bargained-benwell-6949673
> 
> racist thug battered with wooden club, if you fancy a laugh



and yet again, they cannot admit to their politics and blame something else. ' He does not class himself as racist and would not usually do that. Drink is his problem, he had far too much.'


----------



## Fingers (Apr 11, 2014)

I will up you with a 'bellend blowing his hand off' whilst trying to construct a home made 'crow scarer'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ose-hand-after-explosion-at-parents-home.html


----------



## laptop (Apr 12, 2014)

Fingers said:


> I will up you with a 'bellend blowing his hand off' whilst trying to construct a home made 'crow scarer'
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ose-hand-after-explosion-at-parents-home.html



And their website decides with this to plug:


How to protect your soft fruit from birds  13 Jul 2010


----------



## Fingers (Apr 12, 2014)

I am going to up it further

German Neo-Nazi Party Rocked by Interracial Porn and Penis Cake Scandals

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_worl...interracial_porn_and_penis_cake_scandals.html


----------



## laptop (Apr 12, 2014)

Fingers said:


> German Neo-Nazi Party Rocked by Interracial Porn and Penis Cake Scandals
> 
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_worl...interracial_porn_and_penis_cake_scandals.html




_Die Peniskuchen-Affäre_


----------



## jakethesnake (Apr 12, 2014)

I don't see what's wrong about a penis shaped cake  (so long as it's not for a children's party, obv).


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 12, 2014)

'30' (so they claim) far right attacked a UAF stall in manchester. new outfit destined for obscurity Northern Front. other NF hopelessly split in half.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 12, 2014)

jakethesnake said:


> I don't see what's wrong about a penis shaped cake  (so long as it's not for a children's party, obv).


----------



## krink (Apr 13, 2014)

some pics to have a browse through, feel free to put names to any of them in the flickr comments

can someone let me know you can see the pics - should be about 190 in total - thanks


----------



## ddraig (Apr 13, 2014)

yeah can see em


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 18, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Just found something that could either be a pleasant diversion from trainspotting the EDL or eventually a replacement for it :
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/colin-cortbus/nazis-now-on-campus_b_4866702.html



Just took down a lonely National Action sticker in Cambridge whilst on a day trip.


----------



## kraepelin (Apr 19, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> the edl the status or otherwise of a twitter account (anyone can get one suspended).
> 
> I get the feeling some here actually want the edl to exist just so they can protest against them, it's weird.



I kind of know where your coming from. Living out a the anti fascist fantasy they missed by being born too late. But that video of the group of guys attacking a lone anti fascist guy with his kid was shocking.

Not on here but some of the hate of the EDL is really class hate given legitimacy, often by people who live in parts of the country without any real amount of black people. Cant help but think if they lived in hackney on a bad estate their hate would include the poor black residence


----------



## treelover (Apr 19, 2014)

bang on, its also a bit vicarious, just look at how many view these posts, they are certainly not all activists of various kinds

not saying they shouldn't look at them, just an observation.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 21, 2014)

Latest 'Malatesta' on March For England 2014!
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/stop-mfe-2014/


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 21, 2014)

kraepelin said:
			
		

> Not on here but some of the hate of the EDL is really class hate given legitimacy



It happens on here too, sadly.


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 21, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> Latest 'Malatesta' on March For England 2014!
> http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/stop-mfe-2014/


Back again?
 And now you are loving up to the jihadists.


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 21, 2014)

kraepelin said:


> I kind of know where your coming from. Living out a the anti fascist fantasy they missed by being born too late. But that video of the group of guys attacking a lone anti fascist guy with his kid was shocking.
> 
> Not on here but some of the hate of the EDL is really class hate given legitimacy, often by people who live in parts of the country without any real amount of black people. Cant help but think if they lived in hackney on a bad estate their hate would include the poor black residence


And malatesta32 reappears


----------



## treelover (Apr 21, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> Back again?
> And now you are loving up to the jihadists.





barney_pig said:


> Back again?
> And now you are loving up to the jihadists.




Strong stuff, where?

I notice no one has posted about the possible infiltration of various Birmingham Schools by Wahibi's, might be bollocks, but the default position on left sites seems to be benefit of the doubt, I wonder if it was the far right would they be as sanguine.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 21, 2014)

treelover said:


> Strong stuff, where?
> 
> I notice no one has posted about the possible infiltration of various Birmingham Schools by Wahibi's, might be bollocks, but the default position on left sites seems to be benefit of the doubt, I wonder if it was the far right would they be as sanguine.


have you posted about it?


----------



## treelover (Apr 21, 2014)

No, because as usual some posters would shoot the messenger


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 21, 2014)

I haven't posted about that or anything which has been on the news this week. Sorry. 

I think it's entirely plausible though. This is the kind of thing you get when the state legitimises faith schools. See also creationist loons. 

I favour universal secular comprehensive schools with forced bussing for rich people who try to avoid them. 

The only place for religion in schools should be in comparative "what do different people believe?" lessons which should also include ethics , philosophy and politics. 

It seems pretty open and shut to me?


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 22, 2014)

treelover said:


> Strong stuff, where?
> 
> I notice no one has posted about the possible infiltration of various Birmingham Schools by Wahibi's, might be bollocks, but the default position on left sites seems to be benefit of the doubt, I wonder if it was the far right would they be as sanguine.


In the content free link post I quote


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I haven't posted about that or anything which has been on the news this week. Sorry.
> 
> I think it's entirely plausible though. This is the kind of thing you get when the state legitimises faith schools. See also creationist loons.
> 
> ...




what happens if the bastards demand the right to home school?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> what happens if the bastards demand the right to home school?


 
Well no system is perfect. I think I'd introduce disincentives for that (tax, inspections, bureaucracy). And severe punishments for people who home schooled that did not stick to the national curriculum.

Which seems reasonable given that religious indoctrination and deliberately shit education amounts to child abuse.

Or maybe I'd just ban home schooling, I mean WTF.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well no system is perfect. I think I'd introduce disincentives for that (tax, inspections, bureaucracy). And severe punishments for people who home schooled that did not stick to the national curriculum.
> 
> Which seems reasonable given that religious indoctrination and deliberately shit education amounts to child abuse.
> 
> Or maybe I'd just ban home schooling, I mean WTF.




I've never met a normal home schooled kid.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 25, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> And malatesta32 reappears



ah, my6 first stalker. or is it storker?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> No, because as usual some posters would shoot the messenger


when the messenger fucks up the message it's common practice to shoot her/him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> Strong stuff, where?
> 
> I notice no one has posted about the possible infiltration of various Birmingham Schools by Wahibi's, might be bollocks, but the default position on left sites seems to be benefit of the doubt, I wonder if it was the far right would they be as sanguine.


which left sites are you talking about?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 25, 2014)

krink said:


> some pics to have a browse through, feel free to put names to any of them in the flickr comments
> 
> can someone let me know you can see the pics - should be about 190 in total - thanks


i like the way they're standing in front of the french connection shop


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 25, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> ah, my6 first stalker. or is it storker?


do you think muslims against crusades are anti fascist?


----------



## Corax (Apr 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> No, because as usual some posters would shoot the messenger


http://bit.ly/1hwQYQs


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> i like the way they're standing in front of the french connection shop




one blokes arm is obscuring the word 'vichy'


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Apr 26, 2014)

Need a hug tonight. Mrs bb's sister finally came out on fb as bnper tonight. Told her I'd see her in Brighton on Sundy and that she should be bottled. My wife, Michelle, is distraught. She's a Tory but hates extremes, mine included.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Apr 26, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> Need a hug tonight.



Fuck off you rape apologist gobshite swappie prick.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Apr 26, 2014)

Ok fucked off


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 26, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> Need a hug tonight. Mrs bb's sister finally came out on fb as bnper tonight. Told her I'd see her in Brighton on Sundy and that she should be bottled. My wife, Michelle, is distraught. She's a Tory but hates extremes, mine included.


Tell her she is a bit behind the times, coming out as BNP was all the rage back in what? 04? But now it seems a bit old hat...


----------



## emanymton (Apr 26, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> Need a hug tonight. Mrs bb's sister finally came out on fb as bnper tonight. Told her I'd see her in Brighton on Sundy and that she should be bottled. My wife, Michelle, is distraught. She's a Tory but hates extremes, mine included.


No chance she can be reasoned with? No everyone who supports the BNP is necessarily an out and out racist or fascist. Although I suppose those that aren't are much fewer in number than a few years ago. 
I'd ignore Delroy, he obviously had his own issues last night.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 26, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> do you think muslims against crusades are anti fascist?


i dont give a fuck.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2014)

emanymton said:


> No chance she can be reasoned with? No everyone who supports the BNP is necessarily an out and out racist or fascist. Although I suppose those that aren't are much fewer in number than a few years ago.
> I'd ignore Delroy, he obviously had his own issues last night.


seems bb's notion of reasoning with her was threstening to bottle her. this cogent argument might not have worked.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 26, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> seems bb's notion of reasoning with her was threstening to bottle her. this cogent argument might not have worked.


Well I was hoping he might of calmed down a bit. Although he might have lost any possibility of reasoned argument at that point, but to be fair my first response would probably have been about as polite.


----------



## redcogs (Apr 26, 2014)

I find it a bit odd that an swp person could marry a Conservative supporter and not expect a degree of turbulent weather.  Is that really what's happened here?

On the BNP enthusiastic sister in law - i had to dump an aunty of mine for the lesser offence of being a casual but insistent racist who couldn't learn how to keep her views internal in my company.  She was asked to leave our house 20 years ago, and there has been no contact since, nor will there be.  So, i understand the BB reaction.


----------



## Thunderfist (Apr 26, 2014)

With the March for England about to descend on Brighton SchNEWS have produced a field guide to the far-right

http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/FIELD-GUIDE-TO-THE-FAR-RIGHT/


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 26, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> what happens if the bastards demand the right to home school?



Hopefully this won't derail the thread, but I'll just pop in to mention that here in the land of Deutsch, homeschooling is illegal, specifically so that the far right won't be able to groom their kids to put on the brown shirt.

As for your point about not meeting normal homeschooled people, this American blog contains some pretty tragic tales of damage:

http://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> i dont give a fuck.



Well given that Islamism is Nationalist in outlook you fucking should.


----------



## laptop (Apr 26, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Islamism is Nationalist in outlook



What on earth are you on (about)?


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

laptop said:


> What on earth are you on (about)?



That Islamism shares similarities with Nationalism. Swap non-believer for non-white etc etc.


----------



## laptop (Apr 26, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> That Islamism shares similarities with Nationalism. Swap non-believer for non-white etc etc.



Chauvinist, yes.

Militantly anti-nationalist, though.

Hamas were thrown out of the Muslim Brotherhood for taking a nationalist line, for example.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

laptop said:


> Chauvinist, yes.
> 
> Militantly anti-nationalist, though.
> 
> Hamas were thrown out of the Muslim Brotherhood for taking a nationalist line, for example.



Okay, it's a leap, but I mean taking 'Islam' as being the nation, rather than an actual nation, as the basis of the 'nationalism'.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

Politics of identity.


----------



## laptop (Apr 26, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Okay, it's a leap, but I mean taking 'Islam' as being the nation, rather than an actual nation, as the basis of the 'nationalism'.



It's not just a leap, it's turning everything on its head - unless you're just using "nationalist" as a term of abuse, which is to deprive the word of all meaning and render conversation beige*.


* Here "beige" means whatever I pay it to mean, and I'm not telling.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

laptop said:


> It's not just a leap, it's turning everything on its head - unless you're just using "nationalist" as a term of abuse, which is to deprive the word of all meaning and render conversation beige*.
> 
> 
> * Here "beige" means whatever I pay it to mean, and I'm not telling.



But the two are based upon identity. One being national/cultural and the other being religious/cultural. And an extreme view of people who fall outside of that identity. They're definitely on the fascist spectrum imo.


----------



## laptop (Apr 26, 2014)

So you are just using words as wooly terms of abuse.

The _*whole point*_ of Islamism is opposition to the very concept of nation-states. 

That distinguishes it from other Islamic movements.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

laptop said:
			
		

> So you are just using words as wooly terms of abuse.
> 
> The whole point of Islamism is opposition to the very concept of nation-states.
> 
> That distinguishes it from other Islamic movements.



So being against the concept of nation states and sharing attributes with nationalists such as the BNP is mutually exclusive?


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 26, 2014)

Islamism is an ultra authoritarian, irrationalist, anti democratic, misogynistic, range of movements. There are many reasons why anti fascists should give a fuck about it, but nationalism isn't one of them.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

Maybe it isn't racist to hate jews on the grounds of Islamism then.

There pretty anti homosexual too. It ticks plenty of boxes from where I'm sitting.


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 26, 2014)

Islamist hatred of Jews is undoubtedly racist. The bigotry of Islamism has many parallels with the bigotry of fascism, included pathological hatred of socialism. Just without the nationalism


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 26, 2014)

Though that's not entirely true either, they believe in a pan national khalifa, a unified state of all believers under Godly law.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

barney_pig said:
			
		

> Islamist hatred of Jews is undoubtedly racist. The bigotry of Islamism has many parallels with the bigotry of fascism, included pathological hatred of socialism. Just without the nationalism



If you read back, I said they had a nationalist outlook or 'shared attributes' rather than calling them actual nationalists. Anyway, as you say it's enough for a supposed anti fascist to question sharing a platform with.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 26, 2014)

barney_pig said:
			
		

> Though that's not entirely true either, they believe in a pan national khalifa, a unified state of all believers under Godly law.



Which was Hitler wanted for Europe replacing the religious element with a racial one was it not?


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 26, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Which was Hitler wanted for Europe replacing the religious element with a racial one was it not?


Some of his henchmen did, and it remains a important strand in euro fascist ideology, but hitler had no truck with anything which might challenge german hegemony.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 27, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Well given that Islamism is Nationalist in outlook you fucking should.



check twitter
#penis.


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 27, 2014)

Is this the way it's going to be now maletesta? Anyone pulls you on your content free links or offensive bollocks and you reply with abuse?


----------



## treelover (Apr 27, 2014)

He has had an easy ride on here, a lack of scrutiny, much more than anyone else.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 27, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> With the March for England about to descend on Brighton SchNEWS have produced a field guide to the far-right
> 
> http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/FIELD-GUIDE-TO-THE-FAR-RIGHT/



Sneery public school shit. Embarrassing.


----------



## gamerunknown (Apr 28, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I've never met a normal home schooled kid.



I was briefly homeschooled (in transition between two secondary schools). I know, more evidence against the practice - but there are good reasons to oppose limiting home schooling. The most obvious is that the state is not a neutral arbiter. Any possibilities for perpetuating capitalism will be utilised, including through the curricula. Another minor point is that it limited opportunities for altering relations to education - when a failing school was shut down in the 70s, the parents occupied it and ran it cooperatively for several years before receiving council funding. Such provisions would exclude Dalton schools and the Cooper Union.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 28, 2014)

yes the islamists all want to live in islam. it is a global, proseltysing form of religion and nationalism is antithetical to that.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 28, 2014)

barney_pig said:


> Is this the way it's going to be now maletesta? Anyone pulls you on your content free links or offensive bollocks and you reply with abuse?


go away fuckbugle.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2014)

I must be way of beam- I thought that most extremist muslims wanted a global caliphate? 

goddamit my shits uncoordinated today


----------



## laptop (Apr 29, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I must be way of beam- I thought that most extremist muslims wanted a global caliphate?



Except those backed by the Saudi monarchy, who may well _talk_ about the _Umma_ (the abstract notion of global Islam) but certainly won't be doing anything to undermine the, er, Saudi nation-state.

And they're at least as dangerous, authoritarian, racist, _etc_ as the Islamists. With whom they are effectively at war in several places.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 29, 2014)

Syria has to be the most confusing with who is on the side of who compared with who they generally disagree with. Someone needs to draw one of those handy flow charts that you see in the tabloids regarding which celeb shagged who.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (May 1, 2014)

emanymton said:


> No chance she can be reasoned with? No everyone who supports the BNP is necessarily an out and out racist or fascist. Although I suppose those that aren't are much fewer in number than a few years ago.
> I'd ignore Delroy, he obviously had his own issues last night.


It's a long story but no not really. 3 years ago she started with the fascist post sharing on FB. And I mean all the tiny groups, the Infidels, the EVF, the ED, Britain First. And whenever I confronted her or her brother (who also shared their stuff but actually posted on the edl groups pages himself so I just gave up on him) she would say it was all a misunderstanding,, she didn't realise who they were, didn't share their extreme views etc. For 2 years I argued patiently with her over it then it came to a head after Lee Rigby when she was sharing the openly racist repatriate them all now shit. Eventually she calmed down enough to sort of apologise to a young woman friend of mine who is Muslim and had had abuse after Rigby's death. Nobody should be abused just because of their religion she told her. Then 7 days later she was sharing Britain First stuff again about the Burkha! So I told her then I couldn't stomach it anymore and defriended her. Minor action as that sounds it caused ructions in the family and my mrs had to act as go between for months 

It all came to a head again last week when I saw through my son's FB page that she was back to sharing BF stuff. And to make it worse was accompanying it with comments like "Patriotism is NO CRIME" (the caps are her's not mine, she shouts, a lot) That was St George's Day. I said I didn't want my son exposed to criminals like BF through his auntie and it all went ballistic from there. She took great offence at me suggesting she was exposing her nephew to criminals (I might also have said child abusers, I wasn't pulling any punches). Her answer on Friday was to go for the full bnp angle. Oddly she seems to think saying bnp is worse than saying BF. Then on Saturday she was back to it was all a mistake line and she'd never knowingly support the bnp. Which would have been more convincing if she didn't 24 hours later stick another BF post under my son's nose.Any way I declared myself a nazi appeaser free zone on Saturday, banned her from my house while I'm at home. Mrs BB is totally fine with me on that and thinks her sister is making a mistake, but obviously she's still her sister and she won't be cutting her off. The trick now is for me to avoid inflaming the family row even more without backing down.

To make matters worse I've seen three other friends of mine with what I thought were robust Tory views but no worse, share BF stuff this last week. Short of defriending them all I've opted for the "come on guys, these pricks upset Rigby's family with their antics in the elections in Wales" line which is having mixed results convincing them to pack the nazi posts in. It's like a fucking epidemic.


----------



## Corax (May 1, 2014)

bolshiebhoy said:


> It's a long story but no not really. 3 years ago she started with the fascist post sharing on FB. And I mean all the tiny groups, the Infidels, the EVF, the ED, Britain First. And whenever I confronted her or her brother (who also shared their stuff but actually posted on the edl groups pages himself so I just gave up on him) she would say it was all a misunderstanding,, she didn't realise who they were, didn't share their extreme views etc. For 2 years I argued patiently with her over it then it came to a head after Lee Rigby when she was sharing the openly racist repatriate them all now shit. Eventually she calmed down enough to sort of apologise to a young woman friend of mine who is Muslim and had had abuse after Rigby's death. Nobody should be abused just because of their religion she told her. Then 7 days later she was sharing Britain First stuff again about the Burkha! So I told her then I couldn't stomach it anymore and defriended her. Minor action as that sounds it caused ructions in the family and my mrs had to act as go between for months
> 
> It all came to a head again last week when I saw through my son's FB page that she was back to sharing BF stuff. And to make it worse was accompanying it with comments like "Patriotism is NO CRIME" (the caps are her's not mine, she shouts, a lot) That was St George's Day. I said I didn't want my son exposed to criminals like BF through his auntie and it all went ballistic from there. She took great offence at me suggesting she was exposing her nephew to criminals (I might also have said child abusers, I wasn't pulling any punches). Her answer on Friday was to go for the full bnp angle. Oddly she seems to think saying bnp is worse than saying BF. Then on Saturday she was back to it was all a mistake line and she'd never knowingly support the bnp. Which would have been more convincing if she didn't 24 hours later stick another BF post under my son's nose.Any way I declared myself a nazi appeaser free zone on Saturday, banned her from my house while I'm at home. Mrs BB is totally fine with me on that and thinks her sister is making a mistake, but obviously she's still her sister and she won't be cutting her off. The trick now is for me to avoid inflaming the family row even more without backing down.
> 
> To make matters worse I've seen three other friends of mine with what I thought were robust Tory views but no worse, share BF stuff this last week. Short of defriending them all I've opted for the "come on guys, these pricks upset Rigby's family with their antics in the elections in Wales" line which is having mixed results convincing them to pack the nazi posts in. It's like a fucking epidemic.


Sounds pretty crap any which way 

I don't think any have any family or friends that would be sucked in by that shit. But your story makes me glad I don't do Fb nonetheless.


----------



## Horas (May 1, 2014)

out of curiosity, wtf happened to tommy robinson? is he still in prison/or working with Quilliam foundation? and what happened to the other guy, the Sikh EDL guy Guramit Singh?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 2, 2014)

robinson is in jail for the next 6 months at least and a lot of his former comrade distrust him. guramit got 6 years for armed robbery after 'going on the lam' for a wee while.


----------



## Red Storm (May 2, 2014)

BNP twitter has been hacked but it doesn't look like they've realised yet.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 2, 2014)

Apols if we've had this, but it is well giggles imo

http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/FIELD-GUIDE-TO-THE-FAR-RIGHT/


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

We have had it. It's rubbish. Looks rather familiar too.


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2014)

Red Storm said:


> BNP twitter has been hacked but it doesn't look like they've realised yet.


You seen the new (and banned) BNP election video?

It's creepy as fuck.

I'm curious to know who the vox-pops are at the end too.  One appears to be a soldier, and one a vicar...


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2014)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Apols if we've had this, but it is well giggles imo
> 
> http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/FIELD-GUIDE-TO-THE-FAR-RIGHT/


Oooh, I dunno, maybe on the last bloody page?

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/edl-watch.262722/page-547#post-13097811


----------



## krink (May 2, 2014)

Corax said:


> Sounds pretty crap any which way
> 
> I don't think any have any family or friends that would be sucked in by that shit. But your story makes me glad I don't do Fb nonetheless.



apart from the half a dozen 'serious' politicals and my closest pals on my FB list, i would say almost everyone else, if asked, would be in favour of those BF style opinions. Vast majority of my family* would too. I don't really see any political stuff from those people very often but if the odd post does get made it's always some EDL/BF/BNP/NF re-post. Depressing but it keeps me in check - I know some people who are ONLY friends with other lefty/anarchos and their impression of the world around them is seriously skewed. It's the same at work, the non-racist, non-benefit blamers are in a tiny tiny minority of about 2%. and people wonder why i'm always miserable-looking haha.

*not my wife and kids though.


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2014)

krink said:


> apart from the half a dozen 'serious' politicals and my closest pals on my FB list, i would say almost everyone else, if asked, would be in favour of those BF style opinions. Vast majority of my family* would too. I don't really see any political stuff from those people very often but if the odd post does get made it's always some EDL/BF/BNP/NF re-post. Depressing but it keeps me in check - I know some people who are ONLY friends with other lefty/anarchos and their impression of the world around them is seriously skewed. It's the same at work, the non-racist, non-benefit blamers are in a tiny tiny minority of about 2%. and people wonder why i'm always miserable-looking haha.
> 
> *not my wife and kids though.


I've had plenty of friends/acquaintances that would fit that in the past, but none that I know of now. Not through any deliberate split over political differences or anything, just the way life's turned out. One of my exes was part of a very right wing, EDL-type social group on the old Devonport estate before it was demolished, and the conversations we all had together will always stay in my memory. I was pretty naive at the time and I learnt a lot from them tbh. I hope I managed to bust a few myths in return, and maybe even convince a couple to redirect their anger. 

I've plenty that are more mainstream right though - eg think that austerity is unfortunate but necessary and so on. I expect some of my family have voted tory in the past. Most of them get their information solely from the mainstream press so some probably will again.  

I think that kind of thing is easier to challenge without causing family (or social group) schisms than something like racism though. I'm not sure how I'd handle that - probably not well tbh, and I doubt it would end well for anyone.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 2, 2014)

Corax said:


> One appears to be a soldier, and one a vicar...



not hard to dress up as either! any links?


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> not hard to dress up as either! any links?


Nope.  That's what I'm wondering - whether it's fancy dress or genuine.


----------



## Horas (May 2, 2014)

who's the new twat in the edl, i mean the new leader tiny Tim Ablitt.  whats his story? does he have a far right background, football hooligan?


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> not hard to dress up as either! any links?





Corax said:


> Nope.  That's what I'm wondering - whether it's fancy dress or genuine.


No credits on the vid, so best chance of finding out would be their online forum I'd guess. I assume they've got one - I've never looked though and I'm guessing it's members only?


----------



## tony.c (May 2, 2014)

Corax said:


> You seen the new (and banned) BNP election video?
> It's creepy as fuck.
> I'm curious to know who the vox-pops are at the end too.  One appears to be a soldier, and one a vicar...


 
I saw the election broadcast and I think the 'vicar' was their fake vicar Robert West, but with a beard.
Robert West was a Tory councillor in Lincolnshire, but was suspended from the Conservative Party in 2006 for addressing a BNP meeting. He claims to be entitled to be called 'Reverend' as he is an 'Ordained Elder' of the non-existant 'Apostolic Church of Wales'. The real Apostolic Church in the United Kingdom denies all knowledge of him. He was a BNP  East Midlands MEP candidate in the 2009 European elections.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 2, 2014)

Horas said:


> who's the new twat in the edl, i mean the new leader tiny Tim Ablitt.  whats his story? does he have a far right background, football hooligan?



he's pretty much no one. he was arrested over a mosque arson attempt but it fell through. the EDL hoody money and 'legal fees' were 'resting in his account. when mr tommy and KKKev jacked it in there was only Hel Gower and a few other ROs. Albitt was the only sad case to go for a toxic position with an ailing org.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 2, 2014)

gone.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> he's pretty much no one. he was arrested over a mosque arson attempt but it fell through. the EDL hoody money and 'legal fees' were 'resting in his account. when mr tommy and KKKev jacked it in there was only Hel Gower and a few other ROs. Albitt was the only sad case to go for a toxic position with an ailing org.


The money claims  - what have you to support them? If you have some, why haven't you published it?


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> snip


That's just the creepy video I'm referring to Mal, why are you posting it up as a reply to my question?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> The money claims  - what have you to support them? If you have some, why haven't you published it?



http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider/edl-name-a-new-leader-same-old-cash-queries-remain-3124
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/10/edl-appoints-tim-ablitt-as-new-chairman_n_4078152.html
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/347431/New-EDL-boss-was-nicked-over-bomb-plot
etc ...


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

So, no is the answer. Nothing. This is getting pretty shit now.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 3, 2014)

read again britches undone! ablitt was in charge of merchandise money. the money for legal fees, walky talkies etc is unaccounted for. robinsons account was frozen due to legal difficulty. ablitt has the acount. this is getting pretty shit now.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 4, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> We have had it. It's rubbish. Looks rather familiar too.


Where have you seen it before then?


----------



## Thunderfist (May 4, 2014)

weepiper said:


> Sneery public school shit. Embarrassing.


Public school? How'd you work that out? Well wide of the mark btw.


----------



## butchersapron (May 4, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> Where have you seen it before then?


I wasn't saying that i'd seen it before - as i haven't. I was saying it's style seemed rather familiar to me - because it does. It reminds me of the stuff that maletesta posts on here and his site.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 4, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I wasn't saying that i'd seen it before - as i haven't. I was saying it's style seemed rather familiar to me - because it does. It reminds me of the stuff that maletesta posts on here and his site.


It's not Malatesta's - he's nothing to do with SchNEWs


----------



## butchersapron (May 4, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> It's not Malatesta's - he's nothing to do with SchNEWs


I didn't say that he wrote it - nor did i say that he is part of schnews. I said it's style seems familiar to me, because it does.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 4, 2014)

Fair if slightly irrelevant observation then I suppose.


----------



## bignose1 (May 5, 2014)

The soldier is Peter Molloy. And again as with the vicar a fraud.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 5, 2014)

love schnews tho.


----------



## tony.c (May 5, 2014)

bignose1 said:


> The soldier is Peter Molloy. And again as with the vicar a fraud.


Peter Molloy is a former soldier, but soldiers on ARRSE, the Army Rumour Service forum, don't seem to think much of him.
http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/scaley-by-pete-molloy-and-the-bnp.132733/


----------



## Dogsauce (May 5, 2014)

You'll notice the fake vicar is just pretending to open or lock the church door, it isn't his church, he hasn't got a real key.

The whole thing is just plain weird.


----------



## Jeremy Vile (May 5, 2014)

I thought it was Harry Enfield.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (May 6, 2014)

bignose1 said:


> The soldier is Peter Molloy. And again as with the vicar a fraud.


And I think the back of the head standing to the right might be one of the Walkers.....

At least they are using 'British workers" for their adverts, unlike niggle forage!


----------



## sim667 (May 8, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I've never met a normal home schooled kid.



By "not normal" do you mean they're capable of independent thought?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2014)

no I mean they are maladjusted, badly socialised wierdos


----------



## tony.c (May 8, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> You'll notice the fake vicar is just pretending to open or lock the church door, it isn't his church, he hasn't got a real key.


Perhaps he's trying to break in.


----------



## bignose1 (May 9, 2014)

tony.c said:


> Peter Molloy is a former soldier, but soldiers on ARRSE, the Army Rumour Service forum, don't seem to think much of him.
> http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threads/scaley-by-pete-molloy-and-the-bnp.132733/


Yeah he was a soldier but the medals and all his bullshit about his service is fake.


----------



## Corax (May 9, 2014)

bignose1 said:


> Yeah he was a soldier but the medals and all his bullshit about his service is fake.


Can't you be prosecuted for wearing medals you're not entitled to? 

Not that I think he should be - that'd be a fucking awful idea and just provide more of a platform. Just thought I recalled reading somewhere that it was an offence.


----------



## tony.c (May 9, 2014)

Corax said:


> Can't you be prosecuted for wearing medals you're not entitled to?
> Not that I think he should be - that'd be a fucking awful idea and just provide more of a platform. Just thought I recalled reading somewhere that it was an offence.


Is it illegal to wear medals you weren't awarded?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8454715.stm


----------



## malatesta32 (May 9, 2014)

I believe that the correct military term for wearing medals you did not earn, or uniforms from regiments you did not serve with, is a Walt.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 9, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> I believe that the correct military term for wearing medals you did not earn, or uniforms from regiments you did not serve with, is a Walt.



A 'bullshitting bastard' being another


----------



## Corax (May 9, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> I believe that the correct military term for wearing medals you did not earn, or uniforms from regiments you did not serve with, is a Walt.


Seems to be how he's been labeled by his brothers in arms anyway... 

To be fair though, they're probably just a bunch of traitorous communists who've been brainwashed by the Jews NWO.


----------



## J Ed (May 10, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> i dont give a fuck.



You are pathetic.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 10, 2014)

J Ed said:


> You are pathetic.


you are!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 10, 2014)

'And now you are loving up to the jihadists.'  - wronger 
'do you think muslims against crusades are anti fascist?' ... 
'well given that Islamism is Nationalist in outlook you fucking should.' and wronger


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (May 10, 2014)

tony.c said:


> Is it illegal to wear medals you weren't awarded?
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8454715.stm



I'll wager they are not medals at all but made up ones that came with a panini collection magazine...... Y'know the ones, £4.99 for the first issue, builds into a collection after 3 years of full price...


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 10, 2014)

So the Rotherham demo today looked big. About 500 I reckon. And fairly disciplined - no arrests as far as I know (at the demo at least) and lots of stewards who stopped them from attacking the police/throwing things effectively. I actually heard snippets of their speeches for a change as well - which included grievances against social services and tuition fees, as well as the usual sharia law bollocks.

Our side were a fucking embarrassment. On one side the usual UAF frenzy (complete with a Labour councillor claiming there were "no problems in Rotherham" and someone else calling for "unity among people of all classes"), on the other the rather sullen AFN types chanting in Spanish. I hate these demo's but I consider it a point of pride to get to them when they're on my home turf. I don't really know why I bothered today. At most we numbered 150, and we were very divided - it was obvious half the anti-fash there hated UAF.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 10, 2014)

Oh, and it sounds like some people got beat up pretty badly in The Howard in Sheffield by EDL later today.


----------



## tony.c (May 10, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Oh, and it sounds like some people got beat up pretty badly in The Howard in Sheffield by EDL later today.


Do you know who they were?


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 10, 2014)

tony.c said:


> Do you know who they were?



The people hurt? Yes, some of them.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 10, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> 'And now you are loving up to the jihadists.'  - wronger
> 'do you think muslims against crusades are anti fascist?' ...
> 'well given that Islamism is Nationalist in outlook you fucking should.' and wronger



They share many unpleasant traits with fascists. Not viewing favourably on mugs who stand shoulder to shoulder with them - like you - should they get a sniff of the levers of power for starters.


----------



## tony.c (May 10, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> So the Rotherham demo today looked big. About 500 I reckon. And fairly disciplined - no arrests as far as I know (at the demo at least) and lots of stewards who stopped them from attacking the police/throwing things effectively. I actually heard snippets of their speeches for a change as well - which included grievances against social services and tuition fees, as well as the usual sharia law bollocks.
> 
> Our side were a fucking embarrassment. On one side the usual UAF frenzy (complete with a Labour councillor claiming there were "no problems in Rotherham" and someone else calling for "unity among people of all classes"), on the other the rather sullen AFN types chanting in Spanish. I hate these demo's but I consider it a point of pride to get to them when they're on my home turf. I don't really know why I bothered today. At most we numbered 150, and we were very divided - it was obvious half the anti-fash there hated UAF.


EDL demonstration takes place in Rotherham
The Star
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/video-edl-demonstration-takes-place--in-rotherham-1-6609468


----------



## ddraig (May 10, 2014)

as well as this today
https://www.facebook.com/NorthEast.AntiFascists?fref=photo


----------



## Corax (May 10, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> So the Rotherham demo today looked big. About 500 I reckon. And fairly disciplined - no arrests as far as I know (at the demo at least) and lots of stewards who stopped them from attacking the police/throwing things effectively. I actually heard snippets of their speeches for a change as well - which included grievances against social services and tuition fees, as well as the usual sharia law bollocks.
> 
> Our side were a fucking embarrassment. On one side the usual UAF frenzy (complete with a Labour councillor claiming there were "no problems in Rotherham" and someone else calling for "unity among people of all classes"), on the other the rather sullen AFN types chanting in Spanish. I hate these demo's but I consider it a point of pride to get to them when they're on my home turf. I don't really know why I bothered today. At most we numbered 150, and we were very divided - it was obvious half the anti-fash there hated UAF.


'Liked' for the fact you turned up anyway btw.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 10, 2014)

Corax said:


> 'Liked' for the fact you turned up anyway btw.



Cheers. It was fucking depressing.


----------



## belboid (May 10, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Oh, and it sounds like some people got beat up pretty badly in The Howard in Sheffield by EDL later today.


You've got the demo pretty  much spot on I think. I cant believe te AFN lot were bloody daft enough to get done in the Howard - again. Just fucking obvious place to avoid after such a demo, especially when you stick out a mile.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 11, 2014)

belboid said:


> You've got the demo pretty  much spot on I think. I cant believe te AFN lot were bloody daft enough to get done in the Howard - again. Just fucking obvious place to avoid after such a demo, especially when you stick out a mile.



I know, I know but it sounds like they got more than they were really expecting...heard from a totally unreliable source that someone as young as 14 was punched.


----------



## treelover (May 11, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> So the Rotherham demo today looked big. About 500 I reckon. And fairly disciplined - no arrests as far as I know (at the demo at least) and lots of stewards who stopped them from attacking the police/throwing things effectively. I actually heard snippets of their speeches for a change as well - which included grievances against social services and tuition fees, as well as the usual sharia law bollocks.
> 
> Our side were a fucking embarrassment. On one side the usual UAF frenzy (complete with a Labour councillor claiming there were "no problems in Rotherham" and someone else calling for "unity among people of all classes"), on the other the rather sullen AFN types chanting in Spanish. I hate these demo's but I consider it a point of pride to get to them when they're on my home turf. I don't really know why I bothered today. At most we numbered 150, and we were very divided - it was obvious half the anti-fash there hated UAF.



Saw some EDL types at Sheffield station early sat morning: they walked out, but I'm sure they were EDL, they were scanning while they walked and bizarrely one of them was very conspicuously carrying a large first aid box!


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Oh, and it sounds like some people got beat up pretty badly in The Howard in Sheffield by EDL later today.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> They share many unpleasant traits with fascists. Not viewing favourably on mugs who stand shoulder to shoulder with them - like you - should they get a sniff of the levers of power for starters.



islam is not 'fascist.' it confuses what fascism is by misnaming any extremist fascist. as for muslims against crusades? what all 25 of them. they are fuck all.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> islam is not 'fascist.' it confuses what fascism is by misnaming any extremist fascist. as for muslims against crusades? what all 25 of them. they are fuck all.



I'm talking about Islamism not Islam.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

neither is islamism fascist. do they have fascist policies - militarism, nationalism, imperialism, class division, industrialisation and private/state economic plans? no. this is like rik in the young ones calling anyone he doesnt like fascist. islamists and fascists have one thing in common. they are both fuckspangles.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> neither is islamism fascist. do they have fascist policies - militarism, nationalism, imperialism, class division, industrialisation and private/state economic plans? no. this is like rik in the young ones calling anyone he doesnt like fascist. islamists and fascists have one thing in common. they are both fuckspangles.



They don't have a position on Kaffirs then?  Or on Socialism? Or Homosexuals?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

they dont even have economic policies. fascism is about economics. they are fuck all mate.


----------



## J Ed (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> they dont even have economic policies. fascism is about economics. they are fuck all mate.



Islamism is different to fascism but not because of this, there are concrete Islamist economic programmes. You are fuck all though.


----------



## krink (May 11, 2014)

anyway, there's three very short vids n youtube from the thing in sheffield pub. looks like very small group of anti-fash got thrown out of the pub by large gang of edl. 

there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no 'left' up here, there is very very small numbers of anti-fash who will actually turn out but you're talking incredibly small numbers. meanwhile NF and EDL get 100 - 300 fighting types regularly with limited or no opposition at all. 

the labour/uaf lot would rather grass antis up than work with them, and then there's the older 'veterans' who just slag the youngsters off. the vast majority of the population up here just don't care about politics at all but the minority who do, who are in the streets, who walk around without any hassle are the far right. don;'t know why they don't move that march for england to newcastle. they'd love that shit up here.


----------



## manny-p (May 11, 2014)

krink said:


> anyway, there's three very short vids n youtube from the thing in sheffield pub. looks like very small group of anti-fash got thrown out of the pub by large gang of edl.
> 
> there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no 'left' up here, there is very very small numbers of anti-fash who will actually turn out but you're talking incredibly small numbers. meanwhile NF and EDL get 100 - 300 fighting types regularly with limited or no opposition at all.
> 
> the labour/uaf lot would rather grass antis up than work with them, and then there's the older 'veterans' who just slag the youngsters off. the vast majority of the population up here just don't care about politics at all but the minority who do, who are in the streets, who walk around without any hassle are the far right. don;'t know why they don't move that march for england to newcastle. they'd love that shit up here.


You got any links to those vids krink? ta


----------



## krink (May 11, 2014)

manny-p said:


> You got any links to those vids krink? ta



i think i just searched antifa and sheffield in the last 24 hours. i'll have a look...


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Islamism is different to fascism but not because of this, there are concrete Islamist economic programmes. You are fuck all though.


do you actually do anything?


----------



## manny-p (May 11, 2014)

krink said:


> i think i just searched antifa and sheffield in the last 24 hours. i'll have a look...


ta mate i will have a look using those tags. I had a look before but cudnt find nowt.


----------



## krink (May 11, 2014)




----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

edit: the EDL may have attacked a pub antifascists were in. one EDL got battered with a stool, got a black eye and badly damaged jaw. friends say 2 antifash at hosptital with minor injuries. other EDL turned up and got nicked. they are now posting it over facebook and youtube to make plod's job easier. eejits.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

manny-p said:


> ta mate i will have a look using those tags. I had a look before but cudnt find nowt.


Owt. That's proper northern.


----------



## krink (May 11, 2014)




----------



## manny-p (May 11, 2014)

krink said:


>



ta


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

krink said:


> anyway, there's three very short vids n youtube from the thing in sheffield pub. looks like very small group of anti-fash got thrown out of the pub by large gang of edl.
> 
> there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no 'left' up here, there is very very small numbers of anti-fash who will actually turn out but you're talking incredibly small numbers. meanwhile NF and EDL get 100 - 300 fighting types regularly with limited or no opposition at all.the labour/uaf lot would rather grass antis up than work with them, and then there's the older 'veterans' who just slag the youngsters off. the vast majority of the population up here just don't care about politics at all but the minority who do, who are in the streets, who walk around without any hassle are the far right. don;'t know why they don't move that march for england to newcastle. they'd love that shit up here.



agreed. there are a lot of people who talk shite on here who never seem to show up for anything altho i have met plenty off here who do. weekend total: 
the BNP managed 12 at hemel.
NF got a fair few in NE see: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2014/05/516633.html
EDL got a few 100 in sheffield and the pub was damaged more than any antifascists. 
i've been to several things over the last few years where very few have bothered turning out.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> edit: the EDL may have attacked a pub antifascists were in. one EDL got battered with a stool, got a black eye and badly damaged jaw. friends say 2 antifash at hosptital with minor injuries. other EDL turned up and got nicked. they are now posting it over facebook and youtube to make plod's job easier. eejits.


You hadn't hard of it a minute ago and now you're broadcasting what really happened?  Stop doing this.



malatesta32 said:


> agreed. there are a lot of people who talk shite on here who never seem to show up for anything altho i have met plenty off here who do. .



Seriously, who are you?


----------



## manny-p (May 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Owt. That's proper northern.


its grim up north


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> You hadn't hard of it a minute ago and now you're broadcasting what really happened?  Stop doing this.



i heard a lot of stuff today thats been contradictory but havent been able to verify until now so havent published anything. so thanks to rotherham/shefifeld antifascists for the info. dont tell me what i should be doing butchers. it makes you sound despotic.
edit:


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> i heard a lot of stuff today thats been contradictory but havent been able to verify until now so havent published anything. so thanks to rotherham/shefifeld antifascists for the info. dont tell me what i should be doing butchers. it makes you sound despotic.



I'll tell you that a two minute look at a 24 second video does not equal what you posted. It doesn't confirm or show a damn thing. Where have you heard stuff? Secret sources?

Where's your book?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> You hadn't hard of it a minute ago and now you're broadcasting what really happened?  Stop doing this.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, who are you?



ask some of the people off here who bother getting off their arses and attending stuff. weho the fuck are you?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I'll tell you that a two minute look at a 24 second video does not equal what you posted. It doesn't confirm or show a damn thing. Where have you heard stuff? Secret sources?
> 
> Where's your book?



the videos cd be anything. sheffield AFN and rotherham antifascist mate confirmed it. give us yr address and i'll sned you a copy.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> ask some of the people off here who bother getting off their arses and attending stuff. weho the fuck are you?


Yeah. No book. No people who know you. Nothing.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

ask bignose, raknor, pickmans, topcat, mr bishie, fingers and fuck off. book out with AK autumn. whens your out? petty bitching is not anti-fascism.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> the videos cd be anything. sheffield AFN and rotherham antifascist mate confirmed it. give us yr address and i'll sned you a copy.



Of what? The video that could show anything? The 24 secs vid that's just been on here? Or a longer vid that you're happy to send to all plod reading or just make aware is available should a specific door go in?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

are you pissed already? fuck off mate.


----------



## manny-p (May 11, 2014)

Come on lads. Put your handbags away now.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> ask bignose, raknor, pickmans, topcat, mr bishie, fingers and fuck off. book out with AK autumn. whens your out? petty bitching is not anti-fascism.


Ask them what?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2014)

I know Mal, & he's fucking sound   Why are you asking who he is butchers?


----------



## belboid (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL got a few 100 in sheffield and the pub was damaged more than any antifascists.
> .


no they didnt, and no it wasnt


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I know Mal, & he's fucking sound   Why are you asking who he is butchers?


Because i'm not convinced that he is. Meeting one person at one thing on one day = not enough.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Because i'm not convinced that he is. Meeting one person at one thing on one day = not enough.



I've met him more than once. He's well respected amongst anti-fascists in Brighton.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I've met him more than once. He's well respected amongst anti-fascists in Brighton.


In what way - he turned up and started writing about the edl - or before that?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 11, 2014)

I'm certainly not going to talk about a friend in the public domain.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I know Mal, & he's fucking sound   Why are you asking who he is butchers?


tbh if people don't think yer man's sound i wish they post up reasons why so we can have the fucking thing out instead of this for all to know one way or the other.


----------



## manny-p (May 11, 2014)

Take this to pm's butchers. X


----------



## Citizen66 (May 11, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> they dont even have economic policies. fascism is about economics.



So the EDL have an economic policy then?


----------



## malatesta32 (May 11, 2014)

the EDL has had many fascists in it but is not a true fascist organisation. they have no policies except 'ban muslamics.'


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 12, 2014)

krink said:


> there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no 'left' up here



You what?


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 12, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> agreed. there are a lot of people who talk shite on here who never seem to show up for anything altho i have met plenty off here who do. weekend total:
> the BNP managed 12 at hemel.
> NF got a fair few in NE see: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2014/05/516633.html
> EDL got a few 100 in sheffield and the pub was damaged more than any antifascists.
> i've been to several things over the last few years where very few have bothered turning out.



Not Sheffield. Rotherham. And some of the antifa were quite badly injured.


----------



## Fingers (May 12, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Because i'm not convinced that he is. Meeting one person at one thing on one day = not enough.



I have been on plenty an anti fash demo with mal. he is sound.


----------



## krink (May 12, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> You what?


you'll have to be more specific than that.


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 12, 2014)

No left. In the North. Because apparently we're not 'counter-cultural' enough. Whatever that means.


----------



## Fingers (May 13, 2014)

http://www.civilliberty.org.uk/newsdetail.php?newsid=1896


----------



## malatesta32 (May 13, 2014)

wow! urban75 where truth is at a premium!


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 13, 2014)

Fingers said:


> http://www.civilliberty.org.uk/newsdetail.php?newsid=1896



Oh FFS...


----------



## malatesta32 (May 13, 2014)

apparently: 
Britain First's goon Mark Carlton (real name Johnson) sparked off a brawl in the Howard pub in Sheffield after Rotherham demo was met with a bottle to the face. There were 15 - 20 EDL fighting about 10 Antifascists.
2 comrades were sent to hospital with 3 who had minor injuries.
4 EDL were injured with 2 in hospital and 2 with minor injuries.


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2014)

Met some young relatives and their friends in the N.E this weekend, some sympathy for the EDL, its perhaps only the apathy in the uk over politics that people like these aren't joining these groups.


----------



## ddraig (May 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> Met some young relatives and their friends in the N.E this weekend, some sympathy for the EDL, its perhaps only the apathy in the uk over politics that people like these aren't joining these groups.


what groups?


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Oh FFS...




Its Kevin Scott


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2014)

ddraig said:


> what groups?




EDL, BF, etc


----------



## ddraig (May 14, 2014)

i thought apathy with politics in the uk drove people to those groups?


----------



## krink (May 14, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> No left. In the North. Because apparently we're not 'counter-cultural' enough. Whatever that means.



my original sentence was not complete, here it is again. I can't prove there is no left and/or counter-culture as I don't know how to prove something _doesn't_ exist.

there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a left/counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no left/counter-culture up here


----------



## belboid (May 14, 2014)

krink said:


> my original sentence was not complete, here it is again. I can't prove there is no left and/or counter-culture as I don't know how to prove something _doesn't_ exist.
> 
> there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a left/counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no left/counter-culture up here


'counter-culture'??? hmmm


----------



## krink (May 14, 2014)

Fingers said:


> http://www.civilliberty.org.uk/newsdetail.php?newsid=1896



he's kissing edl up here cos his little group have imploded. fellow ex-bnp candidate alan spemnce has stood down as north east edl boss and now kevin scott is kissing their arse? does anyone know if Spence and Scott were friends or enemies?

*edit to add, either way, you'll not show your face will you Kevin? Come back to Silky, I've got a present for you.


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## krink (May 14, 2014)

belboid said:


> 'counter-culture'??? hmmm


 
honestly, you'll have to ask a question as I don't understand these 'hmmmms' and 'you whats' please just be direct thanks.


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## belboid (May 14, 2014)

I think the idea that we need a 'counter-cultural' movement to beat fascism is tosh. Also, the idea that there is no left (or indeed 'counter-culture') in the north to be equally tosh.

In the majority of the north the EDL are nothing, and darent show there faces. So they could get 1/3 of the turnout they managed to get in Rotherham 18 months ago,  and they assaulted some people later - those are signs of weakness, not strength. Newcastle and the north-east seems to be slightly different, but Newcastle and the north-east isnt 'the north'


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## J Ed (May 14, 2014)

What does counter culture mean in this context anyway? Students in those gap year trousers juggling in the park and smoking roll ups? There are plenty of those in Sheffield anyway, I'm not sure it's helping one way or the other.


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## SpackleFrog (May 14, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> apparently:
> Britain First's goon Mark Carlton (real name Johnson) sparked off a brawl in the Howard pub in Sheffield after Rotherham demo was met with a bottle to the face. There were 15 - 20 EDL fighting about 10 Antifascists.
> 2 comrades were sent to hospital with 3 who had minor injuries.
> 4 EDL were injured with 2 in hospital and 2 with minor injuries.



I heard more but I heard it from the anarcho-kids so they may have embellished. I know of definitely 2 people who went to hospital.


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## SpackleFrog (May 14, 2014)

treelover said:


> Its Kevin Scott



Who is Kevin Scott? Why is he so interested in my incisive analysis?


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 14, 2014)

krink said:


> honestly, you'll have to ask a question as I don't understand these 'hmmmms' and 'you whats' please just be direct thanks.



The "you what" was an opportunity for you to edit what you said and revise your conflation of 'counter-culture' (WTF is counter-culture?) with the left. As well as an opportunity for you to take back your bonkers assertion that there is a left in Bristol but not in Sheffield or Leeds. What do you think about the excellent anti-bedroom tax campaign in Barnsley for example? Is that nothing to do with the left because the people involved with it don't like the right kind of grimestep dubhouse or whatever the kids are dancing to these days?


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## Corax (May 14, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Who is Kevin Scott? Why is he so interested in my incisive analysis?


Cillit Bang bloke


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## chilango (May 14, 2014)

Historically the North thing just isn't true.

Manchester was for at least a couple of generations a complete no-go zone for the Fash and to be at the heart of the EF! stuff.Leeds had enough of a scene to attract all kinds spook shenanigans. Liverpool had all the stuff built around the dockers and of course all it's Trot councillors.

Now the mill towns huddled in the slopes of Pennines were a different matter but were still contested.

The Fash were most open in South Wales and in E London.

Things no doubt have changed,  but I don't imagine there's a huge discrepancy between the decline of the Left in Mcr and in Bristol for eg. Oddly, the place I've seen a bonehead openly walking streets on recent times was Bristol City Centre. And the only place I've seen an EdL presence is Reading.


So, a bit of a red herring this North - South anti fascist divide ime.


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## Kev Scott LTJ (May 14, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Who is Kevin Scott? Why is he so interested in my incisive analysis?


Ex NF / BNP ..........spent many a Saturday standing around in Sunderland town centre, with one pimply yoof, one old geezer and a dog, trying to hand out racist shite.
After a few failed attempts electorally, and being bollocked by B&Q for being a racist numptie he set himself up as 'civil liberty' which is allegedly a front for raising money for the BNP in the states.... or was........


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## Dogsauce (May 14, 2014)

krink said:


> there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a left/counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no left/counter-culture up here



Bradford 1in12?  Manchester squat scene?  Dirty hippies in Hebden bridge?


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## framed (May 14, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> Bradford 1in12?  Manchester squat scene?  Dirty hippies in Hebden bridge?



Jumpers for goalposts?


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## Citizen66 (May 14, 2014)

belboid said:


> I think the idea that we need a 'counter-cultural' movement to beat fascism is tosh. Also, the idea that there is no left (or indeed 'counter-culture') in the north to be equally tosh.
> 
> In the majority of the north the EDL are nothing, and darent show there faces. So they could get 1/3 of the turnout they managed to get in Rotherham 18 months ago,  and they assaulted some people later - those are signs of weakness, not strength. Newcastle and the north-east seems to be slightly different, but Newcastle and the north-east isnt 'the north'



Krink meant the North East so fuck off passing comment unless it's from experience.

Clue: people in the NE mean the NE when they say 'the north'. Not Sheffield which is the Midlands.


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## Citizen66 (May 14, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> the EDL has had many fascists in it but is not a true fascist organisation. they have no policies except 'ban muslamics.'



So you know what a fascist is better than I. Your approach is completely wrong though. Misguided. These organisations are split into two groups. Seasoned fascists and the disenfranchised working class. The former only understand a boot in the head whilst the latter are more susceptible to persuasive dialogue. But that involves actually talking to them and not tarring them all with the same brush whilst standing shoulder to shoulder with Islamist cunts who'd have your sister's clit cut out given half the chance/


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## free spirit (May 14, 2014)

krink said:


> my original sentence was not complete, here it is again. I can't prove there is no left and/or counter-culture as I don't know how to prove something _doesn't_ exist.
> 
> there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a left/counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no left/counter-culture up here


have you ever been to the north?

G8 campsite in stirling had areas run by different local groups, from memory the main groups were Manc, Leeds, Newcastle, Lancaster, Nottingham, Cardiff, Bristol.

Newcastle green Festival's run for 20 years, with 20,000 attending at the peak, Durham miners gala has 50,000 or so out each year.

Though I'm a lot out of date due to getting a bit narked with it all a few years back.


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## Citizen66 (May 14, 2014)

free spirit said:


> Durham miners gala has 50,000 or so out each year.



You think that even means 'the left'?


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## free spirit (May 14, 2014)

One thing to be wary of with the newcastle demo and whatever counter demo there is, is that last time the self proclaimed leaders of the newcastle UAF, or whatever it's called, prevented more radical elements being involved in the organising in advance, then actually had about a dozen of them arrested for daring to attend their demo.

Fuck that, fuck them, no fucking way I'd share a demonstration with cunts like that.


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## Citizen66 (May 14, 2014)

free spirit said:


> One thing to be wary of with the newcastle demo and whatever counter demo there is, is that last time the self proclaimed leaders of the newcastle UAF, or whatever it's called, prevented more radical elements being involved in the organising in advance, then actually had about a dozen of them arrested for daring to attend their demo.
> 
> Fuck that, fuck them, no fucking way I'd share a demonstration with cunts like that.



That was Newcastle Unites. You're singing to the choir. Why tell krink this stuff?


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## free spirit (May 14, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> That was Newcastle Unites. You're singing to the choir. Why tell krink this stuff?


I was informing the thread and anyone who might read it in case anyone reading it wasn't aware or had forgotten.

It may not seem like it, but people other than those who're posting regularly on it actually read these threads looking for info on demos etc. and they might not be as clued up as those who regularly contrbute to it.

on that note, lest it be forgotten... here's the statement issued at the time on behalf of the 14 who were arrested for the crime of wanting to join the main Newcastle Unites demo.

But in relation to krink's point, well it will undoubtedly have a significant impact on the turn out this time around, and Newcastle Unites will be pretty much dependent upon the police to defend their demo from the EDL, as anyone of a slightly more militant outlook is unlikely to be around to jump in if needed.


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## Citizen66 (May 15, 2014)

But I suspect Krink is more heavily involved in the organising of this event than Duncan or Dipu is. Having said that, the latter may be organising something.


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## free spirit (May 15, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> But I suspect Krink is more heavily involved in the organising of this event than Duncan or Dipu is. Having said that, the latter may be organising something.


possibly so, if so then I hope krink can knock some sense into those organising it as they seem to have managed to have alienated a lot of people last time.


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## SpackleFrog (May 15, 2014)

krink said:


> anyway, there's three very short vids n youtube from the thing in sheffield pub. looks like very small group of anti-fash got thrown out of the pub by large gang of edl.
> 
> there's a big difference between london/brighton/bristol, where there is a counter-culture of some description, and up north. there is no 'left' up here, there is very very small numbers of anti-fash who will actually turn out but you're talking incredibly small numbers. meanwhile NF and EDL get 100 - 300 fighting types regularly with limited or no opposition at all.
> 
> the labour/uaf lot would rather grass antis up than work with them, and then there's the older 'veterans' who just slag the youngsters off. the vast majority of the population up here just don't care about politics at all but the minority who do, who are in the streets, who walk around without any hassle are the far right. don;'t know why they don't move that march for england to newcastle. they'd love that shit up here.



Quoting the original post for the benefit of Citizen66. It looks to me quite a lot like it means anywhere north of Bristol/London but if I've got that wrong Krink I apologise.

Even if I have, I think equating 'counter-culture' with antifascist militancy is boneheaded.


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## gamerunknown (May 15, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> So you know what a fascist is better than I. Your approach is completely wrong though. Misguided. These organisations are split into two groups. Seasoned fascists and the disenfranchised working class. The former only understand a boot in the head whilst the latter are more susceptible to persuasive dialogue. But that involves actually talking to them and not tarring them all with the same brush whilst standing shoulder to shoulder with Islamist cunts who'd have your sister's clit cut out given half the chance/



So, individual members of the EDL are just genuine members of the disenfranchised working class and Muslims working with anti-fascists advocate female genital mutilation?


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## SpackleFrog (May 15, 2014)

At the risk of being pedantic, is FGM something Islamists are particularly keen on? It's more of an African rather than Islamic custom isn't it?


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## free spirit (May 15, 2014)

Actually, I do see a bit more where Krink was coming from.

There are a hell of a lot of pissed off left wing, anti-facist, anti cuts types on my facebook wall from Newcastle, but this probably isn't manifesting itself on the streets at these demos.

The reasons for that IME are likely down to the closed nature of the groups who organise these protests, who've never really been interested in getting these people involved, at least that was always the impression I got. ETA - especially when there was any chance of their cosy leadership positions and methods being put in doubt.


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## Citizen66 (May 15, 2014)

gamerunknown said:


> So, individual members of the EDL are just genuine members of the disenfranchised working class and Muslims working with anti-fascists advocate female genital mutilation?



I said Islamist groups not Muslims. Fuck off.


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## Citizen66 (May 15, 2014)

free spirit said:


> possibly so, if so then I hope krink can knock some sense into those organising it as they seem to have managed to have alienated a lot of people last time.



I just said I don't know if it's the same people organising this.


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## gamerunknown (May 15, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I said Islamist groups not Muslims. Fuck off.



So which Islamist groups advocating female genital mutilation is malatesta working with then?


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## Sprocket. (May 15, 2014)

Thumbs up to all who attended the Rotherham anti EDL protest.
I remember a massive NF demo in Rotherham in 76. We were there with the Trade Unions anti NF group.
I got quite a bad thumping from the Front and a couple of sneaky thumps from coppers!
How many of the EDL were locals and how many traveled in on Saturday I wonder?


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## Citizen66 (May 15, 2014)

gamerunknown said:
			
		

> So which Islamist groups advocating female genital mutilation is malatesta working with then?



Why don't you ask him?


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## SpackleFrog (May 15, 2014)

Sprocket. said:


> Thumbs up to all who attended the Rotherham anti EDL protest.
> I remember a massive NF demo in Rotherham in 76. We were there with the Trade Unions anti NF group.
> I got quite a bad thumping from the Front and a couple of sneaky thumps from coppers!
> How many of the EDL were locals and how many traveled in on Saturday I wonder?



Looked like not that many locals to me - EDL from as far as Wales, Shropshire and Luton definitely.


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## Sprocket. (May 15, 2014)

That's good to hear. I notice there is a South Yorkshire division pumping out bile on the net.
They always target the towns with large minority populations.
They also hide behind the anti extreme Islam facade.
TIs pants. Rascist is as racist does.
Intolerance will not be tolerated in the words of my old shop steward.


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## sunnysidedown (May 15, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Krink meant the North East so fuck off passing comment unless it's from experience.
> 
> Clue: people in the NE mean the NE when they say 'the north'. Not Sheffield which is the Midlands.




Spot on, the midlands are called the midlands for a reason.

I was back in Newcastle last month for the first time in a long while, I was having a few beers with an old mate in town and we headed to one particular pub that was rammed with what appeared to be a load of goose steppers, it suddenly occurred to me that it was in fact St Georges day and the pub did indeed have it's share of goose steppers, along with fusileers, patriotic types, piss heads, boot boys, bikers, and a whole load of other fuckers, including me and my mate - I have to say I did feel a bit uneasy, with the possibility that we may have to prove our allegiance to someone, in some way, at some point, luckily we were both wearing Ben Sherman and it was $1.50 a pint (bombardier), plus they had a punk disco on upstairs... I think we had 3 pints before we fucked off.


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## SpackleFrog (May 15, 2014)

sunnysidedown said:


> Spot on, the midlands are called the midlands for a reason.
> 
> I was back in Newcastle last month for the first time in a long while, I was having a few beers with an old mate in town and we headed to one particular pub that was rammed with what appeared to be a load of goose steppers, it suddenly occurred to me that it was in fact St Georges day and the pub did indeed have it's share of goose steppers, along with fusileers, patriotic types, piss heads, boot boys, bikers, and a whole load of other fuckers, including me and my mate - I have to say I did feel a bit uneasy, with the possibility that we may have to prove our allegiance to someone, in some way, at some point, luckily we were both wearing Ben Sherman and it was $1.50 a pint (bombardier), plus they had a punk disco on upstairs... I think we had 3 pints before we fucked off.



Good story. Is there a point to it then? Are pubs like that somehow unique to the North East?


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## Sprocket. (May 15, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Good story. Is there a point to it then? Are pubs like that somehow unique to the North East?



Only if you are wearing a shirt!


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## sunnysidedown (May 15, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> Good story. Is there a point to it then? Are pubs like that somehow unique to the North East?



Is there any point to the story? probably not  
I do find Newcastle a funny place, full of contradictions. I wouldn't say it's any worse now than it's ever been previously with regards to actual *fascist* activity. The boozer I was in that I mentioned was decked out in red & white as it was St Georges day (you'll not find a pub in Newcastle displaying those colours any other time of the year!). And I would take a guess that the majority there were not actual fascists, although a bused in SWP/UAF contingent would no doubt think otherwise.
So no, pubs like that are certainly not unique to the north east, I've been to boozers around London, when I lived in Bethnal Green for example, that are pretty much the same (their penchant for seafood on the bar down south apart).


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## krink (May 15, 2014)

I did mean the north east, sorry for the confusion. We do consider 'the north' to mean teesside, durham, wearside, tyneside and it's something i do/say without thinking. I'll reply to the comments in a while as I'm at work and I get spotted if I'm sitting typing for more than a few seconds. cheers.


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## Fingers (May 15, 2014)

belboid said:


> I think the idea that we need a 'counter-cultural' movement to beat fascism is tosh. Also, the idea that there is no left (or indeed 'counter-culture') in the north to be equally tosh.'



i would say mainly in Tyne  area and West Yorkshire now. They are tiny elsewhere in the North


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## SpackleFrog (May 15, 2014)

Fingers said:


> i would say mainly in Tyne  area and West Yorkshire now. They are tiny elsewhere in the North



They never really existed in South Yorkshire until a year or so ago - I'm not saying it'll last but it seemed to catch on late here.


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## Fingers (May 15, 2014)

SpackleFrog said:


> They never really existed in South Yorkshire until a year or so ago - I'm not saying it'll last but it seemed to catch on late here.



Yeah that has been a bit of a increase though bear in mind, most of the morons involved in the Howard fracas were identified as being from West Yorkshire.


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## krink (May 16, 2014)

just a quick 'for the record' i'm not directly involved with organising anything at the moment though i try to support the good things. i'm at a point in my life where i don't have the time or the energy for the politics of it all..though i'll probably get back on it when my kids have grown up a bit. cheers.


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## gamerunknown (May 16, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Why don't you ask him?



You're the one making the accusations.


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## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

gamerunknown said:


> You're the one making the accusations.



The 'clit' thing was hyperbole. But that doesn't change the fact that he's happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamist groups who are 'fuck all' but obviously enough to hold hands with against fascism.

My enemy's enemy is my friend? Is there any actual politics here or just wearing masks and black t-shirts for the party of lollipop placard lifting behind the police picket?

As far as I'm concerned, both Islamism and Fascism can fuck off with equal strokes.

What you got to say about that then you daft twat?


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## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

krink said:


> just a quick 'for the record' i'm not directly involved with organising anything at the moment though i try to support the good things. i'm at a point in my life where i don't have the time or the energy for the politics of it all..though i'll probably get back on it when my kids have grown up a bit. cheers.



I meant NEA not you individually. Sorry for misrepresentation.


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## frogwoman (May 16, 2014)

Its arguable that in the middle east islamists like the Muslim brotherhood play a similar role to the fash - smashing workers protests, etc


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## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Its arguable that in the middle east islamists like the Muslim brotherhood play a similar role to the fash - smashing workers protests, etc



I've been arguing this (obviously badly) and I'm met with complete resistance to the idea by the book readers. I don't mind the book readers, but anyone who shares a platform with Islamists isn't an antifascist.

End of subject.


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## frogwoman (May 16, 2014)

A lot of these Islamist groups have big similarities with fascism. Especially in Egypt etc - semi organized mobs of paramilitaries, obsession with law and order and 'purity', class collaboration, obsession wirh violence, belief in a glorious rebirth, etc


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## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> A lot of these Islamist groups have big similarities with fascism. Especially in Egypt etc - semi organized mobs of paramilitaries, obsession with law and order and 'purity', class collaboration, obsession wirh violence, belief in a glorious rebirth, etc



I've been arguing this!!! I love you froggy. Throw me a life jacket.


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## frogwoman (May 16, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I've been arguing this!!! I love you froggy. Throw me a life jacket.



To be honest I haven't read enough about the topic to back up my points but if you look at the Egyptian events and elsewhere in the middle east, the targeting of Christians, Shi'a in pogroms and (occasionally) Jews, breaking up strikes, helping the police/army, obsession with 'unity of the ummah' etc, intimidation of female protesters,belief in the 'purification' and redemption and qualities of war and violence and obsession with morality and values, as well as the fact that with some of these groups they are helped along by street thugs etc, I'm not saying it is exactly the same as fascism but the similarities are very striking in some of the Islamist groups. There are different kinds of Islamism though obviously, but in many cases these groups fulfill the same political and economic function as fascism did/does in Europe


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## frogwoman (May 16, 2014)

Its different from classical fascism because of the religious component, but 'clerical fascism' has appeared all over the place, I'm not sure why this should be so controversial and even if they're not strictly fascist they're not exactly friends if anti fascists are they!


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## Pickman's model (May 16, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I've been arguing this!!! I love you froggy. Throw me a life jacket.


it's been nicked


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## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> To be honest I haven't read enough about the topic to back up my points but if you look at the Egyptian events and elsewhere in the middle east, the targeting of Christians, Shi'a in pogroms and (occasionally) Jews, breaking up strikes, helping the police/army, obsession with 'unity of the ummah' etc, intimidation of female protesters,belief in the 'purification' and redemption and qualities of war and violence and obsession with morality and values, as well as the fact that with some of these groups they are helped along by street thugs etc, I'm not saying it is exactly the same as fascism but the similarities are very striking in some of the Islamist groups. There are different kinds of Islamism though obviously, but in many cases these groups fulfill the same political and economic function as fascism did/does in Europe



I was arguing that their 'Nationalism' was Islam itself, or the Caliphate, and that their hatred of the Kafir  - spelt almost identically to the Kaffir  - is an indication that their politics is steeped in their bigotry. But the politics bores came along with their tape measures and proved me wrong.


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## frogwoman (May 16, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I was arguing that their 'Nationalism' was Islam itself, or the Caliphate, and that their hatred of the Kafir  - spelt almost identically to the Kaffir  - is an indication their politics steeped in their bigotry. But the politics bores came along with their tape measures and proved me wrong.



No I think that in some cases at least you are right tbh. I think saying that it is always fascist is simplifying it a bit tho


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## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> No I think that in some cases at least you are right tbh. I think saying that it is always fascist is simplifying it a bit tho



I know Islamism is a broad church (mosque?) but the context was UK Islamist organisations - Al Muhajiroun or Islam4UK or whatever name it goes by nowadays. It's a state fucking asset anyway.


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## frogwoman (May 16, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I know Islamism is a broad church (mosque?) but the context was UK Islamist organisations - Al Muhajiroun or Islam4UK or whatever name it goes by nowadays. It's a state fucking asset anyway.



Maybe. I don't know enough about them tbh.


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## Citizen66 (May 16, 2014)

frogwoman said:
			
		

> Maybe. I don't know enough about them tbh.



Sharia harshness. Trots usually link arms with them. Yay to sexism and homophobia. They're a minority so mean fuck all. Apparently the EDL are too.


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## Corax (May 16, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> To be honest I haven't read enough about the topic to back up my points but if you look at the Egyptian events and elsewhere in the middle east, the targeting of Christians, Shi'a in pogroms and (occasionally) Jews, breaking up strikes, helping the police/army, obsession with 'unity of the ummah' etc, intimidation of female protesters,belief in the 'purification' and redemption and qualities of war and violence and obsession with morality and values, as well as the fact that with some of these groups they are helped along by street thugs etc, I'm not saying it is exactly the same as fascism but the similarities are very striking in some of the Islamist groups. There are different kinds of Islamism though obviously, but in many cases these groups fulfill the same political and economic function as fascism did/does in Europe


Interesting post froggie - leads me to ponder history of the catholic organisation in a similar light.


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## malatesta32 (May 17, 2014)

*Britain’s Wildest Suppositions: *
WRONG: ‘whilst standing shoulder to shoulder with Islamist cunts who'd have your sister's clit cut out given half the chance.’’ Who exactly would that be? On demos I’m usually stood with folk like Bishie, Fingers and Raknor.

WRONG: ‘But that doesn't change the fact that he's happy to stand shoulder to shoulder with Islamist groups who are 'fuck all' but obviously enough to hold hands with against fascism.’

RIGHT: ‘So which Islamist groups advocating female genital mutilation is malatesta working with then?’

None! As an obvious anarchist all religious groups have an agenda I do not share.


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## frogwoman (May 17, 2014)

Corax said:


> Interesting post froggie - leads me to ponder history of the catholic organisation in a similar light.



Nah I'm not at all sure the Catholic Church as a whole even at the height of its power could be described as fascist although they and the Orthodox Church have worked with real fascists in the past. Fascism only started to appear in the late 19th/early 20th century, it was a reaction to the enlightenment (many of these Islamist groups can again be compared with it because they are reacting to changes in society that could not have taken place without 'modernity') and don't forget that for fascism you need a highly centralized organization, and the catholic church couldn't exercise that level of control over many of its members for much of its history. (The murders of Jews etc often took place at the initiative of locals and in some cases were explicitly condemned by the Pope and other high ranking members of the church - on more than one occasion the pope explicitly said that the blood libel was a myth, but the persecution carried on at a local level). In the time when the church was powerful there was also nothing like a state which we know today. And although the church may have ordered stuff it was up to kings, barons etc to carry most of it out, and they didn't/couldn't always do it, not having control over the territory. I don't think many of these popes were all powerful charismatic leaders like the fascist leaders were either.

In addition the kings and barons were mostly also just as powerful as the church in their own right tbh. This doesn't mean of course that they weren't often utter scum but I don't think they can really be called fascist at all.


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## Corax (May 17, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Nah I'm not at all sure the Catholic Church as a whole even at the height of its power could be described as fascist although they and the Orthodox Church have worked with real fascists in the past. Fascism only started to appear in the late 19th/early 20th century, it was a reaction to the enlightenment (many of these Islamist groups can again be compared with it because they are reacting to changes in society that could not have taken place without 'modernity') and don't forget that for fascism you need a highly centralized organization, and the catholic church couldn't exercise that level of control over many of its members for much of its history. (The murders of Jews etc often took place at the initiative of locals and in some cases were explicitly condemned by the Pope and other high ranking members of the church - on more than one occasion the pope explicitly said that the blood libel was a myth, but the persecution carried on at a local level). In the time when the church was powerful there was also nothing like a state which we know today. And although the church may have ordered stuff it was up to kings, barons etc to carry most of it out, and they didn't/couldn't always do it, not having control over the territory. I don't think many of these popes were all powerful charismatic leaders like the fascist leaders were either.
> 
> In addition the kings and barons were mostly also just as powerful as the church in their own right tbh. This doesn't mean of course that they weren't often utter scum but I don't think they can really be called fascist at all.


You're much better versed in the definitions than me. It was inquisition times that came to mind.


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## frogwoman (May 17, 2014)

Corax said:


> You're much better versed in the definitions than me. It was inquisition times that came to mind.



Yeah I thought that might be what you were getting at. Its a good point to be honest, I don't know enough about that period. butchersapron might


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## frogwoman (May 17, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> Yeah I thought that might be what you were getting at. Its a good point to be honest, I don't know enough about that period. butchersapron might


. I'm still not sure you could call it fascist though.


----------



## Ranbay (May 18, 2014)




----------



## cantsin (May 19, 2014)

B0B2oo9 said:


>




some reasonable attempts to engage / debate etc there, didn't look too moody / confrontational, would be good to see that happening more.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 20, 2014)

An account of EDL trying to gatecrash an anti-fash solidarity gig in Portsmouth on Saturday

http://portsmouthantifascists.wordp...nkin-skirmishin-a-report-from-saturday-night/


----------



## malatesta32 (May 20, 2014)

nice one pompey antifash!


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 22, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> An account of EDL trying to gatecrash an anti-fash solidarity gig in Portsmouth on Saturday
> 
> http://portsmouthantifascists.wordp...nkin-skirmishin-a-report-from-saturday-night/



I followed the link to "Crap video" in the report above, where EDL hassled HNH at Eastleigh. Awful. The EDL run all over them saying what they want, and none of the HNH have a voice or answers. At one point the woman says, "just give me your leaflets and go home", which under other circumstances might be funny but in this video is like a nail in a coffin. The HNH seem totally unprepared to respond verbally despite a police presence that would have minimized any physical assault. EDL have been allowed to score points there.

EDL (accusation): you support mass immigration.
HNH: mumbled illegible answer.

The Portsmouth account of their gig, on the other hand, is awesome.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 25, 2014)

uh oh!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...m-staging-protests-police-chief-suggests.html


----------



## SpackleFrog (May 28, 2014)

I've asked this before, and thanks to all for supplying answers in the past, but anyone got any up to date personal information re: Jeff Marsh? 

Feel free to be as detailed as you wish.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2014)

he was killed in a freak masturbation accident. he had a very heavy onanistic schedule and suffered a massive aneurysm.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 28, 2014)

swedish antifa:
https://news.vice.com/video/swedens-war-on-fascists


----------



## gamerunknown (Jun 3, 2014)

Don't go anywhere near Vice...


----------



## framed (Jun 3, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> swedish antifa:
> https://news.vice.com/video/swedens-war-on-fascists



The approach of VICE appears to be along the same lines as the state, label all sides as 'extremist' and supply a suitably sneering commentary.

It's the old OSABATO line - '*O*ne *S*ide's *A*s *B*ad *A*s *T*he *O*ther' - which has been applied to the football divide in Glasgow by mainstream journalists and which the British and Irish media peddled for years in relation to politics and war in the north of Ireland.

'Anti-Extremism' is state policy and compliant proxies like Hope Not Hate, Searchlight and VICE are used to promote the line.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 3, 2014)

gamerunknown said:


> Don't go anywhere near Vice...



rich man in cunt shocker


----------



## J Ed (Jun 5, 2014)

framed said:


> 'Anti-Extremism' is state policy and compliant proxies like Hope Not Hate, Searchlight and VICE are used to promote the line.



Vice went to Venezuela to parrot the line of the far-right opposition there while they were blowing up public services for the poor and murdering the people who work in them. James Murdoch is on the board of Vice.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2014)

interesting from SLAF: 
http://www.slaf.org.uk/post/86512989361/anti-fascism-one-year-on-from-the-lee-rigby-murder


----------



## Red About Town (Jun 6, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> swedish antifa:
> https://news.vice.com/video/swedens-war-on-fascists



What are the opinions on here of this Rev Front group?


----------



## framed (Jun 6, 2014)

They seem okay imho, take a 'class not nation' approach to anti-fascism... but they should have battered that VICE reporter.


----------



## Red About Town (Jun 6, 2014)

I read somewhere that they model themselves on Red Action so will definitely be keeping a closer eye on them.


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 6, 2014)

Red About Town said:


> I read somewhere that they model themselves on Red Action so will definitely be keeping a closer eye on them.



They say they do, but they're more inspired by them.

They've been going for quiet a while now.


----------



## Red About Town (Jun 6, 2014)

Quite like this video. 



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 6, 2014)

Default Dry Demo Shock! 
looks like EDL at Stevenage may be their 1st demo sober. then they will realise what insufferable eejits they all are. 
http://www.theadvertisergroup.co.uk...march-close-doors-to-group-20140606140539.htm


----------



## Saffy (Jun 7, 2014)

EDL have just announced that they're going to return to stevenage in 6 weeks time.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 7, 2014)

plod reckon they got 300 there and as usual they over stretch themselves by making ridiculous pronunciamentos.


----------



## Saffy (Jun 7, 2014)

I've just been past St George's playing field and there's police tape everywhere, helicopter, fast response and ambulance I'm not sure if it's connected to any that happened today or not.


----------



## andrewc (Jun 7, 2014)

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/masked-far-right-national-action-group-7232351

Another lot of nasties ?


----------



## Red Storm (Jun 7, 2014)

andrewc said:


> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/masked-far-right-national-action-group-7232351
> 
> Another lot of nasties ?



British Movement chaps.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 7, 2014)

National action are a little groupuscule run by some scrote student who reckons he will be the next big thing. so big in fact he needs the BM of all people to bolster his numbers.


----------



## andrewc (Jun 8, 2014)

Got some coverage in the Mirror today.  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/exposed-rise-hitler-loving-national-action-3659759


----------



## krink (Jun 8, 2014)

since i first became aware of NA I have had a gut feeling that something is off about them. They just don't feel 'legit' IYKWIM. I've no evidence but I just can't help wonder if they are some kind of honey pot or a front/tool for some other far-right group. Or maybe a new 'bogeyman' encouraged by those who make a lot of money out of the 'anti- extremist' industry...

They were covered in the Mirror because the paper is aligned to and has often supported HNH/Searchlight but I bet NA's facebook/twitter following increased today.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 9, 2014)

the fash forums are split Krink! some of the old nazi slags reckon its another 1 doomed for failure, others grasp optimistically at straws, still waiting for the British national socialist revival.


----------



## krink (Jun 9, 2014)

Yes Mal, I was reading shitfront last night and there's a few on there who reckon NA are either honeypot or bogey-man/cash-cow. If they are real, they're going to get a knock very soon.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 9, 2014)

Lol, they think they're Anonymous.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 9, 2014)

andrewc said:


> Got some coverage in the Mirror today.  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/exposed-rise-hitler-loving-national-action-3659759


Out of curiosity I had a look at the authors - a _Sunday Mirror_ senior reporter, a reporter, and this chap:





> *Colin Cortbus*
> 
> Former member of UKIP, who left when he had seen enough of their hurtful politics of shouting loudest. Now a student and anti-extremism campaigner. Radical liberal, eurosceptic and secularist. Have worked to expose Hizb-ut-Tahrir, UKIP, EDL extremists ect. Fellow of Stand for Peace, leading interfaith organisation tackling extremism of all kinds.



http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/colin-cortbus/

http://mancunion.com/2013/03/04/i-w...ecord-vile-homophopia-on-campus-says-cortbus/


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2014)

is this the same third positionist student lot mentioned pages ago?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 9, 2014)

wee eejits. shall put up more info when i collate it all!


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 10, 2014)

A look at their puddle-deep 'strategy document' has a section on making their 'movement' attractive to youth called marketing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2014)

yeah it reads like a failed business undergraduates 'monetising' of the far right and making it 'cool' and 'teen friendly'' when in fact, he is just a shitbiscuit.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> Out of curiosity I had a look at the authors - a _Sunday Mirror_ senior reporter, a reporter, and this chap:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





never mind his politics, brave guy, could have got quite a kicking


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2014)

not from national action, the spotty herberts!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 10, 2014)

hey up! 
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...tivists_plan_to_demonstrate_in_Middlesbrough/


----------



## gamerunknown (Jun 12, 2014)

Crying God for Tim, Cricklewood and Wetherspoons I suppose...


----------



## Wilf (Jun 12, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> hey up!
> http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne...tivists_plan_to_demonstrate_in_Middlesbrough/


 There was a failed attempt to intimidate people attending the Teesside Solidarity Movement last night (by edl/northeast infidels). They didn't make it out of the pub. 

Keep an eye on the TSM facebook page for details of counter manoeuvres (specifics nearer the time).
https://www.facebook.com/TeessideSolidarityMovement


----------



## articul8 (Jun 14, 2014)

SE Alliance easily shown off in Cricklewood today


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 14, 2014)

articul8 said:


> SE Alliance easily shown off in Cricklewood today



They were taking liberites later in the day though.

And now some are off to Calais to batter some migrants.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 14, 2014)

http://jesshurd.com/2014/06/14/cricklewood-no-pasaran/


----------



## gamerunknown (Jun 14, 2014)

articul8 said:


> SE Alliance easily shown off in Cricklewood today



Depends how you'd define that - SEA definitely didn't achieve the aims of their demonstration, but they occupied the Beaten Docket afterwards while most of their opponents dispersed. One protester was arrested outside the pub confronting them there (reportedly for breach of bail conditions) and as far as I know is being held overnight. 

I know quite a few of the protesters went to the UAF meeting, but premature declarations of victory are pernicious at these events.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 15, 2014)

bits from yesterday:





http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/fascists-sent-packing-in-cricklewood/
other stuff on antifash sites on facebook.






https://twitter.com/NorthLondonAF


----------



## articul8 (Jun 15, 2014)

gamerunknown said:


> Depends how you'd define that - SEA definitely didn't achieve the aims of their demonstration, but they occupied the Beaten Docket afterwards while most of their opponents dispersed. One protester was arrested outside the pub confronting them there (reportedly for breach of bail conditions) and as far as I know is being held overnight.
> 
> I know quite a few of the protesters wetnt to the UAF meeting, but premature declarations of victory are pernicious at these events.


They didn't occupy the Docket.  I went in there for a few hours straight afterwards.  They shut the doors for a while after there was some aggro between a small group out the front and some anti's.  Tbh I'm not sure they were fash just symp England fans.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 15, 2014)

articul8 said:


> SE Alliance easily shown off in Cricklewood today


there is a difference between shown off and seen off


----------



## ddraig (Jun 15, 2014)

Demotix from Cricklewood by Oscar Webb

http://www.demotix.com/photo/5007522/far-right-group-south-east-alliance-march-cricklewood-and-uaf


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 18, 2014)

robinson bollocks. 
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/techno...-my-interview-with-a-reformed-tommy-robinson/


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jun 18, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> robinson bollocks.
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/techno...-my-interview-with-a-reformed-tommy-robinson/


Seems to have got the big(idi)ots on the comments boards frothing though!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2014)

what a bunch of fucken eejits!
http://hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider/nazi-diddyman-back-behind-bars-3868
they must either like the food or secretly hang out with all them muslamics that 'run prison.'


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 20, 2014)

Stuff like this always causes me brain farts. As an anarchist, I'm against the state. So I can't rejoice in any action the state takes against the individual, no matter how odious. Given it's the state that produces these people. So saying 'haha, we all knew all along you were a cunt' may be true, the whole inevitability of it doesn't sit comfortably with me. Or maybe all those black men in US correctional facilities really were born cunts.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 20, 2014)

you obviously dont know the story. they were released early on the proviso they cant knock about with their far right cronies. on release, cue cheap drugs, crap lager and sieg heiling with their far right cronies which they then posted on facebook thinking they are somehow immune from their conditions and then ...  
and comparison of UK to USA jail system is erroneous.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 20, 2014)

I guess you're not an anarchist.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 20, 2014)

At least we're all cut from the same cloth, when we'd agree that what these far right cunts really deserve, is a good hoofing.


----------



## miktheword (Jun 21, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> you obviously dont know the story. they were released early on the proviso they cant knock about with their far right cronies. on release, cue cheap drugs, crap lager and sieg heiling with their far right cronies which they then posted on facebook thinking they are somehow immune from their conditions and then ...
> and comparison of UK to USA jail system is erroneous.





Mal, I don't doubt your anti- fascism intent; but hope you realise that those who we are after for our side are precisely those who the fash currently find easier to attract, and many of theirs ended up as staunch anti fascists...but it is the condition of the working classes, that cheap drugs and crap lager are a staple..in fact, often means a good weekend.
sometimes your comments come across as sneering, giving the oppo confirmation to their recruits that all lefties are middle class who don't live your life and who look down on your culture.

those on EDL marches aren't there because they've had a few cans of crap lager.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

i challenge anyone to go on a TUC march and remain sober while listening to shithouse union leaders and lauborite liars.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 21, 2014)

i think the point was their arrogance and stupidity rather than their drugs of choice. Mik, the problems that the EDL have had with membership retention is exactly that 'those on EDL marches aren't there because they've had a few cans of crap lager.' those who were put back inside are 'Adolf Hitler-loving "14 words nazis" the "BRITISH INFIDELS" [who] are helping organise the Islamophobic anti-mosque march in Bolton this Saturday, as hardcore nazi groups fill the void.' these fuckbugles attacked what they thought were antifascist musicians. fuck em (sneaks off for a line o' cheap wizz and a wee bottle o' bucky).


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 21, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> i challenge anyone to go on a TUC march and remain sober while listening to shithouse union leaders and lauborite liars.


perhaps this is a new thread but i once saw rodney bickerstaffe at a TU march and he was a surprisingly good speaker and funny! any others? Benn always good.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 21, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> perhaps this is a new thread but i once saw rodney bickerstaffe at a TU march and he was a surprisingly good speaker and funny! any others? Benn always good.


Perhaps Bickerstaff missed his true vocation as he was a mediocre trade union leader.


----------



## krink (Jun 21, 2014)

in newcastle today I sat and watched a unity demo by sunni and shia muslimns from iraq saying they don't want war or isis terrorists. loads of kids and women taking the mic and leading chanting. great friendly atmosphere. Meanwhile in sunderland there's  a gang of fascists getting pissed and taking pictures of themselves outside some crappy boozer. I know which group made the biggest positive impression today!


----------



## J Ed (Jun 21, 2014)

krink said:


> in newcastle today I sat and watched a unity demo by sunni and shia muslimns from iraq saying they don't want war or isis terrorists.



Great stuff, I hope that they get what they want.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2014)

i saw both scargill and gerry adams and they were both very good speakers.


----------



## treelover (Jun 22, 2014)

Are you going to open up a polish fash watch after the events in Tottenham?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2014)

you need an account to check this youtube clip. but this is all i've seen. am hearing conflicting reports.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2014)

london antifascists have some info, pix etc on facebook.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2014)

London Antifascists: 
https://northlondonantifa.wordpress.com/2014/06/22/polish-fascists-in-london/


----------



## gamerunknown (Jun 23, 2014)

There's also a gathering at Tottenham Green today at 18:00.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 23, 2014)

Middlesbrough anti-EDL demo for this Saturday, the 28th:

https://www.facebook.com/TeessideSo...1655391251203/643306325752774/?type=1&theater


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 23, 2014)

There's a thread about the polish nazis attacking the music festival in Tottenham here:

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/problems-in-tottenham-today.324938/


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 23, 2014)

*interesting: 
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thousands-uk-muslims-hold-mass-peace-rally-1453603#.U6W_8fwmmkA.twitter*


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 24, 2014)

forward to 52 minutes. plod plans for EDL in sheff.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04863bl/police-under-pressure-1-uneasy-peace
stay with it till 56 onwards for the most ineffectual detention of a suspect ever.


----------



## laptop (Jun 24, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> *interesting:
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thousands-uk-muslims-hold-mass-peace-rally-1453603#.U6W_8fwmmkA.twitter*



But aren't the Ahmadi regarded as apostates by some Islamists, the _takfiri_ in particular? 

(True, they regard almost everyone as apostates. But:




> Both Ahmadi movements are considered non-Muslims by the Pakistan government



)


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 24, 2014)

i aint massively clued up on various strands of islam. just that 5,000 against extremism is more than the EDL cd ever hope to get these days.


----------



## miktheword (Jun 24, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> i think the point was their arrogance and stupidity rather than their drugs of choice. Mik, the problems that the EDL have had with membership retention is exactly that 'those on EDL marches aren't there because they've had a few cans of crap lager.' those who were put back inside are 'Adolf Hitler-loving "14 words nazis" the "BRITISH INFIDELS" [who] are helping organise the Islamophobic anti-mosque march in Bolton this Saturday, as hardcore nazi groups fill the void.' these fuckbugles attacked what they thought were antifascist musicians. fuck em (sneaks off for a line o' cheap wizz and a wee bottle o' bucky).





and if the point was their stupidity, perhaps make that point, and leave the sneering as to their drugs of choice to celebrate out of it. That was my point. If they had calmly discussed their predicament whilst quaffing a couple of glasses of merlot in a wine bar, would that have warranted a mention>

after the failure of 'Operation Blackshirt', I remember being bought free fizzy wine by the Searchlight team in the most local wine bar to the court. We  wasn't enjoying it (partly due to having to have a word with some city banker types who were being loudly sexist to some women drinkers) We repaired to one of the less celebrated pubs in North London, for some cheaper beer.  Nothing to be sneered at.

btw, I don't view fascism as 'stupid'. Rather a strategy for capitalism to go for in certain circumstances, if they're allowed to (if 'we' allow them)

Of British ruling class theoretical origin if I'm not mistaken.

Also, I can understand the attractions of the 'Right' way of thinking of many disenfranchised working class...especially given the alternative offered by the middle class condescending Trotskyists and the betrayals of social democracy that have dominated 'the Left' and that has been offered to them.

They are mostly on those marches, or attracted to them, or certainly have disdain for us, will rarely talk to us, because of *our* failure.. not *their* stupidity.

Otherwise, better education equals no far right, no fascism...which is clearly bollox.


When I have talked to those who are attracted to far right politics (and they are attracted mainly due to recognising their shit situation and want to change things), I have to spend the first part of any chat explaining the failures of the left, explaining away the (middle) class nature of those who claim to be revolutionaries and talk for the working classes, holding their lollipops, behind the police and barriers....have to explain away their sneering.

It doesn't help; it hinders. Leaves us starting at two nil down.


I could also argue, that it is the failure of The Left, the failure of their strategy over 100 years, that is stupid, as it hasn't worked.

For those same 'Left' to  continue to repeat that strategy....worse, for them to now even ask for the state to not only protect them, but to sanction the fascists, is more than stupid.

It is counter productive


----------



## treelover (Jun 24, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> *interesting:
> http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thousands-uk-muslims-hold-mass-peace-rally-1453603#.U6W_8fwmmkA.twitter*[URL='http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/thousands-uk-muslims-hold-mass-peace-rally-1453603#.U6W_8fwmmkA.twitter[/QUOTE'][/QUOTE][/URL]
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Wilf (Jun 25, 2014)

On the point about how 'the left' and/or liberals describe the edl, we've got them coming to Middlesbrough on Saturday. I dug out a youtube clip from the last time they were here and the comments are very telling.  Needless to say, the edl chants are fucking grim and racist, that goes without saying - FFS it's the edl!  But the sneering anti-working class comments below the video are in their own way almost as depresing:



For example:



> "this makes me ashamed ro be from Middlesbrough the only people walking around there are the dregs of society on benefits being racist drinking and on drugs pathetic mindless idiots that are doing nothing but making Middlesbrough and anywhere else they drag themselves an embarrassment the majority of them are in and out of prison for violence drug dealing and the rest waste of police time when theres people who need help or have been kidnapped or killed the police are just as bad for letting them carry on!"
> 
> "The dumbest people in society, right outside a university, how ironic."
> 
> ...


 
Youtube comments are not representative - of anything - and the people commenting may not be 'lefts' of any stripe, but they do illustrate the problem.  Detest the edl because they are racist fucks, not because they are working class.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

tbf youtube is full of comments people say on youtube because if they said it in the pub they'd be picking up their own teeth in short order


----------



## Wilf (Jun 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> tbf youtube is full of comments people say on youtube because if they said it in the pub they'd be picking up their own teeth in short order


 This one's better, give or take the 'thick' bit. In a monkeys and typewriters way, sometimes youtube gets it right. 



> "Who's streets?" not yours you fucking arseholes. Everyone of you pigshit thick as fuck racist cunts fuck off out of Boro. Do you have any clue at all about how the town was formed? Who built it, who supported its growth? It wasn't wankers like you. You lot are an embarrassment to a great town, thank fuck the majority of us in Boro are still great people who can see ignorant fucktards like you for the dirty shitbags you are. Fuck off out of my town. Cunts


----------



## treelover (Jun 25, 2014)

> "The dumbest people in society, right outside a university, how ironic."



No awareness who and how people get to university, etc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> No awareness who and how people get to university, etc.


some of the stupidest people i've met have had an alphabet after their names


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 25, 2014)

treelover said:


> No awareness who and how people get to university, etc.



Yep, and I've also met a few people who went to yooneh who are, well, a bit thick.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

its odd, once in the olden days it was free to go to uni, you got a grant and worked a part time job, but it was still seen as elite. Now w/c people are actively priced out of it by the thought of a 30-40k denbt and its all 'useless redbrick jumped up polytechnics giving out worthless degrees to oiks'

how did that happen. Probably best to blame clegg for now.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 26, 2014)

I am not sneering over their choice of stimulants – I am in no position to criticise ‘excessive recreational behaviour’ – but their actions whilst under the inluence: seig heiling, posting pix etc – which is impaired judgement that has stupid consequences, ie, get fucked up, brag about it and return to jail. That is stupid.

‘Also, I can understand the attractions of the 'Right' way of thinking of many disenfranchised working class...especially given the alternative offered by the middle class condescending Trotskyists and the betrayals of social democracy that have dominated 'the Left' and that has been offered to them.’

Mal: agreed. 

They are mostly on those marches, or attracted to them, or certainly have disdain for us, will rarely talk to us, because of*our* failure.. not*their* stupidity.

Mal: I am not sure antifascism has ‘failed’ and it is not antifascists fault that some people remain resolute nazis despite our best attempts.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 26, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> I am not sneering over their choice of stimulants – I am in no position to criticise ‘excessive recreational behaviour’ – but their actions whilst under the inluence: seig heiling, posting pix etc – which is impaired judgement that has stupid consequences, ie, get fucked up, brag about it and return to jail. That is stupid.
> 
> ‘Also, I can understand the attractions of the 'Right' way of thinking of many disenfranchised working class...especially given the alternative offered by the middle class condescending Trotskyists and the betrayals of social democracy that have dominated 'the Left' and that has been offered to them.’
> 
> ...



if you're in tottenham this weekend am happy to meet up over chumly ales to discuss.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 26, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Middlesbrough anti-EDL demo for this Saturday, the 28th:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/TeessideSo...1655391251203/643306325752774/?type=1&theater


 Quick update for anybody coming to this. Leaflet says assemble at 11.00, but as the fash aren't arriving till 1.00ish we won't be setting off till 12.00 or so. It pretty much means we'll be getting to the town centre at the time they are assembling.


----------



## miktheword (Jun 26, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> I am not sneering over their choice of stimulants – I am in no position to criticise ‘excessive recreational behaviour’ – but their actions whilst under the inluence: seig heiling, posting pix etc – which is impaired judgement that has stupid consequences, ie, get fucked up, brag about it and return to jail. That is stupid.
> 
> ‘Also, I can understand the attractions of the 'Right' way of thinking of many disenfranchised working class...especially given the alternative offered by the middle class condescending Trotskyists and the betrayals of social democracy that have dominated 'the Left' and that has been offered to them.’
> 
> ...





wasn't saying anti fascism failed; just that 'The Left' hasn't attracted those working class on EDL marches . I was part of an anti fascist grouping that succeeded in their aims. But it was only stopping something; point was to eventually replace it with something - and that means attracting those same working class to our cause. Evidently, that is still clearly failing in the 20 years since (some localised success by IWCA not withstanding).


'recreational use' helping them to get nicked again?....ok, well, good. If that was your intent. I was probably referring generally to a trend I've seen among some  anti fascists use of language and how it can be not only revealing but counter productive. We had to put up with it as well, in the 90s. If I misinterpreted your meaning, then perhaps it shows that more care needs to be taken with language use.


while we're at it, language, if I'm down on Saturday in 'Nam...it's definitely not 'Totters' ...practice 'Tottnam', if you're with me 

 not even Tott- en-ham..Ossie Ardiles might come across as more of a local than you.

As for if I'm down, ?...rarely am in that area these days, the 'soccer-ball' as you might say, doesn't grab me in the way it used to; used to be there every other week, late 70s, 80s and mid 90s.  

Depends what I've got on here. But will also have a look around to see if groups holding demo have done any work in the local area. A very rich mix of locals that may be got for anti fascism. Also, maybe not the kind of area outsiders might want to be caught in thinking they can stroll around like they own the manor. (applies to all any groups btw; not saying you or any anti fash are guilty of that ..haven't looked yet)

if not this time, then will be glad to meet up for a few beers another.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 27, 2014)

good luck to comrades in the Boro tomorrow! courtesy EDL:


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 29, 2014)

report on boro. piss poor EDL 'national demo' in an area where the far right are quite strong.
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/replay-edl-march-counter-demonstrations-7339372
me mate was there and reckons less than 200.


----------



## treelover (Jun 29, 2014)

You don't get it, people now have a 'legitimate' outlet for their frustrations in UKIP.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> You don't get it, people now have a 'legitimate' outlet for their frustrations in UKIP.


why do you think it is ok to tell people they "don't get it" ?


----------



## treelover (Jun 29, 2014)

Hah, that's all you and some others do all day to myself, wells, weltweit, etc.


----------



## juice_terry (Jun 29, 2014)

> A Counter demo spokesman has told demonstrators to avoid the areas that the EDL are reported to be.



So not really a counter demonstration then


----------



## juice_terry (Jun 29, 2014)

*Double post


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> Hah, that's all you and some others do all day to myself, wells, weltweit, etc.


pardon?


----------



## krink (Jun 29, 2014)

Boro for me signals the end of EDL at a national level. There was maybe 300 and this was a national call-out being held in one of their last strongholds. There may still be pockets of support at a regional level that require a watchful eye but 300 for a national is just shit. Even the NF can get 200 for their nationals and nobody takes them seriously. The policing was lax with clear opportunities for the 'hardmen' of the north east infidels to attack the anti-racist rally earlier on but they just skulked past hoping not to be noticed. A few very small groups of youngsters confronted the edl at their rally and all the edl did was cry to the police. Like I said earlier, they're finished.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 29, 2014)

thanks for the info krink!


----------



## krink (Jun 29, 2014)

just for the record i have looked at 5 videos of the different marches (several times, yes I've nowt else to do) and at their peak the EDL had 310 the anti-edl had 230. bear in mind the edl was a national call out and the anti-edl was almost entirely Boro people.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 29, 2014)

grand. cheers feller!


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 29, 2014)

krink said:


> Boro for me signals the end of EDL at a national level. There was maybe 300 and this was a national call-out being held in one of their last strongholds. There may still be pockets of support at a regional level that require a watchful eye but 300 for a national is just shit. Even the NF can get 200 for their nationals and nobody takes them seriously. The policing was lax with clear opportunities for the 'hardmen' of the north east infidels to attack the anti-racist rally earlier on but they just skulked past hoping not to be noticed. A few very small groups of youngsters confronted the edl at their rally and all the edl did was cry to the police. Like I said earlier, they're finished.



They were on their last legs in 2012. Then 2013 brought the killing of Lee Rigby and their numbers swelled that summer on the Newcastle demo. As shit as this turnout was there's still a lot of support when there's the right (or wrong) turn of events. 

I couldn't make it to the counter demo as I have childcare duties most weekends and this one I couldn't avoid because of other stuff going on. TSM, NEAF and SWP opted for a UAF style approach afaik which imo doesn't really challenge anything. Not that militant pavement work would though. These people need their ideas challenging directly and this has happened with some TSM and Swappies on a previous occasion.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2014)

we can say for definite that their leadership is weak, their numbers have shrunk (300 for a national?), lack any strategy and they are doomed to going round in circles every other weekend. as treelover says (his a priori rudery aside!) 'people now have a 'legitimate' outlet for their frustrations in UKIP.' so what to do about them?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 30, 2014)

Call them thick racists, fishwives, dole scroungers and alcoholics - the same way you 'defeated' the EDL


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 30, 2014)

For all the good (and bad) work done by anti-fascists, it does look like the EDL were ultimately defeated by their own incompetence. Which is still good, but a hollow victory.

And yes, the resentment the EDL tapped into is still there. It cannot be defeated by anti-fascism either:
http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Anti-fascism-isn-t-working/


----------



## Wilf (Jun 30, 2014)

juice_terry said:


> So not really a counter demonstration then


 This was always going to be a broad community response to the EDL, given the lack of numbers for anything more robust in the area.  The whole organising process was as non-sectarian as anything I've seen in the British 'left' for a while.  It ended up a bit more fluffy than I might have preferred personally, but once that was agreed, that's what we had to stick with.  However the lack of confrontation between the 2 events was as much as anything about timing.  We set ours for 11 and the edl didn't get details out till the day before (2.00 start). Particularly as we were seeking to get people involved who may not normally do demos, might not be on the facebook page to get updates, we felt we had to stick to that.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 30, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Call them thick racists, fishwives, dole scroungers and alcoholics - the same way you 'defeated' the EDL



i never called them any of that. drunk while on demos yes.


----------



## manny-p (Jun 30, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> i never called them any of that. drunk while on demos yes.


Your mates did though.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jun 30, 2014)

manny-p said:


> Your mates did though.


If a whole demo and anti demo is coming down to who called who what ,then I think this is a positive step forward!!!

Beats the bejeezuz out of town centres being trashed and innocent peeps getting injured!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 1, 2014)

manny-p said:


> Your mates did though.



so i'm responsible for what other people do? you're mate did a wee and missed the bowl. that's your fault that is.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 1, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> For all the good (and bad) work done by anti-fascists, it does look like the EDL were ultimately defeated by their own incompetence. Which is still good, but a hollow victory.
> 
> And yes, the resentment the EDL tapped into is still there. It cannot be defeated by anti-fascism either:
> http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Anti-fascism-isn-t-working/



on the positive side, antifascists mobilised en masse for most demos. the EDL were subject to: incompetence, infighting, reckless behaviour, a lot of grassing (to antifascists as well as plod), and as 1 poster said 'no endgame' to which must be added no strategy, no coherent programme and just a vague idea to 'ban muslamic extremists.'


----------



## Wilf (Jul 1, 2014)

On the issue of th edl being a fading force, I got the impression at the weekend they were obsessing on the grooming thing, to the point of simply shouting 'paedo' at any passing Asians.  Whilst they might get some minimal, brief and factually incorrect traction on that, it does smack of desparation.  In practice, it also seems like they've abandoned any realistic attempt at engaging with the white working class.  At the same time, as has been said, their failure can't really be seen as 'our' success.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah. No book. No people who know you. Nothing.


so, about that apology then 'comrade'? 

http://www.akpress.org/militant-anti-fascism.html


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 4, 2014)

Expect a scathing review.


----------



## The Black Hand (Jul 5, 2014)

This is a good write up of the Boro EDL events; http://antifascistnetwork.org/2014/07/01/boro-community-rejects-the-racist-edl/


----------



## The Black Hand (Jul 5, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> They were on their last legs in 2012. Then 2013 brought the killing of Lee Rigby and their numbers swelled that summer on the Newcastle demo. As shit as this turnout was there's still a lot of support when there's the right (or wrong) turn of events.
> 
> I couldn't make it to the counter demo as I have childcare duties most weekends and this one I couldn't avoid because of other stuff going on. TSM, NEAF and SWP opted for a UAF style approach afaik which imo doesn't really challenge anything. Not that militant pavement work would though. These people need their ideas challenging directly and this has happened with some TSM and Swappies on a previous occasion.



There simply is no mass militant anti fascist movement, & so the question is how we get there? From a standing start the Boro mobilisation was great for a number of reasons, and lets be clear about this, direct action simply is not in itself the long term political community and movement building that we need to swell the ranks of militant anti fascism. This is not to say that we are UAF, certainly not, & we hopefully are a synthesis of previous approaches, recognising the weaknesses of both whilst retaining the positives.

Here's a good quote from AFN which sums the current situation up; 
The counter-demo to the EDL was made up of local people, whereas the fascists had come from all over – some from as far away as London and Scotland. According to North East Anti-Fascists: “approximately 95% of the anti-fascists were from Teesside. Compare that with the EDL group made up of approximately 90% non-Teessiders. They made no significant inroads into the local population with this national demonstration – we built our strength and so it is us who are left in a stronger situation as a result of the fascist EDL national demonstration in Middlesbrough… We organised locally and did excellent outreach work, bringing new people into our organising networks”
It is this ongoing hard work of talking to people and getting out in the local area that sets down roots, building a constituency of opposition to the racists. This becomes vitally important if the EDL ever decide to come back to the area.
*Onward and Upward*
The next mobilisation for anti-fascists in the North is in Berwick-upon-Tweed this coming Saturday as the local TUC, supported by other anti-racists and anti-fascists organise to oppose a demo by the Scottish Defence League and the North East Infidels. Both these groups are even smaller and nastier splinter groups of the EDL."


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 18, 2014)

I am dismayed some anti fascist suport groups are supporting the British army and imperialism. How can you be anti fascist and support imperialism ? This is the end result of them having no deeper anti fascist ideology rather one just seeks to laugh at "chavs" and "dole dwellers".


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 18, 2014)

Which groups are doing that?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 18, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> I am dismayed some anti fascist suport groups are supporting the British army and imperialism. How can you be anti fascist and support imperialism ? This is the end result of them having no deeper anti fascist ideology rather one just seeks to laugh at "chavs" and "dole dwellers".



How do you reconcile criticism of anti-fascist groups because of their support for the British Army, with you encouraging people to join the Labour Party?


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 18, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Which groups are doing that?




Check out North East anti fascists on Facebook. Letter from a British army soldier.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 18, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> How do you reconcile criticism of anti-fascist groups because of their support for the British Army, with you encouraging people to join the Labour Party?




You are seeking to mislead, I said working class people should take over the Labour party in their communities and make it a working class political party from the grassroots up.


----------



## belboid (Jul 18, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> You are seeking to mislead, I said working class people should take over the Labour party in their communities and make it a working class political party from the grassroots up.


a tad hypocritical considering your supposed dismay at NEAF's supposed 'support' for British imperialism.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 18, 2014)

We all know that British Imperialism is based squarely on the formal support of the North East Anarchists.


----------



## krink (Jul 18, 2014)

As an anarchist in the north east I can confirm I devote 100% of my time to supporting British Imperialism.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 18, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Check out North East anti fascists on Facebook. Letter from a British army soldier.


and for those of us not on that facebook group?


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 18, 2014)

There you go. 162 likes.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 18, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> I am dismayed some anti fascist suport groups are supporting the British army and imperialism. How can you be anti fascist and support imperialism ? This is the end result of them having no deeper anti fascist ideology rather one just seeks to laugh at "chavs" and "dole dwellers".


I agree that the stuff about dole dwellers and chavs is deeply shit (was making a similar point a couple of pages ago myself).  But I'm still not clear why including/linking to this letter amounts to NEAF supporting the British Army or Imperialism?


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 18, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I agree that the stuff about dole dwellers and chavs is deeply shit (was making a similar point a couple of pages ago myself).  But I'm still not clear why including/linking to this letter amounts to NEAF supporting the British Army or Imperialism?




Its promoting a lie, the lie that the British army go abroad on heroic missions, not for the purpose of imperialism, you cant be an anti fascist and promote imperialism/oppression etc.Lets keep it real, the purpose of the British army is to act as the armed wing of capitalism, to invade countries, suppress the natives and at home act as scabs and counter revolutionaries when needed.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 18, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Its promoting a lie, the lie that the British army go abroad on heroic missions, not for the purpose of imperialism, you cant be an anti fascist and promote imperialism/oppression etc.Lets keep it real, the purpose of the British army is to act as the armed wing of capitalism, to invade countries, suppress the natives and at home act as scabs and counter revolutionaries when needed.


Where the fuck you get all that from I'm mightily  . It's on the NEAF page because of it's vague multicultural tone and he appears to be getting stuck into some racist MP.  I haven't seen it or the context, but if I was on that group I wouldn't be liking it, I'd be getting stuck into the 'chavs' stuff. However to see this as evidence that "some anti fascist suport groups are supporting the British army and imperialism" is _weird_.


----------



## krink (Jul 18, 2014)

There was quite a few anti-fascist in the army when those Nazis were knocking about...


----------



## krink (Jul 18, 2014)

It should be noted that NEAF are a broad-front type group as far as I'm aware. I'm not a member but that's what they appear to be judging by their Facebook page. So I don't see why they wouldn't post that picture (not that it implies support for imperialism anyway).


----------



## Wilf (Jul 18, 2014)

krink said:


> It should be noted that NEAF are a broad-front type group as far as I'm aware. I'm not a member but that's what they appear to be judging by their Facebook page. So I don't see why they wouldn't post that picture (not that it implies support for imperialism anyway).


Running dog, imperialist lackey!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 19, 2014)

krink said:


> There was quite a few anti-fascist in the army when those Nazis were knocking about...



43 group were ex-servicemen as were Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> 43 group were ex-servicemen as were Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen.




Big difference between the conscripts of WW2 and the mercenaries of today.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

krink said:


> There was quite a few anti-fascist in the army when those Nazis were knocking about...




There were quite a few anti Hitler in the Wehrmacht too.


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Its promoting a lie, the lie that the British army go abroad on heroic missions, not for the purpose of imperialism, you cant be an anti fascist and promote imperialism/oppression etc.Lets keep it real, the purpose of the British army is to act as the armed wing of capitalism, to invade countries, suppress the natives and at home act as scabs and counter revolutionaries when needed.


You're a bit of a moron, aren't you?  Tho we already knew that from your idiotic Labour Party project. Silly little boy.


----------



## krink (Jul 19, 2014)

Regardless of what the function of the armed forces is or isn't, I still don't see how NEAF, a broad-front anti-fash group, is supporting imperialism by showing a photo where a soldier illustrates that the far right groups' claims to have support from the armed forces personnel are bullshit.NEAF isn't a revolutionary front afaik.

I have some problems with some of NEAF's ideas but at least they aren't proposing people vote for the Labour Party whose commitment to british imperialism is well documented.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Big difference between the conscripts of WW2 and the mercenaries of today.




economic conscription?


----------



## Corax (Jul 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> economic conscription?


I'd love to see someone smart with databases put together a map showing forces recruitment office locations along with areas of economic deprivation.  I suspect there'd be something of a correlation...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2014)

Corax said:


> I'd love to see someone smart with databases put together a map showing forces recruitment office locations along with areas of economic deprivation.  I suspect there'd be something of a correlation...




its not that long since the sent-to-a-recruitment-office-by-the-magistrate used to happen.


----------



## Corax (Jul 19, 2014)

Corax said:


> I'd love to see someone smart with databases put together a map showing forces recruitment office locations along with areas of economic deprivation.  I suspect there'd be something of a correlation...


Crispy ?


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

belboid said:


> You're a bit of a moron, aren't you?  Tho we already knew that from your idiotic Labour Party project. Silly little boy.



Is that the best response you have lol, smug superiority.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

krink said:


> Regardless of what the function of the armed forces is or isn't, I still don't see how NEAF, a broad-front anti-fash group, is supporting imperialism by showing a photo where a soldier illustrates that the far right groups' claims to have support from the armed forces personnel are bullshit.NEAF isn't a revolutionary front afaik.
> 
> I have some problems with some of NEAF's ideas but at least they aren't proposing people vote for the Labour Party whose commitment to british imperialism is well documented.




How to you think young Muslims feel about this promotion . Its becoming clear why they have formed their own anti fascist group.`

The `EDL do have support from some squaddies, thats a fact, it goes with the territory.


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Is that the best response you have lol, smug superiority.


Nothing smug. Plenty superior. You have a go at someone for distorting your utterly unfeasible plan to take over the Labour Party,and then utterly distort someone else's opinion so that you can pose as a ultra hard anti-imperialist. I afraid all you end up looking like is a bad joke.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

belboid said:


> Nothing smug. Plenty superior. You have a go at someone for distorting your utterly unfeasible plan to take over the Labour Party,and then utterly distort someone else's opinion so that you can pose as a ultra hard anti-imperialist. I afraid all you end up looking like is a bad joke.



Stop misrepresenting and posturing its only making you look insecure and weak.

I am an anti imperialist, I see the bigger picture and understand fascism is more then blokes at EDL demos shouting Enngerland.


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> I am an anti imperialist.


You're a joke and an irrelevance.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

belboid said:


> You're a joke and an irrelevance.



Stop trying to act the big man.


----------



## belboid (Jul 19, 2014)

Oh the ironing.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> I am an anti imperialist, I see the bigger picture and understand fascism is more then blokes at EDL demos shouting Enngerland.


I haven't followed your stuff on the grand Labour Party takeover (think they used to call that entryism?).  However on the evidence of this thread you seem to be a daft bastard.  Labour Party Anti-Imperialism, fuck me! How does it feel to be the father of a million dead etc.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I haven't followed your stuff on the grand Labour Party takeover (think they used to call that entryism?).  However on the evidence of this thread you seem to be a daft bastard.  Labour Party Anti-Imperialism, fuck me! How does it feel to be the father of a million dead etc.



You are proving why the left is irrelevant.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2014)

The left.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 19, 2014)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The left.


The EDL


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 19, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> The EDL


The who


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 19, 2014)

shake it all about


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

I have come to the conclusion the British left are not serious about their politics, you are hobbyists. Islam is the only transnational force capable of standing up the enslavement of nations. From now on the only anti fascists I will work with shall be Irish Republicans and Muslims.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 19, 2014)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The who


Sorry john, thought you were saying something, My apols


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> I have come to the conclusion the British left are not serious about their politics, you are hobbyists. Islam is the only transnational force capable of standing up the enslavement of nations. From now on the only anti fascists I will work with shall be Irish Republicans and Muslims.


Small group.  Turned up here spouting ***. Nah. Spotted. Bye then.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> I have come to the conclusion the British left are not serious about their politics, you are hobbyists. Islam is the only transnational force capable of standing up the enslavement of nations. From now on the only anti fascists I will work with shall be Irish Republicans and Muslims.



Called this trolling weeks ago


----------



## killer b (Jul 19, 2014)

wow, what?


----------



## rekil (Jul 19, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Called this trolling weeks ago


Round up the usual suspects.


----------



## krink (Jul 19, 2014)

I've read that book that Red Action wrote. Even they say they had ex squaddie in London AFA. The imperialist dogs. But yeah, that Islamist/republican post was a give away. Obvious troll is obvious etc.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

krink said:


> I've read that book that Red Action wrote. Even they say they had ex squaddie in London AFA. The imperialist dogs. But yeah, that Islamist/republican post was a give away. Obvious troll is obvious etc.




There were ex squaddies in the IRA. There were ex fascists in Red Action, The difference being they renounced their past. They never promoted it. Your logic is not very good, hence you resort to silly accusations.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> There were ex squaddies in the IRA. There were ex fascists in Red Action, The difference being they renounced their past. They never promoted it. Your logic is not very good, hence you resort to silly accusations.



Give it a rest mate


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Give it a rest mate



In your best mockney.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 19, 2014)

what accent does the trolling persona you've created speak with?


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

J Ed said:


> what accent does the trolling persona you've created speak with?



Because I have a different opinion Im a troll ?

What kind of a petty little mind is that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2014)

J Ed said:


> what accent does the trolling persona you've created speak with?


Kalfindin affects a belfast accent when posting in character as a sinn feiner, although not one with much knowledge of the politics.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> Check out North East anti fascists on Facebook. Letter from a British army soldier.


I'm not on facebook anymore but I actually know a fair few folk in NEAF and you're talking out of your backside.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm not on facebook anymore but I actually know a fair few folk in NEAF and you're talking out of your backside.



So the letter is not on the site ? Is that what you are saying ?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> So the letter is not on the site ? Is that what you are saying ?


I'm saying that the people involved who I know aren't 'imperialists'. I think the facebook page is controlled by NEA.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm saying that the people involved who I know aren't 'imperialists'. I think the facebook page is controlled by NEA.



You need to tell them to stop allowing racists to post on their page.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 19, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> You need to tell them to stop allowing racists to post on their page.


Your commitment to anti-anti-fascist-pro-Islamic-Republican-trolly-New Labourism does you considerable credit.


----------



## Kalfindin (Jul 19, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Your commitment to anti-anti-fascist-pro-Islamic-Republican-trolly-New Labourism does you considerable credit.



Why do you seek to misrepresent ? It shows a lack of character.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 20, 2014)

hiz hiz hiz


----------



## Nigel (Jul 20, 2014)

Apparently N* F is organising a demo in Oxford. Come across one of the characters a few years back; D ave Moore.Anyone come across him recently? Any info on where they are trying to have this; Cowley I suppose.
http://www.oxforduaf.org.uk/index.php/8-emails-hidden/4-open-letter


----------



## Nigel (Jul 20, 2014)

Kalfindin or whoever they are seems to have very little knowledge of Arab Middle Eastern politics either looking at other threads.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2014)

piss poor turnout by the South East Alliance in Cricklewood. antifash chanting 'all 7 nazis off our streets.'

meanwhile, doing something relevant:


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 20, 2014)

crivvens! a busy weekend for the left!
http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/GOING-FOR-GOLDING../


----------



## articul8 (Jul 21, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> piss poor turnout by the South East Alliance in Cricklewood. antifash chanting 'all 7 nazis off our streets.'


 
"Seven English Arseholes" was my favourite

Here's what the local rag had to say:
http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/...ast_alliance_at_cricklewood_protest_1_3692949


----------



## october_lost (Jul 21, 2014)

Kalfindin said:


> There were ex squaddies in the IRA. There were ex fascists in Red Action, The difference being they renounced their past. They never promoted it. Your logic is not very good, hence you resort to silly accusations.


I think I read somewhere AFA did have Territorials involved. I always wondered how this went down with the pro-IRA section of the organisation, or was it just a sign of the times.


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 21, 2014)

october_lost said:


> I think I read somewhere AFA did have Territorials involved. I always wondered how this went down with the pro-IRA section of the organisation, or was it just a sign of the times.



In Glasgow and they were Rangers fans. 

Framed has spoke about it on here.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 25, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Apparently N* F is organising a demo in Oxford. Come across one of the characters a few years back; D ave Moore.Anyone come across him recently? Any info on where they are trying to have this; Cowley I suppose.
> http://www.oxforduaf.org.uk/index.php/8-emails-hidden/4-open-letter


Regarding this.
There is a counter demo tomorrow contact/pm me or others who may know if info if you are interested!


----------



## krink (Jul 26, 2014)

[Removed at request of poster - Lazy Llama]


----------



## Nigel (Jul 27, 2014)

Apparently people were arrested in UAF contingent yesterday in Oxford. Does anyone know anything about this?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 28, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Apparently people were arrested in UAF contingent yesterday in Oxford. Does anyone know anything about this?


http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11...n_far_right_group_and_ant_fascists/?ref=var_0

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-28505418

All seem to be jumped up charges - resisting arrest ("_resisting a constable in execution of duty_") and nicking a flag


----------



## Nigel (Jul 28, 2014)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11...n_far_right_group_and_ant_fascists/?ref=var_0
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-28505418
> 
> All seem to be jumped up charges - resisting arrest ("_resisting a constable in execution of duty_") and nicking a flag



Article from Oxford Mail
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/11...bance_at_Gloucester_Green_bus_station/?ref=ar


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 28, 2014)

> POLICE had to keep rival protesters apart as hundreds took to the streets in Southampton over the escalating crisis in war-torn Gaza.
> Officers were forced to step in as tempers flared when far-right activists attempted to confront pro-Palestinian marchers.
> 
> http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/113...Gaza_protest_takes_to_streets_of_Southampton/



Wankers.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2014)

and in Cardiff mate
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/gaza-protest-cardiff-officers-defend-7517370


----------



## Red Storm (Jul 28, 2014)

ddraig said:


> and in Cardiff mate
> http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/gaza-protest-cardiff-officers-defend-7517370



That fella's still trying to sell Socialist Worker in the middle of that ruck


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2014)

he used to post on here!


----------



## intersol32 (Jul 28, 2014)

BBC have some great footage of a big lad hopping the fence and belting the Fascist fuckjobs with a chair. Well done to that man!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-28509791


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2014)

they are very lucky some people and elders stepped in to calm it down, those bastards would've been demolished


----------



## treelover (Jul 28, 2014)

intersol32 said:


> BBC have some great footage of a big lad hopping the fence and belting the Fascist fuckjobs with a chair. Well done to that man!!
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-28509791



Guy was a psycho that in other circumstances would be described as a thug

I don't get the love of violence you get on here from some, I saw it here when the EDL came to town:, the anti's were using all the same jumping on the spot, flailing arms, etc that the football hoolies use.

and no I'm not condoning the bottle throwing at the crowd, etc.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2014)

treelover said:


> Guy was a psycho that in other circumstances would be described as a thug



the people drinking at the bar reportedly said some pretty nasty things, threw beer over peaceful marchers including children in pushcahirs and threw the chairs into the crowd before this happened


----------



## treelover (Jul 28, 2014)

I've just said that, but some of the characters on these demo's are 'up for it' 

its a peace march , isn't it?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2014)

treelover said:


> I've just said that, but some of the characters on these demo's are 'up for it'


what do you mean? it was a peaceful A to B march 

please tell me how you would react if this happened to you and yours?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2014)

treelover said:


> Guy was a psycho that in other circumstances would be described as a thug
> 
> I don't get the love of violence you get on here from some, I saw it here when the EDL came to town:, the anti's were using all the same jumping on the spot, flailing arms, etc that the football hoolies use.
> 
> and no I'm not condoning the bottle throwing at the crowd, etc.



You've edited this post three times now. Is this an indication that you're regretting the stupid context free first post? The one that simply said:


> Guy was a psycho that in other circumstances would be described as a thug


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2014)

thanks butchers

why do you do this treelover ?


----------



## treelover (Jul 28, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> You've edited this post three times now. Is this an indication that you're regretting the stupid context free first post? The one that simply said:



best keep it for your files then.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2014)

treelover said:


> best keep it for your files then.


Grow up ffs. We all post stupid things in the heat of the moment - trying to rectify it means that we recognise this and so we start again but from a common basis. Just calling people thugs doesn't do this. As i think you, if you weren't such a defensive clown would see that you were trying to do - weren't you? Or were you actually trying to amplify your original stupidity?

So so sick of you.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2014)

again treelover it was a peaceful march that was attacked, the man you are questioning reacted to the attack. there was another incident just around the corner a little while before this

he wasn't up for it and there was no lust for violence on the side of the marchers, everything was calmed down really quickly considering, testament to the marchers with no wish for violence.

it was just for Gaza, that is all


----------



## krink (Jul 28, 2014)

I was at the rally in Newcastle. I went because of the kids much like my own being blown up in their homes. The EDL turned up shouting bomb bomb Palestine and worse. Nobody on the rally was there for trouble - loads brought kids for example - but had those EDL bastards been nearer and shouting their shite then I reckon I would have swung a few myself.
*edited cos of daft phone


----------



## laptop (Jul 29, 2014)

Was this guy one of theirs?



> A man has admitted stealing £300,000 intended for the armed forces charity Help for Heroes.
> 
> Christopher Copeland, 51, from Devon, gathered teams of fundraisers to collect donations from the public across England and Wales.
> 
> ...


----------



## miktheword (Jul 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> Guy was a psycho that in other circumstances would be described as a thug
> 
> I don't get the love of violence you get on here from some, I saw it here when the EDL came to town:, the anti's were using all the same jumping on the spot, flailing arms, etc that the football hoolies use.
> 
> and no I'm not condoning the bottle throwing at the crowd, etc.





ffs  Tree lover..

you seem to have  learnt nothing from even recent history.

 I remember you stating something similar years back on the Beating the Fascists thread. Have you not even grasped the basics that if there weren't people 'up for it' , you would not be able to have peaceful marches , if the oppo weren't  sufficiently wary, or any marches, if there weren't any 'up for it'.

and those that you call 'pyschos and thugs'...even 'football' sorts,... put themselves, their lives, houses, jobs, marriages, seeing their kids, up for grabs.


'love of violence'?! have you no idea?!.. actually I don't think you have. Violence is a tactic, not a principle...one that can not only lead to a life changing fit up and and conviction on any day out that these 'thugs/psychos' were on, but an injury ..brain damage from any strike to the head...that's what these 'people' are risking...so you can have the next march..

in my experience, those of your thinking were a hindrance to those seeking to gain the support of those who mattered...the local working class. They don't seem to have respect for those who clamour for support from the same state that is shaping their lives.  When these middle class interlopers would turn up in an area, with no ground work, get done...doing more damage than if they weren't there!

haven't you grasped that yet, even from Brick Lane 80 years ago?

so plot it out for me..

what would happen if those 'up for it' weren't there?

what would happen on the next march?...would there be a next march?!

from experience, I can tell you , there would be more of the opposition..after such an easy day out.

and you and those of your thinking would be pleading for the state to protect you, writing to your mps for bans on them...

makes the left look good doesn't it?...to those who we want to recruit ?

'love of violence?!'   how about glad, yes to inflict some on them as a means to fuck off from this area...think twice about getting a few of your mates to come for the easy day out lefty bashing next time...just a load of tree lovers there, it'll be easy'...

 for us, glad to get home in one piece...even then, wait for the knock on the door and subsequent fit up with life on hold for the next year. Love of violence , yeah. always seem to bemoaning the lack of activity of many...but what do you actually risk?...wouldn't normally ask, and not slating any effort you do, but what do you risk, whilst you slag off the thugs and the pyschos who risk everything,,,health, jobs, houses, family...?


ffs.

we'd be lambs to the slaughter.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 29, 2014)

...  and as an aside, the 'peaceful marchers' and 'up for it' lot are not always 2 different species. Very often the same people in different circumstances, different day - yes, it's about tactics.  When the EDL were in Boro we had a text book 'peaceful march' but when there was a shout out later on about a breakaway lot going into an Asian area we got round there sharpish (false alarm as it turned out).


----------



## ddraig (Jul 29, 2014)

more from Cardiff, 3mins 40 seconds in http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04bbc50/bbc-wales-today-28072014
heard from somewhere else that it may have been organised tho can't see it myself

ready to apologise yet treelover ?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jul 29, 2014)

The guy who jumped the barrier is a hero. He single handedly stopped the racists in their tracks by taking the initiative to them. He stopped people from getting hurt by  unnerving the attackers and turning their attention away from the marchers. They probably thought they were being confronted by more than one bloke. From then on they weren't so brave because they felt vulnerable behind their barrier. It's a shame that 20 didn't jump over. Would that have been such a bad thing for the image of the demonstration?

I don't know who is more stupid, the racists who will boast it was a victory, or the guy with the socialist worker trying to calm things down. What kind of fucked up leadership is that? Calm people down while they are being attacked but turn your back on the attackers? What did he think the thugs would do? FFS, they had already attacked a peaceful march. You can't just ignore that and walk on like nothing has happened because it will only grow. 

The SWP has absolutely no cred with the working class. Fucking toys R us revolutionaries.


----------



## Jay Park (Jul 30, 2014)

we're this lot an organized click or just a load of wankers drinking fosters lager in a shit walkabout bar.........?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 30, 2014)

there is some suggestion that it was organised, as I said upthread not sure myself but happy to be proved wrong, well not happy but you know. apparently being at a pub on the route of a march has been done in the past.
also there has been a "promise" of a demo against Muslims in Cardiff now after this as the racists are claiming all sorts and that innocent white drinkers were attacked blah blah


----------



## intersol32 (Jul 30, 2014)

ddraig said:


> there is some suggestion that it was organised, as I said upthread not sure myself but happy to be proved wrong, well not happy but you know. apparently being at a pub on the route of a march has been done in the past.
> also there has been a "promise" of a demo against Muslims in Cardiff now after this as the racists are claiming all sorts and that innocent white drinkers were attacked blah blah



Either way, the decision to start hacking bottles etc and begin racist chanting was a poor one on their behalf. They obviously didn't get the desired response they wanted and instead were faced with quite a lot of angry folk who were prepared to defend themselves and the march.

Added to this is the actual televised humiliation of them getting a well deserved slap which has no doubt prompted a handful to try and claim to be organizing a "march against Muslims" (I know they've "promised" but the gobbing off the majority of racist idiots indulge in usually outweights actual physical activity - we'll wait and see anyway).

Bit of brass neck for them to talk about "innocent white drinkers" when they thought they'd got the upper hand by throwing stuff at a crowd that also contained many innocent women and children out for the day.

What it boils down to is a bunch of mouthy semi-drunk wankers (organized or otherwise) who shit themselves and ran as soon as it was put up to them, and now they want to cry about it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 30, 2014)

Yet treelover is appealing to people to not defend themselves. Else they be 'as bad' as fucking Hitler. Or thugs. Or whatever.

Gaia will protect the peace march.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 30, 2014)

intersol32 said:


> Bit of brass neck for them to talk about "innocent white drinkers" when they thought they'd got the upper hand by throwing stuff at a crowd that also contained many innocent women and children out for the day.
> 
> What it boils down to is a bunch of mouthy semi-drunk wankers (organized or otherwise) who shit themselves and ran as soon as it was put up to them, and now they want to cry about it.


 Only thing I'd say is, purely from the short video, the ones who got clocked with the bar stool and table were pretty much on the periphery of it - they _could_ have been bystanders, they _could_ have been shouting abuse (if the latter, fuck 'em).  I'm not going all treelover on this and I agree with what everybody has said about fighting back against the fash. It's just, to make the obvious point, violence is rarely a precise art.  It can be, when you've got identifiable targets or some similar scenario, but not in circs like this. Don't get me wrong, the fash caused this, they got what was coming to them and the bloke who waded in did right.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 1, 2014)

intersol32 said:


> BBC have some great footage of a big lad hopping the fence and belting the Fascist fuckjobs with a chair. Well done to that man!!
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-28509791


Same incident from a different angle from about 1m30 here:


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 1, 2014)

when this ^ starts an ad for injury comp shows up. how appropriate.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 2, 2014)

A small gaggle of chanting EDL out in Leeds today heckling a Palistine solidarity march according to a friend on FB (their picture). Nobody gave them the attention they were seeking.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 6, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> A small gaggle of chanting EDL out in Leeds today heckling a Palistine solidarity march according to a friend on FB (their picture). Nobody gave them the attention they were seeking.
> 
> View attachment 58801


looking very anonymous - a distinct lack of flags, EDL hoddies etc!


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2014)

and the boro:
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/peaceful-vigil-became-noisy-protest-7575211


----------



## ddraig (Aug 7, 2014)

only 3 comments! and one of them sensible


----------



## Thunderfist (Aug 10, 2014)

EDL in Batley yesterday - around the 300 mark. They were opposed by 30-40 anti fash, with another 70-90 UAF types in a car park a few hundred yards away. Virtually no locals turned out to oppose them.


----------



## Thunderfist (Aug 10, 2014)

http://antifascistnetwork.org/2014/08/10/batley-report/


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 10, 2014)

What the suffering fuck has Gaza got to do with 'English defence', and supporting Israel as the hierarchical big dick in the equation must cause blood vessel-splitting cognitive dissonance for the supremacists latching on.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 11, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> What the suffering fuck has Gaza got to do with 'English defence', and supporting Israel as the hierarchical big dick in the equation must cause blood vessel-splitting cognitive dissonance for the supremacists latching on.



Yeah, it's a wierd developement. Maybe they associate the Palestinians with Al Queda, as this lie has been peddled in some media. Another thing was the shadowy pro israel/zionist linked group who helped fund the EDL at the beginning. This could have had some lasting influence, and my last guess is that they think everyone who supports the Palestinians is UAF or something so have taken the contrary stance out of spite. They'll be standing guard at animal laboratories or defending seal culls soon.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 11, 2014)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yeah, it's a wierd developement. Maybe they associate the Palestinians with Al Queda, as this lie has been peddled in some media. Another thing was the shadowy pro israel/zionist linked group who helped fund the EDL at the beginning. This could have had some lasting influence, and my last guess is that they think everyone who supports the Palestinians is UAF or something so have taken the contrary stance out of spite. They'll be standing guard at animal laboratories or defending seal culls soon.



Yes, Alan Ayling/Lake was very much pro the Israeli state, and who could forget the "leader" of the EDL Jewish Divison, Roberta Moore (one of life's great charmers), who was happy to express her support for the Jewish Defence League (aren't they proscribed as a terrorist organsation in the US?) - this of course went down with the more BNP/NF-happy element of the EDL like the proverbial lead balloon.  Interesting you mention the "defending animal laboratories" thing, as (ironically?) fascists joined the Animal Liberation Front during the 80's and early 90's, and ALF founder Ronnie Lee had no problems with this at all!


----------



## krink (Aug 11, 2014)

I've asked EDL supporters. They said two things 1. Muslims are all terrorists, Israel kills Muslims so are good 2. One or two picked up on the Palestine/IRA links. 
I haven't heard any sophisticated Zionist support just 'Jews hate muzzies so we like Jews"


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Yet treelover is appealing to people to not defend themselves. Else they be 'as bad' as fucking Hitler. Or thugs. Or whatever.
> 
> Gaia will protect the peace march.


what if gaia's busy that day?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 29, 2014)

Fash have cancelled their planned demo that was to be held in Colchester on Sept 6th.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 29, 2014)

Bets on for it happening in Rotherham instead.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 29, 2014)

I wouldn't bet against that, that's for sure!


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 29, 2014)

It's their new Lee Rigby. Expect t'Wat-more to be producing Paedophile badges and peddling them on Ebay.


----------



## Limerick Red (Aug 30, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I wouldn't bet against that, that's for sure!


Rotherham was due to be a regional demo anyway on the 13th, they've postposed colchester and upgraded rotherham to a national demo,


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 30, 2014)

And it looks like every flavour of fash might be rolling up there......... the smelly flavour, the drunk flavour, the coked up flavour..... could be interesting in the middle of it all, with a few scores needing settling!


----------



## Limerick Red (Aug 30, 2014)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> And it looks like every flavour of fash might be rolling up there......... the smelly flavour, the drunk flavour, the coked up flavour..... could be interesting in the middle of it all, with a few scores needing settling!


According to dubious sorces the edl turned over the nf yesterday whilst shouting "nazi scum off our streets" , britian first were ran as well apparently !


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 30, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> According to dubious sorces the edl turned over the nf yesterday whilst shouting "nazi scum off our streets" , britian first were ran as well apparently !



Any more on this? 

Apparently Paul Pitt was nicked in Cricklewood today - I don't have much time for plod, but this put a wry smile on my face


----------



## Limerick Red (Aug 31, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Any more on this?
> 
> Apparently Paul Pitt was nicked in Cricklewood today - I don't have much time for plod, but this put a wry smile on my face


Unfortunately Pitt was released within 15 mins and back on the demo


----------



## laptop (Aug 31, 2014)

What you might call a "colour piece":



> ...the English Defence League has been camping outside [Rotherham] police station since Wednesday. Its aim, in the first instance, is to force the resignation of Shaun Wright, the police and crime commissioner for South Yorkshire. But, said Ian Crossland, the 42-year-old leader of the group, "It's been 16 years, 1,400 cases. More than one man was responsible for that."
> 
> There are probably 40 people there, though there have been as many as 200 in the week. They have a little commune of tents, and a huge number of crisps. "For five years, I've been travelling around this country, telling people what's going on," said Andrew Edge, another EDL member. "I've been spat at. I've had urine poured on me. All I want to do is get the message across. Because it's not just Rotherham. Preston's got a major problem. Dewsbury is absolutely full of it, I've seen it with my own eyes".
> 
> ...


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 31, 2014)

WTF...... sounds like he enjoys it........._ "I've had urine poured on me"_


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 31, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Any more on this?
> 
> Apparently Paul Pitt was nicked in Cricklewood today - I don't have much time for plod, but this put a wry smile on my face



http://www.demotix.com/news/5639352...ast-alliance-cricklewood-london#media-5639316


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 31, 2014)

edit


----------



## gamerunknown (Aug 31, 2014)

Was anyone else harangued by an irascible liberal at the Cricklewood demo? She instructed someone that we protesters didn't want to promote suicide and that they ought not to chant "follow your leader". She then directed her scorn towards me for pointing out that the police protect the fascists, admonishing me with the novel observation that the police were there to protect both sides. A message which I'm sure would have been appreciated in Ferguson or Malmo...


----------



## Thunderfist (Aug 31, 2014)

Trouble is - I've heard people shouting "Police protect the fascists" when there's been 350 of them and thirty of us. Serious need of a reality check.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 1, 2014)

laptop said:


> What you might call a "colour piece":


I find this rather disturbing. Are our streets to be policed by tattotoed pumped up hard men who are kept informed of society's failings by the redtops?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 1, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I find this rather disturbing. Are our streets to be policed by tattotoed pumped up hard men who are kept informed of society's failings by the redtops?



What does that mean?


----------



## J Ed (Sep 1, 2014)

BTW isn't the ignorant view of tattooed people as some monolith of EDL supporters demonstrably false by any walk outside somewhere where you can see that most of the people walking about with tattoos are hipster twats?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 1, 2014)

J Ed said:


> What does that mean?


It means look at the guy in the picture associated with the guardian article.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 1, 2014)

J Ed said:


> BTW isn't the ignorant view of tattooed people as some monolith of EDL supporters demonstrably false by any walk outside somewhere where you can see that most of the people walking about with tattoos are hipster twats?


I haven't made the assumption that all tattooed people are EDL supporters.


----------



## Nigel (Sep 7, 2014)

Apparently its all hitting off in Pompey


----------



## Fingers (Sep 9, 2014)

Tattoo wise, I think it is easy to tell and EDLer as their tats are utter shite (generalising a bit there but the far right do seem to have the monopoly of utterly shit tattoos - usually involving a faded St G cross, some templar knights or some wank EDL emblem which they are going to have to explain away when the EDL are long forgotten)


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 9, 2014)

And we could always brand with hot irons the rest and identify them that way. Or by the quality of their dental work.


----------



## framed (Sep 10, 2014)

Nigel said:


> Apparently its all hitting off in Pompey


----------



## ddraig (Sep 13, 2014)

kicking off in Rotherham
https://twitter.com/AntiFascistNetw


----------



## krink (Sep 13, 2014)

well that's interesting...edl and nf+nwi+others having a punch-up. #schadenfreude


----------



## gawkrodger (Sep 13, 2014)

word I would use is _amusing_


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 14, 2014)

depressing. 
Latest 'Malatesta' on Rotherham. Additional contributions welcome. 
http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2014/09/14/the-vultures-of-rotherham-3/


----------



## Theisticle (Sep 14, 2014)

Fucking scum:


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 14, 2014)

Still not laughing at the English Defence League

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Sometimes a caption is too.

While looking for coverage of the far-right’s attempts to exploit the tragedy in Rotherham to stir up a bit of cheap publicity, I stumbled across something that stuck in my head and bothered me in a way that silly facebook posts don’t normally do. The post in question was from “Patriots Against Society”, one of the myriad of daft EDL News-style pages and accounts that parody the far right:

 

Something about the combination of that banner and that “antifascist” response really gets to me. It’s a powerful message: drawing on a memory of class hatred of the police going back thirty years to their actions as an occupying army in the miners’ strike, making links between the contempt shown for working-class football fans in the wake of the Hillsborough disaster and the contempt for young working-class girls that enabled the horrific abuse in Rotherham to go on for so long. And what do “anti-racists” have to say in response? “Lol, look at the thickos who can’t spell.”

The case against “anti-fascist” snobbery has been made before, of course, but it seems to be one of those arguments that needs to be made time and time again. The situation in Rotherham is a difficult and complicated one - I’m not used to finding myself agreeing with the demands put forward by far-right groups, but it’s hard to see how anyone could disagree with the EDL’s demand that Shaun Wright needs to go. The standard UAF model of organising demos where the speakers’ platform is a lash-up between the SWP and local bigwigs was never that good to start with, but it could be terrifyingly counter-productive in a situation like Rotherham, where a platform dominated by Weyman Bennett and local councillors would look like a who’s who of abuse enablers.

Orgreave, Hillsborough, Rotherham. The person who made that banner was angry, and they had good reasons for being angry, and the fact that they were out marching with the EDL should give us pause for thought. In a situation like this, the need for an anti-fascist movement that’s populist, anti-state, anti-establishment and can talk about class is more urgent than ever [...]​http://nothingiseverlost.wordpress.com/2014/09/14/still-not-laughing-at-the-english-defence-league/


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## Fozzie Bear (Sep 15, 2014)

Vice article makes the same point about the credibility of the SWP
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/edl-rotherham-sex-abuse-scandal-simon-childs-jake-lewis-2014-837


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## Kev Scott LTJ (Sep 16, 2014)

Presumably the EDL will now piss off from Rotherham cop shop: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29220535
Just leaving behind piss stains on the wall and a huge pile of empty cans?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Sep 29, 2014)

So, they are all but gone, like a turd that has progressed beyond the dry white stain on the grass phase and has lost it's capacity to intimidate. 

What have been the political lessons, and, has anyone, apart from posters here, taken them on board?

Why did their leadership really jump ship and what are they doing now?

Can UAF claim any credit for their demise and what state have they left anti-fascism in?

How dangerous are the openly fascist groups that emerged more emboldened from the EDl milieu?

Did the EDl achieve anything, and what was their true aim in the first place?


----------



## Thunderfist (Sep 30, 2014)

Unfortunately despite the earnest wishes of everyone on the left they haven't gone. They're in Birmingham on October 11th and will no doubt return to Rotherham and London. They are certainly smaller than they were but can still pull hundreds out.

One political lessons is that it is actually quite easy to whip up a far-right mob.

The leadership is a vexed question. Certainly Tinpot Tommy didn't assert himself as the leader until around the beginning of 2011. It was his seizure of the mantle that led to the first splinterings. The EDL do not have an internal structure as most leftists understand it and thus leadership went to whoever asserted it most loudly in the press. Tommy's depature for the Quillam foundation was probably a move to get a smaller sentence in the mortgage fraud trial that he knew was on the horizon at the time.

The UAF did consistently oppose them, often under very unpromising circumstances. The AFN have adopted a more cherry-picking approach, opposing as and when they felt a militant response was possible. Certainly the UAF presence at every EDL outing meant that both sides were generally kettled and the EDL were not able to wander about the streets to fraternise with locals and hand out leaflets. The implosion of the SWP has  hurt the UAFs ability to mobilise the numbers. 

One side effect of the EDLs presence has definitely been the emboldening of other, long thought defunct, groupings such as the NF to hold street protests. Last weekend in Dover an anti-immigrant rally by the South East Alliance (an EDL offshoot/splinter group) was attended by Kent National Front and Nick Griffin representing the BNP. They scuffled briefly with police over the main roundabout to the ferry terminal having marched unopposed through town.

What the EDL achieved is the consolidation of racist beliefs among a hard-core of followers. I don't think that there was any single 'true aim' from the start. One clever comparison with the EDL,made in the blog While Rome Burns, was with Reclaim the Streets. You didn't need to join a political belief system or sign up to a party for RTS, it was announced - you turned up and left (after the obligatory push and shove with the cops) feeling all tribal.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 30, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> The leadership is a vexed question. Certainly Tinpot Tommy didn't assert himself as the leader until around the beginning of 2011. It was his seizure of the mantle that led to the first splinterings. The EDL do not have an internal structure as most leftists understand it and thus leadership went to whoever asserted it most loudly in the press. Tommy's depature for the Quillam foundation was probably a move to get a smaller sentence in the mortgage fraud trial that he knew was on the horizon at the time.



I think the 2011 claim is out by two years. He was identified as and accepted as leader and public face end of 2009 by my reckoning.


----------



## krink (Sep 30, 2014)

NF having a demo in Newcastle on Saturday. Supported by EDL and the other splitters. Last time they had over 100 and no opposition. I've stopped going, can't do anything on my own apart from maybe get nicked.


----------



## Thunderfist (Oct 1, 2014)

butchersapron.  The EDL had a variety of spokesmen between 2009-2010. Only from 2011 onwards did the Lennon/Carroll partnership predominate. I suppose my point is that they are capable of existing without Robinson, that his depature doesn't necessarily spell the end for ultra-nationalist street mobilisation.


----------



## krink (Oct 4, 2014)

well that was a pleasant surprise and perhaps a starting point of maybe turning things around. NF and wannabes had a bout 50 or so in Newcastle today. Labour and that lot had a stop the war demo right before the nf one but then fucked off leaving a handful of young anarchists...who later teamed up with a handful of rcg and had a go at the nf! NF were joined by north east and north west infidels and some edl and were in old-school mode - white this, white that, send them back etc etc but the people in the crowd where i was were either disgusted or were laughing at them.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 5, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> butchersapron.  The EDL had a variety of spokesmen between 2009-2010. Only from 2011 onwards did the Lennon/Carroll partnership predominate. I suppose my point is that they are capable of existing without Robinson, that his depature doesn't necessarily spell the end for ultra-nationalist street mobilisation.


I don't remember 2009 but Lennon was definitely the dominant leader externally by 2010


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 7, 2014)

hi all, yes, I am Arthur, EDL supporter that you banned around page 80.

Every so often you talk about EDL is finished, well no we are not, despite Tommy being brought to his knees by the state using dirty tactics to decapitate us, which by the way you should have been angry about because they will use those tactics against you.

But EDL continues because we are united, we told you that there were muslim rape gangs in every city and town across the UK and that it was being covered up, sadly, it has proved to be spot on but to try and expose these dreadful crimes meant we were some how fascist, racist etc etc.

Now the same applies to FGM, it is being covered up by the authorities because PC demands that they don't rock the multi-culti boat, so tens of thousands of little girls are being abused by Islam.
Why are you not demanding that action is taken?

There are hundreds of Shari'ah courts across the UK that treat women as less than a man, 2nd class, why are you not protesting this?

Many of you judge EDL on how we look that's pretty shameful in my view.

Yes you will of course ban me because I disagree with you.
Peace,

Arthur.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 7, 2014)

ok then Arthur
if there are gangs in every city (and town!) where is your evidence and why are you not camping in any of them?


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 7, 2014)

We can't be every where at once, we often get emails from people who beg us to demonstrate in their town or city, because the authorities will not listen.

My family come from Rotherham, a once proud mining town destroyed by Thatcher and Wilson and then to add injury to insult, Blair allowed  a third world ideology to rape and abuse our, working class kids.

In the next few months you will see more of these horror stories coming from our towns and cities, proof, I can only say what people tell us and I would rather believe them than a biased press or politicians.

Arthur.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 7, 2014)

Arthur, why aren't you protesting against South Yorkshire Police?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 7, 2014)

Nobody on this forum judges EDl on the way they look. Try reading the thread and you'll see how they criticize anyone who does that.

The aim of the EDL, as far as Im concerned, was to demonize and intimidate the entire muslim population on the pretext of opposing extremism. The EDl has possibly contributed to creating more extremism by snarling at normal people and making them feel abused.


----------



## belboid (Oct 7, 2014)

arthur6 said:


> tens of thousands of little girls are being abused by Islam.


you must be furious. Abusing young girls is what you live for!


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 7, 2014)

Blagsta said:


> Arthur, why aren't you protesting against South Yorkshire Police?



But we did, we camped outside the police station until Mr Wright resigned.

Arthur.


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 7, 2014)

Anudder Oik said:


> Nobody on this forum judges EDl on the way they look. Try reading the thread and you'll see how they criticize anyone who does that.
> 
> The aim of the EDL, as far as Im concerned, was to demonize and intimidate the entire muslim population on the pretext of opposing extremism. The EDl has possibly contributed to creating more extremism by snarling at normal people and making them feel abused.



No no no, that is not our aim at all, quote from our mission statement,

Whilst we must always protect against the unjust assumption that all Muslims are complicit in or somehow responsible for these crimes, we must not be afraid to speak freely about these issues. This is why the EDL will continue to work to protect the inalienable rights of all people to protest against radical Islam’s encroachment into the lives of non-Muslims.

We also recognise that Muslims themselves are frequently the main victims of some Islamic traditions and practices. The Government should protect the individual human rights of members of British Muslims. It should ensure that they can openly criticise Islamic orthodoxy, challenge Islamic leaders without fear of retribution, receive full equality before the law (including equal rights for Muslim women), and leave Islam if they see fit, without fear of censure.

British Muslims should be able to safely demand reform of their religion, in order to make it more relevant to the needs of the modern world and more respectful of other groups in society. It is important that they completely reject the views of those who believe that Islam should be taken in its ‘original’, 7th century form, because these interpretations are the antithesis of Western democracy. The onus should be on British Muslims to overcome the problems that blight their religion and achieve nothing short of an Islamic reformation. In line with this, we should do all that we can to empower those who are willing to take this path. We must also ensure that they do not fear reprisals from those who, in line with these 7th century interpretations, would force sharia law upon them.

Arthur.


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 7, 2014)

belboid said:


> you must be furious. Abusing young girls is what you live for!



Oh do come on, that's a bit too nasty, I live to stop this abuse and have done so at the start of EDL in 2009. Have you shed any tears for the 1400 kids, it breaks my heart that these kids have had their lives ruined and that those who were meant to protect them, totally failed, lets face it, having petrol thrown over them, guns pointed at them, gang raped, their families threatened and the state betrayed them, what more do you need to fight back.

Arthur.


----------



## belboid (Oct 7, 2014)

Richard Price, Michael Coates, Brett Moses, Matthew Woodward...I could go on.  For such a tiny organisation, there are an awful lot of child abusers amongst you.  Way more than amongst british muslims, proportionally.  You should go on a war against yourself.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 7, 2014)

Where is the next worst place for what you claim Arthur?
Who is the next top cop that should go?


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 8, 2014)

belboid said:


> Richard Price, Michael Coates, Brett Moses, Matthew Woodward...I could go on.  For such a tiny organisation, there are an awful lot of child abusers amongst you.  Way more than amongst british muslims, proportionally.  You should go on a war against yourself.



If you look at what goes on in the tories, labour etc you will find some nasty people, some EDL supporters are the same nasty people, look at the recent SWP, whereby rather than report rape and sexual harassment they tried to hide it all. How an earth can you sus these people , you can't, because some labour, tories, libdems, swp etc etc  don't exactly come out and say, I'm a rapist or a child abuser, when these monsters are discovered then labour,tories etc etc expel them, as does the EDL.

Do I label all labour, swp, tory activists as  pedos, no of course not, i do not base my politics on that.

You say tiny org, but there are millions of people that agree with us, many are poor and cannot afford to join every demo.

Arthur.


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 8, 2014)

If it was left to me the whole police service and all of those complicit in hiding these horrible crimes should be in jail, alongside the bankers and all of the people who have abused our country, zero hours contracts, slave wages, the list is endless.

Arthur.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 8, 2014)

arthur6 said:


> If it was left to me the whole police service and all of those complicit in hiding these horrible crimes should be in jail, alongside the bankers and all of the people who have abused our country, zero hours contracts, slave wages, the list is endless.
> 
> Arthur.



So why is the EDL pro austerity?


----------



## Serotonin (Oct 8, 2014)

> No no no, that is not our aim at all, quote from our mission statement,



You need to let your rank and file know that then.


----------



## krink (Oct 8, 2014)

we're not really entertaining this cunt again are we?

*edit; that's assuming this is arthur again and not some banned prick being a prick


----------



## ddraig (Oct 8, 2014)

arthur6 said:


> Oh do come on, that's a bit too nasty, I live to stop this abuse and have done so at the start of EDL in 2009. Have you shed any tears for the 1400 kids, it breaks my heart that these kids have had their lives ruined and that those who were meant to protect them, totally failed, lets face it, having petrol thrown over them, guns pointed at them, gang raped, their families threatened and the state betrayed them, what more do you need to fight back.
> 
> Arthur.


if you live to stop this abuse, what is the next phase of the campaign? which city/town is next?
who can show me the evidence in south Wales please? i'd like to know so plans can be made


----------



## ddraig (Oct 8, 2014)

is this the answer arthur6 ?


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 8, 2014)

I've read this forum for many years and I think that most on here are decent people, I disagree with your politics but that doesn't mean that you are bad folk.

I'm making a final post because I don't want to appear to be some sort of troll, I just want to make a couple of points.
Point one is that EDL are not going away and opposing us,tbh, is a waste of your time.

Instead oppose the rape of thousands of working class boys and girls, by whoever. Also fight the cover up of thousands of young girls who are being subjected to FGM, despite it being against our law since 85, not a single person has been brought to book.
Like the wholesale rape of our kids being covered up by the police, social services and councils across the country, so is FGM and it's time that all of us as decent people put a stop to these horrible crimes.

I've said my bit, so I won't trouble you further, peace and good night.

Cheers, Arthur.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 8, 2014)

so you can't or won't answer my reasonable questions?
i want to know how i can stop this in South Wales

are you a liar or a coward?


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 8, 2014)

arthur6 said:


> I've read this forum for many years and I think that most on here are decent people, I disagree with your politics but that doesn't mean that you are bad folk.
> 
> I'm making a final post because I don't want to appear to be some sort of troll, I just want to make a couple of points.
> Point one is that EDL are not going away and opposing us,tbh, is a waste of your time.
> ...




I take it you've read the Jay Report in its entirety?


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 9, 2014)

ddraig said:


> so you can't or won't answer my reasonable questions?
> i want to know how i can stop this in South Wales
> 
> are you a liar or a coward?



I've not heard anything coming out of Wales, so perhaps Wales is safe, as far as I know, we have not had a single invitation to come to Wales.

Arthur.


----------



## arthur6 (Oct 9, 2014)

I've read most of the Jay report.

Arthur.


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## Serotonin (Oct 9, 2014)

Strange that eh?


----------



## ddraig (Oct 9, 2014)

arthur6 said:


> I've not heard anything coming out of Wales, so perhaps Wales is safe, as far as I know, we have not had a single invitation to come to Wales.
> 
> Arthur.


you said in every town and city so was that an exaggeration? or is it just a few towns and cities you suspect? how can you expect people to get involved and oppose this horror if you don't share proof and information on your battle plan for justice?

you are too scared to come to Wales after what happened last time


----------



## krink (Oct 9, 2014)

arthur please fuck off with your shite patronising guff and put your head in the microwave on full power for minimum of an hour, you racist piece of shit.


----------



## juice_terry (Oct 11, 2014)

Any news from Brum today ?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 11, 2014)

Going off twitter, a damp squib. Respect to the folks of Brum that took to the mic, & told them to fuck off 

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...irmingham-edl-demonstration-centenary-7919033


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Oct 12, 2014)

Same old, same old, bag full of Stella:






EDL supporters asked to move to Bar Risa area by police on Broad Street


----------



## J Ed (Oct 12, 2014)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Same old, same old, bag full of Stella:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank goodness they aren't drinking a cheaper alcoholic lager beer otherwise they would be even more racist


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 12, 2014)

Loads of  mingers there.


----------



## Nigel (Oct 13, 2014)

Interesting turn up for the books.
Tommy Robinson is a guest speaker at Oxford Union discussing 'counter terrorism' on behalf of Quilliam Foundation !

https://www.google.com/calendar/ren...poOTlnazQ4dDFvaWlhdjRAZw&sf=true&output=xml#f

http://www.oxford-union.org/termcard

http://www.quilliamfoundation.org/about/


----------



## Thunderfist (Oct 13, 2014)

The annual Oxford Union nontroversy - some toffling gets the chair for a year and tries to think of the most outrageous speakers he (or she, but most probably he) can come up with. Tommy's a pretty uninspired choice tbh. Didn't Fred West do it one year?


----------



## seventh bullet (Oct 13, 2014)

Miss Duffy's politics seems to consist of pointing out how ugly and lower class people are.  

That's it.  Nothing else.


----------



## treelover (Oct 19, 2014)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Same old, same old, bag full of Stella:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FFS, did you ever go on a Reclaim the Streets event?


----------



## Thunderfist (Oct 19, 2014)

That aimed at me Treelover? If so the answer's yes.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 19, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> The annual Oxford Union nontroversy - some toffling gets the chair for a year and tries to think of the most outrageous speakers he (or she, but most probably he) can come up with. Tommy's a pretty uninspired choice tbh. Didn't Fred West do it one year?


tommy boy is back in jail. re: bags of beer. the point is that they treat political protest like a piss up or football away game. and they wonder why people call em pissheads and don't take em seriously. even on the far right the general opinion is similar. its not great PR is it? anyway, off back to hibernation.


----------



## Thunderfist (Oct 19, 2014)

Back in jail? When did that happen?


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 20, 2014)

treelover said:


> FFS, did you ever go on a Reclaim the Streets event?


The point of Reclaim the Streets was to take over a public space and have a party. Have you been to many parties where there was no beer?

The edl are supposed to be protesting against the 'islamification' of the uk. Freely supping on Stella rather proves Islam has a rather long way to go. It also makes them look lacking in discipline.


----------



## Nigel (Oct 21, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> Back in jail? When did that happen?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29690823


----------



## Nigel (Oct 21, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> tommy boy is back in jail. re: bags of beer. the point is that they treat political protest like a piss up or football away game. and they wonder why people call em pissheads and don't take em seriously. even on the far right the general opinion is similar. its not great PR is it? anyway, off back to hibernation.


When you said," .....the point is that they treat political protest like a piss up or football away game." for a moment had the impression you  were commenting Oxbridge/Oxford Students clanging for a decent Resumé for whichever career path/group they are heading, whether its Fabian Society OUSU/Ruskin Student Union, UAF etc or Institute Of Ideas, Right Wing Libertarians/Caesars, Bullingdon Club, Assassins, OUCA etc. It all seem sabit orchaestrated; more like an opportunistic strategy to impress those necessary for aspiring to the future vocation


----------



## treelover (Oct 26, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/26/football-fans-neo-nazis-riot-cologne

Seems like the German Far Right have been following the EDL's progress, etc.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 26, 2014)

treelover said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/26/football-fans-neo-nazis-riot-cologne
> 
> Seems like the German Far Right have been following the EDL's progress, etc.


how does it seem like that??


----------



## Anudder Oik (Oct 27, 2014)

ddraig said:


> how does it seem like that??


----------



## framed (Nov 7, 2014)

Eddie Stampton's facebook page...

Anyone on the NF Remembrance day parade this year, make sure you assemble at Bressendon Place, Victoria at 2pm. march heading off at 2.30pm. If you intend meeting me earlier, then call me on 07763343336 or pm on here for the pub we will be meeting in. Don't be fooled by the earlier march, by the NF hijacker faction. That one leaves at 1.45pm.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 7, 2014)

Do they still get allowed to do their own macabre laying of a wreath ceremony after the official one is over and everyone has fucked off?

Nazis laying a wreath on the graves of those who fought Nazis. Why is that not seen as a greater insult than some pissed student urinating on the cenotaph?


----------



## andrewc (Nov 8, 2014)

More arrests after an ongoing harassment campaign against Liverpool Wavertree MP Luciana Berger.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...ide-neo-nazis-arrested-after-planning-8072355

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...merseysider-jailed-anti-semitic-tweet-7966903


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 8, 2014)

there are 2 factions of the NF, one 'official' version led by kevin bryant, a rather uninspired balloonhead, and the other faction that is also supposed to the 'official' one as well. big fallouts over a thoroughly toxic brand.  the BNP is also splitting into pro- and anti- Griffinites after naziclops resigned but then refused to let go of the reigns. NF and BNP are all threatening one another over who is going to run their party into the sewer along with all the other rats and shite.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 8, 2014)

to further clarify the NF demise from the Electoral Commission:

The Commission’s press officer now says that [NF] gave us “incorrect information” earlier this week: the NF has been deregistered, but not for the reasons he previously gave. According to the latest Commission statement: “The National Front did not respond to our request to renew their registration details with us and when we asked if they wanted to be de-registered, they confirmed that they did.”

The statement continues: “From January, individuals from the two ‘groups’ would be able to make an application to register the party name or variations on the party name. Section 28 of the Political Parties Elections Referendums Act (PPERA) says that when two applications to register the same party name are pending at the same time, it’s the responsibility of the Electoral Commission to determine by reference to the history of each of the applicant parties which of them has the greatest claim to register the name.

oh dear.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2014)

can't believe i havent seen it already but forward to 55 secs in and then see robinson doing what he always does, grasses to the police. that is if anyone remembers him.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 12, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Do they still get allowed to do their own macabre laying of a wreath ceremony after the official one is over and everyone has fucked off?
> 
> Nazis laying a wreath on the graves of those who fought Nazis. Why is that not seen as a greater insult than some pissed student urinating on the cenotaph?


as there are now 2 factions they got to march a bit earlier when there were more people about
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/national-fronts-march-on-remembrance-sunday-481


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2014)

Why does vice report on this stuff? I thought it was a wanky lad lifestyle mag?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2014)

yes there are 2 factions of the NF, the kevin bryant one and the ian edwards one. whilst being pre-occupied with internal division, they have been deregistered by the electoral commission so neither faction have any claim on the name. good job really cos it's a toxic one electorally. both factions were at remembrance sunday but were kept apart on separate micro-marches.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 12, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> good job really cos it's a toxic one electorally.



In 2014? Really?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 12, 2014)

yes it is a toxic brand even amongst the fash. There are those who think it wards off voters and still has that '70s feeling.'


----------



## cantsin (Nov 12, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Why does vice report on this stuff? I thought it was a wanky lad lifestyle mag?



'has never been anything even remotely 'lad' about Vice -no consistency or depth to their 'politics', but their gonzo/on the spot/fringe politico stuff isnt really matched anywhere else.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2014)

cantsin said:


> 'has never been anything even remotely 'lad' about Vice -no consistency or depth to their 'politics', but their gonzo/on the spot/fringe politico stuff isnt really matched anywhere else.



Fair enough. Showing my ignorance there regarding their editorial. I just lumped them in with Nuts etc for some reason.


----------



## belboid (Nov 12, 2014)

so did I, I guess because of their name


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 12, 2014)

For what it's worth, murdock has a stake in it!


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 12, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> yes it is a toxic brand even amongst the fash. There are those who think it wards off voters and still has that '70s feeling.'



If it is toxic amongst the fash, that is a good thing, surely?


----------



## Sweet FA (Nov 12, 2014)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> For what it's worth, murdock has a stake in it!


----------



## framed (Nov 12, 2014)

*Rupert Murdoch firm dips into hipsters' bible with $70m stake in Vice*
5% stake sold to Rupert Murdoch's 21st Century Fox, allowing it to expand into Europe and India


----------



## cantsin (Nov 12, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Fair enough. Showing my ignorance there regarding their editorial. I just lumped them in with Nuts etc for some reason.



its been pretty mad how they've developed, from ultra hipsters to 'global media platform' with James Murdoch on the board ( NI : 5 % stake , valauation $2.5 bn ) within 10 years ( they were only a niche magazine before that) .

Always thought they had some sound people working there, but boss Shane Smith slagging of Occupy , Martin Sorrel / Murdoch etc involved, its was only going to go one way.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 12, 2014)

At least they actually bother to cover this sort of stuff. And from an 'aren't the far right a bit shit?' position rather than gawping in awe or fear mongering. Ive since been reliably informed as to _why_ these stories are appearing in Vice, but in PM so that's all I can say about that.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 12, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> At least they actually bother to cover this sort of stuff. And from an 'aren't the far right a bit shit?' position rather than gawping in awe or fear mongering. Ive since been reliably informed as to _why_ these stories are appearing in Vice, but in PM so that's all I can say about that.



True, but it's a bit like the Simpsons being Fox produced - just slurp up enough of our shit (even the good stuff) then when we tell you to jump, you will. I just resent the corps needing to stick their or in just to make some money


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 12, 2014)

Where's Mal or is he working on another book?


----------



## thriller (Nov 13, 2014)

Came across this today (a few days late ) 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ce-day-minute-silence-a-day-late-9856423.html


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 13, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Where's Mal or is he working on another book?


just gravitating back to anti-fascist duties after a short hiatus!


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 13, 2014)

You doing another book in the future?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 13, 2014)

PM'd you. i am hoping to do volume 2: post 1945 - present in Europe and to get militants in serbia, germany, poland etc to write sections on their areas as a collaborative venture. big project though.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 13, 2014)

Biggest anti fascist struggle at the mo is Kurds versus ISIS


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

maidan fashcists plan to march on the cenotaph tommorow in london to celebrate the waffen ss


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

anti nazi action as been planned apparently


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Nov 15, 2014)

weseethroughyou said:


> anti nazi action as been planned apparently


Be nice if you could have given some detail mate!

http://ukraineantifascistsolidarity...to-march-to-the-cenotaph-in-london-on-sunday/


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2014)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Be nice if you could have given some detail mate!
> 
> http://ukraineantifascistsolidarity...to-march-to-the-cenotaph-in-london-on-sunday/


He's no 'mate' - he's trying to drum up interest for the other side.


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

morning star reported today and its on the london maidan page


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> He's no 'mate' - he's trying to drum up interest for the other side.



Fash?


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> He's no 'mate' - he's trying to drum up interest for the other side.


which other side butch


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

bristol solidarty aganst fashcism in ukraine is a good website for news


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Fash?


This is the rat.


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

first time nazis plan to march on cenotaph in london surely


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 15, 2014)

Oh dear.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2014)

weseethroughyou said:


> bristol solidarty aganst fashcism in ukraine is a good website for news


And here we go - isn't it fun! Brilliant mistakes in the spelling too. Wonderful stuff.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2014)

weseethroughyou said:


> which other side butch


Why do you bother? Why?


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

surely they dont realise the fury this will create and will surely backfire on them in the mainstream press


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 15, 2014)

weseethroughyou said:


> surely they dont realise the fury this will create and will surely backfire on them in the mainstream press



What?


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> And here we go - isn't it fun! Brilliant mistakes in the spelling too. Wonderful stuff.


concert to follow at the economic school of london afterwards


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

RT will be there i expect will they be able to keep it out of the mainstream i wonder


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 15, 2014)

weseethroughyou said:


> RT will be there i expect will they be able to keep it out of the mainstream i wonder



What the fuck are you on about? Are you copy & pasting from twitter?


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

Many groups going apparently looks like a huge mistake for the nazis they will lose support for the maidan mob in london thats for sure hahah


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> What the fuck are you on about? Are you copy & pasting from twitter?


maidan ukraine right wing groups are planning a march to the cenotaph to commerate ALL ukrainian dead in war there is a big emphasis on the word ALL implying that they also intend to commenerate the ukrainians who fought alongside the waffen SS in the second world war and who carried out the some of the worst crimes in the whole war including to torture rape and murder of women and children who were jewish, polish, rusyn, russian,boyk ,roma and ukrainians who refused to bow down to there fashcist ideals even the waffen ss were schocked about there fighting methods against unarmed civilians and refused to fight with them


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## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY TAKING PLACE IN THE UKRAINE AND SCUM INTEND TO CELEBRATE AT CENOTAPH TOMMOROW AND INSULT THE DEAD OF THE BRITISH EMPIRE WHO FOUGHT AGAINST HITLER IN WW2


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## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2014)

WHY DON'T PEOPLE IN THEIR THIRTIES JOIN MAIDAN UKRAINE RIGHT WING GROUPS PLANNING A MARCH TO THE CENOTAPH?


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

what?


----------



## weseethroughyou (Nov 15, 2014)

some sort of code butch?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 15, 2014)

weseethroughyou said:


> what?


I SAID WHY DON'T PEOPLE IN THEIR THIRTIES JOIN MAIDAN UKRAINE RIGHT WING GROUPS PLANNING A MARCH TO THE CENOTAPH?


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## malatesta32 (Nov 17, 2014)

crivvens, he wasnt very good was he?


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 18, 2014)

interesting devlepoment and not a great precedent: 
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/council-bans-scottish-defence-league-4644436


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 20, 2014)

today is the anniversary of the March For England 2013 failure to turn up in Brighton on their 'revenge march.' Yet another embarrassment for MFE and their bullshit rhetoric.


----------



## gamerunknown (Nov 24, 2014)

EDL rally was about a mile away from static counter-demo. One antifa group broke off from the static demo and were kettled, another got a few metres off and were corralled out of the area by police. Jubilant group of EDL go on to chant "Muslim paedos off our streets" on a train to King's Cross before attacking an elderly fellow.

I'm hoping EDL aren't bolstered by the relative lack of opposition. Would be good to see more out next demo.


----------



## Thunderfist (Nov 26, 2014)

Don't really understand why so few were out in Bury Park. I've been there a few time to counter the EDL and last time (2012?) the whole of Dunstable RD was rammed with the locals. Really piss-poor UAF turn out with Weyman floundering around trying to look important.


----------



## Limerick Red (Nov 26, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> Don't really understand why so few were out in Bury Park. I've been there a few time to counter the EDL and last time (2012?) the whole of Dunstable RD was rammed with the locals. Really piss-poor UAF turn out with Weyman floundering around trying to look important.


UAF have not being able to mobilize to any great extent for over a year, they have transferred alot of resouces into "Stand up to racism /UKIP", they are definitaly suffering from the SWP fallout. On top of this people do not view the EDL as the treat they once were, once Tommy left, their numbers have been consistently at around 3-400 for their national demos, alot of people think "so what". Mobilising 400 people to random places in the country is still quite an achievement, and their are still by far the biggest and most active group on the far right. 
They dont have any direction politically, they couldn't maintain the capital they made from Rigby, were unable to capitalise on Rotherham, their right flank has being pretty exposed and numerous splits have taken away alot of "members", what they do have is a very dedicate cadre, and I reckon they could limp on like this for years.


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## Fingers (Dec 2, 2014)

Lordy their prison Division is set to go up in some serious numbers over the next month or so

http://edlnews.co.uk/latestnews/1391-edl-xmas-legal-woes


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## butchersapron (Dec 2, 2014)

Fingers said:


> Lordy their prison Division is set to go up in some serious numbers over the next month or so
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/latestnews/1391-edl-xmas-legal-woes


Any news on this yet fings. It was quite a bold claim. Again.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 2, 2014)

Phil Collins lol


----------



## malatesta32 (Dec 2, 2014)

in rotherham, supposedly in support of the hundreds of victims, the EDL ended up brawling with the NF and other assorted fuckbuckles. factionalism is rife amongst their ranks.


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## Thunderfist (Dec 3, 2014)

Casuals now claiming that not all those up for the MFE punch up are theirs (i.e nationalists). It could be because having the addresses out there has put the wind up 'em or it could be that some of those charged are anti fascists so maybe less of the gloating for a while.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 3, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> in rotherham, supposedly in support of the hundreds of victims, the EDL ended up brawling with the NF and other assorted fuckbuckles. factionalism is rife amongst their ranks.



baggy crotch to accommodate all the piss and shit he accumalates on marches


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## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> baggy crotch to accommodate all the piss and shit he accumalates on marches


----------



## Limerick Red (Dec 3, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> Casuals now claiming that not all those up for the MFE punch up are theirs (i.e nationalists). It could be because having the addresses out there has put the wind up 'em or it could be that some of those charged are anti fascists so maybe less of the gloating for a while.


The "casuals" (super dry jackets and Nike tracksuit bottoms don't look too casual to me) consist of 6 to 8 people, some overlap with other groups, they are more a Facebook page than a group


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## Thunderfist (Dec 4, 2014)

Agreed - but they knew about the charges almost straight away, meaning they know at least some of the fash who've been charged.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2014)

I always thought the attire of 'casuals' was a mixture of Stone Island and sports wear.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 4, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> baggy crotch to accommodate all the piss and shit he accumalates on marches



indeed, check these incontinent eejits:

http://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/taking-the-piss/


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## malatesta32 (Dec 4, 2014)

as Red says, the casuals are nothing but a facebook group.they were started by jeffrey 'chubs' marsh, an ageing sad hooligan who was jailed for stabbing someone, then went  on to produce a couple of very shit books on hooliganism. he was followed by 2 girls and a couple of gluesniffing losers. he turned up in brighton to 'have it' with antifa and ended cowering in a toilet to prevent getting battered. he had links with EDL but fell out with them and linked up with MfE. an absolute nobody.


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## Thunderfist (Dec 4, 2014)

They are a little bit more than a Facebook group. Not much more, but they're a loose network of some of the EDL splinter group hardcore. They're a flag of convenience as much as anything.


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## Ranbay (Dec 4, 2014)

Jeff died then moved to Spain and is sometime to be seen hanging about Cardiff Central station.


----------



## laptop (Dec 4, 2014)

B0B2oo9 said:


> died then moved to Spain





A euphemism that has passed me by? Why didn't he go to a farm in Wales?


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 4, 2014)

He was reported to be dead, then living in Spain, really he was in Cardiff or Barry or who the fuck cares where.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 4, 2014)

Yeah the sad twat tried to fake his own death on social media and was roundly laughed at, then he moved to spain. The rest just gob off on the internet and have been largely quiet since their chief Facebook gobshite got outed recently.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 4, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Any news on this yet fings. It was quite a bold claim. Again.


Fingers ?


----------



## Fingers (Dec 4, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Fingers ?



http://edlnews.co.uk/featured-stori...1349-casuals-united-zoe-smith-samantha-turner


----------



## Limerick Red (Dec 4, 2014)

Fingers said:


> http://edlnews.co.uk/featured-stori...1349-casuals-united-zoe-smith-samantha-turner


EDL News and OTAN , where to fuckin start.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 4, 2014)

Limerick Red said:


> EDL News and OTAN , where to fuckin start.



Well yeah, there is quite an significant difference between the two so I am not sure where to start on that.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 11, 2014)

more heavy manners jail time for EDL. most looking at 18months-2yrs. 
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/live-birmingham-edl-disorder---8269824


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## laptop (Dec 13, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> more heavy manners jail time for EDL. most looking at 18months-2yrs.
> http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/live-birmingham-edl-disorder---8269824



Link broken. You mean the four who got 13-24 months?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/edl-demo-birmingham-four-men-8274460

Or these four with 20-31 months?

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/edl-thug-who-hurled-fire-8281380


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## malatesta32 (Dec 13, 2014)

been away so not caught up on this yet but a bunch more are getting sentenced monday. the judge apparently fucked it up or something yesterday and they all chose to be remanded till sentencing. why, i do not know unless they are particularly fond of those weird microwaved breakfasts they give you in the cells. as for the last link the guy who has 89 convictions and 8 sentences is seriously institutionalised.


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## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2014)

The EDL Member Who Turned His Back On Far-Right Politics



> It was fear that drove people there. Many family men, they want to know what the future holds for their families. Then you’ve got other lads who are simply crying for help. … A lot of them can’t articulate how they feel, so they let someone else speak for them. These lads have never had a job. Never visited a dentist in the last 20 years. Around 30% of the EDL was made up of unemployed lads. I could see them going out looking for hope. And what is presented to them is just like that video “This Is My England” on the EDL website: It’s a mirage. The beautiful landscape and the pretty things they see of rural England on that video, about their country, their nation, are not within their reach. … It’s not theirs. But they followed it. They acted out their feelings. They follow their instinct looking for some meaning. But they’d been defeated years ago. Just defeated.





> Drugs have become a huge problem. Opposite the Parrot pub (on the Farley Hill estate), you have some lovely little council flats. The council just put crackies in there. It was never like that. Heroin was creeping in. If you’re not working, you’re gonna be taking or selling drugs. The local government stopped investing in the estates. There’s no more affordable social housing. The estates were turned into slums. The government doesn’t care about young people. Gordon Brown talked about apprenticeship; my son is 24 and is one of the few lucky ones who got apprenticeships. There’s none for his generation. All my son’s mates are out of work, desperate to get an apprenticeship. They want progression. They want to do something. They want to be called something.





> I’ve come full circle. I see it as going back to my working-class roots. I think I’ve always been a socialist deep down, without knowing. I look back at the 1980s as if it were a black-and-white era, without any colour. The struggle remained fresh in my memory – it was a real hardcore decade for the working class, following on from the winter of discontent. … In the past, individual working-class people were never afraid to stand up and have a say. We’d had that since the 1970s and all the way to the 1980s. … There was very much a community spirit back then. We had the Toxteth riot of 1981. … We had the miners having a say. … But it’s been different since. The community spirit was all smashed during the Thatcher years. … I regretted having joined the EDL. It ain’t nowhere to go. I want to be part of making a difference. For me, putting the EDL street movement behind and joining the union and labour movement was one of the most important decisions in my life.



Vs



> some egs on way off life
> 
> - do rubish job you hate or no job and no money
> 
> ...





> all in all way off life can be depresing a bit so balance it with the other things
> 
> use all above in clever ways as what you are realysaying is NO MORE MUSLIMS (AND PROBERLY BLACKS REALY) BETER BE RID OF THE ONES HERE THEN THINGS WILL BE OK AGANE WHEN EVERONE IS LIKE US (apart from left for who theres other ways of shuting up and geting rid off)


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## Citizen66 (Dec 17, 2014)

Who are the real Nazis? (seriously this time though).


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## treelover (Dec 18, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> The EDL Member Who Turned His Back On Far-Right Politics
> 
> 
> 
> ...




hope this gets circulated, some of the people I am aware who protested against the EDL had very mixed motives, especially some of the posher ones.


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## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2014)

treelover said:


> hope this gets circulated, some of the people I am aware who protested against the EDL had very mixed motives, especially some of the posher ones.


I've not seen a single one of the dedicated anti-edl 'groups' circulate it - despite appearing to send 10 tweets or write a blog piece every time some edl supporters farts.


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## Coolfonz (Dec 18, 2014)

Good piece. Speaking broadly: these guys, they are mainly men, have been and are generally ignored. Since they were kids even. They might not have always behaved well, football, fighting, drugs, partying. And some are bone fide racists, no hope for them. But personally I feel with these people and Ukip voters groups/people/political parties simply need to talk to these guys. Approach them, treat them with basic manners and respect, have a sense of humour and treat them as equals. Not keen on anecdotes or personal stuff on the internet but I'm 99pc sure it would work. Of course it should have been done a long time ago. Of course what structures do you use to do it? But it's not impossible. The way the caste have withdrawn like the tide from difficult men, often but not always working class men, the contempt they are held in gives us this. Feeds it. The left too I'm afraid in my experience.


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## Thunderfist (Dec 18, 2014)

A lot of the anti-EDL stuff online was snobbery - on the streets not so much.


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## Coolfonz (Dec 19, 2014)

Again very broadly: it's like the saying `bored alienated kids cause trouble`. These are bored alienated men. It is pretty obvious. Some big chunks of British society have been left to rot in the last 35 years. Also the problems with men, gender issues. Who cares for troublesome young men? They are almost universally hated, especially by other men. Men in between the ages of 15 and 40, older even *coughs*, need a lot of handling. Not when they commit awful crimes, it's not an excuse for them. It's easy to see, not just in UK society but in every nation state, through history.  But when the EDL are on the streets. Well, fuck them and their minders in blue.


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## malatesta32 (Dec 19, 2014)

it seems many people who oppose them think that the EDL is over, as do many EDL, especially after robinson left and who is currently sniffing round UKIP - altho being exBNP he may not be accepted. it will be no surprise that EDL will vote Ukip. also, there are perhaps 'fariweather anti-fascists' as there are 'fairweather fascists.'


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## Citizen66 (Dec 19, 2014)

Is a 'fair-weather anti-fascist' someone who refuses to get out of bed to oppose an almost-defunct group on a drizzly Saturday morning?


----------



## Thunderfist (Dec 19, 2014)

No - they're somebody who never got out of bed at all.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 20, 2014)

malatesta32 said:


> it seems many people who oppose them think that the EDL is over, as do many EDL, especially after robinson left and who is currently sniffing round UKIP - altho being exBNP he may not be accepted. it will be no surprise that EDL will vote Ukip. also, there are perhaps 'fariweather anti-fascists' as there are 'fairweather fascists.'





Thunderfist said:


> No - they're somebody who never got out of bed at all.



Name names.


----------



## Thunderfist (Dec 27, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Name names.



Wot name everyone who hasn't opposed the EDL on the streets? Could take a while.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 27, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> No - they're somebody who never got out of bed at all.



So what does the 'fair weather' bit pertain to? It normally implies sporadic participation.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 27, 2014)

I know a bloke in the EDL , half Brazilian full Manc , who aside from ' we want our country back ' hates the far right , hates UKIP , the coalition sees Labour as no solution and pretty much agrees with my pro working class  views. 
Quick to make a dig at Muslims though. 

Get the feeling that if there were more us he'd be one if us .


----------



## Thunderfist (Dec 28, 2014)

Aside from "we want our country back" hates the far-right. Who does he want it back from then?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> Aside from "we want our country back" hates the far-right. Who does he want it back from then?


State, politicians, bosses i expect.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 28, 2014)

All property is theft (apart from your own country!)


----------



## Thunderfist (Dec 28, 2014)

The EDL's a funny forum for his views then. 'Cos they want the country back from militant Islam.  Bit like me going on a Countryside Alliance demo because I'm anti-police.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2014)

That whole thing i posted above - wasted on you wasn't it?


----------



## Thunderfist (Dec 28, 2014)

What was your point? That some people have been snobbish about the EDL online and therefore that makes them paragons of gritty authentic working class resistance?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2014)

Thunderfist said:


> What was your point? That some people have been snobbish about the EDL online and therefore that makes them paragons of gritty authentic working class resistance?


Yes, that was my point. Nothing else. Well done. _Victory to the full-time anti-fascists._


----------



## Thunderfist (Dec 28, 2014)

Eh?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 6, 2015)

Top class _full time_ anti-fascist sexism here:



> On the eve of the trial Jayda Fransen, Golding's sort of deputy cum Eva Braun, donned her black mascara to address the troops via the interweb.





> Steve Lewis took forty winks, Jayda did her lippy





> Jayda apparently held up a sandwich board thinking that there was some sort of half time break.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 6, 2015)

From the case Butcher's links to above - What kind of nonsense is this charge? Presumably something aimed at the blackshirts given the date of the act, but still. Maybe they can use it against the dicks wearing V for Vendetta masks too.



> On that day, Golding also wore a political uniform in the form of a Britain First members only jacket, which is an offence under the Public Order Act 1936.



(From http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Bri...tory-25808029-detail/story.html#ixzz3O41rxNNO )


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> From the case Butcher's links to above - What kind of nonsense is this charge? Presumably something aimed at the blackshirts given the date of the act, but still. Maybe they can use it against the dicks wearing V for Vendetta masks too.
> 
> 
> 
> (From http://www.essexchronicle.co.uk/Bri...tory-25808029-detail/story.html#ixzz3O41rxNNO )


That's what it is - first prosecution being against an anti-fascist i seem to remember. Don't think they can use it against those clowns - they do have something to use against people masked up though.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 6, 2015)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Order_Act_1936



> In November 1974, 12 people were each fined the maximum £50 under the Act for wearing black berets at Speaker's Corner during a Sinn Féin anti-internment rally.[7]



It's one of those discretionary laws for use against people the state doesn't like isn't it?  I've no sympathy for Golding, but this charge smacks of vindictive bullshit.

Maybe they could nick a few Orangemen?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 6, 2015)

it doesn't count in NI for some reason.

I saw a docu on the Cable Street mural a week or two back and the historian bloke was saying how it was the thin end of the wedge and ended up being used against organised dissent throughout the empire


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 6, 2015)

It fits the anti-extremist logic and agenda of hope not hate and their progenitors to a tee though. Extremism being a movable feast.


----------



## Nice one (Jan 6, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Order_Act_1936
> 
> 
> 
> ...



completely discretionary because what constitutes a 'political uniform' isn't defined in law.  Think Golding's got good grounds for appeal - back in the day members of the Social Credit party were acquitted of the same charge despite wearing all green with armbands displaying the party's insignia.


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 6, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Top class _full time_ anti-fascist sexism here:



From Hope not Hate - well what can you expect?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 7, 2015)

Events in Paris just gave edl and associates yet another last chance.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 7, 2015)

Think this'll also stoke up the Pegida lot won't it?  Hate feeding off hate everywhere. Fuck this century.


----------



## treelover (Jan 7, 2015)

Tommy is all over it, I think he will see himself as a key figure in the pan Europe movement that is emerging.


----------



## bemused (Jan 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Tommy is all over it, I think he will see himself as a key figure in the pan Europe movement that is emerging.



I thought he'd joined the human race and given up on the hate game?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 7, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


>



It renders my handywork obsolete.


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 7, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Is a 'fair-weather anti-fascist' someone who refuses to get out of bed to oppose an almost-defunct group on a drizzly Saturday morning?



Is it a last chance? Are they defunct? To be honest they didn't manage to make much of Rotherham (many of us feared another post Lee Rigby style upswing) so this might not re-ignite the EDL per se. However a successor organisation could make hay here.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 7, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Is it a last chance? Are they defunct? To be honest they didn't manage to make much of Rotherham (many of us feared another post Lee Rigby style upswing) so this might not re-ignite the EDL per se. However a successor organisation could make hay here.



I made that comment ages ago so it bears little relation to the events of today.


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 7, 2015)

About a fortnight ago in fact.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 7, 2015)

My crystal ball is an old model so only has a range of ten days unfortunately.


----------



## treelover (Jan 7, 2015)

T/R seems to have declared war on the left going by his tweets as well, they are hyperbolic..

though the woman founder of 'Free Gaza' saying it was Mossad doesn't help..


----------



## Paulie (Jan 7, 2015)

treelover said:


> Tommy is all over it, I think he will see himself as a key figure in the pan Europe movement that is emerging.


Is Tommy post-EDL still funded by Alan Lake/Ayling?


----------



## ddraig (Jan 8, 2015)

Quillian (sp?) foundation now?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 8, 2015)

he is trying to capitlaise on charlie hebdo situation. bloodsucking egomaniac who misses the limelight. also the money. ayling was exposed as being behind EDL which embarrassed him as did his links with 'zionist' groups and pam geller etc.he backed out. not sure if quilliam are using him still.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 8, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> he is trying to capitlaise on charlie hebdo situation. bloodsucking egomaniac who misses the limelight. also the money. ayling was exposed as being behind EDL which embarrassed him as did his links with 'zionist' groups and pam geller etc.he backed out. not sure if quilliam are using him still.



I believe himself and Qulliam parted company before his last spell in the nick.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 8, 2015)

yeah, his criminal record has often compromised him. he was booted from the fluffy fascist British Freedom over it and his failure to bring the EDL vote over as well as quilliam. we will see how UKIP respond. he is a career criminal and bad political juju.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jan 8, 2015)

_i'm no angel..._


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 8, 2015)

Robinson is finished politically - he was sentenced for mortgage fraud so hasn't really got any martyr points. However his "leadership" of the EDL was to the advantage of anti-fascists. More worrying is somebody  (who isn't a coke addled wide boy ) pulling together the strands that made up the far-right's street presence and re-invigorating the movement. It might not happen - Paul Golding now looks like a bungler and Griffin even got booted out of the BNP.  However the EDL was a formative experience for many and while they might not be making the effort to travel to the demos - given the right call they might well re-appear.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah, his criminal record has often compromised him. he was booted from the fluffy fascist British Freedom over it and his failure to bring the EDL vote over as well as quilliam. we will see how UKIP respond. he is a career criminal and bad political juju.


don't see what it has to do with the jujus


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2015)

ddraig said:


> Quillian (sp?) foundation now?


quilliaM


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Events in Paris just gave edl and associates yet another last chance.


they've had more last chances than pete doherty


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 8, 2015)

More farewell tours than Staus Quo.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> More farewell tours than Staus Quo.


or the damned


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jan 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> or the damned


....or more street cred than Gary Glitter!


----------



## Wilf (Jan 9, 2015)

I was at a joint Teesside Solidarity/Movement for Justice meeting tonight which the edl tried to disrupt. After one ineffectual attempt at getting in the building, they stood uncertainly in the street, poised between going back to the pub and remembering what they'd turned up to do.


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 9, 2015)

Is this a regular feature of leftist life in Teesside?


----------



## Wilf (Jan 9, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Is this a regular feature of leftist life in Teesside?


 Dunno, I'd have to check with the leftists.   But yes, there's been a couple of attempts at intimidating people going into meetings.  Poice were there last night (not called by us), so it ended up being nothing more than the aforementioned 'standing in the road'.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2015)

so by opposing a movement for justice meeting we can assume that they are happy with the justice system that jails them for several years for the birmingham riot. not unlike when the infidel scab group tried to attack an anti-cuts demo in manchester so they must be happy with the cuts. Eejits.


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 9, 2015)

Tbh - I'd rather they were having a pop at lefty meetings (if they're adequately defended of course) and generally being anti-left rather than us having to deal with some anti-immigration anti-austerity Strasserism.

Out of interest - which particular flavour of fash was it? NF, EDL or Infidels. The EDL actually haven't done much targetting of the left before now.


----------



## gamerunknown (Jan 9, 2015)

Movement for Justice does tend to focus on anti-racism and pro-immigration issues rather than justice reform in toto. I don't think the types of groups discussed in this thread would come up with a coherent critique of the justice system (perhaps other than arguing for the reinstatement of corporal and capital punishment, banning protests outside soldiers' return events, rescinding incitement legislation, repatriation...), though the BNP did have an online campaign arguing that the police were biased against them.


----------



## krink (Jan 9, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> The EDL actually haven't done much targetting of the left before now.



they have up here in north east since day one. the rhetoric is always 'muslims' but their activities are always 'get the lefties'. some have been jailed for this stuff etc...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2015)

It is likely that NF and infidels were involved as they dominate the far right in the NE. EDL are involved in a rather amusing spat about missing funds and are spread pretty thinly on round the country. oh, and pickmans, re: ju-ju's, I meant something else but I can't remember what it is.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2015)

i think EDL activity was determined by local leaders as it is not anounced as part of their agenda. there was the case where some EDL attacked an Irish centre in full view of CCTv and i think they were jailed for it. a father and son clown double act were involved.
edit: more on NE here
https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2011/12/08/its-all-fall-out-with-the-infidels/


----------



## krink (Jan 9, 2015)

i wouldn't say anyone really dominates the far right in the north east, they all turn up at each other's events anyway*. the edl in north east was until recently ran by ex bnp (alan spence one of those jailed along with his son). the edl have also been harrassing the rcg's street stalls for quite a while (including the nobheads from teesside edl Wilf ). 

* the exception being the NF factions avoiding each other like the plague.


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 9, 2015)

The far-right have certainly attacked or had a go at attacking lefty stuff down here in Brighton, a meeting on multiculturalism, a book launch, threats to Occupy  etc - just not under the EDL banner.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 9, 2015)

hey krink, isnt that biggs buffoon leading the NE NF? also, which side of the NF split are they siding with?


----------



## Wilf (Jan 9, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Tbh - I'd rather they were having a pop at lefty meetings (if they're adequately defended of course) and generally being anti-left rather than us having to deal with some anti-immigration anti-austerity Strasserism.
> 
> Out of interest - which particular flavour of fash was it? NF, EDL or Infidels. The EDL actually haven't done much targetting of the left before now.


 Not 100% sure. They weren't there when I arrived, though the old bill were, but it was announced in the meeting that 'the edl are outside'.  Suspect they were infidels as they had a similar go at intimidation when we organising against an edl march last year.

By the by, whilst I'm not that fussed about labels, Teesside Solidarity isn't really _leftist_. It's an intentionally boad based anti-cuts/solidarity movement, with afew trots/liberals certainly, but its way of working has shifted in an anarcho direction over the last year or so. Hardly any swp presence. Usual tensions, as with any group, but the focus is pretty much hands on solidarity.


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 9, 2015)

Leftist/lefty - you know what I mean. We're all commies and soapdodgers as far as they're concerned.


----------



## krink (Jan 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> hey krink, isnt that biggs buffoon leading the NE NF? also, which side of the NF split are they siding with?



Biggs went from the real NF to the splitters in Northern Patriotic Front then back to the real NF


----------



## Wilf (Jan 9, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Leftist/lefty - you know what I mean. We're all commies and soapdodgers as far as they're concerned.


 Sorry, thought you were having a dig.


----------



## treelover (Jan 9, 2015)

> http://www.newsweek.com/anti-islam-marches-will-come-britain-says-former-edl-leader-robinson-297257



TR clearly moving up a gear, major interview in Newsweek.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 10, 2015)

heavy manner from brum courts:  
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...ers-who-terrorised-birmingham-8416133#rlabs=1


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jan 10, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> heavy manner from brum courts:
> http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...ers-who-terrorised-birmingham-8416133#rlabs=1


Wow, what a fine upstanding set of men that gallery is...... jeez, put me off my dinner that did


----------



## mr steev (Jan 13, 2015)

Newcastle EDL disrupt a book group meeting
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/see-edl-members-abuse-newcastle-8433915


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 13, 2015)

That's a very interesting report - the brand stuff at the end esp. That's exactly what we encountered down here on the day after lee rigby was killd and they had a big march from kingswood though what they see as leftie areas into town - pure class hatred diverted into bollocks.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2015)

slightly late article on recent developments: 
https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2015/01/16/its-the-pitts-old-boring-sad/


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 16, 2015)

My feeling is that the journo had hoped that Pitt's crew were going to turn into something bigger over the course of the year and that he'd have a real story to tell. Instead he was reduced to throwing dark hints about secret militias. Almost feel sorry for him but he made a massive dick of himself when he threw his toys out of the pram after being told he couldn't film inside a STOP MFE public meeting.

It really bugged me that none of the right wingers were asked - Why Brighton?


----------



## ddraig (Jan 16, 2015)

maybe not edl but a nasty piece of work
*Mold Tesco 'racist' attack: 'Asian' man chased with 'huge knife' in supermarket shopping aisle*
*http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mold-tesco-racist-attack-asian-4979810
no need for scare quotes*


----------



## treelover (Jan 16, 2015)

Viewing Tommy Robinson's Twitter, he is clearly preparing the ground for a re-launch, his Oxford Union speech is getting thousands of views a day and many posters seem to be saying they now "think he was right" and they want him to "step up to the plate", as he surely will when court restrictions are lifted from him in a few months. he seems to be really stirring things up but also learnt to be more 'professional'

btw, no shooting the messenger,

Oh, and EDL News still doesn't get it, "balding middle aged angry men" could be describing plenty on here!


----------



## Thunderfist (Jan 16, 2015)

Tommy might well step back up - maybe with another vehicle. However he's not the political genius in exile that the HnH brigade are depicting him as. If we take it as read that he was the leader of the EDL then even before his mortage fraud problems it was clear that the organisation was struggling for ideas at the same time as the opposition were (very slowly) getting more organised.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 16, 2015)

ddraig said:


> maybe not edl but a nasty piece of work
> *Mold Tesco 'racist' attack: 'Asian' man chased with 'huge knife' in supermarket shopping aisle*
> *http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mold-tesco-racist-attack-asian-4979810
> no need for scare quotes*



Hmm.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 16, 2015)

yeah, proper sickos
their #tag don't work!
"Lion of Allah" is a bit wtf too


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jan 16, 2015)

Crack heads, the fucking lot of them.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 16, 2015)

treelover said:


> ,
> 
> Oh, and EDL News still doesn't get it, "balding middle aged angry men" could be describing plenty on here!



cheeky swine! i am not angry!


----------



## Serotonin (Jan 17, 2015)

ddraig said:


> maybe not edl but a nasty piece of work
> *Mold Tesco 'racist' attack: 'Asian' man chased with 'huge knife' in supermarket shopping aisle*
> *http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mold-tesco-racist-attack-asian-4979810
> no need for scare quotes*




I'm hearing he's in with National Action, knows that muppet Garron Helm who got nicked for abusive tweets to the Jewish MP, Berger.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 17, 2015)

the guy is a neo-nazi, photos of him with swastika flag knocking about. total psycho and released a nutty video a couple of hours before the attack. the victim just some poor bloke at the shops. glad he's alive though.


----------



## Limerick Red (Jan 17, 2015)

Been saying for a while, when (not if) another brevick/copeland happens , the purpotrator will have national action links.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 17, 2015)

Is anyone interested in contributing to a  thread on monitoring the Islamic far right like Al-Mujahiroun and Choudrays  networks ?


----------



## ddraig (Jan 17, 2015)

Thought one had been started a while back?


----------



## chilango (Jan 17, 2015)

ddraig said:


> maybe not edl but a nasty piece of work
> *Mold Tesco 'racist' attack: 'Asian' man chased with 'huge knife' in supermarket shopping aisle*
> *http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mold-tesco-racist-attack-asian-4979810
> no need for scare quotes*




My mum does her shopping in that Tesco.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 17, 2015)

Hope just a one off 'lone wolf' nutter


----------



## chilango (Jan 17, 2015)

ddraig said:


> Hope just a one off 'lone wolf' nutter



There's never been a large scale far-right presence in the area, but always been one or two long term activists for as long as I can remember.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2015)

the tesco bloke is National Action and his cronies are saddened - by his arrest. sick fuxxers.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 18, 2015)

ddraig said:


> Thought one had been started a while back?


Do you know where it is?


----------



## laptop (Jan 18, 2015)

ddraig said:


> *Mold Tesco 'racist' attack: 'Asian' man chased with 'huge knife' in supermarket shopping aisle*
> *http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mold-tesco-racist-attack-asian-4979810
> no need for scare quotes*



It certainly looks racist, yes. But yer man hasn't yet been convicted of racially-agravated assault, as against, say, just-awa-wi't-fairies assault. Nor has his sentence been adjusted for that...

I'm now wondering whether that was an entirely accidental side-effect of the way the racially-aggravated stuff was legislated: "no, we can't say this was a racist assault right now", the cops can so often say...


Doesn't help that the _Mirror_ confused the issue by using "look, we have an eyewitness" quotes in the same headline as scare quotes.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Do you know where it is?


No sorry , ask treelover


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 18, 2015)

interesting comment on lonewolfism: 
'If indeed some bloke has decided that he is prepared to engage in an act that will result at best in him spending the next thirty years of his life behind bars then without a shadow of doubt he has to be totally insane. To give up absolutely everything to commit an act so ridiculously futile yet with such serious consequences can only be described as insane in my opinion.' (stormfront)
oh, and tesco-psycho was shouting 'white power' and has mates , photos and links on facebook all showing him to be a nazi-nutcase.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 18, 2015)

Ai, it's on the page before this


----------



## Nigel (Jan 19, 2015)

treelover said:


> Viewing Tommy Robinson's Twitter, he is clearly preparing the ground for a re-launch, his Oxford Union speech is getting thousands of views a day and many posters seem to be saying they now "think he was right" and they want him to "step up to the plate", as he surely will when court restrictions are lifted from him in a few months. he seems to be really stirring things up but also learnt to be more 'professional'
> 
> btw, no shooting the messenger,
> 
> Oh, and EDL News still doesn't get it, "balding middle aged angry men" could be describing plenty on here!


Apparently Le Pen has applied to speak at Oxford Union !


----------



## laptop (Jan 20, 2015)

Nigel said:


> Apparently Le Pen has applied to speak at Oxford Union !



I'm fairly sure one just does not "apply" to speak at the Union. One awaits the call.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 20, 2015)

laptop said:


> I'm fairly sure one just does not "apply" to speak at the Union. One awaits the call.



Indeed. She's talking at the CAMBRIDGE uni union on the 5th of February. AGAIN.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 20, 2015)

Wrt attack in Mold


> The British Sikh community has expressed great concern over the North Wales Police, Crown Prosecution Service and UK media response to this incident. Kam Singh of Sikh Channel stated “Despite the incident in Wales clearly demonstrating a terrorist attack has taken place against a British male, neither the Police, Crown Prosecution Service, Politicians or Media have provided anywhere near an adequate response to the incident in line with other terror attacks. Furthermore, the whole incident is being actively downplayed despite containing all the ingredients of a terrorist attack. The culprit has clearly been witnessed exhibiting his extremist ideology during the process of his attack on a random innocent male. The incident should be addressed as a terror attack and the Police across the United Kingdom should be be allocating resources towards the security of all vulnerable communities and religious establishments. Sikhs regularly face the backlash following Islamist terror attacks in the Western hemisphere however the Police still appear oblivious to the risk to the Sikh community. The media has openly reported the vulnerability of the Jewish community but remain mute on the Sikhs.


http://www.sikhchannel.tv/attempted-murder-of-sikh-male-in-uk-terror-attack/


----------



## Nigel (Jan 20, 2015)

laptop said:


> I'm fairly sure one just does not "apply" to speak at the Union. One awaits the call.


You obviously have no idea how such institutions run !
https://www.facebook.com/events/775978299157913/


----------



## laptop (Jan 20, 2015)

Nigel said:


> You obviously have no idea how such institutions run !
> https://www.facebook.com/events/775978299157913/



No. I do have some idea. What's that Facebook page to do with the toffs at the Oxford Union?


----------



## Nigel (Jan 20, 2015)

laptop said:


> No. I do have some idea. What's that Facebook page to do with the toffs at the Oxford Union?


It used to be my local for about 5/6 years; still use Three Goatswhich is associated with OU and I still use its library, so I think that I've a better understanding of how it runs and its internal politics of such institution than most !
http://uaf.org.uk/2015/01/no-to-fascist-marine-le-pen-at-the-oxford-union/


----------



## ddraig (Jan 21, 2015)

'Leader' of racist Welsh group North Wales Alliance sent down for 17 years.
This news came out days after their attempted demo in Cardiff and they deleted the Facebook groups for north and south Wales alliance with one member saying 'in Merv we trust'
Utter scum, hypocritical nasty scum
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/...se-4220welsh-nazi-jailed-for-child-abuse-4220

First link I've seen, try not to visit HnH usually


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 21, 2015)

Link no work- try this.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 21, 2015)

Ta
Better link too!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 21, 2015)

ddraig said:


> http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider/welsh-nazi-jailed-for-child-abuse-4220
> 
> First link I've seen, try not to visit HnH usually



Fixed


----------



## ddraig (Jan 21, 2015)

Ta too


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 21, 2015)

serial pedophile and rapist Jones on the right, CxF, NWA, EDL supporter, and on the left, Michael Woodward, CXF, Infidels, EDL supporter - child porn. dunno the guy in the middle but i doubt the pic is on his mantlepiece.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 21, 2015)

any idea where the pic was taken?


----------



## chilango (Jan 21, 2015)

ddraig said:


> any idea where the pic was taken?


Might be wrong (and I haven't checked) but it looks a bit like Mold Bus Station. 

Shotton a few years back had a spate of swastika graffiti and then a little while after a fledgling BNP group.

It seemed disconnected from/to other Fash activity in N Wales that was more "Welsh" and third positionist in orientation.

Sketchy memories on my part though.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 21, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...azi-group-it-could-just-have-easily-been-isis



> One night Mal invited me to tag along to one of the group’s semi-regular gatherings. As I listened to one of the speakers rally his audience against the “foreign invaders”, I was immediately hooked. It was not I that had problems, I was told, it was people of another skin colour.
> 
> The confusion that had been my constant companion, now viewed through this extremist lens, had suddenly become both figuratively and literally black and white. No longer was I to blame for anything. I didn’t need to look at my part in my own downward spiral, as teachers, family members and police kept telling me. All life’s troubles, it seemed, were the doing of non-whites.
> 
> ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 22, 2015)

ddraig said:


> any idea where the pic was taken?



its been knocking around a while. i have used it several times in the various 'malatesta' sex offender lists. i would guess it is hope not hates or someone lifted it from facebook. no idea of where though. 

https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2014/11/19/updated-edl-nonce-list/

i am having to update this every other week and i have to divide it into sex offences and violence against women and children. very, very depressing.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 22, 2015)

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...azi-group-it-could-just-have-easily-been-isis

definitely not this Mal!


----------



## ddraig (Jan 22, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> serial pedophile and rapist Jones on the right, CxF, NWA, EDL supporter, and on the left, Michael Woodward, CXF, Infidels, EDL supporter - child porn. dunno the guy in the middle but i doubt the pic is on his mantlepiece.


http://www.deeside.com/police-and-c...y-revealing-names-sex-abuse-victims-facebook/
His wife thinks he's Ched Evans


> The woman has been named by the Daily Post as Anne Jones the wife of jailed Merfyn Jones.
> 
> DI Kelly Isaacs of the Amethyst Team at North Wales Police said:
> 
> ...


----------



## Nigel (Feb 2, 2015)

Anyone know anything about this or who they are ?
http://jewdas.org/oppose-the-liberate-stamford-hill-demo-in-clapton/


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 2, 2015)

Nigel said:


> Anyone know anything about this or who they are ?
> http://jewdas.org/oppose-the-liberate-stamford-hill-demo-in-clapton/



Bonehill is a nazi troll basically. Trying to stir up trouble in an area where there are lots of ultra Orthodox Jews. (I also live there). 

Don't know much about Jewdas, fair play to them, but I'd be surprised if the event actually took place.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 2, 2015)

bonehill is a juvenile and irrelevant sideshow who thrives on attention. few take him seriously and he operates on his own. and 'jew baiting'? its a bit mosley isnt it? on trial today. he has various court cases coming up against him:
http://www.westerngazette.co.uk/fac...hua-Bonehill/story-25956621-detail/story.html


----------



## Nigel (Feb 2, 2015)

Was a bit worried about putting this about just in case it was a hoax, but according to some it is official: Didn't want to fall into any anti semitic/nazi publicity scam.
The whole Jewdas thing looks a bit suspicious as well; using anti fascist action for one thing.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 2, 2015)

Nigel said:


> Was a bit worried about putting this about just in case it was a hoax, but according to some it is official: Didn't want to fall into any anti semitic/nazi publicity scam.
> The whole Jewdas thing looks a bit suspicious as well; using anti fascist action for one thing.


Next you'll be saying the Hebrew Hammer isn't real


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 2, 2015)

Nigel said:


> Was a bit worried about putting this about just in case it was a hoax, but according to some it is official: Didn't want to fall into any anti semitic/nazi publicity scam.
> The whole Jewdas thing looks a bit suspicious as well; using anti fascist action for one thing.



North London Antifa statement
https://northlondonantifa.wordpress...eed-liberating-stamford-hill-is-already-free/


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 3, 2015)

'National Action is a group of young neo-nazis who have previously stated Combat 18 as their direct inspiration.' the Combat 18 that collapsed into infighting, state infiltration, grassing and murder? good role model.


----------



## Nigel (Feb 3, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Next you'll be saying the Hebrew Hammer isn't real


Is this metaphysical ?!
On a serious note just wanted to check it out, especially as this guy Bonehill has a reputation for hoaxes.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2015)

Fuck knows if this is of any use on this particular  thread and leaving aside discussions of chasing jordan's  hollywood nazis but:


CALL-OUT: appeal for witnesses at anti-fascist protest in March 2014

Bindmans solicitors have asked us to circulate an appeal for witnesses to the arrest of an individual they represent who is facing a trial at Southwark Crown Court in early April. He is charged with encouraging or assisting others to commit summary offences in connection with a demonstration against the English Volunteer Force (EVF) that took place in central London on 15th March 2014.

They are looking for witnesses who may have been present near to the fenced off area opposite Parliament, which was due to be used for the EVF standing rally at approximately 1:45pm on this date, and who may have witnessed the incident.

Contact details here.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 7, 2015)

Great shot from Dudley today!







Full set - http://londonnewspictures.photoshelter.com/gallery/2015-02-07-EDL-Dudley-JGO/G00009_qcTMmpUss/


----------



## brogdale (Feb 7, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Great shot from Dudley today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The signs in the full set all share the same hand-written font/style. Looks like the work of one busy person.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 7, 2015)

brogdale said:


> The signs in the full set all share the same hand-written font/style.



A _lot_ of them, certainly. But not this one, which both looks slightly less ‘my bestest handwriting’, and quaintly gives off a somewhat more middle-of-the-road message


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 8, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Great shot from Dudley today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i reckon he's given up his hopes of a childcare job.  what a total jizzspigot.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 8, 2015)

hacked: 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology-science/technology/islamic-hackers-pull-down-english-5118180
antifa
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/edl-watch-moment-english-defence-5121087


----------



## gamerunknown (Feb 8, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Great shot from Dudley today!



Nice circled A underneath his chin. Something tells me he leans more towards Proudhon's less illustrious texts and not so much towards Rocker's take on the matter.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 9, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Great shot from Dudley today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 "Right, how much racism can I get onto my head?"


----------



## LeMoose (Feb 9, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Great shot from Dudley today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is one of the weirdest fucking things I have ever seen in my life.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 9, 2015)

LeMoose said:


> That is one of the weirdest fucking things I have ever seen in my life.


Would have been funny if the tattooist had deliberately spelt one of the words wrong. That would have made him look _really_ silly.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 10, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Would have been funny if the tattooist had deliberately spelt one of the words wrong. That would have made him look _really_ silly.


I wonder if his mum still loves him?


----------



## Thunderfist (Feb 15, 2015)

Ill tidings from Dudley? http://antifascistnetwork.org/2015/02/09/opposing-the-edl-in-dudley-reports-and-thoughts/


----------



## moonstomp (Feb 15, 2015)

Respect for sticking there's necks out but not sure trolling out the old '' Police protect the nazis'' ring true when there's about 40 of you and 600 plus of the opposition , at some point its going to result in some serious injuries for the Antis if the ''police don't protect the nazis''


----------



## ddraig (Feb 15, 2015)

usually the racists are outnumbered by quite a bit no?
what would happen then then?


----------



## ddraig (Feb 15, 2015)

also the only way they can have their little protests or openly be in pubs is generally with police protection.
not all of the time of course


----------



## Thunderfist (Feb 15, 2015)

The racists aren't usually outnumbered by the counter protestors. That's a UAF or SLATEDL myth. Very often it's the other way round. Not sure that anyone was shouting "Police protect the Nazis" in Dudley (or oldham)


----------



## ddraig (Feb 15, 2015)

are you sure? must have been looking at different pics and reports then
i am aware that it is not always the case but on balance i thought antis generally outnumbered the idiots
will of course accept different view if that is the consensus and stuff to back it up


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 15, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> The racists aren't usually outnumbered by the counter protestors. That's a UAF or SLATEDL myth. Very often it's the other way round.



In Brighton, the racists are always outnumbered.


----------



## moonstomp (Feb 15, 2015)

I was referring to a quote from the website linked above '' Yesterday we saw the fash protected by the police '',I agree the EDL are sometimes faced by larger numbers and don't always get there own way e.g Brighton ,I'm not doubting individuals bravery in confronting the EDL but at the same time It looks like they are expecting the plod to get in the way , maybe that's there intentions as a tactic in itself but the posturing about confronting often much larger numbers is going to end badly.


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## ddraig (Feb 15, 2015)

it's no worse than the 5w bullshit when they clearly don't go where they want or go when people aren't around, take a pic and claim they infiltrated or dressed in black and slipped though unnoticed


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## moonstomp (Feb 15, 2015)

Being No worse than the 5w numpties isnt something to shout about tbh. AFN hearts in right place just not sure about the delivery.


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## Thunderfist (Feb 15, 2015)

Mr Bishie is technically wrong I'm afraid - the March for England has been outnumbered (and out classed ) in Brighton since 2012. Previous marches (2009 -2011) were not effectively opposed - which is why we got our act together.


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 16, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Mr Bishie is technically wrong I'm afraid - the March for England has been outnumbered (and out classed ) in Brighton since 2012. Previous marches (2009 -2011) were not effectively opposed - which is why we got our act together.



Not quite correct - the first mfe in 2008 was unopposed, as was 2009. Thereafter opposition has outnumbered them


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## Thunderfist (Feb 16, 2015)

This is a bit of an angels on the head of the pin discussion but the full run down goes something like this (from Stop MFE website). I suppose I jumped on what you said because there has been a bit of tendency to assume that the opposition to them in Brighton is a given as opposed to being the result of a lot of hard work (street stalls, meetings, leaflets, stickers, propaganda stunts at archaelogical sites of interest etc)


*2008*
Their first Brighton outing was in April 2008 and was unopposed . Eyewitnesses reported racist abuse directed against the public, but we have no direct (i.e recorded) evidence for this.


*2009*
2009 saw another largely unopposed demonstration.

*2010*
This year saw the first significant counter-mobilisation by anti-fascists to the MfE as by then it was seen as a front group for the then expanding EDL.Unite against Fascism (UAF) staged a counter demonstration against the MfE, taking the form of a rally opposite the King and Queen pub on the Old Steine, the end point of the march. Other non-aligned anti-fascists actually joined the MfE, by taking them at their word as being anti-racists and joining their parade to announce why . They were roundly condemned by the MfE on the day and received a great deal of abuse for handing out a leaflet celebrating a different kind of pride in Englishness (see “England For All”, right).
One MfE marcher, Ryan Williams from Dorset plead guilty to assault (in October 2010) following an incident on this march.

This intervention by antifascists provoked the English Nationalist Alliance, a more overtly racist grouping run by Bill Baker, to return on the Monday of the August Bank Holiday weekend. This time round the ENA mustered around fifty supporters and due to a large mobilisation by Sussex Police were able to march from the train station to the Old Steine although their march was re-routed due to action by anti-fascists. Chants on this march included “You lot all take it up the arse” and “Allah is a paedo”. Although this wasn’t billed as an official MfE event it still features on their website.

One prominent member of MfE – Steven Sands was arrested for GBH after knocking out and hospitalizing an anti-fascist protestor during an ambush outside the Fountainhead pub. Charges were subsequently dropped despite the fact that at least one police office recorded having witnessed the assault.


*October 2010* – the English Nationalist Alliance attempted to disrupt a SMASH EDOdemonstration with leader Bill Baker saying “SmashEDO is an organisation funded by Palestinian Exiles and Islamic groups to generate socialist political activities against companies that provide military technology to our armed forces so as to weaken our capabilities in carrying out military activities in the Middle East conflict and Afghanistan.” The organisation claimed to have infiltrated Smash EDOs ranks.Although organiser Bill Baker didn’t actually make it on the day,  MfE steward Mark Crosby was involved and was arrested for Affray.

*2011*
On April 5th a mob of around thirty EDL, including known faces from the March for England such as Mark Crosby, attacked a meeting being held by Unite Against Fascism on the subject of ‘Defending Multiculturalism’. Only the determination of a handful of people on the door prevented them gaining access.
April 22nd Just three weeks later, Brighton saw a huge mobilisation by Sussex Police to push the MfE through town during the Royal Wedding bank holiday weekend. They were met at the station by a significant counter-mobilisation of over two hundred. However a large police operation escorted the right-wingers through town while holding the counter-demo in a pen.

*2012*
March 17th Brighton EDL, headed up by none other than Mark Crosby staged demonstrations outside a book launch and later met up at Churchill Square to harass the Palestine Solidarity Campaign’s stall. Three of them were arrested.Links to videos of the event.

April 22nd – The March for England was met with a resounding counter-demonstration that forced the march to be re-routed. Brighton residents turned out in their hundreds if not thousands to line the route of the march and let MfE know they were not welcome. For an account of the day
June 2nd Casuals United attempted to return to Brighton announcing “you have sown the wind ..now you will reap the whirlwind”. In the event a robust anti-fascist presence and the presence of 500 police turned the event into a flop with the far-right crowd marched out of town.
*2013*
January 19th – a handful of far-right activists demonstrated outside the house of Brighton resident Omar Deghayes, a Guantanamo detainee. 


April 21st The March for England is met with the biggest counter demonstration yet. An estimated 2,000 people turned out to line the route of the march and oppose them. In the event the march was routed along the seafront. The only way the MfE could march was by being surrounded with police inside temporarily erected steel walls.


November 22nd – St Edmund’s Day – This was publicised as another revenge mission to Brighton to avenge the insult to the honour of England’s ‘real’ patron saint. Nothing happened of interest to anyone other than medieval historians.


*2014*
The MfE announce their intention to return on April 27th – watch this space!


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## Thunderfist (Feb 21, 2015)

Well it looks like we're going to find out if Brighton always outnumbers the racists - EDL National DEMO, Brighton 18th April.


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## BigMoaner (Feb 21, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Great shot from Dudley today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that guys going to be really hard to identify as he has one of those faces that just blends into the crowd.


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## ddraig (Feb 21, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Well it looks like we're going to find out if Brighton always outnumbers the racists - EDL National DEMO, Brighton 18th April.


lol
really, how much do you want to bet?
bless


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## The Boy (Feb 21, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> that guys going to be really hard to identify as he has one of those faces that just blends into the crowd.


He's in the skin herd, innit.


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## Thunderfist (Feb 21, 2015)

ddraig said:


> lol
> really, how much do you want to bet?
> bless



I'm an anti btw.


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## raknor (Feb 21, 2015)

Seems they have scheduled one for Woolwich on May 16th as well.


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## ddraig (Feb 21, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I'm an anti btw.


So you don't reckon Brighton of all places will have enough anti's


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## Limerick Red (Feb 21, 2015)

ddraig said:


> So you don't reckon Brighton of all places will have enough anti's


Please read thunders other posts re: march for England, Brighton isn't some place where everyone is born antifascist, the strong opposition in Brighton is from years of dedicated organising, this is how the MFE was defeated in its final few marches, he is argueing against the very attitude your displaying "ah sure it'll be grand, everyone in Brighton Hates them"
It's this attitude that has the EDL still the largest far right group in the country while a lot of the liberal left are wiping their hands, thinking "that's the end if that" , or these fucking edl news type websites saying " the edl only managed a pathetic 600 in x town today", 600 is a lot of fuckin people!


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 21, 2015)

Any links for this edl brighton in April? Looked this morning but couldn't find owt. Ta.


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## Thunderfist (Feb 21, 2015)

EDL main FB page - "dates for your diary."


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## ddraig (Feb 21, 2015)

Limerick Red said:


> Please read thunders other posts re: march for England, Brighton isn't some place where everyone is born antifascist, the strong opposition in Brighton is from years of dedicated organising, this is how the MFE was defeated in its final few marches, he is argueing against the very attitude your displaying "ah sure it'll be grand, everyone in Brighton Hates them"
> It's this attitude that has the EDL still the largest far right group in the country while a lot of the liberal left are wiping their hands, thinking "that's the end if that" , or these fucking edl news type websites saying " the edl only managed a pathetic 600 in x town today", 600 is a lot of fuckin people!


You've got me wrong there and I don't doubt it was due to years of hard work and ongoing work. Have been discussing just this today with more experienced people about what works


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## Limerick Red (Feb 22, 2015)

ddraig said:


> You've got me wrong there and I don't doubt it was due to years of hard work and ongoing work. Have been discussing just this today with more experienced people about what works


Fair enough


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## nino_savatte (Mar 1, 2015)

Joshua Bonehead makes a tool of himself on LBC.
http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/03/01/joshua-bonehill-calls-lbc-to-discuss-anal-sex-and-it-ends-badly/


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## J Ed (Mar 1, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Joshua Bonehead makes a tool of himself on LBC.
> http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/03/01/joshua-bonehill-calls-lbc-to-discuss-anal-sex-and-it-ends-badly/



I don't understand why LBC saw fit to give this bigot any airtime at all let alone 25 minutes of it to pontificate live on air.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 1, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I don't understand why LBC saw fit to give this bigot any airtime at all let alone 25 minutes of it to pontificate live on air.


I'm not sure, but I'd guess this was a late night phone-in. But I agree, no one should give this dangerous loon airtime.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 4, 2015)

EDL Bottle Brighton!
http://edlnews.co.uk/…/english-defence-league-bottle-brigh…


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## Kev Scott LTJ (Mar 4, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL Bottle Brighton!
> http://edlnews.co.uk/…/english-defence-league-bottle-brigh…



Oh dear! "We go where we like"................ we "like" Oxford as we are less likely to get out asses kicked............ Anyone know if Oxford AF are active?


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## malatesta32 (Mar 4, 2015)

bottle jobs


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## gamerunknown (Mar 4, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> EDL Bottle Brighton!
> http://edlnews.co.uk/…/english-defence-league-bottle-brigh…



They've rendered a bunch of stickering futile.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 4, 2015)

Mixed feelings about this - from soundings taken Brighton was going to get ready for them. Now they've swerved that and will be heading to towns where they are more likely to have successful demos. Anti-fascism is in a bit of a piss-poor state right now - the UAF has virtually folded and groups like the AFN aren't filling that vacuum. Online mockers like SLATEDL give people the impression that the EDL have collapsed when they haven't and often make us look like a bunch of snobs into the bargain.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 4, 2015)

gamerunknown said:


> They've rendered a bunch of stickering futile.



Quite a few have gone up too!


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## Thunderfist (Mar 4, 2015)

I put up a few this morning! Guess they'll become collector's items like a misprinted Penny Black or something.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 4, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Mixed feelings about this - from soundings taken Brighton was going to get ready for them. Now they've swerved that and will be heading to towns where they are more likely to have successful demos. Anti-fascism is in a bit of a piss-poor state right now - the UAF has virtually folded and groups like the AFN aren't filling that vacuum. Online mockers like SLATEDL give people the impression that the EDL have collapsed when they haven't and often make us look like a bunch of snobs into the bargain.


tbh i don't think the uaf's been more than a puffed up paper bag for a very long time anyway.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 4, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> View attachment 68389 bottle jobs


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## Thunderfist (Mar 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh i don't think the uaf's been more than a puffed up paper bag for a very long time anyway.



The point being that they were the only group capable of mobilising thousands and no-one's come along to take their place.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 4, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> The point being that they were the only group capable of mobilising thousands and no-one's come along to take their place.


it's not like they did much even when people did come along, bar weyman bennett's occasionally calling other anti-fascists racist.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 4, 2015)

I always end up in this position, I'm not UAF in the slightest but I end up defending them. As an organisation they until relatively recently consistently counter-mobilised to every EDL demo - something other anti-fascists were not able to do. There are huge problems with the way they behave - the centralisation, the police liaison, the caution when it came to direct action but they were there. Their collapse has left a vacuum that means that racists get to march down the street unimpeded.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 4, 2015)

Anti fascist locals have taken up the mantle - & they really don't get to march around unimpeded (other than when protected by filth). And I'm sure locals will travel to Oxford in support.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 4, 2015)

They do in Rotherham, sadly.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 4, 2015)

Yorkshire (Sheffield anti fascist network) were out in numbers. What the fuck can you do when out numbered by filth protecting these cunts?


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## Thunderfist (Mar 4, 2015)

Not be outnumbered?


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 4, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Not be outnumbered?



I'm not totally clued up with past events, but Rotherham 2013, fash & plod were outnumbered, & fash didn't get to go where they wanted?


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## Thunderfist (Mar 4, 2015)

I was talking about last year in the wake of the publicity surrounding the grooming scandal - about a 1000 fash of varying stripes and no opposition. Also Oldham three (?) weeks ago - North West Infidels were virtually unopposed. I might be wrong but I can't see any public call-outs to confron the EDL in Manchester this Saturday or the South East Alliance in Rotherham on the same day.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 4, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Mixed feelings about this - from soundings taken Brighton was going to get ready for them. Now they've swerved that and will be heading to towns where they are more likely to have successful demos. Anti-fascism is in a bit of a piss-poor state right now - the UAF has virtually folded and groups like the AFN aren't filling that vacuum. Online mockers like SLATEDL give people the impression that the EDL have collapsed when they haven't and often make us look like a bunch of snobs into the bargain.



There are some big issues with AFN which are stopping it from doing what it set out too.

1) It's got no basis in the working class (even predomantily middle class organisations like UAF at least had support from blue collar unions like the RMT) and it is dominated by students. From a few experiences on demos and the 'antifa' types I know, AFN activists tend to be middle class anarcho-fantasist crusties who have no connection to working class concerns or aims. And sadly this association puts people who don't fit that label off joining - only putting on punk gigs as fundraisers doesn't help! I'm into a bit of punk myself but the sound and attitude of today is house / garage / DnB and the scene around this is massively diverse. Bar maybe 'rave against racism' which seems to attract old skool ravers (i.e. those around in the nineties...) this new current of British subculture with the same inherently anti-authoritarian nature of punk is being ignored when it has the opportunity to draw so many youngsters into our ranks.

2) Another issue is the constant black block tactics. AFN has taken what should be an employable tactic - masking up and wearing black - and turned it into a fashion statement! The arrests after the fight outside that bar at March for England show that  black bloc doesn't even make you that anonymous, and it clearly doesn't make you inconspicuous to the plod or the filth... How can you expect to get close enough to do some serious damage or even snatch a banner or wreck a PA when you can be spotted a mile off? It's ineffective and dogmatic and again its part of that whole anarcho-crusty culture which is just the opposite of working class sensibility and style. Sounds bitchy but it honestly puts regular lads who dress like casuals or whatever off.

3) AFN isn't just isn't that good on the pavement. This reflects the calibre of activists that are drawn into its orbit. They are either incapable or unwilling of actually taking on the fash physically when it comes down to it. There's a video (titled something like 'march for england antifascists streetfight brighton') of an antifa with this giant backpack on and their hands up during the fight outside that pub in Brighton at MFE as if they're begging 'don't hurt me!' why on earth was this gimp on the frontline? sure enough they are thrown to the floor in the video and scuttle off. It's embarrassing. And that antifa was very lucky not to be seriously hurt.

4) AFN has fallen into the trap of banner waving counter-demos all dressed nicely in black bloc which do nothing, whilst the fash are unopposed physically.

5) Ideologically AFN seems committed to intersectionality to a point which marginalises a class narrative (i.e. fascism, nationalism, etc. is inherently anti-working class) which is exactly what is needed to start drawing the white working class - who the far right target and mostly consist off - back into the orbit of the left more generally. I stopped going on AFN callouts after one 'antifa' called me out for calling an NWI'er a cunt because it was sexist! I'd be happy to debate words and sexism over a pint or something, but not when you are about to go toe to toe with someone who wants to cave your head in. The dogmatic commitment to intersectionality and horizontal organising etc. translates into being ineffective on the street. Group dynamics are a funny thing and without an organiser calling the shots and directing a group on the streets the group just runs around and more often then not runs away. And If you need to use a gendered swearword to prepare yourself to get involved then so be it.


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## butchersapron (Mar 4, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> There are some big issues with AFN which are stopping it from doing what it set out too.
> 
> 1) It's got no basis in the working class (even predomantily middle class organisations like UAF at least had support from blue collar unions like the RMT) and it is dominated by students. From a few experiences on demos and the 'antifa' types I know, AFN activists tend to be middle class anarcho-fantasist crusties who have no connection to working class concerns or aims. And sadly this association puts people who don't fit that label off joining - only putting on punk gigs as fundraisers doesn't help! I'm into a bit of punk myself but the sound and attitude of today is house / garage / DnB and the scene around this is massively diverse. Bar maybe 'rave against racism' which seems to attract old skool ravers (i.e. those around in the nineties...) this new current of British subculture with the same inherently anti-authoritarian nature of punk is being ignored when it has the opportunity to draw so many youngsters into our ranks.
> 
> ...


Nice one Tom . I reckon a new thread is needed for this discussion rather than this one. You up for starting it as a new thread?


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## TomSorrent (Mar 4, 2015)

New to the forum butchers, just joined to air my grievances really! But i'm on board if you reckon it's worthwhile


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## butchersapron (Mar 4, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> New to the forum butchers, just joined to air my grievances really! But i'm on board if you reckon it's worthwhile


I think this thread is just a joke now and it's putting people off talking about their own lives.  I reckon a thread about contemporary anti-fascism and your/our experiences of it would be interesting/useful.


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## butchersapron (Mar 4, 2015)

Shall we start a thread called _contemporary anti-fascism_, have a little blurb about what varieties exists and then post your critique of one? 

I'm doing that tmw no matter what. Sick of this thread and AFA one hoovering up stuff.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 4, 2015)

Sounds good. Still getting to grips with how the site works so probably best if you set it up


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## butchersapron (Mar 4, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> Sounds good. Still getting to grips with how the site works so probably best if you set it up


No worries - will do tmw. If i do it tonight it will disappear.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 5, 2015)

redirect stuff from BTF thread too. its got derailed somewhat


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## juice_terry (Mar 5, 2015)

Spot on analysis TomSorrent


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## Thunderfist (Mar 5, 2015)

TomSorrent - some of your analysis is spot on but I think it applies more to the generic 'antifa' phenomenon than it does the AFN itself. The AFN is only a loose collection of groups in different towns - all of whom wanted to work against the latest wave of ultra-nationalism outside of the remit of the UAF with it's police co-ordinated demos. 
_
There are some big issues with AFN which are stopping it from doing what it set out too.

1) It's got no basis in the working class (even predomantily middle class organisations like UAF at least had support from blue collar unions like the RMT) and it is dominated by students. From a few experiences on demos and the 'antifa' types I know, AFN activists tend to be middle class anarcho-fantasist crusties who have no connection to working class concerns or aims. And sadly this association puts people who don't fit that label off joining - only putting on punk gigs as fundraisers doesn't help! I'm into a bit of punk myself but the sound and attitude of today is house / garage / DnB and the scene around this is massively diverse. Bar maybe 'rave against racism' which seems to attract old skool ravers (i.e. those around in the nineties...) this new current of British subculture with the same inherently anti-authoritarian nature of punk is being ignored when it has the opportunity to draw so many youngsters into our ranks. _

A lot of the AFN activists I've met (I'm based on the South Coast) are working class. We're not all bin-men but we're not all university lecturers either if you know what I mean. I don't know if that gives us a working class basis as such – certainly we've worked with unions and the local trades council when the fash have come to town. We don't live in an era of a united militant working class – if we did then our struggle would be very different. 

A lot of your criticism seems aimed at 'antifa' types. To be honest I despair of a few of them as well. Don't automatically confuse them with the AFN. 

Punk is what it is. I'm not a punk but it is an easily politicised sub-culture. Punk bands offer to play benefit gigs for anti-fascists and are willing to take the risk that their gigs will be attacked – if a house or garage DJ or soundsystem were to make the same offer it's hard to see any anti-fascist group turning them down. 

_2) Another issue is the constant black block tactics. AFN has taken what should be an employable tactic - masking up and wearing black - and turned it into a fashion statement! The arrests after the fight outside that bar at March for England show that black bloc doesn't even make you that anonymous, and it clearly doesn't make you inconspicuous to the plod or the filth... 
_
As a matter of fact Sussex Police were looking for around forty people to arrest for this incident. According to what I've been told this consisted of thirteen EDL and twenty-seven 'antifa'. At the moment there are nine EDL and only two antifa on trial – so masking up does actually help make you anonymous. 

_How can you expect to get close enough to do some serious damage or even snatch a banner or wreck a PA when you can be spotted a mile off? It's ineffective and dogmatic and again its part of that whole anarcho-crusty culture which is just the opposite of working class sensibility and style. Sounds bitchy but it honestly puts regular lads who dress like casuals or whatever off. 
_
I don't know if the “working class” have a unified sensibility or style. Tactically black block can work well – I agree that it is pointlessly fetishised and yes we've had results dressing slightly differently – on one occasion drawing howls of outrage from the opposition that we “weren't real casuals – just commies dressed as casuals”.

_3) AFN isn't just isn't that good on the pavement. This reflects the calibre of activists that are drawn into its orbit. They are either incapable or unwilling of actually taking on the fash physically when it comes down to it. There's a video (titled something like 'march for england antifascists streetfight brighton') of an antifa with this giant backpack on and their hands up during the fight outside that pub in Brighton at MFE as if they're begging 'don't hurt me!' why on earth was this gimp on the frontline? sure enough they are thrown to the floor in the video and scuttle off. It's embarrassing. And that antifa was very lucky not to be seriously hurt._

It's a bit harsh to condemn an entire movement off the back of three minutes of Youtube footage. There are numerous incidences of AFN activists taking on the fash physically and doing pretty well. Needless to say this can't really be gone into. Most of the opposition aren't all that on the pavement either. 
_
4) AFN has fallen into the trap of banner waving counter-demos all dressed nicely in black bloc which do nothing, whilst the fash are unopposed physically. _

Can you point to specific examples of this? – it might be useful.

_5) Ideologically AFN seems committed to intersectionality to a point which marginalises a class narrative (i.e. fascism, nationalism, etc. is inherently anti-working class) which is exactly what is needed to start drawing the white working class - who the far right target and mostly consist off - back into the orbit of the left more generally. I stopped going on AFN callouts after one 'antifa' called me out for calling an NWI'er a cunt because it was sexist! I'd be happy to debate words and sexism over a pint or something, but not when you are about to go toe to toe with someone who wants to cave your head in. The dogmatic commitment to intersectionality and horizontal organising etc. translates into being ineffective on the street. Group dynamics are a funny thing and without an organiser calling the shots and directing a group on the streets the group just runs around and more often then not runs away. And If you need to use a gendered swearword to prepare yourself to get involved then so be it. _

This might be characteristic of where you are in the country (from the fact that it was the NWI you were confronting) but it's not the case down here. We're a right bunch of sweary Marys. 
I think that overall you have confused AFN with the wider 'antifa' phenomenon. There are literally hundreds of Facebook groups calling themselves 'antifa' out there. AFN aren't in contact with even a tiny percentage of them. They issue their own call-outs and often do make tits of themselves. I'm reluctant to criticise anyone for having a go but when what you've learned about how to act on the street comes entirely from immersion in an online subculture of 'avin Youtube footage it's not a surprise that real life can come as a hard slap in the face. This is where the hordes of skinny youngsters in black hoodies who hang around sheepishly when it kicks off and run away shouting “kettle” whenever they see a copper come from – not the AFN.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 5, 2015)

all fair responses. Just posting a few general points and then picking up some specifics:

Just to set the scene I was raised in the west country but a lot of my family live in the north west and I'm now a student in the south east. So I've been an active member of left groups in the west country and been on a handful of anti-fascist callouts in the south west and the north west. To be fair the call outs I've been on may not have been AFN, and you're right that i've mixed up AFN with generic 'antifa'. The NWI "cunt" incident was in oldham at their recent outing curtesy of some skinny lad in black bloc - looking online now I can't find an AFN callout...

...The problem is that as a fairly peripheral activist that's the honest impression I had of militant antifascism as a whole. Talking to a mate today who's not involved at all (or that bothered to be fair), he had the same idea. AFN and generic 'antifa' groups might be different organisationally, characteristically, etc. but they're perceived to be the same and the judgement i made (rightly or wrongly...) was enough to put me off really committing to the cause. 

1) I get you on this. I'm working class but I've ended up at a fairly reputable uni and will probable be considered middle class on-paper when (/if) I graduate... my point is I don't expect everyone to be the archetypal worker of the good ol' days of the miners and that, but there still seems to be an absence of working class character in a lot of anti-fash groups - they tend to be organised around unis and personally i didn't consider this a natural space for me until i went to uni myself. The stuff going on at clapton and FCUM is positive in this respect.

2) I didn't know the specifics of that until now so I stand corrected on that one. Glad people are safe from prosecutions. Yeah I'll apologise for the generalisation on style as well (I did warn everyone it was a little bitchy...), I was thinking of my 'clobber' loving mates from home while imaging them in black block and something just didn't compute! 

3) see general point about being fairly peripheral or 'objective' if i want to kiss my own arse. For people who haven't been around long enough to have been going on actions for years like myself or for people interested in getting involved this youtube footage is all they see... And Brighton are pretty infamous as a strong AFN branch and MfE has been a big deal in recent years - as someone who has never been involved in Brighton it was just bleak to see. It works both ways though I suppose *cracking* footage of 161 crew butting Bret Vaughan (NWI) in Manchester.

4) I'm thinking of the high profile arrest of the tower hamlets 286. Again just a single instance, but grouping together behind a banner seemed to restrict movement and options on the floor in my opinion - as an observer. I've never been involved in London either (geography gets in the way) but it seems to be another one of the strongest AFN groups. Obviously we've got the benefit of hindsight now and all that, but it seemed a poorly thought plan from my arm chair...

and re. the punk bias LDN antifascists have just put out a flyer for a reggae night that looks pretty decent! Would be down there if it was a little closer.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 6, 2015)

Are you starting a new thread butchers?


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## ddraig (Mar 6, 2015)

you can start it!


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## malatesta32 (Mar 6, 2015)

under which section UK politics or protest demos ???
i did ask lazy llama about this a week or so back (obviously too lazy!!!!)


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## Citizen66 (Mar 6, 2015)

Protest Politics I guess. 

"The current state of uk anti-fascism" title suggestion?


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## malatesta32 (Mar 6, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> There are some big issues with AFN which are stopping it from doing what it set out too.
> 
> 1) I....................And If you need to use a gendered swearword to prepare yourself to get involved then so be it.



hey TS, can you repost this in the new thread so we can expand on these very crucial points, cheers Mal.


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## butchersapron (Mar 6, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Are you starting a new thread butchers?


I was going to when i get a chance. Someone has done one and it's totally not what i'm interested in - in fact it's just a continuation of this shit. I'll try and do one more around what i was after later.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 6, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I was going to when i get a chance. Someone has done one and it's totally not what i'm interested in - in fact it's just a continuation of this shit. I'll try and do one more around what i was after later.


okay, delete that one and put yours up instead. I wasnt sure if anyone was going to do it and what the scope was.


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## butchersapron (Mar 6, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> okay, delete that one and put yours up instead. I wasnt sure if anyone was going to do it and what the scope was.


I can't delete it! I'll do one on the lines i suggested when i get a chance - now ain't it. Anyone else can start a thread on same if they want - your one was just not even close to what i was after.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 6, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I can't delete it! I'll do one on the lines i suggested when i get a chance - now ain't it. Anyone else can start a thread on same if they want - your one was just not even close to what i was after.



How hard is it to make a title and post the thread lol?


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## Limerick Red (Mar 6, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> There are some big issues with AFN which are stopping it from doing what it set out too.
> 
> 1) It's got no basis in the working class (even predomantily middle class organisations like UAF at least had support from blue collar unions like the RMT) and it is dominated by students. From a few experiences on demos and the 'antifa' types I know, AFN activists tend to be middle class anarcho-fantasist crusties who have no connection to working class concerns or aims. And sadly this association puts people who don't fit that label off joining - only putting on punk gigs as fundraisers doesn't help! I'm into a bit of punk myself but the sound and attitude of today is house / garage / DnB and the scene around this is massively diverse. Bar maybe 'rave against racism' which seems to attract old skool ravers (i.e. those around in the nineties...) this new current of British subculture with the same inherently anti-authoritarian nature of punk is being ignored when it has the opportunity to draw so many youngsters into our ranks.
> 
> ...



Like thunderfist said some of this is on point, but some of it misses the mark widely, and I think the AFN suffer a bit from anything that isn't a UAF action gets labelled an AFN action.
Look on the AFN website for a list of affiliated groups.
In regards to your first point of having no basis in the class, the group I would be most aware of are predominantly although not exclusively working class , do have one or two students and Crusties, but equally a few republicans, casuals, most are anarchists but there are some members of communist/ socialist groups, various trade unions etc. The group have run ragga, Dnb and hip hop nights etc, but as punk bands are always willing to do benefits and money is easily made, their worth doing. In regards to working with trade unions , this is something that LAF have done on a few occasions, but in general UAF are essentially the franchised outsourced antifascist arm of the trade unions. LAF have consistently agrued against the "front so broad, that Tories can join" MO of UAF, that anti fascism should be an arm of a movement against capitalism not a end in itself or worse a defender of the status quo.( the "this is a multicultural area and we like it the way it is" mentality, no it's an underfunded area where government cuts often implemented by the Labour Party are having a detrimental effect on people's lives and fueling massive social problems, this is not how we fuckin like it! )

Your second point re black block, it's become a trope really, although at times useful. But I agree with you on this, however your "why is this gimp on the frontline" argument , he was there, where were you? Don't mean this as a personal attack but people form autonomous groups and attend callouts, can't knock em for it.

Point 3 ) completely disagree, to my knowledge an AFN group has never being turned over, that's not to say these other "antifa" groups thunderfist alluded to haven't, but I think there is a genuine problem of not being able to consistently mobilise to decisive victories, due to a lack of numbers. I could list any amount of recent events the fash have been turned over at, away from big demos etc. but that wouldn't be too clever, just so ya know in not givin it the billy big bollix will juxtapose this by saying there's more times numbers have meant intel wasn't acted on.

On point 4 ) and again I'm only speaking for my experience but one of the things the AFN wanted to attempt was being able to mobilise both large counter demos and direct actions to stop marches happening, that would involve blocking roads (where banners come in handy) and allowing participation of people who aren't going to go into a pub and give it "whowanssssum" but are prepared to take part in mass direct action. This has worked in some places (Brighton) , fell flat on its face in others (tower hamlets) , the police are really the biggest factor on a given day.

5) intersectionality, I really haven't see.this to be the case, although it does seem to be a fascination of the unorganised anarcho student hordes I have not heard it being put forward by any AFN people, have you seen that on blogs or facebook pages of AFN affiliated groups? I'm not on Facebook so maybe it goes on on there but never heard it discussed by any
AFN people.

All in all, there is a lot left wanting from the AFN, but for all it's faults there are local groups that you can join and influence, it's is not a front, it can be engaged with. There isn't admittedly a cohesive national strategy, this is badly lacking.
CCTV and on the point policing have made havin it toe to toe even more precarious, and strings of nicking a have at times really put the skids on groups. New tactics have to be brought to the fore, some of them will fall flat , some of them have worked and will work again.


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## butchersapron (Mar 6, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> How hard is it to make a title and post the thread lol?





lol. I'll say again lol. A  grown fucking man saying lol.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 6, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> lol. I'll say again lol. A  grown fucking man saying lol.




That's all it was worth.

_I haven't got the time to formulate the title I promised two days ago, but I'll berate anyone else for getting it wrong._

It would have taken you less time than it took to search youtube. Do you want the discussion or not?


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## butchersapron (Mar 6, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> That's all it was worth.
> 
> _I haven't got the time to formulate the title I promised two days ago, but I'll berate anyone else for getting it wrong._
> 
> It would have taken you less time than it took to search youtube. Do you want the discussion or not?



I wanted to do a thread that was a bit more than a title. That might be your standard of thread but not mine. There are things to discuss so a) getting them right and b) saying them are rather important.

lol


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## Citizen66 (Mar 6, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I wanted to do a thread that was a bit more than a title. That might be your standard of thread but not mine. There are things to discuss so a) getting them right and b) saying them are rather important.
> 
> lol



I wasn't the one making promises. Keep them waiting and the ticket prices go up. 

lol.


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## juice_terry (Mar 6, 2015)

.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 6, 2015)

Limerick Red said:


> Like thunderfist said some of thi
> 
> Out for the night buddy will respond and do the re-post for malatesta first thing tomorrow. Are you replying to my original post or  my response to Thunderfist's response btw?


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## Limerick Red (Mar 6, 2015)

Sorry pal, mostly to yours!


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## Limerick Red (Mar 6, 2015)

Btw wouldn't be seen dead in black block Meself, clobber all the way, which on one occasion of havin it with an edl'er a load of other edl thought the boyo gettin done was a leftie so joined in, another time two lads came up to a group of us to tell us where the reds were, that didn't end too well for them!


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## BigMoaner (Mar 6, 2015)

lol


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## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2015)

Limerick Red said:


> Btw wouldn't be seen dead in black block Meself, clobber all the way, which on one occasion of havin it with an edl'er a load of other edl thought the boyo gettin done was a leftie so joined in, another time two lads came up to a group of us to tell us where the reds were, that didn't end too well for them!


time and a place for black block, other times - as you say - best to blend in.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 6, 2015)

Limerick Red said:


> Sorry pal, mostly to yours!



Just briefly I'm honest that I'm a peripheral character on the scene, been on a few actions in the south west and north west (>10) most of which weren't AFN callouts.  My judgements were coming from being a relative outsider to AFN looking in on it as a potential thing to get involved with. I can see where i've mixed up the AFN with generic antifa and I've let a lot of misconceptions about AFN go because of this...
My original post was what the AFN looks like from the outside to me and people like like me.

I'd like to have a chat with anyone active in the AFN if they want to message me privately. Still keen to get involved although there's no AFN group in my area. 

Will keep my original post up + re-post for Mal32 on the new for the purpose of debate and that.


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## Limerick Red (Mar 6, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> Just briefly I'm honest that I'm a peripheral character on the scene, been on a few actions in the south west and north west (>10) most of which weren't AFN callouts.  My judgements were coming from being a relative outsider to AFN looking in on it as a potential thing to get involved with. I can see where i've mixed up the AFN with generic antifa and I've let a lot of misconceptions about AFN go because of this...
> My original post was what the AFN looks like from the outside to me and people like like me.


Regardless some very valid observations / criticisms of the state of antifacsism at the moment!


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## Thunderfist (Mar 7, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I wanted to do a thread that was a bit more than a title. That might be your standard of thread but not mine. There are things to discuss so a) getting them right and b) saying them are rather important.
> 
> lol


 It wouldn't be that a perfectly good chance to denounce the world as a bunch of middle class wankers has degenerated into a reasonable and potentially useful conversation has made you take your ball home would it butchers?


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## starfish (Mar 7, 2015)

An earlier post reminded me of the EDL/ENA march in Brighton in 2010. For some reason they started chanting "Are you Celtic in disguise" at us assorted antis at the station. Funnily enough i was standing with 3 other Celtic supporters when they did it.


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## malatesta32 (Mar 8, 2015)

few hundred EDL in manchester, about equal or a bit more for antfascists. SEA lot turned back from rotherham by SY plod as well as a few other vehicles.


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## The39thStep (Mar 8, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> It wouldn't be that a perfectly good chance to denounce the world as a bunch of middle class wankers has degenerated into a reasonable and potentially useful conversation has made you take your ball home would it butchers?



Bit of a strange comment when butchers and others have made reasonable and potentially useful contributions to which way forward for anti fascists especially at the height of the BNPs threat.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 9, 2015)

Limerick Red said:


> Regardless some very valid observations / criticisms of the state of antifacsism at the moment!



The only bit i want to reply to in more detail is the bit about the antifa who bottled it at MfE. I'm not a fantasist wishing every action was the battle of waterloo and I'm definitely not the kind of nut who'd take anyone one whatever the circumstances. I wasn't even at MfE last year. Perhaps i was a little harsh on the activist i pointed out and name calling is out of order so I apologise for that. But we've all got to be honest about our willingness and ability to take people on physically and that activist clearly wasn't willing. They put themselves in danger out of naivety rather than bravery, so I don't think it's right to applaud them just for being there. In my opinion they contradicted our M.O. and damaged our cause by being there. Fighting is a nasty business - the idea is to smash or to intimidate the opposition into having second thoughts. All that activist did by being in the thick of it when they clearly weren't up for it was provide an easy, visible and documentable little victory for the fash - gave them an ego boost rather than the slapping down and humiliation needed. Pride and 'standing your ground' in the green street sense is clearly a load of bollocks at the end of the day, but it's how the fash idealise themselves and we've got to take that away from them.

Re. CCTV and more clued up policing, the combination of smart phones and youtube make this situation even harder to work around. We can keep attempting to counteract this by masking up, using black bloc, etc. or we can circumvent it by working clandestine as well. Street work shouldn't just mean opposing protests or opponents on the way to or from protests.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 9, 2015)

gave them an ego boost rather than the slapping down and humiliation needed. 

Obviously in the larger scheme of things this doesn't matter because Brighton has given the MfE the boot, I'm just explaining where I was coming from


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 9, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> Perhaps i was a little harsh on the activist i pointed out and name calling is out of order so I apologise for that. But we've all got to be honest about our willingness and ability to take people on physically and that activist clearly wasn't willing. They put themselves in danger out of naivety rather than bravery, so I don't think it's right to applaud them just for being there. In my opinion they contradicted our M.O. and damaged our cause by being there. Fighting is a nasty business - the idea is to smash or to intimidate the opposition into having second thoughts. All that activist did by being in the thick of it when they clearly weren't up for it was provide an easy, visible and documentable little victory for the fash - gave them an ego boost rather than the slapping down and humiliation needed. Pride and 'standing your ground' in the green street sense is clearly a load of bollocks at the end of the day, but it's how the fash idealise themselves and we've got to take that away from them.



I think your original comment was OK, certainly a good point to start a discussion. I finally watched the "angry white and proud" documentary about some EDL hangers on the other night and there was a similar scene in that of some black clad skinny guys getting floored outside a pub in London on the same day as some anti-racist conference.

I'd also like to add that I am pretty shit at fighting myself but went along to the Hyde Park/Blood and Honour confrontation whenever that was (89?). Mainly because I was pissed off with Nazis organising near my college. It was pretty scary, but I thought I was up for it. I realised the error of my ways when I froze up completely when two boneheads came running towards me. Luckily they were taken out by some heroic types and I quickly realised that I was essentially there to make up the numbers - and that staying out of the way was the safest option for me and for the more forthright people who were doing the necessary.

It became clear to me that I didn't really have the skills necessary for the situation. Perhaps I could have developed them, but I certainly didn't want to be one of those people who talks the talk but then flees on the heels and lets people down.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 9, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I think your original comment was OK, certainly a good point to start a discussion. I finally watched the "angry white and proud" documentary about some EDL hangers on the other night and there was a similar scene in that of some black clad skinny guys getting floored outside a pub in London on the same day as some anti-racist conference.
> 
> I'd also like to add that I am pretty shit at fighting myself but went along to the Hyde Park/Blood and Honour confrontation whenever that was (89?). Mainly because I was pissed off with Nazis organising near my college. It was pretty scary, but I thought I was up for it. I realised the error of my ways when I froze up completely when two boneheads came running towards me. Luckily they were taken out by some heroic types and I quickly realised that I was essentially there to make up the numbers - and that staying out of the way was the safest option for me and for the more forthright people who were doing the necessary.
> 
> It became clear to me that I didn't really have the skills necessary for the situation. Perhaps I could have developed them, but I certainly didn't want to be one of those people who talks the talk but then flees on the heels and lets people down.



I remember the first 'real' fight I ever had. I was 14/15 minding my own on my paper round and these 2 older lads drove straight at me on a moped. I was on my pedal bike and shitting it to be honest but something snapped and I thought I'm not moving for these bullies. They circled round and a game of chicken ensued. The next thing I know I'm sideways in a bush taking a shoeing. At this point I'm really freaking out and just begging them to stop. One of the lads backs off and pulls his mate off me who is just cursing and cursing at me. Anyway I get to my feet and just think fuck this again and I started trying to give some verbal back ("you think you're so hard..." etc.) but theres so much blood in my mouth I just can't get my words out. The driver lurches towards me and I just gob all of the blood building up right in his face before legging it - leaving my bike, my bag and a tooth behind.

Anyway I get home and when the initial sympathy for me/anger at the kids wears off my dad's response is to show me how to make a millwall brick and offer to pay for martial arts classes. My older did the round for a week or two (while claiming that he and his mates were gonna get the bastards and all that) before i was confident enough to start doing it again. Anyway these lads were still about and still gave me a bit a verbal when I saw them. I knew I could never beat two of them physically but they were really starting to get to me, so when the opportunity arose I slammed a paper brick right through the front light of this parked up moped before legging it.

Looking back I learnt a lot from the whole experience:
Bullies (and fascists alike) should always be stood up to, BUT:
Freezing up is a lot more common than the typical 'fight or flight' response
Pick your fights unless there really isn't an option
Being tooled up is a great equaliser
Attacking property is a tactic
Taking up a martial art is a good idea - even for the detecting/avoiding trouble when it's not necessary ethos.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 9, 2015)

I think you are being harsh on the 'gimp'. As I said before you can't make a judgment on three minutes of footage. So they put their hands up - in some circumstances this can be exactly the right thing to do - some self defence courses  even teach it as 'the fence'. They got knocked down and just like the song says - they got back up again. They were there - you were not. Fair play I say. 

" In my opinion they contradicted our M.O. and damaged our cause by being there. Fighting is a nasty business - the idea is to smash or to intimidate the opposition into having second thoughts."  - nice idea, but it doesn't always pan out that way. What is our M.O by the way? 

The squaddist stuff you are talking about - well sometimes it works  and sometimes it doesn't. AFA were a brilliantly successful organisation - in a specific time and place. Most of their work was done against a far-right that was organising in a very traditional way - paper sales, doorknocking, meetings in pubs etc. That gave an opportunity for a well organised group to turn up, outnumber the fash three to one, hurt them and then leave. 

What you're talking about now are groups that organise online and can muster hundreds to take over a town centre without the need to have public meetings. These groups are not particularly vulnerable to squaddist tactics. So what if twenty of your mates leap out of a pub and twat half a dozen EDL - how is that going to impact on their future political development? Mass opposition with a physical component and a refusal to organise with the authorities has been the AFN remedy so far - and when it's worked, it's worked well. AFN ers have also travelled to steward (not officially) other more mainstream demos in towns where the fash are likely to outnumber the fluffy counter-demo - so as to be able to defend it when necessary.

Think about the "Battle of Waterloo" - the jewel in AFA's crown. I didn't go but mates of mine did and they were very much as Fozzie Bear says - "there to make up the numbers". That was because in an effort to stop 500 skinheads from attending a gig AFA had to call on everyone who could make it. 500 is actually a pretty average demo size for the EDL - so we're only trying to do the same thing.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 10, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I think you are being harsh on the 'gimp'. As I said before you can't make a judgment on three minutes of footage. So they put their hands up - in some circumstances this can be exactly the right thing to do - some self defence courses  even teach it as 'the fence'. They got knocked down and just like the song says - they got back up again. They were there - you were not. Fair play I say.
> 
> " In my opinion they contradicted our M.O. and damaged our cause by being there. Fighting is a nasty business - the idea is to smash or to intimidate the opposition into having second thoughts."  - nice idea, but it doesn't always pan out that way. What is our M.O by the way?
> 
> ...



I've already apologised for the name calling. Totally out of order. I hold my hands up.

Talking of holding hands up, you're right - but there's a difference between a guard and a don't hurt me. I made a judgement on 3 mins of video footage because it's all I see of actions I'm not on and it's all that potential recruits see whatsoever. The whole video is _legitimising_ propaganda for the fash - 'violent commies attacked us brave patriots for loving our country but they're not so brave on their own and we fought them off'.

The M.O. is ideologically and (where necessary) physically confronting fascism, which we probably all agree on - ex-AFA, AFN, 'antifa', whatever.

Re. Squadism: Far right groups still have leaders and visible characters who do a lot of leg work organising PAs, speakers, police liaison, stewarding, transport. We all know who the big twat/head steward with 'EDL' on the back of his head is for example. If they're not there then the organisation crumbles. With other groups, aside from their sensationalised Facebook presence, Britain First in particular do the traditional leafleting malarky (and a bit of poppy scamming on the side). When they mobilised 2-3 activists in a lot of places to 'protect' poppy sellers it turned a lot of heads their way in my community.

Mass opposition is patchy. Newcastle recently was brilliant for anti-fascism as a whole (N.E. AFN mobilised a mass of about 25/2000 marchers...) but there was no mass opposition to the far right bonanza in Rotherham, which is where right wing politics are  currently centred and where the white working class happen to be really pissed off and most susceptible to fascist influence. If you want to talk about wider political aims rather than just generic opposition AFN should probably start here. "How is that going to impact on their future political development?" - Time will tell but it won't be pretty.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 10, 2015)

Re. far right organisation online: 

It's really interesting. The fash have been targeted online in ways that resemble mass opposition, such as explicit counter sites or piss taking pages (I'm thinking of 'Britain Furst' rather than OTAN here), and ways that resemble "squadism', hacking FB pages, events and external websites to make online organising precarious BUT neither tactic seems to have any relationship with the support the far right receive online or their ability to pull numbers in real life.

I'm no Luddite (I work part time in IT...), but it indicates that the internet isn't as big of a factor as is often assumed.

On a side note I recommend all anti-fascists clue up on digital security. Use TOR, a VPN and change hard disks (destroying the old ones) regularly. This isn't tinfoil hat stuff, it's the digital equivalent of masking up on a demo.


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## cantsin (Mar 10, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> It wouldn't be that a perfectly good chance to denounce the world as a bunch of middle class wankers has degenerated into a reasonable and potentially useful conversation has made you take your ball home would it butchers?



wld be interested to see a post from Butchers where he "denounce(s) the world as a bunch of middle class wankers" , literally or other wise, maybe I missed them ?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> Re. far right organisation online:
> 
> It's really interesting. The fash have been targeted online in ways that resemble mass opposition, such as explicit counter sites or piss taking pages (I'm thinking of 'Britain Furst' rather than OTAN here), and ways that resemble "squadism', hacking FB pages, events and external websites to make online organising precarious BUT neither tactic seems to have any relationship with the support the far right receive online or their ability to pull numbers in real life.



Attacking them for their supposed appalling literacy is frowned upon on here, hopefully for obvious reasons.


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## seventh bullet (Mar 10, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> Re. far right organisation online:
> 
> It's really interesting. The fash have been targeted online in ways that resemble mass opposition, such as explicit counter sites or piss taking pages (I'm thinking of 'Britain Furst' rather than OTAN here), and ways that resemble "squadism', hacking FB pages, events and external websites to make online organising precarious BUT neither tactic seems to have any relationship with the support the far right receive online or their ability to pull numbers in real life.
> 
> ...



Then people who for whatever reason didn't get the educational support they needed at school or can't access it in adulthood, who can't afford to visit the dentist, who work particular kinds of jobs or can't find a job at all, or dress in a particular way because it's quite fucking smart actually are thinking about finding answers to the problems they face, political answers. Then they see that shit and think the 'left' is for 'middle class wankers,' mocking them, their families, their friends, their homes, their _class_ experience and not taking any interest in the serious problems they face.  People then won't touch anything it organises around with a barge-pole, lost, gone...  I don't and I dress like a cunt and take good care of my teeth (coffee and cigarettes aside).  Meanwhile the fascists...


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## TomSorrent (Mar 10, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Attacking them for their supposed appalling literacy is frowned upon on here, hopefully for obvious reasons.


I'm dyslexic. I wasn't endorsing those pages at all.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 10, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Attacking them for their supposed appalling literacy is frowned upon on here, hopefully for obvious reasons.


pointed out britain furst above Otan not because it's less snobbish but because it has a following of over 100k whereas OTAN managed about 100.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> I'm dyslexic. I wasn't endorsing those pages at all.



Yeah I know you weren't hence you not having a mob camping on your lawn, hypothetically speaking. They betray an anti working class position. They're the anti left masquerading as being it.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 10, 2015)

seventh bullet said:


> Then people who for whatever reason didn't get the educational support they needed at school or can't access it in adulthood, who can't afford to visit the dentist, who work particular kinds of jobs or can't find a job at all, or dress in a particular way because it's quite fucking smart actually are thinking about finding answers to the problems they face, political answers. Then they see that shit and think the 'left' is for 'middle class wankers,' mocking them, their families, their friends, their homes, their _class_ experience and not taking any interest in the serious problems they face.  People then won't touch anything it organises around with a barge-pole, lost, gone...  I don't and I dress like a cunt and take good care of my teeth (coffee and cigarettes aside).  Meanwhile the fascists...



for all my criticisms of the nature of anti-fascism today i realise that it's essentially reactive. Fascism and anti-fascism only exists because the left has failed my class in the first place


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## TomSorrent (Mar 10, 2015)

[QUOTE. They're the anti left masquerading as being it.[/QUOTE]

That applies to just about every left wing organisation i can think of. Apart from Class War I suppose. 

Unfortunately if my communities anything to go by working class people don't by into all the imagery of destruction ("we're not in the least afraid of rubble" is a favourite of CW), we want to be seen to fight for dignity not chaos. Kinda relates to the stereotype of an anarchist, but CW seem to live up to it in how they present themselves. Still they've got my vote. Hate the rich and the cash more than I hate the problems with left.


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## butchersapron (Mar 10, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> It wouldn't be that a perfectly good chance to denounce the world as a bunch of middle class wankers has degenerated into a reasonable and potentially useful conversation has made you take your ball home would it butchers?


Why you always on about class? Why is it so important to you? So central?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2015)

I don't agree with a lot of CW in terms of how they present themselves either really. Most people probably just think "eh?" as they glide readily into the stereotype. Anarchism in general suffers from it. I like their analysis though, The Heavy Stuff.


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## butchersapron (Mar 10, 2015)

cantsin said:


> wld be interested to see a post from Butchers where he "denounce(s) the world as a bunch of middle class wankers" , literally or other wise, maybe I missed them ?


Me too. That's exactly the sort of crude reduction of what i have ever said on here and criticisms of what the proper official anti-fascists (ownership currently in brighton apparently) that have made this thread a joke. 

Do you like fascism? Are you an anti-fascist? Do you want to join our secret anti-fascist gang? We hate fascists. Here's some vids of them being nasty.


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## butchersapron (Mar 10, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> It wouldn't be that a perfectly good chance to denounce the world as a bunch of middle class wankers has degenerated into a reasonable and potentially useful conversation has made you take your ball home would it butchers?


This is exactly why i didn't think it would be worth the candle btw


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## Thunderfist (Mar 10, 2015)

It was the glee with which you pounced on TomSorrent's anti-AFN post and announced that you'd start another thread straight away because it was so important. The primary characterisation of AFN in that post was "middle class anarcho-fantasist crusties". Tom seems to have reconsidered - and then you disappeared and no thread was forthcoming (well one was but it wasn't good enough for you).

Then you write something completely bizarre like this "Do you like fascism? Are you an anti-fascist? Do you want to join our secret anti-fascist gang? We hate fascists. Here's some vids of them being nasty." What the fuck is that supposed to mean? - it's just an inept piece of straw man building. What is a 'proper official anti fascist' btw?

What are the answers then Butchers? Enlighten us please.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 10, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> I've already apologised for the name calling. Totally out of order. I hold my hands up.
> 
> Talking of holding hands up, you're right - but there's a difference between a guard and a don't hurt me. I made a judgement on 3 mins of video footage because it's all I see of actions I'm not on and it's all that potential recruits see whatsoever. The whole video is _legitimising_ propaganda for the fash - 'violent commies attacked us brave patriots for loving our country but they're not so brave on their own and we fought them off'.
> 
> ...


 
You should get organising....


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2015)

Butchers' analysis is usually on the money. I know I ribbed him a bit for not starting the thread but maybe he can't be arsed because he feels he'll be wasting his time?


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## Thunderfist (Mar 10, 2015)

If he hasn't got anything constructive to offer - then yes he probably is wasting his time.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> If he hasn't got anything constructive to offer - then yes he probably is wasting his time.



Are you here trolling or something? You seem to be settling in quite comfortably as a new comer with <100 posts.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 10, 2015)

Aaah put me in my place there. How many posts should I make before offering an opinion?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Aaah put me in my place there. How many posts should I make before offering an opinion?



Who said you can't 'offer' an opinion?


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## Thunderfist (Mar 10, 2015)

The suggestion that I'm trolling - because I have less than 100 posts. This is completely de-railing the point of this anyway. This could be a useful discussion - how we mobilise against the far-right is an important issue.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 10, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> The suggestion that I'm trolling - because I have less than 100 posts. This is completely de-railing the point of this anyway. This could be a useful discussion - how we mobilise against the far-right is an important issue.



Cool. The floor is yours. What are your ideas?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 10, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> If he hasn't got anything constructive to offer - then yes he probably is wasting his time.



Butchers and others on here have made loads of constructive contributions over the years on a pro working class perspective on anti fascism


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## Thunderfist (Mar 11, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Butchers and others on here have made loads of constructive contributions over the years on a pro working class perspective on anti fascism


 The trouble is that as a newcomer I've only encountered him as a sneery, negative presence. As for a "pro-working class perspective" why is he accusing me of being obsessed with class?


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## Thunderfist (Mar 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Cool. The floor is yours. What are your ideas?



That the development of a far-right street presence in the UK in the last six years  is worrying. It is part of a Europe-wide phenomenon, the rise in ethno-nationalist ideas. That it not only represents the failure of left politics in certain spheres but will also impact directly on the ability of the left to organise. 

 Anti-fascism is fire-fighting, it can only be reactive, it cannot replace other forms of struggle but it has to defend them.

That if we put our minds (and bodies) to it we could put the far-right back in the box.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 11, 2015)

Why does anti fascism have to be reactive? Sure a community response to fascist activity in their area is important but those links have to be forged and work needs to be done in those communities. Having a day out with balaclavas on doesn't achieve anything much and neither would having a punch up presently.


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## ddraig (Mar 11, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> The trouble is that as a newcomer I've only encountered him as a sneery, negative presence. As for a "pro-working class perspective" why is he accusing me of being obsessed with class?


start reading his posts properly, over and over if you have too
not saying you're thick btw


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## TomSorrent (Mar 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Why does anti fascism have to be reactive? Sure a community response to fascist activity in their area is important but those links have to be forged and work needs to be done in those communities. Having a day out with balaclavas on doesn't achieve anything much and neither would having a punch up presently.



I would say it has to be reactive in the sense that we're all against fascism rather than specifically pro- anything, hence why broad front groups (rebuplicans/irish patriots, commies, anarchos in the same room) can function. Also reactive in the sense that we are definitely on the back foot at the moment.

It's a bit of paradox really. If a front is too broad/inclusive like UAF having Tory signatures then by definition it looses the radicalism.

'work done in communities' is a little vague buddy. What do you mean by this? I would say that the more community orientated anti fash organisations (UAF/HnH) need to do a lot of work in white working class communities. Although this is probably a bad idea of mine 'cus they have a tendency to patronise the fuck out of honest but misguided concerns people have.

There's no sympathy for the orthodox left and very little breathing room for genuine left wing organisations to grow from working class communities, so i think we need to continue with oppositional anti fascism to try and make space for political progressivism.

'punch ups' aren't always productive although they are necessary in self-defence of a march for example or just for principled opposition - and they do have an effect. For all of my criticism of an antifa's 'unorthodox' fighting style, Brighton has clearly given MfE the boot. Specifically planned direct actions have to be carried out with military precision. Pick your targets, minimise risk:maximise impact.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 11, 2015)

"Work done in communities" means initiatives that reach out to people such as the youth to prevent them being attracted to the far right in the first place, so you don't end up being 'reactive' to them at a later point in time. This is also valid anti fascist work. Some might argue its _more_ important than shouting "Nazi scum, off our streets" which appears to achieve nothing in particular.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> "Work done in communities" means initiatives that reach out to people such as the youth to prevent them being attracted to the far right in the first place, so you don't end up being 'reactive' to them at a later point in time. This is also valid anti fascist work. Some might argue its _more_ important than shouting "Nazi scum, off our streets" which appears to achieve nothing in particular.



Yeah I agree to an extent. Even in community work though we need to be reactive to the ways it's been led astray. Asian only youth projects shouldn't be getting council funding for example when the working class as a whole (regardless of ethnicities) have fuck all youth services. It just stirs up divisions which are actually artificial. Same problem with faith schools - they should be getting no money from the government whatsoever. It's one of the areas where the IWCA is bang on - even though it's been dismissed as 'reactionary' in the right wing sense by the orthodox/trot left.

Community work can remove potential recruits but the hardcore of fascist groups are immune to it. Scum attracts scum and people who are hopelessly racist will always be attracted to these groups no matter how much work we do with youngsters. 

Even after getting into grammar school (history classes = "communism only works in theory") I still turned out a lefty... 

'Nazi scum off our streets' is a pet hate of mine...  won't even go into the problems with that slogan or just shouting slogans in general.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 11, 2015)

Yeah I was more thinking of the EDL - which seems to attract disaffected White working class than proper Nationalist groups with their dedicated life-long fascists.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 11, 2015)

Good community work also builds up associations and relationships with people who live in an area, or just profile.

This makes a crucial difference if there is fascist activity (like a march or demo) - it's the difference between anti-fascists looking like they have parachuted in or are actually people from the local area, who know and care about what goes on there.


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## Wilf (Mar 11, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Good community work also builds up associations and relationships with people who live in an area, or just profile.
> 
> This makes a crucial difference if there is fascist activity (like a march or demo) - it's the difference between anti-fascists looking like they have parachuted in or are actually people from the local area, who know and care about what goes on there.


Spot on.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 11, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Good community work also builds up associations and relationships with people who live in an area, or just profile.
> 
> This makes a crucial difference if there is fascist activity (like a march or demo) - it's the difference between anti-fascists looking like they have parachuted in or are actually people from the local area, who know and care about what goes on there.



It's a criticism we can put forward to people about the EDL as well... people turning up with EDL south wales and gloucestershire division hoodies know fuck all about my community...


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 11, 2015)

TomSorrent said:


> It's a criticism we can put forward to people about the EDL as well... people turning up with EDL south wales and gloucestershire division hoodies know fuck all about my community...



Yes it is, but that criticism is more effective as part of an organised community response. Otherwise you end up with the thorny issue of which side resonates better with people - very difficult in Rochdale where local feeling was outrage about grooming and the EDL were very visibly on the streets in opposition to it.

Mind you there was that great video of a person who will remain nameless shouting at an EDL march through/near Whitechapel telling them all to fuck off back the provinces - so horses for courses.


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## gamerunknown (Mar 11, 2015)

TomSorrent said:
			
		

> history classes = "communism only works in theory"



Got this in comprehensive history too you know - presentation of the IWW "Pyramid of the Capitalist System" diagram with note "isn't this quaint" and then a unidimensional political spectrum which is " a circle - the far left and the far right are not distinguishable from each other" (this persists into University, with "liberalism" and "Conservatism" being the sole descriptors of a political spectrum which has at least two axes). Pretty much none of my contemporaries regarded themselves as working class, despite some of the more honest teachers saying the majority of us would be wage labourers when we finished education.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 11, 2015)

gamerunknown said:


> Got this in comprehensive history too you know - presentation of the IWW "Pyramid of the Capitalist System" diagram with note "isn't this quaint" and then a unidimensional political spectrum which is " a circle - the far left and the far right are not distinguishable from each other" (this persists into University, with "liberalism" and "Conservatism" being the sole descriptors of a political spectrum which has at least two axes). Pretty much none of my contemporaries regarded themselves as working class, despite some of the more honest teachers saying the majority of us would be wage labourers when we finished education.



ah yeah I remember that fucker. It was called the "communism-fascism horseshoe" at my school and the teacher used to say that an upside down horseshoe is always bad luck...

I'm at uni atm and experiencing much the same. To me everyone's economics are essentially neoliberal and people only really have an opinion on social issues. The labour club don't even mention class symbolically it's all socially liberal causes like 'cisgender privilege awareness' and 'how to be an ally'- valid and interesting things but just an element of the wider struggle, not least because *apparently* as a cisgender person I can never have empathy with a transperson...

Luckily my politics were made outside of history classes during the series of utterly shite jobs I had to do before I went to uni. Not exactly the hay day of industrial organising, but being paid minimum wage to do the work of two people whilst I made thousands for the company and my boss took home 40k a year for sitting on his arse was enough for me to realise what goes on


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## Citizen66 (Mar 11, 2015)

The scourge of identity politics. It boils my piss that someone apparently has 'privilege' for being a white heterosexual male regardless of whether he tosses burgers on minimum wage or not and is being denounced from the comfort of university halls.

I can see what led to this though and it's a failure of the left in general to not get these people involved in class politics and it probably is white males to blame.


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## TomSorrent (Mar 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> The scourge of identity politics. It boils my piss that someone apparently has 'privilege' for being a white heterosexual male regardless of whether he tosses burgers on minimum wage or not and is being denounced from the comfort of university halls.
> 
> I can see what led to this though and it's a failure of the left in general to not get these people involved in class politics and it probably is white males to blame.



I totally agree. I'm on my uni's S.U. as an equalities officer and I've been called a racist, a homophobe, you name it, just for pointing out a) the economic struggle is the main thing facing students and society in general, b) the economic struggle brings people together rather than playing up artificial differences, and c) a gay black kid who goes to Eton has infinitely more life chances than a working class white kid 

Funny really, a lot of my critics quietened down considerably when I pointed out my ethnic background! (it Isn't obvious)


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## Citizen66 (Mar 11, 2015)

If people do want to do physical force anti fascism against the likes of the EDL it isn't difficult. Plant an insider or simply watch where they go on the piss after the event and then simply pick them off. This doesn't seem to have happened though so the black balaclava shit is self indulgent theatre as far as I can tell.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 11, 2015)

I'm never sure why community activism and physical anti-fascism are consistently presented as opposites. Obviously a lot of people involved in AFN are involved in other struggles - there's a big overlap with SolFed for example. If I go on a workplace picket with SolFed am I being an anti-fascist? In a sense perhaps but that's not my primary focus at the time.

Community politics has the problem of being very nebulous - what is my community exactly, my city, my estate, my street? There are some good examples of where people have dug their heels in and achieved community mobilisation but they're few and far between - do we let the fash stomp all over the other places because they haven't had lefty community organisers beavering away for the last twenty years?


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## Thunderfist (Mar 11, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> If people do want to do physical force anti fascism against the likes of the EDL it isn't difficult. Plant an insider or simply watch where they go on the piss after the event and then simply pick them off. This doesn't seem to have happened though so the black balaclava shit is self indulgent theatre as far as I can tell.


 Sorry mate but this is laughable. "simply pick them off" - brilliant, I wish I'd thought of that.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 11, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Sorry mate but this is laughable. "simply pick them off" - brilliant, I wish I'd thought of that.



I bet you would. You're about as close to physical force antifascism as doctors are to finding a cure for cancer, despite your posturing.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 11, 2015)

What posturing?


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## Thunderfist (Mar 11, 2015)

http://www.cancerprogress.net/timeline/major-milestones-against-cancer


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## Citizen66 (Mar 11, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> What posturing?



Fair enough. I called wrong there maybe.


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## Nigel (Mar 11, 2015)

Sorry to butt in, but is the March For England demonstration that has been moved from Brighton to Oxford been cancelled?
Apparently organisers (presumably EDL) were talking to police today.

Although the demo is advertised for the 4th April 2015. Is this a sad attempt of a cunning ploy on their part!


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## gamerunknown (Mar 11, 2015)

Might want to break that link so they don't get referrals... Thanks for the update though.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 12, 2015)

Still very much on according to the EDLs Facebook.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 13, 2015)

Why do North London Antifa want me to email parliamentary candidates about Palestine?


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## Maharani (Mar 14, 2015)

Maybe a silly question but do people think it safe to take young children on anti-fascist demos? I know the antis would be peaceful but the fascists and police unpredictable...

My child is a very grown up 8 and I really want to expose her to demos from now...


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## ddraig (Mar 14, 2015)

it really depends on the demo imo
some places have events on the same day that are family friendly


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## Maharani (Mar 14, 2015)

ddraig said:


> it really depends on the demo imo
> some places have events on the same day that are family friendly


Namely the UAF March on next Saturday, 21st.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Namely the UAF March on next Saturday, 21st.



I don't think I'd start with an anti-fascist march. Anti-cuts stuff etc probably a more pleasant introduction to protests for kids?


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## Maharani (Mar 14, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I don't think I'd start with an anti-fascist march. Anti-cuts stuff etc probably a more pleasant introduction to protests for kids?


I'll have a think. Ta


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## gamerunknown (Mar 14, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Namely the UAF March on next Saturday, 21st.



Can't think of anything related to antifascism that'd be safer. The only thing is you'll need to do inoculation - explaining why Lutfur Rahman isn't very pleasant (thanking police after they'd kettled 286 antifascists), why one should be wary of Gerry Gable (co-operation with state, see Notes from Borderland) and it may be difficult to explain to an eight year old Martin Smith's role in the UAF haemorrhaging members. Police were hardly visible, no fascists last year - someone even walked through the crowd with a giant Union Jack and the Daily Mail had a stall, with no ire from marchers.


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## Nigel (Mar 20, 2015)

With regards to Oxford Red White & Blue. EDL/Fringe Far Right Demo in Oxford; April
This could end up being a major victory for fringe/far right.
UAF apparently are having meeting point in Bond Square; miles from where EDL have routed their march. There seems to be little consideration of defence of mosque etc in Cowley East Oxford.
Is thereany chance of mobilisation to oppose far right for this mobilisation by EDL.
There is limited support amongst elements within Oxford, not necessarily from usual quarters, especially around child abuse/pimping of girls/young women and authorities turning a blind eye to the situation.

AFN have published statement on Facebook !
https://www.facebook.com/events/1618170855087109/


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## Weller (Mar 22, 2015)

*Tory election candidate suspended over alleged plot to stage fake demonstration outside mosque with former EDL leader *




> A Conservative election candidate was suspended tonight after being accused of trying to choreograph a fake demonstration outside a mosque with the help of former English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/tory-election-candidate-suspended-over-alleged-plot-to-stage-fake-demonstration-outside-mosque-with-former-edl-leader-10125388.html


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## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2015)

4 at pegida demo in scotland, 85 in newcastle, biggs and another battered, 9 arrests. a handful of britain first in london and golding got his banner nicked.


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## Wilf (Mar 23, 2015)

Been quite amusing today seeing a couple of posts from fash about other cowardly micro-fash grouplets leaving them to get battered in Newcastle.


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## youngian (Mar 23, 2015)

Weller said:


> *Tory election candidate suspended over alleged plot to stage fake demonstration outside mosque with former EDL leader *
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...e-mosque-with-former-edl-leader-10125388.html


This is like some flimsy scam Arthur Daley would dream up.


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## adidaswoody (Mar 23, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Maybe a silly question but do people think it safe to take young children on anti-fascist demos? I know the antis would be peaceful but the fascists and police unpredictable...
> 
> My child is a very grown up 8 and I really want to expose her to demos from now...


The UAF march that happened by me was family friendly, there were adults there with their children, they had a big music stand with a (although very untalented) live band on


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## Thunderfist (Mar 23, 2015)

Nigel said:


> With regards to Oxford Red White & Blue. EDL/Fringe Far Right Demo in Oxford; April
> This could end up being a major victory for fringe/far right.
> UAF apparently are having meeting point in Bond Square; miles from where EDL have routed their march. There seems to be little consideration of defence of mosque etc in Cowley East Oxford.
> Is thereany chance of mobilisation to oppose far right for this mobilisation by EDL.
> ...



Where have the EDL routed their march?


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## malatesta32 (Mar 23, 2015)

brighton antifash on weekend events
https://brightonantifascists.wordpress.com/2015/03/22/roundup-of-a-crazy-weekend/


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## Nigel (Mar 23, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Where have the EDL routed their march?


It's not known yet!
There was a rumour that their initial meet up would be similar to that of NF march recently.
Don't really want to discuss such topics on Internet.
However UAF are 'rallying' in Bond Square, so its guaranteed to be miles away from there.
East Oxford is a concern; breakaway groups may head up there.


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## Thunderfist (Mar 23, 2015)

At the moment the only info I could find (from the EDL FB) was that they were planing to be in central Oxford.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> brighton antifash on weekend events
> https://brightonantifascists.wordpress.com/2015/03/22/roundup-of-a-crazy-weekend/









smartly done 

i suppose the new britain first slogan is 'pleading for our banner back'


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## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2015)

Weller said:


> *Tory election candidate suspended over alleged plot to stage fake demonstration outside mosque with former EDL leader *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


for me this is the story of the year so far  it's fucking nuts


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## malatesta32 (Mar 23, 2015)

'Malatesta' blog hits 102,163 views


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## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> 'Malatesta' blog hits 102,163 views


has that number any particular significance for you?

e2a: not a prime number - next primes 102 181, 102 191, 102 197


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## Nigel (Mar 27, 2015)

Nigel said:


> It's not known yet!
> There was a rumour that their initial meet up would be similar to that of NF march recently.
> Don't really want to discuss such topics on Internet.
> However UAF are 'rallying' in Bond Square, so its guaranteed to be miles away from there.
> East Oxford is a concern; breakaway groups may head up there.


 Will be having informal meeting this Tuesday in Oxford.
pm me for details


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## Interloper (Mar 27, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Maybe a silly question but do people think it safe to take young children on anti-fascist demos? I know the antis would be peaceful but the fascists and police unpredictable...
> 
> My child is a very grown up 8 and I really want to expose her to demos from now...



LOLZ

how do you know the antis would be peaceful?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 27, 2015)

Interloper said:


> LOLZ
> 
> how do you know the antis would be peaceful?



Perhaps they have UaF in mind?


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## soda057 (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks for all !


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## gamerunknown (Mar 31, 2015)

Britain First attack "Beyond UKIP" meeting. 

It's interesting to note they can mobilise in London. Wonder if they'll be present at Oxford or London this Saturday? 

Also wonder if National Action had a hand in this? Considering the online threats they made to fulfil Bonehill's demo.


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 31, 2015)

gamerunknown said:


> Britain First attack "Beyond UKIP" meeting.
> 
> It's interesting to note they can mobilise in London. Wonder if they'll be present at Oxford or London this Saturday?
> 
> Also wonder if National Action had a hand in this? Considering the online threats they made to fulfil Bonehill's demo.



1. Britain First have mobilised in London before, with their stupid "battle bus" or whatever it is and a "mosque invasion"?

2. No - from the video footage it just looks like pissed up north London teenagers. No links have been drawn in the press I have read about it.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 31, 2015)

gamerunknown said:


> Britain First attack "Beyond UKIP" meeting.
> 
> It's interesting to note they can mobilise in London. Wonder if they'll be present at Oxford or London this Saturday?
> 
> Also wonder if National Action had a hand in this? Considering the online threats they made to fulfil Bonehill's demo.


reminiscent of welling library from the article


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## nino_savatte (Mar 31, 2015)

The 'White Pride' march in Manchester didn't go so well, according to EDL News. Richard Edmonds (remember him?) also put in an appearance.
http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/03/30/not-a-lot-of-pride-about-as-manchester-mocks-fascists/


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## Nigel (Apr 1, 2015)

Someone has messaged me to take down contact details, does anyone know if this is legit.


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## gamerunknown (Apr 1, 2015)

I'd recommend breaking the email, if for no other reason then that website trawlers can use it to send mass spam.


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## krink (Apr 1, 2015)

that BF lot are only any good at hassling liberals. 

having said that, i'd have more sympathy for liberal lefties being bullied by fash if liberal lefties stopped grassing us up to the cops and calling us as 'as bad as the fascists'.


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## TomSorrent (Apr 1, 2015)

.


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 1, 2015)

There's a thread on that already, TomSorrent 
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ic-bhoys-vs-locals-e15-supporters-etc.333607/


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## TomSorrent (Apr 1, 2015)

cheers m


Fozzie Bear said:


> There's a thread on that already, TomSorrent
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ic-bhoys-vs-locals-e15-supporters-etc.333607/


cheers my bad


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## intersol32 (Apr 1, 2015)

krink said:


> that BF lot are only any good at hassling liberals.
> 
> having said that, i'd have more sympathy for liberal lefties being bullied by fash if liberal lefties stopped grassing us up to the cops and calling us as 'as bad as the fascists'.



Just what I was thinking whilst watching the video. It's this idea that you can effectively confront the growth of fascism by dressing up like something from CBeebies.

They'll never seem to grasp the concept that if you want to defend the working class against these reactionary ideas, it'll at least help if you show you're a part of it (rather than apart from it).

The incredulity and general shock/horror "look at these THUGS" type comments that the liberals are sharing along with the video is another reflection of how unprepared and out of tune they are with the nature of fascism.

It always reminds me of the AFA Fighting Talk video where the guy talks about going along on an ANL demo and everyone's pointing at the opposition going "Nazis! Nazis!" and he says it's stupid "the Nazis already know that they're Nazis! What I wanted to do was take a placard, jump over the barrier and bash one over the head with it!!"


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 1, 2015)

intersol32 said:


> They'll never seem to grasp the concept that if you want to defend the working class against these reactionary ideas, it'll at least help if you show you're a part of it (rather than apart from it).



On the other hand, if their role as they see it, is to defend minorities _against reactionary working class ideas_, there is a certain logic in looking and acting as 'alternative' as possible. That their provocations might further alienate ordinary people from the wider cause, rather than be a matter of concern, is probably a matter of pride instead. There was a mention of a recent far-right activity reminding someone of the BNP attack on Welling library. 
The key difference being that it led to double figures ending up in hospital. Needless to say that particular campaign came to an abrupt end. Would 'Beyond Ukip' or whatever they call themselves, respond differently? Hardly. So in the end all your left with is a far-right emboldened and a section of the working class even further alienated: _anti_-anti-fascism.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 1, 2015)

Are breastfeeding Mums not part of the working class then? From my personal knowledge of Dan Glass - he is a bit of a self-aggrandizing wanker but I though the stunt itself was quite legit. How is criticising Farage (City of London, ex-public schoolboy) setting yourself up against 'reactionary working class ideas'?


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## Nigel (Apr 2, 2015)

Someone has asked me to take down contact details for anti edl activity in Oxford.
Does anyone know if this is legit as at the moment we have people regularly handing out leaflets, both from Oxford and from outside town and giving a meet up point.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1618170855087109/


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## intersol32 (Apr 2, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Are breastfeeding Mums not part of the working class then? From my personal knowledge of Dan Glass - he is a bit of a self-aggrandizing wanker but I though the stunt itself was quite legit. How is criticising Farage (City of London, ex-public schoolboy) setting yourself up against 'reactionary working class ideas'?



It's more about the tactics that were being used to confront Farage. If you're defending just one section of it (e.g. breast feeding mums, people of a different sexual orientation etc) that would be fine. But what you have to bear in mind is that UKIP and outright Fascist outfits represent a threat to the working class in its entirety and the response should be proportional and appropriate to that.

If anything what the last 20-25 years has shown is that the 'carnival' type stunts or gimmicks may be appealing to the "identity politics" of the "protest movement" types, but where the larger swathes of the working class are concerned it quite often leaves them unaffected, indifferent or (even worse) alienated from you.


----------



## Thunderfist (Apr 2, 2015)

Stunts and gimmicks have their place - I'm not sure that the working class is quite as dour as you  suggest. One of Nigel's primary appeals has been that, like Boris, he comes across as game for a laugh. A conga line, some fancy dress, shock-horror gay people - are these really totally alienating to the working class people you know? 

If we need a response to a threat 'to the working class in its entirety' then what should it be and how do we go about organising it?


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## intersol32 (Apr 2, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Stunts and gimmicks have their place - I'm not sure that the working class is quite as dour as you  suggest. One of Nigel's primary appeals has been that, like Boris, he comes across as game for a laugh. A conga line, some fancy dress, shock-horror gay people - are these really totally alienating to the working class people you know?
> 
> If we need a response to a threat 'to the working class in its entirety' then what should it be and how do we go about organising it?



I agree that stunts have their place perhaps, but as I mentioned in the comments earlier, it helps if you're also directly engaging the working class from within it. Organising in the community is another concept that seems completely anathema to some in the wider left. Years after the warnings about the right gaining ground due to almost complete abandonment by the mainstream parties, many still launch their campaigns on or around the local student campus or similar.

At my workplace there around 200 employees. It's manual work and approx. half that number are agency staff. A few of the lads have shown an interest in voting for Ukip in the next election. The reasons for this seem to be disillusionment with the usual tory vs labour carry-on and a lack of an alternative, rather than being outright racists. Engaging them in discussions about this (and steering them away from Ukip) have been made far easier by the fact that I'm a fellow worker approaching them on the same level. I definitely wouldn't gain any ground in this instance if instead I set up a paper stall in the town complete with megaphone and a few jugglers.

Hopefully you see what I'm getting at here.

To give you another example, we started our community group in an area of Nottingham which previously never had one. It was a case of throwing ourselves in at the deep end - but what became clear is that the local organised left (as we'll call it) had no interest in dealing realistically with the local community. Instead it was as outsiders who were more willing to dictate to them about 'what their problems were' rather than the other way round.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 2, 2015)

I hear you - but there seems to be an assumption that none of those involved in the stunt would also be representing anti-UKIP views in their workplace. 

Organising in the community or workplace is obviously vital but it doesn't stand in opposition to other forms of activism. A media stunt is precisely the kind of thing that gets people talking in the first place.

As for the stunt I thought in the end the fallout was worse for UKIP. If 'one for the road' Nigel really was the rakish goodtimer  he pretends he  would have laughed the whole thing off - maybe joined in the Conga. Instead he comes across as mean-spirited. Britain First's intervention has actually re-asserted the link between far-right politics and boot-boy tactics, one of the key differences between UKIP and the BNP was that Nick Griffin never managed to sever that link and that put a lot of people off.


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## intersol32 (Apr 3, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Britain First's intervention has actually re-asserted the link between far-right politics and boot-boy tactics



On the other hand it could be presented as another instance where the left have been unable (or unwilling?) to defend themselves against Fascist assaults. Adopting an approach that the ANL used in the 90's which was to present themselves as victims, hoping that this would garner sympathy amongst possible supporters. Although why they thought reports of their meetings getting turned over and people being hospitalised would make people feel safe enough to attend them was beyond me personally.

As again mentioned above in previous comments, this stance also stretched to completely discounting any kind of physical resistance to Fascist organising by strangely claiming that it made people "as bad as the Nazis". Although in this left wing dreamscape it was never understood by them that the only reason the ANL/SWP could march or hold meetings in some of these areas was because the Fascists had been physically beaten off the streets in the first place.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 3, 2015)

I think you're using this to re-fight old arguments - who is suggesting that anyone is 'as bad as the nazis' now. Who apart from Hope Not Hate, perhaps is trying to discourage physical resistance?

Much as I hate to have to admit it - the 90s was a long time ago.


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## The39thStep (Apr 3, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I hear you - but there seems to be an assumption that none of those involved in the stunt would also be representing anti-UKIP views in their workplace.
> 
> Organising in the community or workplace is obviously vital but it doesn't stand in opposition to other forms of activism. A media stunt is precisely the kind of thing that gets people talking in the first place.
> 
> As for the stunt I thought in the end the fallout was worse for UKIP. If 'one for the road' Nigel really was the rakish goodtimer  he pretends he  would have laughed the whole thing off - maybe joined in the Conga. Instead he comes across as mean-spirited. Britain First's intervention has actually re-asserted the link between far-right politics and boot-boy tactics, one of the key differences between UKIP and the BNP was that Nick Griffin never managed to sever that link and that put a lot of people off.



Unfortunately quite a few people I know think that the stunt reinforced their view of the left as telling people that they can't say what they want, that Farage and his family time is a no go area and that the left look like a bunch of middle class hippies.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 3, 2015)

This is going to the problem with any kind of anti-UKIP stuff. Our anti-fascist group has been reluctant to get drawn into anti-UKIP street mobilisation for this reason - you're going to come across as a bunch of censors. On the other hand - the alternative is what?  It's a long time since some people decided to focus on grass-roots community activism at the expense of 'parachuting adventurism', over twenty years in fact - where is the honest appraisal of the results of that process? Obviously if it had worked entirely as intended we wouldn't be looking at a large scale right wing street movement now.


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 3, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> As for the stunt I thought in the end the fallout was worse for UKIP. If 'one for the road' Nigel really was the rakish goodtimer  he pretends he  would have laughed the whole thing off - maybe joined in the Conga. Instead he comes across as mean-spirited. Britain First's intervention has actually re-asserted the link between far-right politics and boot-boy tactics, one of the key differences between UKIP and the BNP was that Nick Griffin never managed to sever that link and that put a lot of people off.



Yeah, and after joining in the Conga, in order to avoid appearing "mean spirited", maybe he could have danced on the roof of his car as someone was already bouncing on the bonnet? 

Things went from bad to worse when a supercilious and uber smug Mr Glass appeared on Radio Five Live the following day. He began by making the identical argument about Farage's supposed sense of humour failure, but then in response to some mild questioning of the the tactic by the interviewer, invoked the Holocaust by way of justification. 

Even when the interviewer expressed astonishment at the parallel being drawn he pressed on. No barometer on public opinion I grant you, but personally, I felt like punching him. How's that for 'putting people off'?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

intersol32 said:


> On the other hand it could be presented as another instance where the left have been unable (or unwilling?) to defend themselves against Fascist assaults. Adopting an approach that the ANL used in the 90's which was to present themselves as victims, hoping that this would garner sympathy amongst possible supporters. Although why they thought reports of their meetings getting turned over and people being hospitalised would make people feel safe enough to attend them was beyond me personally.
> 
> As again mentioned above in previous comments, this stance also stretched to completely discounting any kind of physical resistance to Fascist organising by strangely claiming that it made people "as bad as the Nazis". Although in this left wing dreamscape it was never understood by them that the only reason the ANL/SWP could march or hold meetings in some of these areas was because the Fascists had been physically beaten off the streets in the first place.


the anl only resurrected after a series of fascist attacks on swp paper sales, most of which the swp leadership kept from the membership. if memory serves, searchlight published a very hostile editorial about the return of the anl, saying that no need to establish a competitor to afa or words to that effect.


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## The39thStep (Apr 3, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> This is going to the problem with any kind of anti-UKIP stuff. Our anti-fascist group has been reluctant to get drawn into anti-UKIP street mobilisation for this reason - you're going to come across as a bunch of censors. On the other hand - the alternative is what?  It's a long time since some people decided to focus on grass-roots community activism at the expense of 'parachuting adventurism', over twenty years in fact - where is the honest appraisal of the results of that process? Obviously if it had worked entirely as intended we wouldn't be looking at a large scale right wing street movement now.


There isn't a large scale right wing street movement what there is is a large scale populist right wing polical movement and mood to which 'street' anti fascism no answer or a political alternative.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 3, 2015)

A movement that can put 1000s on the streets is to my mind 'large scale'. It's obviously a symptom of a larger scale populist political movement, because  all street mobilisations, left or right, consist only of a percentage of those with a given opinion.

As I've said before street mobilisation can only be reactive - it cannot supply a political alternative but it is a vital part of anti-fascism. Are you seriously suggesting that when neo-nazis conduct two 'white pride' events in a fortnight (in Manchester and Newcastle) that we should just let them get on with it?

  Where is your political alternative though?


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## intersol32 (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the anl only resurrected after a series of fascist attacks on swp paper sales, most of which the swp leadership kept from the membership. if memory serves, searchlight published a very hostile editorial about the return of the anl, saying that no need to establish a competitor to afa or words to that effect.



I'd definitely agree. Although I recall some of these attacks were highlighted in the manner I spoke of. Their paper sale in Mansfield being turned over by local BNP activists (along with the subsequent court case) and also a meeting in Notts City Centre where their members were assaulted - the latter of which subsequently prompted the organisers to approach us "to help keep an eye on the next meeting" in case the opposition turned up again 



Thunderfist said:


> It's a long time since some people decided to focus on grass-roots community activism at the expense of 'parachuting adventurism', over twenty years in fact - where is the honest appraisal of the results of that process? Obviously if it had worked entirely as intended we wouldn't be looking at a large scale right wing street movement now.



The lessons learned from community activism are worth taking note of indeed. My own personal experience is that it's "the point of the spear" so to speak. It's almost the only time you'll get to engage directly with the working class, other than in the workplace. The problem comes with finding the considerable resources to build the kind of alternative that will provide people with an effective voice. In this respect the tactics are not (and never have been) the stumbling block, it unfortunately comes down to logistics and funding.

Again, purely based on my own experiences, AFA was also a victim of its own success. It cleared a space for a radical political alternative by physically removing the fascists from the streets. But the necessity for us stepping into that role was lost on some who maintained that the only necessity was to carry on a covert war against the Fascists (seemingly for its own sake). They just didn't see how community work complimented the wider picture. The most telling thing for me was sitting down with the local AFA group when these ideas were being floated. I commented that engaging the community may at some point mean standing a candidate in elections, if that's what the community required us to do. One of them piped up "fuck that!" to which I said "Well, what do you want then?" to which he said to murmers of agreement from his mates "I want an Anarchist society!". So in reply I asked "then how do you propose to get there?" which elicited a shrugging of the shoulders and an awkward silence.

That's the long term issue. In the meantime I agree that it's also important to not allow the extreme right to dominate the streets again nor allow the left to become targets for an easy victory.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

intersol32 & the difficulties of having a street strategy against a legal political party (bnp) who have abandoned the street seem to have wooshed past a lot of people


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## The39thStep (Apr 3, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> A movement that can put 1000s on the streets is to my mind 'large scale'. It's obviously a symptom of a larger scale populist political movement, because  all street mobilisations, left or right, consist only of a percentage of those with a given opinion.
> 
> As I've said before street mobilisation can only be reactive - it cannot supply a political alternative but it is a vital part of anti-fascism. Are you seriously suggesting that when neo-nazis conduct two 'white pride' events in a fortnight (in Manchester and Newcastle) that we should just let them get on with it?
> 
> Where is your political alternative though?



I have nothing against mobilising against the Far Right , actually The British First video set me off thinking these boys should be taken down a peg or  two , but if that's all on offer then fine spend the weekend trying to  target the two irrelevant White Pride 'demos' which attracted about 150 over the two events. 
The absence of a political alternative , existing now,happening now, does make it difficult to win people over. It would be great to have one but we don't.


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## intersol32 (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> intersol32 & the difficulties of having a street strategy against a legal political party (bnp) who have abandoned the street seem to have wooshed past a lot of people



Absolutely!


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## Citizen66 (Apr 3, 2015)

There's other budding groups though such as Britain First and National Action.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> There's other budding groups though such as Britain First and National Action.


the darling buds of may


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## framed (Apr 3, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Unfortunately quite a few people I know think that the stunt reinforced their view of the left as telling people that they can't say what they want, that Farage and his family time is a no go area and that the left look like a bunch of middle class hippies.



Families were considered by AFA as being off-limits and lefties who did not keep to that 'unwritten rule' were considered as cowards and liberty taking cunts. Even if the fash didn't follow those 'rules' themselves, it was important for us to distinguish ourselves in every way from them and their tactics. By all means, they should never feel comfortable and the main protagonists should always be loooking over their shoulders, but attacks on their family homes and even 'stunts' that involve harassing them in public while with their families is beyond the pale imho.


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## Nigel (Apr 5, 2015)

https://www.facebook.com/events/1618170855087109/

WITH REGARDS ANTI FASCIST MOBILISATION AGAINST EDL IN OXFORD SATURDAY !
Thanks to everyone who was active, supported or contributed in any way to our; Anti Fascist Network Independent Anti Fascists mobilisation this Saturday. We are planning on having another informal meeting a week Tuesday; 14th April 2015 for discussion.
Contact: 07944647839


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## gamerunknown (Apr 6, 2015)

They were also out Friday.


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## Nigel (Apr 12, 2015)

List of far right candidates standing in elections (though apparently not complete)
http://www.dreamdeferred.org.uk/201...didates-in-the-general-election-full-details/


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## Nigel (Apr 12, 2015)

Nigel said:


> https://www.facebook.com/events/1618170855087109/
> 
> WITH REGARDS ANTI FASCIST MOBILISATION AGAINST EDL IN OXFORD SATURDAY !
> Thanks to everyone who was active, supported or contributed in any way to our; Anti Fascist Network Independent Anti Fascists mobilisation this Saturday. We are planning on having another informal meeting a week Tuesday; 14th April 2015 for discussion.
> Contact: 07944647839


Have venue. 
Anyone intersted in Oxford give us a ring and leave message.


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## Louis MacNeice (Apr 13, 2015)

Question: whats happening with the EDL  Brighton next weekend...apologies if I've missed a crucial post?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


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## ddraig (Apr 13, 2015)

if you mean Mfe then it is in Blackpool this year


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## gamerunknown (Apr 13, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Question: whats happening with the EDL  Brighton next weekend...apologies if I've missed a crucial post?





ddraig said:


> if you mean Mfe then it is in Blackpool this year



Yeah, March for England has shifted to the North since Brighton wasn't particularly welcoming last time around, a few different groups have announced opposition.

EDL announced a demonstration to fill the vacuum, but it'd be the first one without an ostensible Muslim target as far as I can tell and has been "postponed". Hence the celebration on the 26th.


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## Louis MacNeice (Apr 13, 2015)

ddraig said:


> if you mean Mfe then it is in Blackpool this year



No I meant the EDL march on 18th April; I'm glad they've 'thought better' of the idea.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


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## Thunderfist (Apr 13, 2015)

They have posted a list of 'reasons' to come to Brighton, mostly to do with the Greens and their lack of respect for 'our boys'. I guess we''ll have to see how well the Greens do in the election and await the EDLs decision. Walthamstow's up next on the 9th of May. It was very entertaining last time. http://www.schnews.org.uk/stories/DEATH-KNELL-FOR-THE-EDL/


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## Citizen66 (Apr 13, 2015)

Would be interesting to see who would be defending the Brighton Green Party.  

_defend the strike breakers from the working class...._


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## Thunderfist (Apr 13, 2015)

I wouldn't be defending them anymore then I'm defending a proposed mega-mosque or whatever BS excuse the EDL have come up with to go somewhere and march.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 13, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I wouldn't be defending them anymore then I'm defending a proposed mega-mosque or whatever BS excuse the EDL have come up with to go somewhere and march.



I wouldn't defend a mega mosque or the green party. Sounds a grand day out in the sun though.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 13, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> . Sounds a grand day out in the sun though.


 It will be if it comes to pass


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 14, 2015)

framed said:


> Families were considered by AFA as being off-limits and lefties who did not keep to that 'unwritten rule' were considered as cowards and liberty taking cunts. Even if the fash didn't follow those 'rules' themselves, it was important for us to distinguish ourselves in every way from them and their tactics. By all means, they should never feel comfortable and the main protagonists should always be loooking over their shoulders, but attacks on their family homes and even 'stunts' that involve harassing them in public while with their families is beyond the pale imho.



In a similar vein I remember comedian Jo Brand, shortly after the BNP membership list was published, announcing on stage that she "now knew where the post the shit parcels!". The audience whooped. But this is what racists used to do to Asian and West Indian families in the 60's and 70's.  It was skulking and degenerate and then, and it is skulking and degenerate now.  It is important to fight fascism, but but why and how you do it is nothing less than critical in terms of the overall outcome.


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## framed (Apr 15, 2015)

Joe Reilly said:


> In a similar vein I remember comedian Jo Brand, shortly after the BNP membership list was published, announcing on stage that she "now knew where the post the shit parcels!". The audience whooped. But this is what racists used to do to Asian and West Indian families in the 60's and 70's.  It was skulking and degenerate and then, and it is skulking and degenerate now.  It is important to fight fascism, but but why and how you do it is nothing less than critical in terms of the overall outcome.



I also have a bit of experience of the reverse scenario


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 15, 2015)

framed said:


> I also have a bit of experience of the reverse scenario


Pray expand...


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## framed (Apr 15, 2015)

Joe Reilly said:


> Pray expand...



I meant when the opposition come knocking on our doors... the dickheads who take liberties and give it the big 'un to Farage, Griffin, etc when they're out in public with their families are rarely the ones that have revenge visited upon them and their kin.

I won't delve into further detail on that, might've been too cryptic with my previous reply.


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## Anudder Oik (Apr 15, 2015)

The harrasment of Farage when with his children by a gaggle of upper middle class twats has given oxygen to one of those fascistic looking groups called Bigheads First. There's a video on youtube called "UKIP ATTACKERS GET THEIR COMEUPPANCE!", where a bunch of 1970's NF nostalgics gatecrash a "lefty" meeting. It has had nearly 100,000 views and has a nightmare soundtrack. Some of the video is comedy gold but they could be taken seriously by the wider and now rudderless EDL supporters.


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## nino_savatte (Apr 16, 2015)

Not EDL but related in terms of ideology. It seems Eddy Butler is back and he's been nominated by a Kipper to be a candidate for the English Democrats. 
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/birds-of-a-feather-4392


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## malatesta32 (Apr 17, 2015)

Anudder Oik said:


> The harrasment of Farage when with his children by a gaggle of upper middle class twats has given oxygen to one of those fascistic looking groups called Bigheads First. There's a video on youtube called "UKIP ATTACKERS GET THEIR COMEUPPANCE!", where a bunch of 1970's NF nostalgics gatecrash a "lefty" meeting. It has had nearly 100,000 views and has a nightmare soundtrack. Some of the video is comedy gold but they could be taken seriously by the wider and now rudderless EDL supporters.



UAF meetings are regularly threatened and sometimes visited. they never have proper security or stewarding and it is an easy 'victory' for the fash. it also puts people off from further meetings if they dont feel relatively safe. which is the point. and talking of 'smashing' the EDL and other inflammatory phrases whilst holding placards is likewise offputting.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 17, 2015)

Anudder Oik said:


> a gaggle of upper middle class twats



Upper middle class? I fully expect them to have been promoted to fully fledged members of the aristocracy by the end of the week. 

As previously stated Dan Glass is a self aggrandizing prick , probably a future Peter Hain. However not everyone involved in the stunt is a posho. As it was their meeting that Britain First turned up to, not anyone else's then moaning that they're just provoking reprisals against other people and their kin doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 17, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> UAF meetings are regularly threatened and sometimes visited. they never have proper security or stewarding and it is an easy 'victory' for the fash. it also puts people off from further meetings if they dont feel relatively safe. which is the point. and talking of 'smashing' the EDL and other inflammatory phrases whilst holding placards is likewise offputting.



Where has this happened recently?


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## Smokeandsteam (Apr 17, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> However not everyone involved in the stunt is a posho. .



How do you know? 

What do you think the intervention achieved?


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## Thunderfist (Apr 17, 2015)

Smokeandsteam said:


> How do you know?



Because I know two of them.

 I'm not a fan of the tendency to dismiss anything I don't like as 'middle class' - it diminishes the currency.


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## malatesta32 (Apr 18, 2015)

was just a matter of time:
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip-mp-hopeful-links-up-with-edl-founder-4398


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## malatesta32 (Apr 18, 2015)

Solihull EDL demo update:
Midlands Anti-fascists say: 'We have been kettled by the West Midlands police under breach of the peace, moved to a location and issued a section 14 order after confronting the pitiful EDL presence. Again, the police are protecting the fascists.'  Also: 'Edl kettled in pub. West mids antifa kettled in market sq. Black bloc tried attacking edl. Locals not keen on fash!.. ' And 'About 20 of them shouting whose streets.' Also reports of 7 EDL in Newcastle wandering cluelessly about with a painted bed sheet.


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## laptop (Apr 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I'm not a fan of the tendency to dismiss anything I don't like as 'middle class' - it diminishes the currency.



It also presupposes that no working-class person has ever been up for a bit of dressing-up and theatrical fun. Which is patently not the case.

What it really means is "the event wasn't grim".


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## intersol32 (Apr 18, 2015)

laptop said:


> It also presupposes that no working-class person has ever been up for a bit of dressing-up and theatrical fun. Which is patently not the case.
> 
> What it really means is "the event wasn't grim".



Not at all. But as smokeandsteam points out, you have to ask the question "what did the intervention achieve?"

It's fine saying that it appeals to oneself on a personal level, but what purchase do such actions have amongst the wider working class itself?

If you're not careful all you end up doing is looking like a bunch of lefty students having a doss (even if that's not actually the case).

On the point of protecting your meetings. It's patently obvious that anti-fascist meetings can (and will) be targeted by the far right on occasion. To not at least have some form of stewarding is short sighted and defies common sense - and that doesn't necessarily mean a gang of big lads on the door who'll intimidate all comers.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 18, 2015)

intersol32 said:


> Not at all. But as smokeandsteam points out, you have to ask the question "what did the intervention achieve?"
> 
> It's fine saying that it appeals to oneself on a personal level, but what purchase do such actions have amongst the wider working class itself?



Can anyone really answer that question? Maybe a polling organisation. I suspect however that you already have the answer because like a lot of posters on here you imagine that the entire 'working class' is basically yourself writ large. Hence your ability to confidently pronounce on their likes and dislikes as if they were a monolithic body.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 18, 2015)

.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Can anyone really answer that question? Maybe a polling organisation. I suspect however that you already have the answer because like a lot of posters on here you imagine that the entire 'working class' is basically yourself writ large. Hence your ability to confidently pronounce on their likes and dislikes as if they were a monolithic body.


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## miktheword (Apr 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the anl only resurrected after a series of fascist attacks on swp paper sales, most of which the swp leadership kept from the membership. if memory serves, searchlight published a very hostile editorial about the return of the anl, saying that no need to establish a competitor to afa or words to that effect.






although the resurrection of the ANL had nothing to do really with protection of SWP members from fash attacks. I think Holborrow  at the launch  said they wanted to get away from the 'politics of the punch up'. They definitely denied attacks on their own members, probably until it was happening so often, it couldn't be denied anymore. (e.g. Fighting Talk mentions Somerset Clarion (?) detailing attacks, and others) However, I did confront Pat Stack at a Marxism and put to him the series of attacks.. he replied, 'if it keeps happening, then yes, something will have to be done.' I'm not aware of them stepping up security on meetings or paper sales with ANL II.. maybe others know different?.. I do seem to recall them being armed with crash barriers from behind which chants of 'police protect the fascists' could be heard 

Their motivation, was I think, more to do with the numbers  they thought they could attract to their party, obviously they weren't happy at the success a non sectarian AFA was having around '92, Waterloo getting national publicity (their paper said 'anti fascists turned up' as they hadn't called a mobilisation; I'm pretty sure they did try to claim credit for it elsewhere though)  plus that series of exposes on documentaries about BNP, Searchlight prompted on C18 and the launch of ARA (Jasper?) at the same time.

 As ever with them, building the party meant much more to them than strategy to defeat street fascism in its guise at the time. And probably the same could be said with the winding up of ANL mk I..no more members to be gained.. whereas a bitter NF and BM, were probably turning more violent.


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## The39thStep (Apr 19, 2015)

I went to an AFA public meeting at Manchester town hall the week before the ANL was relaunched. I was still in the SWP at that time and personally had never agreed with the winding down if the ANL in the first place. It was quite clear from that public meeting, well attended btw with what would have been considered to be the sort of audience the SWP should have been relating to, that there was a clear case and a clear demand for an anti fascist movement. I think workers power came out with some sort of open letter to the SWP and a week after as if by magic ANL mark 2 was launched . No doubt in my mind that it was to attract some of AFAs following and head off their their intended audience .


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## The39thStep (Apr 19, 2015)

intersol32 said:


> Not at all. But as smokeandsteam points out, you have to ask the question "what did the intervention achieve?"
> 
> It's fine saying that it appeals to oneself on a personal level, but what purchase do such actions have amongst the wider working class itself?
> 
> ...


Red theatre


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 19, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Can anyone really answer that question? Maybe a polling organisation. I suspect however that you already have the answer because like a lot of posters on here you imagine that the entire 'working class' is basically yourself writ large. Hence your ability to confidently pronounce on their likes and dislikes as if they were a monolithic body.



It's not a case of thinking the working class in monolithic. One, it is a case of understanding that a substantial section of the working class is vulnerable to the UKIP pitch. And two, when you understand why they feel they way they do, a natural accompaniment is an instinct in regard to what will work to harden those sympathies.
Fresher style jolly japes, where the self -indulgent participants appear to be keeping all the fun to themselves, definitely falls into that category. Simply no need for a polling organisation on that one. Only people who don't get points one and two, and who remain unconvinced by the findings of actual polling organisations would beg to differ.


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## intersol32 (Apr 19, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Can anyone really answer that question? Maybe a polling organisation. I suspect however that you already have the answer because like a lot of posters on here you imagine that the entire 'working class' is basically yourself writ large. Hence your ability to confidently pronounce on their likes and dislikes as if they were a monolithic body.



Interesting, because this kind of self-referential politicking and narrow world view is exactly what I was pointing out in regards to those who pulled off the Farage gaffe.

One thing I do know for certain is that getting your hands dirty in community politics means that you'll get whatever academic lefty assumptions you have challenged (and in many instances changed). I agree it's patently ridiculous to hold onto old 'monolithic' ideologies in the same way it's beginning to be equally daft to think that media focussed flash mob style stunts - or "student japes" as Joe mentioned - will effect the opinions of anyone but an extreme minority.

Sorry to sound like the old hand here, but 20-30 years ago I would've probably been applauding the Farage thing and praising it for all its 'radical comedic value'. But once you've seen it a dozen times and you realize that those you're trying to protect or influence are unmoved by it, or worse consider it distasteful and instead react against it, you have to ask some serious questions.

You mentioned in an earlier comment that this Dan Glass character is a bit of a self-promotionist. How in fucks name does that help anyone?

The whole thing just proves once again that the left in this country is a ghetto. They're mostly bubble dwellers primarily interested in their own smug self congratulatory activities and their own cast of characters that no-one outside some miniscule local politico "scene" has even heard or cares about.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 19, 2015)

Joe Reilly said:


> One, it is a case of understanding that a substantial section of the working class is vulnerable to the UKIP pitch. And two, when you understand why they feel they way they do, a natural accompaniment is an instinct in regard to what will work to harden those sympathies.
> .



This is a non-sequitur - understanding that "a substantial section of the working class is vulnerable to the UKIP pitch" does not grant a natural instinct (psychic insight?) into what will work to 'harden those sympathies'. 

I'm struggling to understand why this particular action, (which I wasn't part of or had any hand in organising btw) has aroused such anger and disapproval on here. Clearly more than a few of its critics are in favour of a certain form of community activism, fair enough, but where is the honest appraisal of how that approach works? If the left is a self congratulatory middle class bubble why has it been so hard to break out of it? Surely it can't all be someone else's fault? 

Some anti-UKIP and particularly some anti-EDL stuff has been outright snobbery (jibes about dress sense, tattoos, spelling the dole etc etc) and there I'd agree that the target audience is quite likely to react in an extremely negative way. I don't agree that this stunt fits that bill.


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## intersol32 (Apr 19, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> This is a non-sequitur - understanding that "a substantial section of the working class is vulnerable to the UKIP pitch" does not grant a natural instinct (psychic insight?) into what will work to 'harden those sympathies'.
> 
> I'm struggling to understand why this particular action, (which I wasn't part of or had any hand in organising btw) has aroused such anger and disapproval on here. Clearly more than a few of its critics are in favour of a certain form of community activism, fair enough, but where is the honest appraisal of how that approach works? If the left is a self congratulatory middle class bubble why has it been so hard to break out of it? Surely it can't all be someone else's fault?
> 
> Some anti-UKIP and particularly some anti-EDL stuff has been outright snobbery (jibes about dress sense, tattoos, spelling the dole etc etc) and there I'd agree that the target audience is quite likely to react in an extremely negative way. I don't agree that this stunt fits that bill.



In the first instance, we're all aware of the occasional spike or rise in far right activity and sympathy. On this message board alone there are people whose direct experience of this (and dealing with it) goes back over 40 years or more. Why those far right activities have achieved a popular reach, or alternatively decreased, is sometimes complex and can vary over generations. Nevertheless you can also mark out some obvious trends.

I think one thing that comes through in that experience, and I'm not just speaking about my own here, is that working within the community gives you a better insight into exactly how the far-right or left wing message is received (or sometimes acted upon).

It isn't psychic ability. Like I said before; It's a case of being of it, and spending all your time within it that'll provide the better evaluation of what's happening within the working class. It sounds insanely obvious, but if you want to know something then go and ask them! But just be prepared to have your illusions shattered. Lenin and Trotsky didn't necessarily write about the drug problem existent on a Leicester council estate in the year of 2015. Again a few years back we had some Anarcho Solidarity Workers something or other come along to a community meeting. The residents were seriously concerned about rats and other vermin on the estate. When I mentioned this to one of the Anarchos, she said "well, I'm not running around chasing bloody rats" and promptly never came back again!

Balance that with how the BNP one year were helping fix up OAP's guttering and garden fences for free (and subsequently noting how their vote rose in the same area) and you can see how all this has the potential to play out.

The fault lays with the left in general. It's singularly failed to exploit the weakness of the right whenever it had the opportunity, and it's energies have unfortunately been directed inwardly or towards minority 'identity politics'. I suppose it's more comforting that way. As you mentioned about the anti-EDL snobbery and jibes etc, you can dismiss the whole failing as the working class being lumpen prole thugs.

Much more difficult would be actually winning those same people over to your argument and getting them away from the reactionary bullshit of Farage and similar. That's the task.


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 19, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> This is a non-sequitur - understanding that "a substantial section of the working class is vulnerable to the UKIP pitch" does not grant a natural instinct (psychic insight?) into what will work to 'harden those sympathies'.
> 
> I'm struggling to understand why this particular action, (which I wasn't part of or had any hand in organising btw) has aroused such anger and disapproval on here. Clearly more than a few of its critics are in favour of a certain form of community activism, fair enough, but where is the honest appraisal of how that approach works? If the left is a self congratulatory middle class bubble why has it been so hard to break out of it? Surely it can't all be someone else's fault?
> 
> Some anti-UKIP and particularly some anti-EDL stuff has been outright snobbery (jibes about dress sense, tattoos, spelling the dole etc etc) and there I'd agree that the target audience is quite likely to react in an extremely negative way. I don't agree that this stunt fits that bill.



Do blacks and Jews need a polling group to sniff out prejudice? No? Well, this is no different. After 35 years of being told by both liberals and the neo-liberal right that they're effectively 'inadequate' and their "concerns largely imaginary" (quoting from a post on another thread, here) people from a manual working class background in particular often have a hair trigger antennae for the supercilious social slight. 
It rather sounds like this may come of something of a surprise to you, but there need be nothing "outright" about it for them to suss it either.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 19, 2015)

Joe Reilly said:


> Do blacks and Jews need a polling group to sniff out prejudice? No? Well, this is no different. After 35 years of being told by both liberals and the neo-liberal right that they're effectively 'inadequate' and their "concerns largely imaginary" (quoting from a post on another thread, here) people from a manual working class background in particular often have a hair trigger antennae for the supercilious social slight.
> It rather sounds like this may come of something of a surprise to you, but there need be nothing "outright" about it for them to suss it either.



I hate to bang this drum but I have more than a passing acquaintance with a "manual working class background" - it might be that some people have their backs put up easier than others, but I still find it hard to see how a conga line directed at ex-public schoolboy (who made his money in the city) is perceived by the working class as a social slight.


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## intersol32 (Apr 20, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I hate to bang this drum but I have more than a passing acquaintance with a "manual working class background" - it might be that some people have their backs put up easier than others, but I still find it hard to see how a conga line directed at ex-public schoolboy (who made his money in the city) is perceived by the working class as a social slight.



Are you suggesting that Farage appeals only to those from the same background as himself?

Can you address the points I made above and how "a conga line" is effective in representing the true concerns of those in working class communities, other than just providing a few people with a bit of 'light relief' and a slap on the back for a handful of lefties?

It's easier to make someone look a twat on television than it is to provide a coherent and solid political alternative it seems. Especially if you've nothing else to offer.


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## Casually Red (Apr 20, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> This is a non-sequitur - understanding that "a substantial section of the working class is vulnerable to the UKIP pitch" does not grant a natural instinct (psychic insight?) into what will work to 'harden those sympathies'.
> 
> I'm struggling to understand why this particular action, (which I wasn't part of or had any hand in organising btw) has aroused such anger and disapproval on here. Clearly more than a few of its critics are in favour of a certain form of community activism, fair enough, but where is the honest appraisal of how that approach works? If the left is a self congratulatory middle class bubble why has it been so hard to break out of it? Surely it can't all be someone else's fault?
> 
> Some anti-UKIP and particularly some anti-EDL stuff has been outright snobbery (jibes about dress sense, tattoos, spelling the dole etc etc) and there I'd agree that the target audience is quite likely to react in an extremely negative way. I don't agree that this stunt fits that bill.



Whatever about ones opinion of Farage the fact is he was at that moment a private citizen out for a meal with his family .  That should be totally off limits . In that scenario and context ordinary peope...whos hearts and minds are crucial..can identify much more with the human situation of a family spending time together than those who chose to disrupt it with an oddball escapade . That only garners more sympathy for him and creates an even bigger public disconnect with the insular group behind it . Farage is not a fascist no matter how distasteful his views are . He's not engaged in, linked to or calling for physical force past or present  . He's a non combatant if you will . His people arent into confrontations of that nature therefore it's totally inappropriate to engage him in a family context as opposed to his political one . Like any citizen he should b e able to spend private time with his family in the capacity of a private citizen without them being surrounded , humiliated and intimidated as a family unit . There's plenty of other contexts and fora in which to challenge him and his politics . Over the Sunday roast with his wife and children isn't one of them IMHO .

In my view that's just plain wrong in a moral sense  and therefore counter productive . And creates a scenario where elements on the left are merely playing to their own insular gallery for approval and kudos as opposed to engaging with wider society . Creating an even bigger gulf and disconnect with the average person in the street . And it's precisely within that gulf ..that vacuum..that the positions of Farage and much much worse will and do find traction .


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## Thunderfist (Apr 20, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Farage is not a fascist no matter how distasteful his views are . He's not engaged in, linked to or calling for physical force past or present  . He's a non combatant if you will . His people arent into confrontations of that nature therefore it's totally inappropriate to engage him in a family context as opposed to his political one .



I don't think anyone is arguing that Farage is a fascist - in fact that's why a strategy designed to defeat the BNP isn't necessarily going to work against UKIP. He represents the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party and is a long way from the BNPs Strasserite tendencies. I agree that street anti-fascism is not appropriate fro dealing with UKIP and I think you would have had a point if a bunch of masked up 'antifa' had rushed in and punched him.

However Farage has regularly politicised his presence in pubs, inviting the media to watch him sup bitter and present himself as as a saloon bar everyman. That I would argue makes it appropriate to engage him in a light hearted stunt there.

Again I ask - what of your poltical alternative, where is it, how's it going and where can I read a bit more about it?


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 20, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing that Farage is a fascist - in fact that's why a strategy designed to defeat the BNP isn't necessarily going to work against UKIP. He represents the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory party and is a long way from the BNPs Strasserite tendencies. I agree that street anti-fascism is not appropriate fro dealing with UKIP and I think you would have had a point if a bunch of masked up 'antifa' had rushed in and punched him.
> 
> However Farage has regularly politicised his presence in pubs, inviting the media to watch him sup bitter and present himself as as a saloon bar everyman. That I would argue makes it appropriate to engage him in a light hearted stunt there.
> 
> Again I ask - what of your poltical alternative, where is it, how's it going and where can I read a bit more about it?



A bunch of masked up antifa hasn't been an appropriate way to deal with the BNP this century.

I think there is a clear difference to Farage going to a pub when on the campaign trail, accompanied by the press and other party members and having lunch in a pub with his family.

My political alternative is whining on the internet, failing to recruit people to my union at work and failing to do very much pro-working class community politics.


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 21, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> I went to an AFA public meeting at Manchester town hall the week before the ANL was relaunched. I was still in the SWP at that time and personally had never agreed with the winding down if the ANL in the first place. It was quite clear from that public meeting, well attended btw with what would have been considered to be the sort of audience the SWP should have been relating to, that there was a clear case and a clear demand for an anti fascist movement. I think workers power came out with some sort of open letter to the SWP and a week after as if by magic ANL mark 2 was launched . No doubt in my mind that it was to attract some of AFAs following and head off their their intended audience .



In the November 1991 AFA led 4,000 strong march through Bethnal Green. Two months later the ANL was re-launched. I would suggest the events were connected.


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## The39thStep (Apr 21, 2015)

Joe Reilly said:


> In the November 1991 AFA led 4,000 strong march through Bethnal Green. Two months later the ANL was re-launched. I would suggest the events were connected.


I think it was two factors , first the attacks on the paper sales which were never discussed openly in the branches and secondly that AFA was attracting precisely the sort of people who we had initially recruited around Lewisham and ANL mark one.For an organisation which had to some extent earnt a reputation as being at the forefront of anti fascism we were being outflanked.The problem was that ANL Mark 2 was toothless , much of the branch leadership emphasising no 'squadism'  and tied to not upsetting its backers. So much so that in mobilising for a demo against  far right meeting in a hotel in Manchester even Bamberry had to come up to the Manchester branches to nudge the local leadership into some form of at least verbal physical force anti fascism activity to try and gain  some local  credibility.


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## miktheword (Apr 21, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> I went to an AFA public meeting at Manchester town hall the week before the ANL was relaunched. I was still in the SWP at that time and personally had never agreed with the winding down if the ANL in the first place. It was quite clear from that public meeting, well attended btw with what would have been considered to be the sort of audience the SWP should have been relating to, that there was a clear case and a clear demand for an anti fascist movement. I think workers power came out with some sort of open letter to the SWP and a week after as if by magic ANL mark 2 was launched . No doubt in my mind that it was to attract some of AFAs following and head off their their intended audience .




I was at a public meeting in a district of Manchester at the same time. ('91?) Only reason I remember it was that  Pat H speaking stated that if Joe Public was in here, s/he would have been out the door in a few minutes following the lefty sectarian in fighting from the poorly attended hall.   
Obviously, the difference in attendance may have made a difference...it was raining in the summer..  but not unusual for there I believe.





The39thStep said:


> I think it was two factors , first the attacks on the paper sales which were never discussed openly in the branches and secondly that AFA was attracting precisely the sort of people who we had initially recruited around Lewisham and ANL mark one.For an organisation which had to some extent earnt a reputation as being at the forefront of anti fascism we were being outflanked.The problem was that ANL Mark 2 was toothless , much of the branch leadership emphasising no 'squadism'




And isn't this precisely the point. AFA Mk II was always going to be toothless, 'avoiding politics of punch up' at it s launch, as it wasn't after the same sort of membership. The leadership emphasising 'no squaddism' were advocating the same as the leadership who expelled the squaddists in late seventies / early eighties. So if no rumblings, discussion from branches, as you say, from where was the pressure to launch ANL Mk II, in your second factor? I previously stated it was just a numbers game for them, with ARA also bandwagon jumping, documentaries  etc. So, I don't get how the leadership were seeing themselves as outflanked by AFA having the type of people who they had previously, and still, viewed as proletarian upstarts, with ideas above their station. Are you saying that after previously expelling those working class elements  a decade earlier, they were now looking at recruiting them, as part of their motivation for AFA Mk II?

I may have misunderstood...


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## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2015)

Jim ( W) was the main speaker from AFA with I think Ray Hill? Or I might be getting a bit mixed up. It was well attended though in the main town hall perhaps 250? 
From what I remember there were quite a few people there who at one time had been around the SWP orbit or at least as we used to call them in those days contacts. I think I was the only SWP member there and it seemed to me both strange and sad that AFA were seen by the party as persona non gratis. What was clear though was that AFA, and to some extent the appalling ARA, had not surprisingly attracted a periphery precisely because of the SWPs abstention from anti fascist work . Yes it probably was about numbers, and I think part of the logic was to use the ANL brand to launch a more sanitised version without any ' upstarts' to attract that periphery or to stem the flow.


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## elbows (Apr 23, 2015)

I've been wading through the Tower Hamlets election judgement and I thought I'd post the judges synopsis of the EDL.



> Usefulness of the EDL
> 
> 258  All parties agreed – and it is probably a matter on which judicial notice may properly be taken – that the EDL was an overtly racist organisation, particularly hostile to Muslims. It was also agreed that it is an organisation which does not shrink from violence or attempting to provoke violence in others. In Tower Hamlets and indeed, in the UK, political terms it is wholly negligible. As far as can be ascertained, it does not often seek democratic election and, when it does, its level of failure is absolute. Its membership is tiny, though undoubtedly noisy.





> The EDL’s modus operandi appears to be that, from time to time, it proposes a march, usually through an area with a large BME, preferably a large Muslim, population. A march by the EDL in Tower Hamlets in September 2013 featured in the evidence. Once the march is proposed, all the political and community organisations in the area normally vie with each other in demanding that the march be banned. If it is not, then, they plan a large counter-demonstration. Pausing there, this is (certainly on the evidence before the court) an opportunity for each group to castigate the supposed half-heartedness of the others and to adopt a ‘more anti-fascist than thou’ posture. The march occurs: the assembled political and community groups stage their counter-protest. Sometimes a few heads get broken. The police and (subsequently) the street cleaners deservedly earn substantial overtime. The dogs bark and the caravan moves on. Everyone congratulates themselves that they have ‘seen off the fascists’.





> No apologies are made for this somewhat cynical view of the EDL’s activities, because the uses to which the EDL was put by Mr Rahman and THF were equally cynical. Apart from causing a brouhaha once a year or thereabouts, the power and influence of the EDL is, in somewhere like Tower Hamlets, non-existent.





> But the EDL does have its uses. Because it dislikes Mr Rahman – undoubtedly, in the case of the EDL, because he is non-white – the EDL seizes on any criticism of Mr Rahman and repeats it on social media. This enables Mr Rahman and his cohorts to argue as follows: criticisms of Mr Rahman by his political opponents are adopted and repeated by the EDL: the EDL is a racist organisation: therefore anyone who criticises Mr Rahman is giving aid and comfort to the EDL: therefore anyone who gives aid and comfort to the EDL is himself a racist: therefore it is racist to criticise Mr Rahman. This series of propositions informed all the responses of Mr Rahman and his team to criticisms and may be taken to be an epitome of the thought processes of Mr Alibor Choudhury.





> Truly, in Tower Hamlets, if the EDL did not exist, like Voltaire’s God, it would be necessary to invent it.



Taken from pages 84-86 of http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/judgment.pdf


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## cantsin (Apr 23, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Can anyone really answer that question? Maybe a polling organisation. I suspect however that you already have the answer because like a lot of posters on here you imagine that the entire 'working class' is basically yourself writ large. Hence your ability to confidently pronounce on their likes and dislikes as if they were a monolithic body.



Obviously we're all guessing a bit here, all making assumptions, but instinctively, can you really see this kind of activist theatre type intervention vs Farage + family doing anything to put off anyone voting UKIP ? (Apparently)  posh studes pulling off those kind of stunts  just seems v likely to play straight into UKIP s paper thin ' UKIP vs the elite ' schtick surely ?


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## Thunderfist (Apr 23, 2015)

cantsin said:


> Obviously we're all guessing a bit here, all making assumptions, but instinctively, can you really see this kind of activist theatre type intervention vs Farage + family doing anything to put off anyone voting UKIP ? (Apparently)  posh studes pulling off those kind of stunts  just seems v likely to play straight into UKIP s paper thin ' UKIP vs the elite ' schtick surely ?





intersol32 said:


> Are you suggesting that Farage appeals only to those from the same background as himself?



Why do we assume that Farage can transcend his class background but any counter-protestors can't?


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## Thunderfist (Apr 23, 2015)

elbows said:


> I've been wading through the Tower Hamlets election judgement



It's gripping reading but pretty overblown in a lot of places , The Pickwick Papers?, Charles Parnell's mistress? and I'm only halfway through!


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## cantsin (Apr 23, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Why do we assume that Farage can transcend his class background but any counter-protestors can't?



He talks simple " immigrants taking jobs / forcing wages down / all part of mainstream elites EU backed plans" bullshit , the "protestors" message is not nearly so clear / defined , and wrongly or rightly, the air they give off seems to smell of uni drama club .


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## Thunderfist (Apr 23, 2015)

cantsin said:


> He talks simple " immigrants taking jobs / forcing wages down / all part of mainstream elites EU backed plans" bullshit , the "protestors" message is not nearly so clear / defined , and wrongly or rightly, the air they give off seems to smell of uni drama club .


 To be honest I'm just amused by the reaction that this protest provoked on here. Some of us must be a bit closer to the 'uni drama club' than we care to admit.


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## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

_No, you're posh but hiding it._

Fucking hell What a wasted two minutes i spent on you.


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## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2015)

And if i hear one more posho saying _lad i_'m going to...dunno whatever big hard white lads do.


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## cantsin (Apr 23, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> To be honest I'm just amused by the reaction that this protest provoked on here. Some of us must be a bit closer to the 'uni drama club' than we care to admit.



You may be on your own a bit on this one i suspect, no shame in am dram and the like tho, fill yer boots ! 

( I used to live in the same road in Tufnell Park as Frances de la Tour from Rising Damp for a bit, fine actress in her day, and another Trot Thesp in the WRP -,not sure if her / the Redgraves / Gerry Healy wld have gone along with all this tho , " bourgeois adventurism" possibly.)


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## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Why do we assume that Farage can transcend his class background but any counter-protestors can't?



Well farage isn't running about doing the conga for starters . Outside of the odd wedding you're highly unlikely to see the working class engaged in that activity .

That type of stunt did absolutely zero to challenge his political message . It did absolutely nothing to counter or address any political position that he advances . It put him in no political difficulty whatsoever , unsurprisingly because he wasnt even engaged in political activity at the time . It challenged absolutely nothing other than his right to sit down and have a private meal with his family unmolested .

It didn't advance any political point , political discussion or refute his utterances and message in any manner . The social background of those behind it , while contributory perhaps to its adoption as a method, is largely irrelevant as regards to its usefulness as a method . It was absolutely useless as it challenged nothing and asserted nothing of any political or social value , regardless of anyones class background . And in fact may have been worse than useless in terms of being counter productive , as well as its unpopularity demonstrating his opposition are out of touch with their supposed core audience . A message he positively thrives on and makes real political capital on when it comes to labour , lib dem and Tory alike . Outfits that have major support . When it comes from left groupuscle that nobody's heard of outside trendy lefty circles it just makes them look like cranks doing what cranks do . For the sake of it with no political relevance to any debate .

Ask yourself who appears to be the normal bloke on the street in such a situation ? Clapton ultra types doing a conga line in a restaurant or a man sitting eating a meal with his family ? Who do ordinary people identify with more in that scenario ? All it proved is a group of people hardly anyone's heard of don't like Nigel farage..for some reason or other that wasn't even remotely gotten across . That does hi no harm whatsoever . The very fact political parties and media appear to loathe him is a major reason why he's hoovering up the votes of the disillusioned .


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## hocuspocus (Apr 24, 2015)

I have read threads for a while, my first post so here goes.

I have been to three EDL demos, as an observer. I talked to both sides, on one side were white males, uneducated, alientated, the poorest of the poor, angry and wanting a direction or purpose to their lives. I talked to a guy who had been in Belmarsh, he was angry needed something to direct it at.

Their main concern was a tunnel vision concern about Islamification, which irrationally overspilled into a dislike and hatred of everything Muslim.

I talked to the other side, mainly public sector workers, teachers, students etc. Their hatred was for the uneducated white males opposite, who I think deep down scared them, as a threat to their class. I probed them with a few questions, asking if concern over large Islamic areas with had no intergration in working class towns was a just concern, I also asked them as a self employed manual worker, if I had a justification in defending my living from people not as skilled who could work at half my rate, for asking such questions I was simply called a racist. In reality if teachers from overseas came in and replaced teachers in UK schools at half the rate of pay they would be up in arms.

My old man was a SOGAT shop steward, all my family were labour. Not any more. I have nothing in common with the new left, not in culture, nor values, nor outlook. By excluding the working class the left only really exists as a shell.

I beliEve racism against any individual is wrong as is sectarianism, But I cant side with those who write ofF poor uneducated white males as scum while seeking to apologise for those who side with ISIS and fight for them.

Its a sad reality, but I found myself more comfotrable in the pub with the edl, for all the faults then being lectured by middle class weekend leftists. The left is dead, it killed itself.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

Casually Red said:


> Well farage isn't running about doing the conga for starters . Outside of the odd wedding you're highly unlikely to see the working class engaged in that activity .



Outside the odd wedding you're unlikley to see anyone doing it (or the Okie-Cokie). 

"The social background of those behind it , while contributory perhaps to its adoption as a method, is largely irrelevant as regards to its usefulness as a method " - Absolutley correct, and yet virtually everyone has made an issue of their supposed class background (which as I have said in two cases that I know of is off the mark). 

Being on this forum is sometimes like watching a piss-poor police procedural - whatever the issue the villain is identical. What's stopping our revolution? Is it the police, the oligarchy, the judiciary, the media barons, the bankers or the aristocracy? No - it's those fucking middle class students with their 'identity politics'.

Why is this? Probably because most of the working class as fuck posters on here have in fact been through some form of further education and don't work in manual trades. It's a pretty natural human tendency to define yourself against what's immediately next to you and it's in full flower here.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2015)

I'm a blue collar worker. What about you, Thunderfist?


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm a blue collar worker. What about you, Thunderfist?



Blue collar - don't want to say what i do for a living on a public forum but I'm quite familiar with man's eternal quest for his tape measure. I'm from a working class background, both parents left school at 16 and were in manual/clerical work. I was offered every opportunity to climb the social ladder however but fucked it up by going to live up a tree.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2015)

unwashed, in need of vanish collar here- collarism as class indicator is merican anyway


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> unwashed, in need of vanish collar here- collarism as class indicator is merican anyway



The trouble is that all this autobiographical shit is exactly what our arch-enemies the middle class intersectionalist privilege theory kids do all the time.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> The trouble is that all this autobiographical shit is exactly what our arch-enemies the middle class intersectionalist privilege theory kids do all the time.



But you appear to be gleefully telling us we're middle class. I'm telling you I'm not, you appear to be coy about it.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> But you appear to be gleefully telling us we're middle class. I'm telling you I'm not, you appear to be coy about it.



I don't think that not announcing what I do for a living and where I might be found on a public forum is 'coy'.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I don't think that announcing what I do for a living and where I might be found on a public forum is 'coy'. Do you have a degree?



I don't have a degree. I did an apprenticeship. I don't think there was any particular bar to me going to uni, my sister did, but I wanted to earn money upon leaving school.


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## Limerick Red (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> What's stopping our revolution? Is it the police, the oligarchy, the judiciary, the media barons, the bankers or the aristocracy? No - it's those fucking middle class students with their 'identity politics'.



But it is, as anyone involved in any kind of broad front campaign work can attest to, identity politics is the fuckin scourge of revolutionary politics and is middle class / bourgeoise by nature , it's the defence of self interest over common interest, it's been used as a tool to smash resistance, to terrify away those who are not au fait with it's rules and regulations, it's purpose is disorganisation. Connolly was correct when he identified it's the stomach not the brain which was the economic basis of politics.

The attacks on ukip are attacks of the middle class left / labour affiliated establishment being rocked, so the focus can be fully switched from the amount of wars and interventions labour have being involved in, the amount of immigrant detention centres they built, the amount of racist mugs they printed to ... This ukip geezer blames the bad weather on homosexuals, and the no platforming of a racist prick having his dinner is in defence of the establishment, let's paint Farage a full on nazi, let's move all our UAF efforts over to stand up to ukip, because the building ukip up as a fascist party that need to be no platformed allows 1) not to have to engage with what their saying and 2) not having to admit labour are sayin the exact same things


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

Limerick Red said:


> But it is, as anyone involved in any kind of broad front campaign work can attest to, identity politics is the fuckin scourge of revolutionary politics and is middle class / bourgeoise by nature , it's the defence of self interest over common interest, it's been used as a tool to smash resistance, to terrify away those who are not au fait with it's rules and regulations, it's purpose is disorganisation. Connolly was correct when he identified it's the stomach not the brain which was the economic basis of politics.
> 
> The attacks on ukip are attacks of the middle class left / labour affiliated establishment being rocked, so the focus can be fully switched from the amount of wars and interventions labour have being involved in, the amount of immigrant detention centres they built, the amount of racist mugs they printed to ... This ukip geezer blames the bad weather on homosexuals, and the no platforming of a racist prick having his dinner is in defence of the establishment, let's paint Farage a full on nazi, let's move all our UAF efforts over to stand up to ukip, because the building ukip up as a fascist party that need to be no platformed allows 1) not to have to engage with what their saying and 2) not having to admit labour are sayin the exact same things



If those involve in the stunt had no other politics I'd agree with you. But the fact is that the some of them are involved in defence of asylum seekers and refugees on a day to day basis. The two I know were both involved in the anti-war movement - Ewa Jasciwiez has spent time organising with oil workers trade unions in Iraq, the other woman I know selflessly spends half her life doing humanitarian work in Calais so hearing them written off as middle class student wankers is a bit irritating.


----------



## gamerunknown (Apr 24, 2015)

hocuspocus said:


> In reality if teachers from overseas came in and replaced teachers in UK schools at half the rate of pay they would be up in arms.



This is the natural tendency for capitalism. The response of any decent internationalist is to 1. integrate those individuals into trade unions, so standards are maintained both for the new arrivals and the indigenous workers and 2. do everything in one's power to stop one's government from devastating the economies of foreign countries, which forces people to migrate in the first place (the largest migrant population to England is from India, before that it was from Ireland - not a coincidence).

Think how absurd it would have been if London had excluded workers from Glasgow earlier last century when there was much higher unemployment there - or the same for any city excluding workers from any region which has seen its industries collapse.

Whether that's a "leftist" response or not I have no idea.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/if-i-cant-dance-dabke-in-nigel-farages-local-pub-its-not-my-revolution/


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## Smokeandsteam (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> If those involve in the stunt had no other politics I'd agree with you. But the fact is that the some of them are involved in defence of asylum seekers and refugees on a day to day basis. The two I know were both involved in the anti-war movement - Ewa Jasciwiez has spent time organising with oil workers trade unions in Iraq, the other woman I know selflessly spends half her life doing humanitarian work in Calais so hearing them written off as middle class student wankers is a bit irritating.



Not sure what 'humanitarian work in Calais' involves given that there isn't humanitarian crisis there that I am aware of.

But the questions I was seeking an answer on:

1. What did those involved in the jaunt think they were going to achieve? 
2. How do they think the stunt was perceived outside of their bubble?

still haven't been answered. 

I know you aren't a spokesman for those involved but as you know some of them and your suggestion is that they are serious about their politics so I am genuinely interested to know what they thought would be achieved by hounding Farage and his family out of a pub.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2015)

the ongoing refugee camps there right? constant gang exploitation and police harrasment, tent towns and the like


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## cantsin (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> If those involve in the stunt had no other politics I'd agree with you. But the fact is that the some of them are involved in defence of asylum seekers and refugees on a day to day basis. The two I know were both involved in the anti-war movement - Ewa Jasciwiez has spent time organising with oil workers trade unions in Iraq, the other woman I know selflessly spends half her life doing humanitarian work in Calais so hearing them written off as middle class student wankers is a bit irritating.



fair points, not clever to write them off as individuals while I sit behind a keyboard doing f/a about f/a, its the nature/focus of this particular  action that seems problematic, and what they did / and projected  collectively (whether you are pro or against ) outweighs at the time what they do / are individually.


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## Smokeandsteam (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> http://www.redpepper.org.uk/if-i-cant-dance-dabke-in-nigel-farages-local-pub-its-not-my-revolution/



Now we are getting somewhere. 

The aims of the protest were:  

1. solidarity-building 
2. boundaries-breaching 
3. antifascist action

To what extent were these achieved by the Cabaret and pub invasion?


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## Limerick Red (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> http://www.redpepper.org.uk/if-i-cant-dance-dabke-in-nigel-farages-local-pub-its-not-my-revolution/


In the first paragraph describes Farage as a fascist


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## tufty79 (Apr 24, 2015)

Is this the same ewa jasciwiez that took part in a spectacular action fuckup, which seriously impacted my life, and then threatened to sue me for 'defammation' when i discussed it? Not entirely sure i'm a fan of whatever she think solidarity is.


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## editor (Apr 24, 2015)

hocuspocus said:


> I have read threads for a while, my first post so here goes.


Actually, you've been banned three times already so let's go for a straight four in a row.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2015)

Not Firky, then.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

tufty79 said:


> Is this the same ewa jasciwiez that took part in a spectacular action fuckup, which seriously impacted my life, and then threatened to sue me for 'defammation' when i discussed it? Not entirely sure i'm a fan of whatever she think solidarity is.


 Spelt like that? I doubt there's two of em. (in this country anyway)


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

editor said:


> Actually, you've been banned three times already so let's go for a straight four in a row.


 EDL?


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Not sure what 'humanitarian work in Calais' involves given that there isn't humanitarian crisis there that I am aware of.
> 
> But the questions I was seeking an answer on:
> 
> ...



I'm kind of surprised that you haven't heard anything about the situation in Calais. Calais effectively acts as a chokepoint for migrants trying to make their way to the UK. They live in shanty towns and squats that are regularly demolished/evicted by the police and exist hand to mouth waiting for their chance to cross the border. They are cold and hungry - in the winter some die of hypothermia. Police brutality is a constant fact of life.Some UK and french activists under the No Borders banner have established a slightly ramshackle humanitarian aid project that hands out food and clothes and monitors police activity. https://calaismigrantsolidarity.wordpress.com/

For answers to points 1 and 2 you'd really have to take Ewa's word for it (as you point out I'm not  a spokesman) or interview them yourself.


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## intersol32 (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Outside the odd wedding you're unlikley to see anyone doing it (or the Okie-Cokie).
> 
> "The social background of those behind it , while contributory perhaps to its adoption as a method, is largely irrelevant as regards to its usefulness as a method " - Absolutley correct, and yet virtually everyone has made an issue of their supposed class background (which as I have said in two cases that I know of is off the mark).
> 
> Being on this forum is sometimes like watching a piss-poor police procedural - whatever the issue the villain is identical. What's stopping our revolution? Is it the police, the oligarchy, the judiciary, the media barons, the bankers or the aristocracy? No - it's those fucking middle class students with their 'identity politics'.



I've known a handful of middle class anti-fascists over the years and I'd never discount their contribution. Mainly because the task at hand combined actions that had a solid analysis and outcome that we all agreed with (although they would've certainly been critical of the Farage protest too).

We could carp on about how the issue of 'identity politics' in campaigns and how that has indeed been the result of the 'student' left bringing with them a focus that either shifts away from class based politics or is a mis-reading of it - but that point was made perhaps a dozen posts ago.

It is a pity that the people you know from the action are not on here to involve themselves in the discussion, as I can understand the frustration you must be going through in attempting to 'translate' what their thoughts were on the matter. Which is perhaps why you come across in your posts as being on the defensive all the time.

At the end of the day you know where I stand. As a footnote to that I think what's been needed for the past two decades on the left is a serious and honest re-appraisal of where it's going and who it truly represents. It has to break out of the confines that it so consistently creates for itself if it wants to connect with the Working Class.

Playing to its own narrow constituency of leftist activists, with only a nod to what they 'think' the Working Class will appreciate as its own concern, simply isn't enough. You have to be far more ambitious than that.

If that doesn't happen, then it will persistently give those communities over to the most reactionary elements whilst being shunned as political outsiders.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

Be critical of the Farage protest by all means, everyone's got an opinion. However sneering about the supposed class background of people involved does not a critique make, that's the point I've been making (here and on the Clapton thread). Opposing identity politics with another form of identity politics is a dead end

"At the end of the day you know where I stand. As a footnote to that I think what's been needed for the past two decades on the left is a serious and honest re-appraisal of where it's going and who it truly represents. It has to break out of the confines that it so consistently creates for itself if it wants to connect with the Working Class."

Looking around the forum I can see that there's a thread dedicated to the IWCA (I'm making the presumption that's where you're coming from) and what happened. I'm interested in reading a serious analysis of what went right and wrong with that approach. If the answer is that everything went right (and according to the masterplan) but it was de-railed because of some lefty students it'll be difficult to take seriously.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2015)

Working class isn't an identity ffs.


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Why is this? Probably because most of the working class as fuck posters on here have in fact been through some form of further education and don't work in manual trades. It's a pretty natural human tendency to define yourself against what's immediately next to you and it's in full flower here.



'We're all middle class now'?


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Working class isn't an identity ffs.


 No - the actual status of having to sell your labour power for the means of subsistence isn't an identity, but the outward signifiers of PFWC* culture have been throroughly commodified and are regularly regurgitated on here.  

* Only came across this on the Clapton thread but I like it.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 24, 2015)

Joe Reilly said:


> 'We're all middle class now'?


 No - but there's not as sharp a defining line as some make out.


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## chilango (Apr 24, 2015)

Perhaps before embarking on yet another "class" oddessy it might be worth reflecting on why people serious about social change ("revolution") place the w/c in a central role, and then seeing how this applies here and now.


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## framed (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> The two I know were both involved in the anti-war movement - Ewa Jasciwiez has spent time organising with oil workers trade unions in Iraq, the other woman I know selflessly spends half her life doing humanitarian work in Calais so hearing them written off as middle class student wankers is a bit irritating.



What does she spend the other 'half of her life' doing - is she employed to do 'humanitarian work in Calais' or does she hop on and off the ferries at her own expense?


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## Joe Reilly (Apr 24, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> No - but there's not as sharp a defining line as some make out.



How very New Labour of you.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 25, 2015)

framed said:


> What does she spend the other 'half of her life' doing - is she employed to do 'humanitarian work in Calais' or does she hop on and off the ferries at her own expense?



Ewa is a public figure, the other woman isn't, so I'm not going to discuss her work history with you (How was your JobSearch in the last two weeks?). But if pretending that she's a trustafarian or a slumming aristocrat makes you happy then go for it.

Btw the whole Smashy & Nicey gag is based on the fact that they have to be seen to be doing charity instead of quietly getting on with it. So, nice as it was to see Harry and Paul again (they were really at their best in the 90s wouldn't you agree?) it doesn't really fit.


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## The39thStep (Apr 25, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Blue collar - don't want to say what i do for a living on a public forum but I'm quite familiar with man's eternal quest for his tape measure. I'm from a working class background, both parents left school at 16 and were in manual/clerical work. I was offered every opportunity to climb the social ladder however but fucked it up by going to live up a tree.


I always wanted a tree house when I was a kid but we didn't have a back garden. What got you in to being an undertaker?


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## Thunderfist (Apr 25, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> I always wanted a tree house when I was a kid but we didn't have a back garden.



That is so, so sad. I'm really sorry that I didn't check my privilege without posting. In future all references to trees will be prefaced with TRIGGER WARNING: Arboresence.

 In the meantime maybe this'll cheer you up.


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## chilango (Apr 25, 2015)

Oh dear.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 25, 2015)

What's 'trigger warning'? Is it more identity jargon?


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## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2015)




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## Chick Webb (Apr 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> What's 'trigger warning'? Is it more identity jargon?


You're not into fanfiction obviously.

It's a warning that is put on stories, articles etc. if they are deemed to contain something readers will find excessively upsetting or "triggering". Stuff like rape or child abuse.  Imo it's fine to include these warnings in fiction if people feel the need, but having them in an academic context is infantilising and ridiculous.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2015)

and yet, thats whats happening increasingly. I read last year about some attempt to have trigger warnings on a uni campus. Well thats anyone studying history, politics, divinity, literature whatever fucked if they avoid triggers. History is one long litany of rape and war ffs. And fiction has its horrors.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 25, 2015)

dp


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## Citizen66 (Apr 25, 2015)

dp


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## The39thStep (Apr 25, 2015)

Chick Webb said:


> You're not into fanfiction obviously.
> 
> It's a warning that is put on stories, articles etc. if they are deemed to contain something readers will find excessively upsetting or "triggering". Stuff like rape or child abuse.  Imo it's fine to include these warnings in fiction if people feel the need, but having them in an academic context is infantilising and ridiculous.


Lol


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## Citizen66 (Apr 25, 2015)

Chick Webb said:


> You're not into fanfiction obviously.
> 
> It's a warning that is put on stories, articles etc. if they are deemed to contain something readers will find excessively upsetting or "triggering". Stuff like rape or child abuse.  Imo it's fine to include these warnings in fiction if people feel the need, but having them in an academic context is infantilising and ridiculous.



I'm seeing it all over the place and not necessarily political places. It's contagious.


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## Casually Red (Apr 25, 2015)

I'm traumatised by trigger warnings . Wish there was some way I could find out beforehand if I'm going to be subjected to one .


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## cantsin (Apr 25, 2015)

"Trigger warning" proponents see them in the same terms as nut allergy warnings etc,  which for victims of abuse / rape etc must make sense , and I guess must apply equally to fiction / non fiction , ie : a triggers a trigger.

Personally can't think of strong arguments against them. But also find it hard to picture anyone I know, whatever their circumstances, whatever they've been through, wanting them/needing them IRL . But cld be totally wrong on that , and they'll be standard practise in yrs to come.


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## NormFarr (Apr 25, 2015)

cantsin said:


> "Trigger warning" proponents see them in the same terms as nut allergy warnings etc,  which for victims of abuse / rape etc must make sense , and I guess must apply equally to fiction / non fiction , ie : a triggers a trigger.
> 
> Personally can't think of strong arguments against them. But also find it hard to picture anyone I know, whatever their circumstances, whatever they've been through, wanting them/needing them IRL . But cld be totally wrong on that , and they'll be standard practise in yrs to come.



Don't want to derail the thread here but...

The strongest argument I can offer against trigger warnings is that as someone who has suffered from anxiety in the past and a trainee mental health nurse now I think it is more important to help people work through their anxieties around a difficult subject rather than delineate it as a panic attack 'trigger' and allow person to avoid it rather than resolve their thought processes. Just the word 'trigger' primes a person for a panic attack before they have even had chance to rationalise their situation.

Say a student is in a literature class and they have been sexually assaulted in the past and one of the poems or whatever contains a reference to rape. You could have a TW warning and the person could leave the room and allow their anxiety to debilitate their studies/life, etc. when in real life rape doesn't come with a TW... Or ideally you could help them address their thoughts.

For example: I am in a lecture, rape has just been mentioned, I have been raped and I feel uncomfortable and on the verge of a panic attack, HOWEVER I am safe in the company of my friends who I trust and who are there for me, I am safe and I will not be raped.

This approach is best way forward IMO because it doesn't just allow a person to identify what personally makes them anxious, it actively helps them deal with it as well.

It is far more sustainable and compassionate in the long wrong to help victims who TWs apply to to develop their own ways of coping with anxiety rather than avoiding things which might set it off. I recognise that there's a big problem with victims of domestic/sexual assault in particular not coming forward which means they are out of reach the mental health service, but for all the efforts to implement trigger warnings university counselling services could just run a lecture a term teaching people basic rationalisation strategies and try to give them the confidence to face the real world - where life doesn't come with a bleeding TW.

In my opinion the trigger warning movement resonates with the left's focus on identity politics. I.e. it attacks the symptoms of a problem rather than the cause. The biggest proponents of TWs at my university are the same kind of self-professed 'intersectional feminist' wankers who fail to see the cause of a bad thing and attack the symptoms of it instead - e.g. they call for more black or female CEOs without grasping the fact that capitalism is the structural root of discrimination in the first place, and such 'solutions' would actually make things worse for working class blacks/women. TWs represent the same failure to work out the root of the problem rather than the symptoms IMO.


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## NormFarr (Apr 25, 2015)

NormFarr said:


> Don't want to derail the thread here but...
> 
> Just the word 'trigger' primes a person for a panic attack before they have even had chance to rationalise their situation.



Maybe trigger warnings should come with a trigger warning?


----------



## keybored (Apr 25, 2015)




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## NormFarr (Apr 25, 2015)

keybored said:


>



Not sure if I'm being thick here, please tell me that's supposed to be a joke! I've heard crazier shit at SU meetings...


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## Thunderfist (Apr 25, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> That is so, so sad. I'm really sorry that I didn't check my privilege without posting. In future all references to trees will be prefaced with TRIGGER WARNING: Arboresence.



For the love of Christ don't tell me anyone took this seriously? Where's the "I am being massively facetious/sarcastic" emoticon for the benefit of the more literally minded browsers?


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## Citizen66 (Apr 25, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> For the love of Christ don't tell me anyone took this seriously? Where's the "I am being massively facetious/sarcastic" emoticon for the benefit of the more literally minded browsers?



I just wanted to know what it meant, sarcastically or otherwise.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I just wanted to know what it meant, sarcastically or otherwise.


 Phew! I thought you were dead set against all this intersectionalist privilege theory stuff - what happened to 'know your enemy"?


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## Citizen66 (Apr 25, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Phew! I thought you were dead set against all this intersectionalist privilege theory stuff - what happened to 'know your enemy"?



Im just wwc male. I don't think it's intended for me anyway. Shrug.


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## cesare (Apr 25, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Phew! I thought you were dead set against all this intersectionalist privilege theory stuff - what happened to 'know your enemy"?


I've been wondering that myself. Because I've been seeing a fuckload of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" recently and have been wondering what the fuck has happened to people's critical faculties.

Not aimed at you C66


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## Citizen66 (Apr 25, 2015)

Name names.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> For the love of Christ don't tell me anyone took this seriously? Where's the "I am being massively facetious/sarcastic" emoticon for the benefit of the more literally minded browsers?


these   and also 

possibly also  for times when you want to be passive aggressive with a wink.  is also popular.


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## Thunderfist (Apr 25, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Im just wwc male. I don't think it's intended for me anyway. Shrug.



Aaah but did you have a back garden? Are you arboreally privileged?


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## Citizen66 (Apr 25, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Aaah but did you have a back garden? Are you arboreally privileged?



Surely this question requires context? I can point you to where you can buy a house with garden for under ten grand near my home town where as in London you can pay £6,000 pcm private rent and having nothing more than a communal landing.


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## intersol32 (Apr 26, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Be critical of the Farage protest by all means, everyone's got an opinion. However sneering about the supposed class background of people involved does not a critique make, that's the point I've been making (here and on the Clapton thread). Opposing identity politics with another form of identity politics is a dead end
> 
> "At the end of the day you know where I stand. As a footnote to that I think what's been needed for the past two decades on the left is a serious and honest re-appraisal of where it's going and who it truly represents. It has to break out of the confines that it so consistently creates for itself if it wants to connect with the Working Class."
> 
> Looking around the forum I can see that there's a thread dedicated to the IWCA (I'm making the presumption that's where you're coming from) and what happened. I'm interested in reading a serious analysis of what went right and wrong with that approach. If the answer is that everything went right (and according to the masterplan) but it was de-railed because of some lefty students it'll be difficult to take seriously.



That would be a good place to start. If you can get hold of a copy of the IWCA/AFA "Filling the Vacuum" document, it may also make useful background reading. Not sure if the full text is online somewhere?


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## DaveCinzano (Apr 27, 2015)

intersol32 said:


> That would be a good place to start. If you can get hold of a copy of the IWCA/AFA "Filling the Vacuum" document, it may also make useful background reading. Not sure if the full text is online somewhere?


This it?

https://libcom.org/library/filling-vacuum-london-afa


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## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2015)

Bit of an odd _err _from a poster here in the comments. Yes gamerunknown, class against class no longer exists but pointing it out 6 years after the fact in that way is a bit...odd.

Any just to complete the pedantic stakes, the libcom note says 'Text from Class against Class', when it should really say text hosted at class against class.  (And we  shall rise again, quite soon, in fact)


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## Thunderfist (Apr 27, 2015)

Thanks for that - I did read it at (or around) the time. Re-reading it was useful. A few things sprang out - firstly I agree that anti-fascism is a rearguard action, that it has to exist because of the failure of the 'left'. 

Secondly ( and something I hadn't remembered) was the warning of the danger of getting involved in tribal or gang warfare with an opposition that only wants to 'play'. With some sections of the far-right we're there already - as the EDL has splintered and deviated from it's original mission statement we have seen the development of little street groups whose only purpose is a scrap with the left. In a sense this represents a victory - they've retreated from any attempt to create a mainstream movement and instead run around putting up stickers on lefty social centres and outing people online.

However I think there are some crucial differences between anti-fascism in the early nineties and where we have found ourselves now. Thanks to the BNP decision to opt for a purely electoral route and the collapse of the NF there was little or no street fascism to contend with for around 15 years. There were odd (very odd) attempts to march in Dover and Margate by the NF and a few Blood & Honour gigs. Tiny, tiny groupuscules like the British People's banged on about the Illuminati, ZOG and the Rothschilds from the sidelines and very occasionally made a nuisance for themselves.

2009 saw the emergence of the EDL. Unlike the BNP or the NF this was a single issue right wing campaign. It effectively attempted to import the tactics of the Orange March to mainland UK. The EDL are and were and online phenomenon, they don't aim for day to day 'control of the streets' but more the creation of a collective 'common sense', aided and abetted by the mainstream media. There were no public meetings or attempts to leaflet in small groups, let alone stand for election. As a single issue campaign there was never any attempt to outline any kind of social or economic ideas.

A lot of this stuff is obviously shrouded in mystery but it certainly appears that for a while monied US neo-cons were prepared to support the EDL (flying Tommy et al out to the Twin Towers memorial etc) and there was a certain amount of intellectual work being done e.g Gates of Vienna blog on developing a 'clash of civilisations' narrative. So this sentence from "Filling the Vacuum" seemed particularly appropriate "In addition the fear of physical violence means that they are unable to bring their more articulate middle class supporters onto the streets for fear of losing them entirely.". Once opposition to the EDLs marches began to be organised effectively they became punch-ups, even mini-riots. Did anti-fascists win every single encounter? No (but as an old instructor once told me, "you can't swim without getting wet and you can't box without getting hit"), but by making an  EDL demo a confrontational experience the intellectual wing faded away. Despite all the online bluster attendances at EDL demos that promised to be heavy (e.g Tower Hamlets, Walthamstow, Bradford) were always markedly lower than those that were going to be an easy ride (e.g Luton or Peterborough)

It's my belief that original plan behind an EDL demo was to force confrontation between the League and local residents in ethnic minority areas in order to present images of an ongoing 'race war' to provoke further conflict and harden public opinion against rioting Muslims. An effect that arguably the NF had achieved with the Bradford Riots. It was and is worth making sure that there is a sizeable 'white' opposition to these ultra-nationalist marches. It muddles the clash of civilisations narrative and extends the hand of solidarity to marginalised groups. (I remember being in Bradford for I think the third EDL demo there, and being dressed as I was, I was approached by four local Asian/Muslim men to suss out if I was EDL - My accent gave me away immediatley - "You're not from Yorkshire are ya?", "No, I've come up from Brighton" , "Brighton? Are you an anarchist? You do a fucking good job you lot" - smiles and handshakes all round)

So we had an active ultra-nationalist/ English loyalist street movement but no obvious mainstream political movement to take advantage of it. The BNPs relationship with the EDL has always been fractious. Some of this might be down to the aforementioned social and economic policy - the BNP were quite lefty in their economic policy, nationalising the railways etc and thus could be seen as direct competitor to the left. The neo-con influence on the EDl meant that whatever scraps of economic or social ideas were expressed were firmly Thatcherite. There was an abortive attempt to create a British Freedom party for about five minutes.

Which brings us onto UKIP. The nationalist street movement has pretty much en masse decided that UKIP is for them. As such they've been waging a campaign of intimidation against anti-UKIP campaigners, especially in Thanet. It really isn't clear to what extent UKIP welcome this - certainly they haven't gone out of their way to condemn it. So now we potentially have a nationalist street movement in alignment with a legal political party, just not under the same banner. 

In one sense the challenge should be easier - UKIP do not come at us from the left, their economic and social policies are firmly neo-liberal. Is the left up to the job?


----------



## sim667 (May 8, 2015)

I just had to come in and let everyone know thats its official! According to an EDL supporter the UAF is a socialist organisation, backed up by Islamists, funded by the Labour Government.

How have I been so foolish to never realise this before?


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## Maharani (May 10, 2015)

How was today's protest? 

Fuck loads of police. Tiny number of EDL and a good turn out for UAF by the looks of it.


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## Fingers (May 10, 2015)

well, I met TopCat and @pickmansmodel this afternoon but only found out who they were after I left.  i was the fella with sunglasses who was with Steve


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## Fingers (May 10, 2015)

Maharani said:


> How was today's protest?
> 
> Fuck loads of police. Tiny number of EDL and a good turn out for UAF by the looks of it.



The EDL had about 7 coppers per EDLer. it was bonkers but they looked a sorry state. i am not sure how many went on the Unity demo as we got stuck into the actual march, then got kettled and did not make it to the unity so went to the pub. I got a bottle in the head by a fash thrown empty beer vessel, stamped on by a police horse and another cop horse pissed on my shoes. All in a good day's work but Londoners won today... as always....


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## Thunderfist (May 10, 2015)

Maharani said:


> How was today's protest?.



It was o.k but it could have been so much better. Piss poor EDL turn out (they got half the numbers of Britain First in Dudley on the same day which might give us some idea of which way the wind is blowing) and hundreds of cops. 

However they did complete their march route and the cops more or less controlled the day. There were two call outs one, by the UAF for the end of the march route and one by the AFN for the beginning. So we were split from the start, meaning that a critical mass was never achieved. It wasn't clear how many locals had heard about the the call-out for Blackhorse Rd station ( the beginning) so opposition there was a small black bloc that got shoved up the road by the cops. By the time the EDL marched around forty or fifty locals had made their way to the start in any case but without everyone being in one place and one time we weren't going to frustrate the cops plans.


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## Maharani (May 10, 2015)

Fingers said:


> The EDL had about 7 coppers per EDLer. it was bonkers but they looked a sorry state. i am not sure how many went on the Unity demo as we got stuck into the actual march, then got kettled and did not make it to the unity so went to the pub. I got a bottle in the head by a fash thrown empty beer vessel, stamped on by a police horse and another cop horse pissed on my shoes. All in a good day's work but Londoners won today... as always....


Bloody hell Fingers, how long did the bastards kettle you for?

Shame there weren't the numbers as Thunderfist said. Looking at some YouTube footage and it doesn't look so bad...UAFers were heard visible and sounded strong.


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## Fingers (May 10, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Bloody hell Fingers, how long did the bastards kettle you for?
> 
> Shame there weren't the numbers as Thunderfist said. Looking at some YouTube footage and it doesn't look so bad...UAFers were heard visible and sounded strong.



Only for about ten minutes.  It was a bit of a half arsed kettle and we escaped out of the back and tried to find another route through the back streets but the police had it covered and they had the helicopter over head so we were always going to be beaten.


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2015)

Maharani said:


> UAFers were heard visible and sounded strong.


they always give that impression but the illusion of strength never borne out in reality.

btw it is impossible for someone to be heard visible.


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## Maharani (May 10, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> they always give that impression but the illusion of strength never borne out in reality.
> 
> btw it is impossible for someone to be heard visible.


I missed a comma your honour!


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## Spanky Longhorn (May 10, 2015)

It's unfortunate the two separate call outs meant it looked like there were less people against than there actually were - but you're never going to get a majority on a militant black block type action after all. I saw the whole thing and would estimate a peak of about 800 at the Townhall rally, lots of normal people as well as the usual suspects from the far left, Labour, and faith communities. It looked to me like there were at least another 200 people moving up and down Blackhorse Rd showing their opposition to the EDL, a mix of black block, random locals and others.

Did speak to a shop keeper who was confused by the presence of Black and Asian people with the EDL, confusion solved when we realised he thought the Anarcho grouping was the EDL 

Total disaster for the EDL they looked a sorry bunch indeed. (I think the up for it locals and the black block did potentially have the numbers to stop the march halfway along Blackhorse Rd, but not the coordination and they weren't all in the same place at once, which isn't a criticism)


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## Wilf (May 10, 2015)

Fingers said:


> . I got a bottle in the head by a fash thrown empty beer vessel, stamped on by a police horse and another cop horse pissed on my shoes. All in a good day's work but Londoners won today... as always....


At the Blackpool bash a couple of weeks ago, I just got shoved several times by a pig, then forced into the kettle. Worst bit though was the half gallon of police horse slavver I then got on me coat.


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## Fingers (May 10, 2015)

Wilf said:


> At the Blackpool bash a couple of weeks ago, I just got shoved several times by a pig, then forced into the kettle. Worst bit though was the half gallon of police horse slavver I then got on me coat.



I have great police horse piss action photo from yesterday... give me a minute and i will post it up.  The EDL had to stagger through it...


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## Fingers (May 10, 2015)




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## malatesta32 (May 11, 2015)

nice one all. plod would have been planning this for sometime so not a bad effort by any means. the EDL are clueless and refuse to recognise that they have no leadership, credibility or point. and as for watlhamstow 3: 'As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly.' give it up.


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## malatesta32 (May 11, 2015)

plod pony piss porn.


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## Pickman's model (May 11, 2015)

Fingers said:


> I have great police horse piss action photo from yesterday... give me a minute and i will post it up.  The EDL had to stagger through it...


'wade through it' surely


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## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

Wilf said:


> At the Blackpool bash a couple of weeks ago, I just got shoved several times by a pig, then forced into the kettle. Worst bit though was the half gallon of police horse slavver I then got on me coat.


People pay good money for that and horse piss on their feet Fingers...


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## malatesta32 (May 11, 2015)

idiots. on VE Day.


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## Wilf (May 11, 2015)

Maharani said:


> People pay good money for that and horse piss on their feet Fingers...


"I don't pay my taxes for horse sputum to get wasted on unwashed anarchists...."


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## Maharani (May 11, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> idiots. on VE Day. View attachment 71371


Arghhh, bastard wearing a bloody good jacket, showing up the skinheads...

Not making light BTW, I hate the rascits stealing styles of anti racists.


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## malatesta32 (May 12, 2015)

Walthamstow Guardian: 
http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne...e_man_not_one_of_ours___claims_EDL/?ref=fbshr
Mal: 
https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/edl-nazi-salutes/


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## Joe Reilly (May 12, 2015)

[/QUOTE]


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## belboid (May 12, 2015)

Joe Reilly said:


> In reality once they took the political decision to follow in the BNP's footsteps and orientate to working class communities, social and economic policies, as they had to, followed suit.


fucking delusional


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## Joe Reilly (May 12, 2015)

belboid said:


> fucking delusional



If you bothered to read the exchanges on the thread with regard to UKIP, rather than reflex posting literally a minute after me, you'd realise that's it not really your cup of tea.


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## belboid (May 12, 2015)

If you bothered writing posts that made sense....


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## Red Storm (May 12, 2015)

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/paedophile-attacked-vigilante-gang-after-9242828

NWI lure a peado.


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## josef1878 (May 12, 2015)

Red Storm said:


> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/paedophile-attacked-vigilante-gang-after-9242828
> 
> NWI lure a peado.



They did the same thing a few miles away in Atherton around the same time.


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## ddraig (May 12, 2015)

SEA 
priceless, cringey and funny


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## malatesta32 (May 13, 2015)

Red Storm said:


> http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/paedophile-attacked-vigilante-gang-after-9242828
> 
> NWI lure a peado.


this has happened a few times now. good idea! expose someone then they can run home and destroy any evidence before plod gets in on it. eejits. like that fucken stinson hunter stuff ...


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## laptop (May 13, 2015)

ddraig said:


> SEA
> priceless, cringey and funny




All that fire fetish. Are they Zoroastrians, like Freddie, then?


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## BigMoaner (May 13, 2015)

ddraig said:


> SEA
> priceless, cringey and funny



these are the people that Labour lost.


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## jakethesnake (May 13, 2015)

I love that everyone gets to hold a flag. This is where the left have been going wrong imo.


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## Mr.Bishie (May 13, 2015)




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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> these are the people that Labour lost.


the sea more the people time forgot and then went back for only to find they'd been all messed up in the meantime and were then put in a cupboard.


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## Wilf (May 13, 2015)

ddraig said:


> SEA
> priceless, cringey and funny



Gorillas in the Mist.


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## Blagsta (May 13, 2015)

ddraig said:


> SEA
> priceless, cringey and funny




Jesus, is that a spoof?


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## steeplejack (May 13, 2015)

ddraig said:


> SEA
> priceless, cringey and funny




what a bunch of utter trumpets 

more flags than members.


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## fiannanahalba (May 14, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> this has happened a few times now. good idea! expose someone then they can run home and destroy any evidence before plod gets in on it. eejits. like that fucken stinson hunter stuff ...


Stinson has had a few beasts put away and I think NWI has scored good propaganda here.


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## malatesta32 (May 14, 2015)

fiannanahalba said:


> Stinson has had a few beasts put away and I think NWI has scored good propaganda here.



NWI robbed one nonce of his train tickets, phone and headphones and tried to blackmail another over 250 quid, 2 were arrested for assault. stinson is dodgy, admires tommy robinson (ive been told) and is selling t-shirts etc (like tommy turning a crusade into a business) and only came clean about his criminal record when he was exposed. he said 'i was going to admit it soon.' like he only started to inform plod when he was pulled up on it on tv. dodgy fucker.


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## Spanky Longhorn (May 14, 2015)

the SEA are amazing, my new favourite far right group, replacing National Action


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## The39thStep (May 14, 2015)

laptop said:


> All that fire fetish. Are they Zoroastrians, like Freddie, then?


Trying to emulate Clapton Ultras


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> the SEA are amazing, my new favourite far right group, replacing National Action


they're real action men, a load of swivel-eyed loons


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## Thunderfist (May 14, 2015)

fiannanahalba said:


> Stinson has had a few beasts put away and I think NWI has scored good propaganda here.


 The 'nonce-busting'; seems to have gained favour amongst the far-right splinter groups (Pie & Mash, NWI etc) since they've been exposed on the pavement a few times. In some ways it signals a welcome step away from far-right organising. 

It's a strange hobby - hanging around on the internet pretending to be a 14 year old girl all day.


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## Citizen66 (May 14, 2015)

Wilf said:


> "I don't pay my taxes for horse sputum to get wasted on unwashed anarchists...."



If they don't watch out they'll end up in hoss pittle.


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## The39thStep (May 14, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> The 'nonce-busting'; seems to have gained favour amongst the far-right splinter groups (Pie & Mash, NWI etc) since they've been exposed on the pavement a few times. In some ways it signals a welcome step away from far-right organising.
> 
> It's a strange hobby - hanging around on the internet pretending to be a 14 year old girl all day.



It is but child safety is a huge concern in working class communities .


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## Chick Webb (May 14, 2015)

It's similar to when right groups occasionally decide to provide food to the poor.  They're doing it for vanity/propaganda reasons and know that they're unlikely to be criticised for it, or if they are, they can make more propaganda out of that.  They'll obviously have no discernible effect on child abuse, and they'll eventually get sick of it, so let them off.


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## Thunderfist (May 14, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> It is but child safety is a huge concern in working class communities .


 It's hard to see how you could become unpopular being anti-paedo in any community. It's gutting that there was and is no organised feminist response to the recent grooming scandals. They are a story of corruption, abuse of power and disregard for young working class lives. The left's response has been muted.  That's left the door wide open to the far-right.


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> It's hard to see how you could become unpopular being anti-paedo in any community. It's gutting that there was and is no organised feminist response to the recent grooming scandals. They are a story of corruption, abuse of power and disregard for young working class lives. The left's response has been muted.  That's left the door wide open to the far-right.


yeh but in a way this plays into an artificial narrative - that children at risk primarily from o/s the family. my understanding is, and please correct me if i'm wrong, that the majority of abuse within families, the greater threat from the abuser with few victims than the gang with scores or hundreds of victims.


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## Thunderfist (May 14, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but in a way this plays into an artificial narrative - that children at risk primarily from o/s the family. my understanding is, and please correct me if i'm wrong, that the majority of abuse within families, the greater threat from the abuser with few victims than the gang with scores or hundreds of victims.



Possibly entirely true, although the no doubt some of those caught in this cycle of abuse started by being abused in the home. However this was organised abuse that relied on a blind eye being turned by authority. Bent cops, dodgy councillors etc


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Possibly entirely true, although the no doubt some of those caught in this cycle of abuse started by being abused in the home. However this was organised abuse that relied on a blind eye being turned by authority. Bent cops, dodgy councillors etc


yeh i entirely agree it abhorrent, that it shows how flimsy the system is and how little working class people are believed when they complain of abuse; among other things. but the upshot of it all will be fewer people being allowed the opportunity to socialise and grow as teenagers for fear of these gangs, they'll be kept indoors - breeding another load of problems as time passes.


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## Thunderfist (May 14, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh i entirely agree it abhorrent, that it shows how flimsy the system is and how little working class people are believed when they complain of abuse; among other things. but the upshot of it all will be fewer people being allowed the opportunity to socialise and grow as teenagers for fear of these gangs, they'll be kept indoors - breeding another load of problems as time passes.


 I haven't read all the reports/inquiries so I'm commenting from a position of ignorance but I thought the typical victim/survivor of these gangs was someone who no-one gave a fuck who they were out with or where they were at four in the morning.


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## Pickman's model (May 14, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I haven't read all the reports/inquiries so I'm commenting from a position of ignorance but I thought the typical victim/survivor of these gangs was someone who no-one gave a fuck who they were out with or where they were at four in the morning.


1) that's true, and their complaints weren't believed; but

2) a lot of other parents will doubtless maintain an even closer eye on their children to prevent anything happening to them. this would not be a new thing but an exacerbation of an existing one.


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## The Flying Pig (May 14, 2015)

Yeh yeh ! really funny unless of course you live dann Thames estuary way! Oh and carry on takin the piss on the Essex forum.
I guess you hipsters will be trimmin yer beards and yer gills will be attakin workin class scumbags this weekend. Enjoy yerselves!


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## Kev Scott LTJ (May 14, 2015)

I don't have a beard?
Or live down the Thames Estuary

Come to think of it, I think I have lungs, not gills..... and my lungs will be attacking nowt but my poxy footie team this weekend!

WTF?


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## fiannanahalba (May 14, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> NWI robbed one nonce of his train tickets, phone and headphones and tried to blackmail another over 250 quid, 2 were arrested for assault. stinson is dodgy, admires tommy robinson (ive been told) and is selling t-shirts etc (like tommy turning a crusade into a business) and only came clean about his criminal record when he was exposed. he said 'i was going to admit it soon.' like he only started to inform plod when he was pulled up on it on tv. dodgy fucker.


I enjoyed his documentary. Seemed a bit damaged by life but heart in the right place re the beasts and his methods were effective and quite pacifist. Of course the criminal record is no big deal in terms of how common that is. At least one in three working class men have a record. I've got one, I'm sure you have one as well comrade.


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## malatesta32 (May 15, 2015)

fiannanahalba said:


> I enjoyed his documentary. Seemed a bit damaged by life but heart in the right place re the beasts and his methods were effective and quite pacifist. Of course the criminal record is no big deal in terms of how common that is. At least one in three working class men have a record. I've got one, I'm sure you have one as well comrade.



Crivvens! how dare you insinuate that i have been a member of the criminal classes! (true tho). the point was that he changed his name, and only started liaising with plod or admitting his past when he was 'exposed.' the merchandising thing is pretty dodgy.


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## Citizen66 (May 15, 2015)

I'm a bit neutral on it. Im not a fan of people electing themselves as cops, especially if they're generally of low moral fibre themselves. I don't have much sympathy for twats who prey on children though. Plenty of those types show up in far right groups. Maybe their investigations should be closer to home?


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## malatesta32 (May 15, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm a bit neutral on it. Im not a fan of people electing themselves as cops, especially if they're generally of low moral fibre themselves. I don't have much sympathy for twats who prey on children though. Plenty of those types show up in far right groups. Maybe their investigations should be closer to home?



i think this is the point with the stinson thing. he had to disguise his dodgy past as although it doesnt equate in anyway with the people he targets he's hardly a moral man mountain. as for fash nonces this is depressingly updated every couple of weeks or so. new 1 coming up soon: 
https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2015/04/12/updated-sex-offenders-list/


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## malatesta32 (May 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm a bit neutral on it. Im not a fan of people electing themselves as cops, especially if they're generally of low moral fibre themselves. I don't have much sympathy for twats who prey on children though. Plenty of those types show up in far right groups. Maybe their investigations should be closer to home?



http://www.wigantoday.net/news/local/four-men-respond-to-appeal-over-mugging-1-7262322


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## Citizen66 (May 16, 2015)

They're setting up a crime (technically it is entrapment) in order to legitimise their own offending. I don't see this as much different than the US couple who left their garage door open in order to gun down some kid who strayed into it (from the vigilantism pov, obviously I'm not defending the nonce here).


----------



## treelover (May 16, 2015)

steeplejack said:


> what a bunch of utter trumpets
> 
> more flags than members.




So why a massive thread, austerity is the issue now.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> So why a massive thread, austerity is the issue now.



are we only allowed to organise about 1 issue? yes austerity is the main issue, but there are still places where the far right are prominent, ie, parts of the north west and north east and need dealing with.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 17, 2015)

although this does illustrate treelover's point: hundreds on anti-austerity demo in sheff, 60 fash in rotherham not helping the abuse scandal:
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local...trations-in-sheffield-and-rotherham-1-7264403


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## Thunderfist (May 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> So why a massive thread, austerity is the issue now.



In actual fact I'd disagree - austerity is an important issue but climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us. Combatting ultra-nationalism is important because it offers one set of plausible (but utterly wrong answers) to the crises with which we are faced. Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.


----------



## butchersapron (May 17, 2015)

Brighton chummy


----------



## Thunderfist (May 17, 2015)

Bristol bookclub warrior.


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## The39thStep (May 17, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> In actual fact I'd disagree - austerity is an important issue but climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us. Combatting ultra-nationalism is important because it offers one set of plausible (but utterly wrong answers) to the crises with which we are faced. Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.



What about relating to what the working class see as the important issues and the main  crisis rather than your own hobby horse?


----------



## Thunderfist (May 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> What about relating to what the working class see as the important issues and the main  crisis rather than your own hobby horse?



How about you go and find out what the 'working class' think are the important issues and start from there? So many people on here have all the answers as far as the proletariat are concerned and yet for some unfathomable reason politically speaking don't have so much as a pot to piss in.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 17, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> How about you go and find out what the 'working class' think are the important issues and start from there? So many people on here have all the answers as far as the proletariat are concerned and yet for some unfathomable reason politically speaking don't have so much as a pot to piss in.



Names?


----------



## Joe Reilly (May 17, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.



For the liberal left: 
Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about neo-liberalism rather than immigration.


----------



## The39thStep (May 17, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> How about you go and find out what the 'working class' think are the important issues and start from there? So many people on here have all the answers as far as the proletariat are concerned and yet for some unfathomable reason politically speaking don't have so much as a pot to piss in.



The first sentence describes what the difference is between being pro working class and being a lefty. The IWCA model had at its key what the issues were facing the local working class community.The left bring their own agenda and try and win the working class to it. Which pot would you rather piss in?


----------



## The Black Hand (May 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> The first sentence describes what the difference is between being pro working class and being a lefty. The IWCA model had at its key what the issues were facing the local working class community.The left bring their own agenda and try and win the working class to it. Which pot would you rather piss in?



Am I right in saying that the IWCA don't exist anymore?

The 'class' is all over the place, so I'm not convinced by getting the blanket and throwing it over the puddle for 'the working class' - it's ALL process, if you aren't having a dialogue its meaningless, however similar tunes repeated ad nauseum is sterile...


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## Citizen66 (May 17, 2015)

The grande finale.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 17, 2015)

My money is on Thunderfist.


----------



## The39thStep (May 18, 2015)

The Black Hand said:


> Am I right in saying that the IWCA don't exist anymore?
> 
> The 'class' is all over the place, so I'm not convinced by getting the blanket and throwing it over the puddle for 'the working class' - it's ALL process, if you aren't having a dialogue its meaningless, however similar tunes repeated ad nauseum is sterile...


 morning saviour


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> What about relating to what the working class see as the important issues and the main  crisis rather than your own hobby horse?



Correct me if I'm wrong but I read this as you saying that you have a mandate to speak for the working class - I'm just wondering where that mandate came from and  what mechanisms you have in place (now, not a quarter of a century ago) to respond to your constituency?


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## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but I read this as you saying that you have a mandate to speak for the working class - I'm just wondering where that mandate came from and  what mechanisms you have in place (now, not a quarter of a century ago) to respond to your constituency?



I read that as the working class having a mandate to speak for the working class, and me having a responsibility to listen and learn.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> I read that as the working class having a mandate to speak for the working class, and me having a responsibility to listen and learn.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice



So you're not part of the working class?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> So you're not part of the working class?



1. I am dependent on selling my labour power; so the answer is yes.

2. I am an academic with good job security and earnings, some managerial responsibilities and a role in reproducing labour; so the answer is no.

3. I don't presume to speak for anybody, unlike yourself; 'climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us [the working class?]' .

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

I only speak for myself - that's just my analysis. By 'us' in a climate change context I think I'm talking about a species not a class.We are already in the middle of the greatest forced migration since 1945 - it is of course a very complicated phenomenon, but resource wars and climate change are very important factors. Just one example is http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/WCAS-D-13-00059.1.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I only speak for myself - that's just my analysis. By 'us' in a climate change context I think I'm talking about a species not a class.We are already in the middle of the greatest forced migration since 1945 - it is of course a very complicated phenomenon, but resource wars and climate change are very important factors. Just one example is http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/WCAS-D-13-00059.1.



You say you only speak for yourself and then jump straight into setting priorities for the whole human race; you can see the all too apparent contradiction can't you?

Another approach could be to find out what working class people, where they live and where they work, think needs fixing. Then try to work with them to develop fixes which defend and promote principles such as freedom, solidarity, equality and sustainability.

Do you not think that this sort of activity might gain greater purchase than telling people what the 'main crisis' is? We - that is those of us who claim to be pro-working class - might even end up having something better than 'a pot to piss in'.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

If you believe the greatest threat facing humanity - and thus the working class- is climate change that will be irreversible within 30 years, then there is surely only one campaign that you could be involved in, whether that is recognised by the wider class or not.

And what kind of answer you get when asking people what needs fixing depends very much on how you ask it. Thus we see peoples priorities being very different when asked the same question for local or national elections


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> The first sentence describes what the difference is between being pro working class and being a lefty. The IWCA model had at its key what the issues were facing the local working class community.The left bring their own agenda and try and win the working class to it. Which pot would you rather piss in?


which pot would he rather drink from?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

And is it half full or half empty?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> In actual fact I'd disagree - austerity is an important issue but climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us. Combatting ultra-nationalism is important because it offers one set of plausible (but utterly wrong answers) to the crises with which we are faced. Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.


i take it you've wilfully ignored the thread about people who have killed themselves because of austerity. i suppose you aren't too fussed about people needing to use food banks, nor about people losing their jobs because of the government's austerity policies. for a lot of people austerity and combating it is a more immediate struggle than worrying about the effects of climate change, which are probably a bit further off than next month, next week or indeed tomorrow. i thought you were one of those clapton fans who so likes to through their weight about. perhaps you could engage brain before farting about what the most important issues are, because the most PRESSING issues are austerity and the divides in the working class it fosters and exacerbates: and then, being as it isn't going to kill us all next week, climate change. in your job - i assume you've got one - do you never have to prioritise your work?


----------



## newbie (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> through their weight about.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> *If you believe the greatest threat facing humanity - and thus the working class- is climate change that will be irreversible within 30 years, then there is surely only one campaign that you could be involved in, whether that is recognised by the wider class or not.*
> 
> And what kind of answer you get when asking people what needs fixing depends very much on how you ask it. Thus we see peoples priorities being very different when asked the same question for local or national elections



Do you believe it? If so what do you suggest can practically be done, which will engage people where they are? If not; why not?

As for how you ask the question, of course you're right. Given the current weakness of pro-working class politics, I'd be inclined to ask questions with a smaller/local/specific focus rather than ones couched in large/global/general terms.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Tell the working class to get on their bikes and put breeze blocks in their cisterns.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

newbie said:


>


thank you for revealing your inner pedant


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

newbie said:


>


thank you for revealing your inner pedant


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Given the current weakness of pro-working class politics, I'd be inclined to ask questions with a smaller/local/specific focus rather than ones couched in large/global/general terms.


which, if you believe that the world has less than 30 years before it is fucked, is frankly worthless. You may get your street tidied up, but the planet would still be fucked,  including your street.


----------



## CNT36 (May 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> which, if you believe that the world has less than 30 years before it is fucked, is frankly worthless. You may get your street tidied up, but the planet would still be fucked,  including your street.


 What do you think the solution to the climate crisis is? What action needs to be taken? By whom?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Sell papers, build the party.


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> What do you think the solution to the climate crisis is? What action needs to be taken? By whom?


Socialism. But if we need it in the next thirty years, we are fucked.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

Do you really think the working class are only concerned with litter? I think there's a whole lot more going on than that.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. what about the other parts of my post you chose not to respond to?


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Do you really think the working class are only concerned with litter? I think there's a whole lot more going on than that.


No.  But they are irrelevant if you think the world is about to end. 



> p.s. what about the other parts of my post you chose not to respond to?


They weren't relevant to the point I was making. 

Your argument is a bit of a mess, tbh. Ask the class what they want/need, but in such a way as to get the answer you want. Exactly the same as the 'trots' you are meant to be different to. YOU are saying you have the answer - which is to work locally on whatever the issue of the day is. Just like the SWP try and do on a national scale.


----------



## CNT36 (May 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> Socialism. But if we need it in the next thirty years, we are fucked.


Which we're unlikely to get even a hint of while austerity persists. It is unlikely we will get much progress on the environment either while living under the kind of austerity that allows production and environmental degradation to accelerate with all the consequences unequally distributed as much as the benefits are in the opposite direction. Going  back to your earlier post perhaps it is the wrong approach to focus solely on the climate issue when socialism is what's required. There bound up. Even under capitalism a government could choose to end austerity by putting a shit ton into building a renewables based infrastructure, better public transport etcthat would as well as probably improve the climate sitiation help with unemployment , improve growth and all that bollocks. Whether they'd be able to get it done is another question but a strong anti-austerity movement (and hopefully a lot more ambitious than that) possibly with environmental concerns (most people have them but have more immediate needs) would help them push it through against the objections of the vested interests. There's more that can be done than either putting  everything into the climate movement or waiting for full communism to save us.


----------



## Joe Reilly (May 18, 2015)

The Black Hand said:


> Am I right in saying that the IWCA don't exist anymore?



Are you ever right?


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> Which we're unlikely to get even a hint of while austerity persists. It is unlikely we will get much progress on the environment either while living under the kind of austerity that allows production and environmental degradation to accelerate with all the consequences unequally distributed as much as the benefits are in the opposite direction. Going  back to your earlier post perhaps it is the wrong approach to focus solely on the climate issue when socialism is what's required. There bound up. Even under capitalism a government could choose to end austerity by putting a shit ton into building a renewables based infrastructure, better public transport etcthat would as well as probably improve the climate sitiation help with unemployment , improve growth and all that bollocks. Whether they'd be able to get it done is another question but a strong anti-austerity movement (and hopefully a lot more ambitious than that) possibly with environmental concerns (most people have them but have more immediate needs) would help them push it through against the objections of the vested interests. There's more that can be done than either putting  everything into the climate movement or waiting for full communism to save us.


Of course there is.  But you still need to raise the issue, and if you are bound up in a methodology that will mean the issue is ignored, what do you do?  Just go 'oh well, the method is all' or try and argue with people about why your priority should also be there priority?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> No.  But they are irrelevant if you think the world is about to end.
> 
> 
> They weren't relevant to the point I was making.
> ...



1. So again do you think the world is about to end? What you actually think about this is very relevant to the point you were making (i.e. the way you ask questions shapes the answers you'll get); indeed if you definitely think the game will be up in three decades then as you have rightly pointed out you won't be fussing with litter...or maternity leave, or pay claims, or health and safety, or housing stock, or education, or health care...

2. The reason for asking questions on a doable scale, is not because I want there to be local solutions, let alone that all solutions must be local. It is because of what I see as the weak and fragmented character of the working class, its organisations and politics. It is all in little broken pieces which might be able to draw and hold together with the glue of small successes, but which cannot be reconstructed by pushing all the bits into a mold provided by opposition to climate change, or anti-globalisation, or transitional demands, the BRS or _What is to be done_.

On the one hand it is a very pessimistic outlook to take - i.e. let's go for little victories because that is all that is possible - but on the other, the ability to share, learn from and develop such little victories exists as never before.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

1 - No I dont, but if I did, it'd be of clear vital importance to argue for it.  There is actually nothing wrong with arguing for action around what you believe to be the most important issue of the day. Indeed, it is perfectly logical and sensible.

2. your error here is, i believe, shown in the following paragraph - 'that is all that is possible'  That's not something I believe, altho if you start from that point, you will never, go beyond it.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

belboid said:


> 1 - No I dont, but if I did, it'd be of clear vital importance to argue for it.  There is actually nothing wrong with arguing for action around what you believe to be the most important issue of the day. Indeed, it is perfectly logical and sensible.
> 
> 2. your error here is, i believe, shown in the following paragraph - 'that is all that is possible'  That's not something I believe, altho if you start from that point, you will never, go beyond it.



So what more is possible at present; what do you believe is currently the state of working class politics and organisation? 

And why does starting starting with a small victory preclude the gaining of greater ones; indeed outside of the all or nothing world of the SPGB, is there any other way of proceeding?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2015)

WC politics - in the uk at least - is mindnumbingly weak, we all know that.

And, yes, of course you fight for small wins. But it's perfectly possible to do that and fight for big wins as well. You may not succeed, but, A, you might, and B, even when you dont, that joint struggle can help to change peoples minds on a range of issues, and show how individual issues are never really 'individual' issues, but are a systemic failing. Which means you are in a better position to fight the next cause, big or small. 

A|ll of which is somewhat off the point I was originally trying to make, which is that there is nothing fundamentally wrong with arguing with people about you think the key political priorities are, at any given time. You might not convince people, in which case.... well, either you plod on alone or go along with the group, but, whichever you choose, it's still perfectly reasonable to have the argument in the first place.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 18, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Do you believe it? If so what do you suggest can practically be done, which will engage people where they are? If not; why not?
> 
> As for how you ask the question, of course you're right. Given the current weakness of pro-working class politics, I'd be inclined to ask questions with a smaller/local/specific focus rather than ones couched in large/global/general terms.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice



My father (a working class Tory) never had any time for environmental concerns up until he realised just how much of his local coastline was being lost, and that the constant dredging of the sandbanks for sand eels was causing tidal effects. That sort of "turned him on" to the broader picture, as well as making him vociferous about the Tories skimping on maintenance of existing coastal defences.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i take it you've wilfully ignored the thread about people who have killed themselves because of austerity. i suppose you aren't too fussed about people needing to use food banks, nor about people losing their jobs because of the government's austerity policies. for a lot of people austerity and combating it is a more immediate struggle than worrying about the effects of climate change, which are probably a bit further off than next month, next week or indeed tomorrow. i thought you were one of those clapton fans who so likes to through their weight about. perhaps you could engage brain before farting about what the most important issues are, because the most PRESSING issues are austerity and the divides in the working class it fosters and exacerbates: and then, being as it isn't going to kill us all next week, climate change. in your job - i assume you've got one - do you never have to prioritise your work?





Louis MacNeice said:


> Another approach could be to find out what working class people, where they live and where they work, think needs fixing. Then try to work with them to develop fixes which defend and promote principles such as freedom, solidarity, equality and sustainability.



Permit me a moment's dry amusement at coming back from pushing a wheelbarrow around all day to find myself lectured on my disconnect from the working class by an academic and a librarian.  "One of those Clapton fans"? Been sniffing the tippex again?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

was the wheelbarrow empty or full?


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Permit me a moment's dry amusement at coming back from pushing a wheelbarrow around all day to find myself lectured on my disconnect from the working class by an academic and a librarian.  "One of those Clapton fans"? Been sniffing the tippex again?


Gentrification of allotments.


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2015)

What's your critique of librarianship btw?


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2015)

...and what is your wheelbarrow hiding?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Permit me a moment's dry amusement at coming back from pushing a wheelbarrow around all day to find myself lectured on my disconnect from the working class by an academic and a librarian.  "One of those Clapton fans"? Been sniffing the tippex again?


so you don't have to prioritise your work then.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so you don't have to prioritise your work then.



In the sense that I have to go and do it - yes I do. What's your point?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Permit me a moment's dry amusement at coming back from pushing a wheelbarrow around all day to find myself lectured on my disconnect from the working class by an academic and a librarian.  "One of those Clapton fans"? Been sniffing the tippex again?



Which gardening centre were you examining the wheelbarrow in?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Permit me a moment's dry amusement at coming back from pushing a wheelbarrow around all day to find myself lectured on my disconnect from the working class by an academic and a librarian.  "One of those Clapton fans"? Been sniffing the tippex again?



Where have I lectured you on your disconnect from the working class?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> In the sense that I have to go and do it - yes I do. What's your point?


perhaps if you read my post which caused you such amusement you might see. and - as louis says above - i'd be interested if you could point to where i lectured you on this disconnect from the working class.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

Oh lads, you so desperatley want me to be an equal opportunities officer in a radical dance troupe or something don't you?


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2015)

There i was.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Oh lads, you so desperatley want me to be an equal opportunities officer in a radical dance troupe or something don't you?


no, you're quite capable of making an arse of yourself without needing to go to those lengths.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Oh lads, you so desperatley want me to be an equal opportunities officer in a radical dance troupe or something don't you?



Honest would do. And I don't mean about your job.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## butchersapron (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Oh lads, you so desperatley want me to be an equal opportunities officer in a radical dance troupe or something don't you?


Dance manager at the guardian thanks.

Lads.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Oh lads, you so desperatley want me to be an equal opportunities officer in a radical dance troupe or something don't you?



The other week you couldn't tell us your job for fear of it identifying you. Are you the Queen's fucking gardener then?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> The other week you couldn't tell us your job for fear of it identifying you. Are you the Queen's fucking gardener then?


or fucking the queen's gardener...


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

You should have unearthed the offending post by now Pickman's.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

Desperate, desperate. Can't come up with an argument so resorting to silly name calling and a bit of homophobia.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Pun unintended.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Desperate, desperate. Can't come up with an argument so resorting to silly name calling and a bit of homophobia.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> You should have unearthed the offending post by now Pickman's.


on april 14 Thunderfist was very suspicious of the idealised prole who, he said, only exists in the left's imagination. but now he seems to be doing his damndest to portray himself as the horniest handed son of toil here.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Desperate, desperate. Can't come up with an argument so resorting to silly name calling and a bit of homophobia.



Where's the 'bit of homophobia'? 

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Desperate, desperate. Can't come up with an argument so resorting to silly name calling and a bit of homophobia.


homophobia? that's quite an accusation.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Desperate, desperate. Can't come up with an argument so resorting to silly name calling and a bit of homophobia.


incidentally, you're not really in the argument stakes yourself as all you've put up in answer to my post and louis's post is a spot of ad hominem. so why don't you see if you can answer the posts we made earlier, answer the points we've made since and then - maybe - we can move on. as it is you're looking a mite desperate yourself.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

Who started the ad hominem?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> Who started the ad hominem?


and here you go again. nary an argument to be seen.


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

I started with 





Thunderfist said:


> In actual fact I'd disagree - austerity is an important issue but climate change and the global social upheaval that is happening and will follow is the main crisis facing us. Combatting ultra-nationalism is important because it offers one set of plausible (but utterly wrong answers) to the crises with which we are faced. Austerity feeds into their agenda too - only it becomes about immigration rather than neo-liberalism.



and copped this..



butchersapron said:


> Brighton chummy





Pickman's model said:


> i thought you were one of those clapton fans who so likes to through their weight about. perhaps you could engage brain before farting about what the most important issues are, because the most PRESSING issues are austerity and the divides in the working class it fosters and exacerbates: and then, being as it isn't going to kill us all next week, climate change. in your job - i assume you've got one - do you never have to prioritise your work?





butchersapron said:


> Gentrification of allotments.





butchersapron said:


> ...and what is your wheelbarrow hiding?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> I started with
> 
> and copped this..


you seem to have written post 17499 out of history

you're rather reticent about this homophobia you claim to have perceived. where is it?


----------



## Thunderfist (May 18, 2015)

It was hard to read the comment about "fucking the Queens gardener" any other way. To be honest I started off here expecting to have a few constructive conversations. Instead of which, any deviation from the party-line is attacked not by argument but by supposition about the poster's class identity. That's why I've had to point out what I do for a living and where I come from. I actually think it's irrelevant to the points I'm making.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> on april 14 Thunderfist was very suspicious of the idealised prole who, he said, only exists in the left's imagination. but now he seems to be doing his damndest to portray himself as the horniest handed son of toil here.



The files.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> on april 14 Thunderfist was very suspicious of the idealised prole who, he said, only exists in the left's imagination. but now he seems to be doing his damndest to portray himself as the horniest handed son of toil here.



I push wheelbarrows


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

I do


----------



## Nice one (May 18, 2015)

first i thought of this fella






then i thought of this fella


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> It was hard to read the comment about "fucking the Queens gardener" any other way. To be honest I started off here expecting to have a few constructive conversations. Instead of which, any deviation from the party-line is attacked not by argument but by supposition about the poster's class identity. That's why I've had to point out what I do for a living and where I come from. I actually think it's irrelevant to the points I'm making.



Come on TF, I haven't raised any questions about your class identity. I have tried to be straight forward with you answering your questions and you have chosen not to reciprocate; which is fair enough (it's just the internet after all) but it does you no favours when you try to claim the moral high ground as well.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. some people who look after the queen's lawns are women...who'd have thought it!


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> It was hard to read the comment about "fucking the Queens gardener" any other way. To be honest I started off here expecting to have a few constructive conversations. Instead of which, any deviation from the party-line is attacked not by argument but by supposition about the poster's class identity. That's why I've had to point out what I do for a living and where I come from. I actually think it's irrelevant to the points I'm making.



You started with the class identity jibes if you follow the links I kindly provided.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Thunderfist said:


> It was hard to read the comment about "fucking the Queens gardener" any other way.


i asked 'where's the homophobia' not 'post up some auld guff'.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Gardening Is a manly job.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

And the working class push wheel barrows.


----------



## The Black Hand (May 18, 2015)

Joe Reilly said:


> Are you ever right?


Did the IWCA ever exist? It was an ultra leftist fantasy


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Welcome back btw.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

A bit sectarian to dismiss the IWCA though.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Gardening Is a manly job.


especially if you do it up hill


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> especially if you do it up hill


gardeners do it with hoes


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> especially if you do it up hill



It wouldn't make sense to admit to the gas-powered sit-on lawnmower at this stage.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> gardeners do it with hoes



Now that is sexist.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Now that is sexist.


if you say so. but not homophobick.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if you say so. but not homophobick.



Now I'm sexist.


----------



## The Black Hand (May 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> A bit sectarian to dismiss the IWCA though.


I wasn't dismissing them, more pointing out that its only on the virtual fantasy land of U75 that I ever experience them...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Now I'm sexist.


but at least you're not diamond


----------



## Diamond (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> but at least you're not diamond



You're such an obsessive charmer.  Stalking your general past-time or is it a special endeavour just for me?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Diamond said:


> You're such an obsessive charmer.  Stalking your general past-time or is it a special endeavour just for me?


oh fuck off. if anyone's stalking here it's you.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

The Black Hand said:


> I wasn't dismissing them, more pointing out that its only on the virtual fantasy land of U75 that I ever experience them...



And I've never been to Cuba, so what?


----------



## Diamond (May 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> oh fuck off. if anyone's stalking here it's you.



Yep, that's what I spend my hours wondering about.  How to take the sword of jiggery-pokery to Pickman's stalwart shield of truth...

All day, every day.

In any event, I shall exit this threat that you so kindly invited me to join upon so little notice for fear of further derailment.


----------



## Sweet FA (May 18, 2015)

Action starts at 1.20


----------



## Pickman's model (May 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> so what?


reminds me of the anl - the anti-nowhere league


----------



## Citizen66 (May 18, 2015)

This always leads to a pissing contest.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 19, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> A bit sectarian to dismiss the IWCA though.



sectarian? on here ?crivvens!


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 19, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> A bit sectarian to dismiss the IWCA though.


What's wrong with being sectsy?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2015)

lets talk about sects baby


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> lets talk about sects baby


do you think i'm sectsy


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 19, 2015)

IWCA Wanna Sects You Up


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

i'm too sectsy for my shirt


----------



## cesare (May 19, 2015)

Post break-up sects


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 19, 2015)

Consequence-free sects


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 19, 2015)

Sweet FA said:


> Action starts at 1.20



You call _that_ extreme?


----------



## tufty79 (May 19, 2015)

When i get that feeling, i need sects-ual healing.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

tufty79 said:


> When i get that feeling, i need sects-ual healing.


but what you get is sects and violence


----------



## tufty79 (May 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> but what you get is sects and violence


((my life))


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

tufty79 said:


> ((my life))


better than many people's lives, which can only be described as sects and the shitty


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 19, 2015)

Or the agony and the sects-assy


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Or the agony and the sects-assy


there's lots of that in the sects-files.


----------



## Citizen66 (May 19, 2015)

I'm in with the In Sects


----------



## tufty79 (May 19, 2015)

You're sectsy and you know it.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2015)

Sects in an elevator

some of them could fit in one


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2015)

poor sectsual ettiquette


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

sectsy can i


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

i want your sects


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

i want to sects you up


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

sects and candy


----------



## Citizen66 (May 19, 2015)

Sects sects sects that's all you think about.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2015)

you've got _sects in the brain _


----------



## Citizen66 (May 19, 2015)

Women are the fairer sects


----------



## Sweet FA (May 19, 2015)

Enough. We must end this madness and launch the sects bomb.


----------



## CNT36 (May 19, 2015)

Sweet FA said:


> Enough. We must end this madness and launch the sects bomb.


The sects worker's bombs.


----------



## Blagsta (May 19, 2015)

Nick the stripper 
Hideous to the eye


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 19, 2015)

Sects Yule Freedom Coalition (motto: "Christmas Comes Early")


----------



## Blagsta (May 19, 2015)

Blagsta said:


> Nick the stripper
> Hideous to the eye



You'll have to work for this one, bit niche maybe


----------



## Citizen66 (May 19, 2015)

Hong Kong Phooey?


----------



## Citizen66 (May 19, 2015)




----------



## Citizen66 (May 19, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm in with the In Sects



Cockroaches, the lot of them.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (May 20, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> The sects worker's bombs.


Sects bomb, she's my baby yeah!


----------



## mr steev (May 21, 2015)

After the recent EDL and Britain First demos in Dudley there is soon to be another one by the catchily named All Football Fans/Firms March Against Islamisation (AFFFMAI) 

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/05/21/far-right-marchers-on-the-warpath-in-dudley/


----------



## ddraig (May 21, 2015)

Fences are moved on a previous march caption for this pic!





they're barriers!


----------



## ddraig (May 21, 2015)

and surely a misquote/print


> Jerry Langford, who has helped organise a counter demonstration called the UNITY rally, said: “We are against this new protest. The difficult thing is these groups just keep coming.
> 
> “We are exasperated about this as we know the* vast majority of people in Dudley have no truck* with the mosque.
> 
> “There is always a minority who do not agree, but I know a majority do no have a problem.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 22, 2015)

colchester rigby EDL demo updates. 
http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/...o_in_Colchester_town_centre_today/?ref=twtrec


----------



## malatesta32 (May 30, 2015)

usual load of rubbish
https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2015/05/30/fantasy-football-hooligans-silly-salutes/


----------



## cantsin (Jun 4, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> usual load of rubbish
> https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2015/05/30/fantasy-football-hooligans-silly-salutes/



is the 'Celtic Casuals' part of this accurate ? Sounds v unlikely to say the least.....

"Online fantasy football hooligans All Football Firms March Against Muslamificationers are trying to get all the various hooligan mobs to kiss and make-up. Their latest news is that the West Ham ICF and Millwall Bushwackers are going to be holding hands with Leeds yobs and Celtic Casuals in order to end Mosques or something"

( you need to lose that last line in the piece as well surely, really feckin horrible)


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 4, 2015)

_Fragrant_


----------



## Sweet FA (Jun 4, 2015)

_"Has she elegance? Has she fragrance? Would she have, without the strain of this trial, radiance?"_


----------



## Fingers (Jun 5, 2015)

cantsin said:


> is the 'Celtic Casuals' part of this accurate ? Sounds v unlikely to say the least.....
> 
> "Online fantasy football hooligans All Football Firms March Against Muslamificationers are trying to get all the various hooligan mobs to kiss and make-up. Their latest news is that the West Ham ICF and Millwall Bushwackers are going to be holding hands with Leeds yobs and Celtic Casuals in order to end Mosques or something"
> 
> ( you need to lose that last line in the piece as well surely, really feckin horrible)



Oh this is going to go so well. There is hardly a demo goes by without at least a few of them getting drunk and falling out about whose football team is the best or whose 'firm' is the 'hardest'.

It is going to be one almighty punch up.

I agree though, I am not sure the Celtic Casuals will want to be involved in any of this nonsense.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

Sweet FA said:


> _"Has she elegance? Has she fragrance? Would she have, without the strain of this trial, radiance?"_


_Not these slappers, they smell and probably drink pints like men._


----------



## Fedayn (Jun 5, 2015)

cantsin said:


> is the 'Celtic Casuals' part of this accurate ? Sounds v unlikely to say the least.....


 
Not heard anything like this before, given CSC have previously been quite vociferous in opposing SDL/EDL i'd be very surprised.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

crivvens folks! it's a fecken joke! i'm no association soccer fancier but i can assure you ICF, bushwhackers, CCS or Leeds dont give a feck about kevin smith and his fantasy football hooliganism. clearly, my irony is getting rusty.
edit: and thank fuck someone got the 'fragrant' reference.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

Stop saying _crivvens _as well.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> crivvens folks! it's a fecken joke! i'm no association soccer fancier but i can assure you ICF, bushwhackers, CCS or Leeds dont give a feck about kevin smith and his fantasy football hooliganism. clearly, my irony is getting rusty.
> edit: and thank fuck someone got the 'fragrant' reference.


 crivvens has jumped the shark.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> association soccer


 soccer derives from association


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> edit: and thank fuck someone got the 'fragrant' reference.



What was it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> What was it?


i haven't read the previous page. but it is traditionally a reference to mary archer.





> *'Fragrant' Mary Archer*
> During the 1987 libel trial Mary Archer famously took the stand to support her husband.
> The judge was so impressed by her demeanour that he mused why any husband would seek the company of a prostitute when he had Mrs Archer at home.
> Summing up, Mr Justice Caulfield described Mrs Archer as a vision of "elegance, fragrance and radiance".
> Lord Archer won his libel action and was awarded £500,000 damages.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1420403.stm


----------



## ddraig (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> crivvens folks! it's a fecken joke! i'm no association soccer fancier but i can assure you ICF, bushwhackers, CCS or Leeds dont give a feck about kevin smith and his fantasy football hooliganism. clearly, my irony is getting rusty.
> edit: and thank fuck someone got the 'fragrant' reference.


it's really not funny is it and gives people an easy and justified reason to disregard your communiques


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> What was it?



http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/edl-watch.262722/page-588#post-13932920

The judge displaying his high regard for Mary Archer's appearance.

If Mal fancies Gail Speight I guess that's his business, but it seems like a weird thing to bring up on an anti-fascist blog.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i haven't read the previous page. but it is traditionally a reference to mary archer.


Private eye have been using it in a sexist way since well before then - and if not, it's  been used consistently in that way since - why on earth was it used here?  It was used as a generic descriptor for women this idiot doesn't like the look of.

Must be hard walking around deciding whose fragrant and who isn't. Some of those cows  are missing teeth too.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Stop saying _crivvens _as well.



okay, are there any other words you need to censor on the internet? and also, a political train spotter like you should have got the fragrance reference butchers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1420403.stm


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> okay, are there any other words you need to censor on the internet? and also, a political train spotter like you should have got the fragrance reference butchers:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1420403.stm


I think saying you've overdone a crass allusion is not censorship.  Every update of your blog telling people what other people are doing on facebook starts with it.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

look, the whole soccer thing is about some bloke reckoning on 'uniting all firms/fans against islam:
https://afffmai.wordpress.com/
which is obviously impossible given the nature of rivalry between various firms (leeds, man u, milwall/west ham) and it is intended to illustrate the futility of uniting such fractious groups, i.e., who does this kevin smith think he is?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

crivvens boab etc fuck off to clapton


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

OMG the FASCISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

ddraig said:


> it's really not funny is it and gives people an easy and justified reason to disregard your communiques



if you want to get pedantic about it, funny is a subjective term and if someone finds something funny therefore it is funny to them, maybe not funny to everyone, but it is funny in certain situation. i thought folk on here realised the blog is satire? i wouldnt take it so seriously. i dont.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> if you want to get pedantic about it, funny is a subjective term and if someone finds something funny therefore it is funny to them, maybe not funny to everyone, but it is funny in certain situation. i thought folk on here realised the blog is satire? i wouldnt take it so seriously. i dont.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> crivvens boab etc fuck off to clapton



i live in edinburgh butchers and i hate soccer in case you hadnt noticed. but dont worry, i will overlook you missing the 'fragrant' reference .


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> if you want to get pedantic about it, funny is a subjective term and if someone finds something funny therefore it is funny to them, maybe not funny to everyone, but it is funny in certain situation. i thought folk on here realised the blog is satire? i wouldnt take it so seriously. i dont.



Nobody on this thread so far thinks that blog post is funny.

It's clear you don't take that blog very seriously. Perhaps that is why that blog post isn't very good.

Do you _actually_ fancy Gail Speight then?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

dont do a terry eagleton butchers cos you sound like a terry fuckwit. i dont know who the mullet is up there but i am sure his audience thought he was funny. which is probably why he seems to have been on TV.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> if you want to get pedantic about it, funny is a subjective term and if someone finds something funny therefore it is funny to them, maybe not funny to everyone, but it is funny in certain situation. i thought folk on here realised the blog is satire? i wouldnt take it so seriously. i dont.


Where is the satire? It's just you copying stuff from facebook and making a shit sexist or homopohic comment. Where's the original content - the satire?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Nobody on this thread so far thinks that blog post is funny.
> 
> It's clear you don't take that blog very seriously. Perhaps that is why that blog post isn't very good.
> 
> Do you _actually_ fancy Gail Speight then?



dont you realise its satire? and no, if you look at the blog entries on rotherham you can see how i despise gail speight and her political opportunism over the 1400 abuse cases (although not as much as some EDL).


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> dont do a terry eagleton butchers cos you sound like a terry fuckwit. i dont know who the mullet is up there but i am sure his audience thought he was funny. which is probably why he seems to have been on TV.


He's a 70s comedian who just argues that if  someone finds something funny therefore it is funny to them, maybe not funny to everyone, but it is funny in certain situation. 

Crack on with the racist jokes.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Where is the satire? It's just you copying stuff from facebook and making a shit sexist or homopohic comment. Where's the original content - the satire?



homophobic?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> dont you realise its satire? and no, if you look at the blog entries on rotherham you can see how i despise gail speight and her political opportunism over the 1400 abuse cases (although not as much as some EDL).


What on earth do you think satire is?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> homophobic?


Yep. Did you actually remove that stuff then?


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> He's a 70s comedian who just argues that if  someone finds something funny therefore it is funny to them, maybe not funny to everyone, but it is funny in certain situation.
> 
> Crack on with the racist jokes.



yes funny is a subjective term, like tasty, or interesting. it is a matter of personal preference and is not a universal state. whetehr something is politically dodgy is also a matter of taste.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> yes funny is a subjective term, like tasty, or interesting. it is a matter of personal preference and is not a universal state. whetehr something is politically dodgy is also a matter of taste.


Bang on with the chav paki queer bashing then, Is there anyway that subjetive opinion could be set within a wider framework - i.e a commitment  not to be a cunt? You might call it society, or principles. Or anti-fascism.

Clown.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> yes funny is a subjective term, like tasty, or interesting. it is a matter of personal preference and is not a universal state. w*hetehr something is politically dodgy is also a matter of taste*.



The free market in full effect. We're all individual consumers now.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 5, 2015)

i was initially talking about whether something is funny or not. if someone thinks so it is, if someone doesnt, it isnt to them. subject matter is also a matter of personal preference so why would i, an anarchist, make those kinds of jokes? but you overlooked that bit and went for the 'cunt' and 'clown' insults.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> dont you realise its satire? and no, if you look at the blog entries on rotherham you can see how i despise gail speight and her political opportunism over the 1400 abuse cases (although not as much as some EDL).



You despise her, but find her "fragrant"?

Or is that sarcasm (it really isn't satire, mal) in which case you would seem to be taking the piss out of a woman based on her appearance/aroma?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 5, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> i was initially talking about whether something is funny or not. if someone thinks so it is, if someone doesnt, it isnt to them. subject matter is also a matter of personal preference so why would i, an anarchist, make those kinds of jokes? but you overlooked that bit and went for the 'cunt' and 'clown' insults.


What bollocks, you simply copied private eyes sexist use in a non-related issue.

Women are pre-fixed with fragrant in this world of yours?. Or not. Used as abuse. Fuck off and grow up. You smelly cunt.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 5, 2015)

Fedayn said:


> Not heard anything like this before, given CSC have previously been quite vociferous in opposing SDL/EDL i'd be very surprised.



edit : Mal could probably do with being a bit more careful re: dismal attempts at irony, especially when it reads 100 % like straight dis-info .


----------



## David Shirter (Jun 7, 2015)

The EDL and its dedicated opponents: toy politics for a toy society full of ill-dressed people. 'Look at them all standing there shouting at each other. They'll get tired and go to the pub in a bit.'


----------



## Wilf (Jun 7, 2015)

David Shirter said:


> The EDL and its dedicated opponents: toy politics for a toy society full of ill-dressed people. 'Look at them all standing there shouting at each other. They'll get tired and go to the pub in a bit.'


----------



## David Shirter (Jun 7, 2015)

Okay then Wilf, that never actually happens.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 7, 2015)

maybe it's not clear what you're point is
it isn't to me anyway, possible to expand?


----------



## David Shirter (Jun 7, 2015)

ddraig said:


> maybe it's not clear what you're point is
> it isn't to me anyway, possible to expand?


The point is that the EDL and its imbecile project of standing about glugging from cans and gurning is pointless, and that turning up to get angry and shout at them is pointless.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 7, 2015)

what should happen when they assemble, in your opinion?


----------



## David Shirter (Jun 7, 2015)

ddraig said:


> what should happen when they assemble, in your opinion?


 I don't think they should bother assembling as they haven't really got anything coherent or worthwhile to say.


----------



## David Shirter (Jun 7, 2015)

I did go to one of their gigs once though. I was surrounded by some girls and sixth-form hard men singing 'If it wasn't for the coppers you'd be dead,' from 200 yards away, which was mildly amusing.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 7, 2015)

David Shirter said:


> I don't think they should bother assembling as they haven't really got anything coherent or worthwhile to say.


which "they"?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 7, 2015)

David Shirter said:


> I did go to one of their gigs once though. I was surrounded by some girls and sixth-form hard men singing 'If it wasn't for the coppers you'd be dead,' from 200 yards away, which was mildly amusing.


again, whose 'gig'
how can you be surrounded by people 200 yds away?


----------



## David Shirter (Jun 7, 2015)

ddraig said:


> again, whose 'gig'
> how can you be surrounded by people 200 yds away?


I was among the antis on one side of a square. The EDL were 200 yards away near the cenotaph outnumbered by coppers. I had my groceries with me.


----------



## David Shirter (Jun 7, 2015)

ddraig said:


> which "they"?


Both. It's politics without a purpose. Or not really politics at all.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2015)

David Shirter said:


> The point is that the EDL and its imbecile project of standing about glugging from cans and gurning is pointless, and that turning up to get angry and shout at them is pointless.


you're not familiar with brinton, are you?


----------



## David Shirter (Jun 7, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you're not familiar with brinton, are you?


 No. Is he any good? If he is I'll give it a read sometime. If not I won't bother as I'm a bit of a lazy twat.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 7, 2015)

he didn't get banned for the above did he ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2015)

cantsin said:


> he didn't get banned for the above did he ?


editor routinely bans anyone who admits they haven't read maurice brinton


----------



## cantsin (Jun 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> editor routinely bans anyone who admits they haven't read maurice brinton



seems fair enough


----------



## krink (Jun 8, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> editor routinely bans anyone who admits they haven't read maurice brinton



I haven't ready any Brinton but my Mam's maiden name is Branton, will that do?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2015)

krink said:


> I haven't ready any Brinton but my Mam's maiden name is Branton, will that do?


i do hope so  editor can be quite vengeful at times


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2015)

krink said:


> I haven't ready any Brinton but my Mam's maiden name is Branton, will that do?



Your account number? Sort code?


----------



## Citizen66 (Jun 10, 2015)

What's with some event in a yet to be disclosed location happening this Friday?

http://antifascistnetwork.org/2015/...sers-of-does-islam-clash-with-british-values/

Not EDL but Robinson is on the panel.


----------



## krink (Jun 10, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Your account number? Sort code?



That's what I'm hoping for, someone to have a look, take great pity and put some money IN.


----------



## adidaswoody (Jun 11, 2015)

EDL are in Dudley this weekend again if anyone didn't know, they are  APPARENTLY being joined by two football firms who are coming together to help protest (shout and throw stuff) against the mosque being built, for the third or fourth time now.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 12, 2015)

As this seems to be one of the closest threads to a general British far-right watch thread (maybe we need one)

NA being cunts in Brum

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/neo-nazis-attack-cannon-hill-parks-9429177


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 12, 2015)

I also suspect there'll soon be a follow up article about NA members having their collars felt


----------



## Fingers (Jun 13, 2015)

On my way back from the Dudley football firms demo.  It was a very poor showing from the fash (around 250)  Most of them looked like they had not gone to bed for several days, it really was a collection of the dregs of the far right.

The Antifa turnout was disappointing.  There was a handful. Maybe the local Antifa have got bored of watching fash kettled in Dudley and just decided to let them get on with it.


----------



## adidaswoody (Jun 13, 2015)

There's never been a decent antifash turnout in Dudley lol today's was about the same as the last few times, except this time they didn't have a stage and a singer!
Watching the AFFFMAI was fun though  loudmouth lot


----------



## cantsin (Jun 14, 2015)

adidaswoody said:


> There's never been a decent antifash turnout in Dudley lol today's was about the same as the last few times, except this time they didn't have a stage and a singer!
> Watching the AFFFMAI was fun though  loudmouth lot



go to their FB page for lots of  schadenlulz, proper all vs all, including Villa lads winding up Yorky nazis who'd apparently been giving it to a black lad, and duly come unstuck.

"After today i am finished with all this silly protesting, whats it all gonna achieve really? me and my mate have done it for years, we was at the very 1st edl in brum, weve done london for lee rigby, we helped tommy robinson in london set up his speakers and shit, and my mate whos
black born and raised english through and through, follows england away in countrys like poland and ukraine, countries u yorkshire mugs wouldnt go to being white, today in a town we were born and raised, stand there and tell him and me to get off your streets, WTF get off our streets u yorkshire cunts cus i tell you now wolves are comin for ya "

(one response : ) "
"Dont bring a ape with u fucking cock and u think your a lad fuck off cock"


----------



## Fingers (Jun 15, 2015)

Seems Golding, Robinson and Waters pulled out of the debate

http://5pillarsuk.com/2015/06/13/wh...rs-pulled-out-of-ieras-british-values-debate/

Ann Marie Waters was busy doing a speech at the Dudley demo yesterday.

Golding would have got destroyed, Robinson not so much but he is blaming police pressure.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 18, 2015)

So white bloke in a burka arrested with a suspected explosive device in Watford, carrying a Peppa Pig rucksack.  Which far right group do we know that are obsessed with Peppa Pig?  Purely speculation of course....


----------



## ddraig (Jun 18, 2015)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 18, 2015)

ddraig said:


>



i note the town's sole lib dem prominently quoted


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 19, 2015)

Just a heads up - Pulled this off the Pie & Mash Facebook. They are basically a bunch of no mark muppets but they are obviously reading this forum. 

"*** is the idiot who does the MALATESTA blog . A pathetic attempt to scare us but when he posts on the URBAN 75 blog he gets a regular slating from another lefty going by the name of BUTCHERS APRON who also thinks our *** is a twat. He denies this and tries to tell people that butchers apron is himself. In that case then *** should seek medical help , arguing with yourself is very strange to say the least. Oh *** don't you just love us."


----------



## intersol32 (Jun 20, 2015)

Red Sky said:


> Just a heads up - Pulled this off the Pie & Mash Facebook. They are basically a bunch of no mark muppets but they are obviously reading this forum.
> 
> "*** is the idiot who does the MALATESTA blog . A pathetic attempt to scare us but when he posts on the URBAN 75 blog he gets a regular slating from another lefty going by the name of BUTCHERS APRON who also thinks our *** is a twat. He denies this and tries to tell people that butchers apron is himself. In that case then *** should seek medical help , arguing with yourself is very strange to say the least. Oh *** don't you just love us."



Hey Red Sky. Most of us are aware that the idiots like to read over various lefty forums. On occasion they'll sometimes post on here too. At the end of the day most of it can be filed under 'playground bullshit'. If Mal and Butchers have an exchange of views, I don't think it's going to be such a big revelation.

"someone (username) thinks so-and-so (username) is a twat" - this is what internet dwellers and deluded EDL types consider "intelligence gathering" these days.

I'm sure the majority of posters on here aren't daft enough to put up anything that'll seriously compromise anyone (or anything).

Unlike the Fash websites and FB profiles, which seem to be coming down with loose talk and name dropping.

I'm sure Malatesta has rattled their cages with his EDL/BNP Nonce list, which to what I can see, is far more revelatory and disturbing than the Fash taking a gander at Urban or Indymedia etc.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2015)

the nonce list has been linked to from various places, it shuts them up and they NEVER comment on it. it is very embarrassing to show proof of crime details, far right links and photos.
edit : NWI incorrect info dept. 'malatesta is a well known anti fash he runs various blogs, he also goes by the name ***** you will see him on various anti fash pages... and he's a police informer.'


----------



## Fingers (Jun 22, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> the nonce list has been linked to from various places, it shuts them up and they NEVER comment on it. it is very embarrassing to show proof of crime details, far right links and photos.
> edit : NWI incorrect info dept. 'malatesta is a well known anti fash he runs various blogs, he also goes by the name ***** you will see him on various anti fash pages... and he's a police informer.'



Get that pencil sharpened, a certain court case in a north west seaside town should be concluding soon


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 22, 2015)

how depressingly frequent these are.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 25, 2015)

National Action's Zack Davies guilty of attempted murder.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider/whose-hero-now-is-zack-davies-4514


----------



## ddraig (Jun 25, 2015)

good
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/mold-tesco-attack-trial-zack-9524001


----------



## Fingers (Jun 25, 2015)

One thing I have learnt today, when the press report that 'the sentencee showed no signs of emotion', it is usually because there is little doubt that they are going to get a guilty and they have been doped up to the max in preparation for a) getting 25+ banged up or b) stop them kicking off when the 25 year + is metered out


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 25, 2015)

Fingers said:


> One thing I have learnt today, when the press report that 'the sentencee showed no signs of emotion', it is usually because there is little doubt that they are going to get a guilty and they have been doped up to the max in preparation for a) getting 25+ banged up or b) stop them kicking off when the 25 year + is metered out


geezah


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2015)

Fingers said:


> One thing I have learnt today, when the press report that 'the sentencee showed no signs of emotion', it is usually because there is little doubt that they are going to get a guilty and they have been doped up to the max in preparation for a) getting 25+ banged up or b) stop them kicking off when the 25 year + is metered out



it can also be because long stretches like that don't register straight away. If someone says 'you are going to jail for three months' you might just be pissed off, you had tickets to x or plans for y. But decades? Who thinks that long term.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 25, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> it can also be because long stretches like that don't register straight away. If someone says 'you are going to jail for three months' you might just be pissed off, you had tickets to x or plans for y. But decades? Who thinks that long term.


the chinese and vietnamese, apparently


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 26, 2015)

Bonehead gets nicked by the Old Bill.
http://news.met.police.uk/news/arre...end_list&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgrid


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 27, 2015)

Judicial slapdown for BF:








All well and good until they make it a hate crime to challenge corporate interests and use similar methods/legislation against non-racist protests and publicity.


----------



## tony.c (Jun 27, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Bonehead gets nicked by the Old Bill.
> http://news.met.police.uk/news/arre...end_list&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sendgrid


Seems he was inviting arrest with anti-Semitic cartoon blog posts. The prat must like prison food.
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/138450/police-make-arrest-over-hate-blog-post


----------



## Serotonin (Jun 28, 2015)

He just likes attention


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 28, 2015)

Serotonin said:


> He just likes attention



Doesn't quite get the attention he so deserves though - like a pick axe in his fucking head.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 28, 2015)

Oh he will have plenty of attention tomorrow morning, plenty of attention that he will not like one little bit.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 28, 2015)

ddraig said:


>




was there anything more on this bloke? it seemed to have disappeared off the newswires.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 4, 2015)

Pisspoor Infidels turnout in Stockton. I wasn't in a great place to see, but looked like about 30.  Not a massive mobilisation against them but certainly more than they got.  Whole thing was surreal, with a sunny day and loads of families and kids out in the town - it was Pirate Day in Stockton! My idea was that we should all go dressed as Somalian Pirates, but that didn't get taken up for some reason.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 4, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> was there anything more on this bloke? it seemed to have disappeared off the newswires.


no further action...
police satisfied not a hate crime!
http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/ne...ied__bomb_scare__was_not_hate_crime_related_/


> Friday 19 June 2015
> 
> The bomb scare in Watford is not believed to be a hate crime, the Watford Observer can reveal.
> 
> ...


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2015)

national EDL demo - 200
http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk...s-march-through-sheffield-s-streets-1-7342105
stockton infidels - (edit) 70-100
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/t...otest-counter-far-right-demonstration-9586894
nobjob nazis - 21
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...strators-at-central-london-protest.1436015687


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 4, 2015)

'We strongly emphasise that our only wish is to peacefully protest about these serious social issues' but ...


----------



## Wilf (Jul 4, 2015)

Actually malatesta32 if I'm the source of the 30 figure for Stockton, I'm less certain now. Hung around for a while, found the fash were marching an hour later, went the pub... wandered back to the S14 area and saw they were going past. Looked like 30, but I must have missed some. I've seen others on fb who got closer saying 70-100.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 6, 2015)

Sheffield...


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jul 6, 2015)

Fingers said:


> Sheffield...
> 
> View attachment 73714


A message to our Aussie supporters?


----------



## tony.c (Jul 14, 2015)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...guilty-of-murdering-school-girl-10382489.html


----------



## tony.c (Jul 14, 2015)

Apologies for posting above Independent article without context, but was having difficulties downloading it.
The Independent is the only newspaper or news website that mentioned he had said to police that he is a neo-Nazi.
He is a bnp/edl supporter who supported the edl's 'anti-paedophile' protest in Blackpool.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 14, 2015)

yes, hardly mentioned anywhere else!


----------



## tony.c (Jul 14, 2015)

http://edlcriminals.com/2015/07/10/robert-ewing-and-his-far-right-links


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 14, 2015)

The far right had previously tried to pin that murder on Muslim grooming gangs too.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 19, 2015)

neo-nazis in rotherham. 150 present, 10 arrests. EDL denying they had anything to do with it. 
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/video-arrests-made-at-rotherham-edl-march-1-7366004


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 21, 2015)

More EDL sex offenders:
https://malatesta32.wordpress.com/2015/06/11/updated-far-right-sex-offenders/


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2015)

robinson back in jail facing more time. on protection after someone planned to chuck hot water on him:
http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/cr...-more-jail-time-over-mortgage-fraud-1-6864530


----------



## malatesta32 (Jul 23, 2015)

apparently on the neo-nazi rotherham march the EDL kicked off with the National Action teenies who came off worst. the neo-nazis had a go at an EDL blokes mixed race girlfriend unsurprisingly and the NA stated that 'nobody in National Action has even been charged with a crime' forgetting the small matter of an attempted murder in a welsh tescos. why cant they all get along? 
http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/07/23/edl-and-national-action-fight-it-out-at-rotherham-demo/


----------



## Fingers (Jul 30, 2015)

This is some seriously heavy shit.  How tommy Robinson, UKIP's Ann Marie Waters and Alan Ayling (remember him?) are attempting to bring a race war to our streets, in the words of Jim Downson

http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/07/30/jim...o-start-a-race-war-with-the-muslim-community/


----------



## Citizen66 (Jul 30, 2015)

Not really related to this thread but Joe Owens now has a YouTube channel for denouncing all he sees damaging Nationslism by being in cahoots with the state or just being shit generally. He actually comes across as articulate. Shame about the politics and murky vocation.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 5, 2015)

Fingers said:


> This is some seriously heavy shit.  How tommy Robinson, UKIP's Ann Marie Waters and Alan Ayling (remember him?) are attempting to bring a race war to our streets, in the words of Jim Downson
> 
> http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/07/30/jim...o-start-a-race-war-with-the-muslim-community/



I don't really keep up to date with any of this stuff so excuse my ignorance for asking, but didn't Tommy Robinson leave the EDL and join the Quillium Foundation? Is he back up to his old tricks then?


----------



## Fingers (Aug 5, 2015)

cynicaleconomy said:


> I don't really keep up to date with any of this stuff so excuse my ignorance for asking, but didn't Tommy Robinson leave the EDL and join the Quillium Foundation? Is he back up to his old tricks then?



he didn't stay with the Quilliam foundation for very long and he has been in and out of prison for a lot of the time since


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 6, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Not really related to this thread but Joe Owens now has a YouTube channel for denouncing all he sees damaging Nationslism by being in cahoots with the state or just being shit generally. He actually comes across as articulate. Shame about the politics and murky vocation.


joey owens wrote an appalling book about him conquering liverpool on his own against hordes of militant and anarchists one of whom wrote a most scathing rebuttal. many on the far right thinks he's nuts - he accuses everyone working for searchlight as if searchlight have an political traction these days. he does more damage to them than we could ever do as he operates in a divisive and accusative capacity. carry on joey!


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 6, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> joey owens wrote an appalling book about him conquering liverpool on his own against hordes of militant and anarchists one of whom wrote a most scathing rebuttal. many on the far right thinks he's nuts - he accuses everyone working for searchlight as if searchlight have an political traction these days. he does more damage to them than we could ever do as he operates in a divisive and accusative capacity. carry on joey!



I actually started reading his book (it's freely available online). I stopped before it got to his political activity, can't remember why (boredom?). Will have to get it again and truck on. He was accused of murder once. I've managed to live for over 40 years and not have that leveled against me.


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 6, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> apparently on the neo-nazi rotherham march the EDL kicked off with the National Action teenies who came off worst. the neo-nazis had a go at an EDL blokes mixed race girlfriend unsurprisingly and the NA stated that 'nobody in National Action has even been charged with a crime' forgetting the small matter of an attempted murder in a welsh tescos. why cant they all get along?
> http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/07/23/edl-and-national-action-fight-it-out-at-rotherham-demo/


Haha. Made me smile that.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 6, 2015)

westcoast1 said:


> Haha. Made me smile that.



What's funny about it?


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 7, 2015)

im always funny ya bastids!


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> What's funny about it?


National Action getting battered.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 8, 2015)

westcoast1 said:


> National Action getting battered.



They deserve a slap. They were making a nuisance of themselves on fb recently, passing people's photos about.


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 8, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> They deserve a slap. They were making a nuisance of themselves on fb recently, passing people's photos about.



They are going to get another one soon enough.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

yeah they have been making too much noise. plod are gonna be all over them. this is their latest stupidity that will have joey owens accusing searclight of being behind. spectacularly stupid. also note the use of zack davies the nobjob nazi seig heiling in the photo and no mention of the attempted murder charge. 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/neo-nazi-thugs-threaten-race-6219022#ICID=sharebar_twitter


----------



## westcoast1 (Aug 9, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> yeah they have been making too much noise. plod are gonna be all over them. this is their latest stupidity that will have joey owens accusing searclight of being behind. spectacularly stupid. also note the use of zack davies the nobjob nazi seig heiling in the photo and no mention of the attempted murder charge.
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/neo-nazi-thugs-threaten-race-6219022#ICID=sharebar_twitter


Yep one way to get in the crosshairs of the domestic extremism unit.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 9, 2015)

they are either naive or being manipulated cos that was well daft, even for the NA tweenies.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 13, 2015)




----------



## Fozzie Bear (Aug 13, 2015)

NA were saying on twitter that the letter was sent by an agent provocateur.

Either that's true in which case they are very easy to set up - or they sent it and are very low grade trolls. Either way they are pretty stupid.


----------



## malatesta32 (Aug 15, 2015)

meanwhile no one noticed or cared that 200 EDL went round and round in circles in dudley. 
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/replay-edl-walsall-supporters-far-9857182
someone needs to wake them up and tell them they're dead.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 15, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> meanwhile no one noticed or cared that 200 EDL went round and round in circles in dudley.
> http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/replay-edl-walsall-supporters-far-9857182
> someone needs to wake them up and tell them they're dead.



From the article:



> police mutual aid arrangements



Is this Paddick's "anarchy sounds attractive" coming into fruition?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 15, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Is this Paddick's "anarchy sounds attractive" coming into fruition?


 
'Mutual Aid' refers to the standing arrangements between and amongst police forces to provide additional personnel for specific events, typically public order-type affairs.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 15, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'Mutual Aid' refers to the standing arrangements between and amongst police forces to provide additional personnel for specific events, typically public order-type affairs.



Well I suspected it didn't mean food parcels.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Sep 7, 2015)

So they didn't even bother turning up for round 2 in Liverpool then!
Anti-fascists stage peaceful protest as National Action cancels second Liverpool march

I think this is a new medical condition...
_National Action - Medical, a psychological condition where the patient has a recurring need to repeatedly embarrass themselves publicly.
Treatment: A huge kick in the gonads._


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 7, 2015)

latest word is that after seeking police permission to march and having trains and a police escort laid on for them, National Action still couldn't bring themselves to come back to Liverpool.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 7, 2015)

The EDL's ever diminishing ranks managed to get around 100 to Dover on Saturday and were largely ignored on their pointless ramble, though a few locals outside a pub took exception to them, causing the more pissed up to get a bit excited, and one almost lost his pink inflatable pig.
VIDEO: English Defence League march in Dover turns nasty


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 8, 2015)

they are leaderless and have nothing to say. protesting 'muslim pedos' when there are now court cases ongoing is a bit pointless and also the mass expose of white nonces makes their weak arguments weaker.


----------



## tony.c (Sep 9, 2015)

*Birmingham Mail*
United Patriots cancel Walsall protest after EDL 'flop' turnout


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 9, 2015)

tony.c said:


> *Birmingham Mail*
> United Patriots cancel Walsall protest after EDL 'flop' turnout
> United Patriots cancel Walsall protest after EDL 'flop' turnout


such good news it deserved to be said twice


----------



## NormFarr (Sep 13, 2015)

Tea and biscuits was it?


----------



## tony.c (Oct 1, 2015)

Colchester 27/9, Essex antifa report:
Essex Anti-fascists


----------



## Nigel (Oct 1, 2015)

Leaflet for counter demo: EDL
10th October 2015
Photos from Oxford Anti-Fascists's post... - Oxford Anti-Fascists | Facebook


----------



## Nigel (Oct 1, 2015)




----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 5, 2015)

40 SDL in Auld Reekie at the weekend including the nazi who got a boot up the hole in lime st. 
great line: '“We go where we want” adorned the back of their t-shirts – a strange slogan for an anti-refugee demo – but one which Police Scotland were seemingly happy to accord them.'

Police Allowed Nazis to Stage an 'Anti-Refugee' Protest in Edinburgh Today


----------



## tony.c (Oct 11, 2015)

About 100 edl in Aylesbury, and 100 nwi in Preston yesterday, both outnumbered by local antifascists:
Event - Live - Bucks Herald
News: Buckinghamshire news updates from across the region - Get Bucks
VIDEO: One arrest after rival demonstrations in Preston - Lancashire Evening Post


----------



## Paul peace (Oct 11, 2015)

NormFarr said:


> Tea and biscuits was it?




I think I just fucked up, so I'll edit the post


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 12, 2015)

He hasn't gone away, you know.

Tommy Robinson Joins Pegida In 'Fight Against Islamification'


----------



## Paul peace (Oct 12, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> He hasn't gone away, you know.
> 
> Tommy Robinson Joins Pegida In 'Fight Against Islamification'



If there was ever a candidate to stand in the fast lane of the M1 at rush hour, he'd be my first choice.
That evil little turd would look good under the wheels of a land rover.


----------



## Nigel (Oct 12, 2015)

Report Back From Oxford Anti Fascists On EDL Mobilisation In Aylesbury !
Timeline Photos - Oxford Anti-Fascists | Facebook


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 13, 2015)

Nigel said:


> Report Back From Oxford Anti Fascists On EDL Mobilisation In Aylesbury !
> Timeline Photos - Oxford Anti-Fascists | Facebook


C+P for those who don't like clicking FB links:

Yesterday saw the rump end of the English Defence League wander through Aylesbury closely protected by Thames Valley Police. With less them 100 of them turning up, it looked like they had more flags than members. The EDL is dwindling away and the situation is very different to the last time they came to Aylesbury in 2010 when almost 1,000 people joined their demo. The couple of small groups of EDL that were milling around in the town centre in the morning were noticeably less confident and beat a hasty retreat at the sight of anti-fascists, saving the usual chants of ‘smash the reds’ and ‘come on then’ until they were safely behind police lines. They know they are a spent force.​
The AFN and UAF assembled a counter-demo of around 150 but we were penned in by large numbers of police when the EDL drew near, allowing them to march their planned route right through Aylesbury’s main shopping area. The EDL have now reached a stage where they can only march when protected by massive police deployment. It is more important than ever for anti-fascists to show opposition to the EDL, as marching unopposed will only embolden them to carry out racist attacks on the people of Aylesbury and other towns. We had great support from locals turning out to join the counter-demo and then hanging around with the AFN afterwards to give the EDL a rousing send-off and make sure they left town. Lots of positive chants from our side: refugees are welcome here, racists are not!​


----------



## Red Sky (Nov 10, 2015)

Portsmouth EDL/ Pie & Mash Squad having a pop at a Refugees Welcome demo today. They blocked the route of the march.

Clashes at rival rallies over asylum seekers in Portsmouth - Portsmouth News


----------



## Fingers (Nov 11, 2015)

From the video it appeared to be fash scuffling with the police 

Spotted Portsmouth


----------



## The Flying Pig (Nov 11, 2015)

Total pricks! Ah well next confrontation will be ninja v ninja. total bollox!


----------



## nastybobby (Nov 15, 2015)

A turn out of eighty in Bradford yesterday, massively outnumbered by the coppers. The weather was very wet, but I can remember the days, not that long ago, when an EDL demo in the city would mean the city centre would practically be locked down and shops would board their windows. You'd have to know where it was taking place to have noticed it yesterday.


----------



## adidaswoody (Nov 15, 2015)

NormFarr said:


> Tea and biscuits was it?



Who streaks, arse streaks.. XD


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 30, 2015)

Everyone got Tommy's book on the Xmas list yeah?

Tommy Robinson Enemy of the State ISBN 957096493



Books, Comics & Magazines
 

>

Fiction
 

>

General & Literary Fiction


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 7, 2016)

book sales not going so well then? 
Robinson Arrested Over Prison Fight Last Year, Days After Pegida UK Annoucement


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2016)

400 or so, that's got to be a few grams worth?


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Jan 8, 2016)

- Or should that be the author is no longer available?

 



*  This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available.   *
*
*
*Details about  Tommy Robinson Enemy of the State ISBN 957096493*


----------



## Wilf (Jan 19, 2016)

Northeast Infidels/edl manage 25-30 in Boro:
Far-right "embarrassed" by turnout at Middlesbrough march


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 14, 2016)

oh deary me. tommy attacked again. 
Tommy Robinson found unconscious after attack


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2016)

EDL in preston. raining, no local supporters, EDL still think they are relevant. be interesting to see who is speaking and what they're on about nowadays. 
updates throughout the day here (if you can be bothered anymore with EDL):
English Defence League in Preston: Live updates as police prepare for a busy Saturday


----------



## Red Sky (Feb 20, 2016)

Various far-right splinter groups claiming to have disrupted a UAF 'Refugees Welcome' demo in Newcastle today. They say they occupied the demo point. Any northern comrades shed any light on this?


----------



## krink (Feb 20, 2016)

i was in newcastle shopping with the kids. i saw a group of about ten fash being surrounded by cops about thirty yards round the corner from the Monument and it was way before the actual march/rally happened. we walked by monument again when the rally was on, no sign of any fash/edl that i could see. hth


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 20, 2016)

usual cluster of National Action Men,  Northern Infiddlers, NF. more initials than demonstrators. By the way NA are being torn apart over protecting a nonce in their ranks so it is safe to assume those who stand with NA therefore happily stand with sex offenders and their apologists.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 21, 2016)

pissed up, pissed off, pissing down, piss poor. they really need to give it up.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 21, 2016)

infidels, NF, NA, 'Northern Patriots' unite! All 15 of them.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 21, 2016)

I hope there was a rousing chorus of 'you must have come in a taxi!'


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 23, 2016)

Apparently Preston is 'a flea pit' and 'shitty.' How to win friends and influence people!
it really is time for them to stop. 
The Insider’s blog: EDL leader labels Preston a "flea pit, sh*tty"


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Feb 25, 2016)

malatesta32 said:


> Apparently Preston is 'a flea pit' and 'shitty.' How to win friends and influence people!
> it really is time for them to stop.
> The Insider’s blog: EDL leader labels Preston a "flea pit, sh*tty"


If we reverse it to shitty flea pit, it seems to describe that pic of Crossland more aptly.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 5, 2016)

eejits turn up in the toon outnumbered by opposition. 
English Defence League clashes with refugee rights campaigners in Newcastle


----------



## teqniq (Mar 7, 2016)

The EDL has fallen for a spoof story about hot cross buns without crosses 



> A satirical story about a bakery which has stopped selling hot cross buns with their characteristic crosses because they were causing offence has apparently been taken seriously by some members of the English Defence League.
> 
> The story, which appeared on the Southend News Network on 4 March, was reposted on the Facebook pages of two divisions of the far-right protest movement. Commenting on the story, one of the divisions said: “We must not upset the Islamic invaders must we?”...


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 7, 2016)

However, Greggs have countered this with an innovative use of sponge.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 5, 2016)

Tommy was just featured on Channel 4' s "24 hours in police custody" show. Whinging, as far as I could tell. (I just turned on the telly early for the Grayson Perry thing)


----------



## J Ed (Jul 16, 2016)

.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 19, 2016)

The depleted ranks of the EDL apparently planning to attempt to re-run their previous debacle in Nottingham on Sat 6th August. Various counter mobilisations ongoing.


----------



## camouflage (Jul 20, 2016)

Interesting study of the EDL here: ‘Loud and proud’: Politics and passion in the English Defence League - News and events, The University of York


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 20, 2016)

camouflage said:


> Interesting study of the EDL here: ‘Loud and proud’: Politics and passion in the English Defence League - News and events, The University of York


free book OAPEN Library - Loud and proud: Passion and politics in the English Defence League

butchersapron


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 27, 2016)

Respeckta


----------



## Corax (Jul 27, 2016)

malatesta32 said:


> However, Greggs have countered this with an innovative use of sponge.


Bloody Hindus, taking over our patisserie.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 27, 2016)

malatesta32 said:


> However, Greggs have countered this with an innovative use of sponge.


SEND HER VICTORIAS
HAPPY AND GLORIOUS


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 2, 2016)

malatesta32 said:


> However, Greggs have countered this with an innovative use of sponge.


----------



## krink (Aug 14, 2016)

I was having fun with the kids so didn't go into town but I have been told the Sunderland Defence League/Infidels/NF march and rally in Sunderland attracted a whopping 20 - 30 people. I think they're finished as they were fighting amongst themselves straight after it too (going by online reports). 
EDL national demo in Newcastle soon, that will be a very good marker for how they are doing as the regionals pulled in 350 in the past and a thousand plus for nationals.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 16, 2016)

The 1,000+ demo was a spike following Lee Rigby. They were on the bones of their arse before that.
The NEI/SDL have a demo planned in Berwick on 1st October.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 28, 2016)

This thread must surely now be labelled: EDL quick scan (move along nothing to see).


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 28, 2016)

(Edit) Double post through lag.


----------



## longkesh (Aug 31, 2016)

I see more ppl in my bookies on a Monday morning ...grow up and wise up


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 31, 2016)

longkesh said:


> I see more ppl in my bookies on a Monday morning ...grow up and wise up



You are in a bookies on a monday morning.... and you are asking others to 'grow up' and 'wise up'??????????


----------



## longkesh (Aug 31, 2016)

I am in collecting my winnings ..is that a crime ?....


----------



## cantsin (Sep 4, 2016)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> You are in a bookies on a monday morning.... and you are asking others to 'grow up' and 'wise up'??????????



Great post pal


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 24, 2016)

EDL national demo in Newcastle - 50. 300 antifascists. when will the EDL realise it's over ...


----------



## legz (Sep 24, 2016)

Next week......Boston Lincolnshire.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Sep 25, 2016)

legz said:


> Next week......Boston Lincolnshire.


one man and his dog?


----------



## legz (Oct 9, 2016)

Local press said 20, and photos suggested significantly outnumbered by coppers. How much policing cost for a bunch of sad twats like that? 

My elderly Mum lives there. She was adamant that a bunch of skinheads weren't going to stop her going for her groceries, and when I asked her she said she just carried on with her day as if nothing was happening, as did everyone around her. She said here was plenty of vocal opposition as they walked through, which I guess, for a town with a high kipper membership that voted leave en-masse, is good to see. March got abandoned when they reached the main park where they'd planned a 'rally'. Think they worked out they could fit themselves around a picnic blanket so they put their shitty banners away and went looking for a wetherspoons


----------



## ddraig (Nov 1, 2016)

Seen something about march in Telford this weekend


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 2, 2016)

'Yes, i can see the EDL demo! He's behind those coppers!'


----------



## teqniq (Nov 28, 2016)




----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 28, 2016)

Well there is definitely some outrage coming their way:
National Action Member Jack Renshaw Under Investigation After Calling For Jews To Be 'Removed' | The Huffington Post


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 28, 2016)

teqniq said:


>



Men? Manchester?


----------



## emanymton (Nov 28, 2016)

teqniq said:


>



Bolton actually.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 28, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well there is definitely some outrage coming their way:
> National Action Member Jack Renshaw Under Investigation After Calling For Jews To Be 'Removed' | The Huffington Post



I think proscribing them as a 'terrorist group' raises them to a somewhat undeserved level. Flash mob and gobbing off on Twitter is the level they're at.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 30, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think proscribing them as a 'terrorist group' raises them to a somewhat undeserved level. Flash mob and gobbing off on Twitter is the level they're at.



Yes I agree (perhaps with the exception of that NA member who attacked the guy with a machete in a Spar shop?). Their leader being put in prison might be an interesting test of their commitment though, I dunno.

Hipster journal Vice is also opposed to a state ban (presumably because they were fashionable in the 1990s or something):
Why Banning British Nazis Is a Waste of Time | VICE | United Kingdom


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 30, 2016)

Well no radical should support a state ban. Not saying vice are radical!


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Dec 7, 2016)

I see Bonehead has got his comeuppance.... again!
Racist troll guilty of harassing Labour MP with antisemitic posts

feckin freak


----------



## Fingers (Dec 8, 2016)

Sentenced to two year maximum to run consecutively which means he has to serve his current sentence before starting his latest one.  Also five year Criminal Behaviour Order meaning that he has to get approval from the police when he uses the internet on laptop/phone etc


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 19, 2016)

Warren Faulkner formerly of the EDL and presently the North East Infidels is involved in a Charity called Shoeboxes for Heroes and will be featuring on TV tonight "...on Tyne&Wear news at 6.30, sky 117, freeview 7, Virgin 159" if anyone's interested in tuning in.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 20, 2016)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Warren Faulkner formerly of the EDL and presently the North East Infidels is involved in a Charity called Shoeboxes for Heroes and will be featuring on TV tonight "...on Tyne&Wear news at 6.30, sky 117, freeview 7, Virgin 159" if anyone's interested in tuning in.


----------



## krink (Dec 22, 2016)

any link to that video please? Magnus McGinty


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 22, 2016)

krink said:


> any link to that video please? Magnus McGinty



It got removed after it attracted 'interest'.


----------



## krink (Dec 22, 2016)

he's such a little fanny. Reckons he's some kind of hardcase but when offered a go, he bottles it. he's a small time crook with about 20-odd convictions and he used to knock about the fringes of the local smack dealers then found racism to give his sad life meaning. he has not one idea about politics and simply repeats whatever group he's currently in are saying. just another gobshite who loves the attention.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 22, 2016)

that cunt followed me on twitter after i had a go about some shite he posted


----------



## Jay Park (Dec 22, 2016)

Christ on a bike, just had a look at his Twitter. He's an embarrassment to humanity.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 7, 2017)

Rumours circulating that Joe Marsh of the North West Infidels has died.


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 7, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Rumours circulating that Joe Marsh of the North West Infidels has died.



I saw that. He's not done much in the last few years has he?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 7, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> I saw that. He's not done much in the last few years has he?



No idea tbh. Not sad at his passing though.


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 7, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No idea tbh. Not sad at his passing though.



I wasn't getting the black drapes out either. Be a bit of wailing and gnashing from the Pie & Mash girls I expect.


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2017)

He's from Barry i saw him last time he "died" at Cardiff Central sation a few weeks later.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 7, 2017)

Is it just a 'theory' then?


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 7, 2017)

Just saying he's done it before.

was trying to find his funny old youtube vids but seems he's removed them all.


----------



## Fingers (Jan 10, 2017)

This should be funny

Mayor's warning to far-right groups after EDL march report


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 15, 2017)

2016 review: 
2016? Thank Fuck That’s Over!


----------



## malatesta32 (Jan 25, 2017)

dead fascists on a dead thread! 
latest Malatesta blog: May The Farce Be With You!


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 25, 2017)

not EDL but may be of some minor interest is the news that Joey Owens has put his nomination forms in for the Liverpool City Council elections. Not the ward where he lives though. not sure what local support he has identified or whether his camapign will be about trying to identify supporters to work with.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 1, 2017)

the liverpool echo have published loads of info on owens who is more toxic given his 'gangland connections.' he is unaligned and most far righters are split over him cos he keeps making these headache inducing videos - 'helllooo ... yes ... everyone's a ssspy ... i cant prove it but its true ... seeerchlight hope not hate ssssecret ssssstate yeah ... i told you years ago he was a wrong un ...i cant prove it but its true ...'


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 1, 2017)

I suspect that his election campaign , if it ever happens, will be a spectacular failure not because of whatever the Liverpool Echo has to say , or whether the far right are split but simply because he won't have built anything on the ground.


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 2, 2017)

writing a memoir calling yourself the 'Nazi Assassin' was in hindsight, foolish. he is well known round Nogsy so why he's campaigning in another area is odd as it's where he lives with his mum.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 2, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> writing a memoir calling yourself the 'Nazi Assassin' was in hindsight, foolish. he is well known round Nogsy so why he's campaigning in another area is odd as it's where he lives with his mum.


He explains why on one of his videos


----------



## malatesta32 (Feb 3, 2017)

i cant watch them anymore. however, things getting lively in Bristol: 
Village hall rocked by 'anti-fascist gun raid' on far right group


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 25, 2017)

Stephen had some fun last night - Zelo Street: Tommy Robinson Calls


> *Tommy Robinson Calls*
> 
> 
> As many of you will know by now, the *Zelo Street* house had an unexpected - and unwanted - visitor last night. In fact, there were three visitors: former EDL head man Tommy Robinson, aka Stephen Yaxley Lennon, plus two of his pals. Why Robinson should need to turn up on someone else’s doorstep in dead of night with two accomplices I will leave to others to draw their own conclusions.
> ...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Apr 25, 2017)

I'd be surprised if he goes back again tonight. That's basically an offer for antifascists to lie in wait.


----------



## Red Sky (Apr 25, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Stephen had some fun last night - Zelo Street: Tommy Robinson Calls



What's Zelo street? Who is it that Tommy was visiting?


----------



## cantsin (Apr 28, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'd be surprised if he goes back again tonight. That's basically an offer for antifascists to lie in wait.



 would be nice if someone had another go at knocking a bit of sense into Tommy mk # 3 at some point soon, this 'turning up at peoples house' shctick is getting old already


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 5, 2017)

Tommy R will be in Sunderland on the 13th May for a March with the usual suspects - Justice for Chelsey march  - A pretty unpleasant tale from all aspects if anyone has been following it


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 5, 2017)

It's difficult to oppose because of the nature of the case and the strong local feelings about it. In fact it'd be something they have right if it wasn't the fact the only reason they're bothered is because it involves brown skinned perps and a white victim.


----------



## cantsin (May 5, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It's difficult to oppose because of the nature of the case and the strong local feelings about it. In fact it'd be something they have right if it wasn't the fact the only reason they're bothered is because it involves brown skinned perps and a white victim.



have only read the few details out there, and seen no response from the OB or anyone repping the accused -  but if as cut and dry as it seems, would be madness to oppose the march, arguably it should be supported, despite TR's involvement.

A


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> have only read the few details out there, and seen no response from the OB or anyone repping the accused -  but if as cut and dry as it seems, would be madness to oppose the march, arguably it should be supported, despite TR's involvement.
> 
> A



Yep, that's the general consensus.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 5, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I suspect that his election campaign , if it ever happens, will be a spectacular failure not because of whatever the Liverpool Echo has to say , or whether the far right are split but simply because he won't have built anything on the ground.


So far so good


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 5, 2017)

tis a difficult one- the OB  have said nothing and no charges yet made- locals are up in arms about this, especially as the woman has gone public and been interviewed by on film TR ( I think ). This may not help the case if it gets to court.


----------



## Ranbay (May 5, 2017)

Have you seen this bollocks?


----------



## The39thStep (May 5, 2017)

Little more than a stunt tbh. Audience very limited to Twitter


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 5, 2017)

That Rebel TV has quite a big audience.


----------



## Ranbay (May 5, 2017)

There was another one where him and Britain first storm a book shop. It's piss funny


He must be skint again


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 5, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Little more than a stunt tbh. Audience very limited to Twitter



50k views. This one is just shy of a million though.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> 50k views. This one is just shy of a million though.



Sneak!

I thought Wetherspoons were supposed to be like the EDL equivalent of a safe harbour


----------



## The39thStep (May 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> 50k views. This one is just shy of a million though.




Almost as many as a video of goats balancing on a ball and about as much impact in the real world.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Almost as many as a video of goats balancing on a ball and about as much impact in the real world.



Perhaps so. But what's the left's equivalent? Novara Media which struggles to get beyond 5k views per film?


----------



## The39thStep (May 6, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Perhaps so. But what's the left's equivalent? Novara Media which struggles to get beyond 5k views per film?


Good question. There probably is a role for short snappy media, in your face facts etc . Normally it's the alt right or the far right that are better at that. Having said that you only have to look at Momentum for a project built on the sands of social media. The EDL had some success because they used social media to bring out a base in the streets  but then failed to build a political infrastructure .


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2017)

bring back the trews


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2017)

I avoided using Brand as an example but it probably is one.


----------



## MightyTibberton (May 7, 2017)

Someone who was a victim of GamerGate - which is almost the foundational moment for this whole thing - claims that the Alt-Right game Google, YouTube and social media with fake views/likes and other SEO tricks. They certainly use bots on Twitter. The operating principles of social media are "this is popular, this must be good", and "you like this, people who like this also like this, so here is this" and it is, I believe, relatively easy to manipulate those systems. I've seen in my own internet use, how I can quite aimlessly end up in a sewer of extremist views - the best example is how taking an interest in meditation on YouTube led to Sam Harris (who's written a book on meditation), and not long after I'm in serious Islamophobia territory and you can easily go onwards from there.   

Have you seen the Guardian article on similar sorts of shenanigans? 

The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked 

I left Facebook the day before the Brexit vote because of the way it was going. I saw friends who were Leavers - and not racist in my (sometimes limited) experience of them - go through a sort of radicalisation process in the stuff they were posting links to. I think it was that period of time that I was introduced to Breitbart, a whole host of yer actual famous Fake News! stuff, and the like. 

Kids have smart phones from, what age...? And they're getting all their news that way. And the right is winning in that area. Breitbart is by far the most popular news site on Facebook. The right does incredibly well on Twitter. Reddit... 4Chan... Some of the talk of what they've achieved is self-mythologising; some is - I believe - based on dodgy numbers; but they have a huge new platform and they are making very effective use of it, and using it to pull themselves into mainstream media and into mainstream political life. I've interacted with young people online - in forums and comments - who have a completely different set of facts. 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but in production values, style, and often content, they are doing very well online at the moment. I think the left should start to play the same game by the same rules. And quickly to be honest.


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2017)

this about French election (from 10 April)
US internet 'warriors' send racially charged symbols to France - BBC News


----------



## RD2003 (May 7, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> Someone who was a victim of GamerGate - which is almost the foundational moment for this whole thing - claims that the Alt-Right game Google, YouTube and social media with fake views/likes and other SEO tricks. They certainly use bots on Twitter. The operating principles of social media are "this is popular, this must be good", and "you like this, people who like this also like this, so here is this" and it is, I believe, relatively easy to manipulate those systems. I've seen in my own internet use, how I can quite aimlessly end up in a sewer of extremist views - the best example is how taking an interest in meditation on YouTube led to Sam Harris (who's written a book on meditation), and not long after I'm in serious Islamophobia territory and you can easily go onwards from there.
> 
> Have you seen the Guardian article on similar sorts of shenanigans?
> 
> ...


These days the right seems kind of exciting, while the left seems dull, and in its present majority form-now that it has pretty much given up on changing the economic system in favour of lifestyle politics (yes, generalising, I know but...)-a bit like the finger-wagging, right-on teacher telling you how your attitudes are all wrong.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 8, 2017)

SDL = NAZIS:
Nazi salutes and greetings for Hitler - cops must get tough on fascist brothers


----------



## sim667 (May 10, 2017)

Whitchurch man, 24, punched his partner as she gave birth in hospital



> A new father from Whitchurch punched his partner while she was in a hospital delivery room giving birth to their child, a court heard.



Its relative to this thread because:



> The court heard Davies had previously been jailed for assault when he was a member of the English Defence League, threatening behaviour at an EDL demonstration and a football banning order for being on Shrewsbury Town’s pitch while in possession of a firework.



Nasty piece of shit


----------



## bimble (May 10, 2017)

oh noes! he's been arrested again.


Tommy Robinson arrested for 'trying to film Muslims'


----------



## Ranbay (May 10, 2017)




----------



## Ranbay (May 10, 2017)

It's an amazing formula to be fair, get arrested for shit things, ask for money it comes flooding in.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 10, 2017)

bimble said:


> oh noes! he's been arrested again.
> View attachment 106403
> 
> Tommy Robinson arrested for 'trying to film Muslims'


Geldof-style appeal launched by Steve-O's New Best Pal there


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 10, 2017)

I like how they've put in a picture that makes it look like he's peeping through someone's basement window


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2017)

I'm not gettin arrested just for filming  muslims. Fuck that.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (May 10, 2017)

"Save Tommy"........... from his own stuuuuupid self.


----------



## Ranbay (May 10, 2017)

If he can't live by our laws he should fuck off back to his own country!


----------



## chilango (May 10, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> I'm not gettin arrested just for filming  muslims. Fuck that.



She interviewed him iirc didn't she?


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2017)

chilango said:


> She interviewed him iirc didn't she?


Yes, and focused on how he used her to get a non-posh steak.


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2017)

_I will not give a voice to racists - here is my interview with a racist. He looked common too,_


----------



## bemused (May 11, 2017)

I wonder why he doesn't look to video fraudsters in court?


----------



## Ranbay (May 11, 2017)

Also as disgusting as the crime is, there not peados are they even if guilty. He just thinks that they all are because of Mohammed marrying Aisha


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 11, 2017)

> Any filming and recording of courts and court precincts is illegal in the UK under section 41 of the Criminal Justice Act 1925 and the Contempt of Court Act.



I've seen loads of footage of outside court buildings though. Pretty much after any major case concludes.


----------



## Ranbay (May 11, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I've seen loads of footage of outside court buildings though. Pretty much after any major case concludes.



I think he was trying to film the people involved and it's also an on going case, they can't report until the case is over for legal reasons.

hence why you see the family on the steps after a big case has concluded.


----------



## Ranbay (May 11, 2017)

Britain First leaders arrested for inciting hatred over trial

kinda linked... more fuckwits arrested for being fuckwits.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 14, 2017)

My North East FB family etc have been posting up loads on the justice for Chelsey stuff after the rally on Wearside this weekend - the whole thinsg is getting seriously distastul and being whipped up by the EDL lot- lots of posts about muslim rape gangs and summary execution being bandied about on the original FB page.  99% of it is fact free, but this lot are now pretty skilled at spreading these tropes. Seems that the family of the woman at the centre of it are EDL'ers as far as I can see. may be worth keeping an eye on this, as it will not be going away soon


----------



## malatesta32 (May 15, 2017)

this is her brother, a vile piece of shit.
Kieran Wright? ‘Riight Wanker!’


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

I think your time is over. That crap is not useful.


----------



## malatesta32 (May 15, 2017)

oh fuck off you self righteous arse biscuit. the man is a scumbag.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 18, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> My North East FB family etc have been posting up loads on the justice for Chelsey stuff after the rally on Wearside this weekend - the whole thinsg is getting seriously distastul and being whipped up by the EDL lot- lots of posts about muslim rape gangs and summary execution being bandied about on the original FB page.  99% of it is fact free, but this lot are now pretty skilled at spreading these tropes. Seems that the family of the woman at the centre of it are EDL'ers as far as I can see. may be worth keeping an eye on this, as it will not be going away soon



The posh cunt who does Rebel TV that is milking this with Tommy has invented a fictitious Antifascist group that he claims is opposing the campaign.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (May 18, 2017)

Who the feck wrote that flyer? Not anyone connected with NE ANTIFA for sure... was it the webel TV, Yah, bloke?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 18, 2017)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Who the feck wrote that flyer? Not anyone connected with NE ANTIFA for sure... was it the webel TV, Yah, bloke?



As bad as graphics skills are in the economically deprived NE, this has been slung together by someone wanting to convince people of something. 
Not sure why it's in paper form either. Maybe Phil Collins faxed them It as part of their divorce.


----------



## Ranbay (May 20, 2017)

Tommy has been in Alex Jones talking about how girls get made into kebabs here.


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 21, 2017)

What is evident about the Chelsey case is the lack of solidarity from anything that even looks left wing. Where is the local labour party for example? Journos or feminists even?

Why the lack of initiative? Why is it left open to right wing campaigners? (not that the organizers of the campaign are, but the speakers at the protest were)

You have a woman who has been raped and her violent attackers are going unpunished. Since when has that been something it's ok to ignore? The more I look at what is happening in the UK the sicker I feel. There are very unhealthy divisions and ordinary people have been politically abandoned/shunned, leading to a very unhealthy vacuum.  

More confirmation bias for my perception that 99% percent of people who claim to be progressive are in fact posers and can only show solidarity if it's for people safely very far away.


----------



## ddraig (May 21, 2017)

oh look who it ain't!!

what are your sources for your take on this? link


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 22, 2017)

ddraig said:


> oh look who it ain't!!
> 
> what are your sources for your take on this? link



A quick browse on youtube brings up several videos, including an interview with the girl by the former EDl leader and some of the protest in Sunderland town. I don't doubt what she says. Personally, the fact of who interviews her or who is running most with the story hasn't obstructed my take on what has happened, which is focussed on the victim and the lack of justice. (and concern for future consequences)

The fact that right wing vloggers appear to be the only ones uploading the videos is because others, who should be concerned about the case, aren't. It's plain to see that it is another case of a working class woman being let down by a hypocritical and divided society, which, paralyzed by political correctness leaves it to the extreme right to fill the vacuum. 

If the labour party, for example, were more in touch with working class people in the area, they would have got involved and given support and that would have, imo, lessened the standing of  right wing populists who have parachuted in but are hitting on a nerve.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 22, 2017)

It's good that Tommy and the EDL are showing off their feminist credentials for a change. Given their lack of protests for working class women raped by white assailants, including members of their own organisation.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 22, 2017)

They protested this sexually motivated murder when it was assumed it was perpetrated by someone with brown skin, then fell suddenly silent when it was discovered it was a fellow protester and EDL member that carried it out. 

Paige Chivers: Man jailed for murdering Blackpool teen - BBC News


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They protested this sexually motivated murder when it was assumed it was perpetrated by someone with brown skin, then fell suddenly silent when it was discovered it was a fellow protester and EDL member that carried it out.
> 
> Paige Chivers: Man jailed for murdering Blackpool teen - BBC News


poor girl  rip


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 22, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> A quick browse on youtube brings up several videos, including an interview with the girl by the former EDl leader and some of the protest in Sunderland town. I don't doubt what she says. Personally, the fact of who interviews her or who is running most with the story hasn't obstructed my take on what has happened, which is focussed on the victim and the lack of justice. (and concern for future consequences)
> 
> The fact that right wing vloggers appear to be the only ones uploading the videos is because others, who should be concerned about the case, aren't. It's plain to see that it is another case of a working class woman being let down by a hypocritical and divided society, which, paralyzed by political correctness leaves it to the extreme right to fill the vacuum.
> 
> If the labour party, for example, were more in touch with working class people in the area, they would have got involved and given support and that would have, imo, lessened the standing of  right wing populists who have parachuted in but are hitting on a nerve.



I don't know a lot about this case (and a quick google suggests that most other people don't know much about it either).

Maybe the obvious reasons not to wade in with all guns blazing are:

1. There is a risk of prejudicing the legal case or police investigation.
2. There is a risk of inflaming the situation. (Two asian blokes who apparently are unconnected with the crime have already been attacked)
3. There is a risk of exacerbating the trauma experienced by the victim.

I assume that the reason why I can't find a single recent news article about Chelsey Wright except far right ones is because the matter is subjudice or the investigation or trial is still continuing? Clearly these people just want to make political capital out of the fact that the alleged rapists were refugees and they don't actually give a shit about the victim or whether their intervention makes things worse for her.

If anyone thinks that the above is nonsense and/or can suggest practical pro-working class ways of showing solidarity in this situation, I would be interested to know.


----------



## ddraig (May 22, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> What is evident about the Chelsey case is the lack of solidarity from anything that even looks left wing. Where is the local labour party for example? Journos or feminists even?
> 
> Why the lack of initiative? Why is it left open to right wing campaigners? (not that the organizers of the campaign are, but the speakers at the protest were)
> 
> ...


"a quick browse" 
what fb groups and other things do you get your links from? stand up for your beliefs man

why are the edl and fellow travellers only concerned with alleged and actual assaults committed by non white people?


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 22, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I don't know a lot about this case (and a quick google suggests that most other people don't know much about it either).
> 
> Maybe the obvious reasons not to wade in with all guns blazing are:
> 
> ...




The prosecution has been dropped apparently. There is no police investigation.


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 22, 2017)

ddraig said:


> "a quick browse"
> what fb groups and other things do you get your links from? stand up for your beliefs man
> 
> why are the edl and fellow travellers only concerned with alleged and actual assaults committed by non white people?



I was very clear the only information is from those sources and explained why I think it's the case.

What do you mean by standing up for your beliefs? Do you mean no one should show interest in her case for justice because right wingers are trying to or have hijacked it to some extent?
Please explain what you mean by standing up for your beliefs? Does it mean looking the other the way due to some discomfort caused by the attacker's identity?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 22, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> The prosecution has been dropped apparently. There is no police investigation.



Curious that there is no coverage in the mainstream press since October, then?


----------



## ddraig (May 22, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I was very clear the only information is from those sources and explained why I think it's the case.
> 
> What do you mean by standing up for your beliefs? Do you mean no one should show interest in her case for justice because right wingers are trying to or have hijacked it to some extent?
> Please explain what you mean by standing up for your beliefs? Does it mean looking the other the way due to some discomfort caused by the attacker's identity?


but why do they never ever campaign about rape(s) committed by white blokes? or their own members?

your beliefs meaning you clearly lean that way are a fellow traveller or have a weird interest in the far right, no one goes browsing youtube for such things, they arrive there from somewhere else
if this case and other like it are so important to you, be clear why they are


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 22, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I was very clear the only information is from those sources and explained why I think it's the case.
> 
> What do you mean by standing up for your beliefs? Do you mean no one should show interest in her case for justice because right wingers are trying to or have hijacked it to some extent?
> Please explain what you mean by standing up for your beliefs? Does it mean looking the other the way due to some discomfort caused by the attacker's identity?



Can you name the cases you've campaigned for?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 23, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Curious that there is no coverage in the mainstream press since October, then?


lefty coverup again.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 23, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Curious that there is no coverage in the mainstream press since October, then?


 

The Local rag did pickup on both the accusation and the subsequent arrest at the time as well as a recent note to say no charges will be brought or whatever IIRC. That is as far as they can go with the incident itself obviously.

I am not sure how a paper would be able to report on the demo without miring itself in some awful black hole with no end- maybe their lawyers have just advised them to avoid totally. The EDL are troping that the lack of coverage is indeed effectively a cover up. I am hearing the things a very tense in the Hendon area - the pub talk  and rumour I am hearing of is very nasty - other assault being reported in Washington last week ( no idea if correct as the net has a mind of its own)  by an asylum seeker blah blah blah. fucking awful.


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## Ranbay (May 23, 2017)

Tommy made it to Manchester yet or what?


----------



## treelover (May 23, 2017)

ddraig said:


> but why do they never ever campaign about rape(s) committed by white blokes? or their own members?
> 
> your beliefs meaning you clearly lean that way are a fellow traveller or have a weird interest in the far right, no one goes browsing youtube for such things, they arrive there from somewhere else
> if this case and other like it are so important to you, be clear why they are



You have form on accusing leftist minded people of being on the far right, give it a rest.


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 23, 2017)

ddraig said:


> but why do they never ever campaign about rape(s) committed by white blokes? or their own members?
> 
> your beliefs meaning you clearly lean that way are a fellow traveller or have a weird interest in the far right, no one goes browsing youtube for such things, they arrive there from somewhere else
> if this case and other like it are so important to you, be clear why they are



If you read my posts correctly you will perhaps notice that they are in essence showing regret that other, more supposedly progressive political organizations are not engaging working class issues and thus allowing the likes of Edl to fill a vacuum that they should not be filling.

As for "no one goes browsing youtube", well, that's an argument in favour of outright ignorance. I first heard about the girl's plight on this very thread so went to check what was going on. Viewing the case objectiveley you can see two things:

A. An injustice involving rape
B. The right wing offering leadership to the campaign.

Noticing these two facts is not the same as supporting B.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 23, 2017)

treelover said:


> You have form on accusing leftist minded people of being on the far right, give it a rest.


he's not worth it, treelover


----------



## Anudder Oik (May 23, 2017)

Yeah Treelover, you better take those flowers back to the shop.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 23, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Yeah Treelover, you better take those flowers back to the shop.


unless they're lilies.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 23, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> If you read my posts correctly you will perhaps notice that they are in essence showing regret that other, more supposedly progressive political organizations are not engaging working class issues and thus allowing the likes of Edl to fill a vacuum that they should not be filling.
> 
> As for "no one goes browsing youtube", well, that's an argument in favour of outright ignorance. I first heard about the girl's plight on this very thread so went to check what was going on. Viewing the case objectiveley you can see two things:
> 
> ...



They're not 'offering leadership' at all. They're providing publicity in return for exploiting it for political ends. 
Now, why do you think other political groups might not be keen to use a rape  victim for political gain?


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## LiamO (May 23, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They're not 'offering leadership' at all. They're providing publicity in return for exploiting it for political ends.



Yes. That is exactly the point Anudder Oik is making.

The problem is that for many locals they are perceived as 'offering leadership'.

That's how it works.

That's how it worked for the 'Rights For Whites' campaigns in East London in the early 90's. Oik is lamenting the way the left just allows them do to this unchallenged and suggesting the reasons why he thinks this is the case.

It is a case with merit IMHO.


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## Magnus McGinty (May 23, 2017)

LiamO said:


> Yes. That is exactly the point Anudder Oik is making.
> 
> The problem is that for many locals they are perceived as 'offering leadership'.
> 
> ...



So what would you have done? Got in there first and exploited it for political gain yourself? Opposed them for doing so? What?


----------



## LiamO (May 23, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So what would you have done? Got in there first and exploited it for political gain yourself? Opposed them for doing so? What?



Now you are just being silly.

Not my beef. cba.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 23, 2017)

LiamO said:


> Now you are just being silly.
> 
> Not my beef. cba.



Not sure it's on to criticise without offering advice / an alternative.


----------



## LiamO (May 23, 2017)

cba


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 23, 2017)

Haha aren't the left in Sunderland shit?

What would you have done? 

cba.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 23, 2017)

I asked upthread what a pro-working class response to this would look like and I think it is a reasonable question. 

A protest/vigil/pressure lead by local w/c women is about as far as I've got with it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 23, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I asked upthread what a pro-working class response to this would look like and I think it is a reasonable question.
> 
> A protest/vigil/pressure lead by local w/c women is about as far as I've got with it.



It started as an initiative led by locals, the far right have since parachuted in. 
I'm not a fan of rocking up to local initiatives, SWP style, and raising a banner above it. Obviously it leaves it wide open for the far right. On this occasion they have it right though, just for the wrong reasons obvs.


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## Magnus McGinty (May 23, 2017)

I suppose if solidarity/community focused groups already existed in those communities then the far right would have a harder time making inroads when a campaign that suits comes along.


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## ddraig (May 23, 2017)

treelover said:


> You have form on accusing leftist minded people of being on the far right, give it a rest.


pardon?? have you read AO posts?? and their threads??

you have form for posting a lot of crap and flaming everyone that doesn't fit into your cosy box, fuck off


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## ddraig (May 23, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> If you read my posts correctly you will perhaps notice that they are in essence showing regret that other, more supposedly progressive political organizations are not engaging working class issues and thus allowing the likes of Edl to fill a vacuum that they should not be filling.
> 
> As for "no one goes browsing youtube", well, that's an argument in favour of outright ignorance. I first heard about the girl's plight on this very thread so went to check what was going on. Viewing the case objectiveley you can see two things:
> 
> ...


bullshit, you've been called out and run away from so many dodgy posts it's not just a coincidence 

if you were viewing it objectively then why can't you see the far right are using it for their own gain/advantage?


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## juice_terry (May 23, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Tommy made it to Manchester yet or what?


Yes the snake has .. hopefully he will be shouted down/chased off by locals in the same way EDL twats were at the arndale earlier


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Anudder Oik (May 24, 2017)

ddraig said:


> bullshit, you've been called out and run away from so many dodgy posts it's not just a coincidence
> 
> if you were viewing it objectively then why can't you see the far right are using it for their own gain/advantage?



But I can see the far right are using it for their own gain, hence the regret that the campaign is not being supported by other, more progressive groups.


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## ddraig (May 24, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> But I can see the far right are using it for their own gain, hence the regret that the campaign is not being supported by other, more progressive groups.


What campaign?
What should "more progressive" groups be doing? Which ones? And why aren't you asking those groups or starting one yourself?
Should these groups also campaign about rape by non white perpetrators?

Seeing as you are so concerned


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## cantsin (May 24, 2017)

ddraig said:


> why are the edl and fellow travellers only concerned with alleged and actual assaults committed by non white people?



because they're racist opportunists - but their involvement in this case doesn't mean a rotten miscarriage of justice  ( if that's what it is - and it looks it from the bare facts on offer ) shouldn't be highlighted /opposed surely ?


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## ddraig (May 24, 2017)

does that happen for other cases? 
if yes then same should happen


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## krink (May 25, 2017)

.


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## malatesta32 (Jun 3, 2017)

oh dear.
Chaos at EDL demo as anti-fascist protesters clash in streets - updates


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## Bernie Gunther (Jun 3, 2017)

This is fucking funny.


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## Nigel (Jun 4, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> This is fucking funny.



What did you think of the relationship between Antifa & UAF/SUTR here; especially with both groups hoarded together by police  ?


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## krink (Jun 8, 2017)

reminds me of this


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## juice_terry (Jun 11, 2017)

They won't be playing Benny Hill music today in Manchester.. Robinson has mustered 2000 who are running amok with very little opposition and what opposition there is are taking a kicking .. sad state of affairs 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2017)

This seems suspect as I'm not sure it was billed as an EDL event. Something similar was tried in Teesside last year where the far right posed as LGBT and tried to organise a demo 'against hate' and there's rumours something similar might have happened in Manchester.


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> This seems suspect as I'm not sure it was billed as an EDL event.


It wasn't.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2017)

Exactly. I don't know much else presently though.


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## juice_terry (Jun 11, 2017)

It was billed as LGBT against Islam March then suddenly changed to Unite against Hate march .. even still numbers should have been mobilised for the initial protest .. 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> It was billed as LGBT against Islam March then suddenly changed to Unite against Hate march .. even still numbers should have been mobilised for the initial protest ..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


How did you try to mobilise them?


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## juice_terry (Jun 11, 2017)

Robinson and his goons had turned up at Didsbury Mosque at 3 this morning kicking the doors demanding to speak to the imam .. there was initially some gloating on social media that only 80 or so had turned up .. completely caught off guard 

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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> It was billed as LGBT against Islam March then suddenly changed to Unite against Hate march .. even still numbers should have been mobilised for the initial protest ..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk



If that's what it was billed as I agree alarm bells should have gone off.


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Who the feck wrote that flyer? Not anyone connected with NE ANTIFA for sure... was it the webel TV, Yah, bloke?


The LGBTQP acronym makes me raise an eyebrow for one thing.

Whilst I appreciate that the P is used by some for Postgender or Pansexual, this combination has also been adopted by the far right to associate paedophilia with the Pride or sexual/gender identity equality movements.


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## juice_terry (Jun 11, 2017)

Corax said:


> How did you try to mobilise them?


Same way you did 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> Same way you did
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


I didn't do anything.

Neither did I then shake my head and bemoan the lack of opposition.


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## juice_terry (Jun 11, 2017)

So there's no space for criticism when things go wrong and are handles wrongly? We can only cheer on when the fash are escorted away by police and cheer on victories .. there will need to be lessons learnt from today's carry on in Manchester.. or is no one allowed to say anything that might be deemed negative ?!

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## juice_terry (Jun 11, 2017)

And this will be a huge confidence booster to the fash .. 

ETA: have to laugh at HnH bemoaning the lack of police protection too .

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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> So there's no space for criticism when things go wrong and are handles wrongly? We can only cheer on when the fash are escorted away by police and cheer on victories .. there will need to be lessons learnt from today's carry on in Manchester.. or is no one allowed to say anything that might be deemed negative ?!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


How about instead of posting


> Robinson has mustered 2000 who are running amok with very little opposition and what opposition there is are taking a kicking .. sad state of affairs





> even still numbers should have been mobilised for the initial protest ..


You had tried starting with


> Did anyone see any attempts to mobilise numbers for this?





> How can we get rapid responses to these events more effectively?


Just a thought.


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## juice_terry (Jun 11, 2017)

How about you post the way you like and I'll post the way I like .. I posted exactly what I intended to say .. so there's no need to consider your alternative

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## Corax (Jun 11, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> How about you post the way you like and I'll post the way I like


Sure, we'll do that.  And I'll continue to pull you up on your hand-wringing criticism of antifa responses whilst offering fuck all alternatives.  As will, I suspect, many others.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2017)

His criticisms are valid. Something must have gone wrong though probably intel related.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 11, 2017)

Regarding todays demo in Mcr: A few things I wrote in response to a concern that this was a bit of a win for the scum:

This isn't strictly the EDL but a broader coalition ("Unite Against Hate" - calculated doublespeak) inspired by the alt-right. So called "Rebel Media" (robinson/lennon's latest vehicle) are a key part.

I hope there isn't too much room for growth, the galvanisation of young people for Corbyn and economic populism (the best antidote to cultural r/w populism) will be very healthy in this regard.

Further, without wishing to diminish legitimate concern, the fascists had a better build-up here. They had next to nothing to do during the election, whereas the left are relatively knackered. There was a large demo against the tories in town yesterday. All the noise has been about the election and a lot of people didn't even know about today. Therefore the fash turnout was national and ours was local.

The fash will be emboldened but they are generally clueless on how to build. It's would probably be spin to call it a score-draw but a narrow win (which they dine out on for years) may still be a relatively high point. The EDL themselves collapsed after a couple of years of screw-up. The problem was that their rhetoric (and many personel) transmigrated to UKIP,then Brexit.

We are now at the start of the most detested government of our lives, and much of this may well end up on the streets. The far-right may well have only a relatively bit-part in that.

In terms of Islamaphobia, it is vital to keep up pressure regarding the establishment support for Islamic extremism via Saudi and groups like Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. The more people who are educated about Takfiri islam (a tiny majority who murder far more muslims than non muslims) the better.


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## Red Sky (Jun 11, 2017)

I've heard approximately 1000 EDL, coming together under Tommy's new banner, facing an opposition of around 200, largely mobilised from various queer groups. No response from any organised anti fascist groups either SUTR or Manchester Anti Fascists.

It does seem like a bolt from the blue but there's a few factors at play. Brexit is probably dead, UKIP have vanished as a political force, there have been  two terrorist atrocities and Tommy has decided to throw his hat back in as an organiser. 

If it's a one off, then hey ho, but I've heard the next stop is London, possibly on the 24th.  If they get the numbers out then, then we're looking at a reborn EDL.


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## Mr.Bishie (Jun 11, 2017)

Robinson really knows the buttons to press - apparently fash were queuing up to take selfies with him as the chants of his name got louder.


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## Mr.Bishie (Jun 12, 2017)

11/06/2017 March Against Hate | Joel Goodman


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## The39thStep (Jun 12, 2017)

Manchester Evening News coverage 
Protesters slammed for bringing 'hate' to the city and stretching police with 'almost nothing left to give'


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## The39thStep (Jun 12, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> I've heard approximately 1000 EDL, coming together under Tommy's new banner, facing an opposition of around 200, largely mobilised from various queer groups. No response from any organised anti fascist groups either SUTR or Manchester Anti Fascists.
> 
> It does seem like a bolt from the blue but there's a few factors at play. Brexit is probably dead, UKIP have vanished as a political force, there have been  two terrorist atrocities and Tommy has decided to throw his hat back in as an organiser.
> 
> If it's a one off, then hey ho, but I've heard the next stop is London, possibly on the 24th.  If they get the numbers out then, then we're looking at a reborn EDL.


Lot more than 1000 there


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## Red Sky (Jun 12, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Lot more than 1000 there


 I spoke to someone there and that was their estimate. I think more important is the composition of the crowd.  From what I could gather this was basically all old EDL. Early days yet though and I wasn't there.


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## The Flying Pig (Jun 12, 2017)

Looks like the police and opposition to the march were taken by surprise at the numbers in attendance.


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## Corax (Jun 12, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> I spoke to someone there and that was their estimate. I think more important is the composition of the crowd.  From what I could gather this was basically all old EDL. Early days yet though and I wasn't there.


From the pictures I've seen there seemed to be quite a large Pride presence.  Not saying that there's no LGBT+ support for EDL, but I find it unlikely in those numbers.


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## Anudder Oik (Jun 12, 2017)

Fascinating argument captured on the sidelines between a march attendee and some people who opposed it, which shows the main perception from both sides. I think she is right to be alarmed but wrong for labelling them all as nazis and he doesn't realise that the composition and nature of the protest enboldens the extreme right, who will use it for growth, and that ordinary people are intimidated by this style of protest.


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## Corax (Jun 12, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Fascinating argument captured on the sidelines between a march attendee and some people who opposed it, which shows the main perception from both sides. I think she is right to be alarmed but wrong for labelling them all as nazis and he doesn't realise that the composition and nature of the protest enboldens the extreme right, who will use it for growth, and that ordinary people are intimidated by this style of protest.



Fuck's sake.  What a wasted opportunity.


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## Red Sky (Jun 12, 2017)

Corax said:


> Fuck's sake.  What a wasted opportunity.


 Some people do find it a bit difficult to go off script.


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## bimble (Jun 12, 2017)

The man whose channel that's posted on is like a Swedish Tim Pool, just with a cycle helmet instead of the bulletproof vest. Look how he calls the EDL 'the patriots'.


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## killer b (Jun 12, 2017)

Oh look. There's Annudder Oik sharing far right propaganda videos again. 

_Fascinating._


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## Anudder Oik (Jun 12, 2017)

killer b said:


> Oh look. There's Annudder Oik sharing far right propaganda videos again.
> 
> _Fascinating._



That's very simplistic. Perhaps you could explain why there are "no" leftwing vloggers covering protests, like absolutely none. The only videos available are from right wing youtubers and unlike yourself I am unable to nurture an opinion by abstaining from seeing what the other side are doing, which seems to be the case of the girl in the video who is quite unprepared to win an easy argument.

I came across this one by typing "Manchester" in the youtube search and scrolling through the various videos. Nothing strange in that.

PS, I think it would constitute propaganda if it had been edited with cuts to make one side or the other look stupid but it is one long take. I don't care who made the video.


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## killer b (Jun 12, 2017)

sure that's how you came across it.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 12, 2017)

killer b said:


> sure that's how you came across it.



I've spoken about this before, do a search yourself and you'll see. The right is omni present in youtube while the left is inexplicably absent. 

I use different search filters to find coverage of events to get an idea of what's going on. It's usually more effective than watching the TV news.


----------



## killer b (Jun 12, 2017)

I wonder how it came to be that only the racist alt-media covered the secretly organised racist's march in Manchester at the weekend?


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## bimble (Jun 12, 2017)

Oik's right about this.Why there aren't more people making films from 'the other side' I don't know.
Edit: good point killer b .


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## Corax (Jun 12, 2017)

bimble said:


> Oik's right about this.Why there aren't more people making films from 'the other side' I don't know.
> Edit: good point killer b .


Historic and well-founded resistance to being filmed may play a part.  FIT, Redwatch etc.


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## Red Sky (Jun 12, 2017)

Corax said:


> Historic and well-founded resistance to being filmed may play a part.  FIT, Redwatch etc.



Realistically yes. The far right's tendency to film and livestream themselves has lead to some substantial prison sentences.


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## Corax (Jun 12, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Realistically yes. The far right's tendency to film and livestream themselves has lead to some substantial prison sentences.


As well as FIT, Redwatch, you can add The Economic League (and their subsequent rebrands) I guess.  There's always been a very real need for left activists to keep identities hidden - a long-standing reality that the public are generally unaware of unfortunately, leading to false assumptions about the wearing of bandanas and black.

_*Sometimes*_ it's because we want to chuck a brick through Macdonalds' window of course, but not _*always*_.


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## 19force8 (Jun 12, 2017)

I wonder if after last week's Liverpool fiasco and numerous sad PEGIDA events we were complacent. According to UAF there were 500 in opposition (so say the 200 quoted above). Either of which would have been enough to swamp any fascist mobilisation in the last twelve months.

Eternal vigilance.


----------



## Nice one (Jun 12, 2017)

you don't get much more manc than that.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 13, 2017)

killer b said:


> sure that's how you came across it.


He used this very reason for something else recently
Crap wriggling basically, totally transparent


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 13, 2017)

I know a few blokes , who I am on good terms with, who will say that Tommy Robinson says says some good things. ie that he is against Islamic terrorism, the burkha and sharia law. Of course I tell them that he has another agenda and that he gets support from the far right but they'll come back and say why aren't the left doing something about it. so I tell them about the dozen or so fighting alongside the Kurds actually doing something to fight ISIS and then they'll say why don't the left hold demonstration over here supporting the fighters and against Islamic extremism , the burkha and sharia law. And then I get stuck . We've missed an opportunity and that's why people like that black lad , the Asian girl in the Union Jack and no doubt a couple of hundred others joined Robinsons demo. Of course there were some nazis on it but there would have been a lot more non nazis on it as well.


----------



## mather (Jun 13, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I know a few blokes , who I am on good terms with, who will say that Tommy Robinson says says some good things. ie that he is against Islamic terrorism, the burkha and sharia law. Of course I tell them that he has another agenda and that he gets support from the far right but they'll come back and say why aren't the left doing something about it. so I tell them about the dozen or so fighting alongside the Kurds actually doing something to fight ISIS and then they'll say why don't the left hold demonstration over here supporting the fighters and against Islamic extremism , the burkha and sharia law. And then I get stuck . We've missed an opportunity and that's why people like that black lad , the Asian girl in the Union Jack and no doubt a couple of hundred others joined Robinsons demo. Of course there were some nazis on it but there would have been a lot more non nazis on it as well.



It is a shame it has come to this but if we are honest here, then sections of the left are at fault. There were too many people (SWP, George Galloway etc...) who were too comfortable with working with and campaigning alongside Islamists and supporters of terrorism. The left should have never gone anywhere near the likes of the Muslim Association of Britain (a Muslim Brotherhood front group) or CAGE but they did.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 13, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I know a few blokes , who I am on good terms with, who will say that Tommy Robinson says says some good things. ie that he is against Islamic terrorism, the burkha and sharia law. Of course I tell them that he has another agenda and that he gets support from the far right but they'll come back and say why aren't the left doing something about it. so I tell them about the dozen or so fighting alongside the Kurds actually doing something to fight ISIS and then they'll say why don't the left hold demonstration over here supporting the fighters and against Islamic extremism , the burkha and sharia law. And then I get stuck . We've missed an opportunity and that's why people like that black lad , the Asian girl in the Union Jack and no doubt a couple of hundred others joined Robinsons demo. Of course there were some nazis on it but there would have been a lot more non nazis on it as well.



I remember one of the TAL lads ( I think ) writing about a possible pro PPK (?) / anti ISIS demo before an NF /  Dover  demo, but it didnt actually happen in the end. Would / could have been an important starting point possibly.

Reflexive , ritualised street opposition to reasonably well staged ' anti hate' type demos like the one in Manc, however much right wing opportunism is at the heart of it, can be a mistake imo. I saw someone who seemed vaguely non suspect on twitter referring to 'antifa / Momentum thugs 'shouting in girls faces' type thing...not good .


----------



## cantsin (Jun 13, 2017)

Corax said:


> Fuck's sake.  What a wasted opportunity.



cldnt get this out of my head - what do you mean exactly ? ( ie : to engage / discuss with the bloke ? )


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 13, 2017)

mather said:


> It is a shame it has come to this but if we are honest here, then sections of the left are at fault. There were too many people (SWP, George Galloway etc...) who were too comfortable with working with and campaigning alongside Islamists and supporters of terrorism. The left should have never gone anywhere near the likes of the Muslim Association of Britain (a Muslim Brotherhood front group) or CAGE but they did.


The British left has many weaknesses, but it's ability to relate to and work with Muslim minorities is not one of them. If they had taken the approach you suggest they would have cheered on Blair's invasions and Cameron's bombing missions *. They would demonise the entire Muslim community and support (nay initiate) bans on headscarves in schools etc, etc. 

The end result would have been TR at the head of 200,000 in Manchester and a virtual lockdown in Muslim areas.

If you think that's far fetched you only have to look across the Channel and contemplate the rise of Le Pen and the FN. IMO largely down to the French left's decision that secularism was more important than anti-racism.

Last weekend AFA/HnH/SUTR/UAF took their eyes off the ball and the fascists got a boost. The way to counter that isn't to agree that Muslims are the problem, but to get out there and expose the real nature of the hardened fascists to the audience they trying to pull behind them.

* E2A There are sections of the left that do this, eg AWL.


----------



## newbie (Jun 13, 2017)

mather said:


> It is a shame it has come to this but if we are honest here, then sections of the left are at fault. There were too many people (SWP, George Galloway etc...) who were too comfortable with working with and campaigning alongside Islamists and supporters of terrorism. The left should have never gone anywhere near the likes of the Muslim Association of Britain (a Muslim Brotherhood front group) or CAGE but they did.


never?  MAB were heavily involved in 2003.  There were muslim groups involved in the coalition against the first Gulf war.  For all I know there were organised muslim groups active in the movement against the Suez invasion.  There have been umpteen iterations of pro-Palestinian support since, well I dunno, the Balfour declaration was made? 

Are you suggesting that over at least the last 25 years or so 'the left' should have organised in ways that excluded explicitly muslim groups?


----------



## bimble (Jun 13, 2017)

It's interesting to contrast the Manchester thing with what was happening in America this weekend (widespread 'anti-sharia' demos at most of which I think the counter-demonstrations were bigger and in many places blocked the road so the 'ACT' lot couldn't pass.

Live-Blog: ACT for America’s “March Against Sharia” Rallies
Syracuse, NY: Regional Anti-Fascist Coalition Blocs Up to Confront “Anti-Sharia” White Supremacists - It's Going Down


----------



## Corax (Jun 13, 2017)

cantsin said:


> cldnt get this out of my head - what do you mean exactly ? ( ie : to engage / discuss with the bloke ? )


Exactly that.  The EDL-aligned bloke was happy to stand and debate, was clearly not an out-and-out ideological fascist, and the opportunity was there to engage with him in a way that would at least sow some seeds of doubt in his mind (as some were attempting to do), and at best to bring him over to the side of the angels.  Instead he went away with his worst preconceptions of antifa having been reinforced, an encounter which he'll surely now recount to many others in his social circle who are currently in two minds.

I'm all for intimidation and abuse of fash where needed or useful, but as a one-size-fits-all response to anyone finding themselves in the company of the far right - particularly at events like this which were clearly designed to present themselves as something else - it's counter-productive.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 13, 2017)

Corax said:


> Exactly that.  The EDL-aligned bloke was happy to stand and debate, was clearly not an out-and-out ideological fascist, and the opportunity was there to engage with him in a way that would at least sow some seeds of doubt in his mind (as some were attempting to do), and at best to bring him over to the side of the angels.  Instead he went away with his worst preconceptions of antifa having been reinforced, an encounter which he'll surely now recount to many others in his social circle who are currently in two minds.
> 
> I'm all for intimidation and abuse of fash where needed or useful, but as a one-size-fits-all response to anyone finding themselves in the company of the far right - particularly at events like this which were clearly designed to present themselves as something else - it's counter-productive.



agree 100% - and with cameras there, its everywhere now. V depressing that it had to be her, there, then. The bloke was willing to talk, she just shouted in his face, v v frustrating this.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 13, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Last weekend AFA/HnH/SUTR/UAF took their eyes off the ball and the fascists got a boost. The way to counter that isn't to agree that Muslims are the problem, but to get out there and expose the real nature of the hardened fascists to the audience they trying to pull behind them.
> 
> .



so you think bigger mobilisation in Manc was the answer ? The fascist's 'boost' was from a reasonably well attended march, around an ostensibly non racist theme that they're always going to do well with, 2 weeks after a savage terror attack. Not sure bigger , or more militant oppo would have helped diminish that boost, even if engagement had help expose the fash core in the march ?


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 13, 2017)

cantsin said:


> so you think bigger mobilisation in Manc was the answer ?


part of


----------



## Corax (Jun 13, 2017)

cantsin said:


> agree 100% - and with cameras there, its everywhere now. V depressing that it had to be her, there, then. The bloke was willing to talk, she just shouted in his face, v v frustrating this.


I don't 'blame' her as an individual tbh.  She was clearly angry, and I know full well how that kind of anger can turn the most eloquent people into incoherent shouty idiots.  I kept wanting someone else to step in and take over, but there's a whole separate politics in play there - especially as everyone around her appeared to be male.  Very frustrating to watch though.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 13, 2017)

Corax said:


> I don't 'blame' her as an individual tbh.  She was clearly angry, and I know full well how that kind of anger can turn the most eloquent people into incoherent shouty idiots.  I kept wanting someone else to step in and take over, but there's a whole separate politics in play there - especially as everyone around her appeared to be male.  Very frustrating to watch though.



all true


----------



## bimble (Jun 13, 2017)

If it hadn't gone so badly - if she'd been able to put in a good argument - we'd probably never have seen it, as Oik says it's 'the patriots' who get to cover these things on YouTube and social media.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 13, 2017)

though on other hand, the idea that the Manc march was some broad based anti hate / anti jihadist march is prob giving it more credit than it deserves :


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 13, 2017)

2 things: many antifa do not carry cameras lest they get seized and incriminating footage is culled before editing and obscuring faces. We had loads of photos/footage of demos but deleted it all etc. ages ago which is why we never put them on the blog but use MSM ones. 
the demo on sunday was a total surprise. there were people clearly confused about the real nature of it, ie, EDL, TRs little slags (even Beaker KKKev Karol turned out) and expressed genuine concern over terror incidents. 
there was a counter demo by gay community and UAF who no doubt expected the usual 200. 
the main question is, can they repeat it? there are many who will not stand with TR but counting on the far right to fragment every 3 weeks is hardly strategy. 
i'm sure the omniscient Butchers (who runs the world wide digitised super-highway) will have all the answers.


----------



## Sweet FA (Jun 13, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> the main question is, can they repeat it? there are many who will not stand with TR but counting on the far right to fragment every 3 weeks is hardly strategy.
> i'm sure the omniscient Butchers (who runs the world wide digitised super-highway) will have all the answers.


Tag him and find out rather than have a snide dig.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 13, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> the main question is, can they repeat it?




We'll find out in London in a fortnight.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 13, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I know a few blokes , who I am on good terms with, who will say that Tommy Robinson says says some good things. ie that he is against Islamic terrorism, the burkha and sharia law. Of course I tell them that he has another agenda and that he gets support from the far right but they'll come back and say why aren't the left doing something about it. so I tell them about the dozen or so fighting alongside the Kurds actually doing something to fight ISIS and then they'll say why don't the left hold demonstration over here supporting the fighters and against Islamic extremism , the burkha and sharia law. And then I get stuck . We've missed an opportunity and that's why people like that black lad , the Asian girl in the Union Jack and no doubt a couple of hundred others joined Robinsons demo. Of course there were some nazis on it but there would have been a lot more non nazis on it as well.



The Left has certainly held demos in favour of the Kurdish struggle. 

Against the burkha and sharia law? How would that work in practice? Do we want the situation we had in France where it ended up with armed police forcing women to strip on the beach?


----------



## Corax (Jun 13, 2017)

Sweet FA said:


> Tag him and find out rather than have a snide dig.


Who, butchersapron ?  

_*walks away whistling* _


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 14, 2017)

Sweet FA said:


> Tag him and find out rather than have a snide dig.



there are very few on here as snidey as that fuckbiscuit.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 14, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> We'll find out in London in a fortnight.



he's pulled out.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 14, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> he's pulled out.



Postponed. Still in London this week we have Crossland's EDL and something new called the "Football Lads Alliance" or "Football Lads against Extremism"


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 14, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Postponed. Still in London this week we have Crossland's EDL and something new called the "Football Lads Alliance" or "Football Lads against Extremism"


Can't make that, but in Brum next weekend we have Britain Farts.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 15, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> there are very few on here as snidey as that fuckbiscuit.


Care to expand on that ?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 15, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> The Left has certainly held demos in favour of the Kurdish struggle.
> 
> Against the burkha and sharia law? How would that work in practice? Do we want the situation we had in France where it ended up with armed police forcing women to strip on the beach?


Or where women in Iran wear white to protest about compulsory head scarfs ?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 15, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Care to expand on that ?



"He makes me feel uncomfortable".


----------



## no-no (Jun 15, 2017)

Corax said:


> Historic and well-founded resistance to being filmed may play a part.  FIT, Redwatch etc.



What are FIT and Redwatch?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 15, 2017)

no-no said:


> What are FIT and Redwatch?


police intelligence officers- they film and stalk. 
Redwatch is assorted fash stalking left wingers, often completely getting details wrong but there you go


----------



## no-no (Jun 15, 2017)

gothca, cheers


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 15, 2017)

19force8 said:


> The British left has many weaknesses, but it's ability to relate to and work with Muslim minorities is not one of them. If they had taken the approach you suggest they would have cheered on Blair's invasions and Cameron's bombing missions *. They would demonise the entire Muslim community and support (nay initiate) bans on headscarves in schools etc, etc.
> 
> The end result would have been TR at the head of 200,000 in Manchester and a virtual lockdown in Muslim areas.
> 
> ...



You are right the British left has weakness and its ability not to recognise its weakness is probably its biggest especially its inate ability to cosy up to many Muslim organisations simply because  they are muslim rather than for their politics. Whether this be with the Labour Party for votes, or the SWP for 'united fronts of a special kind' or just the general swamp type of we'll back anything anyone if it looks like its opposed to America its record is emabarassing.  Seperate seating arrangements for men and women, platforms with CAGE, platforms with MAB, backing and even worse defending  Luftar Rahman, the entire RESPECT project, an appauling silence on FGM, and an utter failure to confront reactionary preachers, would be jihaadist groups and those who are against the rights that we as the workling class and left fought for.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 15, 2017)

RESPECT ran them into  the ground as racist. It was anarchists and non-dom - types who did it. Same as UBA shit.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 15, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Or where women in Iran wear white to protest about compulsory head scarfs ?



That's a movement that's emerged directly from the people affected by Irans compulsory hijab laws. Is there a UK equivalent that you're aware of?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 16, 2017)

I am not going to spoonfeed you , have a look at some of the discussions by Muslims in the UK on the net , on Twitter about how the Islamacists and conservatives have been allowed to dominate the agenda very often aided by the left


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 16, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I am not going to spoonfeed you , have a look at some of the discussions by Muslims in the UK on the net , on Twitter about how the Islamacists and conservatives have been allowed to dominate the agenda very often aided by the left



How's your support going?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 20, 2017)

Just watching Tommy on GMB lolololololol


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 20, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> there are very few on here as snidey as that fuckbiscuit.



Don't be a dick. Butchers experience and insight is worth a hundred of yours.


----------



## malatesta32 (Jun 21, 2017)

)*(   fuck off clueless sycophant.


----------



## Ptolemy (Jun 22, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> You are right the British left has weakness and its ability not to recognise its weakness is probably its biggest especially its inate ability to cosy up to many Muslim organisations simply because  they are muslim rather than for their politics. Whether this be with the Labour Party for votes, or the SWP for 'united fronts of a special kind' or just the general swamp type of we'll back anything anyone if it looks like its opposed to America its record is emabarassing.  Seperate seating arrangements for men and women, platforms with CAGE, platforms with MAB, backing and even worse defending  Luftar Rahman, the entire RESPECT project, an appauling silence on FGM, and an utter failure to confront reactionary preachers, would be jihaadist groups and those who are against the rights that we as the workling class and left fought for.



This is the problem with uncritical "anti-imperialist" projects. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. To be true to socialist politics means to fight all injustice on every front - wherever and whatever it may be. 

When you see or hear people referring to "Comrade Mugabe", you know something's gone horribly wrong somewhere.


----------



## killer b (Jun 22, 2017)

Surely none but the truly deranged would refer to comrade Mugabe? The something that's gone wrong there isn't in the British left...

While there is a great deal of sloppy thinking on the left, I think There's also an issue with the views of fringe nutcases being given more prominence than they should be.


----------



## Ptolemy (Jun 22, 2017)

Not necessarily the British left, although I have seen it in some nominally "leftist" places online. 

Perhaps too much of a fringe example, a better one might be the divide over the Ba'athist regime in Syria (though the rise of the Syrian Kurds has given a more positive force to rally behind in that particular conflict) And yes, the more "out there" elements tend to be louder or more noticeable than the majority of the left. It just feels sometimes though that there's too much binary thinking about issues like this, and not enough nuanced judgement.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> )*(   fuck off clueless sycophant.


Stethoscope ?


----------



## Sue (Jun 24, 2017)

Loads and loads of police in Gracechurch Street earlier, assume it's because there's an EDL march on later. (Well according to the Standard anyway.) 

Need to head into town in a bit -- I'm near London Bridge at the moment -- and apparently there's some counter-demo heading this way. May need to do a detour to avoid it all.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 24, 2017)

Two marches apparently. One near St Paul's / London Bridge, which seems to be much larger than the tiny EDL one at Charing Cross - literally 40 of them tops. Not sure who the first one was; I've seen banners saying "Football Lads Alliance"? (Just on Twitter, I'm nowhere near them myself.)


----------



## ddraig (Jun 24, 2017)

Is it the London version of the "march against hate" that had a load out in Manchester recently?


----------



## Ole (Jun 24, 2017)

It's not EDL it's the 'Football Lads Alliance', a Facebook group. Huge turnout from football firms here, mainly London and the South but Northern as well.


----------



## Ole (Jun 24, 2017)

Short interview at 42:25.


----------



## Sue (Jun 24, 2017)

Tight security on the door of the Wetherspoons in Gracechurch Street,  loads of men drinking in Leadenhall Market -- not normally round those parts on a Saturday and surprised these pubs are even open. Lots more cops at Liverpool St.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 24, 2017)

Nothing on BBC, Guardian or Standard, so looks like it's being ignored. Looks like a large march and peaceful, 8000 or so football fans from loads of clubs. The demand is that the government act against the jihadists they have on their dangerous list.

From the videos it doesn't look as intimidating as the EDL stuff, at least not to me.

Interview with organizer where he says they didn't want it to be about England.



It can only be viewed in youtube apparently, just click on the link on the grey screen.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 24, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Nothing on BBC, Guardian or Standard, so looks like it's being ignored. Looks like a large march and peaceful, 8000 or so football fans from loads of clubs. The demand is that the government act against the jihadists they have on their dangerous list.
> 
> From the videos it doesn't look as intimidating as the EDL stuff, at least not to me.
> 
> ...




Lets face it if the left, TUC or anyone else called a demo against terrorism many posters on here, including me would be backing it .Football supporters are no different from most voters. There is a genuine problem for antifa types in how they intervene in what is a changing landscape.They are seen as single issue activists who don't address the wider fears many people have and have no connection with the mood on the ground within the w/class .Simply identifying fascists and right wingers who may or may not be involved just doesn't cut it . People are more worried about Islamic terrorism than the neo nazis  or EDL  and this needs to be thought through carefully. The fact that the left is generally silent on activity where the Islamic far right are concerned  poses some difficulty imo. 
Re watching that video of the black bloke and the anti nazi in Manchester raised a lot of questions for me about how this matter could be better approached.


----------



## Arbeter Fraynd (Jun 24, 2017)

there's been a lot of accusations on here that Antifa ignore Islamic fascism.  You do know that there are Antifa activists actually fighting Isis in Kurdistan, right?  Literally involved in the armed struggle against Islamic fascism.  And AFN analysis consistently draws connections between the two.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 25, 2017)

Arbeter Fraynd said:


> there's been a lot of accusations on here that Antifa ignore Islamic fascism.  You do know that there are Antifa activists actually fighting Isis in Kurdistan, right?  Literally involved in the armed struggle against Islamic fascism.  And AFN analysis consistently draws connections between the two.


For whom ( those fighting)  I have the utmost respect for. Hence me saying antifa types rather than singling out a particular organisation.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 25, 2017)

Wont link but dailymail has a video of Tommy fighting some guy at Ascot or some shit.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 25, 2017)

props where it's due,  the FLA were hardcore on the 'no violence/no racism' front in the build up ( certainly on the Spurs forum)  and they seemed to have pulled it off.

Opposing this march would have been a mistake on all fronts imo , ideologically, and in practical terms ( current antifa vs that load of grizzlers would have been big old mismatch) .

They're all getting enthusiastic about where they go from here, but not sure 'anti extremism' is much of a platform to actually build on, + they're immediately coming face to face with one of the harsh realities of street protest - orderly, non violent protest of a few thousand = zero press coverage, little online buzz, so what kind of political pressure is that putting on anyone / anything ....


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 25, 2017)

What's Tommy up to here:


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 25, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> What's Tommy up to here:




defending him self, duh......


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> What's Tommy up to here:



booking a room at his favorite hotel chain, HMP.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 25, 2017)

tbf, sounds like TR didn't start that....


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 25, 2017)

cantsin said:


> tbf, sounds like TR didn't start that....



Well unless you class the constant shite he pumps out online as not provoking anything


----------



## cantsin (Jun 25, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well unless you class the constant shite he pumps out online as not provoking anything



true


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 25, 2017)

.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 25, 2017)

cantsin said:


> props where it's due,  the FLA were hardcore on the 'no violence/no racism' front in the build up ( certainly on the Spurs forum)  and they seemed to have pulled it off.
> 
> Opposing this march would have been a mistake on all fronts imo , ideologically, and in practical terms ( current antifa vs that load of grizzlers would have been big old mismatch) .
> 
> They're all getting enthusiastic about where they go from here, but not sure 'anti extremism' is much of a platform to actually build on, + they're immediately coming face to face with one of the harsh realities of street protest - orderly, non violent protest of a few thousand = zero press coverage, little online buzz, so what kind of political pressure is that putting on anyone / anything ....



Realistically this is why it wasn't opposed. I think people are adopting a wait and see approach.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 25, 2017)

?


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 25, 2017)

cantsin said:


> tbf, sounds like TR didn't start that....



Yes , but his reaction goes well beyond self defence.  Apparently he wasn't nicked though.


----------



## Nigel (Jun 25, 2017)

Out of curiosity whose the Sikh guy they dragged out !
Anyone know anything about him or his background ?

The Blue Costume & Saffron Turban may signify that he is part of a sect and/or splinter from traditional Sikhism: *Bandai Sikhs !*
After defeat & humiliation by Mughals under leadership of '11th Guru': Banda Bahadur Singh they may have developed a myth system and histrionics that is fundamentally Islamophobic being enhanced by the privileged position given after Indian Uprising/Mutiny, diaspora and divisive horrors of partition !

Been told by friends who've stayed in Sikh areas in Punjab that groups of Sikhs dressed in similar fashion are quite numerous; practising Gatka, Smoking Bhang & jumping public transport !

Could also have connotations & links to Kh@listan, Bhindranwale,Communalists/Right Nationalists in KRP & SAD and their connections & electoral alliances and agreements with BJP !

Are these 'figureheads' representing Sikh community another bunch of Right Wing 'fundamentalists' capitalising on Islamophobia and the fall out of the west's debacle of neo colonial foreign policy ?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 25, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Realistically this is why it wasn't opposed. I think people are adopting a wait and see approach.



Wait and see what?


----------



## Nigel (Jun 25, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Out of curiosity whose the Sikh guy they dragged out !
> Anyone know anything about him or his background ?
> 
> The Blue Costume & Saffron Turban may signify that he is part of a sect and/or splinter from traditional Sikhism: *Bandai Sikhs !*
> ...



Apparently the guy's name is Mohan Singh who spoke with T. R. in Manchester !


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 25, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Wait and see what?



What it turns into.


----------



## Ole (Jun 25, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Out of curiosity whose the Sikh guy they dragged out !
> Anyone know anything about him or his background ?
> 
> The Blue Costume & Saffron Turban may signify that he is part of a sect and/or splinter from traditional Sikhism: *Bandai Sikhs !
> ...



Was resistance to Islamic imperialism fundamentally Islamophobic as well?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 26, 2017)

It seems surreal that in the UK today the only group protesting for the government to act more firmly on the question of radicalization are a newly formed facebook group of football fans, whilst from all other political groups there appears to be silence on the matter. No one, except a couple of mediatic right wingers, is talking about the estimated 400 or so jihadists who have returned from Syria after joining and being part of the isis death cult, it's as if that didn't matter, like it's ok for them to walk amongst us now as they don't pose a threat.

The official narrative is for us to keep calm and carry on and don't hold any politicians to account, but the reality is the intelligence services have very seriously failed and the recent terrorist attacks could have been stopped, after all they knew who they were and had loads of warnings, yet here we are with murderers in our midst and carrying on like it were a subject best avoided.

what do the fighters who have gone from the UK to fight isis think of that?


----------



## IC3D (Jun 26, 2017)

I am pretty impressed by FLA, looking at FB there are lots of football fans telling EDL/fash to do one.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 26, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> It seems surreal that in the UK today the only group protesting for the government to act more firmly on the question of radicalization are a newly formed facebook group of football fans, whilst from all other political groups there appears to be silence on the matter. No one, except a couple of mediatic right wingers, is talking about the estimated 400 or so jihadists who have returned from Syria after joining and being part of the isis death cult, it's as if that didn't matter, like it's ok for them to walk amongst us now as they don't pose a threat.
> 
> The official narrative is for us to keep calm and carry on and don't hold any politicians to account, but the reality is the intelligence services have very seriously failed and the recent terrorist attacks could have been stopped, after all they knew who they were and had loads of warnings, yet here we are with murderers in our midst and carrying on like it were a subject best avoided.
> 
> what do the fighters who have gone from the UK to fight isis think of that?


what are YOU doing about any of it?


----------



## IC3D (Jun 26, 2017)

Somewhat illustrating the point ddraig


----------



## ddraig (Jun 26, 2017)

IC3D said:


> Somewhat illustrating the point ddraig


me or annuder oink? 
agree that it's good to see the FLA fucking off the fash groups


----------



## IC3D (Jun 26, 2017)

All of us really ddraig , I don't get why as a whole nothing was done ages ago about salafi twats on the streets.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

IC3D said:


> All of us really ddraig , I don't get why as a whole nothing was done ages ago about salafi twats on the streets.



Britain has dishonourable tradition of complicity with extremists

could this have something to do with it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> It seems surreal that in the UK today the only group protesting for the government to act more firmly on the question of radicalization are a newly formed facebook group of football fans, whilst from all other political groups there appears to be silence on the matter.


pls tell me this isn't another of those times when you get humiliated


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> pls tell me this isn't another of those times when you get humiliated



These forums are not about you and your desire to squabble with everyone. You have been told loads of times how tiresome you are. Why don't you just respect the boards and debate the issues and make a political point or something rather than try to turn everything into a personal bun fight?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> These forums are not about you and your desire to squabble with everyone. You have been told loads of times how tiresome you are. Why don't you just respect the boards and debate the issues and make a political point or something rather than try to turn everything into a personal bun fight?


i'm not. i'm thinking of the hideous embarrassment you had recently when you called us all fascists for disagreeing with tim pool, for example. and here again you're putting yourself out on a limb which also seems likely to end in your blushes.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Well for one only liberals would be demanding the authorities do more, if they weren't keeping quiet on the matter, and there are groups on the left who have positions on it.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well for one only liberals would be demanding the authorities do more, if they weren't keeping quiet on the matter, and there are groups on the left who have positions on it.



I'm interested to see these positions? Got any links?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 26, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I'm interested to see these positions? Got any links?


so you can look up and find positions of those on the right but not those on the left?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 26, 2017)

IC3D said:


> All of us really ddraig , I don't get why as a whole nothing was done ages ago about salafi twats on the streets.


In my naive simplistic view if these extremists were marching in towns and cities up and down the country and making loads of noise they'd be opposed more vigorously wouldn't they?
not to say they and their shite shouldn't be/have been confronted/dealt with


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I'm interested to see these positions? Got any links?



www.network23.org/ra


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well for one only liberals would be demanding the authorities do more, if they weren't keeping quiet on the matter, and there are groups on the left who have positions on it.


quite so. certainly antifa opposed the islamicist fascists as well as the other ones


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

ddraig said:


> so you can look up and find positions of those on the right but not those on the left?


there's something sinister about that


----------



## ddraig (Jun 26, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> What's Tommy up to here:


more video apparently and account of bus driver who drove TR there but refused to let him back on coach
The full tape of Tommy Robinson fight shows bloodied victim barely able to walk


----------



## Ole (Jun 26, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> It seems surreal that in the UK today the only group protesting for the government to act more firmly on the question of radicalization are a newly formed facebook group of football fans, whilst from all other political groups there appears to be silence on the matter. No one, except a couple of mediatic right wingers, is talking about the estimated 400 or so jihadists who have returned from Syria after joining and being part of the isis death cult, it's as if that didn't matter, like it's ok for them to walk amongst us now as they don't pose a threat.
> 
> The official narrative is for us to keep calm and carry on and don't hold any politicians to account, but the reality is the intelligence services have very seriously failed and the recent terrorist attacks could have been stopped, after all they knew who they were and had loads of warnings, yet here we are with murderers in our midst and carrying on like it were a subject best avoided.
> 
> what do the fighters who have gone from the UK to fight isis think of that?


It's almost like all these political groups aren't worth the steam off our piss, isn't it?


----------



## Corax (Jun 26, 2017)

There was a pithy comment on one of the topical comedy shows a week or so ago.  It was to the effect that there are 20,000 people on the terrorism watch list, and May's policing cuts totalled... 20,000.  So instead of the cuts they could have set up a man-marking system.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 26, 2017)

The labour party manifesto has some basic comment but it isn't specific enough to really see what they propose, what's more nothing is being said aloud publicly even after Manchester, Westminster and Borough market:

_"we will address the government’s failure to take any effective new measures against a growing problem of extreme or violent radicalisation".
_
For government failure they could perhaps point out the relationship between the manchester bomber and the british government who sponsored his father's militia.


----------



## editor (Jun 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not. i'm thinking of the hideous embarrassment you had recently when you called us all fascists for disagreeing with tim pool, for example. and here again you're putting yourself out on a limb which also seems likely to end in your blushes.


Please keep cross thread personal beef out of this. Thanks.


----------



## Ole (Jun 26, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Out of curiosity whose the Sikh guy they dragged out !
> Anyone know anything about him or his background ?
> 
> The Blue Costume & Saffron Turban may signify that he is part of a sect and/or splinter from traditional Sikhism: *Bandai Sikhs !*
> ...



I'm still wound up about this.

Do you refer to all imperialist colonialist subjugation in terms of "defeat and humiliation" of its victims Nigel? 

What the fuck is wrong with you?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 26, 2017)

IC3D said:


> All of us really ddraig , I don't get why as a whole nothing was done ages ago about salafi twats on the streets.


the Kurds in London had no hesitation


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 26, 2017)

I can only think of one actual mobilisation by antifascists against Islamacists and that was the time the UBA were joined by the Sikhs and a delegation from antifascists. Has anyone any more examples?


----------



## IC3D (Jun 26, 2017)

I've posted that very clip myself as it is on my doorstep The39thStep  they aren't who I'm talking about, they certainly don't represent the broader left in this country. Salafist rocking up in Wood Green got it handed to them and a great job was done kicking fuck out of them, they had been hanging around like a bad fart for a while. I have Kurdish mates, been on demos and bunging the odd tenner to YPG for a goodwhile


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I can only think of one actual mobilisation by antifascists against Islamacists and that was the time the UBA were joined by the Sikhs and a delegation from antifascists. Has anyone any more examples?


Er the Sikhs were up by the national gallery and the uba were in trafalgar Sq and antifa were somewhere in between


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 26, 2017)

IC3D said:


> I've posted that very clip myself as it is on my doorstep The39thStep  they aren't who I'm talking about, they certainly don't represent the broader left in this country. Salafist rocking up in Wood Green got it handed to them and a great job was done kicking fuck out of them, they had been hanging around like a bad fart for a while. I have Kurdish mates, been on demos and bunging the odd tenner to YPG for a goodwhile


I agree with you mate. I was trying to illustrates that there are those who know a fascist when they see one and have no hesitation in doing something about it. Its the left that have the problems  .


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Er the Sikhs were up by the national gallery and the uba were in trafalgar Sq and antifa were somewhere in between


Yes that the only one that I remember.The UBA as I recall were both confused and a little hostile as I recall.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I can only think of one actual mobilisation by antifascists against Islamacists and that was the time the UBA were joined by the Sikhs and a delegation from antifascists. Has anyone any more examples?



Certainly the AFN has mobilised in support of Kurdish  pro Rojava demos.  

How do you suggest anti fascists mobilise against Wahabists or Jihadists short of travelling to Syria?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Certainly the AFN has mobilised in support of Kurdish  pro Rojava demos.
> 
> How do you suggest anti fascists mobilise against Wahabists or Jihadists short of travelling to Syria?



They do flyer handouts in locations around London.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They do flyer handouts in locations around London.


Pre announced or flash demo style?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Pre announced or flash demo style?



Not pre-announced as far as I'm aware.


----------



## Ole (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Certainly the AFN has mobilised in support of Kurdish  pro Rojava demos.
> 
> How do you suggest anti fascists mobilise against Wahabists or Jihadists short of travelling to Syria?




If they can mobilise in support of Rojava demos is it beyond their wit to do so in demos against jihadists? A Facebook group of football fans just did it and turned out strongly.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Ole said:


> If they can mobilise in support of Rojava demos is it beyond their wit to do so in demos against jihadists? A Facebook group of football fans just did it and turned out strongly.



Crack on and organise it.


----------



## Ole (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Crack on and organise it.


Without you, yeah?


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Ole said:


> Without you, yeah?



However you want to do it.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not pre-announced as far as I'm aware.


That obviously makes it difficult to counter. Intelligence gathering in those circles is going to
present difficulties for your average lefty as well. That's just the practicalities.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> That obviously makes it difficult to counter. Intelligence gathering in those circles is going to
> present difficulties for your average lefty as well. That's just the practicalities.



Most people are creatures of habit. They slip into routines. They don't mysteriously appear randomly. It isn't intel intensive.


----------



## Ole (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> However you want to do it.


What the fuck does that mean  

This was about the suggestion of 'antifa' mobilising against jihadists/Islamists (and your counter-suggestion that it would be impossible to do, short of going to Syria and picking up a rifle).

You seem to have relented that it is not impossible, but you're not willing to say whether you or your antifa pals are willing to demonstrate? That was the whole point of the argument mate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They do flyer handouts in locations around London.


Yeh. Which locations & when?


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Ole said:


> What the fuck does that mean
> 
> This was about the suggestion of 'antifa' mobilising against jihadists/Islamists (and your counter-suggestion that it would be impossible to do, short of going to Syria and picking up a rifle).
> 
> You seem to have relented that it is not impossible, but you're not willing to say whether you or your antifa pals are willing to demonstrate? That was the whole point of the argument mate.



What about you and your 'antifa' pals? What do you think?


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Most people are creatures of habit. They slip into routines. They don't mysteriously appear randomly. It isn't intel intensive.



Please organise it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Please organise it.



What makes you think I haven't?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. Which locations & when?



You want to share intel? You haven't previously.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You want to share intel? You haven't previously.


Don't think you've ever asked


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Don't think you've ever asked



Good point!


----------



## Ole (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> What about you and your 'antifa' pals? What do you think?


Your 4th dodge of the question is noted.

I'm not antifa, and I don't think they are willing to demonstrate against Islamism, which is why they've never done it, and why you keep dodging the question.

Maybe I'll turn out at the next FLA demo.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Certainly the AFN has mobilised in support of Kurdish  pro Rojava demos.
> 
> How do you suggest anti fascists mobilise against Wahabists or Jihadists short of travelling to Syria?



I think its about confronting the Islamacist mileu as well as the would be jihaddists.Heres a few ideas to start the discusion with, other posters will probably have better ideas.

I think the starting point would be to acknowledge the fact that more working class people are worried about Islamic terrorism than they are about nazis issue and a notice of intent that anti fascism is about confronting all forms of fascism.

1) being at the forefront of opposing any Islamic Society at University that promotes or supports jihaadism or uses quotes from speakers that do ie Durham University last month,
2) gather intelligence about where Islamacists give out leaflets or have stalls , confront and expose them
3) expose and challange the Islamacists on social media like Twitter and Facebook
4)start a dialogue with those who maybe patriotic but are not fascist setting out what your position is regarding the Islamaicsts and the jihaadists. Get a foot in the door with the thousands like that black bloke who out argued the woman in Manchester on YouTube.
5) start a dialogue with those activists who are muslim about raising the profile of opposition, support those who oppose the Islamacists
6) dont be scared to call out the backwardness of conservative Islam and proudly defend values of equality, fraternity and working class unity


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I think its about confronting the Islamacist mileu as well as the would be jihaddists.Heres a few ideas to start the discusion with, other posters will probably have better ideas.
> 
> I think the starting point would be to acknowledge the fact that more working class people are worried about Islamic terrorism than they are about nazis issue and a notice of intent that anti fascism is about confronting all forms of fascism.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a plan.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Ole said:


> Your 4th dodge of the question is noted.
> 
> I'm not antifa, and I don't think they are willing to demonstrate against Islamism, which is why they've never done it, and why you keep dodging the question.
> 
> Maybe I'll turn out at the next FLA demo.



Note away and fill yer boots with THE FLA.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Ole said:


> Your 4th dodge of the question is noted.
> 
> I'm not antifa, and I don't think they are willing to demonstrate against Islamism, which is why they've never done it, and why you keep dodging the question.
> 
> Maybe I'll turn out at the next FLA demo.



If you're not anti fascist then why do you want to demonstrate against the Jihadists?

Why do you think 'antifa' should?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Sounds like a plan.


Its more of starting point for a discussion tbh


----------



## Ole (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> If you're not anti fascist then why do you want to demonstrate against the Jihadists?





Red Sky said:


> Why do you think 'antifa' should?


You fucking dick 

'Antifa' don't have a monopoly on opposition to fascism and 'antifa' should demonstrate against jihadists because they're scumbags and a mortal threat to lives and democracy.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 26, 2017)

Semantics. 'Antifa' doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. Nowadays it seems to be synonymous with black bloc demo chic.

That was in response to red sky


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Semantics. 'Antifa' doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. Nowadays it seems to be synonymous with black bloc demo chic.
> 
> That was in response to red sky



I can't stand the word myself. It doesn't really mean anything in English. Not really useful for explaining what you're about or getting support.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 26, 2017)

Ole said:


> You fucking dick
> 
> 'Antifa' don't have a monopoly on opposition to fascism and 'antifa' should demonstrate against jihadists because they're scumbags and a mortal threat to lives and democracy.



By that standard everyone should be demonstrating against them surely?
I'm not sure you've really got a point.  Are you trying to suggest there's something hypocritical about opposing, say the National Front, without devoting an equal amount of energy, using similar tactics to opposing jihadists?


----------



## Nigel (Jun 26, 2017)

Ole said:


> I'm still wound up about this.
> 
> Do you refer to all imperialist colonialist subjugation in terms of "defeat and humiliation" of its victims Nigel?
> 
> What the fuck is wrong with you?


I'm referring to histrionics by break off sects developing after Bluestar, how these reactionary groups gained power & influence after the fall of Berlin Wall(See copies of Congressional Report: Council Of Kh@l1stan) !
*Banda Bahadur Singh *is not seen by mainstream Sikhs as a Guru !

The last 10th Guru is Gobind Singh, after that the Sikh Holy Book Guru Granth Sahib metaphysically becomes in some weird and wonderful way the final Guru !

As far as the Mughals, colonialism and Sikh mythology & histrionics go some Mughal rulers; specifically Akbar are seen in a positive light; encouraging religious freedom, opposing caste system, inter religious relationships and in a slight racial slur against Hindu high caste & merchants; tall, athletic and light skinned !
Akbar - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

Re-vitalising & promoting Banda Bahudar & dressing up in costume of Religious Sects by people who renounce traditional Sikh texts & regard him as Guru may(more likely does) have definite Islamophobic connotations !


Taking in consideration this in relation with Indian/Southern Asian politics to Shiromani Akali Dal and its closeness to Modi & Bharatiya Janata Party may also be contentious !

Modi vs Rahul battle plays out loud ahead of Punjab polls

Generally by the very nature of imperialism 'defeat & humiliation' are part of the process, along with divide and rule; British Imperialism most classic example is after Indian Uprising/Mutiny 1857 !
https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-British-implement-Divide-and-Rule-policy-in-India
There are certain contradictions & exceptions in my opinion !
E.G. Liberation Of Tibetan Region by Chinese PLA !
(Broadly agree with CPB's position on this)


----------



## Ole (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> By that standard everyone should be demonstrating against them surely?
> I'm not sure you've really got a point.  Are you trying to suggest there's something hypocritical about opposing, say the National Front, without devoting an equal amount of energy, using similar tactics to opposing jihadists?


You are one boring motherfucker.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> By that standard everyone should be demonstrating against them surely?
> I'm not sure you've really got a point.  Are you trying to suggest there's something hypocritical about opposing, say the National Front, without devoting an equal amount of energy, using similar tactics to opposing jihadists?


The thing is, the NF probably has about 39 members. BNP now about 539, most of them inactive. And as 39th Step says above, it's obvious that most working class people are far more concerned, for very good and obvious reason, about jihadis than about the mostly inarticulate and ineffectual blowhards of Britain's far-right.

The concerns are obvious in that to oppose the main fascistic threat-that of the Islamists-invites liberal accusations of racism, but there's no argument about where the main fascistic threat comes from at the moment.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

RD2003 said:


> The thing is, the NF probably has about 39 members. BNP now about 539, most of them inactive. And as 39th Step says above, it's obvious that most working class people are far more concerned, for very good and obvious reason, about jihadis than about the mostly inarticulate and ineffectual blowhards of Britain's far-right.
> 
> The concerns are obvious in that to oppose the main fascistic threat-that of the Islamists-invites liberal accusations of racism, but there's no argument about where the main fascistic threat comes from at the moment.


Me, you and 39th steps have prob been talking about this for twenty years now - maybe at the start point of that debate there was something the organised left or specifically anti-fascist groups could do. Some longer term intervention.  Now there isn't as far as i can see. Just filmed set pieces. Which means, the class rather than the left has to do this.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 27, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Me, you and 39th steps have prob been talking about this for twenty years now - maybe at the start point of that debate there was something the organised left or specifically anti-fascist groups could do. Some longer term intervention.  Now there isn't as far as i can see. Just filmed set pieces. Which means, the class rather than the left has to do this.


Yes-and the class, if only it could be realised, already has a head start.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 27, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Me, you and 39th steps have prob been talking about this for twenty years now - maybe at the start point of that debate there was something the organised left or specifically anti-fascist groups could do. Some longer term intervention.  Now there isn't as far as i can see. Just filmed set pieces. Which means, the class rather than the left has to do this.



what do you think if the FLA, and their relationship to the class ?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 27, 2017)

cantsin said:


> what do you think if the FLA, and their relationship to the class ?


I don't know enough yet and i'm not going on facebook to do research - enough people i can trust to do that. Gen consensus is miles better than UBA were 15 years or whatever a go. Impressive numbers. That might be the problem - you know the weasels are fighting to get in there and hide. I don't go anymore either


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 27, 2017)

cantsin said:


> what do you think if the FLA, and their relationship to the class ?


In terms of class - it's obv far more directly working class in the sense of not being a load of teachers (blair peach was a teacher before anyone thinks i'm sneering) than...here i have nothing to compare it to. A cross class demo like an anti-war thing.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 27, 2017)

Ole said:


> You are one boring motherfucker.



Funny, cos you're the cunt who keeps repeating himself.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 27, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> By that standard everyone should be demonstrating against them surely?
> I'm not sure you've really got a point.  Are you trying to suggest there's something hypocritical about opposing, say the National Front, without devoting an equal amount of energy, using similar tactics to opposing jihadists?


Not sure hypocritical is the right word but if anti fascism is about the defence of the working class then the working class has to be defended


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2017)

Some EDL twat has made the march all about his shitty agenda.


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 27, 2017)

The39thStep I don't agree.

We oppose fascists because of their role in the class struggle. They provide a means by which the ruling class can destroy working class organisation and resistance in times of extreme crisis. The ways we oppose fascists reflect that role - we drive them out of our unions, we deny them the political space to propagandise by refusing to share a platform with them and wherever possible denying them a platform, we make sure they are opposed whenever they try to march or demonstrate, finally, we make it known that they are fascists and not (just?) the patriots or Christians or whatever cover they seek to use.

The various strands of extreme Islamic fundamentalism are unable (and do not seek) to serve the same function in the UK, so they don't present the same threat to the working class. Also, they organise differently and with different goals. Therefore we need to find different ways to oppose them.

What is a march "against extremism" for?

Is it for working with Muslim communities helping them fight the racism discrimination and abuse they face?

Or is it for supporting the government's Prevent programme and getting people to grass on their family and friends for thought crimes?

More importantly, how will such a march be perceived by communities that have faced years of BNP/EDL/NF/BF thugs being escorted through their towns?

This is why "the left" doesn't organise "anti-jihadist" demonstrations. Just as we didn't organise anti-IRA marches during the troubles. In fact we campaigned for Troops Out and in support of the hunger strikers.

The best way for the non-Muslim left in the UK to oppose jihadist terrorism is to provide an alternate pole of attraction through our unions and our parties, by building the fight against racism and fascism, and by opposing bloody imperialist adventures.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 27, 2017)

...and by teaming up with the same top-down muslim political-entrepeneurs that are oppressing muslim communities in the same way as the blair govt teamed up/produced with MCB. A smaller mirror image. But we don't mention RESPECT anymore do we? 

And if you think that islamists aren't seeking to drive a wedge between w/c people then i don't know what country that you're living in - the one where the grey area doesn't exist i suppose. In fact, the creeping-swp analysis behind your tradition argues that the state is seeking to drive a wedge between diff elements of the class through its response to islamists. So you do recognise it, but rather than striking at one of the roots of it - that is actual islamism - you seek to somehow deal rather with the states responses to it. Cop-out.

Islamists as IRA is an odd approach as well.


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 27, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> ...and by teaming up with the same top-down muslim political-entrepeneurs that are oppressing muslim communities in the same way as the blair govt teamed up/produced with MCB. A smaller mirror image. But we don't mention RESPECT anymore do we?
> 
> And if you think that islamists aren't seeking to drive a wedge between w/c people then i don't know what country that you're living in - the one where the grey area doesn't exist i suppose. In fact, the creeping-swp analysis behind your tradition argues that the state is seeking to drive a wedge between diff elements of the class through its response to islamists. So you do recognise it, but rather than striking at one of the roots of it - that is actual islamism - you seek to somehow deal rather with the states responses to it. Cop-out.
> 
> Islamists as IRA is an odd approach as well.


Try replying to what I said, not what you'd have liked me to say.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 27, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Try replying to what I said, not what you'd have liked me to say.



Troops out of Syria?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 27, 2017)

19force8 said:


> The39thStep
> 
> Or is it for supporting the government's Prevent programme and getting people to grass on their family and friends for thought crimes?



Looks like you're defending a hands off strategy where radicalization is concerned, Your use of vocabulary, ie "to grass" shows that you see informing on potential murderers as something to be socially rejected.

Let's see, in 1939 many people were locked up in the UK for "thought crimes", and I'm sure you wouldn't have had a problem with that, they were fascist sympathisers who were considered as potential fifth columnists. Amongst them were leaders of Oswald Mosley's fascist organization and I think there was even a british admiral, someone of the same rank as Nelson.

This week in Spain, A radicalized man was arrested after being "grassed on". He hadn't killed anyone yet but he had downloaded 2 manuals, had links with killers and was recorded by the intelligence services saying he was going to carry out an attack worse than Manchester and against children.

Are you saying that he shouldn't have been arrested?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Looks like you're defending a hands off strategy where radicalization is concerned, Your use of vocabulary, ie "to grass" shows that you see informing on potential murderers as something to be socially rejected.
> 
> Let's see, in 1939 many people were locked up in the UK for "thought crimes", and I'm sure you wouldn't have had a problem with that, they were fascist sympathisers who were considered as potential fifth columnists. Amongst them were leaders of Oswald Mosley's fascist organization and I think there was even a british admiral, someone of the same rank as Nelson.
> 
> ...


You're a potential murderer. Should the police be told to keep an eye on you?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 27, 2017)

19force8 said:


> The39thStep
> 
> What is a march "against extremism" for?
> 
> Is it for working with Muslim communities helping them fight the racism discrimination and abuse they face?



You are too quick to connect racism to an anti-islamic extremism protest, organized in two weeks on facebook, without racism, violence or a route that could intimidate anyone. you are totally out of touch.

The march against extremism was directed against the government because they are doing fuck all about radicalization. There needs to be programmes to offer hope but also some cunts need to be locked up, now. For example, the 400 or so who have returned from being in the Caliphate, directly supporting and being part of a death cult that sells women and girls as slaves, gets children to execute people, burns and drowns prisoners alive, and executes homosexuals by throwing them off of buildings, thse scum need to be rounded up. Don't compare this to the holocaust or internment in Ireland, compare it to the arrest of fascists in 1939 or the british who joined the ss and were afterwards executed for treason, who deserved it.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 27, 2017)

On some football forums they are saying the FLA was a nail in the coffin of the EDL.

Let's hope that on the next march they organize, which I think may attract double the number, they can maintain the code they have established that will keep the right wing extremists cowed and unable to hijack the event.

Gotta love the BBC and the Guardian for their total media blackout of the protest after running articles on how the working class are denied a voice.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> You are too quick to connect racism to an anti-islamic extremism protest, organized in two weeks on facebook, without racism, violence or a route that could intimidate anyone. you are totally out of touch.
> 
> The march against extremism was directed against the government because they are doing fuck all about radicalization. There needs to be programmes to offer hope but also some cunts need to be locked up, now. For example, the 400 or so who have returned from being in the Caliphate, directly supporting and being part of a death cult that sells women and girls as slaves, gets children to execute people, burns and drowns prisoners alive, and executes homosexuals by throwing them off of buildings, thse scum need to be rounded up. Don't compare this to the holocaust or internment in Ireland, compare it to the arrest of fascists in 1939 or the british who joined the ss and were afterwards executed for treason, who deserved it.


If you're going to compare it to the internment of fascists in 1939 then you suggest they pose a proper existential threat like the nazis and fascists of that era, which is proper tosh. And you should be aware that people who weren't fascists, indeed people who were opposed to fascism, were also interned in the round-up, and in these social media times that might not play so well.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> If you're going to compare it to the internment of fascists in 1939 then you suggest they pose a proper existential threat like the nazis and fascists of that era, which is proper tosh. And you should be aware that people who weren't fascists, indeed people who were opposed to fascism, were also interned in the round-up, and in these social media times that might not play so well.



Tosh? Tosh off!!! Of course they pose a fucking threat, where have you been ffs? Try thinking before posting.

I fully support the arrest of all returning from being members of ISIS. They shouldn't be walking amongst us, spreading their influence, none of them. why the soflty softly approach? The government, and I think Theresa May, have so far only arrested one returning murderer. I think that when fascists were interned, the broader population in Britain were quite relieved and I think now, the broader population, including peaceful Muslims, would also feel relieved if these scum are removed from our midst.

Do you recognize that by joining ISIS they have committed a crime against humanity?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> then you suggest they pose a proper existential threat like the nazis and fascists of that era, which is proper tosh.



I dare you to say that aloud in Manchester.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Tosh? Tosh off!!! Of course they pose a fucking threat, where have you been ffs? Try thinking before posting.
> 
> I fully support the arrest of all returning from being members of ISIS. They shouldn't be walking amongst us, spreading their influence, none of them. why the soflty softly approach? The government, and I think Theresa May, have so far only arrested one returning murderer. I think that when fascists were interned, the broader population in Britain were quite relieved and I think now, the broader population, including peaceful Muslims, would also feel relieved if these scum are removed from our midst.
> 
> Do you recognize that by joining ISIS they have committed a crime against humanity?


So you think daesh pose a threat on the same level as hitler


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 27, 2017)

What this guy above does is continually and systematically try to distract and derail whenever I, and others, ask what are for him uncomfortable questions. What he needs to know is that this is a *debating forum* where people's original stance can be swayed in the debate but the debate must be allowed to develop naturally. I think that is a right for everyone who has registered here. So please can we get on with the political debate on the subject and leave out all the superfluous personal bickering adn petty point scoring. 

The question of arresting the radicalized "_before they act_" deserves more mature and thought out debate. It's a subject that obviously brings us to question where the term "radicalization" ends. Maybe it should be debated seriously on another thread?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 27, 2017)

From a look at social so far it seems to me that a lot of the FLA support comes from people who think the EDL are shit - too racist, that's explicitly stated, and I get a sense of too up themselves, trying to promote their own media careers. TR is really not popular. There are definitely white nationalist types trying to promote themselves with it, saying how there's a conspiracy to not show it on the MSM because jews - bots are involved, too many identical posts, but that's par for the course on Twitter these days so may not say much.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 27, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> From a look at social so far it seems to me that a lot of the FLA support comes from people who think the EDL are shit - too racist, that's explicitly stated, and I get a sense of too up themselves, trying to promote their own media careers. TR is really not popular. There are definitely white nationalist types trying to promote themselves with it, saying how there's a conspiracy to not show it on the MSM because jews - bots are involved, too many identical posts, but that's par for the course on Twitter these days so may not say much.



When the EDL started they were keen to disassociate themselves from toxic brands like the NF and the BNP.  Interesting that they are now the benchmark.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 27, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> When the EDL started they were keen to disassociate themselves from toxic brands like the NF and the BNP.  Interesting that they are now the benchmark.


I think TR's media presence has been a large part of it—I get a feeling that people see him as self-interested, trying to boost his own career. But I was at the EDL march last weekend and the whole thing was pretty pathetic. At least a thousand police around and a few dozen tired old casuals giving the finger. Who would want to ally themselves?

I'm making no judgements about the FLA one here btw, though I am definitely very sceptical of the idea that it just spontaneously arose out of a sense of injustice and something needing to be done. Just the focus seems to bely that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I dare you to say that aloud in Manchester.


Have you ever seen a WW2 bomb damage map of Manchester?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 27, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> When the EDL started they were keen to disassociate themselves from toxic brands like the NF and the BNP.  Interesting that they are now the benchmark.


I think then they were testing boundaries, and each other.


----------



## Ole (Jun 27, 2017)

19force8 said:


> The39thStep I don't agree.
> 
> We oppose fascists because of their role in the class struggle. They provide a means by which the ruling class can destroy working class organisation and resistance in times of extreme crisis. The ways we oppose fascists reflect that role - we drive them out of our unions, we deny them the political space to propagandise by refusing to share a platform with them and wherever possible denying them a platform, we make sure they are opposed whenever they try to march or demonstrate, finally, we make it known that they are fascists and not (just?) the patriots or Christians or whatever cover they seek to use.
> 
> ...



"The left" will be like virulent poison to the working-class as long as fucking gimps like you are around to defend jihadists as anti-imperialists by comparing them to the IRA.

'Anti-fascist' my fucking arse.


----------



## Ole (Jun 27, 2017)

19force8 said:


> The39thStep I don't agree.
> 
> We oppose fascists because of their role in the class struggle. They provide a means by which the ruling class can destroy working class organisation and resistance in times of extreme crisis. The ways we oppose fascists reflect that role - we drive them out of our unions, we deny them the political space to propagandise by refusing to share a platform with them and wherever possible denying them a platform, we make sure they are opposed whenever they try to march or demonstrate, finally, we make it known that they are fascists and not (just?) the patriots or Christians or whatever cover they seek to use.
> 
> ...



"I think I'll blow this nail bomb over there and kill as many kids as possible" = 'thought-crime'.

You silly fucking twat.


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 28, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> You are too quick to connect racism to an anti-islamic extremism protest, organized in two weeks on facebook, without racism, violence or a route that could intimidate anyone. you are totally out of touch.


I wasn't talking about the FLA protest, but a hypothetical "left" protest against "extremism" and how that might work.

As regards the FLA protest, I am out of touch. This is partly due to getting back from holiday in time to chase Britain First around Brum, followed by having to dig out a horribly slow old laptop because my computer decided not to boot when I got home. This is why I haven't discussed them. Although I would challenge your assertion that an "anti-Islamic extremism protest" could be non-racist.



Anudder Oik said:


> The march against extremism was directed against the government because they are doing fuck all about radicalization. There needs to be programmes to offer hope but also some cunts need to be locked up, now. For example, the 400 or so who have returned from being in the Caliphate, directly supporting and being part of a death cult that sells women and girls as slaves, gets children to execute people, burns and drowns prisoners alive, and executes homosexuals by throwing them off of buildings, thse scum need to be rounded up. Don't compare this to the holocaust or internment in Ireland, compare it to the arrest of fascists in 1939 or the british who joined the ss and were afterwards executed for treason, who deserved it.


A point I made about our hypothetical protest applies here. How do you think this protest was likely to have been viewed by a Muslim audience? You say it was directed at the government, but only in so far as it wanted them to take a harder line. You also seem to suggest it isn't just the 400 ISIS members in the UK who need locking up without due process. How many did you have in mind? 800? 4000? (btw, where does this 400 figure come from?) How is this anything other than Islamophobia?

And this wouldn't be comparable to internment in Ireland because? Because it wouldn't act as an ideological finishing school? Because it wouldn't be a national and international blot on the reputation of "British justice?" Because it wouldn't lead to the radicalisation of the friends, sympathisers and relatives of the detained?


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> "The left" will be like virulent poison to the working-class as long as fucking gimps like you are around to defend jihadists as anti-imperialists by comparing them to the IRA.
> 
> 'Anti-fascist' my fucking arse.


Where did I defend jihadists?

Where did I call them anti-imperialists?

In fact, where did I compare them to the IRA?

Fuck off you fucking fascist apologist.


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Where did I defend jihadists?
> 
> Where did I call them anti-imperialists?
> 
> ...


In the post I quoted. You fucking gimp. 

Here's another beaut from you:



> I would challenge your assertion that an "anti-Islamic extremism protest" could be non-racist.



You fucking fraud.


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

This cunt 19force8 thinks secular Muslims aren't also anti-jihadist.

So 'anti-racist' he's racist. What a fucking bell-end.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2017)

.


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> In the post I quoted. You fucking gimp.



Look, it ain't rocket science. You accused me of:


Ole said:


> defend[ing] jihadists as anti-imperialists by comparing them to the IRA.


Now you've had time to sober up and calm down maybe you can point out where in the post you quoted I did this.

Or

You could just accept you're wrong and say so. You don't even have to apologise.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 28, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Although I would challenge your assertion that an "anti-Islamic extremism protest" could be non-racist.



Jesus H Christ.



19force8 said:


> A point I made about our hypothetical protest applies here. *How do you think this protest was likely to have been viewed by a Muslim audience?* You say it was directed at the government, but only in so far as it wanted them to take a harder line. You also seem to suggest it isn't just the 400 ISIS members in the UK who need locking up without due process. How many did you have in mind? 800? 4000? (btw, where does this 400 figure come from?) How is this anything other than Islamophobia?
> 
> And this wouldn't be comparable to internment in Ireland because? Because it wouldn't act as an ideological finishing school? Because it wouldn't be a national and international blot on the reputation of "British justice?" Because *it wouldn't lead to the radicalisation of the friends, sympathisers and relatives of the detained?*



You are confusing the broader peaceful muslim population with radicalized elements, as if they have some kind of brotherly bond. You make the perverse assumption that by arresting islamic fascists that this will somehow be an attack on all muslims.

You are equating all muslims with terrorism.


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 28, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> You are confusing the broader peaceful muslim population with radicalized elements, as if they have some kind of brotherly bond. You make the perverse assumption that by arresting islamic fascists that this will somehow be an attack on all muslims.
> 
> You are equating all muslims with terrorism.


I'm not.

Do you want to tell us where you got this figure of 400 from? And how many more you envisage being banged up?


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Look, it ain't rocket science. You accused me of:
> 
> Now you've had time to sober up and calm down maybe you can point out where in the post you quoted I did this.
> 
> ...



Here you are knobhead:


> This is why "the left" doesn't organise "anti-jihadist" demonstrations. Just as we didn't organise anti-IRA marches during the troubles. In fact we campaigned for Troops Out and in support of the hunger strikers.



You have now outdone yourself with the "anti-jihadist demos are racist" post though.

Who is it racist against? Muslims? Are all Muslims sympathetic to jihadists in your view? 

You dickhead.


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> Here you are knobhead:
> 
> "This is why "the left" doesn't organise "anti-jihadist" demonstrations. Just as we didn't organise anti-IRA marches during the troubles. In fact we campaigned for Troops Out and in support of the hunger strikers."


How is this defending jihadist terrorism?

Are you saying you approved of the IRA blowing up, shooting and beating British and Northern Irish citizens?

Because that's the only way that quote can be read as a defence of Jihadist terrorism.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Jesus H Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you've said above there is 'good' internment (e.g. fascists in 1939) and 'bad' internment (e.g. ireland 1971). but as i've pointed out, a number of people who were neither fascists nor sympathetic to fascism were caught up in that. if by some chance you could guarantee that no one was interned who did not need to be, then perhaps your suggestion might not be so daft. but there are no such examples of which i am aware, and should this happen again, as it happened with guantanamo bay, then regardless of the proportion of 'rightfully' interned people, the minority who have been scooped up in error will again overshadow what may otherwise be a largely successful operation.

in addition, daesh and other islamist terrorists pose no existential threat to this country. none whatsoever, your shrill protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. fewer people have been killed by terrorists in the last three years than died in troubles-related events from 1969-august 1971. your dull and repetitious mantra of intern intern intern doesn't recognise the reality, that despite hysterical media coverage the state does not face a serious threat from jihadi terrorists, certainly nothing compared to the threat hitler posed in the late 1930s. this isn't to minimise the threat posed by daesh and its ilk, simply to look at it in the cold light of day and assess its prospects of success in the uk: which are 0.


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

19force8 said:


> How is this defending jihadist terrorism?
> 
> Are you saying you approved of the IRA blowing up, shooting and beating British and Northern Irish citizens?
> 
> Because that's the only way that quote can be read as a defence of Jihadist terrorism.


Bullshit. 

The IRA were anti-imperialist terrorists. You compared them to jihadists. Therefore you think jihadists are anti-imperialists like the IRA. You approve of their theocratic fascist cause. 

You're a poisonous bellend, a jihadist apologist, and an utter fucking fraud.


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> you've said above there is 'good' internment (e.g. fascists in 1939) and 'bad' internment (e.g. ireland 1971). but as i've pointed out, a number of people who were neither fascists nor sympathetic to fascism were caught up in that. if by some chance you could guarantee that no one was interned who did not need to be, then perhaps your suggestion might not be so daft. but there are no such examples of which i am aware, and should this happen again, as it happened with guantanamo bay, then regardless of the proportion of 'rightfully' interned people, the minority who have been scooped up in error will again overshadow what may otherwise be a largely successful operation.
> 
> in addition, daesh and other islamist terrorists pose no existential threat to this country. none whatsoever, your shrill protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. fewer people have been killed by terrorists in the last three years than died in troubles-related events from 1969-august 1971. your dull and repetitious mantra of intern intern intern doesn't recognise the reality, that despite hysterical media coverage the state does not face a serious threat from jihadi terrorists, certainly nothing compared to the threat hitler posed in the late 1930s. this isn't to minimise the threat posed by daesh and its ilk, simply to look at it in the cold light of day and assess its prospects of success in the uk: which are 0.



Who's talking about the threat posed to 'the state'? We're talking about the threat jihadists pose to ordinary civilians and all working-class people, and suggesting that the working-class are rightly concerned about them.

Whereas bellends like 19force8 and perhaps you as well, think the working-class are deluded and should be more concerned about the NF and Tommy Robinson.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> The IRA were anti-imperialist terrorists. You compared them to jihadists. Therefore you think jihadists are anti-imperialists like the IRA. You approve of their theocratic fascist cause.
> 
> You're a poisonous bellend, a jihadist apologist, and an utter fucking fraud.


jesus. comparing a to b else does not mean you think a is b. please engage brain before posting.


----------



## killer b (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> Therefore you think jihadists are anti-imperialists like the IRA. You approve of their theocratic fascist cause.
> 
> You're a poisonous bellend, a jihadist apologist, and an utter fucking fraud.


I'm not sure if this is the best way to talk people round to your point of view.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> Who's talking about the threat posed to 'the state'? We're talking about the threat jihadists pose to ordinary civilians and all working-class people, and suggesting that the working-class are rightly concerned about them.
> 
> Whereas bellends like 19force8 and perhaps you as well, think the working-class are deluded and should be more concerned about the NF and Tommy Robinson.


if you read anudder oik's posts about internment then maybe, just maybe, you'd have some inkling of what i'm talking about.


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> The IRA were anti-imperialist terrorists. You compared them to jihadists. Therefore you think jihadists are anti-imperialists like the IRA. You approve of their theocratic fascist cause.
> 
> You're a poisonous bellend, a jihadist apologist, and an utter fucking fraud.


So in your view the working class was okay with being maimed and murdered by the IRA because it was in a good, anti-imperialist cause. 

And to repeat, I did not compare the IRA to jihadist terrorists.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 28, 2017)

19force8 said:


> I'm not.
> 
> Do you want to tell us where you got this figure of 400 from? And how many more you envisage being banged up?



The BBC estimates that half the 850 who went to Syria have returned. 

*Who are Britain’s jihadists?*
Who are Britain’s jihadists? - BBC News

Click on the "by offenses" option in the interactive chart. It shows the reality of extremists who have been arrested and sentenced for what you call "thought crimes".

There are literally thousands on the intelligence service watch lists in different catagories. One list is 3500 while in Belgium it's 18,000. The Manchester murderer who killed 22 was considered to be on the fringe.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Jun 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> certainly nothing compared to the threat hitler posed in the late 1930s. this isn't to minimise the threat posed by daesh and its ilk, simply to look at it in the cold light of day and assess its prospects of success in the uk: which are 0.



You can substitute Hitler for car accidents if you like, some already have in the relative comparison charts of damage caused by terrorists. I find this logic callous. It seems strange that you're primary concern "in the cold light of day" (I'd say cold heart), is about the threat to the state, which is not even being targeted, and not about the people who are, like the 22 in Manchester.

You say 





Pickman's model said:


> its prospects of success in the uk: which are 0


 but that's not how the terrorists or ordinary potential victims see it. Substitute that 0 for the number of killed and maimed in each attack.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> You can substitute Hitler for car accidents if you like, some already have in the relative comparison charts of damage caused by terrorists. I find this logic callous. It seems strange that you're primary concern "in the cold light of day" (I'd say cold heart), is about the threat to the state, which is not even being targeted, and not about the people who are, like the 22 in Manchester.
> 
> You say  but that's not how the terrorists or ordinary potential victims see it. Substitute that 0 for the number of killed and maimed in each attack.


substitute for 'the state' 'the country' or 'the nation' or whatnot, the point still stands. some people want, for their own nefarious reasons, to talk up the threat from jihadi terrorism. the point of terrorism is to terrorise, and you with your 'let's suspend the rule of law because of a few incidents' does daesh's work for them. the murderous events of recent weeks, vile and deplorable though they are, only pose as much threat to the normal lives of working class people as working class people allow them to. it's not like there's a terrorist on every street corner, or even in every borough, village or town. your exaggerated response shows you have an agenda at work here, and judging by previous agendas you've promoted i don't see it as entirely benign.


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> substitute for 'the state' 'the country' or 'the nation' or whatnot, the point still stands. some people want, for their own nefarious reasons, to talk up the threat from jihadi terrorism. the point of terrorism is to terrorise, and you with your 'let's suspend the rule of law because of a few incidents' does daesh's work for them. the murderous events of recent weeks, vile and deplorable though they are, only pose as much threat to the normal lives of working class people as working class people allow them to. it's not like there's a terrorist on every street corner, or even in every borough, village or town. your exaggerated response shows you have an agenda at work here, and judging by previous agendas you've promoted i don't see it as entirely benign.



I'd like to hear you tell a lad who got his legs blown off in Manchester that the threat from jihadism is all in his head. Tell his daughters he was picking up as well who may be traumatised for life. Are you a fucking sociopath or what?

If jihadism isn't a fucking threat, what's the EDL?


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

About 15,000 people attended that concert in Manchester. The mortal jihadist threat was posed equally to any one of them. Add their family and friends. But yeah no need to be concerned 

In fact they need to be scared of Tommy Robinson because some antifa bellend says so.

Fucking hellfire.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> About 15,000 people attended that concert in Manchester. The mortal jihadist threat was posed equally to any one of them. Add their family and friends. But yeah no need to be concerned
> 
> In fact they need to be scared of Tommy Robinson because some antifa bellend says so.
> 
> Fucking hellfire.



So what are you going to do about it? Apart from gobbing off on here?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> I'd like to hear you tell a lad who got his legs blown off in Manchester that the threat from jihadism is all in his head. Tell his daughters he was picking up as well who may be traumatised for life. Are you a fucking sociopath or what?
> 
> If jihadism isn't a fucking threat, what's the EDL?


yeh. it does help if you reply to what i've written instead of some guff you cobble together in your mind.


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> So what are you going to do about it? Apart from gobbing off on here?


You'd love to know that wouldn't you? 

You carry on sucking their cocks you little gimp.


----------



## Ole (Jun 28, 2017)

killer b said:


> I'm not sure if this is the best way to talk people round to your point of view.


I reserve only contempt for them. There's no persuading them. I talk to normal people like a normal person.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 28, 2017)

get a fucking grip


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 28, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> The BBC estimates that half the 850 who went to Syria have returned.
> 
> *Who are Britain’s jihadists?*
> Who are Britain’s jihadists? - BBC News
> ...



Thanks for the link, so you're expecting 4,000 to be interned eh? Hmmm



Anudder Oik said:


> Click on the "by offenses" option in the interactive chart. It shows the reality of extremists who have been arrested and sentenced for what you call "thought crimes".



Actually these people seem to have been charged and convicted of actual crimes, not detained without trial for things which aren't criminal.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> You'd love to know that wouldn't you?
> 
> You carry on sucking their cocks you little gimp.



Bit early to be that pissed


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2017)

Ole said:


> I reserve only contempt for them. There's no persuading them. I talk to normal people like a normal person.


Not so sure that's true


----------



## Arbeter Fraynd (Jul 3, 2017)

Report and analysis of FLA demo in London, Saturday 24th June


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 3, 2017)

Arbeter Fraynd said:


> Report and analysis of FLA demo in London, Saturday 24th June



Interesting, if a bit sneery.


----------



## juice_terry (Jul 3, 2017)

And possibly a load of nonsense


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 3, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> And possibly a load of nonsense


How so? I think they went on the march as reported.


----------



## juice_terry (Jul 3, 2017)

I don't think they did .. the nonsense of overhearing a group of lads saying they'd dressed casually so not to attract attention from other firms, they could overhear what was said by coppers but couldn't hear the speeches. They use a picture from the daily mail of a twat at an EDL march across town, it has taken 9 days to come up with a pile of toot made up of titbits they've read on social media. They spend the whole article sayoing there was nothing suss about this march and then issue warning that it's going to be the next big neo nazi movement.. I call bullshit


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 3, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> I don't think they did .. the nonsense of overhearing a group of lads saying they'd dressed casually so not to attract attention from other firms, they could overhear what was said by coppers but couldn't hear the speeches. They use a picture from the daily mail of a twat at an EDL march across town, it has taken 9 days to come up with a pile of toot made up of titbits they've read on social media. They spend the whole article sayoing there was nothing suss about this march and then issue warning that it's going to be the next big neo nazi movement.. I call bullshit



Not sure why they used that photo. It undermines what they're saying. But I don't think they talk about neo nazis at all.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 3, 2017)

I'm not too keen on all the self congratulatory "we were right" stuff.  I'm not sure anyone suggested they were wrong.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 3, 2017)

Even being right is wrong now.


----------



## juice_terry (Jul 3, 2017)

Edited I may have been mistaken re rewrite


----------



## Arbeter Fraynd (Jul 4, 2017)

juice_terry said:


> I don't think they did .. .. I call bullshit



wow, the desperate desire of some people on here to attack or ridicule anything post-Red Action antifascists do can be pretty bizarre... for what its worth, you're wrong


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 4, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> How so? I think they went on the march as reported.


Like as not, but maybe a bit of wishful thinking too:


> From our standpoint, the tactic of non-confrontation and being on hand and in numbers close by to react to any potential...


More detail and analysis here:

‘Football Lads Alliance’—the threat of a new racist movement on the streets


----------



## ddraig (Jul 4, 2017)

another view, not read yet
Who are the Football Lads Alliance (FLA)? - Stand Up To Racism


> Toni Bugle spoke on 24 June. She ran as a candidate for the English Democrats, (ex-Nazi British National Party) in 2016. She is one of the organisers of Mothers Against Radical Islam, an organisation exposed by the Daily Mirror on 15 April 2017 as linked to fascist groups. She is also linked to the Nazi English Defence League.
> 
> Gerry Farr, one of the admins on the FLA facebook page seems to be a big fan of ex EDL leader Tommy Robinson, a man who built a career on targeting Muslims and stirring up hatred against them.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 4, 2017)

After youve read it tell us what you think


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 4, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Like as not, but maybe a bit of wishful thinking too:
> 
> More detail and analysis here:
> 
> ‘Football Lads Alliance’—the threat of a new racist movement on the streets


Neither detailed or analytical.Just a parotting of the SWP line


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 4, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Neither detailed or analytical.Just a parotting of the SWP line


Well let me see, it names several of the organisers and speakers, looks briefly at their histories and quotes them, makes comparison between the FLA and the EDL and offers suggestions for countering them.

Then again, opposing them isn't what you're about so "parroting the SWP line" it is.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 4, 2017)

The FLA has so far trodden a different path to the EDL. That started as a localised conflict in Luton as a direct backlash against a jihadist demo, itself called against the celebratory return of the local regiment from Iraq. The first thing they did after that was in Birmingham which immediately turned into a punch up with local youth. The next was Manchester, about a month later,again a fight/stand off in Picadilly Gardens this time with a mostly UAF crowd. The demos came thick and fast then and the movement grew rapidly often marching in Asian or Muslim areas. FLA isn't planning anything (so far) till October.  Their march route was through a pretty non controversial part of central London.


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 4, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> The FLA has so far trodden a different path to the EDL. That started as a localised conflict in Luton as a direct backlash against a jihadist demo, itself called against the celebratory return of the local regiment from Iraq. The first thing they did after that was in Birmingham which immediately turned into a punch up with local youth. The next was Manchester, about a month later,again a fight/stand off in Picadilly Gardens this time with a mostly UAF crowd. The demos came thick and fast then and the movement grew rapidly often marching in Asian or Muslim areas. FLA isn't planning anything (so far) till October.  Their march route was through a pretty non controversial part of central London.


I agree, at the moment they don't look like EDL MkII. That doesn't mean they're a positive development. We need to draw comparisons in order to decide how to combat what they represent. We have to know how they differ as well as what they have in common.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2017)

19force8 said:


> I agree, at the moment they don't look like EDL MkII. That doesn't mean they're a positive development. We need to draw comparisons in order to decide how to combat what they represent. We have to know how they differ as well as what they have in common.


if i was planning an edl mk ii then i wouldn't start it off with big rucks but build up to them. one problem the edl had was that whenever they tried to make out they weren't racist etc someone would come out of the woodwork with something very racist. and apart from yaxley-lennon, late of the bnp, you spotted people out of the '80s nf, people who attended blood & honour gigs etc on the marches. rather than start off with a scrap which would cause people i wanted to recruit to have an early opportunity to decide against involvement, i would build things up gently so that any scrap came at a time i chose and from a position of strength. this isn't to say the fla is the edl mk ii. but it would be foolish to think that any street organisation would appear like the edl, that they wouldn't have learnt from the mistakes of that nefandous organisation.


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 4, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> if i was planning an edl mk ii then i wouldn't start it off with big rucks but build up to them. one problem the edl had was that whenever they tried to make out they weren't racist etc someone would come out of the woodwork with something very racist. and apart from yaxley-lennon, late of the bnp, you spotted people out of the '80s nf, people who attended blood & honour gigs etc on the marches. rather than start off with a scrap which would cause people i wanted to recruit to have an early opportunity to decide against involvement, i would build things up gently so that any scrap came at a time i chose and from a position of strength. this isn't to say the fla is the edl mk ii. but it would be foolish to think that any street organisation would appear like the edl, that they wouldn't have learnt from the mistakes of that nefandous organisation.


Yeah, but then you're a cunning, nefandous geezer who can think his way out of a paper bag.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Yeah, but then you're a cunning, nefandous geezer who can think his way out of a paper bag.


let's not go down the route of saying hoolies are thick as pigshit or similar. there's often a feeling that they're lacking upstairs: but i think we ought to face up to the fact that there are some able people on the right. there are, yes, a lot of people who aren't so smart. people who draw swastikas on buses in their own blood aren't really doing themselves any favours. but the opposition not universally like that.


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## 19force8 (Jul 4, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> let's not go down the route of saying hoolies are thick as pigshit or similar.


Not all of them just enough so that if you get a couple of thousand together and in drink the cunning plan is likely to go out the window sooner rather than later.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Not all of them just enough so that if you get a couple of thousand together and in drink the cunning plan is likely to go out the window sooner rather than later.


let's wait and see, eh, i wouldn't be so confident: although i would like to be proved wrong.


----------



## Nice one (Jul 4, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> The FLA has so far trodden a different path to the EDL. That started as a localised conflict in Luton as a direct backlash against a jihadist demo, itself called against the celebratory return of the local regiment from Iraq. The first thing they did after that was in Birmingham which immediately turned into a punch up with local youth. The next was Manchester, about a month later,again a fight/stand off in Picadilly Gardens this time with a mostly UAF crowd. The demos came thick and fast then and the movement grew rapidly often marching in Asian or Muslim areas. FLA isn't planning anything (so far) till October.  Their march route was through a pretty non controversial part of central London.



there were two demos in birmingham before manchester. the first they unloaded their placards from the back of their cars without much interuption, there were a few black faces and placards that read 'black and white unite'. Down the other end the swp had their rally on the main shopping thoroughfare shouting to the local mostly asian and black youth that the NAZIBNP were in town. They even brought their anti-BNP placards. The local asian lads stormed up the precinct and after an uneasy stand-off, edl genuinely bewildered then they got ran all over town. (I think this is where martin smith earned his nickname the running man).

The second Birmingham demo the edl were much more prepared and up for a fight and a lot of the local youth stayed in the background which meant the anti-fascists were very exposed. A lot of cat and mouse, due mainly to heavy police presense, ending in full-on if fleeting confrontations.

The manchester demo was the clincher. Despite the fact there was a large anti-fascist presence - pretty much made up exclusively of lefty/trade union/anarchist types, despite the fact the edl were almost instantly kettled and took battering from police in piccadilly gardens - subduing tactics, they were allowed to march through the backstreets unhindered happily chanting up to the top of shudehill/corporation street where their buses were waiting for them.

I think that was the moment they saw themselves as serious business.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 4, 2017)

Nice one said:


> there were two demos in birmingham before manchester. the first they unloaded their placards from the back of their cars without much interuption, there were a few black faces and placards that read 'black and white unite'. Down the other end the swp had their rally on the main shopping thoroughfare shouting to the local mostly asian and black youth that the NAZIBNP were in town. They even brought their anti-BNP placards. The local asian lads stormed up the precinct and after an uneasy stand-off, edl genuinely bewildered then they got ran all over town. (I think this is where martin smith earned his nickname the running man).
> 
> The second Birmingham demo the edl were much more prepared and up for a fight and a lot of the local youth stayed away which meant the anti-fascists were very exposed. A lot of cat and mouse, due mainly to heavy police presense, ending in full-on if fleeting confrontations.
> 
> ...



I don't remember the EDL being kettled immediately in Picadilly Gardens, there were plenty roaming around the outskirts, but yes I think you might be right in thinking that that's when they coalesced as a mob.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 4, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Not all of them just enough so that if you get a couple of thousand together and in drink the cunning plan is likely to go out the window sooner rather than later.



Britain First are taking things down the peaceful and disciplined route, hoping to build up numbers.


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## Anudder Oik (Jul 4, 2017)

Searchlight has also joined the chorus of panic with this analysis (linked below) of how the far right is relaunching itself through FLA, despite the fact they were uninvited. What it fails to do, like the SWP and the other article linked above, is understand that ordinary people are much more concerned about islamic terrorism than one off attacks by far righters, so not really pushing the murder of a labour MP a year after the event and with three successive islamic attacks in a row with many victims is not tantamount to , well, nazism.

The football lads thing has quite obviously been motivated by the heroic defence put up by the Millwall fan who took on the three jihadists in Borough market, a selfless act which saved lives and should be recognized, as should that of the spanish banker who died trying to stop that same attack.

I think Searchlight and SWP are panic mongering and out of touch with the football crowd. Maybe they just don't have anything else to write about these days? The standuptoracism article, which repeats the mantra that "protests against extremism are an attack on all muslims, describes the EDL as a nazi organization, when techincally...

People need to stop equating real concerns with an agenda. By that I mean FLA and people in general not EDL.

A second warning for antifascists: thousands on the streets of London as far right reorganises


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## Red Sky (Jul 4, 2017)

[QUOTE="Anudder Oik, post: 15137951, member:

A second warning for antifascists: thousands on the streets of London as far right reorganises[/QUOTE]

This is pretty hysterical and if you accept the premise that this a far right street movement pretty demoralising  (These lads are good at fighting and organise under the radar). 

It exposes itself by describing the "Pie & Mash squad" as a hard core Nazi firm. In reality they're about a dozen berks, mostly from Portsmouth who've been turned over again and again.


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## mather (Jul 4, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I think Searchlight and SWP are panic mongering and out of touch with the football crowd.



First off Searchlight have links with the state and the spooks and have grassed up people on the left as well, so fuck em they are not to be trusted.

As for the SWP, they are not only out of touch with football fans but working class people in general, it is a fucking joke that they even have 'Workers' in their party name. They are a party led by middle class academic types who use their membership base of mostly uni students to do all their legwork while they cynically insert themselves into other people's struggles so they can either dominate those struggles (usually fucking it up in the process) or simply sponge off them so they can gain a few more naive new recruits.


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## mather (Jul 4, 2017)

And that is before you even get onto the fact they had a rape scandal they tried to cover up and protecting the accused rapist and their whole see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil approach to Islamists, something they have been doing since they backed the Islamist terrorists in Afghanistan during the 80's against the Soviets.


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## 19force8 (Jul 5, 2017)

mather said:


> First off Searchlight have links with the state and the spooks and have grassed up people on the left as well, so fuck em they are not to be trusted.
> 
> As for the SWP, they are not only out of touch with football fans but working class people in general, it is a fucking joke that they even have 'Workers' in their party name. They are a party led by middle class academic types who use their membership base of mostly uni students to do all their legwork while they cynically insert themselves into other people's struggles so they can either dominate those struggles (usually fucking it up in the process) or simply sponge off them so they can gain a few more naive new recruits.


You are full of shit. 

It should be obvious to anyone familiar with the SWP who reads the Searchlight article that you know fuck all about them. You just trot out a bunch of stale, sectarian insults as if they were credentials for your own imagined superiority.

"The SWP are out of touch with football fans" - and you know this how? Because it doesn't fit your stereotype of "uni students?" Give me a break! Besides they weren't "fans" they were "firms." Surely you know the difference.

"The SWP are out of touch with working class people" - because they're all students and can't relate to football I suppose.

"The SWP are lead by middle class intellectuals" - obviously because that's what students become, and working class people have no use for theory, or even Marxism come to that.

"The SWP are mostly uni students" - where have you been for the last four years? If anything, I'd say the SP has overtaken them in the student stakes [which IME is saying something]. At a guess and from limited local and demo/Marxism experience I'd put their average age somewhere in the 40's. 

As for the "dominating and fucking up" campaigns trope, that's just weak. If it were true they wouldn't routinely get campaigners from such as Hillsborough, Orgreave, Bradford 12, Rotherham 12, and many others to speak at events like Marxism. This happens because over many years they've provided consistent support and assistance, not because they fuck things up. But if what you say is true surely we'd see far more successful "people's struggles" in the vast areas where they have no presence. So do we?

And recruiting as a crime? Oh deary me how these political parties keep trying to grow by getting more members. Do grow up.


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## ddraig (Jul 5, 2017)

oh dear! the cult is strong in this one!


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## ddraig (Jul 5, 2017)

fuck the swp, then and now
they were the same when i was in uni in the 90's, co opting and sucking life out of causes and movements, and "building", still the same shit


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## 19force8 (Jul 5, 2017)

ddraig said:


> oh dear! the cult is strong in this one!


No, I'm a member of the Labour Party.

I get fed up with lazy people talking out of their arses about the SWP just because it's easy to run out the usual streotypes without questioning them.


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## 19force8 (Jul 5, 2017)

ddraig said:


> fuck the swp, then and now
> they were the same when i was in uni in the 90's, co opting and sucking life out of causes and movements, and "building", still the same shit



I've offered an answer to that - do we see many more successful campaigns where they aren't?


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## ddraig (Jul 5, 2017)

what answer and who is "they"?


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## 19force8 (Jul 5, 2017)

ddraig said:


> what answer and who is "they"?


See the penultimate paragraph of post #18206

I'll go slowly for you.

What proportion of universities do you think had an SWP presence in the nineties? 10%? 20%? Certainly less than 30%, yes?

If your claim that SWP were "sucking the life out of causes and movements" was true then most of the other 70% plus universities would have had vibrant radical groups turning out well balanced activists by the score. So where are they?


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## cantsin (Jul 5, 2017)

ddraig said:


> fuck the swp, then and now
> they were the same when i was in uni in the 90's, co opting and sucking life out of causes and movements, and "building", still the same shit




easily said, but it certainly wasn't the Labour lot at our Uni in the late 80's / 90's breathing life into any 'causes' or 'movement's', more like chasing their own tails up bureaucratic cul de sacs - SWP / SWSS on other hand were v proactive, and willing to get stuck in ( eg : anti Alton Abortion Bill, anti fees, incl. decent little attempt to storm Parliament 87/ 88 ish ?)


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## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> easily said, but it certainly wasn't the Labour lot at our Uni in the late 80's / 90's breathing life into any 'causes' or 'movement's', more like chasing their own tails up bureaucratic cul de sacs - SWP / SWSS on other hand were v proactive, and willing to get stuck in ( eg : anti Alton Abortion Bill, anti fees, incl. decent little attempt to storm Parliament 87/ 88 ish ?)


Fees never mentioned in 87/88


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## cantsin (Jul 5, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Fees never mentioned in 87/88



loans, + with video evidence (surprisingly)


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## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2017)

cantsin said:


> loans, + with video evidence



Loans, yes. The battle of Westminster Bridge


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## cantsin (Jul 5, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Loans, yes. The battle of Westminster Bridge



felt pretty full on the time that, OB infantry line suddenly parted, and the cavalry came charging, with us having v little room for manouvre / not much time to react - those that stayed / regrouped were fired up and proactive afterwards though, as far as it goes.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jul 5, 2017)

That loans one was the first big demo I'd been on. Lots of disappointments after that...



19force8 said:


> "The SWP are mostly uni students" - where have you been for the last four years? If anything, I'd say the SP has overtaken them in the student stakes [which IME is saying something]. At a guess and from limited local and demo/Marxism experience I'd put their average age somewhere in the 40's.



It seems like the SWP had lots of younger members until a few years ago? Was there some kind of incident which made them all leave?


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## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> That loans one was the first big demo I'd been on. Lots of disappointments after that...
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like the SWP had lots of younger members until a few years ago? Was there some kind of incident which made them all leave?


Marxism starts tomorrow. Back in the 90s it was massive. Now it's smaller than the London lib dem Friday drinks


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## Tom A (Jul 6, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Marxism starts tomorrow. Back in the 90s it was massive. Now it's smaller than the London lib dem Friday drinks


Their bite has become incredibly feeble, but their bark is as loud as ever.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2017)

Tom A said:


> Their bite has become incredibly feeble, but their bark is as loud as ever.


Their bite has always been feeble


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## Tom A (Jul 6, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Their bite has always been feeble


Yeah but you can barely feel any pressure there at all now.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2017)

Tom A said:


> Yeah but you can barely feel any pressure there at all now.


I never felt any pressure from the SWP anyway


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## Nigel (Jul 8, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Searchlight has also joined the chorus of panic with this analysis (linked below) of how the far right is relaunching itself through FLA, despite the fact they were uninvited. What it fails to do, like the SWP and the other article linked above, is understand that ordinary people are much more concerned about islamic terrorism than one off attacks by far righters, so not really pushing the murder of a labour MP a year after the event and with three successive islamic attacks in a row with many victims is not tantamount to , well, nazism.
> 
> The football lads thing has quite obviously been motivated by the heroic defence put up by the Millwall fan who took on the three jihadists in Borough market, a selfless act which saved lives and should be recognized, as should that of the spanish banker who died trying to stop that same attack.
> 
> ...


Interesting that this article is written by Comrade Delta & co; D ream Deferre d & has similar position as SWP/SUTR/ UAF !
It's been rumoured that he is close to top figures in S WP such as Judith Orr.
Had the impression that in some way they had learned the lessons of ANAL II under Julie Waterson with regards receiving 'intelligence' from Searchlies with UAF, especially after disagreements between Searchlight & Hope Not Hate a while later, distancing themselves somewhat from them.

Out of desperation and loss of credibility in dealing with anti racism/fascism that is generally even reluctantly accepted among their new supporters; mainly through SUTR's newly gained backing by Momentum and others on Labour  Left/Centre Left; some sort of arching agreement between SWP & Searchlight is being sort ?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jul 9, 2017)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It seems like the SWP had lots of younger members until a few years ago? Was there some kind of incident which made them all leave?



Besides that there was a brief spell where the greens looked like a good place to call home before being abandoned by hysteria for Oh Jeremy Corbyn.


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## cantsin (Jul 9, 2017)

19force8 said:


> I've offered an answer to that - do we see many more successful campaigns where they aren't?



some truth in what you say, but the SWP placards on the Grenfell march was a f*cking joke, they just make mugs of themselves in those situations, no base amongst the residents, it just looks like naked, middle class lefty opportunism


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## Tom A (Jul 9, 2017)

The ability of the SWP to dominate campaigns and movements has been greatly diminished, and where they do predominate it is due to ordinary people not bothering (I feel much happier when the home-made placards and banners outnumber the Socialist Worker ones, and indeed all other mass-produced placards). These days they are just an irritating eyesore and embarrassment to themselves to which the rest of us either pay no heed or are openly hostile to because of Comrade Delta. I do wish that people wouldn't just naively pick up their placards though - though Saturday before last I did see people who had deliberately torn off the "Socialist Worker" from the top.


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## newbie (Jul 9, 2017)

Tom A said:


> though Saturday before last I did see people who had deliberately torn off the "Socialist Worker" from the top.


that's good.  I looked and didn't see, and came away thinking that another Great British Tradition had declined.


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## Nigel (Jul 9, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Marxism starts tomorrow. Back in the 90s it was massive. Now it's smaller than the London lib dem Friday drinks


Unfortunately this doesn't appear to be true !
Still look they can pull over a thousand people (a lot who should know better) !


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## 19force8 (Jul 11, 2017)

cantsin said:


> SWP placards on the Grenfell march was a f*cking joke, they just make mugs of themselves in those situations, no base amongst the residents, it just looks like naked, middle class lefty opportunism


Did any political organisation, other than possibly Labour, have a base amongst the residents? Maybe their response for the march was over the top, but there's good reason for lefties to get involved.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jul 11, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Did any political organisation, other than possibly Labour, have a base amongst the residents? Maybe their response for the march was over the top, but there's good reason for lefties to get involved.



The Grenfell Tower Action Group are part of a wider housing org.


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## 19force8 (Jul 11, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Interesting that this article is written by Comrade Delta & co; D ream Deferre d & has similar position as SWP/SUTR/ UAF !
> It's been rumoured that he is close to top figures in S WP such as Judith Orr.
> Had the impression that in some way they had learned the lessons of ANAL II under Julie Waterson with regards receiving 'intelligence' from Searchlies with UAF, especially after disagreements between Searchlight & Hope Not Hate a while later, distancing themselves somewhat from them.
> 
> Out of desperation and loss of credibility in dealing with anti racism/fascism that is generally even reluctantly accepted among their new supporters; mainly through SUTR's newly gained backing by Momentum and others on Labour  Left/Centre Left; some sort of arching agreement between SWP & Searchlight is being sort ?


The author (well one of) is definitely the most interesting part of the article. It lead me to look at the DD site. It's not bad. If I didn't know of and have an opinion about one of the lead contributors, I'd probably bookmark it (or whatever young people do nowadays).

You're reaching a bit on a putative Searchlight/SWP connection. Publishing articles by Martin Smith is an unusual way to cosy up to the SWP - they'd much rather never hear his name again. I don't doubt there's still a few of his friends at all levels of the organisation, but even four years on all the members I've mentioned it to are firmly against any attempt at rapprochement.

BTW, "desperation and loss of credibility in dealing with anti racism/fascism" isn't something I'm seeing. Care to elaborate?


----------



## Nigel (Jul 11, 2017)

19force8 said:


> The author (well one of) is definitely the most interesting part of the article. It lead me to look at the DD site. It's not bad. If I didn't know of and have an opinion about one of the lead contributors, I'd probably bookmark it (or whatever young people do nowadays).
> 
> You're reaching a bit on a putative Searchlight/SWP connection. Publishing articles by Martin Smith is an unusual way to cosy up to the SWP - they'd much rather never hear his name again. I don't doubt there's still a few of his friends at all levels of the organisation, but even four years on all the members I've mentioned it to are firmly against any attempt at rapprochement.
> 
> BTW, "desperation and loss of credibility in dealing with anti racism/fascism" isn't something I'm seeing. Care to elaborate?


" Publishing articles by Martin Smith is an unusual way to cosy up to the SWP - they'd much rather never hear his name again. I don't doubt there's still a few of his friends at all levels of the organisation, but even four years on all the members I've mentioned it to are firmly against any attempt at rapprochement."
This is not altogether true is it !
This is probably not the right thread to discuss this issue; Maybe SWP EXPULSIONS may be better !
SWP expulsions and squabbles


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## 19force8 (Jul 11, 2017)

Nigel said:


> This is not altogether true is it !


Again with the gnomic assertions. Are you asking or telling? If the former, already answered, if the latter, please explain.

You still haven't answered my last question about the "air of desperation." Any chance?

My comments were mostly relevant to this thread (i.e. relations between antifascist groups). If you want a sectarian chat about the SWP Expulsions I'm not that interested.


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## Nigel (Jul 12, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Again with the gnomic assertions. Are you asking or telling? If the former, already answered, if the latter, please explain.
> 
> You still haven't answered my last question about the "air of desperation." Any chance?
> 
> My comments were mostly relevant to this thread (i.e. relations between antifascist groups). If you want a sectarian chat about the SWP Expulsions I'm not that interested.


There's plenty of evidence of UAF/SUTR and SWP in general being less than successful and pissing off genuine campaigners; suggest you talk to activists within Kent Anti Racism Network and how they operated around migrants/refugees campaigns. 
Dover & Liverpool stick out but around the country there is a similar picture.
What does Dover Mean for Antifascists?
Kent Anti-Racism Network
Merseyside Anti-Fascist Network

I don't want to derail this thread with even more, 'Why The SWP Are Shit.' Which is a general consensus among many if not majority of activists on Left and most of all among their ex comrades ! 
Incidentally I know several ex hacks and sycophants from SWP who had stuck with the party going back as far as IS; 1976/77 who have now left; not just because of Comrade Delta scenario but also the whole way they have degenerated into this sick nasty little cult.


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## 19force8 (Jul 12, 2017)

It wasn’t me that made (still) unfounded claims about SWP and Searchlight getting together, nor did I post a 1hr20min video of the Marxism rally. Derailing FFS!


The AFN report of Dover is interesting for what it doesn’t say. You’d think 150 “locals and AFN” were the only anti-fascists in Dover that day. Not the story my kids tell, which includes an anti-fascist photographer being hunted down, kicked and beaten with a scaffolding pole. Similarly, at Liverpool when AFN gets kettled and breaks out it’s heroic, but when UAF does, it’s pathetic. Everyone does biased reporting.


But in the interests of not derailing the thread too much I’ll be brief rather than answer point by point.


The SWP aren’t what you’d call big, but they do a lot of campaigning (not “_genuine_” campaigning, of course) which puts them in touch with a lot of people. Inevitably they piss some off. So what? I’m sure the SP would get a similar reaction if they could focus on anything other than the next election. Anarchists are different though, they never fuck up. No no, that’s not quite right, they never have to take responsibility.


As for the Martin Smith scandal (BTW please stop being pretentious and use his name – Comrade Delta was the  invention of Socialist Unity), the SWP  got it spectacularly wrong at every stage (bar, possibly, the last). I don’t know enough about the SP to say for certain, but I’d be surprised if they hadn’t fucked up the odd internal disciplinary. I do, however, know anarchists well enough to say they routinely cover up cases of sexual assault and rape, but no big fuss because there’s never anyone to take responsibility for their mess.


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## cantsin (Jul 12, 2017)

19force8 said:


> Did any political organisation, other than possibly Labour, have a base amongst the residents? Maybe their response for the march was over the top, but there's good reason for lefties to get involved.



 "political organisations" were nothing to do with the Grenfell response, it was anger + self organisation, they didnt / don't need placards or politicos


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## The Flying Pig (Jul 12, 2017)

19force8 said:


> It wasn’t me that made (still) unfounded claims about SWP and Searchlight getting together, nor did I post a 1hr20min video of the Marxism rally. Derailing FFS!
> 
> 
> The AFN report of Dover is interesting for what it doesn’t say. You’d think 150 “locals and AFN” were the only anti-fascists in Dover that day. Not the story my kids tell, which includes an anti-fascist photographer being hunted down, kicked and beaten with a scaffolding pole. Similarly, at Liverpool when AFN gets kettled and breaks out it’s heroic, but when UAF does, it’s pathetic. Everyone does biased reporting.
> ...


Do i get the gist that you are not particularly keen on anarchists?


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 12, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> Do i get the gist that you are not particularly keen on anarchists?


Some of my best friends are anarchist. 

Actually, that's a lie, one good friend still considers himself an anarchist, but he hasn't done politics since getting a good job and a house ten years ago so maybe he doesn't count.

I've met a few over the years through union work and campaigns and they been decent in about the same proportion as others on the left - ie mostly.

On the other hand, nowadays there seems to be a tendency that sees smashing the SWP (first, then the SP, etc) as their main goal. One of my kids at university was screamed at, threatened and ostracised simply for challenging calling the SWP a rape cult.

So I treat them pretty much as I find them - I ignore the cunts where I can, tolerating them if I have to, and treat the rest like human beings. Just like any other political group really.


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## Nigel (Jul 12, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> Do i get the gist that you are not particularly keen on anarchists?


AFN now are all Anarchists ?
Where I am the majority are in Labour Party now, another in Green Party and two autonomists !

19force8: " I’m sure the SP would get a similar reaction if they could focus on anything other than the next election. Anarchists are different though, they never fuck up. No no, that’s not quite right, they never have to take responsibility."
Socialist Party/YRE and similar groups & individuals in and around them have acted completely differently in the context of anti fascism/racism and commendably in at least two confrontations; Aylesbury & Coventry, at Slough SP members chose to stay with those blocking E D L rather than being sidelined by UAF who wished to stand on sidelines & two comrades from SP were arrested after activity in Welling 2009 with other militant anti fascists !
Don't try to dirty the waters in some hope of trying to make out that this is some kind of sectarian dig.


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## Red Sky (Jul 12, 2017)

19force8 said:


> The AFN report of Dover is interesting for what it doesn’t say. You’d think 150 “locals and AFN” were the only anti-fascists in Dover that day. Not the story my kids tell, which includes an anti-fascist photographer being hunted down, kicked and beaten with a scaffolding pole. Similarly, at Liverpool when AFN gets kettled and breaks out it’s heroic, but when UAF does, it’s pathetic. Everyone does biased reporting.



The report linked to above is about another rally in Dover - in September 2016. The photographer got beaten (not with a scaffold tube) in January 2016.  The figures of about 150 anti-fascists from out of town and locals are about right.


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## The39thStep (Jul 12, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Unfortunately this doesn't appear to be true !
> Still look they can pull over a thousand people (a lot who should know better) !



Quite a few gaps at the back in the higher seats to be fair. Wonder what the SWP made of the call to get involved in the coomunity,residents associations and Council meetings?


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## 19force8 (Jul 12, 2017)

Nigel said:


> AFN now are all Anarchists ?
> Where I am the majority are in Labour Party now, another in Green Party and two autonomists !
> 
> Socialist Party/YRE and similar groups & individuals in and around them have acted completely differently in the context of anti fascism/racism and commendably in at least two confrontations; Aylesbury & Coventry, at Slough SP members chose to stay with those blocking E D L rather than being sidelined by UAF who wished to stand on sidelines & two comrades from SP were arrested after activity in Welling 2009 with other militant anti fascists !
> Don't try to dirty the waters in some hope of trying to make out that this is some kind of sectarian dig.


This is getting tedious - you wobble all over the place, making unsustainable statements, refusing to answer when called on them, and shifting your ground.

Did anyone say AFN were all anarchists? The point was that the reports you linked to were partial and biased.[Edit - well one was, see below]

I apologise for the sectarian dig at the SP, I didn't realise they were so committed to "militant" anti-fascism nowadays. I must admit I've kind of lost touch with them since I moved a few years back. True there's a member in my town though I don't see him much and being a similar age/build to me he's unlikely to be up for much militancy anyway. So they had two members arrested in 2009, I didn't know that. Kudos.


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 12, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> The report linked to above is about another rally in Dover - in September 2016. The photographer got beaten (not with a scaffold tube) in January 2016.  The figures of about 150 anti-fascists from out of town and locals are about right.


Fair point, my mistake on both counts.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 18, 2017)

Crown Prosecution Service to review case after alleged assault on woman in Sunderland house - Chronicle Live

EDL driven Justice for Chelsey issue mentioned earlier on is being reviewed.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 19, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Crown Prosecution Service to review case after alleged assault on woman in Sunderland house - Chronicle Live
> 
> EDL driven Justice for Chelsey issue mentioned earlier on is being reviewed.


Any background or more details for this ?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 19, 2017)

I think i posted earlier in the thread if you can find it- it was mashalled by the EDL IIRC- marches and shit in Sunderland. I think the blokes accused had to be moved to another location when it started to get nasty. hardly reported in the press. google justice for chelsey - but will bring up mostly EDL links


----------



## teqniq (Jul 26, 2017)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 29, 2017)

EDL leader jailed for being illegal immigrant after entering US on friend's passport


----------



## ddraig (Jul 29, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> EDL leader jailed for being illegal immigrant after entering US on friend's passport


2013


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 29, 2017)

ddraig said:


> 2013




I saw this and didn't read the date under the article..


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 1, 2017)

More shenanigans in Sunderland when some Celtic fans turned up to Tommy Robinsons book signing

Book signing by far-right activist Tommy Robinson descends into violence (VIDEO)

Just looking at some footage on YouTube and it seems one Celtic lad got badly hurt with a bat . On the ground a long time . Not linking to any of it .


----------



## Nigel (Aug 1, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> More shenanigans in Sunderland when some Celtic fans turned up to Tommy Robinsons book signing
> 
> Book signing by far-right activist Tommy Robinson descends into violence (VIDEO)
> 
> Just looking at some footage on YouTube and it seems one Celtic lad got badly hurt with a bat . On the ground a long time . Not linking to any of it .


Probably not the best organised activity !


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 1, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Probably not the best organised activity !



The North East has (with a couple of exceptions) generally been a bit of a black hole for anti fascism recently.


----------



## Casually Red (Aug 1, 2017)

Nigel said:


> Probably not the best organised activity !



Just looking at the footage and they hung around too long . Game as fuck but badly outnumbered . In and out ....and no colours....would have been much better but, cest la vie .

Cest la guerre.

At least his mates stuck by the lad .


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 2, 2017)

Casually Red said:


> Just looking at the footage and they hung around too long . Game as fuck but badly outnumbered . In and out ....and no colours....would have been much better but, cest la vie .
> 
> Cest la guerre.
> 
> At least his mates stuck by the lad .



Fair play for having a go I suppose but it looks like an amble up to the shop, then someone throws a smoke flare and everyone runs off.

Somebody's unlucky enough to get stuck at the back.


----------



## Kev Scott LTJ (Aug 3, 2017)

teqniq said:


> View attachment 112092



Wonder if those pallets of books will end up gathering dust in the same warehouse as Michael Gove's bibles?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 3, 2017)




----------



## Red Sky (Aug 3, 2017)

Kev Scott LTJ said:


> Wonder if those pallets of books will end up gathering dust in the same warehouse as Michael Gove's bibles?



His last one ended up on the Amazon best sellers list.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 3, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> His last one ended up on the Amazon best sellers list.



As did this one.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 3, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> The North East has (with a couple of exceptions) generally been a bit of a black hole for anti fascism recently.


And this incident won't help that either, locals came out to defend the shop.this wasn't organised anti fascism just some kids wound up by him on YouTube and Twitter.Added to that is some stuff about some Celtic supporters singing about Lee Rigby .


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I think its about confronting the Islamacist mileu as well as the would be jihaddists.Heres a few ideas to start the discusion with, other posters will probably have better ideas.
> 
> I think the starting point would be to acknowledge the fact that more working class people are worried about Islamic terrorism than they are about nazis issue and a notice of intent that anti fascism is about confronting all forms of fascism.
> 
> ...


 and here is something that I also support
Peter Tatchell: Title


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 4, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> and here is something that I also support
> Peter Tatchell: Title



He was there both times the EDL came to Tower Hamlets as well with his "Gays and Muslims Unite - Stop the EDL" banner. Fair play.


----------



## Rosemary Jest (Sep 2, 2017)

EDL having some kind of march in Keighley today, the cunts just delayed my train to leeds.

There's a massive police presence for the cunts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2017)

teqniq said:


> View attachment 112092


he'll just chuck a mattress on top of those for years to come.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 2, 2017)

Rosemary Jest said:


> EDL having some kind of march in Keighley today, the cunts just delayed my train to leeds.
> 
> There's a massive police presence for the cunts.



Pisspoor EDL turnout, no actual march according to the reports I've seen.


----------



## 19force8 (Sep 2, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Pisspoor EDL turnout, no actual march according to the reports I've seen.


Yep, the usual collection of drug dealers, sex offenders, wannabe thugs and losers. Hardly worth the petrol, I only bothered because I have family in the area.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 2, 2017)




----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

so? 
they (uaf) just stand there chanting with banners and preaching to the converted, go where plod tell them then pat themselves on back and fuck off home early
ime they don't walk the walk, they just talk a good game and take over demos, swappie style


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

there's even a fucking paper at end of that vid, ych a fi


----------



## teqniq (Sep 2, 2017)

That was not an endorsement of them, I don't actually even know who they are. Someone I follow retweeted those so I thought I'd post them here as some kind of indication of the size of the counter protest.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

yeah, it was a response to them really
the uaf piss me off, they took over something in Cardiff recently and did the usual, speeches "down with this sort of thing", back slapping then off


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> yeah, it was a response to them really
> the uaf piss me off, they took over something in Cardiff recently and did the usual, speeches "down with this sort of thing", back slapping then off


the bit when they leave is often the best bit of the day


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> the bit when they leave is often the best bit of the day


yes, just a shame about the numbers who could be useful if they tried and wanted to be


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> yes, just a shame about the numbers who could be useful if they tried and wanted to be


yeh but if they wanted to be they wouldn't stop in the uaf more than one demo. they'd join a more useful group or do it themselves


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> so?
> they (uaf) just stand there chanting with banners and preaching to the converted, go where plod tell them then pat themselves on back and fuck off home early
> ime they don't walk the walk, they just talk a good game and take over demos, swappie style



That's what happens when  no one else organises anything.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2017)

They're also a useful distraction. As are the the masked up types.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> That's what happens when  no one else organises anything.


yes usually
in this case there was already something organised and they organised something under their name at the same time same place


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They're also a useful distraction. As are the the masked up types.



Useful distraction for what? Some squaddist fantasizing?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> yes usually
> in this case there was already something organised and they organised something under their name at the same time same place



How did you lose the initiative ?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Useful distraction for what? Some squaddist fantasizing?



Interesting response. Masking up doesn't attract the attention of the state then? So for those not wanting to attract that attention it's a useful distraction.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> How did you lose the initiative ?


 eh?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 2, 2017)

ddraig said:


> so?
> they (uaf) just stand there chanting with banners and preaching to the converted, go where plod tell them then pat themselves on back and fuck off home early
> ime they don't walk the walk, they just talk a good game and take over demos, swappie style


Yeh! We need those middle aged women and old men to get the gimp outfits on and run around lighting fireworks and pretending they are really really hard. That should do it.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> Yeh! We need those middle aged women and old men to get the gimp outfits on and run around lighting fireworks and pretending they are really really hard. That should do it.



And what would you know? How's the "org" going?


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> Yeh! We need those middle aged women and old men to get the gimp outfits on and run around lighting fireworks and pretending they are really really hard. That should do it.


like MM?? nah
if all the people that turned out actually stood in the way instead of out of the way there's be no need for that


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2017)

If you're not AFN what would you know?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Interesting response. Masking up doesn't attract the attention of the state then? So for those not wanting to attract that attention it's a useful distraction.



So the UAF are a distraction  , the masks are a distraction.  For what might I ask?

I've read in a few places that we're supposed to ditch the black block gear and go all casual. You try it and I'll do the prisoner support.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If you're not AFN what would you know?



That makes no sense.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> And what would you know? How's the "org" going?


Normal people prepared to show their faces, rather than the gimpy gang running around with all the gear and no idea. Those old uns have the balls to show their faces, but then again when it is just a passing phase and in a couple of years you will be working in the city with all the bells & whistles you would not want your past to get in the way.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> Normal people prepared to show their faces, rather than the gimpy gang running around with all the gear and no idea. Those old uns have the balls to show their faces, but then again when it is just a passing phase and in a couple of years you will be working in the city with all the bells & whistles you would not want your past to get in the way.



Where are these "old 'uns" then?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> So the UAF are a distraction  , the masks are a distraction.  For what might I ask?
> 
> I've read in a few places that we're supposed to ditch the black block gear and go all casual. You try it and I'll do the prisoner support.



The only thing that has changed is CCTV everywhere. Masking up isn't the only way to counter that.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The only thing that has changed is CCTV everywhere. Masking up isn't the only way to counter that.



CCTV , body cameras on cops, ubiquitous mobile phone footage, Russia Today, livestreamers etc etc.
But anyway feel free to show every one how it's done . Anytime you like.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> CCTV , body cameras on cops, ubiquitous mobile phone footage, Russia Today, livestreamers etc etc.
> But anyway feel free to show every one how it's done . Anytime you like.



I note you're focusing on demonstrations. I'd argue abandoning that strategy.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I note you're focusing on demonstrations. I'd argue abandoning that strategy.



Don't argue it then. Do it.


----------



## 19force8 (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Where are these "old 'uns" then?


Oi, I was there, though with only half my usual complement of bodyguards


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Don't argue it then. Do it.



Erm, ok...


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Erm, ok...



Good luck...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Good luck...



And you...


----------



## Rosemary Jest (Sep 3, 2017)

Glad this didnt turn out to be a big march or owt, didnt even know about it until me and the other half got to saltaire train station and saw the police presence.

She feared it was a terrorist incident, which it was really.

The edl fuckers should be charged for wasting police time, bunch of skinhead racists.

I sat next to a black fella on the train who told me he'd been told by the codunctor to move down the train as he might not like what the edl heed the balls were chanting.

In the fucking 21st century man, the mind fuckin boggles.


----------



## RD2003 (Sep 3, 2017)

Rosemary Jest said:


> Glad this didnt turn out to be a big march or owt, didnt even know about it until me and the other half got to saltaire train station and saw the police presence.
> 
> She feared it was a terrorist incident, which it was really.
> 
> ...


As Barbara Royle said: "Jim, it's the milennium!"


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 8, 2017)

theres an EDL gathering in Newcastle this W/E I believe


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 8, 2017)

hope folk in the NE  already know aboot it!


----------



## Calamity1971 (Sep 9, 2017)

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/local-news/north-east-news-live-latest-13592135
I knew nothing about it until later today. Sounds like they got a welcome like in Liverpool.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 9, 2017)

from those pics it looks like a few Leeds numpties at the front giving it the big one, if the old NME weren't having heart attacks these days I'm pretty sure they would of knocked a few shades out of the cunts.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 10, 2017)

not many in Bristol today either
Live updates from Gays Against Sharia demo and counter-protest in Bristol


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 11, 2017)

SDL in Perth chased off, and outnumbered, Gays Against Shariah in Bristol outnumbered, and EDL in Newcastle a joke.


----------



## bemused (Sep 11, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> SDL in Perth chased off, and outnumbered, Gays Against Shariah in Bristol outnumbered, and EDL in Newcastle a joke.



I love the titles for their grubby clubs they are thinking up now.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 13, 2017)

Anti-fascist protester admits violent clashes with far-right activists
court case for others too


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2017)

25th Anniversary of Waterloo yesterday.
Not that you'd know if your interest in antifascism led you to the AFN who decided to celebrate the occasion by being tight lipped about this piece of antifascist history yesterday.
SWP-style sectarianism?


----------



## juice_terry (Sep 23, 2017)

[emoji23] 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## mx wcfc (Sep 24, 2017)

.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 25, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> 25th Anniversary of Waterloo yesterday.
> Not that you'd know if your interest in antifascism led you to the AFN who decided to celebrate the occasion by being tight lipped about this piece of antifascist history yesterday.
> SWP-style sectarianism?



Still banging this drum?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 25, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Still banging this drum?



It's the same post as before that you saw at the time.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 25, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Still banging this drum?


It is not a drum just a fact. I get the idea the afn like to think they started anti fascist action. We were takimg action long before the gimps arrived.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 25, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> It is not a drum just a fact. I get the idea the afn like to think they started anti fascist action. We were takimg action long before the gimps arrived.



Where do you get that idea? Are you AFA now Mr Pig?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 25, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> It is not a drum just a fact. I get the idea the afn like to think they started anti fascist action. We were takimg action long before the gimps arrived.



i dont think that's the case and i know members of AFA, Antifa and No Platform who are involved in AFN.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Sep 26, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> i dont think that's the case and i know members of AFA, Antifa and No Platform who are involved in AFN.


So do I know members of ........


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 26, 2017)

The Flying Pig said:


> So do I know members of ........



So what's your point?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> 25th Anniversary of Waterloo yesterday.
> Not that you'd know if your interest in antifascism led you to the AFN who decided to celebrate the occasion by being tight lipped about this piece of antifascist history yesterday.
> SWP-style sectarianism?


forgot that. but then i was on holiday. bloody good day out.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 26, 2017)

Liverpool anti fascists acquitted today. 


Anti-facists hug in court as they are cleared over fighting with nazis


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 26, 2017)

Master Bates released.


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 26, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Master Bates released.



I was more impressed with Colin Farrell's acquittal. Jury must have been star struck.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> I was more impressed with Colin Farrell's acquittal. Jury must have been star struck.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> I was more impressed with Colin Farrell's acquittal. Jury must have been star struck.



I was trying to do a pun but it didn't really work.


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 26, 2017)

Red Sky said:


> Liverpool anti fascists acquitted today.
> 
> 
> Anti-facists hug in court as they are cleared over fighting with nazis



fantastic! into the blog they go!
edit: oh ... Anti-fascist protester admits violent clashes with far-right activists


----------



## sim667 (Sep 27, 2017)

Anyone know anymore about this?


----------



## krink (Sep 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Anyone know anymore about this?



saw it on reddit same as you sim667 could believe the coke stuff not so sure about the rest


----------



## sim667 (Sep 27, 2017)

krink said:


> saw it on reddit same as you sim667 could believe the coke stuff not so sure about the rest


Who are you on there?


----------



## krink (Sep 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Who are you on there?



I'm not registered mate, I just browse it sometimes. spotted you though


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 28, 2017)

it has long been rumoured that he used the salon to launder money and that he fell out with KKKev over coke money. unfortunately, no one has any solid evidence either way. he definitely made lots of cash from EDL stuff which was never accounted for and the coke money could have been mixed in with that to disguise it's source. but again, no solid evidence. he is a fucken spiv, a conman and a career criminal. BNP - EDL - British Freedom - Quilliam - Pegida - and his new UHT (uniting hateful twats). what next UKIP? The Conservative Party? He has been doing deals with plod since he arrested on his way to scotland (in 2011?). when he got done for the mortgage fraud he said 'its a stitch-up' implying that he did a deal with plod but they fucked him over it and he got sent down anyway. a nasty piece of shit and an incorrigible masturbatee!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 28, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> an incorrigible masturbatee!



Who's wanking him then?


----------



## malatesta32 (Sep 28, 2017)

special branch. top cockernee geezah ben jonson once referred to that as 'milking his epididymis.'


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 28, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> it has long been rumoured that he used the salon to launder money and that he fell out with KKKev over coke money. unfortunately, no one has any solid evidence either way. he definitely made lots of cash from EDL stuff which was never accounted for and the coke money could have been mixed in with that to disguise it's source. but again, no solid evidence. he is a fucken spiv, a conman and a career criminal. BNP - EDL - British Freedom - Quilliam - Pegida - and his new UHT (uniting hateful twats). what next UKIP? The Conservative Party? He has been doing deals with plod since he arrested on his way to scotland (in 2011?). when he got done for the mortgage fraud he said 'its a stitch-up' implying that he did a deal with plod but they fucked him over it and he got sent down anyway. a nasty piece of shit and an incorrigible masturbatee!



Read his book. It's got to be the longest whinge ever put to paper.
Nothing is his fault,  the funniest stuff is about the mortgage fraud "The money was only resting in my account".


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 23, 2018)

Hot water for Tommy?

Finsbury Park suspect said he was 'going to kill Muslims' in pub before attack, court hears


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 23, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Hot water for Tommy?
> 
> Finsbury Park suspect said he was 'going to kill Muslims' in pub before attack, court hears



Stupid place to look for Muslims.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 23, 2018)

It's just spam. 

What questions would this bring up?


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 23, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> It's just spam.
> 
> What questions would this bring up?



It's not clear from the article whether there's any back and forth , a conversation.

Don't think it has any legal implications (I think they might have learned from the failed prosecutions against Nick Griffin) but it will dog him and any further attempts to break into the mainstream.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 23, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> It's not clear from the article whether there's any back and forth , a conversation.
> 
> Don't think it has any legal implications (I think they might have learned from the failed prosecutions against Nick Griffin) but it will dog him and any further attempts to break into the mainstream.


It might be that he doesnt go away for a while but lets face it he will never  break into the mainstream. Anyway read The Rise of the Right about the EDL , its provocative and fascinating.


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 23, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> It might be that he doesnt go away for a while but lets face it he will never  break into the mainstream. Anyway read The Rise of the Right about the EDL , its provocative and fascinating.



Newsnight, This Morning , Amazon bestseller lists? He's pretty mainstream.  

Yes I should read that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 23, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> It's not clear from the article whether there's any back and forth , a conversation.



With Fransen maybe. Robinson’s was a mail sent from a subscribe list (Rebel Media).


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 23, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Newsnight, This Morning , Amazon bestseller lists? He's pretty mainstream.
> 
> Yes I should read that.


World of difference in being on TV now and again and building a movement, ask George Galloway.


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 23, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> World of difference in being on TV now and again and building a movement, ask George Galloway.



Yeah but he's got widespread public recognition. They were queuing up to get selfies with him at the FLA march. 

He's not 'SpeerofOdin88' ranting away into the void on Stormfront is what I'm saying.


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 30, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> It might be that he doesnt go away for a while but lets face it he will never  break into the mainstream. Anyway read The Rise of the Right about the EDL , its provocative and fascinating.



Just read it. Some interesting stuff but quite disappointing in lots of ways.

The authors ride their own hobby horse relentlessly and we don't get to hear from any if their "subjects" until around 80 pages in.

There's a real lack of definition of who it is that they're actually talking to and where. I appreciate the need for anonymisation but surely we could have had a broad idea of region for example. The EDL were very strong in the N.E and Yorkshire for example but didn't get off the ground in the South West or the Midlands in quite the same way.

A lot of the interviewees are said to not be particularly involved in the EDL, but we're informed by the academics that their views "align with the EDLs". Surely there's got to be an element of confirmation bias there?

Added to this, despite the mandatory potshots at "middle class liberals" "sashaying around with chardonnay" who are embarrassed by the atavistic Neanderthals of the white working class, the academics themselves adopt a pretty sneery tone to their subjects. "Big Baz's grasp of macroeconomics was not particularly sophisticated" , "Some of our more cogent interviewees" etc etc. 

I had hoped for a bit more of a thorough investigation, actual attendance at an EDL demo for example or an interview with one of the R.Os.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 30, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I had hoped for a bit more of a thorough investigation, actual attendance at an EDL demo for example or an interview with one of the R.Os.


you ask too much of armchair investigators.


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 30, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> you ask too much of armchair investigators.



They're not armchair investigators apparently , they're the "informed vanguard".


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 30, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> They're not armchair investigators apparently , they're the "informed vanguard".


armchair investigators armed with a stash of 'hope not hate' and 'searchlight', with copies of books by french thinkers on their shelves.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 30, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> armchair investigators armed with a stash of 'hope not hate' and 'searchlight', with copies of books by french thinkers on their shelves.


You couldn't be further wrong in this case.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 30, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Just read it. Some interesting stuff but quite disappointing in lots of ways.
> 
> The authors ride their own hobby horse relentlessly and we don't get to hear from any if their "subjects" until around 80 pages in.
> 
> ...


What did you find interesting ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 30, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> You couldn't be further wrong in this case.


i'm glad to hear it


----------



## Red Sky (Jan 30, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> What did you find interesting ?



I'm not totally in disagreement with their assessment ( although they seem a little confused about what they think of Corbyn) .

Any project which tries to explain the EDL without just writing them off as thickos is interesting.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 10, 2018)

Apparently Robinson got slapped in London today? Good work to the ‘left wing extremists’ involved.


----------



## albionism (Mar 10, 2018)

I call bullshit. He's released a 2 second video
of the "incident", in which he asks for a "one on one".
I reckon it's bogus as fuck. The above photo looks 
stage managed.
English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson 'attacked' outside McDonald's


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 11, 2018)

albionism said:


> The above photo looks
> stage managed.



Yeah, they're all just standing still for one thing.


----------



## paolo (Mar 11, 2018)

I’m out of touch. Are this lot still going?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 11, 2018)

paolo said:


> I’m out of touch. Are this lot still going?



McDonald's? I think so.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 11, 2018)

Meet me at McDonalds


----------



## paolo (Mar 11, 2018)

On the piss take, I’ll take it as no then


----------



## cantsin (Mar 12, 2018)

albionism said:


> I call bullshit. He's released a 2 second video
> of the "incident", in which he asks for a "one on one".
> I reckon it's bogus as fuck. The above photo looks
> stage managed.
> English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson 'attacked' outside McDonald's



the way he goes down just doesn't look quite right, + the total failure of 7 of them to lay a finger on him

either way, he went down to the AFN bash, camera'd up,  looking for what he got :  clicks / views / shares / ad rev.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 12, 2018)

cantsin said:


> the way he goes down just doesn't look quite right, + the total failure of 7 of them to lay a finger on him
> 
> either way, he went down to the AFN bash, camera'd up,  looking for what he got :  clicks / views / shares / ad rev.



You think it was an inside job?


----------



## cantsin (Mar 12, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> You think it was an inside job?



can never be arsed with conspira-bobbins, but bearing in mind how defined / predictable TR + crew's  MO is now ( go somewhere with camera / mike, try and get twatted by lefties / Muslims etc) , then I guess it's not out of the realm of possibility.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 12, 2018)

Most of them seem to stand there doing fuck all whilst they’re happily being filmed watching Tommy fall over. Then there’s some other footage of the camera operator being ‘attacked’ where the camera gets conveniently lowered as if to convey this. 
I call bullshit I think.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 12, 2018)

cantsin said:


> either way, he went down to the AFN bash, camera'd up,  looking for what he got :  clicks / views / shares / ad rev.



I know someone who went to that and nothing has been mentioned about an attack on TR. There doesn’t appear to be any fanfare coming from anywhere actually. Could be for security reasons but I’d imagine people would be tripping over themselves to brag about lamping TR. there’s zilch, nothing.


----------



## albionism (Mar 13, 2018)

Went down like a sack of shit without really being touched.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 13, 2018)

Attack on Steven Yaxley Lennon was a total embarrassment and just pathetic.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 13, 2018)

In the video there's 2 camera angles of the initial moment he's attacked..... its a different person in each one.

Also in one he drops a camera, in the other, he doesn't.

Its faked, and badly faked.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 13, 2018)

sim667 said:


> In the video there's 2 camera angles of the initial moment he's attacked..... its a different person in each one.
> 
> Also in one he drops a camera, in the other, he doesn't.
> 
> Its faked, and badly faked.


Is it also faked when he goes to the Kurdish centre? AFN are not fit for purpose. If that is militant anti fascism then no wonder I and others never got involved with them


----------



## sim667 (Mar 13, 2018)

The Flying Pig said:


> Is it also faked when he goes to the Kurdish centre? AFN are not fit for purpose. If that is militant anti fascism then no wonder I and others never got involved with them


I haven't seen the video.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2018)

The Flying Pig said:


> Is it also faked when he goes to the Kurdish centre? AFN are not fit for purpose. If that is militant anti fascism then no wonder I and others never got involved with them


i thought you didn't get involved with them because you weren't a militant anti-fascist. it's also my belief this was north london afn, a different creature from london afn.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Mar 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought you didn't get involved with them because you weren't a militant anti-fascist. it's also my belief this was north london afn, a different creature from london afn.


Wrong, if only you paid close attention to detail.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

The Flying Pig said:


> Is it also faked when he goes to the Kurdish centre? AFN are not fit for purpose. If that is militant anti fascism then no wonder I and others never got involved with them



You did get involved with them remember?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I know someone who went to that and nothing has been mentioned about an attack on TR. There doesn’t appear to be any fanfare coming from anywhere actually. Could be for security reasons but I’d imagine people would be tripping over themselves to brag about lamping TR. there’s zilch, nothing.



Why didn't you go to it and tell everyone where they're going wrong ?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Most of them seem to stand there doing fuck all whilst they’re happily being filmed watching Tommy fall over. Then there’s some other footage of the camera operator being ‘attacked’ where the camera gets conveniently lowered as if to convey this.
> I call bullshit I think.



This is TRs edited footage.


----------



## Corax (Mar 13, 2018)

You can close the thread now - I've found it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Why didn't you go to it and tell everyone where they're going wrong ?



Because I had childcare duties. Plus I heard ‘self crit’ is all the rage.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Because I had childcare duties. Plus I heard ‘self crit’ is all the rage.



It isn't and there was a creche.


----------



## Corax (Mar 13, 2018)

*Football Lads Alliance
*
For info: One of the founders and driving forces is Andrew Swallow, of ICF infamy.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> It isn't and there was a creche.



Did many drag their kids several hundred miles to attend?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Did many drag their kids several hundred miles to attend?



A few yeah. Where did you get the " self crit" idea from?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> A few yeah. Where did you get the " self crit" idea from?



It was advice doled out by an AFN member some time ago.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It was advice doled out by an AFN member some time ago.



Where?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Where?



It escapes me now.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2018)

If it's not a scam what on earth motivated who ever it was to look so bad on a video? And why get filmed?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> If it's not a scam what on earth motivated who ever it was to look so bad on a video? And why get filmed?



I guess you'll have to sit back in your armchair and figure it out.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I guess you'll have to sit back in your armchair and figure it out.


Settee.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Settee.



Three piece suite hopefully. Room for Magnus and the Pig as well.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Three piece suite hopefully. Room for Magnus and the Pig as well.



Oh you were there? I see.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh you were there? I see.



At the conference yes. At the punch up no.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Three piece suite hopefully. Room for Magnus and the Pig as well.


One three seater settee and a two seater settee but the six dogs make it quite competitive to get a seat at times. Anyway what's your take on the video?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> One three seater settee and a two seater settee but the six dogs make it quite competitive to get a seat at times. Anyway what's your take on the video?



Some people punched Tommy Robinson. Their identities and motivations are as yet unclear.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> At the conference yes. At the punch up no.



So you’re looking at it from the hypothetical armchair also.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you’re looking at it from the hypothetical armchair also.



My armchair is far from hypothetical . I only have a cat so there's plenty of room.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

I did see Tommy after the ding dong and if he staged the whole thing then he's a better actor than he is a pundit.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I did see Tommy after the ding dong and if he staged the whole thing then he's a better actor than he is a pundit.



I just can’t fathom why anti-fascists keep handing the far right propaganda coups. If it’s kosher then he has no need to stage anything.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Some people punched Tommy Robinson. Their identities and motivations are as yet unclear.


Yes but why is it on video ?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I just can’t fathom why anti-fascists keep handing the far right propaganda coups. If it’s kosher then he has no need to stage anything.



I don't see how it's a coup.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Yes but why is it on video ?



Because they allowed themselves to be filmed thus handing over the intellectual property rights and narrative over to Lennon and co.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Yes but why is it on video ?



Because someone filmed it?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I don't see how it's a coup.



It hardly places Tommy in a bad light does it?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Because they allowed themselves to be filmed thus handing over the intellectual property rights and narrative over to Lennon and co.



This is where it gets frustrating. Why does anti fascism have a bus load of back seat drivers? Step up and show us all how it's done. Please.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It hardly places Tommy in a bad light does it?



He runs off , he starts squealing. Maybe you found it impressive.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> This is where it gets frustrating. Why does anti fascism have a bus load of back seat drivers? Step up and show us all how it's done. Please.



You need teaching about avoiding being filmed?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> He runs off , he starts squealing. Maybe you found it impressive.



He’s painted it as being vastly outnumbered by ghastly ‘antifa’.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You need teaching about avoiding being filmed?



Maybe there's dozens of high profile right wingers getting a kicking (a proper kicking, not a crap middle class identity politics kicking like this one) every week off camera and yet no one ever hears about it.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He’s painted it as being vastly outnumbered by ghastly ‘antifa’.



He's hardly going to put a negative spin on it is he?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I did see Tommy after the ding dong and if he staged the whole thing then he's a better actor than he is a pundit.


Kerfuffle rather than ding dong. Anyway how was he?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He’s painted it as being vastly outnumbered by ghastly ‘antifa’.



Yeah, when he rocked up to the conference with the police he was talking about 'ten big blokes in balaclavas'.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2018)

Anyway good to see anti fascist turning the tide


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Kerfuffle rather than ding dong. Anyway how was he?



Rattled. Short , fat.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 13, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Anyway good to see anti fascist turning the tide



Not even close. Nobody is underestimating the scale of the task. Question is , what are you going to do about it?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 13, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Not even close. Nobody is underestimating the scale of the task. Question is , what are you going to do about it?


look mate , its very flattering but I'm not at the moment  jumping on a plane back to England to sort this out.What do you suggest?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> look mate , its very flattering but I'm not at the moment  jumping on a plane back to England to sort this out.



That doesn't seem to have inhibited the flow of advice up until now.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> That doesn't seem to have inhibited the flow of advice up until now.



So what you’re saying is nobody can comment unless they’re currently involved with the AFN?


----------



## LDC (Mar 14, 2018)

Good effort, but it was a bit embarrassing, seen worse kickings given out in the playground ffs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So what you’re saying is nobody can comment unless they’re currently involved with the AFN?


if you read red sky's post again you might not post such a crass response.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> This is where it gets frustrating. Why does anti fascism have a bus load of back seat drivers? Step up and show us all how it's done. Please.


yeh but they can't do that AND remain ideologically pure


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Good effort, but it was a bit embarrassing, seen worse kickings given out in the playground ffs.



Everyone's such a fucking hard case.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> That doesn't seem to have inhibited the flow of advice up until now.


And why should it?


----------



## LDC (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Everyone's such a fucking hard case.



Yeah thought that might be the (fair!) reaction, but it was quite shit!


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> And why should it?



Sit there bitching about how everyone's doing it wrong and then abdicate the minute you're asked for your solution? How's that helpful?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Yeah thought that might be the (fair!) reaction, but it was quite shit!



Think people have watched too many films. What did you expect , his head to come clean off and sail through McDonald's window?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Sit there bitching about how everyone's doing it wrong and then abdicate the minute you're asked for your solution? How's that helpful?



My impression is that militant anti-fascism has never been a good way of receiving universal unconditional praise.

Having said that, people I know on Green Lanes are quite pleased that Tommy got a kicking.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> My impression is that militant anti-fascism has never been a good way of receiving universal unconditional praise.
> 
> Having said that, people I know on Green Lanes are quite pleased that Tommy got a kicking.



It's kind of ironic that it's the right that's having a love in at the moment. It's a very supportive environment .


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Think people have watched too many films. What did you expect , his head to come clean off and sail through McDonald's window?



So it is real then?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> So it is real then?



I'm not sure what you mean by that?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So what you’re saying is nobody can comment unless they’re currently involved with the AFN?



Another key difference between the far right and the Left is that they lead by example whereas the Left instructs via critique.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Another key difference between the far right and the Left is that they lead by example whereas the Left instructs via critique.



I bet if you look at St*ormfr*nt there are people on there saying everyone is doing it wrong.

Fair play to you and all, but this is all coming across as a bit needy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I bet if you look at St*ormfr*nt there are people on there saying everyone is doing it wrong.
> 
> Fair play to you and all, but this is all coming across as a bit needy.


i thought s*ormfr*nt was no more.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i thought s*ormfr*nt was no more.



You're probably right and that just goes to show how out of touch I am!


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

maybe not...


e2a2: no, it's def still going


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> You're probably right and that just goes to show how out of touch I am!


you were right and despite reports of it being shut down a quick look at the google cache shows posts from march 2018


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I bet if you look at St*ormfr*nt there are people on there saying everyone is doing it wrong.
> 
> Fair play to you and all, but this is all coming across as a bit needy.



Stormfront is more your Neo Nazi, white supremacist far right. I've no doubt that's full of old gits, conspiraloons and Walter Mitty characters. 

I'm talking about what could broadly be called the Identitarian or Counter jihadist right. They're the ones making all the strides at the moment.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Stormfront is more your Neo Nazi, white supremacist far right. I've no doubt that's full of old gits, conspiraloons and Walter Mitty characters.
> 
> I'm talking about what could broadly be called the Identitarian or Counter jihadist right. They're the ones making all the strides at the moment.



Indeed. Perhaps that raises the question of what AFN can do to create an environment which is more supportive? (Hint: there is little chance of persuading old people on internet forums to be cheerleaders for you or even offer constructive advice).


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Stormfront is more your Neo Nazi, white supremacist far right. I've no doubt that's full of old gits, conspiraloons and Walter Mitty characters.
> 
> I'm talking about what could broadly be called the Identitarian or Counter jihadist right. They're the ones making all the strides at the moment.


What would you say these strides consist of at the moment?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Indeed. Perhaps that raises the question of what AFN can do to create an environment which is more supportive? (Hint: there is little chance of persuading old people on internet forums to be cheerleaders for you or even offer constructive advice).



I'm not the AFN . This isn't some kind of outreach program!


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> What would you say these strides consist of at the moment?



Massive increase in social media presence. Being seen as the voice of common sense.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I'm not the AFN . This isn't some kind of outreach program!



Fair enough!


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Massive increase in social media presence. Being seen as the voice of common sense.



That said. Just seen that Britain First have been removed from Facebook. Not a victory, but a thing that happened.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Another key difference between the far right and the Left is that they lead by example whereas the Left instructs via critique.



True. AFN activists regularly critique those who led by example.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> True. AFN activists regularly critique those who led by example.


yeh and here we never critique anyone


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 14, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh and here we never critique anyone



Just pointing out that he doesn’t appear to like it when the boot is on the other foot.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> True. AFN activists regularly critique those who led by example.



Can you point to any examples ?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Can you point to any examples ?



I don’t need too because I’m fairly confident you know full well what I’m talking about. So let’s leave it at that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don’t need too because I’m fairly confident you know full well what I’m talking about. So let’s leave it at that.


perhaps you could enlighten the rest of us.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don’t need too because I’m fairly confident you know full well what I’m talking about. So let’s leave it at that.



I've no idea what you're talking about. Is this from the same source that told you that self crit was 'all the rage'. In which case someone's having a laugh.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I've no idea what you're talking about. Is this from the same source that told you that self crit was 'all the rage'. In which case someone's having a laugh.



The ‘source’ is my own eyes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The ‘source’ is my own eyes.


so you saw something you won't tell anyone about.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> so you saw something you won't tell anyone about.



So you read something?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> So you read something?


yeh but i'm none the wiser


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but i'm none the wiser



None one is it seems.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Massive increase in social media presence. Being seen as the voice of common sense.


What does that mean? How are the two connected?

How is common sense construed nowadays?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> What does that mean? How are the two connected?
> 
> How is common sense construed nowadays?



That their videos and thinkpieces are voluntarily shared and liked by hundreds of thousands of people.

This has an enormous influence on what it is 'normal' to think.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

How does the process _see it on social media think it _work?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> How does the process _see it on social media think it _work?



It's the sharing rather than the seeing that's interesting. By sharing you are generally indicating agreement. 

Are you on Facebook or Twitter?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> It's the sharing rather than the seeing that's interesting. By sharing you are generally indicating agreement.
> 
> Are you on Facebook or Twitter?


I'm on the latter. I don't use it v often.

Agreement - what does that mean?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

In the normal English usage of the term your honour.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> In the normal English usage of the term your honour.


Agreement means they agree with things they share on facebook?

OK, to what level? 

How are you as an anti-fascist dealing with that.

After getting racism off social media then what?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Agreement means they agree with things they share on facebook?
> 
> OK, to what level?
> 
> ...



What are you driving at here? Do you not think it's a significant phenomena ?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What are you driving at here? Do you not think it's a significant phenomena ?


I'm asking you what how and why this thing that you IDed is significant.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I'm asking you what how and why this thing that you IDed is significant.



Except this isn't a cross examination and I'm asking you what your opinion is.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Except this isn't a cross examination and I'm asking you what your opinion is.


Fucking hell.

Is this serious - you post about the new right. I ask you about them. You literally have nothing to say other than that they are on the on internet.

Have you prepared a basic info file


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

So fascism is the public expression of racist thoughts.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Fucking hell.
> 
> Is this serious - you post about the new right. I ask you about them. You literally have nothing to say other than that they are on the on internet.
> 
> Have you prepared a basic info file



Why would I be preparing a crib sheet for you? I don't know why you're carrying on like it's an episode of Crown Court.

Racism isn't fascism on its own no. It is an important precursor. Surely you don't need me to explain why a mass belief that Islam is the No1 problem that the country faces would present an issue? An issue not just for Muslims who will bear the brunt of it but for any leftist project.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

You will _crush racism._

Ok

What about crushing what produces racism? _We're doing that as well._

I think you need off the internet. You've won - the biggest company in the world has banned BF. That's the end of them. Right?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

The idea that people are social media  - ?

Stop worrying about what someone said about you.

non-stop 365 anti-fascism.


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> The idea that people are social media  - ?
> 
> Stop worrying about what someone said about you.
> 
> non-stop 365 anti-fascism.



I think you should go to bed.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Is this critique?


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Is this critique?



No , it's gibberish. Bedtime.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 14, 2018)

Britain First had 2 million followers on faceache. 2 fucking million!


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Britain First had 2 million followers on faceache. 2 fucking million!


Gone now. Anti-fascism won.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Gone now. Anti-fascism won.



Faceache won...until the respawn


----------



## Red Sky (Mar 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Gone now. Anti-fascism won.



Mental


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 18, 2018)

Neo Nazi poster in Peckham rye park today.


(Pinched from the ED Forum)

Will be looking for any of these cunts putting up this shite


----------



## billbond (Mar 19, 2018)

There are lots of them dotted around Woolwich, see one near the park


"Will be looking for any of these cunts putting up this shite"
Why , what can you do or allowed to do


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> Neo Nazi poster in Peckham rye park today.
> View attachment 130420
> 
> (Pinched from the ED Forum)
> ...


Yeh it is pisspoor even by fascist standards


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2018)

billbond said:


> There are lots of them dotted around Woolwich, see one near the park
> 
> 
> "Will be looking for any of these cunts putting up this shite"
> Why , what can you do or allowed to do


Thinking firmly inside the box there


----------



## bemused (Mar 19, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Thinking firmly inside the box there



The red chap has really long arms.


----------



## comrade spurski (Mar 19, 2018)

billbond said:


> There are lots of them dotted around Woolwich, see one near the park
> 
> 
> "Will be looking for any of these cunts putting up this shite"
> Why , what can you do or allowed to do



What park in Woolwich?
do you mean the park in North Woolwich?


----------



## cantsin (Mar 26, 2018)

billbond said:


> There are lots of them dotted around Woolwich, see one near the park
> 
> 
> "Will be looking for any of these cunts putting up this shite"
> Why , what can you do or allowed to do



anyone based around the Gab.ai/ network is likely to be a Pepe-loving cosplay wannabe nazi, think it would be v constructive for some of them to get an intro to the IRL / realities of this shit at some point, a' la Richard Spencer


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 28, 2018)

Former English Defence League Leader Tommy Robinson Suspended From Twitter - Again

This doesn't bode well in the long term, but is also quite funny in the short term.


----------



## jimmer (Mar 28, 2018)

cantsin said:


> anyone based around the Gab.ai/ network is likely to be a Pepe-loving cosplay wannabe nazi, think it would be v constructive for some of them to get an intro to the IRL / realities of this shit at some point, a' la Richard Spencer


They're using Gab.ai because they're a continuation of a banned terrorist group, not because they're into Pepe memes.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 28, 2018)

jimmer said:


> They're using Gab.ai because they're a continuation of a banned terrorist group, not because they're into Pepe memes.



so it's NA ?


----------



## jimmer (Apr 5, 2018)

cantsin said:


> so it's NA ?


Apparently so, Hope Not Hate are reporting it's being run by Alex Davies who was one of the founders and former leaders of NA. Posters have been appearing near where people who were active in/or around NA are believed to be living.


----------



## cantsin (Apr 5, 2018)

jimmer said:


> Apparently so, Hope Not Hate are reporting it's being run by Alex Davies who was one of the founders and former leaders of NA. Posters have been appearing near where people who were active in/or around NA are believed to be living.



haven't looked into them in any meaningful way, but aren't N.A.  / new version  a bit cos play / wannabe nazi, with the odd psycho thrown in for good measure ? Or have i got the wrong end of the stick, and they'd give the C18 mid- late 90's lot a run for their money?


----------



## StigoftheDig (Apr 6, 2018)

I'm not quite sure where to post this (as a newish member of this forum) but thought this might be a useful first place. 

Generation Identity, the "identitarian" organisation are holding a conference in London on April 14th. 

There is a counter protest/action.  

Oppose 'Generation Identity'

Oppose GI (@OpposeGI) on Twitter

#Antifa #London April 14: Oppose Generation Identity Conference

I can't speak personally on the authenticity of any of the above beyond saying "it looks legit"... 

Mmm, not much use, but maybe a starting point for people who might be interested.


----------



## sim667 (May 10, 2018)

Trying to find the vids of TR breaking into peoples offices to confront them...... anyone know the ones I'm talking about?


----------



## The39thStep (May 11, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Trying to find the vids of TR breaking into peoples offices to confront them...... anyone know the ones I'm talking about?


is that the Quillam one?


----------



## SpineyNorman (May 13, 2018)

Didn't they go into some KFC office to protest about bacon box meals or something?


----------



## ddraig (May 13, 2018)

SpineyNorman said:


> Didn't they go into some KFC office to protest about bacon box meals or something?


no, about hallal


----------



## ddraig (May 13, 2018)

EDL targets Blackburn KFC in protest over Halal chicken | Lancashire Telegraph


----------



## sim667 (May 14, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> is that the Quillam one?



Guardian offices, in a series called troll watch for rebel media.


----------



## Ranbay (May 25, 2018)

Tommy nicked again for harassing people outside court before charge.... fucking div


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 25, 2018)

He’s on a suspended sentence too. Oops.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 25, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He’s on a suspended sentence too. Oops.


suspicion of causing breach of the peace no crime though.


----------



## 19force8 (May 25, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He’s on a suspended sentence too. Oops.


And another DFLA free speech p̶i̶s̶s̶ ̶u̶p̶   rally* due in Manchester June 2nd.

* sorry - "respectful commemoration for the victims of the Manchester bombing" [my arse!]


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> suspicion of causing breach of the peace no crime though.



Contempt of court is though.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 25, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Contempt of court is though.


well spotted. but i am less confident than you appear to be that this will trigger the activation of the suspended sentence


----------



## cyril_smear (May 25, 2018)

Let's hope nobody waits outside elland road police station in Leeds for him...


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 25, 2018)

Can someone help me out with this one? Has been nicked, charged and sentenced in the same day?


----------



## 19force8 (May 25, 2018)

I'm assuming it's a contempt of court thing. In which case the judge is also jury and executioner 

E2A He's probably safe for a couple of weeks - Ramadan finishes on the ides of june


----------



## 19force8 (May 25, 2018)

This from Contempt of court - Wikipedia for England and Wales:



> *Criminal contempt of court[edit]*
> The Crown Court is a superior court of record under the Senior Courts Act 1981 and accordingly has power to punish for contempt of its own motion. The Divisional Court has stated that this power applies in three circumstances:
> 
> 
> ...


It's a fair bet he was in breach of at least one of the three above if not all three.


----------



## Ranbay (May 25, 2018)

Leeds Crown Court Listings, hearings, cases & details

Details: Contempt of Court Proceedings - Case adjourned until 12:30 - 12:22
Contempt of Court Proceedings - Case adjourned until 14:00 - 13:12
Contempt of Court Proceedings - Resume - 13:59
Contempt of Court Proceedings - Case Closed - 14:26


----------



## The39thStep (May 25, 2018)

contempt of court and therefore breach of suspended sentence I think


----------



## cyril_smear (May 25, 2018)

I call bullshit on the sentence.


----------



## D'wards (May 25, 2018)

According to Twitter Tommy Robinson was arrested for Breach of the Peace today for livestreaming outside the court where the trial of one of the Rotherham paedophile gangs was happening. 
Apparently he was whisked off to court and sentenced to 13 months there and then. Twitter also claims there's a media blackout on this, and certainly there are stories about his arrest but none about his sentence. 

It's hard to verify the truths of this though. I think he may have already been on a suspended and that kicks in if you are convicted again.

A lot of people are going ballistic about his sentence in Twitter, but as I have stated i suspect there's more to it than just being given 13 months for filming a paedophile cunt as he goes into court


----------



## The39thStep (May 26, 2018)

If you read my post above you will find that your thinking about him being on a suspended sentence is correct. His original sentence was three months for contempt .His self publicising and reckless behaviour could have led to a claim for mistrial by media interference which would have not been in the victims , who he claims to be fighting for, interests.
However there are a couple of things that stick out for me .Firstly the swiftness of the arrest and sentence however laudable is in contrast to the appaulling time it has taken for these grooming cases to get to court and for justice to be done. Secondly given the social media profile he has the Police and CPS shoud have had a far better media strategy central to which has to be an explaination of the sentence handed down. How its got to a situation where the far right are seen , wrongly or rightly, as the ones who champion the working class victims of systematic rape is depressing.


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2018)

His business model is fantastic, the amount of donations he's getting is great.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 26, 2018)

D'wards said:


> According to Twitter Tommy Robinson was arrested for Breach of the Peace today for livestreaming outside the court where the trial of one of the Rotherham paedophile gangs was happening.
> Apparently he was whisked off to court and sentenced to 13 months there and then. Twitter also claims there's a media blackout on this, and certainly there are stories about his arrest but none about his sentence.
> 
> It's hard to verify the truths of this though. I think he may have already been on a suspended and that kicks in if you are convicted again.
> ...



It seems he has being locked up. I was gobsmacked that somebody could be arrested and sentenced in the space of a few hours... Take in to account the logistics of it all. 

According to posts on here he was in court at half 12 which is 1 hour after his arrest. I couldn't care less that he's in prison but I am a bit perplexed at how he can be not on remand but sentenced in such a short space of time.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 26, 2018)

I predict an appeal and walk out.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 26, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> It seems he has being locked up. I was gobsmacked that somebody could be arrested and sentenced in the space of a few hours... Take in to account the logistics of it all.
> 
> According to posts on here he was in court at half 12 which is 1 hour after his arrest. I couldn't care less that he's in prison but I am a bit perplexed at how he can be not on remand but sentenced in such a short space of time.



I’m taken aback too, but a suspended sentence means that if you break its conditions (with the same offence, no less) you go straight to the slammer.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 26, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> well spotted. but i am less confident than you appear to be that this will trigger the activation of the suspended sentence



We forgot to bet on this.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 26, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m taken aback too, but a suspended sentence means that if you break its conditions, you go straight to the slammer.



I don't think it's as simple as that. We are talking a gap of 60 minutes between arrest and appearing in court... Then there has to be admissions or denials.

20 minutes to get to elland road, 30 minutes to get booked in to custody if your lucky, back to the Bridewell in Leeds crown court, get booked in there, etc etc.

Maybe it's different with contempt of court?? I'd like to know.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 26, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> well spotted. but i am less confident than you appear to be that this will trigger the activation of the suspended sentence



How can it trigger the suspended without an admission or a conviction? Again, maybe contempt of court is different; I don't know.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 26, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> I don't think it's as simple as that. We are talking a gap of 60 minutes between arrest and appearing in court... Then there has to be admissions or denials.
> 
> 20 minutes to get to elland road, 30 minutes to get booked in to custody if your lucky, back to the Bridewell in Leeds crown court, get booked in there, etc etc.
> 
> Maybe it's different with contempt of court?? I'd like to know.



Maybe the Robinson team are lying? I’ve no idea why it’d happen that quickly and there be a ‘media blackout’ but you can get sent down from a court with immediate effect if you’ve broken the terms of a suspended sentence.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 26, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Maybe the Robinson team are lying? I’ve no idea why it’d happen that quickly and there be a ‘media blackout’ but you can get sent down from a court with immediate effect if you’ve broken the terms of a suspended sentence.



You would assume the media blackout is due to reporting restrictions on the trial he was "covering".

Again though, I don't think it's as simple as a judge arbitrarily deciding you have breached the terms of a suspended sentence. You'd have to be convicted of a further offence first surely?

Out in a fortnight I reckon, and a massive victory for this cunts cause.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 26, 2018)

I suspect there'll be a lot more people outside Leeds CC following this particular trial on Monday. 

Mission accomplished!!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 26, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> You would assume the media blackout is due to reporting restrictions on the trial he was "covering".
> 
> Again though, I don't think it's as simple as a judge arbitrarily deciding you have breached the terms of a suspended sentence. You'd have to be convicted of a further offence first surely?
> 
> Out in a fortnight I reckon, and a massive victory for this cunts cause.



There may be another court case and that he simply wasn’t granted bail.


----------



## hot air baboon (May 26, 2018)

D'wards said:


> A lot of people are going ballistic about his sentence in Twitter



petition for his release on change.org that's now on 122,000 signatures


----------



## alan_ (May 26, 2018)

it was breach of the peace he was arrested for which triggered a contempt of court which was outstanding then because of that the suspended sentence came about and he got 13 month. Very very quick justice handed down. The arrest was done as he stood and livestreamed outside the court. I don't think the coppers acted on their own volition. (the trial judge was standing at the window looking at him) So did someone order him to be arrested because quite honestly he was not creating any breach as he livestreamed. The trial verdict incidentally is in and the proceedings were to sentence so they cannot even say that he would have prejudiced the trial. none of this is on the BBC or Guardian nor is the Whitehall demo as there is a blackout on reporting. I know that this is tommy robinson, but even so, the manoeuvres here stink


----------



## cyril_smear (May 26, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There may be another court case and that he simply wasn’t granted bail.



By all accounts he was sentenced, not just remanded.

Out in a fortnight... Massive victory for his cause.


----------



## alan_ (May 26, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> By all accounts he was sentenced, not just remanded.
> 
> Out in a fortnight... Massive victory for his cause.


A massive victory he is a fucking hero now to his supporters and his martyrdom has given them a focal point to rally round.
ie another demo tomorrow


----------



## Ranbay (May 26, 2018)

plus the money in.... he's made loads in donations in the past 24 hours.


----------



## The39thStep (May 26, 2018)

alan_ said:


> it was breach of the peace he was arrested for which triggered a contempt of court which was outstanding then because of that the suspended sentence came about and he got 13 month. Very very quick justice handed down. The arrest was done as he stood and livestreamed outside the court. I don't think the coppers acted on their own volition. (the trial judge was standing at the window looking at him) So did someone order him to be arrested because quite honestly he was not creating any breach as he livestreamed. The trial verdict incidentally is in and the proceedings were to sentence so they cannot even say that he would have prejudiced the trial. none of this is on the BBC or Guardian nor is the Whitehall demo as there is a blackout on reporting. I know that this is tommy robinson, but even so, the manoeuvres here stink


Alan, Who do you think has ordered a blackout or for him to be arrested?


----------



## 19force8 (May 26, 2018)

My guess:

When there's reporting restrictions on a case and the judge finds out you're standing outside the court livestreaming a report about the case. And you've got form and a suspended sentence for this kind of thing. You'll find a very pissed off judge with the power to send you down and no viable defence.


----------



## 19force8 (May 26, 2018)

19force8 said:


> My guess:
> 
> When there's reporting restrictions on a case and the judge finds out you're standing outside the court livestreaming a report about the case. And you've got form and a suspended sentence for this kind of thing. You'll find a very pissed off judge with the power to send you down and no viable defence.



E2A I'll bet the reporting restrictions on the case extended to reporting this twats grandstanding.


----------



## MrSpikey (May 27, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> Again though, I don't think it's as simple as a judge arbitrarily deciding you have breached the terms of a suspended sentence. You'd have to be convicted of a further offence first surely?



No, you don't need to commit a further offence to breach the terms of a suspended sentence (although doing so almost certainly would). If a judge decides you have breached any of the conditions attached to a suspended sentence, they can send you straight to jail to serve the sentence.



cyril_smear said:


> Out in a fortnight I reckon, and a massive victory for this cunts cause.



If his 3 months suspended sentence has been activated, he'll serve that (half in prison, half on parole). If, as it seems, he's been convicted of another offence as well, he can appeal that, if he has grounds.


----------



## MrSpikey (May 27, 2018)

19force8 said:


> E2A I'll bet the reporting restrictions on the case extended to reporting this twats grandstanding.



If the image in this tweet is genuine, the judge put reporting restrictions on his case that expire when two other ongoing cases conclude:


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2018)

oh gawd... 

Tommy Robinson arrested for 'breaching the peace' outside court during grooming trial

Hundreds descend on Whitehall to protest Tommy Robinson's arrest


----------



## Mooney (May 27, 2018)

I’m an Englishman called George and I’m from Bermondsey, South-East London. My father was called George. He was also from Bermondsey. His father, another Bermondsey man, was called George too. And his father, my great-grandfather, is from the same place. He was called Edward. These three generations of my family, were in the fish trade. I’m the first member of my family not to work at the market in Billingsgate. 

My great-grandfather had eleven brothers and sisters. I dont know exactly how many of his generation married or exactly how many children they produced. So far I have traced over two-hundred of them. Many still live in Bermondsey and some are still in the fish trade. There are seven called George, and five called Victoria and I ask as a representative of all of them a question put by our fellow patron, Mr Enoch Powell. 

What do they know of England, who only England know? 

Or, what can my family, who come from England, who lived in England, who know only England, say of this, our country? 

Enoch Powell once spoke of the destruction of ancient Athens and the miraculous survival in the blackened ruins of that city of the sacred olive tree, the great symbol of Greece, their country. And he also spoke of us, the English, at the heart of a vanished empire, seeming to find within ourselves that one of our own oak trees, the sap rising from our ancient roots, and he said perhaps, after all, we who have inhabited this island fortress for an unbroken thousand years, brought up, as he said, within the sound of English bird song under the English oak, in the English meadow, beneath the red cross of St. George, it is us who know most of England. 

I appreciated him for saying that, because it was as if he spoke for my family, who understand well their own country. Who understand even better their own capital, London town, as we used to call her. As we strolled in her parks, as we marveled at her palaces, as we did buisness in the city, went west for a dance, took a boat on the river. The pale ale and eel pie of old London. The London of my family for as many generations as I know. A London that in my lifetime will be less than fifty percent white. A London, where my kids are grown up, a white person will be in the minority. 

Am I racist? No. Do I have anything against people of other races? No!

So what then is my gripe? 

My gripe, and I speak on behalf of seven men called George and five women called Victoiria, my gripe is quite simple. My gripe is that we were never asked. My gripe is that we were told, not asked, and everyday we are told again and again how we are to be and how our country is to be. We are told by them, and we know who they are, they’re English too. They are the class that has always set themselves apart, they are the class that has always taken what they wanted for themselves, and now they are the class that has giving England away. They have never asked us, and they never will. 

Do we allow them to sell our heritage? Or is it time for us to speak? To speak, to refuse them the right to give away our holy, or bountiful, our only England that has nurtured us, naked, grown us as the oak. Is it time for us that England know to come yet again and defend our country. With our hearts and our fists.

Is it time for us to rise again? 

I say yes.

Free Tommy Robinson!


----------



## Ranbay (May 27, 2018)

Mooney said:


> I’m an Englishman called George and I’m from Bermondsey, South-East London. My father was called George. He was also from Bermondsey. His father, another Bermondsey man, was called George too. And his father, my great-grandfather, is from the same place. He was called Edward. These three generations of my family, were in the fish trade. I’m the first member of my family not to work at the market in Billingsgate.
> 
> My great-grandfather had eleven brothers and sisters. I dont know exactly how many of his generation married or exactly how many children they produced. So far I have traced over two-hundred of them. Many still live in Bermondsey and some are still in the fish trade. There are seven called George, and five called Victoria and I ask as a representative of all of them a question put by our fellow patron, Mr Enoch Powell.
> 
> ...



How many tokens do i need to collect? how much is P&P?


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 27, 2018)

Mooney said:


> fascist drivel



this is a cut and paste job originally posted (as far as google search tells me) on some far right website in 2014.


----------



## The39thStep (May 27, 2018)

19force8 said:


> My guess:
> 
> When there's reporting restrictions on a case and the judge finds out you're standing outside the court livestreaming a report about the case. And you've got form and a suspended sentence for this kind of thing. You'll find a very pissed off judge with the power to send you down and no viable defence.


Alan seems to be hinting there is something more at play I think


----------



## chilango (May 27, 2018)

If I was at work this week I'd Photoshop up a Cornflakes packet with a "Free Tommy Robinson!" offer and a picture of a wee plastic figurine of Yaxley-Lennon on the front.

But I'm not. I'm on holiday.

So you'll have to use your imagination....


----------



## alan_ (May 27, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Alan seems to be hinting there is something more at play I think


No, that was really not my intention as I posted and any "hinting at something more" was also unintentional. I did find the events strange. TR was in a relatively empty square and after about an hour, seven or so cops decided to arrest him for breach of peace. This in turn triggered all the rest. I thought however that to trigger the rest, he would need to be tried on the original charge (Breach of Peace), but obviously not and he was on his way to jail within a few hours. I have never known justice to move so quickly and if this is the shape of things to come the lawyers will simply not stand for it as there will be nothing to charge for.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 27, 2018)

He wasn’t ‘in a relatively empty square’. He was filming a court, which is what he’s been lifted for previously.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 27, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> this is a cut and paste job originally posted (as far as google search tells me) on some far right website in 2014.


Apparently taking the speech from a BBC show called "NCS: Manhunt" http://americandigest.org/wp/im-an-englishman/


----------



## The39thStep (May 27, 2018)

alan_ said:


> No, that was really not my intention as I posted and any "hinting at something more" was also unintentional. I did find the events strange. TR was in a relatively empty square and after about an hour, seven or so cops decided to arrest him for breach of peace. This in turn triggered all the rest. I thought however that to trigger the rest, he would need to be tried on the original charge (Breach of Peace), but obviously not and he was on his way to jail within a few hours. I have never known justice to move so quickly and if this is the shape of things to come the lawyers will simply not stand for it as there will be nothing to charge for.


I'm all for speedy justice providing there is due process.The fact is that he was already on a suspended sentence for contempt , the trials for the alleged are complex and split into a number of different proceedings . Because of this and to minimise any further allegations of contempt  the judge has been very clear about reporting on the trials. Every other journalist has managed to follow the rules apart from our Stephen who rather than turn up at the court and ask a member of the court staff if the trial is still on and would it be ok to 'broadcast live' outside the court steams in regardless. Of course a quick phone call to his solicitor, who represented him at his last contempt case , no doubt would have enabled him to be given some guidance and assistance on where he stood legally or illegally.There is already a comment in the press that one of the defendents may use this incident in an appeal. Is that really what the victims in this case deserve? Its  a great pity that the Police and the courts didnt move as quickly to prosecute and bring to justice the perpertrators in this case as quickly as they have with this self publicising obsessed with victimhood  maverick .


----------



## MrSpikey (May 28, 2018)

alan_ said:


> This in turn triggered all the rest. I thought however that to trigger the rest, he would need to be tried on the original charge (Breach of Peace), but obviously not and he was on his way to jail within a few hours. I have never known justice to move so quickly and if this is the shape of things to come the lawyers will simply not stand for it as there will be nothing to charge for.



If the court decided he breached the conditions of his suspended sentence, that would be activated and he'd be off to jail without the need for any new charge (although it does appear that there were new charges, if the reported sentence length is correct).

Being arrested and charged are different things - he was apparently arrested for BotP, but, if reports are correct, it would appear he was ultimately charged with something else. It isn't unusual for this to happen.

For charges such as contempt of court, things can move very quickly - the courts themselves can order the immediate arrest of individuals so they can be brought before the court to answer such charges.


----------



## cyril_smear (May 28, 2018)

MrSpikey said:


> For charges such as contempt of court, things can move very quickly - the courts themselves can order the immediate arrest of individuals so they can be brought before the court to answer such charges.



That clears things up a bit. However, surely there would need to be an admission or a conviction i.e evidence submitted etc. 

Couldn't have happened to a more deserving person obviously. It just doesn't sit right with me how fast this sentence was handed down. I notice that the 13 month(half served in jail) would coincide with the expected end of the third and final in a series of related grooming and trafficking trials(starting in September and lasting for 6 weeks).

All these men on trial have had there pictures plastered all over the internet and a riot nearly errupted outside Leeds crown court earlier this year at the first of the three related trials with no arrests.


----------



## Stay Beautiful (May 28, 2018)

Mooney said:


> My gripe, and I speak on behalf of seven men called George and five women called Victoiria, my gripe is quite simple. My gripe is that we were never asked



Yes, it was terrible how all those general elections weren't held between 1950 and today...


----------



## Stay Beautiful (May 28, 2018)

Where to begin with the state of this...


----------



## sonicdancer (May 28, 2018)

How on earth can so many obviously intelligent posters on this TR arrest and sentence be so massively missing the point with their snide little comments clearly not see the bigger picture ?? 

Putting the arrest and sentence aside for one minute , they haven't obviously read TR's two books "Enemy of the State" and "Why Muslims Kill For Islam" 

Because if they had they would realise and identify that this is just the latest part of a quisling deep state led strategy to Islamify the UK. 

By silencing and jailing TR and then letting the peodophiles walk free or with very light sentences they have incited the population, there is not much needed now for the tinderbox to burn, a big demonstration in London or simultaneous worldwide demonstrations to free Tommy will set it off and create serious public disorder, disaffection with the BREXIT process will add to the mayhem, and I will be right at the front.

We are all Tommy, we are all EDL , all around you.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2018)

no thanks


----------



## Stay Beautiful (May 28, 2018)

sonicdancer said:


> How on earth can so many obviously intelligent posters on this TR arrest and sentence be so massively missing the point with their snide little comments clearly not see the bigger picture ??
> 
> Putting the arrest and sentence aside for one minute , they haven't obviously read TR's two books "Enemy of the State" and "Why Muslims Kill For Islam"
> 
> ...



Fuck off


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 28, 2018)

He was old school too. Bizarre.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 28, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He was old school too. Bizarre.



Nowt bizarre about it. A racist is a racist.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 28, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Nowt bizarre about it. A racist is a racist.



I met him back in the day under the arches. He seemed sound. That’s 16 odd years ago though.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 28, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I met him back in the day under the arches. He seemed sound. That’s 16 odd years ago though.



Just trying to think who it was  Either way, fuck him.​


----------



## ddraig (May 28, 2018)

thought they were sound too!
sad as fuck


----------



## agricola (May 29, 2018)

I love how the far right can go around discussing Quislings though.


----------



## albionism (May 29, 2018)

From the judge... "In short, Mr. Yaxley-Lennon, turn up at another court, refer to people as
"Muslim paedophiles, Muslim rapists" & so on & so forth while trials are ongoing & before
there has been a finding by a jury that that is what they are, and you will find yourself inside."
He knew full well what he was doing. He loves a bit of martyrdom.


----------



## Almor (May 29, 2018)

albionism said:


> From the judge... "In short, Mr. Yaxley-Lennon, turn up at another court, refer to people as
> "Muslim paedophiles, Muslim rapists" & so on & so forth while trials are ongoing & before
> there has been a finding by a jury that that is what they are, and you will find yourself inside."
> He knew full well what he was doing. He loves a bit of martyrdom.


 
Where did you get this from? My ukip uncle's mates are claiming on Facebook that the trial was over, apart from sentencing, and that there's a government reporting ban, leaving it to plucky Americans and Australians to inform us of poor Tommy's oppression [sigh]


----------



## albionism (May 29, 2018)

Almor said:


> Where did you get this from? My ukip uncle's mates are claiming on Facebook that the trial was over, apart from sentencing, and that there's a government reporting ban, leaving it to plucky Americans and Australians to inform us of poor Tommy's oppression [sigh]


It's what was said to Yaxley by a previous judge, reguarding
him rocking up at court and making a cunt out of himself and
potentially jeopardizing previous trials.He was warned not to do it
again, so he did it again. Man goes to prison after being told
"break the law again and you'll go to prison"!


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 29, 2018)

sonicdancer said:


> We are all Tommy, we are all EDL , all around you.



No _we_ fucking ain't!


----------



## sim667 (May 29, 2018)

Almor said:


> Where did you get this from? My ukip uncle's mates are claiming on Facebook that the trial was over, apart from sentencing, and that there's a government reporting ban, leaving it to plucky Americans and Australians to inform us of poor Tommy's oppression [sigh]


Zelo Street: Tommy Robinson And Reporting Restrictions


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 29, 2018)

Looks like the Indie has challenged the reporting ban:
Tommy Robinson jailed after breaking contempt of court laws


----------



## teqniq (May 29, 2018)

why would there be a reporting ban in the first place?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 29, 2018)

teqniq said:


> why would there be a reporting ban in the first place?



People are not allowed to report on a trial that is still in progress. My understanding is that the Judge extended the reporting ban to TR's related contempt of court issue too. I expect we will get confirmation of that when the Indie updates their story some more.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 29, 2018)

Also Tommy's supporters whining on twitter about "the trial was over apart from the sentencing" has nearly given me tinnitus.

It's the new "Islam isn't a race so how can I be racist, eh eh eh eh? How can I be racist if Islam isn't a race? Eh?"


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 29, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Looks like the Indie has challenged the reporting ban:
> Tommy Robinson jailed after breaking contempt of court laws





> He admitted committing contempt of court by publishing information that could prejudice an ongoing trial.



ooops.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 29, 2018)

A bit more here: Tommy Robinson jailed for Facebook Live outside Leeds Crown Court

This link says he plead guilty. I wonder if some of the nonsense of the weekend could have been avoided if that had been made clearer at the time?


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

free the luton 1


----------



## Fedayn (May 29, 2018)

He pled guilty.....


----------



## Ranbay (May 29, 2018)

pled guilty and was using the duty solicitor his defense cost = zero


----------



## Calamity1971 (May 29, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Northeast Infidels/edl manage 25-30 in Boro:
> Far-right "embarrassed" by turnout at Middlesbrough march


Infidels heading to Chester-le-street on June 16th. Talking to a lovely woman at the stand up to racism stall today. Hoping for another embarrassing turnout. Pubs trying to open early! Great idea


----------



## cyril_smear (May 29, 2018)

Fedayn said:


> He pled guilty.....



What a moron through and through. 

He could've been walking the streets now trying to put together a decent defence.


----------



## Nigel (May 30, 2018)

Calamity1971 said:


> Infidels heading to Chester-le-street on June 16th. Talking to a lovely woman at the stand up to racism stall today. Hoping for another embarrassing turnout. Pubs trying to open early! Great idea
> View attachment 136718


SUTR/UAF(SWP FRONTS) Organising events and demos hundreds of yards, if not miles away from any far right opposition !


----------



## Calamity1971 (May 30, 2018)

Nigel said:


> SUTR/UAF(SWP FRONTS) Organising events and demos hundreds of yards, if not miles away from any far right opposition !


The baai and northeast infidels have organised the march through chester-le-street. So sutr will be fairly close to the far right or am I missing something?


----------



## Nigel (May 30, 2018)

Calamity1971 said:


> The baai and northeast infidels have organised the march through chester-le-street. So sutr will be fairly close to the far right or am I missing something?


Previous Experience !
A good example would be yesterday; called demonstration in East Oxford after racist attack on Chabad Jews & Jewish Centre, but called it off (didn't turn up) because it was raining & they couldn't sell 'Social Worker'; leaving distressed students & perplexed lefties standing around in the rain !


----------



## Calamity1971 (May 30, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Previous Experience !
> A good example would be yesterday; called demonstration in East Oxford after racist attack on Chabad Jews & Jewish Centre, but called it off (didn't turn up) because it was raining & they couldn't sell 'Social Worker'; leaving distressed students & perplexed lefties standing around in the rain !


Ah okay. I will attend and see what the crack is. They mentioned 150 who signed up yesterday to the cause . Will report back.


----------



## ddraig (May 30, 2018)

they do it all the time! all the time
even with the numbers they stay out of the way shouting slogans, waving branded placards and selling papers as Nigel says, that's their MO and doesn't change


----------



## Yossarian (May 30, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I met him back in the day under the arches. He seemed sound. That’s 16 odd years ago though.



They must have been odd years.


----------



## Red Sky (May 31, 2018)

Nigel said:


> SUTR/UAF(SWP FRONTS) Organising events and demos hundreds of yards, if not miles away from any far right opposition !



Nobody else organising anything else at all.


----------



## Ranbay (May 31, 2018)




----------



## Anju (May 31, 2018)

Sad to see someone in Deptford wants to free TR.

Nice to see someone dispute it.

Sad to see the out of date EDL reference.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 15, 2018)

Counter Demonstration 14th July 2018 !
How do people feel about the way independent Anti Fascist/AFN demonstration went, particularly during the end when SUTR 'bandwagon' (literally) was given permission to usurp, promote and basically attempt to maintain vanguard and leadership of march to Victoria Station !

Was it a good idea to open up organising to other groups ?
Are their lessons to be learned from this, in my opinion aberration at best when dealing with opportunist sects and their front organisations, particularly SWP ! Organisers & stewards of anti fascist mobilisation must be pretty naive, if not easily manipulated not to think that they wouldn't pull such a stunt as they did !

If we, militant and independent anti fascists are now reliant and making SUTR/UAF figureheads of movement; what is the point of us existing as independent organisations ?


----------



## The Flying Pig (Jul 15, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Counter Demonstration 14th July 2018 !
> How do people feel about the way independent Anti Fascist/AFN demonstration went, particularly during the end when SUTR 'bandwagon' (literally) was given permission to usurp, promote and basically attempt to maintain vanguard and leadership of march to Victoria Station !
> 
> Was it a good idea to open up organising to other groups ?
> ...


We should be wise enough by now to know how these demos work. There are many people who want to demonstrate but certainly are not up for physical confrontation and I fully understand that. The right action for them is to leave an area where there is the threat of physical attack, for others who are not prepared to yield then you stay in the area. We are not all macho and physically or mentally strong enough to put ourselves at physical risk.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 15, 2018)

Your posting style has changed. Is it a shared account?


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Counter Demonstration 14th July 2018 !
> How do people feel about the way independent Anti Fascist/AFN demonstration went, particularly during the end when SUTR 'bandwagon' (literally) was given permission to usurp, promote and basically attempt to maintain vanguard and leadership of march to Victoria Station !
> 
> Was it a good idea to open up organising to other groups ?
> ...



T


Magnus McGinty said:


> Your posting style has changed. Is it a shared account?



Sobered up.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 15, 2018)

The Flying Pig said:


> We should be wise enough by now to know how these demos work. There are many people who want to demonstrate but certainly are not up for physical confrontation and I fully understand that. The right action for them is to leave an area where there is the threat of physical attack, for others who are not prepared to yield then you stay in the area. We are not all macho and physically or mentally strong enough to put ourselves at physical risk.


It's not a case of being 'Macho'; I presumed, as a general rule adopting the tactic of mass direct action partly would be to counter that culture and that there a plenty of roles just as important, if not more that people can play in anti fascist movement that do not involve confrontation, if they choose not to ! Being manipulated as was done last Saturday and negotiating to the level of subservience was counter productive at best !


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 16, 2018)

My understanding was that the demo was not called on the premise of mass confrontation, but as the start of the process of rebuilding active anti-fascism in the unions and working class generally. This was a sensible approach given the massive imbalance of forces on previous major demonstrations (<50:1) and uncertainty about numbers on the day.

On the whole it was successful - there were a lot of union members and banners there. Even the attack on Hedley and co. will work to our (& his) advantage in pushing for greater involvement in the future.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 17, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I met him back in the day under the arches. He seemed sound. That’s 16 odd years ago though.


Before a decade of ‘not holidaying, travelling’ through poorer countries bankrolled by rental income, though.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jul 17, 2018)

Ranbay said:


>




That could be straight from the imagination of Aramdo Iannucci .
Cackle.

Fuck me people are stupid and there is no hope ... Push the FuckinG Button! !!!


----------



## Nigel (Aug 20, 2018)

Any news on alleged stabbing of D F L A supporters in M anchest er & counter demo or attempts at retaliation ?


----------



## Nigel (Aug 20, 2018)

E D L In Worcester 1st September 2018


----------



## Patteran (Aug 21, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Any news on alleged stabbing of D F L A supporters in M anchest er & counter demo or attempts at retaliation ?



The three fellas that got stabbed in Piccadilly Gardens? Wasn't political (in a narrow sense). Bucket hats vs lumpen teens in a late night clash, if we're referring to the same incident.


----------



## Nigel (Aug 23, 2018)

From Facebook !


Stabbing of D F L A supporters Manchester ! Muh ammad H arun Has hashin Hu sayn shared a post. 18 August at 21:35 · Salaam brothers, 3 main members of an is lamophobic group called the D F L A have been stabbed in Manchester last night. Tomorrow on Sunday 19th August the D F L A will attack Did sbury P ark M asjid some time between 12-2pm. When our own homes are attacked why is it we go crazy then but not when Allah's house is attacked? Brothers are requested to surround the Ma sjid at 11.30am onwards 2 71 B urton R oad M  20 2WA Please share to make others aware even if you cant make it!!

Mu slim De fence Le ague M D L 17 hrs · There were a few M D L supporters outside Did sbury Ma sjid in Manchester today after D F L A thugs planned to attack it. 5 juiced up DF LA thugs came but legged it when they saw just 1 anti-fascist. After they sped off in their car M D L and anti-fascists went to all the near by pubs looking for them. Most of you probably know M D L is run by Sun nis that follow Tari qah and Tas awwuf etc. as you probably see us sharing posters for Mi lad programmes and U rs celebrations of Aw liyas. Did sbury Park Mas jid are sal afi but if we sit by thinking 'it is only a sa lafi Mas jid we aren't going' the isla mo phobes don't know that. They will just think they attacked one Mas jid so they can attack another. Today it will be a sa lafi Mas jid and who knows next time it might be a Suf i Mas jid. It is for this reason the M D L showed a small presence.


----------



## Patteran (Aug 23, 2018)

There's no suggestion from any source that the stabbings in town were politically-motivated. Piccadilly Gardens is a street-dealing hotspot, predominantly shitbags selling spice to the homeless. The three teens arrested were carrying knives & drugs. DFLA mouthpieces publicly & repeatedly denied any involvement with the mosque protest. 

I'm open to being wrong here. But it still seems most likely that three grown men, maybe out-of-towners full of ale, have been caught out by the blade-wielding brutality of skinny inner-city teenagers. Perhaps the victims were right wingers - plenty are these days - but I don't think it's helpful to second-guess motivations or frame the incident like this if personal politics weren't relevant.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 23, 2018)

Patteran said:


> There's no suggestion from any source that the stabbings in town were politically-motivated. Piccadilly Gardens is a street-dealing hotspot, predominantly shitbags selling spice to the homeless. The three teens arrested were carrying knives & drugs. DFLA mouthpieces publicly & repeatedly denied any involvement with the mosque protest.
> 
> I'm open to being wrong here. But it still seems most likely that three grown men, maybe out-of-towners full of ale, have been caught out by the blade-wielding brutality of skinny inner-city teenagers. Perhaps the victims were right wingers - plenty are these days - but I don't think it's helpful to second-guess motivations or frame the incident like this if personal politics weren't relevant.



Yup, heap of shite. Could have been anyone passing through at that same time on the same night. None of the three that got stabbed are in the DFLA as far as I'm aware.


----------



## imposs1904 (Aug 23, 2018)

Ranbay said:


>




Bloke's a comedian  . . .  and a cunt.


----------



## Nigel (Aug 24, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Yup, heap of shite. Could have been anyone passing through at that same time on the same night. None of the three that got stabbed are in the DFLA as far as I'm aware.


Do you know if their are any escalations after these stabbings ?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 24, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Do you know if their are any escalations after these stabbings ?


By who?


----------



## Patteran (Aug 24, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> By who?



Liam Gallagher dads are demanding Stone Island produce stab-proof gilets, & the spicemongers are patrolling Piccadilly Gardens in technicals.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 24, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Yup, heap of shite. Could have been anyone passing through at that same time on the same night. None of the three that got stabbed are in the DFLA as far as I'm aware.


not yet anyway


----------



## rekil (Aug 26, 2018)

The Spicemonger Girls would be a good name for a band.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 27, 2018)

copliker said:


> The Spicemonger Girls would be a good name for a band.


Spicemonger Jerry


----------



## Nigel (Sep 1, 2018)

Any news from Wor cester ?


----------



## M Testa (Sep 1, 2018)

antifascists outnumber EDL 5-1/. pre-demo arrests for 2 EDL speakers (1 well known balloon-heid), 4 arrests on the demo. they met up at the pub 11am. 2nd march in a mpnth or so. Worcs told em to nick off! more to come.
oh, and the EDL 'book burning' division were all armed with poundland lighters!  that'll show them leftisteys.
and before anyone does it: EDL go from bad to Worcester!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Any news from Wor cester ?


Can't you just go on twitter like all the anti-fash experts?


----------



## M Testa (Sep 1, 2018)

says the self-appointed guardian of anti-fascism.


----------



## Nigel (Sep 1, 2018)

I was only asking 
Besides this is E DL Watch thread & it was the e dl mobilising in Worcester !


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Can't you just go on twitter like all the anti-fash experts?



Miserable cunt.


----------



## Nigel (Sep 2, 2018)

M Testa said:


> antifascists outnumber EDL 5-1/. pre-demo arrests for 2 EDL speakers (1 well known balloon-heid), 4 arrests on the demo. they met up at the pub 11am. 2nd march in a mpnth or so. Worcs told em to nick off! more to come.
> oh, and the EDL 'book burning' division were all armed with poundland lighters!  that'll show them leftisteys.
> and before anyone does it: EDL go from bad to Worcester!


Apparently, from what I've heard there were around 5/600 0n TUC demo !
E DL demonstration had around 100.
E DL marched through town centre under heavy police cordon !
Around 20-30 Anti Fascists made it to town centre in an attempt to confront E DL however were unable to directly !

S Utr video of march !


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2018)

From what i hear = stuff posted on twitter. And here it is.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 2, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Miserable cunt.


You on Twitter?


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> You on Twitter?



No.


----------



## Nigel (Sep 2, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> From what i hear = stuff posted on twitter. And here it is.


No it wasn't as it goes !


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 2, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> From what i hear = stuff posted on twitter.


We all have our own particular idiomatic crosses to bear 

Search Results for Query: "my mate" | urban75 forums


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 2, 2018)

DaveCinzano said:


> We all have our own particular idiomatic crosses to bear
> 
> Search Results for Query: "my mate" | urban75 forums


Worst hypocrisy hunt ever.


----------



## paolo (Oct 10, 2018)

It almost deserves a thread of it’s own.

Twat Watch.

UK army investigates after Tommy Robinson poses with soldiers


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 10, 2018)

Saw they pic and they looked like Cadets to me... maybe


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 10, 2018)




----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 11, 2018)

Soldier in Tommy Robinson video to be discharged from army

“English Defence League founder, who met the trainees at Watford Gap motorway services, wrote in an accompanying post: "A moment like this makes it all worth while. Today I met real British heroes."

16 year old wet behind the ear trainees are not heroes Tomeh!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 11, 2018)

They feed off this victimhood. Although I’ll be surprised if the army get criticised.


----------



## M Testa (Oct 11, 2018)

2 photos going round, 1 with the young shavers, another with tommy and kousin-kkkev posing with the Royal Army & Navy Surplus division (walking boot squad).


----------



## teqniq (Oct 20, 2018)




----------



## 19force8 (Oct 20, 2018)

EDL Infiltrate Manchester Police Demonstration?


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 21, 2018)

I really hope there was a chorus of ‘you must have come in a taxi’ directed at them, total open goal for that.


----------



## albionism (Oct 21, 2018)

There are down to the very last dregs. And they're 
not racist, honestly they're not.


----------



## heebyjeeby (Oct 29, 2018)

So they are a massive threat to the country and we must all run around like headless chickens to destroy them and they are also pathetic and incapable of anything.

righto


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 29, 2018)

heebyjeeby said:


> So they are a massive threat to the country and we must all run around like headless chickens to destroy them and they are also pathetic and incapable of anything.
> 
> righto


From the sounds of things you'd be right at home running round like a headless chicken


----------



## Ranbay (Oct 29, 2018)

heebyjeeby said:


> So they are a massive threat to the country and we must all run around like headless chickens to destroy them and they are also pathetic and incapable of anything.
> 
> righto



They have less numbers now, that's funny.
When they had a lot more numbers it wasn't as funny, but still funny.


----------



## heebyjeeby (Oct 29, 2018)

Ranbay said:


> They have less numbers now, that's funny.
> When they had a lot more numbers it wasn't as funny, but still funny.



They are pathetic.


----------



## heebyjeeby (Oct 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> From the sounds of things you'd be right at home running round like a headless chicken



Ill bet you can't even tidy your own bedroom in your parent's house.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 29, 2018)

heebyjeeby said:


> Ill bet you can't even tidy your own bedroom in your parent's house.


1) I no longer live, and have not for many years lived, with my parents
2) and if I did it would not be my parent's house but my parents' house, there being more than one of them


----------



## heebyjeeby (Oct 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> 1) I no longer live, and have not for many years lived, with my parents
> 2) and if I did it would not be my parent's house but my parents' house, there being more than one of them


but can you keep your bedroom tidy? Ill assume that's a no.


----------



## paolo (Dec 9, 2018)

I had a look just now.

AF were marched off “nicely” down Whitehall back to the embankment via Trafalgar Square.

I’m having a remarkably calm pint. A copper was having a piss in the bogs. I knew I wasn’t going to get an inside line, so I went with “much trouble?”

“I’ve had worse”

As greying as I am, the black hoody and backpack caught his eye for a moment.

Whitehall is empty, but there’s noise down at parliament. I have a long lens and want people to see what this pathetic mob is.

They’re not Brexit.

They’re cunts. Not a word I use lightly.


----------



## M Testa (Dec 9, 2018)

No show in Liverpool
‘Embarrassing’ no-show from suspected far-right marchers
(prepare for made up story claiming it was a distraction to stop scousers going down to london - they shit it!). 
handful of stella clutching trampy wank-sticks tried to have a go at massive anti-fascist demo: 
Thousands protest against Tommy Robinson Brexit march amid Tory infighting - Politics live

sorry about crap links. been putting the 'Festivus' pole up all day.


----------



## Riklet (Dec 10, 2018)

So they're losing the street action battles but winning the war politically.

What do we think these types might try in 2019 and how can "the left" tackle what theyre feeding off before they do?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 5, 2019)

dunno where else to put this, no idea who did it but far right is a good guess 

Karl Marx memorial in Highgate vandalised in ‘targeted attack’


----------



## M Testa (Feb 5, 2019)

fucken hell, it's a short step to burning books after this. and also, attacking a statue? it's not exactly impressive is it?


----------



## Yossarian (Feb 6, 2019)

Would have been hilarious if the head had toppled forward during the attack, crushing the vandal...


----------



## JimW (Feb 6, 2019)

Or risen Zardoz style to chase them down.


----------



## Poi E (Feb 6, 2019)

No-one can say Connery is their favourite Bond after seeing Zardoz.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 12, 2019)

Can anyone remember a while back about tommy robinsons bodyguard dumping him in the shit and claiming he was involved in abusing a 15 year old after a demo? All the info seems to have disappeared offline, anyone know where I can find it?

Ignore: found it.


----------



## Nigel (Mar 12, 2019)

...


----------



## albionism (Apr 2, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Can anyone remember a while back about tommy robinsons bodyguard dumping him in the shit and claiming he was involved in abusing a 15 year old after a demo? All the info seems to have disappeared offline, anyone know where I can find it?
> 
> Ignore: found it.


Can you share it?


----------



## sim667 (Apr 2, 2019)

albionism said:


> Can you share it?


Another paedo patriot



> It could be said that paedophilia is an EDL tradition, with former leader Tommy Robinson leading by example. As I’ve mentioned before on numerous occasions, Tommy Robinson’s ex-bodyguard defected to the left through close friends of mine and he told them many personal things about Tommy. One of the things he said was that Tommy Robinson and some friends of his got a 15 year old girl from Dunstable, coked up and drunk after an EDL demo. Tommy and his friends then gang banged the poor girl in a drink and cocaine fuelled session of child rape. Apparently the poor girl was in a terrible state when the ex-bodyguard drove her home.



I know its hearsay, but still..... if true and it ever came to light it would be damning.


----------



## splonkydoo (Apr 2, 2019)

NA related, but he had been in the BNP and linked with the EDL previously.

'
*Self-Confessed Neo-Nazi Jack Renshaw Is A Convicted Paedophile, It Is Revealed'*

HuffPost is now part of Oath


----------



## M Testa (Apr 4, 2019)

Malatesta blog has a piece on Renshaw as well as the updated far right serious sex offenders - over 30 now. been told not to post the link.


----------



## M Testa (Jun 18, 2019)

wrong thread


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 10, 2019)

Not fully EDL but patriotic billy charlton is in court atm

Sunderland protester Billy Charlton goes on trial accused of stirring up racial hatred


Trial ongoing obvs so you know thre drill


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2019)

Seen that guy who was trying to open a DFLA pub has had a license refused.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2019)

not-bono-ever said:


> Not fully EDL but patriotic billy charlton is in court atm
> 
> Sunderland protester Billy Charlton goes on trial accused of stirring up racial hatred
> 
> ...


a new black cap has been delivered to newcastle crown court


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 10, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Seen that guy who was trying to open a DFLA pub has had a license refused.


I think it was the company that owned the pub that refused him


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 27, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> a new black cap has been delivered to newcastle crown court


  Found guilty .21 months- 6 inside, the rest on a tag.


----------



## cantsin (Sep 28, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Seen that guy who was trying to open a DFLA pub has had a license refused.



was probably for the best


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2019)

Danny Tommo has released an announcement that 7, or 5 people (he doesn't know exactly how many, but it was definitely 7 or 5), went into a pub last night (he doesn't know which pub either), in Stevenage, and tried to stab him, but instantly gave up when he flipped a table and then ran from the pub (or hid in the back of the pub, again..... he can't remember). He's reported it to the police and its all the fault of the "MSM".


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 17, 2022)

Luther Blissett said:


> *The Night of the Mystery Knives*
> First comes a picture of an air ambulance from here: ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs, uploaded around 1 day and 2 hours ago
> 
> Then comes a report in blottr, last updated 19:06 http://www.blottr.com/breaking-news/edl-clash-locals-edgware-road, presumably with the picture of the air ambulance added at 19:06.
> ...


FYI



> ...One piece of information emerged from the hostages they spoke to, which was “fairly unremarkable” to the hostage but proved very significant to police.
> 
> It was the recollection of a conversation where one of the captors mentioned that he had been arrested at an English Defence League march in London.
> 
> ...











						Hostages gave vital help to identify British IS gang members in Syria
					

Advanced analysis of fragments of information enabled Scotland Yard to identify three of jihadis who held and tortured captives




					www.theguardian.com


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## Ranbay (Jan 4, 2023)

So what Tommy been doing then?

he's been involved in a fake groom gang case ( he was hyping up this girls stories to get money for protection for her and her family last year or so)  --- Woman guilty of making false grooming gang rape claims 
he's been defending andrew Tate daily since he got nicked   - Nazi Tommy Robinson backs Andrew Tate
and he did a 5k run the other day --- don't have a link just saw it on Telegram


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