# How shit is Game of Thrones?



## rubbershoes (Feb 12, 2017)

Some people talk about GoT as though it was the best series ever. OK there's lots of battles and intrigue, and the plot rattles along. And lots of nudity and shagging..

But it's shit really isn't it?  It's entertaining enough but in no way great television.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 12, 2017)




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## joustmaster (Feb 12, 2017)

Its no Russ Abbott's Saturday Madhouse.


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## Ranbay (Feb 12, 2017)

Tit's and Dragons we call it.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

it slyly got people into swords and sorcery  but theres some good writing and the set pieces are very good indeed. The battle of the bastards for instance is a breathtaking piece of battle done on screen. Coherent, brutal and terrifying.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 12, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> OK there's lots of battles and intrigue, and the plot rattles along. And lots of nudity and shagging..


You're not doing a great job with this counter-argument thing here.


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## Sea Star (Feb 12, 2017)

I'm watching it now. It's alright. Not brilliant. But I'm enjoying it as a mindless piece of entertainment.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 12, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You're not doing a great job with this counter-argument thing here.


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## rubbershoes (Feb 12, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You're not doing a great job with this counter-argument thing here.



No you just want Babestation in leather armour. Actually that does sound good


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## stavros (Feb 12, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> Some people talk about GoT as though it was the best series ever.



TV channels' PR machines seem to do that on a rolling basis, for whichever is the newest trendy American import; The Sopranos, Mad Men, The Wire, Boardwalk Empire, Breaking Bad, and now Game of Thrones.


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## T & P (Feb 12, 2017)

It's pretty good. I have a built-in reluctantly to watch shows that are part of Sky's top billing portfolio due to my hatred of Murdoch, but while in the Middle East I bought the entire series from a bootleg DVD shop, and really liked it. Some of the unpleasantness was a bit too much, but overall very enjoyable.

Character development is great, for me a vitally important vector. Also like the fact that apart from the truly evil characters, you develop a liking for just about everyone else, regardless of how fucked up they are.

Wouldn't say the greatest TV shop ever, and some of the collective obsession about it makes me want to dislike it. But then i reckon that's a common enough reaction. I also felt similar antipathy for other shows the whole world seemed to be having a group wank over.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 12, 2017)

It's a bit Radio 4 this thread tbh.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

Poll!


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

stavros said:


> TV channels' PR machines seem to do that on a rolling basis, for whichever is the newest trendy American import; The Sopranos, Mad Men, The Wire, Boardwalk Empire, Breaking Bad, and now Game of Thrones.


which of these is the one that broke out of a genre ghetto to entrance all the people who liked the other ones you mentioned? 

Early GoT tv sucked people in precisely because it was politicking and games of. By the time fairy fireballs and wargs and alll that come in its too late. They are hooked. And now want to know more


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## ruffneck23 (Feb 12, 2017)

I held off and refused to watch the first 2 seasons but after a mate at work and some family members told me I should give it a go , I buckled and have been pleasantly surprised , it's certainly better than a lot of crap out there even if it's not Shakespeare's


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> which of these is the one that broke out of a genre ghetto to entrance all the people who liked the other ones you mentioned?


The Sopranos.


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## rubbershoes (Feb 12, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's a bit Radio 4 this thread tbh.



Thank you


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## stavros (Feb 12, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> The Sopranos.



I could be wrong, but wasn't it The Sopranos which laid the groundwork for HBO becoming the de facto leader in anglophonic TV drama? I think before that it was mainly for sports.


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## ferrelhadley (Feb 12, 2017)

It tweaks my geek. 

Its pretty much "if HBO were to reboot Lord of the Rings". I am happy watching it. If others are not there are a myriad other things on the box for them.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> The Sopranos.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


>


But it wasn't just watched by gangster genre fans: it had a much wider audience.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 12, 2017)

I watched the first series of GoT and never went back. Too much I didn't like about it that outweighed what I did like about it. I'll probably read the books at some point though.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> But it wasn't just watched by gangster genre fans: it had a much wider audience.


and now GoT is not watched only by fantasy genre fans, it has a much wider audience.


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 12, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> No you just want Babestation in leather armour



Have you ever thought about a career in television production?


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> and now GoT is not watched only by fantasy genre fans, it has a much wider audience.


Doubt it.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Doubt it.


well thats up to you thomas, but it is true. People who wouldn't touch fantasy with a bargepole have got into it. 

Sopranos came off the back of a rich and varied gangster film tradition. One enjoyed by all. Fntasy had been in something of a backwater since friggin conan


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> well thats up to you thomas, but it is true. People who wouldn't touch fantasy with a bargepole have got into it.
> 
> Sopranos came off the back of a rich and varied gangster film tradition. One enjoyed by all. Fntasy had been in something of a backwater since friggin conan


It's every blockbuster movie for the last decade and a half! Every time a film comes out it's some super hero you've never heard of.


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## The39thStep (Feb 12, 2017)

My son went on about it for two years or so. He bought me series one. It stayed in the draw. Couldn't think of anything worse than some pre medieval fantasy bollocks. My youngest daughter and her boyfriend were hooked on it and kept trying to have conversations with me about it .I fawned vague interest and said I would watch at some point. They bought me a boxset. It stated in the drawer. Then a year or so later we had to say in a house with only Portuguese freeview , four channels and one of those is the Parliamentary one. So the missus said lets watch one episode. We watched the first four series in a month.


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## Ax^ (Feb 12, 2017)




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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> It's every blockbuster movie for the last decade and a half! Every time a film comes out it's some super hero you've never heard of.


the genre revival came about because of LOTR films and Harry Potter. Mob films however, never died and are still well liked if they are good. But before that, well. And supehero/comic book films are a slightly different genre. You can blame those on Iron Man 1 being such a hit imo.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

Ax^ said:


>


this neatly shows the differences


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the genre revival came about because of LOTR films and Harry Potter. Mob films however, never died and are still well liked if they are good. But before that, well. And supehero/comic book films are a slightly different genre. You can blame those on Iron Man 1 being such a hit imo.


Anyway, I was hoping for a poll so I could gauge how shit Game of Thrones is. Thread fail.


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## Ax^ (Feb 12, 2017)

the people who tend to tell you that Got is a good television series is the same sort of people who rave on about breaking bag..


fell for it last time 3 season's of pure Bullshit to even get going..

i tend not to trust them about Got's


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

Ax^ said:


> the people who tend to tell you that Got is a good television series is the same sort of people who rave on about breaking bag..
> 
> 
> fell for it last time 3 season's of pure Bullshit to even get going..
> ...


You should have seen the thread where people ganged up on me to keep watching the Wire. "Episode two is where it gets started". "It doesn't get going until episode four". "You have to watch episode seven to get into it".

Before long people were saying it was season four before it took off.

It was never going to get going.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

Ax^ said:


> the people who tend to tell you that Got is a good television series is the same sort of people who rave on about breaking bag..
> 
> 
> fell for it last time 3 season's of pure Bullshit to even get going..
> ...


breaking bad is fun right up till the point where walter white crosses a line from good man doing bad out of neccisity to an out and out arsehole. The moral ambiguity becomes active sin. And I cannot like him after that.


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 12, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I watched the first series of GoT and never went back. Too much I didn't like about it that outweighed what I did like about it. I'll probably read the books at some point though.



I didn't really start to love the show till season 3.  Started the 1st book and didn't like it all - it's just one of those things that works better on screen.  Heavy on action and dialogue - no poetry in the writing or getting into the heads of the characters.


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## Ax^ (Feb 12, 2017)

i of like him better if midway thru the first season he went postal and shot every member of his family


would of been a nice way to finish off season one


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> You should have seen the thread where people ganged up on me to keep watching the Wire. "Episode two is where it gets started". "It doesn't get going until episode four". "You have to watch episode seven to get into it".
> 
> Before long people were saying it was season four before it took off.
> 
> It was never going to get going.


it was more than one thread and you are still wrong but thats okay, I understand how octavians are now.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 12, 2017)

Ax^ said:


> the people who tend to tell you that Got is a good television series is the same sort of people who rave on about breaking bag..


They both live in the past?


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## Ax^ (Feb 12, 2017)

**bad

btw


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I didn't really start to love the show till season 3.  Started the 1st book and didn't like it all - it's just one of those things that works better on screen.  Heavy on action and dialogue - no poetry in the writing or getting into the heads of the characters.


the written works are absolutely full of interior character monolouges- you understand the bind of duty and honour Davos Seaworth is in to Stannis much more readily becuase of that.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> breaking bad is fun right up till the point where walter white crosses a line from good man doing bad out of neccisity to an out and out arsehole. The moral ambiguity becomes active sin. And I cannot like him after that.


I enjoyed Breaking Bad, but I'm never going to rewatch it. It's no Sopranos (which I've watched several times).

BB should never have made that last season. It went full A Team.


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## Ax^ (Feb 12, 2017)

the Game of Thrones books


like Gormenghast but with more death and boning


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> It's no Sopranos


Analyze This (1999) - IMDb

thats sopranos that is, only minus the billy cystal


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## Orang Utan (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> breaking bad is fun right up till the point where walter white crosses a line from good man doing bad out of neccisity to an out and out arsehole. The moral ambiguity becomes active sin. And I cannot like him after that.


But that happens in the first episode


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## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Analyze This (1999) - IMDb
> 
> thats sopranos that is, only minus the billy cystal


That came out after the first series of the Sopranos, I think.

(Never watched it - it has Billy Crystal).


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> But that happens in the first episode


nope. That was still terrible neccesity. Watching Jessie's goth GF choke on her own vomit was where he crossed the line for me.


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 12, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> ...It stayed in the *drawer*... I *feigned *vague interest...we had to *stay *in a house with only Portuguese freeview...



HTH 



The39thStep said:


> So the missus said let's watch one episode. We watched the first four series in a month.



Basically, you're telling us never to offer you a cheeky rock?


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## Orang Utan (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> nope. That was still terrible neccesity. Watching Jessie's goth GF choke on her own vomit was where he crossed the line for me.


the whole point of the series is that he breaks bad from the outset


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 12, 2017)

Although GoT has undoubtedly gained a wide audience, I do think you need a penchant for fantasy to really like it. I enjoy it cos I do like a bit of that but I'm not as into it as some people. The intrigue in the first couple of seasons was great but the last one, maybe the last two, went somewhat downhill for me as it went more into full out fantasy. I'll still watch it cos the characters are just such great fun. I do love a good baddie and Tyrion and Ramsey Bolton have pushed all my baddie buttons.


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 12, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> BB should never have made that last season. It went full A Team.



Just as well you bodyswerved_ The Wire_ then


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I didn't really start to love the show till season 3.  Started the 1st book and didn't like it all - it's just one of those things that works better on screen.  Heavy on action and dialogue - no poetry in the writing or getting into the heads of the characters.



I refuse to sit through 3 seasons of something in case I might start liking it.


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 12, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I refuse to sit through 3 seasons of something in case I might start liking it.


Young people today, no stamina, tsk


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 12, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I refuse to sit through 3 seasons of something in case I might start liking it.


This is good thinking....and the reason I have given up on Gilmore Girls. Life is too short.


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> But that happens in the first episode



Bingo. And I never watched more than one episode as a result.

All I heard was "it's all about Walter's descent and fall" but he fell in the first episode and was unlikable, a total dick, and I had absolutely no reason to give a single solitary shit about his story.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 12, 2017)

I need to give Orange Is The New Black another go, watched about 5 episodes and then just drifted off. i didn't dislike it, but i felt no compulsion to see more of it


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> the whole point of the series is that he breaks bad from the outset


out of terrible neccisity yes. The good man goes to war, its an old enough one. But he didn't HAVE to watch Jessie's GF die and do nothing. That was the actions of a truly bad person, given its context. Walter White was not truly on the path to being heisenburg till then. Just imo of course but thats where he abandoned the last scrap of decencey and became an arsehole.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 12, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Bingo. And I never watched more than one episode as a result.
> 
> All I heard was "it's all about Walter's descent and fall" but he fell in the first episode and was unlikable, a total dick, and I had absolutely no reason to give a single solitary shit about his story.


i still loved it. people who do bad things are fascinating


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> this neatly shows the differences



That last series of _Little Britain_ really was flogging a maggot-ridden, stenchy dead horse


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## Vintage Paw (Feb 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> i still loved it. people who do bad things are fascinating



They can be. Walter White was not one of those people for me.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> out of terrible neccisity yes. The good man goes to war, its an old enough one. But he didn't HAVE to watch Jessie's GF die and do nothing. That was the actions of a truly bad person, given its context. Walter White was not truly on the path to being heisenburg till then. Just imo of course but thats where he abandoned the last scrap of decencey and became an arsehole.


he didn't have to make meth. what terrible necessity is this? the series makes clear that he didn't have to do it


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 12, 2017)

Mrs Miggins said:


> This is good thinking....and the reason I have given up on Gilmore Girls. Life is too short.



Some shows just take a while to get their hooks into you.  Breaking Bad, Mad Men and GoT I only liked _just enough_ to continue during their first one or two seasons, but I'm so glad I didn't give up on them.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I'd made it to the end of the first season of The Wire or Dexter.


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## Mrs Miggins (Feb 12, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Some shows just take a while to get their hooks into you.  Breaking Bad, Mad Men and GoT I only liked _just enough_ to continue during their first one or two seasons, but I'm so glad I didn't give up on them.


This is the thing though...I got to the point with Gilmour Girls that I didn't even like it just enough to carry on. It just became irritating.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> he didn't have to make meth. what terrible necessity is this? the series makes clear that he didn't have to do it


he was dying, working two jobs and due to clock out of this life before his next child was born, dealing with the needs of a disabled son. It was wrong but you could forgive him for it. What came later was not forgivable


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## Orang Utan (Feb 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> he was dying, working two jobs and due to clock out of this life before his next child was born, dealing with the needs of a disabled son. It was wrong but you could forgive him for it. What came later was not forgivable


he could have got his ex-business partner to pay for his treatment, remember? but he was too proud


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## Ax^ (Feb 12, 2017)

must admit i got bored of watching breaking bad

and stopped after the 3 season...


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 12, 2017)

Ax^ said:


> must admit i got bored of watching breaking bad
> 
> and stopped after the 3 season...



Seasons 3 and 4 of Breaking Bad are about as good as telly gets.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> he could have got his ex-business partner to pay for his treatment, remember? but he was too proud


yes. And stannis could have graciously given up his claim but these are men driven by insane pride. It doesn't make them evil to start with, but in the end it drives them to that. Burning his own duaghter alive was Stannis's 'no mate, thats enough' point for me. Its easy to say he could have humbled himself just as WW could have. But their pride while stupid and self defeating was not true badness, not yet. There must be a word to describe pride that leads one to a fall in your own nature- hubris is close but I don't think it quite covers it.

Stannis pride was in righteousness. WW's pride was driven by his (albeit patriarchal and foolish) sense of what it means to be the provider, the Man.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 13, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Just as well you bodyswerved_ The Wire_ then


Did it get _even more_ cliched,  stereotyped and ridiculous?  If it had had some charm, and/or interesting or 3 dimensional characters I might have kept going. But it was just so dull to go with the cliche. And the claims that it was "ground breaking" didn't do it any favours. It really wasn't.


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## snadge (Feb 13, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Did it get _even more_ cliched,  stereotyped and ridiculous?  If it had had some charm, and/or interesting or 3 dimensional characters I might have kept going. But it was just so dull to go with the cliche. And the claims that it was "ground breaking" didn't do it any favours. It really wasn't.



I watched 3 seasons of the wire and gave up, it was just so samey from episode to episode, there was nothing groundbreaking there.


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## Maharani (Feb 13, 2017)

I prefer Vikings any day of the week.


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## ElizabethofYork (Feb 13, 2017)

When does the next series of GOT start?


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## snadge (Feb 13, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> he didn't have to make meth. what terrible necessity is this? the series makes clear that he didn't have to do it



That is the point of the series though, otherwise it would be called eastenders or something and be just as soul destroyingly boring.


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## Reno (Feb 13, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> Some people talk about GoT as though it was the best series ever. OK there's lots of battles and intrigue, and the plot rattles along. And lots of nudity and shagging..
> 
> But it's shit really isn't it?  It's entertaining enough but in no way great television.


I think that's just snobbery because it is a genre rather than a drama show. It's up there with the best shows because when you look past the fantasy genre trappings, it succeeds as a great drama, with great characters and plotting. Once you look past the dragons and magic, it's a smart show about politics, religion and fucked up families. It is well written and acted and succeeds were many genre shows loose me.


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## kabbes (Feb 13, 2017)

Great characters engaging in great dialogue mean it is a joy to watch.  What more do you need to know?


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## wayward bob (Feb 13, 2017)

what i love about GOT is that they'll happily kill off main characters at any time, which keeps you on your toes plot-wise. i get pissed off with magical resurrections mind...


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## souljacker (Feb 13, 2017)

GoT is ok. The set piece battles are generally very well done but you have to sit through a lot of dull shite to get there. The dialogue is fucking awful and some of the characters are really annoying.

That said, it's quite watchable considering it's fantasy, which is usually utter shite.


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 13, 2017)

souljacker said:


> GoT is ok. The set piece battles are generally very well done but you have to sit through a lot of dull shite to get there. The dialogue is fucking awful and some of the characters are really annoying.
> 
> That said, it's quite watchable considering it's fantasy, which is usually utter shite.



Before I started liking it properly I described it as 'men with beards sitting about and talking', which did annoy some friends.


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## kabbes (Feb 13, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Before I started liking it properly I described it as 'men with beards sitting about and talking', which did annoy some friends.


I don't really get why it would annoy them.  My liking something is not dependent on what you think of it.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 13, 2017)

Heaven forbid people talking on tv


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## Pickman's model (Feb 13, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Before I started liking it properly I described it as 'men with beards sitting about and talking', which did annoy some friends.


yeh cos it's a crap description


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## Johnny Vodka (Feb 13, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh cos it's a crap description



I was being deliberately facetious, though the first couple of seasons are pretty light on action.


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## Reno (Feb 13, 2017)

souljacker said:


> GoT is ok. The set piece battles are generally very well done but you have to sit through a lot of dull shite to get there. The dialogue is fucking awful and some of the characters are really annoying.
> 
> That said, it's quite watchable considering it's fantasy, which is usually utter shite.


It's probably all the dull shite (the politics, the intrigues) I like best about the show and I don't see why you think the dialogue is awful. It's not Shakespeare,  but it's also not the ridiculous pseudo-Olde Worlde waffle of LOTR. The dialogue fits the characters.


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 13, 2017)

Maharani said:


> I prefer Vikings any day of the week.


But particularly on Thorsdays


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## Pickman's model (Feb 13, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> But particularly on Thorsdays


or wodensdays or tyr's days


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## Santino (Feb 13, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> But particularly on Thorsdays


What about Tyrsday, Wodensday or Frigday?


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## Pickman's model (Feb 13, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> or wodensdays or tyr's days





Santino said:


> What about Tyrsday, Wodensday or Frigday?


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## DaveCinzano (Feb 13, 2017)

Santino said:


> What about Tyrsday, Wodensday or Frigday?


Easy now Gråig Dyveig


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## Idris2002 (Feb 13, 2017)

souljacker said:


> GoT is ok. The set piece battles are generally very well done but you have to sit through a lot of dull shite to get there. The dialogue is fucking awful and some of the characters are really annoying.
> 
> That said, it's quite watchable considering it's fantasy, which is usually utter shite.


The characters  are annoying? Well, Sansa is considerable more annoying in the original books - but in the show she does come on and becomes a far stronger character.


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## Santino (Feb 13, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Easy now Gråig Dyveig


we were drinking blood by Wednesday
and on Thursday & Friday & Saturday
we killed on Sunday


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## Spymaster (Feb 13, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Anyway, I was hoping for a poll so I could gauge how shit Game of Thrones is. Thread fail.


It's massively shit. And I have tried to watch it. It's the kind of thing I might have enjoyed as a student whilst stoned.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 13, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> It's massively shit. And I have tried to watch it. It's the kind of thing I might have enjoyed as a student whilst stoned.


yeh. but you've the attention span of a gnat, pa.


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## souljacker (Feb 13, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> The characters  are annoying?



Yes. The big fella from the Wall, Sam? One of the dullest characters in anything ever. Even that young girl with the thin sword got boring after she split with the big fella.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2017)

this is what I'm doing to all the naysayers. I'm crushing your heads


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## rubbershoes (Feb 13, 2017)

Reno said:


> I think that's just snobbery because it is a genre rather than a drama show. It's up there with the best shows because when you look past the fantasy genre trappings, it succeeds as a great drama, with great characters and plotting. Once you look past the dragons and magic, it's a smart show about politics, religion and fucked up families. It is well written and acted and succeeds were many genre shows loose me.




You think not rating it massively  is snobbery. 

How so?  I've got nothing against fantasy stuff.  It's just GoT is pretty clunky


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## Siouxsie (Feb 13, 2017)

It went down the pan after 'The red wedding' for me...I understand finish on a high, but that episode took too many characters with it. I, for one, thought it ripped the soul out of it.
It's become another sad pastiche.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 13, 2017)

Siouxsie said:


> It went down the pan after 'The red wedding' for me...I understand finish on a high, but that episode took too many characters with it. I, for one, thought it ripped the soul out of it.
> It's become another sad pastiche.


That's the best bit in the TV series and the books.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 13, 2017)

Siouxsie said:


> It went down the pan after 'The red wedding' for me...I understand finish on a high, but that episode took too many characters with it. I, for one, thought it ripped the soul out of it.
> It's become another sad pastiche.


A pastiche of what tho?


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## Siouxsie (Feb 13, 2017)

Its earlier self


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## Reno (Feb 13, 2017)

Siouxsie said:


> It went down the pan after 'The red wedding' for me...I understand finish on a high, but that episode took too many characters with it. I, for one, thought it ripped the soul out of it.
> It's become another sad pastiche.



Nope, it's still good and some of the best stuff in the series came after the red wedding. I also don't understand what it's supposed to be a pastiche of because the story keeps developing and has been going to new places, especially in the most recent season where several of the female characters truly came into their own.


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## Reno (Feb 13, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> You think not rating it massively  is snobbery.
> 
> How so?  I've got nothing against fantasy stuff.  It's just GoT is pretty clunky


What fantasy on film or TV would you rate above it then ?


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## Siouxsie (Feb 13, 2017)

I can only give my opinion.
I Didn't think following episodes were up to scratch and that it's living on the earlier success and reputation it had....imitating itself instead of moving forward.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2017)

the great thing is its moved beyond/differently to the books now so the great 'BOOK WANKERS!' wars of yesteryear are no more and peace reigns once more in the U75 Kingdoms. Sort of.


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## Idris2002 (Feb 13, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> peace reigns once more in the U75 Kingdoms. Sort of.



Winter is Coming.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 13, 2017)

Siouxsie said:


> I can only give my opinion.
> I Didn't think following episodes were up to scratch and that it's living on the earlier success and reputation it had....imitating itself instead of moving forward.


The Wildling/White Walker battle was the most spectacular thing I've ever seen on telly


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## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2017)

wayward bob said:


> i get pissed off with magical resurrections mind...


I don't mind them so long as they are kept to minimum and have consequences. Nobody peirces the veil and comes back unchanged, I can live with that.


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## Reno (Feb 13, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> The Wildling/White Walker battle was the most spectacular thing I've ever seen on telly


Same here, better than anything in the LOTR movies.


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## bimble (Feb 13, 2017)

I fancy Tormund Giantsbane, so will be tuning in for the further adventures of. Unless he died already, can't remember tbh.


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## Siouxsie (Feb 13, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> The Wildling/White Walker battle was the most spectacular thing I've ever seen on telly


It still has it's moments, but they are moments, not full episodes anymore, sadly.
As you have mentioned, that scene was great telly as was Cersei's walk of shame, Lena Headey was wonderful.
It's just overall, it's lacking, sorry.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2017)

bimble said:


> I fancy Tormund Giantsbane, so will be tuning in for the further adventures of. Unless he died already, can't remember tbh.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2017)

On Brienne and Stannis that was the best stannis bit I think, we didn't even see him get the chop from brienne 'go on then. Do yer duty' said with a weariness of a beaten man. You earned it stannis


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## Reno (Feb 13, 2017)

bimble said:


> I fancy Tormund Giantsbane, so will be tuning in for the further adventures of. Unless he died already, can't remember tbh.


Me too !


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## bimble (Feb 13, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


>


you had to ruin it didn't you. 
Actually I beat you to it, by googling the actor, who is nothing at all without the beard and the raggedy leathers and the backdrop of frozen apocalyptic wastes.


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## Idris2002 (Feb 13, 2017)

bimble said:


> you had to ruin it didn't you.
> Actually I beat you to it, by googling the actor, who is nothing at all without the beard and the raggedy leathers and the backdrop of frozen apocalyptic wastes.


Hardly your first disappointment with the male gender, surely?


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## bimble (Feb 13, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Hardly your first disappointment with the male gender, surely?


Sadly not. That's why I insist on raggedy leathers, furs, and apocalyptic backdrops on all first dates.


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## ginger_syn (Feb 15, 2017)

Haven't seen the TV show but did read four of the books then completely lost interest in reading further I bought the fifth one and just couldn't be bothered to read it even though they were well written and nowhere near as difficult a read as those bloody Thomas Covenant chronicles  or as disappointing as the Wheel of Times books.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2017)

I tried to like it but all that cod medieval magic stuff seemed a bit, well, daft.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 15, 2017)

I'm watching episode 1 now. I'm 20 Minutes in. So far I'm pretty bored. It's getting 5 more minutes.


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## Spymaster (Jul 15, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm watching episode 1 now. I'm 20 Minutes in. So far I'm pretty bored. It's getting 5 more minutes.


I got further than that. But not much.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 15, 2017)

I gave up.


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## chilango (Jul 15, 2017)

I've just watched 1-5 (I think) of Series 1 over the last few nights. It's pretty good. But I know what happens having read the books and watched "highlights" from later Series. So am not especially hooked. I like the Wall. Would prefer to just watch stuff based around there.

The South is less interesting to me.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jul 15, 2017)

I may have said this before but s1 and s2 *just* kept me watching.  S3 onwards had me hooked.


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## Gromit (Jul 15, 2017)

I've read all the books and seen every episode but I'll won't give you my opinion until it's concluded.


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## ferrelhadley (Jul 15, 2017)

One of the reasons I have enjoyed it is there is an over arching thematic consistency to the fall of major characters.
Neds sense of honour kills him and unleashes the tribulations of his children.
Tywins ambitions for his family over the needs of its members.
Robert Baratheons gluttony.
Robbs youthful love and misplaced trust.
Stannis sense of entitlement and lack of concern for his men.
Etc.

It is often critiqued for its amoral take on the world, but reality is amoral and the deaths and falls in the boosk\show do not fall into the soppy moral "the good prevail" but the instruments of your doom is ultimately your mortal failings.

Other aspects I like is its clear links to real history and the attention to detail with much the physical world\ military stuff in the TV show. That said GRRM has a great knowledge of European history but gets the military aspects of his world very wrong in places.

I doubt anyone will change their opinions on my views, but these are the reasons I enjoy the show.


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## ferrelhadley (Jul 15, 2017)

Reno said:


> Same here, better than anything in the LOTR movies.


I have to disagree and say that Helm's Deep in the great fantasy battle on screen. I think it gets it pacing, its place in the story and its arc nailed on. Both have managed to evoke the feeling of holding back a genocidal apocalypse, both have the same role in their stories\worlds. You get sucked into near catastrophe in the small representing the great catastrophe that has been unleashed but unrecognized. 
But Helm's Deep, you have the King poetically explaining his motivation before the last ditch charge,Homer to Beowulf, boom. The battle itself builds and builds until you have a foreshadowed rescue. The release of morning bringing a victory but is it a false dawn?
Each to their own and every opinion is valid for the person who feels that truth, but I go with the Jackson and the don on this one.


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## Idaho (Jul 15, 2017)

Lotr films were shit. The location and pacing made it feel like the whole of middle earth was tiny. At least GOT feels world scale.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jul 16, 2017)

Idaho said:


> Lotr films were shit. The location and pacing made it feel like the whole of middle earth was tiny. At least GOT feels world scale.



I like bits of LOTR, but ultimately, bar a few scary monsters, it's still pretty childish.  GOT's characters are brilliantly drawn and rounded, few falling into all good or all evil.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 16, 2017)

editor said:


> I tried to like it but all that cod medieval magic stuff seemed a bit, well, daft.



^ that.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jul 16, 2017)

I tried to like Star Wars but all the spaceships and stuff seemed a bit daft.


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## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

editor said:


> I tried to like it but all that cod medieval magic stuff seemed a bit, well, daft.


For a series set in a magical realm the amount of actual magic that takes place is pretty negligible.


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 16, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I tried to like Star Wars but all the spaceships and stuff seemed a bit daft.



That too.


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## Idaho (Jul 16, 2017)

Some people just don't like fantasy. They don't enjoy that kind of fiction.


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## Idaho (Jul 16, 2017)

Personally I can't abide murder mystery. It's like the same story for the millionth time. I can tolerate the preposterous if it's immersive and novel.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

with a few notable exceptions its westerns for me.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

I have genres I'm not well disposed towards, but I'm ready to be immersed in character and story if it's engaging. I'll accept the internal logic of the genre if the engagement is there.

But 20 minutes had passed in Game of Thrones and I had no character that I was interested in, no questions had presented themselves that I cared about the answer to, and no real story had opened up. And if I'm already counting the minutes it's really not a good sign. 

I know people have said they didn't get into it until series three. But I've fallen for that before. I'm not going to sit through hours of something I'm not enjoying just in the hope that it'll get better. 

It's the same thing with books. I don't care how well regarded a book is by other people, if it hasn't grabbed me in 50 pages I give up.


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## xenon (Jul 16, 2017)

I'm not big on fantasy, the general dragons, princesses and wizards kind. Never read LoTR, elves can fuck off.

But there is other fantasy, like GoT.  Started reading A Song of Ice and Fire after hearing the hype over the TV show. Read them back to back over the summer of 2011, mostly in the pub. SO have forgotten some of the finer details.


Alright, yeah there are dragons, princesses, magic and elves... But it's not about that for me. The characters are recognisably human. The power struggles and grim realities of war and treachery. How they develop and react. The fantastic, world building with full back story, cultures, races history, I think is brilliant.

IN contrast to some other posters, the parts of the show set in Kings Landing and the North are my favourite elements. The close quarters stuff, characters manuvering to stay alive in KL. The battles, alliances wrought and broken in the North. Wandering soldiers. The casual horrors visited upon the lands subjects.

I hope S7 isn't just battle after battle. Zombie apocalypse will get dull.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> But 20 minutes had passed in Game of Thrones and I had no character that I was interested in, no questions had presented themselves that I cared about the answer to, and no real story had opened up. And if I'm already counting the minutes it's really not a good sign.



20 minutes isn't long to get the feel of a 2 hour film, never mind a TV show which stretches over 8 seasons.  Films/telly/music/books that require a wee bit of getting in to are generally the most satisfying in the long run IME.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> 20 minutes isn't long to get the feel of a 2 hour film, never mind a TV show which stretches over 8 seasons.  Films/telly/music/books that require a wee bit of getting in to are generally the most satisfying in the long run IME.


20 minutes is a 1/6th of a 2 hour film. If it hasn't caught my interest by the time over 16% has passed it's clearly not for me.


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## mojo pixy (Jul 16, 2017)

I gave the whole first episode a fair go, I don't mind losing an hour tbf. There's a tasty ending to the first episode, which was what caught me and probably others.


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## strung out (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> I've read all the books and seen every episode but I'll won't give you my opinion until it's concluded.


Could you extend this to the rest of your posts please?


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## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

strung out said:


> Could you extend this to the rest of your posts please?


On a scale of 0 to 10 (considering how long George takes to release books aswell the fact stupid people were saying I can make my mind up in 20 minutes etc.) how serious do you think I was?


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## chilango (Jul 17, 2017)

Gonna start Season 2 tonight


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## Santino (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> On a scale of 0 to 10 (considering how long George takes to release books aswell the fact stupid people were saying I can make my mind up in 20 minutes etc.) how serious do you think I was?


He doesn't care, he just wants you to STFU.


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