# Is there such a thing as a cheap but decent SLR?



## fractionMan (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm fed up with my photos looking shit. A few of my friends have _amazing_ midas like super-cameras which turn every shot into gold. A step in that direction would be welcomed.


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## Crispy (Aug 9, 2011)

Budget?


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## fractionMan (Aug 9, 2011)

Not sure.

I expect there's diminishing returns and I don't want to spend a fortune.  I just want something that's better than the crappy compacts or phone cameras I've used.


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## Crispy (Aug 9, 2011)

You could consider a quality compact like the Lumix LX5 (under £300), which has a big sensor and nice lens, but remains pocketable.


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## fractionMan (Aug 9, 2011)

Long ago I had a compact that actually took decent shots.  It broke and the thing I replaced it with (same brand and price point) was terribad.  I'll check out the LX5.  Cheers.


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## fractionMan (Aug 9, 2011)

Hmm. Anyone used the Samsung EX1? http://www.trustedreviews.com/Samsung-EX1_Digital-Camera_review

It's supposed to be a LX3 competitor but is a fair bit cheaper at around 250 quid. (the lumix LX5 is around 320 at the moment - The lx3 can be found for 260 or so)


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## fractionMan (Aug 9, 2011)

The lumix is sooo much prettier though


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## Cid (Aug 10, 2011)

I'd say it's worth going for an SLR over a compact if you can afford it. Presumably you already have some kind of compact that you've been taking shit pics on which you can use if you need a small camera in a pinch... I think what I love about SLRs is the speed with which you can use them. Instantly switched on/off, depress the button and you shoot immediately. Might only be a second or two's difference, but compacts just feel sluggish in comparison (and with moving things tiny amounts of time can make all the difference to your results). Of course there are clear advantages with lens quality, the fact you see exactly what you'll shoot, that you can use flashes etc, changing lenses, access to controls, but it's the immediacy I notice most when I switch between the two. Perhaps newer compacts are faster though.

I haven't bought an SLR since the D70 came out, and that's still going strong despite regular use (other than a bit of sensor dust)... Most of the current generation are better specced than my camera, so probably fine. As an example the entry level D3100 has 11 point autofocus (the D70 had 5), 14MP (D70 6.4MP or something), sensor cleaning, 100-3200 ISO (D70 200-1600), HD video (really want a DSLR with this, imagine you can produce some top quality video, even if it does eat memory cards), 3" monitor (D70 1.8") and it's smaller. That costs around £400, it's predecessor, the D3000 can be had for £300 but imo the D3100 offers enough improvements to make it worthwhile (not least video)... The one advantage the D70 did have was that it came with the better 18-70mm (3.5-4.5) lens rather than the 18-55mm (3.5 to a slightly shit 5.6), so you might want to factor in the cost of some faster glass at some point.

I don't use my compact that much these days, but there are situations where I just wouldn't use an SLR, however a shit compact is usually a better idea than an expensive one for these anyway.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

Cheers Cid.  What's your opinion on the compacts above like the LX5?  They're sort of top end in-betweeners that I didn't know existed.  I like the form factor tbh, bit bigger than a regular compact but not as massive as a SLR.  They also sound a bit easier to work for a numpty like me.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

Also, anyone got anything to say about micro-four-thirds cameras?

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/digitalcameras/are-micro-four-thirds-cameras-evil-49302673/

They're sort of dSLR/Compact hybrids.


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## Cid (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm slightly out of touch on the compacts market (the ed's usually your man for these), the Lumix are excellent though; the Leica compact range is basically a rebrand of them but much more expesnive - Panasonic electronics with a Leica lens.

The 4 3 cameras I know nothing about, look interesting but perhaps better to wait for the market to mature a bit.

The consumer SLRs aren't that hard to use btw, that's why I recommend Nikon, they have a reputation for being relatively easy to pick up... I mean really you can just set everything to auto and take great pics with them, but the great thing is you can keep learning and refining your techniques. Personally my ideal set up would be a higher end Nikon (full frame please) and a Lumix.


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## FunkyUK (Aug 10, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Cheers Cid. What's your opinion on the compacts above like the LX5? They're sort of top end in-betweeners that I didn't know existed. I like the form factor tbh, bit bigger than a regular compact but not as massive as a SLR. They also sound a bit easier to work for a numpty like me.



tbh, I have an LX3 and Nikon DSLRS.  The only thing the LX3 has over the DSLRs is pocketability.  The quality comes nowhere near, and I find the LX3 very fiddly to use.  If you try and do something a little less than automatic, the controls and navigation, while better than most compacts can be really fiddly.  (and don't get me started on lack of optical viewfinder).  On the SLRs, I have one dial for aperture, one for shutter speed, and a meter in the viewfinder.  The SLR is far easier to operate if you need to be quick.  That said, the LX3 /5's are excellenct compacts.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

So the d3000 for 300 odd quid is a bit of a bargain then? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-D3000-Digital-Camera-18-55/dp/B002J9GIAQ/ref=dp_cp_ob_ce_title_1

(the d3100 is 400 quid)

Alternatives at that price point (300 quid) are sony A390 & olympus e-450 & pentax kx (320 squid)


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## editor (Aug 10, 2011)

FunkyUK said:


> tbh, I have an LX3 and Nikon DSLRS. The only thing the LX3 has over the DSLRs is pocketability. The quality comes nowhere near, and I find the LX3 very fiddly to use. If you try and do something a little less than automatic, the controls and navigation, while better than most compacts can be really fiddly. (and don't get me started on lack of optical viewfinder). On the SLRs, I have one dial for aperture, one for shutter speed, and a meter in the viewfinder. The SLR is far easier to operate if you need to be quick. That said, the LX3 /5's are excellenct compacts.


SLRs are generally easier to use and perform better in low light, but in the right conditions the quality can be superlative from LX3/LX5 cameras. I can't say I find them particularly fiddly to use at all either considering their size.

I had a Micro Four Thirds camera but got rid of it - the lack of an optical viewfinder made it neither fish nor fowl to me - but there are some excellent budget dSLRs about, like the Nikon D3100, Canon EOS1000D and Pentax Kr. There's some decent bridge cameras about too like this one: http://www.wirefresh.com/panasonic-lumix-dmc-fz100-our-king-of-the-superzooms-for-the-summer/


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## Cid (Aug 10, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> So the d3000 for 300 odd quid is a bit of a bargain then? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikon-D3000-Digital-Camera-18-55/dp/B002J9GIAQ/ref=dp_cp_ob_ce_title_1
> 
> (the d3100 is 400 quid)



Yeah, it's a perfectly good camera, the D3100 is probably worth the extra £100 for the video, live view (i.e you can view through the screen rather than viewfinder) and extra pixel count (ok that bit isn't so significant) but other than that there isn't much difference. Comparison url='http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond3100/'here'url].


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## Cid (Aug 10, 2011)

Fuck it, some just tell me how the new linking procedure works.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

I just cut and paste the url in without the here bit 

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond3100/

Video not super important to me. Decent low light photography is probably my most desirable 'feature'.


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## Crispy (Aug 10, 2011)

Cid said:


> Fuck it, some just tell me how the new linking procedure works.


make some text
hilight it
click the link button


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

Good guide to dSLRs on that site, including the _whys_: http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Guides/dslr_buying_guide_01.htm


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## editor (Aug 10, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> I just cut and paste the url in without the here bit
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond3100/
> 
> Video not super important to me. Decent low light photography is probably my most desirable 'feature'.


If you can stretch to the D5100, its low light performance is awesome.


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## Cid (Aug 10, 2011)

Crispy said:


> make some text
> hilight it
> click the link button



here

Ah, cheers - obvious really, I like doing things manually though. 

Not sure about D3000 low light, it has a lower ISO range than the D3100, but beyond that I'm not sure.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

editor said:


> If you can stretch to the D5100, its low light performance is awesome.



Sounds great but it's a bit of a jump at over 500 quid


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## editor (Aug 10, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Sounds great but it's a bit of a jump at over 500 quid


It is indeed, but if you're going to be doing a lot of low light stuff, it could be worth the investment.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

It's a lot of money for something I consider a bit of a indulgence. It's not like I'm a 'proper' photographer.

The pentax K-x has some good reviews and also seems a bargain at 320.  It's got a lot in common with the more expensive K-r http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/pentax_kx_review/


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## Crispy (Aug 10, 2011)

I have a pentax SLR (older model) and it has 2 nice features lacking from similar canon and nikon. First, it uses AA batteries, so you can always get spares in a pinch (I use niMh rechargeables, but it's nice to know you can pop into a shop for more). Second, the focus motor is in the camera body (it's in the lens on the others), which means that all Pentax lenses from the last 40 years will fit. There are some bargains to be had on ebay.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

That sounds promising.  I know nothing about lenses tbh, but I'd like to find out.


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## editor (Aug 10, 2011)

My tip: you never live to regret buying a better camera than you thought you could afford (unless you go bankrupt in the process, natch).


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

300 quid is already more than I can afford   But I know where you're coming from.


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## Crispy (Aug 10, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> That sounds promising. I know nothing about lenses tbh, but I'd like to find out.


How about this beast for only a tenner?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kiron-28-...=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item19c74e02ce


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## Cid (Aug 10, 2011)

Incidentally does anyone know anything about why Nikon aren't releasing new DSLRs in the pro range? Presumably (understandably) the tsunami and economic situation are delaying stuff, but iirc a D700 replacement was projected for Q1 2011.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

Great, finally decided on the K-x only to find argos is out of stock everywhere and it's way more than 320 elsewhere.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

Crispy said:


> How about this beast for only a tenner?
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kiron-28-...=UK_Lenses_Filters_Lenses&hash=item19c74e02ce



That looks


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

Opinions on buying second hand cameras of ebay?  What's a fair price?  Things to watch out for?  Don't do it?


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## Cid (Aug 10, 2011)

Hmm... It's a tricky one, I wouldn't - lots of things that can go wrong but aren't immediately obvious and you have no warranty.


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## stuff_it (Aug 10, 2011)

If you know any kids that have been looting....


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## editor (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm not sure I'd buy a cheapish SLR camera secondhand off eBay. Budget cameras aren't exactly built to last these days.


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## fractionMan (Aug 10, 2011)

Ok, found a pentax k-x for 355 including case and sdcard.  I think I'm gonna get it.  A 3100 would be 399 without case and card.


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## Paul Russell (Aug 14, 2011)

Bit out of touch with all these new models, but the Nikon D3100 @ about £400 does seem like fantastic value (and in a different league to the D3000).


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## DIMPLES1 (Aug 15, 2011)

This is a useful thread. I was just coming to ask for new camera advice. I'd initially thought of getting a DSLR, then spotted some of the higher end compact cameras where you can change lenses, but seems you think just going for a DSLR is the way to go.

So if I went for the Nikon D3100 or even D5100 what lenses would I need?

I want to take close ups of the nipper, ordinary shots mainly & some night stiff - lights & fireworks etc & some scenic stuff, over the moors & stuff.


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## friedaweed (Aug 15, 2011)

If you got the 18-55 kit lens and the 55-200 vr you'd be set for most shooting situations.


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## DIMPLES1 (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks a lot.

Decision making time. Think I need to hold them in a shop & get a feel for them.


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## weltweit (Aug 17, 2011)

There is a second hand digital SLR like mine (FujiFilm S2) selling in a local camera store for £300..

I am sorely tempted.


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## hmmph (Aug 19, 2011)

I know absolutely nothing about DSLR so don't know if this is a good deal but I saw this offer on Groupon today and thought of this thread...

http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/london/samsung/695411?nlp=&CID=UK_CRM_1_0_0_231&a=9


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## editor (Aug 19, 2011)

weltweit said:


> There is a second hand digital SLR like mine (FujiFilm S2) selling in a local camera store for £300..
> 
> I am sorely tempted.


Abit more and you can get a new SLR with a warranty....


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## gamma globulins (Aug 19, 2011)

Possibly been thrown by the impact of the canon video quality and are trying to match it before they release?


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## weltweit (Aug 19, 2011)

editor said:


> Abit more and you can get a new SLR with a warranty....



Yes, that is true but in Nikon fit to go with my lenses I don't get the features and, I think, image quality I want. I might be in the market for a used D200 ... should be able to pick one of those up for not too much.


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## chandlerp (Aug 22, 2011)

I have the entry level Canon Eos 1000D.  For me it is very good and great value.

Good low light photography, doesn't do video though.


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