# Just been laid off LOL



## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

Check this shit out....




> Dear Bob,
> Following our earlier telephone conversation I now attach a copy of the letter from my client sent to you today.
> I am sorry that this is the outcome following the sale of the property but as discussed my clients want to manage the buildings in house.
> 
> ...


 
Who thinks i should tell them FUCK ALL


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## friedaweed (Aug 1, 2012)

Cunts. Make up lots of shite and feed them that


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

Im going to hide the leccy bill it's 45K a month, and they will be round to disconect within a week or so


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## kwaimaisabai (Aug 1, 2012)

The other aproach is to keep it professional.  It sounds like we're in different industries but I've had some nice little day jobs, at an inflated daily rate of course, from companies that had previously made me redundant.


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

Fuck em, i worked my arse off on this place this past year resturctured the whole thing and the place runs like a dream now... they have been here a week and just sacked me off over the phone...


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## harpo (Aug 1, 2012)

Bad news mate.  You in a union?  Contacted ACAS?


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

Contractor?


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## dylanredefined (Aug 1, 2012)

Find out if your getting any redundancy? Then do the minimum needed. Unless you can retire petty vengeance is bound to bite you in the arse. Sorry to here that excess politeness can make Tim dread working with you without him being able to blame you.


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

Temp to perm role, only went perm in April 

so only 3 months service direct for the company.


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## Voley (Aug 1, 2012)

kwaimaisabai said:


> The other aproach is to keep it professional. It sounds like we're in different industries but I've had some nice little day jobs, at an inflated daily rate of course, from companies that had previously made me redundant.


Very true. There's many a person that's been rehired as a 'consultant' (with commensurate wages) once the employers realise how indispensable you were. Alternatively, telling them jack shit and laughing as they flounder to keep things going can be equally rewarding, if not in a financial sense.


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 1, 2012)

Just a little thought -

a bell labelled 'TUPE' is ringing here. 

If your current job is going to be done, but by a different contractor (or taken in house) then you might possibly have a right to be transferred on current pay / conditions / length of service to the new employer.

Like if a council privatises / re-tenders / takes back in-house a particular function (e.g. the cleaning of a particular building) the people who do that function have a right to transfer to the new employer.

Obviously I don't know any more of the facts than what your opening posts says so I may be talking bollocks, but possibly worth further research.  Think I've posted somewhere on U75 about TUPE in the past so can probably find that for you.


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

I have already been TUPE'd over to them, that's why they are sacking me.

they want to run it in House from that there London.... good luck to them lol


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I have already been TUPE'd over to them, that's why they are sacking me.
> 
> they want to run it in House from that there London.... good luck to them lol



Did they say summat about an ETO reason?


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> I have already been TUPE'd over to them, that's why they are sacking me.
> 
> they want to run it in House from that there London.... good luck to them lol


 


If it meets the criteria for a genuine redundancy, and they are going about redundancy in the legal way, then I guess there's not a lot you can do.

How long were you in the temp role?  I have a faint feeling that if you're in the same temp role for long enough, you can acquire some of the rights of a permanent employee - so possibly redundancy pay?  (would be worth talking to CAB / ACAS / union about this, as I'm not sure of my facts)

If all else fails, I'm sure you can leave them with a few surprises - strategically placed frozen prawns on your last day comes highly recommended...


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

dum de dum


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> Did they say summat about an ETO reason?


 
Sorry whats ETO?


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Sorry whats ETO?




"Economic, Technical or Organisational" I.e. get out clause for TUPE related dismissals. You say that you've already been TUPEd over, yes? What prior consultation etc, and who in their organisation will be doing it Inhouse now?  I can think of a few ways that would possibly give them a bit of grief, and possibly a bit of extra cash to make you go quietly. But push/shove length of service is going to be fairly critical.


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> The above was in an E-mail, and this is in the letter then sent me,


 
couldn't they be honest and conclude it "and now fuck off" ?


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> "Economic, Technical or Organisational" I.e. get out clause for TUPE related dismissals. You say that you've already been TUPEd over, yes? What prior consultation etc, and who in their organisation will be doing it Inhouse now? I can think of a few ways that would possibly give them a bit of grief, and possibly a bit of extra cash to make you go quietly. But push/shove length of service is going to be fairly critical.


 
Started as temp August 2011, made perm April 2012, was TUPED last week they have not spoken with me about anything, this is the only contact i have had from the new firm, they didnt even know my name or where to send this letter i had to give them this info.


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## Firky (Aug 1, 2012)

Too many acronyms for me to follow this thread, but what a bastard for you 

Can I ask what kind of house runs up leccy bills of £45k? I have lived with a houseful of student lasses and they didn't even manage to run up bills like that, no matter how much they left their hair straighteners in, used the tumble drier and left electric bar fires on. Care home, surely? 

I am shit at employment advice but I'd get down to the dole now and start that laborious shite and try keep busy, speaking from experience it's all too easy to take an extended break and slip into the trap of not being able to get a job 'cos you thought you'd have a lie in every day for the next few weeks


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

firky said:


> Too many acronyms for me to follow this thread, but what a bastard for you
> 
> Can I ask what kind of house runs up leccy bills of £45k? I have lived with a houseful of student lasses and they didn't even manage to run up bills like that, no matter how much they left their hair straighteners in, used the tumble drier and left electric bar fires on. Care home, surely?
> 
> I am shit at employment advice but I'd get down to the dole now and start that laborious shite and try keep busy, speaking from experience it's all too easy to take an extended break and slip into the trap of not being able to get a job 'cos you thought you'd have a lie in every day for the next few weeks


 

this one
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Capital_Tower,_Cardiff.jpg


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Started as temp August 2011, made perm April 2012, was TUPED last week they have not spoken with me about anything, this is the only contact i have had from the new firm, they didnt even know my name or where to send this letter i had to give them this info.



What day in August 2011 and what's your contractual notice period?


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

was about the 8th i think, my contract notice is 30 days each way with the last firm.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 1, 2012)

Why did someone sign their name at the end of that with a picture of a dick?

Sorry to hear this....Dicks!


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## Edie (Aug 1, 2012)

Fuck Tim.


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> was about the 8th i think, my contract notice is 30 days each way with the last firm.



If you keep quiet for a couple of days before letting on that you might be about to make life difficult for them, you will have a year's service even if they break your contractUal notice period in an effort to get around that (the min notice period is a week).

Once you have a year's service (as you started continuous service before April this year) you have the statutory right not to be unfairly dismissed - which is what they have done to you.


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> If you keep quiet for a couple of days before letting on that you might be about to make life difficult for them, you will have a year's service even if they break your contractUal notice period in an effort to get around that (the min notice period is a week).
> 
> Once you have a year's service (as you started continuous service before April this year) you have the statutory right not to be unfairly dismissed - which is what they have done to you.


 
There sending me a letter by registerd mail tonight, so i'm not going to sign for that, i have not responded to the E-mail they have sent, so should i just not respond or speak to them for a week now?


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> There sending me a letter by registerd mail tonight, so i'm not going to sign for that, i have not responded to the E-mail they have sent, so should i just not respond or speak to them for a week now?



They've already served you with notice via email but they've given you a month. Just say nothing for a couple of days, don't alert them to making it one week's notice instead. They've fucked it up


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

Oh, and double check your start date and find copy of original temp contract.

Going to make ma tea now


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

Cheers for the help 

will get the info tomorrow 

not sure what contract i had as a temp but it was with Hays so they would have it i assume.


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## Ranbay (Aug 1, 2012)

cesare said:


> They've already served you with notice via email but they've given you a month. Just say nothing for a couple of days, don't alert them to making it one week's notice instead. They've fucked it up


 
Oh and not sure if they can do this but he gave me notice over the phone before they sent the E-mail.


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

Ah, agency temp. Might not be as cut and dried but yeah, get copy.


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## southside (Aug 1, 2012)

Treat them like mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them shit.

Bunch O Cunts!


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## cesare (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Oh and not sure if they can do this but he gave me notice over the phone before they sent the E-mail.



Morally it's dire but not unlawful


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 1, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> was about the 8th i think, my contract notice is 30 days each way with the last firm.


 
Under TUPE, unless you have specifically agreed to a change to your contract of employment since the transfer, you are still on the same terms and conditions as you were with the old employer.  Other than the employers' name changing, you are still on the same contract.


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## Badgers (Aug 2, 2012)

Negotiations......eh.....


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

might get job back, working on something.... will keep you posted


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## Badgers (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:
			
		

> might get job back, working on something.... will keep you posted



I told my people to call your people in the morning. My best people are reading not sleeping.


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

Joined the union and stuff,..


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## ddraig (Aug 2, 2012)

sorry to hear this dude
hope ya get it sorted and loadsa cash out of em


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## Badgers (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:
			
		

> Joined the union and stuff,..



JSA ASAP then BK


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Joined the union and stuff,..


 
While not wishing to discourage anyone from joining a union, many unions have a rule where they won't take up a case that's already arisen before someone joins, or within the first month or two of membership...

After all, you wouldn't take out home insurance after your house had already caught fire...


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## Quartz (Aug 2, 2012)

No suggestions, just very best wishes.


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## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> While not wishing to discourage anyone from joining a union, many unions have a rule where they won't take up a case that's already arisen before someone joins, or within the first month or two of membership...
> 
> After all, you wouldn't take out home insurance after your house had already caught fire...


Whilst I can understand that on one level, I think it's generally a bad policy.

Firstly because unless someone's an utter cunt, they'll remain a member of the union after having been helped by them, and will quite possibly contribute more to them in terms of organisation etc having seen their value first hand.
Secondly (but I'm less confident on this, it's just a feeling iykwim), because it doesn't harmonise well with the generally tone of worker solidarity etc - IMO.


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> While not wishing to discourage anyone from joining a union, many unions have a rule where they won't take up a case that's already arisen before someone joins, or within the first month or two of membership...
> 
> After all, you wouldn't take out home insurance after your house had already caught fire...


 
well it's worth a shot and if it does get messy which it might i will have some support. if not i will cancle it next month lol

and at least i can say i'm in a union etc


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> Whilst I can understand that on one level, I think it's generally a bad policy.
> 
> Firstly because unless someone's an utter cunt, they'll remain a member of the union after having been helped by them, and will quite possibly contribute more to them in terms of organisation etc having seen their value first hand.
> Secondly (but I'm less confident on this, it's just a feeling iykwim), because it doesn't harmonise well with the generally tone of worker solidarity etc - IMO.


 
It's difficult.

I can to some extent agree with what you're saying.

Having said that, there's no shortage of people who will be anywhere between indifferent and outright hostile to the union (e.g. past scabbing) who as soon as they personally have a problem, join and expect everyone to rally round and help them.  They aren't the slightest interested in solidarity, just "me".   And in many cases they give up membership as and when the problem's solved - is that fair to people who have been loyal union members in the long term?


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## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

Puddy_Tat said:


> It's difficult.
> 
> I can to some extent agree with what you're saying.
> 
> Having said that, there's no shortage of people who will be anywhere between indifferent and outright hostile to the union (e.g. past scabbing) who as soon as they personally have a problem, join and expect everyone to rally round and help them. They aren't the slightest interested in solidarity, just "me". And in many cases they give up membership as and when the problem's solved - is that fair to people who have been loyal union members in the long term?


No it's not, at all.  But I think that'd be a very small minority, and outweighed by the energy that previously uninterested people that had their balls saved by the union would bring.  Maybe I have too much faith in humanity though lol.

Black-listing scabs would be a reasonable measure IMO - or enforcing a 'no assistance for 1st 12 months of membership' rule on them.


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## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Joined the union and stuff,..


Your company has only existed for 18 months.  Who the fuck are they?


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> Your company has only existed for 18 months. Who the fuck are they?


 
who top    land? some people who buy buildings and sack people is as much as i know.


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## 5t3IIa (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> might get job back, working on something.... will keep you posted


 
Oh good 

Sorry to hear this but seems all is not quite lost


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> Oh good
> 
> Sorry to hear this but seems all is not quite lost


 
things are afoot as they say..... 

but going to be a week or so before i know anything


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## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> who topland? some people who buy buildings and sack people is as much as i know.


New company, and the behaviour above - I'm wondering if they're purely an asset stripping vehicle. No parent company or subsiduaries listed though, so where's their money coming from? You got any way of finding out who their Directors are - CEO & FD?


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## 5t3IIa (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> things are afoot as they say.....
> 
> but going to be a week or so before i know anything


 
Lay low like a cunning snake waiting to strike 

You can occupy yourself burning DVDs


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> New company, and the behaviour above - I'm wondering if they're purely an asset stripping vehicle. No parent company or subsiduaries listed though, so where's their money coming from? You got any way of finding out who their Directors are - CEO & FD?


 
yeah that's what they do. they will run this place into the ground and flip it.

They have bought a fair few places in the past year, most of the names are on the website.


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

5t3IIa said:


> Lay low like a cunning snake waiting to strike
> 
> You can occupy yourself burning DVDs


 
you didnt remind me did you


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## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah that's what they do. they will run this place into the ground and flip it.
> 
> They have bought a fair few places in the past year, most of the names are on the website.


Wow.  Same group of Directors, and fifty gazillion appointments each, all with the same companies. http://www.whorunsit.org/companies/07468582

Vulture alert eh.


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## 5t3IIa (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> you didnt remind me did you


 
I'm reminding you now!


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> Wow. Same group of Directors, and fifty gazillion appointments each, all with the same companies. http://www.whorunsit.org/companies/07468582
> 
> Vulture alert eh.


 
Yup....


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 2, 2012)

cesare said:


> What day in August 2011 and what's your contractual notice period?


 
Ah, I see where you're going.


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## ddraig (Aug 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> No it's not, at all. But I think that'd be a very small minority, and outweighed by the energy that previously uninterested people that had their balls saved by the union would bring. Maybe I have too much faith in humanity though lol.
> 
> Black-listing scabs would be a reasonable measure IMO - or enforcing a 'no assistance for 1st 12 months of membership' rule on them.


you'd be suprsied. so many selfish people about  even when they 'get it' they do not care
colleague and 'mate' of mine would never join a union and used to run them and me and another colleague down for being a bit active and think it was hillarious. he is on over £30k and thought it a waste of money. when we had a potential problem he joined for a month, maybe 2 'just in case' and still thinks it funny that he cancelled after getting the help he needed.
another colleague in a dispute with me who vocally said that 'trade unions are stupid' etc, freaked out and was allowed to join and get advice on pre-existing problem to cover themselves in the dispute with me.
disgusting.
i am on half the amount of some of these people and one of the first things i did when i started was to join the union.
and don't talk to me about members who come in when there's a strike 
i've been threatened when picking them up on it


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## Corax (Aug 2, 2012)

ddraig said:


> you'd be suprsied. so many selfish people about  even when they 'get it' they do not care
> colleague and 'mate' of mine would never join a union and used to run them and me and another colleague down for being a bit active and think it was hillarious. he is on over £30k and thought it a waste of money. when we had a potential problem he joined for a month, maybe 2 'just in case' and still thinks it funny that he cancelled after getting the help he needed.
> another colleague in a dispute with me who vocally said that 'trade unions are stupid' etc, freaked out and was allowed to join and get advice on pre-existing problem to cover themselves in the dispute with me.
> disgusting.
> ...


Fair enough.


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## cesare (Aug 2, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ah, I see where you're going.



Aye, but still need to see how bob's contract temp to perm happened.

But no rush, cos maybe bob's got it sorted


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

Started 14th July 2011

Hays are going to send me the contract, nothing has changed and have always worked in that office in that role....

where are you going


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

oh i also signed the new terms on October 2011 when the temp worker things changed.


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## cesare (Aug 2, 2012)

Automatic unfair dismissal (even if they rely on the ETO defence they would still need to show a fair procedure, which they haven't eg no consultation and no appeal).

We need to see what your temp contract said In order to establish continuity of employment for one year, which is what's needed.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 2, 2012)

Corax said:


> Whilst I can understand that on one level, I think it's generally a bad policy.
> 
> Firstly because unless someone's an utter cunt, they'll remain a member of the union after having been helped by them, and will quite possibly contribute more to them in terms of organisation etc having seen their value first hand.
> Secondly (but I'm less confident on this, it's just a feeling iykwim), because it doesn't harmonise well with the generally tone of worker solidarity etc - IMO.


 
not policy Margaret Thatcher putting the boot into unions... to prevent people joining as they were about to be sacked.


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

cesare said:


> Automatic unfair dismissal (even if they rely on the ETO defence they would still need to show a fair procedure, which they haven't eg no consultation and no appeal).
> 
> We need to see what your temp contract said In order to establish continuity of employment for one year, which is what's needed.


 
Thanks  hope to have it soon.....


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## cesare (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> Thanks  hope to have it soon.....



It's a bit of a "watch and wait" for the next few days ...


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

*Dismissal before, during or after business transfers*

If the business you work for is being transferred to another company or taken over, you may be protected under the ‘Transfer of Undertakings’ (TUPE) protections.
If you are protected and you are dismissed by either your old or new employer because of the transfer, or a reason connected with it, the dismissal will be automatically unfair. The only exception to this is if your employer can show the dismissal was for an economic, technical or organisational reason.

Employment protection during business transfers and takeovers (TUPE)


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## cesare (Aug 2, 2012)

See also: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1074480391&type=RESOURCES


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

ACAS seem to tell me that working for the agency means i was paid by them, and it wont count as a years service....


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## cesare (Aug 2, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> ACAS seem to tell me that working for the agency means i was paid by them, and it wont count as a years service....



That's why we need to see your temp contract, cos they're not all the same. And even if Hays *were* your employer up til April, you can still make life bloody difficult for new employers if they don't sweeten the bitter pill, so all would not be lost.


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## Ranbay (Aug 2, 2012)

Cheers


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## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 2, 2012)

ultimately if they've decided to off you there's little you can do to stop them getting you out, but the fall doesn't have to have a hard landing, so what would make you more comfortable about leaving?  Good reference, 1 years pay, a night with the bosses daughter etc.. work out what outcome you want from this.

If however they've just decided without any thought to the practicalities IE it's a business paper work tidy up exercise then it might be worth pointing out what can and can't be done remotely off site and have detailed instances which support this claim so you can say this happens you can't deal with this over the phone you need to do x and y, or that happens it would mean a round trip from london to sort it it happens on average y times a year...

But basically you need to work out what outcome you want...


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 3, 2012)

Having just seen OU's thread about the benefits forum being public, I thought I'd remind you that this forum is also public and googleable. If you're okay with that, fine, no problem, just pointing it out.


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## Ranbay (Aug 3, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Having just seen OU's thread about the benefits forum being public, I thought I'd remind you that this forum is also public and googleable. If you're okay with that, fine, no problem, just pointing it out.


 
Cheers, i will remove the letter the rest can stay... fuck em


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## Looby (Aug 3, 2012)

ddraig said:


> you'd be suprsied. so many selfish people about  even when they 'get it' they do not care
> colleague and 'mate' of mine would never join a union and used to run them and me and another colleague down for being a bit active and think it was hillarious. he is on over £30k and thought it a waste of money. when we had a potential problem he joined for a month, maybe 2 'just in case' and still thinks it funny that he cancelled after getting the help he needed.
> another colleague in a dispute with me who vocally said that 'trade unions are stupid' etc, freaked out and was allowed to join and get advice on pre-existing problem to cover themselves in the dispute with me.
> disgusting.
> ...



It makes me so fucking angry. The bloody excuses I hear on strike days. The best one recently was that they couldn't afford to strike as they were off to Florida...

I've just had a colleague resign from the union for the second time. He rejoined when threatened with dismissal (gross misconduct and guilty as sin). We saved his job, he stayed in for a couple of years and then resigned again. I will not be representing that colleague again and in that case we will invoke the 3 month rule if they rejoin.

I would also be very reluctant to represent anyone that consistently crossed picket lines without bloody good reason (severe hardship basically).

The amount of people that will call on you for help then scuttle passed our line with their heads down is disgusting.


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## Ranbay (Nov 16, 2012)

Update - They settled out of court for unfair dismissal i can't say anymore than that 
Update - I got a new job working for one of the Tenants in the building that i ran, doing Contract Management and Service Delivery 
Update - I was out of work for two months 
Update - The have just found out I'm now working in the building 
Update - I'm still in the union and never called them i manged everything on my own.
End Update


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## ddraig (Nov 16, 2012)

nice one top one sorted!! fukin 
well done


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 16, 2012)

Just seen this thread. Result.


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## equationgirl (Nov 16, 2012)

Nice one, well done


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## Puddy_Tat (Nov 16, 2012)




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## 19sixtysix (Nov 16, 2012)

Well done. Working in the same building. Do know anyone with a flash car to lend you for week or two  Bit of nose rubbing can be fun.


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## stuff_it (Nov 16, 2012)

19sixtysix said:


> Well done. Working in the same building. Do know anyone with a flash car to lend you for week or two  Bit of nose rubbing can be fun.


Probably worth hiring one tbf!


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## Ranbay (Nov 16, 2012)

As i said their based in that there London so they only come up once a week at the most.....

I been back there two weeks before they even knew


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## 19sixtysix (Nov 16, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> As i said their based in that there London so they only come up once a week at the most.....
> 
> I been back there two weeks before they even knew


 
I'm sure there's room for a bit of mischief given you know there business. Revenge is best served cold if not chilled.


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## Quartz (Nov 17, 2012)

Very well done!


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