# Firing employee



## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

Can I fire an employee for social media posts and being in the paper they haven’t done anything illegal but just don’t want them in my company


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## Sue (May 12, 2021)

🍿


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## maomao (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Can I fire an employee for social media posts and being in the paper they haven’t done anything illegal but just don’t want them in my company


What has he done?


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## FridgeMagnet (May 12, 2021)

It depends. Generally no if it's just you don't like his opinions on the Avengers.


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## blairsh (May 12, 2021)

maomao said:


> What has he done?


He? He!?! Who said "he"?


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## moochedit (May 12, 2021)




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## A380 (May 12, 2021)

Yes, yes you can. But don't stop there. You should also go to their house, bulldoze it down and sow the ground with salt. You  are entitled to do so and would be failing as an employer if you don't.


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## David Clapson (May 12, 2021)

Doesn't it depend how long they've been there? ISTR you can fire recent hires without giving a reason.


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## killer b (May 12, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Doesn't it depend how long they've been there? ISTR you can fire recent hires without giving a reason.


scab


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## Sue (May 12, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Doesn't it depend how long they've been there? ISTR you can fire recent hires without giving a reason.


Jesus. Don't encourage him ffs. 

No matter how long someone's been there or how legal or illegal it is, it's bullshit.


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## chilango (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Can I fire an employee for social media posts and being in the paper they haven’t done anything illegal but just don’t want them in my company



Depends.

What sort of business do you run?

(what's its name and where is it based etc)


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

They go to protests and post this on social media they have been in the local papers at protests and named very vocal but seems to be on popular items currently anti covid previously pro brexit I can seem them next coming out on Israel can’t really fault the work but it’s been mentioned about them


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## chilango (May 12, 2021)

Sounds like a wrong 'un. You're not unfortunate enough to have some of your employees in a Union are you? If so which one? Some of them can be a right pain...


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## xenon (May 12, 2021)

No and immediate pay rise in a promotion. It’s a leftover EU law.


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## maomao (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> anti covid


So are you pro-covid?


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## Smangus (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> They go to protests and post this on social media they have been in the local papers at protests and named very vocal but seems to be on popular items currently anti covid previously pro brexit I can seem them next coming out on Israel can’t really fault the work but it’s been mentioned about them



Shit, sorry boss, you got me bang to rights...


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## David Clapson (May 12, 2021)

Sue said:


> Jesus. Don't encourage him ffs.
> 
> No matter how long someone's been there or how legal or illegal it is, it's bullshit.


You don't know what was said. A bit stupid to make assumptions and leap to the defence of someone you know nothing about.


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> They go to protests and post this on social media they have been in the local papers at protests and named very vocal but seems to be on popular items currently anti covid previously pro brexit I can seem them next coming out on Israel can’t really fault the work but it’s been mentioned about them


you've got us with anti covid and pro brexit


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

chilango said:


> Depends.
> 
> What sort of business do you run?
> 
> (what's its name and where is it based etc)


Client facing sales so showroom with customers coming in and meeting staff


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## xenon (May 12, 2021)

you can sack Piers Corbyn, that is fine.


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## pug (May 12, 2021)

Best thing to do is give them paid leave of some sort, so they can follow their interests.


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## chilango (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Client facing sales so showroom with customers coming in and meeting staff



Need a bit more info than that tbh.


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## killer b (May 12, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> You don't know what was said. A bit stupid to make assumptions and leap to the defence of someone you know nothing about.


this guy isn't real, but you're still a scab.


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## Ax^ (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Client facing sales so showroom with customers coming in and meeting staff



how does that effect anything

does he scream his views around the office ?


Carry placards around the office?

also whos brought this to you attention someone after his job?


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

maomao said:


> So are you pro-covid?


I love covid it worked wonders for my business dropped at least 50% this year


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## Sue (May 12, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> You don't know what was said. A bit stupid to make assumptions and leap to the defence of someone you know nothing about.


No. But I do know that arbitrarily firing someone is shite


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> how does that effect anything
> 
> does he scream his views around the office ?
> 
> ...


No but customers have said it to me that’s the guy that was in the paper or some have come across social media posts 
I know this is all done outside work and I’m possibly being petty but I don’t like it


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## David Clapson (May 12, 2021)

Just fucking google it.  Dismissal: your rights


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## Ax^ (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> No but customers have said it to me that’s the guy that was in the paper or some have come across social media posts
> I know this is all done outside work and I’m possibly being petty but I don’t like it



without knowing what you don't like about what he doing

just makes you sounds like a shitty employer


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

My main concern is that it’s my business this guy is the first person some people meet when they arrive in and he could be at a protest over the weekend make the paper and have someone arrive on Monday looking at him going I know you and I don’t like your point of view  and leave going to a competitor


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

or they might look at him going I know you and I like your point of view I'll buy six please


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## bimble (May 12, 2021)

It’s great when you happen to find just the right place on the whole internet for the question that’s on yr mind isn’t it.


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

chilango said:


> Sounds like a wrong 'un. You're not unfortunate enough to have some of your employees in a Union are you? If so which one? Some of them can be a right pain...





David Clapson said:


> Just fucking google it.  Dismissal: your rights


It seems to be a grey area he arrives on time does his job I just don’t like his personal life and I think it reflects on my business 
But I also don’t want to end up in hot water for unfair dismissal

No union


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## keybored (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> They go to protests and post this on social media they have been in the local papers at protests and named very vocal but seems to be on popular items currently anti covid previously pro brexit I can seem them next coming out on Israel can’t really fault the work but it’s been mentioned about them


Nice effort. It was a bold gambit dropping Israel into the mix so soon though, think you overplayed your hand a bit there. 

I predict 5 pages before ban.


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## killer b (May 12, 2021)

no way this is making 5 pages


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

keybored said:


> Nice effort. It was a bold gambit dropping Israel into the mix so soon though, think you overplayed your hand a bit there.
> 
> I predict 5 pages before ban.


I’m neutral I have no view on Israel I only mentioned it before as they had been involved with something related before 
Look they may be genuine but I feel that this person jumps on the band wagon for attention at one stage I was convinced he was at it just for the attention of women but now I think it’s what they do 
Put it like this if I had a protest to bring back the old money this weekend they would show up and with placards or a megaphone


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## keybored (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Look they may be genuine but I feel that this person jumps on the band wagon for attention


lolrony


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## Sue (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> I’m neutral I have no view on Israel I only mentioned it before as they had been involved with something related before
> Look they may be genuine but I feel that this person jumps on the band wagon for attention at one stage I was convinced he was at it just for the attention of women but now I think it’s what they do
> *Put it like this if I had a protest to bring back the old money this weekend they would show up and with placards or a megaphone*


Everyone needs a hobby.


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## Poot (May 12, 2021)

Scoff all you like but we have a theme park near me where the very same thing happened. The bloke who ran the waltzers was always in the paper complaining about his workplace and eventually his manager sacked him.


So he sued for funfair dismissal.


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## David Clapson (May 12, 2021)

Dismissing staff   IANAL but IMO valid reasons for dismissal would include offending customers or being unable to get on with colleagues. You'd need to give a warning that you were considering dismissal and discuss your reasons with the employee. You could be vulnerable to an unfair dismissal claim if the employee argues that he was dismissed for political views or spare time activities. So your reasons for dismissal would need to be substantiated by something which shows the employee was detrimental to the business...perhaps complaints from customers or other employees.


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## Aladdin (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> They go to protests and post this on social media they have been in the local papers at protests and named very vocal but seems to be on popular items currently anti covid previously pro brexit I can seem them next coming out on Israel can’t really fault the work but it’s been mentioned about them




Ok so where are you hearing about this?


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## Supine (May 12, 2021)

Have you considered installing a gang plank to walk him off?


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## existentialist (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> It seems to be a grey area he arrives on time does his job I just don’t like his personal life and I think it reflects on my business
> But I also don’t want to end up in hot water for unfair dismissal
> 
> No union


Them's the breaks. All's fair in love and business.


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## pseudonarcissus (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> It seems to be a grey area he arrives on time does his job I just don’t like his personal life and I think it reflects on my business
> But I also don’t want to end up in hot water for unfair dismissal
> 
> No union


What does the employment contract/employee handbook say about use of social media? If nothing, then you would be in breach of contract.


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## hitmouse (May 12, 2021)

Oh yeah, this thread reminds me, I have an employee who puts beans on before cheese, am I within my rights to fire him for that?


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## keybored (May 12, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Oh yeah, this thread reminds me, I have an employee who puts beans on before cheese, am I within my rights to fire him for that?


yes, into the sun.


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Oh yeah, this thread reminds me, I have an employee who puts beans on before cheese, am I within my rights to fire him for that?


Does he arrive on time and do his job?


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## Sue (May 12, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Does he arrive on time and do his job?


What has that got to do with anything?


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## David Clapson (May 12, 2021)

You could have a friendly chat with him and advise him that his opinions on Brexit, Covid etc are public knowledge and highly controversial and that he needs to be careful not to have arguments with customers or staff.  But most people are not stupid enough to need to be told that...they will know that keeping things calm at work is a given. Only you can decide whether this person is harmless or likely to explode. In the meantime, keep a diary of anything relevant. If you ever end up at a tribunal, contemporaneous notes will carry far more weight than recollections.


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## A380 (May 12, 2021)

Worst


Evah.


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

They don’t give the views in work or push them to customers


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## Sasaferrato (May 12, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Just fucking google it.  Dismissal: your rights



Succinctly put!


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## muscovyduck (May 12, 2021)

Have you thought about,


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## Aladdin (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> They don’t give the views in work or push them to customers




Oh ... I definitely think you should sack him...






So that he sues you for all you're worth 😡


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## Treacle Toes (May 12, 2021)

I think you mistyped the forum address. You were looking for ScabsBum75 weren't you?


Cool story bro...


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## Shechemite (May 12, 2021)

Is he remainer or leaver?


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

A leaver 
You can guess what side I was on


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## Shechemite (May 12, 2021)

playing both sides against the middle I reckon  (taps nose)


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## David Clapson (May 12, 2021)

Thinking back to my days as an employer, if I had an employee who was a Leaver or anti-vaxxer, I'd think "how the fuck did a moron get through the interviews?" I'd consider firing myself for inept hiring. Then I'd scrutinise every bit of the idiot's work and find enough incompetence to dismiss them. The OP must be in a low-skilled industry where any idiot can do the job. In which case I'd kill myself or burn it all down for the insurance.


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## Shechemite (May 12, 2021)

You’ll get a badge for that David


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> A leaver
> You can guess what side I was on



You'd have put a lot of customers off with that position - have you thought of resigning?


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

Maybe I just have a bee in my bonnet I’ll try pull him aside and say that some of the views don’t look good for business and might be best to stay neutral while working with me 
Just don’t know how that will go down I’m thinking of it from school days once you got outside the gates you were free 

Best outcome they leave or reform but I won’t be firing them without a good reason and going the proper route 

As mentioned can’t fault his work and he’s punctual


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## Shechemite (May 12, 2021)

only hari-kiwi will suffice


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## Shechemite (May 12, 2021)

Sounds like this staff member is falling foul of the cancel culture


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## Gromit (May 12, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It depends. Generally no if it's just you don't like his opinions on the Avengers.


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

MadeInBedlam said:


> only hari-kiwi will suffice




?


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

I think they meant the Japanese suicide version


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## keybored (May 12, 2021)

two sheds said:


> View attachment 267955
> ?


Yeah, hari-kiwi. Like when someone commits sudoku.


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

It’s not minimum wage the job is sales based in a showroom and has commission that raises the higher they sell 
So that encourages staff to work


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

Encourages your staff to sell customers more expensive stuff they don't need you mean.


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## Shechemite (May 12, 2021)

Does he sell his views well?


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

Only outside of work that’s the problem


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## hitmouse (May 12, 2021)

I'm still not sure if this thread is actually any weirder than when someone started a genuine thread about housing advice and a poster chipped in saying "what if they're just trying to trick the landlord into giving them a home, eh?"


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## Ax^ (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Only outside of work that’s the problem



do you have to agree with you to work for you?


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

Commission selling really shows up managers who don't give a shit about their customers or their staff, only want the MONEEEEY.


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

Again this could be in my mind but I have spotted customers come in see him and leave 
This could be because that’s what I’m looking for as I’ve become paranoid 
The talk will happen and see how it goes


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

You don’t have to agree with me but I think in a public facing job you don’t need to go to every protest as mentioned I think this is done for attention not for believing in something


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

Why should anyone respond to you when you don't care if your staff rip customers off, because you're only interested in your sales and your profit?


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 12, 2021)

2/10, must try harder.


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## keybored (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> I think this is done for attention


You could be onto something. It's almost midnight and he's practically living rent-free in your head.


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## mikedescala (May 12, 2021)

We don’t force people to buy


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## A380 (May 12, 2021)

keybored said:


> Yeah, hari-kiwi. Like when someone commits sudoku.


No, I think you mean Hari Kristna.


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## Shechemite (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> We don’t force people to buy




You’d be richer if you did


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> We don’t force people to buy



Yeh but if you cared about your staff and customers you'd give a good salary and not reward your sales people for selling customers stuff they don't need.


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## teuchter (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> We don’t force people to buy


Ignore people here with their snidey comments; they all live in a magic money tree fantasy land, except for the ones who are bosses and spend a lot of effort pretending they aren't.


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> It’s not minimum wage the job is sales based in a showroom and has commission that raises the higher they sell
> So that encourages staff to work


Your staff think your products are so shit that you need to bribe them to sell the stuff? And you have such low regard for your customers that you milk them for as much money as you can? You should be looking at yourself rather than your staff.


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## two sheds (May 12, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Ignore people here with their snidey comments; they all live in a magic money tree fantasy land, except for the ones who are bosses and spend a lot of effort pretending they aren't.


ignore teuchter look at all the threads he starts, he just likes trying to make people feel guilty. Why do you do that?


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## David Clapson (May 13, 2021)

Ignore this clown. Obviously never heard of performance-related pay. Probably because performance is something only other people do.


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## editor (May 13, 2021)

Way above average trolling skills. 4/10


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## Shechemite (May 13, 2021)

two sheds said:


> ignore teuchter look at all the threads he starts, he just likes trying to make people feel guilty. Why do you do that?



people should feel guilty


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## lizzieloo (May 13, 2021)

I got the boot the other day from a job I've been in for about ten years, it's a zero hours job and since January I've had no hours. 

They just sent my P45, no letter, nothing else, just that. 

Cunts.


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## David Clapson (May 13, 2021)

That's awful.    I hope something better turns up.


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

That's a proper shitty way to be treated lizzieloo


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## A380 (May 13, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Ignore people here with their snidey comments; they all live in a magic money tree fantasy land, except for the ones who are bosses and spend a lot of effort pretending they aren't.



You’d base your sales force recruitment strategy on whether   you thought candidates had elbows or some such bizarre criteria based upon your obsessions.


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## A380 (May 13, 2021)

lizzieloo said:


> I got the boot the other day from a job I've been in for about ten years, it's a zero hours job and since January I've had no hours.
> 
> They just sent my P45, no letter, nothing else, just that.
> 
> Cunts.


That’s appalling behaviour from the company.


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## andysays (May 13, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Thinking back to my days as an employer...


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## andysays (May 13, 2021)

A380 said:


> You’d base your sales force recruitment strategy on whether   you thought candidates had elbows or some such bizarre criteria based upon your obsessions.


No lock on toilet door: no job


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## Johnny Doe (May 13, 2021)

I await the OP's 'how hard is reasonable to beat my cleaner if she hasn't paid the rent?' thread with great interest


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## platinumsage (May 13, 2021)

No customer knows or cares what their car salesman does at the weekend or thinks about COVID or brexit.


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## blairsh (May 13, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> No customer knows or cares what their car salesman does at the weekend or thinks about COVID or brexit.


But should always be sure, car salesman are cunts.


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## mikedescala (May 13, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> I await the OP's 'how hard is reasonable to beat my cleaner if she hasn't paid the rent?' thread with great interest


I’m not a landlord


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## mikedescala (May 13, 2021)

lizzieloo said:


> I got the boot the other day from a job I've been in for about ten years, it's a zero hours job and since January I've had no hours.
> 
> They just sent my P45, no letter, nothing else, just that.
> 
> Cunts.


That’s not right and hopefully you get a job soon 
I don’t agree with zero hours contracts 
As an employer I try to be fair but I also have to look after the business


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> As an employer I try to be fair but I also have to look after the business


And also realise that you only need to worry about what happens while the employees are at work, and not what they may choose to do outside of work.


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## mikedescala (May 13, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> And also realise that you only need to worry about what happens while the employees are at work, and not what they may choose to do outside of work.


Yes I’m aware of that and it was the reason for my post if I have no grounds about what happens outside far enough but as mentioned I thought it could have a negative impact on the business


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> That’s not right and hopefully you get a job soon
> I don’t agree with zero hours contracts
> As an employer I try to be fair but I also have to look after the business


Your business won't prosper if you shit on employee morale


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Yes I’m aware of that and it was the reason for my post if I have no grounds about what happens outside far enough but as mentioned I thought it could have a negative impact on the business


That's unlikely unless the employee concerned is raising issues in the workplace in an inappropriate way - you've said he does a good job so it sounds like this isn't the case.  You've said you've seen some customers leaving after seeing him - it's extremely unlikely that is the reason, even if the employee was pictured on the front page of the local rag on a demo.  It sounds more likely you're being a bit paranoid and seeing patterns where they don't exist.


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## mikedescala (May 13, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> That's unlikely unless the employee concerned is raising issues in the workplace in an inappropriate way - you've said he does a good job so it sounds like this isn't the case.  You've said you've seen some customers leaving after seeing him - it's extremely unlikely that is the reason, even if the employee was pictured on the front page of the local rag on a demo.  It sounds more likely you're being a bit paranoid and seeing patterns where they don't exist.


Possibly again this is the reason for my question 
Do I have grounds to do anything or do I leave it
I think the best course of action is an informal mention of how outside activities can reflect on your work


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Do I have grounds to do anything


No.

Everything you've said points in that direction - the individual can do what they like in their own time, and unless they're breaking the law it should be of no concern of yours.


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## platinumsage (May 13, 2021)

Even if I went somewhere and was greeted by a salesman who was the county's most-wanted nonce and I'd seen their mugshot all over the news I still would be highly unlikely to make the association. Customers just want to buy their stuff without getting ripped off and then leave - the possible extra-curricular activities of any staff they meet don't tend to enter their heads.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Possibly again this is the reason for my question
> Do I have grounds to do anything or do I leave it
> I think the best course of action is an informal mention of how outside activities can reflect on your work


The best course of action would be to stop acting like a wanker and hope your employee never sees this thread


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> I still would be highly unlikely to make the association.


Same with me.  It'd be very unlikely that I'd recognise someone who'd been on the front page of the paper - except perhaps in extreme cases if they looked like Harold Shipman or something.


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## bimble (May 13, 2021)

I am curious, how did you choose this website mike, to join especially to ask your question on ?


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

Why don't you join your employee on one of the demos mikedescala to see what it's all about?

You might not agree with his political views but so what - you'd quite possibly be on dodgy ground firing him for those views, except in certain limited cases (e.g. the police can sack people who belong to certain far-right organisations - which is fair enough).  I'm sure I work with people who's politics would appall me, but we just don't talk about the subject at work so it avoids the issue.


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## existentialist (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> They don’t give the views in work or push them to customers


Actually, the only way to be sure about this is to fire ALL your employees. I mean, even if they've not said anything on social media, they've probably all had bad thoughts about you from time to time. Get rid. And burn down the premises, too, to be on the safe side.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Actually, the only way to be sure about this is to fire ALL your employees. I mean, even if they've not said anything on social media, they've probably all had bad thoughts about you from time to time. Get rid. And burn down the premises, too, to be on the safe side.


And then make like thich quang duc


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## krtek a houby (May 13, 2021)

MadeInBedlam said:


> only hari-kiwi will suffice



or seppuku


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## nogojones (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> I love covid it worked wonders for my business dropped at least 50% this year


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## ruffneck23 (May 13, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> And then make like thich quang duc


Blimey


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## xenon (May 13, 2021)

Are you the real Mike De Scala of Ultrabeat?


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## nogojones (May 13, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Thinking back to my days as an employer, if I had an employee who was a Leaver or anti-vaxxer, I'd think "how the fuck did a moron get through the interviews?" I'd consider firing myself for inept hiring. Then I'd scrutinise every bit of the idiot's work and find enough incompetence to dismiss them. The OP must be in a low-skilled industry where any idiot can do the job. In which case I'd kill myself or burn it all down for the insurance.


That's more like it.


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## Border Reiver (May 13, 2021)

The law allows you to dismiss any employee without cause in the first two years of employment (so long as you do not dismiss for gender, race, pregnancy etc.) After that you must have a legal cause for dismissal and follow a set disciplinary procedure.


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## maomao (May 13, 2021)

xenon said:


> Are you the real Mike De Scala of Ultrabeat?


If it is, he's spelt his own name wrong.


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## A380 (May 13, 2021)

I think you should reward him. Whenever I buy a new car, and I regularly buy brand new quality German manufactured cars, or Audis, I always question the sales person about both dialectical materialism and anarcho syndicalism and if they fail to accord to my line I take my business elsewhere.


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## klang (May 13, 2021)

killer b said:


> no way this is making 5 pages


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2021)

littleseb never ever ever take a horse racing tip from killer b as it will invariably go awry


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## killer b (May 13, 2021)

I was hoping no-one would notice.


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## hitmouse (May 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> The law allows you to dismiss any employee without cause in the first two years of employment (so long as you do not dismiss for gender, race, pregnancy etc.) After that you must have a legal cause for dismissal and follow a set disciplinary procedure.


You're thinking of Scottish law there. The OP's shop is on a boat in international waters, so maritime law applies.


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## nogojones (May 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> The law allows you to dismiss any employee without cause in the first two years of employment (so long as you do not dismiss for gender, race, pregnancy etc.) After that you must have a legal cause for dismissal and follow a set disciplinary procedure.


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## teuchter (May 13, 2021)

killer b said:


> I was hoping no-one would notice.


I've come here specially to mention it and say it's what I predicted last night and am slightly disappointed someone else got in first.


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## killer b (May 13, 2021)

at least you're disappointed.


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## klang (May 13, 2021)

killer b said:


> I was hoping no-one would notice.



I was hoping you'd be right.


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## hitmouse (May 13, 2021)

littleseb said:


> I was hoping you were right.


Decent first two lines of a song there, what's the chorus?


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## klang (May 13, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Decent first two lines of a song there, what's the chorus?


You used to nail it all the time
For once you got it wrong
You used to guess the page count right
But it's still dragging on


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## Border Reiver (May 13, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> You're thinking of Scottish law there. The OP's shop is on a boat in international waters, so maritime law applies.


Employment law is not devolved.


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## keybored (May 13, 2021)

Now that _neotobyjug_ is here I'm upping my prediction to 50 pages.


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## JimW (May 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> Employment law is not devolved.


The quality of mercy is not strained, shrdlu.


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## MickiQ (May 13, 2021)

Assuming this isn't a troll (yes, yes, I know but lets just assume) I wouldn't think much of an employer who rather than bother learn the law upfront or consult an employment solicitor (or even just Google it) seeks advice on the subject from random strangers on the internet.
As a general principle firing people because of social media seems definitely iffy and a bit "American" to me.  If they're plastering confidential company secrets over the the internet or posting a video of them doing a ton in the company van on FB then yes firing is probably justified but what the hell has a person's personal opinions on subjects like politics, brexit, the middle east or anything else got to do with their employer?


hitmouse said:


> Oh yeah, this thread reminds me, I have an employee who puts beans on before cheese, am I within my rights to fire him for that?


Hell Yes, somethings just make me rethink my stance on the death penalty


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## kebabking (May 13, 2021)

keybored said:


> Now that _neotobyjug_ is here I'm upping my prediction to 50 pages.



I'll take that.

My wife's school - she's a deputy head - has _let go _a teacher on a fixed term contract at least in large part because of their behaviour on their personal social media,  and their linking it to the Schools social media.

There's other stuff as well, he's lazy, he's unprofessional, petulant, but it's the SM stuff that broke the camel's back.

And so - let the Games begin!


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## A380 (May 13, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> You're thinking of Scottish law there. The OP's shop is on a boat in international waters, so maritime law applies.


In that case not only is the OP allowed to sack the employee as Officer in Command under maritime law he is obliged to slap them, and if that doesn’t work shoot them. And that is, some kind of, fact...


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## Shippou-Sensei (May 13, 2021)

Business happy.


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## StoneRoad (May 13, 2021)

I've just had one of my lot chuck in the towel.
Letter states no reason, the verbal response to "Why?" was interesting, he's always been a conspiracy nut.
What became clear, the walk was because he's an anti-vaxxer / mask avoider and if he's going to be working in a shared space very close to other staff* (instead of outside / in a compartment by himself) then we've needed to insist he has to take precautions against transmission of covid. And he won't be forced to do either [he's also worked as a porter in a care home / elderly persons facility]
We do this with all visitors (clients, reps etc)
Note * Everyone else will have had at least one jab by the end of this week.


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## existentialist (May 13, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> You're thinking of Scottish law there. The OP's shop is on a boat in international waters, so maritime law applies.


Ah, right, so you can actually just shoot him? That makes sense.


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## Shippou-Sensei (May 13, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Ah, right, so you can actually just shoot him? That makes sense.


Only if he is losing you business.

Otherwise it's unfair discharge.


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## existentialist (May 13, 2021)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Only if he is losing you business.
> 
> Otherwise it's unfair discharge.


The trick is to get him to exhibit symptoms of mild hysteria, then he can be shot with impunity.


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## bellaozzydog (May 13, 2021)

Audi or BMW


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## mikedescala (May 13, 2021)

Just a follow up we had a chat this morning and I mentioned about social media posts and attending protests in a nice way and he said ye I do that and basically just for fun and something to do
I now have a line open and I mentioned that maybe that’s not good for his career and going forward if he was looking for a job that future employers could find this and take a dim view 
All went down well


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## muscovyduck (May 13, 2021)

yikes


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## muscovyduck (May 13, 2021)

raise your hand if you've ever had someone in a position of authority give you advice that something you're doing won't look good to employers because they think it's a clever way to threaten you without getting into trouble


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## StoneRoad (May 13, 2021)

+ puts up both hands +

(as it has happened more than once).


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## existentialist (May 13, 2021)

muscovyduck said:


> raise your hand if you've ever had someone in a position of authority give you advice that something you're doing won't look good to employers because they think it's a clever way to threaten you without getting into trouble


It generally doesn't end well, IME. There are times when I find it impossible not to take the piss, and that would be one of those times.


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## muscovyduck (May 13, 2021)

the real solution btw would have been that unless you're running something like a hospital or whatever he can use a fake name at work. This is a suprisingly common practice albeit more common in some places than others eg among women with customer service jobs. I was given the option once as "if you use your real name people from here will try and add you on social media". I also know self employed people who do this to keep their work and personal life (including activism) separate.

But you've shown your hand now so it's probably not an option. lol


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## discokermit (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Just a follow up we had a chat this morning and I mentioned about social media posts and attending protests in a nice way and he said ye I do that and basically just for fun and something to do
> I now have a line open and I mentioned that maybe that’s not good for his career and going forward if he was looking for a job that future employers could find this and take a dim view
> All went down well


u cunt.


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## mikedescala (May 13, 2021)

Nobody got fired so that’s good in my book 
We had a chat and I never mentioned the current position being under threat


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## Johnny Doe (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Nobody got fired so that’s good in my book
> We had a chat and I never mentioned the current position being under threat



Mike Descalated


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> Mike Descalated


it would be if he'd added a final sentence along the lines of 'i consider this matter closed' whereas i suspect he intends to revisit this matter at some point with a view to termination of the employee


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## bimble (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Just a follow up we had a chat this morning and I mentioned about social media posts and attending protests in a nice way and he said ye I do that and basically just for fun and something to do
> I now have a line open and I mentioned that maybe that’s not good for his career and going forward if he was looking for a job that future employers could find this and take a dim view
> All went down well


i don't believe you. I suspect you of being extremely clever and attempting to perpetrate a great ruse upon all of us fools here who may unwittingly be jeopardising our careers in sales by pointlessly going to protests for fun.


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## Puddy_Tat (May 13, 2021)

lizzieloo said:


> I got the boot the other day from a job I've been in for about ten years, it's a zero hours job and since January I've had no hours.
> 
> They just sent my P45, no letter, nothing else, just that.
> 
> Cunts.



i think it may be worth talking to union / citizens advice / ACAS

i'm a bit out of date with these things, but I can find some references online to zero hour workers still being entitled to proper redundancy process and possibly redundancy pay


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## littlebabyjesus (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Nobody got fired so that’s good in my book


You've still got your job?


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## teuchter (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Nobody got fired so that’s good in my book
> We had a chat and I never mentioned the current position being under threat


Well done. I'm glad you found a constructive way forward despite all the negativity directed at you from people here. It's that kind of negativity that makes many workplaces so unpleasant. So sad that the desire to score political points or express self righteous moral superiority over-rides basic human decency. But you have not allowed this kind of attitude to destroy your business and its profitability, the profitability that pays your staff's wages and puts the food on the table for their children who many here would have starve for the sake of ideology. Keep up the good work.


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## bimble (May 13, 2021)

Not up to your usual standard teuchter but the material you had to work with today was, admittedly, poor. 
You may stay but pull your socks up and have a haircut whilst you're at it.


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## ruffneck23 (May 13, 2021)

mikedescala said:


> Nobody got fired so that’s good in my book
> We had a chat and I never mentioned the current position being under threat


I find it particularly classy that you join a forum to discuss someone else's future which you hold in you hold in your hands, anonymously or not.

I wish the person concerned every success in finding work for someone more deserving.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 13, 2021)

Pretty well crafted beginning, weaving Brexit and covid denial in there, while the use of 'they' was a very nice touch. 

Feels like it could have done with a touch more conviction at the end, though. A temp suspension at the very least. The endings need more attention.


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## hitmouse (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> Not up to your usual standard teuchter but the material you had to work with today was, admittedly, poor.
> You may stay but pull your socks up and have a haircut whilst you're at it.


Oh, so are you the person who's in charge of setting teuchter's performance-related pay?


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## bimble (May 13, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Oh, so are you the person who's in charge of setting teuchter's performance-related pay?


Yes. He is not getting a bonus this year.


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> Yes. He is not getting a bonus this year.


I think he deserves the sack - a year of piss-poor performance sadly.


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## bimble (May 13, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I think he deserves the sack - a year of piss-poor performance sadly.


Are you offering to step in? Happy to discuss but must warn you in advance that some of the customers don't seem to appreciate the effort that goes into it and you have to bring your own nylon suit.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> Are you offering to step in? Happy to discuss but must warn you in advance that some of the customers don't seem to appreciate the effort that goes into it and you have to bring your own nylon suit.


'barleymow's nylon suit is the double of that worn by robert vaughn in the man from uncle


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## hitmouse (May 13, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I think he deserves the sack - a year of piss-poor performance sadly.


A sack, a shoulder bag, or a handbag?


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## killer b (May 13, 2021)

How are you measuring teucher's performance? From here it looks like he's hitting most his targets, and often knocks it out of the park. You've got some formulas all fucked on your spreadsheet or something.


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> Are you offering to step in? Happy to discuss but must warn you in advance that some of the customers don't seem to appreciate the effort that goes into it and you have to bring your own nylon suit.


Are you saying that teuchter has a fetish for nylon clothing?


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## cupid_stunt (May 13, 2021)

farmerbarleymow in his only nylon suit...


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## David Clapson (May 13, 2021)

Border Reiver said:


> The law allows you to dismiss any employee without cause in the first two years of employment


This is true. I've been trying to check it, because it's not mentioned in government advice which I linked to upthread. Seems like quite a serious omission. Here's some detail from an employment lawyer. It's a very long C&P, but at least it's clear. The source is Dismissing an Employee with less than 2 Years' Service | DavidsonMorris



> By law, you can usually dismiss an employee with less than 2 years service without the need to demonstrate a fair reason for the dismissal, and with no positive obligation to go through a fair disciplinary or dismissal procedure. This is because employees only gain statutory protection against unfair dismissal after accruing two years’ continuous service with the same employer.
> 
> It may be that you do not think an individual is the right fit for your company or organisation, or there could have been various conduct or capability issues that have raised legitimate concerns. For the employee with less than 2 years service, this may mean that their contract of employment can be lawfully terminated, without further investigation or prior warning, and without the need for you to defend either your decision to dismiss or the way in which this is handled.
> 
> ...


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## bimble (May 13, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> 'barleymow's nylon suit is the double of that worn by robert vaughn in the man from uncle
> 
> View attachment 268025


Thats a much nicer suit than teuchters


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> Thats a much nicer suit than teuchters


Fbm is much more stylish than he lets on


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I think he deserves the sack - a year of piss-poor performance sadly.


Another year...


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## seeformiles (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> Thats a much nicer suit than teuchters



Not as nice as mine though


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## teuchter (May 13, 2021)

"It's a zero hours contract, and we can't offer you any hours as such, but there is the possibility of a very generous annual bonus" said bimble when we negotiated the terms. Well, I've secured alternative funding from the Arts Council now, and I won't have to send them the stupid weekly postcount / KPI reports either and I can de-install the monitoring software and electronic tagging system. Like its says on their website they aim at "Supporting individuals who are cultural and creative practitioners and want to take time to focus on their creative development", very much unlike certain people here. So consider my notice given.


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## JimW (May 13, 2021)

It's all right, I've called teuchter into the office and made a series of thinly veiled threats about the future consequences of his forum postings if someone less magnanimous and enlightened than myself were to judge them, and after profuse contrition on his part it's been a happy ending - which was not one of the services I originally hired him to provide.


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

JimW said:


> It's all right, I've called teuchter into the office and made a series of thinly veiled threats about the future consequences of his forum postings if someone less magnanimous and enlightened than myself were to judge them, and after profuse contrition on his part it's been a happy ending - which was not one of the services I originally hired him to provide.


Hope you didn't get any static shocks from his nylon clothing.


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## JimW (May 13, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Hope you didn't get any static shocks from his nylon clothing.


Fortunately it's only everyone else he rubs up the wrong way.


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## bimble (May 13, 2021)

killer b said:


> How are you measuring teucher's performance? From here it looks like he's hitting most his targets, and often knocks it out of the park. You've got some formulas all fucked on your spreadsheet or something.


When I first mistakenly joined this website it was in order to shout about a very local issue, and teuchter, my then-neighbour, successfully drove me up the wall with his infuriatingness but he has consistently fallen short of achieving anything similar since.
It is possible that, on that particular issue, he may actually possibly have had a point, so in a way its not a fair comparison, but i'm the boss so whatever.


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## JuanTwoThree (May 13, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> random strangers


Strange randoms more like


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## teuchter (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> When I first mistakenly joined this website it was in order to shout about a very local issue, and teuchter, my then-neighbour, successfully drove me up the wall with his infuriatingness but he has consistently fallen short of achieving anything similar since.
> It is possible that, on that particular issue, he may actually possibly have had a point, so in a way its not a fair comparison, but i'm the boss so whatever.


Surely being so right in an argument, that a dissenter has to leave not just the neighbourhood but the city, is a notable enough achievement and one that should carry credits forward into subsequent years of success accounting.


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> he has consistently fallen short of achieving anything similar since


Should be his tagline really.  

(((teuchter)))


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## TopCat (May 13, 2021)

killer b said:


> no way this is making 5 pages


Ha!


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## killer b (May 13, 2021)

I rejoice in my occasional wrong calls. It just proves that even the best of us fuck up from time to time, and perhaps we should all be a little more magnanimous when we get things wrong.


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## TopCat (May 13, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Thinking back to my days as an employer, if I had an employee who was a Leaver or anti-vaxxer, I'd think "how the fuck did a moron get through the interviews?" I'd consider firing myself for inept hiring. Then I'd scrutinise every bit of the idiot's work and find enough incompetence to dismiss them. The OP must be in a low-skilled industry where any idiot can do the job. In which case I'd kill myself or burn it all down for the insurance.


You would have tried to sack staff for voting leave? Step away from recruitment please.


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## farmerbarleymow (May 13, 2021)

killer b said:


> It just proves that even the best of us fuck up from time to time, and perhaps we should all be a little more magnanimous when we get things wrong.


Like teuchter?


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## TopCat (May 13, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> No customer knows or cares what their car salesman does at the weekend or thinks about COVID or brexit.


If there was known BNP in a motorcycle or car repair shop I would not use them.


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## A380 (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> When I first mistakenly joined this website it was in order to shout about a very local issue, and teuchter, my then-neighbour, successfully drove me up the wall with his infuriatingness but he has consistently fallen short of achieving anything similar since.
> It is possible that, on that particular issue, he may actually possibly have had a point, so in a way its not a fair comparison, but i'm the boss so whatever.



I'm glad you are in charge of him. He appears to have latched himself on to me as sense of humour coach, and someone to help him over come his bizarre, yet deep seated and often mentioned fear of Moomins. Might I suggest you set him a SMART action plan (three months) to increase his knowledge in relation to women having elbows.


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## planetgeli (May 13, 2021)

bimble said:


> When I first mistakenly joined this website it was in order to shout about a very local issue,



Why did you mistakenly join a second time?


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## bimble (May 13, 2021)

planetgeli said:


> Why did you mistakenly join a second time?


You know the 12 step thing about accepting the things you cannot change? it was a bit like that.


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## two sheds (May 14, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> Ignore this clown. Obviously never heard of performance-related pay. Probably because performance is something only other people do.


Yep I've heard of piece work, too, which is the ultimate in "performance-related pay". 

And (as in this case) high-pressure sales techniques. If your rent, or Jemima's private school term fees (depending on which end of the scale you're on), is decided by commission then of course your sales force is going to sell customers any old shit whether they need it or not. I'd prefer to see peoples' work determined by quality rather than rushed shit because they're on commission.


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## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2021)

kebabking said:


> I'll take that.
> 
> My wife's school - she's a deputy head - has _let go _a teacher on a fixed term contract at least in large part because of their behaviour on their personal social media,  and their linking it to the Schools social media.
> 
> ...


The key bit there is 'linked to the School's social media'. If his social media is stand-alone toxic batshittery, it's of no concern to the employer.

Plus, the employer should have a social media policy spelling out if access is allowed/not allowed during work hours (Facebook may not be allowed but LinkedIn is) and if the disciplinary policy applies  to breaches (spoiler alert: it usually does).

mikedescala you pay this guy to do a job, which you say he's doing well and is punctual. You don't have to like him on a personal level, just be professional with him.

Also, you seem to be saying other people are telling you about his social media posts, not that you've seen them yourself. I strongly recommend you rise about second hand gossip and shut this shit down. You're the owner. You set the standard of behaviour.


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## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> This is true. I've been trying to check it, because it's not mentioned in government advice which I linked to upthread. Seems like quite a serious omission. Here's some detail from an employment lawyer. It's a very long C&P, but at least it's clear. The source is Dismissing an Employee with less than 2 Years' Service | DavidsonMorris


Most employers will use a probation period to determine if someone is suited for the role. The longer it goes on the harder it may be to justify letting someone go.


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## telbert (Jun 11, 2021)

Only read the first page but I think you need prison you cunt. I may be wrong.


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