# Google's 'Android' mobile OS: news and G1 launch



## editor (Nov 5, 2007)

Speculation is rife. Will it be a phone or just a set of Google phone apps?

Announcement later today


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## Buddy Bradley (Nov 5, 2007)

Phone - there's been enough leaks from various handset manufacturers in Korea or wherever it was.


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## jæd (Nov 5, 2007)

Some kind of Linux Phone o/s, apparently...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 5, 2007)

this is going ot be like bloody gmail isn't it where ti turns out google don't own the rights tot he Gphone brand name (they don't) and they'll end up calling it summit stoopid...


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2007)

Who knows, who cares, what gives, etc?

I dunno, can't see it being an actual phone just a phone with tons of Google stuff (GStuff?) on it...


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## Detroit City (Nov 5, 2007)

now everyone's gonna bleedin' want their own X-Phone


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2007)

Any news on this yet?


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## fen_boy (Nov 5, 2007)

http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/pressrel/20071105_mobile_open.html

It's an OS called Android - open source too


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## Kanda (Nov 5, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Any news on this yet?



Yup... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7078921.stm

It's an OS, not a Phone.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2007)

So I was, partially, right then, no phone just software for a phone...


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## fen_boy (Nov 5, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> So I was, partially, right then, no phone just software for a phone...



software for many phones


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2007)

fen_boy said:
			
		

> software for many phones



Pedant.


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## fen_boy (Nov 5, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Pedant.



I meant many different brands of phone, but yes I am a pedant


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## editor (Nov 5, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Who knows, who cares, what gives, etc?


Who cares?!!

When Google sneezes, just about the entire the technology world gets a dollop of G-snot,  so I'd say it's pretty damn important to talk about what they're up to.

My initial reaction to this announcement is that it's going to provide an almighty kick up the backside to the mobile industry with several big brands already signed up and free to use their new open source OS .

I suspect it's going to be a bit of a "yowch" for Palm and a few others too.


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## DJ Bigga (Nov 5, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Who cares?!!
> 
> When Google sneezes, just about the entire the technology world gets a dollop of G-snot,  so I'd say it's pretty damn important to talk about what they're up to.
> 
> ...



Nokia was way ahead of the game with their Maemo platform for ITs


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## Gromit (Nov 5, 2007)

I never had the aPhone and they are on I and G already 

I'll probably wait for the zPhone. At least it can't go out of fashion then as they'll have run out of letters.


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## Gromit (Nov 5, 2007)

Ah its more ambitious than a gPhone. They hope to get google on everyone's phone and are offering an open platform towards these ends.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Who cares?!!
> 
> When Google sneezes, just about the entire the technology world gets a dollop of G-snot,  so I'd say it's pretty damn important to talk about what they're up to.
> 
> ...


Sure I concede the effect will be big amongst the chattering tech classes, but what will the average person in the street think? Will they even have a clue that their phone is now about to be G'd up 2 da MaX!?

Seriously outside the tech forums, the commenters wanking off and us on this forum who really gives a fuck?


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## editor (Nov 5, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Sure I concede the effect will be big amongst the chattering tech classes, but what will the average person in the street think? Will they even have a clue that their phone is now about to be G'd up 2 da MaX!


You don't seem to understand how big this announcement is. There are a huge number of industry big players involved, all looking to develop for this new platform. It's potentially the biggest change in the mobile market for years and may end up crushing the dominance of Microsoft, Palm, RIM and Apple.






			
				Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Seriously outside the tech forums, the commenters wanking off and us on this forum who really gives a fuck?


Seeing as there's a good chance that the  'average person in the street' will end up using a phone powered by this new OS, I'd say it's of general interest. It's certainly as newsworthy as an iPhone launch. More so, if you ask me.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 5, 2007)

You haven't answered any of my questions, the main one being; what will the average person think? 

If I phone a family member or my mates and start blathering on about this I doubt very much any of them would take much interest yet they all have heard of the iPhone and find it quite cool/interesting etc.

I understand full well (I can't not given my very obvious interest in this are!) how big this is on one level but do you understand how irrelevant it is on another more day to day level?


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## editor (Nov 5, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> You haven't answered any of my questions, the main one being; what will the average person think?


I've no idea what the average person will 'think' and neither have you, but it's quite likely that the Google OS will end up playing a part in quite a few people's lives.






			
				Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> I understand full well (I can't not given my very obvious interest in this are!) how big this is on one level but do you understand how irrelevant it is on another more day to day level?


What point are you trying to make here? Things don't have to be of an earth shattering nature to make an interesting topic of discussion in a techie forum like this.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 5, 2007)

i think it's as relevant as 95 coming out before os2 actually in terms of the next 10 years of computing and no the average people might not be intrested in it at present.  they weren't intrested in microsoft or apple initially or google for that matter... but the average person does get hit by the bow wave of these changes and then it does impact on their lives.  

So as it happens this fingers crossed will be the end of M$ they simply cannot compete with google long term.  particularlly not with a closed source system.  imagine it googles day of code month of code and billions on nix'ed up people who's os does everything that windows does but is safer online and secure and has no viruses... hmmmm.... people have to upgrade in the next 3 years anyways or will be barracked into it as their machines get slower the net get's faster and they wear out and are replaced now either you can go for the windows system but have to relearn it, again we aren't talking teccie spods like us here who can see that changed icons and a wizzy search do not alter the underlying architeture one jot, all the average suer si going to see is that it looks different and is more difficult to use and seems to have loads of really annoying popups which there doesn't seem to be a way of turning off. 

Or they learn a mac, though this is unlikely due to the cost differnetial between ooo i can get a laptop made by kids in china for 30 p from hell computors or i can buy the apple which seems to have less ram and less hard drive space and i have only ever seen the apple montiors never what the computors look like and they are way to fat i want a flat screen etc... 

Or google, oh it's just a google machine i know google it's simple, it only has 57 words on the front screen i have a gmail and they did that ever so nice toolbar which blocks those popups and they told me about some other things... it looks simple... why can't my old machine look like this?  will it let me look at my email?  and my old documents?

It will... 

and at that point my friend they will have them eatting out of their hands...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 5, 2007)

awr mate that was posted beofre even reading the who's who... 





> Aplix, Ascender Corporation, Audience, Broadcom, China Mobile, eBay, Esmertec, Google, HTC, Intel, KDDI, LivingImage, LG, Marvell, Motorola, NMS Communications, Noser, NTT DoCoMo, Inc., Nuance, Nvidia, PacketVideo, Qualcomm, Samsung, SiRF, SkyPop, SONiVOX, Sprint Nextel, Synaptics, TAT - The Astonishing Tribe, Telecom Italia, Telefónica, Texas Instruments, T-Mobile, Wind River.



see that's the list of people who are no longer happy at playing silly buggers to M$...


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## editor (Nov 5, 2007)

If anyone was in any doubt about how important this is, look at the names: HTC, LG, Motorola, eBay (Skype), Sprint, Intel, China Mobile, Samsung etc, etc.

These are global industry leaders and if they're fully behind a free, open source Google OS ('Android'), Microsoft have got to be shitting themselves (as should Palm, RIM, Apple etc etc).


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## jayeola (Nov 5, 2007)

I guess that the biggest "feature" or thing that Google  will bring to the table will be --search--. Searching for contacts, numbers, sms or what ever is on your phone. As phones get more complicated or are able to do more there will be more to search. 

There are chaps at work that refuse to use any other facility than google desktop. Some poor bloke has 20k+ of emails and god know how many files.

Maybe even linking your phone's "account" to a desktop or gmail account.



> Google's Android software will be provided to handset makers free of charge and could lead to a price war for operating system licenses and potentially cheaper handsets.



... and advertising. just a leeedle bit ;-)

Edited to ad:-


> A development tool kit for working on the new platform will be released next week.



 bandwidth time


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## editor (Nov 5, 2007)

Engadget are right on the money here: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/05/palm-assimilate-with-android-or-die/


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## scott_forester (Nov 5, 2007)

I wonder how this affects MSs play into the Unfied Comms market?

I can't see Avaya or Cisco being that bothered about using an open source software to achieve the true UC architecture - MS I can.


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## editor (Nov 5, 2007)

Great quote from some wag on Engadget:



> Oh my god. These extremely long letters to Palm are the absolute best. Its like reading about one of those horrible celebrity break-ups where they keep trying to get back together and then break up again and air all the dirty laundry in court.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 5, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> If anyone was in any doubt about how important this is, look at the names: HTC, LG, Motorola, eBay (Skype), Sprint, Intel, China Mobile, Samsung etc, etc.
> 
> These are global industry leaders and if they're fully behind a free, open source Google OS ('Android'), Microsoft have got to be shitting themselves (as should Palm, RIM, Apple etc etc).


we agree  

jesus have you been hit by a firework?

have I?


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## jæd (Nov 6, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Engadget are right on the money here: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/05/palm-assimilate-with-android-or-die/



Personally I'd much rather Palm did their own thing... I'm guessing it will be nice to have a choice of phone o/s types, rather than the Google/Borg-phone... Choice is always good...! 

(I also don't like the assumption that Engadget knows everything about the SmartPhone market...)


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## Radar (Nov 6, 2007)

jæd said:
			
		

> (I also don't like the assumption that Engadget knows everything about the SmartPhone market...)


I don't know about that, but their summary of the recent history of Palm is pretty much on the ball.

And going with the choice mantra, then Palm should consider developing a garnet overlay for android if they want to keep up the waning popularity of palm os and try and keep their 3rd party devs on board.  

Palm have consistently ponced about with unwanted products like the Lifedrive, released meh products like the Z22 & Centro, announced then yanked the foleo and have pissed their loyal dev base off almost to the point of extinction. We've seen two stabs at the new linux based wonderOS (ALP, then whatever the current effort is called) and still nothing concrete.

Look at visualit, they used to be a UK palm software house. Now they have more titles released under Windows Mobile than palmOS, and of all the PDAs shown on their home page running palmOS titles  not one of them can still be bought new in the shops (or even directly from Palm)


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Engadget are right on the money here: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/05/palm-assimilate-with-android-or-die/



Heh that's great it's basically one long 'Palm are numnuts' piece! Time for that hostile takeover I think, Palm are just too stupid to be left to their own devices...


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## jæd (Nov 6, 2007)

Radar said:
			
		

> I don't know about that, but their summary of the recent history of Palm is pretty much on the ball.
> 
> And going with the choice mantra, then Palm should consider developing a garnet overlay for android if they want to keep up the waning popularity of palm os and try and keep their 3rd party devs on board.
> 
> ...



Well, this (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/E1DD097F-EE28-4FBA-A1F2-D831512E423F.html) has an interesting point that listening to industry pundits has had a bad effect on Palm... (Though its not really known how much was listened to, and how much was Palm's fault)


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## editor (Nov 6, 2007)

Radar said:
			
		

> Palm have consistently ponced about with unwanted products like the Lifedrive, released meh products like the Z22 & Centro


I disagree, The Lifedrive was an interesting concept that Palm failed to follow up, while I think that the Centro is a fantastic phone for the price. 

It may not hold so much appeal to geeks and tech fans, but to the average US punter they'll be getting a small, attractive phone with a touchscreen, better screen res than any of its competitors, access to zillions of software titles, full keyboard, TV, video, multimedia abilities and more over a fast network.

But Palm's faffing about with the Foleo and the years of OS indecision/mind-changing has seriously hampered the platform.


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## jayeola (Nov 6, 2007)

I know that I'm going to get a Centro. Palm has always been a decent OS for me over the years. Only other devices that cam close where the Psions, but they were not smart phones.


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## Xanadu (Nov 6, 2007)

jayeola said:
			
		

> I know that I'm going to get a Centro. Palm has always been a decent OS for me over the years. Only other devices that cam close where the Psions, but they were not smart phones.



The psion OS (EPOC) evolved into Symbian, which is in use on some nokia and sony ericsson phones now.


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## wtfftw (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm rather excited about all this.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 6, 2007)

<waves goodbye to the iphone and windows mobile>

The takeover of the world by Google continues


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2007)

beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

> <waves goodbye to the iphone and windows mobile>
> 
> The takeover of the world by Google continues



Until Facebook becomes an OS and release their fPhone...


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 6, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Until Facebook becomes an OS and release their fPhone...


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2007)

beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

>



Heh you think I'm joking?


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## rhod (Nov 6, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Microsoft have got to be shitting themselves



Too right! Once people are used to using the Google phone OS, it's not a huge leap to consider using a google OS on a full pc. The distinction becomes even smaller as devices "converge".

Could Google give linux the clout it needs to fiinally go mainstream - even if many of its users don't realise they are using linux !?


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2007)

Thinking about it, I'd find it quite amusing if Facebook bought Palm...


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2007)

John C Dvorak isn't impressed:



> Google finally announced that it would release something it calls the Open Handset
> 
> Alliance, and 34 companies are already on board! This is the Google phone initiative we've been hearing about. The Google phone is coming!
> 
> ...


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## scott_forester (Nov 6, 2007)

rhod said:
			
		

> Too right! Once people are used to using the Google phone OS, it's not a huge leap to consider using a google OS on a full pc. The distinction becomes even smaller as devices "converge".
> 
> Could Google give linux the clout it needs to fiinally go mainstream - even if many of its users don't realise they are using linux !?



I think it's a massive leap from a device OS to what MS have planned with things like OCS. I have to ask as a e61 user I don't care what the OS is it's what the phone can do that I'm more bothered about, do people really care what the OS is? 

With Nokia phones I've never had a problem, I've tried others but always gone back - they just do good phones.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 6, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> John C Dvorak isn't impressed:


he's bitter that John C Qwerty has better keyboard sales...


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2007)

scott_forester said:
			
		

> do people really care what the OS is?



Outside the industry and people like us? Can't see that many people do.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 7, 2007)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> he's bitter that John C Qwerty has better keyboard sales...


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## editor (Nov 7, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Outside the industry and people like us? Can't see that many people do.


What, you mean like people weren't interested in the recent US iPhone launch?

That new OS sure seemed to get a lot of people interested. Why would it be any different for a Google phone? After all, they're as famous - if not far more so - than Apple.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 7, 2007)

steady i think apple are a touch more famous than google, their abiltiy to self publise not with standing...


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 7, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> What, you mean like people weren't interested in the recent US iPhone launch?





He said *Operating System*. And no I don't think normal people sit there and go "ooh check out the iPhone's kick ass OS, it's a cut down version of the one they use in their Macs dontcha know?". They go, "whoa check out the touch screen, and man it's a fucking iPod too!?" Which was precisely my point earlier.

If you aint getting that Ed I'm afraid you'll just have agree to disagree with me, really can't be fucked to go round and round and circles over this.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 7, 2007)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> steady i think apple are a touch more famous than google, their abiltiy to self publise not with standing...



There was something quite interesting Dvorak said in his piece, he said that Google aren't a charismatic company, I think he's really hit on something there...not quite sure what but you know...er...!


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 7, 2007)

google aren't charismatic at all no, they are actually quite sinister.  and yet i cannot see what it is that makes me feel utter distaste about them...


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## editor (Nov 7, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> He said Operating System. And no I don't think normal people sit there and go "ooh check out the iPhone's kick ass OS, it's a cut down version of the one they use in their Macs dontcha know?". They go, "whoa check out the touch screen, and man it's a fucking iPod too!?" Which was precisely my point earlier.


You really don't think people have been getting very excited by the iPhones funky interface?

_Really?
_
You don't think people will get very excited if a phone comes out that can do all  that cool Google & partners stuff - chat, maps, search with desktop integration, PIM integration, group scheduling, spreadsheets, picasa, skype, blogging etc  - in an easy to use package that costs less than Apple and Microsoft?

_Really?_

Googlemaps is already one of the best mobile apps. What's next?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 7, 2007)

no.

sadly it'll look shit and that's all anyone cares about.  This is the same mistake 3 made.  people in europe at least don't want wizzy things on their phone. in order for them to work then need to have a big screen and if they have a big screen they are cumbersome and useless for stuffing in your pocket.  so by and large everyone texts... and that's all they really want to do with their phone on the whole is to be able to say hullo mum i'm on top of a mountain/in a balloon/I'm calling you from a plane ...we've been hijacked...i don't think we getting out of this alive... (toofar??) or to send a text whcih say's i wub you/dual off/your fired/we have your wife. if you ever want to see her alive again bring one million in sterling, small denominations:  meet us at 10pm behind the old steam house on hi (charchter limit 160...).

people don't give a flying fuck about 99% of the features on their phone if they can talk and text that's all they care about.  if it happens to work as an cheapo digital camera then all the better.  that and it has to look cool, sexy and expensive.

It won't. and it won't be picked up on.


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## editor (Nov 7, 2007)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> people don't give a flying fuck about 99% of the features on their phone if they can talk and text that's all they care about.  if it happens to work as an cheapo digital camera then all the better.  that and it has to look cool, sexy and expensive.
> 
> It won't. and it won't be picked up on.


Have you used Googlemaps on a decent mobile? Have you used the location based services on Vodafone?

You might be surprised to find that people are growing to like having such powerful apps on their phones and there's a whole load more genuinely useful stuff on the horizon.


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## jayeola (Nov 7, 2007)

to throw my hat into the ring i think it's a bit of both. There -will- be ppl that will "get it" and immediately be able to find a use for the "google OS", what ever it will do. there may even be a small percentage of folks that actually look forward to trying it out just for the sake of it.

however, phones in the far east kick arse. that market always seems to be way ahead of yerp. can't remember where, but i read that folk in asia use thier phones for emails as much as we do for text. those chaps may see the light for all of this google stuff.

also dem yanks are "catching up" in that people are finally leaving thier pagers at home, now that the major carriers have developed.

a phone is still a phone and it has got to be bloody good for most people to be "playing with it all day".
 - reception
 - form factor
 - utilities


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 7, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Have you used Googlemaps on a decent mobile? Have you used the location based services on Vodafone?
> 
> You might be surprised to find that people are growing to like having such powerful apps on their phones and there's a whole load more genuinely useful stuff on the horizon.


these changes are 10 years aways though.  before it becomes common place and yes i have used the services unfortunatly pda/smartphone technology in order for it to be any good at present needs to be on a big screen you can't escape that fact.  and you are always going to be limited by the size factor. 

Even if you could make a phone which is merely the size of the screen itself it would still be cumbersome. 

some people might find them convinent but then those people are proably IT literate.  go into any number of offices today and you will come across a stunning level of IT illiterate people.  Usually the one who can change the printer toner use ctrl v and ctrl atl del is an IT god. and there's a darn sight more of them out there than people using these functions yet.


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## scott_forester (Nov 7, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> What, you mean like people weren't interested in the recent US iPhone launch?
> 
> That new OS sure seemed to get a lot of people interested. Why would it be any different for a Google phone? After all, they're as famous - if not far more so - than Apple.



Do you not think it was the 'coolness' of the gadget (personally  I've played with one and it's too much for me, but then I'm getting old) more than people thinking it was a smashing OS?


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## jæd (Nov 7, 2007)

scott_forester said:
			
		

> Do you not think it was the 'coolness' of the gadget (personally  I've played with one and it's too much for me, but then I'm getting old) more than people thinking it was a smashing OS?



Well... Most people don't get excited by a new O/s, even for a phone... Though they do get excited for actual shiny-shiny hardware...


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## jæd (Nov 7, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> There was something quite interesting Dvorak said in his piece, he said that Google aren't a charismatic company, I think he's really hit on something there...not quite sure what but you know...er...!



Google used to be a place that sounded exciting... Now, after talking to Google Engineers it just sounds like any other large company with typical large-company procedures... I've seriosuly gone off wanting to work there...


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## wtfftw (Nov 7, 2007)

jæd said:
			
		

> Well... Most people don't get excited by a new O/s, even for a phone... Though they do get excited for actual shiny-shiny hardware...


It needs substance for a lasting relationship though...  



I reckon average joe isn't going to be too fussed that it's a different OS but when it comes to actually being able to do things. yeaah. Look how phones as mp3 players have taken off.


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## editor (Nov 7, 2007)

scott_forester said:
			
		

> Do you not think it was the 'coolness' of the gadget (personally  I've played with one and it's too much for me, but then I'm getting old) more than people thinking it was a smashing OS?


Take a look at the advertising: the 'coolness' of the gadget is partly about its look but mainly all about its groovy interface, the finger control, the scrolling album art, the zoom in controls etc etc.

Do you think people would be half as excited if it was Windows Mobile 6 in there?


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## jæd (Nov 7, 2007)

drag0n said:
			
		

> I reckon average joe isn't going to be too fussed that it's a different OS but when it comes to actually being able to do things. yeaah. Look how phones as mp3 players have taken off.



Yes... This explains why Blackberrys are so popular. The UI used to be clunky as hell, but they did the job well. People like flashy gizmos, but unless they actually work they drop them.

From what I've seen the iPhone is a flashy gizmo that works nicely. (for people who don't want a spoddy phone)

Hopefully, the Google Phone o/s will be a spoddy phone that works in non-spoddy ways...


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2007)

More on the Android with videos demoing it: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/12/googles-android-os-early-look-sdk-now-available/


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## jæd (Nov 13, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> More on the Android with videos demoing it: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/12/googles-android-os-early-look-sdk-now-available/



Interesting that they're using Java / Python, but for a phone its probably easiest...  (Expect several zillion "Java is tooo slooow" slashdot posts)


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## Bonfirelight (Nov 13, 2007)

i've just though of a brilliant idea to get round the 'screen vs cumbersome' mobile phone problem!

How can i make money from it?


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## Fez909 (Nov 13, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Thinking about it, I'd find it quite amusing if Facebook bought Palm...


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## Fez909 (Nov 13, 2007)

Bonfirelight said:
			
		

> i've just though of a brilliant idea to get round the 'screen vs cumbersome' mobile phone problem!
> 
> How can i make money from it?



http://inventors.about.com/od/firststeps/a/lesson_money.htm


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2007)

Fez909 said:
			
		

>


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## scott_forester (Nov 13, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Take a look at the advertising: the 'coolness' of the gadget is partly about its look but mainly all about its groovy interface, the finger control, the scrolling album art, the zoom in controls etc etc.
> 
> Do you think people would be half as excited if it was Windows Mobile 6 in there?



Well I think the iphone has the march because it's innovative and also has the whole ipod brand behind it. I doubt if Nokia released the same think it'd get so much attention. 

If people buy phones because they look nice and have a great interface doesn't a common OS for the second tier handset providers provide it's own issues? For example if you were picking between two handsets that had identical interfaces but where by two manufacturers wouldn't that pretty much nail them to the price difference. I'm sure these vendors will all customise it do it's looks different but I'm not sure it'll have the impact on the market some suggest, only time will tell I guess. One things for sure it'll be good for people like us who buy them.


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## Bonfirelight (Nov 13, 2007)

Fez909 said:
			
		

> http://inventors.about.com/od/firststeps/a/lesson_money.htm



cheers. that looks like far too much hassle though 

I'm retiring from the inventing business.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 13, 2007)

scott_forester said:
			
		

> Well I think the iphone has the march because it's innovative and also has the whole ipod brand behind it. I doubt if Nokia released the same think it'd get so much attention.
> 
> If people buy phones because they look nice and have a great interface doesn't a common OS for the second tier handset providers provide it's own issues? For example if you were picking between two handsets that had identical interfaces but where by two manufacturers wouldn't that pretty much nail them to the price difference. I'm sure these vendors will all customise it do it's looks different but I'm not sure it'll have the impact on the market some suggest, only time will tell I guess. One things for sure it'll be good for people like us who buy them.


it beign an os OS then it's likely that there would only be alimited am ount of customiseation you could do before people then hacked it the way they wanted as with all os type projects...


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2007)

The Android OS vids look way slick: http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/11/12/google.android.sdk/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> The Android OS vids look way slick: http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/11/12/google.android.sdk/



Yeah they do.


----------



## jayeola (Nov 13, 2007)

I've got a copy of the SDK. Don't know any java but I'm passing it onto a friend of mine....


----------



## xenon (Nov 13, 2007)

Well as someone who uses Nuance Talx, this could greatly increase the number of handsets I can use it on. As well as hopefully, it working with other Android apps. A more useable browser would be top of my wants rather than the partially useable one on my N70.


----------



## xenon (Nov 13, 2007)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> these changes are 10 years aways though.  before it becomes common place and yes i have used the services unfortunatly pda/smartphone technology in order for it to be any good at present needs to be on a big screen you can't escape that fact.  and you are always going to be limited by the size factor.
> 
> Even if you could make a phone which is merely the size of the screen itself it would still be cumbersome.
> 
> some people might find them convinent but then those people are proably IT literate.  go into any number of offices today and you will come across a stunning level of IT illiterate people.  Usually the one who can change the printer toner use ctrl v and ctrl atl del is an IT god. and there's a darn sight more of them out there than people using these functions yet.



Maybe some sort of Blue Tooth glasses wtih a heads up display. I note you can get those I Glasses on which you can watch films. Blue Tooth probably not got the bandwidth or speed but you get the idea.


----------



## scott_forester (Nov 13, 2007)

xenon said:
			
		

> Well as someone who uses Nuance Talx, this could greatly increase the number of handsets I can use it on. As well as hopefully, it working with other Android apps. A more useable browser would be top of my wants rather than the partially useable one on my N70.




I've seen Nuance used to convert messenger clients into voice to a mobile phone, you text they hear voice, they speak you get text.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 13, 2007)

xenon said:
			
		

> Well as someone who uses Nuance Talx, this could greatly increase the number of handsets I can use it on. As well as hopefully, it working with other Android apps. A more useable browser would be top of my wants rather than the partially useable one on my N70.



Try Opera mini, it loads better. First piece of software I've ever paid for, worked out about £12 (but you can download a 30 day trial). Reformats pages lots better, loads pages faster and keyboard shortcuts make browsing easier. Only thing it cant do that the nokia one can do is switch from wireless to 3g halfway through a session, but its minor niggle compared to its increase usability.


----------



## mauvais (Nov 13, 2007)

Google have kicked Sun's arse by getting around the license restrictions on Java  - http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/linotype/news/110/


----------



## xenon (Nov 13, 2007)

Opera mini. Does that run on Symbion? Will have a look later. Bit rettasent about installing stuff on the phone at the moment but will read up.

Will be watching to see what happens with stuff for Android though.


----------



## gorski (Nov 14, 2007)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> google aren't charismatic at all no, they are actually quite sinister.  and yet i cannot see what it is that makes me feel utter distaste about them...



Quite right, too, as one of their main men used to work for the US "intelligence services"...

Mind, unlike Yahoo they didn't [apparently] co-operate with the Chinese Gov and give them their records, which btw were used to convict people and jail them.... [see Amnesty International website under China, for instance...] "Not even with the US one?" would be my Q...

Oh, what would be a good alternative then? [Now, that sucks!]


----------



## gorski (Nov 14, 2007)

xenon said:
			
		

> Opera mini. Does that run on Symbion? Will have a look later.



It does and well - but you must pay...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2007)

*Google For iPhone: Android’s Beta-Test?*

Interesting piece here about whether Google are using the iPhone and its users as beta testers for its coming Android based devices:



> In addition Google have developed a specific application to allow YouTube videos to be streamed to the iPhone – to get around the absence of Flash on the iPhone.
> 
> It is understandable how the iPhone platform has grabbed the imagination of Google’s employees – it’s the internet in your pocket, with a clean, intuitive interface, and with Eric Schmidt* at the helm it can’t be hard to convince your manager to let you spend your 20% on iPhone related applications. In fact, iPhone-mania at Google has even got Europe’s favorite long-tail cartographer, Ed Parsons dumping his almost new Nokia N95 for an iPhone – even though the latter doesn’t have built-in GPS!
> 
> So maybe there’s another another reason. Google are gaining considerable experience developing its mobile services for its new platform – Android. But look a little closer. The iPhone and Android share the common foundations in the open source browser WebKit


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2007)

First reports are that Android is well flaky and miles away from becoming a stable release.


----------



## jæd (Dec 20, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> First reports are that Android is well flaky and miles away from becoming a stable release.



This being the SDK, rather than the actual o/s...


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2007)

jæd said:
			
		

> This being the SDK, rather than the actual o/s...





> Looks like Google doesn't have the Midas touch after all. According to reports, a sizable number of developers who've been working with the SDK for Google's Linux-based Android platform say it is full of bugs and often doesn't work at all.
> 
> It is not atypical for there to be bugs in new software. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that a large number of Android developers are encountering serious coding errors in the SDK. It cites the experiences of one developer, Adam MacBeth, who has been unable to get an application working in Android after working on it for weeks.
> 
> Said MacBeth: "Functionality is not there, is poorly documented or just doesn't work. It's clearly not ready for prime time."


http://informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/12/developers_andr.html


----------



## jæd (Dec 20, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> http://informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/12/developers_andr.html



And...?    As I said this the SDK, not the released o/s. And tbh its not the first time Google have released resources like this that were buggy. Hopefully there will be another release soon...

This is annoying at best and wouldn't be the first time a company has released an SDK that has bits missing... (NDA's unfortunatly protecting the guility... Gggrrrr...! )


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> First reports are that Android is well flaky and miles away from becoming a stable release.



I doubt anybody making something for the first time expects perfection tbf...


----------



## jæd (Dec 20, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> I doubt anybody making something for the first time expects perfection tbf...



Apart from Apple fanboys... If the Apple SDK is the same, expect "Apple SUX lol..." all over the Internet...


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> I doubt anybody making something for the first time expects perfection tbf...


No, but a lot of developers have been expressing surprise about just how rough it is, probably because Google normally sets such high standards.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2007)

jæd said:
			
		

> Apart from Apple fanboys... If the Apple SDK is the same, expect "Apple SUX lol..." all over the Internet...


True but Google fanboys (if there exists such a thing) are nowhere near as obssesive about Google or its products as Apple one's. 

Apple fanboys can often look so blasted smug they're almost begging for ridicule...


----------



## jæd (Dec 20, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> ...because Google normally sets such high standards.



Heh... What a naive impression of Google you have...!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2007)

jæd said:
			
		

> Heh... What a naive impression of Google you have...!



I wouldn't say naive but that did puzzle me a bit.


----------



## jæd (Dec 20, 2007)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> I wouldn't say naive but that did puzzle me a bit.



I tend to deal with Google a *lot*. So well.. I (and the people I work with) have a different view of them then most people. But anything I could mention would be under various NDAs...   Personally I don't think they're all they're cracked up to be, etc...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2007)

jæd said:
			
		

> I tend to deal with Google a *lot*. So well.. I (and the people I work with) have a different view of them then most people. *But anything I could mention would be under various NDAs... *  Personally I don't think they're all they're cracked up to be, etc...



There's always PMs.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2008)

Looks like Android-running phones might start shipping as early as late summer or early Autumn this year.

I'm really excited by this new phone OS: with the superb Googlemaps app, Google has already shown that it can produce class leading programs and with over 30 companies joining the Open Handset Alliance, there could be some real innovation on the horizon.

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9901954-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1001_3-0-5


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 24, 2008)

I read recently that Google were looking at buying Motorola, on the basis that it would be easier to buy a handset OEM with a strong far East manufacturing outsource capability than push Android into larger mfrs. That would be quite interesting.

Actually, I probably said this elsewhere in the thread, didn't realise it was a bump. No matter, I'll keep repeating it until Google buys an OEM and then bump it again for kudos.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Actually, I probably said this elsewhere in the thread, didn't realise it was a bump. No matter, I'll keep repeating it until Google buys an OEM and then bump it again for kudos.


But then I'll go back and edit one of my posts before so it looks like I said it first and you're some kind of copycat nutter  

I think the open source Android OS is real big news for the mobile world - way bigger than the iPhone, despite the hype.


----------



## lobster (Mar 24, 2008)

> When will we see more code released under open source licenses?
> 
> Over time, more of the code that makes up Android will be released, but at this point, we have been concentrating on shipping an SDK that helps application developers get started. In short: Stay tuned.



http://code.google.com/android/kb/licensingandoss.html

So its proprietary to keep Google in control of the platform, how easily people are fooled when they hear open source .


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2008)

lobster said:


> http://code.google.com/android/kb/licensingandoss.html
> 
> So its proprietary to keep Google in control of the platform, how easily people are fooled when they hear open source .


Well, it's quite a complex issue:


> ASL, which is widely used in the open-source software community and has been approved by the Open Source Initiative, is a permissive license that is conducive to commercial development and proprietary redistribution. Code that is distributed under the ASL and other permissive licenses can be integrated into closed-source proprietary products and redistributed under a broad variety of other terms. Unlike permissive open-source licenses, "copyleft" licenses (such as the GPL) generally impose restrictions on redistribution of code in order to ensure that modifications and derivatives are kept open and distributed under similar terms..
> 
> Although using a permissive license like ASL is the best way to build support for the Android platform, critics argue that Google has sacrificed an opportunity to encourage greater openness in the broader mobile software space. If Android was distributed under the GPLv2, companies building on top of the platform would have to share their enhancements, which could theoretically lead to widespread sharing of code and a more rapid acceleration of mobile software development.
> 
> The counterargument is that distributing Android under a copyleft license could potentially limit the evolution of the mobile software ecosystem by discouraging commercial development on top of the platform. Proprietary mobile software development companies that integrate Android into their technologies would have to dramatically change their business models if they aren't given the ability to keep their enhancements proprietary


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...e-the-apache-software-license-over-gplv2.html


----------



## jæd (Mar 25, 2008)

lobster said:


> http://code.google.com/android/kb/licensingandoss.html
> 
> So its proprietary to keep Google in control of the platform, how easily people are fooled when they hear open source .



Not really.... Its just that its unlikely for any Phone Manufacturer or Cell Phone Provider to allow phones with GPL'd radio code... 




			
				Editor said:
			
		

> Looks like Android-running phones might start shipping as early as late summer or early Autumn this year.
> 
> I'm really excited by this new phone OS: with the superb Googlemaps app, Google has already shown that it can produce class leading programs and with over 30 companies joining the Open Handset Alliance, there could be some real innovation on the horizon.



I thought the Android OS Phone was always on track for Q4 2008...? Its certainly interesting, but I'd be interested in seeing one in my hand before claiming its "innovative". Or actually works without crashing...


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2008)

jæd said:


> I thought the Android OS Phone was always on track for Q4 2008...? Its certainly interesting, but I'd be interested in seeing one in my hand before claiming its "innovative".


Well, they've already produced the free Googlemaps Mobile - a fabulously stable and innovative app that's already a mobile essential - so I'd say there's a pretty good chance we won't be in for a bog standard, all-crashing OS, especially when you consider the company's heritage.


----------



## Private Storm (Mar 25, 2008)

I saw a few of the prototype handsets that were running Android at the WMC event in Barcelona last month. Obviously no where near final products, but it didn't half look nice. 

Sorry if this has been said already, but there is a rather cynical view that saws that the only reason that Google are being so altruistic with Andriod is that they want to drive more people to use the mobile as a content and apps device....so they can sell more ads on them.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2008)

Private Storm said:


> Sorry if this has been said already, but there is a rather cynical view that saws that the only reason that Google are being so altruistic with Andriod is that they want to drive more people to use the mobile as a content and apps device....so they can sell more ads on them.


That's taken as a given, no?


----------



## jæd (Mar 25, 2008)

editor said:


> Well, they've already produced the free Googlemaps Mobile - a fabulously stable and innovative app that's already a mobile essential - so I'd say there's a pretty good chance we won't be in for a bog standard, all-crashing OS, especially when you consider the company's heritage.



Android Inc were an outside company bought up by Google. The developers of the Google Maps apps were completely separate (AFAIK and would expect) from this company. 

See my previous posts for my opinion of Google and its coders, in general...


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2008)

jæd said:


> See my previous posts for my opinion of Google and its coders, in general...


So you don't use Google search or GMail every day then?

And I'd say their current mobile software is very relevent to Android.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2008)

jæd said:


> See my previous posts for my opinion of Google and its coders, in general...


So you don't use their class-leading, world-pwning Google search or GMail every day then?

And I'd say their current mobile software is very relevent to looking at what Android might offer.


----------



## Private Storm (Mar 25, 2008)

> That's taken as a given, no?



Well no, not if you speak to Google 

It is a given when you consider Google in isolation, but the fact that they've convinced the other member of the Open Handset Alliance to come along for the ride when the ultimate aim is just to create more inventory to sell ads on is interesting.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2008)

Private Storm said:


> It is a given when you consider Google in isolation, but the fact that they've convinced the other member of the Open Handset Alliance to come along for the ride when the ultimate aim is just to create more inventory to sell ads on is interesting.


Sure, but seeing as the other handsets makers get a cut price OS and loads of cool apps for their products, it's going to be synergistic backslapping all round.

 How many handset firms (and punters) are going to fork out for a pricey WM licence when they can get the same functionality for a whole lot less?


----------



## jæd (Mar 25, 2008)

editor said:


> So you don't use their class-leading, world-pwning Google search or GMail every day then?



As I've mentioned previously, I deal a lot with their systems and their developers. They have a lot of bright people working for them which leads to a lot of group think... 



editor said:


> And I'd say their current mobile software is very relevent to looking at what Android might offer.



Not really. You're trying to take one application written for a completely different mobile phone o/s and extrapolating this to a whole framework written by a different team. Not to mention this mobile framework is going to have a host of 3rd party developers running their apps on it.

Its certainly interesting, but I'd wait and see how good it is once its released and in the wild...


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2008)

jæd said:


> Not really. You're trying to take one application written for a completely different mobile phone o/s and extrapolating this to a whole framework written by a different team. Not to mention this mobile framework is going to have a host of 3rd party developers running their apps on it.


I very much doubt if Google are going to risk ruining their stellar product reputation by releasing dodgy apps and an unstable OS.

I think Android is a far more interesting and exciting development than the much-hyped iPhone, and it'll be a lot more affordable for the masses too. It's also going to cause real worries for Windows Mobile and the much wobbling Palm.


----------



## lobster (Mar 25, 2008)

jæd said:


> Not really.... Its just that its unlikely for any Phone Manufacturer or Cell Phone Provider to allow phones with GPL'd radio code...




http://www.openmoko.com/
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ


> Q: Is it completely free software/open source?
> 
> A: User space GPS/Gpsd will use a binary plugin for Hammerhead AGPS and GSM modem is separate subsystem connected to S3C2410 UART1.
> 
> ...





Some interesting project ideas ..
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code


----------



## jæd (Mar 25, 2008)

lobster said:


> Q: Is it completely free software/open source?
> 
> A: User space GPS/Gpsd will use a binary plugin for Hammerhead AGPS and GSM modem is separate subsystem connected to S3C2410 UART1.
> 
> ...



As I said, its very unlikely you will get open-source radio software...


----------



## lobster (Mar 26, 2008)

android sdk kit is not fully open whereas openmoko is.


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

lobster said:


> android sdk kit is not fully open whereas openmoko is.



Its incredibly unlikely you'll ever get a 100 % open-sourced phone o/s... The networks wouldn't allow it and manufacturers woudn't want to disclose their radio code... Its unlikely the OpenMoko project will produce anything big, but is an interesting demo of want can be done with open-source. Android might well do, though...


----------



## editor (Apr 23, 2008)

T-Mobile USA have announced that they'll offering at least one Android based handset by the end of this year and that there will be "more than one."

Reckon things are going to heat up nicely when Android hits the market. Oh yes.


http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200804231045DOWJONESDJONLINE000770_FORTUNE5.htm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 23, 2008)

Yep, this is going to be great fun!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 23, 2008)

Android is running on the Linux core so its never going to be an unstable OS.

I look forward to getting my hands on one of these phones.


----------



## gorski (Apr 24, 2008)

My Nokia isn't unstable... [It could be better, faster etc.]

My XP isn't unstable... [It could be better, faster, more secure etc.]

Macbigots aren't really as "fortunate" as XP users, either...

My Linux used to be unstable, way too often, slow, resource hungry, not straight forward to install, what with silly partitioning problems, drivers missing, silly default settings and all... Everysooften there was something or other, sometimes it all froze, most programs were crap [from graphics to versatility and functionality onwards] or close to driving you up the wall, not being able to do as advertised... and it all, generally speaking, wasn't as it should be and it wasn't as versatile and as good as - let's face it - XP is, unfortunately... which isn't all that good anyway...

So, to my great sorrow, not being a programmer, I'm still disappointed, waiting for a properly functional Linux, with all the drivers and stability, versatility and proggies that work, as well as the proggies in XP... at least... 

It's doubly sad, as Gates is forcing us to buy new HW, as he's forcing everybody to change to his new, bloated, overbearing, demanding new OS... I mean, Linux could do so much for people not having to go Gates' way... forcing it all back to "doing the stuff that people need" rather than what the Corps want... but...

======================SIGH...=====================

It's all a bit sad, really...

I hate Gates' of this world and his Macbiggot rivals and partners in crime.

I love the idea of Linux and Open Source, giving it to Humanity and developing the whole thing "organically", in an inclusive manner...

But it just ain't good enough yet - at least for non-PC programmers...

Maybe in small things it might be better? But how?

What's gonna be better?

It's understandable that it's all a learning curve and Linux IS [thank fook!!!!!!] getting better and better, especially with Ubuntu developments but still...

I'm waiting for the day I'll be singing non-critical praises to Linux, I am so hopeful...

[Please, God, you know I don't believe in you, but just this one...   ]


----------



## editor (Jun 5, 2008)

Check out the video presentation of Android here: 

It's all a bit meh until the end.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2008)

Yeah, although a bit gimmicky I did like that unlock thing.


----------



## editor (Aug 12, 2008)

Rumours are that the first Android phone may be launching in the US on T-Mobile as soon as September:



> .... TmoNews says it has a reliable source that says the Android device made by smartphone manufacturer HTC will go on sale through T-Mobile USA on September 17.
> 
> The price tag will be $399 full retail or about $150 for a subsized phone with a two-year contract. The site also said that only existing T-Mobile customers will be able to buy the phone during the presale timeframe with other customers able to buy the phone a few weeks later in early October.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 13, 2008)

Hmm they have been saying that for a while. HTC pedgree isn't all that.  Software has some way to go last time I looked.


----------



## paolo (Aug 15, 2008)

I'd rather someone more dependeable (and high profile) had the first device out, a bit later, set a high bar, and with that achieved some 'halo' status that could springboard Android into giving Apple a run for it's money. If HTC balls it up, it'll taint the first impressions of the OS.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 15, 2008)

Well, I've nothing but praise for my HTC handset, so I could be tempted...


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2008)

Be a bit bonkers to buy a first gen OS though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 15, 2008)

editor said:


> Be a bit bonkers to buy a first gen OS though.



True, but Google seem to hit the mark with most of their stuff, so I _might_ be prepared to give it a whirl....


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> True, but Google seem to hit the mark with most of their stuff, so I _might_ be prepared to give it a whirl....


But it's not just Google but HTC taking their first steps...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 15, 2008)

editor said:


> But it's not just Google but HTC taking their first steps...



Gotta take the odd gamble in life now and then or it get's dull


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2008)

Well, saying that, I'll probably gamble on Palm's new Nova OS if it ever gets released - but then again, it should run all my old Palm OS programs.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 15, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> True, but Google seem to hit the mark with most of their stuff, so I _might_ be prepared to give it a whirl....


Yeah, but google stuff tends to come out as Beta, then get less and less ropey as it goes on (gmail still says BETA by it ffs!). That's not acceptable with a phone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 15, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, but google stuff tends to come out as Beta, then get less and less ropey as it goes on (gmail still says BETA by it ffs!). That's not acceptable with a phone.



I dunno, as long as it manages the basic call stuff OK I can live with it, anything else is just fluff (nice to have fluff, but fluff nevertheless, for me at any rate)


----------



## paolo (Aug 17, 2008)

Bees... What you'll see as fluff at the moment, could be something you get much more attached to when you use the device and want the 'bonus' stuff much more than you'd anticipated.

Seriously.

Today I:

- Read some urban, waiting at the campsite for my GF.
- Checked some sat pics to see we were going where we wanted to
- double checked my GF's journey plan... She'd underestimated it as I discovered, so I could show her she was being optimistic.
- At the station... No newspapers. I am a compulsive reader. No problem, fire up urban, dive in.
- and (saddo that I am), I'm here at Paddington enjoying a pint of ESB and still on line.

None of this is "productivity", it's much better than that. I can do the rather mundane things I do at home, anywhere. 

I think what I'm trying to get at is; when this stuff works properly, it stops becoming fluff. Many moons ago, the internet full stop was a "novelty geek thing" to me. You might, with an iPhone or maybe Android or whatever, have a revelation


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 17, 2008)

Nah, I regularly use my phone for checking my email, going on the internet, sorting out to do lists and all sorts of stuff, but as long as I can make and recive calls it's all "fluff" to me - nice to have, but nowt essential.


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2008)

Latest rumuors say that the Android phone will have a screen bigger than the iPhone, slide out keyboad and feature a trackball.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2008/08/googles_upcomin.html


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2008)

> If you want to receive push e-mail, you’ll have to use Google’s Gmail


If this is true they're seriously shooting themselves in the foot.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2008)

Oh, and the advertising bit sounds like a sack of fail as well


----------



## paolo (Aug 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Latest rumuors say that the Android phone will have a screen bigger than the iPhone, slide out keyboad and feature a trackball.
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2008/08/googles_upcomin.html



Bigger as in more bulky? Or more resolution, i.e. beneficial?

(I'm assuming the latter, but I couldn't tell from that article).


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2008)

There's a really shit video of what's claimed to be the phone here:


----------



## paolo (Aug 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Latest rumuors say that the Android phone will have a screen bigger than the iPhone, slide out keyboad and feature a trackball.
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2008/08/googles_upcomin.html



Just re-reading the article. It's a bit muddled. It talks as if T-Mobile will be running the Android developer programme and determining what developers can do, which simply can't be true. Operator specific rules for developers would be a nonsense.


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2008)

Here's Engadget's take on it:



> The HTC Dream may have already cleared the FCC, but at least one analyst that has actually seen the very first Android-based device, Moe Tanabian of IBB Consulting, says that it will only be hitting stores around Thanksgiving in November, and not September or October as many were expecting.
> 
> He also says that its "unclear" whether the phone will support Microsoft Exchange or not (at least right out of the gate), and that users may have to rely on Gmail if they want to receive push email. Among other tidbits, he also confirms that the device will have access to T-Mobile's own App Store-like service, and that it'll come with Google's advertising software pre-installed, which he says could not only lower the cost of the phone, but allow for lower monthly service fees as well.
> 
> Of course, you'll have to take that with all the usual analyst caveats for the time being, but we're sure we'll be hearing plenty more to back it up or shoot it down before the September / October / November launch.


More info/speculation: http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/08/18/android.lacks.exchange/


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2008)

Not sure I want advertising,I am assuming it will be an optional extra?

Remember those cheap and free calls you got if every two minutes you were prepared to listen to an ad?  I can only think that the web browser will deliver the ad?  How else can they deliver ads in a discrete enough way that it'll not endanger the handset.


----------



## Private Storm (Aug 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Not sure I want advertising,I am assuming it will be an optional extra?
> 
> Remember those cheap and free calls you got if every two minutes you were prepared to listen to an ad?  I can only think that the web browser will deliver the ad?  How else can they deliver ads in a discrete enough way that it'll not endanger the handset.



Looks like you will be able to get the handset/subscription cheaper if you sign up for ads, much like Blyk is doing, but can choose to pay more if you don't want them (yes please).

As for serving the ads, there are lots of possibilities - SMS/MMS message, interstitials (the blank gap when loading a page), ads served when in screensaver mode, banners, sponsored search terms/keywords, ads on the map you're browsing, product placement in games....loads of ways


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2008)

Private Storm said:


> Looks like you will be able to get the handset/subscription cheaper if you sign up for ads, much like Blyk is doing, but can choose to pay more if you don't want them (yes please).
> 
> As for serving the ads, there are lots of possibilities - SMS/MMS message, interstitials (the blank gap when loading a page), ads served when in screensaver mode, banners, sponsored search terms/keywords, ads on the map you're browsing, product placement in games....loads of ways



Screensavers on phones with big screens is switching it off.
Banners would require the screen to be on and you looking at it. So looking up a contact would be one time, but how long do you take doing that and would you even notice, you'd be concentrating on looking up your mate.
SMS advertising has been tried, lots of people got pissed off, Ofcom got involved and every gave it up as a failed idea.
Map adverts would be instant annoyance, you searched for taxi, I want all the taxi firms not local Car phone warehouse's or carpet shops. Only so much screen space.  If they wanted location based ads, oooh not sure about that.
Product placement in games. Thats been going on for ages, but its not guaranteed you'd play them and even if you did, its hardly worth a cheap contract. 
Your phone is generally clamped to your head or in your pocket.  The iPhone has shown me that the only time thats not true is when its being used to browse the web.

Imagine getting a coke ad before the SMS app loaded!


----------



## Private Storm (Aug 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Screensavers on phones with big screens is switching it off.


 My N95 goes dark when I'm not using, could easily be used to serve an ad (battery issues ofc, but not the point)



> Banners would require the screen to be on and you looking at it. So looking up a contact would be one time, but how long do you take doing that and would you even notice, you'd be concentrating on looking up your mate.


 Works when you're browsing



> SMS advertising has been tried, lots of people got pissed off, Ofcom got involved and every gave it up as a failed idea.


 Not if the ads are relevant and in context. Blyk have been very successful with this so far, definitely not a failed idea



> Map adverts would be instant annoyance, you searched for taxi, I want all the taxi firms not local Car phone warehouse's or carpet shops. Only so much screen space.  If they wanted location based ads, oooh not sure about that.


 Yep, the ads have to be in context i.e. related to what you're looking for and near you, not random stores



> Product placement in games. Thats been going on for ages, but its not guaranteed you'd play them and even if you did, its hardly worth a cheap contract.


 The contracts may well state that you have to get 5 ads a day - an in game one might be of five of different types. Serving ads while levels load is also being used

You're thinking that it's going to be just random spamming of ads, it's not, that's worthless. It's about serving ads that are relevant to time, location and the user, all of which can be nicely served by the mobile.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Latest rumuors say that the Android phone will have a screen bigger than the iPhone, slide out keyboad and feature a trackball.
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2008/08/googles_upcomin.html



Heh will it make me toast too?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2008)

Private Storm said:


> You're thinking that it's going to be just random spamming of ads, it's not, that's worthless. It's about serving ads that are relevant to time, location and the user, all of which can be nicely served by the mobile.



_Any_ ads onto my phone as part of it's basic function would be enough for it to go in the bin.  No exceptions.


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Your phone is generally clamped to your head or in your pocket.  The iPhone has shown me that the only time thats not true is when its being used to browse the web.
> 
> Imagine getting a coke ad before the SMS app loaded!


I imagine one major source of revenue will be advertising placement for location based services (set to be a Very Big mobile feature), much like Google search keywords where you get the paid-for results alongside the top results.

Personally, I think I'd find that less annoying than the iPhone's highly restrictive practices and that endless 'jailbreaking' bollocks, but I'd have to see how it all pans out in practice.


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2008)

Android's 0.9 SDK has been announced with some UI updates:

















http://gizmodo.com/photogallery/androidbeta/1003219248


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## Sunray (Aug 19, 2008)

editor said:


> I imagine one major source of revenue will be advertising placement for location based services (set to be a Very Big mobile feature), much like Google search keywords where you get the paid-for results alongside the top results.
> 
> Personally, I think I'd find that less annoying than the iPhone's highly restrictive practices and that endless 'jailbreaking' bollocks, but I'd have to see how it all pans out in practice.



I'm with Bee's on this, any ads at all, esp location based ones which would essentially require you to announce to the world your exact location in real time, make it the worst device in comms history.  Worthless.

iPhone killer it may be, but they really have shouldn't have been looking at the iPhone while they developed it.  One of the dialogues is very similar as is some of the wording.  Carry on like that an they will have Apple's lawyers at their door.

Still lacks the slickness of Apples offering.  Much more like a normal phone with a touch display although it is much improved on the last time I had a go.  Not sure about the menu button

I'm assuming that these will have physical keyboards as the emulator does not have a touch screen one I can see.


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## Crispy (Aug 19, 2008)

who the hell thought a trackball was a user friendly interface on a mobile device?


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## Private Storm (Aug 19, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> _Any_ ads onto my phone as part of it's basic function would be enough for it to go in the bin.  No exceptions.



Even if it meant you paid less for your monthly phone bill? Halved it? Down to a quarter of what you pay now? For a lot of people that is an attractive prospect.

But I'm with you though, I'd rather pay MORE than get adverts.


----------



## Private Storm (Aug 19, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I'm with Bee's on this, any ads at all, esp location based ones which would essentially require you to announce to the world your exact location in real time, make it the worst device in comms history.  Worthless.



Your phone annouces to the world where it is all the time it is on and in network coverage.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 19, 2008)

No it announces to the operator if they cared to look and they have to work it out via triangulation to 100m or so.  These phones all come with GPS which can tell you where you are to a meter or so.

Location based advertising would allow the advertiser to know that information, which in this case would be Google. They are a US based company so have no requirements with regard to that data.  Does that not even raise an eyebrow?

As for quartering bills, I doubt it very much indeed.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 19, 2008)

editor said:


>



Hmmm, that layout looks a tad familliar 




Crispy said:


> who the hell thought a trackball was a user friendly interface on a mobile device?



I dunno, I reckon it could work quite well.




Private Storm said:


> Even if it meant you paid less for your monthly phone bill?



I don't care how much they reduced my bill by, _any_ compulsory ads onto my phone and I wouldn't buy it.


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## Sunray (Aug 19, 2008)

They are quite similar don't you think.

Nice feature there, send calls from this person directly to voice mail.  Dunno why companies have never put that on as a standard feature.


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2008)

I don't see any particular similarities between Android's interface and the iPhone's - well, nothing more than the iPhone shares with earlier OSs.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 19, 2008)

Apart from the fact that the android interface looks ugly as hell (I count 7 font sizes!), the similarities are pretty slight.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 19, 2008)

editor said:


> I don't see any particular similarities between Android's interface and the iPhone's - well, nothing more than the iPhone shares with earlier OSs.











Not even a teeny weeny bit?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 19, 2008)

Well come on, icons in a grid? hardly a unique idea.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 19, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Well come on, icons in a grid? hardly a unique idea.



I'm not being _entirely_ serious, hence the  and


----------



## paolo (Aug 19, 2008)

My guess is that, on the advertising thing, the analyst is doing some poorly considered speculation, rather than actually knowing the plans being considered. Google has never been in the game of subsidizing hardware or services where there is a reasonably tangible incremental cost per user. Even the free storage on gmail is probably sub $1 per head. If there are ads, I would be very surprised if they have any bearing on the pricing structures determined by operators.


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## Private Storm (Aug 19, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> My guess is that, on the advertising thing, the analyst is doing some poorly considered speculation, rather than actually knowing the plans being considered. Google has never been in the game of subsidizing hardware or services where there is a reasonably tangible incremental cost per user.



Maybe not, but mobile operators are well used to the subsidy model and given that the devices are being sold in partnership with them I can see it happening.


----------



## paolo (Aug 19, 2008)

The subsidy model is that you pay extra on your contract, in return for discount on the handset.

Advertising subsidy is very different. Unlike the traditional handset subsidy, it is speculative. You agree in advance to forego revenue, and then hope that ad revenue will meet or exceed the shortfall. It's been tried with everything from PCs to broadband service, and it has always failed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2008)

Sunray said:


> They are quite similar don't you think.



Ever so slightly!


----------



## Private Storm (Aug 19, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Advertising subsidy is very different. Unlike the traditional handset subsidy, it is speculative. You agree in advance to forego revenue, and then hope that ad revenue will meet or exceed the shortfall. It's been tried with everything from PCs to broadband service, and it has always failed.



Blyk are doing ok with the very same model. Will they last? Don't know, but with them expanding to markets outside of the UK suggests it has legs. Plenty of mobile operators are either watching very keenly, or setting up their own variations of the same scheme.


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## Sunray (Aug 19, 2008)

snipped from the BBC tech site, who knows how accurate that is, only time will tell I expect.



> ....The phone is being seen as an important step in Google's plans to move into the mobile market because the new Dream will use Google's advertising platform to serve up ads based on the interests of the user and their location....



This means 100% FAIL.

I shall stick to my battery light, DRM'd, restrictive practice *entirely Ad free* iPhone.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 19, 2008)

If that's true it's _really_ fucking disappointing


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2008)

It's coming in a couple of weeks!


> "T-Mobile and Google will be making an announcement this month in New York City," two people told Reuters on Wednesday, adding Sept 23 was a likely date for the announcement.
> 
> T-Mobile declined to comment and Google was not immediately available.
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080910/bs_nm/t_mobile_android_dc


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2008)

It's getting ever closer and it looks like a HTC device will be first out of the blocks.







Read - TechRadar, "Google shows off final Android handset"
Read - PC Pro, "Android handset hits London"
Read - PC Pro, "Will Apple or Android get in my pocket?"

Video of conference demo showing the phone in action: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/16/google-shows-off-masked-android-handset/

GPS, Wi-Fi, 3G, street view, accelerometer, multiple browser windows (I think).. and of course, anyone can write apps for the thing - no approval needed from The Man!


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## weltweit (Sep 16, 2008)

Location based advertising is all very well .. 

But when I am in the location I have MY EYES!! LOOK AROUND YOU .. there is an XYZ or an ABC .. why would I need my phone to tell me ?


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2008)

weltweit said:


> Location based advertising is all very well ..
> 
> But when I am in the location I have MY EYES!! LOOK AROUND YOU .. there is an XYZ or an ABC .. why would I need my phone to tell me ?


I think all the advertising talk here is a bit of a red herring, but location based services can be very useful indeed.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2008)

The Android HTC Dream/G1 handset has been touted for a US release price of $199 +2 yr contract.

http://techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/09/17/googles-199-phone-to-compete-with-the-iphone/


----------



## Sunray (Sep 18, 2008)

Cool, when my contract is up I may well consider it.  Finally an phone OS thats not WM6, perhaps 1/2 decent.  Shame it doesn't do multi-touch.  

Still, competition for Apple is never a bad thing.  If anything it puts pressure on Apple to do even better. I get better software.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Cool, when my contract is up I may well consider it.  Finally an phone OS thats not WM6, perhaps 1/2 decent.  Shame it doesn't do multi-touch.
> 
> Still, competition for Apple is never a bad thing.  If anything it puts pressure on Apple to do even better. I get better software.


Android has been seen with support for multi touch, although I'm not sure if it will make it into the first release.

Still, seeing as it's a proper, open source phone OS, there should be many improvements and tweaks coming up.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/google/a...s-off-multitouch-google-maps-quake-321674.php


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2008)

Looking more and more interesting. Times are good for smartphone users, so much choice: WM, a new Palm OS Symbian, Android, Apple, RIM...


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2008)

It's getting closer....


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2008)

Slide out keyboard ftw!


----------



## paolo (Sep 19, 2008)

editor said:


> It's getting closer....



When is it out? (in the UK)


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2008)

There is some convergence on PDA design this will accelerate that quite a bit.  All about the same form factor, just if they are a bit thicker to have the full keyboard.   

The amount of these type devices that run windows mobile 6 is testament to the fact mobile phone companies do not want to sink the resources into OS design. Its hard and costly and generally doomed to failure because from scratch it takes ages to come up with something reliable by which time its not relevant and has a tiny community of developers to code for it. Symbian as a case in point.  

Its nice that something new and open is now out there to inject some life into the mobile market.  I have the feeling that in a few years these phones will be the norm for many people.  Its that, 'it can do what?' trickle down effect.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2008)

Interesting chat about Android's features and prospects here:



> *Calendar, contact and mail syncing* without USB cables, iTunes, or third-party, run-once apps.
> Easy to configure computer control with *VNC, SSH, Remote Desktop,* and other open protocols.
> *Location-aware apps* to compete with the iPhone—from the results of an Android developers' contest, that's looking very possible.
> Desktop *backups and syncing*. Can we get that with iterative backups that don't take 5+ minutes? Thanks.
> Real, honest-to-goodness *VOIP calling*. Because if Android is truly an open platform, this shouldn't be all that hard—right?.


http://lifehacker.com/5052054/what-to-expect-from-google-android-and-what-were-hoping-for


----------



## Sunray (Sep 20, 2008)

is any mobile operator going to allow voip across their network? Surely that would smash their business model?


----------



## salem (Sep 21, 2008)

Sunray said:


> is any mobile operator going to allow voip across their network? Surely that would smash their business model?



They are wary but it'll be interesting to see how that pans out. Three made quite a big thing of having skype on their handsets not too long ago.

Also I sometimes work in a fairly remote office with no landline and t-mobile allow us to use VOIP (but on a more expensive then the usual webnwalk plan)

I wouldn't be surprised it ends up with the mobile companies just charging for data and everything else going via the internet on top. If you look at BT their business model has moved in that direction with landlines and for the mobile networks it's the next step of evolution after the USB dongle.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 21, 2008)

So if they charge extra for that VOIP data then the whole point of VOIP is removed.


----------



## salem (Sep 21, 2008)

Well that's the current situation, yes. Although in this case the VOIP was to allow us to have a 'proper' 020 number.

I have no doubt that they don't like the idea of VOIP but they're not going to have much choice in the matter unless they pull the plug on their data services.

I don't think it'll upset their business model too much, just alter it. Bundles and bills will be more based on Mb's used rather then minutes/texts. I already get more minutes then I can use for £15/month. If I made those same calls via VOIP then it'd not upset the applecart too much.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 21, 2008)

salem said:


> Well that's the current situation, yes. Although in this case the VOIP was to allow us to have a 'proper' 020 number.
> 
> I have no doubt that they don't like the idea of VOIP but they're not going to have much choice in the matter unless they pull the plug on their data services.
> 
> I don't think it'll upset their business model too much, just alter it. Bundles and bills will be more based on Mb's used rather then minutes/texts. I already get more minutes then I can use for £15/month. If I made those same calls via VOIP then it'd not upset the applecart too much.



All the operators have complete control what passes through their network.  VIOP uses standard ports.  I would suggest that they will be blocked for good.

Harder if some enterprising soul uses port 80 but then they can just block that IP address.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

If these leaked photos are real, then it's certainly not a looker (it looks like an old Palm), but the spec sheet looks OK - but - there appears to be no video capture yet (wha'?!!). Of course being open source, we can expect a ton of programs to come out to fix the phone's shortcomings without any "approved by the Guv'nor" bullshit..








> # One-click Google search and easy access to all Google Applications
> # Google Maps (including satellite, traffic and street views)
> # Gmail
> # YouTube
> ...


http://tmonews.com/2008/09/info-leaks/


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Inbetween all the bitching on Engadget (it seems they grabbed the pics off another site and didn't bother giving them credit until nagged into doing so), there's this comment which I think is spot on:


> Isn't this ironic. Just like the iPhone, the G1 is touted as being innovative and is going to redefine the mobile phone industry, yet it lacks a few basic features found in the most basic cell phones. Reviewers are going to have a field day with this one.



Update: official site here - http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/#


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2008)

I can live with missing features because its always a trade off of features over release date. Its not like they will not come in time if its successful.

I'm hoping that there will not be a plethora of distributions like there are for Linux, Android will be the platform, which is maintained by Google with an Iron fist.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I can live with missing features because its always a trade off of features over release date. Its not like they will not come in time if its successful.
> 
> I'm hoping that there will not be a plethora of distributions like there are for Linux, Android will be the platform, which is maintained by Google with an Iron fist.


And all the compatablility joy that comes with it


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

It's early days yet but I hope Android doesn't disappoint.

The wheels are coming off Palm's wagon at a rate of knots (the new OS has now been catastrophically pushed back to a mid 2009 release), W Mobile is hideous (although HTC's software shell looks to make a reasonable challenge to the iPhone), I've no interest in signing up to the closed-in, proprietary "do as we say" keyboard-free world of Apple, the Nokia OS still looks horrible and clunky to me and the Blackberry's Bold is just too God-damn wide for my pocket, so there's not a lot else to hope for apart from Android.


----------



## kyser_soze (Sep 23, 2008)

> SMS advertising has been tried, lots of people got pissed off, Ofcom got involved and every gave it up as a failed idea.



WAYYYYY off base. SMS advertising is successful, heavily used and far from being 'given up' on, it's mainly used to 'on the go' price promotions, quick vox pop surveying not to mention location-based systems that are used in, among other places, shopping malls, by companies like ZagMe which are extremely popular.

What's interesting, again, is that not a single person has actually focussed on how people buy their mobiles. This will be a fight, because Nokia are wedded to Symbian, and currently hold 60% of the global market for phone OSs with it, not to mention more importantly they have the widest cross network penetration with their model range. 

As I've pointed out before, people buy on package first, not handset. Unless Google go down the cross network route (and I can't see 02 being allowed to use this while they're still sole iPhone distributors, same goes for all of Apple's partners), or can get people switching networks for just the handset (unlikely, and people are just as brand loyal to Nokia as they are Apple) it'll still only ever take in a minority share of the market...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 23, 2008)

How much control are Google going to hold over who the phone makers flog their phones to. Why shouldn't it be on the same network as Apple?


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> As I've pointed out before, people buy on package first, not handset. Unless Google go down the cross network route (and I can't see 02 being allowed to use this while they're still sole iPhone distributors, same goes for all of Apple's partners),....


Even if O2 can't run Android phones, that still leaves a lot of other network operators ready and willing to offer a quality handset free of Apple's fiddling about....


----------



## kyser_soze (Sep 23, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> How much control are Google going to hold over who the phone makers flog their phones to. Why shouldn't it be on the same network as Apple?



I find it unlikely that Apple, a company who've made a big arse about network-exclusive deals to flog the iPhone, are going to be too happy about their partners tarting off to handsets with what amounts to the same kind of phone (as far as the end user is concerned). It's nothing to do with Google's control.



> That still leaves a lot of other network operators ready and willing to offer a quality handset free of Apple's fiddling about....



Well yes, but to get to the high market share they presumably want, it'll have to be cross network, not just with one or two...put it this way, when 3, Orange or Vodafone (especially Vodafone) sign up for this then you'll have a symbian beater in the UK. Globally, Vodafone, Sprint, Hutchinson, Téléfonica and a few of the other major networks you'll have a world beater


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> I find it unlikely that Apple, a company who've made a big arse about network-exclusive deals to flog the iPhone, are going to be too happy about their partners tarting off to handsets with what amounts to the same kind of phone (as far as the end user is concerned). It's nothing to do with Google's control.


But 02 already offer a full range of rival handsets to the iPhone and are constantly updating their range. Apple don't own the company, and I can't see how they could stop them stocking a competitive product that their customers want.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2008)

I thing that trying to get this phone to be taken up by exclusively by an operator is plain daft.  That this phone is of interest to the enthusiast community and that community while small can drive the feature set such that those features become more mainstream and people see the benefit and order them themselves.

Trying to get a mass market adoption isn't going to happen unless you have the marketing of Apple and its got some prior history, e.g. The iPhone is an iPod and therefore already a well know brand for the masses.

If its truly an open platform, then I can't see how it can be anything other than an any network phone or some of that message is lost immediately.


----------



## kyser_soze (Sep 23, 2008)

Handset sales don't really go on the basis of marketing themselves, they go on what call packages they're attached to; there's always the early adopter/trendier-than-thou element, and while Sony/Motorola do lots of model specific marketing, generally speaking it's when a manfacturer wants to target a specific audience that you'll see ads - stuff like the Sony Ericsson K series, the 'N' series for Nokia are primarily marketed at point of sale, not on TV or other media.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2008)

I looks like an iPhone.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I looks like an iPhone.


LOL. Five minutes to the start of the presentation and the Amazon bombshell has already been let off. What's next?

*excited-ish.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Looks a bit better - and smaller - in the flesh:











"We finally, finally got our mitts all over the very first Android device, the T-Mobile G1 -- hanging out in the crowd, waiting for the official announce, naturally -- and so far we like what we see. The phone is surprisingly thinner than we thought it would be, and it feels pretty solid in your hand (though they've opted for an almost all plastic device, no metal here). The keyboard seems usable and reasonably well thought-out, and the slider action is like butter, with a nice little swoop for good effect."

They're talking about "Moving away from walled gardens and closed portals… " ... "being committed to open industry platforms as they bring the necessary freedom to our customers' community and developers" at the launch. Amen to that.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Gizmodo: "Amazon mp3 looks slick. Browser looks beautiful. I want this"

"Are you guys watching the webcast? What do you think? My excitement just shot through the roof."


http://announcement.t-mobileg1.com/  Slick as fuck. Want.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Fucking hell. This phone looks great.


----------



## kyser_soze (Sep 23, 2008)

Shit logo tho...


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Wow! There's a bar code app - scan the product you're interested in when you're shopping and it'll give you comparative prices !


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

In Europe: launch in UK early November.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

First impression: 100% win.

The head honchos from Google are talking now. They look so young!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 23, 2008)

editor said:


> First impression: 100% win.



Shame the handset is so ugly (it would look a lot better in silver IMO, rather than black), but hey ho, can't have everything 

I'm due an upgrade from T-Mobile atm, I might just hang on until November


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Shame the handset is so ugly (it would look a lot better in silver IMO, rather than black), but hey ho, can't have everything
> 
> I'm due an upgrade from T-Mobile atm, I might just hang on until November


Check out the video on that link - the interface is amazing. I'm definitely getting one. Don't give a fuck what it looks like when it;s as good as this. And because they'll be none of this fucking 'Apple approved/iTunes' bullshit, there's going to be apps a-plenty.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Wow! There's a bar code app - scan the product you're interested in when you're shopping and it'll give you comparative prices !


 
I have that on my n95 by the way.


dave


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2008)

Chrome 'lite'?  That doesn't sound too great.  'lite' has never endeared me to any product especially web browsers.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Check out the video on that link - the interface is amazing. I'm definitely getting one. Don't give a fuck what it looks like when it;s as good as this. And because they'll be none of this fucking 'Apple approved/iTunes' bullshit, there's going to be apps a-plenty.



Poor old palm. If your off then its doomed.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

Is it me or is typing on the Zero, P, Backspace and Return keys going to scrape the inside of your thumb? Why doesn't the whole top slide back?


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

kained&able said:


> I have that on my n95 by the way.


Which stores does it check prices with?

Check out the video walkthrough here.  It's pretty amazing stuff.

More video: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/video-android-walkthrough-on-t-mobile-g1/

The compass view is incredible - the street view changes as you move the the phone around.

Google Search, Maps, Gmail and Contacts, Calendar, Google Talk and You Tube all enabled with a single sign-on. Nice.

Oh, and copy and paste ftw.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

The Register said:
			
		

> He said there will be no desktop application for synching with PC apps and files.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 23, 2008)

editor said:


>



Ooooh, now that looks a lot better.


Have just watched the vids - wow.  Will be interesting to read the first "real world" tests of it


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Crispy said:


>


Have you seen how it syncs on the fly? Very impressive. 

Being open source, I'd imagine you'd be looking at a desktop tools arriving within weeks.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

Well I'd like to see some sort of rudimentary itunes sync at least. I'm guessing it's drag'n'drop when you plug it into USB for now, which would do.

Also, you're a bit buggered if you don't use google mail/calendar (for now)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 23, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I'm guessing it's drag'n'drop when you plug it into USB for now, which would do



That would be fine for me, I can't stand itunes (or anything similar, all my mp3s and other files are organised into a sensible file structure so I can find anything without needing a library type interface)




> Also, you're a bit buggered if you don't use google mail/calendar (for now)



I do, so again, this is looking like a pretty much perfect device...


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

I haven't seen it mentioned, but I presume the phone also runs Gears, so the calendar and mail is available offline?


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I haven't seen it mentioned, but I presume the phone also runs Gears, so the calendar and mail is available offline?


Well, if it syncs with Google Calendar etc I can't see any reason why you can't use that info with any desktop apps.

Thing is, its only just been announced, but I can see developers falling over themselves for this. After all, this is just the first Android phone and there's some MASSIVE tech companies lining up phones.

Oh, and it can't read DRM'd iTunes songs although it can read the non-DRM stuff.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

only an idiot would buy DRM music. All my stuff's MP3 format anyway 

What I meant by Gears is that I presume the Calendar shortcut on the screen is a proper app and not a web app, if you see what I mean


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2008)

Any news on price yet? Both contract and unlocked?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

Free on contract of £40 or more


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2008)

12 or 18 month?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

No. Standard. Headphone. Jack >_<
When will they learn?!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 23, 2008)

Crispy said:


> No. Standard. Headphone. Jack >_<
> When will they learn?!



That's the thing that annoys me the most about my Vario II, fuck knows why manufacturers still keep doing it


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Crispy said:


> No. Standard. Headphone. Jack >_<
> When will they learn?!


Yep. That's chuffing annoying alright. But the good news is that there'll be loads of alternative Android phones to choose from soon.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 23, 2008)

Any news on when the first cross network phone will be available or at least one I can use on Orange?


----------



## salem (Sep 23, 2008)

Not sure I've seen it mentioned, but as it's open source is it likely to retro-install android to a WM6 smartphone?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 23, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I looks like an iPhone.



Does everything with a touch screen and few buttons look like an iphone to you.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Here's a side by side shot:


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Is it me or is typing on the Zero, P, Backspace and Return keys going to scrape the inside of your thumb? Why doesn't the whole top slide back?


The excellent Boy Genius site says the keyboard's pretty good:





> The slide on the screen by the way, is very tight and smooth. It has a great snap to it as you slide it open and closed, and the fact that it doesn’t slide straight up (the slider track on the back of the screen is shaped like “(” rather than “|”) is oddly cool.
> 
> As for the keyboard there was a lot of concern but we’ll clear it up for you right now. It’s not bad at all - we’d give it a “B”.
> 
> ...





> Android has the feel of a seasoned veteran despite the fact that we’re still a month away from the start of its rookie season. As for the near future, it is most definitely not going to fail to impress.
> 
> Development is going to kick into high gear right out of the gate and unlike the restrictions Apple puts on third-party iPhone developers (no background processes, no access to much of the OS, etc) Android development is going to soar.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2008)

global stoner: I was just messing...

Am I understanding it right that you have to sign in to use the app and this means you can only access one Google account at a time?


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

More interesting reflections on the launch:


> *11 ways Android will kick the iPhone's ass
> Start quaking in your boots, Steve. Or support some more stuff, up to you*
> 
> 
> ...


You know what was also nice about today's launch too? There wasn't a fucking shrieking, whooping, high fiving fanboy in the house.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Here Apple. This is how to do it.



> We had a chance to speak with T-Mobile CTO Cole Brodman after the event today, and he had some illuminating -- and frankly refreshing -- takes on some of our more pressing questions.
> 
> When asked about what T-Mobile's reaction would be to users creating tethering or unlocking apps for the phone, he was surprisingly even-keeled, noting that while the company didn't encourage the practice, they wouldn't lock down the OS or update the software to break those applications.
> 
> ...


----------



## paolo (Sep 24, 2008)

I use about 2.5gb a month, so a 1gb bandwidth cap = total fail for me. (The report I read says that T-Mobile take you down to "dial-up" speeds once you've used up your data. Shame. Lots of good stuff there for people who don't want to use it alot. I guess we'll have to wait to see if they will be capping bandwidth in the UK.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2008)

Read a piece on the Wired site earlier that suggests Google's open source utopia may end up working very similiar to Apple due to networks crippling the OS. T Mobile have already said no voip app will be allowed to run on it....


----------



## Kanda (Sep 24, 2008)

editor said:


> You know what was also nice about today's launch too? There wasn't a fucking shrieking, whooping, high fiving fanboy in the house.



Apart from yourself yes?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 24, 2008)

That list is rubbish. It started near the bottom of the barrel and goes through it.  Lets have a bit of balance IMO.

1. The Apple SDK is free to download and anyone can develop for the iPhone. Because its a closed device, you will get paid for your work if it gets onto the App Store.  Judging by the number of applications on there now I reckon its not so difficult.  Free devices do allow the coping of software far too easily.

2. Online apps, err Googles online apps.  Open as long as its Google.

3. Faster.  Doing what exactly? 

4. More support for various hardware platforms means that there are going to be software compatibility issues.  e.g. If some phones don't have a touch screen.  This is one of the reason for the shitness of WM. 

5. See 4.

6. So it doesn't have flash then? Just the promise of flash.  Full flash will tax any mobile device.

7. Get over yourself, its an open platform.  If people think that open platforms are by some magical law, great, I point you at Windows Mobile which is an open platform.  All the tools including the Visual Studio tools are free, all the SDK's are free, there are loads of extras from MS that are free.  Microsoft's MSDN website is an immense resource, free. Its very like NT4 in operation so if your a PC developer its very easy to get started.  Microsoft promise to really love you for developing for it and really don't mind what  what you write for it. Still shit.

8. Its a keyboard.

9. Restrictive formats?  Err OK, if this is a full scale attack at the iPhone that sounds very much like the bottom of the barrel.  OK perhaps it would be handy to play a full screen divx rather than having to convert it to the native format on the phone but as I've never played a video on it I wouldn't know.  A battery life of 2-3hrs playing video/24hrs music means I stick to music as it means I can still have the phone as a phone.

10. No jailbreak, well actually you might have to, not sure.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Apart from yourself yes?


I don't 'do' lengthy queuing outside stores or whooping and high fiving over electronic products.

I leave that to the Apple fanboys.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 24, 2008)

editor said:


> I leave that to the Apple fanboys.



They're bonkers.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Sunray said:


> 1. The Apple SDK is free to download and anyone can develop for the iPhone. Because its a closed device, you will get paid for your work if it gets onto the App Store.  Judging by the number of applications on there now I reckon its not so difficult.  Free devices do allow the coping of software far too easily.


The point is that anyone can develop for the Android platform and their work won't be rejected and refused access to users just because someone at the phone manufacturers thinks it's too flippant an application or a rival to their own software.

And that's a huge difference. _Users_ should decide what's useful for the them, not the boss of the company making the phone.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 24, 2008)

editor said:


> e.
> 
> And that's a huge difference. _Users_ should decide what's useful for the them, not the boss of the company making the phone.



Yes, but users do - it's a false dichotomy. They can choose whether to buy an iphone or not. 

I honestly can't see why you're getting your knickers in a twist repeatedly about this. Nobody's forcing you to buy an iphone, not is there any luck of choice in the mobile market. Nor is Apple, in any way, trying to force its model as the precedent for the entire market


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Yes, but users do - it's a false dichotomy. They can choose whether to buy an iphone or not.
> 
> I honestly can't see why you're getting your knickers in a twist repeatedly about this. Nobody's forcing you to buy an iphone, not is there any luck of choice in the mobile market. Nor is Apple, in any way, trying to force its model as the precedent for the entire market


Er hello?

Apple are one of the biggest tech companies on the planet. They often lead where others follow. 

The hugely restrictive practices they set at the launch of the iPhone (one network only, self borking phones, all apps to be 'approved' or entirely rejected, forced 18 months contracts, all applications and media content to be forcibily purchased exclusively through their own store and nowhere else etc etc) set a worrying precedent for consumers. 'You want a nice phone? Then do it our way, or else.'

Perhaps you're happy just to shrug off these restrictive proprietary practices  because you love the brand, but it sure worries me. Hopefully Android will show that great phones don't need to come with the threat of being broken and that open source methods are the way forward.

No matter how attractive the phone, it seems strange to see normally tech savvy people are just ignoring the restrictions introduced to the marketplace by Apple. To me, that should concern everyone because tech companies rarely work in isolation and are quick to borrow profitable practices from others.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 24, 2008)

Why does it worry you when you have other choices? Just don't choose Apple, simple. 

If it's that fucked up, no-one will follow their lead. It's the mobile market, which they're new to... I doubt they'll lead.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Why does it worry you when you have other choices?


See above.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 24, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Why does it worry you when you have other choices? Just don't choose Apple, simple.
> 
> If it's that fucked up, no-one will follow their lead. It's the mobile market, which they're new to... I doubt they'll lead.



Exactly. Pretending that Apple dictates the terms to a market it's a fresh entrant in, against established titans like Nokia, is just plain daft. It's not as though Apple hasn't always been entirely transparent in how the App store would work either.

If anything, Apple's helped plough a hole in the monopoly of the carriers and their terms, showing off the web potential and download market for mobile internet devices. Now carriers may well be more willing to work with handset manufacturers and alternative OSs, perhaps even increasingly offering less walled-garden services and better access to things like VOIP. OK, maybe that's a little hopeful


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

tarannau said:


> If anything, Apple's helped plough a hole in the monopoly of the carriers and their terms, showing off the web potential and download market for mobile internet devices.


What? The iPhone is only available on one network through long term exclusive network deals with the threat of users having their phones broken if they try and break out of that deal.

Why, thanks Apple. What a service to consumers!

Edit: useful iPhone vs G1 spec comparison here:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10049397-1.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave


----------



## tarannau (Sep 24, 2008)

Yep, but Apple also forced through some pretty impressive terms and deals for web browsing and has proved that there's a huge potential (mass) market for downloads from something other than a crummy walled garden of offerings from the network. Not perfect, but not bad for a new entrant into the market.

And no matter how you try and wrap it up, exclusive handsets and 18 month contracts at that price were around well before Apple.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Yep, but Apple also forced through some pretty impressive terms and deals for web browsing....


What 'impressive deals' specifically?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 24, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Yep, but Apple also forced through some pretty impressive terms and deals for web browsing and has proved that there's a huge potential (mass) market for downloads from something other than a crummy walled garden of offerings from the network



Errr, I've had unlimited downloads from the entire internet on my phone for £7.50 a month for almost 2 years.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 24, 2008)

That comparison states "$179 with two-year service agreement"
Is this a lockdown or is there un unlocked G1 price?

PS: The Reg are calling it the Satan Phone, in opposition to the iphone's Jesus


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Errr, I've had unlimited downloads from the entire internet on my phone for £7.50 a month for almost 2 years.


I've had a package offering unlimited internet plus a ton of free texts and call minutes for £20/month on a one year contract for years too, so I'm curious to learn about that these marvellous deals that Apple have 'forced through' for consumers.


Crispy said:


> That comparison states "$179 with two-year service agreement"
> Is this a lockdown or is there un unlocked G1 price?


There's rather an unusual 90-deal being offered according to Engadget:



> More interestingly, buyers would be able to have access to a "contract free" G1 (with a price point of $399), and could unlock the device with T-Mobile's blessing after 90 days. Brodman also said that the company's policy of unlocking phones for customers in good standing wouldn't change for this phone.
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/


Around £200 for the unlocked G1? Not bad. Not bad at all.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 24, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Errr, I've had unlimited downloads from the entire internet on my phone for £7.50 a month for almost 2 years.



£5 for me on 3 payg, with the added bonus of being able to link the phone up to a pc/mac and use it as a modem.  

Until recently they didn't even bother monitoring my usage and I was able to use over 1gb/day torrenting etc.


----------



## Dask (Sep 24, 2008)

Having an MP3 store but no headphone jack?? WTF? Who's genius idea was that?

It's a shame as it's an otherwise cool phone.

(Although I really hate that huge analogue clock that they are demo'ing on the home screen in the videos)


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Dask said:


> Having an MP3 store but no headphone jack?? WTF?


Daft, isn't it. Still, I imagine you'll be able to pick up a cheap  adapter pretty sharpish.


Dask said:


> (Although I really hate that huge analogue clock that they are demo'ing on the home screen in the videos)


You'll be able to change all that, no bother!


----------



## nick h. (Sep 24, 2008)

RaverDrew said:


> £5 for me on 3 payg, with the added bonus of being able to link the phone up to a pc/mac and use it as a modem.
> 
> Until recently they didn't even bother monitoring my usage and I was able to use over 1gb/day torrenting etc.



Flippin' 'eck! That's the deal of the century! What download speed do you get? And now that they are monitoring usage, what deal are you getting? 

I've got a PAYG Blue Angel with Orange and I must be getting about one million % less bits per pound than you. Good thing I stay at home all day on my wi-fi.


----------



## blooper (Sep 24, 2008)

On that head to head neither of them are viable options for me, still. N95 8GB still reigns supreme!


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Sunray said:


> 1. The Apple SDK is free to download and anyone can develop for the iPhone. Because its a closed device, you will get paid for your work if it gets onto the App Store.  Judging by the number of applications on there now I reckon its not so difficult.


Sadly, that's not always the case - Apple have already blocked genuinely useful apps and are now trying to _gag the developer_ so they can't even speak out about why their app was banned!





> Stung by critics who say the company's rejection of certain applications is based on opaque and self-serving rules to the detriment of users and developers, Apple has moved to silence critics.
> 
> Recent weeks have seen critical storms blow up when news has emerged that Apple has rejected certain apps, most recently Podcaster which enabled on-device downloads of podcasts. An application Apple rejected because it duplicated some of the features of iTunes. It did to an extent, but also extended these features - and critics slammed Apple for battling user choice.
> 
> ...


----------



## Iam (Sep 24, 2008)

In fairness, there's shitloads of utterly pointless crap already clogging up the App Store, so it won't hurt to have some quality control.

The non-disclosure seems a bit excessive, but I expect they're just trying to prevent "developers" whinging on their blogs that their superb new cube game wasn't deemed good enough, or even suing them or something.

Ho humm.

Android looks nice. Now, if they can get some decent handsets out, poor old Windows Mobile's going to be lagging in a faraway 3rd place...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Sadly, that's not always the case - Apple have already blocked genuinely useful apps and are now trying to _gag the developer_ so they can't even speak out about why their app was banned!



Given the number of applications on App store I get the feeling  they are blocking no more than the odd few and they are a vocal minority.

I note that Google have updated every version of Google maps with street view except the iPhone version.  A genuinely useful application on the iPhone, gets blocked by Google.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Given the number of applications on App store I get the feeling they are blocking no more than the odd few and they are a vocal minority.


So you think it's alright for Apple to try to gag this 'vocal minority' who have just had their development work rejected on Apple's whim, even when the applications they've worked on are of high quality and of real use to some of the community?


Sunray said:


> I note that Google have updated every version of Google maps with street view except the iPhone version.  A genuinely useful application on the iPhone, gets blocked by Google.


You're totally wrong, I'm afraid. Street view doesn't work on a whole host of phones including the Palm platform. It is currently only supported on BlackBerry and some Java-enabled phones.

http://www.google.com/mobile/default/maps/index.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2008)

That handset looks ok in white but don't like that weird curve it has at the bottom. Makes it look like some kind of test device. Also, I'm with Crispy, why couldn't the whole face slide up?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 24, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Yep, but Apple also forced through some pretty impressive terms and deals for web browsing and has proved that there's a huge potential (mass) market for downloads from something other than a crummy walled garden of offerings from the network.



Does any UK mobile company still use a walled garden? I thought 3 were the last to abandon the model and that was a fair few years ago.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 24, 2008)

RaverDrew said:


> £5 for me on 3 payg, with the added bonus of being able to link the phone up to a pc/mac and use it as a modem.



Your not supposed to be able to do that though, they would rather you went to the £10 pm deal on one of their modems. Still allways worked for me. Gutted where I live now I can only get orange.




			
				nick h. said:
			
		

> Flippin' 'eck! That's the deal of the century! What download speed do you get? And now that they are monitoring usage, what deal are you getting?



I used to get about 324kbs, although never used it enough to find out if they monitored usage, just for the web and email.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Does any UK mobile company still use a walled garden?


None that I know of. I'm still waiting to learn about that these marvellous web browsing deals that Apple have 'forced through' for mobile consumers, too.

I find tarannau's claim that "Apple helped plough a hole in the monopoly of the carriers and their terms" even more bizarre too. 

Perhaps he'll be along soon to explain what he meant.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 24, 2008)

In the USA, that assertion has more weight. They've historically been shafted more than us (charged to receive calls and texts for example!)


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Crispy said:


> In the USA, that assertion has more weight. They've historically been shafted more than us (charged to receive calls and texts for example!)


Well, maybe, although I'm not convinced. As I saw it, most of the 'barriers' that were knocked down were corporate ones that ensured a more profitable return for Apple itself rather than the company actively blazing a trail for consumers everywhere. 

Either way, seeing as tarannau - and just about everyone else in this discussion - is in the UK, I'm interested to hear his take on exactly what "impressive terms and deals for web browsing" they forged here because I can't think of any.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Either way, seeing as tarannau - and just about everyone else in this discussion - is in the UK, I'm interested to hear his take on exactly what "impressive terms and deals for web browsing" they forged here because I can't think of any.



Don't you get unlimited internet on it? Not that impressive as its an expensive contract, but a step in the right direction.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 24, 2008)

Crispy's right though, it's more marked in the US. But even here Apple's initial iphone offering was unique - a simple integrated package offering genuinely generous and usable unlimited web access, easy switching to wi-fi networks where available and providing a deal with wifi hotspot providers for free use, and a properly implemented user-focused download store offered by someone other than a carrier, offered as one simple package by the carrier itself. Setting those terms was key, and not an insignificant achievement for your first release in a new market.

Just a quick reminder of the success of the iphone in markedly affecting mobile internet usage patterns:



> And this has been endorsed by the search engine giant Google, who in the recent Mobile World Congress (MWC) has revealed that iPhone originates 50 times more searches than any other mobile handset. This owes credit to the superb user interfaces and simple, structured internet plans in iPhones, which encourage more internet usage in comparison to other mobile services.
> 
> The response of web search from iPhonehas been so overwhelming that Google misinterpreted it as an error and ordered revising of the logs; to realize that the stats were true. There are also reports from Apple’s U.K service provider, O2, which estimated that 60 percent of iPhone users in the U.K send or receive more than 25 MB of data a month.
> 
> In addition, statistics released by AT&T, United States iPhone carrier, the average revenue per iPhone user is almost double that of a person with a standard mobile handset because of the heavier data download rate for the iPhone. Google is optimistic that other handset manufacturers go Apple’s way in making web access easy, the number of mobile searches will overtake fixed internet searches in the next few years


----------



## paolo (Sep 24, 2008)

The O2 iphone data deal is pretty good. Way better than the T-Mobile US offering on their G1. No news yet on the UK. Maybe T-Mobile will match O2, maybe not.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> The O2 iphone data deal is pretty good. Way better than the T-Mobile US offering on their G1. No news yet on the UK. Maybe T-Mobile will match O2, maybe not.


It may be "pretty good" but it was miles behind what other people have been enjoying on other handsets on other networks for years, so there's certainly been no trailblazing by Apple over here. Unlimited data deals have been available well before the iPhone appeared.


tarannau said:


> Just a quick reminder of the success of the iphone in markedly affecting mobile internet usage patterns:


It currently has had a positive impact, but so have other smartphones. Nokia completely pwns the iPhone when it comes to Internet traffic.

The iPhone is now responsible for 7.8% of all smart phone traffic in the U.S., up from 5.2% last month - but this doesn't reflect the actual market share of the iPhone, because iPhone users probably access the web more than other users. 

Incidentally, the Palm Centro is ranked as having well over twice as much traffic as the iPhone at 18.7%.

Source: http://www.admob.com/marketing/pdf/mobile_metrics_aug_08.pdf (PDF)


----------



## paolo (Sep 24, 2008)

Ed...I think you're "joining" my point with another argument.

The US Android T-Mobile bandwidth cap is shit. We have various posters talking about uncapped deals being common. Which means T-Mobile are heading backwards. But until UK policy is announced, it's arguably a moot point.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 24, 2008)

Surely it's the per-handset figure that's more interesting. Of course nokia's going to have a higher total, there's billioins of the things!


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> The US Android T-Mobile bandwidth cap is shit. We have various posters talking about uncapped deals being common. Which means T-Mobile are heading backwards. But until UK policy is announced, it's arguably a moot point.


It could be, but traditionally, US and UK telecom deals have been worlds apart so I'm not going to make any judgement until we actually see what's on offer in the UK.


Crispy said:


> Surely it's the per-handset figure that's more interesting. Of course nokia's going to have a higher total, there's billioins of the things!


Indeed. But then the iPhone is a high end phone designed for browsing so it's hardly a surprise that a load of people are going to use it for that very purpose. It has the best mobile browser, after all.

But Apple certainly didn't blaze any trails when it came to  mobile browsing or data deals in the UK. Tens of millions of users were already regularly using their smartphones to access the web on cheap data deals. I've hammered my data for years and never paid more than my regular cheapo monthly deal.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2008)

*T-Mobile G1 will have "no impact" on iPhone*

Not everyone is convinced this is the best thing since sliced bread:



> The just-announced T-Mobile G1 with Google is unlikely to challenge Apple's iPhone, says investment bank Piper Jaffray.
> 
> "To use a baseball analogy, when Apple comes out with a product, they try to hit homeruns, but Google's Android strategy is swinging for base hits", analyst Gene Munster wrote in a research note.
> 
> "While the G1 is a legitimate competitor with the iPhone, we believe it will have little or no impact on near-term iPhone sales", he said.



It's interesting the anti-Apple reaction the Android phone has caused. I'm sure Google didn't make this OS to beat the iPhone specifically but to be the best out there. That said the anti-iPhone brigade finally have their stick to beat the iPhone with ad nauseum...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 24, 2008)

Or maybe that despite its faults the iphone is one of the most interesting things to happen to the market for years, so when it gets some new competition, then there are going to be comparisons?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Or maybe that despite its faults the iphone is one of the most interesting things to happen to the market for years, so when it gets some new competition, then there are going to be comparisons?



But that would go against the previous view that the iPhone really isn't doing anything new...face it there is a stroppy group of anti Apple folk who've just being dying for something like this so that every time someone dares to talk about the iPhone being cool they can shout it down with pro  Android dross...


----------



## Iam (Sep 24, 2008)

They could just actually both be pretty good devices...

*gets stoned to death*


----------



## Crispy (Sep 24, 2008)

In this business, competition is good. If developers start flocking to Android, Apple might listen to them and open up a bit. Likewise, I'm willing to bet the Android creators have been spurred on by the iphone's innovations and success. in a couple of year's time, it'll be WIN for everyone.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 24, 2008)

Its one of the drivers of innovation that if you come up with something first you get the right to screw as much money out of your intellectual property as you can.

Then one day your patent expires and everyone has a crack at exploiting your idea and prices are driven down.

Without this driver there would sadly be less innovation.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Kid_Eternity;8084113]But that would go against the previous view that the iPhone really isn't doing anything new...face it there is a stroppy group of anti Apple folk who've just being dying for something like this so that every time someone dares to talk about the iPhone being cool they can shout it down with pro  Android dross...[/quote]Who has been "shouting the iPhone" down with "pro Android dross"?[quote=Iam said:


> They could just actually both be pretty good devices...


Course they are. But I tend to get more excited by the less restrictive, less proprietary, less power-mad approach.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

The Android deal just keeps on getting better. The 1GB cap has been removed!



> It looks like T-Mobile is listening folks -- and they appear to be responding. In a statement we've just received from the company, they tell us that they're killing the hard-line approach to data capping, saying instead they'll reserve the right to cap a "small fraction" of users who abuse the network. In their words:
> 
> "Our goal, when the T-Mobile G1 becomes available in October, is to provide affordable, high-speed data service allowing customers to experience the full data capabilities of the device and our 3G network. At the same time, we have a responsibility to provide the best network experience for all of our customers so we reserve the right to temporarily reduce data throughput for a small fraction of our customers who have excessive or disproportionate usage that interferes with our network performance or our ability to provide quality service to all of our customers.
> 
> ...


 Lovely.

And the usually rabidly pro-iPhone Engadget are feeling the love too:


> Let's not mess around: we really like Android. It's not just what it stands for, it's what it is. It really takes that Google simplicity -- which is often at the expense of aesthetics, depending upon your taste -- and turns it into a rather impressive phone OS.
> 
> Lengthy preview here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/24/t-mobile-g1-impressions-what-we-love-what-we-dont/


Not as good as a proper jack, but nice anyway: 





> We were told by T-Mobile reps that an ExtUSB to 3.5mm adapter would be included with the phone to allow for the use of regular earbuds / headphones...


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 25, 2008)

*originally posted in the wrong thread...* 



Global_Stoner said:


> Your not supposed to be able to do that though, they would rather you went to the £10 pm deal on one of their modems. Still allways worked for me. Gutted where I live now I can only get orange.
> 
> 
> 
> I used to get about 324kbs, although never used it enough to find out if they monitored usage, just for the web and email.



It used to be completely unlimited, they only changed it in the last 2months.  Now you get 3gb for your £5, but you can just stick another £5 on it for another 3gb if that runs out.

TBF I was taking the piss with it when it was unlimited, I had a £30 skypephone and using it 24/7 as a permanent internet connection for £5 month. 

Got my eyes on a Skypephone S2 It's got a 3.6mb HSDPA connection plus wifi, and can be used as a wireless dongle. A mere snip at £50 if you buy a pair of em on PAYG.  More features than most smartphones and for the fraction of the price. 

thought I'd post this twice as the deal is too good to miss imo


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 25, 2008)

Very much liking the look of Android as well tbh

Will be happy if I'm able to use one of these phone's on 3's network


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 25, 2008)

> We were told by T-Mobile reps that an ExtUSB to 3.5mm adapter would be included with the phone to allow for the use of regular earbuds / headphones...



God knows why they couldn't have just put a proper jack in it from the start, but I guess this is a step in the right direction.


----------



## fen_boy (Sep 25, 2008)

There's a video here of how contacts, calendar and maps work. Looks pretty swish - I use google apps for pretty much everything already so this would be great for me.
I can sort of see why they haven't bothered with a desktop sync app, just sync to web. (Though obviously you'd still want to be able to copy stuff to your PC)


----------



## Iam (Sep 25, 2008)

editor said:


> Who has been "shouting the iPhone" down with "pro Android dross"?Course they are. But I tend to get more excited by the less restrictive, less proprietary, less power-mad approach.



I totally understand that - I guess I'm just used to being in the lockdown world of IT... Microsoft, Cisco, etc.

I also think that you probably use your handsets in a much more serious way than I do.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

I like their piss taking TV ad too: 

After Apple decided to tag their phone the “funnest” ever, Google's ad declares the G1 to be, "funnerer, smarterer, and conecteder."


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

Looks like Sony Ericsson are eyeing up the Android platform now...

_President Dick Komiyama told journos at a event in the southern Swedish city of Lund: "We are certainly studying this opportunity [Android], although we're not in a position to do this at this moment,"

"We should look at this application," he said. "We are certainly interested." _

Elsewhere, SanDisk's 16GB microSDHC card is now available for purchase for around £45 - perfect for the G1.

Oh, and the SDK is available: http://gizmodo.com/5054472/download-android-10-sdknow


----------



## nick h. (Sep 25, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> there is a stroppy group of anti Apple folk



I would stop being stroppy and just admire Apple for their elegant designs if they would stop being such Nazis and let other companies into their market. I'm amazed by the stunts they pull. Who else could launch a phone in this day and age without a removable battery? My sister used hers to navigate around London for 2 hours the other day and the battery was nearly extinguished. How are you supposed to depend on the damn thing unless you're dragging a few square yards of solar panels around? And what does it say about the human race that people will queue around the block all night to buy a phone that they will have to send back to Apple when the battery conks out? Eh? Eh?


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Now carriers may well be more willing to work with handset manufacturers and alternative OSs, perhaps even increasingly offering less walled-garden services and better access to things like VOIP. OK, maybe that's a little hopeful


Time to take off your rose-tinted spectacles. When it comes to 'walled gardens', Apple's something of a leader in the mobile world:


> *Things are rosy in Apple's walled garden - for some*
> 
> Can a platform have gatekeepers? That is, can you define as a platform something that has gatekeepers? I think not: if it's got people who stop stuff going in, you call it a "walled garden".
> 
> ...


----------



## TwoTimer (Sep 25, 2008)

editor said:


> Wow! There's a bar code app - scan the product you're interested in when you're shopping and it'll give you comparative prices !



Nokia might be doing better than that. With the Nokia version, you only have to take a picture of the product or restuarant or whatever and it will give you back prices, reviews etc...it's going to be mental, the server will do all the hard work etc. However, let's face it...1 picture being uploaded then processed by the server, with a possiblity of an error, is going to take longer than sending back a simple number from a barcode...

I'm no Nokia fanboy, but I'm going to see how the Nokia "Tube" fares up. Besides, I have a 16 months to go before my next smartphone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2008)

fen_boy said:


> There's a video here of how contacts, calendar and maps work. Looks pretty swish - I use google apps for pretty much everything already so this would be great for me.
> I can sort of see why they haven't bothered with a desktop sync app, just sync to web. (Though obviously you'd still want to be able to copy stuff to your PC)



Heh nice top, reminds me of Wayne's World when they joke about not doing product placement!


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2008)

If you fancy some reading, here's the G1 PDF manuals:

http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm30235.pdf
http://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm30234.pdf?&A2L.SERVICE=Manual

Cool - it has a flashing status light for connectivity. I like them. There's support for 5 email accounts, MMS, threaded SMS, easy to remove memory cards and the phone can be used as a USB mass storage medium.


----------



## Private Storm (Sep 26, 2008)

TwoTimer said:


> I'm no Nokia fanboy, but I'm going to see how the Nokia "Tube" fares up. Besides, I have a 16 months to go before my next smartphone.



I'm going to a Nokia launch event next week that is for the Tube (I think!). Will report back afterwards.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 27, 2008)

I'm a bit concerned at the limited number of handset manufacturers.  LG and Samsung are the best of the bunch, with HTC next though they have been improving in recent years.

Sony above don't have any plans yet to that is just blue sky.  Takes a year or two to go from inception to actual boxed product.

Motorola. Argg. 

Four isn't very many and everything depends on these guys producing reliable hardware for this operating system to run on.

Heh they have a demo of cut and paste using long press.  But its doing whole fields and that's not so useful really.  Its cutting from the browser to email or a bit of email to another email.

They seem to feel that they need to attack the iPhone at every possibility.  This is starting to wear thin now.  If the phone is good it will do well all by itself.  There is no point in attacking the iPhone because all the people that have one can't change for a good while yet and people that don't have one also have no idea what these people are going on about.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 27, 2008)

That's a fair few, especially if they launch several handsets which run it. Is Motorola hardware that bad? I thought it was poor OS design that let them down. I had an A1000 about 4 years, which was quite ahead of its time, it was running symbian, had opera and wasn't that bad at all.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 27, 2008)

Post up a 'Do you like Motorola mobile phones' in general and see the reaction you get.

Thats assuming they will build a few each, but in the beginning this is a new OS for a new market that may or may not be very big.  At the start I doubt you'd get more than one each.  Some may be waiting for how the others do before they start making them.

I expect that Google fronted some of the cash for HTC to get them to build the handset.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I'm a bit concerned at the limited number of handset manufacturers.  LG and Samsung are the best of the bunch, with HTC next though they have been improving in recent years.


They may seen 'limited' to you, but it's actually a very powerful consortium of major players.

HTC are one of the biggest phone manufacturers in the world with a fast-growing reputation for creating cutting edge phones (see HTC HD).

Samsung are one of the biggest electronics firms on the planet. LG are massive and Motorola are still one of the biggest names in the phone industry in the States.

And, of course, there's also the involvement of enormous companies like Google. And eBay, Intel, nVidia, Texas, Qualcomm, SiRF etx etc.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 27, 2008)

Having only used the one Motorola it was a genuine question. Is it the software or hardware that lets them down? If its software, then a new OS may be what they need, if they break to easily then it won't fix it.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2008)

Another interesting development - Visa has unveiled their plans to develop a Payment Software for Android phones to let users monitor their transactions and use location-based services to find the nearest store or ATM machine. 



> For future owners of the T-Mobile G1 and other upcoming Android phones, Visa will at first include three services, Alerts, Offers and Locator, which will be available for download before the end of the year.
> 
> With Alerts consumers will receive what Visa calls "near real-time" notification of purchase activity, based on rules defined by the cardholder.
> 
> ...



The software will be available around December and is being described a, "big step in making Android phone a platform for business use." There's also a Nokia app coming.

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent...op_applications_for_android_nokia_phones.html


----------



## Sunray (Sep 27, 2008)

They are not a very powerful at all apart from Motorola in the US(only).  Remember being a member of the alliance does not sign you up to producing hardware.  Nokia or Sony need to make a phone.  When they do the rest of the world sit up and take notice.

I can nearly guarantee that Google has fronted some serious cash to HTC to get that produced.  There is no way on earth that HTC would have stuck their neck out that far and US companies are traditionally much greater risk takers than Asian countries. Out of four manufacturers, three are Asian.  

Apple are in the same market with all their marketing might and have over a years head start.   You cannot tell me that that isn't a slight concern someone isn't going to be left holding a wooden spoon and a lot of handsets.  

I wait and see how the hardware pans out because Android lives and dies on the hardware.  I see mention that Motorola are hiring Android developers so I wait with interest but we all know thats going to be shit don't we.

Google should stop copying Apple as well.  Come up with their own marketing and distinct brand for the product.   Talk about blantent plagarisim on the adverts/demos.  My 1st though when seeing them is that its an Apple ad.  It looks quite similar as does the Phone at a casual glance and people might mistake it for one.  See and android ad and go buy an iPhone.

These sorts of videos aren't good either.


Its a geek phone. 




editor said:


> They may seen 'limited' to you, but it's actually a very powerful consortium of major players.
> 
> HTC are one of the biggest phone manufacturers in the world with a fast-growing reputation for creating cutting edge phones (see HTC HD).
> 
> ...



Those companies are hardware manufacturers and will prostitute themselves anywhere if they think it will get an order.  I can say for certain that nVidia will have done nothing for this other than have a mobile phone graphics chip set. Oh look,

http://www.itpro.co.uk/164892/mwc-2008-nvidia-re-enters-mobile-phone-space-with-new-cpu


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 27, 2008)

Does it need its own phone or could companies adapt some of their WM6 mobiles to run it?


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> They are not a very powerful at all apart from Motorola in the US(only).


What?!!! HTC are fucking huge - #3 global tech company in 2006 - and it makes total business sense for them to use an operating system that comes without licensing fees.

And Samsung are even bigger - they're one of the top 60 companies on the planet (Apple are way down in 178th place).


Sunray said:


> Google should stop copying Apple as well. Come up with their own marketing and distinct brand for the product.


What's the best app on the iPhone (or any phone, for that matter)? Why, that'll be Googlemaps. 

Google are doing anything_ but_ copy Apple in the approach to the mobile market.

Global Stoner: at the moment it's not possible to retro fit Android onto WM6 - but it's all open source, so it may happen.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 27, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Does it need its own phone or could companies adapt some of their WM6 mobiles to run it?



No idea, possibly when they release it as Open Source, I expect that to be attempted.  Perhaps someone will convert the front end to run on WM6?  The buttons at the bottom need to be labelled like that HTC I think, but there are various hardware configurations Android will support. 

This is my other concern and I am not the only one saying it.  Having one OS that is supported by a variety of hardware means that any message about how great the OS is, becomes diluted by the fact that not all Android phones support all its great features.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Having one OS that is supported by a variety of hardware means that any message about how great the OS is, becomes diluted by the fact that not all Android phones support all its great features.


Why do you think Windows became the #1 operating system on the planet?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 27, 2008)

OK, you can believe what ever you want. Being huge is meaningless because it may well come off the back of making phones for other manufacturers.  They are Taiwanese after and that is what the Taiwanese are brilliant at.

The best app for the iPhone is the iPod application by some considerable margin.  



editor said:


> What?!!! HTC are fucking huge - #3 global tech company in 2006 - and it makes total business sense for them to use an operating system that comes without licensing fees.
> 
> And Samsung are even bigger - they're one of the top 60 companies on the planet (Apple are way down in 178th place).
> What's the best app on the iPhone (or any phone, for that matter)? Why, that'll be Googlemaps.
> ...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> No idea, possibly when they release it as Open Source, I expect that to be attempted.  Perhaps someone will convert the front end to run on WM6?  The buttons at the bottom need to be labelled like that HTC I think, but there are various hardware configurations Android will support.



I was thinking more companies making minor changes to their existing phones (like the buttons), rather then spending lots developing new handsets, as opposed to home brew conversions.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 27, 2008)

editor said:


> Why do you think Windows became the #1 operating system on the planet?



Apples and pears.  Very rich from someone who criticised me for comparing the Apple closed model to consoles as not comparing like for like.  I also think you miss my point.

PC were expandable and configurable and made from all sorts of sources.  Windows supported all these manufactures which is a good thing from their perspective but causes developers a real headache.  Least the mouse and keyboard are standard.

Not so on this platform. You buy a mobile phone with Android, you see the G1 has a touch screen, well it doesn't have to have one, or a proper keyboard, GPS, camera etc.  There is quite a variety it will support, I think they want it to go onto low end phones.  

I mentioned many posts back this can cause issues with app development and dilutes the Android brand because your life times work application will not work on all phones. People get confused, seeing that app in the software store greyed out because they don't have the handset its compatible with.  You can't do anything but upgrade the phone.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 27, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> I was thinking more companies making minor changes to their existing phones (like the buttons), rather then spending lots developing new handsets, as opposed to home brew conversions.



On reflection, it would require the phone manufacturer to put out the full specification of the hardware for it to be possible.  

All the Android apps are Java so they are cross platform, but the API they use hook into the OS and that require conversion to the hardware because it would have to be recompiled to target the phones CPU.  ARM is a common platform but those CPU's are often customised for each handset/manufacturer.

I doubt manufacturers are too willing to open up their platforms to that level of scrutiny.  Best bet would be to write a abstraction layer for Android onto WM6. Hard because it uses an event driven model which is very different from Linux.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 27, 2008)

So "Android will be open source", but it isn't yet as the source code hasn't been released openly, and there's no indication when that might happen.

It is going to be licensed under the Apache license which has no copyleft clause, so manufacturers can add proprietary functionality to or remove existing functionality from their products based on Android without needing to contribute anything back to the platform. That allows lots of flexibility but also means that it'll be difficult to guarantee what facilities any 3rd party software will have access to on any given device.

At the moment it's as "open source" in the true sense of the term as the Palm OS, Mobile OS X, WM6, Symbian or even Windows.

The real change that Android brings is that it lowers the barrier to entry for new phone handset manufacturers as they no longer need to develop their phone OS, they just have to sort out UI and hardware design.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> On reflection, it would require the phone manufacturer to put out the full specification of the hardware for it to be possible.
> 
> All the Android apps are Java so they are cross platform, but the API they use hook into the OS and that require conversion to the hardware because it would have to be recompiled to target the phones CPU.  ARM is a common platform but those CPU's are often customised for each handset/manufacturer.
> 
> I doubt manufacturers are too willing to open up their platforms to that level of scrutiny.  Best bet would be to write a abstraction layer for Android onto WM6. Hard because it uses an event driven model which is very different from Linux.



Hmmm, I think I'm being thick here. What's to stop for instance HTC putting out to versions of the touch, one with WM6 and one with Android, kind of like Palm do with the their OS and WM? Does Android require manufacture to open up their platform, more so then WM6 if HTC put the API's in place?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2008)

editor said:


> What's the best app on the iPhone (or any phone, for that matter)? Why, that'll be Googlemaps.
> 
> .




No it's not the best app on most phones is email, followed closely by some sort of PIM app...


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No it's not the best app on most phones is email, followed closely by some sort of PIM app...


You're saying the iPhone's mail app - which is basic to say the least - is a more impressive app than GoogleMaps with its MyLocation, directions, local services, traffic and satellite mapping?

LOL.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I mentioned many posts back this can cause issues with app development and dilutes the Android brand because your life times work application will not work on all phones.


The vast majority of people don't give a hoot about the Android 'brand'. 

All they care about is having a phone that's affordable, suits their needs, does what they ask of it, doesn't cost a fortune and is easy to use.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2008)

editor said:


> You're saying the iPhone's mail app - which is basic to say the least - is a more impressive app than GoogleMaps with its MyLocation, directions, local services, traffic and satellite mapping?
> 
> LOL.



You're criteria for best is obviously different from most of humanity.  I'd rather have fully functioning email and an a-z then no email and wizzy bang Google maps with street view!


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You're criteria for best is obviously different from most of humanity.  I'd rather have fully functioning email and an a-z then no email and wizzy bang Google maps with street view!


The point being: basic email clients are ten a penny (in fact you don't even need an email client - you can read it all online).

Revolutionary mapping technology with satellite views, location-based services, street views, routing and mobile search are not. That is why I believe that Googlemaps is the greatest mobile app and points the way to the future.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2008)

Looks like Motorola are taking Android very seriously indeed: they've just ramped up their dedicated staff from 50 to 350, while rumours of Nokia's involvement continue.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10053270-94.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2008)

editor said:


> The point being: basic email clients are ten a penny (in fact you don't even need an email client - you can read it all online).
> 
> Revolutionary mapping technology with satellite views, location-based services, street views, routing and mobile search are not. That is why I believe that Googlemaps is the greatest mobile app and points the way to the future.



But as I say you're definition of best is the point. I use email every day, I have about four different accounts. And like most people email is a 'better' application than a map (no matter how many snazzy things that map may do).


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> But as I say you're definition of best is the point. I use email every day, I have about four different accounts. And like most people email is a 'better' application than a map (no matter how many snazzy things that map may do).


Clearly email is useful, but creating an email client - particularly one as basic as the iPhone's - is hardly pushing the envelope of mobile technology. In fact, the iPhone's email app is not even the best mobile email client available.

But an app - and a free one at that - that is capable of serving up hugely detailed maps, directions, satellite views, live traffic updates, location fixes, street views, transit directions, transit times with a whole skew of location based services coming up is the thing that will truly make the mobile experience worthwhile. All, IMO, of course.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 29, 2008)

The map's got the 'wow' factor though, and that shouldn't be underestimated when it comes to purchase decisions.

There was a fairly decent comparison of the G1 vs the iphone in one of the major newspapers (Guardian iirc). On paper the G1 was better, but the reviewer gave it to the iphone on balance - simply because the UI and multitouch made it feel more intuitive and impressive somehow, even if the G1 had functionality on its side.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2008)

tarannau said:


> There was a fairly decent comparison of the G1 vs the iphone in one of the major newspapers (Guardian iirc). On paper the G1 was better, but the reviewer gave it to the iphone on balance - simply because the UI and multitouch made it feel more intuitive and impressive somehow, even if the G1 had functionality on its side.


I'd agree with that, but I think that's going to change when more Android phones are released and exciting new apps come through. 

Personally, I prefer more functionality, more 'fiddle-ability' and open source goodness than Apple's hugely impressive (but massively restricted) offering.

Besides, from what I've seen to date there's not a whole load of difference between the Android and Apple's interface - both seem highly usable and way ahead of WM and Blackberry. Crucially, Android is still very new so we can expect a whole load of development on the horizon.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 29, 2008)

It was the little touches - the pinch and zoom multitouch on the iphone browser for example, that differentiated it rather than the apps.

Apple's got an advantage on the consistent, 'wow' UI, but Android's a better platform for the fiddlers and a big potential upside for future apps using Google's massive size/market reach. Either way, it's not a bad offering for the consumer - they're far better than what's come before.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2008)

tarannau said:


> It was the little touches - the pinch and zoom multitouch on the iphone browser for example, that differentiated it rather than the apps.


It may fail to 'wow' the eye candy freaks, but I think I'd find a 'back' hardware button and a proper QWERTY keyboard nicer touches myself. The compass-aware street view is pretty much full of 'wow' too, come to think of it.

Check out the emulator G1 here: http://tmobile.modeaondemand.com/htc/g1/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2008)

I like the slide out qwerty but really don't like the way it's whole top doesn't slide, just looks odd like a prototype or test device to me...


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

Get this: *1.5 million* T-Mobile G1s have already pre-ordered!



> Prepare for an epic showdown between two gnarly gunslingers when the first Google (Nasdaq: GOOG) Android phone hits the streets in a couple of weeks. The first shipment of the T-Mobile (NYSE: DT) G1 sold out through preorders from existing T-Mobile subscribers, so the company tripled its order to Taiwanese handset maker HTC. The bigger batch sold out, too.
> 
> That means that about 1.5 million G1s are destined to fill preorder sales, in addition to another couple of million sets being earmarked for retail sales. It's a far cry from the 10 million second-generation iPhones Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) originally hoped to sell this year -- it may already have reached that goal, according to the Silicon Valley rumor mill -- but it's a heck of a rush for an unproven software concept on never-before-seen hardware.
> 
> http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2008/10/09/google-were-fresh-out-of-androids.aspx



And this you have to respect:





> I don't see Google going for Apple's throat here, but the search giant's commitment to this vision is real. The company paid out $10 million to the winners of an Android application development contest -- *but won't take a dime out of the applications' sales. *Instead, Google wins when more people use the Web.


----------



## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

So Google will do the transacting on their app store for free? If so, that's incredibly generous. In fact they'll lose money on every sale, due to card charges. The more successful it is, the more they lose.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> So Google will do the transacting on their app store for free? If so, that's incredibly generous. In fact they'll lose money on every sale, due to card charges. The more successful it is, the more they lose.


It certainly looks a zillion times better than Apple's hugely restrictive, walled garden, secretive approval system. There'll be free trials too!

I think details are still emerging though.


> Rubin’s message: Google won’t impose many of the restrictions Apple developers have been grumbling about. Unlike iPhone aficionados, developers using Android Market will, for example, be able to allow consumers to try their applications for free before they buy them. This may seem like a small thing, but developers name lack of free trial as one of the biggest reasons behind their lukewarm App Store sales.
> 
> Android Market also won’t place limits on how much bandwidth a given application may use up. T-Mobile G1 phone launch partner, T-Mobile USA, just announced that it will ask developers whose free apps take up more than 15 Megabytes of bandwidth per user per month to pay it a $2 monthly fee. Since G1 users will be downloading apps from the Android Market, which offers no such restrictions, that policy, it seems to me, may be difficult to enforce.
> 
> ...


All 100% win for consumers on the face of things.


----------



## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

So it's not being run by Google, it's being run by T-Mobile, who haven't yet announced what slice of revenue they will be taking.

In which case, saying that Google won't charge for using T-Mobile's store is meaningless. O2 don't charge developers for using Apple's store. And that's equally irrelevant.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2008)

Certainly looks impressive, will be interesting to see how it works in practice...


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> So it's not being run by Google, it's being run by T-Mobile, who haven't yet announced what slice of revenue they will be taking.
> 
> In which case, saying that Google won't charge for using T-Mobile's store is meaningless. O2 don't charge for developers using Apple's store. And that's equally irrelevant.


The* only *way a developer can distribute an iPhone app is through Apple's walled-garden store. And for that privilege - assuming Apple haven't elected to reject their hard work for reasons which they're not allowed to discuss, of course - the company takes a big fat juicy slice for themselves.

See the difference?


----------



## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

So, the store which will, in all likelyhood, account for 99% of the sales, has no announced margin.

It may, of course, take less than Apple. It may take none at all. But at present that's not known - so until then, it's not free. It's not anything. When the details emerge, then a comparison can be made - to make one before then is simply projecting a view of how one would like it to be.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> So, the store which will, in all likelyhood, account for 99% of the sales....


What are you basing that figure on?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> When the details emerge, then a comparison can be made - to make one before then is simply projecting a view of how one would like it to be.



Yep, a good and fair point. That's the basis for my approach to this, too many people seem to be viewing it as it stands through the speculation of what it could be at some future point (with no clear time frame too boot)...


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## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

editor said:


> What are you basing that figure on?



Let's take an easier amount to agree on: "the majority of sales". But let's imagine, for the sake of argument, it isn't going to exist at all. That the market will be serviced by a variety of independent stores.

Again, saying that Google won't charge is meaningless.

What _will_ the stores charge?

Without these stores, and without the charges being known, there is nothing (yet) to compare with Apple - in anything other than a wishful sense.


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## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Without these stores, and without the charges being known, there is nothing (yet) to compare with Apple - in anything other than a wishful sense.


Surely the whole issue is that Android won't be forcibly taking a large chunk of cash from developers faced with a monopolistic channel for legally distributing their work? And if the work is open source, they can distribute it how they like.

Moreover, there won't be a secret committee rejecting their hard work with a gag order stopping all discussion on the reasons why. 

I'd say they're two very notable differentiators between the two company's approach, and I'd argue that Android's is far healthier for both developers and consumers.


----------



## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

Again you are talking about Android stores in the present tense, and forecasting perfect-market, where price points are found through natural competition.

No different then than the free market beauty of digital music. Which is far from the beautiful utopia you predict. And yet it shares all the qualities you have just described.

This doesn't mean the Android approach is wrong, or inferior, simply that it may not be the dream world of equality that you are expecting it to be.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> This doesn't mean the Android approach is wrong, or inferior, simply that it may not be the dream world of equality that you are expecting it to be.


I'm not expecting a "dream world of equality" but what's on offer is certainly beginning to look better than Apple's walled garden, control-freak approach - and seeing as Apple are making great strides in the market, anything that challenges their proprietary, secretive practices has to be a good thing.


----------



## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

I'd certainly agree that Apple needs challenges.

But I think it's worth scratching the surface a little. If we look at the apps Apple has refused - well I only know of three. That alone though isn't the point. There should be none. What is more interesting though is that 2 of them (1 certainly, 1 I'm fairly sure) had re ability to saturate their 3g connection.

So, will the operators allow such apps on Android? On unlimited-use tarriffs?

What I'm trying to get at here is that when you look at Apple's restrictive practices, it's worth looking for pointers as to how things _might_ not be so good in the Android world, either. Be a little sceptical. The press-releases won't do that for you.


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## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> What I'm trying to get at here is that when you look at Apple's restrictive practices, it's worth looking for pointers as to how things _might_ not be so good in the Android world, either.


I don't think everything is going to be rosy in the Android world, but I'd be very, *very* surprised if the community that they're relying on to create the apps needed to make it a success would put up with Apple's control freak-approach.

For example, Palm doesn't block or enforce pre-approval for developer's applications, neither does it demand that all apps can only be sold through their own cash-creaming store. Folks can download free and commercial Palm software from all manner of sources and that approach ensured that Palm still has the highest number of apps available.

I'd say Android's approach is going to lean far towards the Palm model than Apple's. Least I hope so seeing as Apple's megalomaniac approach is not good for some consumers and developers.


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## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

It's possible, but at the moment the prospect of provider specific stores, pricing and usage restrictions is possibly one step forwards, one step back.

For small developers, the 'freedom' to deal with multiple stores in multiple markets, may actually be a barrier.

In the medium term though, I'm sure there will be just a few dominant global stores. Even that could be optimistic, if one were to take books, digital music or auctions as indicative. ITunes store, Amazon and eBay all work in a free uncontrolled market. But they are very nearly as much monopolies as the Apple App store. The difference in principal is substantial, the real difference - to the consumer or supplier - is so little as to be almost immeasurable, one could argue.


----------



## subversplat (Oct 12, 2008)

I'm hoping the guys and gals at the xda developer forum manage to shoehorn this os into the Touch Diamond. I love the phone but the WM is a bit annoying


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## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Even that could be optimistic, if one were to take books, digital music or auctions as indicative. ITunes store, Amazon and eBay all work in a free uncontrolled market. But they are very nearly as much monopolies as the Apple App store. The difference in principal is substantial, the real difference - to the consumer or supplier - is so little as to be almost immeasurable, one could argue.


No, they're not. I can buy a book from a huge selection of retailers from major stores down to internet shops and tiny one-man stores in a huge variety of countries, but I can only buy iPhone apps from Apple _and no one else. _

And if Apple decide that they don't like a particular app for some secret reason, I can't get it from anywhere.

I'd say that's a pretty substantial difference myself.


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## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

As a seller - it's moot. If your book isn't on Amazon, your music on iTunes, or auction on eBay - it _very nearly_ doesn't exist, and you certainly don't have any leverage to get a better deal from them.

In terms of banned apps, again, the assumption here is that the carriers - who actually provide the bandwidth - will have no restrictions. That's quite a leap of faith.

I certainly agree that it's better to have an open marketplace - what I do contest is whether it will be as open as any of us might hope.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> If your book isn't on Amazon, your music on iTunes, or auction on eBay - it _very nearly_ doesn't exist, and you certainly don't have any leverage to get a better deal from them.


I can't agree with that _at all. _

Most of the books I buy aren't from from Amazon. I rarely buy stuff off eBay and I usually buy software from independent developers. I mainly buy records from real life music stores or sometimes independent internet outlets if they happen to be the only people stocking it. I've used a Palm for years and never bought anything directly from the company.

I think your attempts to draw parallels with Apple's dictatorial "us or no-one" approach really aren't valid.


----------



## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

There's two places to come from in this. Either as an outsider, speculating (to an extent, you and me both) or as an actual user, saying "well, yes, but for me".

You can't transpose your experience with Palm (or undeed other wares) and say, "so that's how it will be for Android, for everyone".

In broad Market sense, your experience isn't typical. Most people don't do what you do. There's nothing wrong in that, but it's not a basis to evaluate the market. The three retailers I mention dominate their markets. No amount of personal anecdotes will stop that from being a fact.


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## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> You can't transpose your experience with Palm (or undeed other wares) and say, "so that's how it will be for Android, for everyone".


At no point have I made such a claim, but your insistence that "Amazon and eBay are very nearly as much monopolies as the Apple App store" really is utter tosh.

You can *ONLY* buy iPhone apps from the Apple's store _and nowhere else_, and an application's availability to the public is entirely dependent on Mr Jobs allowing them to exist on his store, whereas millions of products on Amazon and eBay are freely available elsewhere from a vast multitude of outlets in countries and stores all around the world - with the punter deciding how 'useful' they might be.

It's ridiculous to compare such world wide availability of products with the AppStore's approval-required, walled garden, proprietary approach.


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## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

Android's open market - as we percieve it - it is ubdoubtedly a better model. But, coming back to the original point - that Google won't charge for other people's stores, is irrelevant. You say it's significant - I'm saying it's potentially insignificant. Until we know what the stores will charge, and what they will allow, you can't compare.

Do you know what the stores will charge, and what they will allow?


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## paolo (Oct 12, 2008)

Hint: if I was developing for mobile, I'd rush to do what Apple has banned. For starters:

- Tethering (on unlimited tariffs.)
- VOIP
- "All you can drink" downloading of free stuff, e.g. Podcasts.

Can anyone develop these for Android?

I know one T-Mobile person said they'd turn a blind eye to tethering. That's good. But it's not good enough. I'd like a genuinely open field, not one that's open in the press releases and a bit less open in reality.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Hint: if I was developing for mobile, I'd rush to do what Apple has banned. For starters:
> 
> - Tethering (on unlimited tariffs.)
> - VOIP
> ...


You can get all of the above  on Windows Mobile and Palm - subject to your own data contract deals - so I can't see why they shouldn't become available on Android.


----------



## paolo (Oct 13, 2008)

On unlimited tariffs, which of those will be available for Android?


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> On unlimited tariffs, which of those will be available for Android?


I've no idea, but seeing as it won't be tied to one network - on pain of bricking - like certain smartphones, you'll be free to seek out the best deal.


> Yes, even if you pay $399 for a contract-less phone, you've still gotta have an active account for 90 days to have T-Mobile unlock it.
> 
> Of course, as we noted before, if you're just interested in unlocking the G1 you really won't have to worry about this at all: Developers can (and probably will, we're betting within a couple of days after the launch) totally put an unlocking application in the Android Market—it won't be blocked or pulled down.
> 
> ...





> We had a chance to speak with T-Mobile CTO Cole Brodman after the event today, and he had some illuminating -- and frankly refreshing -- takes on some of our more pressing questions. When asked about what T-Mobile's reaction would be to users creating tethering or unlocking apps for the phone, he was surprisingly even-keeled, noting that while the company didn't encourage the practice, they wouldn't lock down the OS or update the software to break those applications.
> 
> Our impression was that as long as their use was relegated to a small percentage of owners, T-Mobile likely wouldn't take action, though he did voice concerns over tethering apps and their effect on the network, with a clearly guarded eye to letting users have free reign. More interestingly, buyers would be able to have access to a "contract free" G1 (with a price point of $399), and could unlock the device with T-Mobile's blessing after 90 days.
> 
> Brodman also said that the company's policy of unlocking phones for customers in good standing wouldn't change for this phone.


More: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/


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## paolo (Oct 13, 2008)

Nice cut and paste. I can't do that 

So I'll ask again, with more emphasis:

Which of those do _you_ think will be available?

My guess is some maybe, some maybe not. The idea that everyone can anything, and for no cost, I think is naive.


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## editor (Oct 13, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> So I'll ask again, with more emphasis:
> 
> Which of those do _you_ think will be available?
> 
> My guess is some maybe, some maybe not. The idea that everyone can anything, and for no cost, I think is naive.


Again, I don't think everything is going to be free'n'rosy in the Android world, but everything I've seen so far suggests that it will be far, far better than Apple's walled garden solution, and more like the Palm model. 

It's obviously going to cost _something_ for users burning up a ton of bandwidth, but seeing as I can already tether my Centro, download a ton of stuff with no bother and quite possibly get a form of VOIP going (if I could be arsed) then I can't see any reason why Android can't do the same. 

The bottom line is that whatever network Android users end up on, they'll have to pay something for their data use. The big difference is, of course, that they'll be able to choose what apps to put on their phone and choose what networks they connect to.


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## paolo (Oct 13, 2008)

Lots more to say, but I hope you agree to a gentlemanly intermission - I'm dozing off due to a big weekend


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## editor (Oct 13, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Lots more to say, but I hope you agree to a gentlemanly intermission - I'm dozing off due to a big weekend


Of course. We're only chewing the fat after all!


----------



## Sunray (Oct 14, 2008)

i'm assuming that the Software store is going to be run by the operator or can people choose from an array of software stores?

If its run by the operator then I can see that there is clearly the idea that they can organise it how they like in terms of charging and what is and isn't available to download.  I would assume tho, that like WM and unlike Apple you can just install stuff via the USB cable.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2008)

Firm but fair review here: http://gizmodo.com/5062977/t+mobile-g1-google-android-phone-review



> Verdict
> The G1 phone and the Android operating system are not finished products. There are only three working Google Apps here—Gmail, Maps and Calendar—while Google Docs, Google News, Google Reader, Google Shopping, Google Images, Google Video, Blogger and Picasa are nowhere to be found. What's the deal?
> 
> We have high hopes for third-party coders to fill in gaps Google intentionally or unintentionally left in this OS. There's already a video player, and we're sure VLC will try and port some kind of version over. But your question is not whether the phone will be great down the line, it's whether or not it's good enough for you to buy it now.
> ...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 16, 2008)

Hmmm, I didn't realise there was no GoogleDocs on it (yet), that's a bit of a fucker from my point of view.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2008)

Another review: http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review-part-1-hardware/


> Wrap-up
> 
> The G1 isn't going to blow anyone's mind right out of the gate. Looking only at the hardware, there's nothing here that's particularly impressive, yet nothing that's particularly bad (though the GPS needs some work). It's a fine, solidly designed device that has enough style to please most users -- but it won't win a ton of beauty pageants. Think of it this way: if it were running Windows Mobile, it'd be a footnote in HTC's history.
> 
> ...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 16, 2008)

I'm liking this bit:



> the coolest feature here, though, is the security warning for each app you download. Android can determine what potentially sensitive features of your phone the app will have access to, which should theoretically help you make smarter decisions about the kinds of things you're comfortable downloading (and by whom they're published). It gets really in-depth, too -- it doesn't just tell you that the app has access to your personal information, for example; it tells you that it can read contacts and calendar entries


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## editor (Oct 16, 2008)

This may be something that heavy Google users are going to love:


> Assuming you're already an established Google user, you pop in your Google Account username and password (Google Apps domain accounts work to), and as Steve Jobs would say, BOOM!—you've got your email, contacts list, calendar events, the whole shebang on your phone, over the air, synced with the cloud, no contact with your computer necessary. This wasn't even close to the experience I had with my iPhone, which has required several email account setups and re-setups, and not a small amount of tinkering with my address book and syncing to my computer to get everything as it should be.
> 
> In the course of four days, I still haven't connected the G1 to my computer—everything I need is in the cloud at Google and on the phone, period. This is why heavy Google apps users will want Android.
> 
> ...


The consensus seems to be that this is a potentially *incredible* phone and OS, once the apps fulfil its promise.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 16, 2008)

I'm using Google for pretty much everything now - email, address book, docs (I haven't used Office for months) and I'm on the process of shifting my calendar over as well.

The lack of docs on the G1 is the show stopper for me atm, but I can't imagine it'll be long before they get that sorted.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2008)

editor said:


> This may be something that heavy Google users are going to love:
> The consensus seems to be that this is a potentially *incredible* phone and OS, once the apps fulfil its promise.



Would get excited if it had desktop sync, at the moment the way they do contact syncing is shit because importing contacts into Gmail doesn't work properly...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2008)

*T-Mobile Probably Did Not Sell 1.5 Million G1 Pre-Orders*

Proof that people will buy into any old bullshit if it's in their interest.



> Did the announcement that T-Mobile sold 1.5 million G1 pre-orders sound a little too fantastic to be true? Information Week thought so and talked to the guy behind the astronomical number—a mathematician at The Motley Fool. Turns out that some iffy multiplication may have been involved and the number of pre-orders sold is probably closer to 200,000 to 300,000. Big, but not crazy big.
> 
> I contacted Anders Bylund, the author of the original Motley Fool article that hundreds of stories are citing. I was curious as to how he got these figures and he gave me his rationale.
> He cited a Cens.com article that said, "according to industry insiders, T-Mobile is planning to order a total of between 1.5 million and 2 million units of G1 with HTC in the near future, including 400,000 to 500,000 to be sold in the fourth quarter of this year."
> Then, Bylund cited T-Mobile selling out of pre-order units, and tripling the number of phones initially available. He then tripled the 500,000 number to get 1.5 million.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Proof that people will buy into any old bullshit if it's in their interest


Why would it be in the interest of the mathematician at The Motley Fool who came up with the estimate?

(*sorry if I snipped some of your post by accident - I pressed edit instead of reply and started typing)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2008)

editor said:


> Why would it be in the interest of the mathematician at The Motley Fool who came up with the estimate?
> 
> (*sorry if I snipped some of your post by accident - I pressed edit instead of reply and started typing)



I was referring to the way a load of sites have snapped up that 1.5 million number.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2008)

editor said:


> Another review: http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/16/t-mobile-g1-review-part-1-hardware/



Oh man: 



> Problem is, most people that use Gmail aren't also actively using and managing Google Contacts. The app regularly gets panned as a tacked-on afterthought in Gmail, and we'll just say it straight out: *it's truly awful. If you've used it, you know what we're talking about -- it makes managing contacts a laborious pain, and provides only the bare minimum of tools to get your info in order. Like it or not, you're joined to it at the hip the moment you make this platform a part of your life*. If you're not keeping on top of it, it'll automatically add entries for anyone it decides you're emailing frequently, which means that over time you end up with this massive, unruly, and essentially useless list of email addresses. By default, this junk all gets transferred to your phone, making for an intimidating, frustrating experience the first time you open your little black book from the G1. It's easy to create a new group of Android-specific contacts -- and smartly, the phone also allows you to show only contacts that have phone number associated with them -- but we would've liked to have seen a wizard either on the web or phone side that makes cleaning up your contact list a breeze.


That's a real deal breaker for me, I am tempted by the phone but unless Google can match Outlook or Agendus in terms of how contacts are managed I won't be getting an Android powered phone any time soon. Shame really because so much else of it is starting to look quite appealing...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 16, 2008)

That's a shame, although hopefully android will force them to sort it out as more people start to use it. 

One thing I like about my Nokia/Windows Address Book/Hotmail combo is how easily the same address book can be shared between them, so I can keep a backup on my pc and if I lose my phone and am away from home I can still get at my phone numbers.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> That's a shame, although hopefully the android will force them to sort it out.
> 
> One thing I like about my Nokia/Windows Address Book/Hotmail combo is how easily the same address book can be shared between them, so I can keep a backup on my pc and if I lose my phone and am away from home I can still get at my phone numbers.



Yep me too, in the last three years I've used three different operating systems (Windows Mobile on my XDA Mini S, Symbian on Nokia N73 and my Palm Centro); all have been a piece of piss to sync with. Within minutes of installing their software my new phone has had all the notes, tasks, calendar and contacts backed up on my pc and ready to use. 

I've never had any issue with changing phones or operating systems. Google seem to be presenting a bit of hassle for that now. If I get a Android phone I have to faff about endlessly keeping on top of my contacts, and if I want to change I have to bollock about with exporting files because of the 'cloud' system their using. I really hope someone sorts out a proper desktop sync for this but I'm not sure they will because Google apps and way of doing things looks central to this:



> That "cloud" just happens to belong to Google, and once you're in the ecosystem, it's hard to get out. Google AdWord revenue, secured.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 16, 2008)

I think your being very brave considering being on the bleeding edge. I await your reports with interest if you get one, but I'll stick with my nokia for now. (Not that I have a choice as I'm not on T-Mobile).

To be a serious threat to WM they need to be able to target business users and I'd have thought that being able to sync contacts with outlook would be rather important to that.


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2008)

I think anyone who gets this phone should know that it's a new venture and there's going to be many kinks to be ironed out.

But that doesn't stop it being the most exciting phone development this year. I'm hoping to get a review model, or I may just buy one and get all cutting edge on yo' ass.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 16, 2008)

Now I buy my phones rather then get more expensive contracts, I'm less forgiving of flaws as I know I wont just get another on in 12 months. Still I'll be intrested to read your experiences. 

I think it will get exciting when there are more android phone. Ideally I'd like to see something like the Touch HD with Android, that would be sweet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2008)

editor said:


> I think anyone who gets this phone should know that it's a new venture and there's going to be many kinks to be ironed out.
> 
> But that doesn't stop it being the most exciting phone development this year. I'm hoping to get a review model, or I may just buy one and get all cutting edge on yo' ass.



Fair point, all early adopters know you get buggy software, glitches and not a perfect working devices but still Google have had a couple of years to sort out their contacts situation. That's a bit poor imo; things like contacts should work out of the box.

I think I'll stick to my initial instincts that this needs at least another year before becoming a solid replacement for my trusty Palm Centro!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Now I buy my phones rather then get more expensive contracts, I'm less forgiving of flaws as I know I wont just get another on in 12 months. Still I'll be intrested to read your experiences.
> 
> I think it will get exciting when there are more android phone. Ideally I'd like to see something like the Touch HD with Android, that would be sweet.



Yep I'm much the same, after getting the Palm Centro I'm now buying unlocked and looking for the best sim only deal. 

I reckon Palm should give up on the new OS and just release a 3G Centro 2 running Android!


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2008)

The business based eWeek website gives the G1 a very positive review. The trackball seems to be generally picking up a lot of positive comments too.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and...Phone-a-Solid-Device/?kc=WBGNLWMU10162008STR1


----------



## editor (Oct 17, 2008)

And here we go:

*Sync Your T-Mobile G1 Phone with Microsoft Exchange Server*





It's free.
http://www.wrike.com/g1-exchange-sync.html


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## paolo (Oct 17, 2008)

editor said:


> Why would it be in the interest of the mathematician at The Motley Fool who came up with the estimate?
> 
> (*sorry if I snipped some of your post by accident - I pressed edit instead of reply and started typing)



No idea myself, but it reminds me of the silly numbers and cut and paste journalism that was going on during the iPhone launch.

Numerous articles stated "analysts expect 400k by...". It was a ludicrously high figure, when anyone with half a brain could do the maths on relative market size, and scale the already known US sales volume.

The phrasing made it sound like there was concensus, but in reality the figure came from one single person, quoted in the FT... And from there it spread.

So, not surprised at all that the 1.5m figure here has somewhat sketchy origins.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2008)

editor said:


> And here we go:
> 
> *Sync Your T-Mobile G1 Phone with Microsoft Exchange Server*
> 
> ...



So no sync with your desktop?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 19, 2008)

Good round up of G1 reviews here.



> Also, he notes that the G1 can't synchronise with Microsoft Outlook, which I view as being a ridiculously stupid failing in a smart phone. As Walt says:It also can't synchronize any data at all directly with a PC or Mac. For instance, it can't sync with Microsoft Outlook or Windows Media Player on a PC, with Apple's iCal or Address Book programs on a Mac, or with iTunes on either Windows or the Mac. It has no PC-based synchronization software of its own, and it offers no way to automatically back up your settings, music, applications, videos or photos, either to a computer or to an online repository, though Google says it plans to add a backup feature. ​All in all, the first Android phone appears to have at least as many drawbacks as the iPhone, without having the sort of interface and browsing smarts that make people willingly put up with its drawbacks. It would have been much more useful to evaluate it against, say, Windows Mobile and Nokia/Symbian.


----------



## editor (Oct 19, 2008)

Another positive review:



> The T-Mobile G1 'Google phone' is a tweaker's delight
> The first Android-based phone isn't especially sexy or eye-catching, but it does a lot of things right.
> http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1673772823;fp;2;fpid;2



With a bit - actually make that_ a lot_ - of luck I'll be getting a review model sometime soon.


----------



## Iam (Oct 20, 2008)

editor said:


> And here we go:
> 
> *Sync Your T-Mobile G1 Phone with Microsoft Exchange Server*
> 
> ...



Contacts but not mail, by the looks of it?



I assume the phone already supports exchange mail?


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## editor (Oct 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> I assume the phone already supports exchange mail?


Not yet, but it's surely only a matter of weeks away.


----------



## Iam (Oct 20, 2008)

If they can do the contacts already (which must require connection and authentication), you'd imagine so.


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## Sunray (Oct 21, 2008)

Disappointingly Mozilla have said they are not going to support Android and the iPhone with the new Mobile Firefox.  I knew the iPhone was going to happen because Apple have said no duplication of existing functions (which both irritates and pleases me), but I am surprised for Android.  I suppose thats why Google produced Chrome.

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/21/mozilla-snubs-android


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2008)

Motorola (still the US #1 mobile seller) have weighed in big time with their commitment to Android (350 staff, $10m dosh) and there's a nifty MySpace app now out which uses Shazam technology to let you identify a track and take you straight to the artist's MySpace page.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 21, 2008)

That's because their existing software is so utterly appalling.   

I can imagine Dilbert works at Motorola.


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2008)

Google/Open Handset Alliance have announced the availability of the Android platform source code to everyone, for free, under the new Android Open Source Project. 



> "As an open source project, anyone can contribute to Android and influence its direction," said Google in a statement. Anyone can download, build, and run the code needed to create a complete mobile device. This represents the first truly open and fully featured mobile platform, which will enable people to create a mobile device without restrictions, build applications that run on Android-powered devices, and contribute to the core platform."
> 
> "Open source allows everyone and anyone equal access to the ideas and innovation that can make good products great," said Andy Rubin, senior director of mobile platforms, Google. "An open sourced mobile platform, that's constantly being improved upon by the community and is available for everyone to use, speeds innovation, is an engine of economic opportunity and provides a better mobile experience for users."
> 
> ...The OHA says consumers will start to see more applications like location-based travel tools, games and social networking offerings available to them directly; cheaper and faster phones at lower costs; and a better mobile web experience through 3G networks with richer screens.


Sweet.

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...roid-source-code-made-freely-available-477943


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Disappointingly Mozilla have said they are not going to support Android and the iPhone with the new Mobile Firefox.  I knew the iPhone was going to happen because Apple have said no duplication of existing functions (which both irritates and pleases me), but I am surprised for Android.  I suppose thats why Google produced Chrome.
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/21/mozilla-snubs-android



That's a bit stupid on their part. Don't they realise how many iPhone users there are out there??


----------



## untethered (Oct 21, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's a bit stupid on their part. Don't they realise how many iPhone users there are out there??



On whose part? Apple absolutely control which software can be installed on iPhones and won't allow anyone to produce anything that competes with core software, eg. Safari.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2008)

untethered said:


> On whose part? Apple absolutely control which software can be installed on iPhones and won't allow anyone to produce anything that competes with core software, eg. Safari.



Have Apple said they're going to stop Mozilla mobile being an app for the iPhone?


----------



## untethered (Oct 21, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have Apple said they're going to stop Mozilla mobile being an app for the iPhone?



No idea, but it'd be entirely consistent with Apple's behaviour to date, where a number of applications have been banned by Apple explicitly for supposedly replicating the functionality of Apple's default apps.

Why would Mozilla want to develop for a platform as unfree as the iPhone anyway, where users don't even have the freedom to install any software they like?


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have Apple said they're going to stop Mozilla mobile being an app for the iPhone?


Apple's oft stated "no duplicate functionality on the app store" rule should absolutely rule it out.

After all, Mozilla would duplicate just about all of the functionality of Safari - one of the core iPhone apps - so it would be very strange to see Apple suddenly start making exceptions for one developer over another.





untethered said:


> Why would Mozilla want to develop for a platform as unfree as the iPhone anyway, where users don't even have the freedom to install any software they like?


Good point.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2008)

Looks like there's a sync with outlook without exchange coming although there's some disquiet over the yearly license payment. Personally I'd only need it for the once to get my contacts across with minimal faff factor so that isn't too much a bother...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 21, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like there's a sync with outlook without exchange coming although there's some disquiet over the yearly license payment. Personally I'd only need it for the once to get my contacts across with minimal faff factor so that isn't too much a bother...



I'd only need it to back up/restore my contacts, but I try to do it every few months to keep a backup. 

Would the fee still apply to syncing with windows address book or is it the same thing?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> I'd only need it to back up/restore my contacts, but I try to do it every few months to keep a backup.
> 
> Would the fee still apply to syncing with windows address book or is it the same thing?



From what I can tell it's just a yearly license payment to continue using the software, no idea of the details yet (I'm reading about trying to figure out whether the G1 really is worth getting).


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Apple's oft stated "no duplicate functionality on the app store" rule should absolutely rule it out.
> 
> After all, Mozilla would duplicate just about all of the functionality of Safari - one of the core iPhone apps - so it would be very strange to see Apple suddenly start making exceptions for one developer over another.Good point.



In some ways its annoying but in others I can see their point.  

While I don't get a much better browser or my big grip a better SMS tool.  If they do enhance them I will get a set of very consistently designed applications rather that the hand of Mozilla doing what ever they feel like with the iPhone SDK.


----------



## paolo (Oct 22, 2008)

I can't see the rationale myself, outside of something like the iTunes store where there is a revenue stream. I'd certainly - whilst Safari is having one it's flakey periods - like to see the chance for someone to try and do a better job and give me a choice.

The built in apps are good enough for most (I'd say), so it's not as if the typical user experienced would be compromised.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> In some ways its annoying but in others I can see their point.


Really? What possible point can there be in killing all competition stone dead and refusing to let users select alternative programs that they might prefer?

Palm phones ship with a perfectly adequate built in email client, but I chose to try out three others and eventually bought one that was better for my needs. Why on earth shouldn't it be possible to do the same for an iPhone?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2008)

Given that it takes something the size of Mozilla and Google to create a standards compliant web browser I can understand Apple reluctance there. 

They want that phone to work the way they want the phone to work.   I do software development and its very hard to create such consistent and simple interfaces. Takes a will of tempered steel from many angles to come up with something like the iPhone.  They don't want that incredible bit of design watered down by people fucking about and doing what ever they like.  It dilutes their effort and can give the device a bad name.   Apple have got balls of steel doing this, it focuses attention onto their efforts alone. It lives and dies by their software.

Competition might produce a better browser, but that's a might.  It could well produce a much worse one.  Way too much shit software out there, competition isn't always a good thing.

A good example of this going wrong for a company is Windows NT 4.0.  Microsoft moved the graphics drivers into the kernel to speed the graphics drivers up an order of magnitude.  This was the 1st time that 3rd party software was allowed in there, it was also the cause (and still is) of many blue screen's of death.    It was so bad at the start it actually gave NT4 and Microsoft a bad name but its cause was completely out of the control of MS.

Windows NT 3.51 was completely stable. At my last place of work, it ran for 9 years straight without ever crashing or even needing a re-boot.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> They want that phone to work the way they want the phone to work.   I do software development and its very hard to create such consistent and simple interfaces. Takes a will of tempered steel from many angles to come up with something like the iPhone.  They don't want that incredible bit of design watered down by people fucking about and doing what ever they like.  It dilutes their effort and can give the device a bad name.   Apple have got balls of steel doing this, it focuses attention onto their efforts alone. It lives and dies by their software.


You're just making excuses. There's loads of rock solid, attractive-looking and sometimes high end apps for the Palm, some written by small software houses, some totally free. 

All this talk of giving the product a 'bad name' is tosh too. If the software's shit, don't use it. If it's good the platform becomes stronger. The example of the rejected podcast program is a moot point. Legal users lost a very useful app as a result.

Perhaps you like to be spoonfed what you can put on the handset that _you've paid for_, but I like to decide for myself thanks.


----------



## Iam (Oct 22, 2008)

It seems to be doing most everything I need it for, although the keyboard's a bit shit, and the battery life could be better.

As for apps, I probably wouldn't even notice most of them. I usually only end up with them when people say "oh, you should get this!". 

I've paid for a grand total of one.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2008)

The G1 has gone on sale in the US today. A queue of 150 punters assembled outside a store in San Fransisco but thankfully there's been no reports of in-store whooping, high fiving punters or staff running around the block squealing like little children.

http://www.computerworld.com/action...articleId=9117740&taxonomyId=15&intsrc=kc_top


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2008)

editor said:


> You're just making excuses. There's loads of rock solid, attractive-looking and sometimes high end apps for the Palm, some written by small software houses, some totally free.
> 
> All this talk of giving the product a 'bad name' is tosh too. If the software's shit, don't use it. If it's good the platform becomes stronger. The example of the rejected podcast program is a moot point. Legal users lost a very useful app as a result.
> 
> Perhaps you like to be spoonfed what you can put on the handset that _you've paid for_, but I like to decide for myself thanks.



I gave a concrete example of 3rd party apps giving the Microsoft a bad name, you can choose to ignore this but there it is.  

There are lots of 3rd party apps that can go onto the iPhone.  So many in fact, I think that the App store now needs to have a bit of a revamp to make it easier to use.  You talk like Apple are rejecting applications left right and centre.  The app store is proof positive thats not the case.  The ones that do get rejected seem to get a lot of attention.

Those core applications, there aren't that many, Apple have decided to keep them and their look and feel, in house as they define the iPhone as the iPhone.  Once you let go of these applications and someone steps in and creates a winner, in the days of the internet, it becomes the defacto standard pretty much overnight.  This is especially true for free applications.  

Once that happens, Apple are suddenly powerless to prevent issues with that software effecting the perception of the iPhone.

If you look I said it was irritating.  My irritation stems from having to wait for new functionality.  Al least when it does arrive, I know it will have a reasonable level of quality and still have that impressive UI.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2008)

Sunray;8221263]I gave a concrete example of 3rd party apps giving the Microsoft a bad name said:


> Once that happens, Apple are suddenly powerless to prevent issues with that software effecting the perception of the iPhone..


So how come Palm managed to keep shifting units by the shedload for many years despite the presence of tens of thousands of third party apps, not all  of them too wonderful either?

If I download a crap app, I delete it. Can't see how that's going to effect my 'perception' of my phone in the slightest.

I find your defence of Apple's walled garden, control-freak approach over Android's open source system rather odd, to be honest. 

Why should Steve Jobs decide what you can and can not have of your phone? How can it be better for consumers that an excellent podcast program was pulled just because Apple already had a similar (but less useful) program?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Which mobile apps have given Windows Mobile a bad name? (it's been doing a pretty good job of that on its own, actually). Can you name a few?So how come Palm managed to keep shifting units by the shedload for many years despite the presence of tens of thousands of third party apps, not all  of them too wonderful either?
> 
> If I download a crap app, I delete it. Can't see how that's going to effect my 'perception' of my phone in the slightest.
> 
> ...



Never used WM applications so wouldn't know apart from having tried WM a number of times over the years like you say, it doesn't need bad applications.  But windows mobile isn't sold like the iPhone. It doesn't really come with much to bleat on about in terms of applications. People buy it knowing that you have to install software, much like Windows.

The iPhone is sold as a phone and iPod with these nice applications that are easy to use.  Its that that makes the iPhone (in this case) successful. It lives and dies by those applications.  This is why Mr Jobs wants to keep control of them. They are key to their sales (and marketing) which is why they make the phone. 

Its not a defence, that would mean I have an opinion but at the moment I am ambivilant.  While its not ideal, its not really effecting me a whole lot, the phone is a great thing to use and the App store stuffed with applications of varying quality, so I sit firmly on the fence.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its not a defence, that would mean I have an opinion but at the moment I am ambivilant.  While its not ideal, its not really effecting me a whole lot, the phone is a great thing to use and the App store stuffed with applications of varying quality, so I sit firmly on the fence.


But _surely_ - as an aficionado of technology - you can't possibly think that a closed, walled garden, proprietary approach where the company, not the user, decides what applications can and can not be installed is the way forward?

How can you defend a system where developers have their work rejected out of hand and aren't even allowed to discuss the reasons why?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2008)

If they were rejecting loads of applications and left some dodgy ones I can see that it would be a problem.  But their control is so limited that I don't see it being a an issue.  I've said in the past that if they are going to exercise any control at all then be more descerning arbiters of quality, way too much dross on the App store.  Defo needs to have a 'trial' option, which I reckon will be added sooner than later.

I don't see how Apple treat their 3rd party developers, and yes thats pretty shit, as a reason to not get the phone apart from some form of solidarity statement?   Its so far in advance of my old phone (apart from the shitty camera) that I couldn't resist.


----------



## cybertect (Oct 22, 2008)

editor said:


> But _surely_ - as an aficionado of technology - you can't possibly think that a closed, walled garden, proprietary approach where the company, not the user, decides what applications can and can not be installed is the way forward?



One probable major reason for this approach in Apple's decision making process

http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/viruses/mobile.mspx

http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/cabir.shtml

The smarter the phone, the more there is at risk


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I've said in the past that if they are going to exercise any control at all then be more descerning arbiters of quality, way too much dross on the App store.


Well, they barred the podcast app on grounds that it competed with their own (less capable) app, while letting users thrill to _truly essential_ apps like a virtual lighter, a virtual beer and a virtual firecracker.

Go figure.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2008)

cybertect said:


> One probable major reason for this approach in Apple's decision making process
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/protect/computer/viruses/mobile.mspx
> 
> ...


Do you know a single soul on this planet that has suffered a mobile virus?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2008)

A friend of mine got one on his WM phone in 2005. He installed all sorts of crap on that thing, mind.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Well, they barred the podcast app on grounds that it competed with their own (less capable) app, while letting users thrill to _truly essential_ apps like a virtual lighter, a virtual beer and a virtual firecracker.
> 
> Go figure.



I would say that 'less capable' is somewhat subjective.  iTunes does pod casts and thats been on iPods since the 2nd gen iPods, as thats where the term was coined.  Wasn't Apples idea but they jumped onto it pretty quickly.

Just had a go with the iTunes pod casts, its pretty impressive.  Going to have to go some to beat that.  Its got loads of stuff on there and now includes video ones!  Loads and load of stuff for free.  

Going to sign up to stuff when I get back!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2008)

editor said:


> The G1 has gone on sale in the US today. A queue of 150 punters assembled outside a store in San Fransisco but thankfully there's been no reports of in-store whooping, high fiving punters or staff running around the block squealing like little children.
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/action...articleId=9117740&taxonomyId=15&intsrc=kc_top



What kind of person would actually que to buy a phone on release day?


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Now here's an app with a ton of potential:








> The free Google Android application Cab4Me Light makes finding, scheduling, and calling cabs to your side virtually brainless. Cab4Me Light's interface is simple and efficient, with one tab that shows where you are on the map and another that shows the details of cab companies in your area.
> 
> Step 1, drag your approximate location on a zoomable Google map. You can use GPS to locate yourself or enter a new address or a contacts' address to call the cab to a different location. Step 2, either click the orange button to call a cab company or switch to the Taxi tab for a scrollable list. The application asks if you're sure you want to place the call, a good precaution.
> 
> ...


More soon-come Android apps: http://code.google.com/android/adc_gallery/


----------



## cybertect (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Do you know a single soul on this planet that has suffered a mobile virus?



Um, well, two of my colleagues at work. I had to sort it out.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

cybertect said:


> Um, well, two of my colleagues at work. I had to sort it out.


They must have been very unlucky - or most likely very stupid - seeing as mobile phone viruses are still rare.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2008)

Google Maps, enter taxi, click one of the pins, click the number?  Hardly needs another application.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Google Maps, enter taxi, click one of the pins, click the number?  Hardly needs another application.


Try reading the feature list again.

Edit: this TuneWiki app looks interesting too, and it's being described as "one of the highest-reaching music applications we've seen on any mobile platform. It may be somewhat flawed at this stage of development, but it's well worth the download....."



> The music player on the Google Android G1 phone isn't bad, but can it scroll lyrics while the song plays, download you new songs for free, and play music videos?
> All that is packaged into the free TuneWiki music player, a much more complex and ambitious Android app than most of its cohort debuting in the Android Market today. Not only does TuneWiki catalog the songs already on your phone, it also supplies you with quick links to download free songs, and links to play videos coupled with completely licensed lyrics.
> You can use it to create a playlist, listen to TuneWiki's top 50 videos and songs, and search for song lyrics in multiple languages. TuneWiki's real ambition shows in its tools to search, save, and play YouTube music videos with synchronized lyrics.
> http://www.download.com/8301-2007_4-10073406-12.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave


There's still rough edges but it's great to see the open source community getting behind Android.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Try reading the feature list again.
> 
> Edit: this TuneWiki app looks interesting too, and it's being described as "one of the highest-reaching music applications we've seen on any mobile platform. It may be somewhat flawed at this stage of development, but it's well worth the download....."
> 
> There's still rough edges but it's great to see the open source community getting behind Android.



I did and I can do all of those things with google maps apart from it doesn't know where taxi stands are.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2008)

TuneWiki

They cant help themselves plagarising Apple.  The shuffle icon is apples.  The format of the list is Apple.  The look of the timer and scub bar is identical, e.g. its a thin bar with a round blob, time left at one end and time remaining that the other and its at the top of the window. The back button is at the top left and the play,pause left and right are in exactly the same place?

I'm looking at it on that video and comparing it to the iPod app on my iPhone its a complete rip.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I'm looking at it on that video and comparing it to the iPod app on my iPhone its a complete rip.


Can Apple do lyric sync with videos?


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Wow. This looks clever:


> Maybe the most innovative and comprehensive travel guide ever: See the world through your phone’s camera view overlaid with Wikipedia content. What you see is an annotated landscape, mountain names, landmark descriptions, and interesting stories: Augmented-reality for everyday use.
> http://www.mobilizy.com/


Video:


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2008)

That's just crazy. So it GPS your location and orientation, then the accelerometers to get what directi noyou're pointing the camera, and then uses wikipedia's location data to overlay information in real time? Nuts. Will check out the demo video later.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Crispy said:


> That's just crazy. So it GPS your location and orientation, then the accelerometers to get what directi noyou're pointing the camera, and then uses wikipedia's location data to overlay information in real time? Nuts. Will check out the demo video later.


That's what it does in the video and it's hugely impressive.

The G1 has a compass built in, so that works with the GPS and the location info to provide the overlaid view with distance data


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Here's some screen grabs:













It looks absolutely amazing


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2008)

Very impressive. And with no compass, the iphone can't do this.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Can Apple do lyric sync with videos?



Thats not the point I am making?  

Second, why would I want to?  What a waste of effort.  Is that a new way of taunting the deaf?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Here's some screen grabs:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice, but a bit pointless.  If I am looking at Everest, I am pretty sure I wouldn't need my phone to tell me that I am looking at Everest.  I can't think of a use of that, as its past tense, apart from wondering about something your looking at and pointing the camera at it. A zoom functiona might make it more useful.

Be good for guided walks, they would need to have one hell of a database to support it.  Shame data rates abroad are so prohibitive at the moment. 6 quid a MB outside the EU.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 23, 2008)

that's science fiction mental.


----------



## Iam (Oct 23, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Very impressive. And with no compass, the iphone can't do this.



I'm really upset by this, I must say. Thankfully, my eyes can read actual signs.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Be good for guided walks, they would need to have one hell of a database to support it.  Shame data rates abroad are so prohibitive at the moment. 6 quid a MB outside the EU.


No problem if you're using wi-fi, or have swapped out the SIM for a local network service with a cheap data deal (yes, unlike _some_ phones, you can legally unlock the G1).

The program looks like a fantastic, cutting edge app and it's great to see such fantastic innovation coming through the open source community.





Sunray said:


> Nice, but a bit pointless. If I am looking at Everest, I am pretty sure I wouldn't need my phone to tell me that I am looking at Everest.


Wow. So you can instantly recognise mountains and landmarks when you're out and about?


Iam said:


> I'm really upset by this, I must say. Thankfully, my eyes can read actual signs.


I'd wager that they can't point out the precise location of buildings and landmarks and give you stats and facts and exact distance and direction from you when you're standing miles away though.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Thats not the point I am making?


You said it was a "complete rip" of the iPhone. But now it appears it's not.


Sunray said:


> Second, why would I want to?  What a waste of effort.  Is that a new way of taunting the deaf?


What a bizarre comment. Some people like to sing along to videos.


----------



## Iam (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> I'd wager that they can't point out the precise location of buildings and landmarks and give you stats and facts and exact distance and direction from you when you're standing miles away though.



And I'd wager that'll be precisely fuck all use in real terms, after the excitement of the first time wears off.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Iam said:


> And I'd wager that'll be precisely fuck all use in real terms, after the excitement of the first time wears off.


There seems to be enough people who still think the iPhone's beer-drinking application is worthy of endless replays, so I'd imagine that there might be a little more life for this genuinely useful and informative app.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> You said it was a "complete rip" of the iPhone. But now it appears it's not.
> What a bizarre comment. Some people like to sing along to videos.



When your walking down the street or on the bus?  Karaoke machine have their uses, but I think on a mobile phone its a bit of a weird one.

I said they were ripping off the look of the iPhone's iPod application.  I do seem to remember someone ripping off the look of Urban75.com and you were less than pleased.

Its not saying that the iPhone is better or worse, the functionality might be different but where its the same, its an outrageous rip of the iPhone/iTouch.  If you want to see, I can post up side by sides. Apple have some serious legal people working for them and if they think they can win will go after it and get it pulled from the phone. Its stupid and they should avoid doing it on such a high profile device.  Its not hard to come up with new controls that don't look exactly like the iPhone iPod application.



> No problem if you're using wi-fi, or have swapped out the SIM for a local network service with a cheap data deal (yes, unlike _some_ phones, you can legally unlock the G1).



I'd just get one of these if I went abroad.

http://www.usbfever.com/index_eproduct_view.php?products_id=624

But even then, PAYG data tarrifs are terrible in some countries.  



> Wow. So you can instantly recognise mountains and landmarks when you're out and about?



If I am up at 5000m, its -20 and snowing and its taken me days to get there, I think I know what I am looking at because its most likely the reason I am there. Dunno about you but I tend to research things before I go there, or why would I be there? I wouldn't know it existed without reading about it 1st.  You'd not suddenly wake up looking at the Taj Mahal, go "Wow  where am I?, Whats that?" and point your phone at it would you?   

Even if that did happen, I'm not sure knowing the history of the Taj Mahal would be particularly useful?


----------



## Iam (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> There seems to be enough people who still think the iPhone's beer-drinking application is worthy of endless replays, so I'd imagine that there might be a little more life for this genuinely useful and informative app.



I have no way to explain (or excuse  ) the first part of that! Not something I've got on my phone.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> When your walking down the street or on the bus?  Karaoke machine have their uses, but I think on a mobile phone its a bit of a weird one.


By that reasoning, the iPhone's video playback feature is 'a weird one' too.





Sunray said:


> I said they were ripping off the look of the iPhone's iPod application.


It looks fairly generic to me, are you sure Apple invented those icons?
But then Apple have ripped off a few things too - like the Palm's hardware ringer on/off switch and threaded SMS. That's how the mobile market works and it's all good for the consumer.


Sunray said:


> I'd just get one of these if I went abroad.
> http://www.usbfever.com/index_eproduct_view.php?products_id=624


I'd just get a free SIM card myself, but if you want to spend your money on some fiddly DIY internet thing that involves cutting up your SIM card, feel free...





Sunray said:


> If I am up at 5000m, its -20 and snowing and its taken me days to get there, I think I know what I am looking because its most likely the reason I am there.


In your keenness to knock Android's obvious innovation you ain't 'alf coming up with some ludicrous and wildly improbable scenarios.


----------



## untethered (Oct 23, 2008)

What's the point of a mobile phone at all? You can just make all your calls at home or work, and if you're out, use a phone box.

They'll never catch on.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> By that reasoning, the iPhone's video playback feature is 'a weird one' too.



Watching a tv show or pod cast does not involve me singing along?  I think doing that on the central line at 9am might disturb a few people.



> It looks fairly generic to me, are you sure Apple invented those icons?
> 
> But then Apple have ripped off a few things too - like the Palm's hardware ringer on/off switch and threaded SMS. That's how the mobile market works and it's all good for the consumer.



Generic?  You mean its been on iPods for ages so its generic? What does generic mean in this instance.  I'm OK on the techniques for somethings like a timer left and a scrub bar, play pause etc  But they look identical to the Apple ones and in the same places.  I know which came 1st.



> In your keenness to knock Android's obvious innovation you ain't 'alf coming up with some ludicrous and wildly improbable scenarios.



I'm not keen to knock Android.  I am glad its as good as it looks.  

Thats a pretty poor defence of that application.  If its so useful tell me a use? I'm just pointing out that your gushing praise for some of these applications is a bit misplaced.  We will know when an application comes out that is a winner as its obvious.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Watching a tv show or pod cast does not involve me singing along?  I think doing that on the central line at 9am might disturb a few people..


Ah, you're still stuck in Ridiculous Scenario Land without a timetable - one minute you're straddling mountains in sub zero temerpatures and the next you're on a tube station!

I've no idea why anyone would want to sing along to video lyrics at 9am on the Central Line, but I can think why people mighty enjoying doing so at home or in the pub/youth club/house with their friends.


Sunray said:


> Generic? You mean its been on iPods for ages so its generic? What does generic mean in this instance. I'm OK on the techniques for somethings like a timer left and a scrub bar, play pause etc But they look identical to the Apple ones and in the same places. I know which came 1st.


Yes, but did Apple design then in the first place?


Sunray said:


> If its so useful tell me a use?


If you can't see past your own personal needs, we're not likely to have much of a general discussion about technological trends, I'm afraid.

I've no use for video on the move on any device, for example, but I can sure see why others might enjoy such a feature.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> If I am up at 5000m, its -20 and snowing and its taken me days to get there, I think I know what I am looking at because its most likely the reason I am there. Dunno about you but I tend to research things before I go there, or why would I be there? I wouldn't know it existed without reading about it 1st.  You'd not suddenly wake up looking at the Taj Mahal, go "Wow  where am I?, Whats that?" and point your phone at it would you?



I can tell that you don't spend much time in mountainous areas! I've spent a lot of time in the lake, yet still when looking at some skylines in can take me a while of starring at a map to work out all the hills. That's if they aren't of the edge of your map as you are naving on 1:25k, rather then 1:50k. Even Everest when viewed from a distance, is just one of many hills. Remember that it was only many years after it was supported and recorded, that they worked out it the was tallest, in an office in India. 

I'm sceptical though that's its going to be as good as claimed, because of the huge database needed to support. I'd also be impressed if the gps is that accurate, but is quite possible. 

I can see a need/want, but would be suprised if they can deliver it.

Here's to hoping.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> I'm sceptical though that's its going to be as good as claimed, because of the huge database needed to support.


The fact that it's open source is a good start, and the screen grab of the New York seemed to have a fair few locations already inputted.

I can see the potential for this kind of app being _massive_.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 23, 2008)

I'd expect places like New York to be well covered, its places of the beaten track which will be interesting. If its easy to enter the data, then that would be ace. It just sound almost two good to be true. 

Like you say I can see the potential for it being massive.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2008)

Well, if a wikipedia article has coordinates at the top right (like the Brixton Academy one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brixton_Academy) then it probably shows up in this app. I guess the elevation data is pulled from google earth.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 23, 2008)

That makes sense, although wouldn't it have to work out a detailed map of the area (lots of computing power), to work out if something would be in your line of site?

Elevation data is also the least accurate part of a gps, its not uncommon for my dedicated garmin unit to be at least 50m out, even after being turned on for several hours, I don't know how that would affect things.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2008)

There's *a ton* of free apps now available in the Android store - and some look very useful indeed:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/google-announces-free-android-apps-479004


----------



## untethered (Oct 23, 2008)

editor said:


> There's *a ton* of free apps now available in the Android store



How much does it cost to get masses of free publicity from having your app banned by the phone manufacturer? Is this feature only available on the iPhone?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 23, 2008)

If the Mandelbrot Map - Map viewer can link with the GPS, that would make me very inclined to look at getting one, I've got the whole UK mapped at 25k, 50k & 250k, with far superior detail then google maps/autoroute give.


----------



## paolo (Oct 23, 2008)

Whether or not that viewer thing would be much use I'm not sure, but it's one hell of a mash-up. Like the idea *loads* 

(Am I imagining this or is streetview coming to the iPhone? If it is, then the iPhone has the hardware to do this).


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2008)

streetview is coming to iphone, iirc, but the iphone doesn't have a compass so it doesn't know which directon you're pointing it.


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2008)

And this is more like it too:





> It looks like getting up and running on an unactivated G1 is going to be a little easier than Apple made it for iPhone users. No jailbreak required.
> 
> All you really need to do is beg, steal or borrow an active T-Mobile SIM card and slip it in the phone for the duration of the setup process (it should only take a few minutes).
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 24, 2008)

Why would anyone want to unlock a phone and not be able to talk on it?!


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why would anyone want to unlock a phone and not be able to talk on it?!


Why not look around the web and find out?

Edit: oh, and a touchscreen keyboard is apparently coming right up!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/23/android-to-get-touchscreen-keyboard-soon-ish/


----------



## boskysquelch (Oct 24, 2008)

iSafe



> I can't believe this app is one of the first in the Marketplace. This app searches your location for possible unsafe conditions like sex offenders, reported crime, weather, allergies, air-quality and speed limit so it can alert you if the area is unsafe. The best part about this app is if it detects a registered sex offender nearby it will sound an alert every few minutes saying "Potential Sex Offender Nearby!" Yea I'm not kidding around, this is a real Android app.. CRAZY!



_iDeal!_ would be right up my iStreet....or iGuns...or iLikeToPutOut...fffs!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Why not look around the web and find out?
> 
> Edit: oh, and a touchscreen keyboard is apparently coming right up!
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/23/android-to-get-touchscreen-keyboard-soon-ish/



Well seeing as you trumpeted that I thought you might have an opinion...


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2008)

Techradar review describes the G1 as the second best phone on the planet (they think the iPhone is the best)
http://www.techradar.com/products/phones/mobile-phones/t-mobile-g1-470345/review


----------



## g force (Oct 24, 2008)

Slide out Qwery...no thanks.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 24, 2008)

Slide out qwerty's are better than having a cramped small buttoned phone keyboard...


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Slide out qwerty's are better than having a cramped small buttoned phone keyboard...


..or a (shudder) virtual one.


----------



## paolo (Oct 24, 2008)

Crispy said:


> streetview is coming to iphone, iirc, but the iphone doesn't have a compass so it doesn't know which directon you're pointing it.



Ah ok. So I guess you'll have to drag to look around.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Wow. This looks clever:
> 
> Video:




Very interesting although I'm in two minds about it, part of me thinks cool but another just wants some solid PIM applications. Give me Agendus for Android!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 25, 2008)

This link gives you an idea of just how functional the G1 will be for UK users out of the box. Two things that jump out are the lack of tethering and lack of things like notes and perhaps more importantly tasks.


----------



## paolo (Oct 25, 2008)

Wonder when we'll see the first news story of someone being thrown out of a shop, for scanning barcodes? Noone seems to have foreseen that, but I reckon some chains will end up banning it (much as they don't like people photographing store layouts etc).


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Wonder when we'll see the first news story of someone being thrown out of a shop, for scanning barcodes? Noone seems to have foreseen that, but I reckon some chains will end up banning it (much as they don't like people photographing store layouts etc).


You don't need to scan the bar codes - you can enter the number manually or look it up on the web.

KE: I expect that any missing apps will appear very soon.


----------



## paolo (Oct 25, 2008)

Sure... It was more a general thought, rather than a criticism of the app.


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Sure... It was more a general thought, rather than a criticism of the app.


Well, if you're about to splash out £500 in a shop and the staff won't let you compare prices, I'd say they'd lose their custom pretty quick.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 25, 2008)

editor said:


> You don't need to scan the bar codes - you can enter the number manually or look it up on the web.
> 
> KE: I expect that any missing apps will appear very soon.



But if you have to look it up on the web you could just use a price comparison site thus rendering the app redundant...

Expectations don't make a phone run properly. I've reading this forum and the plethora of problems with this phone are putting me right off. 

It's basically been rushed to market and constitutes a beta release not a fully functioning smartphone...


----------



## editor (Oct 25, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> But if you have to look it up on the web you could just use a price comparison site thus rendering the app redundant...


Err, no. The Android app automatically reads your GPS location and serves up a listing of prices in shops close to you _as well _as internet prices.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 25, 2008)

But you said...actually forget it.


----------



## jayeola (Oct 26, 2008)

I've seen a few videos on youtube. Tempted. What's t-mobile like for reception and general, all-round service. I live in London if that helps.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2008)

I've not had any problems with them, used to have a nokia which was 3g and it worked perfectly well in terms of coverage (I travel all over London regularly too).


----------



## jayeola (Oct 26, 2008)

thanks. I used to have a "3" phone some time ago. that was 3g and i was actually happy the day i left that company. they offered me millions of minutes and texts to stay with them. couldn't. reception was rubbish!


----------



## iskande (Oct 26, 2008)

bee careful if you have one : http://securityevaluators.com/content/case-studies/android/index.jsp "Charlie Miller, Mark Daniel, and Jake Honoroff of Independent Security Evaluators identified and exploited a security vulnerability in the Android operating system.". probably have a firmware update soon...!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2008)

Well the phone is pretty much a beta phone right now so I guess it's going have it's issues to be firmwared away...


----------



## iskande (Oct 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well the phone is pretty much a beta phone right now so I guess it's going have it's issues to be firmwared away...



no official facebook app either. probably be able to reverse engineer the iphones one, but stability would be questionable. can use iphpne.facebook.com, though


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2008)

iskande said:


> bee careful if you have one : http://securityevaluators.com/content/case-studies/android/index.jsp "Charlie Miller, Mark Daniel, and Jake Honoroff of Independent Security Evaluators identified and exploited a security vulnerability in the Android operating system.". probably have a firmware update soon...!


Looks like it's being sorted.


> Google executives acknowledged the issue but said that the security features of the phone would limit the extent of damage that could be done by an intruder, compared with today’s PCs and other cellphones.
> 
> Unlike modern personal computers and other advanced smartphones like the iPhone, the Google phone creates a series of software compartments that limit the access of an intruder to a single application.
> 
> ...


----------



## paolo (Oct 26, 2008)

editor said:


> Err, no. The Android app automatically reads your GPS location and serves up a listing of prices in shops close to you _as well _as internet prices.



GPS doesn't work inside buildings. It requires line of sight to the sats.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 26, 2008)

I guess it depends on how clever it is. If the GPS is running the whole time and you go inside, then you arn't likely to have moved far from the last time in got a lock.


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## editor (Oct 26, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> GPS doesn't work inside buildings. It requires line of sight to the sats.





> Battery and System Resources - ShopSavvy™ is designed to be battery-friendly, is very low maintenance and does not require much to run. It has a small memory footprint and a tiny storage footprint. It requires no background processes after the user exits. All GPS queries are cached for an hour to prevent unnecessary lookups. And when searching for prices, all of the heavy processing is done on the ShopSavvy™ servers. These servers search through several merchants for each request but only send back a very condensed XML response thereby minimizing network usage required by the device. Also, all Price Alerts are monitored on the server instead of the device in order to free up resources for other Android applications.


http://www.biggu.com/applications/


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 26, 2008)

It all sounds very clever, but I'm not sure of the use to me. If its a major purchase I will have already done my research on the net before heading out shopping (and ordered online if possible). What kind of products could you see yourself using it for?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 26, 2008)

Out of interest, has anyone heard news of any other phones coming out with Android that may be available on other networks?


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> It all sounds very clever, but I'm not sure of the use to me. If its a major purchase I will have already done my research on the net before heading out shopping (and ordered online if possible). What kind of products could you see yourself using it for?


Here's a real life example. I find that I need a new microphone by 5pm. I head off into town, not sure exactly what stores have the microphone in stock. 

If the app works as advertised I could quickly find a list of retailers both close to me and, armed with current local prices and web prices, I could go in and see if they could price match. 

Another example would be if you're on holiday where you're looking for services.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 26, 2008)

But if you have a net connection at home, wouldn't you just google before heading out?


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> But if you have a net connection at home, wouldn't you just google before heading out?


The _whole poin_t of the app is that you don't have to sit at home Googling away and making lists to cart about later. You can do it on the move and get instantly updated results (plus price alerts and reviews) for whatever area you're in.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 26, 2008)

Maybe I've just had bad experiences of the net on mobiles, but I tend to treat it more as play thing when I'm bored and waiting for something on sites that I know work well on a small screen and only depend on it when I have to.  Maybe android will change this, but I much prefer my broadband connection at home with 10 tabs and a 22" screen then opera on the tiny screen if I have the choice. I don't see why you'd need much of a list, google, find the cheapest, go buy it.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Maybe android will change this, but I much prefer my broadband connection at home with 10 tabs and a 22" screen then opera on the tiny screen if I have the choice. I don't see why you'd need much of a list, google, find the cheapest, go buy it.


And if you're not at home? And if you suddenly need to find something when you're already out? And when you have an impulse to buy something? Or if you're out and just curious? Or want to hussle the prove down in the store? Or just can't be arsed to try and find all the nearby stores on Google?

Meanwhile, here's a listing of '15 killer apps' for the G1.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/152384-2/in_pictures_15_killer_android_apps_for_the_g1.html


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2008)

LOL! As if the average users going to need a mic by 5pm! And how many prosumers aren't already going to know their shit enough to know which shops sell what they want at the price they're willing to pay?


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## editor (Oct 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! As if the average users going to need a mic by 5pm! And how many prosumers aren't already going to know their shit enough to know which shops sell what they want at the price they're willing to pay?


'Prosumers'? What's wrong with ordinary phone users who'll most likely find the app very useful?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 26, 2008)

I must live a very different life to you. Maybe the fact that I hate going to town and so a trip there is normally out of necessity, if I need something whilst out and about, its likely to be in the cup of coffee* or rizla type range, rather then things I want to search  out prices on. That said I can see the use of location based apps, finding a nice pub or a coffee shop when in a strange town would be cool, with user reviews. That Beetaun app in the list you posted sounds cool. The get a life app could be quite scary if its anything like my messenger list.

* Actually in some places price checking a cup of coffee might not be a bad thing.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 26, 2008)

I told my mum about this app earlier today and she was impressed.  And if my mum is impressed by a bit of technology then bugger me, it must be a good idea


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 27, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I told my mum about this app earlier today and she was impressed.  And if my mum is impressed by a bit of technology then bugger me, it must be a good idea



I told a mate about that wikitude one the other night and he was very impressed.


----------



## paolo (Oct 27, 2008)

I see that the Android Market will be 70-30 revenue split developers vs. Store operator. No particular big news, same as elsewhere. Some very minor joining and hosting fees.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I see that the Android Market will be 70-30 revenue split developers vs. Store operator. No particular big news, same as elsewhere. Some very minor joining and hosting fees.


Except unlike the others, they're not keeping any of the remaining 30 per cent for themselves, and developers only have to pay a quarter of the fee to get on the store.

And, of course, unlike Apple they won't be unilaterally banning apps and  blocking their sole means of distribution because they either rival their own or are deemed 'not functional enough.'


> Google said developers will have to register and pay a one-time $25 application fee in order to upload their applications to the storefront. In perhaps the most relaxed rules in the industry, once the developer is registered, the apps are available to users without further validation and approval. For now, only free applications can be distributed, but starting early next year, developers will be able to charge for applications.
> 
> Google says developers will be able to keep 70 percent of the revenue, and the remaining amount goes to carriers and billing settlement fees. Most interesting to note, *Google does not take a percentage.* This is completely backwards from what Apple does today, which gives developers 70 percent and keeps 30 percent for themselves. Over and over, people have pondered what a carrier’s incentive will be to adopt the Android platform, well, folks, here’s your answer. Google explains: “We believe this revenue model creates a fair and positive experience for users, developers, and carriers.” Of course, Google is hoping to capitalize on the growing mobile advertising opportunity on the phone.


http://www.moconews.net/entry/419-g...android-market-will-split-revenues-between-d/


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## paolo (Oct 27, 2008)

It's still 70-30. And it will still be 70-30 after your next post


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 27, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> It's still 70-30. And it will still be 70-30 after your next post



And it will still be a far better system than the apple one after your next post.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 27, 2008)

Never mind Wi Fit how about Joyity for a game to make you active!



> YouCatch is a version of Manhunt in which players in the same proximity sign up for the game. Everyone acts as a hunter and the hunted, the game assigns you a person to hunt while assigning you to someone else as the victim. The location of everyone is periodically flashed on the map so you can locate others. When you get within 25 feet of your victim just press the scroll ball for the kill, the catch is your location is broadcast every time you press the scroll button. The winner is the last person left standing.


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## elbows (Oct 27, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> And it will still be a far better system than the apple one after your next post.



Unless someone manages to put some especially scary malware on there and the media get hysterical about it, and then Apple can act all smug and give people a lecture about how the control was necessary.

Not that I like Apples control freakery one bit, puts me off developing for the iphone and oppose some of it on ideological grounds, so I want the iphone to be beaten, just wont get too optimistic about it happening soon. For a start lots of people actually need to buy an android first in order to make a compelling marketplace.


----------



## paolo (Oct 27, 2008)

Whilst the policies around Android certainly show the promise of being better than Apple, there is a lack of critical thinking amongst many pundits.

When they read that Google wouldn't take a slice of software sales, they assumed noone would.

When they read that Google won't block/ban any apps, they assume noone will.

I'll bet - hard cash - that, within 12 months, there is an app that is either blocked or throttled. £10ers per poster, anyone? How strong is your faith?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 27, 2008)

I know what you mean about the lack of critical opinion about Android, its all a bit embarrassing really...


----------



## paolo (Oct 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I know what you mean about the lack of critical opinion about Android, its all a bit embarrassing really...



To be fair, the same wide-eyed naivety happened around the launch of the iPhone. Newspapers coming up with delirious sales predictions etc.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> It's still 70-30. And it will still be 70-30 after your next post


And it still won't be Android trousering the 30% for themselves, and it still won't be Android maintaining total and complete control over the distribution of applications and it still won't be Android arbitrarily rejecting apps and silencing developers. Oh and all 62 apps currently in the store are free.


paolo999 said:


> When they read that Google won't block/ban any apps, they assume noone will.


How do you 'ban' an app from an open platform? 

Individual networks could try, and they could include restrictions in their terms of service, but I can't see how a total ban might be achieved, especially as - unlike the iPhone - the G1 can be legally unlocked and run on any network the users wants.

As a precedent, I don't recall a Palm app ever being banned. Do you? How about a WM app? Any idea? (obviously we all know about iPhone apps being banned already!)


----------



## jayeola (Oct 27, 2008)

ed - wft? so i can unlock the g1 and "port" it to 02? that'll be great cos i dont want to switch networks just yet.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2008)

jayeola said:


> ed - wft? so i can unlock the g1 and "port" it to 02? that'll be great cos i dont want to switch networks just yet.


"T-Mobile will allow their phones to be unlocked after about three months of service. Just send email to simunlock@t-mobile.com with your name, phone number and IMEI number and they'll hook you up."

Details here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/t-mobiles-cto-on-g1-unlocking-and-tethering-plus-a-few-detai/

Edit to add: G1's are apparently 'pouring into China' and selling for big bucks.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/27/g1s-said-to-be-pouring-into-china-selling-for-big-bucks/


----------



## jayeola (Oct 27, 2008)

sheeeet! i wonder which firm is the best to stick with if one is going to use A LOT of bandwidth? 02 are offering me unlimited emails on a blackberry. great key board and very usable but there's not much you can hack i don't think.

i mean http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...q=blackberry+hacks&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0
zzzz....


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2008)

jayeola said:


> sheeeet! i wonder which firm is the best to stick with if one is going to use A LOT of bandwidth? 02 are offering me unlimited emails on a blackberry. great key board and very usable but there's not much you can hack i don't think.
> zzzz....


If you're into hacking and generally fiddling about, Android's the only real player in town, unless you fancy locking yourself into endless update->Jailbreak-update->Jailbreak iPhone cycles.


----------



## jayeola (Oct 27, 2008)

yeah i'd say! the md of the last firm i worked for had a debian tool on it, (apt-get) and was constantly complaining of apple dicking around with his phone when HE was dicking around with the phone.

hrm 50/50 blackberry or android. glad that i did not get the palm centro after all.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2008)

There's a comparison between the three free shopping applications available  for Google Android here: http://www.download.com/8301-2007_4-10075405-12.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20









> Of the three applications, Barcode Scanner best integrates Google technology by linking book searches to Google's Book Search arm. That, by extension, gives you access to all those searching, buying, and library-hunting services, albeit through a Web interface. We'd rather see those tools pulled into an easily-read UI.
> 
> By contrast, CompareEverywhere has the best community spirit and default discretion. If it can't find your barcode in the UPCDatabase it uses, it asks if you want to add your product. Its confirmation--a low buzz compared to the other two apps' shrill beeps--is also the least conspicuous if you're laying low while comparing DVD prices from a physical store. As I mentioned, CompareEverywhere also maps retail stores on its radar and can e-mail links to your gift ideas, shopping list, and wish list to whomever you choose.
> 
> ...


----------



## paolo (Oct 28, 2008)

I'm still up for the bet. No app bans or throttling in 12 months. £10 lovely cash is yours.

I sense a shuffling of feet here. "Well of course, it might happen, with some providers..." etc. In which case, say so. This "No apps will ever be banned" idea is *very* optimistic. Eat press release, regurgitate.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I sense a shuffling of feet here. "Well of course, it might happen, with some providers..." etc. In which case, say so. This "No apps will ever be banned" idea is *very* optimistic. Eat press release, regurgitate.


There's no shuffling of feet going on here - I'm just trying to make sense of your argument. Could you explain to me exactly how you think an app could be banned from all Android phones? 

As far as I know, no such global app bans ever happened on the WM or Palm operating systems, so why do you think it's going to start on Android?  I can't see how they could ban people installing what they like.

But network providers may well ban, say, modem tethering from some contracts but that would apply to all phones on that network, not just the Android ones, and presumably there'd be higher tariff options where that was allowed. So the apps wouldn't be banned, but users would be prevented from burning up excess bandwidth. But maybe you could give me some examples of the sort of apps that would be banned and how such bans would it be implemented and policed?

Oh and back to the Android store - are you aware that Google have a non exclusive deal with developers, so they're at liberty to  sell their apps wherever they like - and trouser all the cash for themselves if it's from their own site? Can you do that with Apple? No chance!


----------



## paolo (Oct 28, 2008)

We might be in agreement here: You can do what you like with Android, _providing your operator lets you_.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> We might be in agreement here: You can do what you like with Android, _providing your operator lets you_.


Which rather proves my point. There will be no restrictions on what you can install, but the network operators are free to impose bandwidth/usage conditions on your contract like they always have on all contracts. And that's got nothing to do with the phone itself and is totally unlike Apple's closed, highly controlled, power-freak system.

The good thing about Android is that you're also free to switch operators legally if you don't like what's on offer. Try doing that with an iPhone!

You still haven't explained how an app would be 'banned' or given any precedents of such bans being implemented on other platforms like Palm or WM.


----------



## tarannau (Oct 28, 2008)

There's a remote application 'kill switch' on the G1 isn't there? 

Theoretically Google can remove applications remotely, although it does seems unlikely.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2008)

tarannau said:


> There's a remote application 'kill switch' on the G1 isn't there?


Unlike the iPhone, Android is an open platform and doesn't try to brick your phone if it finds 'unauthorised' apps lurking, but there is the option to remove products that violate the developer distribution agreement. And seeing as the platform is totally open and apps unvetted, I can see the need for it:


> Android users might be more receptive to Google's remote kill switch than iPhone users were to Apple's for a couple of reasons. First, Google is being upfront about it. Apple didn't confirm the capability for the iPhone until days after a developer discovered it.
> 
> In addition, Google says that if it does remotely remove an application, it will try to get users their money back, a question that iPhone users have wondered about in the case of an iPhone application recall. Google said that it will make "reasonable efforts to recover the purchase price of the product ... from the original developer on your behalf." If Google fails to get the full amount back, it will divide what it gets among affected users.
> 
> ...


----------



## iskande (Oct 28, 2008)

editor said:


> Unlike the iPhone, Android is an open platform and doesn't try to brick your phone if it finds 'unauthorised' apps lurking



? the iphone doesnt get bricked if its jail-breaked. bloggers have also installed apps that were later pulled from the store. havent heard of anyone having their iphone bricked because of this. do you have a link ?


----------



## iskande (Oct 28, 2008)

editor said:


> If you're into hacking and generally fiddling about, Android's the only real player in town, unless you fancy locking yourself into endless update->Jailbreak-update->Jailbreak iPhone cycles.



? why jailbreak...? with developer access you can install what you want on a iphone


----------



## iskande (Oct 28, 2008)

iPhone Business Plan

* develop app
* avoid Apples rule of the day
* profit !

Andriod Business

* develop app
* wait four months until "early 2009"
* hope no-one produces free-ware / open-source app
* hope enough people buy android phones
* hope googles drm works
* profit ?

or

* develop app
* sort out web-hosting
* sort out payment facility
* do lots of advertising
* sort out drm to make sure poeple pay
* hope people dont pirate the app
* profit ?


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2008)

iskande;8251222]? why jailbreak...? with developer access you can install what you want on a iphone[/quote]Err said:


> ? the iphone doesnt get bricked if its jail-breaked. bloggers have also installed apps that were later pulled from the store. havent heard of anyone having their iphone bricked because of this. do you have a link ?





> An Apple software update is disabling iPhones that have been unlocked by owners who wanted to choose which mobile network to use.
> 
> Earlier this week Apple said a planned update would leave the device "permanently inoperable".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7017660.stm

I've no idea what your last post is on about by the way.


----------



## iskande (Oct 28, 2008)

editor said:


> Err, developer access costs $99, silly.



"If you're into hacking and generally fiddling about..." : depends how serious you are about fiddling. if you jail break you dont need to apply... 



editor said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7017660.stm



that story last updated: Friday, 28 September 2007, 09:38 GMT 10:38 UK . i have had my iphone jail-broken through the 2.1 update ok. and running unauthorised apps. 



editor said:


> I've no idea what your last post is on about by the way.



highlighting the differences in business plans for iphone and android using traditional slashdot business plans reference.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2008)

iskande said:


> that story last updated: Friday, 28 September 2007, 09:38 GMT 10:38 UK . i have had my iphone jail-broken through the 2.1 update ok. and running unauthorised apps.


Jolly good. Shame about your warranty though, but hey! - maybe Apple won't notice.

Anyway, back on topic, the G1 is going to be sold through Walmart stores in the US at the temptingly low price of $148.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/28/t-mobile-g1-coming-to-walmart-for-148-88/


----------



## jayeola (Oct 28, 2008)

/me thinks of getting a blackberry. t-mobile is rubbish at his mother's house


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2008)

jayeola said:


> /me thinks of getting a blackberry. t-mobile is rubbish at his mother's house


I had a go on the Bold today and was a bit unimpressed. The lack of a touchscreen is a killer.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 28, 2008)

I'd happily give up a touch screen for basic things like desktop sync out of the box...


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'd happily give up a touch screen for basic things like desktop sync out of the box...


It's only a matter of time until someone comes up with a bespoke solution, but there's this for now:
http://companionlink.org/products/android.html



> CompanionLink for Google will synchronize data from your desktop software (like Microsoft Outlook) with your Google Android phone. Two-way sync of contacts, calendar, and tasks lets you view and update your data from anywhere.
> 
> Our software runs on your PC and synchronizes data with your Google account. This data is then wirelessly synchronized with your Google Android phone (like the T-Mobile G1). Two-way sync ensures that any changes you make on the phone will be synchronized back to your Google account and your desktop software.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2008)

LOL! So I have to pay nearly 20 quid for something every single phone I've ever owned allowed me to do for free?!


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! So I have to pay nearly 20 quid for something every single phone I've ever owned allowed me to do for free?!


Or you could just wait. Or use something else. Or think about the things that this phone can do that every single phone you've ever owned doesn't.


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2008)

Looks like industry heavyweights Asus are planning an Android phone, possibly under the Eee brand.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/233352/asus-readying-androidbased-eee-phone.html


----------



## g force (Oct 29, 2008)

A brand they've gone about destroying through multiple and often random releases? Might not be such a hot idea. Asus IMO would be better served using their name or a new one for a phone. Eee to a lot of people is still the laptop/notebook brand.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2008)

editor said:


> Or you could just wait. Or use something else. Or think about the things that this phone can do that every single phone you've ever owned doesn't.



Not sure what they are to be honest; nothing I've seen so far has really made want to shell out and take on the many flaws it has. Thing is I don't see why anyone should have to wait for something that should come as standard (and does on virtually all other phones). Having decent PIM software and easy syncing are the bedrock of a smart phone not apps which show wiki articles overlaid over some mountain you maybe pointing your phone at... 

I love the concept [of Android] and really see the value in another big player in the smart phone market but can't shake this feeling it's going to be a good 12-18 months before any device is actually worth owning...


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Thing is I don't see why anyone should have to wait for something that should come as standard (and does on virtually all other phones).


Tell that to iPhone users who are still waiting for the _real basics_ like cut and paste, video, picture messaging etc etc!

Mind you, those startling omissions don't seem to have stopped a shitload of people rushing out to buy the phone. Perhaps if you're waiting for the phone that has everything, you'll be in for a very long wait. Or you could just get a WM device that really has kuist about every feature you could ever wish for but is a dog to use.


Kid_Eternity said:


> Not sure what they are to be honest; nothing I've seen so far has really made want to shell out and take on the many flaws it has.


Well, there you go. It's not for you.

Personally I find it a very exciting platform where real innovation is already taking place, and I'd rather be part of an open source project than a closed environment.


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2008)

g force said:


> A brand they've gone about destroying through multiple and often random releases?


They may be hell bent on diluting the brand but it's been a MASSIVE success.


----------



## Iam (Oct 29, 2008)

editor said:


> Tell that to iPhone users who are still waiting for the _real basics_ like cut and paste, video, picture messaging etc etc!



I give far less of a toss about any of those things than you do, and I actually _have_ an iPhone...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 29, 2008)

editor said:


> Perhaps if you're waiting for the phone that has everything, you'll be in for a very long wait.



It seems a shame that have to be the case though, it really is almost there, but the ability to sync out the box should be there. That said the app you linked to looks cool, I really having contacts backed up on my pc, phone and online and that seems to make it seamless. It also seems mad that they missed the option to put a 3.5mm headphone jack on, it can't cost them much to do and other HTC devices have it. 

I really like the idea of being part of an open source project, but like KE, I think its a little bit of being ready, although hopefully will be sorted in a shorter timeframe.

BTW Symbian on Nokia doesn't have cut and paste and they sell bucket loads. Not to say it shouldn't be there, but its obviously not a deal breaker to many people.


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2008)

Iam said:


> I give far less of a toss about any of those things than you do, and I actually _have_ an iPhone...


And that's why I haven't got an iPhone despite its glorious interface and delightful form factor.

I'm not after a style icon, I want a capable phone. Viva la difference.


----------



## Mitre10 (Oct 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Anyway, back on topic, the G1 is going to be sold through Walmart stores in the US at the temptingly low price of $148.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/28/t-mobile-g1-coming-to-walmart-for-148-88/




Hmm, I have a different HTC running WM at the moment via T-mobile.

I bet when it comes to upgrade time they will want rather more than £80 from me to get a G1...


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2008)

It's on sale in the UK today. The phone is free on a £40/month deal.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Tell that to iPhone users who are still waiting for the _real basics_ like cut and paste, video, picture messaging etc etc!
> 
> Mind you, those startling omissions don't seem to have stopped a shitload of people rushing out to buy the phone. Perhaps if you're waiting for the phone that has everything, you'll be in for a very long wait. Or you could just get a WM device that really has kuist about every feature you could ever wish for but is a dog to use.



Well apart from crap battery and no 3G the Centro is pretty much doing everything I expect of a smart phone at the moment...



> Well, there you go. It's not for you.
> 
> Personally I find it a very exciting platform where real innovation is already taking place, and I'd rather be part of an open source project than a closed environment.



It would be for me if they got their act together, the phone really is a public beta release...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> BTW Symbian on Nokia doesn't have cut and paste and they sell bucket loads. Not to say it shouldn't be there, but its obviously not a deal breaker to many people.



Indeed. I'd say video recording/decent camera are a far bigger desire for people on the whole than c+p...


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed. I'd say video recording/decent camera are a far bigger desire for people on the whole than c+p...


Video is actually quite low, but folks want a good camera, Bluetooth - and a radio would be nice too:


> Digital camera functionality, Bluetooth connectivity, and music/radio playback on mobile phones are the top three features that consumers consider essential for the next mobile phone they will purchase, according to a recent ABI Research survey of 1,402 current wireless subscribers in seven countries. The desire for camera phones with 2+ megapixels leads the pack with 47% of consumers listing this feature as a "must have," followed by Bluetooth at 34% and music/FM radio functionality at 32%.
> 
> http://www.fiercewireless.com/press...&utm_source=internal&cmp-id=EMC-NL-FW&dest=FW


Here's the details of today's G1 launch:


> The G1 will only be available to T-Mobile users and will be given away free with a £40 per month contract, consisting of either the Combi 35 plan, with 800 minutes and unlimited texts, or Flext 40, which gives up to 1,250 minutes or up to 2,500 texts or any mix of the two.
> http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2229376/android-comes-uk


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2008)

Glad to note that the queue for the G1 in Oxford St was minimal (I fucking hate this heavily manipulated US showbiz bullshit), but one of the guys buying the phone probably summed up its appeal to best to techie/early adoters:


> "There are lots of programmers and techies here for the handset," he said. "I want to make a couple of applications for the handset, and getting it now will give me the chance to practise with it before Google starts charging for apps later next year.
> 
> "The new platform is going to be more flexible [than the like of BlackBerry and Apple]."
> 
> He admitted he struggled to choose between this handset and the iPhone, but in the end chose the G1 due to its development potential, as many other programmers would be getting their hands on the phone and soon there would be a number of applications and programs floating around on the internet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2008)

I just tried to log on to the T Mobile site to see what the deal was and it was a bit confusing tbh, the site's probably under some strain and not working right but the basket emptied the minute I chose a tariff for the phone!


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2008)

The T Mobile site is *shit*. It drives me crazy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2008)

editor said:


> The T Mobile site is *shit*. It drives me crazy.



You aint alone there...it's in serious need of a change...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2008)

More apps like this please (IE ones with practical day to day use)!



> Budget Droid is an app for the Android platform that helps you budget out your expenses when on the go. This app is really useful, to the point where it even defaults to having Alcohol and Video Games as two of the categories pre-programmed with this app.
> 
> There are four different areas to Budget Droid: Purchase, Budgets, History, and About. Purchase lets you select a category, enter the total, add notes, and add the transaction to your list. Budgets is where you would set a monthly budget for a category or create a brand new category to use. In the History area, you'll see a breakdown of your budget, amount spent, remaining, and transaction history.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2008)

The Telegraph love it to bits, with their video presenters giving it 9/10 and 10/10.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1138370360/bctid1886217007


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 30, 2008)

I just had a quick look at the sdk and if it's anywhere near as good as GWT then I can see some decent apps being made quick sharpish.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2008)

T3 are digging it too:


> The G1 is a smart choice for anyone who doesn't want an iPhone, whether that be due to the O2 exclusivity, the fact they're an Apple hater, or they despise the lack of truly open source applications on offer. The G1 is a fair alternative to the iPhone, but also a darn good phone in its own right. The best thing about it is it'll only get better, with the Android Marketplace launching properly next January, and thousands, if not millions, of people creating and adding to the rich Android platform.
> 
> The best test, however, is asking whether we'd buy one. And you know what? We think we would.
> http://www.t3.com/telecom/mobile-phones/google-android-g1-review-review


----------



## Iam (Oct 31, 2008)

editor said:


> And that's why I haven't got an iPhone despite its glorious interface and delightful form factor.
> 
> I'm not after a style icon, I want a capable phone. Viva la difference.



Well, indeed.

Personally, it does more than I would ever use it for already.

But so would all the others, truthfully.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2008)

Iam said:


> Well, indeed.
> 
> Personally, it does more than I would ever use it for already.
> 
> But so would all the others, truthfully.


Well, that's the thing. If you're coming from something like a bog standard handset, the iPhone is a revelation, but if you're already used smartphones, then its shortcomings quickly become apparent.


----------



## Iam (Oct 31, 2008)

I've had 3 WM smartphones prior to this, and currently have a TyTnII.

I know which I'd rather use...


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2008)

editor said:


> Well, that's the thing. If you're coming from something like a bog standard handset, the iPhone is a revelation, but if you're already used smartphones, then its shortcomings quickly become apparent.



Not necessarily, Ive been using smartphones for years but the iphones shortcomings are not affecting me one bit, well apart from the camera.


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2008)

elbows said:


> Not necessarily, Ive been using smartphones for years but the iphones shortcomings are not affecting me one bit, well apart from the camera.


Well clearly you've never had call to copy and paste address details, snippets from documents, passwords, Wi-Fi passwords etc or forward text messages (which I do several times a week). They're make or break issues for me.

I had a play on the Android phone today and it's very, very slick. It's not such an integarted consumer-based offering as the iPhone but there's a lot to love there. The interface makes WM look like something from the neolithic age and the drag down status bar is genius.

I didn't know the camera did geo-tagging either, and the snaps I took looked pretty damn good.

It's quite big, but I gave it the 'pocket test' and it passed with flying colours.

It's a really, really interesting phone with an exciting future. Consider me very interested.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2008)

How did you find the keyboard? There's been plenty of complaints that its not easy to type on due to the buttons and the 'chin'....


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How did you find the keyboard? There's been plenty of complaints that its not easy to type on due to the buttons and the 'chin'....


Didn't have any problem at all with the chin, although the keys could have been a little higher. It's still way better than the iPhone's fiddly onscreen thing though.

They've got the G1 on demo at T Mobile on Oxford St if you fancy a play. I was very impressed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2008)

Might have to pop down there for a look...


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Might have to pop down there for a look...


I'll be surprised if you're not really impressed!


----------



## paolo (Nov 1, 2008)

I'll definitely go and have a look.

(I'd caveat your comment about the iPhone screen keyboard being fiddly - alot of people get on with it fine. I was hopeless with your Treo, but I'm sure I'd be flying on it after a short while. I minded to think that there's a degree of muscle-memory here. If you are fluent on one, trying the other is challenging.)

Not that any of the detracts from the G1s hard key keyboard - overall it should be better to use, albeit adding bulk and requiring slide out.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> (I'd caveat your comment about the iPhone screen keyboard being fiddly - alot of people get on with it fine. I was hopeless with your Treo, but I'm sure I'd be flying on it after a short while. I minded to think that there's a degree of muscle-memory here. If you are fluent on one, trying the other is challenging.)


I think it's pretty much universally acknowledged that a proper hardware keyboard is better than a virtual onscreen one. That's why everyone's still using proper keyboards on their laptops and desktops and not poking glass screens.


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2008)

Which is what I said in my final sentance that you've not quoted!

"The G1 keyboard should be *better*"

*exhasperated*


----------



## iskande (Nov 2, 2008)

editor said:


> I think it's pretty much universally acknowledged that a proper hardware keyboard is better than a virtual onscreen one. That's why everyone's still using proper keyboards on their laptops and desktops and not poking glass screens.



where...?


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> *exhasperated*


There's no need to get exasperated! I was just making a general point - a point that some people apparently fail to
grasp (see below):





iskande said:


> where...?


A: Here.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2008)

Looks like Exchange synchronisation is coming to Android soon:
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=14539


----------



## iskande (Nov 3, 2008)

editor said:


> :A: Here.



60 people arent a statistically signficant sample ...


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2008)

iskande said:


> 60 people arent a statistically signficant sample ...


So, again: why do you think people use real keyboards on PCs and laptops rather than virtual ones?


----------



## iskande (Nov 3, 2008)

editor said:


> So, again: why do you think people use real keyboards on PCs and laptops rather than virtual ones?



thought we were talking about the android phone ? at risk of derail i think people use real keyboards because the tech isnt there yet. i havent seen a decent onscreen keyboard that uses multitouch - apart from the iphone. and at the minute physical keyboards are cheaper, more reliable ...

in the future technology will (hopefully !) improve so perhaps there will be more onscreen keyboards used. more multitouch, haptics, etc ...

but isnt it personal opinion ? some people prefer x some people prefer y. at least with android you can choose !


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2008)

iskande said:


> but isnt it personal opinion ? some people prefer x some people prefer y. at least with android you can choose !


Some people may prefer pushing a dead screen with no tactile feedback, but every study I've seen - and every review - puts a proper hardware keyboard ahead as a better user experience. 

I've used both and always prefer proper keyboards - you can select shortcuts quicker and 'feel' the keys without having to keep looking down at the thing.



> *The Bottom Line*
> 
> The bottom line is that, with whatever text editing application you chose for your iPhone, you are still typing on the iPhone. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. For the iPhone to become a serious mobile platform for writing or note-taking, it needs some sort of tactile, almost-full-size keyboard. The iPhone keyboard isn't bad—hold the hate mail—it just isn't for serious text entry.
> http://arstechnica.com/journals/app...e-text-editor-shoot-out-writeroom-vs-textguru


----------



## Crispy (Nov 3, 2008)

Tactile response is what gives a physical keyboard its advantage. Until they figure out a way of making a shape-shifting screen to put 'bobbles' on the keys, touchscreen keyboards will always have this disadvantage. However, touchscreen keyboards allow you to have a bigger screen, so some people are happy with the compromise.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Tactile response is what gives a physical keyboard its advantage. Until they figure out a way of making a shape-shifting screen to put 'bobbles' on the keys, touchscreen keyboards will always have this disadvantage....


The new Blackberry Storm screen sports an interesting development with an innovative clickable touchscreen, but it's still going to be real keyboards FTW for me.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 3, 2008)

When are the next Android handsets coming out? Any time soon?

I'd like to use it, simply 'cos I'm getting bored with my N95, but until Exchange sync is sorted and until an Android hansdet has a 3.5mm jack, it's not an option.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> When are the next Android handsets coming out? Any time soon?


Not till next year, I reckon. Exchange is coming. 

The lack of a 3.5mm jack is spectacularly stupid. I recommend you try out the G1 at T Mobile store in Oxford St if you want a flavour of the OS. I was muchos impressed.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 3, 2008)

editor said:


> Not till next year, I reckon. Exchange is coming.



I saw the exchange article you posted earlier on, third-party, likely to be expensive as it's considered a business app.

I'll see if they have it at the High St Kensington branch.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 3, 2008)

> The Bottom Line
> 
> The bottom line is that, with whatever text editing application you chose for your iPhone, you are still typing on the iPhone. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. For the iPhone to become a serious mobile platform for writing or note-taking, it needs some sort of tactile, almost-full-size keyboard. The iPhone keyboard isn't bad—hold the hate mail—it just isn't for serious text entry.
> http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...om-vs-textguru



I dont think that the phone is really for the commercial user.  

Its a for the mass market casual phone who want to enter the odd text and update their facebook status or enter a forum post.  If you wanted to enter large amount of text for work, I think a small laptop would be a better choice.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Tactile response is what gives a physical keyboard its advantage. Until they figure out a way of making a shape-shifting screen to put 'bobbles' on the keys, touchscreen keyboards will always have this disadvantage. However, touchscreen keyboards allow you to have a bigger screen, so some people are happy with the compromise.



Nah it's because humans haven't evolved enough to be able to deal with it mentally yet. The iPhone will change all that though.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 3, 2008)

Trick to get use to is not to press the screen, just to touch it as lightly as possible.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2008)

Here's a round up of Android 'best of' apps reviews:

*Best Android Apps to Boost Your Mobile Productivity (So Far)*
http://lifehacker.com/5075332/best-android-apps-to-boost-your-mobile-productivity-so-far

*In Pictures: 15 Killer Android Apps for the G1*
http://www.pcworld.com/article/152384-2/in_pictures_15_killer_android_apps_for_the_g1.html

*The Top 10 Google Android Apps *
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2333328,00.asp
*
Google G1 phone: Top 10 Android applications*
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?xml=/connected/2008/10/30/dlgoogapps130.xml

*Google Reveal The Top 50 Android Applications*
http://www.talkandroid.com/92-developer-challenge-top-50-android-application/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 4, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nah it's because humans haven't evolved enough to be able to deal with it mentally yet. The iPhone will change all that though.



Will it fuck


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Will it fuck



It will man, it will! Jobs was sent here from the future to help us evolve through nice looking but expensive consumer electronics. Fact!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 4, 2008)

Lifehacker said:
			
		

> You want your to-do's in the cloud, and you want them on your phone. There are quite a few list apps available for Android, but TooDo is my pick for the serious GTD crowd. TooDo is a very rich to-do manager that does all the things a featureful desktop task manager does—including reminders, categories, and dependencies—with some sweet location-aware goodness too, like geographical-based reminders (ie, if you're within range of the dry cleaner, pick up the pants).



Sounds like another cool location aware app.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2008)

A TomTom app would be very useful too...any idea why they've not done one for the iPhone?


----------



## Sunray (Nov 4, 2008)

There is a provision in the SDK that prevents anyone doing that sort of application.   I think its to do with different licensing requirement from Apple, perhaps getting exclusivity.

There is also the possibility the A-GPS might not be good enough to support it.  I know that its not the greatest getting a lock in a built up area.  I expect that that will become available in the future.  Its not like Apple are famous for creating Sat Nav software.  Would need a separate car kit so it could be mounted sideways, the display can only be run for about 4 hours straight on the battery.

http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/06/17/tomtom-clears-up-iphone-satnav-confusion/


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2008)

Someone's had the first stab at tethering a G1: http://androidguys.com/?p=2597


----------



## Sunray (Nov 8, 2008)

Listening to PC Pro's pod cast, they love the OS which is up there with the iPhone, but they are less than impressed with the hardware.  One even says he's not even going to look at android until better hardware arrives.

Given that its a HTC phone and they make other nice phones, like the Touch Pro, they say its a real disappointment, at 40 quid a month making it the same price overall as the iPhone (without the Wifi remember).

I think that it may well be one to marvel at but not buy, leave it for the dev's who want it for development of software.  There will be better h/w out for this by mid next year and the G1 will be just a forgotten footnote in Android's history.


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2008)

I spent about 15 minutes with one today. Cheap feel hardware aside, the OS seems a bit rough at the edges. Far worse though was the map app crashing and taking out the whole OS. Looong reboot time. Prob 2 or 3 times as long as the iPhone, where I've only had 2 total hangs in 12 months.

Although it was showing 3 bars of 3G reception, I could only very sporadic data comms. I'm sure it's fine generally, and to be fair I couldn't get much better from O2 in that location, however the iPhone showed no bars. Maybe the G1's signal strength display is a little optimistic?

Because of this I couldn't give the browser a work out, which for me is the most important thing. Music player looked very rough, but obviously it works.

Need to have another play before having any strong opinion on Android, but first impressions were a bit mixed.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 8, 2008)

I've just been using the SDK emulator and while not heaping praise on it, some of the flaws are instantly obvious, its looking very much a jump away from everything other than the iPhone, even if it does rip some of the technology.

Software development is very much a tug of war between getting it right and getting it out of the door.  In this case I think the G1 came a bit early and the OS looks a bit rough round the edges as a result. I think the community is being very forgiving in this case, so its not too bad a thing.

As long as they take on board all the feedback they will get and continue to go in the direction they are going it will get some momentum behind it.

My gut feeling is that the G1 is a dev hardware that accidentally made it out into peoples pockets.  I think it got released as Google were coming under pressure to release something to show the hardware partners that there is a market for these devices.  No hardware all that effort would be wasted.  I am still curious how much Google paid HTC to mass produce these handsets as I am 100% certain that HTC would never front such a risky project.

Its going reasonably well but its rushed.  The G1 is poor hardware for a good OS.  I'm hopeful that 6-12 months from now there will be at least 2-3 phones out there, perhaps one from Motorola who are good at making nice hardware but utterly horrendous at the software.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 8, 2008)

My feeling is still the same, give it 12-18 months and it'll mature enough to the point where the apps and the hardware will be good and as good as each other. I'd agree that the G1 basically is a public beta (nice of them to allow us to pay for their testing) too.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 8, 2008)

Something like the X1 (which HTC make for Sony) or a version of the Touch HD with a small drop down (or virtual) keyboard would be a huge leap in Android hardware.  Lack of that 3.5mm jack is a monumental omission if your going to compete with the iPhone (and given the videos on the google site about android they desperately do), whos primary selling point is that its an iPod!

The PC Pro pod cast team said, and I agree, its a consumer OS in business hardware.

E2a:

The register are suggesting that Asus will do an Android phone? They look quite nice, here's one.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/08/22/review_asus_m930_windows_smartphone/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 8, 2008)

I'd love the X1 hardware running Android! That Asus one looks pretty smart too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 8, 2008)

I'd love the X1 hardware running Android! That Asus one looks pretty smart too.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Something like the X1 (which HTC make for Sony) or a version of the Touch HD with a small drop down (or virtual) keyboard would be a huge leap in Android hardware.  Lack of that 3.5mm jack is a monumental omission if your going to compete with the iPhone (and given the videos on the google site about android they desperately do), whos primary selling point is that its an iPod!



I know I've mentioned it before, but a Touch HD with android would be sweet, thats a whole lot of screen on the device and a drop down keyboard would make it all the nicer. With that res it could even challenge some netbooks. 





Sunray said:


> The register are suggesting that Asus will do an Android phone? They look quite nice, here's one.
> 
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/08/22/review_asus_m930_windows_smartphone/









That's a lot of wasted space around the screen. A bigger screen for the same form factor would make it a lot nicer!


----------



## Sunray (Nov 9, 2008)

Given that Android is Open source, I can see no reason why it can't be just compiled on top of WM6?

The Touch hardware might well be closed, but WM6 exposes it all in well defined ways.  Interesting project that would be, I think that Google have opened the code up now.


----------



## paolo (Nov 9, 2008)

I'd be surprised if WM would be so liberal with hardware access to allow another OS to have the authoratative control it would inherently need - dialling numbers, configuring comms etc. I'd like to be proven wrong though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 9, 2008)

Went to the T Mobile shop on Oxford Street today to have a look at the G1 and the bloody thing had no power. Two things struck me: didn't like the way the screen slides out. almost expected it to shoot off (reminded of the cashl till in Open All	hours for some reason)! The buttons are very flat aren't they?


----------



## iskande (Nov 9, 2008)

played with one as well. felt very cheap and the hinge to move the keyboard feels very flimsy. (the non-fucntional demo had already broken). the ui was fast, but opening apps seemed slow. and it was confusing that you had to keep switching from the touchscreen to the keypad. wasnt a huge face of the keyboard.  theres no "give" to it. might as well be pounding on a touch screen.


----------



## paolo (Nov 9, 2008)

I really struggled with the keyboard. I'm much much faster on the iPhone. Maybe because I find that because it only needs a gentle tap at each key, I'm not delayed by having to make a positive press. Maybe that's just me though? The auto correct helps lots too.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 9, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I'd be surprised if WM would be so liberal with hardware access to allow another OS to have the authoratative control it would inherently need - dialling numbers, configuring comms etc. I'd like to be proven wrong though.



All of the above is done using very old Windows NT4 and older API's.   WM6 for all its faults as a mobile OS is essentially Windows 2000 with bits missing.

Its just a matter of figuring out what sort of hardware access the OS needs to run and then convert that to Win32 calls.  Clearly this would add another layer of code to the whole process, but it would work.

e2a : Given the 162 page thread people are already trying to do this very thing.  Someone has booted Android on a WM6 phone, dunno if it works but looks like that may well happen in the near future.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=396782&page=1

Here is a video
http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=2ewgnec&s=3


----------



## paolo (Nov 9, 2008)

Ooh. Cool. Even if it doesn't become a fully stable thing, it might inspire a manufacturer to put some extra focus on a new Android device.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 10, 2008)

Oops! 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/10/android_bug/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2008)

I refer the right honourable cybertect to the comments I made some pages ago: this is a beta device. Buy it with that in mind you'll be fine, don't expect iPhone levels of refinement....


----------



## iskande (Nov 11, 2008)

no firefox for you, android..!

"Jay Sullivan, vice president of mobile at Mozilla, told ABC News that one of Google's rules will prevent his company from creating an Android version of its web browser. Google requires all applications that are listed on the Android Market, the official software store for this operating system, to be written in Java. That isn't the programming language Mozilla wants to use."
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=14578


----------



## Sunray (Nov 11, 2008)

'Mozilla don't want to spend years of work rewriting their browser in Java for no actual gain'

The Java engine is there because its cross platform and android is supposed to run on many hardware targets.


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 11, 2008)

Sunray said:


> 'Mozilla don't want to spend years of work rewriting their browser in Java for no actual gain'
> 
> The Java engine is there because its cross platform and android is supposed to run on many hardware targets.



Mozilla build their source code on multiple hardware targets already.
They wouldn't gain anything from switching to Java, they'd just end up with a different set of compatibility and portability issues like every other Java application in the world.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 11, 2008)

Is there anything to stop them putting it up for download on their own site?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 11, 2008)

nothing at all, afaik


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Is there anything to stop them putting it up for download on their own site?


Nope. Unlike Apple, Google does not demand sole and exclusive distribution rights for programs placed in their app store.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 11, 2008)

So there is nothing to stop them writing it anyway and having it for download on their site. Why the fuss?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 11, 2008)

Most 'regular' users will probably head straight to the app store when looking for new things, but then firefox is arguably well-known enough to not need that sort of windowshopping.


----------



## iskande (Nov 11, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> So there is nothing to stop them writing it anyway and having it for download on their site. Why the fuss?



there would be no help from google so they would have reverse engineer everything ... also , the integration between firefox for android and the rest of android wouldnt be very clean .


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Most 'regular' users will probably head straight to the app store when looking for new things, but then firefox is arguably well-known enough to not need that sort of windowshopping.


Android stores like handago will probably prove popular too - after all Palm developers managed to make a living for years by flogging their programs on various websites without a central app store.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 11, 2008)

Quite funny: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7722367.stm

If you type *reboot* into a text message, the phone does just that


----------



## Iam (Nov 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Quite funny: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7722367.stm
> 
> If you type *reboot* into a text message, the phone does just that



Ace.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 11, 2008)

My advice to anyone interested in this platform is to wait for at least 6 months and for new and better hardware.

Too rough round the edges for general use right now.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 11, 2008)

fen_boy said:


> Mozilla build their source code on multiple hardware targets already.
> They wouldn't gain anything from switching to Java, they'd just end up with a different set of compatibility and portability issues like every other Java application in the world.




Java itself is fine and portable.  It's bad java using JNDI, java with weird endorsed jars (usually only pre 1.5 stuff that does either crypto or xml) or the containers that run java applications that are to blame.


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 12, 2008)

fractionMan said:


> Java itself is fine and portable.  It's bad java using JNDI, java with weird endorsed jars (usually only pre 1.5 stuff that does either crypto or xml) or the containers that run java applications that are to blame.



Or compatibilty issues between different JVM versions or platform specific issues with the - natively compiled - JVM on different platforms.


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2008)

I'm trying to see if I can use my press credentials to get a better deal for the G1 and there's some hope on the horizon. It probably won't replace my Centro for a while yet, but I'm keen to try out the new features and be part of an interesting new platform.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2008)

Try not to get a contract for that phone. 

The more I read about it the more I get the impression it was rushed out and that the platform is interesting but the hardware is poor. Being able to reboot the phone with 'reboot' in a text gives away that its not really ready for general use.  

18 months with developer, rough and ready hardware and software at 40 quid a month could be a world of pain.   

I really do think that it needs 6 to 12 months work before they start to add that final 'spit and polish' as one of my old work colleagues use to say.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 12, 2008)

That's what the register reckons too

http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/11/12/review_smartphone_android_g1/

Fantastic software. Compromised hardware. Wait a bit.


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2008)

Sunray said:


> The more I read about it the more I get the impression it was rushed out and that the platform is interesting but the hardware is poor.


Come on: it's not that rough at all. It's picked up loads of *very* positive reviews. I've no interest in an 18 month contract though.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2008)

PC Pro team, who I rate, were less than impressed with the hardware and until better hardware comes out (or someone recompiles Android for a nice phone) they weren't keen.

If you are willing to put up with the roughness to watch it evolve, that's fine, but a contract would be folly.  I have a suspicion that someone will get it working on Touch HD or PRO or X1, at a stroke solving the hardware problem.  With those running Android, your going to be feeling a bit fucked off holding your G1. 

Reverse engineering it all is hard and takes ages. With the know how at HTC, they could probably have it running in a week or two on any of their capable phones.


----------



## iskande (Nov 12, 2008)

interesting piece on Android firmware updates : http://m.news.com/2166-12_3-10094102-83.html

remember, when Apple kept mum and just said thier firmware had "bug fixes" the blogosphere went ape ... the articles thrust is for o/s thats supposed to be open the bug-fixing is anything but ...

oh, and google are clamping down on jailbreakers : http://www.androidauthority.com/ind...irmware-update-to-fix-g1-jailbreak-back-door/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Try not to get a contract for that phone.
> 
> The more I read about it the more I get the impression it was rushed out and that the platform is interesting but the hardware is poor. Being able to reboot the phone with 'reboot' in a text gives away that its not really ready for general use.
> 
> ...



I agree except I'm thinking I'll wait 12-18 months to give handset makers the chance to make a decent spread so I've got some good choices to make...


----------



## g force (Nov 12, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I agree except I'm thinking I'll wait 12-18 months to give handset makers the chance to make a decent spread so I've got some good choices to make...



^^^ This....I'm interested in seeing what they come up with but for now i'll stick with the BlackBerry.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2008)

I don't really see Android challenging Blackberry. 

I think some people forget that for the push email that Blackberries are so famous for you need to install BES somewhere on the web or have it hosted.  Without it you don't get the push email and encryption.  RIM has defined its own space (corporate email) rather brilliantly no other maker has really encroached upon that area.


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2008)

50 tips for Android users here: http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...-for-the-t-mobile-g1-android-482965?artc_pg=1


----------



## Kanda (Nov 12, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I don't really see Android challenging Blackberry.
> 
> I think some people forget that for the push email that Blackberries are so famous for you need to install BES somewhere on the web or have it hosted. Without it you don't get the push email and encryption. RIM has defined its own space (corporate email) rather brilliantly no other maker has really encroached upon that area.


 
iPhone steps up here quite well with Push email, took me 5 mins to configure our Exchange server and my phone.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 12, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I don't really see Android challenging Blackberry.
> 
> I think some people forget that for the push email that Blackberries are so famous for you need to install BES somewhere on the web or have it hosted.  Without it you don't get the push email and encryption.  RIM has defined its own space (corporate email) rather brilliantly no other maker has really encroached upon that area.



Anyone with Exchange 2003 onwards has push email available to them on iPhone, Symbian and Windows Mobile. I have push email on my N95, did on my N73 and HTC as well. It's just that Blackberry shout about it more.


----------



## elbows (Nov 12, 2008)

Yeah, dont even need to use Exchange, I use Kerio mailserver and it can push to iphone & symbian, probably others too.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 13, 2008)

Well, I've taken the plunge - I've just been offered an upgrade by T-Mobile that reduces my monthly bill and gives me the handset for free


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2008)

Waheey! I'll look forward to your feedback. I've been reading through some of the Android forums and there seems to be a lot of people who are well chuffed with the handset. What was the deal you got (you can PM me this if you like!).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 13, 2008)

editor said:


> Waheey! I'll look forward to your feedback. I've been reading through some of the Android forums and there seems to be a lot of people who are well chuffed with the handset. What was the deal you got (you can PM me this if you like!).



Flex 30, with web 'n' walk for free


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Flex 30, with web 'n' walk for free


that compares rather more favourably than the £40/month 18 month contract plus £305 handset they offered me. The cunts.

*envy


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Flex 30, with web 'n' walk for free



How the bloody hell did you get that!?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 13, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How the bloody hell did you get that!?



I'm 6 months overdue for an upgrade, I said I wanted a G1, they made the offer 


I've gone for a white one, I don't like it in black.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 13, 2008)

editor said:


> that compares rather more favourably than the £40/month 18 month contract plus £305 handset they offered me. The cunts.
> 
> *envy



I guess it's to do with what you've been paying each month up till now - my average bill has been around the 40 quid mark for two years, whereas you only pay something like 20 iirc?


----------



## Sunray (Nov 13, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Anyone with Exchange 2003 onwards has push email available to them on iPhone, Symbian and Windows Mobile. I have push email on my N95, did on my N73 and HTC as well. It's just that Blackberry shout about it more.



Their email system provides end to end Blackberry encryption which those other email systems don't.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 13, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Their email system provides end to end Blackberry encryption which those other email systems don't.



Which is fine until you leave your Blackberry on a train


----------



## iskande (Nov 13, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Their email system provides end to end Blackberry encryption which those other email systems don't.



mostly pointless if the email isnt encrypted from the sender all the way through . you can also get push email from most consumer blackberry providers .


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2008)

cybertect said:


> Which is fine until you leave your Blackberry on a train


I think you can remotely delete mail and/or the entire contents of the phone and memory card, like you can on the Palm.


----------



## iskande (Nov 13, 2008)

editor said:


> I think you can remotely delete mail and/or the entire contents of the phone and memory card, like you can on the Palm.



blackberries can be set to store all data held as encrypted. very tough cookies.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 13, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Their email system provides end to end Blackberry encryption which those other email systems don't.



Not really a concern for small businesses, mind. 

At a corporate level, I'd go with with a BES server every time. At small business level, why waste the money?


----------



## Sunray (Nov 13, 2008)

Of course, but I refer you to the original post where I state that RIM has brilliantly positioned them as 'the' corporate email solution and that Android (or any other player really) doesn't really have a hope in hell in that space unless RIM do a Palm and looking at their new line of phones, doesn't look like it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 14, 2008)

I missed the bloody delivery of my G1 today  

Expect a first hands on review tomorrow!


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2008)

Bah! I'm looking forward to your verdict! Although you're sure to find rough edges a plenty this early on in the game, I still think it's a really interesting phone and would my first choice of upgrade if T Mobile weren't being such cunts.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 14, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I missed the bloody delivery of my G1 today
> 
> Expect a first hands on review tomorrow!



Your a brave man, I know I wouldn't.  HTC Touch HD or Pro with Android might even tempt me awa... no, no its gonna take something earth shatteringly good for me to leave Apples grasp.

You got a decent deal though.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Your a brave man, I know I wouldn't.  HTC Touch HD or Pro with Android might even tempt me awa... no, no its gonna take something earth shatteringly good for me to leave Apples grasp.


Depends on how comfortable you are being in "Apple's grasp" innit?

I fucking hate the way they operate, but their phone's great.

He's hardly "brave" either. Loads of people are more than happy with their G1.


----------



## paolo (Nov 14, 2008)

Apple giveth and takeaway.

At the moment, the give more than take, but that might not be the same in a year or two. Second to them, Android is definitely the most interesting thing going on at the moment. And there's no signs yet of the others stepping up to the plate.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 14, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Your a brave man, I know I wouldn't.  HTC Touch HD or Pro with Android might even tempt me awa... no, no its gonna take something earth shatteringly good for me to leave Apples grasp.
> 
> You got a decent deal though.



It's the fact that I'm getting the phone for free that swung it really - if it's rubbish I haven't lost anything.

I'm fairly sure I'll like it though - I use Google for pretty much everything now (email, calendar and docs) so the tight integration is a big plus.

The lack of a 3.5mm jack is a fucker though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 14, 2008)

editor said:


> I still think it's a really interesting phone and would my first choice of upgrade if T Mobile weren't being such cunts.



Have you threatened to leave T-Mobile if they don't offer a better deal?


----------



## paolo (Nov 14, 2008)

3.5mm jack issue isn't the end of the world... Should be cheap 3rd party adaptors along soon. Apple (same problem on the first iPhone due to the recess) had bins full of adaptors in their shops. Irritating but not (IMHO) a show stopper.


----------



## paolo (Nov 14, 2008)

bees... Yep, I'd like more seamless integration for google stuff. I'm quite "google centric"  ... Mail is "good enough" on the iPhone, but for the rest you have to use web apps, and to me they aren't a proper solution. I want my calendar to be my calendar, not dependent on connection.

I'd be very interested to know if Android does this... If you can see your google
Calendar when not connected... I assume yes?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 14, 2008)

That's the case, yes.
If android starts seeing bigger takeup, apple are going to have to make mobileme (or a subset of it) available for free. As a pay service it doesn't compete with google's free integration


----------



## nick h. (Nov 14, 2008)

Got one today! Loving it. My trusty Orange Blue Angel gave up the ghost this morning after nearly 4 years service, so I just strolled into T-Mobile and came out with this extraordinary beast. Google already runs my life and I reckon it always will, so it was a no-brainer. SO easy to set up - I did it in the coffee shop next door in 2 mins and couldn't stop laughing. My Hotmail account was equally simple.

I could have gone for a rather limited £15 per month contract and paid £99 for the handset, but I chose £40 a month, free handset, huge number of minutes which I shall definitely use, and 'unlimited' internet, which really means 10 gig per month, doesn't it? It'll be fun torrenting it up the wall to see what T-Mobile say.  

I love the hardware - can't understand all the moaning. The finish is lovely and the swing-screen thingy is nice and solid. It's got a subtle Braun-calculator stylee - most delicious. Glad I didn't get a white one. My only gripe is that the touch screen was operated by my ear when I was punching in numbers on an automated switchboard thingy. 

The openness and popularity with 3rd parties makes it about 326 times more desirable than any Apple product in my book.  I bet you could install a new app twice a day for the rest of your life. And you're even permitted to swap the battery without posting your phone away to the manufacturer. (How can anyone depend on a phone which has to be stuck in the post for gawd's sake?)  

I even called customer services (at 5 pm on a Friday) and they answered after 2 rings and knew everything I asked! 

Life is good.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 15, 2008)

You're paid by Google admit it.


----------



## nick h. (Nov 15, 2008)

It even gives you a big happy smiley face when you look at the swingy-screen from behind!


----------



## Sunray (Nov 15, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> bees... Yep, I'd like more seamless integration for google stuff. I'm quite "google centric"  ... *Mail is "good enough"* on the iPhone, but for the rest you have to use web apps, and to me they aren't a proper solution. I want my calendar to be my calendar, not dependent on connection.
> 
> I'd be very interested to know if Android does this... If you can see your google
> Calendar when not connected... I assume yes?



Fuck, your easy to please.  I turned on my mail on my iPhone an went *arggg* and promptly turned it off, that one really annoying moment caused me to get a 500%+ hit on spam.  The email and SMS client are less than primitive. Apple should be more than a little red faced on their functionality.  Still its only been out there for a year and a half and they have done precious little to their apps.  I can only assume they have a 2.5 or v3 being worked on to improve it because it needs it.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2008)

nick h. said:


> I love the hardware - can't understand all the moaning. The finish is lovely and the swing-screen thingy is nice and solid. It's got a subtle Braun-calculator stylee - most delicious. Glad I didn't get a white one. My only gripe is that the touch screen was operated by my ear when I was punching in numbers on an automated switchboard thingy.


Feel my envy! 

I thought it was a really well built phone too - it felt well solid and the screen is superb.

Did you get your deal an an upgrade or as a new customer?


----------



## nick h. (Nov 15, 2008)

New customer. I was Orange PAYG. 

T-Mob offer up to £80 for your old handset (for reuse in developing countries), so not only do you get a free Android, you could get your usage free for the first 2 months! Not sure whether I'll get any dosh though, as my SPV is very old and probably borked. 

You can have a play with it next week if you like - I'm usually in the Ritzy cafe in the afternoons.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 15, 2008)

Well, mine arrived this morning and I've already fallen in love it it 

I'll try and do a full review tomorrow when I've had a chance to play with it some more, but first impressions are overwhelmingly positive


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'll try and do a full review tomorrow when I've had a chance to play with it some more, but first impressions are overwhelmingly positive


It's a lovely bit of kit, isn't it? 

nick h. - I'll drop  you a PM if I'm going for a coffee in the week. Thanks for the offer.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 15, 2008)

editor said:


> It's a lovely bit of kit, isn't it?



It's not perfect - no document editing out the box is a _major_ omission in my view, but what's there works well (so far  )


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's not perfect - no document editing out the box is a _major_ omission in my view, but what's there works well.


But you know all that kind of stuff is on its way....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 15, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's not perfect - no document editing out the box is a _major_ omission in my view, but what's there works well (so far  )



How have you found transferring your contacts?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 15, 2008)

editor said:


> But you know all that kind of stuff is on its way....


Yep.  I've installed a basic notepad app from the Android Market which will do for now.  The browser is good enough that using GoogleApps online is fairly usable as well, but I'd hope that offline editing will be on the way soon.




Kid_Eternity said:


> How have you found transferring your contacts?


I didn't do a thing, other than enter my google account name and password when I first turned it on.  From that point on, everything just works, it's amazing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 15, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep.  I've installed a basic notepad app from the Android Market which will do for now.  The browser is good enough that using GoogleApps online is fairly usable as well, but I'd hope that offline editing will be on the way soon.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't do a thing, other than enter my google account name and password when I first turned it on.  From that point on, everything just works, it's amazing.



Did you not have to import them from your Outlook etc first into Gmail?


----------



## SK. (Nov 15, 2008)

You can import from outlook if you want but I had all my contacts already in gmail and as said once you enter your account details it just automatically syncs them to the handset


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 15, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Did you not have to import them from your Outlook etc first into Gmail?



I've been using Gmail for everything for a while now, so didn't have the need.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 15, 2008)

SK. said:


> You can import from outlook if you want but I had all my contacts already in gmail and as said once you enter your account details it just automatically syncs them to the handset



This is what I was driving at, I did this as a test a few weeks back and Gmail didn't import my contacts properly. In fact they royally fucked up with them, splitting contacts up, listing mobile numbers with no names or people with multiple numbers suddenly had three or more entries etc (not too mention all my contact groupings weren't recognised and email addresses didn't seem to show up). It was a real mess and a big reason I lost enthusiasm for the G1...



beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've been using Gmail for everything for a while now, so didn't have the need.



Ah right...


----------



## SK. (Nov 15, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've been using Gmail for everything for a while now, so didn't have the need.



Same for me, Must be at least two years if not more since I have used Outlook or in fact any desktop client to manage my email and all the associated gubbins that goes with it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 16, 2008)

My thoughts so far, after 24 hours of pretty much constant playing with it 


The handset:


The handset looks a lot better irl that it does in pics.
The "chin", while looking a bit odd, fits my hand perfectly, making it lovely to hold when making calls.  Your hand my be different of course.
It's not exactly small, if you want a phone to slip into your pocket then it isn't for you.
I'm not 100% convinced by the way the screen opens - it looks very funky, but surely a simply slide mechanism would be sturdier?  Time will tell I guess.
The screen is fantastic - bright, clear and crisp.  Easily as good as the iphone.
I've had the odd bit of trouble with the touchscreen, with it not detecting that I'd pressed it.  However, I think this might be a problem with my fingers eek, as I get this on digital mixing desks with touch sensitive faders from time to time.
Battery life doesn't look too promising, it ran out about 3/4 of the way through the first day, although I had been caning it quite a lot.  Again, time will tell.
The camera is pretty rubbish tbh.  Very slow (up to a second of lag), no flash, no settings to adjust.  The best I can say about it is that the OS does make it very easy to email/txt anything you manage to get a pic of.
The GPS works quickly, each time I've tried (using googlemaps) it's got a fix on me in about 2 seconds flat.


The OS:

Quite simply, it's brilliant.  Incredibly easy to pick up - the manual comes on a CD, and it's still in the box.  It really isn't needed for anything.
Unsurprisingly the googleapps integration works flawlessly.  You enter your ID the first time you turn it on, and from that point on everything just works - email, calendar and contacts are all there.  A change on my PC appears on my phone within 10 seconds, with no need for any sort manual synch.
The notification system is great - anything arriving (be it a txt, email or chat conversation) appears in a swipe down list at the top, which you can then tap to jump into the relevant application.
There are some obvious omissions form the included software - no notepad app, no document editing for starters.  I got a notepad app from the android market, and using googledocs isn't that bad because the browser is fantastic (see next point) but these really should have been included from the start imo.
The web browser is great - pages render quickly, and navigating round them is easy, using either the trackball of dragging/zooming with your finger. The text is nice and crisp, making pages easy to view even at quite small zoom levels.
I've already installed several apps from the market, again this works flawlessly.  Simply select the app you want, then it downloads and installs in the background without any further input needed.   


Overall I've found it utterly fantastic so far.  The handset, while not perfect, is nothing like as bad as certain websites have made out, and the OS is pretty much perfect.  The whole package is very slick, and I'm sure that any gaps in the included software will be filled very quickly indeed.  

As far as I can see, if you use Googlemail as your primary mail application, and you're looking for a new phone, then going with a G1/Android is a no brainer.


----------



## aqua (Nov 16, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My thoughts so far, after 24 hours of pretty much constant playing with it


I can vouch for this


----------



## nick h. (Nov 16, 2008)

I would go so far as to say that even if you're wedded to Hotmail or Outlook or whatever else, it's a no-brainer to migrate to the Google Cloud/Android ensemble. It really is life-changing stuff.  I've got my contacts, diary and docs scattered across Google, Hotmail, local MS Word and an old phone running Windows Mobile, syncd with a laptop. And I've got three hosted photo storage accounts, plus some Yahoo Groups, Google groups etc....and news feeds....and God knows what else. Aren't we all like that? Well, it can all go under one roof from now on.  So I'll have everything with me everywhere, and I'll be perfectly positioned for the day when we no longer need to have any local storage and every public device can be instantly customised with our own desktop. The future is here!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 16, 2008)

nick h. said:


> I would go so far as to say that even if you're wedded to Hotmail or Outlook or whatever else, it's a no-brainer to migrate to the Google Cloud/Android ensemble. It really is life-changing stuff.  I've got my contacts, diary and docs scattered across Google, Hotmail, local MS Word and an old phone running Windows Mobile, syncd with a laptop. And I've got three hosted photo storage accounts, plus some Yahoo Groups, Google groups etc....and news feeds....and God knows what else. Aren't we all like that? Well, it can all go under one roof from now on.  So I'll have everything with me everywhere, and I'll be perfectly positioned for the day when we no longer need to have any local storage and every public device can be instantly customised with our own desktop. The future is here!



But as I said above, I did try and sort my contacts and Gmail made a right mess of it. It was a right turn off because I really don't see why I should have to spend time fucking about clearing up the mess they made when every other phone I've had manages data transfer perfectly well...


----------



## nick h. (Nov 16, 2008)

Well at least it's free! I'm sure others have reported the same problem and it will be fixed. Maybe it already has been? Even if Google doesn't fix it you can bet that some clever clogs will spot a gap in the market and produce some fancy freeware in the blink of an eye. 

And let's not overlook the absence of dosh required. When you think of all the money we've spent on Windows, Office etc over the years it's pretty bloody amazing that we don't have to pay a sausage for the Google Cloud. Yes, there are ads, but they're not intrusive. Just go to any US newspaper or TV channel site to see what a pain in the arse ads can be. 

We've never had it so good!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 16, 2008)

nick h. said:


> Well at least it's free! I'm sure others have reported the same problem and it will be fixed. Maybe it already has been? Even if Google doesn't fix it you can bet that some clever clogs will spot a gap in the market and produce some fancy freeware in the blink of an eye.
> 
> And let's not overlook the absence of dosh required. When you think of all the money we've spent on Windows, Office etc over the years it's pretty bloody amazing that we don't have to pay a sausage for the Google Cloud. Yes, there are ads, but they're not intrusive. Just go to any US newspaper or TV channel site to see what a pain in the arse ads can be.
> 
> We've never had it so good!



Um, seriously have they paid you to say all this?


----------



## nick h. (Nov 16, 2008)

No, I'm a very cynical health journalist. But I've been knocking around the PC end of the IT industry since the IBM PC was launched. So I don't take any of this stuff for granted. It's just gobsmacking.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 16, 2008)

Oh, about the keyboard....


Does the "chin" get in the way?  Well, it did, until I realised I was just trying to hold it like I did my old Vario II.  The moment I changed my grip the problem disappeared. 


There is one _major_ problem with it though - the backlight.  On my white one the keys are also white, and the backlight is, errr, white.  This means that when the light comes on (which is every time you use it, as there is no light level meter that I can see) the labels sometimes practically disappear. In full daylight you can still see them fine, and in the dark its fine as well, but in half light (eg. most indoor lighting levels) it's a royal pain in the arse.


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There is one _major_ problem with it though - the backlight.  On my white one the keys are also white, and the backlight is, errr, white.  This means that when the light comes on (which is every time you use it, as there is no light level meter that I can see) they labels sometimes practically disappear. In full daylight you can still see them fine, and in the dark its fine as well, but in half light (eg. most indoor lighting levels) it's a royal pain in the arse.


There's a big thread about it here: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/...ng-to-black-due-to-keyboard-light-issue-5189/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 16, 2008)

editor said:


> There's a big thread about it here: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/...ng-to-black-due-to-keyboard-light-issue-5189/



It is quite an odd problem - in daylight it isn't an issue, as the sunlight on the keys is obviously far brighter than the backlight, and a well lit room isn't a problem either. In the dark all you can see is the light coming through, so no worries there.

It's in conditions somewhere between the two (dimly lit rooms, shady areas outside) that it happens - if you are looking at the keyboard straight on everything is almost impossible to see, if you tip the phone at a slight angle things improve a bit.

It's _very_ annoying, and is my number 1 issue with the phone so far.  

The black one doesn't have this problem apparently.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 16, 2008)

Another issue I've just found - as far as I can tell there is no way of sending a persons contact details to another phone (eg using a VCard) and if someone sends you one you get a blank message and nothing else.

Not exactly major, but annoying all the same.


----------



## SK. (Nov 16, 2008)

The black one is fine (the colour I have) but I have also seen others with white mention this.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 16, 2008)

nick h. said:


> Well at least it's free! I'm sure others have reported the same problem and it will be fixed. Maybe it already has been? Even if Google doesn't fix it you can bet that some clever clogs will spot a gap in the market and produce some fancy freeware in the blink of an eye.
> 
> And let's not overlook the absence of dosh required. When you think of all the money we've spent on Windows, Office etc over the years it's pretty bloody amazing that we don't have to pay a sausage for the Google Cloud. Yes, there are ads, but they're not intrusive. Just go to any US newspaper or TV channel site to see what a pain in the arse ads can be.
> 
> We've never had it so good!



Are you saying there are ads on the phone?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 16, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Are you saying there are ads on the phone?



No ads on the phone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

Cut 'n' Paste - either I'm doing it wrong (this is quite possible ) or the implementation of it isn't quite as slick as Google make out.  I've just tried to copy some text from an email into a contact and failed.

Hmmmmm...


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Video here with spoddy bloke: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ofQqhJ_fa2M
Chat here: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f41/how-to-copy-paste-4579/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

It seems you can only copy from certain areas, and a txt isn't one of them, which is a bit of a fucker tbh.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Well, hang in there, as it'll almost certainly get fixed sooner or later!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 17, 2008)

Does copy work from Gmail? 

From what I've seen, it would seem that you can only copy from text entry fields?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> Does copy work from Gmail?
> 
> From what I've seen, it would seem that you can only copy from text entry fields?


That seems to be the case.

I hope this is fixed as a priority....



Edit - Not just txt fields, I've just done it from a webpage with no problems at all, so I think this is a bug, rather than a missing feature...


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Looks like Flash support is coming to the G1 very soon...
http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/17/finally-proper-banner-ads-for-android-flash-demoed-on-a-g1/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

editor said:


> Looks like Flash support is coming to the G1 very soon...
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/17/finally-proper-banner-ads-for-android-flash-demoed-on-a-g1/





> Ads for life insurance just aren't the same without an animated dancing dude or flying pig, so we're delighted to hear that some balance is going to be restored to the world



  


Good to hear, but I still think the two biggest things that need fixing asap are the lack of document editing and the limited cut and paste.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 17, 2008)

Certainly a world 1st if its proper flash. I'm interested in how the battery holds up with that running.  The CPU must be great if its running full flash. 

Problem with flash is that its a constantly updating dynamic resource which costs lots of CPU cycles and each one of those costs power.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Certainly a world 1st if its proper flash. I'm interested in how the battery holds up with that running.  The CPU must be great if its running full flash.


My Sony Clie Palm PDA of six years ago supported Flash up to version 5 and worked well.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 17, 2008)

things are a bit different now though


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I'm interested in how the battery holds up with that running.



Speaking of battery, I've had it running since around 7am this morning, with wifi turned on, gps off, lots of emailing and a few calls, and the meter is currently showing 30%.

So it looks like I'll get a day out of it with average use, but nothing more.


----------



## nick h. (Nov 17, 2008)

I want to use GPS apps as much as possible so I've just ordered a pair of batteries for less than a tenner. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=300271486619

Hard to believe they'll work at that price, but worth a punt.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Crispy said:


> things are a bit different now though


Of course they are, but seeing as Sony went on to make an excellent small PDA with Wireless LAN, Bluetooth, infrared, USB, Flash support, 480 x 320 pixels touchscreen, camera, decent browser, memory card slot, 16 hours battery life for continuous playback of music (five hours for video) _over five years ago_, it does make you wonder what they might have come up if they'd stuck with the Clie range.







*sigh


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2008)

Didn't that thing cost like a grand at the time?


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Didn't that thing cost like a grand at the time?


Don't be daft. It was around £350.

Meanwhile, early reports say that G1 sales have been disappointing. 

Now let me think. Why might that possibly be? Could it possibly be anything to do with the idiotic fuckwits at T Mobile?!  

http://www.whatmobile.net/News/generalnews/147785/google_phone_sales_disappoint.html

Still, that can only drive prices down. Win!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 17, 2008)

Hopefully it won't put other handset manufacturers off.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2008)

editor said:


> Don't be daft. It was around £350.
> 
> Meanwhile, early reports say that G1 sales have been disappointing.
> 
> ...



I'm sure it was more, perhaps I'm remembering the dollar price but I remember it being very expensive for what it did...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2008)

> One Carphone Warehouse staff member told Mobile News, "It hasn’t sold well at all, and I don’t think it will. It’s a good phone, but people don’t seem to want it. *It’s too bulky in comparison to the iPhone,* but does much the same”.



I bet that's a big factor, maybe as big as the T Mobile idiocy...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

editor said:


> the idiotic fuckwits at T Mobile



I dunno, what with the G1 for free and a reduction in my monthly bill for the same number of minutes/txts/data, I reckon they're pretty good


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2008)

Have they sorted the save to SD card thing yet?


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

Looks like Exchange has been sorted. For a price ($29.95 per user per year).



> Cemaphore has released MailShadowG, which allows users of the T-Mobile G1 to synchronize their email, contacts, and calendars with a Microsoft Exchange server. This is a highly-requested feature from those who would like to use this smartphone for business.
> 
> 
> The G1, which runs Google's Android OS, is strongly tied to Google's online services. This device keeps its owner's personal information synchronized with the appropriate Google service, but this doesn't help the millions of people who depend on Exchange for business-related messages and scheduling. That's where something like MailShadowG steps in.
> ...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have they sorted the save to SD card thing yet?



I take it you mean the storage of applications to the card, rather than the built in memory?  I read somewhere  (can't remember where, sorry) that's being sorted in the next OS update.


----------



## Iam (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Looks like Exchange has been sorted. For a price ($29.95 per user per year).



So you have to use Outlook? Quality. Not.


----------



## nick h. (Nov 18, 2008)

I tried repeatedly to export contacts from Outlook to Gmail last night - miserable failure - lots of my contacts arrive with just a phone number and no name -aaaargghh.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 18, 2008)

Iam said:


> So you have to use Outlook? Quality. Not.



And have Outlook on... how backwards is that?!

Is there a licensing reason for the lack of ActiveSync or has someone just not come up with it yet?

No activesync, no purchase from me.


----------



## g force (Nov 18, 2008)

I didn't mind the look and feel of the G1 when I looked in person...yeah it lacks a certain 'something' but TBH the biggest drawback was it was on T Mobile, which in my experience has been the worst network for calls. I use to get 1 bar of coverage in my flat and none at my parents.


----------



## Iam (Nov 18, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> And have Outlook on... how backwards is that?!
> 
> Is there a licensing reason for the lack of ActiveSync or has someone just not come up with it yet?
> 
> No activesync, no purchase from me.



Right, it'd be a deal breaker for me (were I in the market).

I mean, I have a computer with Outlook... here on my desk. So not much use for a _mobile_ to sync with, sort of misses the point uttely, really...


----------



## Sunray (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Don't be daft. It was around £350.
> 
> Meanwhile, early reports say that G1 sales have been disappointing.
> 
> ...



I thought that 40 a month was expensive, even if the phone was free.

I wonder if they will change their tactics.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

nick h. said:


> I tried repeatedly to export contacts from Outlook to Gmail last night - miserable failure - lots of my contacts arrive with just a phone number and no name -aaaargghh.



Yep, been there, done that.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I thought that 40 a month was expensive, even if the phone was free.
> 
> I wonder if they will change their tactics.


I'm certainly not going near them at £40/month for 18 months, with or without the ludicrous £305 phone cost.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> I'm certainly not going near them at £40/month for 18 months, with or without the ludicrous £305 phone cost.



*feels smug*


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> *feels smug*


*goes off to cut, copy and paste wildly on his Centro*


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> *goes off to cut, copy and paste wildly on his Centro*



*goes shopping scanning barcodes to get the best price for stuff, whilst using the phone as a compass to guide the way, then orders a cab home based on his current location*





*then swears at the sodding backlight making the keys harder, not easier, to read*


----------



## Iam (Nov 18, 2008)

*uses exchange sync _without_ Outlook on 2 different handsets*


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

Iam said:


> *uses exchange sync _without_ Outlook on 2 different handsets*


*installs vast amounts of software from a vast amount of sources*


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

Iam said:


> *uses exchange sync _without_ Outlook on 2 different handsets*



*hasn't used poxy exchange in years*


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> *hasn't used poxy exchange in years*


*What's Exchange?*


----------



## Crispy (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> *What's Exchange?*


Microsoft's email, calendar etc server product. What outlook connects to. What a properly outlook-compatiible phone should connect to.


----------



## Iam (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> *hasn't used poxy exchange in years*



Good job, really, unless you were going to cart your desktop around with you...


----------



## Iam (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> *What's Exchange?*



It's the world's most common email system. I'm suprised a leading techjourno doesn't know that, quite frankly...

Pretty useful (and very, very common) for people who use work email and want to do so on the move.

Most phones seem to be able to handle it natively. Most...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

Erm, I think the Ed was joking. There's no way he couldn't actually know what Exchange is!


----------



## Iam (Nov 18, 2008)

Wow, really? 

Thanks for clearing that one up...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

Iam said:


> Wow, really?
> 
> Thanks for clearing that one up...



Your welcome.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

Iam said:


> It's the world's most common email system. I'm suprised a leading techjourno doesn't know that, quite frankly...


Delighted though I am with the accolade of being declared "a leading tech journo," I was joshing ya' and know exactly what Exchange is.

Thing is, being freelance, I've never had call to use it.


----------



## Iam (Nov 18, 2008)

*jealous*


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 18, 2008)

I rate Exchange. It does what it's gotta do relatively stress free!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 18, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> I rate Exchange. It does what it's gotta do relatively stress free!



Is it because it's nice looking and makes you feel normal about your weird gaming views?


----------



## nick h. (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> I'm certainly not going near them at £40/month for 18 months, with or without the ludicrous £305 phone cost.



bbbbbbut....isn't £40 per month with a free £500 handset pretty good for the number of minutes you get? Anyway, T-Mob offer the G1 with a cheapo tariff of £15 per month if you pay £99 for the handset. That's what they offered me in the shop anyway. 

And what's to stop you buying a handset only and a special unlocking SIM card off ebay? http://www.vavolo.com/productdetails.asp,mode,1,ProductID,4828,,.htm

I don't know why everyone's looking for negatives with the G1 the whole time. Ed, you should know better!

Ah, it's getting dark. Soon I shall be able to use Sky Map to navigate across the wilds of Brockwell Park by the stars....


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

nick h. said:


> bbbbbbut....isn't £40 per month with a free £500 handset pretty good for the number of minutes you get?


I was ONLY being offered £40 month for a lengthy 18 month contract. 

That's bad enough, but on top of that my 10 year loyalty with T Mobile was being rewarded with an additional, supplemental *£305* charge for the handset.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

nick h. said:


> Ah, it's getting dark. Soon I shall be able to use Sky Map to navigate across the wilds of Brockwell Park by the stars....



Have you downloaded "orienteer" yet?  It turns your phone into a compass


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 18, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is it because it's nice looking and makes you feel normal about your weird gaming views?



Nope, 'cos you can set it up in an hour then leave it for about 3 months (compactions required) without having to give it a second thought.


----------



## Iam (Nov 18, 2008)

Exchange is fine if it's setup right in the first place. That doesn't mean I actually _like_ it, but for a hassle-free mailserver, nothing comes remotely close...


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

Blimey. The G1's camera seems pretty damn good:







http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickc_321/sets/72157609359728904/


----------



## nick h. (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> I was ONLY being offered £40 month for a lengthy 18 month contract.
> 
> That's bad enough, but on top of that my 10 year loyalty with T Mobile was being rewarded with an additional, supplemental *£305* charge for the handset.



That's a disgrace. They deserve to be stitched up. Ring the press office and demand blood. I bet they're breaching some EU regulation by not offering you the same deal they offer to customers of other networks.

According to this the G1 only costs £92 to build. http://tech.uk.msn.com/news/article.aspx?cp-documentid=10872157 Why not get an unlocked one on ebay? Maybe you can get it cheap with this cashback thingy: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-HTC...14&_trkparms=72:1301|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Blimey. The G1's camera seems pretty damn good



Nah, it's rubbish.  You've got no flash, and no exposure/white balance settings to adjust at all, so unless you've got perfect light the images tend to come out dark or with an odd colour cast.  Oh, and the shutter lag is _horrendous_ (like up to a couple of seconds horrendous )


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Nah, it's rubbish.  You've got no flash, and no exposure/white balance settings to adjust at all, so unless you've got perfect light the images tend to come out dark or with an odd colour cast.  Oh, and the shutter lag is _horrendous_ (like up to a couple of seconds horrendous )


Really? That guy's pics look pretty good to me (but then I don't expect a lot from a cameraphone and have been happy with the Centro's umble 1.3MP snapper).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Really? That guy's pics look pretty good to m



If there's a lot of light (which looking at the floodlights in those pics there was) then it's OK (providing you're subject stays put long enough to deal with the godawful lag), but the moment the light levels drop it all goes pear shaped.

I'll try and stick a few shots from mine up at some point to show you...


----------



## WWWeed (Nov 19, 2008)

oh it looks like the android command bug as been fixed! 

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=680

which is a shame because I was looking forward to sending a message with 'rm *' to someones phone!


----------



## paolo (Nov 19, 2008)

As bugs go that was pretty good - command line access! I'm sure that would have some 'unauthorised' uses.


----------



## nick h. (Nov 19, 2008)

Can anyone recommend a photo-hosting site for G1 users? I tried to use Photobucket today but after five minutes I gave up trying to load my page.


----------



## SK. (Nov 20, 2008)

Picasa? There are a couple of applications in the market that will upload to picasa for you and you can hotlink from there?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 20, 2008)

*The G1 camera*

Right, I've been for a wander around today...

http://picasaweb.google.com/mittonaudio/TestingMyG1AroundErdington






...and I've come to the conclusion that the hardware of the camera is actually pretty good, it's the software controlling it that's shite.  If the light and contrast levels are good you can get pretty decent images, but the lack of any adjustment (in other words, something that can be sorted by a software update) means that a lot of the time pics will come out rather less than perfect.

So, another thing to add to the list of "please sort out", but not one that I imagine will be a priority for the developers at this time...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh, and the "Pictorial" software (available from the Android Market) for uploading to/organising a Picasa account is as close to a perfect piece of mobile software as I've ever seen


----------



## Kanda (Nov 20, 2008)

editor said:


> I was ONLY being offered £40 month for a lengthy 18 month contract.
> 
> That's bad enough, but on top of that my 10 year loyalty with T Mobile was being rewarded with an additional, supplemental *£305* charge for the handset.


 

Did you give them a bad review as a leading tech journo??


----------



## Kanda (Nov 20, 2008)

editor said:


> (but then I don't expect a lot from a cameraphone and have been happy with the Centro's umble 1.3MP snapper).


 
I'll bear that in mind for next time you mention the iPhone camera


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 20, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I'll bear that in mind for next time you mention the iPhone camera



<settles down with a big carton of popcorn>


----------



## Kanda (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm just joshing, am off to cook me dinner


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I'll bear that in mind for next time you mention the iPhone camera


I don't think I've particularly mentioned the iPhone's camera past it being a bit average compared to a lot of other new smartphones. It's not just about the megapixels when it comes to digicams - particularly the ones on phones - because I've seen some awful 'high resolution' images and some cameras are unsuable slow.

The Centro's isn't too bad - it's fairly nippy and as good as some 2MP jobs I've seen, but it would be nice to have 3MP+.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 21, 2008)

Some more pics from the G1, it really seems to be a nice camera crippled by shit software...












http://picasaweb.google.com/mittonaudio/BirminghamChristmasMarket2008


----------



## editor (Nov 23, 2008)

Sweet: multi touch will work on the G1:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/22/g1-multi-touch-a-reality-integrated-headphone-jack-still-just-a/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Sweet: multi touch will work on the G1:
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/22/g1-multi-touch-a-reality-integrated-headphone-jack-still-just-a/



Sweet 

Every day that passes since I got my G1 I'm more convinced that I made the right choice - I was fully prepared to accept that I'd gone with a bit of a lemon (it was free, so I had nothing to lose) but it's not, it's fantastic.  

It's the best gadget I've ever owned, simple as that.


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2008)

Opera Mini browser has just hit beta for Android
http://www.download.com/8301-2007_4-10106881-12.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20


----------



## Sunray (Nov 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Sweet: multi touch will work on the G1:
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/22/g1-multi-touch-a-reality-integrated-headphone-jack-still-just-a/



Fail.  Looks far too unresponsive to be useful (how ever he polls the screen).  Thats not the main problem.  Until multi-touch is part of the UI and the OS all applications will have to use non-standard libraries for gesture support and someone will have to write them, then they get re-written because the 1st were shit etc.  Could end up with multiple ways of doing the same thing for different applications.  Super fail.

I did read that Google are going to add it, Android v2 perhaps.  I was slightly surprised it wasn't in there from the start.


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Fail.  Looks far too unresponsive to be useful (how ever he polls the screen).


Err, he  does explain that it's a very early beta designed to for show off that multitouch is possible.

My Palm phone is stuffed full of 'non standard libraries.' I think I can handle a few interfaces that aren't exactly the same as the rest.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Err, he  does explain that it's a very early beta designed to for show off that multitouch is possible.
> 
> My Palm phone is stuffed full of 'non standard libraries.' I think I can handle a few interfaces that aren't exactly the same as the rest.



Doesn't defeat the entire point of a good user interface?  Do you want something that can be used in a consistent manner or everyone doing what ever they like.

I think I mentioned many pages back that one of the issues that Google have and Apple don't, is that they don't control the hardware that it goes onto.  The inclusion of multi-touch would push up the minimum handset costs putting off potential manufacturers.


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Doesn't defeat the entire point of a good user interface?  Do you want something that can be used in a consistent manner or everyone doing what ever they like.


I think most people would have no problem working around interfaces showing some variation from the norm, especially if it allows more innovation and/or functionality. GoogleMaps is like nothing else on my Palm but I'm glad it's there.

It's not like all the programs on your PC/Mac share exactly the same interface, is it? Or websites, come to think of it.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 25, 2008)

Unlike windows there is no on screen clues, so your going to have to be training people for every application.  It all takes time and effort.  Thats why we have Operating systems.

Multi touch, while an omission, its not a biggie for the Android platform, the flick physics scrolling isn't patented by Apple so it seems, even though they invented it.  They do however own a few with regards to multi-touch screens and gesture support on mobile devices so it probably wise to avoid it for the time being.   Flick scrolling is the big feature on the iPhone, its the 1st proper alternative to the scrolling wheel that all the iPod competitors failed to invent in 8 years of trying.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 25, 2008)

Utterly non scientific user test part 4376:

Me and a work colleague spent an hour or so last night comparing his iPhone to my G1, looking at pretty much everything (we were bored waiting for an electrician to give us some power ).

We tested how quickly email arrived, how fast the calender synced to the desktop/cloud, ease of use, features, everything that struck us as "everyday use" issues.

Overall conclusion?

He's seriously considering getting rid and buying a G1


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Unlike windows there is no on screen clues, so your going to have to be training people for every application.  It all takes time and effort.


You're exaggerating. People aren't stupid. It's not hard to work out how most decently written programs work, even if their interface is slightly different to the rest.


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2008)

Looks like it's selling better than expected with Strategy Analytics reporting that the G1 will account for 4 percent of all smartphones sold in the United States during the fourth quarter of 2008.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 25, 2008)

editor said:


> You're exaggerating. People aren't stupid. It's not hard to work out how most decently written programs work, even if their interface is slightly different to the rest.




I'm glad your not in charge of the UI team, 

'its OK they'll figure it out'


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I'm glad your not in charge of the UI team,
> 
> 'its OK they'll figure it out'


I'm glad you're not in charge of my computer (or my phone) as there'd only be about 4 third party programs that would pass your 'identical UI' test!

I don't know how you manage on the web either, what with all these websites having totally different menus and interfaces.


----------



## nick h. (Nov 25, 2008)

*Genuine HTC batteries for £5.65*

Got some cheapo batteries off ebay.  Maybe I'm a bit behind the times, but at £5.65 each inc. postage from Hong Kong I was expecting them to be inferior - but they're HTC-branded, identical to the one you get with the phone. So now I can walk around with the GPS and wi-fi on all day without worrying. 

The seller is joeweiderx.


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2008)

Ooh, I like the sound of this - and what an amazing use of the compass/GPS!



> I just got my new Android G1 phone almost a week ago and am really enjoying it. There are so many interesting applications being written for the platform. Each day it's like a treasure hunt finding out what new apps are in the market. There is one application that gets rave reviews from everyone I show it to. It's called Sky Map and it helps to identify what stars, planets or constellations you are seeing in the night sky.
> 
> It operates by holding at arms length up to the sky with the screen facing you. Just by moving left, right, up or down it will track the stars and show you what celestial body you're viewing. It's a ton of fun and I can't wait until I'm somewhere away from the city lights and can get a good view of the sky.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 26, 2008)

Oooooh, that sounds like fun 

The rate apps are appearing in the market is astonishing....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 26, 2008)

editor said:


> Ooh, I like the sound of this - and what an amazing use of the compass/GPS!



Heh 'fun' apps are fun but really how many people are going to do this more than once. Anyone who takes a serious interest in constellations will have an idea of them anyway (I was into Astronomy as a kid and can still id five or six with ease...)...


----------



## nick h. (Nov 26, 2008)

Depends where you live. Next time I'm trying to find my way back from a country pub at night I'll definitely use it. It could even be the birth of a new sport - orienteering by starlight.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 26, 2008)

If it hooks into google space then thats pretty cool.  

Bit shit in this country unfortunately, worst light polluted country in the world even when its not cloudy.   I never realised how bad until I went somewhere with very little light pollution and big skies.  The stars are a magnificent display every evening for free if you can see them.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 26, 2008)

T Mobile are doing some semi decent deals on the G1, kinda tempted!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> If it hooks into google space then thats pretty cool.
> 
> Bit shit in this country unfortunately, worst light polluted country in the world even when its not cloudy.   I never realised how bad until I went somewhere with very little light pollution and big skies.  The stars are a magnificent display every evening for free if you can see them.



I can. They were ace tonight 

One advantage to living in the middle of nowhere, even if you do get a shit net connection and no 3G.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 27, 2008)

Here's a nice example


----------



## cliche guevara (Nov 27, 2008)

After reading a lot of positive reviews of the G1 and noticing that T-mobile are offering a pretty decent package for £30 a month, I'm prety confident that I'm gonna be looking at this for my next phone. One thing that does frustrate me slightly is the idea of having to pop the keyboard out every time I text. Has anyone developed a touch screen keyboard yet? Is such a thing possible? It'd be a clincher for me I think.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned in the thread, there's a lot of it to trawl through.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 27, 2008)

Yep T Mobile are doing a decent deal right now, free G1, free 8gig card, 30 quid a month for 400 mins/700 texts on a 18 month contract. Not sure the phone will actually last that long but it is tempting...

Not sure if there is a touch screen keyboard yet but to use the usual answer 'I'm sure someone will make one one day'...


----------



## nick h. (Nov 27, 2008)

Google is your friend: http://www.intomobile.com/2008/10/24/virtual-touchscreen-keyboard-coming-to-android-os.html


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 4, 2008)

Seems that even if you turn off all your roaming options, the G1 still goes online and racks up some data charges for you.
http://androidcentral.com/g1-data-connected-big-roaming/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 4, 2008)

That's a bit crap. I read about some guy that ended up with an extra 100 dollars on his bill due to this...

Anyway, when is someone going to release a Android phone that looks this nice!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 4, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> Seems that even if you turn off all your roaming options, the G1 still goes online and racks up some data charges for you.
> http://androidcentral.com/g1-data-connected-big-roaming/



Much  if that's true...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 4, 2008)

Next Android phones looks like being the Kogan Agora and Agora Pro in January

http://www.kogan.com.au/shop/category/mobile-phones/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 4, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Much  if that's true...



You got a G1 right? Tell, can you access or add things to your calendar without reception/a net connection?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 4, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You got a G1 right? Tell, can you access or add things to your calendar without reception/a net connection?



No idea


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 4, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> Next Android phones looks like being the *Kogan* Agora and Agora Pro



Who?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 4, 2008)

Australian company who get their stuff made in China.

No, I'd never heard of them either.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 5, 2008)

http://www.smh.com.au/news/digital-...-launch-delayed/2008/12/03/1228257127166.html






That looks a bit blackberry to me , but its still a nice looking phone for people that absolutely must have a keyboard.

I'm done with buttons.


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2008)

Google has announced the Android Dev Phone 1, a SIM-and hardware-unlocked G1 designed to be sold exclusively to developers, but yours for $399.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/05/sim-hardware-unlocked-android-dev-phone-1-surfaces-for-399/


----------



## Sunray (Dec 8, 2008)

editor said:


> The Android deal just keeps on getting better. The 1GB cap has been removed!
> 
> Lovely.
> 
> ...



I've been listening to their pod casts and the main waffler is a rabid Palm fan boy.


----------



## nick h. (Dec 8, 2008)

Has the 1GB cap really been removed? I can't find Editor's original post where he mentions it.

My next question is: how do I use my G1 as a modem for my laptop?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 8, 2008)

http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f41/share-your-g1-connection-over-usb-6166/


----------



## nick h. (Dec 8, 2008)

Hmmm. Must try it and see how fast it is with 3G! Then get torrenting and see what T-Mobile have to say


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I've been listening to their pod casts and the main waffler is a rabid Palm fan boy.


Do a search on Engadget and see how many times 'Apple' comes up. They're well known for being horrendously enthusiastic Apple fan boys. Posters there are complaining about it all the time because their endless iPlugs are grating.


----------



## robotsimon (Dec 8, 2008)

Yesterday's Observer had an article suggesting Google might bid for the UHF network when it comes up for sale:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/dec/07/uhf-network-television-switchover-digital


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2008)

Saw the G1 in wild for the first time this evening, guy had one on tube (doesnt go well with a pink carrier bag I thought)...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 8, 2008)

editor said:


> Do a search on Engadget and see how many times 'Apple' comes up. They're well known for being horrendously enthusiastic Apple fan boys. Posters there are complaining about it all the time because their endless iPlugs are grating.



I suggest you listen to the mobile phone pod cast the one the week before thanks giving.  If you can get past their very irritating style you'll get what no search will give you.

They do like Apple but *there is ton of difference*  between liking Apple products and liking them in some sort of blind mantra.   He will mention Palm a lot more than he ever does the iPhone and is now starting to use the G1 instead of the Apple.

What they say in there really caught my attention because while its  rambling and over long, they do nail a serious point.  You cannot really have a conversation about smart phones now without mentioning the iPhone.    In 18 or so months, Apple have truly changed the landscape of the 'smart' phone and nobody apart from Android has even come close to challenging their 'consumer' smart phone.  I liked their point that you are forced into being a 'consumer' with the iPhone as it does 'consumer' things in 'consumer' way and nothing more.


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2008)

Sunray said:


> They do like Apple but *there is ton of difference*  between liking Apple products and liking them in some sort of blind mantra.   He will mention Palm a lot more than he ever does the iPhone and is now starting to use the G1 instead of the Apple.


I'm not interested in their podcasts, but like I said before, Engadget's website is notoriously - nay, _comically_ -  fanboyed to the max for Apple products.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2008)

Take it to the iPhone thread ffs!


----------



## cliche guevara (Dec 8, 2008)

Want G1 NOW, went and had another play at the weekend and it definitely ticks all the boxes for me. I don't even think I'm bothered about the lack of virtual keyboard anymore, I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later. Only problem is i have four months left to run on my current contract, any easy ways out?


----------



## g force (Dec 9, 2008)

I had a play with one of these at the weekend - Kogan Agora Pro - high-end Android-based phone. Have to say I was mightily impressed with the features and the quality of finish (although I guess it will be at a premium price). The real let down was the keyboard...it didn't work for me testing out writing a short email. Text messaging was fine but the bloody return key was sticking and the guy who was trialing it claimed it had done so since day one!


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2008)

Android keeps on growing:


> The Open Handset Alliance just made a major score with 14 more members: AKM Semiconductor Inc., ARM, ASUSTek Computer Inc. (previously rumored), Atheros Communications, Borqs, Ericsson, Garmin International Inc., Huawei Technologies, Omron Software Co. Ltd, Softbank Mobile Corporation, Sony Ericsson, Teleca AB, Toshiba Corporation and Vodafone. That's not quite _everyone_ that matters, but pretty darn close


http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/09/open-handset-alliance-signs-up-14-more-android-lovers-including/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 9, 2008)

g force said:


> I had a play with one of these at the weekend - Kogan Agora Pro - high-end Android-based phone. Have to say I was mightily impressed with the features and the quality of finish (although I guess it will be at a premium price). The real let down was the keyboard...it didn't work for me testing out writing a short email. Text messaging was fine but the bloody return key was sticking and the guy who was trialing it claimed it had done so since day one!



Yep it doesn't look to bad in the video I've seen, certainly a nice looking phone than the G1. One thing though, I really wish they'd get rid of that fucking clock and blue background! It makes the device look so pony!


----------



## g force (Dec 9, 2008)

His didn't have that it was a black background...but it was field trial version not the official launch handset. Still a mighty nice handset in terms of size, weight and general feel. Decent camera too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 9, 2008)

g force said:


> His didn't have that it was a black background...but it was field trial version not the official launch handset. Still a mighty nice handset in terms of size, weight and general feel. Decent camera too.



Ah right, hope it gets a release outside of Australia, we need more handsets!


----------



## Sunray (Dec 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep it doesn't look to bad in the video I've seen, certainly a nice looking phone than the G1. One thing though, I really wish they'd get rid of that fucking clock and blue background! It makes the device look so pony!



That clock isn't showing the same time as the time in the top right?


----------



## ooo (Dec 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> That clock isn't showing the same time as the time in the top right?



LOL!  An error from the designers.  The photo shot is only for promotion purpose.


BTW, the background image can be changed and you can also 'trash' the clock.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

Here is a very important piece if information for the android platform, 14 new members, 
AKM Semiconductor, ARM, ASUS, Atheros Communications, Borqs, Ericsson, Garmin, Huawei Technologies, Omron Software, Softbank Mobile, *Sony Ericsson *, Teleca AB, Toshiba and Vodafone.

Sony Ericsson, finally someone other than Motorola who's track record tick's more boxes than 'makes mobile phones'.    The initial list was very thread bare, and without Motorola would have looked a bit comical. It was one of the concerns that I raised for the platform some time ago.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2008)

High end Sony Ericsson's running Android look to be coming right up!


> According to two reports, Sony Ericsson and HTC are both semi-confirming Android handsets for 2009. An SE spokesman by the name of Garfield Brusewitz was quoted as saying that the company would introduce higher-end models of the Google-powered devices to start with, then supplement those handsets with cheaper versions aimed at a broader market. In another article, HTC says that it will launch one "or more" Android phones in the new year, aiming to have them on shelves by Summer.


http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/10/sony-ericsson-htc-say-android-powered-handsets-due-next-year/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2008)

Nice!!!


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

I reckon I'm not alone in looking at the X1 and wondering. 

That would be a very nice Android phone indeed.

I also interested in seeing how the 1st 'dumb' Android phone turns out.  Google has said that it wants Android on lower end phones.  That will surely drive up the quality of the smart phones that are available.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I reckon I'm not alone in looking at the X1 and wondering.
> 
> That would be a very nice Android phone indeed.
> 
> I also interested in seeing how the 1st 'dumb' Android phone turns out.  Google has said that it wants Android on lower end phones.  That will surely drive up the quality of the smart phones that are available.



Yep, an Android run X1 would be sweet indeed.

If Palm can do so well with the Centro I can't see why a low end but still very decent Android powered smartphone could be done...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2008)

The X1 doesn't deliver, I'm afraid. Keyboard is too flush with the device and typing is a pain.

Good to see HTC on the list. I expect to see Android on the Touch HD within the year.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> The X1 doesn't deliver, I'm afraid. Keyboard is too flush with the device and typing is a pain.
> 
> Good to see HTC on the list. I expect to see Android on the Touch HD within the year.



Shame.  Still they do have a reasonable reputation of bringing out some nice phones including the now labelled 'dumb' phones. 

I had a go on the BB Storm touch screen the other day.  Thats a real failure as well.  While that click is fairly soft, its not soft enough to make fast typing anything other than more difficult.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Shame.  Still they do have a reasonable reputation of bringing out some nice phones including the now labelled 'dumb' phones.
> 
> I had a go on the BB Storm touch screen the other day.  Thats a real failure as well.  While that click is fairly soft, its not soft enough to make fast typing anything other than more difficult.



The Storm is the worst phone I've ever used. Worse than a Sagem. Worse than a Motorola.

The X1 is just a rebadged HTC by the way, not an SE phone at all.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2008)

Here's a video of Android running on the HTC Touch: http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/10/video-android-rocking-on-the-htc-touch/

HTC Touch HD + Android = iPhone D3str0Ya!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2008)

editor said:


> Here's a video of Android running on the HTC Touch: http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/10/video-android-rocking-on-the-htc-touch/
> 
> HTC Touch HD + Android = iPhone D3str0Ya!



Is it me or did it run alot faster and smoother than on the G1? The touch is a cute little smartphone, flat mate has one, was mucking about with it the other night. Would be great to get Android on a phone with that form factor...


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2008)

Is Android architecture-neutral, or ARM only (is there even any competition for ARM any more in smartphones?)


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

Its Linux, so its as architecture netural as Linux is, which means is not really, just takes time and effort to port it. 

Apps are all Java so thats platform independent.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 11, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep it doesn't look to bad in the video I've seen, certainly a nice looking phone than the G1. One thing though, I really wish they'd get rid of that fucking clock and blue background! It makes the device look so pony!



The clock is a "widget", you can stick it anyone you want on one of the three desktops areas, or bin it.  Background can be any picture you like, cropped however you like 


My G1 is the best gadget I've ever bought, and it's good to see other handsets in the pipeline, it can only make things better and better...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 11, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The clock is a "widget", you can stick it anyone you want on one of the three desktops areas, or bin it.  Background can be any picture you like, cropped however you like
> 
> 
> My G1 is the best gadget I've ever bought, and it's good to see other handsets in the pipeline, it can only make things better and better...



Yeah I know all that my point was those showcasing their new Android phones should really change it, it looks naff, the clock is wrong, and it looks naff. Did I mention it looks naff?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 11, 2008)

They've added Tasks to Gmail so theoretically Android should have them soon...and they've got a decent looking tool for auto syncing your Outlook with GCal too. Now, isn't it time they sorted out the contacts...


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2008)

Here's the most popular apps on the Android market:





http://www.flickr.com/photos/fast-company/3102274729/


----------



## nick h. (Dec 13, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They've added Tasks to Gmail so theoretically Android should have them soon...



Tasks is Beta so I'm not expecting it on the Android anytime soon. 

I'm a bit pissed off that they haven't sorted out syncing Outlook contacts yet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2008)

Yep, its a bit of a deal breaker for me tbh...dont see why they can sort calendar syncing but not contacts...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 13, 2008)

nick h. said:


> I'm a bit pissed off that they haven't sorted out syncing Outlook contacts yet.



There's an app on the Market which does this.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There's an app on the Market which does this.



Which one?


----------



## nick h. (Dec 13, 2008)

I've just been googling for it, and discovered this 'how to' that doesn't use any 3rd party products...and fuck me, it works  http://tomuse.com/how-to-outlook-windows-mobile-contacts-tmobile-g1/

Edit: correction, it doesn't sync but it exports without ballsing it up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2008)

That's the same process I used and Gmail cocked up all my contacts...


----------



## nick h. (Dec 13, 2008)

Well it's different from the one that cocked up my contacts last time. It works. Are you quite sure all the steps are the same? CSV DOS? Older version?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 14, 2008)

nick h. said:


> Well it's different from the one that cocked up my contacts last time. It works. Are you quite sure all the steps are the same? CSV DOS? Older version?



Ah, didn't see the words 'older version'. Did everything else though, might give it a go now...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 14, 2008)

Nice! It fucking worked!!! Hmmm....now tempted to get the G1!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 14, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Which one?



My bad, the one I'm thinking of syncs to Exchange, not Outlook.


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2008)

The excellent Documents to Go suite is coming to Android - and there's an Exchange ActiveSync client coming right up too.





> *Documents To Go for Android*
> The announcement on the company's blog is very light on details, but it does include a screenshot of the Android version of SheetToGo, the portion of this software suite for working with Microsoft Excel files. In addition, this suite will contain apps that will allow users to create and edit Microsoft Word and PowerPoint files.
> All versions of DocsToGo employ DataViz's InTact Technology, which maintains all a documents' original formatting.
> *RoadSync, Too*
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 14, 2008)

Yep Android is shaping up well...it needs new devices though. But hopefully we'll have all that by next summer...


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2008)

Here's an interesting Android voicemail client - created by a Landahner.



> HulloMail, which is downloadable from Android Market, provides a simple optimized view of your voicemails from the G1 phone. You can see a list of messages and choose which ones to listen to, without having to waste time listening to messages you don’t want to hear.
> 
> New functionality to be added in the coming months includes - audio name and greeting message, where you’ll be able to record a personalized greeting for different people using our nifty caller display technology. The HulloMail app will sync easily with GMail contact information, giving you the choice to reply, for the first time, with either a voice call, email or text message.
> 
> ...


Video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gknkAdjC_vA


----------



## nick h. (Dec 16, 2008)

Now that is just BRILLIANT. I hope it works. 

On the subject of brilliant market apps, Power Manager is good. Shows your battery level as a percentage whether you're discharging or recharging. Gives you a really fast way to turn wi-fi and GPS etc. on and off. Also lets you switch off all non-essentials in one go with just one button.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 16, 2008)

I've found that simply by turning the screen brightness down to 20% (which is still way brighter and clearer than most phones) all my power issues were solved. At the end of eavch day Ive usually got at least 20% left, and thats with wifi always on and with lots of email/browsing.


----------



## nick h. (Dec 16, 2008)

That's handy. Have you found a way to lengthen the delay before the screen lock comes on?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 16, 2008)

nick h. said:


> That's handy. Have you found a way to lengthen the delay before the screen lock comes on?



Settings -> Sound & Display -> Screen Timeout


----------



## nick h. (Dec 16, 2008)

That doesn't work when you're on a call. The screen goes dark 10 secs or less after the call starts which is very awkward when you're trying to punch in codes for an automated switchboard, or look up something when you're in the middle of a call.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2008)

Now this looks like a very interesting app:


> With this application you can create, edit, share, and view personalized maps on your Android powered phone synchronized with the My Maps tab on Google Maps. Create a map on your desktop computer using Google Maps and then take it with you on the go and update it on location. My Maps Editor by Google supports full editing functionality for markers, lines, and shapes on maps, plus the ability to mark your location using GPS or attach a photo directly from your phone. Your maps are automatically synchronized with your My Maps on the web. Check out this tour of Google Mountain View  that I just created on my phone:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2008/12/your-maps-in-your-hands-for-holidays.html


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 17, 2008)

I want android even more now. Please HTC do us some handsets and orange, please stock them.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 17, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> I want android even more now. Please HTC do us some handsets and orange, please stock them.



Just get a G1 if you want Android, they really are very nice phones, almost every single thing that's an issue for me is a software one, and not a fault of the hardware.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just get a G1 if you want Android, they really are very nice phones, almost every single thing that's an issue for me is a software one, and not a fault of the hardware.



What are your current issues software wise?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2008)

editor said:


> Now this looks like a very interesting app:
> 
> http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2008/12/your-maps-in-your-hands-for-holidays.html



I like this. Very neat!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 17, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What are your current issues software wise?



There's an odd one where if I'm connected to a wireless network I can't send an MMS message, copy and paste is there but needs tweaking so you can do it from anywhere and not just text entry fields, and the ability to save pictures from an MMS onto the memory card would be nice, as would the ability to save apps to the memory card and not just the phone memory.  Unless I'm being thick I also can't find a way to send someone's contact details to another phone, which is also quite annoying.

My post here and the next few I made from that point cover most of my thoughts on it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 17, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just get a G1 if you want Android, they really are very nice phones, almost every single thing that's an issue for me is a software one, and not a fault of the hardware.



I probably would, but where I live I can only get orange reception. Considered the Touch HD, but know I will kick myself if I get an 18 month contract and orange get some android phone the first half next year.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2008)

Was just watching Android running on the HTC Touch (running very smoothly); you know if some guy can get Android working that easily on a HTC phone, why the hell don't HTC just release a load of Android versions of the current crop of phones??!


----------



## newbie (Dec 17, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Was just watching Android running on the HTC Touch (running very smoothly); you know if some guy can get Android working that easily on a HTC phone, why the hell don't HTC just release a load of Android versions of the current crop of phones??!



where?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2008)

Some site called Droideo, annoyingly you have to register to see the vids but they have a lot on there and regular updates...


----------



## newbie (Dec 17, 2008)

interesting, unfortunately the Touch Diamond doesn't look quite so promising.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2008)

newbie said:


> interesting, unfortunately the Touch Diamond doesn't look quite so promising.



Yeah true...


----------



## paolo (Dec 17, 2008)

Android must surely be in the wings for these mega-res phones. If you could get a G1 unlocked, and then punt it on, I'd get one now and get on board. If not, me personally, I'd wait. It won't be long before there's much better hardware to tie-in to.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Android must surely be in the wings for these mega-res phones. If you could get a G1 unlocked, and then punt it on, I'd get one now and get on board. If not, me personally, I'd wait. It won't be long before there's much better hardware to tie-in to.



Yep that's what keeping me from getting the G1, there's gotta be new hardware coming earlish next year...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 18, 2008)

I think all the those demos are using WM system to host Android as an application.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2008)

I'm not sure all are, the HTC HD is, the Touch isn't clear as it doesn't show it booting up...


----------



## kropotkin (Dec 18, 2008)

it is. boots from winmo.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2008)

Ah right, still runs well though. And like I said if some hacker can get it running surely the professional team at HTC can get it going properly...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 18, 2008)

Totally, its not like it demands specific hardware, its a version of linux.

Prolly been done already.  I can only think that Google will have an agreement with HTC to sell the G1 only for a while, to cover their expense in getting it out the door.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2008)

Woohoo!

Someone has released better camera software!

JPEG quality adjustment, white balance adjustment, night mode and stability detection.  This makes the camera usable, rather than annoying.  All it needs now is exposure compensation.

That's one more thing crossed off the list that all the reviewers (me included) moaned about


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Totally, its not like it demands specific hardware, its a version of linux.
> 
> Prolly been done already. * I can only think that Google will have an agreement with HTC to sell the G1 only for a while, to cover their expense in getting it out the door.*



Yeah that could be it or something similar...



beesonthewhatnow said:


> Woohoo!
> 
> Someone has released better camera software!
> 
> ...



Really? I thought the camera wasn't too bad? What's the app called?


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Woohoo!
> 
> Someone has released better camera software!


Ooh! Now that is interesting. Link?

As soon as the onscreen keyboard is sorted I think my wallet could be opening!


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2008)

Looks like a big code fix with extra features are a-coming. Video is on and so is stereo Bluetooth.



> New “cupcake” update details have been announced on the Android project site. Apparently we will be getting a lot more than a few bug fixes and supposed security patches. Just what else is there, take a look after the jump.
> 
> Google has decided to tear into the camera and pull out video recording for all T-Mobile G1 owners. No longer will we be behind with the rest of the phones because the lack of basic features. The browser will be getting an inline find function that implements very selective copy and paste. There are also a few speed enhancements that may or may not be recognizable to the average user.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2008)

On screen keyboard any day now then...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 18, 2008)

Why do you want an onscreen keyboard when it's got a hardware one?


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Why do you want an onscreen keyboard when it's got a hardware one?


Would you want to flip out the keyboard every time you just wanted to answer a short text?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Would you want to flip out the keyboard every time you just wanted to answer a short text?



Why not? It can't even take a second.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Why not? It can't even take a second.


Have you never answered a text using just one hand? You need two hands for the pull out keyboard.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 19, 2008)

Not since I got a qwerty keyboard. 

Oh and since decided that texting while driving may not be safe.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 19, 2008)

editor said:


> Ooh! Now that is interesting. Link?



It's called "SnapPhoto", available from the Market. There's an FAQ about it online somwhere, I'll dig out the URL  when I've got a minute...


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2008)

Samsung's Android phone has been announced. Android is going to be the BIG news of next year IMO!


> A Samsung official said, “_We are accelerating the development process for Google phone in order to meet the specific need of local carriers. We will be able to release Google phone in the second quarter of the next year in the US market._ ”
> 
> The phone itself will be a full touchscreen, imagine a Omnia-like design only sleeker. The UI will obviously be different and have all things Google like Maps, Search, GTalk, Gmail etc.
> http://modmygphone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9021


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2008)

That's huge news. The only question I have is do Samsung actually make decent phones in terms of build quality etc? Never had one and not many I know use them either...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 19, 2008)

My ex got almost 3 years out of one their slide jobs and gave it some abuse, seemed a lot tougher then the N80 I had at the time, much nicer slide action. That said I don't think I'd get another slide phone anyhow.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2008)

Looks like the T Mobile G2 is coming soon:









> Yeah, we’re going to have to go ahead and file this one pretty low on the rumor totem pole, but supposedly T-Mobile is planning to release its second Android-powered handset just over a month from now. According to a leaked document from an anonymous CellPhone Signal tipster, the G1 sequel will be released on January 26th and will be dubbed, you guessed it, the G2. While the manufacturer isn’t specified, if it is real we have to assume HTC will be responsible for having nailed it together. As for specs, it’s no slouch:
> 
> 
> Android OS
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2008)

Oh man! I hope Android phones start to look this good!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 19, 2008)

An app to save pictures from MMS messages has just appeared on the Market.  It's a bit clunky (you don't save from the message directly, you run the app and it lists all the pics you currently have in your inbox, and you then pick which ones you want to save to the memory card), but will fill the gap until the next OS update which will implement this properly


----------



## paolo (Dec 20, 2008)

Only just noticed Ed's post about Maps editor. I could really use that, for my mapping projects. I could see myself getting an Android phone soley to use for that, if it can cope with my kml files.


----------



## newbie (Dec 20, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Only just noticed Ed's post about Maps editor. I could really use that, for my mapping projects. I could see myself getting an Android phone soley to use for that, if it can cope with my kml files.



massive potential, but think of the bandwidth- half the festival uploading geotagged photos direct to each others timeline enabled MyMap overlays... 

Although not having to faff about creating kml files sounds great, it's the sharing of mapping that's most exciting about this, which means it can't stay Android exclusive.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 21, 2008)

Video of an on screen keyboard (registration required).


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Video of an on screen keyboard (registration required).


You can see it here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Nvy3iRffM
Looks great.

Video of the amazing SkyMap app here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kzCj7-3S1Mc

Oh, and beefy 1400mAh extended battery all yours for $43 (or you could just buy a load of cheapo batts instead). 
http://androidcommunity.com/extende...e-less-than-desired-g1-battery-life-20081222/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Video of the amazing SkyMap app here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kzCj7-3S1Mc



I've downloaded that, and it is pretty cool, but ultimately a bit of a novelty.

This video however, has got me very excited indeed...

(website for it is http://www.androffice.com/)


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

The rumours keep on building of an Android powered HTC Touch HD being announced at CES in January.

Now that would be a total and utter iPhone crusher. I want. Double want.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> The rumours keep on building of an Android powered HTC Touch HD being announced at CES in January.
> 
> Now that would be a total and utter iPhone crusher. I want. Double want.



Yep, the idea is very very cool. All that remains is too hope the tariff isn't stupid and it's available on more than one network...


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, the idea is very very cool. All that remains is too hope the tariff isn't stupid and it's available on more than one network...


Android + HTC Touch HD = instant buy for me, and I'd be prepared to pay a fair bit more for such a fantastic combo.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Android + HTC Touch HD = instant buy for me, and I'd be prepared to pay a fair bit more for such a fantastic combo.



It'd have to be free or close to, not buying a phone and being locked into a long contract. Maybe I've just been spoilt by having the Centro and a sim only deal but you know recession, money needs to be watched etc...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Android + HTC Touch HD



No QWERTY keyboard = fail, surely


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No QWERTY keyboard = fail, surely


As I said before, I've long given up trying to find the phone that ('scuse the pun) pushes all my buttons, but I really, really liked the HTC HD, even though it failed in the keyboard department. You see, I don't much like slide out keyboards either, so I'm never going to be fully satisfied but the HTC HD + Android has so many awesome features, it combines to make an irresistible package. And it has an FM radio with 3.5mm jack! And 5MP camera! And video!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> it has an *FM radio* with 3.5mm jack! And 5MP camera! And *video*



Will be interesting to see then, because as it stands at the moment Android can't access either of those.  I assume this all ties in with the OS update that's rumoured for January.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Multiple new Android phones coming up from Garmin in 2009.
The platform is getting _hot!_

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/22/garmin-planning-android-powered-handsets-for-late-2009/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

Is the Touch HD a capacitive touchscreen or a resistive one? After using my G1 there is no way on earth I'd go back to the latter...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Is the Touch HD a capacitive *touchscreen or a resistive one*? After using my G1 there is no way on earth I'd go back to the latter...



What's the difference?


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's the difference?



Resistive = can be used with a stylus, you physically press the screen down a fraction.  Fail.

Capacative = must be used with a finger, but you just touch the glass, and has a much crisper screen.  Win.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Resistive = can be used with a stylus, you physically press the screen down a fraction.  Fail.
> 
> Capacative = must be used with a finger, but you just touch the glass, and has a much crisper screen.  Win.



Unless your somewhere really really fucking cold.  Then a stylus suddenly becomes win.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Unless your somewhere really really fucking cold.  Then a stylus suddenly becomes win.



How cold are we talking though?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

So cold that you don't want to take your gloves off and there is a chance your finger is going to stick.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> So cold that you don't want to take your gloves off and there is a chance your finger is going to stick.



If I'm that cold the last thing I'm going to be doing is fiddling about with my smartphone!


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If I'm that cold the last thing I'm going to be doing is fiddling about with my smartphone!



Yeah but the Canadians are slighty mad, they live somewhere that gets that cold.  

.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> So cold that you don't want to take your gloves off and there is a chance your finger is going to stick.



If it's cold enough for that then you'd be wearing gloves so thick that using a fiddly stylus would be nigh in impossible


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 27, 2008)

Tried to have a play with the live G1 today but some cock was hogging it big time in the shop (much to the dismay of his moaning girlfriend who kept begging him to leave it alone), had another look at the dummy unit though. Must say the design has grown on me a little, quite tempted (especially as now my contacts issue has been nicely sorted).

Two things are holding me back:

1) possibility of nice new iPhone's with at least 32gigs coming early in the New Year
2) possibility of new Android powered devices coming sooner than later...

Dilemas!


----------



## editor (Dec 27, 2008)

Not sure what's so exciting about a 32GB iPod - you'll be able to increase the G1's memory to whatever is the current max SD capacity (and you can always carry around gigabytes of spare cards stuffed with more content).

There is definitely more Android devices on the way for '09, but if you like the G1 then you may as well bite the bullet and enjoy all the Android excitement.

After having a  long play on an iPhone this week, my mind's 100% made up: I'm going Android! (although 'm ging to wait until after CES to see what's coming up).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 27, 2008)

I like the iPod and make no apologies for that. 

I like the idea of convergence, a phone with a proper iPod would be ideal but the specs and the tariff aren't quite there yet for me. I like Android but not 100%, although am tempted, on the current hardware but even if I did get it I'd still buy another iPod (probably the 32gig touch) because as I say I like the iPod.


----------



## paolo (Dec 27, 2008)

Not a bad combo, particularly if you are (or can become) Google-centric with your contacts and calendar.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 27, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Not a bad combo, particularly if you are (or can become) Google-centric with your contacts and calendar.



If you use Google for your email, getting a G1/Android is a complete no brainer IMO.


----------



## nick h. (Dec 27, 2008)

And why not become Google-centric? Seems like a no-brainer to me.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 27, 2008)

There are plenty of reasons not to become google-centric and to keep your data for yourself offline, and/or on independent systems.

You should, however, be quite easily able to sync any phone or pda or whatever with google services, seeing as how gmail has IMAP, gcal can sync as CalDAV and so on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2008)

Heh gadget lust...that's such a great term!


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

PC Pro have the G1 as #5 in the Tech flops of 2008



> 5. T-Mobile G1
> 
> Why!? Why does it have to be this way? What should have been the phone that finally gave the Apple iPhone a run for its money turned out to be so very, utterly, completely... average. I tried to like the thing, but it's too heavy, too cumbersome, too fiddly, too expensive and it has as much staying power as Paula Radcliffe in an Olympic year.
> 
> The only bright spot is that Google Android itself turned out to be extremely promising.



So I stand by my suggestion that if you want an android phone, wait till there are nicer models.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> So I stand by my suggestion that if you want an android phone, wait till there are nicer models.


You could have said that about the iPhone v1 too - a brilliant, but deeply flawed phone. If you want a fully featured smartphone (MMS, video etc), you're going to have to wait for the iPhone v3+ too.

The G1 is still a great phone. If the rumoured Android HTC HD appears, things are going to get very interesting.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

Of course you can get into a endless wait loop.  I waited a whole year for the 3g as I thought the 2g iPhone was too flawed.  

I just think that there is some strange dynamic that we don't know about with HTC and Google.  Its preventing HTC releasing better phones.  They may well be waiting for the next release of Android.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2008)

An Android HTC HD would be sweet, even better if they could get a slide out keyboard in there without adding any extra bulk.


----------



## newbie (Dec 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> An Android HTC HD would be sweet, even better if they could get a slide out keyboard in there without adding any extra bulk.



this assumes that Android is/will be as capable as WM6 when running on the same hardware.  Currently it's not, for example mapping and navigation are reliant entirely on Google Maps and it can't run Memory Map or TomTom. Maybe that will change, or maybe the Google offerings will improve sufficiently to render the commercial offerings obsolete. But that hasn't happened yet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2008)

newbie said:


> this assumes that Android is/will be as capable as WM6 when running on the same hardware.  Currently it's not, for example mapping and navigation are reliant entirely on Google Maps and it can't run Memory Map or TomTom. Maybe that will change, or maybe the Google offerings will improve sufficiently to render the commercial offerings obsolete. But that hasn't happened yet.



A fair assumption given the number of HTC devices hackers have had Android running on...


----------



## newbie (Dec 30, 2008)

getting Android running on the hardware is a hackers dream but it doesn't make Android any more capable.  Once it's possible to choose the phone OS moreorless independently of the hardware, as is becoming the case with personal computers, it'll move out of the hands of hackers and into the mainstream.  Then we'll see what ordinary users think about the totality of the offering.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> PC Pro have the G1 as #5 in the Tech flops of 2008



Sorry, but that's bollocks.

I'm convinced half the reviews out there haven't even played with a fucking G1, because most of the "faults" with it they bang on about simply don't exist.

"too heavy, too cumbersome, too fiddly, too expensive"

Too heavy and cumbersome?  It's no worse than any other smartphone I've played with.

Fiddly?  It's the easiest OS to use of anything, with the possible exception of the iPhone, and it beats that in several areas.

Expensive?  Mine was free, and there are loads of deals out there if you shop around.


People are seemingly bashing it because the hardware wasn't anything ground breaking - So what?  It's just a decent, very well spec'd phone, that has the bonus of running the best OS available for a mobile device at the moment.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> They may well be waiting for the next release of Android.



That's coming in January apparently...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2008)

newbie said:


> getting Android running on the hardware is a hackers dream but it doesn't make Android any more capable.  Once it's possible to choose the phone OS moreorless independently of the hardware, as is becoming the case with personal computers, it'll move out of the hands of hackers and into the mainstream.  Then we'll see what ordinary users think about the totality of the offering.



What do you mean by 'capable'?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

> I'm convinced half the reviews out there haven't even played with a fucking G1, because most of the "faults" with it they bang on about simply don't exist.



I think the problem is that its a ground breaking OS, the 1st open source OS of it type.  Thats very exciting news for a lot of people.   I and the rest of the community wanted it to run on the most cutting edge hardware available but that's not what we got.  Its not even the best device HTC make? For Android to be a success, people have to want it, and a lacklustre phone does not do that.  There is a good probability the people who would have bought it, already had a better phone.

I've no doubt your happy with that phone, nobody saying it doesn't work, or its particularly bad.  But it's disappointed many many people, its not surprising that there is a lot of negativity.  It could and should have been so much better.  That Edge vapourware article the Ed posted, has Android hardware as one of their Vapourwares of 2008, 



> 'There is one beacon of hope from down under. Australian company Kogan Technologies plans to release the Agora, the world's first non-G1 Google phone, in January of 2009. We look forward to reading the reviews on our iPhones.'


 

I am more interested in what Palm are going to offer in the next few weeks than I am about Android right now.  The lack of hardware for Android has given Palm a real window of opportunity to revive their flagging fortunes.  Thinking about it, hard to believe as it may be, if Palm launch a really great phone, it will actually put pressure on the Android platform.

The entire point of Android is a free cutting edge OS for mobile phones. Unfortunately the very people that are the targets of Android seem reluctant to do more than pay lip service to using it.  No real reason seems to be forth coming.  I can only speculate that they are somewhat reluctant to try to take on Apple?  Hardly surprising, Apple have a 18 month head start and their mighty marketing juggernaut.  I hardly watch TV but haven't been able to avoid the iPhone ads.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

It's the applications that will make Android a winner - and there's an awful lot of people writing them right now, along with several massive tech hardware companies.
I can't say the same for Palm, sadly.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

The applications are only going to be there if the phone has sold lots.  No point in making software if nobody is there to buy it.  I suppose the Open Source community may well help in that regard, but often the quality can be too low to do anything other than harm the platform.

Current sales are 1 million G1's against Apples 15 Million 3G sales. Dunno how many 2G iPhone's they sold.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I and the rest of the community wanted it to run on the most cutting edge hardware available but that's not what we got.



The G1 has:

A brilliant touchscreen
3G / HSPDA
GPS
WiFi
Accelerometer for tilt/motion control
Electronic compass for directional location based services
Full QWERTY keyboard
Removable battery
Removable memory card

The only major problem is a lack of 3.5mm audio jack.

What on earth more do people want on it


----------



## newbie (Dec 30, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What do you mean by 'capable'?



same as I meant when I said


newbie said:


> this assumes that Android is/will be as capable as WM6 when running on the same hardware.  Currently it's not, for example mapping and navigation are reliant entirely on Google Maps and it can't run Memory Map or TomTom.



fundamentally Google exists to deliver advertising, unlike Apple, Microsoft, Palm, Nokia, HTC and all the rest which need to sell hardware &/or software.

we have yet to see whether Android will develop into a platform for apps which don't fit the advertising model.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 30, 2008)

newbie said:


> we have yet to see whether Android will develop into a platform for apps which don't fit the advertising model.



There isn't a single ad on Android.


----------



## newbie (Dec 30, 2008)

there will be.  Or do you really think they're developing this for purely altruistic reasons.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> The applications are only going to be there if the phone has sold lots.  No point in making software if nobody is there to buy it.  I suppose the Open Source community may well help in that regard, but often the quality can be too low to do anything other than harm the platform.
> 
> Current sales are 1 million G1's against Apples 15 Million 3G sales. Dunno how many 2G iPhone's they sold.


Sure. But there's only been one Android phone to date and some of the _biggest handset manufacturers in the world _are lining up models for next year.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The G1 has:
> 
> A brilliant touchscreen
> 3G / HSPDA
> ...



There are many phones out there that have feature sets as long as your arm but its how they are executed that makes all the difference. 

The iPhone has raised the bar and now smart phones are judged against it and in that comparison its disappointed all the reviewers, the pod casts, you can hear the sense of disappointment of the G1 but lots of praise for Android.

Find me a glowing review of the G1 from a respected source?  I have looked.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Find me a glowing review of the G1 from a respected source?  I have looked.


Not very hard, it seems:

C|Net: "Very good"
_For a first attempt, Google has exceeded some of our expectations -- but we hope to see improvements on the next one_

Independent
_With what is already an impressive selection of applications available and    plenty more on the horizon, the G1's functional and high-powered handset    seems set to make an interesting three way battle between the most desirable    phones this Christmas.  _
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/features/review-t-mobile-g1-1019391.html

Computeractive
_...the G1 is a surprisingly clever, well-built phone with a number of nice touches that make it a true competitor to the iPhone._
http://www.computeractive.co.uk/computeractive/hardware/2230742/review-mobile-g1-phone


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Sure. But there's only been one Android phone to date and some of the _biggest handset manufacturers in the world _are lining up models for next year.



They are starting to run out of time. The incredible sales that Apple are chalking up, they will have taken over the world hoovering up all the people who might have bought an Android phone to an 18 month contract.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> They are starting to run out of time. The incredible sales that Apple are chalking up, they will have taken over the world hoovering up all the people who might have bought an Android phone to an 18 month contract.


No, they're not. Palm once chalked up massive sales, and Nokia's sales still dwarf Apple, so it's not all sewn up and things can change quickly.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> There are many phones out there that have feature sets as long as your arm but its how they are executed that makes all the difference... you can hear the sense of disappointment of the G1 but lots of praise for Android.



But how hardware is executed is down to the software, so if people are praising Android, why are they having a go at the G1


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Not very hard, it seems:
> 
> C|Net: "Very good"
> _For a first attempt, Google has exceeded some of our expectations -- but we hope to see improvements on the next one_
> ...



Your trying to defend the indefensible. Its lacklustre and everyone knows it.

Why did PC Pro put it on their #5 flops of 2008, because its great?


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Your trying to defend the indefensible. Its lacklustre and everyone knows it.
> 
> Why did PC Pro put it on their #5 flops of 2008, because its great?


Hold on: so you're going to ignore all the positive reviews I've just posted (and all the others in this thread) in favour of the _one_ review by PC Pro?

Why, exactly?


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

And a quick Google reveals:





> *Crunchgear Best of 2008: Best Phone*
> *T-Mobile G1*
> People’s Choice
> *iPhone 3G*
> ...





> T-Mobile's Android-based G1 isn't especially sexy or eye-catching, but it does a lot of things right. It's a strong first-generation Android device, but the absence of a standard headphone jack, a video camera, and Google Docs (and support for Word and Excel) at launch are notable detractions. Still, I would recommend this versatile phone over countless other smart-phones; Android's intuitive ease-of-use raises this phone above most Windows Mobile- and BlackBerry-based devices.http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/product/39727/review/g1.html


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

editor said:


> No, they're not. Palm once chalked up massive sales, and Nokia's sales still dwarf Apple, so it's not all sewn up and things can change quickly.



The dumb phone market is taken care of by Nokia, LG, SE, Samsung etc etc and has nothing to do with these phones.

These are expensive smart phones that are not within the means of everyone nor are they wanted by everyone.   There is a much smaller user base that (on those sales figures) is currently in the process of buying iPhones.  In the US AT&T has 2 year contracts for iPhones.  Every time someone there buys an iPhone, its 2 years before they will be in the market for a similar device.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Every time someone there buys an iPhone, its 2 years before they will be in the market for a similar device.


That's rubbish for starters. You can get it on an 18 month contract and eBay is stuffed full of people selling their smartphones, many of which are considerably less than 24 months old.

Have you never changed your phone before the contract was up? I certainly have.

Oh, and in case you haven't noticed, Nokia, LG and Samsung etc all make smartphones too.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Hold on: so you're going to ignore all the positive reviews I've just posted (and all the others in this thread) in favour of the _one_ review by PC Pro?
> 
> Why, exactly?



None are exactly 'glowing', positive but not setting the world alight.

If it was so damn good why is everyone asking about new Android hardware?  Why does the Edge have Android hardware as one of their Vaporware's of 2008?


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> None are exactly 'glowing', positive but not setting the world alight.


So the *Best Phone Of The Year* award, isn't enough for you?

LOL.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

From a nobody.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> If it was so damn good why is everyone asking about new Android hardware?



And I ask again - what on earth more do people want the G1 to do?

Lack of 3.5mm headphone jack - yep, I'll agree with that one.  But that's hardly unique to the G1.

No video camera - this is a software issue, not hardware.  Video support is one of the updates coming in the January Android update.


So, just what do these reviews want the G1 to do that it doesn't already


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> And I ask again - what on earth more do people want the G1 to do?
> 
> Lack of 3.5mm headphone jack - yep, I'll agree with that one.  But that's hardly unique to the G1.
> 
> ...



They want it to be slick like the iPhone. Its clunky right now. It might have the. Features but it's missing that desirability.  It's belt and braces. This is a new platform that wants to set new standards and be popular and to be popular it's got to have that something extra.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> From a nobody.


It's quite a well known site actually. 

The G1 was also one of just six featured in CNet's* 'Best cell phones of 2008'* round up. http://reviews.cnet.com/4321-6454_7-6646313.html
Well known enough for you?

Or one of the '*Editor's Choice*' for best cell phone here:
http://www.mobiledia.com/phones/editors-choice/page1.html

Or a top 3 ranking in PCWorld's *'Top 10 Smart Phones'* review (above the iPhone 3G)?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/125397/top_10_smart_phones.html


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 30, 2008)

Sunray said:


> They want it to be slick like the iPhone. Its clunky right now.



It's anything but clunky


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2008)

The way the keyboard opens out is like that cash till in Open All Hours!


----------



## paolo (Dec 31, 2008)

The G1 has a competent hardware functionality spec, but not stellar. HTC has far better stuff, that's shipping here and now. But aside from it's mostly me-too-ness (give or take things like the compass), the execution is weak. It's a bit yick. Not dreadful, just a bit meh. There are far shinier baubles to be had.

In sales terms it's nowhere, but then again it was always going to be, as a new entrant with relatively low visibility, limit markets, and placement with weaker carriers. The iPhone is now shipping in plenty of places, and is usually tied into the biggest player in the territory. Add to that the brand recognition for consumer electronics that Apple has (Unlike HTC or google) and it leaves the G1 in a very weak position. For those reasons, personally I don't think the G1 will ramp like the iPhone did.

Android though, is a different thing. There's a fledgling ecosystem, and I think we all know that 2009 will see hardware that will not only be un-clunky, but positively fab. Mega res, capacitive touch. And all those nicities that Apple won't budge on - removable batteries, card slots etc.

Apple's our-software, our-hardware approach failed them in desktop PC's (total dominance with Apple II, to then become a niche player), but succeeded with music players, where the iPod still rules and there's no sign of anyone catching them.

So which of those two fates will happen with phones? Personally I think the former. Android, I believe, is set to be the DOS of the phone world. It won't overtake Apple in 2009, in units, but by 2010 or 2011 Apple's walled garden will be edged into second or third place. Not quite as niche as Apple computers, but more a BMW vs. Ford position.


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> So which of those two fates will happen with phones? Personally I think the former. Android, I believe, is set to be the DOS of the phone world. It won't overtake Apple in 2009, in units, but by 2010 or 2011 Apple's walled garden will be edged into second or third place. Not quite as niche as Apple computers, but more a BMW vs. Ford position.


Just a little perspective here: Apple are nowhere near #1 at the moment.

*Smartphone sales/market share 2008:*

Nokia
Q3 2008 shipments = 15.485 mil
                       Market share = 39%

                                 Apple
                       6.899 mil
17%

                                 Research In Motion
                       6.051 mil
                       15%

                                 Motorola
                       2.313 mil
                       6%

                                 High Tech Computer
                       2.308 mil
                       6%

Source: http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2008/12/30/how-palm-could-lose-everything.aspx


----------



## paolo (Dec 31, 2008)

Perhaps churlish of me to imply Apple were number one by all and any measure. Clearly not by whatever the definition is for those numbers. My personal smartphone benchmark is quite basic: QWERTY input, support for apps. For all I know Nokia could still be number one, but Symbian, perhaps worse than WM, seems like a case of "the living dead". It's on a zillion phones, but there's no user engagement, no thriving ecosystem.

Still, all that aside, my overall view remains: Apple keeps the mindshare for 2009, then Android overtakes by outgunning in numbers.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 31, 2008)

On the current basis I very much doubt that Android will become dominant in the next few years. That would require the major phone manufacturers to adopt it, which they show no signs of doing. In fact they show no signs of changing their dodgy old platforms at all, for reasons best known to them.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 31, 2008)

Didn't sony ericsson dump all their symbian/UIQ staff and hire a load of android developers?


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Didn't sony ericsson dump all their symbian/UIQ staff and hire a load of android developers?


Not quite:


> T-Mobile's G1 is the only commercially available Android-powered smartphone, but the handset's design has been hit or miss with many critics and customers. The next year should further the Open Handset Alliance's goal of spreading Android to multiple handsets with various form factors
> 
> Samsung is reportedly readying a touch-screen Android phone that could have a similar form factor as the company's Instinct or Behold smartphones. These devices would require Android's virtual keyboard, which is on track for the first quarter of 2009. Samsung executives told ETnews the company has sped up its Android development, and a handset is expected for Sprint  and T-Mobile in the second quarter of 2009.
> 
> ...


----------



## paolo (Dec 31, 2008)

Moto and SE are apparently dipping their toes, but I might be being a little optimistic. It's converting that "dipping their toes" stuff (as many have done with WM) beyond the tipping point. Another possibility is that the current "also ran" players, who've never had any OS aspirations (Samsung, LG etc) just start pounding out Android handsets, leaving a new world order where (effectively) proprietary OS's with no ecosystem, such as Symbian, are left out in the cold.

I'll bet there's been some very interesting arguments going at Nokia in the last 6 months.


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2008)

The major  'cupcake' Android update has been confirmed for the G1, so users can expect a ton of goodies soon, including an onscreen keyboard, stereo Bluetooth and more.

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/12/30/cupcake-confirmed-for-t-mobile-g1/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I think we all know that 2009 will see hardware that will not only be un-clunky, but positively fab. Mega res, capacitive touch. And all those nicities that Apple won't budge on - removable batteries, card slots etc.



<looks at his G1>

Decent res - check.
Capacitive touch - check
Removable battery - check
Removable memory card - check



so, I ask, *again*, what's so wrong with the G1?  What on earth more features did people want on it? Why are people bashing it so much?


----------



## cliche guevara (Dec 31, 2008)

editor said:


> including an onscreen keyboard



Sold!

Now do I wait until April, or fight t-mobile to downgrade my contract then buy it out?


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2008)

The Android Market is getting beefed up, with app pricing becoming available. That should kickstart some new programs in development.


> Many of you have asked about international expansion plans. I’m happy to
> inform you that Android Market will become available to users to download
> apps in additional European countries starting early Q1 2009. Some of the
> countries we will initially support are Germany, Austria, Czech Republic
> ...


----------



## paolo (Dec 31, 2008)

```

```



beesonthewhatnow said:


> <looks at his G1>
> 
> Decent res - check.
> Capacitive touch - check
> ...



I can't speak for everyone else, but next to the gorgeous Touch HD, it's the plain-looking sister.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> 
> I can't speak for everyone else, but next to the gorgeous Touch HD, it's the plain-looking sister.



So, all you can bash it on is its looks 

Have you played with one irl?  It's way better looking than pictures suggest, especially in white.


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I can't speak for everyone else, but next to the gorgeous Touch HD, it's the plain-looking sister.


I don't think anyone's claiming that it's an aesthete's dream worthy of putting on a pedestal, but for functionality, performance, apps and usability, it's a great phone. The interface isn't quite as smooth as the iPhone's but that's a fair enough trade off to avoid being sucked into the Apple Borg, IMO.

Then again, I think the iPhone's interface looks tired against the HTC HD's.


----------



## tarannau (Dec 31, 2008)

I've played with one Bees. It's alright, it just feels a little clunky and unpolished compared to its major competitors. Doesn't give out the same feeling of quality iykwim


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 31, 2008)

editor said:


> I think the iPhone's interface looks tired against the HTC HD's.



The thing Android has brought home to me is just how cluttered the iPhone homepage can get once you install a load of apps...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 31, 2008)

You can make it as empty or full as you like.  There are multiple pages,  exactly like the Android platform you can scroll left and right,  but I have the most commonly used ones on the 1st page.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 31, 2008)

Sunray said:


> You can make it as empty or full as you like.  There are multiple pages,  exactly like the Android platform you can scroll left and right,  but I have the most commonly used ones on the 1st page.



Ah, I thought you can move them around, but not hide anything - they all have to be on those pages?


----------



## paolo (Dec 31, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, all you can bash it on is its looks
> 
> Have you played with one irl?  It's way better looking than pictures suggest, especially in white.



Yes, I've played with one. It's not awful, it's just a bit meh. Although fair enough, if you want Android, it would be daft to let that be a barrier. But I suspect for many people it is though.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 31, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Ah, I thought you can move them around, but not hide anything - they all have to be on those pages?



I would need to see them to run them, but you can make the 1st screen completely blank apart from the bottom 4 (which you can change) if you like.   Its saves that extra step of having to press menu to bring up the apps then run them.  

I like that home page of the iPhone, its iconic now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 31, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I would need to see them to run them, but you can make the 1st screen completely blank apart from the bottom 4 (which you can change) if you like.



Ah right, I need to tell that to my mate then, he's got a fuckload of apps installed and was moaning that he can now never find the one he wants


----------



## editor (Jan 4, 2009)

Say hello to 'Android' girl (see tattoo).

Just as daft as Zune Guy and anyone else sticking an OS logo on their body, but perhaps a little easier on the eye.






http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/04/android-tattoo-girl/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 4, 2009)

That's not even a very good tattoo of it!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 4, 2009)

She's not good looking either...


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> She's not good looking either...


I don't want to get into a 'who's the best looking' argument, but I think it's fair to say that she's easier on the eye than this Zune Guy fellow.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 5, 2009)

Well it's an unfair comparison, I don't find men attractive so couldn't tell you whether he's attractive or not...


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2009)

You don't need to physically fancy men to offer an opinion on whether they might be considered attractive or not, you know!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 5, 2009)

editor said:


> You don't need to physically fancy men to offer an opinion on whether they might be considered attractive or not, you know!



Says you. Also, notions of beauty are fairly skewered in our society so the points moot either way.


----------



## Private Storm (Jan 5, 2009)

*Reasons why Android will beat the iPhone*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 5, 2009)

Haha excellent!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2009)

T Mobile looks like they've discounted the G1 again, either it's really not selling or they're trying to shift stock because a newer model is coming real soon...


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 6, 2009)

Really? It's been the same price since xmas as far as I can tell. Unless you're talking about handset only or PAYG deals, as I only look at pay monthly.


----------



## paolo (Jan 6, 2009)

Private Storm said:


>



Funny  and, erm... not true... :blush:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Really? It's been the same price since xmas as far as I can tell. Unless you're talking about handset only or PAYG deals, as I only look at pay monthly.



Just saw an advert online which discounts the 35 (1000 mins or 2000 texts) tariff to 31.50...


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 6, 2009)

I thought it had been that way for a while? I've been watching them closely because I'm desperate for one.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> I thought it had been that way for a while? I've been watching them closely because I'm desperate for one.



I could be wrong but I'm sure this is new, the other deal was 30 a month for less minutes and texts...I've a feeling it may be wise to wait (I want an Android phone too!)...


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 6, 2009)

Flext 30 is 700 mins / 1400 texts, and 35 is 1000 mins / 2000 texts. The 35 has been reduced to 31.50. It's a very tempting deal, but I've got the best part of four months to run on my current contract. I suppose this is a good thing, as more Android phones will be on their way by then, but I doubt whether their prices will be as good as this deal, and I have a feeling the next Android phone will not have a full keyboard.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2009)

Asus are hinting that their Eee phone may run on Android.

_Speaking to TechRadar at Asus' keynote speech at CES 2009, Shih said that the company was looking at a 'two-pronged' approach to simple, easy to use devices, meaning a device that can be "put in the pocket, play MP3s, offer GPS services, works like a PDA and offers Mobile TV altogether," according to Shih.

Given that Asus has recently joined the Open Handset Alliance, the organisation behind Android, TechRadar asked Shih about the company's plans to use the OS.

He commended the "momentum" Google has already built with the Android system, and he also said the company is looking into using it, either with an Eee PC or the Eee Phone, with a number of companies already looking at importing the Android interface to the Eee PC model._

http://www.techradar.com/news/mobil...e-phone-with-android--498644?src=rss&attr=all


----------



## fractionMan (Jan 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> T Mobile looks like they've discounted the G1 again, either it's really not selling or they're trying to shift stock because a newer model is coming real soon...



More info?

I'm thinking of getting one of these but because I'm a retard I can't decide on white or black.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> More info?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one of these but because I'm a retard I can't decide on white or black.



Sorry, can't help saw it as a web banner ad, clicked on it to have a read but never saved the link...


----------



## fractionMan (Jan 8, 2009)

Could I use the g1 as a modem for my laptop?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2009)

Video of the Agora Android phone: http://androidguys.com/?p=3283

Seems to run smoothly although Android looks like it works better on bigger screens...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> Could I use the g1 as a modem for my laptop?



Um...I *think* there's an app or soon to be an app that does this but not 100% sure. Our resident G1 owners should be along at some point to give their insight and experience.


----------



## fractionMan (Jan 8, 2009)

If I don't get the g1 how long will I have to wait for a different android phone then?


----------



## editor (Jan 8, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> If I don't get the g1 how long will I have to wait for a different android phone then?


There *might* be a G2 announced very, very shortly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2009)

What the Ed said, rumours are anything from end of this month to mid April last I looked...


----------



## editor (Jan 8, 2009)

Skype for Android coming:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/156654/Skype.html


Nice.


----------



## g force (Jan 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Video of the Agora Android phone: http://androidguys.com/?p=3283
> 
> Seems to run smoothly although Android looks like it works better on bigger screens...



Aye that's the one I had a play on for about 5 mins. Then I went back to my BB and TBH it felt all wrong...I wanted the Agora. Although if it comes to the UK i fear it will be pricey.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> More info?
> 
> I'm thinking of getting one of these but because I'm a retard I can't decide on white or black.



Don't get a white one - they look a lot nicer (IMHO of course) but there is a serious flaw with the backlight on the keyboard.  The keys are white, and the backlight is, errr, white, so when it comes on you in certain light levels you can't see anything.  The black G1 dosen't have this problem.


Guess which one I got


----------



## fractionMan (Jan 8, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Don't get a white one - they look a lot nicer (IMHO of course) but there is a serious flaw with the backlight on the keyboard.  The keys are white, and the backlight is, errr, white, so when it comes on you in certain light levels you can't see anything.  The black G1 dosen't have this problem.
> 
> 
> Guess which one I got



But the white one looks cooler, right?

Form over function, who me?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Um...I *think* there's an app or soon to be an app that does this but not 100% sure. Our resident G1 owners should be along at some point to give their insight and experience.



AFAIK (I keep meaning to find out  ) there's an app available, but not from the Market, so it involves a bit of faffing to get it running.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> But the white one looks cooler, right?
> 
> Form over function, who me?



Yeah, I went with the white one coz it looks a lot better.  I didn't know about the keyboard issue at the time though, and if I could go back....


...I'd probably still get a white one  


Bees, making mistakes so YOU don't have to


----------



## fractionMan (Jan 8, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> AFAIK (I keep meaning to find out  ) there's an app available, but not from the Market, so it involves a bit of faffing to get it running.



It looks like a bit of a faff, but nothing too bad.

Guide here:

http://graha.ms/androidproxy/


----------



## Sunray (Jan 9, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The G1 has:
> 
> A brilliant touchscreen
> 3G / HSPDA
> ...



If you wanted to know what I was looking for from an Android handset, take a look at the new Palm Pre.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I think the problem is that its a ground breaking OS, the 1st open source OS of it type.  Thats very exciting news for a lot of people.   I and the rest of the community wanted it to run on the most cutting edge hardware available but that's not what we got.  Its not even the best device HTC make? For Android to be a success, people have to want it, and a lacklustre phone does not do that.  There is a good probability the people who would have bought it, already had a better phone.
> 
> I've no doubt your happy with that phone, nobody saying it doesn't work, or its particularly bad.  But it's disappointed many many people, its not surprising that there is a lot of negativity.  It could and should have been so much better.  That Edge vapourware article the Ed posted, has Android hardware as one of their Vapourwares of 2008,
> 
> ...



Wrote this a while ago.   

Android, primarily down to tumble weed blowing through the Android hardware shop, is now under some pressure IMO.  This can be revived by releasing some better phones and trying to dominate by sheer weight of numbers. 

What I find utterly baffling though, is this

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/01/06/motorolas-surf-a3100-headlines-three-pack-of-new-phones/

Thats a really nice looking smart phone from Motorola, bit thick but what do you expect from Motorola?   Its baffling because Motorola have been in the Android partners list since day one, but thats a WM6 phone with a stylus, in 2009?  

Motorola have yet to release a phone with Android!  Are those initial manufactures storing up Android handsets for some Android blitz the press day?


----------



## editor (Jan 9, 2009)

I _never_ thought I'd be saying this, but the new Palm OS has stolen a real march on Android and the phone has just about everything - well, nearly - I want in a great-sized handset.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 9, 2009)

It does look pretty nice, is it out now, or have they given a release date?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2009)

it'll be at least 6 months


----------



## newbie (Jan 9, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> AFAIK (I keep meaning to find out  ) there's an app available, but not from the Market, so it involves a bit of faffing to get it running.



gosh, I'd assumed that was part of the core capability.  I guess we all use these things differently, but for me the interwiggle on a tiny screen is occasionally handy but not really massively important but the ability to get it on a proper size netbook or laptop from anywhere is a dream come true.  Tethering is among the most important functions of a smartphone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 9, 2009)

editor said:


> I _never_ thought I'd be saying this, but the new Palm OS has stolen a real march on Android and the phone has just about everything - well, nearly - I want in a great-sized handset.



It's so true. The big thing for me is Palm's approach is more integrated and coherent without being too Apple control freakery, they've got the balance just right going by the reports!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 9, 2009)

Crispy said:


> it'll be at least 6 months



It'll be interesting to see how many Android handsets come out in that time, if there still isn't much choice then Google could have a serious competitor snapping at their heels...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 9, 2009)

newbie said:


> gosh, I'd assumed that was part of the core capability.  I guess we all use these things differently, but for me the interwiggle on a tiny screen is occasionally handy but not really massively important but the ability to get it on a proper size netbook or laptop from anywhere is a dream come true.  Tethering is among the most important functions of a smartphone.



It's kinda opposite for me - most places where I'm using my laptop there will be wifi available.  It's when I'm out and about without my laptop on me that I'll use my phone.


----------



## newbie (Jan 9, 2009)

Apart from avoiding all the security issues on other peoples wifi I've been finding the netbook useful in the car, both parked up and for whoever is in the passenger seat (I think it was a different thread but the Google Mymaps Wikipedia overlay is very cool when driving, for the 'what the hell is _that?_' conversations.  That's why I want it on my phone); also for camping, also when visiting my parents, and so on.  There are plenty of places. Browsing on a phone is just too much like hard work to be more than a useful gimmick.

ps my next generation netbook will have 3G built in, and maybe by then they'll have sorted out the latency issues and made the costs more sensible.  But in the here and now...


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 9, 2009)

newbie said:


> Apart from avoiding all the security issues on other peoples wifi I've been finding the netbook useful in the car, both parked up and for whoever is in the passenger seat (I think it was a different thread but the Google Mymaps Wikipedia overlay is very cool when driving, for the 'what the hell is _that?_' conversations.  That's why I want it on my phone); also for camping, also when visiting my parents, and so on.  Browsing on a phone is just too much like hard work to be more than a useful gimmick.



The ultimate dogging companion


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 9, 2009)

Had a look through Stuff magazine today, which I haven't really read before, and they gave the G1 a pretty bad review, all things considered. I didn't have time to read the whole thing as it was just while I was waiting for a friend in Asda, but do they have a point or not? From what I've read, their gripes were trivial and often a matter of opinion anyway (camera isn't top notch, no video recording, some playback issues, unpleasant aesthetics).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 9, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> camera isn't top notch, no video recording, some playback issues, unpleasant aesthetics



The camera is good, the software for it out of the box is rubbish.  There's an app called SnapPhoto available on the Market that sorts this.

Video recording is coming with the "Cupcake" update, due this month.

Aesthetics is a matter of taste I guess, I like it 



Another gripe I had that has gone away is that of battery life.  As far as I can tell, the meter out of the box is completely out of wack.  It will tell you you need to recharge after less than a day, which understandably led to poor reviews.

However, a couple of months later it seems to have calibrated itself a lot better - with just light use (a few calls, some txts, using it like a "normal" phone) I can get 2 and a half days.  With light web use on 3G/Wifi I can often get two days use.  The things that hammers it though is GPS.  Have that turned on all the time and I'm lucky to get a day.

All the above is with the screen set to just 15% brightness - even at such a low value it's still extremely bright and clear, and is easily readable in bright sunlight.  Anything above 50% is way to bright to use IMO, it's like having a touch shining at your face


----------



## editor (Jan 9, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Had a look through Stuff magazine today, which I haven't really read before, and they gave the G1 a pretty bad review, all things considered. I didn't have time to read the whole thing as it was just while I was waiting for a friend in Asda, but do they have a point or not? From what I've read, their gripes were trivial and often a matter of opinion anyway (camera isn't top notch, no video recording, some playback issues, unpleasant aesthetics).


Stuff can do  some pretty poor reviews though. Their compact camera review was woefully ill informed.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 9, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The camera is good, the software for it out of the box is rubbish.  There's an app called SnapPhoto available on the Market that sorts this.
> 
> Video recording is coming with the "Cupcake" update, due this month.
> 
> ...



Well that's two of their concerns immediately dismissed then, so I guess they should've done their research. Won't be buying that magazine.

As for the looks, I like it too 

The battery is removable isn't it? How much do spares go for?


----------



## Sunray (Jan 9, 2009)

Oh dear.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/319/1050319/a-second-android-phone-tips-up


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/319/1050319/a-second-android-phone-tips-up



Jesus that's been beaten relentlessly with an ugly stick. Google seriously needs some good looking phones out and soon.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 9, 2009)

Its not that bad. Bit rounded perhaps, but still looks smartphone like.


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2009)

Universal Music boss has commented that Android users are downloading a "ton of music over the air."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10140244-93.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Universal Music boss has commented that Android users are downloading a "ton of music over the air."



I haven't even worked out how to do that yet


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 12, 2009)

Takephone app for Android: http://shsh.com/wordpress/?p=143

That boy Shimon sure is busy!


----------



## paolo (Jan 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Universal Music boss has commented that Android users are downloading a "ton of music over the air."
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10140244-93.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20



It's an interesting interview in that he's refreshingly frank about alot the issues the industry has had with 'net music.

Thanks for posting it. But I'd say your pull quote is meaningless though. 'Music boss says "we're doing great!" in unspecific terms'.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Thanks for posting it. But I'd say your pull quote is meaningless though. 'Music boss says "we're doing great!" in unspecific terms'.


It was quick post and it was the 'pull quote' from the article and the site that linked to it.


----------



## paolo (Jan 13, 2009)

editor said:


> It was quick post and it was the 'pull quote' from the article and the site that linked to it.



Fair dos.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 13, 2009)

A nitpick: The web does not have round corners.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2009)

Is this the G2?






What's the deal with keeping the 'lip'?


----------



## g force (Jan 14, 2009)

Covers the contour of a thumb...a little? Not exactly 'insider' info but the HTC boys have been  contacting our IT team as our rolling RIM enterprise licence ends in June and they claimed to have "at least 2 options" for an Android-based phone by that time...could be bravado of course.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's the deal with keeping the 'lip'?



I quite like it on my G1, it helps the phone sit quite nicely in your hand when you make a call.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2009)

It didn't make any discernible difference when I held it...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It didn't make any discernible difference when I held it...



Then either you or I have odd hands 

We need a third opinion to determine which one of us it is


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Then either you or I have odd hands
> 
> We need a third opinion to determine which one of us it is



It's you man, I'm telling you.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm looking into getting a G1. Anyone here have one that can give us the heads up into whether it's any good?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm looking into getting a G1. Anyone here have one that can give us the heads up into whether it's any good?



I've got one, it's the best gadget I've ever owned 

Do you use Googlemail/Google Calender?


----------



## Sunray (Jan 15, 2009)

This isn't good news for the Android platform.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7829990.stm

Blamed the lack of sales on 'falling demand'. Because Motorola make truly shit phones and their customers might have finally realised.


----------



## g force (Jan 15, 2009)

True...don't think i;ve seen a Motorola handset I liked.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

g force said:


> True...don't think i;ve seen a Motorola handset I liked.



I was unfortunate enough to own one years ago, it was without any redeeming features whatsoever.  Awful, awful crap.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm looking into getting a G1. Anyone here have one that can give us the heads up into whether it's any good?


It's a great handset with two caveats:
1. There may be a G2 coming soon
2. The Palm Pre looks a _whole load_ better and that's coming 'soon' (1-6 months).

I'm waiting for the Palm Pre.


----------



## g force (Jan 15, 2009)

Yep i'd say if you can holdd off on a purchase for 6 months and see whats around because the market is shifting rapidly


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2009)

Of course you can end up waiting around forever and miss out on some excellent current handsets.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 15, 2009)

I had one of these about 5 years ago, it was ace for the time, full on touch screen phone before they were common and it ran symbian. It broke though, but I'm sure that was just me being clumsy.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

editor said:


> 2. The Palm Pre looks a _whole load_ better and that's coming 'soon' (1-6 months)



6 months or more I'd wager.  

Still, Palm surprised us all with it, maybe they'll do the same with their roll out speed


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 6 months or more I'd wager.


They've said it'll arrive in the first half of 2009.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

editor said:


> They've said it'll arrive in the first half of 2009.



I'll buy you a pint if it's here before June


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm looking into getting a G1. Anyone here have one that can give us the heads up into whether it's any good?



If you can I'd seriously wait. The Pre will be out by June and the word is is pwns the G1 (and Android generally) and the mighty iPhone...if you can't wait 6 months I'd still give it a few weeks, maybe couple months because the G2 is coming soon apparently...


----------



## g force (Jan 15, 2009)

No it is coming, definitely....either that or HTC or whoring new handsets that run something else...


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 15, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've got one, it's the best gadget I've ever owned
> 
> Do you use Googlemail/Google Calender?



Of course I use Gmail!  What is it like for web browsing?



Kid_Eternity said:


> If you can I'd seriously wait. The Pre will be out by June and the word is is pwns the G1 (and Android generally) and the mighty iPhone...if you can't wait 6 months I'd still give it a few weeks, maybe couple months because the G2 is coming soon apparently...



I need to upgrade right now - that's need, not want. Plus I'm already with T-mobile.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> Of course I use Gmail!  What is it like for web browsing?



If you use Gmail it's a no brainer going with Android, the integration is (as you would expect) perfect.  All you do is enter you Google ID the very first time you turn the phone on, and from that point onwards it just works.  No need for any sort of manual synch or connecting to a PC.

The browser is great, only the iPhone can rival it at the moment IMO.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 15, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If you use Gmail it's a no brainer going with Android, the integration is (as you would expect) perfect.  All you do is enter you Google ID the very first time you turn the phone on, and from that point onwards it just works.  No need for any sort of manual synch or connecting to a PC.
> 
> The browser is great, only the iPhone can rival it at the moment IMO.



Do you have to piss around opening the qwerty keyboard every time you want to respond to an sms text? I can imagine that getting on my tits a bit.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> Do you have to piss around opening the qwerty keyboard every time you want to respond to an sms text? I can imagine that getting on my tits a bit.



As of now - yes.  This is being sorted with the "Cupcake" OS update, due, errr, now.  Ish.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 15, 2009)

Ok cheers for that. 

I'm just watching some youtube reviews and it looks well cool. Probably would suit me more than the iphone as I don't really use phones to listen to music.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> Of course I use Gmail!  What is it like for web browsing?
> 
> 
> 
> I need to upgrade right now - that's need, not want. Plus I'm already with T-mobile.



Oh right, well if you can't wait for the G2 and don't mind the G1 form factor then I'd say go for it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 15, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh right, well if you can't wait for the G2 and don't mind the G1 form factor then I'd say go for it.



Form factor...?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> Form factor...?



The look of the phone, and the feel and experience of using the phone.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 15, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The look of the phone, and the feel and experience of using the phone.



Looks alright to me. Obviously the G2 will be better but I'm desperate to upgrade... My N70 has stopped charging so I'm using another Nokia to charge the battery for it and it's a right pain in the whatsit.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

I'd go for it then, just don't get a white one.


----------



## Citizen66 (Jan 15, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd go for it then, just don't get a white one.



If I did get a white one it'd soon be black! 

I'm just looking at google calander now which I haven't really paid much attention to before. Is email or pop-up alert the best with the phone? This is a good thing as I remember sod all such as people's birthdays etc.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> If I did get a white one it'd soon be black!
> 
> I'm just looking at google calander now which I haven't really paid much attention to before. Is email or pop-up alert the best with the phone? This is a good thing as I remember sod all such as people's birthdays etc.



I dunno, as I never use alerts


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> Looks alright to me. Obviously the G2 will be better but I'm desperate to upgrade... My N70 has stopped charging so I'm using another Nokia to charge the battery for it and it's a right pain in the whatsit.



LOL! Fair enough, then my next suggestion would be to keep your eye's pealed because there's a pretty decent G1 deals going on at the mo. Buy online too, one deal had a free 8 gig micro sd card.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! Fair enough, then my next suggestion would be to keep your eye's pealed because there's a pretty decent G1 deals going on at the mo. Buy online too, one deal had a free 8 gig micro sd card.



I got the phone for free and a reduction in my monthly bill, and that was just a month or so after the phone had been released, simply by ringing T-Mobile and asking


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I got the phone for free and a reduction in my monthly bill, and that was just a month or so after the phone had been released, simply by ringing T-Mobile and asking



Be fair, you know full well the Ed, a customer of over 10 years, didn't have it that easy.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 15, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Be fair, you know full well the Ed, a customer of over 10 years, didn't have it that easy.



Yeah, and I still can't work out why.  I know I'm not the only one to get such a good deal simply by asking...


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 15, 2009)

As I've said before, my experiences are very similar to Ed's.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2009)

Ooops! The Agora Android phone has been cancelled indefinitely because, err, they just realised the display was the wrong size, or some such bollocks.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10144208-94.html


----------



## Sunray (Jan 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Ooops! The Agora Android phone has been cancelled indefinitely because, err, they just realised the display was the wrong size, or some such bollocks.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10144208-94.html





This is still an issue that mobile OS's have yet to address. Screen size and applications.  The Palm and the iPhone only have a fixed screen size so developers don't have to worry if their app works on the screen or not.  Not true with Android, its multi platform but people are all writing for the G1 so its that or it'll prolly not work.

I think with the advent of much faster CPU and mobile graphics, the OS will at some point have to address this very real issue.  I can't think of a simple solution apart from making the UI vector grapics based.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> This is still an issue that mobile OS's have yet to address. Screen size and applications.  The Palm and the iPhone only have a fixed screen size so developers don't have to worry if their app works on the screen or not.  Not true with Android, its multi platform but people are all writing for the G1 so its that or it'll prolly not work.


The current Palm OS supports several screen resolutions...


----------



## Sunray (Jan 16, 2009)

Android supports many, thats not the issue.  If you design your app for 320x480 either orientation, how do you cope when your presented with 240x320.  An important button is obscured, or the space does now not fit all the data on a single page?  

An app can try to do it dynamically but that is a very hard to achieve and still look and function well.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Android supports many, thats not the issue.  If you design your app for 320x480 either orientation, how do you cope when your presented with 240x320.  An important button is obscured, or the space does now not fit all the data on a single page?


You do what Palm authors do, and offer your app in 160 x160, 340 x 320, 480 x 320 etc resolutions when installing.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 16, 2009)

Thats a very old tech way of working and is only sensible when the screen size are know in advance.  Surely it could figure it out for itself?

Does not solve the issue, makes the app take longer because you have to write a front end for each resolution. Android will support any screen size, then what do you do?  Its not an easily solvable problem.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2009)

Still no sign of Cupcake


----------



## Sunray (Jan 16, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Still no sign of Cupcake



Have a look on the android developer forums, I expect that will be full of talk on that subject.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats a very old tech way of working and is only sensible when the screen size are know in advance.  Surely it could figure it out for itself?


When you go to download an app you're prompted to download the version for your phone (e.g. Treo 600 or 650). It's not that difficult.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2009)

editor said:


> When you go to download an app you're prompted to download the version for your phone (e.g. Treo 600 or 650). It's not that difficult.



I see Sunrays point though - assuming Android takes off you're then asking developers to make an awful lot of versions.  Not impossible, but may put off some.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 16, 2009)

editor said:


> When you go to download an app you're prompted to download the version for your phone (e.g. Treo 600 or 650). It's not that difficult.



Yes it is unfortunately.  That fractures development from lots of positions.  

It lowers your target audience for your application unless you spend all that extra time making it work on all the different platforms, that work does nothing for the application and it requires repeating every time someone releases a phone.  If you don't want to do all that work, then you have to choose which phones your app will work on.  This can confuse and annoy the end user as they might buy it thinking it will work and it doesn't.  

All that can be solved by having a fixed screen size and input methods.  Microsoft have sort of done this with DirectX 10.   They removed software emulation of graphics features and insisted that it does a fixed set of features to be DX10 compliant.

I mentioned in one of my early posts on Android that I hoped that hardware differences didn't fracture the platform.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2009)

Cupcake is nearly go!





> *FACT* - There WILL be a G1 update shortly as it was INTENDED to be by mid-January so the next target is now by the end of January.
> 
> 
> *FACT* - T-Mobile will not just provide Cupcake elements to the G2 and leave the G1 behind.
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Jan 16, 2009)

Cupcake is the worst name for a software update ever.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Cupcake is the worst name for a software update ever.


Wha'?! Everyone likes cupcakes, especially when they're free!

And it's got be better than 'Snow leopard'!


----------



## Sunray (Jan 17, 2009)

editor said:


> And it's got be better than 'Snow leopard'!



I think i'll take the professional cool sounding snow leopard to the women institute's produced cupcake.


----------



## dweller (Jan 18, 2009)

woo hoo,
just upgraded to a G1 its being delivered tuesday
yes I know its all about the pre or whatever, 

I was on an old flext15 contract plus webnwalk which was 27.50 a month
Now I have to pay 29.36 plus voicemail
but I get much more flext credit £140 whereas before it was £60

I did the online upgrade and the G1 was gonna cost £35 to buy. 
So I phoned a number to make sure all the details were ok and that I was still gonna only pay 27.50 
cause it included a £5 reduction offer. 

anyway the guy sorted so I start a new contract instead of the upgrade at no upfront cost for phone. 

only thing I'm worried about is battery life which reports say is pretty cak.

e2a my old phone is the wonderful sony w810i which I'll keep for its small size form and great little camera.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jan 18, 2009)

dweller said:


> woo hoo,
> just upgraded to a G1 its being delivered tuesday
> yes I know its all about the pre or whatever,
> 
> ...



£140 credit for ~£30 a month? Flext 35 is £31.50pm a the minute and includes £200. Plus the phone is free, and that includes webnwalk and voicemail.


----------



## dweller (Jan 18, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> £140 credit for ~£30 a month? Flext 35 is £31.50pm a the minute and includes £200. Plus the phone is free, and that includes webnwalk and voicemail.



oh well who cares, 
I rarely used up my £60 credit anyhow

I was a bit peeved by the voicemail thing. 
what I'll be on is Flext30 I think 
I just spoke to a guy on the phone I didn't check very last detail 
 on the current website deals...

anyway its a gadget to play with and I'll be able to read some web content 
 without squinting at the tiny screen I currently have


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 18, 2009)

dweller said:


> only thing I'm worried about is battery life which reports say is pretty cak.



Make sure you set the screen brightness to something less than 20% and things get a hell of a lot better.


----------



## dweller (Jan 19, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Make sure you set the screen brightness to something less than 20% and things get a hell of a lot better.



thanks for the tip


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

This is claimed to be the new G2. No QWERTY and rather an ugly front.














http://androidcommunity.com/t-mobile-g2-by-htc-spotted-in-wild-no-qwerty-coming-may-20090121/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 21, 2009)

I like the shape, but those buttons are awful.

No qwerty is a surprise though.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm not impressed. No keyboard. No flash. Ugly. The Palm Pre pisses all over it and it'll be coming out around the same time.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 21, 2009)

Given a choice of the G1 and the G2 I think I'd go for a G1 because of the keyboard.  If they are going to have a virtual keyboard in the new MegaDude version of the software why ditch it?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 21, 2009)

Assuming that the above pic is real, it will be interesting to see if it's stuck with a portrait only screen, or if it will detect that you've turned it on its side and jump to landscape in an iPhone stylee.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

I really hope that this is some sort of awful preproduction model because it really is an awful, awful design that's going to set Android back miles. T Mobile/HTC  need to be knocking out really attractive models that - at the every least - come close to the iPhone for looks, ease of use and all round style.

This looks like some third rate Taiwan-sourced WM handset.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

This looks great fun:

"Travel website lastminute.com have released an app for the T-Mobile G1 that flags up nearby activities on a radar-style display.  nru (”near you”) takes advantage of the G1’s GPS and compass to work out where the user is, offering up a range of bars, restaurants, cinemas and cafés - among other things - that are geographically close."

Great low tech video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fMA7wAU5BH0


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> This looks great fun:
> 
> "Travel website lastminute.com have released an app for the T-Mobile G1 that flags up nearby activities on a radar-style display.  nru (”near you”) takes advantage of the G1’s GPS and compass to work out where the user is, offering up a range of bars, restaurants, cinemas and cafés - among other things - that are geographically close."
> 
> Great low tech video: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fMA7wAU5BH0



I downloaded this when I first saw it, it's a good idea, but suffers from a pretty crappy interface.  It's far easier to just search for stuff on GoogleMaps.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2009)

It's not there yet, but here's some cupcake screengrabs:















http://www.intomobile.com/2009/01/2...l-not-ready-for-public.html/android-cupcake6/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 23, 2009)

Some interesting things there, particularly the "display rotates from orientation" bit - that opens it up for phones with no physical keyboard.

Also looks like there's a built in notepad, which was a bad omission from the first version.

Latest "must have" app on the Market is the official Google Picasa one, which integrates Picasa uploads onto the "share" menu from within the camera/photos app.  I can now take a photo and upload it to my account with a single click 

Still waiting for GoogleDocs editing on the phone though...


----------



## subversplat (Jan 23, 2009)

I'm still waiting for this to come out on the Touch Diamond/Pro/HD


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2009)

subversplat said:


> I'm still waiting for this to come out on the Touch Diamond/Pro/HD



I really wonder why is there still only one handset?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 26, 2009)

Another cool app I can recommend - "Sticky".

This lets you put post-it style notes anywhere you want on the desktop, with 10 layers of notes available.  You can choose to have them all showing, or switch layers on and off as you wish.  It integrates with the notification draw, so adding a note is nice and easy (no need to start a program, just tap the icon on the draw), and notes can have timed alerts tagged to them


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm surprised at the slow rate of development too, to be honest.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 26, 2009)

I think if handsets were available from more networks it would help its sales. The iphone did manage to get people to switch, but not sure it has the same "wow" factor. However if an Android phone was an option at upgrade, its likely more people may have gone for it.


----------



## dweller (Jan 26, 2009)

mmm contemplating rooting  my g1 so i can do this

multi touch zoom browser, maps, photos for g1 video

and make it look like this





e2a by the way, even without all that stuff, I'm loving the phone
 I'm not a business user, more of a nerdy internet user so this phone totally suits me


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2009)

More Android cupcake pics. Looking good!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 27, 2009)

"Snake On A Phone" 


I want my cupcake now dammit!


----------



## dweller (Jan 27, 2009)

editor said:


> More Android cupcake pics. Looking good!




many apps already have the soft on screen keyboard including 
 chompSMS and Steel browser but to be honest I 
 can't seem to get used to them and prefer the hard keyboard. 

by the way my latest cool app is 
 a port from the iPhone called textonphone, 
a really nice ebook community app, yeah I could just pull out a real book 
 but I like the option if I'm travelling light. 

Also QypeRadar is brilliant for finding interesting places like art galleries and hidden small parks as well as pubs and cafes in your local vicinity...comes with user reviews.

I also second the "sticky" app mentioned earlier. 

music wise don't forget the excellent StreamFurious which has a bunch of top shoutcast stations ready loaded and you can add pls and other streaming mp3 urls from the browser like resonance fm and whatnot,...


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2009)

Here's a video walkthrough of Cupcake's underwhelming new features:
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/01/27/video-a-look-at-the-current-development-build-of-android/

The world globe is crap, keyboard looks fine - and there's emoticon support - and notepad is beyond basic.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 28, 2009)

editor said:


> Here's a video walkthrough of Cupcake's underwhelming new features:
> http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/01/27/video-a-look-at-the-current-development-build-of-android/
> 
> The world globe is crap, keyboard looks fine - and there's emoticon support - and notepad is beyond basic.



That notepad has been on the Market almost since day 1, it's very basic but does all I need it to for notes to myself and shopping lists etc.  There's a huge choice on the market if you need anything more advanced.

the soft keyboard will be a nice addition, other than that all they need to do is sort out GoogleDocs editing and it's pretty much my perfect phone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 29, 2009)

> We've been hearing for months now that both Android and the T-Mobile G1 hardware have some magical, top secret low-level support for multi-touch, but unless we can... you know, do something with it, it really isn't doing anyone any favors. That's where the lovely people in the ever-industrious dev community come into play, throwing together demos on their way to a full release that you -- yes, you -- can finally install on a G1 of your very own. It's still in the proof-of-concept phase, but the load does include a multi-touch version of Android's excellent browser, probably the single app that could use two fingertips more than any other. Needless to say, you should be installing this jazz at your own risk -- but considering the number of hoops you need to jump through to get it up and running (hint: you need to start by gaining root access), the whole process should be enough of a deterrent for the casual types who can't take a hiccup here and there. Video of the included multi-touch map browser app (among others) in action after the break.



Engadget 

This sounds like it would be more use.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 29, 2009)

This might be a useful app if you're a cyclist:

*RideTrac*

"RideTrac is a GPS-enabled Android application to track, record, and manage your bike rides (or whatever else you might want to track - hikes, runs, road trips, etc).  RideTrac is modeled on a GPS-powered bike computer"






- Integrates the Android MapView
- Easy control of all map functions
- One click jump to Google Street View
- Real-time time, speed, distance, elevation gain/loss statistics
- On-screen compass
- Super-fast track overlay rendering, even for very large trips
- Record rides and save in internal database
- Load/delete saved rides
- Export rides to sdcard in GPX format for simple import to desktop training packages or any standard GPS software package
- Customizable user preferences for units, colors, tracking sensitivity
- Backup & Restore internal database


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2009)

Looks great but it's going to crush the G1's already paltry battery life, no?

Still, at least you can pop in a spare, no bother.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 29, 2009)

editor said:


> Looks great but it's going to crush the G1's already paltry battery life, no?



I'm getting 2 days from my G1 now no problems.  The battery meter seems to take a month or two to settle down and give you an accurate reading, fuck knows why.  Turning the screen brightness down (it's waaaay too bright as standard, I have mine on just 15% and it's still bright and clear) seems to be the single biggest fix.

According to the author of the cycle app you can get upwards of 4 hours from it, which isn't ideal for long rides I grant you, but it's a start.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 1, 2009)

I've got one now and browsing the boards from the comfort of the pub. Any recommendations on apps bees? I've downloaded the strobe light one lol the boards look well cute on it!


----------



## dweller (Feb 1, 2009)

I rooted my phone and updated with the hacked install to get the multi 
 touch browser, the RC8 (uk) version also comes with 
 the VoiceDial app which only comes with G1s in America. 

The zooming is quite nice.

Looking forward to testing out some groovy themes, 
 but most of those are made for the USA firmware which I may have to install instead...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 2, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> I've got one now and browsing the boards from the comfort of the pub. Any recommendations on apps bees? I've downloaded the strobe light one lol the boards look well cute on it!



Im at work atm (posting from my G1 ) but will post up a list of stuff later


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 2, 2009)

My recommended apps:

Astrid - Nice to-do list/organiser

Bartender - Never be without instructions for making over 100 cocktails ever again.

Bubble - turns your G1 into a spirit level / inclinometer

Cab4Me Light - gives you a list of local taxi firm numbers, based on your current location.

Chord Chart - chord/fingering info for guitar players

Mapweasel - Up to date (from the highways agency) information on traffic problems

Picasa - Integrates picasa uploads into the "share" menus on the G1

Save MMS - until the cupcake update arrives, this is needed to save pictures from an MMS message onto the memory card.

ShopSavvy - Scan barcodes of stuff in a shop and it will look online/local to your current location for cheaper prices.  The best app for the G1 IMO.

SnapPhoto - turns the rubbish default camera software into something a lot better.  

TextEasy - Makes sending a txt to multiple recipients a lot easier.  Won't be needed after cupcake apparently.

The Weather Channel - Errrr, tells you the weather.  But in a very comprehensive way, and it even has video forecasts.


----------



## dweller (Feb 2, 2009)

mmm 
my phone looks a bit better now






thanks to 
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=473286

and
http://g1wallz.com/vinyl-music-g1-wallpapers/


----------



## editor (Feb 3, 2009)

This SMS app looks nice:
http://androidguys.com/?p=3535


----------



## g force (Feb 3, 2009)

Shame none of my friends as are attractive a "Olivia M"


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 3, 2009)

editor said:


> This SMS app looks nice:
> http://androidguys.com/?p=3535



Oooh, I'd missed that one, have just installed, cheers


----------



## Sunray (Feb 3, 2009)

editor said:


> This SMS app looks nice:
> http://androidguys.com/?p=3535



Apart from the picture, direct rip from the iPhone.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 3, 2009)

Oh come on, that design is completely generic


----------



## editor (Feb 3, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Apart from the picture, direct rip from the iPhone.


Don't be ridiculous.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 3, 2009)

editor said:


> Don't be ridiculous.



In what way is that comment ridiculous? Popping up that message box when you get a message is exactly what the iPhone does, with those buttons.  It even extends to showing missed calls and multiple texts.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 3, 2009)

Well, I've had a few txts since I installed it, it works really well, a definite improvement on the standard system


----------



## editor (Feb 3, 2009)

Sunray said:


> In what way is that comment ridiculous? Popping up that message box when you get a message is exactly what the iPhone does, with those buttons.  It even extends to showing missed calls and multiple texts.


Not much different to this really (except this old Palm app has better functionality)


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 5, 2009)

cheers for the recommendations bees. im getting a lot less work done now i can browse the boards with my phone. not getting close to a full days battery life though and ive got brightness on its lowest level.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2009)

Citizen66 said:


> cheers for the recommendations bees. im getting a lot less work done now i can browse the boards with my phone. not getting close to a full days battery life though and ive got brightness on its lowest level.



There seems to be an odd quirk with the battery meter, it seems to be over cautious at first, but slowly becomes more accurate. For the first couple of weeks i had mine it kept telling me to charge before a day had passed, but now i can get almost two full days, even with fairly heavy use. Try ignoring it telling you to charge and see how long it lasts. Also, make sure GPS is turned off unless you specifically need it for an app. The location finding from the cell masts is often all you need.


----------



## paolo (Feb 5, 2009)

bees... Is there a control panel type thing that gives a duration for Usage since last fully charged? If so, might be worth quoting what kind of times you are getting.


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 5, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There seems to be an odd quirk with the battery meter, it seems to be over cautious at first, but slowly becomes more accurate. For the first couple of weeks i had mine it kept telling me to charge before a day had passed, but now i can get almost two full days, even with fairly heavy use. Try ignoring it telling you to charge and see how long it lasts. Also, make sure GPS is turned off unless you specifically need it for an app. The location finding from the cell masts is often all you need.



i had been ignoring it and eventually it shuts down. the t-mobile guy who sold me was going on about managing wireless. i cant remember if he said its wireless or the phone network which uses the nost battery. ive been exclusively using the mobile network sao maybe its that...


----------



## SK. (Feb 5, 2009)

The phone network uses the most battery as it continuously searches for the best reception especially between 2G and 3G my battery gets cained at home due to being in a weaker signal area but whereby wireless signal is stable it uses less battery.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> bees... Is there a control panel type thing that gives a duration for Usage since last fully charged? If so, might be worth quoting what kind of times you are getting.



There is, I'll run it down to nothing and see what it says


----------



## Citizen66 (Feb 5, 2009)

I've switched mine to just search for 2G rather than both 2G and 3G as it was. Apparently that could save battery time so I'll see how it pans out.


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2009)

Get yer multitouch here!






http://androidcommunity.com/jkv141-...ch-auto-rotate-and-all-rc33-goodies-20090206/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2009)

editor said:


> Get yer multitouch here!
> 
> http://androidcommunity.com/jkv141-...ch-auto-rotate-and-all-rc33-goodies-20090206/



<taps foot impatiently>

Looks like that isn't the full "cupcake" update though, it's all a bit confusing tbh.  T-Mobile could do with being a bit more open about what we're getting, and when.  Having to dig this stuff up yourself on the internet is a bit annoying...


----------



## dweller (Feb 6, 2009)

cheers ed, 
the multitouch and autorotate were available on the previous update, 
 this new release  takes rooted g1 users up to the new firmware R33 which includes the new spyonyourfriends google latitude map thingy
 plus some other bits and bobs.


----------



## paolo (Feb 6, 2009)

What do they mean "adding multitouch"?

Is it an OS level thing, that apps can then take advantage of with an upgrade? And are any native apps upgraded to offer it?

*goes off to Google*


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2009)

dweller said:


> cheers ed,
> the multitouch and autorotate were available on the *previous update*,
> this new release  takes rooted g1 users up to the new firmware R33 which includes the new spyonyourfriends google latitude map thingy
> plus some other bits and bobs.



Eh?  What previous update?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2009)

And what does "rooted" mean?


----------



## dweller (Feb 8, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> And what does "rooted" mean?



the multi-touch ed refers to is NOT part of the 
 official t-mobile update which has been sent to G1 phones in the 
 united states this week. 

the multi-touch ability it is part of a hacked release. 
these unofficial releases cannot be put on your 
 normal G1 phone because you do not have the permission. 

To gain permission to do these updates we need what is 
 known as "root" it's a linux thing sort of like administrators 
 rights in windows. 
with root you can be a Super User and do things to your phone. 

once you've followed some steps you become "rooted" and can
 try out all the hacked versions of g1 firmware and also add themes 
 to your phone.

its all explained better here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442480

If you like fiddling with tech things it's worth having.
If you are scared of breaking things and often need someone 
 tech savvy to help with your computer problems then it's probably best avoided.


----------



## paolo (Feb 8, 2009)

Interesting. So if the hack needs RC29 or earlier, does that mean that RC30+ is anti-jailbreak? (There was a story about Google trying to make it non-hackable, awhile back.)


----------



## dweller (Feb 8, 2009)

yeah all the later versions after rc29 (usa) and rc7 (uk) do not allow root access, 
however you can downgrade to these to get root and then upgrade again to the 
 hacked updates which maintain root,


----------



## Sunray (Feb 9, 2009)

editor said:


> Get yer multitouch here!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I find it interesting that Jailbreaking your iPhone for additional functionality is considered a bad thing, yet doing exactly the same for the G1 is the way to go?

Make up your mind.


----------



## editor (Feb 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I find it interesting that Jailbreaking your iPhone for additional functionality is considered a bad thing, yet doing exactly the same for the G1 is the way to go?


I don't recall Google threatening to intentionally bork the phone. And this isn't about blocking certain apps unilaterally deemed 'inappropriate' by the hardware company either - it's about going in deep to hack the hardware with untested technologies, which is an entirely different thing.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 9, 2009)

editor said:


> I don't recall Google threatening to intentionally bork the phone. And this isn't about blocking certain apps unilaterally deemed 'inappropriate' by the hardware company either - it's about going in deep to hack the hardware with untested technologies, which is an entirely different thing.



On that front, no.  What HTC did with that touch screen is buy the cheaper version which is identical to the more expensive multi touch version just different firmware.

What that firmware does is to unlock it from T-Mobile and replace the single touch firmware with the multi-touch version, breaking the license.  This will be looked upon quite dimly by the manufacturer and can have unexpected repercussions. 

Here is an example of what can happen. I own one of these 7.1 X-fi soundcards.  Do you remember the Creative Vista sound card issue that some guy fixed for them?



> Open Letters - 06.18.2008
> 
> Registration System Explained
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Feb 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> What that firmware does is to unlock it from T-Mobile and replace the single touch firmware with the multi-touch version, breaking the license.  This will be looked upon quite dimly by the manufacturer and can have unexpected repercussions.


I really don't think what's happening with a tiny band of Android hackers is comparable with Apple's power-mad approach. 

Anyone can write an Android app and there's no risk of people having their phones intentionally borked or warranties broken just because they install an application that was banned just because it duplicated the functionality of the manufacturer's software.

I'm not seeing the relevance of the soundcard story, sorry.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 11, 2009)

Someone I recognise making an android device.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/913/1050913/archos-releases-android-phone


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2009)

Behold! A rejigged G1 for the Spanish market:







Nice, innit?

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/12/htc-dream-coming-to-spain-via-telefonica-gets-a-facelift/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 12, 2009)

Hard to tell it doesn't look real but a artist rendition...


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2009)

Ooh, I like this:



> Google on Thursday released an application called My Tracks that turns the T-Mobile G1 Android phone into a full-fledged GPS receiver.
> The free software can record tracks showing where you've been, display them on a map, show elevation gains and losses, and share data with various online services.
> 
> As a geography buff, I have to confess that this one of the first applications that actually got me excited. I carry a Garmin standalone GPS device so I can geotag my photos and keep track of my trips, but My Tracks one-ups it in several ways.
> ...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 13, 2009)

Sounds good. It would be nice if they would do one which would read memory map files.


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Sounds good. It would be nice if they would do one which would read memory map files.


Well, you got to pay for that. And have a Windows Mobile machine.

*shudder


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Behold! A rejigged G1 for the Spanish market:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's errr, pretty much exactly the same as mine


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Well, you got to pay for that. And have a Windows Mobile machine.
> 
> *shudder



I know, but it would be nice to see it on more platforms or for someone to create a map viewer, like Open Office will open Word files.


----------



## SK. (Feb 14, 2009)

It's the original HTC dream which the G1 was based on and meant to be but T Mobile asked for a few slight changes which seemed pointless.  Bet you can't see the keys in daylight on that one either.

Just wanted to mention an application in the market called Discover.  Browse and manage your files on your G1 via the pc using your wifi connection.

Works bloody well and you don't actually need any software on the pc to do it just your normal web browser.  I have transferred video/music/ pictures etc and it all worked well.  hopefully in the future you will be able to browse your pc as well but it's a bloody good start.


----------



## Daniel (Feb 15, 2009)

T-Mobile said:
			
		

> Thank you, your order has been successfully received!



  Hope it's as good as I'm expecting, otherwise I'm gona be upset for the next 18 months


----------



## dweller (Feb 15, 2009)

Daniel.x3h said:


> Hope it's as good as I'm expecting, otherwise I'm gona be upset for the next 18 months



Well seeing as you haven't started a thread called 
"what are the worst things about your G1"
 I make no apology for not saying this earlier but IMO the worst bit
 about G1 is the making calls/answering calls/ending calls functionality. 
 I thought it would be fine as there is a "call" and "end" button. 
But it feels like there is this annoying pause between pressing and getting a 
 response on the phone and screen. 
 Its not the end of the world, but it does annoy me.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2009)

dweller said:


> Well seeing as you haven't started a thread called
> "what are the worst things about your G1"
> I make no apology for not saying this earlier but IMO the worst bit
> about G1 is the making calls/answering calls/ending calls functionality.
> ...



Hmmm, can't say I've noticed this on mine...


----------



## Daniel (Feb 15, 2009)

dweller said:


> Well seeing as you haven't started a thread called
> "what are the worst things about your G1"
> I make no apology for not saying this earlier but IMO the worst bit
> about G1 is the making calls/answering calls/ending calls functionality.
> ...



So, what your telling me is that this _phone_ struggles to do basic _phone_ stuff?

That doesn't sound too promising


----------



## dweller (Feb 15, 2009)

don't worry, others disagree with me, 
 it'll be fine, I'm just getting used to it (maybe)
 oh yeah and the voice reception is really nice and clear when you are on 3g
 so it does do some things very well


----------



## jayeola (Feb 15, 2009)

has that "reboot in a text" bug been sorted?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2009)

jayeola said:


> has that "reboot in a text" bug been sorted?



Yes


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 16, 2009)

Looks like the G2 may be on vodaphone.....



> Y’all might know the next Android phone from HTC as the G2, but around these here parts we know it as the HTC Magic. An exclusive to Vodafone in Europe, the Magic is of debatable sexyness when compared to the T-Mobile G1 (and looks very Sony Ericsson, does it not?) and just happens to be one those phones that we’re just dying to know more about. But for now we can safely say that the Magic will feature HSPA, WiFi and GPS connectivity along with a 3.2 megapixel camera — sans flash — and of course come with a healthy dose of that sweet, sweet Cupcake that so many of you G1 users are clamoring for. Now we can’t say with absolute certainty when this thing will released or even announced, but since MWC is going on and with CTIA just around the corner, now is as good a time as ever to steal the spotlight from those damn pesky competitors. Oh, one more thing… don’t be too shocked if the name Magic is replaced with Pioneer. Just sayin’. Hit the jump for some more shots.



Link


----------



## Daniel (Feb 16, 2009)

Its coming tomorrow, and I'm rather excited 

Although I just clicked that link ^ ....Please tell me that isn't gona get released any time soon......please


----------



## Kanda (Feb 17, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Looks like the G2 may be on vodaphone.....
> 
> 
> 
> Link



Yup: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7894516.stm?lss

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/02/17/htc-magic-first-eyes-on/


----------



## cliche guevara (Feb 17, 2009)

Wow, wasn't epecting that so quickly. Any inkling of a release date? I may be tempted to wait for this rather than go for the G1.


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

Here it is:







Specs:


*Processor:* Qualcomm MSM7201a, 528MHz.
*Memory:* 512MB ROM, 192MB RAM.
*Dimensions:* 4.45 x 2.17 x 0.45-inches.
*Weight:* 4.18 ounces with battery.
*Network:* HSPA/WCDMA 900 / 2100MHz (no love for the States) with 2Mbps up, 7.2Mbps down; quad-band GSM / GPRS / EDGE 850 / 900 / 1800 / 1900MHz.
*Display:* 3.2-inch TFT-LCD HVGA 480x320
*Connectivity:* Bluetooth, WiFi, mini USB, and GPS
*Input:* Trackball with Enter button, Capacitive touchscreen with on-screen keyboard (both portrait and landscape)
It's getting a bit of a hmmmmm from me. It's way bigger than the Pre and has no keyboard.


----------



## cliche guevara (Feb 17, 2009)

editor said:


> It's getting a bit of a hmmmmm from me. It's way bigger than the Pre and has no keyboard.



Landscape touchscreen keys though, which is one of the things I was waiting for on the G1. For lighter users it looks good. And, you have to admit it's a looker.


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Landscape touchscreen keys though, which is one of the things I was waiting for on the G1. For lighter users it looks good. And, you have to admit it's a looker.


Touchscreen keys are way less fun to use than a proper hardware keyboard and it's _still_ got that fucking stupid non standard audio jack.


----------



## cliche guevara (Feb 17, 2009)

I'm not in a great position to judge the merits of phsyical vs touch keys, having never used a phone with a qwerty keyboard, but the thing that put me off the G1 slightly was having to snap the keyboard out every time I wanted to type a quick reply to a text. In that situation, touch keys would be much better imo. If you're a heavy user, sending a lot of emails, then a physical keyboard probably would be better. As for the audio jack, I've always got my ipod on me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 17, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Wow, wasn't epecting that so quickly. Any inkling of a release date? I may be tempted to wait for this rather than go for the G1.



The G2 has been strongly rumoured to appear by the end of Feb for some time...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 17, 2009)

That aside, now Vodafone have their touch screen champion after the crap they went through with the Blackberry Storm...wonder what T Mobile will go for next?


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> In that situation, touch keys would be much better imo. If you're a heavy user, sending a lot of emails, then a physical keyboard probably would be better.


Absolutely. Onscreen is fine for quick texts but if you've got some lengthy emails to write you'll soon be missing a proper keyboard.

I have to say I'm disappointed with this handset. It's still miles better than most of the competition mind, but it doesn't seem much of an upgrade.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Absolutely. Onscreen is fine for quick texts but if you've got some lengthy emails to write you'll soon be missing a proper keyboard.
> 
> I have to say I'm disappointed with this handset. It's still miles better than most of the competition mind, but it doesn't seem much of an upgrade.



Yeah it's nice looking but in some ways this is the DS lite to the DS Phat that was the G1...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 17, 2009)

No physical keyboard = fail


----------



## Sunray (Feb 17, 2009)

Had a go on a G1 for the 1st time on Sunday

2 things struck me, nice screen but the text is using some form of Anti-aliasing.  Unfortunately it makes it unnecessarily harder to read.
Those small keyboards are just too twee for me.  I can really type so fast with my virtual keyboard that having to physically press diddy keys would slow me down.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> nice screen but the text is using some form of Anti-aliasing.  Unfortunately it makes it unnecessarily harder to read.



I've no idea what this means, but I'll take your word for it   Can't say I have any problems reading stuff though, and my eyes are fucked.




> Those small keyboards are just too twee for me.  I can really type so fast with my virtual keyboard that having to physically press diddy keys would slow me down.



It's what you're used to I guess.  Out of necessity (the sodding backlight problem on white G1s) I've had to learn to pretty much touch type with it, and I can rattle of stuff at a fair speed now.  The couple of times I've tried an iPhone I was all over the place.  

I'll be interested to try the virtual keyboard on the G1 to see how it compares, or at least I will be if T-Mobile ever pull their fucking finger out of their arse and release all the cupcake update stuff


----------



## paolo (Feb 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Had a go on a G1 for the 1st time on Sunday
> 
> 2 things struck me, nice screen but the text is using some form of Anti-aliasing.



Not following you there. The iPhone text is all antialiased.


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

Video of the new Android phone in action. And it has a widescreen keyboard.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/htc-magic-first-eyes-on/#continued

It's quite a nice looking phone.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 17, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Not following you there. The iPhone text is all antialiased.



Yeah but that seems to be working.

The android text seems broken, its got this shadow effect which just makes it harder to read.  Its not unreadable, just I was surprised by that.  Maybe making it a bit bigger would do it.


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Yeah but that seems to be working.
> 
> The android text seems broken, its got this shadow effect which just makes it harder to read.  Its not unreadable, just I was surprised by that.  Maybe making it a bit bigger would do it.


Looked every bit as clear as the iPhone's text to my eyes.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Video of the new Android phone in action. And it has a widescreen keyboard.
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/htc-magic-first-eyes-on/#continued
> 
> It's quite a nice looking phone.



It's a G1, with cupcake and no keyboard


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's a G1, with cupcake and no keyboard


And slimmer. And prettier.


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

More video action:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5154984/android-g2-hands-on-video-review-close-to-perfection


> HTC has got a very smooth phone, which feels great on your hands and in your pants' pockets. While it's sightly thicker than the iPhone, the narrower, rounded body, and weight makes it feel the same size. For sure, a lot less bulky than the G1, which looks like a brick next to this. And as you have seen in the shots, the final HTC Magic is quite pretty. Have no doubt: This thing alone will make many consumers put up with the less-than-ideal software keyboard.
> 
> Overall, the first feeling is that we got a potential winner here. If they can manage to make the software keyboard better, Apple will definitely have a formidable enemy in the Android G2.


----------



## Daniel (Feb 17, 2009)

I'm typing this onmy g1 aand not happy with what I'm reading

Why oh why do I have to find that out when I only just get my new phone


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

Daniel.x3h said:


> I'm typing this onmy g1 aand not happy with what I'm reading
> 
> Why oh why do I have to find that out when I only just get my new phone


It's more or less identical to your current phone but without a keyboard and a bit thinner.

I'd be chuffed with either phone.



> Overall, we love the phone -- it's pretty much exactly what keyboard-hating, touchscreen-addled folks (like this particular editor) have been waiting for in an Android phone, other than the ones hoping we'd see Android on a Touch Pro2, that is. HTC is keeping the look and feel of its Android devices distinct from its Windows Phone lineup, and that's looking like an increasingly good idea. We could use a bit more slim, and some of the other more advanced hardware features of those Windows Mobile-running brethren, but this is still a great phone for the time being. Unfortunately, it's only in Europe for now, and the lack of US 3G bands means it'll probably be in Europe for the foreseeable future, so folks stuck Stateside are currently out of luck. We await your next move, HTC.


http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/htc-magic-in-depth-hands-on-with-video/


----------



## cliche guevara (Feb 17, 2009)

> For sure, a lot less bulky than the G1, which looks like a brick next to this.



Anyone got a side by side pic so I can see the comparisson for myself?


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Anyone got a side by side pic so I can see the comparisson for myself?


AHEM! It was in my link.


----------



## cliche guevara (Feb 17, 2009)

Oh, I completely missed that. There was a side by side with the iphone on the video... Cheers Ed. It's quite a significant difference.


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

I still like the Android phones very much. If it hadn't been for the promise of the Palm Pre coming out, I would have bought one in a shot.


----------



## paolo (Feb 17, 2009)

editor said:


> AHEM! It was in my link.



The Pre is going to be thinner? With a keyboard? Gosh.


----------



## cliche guevara (Feb 17, 2009)

This will be out in April, according to pocket lint. That coincides perfectly with the end of my contract... I haven't checked out the Pre properly yet, but I assume that the G2 will be more suited to my use.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 17, 2009)

All very interesting but we are waiting for someone to release a Android phone that isn't HTC.


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> ... but I assume that the G2 will be more suited to my use.


How so?


----------



## dweller (Feb 17, 2009)

personally I still prefer hard keys for typing so am glad I have  a G1.

I hope the new software will also allow video recording on the G1 and that they won't just 
 try and sell the G2 on the fact that its a G1 with video.


----------



## dweller (Feb 17, 2009)

I can't stand the promo guy's voice in those videos !


----------



## cliche guevara (Feb 17, 2009)

editor said:


> How so?



Because Palm historically make products aimed at business/high end users, and I'm a casual user. Unless they're shifting their demographic, I assume their product will be better suited to those usrs.


----------



## paolo (Feb 17, 2009)

Everything I've seen so far suggest WebOS will be hands down winner for productivity/business type use. The 'merged views' stuff in particular.

And equally I've seen nothing to suggest it will have any winning capability for consumer/leisure stuff. Web rendering is a games non starter, and for media players/stores/convenience, Apple had had that sewn up for years.

I think, come shipment of the Pre, there really won't be a king phone (I.e. Even less so than now)


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> All very interesting but we are waiting for someone to release a Android phone that isn't HTC.


You won't have to wait much longer. Maybe. 





> While Acer unveiled its plan to launch a pair of Android phones this year via the slightly ancient pen-and-paper method, Samsung used an even trustier method: spoken word. According to _Reuters_, the company's head of product strategy Won-Pyo Hong affirmed that Sammy would sell "more than three" Android phones by the end of this year...
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/samsung-at-least-three-android-phones-and-a-limo-handset-in-200/





cliche guevara said:


> Because Palm historically make products aimed at business/high end users, and I'm a casual user. Unless they're shifting their demographic, I assume their product will be better suited to those usrs.


The Centro - which shifted by the bucketload - was rock-bottom priced for a smartphone and aimed at 'ordinary' users. 

I'm expecting the Pre to be priced somewhere comparable to the G1 (on launch).


----------



## Daniel (Feb 18, 2009)

I'm pretty impressed at the moment, only a few little gripes, like the protective case they give, I think its a bit too small for this huge chunk of awsumnus 

Also, the flip out bit feels a little cheap the way it wobbles about.

So small stupid things really 


That Palm Pre does look pretty good though...


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2009)

Hands on review of the G2:


> The first impression is one of weight, or lack thereof. The decision to strike off the QWERTY keyboard might have helped make it more svelte, and has certainly contributed to a thinner design, but it makes the whole thing feel a little lightweight.
> 
> However, we're sure that a lot of people will be enjoying the fact it could slip into your pocket unnoticed, and it certainly doesn't suffer from the fact it's been hitting the mobile phone gym to shed some weight.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2009)

And the lack of a keyboard is causing concern: 





> *We miss QWERTY*
> The only downside to the HTC Magic is the lack of QWERTY keyboard, and sadly, it doesn't seem to be anywhere near as accurate as Peter Chou's affirmation in the press conference would have you believe.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Daniel (Feb 19, 2009)

damn im a little disapointed with the battery, although i have used this thing to death today i thought it might last a little longer. on the last part of the battery life, but still got 3 hours before i get home to charge it. if it makes it till then ill be a happy guy


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 19, 2009)

Daniel.x3h said:


> damn im a little disapointed with the battery, although i have used this thing to death today i thought it might last a little longer. on the last part of the battery life, but still got 3 hours before i get home to charge it. if it makes it till then ill be a happy guy



How bright have you got the screen?  If you turn it down to around 10-15 percent you get a significant improvement in battery life


----------



## dweller (Feb 19, 2009)

daniel, 
drain it til it switches off, 
turn it on again and let it drain that last bit of juice
then charge it overnight in a switched off state. 

do that to get battery calibrated
(i did it twice)

then install "power manager" app. 
loads of settings in it that help conserve battery life.

"toggle settings" app is also good, i use it to toggle screen timeout

keep the phone on 2g and with gps switched off until you need it.

these tips helped me


----------



## dweller (Feb 19, 2009)

Daniel.x3h said:


> I'm pretty impressed at the moment, only a few little gripes, like the protective case they give, I think its a bit too small for this huge chunk of awsumnus
> 
> Also, the flip out bit feels a little cheap the way it wobbles about.
> 
> ...



yeah I know the pre and the iphone seem supercool, 
but I still like the G1 even though it may be destined to be the
 dreamcast of the phone world


----------



## jayeola (Feb 19, 2009)

Grrr - and I have just got locked into a contract with a Nokia e71. Oh well, s'not so bad. Didn't get the Centro cos the OS was pfft.


----------



## Daniel (Feb 19, 2009)

It made it home, although I did chill a bit with, mised you comment dweller but will do that tomorrow.  Already installed that power maager app.

Cheers for the advise.

I'm still discovering things that annoyed me at first but now finding the things that make it easier and loving the phone more.

Although dunno if its to do with lack of battery, but ive noticed some button lag/non working buttons.


----------



## editor (Feb 20, 2009)

Paid apps are now appearing in Android market. Including a, err, clock for $0.99!

http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/19/paid-apps-appear-in-android-market/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 20, 2009)

editor said:


> Paid apps are now appearing in Android market. Including a, err, clock for $0.99!
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/19/paid-apps-appear-in-android-market/



Except T-Mobile UK still haven't sent out the OS update yet


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 20, 2009)

Speaking of apps, this is brilliant - "Discover"

Allows you to access the contents of your G1s memory card over any wireless network.  I've got it running whenever it's on my home network, so I can drag and drop any files I want onto my phone via my web browser.  No cables needed


----------



## Daniel (Feb 20, 2009)

The battery is definitely better then i thought, yesterday when I said about it was on the red, so I thought it was on its last legs, but today when trying to do that calibration thing, Its still going so Im having to pulls videos off of youtube to drain this mofo.


----------



## dweller (Feb 20, 2009)

Daniel.x3h said:


> The battery is definitely better then i thought, yesterday when I said about it was on the red, so I thought it was on its last legs, but today when trying to do that calibration thing, Its still going so Im having to pulls videos off of youtube to drain this mofo.



yep thats what I did.

you can see a few of the upcoming 
 paid apps here, its also a good way of browsing 
 thru the market

http://www.android.com/market/


----------



## Daniel (Feb 24, 2009)

Pft, this phones annoying me, losing 3g more then I thought, sometimes losing randomly when im at home.  I think the way to use it more broadly is to put on data roaming? (a complete guess, so forgive me if not true) but you have to pay for that.

Also, whenever I turn the phone on, it tells me my sim card is full.  When I go on the notification it just tells me that it could not access android sms.


----------



## dweller (Feb 24, 2009)

Daniel.x3h said:


> Pft, this phones annoying me, losing 3g more then I thought, sometimes losing randomly when im at home.  I think the way to use it more broadly is to put on data roaming? (a complete guess, so forgive me if not true) but you have to pay for that.
> 
> Also, whenever I turn the phone on, it tells me my sim card is full.  When I go on the notification it just tells me that it could not access android sms.



yup, it feels like a beta dev phone doesn't it?


----------



## Daniel (Feb 24, 2009)

Yea 

Also, you sometime get hugeeee button lag? Sometimes pressing 3 times before it recognises the damn command.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 24, 2009)

I've had none of the symptoms you describe...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 25, 2009)

Google are blocking access to paid-for apps if you have an unlocked developer phone which is going to upset some developers.

Seems a strange decision, treating your developers as pirates.


----------



## dweller (Feb 25, 2009)

Daniel.x3h said:


> Yea
> 
> Also, you sometime get hugeeee button lag? Sometimes pressing 3 times before it recognises the damn command.



don't set screen timeout too short as it will start to go to locked phone mode
 when yr in the middle of something, 
I've had unresponsive keys due to that


----------



## cliche guevara (Feb 27, 2009)

Anyone have pricing info or release dates for HTC magic yet?


----------



## dweller (Mar 2, 2009)

sweet, 
I just tethered my lappy to my g1 3g connection 
using this simple free app
http://code.google.com/p/android-wifi-tether/

you'll need to root yr g1 to use this app,


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Anyone have pricing info or release dates for HTC magic yet?


It's already on pre-order in UK and US, but there's no price or date.
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=179241
http://www.expansys-usa.com/p.aspx?i=179174&partner=Brighthand

*edit: so is the Palm Pre on that site, so I guess it's pretty meaningless. 
http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=179520


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2009)

LOL! I've joked that it wouldn't surprise me if you could pre-order the Playstation 4 on expansys...


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2009)

Nice new finance app for the Android if that's your thing:







http://androidcommunity.com/google-finance-for-android-app-released-20090304/


----------



## SK. (Mar 4, 2009)

Yup and only currently supports the US markets and no others


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 4, 2009)

Another good app - Gmote



> Gmote turns your Android phone into a remote control for your computer, allowing you to start and control movies and music at a distance.
> 
> It supports all of the standard remote control features such as play, pause, rewind, volume controls etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## SK. (Mar 4, 2009)

Yup that one is excellent especially for:

Recording a video of yourself on your webcam up close going boo and pulling a scary face, waiting for missus to be on the pc disappearing to another room opening up gmote locating said video and then hitting play.

sit back and listen for the scream


----------



## dweller (Mar 4, 2009)

SK. said:


> Yup that one is excellent especially for:
> 
> Recording a video of yourself on your webcam up close going boo and pulling a scary face, waiting for missus to be on the pc disappearing to another room opening up gmote locating said video and then hitting play.
> 
> sit back and listen for the scream



ha ha brilliant 

(and yeah its a good app, you can stream music on yr pc to your phone too)


----------



## Daniel (Mar 5, 2009)

my laptop broke so im lovin the fone now


----------



## Sunray (Mar 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! I've joked that it wouldn't surprise me if you could pre-order the Playstation 4 on expansys...



Yup, that company has the balls to list stuff that might not ever be released for pre order.


----------



## SK. (Mar 6, 2009)

One of the guys I have known for years works for them.  He even posts up about phones on twitter that are months away.  its total indoctrination


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2009)

Analysts at Informa Telecoms & Media reckon that sales of phones powered by Google’s Android OS may overtake Apple’s iPhone by 2012, mainly down to hardware developers using open-sourced software as a way to save dosh.


http://androidcommunity.com/android-os-to-trump-os-x-touch-20090306/


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 7, 2009)

editor said:


> Analysts at Informa Telecoms & Media reckon that sales of phones powered by Google’s Android OS may overtake Apple’s iPhone by 2012, mainly down to hardware developers using open-sourced software as a way to save dosh.
> 
> 
> http://androidcommunity.com/android-os-to-trump-os-x-touch-20090306/



I saw this earlier, and my immediate thought was that unless Apple bring out an updated iPhone then it'll be at the end of it's lifetime by then anyway. Mobile phones don't have particularly long shelf life, and even though the iPhones popularity is showing now signs of waning yet, 2012 is a long way off in phone tech terms.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 7, 2009)

Analysts aside, there are only 2 Android phones, both by the same company. None by the majors.  Its not doing very well so far.  Remember that the OS not costing anything makes very little difference to the final cost of the handset.

Apple have gone from nobody to very popular if all the iPhone carrying people on the tube are anything to go by, in 2 years making them stacks of cash.  Can you seriously imagine Apple not producing a iPhone 2, 3 and even 4 by 2012.  

I reckon that the next one is due June-August time, with the new Apple designed ARM cortex and perhaps nVidia Tegra graphics.  Perhaps even a Nano cheaper smaller version to go with it.  Watch Apple milk the iPhone harder than any other product they have ever made.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Apple have gone from nobody to very popular if all the iPhone carrying people on the tube are anything to go by, in 2 years making them stacks of cash.


Err... Apple hardly entered the phone market as 'nobodies' - they arrived with a near monopoly as the planet's biggest MP3 player/music vendor, with adding a phone to their iPods a logical step forward. 

They're also one of the richest tech companies on the planet with obscene amounts of cash in the bank and with an advertising budget that most rival companies could only dream of.

"Nobody." LOL.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Analysts aside, there are only 2 Android phones, both by the same company. None by the majors.  Its not doing very well so far.



Yep and the idiocy around the cupcake update doesn't bode well for the future. Seriously hoping Palm get the Pre out on time and it does really well otherwise Apple are gonna be laughing.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2009)

The RC9 update was pushed onto my phone this morning.

No idea what's changed mind, there doesn't seem to be anything new, certainly no soft keyboard


----------



## SK. (Mar 7, 2009)

Nothing major and as usual features missing that the Yanks got.  Market will now let you know when there are updates available for your installed stuff still can't see paid stuff but the update has the facility once Google get off their ass and recognise that there is a whole world outside the US, you can mark comments a spam etc Whoppdefuckingdoo lets do Google's job for them.  Apparently you can now save pictures sent via sms without the app from the market.

some minor bug fixes yadayda pointless update in all honesty and nothing to get excited about because we are in the UK and not American so we don't get jackshit


----------



## dweller (Mar 7, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Watch Apple milk the iPhone harder than any other product they have ever made.



I agree with this


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2009)

Apparently the Cupcake update is finally coming in April.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/11/cupcake-android-update-coming-to-g1-in-april/


----------



## Sunray (Mar 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Err... Apple hardly entered the phone market as 'nobodies' - they arrived with a near monopoly as the planet's biggest MP3 player/music vendor, with adding a phone to their iPods a logical step forward.
> 
> They're also one of the richest tech companies on the planet with obscene amounts of cash in the bank and with an advertising budget that most rival companies could only dream of.
> 
> "Nobody." LOL.



Pedant, you know exactly what I mean.  Nobody in terms of mobile phone market.  A market dominated by the likes of Nokia, Samsung, Sony etc  These people still dominate in terms of sales, but are probably green with envy at the 50% profit margin that Apple make and the $150 million they have raked in with the App store.

Shockingly none has produced a credible alternative, the G1 being the best stab so far.  Taken Palm to produce something that does.

I suggest having a go at the 5800 to see how far they have to go.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2009)

HTC have got "at least" three Android handsets coming right up this year!
http://www.pcworld.com/article/161355/htc_to_launch_at_least_three_google_phones_this_year.html


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 17, 2009)

This is apparently the first shot of Samsungs new Android phone.







Not very impressive features so far, and the picture is too crappy to see whether it's particularly good looking, although it appears to be a candy bar style phone, which means it's more likely to be mass market aimed than a smartphone.

http://androinica.com/2009/03/17/samsung-android-phone-spotted/


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 18, 2009)

Video of the HTC Magic/G2 in action here. It's in french, but the smoothness of the OS is the important thing. Looks lurverly!


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2009)

It does look nice. I like the Android interface and that zoom wheel looks interesting. The switch to landscape mode was nowhere as near as slick as the Pre/iPhone though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 26, 2009)

The introduction of paid apps on the Market has seen a load of really interesting looking stuff appear for Android, including a couple of full synch options for Exchange, and finally an Excel/Word document editor


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2009)

There's a handwriting recognition sysytm coming up:





http://androidcommunity.com/handwriting-android-style-20090327/

and this new Facebook app looks great:






http://androidcommunity.com/friendmobilizer-facebook-android-client-20090327/


----------



## fractionMan (Mar 27, 2009)

Bubblewrap 






When's the g2 out then?


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 27, 2009)

Still no release date confirmed as far as I can see. Vodafone have been saying "April" since it was announced.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 27, 2009)

editor said:


> and this new Facebook app looks great



That app is being slated on the market comments, there's one called "FBook" that's a lot better...


----------



## dweller (Mar 28, 2009)

I read somewhere that if you buy an app from the market you have 24hours to evaluate it then 
 you can uninstall it and get a refund. 

If at a later date that app is improved upon and you would like to buy it, you cannot do so because you rejected it earlier on. 

I haven't bought any paid apps yet but that seems like a bad policy.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 28, 2009)

dweller said:


> I read somewhere that if you buy an app from the market you have 24hours to evaluate it then
> you can uninstall it and get a refund.



This is true.



> If at a later date that app is improved upon and you would like to buy it, you cannot do so because you rejected it earlier on.



This isn't AFAIK.


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2009)

If you have to buy to try, that sucks.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 28, 2009)

editor said:


> If you have to buy to try, that sucks.



There's tons of free apps, and plenty with "lite" or time limited evaluation versions.  It's entirely down to the developers, nothing to do with the Market at all.


----------



## dweller (Mar 30, 2009)

Someone from xda forums has found a version of HTC magic firmware on the HTC servers and has made a version that can be ported to the G1. This is Android 1.5

It will give the G1 and new android phones virtual predictive keyboard, 
 video recording, better cut and paste ie from webpage text, faster web scrolling and some other feautures. 
Some people have already been putting this on their G1 phones to test it out but it's not really properly functional and so is really just experimental at the moment.
See screenshots here
http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f7/review-of-sapphire-magic-firmware-port-to-g1-15310/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 31, 2009)

Oh dear: Google Bans Tethering Application From Android Market


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 31, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh dear: Google Bans Tethering Application From Android Market



Sounds like the usual network operator bollocks getting in the way, rather than Google...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 31, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Sounds like the usual network operator bollocks getting in the way, rather than Google...



Yep this was exactly the argument that some of us where putting across months ago that it doesn't matter how open Android is the carriers can basically change how it works thus rendering it less open.


----------



## editor (Mar 31, 2009)

Android doesn't demand the same monopolistic grip on all app sales, so presumably Android users could simply download these tethering apps direct from the developers, no?


----------



## fractionMan (Apr 1, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Sounds like the usual network operator bollocks getting in the way, rather than Google...



And that's shit, cos one of the reasons I want one is so that I can tether it to my laptop.


----------



## fractionMan (Apr 1, 2009)

editor said:


> Android doesn't demand the same monopolistic grip on all app sales, so presumably Android users could simply download these tethering apps direct from the developers, no?



god I hope so...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 1, 2009)

editor said:


> presumably Android users could simply download these tethering apps direct from the developers, no?



Can't see why not, there's an option in the main phone settings menu that allows you to install non-market apps.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 1, 2009)

HTC Magic to be launched on May 1st, free on contracts from £25 a month, according to Mobile Today.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2009)

25 quid a month and free? Any idea what contract length or mins/text deal?


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 1, 2009)

No idea. It hasn't been confirmed by Vodafone, and they don't say what the source is, so I'm a little suspicious. Would be a market beating deal though, as even if it's minimal texts/mins, it'd have to be unlimited data for the constant updates and always on connectivity.


----------



## fractionMan (Apr 2, 2009)

They said april dammit.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 2, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> No idea. It hasn't been confirmed by Vodafone, and they don't say what the source is, so I'm a little suspicious. Would be a market beating deal though, as even if it's minimal texts/mins, it'd have to be unlimited data for the constant updates and always on connectivity.



I'd have thought you could get away with 500 meg a month to do that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 2, 2009)

Apparently Google have reversed the tethering thing but not for the US.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 2, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I'd have thought you could get away with 500 meg a month to do that.



Only if you didn't actually use the iternet at all on it. It has to be unlimited to compete with the G1 and the iPhone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 2, 2009)

I rarely use that much, although if I lived in an area with HSDPA then it might be different.  500 megs is a lot of web pages to your phone. 

It would compete because it would be cheaper. You could offer unlimited for more expensive tariffs. Anyway I'm just speculating here, but if they can give it away on a £25 contract then it would be a serious contender in the market.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 2, 2009)

Still not confirmed by Vodafone anyway, I would love to see the source as I'm starting to doubt the reliability of the information.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 2, 2009)

A full, proper satnav has just appeared on the Market.

This makes me very happy indeed.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 2, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A full, proper satnav has just appeared on the Market.
> 
> This makes me very happy indeed.



Free for 5 day trial, then 100 euros a year subscription.

Ouch!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 2, 2009)

What do you get for the 8 quid a month or so?  Just regular map updates?


----------



## editor (Apr 3, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Free for 5 day trial, then 100 euros a year subscription.
> 
> Ouch!


What?! You can stick Tom Tom on the Palm/WM etc for a fraction of that price.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 3, 2009)

Sunray said:


> What do you get for the 8 quid a month or so?  Just regular map updates?



The maps aren't held on your phone, they're pulled over the air as needed so they're always up to date.

http://www.wisepilot.com


It looks pretty good from the brief play I've had with it, but I'm really not sure it's worth the money.

I'm hoping TomTom have got an Android version waiting in the wings...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 3, 2009)

editor said:


> What?! You can stick Tom Tom on the Palm/WM etc for a fraction of that price.



Well, according to the Tom Tom website it's £87 for the PDA version of their software, so the initial price isn't that different, and with the Wisepilot software you're always going to be getting the latest maps. 

Hmmmmm.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 3, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The maps aren't held on your phone, they're pulled over the air as needed so they're always up to date.


So you're lost as soon as you go out of signal?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 3, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> So you're lost as soon as you go out of signal?



I've not tested it properly yet but it seems to grab the chunks of map required for the route when you calculate it, so I think you'd be fine.


----------



## editor (Apr 3, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've not tested it properly yet but it seems to grab the chunks of map required for the route when you calculate it, so I think you'd be fine.


It's still a bit crap though compared to proper mapping apps like Tom Tom which store all the map info locally.


----------



## editor (Apr 3, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, according to the Tom Tom website it's £87 for the PDA version of their software, so the initial price isn't that different, and with the Wisepilot software you're always going to be getting the latest maps.


It's £79 for the Palm/WM version of the UK and major Western Europe roads and that comes with free updates. How often do you think you're really going to need 'updated' maps anyway - most roads stay where they are!

I imagine having to download every map is going to impact on battery life too, and maybe incur extra data charges if you use it a lot.


----------



## jæd (Apr 3, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've not tested it properly yet but it seems to grab the chunks of map required for the route when you calculate it, so I think you'd be fine.



I would of thought so. It would also be easier to download from the Android Marketplace. There would also be the benefits to TomTom that it would be easy to stomp out illegal copies.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2009)

editor said:


> How often do you think you're really going to need 'updated' maps anyway - most roads stay where they are!



Roads may become one way, sometimes they're are closed off, sometimes camera's are added to them...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 3, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, according to the Tom Tom website it's £87 for the PDA version of their software, so the initial price isn't that different, and with the Wisepilot software you're always going to be getting the latest maps.
> 
> Hmmmmm.



for the 1st year.


----------



## editor (Apr 3, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Roads may become one way, sometimes they're are closed off, sometimes camera's are added to them...


Don't mean nowt to me. I use a push bike


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2009)

editor said:


> Don't mean nowt to me. I use a push bike



You ride up a one way street the wrong way!? 

Point is roads may technically not change in that they are still there but road usage can hence updates is an issue...


----------



## jæd (Apr 3, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You ride up a one way street the wrong way!?
> 
> Point is roads may technically not change in that they are still there but road usage can hence updates is an issue...



Also handy to correct mistakes in the map leading to muppet motorists nearly going over cliffs, etc...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2009)

jæd said:


> Also handy to correct mistakes in the map leading to muppet motorists nearly going over cliffs, etc...



Heh yeah true.


----------



## editor (Apr 3, 2009)

jæd said:


> Also handy to correct mistakes in the map leading to muppet motorists nearly going over cliffs, etc...


I tend to use my eyes and common sense when travelling around with GPS. 

Funnily enough, I've never encountered any problems getting around London with a 10 year old map. Well, none that a brief bit of intelligence couldn't work out.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2009)

editor said:


> I tend to use my eyes and common sense when travelling around with GPS.
> 
> Funnily enough, I've never encountered any problems getting around London with a 10 year old map. Well, none that a brief bit of intelligence couldn't work out.



Is experience of driving a car?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 3, 2009)

Does anyone know how much space the map data takes up on a regular tomtom?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Does anyone know how much space the map data takes up on a regular tomtom?



I don't think it's that much seeing as they used to give them with 256mb SD cards...


----------



## jæd (Apr 3, 2009)

editor said:


> I tend to use my eyes and common sense when travelling around with GPS.
> 
> Funnily enough, I've never encountered any problems getting around London with a 10 year old map. Well, none that a brief bit of intelligence couldn't work out.



I can well imagine that. However if you're driving in a car in an area that you've never been before it becomes a bit tricky... (Espcially if its at night and in a country where you don't speak the lingo so its hard to stop and ask for directions...)


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 3, 2009)

editor said:


> I imagine having to download every map is going to impact on battery life too, and maybe incur extra data charges if you use it a lot.



You can also guarantee that you will lose signal or their will be a problem with the server when you need it most. There are also lots of parts of the country without EDGE/3G/HSDPA and getting maps on grps is a pain.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 3, 2009)

editor said:


> It's still a bit crap though compared to proper mapping apps like Tom Tom which store all the map info locally.



I can see the advantages of both methods tbh.




> How often do you think you're really going to need 'updated' maps anyway - most roads stay where they are!



But there's always roadworks, diversions, new speed cameras, closures etc 




> I imagine having to download every map is going to impact on battery life too, and maybe incur extra data charges if you use it a lot.



Well, this app is designed to be used in a car, so battery life isn't an issue, you just plug it into your 12V socket.  Data charges, yeah maybe, it would be interesting to see just how much data is being transmitted. 




> I've never encountered any problems getting around London with a 10 year old map



Try _driving_ in London with a 10 year old map and see how far you get.  Even current ones are really tricky because while showing one way streets they don't show restricted turn junctions.  You often end up navigating yourself to the correct junction but then find you can't turn left and so on.

London is about the only place I think satnavs are almost essential, I'd have been fucked without one the other day - apparently a load of hippies had shut a few roads 




Sunray said:


> for the 1st year.



Yeah, if Tom tom are offering free yearly updates it seems pretty expensive...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 3, 2009)

I can only think its a matter of time before TomTom and their ilk release it for the Android platform.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 3, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I can only think its a matter of time before TomTom and their ilk release it for the Android platform.



With a bit of luck, yeah.  I'm hoping this is the first of the "serious" software coming for Android iyswim.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2009)

*T-Mobile Making an Android-powered Tablet PC and Home Phone for 2010*

Link



> The NYT is reporting that T-Mobile has plans to make a Tablet-styled Device AND a home phone for next year (2010) and that both of those devices will run Android. Wow. We're not getting more Android phones, we're getting more Android devices.
> 
> The Home Phone is supposed to come with a docking station to handle syncing and re-charging purposes with a release earlier than the tablet device. The tablet device is shrouded in mystery but you can expect a 7-inch, laptop looking device that'll handle the basic computing tasks.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Try _driving_ in London with a 10 year old map and see how far you get.


An awful lot of people have managed that for an awful long time, you know. An up to date satnav is handy, but to be _totally_ reliant on satnav  to get around is a bit pathetic really.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2009)

editor said:


> An awful lot of people have managed that for an awful long time, you know. An up to date satnav is handy, but to be _totally_ reliant on satnav  to get around is a bit pathetic really.



Have you ever used a satnav? No one I know that does is 'totally reliant' on them. Like all good tech they compliment not replace user knowledge.


----------



## jæd (Apr 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have you ever used a satnav? No one I know that does is 'totally reliant' on them. Like all good tech they compliment not replace user knowledge.



It usually depends on how much I know the area... In London I can get around easily without one, but with one I can see any side-roads I could take to dodge around traffic problems. And then there's a heads-up on any jams up ahead... Not to mention bits of London I may never have got to before...

Getting around London on a bike is certainly very easy, but when you're driving there's things like god-awful one-way systems and turns which can only be done in buses, etc...


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have you ever used a satnav?


Yes, thanks. Tom Tom 6 on my Palm.



Kid_Eternity said:


> No one I know that does is 'totally reliant' on them.


You may not know anyone but there's enough  stories of drivers becoming unstuck as they follow their satnav's instructions to daft places.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2009)

editor said:


> Yes, thanks. Tom Tom 6 on my Palm.
> 
> You may not know anyone but there's enough  stories of drivers becoming unstuck as they follow their satnav's instructions to daft places.



Tons of stories compared the millions of journeys that use them safely with no problem. Hardly a credible critique of the tech now is it?


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Tons of stories compared the millions of journeys that use them safely with no problem. Hardly a credible critique of the tech now is it?


I haven't criticised the tech.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 6, 2009)

editor said:


> An awful lot of people have managed that for an awful long time, you know. An up to date satnav is handy, but to be _totally_ reliant on satnav  to get around is a bit pathetic really.



Trust me, driving in central London is getting harder and harder without one.  Turning priorities at junctions seemingly change on a weekly basis, and you can't pull over to read a map because you'll either get a ticket or cause a traffic jam.

Any other city and I prefer to use a proper map, but London is pretty unique in this country in how much of a nightmare it is to drive around.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 6, 2009)

You non Londoners, moan moan moan.  Place is a the same as it always was, easy as to drive about apart from outsiders like yourself getting in the way.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 6, 2009)

I recieved an email from Vodafone stating that the HTC Magic will be ready for pre-order 'soon'. Apparently staffers have been told that April 17th will be pre-order date, so May 1st is now looking somewhat optimistic.


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> You non Londoners, moan moan moan.  Place is a the same as it always was, easy as to drive about apart from outsiders like yourself getting in the way.


You've got to be soft in the head to drive through central London anyway


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> You non Londoners, moan moan moan.  Place is a the same as it always was, easy as to drive about apart from outsiders like yourself getting in the way.



You try finding a loading bay in some tiny backstreet in the middle of the rush hour and then I'll listen to you


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 6, 2009)

editor said:


> You've got to be soft in the head to drive through central London anyway



Work.

It's a bit hard to carry 20 tons of PA gear on the tube.


----------



## Oswaldtwistle (Apr 6, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I
> Try _driving_ in London with a 10 year old map and see how far you get.  Even current ones are really tricky because while showing one way streets they don't show restricted turn junctions.  You often end up navigating yourself to the correct junction but then find you can't turn left and so on.




Off-topic, but the Philips map shows banned turns. AFAIK they are they only ones that do. 

http://www.mapsworldwide.com/sku_16726.htm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2009)

editor said:


> You've got to be soft in the head to drive through central London anyway



Er what? This include weekends or in the middle of the night when there's no one about!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Er what? This include weekends or in the middle of the night when there's no one about!



Yeah there are at the w/e, smattering of 1st lesson learner drivers doing 5mph.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 7, 2009)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> banned turns



Trust me, certain junctions change on an almost weekly basis.  A route you've been driving for months/years can suddenly become impossible...


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Trust me, certain junctions change on an almost weekly basis.  A route you've been driving for months/years can suddenly become impossible...


((((bees))))


----------



## Ae589 (Apr 8, 2009)

While all this middle-aged talking about the best route to the party was very nice...

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/news.aspx?id=55522

HTC magic put back to May, free on a £25 contract, according to Mobile Today.


----------



## editor (Apr 15, 2009)

Here you go Android peeps:

One Dozen Super-Useful (and Free!) Android Apps





> *
> Gmote*: Turn Android into a remote control for your computer and its music and movies with Gmote. Perfect for controlling your media center PC under the television from the couch, Gmote can browse what media files you want to play and offers regular play, pause, rewind, and volume controls (as shown). Alternately, you can go into Gmote's touchpad mode and drive the mouse on your computer screen with your phone, launching and switching applications. Gmote requires that you install server software on your computer as well as the Android app to work.
> 
> 
> ...


http://lifehacker.com/5212542/one-dozen-super+useful-and-free-android-apps


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 15, 2009)

Ae589 said:


> While all this middle-aged talking about the best route to the party was very nice...
> 
> http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/news.aspx?id=55522
> 
> HTC magic put back to May, free on a £25 contract, according to Mobile Today.



I need this phone in my life NOW.

Still no official word from Vodafone, although rumour has it that pre-order will be available from friday.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 15, 2009)

There's a much better app for weather than the Weather Channel one now - Weatherbug


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 15, 2009)

Does anyone know where I can see a complete list of Android Marketplace apps, without using an Android phone?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 15, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Does anyone know where I can see a complete list of Android Marketplace apps, without using an Android phone?



God knows, there's thousands of them!


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 17, 2009)

HTC Magic available to order tomorrow, according to Android News:
http://www.talkandroid.com/906-preorder-htc-magic/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 17, 2009)

Available to pre - order you mean.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 17, 2009)

Yeah. Delivery for 5th May. It's actually available on the website now. Top plan is £30 a month for 600mins/unlimited net/unlimited texts, however when I select it, it jumps to £35. I'll have to call them tomorrow.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 17, 2009)

It is? Can't see it...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 17, 2009)

Ah found it. Thought it'd be on the front page bigging it up but had to search for this page.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 17, 2009)

Much nicer design as long as the virtual keyboard is easy to use.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 17, 2009)

Apparently the £30 a month is only for a 24 month contract... I think that's a bit long and willl be paying the extra £5 for an 18 month contact instead.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Much nicer design as long as the virtual keyboard is easy to use.



Yep, its much nicer than the G1...


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 18, 2009)

Just ordered


----------



## Sunray (Apr 18, 2009)

I see that there are going to be Android powered Netbooks.

The problem.  Screen size.  Currently there is only one screen size. All the applications work using that screen size.

Netbook apps will work on a different screen size and perhaps will be more mouse than finger friendly.   Dilutes the platform into a hideous mess.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2009)

It's on Vodafone's site. Prices are from free.

http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/shop/mob...=90338&WT.mc_id=AFW-28-03-2006-W001&clickref=

If I wasn't so geared up for the Pre, this would be in my top three contenders.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 20, 2009)

Delivery will be 5th May, apparently. I'm looking forward to spending a small fortune on apps that I'll probably never use 

The app I am most looking forward to using - Buddy Runner - is free. Like Nike+iPod without the need for a lump in your shoe, and looks like a much more user friendly interface, too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2009)

Looking forward to your initial impressions...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 21, 2009)

A app that turns your G1 into a metal detector has just appeared on the market, fuck knows how, but it appears to work  

I guess it must use the compass somehow


----------



## fractionMan (Apr 21, 2009)

I'm gonna be ordering mine at the weekend.

We should start another thread for recommended apps.  This thread's too big.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 21, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> I'm gonna be ordering mine at the weekend.
> 
> We should start another thread for recommended apps.  This thread's too big.



I think there is a mobile apps thread somewhere...


----------



## editor (Apr 26, 2009)

Samsung's first Android handset seems to be looming. Not bad specs too.


> # Android 1.5 OS
> # Quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE, dual-band UMTS/HSPA
> # 528 MHz Qualcomm MSM7200A CPU
> # 3.2-inch HVGA capacitive OLED touchscreen display
> ...


http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/04/26/samsungs-first-android-phone-the-i7500-due-in-june/


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 26, 2009)

Samsung phones are shit, without exception.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 26, 2009)

editor said:


> Samsung's first Android handset seems to be looming. Not bad specs too.
> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/04/26/samsungs-first-android-phone-the-i7500-due-in-june/



Doesn't android have to have a trackball?

OLED display is the nice feature,  Samsung are the big makers of these displays now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 27, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Doesn't android have to have a trackball?



Not sure, but the pic on that link looks as if it has a d-pad which would do much the same thing...


----------



## Ozric (Apr 27, 2009)

Got mine pre-ordered yesterday, I feel like an excited little kid.....it's pathetic really


----------



## Sunray (Apr 28, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Not sure, but the pic on that link looks as if it has a d-pad which would do much the same thing...



Well yes and no.  I see that manufacturers not including consistent input devices as massive fail.

If I create a game/application that was for trackball, its only going to work on G1/G2 devices?  Not everyone is going to know that.  

You get a Samsung and its not going to work.  Platform dilution is one of the many reason WM6 is so bad.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 28, 2009)

A guide to Glastonbury festival that supposedly lets you know what's going on near you based on the GPS has just appeared on the market 

No idea if it will be any good though as I won't there, but it might be worth a go for anyone that is


----------



## dweller (Apr 30, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A guide to Glastonbury festival that supposedly lets you know what's going on near you based on the GPS has just appeared on the market
> 
> No idea if it will be any good though as I won't there, but it might be worth a go for anyone that is



I dled this, 
seems ok, but doesn't let you zoom in on the map.
I'm not taking my g1 to glasto, it'd only get lost/broken, 
 got an old nokia with torch and long battery to take with,


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 30, 2009)

I'm properly pissed off. The HTC Magic is being launched in shops tomorrow. I preordered mine on the 18th, and won't be recieving it until Tuesday. What a fucking joke


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> I'm properly pissed off. The HTC Magic is being launched in shops tomorrow. I preordered mine on the 18th, and won't be recieving it until Tuesday. What a fucking joke


At least you're getting it soon. I've been salivating over a new phone for months and there's no sign of the Pre arriving yet.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 30, 2009)

I know, and it's a stupid thing to be annoyed about, considering that they've said 5th May for delivery since they first announced a firm date. But it just stings a little that the customers who registered interest early and pre ordered are geting left behind.


----------



## Sunray (May 1, 2009)

Motorola have finally said they are going to release android phones in the 3rd Q of this year. 
Something about unusual designs.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 1, 2009)

That sounds promising. The OS on Motorolas I've used is pants, but coupled with a better OS they could make some nice phones.


----------



## Coffee (May 2, 2009)

Played with the G2 phone today in the vodaphone shop. Nice phone, the touch screen was really responsive, nice screen resolution and general feel. shame there was no 3.5 headphone socket, Or i would of been tempted to leave tmobile in three weeks time. Also the £35 24 month contract was a bit of a shock. The assistant said it could be reduced to 18 month for a fiver a month more. X. Oh and no fm radio?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 3, 2009)

What's the on screen keyboard like to use?


----------



## Coffee (May 3, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's the on screen keyboard like to use?



The on screen keyboard worked quite well, on par with the others ive used, not a big fan of them to be honest, Only really use the predictive text keyboard on my viewty as i find i quicker anyway. Lack of headphone jack and no fm radio was a big let down for me. still think the 5800 will suit my personal needs better. X


----------



## Ozric (May 3, 2009)

Got mine now, a great phone but don't get it if you want a good camera-phone...it's rubbish for that.  Apart from that it is sleek and smooth, of course all google apps work on it and the screen gives the best it can for a small screen.  It has frozen on me twice but that was after installation of new apps so may be forgiven.
Overall though I think it's pretty sweet


----------



## dweller (May 3, 2009)

Ozric said:


> Got mine now, a great phone but don't get it if you want a good camera-phone...it's rubbish for that.  Apart from that it is sleek and smooth, of course all google apps work on it and the screen gives the best it can for a small screen.  It has frozen on me twice but that was after installation of new apps so may be forgiven.
> Overall though I think it's pretty sweet



I've just put the 1.5 firmware on my G1 (the one that is especially designed for G1)
It has frozen on me a couple of times.
The previous android os never did this it just showed a "force close" button. 
A bit of a pain as I have to take out the battery in order to get the phone working again!!


----------



## cliche guevara (May 3, 2009)

Won't be getting mine til Tuesday, but have heard that paid apps are not yet available for cupcake, is this the case Ozric?


----------



## Ozric (May 3, 2009)

I can't see any chargeable apps, closest thing would be the lite versions of apps.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 3, 2009)

Ozric said:


> Got mine now, a great phone but don't get it if you want a good camera-phone...it's rubbish for that.



Download "SnapPhoto" from the market, if the G2 is anything like the G1 a lot of the problems with the camera are software based, not the hardware. SnapPhoto, while not 100% perfect (exposure compensation is still missing) goes some way to sorting things.


----------



## editor (May 3, 2009)

There's some reviews of the HTC Magic here:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...obile-phones/hands-on-htc-magic-review-532561
http://www.knowyourmobile.com/smartphones/htc/244311/htc_magic_review.html

Mainly positive, but the lack of a real keyboard is an issue: 





> As it stands, this could be something of a deal breaker for the Magic, as it seemed in this initial hands on that texting would be something of a chore, unless moving into QWERTY mode is made a little easier through an upgrade. The keyboard was smaller than the iPhone's, and there aren't many people that say they prefer the keyboard on Apple's device to other normal keypads...
> 
> It's elevated itself into the top league for touchscreen performance, and for an internet device, it's a breeze to use.
> 
> But unfortunately, like a new girlfriend, the experience is marred by the predecessor, and the fact that a physical keyboard, which might have looked a bit ugly but certainly allowed top notch texting and the like, has been replaced by the portrait soft version is a bit disappointing.



Are you tempted to upgrade bees?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 3, 2009)

The hard keys seemed one of the best bits about the G1. I'm not sure what's to be gained here. I wish they did a fater version of the Touch HD with a slide out keyboard, with the size of the screen you could get some big keys underneath!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 3, 2009)

editor said:


> Are you tempted to upgrade bees?



Am I fuck.

I said from the start that the G2 is exactly the same as a G1, just not quite as good.


----------



## cliche guevara (May 3, 2009)

It's a much sleeker device though, and apparently has a far superior battery life. Functionality wise, the only difference is the keyboard, but aethetically there's a pretty clear winner.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 3, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> It's a much sleeker device though, and apparently has a far superior battery life. Functionality wise, the only difference is the keyboard, but aethetically there's a pretty clear winner.



Function will always come before form for me!


----------



## cliche guevara (May 3, 2009)

That is the sensible viewpoint, but it's not what the public goes for. The G1 was never going to be a success, because to your average user it's ugly. The Magic has a better chance of success because it's a good looking phone.


----------



## Ozric (May 4, 2009)

The keyboard...lack of is not as bad as I thought it would be, once you take the plunge and trust the predictive it becomes more natural.  I've had to teach it a few words, but I don't worry so much about getting the right letters as the right word seems to appear when i get close.


----------



## cliche guevara (May 5, 2009)

First post from the Magic! Quite impressed so far, the os is very smooth. The keyboard will take a bit of getting used to, I've never used a virtual one before. Only slight niggle is the chin getting in the way of the trackball when in landscape mode.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

There's a very comprehensive review on TechRadar, and it's pretty positive. Apparently the metal detector works too!



> Overall, the HTC Magic is a great improvement on its predecessor, and not just cosmetically. Its shape, button placement and use of the new Android 1.5 upgrade is all a definite upgrade, and despite the appeals of our G1-loving friends, we don't miss the physical keyboard one iota.
> 
> We'd even go as far as saying it's a genuine iThrone contender as it offers something very different but equally as compelling as the iPhone, and for all the people that simply don't want Apple's device they would find a lot to love here, especially with all the applications on show.
> 
> ...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 5, 2009)

I'm really surprised at the lack of a headphone jack, especially as the G1 got flak for it and HTC put in some of their Windows Mobile phones.


----------



## Sunray (May 5, 2009)

Esp as these are multi Gb devices.  What are you going to store on your phone that takes that sort of storage other than multi-media files?

Baffling decision.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Esp as these are multi Gb devices.  What are you going to store on your phone that takes that sort of storage other than multi-media files?
> 
> Baffling decision.



Baffling indeed...


----------



## cliche guevara (May 5, 2009)

The lack of a proper headphone jack is a major gripe. I want to make use of the buddy runner app (not that it's currently 1.5 compatible anyway), but having to use those shoddy earbuds means that they'll fall out on every step. The sound quality is pretty shit too, and I'm sure that's the fault of the headphones rather than the phone. I know you can get converters, but that just adds unwated bulk.

The camera looks every bit as good as the 5.0mp snapper on my K850i, and as bees said, the snapphoto app does it a world of good. The touchscreen is brilliant, really responsive (no problems with the bottom of the screen at all, maybe techradar's one is dodgy?), and I'm already getting used to the on screen keyboard. Very impressed so far, gonna spend the evening filling it with crap from the market place


----------



## cliche guevara (May 5, 2009)

In other news, this is rumoured to be the HTC Hero:


----------



## editor (May 6, 2009)

Another good review for the G2/HTC Touch. If the Pre fails to live up to the hype, I'll be giving this one a close lookover.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/reviews/review.phtml/4019/htc-magic-mobile-phone-review.phtml


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 6, 2009)

editor said:


> Apparently the metal detector works too!



Yep, it works.  Not quite sure it's of any practical use mind, but very cool nonetheless 




editor said:


> Another good review for the G2/HTC Touch. If the Pre fails to live up to the hype, I'll be giving this one a close lookover.
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/reviews/review.phtml/4019/htc-magic-mobile-phone-review.phtml



I thought you hated virtual keyboards


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 6, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Very impressed so far, gonna spend the evening filling it with crap from the market place



Recommended apps:

AstroClock (strange but cool moon/season/sunrise clock thingy)
Bartender (cocktail recipes)
Bubble (spirit level/inclinometer)
Cab4Me (local cabs numbers based on your location)
Facebook Sync (sync friends into your contacts)
FBook (mobile Facebook app)
GTraffic (up to date traffic info)
Live UK Rail (up to date arrival and departure times for every single UK station)
London City (tube map/service guide)
Metal Detector (does what it says on the tin)
Nav4All (free satnav)
Orienteer (compass)
Picasa (integrates one-click Picasa uploads into the "share" menu)
Rave button (portable 5 second rave at the push of a button!)
ShopSavvy (scan a barcode, find out where you can get it cheaper)
SkyMap (shows you what stars you can see in the sky, based on location and direction)
StarContact (improved contacts list)
WeatherBug (the best weather app for Android, better than the Weather Channel one)


----------



## editor (May 6, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I thought you hated virtual keyboards


I'm not a fan at all, but as I said ages ago, I've long given up on finding my ideal phone that has everything I want. 

The Pre comes closest, but if that fails to materialise, none of the alternatives come with everything I want. The iPhone's the best all round user experience, but I'm not interested in joining the iBorg; the HTC HD Touch is a beaut, but that lurking WM 6 will give me the heebeegeebees, I don't fancy battling with Blackberry's nasty UI, and there's little to excite me in the Nokia department, despite their huge feature sets.

So that currently leaves the G1 (nice phone, but too big), the G2 - looking great but no chuffing keyboard and, err....


----------



## ooo (May 6, 2009)

Anyone knows where/if I could get a sim free version of HTC Magic?


----------



## cliche guevara (May 6, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Recommended apps:
> 
> AstroClock (strange but cool moon/season/sunrise clock thingy)
> Bartender (cocktail recipes)
> ...


Well that'll certainly keep me busy!


editor said:


> I'm not a fan at all, but as I said ages ago, I've long given up on finding my ideal phone that has everything I want.
> 
> The Pre comes closest, but if that fails to materialise, none of the alternatives come with everything I want. The iPhone's the best all round user experience, but I'm not interested in joining the iBorg; the HTC HD Touch is a beaut, but that lurking WM 6 will give me the heebeegeebees, I don't fancy battling with Blackberry's nasty UI, and there's little to excite me in the Nokia department, despite their huge feature sets.
> 
> So that currently leaves the G1 (nice phone, but too big), the G2 - looking great but no chuffing keyboard and, err....


I don't like virtual keys either, but this is a lot better than expected. It has auto correct for common mistakes which works really well too.

My dad, brother and housemate all have iPhones, and all agree that the Magic is better.


ooo said:


> Anyone knows where/if I could get a sim free version of HTC Magic?



Vodafone are selling it for £414.00


----------



## Stig (May 7, 2009)

I finally upgraded! After years on the old vintage PAYG  nokias, i decided I wanted to get with the times. 

After reading this thread and doing all the research, I got a G1 delivered this morning. It's the best thing EVAH! I absolutely can't believe it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 7, 2009)

What colour did you get?


----------



## ooo (May 7, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Vodafone are selling it for £414.00



Thanks. 
May I have the linky for that?  I don't seem to be able to find that information as they all say exclusive Vodafone contracts.


----------



## cliche guevara (May 7, 2009)

I think it's only available from Vodafone stores.

Bees - A couple of those apps aren't showing for me, are they paid apps? These aren't yet available for cupcake.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 7, 2009)

The "cupcake" update was pushed to my phone this morning 

A great phone has just become pretty much perfect.  I now have all the plus points of a G2 (virtual keyboard, auto rotation to landscape, updated graphics and window animations) as well as having a proper hardware keyboard when I want it.

Edit - oooooh, video recording as well now!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 7, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> I think it's only available from Vodafone stores.
> 
> Bees - A couple of those apps aren't showing for me, are they paid apps? These aren't yet available for cupcake.



Which ones can't you see?


----------



## editor (May 7, 2009)

Top 9 Android apps from Crave:


> *Moov*: It calls itself a mobile interface, but in reality Moov is a launcher. From the dashboard view, slide open the keyboard and begin typing the first few letters of your MP3, application, address book contact, and so on to get a list of search suggestions popping up on a separate screen. Moov even helps you out by offering tabs that let you search your term in the publisher's other apps: Fbook, Quickpedia, Local (Yelp), and Dial Zero. I have to give Moov's developer, Next Mobile Web, a little credit--most of their apps made this top list, too. One set-up note--for best results, make Moov the default search organism, or else you'll waste time choosing to search through the contact list or through Moov, and this app subsumes Android's own search.
> 
> *Fusion Visual Voicemail*: If you haven't yet discovered visual voice mail, don't waste another second. It's high time you scissor off the shackles of regular, "blind" voice mail. By simply forwarding your voice mail calls through PhoneFusion's service, you'll be able to see the messages stacked up in your in-box and listen to calls in any order you choose. You can play and pause the message, mark it unread, call or text the caller (extremely useful if you're in a meeting or another locale where it would be imprudent to field a call.) You can also add the contact, or even resurrect a deleted message. While PhoneFusion's visual voicemail service is free, it's likely that PhoneFusion will soon follow the lead of competitors on other platforms and offer premium services to transcribe voice messages into text, making them truly "visual."
> 
> ...


----------



## Stig (May 7, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The "cupcake" update was pushed to my phone this morning
> 
> A great phone has just become pretty much perfect.  I now have all the plus points of a G2 (virtual keyboard, auto rotation to landscape, updated graphics and window animations) as well as having a proper hardware keyboard when I want it.
> 
> Edit - oooooh, video recording as well now!



I've got this stuff too; I thought I always had it! I suppose mine must have been sent out with the up to date version since I only got it yesterday morning.

Virtual keyboard is bobbins, I'm so glad I got a G1. 

*strokes lovely phone*


----------



## Stig (May 7, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What colour did you get?



black one of course!


----------



## cliche guevara (May 7, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Which ones can't you see?



Any app that isn't free. Google are working on it, according to Vodafone. Out of your list BarTender, Live UK Rail and London City were all unavailable (from the ones I looked for).


----------



## editor (May 7, 2009)

If I can get one for a decent price (around £160), I'm going to get a G1 to tide me over until the Palm Pre gets released.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 7, 2009)

editor said:


> If I can get one for a decent price (around £160), I'm going to get a G1 to tide me over until the Palm Pre gets released.



Might have to wait a little longer going by this price of 199 for a 2nd hand G1. The G2 should put some downward pressure on that though.


----------



## editor (May 7, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Might have to wait a little longer going by this price of 199 for a 2nd hand G1. The G2 should put some downward pressure on that though.


A couple have recently gone on eBay for £170ish and there's loads around that price on Gumtree. If I buy for £170 and flog it for £140 later, that'll be a good enough deal for me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 7, 2009)

editor said:


> A couple have recently gone on eBay for £170ish and there's loads around that price on Gumtree. If I buy for £170 and flog it for £140 later, that'll be a good enough deal for me.



Yeah just saw some on eBay that are ripe for going for around that figure. Tbh I'd be happy if I sold one for half the price I got it for if I went down that route...


----------



## Stig (May 7, 2009)

Ok i have a problem 

I was happily using marketplace earler, and now suddenly all I get is a pop-up telling me my wireless access (which is off) is not allowed to access it. 'Further info' tells me that i'm being blocked by the under 18 content blocker. Which I've just disabled on principle, (and done the reboot so it's not that.) Meh!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 7, 2009)

Phone up customer services? I don't use android, but it sounds like something imposed by them.

Orange told me Urban is only suitable for over 18's and I had to allow access by calling them.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2009)

Stig said:


> Ok i have a problem
> 
> I was happily using marketplace earler, and now suddenly all I get is a pop-up telling me my wireless access (which is off) is not allowed to access it. 'Further info' tells me that i'm being blocked by the under 18 content blocker. Which I've just disabled on principle, (and done the reboot so it's not that.) Meh!


That's almost certainly down to your network provider - I had it once with a Vodafone phone I was testing. Give 'em a call and tell them to run it off sharpish.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 8, 2009)

Stig said:


> Ok i have a problem
> 
> I was happily using marketplace earler, and now suddenly all I get is a pop-up telling me my wireless access (which is off) is not allowed to access it. 'Further info' tells me that i'm being blocked by the under 18 content blocker. Which I've just disabled on principle, (and done the reboot so it's not that.) Meh!



This is T-Mobile, not the phone.  Just give them a ring


----------



## Stig (May 8, 2009)

All fixed, i went into the T-mobile shop this morning and they said it was already unlocked, but needed a 'proper' reboot; I hadn't left it off for long enough before restarting it presumably. 
I gave them my orange number port code too so it's all sorted.

Phew! 

PS I really rate Advanced Task Manager application. Find out what's still running and kill it, save that battery.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2009)

Are there any good note-taking/to-do apps for Android with desktop companion programs?


----------



## Ozric (May 8, 2009)

The google calender should cover that.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2009)

Ozric said:


> The google calender should cover that.


AFAIK, there's no note taking/advanced to-do feature in Google.

I'm looking for something like Bonsai on the Palm.


----------



## cliche guevara (May 8, 2009)

editor said:


> Are there any good note-taking/to-do apps for Android with desktop companion programs?


There are a couple of sticky widgets, or note taker apps with alarms. Nothing that does both yet (at least not for free), but it won't take long.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 8, 2009)

editor said:


> Are there any good note-taking/to-do apps for Android with desktop companion programs?



There's all sorts of notes/to do/task apps on the market, no idea if any of them would be suitable for your needs though.  I use Astrid for to do list stuff, but that;s only coz I;ve never got round to using the google calendar properly for reminders.


As for desktop companion stuff, errr, dunno, since almost everything I use is now "cloud" stuff.


----------



## editor (May 9, 2009)

I've joined the G1 club!
Should get it Tuesday


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 9, 2009)

Ah cool, how much did you end up getting one for?


----------



## Daniel (May 10, 2009)

I just went to get some of the recommended apps, and I can't access it!

I have to prove I'm 18 to access the bloody market, I know parents can get there children phones, but it still annoys me that a I have the contract, yet have to prove I'm 18.


edit: Oh thats fucking ridiculous, I don't own a credit card, so now I've got to go into a store just so I can get an application that scans barcodes!


----------



## editor (May 10, 2009)

Daniel.x3h said:


> I just went to get some of the recommended apps, and I can't access it!
> 
> I have to prove I'm 18 to access the bloody market, I know parents can get there children phones, but it still annoys me that a I have the contract, yet have to prove I'm 18.
> 
> ...


That's got nothing to do with the phone, but everything to do with your network provider. Give them a call.


----------



## mauvais (May 10, 2009)

I've just got the Dev Phone 1 at work, and I'm toying with the idea of getting one for myself. I love the browser but I'm not sure the rest is as usable as my SE candybar phone.


----------



## Daniel (May 10, 2009)

editor said:


> That's got nothing to do with the phone, but everything to do with your network provider. Give them a call.



The update bought in has something to do with it, I could access it before that but yea it is all t mobile admittedly.  And I can't, you can either do it over the phone with a CC, over the net with a CC or go to a local branch with proof of age


----------



## Private Storm (May 12, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> The touchscreen is brilliant, really responsive (no problems with the bottom of the screen at all, maybe techradar's one is dodgy?), and I'm already getting used to the on screen keyboard. Very impressed so far, gonna spend the evening filling it with crap from the market place



I got my Magic delivered on Saturday and have spent the days between then and now doing just that - filling it with crap. Have got to say though, the keyboard is just ok, no where near as good as the iPhone (have got one as a work phone). And I think that I'm having the same issue with the bottom of the screen - where you initially want to press gives nothing, you have to adjust upwards slightly. You get used to it, but slightly lets it down. The touchscreen response is slightly slow too, but I guess that's just because I am used to the iPhone.

Other than that though, I'm really liking the handset.


----------



## fractionMan (May 12, 2009)

I've found a poker application that runs on my knackered old sony, so I can't be arsed to upgrade now!


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

My G1 arrived this morning, and I'm mightily impressed thus far. The phone is literally brand new and unused so I got myself a bit of a bargain too!

The screen is fabulous, and the phone updated itself to Cupcake within minutes of turning it on. Very smooth.

The onscreen keyboard is as fiddly as I remember the iPhone's, and although the slide out keyboard is a vast improvement, it's not as fast or as responsive as my Centro - which make me all the more impatient for the Pre!

So much of the phone is leagues ahead of the Centro though, and the marketplace works like a dream. The camera is a lot better than I expected, as is the video. I've already downloaded  facebook and myspace apps, and I guess I've got loads more to come!


----------



## Sunray (May 12, 2009)

I thought that anything less that 200 quid would be a very good price for one of those.  Its not set the world alight, so its one of those dark horse devices that get a bit forgotten yet are much higher quality than people actually realise. 

I remember that T-Mobile wanted to charge you more for using one, I was wondering how T-Mobile can tell if you own one?


----------



## cliche guevara (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> My G1 arrived this morning, and I'm mightily impressed thus far. The phone is literally brand new and unused so I got myself a bit of a bargain too!
> 
> The screen is fabulous, and the phone updated itself to Cupcake within minutes of turning it on. Very smooth.
> 
> ...


SnapPhoto, with steadyshot, is a free app which makes the most of that camera. It's an essential app.


----------



## sumimasen (May 12, 2009)

Quick question y'all.  If I have an o2 simcard (on the simplicity contract), would it work in a 2nd hand G1 phone I buy off ebay?

I ask because I've got a Samsung on an o2 contract, but I've had a T-Mobile PAYG simcard work into before, so am wondering if it's safe to assume that the relationship would work both ways.


----------



## dweller (May 12, 2009)

sumimasen said:


> Quick question y'all.  If I have an o2 simcard (on the simplicity contract), would it work in a 2nd hand G1 phone I buy off ebay?
> 
> I ask because I've got a Samsung on an o2 contract, but I've had a T-Mobile PAYG simcard work into before, so am wondering if it's safe to assume that the relationship would work both ways.



If you had trouble with an o2 sim on the G1, you could flash the phone with the Developers Version of the 
 Android OS. This should take any sim and has pretty much all the same functionality. 
It is what I'm using on my G1 even though I have a Tmob sim.


----------



## sumimasen (May 12, 2009)

Cheers (though confused why you yourself needed to 'flash', seeing as G1 is already locked onto a Tmob sim!!)

I will assume that this 'flashing' is done with a usb cable that comes within a standard G1 box.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2009)

I'm loving some of the free apps - some are very slick indeed - but is there a decent calendar app? The default one is shite and is hopeless at showing week/month views.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 13, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm loving some of the free apps - some are very slick indeed - but is there a decent calendar app? The default one is shite and is hopeless at showing week/month views.



What's wrong with it for you?  I thought it was excellent...


----------



## editor (May 13, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What's wrong with it for you?  I thought it was excellent...


It's clunky as fuck. The agenda view only gives me the month and that's it - I don't appear to be able to go back/forward from there. The week view just serves up coloured blocks that you have to click on to see what's going on, while the month view is even more vague with random blobs. 

On my Palm I get views like this where I can see exactly what's going on with times, icons, colour coding and text:







http://www.iambic.com/agendus/palmos/details.asp?cnt=calendar


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 13, 2009)

Christ, that Palm view looks awful, far too "busy" IMO.  

Hourses for courses I guess, but I prefer the simple view of the Android one, a "blob" shows me if I'm busy at a particular time, then if I need more information one tap gives me the details.

The "blobs" on the calendar are all colour coded according to which calendar they're in, the trick is to set it all up in a way that works for you - yellow for work appointments, green for social meetups, red for birthdays etc etc


----------



## editor (May 13, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Christ, that Palm view looks awful, far too "busy" IMO.


You can set the Palm views to be as busy or as minimalist as you like, but the Android one really is shit. Having to click on blobs just to find the most basic of details (say, whose birthday it is) is a disaster of usability. And can I really not see the next month is the Agenda view? That sucks.

There's got to be something better than this.

*fires up Google

Edit: here's the one I've been using on my Palm. Lovely. Four years old, totally customisable and a triumph of usability.


----------



## Sunray (May 13, 2009)

That looks very nice.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2009)

Sunray said:


> That looks very nice.


It's better than anything I've seen on any other platform: you can view tasks/monthly views below (or have the calendar full screen) and set type size and colour for each category, plus add icons











It would look amazing on the G1s high res screen.

(I've just written to the developer asking if they'd so an Android version!)


----------



## dweller (May 13, 2009)

editor said:


> It's better than anything I've seen on any other platform: you can view tasks/monthly views below (or have the calendar full screen) and set type size and colour for each category, plus add icons
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would like to see more quality organiser/calendar apps on android. 
At the moment its still a bit of a toy phone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 13, 2009)

dweller said:


> At the moment its still a bit of a toy phone.



I wouldn't go so far as to call it a toy phone, but it's still not quite there for what I'd call serious business use.

As a consumer device though it's brilliant.


----------



## editor (May 14, 2009)

I'm very impressed with the overall slickness of the G1 - the push email and notifications system is particularly excellent and there's some top notch apps out there. Like just about every phone I've tried, there's nothing to match the Palm's Notes/Calendar apps which is a bit of a pain because I use both a lot.

This GPS satnav app looks interesting:
http://www.andnav.org/index.php/en/about-andnav


----------



## cliche guevara (May 14, 2009)

So paid apps have now appeared on the market for the Magic, but I can't really see anything worth spending money on. All the apps I need are free! Someone mentioned an app that improves the sms interface, anyone know its name?


----------



## dweller (May 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I wouldn't go so far as to call it a toy phone, but it's still not quite there for what I'd call serious business use.
> 
> As a consumer device though it's brilliant.



I agree "toy" wasn't right, consumer device - yes!
I just wish t-mob would allow the iplayer app "beebplayer" to stream on 3G!!


----------



## editor (May 14, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> So paid apps have now appeared on the market for the Magic, but I can't really see anything worth spending money on. All the apps I need are free! Someone mentioned an app that improves the sms interface, anyone know its name?


ChampSMS.  There's an updated Skymap out today and a very  handy WeFi app for connecting to WiFi and sharing connection details.
All free, natch.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 14, 2009)

*is tempted to nab a cheap G1 until the Pre arrives as Centro is fucking up big time at the moment*


----------



## sumimasen (May 14, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> *is tempted to nab a cheap G1 until the Pre arrives as Centro is fucking up big time at the moment*



I'm in the process of doing exactly this.  In talks with some people on ebay and gumtree, for a 2nd hand one (here in London) you're looking at about £165 (locked).


----------



## cliche guevara (May 14, 2009)

editor said:


> ChampSMS.  There's an updated Skymap out today and a very  handy WeFi app for connecting to WiFi and sharing connection details.
> All free, natch.



Hmm, can't seem to find that. This has happened with a couple of apps now. Thought that now paid apps are available, I'd be able to access the entire market.


----------



## editor (May 15, 2009)

Do a search in the Market. It should come right up.


----------



## cliche guevara (May 15, 2009)

ChompSMS! Thats why I couldn't find it! Nice app.


----------



## sumimasen (May 15, 2009)

I've been quoted £25 to unlock a G1 from the local shop.  Sounds a lot.


----------



## Sunray (May 15, 2009)

Yup that does sound a lot. Isn't there a bit of software you can download to do it. I remember that there was something that Google removed from the market place that did it.


----------



## dweller (May 15, 2009)

sumimasen said:


> I've been quoted £25 to unlock a G1 from the local shop.  Sounds a lot.



you can quite easily gain ROOT on your phone and then install the ADP version of the firmware. This makes it unlocked. and saves you £25. You can also attempt things like moving apps to sd card if you dare...
read here for more info
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442480

the latest version to update to is here
http://jf.andblogs.net/2009/05/01/when-is-your-15-coming-out/
but be sure to update the radio first as written


----------



## sumimasen (May 16, 2009)

I've never heard of rooting (expected from the sexual conquest tales of my Aussie mates).

Cheers for the links, will explore.


----------



## dweller (May 16, 2009)

Sumimasen, this series of videos may make it easier
1. 
2. 

3.


----------



## jayeola (May 16, 2009)

Looks like I'm gonna swap my Asus 900 for a G1 or iphone. Lined up a G1 and will see the condition of the thing today. What battery life can one expect from a G1 in good condition?


----------



## dweller (May 16, 2009)

jayeola said:


> Looks like I'm gonna swap my Asus 900 for a G1 or iphone. Lined up a G1 and will see the condition of the thing today. What battery life can one expect from a G1 in good condition?



erm it varies, 
keep screen brightness down and switch off GPS and WIFI when not using 
 and you'll have more than one day. 

Use a lot of streaming data like youtube or online radio and you may be out by the end of the day, 
 you can buy higher capacity batteries to solve this problem
  but they bulk out the back of the phone. 

battery life  is the major problem with these smartphones, 
I don't know how the G1 compares with the iphone


----------



## jayeola (May 16, 2009)

Hmmm. Thanks. Know what using the keyboard is like?


----------



## sumimasen (May 16, 2009)

Hey Dweller much obliged for the youtube links.  I've just gone and bought my G1!!  I've gone and gotten a Tmob sim so I don't need to unlock, but I expect the links to definitely help someone reading this thread.

I'm going to go back to playing with my new toy, first impressions are very very good!


----------



## dweller (May 18, 2009)

one of those geeky developers at xda forums has ported a version of android destined for the upcoming HTC Hero phone 
 to the G1. It hasn't been released yet for legal reasons. But may well do soon.
There are new calendar, browser and music player apps built in which look prettier and more slick than the G1 standard.
Check out the video showing it all off


----------



## editor (May 18, 2009)

jayeola said:


> Hmmm. Thanks. Know what using the keyboard is like?


The onscreen virtual keyboard is more or less the same as the iPhones - perhaos not quite as good - while the slide out one is much much better, although it takes a bit of getting used to because of the 'chin.'

The Treo's keyboard is still way better mind, and I'll never get a phone without a proper keyboard after playing with both G1 keyboards all weekend.

The G1 is a fabntastic phone and some of the apps are really good. There's a good community feel with the free apps, and I'm very happy with the handset - but it's still the Pre that's got me most excited.


----------



## jayeola (May 18, 2009)

Yah but the Pre won't be out here for a while. Whilst I think that the Nokia e71 is OK-ish I hate the kb as it sucketh.


----------



## sumimasen (May 18, 2009)

I know I’m late to the G1 party, but having owned one for the past 2 days I want to say that it is frigging beautiful.

I’ve had the iPhone in the past, and comparing the two I can see why the public go for the iPhone……. because it’s 20% more attractive.  That’s it!  This phone is the nuts, very smooth and Android’s community just gives off such a nicer vibe than iLand. 

I was aching for the Pre to come out which is why I bought a G1 to tide me over.  My Pre lust has now died down considerably thanks to my new toy.

My favourite Android apps so far:
gTraffic – up to date traffic reports taken from the BBC site
iTubeStatus – realtime info on delays and disruptions
Quickpedia – Wikipedia built for Android
Wikitude – Wow! Turns your mobile into a visual compass with marks on shops/cafes etc, with reviews and contact info 
Translate – handy for translating into dozens of languages
Ebay Pkt Auction – very user friendly
Qype – as the site, reviews for everything and anything
Shopsavvy – scan any barcode and it’ll find you a cheaper price nearby or online
Tip Calculator – so your stingy mate doesn’t get away with it next time you go dine out
Movie Finder – film times and info for any cinema in your area and beyond
Weatherbug – very user-friendly weather reporting
Chompsms – better-looking texting interface.  Same as the iPhone actually.
Flashlight – when you need a torch
Sky Map – for the amateur astronomer, uses GPS to pinpoint what you see above
Backgrounds – uses Flickr to find very cool wallpaper
Fbook – facebook app


----------



## dweller (May 18, 2009)

The latest app I'm using a lot is NubiNews newsreader.
pretty nice newsreader with a bunch of built in feeds. 
Much faster than using the browser.


----------



## sumimasen (May 18, 2009)

I also forgot to mention three widgets, all by the same developer.  

Toggle WIFI
Toggle Brightness
Toggle GPS


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 18, 2009)

The stickynotes widget is great...


So, "ChompSMS", I keep reading about it, what makes it so much better than the standard sms app?


----------



## editor (May 18, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The stickynotes widget is great...
> 
> 
> So, "ChompSMS", I keep reading about it, what makes it so much better than the standard sms app?


It's prettier and has a bigger text input window- it looks more like the iPhone version (which they ripped off Palm anyway).

I prefer it.

I'll start a dedicated Android Apps thread later as this is getting well congested!


----------



## cliche guevara (May 18, 2009)

Yup, chomp is just more attractive, and customisable.


----------



## editor (May 18, 2009)

Android OS app thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=289448


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 18, 2009)

I've just tried chomp, and unless I'm missing something all it does is display sms threads in really horrible bubbles


----------



## cliche guevara (May 18, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've just tried chomp, and unless I'm missing something all it does is display sms threads in *totally sweet* bubbles



Yup, thats about it. Also more customisable, different sizes and colours etc. I just think it's more attractive than the standard app, and certainly makes it easier to differentiate between outbound and inbound texts.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 18, 2009)

Uninstalled it, not for me.  The standard app + popup sms is far nicer IMHO.  Those bubbles look bloody awful, straight out of the Fisher Price school of app design


----------



## cliche guevara (May 18, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Uninstalled it, not for me.  The standard app + popup sms is far nicer IMHO.  Those bubbles look bloody awful, straight out of the Fisher Price school of app design



The toddler safe app is my most used applicaton


----------



## cliche guevara (May 19, 2009)

Here's a video of the newest Android build, 'Donut':

http://gizmodo.com/5260862/android-donut-interface-makes-us-forget-all-about-palm-pre

Looks gorgeous. Apparently it's going to be launched with the HTC Hero, which is pencilled in for October. Unconfirmed whether the update will be pushed onto our G1's and Magic's, but I see not reason why it wouldn't be.


----------



## editor (May 19, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Uninstalled it, not for me.  The standard app + popup sms is far nicer IMHO.  Those bubbles look bloody awful, straight out of the Fisher Price school of app design


The biggest difference is that you don't have to shunt all your text on to one squinty line like you do with the default app. I've never had an SMS app that wouldn't let me make a paragraph before!

Having cut and paste is handy, but it's nowhere near as easy and as slick as Palm's implementation.

@cliche guevara: that may be HTC's skin on top of Android.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 19, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Here's a video of the newest Android build, 'Donut':
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5260862/android-donut-interface-makes-us-forget-all-about-palm-pre
> 
> Looks gorgeous. Apparently it's going to be launched with the HTC Hero, which is pencilled in for October. Unconfirmed whether the update will be pushed onto our G1's and Magic's, but I see not reason why it wouldn't be.



That does look quite nice, also a clever way of trying to keep up with the Palm Pre/WebOS...


----------



## dweller (May 20, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Here's a video of the newest Android build, 'Donut':
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5260862/android-donut-interface-makes-us-forget-all-about-palm-pre
> 
> Looks gorgeous. Apparently it's going to be launched with the HTC Hero, which is pencilled in for October. Unconfirmed whether the update will be pushed onto our G1's and Magic's, but I see not reason why it wouldn't be.



That is unlikely to be "donut", it could be part of HTCs development on android 1.5 for future phones. HTC always make slick interfaces using the underlying OS such as WinMo to make them look less bog standard. That didn't happen with the G1 as it was a google led phone essentially.
Also it is likely that more powerful phones may be able to have more of these sexy gui interfaces.
Android may begin to look very different on different phones even before we get android 2.0 "donut"

But no-one knows exactly as these videos appeared from a mystery source.


----------



## cliche guevara (May 20, 2009)

Either way, its the most attractive user interface this side of the Pre.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2009)

Oh, hello. I'm already running Android 'Cupcake' 1.5 but another system update has just been installed over the air. It's taking a while to restart so maybe there's something big going on.

*drums fingers


----------



## Ozric (May 22, 2009)

?
<me reboots>


----------



## Ozric (May 22, 2009)

or is that just for you G1 guys....not the magic ones?


----------



## editor (May 22, 2009)

I've no idea, sorry.


----------



## Ozric (May 22, 2009)

In a sharing mood....I've adopted this pic as my desktop:


----------



## sumimasen (May 22, 2009)

Yep my G1 got a system reboot too this morning.

What's happening?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 22, 2009)

No update for me...


Currently showing Firmware 1.5, build number CRB17, what's yours Ed?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 22, 2009)

Any news on what the update is?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 22, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Any news on what the update is?



Dunno, but my phone has literally just started doing it


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 22, 2009)

My phone is now Firmware 1.5, build CRB43.  No obvious changes though, I assume it was just a bug fix...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 26, 2009)

If I got an unlocked G1 would it work with no probs on O2? Is there anything specific to T Mobile in this device?


----------



## dweller (May 26, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If I got an unlocked G1 would it work with no probs on O2? Is there anything specific to T Mobile in this device?



I've read reports from people happily using unlocked g1s with o2. 
There is no special t-mob stuff on the phone. 
I think the american version has a t-mob app called myfaves on it with 
 a sort of friends-family thing. 
but the uk g1 doesn't have this. 
you should be good to go.


----------



## dweller (May 26, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My phone is now Firmware 1.5, build CRB43.  No obvious changes though, I assume it was just a bug fix...



there was a security fix , 
 developers were unwittingly given access to your info on other developers apps rather than just their own.
 I don't like the idea of developers having access to my data full stop but there you go...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 26, 2009)

dweller said:


> I've read reports from people happily using unlocked g1s with o2.
> There is no special t-mob stuff on the phone.
> I think the american version has a t-mob app called myfaves on it with
> a sort of friends-family thing.
> ...



But what about firmware updates? Won't being on o2 mean my unit would be exempt from them if T Mobile are the ones pushing them out?


----------



## bmd (May 27, 2009)

Bought one yesterday, should be here tomorrow hopefully. 800 minutes, unlimited texts and data for £30pm. 

Can't wait! :excited:


----------



## bmd (May 28, 2009)

Well I 've got it, have plugged it in to charge it and after almost an hour it still won't turn on. Am I right in thinking that if it's plugged into the charger it should turn on whether the battery's charged or not?

Ok well it seems that I needed to take the battery out and reinsert it, as you do. It's working now. Woohoo!


----------



## dweller (May 28, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> But what about firmware updates? Won't being on o2 mean my unit would be exempt from them if T Mobile are the ones pushing them out?



good question, 
maybe something you could ask here

http://androidcommunity.com/forums/


----------



## editor (May 28, 2009)

Word is that there could be up to 20 new Android new phones this year. Here's the deal:



> There are three distinct flavors of Android, each with varying requirements and obligations to the handset makers and wireless providers.
> 
> * The obligation-free option: Handset makers are able to load Android with as many apps as they’d like except for official Google titles like Gmail or Google Talk
> * The small strings option: Just like above except the handset makers sign an agreement to load Google apps on the handset.
> * The bigger strings option or the no-censorship version: These phones have the “with Google” logo on the handset and include a range of Google apps.  These apps are not removed by the carrier or the handset maker and there will be zero limitation in the Android Market.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 28, 2009)

God knows why you'd want an Android handset without all the Google stuff though, isn't that kinda the main point of it all?

Or am I missing something?


----------



## Sunray (May 28, 2009)

Android is meant to be a mobile phone platform. 

Not a mobile phone platform for Google.  It wouldn't be taken very seriously if it was that.  Perhaps that's been one of the stumbling blocks.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 28, 2009)

Maybe, but (for me anyway) the main attraction has been how utterly slick all the Google stuff is on it...


----------



## onemonkey (May 28, 2009)

I just got a HTC _sufficiently advanced technology_..

they're not wrong


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 28, 2009)

onemonkey said:


> I just got a HTC _sufficiently advanced technology_..
> 
> they're not wrong


----------



## cliche guevara (May 28, 2009)

Arthur C. Clarke said:
			
		

> Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2009)

zing!


----------



## purplex (May 28, 2009)

Android on Ubuntu


----------



## bmd (May 28, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> But what about firmware updates? Won't being on o2 mean my unit would be exempt from them if T Mobile are the ones pushing them out?



You can download them off dev sites like XDA. 

You can also flash the G1 with hacked firmware and do stuff like save from your phone to SD card, there's already an app with an option in the menu to save to SD card. Gonna give it a go tomorrow.

Tutorials here.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2009)

Video of HTC Rom update running on G1.
http://androidguys.com/?p=5369


----------



## jayeola (May 31, 2009)

purplex said:


> Android on Ubuntu



http://arstechnica.com/open-source/...rs-aim-to-make-android-apps-run-on-ubuntu.ars

__not__
http://http://arstechnica.com/open-...rs-aim-to-make-android-apps-run-on-ubuntu.ars


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

This looks interesting:


> Android/Windows: PdaNet makes the software that makes iPhone-to-laptop tethering kind of easy. They've now released an Android app that's even easier to install, hook up, and use to get a net connection where Wi-Fi is scarce.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://lifehacker.com/5284420/pdanet-tethers-android-phones-to-laptops-with-ease


----------



## dweller (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> This looks interesting:
> 
> 
> http://lifehacker.com/5284420/pdanet-tethers-android-phones-to-laptops-with-ease



This seems awfully fiddly, 
there are much simpler (and also free) tethering apps for android which don't require special software installation on the laptop.
..or maybe I'm missing something - its a long day at work.....

edit 2 add: here is the app I was talking about 
http://code.google.com/p/android-wifi-tether/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2009)

dweller said:


> edit 2 add: here is the app I was talking about
> http://code.google.com/p/android-wifi-tether/



Won't work on a standard handset, it needs root access.

By the look of it the app that Ed has linked to works on a bog standard phone.

Which is a good thing


----------



## dweller (Jun 10, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Won't work on a standard handset, it needs root access.
> 
> By the look of it the app that Ed has linked to works on a bog standard phone.
> 
> Which is a good thing



I knew there'd be something I'd missed, 
 good news for everyone!!


----------



## bmd (Jun 10, 2009)

*Adobe to release Flash for Google, Palm and Nokia powered phones*



> "Smart phones are where the game is now," says Kevin Lynch, Adobe's chief technology officer. "Our chips are on the table. We've made our bets."
> 
> But while Adobe later this year will release a trial version of Flash for phones running operating systems made by Palm Inc., Google Inc. and Nokia Corp., there is still no timetable for a version of Flash that will run on Apple Inc.'s iPhone or Research In Motion Ltd.'s BlackBerry.



Link


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Have to say that the video camera on the G1 is *shockingly* bad in low light. Even my Treo 650 did a better job.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Have to say that the video camera on the G1 is *shockingly* bad in low light. Even my Treo 650 did a better job.



Same with the Magic. Still shots are also shite if in anything but daylight. I fail to see why HTC didn't put flash in either phone. Or at least a light in the style of SE's form a few years back.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 18, 2009)

The one in my Touch HD is pretty pants in low light as well. Maybe HTC just don't care enough about the camera?


----------



## cliche guevara (Jun 18, 2009)

I've learned to live without it. It'd be nice to have a decent camera tho, specially for those twitter moments.


----------



## dweller (Jul 4, 2009)

Yay, 
I've just majorly improved my G1 

I flashed an HTC Hero rom which has been optimized for the G1.
Now there is a new interface called touchflo which really doesn't work well on 
 the G1 due to lack of RAM. 
Luckily you can switch back to the normal home/launcher and everything runs very fast with that.
What makes this so good is all of the HTC applications included. 
The contacts screen and dialler are much better. 
Each contact can be linked to their facebook/flickr ID so its easy to see what they've been up to. 
There is an HTC twitter app which is great. 
The camera app is much better than the google standard one.
The calendar is superficially more attractive. 
The photo albums are much much improved with 
multi touch zooming.
The flickr/facebook photo integration with albums app is really nice.
The browser has multi touch zoom and adobe flash (the flash doesn't seem to work very well though)
There are sure to be other  bits and bobs I haven't discovered yet. 
I'm happy.

PS if you want to do this you'll have to root your phone. 
All info available here, though it can be hard if you are not technically minded.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448

if you need any tips PM me


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2009)

I might be doing just that soon!

Btw, the Google Voice search app is better than I expected. Bark your search into the phone and it almost always gets it right. Sure beats typing


----------



## sumimasen (Jul 5, 2009)

What's that Dweller, I didn't quite catch that? You're going to write a step-by-step guide for the U75 community on how to convert the G1 Dream into a G1 Hero?


----------



## tendo (Jul 5, 2009)

I put the JACHero rom on mine this aft and it's a lovely interface, really nice apps too, but my god it lags like mad. Camera is miles better though, images are a lot sharper and colours are cleaner.

The Cyanogen rom is the one to go for atm if you want speed, it fairly skips along.

Hopefully the lag issues with the Hero rom will be sorted soon.


----------



## dweller (Jul 6, 2009)

ignore - just whistling in the wind


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2009)

I reckon I'll hold back until a smoother Hero ROM becomes available. Does the flashed ROM take up more RAM?


----------



## tendo (Jul 6, 2009)

editor said:


> I reckon I'll hold back until a smoother Hero ROM becomes available. Does the flashed ROM take up more RAM?



The phone it's made for has more RAM than the G1, which is why it gets laggy as soon as you start opening apps. There are all sorts of permutations of the ROM atm that attempt to keep the interface and not the lag and you can also try overclocking the cpu with the SetCPU app but really it's the lack of RAM that causes the it. 

I would love to have the Hero ROM on my phone but can't do with the lag. The camera's great, best I've had. I'm trying the Rogers Ramjet one atm, it's the fastest I've tried but there's no other difference in apps or interface etc to the bog standard UK T-Mobile G1.


----------



## tendo (Jul 6, 2009)

There's a tutorial here on how to root your G1. I'd recommend putting Cyanogen's recovery image on as soon as you have root, then you can back your phone up before messing about with the ROMs.

There should be a tut on each ROM thread of how to flash it to your phone, they're pretty straight forward but if you get any problems there's plenty of people willing to help.

Link.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2009)

That looks a bit scary for my tastes - I think I'll just wait for the Palm Pre!


----------



## tendo (Jul 6, 2009)

editor said:


> That looks a bit scary for my tastes - I think I'll just wait for the Palm Pre!



You getting one on contract? I've seen them unlocked in the UK for £400.


----------



## dweller (Jul 6, 2009)

tendo said:


> The phone it's made for has more RAM than the G1, which is why it gets laggy as soon as you start opening apps. There are all sorts of permutations of the ROM atm that attempt to keep the interface and not the lag and you can also try overclocking the cpu with the SetCPU app but really it's the lack of RAM that causes the it.
> 
> I would love to have the Hero ROM on my phone but can't do with the lag. The camera's great, best I've had. I'm trying the Rogers Ramjet one atm, it's the fastest I've tried but there's no other difference in apps or interface etc to the bog standard UK T-Mobile G1.



Tendo, 
I'd highly recommend trying a hero rom such as JAC's but then add the old launcher apk and delete rosie.apk. 
You get all the benefits of the HTC apps (great camera, dialer etc) without the lag of the touchflo-rosie.
I'm finding it very stable with JAC 2.3.3 
The only thing I'm missing so far is the blinking LED for emails and texts is disabled.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2009)

tendo said:


> You getting one on contract? I've seen them unlocked in the UK for £400.


There's no Palm Pre's available yet that will work in the UK. The GSM version is expected shortly.


----------



## sumimasen (Jul 6, 2009)

Wrong thread oops.


----------



## tendo (Jul 6, 2009)

dweller said:


> Tendo,
> I'd highly recommend trying a hero rom such as JAC's but then add the old launcher apk and delete rosie.apk.
> You get all the benefits of the HTC apps (great camera, dialer etc) without the lag of the touchflo-rosie.
> I'm finding it very stable with JAC 2.3.3
> The only thing I'm missing so far is the blinking LED for emails and texts is disabled.



Thanks for that, I'll give it a go.  Only thing about getting rid of Rosie is that you lose the widgets, which are really great for showing the phone off, the weather and clock widgets especially.



editor said:


> There's no Palm Pre's available yet that will work in the UK. The GSM version is expected shortly.



Ok, a couple of days ago I saw a site saying they'd have stock by 6th July, but after looking just now they all seem to have moved the date back to October or are just taking pre-orders.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2009)

tendo said:


> Ok, a couple of days ago I saw a site saying they'd have stock by 6th July, but after looking just now they all seem to have moved the date back to October or are just taking pre-orders.


They must be making it up as they go along - the announcement is tomorrow and not even the most 'in the know' Palm rumour sites have offered a guess at the date!


----------



## tendo (Jul 6, 2009)

editor said:


> They must be making it up as they go along - the announcement is tomorrow and not even the most 'in the know' Palm rumour sites have offered a guess at the date!



They must be, this one is still saying 6th July and another was saying 30th Oct.

They probably just want to get your order and then keep you hanging on til they actually get stock. Nice pda though.


----------



## sumimasen (Jul 6, 2009)

What a skanky site!  They should be reported, how the hell can they predict the pricing of the Pre!?  Take your money and then what lol.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2009)

That is a tad cheeky.


----------



## tendo (Jul 6, 2009)

They're having a Palm Pre sale, down from £449.


----------



## Macabre (Jul 7, 2009)

Does anyone know of an ad buster that doesnt require rooting the phone?  I'm not tech savy enough to do it confidently.


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2009)

Google Voice coming to Android now, but no love for iPhone or webOS users....








> Google Voice, the sweet service that lets you redirect calls, transcribes your voicemails and way more, is finally coming to smartphones—but only Android and BlackBerry, for now. iPhone users, you can go have some coffee while you wait.
> 
> Vincent Paquet, a senior product manager for Google and cofounder of GrandCentral (Google Voice before its name change), announced that Google Voice will be coming to the Android Market and to BlackBerry, although users of the latter will have to download it directly from Google rather than App World for some reason. It'll let you have your Google Voice number displayed on the other end and show transcribed email inside the app, rather than forcing the use of a browser. The invite system of registration, however, will still be in place.
> 
> iPhone and WebOS are markedly absent; we can forgive a little tardiness at WebOS because the platform's so new, but iPhone? What gives? Isn't Skype already available? No explanation for the absence was given, but Google assures us it is definitely coming as soon as possible. [CNET]


More: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10286763-2.html


----------



## 6_6 (Jul 15, 2009)

HTC Hero is coming out soon - next week!
It's supposed to be better than HTC Magic.


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2009)

6_6 said:


> HTC Hero is coming out soon - next week!
> It's supposed to be better than HTC Magic.


Rumourt is that it's been put back to August.

Here's Lifehacker on the Google Voice app:


> *First Look at Google Voice for Android [Downloads]*
> 
> from Lifehacker by Kevin Purdy
> 
> ...


I haven't got an invite yet. Booo!

YouTube vid:


----------



## dweller (Jul 16, 2009)

I've got an invite for google voice, but it is for the USA only.
I really hope they can get it set up over here.

HulloMail is a UK based visual voicemail app for android. 
Sadly doing call diverts on T-mobile costs a bit so its more expensive than just listening to your normal voicemails. 
The guys from HulloMail have told me they are working on a deal with T-mob to make it free, but I haven't heard any updates from them.


----------



## editor (Aug 11, 2009)

Co Pilot has been released for Android. £26.



> It's designed for GPS-equipped touchscreen handsets, and adds a selection of new features. They include clearer guidance at complicated junctions, a speed limit indicator that alerts you if you exceed the limit, 3D landmarks for points of interest and a text-to-speech voice system that pronounces full street names.
> 
> There's also a walking mode, phone integration and speed camera alerts, along with "live" services that include weather, traffic, and fuel price data. There's also the ability to track your CoPilot-owning friends, like Google's "Latitude" service.


http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/new...-unveiled-android-windows-mobile-phones.phtml


----------



## dweller (Aug 12, 2009)

hullomail  the visual voicemail app
 have struck up a deal with t-mobile so any diverts to their number just go out of your minutes and 
are not added to your monthly bill. 
your voicemails are then emailed to you,
I get mine thru gmail and just listen to the attachment although there is a standalone app


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 13, 2009)

Lol that's long! I love the simplicity of VVM on the iPhone.


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol that's long! I love the simplicity of VVM on the iPhone.


Hopefully I'll be loving the turbo-charged simplicity of Google Voice soon.


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2009)

HTC has already shifted a million Magic handsets, which is pretty swift going.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/13/htc-reportedly-moves-a-million-magic-smartphones-boogies-down-a/


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 13, 2009)

That's good, shows that people are intrested in it and hopefully HTC make more of their new handsets for android, rather then just winmo. I'd like to see them do another device with a hardware keyboard.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Hopefully I'll be loving the turbo-charged simplicity of Google Voice soon.



Heh although I know which one I'd rather have.


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh although I know which one I'd rather have.


Yep. Google Voice looks to be a truly revolutionary mobile product. Can't wait to have a go on it.


----------



## dweller (Aug 17, 2009)

*One click root your phone app*

http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2009/08/16/android-rooting-in-1-click-in-progress/

Instructions are on that page to root your android phone with one click^

If you want to root your g1 or magic but have been too afraid to fiddle 
 then download the app (I think its available on market now)
It applies a new recovery app to the phone made by Cyanogen (a very good android developer).
Then you can choose which rom you want to update to.
A simple way of doing this would be to download the app "jfupdater" as 
 this would automatically download the update and get you to the latest stable JF rom which has no fancy extras apart from being rooted. 

Do this at your own risk!!!
It's not my fault if you brick your phone. 
I'm just passing on the message


----------



## grit (Aug 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Yep. Google Voice looks to be a truly revolutionary mobile product. Can't wait to have a go on it.



Has there actually been confirmation that its going to be rolled out in the UK?


----------



## bmd (Aug 17, 2009)

@dweller - I changed mine back to bog standard as I got tired of all the niggly little things that every other ROM has. If there's ever one that has all the best bits of every other then I'll give it a go but really it seemed a bit pointless.


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2009)

Ooh! A system update is underway....


----------



## dweller (Aug 18, 2009)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> @dweller - I changed mine back to bog standard as I got tired of all the niggly little things that every other ROM has. If there's ever one that has all the best bits of every other then I'll give it a go but really it seemed a bit pointless.



I use one called JACx1.3

It is very stable, fast and looks great.
Has the better htc keyboard and some useful widgets
 and a very cool looking clock.
Includes some useful apps like pdf reader.
I'd never go back to the standard edition,
 but each to their own.


----------



## dweller (Aug 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Ooh! A system update is underway....



thats probably patching the vulnerability exposed by the one click root app.


----------



## cliche guevara (Aug 19, 2009)

I've got a bit of a problem downloading apps at the minute... Some (about one in five) don't seem to download, but just sit in the 'downloads' section, either saying 'starting download' or 'downloading', but with nothing happening. This is a recent development. I'm in a good signal area, and it doesn't seem to make a difference if it's wi-fi or 3G.


----------



## bmd (Aug 19, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> I've got a bit of a problem downloading apps at the minute... Some (about one in five) don't seem to download, but just sit in the 'downloads' section, either saying 'starting download' or 'downloading', but with nothing happening. This is a recent development. I'm in a good signal area, and it doesn't seem to make a difference if it's wi-fi or 3G.



Does it make a difference if you reboot? Maybe an app that you started using recently is causing the error?


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> I've got a bit of a problem downloading apps at the minute... Some (about one in five) don't seem to download, but just sit in the 'downloads' section, either saying 'starting download' or 'downloading', but with nothing happening. This is a recent development. I'm in a good signal area, and it doesn't seem to make a difference if it's wi-fi or 3G.


Try cancelling the download and starting again. Works for me.


----------



## cliche guevara (Aug 19, 2009)

Rebooting doesn't help. Cancelling the download and starting again usually solves it, but not always. I was hoping that this was a common problem with an eawy fix.


----------



## dweller (Aug 19, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Rebooting doesn't help. Cancelling the download and starting again usually solves it, but not always. I was hoping that this was a common problem with an eawy fix.



this does happen to me from time to time, 
but rarely. 
sometimes switching wifi on and off and 3g/2g toggle
gets things running again. 
This also used to happen to me when I was running out of space on the internal memory where the apps are installed.
Now I install all my apps on the sd card so I never run low on internal memory.
I think this helps with overall performance as well.


----------



## cliche guevara (Aug 19, 2009)

Toggling switches does help, but the problem keeps coming back. It used to be that it was rare enough to not bother me, but it's affecting half my downloads now...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 7, 2009)

> Fanboys the world over swooned over the HTC Touch HD when it launched last year, but word is that HTC's planning on making a major change to its high-res handset for the sequel: it's switching to Android. That's at least the hot whisper 'round the tubes this afternoon, and while that would ordinarily be enough to make the 'droidboys to go crazy, there's even more -- the CPU is reportedly a 628MHz Qualcomm chip, not the slightly overtaxed 528MHz number we've seen in every other Android handset to date. Sure, it's just a measly 100MHz, but if that's enough to make Sense and HD video on the 3.8-inch 480 x 800 display run smoothly we'll be all grins. If any of this is true, that is.



Engadet


Looks like its a mock up, but an Android device with a higher res, bigger screen would sweet!

Now if they could a do a device like the Touch Pro 2 with Android, I might even be tempted to upgrade.

No mention of capacitive touch yet, personally I hope they stick with resistive, but I know I'm in the minority here. 

The folks over at xda are working on porting Android at the moment, I wonder if this will help there efforts!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 7, 2009)

480 lines is not HD  fucking marketing


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2009)

Crispy said:


> 480 lines is not HD  fucking marketing


It's mighty big though, and 800 x 480 is a huge step up from the comparatively tiddly 480 x 320 screens seen on most other high-end smartphones.

On a related note, there's now over 10,000 Android apps available, 64% of which are free.

http://www.androidtapp.com/android-market-now-more-than-10000-android-apps/


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2009)

Pandora released for Android: http://www.pandora.com/android

US only at the mo. Bah!


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 9, 2009)

Also, the official Facebook app was launched yesterday. It's not bad, but not great. I think I'll stick with m.facebook.com.


----------



## bmd (Sep 9, 2009)

editor said:


> Pandora released for Android: http://www.pandora.com/android
> 
> US only at the mo. Bah!



That's a bugger. Oh well, at least it's on there for when Pandora start up over here again.


----------



## dweller (Sep 10, 2009)

New Motorola android phone announced called
 MotoCliq.
Will be on Orange in the UK.










http://www.t-mobile.com/promotions/GenericRegular.aspx?PAsset=Pro_Pro_MotoCliqLaunch&WT.mc_id=637m3

UI is called MotoBlur and seems like it uses some motorola widgets and apps to create an integrated 
social network/email/sms feed so your inbox will contain all your messages together. You can look at a demo on the link I posted above.
What interests me is the hard keyboard and d-pad so I can mess about 
 with emulator games (yes I'm a big kid)
I won't be getting it though as by the time my G1 contract expires there is 
 sure to be something better on the market.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 10, 2009)

Nice to see someone other then HTC getting android phones out.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2009)

It's not a bad looking phone but I wonder if it'll be enough to save Motorola's ailing phone division?


----------



## grit (Sep 11, 2009)

editor said:


> It's not a bad looking phone but I wonder if it'll be enough to save Motorola's ailing phone division?



Extremely doubtful


----------



## g force (Sep 11, 2009)

Same here...company is all buy dead in the water as handset maker.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 15, 2009)

> In an all-too brief teaser at a press conference across the pond, Archos decided to give a few more details and a teaser pic of the Android phone it announced back in February. According to the slide, it's got a 4.3-inch touchscreen with 854 x 480 resolution, a 1GHz ARM processor -- likely comparable to Archos 5, but pretty powerful considering what all other Android phones have so far arrived with -- and a 10mm-thick shell. Size and specs-wise, it matches up quite handily to the Snapdragon- and Windows Mobile-powered Toshiba TG01, although that one's already taking up retail shelf space, and it looks like we'll be waiting for some of those infamous Archos leaks if we want any more information the phone tablet in the near future.



Sweet a high end android phone. Just as I was getting excited about the Touch Pro 2, HTC announced a 1Ghz WinMo 6.5 device, which shows their high end stuff isn't going be android for a while yet.

Nice to see archos getting in on the market!


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2009)

I had a go on the Palm Pre today. The design of the interface and the overall user experience was _leagues_ above my G1.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 6, 2009)

Engadget


I see the Motorola DEXT is on sale today. Anyone getting one? My understanding of Moto is ok phones with a shit OS, so intresting to see if Android changes this.

My only experience with them was an A1000, a full touch screen phone running symbian, back in 2004 which was years ahead of its time, so I know my experiences aren't typical with this company.


----------



## untethered (Oct 6, 2009)

Hey want to meet for coffee?


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2009)

Video and specs here: http://www.wirefresh.com/motorola-dext-on-sale-in-the-uk-now-on-orange/

I've lost the Android love.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 6, 2009)

It cant be that bad, can it?  Looked OK and finger friendly.

Perhaps later version of the OS's will be better.  I was surprised that HTC included the TouchFlo system on one.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> It cant be that bad, can it?  Looked OK and finger friendly.
> 
> Perhaps later version of the OS's will be better.  I was surprised that HTC included the TouchFlo system on one.



I did a double take when I saw it, it looks just like their winmo phones from the screen shots I've seen.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 6, 2009)

1.6 should be rolling out in the very near future, apparently it's appeared on t-mobile in the USA, and the new phones are launching with it. Anyone seen it on their HTC phones yet?


----------



## sumimasen (Oct 15, 2009)

If my Tmobile G1 also works when I put in my spare o2 simcard, does this mean that this G1 is unlocked?


----------



## Ozric (Oct 15, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> 1.6 should be rolling out in the very near future, apparently it's appeared on t-mobile in the USA, and the new phones are launching with it. Anyone seen it on their HTC phones yet?


Should be Monday 19th Oct for Magic's.


----------



## sumimasen (Oct 15, 2009)

Wotz this 1.6 then?  Anything I should know about before I dump my Android tomorrow for a Palm Pre?


----------



## Ozric (Oct 15, 2009)

sumimasen said:


> Wotz this 1.6 then?  Anything I should know about before I dump my Android tomorrow for a Palm Pre?





> Regarding new and enhanced features, Android 1.6 includes:
> An improved Android Market experience that makes it easier to discover great applications.
> An integrated camera, camcorder, and gallery interface.
> Updated Voice Search, with faster response and deeper integration with native applications, including the ability to dial contacts.
> ...


Source

From what I've been reading Eclair or 2.0 should also be out soon, maybe even December but Android is still very much a developing OS so if your impatient jumping to the Pre is probably for you...


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2009)

Flyscreen for the Android is fantastic, although I suspect a battery hog and a half.

I'm still sold on the Palm Pre: if I get my hands on the thing:
http://www.wirefresh.com/carphone-warehouse-and-palm-pre-the-palm-what/


----------



## Ozric (Oct 15, 2009)

Nice tip Ed, had a little play with flyscreen and it does look damn good!


----------



## dweller (Oct 15, 2009)

I'm not so keen on flyscreen as the feeds are too short, but I do love me some Buzz Deck!!!
http://blog.mippin.com/


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2009)

dweller said:


> I'm not so keen on flyscreen as the feeds are too short, but I do love me some Buzz Deck!!!
> http://blog.mippin.com/


You can scroll the feeds, but I'll take a look at Buzz Deck.


----------



## Ozric (Oct 19, 2009)

Anyone got their Donut yet?


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 19, 2009)

Yup, got Donut last thursday. The markt is a lot cleaner and more functional, the camera is vastly improved, there's a useful battery utility in the settings menu, and the phone seems a little more efficient. A lot of my apps still don't have 1.6 updates tho and as such are unusable... The biggest gripe here being google search by voice, surely google should have their own apps ready?


----------



## Ozric (Oct 21, 2009)

I got impatient and upgraded manually with info from xda-developers.
Very happy with the improved performance but lost my Hero Keyboard as it wasn't compatible, will hopefully find another version as I do prefer it.
Agreed Cliche, it does seem slack to release a version that isn't compatible with existing Google apps....hopefully they'll rectify it soon.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 21, 2009)

The response time when switching from portrait to landscape and back has gotten about a thousand times faster. I'm not longer ashamed to show off this feature!


----------



## Ozric (Oct 21, 2009)

Hadn't tried that...nice


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 28, 2009)

Anyone rooted their Magic? How did you go about it? There seem to be several conflicting guides, and the fact that it's a 'with google' branded phone apparently makes it harder...


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 28, 2009)

Google Maps Navigation for Android 2.0 anyone else see this announcement? It's basically free satnav and competes directly with other products that cost $100s a year.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2009)

Goodbye Tom Tom and Garmin! That's going to royally fuck them up.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 28, 2009)

Anyone got any opinions on the HTC tattoo?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2009)

editor said:


> Goodbye Tom Tom and Garmin! That's going to royally fuck them up.



No it won't because it still needs to get the maps online. There are massive advantages to having locally stored maps when using Sat Nav.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 28, 2009)

I'll always prefer Garmin for off-road GPS - proper battery performance, rugged waterproof casing, and (alomst) decent topographic maps.


----------



## grit (Oct 28, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> No it won't because it still needs to get the maps online. There are massive advantages to having locally stored maps when using Sat Nav.



The map tiles are not local to the device??? That makes it close to totally useless in the car.


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 28, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> No it won't because it still needs to get the maps online. There are massive advantages to having locally stored maps when using Sat Nav.



The link I posted says it updates online, but doesn't say they aren't stored locally once downloaded... or am I missing something?


----------



## citydreams (Oct 28, 2009)

several gigs of data


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2009)

citydreams said:


> I'll always prefer Garmin for off-road GPS - proper battery performance, rugged waterproof casing, and (alomst) decent topographic maps.



That's not really competition though is it, its a different product.

I prefer to use the tiny basic unit in combination with an OS map, although running Memory Map on my Touch HD is very impressive! I'm surprised Garmin haven't licensed OS mapping, rather then bother with their own inferior maps.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2009)

fen_boy said:


> The link I posted says it updates online, but doesn't say they aren't stored locally once downloaded... or am I missing something?



It's google, they're not going to let you download the whole UK in one hit. Even if its downloading what you need for the route, what happens if you find yourself somewhere like the Yorkshire Dales with all roads in the valley flooded and phone signal.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 28, 2009)

ok.. was really just responding to Ed saying they're in trouble.. I think they're better off being niche players.  

Not sure what the beef is between Garmin and OS though.. Garmin are quite cagey..


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> No it won't because it still needs to get the maps online. There are massive advantages to having locally stored maps when using Sat Nav.


The Android app will store inputted routes in its cache. Moreover, it'll be able to offer far more in-depth and relevant location based services too.

This is being aimed at car/lorry drivers right now, but it's going to knock on into different areas. 

Tom Tom shares have just crashed by a colossal 20%. Garmins have plummeted by 15%.


----------



## citydreams (Oct 28, 2009)

editor said:


> Garmins have plummeted by 15%.



*backs away from thread*


----------



## fen_boy (Oct 28, 2009)

The Register says it will cache maps for your journey, but that's it. So maybe not a full replacement for Tomtom, especially not if you're travelling abroad.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2009)

editor said:


> The Android app will store inputted routes in its cache. Moreover, it'll be able to offer far more in-depth and relevant location based services too.



See my example above about why just having inputted routes in the cache is not enough. Also what happens if you want to plan your own route rather then rely on it to guide you - a feature I often use when away from main roads.

That said I can see a massive advantage with location based services and constant updates, I just don't want something that depends on a net connection, but takes advantage of it when it can.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> See my example above about why just having inputted routes in the cache is not enough. Also what happens if you want to plan your own route rather then rely on it to guide you - a feature I often use when away from main roads.


Unless you're driving through the outback of Australia or something, I don't really see the problem as you're unlikely to be out of coverage for hours on end.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 28, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> Anyone got any opinions on the HTC tattoo?



Resistive touch screen. Fail.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2009)

editor said:


> Unless you're driving through the outback of Australia or something, I don't really see the problem as you're unlikely to be out of coverage for hours on end.



You really don't need to go that far to find spots in the UK with no coverage, plenty round my way. So the road ahead is flooded/closed...do you just drive around aimlessly hoping to get a phone signal? 

Many parts of the UK don't even have Edge yet, so even if you do have signal downloading maps could be a painful affair.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> You really don't need to go that far to find spots in the UK with no coverage, plenty round my way. So the road ahead is flooded/closed...do you just drive around aimlessly hoping to get a phone signal?


Pretty sure it'll cache the data of the route ahead when it has a connection and seeing as it's tied in with Google Live Traffic, it'll already know what roads are closed. In fact, the maps will be more up to date than its competitors.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2009)

Oh dear.  Check out the stock market.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2009)

editor said:


> Pretty sure it'll cache the data of the route ahead when it has a connection and seeing as it's tied in with Google Live Traffic, it'll already know what roads are closed. In fact, the maps will be more up to date than its competitors.



You've obviously got more faith in Google's all seeing eye then I have. I'm sure Live Traffic is great on major roads...when it gets out to the sticks, then we'll see. 

For the time being, I'll stick to fast local searches as my primary sat nav, but will no doubt install it when it comes out for other platforms. When the two can be combined that will be ace.


----------



## Ozric (Oct 28, 2009)

I spent a week on the Isle of Wight using google maps on my Magic, occasional drops in signal but you still have the route in front of you and it show's your location....just no map.  I'm sure that's something that could be resolved with localised caching or something though.
All in all it was nearly as helpful as full on sat nav, can't wait for the new version.


----------



## cliche guevara (Oct 31, 2009)

Comprehensive review of the Droid on engadget.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/30/motorola-droid-review/


----------



## hiccup (Nov 8, 2009)

I just got a PAYG T-Mobile Pulse:







£176 for a brand new Android phone. It's very shiny and lovely. And half the price of a Hero. Just got to wait a month so T-Mobile will sell me an unlock code so I can use my O2 sim  

It's got Android 1.5 installed, and it's only got 60Mb of internal memory, so I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to upgrade to 2.0, but it does pretty much everything I want a phone to do. The Gmail app is a joy to use, easier than in a full browser tbh, Google Sky Maps is crazy sexy cool, and the beebplayer app is vey slick.


----------



## Velouria (Nov 9, 2009)

I've got myself an Android phone now, one of the (now) cheapo ones - a Motorola DEXT (aka CLIQ in the States). It's nice


----------



## Sunray (Nov 18, 2009)

I've been reading that the Android platform has been slowly doing what I suggested they shouldn't do.  Diverge the platform.  Different screen sizes and hardware and software make for a more difficult target for developers and has devalued the brand.  The App store has 100k apps because its just one target.  Not lots of code with if device=moto.droid then ... else if device=htc.g1 then blah blah.  

This means that the iPhone as a platform for mobile computing is becoming ever stronger.

I am a little puzzled at Google for not having a firmer hand with the platform to prevent such dilution.  if you were to look at my posts earlier in this thread I am sure I mentioned that getting so many manufacturers on board means you just have to tug the forelock and accept this is going to happen.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I've been reading that the Android platform has been slowly doing what I suggested they shouldn't do.  Diverge the platform.  Different screen sizes and hardware and software make for a more difficult target for developers and has devalued the brand.  The App store has 100k apps because its just one target.  Not lots of code with if device=moto.droid then ... else if device=htc.g1 then blah blah.


Except this policy is going to make the platform near-ubiquitous, meaning development costs for a whole range of products will always be heading downwards _al la Microsoft_.

I really like the Android platform but have to say that after constantly switching between the two, the interface of the webOS is simply _miles ahead. _


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2009)

How are you getting on with the keyboard on the Pre Ed?  I had a quick play on one in a shop this morning and my first impression was that it was horribly small.

The OS is lovely though...


----------



## Sunray (Nov 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Except this policy is going to make the platform near-ubiquitous, meaning development costs for a whole range of products will always be heading downwards _al la Microsoft_.
> 
> I really like the Android platform but have to say that after constantly switching between the two, the interface of the webOS is simply _miles ahead. _



Screen size makes it very difficult unless you develop the applications front end for every screen size out there? Makes games a non-starter.  

More platforms out there the more costs go up unless you restrict to a set of device parameters.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> How are you getting on with the keyboard on the Pre Ed?  I had a quick play on one in a shop this morning and my first impression was that it was horribly small.
> 
> The OS is lovely though...


I get on with it just fine, tbh, no problems at all.

I can't explain how big the the gulf between the Pre and the G1 is. The webOS is a pleasure to use, and it's ruddy great the way you can open the phone and just start typing and it'll search data on your phone or let you directly search for it on Google/Twitter/Wikipedia etc.

What the phone lacks in apps it easily makes up for in usability. And the Synergy feature is superb. My G1 feels like it's at least a generation behind in comparison.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> More platforms out there the more costs go up unless you restrict to a set of device parameters.


Not if its an open source OS.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2009)

editor said:


> it's ruddy great the way you can open the phone and just start typing and it'll search data on your phone or let you directly search for it on Google



What, exactly like my G1 does?


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What, exactly like my G1 does?


And Twitter/Wikipedia/Google Maps and from any screen with no typing in a box needed? Trust me - the webOS is streets ahead of Android.


----------



## Xanadu (Nov 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Not if its an open source OS.



I can't see how being open source makes that much difference.  Having to target different screen sizes and form factors means extra dev/test work.


----------



## hiccup (Dec 17, 2009)

My lovely T-Mobile Pulse has died. Wouldn't boot. Some sort of software issue. Took it into the shop, won't get it back for 2-3 weeks 

Should have just flashed the software myself, dammit.


----------



## oicur0t (Dec 17, 2009)

Xanadu said:


> I can't see how being open source makes that much difference.  Having to target different screen sizes and form factors means extra dev/test work.



It makes a big difference. Testing is testing, you'll (or should) do it anyway. Also the cost for testing could be taken up by the package owners (developers), not the handset manufacturers. You can test most things without a finished phone. The reasoning behind open source development is partly to reduce the time to market which is a major factor in phone development.


----------



## subversplat (Dec 17, 2009)

Well, I just put an order in for a G2 (Hero on T-Mobile) so we'll see how this goes. I've got 7 days to return if it's worse than my current WinMo phone


----------



## dweller (Dec 18, 2009)

subversplat said:


> Well, I just put an order in for a G2 (Hero on T-Mobile) so we'll see how this goes. I've got 7 days to return if it's worse than my current WinMo phone



I use the Hero GUI on my G1 and its nice. 
Flickr and facebook are integrated pretty well (especially in the photo gallery)
you have multi touch pinch zoom in photo gallery and browser. 
I prefer to use dolphin browser now.

htc cameras are not all that though


----------



## Sunray (Dec 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Not if its an open source OS.



???

The costs go up because someone has to edit the code to make it work on new hardware.  The more changes the more work people have to do. Some lowly bod in his bedroom isn't going to make changes for free for Sony or who ever makes phone hardware just for the hell of it are they?

Then there are developers who might consider making a coin or two from the platform, they have to code it so that it works on as many platforms as possible, which means they have to do extra work for no extra functionality.  This is an extra cost to the developer and eventually the buyer because they are going to pay more.


----------



## subversplat (Dec 22, 2009)

Well I've had my T-Mobile branded G2 (Hero) for a few days now and I like it, it can stay 

Now I'm looking at custom ROMs from MoDaCo - has anybody here tried that yet?


----------



## hiccup (Dec 22, 2009)

subversplat said:


> Well I've had my T-Mobile branded G2 (Hero) for a few days now and I like it, it can stay
> 
> Now I'm looking at custom ROMs from MoDaCo - has anybody here tried that yet?


 
No but I'd be interested to hear how you get on...


----------



## subversplat (Dec 22, 2009)

hiccup said:


> No but I'd be interested to hear how you get on...


Not going to do it today, but by the end of the week I'll have done it


----------



## live_jayeola (Dec 22, 2009)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/6864840/Google-Nexus-One-pictures-leaked-online.html


----------



## subversplat (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm surprised at the relatively low-level chatter about the new Acer phones - the Acer Liquid is an android phone with a 1ghz Snapdragon....

Oh for a bundle of toy cash


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## live_jayeola (Dec 22, 2009)

Most of the tweets that I've come across for the Acer Liquid are in "non European characters". Impying that it's going to come out in Asia first?


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## subversplat (Dec 22, 2009)

El Reg got one, although apparently HTC knocked a quarter of the cycles off, leaving it with a _768mhz_ Snapdragon. Still half-as-fast-again as the HTC Hero.


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## live_jayeola (Dec 22, 2009)

shiny plastic casing? What about us butter fingered massive?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 24, 2009)

Grrr, I have finally got my htc tattoo to sync but I still can't put videos on it. How the bloody hell do you do it? I can put folders on the desktop but when I try to look at it from a PC to plop a video on there is nothing there. Just the hard drive. Fucking bollocks it is.


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## mack (Dec 24, 2009)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Grrr, I have finally got my htc tattoo to sync but I still can't put videos on it. How the bloody hell do you do it? I can put folders on the desktop but when I try to look at it from a PC to plop a video on there is nothing there. Just the hard drive. Fucking bollocks it is.



http://androidforums.com/htc-tattoo/


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## dweller (Jan 7, 2010)

this lenovo "Le Phone" being released in china looks interesting.
It is android but has a UI that seems to steal from iphone and palm pre.
Looks like a cute consumer phone rather than a serious thing.







it can magnetically connect to a peripheral keyboard 





article here


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 7, 2010)

mack said:


> http://androidforums.com/htc-tattoo/



Don't worry I got it all sorted last week. I am watching films under the covers all cosy and warm every night now. 
. . . and when I have to get up and sit with my daughter when she wakes up in the night I now have something to keep me sane.


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## Sunray (Jan 12, 2010)

I see that what I said might happen with the fragmentation to the platform.  There are now disgruntled manufacturers and the OS is being complained about with the release of the Nexus and the lack of a SDK to support it.  

Can you imagine Microsoft releasing an OS without 1st releasing the SDK to go with it and doing all that a long long time before they actually sell that OS? I can't because its never happened, with all their faults, they do know what they are doing on several fronts.


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## editor (Jan 12, 2010)

The Lenovo phone looks well lush.


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## grit (Jan 12, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I see that what I said might happen with the fragmentation to the platform.



True to form, history is repeating itself. Android is this generations J2ME.


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## Ozric (Jan 14, 2010)

Android 2.1 looks to be on it's way to Hero and Magic owners quicker than expected:

Android 2.1 coming to HTC Hero next month


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## editor (Jan 14, 2010)

Excellent app for viewing the boards on Android here!

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=314141


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## Maurice Picarda (Sep 4, 2010)

vincy said:


> .



If you're a bot, your other posts have been a pretty lacklustre attempt at passing the Turing test.


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## editor (May 24, 2012)

editor said:


> You don't seem to understand how big this announcement is. There are a huge number of industry big players involved, all looking to develop for this new platform. It's potentially the biggest change in the mobile market for years and may end up crushing the dominance of Microsoft, Palm, RIM and Apple.Seeing as there's a good chance that the 'average person in the street' will end up using a phone powered by this new OS, I'd say it's of general interest.


That post was from 2007 as the Android OS was announced.

And today: 
Android’s world domination continues, capturing 59 per cent of the global smartphone market


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## ExtraRefined (May 24, 2012)

You smug git.

I really wanted to put something here berating you for not profiting from this confidence, but in fact if you'd gone long GOOG on the day of the announcement you'd be down about 15%.


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## editor (May 24, 2012)

*I should point out that I've also posted loads of bollocks too, but got lucky with this one.


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