# Batman Begins



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2004)

Crap title I know; they should of named it after the graphic novel this looks influenced by, Batman: Year One. Just watched the very slight teaser trailer and apart from a couple of cringe worthy lines in it the look and feel of Batman Begins seems about right (right to any long time reader of the better comics that is)! I’m actually a little surprised because I figured this was going to be about as crap as the first Batman film but its looking quite cool so far.

Official website


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## souljacker (Aug 5, 2004)

angry idiot said:
			
		

> Crap title I know; they should of named it after the graphic novel this looks influenced by, Batman: Year One. Just watched the very slight teaser trailer and apart from a couple of cringe worthy lines in it the look and feel of Batman Begins seems about right (right to any long time reader of the better comics that is)! I’m actually a little surprised because I figured this was going to be about as crap as the first Batman film but its looking quite cool so far.
> 
> Official website



It certainly does look very stylish and star studded. Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman and, is that Gary Oldman I see? I couldn't turn up the sound because I'm at work so what was all that climbing up a mountain nonsense about? I dont think I've ever read year one but I don't remember Batman's story including anything like that.

Fucking Shite title though.


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## Termite Man (Aug 5, 2004)

angry idiot said:
			
		

> I figured this was going to be about as crap as the first Batman film but its looking quite cool so far.



Do you mean the '60s batman film or the first Tim Burton Batman film ?

If this is based on year one it should be quite good . I expect it will get fucked up somehow though  .


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## Balbi (Aug 5, 2004)

Tim Burtons Batman was quality. The second one was ace too. After that, it fucked up.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2004)

Isn't Christian Bale playing Batman in this one?

If so good, cos he's a decent brooding action here type (Equilibrium was great IMHO).

Who's directing this one?


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## g force (Aug 5, 2004)

Nolan - he of Memento.

I rate Bale as a good actor...coudl be interesting. Very shit title though!


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2004)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> Tim Burtons Batman was quality. The second one was ace too. After that, it fucked up.


 The first was shit but Burton got his act together for the second. 

@souljacker, in Year One I think it makes reference to him going travelling, learning martial arts etc and "finding himself".


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## Idaho (Aug 5, 2004)

It's the bloke who directed Pi - whatever his name is.

The climbing the mountain is coherant with Official Batman mythology. He goes to Tibet to become the greatest martial artist ever. The falling down the well as a boy is consistent too.

I bet they will fuck it up. Although they just have to get hold of Batman 404-407 as the story board, dialogue etc is already there.


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## Balbi (Aug 5, 2004)

Aronofsky?

He's good. Very dark.

That'll do.


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## Idaho (Aug 5, 2004)

Hmm G Force is saying Nolan. I am probably wrong about Aronofsky... let me check..

Oh.. change of personnel has led to the confusion:



> 02/03/03
> Director Darren Aronofsky (Pi, Requiem for a Dream) has all-but-officially left his version (Batman: Year One) of the fifth Batman movie, leaving director Chris Nolan (Insomnia, Memento) to revive the franchise. (Comics2Film, Cinema Confidential)


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2004)

I think they could learn alot by reading the first thirty odd issues of Legend of the Dark Night and of course The Dark Night Returns (hell why not throw in the Killing Joke?!).


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## Idaho (Aug 5, 2004)

Actually it sounds as if they have fucked this up again (groan)

Plot Spoilers

Oh they can't just do a simple job can they?


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2004)

Idaho said:
			
		

> Hmm G Force is saying Nolan. I am probably wrong about Aronofsky... let me check..
> 
> Oh.. change of personnel has led to the confusion:


 Oh yeah forgot that...oh dear this doesn't look good because his last film was Insomnia which was a big pile of shite.


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## YojimboUK (Aug 5, 2004)

Nolan -- the man's a god if he can get some control of a project. Memento is one of the finest films of the last ten years.

Aronofsky's off doing The Fountainhead. Lordy help us.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Aug 6, 2004)

angry idiot said:
			
		

> Crap title I know; they should of named it after the graphic novel this looks influenced by, Batman: Year One. Just watched the very slight teaser trailer and apart from a couple of cringe worthy lines in it the look and feel of Batman Begins seems about right (right to any long time reader of the better comics that is)! I’m actually a little surprised because I figured this was going to be about as crap as the first Batman film but its looking quite cool so far.
> 
> Official website



What are you talking about!!!!!  The first batman film, along with the other Tim Burton one Batman Returns, was a classic.  The later two, Forever and Batman and Robin, were abysmal though.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 6, 2004)

All the Batman films were crud, apart from the movie version of the 60s TV series.
I only enjoy comic book films when their duffness is acknowleged and they are played strictly for laughs and camped up to the max.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2004)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> What are you talking about!!!!!  The first batman film, along with the other Tim Burton one Batman Returns, was a classic.  The later two, Forever and Batman and Robin, were abysmal though.


 Nope, ya wrong the first was crap; a real pile of shite that served no purpose other than to let Jacky boy wank around being a prize fool (he was a crap choice for the Joker imo)! Number two however showed how good the franchise could have been if they hadn’t got rid of Burton, the closest to the comics ever committed to film imo.


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## Idaho (Aug 6, 2004)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> All the Batman films were crud, apart from the movie version of the 60s TV series.
> I only enjoy comic book films when their duffness is acknowleged and they are played strictly for laughs and camped up to the max.



Quite the opposite. The who camped up stuff has been completely overdone and is boring as hell.

I actually thought that of the films Batman and Robin was the best.

However the best on screen Batman is the animated series. Really nice stylised animation and very true to the original mythology.


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## R.I.C.O. (Aug 6, 2004)

*...*



> actually thought that of the films Batman and Robin was the best.



WHAT?! Batman and Robin was awful, possibly one of the worst film's I've ever seen...Batman had a CREDIT CARD for fucks sake! There were FIVE bad guys, wooden acting, no character development, one-liners by Arnie The Republican, and...

...a zoom in on George Clooney's butt when they were about to fight Mr Freeze.

They ruined the Batman character, and comic sales slumped as a result. Joel Schumacher should have been hanged for that abomination!

Batman and Batman Returns were ace, Tim Burton should never have passed on the Batman franchise. The stories were great, the cinematography was great, and the roles for Nicholson, Keaton, De Vito etc. were perfect. The score was ace too.

Batman and Robin the best of the series...that made me laugh....


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## Winston Legthigh (Aug 6, 2004)

it will be great, because.....TIM BOOTH IS IN IT!

yes, thats right pop pickers, Tim Booth, former singer out of James and all round legend has a small part as the baddie's henchman.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Aug 6, 2004)

angry idiot said:
			
		

> as crap as the first Batman film [/URL]



I cannot believe you said that


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## upsidedownwalrus (Aug 7, 2004)

angry idiot said:
			
		

> Nope, ya wrong the first was crap; a real pile of shite that served no purpose other than to let Jacky boy wank around being a prize fool (he was a crap choice for the Joker imo)! Number two however showed how good the franchise could have been if they hadn’t got rid of Burton, the closest to the comics ever committed to film imo.



Nonsense, it was a masterpiece, dark and gothic, true to the later comic books.  And Jack Nicholson a crap joker!  What are you on!!!!!


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## upsidedownwalrus (Aug 7, 2004)

I do remember that at the time that Batman was out, it was very over-hyped and a lot of people said it was rubbish.  I never watched it at the time, but about a year after on video, and loved it.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Aug 7, 2004)

*Did you ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?*

Well I saw it in the cinema and had the videogame, the T-shirt (2), the board game, the soundtrack and a small plastic Batman. The T-shirts where amazingly cool, my favourite featuring a crazy picture of the joker with cartoon style writing saying 'if you want to make an omlette you gotta break some eggs'.


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2004)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Nonsense, it was a masterpiece, dark and gothic, true to the later comic books.  And Jack Nicholson a crap joker!  What are you on!!!!!


 It was far from a master piece; I've read Batman comics for over 15 years and this was a joke (scissors on the Batwing? C'mon!). Jack was a shite joker, all he did was ponce around being himself, he didnt bother to even try and get the character right. It was a performance comparable to that camp bollox they put out as Batman in the 60s tv show.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Aug 7, 2004)

*'in my best simpson comic shop owner voice'*

No no no no, the Joker in the Tim Burton Batman film is a classic interpretation of the character. Even in the comics characters are re-inventeded and re-written time and time again. What about when batman retired and they had that wierdo in a robo suit replace him until everyone realised it was rubbish so Batman came back and killed him. The Jack Nicholsen performance was great as far as I am concerned. the Joker was a hood re-invented as a mad (homicidal) artist. Of course the film took liberties. It was a dark interpretation of the comcs. Its people like you that convinced the studios to go for joel schumakers soft gay porn approach where he was briefed to make it as comic like as possible. The one with Arnie in it was sooo bad it beggers belief. Bane was rubbish, Mr Freeze a joke and Uma Thurman was OK but thats because shes sexy. Even batgirl was ludicrous. surely you have read the 70s Poison Ivy stories , they were actually really creep(er)y, not so in 'Batman and Robin). Surely the Nicholsen Joker was taking the character and doing somthing interesting with it, unlike the craposity of Tommy Lee Jones' twoface (why couldnt they have stuck with the guy who plays lando who appears in good form in the original batman) Comics usually turn into rubbish films (captian america, or the punishere being prime examples) itsonly in recent years that people have gotten good at making them, spiderman, xmen etc.. The Batman you (A.I) dont like was a good overhyped event movie. 

P.S. Scissors on Btwing = cool


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2004)

I disagree, Jack was crap, he did not care for the character and did nothing other than play to type. The second movie was by far the best and gave the clearest example of what the franchise could of achieved (I aint surprised you like B the Dog, if memory serves you like T3!   ).


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2004)

bouncer_the_dog said:
			
		

> P.S. Scissors on Btwing = cool



Balls! Why the hell were they added? Did Batman suddenly become aware of a great need to cut things mid flight, plot contrivance at its worst and most embarrasing!


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## Idaho (Aug 7, 2004)

Richard White said:
			
		

> WHAT?! Batman and Robin was awful, possibly one of the worst film's I've ever seen...
> Batman and Robin the best of the series...that made me laugh....



Yeah it was shit - but they were all shit and wasn't that the one with Drew Barrymore in white lacy stockings?


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## Orang Utan (Aug 7, 2004)

All these comic book films are trash and evidence of a lack of courage in Hollywood to come up with new ideas.
The only comic book films I've enjoyed are Superman and Superman II


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 13, 2005)

Anyway... to bring this thread bang up to date...

This film is on Wednesday, I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned it, it looks awesome.

Check out the reviews from Rotten Tomatoes:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/batman_begins/?critic=1

On the unofficial tomatometer, 29 fresh, just 5 rotten (85%), its doing bloody well for a superhero film so far.

The trailers look quality, the cast is amazing, they've got a good director - what could possibly go wrong, other than nobody sees it because Batman and Robin was so bad?


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## LJo (Jun 13, 2005)

Saw it at a preview a few weeks ago. I thought it was fucking brilliant, loved it, very very dark for a summer blockbuster  - someone's definitely been reading Arkham Asylum. This from someone who left Batman and Robin swearing never, ever, ever to see another Batman film as long as she lived.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 13, 2005)

LJo said:
			
		

> Saw it at a preview a few weeks ago. I thought it was fucking brilliant, loved it, very very dark for a summer blockbuster  - someone's definitely been reading Arkham Asylum. This from someone who left Batman and Robin swearing never, ever, ever to see another Batman film as long as she lived.



 Great news... I've hardly heard any fans say it was bad.  Just one on IMDB.

The rest have ranged from good (8/10) to absolutely outstanding.

I can't wait to see it - but am panicking I might not be able to find a cinema showing it in English here, and I'll have to wait ages for a decent pirate DVD copy


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2005)

Atlast! I've been waiting bloody ages for this film (as evidenced by the age of the thread started by me under my old name!)!! Going to go see it this weekend!


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2005)

LJo said:
			
		

> Saw it at a preview a few weeks ago. I thought it was fucking brilliant, loved it, very very dark for a summer blockbuster  - someone's definitely been reading Arkham Asylum. This from someone who left Batman and Robin swearing never, ever, ever to see another Batman film as long as she lived.


 Fancy writing a review for the Urban Film Blog (http://urbanfilmreview.blogspot.com/)? PM me your email address and i'll send you the invite if you're interested.


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## Nine Bob Note (Jun 13, 2005)

*!*



> was a shite joker, all he did was ponce around being himself, he didnt bother to even try and get the character right. It was a performance comparable to that camp bollox they put out as Batman in the 60s tv show.



Uh-oh! Someone hasn't been using their Joker brand products! 

The third was the best.







Camp as tits, and great stuff


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2005)

Nope utter shit, glad the franchise has clawed back some self respect (he says going by the look of the new one).


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## jæd (Jun 13, 2005)

LJo said:
			
		

> Saw it at a preview a few weeks ago. I thought it was fucking brilliant, loved it, very very dark for a summer blockbuster  - someone's definitely been reading Arkham Asylum. This from someone who left Batman and Robin swearing never, ever, ever to see another Batman film as long as she lived.



Saw this yesterday thanks to a friend... Its very good, but not as good as the first one as (a) Jack Nicholson isn't in it and (b) the BatMobile looks like a tractor... Oh and Mr Wayne doesn't get his kit off that much.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 13, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Nope utter shit, glad the franchise has clawed back some self respect (he says going by the look of the new one).



Yeah forever wasn't great.  Batman and Robin was inextricably worse though


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2005)

The first film was crap, the second pretty fucking good, the other two fucking dire if you ask me. This one looks like it is restoring the franchise back to something worthwhile...


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## souljacker (Jun 13, 2005)

jæd said:
			
		

> (b) the BatMobile looks like a tractor....



I saw the new Batmobile on the news and it looked like a squashed hummer to me. I expect batmobiles to look all sleek and sexy and scary looking.


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## LJo (Jun 13, 2005)

jæd said:
			
		

> Saw this yesterday thanks to a friend... Its very good, but not as good as the first one as (a) Jack Nicholson isn't in it .



That was a plus point for me. I remember a mate telling me about seeing the first one in the US. The audience sat quietly until Joker went off on about his fifth crazy, twitching monologue. 

Then someone yelled: "Oh, just fuck off, Joker," and the place erupted in cheers.

I find a little of Tim Burton's circus-inspired dark-tinged whimsy craziness goes a very, very long way with me.

But hey, at least he wasn't shouting: "You vill not take me to ze cooler! Ice to see you!"

<cringes>


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 14, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> The first film was crap, the second pretty fucking good, the other two fucking dire if you ask me. This one looks like it is restoring the franchise back to something worthwhile...



As I said above, I used to love the first film, but I watched it recently and didn't like it anywhere near as much.  I still like the second one for its gothic snowyness.

But I think this one will be better.

Remember though that is technically not 'the same' franchise... It is meant to be a completely separate/new franchise - it has someone totally different kill Batman's parents, for instance.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 14, 2005)

souljacker said:
			
		

> I saw the new Batmobile on the news and it looked like a squashed hummer to me. I expect batmobiles to look all sleek and sexy and scary looking.



Apparently it makes sense when you see it in action though.


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## LostNotFound (Jun 14, 2005)

jæd said:
			
		

> (b) the BatMobile looks like a tractor...



agreed.. wtf is this!


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 14, 2005)

It looks cool in the context of the film though.  From what I've seen of it, a dildo-style Burton Batmobile wouldn't look right.

This is gritty, realist, noirish Batman.


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## LJo (Jun 14, 2005)

It's also real. Nolan wanted to use as little CGI as possible to counteract the shininess of Revenge of the Sith.

Wait till you see it in action, it fucking rocks.


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## jæd (Jun 14, 2005)

LJo said:
			
		

> Wait till you see it in action, it fucking rocks.



Nope -- it looks a childrens toy. The sequence with the Batmobile looks very fake/cheesy. But yes, the Batmobile does look real (becuase it is) but the sfx version looks like a toy tractor.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 14, 2005)

LJo said:
			
		

> It's also real. Nolan wanted to use as little CGI as possible to counteract the shininess of Revenge of the Sith.
> 
> Wait till you see it in action, it fucking rocks.



That's one of the main reasons I'm so looking forward to this.  ROTS was a huge improvement on the other two star wars prequels, but in the cold light of day I still dislike the overuse of CGI.

The fact that this Batman film looks so earthy and real is much better.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2005)

LostNotFound said:
			
		

> agreed.. wtf is this!


 That looks fucking mental! Much better than that floppy finned one from the last couple!


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 14, 2005)

Yeah the Schumacher one was sooooooooooooooo gay.   

This new one looks more like the sort of thing you'd actually expect Batman to have.


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## LostNotFound (Jun 14, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Yeah the Schumacher one was sooooooooooooooo gay.
> 
> This new one looks more like the sort of thing you'd actually expect Batman to have.



it's a pile of shit.. looks like something out of starship troopers!

if they'd wanted a proper noirish style, i reckon the old batcar design could have been worked on, give it a bit of a retro car look or something.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 14, 2005)

LostNotFound said:
			
		

> it's a pile of shit.. looks like something out starship troopers!
> 
> if they'd wanted a proper noirish style, i reckon the old batcar design could have been worked on, give it a bit of a retro car look or something.



You are Joel Schumacher and I claim my five pounds


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## Largo (Jun 14, 2005)

I saw Batman Begins last week, and i though it was good.  I'm not a Batman comic fan but from what my friends who are have told me it is pretty true to the comic.  There are slight differences.  

It's not as dark as Tim Butron's Batman but it has a good balance of making Gotham feeling dark but not overly dark.

Katie Holmes was not as bad as I thought she'd be, Christian Bale pulls off Batman & Bruce Wayne nicely.  Michael Caine is brilliant as Alfred.

Overall a good summer flick.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2005)

Caine as Alfred was my mine grip/reservation about this; I think they got it bang on with the dude that was in the first two film.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 14, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Caine as Alfred was my mine grip/reservation about this; I think they got it bang on with the dude that was in the first two film.



True, but apparently Caine is very good in this.  I too, thought he was too cockney to begin with, but I think it seems like he fits well into the universe they've created.


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## LostNotFound (Jun 14, 2005)

I'll have to watch it before I spew any more poorly formed opinions on the subject


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 14, 2005)

Is Tom Wilkinson a dead ringer for Steve Norris or what?

Steve Norris:






Tom Wilkinson:


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## LostNotFound (Jun 16, 2005)

I'm mostly looking forward to the ninja training section of the film


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## MightyAphrodite (Jun 16, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Is Tom Wilkinson a dead ringer for Steve Norris or what?




I think Tom Wilkinson is a REALLY good actor.

That film he was in with Sissy Spacek called 'In The Bedroom' was excellent. One of my favorite films in fact-and hes in my all time favorite, Eternal Sunshine, so he's alright in my book.  (except hes from leeds! )


I'm not keen on on the whole Batman thing really though ...but i'm gonna download it and have a look anyway.


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## Cadmus (Jun 16, 2005)

MightyAphrodite said:
			
		

> ...but i'm gonna download it and have a look anyway.


you forgot to mention you're gonna naturally do it _after_ it's been released on the legal web sites, of course.
so im adding it for ya.


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## MightyAphrodite (Jun 16, 2005)

Cadmus said:
			
		

> you forgot to mention you're gonna naturally do it _after_ it's been released on the legal web sites, of course.
> so im adding it for ya.




no, im doin it now as it goes! 

but that smiley is great!


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 16, 2005)

Good review here  damn shame he's not an urbanites; it'd make a good entry for the film blog!


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 16, 2005)

Well I saw it today. it was awsome. Definatley the best Batman film. It rocks! A thouroughly enjoyable watch even for no-bat-fans I would think. The batmobile kicks ass!


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 17, 2005)

bouncer_the_dog said:
			
		

> Well I saw it today. it was awsome. Definatley the best Batman film. It rocks! A thouroughly enjoyable watch even for no-bat-fans I would think. The batmobile kicks ass!



Cool


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## Random One (Jun 17, 2005)

im going to see this tonight, YAY!!!!

and the batmobile does look fucking cool..saw it on Top Gear (i think) the other day and i wanted it!!!


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 17, 2005)

Random One said:
			
		

> im going to see this tonight, YAY!!!!
> 
> and the batmobile does look fucking cool..saw it on Top Gear (i think) the other day and i wanted it!!!



Enjoy...
I'm still waiting for it, can never get these stupid torrents things to work!


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## Ungrateful (Jun 17, 2005)

I saw it last night and thought it was excellent. Taut action, good acting even from Michael Caine and, unbelievably Gary Oldman -- who avoids histrionics -- and plays a decent man in a compromised world with admirable restraint ('Oldman' and 'restraint' in the same sentence, who'd've thought). Indeed the film-maker seems to have used some of the top actors from the British Isles in the key roles: Bale, Caine, Oldman, Nesson, Cillian Murphy, Tom Wilkinson. Is this coincidence?

The film avoids easy sentimentalisation, has some great set pieces, and there seemed to be a pretty interesting critique of neo-conservatism and the Project of the American Century buried in there. But as I don't want to turn into a Film Studies lecturer at the moment, I'll stop here.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2005)

Review it for the film blog!!!


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 17, 2005)

AH! Cillian murphy .. I was trying to workout where I had seen him before (28 days later) he was excellently evil in Batman Begins. Thinking about it a bit later its probably one of the best comic films so far (although I still havnt seen sin city). I quite like the way that the Wayne monorail is blatently the DLR.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 18, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Review it for the film blog!!!



Let me! let me!

Although I've still not got hold of it


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 18, 2005)

bouncer_the_dog said:
			
		

> AH! Cillian murphy .. I was trying to workout where I had seen him before (28 days later) he was excellently evil in Batman Begins. Thinking about it a bit later its probably one of the best comic films so far (although I still havnt seen sin city). I quite like the way that the Wayne monorail is blatently the DLR.



So how would you say it compared to that 'sacred cow' of superhero films, the first Superman?

Personally I like the two Superman films but think the two recent Spiderman films were quite overrated.

I like the X Men films much more than Spiderman.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 18, 2005)

Well I think that Superman 1 has always been good, and is the benchmark. But thats why I liked the Burton Batman because it was a dark alternative (much like the actual comics). AFAIK there was a Batman vs. Superman being suggested, but I doubt it will happen now. I like the X-Men but I think it can be a bit serious and star-trek like (becuase its got picard in it). Spiderman 2 is definatley better than Spiderman 1. So after having the bar raised in terms of special effects and better plots and re-inventions I do think Batman Begins beats them all. The Punisher*  was rubbish, daredevil and Elektra also rubbish, dont rate 'The Hulk'  and a can't say that I think Fantastic 4 is going to be any good either. Seeing as there was an Aliens vs. Predator comic I think I'd say that was one of my  favourite comic book film. But Batman Begins does have good script and a ninjas and stuff gets smashed. Don't know what the re-watchabilty is like on it.

*But I still liked it.

What really really need is a Decent Rogue Troper or Strontium Dog film to put the American comics in their place.


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## G. Fieendish (Jun 18, 2005)

Agreed...


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## Tea (Jun 18, 2005)

saw it last night. what i felt different compared to the other superheros,eg spiderman, xmen, daredevil; batmen here seems more "human". It shows how his powers are garnered through sheer will, muscles, and hardwork. And saving people isn't just about the powers you have, its about your will as well. I felt because of this it doesn't quite sit properly with the whole feel of the film as in who he is, what he does (is he superbeing, is he this, what is he)...... especially the last scene where they show him "flying". So now he's a super being that can fly......... mmmmmm. 

im with the cross eyed one, not quite sure what that bat mobile or tractor is.


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## Cid (Jun 18, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Atlast! I've been waiting bloody ages for this film (as evidenced by the age of the thread started by me under my old name!)!! Going to go see it this weekend!



It's 'evinced' not 'evidenced' (which is a crap Americanisation) - sorry, tis one of those things that gets on my nerves... 

I read quite a good review in (I think) Building Design on this about how the architecture has changed to suit new visions of dystopia - Chicago rather than New York presents itself as the model for Gotham, less of the Gothic, more of the faceless skyscraper. Haven't actually seen it yet though...


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## CyberRose (Jun 20, 2005)

Haven't seen Batman Begins but can somebody who has please confirm that there is a scene in it where Batman steels some fruit and gives it to a little kid (possibly in Africa or shot in Africa) and the little kid is wearing none other than a Sheffield United shirt!!??


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

I just bought an early pirate of it but it has a shite picture and even worse isn't even in English   

Straight back to the shop for that one!


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## MightyAphrodite (Jun 20, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> I just bought an early pirate of it but it has a shite picture and even worse isn't even in English
> 
> Straight back to the shop for that one!



i found a downloadable version, thats not bittorrent 


but its in russian with subtitles, the quality is good though!!  

if ye want it say and i'll PM you the download links.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

MightyAphrodite said:
			
		

> i found a downloadable version, thats not bittorrent
> 
> 
> but its in russian with subtitles, the quality is good though!!
> ...



Thanks, but I'll wait for a decent DVD copy over here...

Probably be another month or so.  The pirate market here seems to be going through a really shoddy phase. Sometimes great copies of new films appear immediately, at other times all you can get hold of are cinema recorded jobbies for a few weeks.

Star Wars 3 had a near-perfect copy almost straight away, which was odd.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2005)

Saw it yesterday; WOW! A must see film, finally they've got Batman right, the way he moves, the anger and the pathos, everything!

KE


----------



## Random One (Jun 20, 2005)

i saw it last night and thought it was fucking coooooool. that was all that kept goign through my head every 10 minutes or so "man this is so cool and look at that how fucking cool"

the chaarcter was developed really well i thought, the colour scheme of the film was fantastiv and the acting was great (even Katie Holmes)


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Saw it yesterday; WOW! A must see film, finally they've got Batman right, the way he moves, the anger and the pathos, everything!
> 
> KE



I'm glad you liked it - you were so scathing about the previous films (except BReturns)!

Will this spur you into writing your first review for the Urban page?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> I'm glad you liked it - you were so scathing about the previous films (except BReturns)!
> 
> Will this spur you into writing your first review for the Urban page?



Scathing with good reason matey! Me and RO were talking about writing a review for it on the way back from the cinema but joked that a review that basically said it as amazing that everyone should see it wouldn’t be much of a review at all!


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

Random One said:
			
		

> i saw it last night and thought it was fucking coooooool. that was all that kept goign through my head every 10 minutes or so "man this is so cool and look at that how fucking cool"
> 
> the chaarcter was developed really well i thought, the colour scheme of the film was fantastiv and the acting was great (even Katie Holmes)





I soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo want to see this   

Damn the people responsible for organising Chinese cinema schedules.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Scathing with good reason matey! Me and RO were talking about writing a review for it on the way back from the cinema but joked that a review that basically said it as amazing that everyone should see it wouldn’t be much of a review at all!



That's true.  Such things can tend to sound too fan-boyish...

Surely there were some negatives though?  I can only think of a few films that are utterly perfect...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2005)

Yeah there were a few but not enough to gripe about, also the only big negative was that the franchise wasn’t treated with this level of care and respect from the beginning. That said I look upon this as being the real Batman film and the others (even including my former fave Batman Returns) as something to not even bother with. Even the name Batman Begins isn’t as duff sounding as I first thought (once you see where it sits in the film you will get what I mean).


----------



## bmd (Jun 20, 2005)

Great film, at last Batman gets the treatment it deserves. Acting was good, script was good, cinematography was good. Loved it.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Yeah there were a few but not enough to gripe about, also the only big negative was that the franchise wasn’t treated with this level of care and respect from the beginning. That said I look upon this as being the real Batman film and the others (even including my former fave Batman Returns) as something to not even bother with. Even the name Batman Begins isn’t as duff sounding as I first thought (once you see where it sits in the film you will get what I mean).



And it looks as if it won't be as big a hit as it could have been (judging from early box office results), because the public are maybe a bit tired of Batman films, don't appreciate that it's a complete restart than a prequel, and because Batman and Robin was so bloody bad.  Which is a crying shame.

Still, it will probably be one of these films which ends up a big hit because of word of mouth...

So... who do you think should play the Joker in the sequel?  I've seen crispin glover mentioned a lot...


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

Bob Marleys Dad said:
			
		

> Great film, at last Batman gets the treatment it deserves. Acting was good, script was good, cinematography was good. Loved it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> And it looks as if it won't be as big a hit as it could have been (judging from early box office results), because the public are maybe a bit tired of Batman films, don't appreciate that it's a complete restart than a prequel, and because Batman and Robin was so bloody bad.  Which is a crying shame.
> 
> Still, it will probably be one of these films which ends up a big hit because of word of mouth...
> 
> So... who do you think should play the Joker in the sequel?  I've seen crispin glover mentioned a lot...


 I would prefer that they get a new actor, somebody that can actually act but doesn't detract from the BM himself. For me thats what made this film, it was the fact that it spun on its axis around Bruce Wayne/Batman not the guest starring bad guy or the stupid Batmobile/flying thing with stupid scissors!


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> I would prefer that they get a new actor, somebody that can actually act but doesn't detract from the BM himself. For me thats what made this film, it was the fact that it spun on its axis around Bruce Wayne/Batman not the guest starring bad guy or the stupid Batmobile/flying thing with stupid scissors!



And of course there's a danger that they could go back in that direction if its not as big a hit as they had hoped...


----------



## Random One (Jun 20, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> And of course there's a danger that they could go back in that direction if its not as big a hit as they had hoped...


 i don't know-it felt like a film being made by a real fan of the whole thing so even if it's not as big a hit he may still make the others in the same way just for the "real fans" as it were


----------



## The Groke (Jun 20, 2005)

*Hmmm didn't do it for me I am afraid!*

Nor my wife and flatmate....!

Looks like I am going to be the first to post a negative review here   

....wait - actually _negative_ is too strong a word: *Indifferent* just about sums it up.

As the credits rolled, my wife, mate and I all turned to each other and made the international sign-language for "meh".

The odd thing is, when I try to dissect the thing and work out why I didn't "get it" I am left feeling that the whole ended up _less_ than the sum of its parts.

Good cast? _check_.
Well acted? Pretty much a _check_. 
Good script? see above
storyline? well I guess it is as "_check_" as you can get in a "superhero" movie.....
Action scenes? a slightly blurred and rushed "_check_"

So, the formula is:

_check_ + _check_ + _check_ + _check_ x [Batman Begins] = ?


Well it still equals "meh" I am afraid.

I wish I could explain why this movie failed to press any of my buttons.....

Maybe it was because I am not sure that a movie of this genre needs so much demystifying. Take away the myth, the legend and the magic from a superhero franchise and ground it too much in "reality" then I think it loses half of its point before it even begins.

I think I need to give it a second chance, but that will have to wait for the DVD I think!

I really wanted to like this film too


----------



## Termite Man (Jun 20, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> For me thats what made this film, it was the fact that it spun on its axis around Bruce Wayne/Batman not the guest starring bad guy or the stupid Batmobile/flying thing with stupid scissors!



I actually disagree with this ! For me the great thing about batman is the villians ! If you can get them right then you don't need to focus so much on batman/bruce wayne . One of my favourite batman stories is from the batman - Black and White . Where the story focuses on Two Face being made back into harveyt dent and being "cured" of his psychological problems ! Batman only appears in the last scene which IMO makes it a much better story than if he had been more involved !
The whole idea of Batman inspiring fear in the criminal world could be explored mush better if he has less of a role in the films !


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 20, 2005)

Savage Henry said:
			
		

> I actually disagree with this ! For me the great thing about batman is the villians ! If you can get them right then you don't need to focus so much on batman/bruce wayne . One of my favourite batman stories is from the batman - Black and White . Where the story focuses on Two Face being made back into harveyt dent and being "cured" of his psychological problems ! Batman only appears in the last scene which IMO makes it a much better story than if he had been more involved !
> The whole idea of Batman inspiring fear in the criminal world could be explored mush better if he has less of a role in the films !



So did you like the new film or not?


----------



## the B (Jun 20, 2005)

One of the things about Batman on the whole is that he has a great catalogue of villians to come up against... much better than most other comic series...


----------



## The Groke (Jun 20, 2005)

hmm - so it seems I stand alone as the only one completely underwhelmed by the film so far!


----------



## Termite Man (Jun 20, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> So did you like the new film or not?



I did like it ! But not as much as I had hoped


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 20, 2005)

The Groke said:
			
		

> hmm - so it seems I stand alone as the only one completely underwhelmed by the film so far!



I was really looking forward to this but sadly my reaction was pretty much meh. Batamn was to nice and I didnt really get any feeling of fear in gotham. These criminals are meant to be inspiring fear but it doesnt seem to me like they are. The scarcrow was under used and not really explored and the way the league of shadows are broguth in as the enemy (which I guess was meant to be a twist as I never eead it in any o the previews) was predictable from the start. It wasnt a bad film just a wasted oppurtunity.


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Jun 25, 2005)

Something to drive RenegadeDog completely mental!


*Warner Bros. is targeting a 2008 release date for a sequel to Batman Begins.*










heheh..


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 25, 2005)

I've seen that pic before... is that Vincent cassell?


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Jun 25, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> I've seen that pic before... is that Vincent cassell?




Not sure who it is really. But i certainly hope that's the direction they go in. 

I heard Sean Penn was already being wooed to play the next joker. (which would be a good choice IMO!)

But whadda i know?!


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 25, 2005)

MightyAphrodite said:
			
		

> Not sure who it is really. But i certainly hope that's the direction they go in.
> 
> I heard Sean Penn was already being wooed to play the next joker. (which would be a good choice IMO!)
> 
> But whadda i know?!



Sean Penn would be decent.  But I like Tim roth as a possible option too.  He's definitely got the face!

Whatever they do it should be totally different to Jack nicholson's one, there's no point just trying to copy that...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2005)

That pic looks mental much better than the shitty Jack Prickleson version of the Joker! Excellent stuff, hopefully they'll continue with the excellent thing they got going with BMB but 08? That's an age away, why not end of 06 or early 07 dammit!!?


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 25, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> That pic looks mental much better than the shitty Jack Prickleson version of the Joker! Excellent stuff, hopefully they'll continue with the excellent thing they got going with BMB but 08? That's an age away, why not end of 06 or early 07 dammit!!?



True, but 3 years is quite a standard gap in a trilogy.  The only exception I can think of off-hand is LOTR (which was filmed all at once).

That picture isn't an official warner brothers thing btw, but something a batman fan made.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 25, 2005)

what are the odds that you see the sequel before the original?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> True, but 3 years is quite a standard gap in a trilogy.  The only exception I can think of off-hand is LOTR (which was filmed all at once).
> 
> That picture isn't an official warner brothers thing btw, but something a batman fan made.


 Oh, yeah well they should do it fast dammit!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2005)

If its fan art were did who is the guy in the pic?


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 25, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> what are the odds that you see the sequel before the original?



 True... although we've just found out it will be opening in Chinese cinemas as of the 29th june, i'm just hoping they've got a showing in english.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 25, 2005)

I have heard Joker is between Mark Hamill (who has voiced the joker in the cartoons since the early nineties) and Crispin Glover.

Skywalker v Batman

 fanboy wank fantasy


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 25, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> I have heard Joker is between Mark Hamill (who has voiced the joker in the cartoons since the early nineties) and Crispin Glover.
> 
> Skywalker v Batman
> 
> fanboy wank fantasy





I reckon it will be Glover though.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 25, 2005)

Yeah, because he isn't Luke Skywalker innit


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 25, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> Yeah, because he isn't Luke Skywalker innit



 But he was George McFly...


----------



## Balbi (Jun 25, 2005)

And in Friday the 13th part 4  He got killed though.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 25, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> And in Friday the 13th part 4  He got killed though.



I think that one slipped me by... 

He was also in a rather dodgy film about rats called Willard...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 25, 2005)

I watched it last night and must say it's just one of the best films I've ever seen!!!     

Bale is perfect as Batman...the jawline, the voice, the menace. The cast was superb. The story was great and the look was fantastic.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2005)

mwgdrwg said:
			
		

> I watched it last night and must say it's just one of the best films I've ever seen!!!
> 
> Bale is perfect as Batman...the jawline, the voice, the menace. The cast was superb. The story was great and the look was fantastic.


 Yep! Loved it I did too!


----------



## Cloo (Jun 26, 2005)

Saw it last night - yes, some great performances in there from Bale, Caine, Oldman and Neeson. And who spotted St Pancras staircase in the film?


----------



## Allan (Jun 26, 2005)

A lot of it was filmed in London. Where BW comes out dripping wet with two girls was filmed in Moorgate, the theatre where young BW gets the shits over an opera is in Charing Cross Road, etc.


----------



## Random One (Jun 26, 2005)

Cloo said:
			
		

> Saw it last night - yes, some great performances in there from Bale, Caine, Oldman and Neeson. And who spotted St Pancras staircase in the film?




hehe yeah Kid E pointed out too me duringnthe film i was too busy thinking "fuck this is so fucking cool"


----------



## CyberRose (Jun 26, 2005)

Somebody tell me why they put a kid in a Sheff Utd shirt in the film!!!


----------



## Balbi (Jun 26, 2005)

Just got back from the cinema (went with my mum, we do it every month )

Oh. My. Fucking. God.

Tim Burton, you take a good look at your two films and cry, because you will never, ever make ANYTHING as good as that.

Joel Schumacher, I am coming for you. Don't run, you'll just die tired.

Gary Oldman is fantastic as Gordon, he NAILS that role to the wall, right down to the moustache and the glasses. Having worried about Caine overshadowing Bale, to see them playing off each other so well and Bale breaking the barrier for 'fuck me he's good' playing of the role. The difference between Wayne and the Bat is notable, and he is fucking scary in the role, as someone said the jawline, the voice the damn presence is immense. It isn't all about the bad guys, it's about the Bat.

 A sequel cannot come fast enough for me, and they need to keep that cast and add to it with great actors, not stars, actors. You put stars in the film, it will bomb. Ask Schumacher.

Batman has begun.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 26, 2005)

Heh heh heh! It's so cool seeing that response to the film!


----------



## Balbi (Jun 26, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> Tim Burtons Batman was quality. The second one was ace too. After that, it fucked up.



I stand corrected, it was shit before Batman Begins. Now it is great.



Im going to see it again this week, maybe a few times before the week is out.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 26, 2005)

Here's my thoughts on why it's a good film, it's not a review otherwise I would blog it on the U75 film blog.

I have only just got back from seeing BB. I am planning on two or three more trips to see it later this week. Batman Begins almost straight out ignores everything that Burton and Schumacher did to destroy the franchise, and before anyone steps in, I will tell you why I think that.

Burton was, and is not a comic book fan. He has freely admitted that he does not read comic books, and that showed in his films. No doubt he did research into it, but he didn't do the hardcore factfinding that Nolan had to do. The best example of this is Lt. Gordon. Commissioner Gordon in the 1989 film played little to no role, merely acting as backdrop for Keatons excellent performance and Nicholsons stealing of the film. Gordon was fat, useless and overall just Burtons way of saying 'look, there is gordon'. Burton wanted to make a 'Tim Burton Film', the type you can tell from a mile off. Sure he got Gotham right but it all went airy fairy near the end, there wasn't enough grit in the film. The bat is all about the grit and the dark, which is where Nolan got it right. Burton was good, but his reputation alone could not cover the holes in this film. The coincidence that Napier killed the Waynes was just too damn Hollywood for my liking, Batman would and should of just gone after Napier. You need a burning desire to fight injustice, as in BB.

I am not even going to go into Schumacher, because I don't want to develop an anger management problem, and recollection brings on my headache.

To look at it, the first two films were good in one way. The Bat. Keaton was outstanding, and in comparison Kilmer and that jumped up medic were absolutely the wrong decision to make. Keaton had that role nailed to the wall, and everyone knew it. But the reason Keaton excelled is because he was not a 'star', he was a damn fine actor, which leads me into Batman Begins.

Like I said, BB clearly eliminates the original two and those two abortions that should never have got off the ground. It takes you in and straight off gets into the mythology, which is one of the most important things about the Bat. You have to know where it came from, and why. This is done by paying attention to the comics and working with some of the finest actors you can find. Bale, Neeson, Caine, Oldman, Freeman. These people are not 'stars'. They aren't your Brad Pitts and Angelina Jolies. They are quality actors. Hell, include Alan Rickman in the sequel and you'll be showcasing the best Britain has to offer! You can try and fill a film with big names, and when you do you get Batman & Robin. To make a film as good as BB, you need actors who are at the top of their game and who can make the role their own.

Which brings me on to roles. Murphy as Scarecrow was fantastic, didn't overdo the role at all. Oldman as Lt. Gordon, right down to the damn moustache I believed that was Gordon. Bale as Batman and Bruce Wayne, two completely different characters. Caine as Alfred (and who thought you could replace Micheal Gough?) The world of Batman has been created anew, and that is why there needs to be a new Joker and new editions of the old villains. Could you see Joker in the Batman Begins universe leading a parade with balloons? Of course not. And while Nicholson was fantastic as Joker, he just took over the film. You don't want that in the BB world. Joker has to be even more twisted, insane and threatening to match up with the vision Nolan created.

Rumours are Crispin Glover, a fine actor (even if he's George McFly). I say go for it. These films owe NOTHING to Burton, nothing at all. Bring on a new Joker, but he has to be an actor, not a hollywood name. Anyone suggesting Brad Pitt must be insane, he'd want top billing and maximum screen time. The studio would whore the fact that Pitt is in the film and the emphasis has been lost.

Sequel pencilled in for 2008. Let the games begin.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 29, 2005)

Just found out it is definitely on in English at the new Warner Brothers cinema in Hankou as of this week!  Will probably go to see it with a friend on Saturday, can't wait.


----------



## Random One (Jun 29, 2005)

YAY for RD


and Lost Prophet-why cant that be a review dammit!!!


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 29, 2005)

Random One said:
			
		

> YAY for RD
> 
> 
> and Lost Prophet-why cant that be a review dammit!!!



 I've not been to the cinema at all since I got to China.  Bought tons of DVDs but nothing on the  big screen.  This new place showing things in English is quite new, just a few months old.

And yeah, I thought LP's review was pretty good!


----------



## Random One (Jun 29, 2005)

that must be kinda annoying! dvds are cool bt sumthings are meant for the big screen init


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jun 29, 2005)

Random One said:
			
		

> that must be kinda annoying! dvds are cool bt sumthings are meant for the big screen init



True, but the flipside is the cost of the DVDs... I don't earn a huge amount in real terms here, but I have amassed about 250 since I came...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 30, 2005)

Saw it last night and what can i say , fuckin superb , was an avid fan of the comics in my yoof until the films pissed me off ( fuck you Schumacher     ) ( what is it with the Schumachers in this world??? ) Gary Oldman is Gordon , the rest of the cast was wicked ( even Katie Holmes , but that maybe cos of her nips at the end of the film )...... the dark knight has returned / begun. Came out of the cinema speechless and im a noisy bastard, so anything that can shut me up must be wicked!!!! ask me mates!!


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 2, 2005)

Saw it today.  Brilliant.  Only marred by the fact that the cinema cut about 10 minutes out for some reason.   don't know why.  A couple of bits just jumped in the middle of a conversation.


----------



## Moggy (Jul 2, 2005)

My claim to fame is that i was born and raised in the same hospital/town Christian Bale was  

Oh yeah and the film is fucking top notch by the way


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 2, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Saw it today.  Brilliant.  Only marred by the fact that the cinema cut about 10 minutes out for some reason.   don't know why.  A couple of bits just jumped in the middle of a conversation.



One bit that was cut was the fight in the prison at the beginning.  Jumped straight from the fight starting to all the guys lying on the ground.  I reckon it was because they were Chinese guys and the cinema authorities thought it would be offensive to have a westerner kicking chinese guys' butts.

And apparently there was another bit where they mention batman getting the bat ears from china - cut too.

Fucking censorship


----------



## akirajoel (Jul 4, 2005)

saw it tonight. my two cents:

thought the first hour wa really fucking cool - cool narrative structure, nice building of character, Bale as the best Bruce Wayne/Batman ever...

and then it all got a bit boring, formulaic, seen-it-before car chases, big fight-scenes, *yawn!*

and the editing (in the second half) was a bit off too...

oh well - bring on 'batman continues' (or whatever its called...)


----------



## Sunspots (Jul 4, 2005)

Saw it the other night.  Went in with no prior knowledge or expectations.  

Thought it was excellent.


----------



## akirajoel (Jul 4, 2005)

No offense. But you people are all really easily pleased...


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 4, 2005)

akirajoel said:
			
		

> No offense. But you people are all really easily pleased...



Bollocks - I thought it was one of the best put-together action films out of Hollywood in absolutely years.


----------



## akirajoel (Jul 4, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Bollocks - I thought it was one of the best put-together action films out of Hollywood in absolutely years.



The first half - yeah.

The second half - no.

Action films have good action - BB didnt have the punch to back up the build-up...


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 4, 2005)

akirajoel said:
			
		

> The first half - yeah.
> 
> The second half - no.
> 
> Action films have good action - BB didnt have the punch to back up the build-up...



I thought it did...


----------



## akirajoel (Jul 4, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> I thought it did...



One lousy car-chase?
And one very boring fight on a train?

Have you not seen these things played out in a thousand other movies?

What was needed was not action - but a more suitable emotional pay-off...

The beginning was like the start of Batman: THE MYTH, while the end was copped straight from anyone of the countless Batman cartoons...

In my opinion.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 4, 2005)

I'll grant you that the final 20-30 were probably the most pedestrian of the film, but what had gone before was good enough to not bother me.

Some of the bits in the middle were great, like the Dock scene, and where he interrogates Flass.  "I swear to god" "Swear to ME!"


----------



## akirajoel (Jul 4, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Some of the bits in the middle were great, like the Dock scene, and where he interrogates Flass.  "I swear to god" "Swear to ME!"



Yeah.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 4, 2005)

akirajoel said:
			
		

> Yeah.



You know how when you see a film you always come out of it thinking it looked so different to how you would have done it?

Some of those bits were EXACTLY how I would have done a Batman film.


----------



## inflatable jesus (Jul 6, 2005)

I liked it but I have a couple of criticisms:

1) Katie Holmes was a bit miscast. Wasn't really convincing when she was trying to do any of the tough DA stuff. Casting Cillian Murphy in that role was inspired so I have no problems with the casting in general, but Holmes was just flat.

2) It all seemed a bit rushed to me, particularly the parts before he gets back to Gotham. It seemed like the makers felt it necessary to explain everything that was happening at the expense of spending time developing the character, as a result, you never really got a decent sense of what Bruce Wayne was going through and instead you get a big list of things he was doing.

3) I found the last action scenes a bit dull. That's personal preference though. I would have prefered more fighting and less car-chasesque stuff.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

thing is, I usually dislike car chases, but I thought the one in this was superb, possibly the best since French Connection.


----------



## Moggy (Jul 7, 2005)

I thought the one-liners that were said during the car chase were unnecesary (how the FUCK do you spell that word?!   ) and made me drop my head in my hands, i was expecting there to be some kind of cheesy one liners creeping in through the film and i was overjoyed that there hadn't been until then  Unfortunately there are more that followed. Still, didn't detract from the film too much. Although i do think the car chase was the weakest point of the film, and after that the film did tend to lose its 'gripping' feel.

EDIT: This is one of those very, very rare films which has you cursing that the sequel isn't coming sooner - although hopefully in this case time will indeed equal quality once again i expect. Actually looking at imdb, is there any solid release saying there's going to be a sequel?? I know i read somewhere (probably on this thread) that a sequel has been aimed for 2008?? Anyone?


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

I agree about the odd cheesy lines, they did distract from the overall quality, but not enough to bother me that much.

I think the sequel is all but confirmed, for 2008


----------



## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

absolute fucking toilet.


----------



## Moggy (Jul 7, 2005)

Eeeerrr any expansion on that dub?


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> absolute fucking toilet.



Just what I expected from you, to be honest.


----------



## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

ok..

it looked great, but it couldn't decide whether to do portentous, noir Batman or wisecracking camp Batman so it floundered in the middle. Christian Baile just hasn't got it, Michael Caine sounding like he was Dick Van Dyke, the exposition and plot holes were fucking ridiculous, it was too long, bits of the script were sphincter-clenchingly embarassing, that cunt Tim Booth was the lead psycho eek: -  a scary vegan!), it was neither amusing enough nor dark enough to succeed in any way, the cliches - which can be a great bit of any genre or adaptation movie - just didn't work, it went on and on and on, 

just toilet.

ok?


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## Sunspots (Jul 7, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> that cunt Tim Booth was the lead psycho



Blimey! 

_<...checks IMDB...>_

Yep, him-out-of-James apparently played _Victor Zsaz_.   

I completely failed to spot him!


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## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

i had to work with the whining self-important little twat for over a year so my Hate Radar is well tuned to his presence


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## BadlyDrawnGirl (Jul 7, 2005)

Come on, Tim Booth's not all bad - James had some moments ('Hymn From A Village'; 'Wah Wah' with Eno; 'She's A Star') and then there was the work he did with Angelo Badalamenti.

However, I agree that he ought to give the comedy villains thing a lethal dose. Jesus. 'Hearts Of Fire II' anyone...?  

Thought not.


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## strummerville (Jul 7, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> ok..
> 
> it looked great, but it couldn't decide whether to do portentous, noir Batman or wisecracking camp Batman so it floundered in the middle. Christian Baile just hasn't got it, Michael Caine sounding like he was Dick Van Dyke, the exposition and plot holes were fucking ridiculous, it was too long, bits of the script were sphincter-clenchingly embarassing, that cunt Tim Booth was the lead psycho eek: -  a scary vegan!), it was neither amusing enough nor dark enough to succeed in any way, the cliches - which can be a great bit of any genre or adaptation movie - just didn't work, it went on and on and on,
> 
> ...



This from the man who thought that over hyped, prentious, irritating overated load of shite that was 'Lost in Translation' was brilliant. Stick to the music crits.


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## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

strummerville said:
			
		

> This from the man who thought that over hyped, prentious, irritating overated load of shite that was 'Lost in Translation' was brilliant. Stick to the music crits.




stick it up your arse


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## Sunspots (Jul 7, 2005)

Well, I liked 'Lost In Translation' _and_ 'Batman Begins'... 

_<looks both ways before crossing the road>_


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## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

strummerville's just upset because he HEARTS christian


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## strummerville (Jul 7, 2005)

I'm with you on Tim Booth though. My mate was in some weird religous sect called     'Lifewave' (I think) in the early 80's with him down in portsmouth. He got out eventually, but said Booth was creepy even then.


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## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

the rest of the band were decent lads, but Booth was just a Grade A cock. made our lives hell in the office, to be honest.. we dreaded him showing up and pulling his hippy/diva stunts..


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> ok..
> 
> it looked great, but it couldn't decide whether to do portentous, noir Batman or wisecracking camp Batman so it floundered in the middle. Christian Baile just hasn't got it, Michael Caine sounding like he was Dick Van Dyke, the exposition and plot holes were fucking ridiculous, it was too long, bits of the script were sphincter-clenchingly embarassing, that cunt Tim Booth was the lead psycho eek: -  a scary vegan!), it was neither amusing enough nor dark enough to succeed in any way, the cliches - which can be a great bit of any genre or adaptation movie - just didn't work, it went on and on and on,
> 
> ...



Fair play, I'm pleased you actualy provided your acual justification, but I thought it was one of the best films ever.


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## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Fair play, I'm pleased you actualy provided your acual justification, but I thought it was one of the best films ever.




really? we both nearly walked out.. it did get a bit better, but it was just so lame.. the recurring stethoscope motif was just so weak, all those apparently cinematic touches just didn't come off. there's no room for longeurs in a Batman movie


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

strummerville said:
			
		

> This from the man who thought that over hyped, prentious, irritating overated load of shite that was 'Lost in Translation' was brilliant. Stick to the music crits.



Damn true.
Lost in Translation= Something I could do filming my friends in Wuhan airport

Batman Begins= A modern masterpiece, a transcendal work which to me is the best piece of art to come out of mainstream hollywood possibly ever.

Dub - great music taste

Crap film taste

That's all I close with


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> really? we both nearly walked out.. it did get a bit better, but it was just so lame.. the recurring stethoscope motif was just so weak, all those apparently cinematic touches just didn't come off. there's no room for longeurs in a Batman movie



I thought it was totally awesome.

But I think we have (other than Sideways, which i really liked too) quite different taste in films... I count that new batman upwith the LOTR films, and I know you hate them too...


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## tastebud (Jul 7, 2005)

you tell him!


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## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Batman Begins= A modern masterpiece, a transcendal work which to me is the best piece of art to come out of mainstream hollywood possibly ever.




i'm absolutely gobsmacked you think so highly of it.. not that i'm saying you're wrong - it's subjective, innit? - but it's rare that somebody can rate something so highly without me at least seeing what they're getting at. with movies at least, and american beauty notwithstanding


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## Dubversion (Jul 7, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> I thought it was totally awesome.
> 
> But I think we have (other than Sideways, which i really liked too) quite different taste in films... I count that new batman upwith the LOTR films, and I know you hate them too...



i actually thought LOTR was very well made for what it was: i'm no hobbit lover, but Jackson had a brilliant vision and followed it through, and it was consistent and focused.

BB was - IMO - a fucking mess.. didn't know what it wanted to be


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

Vixen said:
			
		

> you tell him!



Did you hate batman begins too


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i'm absolutely gobsmacked you think so highly of it.. not that i'm saying you're wrong - it's subjective, innit? - but it's rare that somebody can rate something so highly without me at least seeing what they're getting at. with movies at least, and american beauty notwithstanding



i need to watch it again, but I thought it was like as near as hollywood wil ever come to arthouse.


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## strummerville (Jul 7, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> strummerville's just upset because he HEARTS christian



Actually, I do. Rumbled again.   

Seriously, I think Bale is the most interetsing british actor around. He always takes the interesting route in his acting, might not be to everyones taste but he totally committs to the role, whether its American Psycho or batman. And he doesnt do the chat show, Richard Curtis circuit either. And calling Caine Dick Van Dyke... He's the real deal, what are you on about? Thought him and Bale worked really well together.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i actually thought LOTR was very well made for what it was: i'm no hobbit lover, but Jackson had a brilliant vision and followed it through, and it was consistent and focused.



Fair play... cos I remember before your view was that the LOTR films were like the worst films ever.  Now you seem to have mellowed that stance...


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## Stigmata (Jul 7, 2005)

strummerville said:
			
		

> Actually, I do. Rumbled again.
> 
> Seriously, I think Bale is the most interetsing british actor around. He always takes the interesting route in his acting, might not be to everyones taste but he totally committs to the role, whether its American Psycho or batman. And he doesnt do the chat show, Richard Curtis circuit either. And calling Caine Dick Van Dyke... He's the real deal, what are you on about? Thought him and Bale worked really well together.



Is Christian Bale a British actor? I always see him playing Americans so I assumed he was.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 7, 2005)

Yeah, born in Wales grew up in England.

I thought he was awesome in Empire of the Sun.  Iwas about the same age when I watched it, and totally loved it.

Then he had some dodgy years, but for me, Batman Begins is possib;ly the best film I have ever seen.


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## Dubversion (Jul 8, 2005)

he went to school in Bournemouth, my mate stole his girlfriend and broke his guitar


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## akirajoel (Jul 8, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> he went to school in Bournemouth, my mate stole his girlfriend and broke his guitar



Thats nice...


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## Stigmata (Jul 8, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> he went to school in Bournemouth, my mate stole his girlfriend and broke his guitar



Your mate should watch out, he's quite beefy at the moment.


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## Dubversion (Jul 8, 2005)

akirajoel said:
			
		

> Thats nice...



it was about 15 years ago, i suspect he's probably bounced back


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## akirajoel (Jul 8, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> it was about 15 years ago, i suspect he's probably bounced back



You think? Star of a major Hollywood movie and all that?   

And i wasn't having a go at the nicking the girlfriend bit - just the fact that someone broke his guitar - thats not nice. Happy smilie was not needed.

But i'll be damned if i'm going to get into a flaming over it...

So, like, whatever.   

That scarecrow guy was good weren't he? They should have used more of him. Etc.


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## djbombscare (Jul 8, 2005)

I saw this last night and I enjoyed it but it could have been a bit better. I've seen better films and I've seen a lot more worse ones. 

It was dark in all the right places, and the humour was a bit corny. In the same way it was with Roger Moore in James bond IMO.

I dunno if CB is right as Batman. Dont get me wrong he's better than Kilmer and Clooney I think, and I think he might just be a bit better than keaton, but Im not to sure. He's good but I just know that someone out there is going to be a much better batman and make the role his. 

Saying that and this may sound odd but CB is excellant as BRUCE WAYNE, 100% played that spot on. he just wasn't dark and mysterious enough for me as Batman if ya know what I mean.

I liked it all but I think it could have been a bit better.

LOVED the Batmobile


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## Leon (Jul 8, 2005)

Dudes this film was awesome. Much better than the other Batman films - and I liked them too.

It was simply on another level to them and will completely redefine Batman. The old films will be forgotten after this and its successors.


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## LDR (Jul 8, 2005)

I watched this today and thought it was ok but only ok.  I've only seen the Batman film with Adam West in it before this one.  

There still wasn't anything as good as the shark scene in Batman Begins. 







I also thought the car and car chase was really shit.


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## Dubversion (Jul 8, 2005)

Leon said:
			
		

> It was simply on another level to them and will completely redefine Batman. The old films will be forgotten after this and its successors.



dudes no it won't.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 8, 2005)

Leon said:
			
		

> Dudes this film was awesome. Much better than the other Batman films - and I liked them too.
> 
> It was simply on another level to them and will completely redefine Batman. The old films will be forgotten after this and its successors.


 Yep, fuck the others (even number two which I liked) this is the real shit!


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 8, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> dudes no it won't.



The film that I would compare this to more than anything is Unbreakable.  Also another more earthy/dark take on the superhero genre.  I had many people tell me it was shit when it originallyc ame out in 2000, so I didn't bother watching it, but I saw it last year and thought it was genius.

I think Batman Begins is similar - the sort of film that some people will think is utterly astounding, but some will say is mediocre.

I am dying to watch it again, personally.  Only Mrs RD won't let me waste another 40 RMB on another cinema ticket, so am waiting eagerly for a decent DVD copy so I can do a good analysis.

Hey DUb, aren't you going to do any reviews for the Urban review site?


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## Dubversion (Jul 8, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Hey DUb, aren't you going to do any reviews for the Urban review site?




i'd love to, i just never seem to have any time these days. my blog has ground to a halt, i never seem to read any more.

<note to self: drink less>


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 8, 2005)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Yep, fuck the others (even number two which I liked) this is the real shit!



I agree.  Even just the 'SWEAR TO ME!" line was worth the admission price by itself.

I can't remember the last film I saw that has me wanting to watch it again so soon after seeing it.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 8, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i'd love to, i just never seem to have any time these days. my blog has ground to a halt, i never seem to read any more.
> 
> <note to self: drink less>



Oh yeah, sorry, for saying you had crap taste in films earlier in this thread.  I was quite pissed when I wrote that...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 8, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i'd love to, i just never seem to have any time these days. my blog has ground to a halt, i never seem to read any more.
> 
> <note to self: drink less>


 There's a music one too now, surely you must have some burning desire to write somthing there?!


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## Dubversion (Jul 8, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, sorry, for saying you had crap taste in films earlier in this thread.  I was quite pissed when I wrote that...




ah, don't sweat it. i'm MUCH worse when i'm pissed


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## soluble duck (Jul 9, 2005)

I thought this film was pretty good as far as blockbusters go, but i dont think it was anything special

The whole drug induced frenzy thing was cool i suppose but was a bit too much like 28 Days Later and Jacobs Ladder.

sorry if these points have already been made


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## Random One (Jul 25, 2005)

i just heard on This Morning (so maybe not the best source-but still) that Justin Timberlake is tipped to be two-face in the next batman film


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 25, 2005)

Random One said:
			
		

> i just heard on This Morning (so maybe not the best source-but still) that Justin Timberlake is tipped to be the two-face in the next batman film


 Dear god no.


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## Random One (Jul 25, 2005)

well there are rumours of it everywhere

here
and here


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 25, 2005)

Nooooo! *covers eyes*


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## kyser_soze (Jul 25, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i'm absolutely gobsmacked you think so highly of it.. not that i'm saying you're wrong - it's subjective, innit? - but it's rare that somebody can rate something so highly without me at least seeing what they're getting at. with movies at least, and american beauty notwithstanding



Dub - this goes back to source material. What appears as realy deep and meaningful in a comic comes over as hackneyed and camp in film.

Having said that, I'm with RD on this one - great movie (almost a film in fact), ticks all the 'action' boxes, supreme visual aesthetic that after the gothic of TBs Gotham was really cool...and I think that Bale cuts it more than any prevoious occupants of the batsuit.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 3, 2005)

I think this was the best batman movie of the series, and maybe the best action film this summer.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Aug 4, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> I think this was the best batman movie of the series, and maybe the best action film this summer.



Without a doubt, although technically it was actually meant to be the first in a new series, as opposed to being a prequel to the old series (for instance, Tim Burton completely fabricated the idea that the Joker was the killer of Batman's parents)


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## Balbi (Aug 4, 2005)

And then tried to cover it up in later films, the daft kooky cunt


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## upsidedownwalrus (Aug 4, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> And then tried to cover it up in later films, the daft kooky cunt



Although, in fairness to him, he only did one of the 3 sequels...


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## Balbi (Aug 4, 2005)

He did produce Batman Forever, which is why it was almost passable. Almost.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Aug 4, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> He did produce Batman Forever, which is why it was almost passable. Almost.



This is indeed true, but I'm doubtful over whether he had much influence.  Having said that, BF was considerably better than B&R (although the bit where Robin puts the clothes away is one of the worst bits ever)


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## Balbi (Aug 4, 2005)

Can we stop talking about it now, I'm starting to get the headaches again


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2005)

Christ I just noticed I posted this thread a year ago tomorrow! How time flies...


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## upsidedownwalrus (Aug 4, 2005)

How did you manage to add the poll?


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2005)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> How did you manage to add the poll?



I've been made a Mod on the sly (ordained in the ultra secret elitist Mod Ordainment Forum). Alternatively I would say magic.


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## Balbi (Aug 4, 2005)

should the options not be

YES

DUB

HAVE NOT SEEN (YET)


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## tarannau (Aug 4, 2005)

I thought it was alright; watchable enough fare. Some silly things, but it's a comic book adaptation after all. 

I've only voted no because to add some balance to some of 'the best film ever' style gushing comments on here. It was entertaining, but I'm not going to remember big chunks of it very shortly. And Michael Caine was simply cack...


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2005)

TheLostProphet said:
			
		

> should the options not be
> 
> YES
> 
> ...



But that would make no sense as anwer to "Did you like Batman Begins?".


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## Random One (Aug 20, 2005)

looks like there will be a nice 2 disc DVD release


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## Kid_Eternity (Aug 20, 2005)

Random One said:
			
		

> looks like there will be a nice 2 disc DVD release



*clicks buy*


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## upsidedownwalrus (Aug 21, 2005)

I still haven't found a version that isn't in Russian here!


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## Badger Kitten (Aug 21, 2005)

Got a pirate DVD from Turkey and thought it was awesome. Liked the psychology stuff too; all the Jungian flawed hero/shadow side malarkey. All that stuff about not being consumed by revenge in the guise of 'justice', of becoming the thing that you hate. Liked the ninja training. Liked the bleakness ( though that might have been a slightly sepia tint from being a pirate). Bale excellent, can't wait for sequel


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## snadge (Mar 21, 2006)

just watched this on dvd and thought it pissed on everything batman that has been done in the past, apart from the comics leek..

loved it


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## Dubversion (Mar 22, 2006)

absolute shite. Fell between the two stools of Batman-noir and Batman-camp and therefore was shit.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Mar 22, 2006)

I can't remember a superhero film generating such extreme opinion...


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## upsidedownwalrus (Mar 22, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> absolute shite. Fell between the two stools of Batman-noir and Batman-camp and therefore was shit.



See, I disagree... If you look at most of the Batman comics, the style they are in _is_ in fact between the two.  Begins is by far the nearest thing to captuing the feel of both the comics, and also the animated series of the mid 90s (e.g. the mini film "Mask of the Phantasm")...

On a different note, I remember a while ago you said you were looking for the cheesy 60s Batman film... did you manage to find it? I got it off isohunt...


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## bluestreak (Mar 22, 2006)

i watched this the other night.  maybe it was the booze but i thought it was emiinantly unremarkable.  ok, not shit, not great.


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