# People like Louis CK and Norm Macdonald and Joe Rogan and Nick Mullen and so on and so on...



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

I know that they are all in different genres of entertainment in a way, but they are all successful from being transgressive, and they are hilarious to mr

What do you think of these people? 

I could write about how each one of them individually is doing something good, but it would be more interesting to hear why people hate them


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

CK's a sex case, Rogan's too boring to actually listen to but probably slightly dangerous and I don't have a clue who the other two are.

I'm not really sure what transgressive means in contemporary US culture anyway. Their President is openly racist, sexist and disablist and there's a race/civil war going on. What exactly are they transgressing? CK really shows how paper thin the whole concept of transgressive comedy is anyway. Being a sex case has completely undermined his whole right on dick jokes schtick.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

I wouldn't lump then together as people, they all seem very different. 

Their common factor is that they have a high proportion of youtube comment fans who are absolute dicks, and try to elevate them from being comedians up to being some kind of warriors in a made-up culture war against "snowflakes". When I think most of them are just trying to be (very wealthy and successful) comedians.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 4, 2020)

Joe Rogan acts as a platform for a number of alt-right figures and  starts people into that pipeline.



			https://datasociety.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/DS_Alternative_Influence.pdf


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Joe Rogan acts as a platform for a number of alt-right figures and  starts people into that pipeline.
> 
> 
> 
> https://datasociety.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/DS_Alternative_Influence.pdf


But...but he's really funny cause he smokes lots of weed. And he interviewed a left wing person too.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

Joe Rogan is also the odd one out because he's not a comedian, he's a podcast hustler who I suspect is used by people who are cleverer than him. Also way richer than all the others.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

Ok I didn't write that well. I was drunk. The reason that I tied them all together is because they are all wildly successful and they have filled some gap in pop culture. Louis and Rogan are from the same generation of comedians and, like Marc Maron and Bill Burr, they are a part of some thing that is interesting in itself how stand upcomedy has been elevated in the USA. I would equate it to how liberal people like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert kind of replaced the news for a time,. But let's start with Joe Rogan

He has the most successful podcast in the English speaking world and people take him very seriously, it's ridiculous to write him off. I mean even if you don't like him, aren't you interested why this guy has the most popular podcast in the world where he does 2 or 3 hour long unscripted interviews?
He gets people like Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk to come and do 2 hour long interviews, he had Bernie Sanders on and endorsed him which was front page news in the USA, it's redundant to just say 'I don't like his podcast'
I think that the association that he got with the 'alt-right' was very interesting in itself because you can see the path, he had a load of those (shudders to say it) 'intellectual dark web' people like Jordan Peterson and  Sam Harris on and they were wildly popular, and then he started having these alt-right people, but he seems to be moving away from that because those people are pretty toxic.


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## pesh (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> He has the most successful podcast in the English speaking world and people take him very seriously, it's ridiculous to write him off. I mean even if you don't like him, aren't you interested why this guy has the most popular podcast in the world where he does 2 or 3 hour long unscripted interviews?


no.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

He’s given a platform to some dangerous people who should be denied one. 
He’s a cheerleader for all sorts of dodgy shit. 
And he’s an unfunny bore.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Comedians Joe Rogan and Joey Diaz Laugh About Sexual Assault in Resurfaced Clip
					

In a clip that circulated Friday, comedian Joey Diaz tells Joe Rogan about forcing women to give him blowjobs to get stage time.



					www.thedailybeast.com


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## belboid (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I know that they are all in different genres of entertainment in a way, but they are all successful from being transgressive, and they are hilarious to mr
> 
> What do you think of these people?
> 
> I could write about how each one of them individually is doing something good, but it would be more interesting to hear why people hate them


I think you should fuck off.  Because you’re a misogynist turd


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

belboid said:


> I think you should fuck off.  Because you’re a misogynist turd



You shouldn't just say that to people who you don't know for no reason. That actually hurt my feelings even though I don't know who you are

If you are really against hatred then what do you think that you will achieve by just insulting someone you don't know based on their taste in mass media? come on man


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## Virtual Blue (Sep 4, 2020)

I listen to Joe Rogan on anything to do with fitness and martial arts, or when he has an interesting guest like Henry Rollins, De Grasse Tyson, Matthew Walker , Firas Zahabi etc...Dude interviews pretty much anyone.


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## xenon (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Ok I didn't write that well. I was drunk. The reason that I tied them all together is because they are all wildly successful and they have filled some gap in pop culture. Louis and Rogan are from the same generation of comedians and, like Marc Maron and Bill Burr, they are a part of some thing that is interesting in itself how stand upcomedy has been elevated in the USA. I would equate it to how liberal people like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert kind of replaced the news for a time,. But let's start with Joe Rogan
> 
> He has the most successful podcast in the English speaking world and people take him very seriously, it's ridiculous to write him off. I mean even if you don't like him, aren't you interested why this guy has the most popular podcast in the world where he does 2 or 3 hour long unscripted interviews?
> He gets people like Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk to come and do 2 hour long interviews, he had Bernie Sanders on and endorsed him which was front page news in the USA, it's redundant to just say 'I don't like his podcast'
> I think that the association that he got with the 'alt-right' was very interesting in itself because you can see the path, he had a load of those (shudders to say it) 'intellectual dark web' people like Jordan Peterson and  Sam Harris on and they were wildly popular, and then he started having these alt-right people, but he seems to be moving away from that because those people are pretty toxic.



most popular? Citation needed.


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## discokermit (Sep 4, 2020)

i quite like norm macdonald.


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## belboid (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> You shouldn't just say that to people who you don't know for no reason. That actually hurt my feelings even though I don't know who you are
> 
> If you are really against hatred then what do you think that you will achieve by just insulting someone you don't know based on their taste in mass media? come on man


It’s based upon everything you post.  You’re a sad creep


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## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

discokermit said:


> i quite like norm macdonald.


Me too.

Not heard of Chris Mullen but he sounds like a weasel from a quick google


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

belboid said:


> It’s based upon everything you post.  You’re a sad creep



Yes, I am. I'm trying to get better but I am not happy with who I am as a person.


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## bellaozzydog (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> Joe Rogan is also the odd one out because he's not a comedian, he's a podcast hustler who I suspect is used by people who are cleverer than him. Also way richer than all the others.



I think Rogan started off as a comedian


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## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

bellaozzydog said:


> I think Rogan started off as a comedian


He still does stand up


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

This thread is just horrible

I like those guys, the reason that I like them is because they are very open about being insecure. Yes they are not really, they have turned themselves into millionaires by working out how to put that insecurity into words. I'm sorry for starting it


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I like those guys, the reason that I like them is because they are very open about being insecure.


Maybe you should stop drinking and move out of your mum's house rather than sitting in front of the pc idolising sexual abusers. It's not doing you any good is it.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Not sure how that is admirable.
And in CK’s case, he’s monetised his own crimes by hiding in plain sight. And he still has a career, cos people are prepared to overlook his abuse cos he’s funny.
And Joe Rogan continues to legitimatise the likes of dangerous loons like Alex Jones. Fuck him.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

discokermit said:


> i quite like norm macdonald.


Yeh he is very funny. I mean so is louis ck too.


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## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> This thread is just horrible
> 
> I like those guys, the reason that I like them is because they are very open about being insecure. Yes they are not really, they have turned themselves into millionaires by working out how to put that insecurity into words. I'm sorry for starting it




What’s the merit in that though?

Commodifying and marketing your personal shit is just another kind of consumerism.


ETA
L’art pour l’art I guess.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I like those guys


I think the key is to not like celebrities who you will never meet or know! Enjoy their work, or not, but don't think of them like friends and don't be a fan.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> What’s the merit in that though?
> 
> Commodifying and marketing your personal shit is just another form consumerism.



That's what a lot of art is though. All of the Shakespeare that I did at school was about insecure men. It's a big subject
.


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## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> That's what a lot of art is though. All of the Shakespeare that I did at school was about insecure men. It's a big subject
> .




You’re right. Hence my edit. But Shakespeare is better than CKL.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> I think the key is to not like celebrities who you will never meet or know! Enjoy their work, or not, but don't think of them like friends and don't be a fan.



I love Frank Ocean, he's been world famous since he was about 18 and he always sings about being on drugs so I doubt I'd get on with him. Still love him though


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I love Frank Ocean, he's been world famous since he was about 18 and he always sings about being on drugs so I doubt I'd get on with him. Still love him though


you love his work, not him! you don't know him! I know that's probably what you meant but it is a key difference imo. 

Not getting too invested with entertainers as people means you don't end up defending them when they have done indefensible stuff, and also means it won't upset you when people express negative opinions about them as people.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

I mean I (and probably everyone else here) like a lot of work that has been produced by totally reprehensible human beings.

don't get me started on shakespeare's anti semitism


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Joe Rogan acts as a platform for a number of alt-right figures and  starts people into that pipeline.
> 
> 
> 
> https://datasociety.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/DS_Alternative_Influence.pdf


He's also an idiot and a snake oil merchant.


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

Let's not forget that Louis CK also basically called victims of a school shooting 'snowflakes' in a really hateful and unfunny bit of return stand-up. He's a low life and people like David Hogg have showed much more courage than he ever could muster.


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> This thread is just horrible
> 
> I like those guys, the reason that I like them is because they are very open about being insecure. Yes they are not really, they have turned themselves into millionaires by working out how to put that insecurity into words. I'm sorry for starting it


That's your problem. And don't blame us- we were just answering your question. If you didn't want to hear the answers you shouldn't have created the thread. Says alot about you that you like these people and then bitch when your question gets answered.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> Let's not forget that Louis CK also basically called victims of a school shooting 'snowflakes'


I mean that sounds pretty funny not defending him but that sounds pretty funny.

I do think it is lame how after every comedian puts out a special there are inevitably a load of clickbait articles that take some "shocking" thing they said totally out of context, and then everyone reposts it and argues about it. However I'm not bothered enough to join in the arguments.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> Maybe you should stop drinking and move out of your mum's house rather than sitting in front of the pc idolising sexual abusers. It's not doing you any good is it.



That's true of course. I didn't want to talk about me though. I started this thread because I have had a couple of arguments on here about liking them that disrupted the conversation. I don't idolise them, I just really enjoy their work and thought it might be productive to discuss what they are on about and why they get so much hatred.


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> I mean that sounds pretty funny not defending him but that sounds pretty funny


You're a sick, twisted piece of shit if you find that funny.


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## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

Virtual Blue said:


> I listen to Joe Rogan on anything to do with fitness and martial arts, or when he has an interesting guest like Henry Rollins, De Grasse Tyson, Matthew Walker , Firas Zahabi etc...Dude interviews pretty much anyone.



This.  Though he does go for people who are “controversial”, which includes some dodgy people as well as the interesting ones.


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> I mean that sounds pretty funny not defending him but that sounds pretty funny.
> 
> I do think it is lame how after every comedian puts out a special there are inevitably a load of clickbait articles that take some "shocking" thing they said totally out of context, and then everyone reposts it and argues about it. However I'm not bothered enough to join in the arguments.


By saying it's funny you are defending him and you are stupid to not notice that.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> You're a sick, twisted piece of shit if you find that funny.


For real? I think you need to get a sense of perspective.


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> For real? I think you need to get a sense of perspective.


No- you do. That wasn't even comedy, it was just a hate-filled far-right rant that CK did. Don't fucking lecture me on 'perspective' you idiot.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> That's your problem. And don't blame us- we were just answering your question. If you didn't want to hear the answers you shouldn't have created the thread. Says alot about you that you like these people and then bitch when your question gets answered.



No, the horrible thing is that people have had a go at me and it's not in the spirit of why I keep coming back here. 

The thing about school shootings was him attacking the news for exploiting kids who were in one of the school shootings by interviewing them about gun control in America. It was a leaked tape of a joke that he was trying out when he started doing short sets in comedy clubs. It was 'sick' in the same way that the Chris Morris stuff in the 90s was 'sick' where you attack tabloids by exaggerating their moralising


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

Fucking hell- has Marty1 invited some of his friends on to this site?! Fuck off you far-right cunts!


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> No, the horrible thing is that people have had a go at me and it's not in the spirit of why I keep coming back here.
> 
> The thing about school shootings was him attacking the news for exploiting kids who were in one of the school shootings by interviewing them about gun control in America. It was a leaked tape of a joke that he was trying out when he started doing short sets in comedy clubs. It was 'sick' in the same way that the Chris Morris stuff in the 90s was 'sick' where you attack tabloids by exaggerating their moralising


That's bollocks, he wasn't criticising the media, it was an out and out attack on victims of a school shooting.


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## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> That's bollocks, he wasn't criticising the media, it was an out and out attack on victims of a school shooting.



I think most of us would agree that that is a bad thing.  I haven’t heard it btw, and am not v. familiar with Louis CK generally.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> I think most of us would agree that that is a bad thing.  I haven’t heard it btw.


Me neither... It depends if it was done tastefully I guess.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> That's bollocks, he wasn't criticising the media, it was an out and out attack on victims of a school shooting.



The funny part of the joke was that they were 16 and they were being interviewed on the news discussing gun control as experts.


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> The thing about school shootings was him attacking the news for exploiting kids who were in one of the school shootings by interviewing them about gun control in America


This is incorrect. He was objecting to them testifying to congress.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> This is incorrect. He was objecting to them testifying to congress.


I mean none of this sounds roll on the floor funny, yet.


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## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> Me neither... It depends if it was done tastefully I guess.



I don’t think “tasteful” is necessarily possible.  It would depend on context and who the target is, though.


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> I mean none of this sounds roll on the floor funny, yet.






			
				Louis CK said:
			
		

> Testify in front of Congress, these kids, what the f***? What are you doing? Cause you went to a high school where kids got shot, why does that mean I have to listen to you? Why does that make you interesting? You didn't get shot. You pushed some fat kid in the way and now I gotta listen to you talking?


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

But seriously: there are tons of reasons to legitimately attack Louis CK as a person, and also his work... but blatantly making up something he didn't actually say doesn't do anyone any good.

^ that joke above, if that was it, i mean it isn't particularly funny and is a bit of a lazy shock joke but it very obviously isn't what count cuckula was saying it was eh.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> This is incorrect. He was objecting to them testifying to congress.



Ok, that is kind of the same thing only more though. They are not experts, they are victims of gun violence. The target is not the kids, it's them being promoted to expert level by powerful people. I can see the joke, it's not something that I could make funny, but I can see the intent.


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Ok, that is kind of the same thing only more though. They are not experts, they are victims of gun violence. The target is not the kids, it's them being promoted to expert level by powerful people. I can see the joke, it's not something that I could make funny, but I can see the intent.


So the point is that he really means it? Who should be called as expert witnesses on school shootings then?


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## two sheds (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Ok, that is kind of the same thing only more though. They are not experts, they are victims of gun violence. The target is not the kids, it's them being promoted to expert level by powerful people. I can see the joke, it's not something that I could make funny, but I can see the intent.



You don't think victims of crime should be heard by those in power?


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

bah it's not a joke with a serious point, it's just a throwaway shock joke, it's meaningless.

You know what jokes I do think are actually bad though? Those lame transgender jokes that literally every male american comedian does. Jeees for one they are SOO lazy and overdone a million times, they are so dumb, and for another they actually make life worse by increasing hate crimes. Have at him for those jokes.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> So the point is that he really means it? Who should be called as expert witnesses on school shootings then?



Experts

The joke is that they are promoted to experts because they survived an atrocity. Like if I fell off a cliff it doesn't make me an expert at climbing.


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Experts


I'm asking who you would think is an expert on school shootings and why the testimony of an eye witness would be of no interest. 'Experts' is not an answer.


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## discokermit (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> Fucking hell- has Marty1 invited some of his friends on to this site?! Fuck off you far-right cunts!


who the fuck are you? you cunt.


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## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> bah it's not a joke with a serious point, it's just a throwaway shock joke, it's meaningless.
> 
> You know what jokes I do think are actually bad though? Those lame transgender jokes that literally every male american comedian does. Jeees for one they are SOO lazy and overdone a million times, they are so dumb, and for another they actually make life worse by increasing hate crimes. Have at him for those jokes.



I’ve obv been out of the loop but am happy to remain ignorant of this particular joke.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> I’ve obv been out of the loop but am happy to remain ignorant of this particular joke.


It's not just one joke or person, pretty much every special put out by an american male comedian in the last few years has some version of it.

"ohh well I identify as a HELICOPTER lol!" SHUT UP SHUT UP

tbf I don't think this applies to norm macdonald to my knowledge, he tends to not do hacky stuff. But def Louis ck and dave chappelle (and i'm sure joe rogan if I could bear subjecting myself to more than a fraction of a second of him) do it. I happen to think Dave Chappelle is the greatest comedian who ever lived, but I've got no problem slating him for some stuff he says.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> I'm asking who you would think is an expert on school shootings and why the testimony of an eye witness would be of no interest. 'Experts' is not an answer.



People who understand child psychology, or pedagogy, or knew the killers, for example
It would be ridiculous to ask a normal high school student who hadn't been in a shooting to be an expert witness. These kids were in a famous one, they managed to hide or escape, they don't know why it happened though. 

And that is him taking an opinion to be funny not something offered up for debate.. What is funny is that they are completely normal high school children being treated by the most powerful people in the land as experts


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> It's not just one joke or person, pretty much every special put out by an american male comedian in the last few years has some version of it.
> 
> "ohh well I identify as a HELICOPTER lol!" SHUT UP SHUT UP






			
				Louis CK said:
			
		

> They're just boring. Telling you, 'you shouldn't say that'... what are you, an old lady? 'That's not appropriate' – f*** you, you're a child. They're like royalty, they tell you what to call them. 'You should address me as they/them because I identify as gender neutral.' OK. You should address me as 'there' because I identify as a location, and the location is your mother's c***.



I'll say one thing for him, he knows his audience.


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## discokermit (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> he tends to not do hacky stuff.


unless he's telling jokes that are a hundred years old and were bad to begin with.


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> People who understand child psychology, or pedagogy, or knew the killers, for example
> It would be ridiculous to ask a normal high school student who hadn't been in a shooting to be an expert witness. These kids were in a famous one, they managed to hide or escape, they don't know why it happened though.
> 
> And that is him taking an opinion to be funny not something offered up for debate.. What is funny is that they are completely normal high school children being treated by the most powerful people in the land as experts


They were giving evidence on the impact of school shootings, not medical opinions you nasty prick.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> I'll say one thing for him, he knows his audience.


I mean I am also his audience, but that joke is dogshit and vile. It isn't in any of his edited specials.


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## two sheds (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> People who understand child psychology, or pedagogy, or knew the killers, for example
> It would be ridiculous to ask a normal high school student who hadn't been in a shooting to be an expert witness. These kids were in a famous one, they managed to hide or escape, they don't know why it happened though.
> 
> And that is him taking an opinion to be funny not something offered up for debate.. What is funny is that they are completely normal high school children being treated by the most powerful people in the land as experts



They're not going to be treated as experts in child psychology, or pedagogy, or someone who knew the killers though are they? They're going to be treated as schoolkids who know what it's like to go through a school shooting and losing friends. 

What do you think of Alex Jones' take on it by the way? Presumably that's acceptable too.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

discokermit said:


> unless he's telling jokes that are a hundred years old and were bad to begin with.


quite. If anyone hasn't heard him before then oh my god this is probably the finest 5 minutes of joke ever recorded


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> They were giving evidence on the impact of school shootings, not medical opinions you nasty prick.



I'm not taking a position, I am explaining a joke.


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> I mean I am also his audience, but that joke is dogshit and vile. It isn't in any of his edited specials.


He doesn't get edited specials anymore.


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> quite. If anyone hasn't heard him before then oh my god this is probably the finest 5 minutes of joke ever recorded



From the little I watched just now he does seem quite funny but I'm now suspicious he has some sort of agenda because of the people that the OP has associated him with here.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> By saying it's funny you are defending him and you are stupid to not notice that.


Wtf. If that’s what you think, it’s you who’s the stupid one


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> From the little I watched just now he does seem quite funny but I'm now suspicious he has some sort of agenda because of the people that the OP has associated him with here.


It's like I said in my first post, unfortunately he has a lot of fans on youtube who are red pill dicks so occasionally gets lumped in there... but I've watched so much of his stuff and I think he really has no agenda other than old school comedy. Again I don't know him as a person obviously.


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## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

two sheds said:


> They're not going to be treated as experts in child psychology, or pedagogy, or someone who knew the killers though are they? They're going to be treated as schoolkids who know what it's like to go through a school shooting and losing friends.
> 
> What do you think of Alex Jones' take on it by the way? Presumably that's acceptable too.



Well I think that Alex Jones is also doing entertainment, but he tried to become a serious person and that was his downfall. I'm glad that he had a downfall because he had it coming

Alex Jones has been around forever peddling rubbish and accusing everyone of everything to tie into some weird Protocols of Zion conspiracy theory. My take on all of that malarkey is that it's a failure of people in power, and us as people who want to be positive to offer an alternative. It's very comforting and easy to think the worst, especially when it's in some mad story like the one that he has constructed.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

two sheds said:


> What do you think of Alex Jones' take on it by the way? Presumably that's acceptable too.


alex jones isn't a comedian.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Alex Jones is no better than those Rwandan radio DJs who encouraged Hutus to murder Tutsis.


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## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> He doesn't get edited specials anymore.


I mean he definitely does. There was one out in April this year I just checked.

Not put out by netflix or amazon or anything, but they never were on first release anyway, they were put out through his website.


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## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> I mean he definitely does. There was one out in April this year I just checked.
> 
> Not put out by netflix or amazon or anything, but they never were on first release anyway, they were put out through his website.


You're right, sorry. I hadn't realised he had released stuff at all.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 4, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> Joe Rogan is also the odd one out because he's not a comedian, he's a podcast hustler who I suspect is used by people who are cleverer than him. Also way richer than all the others.


He seems tremendously popular amongst a certain type of yootful male. I seem to have spent rather too long pointing out why "edgy" humour isn't always funny, and is often nasty. I think they're thinking, "OK, grandad, what would you know?" when I get going...


----------



## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I'm not taking a position, I am explaining a joke.


You've previously explicitly defended his sexual abuse but you won't go as far as defending his comedy?


----------



## existentialist (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Ok I didn't write that well. I was drunk. The reason that I tied them all together is because they are all wildly successful and they have filled some gap in pop culture. Louis and Rogan are from the same generation of comedians and, like Marc Maron and Bill Burr, they are a part of some thing that is interesting in itself how stand upcomedy has been elevated in the USA. I would equate it to how liberal people like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert kind of replaced the news for a time,. But let's start with Joe Rogan
> 
> He has the most successful podcast in the English speaking world and people take him very seriously, it's ridiculous to write him off. I mean even if you don't like him, aren't you interested why this guy has the most popular podcast in the world where he does 2 or 3 hour long unscripted interviews?
> He gets people like Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk to come and do 2 hour long interviews, he had Bernie Sanders on and endorsed him which was front page news in the USA, it's redundant to just say 'I don't like his podcast'
> I think that the association that he got with the 'alt-right' was very interesting in itself because you can see the path, he had a load of those (shudders to say it) 'intellectual dark web' people like Jordan Peterson and  Sam Harris on and they were wildly popular, and then he started having these alt-right people, but he seems to be moving away from that because those people are pretty toxic.


"popular" != "good"


----------



## discokermit (Sep 4, 2020)




----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> From the little I watched just now he does seem quite funny but I'm now suspicious he has some sort of agenda because of the people that the OP has associated him with here.



I shouldn't have put him in with them. He has been accused of being a right winger and so on but I think that he's just kind of a one off. There is a group of top comedians right now like Burr, Rogan, Louis etc who you could fit into a category but Norm shouldn't go into that category


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

This is an analysis of the Louis CK material, featuring the material itself, by a guy that does stand-up:



It's obviously just a hatefull dig at victims of a school shooting and nothing more.


----------



## belboid (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> top comedians right now like Burr, Rogan, Louis


None of them are top comedians


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> From the little I watched just now he does seem quite funny but I'm now suspicious he has some sort of agenda because of the people that the OP has associated him with here.


Crazy concept but you are allowed to find stand alone jokes funny even if the person telling them is a prize bellend. Everyone is funny sometimes. 

Louis CK is harder to find funny these days because he gives me the creeps, but it could still happen snd his early stuff was occasionally hilarious. 

I find Rogan irritating but did watch one interview the other day as it sounded interesting. His voice just grates on me more than anything as my ex was always listening to him and I do recall hearing him say some questionable things.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> You've previously explicitly defended his sexual abuse but you won't go as far as defending his comedy?



I didn't defend his sexual abuse, I think that the reaction was over the top and about something else. What actually happened is just one of those things where you just go 'eugh'. He was treated as if he was going around raping people, the actual stuff that we know seems more like he was kind of weird guy for a bit. I am so in favour of the way that all of these famous rapists and creeps have been outed and how it brought light on so much sex stuff that everyone always knew wasn't ok being given a pass, but I think with something like what he did, it's just 'yes, it wasn't ok, apologise'
I've had experiences like that as the victim with men and women and I'm a straight man. I know it's worse for women, I've never crossed that line but I have crossed other lines and I think that everyone does. 

I defend the joke as well. It wasn't a particularly good joke, it was a recording by someone at a gig he did when he was playing in small clubs after disappearing for a year. I honestly think that you should be able to try to make anything funny. Chris Morris is always the go to, he made a 40 minute long special about paedophiles and is probably still one of the funniest things that has ever been on TV


----------



## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I didn't defend his sexual abuse, I think that the reaction was over the top and about something else. What actually happened is just one of those things where you just go 'eugh'. He was treated as if he was going around raping people, the actual stuff that we know seems more like he was kind of weird guy for a bit.




That's you downplaying sexual assault again. You previously said that his sexual assault of two women in a hotel room was okay because they went to his room and he asked permission. Ignoring the bit about him blocking the door while still masturbating so they couldn't leave. Not a line I've crossed myself.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

maomao said:


> That's you downplaying sexual assault again. You previously said that his sexual assault of two women in a hotel room was okay because they went to his room and he asked permission. Ignoring the bit about him blocking the door while still masturbating so they couldn't leave. Not a line I've crossed myself.



He asked twice and they said yes. They said that they felt that they couldn't leave, you make it sound like he physically restrained them which is not even alleged. The actual account by the victims is that they went along with it because they thought that it was a joke and then when he actually did it they felt too freaked out to leave. 
Like I said, it's not ok, and it's not something that I would ever do, but it's more in the category of someone getting their dick out at a party.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 4, 2020)

Put down the shovel. You're  deep enough.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Put down the shovel. You're  deep enough.



I regret starting this. I joined up here and stayed to get a sense of community in a dark time for me and discuss intelligent stuff, not defend ginger perverts


----------



## maomao (Sep 4, 2020)

'I'm not defending him I


freakydave said:


> you make it sound like he physically restrained them which is not even alleged.



The original account was:



> We've heard from several sources that this shameless funnyman whips [his penis] out at the most inopportune moments, often at times when his female companions have expressed no interest in watching him go at it. A representative example: At the Aspen Comedy Festival a few years ago, he invited a female comedy duo back to his hotel room. The two ladies gladly joined him, and offered him some weed. He turned it down, but asked if it would be OK if he took his dick out.
> 
> Thinking he was joking (that's _exactly_ the kind of thing this guy would say), the women gave a facetious thumbs up. He wasn't joking. When he actually started jerking off in front of them, the ladies decided that wasn't their bag and made for the exit. But the comedian stood in front of the door, blocking their way with his body, until he was done.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

belboid said:


> None of them are top comedians



Well, Louis CK _was_.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> This is an analysis of the Louis CK material, featuring the material itself, by a guy that does stand-up:
> 
> 
> 
> It's obviously just a hatefull dig at victims of a school shooting and nothing more.



I cannot think of anything more pointless than watching an hour long video of someone analysing of why a standup comedy set isn't (or is) funny.


----------



## imposs1904 (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> Well, Louis CK _was_.



Bill Burr is.


----------



## imposs1904 (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I regret starting this. I joined up here and stayed to get a sense of community in a dark time for me and discuss intelligent stuff, not defend ginger perverts



Gingerist.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

imposs1904 said:


> Gingerist.


Some of my best friends are ginger


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2020)

I don't now who any of these people are.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I didn't defend his sexual abuse, I think that the reaction was over the top and about something else. What actually happened is just one of those things where you just go 'eugh'. He was treated as if he was going around raping people, the actual stuff that we know seems more like he was kind of weird guy for a bit. I am so in favour of the way that all of these famous rapists and creeps have been outed and how it brought light on so much sex stuff that everyone always knew wasn't ok being given a pass, but I think with something like what he did, it's just 'yes, it wasn't ok, apologise'
> I've had experiences like that as the victim with men and women and I'm a straight man. I know it's worse for women, I've never crossed that line but I have crossed other lines and I think that everyone does.
> 
> I defend the joke as well. It wasn't a particularly good joke, it was a recording by someone at a gig he did when he was playing in small clubs after disappearing for a year. I honestly think that you should be able to try to make anything funny. Chris Morris is always the go to, he made a 40 minute long special about paedophiles and is probably still one of the funniest things that has ever been on TV




The crucial difference here, Dave, is that Chris Morris wasn’t taking the piss out of the victims.




freakydave said:


> He asked twice and they said yes. They said that they felt that they couldn't leave, you make it sound like he physically restrained them which is not even alleged. The actual account by the victims is that they went along with it because they thought that it was a joke and then when he actually did it they felt too freaked out to leave.
> Like I said, it's not ok, and it's not something that I would ever do, but it's more in the category of someone getting their dick out at a party.



Okay.

I get it now.

I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt before this. I thought you we’re just struggling with the usual Urban hazing process but you’ve now outed yourself as a thoughtless stubborn misogynist.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> This is an analysis of the Louis CK material, featuring the material itself, by a guy that does stand-up:
> 
> 
> 
> It's obviously just a hatefull dig at victims of a school shooting and nothing more.




That's a pretty devastating takedown.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> The crucial difference here, Dave, is that Chris Morris wasn’t taking the piss out of the victims.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No, I am trying to learn.  I do regret posting that. I am confident that I could defend why I like that comedy, but the sexual abuse stuff I am very ignorant. I definitely do have Louis on a pedestal because his TV and stand up speak to me


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

I know it's self indulgent posting this but I have upset myself in this argument. I do spend too much time listening to this kind of stuff. I give people who actually live for art a pass, but that ties into my prejudices just like everything in life. 
I did want to talk about why I value this kind of art even though they are dodgy people but I can't express it so it just became 
 something else

It's not just about 'its hard being a white guy' it's about alienation. I can't write or draw it but they have found a way to relate it.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I know it's self indulgent posting this but I have upset myself in this argument. I do spend too much time listening to this kind of stuff. I give people who actually live for art a pass, but that ties into my prejudices just like everything in life.
> I did want to talk about why I value this kind of art even though they are dodgy people but I can't express it so it just turned into something else


From personal experience, I can tell you that Urban can sometimes be a "schooling" experience...

Some of it can be (excessively) brutal - though I don't think that's been the case on here - but there is a lot to be learned and gained from, if you're prepared to endure a bit of the brutality and actually gain some new ideas from the responses you get. I still stay a country mile away from threads involving feminism, but have managed to gain a great deal of insight from some of the discussions (both ones I did participate in, and those I've just observed from the sidelines), just as an example.

So, rather than being hurt at your thread not going the way you expected it to, my advice to you is to take a long step back, and look at what's going on here with a view to seeing the points behind what people are saying to you in response.

There are a few areas which, on Urban, aren't treated quite the same as your typical man-down-the-pub: sexual exploitation is one of those, and you're always going to have to back yourself up pretty robustly if you want to support or defend someone who's got as much baggage in that department as - for example - Louis CK. Because if you're holding him up as an example of a good comedian, you're going to have to deal with the inevitable responses about that baggage.

FWIW, there are increasing revelations going on at the moment about just how misogynistic and exploitative the comedy scene can be for women. The case you cite of the comedy duo going back to his room is a good example of where you're looking at a specific incident which is really the tip of an iceberg of oppressive, abusive, and exploitative behaviours that female comics are exposed (sometimes literally ) to. You may see it as a one-off, and even perceive consent from the two female comedians; others, me included, see it as almost certainly a big name comedian using his influence and status to put two far less established people into a very difficult position, where they may have felt that calling out his behaviour could cost them, either personally, financially, or in terms of their careers in comedy. Which is not OK, whatever the justification - it just shouldn't happen. And someone who does that needs (at the very least) to have that pointed out in no uncertain terms. Not excused or justified.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

existentialist said:


> There are a few areas which, on Urban, aren't treated quite the same as your typical man-down-the-pub: sexual exploitation is one of those, and you're always going to have to back yourself up pretty robustly if you want to support or defend someone who's got as much baggage in that department as - for example - Louis CK. Because if you're holding him up as an example of a good comedian, you're going to have to deal with the inevitable responses about that baggage.



I think part of the issue is about whether you stop considering someone a good comedian when you stop considering them a good person.  It's part of an old and thorny argument.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

existentialist said:


> From personal experience, I can tell you that Urban can sometimes be a "schooling" experience...
> 
> Some of it can be (excessively) brutal - though I don't think that's been the case on here - but there is a lot to be learned and gained from, if you're prepared to endure a bit of the brutality and actually gain some new ideas from the responses you get. I still stay a country mile away from threads involving feminism, but have managed to gain a great deal of insight from some of the discussions (both ones I did participate in, and those I've just observed from the sidelines), just as an example.
> 
> ...


thank you for that. I sort of did ask for a fight starting a thread about what I had disagree with people about  so it is on me.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> No, I am trying to learn.  I do regret posting that. I am confident that I could defend why I like that comedy, but the sexual abuse stuff I am very ignorant. I definitely do have Louis on a pedestal because his TV and stand up speak to me




Then you need to have a good long think about the part of you that feels as if it’s being spoken to or expressed by this kind of arsehole.

But it’s good that you’re trying to learn.

You could do worse than go back and look some of the really long and sometimes anguished threads about sexism misogyny feminism toxic masculinity and the #metoo movement.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

I think that the problem is that 





8ball said:


> I think part of the issue is about whether you stop considering someone a good comedian when you stop considering them a good person.  It's part of an old and thorny argument.


this 

I think good comedians are up there showing weakness so it is hard to accept that they are weak


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Then you need to have a good long think about the part of you that feels as if it’s being spoken to or expressed by this kind of arsehole.



I don't agree with this.  Louis CK was really popular with heaps of people before certain revelations, and very many felt very let down.
How do you personally guarantee that someone whose art resonates with you never does something to disgrace themselves?


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

Could someone post the links, or name the threads please? Not all of them were titled with those words and I can’t remember them all now.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Then you need to have a good long think about the part of you that feels as if it’s being spoken to or expressed by this kind of arsehole.
> 
> But it’s good that you’re trying to learn.
> 
> You could do worse than go back and look some of the really long and sometimes anguished threads about sexism misogyny feminism toxic masculinity and the #metoo movement.



well the big appeal of these guys is that you are being told to learn and do homework and get upset and you don't even understand yourself


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> I don't agree with this.  Louis CK was really popular with heaps of people before certain revelations, and very many felt very let down.
> How do you personally guarantee that someone whose art resonates with you never does something to disgrace themselves?




Yes of course, and the same for any number of others who’ve subsequently been exposed as problematic.

But hindsight.


Knowing what we now know, how can you have LCK “on a pedestal”? How can you feel that he speaks for you, expresses your innermost self, if he’s demonstrably an arsehole? At the very least, even if you find some of what he says personally meaningful, you need to qualify it with really fucking obvious caveats.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> well the big appeal of these guys is that you are being told to learn and do homework and get upset and you don't even understand yourself




Huh?


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> well the big appeal of these guys is that you are being told to learn and do homework and get upset and you don't even understand yourself




You’re saying that the appeal of problematic arseholes is that they help you to realise you’re a problemaric arsehole?


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Yes of course, and the same for any number of others who’ve subsequently been exposed as problematic.
> 
> But hindsight.
> 
> ...



I put him on pedestal because he has explained a lot to me and his TV shows were amazing.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Knowing what we now know, how can you have LCK “on a pedestal”? How can you feel that he speaks for you, expresses your innermost self, if he’s demonstrably an arsehole? At the very least, even if you find some of what he says personally meaningful, you need to qualify it with really fucking obvious caveats.



Yes, everyone is a mixed bag of good and bad stuff, and in this case the bad led to him doing some pretty bad stuff.  The bits that people will find meaningful relate to the common human experience and his manner of expressing thoughts about it. 

The "pedestal" element is part of the problem.  Picasso was a shit to women, Shakespeare an anti-Semite, we could go on.  Maybe we should have pre-emptive caveats so that no one ends up on a pedestal.

edit:  I think mostly, these kinds of arguments become a distraction from considering how we could stop such abuses continuing to happen in the future.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

The big joke that Louis CK gets at for me is that everyone is meant to pretend that everything is wonderful and enjoy it even when it isn't.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> Yes, everyone is a mixed bag of good and bad stuff, and in this case the bad led to him doing some pretty bad stuff.  The bits that people will find meaningful relate to the common human experience and his manner of expressing thoughts about it.
> 
> The "pedestal" element is part of the problem.  Picasso was a shit to women, Shakespeare an anti-Semite, we could go on.  Maybe we should have pre-emptive caveats so that no one ends up on a pedestal.
> 
> edit:  I think mostly, these kinds of arguments become a distraction from considering how we could stop such abuses continuing to happen in the future.



These pedestals seem to cause more harm than good


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

btw you still haven’t withdrawn your assertion that CK is not a criminal and you’re still minimising his behaviour


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Yes of course, and the same for any number of others who’ve subsequently been exposed as problematic.
> 
> But hindsight.
> 
> ...



My innermost self isn't all that great. 
People are horrible. I am an optimist as well, but everyone is ill and a bit weird. I find optimism in the fact that everyone is a bit weird. You grow up thinking that you are weird because you have something wrong with you, and then you live in the real world and everyone has something wrong with them. I'm an optimist because we only realised that in my lifetime and the idea of the mind is modern history, we might be fixed in a couple of generations


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I'm an optimist because we only realised that in my lifetime and the idea of the mind is modern history, we might be fixed in a couple of generations



I’ve no idea what that last bit means.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> I’ve no idea what that last bit means.



When I was a kid being gay was something that would fuck your life up, racism was not allowed but it was not a big deal to be racist. A teenager now just couldn't relate to that


----------



## petee (Sep 4, 2020)

i've never watched the other three. macdonald i've watched alot and he can be brilliantly funny, and he can be reactionary and crude and merely provoking.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I find optimism in the fact that everyone is a bit weird. You grow up thinking that you are weird because you have something wrong with you, and then you live in the real world and everyone has something wrong with them.


tell that to the Greeks!


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> When I was a kid being gay was something that would fuck your life up, racism was not allowed but it was not a big deal to be racist. A teenager now just couldn't relate to that


Are you not paying attention to what's going on around the world right now?


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Are you not paying attention to what's going on around the world right now?



I think that that is a last stand sort of thing. Capitalism is failing and we are all poor, but society has progressed a lot. Just even the bullshit version of what you are meant to do was racist and homophobic when I was a kid


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

when our parents were kids they only knew about 3 mental illnesses lol


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> Yes, everyone is a mixed bag of good and bad stuff, and in this case the bad led to him doing some pretty bad stuff.  The bits that people will find meaningful relate to the common human experience and his manner of expressing thoughts about it.
> 
> The "pedestal" element is part of the problem.  Picasso was a shit to women, Shakespeare an anti-Semite, we could go on.  Maybe we should have pre-emptive caveats so that no one ends up on a pedestal.
> 
> edit:  I think mostly, these kinds of arguments become a distraction from considering how we could stop such abuses continuing to happen in the future.





Not all artists.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 4, 2020)

Not all arses are arses.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> I think part of the issue is about whether you stop considering someone a good comedian when you stop considering them a good person.  It's part of an old and thorny argument.


Yes, I quite carefully swerved that point . I can think of people who've said things that I thought were hilarious, but who were clearly not particularly nice people IRL. FWIW, I enjoy Van Morrison's music, but am aware that he's a complete and utter curmudgeonly miserable bastard to work with. Some separation is fine...but if someone's going to big up an artist with baggage, it's an inevitable consequence that the baggage is going to end up being part of the debate.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

Well I'm sure that at least 50% of people on here will agree with me that David Bowie was a hero, but he wasn't a nice person until he got old.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

wow, i just love this shovel


----------



## Reno (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> wow, i just love this shovel


The one you are digging your grave with ?


----------



## freakydave (Sep 4, 2020)

Reno said:


> The one you are digging your grave with ?



No I'm using it to club women to drag back to my cave


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

I watch/listen to the occasional JR podcast.  If it's a guest I find offensive, boring or am just not that interested in, I don't bother.  The idea that JR is a gateway to the right is nonsense.  Many of his opinions would put him on the liberal left.  What he does seem to be against is the more censorious left - as am I...  The person that got into me Joe was a U.S. woman of Mexican lineage, who I can assure you definitely isn't a Trump supporter.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I watch/listen to the occasional JR podcast.  If it's a guest I find offensive, boring or am just not that interested in, I don't bother.  The idea that JR is a gateway to the right is nonsense.  Many of his opinions would put him on the liberal left.  What he does seem to be against is the more censorious left - as am I...  The person that got into me Joe was a U.S. woman of Mexican lineage, who I can assure you definitely isn't a Trump supporter.



He's definitely quite left-wing by USA standards.  I don’t particularly mind people doing interviews with problematic people if it shows them up for what they are.  The thing with anyone who interviews controversial guests is that we’re not going to agree.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

editor said:


> I don't now who any of these people are.



That's interesting, because I'm sure you've responded to a post about JR in the past.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> That's interesting, because I'm sure you've responded to a post about JR in the past.


If I did, I have zero recollection of it.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 4, 2020)

A search says you had a brief look at a Twitter spat in 2013 in which you thought Rogan seemed like an arse. Not surprised you don't remember it!


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

editor said:


> If I did, I have zero recollection of it.



Well, none of us are as young as we used to be.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> He's definitely quite left-wing by USA standards.  I don’t particularly mind people doing interviews with problematic people if it shows them up for what they are.  The thing with anyone who interviews controversial guests is that we’re not going to agree.



He's left on some things, right on other things.  He's quite into guns, but does make the argument hunting for food is way more humane than factory farming...  If I don't 100% agree with him on everything, I can usually at least see the logic of where he's coming from.  Americans are generally weird politically though.    A JR debate crept into another thread recently and it was brought up how different the US view on Israel is to the view of the 'average' UK person.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

8ball said:


> He's definitely quite left-wing by USA standards.  I don’t particularly mind people doing interviews with problematic people if it shows them up for what they are.  The thing with anyone who interviews controversial guests is that we’re not going to agree.


you're mistaking left-wing with right-wing libertarianism


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> you're mistaking left-wing with right-wing libertarianism



He was backing Bernie Sanders.  Also has a liking for Tulsi Gabbard.  More left wing in some areas than what the current Democrats are offering.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> you're mistaking left-wing with right-wing libertarianism



You’re confusing ignorance with knowledge.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> He was backing Bernie Sanders.  Also has a liking for Tulsi Gabbard.  More left wing in some areas than what the current Democrats are offering.


He's so left wing, he's going to vote for Trump


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> He's so left wing, he's going to vote for Trump



Is that confirmed?      He said he would definitely have voted for Bernie, but made noises that if Bernie wasn't the nominee, he might vote Trump.  Dunno if that's still on the cards..  I'd hope he comes to his senses.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

He's not left-wing, he's libertarian. He doesn't give a fuck about anyone else. He's just for individual rights.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Is that confirmed?      He said he would definitely have voted for Bernie, but made noises that if Bernie wasn't the nominee, he might vote Trump.  Dunno if that's still on the cards..  I'd hope he comes to his senses.


Joe Rogan would 'rather vote for Trump than Biden' after endorsing Sanders


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> Joe Rogan would 'rather vote for Trump than Biden' after endorsing Sanders



Yup, that's old, though.  As I said, I hope he's changed his mind.  There doesn't appear to be any recent statement.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 4, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Joe Rogan acts as a platform for a number of alt-right figures and  starts people into that pipeline.
> 
> 
> 
> https://datasociety.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/DS_Alternative_Influence.pdf



Joe Rogan certainly has a very diverse guest line up.

He’s not a scared little mouse hiding behind the curtains.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> He's not left-wing, he's libertarian. He doesn't give a fuck about anyone else. He's just for individual rights.



He's against the private prison system.  He's pro healthcare for all.  He's against factory farming.  Those are just (off the top of my head) some opinions he holds which makes me think he does care at least as much as the average person.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Yup, that's old, though.  As I said, I hope he's changed his mind.  There doesn't appear to be any recent statement.


If he was "left wing". Why would he even contemplate voting for Trump (or Biden, for that matter)?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> If he was "left wing". Why would he even contemplate voting for Trump (or Biden, for that matter)?



You can only really vote of one or two in the U.S..  He explained Biden was too old to vote for.  

Look, he's obviously not Jeremy Corbyn but his politics are reasonable by U.S. standards (and not as bad as some Brits I know).


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

freakydave said:


> What is funny is that they are completely normal high school children being treated by the most powerful people in the land as experts


That's just your opinion and it's not funny.


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> You can only really vote of one or two in the U.S..  He explained Biden was too old to vote for.


You don't have to endorse or vote for anyone.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> He doesn't give a fuck about anyone else. He's just for individual rights.


Like certain people on this thread


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> You don't have to endorse or vote for anyone.



I would always use my vote, even if it is for the lesser evil (which it usually is).


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I would always use my vote, even if it is for the lesser evil (which it usually is).


That just allows you the choice of which colour boot you want stamping on your face.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> You can only really vote of one or two in the U.S..  He explained Biden was too old to vote for.



Fair play but even a dead Biden would be better than a live Trump.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> Like certain people on this thread


who? think you're probably wrong. you've already mistook people here for far right when the opposite is true


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> who? think you're probably wrong. you've already mistook people here for far right when the opposite is true


Whatevz. Some liberals and people on the left are just as bad as fascists anyway.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2020)

The case with LCK stands interesting comparison to Kevin Spacey (also yet to be convicted of any crime, and accused of non violent sexual assaults, although if we are splitting hairs, I’d agree they’re a bit more sinister).  Like CK, Spacey’s crimes were an open secret in certain circles, and part of the wrongness in both cases is embedded in an industry that didn’t hold these powerful men to account on behalf of the most vulnerable among them.  

There are two differences though. Spacey was a man at the absolute pinnacle of his profession, commanding Hollywood, the Golden Age of TV drama AND having turned around the artistic and commercial status of The Old Vic, earning many calls for an honourary knighthood... and I don’t think he will ever work again. There’s no feeling that he’s due a rehabilitation. He filmed-but-not-released work was either re-shot or abandoned. The star of The Usual Suspects, American Beauty and LA Confidential is over and out.

Louis CK was highly successful, though not as mainstream-famous outside America. Nevertheless he was immensely powerful and undoubtedly rich enough to retire from performance (and perhaps command huge sums as a top tier comedy writer, if his greed for the millionaire lifestyle was too strong). But he’s made it clear that he feels entitled to continue taking up limited space in the very industry his victims are also working to succeed in. In fact his recent work suggests that he’s planning to capitalise on the harm he did to others, by creating work that will better appeal to the alt-right shit-stains that think “the feminazis done him wrong”.

The other difference is the type of artist these men are.  While Spacey was an actor, LCK is a stand up comedian whose work is at some level a communication of himself, his thoughts and feelings.  I used to have enormous respect for Kevin Spacey.  He might’ve been the finest American actor of his generation.  You might say I had him on a pedestal.  Yet despite never being himself on screen, I would never want to sit and watch a new Kevin Spacey film.  It’s taking a while for me to want to watch his old ones.  I have no idea how you can still enjoy and want to watch new work from CK, knowing what he did - because CK’s work is all about _him_.  The sexually exploitative man who repeatedly abused his professional power to use those less powerful as a prop for his sexual gratification. If you know the bloke’s personality is dogshit, and you know all his new work is created from a position in which he knows that everyone in the audience knows he’s a cunt to women and don’t care...  how can you support him? How can this new, real version of him, still be on your pedestal?


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> You can only really vote of one or two in the U.S..  He explained Biden was too old to vote for.


Sanders is older than Biden, though.  And Trump is only four years younger than Biden.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Spot on, spanglechick - it's the fact that it's no longer possible to separate his onstage persona from his real one - he hid in plain sight as someone with horrible thoughts who does shameful things, but we mistook that for an exaggerated misanthropic stage persona, not an actual one.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

spanglechick - what do you mean by 'non-violent sexual assault'? seems a contradiction in terms to me.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Joe Rogan certainly has a very diverse guest line up.
> 
> He’s not a scared little mouse hiding behind the curtains.


He's an idiot who enables and promotes the far-right- like you, which is why you make out that he's some kind of heroic pioneer, he's not.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 4, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Joe Rogan certainly has a very diverse guest line up.
> 
> He’s not a scared little mouse hiding behind the curtains.


God you're a twat!


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> spanglechick - what do you mean by 'non-violent sexual assault'? seems a contradiction in terms to me.


Assault is any unwanted physical contact (without legal mitigation).  Spacey (iirc) would get into bed with sleeping / drunk young men and press against them / wait to see if they would have sex with him when they woke up.

edit - of course, when you’re not much more than a kid and you wake up in bed with one of the most powerful people you’ll ever meet, any “consent” is not given from a position of equality.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Anyone with such a huge listenership who gives a platform to Alex Jones, anti-vaxxers and other conspiraloons deserves to be ignored forever


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

spanglechick said:


> Assault is any unwanted physical contact (without legal mitigation).  Spacey (iirc) would get into bed with sleeping / drunk young men and press against them / wait to see if they would have sex with him when they woke up.


I would class that as violence, you don't have to hit people to assault them. you don't even have to touch them.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

spanglechick said:


> Sanders is older than Biden, though.  And Trump is only four years younger than Biden.



I didn't say it made any sense.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 4, 2020)

Rogan is a bore.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> I would class that as violence, you don't have to hit people to assault them. you don't even have to touch them.


I’ve not seen a legal definition of assault that is non-physical.  
Violent is not in itself a legal term.  I know there are circles who use it to include verbal harassment, but I think it’s more commonly understood to mean physical force.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

spanglechick said:


> I’ve not seen a legal definition of assault that is non-physical.
> Violent is not in itself a legal term.  I know there are circles who use it to include verbal harassment, but I think it’s more commonly understood to mean physical force.


A threat or threatening behaviour can constitute assault in the UK. Dunno about US.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2020)

In the auld days there'd have been at least two bannings on this thread


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> A threat or threatening behaviour can constitute assault in the UK. Dunno about US.


Tapping a cop with a notebook has been known to end in arrest for assault pc


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

spanglechick said:


> I’ve not seen a legal definition of assault that is non-physical.
> Violent is not in itself a legal term.  I know there are circles who use it to include verbal harassment, but I think it’s more commonly understood to mean physical force.


But from what you're saying, getting in bed with someone sleeping and pressing against them until they acquiesce is surely physical force? Esp if in you're a position of power and the victim sees no other way out.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

Dandred said:


> Rogan is a bore.



When I listen to a Rogan pod, I tend to listen for the guest, not Joe. Never listened to his stand up comedy and not tempted to. I think he'd be a fun enough chap to have a beer and a smoke with though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> A threat or threatening behaviour can constitute assault in the UK. Dunno about US.


Can it? Threatening words / behaviour a separate offence under the poa
Pls link to your authority


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> Can it? Threatening words / behaviour a separate offence under the poa
> Pls link to your authority


A lazy google finds this as the top find:




__





						Assault | Your Local Police | West Midlands Police
					

As assault is where a person intentionally or recklessly uses unlawful force against someone else. Assaults are usually categorised by the injuries caused. Common assault, actual bodily harm (ABH) and grievous bodily harm (GBH) are all criminal offences and cover a range of injuries from bruises...




					www.west-midlands.police.uk
				



"As assault is where a person intentionally or recklessly uses unlawful force against someone else. Assaults are usually categorised by the injuries caused. Common assault, actual bodily harm (ABH) and grievous bodily harm (GBH) are all criminal offences and cover a range of injuries from bruises or scratches through to life threatening injuries.

However an assault can take place even if no force is used. If someone threatens to assault you, but there is no physical violence, then the threats alone could be enough for this to be considered an assault. If someone intentionally spits at you then this may also be an assault."


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I didn't say it made any sense.


While the rest of us can get away with being mindless twats, if you set yourself up as a public figure, and moreover a public figure with enough weight to endorse a presidential candidate, then you ought to have at least enough integrity as to make logically consistent arguments.  

I’d strongly assert that any self-styled political “endorser” who lacks that basic level of integrity should forfeit the attention of any intelligent person, regardless of their political beliefs.  Russell Brand endorsed Ed Milliband, but Brand isn’t someone with the wherewithal to speak for the politics of a nation, so I’m cant use his temporary Labour support as a reason to defend his general awfulness.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> When I listen to a Rogan pod, I tend to listen for the guest, not Joe. Never listened to his stand up comedy and not tempted to. I think he'd be a fun enough chap to have a beer and a smoke with though.


despite knowing the shit he talks and the people he's matey with and him joking with his mates about coercing fans into oral sex?


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> A lazy google finds this as the top find:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I stand corrected.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> A lazy google finds this as the top find:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah yes, it's the battery which is the actual violence


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> despite knowing the shit he talks and the people he's matey with and him joking with his mates about coercing fans into oral sex?



Not heard that stuff, I don't know the context. I find Diaz quite amusing. I wouldn't take everything he says at face value. IIRC he was in The Sopranos - are we allowed to watch that?  Most people will have said things or laughed at things that are "wrong" at some point.  JR has had loads of people I admire or like on his podcast.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

I would classify waking up to finding someone trying to physically have sex with you against your will as a violent assault


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not heard that stuff, I don't know the context. I find Diaz quite amusing. I wouldn't take everything he says at face value. IIRC he was in The Sopranos - are we allowed to watch that?  Most people will have said things or laughed at things that are "wrong" at some point.  JR has had loads of people I admire or like on his podcast.


you're allowed to watch anything you want you daft wally. This is such arsery. 'I wouldn't take everything he says at face value' - what the fuck doe that even mean? Either he joked and made light of sexually assaulting fans, or he didn't


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 4, 2020)

Dandred said:


> Rogan is a bore.



He’s just signed with Spotify for $100 million.

He’s clearly massively popular and at the top of his trade - the king of podcasts if you will.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> He’s just signed with Spotify for $100 million.
> 
> He’s clearly massively popular and at the top of his trade - the king of podcasts if you will.


popular doesn't mean right(eous)


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 4, 2020)

Or not-shit


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> popular doesn't mean right(eous)



Rogan has billions of his podcasts watched (YouTube) or listened to (Podcasts) so it does nonetheless prove he has content and guests that people want to hear.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 4, 2020)

2 billion views of Gangnam Style


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Rogan has billions of his podcasts watched (YouTube) or listened to (Podcasts) so it does nonetheless prove he has content and guests that people want to hear.


so?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 4, 2020)

Baby Shark six billion


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> so?


So Marty1 knows the price of everything and the value of nothing


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> you're allowed to watch anything you want you daft wally. This is such arsery. 'I wouldn't take everything he says at face value' - what the fuck doe that even mean? Either he joked and made light of sexually assaulting fans, or he didn't



Him and his comedy club pals do trade in really offensive material though (supposedly), just to see how far they can push. He discussed this with a couple of female comedians on a recent pod.  Both of them have been victims of assault.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Him and his comedy club pals do trade in really offensive material though (supposedly), just to see how far they can push. He discussed this with a couple of female comedians on a recent pod.  Both of them have been victims of assault.


Oh that’s ok then. Think for yourself ffs


----------



## strung out (Sep 4, 2020)

S☼I said:


> 2 billion views of Gangnam Style


You take that back, Gangnam Style is a banger.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Oh that’s ok then. Think for yourself ffs



I do. And that's why I don't give a hoot about what some on here think about JR and his podcasts.  You'll have missed out on some good conversations.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 4, 2020)

strung out said:


> You take that back, Gangnam Style is a banger.



too right 

/goes off to watch it _again _


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I do. And that's why I don't give a hoot about what some on here think about JR and his podcasts.  You'll have missed out on some good conversations.


then why do the likes of you and Marty keep quoting viewing figures as if to legitimise their bullshit?


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 4, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I do. And that's why I don't give a hoot about what some on here think about JR and his podcasts.  You'll have missed out on some good conversations.



Yup, JR is popular because his podcasts are quality.  Some of the ones I’ve watched I don’t even know who his guests are but found myself enthralled listening to archaeologists, quantum theorists etc.

The Elon Musk podcast was superb.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 4, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> then why do the likes of you and Marty keep quoting viewing figures as if to legitimise their bullshit?


I've never quoted viewing figures. I couldn't give a rat's ass if what I like is popular or not.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 5, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> then why do the likes of you and Marty keep quoting viewing figures as if to legitimise their bullshit?



Because the likes of you just turn up in a discussion to say 'oh I don't like them, it's boring'


----------



## xenon (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> No, I am trying to learn.  I do regret posting that. I am confident that I could defend why I like that comedy, but the sexual abuse stuff I am very ignorant. I definitely do have Louis on a pedestal because his TV and stand up speak to me



I think you need to grow up a bit. I mean you can laugh at his stuff, find things he has said funny, sure I have why not. but don’t defend him when he’s being a creepy scumbag. I mean it just makes you look like you’re on side with that. Have your own voice for God sake. what he did is fucked up, not normal that’s not just some banter or a joke. oh and that thing about the kids. That is arsehole behaviour. Siding with power. A bit cretinous.
Anyway I quite like Bill Burr. Sure he won’t be everyone’s cup of tea but I can laugh at what I laugh at. If I think someone is being an arsehole I can say so too.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 5, 2020)

What are you trying to learn?


----------



## freakydave (Sep 5, 2020)

spanglechick said:


> The case with LCK stands interesting comparison to Kevin Spacey (also yet to be convicted of any crime, and accused of non violent sexual assaults, although if we are splitting hairs, I’d agree they’re a bit more sinister).  Like CK, Spacey’s crimes were an open secret in certain circles, and part of the wrongness in both cases is embedded in an industry that didn’t hold these powerful men to account on behalf of the most vulnerable among them.
> 
> There are two differences though. Spacey was a man at the absolute pinnacle of his profession, commanding Hollywood, the Golden Age of TV drama AND having turned around the artistic and commercial status of The Old Vic, earning many calls for an honourary knighthood... and I don’t think he will ever work again. There’s no feeling that he’s due a rehabilitation. He filmed-but-not-released work was either re-shot or abandoned. The star of The Usual Suspects, American Beauty and LA Confidential is over and out.
> 
> ...



I didn't want to get drawn back in because....

But with Kevin Spacey and Louis CK I just never really thought that they were role models as people except that they really did work for something that they loved and gave everything up to do it. They both seem to be self made and they were the weird kid who had a secret. I kind of assumed that that stuff was going on. I have never worked in showbiz but I have been around fashion people and what is allowed in that world is really disgusting. I like to think of myself as live and let live, but I think that there must be something ill about people who are prepared to get to the top level, it would not surprise me one bit if it turned out that Louis CK had let a bunch of men have sex with him to get his expensive TV show.
It's like with the Weinstein stuff, we were all meant to be surprised that a bigshot movie guy was kind of evil? The surprising ones are when they are nice people, unless you hear that they are great I just assume that they are scumbags.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 5, 2020)

xenon said:


> I think you need to grow up a bit. I mean you can laugh at his stuff, find things he has said funny, sure I have why not. but don’t defend him when he’s being a creepy scumbag. I mean it just makes you look like you’re on side with that. Have your own voice for God sake. what he did is fucked up, not normal that’s not just some banter or a joke. oh and that thing about the kids. That is arsehole behaviour. Siding with power. A bit cretinous.
> Anyway I quite like Bill Burr. Sure he won’t be everyone’s cup of tea but I can laugh at what I laugh at. If I think someone is being an arsehole I can say so too.



Well I stick up for him because the whole scandal seemed very tabloidy and it did not offend or shock me. I don't know if I am siding with power, he was part of a big media storm and like always they didn't change the system they just sacrificed a couple of people. Because I have been really into American comedy for a few years they all seem to be pretty damaged and difficult people, I just assume that they are up to weird sexual stuff when they are touring or partying, who would live in the circus?


----------



## xenon (Sep 5, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Rogan has billions of his podcasts watched (YouTube) or listened to (Podcasts) so it does nonetheless prove he has content and guests that people want to hear.


----------



## xenon (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Well I stick up for him because the whole scandal seemed very tabloidy and it did not offend or shock me. I don't know if I am siding with power, he was part of a big media storm and like always they didn't change the system they just sacrificed a couple of people. Because I have been really into American comedy for a few years they all seem to be pretty damaged and difficult people, I just assume that they are up to weird sexual stuff when they are touring or partying, who would live in the circus?



Wanking in front of two women you have trapped in your hotel room it’s not just weird sexual stuff. It is creepy, abusive behaviour. you are minimising it.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I have never worked in showbiz but I have been around fashion people and what is allowed in that world is really disgusting. I like to think of myself as live and let live, but I think that there must be something ill about people who are prepared to get to the top level, it would not surprise me one bit if it turned out that Louis CK had let a bunch of men have sex with him to get his expensive TV show.



So, you're forgiving for hetero predators but homosexual ones are disgusting and ill.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 5, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> So, you're forgiving for hetero predators but homosexual ones are disgusting and ill.



No I forgive Kevin Spacey as well. I was saying that I don't think him being creepy with teenage boys at parties drunk or Louis being creepy with adult women drunk is a surprise at all.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 5, 2020)

xenon said:


> Wanking in front of two women you have trapped in your hotel room it’s not just weird sexual stuff. It is creepy, abusive behaviour. you are minimising it.



nobody told me that!


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> nobody told me that!



Nobody's explained to you what's acceptable behaviour and what isn't?


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Sep 5, 2020)

None of this makes sense.

Its either non-sense or it's a wind up.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 5, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> Nobody's explained to you what's acceptable behaviour and what isn't?



It was a joke, the guy is a fucking weirdo, nobody ever denied that

He did not commit a crime but he is a pretty scummy person, also a brilliant artist. I like Picasso too

And Will Smith


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> It was a joke, the guy is a fucking weirdo, nobody ever denied that
> 
> He did not commit a crime but he is a pretty scummy person, also a brilliant artist. I like Picasso too
> 
> And Will Smith



I don't like you and I don't like your "jokes", either. Go to bed.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 5, 2020)

good lad


----------



## xenon (Sep 5, 2020)

Honestly I think half of your problem, here is you are looking for idols people to put on pedestals. You need to ditch that shit.Like


freakydave said:


> It was a joke, the guy is a fucking weirdo, nobody ever denied that
> 
> He did not commit a crime but he is a pretty scummy person, also a brilliant artist. I like Picasso too
> 
> And Will Smith



it pretty much is a crime. Try false imprisonment as well as probably some other sexual offence. At least in the UK.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> It was a joke, the guy is a fucking weirdo, nobody ever denied that
> 
> He did not commit a crime but he is a pretty scummy person, also a brilliant artist. I like Picasso too
> 
> And Will Smith


You keep saying he didn’t commit a crime but you know he did


----------



## freakydave (Sep 5, 2020)

This is not something that is interesting to discuss, we are arguing about rumours and tabloidy shit. It is interesting to talk about what people think of their work, disagreeing over the Louis CK rumours is just a waste of time and energy.


----------



## belboid (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> The accusations would be thrown out of court. What he did is not a crime.
> 
> You are just wrong on this,


utter bullshit, you have no clue what you're talking about and are simply trying to excuse an abuser for shallow and pathetic reasons. 

You're a bullshitter.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> This is not something that is interesting to discuss, we are arguing about rumours and tabloidy shit. It is interesting to talk about what people think of their work, disagreeing over the Louis CK rumours is just a waste of time and energy.


they're not rumours. he admitted his abuse.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 5, 2020)

freakydave said:


> This is not something that is interesting to discuss, we are arguing about rumours and tabloidy shit. It is interesting to talk about what people think of their work, disagreeing over the Louis CK rumours is just a waste of time and energy.



Putting people on pedestals is a waste of time. Invariably, you're going to be disappointed.

Why place so much faith in them?


----------



## paul mckenna (Sep 5, 2020)

Joe Rogan endorsed Bernie Sanders, the furthest left of all the Democrat nominees.


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 5, 2020)

paul mckenna said:


> Joe Rogan endorsed Bernie Sanders, the furthest left of all the Democrat nominees.


He can also nod along with Ben Shapiro as he demonises homeless people and denounces BLM protests.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 5, 2020)

paul mckenna said:


> Joe Rogan endorsed Bernie Sanders, the furthest left of all the Democrat nominees.


That may be true, but that doesn’t change the shit he spouts and the guests he has on who are dangerous loons


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 5, 2020)

paul mckenna said:


> Joe Rogan endorsed Bernie Sanders, the furthest left of all the Democrat nominees.


Why do you think that is of any relevance?

It's not about what his personal party political opinions are, that is very trivial; it is about how the work he produces functions in society.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 5, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> That may be true, but that doesn’t change the shit he spouts and the guests he has on who are dangerous loons



Well don’t watch it then.

Leave it to the billions of other people who tune in.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 5, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Well don’t watch it then.
> 
> Leave it to the billions of other people who tune in.


that's not what it's about you idiot


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 5, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Well don’t watch it then.
> 
> Leave it to the billions of other people who tune in.


We are having a discussion.  Don't read if it triggers you.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 5, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Well don’t watch it then.
> 
> Leave it to the billions of other people who tune in.


Thats precisely what we're already doing butty.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 5, 2020)

Honestly it is so pathetic when people can't cope with a word of criticism against their beloved joe joe, or Jordan Peterson.... surely "robust debate" would be right up their street but apparently not.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 5, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> Why do you think that is of any relevance?
> 
> It's not about what his personal party political opinions are, that is very trivial; it is about how the work he produces functions in society.



There seems to be assumptions about how people consume his podcast.  Anyone I know just listens to the guests they are interested in. I don't know anyone who has moved to the right from listening to Joe Rogan.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 5, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> There seems to be assumptions about how people consume his podcast.  Anyone I know just listens to the guests they are interested in. I don't know anyone who has moved to the right from listening to Joe Rogan.


fucksake, here's you speaking for "billions" of listeners


----------



## colacubes (Sep 5, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> There seems to be assumptions about how people consume his podcast.  Anyone I know just listens to the guests they are interested in. I don't know anyone who has moved to the right from listening to Joe Rogan.



Anecdata


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 5, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I don't know anyone who has moved to the right from listening to Joe Rogan.


How many people do you know who listen, how closely are you tracking their politics over the years (and how are you tracking that), then divide that by at least 2 billion (apparently he has billions of listeners) and that is how accurate your study is out of 10.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 5, 2020)

paul mckenna said:


> Joe Rogan endorsed Bernie Sanders, the furthest left of all the Democrat nominees.



So that makes Rogan a classical liberal?

Or an armchair anarchist?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 5, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> fucksake, here's you speaking for "billions" of listeners



No, just the friends/colleagues I know that listen. Not sure anyone has the time to listen to every JR podcast, so probably just listen to the guests they are interested in. I've only seen positive changes in people I know from listening to some of his guests.  Do you know anyone that's moved to the right from listening to JR?


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 5, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> No, just the friends/colleagues I know that listen. Not sure anyone has the time to listen to every JR podcast, so probably just listen to the guests they are interested in. I've only seen positive changes in people I know from listening to some of his guests.  Do you know anyone that's moved to the right from listening to JR?


I 100% know people who have moved very right WHILST listening to his stuff (and also other people in that podcast sphere). I obviously cant pin it directly on him as how would I know, but it is a frequent common denominator. Often people who used to be into raves and squat parties and hippy shit.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 5, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> So that makes Rogan a classical liberal?
> 
> Or an armchair anarchist?


They often come out with lame cowardly shit like this, rather than engaging directly.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 5, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> I 100% know people who have moved very right WHILST listening to his stuff (and also other people in that podcast sphere). I obviously cant pin it directly on him as how would I know, but it is a frequent common denominator. Often people who used to be into raves and squat parties and hippy shit.



People I know that listen to him have become more hippie-ish - his guests have opened friends' minds to psychedelics.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 5, 2020)

Being into drugs doesn't make you left wing


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 5, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Being into drugs doesn't make you left wing



Not all drugs are the same.  You should know that.  The more people open their minds to psychedelics and empathogens, the better IMO.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 5, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> People I know that listen to him have become more hippie-ish - his guests have opened friends' minds to psychedelics.


Exactly


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 5, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not all drugs are the same.  You should know that.  The more people open their minds to psychedelics and empathogens, the better IMO.


that may be true, but that doesn't change the fact it can also make some people more credulous and more inclined to believe batshit nonsense


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 5, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> that may be true, but that doesn't change the fact it can also make some people more credulous and more inclined to believe batshit nonsense



Well, it shouldn't.  It irks me when psychedelics are lumped in with crazy stuff, generally other health/wellbeing treatments or UFOs.  That's why I say I'm into psychedelic science.  JR has had various psychedelic science people on, like Michael Pollan and Rick Doblin.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 5, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Well, it shouldn't.  It irks me when psychedelics are lumped in with crazy stuff, generally other health/wellbeing treatments or UFOs.  That's why I say I'm into psychedelic science.  JR has had various psychedelic science people on, like Michael Pollan and Rick Doblin.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 5, 2020)

Whatever, mate.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Sep 6, 2020)

Norm McDonald is a good example of a funny right wing comic. I love his stories.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> They often come out with lame cowardly shit like this, rather than engaging directly.



Of course they did.

You’re full of it and come across as a conspiracy loon tbh.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Of course they did.
> 
> You’re full of it and come across as a conspiracy loon tbh.



Says the David Icke fan


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Of course they did.
> 
> You’re full of it and come across as a conspiracy loon tbh.


No you are. 
I bet you wank off to fox news.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Of course they did.
> 
> You’re full of it and come across as a conspiracy loon tbh.


 Doesn't take much for the mask to drop, does it?


----------



## maomao (Sep 6, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> Norm McDonald is a good example of a funny right wing comic. I love his stories.


I can't find any evidence that he's a right-wing comedian at all. He made a couple of comments in support of CK and Roseanne Barr which is probably why the OP has a boner for him but his actual comedy seems to be deliberately non political. He's certainly not an out and out Trump fan or anything.

I can't work out the fourth guy from the title at all and I don't really have time to. Nick Mullen is described as part of the 'dirtbag' left but I just listened to some of Cumtown and it was really really unpleasantly nasty. Maybe I heard the wrong five minutes but it was also really annoying (laughing at their own jokes) so I probably won't bother with any more.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Clair De Lune said:


> No you are.
> I bet you wank off to fox news.



Only if Joe Rogan is on it


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 6, 2020)

Too many American comedians grew up listening to Andrew Dice Clay and not Andy Kaufman, that's the trouble


----------



## BlanketAddict (Sep 6, 2020)

I like the Rogan podcasts. He has a huge variety of guests, and so the content varies accordingly. 
He calls out bullshit when he sees it, likes to get wasted with his friends sometimes, he has his own opinions which he's not afraid to express if they differ from the guest. 
I like it.


----------



## BlanketAddict (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> That may be true, but that doesn’t change the shit he spouts and the guests he has on who are dangerous loons



Massive sweeping generalization.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

BlanketAddict said:


> Massive sweeping generalization.



Yup and I’m sure the cancel culture mob would like to stick their venomous fangs into him.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Yup and I’m sure the cancel culture mob would like to stick their venomous fangs into him.


"Cancel culture mob" 

You'll be fulminating against the "PC Brigade" next!


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Yup and I’m sure the cancel culture mob would like to stick their venomous fangs into him.



What does this mean?


----------



## maomao (Sep 6, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> What does this mean?


It means that people who want to hold public figures to account for their behaviour and the effects of their work are violently non-human ('fangs') and acting without individual thought ('mob'). Which coming from a braindead conspiraloon shitcunt like Marty1 is a fucking joke. This is where allowing him into debates has got us.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> What does this mean?



lol.

Anyway, for your delectation:









						Where Did Cancel Culture Come From?
					

Cancel culture is the popular practice of withdrawing support for (canceling) public figures or companies after doing something offensive or deemed so.




					www.dictionary.com


----------



## freakydave (Sep 6, 2020)

maomao said:


> I can't find any evidence that he's a right-wing comedian at all. He made a couple of comments in support of CK and Roseanne Barr which is probably why the OP has a boner for him but his actual comedy seems to be deliberately non political. He's certainly not an out and out Trump fan or anything.
> 
> I can't work out the fourth guy from the title at all and I don't really have time to. Nick Mullen is described as part of the 'dirtbag' left but I just listened to some of Cumtown and it was really really unpleasantly nasty. Maybe I heard the wrong five minutes but it was also really annoying (laughing at their own jokes) so I probably won't bother with any more.



This actually gets at what I thought would be the interesting part of the discussion. None of these people would describe themselves as 'right wing' but then because they make jokes about certain subjects and are politically inconsistent people a re very keen to call them right wing and refuse to even engage with what they are doing. Louis CK was kind of a darling to the Liberals (American definition) before the scandal, he always went to dark places, but for a reason. Joe Rogan has one of the top podcasts in the world and it's incredibly influential, but a lot of the discussion on here has been people refusing to engage with why they think that he engages with so many people, often because of misconceptions that they have about the show. 
With Joe Rogan I find his show annoying often because of the complaints that people have said about him on here, he is a libertarian and he does go off about this stuff like the 'Cancel culture' and so on. He is a very rich entertainer who lives in LA though, so of course he is going to care more about that than a normal person would. And he definitely has had way too many of those 'alt-right' people on. I think that is interesting in itself because you can see exactly why he would fall for that, he's not interested in politics as a topic in itself, and these guys all have a schtick of being logical and pro free speech etc. I do find that maybe the most interesting because there was a time a few years ago where I just stopped even seeing who was on his show because it was just those guys all of the time. 
I think what interests me about the alt-right thing in general is why that works. It seems with young people none of them believe the Fukuyama sort of idea that was a big part of how we were told to view the world, but there seems to be more people gravitating towards that than anything else. I don't think that Rogan is a part of that, one thing I've noticed as someone who has paid attention to him is that he has changed his views quite a few times. He seems to have gotten sick of those guys, they are on a lot less, to be glass half full he could have been sucked in by their schtick and as with most people, after a point just realised that they are full of shit. I remember people like that from school and university and they do seem interesting at first, but they have no depth to them

I probably shouldn't have put Norm in with them, he has caught some controversy. I think the reason that I 'have a boner' for him is that he is undeniable. His book is amazing, his stand up is brilliant and his talk show appearances and public speaking are just so bizarre and hilarious, he's got a touch of the Andy Kaufman in that you are never sure if you are in on the joke or even if he is, because there is so much 'meta' going on, but not in a smartarse way, it's just hilarious.


----------



## pesh (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Yup and I’m sure the cancel culture mob would like to stick their venomous fangs into him.


would you consider yourself to be a member of the venomous fanged cancel culture mob Marty1?


----------



## existentialist (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> lol.
> 
> Anyway, for your delectation:
> 
> ...


As ever, you can't provide anything original, Mister Linkbot 

Mind you, given what you come up with when you do try to write anything, perhaps we should be grateful.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

BlanketAddict said:


> Massive sweeping generalization.


He does give a platform to conspiraloons


----------



## freakydave (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> He does give a platform to conspiraloons



I think that he has helped expose some of these people for what they really are by letting them go on and talk their rubbish without shouting them down or being confrontational. That Milo guy was a good example because a big part of his rise to fame was that he was being banned from everywhere just for saying offensive stuff, and the thing that triggered his downfall was that when people did just let him say what he wanted some of it was just genuinely disturbing. These guys absolutely love the narrative that they are saying stuff that is true but most people can't handle etc


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 6, 2020)

freakydave said:


> This actually gets at what I thought would be the interesting part of the discussion. None of these people would describe themselves as 'right wing' but then because they make jokes about certain subjects and are politically inconsistent people a re very keen to call them right wing and refuse to even engage with what they are doing. Louis CK was kind of a darling to the Liberals (American definition) before the scandal, he always went to dark places, but for a reason. Joe Rogan has one of the top podcasts in the world and it's incredibly influential, but a lot of the discussion on here has been people refusing to engage with why they think that he engages with so many people, often because of misconceptions that they have about the show.
> With Joe Rogan I find his show annoying often because of the complaints that people have said about him on here, he is a libertarian and he does go off about this stuff like the 'Cancel culture' and so on. He is a very rich entertainer who lives in LA though, so of course he is going to care more about that than a normal person would. And he definitely has had way too many of those 'alt-right' people on. I think that is interesting in itself because you can see exactly why he would fall for that, he's not interested in politics as a topic in itself, and these guys all have a schtick of being logical and pro free speech etc. I do find that maybe the most interesting because there was a time a few years ago where I just stopped even seeing who was on his show because it was just those guys all of the time.
> I think what interests me about the alt-right thing in general is why that works. It seems with young people none of them believe the Fukuyama sort of idea that was a big part of how we were told to view the world, but there seems to be more people gravitating towards that than anything else. I don't think that Rogan is a part of that, one thing I've noticed as someone who has paid attention to him is that he has changed his views quite a few times. He seems to have gotten sick of those guys, they are on a lot less, to be glass half full he could have been sucked in by their schtick and as with most people, after a point just realised that they are full of shit. I remember people like that from school and university and they do seem interesting at first, but they have no depth to them
> 
> I probably shouldn't have put Norm in with them, he has caught some controversy. I think the reason that I 'have a boner' for him is that he is undeniable. His book is amazing, his stand up is brilliant and his talk show appearances and public speaking are just so bizarre and hilarious, he's got a touch of the Andy Kaufman in that you are never sure if you are in on the joke or even if he is, because there is so much 'meta' going on, but not in a smartarse way, it's just hilarious.


That's fair imo.

It is def a fact that all of them, NM included, attract a high proportion of alt right/red pill etc fans though. Even Doug Stanhope does, but what he did was come out and say "you people are totally misunderstanding me and I dont want you as fans" whereas some of the others are silent and happy to take their money.


----------



## BlanketAddict (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> He does give a platform to conspiraloons



But by no means a platform _exclusively_ for those sorts wouldn't you agree?
As said previously, his guests cover a wide spectrum from all walks of life and with all sorts of opinions about all sorts of things. 
I don't see the issue, I can agree or disagree with what they say. But mostly I'm just entertained, he strikes me as a likeable and reasonable chap and I enjoy the show.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

BlanketAddict said:


> But by not means a platform _exclusively_ for those sorts wouldn't you agree?
> As said previously, his guests cover a wide spectrum from all walks of life and with all sorts of opinions about all sorts of things.
> I don't see the issue, I can agree or disagree with what they say. But mostly I'm just entertained, he strikes me as a likeable and reasonable chap and I enjoy the show.


Despite him laughing at sexual assault


----------



## BlanketAddict (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Despite him laughing at sexual assault



I think he's laughed at all sorts, he's an adult comedian. 
I don't see the problem with him, I've watched enough episodes to see he's not some monster who genuinely thinks sexual assault is some laughing matter if that's what you're getting at?
I've also seen enough episodes to know he's laughed/come out with some crazy shit - see any Joey Diaz episode as an example. Also an adult comedian.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Joe ‘masks are for bitches’ Rogan, who has views such as this:

Nice guy.
A man who has made many a transphobic and racist comment. 
But he’s a nice guy


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Joe ‘masks are for bitches’ Rogan, who has views such as this:
> 
> Nice guy.
> A man who has made many a transphobic and racist comment.
> But he’s a nice guy




Jack Dorsey (Twitter founder) loves Joe Rogan and has been on his podcast numerous times and JD is part of the ‘wokearati’.

Pls remember JR is also a comedian so try not to take things to heart.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> lol.
> 
> Anyway, for your delectation:
> 
> ...



A boycott. Do boycotts upset you that much?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Jack Dorsey (Twitter founder) loves Joe Rogan and has been on his podcast numerous times and JD is part of the ‘wokearati’.
> 
> Pls remember JR is also a comedian so try not to take things to heart.


What’s that got to do with the things he has said and the racists and conspiraloons he’s given a platform to?


----------



## Poot (Sep 6, 2020)

There aren't many women on this thread, are there? I wonder whether that's because they have looked, shrugged, and thought, 'what's the point in trying to explain?' and walked away. I know I did.


----------



## maomao (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> What’s that got to do with the things he has said and the racists and conspiraloons he’s given a platform to?


He genuinely thinks that Dorsey is some kind of lefty or something. CEO of Twitter lol.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Jack Dorsey (Twitter founder) loves Joe Rogan and has been on his podcast numerous times and JD is part of the ‘wokearati’.
> 
> Pls remember JR is also a comedian so try not to take things to heart.



Explain wokearati.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> What’s that got to do with the things he has said and the racists and conspiraloons he’s given a platform to?



Surely the market will rectify such?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Surely the market will rectify such?


No, bigotry is big business


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> No, bigotry is big business



So is the market place of free ideas.

Which is where JR seems to be in.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 6, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> That's fair imo.
> 
> It is def a fact that all of them, NM included, attract a high proportion of alt right/red pill etc fans though. Even Doug Stanhope does, but what he did was come out and say "you people are totally misunderstanding me and I dont want you as fans" whereas some of the others are silent and happy to take their money.


Which reminds me of the amusing story that Al Murray tells about his "pub landlord" comedy persona. Apparently, quite often, people take the whole schtick at face value, and think he really is the boorish political lumpenprole he paints himself as on stage. He describes how quite a large group of obviously RW types were in one night, and it slowly dawned on them through the show that he wasn't espousing their philosophy, but taking the piss out of it. They didn't stay to the end.

I find him quite edgy to watch, because the lampooning is pretty near-the-knuckle (eg the crowdwork where every woman is assumed to be a secretary or a housewife), but he makes good points, without appearing to pander to the ideologies he's sending up.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2020)

I can't get past the fact he's an aristo though.


existentialist said:


> Al Murray tells about his "pub landlord" comedy persona.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 6, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> I can't get past the fact he's an aristo though.


He can't really help that . At least he went and got a proper job (comedian )


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> So is the market place of free ideas.
> 
> Which is where JR seems to be in.


He remains a deeply unpleasant racist, homophobe and transphobe.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 6, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> I can't get past the fact he's an aristo though.


I never found it funny but I used to watch it when Emma Pierson was in it


----------



## freakydave (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> He remains a deeply unpleasant racist, homophobe and transphobe.



What are you basing that on?


----------



## JimW (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> the market place of free ideas


It's a constant source of amazement to me that folk such as yourself can believe all sorts of convoluted nonsense where there's actually a simple explanation and at the same time trot out naive canards like this.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

freakydave said:


> What are you basing that on?


The things he has said on his podcast


----------



## Santino (Sep 6, 2020)

Does anyone think that somewhere someone has got a pet project to mire Urban in tedious right-wing talking points?


----------



## two sheds (Sep 6, 2020)

marketplace is the solution to everything: housing, poverty, climate change, sexism, homophobia ...almost Godlike properties


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Surely the market will rectify such?


because bigots don't have money?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

freakydave said:


> What are you basing that on?



One or two things taken out of context.  JR isn't a fan of transwomen taking part in female sports and has explained his reasons - for this he has been called a transphobe.    Remember Joe has had Eddie Izzard and Chuck Palahniuk on his show.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 6, 2020)

That's it, thread on ignore, waste of everyone's fucking time


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> One or two things taken out of context.  JR isn't a fan of transwomen taking part in female sports and has explained his reasons - for this he has been called a transphobe.    Remember Joe has had Eddie Izzard and Chuck Palahniuk on his show.


He's shouted at a transwoman on his show, saying 'you're a fucking man', he's consistently used the n-word and 'fag', he's likened a black-majority neighbourhood to 'Planet Of The Apes', he's criticised BLM, he's laughed at another comedian bragging about co-ercing women into oral sex to get stage time. He's a toxic macho bigot and a crashing drugs bore.
Yet you give him a pass cos he talks about DMT


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> He's shouted at a transwoman on his show, saying 'you're a fucking man', he's consistently used the n-word and 'fag', he's likened a black-majority neighbourhood to 'Planet Of The Apes', he's criticised BLM, he's laughed at another comedian bragging about co-ercing women into oral sex to get stage time. He's a toxic macho bigot and a crashing drugs bore.
> Yet you give him a pass cos he talks about DMT



He is down as saying a few dodgy things (though many of these things a long time ago).  Remember, as others have said, he's a comedian.  Part of his schtick (along with other comedians he hangs around with, including female comedians) is pushing it a bit.  I listen to some of his shows and get no sense that he hates gay, trans or black people or is sexist.  There's stuff he's said (or ways he's put things) that I definitely don't agree with, but that's allowed...  Loads of people I like or admire have sat down with him.  The idea I like his show just because he talks about drugs is ridiculous.  Anyway, you've clearly got the idea he's some monster infecting listeners with right-wing ideas.  There's probably not much pointing in debating this further.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

"He's not a bigot, he just says bigotted things for laughs"


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Repulsive Joe Rogan Facing Criticism For Laughing About Sexual Assault - Jim Heath TV
					

Joe Rogan is facing backlash after a resurfaced video showed his laughing as fellow comedian Joey ‘Coco’ Diaz spoke about coercing women into performing oral sex to get stage time. The disturbing footage was shared to Twitter as part of a larger thread on sexual harassment in the Los Angeles...




					jimheath.tv
				



but that's ok cos he's a comedian!


----------



## discokermit (Sep 6, 2020)

al murray is worse in real life than his stage persona. an aristo looking down on the lower middle class.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Repulsive Joe Rogan Facing Criticism For Laughing About Sexual Assault - Jim Heath TV
> 
> 
> Joe Rogan is facing backlash after a resurfaced video showed his laughing as fellow comedian Joey ‘Coco’ Diaz spoke about coercing women into performing oral sex to get stage time. The disturbing footage was shared to Twitter as part of a larger thread on sexual harassment in the Los Angeles...
> ...



It will be interesting to hear what he has to say.  I have no idea what the reality of that comedy scenes is, but bear in mind Joe has female comedian friends.  Bottom line is I don't really listen to Joe Rogan for Joe Rogan - I listen because he has an interesting guest on and they might get to talk for 2 - 3 hours.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> "He's not a bigot, he just says bigotted things for laughs"



Tbh, I have watched the clip with JR and that big bloke who was retelling his story of exploiting a young woman into oral sex - and I physically recoiled in disgust.

I only saw the short clip via a Twitter link but it was horrific.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> It will be interesting to hear what he has to say.  I have no idea what the reality of that comedy scenes is, but bear in mind Joe has female comedian friends.  Bottom line is I don't really listen to Joe Rogan for Joe Rogan - I listen because he has an interesting guest on and they might get to talk for 2 - 3 hours.


'he must be ok, he has female friends'


----------



## Numbers (Sep 6, 2020)

I have thoroughly enjoyed some of the JR interviews/podcasts, especially the Brian Cox ones + plenty of others, even the Russell Brand ones.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

Numbers said:


> I have thoroughly enjoyed some of the JR interviews/podcasts, especially the Brian Cox ones + plenty of others, even the Russell Brand ones.



I liked the Russell Brand one.  Previously I'd always been turned off by him/thought he was a dick.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 6, 2020)

The point isn't that 100% of his content is objectionable; or even 20% or 10%. The point is that a small fraction of it is, but because he has such a massive audience (and a huge quantity of content) this might have a disproportionate influence on society. The ideas are getting smuggled in, disguised by a load of benign material. It is insidious. And he is making tons of money out of it so doesn't care.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 6, 2020)

It was somewhat similar with Jordan Peterson. The majority of his stuff is fairly benign and hackneyed self-help material, so a load of young men started almost worshipping him (I guess because they hadnt heard this stuff done better a billion times before), but there was a consistent undercurrent of dodgy culture war material running simultaneously that you could not avoid if you consumed his content.

And again he made a ton of money out of it which was probably his main personal goal. Of course he was a fairly short-lived fad thank goodness.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I think that he has helped expose some of these people for what they really are by letting them go on and talk their rubbish without shouting them down or being confrontational. That Milo guy was a good example because a big part of his rise to fame was that he was being banned from everywhere just for saying offensive stuff, and the thing that triggered his downfall was that when people did just let him say what he wanted some of it was just genuinely disturbing. These guys absolutely love the narrative that they are saying stuff that is true but most people can't handle etc


This is absolutely, 100%, completely not the case. What produced Milo was that he was everywhere and every outlet promoted his every word. What stopped Milo was when people stopped paying attention and just didn't publish what he said.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 6, 2020)

Hmm isn't that the nature of interviewers though? To have a diverse range of guests and to find out more about their take on the world I mean. We can't no platform everyone we disagree with and if someone becomes more right leaning after watching his show then they are pretty easily led and some Gary down the pub could have just as easily led them astray.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> The point isn't that 100% of his content is objectionable; or even 20% or 10%. The point is that a small fraction of it is, but because he has such a massive audience (and a huge quantity of content) this might have a disproportionate influence on society. The ideas are getting smuggled in, disguised by a load of benign material. It is insidious. And he is making tons of money out of it so doesn't care.



A small amount of most things could be objectionable.  In my friend circle, I've yet to see anyone been warped by Joe Rogan.  Well, my veggie friend says he wants to go to the U.S. and hunt elk, but I'll be amazed if that actually happens...    I find it more worrying that some folk set out looking for the worst to discredit people -trawling through hours of material to find 10 minutes from years ago that supposedly proves someone is a total monster.  Can things only be broadcast if the material is 100% squeaky clean - and who decides what material is objectionable or what opinions are allowed to be heard?  Yeah, some of his guests (and Joe himself) have voiced opinions that I really don't agree with.  Some right-wing guests I've given a chance but have then had to switch off.  But I'd rather make that decision of my own accord than have it made for me - either via official censorship or Joe being cancelled/de-platformed.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 6, 2020)

Is he being deplatformed then? I thought he just signed a 100 million dollar deal for distribution.


----------



## Reno (Sep 6, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> Is he being deplatformed then? I thought he just signed a 100 million dollar deal for distribution.


I took that as the suggestion for Joe Rogan to deplatform right wing guests


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 6, 2020)

Reno said:


> I took that as the suggestion for Joe Rogan to deplatform right wing guests


You misread it.

Edit: I was replying to jv's post sorry


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 6, 2020)

Clair De Lune said:


> Hmm isn't that the nature of interviewers though? To have a diverse range of guests and to find out more about their take on the world I mean. We can't no platform everyone we disagree with and if someone becomes more right leaning after watching his show then they are pretty easily led and some Gary down the pub could have just as easily led them astray.


They are not straight interviews, they are a lads club hang out.

The whole schtick is to make the listener feel like part of a club of mates. Anyone who appears becomes part of that club.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

It's very hard to sit through a 3 hour Joe Rogan podcast - he's very dull indeed, the toxic shit he and his guests broadcast aside. He just comes off as a despicable human being who like fighting and drugs.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2020)

Let's be fair, podcasts are dull. All of them.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> Is he being deplatformed then? I thought he just signed a 100 million dollar deal for distribution.



No, he's not and has little chance of being, but I'm sure some people would like to see it happen.  I'm not against a certain amount of de-platforming in extreme circumstances - I never wept when Tommy Robinson was kicked off various social media platforms, but I think TR really does encourage violence against minorities.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Let's be fair, podcasts are dull. All of them.


disagree strongly - they keep me sane. listen to a lot of them.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> disagree strongly - they keep me sane. listen to a lot of them.


That does not mean that they are not dull. Sometimes dull things can be rewarding.


----------



## maomao (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> A small amount of most things could be objectionable.  In my friend circle, I've yet to see anyone been warped by Joe Rogan.  Well, my veggie friend says he wants to go to the U.S. and hunt elk, but I'll be amazed if that actually happens...    I find it more worrying that some folk set out looking for the worst to discredit people -trawling through hours of material to find 10 minutes from years ago that supposedly proves someone is a total monster.  Can things only be broadcast if the material is 100% squeaky clean - and who decides what material is objectionable or what opinions are allowed to be heard?  Yeah, some of his guests (and Joe himself) have voiced opinions that I really don't agree with.  Some right-wing guests I've given a chance but have then had to switch off.  But I'd rather make that decision of my own accord than have it made for me - either via official censorship or Joe being cancelled/de-platformed.


No-one's suggested banning him though. And no-one here has that power. We've been asked for our opinions and we've said he's boring, says dodgy things and regularly gives a platform to really really dodgy people. Actual fascists like Gavin MacKenzie. You're the one that's objecting to other people's opinions.


----------



## JimW (Sep 6, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Let's be fair, podcasts are dull. All of them.


Occasionally listen to Doug Henwood's Left Business Observer, load of voices you (well, I at least) don't hear anywhere else. But definitely not my favourite format.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> It's very hard to sit through a 3 hour Joe Rogan podcast - he's very dull indeed, the toxic shit he and his guests broadcast aside. He just comes off as a despicable human being who like fighting and drugs.



Not true.  The recent Oliver Stone one was excellent, but mainly because OS has U.S. politics nailed.  Michael Pollan, Paul Stamets, a climate change journalist (which many on the right would hate, can't remember his name off the top off my head), Tulsi Gabbard, Russell Brand, Eddie Izzard...  Those are just a few that I've enjoyed right to the end.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> No, he's not and has little chance of being, but I'm sure some people would like to see it happen.  I'm not against a certain amount of de-platforming in extreme circumstances - I never wept when Tommy Robinson was kicked off various social media platforms, but I think TR really does encourage violence against minorities.


Ok, well if it's not going to happen and I never suggested it happening then it's not really relevant!

I'm just trying to ruin his podcasts for you ha


----------



## maomao (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> No, he's not and has little chance of being, but I'm sure some people would like to see it happen.  I'm not against a certain amount of de-platforming in extreme circumstances - I never wept when Tommy Robinson was kicked off various social media platforms, but I think TR really does encourage violence against minorities.


Gavin MacKenzie is a fascist who openly advocates violence and he's had him on twice. And you're upset people who have no power over him think he's boring and dangerous.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

maomao said:


> Gavin MacKenzie is a fascist who openly advocates violence and he's had him on twice. And you're upset people who have no power over him think he's boring and dangerous.



I can't know the precise background of everyone he's had on.  Never heard of GM and I have no idea what opinions were expressed during those particular episodes.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That does not mean that they are not dull. Sometimes dull things can be rewarding.


how are they are dull if they're on something you're interested in? they're just radio programmes that you can choose when to listen to. they cover a vast range of subjects.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not true.  The recent Oliver Stone one was excellent, but mainly because OS has U.S. politics nailed.  Michael Pollan, Paul Stamets, a climate change journalist (which many on the right would hate, can't remember his name off the top off my head), Tulsi Gabbard, Russell Brand, Eddie Izzard...  Those are just a few that I've enjoyed right to the end.


Rogan himself is dull


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I can't know the precise background of everyone he's had on.  Never heard of GM and I have no idea what opinions were expressed during those particular episodes.


that's alright then


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> how are they are dull if they're on something you're interested in? they're just radio programmes that you can choose when to listen to. they cover a vast range of subjects.


The vast majority of radio programmes were always super dull even before they were offered up as podcasts. Did you never listen to Radio 4?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Rogan himself is dull



I wouldn't go as far as say he's dull, but I would never listen to a show of just him talking.  It is all about the guest - and where else are you going to hear the people I mentioned talking for up to 3 hours?


----------



## maomao (Sep 6, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The vast majority of radio programmes were always super dull even before they were offered up as podcasts. Did you never listen to Radio 4?


And that's a professional outfit. Imagine how boring radio would be if there were fourteen million radio stations and no quality control. Cause that's what podcasts are.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The vast majority of radio programmes were always super dull even before they were offered up as podcasts. Did you never listen to Radio 4?


Nope, but do listen to a couple of their shows on podcast apps. It's just another medium like telly or film or literature - 99% of it is shite


----------



## freakydave (Sep 6, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> This is absolutely, 100%, completely not the case. What produced Milo was that he was everywhere and every outlet promoted his every word. What stopped Milo was when people stopped paying attention and just didn't publish what he said.



I first heard of him because there were some protests against him doing a speaking tour and I think that he was abandoned by who was promoting because he said some very weird stuff about paedophilia. 
I do know that he was famous on social media quite a while before I knew about him.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I first heard of him because there were some protests against him doing a speaking tour and I think that he was abandoned by who was promoting because he said some very weird stuff about paedophilia.
> I do know that he was famous on social media quite a while before I knew about him.


So, okay, no offence, you know basically nothing about him or his influence or position or history. I mean that's fine, but just so you know, your initial take was completely wrong.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 6, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> So, okay, no offence, you know basically nothing about him or his influence or position or history. I mean that's fine, but just so you know, your initial take was completely wrong.



Nah that's true, I just can't get interested in Twitter world. I was more using him as an example of the 'sunlight is a good disinfectant' idea


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 6, 2020)

freakydave said:


> Nah that's true, I just can't get interested in Twitter world. I was more using him as an example of the 'sunlight is a good disinfectant' idea


And that was what I was saying was completely the wrong way round. Lack of sunlight was the best disinfectant.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

maomao said:


> And that's a professional outfit. Imagine how boring radio would be if there were fourteen million radio stations and no quality control. Cause that's what podcasts are.



I'm sure there is loads of material out there which is better than supposedly professional outfits.  I'm not sure everything benefits from being filtered through the BBC (much as I'll defend the BBC at times).


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not true.  The recent Oliver Stone one was excellent, but mainly because OS has U.S. politics nailed.  Michael Pollan, Paul Stamets, a climate change journalist (which many on the right would hate, can't remember his name off the top off my head), Tulsi Gabbard, Russell Brand, Eddie Izzard...  Those are just a few that I've enjoyed right to the end.



Elon Musk podcast was good.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 6, 2020)

maomao said:


> And that's a professional outfit. Imagine how boring radio would be if there were fourteen million radio stations and no quality control. Cause that's what podcasts are.



There is an advantage to this as well. 
Whatever you think of the Joe Rogan show, having famous people do 2 or 3 hour long unstructured interviews is something that could not exist on BBC or corporate radio


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Do we ever need to hear 3 hours worth of opinions from some dickhead who thinks Sandy Hook was a hoax or that DMT connects you to alien intelligence?


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Do we ever need to hear 3 hours worth of opinions from some dickhead who thinks Sandy Hook was a hoax or that DMT connects you to alien intelligence?



So you've watched some JR podcasts?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> So you've watched some JR podcasts?


i've listened to a few. never watched them cos why bother, it's an audio medium


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> i've listened to a few. never watched them cos why bother, it's an audio medium



Which ones?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> why bother, it's an audio medium



So as you can look at Joe's muscles.  😂


----------



## freakydave (Sep 6, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Do we ever need to hear 3 hours worth of opinions from some dickhead who thinks Sandy Hook was a hoax or that DMT connects you to alien intelligence?



There are all kinds of different podcasts.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I'm sure there is loads of material out there which is better than supposedly professional outfits.  I'm not sure everything benefits from being filtered through the BBC (much as I'll defend the BBC at times).


I agree with this 1000%. But with DIY comes responsibility, that is the hard work that gets missed very often.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Which ones?


the Elon Musk one was the last one I sampled, but can't remember the others as I subscribed to his podcast a few years ago after hearing Scroobius Pip talking about him - soon unsubscribed as he was a crashing unfunny macho bore


----------



## maomao (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I can't know the precise background of everyone he's had on.  Never heard of GM and I have no idea what opinions were expressed during those particular episodes.


Gavin MacInnes not MacKenzie. My apologies to Canadian lawyer Gavin MacKenzie. This is MacInnes leader of the proud boys:



I think one of the cunts behind him is Marty1. Exactly the sort of bloke who needs not one but two hour long platforms on one of the most popular shows around.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

maomao said:


> Gavin MacInnes not MacKenzie. My apologies to Canadian lawyer Gavin MacKenzie. This is MacInnes leader of the proud boys:
> 
> View attachment 229436
> 
> I think one of the cunts behind him is Marty1. Exactly the sort of bloke who needs not one but two hour long platforms on one of the most popular shows around.



Okay, I've vaguely heard of the proud boys.  Having a quick sample now...


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 6, 2020)

maomao said:


> Gavin MacInnes not MacKenzie. My apologies to Canadian lawyer Gavin MacKenzie. This is MacInnes leader of the proud boys:
> 
> View attachment 229436
> 
> I think one of the cunts behind him is Marty1. Exactly the sort of bloke who needs not one but two hour long platforms on one of the most popular shows around.


He's hiding in the background - here's a close up:


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Okay, I've vaguely heard of the proud boys.  Having a quick sample now...



Definitely comes across as a bit of a twat and that's just from some random snippets.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 6, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> They are not straight interviews, they are a lads club hang out.
> 
> The whole schtick is to make the listener feel like part of a club of mates. Anyone who appears becomes part of that club.


Fair enough...I only watched about 10 minutes of one while I ran a bath. I'm kinda intrigued now though so perhaps this convo is counterproductive


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 6, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> They are not straight interviews, they are a lads club hang out.
> 
> The whole schtick is to make the listener feel like part of a club of mates. Anyone who appears becomes part of that club.



There are a few repeat guests (and "hang out" type episodes) but it doesn't characterise his podcast overall.  There are plenty of people who appear that aren't "lads", or "bros" in American terms, and even some women!  Was just reminded after watching Louis Theroux on the box tonight that he's been on a couple of times.  There's also a recent one with Miley Cyrus.


----------



## freakydave (Sep 7, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> I agree with this 1000%. But with DIY comes responsibility, that is the hard work that gets missed very often.



This is something that this conversation hasn't really gone into much. The Joe Rogan podcast is a crazy phenomenon, it seems to have almost turned into a cult. 

I think that this thread has been a bit of a car crash and I'm to blame for a lot of it by setting it up in a clumsy way and arguing very badly on very sensitive topics, but I do think that even taking the position that he is bigoted and boring, there is still a fascinating topic as to how and why he has become so influential, and also what will happen. I get the impression that he doesn't get it either, I know that he is so rich and famous that his 'regular guy' thing is a bit of a put on, but his show does seem to me to be a thing that has never happened before and not in some fake way. When I first heard it, except comedians he was talking to people who were studying stuff like aliens and pyramids


----------



## freakydave (Sep 7, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> And that was what I was saying was completely the wrong way round. Lack of sunlight was the best disinfectant.



Ok, I am coming from a place of ignorance, but wasn't he a big deal because of Breitbart and Twitter and had managed to get a huge following before he was mainstream?

I know that there is a lot of shadiness with the way that these people are promoted by these organisations to espouse certain ideas and agendas, but he did seem to be a person who gained a following and then getting on these mainstream things like Bill Maher and Joe Rogan was what did for him


----------



## maomao (Sep 7, 2020)

So conclusions on the names in the title.

1) Louis CK - sex case
2) Joe Rogan - boring, history of racist and homophobic language, regularly gives platforms to the absolute worst kind of people
3) Norm MacDonald - Jobbing comedian, very funny, stuck up for CK and Roseanne Barr but has kept his mouth shut since.
4) Nick Mullen - Who the fuck is Nick Mullen? Surely it's his turn now.


----------



## xenon (Sep 7, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> It's very hard to sit through a 3 hour Joe Rogan podcast - he's very dull indeed, the toxic shit he and his guests broadcast aside. He just comes off as a despicable human being who like fighting and drugs.



I tried listening to one on Saturday. Opened with 7 full minutes of ads. Then he was waffling on, getting donkies and muels mixed up, with a comedian I've never heard of. Not so bad the last bit there are loads of course but not many lols in the bit I heard. And it was 2 hours long.

I might check out some of the more noteable ones.


----------



## Santino (Sep 7, 2020)

maomao said:


> 4) Nick Mullen - Who the fuck is Nick Mullen? Surely it's his turn now.


Does he present DIY SOS on BBC1?


----------



## maomao (Sep 7, 2020)

Santino said:


> Does he present DIY SOS on BBC1?


No.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 7, 2020)

xenon said:


> I tried listening to one on Saturday. Opened with 7 full minutes of ads. Then he was waffling on, getting donkies and muels mixed up, with a comedian I've never heard of. Not so bad the last bit there are loads of course but not many lols in the bit I heard. And it was 2 hours long.
> 
> I might check out some of the more noteable ones.



If you're interested in psychedelic science, try the Michael Pollan one. That came recommended to me by a friend, after I read MP's book on the subject.  MP is such a good speaker.


----------



## Santino (Sep 7, 2020)

maomao said:


> No.


Homes Under the Hammer?


----------



## maomao (Sep 7, 2020)

Santino said:


> Homes Under the Hammer?


No, to clarify, he _is_ the host of 'Cum Town'. I think it's on BBC2 at the same time as HUtH which would explain why we've never heard of him.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 7, 2020)

maomao said:


> No, to clarify, he _is_ the host of 'Cum Town'. I think it's on BBC2 at the same time as HUtH which would explain why we've never heard of him.



why did I just search for that?


----------



## Santino (Sep 7, 2020)

Has he ever been on _Who Do You Think You Are?_


----------



## Numbers (Sep 7, 2020)

xenon said:


> I tried listening to one on Saturday. Opened with 7 full minutes of ads. Then he was waffling on, getting donkies and muels mixed up, with a comedian I've never heard of. Not so bad the last bit there are loads of course but not many lols in the bit I heard. And it was 2 hours long.
> 
> I might check out some of the more noteable ones.


If you're into astronomy at all the Brian Cox one is brilliant.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Sep 7, 2020)

I think he lost bake off with a soggy soufflé


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 7, 2020)

There's also a JR Anthony Bourdain pod.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 7, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> There's also a JR Anthony Bourdain pod.


Still has Joe Rogan on it though


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Sep 7, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Still has Joe Rogan on it though



And just for you, there's an AB episode featuring Joe.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 18, 2020)

Prick


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 28, 2020)

Giving Jones a platform again.

Joe Rogan hosts Alex Jones on Spotify podcast despite ban


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 28, 2020)

I thought he wasn't allowed to do pods for a while because staff had tested + for covid?

You could say it's Spotify hosting Joe Rogan hosting Alex Jones, so if people object, they should boycott Spotify...


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 28, 2020)

In other news, he actually had Kanye West on.  😂 😂

4 minutes in and it's already pretty bizarre.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 28, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> I thought he wasn't allowed to do pods for a while because staff had tested + for covid?
> 
> You could say it's Spotify hosting Joe Rogan hosting Alex Jones, so if people object, they should boycott Spotify...


Or even Joe Rogan


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 28, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Or even Joe Rogan



Go the whole hog if you feel that strongly about it and give up your free music.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 28, 2020)

Spotify paid the cunt an absolute pissload of money to do his thing on their network, in the full knowledge of what his thing is.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 28, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Spotify paid the cunt an absolute pissload of money to do his thing on their network, in the full knowledge of what his thing is.



That is true, though they did delete a few previous episodes (including Alex Jones ones).  Did they stipulate who he could have on in future?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 28, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Go the whole hog if you feel that strongly about it and give up your free music.


i don't use Spotify


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 28, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> i don't use Spotify



Fair enough - lots of people do (including - hypocritically - me) and I think hosting Joe Rogan hosting Alex Jones is probably one of the least bad things they do.  Of more concern is how musicians are meant to scrape a living these days.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 30, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Fair enough - lots of people do (including - hypocritically - me) and I think hosting Joe Rogan hosting Alex Jones is probably one of the least bad things they do.  Of more concern is how musicians are meant to scrape a living these days.



Curiosity got the better of me and I went and listened to the Alex Jones one and it’s absolutely barking. Jones is practically bouncing off the walls, then he sets this other guy off and Rogan is trying to get everyone to calm the fuck down so he can press Jones on a particular point but Jones is lobbing red herrings about like a fishmonger on PCP...

He comes over as an affable conspiracy nut with some kind of brain disorder, though we all know the much nastier Alex Jones of the Sandy Hook business etc.

Jones doesn’t come over credible, which I think for some was the worry (“platforms”
and all that).  Not sure how I feel about whether people should interview him, but I think it’s more concerning that the context of the really horrible stuff isn’t there.  

This is somewhere between irresponsible journalism and freakshow.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Oct 30, 2020)

8ball said:


> Curiosity got the better of me and I went and listened to the Alex Jones one and it’s absolutely barking. Jones is practically bouncing off the walls, then he sets this other guy off and Rogan is trying to get everyone to calm the fuck down so he can press Jones on a particular point but Jones is lobbing red herrings about like a fishmonger on PCP...
> 
> He comes over as an affable conspiracy nut with some kind of brain disorder, though we all know the much nastier Alex Jones of the Sandy Hook business etc.
> 
> ...



I think he's been on with JR three times now.  Not sure which one you watched.  I watched about (from memory) 30 mins of the second one and the Sandy Hook stuff was discussed and he gave some explanation/excuse...  I don't know, it's not a story I've followed closely.  But my curiosity over who Alex Jones is was satisfied and it was obvious the rest was going to be him just getting more drunk, more stoned, more obnoxious.  Fine if you have time for such lunacy and aren't going to be corrupted by it; I had better things to do.

Sadly, to some people AJ is credible, but I'm sure they've a big problem long before coming to the particular podcast.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 14, 2021)

So Norm McDonald has died, yet Rogan is still breathing.


----------



## gosub (Sep 14, 2021)

RiP Norm.


----------



## killer b (Sep 14, 2021)

I don't know Norm Macdonald at all, but someone posted this sketch and it's funny as fuck


----------



## Dom Traynor (Sep 14, 2021)

Absolute master of shaggy dog stories.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 14, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> So Norm McDonald has died, yet Rogan is still breathing.



Not sure why you have to wish someone dead at the same time, but RIP Norm.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 14, 2021)

8ball said:


> Not sure why you have to wish someone dead at the same time, but RIP Norm.


It's Joe Rogan ffs


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 14, 2021)

8ball said:


> Not sure why you have to wish someone dead at the same time, but RIP Norm.


i did not do that, just pointed out the injustice. but since you brought it up, it's made me think further on it, and though I do not wish him dead, the world would certainly be a healthier place without him in it spouting dangerous mininformation to others and making the world a harder to place to live in.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 14, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> i did not do that, just pointed out the injustice. but since you brought it up, it's made me think further on it, and though I do not wish him dead, the world would certainly be a healthier place without him in it spouting dangerous mininformation to others and making the world a harder to place to live in.



Must say I hadn’t noticed him since he went on his pay channel thing.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Sep 14, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> So Norm McDonald has died, yet Rogan is still breathing.


R.I.P.

Unfortunately I have yet to see anything at all funny that he has said or done.


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## Johnny Vodka (Sep 14, 2021)

8ball said:


> Must say I hadn’t noticed him since he went on his pay channel thing.



spotify?


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## Orang Utan (Sep 14, 2021)

Johnny Vodka said:


> spotify?


it's a pay channel


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## Johnny Vodka (Sep 14, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> it's a pay channel



Not sure whether 8ball was referring to JR or NM.. Obviously, you can pay for Spotify to get rid of the ads.


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## 8ball (Sep 14, 2021)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not sure whether 8ball was referring to JR or NM.. Obviously, you can pay for Spotify to get rid of the ads.



Yeah, I meant Rogan.  I thought Spotify was pay only but haven't paid attention to it since the super-early days when it was totally free.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 14, 2021)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not sure whether 8ball was referring to JR or NM.. Obviously, you can pay for Spotify to get rid of the ads.


he was referring to Rogen going to Spotify, which you have to pay for. Cos of the ads.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 14, 2021)

8ball said:


> Yeah, I meant Rogan.  I thought Spotify was pay only but haven't paid attention to it since the super-early days when it was totally free.


you can listen for free, but it's almost completely intolerable cos of the ads. So it's not free, unless you like listening to ads


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## 8ball (Sep 14, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> you can listen for free, but it's almost completely intolerable cos of the ads. So it's not free, unless you like listening to ads



Think I’ll live without it.


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## Ax^ (Sep 14, 2021)

rogan can drop dead in the next few minutes and i'd think good fucking asshat

Norm will be slight more missed just to his body of work
which now that i looked it up appears to be mostly adam sandler movies

maybe not that big of a loss 

rip fella anyways


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## danny la rouge (Sep 14, 2021)

killer b said:


> I don't know Norm Macdonald at all, but someone posted this sketch and it's funny as fuck



I didn’t find that at all funny. I found the delivery very off-putting too.  This is the first I’ve heard of this guy, though, so maybe I’m missing context.  

It’s sad that he’s died though.  

I’m not familiar with any of the people on this thread, except Louis CK, but only because he was in Parks and Rec and then got famous for forcing people to watch him wank, fucking weirdo.  Not sure how I ended up on this thread really.


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## 8ball (Sep 14, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I didn’t find that at all funny. I found the delivery very off-putting too.  This is the first I’ve heard of this guy, though, so maybe I’m missing context.



Yeah, I wasn’t keen on that one either.  

This one is my favourite, you may not like it either but the whole bit gets me every time.


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## Ming (Sep 14, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I didn’t find that at all funny. I found the delivery very off-putting too.  This is the first I’ve heard of this guy, though, so maybe I’m missing context.
> 
> It’s sad that he’s died though.
> 
> I’m not familiar with any of the people on this thread, except Louis CK, but only because he was in Parks and Rec and then got famous for forcing people to watch him wank, fucking weirdo.  Not sure how I ended up on this thread really.


He’s at his best doing Burt Reynolds on the Jeopardy skit on SNL or Weekend Update on SNL.
This is him on Letterman after he got fired for not being funny. I really rate him.


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## Ming (Sep 14, 2021)




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## Dom Traynor (Sep 15, 2021)

Norm is quite marmite. I love his delivery and writing. The pauses, the little looks at the audience and the banal repetition and tangents. He's just a natural story teller.


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## Ming (Sep 15, 2021)




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## Johnny Vodka (Sep 15, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> you can listen for free, but it's almost completely intolerable cos of the ads. So it's not free, unless you like listening to ads



It's fine for listening to podcasts - no ads, or maybe one block of ads in a 3 hour podcast.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2021)

“3 hour podcast” of a cunt spouting shit - no thanks


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## maomao (Sep 15, 2021)

All the I heart radio podcasts on Spotify have ads (mostly for other podcasts tbf) even if you do subscribe.


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## hitmouse (Sep 15, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I didn’t find that at all funny. I found the delivery very off-putting too.  This is the first I’ve heard of this guy, though, so maybe I’m missing context.
> 
> It’s sad that he’s died though.
> 
> I’m not familiar with any of the people on this thread, except Louis CK, but only because he was in Parks and Rec and then got famous for forcing people to watch him wank, fucking weirdo.  Not sure how I ended up on this thread really.


Maomao posted a helpful summary a few pages back:


maomao said:


> So conclusions on the names in the title.
> 
> 1) Louis CK - sex case
> 2) Joe Rogan - boring, history of racist and homophobic language, regularly gives platforms to the absolute worst kind of people
> ...


In case anyone's wondering, the Cum Town guy is definitely a proper prick as well.

Also, somehow I still keep thinking Norm MacDonald is the character from Cheers, no matter how much of this thread I read.


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## Dom Traynor (Sep 15, 2021)

Yep. Nearly all the podcasts have a few ads and that's fine.


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## Dom Traynor (Sep 15, 2021)

Norm is sometimes lumped in with the others because he was clearly a Republican of some sort, or at least on the right while claiming to be apolitical. Never heard a single bad story about him though or actual racism, misogyny etc. Not that I'm aware of - he seems to have been pretty popular across the spectrum.


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## Johnny Vodka (Sep 15, 2021)

Dom Traynor said:


> Yep. Nearly all the podcasts have a few ads and that's fine.



Thinking about it, they often do have some plugging.  I'll listen to Tim Ferriss if he has someone interesting on, and he plugs stuff at the beginning. But easy just to forward on.


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## danny la rouge (Sep 15, 2021)

8ball said:


> Yeah, I wasn’t keen on that one either.
> 
> This one is my favourite, you may not like it either but the whole bit gets me every time.



No, nothing sorry. Although he comes across as very likeable.  However, someone on Twitter finally posted a routine I like:


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## Dom Traynor (Sep 15, 2021)

"Hitler didn't drink Tequila. It made him mean".


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 15, 2021)

RIP Norm. 
I haven't seen him be all that funny for a few years, but I have very much enjoyed his work in the past. 
Bummer.


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## Elpenor (Sep 15, 2021)

Always liked his Burt Reynolds impression in celebrity jeopardy. Never watched Cheers, a bit young for that. 61 is no age.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2021)

Dom Traynor said:


> Yep. Nearly all the podcasts have a few ads and that's fine.


Acast is better cos you can skip through the ads and it doesn’t have Joe Rogan on it


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## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> Always liked his Burt Reynolds impression in celebrity jeopardy. Never watched Cheers, a bit young for that. 61 is no age.


Norm Mcdonald wasn’t in Cheers, you may be thinking of the character Norm, played by George Wendt, who’s still going strong


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## Elpenor (Sep 15, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Norm Mcdonald wasn’t in Cheers, you may be thinking of the character Norm, played by George Wendt, who’s still going strong


I must be. Cheers!


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## Dom Traynor (Sep 15, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Acast is better cos you can skip through the ads and it doesn’t have Joe Rogan on it


Tbh Spotify has never even recommended Rogan to me. I assume because i am not a bedwetter


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## Ming (Sep 16, 2021)




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## Ming (Sep 16, 2021)

One more to show why he got fired from SNL and what a cool guy he was.


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 16, 2021)

Nice tribute to Norm Macdonald reprinted here from the _WashPo_:









						Norm Macdonald was Tolstoy in sweatpants - even when he texted you in the middle of the night
					

One thing Norm Macdonald would have hated, besides dying, is the Deadline story...




					www.chron.com


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## danny la rouge (Sep 16, 2021)

He isn’t being mourned in some quarters. I hadn’t heard of him until the other day so no idea how accurate this take is.


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## petee (Sep 17, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> He isn’t being mourned in some quarters. I hadn’t heard of him until the other day so no idea how accurate this take is.



he did some pretty dicey stuff, ethnic stuff and "lesbians" stuff.

i liked best his first internet talk show, norm macdonald live. the posting history is odd and anymore the episodes are split between vimeo and youtube. i can recommend the shows with letterman, seinfeld, hader, and bob einstein. lots of inside stories.


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## Ming (Sep 18, 2021)

One more.


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## belboid (Apr 4, 2022)

Cancel culture has clearly been cancelled. Louis CK won best spoken word album at the Grammys last night.  

The bbc have managed to include a subheading in their article on the awards saying “Avoiding controversy all night”

Hmm, maybe not…


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> The bbc have managed to include a subheading in their article on the awards saying “Avoiding controversy all night”


So he managed not to wank on anyone at the ceremony? Wow what a hero.


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## Ax^ (Apr 4, 2022)

q


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## Ax^ (Apr 4, 2022)

.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 4, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> So he managed not to wank on anyone at the ceremony? Wow what a hero.


Now there is a guy who should be slapped at an awards show.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 4, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> .


Interesting point.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 4, 2022)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Now there is a guy who should be slapped at an awards show.


My daughter called him 'the nice cop from parks and rec' the other day when she saw him in something else. . . . "whatever happened to him?" 
I think I just said "Scandal"


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## Ax^ (Apr 4, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Interesting point.



fuck knows what going on their managed to do 2 random posts one with just q and one with qwe 

*shrugs


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## surreybrowncap (Apr 4, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> q


You called....?


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## BigMoaner (Apr 4, 2022)

joe rogan has a good interview style and good format, but unfunny, and often toxic/dangerous.


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## Ax^ (Apr 4, 2022)

he a dangerous fuckwit who drags people in shite know sound people who defended him

even with the racist element that popped up recently


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## BigMoaner (Apr 4, 2022)

and louis CK was one of the funniest men alive.

but yeh sex case. 

i like theo vorn otu of that lot.

but they all dress to the right, even though many pretend not too.


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## Dystopiary (Apr 4, 2022)

surreybrowncap said:


> You called....?



I never notice the Connect 4 piece shoulder embellishment before.


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## 8ball (Apr 4, 2022)

BigMoaner said:


> but they all dress to the right, even though many pretend not too.



Been a while since we've seen the genito-political conflation on here.


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## bellaozzydog (Apr 4, 2022)

8ball said:


> Been a while since we've seen the genito-political conflation on here.



Saves “Genito-political conflation” for future use


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## rutabowa (Apr 5, 2022)

That most recent Louis ck special is as funny as anything he ever put out tbh


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## maomao (Apr 5, 2022)

rutabowa said:


> That most recent Louis ck special is as funny as anything he ever put out tbh


The beginning was awkward and the cheer for the first masturbation reference was disturbing in the circumstances, but yes I was chuckling guiltily round Sainsbury's this morning.


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## Ming (Apr 6, 2022)

Did he actually wank ON anyone? Serious point. I‘d find it amusing if someone had a habit of wanking in public. I’d run away from them obviously when they were in the act but I’d still find it funny (as long as they weren’t mentally ill or having a crisis). If CK did it intentionally to abuse and offend people then I’m opposed. But if his intention was to amuse then i think it’s an overreaction. But i do work in psychiatry so I’m probably used to weird behaviour more than most.


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## two sheds (Apr 7, 2022)

Ming said:


> Did he actually wank ON anyone? Serious point. I‘d find it amusing if someone had a habit of wanking in public. I’d run away from them obviously when they were in the act but I’d still find it funny (as long as they weren’t mentally ill or having a crisis). If CK did it intentionally to abuse and offend people then I’m opposed. But if his intention was to amuse then i think it’s an overreaction. But i do work in psychiatry so I’m probably used to weird behaviour more than most.


True enough. Which of us _hasn't _ done that in a park on their own some time?


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## Ming (Apr 7, 2022)

two sheds said:


> True enough. Which of us _hasn't _ done that in a park on their own some time?


Well if it’s an expected behaviour and everyone genuinely finds it funny…(…oh Louis’ wanking again…!).

ETA: I wouldn’t do it myself obviously (unless people threw coins).


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## Yossarian (Apr 7, 2022)

Ming said:


> Did he actually wank ON anyone? Serious point. I‘d find it amusing if someone had a habit of wanking in public. I’d run away from them obviously when they were in the act but I’d still find it funny (as long as they weren’t mentally ill or having a crisis). If CK did it intentionally to abuse and offend people then I’m opposed. But if his intention was to amuse then i think it’s an overreaction. But i do work in psychiatry so I’m probably used to weird behaviour more than most.



It sounds like more of a power thing than trying to amuse - he repeatedly asked junior staff members to come to his office and watch him wank.


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## two sheds (Apr 7, 2022)

oops I thought this was the story of the plod knocking one out in the park

please ignore my posts


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## Ming (Apr 7, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> It sounds like more of a power thing than trying to amuse - he repeatedly asked junior staff members to come to his office and watch him wank.


Well in that case it’s gross (didn’t know that).


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## belboid (Apr 7, 2022)

Ming said:


> I’d still find it funny* (as long as they weren’t mentally ill or having a crisis). *


how many people do you think that might apply to? And why might _they _be doing it?


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## Ming (Apr 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> how many people do you think that might apply to? And why might _they _be doing it?


Someone who is not having a crisis or isn't mentally ill and wanking in public? Good luck to them. More power to the forearm.


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## 8ball (Apr 7, 2022)

Ming said:


> Someone who is not having a crisis or isn't mentally ill and wanking in public? Good luck to them. More power to the forearm.



Generally kind of frowned upon.


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## Ming (Apr 7, 2022)

Up to them.


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## BristolEcho (Apr 7, 2022)

Ming said:


> Up to them.


It's really not if they are forcing it upon other people? Am I just misunderstanding you? Indecent exposure is out of order and whilst you might find it funny perhaps you can imagine why others may find it distressing and threatening. If someone had a habit of wanking in public I would question what else they do.









						What are indecent exposure, flashing and cyber flashing?
					

Indecent exposure or flashing is when someone shows their genitals in order to scare or upset another person. It is a form of sexual violence.




					rapecrisis.org.uk
				




I'd say it's usually linked to power btw.


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## Ming (Apr 7, 2022)

BristolEcho said:


> It's really not if they are forcing it upon other people? Am I just misunderstanding you? Indecent exposure is out of order and whilst you might find it funny perhaps you can imagine why others may find it distressing and threatening. If someone had a habbit of wanking in public I would question what else they do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No. If someone's offend it's out of order. If forced out of order.


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## BristolEcho (Apr 7, 2022)

Ming said:


> No. If someone's offend it's out of order. If forced out of order.


There is no way that someone doing that in public had the consent of everyone to do it. I am thinking public spaces here. It would always be forced.


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## Ming (Apr 7, 2022)

BristolEcho said:


> There is no way that someone doing that in public had the consent of everyone to do it. I am thinking public spaces here. It would always be forced.


I don't know. To be honest if I had a mate (I'm male) who did that regularly I'd not be in to it and I'd find it uncomfortable. And I'd discourage them ('STOP WANKING IN PUBLIC!!!).

Actually a son of a friend of mine always strips off to that song from the movie Coyote Ugly when it's on the jukebox. People put the song on for a laugh. He's now a Royal Marine Commando.


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## Dom Traynor (Apr 7, 2022)

Marines always strip off at the first opportunity.


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## rutabowa (Apr 7, 2022)

No way I'm going to defend him, here is what he actually did so judge for yourself: Louis C.K. Is Accused by 5 Women of Sexual Misconduct (Published 2017)

Not quite enough for a lifetime boycott for me, but others may see it differently. "Asking pemission" in a hotel room obv does not excuse it at all, due to power dynamics, but makes it slightly different to doing it in public with no warning. Imo.


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## Dystopiary (Apr 7, 2022)

It's abusive and it's controlling, and he's done this shit repeatedly. I really wish he would lose his platform.


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## rutabowa (May 15, 2022)

Ohh there was a last new norm Macdonald special recorded before he died, very happy to hear this


			NPR Cookie Consent and Choices


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