# Cheap, possibly second hand, 4/3 cameras



## fractionMan (Jun 28, 2012)

I'm thinking of spending the camera money I've put aside on a small 4/3 (or other interchangeable system camera - not fussy) instead of a new lens for my DSLR.

Basically I'm looking for something small, light with a fast prime lens with a focal length between 30-50mm @ film equiv. I'm not that bothered about it being the latest or greatest or even having a pile of pixels but I'd like decent image quality for as little as possible. It's for street/people photography and taking out when the DSLR is too bulky.

I guess I'm talking early iteration old models. Suggestions on what I should be looking for?


----------



## fractionMan (Jun 28, 2012)

Looks like there's less of these things on the market than I thought.  Only 20 to be precise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Four_Thirds_system#Micro_Four_Thirds_system_cameras


> Major features of available and announced Micro Four Thirds system camera bodies
> ItemModelSensorElectronic View Finder (EVF)Announced
> 1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 4:3 / 13.1 mp (12.1 mp effective) EVF; 1.4x magnification; 1.44M dots October 2008[16]
> 2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 4:3; 3:2; 16:9 (multi-aspect); 14.0 mp (12.1 mp effect) EVF; 1.4x mag; 1.44M dots April 2009[17]
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2012)

Have you looked at the thread about the £200 Lumix G2 from Tesco?


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2012)

The Olympus Pen cameras are good.


----------



## fractionMan (Jun 28, 2012)

Tesco g2 Sold out and also a bit big


----------



## fractionMan (Jun 28, 2012)

GF1 + 20mm f1.7 (basically what I'm after) just went for £345 on ebay.

Waaay more than I'm prepared to pay.  Guess that's my mind made up.


----------



## cybertect (Jun 28, 2012)

Keep an eye on 2nd hand dealers - eBay prices can be silly on occasion, often more than you can buy from a dealer and more confidence and comeback if something goes wrong. You may even get a warranty.

Ffordes have some more affordable Oly Pens. One of my favourite second hand photographic suppliers.

LCE have a GF2 kit at £199 and an Oly E-PL1 kit for £179.

e2a: MBP Photographic: GF3 kit - £234


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2012)

What sort of price are you looking at, anyway?

(M)4/3 cameras are recent enough that any that are working aren't going to be going cheap.


----------



## cybertect (Jun 28, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> GF1 + 20mm f1.7 (basically what I'm after) just went for £345 on ebay.
> 
> Waaay more than I'm prepared to pay. Guess that's my mind made up.


 
Castle Cameras have a 'mint' example at £249

http://www.castlecameras.co.uk/used-equipment/used-list

Harrison Cameras have an E-PL1 kit for £160

http://www.harrisoncameras.net/productdetail.kmod?Productid=11794

e2a: sorry, they're all with kit zooms, not primes as you asked in the OP, but there are body-only options at all the dealers I've linked to.


----------



## fractionMan (Jun 29, 2012)

I was thinking up to 200.  John Lewis had gf2+prime on offer for that price but I missed it.


----------



## contadino (Jun 29, 2012)

A few weeks ago I was monitoring Panasonic G1 prices on eBay, and you should be able to pick up one of those for somewhere in the region of GBP 120-150. That would leave you GBP 50-80 for a pancake lens. Is that enough? The G1 got good reviews on dpreview etc..


----------



## cybertect (Jun 29, 2012)

Since the 14mm f/2.5 lens in that kit sells new for over £200 on its own (often £250+) that John Lewis deal was quite an exceptional bargain.


----------



## dweller (Jun 29, 2012)

Yeah. Almost plunged for that john lewis deal but held back as have G2 and didn't want hassle of selling the GF2. You can get the 14mm lens new seperated from kit on ebay for 125 quid.

Sent from my HTC Desire Z using Tapatalk


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 3, 2012)

Anyone have experience of the samsung NX system cameras? They look nice and review well imo. Have aps-c sensors and can mount pentax K lenses too with an adaptor. Also, there's a really nice 30mm f2 lens = 125 quid. I could get the lot (camera, kit 18-55, 30mm f2) brand new for less than £300. Not that I've got 300 quid, but I could buy it over two months - camera this month, lens next month  

Basically I could sell the pentax k-x on ebay and get the nx11 + pancake for the same money. I think I need to try it out.

edit: tried it out - it feels great in the hand. It's like a mini dslr - much smaller and lighter than the k-x. Just read it has the same sensor as the pentax k-7 and k20d and the lens I'm after is supposed to be really, really good too: http://www.lenstip.com/224.11-Lens_review-Samsung_NX_30_mm_f_2.0_Summary.html . The kit lens isn't bad either.

I quite like the electronic viewfinder as it changes as you change exposure/white balance etc and it seems reasonably decent.  Also, the HUD information is useful.   Not a patch IQ wise on an optical one though.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 3, 2012)

I know I'm probably talking to myself here, but I've just seen the nx100 with 20-50 lens, sd card and flash for less than 200 quid.

Also, you can attach this: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1001&message=41770989&changemode=1







for another 15 quid. Aparently it's perfect for the 30mm pancake.

So now I have to decide on the nx11 vs nx100.  Same sensor/quality.  Nx100 is more like a compact (epl sized - no viewfinder) nx11 more like a mini dslr (grip+viewfinder)


----------



## dweller (Jul 4, 2012)

NX100 looks nice to me. More pocketable too. 
If that's any help 

Sent from my HTC Desire Z using Tapatalk


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 4, 2012)

Cheers dweller. I think I'm gonna buy the nx100, sell the 20-50 and flash and buy the 30mm.   About 210 quid total imo


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 5, 2012)

Here they are side by side:




Samsung NX11 and NX100 side-by-side by Which? Tech, on Flickr


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 5, 2012)

Olympus E-PL1 and 14-42 now £200 at argos.

Argh. Choices! nx100 for £194 or e-pl1 for £200


----------



## dweller (Jul 5, 2012)

What do I know. NX100 looks slick to me and has bigger sensor. EP1 has a dial wheel on top which can be handy. Are you going to buy many more lenses and bodies? M43 has more choice in that area. Olympus reputed to produce decent jpgs if you don't use RAW.
 Swings and roundabouts.I'd try the nx100 as an impulse buy. Your choice. 

Sent from my HTC Desire Z using Tapatalk


----------



## dweller (Jul 7, 2012)

Just noticed that NX100 doesn't have a built in flash. 
You need an extra flash gun.
Also noticed you can get a starter kit which includes both camera and flash from argos ebay outlet  here for £189.00

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330737548...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2566wt_1139


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 7, 2012)

dweller said:


> Just noticed that NX100 doesn't have a built in flash.
> You need an extra flash gun.
> Also noticed you can get a starter kit which includes both camera and flash from argos ebay outlet here for £189.00
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330737548...X:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2566wt_1139


 
That's the one I saw. Now debating that or a sigma 28mm f1.8 Autofocus for the k-x I've stumbled upon for the same money.

I am shit at descisions. Tried the 35mm f2.4 everyone raves about and found it ok, but not offering me much my normal lens can't do, so at least that's out.


----------



## dweller (Jul 7, 2012)

Just 





fractionMan said:


> That's the one I saw. Now debating that or a sigma 28mm f1.8 Autofocus I've stumbled upon. I am shit at descisions.


 
just to bamboozle you even more the gf2 plus 14mm pancake is back in stock at john lewis for 199.00 though it is the shiny red one http://www.johnlewis.com/231464000/Product.aspx?source=46387


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 7, 2012)

dweller said:


> What do I know. NX100 looks slick to me and has bigger sensor. EP1 has a dial wheel on top which can be handy. Are you going to buy many more lenses and bodies? M43 has more choice in that area. Olympus reputed to produce decent jpgs if you don't use RAW.
> Swings and roundabouts.I'd try the nx100 as an impulse buy. Your choice.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Desire Z using Tapatalk


 
I'd be after the 30mm f2 pancake for the NX or the 20mm f2 pancake for the 4/3.  The first is half the price (110 second hand) but just as good, which makes the system overall cheaper.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 7, 2012)

dweller said:


> Just
> 
> just to bamboozle you even more the gf2 plus 14mm pancake is back in stock at john lewis for 199.00 though it is the shiny red one http://www.johnlewis.com/231464000/Product.aspx?source=46387


 
 

Great deal but fortunately the 28mm (@35mm equiv) and red case doesn't do it for me, so I'll probably give it a miss


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 7, 2012)

I've decided that the most important things I'm after here are the things I don't currently have with my DSLR, namely

it's pocketable
it has a cheap fast normal AF prime
so I'm going for the nx100.

eta: Dammit. Just watched this: 

I need to go play with one in a shop


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Jul 10, 2012)

You can tell he doesn't like the camera from the way he holds it from the beginning. The guy is a bit odd really and at first I thought he just wasn't used to holding cameras. Only towards the end does he reveal that he simply doesn't like it but cannot articulate why.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

I still think it's a decent camera.  If I was cameraless or anyone asked me to recommend something I'd point them at the 190 quid nx100.

For me though, I've realised I'm (a) too skint and (b) want the 28mm f1.8 AF DSLR lens I've found instead.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

I wouldn't get a Samsung.  Too few lenses and a creeping feeling that the system may not be around for that long.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I wouldn't get a Samsung. Too few lenses and a creeping feeling that the system may not be around for that long.


 
There's plenty of lenses for the NX and some of them are really, really good. Plus there's a pentax K mount adaptor for all your old school manual focus needs. The lenses they do have are generally cheaper than the micro 4:3 equivalents too.  I don't think it's going away as a mount/system - they've just released the new versions of the cameras.

tbh I only want the 30mm f2 pancake anyway.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> There's plenty of lenses for the NX and some of them are really, really good. Plus there's a pentax K mount adaptor for all your old school manual focus needs. The lenses they do have are generally cheaper than the micro 4:3 equivalents too.


You can stick a manual adapter on just about any old camera, but I'd be wary of investing in a proprietary lens system.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> You can stick a manual adapter on just about any old camera, but I'd be wary of investing in a proprietary lens system.


 
They're all proprietary in the end though. The only difference with m43 is that two companies make cameras with that mount.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

The only mount I'd really never go for is the pentax Q, which was a typical bad/bonkers idea from pentax. There's only 5 lenses and 3 of them are labelled 'toy'.

Samsung/pentax have teamed up making cameras and lenses before. I'd love to see them team up with samsung and share the NX mount system. Instead they've made the k-01 mirrorless K mount camera, which personally I like the look of but many people hate with a passion. The problem with using SLR lens mount is that the camera has to be as deep as an SLR to work properly, negating the benefit (size) of having no mirror. Doh.  Still, it's smaller than a SLR.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> They're all proprietary in the end though. The only difference with m43 is that two companies make cameras with that mount.


And that other companies have started to make m43 lens.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> And that other companies have started to make m43 lens.


 
This is true.

Not sure why nobody else makes NX mount AF lenses, could be there's no market, could be samsung making it difficult. Could be it's hard to undercut already bargain lenses.  It's the same for the nikon and sony compact system mounts too, well at least I think it is.

Samyang make their lenses for the NX, NEX, Canon, Nikon, Sony & Pentax mounts. Probably m43 mount too, I've not checked. They're manual lenses though.


----------



## DHeadache (Jul 11, 2012)

Stumbled upon this thread and thought I'd just add my 2 penneth... I was in the same boat as you... wanted something more compact than my SLR as a carry around - I had an EP1 and sold it as the image quality and overall speed just wasn't there - I looked at most of the offerings mentioned in this thread as well as the Sony NEX range but was put off by the Sony hotshoe so I picked up the kit you mentioned from the Argos Outlet deal and got a second hand 30mm for another £100 - to be honest I wasn't expecting much for my money but was pleasantly suprised, great auto focus even in low light and nice sharp pics form the 30mm even at max aperture.... although the Samsung isn't as good as my SLR it's fine for street stuff and snapshots, could do with a bit more grip but generally handling and menus are good (I've got the viewfinder on it's way from Korea though as I still cant get used to holding a camera this size at arms length!) 
I do also have my doubts about the longevity of the NX mount, although Samsung seem to be focusing all their efforts on it, new models have just come out with built in wifi and rumours of Samsung making Android powered cameras are floating about so it could be around for a while... I just figured if I can either pick up all the lenses now I wont worry about how long they're made for, or if the NX mount disappears into the mists of time I should be able to get some very fine lenses (85mm 1.4 and 60mm 2.8 Macro caught my eye!) for peanuts  in the not so distant future when everyone clears out their obsolete kit...


----------



## cybertect (Jul 21, 2012)

Black GF2 + 14mm for £199 at Dixons online and  in stock as I post

http://www.dixons.co.uk/gbuk/panaso...l?srcid=369&xtor=AL-63&cmpid=aff~VigLink Inc~


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2012)

Oh smart. I've been looking at options for a smaller µ4/3 camera for a bit now, and was even going to buy that 14mm lens separately and try it on my G2 for compactness - for just a little more I can apparently now get a whole camera to go with it! I don't think I'm going to do much better for that money. Plus the GF2 was the last GF to have an accessory shoe.


----------



## dweller (Nov 20, 2012)

Just got hold of a silver GF1 body on ebay for £77 delivered to have a more compact body to compliment the G2.
I found that I couldn't really just stuff a G2 into a coat pocket.
I'll see if the GF1 becomes a "take about with me" camera coupled with the 20mm 1.7.
If it doesn't work out, well I didn't spend too much and can probably just sell it.


----------



## MBV (Nov 20, 2012)

Sounds like you got a bargain there.


----------



## dweller (Nov 20, 2012)

dfm said:


> Sounds like you got a bargain there.


I think you're right.
It has a dent on the bottom corner that I knew about, but it doesn't affect the performance. 
That and the less popular silver colouring probably kept the bidding low.
I've given it a cursory test out and all seems to be in order.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2012)

dweller said:


> Just got hold of a silver GF1 body on ebay for £77 delivered to have a more compact body to compliment the G2.
> I found that I couldn't really just stuff a G2 into a coat pocket.
> I'll see if the GF1 becomes a "take about with me" camera coupled with the 20mm 1.7.
> If it doesn't work out, well I didn't spend too much and can probably just sell it.


The GF1 is a great camera. Add in the 14mm f2.3 lens you'll have a really small combo.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 21, 2012)

I got that GF2 mentioned above and it's become my standard pocket camera now. The kit Panasonic 14mm pancake is excellent - tiny, sharp, super-quick to focus, and fast enough that you can get good shots at night at 1600, which is pretty tolerable. The 20/1.7 is also good on it, and about a stop faster, though slightly larger and a little slower to focus (by which I mean "it takes a noticeable fraction of a second rather than occurring instantly").

I'm thinking I might sell my G2 - it's a great camera, but I find that if I'm picking something to put over my shoulder when I go out, or for a specific purpose, 99% of the time I pick a film SLR instead. The GF2 is literally pocketable and the results are the same.


----------



## Biddlybee (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm liking the sound of the GF2... I'm going to do some more investigating and window shopping.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 21, 2012)

I ended up buying a 17-50 f2.8 DSLR lens with the money instead. Mainly because I lost my kit lens 

I'd still like a small one though.


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2012)

Biddlybee said:


> I'm liking the sound of the GF2... I'm going to do some more investigating and window shopping.









If you can afford the £490 or so, the Olympus E-PL5 +14-42mm II R Lens Kit is a fantastic camera with superb low light performance - it's basically a smaller OM-D and I can't rave about that camera enough!


----------



## Biddlybee (Nov 21, 2012)

I can't afford that, but then I can't afford a second hand GF2 either  I'm just starting to have a look at 4/3


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2012)

Biddlybee said:


> I can't afford that, but then I can't afford a second hand GF2 either  I'm just starting to have a look at 4/3







How about the Olympus PEN E-PL1 + Olympus 14-42mm lens for £230?


----------



## Biddlybee (Nov 21, 2012)

I really am only looking right now ed, I don't have a spare £20


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 21, 2012)

That epl5 has the same dxomark as my dslr!

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/839|0/(brand)/Olympus/(appareil2)/639|0/(brand2)/Pentax

That and the OM-D are leaps and bounds ahead of any other 4:3


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> That epl5 has the same dxomark as my dslr!
> 
> http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/839|0/(brand)/Olympus/(appareil2)/639|0/(brand2)/Pentax


It's an amazing wee thing. This was taken handheld at 640 ISO.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 21, 2012)

Oh for a big pile of cash


----------

