# Next Microsoft flight simulator looks astonishing



## Steel Icarus (Oct 1, 2019)

Caveat: if they can pull it off. It uses cloud data from Bing Maps and Microsoft Azure. There's real time, real world weather. The resolution is ridiculous...

The biggest surprise of Microsoft Flight Simulator: it makes Bing cool


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## fishfinger (Oct 1, 2019)

It's very impressive. I'll certainly give this a good look when it finally lands.


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## ruffneck23 (Oct 1, 2019)

looks great


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## Detroit City (Oct 1, 2019)

I've been playing MSFS since the first version came out.  But my latest version of FS won't run on Windows 10.  Is this new iteration of FS compatible with Windows 10?


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## ruffneck23 (Oct 1, 2019)

Detroit City said:


> I've been playing MSFS since the first version came out.  But my latest version of FS won't run on Windows 10.  Is this new iteration of FS compatible with Windows 10?


I'm sure it will be as its the newest version of windows at the moment


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 1, 2019)

> Last week, we learned that _The Last of Us Part 2_ would ship on two Blu-ray discs. A single copy of _Microsoft Flight Simulator_ would need 20,000 of them. So, instead of installing the game off disc, or even downloading a large portion of it as part of the initial installation, consumers will stream in assets while they play.



Blimey that's a hellva lotta data.

I like that it pulls in real time weather info


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## souljacker (Oct 1, 2019)

Detroit City said:


> I've been playing MSFS since the first version came out.  But my latest version of FS won't run on Windows 10.  Is this new iteration of FS compatible with Windows 10?



FSX? It runs fine on my Win10 PC.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 1, 2019)

does it have flying over cities in it?


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## ruffneck23 (Oct 1, 2019)

yeah it seems so , if it was out now I'd probably be flying over manchester.


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## Detroit City (Oct 1, 2019)

souljacker said:


> FSX? It runs fine on my Win10 PC.


ok i'll try for the 5th time to install FSX again


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## nogojones (Oct 1, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> does it have flying over cities in it?


Can you crash planes into big skyscrapers?


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## Detroit City (Oct 17, 2019)

is there an expected release date on MSFS2020??


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## Steel Icarus (Oct 17, 2019)

Detroit City said:


> is there an expected release date on MSFS2020??


Don't think so. Just next year


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## Detroit City (May 19, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Don't think so. Just next year


this is fucking ridiculous, i've been waiting since 2006


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## mauvais (May 19, 2020)

I'm on the alpha. It's good, and a big step forward for MSFS, although I kind of forgot what an awkward experience proper flight simulators are.


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## paul mckenna (Jun 23, 2020)

that's incredible. Pulling in CAD files of the planes is just next-level


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 25, 2020)

I bought a new computer, almost entirely because I want to be able to play MSFS. I have such great memories of playing the original on my first PC back in the 90s.

Also I am reliably informed that it will be free for Xbox Game Pass holders, so that seems like a pretty good option to go for with all of the other free games that gets you.


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## dylanredefined (Jul 7, 2020)

Flight simulators just remind me why I am groundcrew


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 13, 2020)

August 18th for PC on game pass


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 16, 2020)




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## Detroit City (Jul 16, 2020)

what are the hardware requirements?  i'll probably have to buy a new laptop


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## Buddy Bradley (Jul 16, 2020)

Detroit City said:


> what are the hardware requirements?  i'll probably have to buy a new laptop



CPU: Ryzen 3 1200/Intel i5-4460.
GPU: Radeon RX 570/NVIDIA GTX 770.
VRAM: 2GB.
RAM: 8GB.
HDD: 150 GB.
OS: Windows 10 November 2019 update.
Bandwidth: 5 Mbps.


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## Detroit City (Jul 17, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> CPU: Ryzen 3 1200/Intel i5-4460.
> GPU: Radeon RX 570/NVIDIA GTX 770.
> VRAM: 2GB.
> RAM: 8GB.
> ...


thanks BB


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## Buddy Bradley (Jul 17, 2020)

Think those are the minimum specs - recommended is Ryzen 7/i7 and 16GB RAM.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2020)

ruffneck23 said:


>



That plane is carrying a hundred copies of the game which have filled its cabin


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## Detroit City (Jul 20, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Think those are the minimum specs - recommended is Ryzen 7/i7 and 16GB RAM.


indeed BB - these are the recommended specs:


*CPU:* AMD Ryzen 5 1500X, or Intel i5-8400
*GPU:* Radeon RX 590, or Nvidia GTX 970
*VRAM:* 4 GB
*RAM:* 16 GB
*HDD:* 150 GB
*Internet speed:* 20 Mbps (2.5 MB/s)


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 20, 2020)

Detroit City said:


> indeed BB - these are the recommended specs:
> 
> 
> *CPU:* AMD Ryzen 5 1500X, or Intel i5-8400
> ...



You most certainly be better with a desktop unless you have silly money to spend.

Or buy an X Box.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 20, 2020)

or get a shadow pc, boost tier is 12,99 per month  , this is what I do,I did post in a could gaming thread and most people dismissed it , more fool them


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## Buddy Bradley (Jul 20, 2020)

Detroit City said:


> indeed BB - these are the recommended specs:
> 
> 
> *CPU:* AMD Ryzen 5 1500X, or Intel i5-8400
> ...


Ah yeah, Ryzen 7 or i7 are the "ideal" specs. I have one, plus a Radeon 5700XT - only thing I'm not quite "ideal" at is the 32GB RAM.


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## platinumsage (Aug 3, 2020)

Chernobyl looks a bit shit: youtu.be/jTR7EieRWeo?t=181


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## alsoknownas (Aug 3, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Chernobyl looks a bit shit: youtu.be/jTR7EieRWeo?t=181


Shit as in 'spectacle of devastating impact on humanity and nature in general', or shit as in 'low poly-count mesh rendering'?


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## editor (Aug 3, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Chernobyl looks a bit shit: youtu.be/jTR7EieRWeo?t=181


Embedded for you. 



The graphics are amazing. I've zero interest in flight sims but I could imagine myself enjoying a few hours flying around cities.


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## platinumsage (Aug 3, 2020)

alsoknownas said:


> Shit as in 'spectacle of devastating impact on humanity and nature in general', or shit as in 'low poly-count mesh rendering'?



Shit as in looks nothing like it whatsoever.


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## platinumsage (Aug 3, 2020)

editor said:


> Embedded for you.
> 
> 
> 
> The graphics are amazing. I've zero interest in flight sims but I could imagine myself enjoying a few hours flying around cities.




Im tempted but suspect a steep learning curve. It took me years to able to dock in Elite without computer help.


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## editor (Aug 3, 2020)

Crashes!



Out of curiosity, how hard is it to get a plane up and pootling about? Are joysticks essential?


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## editor (Aug 3, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Im tempted but suspect a steep learning curve. It took me years to able to dock in Elite without computer help.


I refuse to go anywhere near the latest Elite as I know I'll never leave the house again.


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## alsoknownas (Aug 3, 2020)

editor said:


> I refuse to go anywhere near the latest Elite as I know I'll never leave the house again.


Yep.  Same here.  Terrifies me.

That said, I am leaning towards getting this.

In terms of difficulty - flight sim stuff is not a game.  In order to do it even proficiently you need to invest some time into it.  That said, with a bit of guesswork, a lot of settings on auto, and a bit of frustrating effort, you can get a (small) plane into the air and mess about with it (then likely crash).  Which is a lot of fun.


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## Supine (Aug 3, 2020)

editor said:


> I refuse to go anywhere near the latest Elite as I know I'll never leave the house again.



Next lockdown sorted though


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## elbows (Aug 4, 2020)

editor said:


> Crashes!
> 
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity, how hard is it to get a plane up and pootling about? Are joysticks essential?




I'm in a similar boat, and I intend to get this as soon as its released. So I will try to provide you with my impressions and a guide for those who dont care for the sim bit, once I have actual experience with this.

And then I'm supposed to go further by getting the HP Reverb G2 VR headset when its released, since my attempts to sort my life out by developing stuff for VR have tended to be curtailed by me being fussy and unimpressed by the screen resolution with VR headsets so far, but this one seems like a reasonably nice mix of features and sufficient resolution to maybe satisfy me. But that VR headset is due a month later than this sim comes out, so I wont let this distract me from offering advice for those who want to pootle about looking at pretty scenes.


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## mauvais (Aug 4, 2020)

You need a joystick and ideally HOTAS - hands-on throttle and stick, basically a two piece control set. Without this it's a pretty horrible experience.

It's never going to be super accessible but you can fly low powered planes easily enough if you're willing to get stuck in.

When I said this: 


mauvais said:


> I'm on the alpha. It's good, and a big step forward for MSFS, although I kind of forgot what an awkward experience proper flight simulators are.


I meant stuff like how, just like in a real plane, the cockpit obscures the majority of your view and you can't exactly zoom around like in a fun game. It's all a bit serious business. Like real flight you spend a lot of time just basically waiting and supervising stuff.


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## elbows (Aug 4, 2020)

mauvais said:


> When I said this:
> I meant stuff like how, just like in a real plane, the cockpit obscures the majority of your view and you can't exactly zoom around like in a fun game. It's all a bit serious business. Like real flight you spend a lot of time just basically waiting and supervising stuff.



Its got external camera and drone camera stuff in it, that much I have determined via some long videos.


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## mauvais (Aug 4, 2020)

elbows said:


> Its got external camera and drone camera stuff in it, that much I have determined via some long videos.


It does but neither is particularly conducive to just flying the plane.

You can probably hide the cockpit but I didn't figure out how.


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## Buddy Bradley (Aug 6, 2020)

I have a joystick (Thrustmaster T16000M) coming today, ready for launch. Not going for the full HOTAS set up just yet. Planning my first flight though - Cambridge airport then heading out into the Fens for a fly-by of my village/house.


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## alsoknownas (Aug 6, 2020)

Supposing one was thinking about indulging in a bit of both Flight Sim _and _Elite Dangerous (who needs real life anyway, right?) - is there much difference in the HOTAS requirements?

I'd be inclined to go for a sci-fi type number like this:







But will they also work with Microsoft Flight Sim?  Any compatibility issues?

Also - foot pedals - still a thing?


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## Bollox (Aug 6, 2020)

AKA Its an expensive copy of a 40 year old tankbuster's controls
Its probably a great stick for pretending to be tiny tom cruise in top gun,  I did have an earlier stick by the same company and although expensive it's action and sensitivity was rubbish, they get over - hyped by american wannabee fighter jocks beacause they are claimed to be made in America 

Saitek make decent stuff for realistic prices, I use seperate rudder pedals but the modern PC  sticks can twist about the vertical axis and use this to operate the rudder

I still sometimes use a simulator for keeping up with procedural stuff especially during this recent lay-off down to the Virus
I have ben using X-Plane 11 though, as FSX doesnt utilize the power of modern graphics cards, I might give 2020 a go but have no illusions that its going to improve over X-Plane in anything but visual eye candy.
No consumer simulator to date realisticly simulates actual handling of an aeroplane

(Someone earlier on mentioned FSX Not working under Win 10, it can be made to work but takes some messing)


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## Buddy Bradley (Aug 6, 2020)

There's a list somewhere from MS with all the HOTAS models that they recommend or are compatible with.

Foot pedals are definitely still a thing with the real hardcore sim nerds.


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## souljacker (Aug 6, 2020)

Bollox said:


> (Someone earlier on mentioned FSX Not working under Win 10, it can be made to work but takes some messing)



Works fine for me. Didn't require any messing at all.


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## Bollox (Aug 6, 2020)

Yes SJ, its a bit hit and miss and depends on what edition of FSX (ordinary/gold/SE)  and what your Win 10 install has running, Graphics Drivers, yada yada.
I had to fiddle a bit but in the end went over to Xplane as it made use of my Graphics card, FSX was always CPU dependent even for most of the visual stuff and didnt  get updated to utilize the power of today's graphics processors so always dropped frames or stuttered even on high end machines

X Plane is far better in this regard though 2020 might change that.
I don't  buy the superior flight model arguement that X-Plane fans always spout though, none of the consumer sims have anything like realism when it comes to the hands on flying aspect.


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## alsoknownas (Aug 6, 2020)

Bollox said:


> AKA Its an expensive copy of a 40 year old tankbuster's controls
> Its probably a great stick for pretending to be tiny tom cruise in top gun,  I did have an earlier stick by the same company and although expensive it's action and sensitivity was rubbish, they get over - hyped by american wannabee fighter jocks beacause they are claimed to be made in America
> 
> Saitek make decent stuff for realistic prices, I use seperate rudder pedals but the modern PC  sticks can twist about the vertical axis and use this to operate the rudder
> ...


Thanks for the info.  I haven't researched this gear yet, so the pic was just to give an idea.  There seem to be two flavours - sci-fi spaceship type affairs, and more realistic yoke controls.  Obviously I'm not gonna end up getting both, so I just wondered if there's any inherent disadvantage in going the sci-fi type route.


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## alsoknownas (Aug 6, 2020)

Bollox said:


> I don't  buy the superior flight model arguement that X-Plane fans always spout though, none of the consumer sims have anything like realism when it comes to the hands on flying aspect.


What are the most poorly reproduced elements? Handling? The omission of haptic feedback / sense of movement through space?


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## Supine (Aug 6, 2020)

alsoknownas said:


> so I just wondered if there's any inherent disadvantage in going the sci-fi type route.



Depends how old you are! I'd feel like a bit of a knob with a sci fi type 

Serious pilot business only I reckon


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## Bollox (Aug 6, 2020)

alsoknownas said:


> What are the most poorly reproduced elements? Handling? The omission of haptic feedback / sense of movement through space?



Yep largely that, but also actual aircraft performance and handling behaviour is never near right, I can only speak when comparing to aeroplanes that I have flown in real life which are few, but others who have flown different types will tell the same story.
I think it might be  in part limits of computing power, to simulate complex fluid dynamics in real time you probably need something more powerful than a PC so the Simulator companies just take shortcuts in the modelling so it runs on home equipment
Worth noting that  even big aircraft designers/producers still use  wind tunnel models to finalise designs as they know even with limitless Computing power they can't perfectly reproduce reality


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## alsoknownas (Aug 6, 2020)

Supine said:


> Depends how old you are! I'd feel like a bit of a knob with a sci fi type
> 
> Serious pilot business only I reckon


 It's not so knobbish when you're actually playing Elite or whatever, but yes, I won't be winning many coolness points at the local Aviation Club should I ever be invited (which I won't be).


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## alsoknownas (Aug 6, 2020)

Bollox said:


> Yep largely that, but also actual aircraft performance and handling behaviour is never near right, I can only speak when comparing to aeroplanes that I have flown in real life which are few, but others who have flown different types will tell the same story.
> I think it might be  in part limits of computing power, to simulate complex fluid dynamics in real time you probably need something more powerful than a PC so the Simulator companies just take shortcuts in the modelling so it runs on home equipment
> Worth noting that  even big aircraft designers/producers still use  wind tunnel models to finalise designs as they know even with limitless Computing power they can't perfectly reproduce reality


Interesting.  You are slightly rekindling my long, long dormant interest in piloting an aircraft .


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## alsoknownas (Aug 6, 2020)

I mean, I know some people are taking their Elite-playing a little too seriously, but still...



(Apologies for slight derail)


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## souljacker (Aug 6, 2020)

With Elite there is a LOT of buttons, just like flight sims. So anything with a bunch of switches can help so you aren't fumbling around trying to remember the key combinations for your landing gear before you crash into a high G planet.


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## elbows (Aug 6, 2020)

editor said:


> Out of curiosity, how hard is it to get a plane up and pootling about? Are joysticks essential?



As part of my promised irregular series of posts about how easy it is to cut all the corners on the sim side of things so we can mostly just enjoy the view, I can now report that I've seen a video where the flight began with the plane already in flight. I was already planning to treat landing as a luxury I could do without if I couldnt be bothered, now it looks like I can do the same for takeoffs.

Likely I will eventually get round to investing enough time into being able to learn how to do these things with a very small and simple plane, but I'll still do the corner cutting stuff so I can stare at the scenery in the meantime, before I bother to learn the plane and how to do stuff other than work the camera and not crash straight away.

If anything scuppers your plans to have a go with this thing, it will probably be hardware. I didnt check back on the thread to see what sort of machine you have. But as far as controllers go, I initially intend to try to get away with an xbox one controller plugged into the PC. I wont be looking at a proper flight sim joystick etc unless I really get into the whole flying thing, and I will also wait to see what sort of control scheme they've gone for in VR mode.


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## alsoknownas (Aug 6, 2020)

elbows said:


> As part of my promised irregular series of posts about how easy it is to cut all the corners on the sim side of things so we can mostly just enjoy the view, I can now report that I've seen a video where the flight began with the plane already in flight.


Disapprove!  I think everybody should have to work it out like I did as a teenager.  It was kind of like a puzzle game (flaps? trim? mix?  ) that led eventually into arcade-style thrills.  The payoff seemed huge doing it like that!


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## elbows (Aug 7, 2020)

alsoknownas said:


> Disapprove!  I think everybody should have to work it out like I did as a teenager.  It was kind of like a puzzle game (flaps? trim? mix?  ) that led eventually into arcade-style thrills.  The payoff seemed huge doing it like that!



I'm not really looking to repeat the befuddled experience I had as an 8 year old with a ZX Spectrum flight simulator! I'm not sure if I ever managed to takeoff in that thing in the end or not.






I dont think I'm cheating if I treat the 2020 flight sim as two different experiences in store for me, one where I'm only interested in the views and another where the sense of achievement actually counts for something.


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## teuchter (Aug 7, 2020)

First computer I had access to (amstrad pc1640?) had Chuck Yeager's flight sim. Spent a fair bit of time seeing how far into space i could get in an sr71 controlled with an amstrad mouse.


Edit - this!


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## Detroit City (Aug 7, 2020)

i'm going to have to buy a new laptop with all the bells and whistles just so i can play the new MSFS2020


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## Supine (Aug 7, 2020)

Will it run on a laptop? Check before you buy one


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## Bollox (Aug 7, 2020)

Nothing wrong with using it for a bit of sight seeing, the one type of usage I have never understood is flying multi hour airliner flights.....there are strange groups of people who join virtual airlines, take off, stick the plane on autopilot for 4 hours then go do something else returning later to land and proudly log their hours in the VA's website.......weird as fuck


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## Detroit City (Aug 7, 2020)

Supine said:


> Will it run on a laptop? Check before you buy one


i would assume so but i'll check, thanks


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## Buddy Bradley (Aug 16, 2020)

Tomorrow's the day! Xbox Game Store lets you pre-download it, I think.


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## alsoknownas (Aug 16, 2020)

Bollox said:


> Nothing wrong with using it for a bit of sight seeing, the one type of usage I have never understood is flying multi hour airliner flights.....there are strange groups of people who join virtual airlines, take off, stick the plane on autopilot for 4 hours then go do something else returning later to land and proudly log their hours in the VA's website.......weird as fuck


Shouldn't they have a co-pilot monitoring flight if they are going to leave controls unattended?


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## elbows (Aug 16, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Tomorrow's the day! Xbox Game Store lets you pre-download it, I think.



I thought it was out on the stroke of the 18th so those that go to bed before midnight have an additional sleep before they get their hands on it?


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## Buddy Bradley (Aug 16, 2020)

Is it? I thought it was at some point during the day, like 9am Eastern or thereabouts.


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## Buddy Bradley (Aug 17, 2020)

Released 11pm today for the UK.









						Microsoft Flight Simulator Release Times - Microsoft Flight Simulator
					

If you purchased the simulator via the Microsoft Store, you will be able to start downloading MSFS on a rolling release depending on your timezone. Please identify your country below to see what time…




					www.flightsimulator.com


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## elbows (Aug 17, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Released 11pm today for the UK.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cheers. If my brain is working properly those times are in UTC and we are on BST at the moment so the unlock time is still midnight.


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## Buddy Bradley (Aug 17, 2020)

Ah yeah, maybe you're right. The MSFS subreddit was quite amusing this morning, with how many staunchly proud Kiribati Islander sim-enthusiasts there turned out to be...


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## elbows (Aug 17, 2020)

Although I dont intend to buy proper joystick etc peripherals for this game, I did have a sniff around at what was available and at what sort of mind-boggling prices at the upper end. And was amused to see that stock levels are pretty much nil right now at all the price points I looked at.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2020)

alsoknownas said:


> Supposing one was thinking about indulging in a bit of both Flight Sim _and _Elite Dangerous (who needs real life anyway, right?) - is there much difference in the HOTAS requirements?
> 
> I'd be inclined to go for a sci-fi type number like this:
> 
> ...



That ‘Sci-Fi’ setup is actually a replica of the flight controls for the US Airforce A-10C Warthog. So it’s mainly used for combat simulators but it’s perfectly capable of controlling anything from a single prop up to a jet liner. Plus it better resembles a cyclical and collective (if you fancy helicopters) than a yoke and throttle quadrant does.


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## souljacker (Aug 17, 2020)

Recommended specs are surprisingly low. GTX970 and an i5? Might have to get this!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 17, 2020)

souljacker said:


> Recommended specs are surprisingly low. GTX970 and an i5? Might have to get this!


The articles I’ve read so far seem to suggest the most important requirement is having a fast net connection with no data caps...


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Shit as in looks nothing like it whatsoever.



Apparently the parts of the world where Bing has 3D data will be fairly accurate. Areas where it doesn’t will be similar but using generic buildings. So roads and landscape might be accurate-ish but the buildings won’t be.


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## Buddy Bradley (Aug 17, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Apparently the parts of the world where Bing has 3D data will be fairly accurate. Areas where it doesn’t will be similar but using generic buildings. So roads and landscape might be accurate-ish but the buildings won’t be.


I think if you're flying around at ground-level you're probably not a very serious simulator player.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I think if you're flying around at ground-level you're probably not a very serious simulator player.



Depends what you’re flying? For sure a 737 will mostly be just a clouds experience but what fun is to be had in a Cicare 8 above 5000 feet?


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## elbows (Aug 17, 2020)

London is apparently not very impressive unless you buy a 3rd party add-on from the store.

No matter how stnning various locations look, I expect there will be no shortage of issues and comedy imagery for people to post. It will be a bit like the time Apple launched their maps.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2020)

elbows said:


> London is apparently not very impressive unless you buy a 3rd party add-on from the store.
> 
> No matter how stnning various locations look, I expect there will be no shortage of issues and comedy imagery for people to post. It will be a bit like the time Apple launched their maps.



I own a lot of the UK Orbx stuff for xplane and apparently that gives a discount if buying again for MSFS2020. Which is nice.


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## alsoknownas (Aug 17, 2020)

souljacker said:


> Recommended specs are surprisingly low. GTX970 and an i5? Might have to get this!


Wot u dissing my rig for? (mines an i7 actually, but I was chuffed to see my GPU is still relevant!  )


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## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

Well it looks just as stunning as hoped.

It took 1 hour 37 minutes for me to download the 91GB before I could play, so by 1.37am I was ready to go. I was so tired by that point that I didnt even figure out what controller buttons wokred the throttle. I quickly changed all the settings for maximum ease and assistance. When looking at the map of my local area I was instantly distracted by the fact a 'Bedworth Airport' was showing up, even though Im not convinced it has an airstrip let alone an airport. So of course I had to try it. Having failed to figure out the throttle controls, I found a button to let the AI fly the plane. It ran out of runway before takeoff  For my next attempt I simply started in the air, flew around this part of the midlands for a while, and the I tried a chunk of Wales before going to bed. Wonderful stuff!

So yeah, lack of skill is no barrier to enjoying the sights of this game at all. The lack of suitable hard disk space, beefy CPU and graphics card are the main barrier to entry.


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## platinumsage (Aug 18, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Apparently the parts of the world where Bing has 3D data will be fairly accurate. Areas where it doesn’t will be similar but using generic buildings. So roads and landscape might be accurate-ish but the buildings won’t be.



Buckingham Palace looks like a 1980s university student accommodation block.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Buckingham Palace looks like a 1980s university student accommodation block.



Orbx sort that out if you’re willing to spend a bit extra.


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## editor (Aug 18, 2020)

Five star review in the Guardian 









						Microsoft Flight Simulator review – buckle in and see the world
					

PC (version tested)/Xbox One (coming soon) Microsoft/AsoboThe perfect lockdown antidote: get in a plane and see New York, or the Amalfi coast, or the Himalayas, in eye-searing detail




					www.theguardian.com


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## alsoknownas (Aug 18, 2020)

I'm actually irrationally irked at people starting in flight!


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## editor (Aug 18, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Orbx sort that out if you’re willing to spend a bit extra.



Absolutely astonishing.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Orbx sort that out if you’re willing to spend a bit extra.



when they mentioned an orbx improved version of the palace of westminster i thought they might have a smouldering crater but sadly not a bit of it


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## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

alsoknownas said:


> I'm actually irrationally irked at people starting in flight!



Mind your own business then, I spent my £60 and will fly how I please.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

Getting a Cessna 172 off the ground and keeping it in the air is a relatively painless experience. Sadly the same can’t be said for landing it.


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## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

I might have to go all the way back to the first time I saw 3D accelerated PC graphics to find an equivalent wow moment in my life when it comes to computer generated visual joys.

Despite my various comments promoting and defending very casual flying in this game, I would like to master the Icon A5 if I can find the time.

Even though I would have to shoot myself if I had one in real life, and their marketing stinks of the lifestyle crimes of the rich.


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## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

I was amused by the size of the wind turbine at Barmouth when I briefly visited the area in this sim at about 3am last night.

Checking out various wind-farms offshore of the UK is very much on my list of things to do but I wasnt expecting to see a big white one so soon! In real life according to my brief research the Barmouth one is actually a fairly modest one at a school by the beach.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

elbows said:


> I might have to go all the way back to the first time I saw 3D accelerated PC graphics to find an equivalent wow moment in my life when it comes to computer generated visual joys.



A much bigger wow moment will come if you plan on simming in VR.


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

And in terms of skills I'm actually really interesting in learning, figuring out where the hell I actually am by observing landmarks etc is probably top of the list. Obviously it doesnt help when the AI models building in a generic way, and when dealing with areas that lack really tall buildings. I spotted the MIRA vehicle test centre near here within just a few seconds of my first flight, but it was even easier than I was expecting to get totally lost and lose my bearings. So I should probably move away from my fairly nondescript part of the midlands and find somewhere with more obvious features to start with.


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> A much bigger wow moment will come if you plan on simming in VR.



Yes for programming/development reasons I had already pre-ordered the HP Reverb G2 (because I want that resolution so badly to motivate my own VR development project) so I nearly fell off my chair with joy when it ended up being the first VR headset to have official support announced for this game. I expect this will lead to much pain for my increasingly non-existent funds when nvidia announce their next GPU though.


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

This sim also reminds me that the pace of flying is a bit much for me at times, I would like hot air balloons, airships etc in this game!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

elbows said:


> And in terms of skills I'm actually really interesting in learning, figuring out where the hell I actually am by observing landmarks etc is probably top of the list. Obviously it doesnt help when the AI models building in a generic way, and when dealing with areas that lack really tall buildings. I spotted the MIRA vehicle test centre near here within just a few seconds of my first flight, but it was even easier than I was expecting to get totally lost and lose my bearings. So I should probably move away from my fairly nondescript part of the midlands and find somewhere with more obvious features to start with.



Following major roads can be a big help in visual flight rules also some planes offer an in flight moving map.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

elbows said:


> This sim also reminds me that the pace of flying is a bit much for me at times, I would like hot air balloons, airships etc in this game!



Helicopters


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Helicopters



Yes I will be surprised if they are not added at some point, and are going to be a far more popular request than most of the stuff I will come up with.


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Following major roads can be a big help in visual flight rules also some planes offer an in flight moving map.



Yes I imagine I will lean heavily on the maps to start with but intend to try to learn to cope without them more and more as a main challenge. I havent set foot in the Icon A5 yet but if I remember in game videos I watched of it properly, it has a very modest collection of basic controls but also a giant screen for the maps etc.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Following major roads can be a big help in visual flight rules



also rivers and the coast.

/captain-obvious


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

Yeah I'm going coastal later today 

In regards a comment I made relating to Apple Maps comedy errors the other day, so far I am happy enough with the first things I've spotted in this category such as the aforementioned Bedworth airport and also the railway bridge at Barmouth going into the sea


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Aug 18, 2020)

I'm having problems getting it to run reliably for some reason. 

My spec is pretty close to being the "ideal" one that they recommended, yet I can't fly for more than five minutes without the game crashing my PC completely.  Tried reinstalling/updating drivers, and fiddled with the settings (lower settings let me play for longer) but I can't see any particular reason why I can't run it perfectly fine with max settings.

Quite a lot of similar complaints on the subreddit, and the official forum has collapsed, so perhaps there will be some swift patches coming that address some of the issues people are having.


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

I suppose if that was happening to me I would run a series of gruelling CPU & GPU benchmarks to see if my system had an instsability issue that only showed up under the sorts of loads this game delivers. I think its rather CPU intensive so maybe check for temperature issues in that area. Could even try underclocking to rule out issues on that front.

Of course al of that will be a waste of time if its specific bugs or whatever that are causing your crash.

Oh yeah there were new nvidia drivers out yesterday as well.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

Is there plenty of room on your hard drive? Mine is pretty full and I worry that it’s going to need a huge amount of space to cache all the graphics it delivers over the net.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Is there plenty of room on your hard drive? Mine is pretty full and I worry that it’s going to need a huge amount of space to cache all the graphics it delivers over the net.


get an external hard drive and move all your files onto that


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I'm having problems getting it to run reliably for some reason.
> 
> My spec is pretty close to being the "ideal" one that they recommended, yet I can't fly for more than five minutes without the game crashing my PC completely.  Tried reinstalling/updating drivers, and fiddled with the settings (lower settings let me play for longer) but I can't see any particular reason why I can't run it perfectly fine with max settings.
> 
> Quite a lot of similar complaints on the subreddit, and the official forum has collapsed, so perhaps there will be some swift patches coming that address some of the issues people are having.


this is why late adopters like me like early adopters like you, so you can identify the things ms need to tweak


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> get an external hard drive and move all your files onto that



it’s mostly software taking up all the space though. Actually it’s an idea for me to get an external thunderbolt/usbC one I think.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Aug 18, 2020)

elbows said:


> I suppose if that was happening to me I would run a series of gruelling CPU & GPU benchmarks to see if my system had an instsability issue that only showed up under the sorts of loads this game delivers. I think its rather CPU intensive so maybe check for temperature issues in that area. Could even try underclocking to rule out issues on that front.
> 
> Of course al of that will be a waste of time if its specific bugs or whatever that are causing your crash.
> 
> Oh yeah there were new nvidia drivers out yesterday as well.


I installed the new driver release yesterday before starting the game, although I'm starting to wonder whether reverting to the previous version might not be a bad idea to try.

I don't think it's temperatures, I was running a monitor and they weren't going at all high when it was crashing. And I tried underclocking (or rather, I switched off the boosting system that automatically overclocks) but it didn't make any difference.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 18, 2020)

Updating drivers always seem to affect performance for me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 18, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I'm having problems getting it to run reliably for some reason.
> 
> My spec is pretty close to being the "ideal" one that they recommended, yet I can't fly for more than five minutes without the game crashing my PC completely.  Tried reinstalling/updating drivers, and fiddled with the settings (lower settings let me play for longer) but I can't see any particular reason why I can't run it perfectly fine with max settings.
> 
> Quite a lot of similar complaints on the subreddit, and the official forum has collapsed, so perhaps there will be some swift patches coming that address some of the issues people are having.


you weren't flying a 737 max were you?


----------



## alsoknownas (Aug 18, 2020)

elbows said:


> Mind your own business then, I spent my £60 and will fly how I please.


Do it properly you bugger .


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

All in good time, and never with a commercial airliner  Because the only thing I want to operate with that many controls is a synthesiser!


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2020)

Besides if you want me to take off you better have a word with Bedworth airport about getting a longer runway


----------



## alsoknownas (Aug 18, 2020)

No Harrier Jump Jet option then?


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2020)

I have successfully landed and taken off from water (the Exe estuary) in the Icon A5, as well having taken off from land, from Bedworth airport no less 

I still had all the aids apart from AI co-pilot turned on though, so not too much of a sense of achievement yet, but its another step or two closer.

Yesterday evening I flew into the sunset along the jurrasic coast, having left everything synced to actual real world time of day etc.

I need to go back to Bournemouth under brighter lighting conditions because I think I might have noticed that it doesnt know what beachhuts are and so planted a lot of small houses on the promenade 

I take back what I said about speed the other day, the Icon A5 is plenty slow enough, takes an age to travel a substantial distance.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 19, 2020)

elbows said:


> I have successfully landed and taken off from water (the Exe estuary) in the Icon A5, as well having taken off from land, from Bedworth airport no less
> 
> I still had all the aids apart from AI co-pilot turned on though, so not too much of a sense of achievement yet, but its another step or two closer.
> 
> ...



Great that you’re having lots of fun with it. It’s downloaded for me but I’ve yet to fire it up. There’s loads of srs twats whining about it not living up to expectations when comparing this brand new model just out of the gate with other more developed sims. Wanting to strangle it at birth because it isn’t P3D5 or XP11.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2020)

This is only for wealthy PC owners or will it be available on the mac at some point too?


----------



## fishfinger (Aug 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> This is only for wealthy PC owners or will it be available on the mac at some point too?


Windows and XBox One only.


----------



## Supine (Aug 20, 2020)

teuchter said:


> This is only for wealthy PC owners or will it be available on the mac at some point too?



Who makes it? They will want it exclusive too their platform.


----------



## tommers (Aug 20, 2020)

teuchter said:


> This is only for wealthy PC owners or will it be available on the mac at some point too?



The Apple Mac - workhorse of the proletariat.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 20, 2020)

tommers said:


> The Apple Mac - workhorse of the proletariat.


It's more that people with high spec macs usually have them for serious work purposes while people with high spec PCs just use them for gaming and things, and put coloured LEDs in them and so on.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 20, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It's more that people with high spec macs usually have them for serious work purposes while people with high spec PCs just use them for gaming and things, and put coloured LEDs in them and so on.


you dont need to have an expensive pc , I use shadow pay 1£4.99 for a month for a fully fledged high end windows pc, using xbox game pass for £10.99 a month and have got the new flight sim working.


----------



## elbows (Aug 20, 2020)

As usual its a lot to do with how much you are demanding in terms of visual quality and framerate as to what sort of CPU and GPU you can get away with.

If the visuals are the main attraction for you then its hard to get the best out of it without silly hardware. eg If the volumetric cloud quality matters to you a lot (it does me) then its an expensive business for sure.

I would dearly love to have ditched PCs and Windows completely years ago, but even when throwing money at external GPUs it is extremely difficult to achieve high end realtime 3D graphics with available mac hardware. Hard to get beyond uninspiring mid-range performance. I'm left looking years into the future for hope on that front, eg after years of their own ARM silicon development for their macos machines it is possible they could become competitive on that front. And the hackintosh approach to this stuff took a knock due to the current nvidia driver situation for macos beyond High Sierra.


----------



## steveseagull (Aug 20, 2020)

OOOf


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2020)

ORBX are claiming it was a technical issue that they will fix.



> We want to let you know that we are aware of an issue in the Landmarks London City Pack for Microsoft Flight Simulator.
> 
> This issue affects a small number of the 400+ landmarks available, where they do not match up with the quality of those already in-sim.
> 
> ...











						Landmarks London City Pack for MSFS
					

We want to let you know that we are aware of an issue in the Landmarks London City Pack for Microsoft Flight Simulator. This issue affects a small number of the 400+ landmarks available, where they do not match up with the quality of those already in-sim. A fix this is already in development, and...




					orbxsystems.com


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2020)

I had a close escape with that abomination of a pack, I nearly bought it straight away from the in-sim store but I had a brain fart and entered my microsoft account password wrongly.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> This is only for wealthy PC owners or will it be available on the mac at some point too?



You don’t buy a Mac to play games. In fact I’m not sure why anyone would want one at all nowadays but you’d definitely not be playing a game with Microsoft in the title on one.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

steveseagull said:


> OOOf




As if looking at Tower Bridge under a microscope is what happens in flight conditions. They should have known that ‘influencers’ would have been all over it though to boost their ratings.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

elbows said:


> I had a close escape with that abomination of a pack, I nearly bought it straight away from the in-sim store but I had a brain fart and entered my microsoft account password wrongly.



There’s fuck all wrong with it if used correctly. Tower Bridge looks a bit shit which they are fixing.


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There’s fuck all wrong with it if used correctly. Tower Bridge looks a bit shit which they are fixing.



I'm sorry but the developers of the sim set the standard for what people could expect, and no 3rd party developer should be charging people for add-ons that are out of step with the built in standard of visuals at close range. This game caters for a broader set of norms and expectations than your personal standards for how close people should be getting to stuff in a flight sim cover.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

elbows said:


> I'm sorry but the developers of the sim set the standard for what people could expect, and no 3rd party developer should be charging people for add-ons that are out of step with the built in standard of visuals at close range. This game caters for a broader set of norms and expectations than your personal standards for how close people should be getting to stuff in a flight sim cover.



Jesus. Have you just started simming right now?
Prior to this release of MSFS2020 I was simming over the UK in VR using XP11 and Orbx add ons and it was the most astonishing thing I’ve ever seen. ‘Real’ is a bit of a stretch but it felt like I was in a 3D movie yet able to control it. You’ll understand what I mean when VR comes to MSFS2020. There was problems of course, but you weigh up all that stuff with the experience. Perfect is impossible but we’re actually getting close. 
Ive been simming, on and off, since the release of MSX in 2006 and honestly those new to this who are moaning never knew they lived. Wait until you get VR and you will absolutely agree with what I say. You will also overlook some issues because if everything is absolutely perfect, the performance isn’t there yet with modern hardware. But it will be.


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2020)

I feel like we are talking at cross purposes. This wont be my first VR headset, and I have been developing stuff using game engines like Unity for 10 years.

I dont know how our wires got crossed. People are complaining because the Orbx London pack is not of the quality they expect from Orbx or from this particular flight sim. Due to the standards set with Orbx in their other products, and by this particular sim, which is excellent.

With my developer hat on, there are some possible technical reasons why something unexpected could have happened to the quality of this pack. Something might have got messed up with compression or any LOD system that might exist to swap models and textures out for lower quality versions when the camera is at a greater distance from them. Or it might not be a technical issue and they just tried to get away with stuff that was below expectations and their usual modern standards.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

elbows said:


> I feel like we are talking at cross purposes. This wont be my first VR headset, and I have been developing stuff using game engines like Unity for 10 years.
> 
> I dont know how our wires got crossed. People are complaining because the Orbx London pack is not of the quality they expect from Orbx or from this particular flight sim. Due to the standards set with Orbx in their other products, and by this particular sim, which is excellent.
> 
> With my developer hat on, there are some possible technical reasons why something unexpected could have happened to the quality of this pack. Something might have got messed up with compression or any LOD system that might exist to swap models and textures out for lower quality versions when the camera is at a greater distance from them. Or it might not be a technical issue and they just tried to get away with stuff that was below expectations and their usual modern standards.



I think they worried that making the models too high poly or detailed would affect the performance of the sim. Obviously it has been thrown back in their face but Central London is an area that will affect performance. This was also an issue in XP11 until they switched to the new Vulcan update of their engine.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

I should say that although the complaints are probably correct I feel it damages a niche company who are the best in the business of improving scenery in flight simulators and as such folk should cut them some slack.


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2020)

Well I still intend to throw money at them as soon as I hear that they fixed it. I'll just be slightly more inclined to actually look at review of packs before grabbing them.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

elbows said:


> Well I still intend to throw money at them as soon as I hear that they fixed it. I'll just be slightly more inclined to actually look at review of packs before grabbing them.



I’ve bought it (there was no discount for it but there was for London City and Leeds Bradford airports) and that is why I was shocked by the complaints. Then I saw the video. But I’m just seeing it whilst flying along the Thames, not through a microscope. And it all looks fine doing it like that. Maybe the same people complaining about the lack of poly count and res on some models will be the same ones complaining about reduced performance once it’s fixed. In fact, it will be.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

And you sound like the kind of person who understands that balancing act.


----------



## alsoknownas (Aug 21, 2020)

.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

alsoknownas said:


> .


Don’t be shy. Honestly it’s mostly amazing. Trying to configure controllers is a cunt unless you’re using an Xbox controller. That is bad for a simulator. But obviously they see a casual market.


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And you sound like the kind of person who understands that balancing act.



I know enough to know that I dont know enough about the specifics on this one. I dont know how far the performance bottlenecks with this sim are influenced by tech factors relating to these mesh models, I dont know what sort of Level of Detail (LOD) system has been used in this game engine. Because normally an LOD system is exactly what would be used to get the best of both worlds out of these things, where low-detail models are used when things are at a greater distance, for performance reasons, but the detail people want is there if you get close because at a certain camera point it automatically swaps out the low-detail model/textures for a higher quality one, and then vica versa when travelling away from said model.

The London pack is not currently in a state that lets me properly evaluate these things, but if I did a detailed performance comparison of the situation before and after they fix the quality issues then that may offer some strong clues.

Hell I am blathering on about this and I havent even flown around a city that has proper hand-crafted models yet! So probably as I study this more in future I will have something else to say, but it might bore everyone. I might do it anyway!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

elbows said:


> I know enough to know that I dont know enough about the specifics on this one. I dont know how far the performance bottlenecks with this sim are influenced by tech factors relating to these mesh models, I dont know what sort of Level of Detail (LOD) system has been used in this game engine. Because normally an LOD system is exactly what would be used to get the best of both worlds out of these things, where low-detail models are used when things are at a greater distance, for performance reasons, but the detail people want is there if you get close because at a certain camera point it automatically swaps out the low-detail model/textures for a higher quality one, and then vica versa when travelling away from said model.
> 
> The London pack is not currently in a state that lets me properly evaluate these things, but if I did a detailed performance comparison of the situation before and after they fix the quality issues then that may offer some strong clues.
> 
> Hell I am blathering on about this and I havent even flown around a city that has proper hand-crafted models yet! So probably as I study this more in future I will have something else to say, but it might bore everyone. I might do it anyway!



Hmm. But you did say that you were originally getting a VR headset to do a project of your own. By which I undertook the understanding that you understood the balancing act of the experience vs the capability. 
We still have to do that. In fact we always will have to.


----------



## alsoknownas (Aug 21, 2020)

My experience with VR (admittedly OR Dev Kit 2), and listening a bit to Carmack (boo, hiss!), lead me to believe that it is best for generating experiential presence, rather than trying to hone in on graphical detail.

I can't remember the details now, but I think all of the graphical requirements are quadrupled by the demands of VR.  You need super fast refresh rates and overlapping areas of resolve (where the two eyes cross), etc.  so the system doesn't usually end up resolving super high-fidelity graphics anyway.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 21, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You don’t buy a Mac to play games. In fact I’m not sure why anyone would want one at all nowadays but you’d definitely not be playing a game with Microsoft in the title on one.


I'd want another mac for mac osx. We use windows machines at work and I take my own mac in as windows is frankly unusable. Only reason I'd be tempted by a PC is to play this, but I'm thinking about getting a shadow tech one.





__





						Shadow Cloud Computing
					

Thanks to Shadow, transform all your devices into a powerfull high-end PC for all your uses: work, play, create




					shadow.tech


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 21, 2020)

sim667 said:


> I'd want another mac for mac osx. We use windows machines at work and I take my own mac in as windows is frankly unusable. Only reason I'd be tempted by a PC is to play this, but I'm thinking about getting a shadow tech one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Everything is going to be cloud based eventually I think. The big issue is how absolutely shit the UK internet service is. That’s the bottle neck. Until that works there’s zero point in these amazing services.


----------



## elbows (Aug 22, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Hmm. But you did say that you were originally getting a VR headset to do a project of your own. By which I undertook the understanding that you understood the balancing act of the experience vs the capability.
> We still have to do that. In fact we always will have to.



Yes but I really wasnt expecting that particular angle to come up in regards the Orbx story because I thought it was a simple tale of a cockup or unacceptable last-decade graphics quality rather than a clear demonstration that these sorts of graphics add-ons for this particular sim need to be below a certain quality for performance reasons.

VR perfornamce is a different issue. I cant judge that till that mode is available, but given how much this sim can already use CPUs and GPUs when running at Ultra settings, I know that I will end up having to lower some settings or drooling over the next high-end nvidia card thats announced. Whatever compromises are required for VR mode need not affect the game beyond the VR mode.

Maybe we can continue this strand of covnversation once the updated Orbx pack is available and then again once VR is available for this sim.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 22, 2020)

Once  VR support is online you simply won’t care. It is the best experience of anything you’ve ever seen in your life. For sure it can be improved. But honestly, you’ll be too marvelled to even think of it.


----------



## elbows (Aug 22, 2020)

alsoknownas said:


> My experience with VR (admittedly OR Dev Kit 2), and listening a bit to Carmack (boo, hiss!), lead me to believe that it is best for generating experiential presence, rather than trying to hone in on graphical detail.
> 
> I can't remember the details now, but I think all of the graphical requirements are quadrupled by the demands of VR.  You need super fast refresh rates and overlapping areas of resolve (where the two eyes cross), etc.  so the system doesn't usually end up resolving super high-fidelity graphics anyway.



Years went by and the resolutions that were deemed practical increased by virtue of several optimisations on the coding, graphics rendering side of things, and by the inevitable increase in higher end CPU and GPU performance.

The first gen and pre-consumer first gen dev kits had pretty bad screen resolutions, screen door effects, glare and less than optimal lenses compared to todays offerings. We are firmly into the territory where all sorts of visual detail can be represented and seen clearly in VR, at least in terms of what the headsets can deliver. Challenges still remain as to whether such levels of visual quality can be rendered quickly enough to provide the framerate VR requires by any particular PC with any particular game title. That hasnt stopped VR resolutions from going from the paltry 960x1080 res for each eye of the DK2, through to the 1080x1200 per eye offered at consumer launch, and on to the 1440x1600 per eye at a higher framerate that the Valve Index offers, and the 2160x2160 that I have in store for me when the HP Reverb G2 arrives.


----------



## elbows (Aug 22, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Once  VR support is online you simply won’t care. It is the best experience of anything you’ve ever seen in your life. For sure it can be improved. But honestly, you’ll be too marvelled to even think of it.



I wont be able to reobtain the original VR sense of wonder including 'wow I actually feel like I've been somewhere else' because that experience isnt new to me these days.

The wow factors that will still be fresh for me are hopefully to be found in future from having a VR headset resolution that mean I dont get distracted by blurry text and detail, obvious pixels etc. And crucially from having the right titles to play, which is of course where this flight simulator comes into the equation. I know it will be still able to wow me even if things like the volumetric cloud detail and other graphics quality settings have to be toned down a lot in order to achieve the right framerate for VR.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 22, 2020)

elbows said:


> I wont be able to reobtain the original VR sense of wonder including 'wow I actually feel like I've been somewhere else' because that experience isnt new to me these days.
> 
> The wow factors that will still be fresh for me are hopefully to be found in future from having a VR headset resolution that mean I dont get distracted by blurry text and detail, obvious pixels etc. And crucially from having the right titles to play, which is of course where this flight simulator comes into the equation. I know it will be still able to wow me even if things like the volumetric cloud detail and other graphics quality settings have to be toned down a lot in order to achieve the right framerate for VR.



Fair points but you are speculating. Honestly my time in VR with XP11 and Orbx are the finest experiences I’ve ever had. It’s impossible to describe actually.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Aug 22, 2020)

I think I fixed my constant crashing problem - flashed the BIOS last night (new release a couple of weeks ago) and now I can play MSFS on Ultra settings comfortably with no unexpected reboots (yet). Huzzah. (No real idea what in the BIOS could have been causing complete shutdowns, but prefer this solution to having to buy more RAM.)


----------



## NoXion (Aug 22, 2020)

teuchter said:


> This is only for wealthy PC owners or will it be available on the mac at some point too?



Wealthy? The recommended specs for MSFS2020 are quite low, actually. Plus Apple shit is overpriced as fuck.

Meanwhile there are various independent vendors (who don't engage in shitty anti-consumer practices), who can build you a PC of similar performance, with more customisation options, for a fraction of the price of the cheapest Apple desktop offering.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 22, 2020)

I flew tonight from the Grand Canyon to Las Vegas with a mate. In Cessna 152s. Took about 2 hours I think taking in some properly alien scenery over Nevada.


----------



## ffsear (Aug 23, 2020)

Can any tech ppl recommend a decent desktop pc that will run this well.  Budget is £700. Base unit only.  I've lost touch with GPUs and CPUs these days.. no idea what the numbers mean.


----------



## ffsear (Aug 23, 2020)

sim667 said:


> I'd want another mac for mac osx. We use windows machines at work and I take my own mac in as windows is frankly unusable. Only reason I'd be tempted by a PC is to play this, but I'm thinking about getting a shadow tech one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I gave this a go a year ago,  was no good.  Might of improved since..


----------



## teuchter (Aug 23, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Wealthy? The recommended specs for MSFS2020 are quite low, actually. Plus Apple shit is overpriced as fuck.
> 
> Meanwhile there are various independent vendors (who don't engage in shitty anti-consumer practices), who can build you a PC of similar performance, with more customisation options, for a fraction of the price of the cheapest Apple desktop offering.


A common misconception amongst those who don't really understand things and spend most of their work time using Microsoft Word. There's a good reason macs aren't used much for gaming - they are not aimed at teenagers in their bedrooms. They are popular with skilled professionals because they appreciate where value actually lies.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

ffsear said:


> Can any tech ppl recommend a decent desktop pc that will run this well.  Budget is £700. Base unit only.  I've lost touch with GPUs and CPUs these days.. no idea what the numbers mean.



Are you planning on building it yourself, or is this a pre-build you're after? Assembling it yourself will be cheaper, but I'm guessing that you haven't built one in a long time, if ever. There are companies who offer "off-the-self" PC builds, as well as more custom-built machines that you can build in a configurator on their website. The two that I've purchased from have been Overclockers UK and PC Specialist. Both of those companies can do Intel-based or AMD-based builds. I've been an Intel guy since the beginning, but AMD's prices are occasionally tempting, and would doubtless be helpful in helping you stick to the budget.

I suggest you play around with PC Specialist's AMD configurator, as their prices seem a bit better than Overclockers, and the configurator is more user-friendly. Here's the list of minimum, recommended and optimum specs for MSFS2020 for reference.


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## ffsear (Aug 23, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Are you planning on building it yourself, or is this a pre-build you're after? Assembling it yourself will be cheaper, but I'm guessing that you haven't built one in a long time, if ever. There are companies who offer "off-the-self" PC builds, as well as more custom-built machines that you can build in a configurator on their website. The two that I've purchased from have been Overclockers UK and PC Specialist. Both of those companies can do Intel-based or AMD-based builds. I've been an Intel guy since the beginning, but AMD's prices are occasionally tempting, and would doubtless be helpful in helping you stick to the budget.
> 
> I suggest you play around with PC Specialist's AMD configurator, as their prices seem a bit better than Overclockers, and the configurator is more user-friendly. Here's the list of minimum, recommended and optimum specs for MSFS2020 for reference.



Cheers for that.  So  AMD over Intel you'd say?


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## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

teuchter said:


> A common misconception amongst those who don't really understand things and spend most of their work time using Microsoft Word. There's a good reason macs aren't used much for gaming - they are not aimed at teenagers in their bedrooms. They are popular with skilled professionals because they appreciate where value actually lies.



I was talking about price-performance ratios, not gaming you snooty git. Apple market their products as premium items, and their prices are certainly matching up with that marketing. So it makes no sense for you to talk such arrant nonsense about "wealthy PC owners" when it's trivial to point out that there are PC builds offering similar performance at a lower cost than entry into the Apple club.


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## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

ffsear said:


> Cheers for that.  So  AMD over Intel you'd say?



I understand AMD can offer a better balance of price and performance, but I've never bought anything AMD so don't take my word for it. If it _is_ cheaper, go for it.


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## teuchter (Aug 23, 2020)

NoXion said:


> I was talking about price-performance ratios, not gaming you snooty git. Apple market their products as premium items, and their prices are certainly matching up with that marketing. So it makes no sense for you to talk such arrant nonsense about "wealthy PC owners" when it's trivial to point out that there are PC builds offering similar performance at a lower cost than entry into the Apple club.


How old is your current PC?


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## tommers (Aug 23, 2020)

You can put together a build using this site Choose A CPU

It compares prices for all the bits and tells you if they are incompatible. I would consider building it yourself, it's pretty straightforward - if a bit of an adventure. PCs are easily accessible and easily customisable, so you can specify exactly what you want and upgrade later once you have cash.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

AMD are better than Intel nowadays. And you’ll want an Nvidia GPU.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

Also if you can wait the next series of AMD processors and Nvidia GPUs are coming down the pipe. Which means prices will drop on eg the 2080.


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## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

teuchter said:


> How old is your current PC?



I got it in 2017. Why do you ask?


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## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Also if you can wait the next series of AMD processors and Nvidia GPUs are coming down the pipe. Which means prices will drop on eg the 2080.



How much are prices of the RTX 2080 likely to drop? Going here and searching for 2080 gives this as the cheapest one at £636.91, from Amazon (sigh). ffsear specified a budget of £700, is a big enough price drop likely to happen within a reasonable time-frame?

I was previously gonna go with a GTX 1660 for my next build, but I've just been playing around with a configurator, and with my budget I could get one with an RTX 2060, if I go for an i7 instead of an i9. If prices don't drop soon enough then that build looks good, less bottlenecked than my previous choices.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

NoXion said:


> How much are prices of the RTX 2080 likely to drop? Going here and searching for 2080 gives this as the cheapest one at £636.91, from Amazon (sigh). ffsear specified a budget of £700, is a big enough price drop likely to happen within a reasonable time-frame?
> 
> I was previously gonna go with a GTX 1660 for my next build, but I've just been playing around with a configurator, and with my budget I could get one with an RTX 2060, if I go for an i7 instead of an i9. If prices don't drop soon enough then that build looks good, less bottlenecked than my previous choices.



I haven’t been following prices too closely but I suspect the 3080 will cost roughly the same as a 2080 now with the 2080 dropping to what the 1080 is now, as a rough guide. The price will drop though, you can’t keep charging the same for older tech.


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## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I haven’t been following prices too closely but I suspect the 3080 will cost roughly the same as a 2080 now with the 2080 dropping to what the 1080 is now, as a rough guide. The price will drop though, you can’t keep charging the same for older tech.



Any idea what the likely time-frame on this is, though? I've heard rumours of parts shortages, although they are probably bollocks.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

Actually the 1080 still looks a bit pricey so maybe I’m talking bollocks. I think the 3080 is expected in q4. But yeah, Corona may have changed all that.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 23, 2020)

I'd be certainly looking at AMD Ryzen 5 if I had budget for a new gaming build over Intel.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 23, 2020)

teuchter said:


> How old is your current PC?



Mine was released in 2012. With the addition of a SSD and a RAM upgrade it still flies though everything I need. But I guess that's not the point you were trying to make.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 23, 2020)

NoXion said:


> I got it in 2017. Why do you ask?



Because he wants to make the point that you can use Macs for longer which makes them better value. Which holds some weight against cheap laptops you buy from PC World. Less so against a desktop. 

Apparently Apple are glueing the SSDs into their latest machines so if it fails (which it will) you have to replace the entire motherboard.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

This comes in under £700 if I was buying right now although without operating system which will add another tonne onto it.

At Computer Planet. Will be cheaper to build yourself.


Black ATX Tower Case
AMD Ryzen 5 3600X (6 x 3.8 GHZ - Turbo 6 x 4.4 GHZ)
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 X - Low Noise
Asus PRIME A320M-K (AMD B320) - 4xUSB3/2xUSB2 - (M-ATX)
16GB 2666MHz (1x16GB) - Lifetime Warranty (DDR4)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER - 6 GB - DVI/DP/HDMI - HD/4K/VR - Supports 3 Monitors
1 TB Seagate (1000 GB) SATA-III HDD 7200 RPM 64MB Cache
Motherboard Integrated HD Sound
Motherboard Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet Lan (Broadband Ready)
1.8 Metre UK Mains Power Cable
9 Working Days - Built, Tested, Installed & Ready To Go
2 Years Collect & Return Warranty


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

Forgot to add power supply


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 23, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> This comes in under £700 if I was buying right now although without operating system which will add another tonne onto it.
> 
> At Computer Planet. Will be cheaper to build yourself.
> 
> ...



Sounds good. Although I'd be inclined to go with a SSD before a better CPU cooler. Apparently the stock ones are OK.

Edit. Whilst not in the spirit of things you can buy a Windows 10 key of ebay for a tenner that works just fine.


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## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Because he wants to make the point that you can use Macs for longer which makes them better value. Which holds some weight against cheap laptops you buy from PC World. Less so against a desktop.
> 
> Apparently Apple are glueing the SSDs into their latest machines so if it fails (which it will) you have to replace the entire motherboard.



Yeah, I live in a dusty flat and I can get a bit lazy with the cleaning, so being able to replace components that choke up and die is kind of important to me. I've been considering adding dust filters to my next build.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 23, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Yeah, I live in a dusty flat and I can get a bit lazy with the cleaning, so being able to replace components that choke up and die is kind of important to me. I've been considering adding dust filters to my next build.



Well I'd be suprised if an SSD was a victim to dust, but yes, I take your point. The PC and PS4 could probably do with a clean.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Sounds good. Although I'd be inclined to go with a SSD before a better CPU cooler. Apparently the stock ones are OK.
> 
> Edit. Whilst not in the spirit of things you can buy a Windows 10 key of ebay for a tenner that works just fine.



Yeah I was trying to get it under budget and for a gaming PC you want the best GPU you can afford in it with the CPU coming a close second. I consider SSDs a bit of a luxury although yeah they're better and faster.


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## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Well I'd be suprised if an SSD was a victim to dust, but yes, I take your point. The PC and PS4 could probably do with a clean.



My previous machine was an entirely air-cooled affair, with a massive radiator on the CPU and a fan blowing air through it. That thing was an absolute magnet for dust, especially smoke. That's why I prefer liquid cooling systems now.


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## teuchter (Aug 23, 2020)

Wealthy PC owners just chuck away their computers every few years when they stop working. They can afford to. They can also afford to spend a lot of time playing games instead of earning a living. Hence, the PC market sees so much high spec disposable stuff. Also, money doesn't buy taste. Which is why you see all the multicoloured LEDs and ugly keyboards.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Wealthy PC owners just chuck away their computers every few years when they stop working. They can afford to. They can also afford to spend a lot of time playing games instead of earning a living. Hence, the PC market sees so much high spec disposable stuff. Also, money doesn't buy taste. Which is why you see all the multicoloured LEDs and ugly keyboards.



A mate of mine bought a Mac. It does look pretty. But £3k for something to surf the web, listen to music and watch films on seems a bit much and is more than what I spent on a laptop that runs flight simulator 2020.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 23, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Wealthy PC owners just chuck away their computers every few years when they stop working. They can afford to. They can also afford to spend a lot of time playing games instead of earning a living. Hence, the PC market sees so much high spec disposable stuff. Also, money doesn't buy taste. Which is why you see all the multicoloured LEDs and ugly keyboards.



Whilst I agree with the bit about taste I call bullshit on the other bits. People who have high end builds will upgrade not chuck away the whole machine.


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## teuchter (Aug 23, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Whilst I agree with the bit about taste I call bullshit on the other bits. People who have high end builds will upgrade not chuck away the whole machine.


NoXion chucked away his last high spec PC only about 3 years ago, it appears. Probably threw a few £50 notes into the bin after it, just for a laugh.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 23, 2020)

And in terms of _gaming_ Macs suffer the same as PCs. Gaming demands increase year on year, upgrading to keep up isn't something that Macs magically avoid.


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## NoXion (Aug 23, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Wealthy PC owners just chuck away their computers every few years when they stop working.



Maybe wealthy ones do, but so what? Wealthy people splurge money on all sorts of things. Like a $1000 monitor stand. You really do make yourself look like a fool by pursuing this.



> They can afford to. They can also afford to spend a lot of time playing games instead of earning a living.



I somehow manage to find the time to pursue my hobby, despite working a full-time job that has kept me me working throughout the coronavirus outbreak. You don't have to be wealthy to have time for hobbies.



> Hence, the PC market sees so much high spec disposable stuff.



Bollocks. I had a Logitech mouse that lasted for years, and might even still be fixable if I can be arsed to open it up.



> Also, money doesn't buy taste. Which is why you see all the multicoloured LEDs and ugly keyboards.



Taste is subjective. I think the black and RGB look fucking kicks the arse of that white shit.



teuchter said:


> NoXion chucked away his last high spec PC only about 3 years ago, it appears. Probably threw a few £50 notes into the bin after it, just for a laugh.



In fact I haven't thrown it away. My friends know who to get hold of if they want a PC for the low price of me fixing what's wrong with it.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 24, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I think I fixed my constant crashing problem - flashed the BIOS last night (new release a couple of weeks ago) and now I can play MSFS on Ultra settings comfortably with no unexpected reboots (yet). Huzzah. (No real idea what in the BIOS could have been causing complete shutdowns, but prefer this solution to having to buy more RAM.)



Strangely I had an unsolicited BIOS update from hp today and can now run the sim with ultimate settings. 
(I don’t care about ultimate but wanted to try it because I’m looking for the Nazca lines).


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## Buddy Bradley (Aug 29, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> (I don’t care about ultimate but wanted to try it because I’m looking for the Nazca lines).


Did you manage to find them? I tried the other day (using the coords from Wikimaps) but couldn't see them - not sure if I was too high or too low...


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## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Did you manage to find them? I tried the other day (using the coords from Wikimaps) but couldn't see them - not sure if I was too high or too low...



I saw some zigzags down some hills but no glyphs. Slightly northwards along the coast to the location marked with the red dot here.


E2a: hmm red dot is missing. Look for this map on Wikipedia page.



NoXion said:


> Any idea what the likely time-frame on this is, though? I've heard rumours of parts shortages, although they are probably bollocks.



Just been announced. Available end of Sept.






__





						Redirect Notice
					





					www.google.co.uk


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## Magnus McGinty (Sep 2, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Did you manage to find them? I tried the other day (using the coords from Wikimaps) but couldn't see them - not sure if I was too high or too low...



or alternatively take off from YAUCA and head southwards along the coast.


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## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> get an external hard drive and move all your files onto that



Just ordered this. Cheers for the suggestion.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Ex...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==


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## Magnus McGinty (Sep 25, 2020)

Not played this for a few weeks, but opened it (by accident, actually) today and there's a patch. Which is a mere 11GB. 😲


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## Buddy Bradley (Sep 25, 2020)

I've mostly been using it to visit famous landmarks and cities so far. Enjoyed flying around Cairo, Tokyo, etc.


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## Magnus McGinty (Sep 25, 2020)

The pyramids and Sphinx were a bit underwhelming for me. I find weird landscapes to be better then structural stuff.


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## Magnus McGinty (Sep 25, 2020)

Although that kind of stuff is better in helicopters (which I prefer).


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## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2020)

is there any way to get russian planes on this flight simulator, eg a tu-95 - or indeed american military aircraft like a b-52 or f-4 phantom?


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## Pickman's model (Sep 29, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Maybe wealthy ones do, but so what? Wealthy people splurge money on all sorts of things. Like a $1000 monitor stand. You really do make yourself look like a fool by pursuing this.


he's a great fool


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## NoXion (Sep 29, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> is there any way to get russian planes on this flight simulator, eg a tu-95 - or indeed american military aircraft like a b-52 or f-4 phantom?



I assume that would have to be done through mods, since the list of available aircraft in the standard retail version is surprisingly Spartan. Unless they're planning to release official DLC, but that will come later if it does.


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## souljacker (Sep 29, 2020)

There was a B52 and tu-95 on FSX so I expect people will build them eventually. The flight sim modding community is huge.


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## NoXion (Sep 29, 2020)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Actually the 1080 still looks a bit pricey so maybe I’m talking bollocks. I think the 3080 is expected in q4. But yeah, Corona may have changed all that.



I can get what I reckon is a pretty decent i7 machine for ~£1920. I was originally going to go for a GTX 1660, but the crossover between reaching my saving goals and dropping prices has meant that I can go for an RTX 2060 Super.



Spoiler: Full specs for those who care



CPU: Intel® Core™ i7 Eight Core Processor i7-10700K (3.8GHz) 16MB Cache

RAM: 32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2666MHz (2 x 16GB)

GPU: 8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2060 SUPER - HDMI, DP - VR Ready!

Primary Drive: 2TB PCS 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (520MB/R, 470MB/W)

Secondary Drive: 4TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 5400RPM, 256MB CACHE

Intel Optane Memory: 64GB INTEL® M10 OPTANE MEMORY

Optical Drive: 16x BLU-RAY WRITER DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW & SOFTWARE

PSU: CORSAIR 550W CV SERIES™ CV-550 POWER SUPPLY

Processor Cooling: Corsair H115i PRO Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 30, 2020)

Have you bought it yet? The more sensibly priced 3000 series cards will be coming out soon and suspect they will be worth a look.


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## mauvais (Sep 30, 2020)

Ooh, an optical drive, for backing up data to 2002


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## ruffneck23 (Sep 30, 2020)

NoXion said:


> I can get what I reckon is a pretty decent i7 machine for ~£1920. I was originally going to go for a GTX 1660, but the crossover between reaching my saving goals and dropping prices has meant that I can go for an RTX 2060 Super.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Id wait for the rtx3060 ti announcement coming in the next few weeks, the rtx 2060 arent bad cards,but the 3000 series will offer far better value for money. ( If you can get one of course...)


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2020)

NoXion said:


> I can get what I reckon is a pretty decent i7 machine for ~£1920. I was originally going to go for a GTX 1660, but the crossover between reaching my saving goals and dropping prices has meant that I can go for an RTX 2060 Super.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does that include coloured lights and coolant tubes with glowing green liquid going around?


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## NoXion (Sep 30, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Does that include coloured lights and coolant tubes with glowing green liquid going around?



Usually I don't bother with decorative stuff on my PCs, but since I have a bigger budget this time I thought, "why not get a couple of 50cm UVLED strips in there?"

Sorry to disappoint, but the liquid cooling system just has plain black mesh-jacketed pipes, although I think it has a small blue LED glowy bit on it.


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## Steel Icarus (Oct 3, 2020)

Couple of websites say my PC will run this, which is surprising. I mean I'm not buying it until it's dropped by 50%, like, but I assumed I might have to wait for a new PC in 18 months or so.


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 20, 2020)

Joystick shortages caused by this and Star Wars squadrons are starting to piss me off.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jan 18, 2021)

Every time I decide to have a play on MSFS it seems to need yet another 11GB download.


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## Buddy Bradley (Oct 20, 2021)

Just bought MSFS on Steam (after playing it a bit via Xbox Game Pass last year, but my sub lapsed) - it's 20% off at the moment, both on Steam and direct from Microsoft. I stopped playing it regularly, but now I think I need something a bit more peaceful and calming to play occasionally (instead of getting wound up about losing at Rocket League).



Pickman's model said:


> is there any way to get russian planes on this flight simulator, eg a tu-95 - or indeed american military aircraft like a b-52 or f-4 phantom?


They just announced that there will be a free GOTY edition released next month, with 5 new planes includes an F/A-18 Super Hornet. And there's an expansion coming out soon too with WW2-era air races.


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## souljacker (Oct 20, 2021)

It's a fantastic game but I wish it didn't need to update every time I play it. I like to jump on and have a quick fly around the pyramids or new York every now and then but there is invariably a half hour wait while it downloads something.

It also really needs a hotas. Makes a huge difference.


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## Buddy Bradley (Oct 21, 2021)

souljacker said:


> It's a fantastic game but I wish it didn't need to update every time I play it. I like to jump on and have a quick fly around the pyramids or new York every now and then but there is invariably a half hour wait while it downloads something.


Yup - you need to have a reminder to open it every week to check for updates so that it doesn't catch you unawares when you actually want to play.


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## Magnus McGinty (Apr 11, 2022)

I booted it up again the other day to another 10GB update. Left it overnight. There’s a helicopter you can get by some modding team that I’m looking forward to. Much preferred helis in XPlane.


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## Magnus McGinty (Apr 21, 2022)

Everyone given up on this? Get yourselves the airbus 145 mod. It’s in early access and about thirty quid. Helicopters piss on fixed wing and it’s fairly forgiving as far as helicopters go.


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## elbows (May 4, 2022)

I gave it a long rest while waiting for certain improvements to the visuals in prominent locations. And I also wanted a new controller but there was no prospect of stock of those at the time. So I put it to one side and forgot all about it. I will revisit it imminently and yes the prospect of helicopters is appealing, cheers.

I'm getting the thrustmaster airbus sidestick controller. Not really interested in flying an airbus but I wasnt about to get the warthog controller, didnt fancy most of the other joystick type controllers, and dont have a desk suitable for mounting a yoke type controller.


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## Magnus McGinty (May 4, 2022)

The helicopter in early access is an Airbus… 👍


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## _Russ_ (May 7, 2022)

Have you trie the Milviz PC-6?, great fun


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## Buddy Bradley (May 14, 2022)

Is anyone doing anything interesting with addons in MSFS? I open it up occasionally to fly around somewhere pretty, but it doesn't really feel like a 'game' that you want to keep going back to regularly really. I had some YouTube videos on "career mode" addons recommended recently though, maybe that's a way to augment the core experience, although they didn't look all that interesting...


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## Magnus McGinty (May 22, 2022)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Is anyone doing anything interesting with addons in MSFS? I open it up occasionally to fly around somewhere pretty, but it doesn't really feel like a 'game' that you want to keep going back to regularly really. I had some YouTube videos on "career mode" addons recommended recently though, maybe that's a way to augment the core experience, although they didn't look all that interesting...


On the home screen there's training and challenges without you having to spend a penny. But yeah, the purpose of those kinds of add-ons is to put meaning onto the sandbox for those that want that.


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## Magnus McGinty (Nov 3, 2022)

Helicopters coming in the next update. I’m already using the Airbus H145 though. 
I’m guessing by how dead this thread is that most people got bored. It’s a simulator not a game. If you want that you really need to buy the study level 3rd party add ons rather than the gamey stuff that comes out of the box.


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## sim667 (Nov 3, 2022)

I want to get it but I don’t want to fork out for the hardware


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## WhyLikeThis (Nov 4, 2022)

I’m guessing an xbox controller is not enough.


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## elbows (Nov 4, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> I’m guessing an xbox controller is not enough.


Well it depends how deep you want to go. I was fine with an xbox controller initially, when just pissing around with a small plane in a rather casual way.


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## Magnus McGinty (Nov 4, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> I’m guessing an xbox controller is not enough.


If you’re playing it in a gamey way it’s enough. Ideally you’d want at least a HOTAS setup, about 75 quid at the cheaper end. 









						BL-RAPTH+MAC, FR-TEC Raptor Mach-1 joystick and | Box.co.uk
					





					www.box.co.uk


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