# Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter "Our mothers our fathers"



## Anudder Oik (May 25, 2013)

News of a 14 million euro german mini-series that tackles head on the involvement of germans in atrocities during the second world war has been receiving good reviews and boasts high production values after being 10 years in the making.

It's the story of five fiends and what happens to them as the war progresses so expect sprawling narrative and band of brothers type combat scenes. It will be called *Generation war* once it reaches our screens.

It debunks the myth that only SS units committed atrocities.

German media are calling it "The cultural event of the year", "a turning point" and a "scandal".

More atonement for germany then...


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## Maurice Picarda (May 27, 2013)

Fiends?


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## Greebo (May 27, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Fiends?


 
Freudian slip.


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## Anudder Oik (May 27, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Fiends?


 
Well, you know what I mean.

Anyway, I'll let you know what it's like as I'm gonna start watching it tonite...


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## spitfire (May 27, 2013)

Where is it available?


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## Manter (May 27, 2013)

Where can you stream (or buy!) it in the UK? Heard loads about it, but haven't been able to find it. Amazon say it hasn't been released on DVD in Germany yet, let alone here (I can do German do I am not looking for subtitled/dubbed)


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## goldenecitrone (May 27, 2013)

It was on ZDF. Appears to have finished in April.


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## goldenecitrone (May 27, 2013)

Only found this documentary about the making of the programme. Would love to stream it if possible. 

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/kana...1863858/Unsere-Mütter,-unsere-Väter:-Doku-(2)


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## Maurice Picarda (May 27, 2013)

Programme polarised pundits, peeving Poles particularly: partisans (portrayed poorly) protesting profusely.


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## Greebo (May 27, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Programme polarised pundits, peeving Poles particularly: partisans (portrayed poorly) protesting profusely.


 
Could you've contrived any more concatenating consonants?


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## Anudder Oik (May 27, 2013)

There aren't any Poles in it. I've seen the first episode and they are on the russian front after passing thru the Ukrain.

It's a very moving production.

I'm in Spain and got it off the Torrents in german and then downloaded english subtitles.


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## Belushi (May 27, 2013)

It would be good if BBC4 screened it.


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## Casually Red (May 28, 2013)

more importantly will there be any riding in it ?


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## Maurice Picarda (May 28, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> There aren't any Poles in it. I've seen the first episode
> .


 
So, there aren't any in the first episode.


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## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

Meant to watch this over the weekend but _events dear boy, events..._

Will get cracking on it tonight hopefully.


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## Manter (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Meant to watch this over the weekend but _events dear boy, events..._
> 
> Will get cracking on it tonight hopefully.


where did you find it?  I am with @goldenecitrone- I can only find the documentary


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## butchersapron (May 28, 2013)

On a private torrent tracker i'm afraid and have no spare invites - sorry!


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## Manter (May 28, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> On a private torrent tracker i'm afraid and have no spare invites - sorry!


np, will keep looking.... it'll pitch up at some point


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## rekil (May 28, 2013)

Manter said:


> Where can you stream (or buy!) it in the UK? Heard loads about it, but haven't been able to find it. Amazon say it hasn't been released on DVD in Germany yet, let alone here (I can do German do I am not looking for subtitled/dubbed)


PM sent.


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## Anudder Oik (May 28, 2013)

Just watched second episode. Awesome, the developement of the characters is painstakingly well achieved. They come to represent some of the diverse mentalities of that time. The director has done this quite naturally. And the shift in the narrative as the war progresses and they change with it is also incredibly well done. Powerful stuff.

My only gripe is that it's up to 1943 and Berlin doesn't seem to have been bombed yet.

On a different note some poles have appeared in it, but only a few mind.


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## Maurice Picarda (May 28, 2013)

Come now, this grovelling is unseemly. It was an honest mistake on your part.


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## sim667 (May 30, 2013)

I'd really like to dl this too if anyone knows of its whereabouts


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## sim667 (Aug 4, 2013)

Finally got round to watching this. Really enjoyed it as a series, I would like to watch it again.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2013)

Just finished watching this. It's very very good. I liked the way they captured the two soldiers' growing feelings of having been lied to and betrayed, the sense of an entire country that had effectively become delusional and the dissonance this creates when the real world intervenes in the narrative.

I'm not sure why the Poles got so upset about it. Like pretty much everyone else in the show some of them come across as stupid and brutal, some noble and fearless, most of them somewhere in between and all of them completely fucked up by events beyond their control.


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## Fuchs66 (Aug 5, 2013)

I quite liked it.


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## Mr Smin (Aug 5, 2013)

Anudder Oik said:


> There aren't any Poles in it. I've seen the first episode and they are on the russian front after passing thru the Ukrain.
> 
> It's a very moving production.
> 
> I'm in Spain and got it off the Torrents in german and then downloaded english subtitles.


 
How were the subs? (some of the fan/amateur subs I have seen have made me give up on the film).


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## sim667 (Aug 6, 2013)

Mr Smin said:


> How were the subs? (some of the fan/amateur subs I have seen have made me give up on the film).



I've got some good, but not brilliant subs if anyone needs

Finding subs for this was a bastard


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## Anudder Oik (Aug 7, 2013)

Can't help you on subs as I ended up downloading them is spanish. There's gotta be some out there in english.


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## dilute micro (Aug 7, 2013)

WW2 popularized pizza all over the world though.


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## sim667 (Aug 7, 2013)

Mine were good enough, just with a few typos.


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## treelover (Aug 8, 2013)

This sounds very good, hope it comes to non pay uk tv(bbc)

in the U.S it is broken down into 6 45 mins episodes


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## Mr Smin (Sep 5, 2013)

Not a spoiler I promise; In the closing credits it shows the names of the characters and the years they were born and died which I take to indicate it is based on real people, but I can't find anything about this on the (English language) internet. Does anyone know any more?

ps
Wikipedia says it's coming to BBC2 at the end of the year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_War


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## butchersapron (Sep 5, 2013)

If i remember correct it says right at the start of the first episode that it's entirely fictional. The bit at the end was just a bit of pointless closure i think.


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## Santino (Apr 26, 2014)

On BBC2 now.


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## weltweit (Apr 26, 2014)

Santino said:


> On BBC2 now.


Great, watching now ....
Chance to brush up my deutsch


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Apr 26, 2014)

> When _Generation War _was first broadcast as a miniseries in Germany in March of last year, it was called "Our Mothers, Our Fathers." That original title makes clear just how much is at stake when Germans make a film about World War II. Our mothers and fathers—or, for younger Germans today, grandfathers and even great-grandfathers—what were they up to in the years 1939-45? The rest of the world sees those Germans, the ones who conquered Europe and committed genocide, as the monsters of the twentieth century. But how can one's own mother and father be monsters? Aren't there other stories to be told, and other ways to tell the stories, that would allow Germans to at least have some pity for their forebears—maybe even some degree of pride?
> 
> To these questions, _Generation War_, now showing in American theaters, gives the most reassuring answers. Our mothers and fathers, it turns out, were not Nazis, or anti-Semites, or war criminals. Such people did exist in Nazi Germany—that much of the truth the film admits. But _Generation War_ focuses on five protagonists who are too young, innocent, and—not least—physically attractive to be thought of as evil. As the story flings them to and fro on the Eastern Front, they emerge rather as the victims of their society, almost as much as the Poles, Russians, and Jews whose slaughter forms the background to their adventures and romances. Without ever whitewashing the crimes of Nazi Germany, _Generation War_ manages to cordon them off, to make them someone else's responsibility, someone else's heritage. No wonder it was a huge ratings success on German television.



http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...man-series-about-ww-ii-turns-it-entertainment

I'll have to check it out when it's released on Netflix.


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## weltweit (Apr 26, 2014)

The subtitles are not very good .... not always honest translations ..


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## not-bono-ever (Apr 26, 2014)

this is not a lighthearted romp is it ?

fuckin hell


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## not-bono-ever (Apr 26, 2014)

that was decent. will tune in next week.


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## weltweit (Apr 26, 2014)

not-bono-ever said:


> that was decent. will tune in next week.


Yes, me too, if I remember


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## goldenecitrone (Apr 26, 2014)

weltweit said:


> The subtitles are not very good .... not always honest translations ..



Really? I listened and read and didn't notice any glaring differences. What struck you particularly? Enjoyed it mostly. End was a bit daft.


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## weltweit (Apr 27, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Really? I listened and read and didn't notice any glaring differences. What struck you particularly? Enjoyed it mostly. End was a bit daft.


When the girl and the German officer were post coital he said to her something like .. Stick to what you understand (wass Sie verstehst).. the sub titles said "do what you are good at!" not the same at all.

It was the only example I noticed because I was trying not to notice the subtitles instead to concentrate on how much German I could remember.


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## goldenecitrone (Apr 27, 2014)

weltweit said:


> When the girl and the German officer were post coital he said to her something like .. Stick to what you understand (wass Sie verstehst).. the sub titles said "do what you are good at!" not the same at all.
> 
> It was the only example I noticed because I was trying not to notice the subtitles instead to concentrate on how much German I could remember.



Right. No major differences then.


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## weltweit (Apr 27, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Right. No major differences then.


I think that shows inaccuracy. And if there was one, there were probably others.


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## goldenecitrone (Apr 27, 2014)

weltweit said:


> I think that shows inaccuracy. And if there was one, there were probably others.



So on the basis of one trivial difference you're happy to state it was riddled with translation errors. Fair enough.


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## weltweit (Apr 27, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> So on the basis of one trivial difference you're happy to state it was riddled with translation errors. Fair enough.


Now you are putting words into my mouth. That wasn't what I wrote!


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## Greebo (Apr 27, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> So on the basis of one trivial difference you're happy to state it was riddled with translation errors. Fair enough.


Not so much errors as distorting the voices - similar to a working class person saying one thing in perfectly clear English and a social worker writing it down in a higher register (using more formal words and phrase structure) to convey more or less the same meaning but not carrying the same depth of feeling, let alone the same meaning.  Subtitling tends to provide a loose (rather than literal) translation, but there's quite a gap between making something flow and simplifying most of it to the language used in the Sun.

Back to the OP:  Only realised that programme was on halfway through, but I'll definitely watch it next week.  FWIW I usually find subtitles distracting, so I might try to rig up something to cover the lowest bit of the screen.


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## tony.c (Apr 27, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Yes, me too, if I remember


I watched it on catch up (pay) tv, so I would think it's on bbc I-player, but I haven't checked. It was quite good.


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## yield (Apr 27, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042v5xl/episodes/player


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## goldenecitrone (Apr 27, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Not so much errors as distorting the voices - similar to a working class person saying one thing in perfectly clear English and a social worker writing it down in a higher register (using more formal words and phrase structure) to convey more or less the same meaning but not carrying the same depth of feeling, let alone the same meaning.  Subtitling tends to provide a loose (rather than literal) translation, but there's quite a gap between making something flow and simplifying most of it to the language used in the Sun.



As a general problem with subtitling I'd agree. However, in this instance weltweit is claiming the translation was not faithful to the actual dialogue in German. Having listened to it and read it at the same time, I don't agree. I thought it was pretty close.


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## Mrs Miggins (Apr 27, 2014)

Watched episode 1 last night and I thought it was excellent. Some truly devastating moments and really well drawn characters. We've seen it all before in a way but not from the German perspective and it's definitely not shying away from the horror and brutality. Can't wait to watch the rest of it. And I wish my German was still good enough to understand it without the subtitles but alas....


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## sim667 (Apr 27, 2014)

I noticed all three were on my pleb ride as generation war. I'm really glad this is getting broadcast in the uk, it really is an excellent series


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## Poot (Apr 27, 2014)

I feel totally wrung out after the first episode. I was totally living that. Don't want to put any spoilers in, but some of the actions of some of the characters were heartbreakingly disappointing. I can't wait until next week, I especially want to know what's going to happen to Viktor, though I think I can guess 

The subtitles were inaccurate but didn't spoil it for me.


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## weltweit (Apr 27, 2014)

Poot said:


> .. The subtitles were inaccurate but didn't spoil it for me.


Good, I wasn't alone in thinking that. It didn't spoil it for me either, I will be watching the next episode. Which bits made you notice the subtitles being inaccurate Poot?


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## Poot (Apr 27, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Good, I wasn't alone in thinking that. It didn't spoil it for me either, I will be watching the next episode. Which bits made you notice the subtitles being inaccurate Poot?


Occasionally the German was either slightly incorrect (when spoken by the Ukrainian) or less formal than the subtitles suggested. I could be wrong, I haven't spoken or heard German for years. But they seemed to be in more formal/correct language in English iykwim. But I'm no expert.


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## Belushi (Apr 27, 2014)

Just watched the first episode, very good so far.


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## sim667 (Apr 28, 2014)

I don't think the subs were perfect on the torrents I had either.

Nowhere near as bad as naerturvtkin.


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## Onket (Apr 28, 2014)

I missed the start and end of this but thought that what I saw was very good. Will probably watch it again properly on iplayer.


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## trabuquera (Apr 28, 2014)

Liked it a lot and it is what it is, but I was frustrated by how little we got into these characters' pre-war heads, iyswim. Is it really plausible that as late as 1941 this group were happily mingling in Berlin (and/or that there was little sign of shortage/austerity on the home front?). They all seemed kind of Famous Five - fakey jolly innocent - at the start. It seemed a bit as if they'd all been asleep up to that point, so the narrtive could then have them go "oh, crap, it's war and stuff is going to change dramatically now". Maybe this is a deliberate dramatic device (?perhaps to combat all of the "it's not our fault, we never knew what was really going on until it was too late" excuses about the War once circulated in Germany?) but I felt things were all being telescoped together a bit.  I'll still certainly watch the rest of it though.


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## Gavin Bl (Apr 28, 2014)

Really enjoyed it, and will be definitely watching the series - agree with the comments above though, would a German officer who had served in Poland be shocked at the execution of civilians (dunno - genuine question). Some more back story would be good, perhaps in later episodes....?

I agree that the apparent innocence of the characters at the start is probably a device to show how quickly and deeply ordinary people can plumb the depths, as happened in the first episode. Yeah, a bit telescoped is the right word.


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## treelover (Apr 29, 2014)

Missed it on Saturday, but will watch it on iplayer hd, there was very little publicity for this on the BBC for such a major series, I wonder why that was.

is it repeated anywhere on terrestrial tv?


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## goldenecitrone (Apr 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> Missed it on Saturday, but will watch it on iplayer hd, there was very little publicity for this on the BBC for such a major series, I wonder why that was.
> 
> is it repeated anywhere on terrestrial tv?



I saw 3 or 4 trailers for it over the last 2 weeks even though I don't watch TV much.


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## Greebo (Apr 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> Missed it on Saturday, but will watch it on iplayer hd, there was very little publicity for this on the BBC for such a major series, I wonder why that was. <snip>


It'll probably be out on dvd soon.


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## sim667 (Apr 29, 2014)

I have it download with subs if anyone needs.


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## weltweit (May 3, 2014)

Reminder, this is on again tonight, 21:30 - 23:00 BBC2


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## weltweit (May 3, 2014)

Bloody snooker !


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## Greebo (May 3, 2014)

starting now


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## treelover (May 3, 2014)

The first episode has gone from iplayer already, and hadn't finished it

anyone know any decent , er, sites where I can watch it?, recorded ep2.


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## weltweit (May 4, 2014)

Getting a bit grim for the main protagonists.


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## Gavin Bl (May 4, 2014)

pretty compelling stuff yesterday - still have that feeling that its being done at too much of a gallop - just thinking what a masterpiece it could have been if it was 8-12 episodes with a longer sweep to back before the war.


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## Greebo (May 4, 2014)

Gavin Bl said:


> pretty compelling stuff yesterday - still have that feeling that its being done at too much of a gallop - just thinking what a masterpiece it could have been if it was 8-12 episodes with a longer sweep to back before the war.


Given the "Heimat" treatment (a long series but worth watching with 3 or 4 "seasons"), you mean?


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## Gavin Bl (May 4, 2014)

not seen Heimat, but a single series, 8,10,12 whatever episodes


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## Belushi (May 4, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Given the "Heimat" treatment (a long series but worth watching with 3 or 4 "seasons"), you mean?



That is what I was hoping it would be, as it is it's good but not much depth.


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## Ted Striker (May 5, 2014)

This is really good 

On the off chance the 3rd episode is available, would love a link etc.


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## treelover (May 5, 2014)

Yes, really need a er, link to the first episode?


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## gosub (May 6, 2014)

treelover said:


> Yes, really need a er, link to the first episode?


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## sim667 (May 6, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Given the "Heimat" treatment (a long series but worth watching with 3 or 4 "seasons"), you mean?


 
I downloaded heimat as I liked the look of it, but the subs and video were all over the shop, so I gave up trying to sort it out


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## Greebo (May 6, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I downloaded heimat as I liked the look of it, but the subs and video were all over the shop, so I gave up trying to sort it out


It's on my wishlist - one of the advantages of having a birthday near christmas.


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## sleaterkinney (May 6, 2014)

It's very good.


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## mystic pyjamas (May 7, 2014)

I have not often seen films/dramas about WW2 from a German perspective but this is one that's certainly a cut above it's American and British equivalents.


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## weltweit (May 7, 2014)

mystic pyjamas said:


> I have not often seen films/dramas about WW2 from a German perspective but this is one that's certainly a cut above it's American and British equivalents.


If you like this, so from a German perspective, you would probably love "Das Boot"..


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## mystic pyjamas (May 7, 2014)

weltweit said:


> If you like this, so from a German perspective, you would probably love "Das Boot"..


I've seen "Das Boot" and yes, it was a good if somewhat claustrophobic film.


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## butchersapron (May 7, 2014)

I thought it was shallow rubbish (this series). If it had been produced over here it would be laughed at for a) it's use of symbolism in place of characterisation and hence b) edits in favour of plot and massive situations and c) really bad acting. Nothing that you need was there - tight narrative, interesting main characters...


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## Gavin Bl (May 7, 2014)

Do you reckon that a) and b) are a product of what others have said above about it not having enough time to develop?  Must admit the situations where the two brothers ended up towards the end were so atypical as to be ridiculous.

I'm never sure with foreign stuff how much is lost in translation / differing tastes, etc..

Not sure either how much of it being interesting is just the novelty of a German point of view.


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## weltweit (May 7, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I thought it was shallow rubbish (this series). If it had been produced over here it would be laughed at for a) it's use of symbolism in place of characterisation and hence b) edits in favour of plot and massive situations and c) really bad acting. Nothing that you need was there - tight narrative, interesting main characters...


Hmm, I like it so far, the 5 stories, I buy into the characters, their sacrifices, their dilemmas, the choices they make and their intersection with the bigger themes of the time. I have to say I haven't really noticed bad acting, perhaps I am concentrating on keeping up with the German though.


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## butchersapron (May 7, 2014)

Gavin Bl said:


> Do you reckon that a) and b) are a product of what others have said above about it not having enough time to develop?  Must admit the situations where the two brothers ended up towards the end were so atypical as to be ridiculous.
> 
> I'm never sure with foreign stuff how much is lost in translation / differing tastes, etc..
> 
> Not sure either how much of it being interesting is just the novelty of a German point of view.


Yes/no - it could just be longer shallowness. I just don't know where to go with this stuff. I would call it an itv style attempt at history - in terms of actors and production. Better stuff can be made with that funding. (sorry everyone)


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## Gavin Bl (May 7, 2014)

I have really enjoyed it, and I'll definitely see it to the end - but I can see everything you're saying has a validity to it.

Like weltweit, the acting seems fine - as far as its possible to determine bad acting in a foreign language!


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## butchersapron (May 7, 2014)

Gavin Bl said:


> I have really enjoyed it, and I'll definitely see it to the end - but I can see everything you're saying has a validity to it.
> 
> Like weltweit, the acting seems fine - as far as its possible to determine bad acting in a foreign language!


Sorry gav i thought it had finished - apols, i'm not going to spoil stuff


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## Gavin Bl (May 7, 2014)

Just don't tell me who wins in the end, ok?


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## Sir Belchalot (May 8, 2014)

The last episode gets a bit dafter at times but it's a great series if you suspend your disbelief.


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## treelover (May 9, 2014)

my dvr had messed up both episodes and iplayer takes it off after a week now!


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## tony.c (May 11, 2014)

Greebo said:


> It'll probably be out on dvd soon.


Bluray out tomorrow. £16.25 on Amazon. Probably cheaper soon secondhand.


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## weltweit (May 11, 2014)

Damn, it was on last night wasn't it, and I was watching Eurovision instead !!

Is there any where I can get to see last night's episode online?


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## tony.c (May 11, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Damn, it was on last night wasn't it, and I was watching Eurovision instead !!
> Is there any where I can get to see last night's episode online?


It will be on bbc iplayer. I recorded it, will watch later.


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## Onket (May 11, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Damn, it was on last night wasn't it, and I was watching Eurovision instead !!


One for the memoirs.


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## weltweit (May 11, 2014)

tony.c said:


> It will be on bbc iplayer. I recorded it, will watch later.


Thanks, think I have found it now .... good stuff


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## Betsy (May 11, 2014)

Anudder Oik said:


> News of a 14 million euro german mini-series that tackles head on the involvement of germans in atrocities during the second world war has been receiving good reviews and boasts high production values after being 10 years in the making.
> 
> It's the story of five fiends and what happens to them as the war progresses so expect sprawling narrative and band of brothers type combat scenes. It will be called *Generation war* once it reaches our screens.
> 
> ...



 I'm not reading any more of this thread yet because I haven't seen part 3 (was watching Eurovision ) but I am enjoying (?) it enormously... 
Odd isn't it how when the 'enemy' is humanised' how you want them to win.


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## goldenecitrone (May 11, 2014)

Friedhelm bumping into Viktor in the woods in Poland. A coincidence too far? The debate after was interesting, the producer getting a lot of stick for not making a completely accurate historical reproduction of the friendships of the main characters and overemphasising the anti-semitism of some of the Polish resistance.


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## weltweit (May 11, 2014)

Just watched the end. Didn't realise there was a debate afterwards, didn't see that on the iPlayer.

Anyhow, I thought it was fiction no?


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## Greebo (May 11, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Friedhelm bumping into Viktor in the woods in Poland. A coincidence too far? The debate after was interesting, the producer getting a lot of stick for not making a completely accurate historical reproduction of the friendships of the main characters and overemphasising the anti-semitism of some of the Polish resistance.


The debate after the final episode was more interesting in some ways than the series itself.  Accessibility vs accuracy is always going to be a difficult balance.  If it gets people more interested in what really happened that's fine, but not if they treat it as source material.

Okay, a lot of the things could have happened as portrayed (there are probably enough anecdotes to back that up), but not all of them to those five main characters.  As one of the people said (in the debate), starting the series in 1941 by which time young people of that age would have more or less grown up surrounded by nazification makes easy and sustained friendship between Jews and other Germans a lot less probable but not impossible.



weltweit said:


> Just watched the end. Didn't realise there was a debate afterwards, didn't see that on the iPlayer.
> 
> Anyhow, I thought it was fiction no?


Fiction based on fact.  Or at least based the compiled experiences of people in Germany, Poland, and on the Eastern Front.  As factual as "Papillon" (a book and film based on a lot of things, most of which really had happened, but not all to one man).


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## goldenecitrone (May 11, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Just watched the end. Didn't realise there was a debate afterwards, didn't see that on the iPlayer.
> 
> Anyhow, I thought it was fiction no?



It was a work of fiction. The historians argued that it would have been almost impossible for the four Germans to be meeting up with a German Jewish friend in Berlin in 1941 and appearing so naive as to what was happening around them.


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## Mrs Miggins (May 11, 2014)

If you've enjoyed this, I'd like to recommend to you to a Danish film "Flame and Citron". By far the most amazing war film I've ever seen. This has been good but that film is just brilliant.


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## AnnaKarpik (May 11, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> It was a work of fiction. The historians argued that it would have been almost impossible for the four Germans to be meeting up with a German Jewish friend in Berlin in 1941 and appearing so naive as to what was happening around them.



I was not nearly as impressed with the historians in that debate as I was with the producer. Seemed to me that the historians wanted a depiction of their views of wartime Germany and Germans whereas the series was a drama based on the composite experiences of real live people. It didn't seem odd to me that individuals could put aside state propaganda to stick by their friends (remain in contact with a jew), or disobey the law. The historians seemed to think that the characters depicted should have had the breadth of knowledge and experience that modern historians have and should not have been allowed to be idiot, carefree youngsters. 

I found myself asking why this depiction of WWII was being discussed by a bunch of historians; was Colditz or The Great Escape or Hogan's Heroes required to be historically accurate?


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## butchersapron (May 11, 2014)

But it seemed odd that people who have researched the period on some detail felt it unlikely (the key bit is _1941_, not _jew_) to be likely?


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## Gavin Bl (May 11, 2014)

Well, it was still worth watching but the coincidences just became absurd, the whole thing around the jewish character relating to the wider fate of the jews was not great.


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## trabuquera (May 12, 2014)

I got absolutely the opposite impression from the debate - lots of reasonable points from the historians and rather too much huff and puff in response from the producer. Some of the other complaints aired in the  inserts (ie Polish ambassador banging on about how the German characters were always portrayed as clean and scrubbed and Poles as dirty and antisemitic) were a bit bonkers but given the history involved you'd think a German TV producer might be a bit more sensitive in responding to them.

One moan I did think was unfair was cracking about "well in the end the remaining characters clink glasses and it's all portrayed to be OK and happy ever after" - when in the drama, it clearly isn't: these are some very broken, traumatised and guilty people and it was completely up in the air as to how much they could or even should reconcile. 

And while we're on Flame and Citron (yes, a brilliant movie), if you are interested in this period, the recent Polish production  IN DARKNESS directed by Agnieszka Holland prods even further at the moral complexities of what was going on in Poland and "how much the Poles knew" ... a more rounded and nuanced picture than that in Generation War, for sure. And a very very good film. An even rougher emotional ride than GW, though.


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## DotCommunist (May 12, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> If you've enjoyed this, I'd like to recommend to you to a Danish film "Flame and Citron". By far the most amazing war film I've ever seen. This has been good but that film is just brilliant.




bbc4 aired that last year- the final shoot out is great, as is the murkiness and murder of the resistance hitmen


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## goldenecitrone (May 12, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> One moan I did think was unfair was cracking about "well in the end the remaining characters clink glasses and it's all portrayed to be OK and happy ever after" - when in the drama, it clearly isn't: these are some very broken, traumatised and guilty people and it was completely up in the air as to how much they could or even should reconcile.


 
I thought that, too. They didn't clink glasses at all. They raised them to their dead friends. It was hardly going to be happily ever after for any of them in the ruins of Berlin with all the horrors they had witnessed.


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## Mrs Miggins (May 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> bbc4 aired that last year- the final shoot out is great, as is the murkiness and murder of the resistance hitmen


Yeah! 
I love the way you are never quite sure who are the good guys and who are the bad guys or if indeed anyone is really either!


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## rubbershoes (May 12, 2014)

I started watching this on Saturday.  Unfortunately all I caught was the last ten minutes of the final episode.

is it worth starting at the beginning?


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## Greebo (May 12, 2014)

rubbershoes said:


> <snip> is it worth starting at the beginning?


IMHO yes.


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## Gavin Bl (May 12, 2014)

yeah, tis.


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