# Champs innit! - Manchester United 2013-14



## Wilf (Jun 30, 2013)

Speak to me of the coming Moyes Millennium.


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## happie chappie (Jul 1, 2013)

Good appointment. Moyes has served a decent apprenticeship at Preston and Everton. 

One of the tests of a manager is whether he leaves a club in a better shape than when he joined and Moyes did this at Everton, especially considering the resources available to him.

Certainly prefer him to Mourinho - we’ve already got one Portuguese show pony thank you very much. 

Not sure we’ll win the league again (the most important trophy in my opinion) but I’m fairly optimistic. 

But then I’m easily pleased. Playing attractive, attacking football, and beating the Scousers home and away counts as a successful season in my book!


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## Wilf (Jul 1, 2013)

Fucker's been in post all day and still not bought Ronaldo.


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## The39thStep (Jul 1, 2013)

Ronaldo, Van Persie and Rooney now that is a bunch of egos to massage


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## Wilf (Jul 2, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Ronaldo, Van Persie and Rooney now that is a bunch of egos to massage


 I knew someone once who used to look after dogs when their owners were away.  Their separate bowls of food had to land on the kitchen floor at exactly the same moment or there'd be carnage.  I think I'll give Moyes her number.


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## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2013)

Barking mad article by that labour saving device for thinking that goes by the name Adrian Durham  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/index.html


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## Wilf (Jul 2, 2013)

By the way, I presume the stuff about Ronaldo coming back was always bollocks/just leverage on Real?  Even the rumours seem to have dried up. Last I heard (in the Sun  ) was his people were meeting with United about 10 days ago. Even that doesn't seem to have happened.


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## Wilf (Jul 2, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> Barking mad article by that labour saving device for thinking that goes by the name Adrian Durham http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/index.html


 Yep, complete lack of lagic - 'it's easy to get loads of goals if you play for a crap team'.


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## happie chappie (Jul 4, 2013)

More good news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23177876


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## Wilf (Jul 17, 2013)

So, what's the plan with Rooney? I'm not very good at reading the runes on these things (Moyes statement that he's second fiddle to Van Persie). Did he make a genuine attempt to keep him, Rooney upped the wages demand, told to fuck off? Even if it's anything like that, this doesn't seem very subtle. If anything it might reduce his resale value, by making it clear he's no future at utd anyway.

Edit: Mirror are quoting him saying it's 'constructive dismissal'
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...chester-united-transfers-wayne-rooney-2058165


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## DexterTCN (Jul 17, 2013)

Sky Sports reports are usually quite accurate (ie not totally made up like lots of other shit).

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...elsea-have-a-bid-for-Wayne-Rooney-turned-down


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 17, 2013)

Bloody hell


> Chelsea are understood to have offered £10m in cash plus a player, thought to be either Juan Mata or David Luiz, in part exchange for the 27-year-old.


I still think Rooney can do a job, but getting either Mata or Luiz in exchange would be a pretty good deal!

Have Utd backed themselves into a corner by being so adamant about not selling? And what does it say that Chelsea are willing to get rid of Luiz and/or Mata? Well, probably not much really as there's been rumours about both of them leaving for a while, guess Mourinho just doesn't want them, but those are two very good players on the market.

If Chelsea up the cash could Utd bite? Would they ever sell to a rival like that?

Imagine Fabregas and Mata in the same midfield behind RVP!


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## happie chappie (Jul 17, 2013)

Happy for Rooney to go.

In fact, we should have sold him when he first threw his toys out of the pram. I'd rather he went abroad but if he does go to Chelsea in a "cash plus player" deal, I'd take Mata over Luiz every time.

Mata's a class player. Luiz is a horrible, cheating twat.

But if they offer around £30 million I'd bite their hands off.


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## Fez909 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mata had got to be worth £20m plus? Him plus £10m seems like a good deal to me,  and Moyes is looking for midfielders who can score at the minute. 

Seems like the perfect deal?

Edit: actually Mata is worth a lot more than 20m when you consider some other recent transfers like Torres and Carroll.


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## Joe Reilly (Jul 17, 2013)

happie chappie said:


> Happy for Rooney to go.
> 
> In fact, we should have sold him when he first threw his toys out of the pram. I'd rather he went abroad but if he does go to Chelsea in a "cash plus player" deal, I'd take Mata over Luiz every time.
> 
> ...


 

Why what would you get for £30 million? Comparable strikers Cavani and Falcao went for over £20 million more. And neither of them puts in the kind of shift that Rooney is capable of.

Neither is the idea that Mata would be significantly more influential than Rooney borne out by the stats even (even on a patchy season like last year).

Undeniably Stretford did put a gun to Fergie's head after the 1-6 demolition by City and the previous year's humiliation by Barca where it is widely agreed Rooney, his client was the only Utd player that wouldn't be out of place in the Barca well-oiled machine.

Last season Rooney's goals in the PL (never mind the 10 assists, second only to Carzola and Mata) secured more actual points (15) that anyone else bar Bale and RVP.

Simply put without Rooney's contribution the title would likely have gone elsewhere.

Which is why the media ABU's (remember them?) want Utd and Rooney to part company. Sadly all too many Utd fans are falling into the trap.

Ultimately it's not 'their' limbs your devouring but your own.


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 17, 2013)

Couple of interesting (and contrasting) angles over on the BBC:



			
				Ade Hartland said:
			
		

> Brilliant mind games by Mourinho. Don't be fooled. If Chelsea really wanted Wayne Rooney they would pay over the odds.






			
				thelawman said:
			
		

> Mourinho and Chelsea thought they were being clever in trying to get inside Rooney's head but can you imagine Mata hearing about this, whether it is true or not, after the rumours earlier in the summer that Mourinho was preparing to sell him? It has backfired on Mourinho.


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## poului (Jul 17, 2013)

The player exchange rumour's been exposed as a load of rubbish. Surely you guessed as much?


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 18, 2013)

Just heard TalkSport reporting that tomorrow the Mirror will be reporting that Man Utd are "preparing a £60m bid for Gareth Bale".

Well, you can prepare all yer like, son...

Any chance?

Ah, here it is. Not one quote, of course.

e2a: the video at the end of that article is worth a watch if you've got a spare 12 minutes. Only 6 minutes and 16 goals in myself but what's really noticeable is there's nary a scuffed shot or deflection among them, none of them are less than very decent.


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## xslavearcx (Jul 18, 2013)

what was moyes and rooneys relationship like in everton days??


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## happie chappie (Jul 18, 2013)

Joe Reilly said:


> Why what would you get for £30 million? Comparable strikers Cavani and Falcao went for over £20 million more. And neither of them puts in the kind of shift that Rooney is capable of.
> 
> Neither is the idea that Mata would be significantly more influential than Rooney borne out by the stats even (even on a patchy season like last year).
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, can’t agree. Firstly, if he doesn’t leave we are going to have a continuing situation of Rooney throwing a strop every five minutes if he doesn’t get his way. No player is bigger than the club and his presence will continue to be disruptive. I don’t think many of the senior players will be happy with his behaviour and it could have a negative impact on the dressing room.

Second, we have lost players who are equally as good (and even better, such as Ronaldo) in the past and still survived and prospered. We’ve won the league twice since Ronaldo left and should have beaten City to the title the year before last. 

Third, his contract is going to run down and so his value is going to fall, especially if he isn’t going to be offered a renewal as seem likely.

Fourth, it’s clear Rooney has a fitness problem particularly regarding his weight. I’ve read somewhere that it might even be genetic. As he gets older he’ll find it increasingly difficult to keep the pounds off.

Fifth, while I take your point about the goals he scored last season, it would be wrong to maintain we wouldn’t have won the league without him as it doesn’t take account of the goals scored by his replacement. I personally think Hernandez would have scored a hatful if he had played more games.

All in all, I still think it’s a good time to sell. If the rumours are true, if we get £30 million for Rooney and add another £30 million we could get Bale who’s a better long-term buy.


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## Joe Reilly (Jul 18, 2013)

happie chappie said:


> Sorry, can’t agree. Firstly, if he doesn’t leave we are going to have a continuing situation of Rooney throwing a strop every five minutes if he doesn’t get his way. No player is bigger than the club and his presence will continue to be disruptive. I don’t think many of the senior players will be happy with his behaviour and it could have a negative impact on the dressing room.
> 
> *Significantly the senior players like Vidic and Ferdinand (not to mention Robson etc) seem to be on the Rooney side. And when the did Rooney ever strop? He was moved all over the pitch last season (and many seasons before that) at cost to himself and never complained, even winning mom awards from aberrant positions. The disruption began with Fergie flinging a private discussion into the public arena - an embellished private conversation as it happens - and then walking out laughing. How do you think the dressing room will feel if they lose their best all round player to their major title rivals? It's convenient not to forget that Scholes refused to play after Utd bought Veron. Rooney never did that. He was prevented from playing which is a very different thing.*
> 
> ...


 
Utd shouldn't be in the business of selling a proven world class player/winner to fund a deal for a potential one - especially when the former willbe going to a direct rival. What's more  potential attack comprising Zaha, Rooney, RVP, Kagawa is not where Utd need to reinforce


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## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Speak to me of the coming Moyes Millennium.


more like the manure apocalypse meltdown


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 22, 2013)

Second bid submitted for Fabregas, no news on amount.


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 22, 2013)

Now understood to be £30m plus add-ons

Apparently Moyes is sniffing round Cabaye if they don't get Fabregas. Fuck off


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## big eejit (Jul 22, 2013)

xslavearcx said:


> what was moyes and rooneys relationship like in everton days??


 
It was fine. Broke down a bit afterwards when Rooney libeled Moyes in his book.

Moyes is 100% professional, but I reckon he has a long memory for that sort of thing. I'm guessing deep down he'd find it rather satisfying to sell Rooney this time.


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## Joe Reilly (Jul 22, 2013)

big eejit said:


> It was fine. Broke down a bit afterwards when Rooney libeled Moyes in his book.
> 
> Moyes is 100% professional, but I reckon he has a long memory for that sort of thing. I'm guessing deep down he'd find it rather satisfying to sell Rooney this time.


 
Rooney later apologised. And Moyes accepted the apology. And commended Rooney for making it. So it would odd indeed for a  "100% professional" to let that influence him at all. Much less find it "rather satisfying" to sell his most influential player, who, despite an injury hit season, still racked up 23 goals (for club and country) with more than a dozen assists in as many games - to his greatest domestic rival.

Out of spite.
Yeah, that makes sense.

What is worrying though is that there does appear to be a continium between the old regime and the new one -a scenario where Moyes is already challenging Rooney to step up to the plate without Rooney even having a played a momen'ts football competitive or otherwise under the new management. Moyes not being entirely his own man may also explain the mixed messages coming out of Utd - Rooney not for sale at any price - but still an under study to Welbeck/Nani/ Giggs/Kagawa/Hernandez etc

People forget that what threatned at one stage to entirely break the back of Utd last season was Fergie's decision to drop Rooney from the RM game a few days after Utd's most emphatic, convincing, enjoyable victory of the whole campaign - 4-0 against Norwich - where a Rooney/Kagawa combo produced all 4 goals. _Both_ were subsequently dropped and Utd went out. Thereafter Utd's league form went off a cliff as well. Needless to say neither Welbeck/Nani were ever trusted again and it was only when the League was secured with Rooney's help that Fergie put the knife in. This was undoubtedly revenge for the 2010 contract (and precisely what was in that contract is probably key to the current impasse).

So if Moyes is indeed to prove himself a "100% professional" it is not Rooney he will have to get rid of but Fergie.
Good luck with that.


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## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2013)

Perceptive comment there Joe especially that last sentence.

bearing in mind Mourinhos wooing of Rooney you can now imagine with hindsight his relief and amazement that United dropped him for the CL games.


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## big eejit (Jul 22, 2013)

Joe Reilly said:


> Rooney later apologised. And Moyes accepted the apology. And commended Rooney for making it. So it would odd indeed for a "100% professional" to let that influence him at all. Much less find it "rather satisfying" to sell his most influential player, who, despite an injury hit season, still racked up 23 goals (for club and country) with more than a dozen assists in as many games - to his greatest domestic rival.
> 
> Out of spite.
> Yeah, that makes sense.
> ...


 
It wouldn't be odd, just human. I'm sure lots of true professionals, SAF included, have made decisions based on personality and other human factors, even if it may not be the best thing for the club. Moyes isn't the type to cut off his nose to spite his face, but I also don't think he easily forgets if someone's crossed him.


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## purves grundy (Jul 23, 2013)

Pre-season's not going very well is it? Are fans not a bit concerned?


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## Joe Reilly (Jul 23, 2013)

purves grundy said:


> Pre-season's not going very well is it? Are fans not a bit concerned?


 
Was it Glen Hoddle who opined that Andy Cole 'needed 6 chances to score one goal'. As is stands Welbeck the current target manon tour, seems to need somewhere around 16 and that may be a conservative estimate. In addition, as was shown last season without Vidic at the back anyone can score 2 or more against Utd.

Replace Welbeck with Rooney, Vidic for Evans/Jones restock the midfield and with Zaha looking more and more like the reincarnation of Laurie Cunnigham, and with Kagawa working on the other flank, (ala Pienar for Everton, but better) Utd could have the most multi-faceted attack, speed, creativity, strength, experience and goals, lots of goals, not just in England but in Europe. The key is keeping Rooney and adding either from inside or outside to badly depleted midfield dept.


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## Mungy (Jul 24, 2013)

i think the whole rooney thing is to keep the interested clubs partially tied up hoping to sign him, and to give the punters something to look at while moyes dithers like he did at everton 

eta. also moyes isn't used to having money to spend, but as he is a very disciplined person he is no doubt sticking to his thriftiness


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 26, 2013)

So - Fabregas?

Latest reports are that Fabregas has told friends he'd like to go to Utd. Barca's VP however has been pretty unequivocal:


> "It doesn't matter what any offer from Manchester United is - we're not selling him. We're counting on him. He's not for sale.
> 
> If there was a higher offer would we accept it? No. He's a great player. It doesn't bother us that Manchester United want him. We're proud that a club like that wants one of our players."


Utd must feel they have some chance, because otherwise this is pretty embarrassing for them. Is there some ulterior motive?


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## Kanda (Jul 26, 2013)

Fabregas...



> *FC Barcelona vice-president Josep Maria Bartomeu on Cesc Fabregas' future:* "It doesn't matter what any offer from Manchester United is - we're not selling him. We're counting on him. He's not for sale.
> "If there was a higher offer would we accept it? No. He's a great player. It doesn't bother us that Manchester United want him. We're proud that a club like that wants one of our players."


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 26, 2013)

if Fabregas does want to go for regular game time, you've got to wonder what he thought was going to happen when he signed for a team that had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in it.


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## TruXta (Jul 26, 2013)

I'm guessing he wanted trophies, same as RVP.


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 26, 2013)

TruXta said:


> I'm guessing he wanted trophies, same as RVP.


Which he got, so no use complaining that he's a sub when the best two midfielders in the world are playing...


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## TruXta (Jul 26, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> Which he got, so no use complaining that he's a sub when the best two midfielders in the world are playing...


Has he been complaining then? Can't say I've paid all that much attention.


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 26, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Has he been complaining then? Can't say I've paid all that much attention.


 
That's what's being reported. He also said this last season...



> There's no such thing as a great substitute in the world of football. Everybody likes to play every minute of the season. I've always said that I play for the best team in the world, but I came here to compete, to learn and enjoy, not to sit wracking my brains. The manager knows what I can offer. But across the three positions that I can play, I am competing with the three best players in the world, he added in reference to Andres Iniesta, Xavi and Sergio Busquets. I'm delighted to be a part of this team but when a coach tells me I have to go, I'll go.


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## g force (Jul 26, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jul/26/cesc-fabregas-staying-barcelona-manchester-united

From today's press conference:

_The Argentinian's words were backed up by the vice-president Josep Maria Bartomeu, who said: "Whatever offer United make, however big, we will say no. Cesc Fábregas will stay a Barcelona player. That United shows interest in Cesc Fábregas is normal. He is a truly great player. It doesn't annoy us._
_"It gives us pride to have such a good player in our team that United want him because they are a great club. But whatever offer arrives from them we are not going to sell Cesc Fábregas. We are counting on him._
_"I think Tata Martino was clear that he is counting on him as a player and Andoni Zubizarreta from the first day when we asked him about it saying there was an offer he replied Cesc is not for sale. We are very happy with him."_


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## Kanda (Jul 26, 2013)

Xavi is getting on a bit, Cesc a natural replacement. They'd be nuts to sell him.


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 26, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Xavi is getting on a bit, Cesc a natural replacement. They'd be nuts to sell him.


Xavi is irreplaceable, one of the top 5 footballers of all time.


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## Kanda (Jul 26, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> Xavi is irreplaceable, one of the top 5 footballers of all time.


 
He's 33. I know he's a great player but what's the point in selling Cesc when he can play that position.


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## g force (Jul 30, 2013)

Exactly...with Alcantara gone too Cesc is needed more than ever. I can't see him going anywhere.


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## shagnasty (Jul 31, 2013)

I remember when the last really succesful manager Sir Matt Busby retired.It took Man Utd a long time to get competetive again ,i think Sir Matt being at the club in an executive role didn't  help


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## peterkro (Aug 1, 2013)

Fergie tells them to fuck off with their peerage.


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## big eejit (Aug 1, 2013)

"Champs innit" - since when has 'innit' been a Mancunian expression?


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## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2013)

The Daily Star (I know) has a 'World Exclusive' that Cristiano Ronaldo is on the brink of an £80M sale back to Manchester United.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...nk-of-mega-deal-for-Cristiano-Ronaldo-reunion


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## DexterTCN (Aug 1, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Fergie tells them to fuck off with their peerage.


 
_Sir_ Fergie tells them to fuck off with their peerage.


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## peterkro (Aug 1, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> _Sir_ Fergie tells them to fuck off with their peerage.


Yes I did realise the paradox after I posted that.(I was pissed if that's any mitigation)


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## DexterTCN (Aug 1, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Yes I did realise the paradox after I posted that.(I was pissed if that's any mitigation)


 
Most certainly is


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## Wilf (Aug 2, 2013)

big eejit said:


> "Champs innit" - since when has 'innit' been a Mancunian expression?


Since a citeh fan named their 2012-13 thread the same way.  It was my Welcome to Manchester moment.


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## big eejit (Aug 3, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Since a citeh fan named their 2012-13 thread the same way.  It was my Welcome to Manchester moment.


 
Ah I missed that ref!

(Still don't like estuarian English on Northern threads tho!)


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## Lord Camomile (Aug 3, 2013)

Barca moderating their tone re: Fabregas:



			
				Barca manager Gerardo Martino said:
			
		

> "I would prefer him to stay with us and I dare say he will, but it's his decision."
> 
> "Cesc will decide the situation, but it has not occurred to me that I won't be able to count on him.
> 
> ...


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## Joe Reilly (Aug 5, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Barca moderating their tone re: Fabregas:


 
Earlier in the saga Utd were 'moderating their tone' re: Rooney by not taking the Fergie line that Rooney had asked for a transfer. So it's interesting to see sections of the press led by Oliver Kay in The Times suggesting that should Rooney be booed on his reappearance in a Utd shirt it will Chelsea who be the beneficiary. It is indeed central to the Chelsea strategy, according to Mr Kay 

How odd then that the Chelsea strategy which is to say, have the crowd turn against Rooney, was initiated by Fergie, when he made the eroneous and unprovoked announcement of Rooney's likely departure at the Swansea game. 

Which in turn led to sections of the crowd booing Rooney thereafter.  

And even with Gill and Fergie when Moyes and Woodward step up the saga continues. This is because Rooney the one constant in the affair wants out, supposedly. But hold on. There is another constant lurking in the background. The Glazers. If Rooney dosen't want to go - and why would he - no one has suggested a convincing reason - it is we can assume the Glazers who want rid of him. Why?
Money.
A Rooney departure for £40 plus would net them, (taking his annual wage into account) an extra £100 million.

So there's their's their motivation. Simples.

Force Rooney out, save £100 million, with, all importantly, him rather than them seen as the villian of the piece.

Whats not to like?


In the Opta Index published by the Sunday Mirror Suarez tops out at 1382, RVP comes in 3rd with 1285. Who's comes in second with 1331?

Why no other than the 'fat scouser who couldn't trap a bag of cement'. Oh yeah the £100 plus Bale takes 1291. Just saying.

*Glazers v Rooney: whose side are you on?*


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## skyscraper101 (Aug 5, 2013)

Joe Reilly said:


> *Glazers v Rooney: whose side are you on?*


 
Neither


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## Joe Reilly (Aug 6, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Neither


 

The type of gnomic response on which informed discussion thrives.


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## Fedayn (Aug 6, 2013)

Joe Reilly said:


> *Glazers v Rooney: whose side are you on?*


 

Ordinary working-class fans who lose out whichever of the above you refer to 'wins'.


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## Joe Reilly (Aug 7, 2013)

Fedayn said:


> Ordinary working-class fans who lose out whichever of the above you refer to 'wins'.[/quote


 
The only way ordinary working class or otherwise man utd fans lose out would be if the Glazers attempt to drive down Rooney's contract costs Utd on the pitch. (And not just this season either. Already Fergie's manouvering's on this last year caused Utd to lose out to RM who were there for the taking.)

But to imply that there is no difference, or you claim not to see any, between a player who has been central to Utd's sporting success (A Premeiership title very two years/Champion's League Final appearance every 3) over the last decade, and a family of venture capitalists who loaded the best part of £1 billion of debt onto the club is, to put it mildly, a tad unsophisticated.


Edit only to add: 

"You have absolute gold in Rooney, someone who is proven over six, seven, eight years; who delivers season in, season out; and is one of the top goals and assists man in the league consistently - even last season when he wasn't at his strongest.
"He will work his backside off and never drop his level in training and the importance of Rooney [is huge]; he is a vital player, a champion player and someone that wins you the league.
"He is the guy who in the middle of October when you are four points behind in the league, going to Chelsea and have Arsenal the week after, sits in front of his midfield two, works his backside off, gets up the pitch, gets back, sets up goals and digs in.
"Don't underestimate the value of Rooney to Manchester United's success over the last eight years and the way he is liked amongst his team-mates."

G.Neville, Sky Sports


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## g force (Aug 8, 2013)

This seems pretty definitive (as if it was ever going to happen): http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/08/cesc-fabregas-staying-barcelona-manchester-united


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## Joe Reilly (Aug 8, 2013)

g force said:


> This seems pretty definitive (as if it was ever going to happen): http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/aug/08/cesc-fabregas-staying-barcelona-manchester-united


 
Increasingly the Utd transfer strategy in beginning to resemble that of Tottenham a some years back where they constantly made bids for players that they knew were unavailable. Fabregas denies any contact with Utd, which follows a similar denial by Thiago. So that being the case, what was the seemingly hapless Woodward doing when he broke off from the tour to deal with urgent business with Moyes predicting 'some positive news' in a day or so - at the end of July. Add in the Rooney fiasco and Utd is being made to resemble a 'small club' (like say Arsenal) unable to attract top talent while grimly hanging onto their star man. Chelsea and City meanwhile the main challengers have already done their shopping. All in all an inauspicious start to the new regime.


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## Wilf (Aug 8, 2013)

Moyes might well work out in terms of the team and the club (important stuff needless to say). However he certainly ain't looking good as a transfer magnet/magnate.  Been a while since utd were elite level on the world stage and even fergie couldn't get them punching too much above their weight transfer wise.  This Summer just confirms there's maybe 10 teams ahead of us when it comes to getting the best.  Ah well, Zaha looks good.  Same time, if Utd don't manage to prise out even the odd Evertonian, it doesn't look good for Moyes.


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## Joe Reilly (Aug 9, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Moyes might well work out in terms of the team and the club (important stuff needless to say). However he certainly ain't looking good as a transfer magnet/magnate. Been a while since utd were elite level on the world stage and even fergie couldn't get them punching too much above their weight transfer wise. This Summer just confirms there's maybe 10 teams ahead of us when it comes to getting the best. Ah well, Zaha looks good. Same time, if Utd don't manage to prise out even the odd Evertonian, it doesn't look good for Moyes.


  “@fellainiM text me back, mate. Please.”
E.Woodward


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## Lo Siento. (Aug 9, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Moyes might well work out in terms of the team and the club (important stuff needless to say). However he certainly ain't looking good as a transfer magnet/magnate. Been a while since utd were elite level on the world stage and even fergie couldn't get them punching too much above their weight transfer wise. This Summer just confirms there's maybe 10 teams ahead of us when it comes to getting the best. Ah well, Zaha looks good. Same time, if Utd don't manage to prise out even the odd Evertonian, it doesn't look good for Moyes.


I'm sceptical as to how much attention players pay to who the coach is, tbh. I mean, the Premier League is pretty unique in terms of people in post for years on end, in most cases in La Liga the guy who signed you is unlikely to be in charge when you leave. 

I can't see too many transfers that have fallen through/happened elsewhere that Fergie would've made any difference.


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## Joe Reilly (Aug 9, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> I'm sceptical as to how much attention players pay to who the coach is, tbh. I mean, the Premier League is pretty unique in terms of people in post for years on end, in most cases in La Liga the guy who signed you is unlikely to be in charge when you leave.
> 
> I can't see too many transfers that have fallen through/happened elsewhere that Fergie would've made any difference.


 
I tend to agree. In terms of in-coming transfers Moyes is not likely to be the main villian of the piece. With Fegie he just pointed at the one he wants and Gill did the rest. So it's who replaced Gill that may be the bigger problem. Woodward has no history in football.

He might be a zinger in marketing but the fact remains that the only person he ever signed was Mr Potato.

Where Moyes is being held up to the light is in his lamentable handling of the Rooney situation. To begin with he seemed to have calmed the situation, and then ripped up all that with the 'understudy to RVP' remark, coupled to the stupid Woodward remark that he was relaxed about the contract 'running down'. To the Rooney camp it seemed to suggest that the 'new boss was the same as the old boss': that Moyes was not his own man, more a coach (at best) than manager with all the real decisions being made elsewhere.

In other words it is only really when the efforts of Moyes/Woodward are considered in tandem, as now, that doubts are beginning to multiply, with each currently having to carry the can for the real as well as percieved failings of the other.


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 11, 2013)

Joe Reilly said:


> The only way ordinary working class or otherwise man utd fans lose out would be if the Glazers attempt to drive down Rooney's contract costs Utd on the pitch. (And not just this season either. Already Fergie's manouvering's on this last year caused Utd to lose out to RM who were there for the taking.)
> 
> But to imply that there is no difference, or you claim not to see any, between a player who has been central to Utd's sporting success (A Premeiership title very two years/Champion's League Final appearance every 3) over the last decade, and a family of venture capitalists who loaded the best part of £1 billion of debt onto the club is, to put it mildly, a tad unsophisticated.
> 
> ...


 

Ordinary United fans will get screwed either way either by your 'innately good' United or by Rooney who gives not a fuck for you or any other 'Mancs'. Rooney, clearly no venture capitalist but happy toi be part of said venture, was happy to be part of the charade of modern football, don't try and make him out to be some kind of icon worth supporting beyond scoring for your team.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 11, 2013)

I don't give a toss about Rooney after his little episode about wanting to leave United a couple of years back. He can do one and take his winging elsewhere. I'd love to see him try and get on in Spain, it would be proper lol.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 12, 2013)

Hodgson not doing Man Utd any favours in the England press conference:



			
				Hodgson said:
			
		

> "Rooney looked good, as I expected. There was no doubt in my mind in the session that he was not still suffering from a physical injury."


----------



## DexterTCN (Aug 12, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Hodgson not doing Man Utd any favours in the England press conference:


 
I think national squads have a policy of using their own medics to decide if someone is injured, don't they?  If the national manager decides he wants the player to attend he can demand a medical?

Makes Moyes look a fool.   At least Rogers sent Suarez to play on his own.


----------



## Pants Man (Aug 15, 2013)

> "I find it hard to believe that's the way the balls came out of the bag, that's for sure," said the Scot.
> "I hope it's not because Manchester United won the league quite comfortably last year [that] the fixtures have been made much more difficult."
> David Moyes


 
Moyes already suited to life in the ManU bubble, good luck with that.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 15, 2013)

Pants Man said:


> Moyes already suited to life in the ManU bubble, good luck with that.


Silly thing to say - and also a bit like he's getting his defence for a poor start in early. Admittedly fergie would have said something similar as you suggest, but it isn't good mood music after the poor pre-season and failures in the transfer market.  Shouldn't he be saying 'great, bring it on'?


----------



## Pants Man (Aug 16, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Shouldn't he be saying 'great, bring it on'?


 
yep, saints did last season
manCity - wigan - manU - arsenal


----------



## friedaweed (Aug 16, 2013)

Pants Man said:


> Moyes already suited to life in the ManU bubble, good luck with that.


Aye picking up right where misery arse left off.


----------



## agricola (Aug 17, 2013)

How does Welbeck still get a game?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 17, 2013)

Well, he has scored two, and that second was rather delightful.


----------



## agricola (Aug 17, 2013)

agricola said:


> How does Welbeck still get a game?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 17, 2013)

I have always wondered what Everton would be like with Van Persie upfront


----------



## Balbi (Aug 17, 2013)

agricola said:


> How does Welbeck still get a game?


 

Biffo'd


----------



## Pants Man (Aug 17, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> I have always wondered what Everton would be like with Van Persie upfront


 
fantasy league team


----------



## Joe Reilly (Aug 18, 2013)

agricola said:


> How does Welbeck still get a game?


 
The real question is how Giggs gets one. Woeful again yesterday. The instant upping of the threat going forward was evident once Rooney replaced him. The faultline in the starting line up was also easily detected. Jones though admirable in many ways, is looking less and less comfortable at rightback.
Accordingly Rafael will improve things no end on that side, not least going forward.

Welbeck meanwhile, may on current forward be more productive than either Young or Nani on the left, but you can't help feeling that Kagawa would bring that extra subtlety usually needed against top sides.

If Welbeck is to prosper it will be as a No 9, where he should play for England - he will never be the one in the hole - his awareness of others around him being near zero.

As ever the real problem is in midfield. Cleverly after a very promising start to his Utd career, looks no better than a makeweight in a mid-table side. Dosen't tackle, easily shrugged off the ball, allowed Michu and Bony to slip behind him in the second half, rarely scores or creates and his passing flatters to decieve. Obviously Anderson is not the answer. So if Utd are to compete in Europe it is his place that is simply screaming to be filled.


----------



## thriller (Aug 26, 2013)

Well tonight's game will tell us if our manager is a Man or a Moyes.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 26, 2013)

Bit cagey so far


----------



## agricola (Aug 26, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Bit cagey so far


 
Thats only because it is two "big" teams - if Yeovil and Huddersfield were serving this up, it would be called dire.


----------



## Pants Man (Aug 26, 2013)

dull, manU average, chelsea safe card.


----------



## agricola (Aug 30, 2013)

Joke bids put in for di Rossi and (especially - 30 million euro when he has a 36 million euro buyout) Ander Herrera now, which amazingly enough have been rejected. What on earth is Moyes doing?


----------



## Dandred (Sep 1, 2013)




----------



## Gingerman (Sep 1, 2013)

Moyes 'great'record at Anfield continues....


----------



## agricola (Sep 1, 2013)

lol Moist


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 1, 2013)

When was the last time united failed to score in two games?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 1, 2013)

Man Utd fan reacts to the Liverpool match


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 1, 2013)

Needs updating.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 3, 2013)

Can't get Fabregas or Alcantara?. Fellaini will do!


----------



## leanderman (Sep 3, 2013)

It's embarrassing.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 3, 2013)

I am considering betting on a 0-0 draw for Man City v Man Utd later this month


----------



## gabi (Sep 3, 2013)

Can't really blame Fabgregas for resisting a move. Hmm... Manchester.. or Barcelona? Which would you pick..


----------



## LiamO (Sep 3, 2013)

"You'll never win anything with kids Fellaini"


----------



## agricola (Sep 3, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


> Can't get Fabregas or Alcantara?. Fellaini will do!



Or Khedira.  Or Baines.  Or want to pay what Herrera was going to leave Bilbao for.  Or leave it too late to sign Coentrao.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 3, 2013)

Moyes:  Fellaini will succeed.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...ne-fellaini-will-succeed-at-manchester-united

Fellaini:  I'll last longer than Moyes, that's for sure.


----------



## Big Gunz (Sep 4, 2013)

Moyes out before Christmas, what are the odds?


----------



## agricola (Sep 4, 2013)

So the lawyers werent imposters, then.


----------



## Pants Man (Sep 4, 2013)

Big Gunz said:


> Moyes out before Christmas, what are the odds?



0


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 4, 2013)

Funny seeing the Man Utd fans go ballistic on Twitter on the night of the transfer deadline - one was so pissed off they hadn't spent £100m he wanted them to be relegated rather than face 10 years of decline. Welcome to the real world mate, now you're gonna find out what it's like to be a real football fan!


----------



## tommers (Sep 4, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Funny seeing the Man Utd fans go ballistic on Twitter on the night of the transfer deadline - one was so pissed off they hadn't spent £100m he wanted them to be relegated rather than face 10 years of decline. Welcome to the real world mate, now you're gonna find out what it's like to be a real football fan!



Doubt it.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 4, 2013)

tommers said:


> Doubt it.


doubt what?


----------



## Gingerman (Sep 4, 2013)

Big Gunz said:


> Moyes out before Christmas, what are the odds?


 
Na,think he'll be given a bit of time,finish outside the top 4 at the end of the season though?


----------



## tommers (Sep 4, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> doubt what?



That they'll find out what it's like to be a real football fan.  They'll continue in their little bubble.  They're not getting relegated are they?  They're hardly Portsmouth or Accrington Stanley.  The press will still ignore the fact that about 50 other clubs are called United and Clive Tyldesley will still be reminiscing about that night in Barcelona.  Failure is relative, they might come 2nd or, god forbid, 3rd but they'll still enjoy relative success compared to everybody else.

They fucked up some transfers.  We might not even manage to sign Carlton Cole.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 4, 2013)

tommers said:


> That they'll find out what it's like to be a real football fan.  They'll continue in their little bubble.  They're not getting relegated are they?  They're hardly Portsmouth or Accrington Stanley.  The press will still ignore the fact that about 50 other clubs are called United and Clive Tyldesley will still be reminiscing about that night in Barcelona.  Failure is relative, they might come 2nd or, god forbid, 3rd but they'll still enjoy relative success compared to everybody else.
> 
> They fucked up some transfers.  We might not even manage to sign Carlton Cole.


Yeah you're probably right....but we can hope!

It must be wierd being a Man Utd fan though. Hardly ever losing. Rarely a season without a trophy. Rarely the disappointment of a really long journey home having lost after an awful game. Always having cash for transfers. No fears of going bust. No ten game runs without a win. And winning stuff possibly not really being that special....cos it happens so often.


----------



## tommers (Sep 5, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah you're probably right....but we can hope!
> 
> It must be wierd being a Man Utd fan though. Hardly ever losing. Rarely a season without a trophy. Rarely the disappointment of a really long journey home having lost after an awful game. Always having cash for transfers. No fears of going bust. No ten game runs without a win. And winning stuff possibly not really being that special....cos it happens so often.



Exactly.  I pity them.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Sep 5, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> Moyes:  Fellaini will succeed.
> 
> http://www1.skysports.com/football/...ne-fellaini-will-succeed-at-manchester-united


 
The Bloomberg report, whichmeasures the overall contribution of the top 50 European footballers has Fellani at 12. Currently that gives UTD a total of 3 of the the 50. On  the  other  hand Bayern have six.


----------



## Pants Man (Sep 5, 2013)

shite manU to finish 3rd/4th this season


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 7, 2013)

Pants Man said:


> shite manU to finish 3rd/4th this season


let's hope!


----------



## Big Gunz (Sep 10, 2013)

Moyes doesn't know what he's doing.  Most creative player not even getting any games and i thought he was injured.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ustration-dropped-Manchester-United-side.html

Long may this continue.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 22, 2013)

leanderman said:


> It's embarrassing.



Yes, I would think the same.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 22, 2013)

Dandred said:


> Yes, I would think the same.



I never thought it would be this bad. Still, Ferguson got plenty of dickings too.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 22, 2013)

Still top half though so not too bad. (alphabetically and goal difference)


----------



## peterkro (Sep 22, 2013)

City are a different proposition with Kompany playing.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 23, 2013)

Joe Reilly said:


> The Bloomberg report, whichmeasures the overall contribution of the top 50 European footballers has Fellani at 12. Currently that gives UTD a total of 3 of the the 50. On  the  other  hand Bayern have six.



Half time summary on the BBC live text site:





> Another one to stick in your statistical pipe and smoke is the fact that Marouane Fellaini has not touched the ball in either team's penalty box.
> 
> It seems he takes 'box-to-box midfielder' to mean to the the edges of both penalty areas, but no further.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2013)

United can easily win this. West Brom look shite.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2013)




----------



## TruXta (Sep 28, 2013)

The WBA attacking line looked very sharp in the last half. Sessegnon was on fire.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 28, 2013)

Give him time.


----------



## Voley (Sep 28, 2013)




----------



## savoloysam (Sep 28, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Speak to me of the coming Moyes Millennium.


 he wont make xmas ha ha ha


----------



## TruXta (Sep 28, 2013)

He'll be there for another year or two no doubt.


----------



## savoloysam (Sep 28, 2013)

Dandred said:


> United can easily win this. West Brom look shite.



yea really


----------



## TruXta (Sep 28, 2013)

Manchester, I am in you.


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2013)

savoloysam said:


> yea really



You might have missed some of my previous predictions?


----------



## Dandred (Sep 28, 2013)

dp


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 28, 2013)

Worst start in how many years?  I missed that bit on the news.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 28, 2013)




----------



## Badgers (Sep 28, 2013)

DexterTCN said:
			
		

> Worst start in how many years?  I missed that bit on the news.



24


----------



## big eejit (Sep 28, 2013)

Lawks utd look shit. Really shit.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 28, 2013)

Badgers said:


> 24


lol sorry you must have mis-typed that...I thought you said 24.


----------



## Maltin (Sep 29, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> Worst start in how many years?  I missed that bit on the news.


Before yesterday's game, I saw a spin on this saying it was the best start for a new Manchester United manager since Matt Busby in 1945.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24140621


----------



## Badgers (Sep 29, 2013)

12th in the table is not too bad. They have a better goal difference than Hull and Cardiff ahead of them. Should be back in the top half soon and that goal difference is vital.


----------



## gabi (Sep 30, 2013)

Who the fuck appointed david fucking moyes? when mourinho was keen on it?


----------



## ska invita (Sep 30, 2013)

hehe, going to have to subscribe to this thread


----------



## Badgers (Sep 30, 2013)

ska invita said:
			
		

> hehe, going to have to subscribe to this thread



 

European game Wednesday and then (((Sunderland))) at the weekend  it would be quite a turn up if points were dropped there


----------



## gabi (Sep 30, 2013)

What team do you support Badgers?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 30, 2013)

gabi said:
			
		

> What team do you support Badgers?



As long as the sport of football is the winner I am happy.


----------



## gabi (Sep 30, 2013)

Arsenal then?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 30, 2013)

gabi said:
			
		

> Arsenal then?



Nah. Always liked them though. Unless they are playing Fulham.


----------



## Ponyutd (Oct 1, 2013)

It's taken 11 years for Moyes to get Everton above Man Utd, he's finally done it.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 2, 2013)

Not great tonight but a draw away from home in the CL is not the end of the world. Phil Jones man of the match?


----------



## Dandred (Oct 5, 2013)

Great start to the game!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 5, 2013)

Dandred said:


> Great start to the game!



Come on Sunderland!


----------



## Dandred (Oct 5, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Come on Sunderland!



  
This will make my fucking weekend!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 5, 2013)

Moyes must be pleading with them in the dressing room now. On his knees.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 5, 2013)

That kid Januzaj looks very promising. Great runs and good technique.


----------



## Dandred (Oct 5, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Moyes must be pleading with them in the dressing room now. On his knees.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 5, 2013)

Oh ffs why did I go and big him up?


----------



## TruXta (Oct 5, 2013)

They still won't be higher than, what 10th?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 5, 2013)

TruXta said:


> That kid Januzaj looks very promising. Great runs and good technique.



He does, doesn't he.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 5, 2013)

Only about 12 as well.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 5, 2013)

In shock news, Manchester United win football game.


----------



## Dandred (Oct 5, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Oh ffs why did I go and big him up?



You did a dandred.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 6, 2013)

TruXta said:


> They still won't be higher than, what 10th?



Who cares? It was 7-18 and now it is 20-18. That will do for now.


----------



## Favelado (Oct 6, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Who cares? It was 7-18 and now it is 20-18. That will do for now.


 5-3


----------



## ska invita (Oct 6, 2013)

Wilf said:


> In shock news, Manchester United beat team at bottom of the table


----------



## leanderman (Oct 6, 2013)

Favelado said:


> 5-3



True. But that score was, pre-Cantona, 1-4. So, I rest happy.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 6, 2013)

I left the pub with Sunderland winning 1-0 and wake up to this news


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 6, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24416142
Why would he want to play for England?  surely he'd choose the country of his birth esp when you consider  Belgium are a far better attraction atm......


----------



## Badgers (Oct 7, 2013)

Top of the league in bookings


----------



## Badgers (Oct 19, 2013)

Another point closer to that 40 point safety net today.


----------



## Dandred (Oct 19, 2013)

Very quiet here!


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2013)

Dandred said:


> Very quiet here!


that's cos they only sing when they're winning


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2013)

Badgers said:


> Top of the league in bookings


nice to know moyes can get them to the top of one league


----------



## Badgers (Oct 19, 2013)

I am enjoying reading through the #mufc tweets


----------



## Voley (Oct 19, 2013)

Dandred said:


> Very quiet here!


I think gabi's the only Man U fan to post on here in about a month.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 19, 2013)

NVP said:
			
		

> I think gabi's the only Man U fan to post on here in about a month.



Shall we quote some of the early posts and give feedback? Might get some of the posters back here.


----------



## Voley (Oct 19, 2013)




----------



## leanderman (Oct 19, 2013)

I support Utd. I find it all quite funny.


----------



## twentythreedom (Oct 19, 2013)

I support Arsenal. I find it fucking hilarious


----------



## Favelado (Oct 19, 2013)

Lucky there's no such thing as Fergie-time anymore or that would have been a defeat.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 19, 2013)

twentythreedom said:


> I support Arsenal. I find it fucking hilarious



Always had a soft spot for Arsenal. Good luck to them. For fans of my age, it's all about United and Liverpool.


----------



## chilango (Oct 20, 2013)

#MoyesOut


----------



## chilango (Oct 20, 2013)

Only kidding.

But only just.

I can handle not winning, but we just seem so utterly utterly lacklustre.


----------



## Dandred (Oct 21, 2013)

Every time I see this thread I think it should be changed to "Chumps Innit!'


----------



## Lo Siento. (Oct 21, 2013)

chilango said:


> Only kidding.
> 
> But only just.
> 
> I can handle not winning, but we just seem so utterly utterly lacklustre.


heh. Nothing says "we've turned into Liverpool" like a good old-fashioned "I could stand losing if it looked like we were improving/playing with a bit of style/going for it".


----------



## chilango (Oct 21, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> heh. Nothing says "we've turned into Liverpool" like a good old-fashioned "I could stand losing if it looked like we were improving/playing with a bit of style/going for it".



Yup.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 21, 2013)

Janusaz chooses an odd time to commit his future to United.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 21, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Janusaz chooses an odd time to commit his future to United.


Pay-rises never come at odd times do they?


----------



## LiamO (Oct 21, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Janusaz chooses an odd time to commit his future to United.



Why is it an odd time? Maybe his father, from whom he apparaently seekd counsel, is able to see a slightly bigger picture than the first few months of this season. Can't help but think you are all being a little bit previous thinking you can consign MUFC to the dustbin of history via collective wishful thinking.

Let's see come May.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 22, 2013)

To be fair to United some of the referees they have had have been shocking, at times it looks like they are only playing with eleven men.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 22, 2013)

LiamO said:


> Why is it an odd time? Maybe his father, from whom he apparaently seekd counsel, is able to see a slightly bigger picture than the first few months of this season. Can't help but think you are all being a little bit previous thinking you can consign MUFC to the dustbin of history via collective wishful thinking.
> 
> Let's see come May.


Wouldn't be wishful thinking from me, I'm a United fan.  Yes, certainly, we'll have to wait and see.  Same time, nothing so far has contradicted the idea of Moyes as an at least _uninspiring_ choice.  He might well get it back on track, but towards becoming a top 3/4 side. I just can't see him having the personality/inspiration/luck to really come out on top in the big games or in Europe.

Hard to tell what United's natural position is now, I suspect they can still do okay, but the prospect of a Lverpool type decline is the real worry.  Moyes will know he's under no real pressure from the owners and that he's under Ferguson's protection for a good while yet.  He'll have a chance to put his plan into action - trouble is, I'm not really sure what that plan is.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 22, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Hard to tell what United's natural position is now.


 
Top 3. Money is a far more important factor in terms of where teams finish than uninspiring managers or anything like that, and that makes the 'natural' top 3 Man U, Man City and Chelsea. Maybe Arsenal could push up there now they seem to be coming through the payments for the stadium. Then it's Liverpool and Spurs after that. I don't see Utd underperforming against that benchmark for too long tbh.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 22, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Top 3. Money is a far more important factor in terms of where teams finish than uninspiring managers or anything like that, and that makes the 'natural' top 3 Man U, Man City and Chelsea. Maybe Arsenal could push up there now they seem to be coming through the payments for the stadium. Then it's Liverpool and Spurs after that. I don't see Utd underperforming against that benchmark for too long tbh.


There's always an exception to a rule


----------



## Favelado (Oct 22, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Top 3. Money is a far more important factor in terms of where teams finish than uninspiring managers or anything like that, and that makes the 'natural' top 3 Man U, Man City and Chelsea. Maybe Arsenal could push up there now they seem to be coming through the payments for the stadium. Then it's Liverpool and Spurs after that. I don't see Utd underperforming against that benchmark for too long tbh.



I agree with this. No Liverpool-style decline for a club who stay at the top of the money tree. Liverpool got overtaken financially, United will still be able to fight with City and Chelsea in this area.

They could have a shit season and not qualify for the CL though. How badly that does that screw them up? Would be interesting to see if that precipitates some kind of nosedive. Fingers crossed. YNWA.


----------



## twentythreedom (Oct 22, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Always had a soft spot for Arsenal. Good luck to them. For fans of my age, it's all about United and Liverpool.


A bit patronising there tbh 

How old are you?


----------



## Wilf (Oct 22, 2013)

Favelado said:


> I agree with this. No Liverpool-style decline for a club who stay at the top of the money tree. Liverpool got overtaken financially, United will still be able to fight with City and Chelsea in this area.
> 
> They could have a shit season and not qualify for the CL though. How badly that does that screw them up? Would be interesting to see if that precipitates some kind of nosedive. Fingers crossed. YNWA.


 United's clearly got a way to go before the brand crumbles and they have a financial position most would kill for 9esp overseas earnings). However the Glazer's drain means the warchest isn't what it was nor are the contracts they can offer incoming stars. They're never going to go on a Leeds style decline and a Liverpool sized one isn't there yet, but they've already slipped into a broader top 4/5 bunch of teams.  Ferguson going was coincidental, but certainly doesn't help - and his biography thing today was unwelcome for Moyes.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 26, 2013)

Kanda


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 27, 2013)

The landlord in the pub at he road was so sick of uniteds performance against Stoke that he turned the game off just after half time in disgust lol


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24691368

Always knew they were fascists


----------



## Badgers (Oct 27, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24691368
> 
> Always knew they were fascists



Heh


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 27, 2013)

belboid said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24691368
> 
> Always knew they were fascists



The new order appears to be Liverpool in the top four and Utd down in eighth.


----------



## agricola (Oct 27, 2013)

belboid said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24691368
> 
> Always knew they were fascists



ein volk, ein reich, ein point at home to Southampton?


----------



## revol68 (Oct 28, 2013)

belboid said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24691368
> 
> Always knew they were fascists



Looks more like a 1920s lefty logo


----------



## Ole (Oct 28, 2013)

Wilf said:


> United's clearly got a way to go before the brand crumbles and they have a financial position most would kill for 9esp overseas earnings). However the Glazer's drain means the warchest isn't what it was nor are the contracts they can offer incoming stars. They're never going to go on a Leeds style decline and a Liverpool sized one isn't there yet, but they've already slipped into a broader top 4/5 bunch of teams.  Ferguson going was coincidental, but certainly doesn't help - and his biography thing today was unwelcome for Moyes.


The Glazers have contrived a rather successful bloodsucking operation (thanks in no small part to Ferguson's presence) ; in a few years time the debt and its servicing won't be a significant drain at all. They'd have taken about £1 billion out of the club by then so you'd fucking expect so.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 28, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Looks more like a 1920s lefty logo


National-*socialist*!


----------



## belboid (Oct 28, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Looks more like a 1920s lefty logo


no it doesn't. Twenties lefty logos were hammer n sickles or still using Morrisonian arts & crafts.  That kind of (vaguely) futurist logo was restricted to fascists.  Lefties would _certainly[/]i not have approved of an 'M' that was interchangeable with an 'E', same with the U and C - that kind of lazy practice is simply stealing from the typesetters paypacket, and is precisely kind of thing that set off the 1905 revolution!_


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 28, 2013)

belboid said:


> no it doesn't. Twenties lefty logos were hammer n sickles or still using Morrisonian arts & crafts.  That kind of (vaguely) futurist logo was restricted to fascists.  Lefties would _certainly[/]i not have approved of an 'M' that was interchangeable with an 'E', same with the U and C - that kind of lazy practice is simply stealing from the typesetters paypacket, and is precisely kind of thing that set off the 1905 revolution!_


are you sure that 'morrisonian arts and crafts' designs found favour as late as the 20s? i'd have thought that went out by the start of the first world war.


----------



## belboid (Oct 28, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> are you sure that 'morrisonian arts and crafts' designs found favour as late as the 20s? i'd have thought that went out by the start of the first world war.


nothing new, but lots of groups were still using the old ones


----------



## revol68 (Oct 28, 2013)

belboid said:


> no it doesn't. Twenties lefty logos were hammer n sickles or still using Morrisonian arts & crafts.  That kind of (vaguely) futurist logo was restricted to fascists.  Lefties would _certainly[/]i not have approved of an 'M' that was interchangeable with an 'E', same with the U and C - that kind of lazy practice is simply stealing from the typesetters paypacket, and is precisely kind of thing that set off the 1905 revolution!_



Yeah cos there was nothing proto futurist about the Russian revolution...


----------



## belboid (Oct 28, 2013)

revol68 said:


> Yeah cos there was nothing proto futurist about the Russian revolution...


'proto'??  there were planty of Russian futurists, but they never came to dominate the art world, let alone the world of logo choices. Of course they are the ones we remember, cos hey were rather good, but thats different to them being dominant.  Also, Russian futurists wouldnt have accepted the tediousness of that use of font, its a quite different aesthetic (partly, at least, to distinguish it from italo-fascist futurism)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 5, 2013)

Ashley Young not helping his reputation to 'win' that penalty. Decent save probably sees justice done...

Oh, wasn't a save


----------



## TruXta (Nov 5, 2013)

Ashley Young diving? I NEVER EVER EVER!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 5, 2013)

Who said anything about diving?  

Meanwhile, City vs CSK is 4-2 - ITV picked the wrong match to screen


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 5, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Ashley Young diving? I NEVER EVER EVER!


----------



## TruXta (Nov 5, 2013)

I really really hope ManU don't sell Young.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 5, 2013)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 5, 2013)

Poor lad's got jelly-knees


----------



## imposs1904 (Nov 5, 2013)

sleaterkinney said:


>



what a prick.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 5, 2013)

TruXta said:


> I really really hope ManU don't sell Young.



He's an embarrassment. I was pleased we missed the penalty.


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 6, 2013)




----------



## Badgers (Nov 6, 2013)

What an awful dive  Young has had little game time since the last dive, now he comes on for half an hour and does a worse (imo) dive than the last one.


----------



## DexterTCN (Nov 6, 2013)

Moyes refuses to criticize him, looks like it was planned.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 6, 2013)

leanderman said:


> He's an embarrassment. I was pleased we missed the penalty.


 Me too. Ironically, it's the most effective bit of his game.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 6, 2013)

He made himself look bad 
He made the defender look bad
He made David Moyes look bad 
He made the referee look bad 
He made Manchester United look bad 
He made the sport of football look bad 

But worst of all he made RVP look bad


----------



## shambler (Nov 6, 2013)

My mate suggested last night that the penalty for diving in the box should be "a penalty down the other end."

I laughed it off initially, but after seeing that GIF - It's not a bad idea


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 6, 2013)

Badgers said:


> What an awful dive


It wasn't that bad, it won a penalty


----------



## TruXta (Nov 6, 2013)

shambler said:


> My mate suggested last night that the penalty for diving in the box should be "a penalty down the other end."
> 
> I laughed it off initially, but after seeing that GIF - It's not a bad idea


It's a terrible idea. Yellow card, red if it would get the opposition player sent off IMO.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 6, 2013)

If he turns out to have some neurological condition, you'll all be eating your words.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 6, 2013)

I told you, poor kid has jelly-legs! Just because it sounds like a pennysweet no-one takes it seriously


----------



## Wilf (Nov 6, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I told you, poor kid has jelly-legs! Just because it sounds like a pennysweet no-one takes it seriously


 Each time he falls he condemns the inaction of medical science.  What will it take, what will it _*take*_!


----------



## Badgers (Nov 6, 2013)

TruXta said:


> It's a terrible idea. Yellow card, red if it would get the opposition player sent off IMO.



Odd one though eh? 

Last night the ref had a pretty good view of it and still gave the penalty. Assuming you were a goal down with ten minutes left maybe it is worth risking diving for a yellow/red to save the game? Like defenders who bring down attackers through on goal for the same reasons? Ten minutes with ten men is better than a goal down.


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 6, 2013)

Most divers use natural momentum to affect their tumble, Young falls to the floor like a dying rat.


----------



## TruXta (Nov 6, 2013)




----------



## Wilf (Nov 7, 2013)

Top, third from the left is what I see as the _classic_ young dive.  He pivots the whole sequence on some non-existent knee to knee contact.  Last night's fleeting finger touch was but a pale shadow of this, a mere shadow on the cave wall.


----------



## toblerone3 (Nov 10, 2013)

Thinking about the match with Arsenal.  Will be interesting. Could go either way.  Arsenal must be slight favourites, but only just.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 10, 2013)

The long unbeaten run continues.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 10, 2013)

In fact, Liverpool result aside, just about as good a week as could have been imagined.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 10, 2013)

Wilf said:


> In fact, Liverpool result aside, just about as good a week as could have been imagined.



Just what I was thinking. Apart from the Man U result.


----------



## agricola (Nov 25, 2013)

Bill Foulkes has died.


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 4, 2013)

David Moyes finally gets to see Everton win at Old Trafford......


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Dec 4, 2013)

It's over for United, the bully has left and the incomer can't manage the many egos.


----------



## DexterTCN (Dec 5, 2013)

Everton fans singing "You're getting sacked in the morning!"

Terrible.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 5, 2013)

It's a long road that has no turning. 

Moyes will be backed rather than sacked and Utd will reap the dividends in the longer term - unless of course they wish to follow the route they followed post-Busby... cos that worked out so well, didn't it?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Dec 5, 2013)

LiamO said:


> It's a long road that has no turning.
> 
> Moyes will be backed rather than sacked



That is United's cul de sac or their way out. Only time and the table will tell. Moyes did a great job at Everton but has always looked starstruck at United.


----------



## Rafa (Dec 5, 2013)

David Moyes is a football genius.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 5, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> That is United's cul de sac or their way out. Only time and the table will tell. Moyes did a great job at Everton but has always looked starstruck at United.


 That's my thinking on it, he's just not got an obvious ability to impose a 'vision' on the club. There would have been plenty of pitfalls with Mourhino (if he was ever really an option) or even some of the other big European managers, but you can't say that about them.  Same time, if the transfer thing over the Summer had gone better - and that wasn't really his fault (though again a 'bigger' manager would have asserted himself more) - the team would have been further up the table at least.  Should probably start by shipping 3 or 4 players out.


----------



## Yelkcub (Dec 5, 2013)

Wilf said:


> That's my thinking on it, he's just not got an obvious ability to impose a 'vision' on the club. There would have been plenty of pitfalls with Mourhino (if he was ever really an option) or even some of the other big European managers, but you can't say that about them.  Same time, if the transfer thing over the Summer had gone better - and that wasn't really his fault (though again a 'bigger' manager would have asserted himself more) - the team would have been further up the table at least.  Should probably start by shipping 3 or 4 players out.



Rooney's going to want out again soon, blatantly. As I said on the Everton thread, talk of Baines in January would appear a bit hopeful now. Post-Fergie Man United is not an offer you can't refuse.


----------



## LiamO (Dec 5, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Should probably start by shipping 3 or 4 players out.



He will.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Dec 5, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Should probably start by shipping 3 or 4 players out.


 
In reality Fabio, Ferdinand, Cleverly, Anderson, Giggs, Welbeck, Young, Nani, and (Fletcher unfortunately) are all surplus to a PL/CL winning side, while Fellani has the spectres of (Birtles/Brazil/Davenport/Gibson/Webb) players past, who all shrivelled under OT's bright lights to contend with.

In truth any  6 could be shipped out without a tear being shed, and without the quality of the squad being compromised.  Bizarrely that leaves Utd,  with Jones, never elegant, but effective in the middle a cb by trade, with just one specalist cm worthy of the name. Ultimately, what that means, thanks to Fergie, its not just one or two players that need replacing but an entire dept.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Dec 7, 2013)

This thread is as quiet as Old Trafford.


----------



## chilango (Dec 7, 2013)

chilango said:


> #MoyesOut


I was joking then.

I'm not joking now.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 7, 2013)

chilango said:


> I was joking then.
> 
> I'm not joking now.



Fergie said it's your job to get behind the manager. Don't betray his legacy.


----------



## Voley (Dec 7, 2013)




----------



## Dandred (Dec 7, 2013)

Chumps innit!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 7, 2013)

Fergie: Great at picking players, shite at picking managers. (just seen on BBC now.)


----------



## sunnysidedown (Dec 7, 2013)




----------



## Favelado (Dec 7, 2013)

About that perch.......


----------



## DexterTCN (Dec 7, 2013)

Breaking all kinds of records this season.


----------



## leanderman (Dec 7, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Fergie said it's your job to get behind the manager. Don't betray his legacy.



Don't think fans have much impact. It's the results, and the board that matter.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 7, 2013)

fuckin hell


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2013)

Next few games are shaktar, villa, stoke (capital thingy), whu, hull, Norwich.  In theory, a bit of respite, but if they lose 2 or 3 of those there'll be genuine pressure on him to go.  Imagine he's actually got a fair bit of time after Fergie's non-sacking in the 80s, maybe till after the transfer window. Same time, a Rooney-Ferdinand-RVP gripefest could speed things up.  Hard to read things with the Glaziers.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Dec 7, 2013)

not-bono-ever said:


> fuckin hell


----------



## Gingerman (Dec 7, 2013)

Nice of the Man U fans to observe a 90 minute silence for Nelson  Mandela today


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 7, 2013)

yes, i also posted this on the newcastle thread, but should I should spread the love


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2013)

Mirror suggesting RVP put in a transfer request last Tuesday.  Admittedly, it's a bit vague and it is Mark Lawrenson making the claim.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 7, 2013)




----------



## Gingerman (Dec 7, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Mirror suggesting RVP put in a transfer request last Tuesday.  Admittedly, it's a bit vague and it is Mark Lawrenson making the claim.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 7, 2013)

I've gone off Moyes a lot recently but he has inherited a sack of shit:

- aging or below standard squad
- business model that extracts money for the Glazers at the time that rivals got more money from rich owners or tv
- new director of football with no experience of signing players

All in all not a recipe for success. 

Good to see footy is still cyclical and the 'big four' is as fluid as ever.


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2013)

big eejit said:


> I've gone off Moyes a lot recently but he has inherited a sack of shit:
> 
> - aging or below standard squad
> - business model that extracts money for the Glazers at the time that rivals got more money from rich owners or tv
> ...



The only thing Moist can really be blamed for is buying Fellaini when it was obvious he would never play in his best position; everything else - the standard of the midfield, the age of the defence, Ashley Young etc - was there when he arrived.  

If he is still there in January then they should just do what they should have done in the summer - ie: buy Herrera and Coentrao - and they will rocket back up the league.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 7, 2013)

big eejit said:


> I've gone off Moyes a lot recently but he has inherited a sack of shit:
> 
> - aging or below standard squad
> - business model that extracts money for the Glazers at the time that rivals got more money from rich owners or tv
> ...


It was said even before he went that Ferguson was seriously papering over the cracks and it was a further testament to his skills that he produced a title-winning season from that squad/back-room situation.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 8, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> It was said even before he went that Ferguson was seriously papering over the cracks and it was a further testament to his skills that he produced a title-winning season from that squad/back-room situation.



If I'd been on the same job for 20 years I reckon I'd be pretty adept at papering over the cracks. It's when a new person comes in that the shortcomings of your setup is exposed.


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2013)

Barely any manager gets to be in the same job for 20 years - and that's because most managers don't even get close to Ferguson's genius. I never much liked the guy, but he's easily one of the best managers the world has ever seen.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 8, 2013)

Except in Europe.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 8, 2013)

I bought a Man utd bedside lamp for my son yesterday.it looks great mid table.


----------



## Voley (Dec 8, 2013)




----------



## peterkro (Dec 8, 2013)

With a change of manager after all these years an off season is to be expected,don't forget some supporters who are not johhny come latelys have seen us down in the second division before.Moyes does look out of his depth but then pretty much anyone would.If he's not getting a team and his strategy together by mid next season he may be on the way out.Any success this year in what ever competition should be seen as a bonus.


----------



## Fez909 (Dec 8, 2013)

peterkro said:


> With a change of manager after all these years an off season is to be expected,don't forget some supporters who are not johhny come latelys have seen us down in the second division before.Moyes does look out of his depth but then pretty much anyone would.If he's not getting a team and his strategy together by mid next season he may be on the way out.Any success this year in what ever competition should be seen as a bonus.



Hang on, hang on.

You're talking about Manchester United, one of the richest clubs in the world. Currently the champions of English football. They've got the same players as last season and a few additions. A new manager is bound to make things a bit uncertain but to go from winning the league comfortable in May to not saying any success should be seen as a bonus?  

Man City have a new manager and they are above United. As do Chelsea, Everton and Southampton.

Why would you accept a season of nothing from Moyes? Fair enough, you can expect some drop in success levels after losing one of the greatest managers ever, but only a few months later with the same squad should not reduce them to nothing.

Madness.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 8, 2013)

The other clubs you mention have been on the managerial roundabout for years so are not comparable.They buy managers for short term success not long term club/team building,see Fergies first three years.Yes they are the same players and many are under performing but it's a big change and this transitional season was unavoidable IMO.Everyone's jumping on the "ooh look Man U are crap" bandwagon but guess what we've been crap before and quite likely will be again.Staying in the first four of the premiership is getting more difficult as time goes on the difference between those big four and the others nipping at their heels has never been so close.
Arsenal and the noisy neighbours are fucking good teams, at the moment we are not measuring up, so what a season is a long time and a clubs history is much much longer,a blip like this is a wakeup call and that's a good thing.
PS one of the richest clubs in the world,yes but shitloads of that money is paying interest on the Glazers dodgy fucking dealing.


----------



## big eejit (Dec 8, 2013)

Thing is Man U may generate a lot of income, but they're being milked dry by their 'investors'. With their current business model I don't think they can afford to compete.


----------



## Fez909 (Dec 8, 2013)

peterkro said:


> see Fergies first three years



Man U were 2nd bottom when he took over. If they were the reigning champions he wouldn't have been given as much time.


big eejit said:


> Thing is Man U may generate a lot of income, but they're being milked dry by their 'investors'. With their current business model I don't think they can afford to compete.


Can't afford to compete but they won the title 7 months ago and had the 4th highest transfer fee this season?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 8, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> Can't afford to compete but they won the title 7 months ago and had the 4th highest transfer fee this season?


But what was their overall spending? Being able to buy one expensive thing is different to being able to buy _loads_ of expensive things. Like Aresn... wait  

I take your point to some extent, but Moyes taking over Utd is not the same as, say, Mourinho taking over at Chelsea. Moyes is new to such a big club, and as others have said he _does_ look out of his depth at the moment, but he might get into it (then again, might not  ). Also, while he does have relatively the same squad, a) it's someone else's squad and b) it has already been established that Ferguson did a very impressive job of getting a title-winning season out of that squad, no doubt helped somewhat by other teams failing to get their own act together.

Man Utd aren't doing well at the moment, there's no denying it, but I can't help feeling a lot of the current crowing is being done by people who are simply enjoying the fact the team that has dominated the league, and with it their respective teams, for a good couple of decades. All seems a little childish


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 8, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Man Utd aren't doing well at the moment, there's no denying it, but I can't help feeling a lot of the current crowing is being done by people who are simply enjoying the fact the team that has dominated the league, and with it their respective teams, for a good couple of decades. All seems a little childish



You say that like childish crowing isn't the whole point.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 8, 2013)

Q: how many Man U board members does it take to change the manager?

A: Five, one to change him and four to compose and perform a song about how good the old one was.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Dec 8, 2013)

The irony is that Ferguson, in writing his updated memoirs, thought nothing of exploring the perceived shortcomings in Arsenal's midfield and how, specifically, he considered Arsène Wenger had failed them with his transfer business.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/dec/07/manchester-united-arsene-wenger-midfield


----------



## Dr. Furface (Dec 8, 2013)

big eejit said:


> Thing is Man U may generate a lot of income, but they're being milked dry by their 'investors'. With their current business model I don't think they can afford to compete.


Good point. When the Glazers bought United they were able to do so because their investors financed them on the back of the club's profitability, which is based on assets such as stadium income, tv revenues, sponsorships and advertising deals, as well as United's massive fanbase and global reach. But the club's greatest asset was Ferguson because he made it all happen. Without him, or someone who can produce similar success, the Glazers cash cow is looking a lot less healthy and they simply can't afford for the club to not at the very least qualify for the Champions Lg for more than one season. In fact, even failing to qualify for just one season would be a severe dent in the club's reputation and brand status, not to mention their finances. United as they're currently financed are like a football Ponzi scheme, where everything seems fine when times are good, but disastrous when they're not.


----------



## chilango (Dec 8, 2013)

This isn't a transition, it's a collapse.

He's got till Christmas IMO.

There's a few "easier" games between now and then then. Another loss or two before the Jan window and I think there will be a very discounted dressing room and some very itchy trigger fingers in the boardroom.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 8, 2013)




----------



## Gingerman (Dec 8, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> It was said even before he went that Ferguson was seriously papering over the cracks and it was a further testament to his skills that he produced a title-winning season from that squad/back-room situation.


Maybe he knew the writing was on the wall and got out while the going was good,even he must have known the team last season was probably the poorest he's managed to win a title with......


----------



## Joe Reilly (Dec 8, 2013)

agricola said:


> The only thing Moist can really be blamed for is buying Fellaini when it was obvious he would never play in his best position; everything else - the standard of the midfield, the age of the defence, Ashley Young etc - was there when he arrived.
> 
> If he is still there in January then they should just do what they should have done in the summer - ie: buy Herrera and Coentrao - and they will rocket back up the league.


 
What Moyes can be blamed for is ditching the experience of the background staff for a no-hopers. The real question is why Utd let him do it?

It's not as if Moyes had a gun to their head is it?

The problem is as now when things for wrong - as now - will the likes of RVP, Rooney, Vidic, Evra etc welcome taking advice from Steve Bound?
Or Phil Neville for that matter?

Fellani might looks like he's playing in divers boots but that is not the problem with the midfield. Personell apart, it is the insistence on playing two in the middle when everyone else has three. So even it was Keane and Scholes in there there would still be problems. As Kagawa was meant to be the creative solution but is plainly not strong enough for a two man midfield, why then persevere with two wideman when not one of them, is capable on present form, of delivering? Nani, Young, Valencia, Kagawa, have hardly an assist much less a goal between them.

The only conclusion is that the Moyes regime lack of bottle to change the system for fear of being accused of 'not playing in the utd way'.

And that is because his advisors feel out of their depth. Damning.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 8, 2013)

peterkro said:


> With a change of manager after all these years an off season is to be expected,*don't forget some supporters who are not johhny come latelys *have seen us down in the second division before.Moyes does look out of his depth but then pretty much anyone would.If he's not getting a team and his strategy together by mid next season he may be on the way out.Any success this year in what ever competition should be seen as a bonus.



who he?


----------



## peterkro (Dec 8, 2013)

The39thStep said:


> who he?


That would be me,archetypical,grew up pretty much as far from Manchester as it's possible to be.Playing in the under sevens Western Suburbs team about the time of Munich,just playing football was a admission of treason around there and surprise surprise Man U seemed the team to support.The only first division team I saw in NZ was Nottingham Forest play the All Whites some time in the early sixties.(they slaughtered the All Whites as you'd expect)


----------



## spacemonkey (Dec 15, 2013)

Massive respect to Darren Fletcher for coming back to put on a United shirt today. As a fellow ulcerative colitis sufferer I was pessimistic that he'd ever play at the top level again. Especially after he underwent surgery. He would've gone through some extremely dark days (mostly stuck on the toilet!!). Testament to his character and the skill of the doctors and training staff. Gives me hope for the future! Get in lad.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 16, 2013)

Olympiakos ,away then at home.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Dec 22, 2013)

Sourly amused to see the furore over Januzai's supposed dives against West Ham. In the first place there he suffered a blatant push by Noble in the area when zeroing in on goal. No whistle. Emboldened by the incompetence of the officials both Noble and Collins cynically castigate _him_ for 'cheating'. On the next occasion Januzai effortlessly slips past Collins on the half way line, but also jumps over a late lunge from Collins - which never comes. He goes to ground. There is no advantage in Januzai doing so, as all he has done is concede possession unnecessarily.

But this time there is a whistle. But as there was no foul and no pretence of one, why was play stopped?

In order to book Januzai for 'cheating' of course. Cue chorus of it being 'something he has to cut out of his game'. What complete bollocks.


----------



## Dandred (Dec 22, 2013)

Should we call the waaaabalance for you?


----------



## Ole (Dec 24, 2013)

editor said:


> Barely any manager gets to be in the same job for 20 years - and that's because most managers don't even get close to Ferguson's genius. I never much liked the guy, but he's easily one of the best managers the world has ever seen.





Favelado said:


> *Except in Europe.*



Is that right? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UEFA_club_competition_winning_managers

You utter mug.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 24, 2013)

Ole said:


> Is that right?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UEFA_club_competition_winning_managers
> 
> You mug.



2 CL's in that many seasons at such a massive club is a mediocre return. He knows it too.


----------



## leanderman (Dec 24, 2013)

Favelado said:


> 2 CL's in that many seasons at such a massive club is a mediocre return. He knows it too.




It's a lottery really. Utd have twice lost ties to weaker teams because of stupid sendings-off, twice losing on away goals and once because Cantona missed a series of sitters. 

The luck they may have had at home deserted them in Europe. 

Having said that, the two wins were marginal affairs. I was at the first.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 24, 2013)

leanderman said:


> The luck/(referees?) they may have had at home deserted them in Europe.


----------



## Ole (Dec 24, 2013)

Favelado said:


> 2 CL's in that many seasons at such a massive club is a mediocre return. He knows it too.


 The numbers are right there. He's at the top of the bastard table. Couldn't do it in Europe. 



goldenecitrone said:


> the wefawees


It's just not fair is it? 20 times.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 24, 2013)

leanderman said:


> It's a lottery really. Utd have twice lost ties to weaker teams because of stupid sendings-off, twice losing on away goals and once because Cantona missed a series of sitters.
> 
> The luck they may have had at home deserted them in Europe.
> 
> Having said that, the two wins were marginal affairs. I was at the first.



Away goals isn't really bad luck, it's a basic rule. Getting sent off may or may not be unlucky but hasn't happened to United more than  any other club. Cantona missing open goals would be rare instances of his incompetence rather than bad luck. You could analyse most major club's history and find that kind of "bad luck" if you wanted. Especially Barcelona's. Penalties in one finals and a last-gasp winner after being behind for 97% of the game in another would definitely balance out any misfortune if I'm kind and accept what you say though.

By the way Ole , when people talk about "in Europe" for the purposes of comparion of greatness they are generally talking about the CL at a push The Europa League; not the Cuppy Cup, The strange Monaco trinket Supercup or other UEFA oddities.


----------



## Ole (Dec 24, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Away goals isn't really bad luck, it's a basic rule. Getting sent off may or may not be unlucky but hasn't happened to United more than  any other club. Cantona missing open goals would be rare instances of his incompetence rather than bad luck. You could analyse most major club's history and find that kind of "bad luck" if you wanted. Especially Barcelona's. Penalties in one finals and a last-gasp winner after being behind for 97% of the game in another would definitely balance out any misfortune if I'm kind and accept what you say though.
> 
> By the way Ole , when people say "in Europe" they are generally talking about the CL at a push The Europa League; not the Club World Championship, The strange Monaco trinket Supercup or other UEFA oddities.



Erm, the Club World Championship is a FIFA trophy. That's not the "CWC".

Don't you know what the Cup Winner's Cup is? 

It's hardly an 'oddity' it's the second most prestigious cup after Big Ears.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 24, 2013)

Ole said:


> The numbers are right there. He's at the top of the bastard table. Couldn't do it in Europe.
> 
> 
> It's just not fair is it? 20 times.



Let me just be more specific to help you out then. Alex Ferguson wasn't very good at the very highest level, namely the Champions League. Even he would agree with that. He's on the record bemoaning United's European record. This is the premier European competition. When I said he wasn't great in Europe, this is what I meant. 

Guardiola won it twice in what, 4 seasons? Ferguson twice in 20 odd. Paisley 3 in 5.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 24, 2013)

Ole said:


> Erm, the Club World Championship is a FIFA trophy. That's not the "CWC".
> 
> Don't you know what the Cup Winner's Cup is?
> 
> It's hardly an 'oddity' it's the second most prestigious cup after Big Ears.



I fucked up there. You're right. I edited after. The Cuppy Cup doesn't exist anymore and was never very prestigious. So you're mixing it up with the Europa League then?


----------



## Ole (Dec 24, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Let me just be more specific to help you out then. Alex Ferguson wasn't very good at the very highest level, namely the Champions League. Even he would agree with that. He's on the record bemoaning United's European record. This is the premier European competition. When I said he wasn't great in Europe, this is what I meant.
> 
> Guardiola won it twice in what, 4 seasons? Ferguson twice in 20 odd. Paisley 3 in 5.


This is hardly the first time I've seen someone use a per annum argument to detract from Ferguson's record in Europe. He has said we should have won the European Cup more times - I, and most nearly everyone would agree with him.

By that same rationale, 'should' he have won the Cup Winners Cup with Aberdeen?

Mediocre ffs.



Favelado said:


> I fucked up there. You're right. I edited after. The Cuppy Cup doesn't exist anymore and was never very prestigious. So you're mixing it up with the Europa League then?


Eh? No, I am not mixing it up with anything.

European Cup
Cup Winner's Cup
UEFA Cup

in that order.

The Cup Winner's Cup only declined in prestige when the Champion's League started taking in non-champions.


----------



## leanderman (Dec 24, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Away goals isn't really bad luck, it's a basic rule. Getting sent off may or may not be unlucky but hasn't happened to United more than  any other club. Cantona missing open goals would be rare instances of his incompetence rather than bad luck. You could analyse most major club's history and find that kind of "bad luck" if you wanted. Especially Barcelona's. Penalties in one finals and a last-gasp winner after being behind for 97% of the game in another would definitely balance out any misfortune if I'm kind and accept what you say though.
> 
> By the way Ole , when people talk about "in Europe" for the purposes of comparion of greatness they are generally talking about the CL at a push The Europa League; not the Cuppy Cup, The strange Monaco trinket Supercup or other UEFA oddities.



But there is no statistical reason why United should not have more 'bad luck' than other clubs over a period of time. 

Though does not prove my contention. 

The Rafael and Nani sendings-off were extraordinary. 

Still, maybe a great coach would have steadied his team and held on.


----------



## leanderman (Dec 24, 2013)

Favelado said:


> Away goals isn't really bad luck, it's a basic rule. Getting sent off may or may not be unlucky but hasn't happened to United more than  any other club. Cantona missing open goals would be rare instances of his incompetence rather than bad luck. You could analyse most major club's history and find that kind of "bad luck" if you wanted. Especially Barcelona's. Penalties in one finals and a last-gasp winner after being behind for 97% of the game in another would definitely balance out any misfortune if I'm kind and accept what you say though.
> 
> By the way Ole , when people talk about "in Europe" for the purposes of comparion of greatness they are generally talking about the CL at a push The Europa League; not the Cuppy Cup, The strange Monaco trinket Supercup or other UEFA oddities.



The away goals rule needs rethinking


----------



## LiamO (Dec 24, 2013)

leanderman said:


> The away goals rule needs rethinking



yes. That would stop the away team's attacking in such a cavalier fashion and make the game so much more interesting to watch, wouldn't it?


----------



## leanderman (Dec 24, 2013)

LiamO said:


> yes. That would stop the away team's attacking in such a cavalier fashion and make the game so much more interesting to watch, wouldn't it?



Does it really work though? What comparison do we have?


----------



## Favelado (Dec 24, 2013)

leanderman said:


> But there is no statistical reason why United should not have more 'bad luck' than other clubs over a period of time.
> 
> Though does not prove my contention.
> 
> ...



The sending off against Madrid was fair enough. There are plenty of similar ones.
btw I forgot to say congrats on being there in Barcelona. Probably a quite a decent night out after the game then?

A good point that was made after Fergie's retirement in the Spanish press was unlike say Sacchi, he never brought anything tactically to the game in all of his years. He was a  great motivator and got teams playing out of their skins but he was often out-thought by rival managers in the CL.



leanderman said:


> The away goals rule needs rethinking



It is unfair yet, as with penalties, it does create exciting situations and I'm fairly happy with it's inequities as such.



> He has said we should have won the European Cup more times - I, and most nearly everyone would agree with him.



So we're in agreement that he underperformed in the highest level club competition that exists. He had a good yet ultimately disappointing record in the Champions League. He couldn't cut it tactically against some of his peers and there was only so far that playing your heart out for the badge could get him against Barcelona et al. Aberdeen achievement was fantastic but Sacchi, Guardiola, Del Bosque and Paisley all better in the game's elite club tournament.


----------



## Favelado (Dec 24, 2013)

Anyway, turns out the M62 is 700 miles long. Have a good Christmas regardless.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Dec 26, 2013)

Looks like United players had a lot to drink yesterday. Two nil down after 12 minutes lol.


----------



## Fez909 (Dec 26, 2013)

2-2! Sounds like it could be a good match


----------



## leanderman (Dec 26, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> 2-2! Sounds like it could be a good match



Entertaining. 

But Ashley Young ... Aarghh!


----------



## Big Gunz (Dec 26, 2013)

Has Steve Bruce ever won a game against you lot as a manager?


----------



## leanderman (Dec 27, 2013)

Big Gunz said:


> Has Steve Bruce ever won a game against you lot as a manager?



No


----------



## Big Gunz (Dec 27, 2013)

leanderman said:


> No



Still licking Fergies arse after all these years eh?


----------



## leanderman (Dec 28, 2013)

Big Gunz said:


> Still licking Fergies arse after all these years eh?



Never a fan of Ferguson. Nasty piece of work.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 1, 2014)

Chumps innit


----------



## Dandred (Jan 1, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Chumps innit



You have to give credit for that!


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 2, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Sourly amused to see the furore over Januzai's supposed dives against West Ham. In the first place there he suffered a blatant push by Noble in the area when zeroing in on goal. No whistle. Emboldened by the incompetence of the officials both Noble and Collins cynically castigate _him_ for 'cheating'. On the next occasion Januzai effortlessly slips past Collins on the half way line, but also jumps over a late lunge from Collins - which never comes. He goes to ground. There is no advantage in Januzai doing so, as all he has done is concede possession unnecessarily.
> 
> But this time there is a whistle. But as there was no foul and no pretence of one, why was play stopped?
> 
> In order to book Januzai for 'cheating' of course. Cue chorus of it being 'something he has to cut out of his game'. What complete bollocks.



Yet another bizarre booking for Januzai today. Cutting in from the right he beats one Spurs defender and then slips past Dannny Rose who barges him to the ground. Howard Webb has to wave play on as even Spurs players have stopped in anticipation of the whistle, then later on books Januzai for 'simulation'. Nuts.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 2, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Yet another bizarre booking for Januzai today. Cutting in from the right he beats one Spurs defender and then slips past Dannny Rose who barges him to the ground. Howard Webb has to wave play on as even Spurs players have stopped in anticipation of the whistle, then later on books Januzai for 'simulation'.
> 
> Mirror hack, Martin Lipton reckoned that Welbeck should have been booked for what it turns out was a genuine trip, while he described Januzai as 'shameful'. Given that lack of objectivity you suspect he simply has to be a scouser!


----------



## deadringer (Jan 2, 2014)

Don't forget the fixture list was deliberately conspired against you by the FA at the start of the season too. That's also why your struggling. Just can't seem to catch a break eh.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 2, 2014)

deadringer said:


> Don't forget the fixture list was deliberately conspired against you by the FA at the start of the season too. That's also why your struggling. Just can't seem to catch a break eh.


I thought that happened most years?


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 3, 2014)

deadringer said:


> Don't forget the fixture list was deliberately conspired against you by the FA at the start of the season too. That's also why your struggling. Just can't seem to catch a break eh.



The referees have been terrible for Man Utd this season, at times it feels that they are only playing with eleven men .


----------



## Wilf (Jan 3, 2014)

For Utd fans with long memories (I'm 52) it's like reconnecting with the emotions of the 70s and 80s - having a reasonable team but knowing it's not quite happening, going into games thinking there's only a 50/50 chance of winning, a weird balance of optimism that it must get better and pessimism that it won't...

Fuck, is this what it's been like for all the other teams for the last 20 years?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 3, 2014)

Wilf said:


> For Utd fans with long memories (I'm 52) it's like reconnecting with the emotions of the 70s and 80s - having a reasonable team but knowing it's not quite happening, going into games thinking there's only a 50/50 chance of winning, a weird balance of optimism that it must get better and pessimism that it won't...
> 
> Fuck, is this what it's been like for all the other teams for the last 20 years?


Welcome to mid-table mediocrity


----------



## Wilf (Jan 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Welcome to mid-table mediocrity


 It's a serious psychological trauma - and it's creating work for counsellors and therapists all across Manchester Surrey.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 3, 2014)

Wilf said:


> It's a serious psychological trauma - and it's creating work for counsellors and therapists all across Manchester Surrey.


Not to mention Scandinavia.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Not to mention Scandinavia.


 No sun for 6 months and now _this_...


----------



## TruXta (Jan 3, 2014)

Wilf said:


> No sun for 6 months and now _this_...


Suicide rates are through the roof.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 3, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Suicide rates are through the roof.


At least Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's found a stress free, happy way out. Oh...


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 5, 2014)

Old Trafford is emptying quickly.


----------



## Voley (Jan 5, 2014)

Hard luck Man U. I really feel sorry for you.


----------



## Big Gunz (Jan 5, 2014)

No Fergie no hope!


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 5, 2014)

It would be best to sack him now to give the incoming manager time to buy some players. I'm not usually one for calling to sack the manager but it's not looking good for Moyes. Yet another manager moving from a successful position with a smaller club to going on to ruin his reputation with failure.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 5, 2014)

Now, now Fez. Let's not get too hasty. I think Moyes should be given as long as he needs, decades if necessary, to turn this around.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 5, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> It would be best to sack him now to give the incoming manager time to buy some players. I'm not usually one for calling to sack the manager but it's not looking good for Moyes. Yet another manager moving from a successful position with a smaller club to going on to ruin his reputation with failure.


If it hadn't been for getting them through in the champions league I suspect he might have been sacked in the last 10 minutes (at least if there was an alternative lined up).


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 5, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Now, now Fez. Let's not get too hasty. I think Moyes should be given as long as he needs, decades if necessary, to turn this around.


While I'm happy to see united lose their dominant position, I quite like Moyes and don't want to see his reputation suffer any more.


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 5, 2014)

Wilf said:


> If it hadn't been for getting them through in the champions league I suspect he might have been sacked in the last 10 minutes (at least if there was an alternative lined up).


Sort of agree.

You get the bulk Champions league money as soon as you reach the group stages I believe, so they're not earning much more by being in the knockout stage unless they go on to win it. Getting back into the Champions league next year is more important than going further this year. Not being in Europe at all would be a disaster.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 5, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> While I'm happy to see united lose their dominant position, I quite like Moyes and don't want to see his reputation suffer any more.



The worst that could happen would be a multi-million payoff and a move to West Ham or similar club within a few months. I wouldn't worry about him.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 5, 2014)

Even as a Utd fan I'm not much of a watcher of the club.  However the club don't _seem_ very leaky when it comes to Moyes position. Presume that's partly because the Glazers don't speak to members of the human race, even when they come out of their coffins.  However I've not even heard anything along the lines of 'he's got till February'.


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 5, 2014)

Just checked the figures for last seasons Champions league: Manu got to the knockout stages and received £30.5m. Manc didn't win a match and got £24.7m.

Even if they'd gone further they wouldn't have earned as much as the other clubs as the payment structure isn't good for English teams at the minute. And there's four clubs to share the TV money with.

Bayern got £47.3m.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 5, 2014)

Wonder if Joe Kinnear would consider a Director of Football role?


----------



## Favelado (Jan 5, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Wonder if Joe Kinnear would consider a Director of Football role?



Nobody knows more about ******* football than Joe and anyone who says otherwise is a ******* ****.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 5, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Nobody knows more about ******* football than Joe and anyone who says otherwise is a ******* ****.


Indeed - Manager of the Year 17 times - the facts don't lie.


----------



## CosmikRoger (Jan 5, 2014)

Wouldn't it be cool if Manchester Utd finished eighth in the league but won the Champions league, taking fourth placed Liverpool's place in the next years competition.
I've always been a bit of an ABUer, but I dislike Liverpool just a demi micron less.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 5, 2014)

How moving it was to hear so many Utd fans on 5 live sport calling for Moyes to be sacked and to bring back Fergie for the rest of the season.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 5, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> How moving it was to hear so many Utd fans on 5 live sport calling for Moyes to be sacked and to bring back Fergie for the rest of the season.



Is it still called 606 that programme? It's the worst of every club's fans. The ones from your own club, whichever one that may be, make you cringe.


----------



## thriller (Jan 5, 2014)

Someone change the fucking idiotic thread title to just "Manchester United 2013-14".


----------



## T & P (Jan 5, 2014)

Not that I think it'd be a mistake


Favelado said:


> Is it still called 606 that programme? It's the worst of every club's fans. The ones from your own club, whichever one that may be, make you cringe.


Talksport's equivalent programme is even worse.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 5, 2014)

thriller said:


> Someone change the fucking idiotic thread title to just "Manchester United 2013-14".


Well, perhaps you could put in a polite request for someone to change the Man City 2012-13 thread title, of which this is a cheeky repeat.


----------



## imposs1904 (Jan 6, 2014)

Is AVB still out of work?


----------



## Favelado (Jan 6, 2014)

imposs1904 said:


> Is AVB still out of work?



Despite his failures, you get the feeling that he could do a very good job if actually given a couple of seasons.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

Give Moyes all the time he needs! At least a decade, please.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Give Moyes all the time he needs! At least a decade, please.



Ferguson won't admit a mistake easily.


----------



## chilango (Jan 6, 2014)

I don't want to talk about this.



I just want a hint of a reason to look forward to next season.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

chilango said:


> I don't want to talk about this.
> 
> 
> 
> I just want a hint of a reason to look forward to next season.


Still only half-way tho. I'll be intrigued to see Man U's form over the latter half of the season. Traditionally this is when you stamp your mark on the league. And you're only 5 points off Liverpool in 4th.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Still only half-way tho. I'll be intrigued to see Man U's form over the latter half of the season. Traditionally this is when you stamp your mark on the league. And you're only 5 points off Liverpool in 4th.



True. 

Liverpool look like the weak gazelle to be picked off. But I would not bet on it.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> True.
> 
> Liverpool look like the weak gazelle to be picked off. But I would not bet on it.


I actually think we'll get back to winning ways again - Sturridge is coming back and Gerrard has already returned.


----------



## chilango (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Still only half-way tho. I'll be intrigued to see Man U's form over the latter half of the season. Traditionally this is when you stamp your mark on the league. And you're only 5 points off Liverpool in 4th.



i know. there's nothing to suggest our play or results Will get any better though. i could take losing if we were playing the kids or trying new tactics or learning a new system or something. 

its just dire though.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

chilango said:


> i know. there's nothing to suggest our play or results Will get any better though. i could take losing if we were playing the kids or trying new tactics or learning a new system or something.
> 
> its just dire though.


And long may it continue! Moyes forever!


----------



## chilango (Jan 6, 2014)

TruXta said:


> And long may it continue! Moyes forever!



Heh.

serves us right for gloating about Rafa....and Dalgleish....and Hodgson....


----------



## leanderman (Jan 6, 2014)

chilango said:


> Heh.
> 
> serves us right for gloating about Rafa....and Dalgleish....and Hodgson....



My sole concern is that Liverpool suffer the same 26-year league title drought. 

Which means they must not win this year, or next.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 6, 2014)

We've no chance of winning the league this year, probably not next year either.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2014)




----------



## Wilf (Jan 6, 2014)

Spymaster said:


>


 Manchester United, brought to you by the letters L-E-V-E-R-A-G-E-D-B-U-Y-O-U-T and the numbes £790,000,000.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 7, 2014)

So, just how important is the League Cup match tonight? If you lot lose this I can see what support remains for Moyes starting to crumble rapidly.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 7, 2014)

Should be ok, over two legs.


----------



## chilango (Jan 7, 2014)

TruXta said:


> So, just how important is the League Cup match tonight? If you lot lose this I can see what support remains for Moyes starting to crumble rapidly.



We'll win tonight.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 7, 2014)

chilango said:


> We'll win tonight.


Will you now?


----------



## chilango (Jan 7, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Will you now?



I expect so. Playing poorly. 1-0 via a dive-won pen. 

Then either lose at home in the 2nd leg or be humiliated by City in the final.

This is going to drag on for a while rather reach a swift denouement.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 7, 2014)

chilango said:


> I expect so. Playing poorly.
> 
> Then either lose at home in the 2nd leg or be humiliated by City in the final.
> 
> This is going to drag on for a whole rather reach a swift denouement.



I would love it LOVE IT if you got to the final and were decimated by City.


Sorry.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 7, 2014)

i wonder how long it will be before a kindly mod.replaces the first a in the thread title with a u


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 7, 2014)

chilango said:


> We'll win tonight.


shurely 'whine tonight'


----------



## chilango (Jan 7, 2014)

But not "wine tonight" for the managers. Not anymore.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 7, 2014)

chilango said:


> We'll win tonight.


Did you now?


----------



## chilango (Jan 7, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Did you now?



 Ffs.

Surely his time is up now?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 7, 2014)

Nah. Won't get pushed, too proud to resign.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 7, 2014)

Anyway - who's in your sights this window? Surely there must be someone? OTOH who'd wanna go to a team that has gone from Champions to Shite in such a short time? It's not really an obvious career move for top players to move to OT at the present time.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 7, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Anyway - who's in your sights this window?


 I've booked a spot at the Dignitas Clinic.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2014)

Utd really are truly fucked.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 7, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I've booked a spot at the Dignitas Clinic.


Come come, now is the time to stand behind your club and manager.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 7, 2014)

Moyes is running out of legs to stand on. Well played the Makems.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 7, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Should be ok, over two legs.



You reckon?

Any truth in the rumour that tickets for United's home games are now available on Groupon?


----------



## Voley (Jan 7, 2014)

My commiserations, Man Utd. My heart really goes out to each and every one of you.


----------



## Yelkcub (Jan 7, 2014)

Ref at fault again apparently
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25647570


----------



## Voley (Jan 7, 2014)

Yelkcub said:


> Ref at fault again apparently
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25647570


Good quote there. I'll try not to take it out of context:



> "It's really terrible. We're actually beginning to laugh at them."


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 7, 2014)

NVP said:


> Good quote there. I'll try not to take it out of context:



Moyes is properly losing it!


----------



## TruXta (Jan 7, 2014)

He's no Darth Vader to Fergie's Emperor.


----------



## Dandred (Jan 8, 2014)

This season just keeps giving and giving!


----------



## Dandred (Jan 8, 2014)

NVP said:


> Good quote there. I'll try not to take it out of context:



Someone hasn't been keeping up with their referfees like whiskey breath did.


----------



## gabi (Jan 8, 2014)

He didn't exactly inherit the strongest of squads. Bit of a hospital pass from Ferg - but still. Incomprehensible that Jose wasn't hired, considering he was available and has always coveted the job.


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 8, 2014)




----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2014)

chilango said:


> We'll win tonight.



*sighs*

For fucks sake...

I'm almost at the point of hoping we lose to Swansea just to get this over with.

Almost.

But I bet he'd still not be sacked.

Which is good in a way. At least we're trying to do the "right thing" by him. 

However, I think now it's best for Moyes, as well as us, to say "enough". This must be killing him.

Shame. It was a nice idea.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 8, 2014)

No gain without pain. Give him another couple of years.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 8, 2014)

gabi said:


> He didn't exactly inherit the strongest of squads. Bit of a hospital pass from Ferg - but still. Incomprehensible that Jose wasn't hired, considering he was available and has always coveted the job.



I do understand the reasons for picking Moyes. The idea being that he would stick around for years and years rather than the 3 or 4 you usually get out of José. The other factors are the controversies Mourinho generates (poking cancer patients in the eye live on television), as well as the theory going around that he tends to exhaust the club he's at after a couple of years. He's brilliant but leaves the team dry like a squeezed orange after a certain amount of time.

The trouble is, plan Moyes isn't working and Mourinho's faults are starting to look appealing in comparison. Additionally, he hasn't kicked much shit up at Stamford Bridge this time round and he looks like the one that got away.


----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2014)

Favelado said:


> I do understand the reasons for picking Moyes. The idea being that he would stick around for years and years rather than the 3 or 4 you usually get out of José. The other factors are the controversies Mourinho generates (poking cancer patients in the eye live on television), as well as the theory going around that he tends to exhaust the club he's at after a couple of years. He's brilliant but leaves the team dry like a squeezed orange after a certain amount of time.
> 
> The trouble is, plan Moyes isn't working and Mourinho's faults are starting to look appealing in comparison. Additionally, he hasn't kicked much shit up at Stamford Bridge this time round and he looks like the one that got away.



I always thought bring Mourinho in first, he's got big enough balls to follow Fergie and the ego/arrogance to deal with that once in a lifetime challenge. Then, when/if he fucks off or gets fucked off bring Moyes in for the longer term with a hell of a lot less pressure.

But what do I know?

What I do know is that it ain't 1986 anymore and in "modern football" clubs literally can't afford to give managers years to build. 

Realistically Moyes was always going to get a couple of seasons at least/most of "transition time".

But I'm betting no one planned for the collapse we're witnessing, that shows no sign of abating, that instead appears to gather pace game by game.

I don't see us starting next season with him if this continues.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

I think when people say "Fergie got 4-5 years before winning" they forget (or don't know) that he inherited a lower-half team that weren't exactly setting the world on fire. Whereas all the expectations in the world are resting on Moyes' shoulders. So not a fair comparison imo.


----------



## editor (Jan 8, 2014)

Yelkcub said:


> Ref at fault again apparently
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25647570


That's a quality whinge, alright.


----------



## poului (Jan 8, 2014)

Love the sense of entitlement here about Mourinho. The blind assumption that he'd take the job above all others had it been offered to him on the basis of no evidence whatsoever.


----------



## gabi (Jan 8, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/26/jose-mourinho-cried-manchester-united

He would have taken it


----------



## poului (Jan 8, 2014)

gabi said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/sep/26/jose-mourinho-cried-manchester-united
> 
> He would have taken it



Yep, no evidence whatsoever.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 8, 2014)

poului said:


> Love the sense of entitlement here about Mourinho. The blind assumption that he'd take the job above all others had it been offered to him on the basis of no evidence whatsoever.



Evidence is anecdotal but there was tonnes of it going around and there was the pre-United game "job interview" he did. Look, I'm a Liverpool fan and I'm certainly not sticking up for the Salford Abonimation here but I think he wanted it big-time.


----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2014)

United were seriously considering offering it to him (word is the board was split between him and Moyes, Fergie and Charlton preferring Moyes) and of course he would've taken it.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 8, 2014)

Favelado said:


> The trouble is, plan Moyes isn't working and Mourinho's faults are starting to look appealing in comparison.


HAve faith! man u might still finish 5th....with a fair wind 4th....dreaming is what football is all about


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 8, 2014)

Yelkcub said:


> Ref at fault again apparently
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25647570



Objectively, something foreign to most on here I know, but there have been some rather odd decisions of late. But officials making up the 12th man or not, starting with Cleverly means you are already a man down, and starting with 10 anyway. 

Has anyone else noticed the irritated little jig he does after a misplaced pass or surrender of possession (of which there were surely a record amount last night) -  as if in having missed his target, every one else, including the opposition, share in the anguish and also stop playing? 
Several seconds go by before he turns to face play and reluctantly trudges back, still shaking his head in a distracted self-absorbed fashion. 

It would be like Andy Murray berating himself for a missed opportunity in the midst of a rally. 
When Jones is fit, and if Fletcher is hopefully fully recovered, that will leave them competing with Carrick and Fellani in for two places in the centre. So even without any additions to the dept in January, it is unlikely he will ever start a game again. He's not a Premier footballer much less a Utd one. 

And even though Utd are stricken by injuries losing Evans might be a blessing - as it should allow Smalling and Vidic, the most natural pairing to my mind,  to develop a partnership in defence.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 8, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Objectively, something foreign to most on here I know, but there have been some rather odd decisions of late.


are you suggesting Man U are the only team to get decisions go against them? Or being targetted in some way>?


chilango said:


> What I do know is that it ain't 1986 anymore and in "modern football" clubs literally can't afford to give managers years to build.


supporting a team whilst worrying about their business model, with victories equalling income is the death of football


----------



## Favelado (Jan 8, 2014)

ska invita said:


> HAve faith! man u might still finish 5th....with a fair wind 4th....dreaming is what football is all about



I'm living the dream now! Kopites have waited 2 decades for this!


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

After years and years of intimidating refs as much as teams it's fucking lovely to see that with Fergie gone, not every blow of the whistle goes in favour of the Manc reds


----------



## Favelado (Jan 8, 2014)

TruXta said:


> After years and years of intimidating refs as much as teams it's fucking lovely to see that with Fergie gone, not every blow of the whistle goes in favour of the Manc reds



Solskjaer is coming to come on as a sub for Cardiff in the 96th minute of United's last home game in the 2014/2015 season and score the winner that relegates them, thus restoring universal balance.


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 8, 2014)

editor said:


> That's a quality whinge, alright.


He's losing the plot


----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2014)

ska invita said:


> supporting a team whilst worrying about their business model, with victories equalling income is the death of football



Football, as it was, is dead anyway.

I remember, as I'm sure Joe Reilly and others here do, when the United anti-fascist fanzine _Red Attitude_ stopped publishing citing the impact of Murdoch/Sky etc. as a major factor.

Yet, no matter how much my head tells me that I'm "against modern football" my heart keeps me glued to it.

Supporting a football club isn't, it turns out, an intellectual decision.


----------



## mack (Jan 8, 2014)

Don't think we can embed vines? Lazy Llama

But this just says it all!

https://vine.co/v/h3uh7A0vjY5


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

Ha!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 8, 2014)

mack said:


> Don't think we can embed vines? Lazy Llama


You can now


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 8, 2014)

Dislike


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

Top work, Lazy Llama. Not sure I see the overall point of Vine tho?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 8, 2014)

stupid dogbot said:


> Dislike


Yeah, I'm going to see if I can disable the auto-play at least..

Seems Vine don't want to allow non-autoplay so I think we'll drop it for now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2014)

chilango said:


> Supporting a football club isn't, it turns out, an intellectual decision.


for many manchester united fans, all the glory-hunters who've jumped on the bandwagon over the years, it was.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 8, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Yeah, I'm going to see if I can disable the auto-play at least..
> 
> Seems Vine don't want to allow non-autoplay so I think we'll drop it for now.



Lazy Llama Nah, only cos it was on this thread, which I am sworn to avoid.

I hate football.


----------



## poului (Jan 8, 2014)

chilango said:


> and of course he would've taken it.



And again!

This is like the string of assertions that Chelsea were in pursuit of Guardiola, all based on a series of tabloid articles that would open with the line "a source close to Abramovich..."

You don't it might have occurred to him that taking the United job would have been a poisoned chalice then?


----------



## ska invita (Jan 8, 2014)

chilango said:


> Yet, no matter how much my head tells me that I'm "against modern football" my heart keeps me glued to it.
> 
> Supporting a football club isn't, it turns out, an intellectual decision.


 
in which case savour the taste of struggle and failure for once!  good old days


----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2014)

poului said:


> And again!
> 
> This is like the string of assertions that Chelsea were in pursuit of Guardiola, all based on a series of tabloid articles that would open with the line "a source close to Abramovich..."
> 
> You don't it might have occurred to him that taking the United job would have been a poisoned chalice then?



Unfortunately none of us are going to be able to wave a clipboard of facts around about this question...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2014)

chilango said:


> Unfortunately none of us are going to be able to wave a clipboard of facts around about this question...


speak for yourself. i am waving a clipboard of facts even as i type.


----------



## chilango (Jan 8, 2014)

ska invita said:


> in which case savour the taste of struggle and failure for once!  good old days




...for once?

pah. i lived thru the 80s. in fact i actually had a season ticket when we were in division 2 (though i was only a year old!)

i did also go and watch Cardiff City week in week out in the fourth division.

thanks, but i quite enjoyed the winning years!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 8, 2014)

chilango said:


> thanks, but i quite *enjoyed* the winning years!


----------



## poului (Jan 8, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> speak for yourself. i am waving a clipboard of facts even as i type.



Bit too much information there.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 8, 2014)

ska invita said:


> are you suggesting Man U are the only team to get decisions go against them? Or being targetted in some way>?



Who is the biggest cheat/diver in the history of English Football?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2014)

Christiano Ronaldo.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

No h ffs


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2014)

TruXta said:


> No h ffs



Fair play. I'd never noticed that.

It's still the correct answer!


----------



## TruXta (Jan 8, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Fair play. I'd never noticed that.
> 
> It's still the correct answer!


Goes without saying.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 8, 2014)

TruXta said:


> After years and years of intimidating refs as much as teams it's fucking lovely to see that with Fergie gone, not every blow of the whistle goes in favour of the Manc reds


It's worth noting that the 17 most recent penalties in Man utd games in the league have gone to utd. How many have they had this season?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 8, 2014)

Moyes Out! Sam Allardyce might be available soon.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 8, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Moyes Out! Sam Allardyce might be available soon.


could replace Rooney with AVB too


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Goes without saying.



As obvious as black and white.

Which makes me wonder if it was a trick question from Joe Reilly and the real answer is Ashley Young.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 8, 2014)

"Moyes fights to keep players on side: Three straight defeats lead to _some_ in dressing room fearing Man Utd _may_ miss out on Champions League"
 dya think?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 8, 2014)

poului said:


> Love the sense of entitlement here about Mourinho. The blind assumption that he'd take the job above all others had it been offered to him on the basis of no evidence whatsoever.



The evidence is firmly against chilango and gabi.

Fergie himself acknowledges in his book (a great read, btw), that Jose was Chelsea bound, and accepted that he was his most credible rival and good friend.

That "crying" stuff is generally accepted to be a load of old PL marketing shit. Even Red Nose has said it's bollocks.

You'd think that ManUre supporters would at least read their own manager's autobiography before wanking pish on the internet!

They had arguably the best manager in the history of football but football is cyclical and they've had their day. The future is City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal (not necessarily in that order).

Spurs and United will battle for upper-mid-table honours for the next 3 or 4 seasons. Hopefully THFC will win!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 9, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> The evidence is firmly against chilango and gabi.
> 
> That "crying" stuff is generally accepted to be a load of old PL marketing shit. Even Red Nose has said it's bollocks.



It was reported in Spain.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 9, 2014)

stupid dogbot said:


> It was reported in Spain.



In El Pais which is a decent newspaper - not in Marca or AS.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 9, 2014)

Really? I didn't know that. 

I wasn't actually arguing that it was true, necessarily, just that if it was made up, I didn't think it originated in the Premier League.


----------



## Dandred (Jan 9, 2014)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem_effect

*Golem effect*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The *golem effect* is a psychological phenomenon in which lower expectations placed upon individuals either by supervisors or the individual themselves lead to poorer performance by the individual. This effect is mostly seen and studied in educational and organizational environments. It can also be seen in sport, the perfect example being on show at Salford, where Gollum himself is currently destroying Manchester United. It's beautiful. It is a form of self-fulfilling prophecy.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Christiano Ronaldo.



Not world player of the year, no. 

With more bookings for diving than anyone else in Premier League history - step forward - Adnan Januzai.


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Who is the biggest cheat/diver in the history of English Football?



I'd like to see how this is established. After all Ronaldo gained numerous free kicks with swan dives more graceful than Tom Daly, but got the free kick/penalty. That doesn't however mean he didn't dive/cheat.

Are we looking at who has been booked the most for diving/simulation and basing it on that?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 9, 2014)

Fedayn said:


> I'd like to see how this is established. After all Ronaldo gained numerous free kicks with swan dives more graceful than Tom Daly, but got the free kick/penalty. That doesn't however mean he didn't dive/cheat.
> 
> Are we looking at who has been booked the most for diving/simulation and basing it on that?


See the post above yours.


----------



## Fedayn (Jan 9, 2014)

TruXta said:


> See the post above yours.



Aaah, it's a rather flawed, to put it mildly, 'poll' then frankly as it presumes that if the player never got a booking for diving he didn't cheat.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2014)

Fedayn said:


> Aaah, it's a rather flawed, to put it mildly, 'poll' then frankly as it presumes that if the player never got a booking for diving he didn't cheat.



Indeed. 

Ronaldo wins this by a country mile. Genuinely.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 9, 2014)

Fedayn said:


> Aaah, it's a rather flawed, to put it mildly, 'poll' then frankly as it presumes that if the player never got a booking for diving he didn't cheat.


It's bullcock as you say.


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> With more bookings for diving than anyone else in Premier League history - step forward - Adnan Januzai.


actually its Gareth Bale.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> actually its Gareth Bale.



How many bookings does he have for diving then?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> How many bookings does he have for diving then?


That wasn't the question you originally asked tho.


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> How many bookings does he have for diving then?


seven, four more than Janujaz


----------



## Yelkcub (Jan 9, 2014)

Are we now asking who's the best at cheating undetected by officialdom?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> seven, four more than Janujaz


In how many matches?


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> In how many matches?


rather more than Januzaj, obviously.  But that isn't what you said before, is it? 



Joe Reilly said:


> *With more bookings for diving than anyone else in Premier League history* - step forward - Adnan Januzai.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 9, 2014)

Yelkcub said:


> Are we now asking who's the best at cheating undetected by officialdom?


Fuck knows what Joe is on about.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Fuck knows what Joe is on about.



Januzia has already collected 3 bookings for 'simulation' in just 14 appearances so it rather puts Ronaldo, Suarez and Bale in the shade. 

I'm using the stat simply to illustrate, in answer to a previous question, the bizarre nature of some of the decisions Utd have suffered this season.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Januzia has already collected 3 bookings for 'simulation' in just 14 appearances so it rather puts Ronaldo, Suarez and Bale in the shade.
> 
> I'm using the stat simply to illustrate, in answer to a previous question, the bizarre nature of some of the decisions Utd have suffered this season.


It puts them in the shade? Why? As for bizarre decisions, cry on, it's only because refs are finally treating Man U like any other team that these so-called "bizarre" decisions have been made.


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2014)

And at least two of them were blates dives


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> And at least two of them were blates dives


Which two?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

TruXta said:


> It puts them in the shade? Why? As for bizarre decisions, cry on, it's only because refs are finally treating Man U like any other team that these so-called "bizarre" decisions have been made.



The penalty against Sunderland according to Steve Claridge and Leroy Rosenior should never have been given. Equally the penalty denied against Tottenham ( a dangerous high footed lunge that could have been a red card on it's own) was stonewall, according to Robbie Fowler and co on MOTD. The panel also agreed that the 'dive' by Januzia for which he was booked was just as clearly a pretty blatant push by Danny Rose. There was also the trip in the box on Welbeck in the same match which ought to also have been a pen..etc


----------



## Yelkcub (Jan 9, 2014)

Much like my good friend Corax's belief that Spurs had a stronger squad than Arsenal, only a football fan could bemoan Man U's luck with referees.


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Which two?


West ham and Sunderland. Spurs was harsh.

(E2a: but that's what happens when you get a rep. Suarez has been denied three penalties for the same reason)


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> I'm using the stat simply to illustrate, in answer to a previous question, the bizarre nature of some of the decisions Utd have suffered this season.



United are just finally having to play by the same rules as everyone else.

Funny as fuck you all feeling so hard done by now.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 9, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> United are just finally having to play by the same rules as everyone else.
> 
> Funny as fuck you all feeling so hard done by now.


 I find this celebration of level playing fields *most* distasteful.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> West ham and Sunderland. Spurs was harsh.
> 
> (E2a: but that's what happens when you get a rep. Suarez has been denied three penalties for the same reason)



A rep? Sunderland was his second game!


----------



## TruXta (Jan 9, 2014)

Fuck off Joe, have a look at pens for and against for your lot.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 9, 2014)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25670678

Manager of the month nomination for Moyes. I honestly hope he wins. Hilarious.


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> A rep? Sunderland was his second game!


And he blatantly dived, thus starting to create his reputation.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Fuck off Joe, have a look at pens for and against for your lot.



Specifically?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> And he blatantly dived, thus starting to create his reputation.



A single incident is enough to create a reputation is it?


----------



## Voley (Jan 9, 2014)

Favelado said:


> http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25670678
> 
> Manager of the month nomination for Moyes. I honestly hope he wins. Hilarious.


Same here. Similar levels of awesomeness as this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cel...-Act-Ever-at-the-MTV-Europe-Music-Awards.html


----------



## belboid (Jan 9, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> A single incident is enough to create a reputation is it?


Are you really this dim? You're more deluded than a Liverpool supporter.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> Are you really this dim? You're more deluded than a Liverpool supporter.



Deluded how?


----------



## big eejit (Jan 10, 2014)

My brother just walked past a charity shop in Guildford. They have a sign in the window - No more Man Utd shirts please!


----------



## Wilf (Jan 10, 2014)

big eejit said:


> My brother just walked past a charity shop in Guildford. They have a sign in the window - No more Man Utd shirts please!


  It's always best to buy when the market's at its lowest.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 10, 2014)

Moyes charged with misconduct.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/10/manchester-united-david-moyes-charged-misconduct-fa


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2014)

it's a conspiracy!


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 11, 2014)

big eejit said:


> My brother just walked past a charity shop in Guildford. They have a sign in the window - No more Man Utd shirts please!


----------



## Dandred (Jan 11, 2014)

Don't worry United supporters, I predict you will win comfortably today.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 11, 2014)

Wow! Swansea 62% possession after 35 minutes.


----------



## Dandred (Jan 11, 2014)

1,500 Swansea fans. 

60,000 United fans. 

Swansea are louder!


----------



## Voley (Jan 11, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25676582

Another great quote that I'll try not to take out of context:

*Man Utd 0-0 Swansea
*
"That was Manchester United at their very best."


----------



## Dandred (Jan 11, 2014)

Playing "Glory glory Man United " LOL


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 11, 2014)




----------



## Fez909 (Jan 11, 2014)

From the Guardian lol


> The atmosphere in Old Trafford is bubbling now. United have been stunning since the restart. Each and every one of their players looks a couple of inches taller, passes are sticking. Swansea are all over the shop, and can hardly get a touch. "I know we have problems at the moment, but am I alone in thinking that the media's coverage has been a little OTT?" asks Daniel Thomas. "Yes, lots of our players seem average, but look at Aaron Ramsey - last season awful, this season awesome. I'm sure that if we keep the core of this team together for a few years they'll be a strong side. Great teams (Barca, Bayern recently) always have time together; not so great ones (Inter, Chelsea) are a bit more cobbled together. Knee-jerk (Savage) opinions are little more than twitter-baiting rubbish, and should be treated as such. Danny Welbeck, Ballon d'Or."



They're only beating Swansea


----------



## Wilf (Jan 12, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> From the Guardian lol
> 
> 
> They're only beating Swansea


I believe you may be referring to the best team in Wales?    This is the English Champions Vs the Welsh Champs. Winners to play either Celtic of Linfield in the final.


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 12, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I believe you may be referring to the best team in Wales?    This is the English Champions Vs the Welsh Champs. Winners to play either Celtic of Linfield in the final.


Swansea wouldn't stand a chance against The New Saints


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 12, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> From the Guardian lol
> 
> 
> They're only beating Swansea



The Guardian/Observer is the biggest cheer leader for Man Utd that you will ever come across. I got my posts moderated  on their comments sections after pointing out that one of their journalists appears on MU TV and another has authored two books on ferguson


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 12, 2014)

Wow! As if they could be so touchy when it comes to football. Although it's not just football, is it? It's business


----------



## agricola (Jan 17, 2014)

Anderson off to Fiorentina, then.  That will leave a big gap in the United midfield.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 17, 2014)

agricola said:


> Anderson off to Fiorentina, then.  That will leave a big gap in the United midfield.


Don't worry...Chelsea are just about to fill that gap with 5 players.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 19, 2014)

United get worse by the week. How low can they go?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 19, 2014)

What will the Glazers do if MU don't get CL next year? That's where they'll show their hand - do they stick with Moyes then or do they shove him out the door.


----------



## andyefc (Jan 19, 2014)

David moyes the gift that keeps giving


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 19, 2014)




----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jan 19, 2014)

Lol at Vidic deciding he's had enough of playing for a bit, 3 week holiday for him.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 19, 2014)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Lol at Vidic deciding he's had enough of playing for a bit, 3 week holiday for him.



Rafael should've gone too but they wouldn't have missed him.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 19, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Rafael should've gone too but they wouldn't have missed him.



Rafael's tackle was worse, a potential leg breaker and needless by the touchline suggesting malice.


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 19, 2014)

No Van P or Rooney today= no fucking hope of getting a result at the Bridge......


----------



## Ponyutd (Jan 19, 2014)

Chants of Moyes out, Moyes out.
The team bus not usually that noisy.


----------



## Wilf (Jan 19, 2014)

Have a feeling that's five losses out of six. Must be close to a record.

Edit: 4/5 - still shit.


----------



## imposs1904 (Jan 19, 2014)

Paul Scholes special from Bebe . . .yes, Bebe


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 19, 2014)




----------



## T & P (Jan 19, 2014)

The Picard facepalm is out. Introducing the Fergie facepalm


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 20, 2014)

T & P said:


> The Picard facepalm is out. Introducing the Fergie facepalm


 
Looks like Mick Hucknall sat next to him, Holding back the Tears.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 20, 2014)

i think it's time for a mod to change champs to chumps in the thread title


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 20, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Looks like Mick Hucknall sat next to him, Holding back the Tears.


red red whine


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 20, 2014)

United will be onto Wonga for a loan to buy some players


----------



## leanderman (Jan 20, 2014)

The only surprise is that United's domination lasted so long.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 20, 2014)

leanderman said:


> The only surprise is that United's domination lasted so long.


The fact is that over the last few years Utd have won two titles and came a whisker from winning another off the back of half a squad. 
Now the Glazers, having had success on the cheap, will have to dig seriously deep to refurbish entire departments simply in order to protect their business model, which is inextricably tied to success on the field.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 21, 2014)

Apparently Chelsea have said Man Utd would need to pay £40m to get Mata.

Pay it. Pay it now.

(Though I'd be genuinely surprised if Chelsea let him go to a rival. Yes, Utd are still a rival )


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2014)




----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 21, 2014)

editor said:


>




Looks like a cross between Kenneth Baker and John Major.


----------



## purves grundy (Jan 21, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Looks like a cross between Kenneth Clarke and John Major.


With a hint of Andrew Mitchell.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 21, 2014)

editor said:


>


 
Madame Tussaud's called. They want their Dr. Crippen back.


----------



## Dandred (Jan 21, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> i think it's time for a mod to change champs to chumps in the thread title





Dandred said:


> Every time I see this thread I think it should be changed to "Chumps Innit!'



Come one mods, please! Pretty please with sugar on top.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 21, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> The fact is that over the last few years Utd have won two titles and came a whisker from winning another off the back of half a squad.
> Now the Glazers, having had success on the cheap, will have to dig seriously deep to refurbish entire departments simply in order to protect their business model, which is inextricably tied to success on the field.



Football clubs are such terrible businesses. An industry where you have to match the investments of competitors for whom money is no object and profit is not a criteria in order to maintain the revenue streams you depend on to compete with them, while simultaneously trying to siphon out a profit.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 21, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Apparently Chelsea have said Man Utd would need to pay £40m to get Mata.
> 
> Pay it. Pay it now.
> 
> (Though I'd be genuinely surprised if Chelsea let him go to a rival. Yes, Utd are still a rival )


 
Potential crowd pleasing signing but given the price is another attacking midfielder really a United priority? United imo need another centre half , a left back and a box to box type midfielder or holding midfielder. But if Rooney plus cash is  the deal then as a Chelsea supporter whilst I would be sad to see Matta go it would be good business.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2014)

The bid is in


> Manchester United have made a club-record bid in the region of £35m for Chelsea midfielder Juan Mata.
> 
> United deny making an official offer, but an initial bid has been tabled through intermediaries acting on behalf of the Premier League champions.


----------



## poului (Jan 22, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> But if Rooney plus cash is  the deal then as a Chelsea supporter whilst I would be sad to see Matta go it would be good business.



It's not good business in the long-term. It's worse than Arsenal giving them RVP IMO.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 22, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> The bid is in



Let's see. One thing is certain Utd will have to pay top dollar. That said he will be a direct replacement for Kagawa who presumably will go back to Dortmund, where his reputation 'as one the world's best playmakers' remains untarnished. So if it all happens it will be interesting to see what they are prepared to pay to get him back? For me_ anything_ over what Utd shelled out would be good business, as I was never convinced.  So if Mata does travel north to the home of the champions for £35 mill plus - strip out the Kagawa fee and you still have a genuine bargain.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 22, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Potential crowd pleasing signing but given the price is another attacking midfielder really a United priority? United imo need another centre half , a left back and a box to box type midfielder or holding midfielder. But if Rooney plus cash is  the deal then as a Chelsea supporter whilst I would be sad to see Matta go it would be good business.



 I take your point, but what Utd really need is whole new midfield _department_.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 22, 2014)

poului said:


> It's not good business in the long-term. It's worse than Arsenal giving them RVP IMO.


Rooney will not be going the other way for the same reason that they didn't sell in the summer.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 22, 2014)

Mata plus United isn't good news for those teams that have still to play United .


----------



## poului (Jan 22, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Mata plus United isn't good news for those teams that have still to play United .



That's a staggeringly short-sighted attitude. Mata is only 25.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 22, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Let's see. One thing is certain Utd will have to pay top dollar. That said he will be a direct replacement for Kagawa who presumably will go back to Dortmund, where his reputation 'as one the world's best playmakers' remains untarnished. So if it all happens it will be interesting to see what they are prepared to pay to get him back? For me_ anything_ over what Utd shelled out would be good business, as I was never convinced.  So if Mata does travel north to the home of the champions for £35 mill plus - strip out the Kagawa fee and you still have a genuine bargain.


I call Scouse maths.


----------



## The39thStep (Jan 22, 2014)

poului said:


> That's a staggeringly short-sighted attitude. Mata is only 25.



Not sure I get your meaning?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

Away goals don't count double in the League Cup?


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jan 22, 2014)

After extra time they do.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> After extra time they do.



So if it stays at 2-2 after extra time United go through? I want a dramatic penalty shoot out


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jan 22, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> So if it stays at 2-2 after extra time United go through? I want a dramatic penalty shoot out


Only 3-3 does that, sorry.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 22, 2014)

So difficult....lose to Sunderland or get destroyed in the final.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

United fan picked up on touchline microphone "Stop wanking and watch the ball man" directed at Smalling.


----------



## poului (Jan 22, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Not sure I get your meaning?



What about next season and beyond? This could seriously bite us in the arse.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 22, 2014)

cough


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

Lol. Just when you think it cannot get any worse.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 22, 2014)




----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 22, 2014)

oh my fucking god


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

Fuck sticks  3-3


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 22, 2014)




----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

Dramatic stuff even before the penalties.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 22, 2014)

worst penalty shoot out ever

and best


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

Pure drama and comedy all rolled into one.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 22, 2014)

1 out of 5 penalties?


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jan 22, 2014)

Moyes just lost his job 

Not now, but he would have been able to say "I got to a cup final", or even "I won a cup" (unlikely!).  At the end of the season they'll be 5th at absolute best, no cups, no finals, no anything.  Gone.


----------



## Big Gunz (Jan 22, 2014)

You're shit you're shit you're shit, why would Mata sign?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 22, 2014)

I thought Utd were going to win that after that late goal.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

Chumps got chumped.


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 22, 2014)

It's the nerves that jangle in penalty taking ,lets face it if you hit the ball hard and straight you should score


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)




----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

Man United are very much in the fight for fourth. I'm enjoying dishing out all the insults but there's no reason that we won't go into the last day with four teams in with a chance for getting that last CL place.

Still, HA you cunts etc.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> View attachment 47059



Carried away there. An LFC type decline as unlikely as an Arsenal Champions League title.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 22, 2014)

useless wankers.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 22, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Man United are very much in the fight for fourth. I'm enjoying dishing out all the insults but there's no reason that we won't go into the last day with four teams in with a chance for getting that last CL place.
> 
> Still, HA you cunts etc.


This. I was hoping they would progress, stretch them a bit wrt the league.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> View attachment 47059


Ha, what in the blazing fuck are doing at that funeral?!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 22, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Carried away there. An LFC type decline as unlikely as an Arsenal Champions League title.



I just saw them as queuing up in no particular order.
I think Arsenal will win the Title and Liverpool will finish third. United will struggle for top six finish and fail.


----------



## nuffsaid (Jan 22, 2014)




----------



## The39thStep (Jan 22, 2014)

should have signed Mata this afternoon so he could take a penalty


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2014)

That looks like an old Ricky Gervais


----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> That looks like an old Ricky Gervais



To be fair though, the statue of Ferguson at Old Trafford looks more like Alan Pardew.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

Favelado said:


> To be fair though, the statue of Ferguson at Old Trafford looks more like Alan Pardew.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2014)




----------



## Gingerman (Jan 22, 2014)

Some of the worst penalties Ive seen from both sides tonight...Welbeck and Jones have just booked their place in England's WC squad after those terrible efforts


----------



## Big Gunz (Jan 22, 2014)

Breaking news United have had their 37m bid for Mata accepted!


----------



## Voley (Jan 22, 2014)

I don't normally stop up for The League Show highlights but I think I might tonight.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

Big Gunz said:


> Breaking news United have had their 37m bid for Mata accepted!



It Juan Mata at all. They'll still be shit.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2014)

Big Gunz said:


> Breaking news United have had their 37m bid for Mata accepted!


Bloody heckins, they have!

Curious decision on Chelsea's part, though I suppose we may find out in the summer. Still, before then, the idea of Mata playing behind Rooney and RVP is rather a good one!


----------



## krink (Jan 22, 2014)

Mata been arrested trying to do uturn on m6


----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

Chelsea get Rooney at the end of the season? Is it possible to have that as part of the deal? Even if they don't announce it now. Something's gone on here.


----------



## LiamO (Jan 22, 2014)

... and Jose gets to look a genius if Mata is responsible for taking points off City, Arsenal... and, more importantly, Liverpool, Everton and Spurs.


----------



## LiamO (Jan 22, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Chelsea get Rooney at the end of the season?



nah.


----------



## imposs1904 (Jan 22, 2014)

Big Gunz said:


> Breaking news United have had their 37m bid for Mata accepted!



I think this confirms that Moyes is a bit of a machiavellian genius on the sly. He knew that Chelsea would never sell their best player for the past two years to a EPL rival, so he engineered this crisis to give off the vibe that Man Utd were also rans and no longer serious rivals. Fast forward to 2015/16 and Man Utd are lifting the title again.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

LiamO said:


> nah.



Why would Chelsea not mention that as they they did the deal? He's their number 1 tansfer target. How does "nah" cover it?


----------



## LiamO (Jan 22, 2014)

I predict Rooney, RVP and Mata to  create havoc... and the big fella with the hair to come good.


----------



## LiamO (Jan 22, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Why would Chelsea not mention that as they they did the deal? He's their number 1 tansfer target. How does "nah" cover it?



Because Utd won't sell Rooney to Chelsea - or any other english club. Would be interesting to see what Jose could coax out of him though.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

LiamO said:


> Because Utd won't sell Rooney to Chelsea - or any other english club. Would be interesting to see what Jose could coax out of him though.



In that case it would be stupid of Chelsea to sell Mata to United instead of abroad. Surely this can't be a straightforward one-way deal. There's got to be something in it for Mourinho.


----------



## nuffsaid (Jan 22, 2014)

Yooz lot need four Mata let alone Juan.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2014)

I think we're already in danger of facing Juan Mata joke too many.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 22, 2014)

Meanwhile, Zaha having a medical at Cardiff ahead of a loan until the end of the season

Apparently still pays to be an ex-Man Utd player managing another team.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 22, 2014)

Favelado said:


> In that case it would be stupid of Chelsea to sell Mata to United instead of abroad. Surely this can't be a straightforward one-way deal. There's got to be something in it for Mourinho.


i think Mata would probably join Brentford rather than manure at the moment..


----------



## Favelado (Jan 22, 2014)

> @alwynpayne What do you get when you cross a ball, with Valencia? A goal kick



hahaha


----------



## Voley (Jan 22, 2014)

Ah, that was an absolute joy to watch.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 23, 2014)

This could last a long time. United last spent 26 years without a league title. Liverpool are 24 years in to that scenario. Chelsea waited 50 years. Arsenal are trophyless in nine years or so.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 23, 2014)

leanderman said:


> This could last a long time. United last spent 26 years without a league title. Liverpool are 24 years in to that scenario. Chelsea waited 50 years. Arsenal are trophyless in nine years or so.



The key question is whether the sponsorship money, TV rights and massive gate revenue will outweigh the consequences if they don't qualify for the CL. Has anyone got an answer to that? Liverpool lost financial clout, Chelsea started winning as soon as they got it, Arsenal weren't spending while they got their stadium sorted. Football has changed. All you need to do is chuck money around and you'll win something. So the key is - will they still rake enough in if they finish 5th?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 23, 2014)

leanderman said:


> This could last a long time. United last spent 26 years without a league title. Liverpool are 24 years in to that scenario. Chelsea waited 50 years. *Arsenal are trophyless in nine years or so.*



It's only been Its been 8 Years, 8 Months and 1 Days since Arsenal last won a trophy.
http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/#sthash.59fhwlLH.dpuf


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 23, 2014)

Favelado said:


> The key question is whether the sponsorship money, TV rights and massive gate revenue will outweigh the consequences if they don't qualify for the CL. Has anyone got an answer to that? Liverpool lost financial clout, Chelsea started winning as soon as they got it, Arsenal weren't spending while they got their stadium sorted. Football has changed. All you need to do is chuck money around and you'll win something. *So the key is - will they still rake enough in if they finish 5th?*



More importantly will they be able to attract the top draw players without Champions League football?


----------



## Favelado (Jan 23, 2014)

News just in LOL. What a coincidence.

*Man Utd pushed out of football rich list top three*

*http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25844751*


----------



## gabi (Jan 23, 2014)

Moyes....

He's now loaning Zaha out. He's never even had a start for United in the Prem. He seems a fucking quality player. Why the fuck is he doing that?? Who hired this dickwallah? If he was playing the Urban fantasy league he'd be bottom of the table, and half of us havent even looked at it for months.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 23, 2014)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 23, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> View attachment 47078


http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...x-ferguson-after-league-cup-exit-9079693.html


----------



## leanderman (Jan 23, 2014)

Favelado said:


> The key question is whether the sponsorship money, TV rights and massive gate revenue will outweigh the consequences if they don't qualify for the CL. Has anyone got an answer to that? Liverpool lost financial clout, Chelsea started winning as soon as they got it, Arsenal weren't spending while they got their stadium sorted. Football has changed. All you need to do is chuck money around and you'll win something. So the key is - will they still rake enough in if they finish 5th?



I doubt it will be a problem for a year or two - there's a lot of BT money etc.

Mata signing looks a good one too


----------



## leanderman (Jan 23, 2014)

Favelado said:


> News just in LOL. What a coincidence.
> 
> *Man Utd pushed out of football rich list top three*
> 
> *http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25844751*



The story suggests though that the situation is temporary.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 23, 2014)

leanderman said:


> The story suggests though that the situation is temporary.



No, it suggests it may be temporary.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 23, 2014)

Favelado said:


> No, it suggests it may be temporary.



Suggests is a 'may'


----------



## Favelado (Jan 23, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Suggests is a 'may'



Is it fuck.


----------



## Voley (Jan 23, 2014)

It's a beautiful world we live in when Man U's performances are so shit that they get reported as a crime.


----------



## Ole (Jan 24, 2014)

The amount of ABUs on here is incredible. Have they all just scurried in this season or what?


----------



## Favelado (Jan 24, 2014)

Ole said:


> The amount of ABUs on here is incredible. Have they all just scurried in this season or what?



Whats an ABU?


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 24, 2014)

Anyone Beats United


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 24, 2014)

Has Welbeck's penalty landed yet?


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 24, 2014)




----------



## Voley (Jan 24, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Whats an ABU?


A normal human being.


----------



## og ogilby (Jan 24, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> Anyone Beats United


I thought it was anyone but United, as in, we don't care who wins as long as it isn't utd.


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 24, 2014)

og ogilby said:


> I thought it was anyone but United, as in, we don't care who wins as long as it isn't utd.


It is. It was a crap 'joke' from me


----------



## Wilf (Jan 24, 2014)

Voley said:


> A normal human being.


 What's the Mata you, hey, shaddup ya face.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 24, 2014)

Ole said:


> The amount of ABUs on here is incredible. Have they all just scurried in this season or what?



It is rather bizarre. With Utd fans appearing to be the interlopers. Also amusing to see how Mata hailed as a pocket genius last week - 'Rooney plus cash' is now deemed ' not worth the money'. In my opinion he is of a type with Silva and Ozil but a shade more direct, and as a consequence with a better scoring record I think, than either. 
Three years younger than Silva too. 

Now if Mourinho will only let him fucking go he will be a fantastic signing. 

And at even 37 times the price, Cantonesque.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 24, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> It is rather bizarre. With Utd fans appearing to be the interlopers. Also amusing to see how Mata hailed as a pocket genius last week - 'Rooney plus cash' is now deemed ' not worth the money'. In my opinion he is of a type with Silva and Ozil but a shade more direct, and as a consequence with a better scoring record I think, than either.
> Three years younger than Silva too.
> 
> Now if Mourinho will only let him fucking go he will be a fantastic signing.
> ...


Have to say I'm non-plussed as to why Mou let him go to you lot. Yes, it's a lot of money, but still. Mata's a top player.


----------



## purves grundy (Jan 24, 2014)

There's space for him in my fantasy team.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 24, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Have to say I'm non-plussed as to why Mou let him go to you lot. Yes, it's a lot of money, but still. Mata's a top player.


 
According to Wenger it's so Man Utd can beat Arsenal and City in their upcoming games.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 24, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> According to Wenger it's so Man Utd can beat Arsenal and City in their upcoming games.


I think it might take a bit more than Mata.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 24, 2014)

This is a huge boost for United, who I now think are favourites for fourth (Liverpool's inury crisis is deep). What Chelsea are doing here I just don't know. Flog him abroad if you want the cash. If it's as short term as Wenger claims it's also a mistake.


----------



## Ole (Jan 24, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> It is rather bizarre. With Utd fans appearing to be the interlopers. Also amusing to see how Mata hailed as a pocket genius last week - 'Rooney plus cash' is now deemed ' not worth the money'. In my opinion he is of a type with Silva and Ozil but a shade more direct, and as a consequence with a better scoring record I think, than either.
> Three years younger than Silva too.
> 
> Now if Mourinho will only let him fucking go he will be a fantastic signing.
> ...



He's nailed on now, Mourinho gave the whole speech in his press conference. The hold-up now is they're waiting to get this fella Salah signed up before they sign off on Mata but it's just a matter of time. Outstanding signing and worth every penny.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 24, 2014)

Favelado said:


> This is a huge boost for United, who I now think are favourites for fourth (Liverpool's inury crisis is deep). What Chelsea are doing here I just don't know. Flog him abroad if you want the cash. If it's as short term as Wenger claims it's also a mistake.



it could be a Cantona moment, but football has moved on quite a long way from there.

The money-hose has changed everything.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 24, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> According to Wenger it's so Man Utd can beat Arsenal and City in their upcoming games.



It's a very strange feeling agreeing with Wenger, but he's right. There's something off about Chavs strengthening the Glazerhawks when they've already played them twice but the other title contenders haven't.


----------



## Voley (Jan 24, 2014)

Wilf said:


> What's the Mata you, hey, shaddup ya face.


----------



## Voley (Jan 24, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Have to say I'm non-plussed as to why Mou let him go to you lot. Yes, it's a lot of money, but still. Mata's a top player.


Same here. He's a fucking great player and I think he stands a good chance of turning Utd's season round. It's got to be an ego thing, probably on Mourinho's side.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 24, 2014)

Voley said:


> Same here. He's a fucking great player and I think he stands a good chance of turning Utd's season round. It's got to be an ego thing, probably on Mourinho's side.


sadly you can't have 11 matas on the field and it's the other 10 players who'll let united down.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 24, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> sadly you can't have 11 matas on the field and it's the other 10 players who'll let united down.



Rooney and RVP and Mata and a couple of the others getting their act together (I think Fellaini is capable of that) and surely they become a decent proposition again. I'm all for being wrong here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 24, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Rooney and RVP and Mata and a couple of the others getting their act together (I think Fellaini is capable of that) and surely they become a decent proposition again. I'm all for being wrong here.


and what of the defence and keeper? of course rvp, mata and rooney have to get their act together before they can try to save united's season.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 24, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> and what of the defence and keeper? of course rvp, mata and rooney have to get their act together before they can try to save united's season.



Fingers crossed they suffer all season then.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 24, 2014)

Favelado said:


> Fingers crossed they suffer all season then.


i like david moyes as utd coach. this season anyway


----------



## Voley (Jan 24, 2014)

I do think Moyes will sort it out there eventually.  I just hope it takes a decade or two, that's all.


----------



## Favelado (Jan 24, 2014)

Voley said:


> I do think Moyes will sort it out there eventually.  I just hope it takes a decade or two, that's all.



Maybe the good thing is that he might sort it out to some extent but it doesn't look like he's got it in him to deliver anything like the number of titles his predecessor did.  A few years of winning every other FA Cup and finishing between 2nd and 4th in the league would be delicious.


----------



## Fez909 (Jan 24, 2014)

It pisses me off when the likes of Wenger and other managers of 'top' clubs moan about perfectly normal stuff. They already have the most money, the best players, the referees on their side and excellent support. But they complain about things like the fixture lists (Moyes) and now the timing of transfers that's got fuck all to do with them? If it's unfair for ManU to sign a player before they've played every 'top' team twice, why would it be fair to all the other clubs below them to have to face a stronger ManU than the so-called top teams had to?

Just get on with it you whinging cunts


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 24, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> It pisses me off when the likes of Wenger and other managers of 'top' clubs moan about perfectly normal stuff. They already have the most money, the best players, the referees on their side and excellent support. But they complain about things like the fixture lists (Moyes) and now the timing of transfers that's got fuck all to do with them? If it's unfair for ManU to sign a player before they've played every 'top' team twice, why would it be fair to all the other clubs below them to have to face a stronger ManU than the so-called top teams had to?
> 
> Just get on with it you whinging cunts



Fills in the gaps between moaning about refs doesn't it.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Jan 24, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Pickman's model said:
> 
> 
> > and what of the defence and keeper? of course rvp, mata and rooney have to get their act together before they can try to save united's season.


Evans isn't good enough despite some believing 'the defence should be built around him'. In reality he's a squad player at best. Always has a mistake in him. Ferdinand is already good as gone. Vidic has had two bad knee injuries but is still only 32 which on its own for a centre half is never  a problem. So hopefully he will recover his best form. At the moment for me the best partner is Smalling. Jones, when match fit is more useful in midfield as things stand. Rafa and Evra are problems areas. The former lacks focus - something that he still hasn't corrected after 5 years so a question mark there - plus Evra may want to move on. Buttner is another Fergie punt that won't make the cut. Fabio too on the way out. De Gea on the other hand though still young is top class. The boo boo the other night is a typical, possibly the consequence of the wear and tear of the defence in front of him.
All in all then it's not just the mid field that needs a make over. Moyes has a good eye in the transfer market which, given the scale of the task, is presumably one of the reasons that led him to be recomended. [/quote]


----------



## Dandred (Feb 1, 2014)

Chumps again!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 1, 2014)




----------



## Voley (Feb 1, 2014)

LOL


----------



## Wilf (Feb 1, 2014)

Right, that's it - you can all fuck off from me thread!  Enough's enough, we've all had a laugh but LEAVE ME IN PEACE!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 1, 2014)

25 years I've been waiting for this. Marvellous.


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 1, 2014)

David Moyes.....breaking records with United since 2013


----------



## purves grundy (Feb 1, 2014)

Fair play to Stoke though, great performance. Good mid-table clash.


----------



## Voley (Feb 1, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Right, that's it - you can all fuck off from me thread!  Enough's enough, we've all had a laugh but LEAVE ME IN PEACE!


I have to admire the way you respond to our pisstaking Wilf. The silence from the other regulars on this thread is pretty deafening.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 1, 2014)

Voley said:


> I have to admire the way you respond to our pisstaking Wilf. The silence from the other regulars on this thread is pretty deafening.



It's enough to drive a man to DRINK.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 1, 2014)

Did you say DRINK?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 1, 2014)

Dandred said:


> Did you say DRINK?



I did indeed. Worth repeating.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 1, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> 25 years I've been waiting for this. Marvellous.


Right, OUT! My parents will be home soon.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 1, 2014)

Voley said:


> I have to admire the way you respond to our pisstaking Wilf. The silence from the other regulars on this thread is pretty deafening.


Must admit, I always thought the Glazers were sent by god to test my faith.  I've had my hair shirt and cilice on since 2005, but now he's taking the piss.


----------



## Yelkcub (Feb 2, 2014)

Moyes must have watched a different game to me. If they'd scraped a point it would have been a travesty.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 2, 2014)

Champions League qualification looks unlikely, if Liverpool win their game in hand the gaps extends to nine points.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 2, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Champions League qualification looks unlikely, if Liverpool win their game in hand the gaps extends to nine points.


Yeah, but there's every chance they'll qualify for next years competition as winners. Yeah?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 4, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, but there's every chance they'll qualify for next years competition as winners. Yeah?



I wouldn't bank on that. Out next round i reckon.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 4, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I wouldn't bank on that. Out next round i reckon.



If Porto can win it - and Liverpool - anything can happen. But I don't rate it likely.


----------



## chilango (Feb 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> If Porto can win it - and Liverpool - anything can happen. But I don't rate it likely.



I'd be astounded if we progressed any further tbh.

in fact, I don't expect many more wins at all this season.


----------



## Ole (Feb 6, 2014)

RIP - The Flowers of Manchester


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 6, 2014)

Everton finished 6th last season.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 7, 2014)

Ole said:


> RIP - The Flowers of Manchester




Still awful, even now. Interestingly, the footage plays at a speed that doesn't make the players look comically slow. 

Also, in those few seconds, it shows  Duncan Edwards really was quite a player. 

England seems to get about one a decade that good.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 7, 2014)

http://www.independent.ie/sport/mic...ly-mocked-on-askcarrick-hashtag-29975167.html


----------



## big eejit (Feb 7, 2014)

Rooney turns to god after Stoke defeat... 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...ster-Uniteds-last-chance-of-resurrection.html


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 7, 2014)

.

wrong thread


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2014)

From today's Observer. 



> Not that there were all that many Arsenal attacks, for this was a lethargic, almost timid, performance by the league leaders, *who must be glad for once that they only face Manchester United *in midweek before Liverpool come round again in the FA Cup then Bayern Munich arrive in the Champions League.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Feb 9, 2014)

Anyone watching this?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 9, 2014)

What's the mata? Man!, you lot are rubbish.


----------



## Glitter (Feb 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Champions League qualification looks unlikely, if Liverpool win their game in hand the gaps extends to nine points.



My husband (a home and away Scouser) reckons we'll win it because it's just the kind of thing that happens to United.

I wish he was right but he's having a fucking laugh. Look how fucking shite we are.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2014)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> Anyone watching this?



Tough game for Man U. Fulham are currently shooting up the league. Second from bottom now.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 9, 2014)

Glitter said:


> My husband (a home and away Scouser) reckons we'll win it because it's just the kind of thing that happens to United.
> 
> I wish he was right but he's having a fucking laugh. Look how fucking shite we are.



A there is rebellion in the ranks. The aging egos look for a scapegoat as they plot their escape.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2014)

Ooooh. Almost two to Fulham. Shame.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2014)

They can't lose this, can they? Home to Fulham? I know they're shit, but they must have a bit of pride left, surely.


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 9, 2014)

Any normal team would sack the manager after this game, but Manu can't, can they? They've just let him break the transfer record and who would take his place??


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Feb 9, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> Any normal team would sack the manager after this game, but Manu can't, can they? They've just let him break the transfer record and who would take his place??



Someone who knows the club.  Rene Meulenstein


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Feb 9, 2014)

Oh shit, i'm sat here watching this and taking the piss - I just remembered that Manchester U-fucking-nited are the last team in my so far successful accumulator for the weekend


----------



## Glitter (Feb 9, 2014)

I feel this is my fault. I've only been to two games this season and we won both.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2014)

Man U have scraped into the lead. It's their FA Cup Final.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 9, 2014)

Much as i would have loved to see United lose their victory was a victory for football. Fulham offered nothing for ninety minutes and they can carry it back to west London with them at least it won't weigh them down.


----------



## mack (Feb 9, 2014)

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2014)

Fulham have equalized. Ha ha ha!!!!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 9, 2014)

I ought to wait for the final whistle


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 9, 2014)

Wow, that stunned silence is the funniest thing i have heard this weekend.


----------



## Glitter (Feb 9, 2014)

Cunts


----------



## spartacus mills (Feb 9, 2014)

I'm sure ManUre will be glad to have got a point today...


----------



## peterkro (Feb 9, 2014)

Jesus christ! Back to the fucking seventies.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 9, 2014)

In Fergie time, too. Brilliant.


----------



## poului (Feb 9, 2014)

Think it's time to like David Moyes on Facebook.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 9, 2014)

#MoyesOut is trending on Twitter.


----------



## Voley (Feb 9, 2014)

Nice one Fulham.


----------



## mack (Feb 9, 2014)

Another 2 tough games coming up.


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 9, 2014)




----------



## Glitter (Feb 9, 2014)

They're all tough when you're shite


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 9, 2014)

16/1 for Moyes to be next manager to leave club. 
Pretty good odds, them.


----------



## poului (Feb 9, 2014)




----------



## Fez909 (Feb 9, 2014)

poului said:


>


----------



## Dandred (Feb 9, 2014)

"Today as bad as it gets" - Moyes

I'm sure things can get a whole lot worse.


----------



## tommers (Feb 9, 2014)

Haha, them celebrating like they'd won the league after going ahead against fulham and then the final minute equaliser.  Brilliant.  Been a long time coming.  Work will be funny tomorrow, listening to the glory boys trying to deal with the fact that the shiny success story they thought they'd bought into is looking a little bit grubby these days.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 9, 2014)

Dandred said:


> "Today as bad as it gets" - Moyes
> 
> I'm sure things can get a whole lot worse.



Tbh it might be an achievement if they make the Europa league .


----------



## sunnysidedown (Feb 10, 2014)




----------



## Fez909 (Feb 10, 2014)

Is the Intertoto Cup still going?


----------



## Dandred (Feb 10, 2014)

Trolling United forums at the moment is so easy. Just start a support Moyes thread.


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 10, 2014)

sunnysidedown said:


>


Is Charlie Drake still alive ?


----------



## Gingerman (Feb 10, 2014)

Fergie went through a few years in the early 2000s without a title win,when Arsenal and Chelsea won it,but fuck me at least they were fairly competive during those seasons,what's going on now reminds me of the United teams of the '80s,hard to know how long they'll stick with Moyes,no CL next season no job maybe......


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 10, 2014)

the way things are pls keep moyes


----------



## chieftain (Feb 10, 2014)

sunnysidedown said:


>


 
Mick Hucknall, holding back the years not!


----------



## mack (Feb 10, 2014)

Moyes "We just go into the next game and take the teams on and challenge them. We've got a good team and there will be very few teams desperate to play Manchester United," he said.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 10, 2014)




----------



## Fez909 (Feb 10, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Fergie went through a few years in the early 2000s without a title win,when Arsenal and Chelsea won it,but fuck me at least they were fairly competive during those seasons,what's going on now reminds me of the United teams of the '80s,hard to know how long they'll stick with Moyes,no CL next season no job maybe......



Fairly competitive? Aye, they finished in the top three in each of those seasons!


----------



## Wilf (Feb 10, 2014)

Wonder what the scenario now is in terms of Moyes longevity at the club? A few people were saying 'he's got till after the transfer window' - even though I think this was pure speculation, the club seems remarkably un-leaky at the moment (presumably a function of the Glazers being such closed off fuckwits).  Well, here we are edging towards a point where even a very good run wouldn't get them into the CL. 

In any rational world, at almost any othe club he would have gone by now, not just because of the results but also the godawful performances. We all know the 2 factors that are keepin him in place - the cost of paying him off and the time they gave fergie before it all came good (along with, _probably_, ferguson's patronage).  But there's got to be an end game. Is it that things have got so  bad it's not worth sacking him till the end of the season (no incoming manager is likely win just about every game which is what they would need).  But surely he couldn't go on _beyond_ the end of th season, could he?  The idea of Moyes overseeing the 'rebuilding' is beyond belief.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 10, 2014)

I think he'll be there until Fergie admits he made a mistake. Which he never does.


----------



## mack (Feb 10, 2014)

TruXta said:


> I think he'll be there until Fergie admits he made a mistake. Which he never does.



Yay! the Moyes dynasty starts here.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 10, 2014)

If Newcastle weren't so shit, a defeat against Arsenal would edge Utd towards slipping out of even Europa League qualification.  Seems a long time since we were (kind of) outplaying Real and going out on a dodgy sending off.


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Feb 10, 2014)

7th is only good for the Europa if (a) Man City win the league cup (likely), and (b) one of the top 6 win the FA cup.  After the next round there will only be 2 or 3 left, so that's far from a given.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 10, 2014)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> 7th is only good for the Europa if (a) Man City win the league cup (likely), and (b) one of the top 6 win the FA cup.  After the next round there will only be 2 or 3 left, so that's far from a given.


 So, Moyes career hangs on Sunderland beating city or united overhauling everton.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 10, 2014)

Wilf said:


> So, Moyes career hangs on Sunderland beating city or united overhauling everton.


Don't see Utd pipping Everton tbh. They lost badly against Liverpool but were unlucky not to get anything from the Spurs game. They've been playing very well all season.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 10, 2014)

Best to finish outside the UEFA cup places surely?


----------



## TruXta (Feb 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Best to finish outside the UEFA cup places surely?


From the EPL website:



> There are three places in the UEFA Europa League available: the FA Cup winners will enter at the Group Stage; the fifth place team in the Barclays Premier League will enter at the Play-Off stage; and the Football League Cup winners will enter at the Q3 stage.
> 
> In the event the FA Cup winners are qualified for the UEFA Champions League the FA Cup runners-up will qualify, but in the place reserved for the lowest ranking Barclays Premier League representative. The place with direct access to the Group Stage will be given to the club that finishes in the highest position in the Barclays Premier League of the clubs qualifying for the UEFA Europa League.
> 
> ...


----------



## Wilf (Feb 10, 2014)

One for our older viewers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watney_Cup

United sit in just about the right position to enter this at the moment (in terms of goals scored and league position):



> It was held before the start of the season, and was contested by the teams that had scored the most goals in each of the four divisions of the Football League the previous season who had not been promoted or admitted to one of the European competitions, although Manchester United did not compete in the 1972 event despite apparently having been eligible based on goals scored


 
It's not mentioned in the wiki, but I think this was the competition where they abandoned the offside rule for anyone who had gone into the box (or a line across the pitch level with the box).  Fuck, that would blow rafael's mind!


----------



## leanderman (Feb 10, 2014)

TruXta said:


> From the EPL website:



So, what position makes United safe from the Europa League. 8th?

Pretty sure Moyes is capable of that.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> So, what position makes United safe from the Europa League. 8th?
> 
> Pretty sure Moyes is capable of that.


None, in principle.


----------



## D'wards (Feb 10, 2014)

I reckon that Man Utd are into their huge slump and won't win the prem title again for at least 10 years. Happens to all the big clubs eh? Look at Liverpool in the 80's, Arsenal in the late 90's early 2000's. Triumphant and f-all for over 10/20 years.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 10, 2014)

D'wards said:


> I reckon that Man Utd are into their huge slump and won't win the prem title again for at least 10 years. Happens to all the big clubs eh? Look at Liverpool in the 80's, Arsenal in the late 90's early 2000's. Triumphant and f-all for over 10/20 years.



Exactly. The only surprise is that United managed to stay on top for so long.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 11, 2014)

I wouldn't write them off as quickly as that tbh. The tipping point will be if they don't make champions league qualification by 2016. There is plenty of cushion in improving their market share in China , the Far East and the USA  for revenue. They will spend in the close season.


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 11, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> I wouldn't write them off as quickly as that tbh. The tipping point will be if they don't make champions league qualification by 2016. There is plenty of cushion in improving their market share in China , the Far East and the USA  for revenue. They will spend in the close season.


But who will come without European football? Without that draw they'll struggle to attract the best and it's then can't win without the players, can't get the players because we can't/don't win. The united name, you would think, should carry some weight on its own...but without Europe, will it?


----------



## leanderman (Feb 11, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> But who will come without European football? Without that draw they'll struggle to attract the best and it's then can't win without the players, can't get the players because we can't/don't win. The united name, you would think, should carry some weight on its own...but without Europe, will it?



That's where you have to pay them (even) more.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 12, 2014)




----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 16, 2014)

Felt the need to bump this thread as it was sinking without trace.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 16, 2014)

I have (false) hopes of champions league glory.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 17, 2014)

Anyone feel that Rooney has earnt this £300k a week new offer?


----------



## leanderman (Feb 17, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Anyone feel that Rooney has earnt this £300k a week new offer?



Whole pay thing grotesque. 

United have so much work to do in rebuilding that they can't afford to lose anyone they want to keep


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 18, 2014)

There is only one team in Manchester.
http://www.theguardian.com/football...manchester-city-bigger-club-manchester-united


----------



## leanderman (Feb 18, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> There is only one team in Manchester.
> http://www.theguardian.com/football...manchester-city-bigger-club-manchester-united



Pretty sure Arsenal fans have bemoaned Chelsea's mega bucks and lack of footballing class.

Same thing happening here


----------



## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Pretty sure Arsenal fans have bemoaned Chelsea's mega bucks and lack of footballing class.
> 
> Same thing happening here


Man U haven't spent mega-bucks over the last 10-20 years?  It's what winning teams do, just look at Liverpool in the 80s. This is just jealousy from has-beens.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 18, 2014)

Buying a title is not the same as winning it.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Buying a title is not the same as winning it.


Since the 80s winning a title is pretty much tantamount to buying it. I could do a correlation if I could be bothered, pretty sure it'll be strong. And by buying I'm not just talking about transfers, but wages as well.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Man U haven't spent mega-bucks over the last 10-20 years?  It's what winning teams do, just look at Liverpool in the 80s. This is just jealousy from has-beens.



Not jealous at all. Good luck to City. 

United's success was built on an element of home-grown talent from the youth team - combined with some heavy spending.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Since the 80s winning a title is pretty much tantamount to buying it. I could do a correlation if I could be bothered, pretty sure it'll be strong. And by buying I'm not just talking about transfers, but wages as well.


While not quite disagreeing with the main point, I think there's a general feeling that "buying" the title comes from an owner coming in and splurging their cash hose all over the place, while Utd's earnings came from their success. I suppose it's about the direction of the causal link - people are happier when money follows success, rather than success following money.

Of course, now Ferguson has gone but the Glaziers are still there, things could go very wrong on both sides for Utd


----------



## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Seems I was a bit off - more here http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/12/soccernomics-was-wrong-why-transfer-expenditures-matter/

Takeaway point: Wages matter a lot more than total transfer spending in terms of predicting final league day position.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 18, 2014)

Always been lots of cash in football. But it's rarely been as abundant - and basically as unlimited - as City's.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Always been lots of cash in football. But it's rarely been as abundant - and basically as unlimited - as City's.


Without some comparative data I'm hesitant to agree - speaking in terms of relative spending compared to other teams in the league. Seems to me Chelsea did something similar in the immediate post-Abramovich era. But as I said I don't have the numbers and can't really be bothered finding out right now.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Seems I was a bit off - more here http://tomkinstimes.com/2010/12/soccernomics-was-wrong-why-transfer-expenditures-matter/
> 
> Takeaway point: Wages matter a lot more than total transfer spending in terms of predicting final league day position.



I was about to make that point: teams can bid what they like but post-Bosman, and in the age of player power, stars follow the money.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I was about to make that point: teams can bid what they like but post-Bosman, and in the age of player power, stars follow the money.


I'd call it agent-power, but I take your point.


----------



## leanderman (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Without some comparative data I'm hesitant to agree - speaking in terms of relative spending compared to other teams in the league. Seems to me Chelsea did something similar in the immediate post-Abramovich era. But as I said I don't have the numbers and can't really be bothered finding out right now.



I am not saying it's unprecedented. But City have more even cash than Abramovich - and can spend more if necessary.

(Edited after infant-induced a garble)


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 18, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Buying a title is not the same as winning it.



Arsenal won't be doing either


----------



## leanderman (Feb 19, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I am not saying it's unprecedented. But City have more even cash than Abramovich - and can spend more if necessary.
> 
> (Edited after infant-induced garble)


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 25, 2014)

I've had to bump this thread so others can find it without a search.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 25, 2014)

They always say it's bad luck when things go wrong for United. 1-0.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 25, 2014)

Brilliant second from a player on loan from Arsenal. Good night United.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 25, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> They always say it's bad luck when things go wrong for United. 1-0.


it's not bad luck when things go wrong for united, it's because they're not very good.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 25, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I've had to bump this thread so others can find it without a search.


yeh it's become mid-table like the team


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 25, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh it's become mid-table like the team



It had been relegated to the second page.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 25, 2014)

Reading redcafe all I can see is "sack Moyes" and I'm thinking _please don't sack him_ *please*.


----------



## Maggot (Feb 25, 2014)

Why couldn't Utd have played this badly against Palace?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 25, 2014)

Maggot said:


> Why couldn't Utd have played this badly against Palace?


they save their best for the big occasions


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 25, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Always been lots of cash in football. But it's rarely been as abundant - and basically as unlimited - as City's.


let's see how unlimited it is in a season or two if they're able to keep up this standard of football


----------



## poului (Feb 25, 2014)

I'm beyond gloating right now and am left simply baffled. They're just SO bad!


----------



## TruXta (Feb 25, 2014)

A new low


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 25, 2014)

It's only half-time. 

But still.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 25, 2014)

I hope they scrape through and get utterly humiliated in the QFs.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 25, 2014)

> Wayne Rooney believes the real Manchester United are about to stand up and be counted as David Moyes's side take on Olympiakos at the Karaiskakis Stadium. The striker is determined to win the European Cup for a second time, insisting his lone winners' medal is "not enough".


----------



## mack (Feb 25, 2014)

At least his hair weave looked nice.


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 25, 2014)

Oh dear. Here's every completed pass from ManU. Note how few are in the Olympiakos third.







Only three crosses were successful






One shot on target, and it was the 89th minute.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 25, 2014)

Bit harsh on Moyes


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 25, 2014)

Can this fella change tactics during a game?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 25, 2014)

Moyes has been hung out to dry by the aging egos. I wouldn't matter if he was a tactical genius; they won't play for him.


----------



## gabi (Feb 26, 2014)

No, he's a terrible manager. Simple as that. I honestly think I could do a better job. It's not the greatest squad but it's not the worst in the world either. Certainly better than the Greeks.

He's just fucking useless and won't even acknowledge it, preferring to blame referees.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 26, 2014)

I still think he should be given time.


----------



## gabi (Feb 26, 2014)

The United forums have overwhelmingly given up on him. I assume that's been reflected in the Stretford end.

He's totally, unbelievably useless. Sending Zaha out on loan without even playing him once in the PL and not even playing Janusajc against the greeks. what the fuck is going on there.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Feb 26, 2014)

Dandred said:


> I still think he should be given time.



I agree. Another 25 years. Please.


----------



## The39thStep (Feb 26, 2014)

gabi said:


> No, he's a terrible manager. Simple as that. I honestly think I could do a better job. It's not the greatest squad but it's not the worst in the world either. Certainly better than the Greeks.
> 
> He's just fucking useless and won't even acknowledge it, preferring to blame referees.



I feel really sorry for Mata


----------



## sleaterkinney (Feb 26, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Can this fella change tactics during a game?


I've seen him get more defensive, but never more attacking.


----------



## DownwardDog (Feb 26, 2014)

Are the players deliberately playing shit to get rid of him? It certainly looked like it at times.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 26, 2014)

Moyes off in 48 hours tops. Mutual agreement, not a sacking.


----------



## mack (Feb 26, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Moyes off in 48 hours tops. Mutual agreement, not a sacking.



Please please please do not let this be true - there are still plenty more new "lows" for Moyes to reach yet!


----------



## paulhackett (Feb 26, 2014)

mack said:


> Please please please do not let this be true - there are still plenty more new "lows" for Moyes to reach yet!



 Including being replaced on a "till the end of the season" basis by Avram Grant


----------



## LiamO (Feb 26, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Moyes off in 48 hours tops. Mutual agreement, not a sacking.



absolute bollocks


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Feb 26, 2014)

that performance last night was absolutely shocking though. ferdinand was as bad as i've seen him (and that's saying something), smalling has never really impressed and looked shaky, carrick and cleverly as a central midfield unit doesn't excite, they had young and valencia stick in a few ineffective crosses (as usual), rvp was complaining about other players hogging his space up front, but what stood out for me was rooney.

rooney was fucking hopeless, a proper liability. not only did he wander anywhere and everywhere as if he's some tactical genius who can win games single-handed (and see rvp's comments above), but he gave sloppy passes to team-mates, he wandered back and was caught offside, he committed some silly fouls, he whinged at the ref (what's new?) but he doesn't seem to have the capacity to affect a game in the way that he clearly thinks he has the ability to. football teams need some shape and cohesion and he actively undermines that for united at the moment. one can't help feeling that he's been told by moyes to "go out there and boss it how you want to wayne" which is causing more problems than its ever going to solve.

and to think they're going to lose vidic who was the only player who came out with any credit whatsoever  he's seen the writing on the wall.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 26, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Moyes off in 48 hours tops. Mutual agreement, not a sacking.


 To offer me hope in this fashion is very, _very_ cruel.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 26, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Moyes off in 48 hours tops. Mutual agreement, not a sacking.


 http://www.theguardian.com/football...yes-position-manchester-united-manager-secure


----------



## TruXta (Feb 26, 2014)




----------



## LiamO (Feb 26, 2014)

gabi said:


> The United forums have overwhelmingly given up on him. I assume that's been reflected in the Stretford end.
> 
> He's totally, unbelievably useless. Sending Zaha out on loan without even playing him once in the PL and not even playing Janusajc against the greeks. what the fuck is going on there.



1. Zaha. That would have been a club decision - not just Moyes. maybe he has disappeared up his own arse. Wouldn't be the first young fella to do so at a big club.

2. Januzaj.  Utd have a long record of pulling young players out of the firing line periodically. They should be applauded for it.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 26, 2014)

Can the mods please change the thread title?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 26, 2014)

Dandred said:


> Can the mods please change the thread title?


 No, no let it stand testament to my folly - a threadtitle cilice.


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 26, 2014)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> that performance last night was absolutely shocking though. ferdinand was as bad as i've seen him (and that's saying something), smalling has never really impressed and looked shaky, carrick and cleverly as a central midfield unit doesn't excite, they had young and valencia stick in a few ineffective crosses (as usual), rvp was complaining about other players hogging his space up front, but what stood out for me was rooney.
> 
> rooney was fucking hopeless, a proper liability. not only did he wander anywhere and everywhere as if he's some tactical genius who can win games single-handed (and see rvp's comments above), but he gave sloppy passes to team-mates, he wandered back and was caught offside, he committed some silly fouls, he whinged at the ref (what's new?) but he doesn't seem to have the capacity to affect a game in the way that he clearly thinks he has the ability to. football teams need some shape and cohesion and he actively undermines that for united at the moment. one can't help feeling that he's been told by moyes to "go out there and boss it how you want to wayne" which is causing more problems than its ever going to solve.
> 
> and to think they're going to lose vidic who was the only player who came out with any credit whatsoever  he's seen the writing on the wall.


Have a read of some proper statistical analysis of Rooney, rather than subjective opinion. It may surprise you (it did me).

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/01/statsbomb-mythbusting-five-years-of-wayne-rooney/


----------



## chilango (Feb 26, 2014)

I want him gone before the 2nd Leg. 

Won't happen, I know but "the announcement" is still the first thing I look for in the news every morning .


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Feb 26, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> Have a read of some proper statistical analysis of Rooney, rather than subjective opinion. It may surprise you (it did me).
> 
> http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/01/statsbomb-mythbusting-five-years-of-wayne-rooney/


that may as well be, but i watched him in this match, and i didn't think he contributed an awful lot to what was an awful team performance.


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 26, 2014)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> that may as well be, but i watched him in this match, and i didn't think he contributed an awful lot to what was an awful team performance.


Sure, I wasn't trying to claim you were wrong about the match, but you seemed to be making a more general point about Rooney's performances which don't seem to match the stats.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Feb 26, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> Sure, I wasn't trying to claim you were wrong about the match, but you seemed to be making a more general point about Rooney's performances which don't seem to match the stats.


yes, i suppose there was a more general point that when ferguson was in charge, he may have tried to marshal him more to ensure his maximum effect, something which perhaps moyes is struggling given that he's probably one of the only united players left who has future potential and appears to be being indulged in a way which fergie wouldn't have allowed (hence their bust-ups perhaps???).


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 26, 2014)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> yes, i suppose there was a more general point that when ferguson was in charge, he may have tried to marshal him more to ensure his maximum effect, something which perhaps moyes is struggling given that he's probably one of the only united players left who has future potential and appears to be being indulged in a way which fergie wouldn't have allowed (hence their bust-ups perhaps???).


Did you read the article? Rooney is having his best ever season for United (based on the stats they used in the article).

Whether that's to the detriment of the rest of the team is another matter (no pun intended)


----------



## Dandred (Feb 27, 2014)

On that assumption United should keep Moyes just because he brings out the best Rooney!


----------



## Fez909 (Feb 27, 2014)

Rvp saying he might want off at the end of the season. He's unlikely to be allowed, but it's not a good image for attracting new players, is it?


----------



## gabi (Feb 27, 2014)

He's 'received the backing of the board'. As such I expect him to last another week, two at most.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 28, 2014)

Moyes is the gift that just keeps on giving!


----------



## gabi (Feb 28, 2014)

There's possibly a larger argument to be had here. English football is in the doldrums. Even Jose could only manage a draw in turkey.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 28, 2014)

I actually meant the trolling and meltdown going on at the redshite cafe!


----------



## Dandred (Feb 28, 2014)

gabi said:


> There's possibly a larger argument to be had here. English football is in the doldrums. Even Jose could only manage a draw in turkey.



When hasn't English football been in the doldrums? 1966?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 28, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Moyes off in 48 hours tops. Mutual agreement, not a sacking.


 Your deadline has just expired.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 28, 2014)

He needs to be kept until at least the summer!



From 2.40 gold!


----------



## thriller (Feb 28, 2014)

this is so depressing as a united fan. Poor Shinji


----------



## N_igma (Mar 1, 2014)

.





Dandred said:


> When hasn't English football been in the doldrums? 1966?



English clubs dominated Europe from 1977 until Heysel. That kinda fucked it up for a long while.

The national team has pretty much always been dire


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 1, 2014)




----------



## Dandred (Mar 1, 2014)

*Man Utd manager David Moyes 'would have been sacked' in Italy*
Manchester United manager David Moyes would have been *"sacked three times"* if he was managing in Serie A, says former Chelsea boss Gianluca Vialli.


http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26383205


----------



## ska invita (Mar 1, 2014)

Dandred said:


> *Man Utd manager David Moyes 'would have been sacked' in Italy*
> Manchester United manager David Moyes would have been *"sacked three times"* if he was managing in Serie A, says former Chelsea boss Gianluca Vialli.
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26383205


yeah Italians and their short-termism. I'm Proud that never happens here in Britain.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 1, 2014)

Four more years!


----------



## Dandred (Mar 2, 2014)




----------



## Dandred (Mar 7, 2014)

Run de lapz!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 7, 2014)

Dandred said:


> Four more years!


Five more, isn't it?


----------



## Dandred (Mar 8, 2014)

So, any predictions for today's again against the mighty West Brom?


----------



## tommers (Mar 8, 2014)

Dandred said:


> So, any predictions for today's again against the mighty West Brom?



Lots of home counties glory boys moaning about why "we"  were robbed in my office on Monday morning.


----------



## chilango (Mar 8, 2014)

Imo he's put out our strongest team today. So absolutely no excuses for a poor performance.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 8, 2014)

Moyes is obviously a winner!


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 8, 2014)

Europa league is a real possibility with results like this and the likelihood of an Arsenal/ city final


----------



## leanderman (Mar 8, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Europa league is a real possibility with results like this and the likelihood of an Arsenal/ city final



This is what worries me.

Can you waive a place in the Europa league? Because I would.


----------



## chilango (Mar 8, 2014)

Nah.

I wanna win it.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> This is what worries me.
> 
> Can you waive a place in the Europa league? Because I would.



Well we ,Chelsea won it and made top four the same year which is what United should try and emulate next season.realistically that is now the bench mark for United .


----------



## aylee (Mar 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Can you waive a place in the Europa league? Because I would.


 
Comments like this epitomise why Man Utd fans are so loathed by virtually the entirety of the footballing world.  The sheer arrogance and sense of entitlement coming from those two sentences I find simply sickening.


----------



## leanderman (Mar 10, 2014)

aylee said:


> Comments like this epitomise why Man Utd fans are so loathed by virtually the entirety of the footballing world.  The sheer arrogance and sense of entitlement coming from those two sentences I find simply sickening.



Calm down


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 10, 2014)

aylee said:


> Comments like this epitomise why Man Utd fans are so loathed by virtually the entirety of the footballing world.  The sheer arrogance and sense of entitlement coming from those two sentences I find simply sickening.


I don't think it's just Man Utd fans that think like that, to be fair.

There's the other option too, as demonstrated by Newcastle, of blatantly aiming to finish low enough to avoid entry into the Europa league.


----------



## aylee (Mar 10, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> I don't think it's just Man Utd fans that think like that, to be fair.


 
I know, and the other replies above show that not all of them have the same sense of entitlement to entry to the Champions' League every year.  Chelsea and, increasingly, Citeh fans have it as well.  But the bleating and lack of patience of so many Red Mancs is very tiresome to observe.


----------



## leanderman (Mar 10, 2014)

aylee said:


> I know, and the other replies above show that not all of them have the same sense of entitlement to entry to the Champions' League every year.  Chelsea and, increasingly, Citeh fans have it as well.  But the bleating and lack of patience of so many Red Mancs is very tiresome to observe.



Not bleating at all. Quite enjoying it. Winning a corner now is cause for celebration


----------



## Gingerman (Mar 16, 2014)

@ Fergie's face


----------



## Dandred (Mar 16, 2014)

LOL


----------



## Glitter (Mar 16, 2014)

Well that was fucking shit!

Losing is one thing but at least look fucking arsed. 

Been the same all season. No fight, no effort, no fucking clue.


----------



## Voley (Mar 16, 2014)




----------



## Voley (Mar 16, 2014)




----------



## Gingerman (Mar 16, 2014)




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## Dr. Furface (Mar 16, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> @ Fergie's face


That was really sad. No, really. It was the face of an old man watching his life's work - a labour of love - being destroyed in front of his eyes. And what's worse, by his chosen successor. I fear he may not be long for this world if he has to endure much more of it!


----------



## agricola (Mar 16, 2014)

Dr. Furface said:


> That was really sad. No, really. It was the face of an old man watching his life's work - a labour of love - being destroyed in front of his eyes. And what's worse, by his chosen successor. I fear he may not be long for this world if he has to endure much more of it!



I have probably said this on the thread already, but half of me thinks that the way this season has gone is exactly why he picked Moyes to succeed him.  Had the board gone out and got Guardiola, Mourinho or someone of that ilk they would probably be top of the league and still in the Champions League by now - and Ferguson would find himself getting Paisleyed.  Instead he gets to see his reputation as a manager increase every week.


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## The39thStep (Mar 16, 2014)

If it was true that united  turned down Mourinho in favour of 'The Chosen One'  then that must be one of the biggest errors of judgement that has ever been made.


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## marty21 (Mar 16, 2014)

It  is his first season , cheesus, Manure fans  are impatient


----------



## Dr. Furface (Mar 16, 2014)

marty21 said:


> It  is his first season , cheesus, Manure fans  are impatient


The way things are going it might be his only season!


----------



## mack (Mar 16, 2014)

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Utd have absolutely no desire to be traipsing across Europe next season so are pretty much putting in zero effort to ensure they don't qualify.

Rather like last season for us we didn't play like a team desperate for Euro action the upside being it gives Moyes a chance to work with the players and get a set style of play that they can all stick to and understand.

They'll be back next year. With Moyes in charge. /fingers crossed/please God


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 16, 2014)

Dr. Furface said:


> The way things are going it might be his only season!








*"The way things are going, they're gonna crucify me"*


----------



## gabi (Mar 17, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> If it was true that united  turned down Mourinho in favour of 'The Chosen One'  then that must be one of the biggest errors of judgement that has ever been made.



It's not quite up there with Neville Chamberlain appeasing Hitler, but yes. It seems to have been a bizarre decision. Jose did everything he could to be available at the right time and instead the second richest club in the world goes to Everton to get the successor. Insane.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 17, 2014)

Reading red cafe is very entertaining right now!


----------



## Glitter (Mar 17, 2014)

Dandred said:


> Reading red cafe is very entertaining right now!



Redcafe is a site full of gobshites win lose or draw.


----------



## gabi (Mar 17, 2014)

What I can't figure out is why the fuck he seems to be playing a wide game. its not fucking rocket science. look at our forwards for gods sake.

i dont think he can stay once the greeks knock us out. i seriously think you could pluck anyone out of the stretford end and they could do at least as well, and probably a fuck of a lot better. no doubt he'll be given one more chance in the summer window though. we'll have more players of the quality of fellaini arriving for 30m.


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 17, 2014)

It feels even better today than it did yesterday  I thought it might have worn off a bit by now and I've not even spoken to my manure friends yet


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## The39thStep (Mar 17, 2014)

Realistically who would be on a short list to replace him?  van Gaal is the only one I can think of with credentials although Blanc might be a consideration. Perhaps Klopp? Simeone has had two good seasons but the Premiereship is a different kettle of fish. Mourinho, Ancelotti and Guardiola are out if reach.

Griggs might be attractive to fans but IMO he would only ever be a temp measure.


----------



## aylee (Mar 17, 2014)




----------



## friedaweed (Mar 18, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Realistically who would be on a short list to replace him?  van Gaal is the only one I can think of with credentials although Blanc might be a consideration. Perhaps Klopp? Simeone has had two good seasons but the Premiereship is a different kettle of fish. Mourinho, Ancelotti and Guardiola are out if reach.
> 
> Griggs might be attractive to fans but IMO he would only ever be a temp measure.


Keano


----------



## Dr. Furface (Mar 18, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Realistically who would be on a short list to replace him?  van Gaal is the only one I can think of with credentials although Blanc might be a consideration. Perhaps Klopp? Simeone has had two good seasons but the Premiereship is a different kettle of fish. Mourinho, Ancelotti and Guardiola are out if reach.


Klopp is looking a good bet - he's managed at an appropriate level and Dortmund have played a style of football under him that would be welcome at United. He also speaks English at least as well as David Moyes and I'm sure that after Moyes his personality and approach would be like a breath of fresh air to players and fans alike.

However if Utd want to stick to their 'dour Scot' tradition then they could do worse than go for Alex McLeish. I am of course being facetious but if you think about it, McLeish had far better claims to the Utd job than Moyes, because he had actually won major trophies (in Scotland and England), had managed a big club in the Champions League, and had managed a club under intense pressure from hostile fans (Villa). Moyes cannot boast any of those achievements, which is why Utd's decision to appoint him in the first place was utterly baffling.


----------



## gabi (Mar 18, 2014)

Dr. Furface said:


> He also speaks English at least as well as David Moyes


----------



## gabi (Mar 18, 2014)

please lose tonight united... That will be it. The glazers will surely have had enough.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 18, 2014)

gabi said:


> please lose tonight united... That will be it. The glazers will surely have had enough.


it will be quite difficult for united to lose tonight, given that they''re playing tomorrow.


----------



## T & P (Mar 18, 2014)

so far this season United lose every day of the week.


----------



## gabi (Mar 18, 2014)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> it will be quite difficult for united to lose tonight, given that they''re playing tomorrow.



Good call


----------



## Joe Reilly (Mar 18, 2014)

gabi said:


> please lose tonight united... That will be it. The glazers will surely have had enough.



If the crowd turns at the game on Wednesday then he'll be out.


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 18, 2014)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> it will be quite difficult for united to lose tonight, given that they''re playing tomorrow.


On current form, they could manage it.


----------



## chilango (Mar 18, 2014)

I wonder if his contract has come kind of exit clause along the lines of failure to qualify for the CL means forfeiting compensation upon sacking. If so, would that be triggered tomorrow or not until it's mathematically impossible to finish fourth?

Regardless, I want him gone ASAP.

Some players should be worrying too.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 18, 2014)

I will be backing united to win and progress to the next round.perfectly possible , the opposition aren't good and united can't be as bad as they were in the first leg .


----------



## chilango (Mar 18, 2014)

Not a chance in hell we're going through.

We might scrape a win, but not a good enough one.


----------



## agricola (Mar 18, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> I will be backing united to win and progress to the next round.perfectly possible , the opposition aren't good and united can't be as bad as they were in the first leg .


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2014)

chilango said:


> I wonder if his contract has come kind of exit clause along the lines of failure to qualify for the CL means forfeiting compensation upon sacking. If so, would that be triggered tomorrow or not until it's mathematically impossible to finish fourth?
> 
> Regardless, I want him gone ASAP.
> 
> Some players should be worrying too.


there must be some targets in there, but he'd have been an idiot to accept any for his first year in charge. Altho from the way he is managing, being an idiot seems quite likely.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 18, 2014)

chilango said:


> I wonder if his contract has come kind of exit clause along the lines of failure to qualify for the CL means forfeiting compensation upon sacking. If so, would that be triggered tomorrow or not until it's mathematically impossible to finish fourth?
> 
> Regardless, I want him gone ASAP.
> 
> Some players should be worrying too.


You'd _think_ this would be the point (that he'd go).  However, even in the realm of distant and disinterested owners, the Glazers are one step further down the road.  It's hard to imagine they have even the slightest emotional catch as each result comes in - or even that they get scores updates throughout the games.  Yes, being out of the CL for this season and next should be the point, but it's hard to tell how they precisely map results onto their own balance sheet. It's also hard to tell how interventionist they are and how much autonomy they've given the club to sort it (might even be they are simply waiting for a call from Ferguson to pull the switch).

To make an obvious point, too many clubs get rid of managers too soon. Fair play to any owners who get a plan and stick with their man, are willing to put up with the stick - even risk missing CL qualification.  There just isn't the slightest sense Moyes has a plan, is motivating the team, bringing young players on - anything.  Giving him 'more team' is a logical absurdity given that the passage of time makes him fuck up even more.  Is this really still hanging on a fear of upsetting ferguson if his man gets sacked?   If that's even part of the truth it would be an astonishing way for a large corporation to behave.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 19, 2014)

For the first time in my life I will be hoping for a United win. Moyes is just too special so be sacked so soon, his work must continue.


----------



## gabi (Mar 19, 2014)

Wilf said:


> It's also hard to tell how interventionist they are and how much autonomy they've given the club to sort it (might even be they are simply waiting for a call from Ferguson to pull the switch).



I hear they are quite interventionist. They sacked a superbowl winning manager when he only managed to finish mid-table the following season. Moyes has never won anything, let alone a fucking Superbowl.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 19, 2014)

I used to be lectured by united supporters that Chelsea should follow their example about not chopping and changing managers.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 19, 2014)

Moyes' at Everton last year: 29 games, 48 points, scored 46, conceded 35.
Moyes at MUFC: 29 games, 48 points, scored 46, conceded 34

Progress!!


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 19, 2014)




----------



## Dandred (Mar 19, 2014)

Any one want to predicts tonight's result?

There don't seem to be many United supporters about, fickle fair-weather fans. 

The Liverpool thread seems to have lots or replies success or not. 


In the Moyesire we trust! 3-1 to United! Winners but not actually winning!


----------



## Wilf (Mar 19, 2014)

Dandred said:


> Any one want to predicts tonight's result?


 
As a United fan, here's my prediction:


----------



## goldenecitrone (Mar 19, 2014)

friedaweed said:


> View attachment 50466


----------



## mack (Mar 19, 2014)

Hope they actually win - be good to see them up against Madrid, Barca, Bayern.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 19, 2014)

mack said:


> Hope they actually win - be good to see them up against Madrid, Barca, Bayern.


 If barca started the tika-taka against our defence I think they might, literally, bust into tears.


----------



## Supine (Mar 19, 2014)

Anyone know why this game is on sky one tonight?

I didn't think sky ever did this. Free football


----------



## Balbi (Mar 19, 2014)

They've been doing it pretty regularly recently.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 19, 2014)

Evra's eye!  Holy fuck!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 19, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Evra's eye!  Holy fuck!


What happened?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 19, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> What happened?


Clash of heads, Evra's eye very quickly swelled up so that he now looks like an extra from a Rocky montage. Seriously, I'm surprised he can see out of it.

e2a: when I say his eye, of course I mean the area _around_ his eye


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 19, 2014)

And it's not Evra, it's Valencia


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 19, 2014)

>


----------



## Dr. Furface (Mar 19, 2014)

There's a 40 year old bloke out there running the show with more skill and imagination than the rest of his teammates put together


----------



## chilango (Mar 19, 2014)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 19, 2014)

'keepers union: great work from de Gea. Think if the header and shot had been anywhere else he might have had more of a problem, but he did what he had to


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 19, 2014)

Sky have just trailed Man Utd v Man City as the "Race for the Title"!

With the greatest of respect to our thread hosts: _eh_?!?!

Do Sky do irony?


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 19, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Clash of heads, Evra's eye very quickly swelled up so that he now looks like an extra from a Rocky montage. Seriously, I'm surprised he can see out of it.
> 
> e2a: when I say his eye, of course I mean the area _around_ his eye


----------



## Dr. Furface (Mar 19, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Sky have just trailed Man Utd v Man City as the "Race for the Title"!
> 
> With the greatest of respect to our thread hosts: _eh_?!?!
> 
> Do Sky do irony?


It's the race for the title for City obvs


----------



## Epico (Mar 19, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Sky have just trailed Man Utd v Man City as the "Race for the Title"!
> 
> With the greatest of respect to our thread hosts: _eh_?!?!
> 
> Do Sky do irony?



Ah, its a race for title alright - just only involves one team from this fixture...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 19, 2014)

Dr. Furface said:


> It's the race for the title for City obvs





Epico said:


> Ah, its a race for title alright - just only involves one team from this fixture...


Aye, it would appear that's just how they're marketing their next run of coverage, but it is rather unfortunate to say the least


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 19, 2014)

That keepers bent as a nine bob tonight I'd have this match investigated for match fixing on the evidence so far


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 19, 2014)

Of course, as it stands Olympiakos could _still _just score one goal and go through.


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 19, 2014)

From the beeb


> 20:56
> Roy Carroll would have saved that free-kick.
> 
> At the other end, Alejandro Dominguez's free-kick deflects wide with David de Gea wrong-footed...



Andy Carroll would have saved it with his pony tail


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 19, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Of course, as it stands Olympiakos could _still _just score one goal and go through.


Yes you're right. There is hope yet


----------



## strung out (Mar 19, 2014)

United to win the CL, Liverpool to finish 4th in the PL and not qualify for next season's CL. You heard it here first.


----------



## chilango (Mar 19, 2014)




----------



## TruXta (Mar 19, 2014)

strung out said:


> United to win the CL, Liverpool to finish 4th in the PL and not qualify for next season's CL. You heard it here first.


Willing to put a tenner on it?


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 19, 2014)

strung out said:


> United to win the CL, Liverpool to finish 4th in the PL and not qualify for next season's CL. You heard it here first.





> Marouane Fellaini playing up front. BBC.co.uk





> United to win the CL


Computer says NO


----------



## Glitter (Mar 19, 2014)

IT'S ON!!!


----------



## strung out (Mar 19, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Willing to put a tenner on it?


Course I'm fucking not.


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 19, 2014)

Glitter said:


> IT'S ON!!!


No it's finished. You won 3-0. You'll be out next round, like Clubba Lang, "aint gonna be no rematch" not with that eye

At least Moyes is safe for another Rocky season


----------



## peterkro (Mar 19, 2014)

In spite of supporting United for more than fifty years,why oh why do they have to do things the hard way? Personal guess we'll get battered in the next round.Fuck it I wish all the time ago I choose Nottingham Forest or some such,my fucking heart can't take much more of this.


----------



## strung out (Mar 19, 2014)

peterkro said:


> In spite of supporting United for more than fifty years,why oh why do they have to do things the hard way? Personal guess we'll get battered in the next round.Fuck it I wish all the time ago I choose Nottingham Forest or some such,my fucking heart can't take much more of this.


It must have been a real drag supporting United for the last 25 years


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Mar 19, 2014)

Fellaini has found his position #*cornerflag*


----------



## peterkro (Mar 19, 2014)

strung out said:


> It must have been a real drag supporting United for the last 25 years


Fuck it I went throughout the seventies when we were really shite.
(even through the period when we were on top we fucked up against average teams and beat great teams only by the skin of our teeth)


----------



## Glitter (Mar 19, 2014)

friedaweed said:


> No it's finished. You won 3-0. You'll be out next round, like Clubba Lang, "aint gonna be no rematch" not with that eye
> 
> At least Moyes is safe for another Rocky season



I wasn't being entirely serious


----------



## Gingerman (Mar 19, 2014)

QFs should be good.... Zlatan, Ronaldo, Messi, Ribery, Costa, and er.... Wellbeck!


----------



## Wilf (Mar 19, 2014)

IT BEGINS!


----------



## gabi (Mar 20, 2014)

As a united fan, what a shit result to wake up to. This has better not mean gollum survives into the summer window.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 20, 2014)

Fantastic result! 

This and a win against West Ham should ensure that the Moyesire stays over the summer to spunk loads of cash on players like Marouane Fellaini.


----------



## gabi (Mar 20, 2014)

who in their right mind would entrust a 150m quid transfer budget or whatever it is, to david fucking moyes. the glazers arent stupid. surely the reason they flew in was to sack the idiot.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 20, 2014)

gabi said:


> who in their right mind would entrust a 150m quid transfer budget or whatever it is, to david fucking moyes. the glazers arent stupid. surely the reason they flew in was to sack the idiot.


They already gave him over 70 million, like I said before, his work is long from being done!


----------



## leanderman (Mar 20, 2014)

peterkro said:


> Fuck it I went throughout the seventies when we were really shite.
> (even through the period when we were on top we fucked up against average teams and beat great teams only by the skin of our teeth)



Eighties weren't a bed of roses. Two FA Cup wins instead of one.


----------



## big eejit (Mar 20, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Eighties weren't a bed of roses. Two FA Cup wins instead of one.



Football history shows that clubs' fortunes rise and fall. Clubs have always tried to buy a guaranteed place at the top, and have always failed in the longer term. That won't change. I hope.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Mar 20, 2014)

peterkro said:


> In spite of supporting United for more than fifty years,why oh why do they have to do things the hard way?


And why oh why does every fan of every club say the same bloody thing?


----------



## Mungy (Mar 20, 2014)

moyes is a good manager. you have to think, who could or would step into the job after sir purplenose? he'll get it working given time.


----------



## marty21 (Mar 20, 2014)

strung out said:


> Course I'm fucking not.


 I put a fiver on at 16/1 -

COME ON YOU REDS!


----------



## Wilf (Mar 20, 2014)

Mungy said:


> moyes is a good manager. you have to think, who could or would step into the job after sir purplenose? he'll get it working given time.


 I'd say Moyes disasters have made it easier for a new manager to come in. Following fergie, the only way was down - following moyes, the only way is up.


----------



## Mungy (Mar 20, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I'd say Moyes disasters have made it easier for a new manager to come in. Following fergie, the only way was down - following moyes, the only way is up.


if they go the way of changing manager every time they don't win stuff the championship will be where man u will end up


----------



## Lo Siento. (Mar 20, 2014)

Mungy said:


> if they go the way of changing manager every time they don't win stuff the championship will be where man u will end up


Budget they're working on? Naaaaah


----------



## Wilf (Mar 20, 2014)

Mungy said:


> if they go the way of changing manager every time they don't win stuff the championship will be where man u will end up


 I think there's a happy medium. It baffles me when clubs boot someone out after no more than 20 games, say. It should be about looking for progress, that the manager has a plan and style ofplay, can communicate, has what it takes to play the transfer market. The point with Moyes is that none of this is happening and there's absolutely no sign it will happen.  Long term planning and solutions are the best way to go, but Moyes isn't a solution.  Feel sorry for him, despite the millions he's making, he's managed the whole situations with a degree of haunted decorum.  But it just ain't working.


----------



## gabi (Mar 20, 2014)

Decorum? He's stormed out of virtually every press conference he's given and blamed most of his losses on referees. He's an idiot.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

gabi said:


> As a united fan, what a shit result to wake up to. This has better not mean gollum survives into the summer window.


Eh? Your team won a brilliant victory, keeping them in the one competition they can compete for this season. Weird to want your team to lose just because you want to change the manager.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Mar 20, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I think there's a happy medium. It baffles me when clubs boot someone out after no more than 20 games, say. It should be about looking for progress, that the manager has a plan and style ofplay, can communicate, has what it takes to play the transfer market. The point with Moyes is that none of this is happening and there's absolutely no sign it will happen.  Long term planning and solutions are the best way to go, but Moyes isn't a solution.  Feel sorry for him, despite the millions he's making, he's managed the whole situations with a degree of haunted decorum.  But it just ain't working.



This long-term planning thing is a bit of a myth tbh. Regular changes of coach are the norm at lots of successful football clubs...


----------



## leanderman (Mar 20, 2014)

big eejit said:


> Football history shows that clubs' fortunes rise and fall. Clubs have always tried to buy a guaranteed place at the top, and have always failed in the longer term. That won't change. I hope.



Quite. As I keep saying, the only surprise is the good times lasted so long.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 20, 2014)

gabi said:


> Decorum? He's stormed out of virtually every press conference he's given and blamed most of his losses on referees. He's an idiot.


 Nah, his dominant look is depressive seal. Can't disagree on idiot though.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

Who else is there that blames their losses on refs? Hmmm. There must be _someone_.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Mar 20, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Quite. As I keep saying, the only surprise is the good times lasted so long.


Well, within certain margins. When you're talking about the top dozen clubs in European football, then the downturns are very occasional and usually brief - because of the resources involved.


----------



## Mungy (Mar 20, 2014)

moyes is not used to having the budget he has. he currently hasn't got the kind of players he would like. given time, he could be a successful man u manager - i think it will be decades before another man u manager will be able to be compared on equal terms with sir purplenose. Moyes did incredibly well at everton with the limited resources available to him. 

Hopefully, for moyes (cos i do like the man) he will have a long successful career at united. he might have to settle for what arsenal have done every season and guarantee champions league football every season for a while whilst he assembles his team.


----------



## LiamO (Mar 20, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Eh? Your team won a brilliant victory, keeping them in the one competition they can compete for this season. *Weird to want your team to lose just because you want to change the manager*.



tbf Gabi is just weird full stop.


----------



## LiamO (Mar 20, 2014)

Kenny Cunningham made some good points on RTÉ last night.

Basically a lack of injuries to key players and RVP's goals won them the title last year- along with Jonny Evans emergence as a consistent centre back. This year their consistent failure to invest at a similar level to other top teams has come back to haunt them.

Rio and Evra are another year older and another year slower this season too. United still have some top young players but three of the back four that played in Greece won't be at the club next season. They have been great but their day has gone. 

None of that can be blamed on Moyes. I think Moyes will be given time to replace them and get a couple of central midfielders.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 21, 2014)

LiamO said:


> Kenny Cunningham made some good points on RTÉ last night.
> 
> Basically a lack of injuries to key players and RVP's goals won them the title last year- along with Jonny Evans emergence as a consistent centre back. This year their consistent failure to invest at a similar level to other top teams has come back to haunt them.
> 
> ...


To some extent, but that balance sheet forgets to highlight that one of those young players, Janusaz, has been playing regularly and also the arrival of Mata.  And it still shouldn't add up to a drop from 1st to 7th.  I think you'd struggle to say Moyes has a clear vision, that has been applied to the existing team and just awaits the arrival of a couple more that are 'his'.  There's none of that in evidence.


----------



## gabi (Mar 21, 2014)

LiamO said:


> tbf Gabi is just weird full stop.









This I cannot deny. No idea who you are sunshine, but thanks for noticing  Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to staple my balls to a window.


----------



## Glitter (Mar 21, 2014)

LiamO said:


> Kenny Cunningham made some good points on RTÉ last night.
> 
> Basically a lack of injuries to key players and RVP's goals won them the title last year- along with Jonny Evans emergence as a consistent centre back. This year their consistent failure to invest at a similar level to other top teams has come back to haunt them.
> 
> ...



Most of those 'insights' have been apparent to us for years. We haven't had a midfield for a long time.


----------



## T & P (Mar 21, 2014)

Heh. United got Bayern in the CL. That's that, then


----------



## goldenecitrone (Mar 21, 2014)

T & P said:


> Heh. United got Bayern in the CL. That's that, then



Don't think they're going to party like it's 1999. Should be an entertaining game though.


----------



## Epico (Mar 21, 2014)

Anyone want to do a sweepstake on how many times the 1999 final is mentioned during the ITV coverage?

I'm going for a conservative estimate of a million.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 21, 2014)

Going to have to watch this game! 

How the bin dippers do against West Ham will be telling!


----------



## chilango (Mar 21, 2014)

tbh it doesn't matter really does it?

we'd lose to any of 'em at the moment.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Mar 21, 2014)

I'm pretty envious, to be honest. I'd love to be watching Liverpool v Bayern in a Champion's League quarter final in a couple of weeks' time.


----------



## chilango (Mar 21, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> I'm pretty envious, to be honest. I'd love to be watching Liverpool v Bayern in a Champion's League quarter final in a couple of weeks' time.



Yeah. It might be our last for a while. Enjoy it while we can I guess.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 21, 2014)

chilango said:


> Yeah. It might be our last for a while. Enjoy it while we can I guess.


 Yes, from 'those big European Nights' to 'those big Carling Cup Nights' - to [leaves space for comedy option] nights.


----------



## Apathy (Mar 21, 2014)

RVP has a sprained knee, could be out for rest of season


----------



## LiamO (Mar 21, 2014)

Glitter said:


> Most of those 'insights' have been apparent to us for years. We haven't had a midfield for a long time.



So you accept Moyes had no influence/responsibilty for this? That is exactly the point I was making.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 22, 2014)

You guys won today and not a single post was made. 

Great supporters.


----------



## Gingerman (Mar 22, 2014)

Potential goal of the season.....


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 22, 2014)

Dandred said:


> You guys won today and not a single post was made.
> 
> Great supporters.


Everyone was on the Arsenal thread.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2014)

Dandred said:


> You guys won today and not a single post was made.
> 
> Great supporters.


Fuck off, it took me ages to get across London and back to Surrey.


----------



## Vin Hogweed (Mar 23, 2014)

Rooney goal aside, maybe no one was posting because beating a poor West Ham team was not really much to post about. 


Dandred said:


> You guys won today and not a single post was made.
> 
> Great supporters.




Rooney goal aside, maybe no one was posting because beating a West Ham team who didn't turn up was not really much to get excited and post about.


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 23, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Potential goal of the season.....




Pfft wasn't even the best goal scored yesterday.


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 23, 2014)

Top-drawer goal by Rooney, yup.  I turned off MotD after the Chelsea highlights and didn't see it till this morning.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 23, 2014)

Hope that the local derby ends up in a draw


----------



## Joe Reilly (Mar 23, 2014)

Here's an odd little stat. Utd have amassed more points away than anyone else.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 25, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Hope that the local derby ends up in a draw



United win will suit us best.


----------



## agricola (Mar 25, 2014)

Scholes didnt really mince his words, did he?


----------



## xes (Mar 25, 2014)

good start 



(  )


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, good start...


----------



## Yelkcub (Mar 25, 2014)

Wellbeck should go for that


----------



## xes (Mar 25, 2014)

Yelkcub said:


> Wellbeck should go for that


that was a fucking heavy one, thought Zaboletas leg was all floppy for a minute, but he's back up.


----------



## agricola (Mar 25, 2014)

United should be down to nine men.


----------



## xes (Mar 25, 2014)

yep ,fellatio should have walked for the elbow.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 25, 2014)

It's now 70/1 Man Utd, 12/1 the draw and 1/25 Man City?


----------



## T & P (Mar 25, 2014)

According to chatter on Red Cafe, stewards had to guard the 'The Chosen One' banner after the game


----------



## Gingerman (Mar 25, 2014)

T & P said:


> According to chatter on Red Cafe, stewards had to guard the 'The Chosen One' banner after the game


WTF ????? They still have that fucking thing up ??????


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 26, 2014)

That was the most lacklustre united performance I have ever seen in a recent derby. Even when United got best 6-1 they played better. They had no midfield to compete with city ,no real game plan and no tempo.aside from the first ten minutes city really didn't get into first gear ,soaked up uniteds powder puff pressure and dominated the the game.

I feel sorry for Mata.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 26, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> I feel sorry for Mata.


 Not exactly going to strengthen his world cup claim is it.


----------



## gabi (Mar 26, 2014)

Didn't see it. Is moyes still playing mata as a winger?


----------



## Gingerman (Mar 26, 2014)

Lucky boy......


----------



## mack (Mar 26, 2014)

gabi said:


> Didn't see it. Is moyes still playing mata as a winger?



Think he was lef/right and center - it doesn't really matter where you play him or anyone else - the entire squad has lost confidence in themselves.


----------



## The Octagon (Mar 26, 2014)

Rooney seemed like the only one up for the game, he was all over the pitch.

Did Rafael get a cross past the first man in the entire game?


----------



## twistedAM (Mar 26, 2014)

News just in...Naming rights for Old Trafford have been confirmed. It's now called the 03 Arena.


----------



## xes (Mar 26, 2014)

I googled that cos I wanted it to be true, you bastard!


----------



## Supine (Mar 26, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> News just in...Naming rights for Old Trafford have been confirmed. It's now called the 03 Arena.



The place will be up for sale soon. Watch out for the estate agents sign going up.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 26, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Lucky boy......


Don't know if he got booked for that. Even as Utd fan I hope he didn't, so he can get a 'ref didn't see it' ban.


----------



## mack (Mar 26, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Don't know if he got booked for that. Even as Utd fan I hope he didn't, so he can get a 'ref didn't see it' ban.



He got a yellow.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 26, 2014)

mack said:


> He got a yellow.


 Ta (didn't see the game).


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 26, 2014)

Just 8 more points needed to guarantee a top half finish.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2014)

who the fuck are man utd?


----------



## twistedAM (Mar 27, 2014)

Supine said:


> The place will be up for sale soon. Watch out for the estate agents sign going up.



Probably before the NFL draft; the antics at United must be damaging the reputation of the parent club in Tampa.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 28, 2014)

Ferdinand too embarrassed to leave the house (I'm searching through my collection of violins as we speark):
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/28/rio-ferdinand-manchester-united-season-embarrassing
Still, it adds to the pressure to bring this charade to an end.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Mar 28, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> News just in...Naming rights for Old Trafford have been confirmed. It's now called the 03 Arena.


 
Would be perfect.


----------



## Glitter (Mar 28, 2014)

LiamO said:


> So you accept Moyes had no influence/responsibilty for this? That is exactly the point I was making.



Sorry, only just seen this. No I don't accept that Moyes has no influence or responsibility for the team. To suggest the manager doesn't have responsibility  for and influence on the team is ludicrous - otherwise why would things have plummeted so dramatically once Ferguson left?

Things were never going to be as good as they were under Ferguson because whatever it is that he did kept us winning or competing for titles when really we had no business being there. A league title winning side which has made some improvement (and by improvement I mean Mata not fucking Fellani) should not be coming out with their heads down, no passion or fight and having _one fucking shot on goal, at home_ against their fiercest rivals. 

I didn't see the City game as I was stranded somewhere without Sky but from what I can gather we weren't much better against our bitterest rivals. What he has done to that team is dropped their heads and their confidence and shown no signs of improvement whatsoever. 

There's other factors, sure. I'm not blaming the situation entirely on Moyes but to suggest he has no responsibility at all is nonsense.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 28, 2014)




----------



## Wilf (Mar 28, 2014)

Not exactly a surprise that the gob _missed_ Zaboleta.


----------



## Fez909 (Mar 28, 2014)

Disgusting behaviour. Was that immediately after the elbow?


----------



## Dandred (Mar 28, 2014)

yep


----------



## mack (Mar 28, 2014)

Got to be at least a six game ban for that.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 28, 2014)




----------



## LiamO (Mar 28, 2014)

mack said:


> Got to be at least a six game ban for that.



for what? Spitting on a football pitch? Dream on.


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 28, 2014)

LiamO said:


> for what? Spitting on a football pitch? Dream on.


No for being the dirty little prick he's always been. He's a nasty cunt and a talentless one at that


----------



## goldenecitrone (Mar 28, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


>



Double 



> *David Moyes faces TWO banners being flown over Old Trafford when Manchester United play Aston Villa*



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...nchester-united-play-aston-villa-9222235.html


----------



## Dandred (Mar 29, 2014)

This season is the most entertaining ever.

Moyes is a fucking legend!


----------



## gabi (Mar 29, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Double
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...nchester-united-play-aston-villa-9222235.html



Surely a landmark like old trafford has a no fly zone over it?

Either way. Pathetic.


----------



## Voley (Mar 29, 2014)

Moyes further endears himself to the Utd fans.

"If Sir Alex was here it would be difficult for him as well," said Moyes.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 29, 2014)

When's the plane coming?


----------



## Glitter (Mar 29, 2014)

The plane is a cunt's trick. 

I'm going to miss the first five minutes. How many will we be down by when I get there? 

Mind you, it's Villa so I predict the standard 3-2


----------



## Dandred (Mar 29, 2014)

Plane is overhead! I can hear it!


----------



## tommers (Mar 29, 2014)

Fucking idiots.


----------



## Supine (Mar 29, 2014)

What an embarrassment that was. You should be ashamed of your so called fans.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 29, 2014)

Great win for keeping Moyes in his job! 

Bring on Bayern!


----------



## Joe Reilly (Mar 29, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> I feel sorry for Mata.



Yeah, and let's not forget he (or more accurately his absence) may have cost Chelsea the title as well.


----------



## Glitter (Mar 29, 2014)

Supine said:


> What an embarrassment that was. You should be ashamed of your so called fans.



I'm ashamed of the ones involved for sure. Don't go tarring us all thank you very much.


----------



## Supine (Mar 29, 2014)

I just meant the ones involved. Doubt their popular down the pub tonight.


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 29, 2014)

lol





*+*




*=*






5  Everton  30 16 57
6  Tottenham   31 0 56
7  Man Utd  32 14 54


----------



## Wilf (Mar 30, 2014)

Well done plane people! Even when 90% of fans think he should go, you manage to shore up support for him.


----------



## LiamO (Mar 31, 2014)

friedaweed said:


> No for being the dirty little prick he's always been. He's a nasty cunt and a talentless one at that



And to think ye have the cheek to call _Everton_ 'The Bitters'.


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 31, 2014)

LiamO said:


> And to think ye have the cheek to call _Everton_ 'The Bitters'.


You stick with him


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 31, 2014)

Believe or not I am going to bet that United get a draw with Bayern Tuesday ( I will double it up with Chelsea doing the same away at PSG)


----------



## LiamO (Mar 31, 2014)

friedaweed said:


> You stick with him



I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Man U supporter.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 31, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Believe or not I am going to bet that United get a draw with Bayern Tuesday ( I will double it up with Chelsea doing the same away at PSG)


Before the second leg I intend to post the following:*
_"The English Champions take the finest away record in the Premier League with them as they battle aginst the Holders of the Trophy"_


* Even if it is no longer true by then.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 1, 2014)

Looking forward to the Nike naming rights to replace Old Trafford then? 

The Manchester 'Air Arena' 
The Manchester 'Swoosh Stadium'


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 1, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Looking forward to the Nike naming rights to replace Old Trafford then?
> 
> The Manchester 'Air Arena'
> The Manchester 'Swoosh Stadium'


the moyes memorial stadium


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 1, 2014)

Valencia and Welbeck are proving intermittently threatening, but seems like anything that goes through Fellani almost immediately breaks down.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 1, 2014)

Oh, Danny boy


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 1, 2014)

Bayern need Robben to dive a little bit more.....


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 1, 2014)

Oh yeah, bollocks to the high foot too. I'm a delicate little flower when it comes to football, but I hate that law - it's too inconsistent and often seems to depend more on the other player lowering their head than the foot being particularly high. Case in point tonight - if the Bayern player hadn't stooped his head no way would that have been called high.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 1, 2014)

Kagawa on, but stuck out on the left  To be fair though, Utd seem to have been having a bit of progress down the wings, so maybe Moyes wants to keep the width.

Heh, and there's Kagawa in the middle


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 1, 2014)

Blimey.....


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 1, 2014)

1-1 Pig Farmer scores for the Germans


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 1, 2014)

To state the blindingly fucking obvious, Utd could really have done with Bayern not getting an away goal...

I used to have a bit of time for him, but Fellani has been useless this evening. Take him off, put Kagawa in the middle and bring on... someone who isn't Fellani.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 1, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Take him off, put Kagawa in the middle and bring on... someone who isn't Fellani.


 Yep, I feel sorry for him, but Moyes should be able to see fellani's nowhere near good enough. 

Actually, no, get Valencia off - or he'll be sent off.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 1, 2014)

Ashley Young! For all his faults, him on the wing and, almost more importantly, Kagawa in the middle, would be much more useful than Fellani in the middle.

I'll concede that might leave you a little vulnerable in midfield without the ball though. I'm sure someone would lend Keane a shirt


----------



## peterkro (Apr 1, 2014)

No shame in that,I thought we'd get battered a draw with the best team in Europe,I'll take that.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 1, 2014)

1-1 FT,decent result for United, Schweinsteige and Martinez will miss the 2nd leg for BM......


----------



## Wilf (Apr 1, 2014)

Goodish, would have settled for that type result. Fellani just has to go though.


----------



## leftistangel (Apr 1, 2014)

Remarkable result considering United played the match with ten men.


----------



## mack (Apr 1, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Goodish, would have settled for that type result. Fellani just has to go though.



He just seems lazy or slow..and shit obv.. would not trust him to do the job over there.


----------



## LiamO (Apr 1, 2014)

Kagawa was excellent defensively as well as going forward. Gave Butner the cover Giggs couldn't first half when Rafinha made hay down that flank.

Fellaini is just having a crisis of confidence. It was painful to watch at times. That free from Rooney. Even I could see what he was going to do - and was excitedly telling the boy exactly where he was going to put the ball for Fellaini - but Fellaini couldn't. I'm assuming Rooney gave him a wee sign but he obviously missed it.

Keep the faith Wilf. He will come good.


----------



## Humberto (Apr 1, 2014)

Don't know why they are letting Vidic go.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 1, 2014)

Humberto said:


> Don't know why they are letting Vidic go.


Me neither,he's been a top five centre back for eight years.The guy is committed don't see why Evra is being sold either,his commitment  has never been in doubt.


----------



## LiamO (Apr 1, 2014)

perhaps they are saving up their pennies to buy some younger players - and keep yer fuckin hands off Virgil Van Dyck!


----------



## Wilf (Apr 1, 2014)

LiamO said:


> Kagawa was excellent defensively as well as going forward. Gave Butner the cover Giggs couldn't first half when Rafinha made hay down that flank.
> 
> Fellaini is just having a crisis of confidence. It was painful to watch at times. That free from Rooney. Even I could see what he was going to do - and was excitedly telling the boy exactly where he was going to put the ball for Fellaini - but Fellaini couldn't. I'm assuming Rooney gave him a wee sign but he obviously missed it.
> 
> Keep the faith Wilf. He will come good.


The mirror player ratings have him joint 5th best player on the pitch (from both sides). 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-1-1-bayern-munich-3338335


----------



## Wilf (Apr 1, 2014)

itv a bit more realistic
http://www.itv.com/sport/football/a...-ratings-manchester-united-1-1-bayern-munich/


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2014)

Considering utd were 5-1 to win at home the draw was a valiant result . However it's game over in the second leg especially as bayern have the away goal.


----------



## LiamO (Apr 2, 2014)

peterkro said:


> Me neither,he's been a top five centre back for eight years.The guy is committed don't see why Evra is being sold either,his commitment  has never been in doubt.



He says after this performance. Whereas if you were judging Utd's defence after the performance in Greece...


----------



## LiamO (Apr 2, 2014)

Wilf said:


> The mirror player ratings have him joint 5th best player on the pitch (from both sides).
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-1-1-bayern-munich-3338335



Well he kept at it right to the end, didn't he? He even got a massive (somewhat ironic) cheer from the crowd for one headed clearance. I reckon all he needs is a goal.

Him and wee Shinji to be the heroes in Munich?


----------



## Voley (Apr 2, 2014)

I think the last couple of games have been the first time I've seen Utd play with some shape this season. A better result than most expected last night.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 2, 2014)

On one hand fair play to Man Utd for managing to hold Bayern Munich given the respective form of the two clubs.

On the other hand I am a bit surprised at how happy their fans are with the result. Before the game started it was 0-0 and now they are still level but with an away goal disadvantage. They now have to beat them, get a 2-2 draw or 1-1 with a penalty shoot out in Germany to get through to the semi final. Not saying that an upset will not happen but Bayern Munich had 74% possession and a lot more shots on goal away from home.


----------



## mack (Apr 2, 2014)

1-1 and penalty shoot out


----------



## Badgers (Apr 2, 2014)

mack said:


> 1-1 and penalty shoot out


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2014)

Badgers said:


> On one hand fair play to Man Utd for managing to hold Bayern Munich given the respective form of the two clubs.
> 
> On the other hand I am a bit surprised at how happy their fans are with the result. Before the game started it was 0-0 and now they are still level but with an away goal disadvantage. They now have to beat them or at very least get a 2-2 draw in Germany to get through to the semi final. Not saying that an upset will not happen but Bayern Munich had 74% possession and a lot more shots on goal away from home.


I thought it was pretty sterile domination from Bayern tbh. The point with teams like Barca & Bayern is to keep your shape, let them pass it in front of you and hit them on the break.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 2, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> I thought it was pretty sterile domination from Bayern tbh. The point with teams like Barca & Bayern is to keep your shape, let them pass it in front of you and hit them on the break.



So feeling confident?


----------



## Badgers (Apr 2, 2014)

Pretty good odds though.... 

Man Utd 11/1 
Draw 5/1 
Bayern 1/4

Stupid bookies  take them to the cleaners!


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2014)

Badgers said:


> So feeling confident?


Not a United fan, just thought last night went as well as could be expected really. Can the worse team win what is essentially a one off cup tie away from home, where any draw other than 0-0 will get them at least to Extra Time? Yes. Is the best team playing at home the most likely winner? Also, yes.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 2, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> Not a United fan, just thought last night went as well as could be expected really.



I agree. 



Badgers said:


> On one hand fair play to Man Utd for managing to hold Bayern Munich given the respective form of the two clubs.



That is why I said this ^ 

By comparison to their embarrassing home defeats to lesser teams than Bayern Munich it was a good result. I was just surprised how happy the fans were with the result. If that is a good result at home then they must have something very special planned to win away.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2014)

Badgers said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I expect what they've got planned is more of the same. Make both legs tight and competitive, and hope that it's your lot that nicks the odd goal or wins on penalties.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 2, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> I thought it was pretty sterile domination from Bayern tbh. The point with teams like Barca & Bayern is to keep your shape, let them pass it in front of you and hit them on the break.



I agree. Possession stats and pass completion might look jaw-dropping on paper but in reality it was all accomplished by effectively playing 6 in midfield (with Muller the nominal no 9) and with that safety in numbers in place, allowing for a high line and the full backs to push up.

It follows that there is always a surfeit of options for the player in possession,and while there is a constantly menace there is little or no penetration.
Akin to a boxer amassing a points total without ever hurting opponent. It really relies on the opposition either losing shape or concentration to  be fully effective.  Eventually many teams do of course succumb. Failing that the egregious intervention of officialdom. Note the faux outrage and indignation over a fairly ordinary challenge by Valencia on Hamn ( a feature of Barcelona's play too incidentally).

Though rarely mentioned it it intrinsic in this game plan that if a foul is to be committed it must come _early_ in opposition counter moves (the pig-stickers lunge on Rooney barely outside the Utd area, a case in point) to stymie the type of breakthrough that should have seen Utd take an early lead through Welbeck. And avoid the challenge Martinez was forced to make on Hernandez which led to the former's suspension for the next leg, and which in marginally different circumstances (Martinez as last man) could have seen yet another Bayern player red-carded. 

How much Bayern will miss Schwienstieger and Martinez (who were magnificent in the 7-0 drubbing of Barca) is moot give the talent at their disposal, but their absence can't, one imagines, do any harm.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> I agree. Possession stats and pass completion might look jaw-dropping on paper but in reality it was all accomplished by effectively playing 6 in midfield (with Muller the nominal no 9) and with that safety in numbers in place, allowing for a high line and the full backs to push up.
> 
> It follows that there is always a surfeit of options for the player in possession,and while there is a constantly menace there is little or no penetration.
> Akin to a boxer amassing a points total without ever hurting opponent. It really relies on the opposition either losing shape or concentration to  be fully effective.  Eventually many teams do of course succumb. Failing that the egregious intervention of officialdom. Note the faux outrage and indignation over a fairly ordinary challenge by Valencia on Hamn ( a feature of Barcelona's play too incidentally).
> ...



The packed midfield, short passes, safety-in-numbers, press high-up-the-pitch, niggly fouls stuff is why matches involved Guardiola's teams are almost always the exact same pattern. After all, what do you do if the other team has the ball and advances very slowly with it? You retreat and make sure there isn't too much space in behind you. If it works, you cancel out their passing, but are reduced to minimal possession and counter-attacking (at which point Guardiola moans that_ your team_ are just spoilers)

e.g.
http://www.football365.com/news/21554/9245013/Robben-United-Defended-Like-Handball-Team-


----------



## mack (Apr 2, 2014)

I'm kinda hoping Utd nick it 1-0 now, those moaning Germans are getting on my tits. They all seem very confident of winning in Munich so it would be funny to see them fuck it up.


----------



## LiamO (Apr 2, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Though rarely mentioned it it intrinsic in this game plan that if a foul is to be committed it must come _early_ in opposition counter moves (the pig-stickers lunge on Rooney barely outside the Utd area, a case in point) to stymie the type of breakthrough that should have seen Utd take an early lead through Welbeck. And avoid the challenge Martinez was forced to make on Hernandez which led to the former's suspension for the next leg, and which in marginally different circumstances (Martinez as last man) could have seen yet another Bayern player red-carded.



Joe Reilly - it would be interesting to see an analysis of exactly _where_ Barca/Bayern etc commit fouls and _who_ commits them. My money would say the forwards and midfielders leave their defenders in the ha'penny place.

Someone did something similar on the Kerry GAA team - the 'purist footballers' of gaelic Football - over here. Over a 12 -year period nearly 70% of their fouls were committed over 60 metres from the opposition's goal, by full forwards and half-forwards. Just silly little, non-attention grabbing fouls... that hold up the play and allow them all to get behind the ball.

Maybe Guardiola was taking lessons from Páidí O Sé and Jack O'Connor?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 2, 2014)

mack said:


> I'm kinda hoping Utd nick it 1-0 now, those moaning Germans are getting on my tits. They all seem very confident of winning in Munich so it would be funny to see them fuck it up.



Implicit in the criticisms is that any opposition out of a sense of decency should always adopt a strategy that compliments the one adopted by them. 

To do other is nothing less than an abject betrayal of the 'beautiful game'. Obviously.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 2, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Implicit in the criticisms is that any opposition out of a sense of decency should always adopt a strategy that compliments the one adopted by them.
> 
> To do other is nothing less than an abject betrayal of the 'beautiful game'. Obviously.


And the irony is you're all criticising their style of play here and previously Barcelona's style of play came in for criticism. Why? It's technically good and they win matches, comfortably. It should be lauded, surely? Or countered if you don't like it.

Moaning about the opposition is just part of football for managers now, along with referring decisions, fixture scheduling and whatever else. They're like politicians with the shite they come out with to influence decisions etc. But for fans to fall for it is sad.

They play good football and they win. This should be the model for other teams.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 3, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> And the irony is you're all criticising their style of play here and previously Barcelona's style of play came in for criticism. Why? It's technically good and they win matches, comfortably. It should be lauded, surely? Or countered if you don't like it.
> 
> Moaning about the opposition is just part of football for managers now, along with referring decisions, fixture scheduling and whatever else. They're like politicians with the shite they come out with to influence decisions etc. But for fans to fall for it is sad.
> 
> They play good football and they win. This should be the model for other teams.



Define "good football". It's very effective, but very rarely much of a spectacle. Personally, I prefer to see sides that play fast, attacking football that involves taking risks and potentially allowing the other team to play football (examples of this include Dortmund the last few years, Madrid this season, Bayern Munich pre-Barcelona, Manchester City, Germany, Aragones' Spain side in 2008).


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 3, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> And the irony is you're all criticising their style of play here and previously Barcelona's style of play came in for criticism. Why? It's technically good and they win matches, comfortably. It should be lauded, surely? Or countered if you don't like it.
> 
> Moaning about the opposition is just part of football for managers now, along with referring decisions, fixture scheduling and whatever else. They're like politicians with the shite they come out with to influence decisions etc. But for fans to fall for it is sad.
> 
> They play good football and they win. This should be the model for other teams.



If everyone followed the same model it would eventually end up with two teams in attempting to keep possession at all costs, probably never leaving their own halves. Whisper it, but Bayern were a more exciting and better team last year.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 3, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> Define "good football". It's very effective, but very rarely much of a spectacle. Personally, I prefer to see sides that play fast, attacking football that involves taking risks and potentially allowing the other team to play football (examples of this include Dortmund the last few years, Madrid this season, Bayern Munich pre-Barcelona, Manchester City, Germany, Aragones' Spain side in 2008).





Joe Reilly said:


> If everyone followed the same model it would eventually end up with two teams in attempting to keep possession at all costs, probably never leaving their own halves. Whisper it, but Bayern were a more exciting and better team last year.


See, this is what I don't understand. If they've discovered a tactic which allows them to dominate teams, score goals and win consistently - why should they "allow" the other team to play football. This isn't a kick about with your mates on a Wednesday night. It's a competition. They aim is to win and they do.

The other teams need to counter their tactics and so far they've been unable to do that. Their problem, not Bayern's.

It might not be the _most_ attractive football, but then very few teams play the most attractive football. It's far better than most of the Premier League team's football and yet we put up with that week in, week out.

Bayern Munich - Not quite as good as last year


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 3, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> See, this is what I don't understand. If they've discovered a tactic which allows them to dominate teams, score goals and win consistently - why should they "allow" the other team to play football. This isn't a kick about with your mates on a Wednesday night. It's a competition. They aim is to win and they do.
> 
> The other teams need to counter their tactics and so far they've been unable to do that. Their problem, not Bayern's.
> 
> ...


You're not quite getting my point here. I'm not saying Bayern should do anything of the sort. I'm simply remarking that their style of football rarely results in football matches that I find entertaining, and that I find their post-match bleating about the other team's tactics tiresome.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 3, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> The other teams need to counter their tactics and so far they've been unable to do that.



I thought Manchester United countered it quite well, tbh.

(as have Inter Milan, Chelsea, Real Madrid and Atleti against Barcelona over the years)


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 3, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> See, this is what I don't understand. If they've discovered a tactic which allows them to dominate teams, score goals and win consistently - why should they "allow" the other team to play football.



Again you have it the wrong way round.  While the manager insisted it was all 'unfair', Sammer insisted the ref was 'inconsistent', and Robben accused 'the English of playing handball'...


----------



## LiamO (Apr 3, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> I thought Manchester United countered it quite well, tbh.
> 
> (as have Inter Milan, Chelsea, Real Madrid and Atleti against Barcelona over the years)



I think you forgot to mention Celtic - who apart from hammering Barca 2-1 in Nov 2012, also gave them a 1-0 drubbing in 2004 and have also beaten them 0-0 and 1-1 at the Bernabeu


----------



## LiamO (Apr 8, 2014)

So... I fancy Utd to nick this tomorrow if they don't concede early. I reckon Bayern will think they just have to turn up and are due a slap in the kisser... it often happens when teams get labelled unbeatable.

Kagawa to run the show, with him or Rooney supplying Wellbeck with the incisive ball (either over the top or threaded through) that takes advantage of Munich's high-line defence - they don't like it up 'em. Vidic and Fellaini to play a blinder.

or, of course, they might get a good fucking if Bayern get the early goal... Utd's 'confidence' is fragile to say the least... but there is drama left in this tie yet.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Bayern v United.
Sopcast Channel - 146481 is the only decent steady stream i have been able to find at the moment.
sop://broker.sopcast.com:3912/146481


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 9, 2014)

http://www.rider-hdlive.co.uk/p/hd-stream-1.html

pw: rider-hdlive


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 9, 2014)

That didn't last long 

Quality was amazing, too.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 9, 2014)

Streams seem to knacker my laptop these days. Can watch them, but even this sentence has suffered from lag


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> That didn't last long
> 
> Quality was amazing, too.



My Sopcast is still working beautifully 
Only the second time i have used it this season. Usually AceStream nowadays.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

0-0 Half time. Bayern on top but it's an even game.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 9, 2014)

Cricfree seems to be working OK.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 9, 2014)

Good solid defensive half from United


----------



## T & P (Apr 9, 2014)

On a slightly related note, I've just found out Sky 1 is showing the Atletico vs Barca game. And here I was sitting with the tablet on my lap checking updates on the BBC website


----------



## belboid (Apr 9, 2014)

T & P said:


> On a slightly related note, I've just found out Sky 1 is showing the Atletico vs Barca game. And here I was sitting with the tablet on my lap checking updates on the BBC website


Bugger, wish I knew that sooner than 'five minutes before you have to go out'


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

That is a fucking stunning goal from Evra 0-1
Rarely see a volley hit as sweet as that. Best keeper in the world beaten as it left the foot of Evra.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Moments later it's 1-1
22 seconds between goals. Wide open and enjoyable game now.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Sloppy defending Muller makes it 2-1. United under sustained pressure. What a turnaround.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 9, 2014)

Still only have to score one...


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Still only have to score one...



Finely poised for the last twenty mins.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Robben 3-1, i think he should have passed it to the man over but he passed into the net. Game over.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2014)

On Bayern's first, the Guardian's MBM says:

"A quick observation about Bayern's first goal - I suspect it wouldn't have happened on Jose Mourinho's watch. I think Evra and various other players were still reliving the opening goal as Mandzukic stole in to score."

True that, Mourinho was straight in there getting them organised when they scored.  As he was last year when we got knocked out by Madrid.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 9, 2014)

The best bit was Evra's goal and the tiny bit of hope that must have flickered inside Moyes, only to be ruthlessly extinguished just minutes later.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 9, 2014)

Oh


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 9, 2014)

Should have thrown Januzaj and Hernandez on immediately after going 2-1 down,too late now.....


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> The best bit was Evra's goal and the tiny bit of hope that must have flickered inside Moyes, only to be ruthlessly extinguished just minutes later.



You are cruel but accurate.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2014)

I'm not watching the game, just the guardian reporting.  Sounds like Rooney missed a real chance to make it 1-2?


----------



## twistedAM (Apr 9, 2014)

Rooney is playing like he's been involved in pre-match betting.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Wilf said:


> I'm not watching the game, just the guardian reporting.  Sounds like Rooney missed a real chance to make it 1-2?



If he did i missed it.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> If he did i missed it.


 
*64 min: *While I was bringing you up to speed, Manchester United squandered a great opportunity to restore their lead. Danny Welbeck rolled the ball to Wayne Rooney who was in acres of space just 12 yards from the Bayern goal, but the Manchester United No10 scuffed a shot wide when he should have done much better.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

No shame losing to arguably the best team in the world, they should rename themselves Bayern Machine.
For United there is nothing left just the rubble, the dust and the despair.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Wilf said:


> *64 min: *While I was bringing you up to speed, Manchester United squandered a great opportunity to restore their lead. Danny Welbeck rolled the ball to Wayne Rooney who was in acres of space just 12 yards from the Bayern goal, but the Manchester United No10 scuffed a shot wide when he should have done much better.



I was probably busy posting on this thread 
Did anyone else see this opportunity, maybe post match analysis will show it.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 9, 2014)

Barca out as well.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 9, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Rooney is playing like he's been involved in pre-match betting.


 Maybe he's carrying his £300,000 a week wage packet in his pocket,probably whats slowing him down


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 9, 2014)

peterkro said:


> Barca out as well.



Top night of European football.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 9, 2014)

Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Chelsea,pick a winner outa that lot.....


----------



## Badgers (Apr 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:
			
		

> No shame losing to arguably the best team in the world, they should rename themselves Bayern Machine.
> 
> For United there is nothing left just the rubble, the dust and the despair.



Not quite true, they have the Community Shield silverware in hand. Possibly a Europa place next year and hopefully a return to Champions League for 2015/16. 

Don't get what Moyes was thinking tonight. Rooney was carrying that injury and missed two fair chances. He was hardly inspiring the team so why keep him on? Obligation? 

As soon as they were 2-1 down it must have clear it was not working. Little possession and few chances, surely that was gamble time?


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 9, 2014)

Imagine an Atletico - Real final


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Chelsea,pick a winner outa that lot.....


It might well, indirectly, influence the league outcome in both England and Spain.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Wilf said:


> *64 min: *While I was bringing you up to speed, Manchester United squandered a great opportunity to restore their lead. Danny Welbeck rolled the ball to Wayne Rooney who was in acres of space just 12 yards from the Bayern goal, but the Manchester United No10 scuffed a shot wide when he should have done much better.



Just seen the replay of that and your man at The Guardian is correct.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Imagine an Atletico - Real final


Had it in my head the semis were drawn at the same time as the quarters (maybe used to be )  I'm wrong though - draw is in 2 days for both champions league and uefa.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Chelsea might think they have a chance of winning this competition now


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 9, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Atletico Madrid, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Chelsea,pick a winner outa that lot.....



I reckon Bayern and Atletico are the best two teams. Hope that's the final.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Just seen the replay of that and your man at The Guardian is correct.


I've just seen it on youtube.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Chelsea might think they have a chance of winning this competition now


At least there's the chance of John Terry missing another penalty in a final.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Chelsea might think they have a chance of winning this competition now


Why not, I think anyone of the 4 teams  can win it


----------



## Welsh lad (Apr 9, 2014)

The moment United scored, Munich upped their game and were a different class. I struggle to see past them to win the Champions League for a second successive time. They've been a different level to everyone else in the league and Europe.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Why not, I think anyone of the 4 teams  can win it



True that. Didn't expect them to overhaul PSG and semi finals anything can happen. We both have a big semi on saturday


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 9, 2014)

Moyes looks like a broken man in the post match interview. He will be gone in the morning.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Moyes looks like a broken man in the post match interview. He will be gone in the morning.


I haven't seen the interview but he was expected to lose this. There's no way he's getting sacked over this.


----------



## Welsh lad (Apr 9, 2014)

A cracking semi-final line-up as well. Atletico have been a breath of fresh air this season in league and cup.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 9, 2014)

If there was a clause that allowed them to sack him cheaply at the point they fail to qualify for next year's CL, they aren't technically there yet.  Agree though, very unlikely to get rid of him till the end of the season.  Should have gone a while ago, but no point doing it now.


----------



## Eggby (Apr 12, 2014)

Looks like the Moyesy era could be ending...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...anchester-united-3402770#.U0h9NjA7kRo.twitter


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 12, 2014)

If Van Gaal has any sense he would take the Spurs job instead


----------



## Badgers (Apr 12, 2014)

The39thStep said:
			
		

> If Van Gaal has any sense he would take the Spurs job instead



What about the Arsenal job?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 12, 2014)

Badgers said:


> What about the Arsenal job?


or the italian job?


----------



## Badgers (Apr 21, 2014)

Was always going to be a tough game away from home....


----------



## hipipol (Apr 21, 2014)

When do you think the Yanks will offer Marinez the job?


----------



## Epico (Apr 22, 2014)

It's beginning to look official...

m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/27107795


----------



## gabi (Apr 22, 2014)

Thank fuck for that. Now we can move on.


----------



## chilango (Apr 22, 2014)

*relief*

Phew.

Can actually look firward to next season now.

Nice idea, shame it didn't work. But it really didn't.


----------



## gabi (Apr 22, 2014)

Shortest press release ever?

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2014/Apr/club-statement-on-david-moyes.aspx


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 22, 2014)

Doug in Fife said:
			
		

> Which Man Utd players would get into Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool? Rooney maybe. Van Persie when he turns up. That's it. Man Utd were supposed to be different. I'm done supporting them.


Oh Doug in Fife, where is thy faith


----------



## tommers (Apr 22, 2014)

"they've come 7th, I'm done supporting them" 

Well done Doug. 

Martin O'Neill next?  Mark Hughes?


----------



## gabi (Apr 22, 2014)

Jose. The fucking idiots should have just done that at the very beginning. Idiots.


----------



## gabi (Apr 22, 2014)

Giggs has been confirmed anyway for the interim, but fucking hell. Throw money at Jose.


----------



## tommers (Apr 22, 2014)

Jose has managed to fuck up the title with Chelsea this season and their squad is a lot better.   He is also a cunt and plays boring football.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)

tommers said:


> Jose has managed to fuck up the title with Chelsea this season and their squad is a lot better.   He is also a cunt and plays boring football.


Absolutely , third highest goal scorers ,best defensive record in the league, semi finals of the champions league and more points than last season. What United need is Big Sam.


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 22, 2014)

Any Man U fan that actually wants Jose Mourinho to manage them deserves all they get.


----------



## gabi (Apr 22, 2014)

He's a very very good manager though. I'd settle for boring football if we could win again.

He's also passionate. I like that. I can't imagine many managers steaming down the touchline after a winning goal to warn his players to sit back and man mark.


----------



## tommers (Apr 22, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Absolutely , third highest goal scorers ,best defensive record in the league, semi finals of the champions league and more points than last season. What United need is Big Sam.



Big Sam at Manchester would be quite funny.


----------



## chilango (Apr 22, 2014)

Klopp, van Gaal or Mourinho please.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 22, 2014)

gabi said:


> I'd settle for boring football if we could win again.


Good lord, I wouldn't. But then, I was brought up on Keegan's mid-90s Toon


----------



## gabi (Apr 22, 2014)

At least he gives a good press conference.

And he hid in a fucking laundry basket with his head popping out like the grouch on sesame st to get round his stadium ban. What's not to like about that. He deserves the job.


----------



## mack (Apr 22, 2014)

Rafa might be available


----------



## tommers (Apr 22, 2014)

Steve Bruce has done well at Hull.  And there's that connection there.


----------



## tommers (Apr 22, 2014)

Sean Dyche?


----------



## DownwardDog (Apr 22, 2014)

Bryan Robson is probably available and possibly even sober.


----------



## gabi (Apr 22, 2014)

Giggs has his badges. He's now officially caretaker. He's got the job.


----------



## tommers (Apr 22, 2014)

Incey!  The guv'nor. 

Or Roy Keane. 

Both club legends and Ince would be a really positive appointment in terms of giving a black manager a chance at a big club.


----------



## gabi (Apr 22, 2014)

Yes but both are shit managers. They'd be good at somewhere like West Ham, but no. Not United.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)

The Octagon said:


> Any Man U fan that actually wants Jose Mourinho to manage them deserves all they get.


Trophies?


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)

chilango said:


> Klopp, van Gaal or Mourinho please.


Klopp has already said he is loyal to Dortmund , mourinho will stay at Chelsea so that just leaves the man who Spurs wanted to replace Sherwood.


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 22, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Trophies?


 
He'll spend a shedload of cash, win you something with boring football, make the entire season about him and then leave after maybe 2 seasons, with no long term plan in place to develop talent or direct the club.

He's undoubtably a good manager, but he's never going to build a legacy anywhere, he doesn't have the patience.

Actually, looks like he would be suited to Man U then, short-termism as their watchword


----------



## Dr. Furface (Apr 22, 2014)

tommers said:


> Steve Bruce has done well at Hull.  And there's that connection there.


Can't see that happening - Bruce might not even want the job anyway - but I'm sure he'd make a better go of it than Moyes or many others. It occured to me the other day that if the England job were suddenly to become available, Bruce would have a good chance of getting it if the FA decided they'd only consider an English manager and if you look at the other possible candidates, of which there are very few realistic contenders - Pardew has no chance because of his head-butt/temperament, Allardyce no chance because of his brand of football, which probably leaves just Tim Sherwood as the only other possibility! (unless you think they'd bring back Steve McLaren).


----------



## tommers (Apr 22, 2014)

David Beckham?


----------



## Yossarian (Apr 22, 2014)

Darren Ferguson?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 22, 2014)

Yossarian said:


> Darren Ferguson?


 
Sarah Ferguson. Plenty of Fergie's looking for work.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)

The Octagon said:


> He'll spend a shedload of cash, win you something with boring football, make the entire season about him and then leave after maybe 2 seasons, with no long term plan in place to develop talent or direct the club.
> 
> He's undoubtably a good manager, but he's never going to build a legacy anywhere, he doesn't have the patience.
> 
> Actually, looks like he would be suited to Man U then, short-termism as their watchword





The Octagon said:


> He'll spend a shedload of cash, win you something with boring football, make the entire season about him and then leave after maybe 2 seasons, with no long term plan in place to develop talent or direct the club.
> 
> He's undoubtably a good manager, but he's never going to build a legacy anywhere, he doesn't have the patience.
> 
> Actually, looks like he would be suited to Man U then, short-termism as their watchword


 

United suppirters have had boring football all season.
The boring football/Mourinho is a bit of a myth in my view, how many times did Ferguson's teams grind out results? And what legacy or youth team talent did Ferguson leave or club direction?
Mourinho set the EPL record for home and away wins at Chelsea, at Real madrid broke La Ligua scoring records and has the record for the most CL semi finals. United were never going to get him for two reasons: firstly he had an agreement with Chelsea and secondly if he hadn't he would not have wanted to follow Ferguson.The chances of United getting him now are less than zero.


----------



## chilango (Apr 22, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Klopp has already said he is loyal to Dortmund , mourinho will stay at Chelsea so that just leaves the man who Spurs wanted to replace Sherwood.



Yeah.

Tbh I reckon van Gaal would be a good shout. Entertaining relief after this season at least. I'd look forward to him vs Rooney.


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 22, 2014)

Steve McClaren

He's ex-United, he's got a proven track record with club teams and he's previously shown no loyalty when being offered a more prestigious job. He'd leave Derby in a heartbeat for Man U and if he got Boro into Europe, I'm pretty sure he could do it with Man U.

He's actually managed winning clubs (league and cup) and was assistant at Man U during their best years (3 x league, Champions League, FA Cup, World Club Cup (lol) )


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)

*Jan Aage Fjortoft* ‏@*JanAageFjortoft*12 mins
The Telegraph: Manchester United will check if Guardiola is available. Why don't they check out Elvis Presley while they're at it


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 22, 2014)

Fjortoft - legend


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)




----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)

Apparantly Farrage made a TV speech today in which he said that as Moyes had got Manchester out of Europe he should join UKIP


----------



## deadringer (Apr 22, 2014)

gabi said:


> Yes but both are shit managers. They'd be good at somewhere like West Ham, but no. Not United.



Ince at West Ham would be brilliant, with a freshly retired Lampard as his number two.


----------



## Mungy (Apr 22, 2014)

deadringer said:


> Ince at West Ham would be brilliant, with a freshly retired Lampard as his number two.


fnar. number two. fnar.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2014)

deadringer said:


> Ince at West Ham would be brilliant, with a freshly retired Lampard as his number two.


john barnes would be my choice to replace moyes


----------



## big eejit (Apr 22, 2014)




----------



## chilango (Apr 22, 2014)

I fucking love Giggsy though.

Go on. Become the only Utd manager to get a 100% win rate.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 22, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> Steve McClaren
> 
> He's ex-United, he's got a proven track record with club teams and he's previously shown no loyalty when being offered a more prestigious job. He'd leave Derby in a heartbeat for Man U and if he got Boro into Europe, I'm pretty sure he could do it with Man U.
> 
> He's actually managed winning clubs (league and cup) and was assistant at Man U during their best years (3 x league, Champions League, FA Cup, World Club Cup (lol) )



A fair point, but would he really command Fergie style resshpect?


----------



## Fez909 (Apr 22, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> A fair point, but would he really command Fergie style resshpect?



Respect is earned. If he got them playing as a team, and winning - which I believe he would - then the respect would follow.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 22, 2014)

The only manager I ever wanted was Mourinho


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 22, 2014)

Reckon Fergie only picked Moyes cause he still wanted to exert influence on the pitch,unlike someone with a strong personality like say Mourihno or Van Gaal Moyes was never going to tell him to fuck off if he was offered advice from the purpled face one....


----------



## stavros (Apr 22, 2014)

tommers said:


> David Beckham?



Co-managing with Diego Simeone.


----------



## DownwardDog (Apr 23, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Sarah Ferguson. Plenty of Fergie's looking for work.








He's actually working on his UEFA Pro licence at the moment.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 23, 2014)

Scholes returning to coaching staff


> Paul Scholes has returned to help Manchester United's coaching team following the sacking of David Moyes.
> 
> Scholes opted against taking up a full-time position under Moyes as he wanted to spend time with his family.
> 
> But, with long-time friend Ryan Giggs now in charge and former team-mates Nicky Butt and Phil Neville assisting, he has agreed to help out.


----------



## tommers (Apr 23, 2014)

See?  Steve Bruce,  David Beckham,  Roy Keane and incey.  The dream team.


----------



## Mungy (Apr 23, 2014)

cantona


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 23, 2014)

During the war


----------



## Wilf (Apr 23, 2014)

Mungy said:


> cantona


 For me he rather spoiled the effect of his arrogant pirouette at the end by raising his arms. Should have just swaggered back to the halfway line with coutiers in tow.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 23, 2014)

Well, he had to give ol' Brian McClair a hug


----------



## T & P (Apr 23, 2014)

Cantona, with Joey Barton as his no. 1.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 23, 2014)

Just heard Jurgan Klopp has ruled himself out of the utd job but said his brother Klipity might be interested.......


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 23, 2014)

How inexplicable all of it must be for the supporters of 'big teams' like Chelsea, and Liverpool, who bear witness to their heroes nerve and muscle shredding efforts to taste glory being swept from the back pages as a consequence of the opinion-formers being unwilling or unable to tear themselves away from the chin-stroking intrigue provoked by the routine sacking of a mediocre manager at a marginally better than a mid-table club, whose sporting reason for being ended ignominiously at tea-time on Sunday.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 24, 2014)

Alas... how terrible is wisdom when it brings no profit to the wise.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 24, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> Bayern Munich - Not quite as good as last year



Last night they struggled to get a shot on target. Last year they eviscerated Barcelona 4-0 at the same stage. Some conclusions can already be drawn.


----------



## Fedayn (Apr 24, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> How inexplicable all of it must be for the supporters of 'big teams' like Chelsea, and Liverpool, who bear witness to their heroes nerve and muscle shredding efforts to taste glory being swept from the back pages as a consequence of the opinion-formers being unwilling or unable to tear themselves away from the chin-stroking intrigue provoked by the routine sacking of a mediocre manager at a marginally better than a mid-table club, whose sporting reason for being ended ignominiously at tea-time on Sunday.



Because failure is big news. And this was major failure at a club deep in debt who enjoyed the financial rewards of the UCL. 

I'd let that smirk of yours slip for a while if I was you.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 25, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> Last night they struggled to get a shot on target. Last year they eviscerated Barcelona 4-0 at the same stage. Some conclusions can already be drawn.


Looked far more formidable last season in CL.....


----------



## Badgers (Apr 25, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Just heard Jurgan Klopp has ruled himself out of the utd job but said his brother Klipity might be interested.......





Guardiola, Ancelotti and Klopp are now pretty much out of the running. Seems like hopes are pinned on Van Gaal then? If they don't pin him down soon (12 days) he will be starting his world cup campaign which could keep him till late June/July. No doubt he is a great manager but there is a shit load to do at Old Trafford 



> Nemanja Vidic has confirmed he will be joining Inter Milan, while veteran defenders Patrice Evra and Rio Ferdinand are also coming into the final weeks of their contracts and there are also big questions over the futures of Javier Hernandez, Nani, Tom Cleverley, Ashley Young and Alex Buttner.
> 
> Michael Carrick, Cleverley - a target for Everton - Darren Fletcher and Antonio Valencia are only contracted for another year and are likely to want decisions on their situations and Anderson, on-loan at Fiorentina, is likely to move on.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 25, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Guardiola, Ancelotti and Klopp are now pretty much out of the running.


I was never sure how much any of them were genuinely in the running. Why would any of them leave their current club? Only Klopp might be seen as moving to a "bigger" club, but right now I'd think Dortmund are a far more attractive prospect than Man Utd.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 25, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> I was never sure how much any of them were genuinely in the running. Why would any of them leave their current club? Only Klopp might be seen as moving to a "bigger" club, but right now I'd think Dortmund are a far more attractive prospect than Man Utd.



Yeah. 

I am sure that the 'selection committee' have backup plans on their backup plans here but it is a big job.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 25, 2014)

Giggs has ruled himself out of the job on a permanent basis, he wants to spend more time with his brother's family.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 25, 2014)

Surprisingly well spoken as a stand in manager, given he's usually one of the most uncharismatic people ever when interviewed.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 25, 2014)

Fedayn said:


> Because failure is big news. And this was major failure at a club deep in debt who enjoyed the financial rewards of the UCL.
> 
> I'd let that smirk of yours slip for a while if I was you.



On this thread for the last 8 months it is the scousers and ABU's doing all the smirking. Utd have arguably been in decline since 2008. Remarkably, prior to Fellani the last mid-fielder utd signed (Hargreaves) was in 2007. 
The Glazers have leached money from the club and would continue to do so and keep the sponsors happy as long as the team was winning titles and competing in Europe. Now they have a choice. If the refuse to invest the on pitch decline will inevitably continue. Sponsors won't be happy so revenue will eventually seize up. So they can either invest or sell. Or invest _and_ then sell. Simple. 
Either way your smirking dream of steady and continual decline ala Liverpool/Leeds is a chimera. So enjoy it while you can.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 25, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Looked far more formidable last season in CL.....



To put it mildly. Truth is RM could and probably should have scored another couple. Put simply, Guardiola's football philosophy is inferior to his predecessor's in every way.


----------



## BCBlues (Apr 25, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> How inexplicable all of it must be for the supporters of 'big teams' like Chelsea, and Liverpool, who bear witness to their heroes nerve and muscle shredding efforts to taste glory being swept from the back pages as a consequence of the opinion-formers being unwilling or unable to tear themselves away from the chin-stroking intrigue provoked by the routine sacking of a mediocre manager at a marginally better than a mid-table club, whose sporting reason for being ended ignominiously at tea-time on Sunday.



I'm out of breath after reading that


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 25, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> On this thread for the last 8 months it is the scousers and ABU's doing all the smirking. Utd have arguably been in decline since 2008. Remarkably, prior to Fellani the last mid-fielder utd signed (Hargreaves) was in 2007.
> The Glazers have leached money from the club and would continue to do so and keep the sponsors happy as long as the team was winning titles and competing in Europe. Now they have a choice. If the refuse to invest the on pitch decline will inevitably continue. Sponsors won't be happy so revenue will eventually seize up. So they can either invest or sell. Or invest _and_ then sell. Simple.
> Either way your smirking dream of steady and continual decline ala Liverpool/Leeds is a chimera. So enjoy it while you can.


Or they could get you further into debt(they won't invest their own money) and success doesn't come. Spending money is not a guarantee, and utd need a good few position filled.


----------



## belboid (Apr 26, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> On this thread for the last 8 months it is the scousers and ABU's doing all the smirking. Utd have arguably been in decline since 2008. Remarkably, prior to Fellani the last mid-fielder utd signed (Hargreaves) was in 2007.
> The Glazers have leached money from the club and would continue to do so and keep the sponsors happy as long as the team was winning titles and competing in Europe. Now they have a choice. If the refuse to invest the on pitch decline will inevitably continue. Sponsors won't be happy so revenue will eventually seize up. So they can either invest or sell. Or invest _and_ then sell. Simple.
> Either way your smirking dream of steady and continual decline ala Liverpool/Leeds is a chimera. So enjoy it while you can.


your innate faith in a publicly listed company is touching


----------



## Delroy Booth (Apr 26, 2014)

Manchester United are fucking shit


----------



## big eejit (Apr 26, 2014)

Ferguson says Giggs should be given the job permanently. Can imagine the reaction of the owners and other board members. 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/26/alex-ferguson-ryan-giggs-manchester-united-manager


----------



## big eejit (Apr 26, 2014)

Delroy Booth said:


> Manchester United are fucking shit



Even a broken clock is right twice a day. (the other time is the Liverpool thread obv)


----------



## Badgers (Apr 26, 2014)

big eejit said:
			
		

> Ferguson says Giggs should be given the job permanently. Can imagine the reaction of the owners and other board members.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/26/alex-ferguson-ryan-giggs-manchester-united-manager



Ha ha ha  

Giggs has had an amazing career but no player should be chucked straight in at that level. A few games to tide things over but one would think a bit of practice before Man Utd


----------



## Wilf (Apr 26, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Giggs has had an amazing career but no player should be chucked straight in at that level. A few games to tide things over but one would think a bit of practice before Man Utd


 Yes, everything changes when you become a manager. For example, there'll be massive press intrusion into his personal life. No way he could be prepared for _that_...


----------



## Dandred (Apr 26, 2014)

I love how so many top class managers are throwing themselves under the bus to get away from this job!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Apr 26, 2014)

I wonder what Moyes is doing today. Fifteen minutes in and another dull match. Ferguson is in the stands.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 26, 2014)

So, a nice carefree 4 match interlude between a season of shit and the arrival of Hannibal Lecter.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 26, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> Or they could get you further into debt(they won't invest their own money) and success doesn't come. Spending money is not a guarantee, and utd need a good few position filled.



The Glazers plan is predicated on Utd being successful on the field. If the former dries up so eventually will the sponsorship. If the sponsorship dries up their profit margin will as well. So purely on a business level they will have to bite the bullet - or bail. Win, win.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 26, 2014)

Joe Reilly said:


> The Glazers plan is predicated on Utd being successful on the field. If the former dries up so eventually will the sponsorship. If the sponsorship dries up their profit margin will as well. So purely on a business level they will have to bite the bullet - or bail. Win, win.


Personally, I'd have put up with another season of Moyes if it would have got rid of those cunts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Personally, I'd have put up with another season of Moyes if it would have got rid of those cunts.


i'd have put up with the scheduled six seasons of moyes if it got man u into the conference.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Ha ha ha
> 
> Giggs has had an amazing career but no player should be chucked straight in at that level. A few games to tide things over but one would think a bit of practice before Man Utd


it's my plan b. hopefully giggs will get the job for the traditional "six seasons"


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2014)

big eejit said:


> Ferguson says Giggs should be given the job permanently. Can imagine the reaction of the owners and other board members.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/apr/26/alex-ferguson-ryan-giggs-manchester-united-manager


i'm with ferguson on this one, he picks em well


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 26, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Guardiola, Ancelotti and Klopp are now pretty much out of the running. Seems like hopes are pinned on Van Gaal then? If they don't pin him down soon (12 days) he will be starting his world cup campaign which could keep him till late June/July. No doubt he is a great manager but there is a shit load to do at Old Trafford


someone will have to clean out those augean stables.


----------



## leanderman (Apr 26, 2014)

Van Gaal looks the best bet, age aside. 

Anyway, apparently, it's all about the wage bill and not the manager.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Apr 27, 2014)

belboid said:


> your innate faith in a publicly listed company is touching



It's not 'faith' it's business.


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 29, 2014)

Quick learner


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 2, 2014)

Harold Bishop has been linked to the job


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 3, 2014)

Terrible first half from Man U. Looks like next match will be Giggsys penultimate gig.


----------



## Dandred (May 3, 2014)




----------



## Joe Reilly (May 3, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> Terrible first half from Man U. Looks like next match will be Giggsys penultimate gig.


Bring back David Moyes.


----------



## tommers (May 3, 2014)

#giggsout


----------



## DexterTCN (May 3, 2014)

46 years


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 6, 2014)




----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2014)

Ah well, an era which began with an FA Cup goal by Mark Robbins, brought to an end by a decision from Alex Ferguson and Bobby Charlton.


----------



## Badgers (May 11, 2014)

Predictions for next season?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Predictions for next season?


more of the shame


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Ah well, an era which began with an FA Cup goal by Mark Robbins, brought to an end by a decision from Alex Ferguson and Bobby Charlton.


that's SIR alex ferguson and SIR bobby charlton to you


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Predictions for next season?


Assuming van Gaal and £150,000,000, somewhere between 4th and 6th. 4th is pretty much everything working well, couple of good signings that fit right in. 6th is, well, it's got to be at least better than Moyes.


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> that's SIR alex ferguson and SIR bobby charlton to you


Lords of Misrule.


----------



## Badgers (May 11, 2014)

Only just spotted that Man ended the season with a better goal difference (65) than Man Utd have goals scored (64)


----------



## Gingerman (May 11, 2014)

United fans gutted at not qualifying for Thursday night footie


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> United fans gutted at not qualifying for Thursday night footie


man in blue jacket looks like he's howling like a howler monkey

a man utd supporting howler monkey earlier


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> View attachment 53416


Looks like The Mekon.


----------



## Gingerman (May 12, 2014)

United's only game in Europe next season will be when they visit Swansea


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 12, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Looks like The Mekon.



Well, fuck me. No response to that brilliant post of mine and then you pop along sir! Never seen you in the footie forum before and welcome. I don't need to tell you that The Arsenal are the greatest football team the world has ever seen.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 12, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Well, fuck me. No response to that brilliant post of mine and then you pop along sir! Never seen you in the footie forum before and welcome. I don't need to tell you that The Arsenal are the greatest football team the world has ever seen.


I just saw weird head and had to comment. Is the footie season over now? I vaguely saw something about a cup being won and there were some fans walking past mine chanting something or other earlier.  Can you tell I know sod all about football?


----------



## Favelado (May 12, 2014)

Nice season to fly a celebratory banner over Anfield you bell-ends. You must be fucking thick.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 12, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I just saw weird head and had to comment. Is the footie season over now? I vaguely saw something about a cup being won and there were some fans walking past mine chanting something or other earlier.  Can you tell I know sod all about football?



The biggest game of the season is next week 17th May, the sun always shines on cup final day. My beloved Arsenal will lift that cup in victory. Power to the poetry of passing.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 12, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> The biggest game of the season is next week 17th May, the sun always shines on cup final day. My beloved Arsenal will lift that cup in victory. Power to the poetry of passing.


It's just grown men kicking a bag of air round a field to me. Sorry!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 12, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> It's just grown men kicking a bag of air round a field to me. Sorry!



I can accept that providing you know about consent, duress, privacy, contractual arrangements with regards to Work Programme Providers, i already know you know about the Data Protection Act (1998), i'm going to bed now because i'm drunk as a Lord.


----------



## Balbi (May 12, 2014)

Ferdinand off.


----------



## tommers (May 12, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Ferdinand off.



Hey Rio.


----------



## Balbi (May 12, 2014)

Bit unfair really, Carrick and Cleverley's only chance to get near Rio was pre-season


----------



## Joe Reilly (May 13, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Ferdinand off.



If it is true that he was sacked in the tunnel then it all shows is that in getting rid of Moyes Utd only got rid of the front half of the panto horse. Vidic should definitely have been retained if Ferdinand was to go. Indeed Vidic should have been retained period. The faffing about over Van Gaal is also reminiscent of the chaos that surrounded transfers from last July. Remember the £28 million offer for Baines and Fellani? Moyes carried the can for that one. But it had the Ceo's fingerprints all over it. Similarly, the Herrara fiasco. Not to mention the 'pursuit' Fabregas, Bale, Ronaldo...
Some weeks back we were informed that Gill's successor was staying behind in Germany to tie up Tony Kroos. Who put that out? And since? 
£27 bid for Shaw? And what pray was the previous bid? Clueless. It's lying making someone with severe autism head of PR.


----------



## mack (May 19, 2014)

Let the fun begin.


----------



## Joe Reilly (May 19, 2014)

mack said:


> Let the fun begin.



On the contrary, I think for ABU's anyway, the 'fun is over'.


----------



## mack (May 19, 2014)

Two league titles in the last 14 years - not exactly the messiah is he?


----------



## Badgers (May 19, 2014)

#Gaalout


----------



## tommers (May 19, 2014)

Boooooo.


----------



## Joe Reilly (May 19, 2014)

mack said:


> Two league titles in the last 14 years - not exactly the messiah is he?



Why the focus on the last 14 years?


----------



## Wilf (May 19, 2014)

mack said:


> Two league titles in the last 14 years - not exactly the messiah is he?


 He is though, genuinely, a _very_ naughty boy.


----------



## mack (May 19, 2014)

Wilf said:


> He is though, genuinely, a _very_ naughty boy.



He likes to drop his trousers now and again to motivate his teams


----------



## Gingerman (May 19, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27470554
Must be no more pre-PL players left playing  now,ones who featured in the old 1st Div,I feel old


----------



## N_igma (May 19, 2014)

Yeah was wondering who the longest serving outfield player is now in the Premiership anyone know?


----------



## Wilf (May 19, 2014)

N_igma said:


> Yeah was wondering who the longest serving outfield player is now in the Premiership anyone know?


From the Mail . Not quite what you asked for - I think this is 1 club players?

Man Utd – Ryan Giggs, debut 1991, out of contract this summer
Chelsea – John Terry 1998
Liverpool – Steve Gerrard 1998
Newcastle – Shola Ameobi 2000, out of contract this summer
Everton – Tony Hibbert 2001, out of contract this summer
Stoke – Andy Wilkinson 2001
West Ham – Mark Noble 2004
Swansea – Garry Monk 2004, becomes manager
Crystal Palace – Julian Speroni 2004,out of contract this summer
Arsenal – Nicklas Bentdner 2005, out of contract this summer
Man City – Micah Richards 2005
Tottenham – Michael Dawson 2005
Aston Villa – Gaby Agbonlahor 2006
Southampton – Adam Lallana 2006
West Brom – James Morrison 2007
Sunderland - Phil Bardsley 2008, out of contract this summer
Hull City – Paul McShane 2009


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## N_igma (May 19, 2014)

Well doesn't have to be one club players just the longest playing player in the premiership who isn't a goal keeper as the usually play into their late 30's early 40's anyway.


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## Fez909 (May 19, 2014)

Goalies shouldn't be excluded.


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## belboid (May 20, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27470554
> Must be no more pre-PL players left playing  now,ones who featured in the old 1st Div,I feel old


Giggs' first season was the Premiership's first too. 

Brad Friedel & Kevin Phillips are both older than Giggs, but both started later.  And Phillips has just retired.


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## Gingerman (May 20, 2014)

belboid said:


> Giggs' first season was the Premiership's first too.
> 
> QUOTE]
> Giggs made  40 (including seven as a sub) apperances in 1991-92 for United, the season before the PL was formed.


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## belboid (May 20, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Yeah but did'nt he make his debut in the old 1st Div back in 1991?


it was! Must have been first 'full' season I saw referred to elsewhere. Good spot!


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## Gingerman (May 20, 2014)

belboid said:


> it was! Must have been first 'full' season I saw referred to elsewhere. Good spot!


Bah,made a mess of my original reply to you,Giggs actually made 40 appearences for United in 1991-92 including 7 as a sub just before the PL was formed in 1992, so he must be the last survivor of the old 1st Div era still playing up to last season.


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## belboid (May 20, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> Bah,made a mess of my original reply to you,Giggs actually made 40 appearences for United in 1991-92 including 7 as a sub just before the PL was formed in 1992, so he must be the last survivor of the old 1st Div era still playing up to last season.


had been for a few years I imagine.


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## strung out (May 20, 2014)

Wrong - Paul Telfer played for Luton Town in division one that season and is still playing for Sutton United in the Conference South.


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## strung out (May 20, 2014)

Also, Frank Sinclair (Chelsea that season) is player manager at Colwyn Bay.


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## Fez909 (May 25, 2014)

Barca bid £50m for Mata apparently. Van G happy to listen to offers.


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## souljacker (May 28, 2014)

Sounds like Glazer has died.


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## souljacker (May 28, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27614216


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## Wilf (May 28, 2014)

You can't take it with you when you go.


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## Fez909 (May 28, 2014)




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## peterkro (May 28, 2014)

Wilf said:


> You can't take it with you when you go.


Unfortunately you can leave it to your half witted family.


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## TheHoodedClaw (May 28, 2014)




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## belboid (May 28, 2014)

souljacker said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27614216


he was 86??!! blimey


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## Wilf (May 29, 2014)

We'll probably have to sell Rooney to pay for the cunt's funeral.


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## twistedAM (May 29, 2014)

Top guy. RIP


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## goldenecitrone (May 29, 2014)

Wilf said:


> We'll probably have to sell Rooney to pay for the cunt's funeral.



He's opted for an ancient Chinese burial. The squad have been drugged and laid out around his tomb.


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## Wilf (May 29, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Top guy. RIP


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## Wilf (May 29, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> He's opted for an ancient Chinese burial. The squad have been drugged and laid out around his tomb.


 A Terracotta Phil Jones army.


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## twistedAM (May 29, 2014)

Wilf said:


>


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## goldenecitrone (May 29, 2014)

Wilf said:


> A Terracotta Phil Jones army.



People will dig them up in thousands of years and comment on the length of their shorts.


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## big eejit (Jun 4, 2014)




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