# Sherlock - Series 2



## London_Calling (Jan 1, 2012)

As per S1; 3 x 90-minute dramas - beginning New Years Day, 8.10 BBC1.

Same three people writing one drama each, which means as well as Gatiss and Moffat, Steve Thompson gets one - he writes the third one this time instead of the 'less well received' middle one of the first series (well, imo anyway).

Paul Mcguigan directs two, as he did last time.

They've gone for a couple of biggies:

1. A Scandal in Belgravia (Moffat)
2. The Hounds of Baskerville (Gatiss)
3. The Reichenbach Fall (Thompson)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherlock_(TV_series)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00m5wm7


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## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2012)

I find gatiss mycroft to be almost unbearably smug, but I suppose that is the point.

Still not sure wether moriarty is alive or dead- last one I saw ended in the swimming pool on an uncertain note?

anyway, will be watching


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 1, 2012)

A scandal in Bohemia is one of my favourites


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## London_Calling (Jan 1, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I find gatiss mycroft to be almost unbearably smug


Thus requiring little acting.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jan 1, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> A scandal in Bohemia is one of my favourites



May I commend you, then, to Lawrence Miles' Holmes Bestiary, in which the unexpurgated version is presented for the first time?

http://holmesbestiary.blogspot.com/


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## killer b (Jan 1, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Still not sure wether moriarty is alive or dead- last one I saw ended in the swimming pool on an uncertain note?
> 
> anyway, will be watching


the final show of the new three is the one where Moriarty throws Sherlock off a cliff, so I'm guessing he's still alive for this series...


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## Maggot (Jan 1, 2012)

So does Sherlock die in Reichenbach Falls (or whatever it's called)? and if so will the writers bring him back again like Conan Doyle did?

Looking forward to this.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2012)

killer b said:


> the final show of the new three is the one where Moriarty throws Sherlock off a cliff, so I'm guessing he's still alive for this series...


 
ah right. I've only read the Hounds of, and the one where the mysterious woman out-games the master detective


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## killer b (Jan 1, 2012)

you should definitely read them all asap then. fantastic stories, and ideal for bedtime reading due to their shortish length.


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## Termite Man (Jan 1, 2012)

I will have to remember to watch these on iplayer


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jan 1, 2012)

So having turned on late I NEED to know how he escaped from the pool...


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## killer b (Jan 1, 2012)

I guess its obvious where Moffat's efforts are concentrated atm.


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## madzone (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh god that password bit was cheesy


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## wayward bob (Jan 1, 2012)

i loved it  don't know the original stories. i rarely watch any telly these days, but that kept me gripped throughout. and a good few proper laughs too 

plus i have to run through on freeze frame to work out how she did her hair  mr b seems to approve of this plan


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## killer b (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah, it was fantastic.


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2012)

Most entertaining 90 minutes of TV I've seen in ages.


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## Redeyes (Jan 1, 2012)

I'd not seen the previous series and liked what I saw tonight. 

Can't wait to see the next one.


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## wayward bob (Jan 1, 2012)

i really like their flat - it's nicely faded/grotty


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## madzone (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh, I liked it. It was just the password bit made me groan.


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## D'wards (Jan 1, 2012)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> So having turned on late I NEED to know how he escaped from the pool...


Moriarty got a call and withdrew, taking all his men.


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## ruffneck23 (Jan 1, 2012)

I thought it was great


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeah, that password was really rather unbelievable, in a very literal way.

Other than that (just about), very enjoyable


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## ruffneck23 (Jan 1, 2012)

but did any of us guess the password ? cheesy it might be but too clever for us lol


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2012)

D'wards said:


> Moriarty got a call and withdrew, taking all his men.


From Adler, at least that was the implication.


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## D'wards (Jan 1, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> From Adler, at least that was the implication.


Who's Adler?


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## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2012)

Enjoyed. Lots of good asides
'don't you trust them'
'Of course not, they spy on people for money'


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Enjoyed. Lots of good asides
> 'don't you trust them'
> 'Of course not, they spy on people for money'


Yeah, I lolled at that.


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## mrsfran (Jan 1, 2012)

Adler is The Woman. 

I bloody loved it


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## T & P (Jan 1, 2012)

That was bloody good wasn't it?


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 1, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> From Adler, at least that was the implication.



I thought it might have been from Mycroft? Not sure I "got" the whole faked plane blowing up stuff.
Mind I've not sobered up yet, so...

Anyway, I enjoyed it, and am looking forward to the other two.


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## London_Calling (Jan 1, 2012)

Bit like a fairground ride.

It'll be interesting to contrast the styles in 2 and 3.


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2012)

mrsfran said:


> Adler is The Woman.





D'wards said:


> Who's Adler?


Ugh, Kindle has quoted them the wrong way round, but, y'know, this.


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## Bungle73 (Jan 1, 2012)

Nice hat.


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 1, 2012)

What a steaming pile of shite. Worst programme I've seen all Christmas.


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## Bungle73 (Jan 1, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> What a steaming pile of shite. Worst programme I've seen all Christmas.


Eastenders you mean?


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 1, 2012)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I thought it might have been from Mycroft? Not sure I "got" the whole faked plane blowing up stuff.


 The British had cracked 'the terrorists' code, but if the tey stopped the plane blowing up the terrorists would change the code, so they fake the plane blowing up, the terrorists keep using the code and the British listen in, presumably for something more important.


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## killer b (Jan 1, 2012)

the only bad thing about this was that it meant we had to miss the start of ferris beuller's day off.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2012)

well you didn't mis much, ferris bueller is like roger the dodger- basically a twat


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## killer b (Jan 1, 2012)

whatever. it's still a fine movie.


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## moonsi til (Jan 1, 2012)

well I really enjoyed it and was pleasantly lost throughout! I just remembered that I bought a Sherlock Holmes board game from a charity shop that I have not played yet...will need to rectify this and read the books.


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## London_Calling (Jan 1, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> The British had cracked 'the terrorists' code, but if the tey stopped the plane blowing up the terrorists would change the code, so they fake the plane blowing up, the terrorists keep using the code and the British listen in, presumably for something more important.


Right. Like killing the same terrorits.

Someone remind me, why were they in Buckingham Palace, and Battersea Power Station, and ... wft was that boomerang nonsense, etc, etc. The difficulty with Moffat is he just can't help himself. But yeah, a very watchable romp, in a kind of Valium hazey way.


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## girasol (Jan 1, 2012)

Is Sherlock meant to be an aspie?  Or autistic even? That's all I could think when I was watching bits of it. Didn't pay close attention...


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 1, 2012)

girasol said:


> Is Sherlock meant to be an aspie? Or autistic even? That's all I could think when I was watching bits of it. Didn't pay close attention...



He says (possibly defends) himself in this continuity as a "high-performing sociopath"


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## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Right. Like killing the same terrorits.
> 
> Someone remind me, why were they in Buckingham Palace, and Battersea Power Station, and ... wft was that boomerang nonsense, etc, etc. The difficulty with Moffat is he just can't help himself. But yeah, a very watchable romp, in a kind of Valium hazey way.



because the mucky pictures were of a royal. IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE


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## London_Calling (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh yes, hence the BLACK HELICOPTER for Dr Watson. To The Palace.

When it's that contrived what should be really good throw-aways like 'here comes the Queen' (when Mycroft arrives) also suffer. But that is Moffat; some great lines amid some very bright lights.


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## Bungle73 (Jan 1, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Oh yes, hence the BLACK HELICOPTER for Dr Watson. To The Palace.


What's the significance of a black helicopter?


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## goldenecitrone (Jan 1, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Eastenders you mean?



No, shit Sherlock.


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## London_Calling (Jan 1, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> What's the significance of a black helicopter?


It belonged to THE STATE and was thus VERY IMPORTANT.


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## Mumbles274 (Jan 1, 2012)

i liked it, good mix between thinking sherlock had the upper hand and 'the woman' had it. i enjoyed it


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## ethel (Jan 2, 2012)

what was the point of the "boomerang" murder?


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## zoooo (Jan 2, 2012)

Fucking brilliant episode.
One of the best dramas we've got by far.


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## ginger_syn (Jan 2, 2012)

ethel said:


> what was the point of the "boomerang" murder?



there was no point except to show  how brilliant he is by working out that it was an unlucky accident.


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## ginger_syn (Jan 2, 2012)

I thought it was excellent, made me laugh and think and it is a nice change to really enjoy a tv program without getting bored in places and wondering if something better is on another channel.


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## Espresso (Jan 2, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> No, shit Sherlock.



While I completely disagree with the sentiment, I couldn't that line go by without a commending you for it. Very nice work. 

I loved it. One liners and physical stuff that actually made me laugh. I thought the zonked out Sherlock flapping about in the bedroom was ace, as was Dr Watson losing his cool and really getting into the fisticuffs with Holmes. I've never read the story, so I didn't know what was coming next and it completely held my attention, right to the end. Ace.


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## Santino (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd like to see an annotated version of this episode to get all the references and allusions. I spotted The Speckled Band, The Greek Interpreter and Watson's middle name. I had to google the Vatican Cameos.


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## wayward bob (Jan 2, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> No, shit Sherlock.



have they actually used this line yet?


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## vauxhallmum (Jan 2, 2012)

moonsi til said:


> well I really enjoyed it and was pleasantly lost throughout! I just remembered that I bought a Sherlock Holmes board game from a charity shop that I have not played yet...will need to rectify this and read the books.



Is that 221b Baker Street?  I used to have that, it's great. The Game's Afoot!


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## madzone (Jan 2, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> have they actually used this line yet?


I think they used it in the first ever episode but I might have dreamt it.


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## wayward bob (Jan 2, 2012)

i like that watson calls him shirl


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## Badgers (Jan 2, 2012)

Looking forward to watching this


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## moonsi til (Jan 2, 2012)

vauxhallmum said:


> Is that 221b Baker Street?  I used to have that, it's great. The Game's Afoot!


 
yes it is... I got out of bed last night to look at it after reading this thread.


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## marty21 (Jan 2, 2012)

There was twitter chat about this being anti-women, how Sherlock has to save the woman and woman don't need saving - how her character was excellent until they spoiled it by allowing her to be saved. I don't think I watched the same programme - thought it an enjoyable romp.


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## Badgers (Jan 2, 2012)

Espresso said:
			
		

> While I completely disagree with the sentiment, I couldn't that line go by without a commending you for it. Very nice work.
> 
> I loved it. One liners and physical stuff that actually made me laugh. I thought the zonked out Sherlock flapping about in the bedroom was ace, as was Dr Watson losing his cool and really getting into the fisticuffs with Holmes. I've never read the story, so I didn't know what was coming next and it completely held my attention, right to the end. Ace.



What was he drugged with then?


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## London_Calling (Jan 2, 2012)

Anyone who put online Sherlock's text alert sound should be approaching their first million by around... say, 5.00pm.


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## Espresso (Jan 2, 2012)

Badgers said:


> What was he drugged with then?



Don't think we were told, as far as I can remember. I know Sherlock and Dr Watson both asked her what she'd given him, but she never said.


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## Bungle73 (Jan 2, 2012)

It was pretty obvious she drugged him.  She injected him with something and he fell to the floor where he became unconscious.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 2, 2012)

nobody is disputing that he was drugged, just asking what with, which we were not told. I'd assume a chemical cosh like thorazine


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## Badgers (Jan 2, 2012)

Bungle73 said:
			
		

> It was pretty obvious she drugged him.  She injected him with something and he fell to the floor where he became unconscious.



I think all us sleuths sussed that. Just wondered what it was. She said she used it on her clients too.


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## D'wards (Jan 2, 2012)

Are these ones based on Conan Doyle stories?

Next weeks one obviously is, but were last series from the books?


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## Espresso (Jan 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> nobody is disputing that he was drugged, just asking what with, which we were not told. I'd assume a chemical cosh like thorazine



Ah right. I misunderstood you. No idea what it might have been, though.


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## Badgers (Jan 2, 2012)

Espresso said:
			
		

> Ah right. I misunderstood you. No idea what it might have been, though.



Have you emailed the production company and asked?


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## Bungle73 (Jan 2, 2012)

Misread, sorry.



D'wards said:


> Are these ones based on Conan Doyle stories?
> 
> Next weeks one obviously is, but were last series from the books?



They all are I believe.


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## madzone (Jan 2, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I think all us sleuths sussed that. Just wondered what it was. She said she used it on her clients too.


You're such a sarcastic cunt


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## Badgers (Jan 2, 2012)

madzone said:
			
		

> You're such a sarcastic cunt



Shut it you


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## Espresso (Jan 2, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Have you emailed the production company and asked?



Strangely enough; no.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 2, 2012)

it was probably thorazine/largactil from the effects. Would have been more realistic if he had shit himself


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## madzone (Jan 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> it was probably thorazine/largactil from the effects. Would have been more realistic if he had shit himself


Why would she give that to her clients?


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## DotCommunist (Jan 2, 2012)

Leaves you conscious but helpless?


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## madzone (Jan 2, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Leaves you conscious but helpless?


Hmm...interesting.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 2, 2012)

They ran the full gamut of tied-up etc gags as well. Oh and 'I know what he likes' is signature moffat get-away-with-anything plotting like 'the Doctor lies'


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## T & P (Jan 2, 2012)

Judging by the reviews I've seen so far the critics fucking loved it as well.

Which begs the question, why hasn't Atomic Suplex been along to rubbish it yet? Is he okay?


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## Helen Back (Jan 3, 2012)

D'wards said:


> Are these ones based on Conan Doyle stories?
> 
> Next weeks one obviously is, but were last series from the books?



Only the first one.


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## Reno (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched it. I thought this was the best episode since the very first one. Great fun.


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## ruffneck23 (Jan 3, 2012)

Helen Back said:


> Only the first one.



Strange that next weeks is the hound of the baskervilles then...


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## Limejuice (Jan 3, 2012)

When I read the stories - admittedly decades ago - I didn't picture Professor Moriarty being played by Graham Norton's kid brother.

Sinister, he is not.


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## Helen Back (Jan 3, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> Strange that next weeks is the hound of the baskervilles then...


Read the question I am answering. You see but you do not observe.


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## Badgers (Jan 3, 2012)

Limejuice said:
			
		

> When I read the stories - admittedly decades ago - I didn't picture Professor Moriarty being played by Graham Norton's kid brother.
> 
> Sinister, he is not.



Yup. I think they could have done better there.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 3, 2012)

Limejuice said:


> When I read the stories - admittedly decades ago - I didn't picture Professor Moriarty being played by Graham Norton's kid brother.
> 
> Sinister, he is not.


Newsflash: sherlock is not a faithful rendition of the holmes stories


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## Wolveryeti (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent episode... apart from the schmaltzy ending.


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## RubyToogood (Jan 3, 2012)

Tripe, but gripping tripe.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 3, 2012)

I was reading the hound of the d'urbervilles recently where col sebastian moran notes that for professor moriarty irene adler was always 'that bitch'


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## vauxhallmum (Jan 3, 2012)

Limejuice said:


> When I read the stories - admittedly decades ago - I didn't picture Professor Moriarty being played by Graham Norton's kid brother.
> 
> Sinister, he is not.



Who knew Declan Donnellan could act?


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 3, 2012)

Occurred to me on the bus this morning: if Sherlock did in fact save Adler (which undermines a few things, frankly), then why was Mycroft so convinced she was definitely dead this time?

I've always understood that Mycroft is the one person smarter than Sherlock, so was he lying to Watson, or is Mycroft actually a bit of a thickie?


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## Santino (Jan 3, 2012)

Helen Back said:


> Only the first one.


The third episode had elements from the original stories.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 3, 2012)

I enjoyed the first series of Sherlock and was looking forward to the second, but found that it had got far too silly and tricksy. The "Little Man Tate"-esque on-screen text was overdone, and distracting; the camera angles and cutting were intrusive; and the walk-through sequences of the solution to the car-backfiring puzzle were disjointed. All this and more detracted from the excellent character portrayals by the actors, and has made me extremely unlikely to watch the next episode.


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## London_Calling (Jan 3, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Occurred to me on the bus this morning: if Sherlock did in fact save Adler (which undermines a few things, frankly), then why was Mycroft so convinced she was definitely dead this time?
> 
> I've always understood that Mycroft is the one person smarter than Sherlock, so was he lying to Watson, or is Mycroft actually a bit of a thickie?


He was just outwitted for once?


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## Santino (Jan 3, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Occurred to me on the bus this morning: if Sherlock did in fact save Adler (which undermines a few things, frankly), then why was Mycroft so convinced she was definitely dead this time?
> 
> I've always understood that Mycroft is the one person smarter than Sherlock, so was he lying to Watson, or is Mycroft actually a bit of a thickie?


Mycroft is smarter, but he is a generalist. Sherlock has focussed all his powers on criminology, so he can beat Mycroft in that field at least.


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## wayward bob (Jan 3, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> I was reading the hound of the d'urbervilles recently where col sebastian moran notes that for professor moriarty irene adler was always 'that bitch'



did you cry when the dog gets hanged at the end?


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## Mumbles274 (Jan 3, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> did you cry when the dog gets hanged at the end?


you're thinking of tess of the baskervilles


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## ruffneck23 (Jan 3, 2012)

Helen Back said:


> Read the question I am answering. You see but you do not observe.



oops :


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 3, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> He was just outwitted for once?





Santino said:


> Mycroft is smarter, but he is a generalist. Sherlock has focussed all his powers on criminology, so he can beat Mycroft in that field at least.


Hmm and hmm, say I. He seems to be outwitted quite a bit, for someone who's supposed to be such a smartwit.

Though i take the point about him being a generalist. Just about. On faith.


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## wayward bob (Jan 3, 2012)

Mumbles274 said:


> you're thinking of tess of the baskervilles



oh yeah, silly me


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## likesfish (Jan 3, 2012)

Seems if the dominatrix had booby trapped a safe with a silenced pistol leading to a dead person the state could throw her in jail for forever.

"I was in the army I killed people"
" you were a doctor"
"I had bad days"


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## telbert (Jan 3, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Occurred to me on the bus this morning: if Sherlock did in fact save Adler (which undermines a few things, frankly), then why was Mycroft so convinced she was definitely dead this time?
> 
> I've always understood that Mycroft is the one person smarter than Sherlock, so was he lying to Watson, or is Mycroft actually a bit of a thickie?


 Mycroft believes her to be dead.In the cafe scene near the end,after telling Watson she had been beheaded he says"i was thorough this time John,it would take Sherlock  Holmes to fool me".


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## Balbi (Jan 3, 2012)

The discussion over Adler's character being advised by Moriarty's steaming away over at the Grauniad. Mostly over the fact people can't get past the idea that a dominatrix isnt a prostitute.

Moffat does have a problem with writing women and writing for women you know.


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## QueenOfGoths (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched it and thought it was great!! Thoroughly enjoyable.


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## Espresso (Jan 3, 2012)

likesfish said:


> Seems if the dominatrix had booby trapped a safe with a silenced pistol leading to a dead person the state could throw her in jail for forever.



The booby trapped safe did kill one of the Americans and Sherlock asked Mycroft why she wasn't being done for murder, like you say. Mycroft said that as long as she stll had the information, he was powerless to arrest her. Seemed weak to me. Why not just have her murdered? Now right enough, he still wouldn't have known what was on the phone. But neither would any other sod. So the information would have been still on the phone with no one knowing what it was or how to get it out, so they might as well have shot that, too.
Job done.


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## Corax (Jan 3, 2012)

It was good, but not a patch on Treasure Island IMO.


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## mauvais (Jan 3, 2012)

Balbi said:


> The discussion over Adler's character being advised by Moriarty's steaming away over at the Grauniad. Mostly over the fact people can't get past the idea that a dominatrix isnt a prostitute.
> 
> Moffat does have a problem with writing women and writing for women you know.


That's a terrible article. Plus the author's comment photo is clearly of Richard Herring. Obviously saying this ruins my critique somewhat.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 3, 2012)

Espresso said:


> The booby trapped safe did kill one of the Americans and Sherlock asked Mycroft why she wasn't being done for murder, like you say. Mycroft said that as long as she stll had the information, he was powerless to arrest her. Seemed weak to me. Why not just have her murdered? Now right enough, he still wouldn't have known what was on the phone. But neither would any other sod. So the information would have been still on the phone with no one knowing what it was or how to get it out, so they might as well have shot that, too.
> Job done.


i don't believe mycroft has any powers of arrest


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## likesfish (Jan 3, 2012)

I think my croft could suggest somebody should be arrested or cease to breathe and it would e arranged rather quickly.


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## Espresso (Jan 3, 2012)

I've never read any of the Holmes' stories, so I don't know what Mycroft's job actually is. From the little I have gathered, he seems to be a sort of shadowy higher up nib in a powerful government thingymajiggerypokery department.

So in other words, I should have said what littlefish said.


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## Cid (Jan 4, 2012)

Espresso said:


> I've never read any of the Holmes' stories, so I don't know what Mycroft's job actually is. From the little I have gathered, he seems to be a sort of shadowy higher up nib in a powerful government thingymajiggerypokery department.
> 
> So in other words, I should have said what littlefish said.



If Holmes is a consulting detective, Mycroft is a consulting goverment...

His weakness, in the books at least, is physical laziness - or at least not wanting to put the kind of effort into something that Sherlock (who often forgoes sleep and food, bangs up coke and generally treats himself like shit) does.


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## Cid (Jan 4, 2012)

Enjoyed it for the most part, except for that utterly shit bit tacked on at the end.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 4, 2012)

Cid said:


> Enjoyed it for the most part, except for that utterly shit bit tacked on at the end.


After the swimming pool bit?


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## Cid (Jan 4, 2012)

It had it's negatives, I agree but found it ok - some good acting, weak directing but - as I say - enjoyed it (after a few beers). The beheading bit was just really shit, didn't fit with the rest of it, totally unnecessary - just why?


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## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2012)

Happy ending. Leaving 'the woman' as dead would have ruined a happy ending, despite that fact that that end bit could well have prefaced her re-emergence in a later episode. The obsession with happy endings has got out of control.

re: mycroft/sherlock. Sherlock is intense focus, arrogant with it yes, but he doesn't have mycrofts urbane bigger picture machinations. Sherlock wants locks to pick, mycroft wants to own the lockmakers. IYSWIM


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## danny la rouge (Jan 4, 2012)

Cid said:


> The beheading bit was just really shit, didn't fit with the rest of it, totally unnecessary - just why?


I disagree; it fitted very well with the rest of it.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2012)

yeah but you think it was a load of nonsense so a nonsense ending is in keeping with the piece.

I tell you what didn't add value and was confusing- the whole boomerang murder bit. The piece would have been far tighter without that


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## danny la rouge (Jan 4, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I tell you what didn't add value and was confusing- the whole boomerang murder bit. The piece would have been far tighter without that


Indeed. And without the tricksy edits and angles, and the Little Man Tate on-screen text (or at least severely cut down).

The basic story itself is fine. In fact, it was the first episode of the Jeremy Brett series, iirc.

I didn't think the episode was nonsense; I thought it was crap.


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## Cid (Jan 4, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Happy ending. Leaving 'the woman' as dead would have ruined a happy ending, despite that fact that that end bit could well have prefaced her re-emergence in a later episode. The obsession with happy endings has got out of control.
> 
> re: mycroft/sherlock. Sherlock is intense focus, arrogant with it yes, but he doesn't have mycrofts urbane bigger picture machinations. Sherlock wants locks to pick, mycroft wants to own the lockmakers. IYSWIM



That's not what I mean. Didn't need to end with death or happiness - she's beats him, that's the point in her character - completely fucked up by having him rescue her from a bunch of those evil Arabs we hear so much about. He should be left in a sort of bewildered admiration, not smugly triumphant.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2012)

Oh, I see! Well I have read a sherlock story where he is outwitted by 'the woman' many years ago (along with baskerville at uni) and there was no such sherlock save. She just outwitted him completely irrc. Purloined Letter? I'm no authority on conan doyle


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2012)

No thats Poe  I'm useless


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 4, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh, I see! Well I have read a sherlock story where he is outwitted by 'the woman' many years ago (along with baskerville at uni) and there was no such sherlock save. She just outwitted him completely irrc. Purloined Letter? I'm no authority on conan doyle


_Scandal in Bohemia_, upon which this episode was based.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 4, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm no authority on conan doyle


No shit, _etc_.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2012)

I've been conflating purloined letter with Scandal for far too long. This is what happens when you read too much and more or less on random impulse


----------



## Cid (Jan 4, 2012)

indeed.

Summary on wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scandal_in_Bohemia


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2012)

I liked the rescue. It fits in with the Victorian adventure genre. Popping over to the Orient to sort the darkies out and back in time for tea. Maybe a bit more Buchan than Conan Doyle, but still.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 4, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> the tricksy edits and angles, and the Little Man Tate on-screen text


See, I liked that. It added to the modern take on things, stylish, slick, cool etc.

It's not classic Holmes, it's a 21st century remake. If you want traditional drama watch Jeremy Brett.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 4, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's not classic Holmes, it's a 21st century remake.


I know. And I liked the first series. (As I said in my initial post on this thread). But they've just gone too silly and tricksy with this first episode of series 2.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 5, 2012)

It's not classic Holmes, it's a 21st century remake. If you want traditional drama watch Jeremy Brett.[/quote]

I really disliked the Brett series, it depressed and bored me as well as sucking away any enthusiasm I had for reading  holmes stories.  Stephen Moffats series has been enjoyable viewing and has rekindled my intrest in re-reading the stories. So for me its well done mr Moffat and thank you.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 5, 2012)

above should show the quote is from beesonthewhatnow but it went a bit wrong .


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 5, 2012)

ginger_syn said:


> above should show the quote is from beesonthewhatnow but it went a bit wrong .



You need to add square brackets at the front of the quote saying: [ quote="beesonthewhatnow, post 1079890" ]

You've still got time to edit. You can c&p it from there ^ But take away the spaces.


----------



## Part 2 (Jan 5, 2012)

When's the next one on?

I thought they were on consecutive nights, just sat down to watch the second on iPlayer


----------



## Badgers (Jan 5, 2012)

Sunday I think?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2012)

8.20 I believe, getting later each week, the cunts.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 5, 2012)

Sunday 8.30pm


----------



## Stigmata (Jan 5, 2012)

Espresso said:


> The booby trapped safe did kill one of the Americans and Sherlock asked Mycroft why she wasn't being done for murder, like you say. Mycroft said that as long as she stll had the information, he was powerless to arrest her. Seemed weak to me. Why not just have her murdered? Now right enough, he still wouldn't have known what was on the phone. But neither would any other sod. So the information would have been still on the phone with no one knowing what it was or how to get it out, so they might as well have shot that, too.
> Job done.



They'd have to assume she'd have some way of getting the information out 'in the event of her disappearance'


----------



## T & P (Jan 6, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Sunday 8.30pm


 Good. That leaves 30 minutes of pre-watershed time available to show some more flesh and further piss off the Daily Mail


----------



## killer b (Jan 6, 2012)

they weren't pissed off.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 6, 2012)

killer b said:


> they weren't pissed off.


Neither was I.


----------



## killer b (Jan 6, 2012)

Nor me tbf. I'll take my titilation where I find it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 6, 2012)

I was fucking furious. I smashed up my own tele.


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jan 6, 2012)

Congratulations to Benedict Cumberbatch for getting the part of the chief baddy in the next Star Trek film.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 6, 2012)

mystic pyjamas said:


> Congratulations to Benedict Cumberbatch for getting the part of the chief baddy in the next Star Trek film.


Yes, I read that too.  Obviously in the same place as you, since I don't know which baddie either.


----------



## Stigmata (Jan 6, 2012)

It's a good sign in some ways because it's unlikely they'll be remaking Wrath of Khan


----------



## Hulot (Jan 6, 2012)

It left me with the impression that the rescue from the execution was all in Sherlock's mind, so I'm not sure the ending was a happy one.


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 6, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Occurred to me on the bus this morning: if Sherlock did in fact save Adler (which undermines a few things, frankly), then why was Mycroft so convinced she was definitely dead this time?
> 
> I've always understood that Mycroft is the one person smarter than Sherlock, so was he lying to Watson, or is Mycroft actually a bit of a thickie?



Sherlock knew she had died, but was having a fantasy about saving her.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 6, 2012)

Hulot said:


> It left me with the impression that the rescue from the execution was all in Sherlock's mind, so I'm not sure the ending was a happy one.



Yeah, I thought that too. Anyway it is left a bit ambiguous, and I wouldn't be all that surprised to see Irene Adler back at some point.


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Did anyone notoce that when she looked at the booby trapped safe after it had gone off she frowned? It left me wondering if it wasn't her that had booby trapped it.


----------



## Termite Man (Jan 7, 2012)

I must have missed this saving the girl from execution bit , is it right at the end ?


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes.


----------



## Termite Man (Jan 7, 2012)

madzone said:


> Yes.



just re-watched the end now , I think once the main bits are done I sort of turn off and don't pay full attention


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> just re-watched the end now , I think once the main bits are done I sort of turn off and don't pay full attention


It _was_ kind of key to the whole thing though


----------



## Termite Man (Jan 7, 2012)

madzone said:


> It _was_ kind of key to the whole thing though



it's only key if they use it later in the series though.


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 7, 2012)

madzone said:


> It _was_ kind of key to the whole thing though


In what way?


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> In what way?


Because she didn't die and can come back later.


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Termite Man said:


> it's only key if they use it later in the series though.


Yeah, that's what I meant. I was writing a shopping list and dealing with a toddler on a potty whilst typing that. Sorry


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 7, 2012)

madzone said:


> Because she didn't die and can come back later.


I think she did die.


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I think she did die.


Well, again that's key to what comes after perhaps? Sherlock might be going mad.


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 7, 2012)

madzone said:


> Well, again that's key to what comes after perhaps? Sherlock might be going mad.


She was the only woman who ever got to him emotionally, he had a fantasy about saving her.


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> She was the only woman who ever got to him emotionally, he had a fantasy about saving her.


You know that for a fact do you?


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 7, 2012)

madzone said:


> You know that for a fact do you?


It's my interpretation. What else is it gonna be?


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> It's my interpretation. What else is it gonna be?


You stated it as if it was fact. Personally I can't see the writers making it a fatasy without a reason. I think they'd either have made it clearer that is was a fantasy or it's a fantasy for a reason. For example it might be that she's some sort of catalyst for a breakdown of some kind as he's never let anyone in before and it's broken some kind of defence in him.. Guess we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 7, 2012)

I stated it as an opinion, how could I do anything else?  You don't think I'm Steven Moffat do you?


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 7, 2012)

I'd guess most people will understand these aren't real people having real relationships. Which is just my opinion rather than a fact.


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I stated it as an opinion, how could I do anything else? You don't think I'm Steven Moffat do you?



Whatever. I actually do have better things to do than play the mouse to you and LC's flea-ridden cats


----------



## Blagsta (Jan 7, 2012)

madzone said:


> Whatever. I actually do have better things to do than play the mouse to you and LC's flea-ridden cats



whatever


----------



## Badgers (Jan 7, 2012)

Whatever


----------



## Termite Man (Jan 7, 2012)

whatever?


----------



## madzone (Jan 7, 2012)

What.

Ever.


----------



## Espresso (Jan 7, 2012)

madzone said:


> Did anyone notoce that when she looked at the booby trapped safe after it had gone off she frowned? It left me wondering if it wasn't her that had booby trapped it.



Who else could have booby trapped it apart from her, though? No one apart from our imperially minded Sherlock knew the combination.
And surely if there was anyone else who did booby trap it - like Moriarty or Mycroft or Gail's Canadian son off Coronation St - they'd have taken the phone while they were in there doing the booby-ing?


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2012)

Espresso said:


> Who else could have booby trapped it apart from her, though? No one apart from our imperially minded Sherlock knew the combination.
> And surely if there was anyone else who did booby trap it - like Moriarty or Mycroft or Gail's Canadian son off Coronation St - they'd have taken the phone while they were in there doing the booby-ing?


AUDREY'S Canadian son.


----------



## Espresso (Jan 7, 2012)

Santino said:


> AUDREY'S Canadian son.



Buggers. You're right. Pardon me.


----------



## lizzieloo (Jan 8, 2012)

Is this thread about this program I'm watching on the telly now?

It's a bit shit really isn't it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 8, 2012)

Think that rather suffered from following last week's episode. Plus I've never really rated Russell Tovey as an actor, and this did nothing to change my mind.


----------



## lizzieloo (Jan 8, 2012)

The thought process bit


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 8, 2012)

Not enough plot to last 90 minutes.


----------



## susie12 (Jan 8, 2012)

Oh I enjoyed it, but didn't see the first one, might watch it now in fact.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 8, 2012)

I thought the blue rabbit would be a red herring.


----------



## Espresso (Jan 8, 2012)

Certainly not as good as last week. I think I might be a bit in love with Dr Watson, so no doubt I'll give it a whirl again next week.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 8, 2012)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Not enough plot to last 90 minutes.


I don't think you can lay blame at the door of anyone currently living.

Fwiw, Gatiss is more my style than Moffat so it's not a surprise I enjoyed this more - this was less showy, less... queeny. A little bit by the numbers though.

I did wish SH had seen more than a flash of Moriarty during the struggle.


----------



## lizzieloo (Jan 8, 2012)

It's rubbish ENTIRELY cos of how it's been done.


----------



## madzone (Jan 8, 2012)

I guessed it was hallucinogenic gas as soon as I saw the fog in the hollow. Pissed mr madz _right_ off


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2012)

Didn't enjoy this weeks quite so much because it seemed a bit obv and George from Being Human played distressed posho throughout and with no other nuances.

I will ruminate further but I have to say that mentioning that this version of sherlock is a doctor who meant my mother was picking up on the parallels all the way through. Annoyingly. She even referenced bits from last week at one point which is pretty good given she was snoring through the last third.

I liked. It wasn't clever-clever. Will think on why it didn't zing me like the last one


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jan 8, 2012)

where I work was in Sherlocks mind palace.  my mum called me up to tell me too


----------



## killer b (Jan 8, 2012)

last week was great. this week was comparable to a slightly-better-than-average episode of taggart.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2012)

Opinion seems to be good but not as good as last week, amongst me pals.


----------



## Reno (Jan 8, 2012)

Just like with the last series the second episode was rather weak. Hopefully it perks up again for the last one.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 8, 2012)

lizzieloo said:


> Is this thread about this program I'm watching on the telly now?
> 
> It's a bit shit really isn't it.



No. It just wasn't to your taste.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2012)

That was great  Proper Sunday night telly


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jan 8, 2012)

the annoying part was that the password for the top secret CIA files didnt have any complexity rules enforced.


----------



## Libertad (Jan 8, 2012)

ivebeenhigh said:


> the annoying part was that the password for the top secret CIA files didnt have any complexity rules enforced.



That's how they sucked in Gary McKinnon.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 9, 2012)

I fell asleep midway through


----------



## ginger_syn (Jan 9, 2012)

I enjoyed it


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 9, 2012)

Espresso said:


> Certainly not as good as last week.


I thought it was much better than last week.

Things I still don't like, though, include the jerky zooms.   When the rationale is that they're supposed to be showing us Sherlock's Aspergers-like way of seeing the world, then I can see the point (even if I think it's patronising to the audience), but last night a lot of the time it was just stylistic.  Sherlock wasn't even in the scene and we were being treated to it; it's irritating.

I'm glad the on-screen text was kept to a minimum, though.  When Watson and Holmes were texting each other, it was fine.  But to explain Sherlock's thought-processes, it can be over-done.  It certainly was last week, when Moffat was telling us that Sherlock couldn't read Irene Adler.  Zooming in on the earrings and giving us question marks.  And it kept on doing it long after we'd got the point.  Again, patronising.  If that had been the Killing, there'd have been a glance and a facial expression, that would have been it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 9, 2012)

ivebeenhigh said:


> the annoying part was that the password for the top secret CIA files didnt have any complexity rules enforced.


Well quite! Even I've got a more complex password than that, and clues to it aren't littered around my office!


----------



## Metal Malcolm (Jan 9, 2012)

Gripes aside, it was nice to see Amelia Bullmore and Gordon Kennedy in things again


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 9, 2012)

I enjoyed it - perferred last week tbh because it was a bit more of a romp but then "Hound of the Baskervilles" isn't really a romp as such.

I enjoyed the nods to the original story - Stapletown, Mortimer, Barrymore and Grimpen - and also the changes that were made, though it would have been interesting to have seen what they did with disguising Holmes as in the original book. However that means that the character of Sherlock isn't seen for quite a bit.

As to it being a bit stretched for 90 minutes I didn't think so however the original book has a lot more strands to it which weren't explored so maybe that is why it felt stretched.

Also I wonder if the comment about "the escaped convict", which wasn't expolred and is one of the strands in the original book (the flashing lights on the moor being a good nod to this though) will tie in with Moriarity next week?

So for me 3.5 out of 5. Still a good programme though.


----------



## jakethesnake (Jan 9, 2012)

I thought it was funny that everyone assumed him and Watson were a couple.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 9, 2012)

QueenOfGoths said:


> ...it would have been interesting to have seen what they did with disguising Holmes as in the original book. However that means that the character of Sherlock isn't seen for quite a bit.


I knew it! When Sherlock said he wouldn't be coming I confidently exclaimed to my flatmate "oh yes, this is the one where he pretends not to go and sends Watson in his place, but really he is there in disguise", only for Sherlock to then say he was coming and spend the rest of the episode running round as Sherlock! 

A fool I looked, a fool!


----------



## Maggot (Jan 9, 2012)

I enjoyed it, but couldn't help thinking it was like an elaborate episode of Scooby Doo.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 9, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> I knew it! When Sherlock said he wouldn't be coming I confidently exclaimed to my flatmate "oh yes, this is the one where he pretends not to go and sends Watson in his place, but really he is there in disguise", only for Sherlock to then say he was coming and spend the rest of the episode running round as Sherlock!
> 
> A fool I looked, a fool!



In don't think they have done any disguises in this re-imagining (for want of a better word!)  and that is quite a Sherlock Holmes thing to do


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jan 9, 2012)

Maggot said:


> I enjoyed it, but couldn't help thinking it was like an elaborate episode of Scooby Doo.



Scooby Doo without the wit, charm or subtlety.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 9, 2012)

Maggot said:


> I enjoyed it, but couldn't help thinking it was like an elaborate episode of Scooby Doo.


  Very much so.


----------



## Reno (Jan 9, 2012)

Maggot said:


> I enjoyed it, but couldn't help thinking it was like an elaborate episode of Scooby Doo.



That's because the original Hound of the Baskervilles is the blueprint for all Scooby Doo's plot lines. It appears to have a supernatural plot till its revealed to have a more mundane explanation based in criminal activity.


----------



## Libertad (Jan 9, 2012)

jakethesnake said:


> I thought it was funny that everyone assumed him and Watson were a couple.



It's a running gag.


----------



## gosub (Jan 9, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Scooby Doo without the wit, charm or subtlety.


Scobby getting shot at the end by a tripping policeman. I'd watch that


----------



## T & P (Jan 9, 2012)

Well while it wasn't as great as the previous week's episode, it was still highly enjoyable and, let's face it, still better than most of the other crap passing as entertainment that gets broadcast on all channels.

However, I think this concept works a lot better when using minor/ not so well known stories. There cannot be many people in the country who haven't either read the The Hound of the Baskervilles or seen one of the many screen adaptations to date. Comparisons are inevitable, and there is not much mystery to the story.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 9, 2012)

The one thing that slightly annoys me is that the drug he wants is nicotine....he should be on proper drugs to be a proper Sherlock


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jan 9, 2012)

Maybe he would have got away with it if it wasn't for those pesky kids.


----------



## Maggot (Jan 9, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> The one thing that slightly annoys me is that the drug he wants is nicotine....he should be on proper drugs to be a proper Sherlock


The scene at the beginning looked like he was after something illegal, before cigarettes were mentioned.


----------



## Espresso (Jan 9, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> The one thing that slightly annoys me is that the drug he wants is nicotine....he should be on proper drugs to be a proper Sherlock



Maybe it can be explained by it being part of the updating schtick.
Old Watson chronicled the cases and had them published in books, this Watson blogs. Old Watson was a ex-soldier returned from fighting in Afghanistan, but so is this Watson. Old Holmes wrote a treatise on all the types of tobacco ash, this Holmes has it on a website. Old Holmes used opium and cocaine, which were legal in his day and this Holmes smokes fags, which are legal in his.
Or maybe not. Maybe it's a more of a business decision so as the Beeb can sell it as far and wide as possible.


----------



## Reno (Jan 9, 2012)

I think if he were a coke head now then that would mean something quite different from what it did then, when coke was even prescribed for medicinal reasons. It wasn't a party drug then and Sherlock isn't a party guy.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 9, 2012)

It is a bit slower. Not bad, just not up to the first. I want Holmes to be darker, not just over clever and oddball, but it still works. 

I wanted it to be better but (as said before) this is fucking good telly compared to almost everything else we are putting out.


----------



## Voley (Jan 9, 2012)

Maggot said:


> The scene at the beginning looked like he was after something illegal, before cigarettes were mentioned.


In the first one I thought he was going to be getting his famous 7% solution out only to show him with nicorette patches. nice touch. I've really enjoyed all of these so far.


----------



## kittyP (Jan 9, 2012)

Fookin lovin it!!

I did think at the end of the last one that they were shouting "Benton! Benton!"


----------



## spartacus mills (Jan 9, 2012)

gosub said:


> Scooby getting shot at the end by a tripping policeman. I'd watch that



Scrappy yes but not dear old Scoobs...


----------



## Idaho (Jan 9, 2012)

New Sherlock: Great production, good script, good cast, fucking stupid stories.

Why do we always bottle out of doing something truly great in favour of an "hilarious send up"?


----------



## T & P (Jan 9, 2012)

Idaho said:


> New Sherlock: Great production, good script, good cast, fucking stupid stories.
> 
> Why do we always bottle out of doing something truly great in favour of an "hilarious send up"?



Well it is a present-day retake on the books, so inevitably it is going to involve modern stuff and be in a present-day setting.

Last night's episode's wasn't the best reworking of the original story ever done, but I thought the first episode used the original short story in question superbly and had a near perfect mix of nods to the original work and new elements.


----------



## Reno (Jan 10, 2012)

I can't really blame anybody who only saw last nights episode to think that this is a rubbish show. It was by far the worst episode of the series and the problem is that when this show is bad, then you are hanging in there for 1.5 hours. When this show is great it's fantastic, when it's bad then it's a real drag.


----------



## veracity (Jan 10, 2012)

It did lose my attention too, wasn't as good as last week. Think I'm developing a thing for Benedict Cumberbatch though


----------



## Rock Bottom (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm suprised that noone picked up on the Asperger's Syndrome reference - especially considering all the in-depth discussion on urban regarding this condition. Other than Watson's explicit reference, this episode was the first to hint that Sherlock is not in total control over his character failings. Rather than wilfully isolating himself from the outside world out of arrogance, Sherlock was shown to be vulnerable, and unable to initiate or maintain relationships.

By writing in a mental condition not fully understood or articulated until fairly recently, it is consistant with the other devices used to update Sherlock for modern times. I wonder if the same retelling could be applied to other detectives, such as Columbo.


----------



## Reno (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock Bottom said:


> I'm suprised that noone picked up on the Asperger's Syndrome reference - especially considering all the in-depth discussion on urban regarding this condition. Other than Watson's explicit reference, this episode was the first to hint that Sherlock is not in total control over his character failings. Rather than wilfully isolating himself from the outside world out of arrogance, Sherlock was shown to be vulnerable, and unable to initiate or maintain relationships.
> 
> By writing in a mental condition not fully understood or articulated until fairly recently, it is consistant with the other devices used to update Sherlock for modern times. I wonder if the same retelling could be applied to other detectives, such as Columbo.



The possibility that he is autistic has been mentioned quite a bit in the media and in reviews but as it's never been confirmed, its only speculation.

Columbo is a modern detective and the series was still being made eight years ago. Just giving him an iPhone is not going to update the concept as radically as dragging Sherlock Holmes into the 21st century, is it ?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock Bottom said:


> I'm suprised that noone picked up on the Asperger's Syndrome reference


It's been mention in this thread.  Post 196 for one.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 10, 2012)

Sherlock Holmes stories should be logically water-tight. That's the driving rationale of the whole thing. There were too many things that either made no sense or were complete nonsense. Deus Ex was ever present in this. It's too much like Spooks.

The password thing as someone mentioned was silly as password refreshes would mean that he would at least be up to Magg1e1979 or some such and therefore be impossible to guess. Also, a top security base, and they just ask for the ID of one person in the car? Not a chance. The daughter having sent an email about the lost rabbit was also silly.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2012)

Idaho said:


> The daughter having sent an email about the lost rabbit was also silly.


The point is he's getting shit like that every day. 'I've lost my slippers', 'My grandad's been murdered', 'Our comics are coming true' etc etc, but he remembers them all and can recall relevant information if it turns out to be useful.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 10, 2012)

Idaho said:


> Also, a top security base, and they just ask for the ID of one person in the car? Not a chance.


That reminds me of something else that bothered me: as they went through all the doors, the soldier and Sherlock swiped in, but Watson didn't. Surely either just one person needs to swipe (in order to open the door) or everyone needs to swipe (as a security measure)?

Maybe Mycroft's card entitles you to a +1


----------



## Rock Bottom (Jan 10, 2012)

Reno said:


> The possibility that he is autistic has been mentioned quite a bit in the media and in reviews but as it's never been confirmed, its only speculation.


But in this particular episode, Watson more or less confirmed that he had Aspergers when he was speaking to DI Lestrade. It is this explicit reference, rather than the previous speculation that I found interesting.



Reno said:


> Columbo is a modern detective and the series was still being made eight years ago. Just giving him an iPhone is not going to update the concept as radically as dragging Sherlock Holmes into the 21st century, is it ?



What I suppose I meant is - since Aspergers syndrome has only been used to explain mental conditions since the 1990's, which other detectives could it retrospectively apply to? Columbo would be an obvious candidate.

@Danny La Rouge - sorry, I have just read your post (#196). I disagree that the portrayal of Sherlock's Aspergers is patronizing the audience. I think it has been quite subtly introduced.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2012)

No way does Columbo have Asperger's. He has well-developed social skills and no problem understanding the motivations of others.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock Bottom said:


> @Danny La Rouge - sorry, I have just read your post (#196). I disagree that the portrayal of Sherlock's Aspergers is patronizing the audience. I think it has been quite subtly introduced.


It isn't the suggestion that it's Asperger's _per se_ that's patronisingly portrayed, but the way that Sherlock's thought processes are flagged up with *Big Red Markers *that's patronising.


----------



## Reno (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock Bottom said:


> But in this particular episode, Watson more or less confirmed that he had Aspergers when he was speaking to DI Lestrade. It is this explicit reference, rather than the previous speculation that I found interesting.
> 
> What I suppose I meant is - since Aspergers syndrome has only been used to explain mental conditions since the 1990's, which other detectives could it retrospectively apply to? Columbo would be an obvious candidate.
> 
> @Danny La Rouge - sorry, I have just read your post (#196). I disagree that the portrayal of Sherlock's Aspergers is patronizing the audience. I think it has been quite subtly introduced.



Columbo only pretended to be chaotic and slow on the uptake to catch out his supects.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 10, 2012)

I would rather have Sherlock on my case than Columbo


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 10, 2012)

Columbo also has a healthy relationship with his oft mentioned wife, who flies the federation star ship voyager while he drives his crappy motor round to posh peoples houses and smokes a smelly cigar in thier living room while asking annoying questions


----------



## T & P (Jan 10, 2012)

However Columbo looks like he could have a heart attack and die at any time, and could as likely as not drop dead in the middle of the investigation.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2012)

At least he's not a smackhead.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 10, 2012)

As my interest wanes a little the most interesting aspect becomes [that] the person who wrote the weakest of the three - for S1 - has been given the finale for S2. It's almost become the best reason for sticking with it... _such_ tension...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 10, 2012)

in columbo sometimes after he has asked some particularly annoying questions, and just left, the camera will linger on the murderers face as the affable mask drops and their expression hardens. Sherlock should adopt that camera style instead of onscreen text.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 10, 2012)

Is Sherlock looking for a murderer or to solve a mystery?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 10, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Is Sherlock looking for a murderer or to solve a mystery?


He's a lot like House in that way.

And some others.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2012)

All the others are like Holmes.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 10, 2012)

Thing about writing detectives is they all do the same fucking thing, pretty much your only angle is in their traits and quirky habits. Maybe give them a sidekick.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2012)

That's why Columbo was so brilliant - it was a genuine twist on the basic detective format. Often most of an episode takes the viewpoint of the murderer, and they act as the sidekick with Columbo explaining things to them. There's extra tension because he's often explaining things to them which they already know, but can't reveal.

I often think that Jeeves stories are, structurally, another version of the brilliant detective genre.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2012)

Although I have on occasion been entertained by it, House is in one important respect the worst detective thing ever, because the ending is always 'And the solution is... some medical thing you've never heard of. Is it real or made up? Who cares? You wouldn't know the difference.'

The solution could literally just be magic and it would have the same effect.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't like his american accent coming from out of a mouth that should be saying daft things in a soothing RP. For that reason house is shit.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 10, 2012)

A house is not a home


----------



## Helen Back (Jan 10, 2012)

Balbi said:


> A house is not a home


House is not a Holmes.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 10, 2012)

See, I was trying for subtlety there. Philistines!


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 10, 2012)

Racist!


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock Bottom said:


> But in this particular episode, Watson more or less confirmed that he had Aspergers when he was speaking to DI Lestrade. It is this explicit reference, rather than the previous speculation that I found interesting.


He didn't confirm anything.  It was a question, not a statement: "Asperger's?"

Watson doesn't know if he has it any more than we do at this point.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

9.00pm kick orf for this tonight - then an adaption of Birdsong begins next Sunday. God, I got sucked into that yarn.

It's all go...


----------



## Reno (Jan 15, 2012)

Please let this one be good after last weeks snoozefest.


----------



## Helen Back (Jan 15, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> then an adaption of Birdsong begins next Sunday.



Then a what?


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

Yep. Seb Faulkes, him of the strawberry blonde 'loose perm' - must look to see if he did the adaption. It's been trailed JUST A BIT.

You know.... 'GREAT BRITISH DRAMA'.

... ON THE BBC.


----------



## Helen Back (Jan 15, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Yep. Seb Faulkes, him of the strawberry blonde 'loose perm' - must look to see if he did the adaption. It's been trailed JUST A BIT.
> 
> You know.... 'GREAT BRITISH DRAMA'.
> 
> ... ON THE BBC.


What's an "adaption"?


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

Oh joy. It's something you may do on a Sunday afternoon when you're doing three things at once - not including eating, none of them seriously.

Excuse me for being personal, but have you something inflexible  stuck up your anus?


----------



## Boycey (Jan 15, 2012)

Helen Back said:


> House is not a Holmes.



true but hugh laurie is still quite good.


----------



## Helen Back (Jan 15, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Oh joy. It's something you may do on a Sunday afternoon when you're doing three things at once - not including eating, none of them seriously.
> 
> Excuse me for being personal, but have you something inflexible stuck up your anus?


Don't be silly, I thought it was something I hadn't heard of before like a cross between an adaptation an an adoption of ideas from another medium.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

Sounds good to me. Lets go with that.


----------



## T & P (Jan 15, 2012)

Is this last episode by Motaff or the other guy?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 15, 2012)

T & P said:


> Is this last episode by Motaff or the other guy?



It's by the other other guy.


----------



## madzone (Jan 15, 2012)

Moriarty's got much better hasn't he?


----------



## Libertad (Jan 15, 2012)

Diamond geezer.


----------



## madzone (Jan 15, 2012)

I don't get it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2012)

Opening scene.
"Three months earlier"
3 break ins.
Watson: "Six weeks ago he broke into..."
"Two months later"

Someone fucked up their chronology.


----------



## Dooby (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm loving Moriarty though.


----------



## Libertad (Jan 15, 2012)

Well...


----------



## Balbi (Jan 15, 2012)

Moriarty delivered


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 15, 2012)

Fookin 'ell


----------



## madzone (Jan 15, 2012)

Pffft.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 15, 2012)

so what was the deal with molly?  tbh i'm looking forward to how they're gonna explain this one


----------



## susie12 (Jan 15, 2012)

What was going on with his accent?


----------



## spirals (Jan 15, 2012)

I enjoyed that and it lured mr spirals away from his computer so it must have been good


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 15, 2012)

That was excellent.  Best hour and a half of TV in a long while.  I want to know when we get to see the next series. I want to know now goddamnit!


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 15, 2012)

My guess is he calculated the safest way to fall, his brother creates a new electronic identity for him.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2012)

Slightly disappointed with that end reveal, but overall a very good episode. John's line of sight, and the angle, will be important to the 'trick', as well as Molly's assistance, obviously.

One assumes Moriarty's fate was genuine, bit of a shame but where I thought it was headed, given his Bee Gees speech.

But now it's all over again.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 15, 2012)

i thought that was definitely better than last week's


----------



## big eejit (Jan 15, 2012)

Wow that was brilliant drama.


----------



## Libertad (Jan 15, 2012)

Top bit of telly that.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 15, 2012)

does moriarty come back in the books?


----------



## la ressistance (Jan 15, 2012)

how the fuck are they gonna explain that then? eh? eh? eh?


----------



## Balbi (Jan 15, 2012)

Molly does autopsies etc


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 15, 2012)

uk benzo said:


> My guess is he calculated the safest way to fall, his brother creates a new electronic identity for him.



john checks his pulse - he's pretty obviously dead.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jan 15, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> does moriarty come back in the books?


 
Think he died at the Reichenbach Falls, IIRC.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 15, 2012)

I quite liked that.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 15, 2012)

You can't fall from that height onto paving slabs and not have serious injury.



Lord Camomile said:


> Slightly disappointed with that end reveal


We knew he didn't die.


----------



## Libertad (Jan 15, 2012)

We presume Moriarty's dead but is he?


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 15, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> john checks his pulse - he's pretty obviously dead.



John checked his pulse whilst in a delirium  because a cyclist deliberately knocked him over- was this cyclist one of Sherlock's homeless network.


----------



## moonsi til (Jan 15, 2012)

I came to this thread for answers..


----------



## Libertad (Jan 15, 2012)

uk benzo said:


> My guess is he calculated the safest way to fall, his brother creates a new electronic identity for him.



The drop zone was conveniently behind that parked truck.  I'm going to have to watch this again. Obv.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> You can't fall from that height onto paving slabs and not have serious injury.
> 
> We knew he didn't die.


I know, and I honestly don't know what method of reveal I would have accepted, but that just seemed a bit by the numbers.


----------



## colacubes (Jan 15, 2012)

Late to the party with this but watched the first 2 last night and tonight's one, errr tonight   Best bit of telly I've seen for a long time 

I don't suppose anyone has the first series they want to lend me?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 15, 2012)

Guess: Sherlock horsed Moriarty's body off the roof. Molly was on the bike and distracted John (who was told to stand at a certain angle) . Ermmm, there was some kind of quick swap on the pavement? Oh god, I don't know.

That was dead good anyway.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2012)

uk benzo said:


> John checked his pulse whilst in a delirium because a cyclist deliberately knocked him over- was this cyclist one of Sherlock's homeless network.


Oh yes, that was surely no accident. I initially suspected it was Sherlock, but I don't see how he could makethe change so quickly.

Sherlock engineered John's position quite precisely, must be important.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

The Final Problem:



> "The Final Problem" was intended to be exactly what its name says. Conan Doyle meant to stop writing about his famous detective after this short story; he felt the Sherlock Holmes stories were distracting him from more serious literary efforts and that "killing" Holmes off was the only way of getting his career back on track. "I must save my mind for better things," he wrote to his mother at the time, "even if it means I must bury my pocketbook with him."
> 
> Conan Doyle sought to sweeten the pill by letting Holmes go in a blaze of glory, having rid the world of a criminal so powerful and dangerous that any further task would be trivial in comparison. (Holmes says as much in the story.)


etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Problem#Themes_and_circumstances_of_writing


----------



## Santino (Jan 15, 2012)

It's a yes from me.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 15, 2012)

nipsla said:


> Late to the party with this but watched the first 2 last night and tonight's one, errr tonight  Best bit of telly I've seen for a long time
> 
> I don't suppose anyone has the first series they want to lend me?



Torrent it. Or stream it, icefilms.info are good.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 15, 2012)

was very good , except the end ,  was pretty obv he wasnt going to die , the bbc wouldnt kill off a cash cow like that....

I reckon just like the cliff hanger at the end of the last series it will be explaianed fairly simply


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 15, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Torrent it. Or stream it, icefilms.info are good.



Fixed 

icefilms is brilliant ( until its shut down by the yanks )


----------



## colacubes (Jan 15, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Torrent it. Or stream it, icefilm.info are good.



I'm lazy with torrents  Will have a nose!


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> was very good , except the end , was pretty obv he wasnt going to die , the bbc wouldnt kill off a cash cow like that....
> 
> I reckon just like the cliff hanger at the end of the last series it will be explaianed fairly simply


It's worth remembering this is not original drama - it is all based on books by some dead Scottish bloke.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 15, 2012)

From Mark Gatiss on Twitter: "Gotcha! And of course there'll be a third series! It was commissioned at the same time as series two!!"

So they've got the scheduling problems sorted I guess. Yay!

And Moffat said the same thing mere seconds later.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2012)

Incidentally, the second episode was the weakest again...


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 15, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> It's worth remembering this is not original drama - it is all based on books by some dead Scottish bloke.


Exactly. It's fairly well known that Sherlock Holmes reappears alive after the Reichenbach Falls incident, which is what this is based on.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

Yep, the finale happened on Barts rooftop rather than the Falls. All the elements were there.


----------



## joustmaster (Jan 15, 2012)

something to do with a disguise or person who looks like holmes. the kids obviously had seen some one look like him when they were abducted


----------



## Santino (Jan 15, 2012)

Yes, no point in pretending he's dead.


----------



## susie12 (Jan 15, 2012)

It was brilliant though, the best of the three I thought. Really enjoyed and will watch again.  Clever sods!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2012)

One thing: if Sherlock had set himself up to take the fall, why the final chat with Moriarty, which led to M's death? Unless Sherlock was goading M to do it, but in which case why did he react with shock?


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 15, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> something to do with a disguise or person who looks like holmes. the kids obviously had seen some one look like him when they were abducted


 
I think you may be onto something...


----------



## D'wards (Jan 15, 2012)

Apparantly Conan Doyle did kill off Sherlock in this episode, (Reichenbach Falls) but had to bring him back due to public outcry.

Is this true?


----------



## Espresso (Jan 15, 2012)

I have loved this teeny weeny seies.
Martin Freeman should know that in the unlikely event that I ever actually come face to face with him in real life, he is going to be propositioned in a rather large and shameless manner.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

D'wards said:


> Apparantly Conan Doyle did kill off Sherlock in this episode, (Reichenbach Falls) but had to bring him back due to public outcry.
> 
> Is this true?


I linked to it all of 10 posts ago.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

Espresso said:


> I have loved this teeny weeny seies.
> Martin Freeman should know that in the unlikely event that I ever actually come face to face with him in real life, he is going to be propositioned in a rather large and shameless manner.


Wear flats, and he doesn't like people stooping to talk to him.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 15, 2012)

uk benzo said:


> I think you may be onto something...


Maybe Moriarty in disguise - may have been his body that was thrown of the roof? Molly must have helped complete the plan though


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 15, 2012)

mr b reckons the writers are just scouring twitter now looking for the best get-out-of-jail-free theory for the next series


----------



## Espresso (Jan 15, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Wear flats, and he doesn't like people stooping to talk to him.



Buggerz. For I am rather Amazonian.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

LOL. A/S/L?


----------



## Espresso (Jan 15, 2012)

D'wards said:


> Maybe Moriarty in disguise - may have been his body that was thrown of the roof? Molly must have helped complete the plan though



Sherlock did say he needed Molly's help, after all. And we didn't hear what help he needed from her. And she's the police's preferred scientific person. And the body was conveniently splattered all over the pavement outside the hospital where her lab is.
Maybe unrequited love is enough to risk getting struck off from the Associated Pathologist/Analytical Chemist/General Scientific Cleverclogs Union.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 15, 2012)

No answers until 2013 - bahhh


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 15, 2012)

I don't see how Sherlock could have switched bodies before the fall, John was watching him the whole time, wasn't he?

The cyclist both disoriented John, but also delayed his approach. But then the were others who looked like they got there immediately. Oh ffs...


----------



## Espresso (Jan 15, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> LOL. A/S/L?



Hush you. I'm spoken for. Apart from for Titchy Freeman.


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 15, 2012)

Maybe all the medics that rushed out were all in on it thanks to Molly's help, thus helping to preserve the fake suicide act?


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2012)

I enjoyed that very much.

Still not as good as Jeremy Brett though. He was The Don of all Sherlocks.


----------



## Cid (Jan 15, 2012)

Minor irritation - obviously the hit from the cyclist and general confusion meant Watson didn't get a clear look, but really in the modern world, with post-mortems etc the death faking thing is a little unrealistic. I mean that's why the Reichenbach Falls worked in the originals; the plunge into the anonymity of a waterfall (incidentally, however much he protested it, he left a window open for Holmes' survival). Perhaps they'll explain it.



DotCommunist said:


> Didn't enjoy this weeks quite so much because it seemed a bit obv and George from Being Human played distressed posho throughout and with no other nuances.
> 
> I will ruminate further but I have to say that mentioning that this version of sherlock is a doctor who meant my mother was picking up on the parallels all the way through. Annoyingly. She even referenced bits from last week at one point which is pretty good given she was snoring through the last third.
> 
> I liked. It wasn't clever-clever. Will think on why it didn't zing me like the last one



Been thinking that all along; actually they'd both work - doctor and companion. Doubt they'll do it now, but Cumberbatch would shit all over your mate.


----------



## D'wards (Jan 15, 2012)

Molly might have performed autopsy, identified the body etc


----------



## telbert (Jan 15, 2012)

If you cant wait for the next series and want to know what happened have a read of "The Adventure of The Empty House".


----------



## TruXta (Jan 15, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> Fixed
> 
> icefilms is brilliant ( until its shut down by the yanks )



Whoops! Fixed linky.


----------



## Cid (Jan 15, 2012)

True, certainly in Watson's character not to want a last look, or to be easily swayed away from it.


----------



## joustmaster (Jan 15, 2012)

telbert said:


> If you cant wait for the next series and want to know what happened have a read of "The Adventure of The Empty House".


it was on iplayer recently. might be still there.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 15, 2012)

That Moriarty's a bit hard core though innit.

That's what happens when you overdid the disco biscuits in the 90s.


----------



## Cid (Jan 15, 2012)

telbert said:


> If you cant wait for the next series and want to know what happened have a read of "The Adventure of The Empty House".



Yeah, well if we fit it into that Holmes chucked Moriarty over and Molly and Mycroft did the cover-up... Be the simplest way I suppose.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 15, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> I linked to it all of 10 posts ago.


But you did not say (quote) that Holmes was 'brought back'. You only referred to his death as being confirmed by Doyle. Doyle brought Holmes back for his (certainly in film/tv portrayal) most retold case - the hound.

This...most excellent of episodes (a case can be made for the pink one but I'm in awe of this one) had much more humour, lovely (paranoiac) complexity, clues for normal people, jaw-dropping surprise, character depth/disclosure and _appeared_ to show a human side to Sherlock that I've no doubt should be _mostly_ dispelled in the next series.


----------



## joustmaster (Jan 15, 2012)

Cid said:


> Yeah, well if we fit it into that Holmes chucked Moriarty over and Molly and Mycroft did the cover-up... Be the simplest way I suppose.


holmes found the holmes mask that moriarty used when abducting the kids, stuck it on his corpse and chucked him off the building, got some guy to mash up watson with a bike and molly to fake the autopsy?


----------



## TruXta (Jan 15, 2012)

Aliens. *taps cock


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 15, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> But you did not say (quote) that Holmes was 'brought back'.


I did.



> You only referred to his death as being confirmed by Doyle. Doyle brought Holmes back for his (certainly in film/tv portrayal) most retold case - the hound.


Nope. Hound was set before the Falls incident.


----------



## TruXta (Jan 15, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_the_Empty_House is where ACD brought Sherlock back post-Falls.


----------



## telbert (Jan 15, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> holmes found the holmes mask that moriarty used when abducting the kids, stuck it on his corpse and chucked him off the building, got some guy to mash up watson with a bike and molly to fake the autopsy?


 
 Ta-daa


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 15, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I did.
> 
> Nope. Hound was set before the Falls incident.





> Conan Doyle sought to sweeten the pill by letting Holmes go in a blaze of glory, having rid the world of a criminal so powerful and dangerous that any further task would be trivial in comparison. (Holmes says as much in the story.)
> But as is equally well known this device failed in its purpose and pressure from fans eventually persuaded Doyle to bring Holmes back, writing _The Hound of the Baskervilles_ and returning him in "The Adventure of the Empty House".


Same wiki


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 15, 2012)

loved it. except moriarty being the cabbie, which was too bleeding obvious.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 15, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> Same wiki





> and returning him in "The Adventure of the Empty House".




Hound was set before the Falls incident, like I said.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 15, 2012)

Written after it.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 15, 2012)

> Conan Doyle had not written about Sherlock Holmes in eight years, having killed off the character in the 1893 story "The Final Problem". Although _The Hound of the Baskervilles_ is set before the latter events, two years later Conan Doyle would bring Holmes back for good, explaining in "The Adventure of the Empty House" that Holmes had faked his own death.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hound_of_the_Baskervilles


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 15, 2012)

DexterTCN said:


> Written after it.


But it was set before, which is what I keep saying.


----------



## Cid (Jan 15, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Hound was set before the Falls incident, like I said.



Indeed, Hound is part of the return thing - set before the Falls but released almost 10 years later - presumably anticipating the empty house.


----------



## Santino (Jan 16, 2012)

But one of you has a bigger penis, that much is clear.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jan 16, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> But it was set before, which is what I keep saying.


http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/sherlock-series-2.286578/page-10#post-10835943
hmm...nah, I didn't see before but there you were only talking about it being the 'end'.  If you'd made previous posts making opposite points I missed them...and I wasn't searching in  Holmesian way either


----------



## Stigmata (Jan 16, 2012)

I was just thinking how this series was a bit rubbish, but the last episode saved it.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 16, 2012)

Stigmata said:


> I was just thinking how this series was a bit rubbish, but the last episode saved it.



Good news. We are watching this tonight. Thought the second episode was a little weaker (I still liked it) so am hoping for a good end to this series.


----------



## vauxhallmum (Jan 16, 2012)

I love Moriarty. That has to be the campest performance since Johnny Depp in Pirates . And what was that about him and Molly having a thing together, it was sort of skated over so maybe significant later?


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 16, 2012)

i thought moriarty managed to bring in enough menace to balance the campery this time. last series he was rubbish and a real distraction, this one he made more sense


----------



## Balbi (Jan 16, 2012)

vauxhallmum said:


> I love Moriarty. That has to be the campest performance since Johnny Depp in Pirates . And what was that about him and Molly having a thing together, it was sort of skated over so maybe significant later?



First series, episode 3


----------



## vauxhallmum (Jan 16, 2012)

Missed that one. That'll teach me for trying to be clever


----------



## Maggot (Jan 16, 2012)

Really enjoyed that. God bless the BBC!



TheHoodedClaw said:


> Guess: Sherlock horsed Moriarty's body off the roof.





D'wards said:


> Maybe Moriarty in disguise - may have been his body that was thrown of the roof?


But, we clearly saw Sherlock falling through the air.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 16, 2012)

I wanted to go back and check, but I thought it was pretty clearly him too. And wasn't he flailing his arms, more so than the effects of wind on a dead body?

e2a: but was it Sherlock's body on the ground? I did actually get up and turn my head upside down to try and look at his face on the ground, but it was inconclusive


----------



## D'wards (Jan 16, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> e2a: but was it Sherlock's body on the ground? I did actually get up and turn my head upside down to try and look at his face on the ground, but it was inconclusive



I was pretty sure it was, its the eyes, you see, distinctive eyes.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 16, 2012)

What I suspect happened is that Sherlock Holmes called in a favour or several from Molly, genuinely fell, but survived impact (with multiple fractures) by falling in a way which slowed his descent (hence the way he moved his arms and legs, and the way he stayed more or less horizontal) and then shielded his head a bit on impact.  Not enough to avoid injury, but enough to avoid instantly fatal injury.  That would echo the way which the fall in the Reichenbach Falls story was survived.

The people who carted him off could have been contacts of Molly (who could easily have found the corpse of a white unclaimed male to go in the grave, given where she works), and they could have taken him off to a hospital, where, being alone and barely conscious, he'd be treated as an anonymous patient.

Watson could have been knocked down as a way to prevent him being able to rush over, checking the pulse points etc and realising that Sherlock Holmes wasn't dead at that point.


----------



## wayward bob (Jan 16, 2012)

the important thing though was that the sniper saw him fall/"die" wasn't it? doesn't matter if john thinks he's dead or not


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 16, 2012)

Very early on my flatmate suggested that Sherlock would fake his death to reset his anonymity, in the face of all the fame and notoriety, so perhaps that entered into his motivations too.


----------



## IC3D (Jan 16, 2012)

Seeing as Holmes survives the reichenbach falls incident I conclude fairly certainly he does in this adaptation and Moriarty is a deadun


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 16, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Seeing as Holmes survives the reichenbach falls incident I conclude fairly certainly he does in this adaptation and Moriarty is a deadun


Seeing as we saw him alive in the last shot of the episode, I conclude fairly certainly he does too.


----------



## joustmaster (Jan 16, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Very early on my flatmate suggested that Sherlock would fake his death to reset his anonymity, in the face of all the fame and notoriety, so perhaps that entered into his motivations too.


alm ost like he had read the books?


----------



## IC3D (Jan 16, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Seeing as we saw him alive in the last shot of the episode, I conclude fairly certainly he does too.


thought someone was questioning it


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 16, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> alm ost like he had read the books?


Nope, he hasn't read them (and I've only read a few of the short stories, my knowledge of the rest is very patchy). Also, these adaptations have veered somewhat from the books in various aspects, so there's no guarantee of what has and what hasn't been kept.


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## Idaho (Jan 16, 2012)

Can't believe I'm the only dissenting voice.

It's Spooks-standard nonsense. Really dissapointing - other than the nod to the Holmes-is-Moriaty theory. Most of it didn't make any sense.


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## Santino (Jan 16, 2012)

I reckon it was the Tesselecta that fell off the building. Either that or Sherlock was a ganger.


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## scooter (Jan 16, 2012)

In the books the only person who knows Sherlock is still alive (apart from Mycroft who Sherlock contacts) is one of Moriarty's lieutenants who watches him fall and sees that he didn't die.


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## Stigmata (Jan 16, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Nope, he hasn't read them (and I've only read a few of the short stories, my knowledge of the rest is very patchy). Also, these adaptations have veered somewhat from the books in various aspects, so there's no guarantee of what has and what hasn't been kept.



People keep mentioning what happens in the books, which surprises me. The key characters are similar and the titles are all puns on old Holmes stories, but beyond that they're completely different, albeit with the odd wink to the audience now and then.


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## Greebo (Jan 16, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> the important thing though was that the sniper saw him fall/"die" wasn't it? doesn't matter if john thinks he's dead or not


In the short term it's important that the sniper saw him fall.

However, to stop the attention from the media, the police etc, it'd help if the closest friend (Watson) genuinely believed that Holmes was dead, and told anyone he knew that he'd seen Holmes fall to his death. The same goes for needing to fool Mycroft, at least for a while.


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## Maggot (Jan 16, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Seeing as Holmes survives the reichenbach falls incident I conclude fairly certainly he does in this adaptation


No shit!


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## London_Calling (Jan 16, 2012)

Maggot said:


> But, we clearly saw Sherlock falling through the air.


You certainly see the face and the clothes, but perhaps in the same way the kidnapped girl did.


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## IC3D (Jan 16, 2012)

Maggot said:


> No shit!


elementary


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 16, 2012)

All this "how did he do it" malarkey has distracted me from what I thought was really good about the episode. I thought the whole manipulation of the press, and by extension the public, served as a very good example of how such a thing could be done, and was a nice comment on the state of journalism and the public's consumption of it, better than many attempts to deal with that subject directly.

Secondly, the idea that people believed it because it was more appealing than the truth, namely that Sherlock was better than them. As Sherlock himself said in some fashion, they wanted to believe it because it made them feel better about themselves. Sadly, I think this is something that is very often evident in day to day life.

Oh, and also, did anyone understand just what was being insinuated between Sherlock and Moriarty during the whole "I may be on the side of the angels, but I'm not one of them" confrontation? I totally failed to understand what Sherlock was saying he'd do


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## London_Calling (Jan 16, 2012)

Obv. a ref to Robbie Williams.

Well, the tabloid thing was indirect to a point: "Sherlock, you're becoming a CELEBRITY". *Puts down The Sun* < hello, I said HELLO!!1!


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## Ozric (Jan 16, 2012)

Watson being knocked over was just enough time for the van loaded with nice soft rubbish bags to move away......


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## teuchter (Jan 16, 2012)

http://cornishthought.blogspot.com/2012/01/how-sherlock-faked-his-death.html


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## Lord Camomile (Jan 16, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> Well, the tabloid thing was indirect to a point: "Sherlock, you're becoming a CELEBRITY". *Puts down The Sun* < hello, I said HELLO!!1!


Well no, it wasn't a subtle allegory like... well, some subtle allegory that someone smarter and more well read than me could reference, but it also wasn't as blatant and clumsy as other efforts. The fact that it was the Moriarty had to do little more than plant the idea, rather than just photoshop some incriminating photos or whatever, I think it was pretty well handled.


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## teuchter (Jan 16, 2012)

what I don't quite get:

I realise that in order to get the press/public to buy into the sherlock-is-a-fake thing, not every single little detail has to be ok - but, if moriarty was being acted by the children's TV actor chappie, would he really have been able to appear in court under a false identity? And would there not be some pretty serious consequences for the actor if he did?


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 16, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Very early on my flatmate suggested that Sherlock would *fake his death to reset his anonymity, in the face of all the fame and notoriety*, so perhaps that entered into his motivations too.



You mean like Doctor Who just did?


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## Helen Back (Jan 16, 2012)

The kidnapper didn't need to wear a lifelike mask that looked real to make the little girl scream when she saw Sherlock, just a photo of his face worn as a mask would have traumatised her with his image.

And that suicide had "setup" written all over it. Look at the way someone pulls Watson away when he tries to take Sherlock's pulse.


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## Maggot (Jan 17, 2012)

teuchter said:


> what I don't quite get:
> 
> I realise that in order to get the press/public to buy into the sherlock-is-a-fake thing, not every single little detail has to be ok - but, if moriarty was being acted by the children's TV actor chappie, would he really have been able to appear in court under a false identity? And would there not be some pretty serious consequences for the actor if he did?


He wasn't being acted, the actor thing was a set-up.


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## Badgers (Jan 17, 2012)

I enjoyed it a lot. You needed to ignore a few WTF? bits of the plot but did not affect my viewing.


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## London_Calling (Jan 17, 2012)

Yep, it is pretty much a superhero yarn, so by definition you've got to suspend some critical faculties as you would with, say, Bruce Wayne.


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## teuchter (Jan 17, 2012)

Maggot said:


> He wasn't being acted, the actor thing was a set-up.



Yeah I realise that - but the press / public fell for the set-up.


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## Santino (Jan 17, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Yeah I realise that - but the press / public fell for the set-up.


They fell for something they wanted to believe. That was made fairly explicit.


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## AverageJoe (Jan 17, 2012)

The press/public didn't need to know. Moriaty faked the cv about him being a kids entertainer. It was only the journalist and Watson who needed to be convinced


teuchter said:


> Yeah I realise that - but the press / public fell for the set-up.


s


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## Cid (Jan 17, 2012)

teuchter said:


> what I don't quite get:
> 
> I realise that in order to get the press/public to buy into the sherlock-is-a-fake thing, not every single little detail has to be ok - but, if moriarty was being acted by the children's TV actor chappie, would he really have been able to appear in court under a false identity? And would there not be some pretty serious consequences for the actor if he did?



The only discrepancy in that is that you'd assume he'd be recognised at some point, but it's entirely possible he wouldn't beyond a vague feeling of 'haven't I seen that bloke before'? Other than that he can say he was paid and that, as things got more serious, he began to fear for his life etc, Sherlock had shown him pictures of his family - that kind of thing. With the weight of public opinion behind him and the ability to manufacture evidence, witnesses etc and no Sherlock to get in his way I doubt there'd be any serious consequences.

The eyes on the fallen Sherlock is a good point, certainly match Cumberbatch's (although his seem to change colour... ), Moriarty's are brown so can't be him.


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## teuchter (Jan 17, 2012)

Surely when you go to court there is some kind of check on your identity and so on?


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## teuchter (Jan 17, 2012)

I've had another thought.

Everyone is assuming there was trickery with the fallen body, but no-one is considering that the "Sherlock" in the closing scene in the graveyard might not be the real Sherlock.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 17, 2012)

Just caught up with these - I think cumberbatch is great as holmes but freeman can't act/emote to save his life and the script is pretty awful. I don't think it works as a modernisation. All the flashiness is just distracting/annoying.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 17, 2012)

Idaho said:


> Can't believe I'm the only dissenting voice.
> 
> It's Spooks-standard nonsense. Really dissapointing - other than the nod to the Holmes-is-Moriaty theory. Most of it didn't make any sense.


I'm with you pal!


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## danny la rouge (Jan 17, 2012)

Idaho said:


> Can't believe I'm the only dissenting voice.


You're not.


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## El Sueno (Jan 17, 2012)

If Holmes' legacy was that of a fraud then surely all the criminals he'd had a hand in convicting would subsequently be released, mistrials called etc. Is that something he would have been comfortable with when he conceived his disappearing act? Or does Mycroft and the establishment's inner sanctum tie up all the loose ends and perform a huge cover up job?


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## AverageJoe (Jan 17, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Just caught up with these - I think cumberbatch is great as holmes but freeman can't act/emote to save his life and the script is pretty awful. I don't think it works as a modernisation. All the flashiness is just distracting/annoying.


ah. The Atomic Suplex of the Sherlock thread has arrived.
As I knew he would. /cleverSherlockmode


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## AverageJoe (Jan 17, 2012)

El Sueno said:


> If Holmes' legacy was that of a fraud then surely all the criminals he'd had a hand in convicting would subsequently be released, mistrials called etc. Is that something he would have been comfortable with when he conceived his disappearing act? Or does Mycroft and the establishment's inner sanctum tie up all the loose ends and perform a huge cover up job?


Theme for series three perhaps?


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## Orang Utan (Jan 17, 2012)

AverageJoe said:


> ah. The Atomic Suplex of the Sherlock thread has arrived.
> As I knew he would. /cleverSherlockmode


Someone had to have standards. You people certainly don't.


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## Cid (Jan 17, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Surely when you go to court there is some kind of check on your identity and so on?



Faked documents.


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## Perroquet (Jan 18, 2012)

So, has someone figured it out yet?


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## Reno (Jan 18, 2012)

Got round to watching it last night. The last episode was fun, if not as good as the first episode of the season. Both seasons went along the same trajectory, 1 = great, 2 = shit, 3 = good, so next time I won't bother with 2.

The acting is the best thing about the series and the Cumberbatch is the most mesmerising actor to watch in anything at the moment.


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## boohoo (Jan 18, 2012)

Really enjoyed it. About one thing on telly which holds my goldfish mind at the moment. Cumberbatch is bloody good which helps!


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## yardbird (Jan 18, 2012)

Moriarty music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_BWNzThJY


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## Balbi (Jan 18, 2012)

Also used in Luther this year, along with..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ckv6-yhnIY&feature=fvwrel ...which is my favourite song to wander along singing in my head.


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## Corax (Jan 22, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I think cumberbatch is great as holmes but freeman can't act/emote to save his life


He's a military man coping with borderline PTSD.  He's _supposed_ to be stiff and repressed.


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## London_Calling (Jan 22, 2012)

I'd agree his range is limited but the chemistry between them is both tricky and vital, and that works well. IMO.


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## High Voltage (Jan 22, 2012)

Corax said:


> He's a military man coping with borderline PTSD. He's _supposed_ to be stiff and repressed.



Ah! Ha! OU - get out of that!! 

Brilliant bit of casting then


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## Orang Utan (Jan 22, 2012)

he's still a crap actor. he's only got two looks - blank and goggle-eyed in exasperation


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## High Voltage (Jan 22, 2012)

Granted - he may have "limited" appeal in more demanding roles - but as a borderline PTSD ex-military doctor assistant to a consulting detective based in London he's not bad at all


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## DotCommunist (Jan 22, 2012)

Sherlock cured him of his PTSD in the first episode of the first series


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## High Voltage (Jan 22, 2012)

But it came back when Sherlock "died" - opening scenes of the last episode - not the limp but the stammer


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 22, 2012)

AverageJoe said:


> ah. The Atomic Suplex of the Sherlock thread has arrived.
> As I knew he would. /cleverSherlockmode



Interestingly I think I approve of sherlock holmes. I think I have only watched it tipsy or drunk though so . . . Mind you that didn't ever get me though new girl or Doctor Who.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 22, 2012)

I think Freeman is pretty good in this despite his fairly limited range as an actor. He's certainly in no danger of upstaging the big man, which is as it should be.

e2a: Presumably Guy Ritchie had the same idea when he cast a lump of wood opposite Robert Downey Junior.


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## T & P (Jan 22, 2012)

Sunday night. Where's my Sherlock? 

*shakes fist at Motaff & co for only making 3 eps at a time*


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## Badgers (Jan 23, 2012)

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012...n-in-2012,-says-executive-producer-sue-vertue



> Sue Vertue, Sherlock's executive producer, has dismissed what appeared to be suggestions made by her husband Steven Moffat that the hit drama will return later this year.


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## London_Calling (Jan 23, 2012)

It's not the writing, they take forever; each one is basically a film.


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## T & P (Jan 23, 2012)

Badgers said:


> http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012...n-in-2012,-says-executive-producer-sue-vertue



I had heard that right from the off tbh. Both Cumberbatch and Freeman are said to have major film commitements this year.


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## maldwyn (Jan 23, 2012)

I wanted to like it but couldn't. The only positive is that it got me back into reading the short stories.


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## Santino (Feb 16, 2012)

They're making an American version with Jonny Lee Miller.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 16, 2012)

They made Frankenstein together, didn't they?  Or was that someone else.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 16, 2012)

Santino said:


> They're making an American version with Jonny Lee Miller.


 
But can they top this?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 7, 2013)

*bump*

No dates announced yet, but series 3 is on it's way...

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013...tch-on-sherlock-series-3-youre-in-for-a-treat



Can't wait


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 7, 2013)

I want his coat so badly


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## moon (Aug 7, 2013)

Am so looking forward to Sherlock series 3, now all I need is a new series of Spooks (with Lucas North), the IT crowd and the Voice...
TV heaven..


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## Teaboy (Aug 7, 2013)

Got to say I'm looking forward to the 3rd series as well, one of the few things on tv (sport aside) that I make an effort for



Santino said:


> They're making an American version with Jonny Lee Miller.


 
Anyone who has seen this will realise just how good the BBC version is in comparison.


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## Bungle73 (Aug 7, 2013)

Teaboy said:


> Got to say I'm looking forward to the 3rd series as well, one of the few things on tv (sport aside) that I make an effort for
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who has seen this will realise just how good the BBC version is in comparison.


The US version is good in it's own way - I like it- but not as good as the BBC version. Maybe because they have to squeeze the whole case into 43 minutes, where as the BBC version has 90.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> The US version is good in it's own way - I like it- but not as good as the BBC version. Maybe because they have to squeeze the whole case into 43 minutes, where as the BBC version has 90.


 
I didn't hate it, but nor was I moved to watch more than one episode.


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## Teaboy (Aug 7, 2013)

It was OK if you forgot it was supposed to be Sherlock Holmes.  Also it seemed to me that JLM was just trying to do an impression of Derren Browne.


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## DexterTCN (Aug 8, 2013)

Elementary is ok, very watch-able.

It's no Sherlock, but it does when there's no Sherlock.


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## telbert (Dec 4, 2013)

Looks like Series 3 is gonna be screened on 1st Jan then.  http://www.london24.com/entertainme..._cryptic_tweet_from_show_s_producer_1_3055327 .
 Cant fucking wait.


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## telbert (Dec 11, 2013)

telbert said:


> Looks like Series 3 is gonna be screened on 1st Jan then.  http://www.london24.com/entertainme..._cryptic_tweet_from_show_s_producer_1_3055327 .
> Cant fucking wait.



Just  heard there's an online mini episode on Christmas Day too"Many Happy Returns"..


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## telbert (Dec 25, 2013)

telbert said:


> Just  heard there's an online mini episode on Christmas Day too"Many Happy Returns"..


 You can watch it now:http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/


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## bouncer_the_dog (Dec 25, 2013)

settled down to watch series 3 with dinner... and it was a fucking 5 minute mini episode.. what a load of bollocks  x 1m


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## T & P (Dec 31, 2013)

Not long to go now... not long at all


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## quimcunx (Oct 26, 2014)

I've just watched series 1 and 2 on Netflix. I need 3. Its not on Netflix or iplayer. *weeps*


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## Ming (Oct 26, 2014)

It is on US Netflix (use a VPN with a US server location). I only got into the new Sherlock in the last 2 weeks. It's good stuff. The wedding episode is amazing.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 26, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> I've just watched series 1 and 2 on Netflix. I need 3. Its not on Netflix or iplayer. *weeps*


Torrent it


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