# iPhone 5 and iOS 6 discussion



## Sunray (Jun 8, 2012)

Lots of speculation this is going to be announced at the Apple dev conference on Monday evening.  Fairly predictable based on past performance. 

Not really be taking any interest in the rumours of recent times, but phone is really wearing out now, having been submerged twice and dropped many, many times.

Been two years since their last creation.  The S series are just mid life kickers.


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## sumimasen (Jun 8, 2012)

Larger screen blates.


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## editor (Jun 8, 2012)

They're going to have to go with a larger display since the runaway success of the Samsung S2/S3 has proved beyond all doubt that customers want the choice of a larger screen.


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## magneze (Jun 8, 2012)

Facebork integration & Google Map replacement also heavily trailed.

Very few surprises these days.


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## maldwyn (Jun 8, 2012)

An early release would be a surprise.

Headphone jack at the bottom and smaller dock connector could be an irritation.

Full marks on forcing google into an early maps announcement.


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## editor (Jun 8, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> An early release would be a surprise.
> 
> Headphone jack at the bottom and smaller dock connector could be an irritation.
> 
> Full marks on forcing google into an early maps announcement.


If the leaked case photos are correct, putting the headphone jack at the bottom is a really un-Apple like stupid decision. It's an awful place to put it.


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## spacemonkey (Jun 8, 2012)

My iPhone 4 is battered to fuck now (got it a few days after launch) and long since paid it off. Really tempted by an S3, interested to see what Apple can deliver with 'the new iPhone' to tempt me back. 4 inch or bust.


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## Lazy Llama (Jun 8, 2012)

editor said:


> If the leaked case photos are correct, putting the headphone jack at the bottom is a really un-Apple like stupid decision. It's an awful place to put it.


iPod Touch's have always had the headphone jack at the bottom, as far as I know, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.


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## editor (Jun 8, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> iPod Touch's have always had the headphone jack at the bottom, as far as I know, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.


I've had a couple of phones with the headphone jack at the bottom and they've all irritated me.


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## maldwyn (Jun 8, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> iPod Touch's have always had the headphone jack at the bottom, as far as I know, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.


Annoying, especially when it's in a charging doc and you wanna use your headphones.


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## souljacker (Jun 10, 2012)

They should:

Sort out the browser
Sort out the email client (it's shit for exchange users)
Ditch the shitty notifications bar.
Make the silent button software, not hardware.
Make iTunes less diabolical on Windows (or make it possible to use other media programs easily)

Then they will be getting somewhere near Android, which is miles ahead at the moment.


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## fen_boy (Jun 10, 2012)

souljacker said:


> Make the silent button software, not hardware.


 
God no, don't do that. I really miss this now I've switched to Android.


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## souljacker (Jun 10, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> God no, don't do that. I really miss this now I've switched to Android.


 
You'll get used to it.

What I'd really like is something like the old Nokia profiles where you can have different volumes for different times of day and different situations.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2012)

Doubt very much we'll see iPhone 5 but reckon we'll get iOS 6, iCloud stuff and Mountain Lion will be available within a week or two plus a website only update of the Mac line...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2012)

souljacker said:


> They should:
> 
> Sort out the browser
> Sort out the email client (it's shit for exchange users)
> ...



Why is the email client shit for exchange?


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## maldwyn (Jun 10, 2012)

There's all those iP4 coming to the end of their contracts and I'm sure loads of folk might be tempted by the S3 so I wouldn't be surprised if they announced the iP5.
It's usually an hour long keynote so I can't see them packing that much in, perhaps something about maps, a non-retina MBP new form upgrade in addition to what has already been mentioned.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2012)

I'd lay money there'll be no iPhone 5 announced.


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## RaverDrew (Jun 10, 2012)

iPhone 5 won't be out until October


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## pseudonarcissus (Jun 10, 2012)

souljacker said:


> You'll get used to it.
> 
> What I'd really like is something like the old Nokia profiles where you can have different volumes for different times of day and different situations.



I'm not sure I would....I find myself switching it onto silent in my pocket, I didn't like phones needing the screen unlock then button sequence when you are in a meetin


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## editor (Jun 10, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> God no, don't do that. I really miss this now I've switched to Android.


That was the best idea Apple stole off Palm.


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## magneze (Jun 11, 2012)

Rumour that iOS6 won't work on first gen iPad.


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## souljacker (Jun 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why is the email client shit for exchange?


 
It never syncs all the folders correctly so if you need to find an old email, you can be guaranteed it won't be there. And the calendar thing doesn't deal with accepts properly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.


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## Rasklart (Jun 11, 2012)

editor said:


> That was the best idea Apple stole off Palm.


I have my Palm Treo in front of me now, and I love that silent button.


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## RaverDrew (Jun 11, 2012)

Pretty certain Palm stole that silent button from Sony originally.

I'm just hoping they let me have iOS 6 on my 3GS


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Pretty certain Palm stole that silent button from Sony originally.


Not on a smartphone, they didn't.


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## Bungle73 (Jun 11, 2012)

souljacker said:


> They should:
> 
> Sort out the browser
> Sort out the email client (it's shit for exchange users)
> ...


What's wrong with the browser? Anyway there are a hundred and one alternative browsers. What they really need to do is implement an option so you can change your default browser.


editor said:


> That was the best idea Apple stole off Palm.


Apple "stole" the idea of a silent button from Palm? Isn't that like saying Vauxhall "stole" the idea of putting wheels on a car? Oh and it should stay as a hardware button. Much easier to use.


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Apple "stole" the idea of a silent button from Palm? Isn't that like saying Vauxhall "stole" the idea of putting wheels on a car? .


Compared to the things that Apple tries to claim as their own ideas (rounded corners, flat screen, bezels etc) as least Palm's 'silence all' button was something that didn't actually exist on phones before.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> What's wrong with the browser? Anyway there are a hundred and one alternative browsers. What they really need to do is implement an option so you can change your default browser.
> 
> Apple "stole" the idea of a silent button from Palm? Isn't that like saying Vauxhall "stole" the idea of putting wheels on a car? Oh and it should stay as a hardware button. Much easier to use.



The language of 'theft' is bullshit when it comes to this stuff, it's deployed as a red herring by fanbois of all stripes to distract from the point of whether a new product is actually good or the right for a user.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

souljacker said:


> It never syncs all the folders correctly so if you need to find an old email, you can be guaranteed it won't be there. And the calendar thing doesn't deal with accepts properly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.



Ok fair enough. I've been using exchange via the default mail app for the past year with no problem....


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## grit (Jun 11, 2012)

magneze said:


> Rumour that iOS6 won't work on first gen iPad.


 
In fairness thats reasonable they are pretty good at backwards compatibility where its possible.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

grit said:


> In fairness thats reasonable they are pretty good at backwards compatibility where its possible.



They're newer than the 3GS, this is a business decision not a technical one if you ask me...


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## grit (Jun 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They're newer than the 3GS,* this is a business decision* not a technical one if you ask me...


 
Isint it always... point stands its still reasonable.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 11, 2012)

To stop supporting hardware that's only just two years old? That strikes me as pretty far from reasonable tbh.


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## RaverDrew (Jun 11, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> To stop supporting hardware that's only just two years old? That strikes me as pretty far from reasonable tbh.


 
Most two year old Android phones won't be getting an official Ice Cream Sandwich update tbf.


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## Bungle73 (Jun 11, 2012)

Why would they make iOS 6 available for the iPhone 3GS, which is getting pretty long in the tooth now, but not the original iPad?



Global Stoner said:


> To stop supporting hardware that's only just two years old? That strikes me as pretty far from reasonable tbh.


It's not like anyone's iPad will stop working, they just won't be able to use the new features.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 11, 2012)

Yeah that's a fair point, I guess my Desire HD won't get it, although I'd say this is one place that apple have an advantage over Google, controlling both the hardware and software.


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Yeah that's a fair point, I guess my Desire HD won't get it....


Oh yes it will!

HTC reveals Desire HD Ice Cream Sandwich update plans
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...re-hd-ice-cream-sandwich-update-plans-1081647


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh yes it will!
> 
> HTC reveals Desire HD Ice Cream Sandwich update plans
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...re-hd-ice-cream-sandwich-update-plans-1081647


 
That's a pleasant surprise!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 11, 2012)

HTC might announce it but its down to the networks if you get it. I'm still waiting for the ICS update for my Sensation on T-Mobile


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 11, 2012)

Does have a generic unlocked one, rather then a carrier branded one make any difference in these situations?


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> HTC might announce it but its down to the networks if you get it. I'm still waiting for the ICS update for my Sensation on T-Mobile


You can always root the thing and gorge yourself on the update pronto.


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Does have a generic unlocked one, rather then a carrier branded one make any difference in these situations?


If it's an unlocked, non-carrier branded number, you should get it more or less straight away.

(*apols for the off topic veer)


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 11, 2012)

editor said:


> You can always root the thing and gorge yourself on the update pronto.


I'd have more faith in my ability to perform open heart surgery than fuck about with my phones operating system.


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd have more faith in my ability to perform open heart surgery than fuck about with my phones operating system.


I got my nephew to do it because I thought it was a dark, scary science, but it's actually really very straightforward.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I got my nephew to do it.


Exactly. I need a teenager.


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## RaverDrew (Jun 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I got my nephew to do it because I thought it was a dark, scary science, but it's actually really very straightforward.


 
It certainly depends upon the handset, some are very easy indeed, but some are next to impossible, or just a right old palaver.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Why would they make iOS 6 available for the iPhone 3GS, which is getting pretty long in the tooth now, but not the original iPad?
> 
> 
> It's not like anyone's iPad will stop working, they just won't be able to use the new features.


 
Because they want people to buy the new iPad or at least the iPad 2 and they don't make iPad 1 anymore. The 3GS is still sold as a budget phone so it has to support the latest iOS until the iPhone 4 takes its place as the budget line when the iPhone 5 comes out.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> To stop supporting hardware that's only just two years old? That strikes me as pretty far from reasonable tbh.


 
It's a business decision...far from reasonable for the consumer but utterly predictable imo...


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## Sunray (Jun 12, 2012)

souljacker said:


> It never syncs all the folders correctly so if you need to find an old email, you can be guaranteed it won't be there. And the calendar thing doesn't deal with accepts properly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.


 
I can pretty much guarantee that unless your on Office365 this is the Exchange install.


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## Kanda (Jun 12, 2012)

souljacker said:


> It never syncs all the folders correctly so if you need to find an old email, you can be guaranteed it won't be there. And the calendar thing doesn't deal with accepts properly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.


 
It's setup wrong then. I've got about 20 iPhone users on my Exchange box and they give me less problems than Blackberry users.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jun 12, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> To stop supporting hardware that's only just two years old? That strikes me as pretty far from reasonable tbh.


Bottom of this page - http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/  - ios6 is compatible with iphone 3gs, 4, 4s, ipod touch 4th generation and the ipad 2 + 3


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

Kanda said:


> It's setup wrong then. I've got about 20 iPhone users on my Exchange box and they give me less problems than Blackberry users.


 
Ive got 3 accounts set up with exchange on iphone and ipad. all work perfectly


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## Crispy (Jun 12, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Why would they make iOS 6 available for the iPhone 3GS, which is getting pretty long in the tooth now, but not the original iPad?


I guess the ipad version needs more RAM than the iphone version.


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## Bungle73 (Jun 12, 2012)

I guess this means no more Street View for iOS......unless Google come out with a map app (and I hope they do).

I also hope the new map app has the option for travel other than by car.


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## editor (Jun 12, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I guess this means no more Street View for iOS......unless Google come out with a map app (and I hope they do).


They will be (unless Apple try and ban it for being better than theirs).


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I guess this means no more Street View for iOS......unless Google come out with a map app (and I hope they do).
> 
> I also hope the new map app has the option for travel other than by car.



That's a good point although personally I never use it on my phone while out so won't miss it....


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## Bungle73 (Jun 12, 2012)

I use it quite often on my iPad. Granted I'm usually at home so I could use my PC, but most of the time I'm either downstairs (my PC is my bedroom) sitting on the sofa, or in bed, which is why I'm using my iPad.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I use it quite often on my iPad. Granted I'm usually at home so I could use my PC, but most of the time I'm either downstairs (my PC is my bedroom) sitting on the sofa, or in bed, which is why I'm using my iPad.



I use it on my laptop but never seen any practical value while walking down the street tbh...


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jun 12, 2012)

I only use it when lost. First time drunkenly at roskilde with hilarious consequences


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## souljacker (Jun 12, 2012)

Kanda said:


> It's setup wrong then. I've got about 20 iPhone users on my Exchange box and they give me less problems than Blackberry users.


 
Even full syncing with all folders? My boss is an extreme aplle fanboy and even he can't suss out why it doesn't work.


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## Kanda (Jun 12, 2012)

souljacker said:


> Even full syncing with all folders? My boss is an extreme aplle fanboy and even he can't suss out why it doesn't work.



You select in exchange settings: Mail days to sync... You have: No limit, 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month....

You can also select what folders to have mail pushed to them...


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jun 12, 2012)

Mine does full syncing with all folders no problems both on my gmail and on my work exchange setup


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## Winot (Jun 12, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Mine does full syncing with all folders no problems both on my gmail and on my work exchange setup



Ditto


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2012)

Yup same here, all folders in both gmail and exchange.


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## editor (Jun 13, 2012)

Here's what runs what with the new iOS.



Fragmentation, anyone?

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/12/psa-which-ios-6-features-can-my-device-run/


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2012)

Heh


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## Badgers (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:
			
		

> Oh yes it will!
> 
> HTC reveals Desire HD Ice Cream Sandwich update plans
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...re-hd-ice-cream-sandwich-update-plans-1081647



Good news. I want the ICS update 

Still got a month or two wait on the Desire HD


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## RaverDrew (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's what runs what with the new iOS.
> 
> View attachment 20088
> 
> ...



Pmsl


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## maldwyn (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Fragmentation, anyone?


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## Crispy (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Fragmentation, anyone?


Not good at all.


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## editor (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Not good at all.


I wonder if there'll be half as many blogs and tech sites going on and on and on about it, like they did for Android.


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## souljacker (Jun 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup same here, all folders in both gmail and exchange.


 
I shall refer my bitching to our support guy then.

It's still got a shit browser though.


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## Kanda (Jun 13, 2012)

souljacker said:


> I shall refer my bitching to our support guy then.
> 
> It's still got a shit browser though.


 
Other Browsers are available...


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## RaverDrew (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> I wonder if there'll be half as many blogs and tech sites going on and on and on about it, like they did for Android.


 
You're havin a bubble right ? It's not anywhere close to the fragmentation of Android, not even in the same league. You can't compare the two at all, not one tincy wincy bit.


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## Kanda (Jun 13, 2012)

My iPad 1 just about copes with IOS5. That now just sits as a 'coffee table' book for whoever to use... I've wiped most apps and personal info off it.


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## editor (Jun 13, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> You're havin a bubble right ? It's not anywhere close to the fragmentation of Android, not even in the same league. You can't compare the two at all, not one tincy wincy bit.


Except it'sbeen wildly overblown - mainly by these very same blogs and iOS advocates. There are difficulties but nothing as bad as is often portrayed and, of course, Android developers don't have to kowtow to Apple's censorial and often totally opaque app approval system.


> I was really glad to see this post from the good folks at Pocket. They're saying what I've said a couple of times: Android is far easier to develop for than the tech press leads people to believe. Android's supposed "fragmentation" problem is a myth for most developers.
> I'd like to see more Android developers do as Pocket did and help lay to rest this crazy notion that developing for Android means having to purchase dozens - or even hundreds - of Android phones to test with.
> If you're an Android developer, you already know most of the "fragmentation" headlines are bogus. But people who don't develop for Android may actually believe these articles and think Android apps are impossibly hard to create because there are so many different screen sizes to deal with.
> 
> http://nick.typepad.com/blog/


Even Steve Jobs got slapped down when he tried to spread FUD and Android fragmentation
TweetDeck Founder To Steve Jobs: Developing For Fragmented Android Isn't Bad


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## souljacker (Jun 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Other Browsers are available...


 

What can you recommend?


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## Kanda (Jun 13, 2012)

souljacker said:


> What can you recommend?


 
Haven't used many, I use Atomic Web though.


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## Crispy (Jun 13, 2012)

The device fragmentation runs in one direction and is not really a big deal, but the OS version fragmentation runs in the other direction and matters more. 80% of iOS devices are running the latest - version 5. Whereas less than 5% of Android devices are running version 4. Means developers can't use all the new APIs. On top of that, you can add the customised UIs that the manufacturers and operators install. It's a mess. Here's an excellent article on the topic: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/jan/19/google-android-fragmentation-effect


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## souljacker (Jun 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Haven't used many, I use Atomic Web though.


 
I have an extreme aversion to paying for stuff on my work phone so even at 69p, I won't bother! Maybe I'll try Dolphin or Opera.


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## RaverDrew (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Except it'sbeen wildly overblown - mainly by these very same blogs and iOS advocates. There are difficulties but nothing as bad as is often portrayed and, of course, Android developers don't have to kowtow to Apple's censorial and often totally opaque app approval system.
> 
> Even Steve Jobs got slapped down when he tried to spread FUD and Android fragmentation
> TweetDeck Founder To Steve Jobs: Developing For Fragmented Android Isn't Bad


 
Not so bad for developers, but not good for users, hardly anyone is running Ice Cream Sandwich, whereas nearly all iOS users have the latest version.

edit: what crispy said


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The device fragmentation runs in one direction and is not really a big deal, but the OS version fragmentation runs in the other direction and matters more. 80% of iOS devices are running the latest - version 5. Whereas less than 5% of Android devices are running version 4. Means developers can't use all the new APIs. On top of that, you can add the customised UIs that the manufacturers and operators install. It's a mess. Here's an excellent article on the topic: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/jan/19/google-android-fragmentation-effect



It's a non issue but as usual it's good to get a heads up on the latest fandroid trolling line.


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## editor (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Here's an excellent article on the topic: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/jan/19/google-android-fragmentation-effect


Well, there's a massively unbiased source:





> Charlie  Kindel *worked at Microsoft* for 21 years, latterly on Windows Mobile and then on Windows Phone, where he was in charge of getting third-party apps on the platform, before leaving the company last August. He thinks Windows Phone is "the BEST product Microsoft has ever built".


I think I'll go with what the actual developers say here.

99.1% of Android devices run v2 upwards.


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## Kanda (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Well, there's a massively unbiased source:I think I'll go with what the actual developers say here.
> 
> 99.1% of Android devices run v2 upwards.


 
What percentage of each version is installed?


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## editor (Jun 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> What percentage of each version is installed?


Google -->

It makes fuck all difference to most consumers, btw. Despite some people going on and on about it, I've never worried once about fragmentation and it's a total non issue to most users.

If you read the articles from developers above, it appears that it's hardly a major issue for them either, regardless of how much FUD is spread about.


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## Kanda (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Google -->
> 
> It makes fuck all difference to most consumers, btw. Despite some people going on and on about it, I've never worried once about fragmentation and it's a total non issue to most users.
> 
> If you read the articles from developers above, it appears that it's hardly a major issue for them either, regardless of how much FUD is spread about.


 
I'd never heard about the issue till you bought it up about the IOS platform. If it makes no difference to most consumers...


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## editor (Jun 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> I'd never heard about the issue till you bought it up about the IOS platform. If it makes no difference to most consumers...


It's been brought up by others all over these boards for ages.
Search -->


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## Kanda (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> It's been brought up by others all over these boards for ages.
> Search -->


 
Why don't we just get back to iPhone 5 and IOS 6 discussion then, that's why I visited this thread, not to talk about Android 

I can't be arsed with platform wars.


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## RaverDrew (Jun 13, 2012)




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## editor (Jun 13, 2012)

Oh dear. Looks like Apple's mapping has a long way to go before it can match Google. 



> Apple's new Maps app confuses Greenland for the Indian Ocean, the Indian Ocean for the Arctic Ocean, _the middle of Africa for the North Pacific_, and the southern ocean for the North Atlantic. Which, you know, not minor details.


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## Crispy (Jun 13, 2012)

Good job it's not out for another 3 or 4 months then


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Why don't we just get back to iPhone 5 and IOS 6 discussion then, that's why I visited this thread, not to talk about Android
> 
> I can't be arsed with platform wars.



This.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Good job it's not out for another 3 or 4 months then



Beta is a funny word, some people see it meaning unfinished/work in progress others see it as a full product.


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## elbows (Jun 13, 2012)

Regarding fragmentation, whilst it is quite easy for people to overstate the issue, there are some very real issues for both developers and consumers.

For consumers, its mostly about the feeling of being ripped off that can be felt when a device that isn't too many years gets locked out of improvements and new features that don't, at first glance, seem to have a legitimate hardware justification.

For developers, we have to be careful about what we are talking about. I think the first criticism of Android fragmentation were to do with the array of handsets, resolutions etc. Its an issue, but its probably too easy to get carried away with how much pain it involves, and certainly other aspects of modern devices, their OS's, APIs and development tools have helped to ease any pain, at least to a certain extent.

But now we are talking about a different sort of fragmentation, OS version. Again its possible to overstate the implications, but I thoroughly reject the ignorant attempts to suggest this doesn't bother developers. There are plenty of occasions where developers want to use the latest API's, and the fact that a significant portion of the user base have an OS version that lacks the latest APIs can be a real pisser. To pretend this will annoy all developers would be a gross overstatement, it really comes down to the nature of the apps that a specific developer is writing, its features, whether the features are core to the app or a nice bonus, and how trivial it is to write code for that platform that falls back gracefully if the user doesn't have the right OS version. These issues are further mitigated by the tendency for some developers these days to be using development environments that can target a number of disparate platforms, and where someone else has already written the layers that need to know the intricacies and quirks of different OS API's. Again it will come down to the features of the app being developed as to how much of a pain this stuff is.

Given that its not really so many years since we first started to escape a tedious mobile world that progressed slowly and unevenly, and that significant percentages of users being stuck with older web browsers has caused plenty of headaches for those creating stuff for the web and has slowed progress on this front, I do not think I am going out on a limb by making a case that fragmentation is not a trivial irrelevance.


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## Sunray (Jun 13, 2012)

This is called technical debt and its a headache for all developers everywhere, not just the mobile world.

Apple, Microsoft and Google release a new version of an OS, you instantly get technical debt onto your backlog. Fixing stuff that stopped working properly and learning how to incorporate all the new wizzy features  or new paradigms of the OS into the app or even if they are applicable.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> Regarding fragmentation, whilst it is quite easy for people to overstate the issue, there are some very real issues for both developers and consumers.
> 
> For consumers, its mostly about the feeling of being ripped off that can be felt when a device that isn't too many years gets locked out of improvements and new features that don't, at first glance, seem to have a legitimate hardware justification.
> 
> ...


Yah. Screen resolution wouldn't bother me overly if writing for Android; screen _size_ would, there is a lot of but most phones are similar sizes and tablets at the moment are a bit of a non-issue. (If it turns out that Android tablets do actually take off, and also that they're in a number of different sizes from 5" to 11", that _would_ be a pain for UI design, but that's not the situation at the moment.)

On the other hand if there's a basic difference in core APIs I will have to pick and choose what to support. You see this with OS X, which introduces new and improved APIs constantly which developers like to use; it doesn't take long before versions of apps are only compatible with the latest version and anybody who chooses for some reason to stick with an older one is stuck with old software. This is practical because most people do upgrade, even with OS X. If most people find upgrading difficult or impossible, the tendency will be to go for the lowest common denominator and the work that the OS designers have done will go to waste. Using a separate dev platform can actually make this even harder - I write iOS apps using Unity, so I'm stuck with whatever choices the Unity writers decide to make as to how the software builds iOS projects, and can't carefully tweak what I am going to use for backwards compatibility.

Entirely new features in an OS (like the ones mentioned in the so-called iOS "fragmentation" table) aren't an issue. For a start, lots of those won't have an API anyway, and you can check if it's there or not; if it isn't available you either remove that option or just say that the app isn't compatible if the feature is central.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Beta is a funny word, some people see it meaning unfinished/work in progress others see it as a full product.


Seeing as Apple VERY heavily promoted Siri as the iPhone 4S's leading new feature in its advertising, it does rather muddy the waters of what beta is supposed to mean.


----------



## grit (Jun 13, 2012)

.


----------



## grit (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> If you read the articles from developers above, it appears that it's hardly a major issue for them either, regardless of how much FUD is spread about.


 
Thats from the tweetdeck developers, its basically a fucking CRUD application. Of course fragmentation isint going to affect them. Heh, talk to someone writing real time applications such as games and that tune changes really fucking quickly. In fact tweetdeck isint even a native application on other platforms, its a bloody Adobe Air app!!


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Seeing as Apple VERY heavily promoted Siri as the iPhone 4S's leading new feature in its advertising, it does rather muddy the waters of what beta is supposed to mean.


 
Whats that got to do with Apples new map thing? Siri and umpteen other non-Apple things being described as beta when available to the general public is one thing, but what we are talking about with iOS 6 is something else entirely. A release that is for developers, not yet released to the general public (even if some do obtain it by other means or pay to get on the developer program without actually developing). Not the same thing, especially as its not the gold master.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Using a separate dev platform can actually make this even harder - I write iOS apps using Unity, so I'm stuck with whatever choices the Unity writers decide to make as to how the software builds iOS projects, and can't carefully tweak what I am going to use for backwards compatibility.


 
Yes I was remiss in not mentioning that such an approach comes with downsides. This sort of thing makes me nervous, not jut in terms of the new API's stuff we've been discussing but also more generally having to rely on additional teams of developers to get their layers right and be relatively timely with their updates and fixes. I can live with it, but I'm more comfortable when I have a fallback plan b, and can dig into the underbelly if I need to. I think there is probably some stuff that can be done by manually messing with the xcode project that unity generates, but this has its limits and even if it were possible to take it far then it really starts to defeat some of the points of using Unity in the first place.

Mind you at least Unity does support plugins so I note that when it comes to some of the additional services Apple have added to iOS over the years, and their associated API's, there are quite a few 3rd party solutions for making use of these in Unity. But here too I'd be much more comfortable if the source code is provided rather than having to rely on that party to keep on top of things.


----------



## Winot (Jun 14, 2012)

souljacker said:


> What can you recommend?



icab mobile is worth a look


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2012)

iOS6 will include gay and lesbian emoticons:


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2012)

grit said:


> Thats from the tweetdeck developers, its basically a fucking CRUD application.


No it's not. Tweetdeck was by far the best Twitter app on Android until Twitter bought it for £25m and its enhanced version, Tweakdeck is still my first choice. Both apps enjoy very high rankings in the App Store so I don't think you really know what you're talking about.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 14, 2012)

Video showing the iPhone5

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/..._n_1596243.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-tech&ir=UK Tech



Unfortunately its just a concept piece not a real sneak peek.


----------



## grit (Jun 14, 2012)

editor said:


> No it's not. Tweetdeck was by far the best Twitter app on Android until Twitter bought it for £25m and its enhanced version, Tweakdeck is still my first choice. Both apps enjoy very high rankings in the App Store so I don't think you really know what you're talking about.


 
CRUD isint a commentary on its quality, it stands for create read update delete, the most basic type of software.


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## editor (Jun 14, 2012)

grit said:


> CRUD isint a commentary on its quality, it stands for create read update delete, the most basic type of software.


So what does a "_fucking_ CRUD application" mean?


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## grit (Jun 14, 2012)

editor said:


> So what does a "_fucking_ CRUD application" mean?


a fucking create read update delete application. An exclamation at the fact that designing such an app would not lead them to have to deal with issues relating to fragmentation because the applications functionality is so basic.


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## elbows (Jun 14, 2012)

If they've used Adobe Air then yeah, they've decided to compromise on certain possibilities by letting someone else worry about any fragmentation issues.

Im not so sure about your CRUD point. Not in an era where the cloud is becoming relevant, and where having the latest APIs that let you access cloud-based files is probably a reasonable example of the sorts of thing that can be affected by the API blues that fragmentation can foster.


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2012)

Here's what game developers say:


> All of the developers Gamasutra spoke to agreed that fragmentation problems haven't been enough to dissuade them from making games for the platform. The Binary Mill's Lak echoes many of their statements: "[Google Play/Android Market] is growing rapidly, and represents a market opportunity that devs would be crazy to ignore."
> 
> "It's definitely worth it for us," says Knoesel. "Both of our apps so far have so far performed better on Google Play than in the App Store. This is due to several reasons including (but not limited to) the nature of our games, the flooded state of the App Store, and the way rankings are calculated."
> "Android as of now is the leader in the mobile OS race, and I don't see that dwindling anytime soon," comments Digital Harmony's Kim. He emphasizes the importance of publishing games to both iOS and Android: "Strategically planning releases cross-platform is a must if you want to maximize on your potential and value, even if it's a pain to deal with."





> Another reason why many developers are willing to overlook Android fragmentation is that they believe it's becoming less of a concern. The Binary Mill's Lak says the situation has "definitely improved" and comments, "The market is maturing, and as time goes on, fragmentation seems to be becoming less of an issue as the power of devices exponentially increases."


http://gamasutra.com/view/news/170689/Dealing_with_Androids_fragmented_market.php


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## editor (Jun 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> If they've used Adobe Air then yeah, they've decided to compromise on certain possibilities by letting someone else worry about any fragmentation issues.


The Android app doesn't use Air.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 14, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> That's a pleasant surprise!



It's not. ICS is fucking awful.


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## grit (Jun 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> If they've used Adobe Air then yeah, they've decided to compromise on certain possibilities by letting someone else worry about any fragmentation issues.
> 
> Im not so sure about your CRUD point. Not in an era where the cloud is becoming relevant, and where having the latest APIs that let you access cloud-based files is probably a reasonable example of the sorts of thing that can be affected by the API blues that fragmentation can foster.


 
"Cloud" is just going to be http requests and parsing some JSON/XML.. hardly going to be deprecated! Plus those API's will be provided by the service, not the OS.


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## editor (Jun 14, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> It's not. ICS is fucking awful.


Eh?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> It's not. ICS is fucking awful.



ICS?


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## grit (Jun 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> ICS?


 
Ice cream sandwich.


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## elbows (Jun 14, 2012)

grit said:


> "Cloud" is just going to be http requests and parsing some JSON/XML.. hardly going to be deprecated! Plus those API's will be provided by the service, not the OS.


 
Considering we are presently seeing the likes of twitter and facebook getting some integration into iOS, as well as Apples own iCloud service, I think it may be a good idea to merge that opinion with the one I gave, rather than either of us claim to have it spot on.


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## elbows (Jun 14, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's what game developers say:
> http://gamasutra.com/view/news/170689/Dealing_with_Androids_fragmented_market.php


 
Congratulations, I think thats the most selective forum quoting of an article to slant its direction that I've ever seen. I love the fact that the article is actually rammed full of detail about the issues and pain, did you learn much from it?


----------



## elbows (Jun 14, 2012)

And I quite agree that many developers can't afford to ignore Android. The fragmentation and other issues are not gamestoppers, and they do not distribute their pain evenly to all developers. But they are real enough issues that people won't often be able to utterly dismiss the issues as irrelevant without some developers moaning at them. Finding quotes from developers that are more than happy to face these annoyances is fair enough, and we already know these developers exist as apps exist for Android, but don't think for a minute it counters my points.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 14, 2012)

editor said:


> Eh?



Every iteration, official or custom, killed the battery life on my S2 and made it less intuitive.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2012)

grit said:


> Ice cream sandwich.



Why is it every Apple thread on urban always turns into an Android one?


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> Every iteration, official or custom, killed the battery life on my S2 and made it less intuitive.


Sounds like you've got a rogue app in there. Did you do a clean install?


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> Congratulations, I think thats the most selective forum quoting of an article to slant its direction that I've ever seen. I love the fact that the article is actually rammed full of detail about the issues and pain, did you learn much from it?


I added salient points to counter the exaggerated claims being made here, adding some lines from the conclusion and then linking to the whole article. Sorry if you the words of these professional game app developers don't chime with your own opinion on the matter.


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## ChrisFilter (Jun 14, 2012)

Yeah, completely clean. Back on CyanogenMod 7 and all is well. Battery is solid again, Gmail is nicer again and browsers autofit to text again. Nice.


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## editor (Jun 14, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, completely clean. Back on CyanogenMod 7 and all is well. Battery is solid again, Gmail is nicer again and browsers autofit to text again. Nice.


(apols for the continuing derail)
So you're using ICS now? I'm using AOKP/ICS and it's ace.


----------



## elbows (Jun 14, 2012)

editor said:


> I added salient points to counter the exaggerated claims being made here, adding some lines from the conclusion and then linking to the whole article. Sorry if you the words of these professional game app developers don't chime with your own opinion on the matter.


 
What exaggerated claims? I don't remember anyone trying to really describe the scale of the problem for developers, the amount of fragmentation and some detail yes, but not the scale of the headache this causes for developers, how many of them are put off by this, etc. I don't know how you'd measure that properly, although that article tried to by using a survey of 250 developers,finding 86 percent thought it was a problem, and more than half thought it was a meaningful or huge issue to deal with! Doesn't that go way beyond what anybody has tried to claim here? lol.


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## grit (Jun 15, 2012)

elbows said:


> Considering we are presently seeing the likes of twitter and facebook getting some integration into iOS, as well as Apples own iCloud service, I think it may be a good idea to merge that opinion with the one I gave, rather than either of us claim to have it spot on.


 
Yeah thats fair enough


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 15, 2012)

editor said:


> (apols for the continuing derail)
> So you're using ICS now? I'm using AOKP/ICS and it's ace.



No, back on gingerbread. For me ICS meant battery life of 10 hours, email that didn't auto-fill addresses properly, browsers that didn't auto-wrap text. All of them annoyed me immensely so I'm back on the old version that suffers from none of those problems.

I tried multiple roms and all were the same.


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> No, back on gingerbread. For me ICS meant battery life of 10 hours, email that didn't auto-fill addresses properly, browsers that didn't auto-wrap text. All of them annoyed me immensely so I'm back on the old version that suffers from none of those problems.
> 
> I tried multiple roms and all were the same.


That's odd because mine runs ICS fine and I don't know anyone else having the same problems. Did you try Chrome?


----------



## souljacker (Jun 15, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> No, back on gingerbread. For me ICS meant battery life of 10 hours, email that didn't auto-fill addresses properly, browsers that didn't auto-wrap text. All of them annoyed me immensely so I'm back on the old version that suffers from none of those problems.
> 
> I tried multiple roms and all were the same.


 
The stock SII ICS is running perfectly for me. Fucking awesome in fact.


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## Kanda (Jun 15, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why is it every Apple thread on urban always turns into an Android one?


innit...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 15, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why is it every Apple thread on urban always turns into an Android one?



Because conversation is fluid. They're pretty similar subjects, really, so it's no surprise that when people are discussing one phone OS, another one enters the fray.


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## Kanda (Jun 15, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> Because conversation is fluid. They're pretty similar subjects, really, so it's no surprise that when people are discussing one phone OS, another one enters the fray.


 
If  IOS was bought up in a similar manner on an Android threat you'd be berated quite quickly..


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## ChrisFilter (Jun 15, 2012)

Kanda said:


> If  IOS was bought up in a similar manner on an Android threat you'd be berated quite quickly..



Ah well. Such is urban!


----------



## grit (Jun 15, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> No, back on gingerbread. For me ICS meant battery life of 10 hours, email that didn't auto-fill addresses properly, browsers that didn't auto-wrap text. All of them annoyed me immensely so I'm back on the old version that suffers from none of those problems.
> 
> I tried multiple roms and all were the same.


 
Did you use the official image over the air from your network?


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## ChrisFilter (Jun 15, 2012)

grit said:


> Did you use the official image over the air from your network?



Yeah, at first.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 15, 2012)

Apparently Apple's new maps will have 20 million more local business listings than Google's (100m compared to 80m). Which is nice.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 15, 2012)

.


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## Gromit (Jun 17, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently Apple's new maps will have 20 million more local business listings than Google's (100m compared to 80m). Which is nice.



But will only work in the states if Siri is any indication.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2012)

Gromit said:


> But will only work in the states if Siri is any indication.



Im not sure, this is through a partnership with Yelp which you can get over here as an app...


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## Gromit (Jun 18, 2012)

So I've only just seen that Apple are switching Google maps with their own ap.

I do hope this doesn't mean Google maps won't be allowed in the apstore either.


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## paolo (Jun 18, 2012)

Gromit said:


> So I've only just seen that Apple are switching Google maps with their own ap.
> 
> I do hope this doesn't mean Google maps won't be allowed in the apstore either.


 
I'm assuming they'll be mutuality exclusive.

iOS gets Apple's 3D maps.uvh
Android & Web based (google): gets streetview.

No Google maps option? (Either Apple banned, or Google non participating)

If I had to choose, I'd forego 3D and rather have Streetview. At least for tablet use (never use it much on the phone).


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2012)

I'd rather have accurate maps then 3D or streetview tbh. Both of those aren't high on my list of must haves for mapping.


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## paolo (Jun 18, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'd rather have accurate maps then 3D or streetview tbh. Both of those aren't high on my list of must haves for mapping.


 

I use a free sat nav (on iOS) that uses the open source map data. Seems to work ok, so no big deal I guess.


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## maldwyn (Jun 18, 2012)

iOS6 Maps is underpinned by TomTom so it's likely to work


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## paolo (Jun 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> iOS6 Maps is underpinned by TomTom so it's likely to work


 
TomTom will be an intermediate licensee, so I guess that means underneath it'll be good old Navteq etc. So, proprietary maps (which seem to be better quality at the moment - Navteq map surveying still, I think, beats Google native).

Still a shame to lose Streetview. Apple has enough gazillion dollars to start it's own surveying fleet, but no indication right now they'll do it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2012)

Been thinking about the streetview thing, the first question I always ask about feature removal is when was the last time I used it? If I can't answer that well it's how many times have I used it. I've used SV once in the last six months. And that was because someone pointed it out to me. I use it regularly on my laptop....


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## Gromit (Jun 18, 2012)

When I used google navigation on Android it used to show you the street view of your destination when you'd arrived. 

That was a nice touch. 

No google navigation on iOS. I did mIss it at first. Though it used to drain my android battery like a mofo. 

My concern about these new map doodads is how much power and data are they going to gobble when Im not using or wanting 3D etc.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2012)

It isn't actually Apple's map system btw - it uses an open source one. Which means Apple cash and dev effort for them too.


----------



## Coffee (Jun 24, 2012)

Isn't there some rumors flying around that suggests the port sizes are to be changed on the iphone 5, making plugging them into current  docking stations etc a little difficult? 

Bit nasty if they're true!


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 24, 2012)

Don't stand in the way of innovation and progress! 

I'm sure there'll be a £25.00 adapter available.

And wasn't there supposed to be some kind of Euro-directive requiring all charges to be the same size


----------



## Maltin (Jun 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Been thinking about the streetview thing, the first question I always ask about feature removal is when was the last time I used it? If I can't answer that well it's how many times have I used it. I've used SV once in the last six months. And that was because someone pointed it out to me. I use it regularly on my laptop....


Seeing as I use my iPad for private browsing rather than my work laptop, I use street view on my iPad a lot when looking at maps. Would be a pain if they remove it and I have to turn on the laptop to look at places on maps fully. Hopefully they'll let you use streetview in Safari if they remove the google maps app.


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## Coffee (Jun 24, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> And wasn't there supposed to be some kind of Euro-directive requiring all charges to be the same size



Yeah but i think only nokia were listening.


----------



## editor (Jun 24, 2012)

Coffee said:


> Yeah but i think only nokia were listening.


Just about every Android phone you can buy uses a standard USB charger.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 24, 2012)

An adapter has been available for some time......http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD09


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## editor (Jun 24, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> An adapter has been available for some time......http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD09


That link doesn't work. How much does it cost?
It's shit having to lug about adapters though. It's been a real life saver being able to use friends chargers when I've been away from home.


----------



## Coffee (Jun 24, 2012)

editor said:


> Just about every Android phone you can buy uses a standard USB charger.



Exactly, they should of used the same one as Nokia! lol


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 24, 2012)

editor said:


> That link doesn't work. How much does it cost?
> It's shit having to lug about adapters though. It's been a real life saver being able to use friends chargers when I've been away from home.


£8 http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD099ZM/A

I've never felt disadvantaged by not being able to use a micro USB charger in all my years of owning i-devices.


----------



## editor (Jun 24, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I've never felt disadvantaged by not being able to use a micro USB charger in all my years of owning i-devices.


I suppose you think it's great that Apple use a non-standard proprietary charger that won't work with anything else.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 24, 2012)

editor said:


> I suppose you think it's great that Apple use a non-standard proprietary charger that won't work with anything else.


I have no opinion one way or the other. I just know that it's never bothered me.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 24, 2012)

I not sure the iP5 will have a mini-usb.

They've had the old connector for 10 years and they've been playing with the small form connector on the retina MBP, perhaps their cable department was feeling neglected. Third party suppliers will certainly capitalise on it.


----------



## grit (Jun 24, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I not sure the iP5 will have a mini-usb.
> 
> They've had the old connector for 10 years and they've been playing with the small form connector on the retina MBP, perhaps their cable department was feeling neglected. Third party suppliers will certainly capitalise on it.


 
I was under the impression that standardized mini usb chargers have come into EU law after the iPhone 4 was released?

edit: sorry just realized you posted the same thing a few posts up


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 24, 2012)

Looks like Google are working on an iOS map app: http://www.padgadget.com/2012/06/24/google-working-on-new-maps-app-for-ios/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Looks like Google are working on an iOS map app: http://www.padgadget.com/2012/06/24/google-working-on-new-maps-app-for-ios/



Great news! The more quality mapping apps there are the better, here's hoping Apple do the right thing and not ban it.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 25, 2012)

editor said:


> I suppose you think it's great that Apple use a non-standard proprietary charger that won't work with anything else.


 
The apple charger is a usb charger, charge anything.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2012)

Sunray said:


> The apple charger is a usb charger, charge anything.


 Except the actual connector won't work with anything else but Apple's products.


----------



## hiccup (Jun 25, 2012)

Saw ios6 on a (developer) mates phone at the weekend. The Facebook/Twitter integration looked really slick.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2012)

hiccup said:


> Saw ios6 on a (developer) mates phone at the weekend. The Facebook/Twitter integration looked really slick.



Yeah? How so?


----------



## paolo (Jun 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Except the actual connector won't work with anything else but Apple's products.


 
I use mine to charge other devices.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2012)

paolo said:


> I use mine to charge other devices.


How do you get the connector to fit your other devices then? Or do you mean you take another cable around with you, as well as Apple's proprietary one?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2012)

Today's big rumour doing the rounds is the new iPhone will have NFC. I guess this will be this generations Siri surprise?


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Today's big rumour doing the rounds is the new iPhone will have NFC. I guess this will be this generations Siri surprise?


Hardly a revelation if it does. NFC is already becoming very commonplace.


----------



## magneze (Jun 25, 2012)

I'd be more shocked if it didn't have NFC.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Hardly a revelation if it does. NFC is already becoming very commonplace.


 
Who said it'll be a revelation? 

It may be common place in the states but I've yet to meet anyone that uses it. In fact even those with this on their credit/debit cards don't really use it that much at all either. Reckon if Apple makes it central to it's marketing it'll really take off.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It may be common place in the states but I've yet to meet anyone that uses it. In fact even those with this on their credit/debit cards don't really use it that much at all either. Reckon if Apple makes it central to it's marketing it'll really take off.


It's already taking off without Apple's help, and there's _*tons*_ of phones already with NFC in multiple countries - and there's loads more coming through.

Look at this huge list: http://www.nfcworld.com/nfc-phones-list/#available


----------



## hiccup (Jun 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah? How so?


 You just pull/swipe down from the top of the screen and the options are there, across many apps.

Thought the maps looked pretty too, all textured. Didn't really play with them much though.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2012)

hiccup said:


> You just pull/swipe down from the top of the screen and the options are there, across many apps.


Sounds veh familiar


----------



## Sunray (Jun 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Except the actual connector won't work with anything else but Apple's products.


 
Thats not the point of the universal psu though is it, its primary function is to try to remove the need to supply PSU's with gadgets as they all have USB charging. If you have the correct cable you can charge anything from the Apple psu.

The Apple connector is actually much more sophisticated than a basic USB cable allows, having video, audio and other functions in it to allow for sophisticated docking solutions. Reducing it to basic USB, or changing it al all would be daft, just look at all the products that now use it, all the add ons are an added reason to buy a one of the phones. I for one do not want them to change it. Add a micro usb port if you like but that 30 pin should be here to stay, there are things I have my eye on that take the connector.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 26, 2012)

hiccup said:


> You just pull/swipe down from the top of the screen and the options are there, across many apps.
> 
> Thought the maps looked pretty too, all textured. Didn't really play with them much though.



Ah yeah the notification centre thing is pretty neat although I rarely post/tweet without linking...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 26, 2012)

Get ready to be disappointed sunray - it looks very much like the dock connector is going to change.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/0...t-time-for-apple-to-ditch-the-dock-connector/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 26, 2012)

Couldn't give a fuck personally, after ten years Apple changes a dock, not exactly the end of the world!


----------



## grit (Jun 26, 2012)

magneze said:


> I'd be more shocked if it didn't have NFC.


 
There is already an android app on the market for harvesting NFC details in proximity


----------



## Sunray (Jun 26, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Get ready to be disappointed sunray - it looks very much like the dock connector is going to change.
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/0...t-time-for-apple-to-ditch-the-dock-connector/


 
Not convinced by that.  I expect the new iphone to get bigger for a bigger display.

If you're use to an iPhone, the touch is like picking up a sheet of paper its ridiculously thin, so to throw out all the 3rd party accessories, an accessory list that most manufacturers would give their right arm for, for for the sake of what could be perhaps a few points of a mm would be one hell of a decision. 

It may happen, but I think its a really puzzling one if it does.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 27, 2012)

There have been multiple leaks of different parts, all pointing towards a 16:9 4" screen and the new dock connector. The phone is taller, but not wider.

Ditching a popular and widely-used connector is something Apple has done several times before. They did it again just now with the new Magsafe.


----------



## peterkro (Jun 27, 2012)

Crispy said:


> They did it again just now with the new Magsafe.


I'm probably missing something here but aren't magsafe connectors backwards and forwards compatible?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 27, 2012)

Not the one on the new macbooks air and pro. It's wider and thinner and you can't plug one into the other.


----------



## peterkro (Jun 27, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Not the one on the new macbooks air and pro. It's wider and thinner and you can't plug one into the other.


O.K. didn't realise that.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 27, 2012)

There is a £9 adapter available to plug the old Magsafe into the new machines.

Speaking of Apple discontinuing old connectors, I remember there being a terrible kerfuffle when they dropped the Woz-designed Apple Desktop Bus (ADB) after 13 years of use.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2012)

Crispy said:


> There have been multiple leaks of different parts, all pointing towards a 16:9 4" screen and the new dock connector. The phone is taller, but not wider.
> 
> Ditching a popular and widely-used connector is something Apple has done several times before. They did it again just now with the new Magsafe.


Like I keep saying, the 'leaks' are almost always total and utter bollocks: 


> High school student fools many with iPhone dock connector story
> Apple’s fake 9-Pin dock connector leak, work of high school student
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipad-iphone/news/?newsid=3374300


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> There is a £9 adapter available to plug the old Magsafe into the new machines.
> 
> Speaking of Apple discontinuing old connectors, I remember there being a terrible kerfuffle when they dropped the Woz-designed Apple Desktop Bus (ADB) after 13 years of use.


 
People get really weird about ports changing after a decade of use...never understood the big deal really, if you don't like change you really shouldn't be buying consumer tech!


----------



## grit (Aug 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> People get really weird about ports changing after a decade of use...never understood the big deal really, if you don't like change you really shouldn't be buying consumer tech!



I mourned the loss of PS2 for far longer than I should have. Watching a load of perfectly good hardware become obsolete to just introduce a new standard is irritating, however I concede sometimes its required for progress.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2012)

grit said:


> I mourned the loss of PS2 for far longer than I should have. Watching a load of perfectly good hardware become obsolete to just introduce a new standard is irritating, however I concede sometimes its required for progress.


 
I know someone that only stopped bitching about the death of floppy disks about three years ago. Let it go people...time marches on!


----------



## mattie (Aug 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> People get really weird about ports changing after a decade of use...never understood the big deal really, if you don't like change you really shouldn't be buying consumer tech!


 
What tech should the change-averse be buying then?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2012)

They shouldn't be buying any consumer tech if they don't like change.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 7, 2012)

Have to say the idea of a long ass iPhone doesn't sound good to me...


----------



## editor (Aug 31, 2012)

If this is image is real - and it's almost certainly not because these 'leak' sites are full of shit - that stretched iPhone look sure looks rubbish. I like the two tone back though.










http://www.bgr.com/2012/08/31/iphone-5-pictures-leaked-iphone-4-comparison/


----------



## editor (Aug 31, 2012)

The good news for fans of the stretchy candybar shape is that the extra long iPhone 5 is already available in Hng Kong, running Android.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 31, 2012)

Do you get hordes of proles included with the price, like the poster suggests?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2012)

The long form looks shite from the photos.


----------



## elbows (Aug 31, 2012)

One theory about the long iPhone is that its just one of a number of prototypes they've used to explore their screen options, and might not actually be whats in store. Despite being quite sure that a trend towards larger smartphone screens cant be ignored by Apple, Im more uncertain than ever about what possibilities Apple may go for, or when.

The track record of rumours is nowhere near as bad as some suggest, but even with a reasonable success rate that still leaves lots of stories that turn out not to be true in the end.


----------



## editor (Aug 31, 2012)

I'll be amazed if Apple release a phone that looks as crap as that long, unwieldy thing. I reckon the back styling might be close though, as that looks rather splendid.  

Any Apple-related 'rumour' or 'leaked photo' you see on the web is almost always - without fail - some made up shit for fanboys to click on and to earn the originating site lots of lovely AdSense revenue. The funny thing is, no matter how many times a site is proven to get it completely wrong, people keep on clickin'!


----------



## elbows (Aug 31, 2012)

editor said:


> Any Apple-related 'rumour' or 'leaked photo' you see on the web is almost always - without fail - some made up shit for fanboys to click on and to earn the originating site lots of lovely AdSense revenue. The funny thing is, no matter how many times a site is proven to get it completely wrong, people keep on clickin'!



Almost always and without fail are not completely compatible. Although the success rate of rumours is not exactly high, its nowhere near zero either, and the impression that all the rumours are wrong and bullshit is probably somewhat overblown by the tendency of all of the silliest rumours that were totally inaccurate to rise to the forefront of our minds when the term rumour is used.

I also know that the rumours are sometimes true because several product launches have been viewed as an anti-climax not just because of the spec, but because the spec and features had already been rumoured in advance.

And now one sites attempt to do some apple rumour accounting for a brief period last year: http://stupidapplerumors.com/news/2011/rumor-accounting

Im sure their methodology wasnt perfect, but for the period in question depending on exactly what was being measures, rumour accuracy rate was anywhere from 2% to 22%

Humans seem to like talking about rumours almost regardles of success rates anyway, but when you have a situation where there might be a 1 in 10 or 1 in 5 chance of the rumour being true its no surprise the phenomenon is sustainable despite the quantity of pure BS.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2012)

I reckon it's just a big decoy to flush out leakers and give something for fanbois and fandroids to rant about...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2012)

elbows said:


> Almost always and without fail are not completely compatible. Although the success rate of rumours is not exactly high, its nowhere near zero either, and the impression that all the rumours are wrong and bullshit is probably somewhat overblown by the tendency of all of the silliest rumours that were totally inaccurate to rise to the forefront of our minds when the term rumour is used.
> 
> I also know that the rumours are sometimes true because several product launches have been viewed as an anti-climax not just because of the spec, but because the spec and features had already been rumoured in advance.
> 
> ...



Indeed plenty of analysts and tech bloggers bitched that the 4S was a disappointment because they all saw it coming. Didn't stop your average consumer buying millions though...but this? It just looks crap. Too long...


----------



## elbows (Aug 31, 2012)

Im sort of surprised the long screen rumours didnt meet up with the old rumour about them getting rid of the physical button.


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 31, 2012)

Not liking the two-tone back.

These phone wars shenanigans are really putting me off wanting to upgrade on either platform


----------



## Sunray (Aug 31, 2012)

I doubt that Ives would make any of the above.

Rumors are that Sharp is having a few issues producing the screens as the spec is for very thin including the touch sensor.

Suggests they are going for iTouch levels of thin. Always makes me double take when I pick one up they are so so thin.

If you think about the iphone 4. the back glass is totally unnecessary, it works without it fitted, I tested it when I replaced it myself. The width of the metal is dominated by the buttons? If you remove them or make them part of the bezel then you can really attack the width.

If they get rid of the button and move the speaker to the very top. Gains you two inches of screen height in the same form factor. With just an inch extra width, massive difference to the display without making it huge or going to note sizes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2012)

I have to say the iPhone 4 design with itouch thinness would be very nice indeed!


----------



## Yata (Sep 2, 2012)

iPhone design cant be any better than it is with the 4S, theres a weird trend atm where phones are slowly going back to being brick sized monstrosities for the sake of bigger screens and more processing power or whatever (just get a tablet ffs!). I dunno who started it but Apple would do well to stick with whats good cause the fact they don't have Jobs anymore although it doesnt really make a difference, it probably will do to the media reviewing the phones if the next iPhone after his death is suddenly ugly as shit.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2012)

elbows said:


> Im sort of surprised the long screen rumours didnt meet up with the old rumour about them getting rid of the physical button.


Android's already done that - and proved that button-less front screens work very well.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 2, 2012)

Couldn't they just keep the same size as the iPhone 4 but make the screen edge to edge? Keeps the same footprint whilst maintaining a larger screen? The long iPhone looks damn awful.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2012)

Callum91 said:


> Couldn't they just keep the same size as the iPhone 4 but make the screen edge to edge? Keeps the same footprint whilst maintaining a larger screen? The long iPhone looks damn awful.


I suspect that's more likely to happen than the weird, stretched out thing that keeps on getting posted up, but the immense sales of the Galaxy S3 (and other large screen tablets) has proven that there is a real demand for displays substantially bigger than the iPhone's comparatively titchy offering.

Whether Apple decide to respond to that is another matter of course.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 2, 2012)

Callum91 said:


> Couldn't they just keep the same size as the iPhone 4 but make the screen edge to edge? Keeps the same footprint whilst maintaining a larger screen? The long iPhone looks damn awful.



Edge to edge screen would be far nicer than this off stretch limo effect.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 2, 2012)

Would also be a nice opportunity for them to ditch the physical home button too. A very slim iPhone with an edge to edge screen would be a sexy thing indeed. Simplistic.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 2, 2012)

I'd be good with them doing away with the physical home button too. Mine on my 4 is getting temperamental, which is annoying when you want to bring up the little 'active apps' bar.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 2, 2012)

There is a good reason to have a physical home button - it reassures users that, whatever the app does, there's a button that can take them home, which isn't dependent on the software and can't be overridden by bugs and crashes.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There is a good reason to have a physical home button - it reassures users that, whatever the app does, there's a button that can take them home, which isn't dependent on the software and can't be overridden by bugs and crashes.


Except it doesn't always work when the phone crashes, and it's another mechanical thing that can fail.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 2, 2012)

Doesn't matter. It's physical to make it conceptually separate from the software.

It will work unless the entire OS crashes btw as it's a very low-level command. Apps have a certain time to finish their business and close, and if they don't by that point e.g. if they've hung, they're kicked out anyway.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Doesn't matter. It's physical to make it conceptually separate from the software.


Not entirely sure what "conceptually separate" means, but in the real world, I've moved from having physical buttons to virtual ones and can't say I'm missing them.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 2, 2012)

Callum91 said:


> Would also be a nice opportunity for them to ditch the physical home button too. A very slim iPhone with an edge to edge screen would be a sexy thing indeed. Simplistic.



Indeed. On the iPad I rarely use it due to the excellent gesture controls. It's not needed anymore...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 2, 2012)




----------



## Maltin (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed. On the iPad I rarely use it due to the excellent gesture controls. It's not needed anymore...


What gesture controls? How do I get from safari to my apps on an iPad 2 without pressing that button? Or is this a new feature of the 3?


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 3, 2012)

five finger scrunch


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

Maltin said:


> What gesture controls? How do I get from safari to my apps on an iPad 2 without pressing that button? Or is this a new feature of the 3?



Four finger swipe up reveals your running apps. Four finger swipe left switches directly between running apps. Four finger and thumb screen pinch takes you back to the home screen. I rarely use the home button...The iPad has the most amazingly slick UX.


----------



## Maltin (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Four finger swipe up reveals your running apps. Four finger swipe left switches directly between running apps. Four finger and thumb screen pinch takes you back to the home screen. I rarely use the home button...The iPad has the most amazingly slick UX.


Thanks. The one to take you to the home screen seems quite flash and good. 

Moving Four fingers going upward or left seems a bit of an awkward action to me though. Much more comfortable and easier to press the home button twice. And for that matter, i'll probably stick to using the button to go to the home screen as well so I hope the home button stays.

ETA I've tried it a bit more and worked out you don't need to keep your fingers in a straight line which does seem more natural. However, I'm still not convinced its a better way of navigating.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

Fair enough, it felt intuitive the first time I used them, can't imagine going back to home button only navigation now...


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

This latest research shows that Android's larger screens have proved a huge hit with consumers, so it would suggest that Apple really has to follow suit and offer a bigger screen option. 


> Of all the Android devices that have been sold in the last three months, nearly one-third (29%) of them had a screen size of over 4.5 inches, with large-screened devices from Samsung, HTC, LG (pictured), Huawei and more. Apple’s current iPhone has a screen of 3.5 inches....
> 
> “It is interesting to look at the impact a larger screen size has on how consumers use their smartphones, particularly as the line between tablets and smartphones becomes more blurred,” analyst Dominic Sunnebo writes.
> 
> ...


----------



## xenon (Sep 4, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed. On the iPad I rarely use it due to the excellent gesture controls. It's not needed anymore...



It is if you use Voiceover...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

xenon said:


> It is if you use Voiceover...



VoiceOver?


----------



## xenon (Sep 4, 2012)

Yep. The screenreader. For example, the jestures work differently with it switched on but when the screen's locked, you press the home key, it talks and you unlock the screen with a double tap

With no physical button to unlock the screen, back track out of apps that don't work, aren't accessable, for blind / partially sighted users, the I*s would become much less useable. I appreciate what peple are saying by removing it, you have more screen realestate. I don't think I'm the only one who still wants physical home button somewhere and volume controls.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

I don't think physical volume controls are going anywhere, but with 'virtual' buttons offering tactile feedback you don't really need a physical home button, IMO. They're in the same physical place on the phone's fascia, so they shouldn't be any harder to use for blind / partially sighted users.


----------



## Yata (Sep 4, 2012)

people expect non-iphones to be ugly and oversized, just like they dont care what a pc case looks like (to an extent) but apple customers expect style over substance and making iphone 5 into the s3's wannabe little brother will see a reduce in sales im sure all the reviewers are itching to point out a lack of style post-Jobs which will also kill it. they should be very careful about any changes to the phone itself it being the first proper post-jobs iphone (even though he had input) and just focus on adding one tiny upgrade and a new ios like they usually do. also this way my 3gs wont seem so out of date


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

Yata said:


> people expect non-iphones to be ugly and oversized


No they don't. That's why well designed and attractive phones like the Galaxy S3 have been outselling the iPhone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

xenon said:


> Yep. The screenreader. For example, the jestures work differently with it switched on but when the screen's locked, you press the home key, it talks and you unlock the screen with a double tap
> 
> With no physical button to unlock the screen, back track out of apps that don't work, aren't accessable, for blind / partially sighted users, the I*s would become much less useable. I appreciate what peple are saying by removing it, you have more screen realestate. I don't think I'm the only one who still wants physical home button somewhere and volume controls.



Ah right I didn't know that, well that's the strongest argument I've seen for keeping it so far...


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

Hilariously  cheeky and audacious!






> Chinese Clone Company Will Sue Apple Over iPhone 5 Design
> 
> The clone manufacturer who released an iPhone 5 knock-off last week now says that they will sue Apple if they release the real iPhone 5 in China. Surreal? Hilarious? Pathetic? All of the above.
> 
> Hong Kong-based GooPhone, who designed their cheapo Android phone after the alleged Apple iPhone 5 parts leaked during the last few months, has a very rational argument: they have released their clone first, so everything that comes after that must be a copy, even if they actually made their phone after the parts of a phone that hasn't been released yet but that everyone believes is the real thing.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

Squeak!​
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/04/apple-announces-presumed-iphone-5-launch-event-for-september-12t/​


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

That's a very odd invite, they've basically given the punch line away before the event. Terrible marketing and further proof they are doomed now Jobs is dead.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

That graphic is well shit.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Squeak!​


​Beat me to it. 
I love the artwork!

seemingly it's going to be called '5'?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

The graphic is shit, the strap isn't sitting right on the 12.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> ​Beat me to it.
> I love the artwork!
> 
> seemingly it's going to be called '5'?



Either that or they have five product updates (iPhone, iOS, iPod nano, iPod touch & Apple TV player)?


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 4, 2012)

it's the iPhones's 5th anniversary too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> it's the iPhones's 5th anniversary too.



Oh yeah, dunno what that means but yeah...


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 4, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> seemingly it's going to be called '5'?


Or they have just fucked up the shadow of the 2 

I'm interested to see the new phone, my 3gs is well overdue for an upgrade now.  Although I'm tempted to wait and see if anything comes of the mini ipad rumour, something like that might be more useful to me than a phone.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Except it doesn't always work when the phone crashes, and it's another mechanical thing that can fail.


 
No, it will always work, just at its most primitive home+power will always partial hard reset the phone.  Not that I've ever needed to restart my phone in the last two years. Never ever crashed, the most reliable high tech gadget I've ever owned.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

Sunray said:


> No, it will always work, just at its most primitive home+power will always partial hard reset the phone. Not that I've ever needed to restart my phone in the last two years. Never ever crashed, the most reliable high tech gadget I've ever owned.


 
I've had one freeze on my 4S in a year. One. Literally never owned anything gadget with that success rate when it comes to crashes. Crazy really...only really thought about that having seen your post.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

Sunray said:


> No, it will always work, just at its most primitive home+power will always partial hard reset the phone.


Err, nope. It froze on me once and there's ample evidence on the web of it not working for others.

In fact, it's a 'top ten annoyance' on this site: http://farend.net/gadgets/top-10-iphone-annoyances-and-how-to-fix-them/


----------



## Sunray (Sep 4, 2012)

Well obviously, if it actually stops working coz like me you got it wet, then yeah, but that combo is hard wired into the reset circuit of the phone, unrelated to the software of the phone, otherwise you'd have no way of restarting a bricked phone.

Never froze once in the 2 years I owned it, even when I got it stupidly wet for the second time. That did for it really, though it still worked, I got another for 119 part exchange at the Apple shop.


----------



## Yata (Sep 5, 2012)

editor said:


> No they don't. That's why well designed and attractive phones like the Galaxy S3 have been outselling the iPhone.


Thats cause nobodys seen the iPhone 5 yet, all the Star Trek fans already went out and got their oversized planet scanners the real trend setters are holding out... I have faith.


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

Yata said:


> Thats cause nobodys seen the iPhone 5 yet, all the Star Trek fans already went out and got their oversized planet scanners the real trend setters are holding out... I have faith.


What the fuck are you on about?


----------



## Yata (Sep 5, 2012)

editor said:


> What the fuck are you on about?


I get that a lot

The S3 is ugly, over sized and used mostly by Captain Kirk to scan the surface of foreign planets.
The iPhone 5 will be a sexy beast of a phone and based on that alone will outsell the S3, so long as they don't mess with the size. I bet phone sales on a whole are down at the minute as the world waits for the only mobile on the market that matters.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 5, 2012)

Thank god they're releasing the fucking thing at last. It's like they were trying to see how many bollocks rumours and articles they could generate about it _without saying anything at all_.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 5, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Thank god they're releasing the fucking thing at last. It's like they were trying to see how many bollocks rumours and articles they could generate about it _without saying anything at all_.


7 more days of bollocks to go! HELL YES.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 5, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Thank god they're releasing the fucking thing at last. It's like they were trying to see how many bollocks rumours and articles they could generate about it _without saying anything at all_.



All that will happen is all the hype will ramp up for the iPad mini or tv...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 5, 2012)

which won't happen
which makes it worse, because the bollocks _never stops_ then


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Thank god they're releasing the fucking thing at last. It's like they were trying to see how many bollocks rumours and articles they could generate about it _without saying anything at all_.


Some self declared "expert" has confidently declared that the iPhone will sell 10 million in the first week, based on, err, well, a wild guess. Naturally, the (non) story has been immediately carried by a ton of other blogs.

Another fabulous non story is the 'new packaging' one which is clearly a load of bollocks - but a zillion fanboy blogs have covered that too. 

It's all a bit weird to be honest.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Some self declared "expert" has confidently declared that the iPhone will sell 10 million in the first week, based on, err, well, a wild guess. Naturally, the (non) story has been immediately carried by a ton of other blogs.


Are you seriously suggesting that people shouldn't post up wildly spurious 'sales projections'?


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that people shouldn't post up wildly spurious 'sales projections'?


It's one thing to make up the figures and stick them up on our own website. It's quite another thing to present yourself as an expert when you're conjuring up the aforementioned made up figures and then have those fantasy figures reproduced over a slew of tech sites and blogs, all of whom seem keen to present that fanciful wild speculation as a 'news' story.

Edit to add: I'm guessing by the tone of your question that you've got some smartypants, cross-thread, editor-crushing 'point' to be made here. I was rather hoping we'd moved on from all that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 5, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> which won't happen
> which makes it worse, because the bollocks _never stops_ then



Welcome to the hyper media age, where everyone with a Twitter account is a pundit!


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

Apparently the made up 'leaked' battery fits the made up new 'leaked' iPhone case exactly. Which is surely great news all round.


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

Quick straw poll: who thinks the new iPhone/iPhone 5 will be like this thing (or thereabouts):







I say no because surely Apple wouldn't release a strange stretchy thing such as this (although I still like the back design!).

It's really not much of an attractive design to my eyes, and al the previous iPhones have been lookers.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 5, 2012)

editor said:


> It's one thing to make up the figures and stick them up on our own website. It's quite another thing to present yourself as an expert when you're conjuring up the aforementioned made up figures and then have those fantasy figures reproduced over a slew of tech sites and blogs, all of whom seem keen to present that fanciful wild speculation as a 'news' story.


tbf, the most 'expert' projections I've seen to date (of the ones posted on these forums, at least) have taken one of two models:

i) carry on every line exactly at the rate it's going at now, forever; or
ii) carry on every line exactly at the rate it's going at now, for about 6 months, then flatten it off and continue in a straight line for the next 4yrs.

tbf, model i) is usually applied to a single-line graph. Like, sales of THIS phone or THIS OS, and why it will've sold ten billion in three months' time.

Insofar as anything is 'reproduced over a slew of tech sites and blogs,' do they get much more advanced than that? The ones I've seen on here - again, appreciating that that is a limited sample - don't seem to be much better than wild speculation. Wild speculation with a ruler, perhaps.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 5, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> tbf, the most 'expert' projections I've seen to date (of the ones posted on these forums, at least) have taken one of two models:
> 
> i) carry on every line exactly at the rate it's going at now, forever; or
> ii) carry on every line exactly at the rate it's going at now, for about 6 months, then flatten it off and continue in a straight line for the next 4yrs.
> ...



People use all kinds of tactics to raise traffic, repeating rumours, speculation and yes Google search ranking loving headlines and content. Anyone who's serious about tech blogging is playing the same game at the end of the day...


----------



## magneze (Sep 5, 2012)

Best mash article for a while:


> APPLE’S latest iPhone will feature shape-shifting technology and can become anything from a mountain to a large pig.
> The announcement explains wildly inconsistent online photos – of everything from a conventional smartphone, to a fleshy green fruit and a flock of geese – all purporting to show the device.
> An Apple spokesman said: “All the images are genuine, even the one where it looks like a a busload of Scouts.
> “Thanks to cutting-edge technology smashing the laws of physics, the iPhone 5 will constantly shift on a molecular level – becoming big things, small things, inanimate objects and animals.
> ...


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...ne-5-to-constantly-change-shape-2012090439789


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyone who's serious about tech blogging is playing the same game at the end of the day...


I guess I can't be "serious" about it then.

Either that, or I'm more concerned with covering real stories rather than endlessly repeating made up iPhone rubbish just to increase my traffic.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Quick straw poll: who thinks the new iPhone/iPhone 5 will be like this thing (or thereabouts):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think it'll be the stretch but the high number of alleged leaks suggest make it hard to see any other device form coming from them. Either way it'll sell millions (I don't think 10 million is really that far fetched tbh)...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 5, 2012)

editor said:


> I guess I can't be "serious" about it then.
> 
> Either that, or I'm more concerned with covering real stories rather than endlessly repeating made up iPhone rubbish just to increase my traffic.



Real stories like complaining the iPhone came in white then not when Samsung released a white phone?


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Real stories like complaining the iPhone came in white then not when Samsung released a white phone?


Please stop this nonsense.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 5, 2012)

editor said:


> Please stop this nonsense.



Seriously, we can refer to anything that's happened in the past now without you trying to turn in to an attack? You're fucking losing it fella!


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Seriously, we can refer to anything that's happened in the past now without you trying to turn in to an attack? You're fucking losing it fella!


You're trying to score points and start an argument by misrepresenting a single article I wrote many years ago on a different website. It's totally irrelevant, it's disruptive and it's got nothing to do with this thread so I'm not going to engage with you.

Please stop this.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 5, 2012)

They will sell 10 million, but perhaps not in week one.

I Hope it's something other than than that stretched-limo type thing with the gaudy backplate.

And these days I tend to avoid page-bait as much as possible.

eta. spelling correction.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 5, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> They will sell 10 million, but perhaps not in week one.
> 
> I Hope it's something other than than that stretched-limo type thing with the gaudy backplate.
> 
> And these days I tend to avoid page-bate as much as possible.


 
These days it seems almost all 'news' is page bait. Really not feeling that stretch limo look either...I guess we'll find out in a week.


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I Hope it's something other than than that stretched-limo type thing with the gaudy backplate.


I don't think Apple can have lost their design marbles so much as to release a phone that looks like that weird stretchy thing.

I don't like the company's ethics or business practices much, but their design has always been second to none.


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2012)

10/10 for effort in this video.  I'm more convinced then ever that this can't be the real new iPhone because it looks really shit.


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> They will sell 10 million, but perhaps not in week one.


It'll easily reach sales past 10 million, although who knows what the time frame will be.

I guess if they come up with a real killer new product then the high-fiving queues will assemble again en masse and make for a bumper launch, but if it's another incremental improvement (which I suspect it will be, given how the mobile market has matured), then maybe it'll be more of a slow burning big seller.

Either way, it's going to be one of the most popular phones of the year by miles, given the loyalty of the Apple fan base.

By way of comparison, Samsung has just revealed that it's shifted a rather staggering 20 million Galaxy SIIIs in 100 days.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 6, 2012)

Well each one pisses over the sales of the previous one in their first weekend. Didn't the 4S sell over 4 million in its first 48 hours? Not far fetched to think the new one could reach near 10 million in its first weekend...


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2012)

Some of these fanboy writers are really getting carried away with the pre-launch hype, and are suffering the effects of the Reality Distortion Field. 

Exhibit A: 


> Now, new high-quality images have been published by cell phone repair shop iResQ highlighting j*ust how remarkably thin the next-generation iPhone will be compared to the current iPhone 4S*


So let's see that remarkable decrease in thinness:





So they've taken the glass off the back and it's a tiny bit slimmer. 

(No that it's likely to be the actual phone anyway)

http://www.bgr.com/2012/09/06/iphone-5-photos-iphone-4s-comparison/


----------



## magneze (Sep 6, 2012)

I hope it's round or in the shape of a raised middle finger.


----------



## Dr Jon (Sep 8, 2012)

> THOUSANDS of students in an east China city are being forced to work at a Foxconn plant after classes were suspended at the beginning of the new semester, it has been revealed.
> 
> Students from Huai'an in Jiangsu Province were driven to a factory in the city run by Taiwan's Foxconn Technology Company after the plant couldn't find sufficient workers for the production of Apple's much-anticipated *iPhone 5*, they said in online posts.


link


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2012)

That's utterly disgraceful.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

Dr Jon said:


> link



Outrageous but as this is an industry wide it's not going away while the media focus on one company...


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Outrageous but as this is an industry wide it's not going away while the media focus on one company...


So you have several other recent examples of students being pulled from their classes to facilitate the launch of a new big name product, yes?


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 8, 2012)

as long as IOS6 doesn't kill battery life, I'm looking forward to it. Mountain LION. You wanker. Early 2012 MBP now lasts about 2.5 hours on battery.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 8, 2012)

I totally forgot about IOS6, that will be interesting.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> as long as IOS6 doesn't kill battery life, I'm looking forward to it. Mountain LION. You wanker. Early 2012 MBP now lasts about 2.5 hours on battery.



That's weird my 2010 MBP hasn't seen any battery issues at all. But I agree
iOS6 not killing battery life would be a very good thing indeed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I totally forgot about IOS6, that will be interesting.



Only a week away it seems...


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 8, 2012)

editor said:


> That's utterly disgraceful.


Some have now gone back to collage.


> Local teachers and education officials said the internships were a compulsory course for students to experience working conditions and promote individual ability.


link

Thank fuck our government wouldn't force this kind of shit onto our youth.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Some have now gone back to collage.


It's still pretty fucking awful. Imagine being hoiked out of your studies and being made to take part in 'compulsory internships', with the express aim of manufacturing goods to help a stinking rich foreign company meet consumer demand in far flung lands.



> The city government issued the statement after it was reported that thousands of students were driven to a factory run by Taiwan's Foxconn Technology Company since the plant couldn't find sufficient workers for the production of Apple's much-anticipated iPhone 5.
> 
> Students accused the local government of forcing schools to send massive labor to Foxconn, Apple's main contract manufacturer, in an attempt to gain favor with the company which has helped boost the local GDP.
> 
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 8, 2012)

There's a Tory sitting somewhere reading that and thinking "what a jolly good idea".


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2012)

Imagine a world where students are allowed to finish their studies in peace, and consumers in the west have to wait a few more weeks for the latest cool iGadget.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 8, 2012)

I don't know if this has been posted already,Apple have been granted a patent for software to turn off various things on iPhones in a particular area.Now this could be a good thing,stopping people using phones in cinemas,planes etc.However it could also be used by plod to turn off streaming video from protests etc which is where the problem lies.Although it's news just now because of the patent enterprise phone networks have had the ability to do this for some time:

http://www.zdnet.com/apple-patent-could-remotely-disable-protesters-phone-cameras-7000003640/


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 8, 2012)

Something similar was mentioned last year with regards to turning off iPhones at pop concerts - I imagine Apple apply for all sorts of patents, doen't necessarily mean they will see the light of day.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2012)

I'd like a technology that automatically fires missiles at view-blocking iPads (or similar) being held aloft at any kind of gig/public event.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 9, 2012)

editor said:


> I'd like a technology that automatically fires missiles at view-blocking iPads (or similar) being held aloft at any kind of gig/public event.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Something similar was mentioned last year with regards to turning off iPhones at pop concerts - I imagine Apple apply for all sorts of patents, doen't necessarily mean they will see the light of day.



I thought all companies had the ability to lock phones remotely already. If you have to log in to iCloud to lock your phone etc why couldn't Apple be able to do the same?


----------



## gabi (Sep 10, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I thought all companies had the ability to lock phones remotely already. If you have to log in to iCloud to lock your phone etc why couldn't Apple be able to do the same?


 
Forgive my ignorance, but do Apple's competitors have something similar to iCloud and 'Find my phone'?

I find this feature both handy and creepy. But I thought it was an Apple thing only.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I thought all companies had the ability to lock phones remotely already. If you have to log in to iCloud to lock your phone etc why couldn't Apple be able to do the same?


Why should the _manufacturer_ of my phone be able to turn it off whenever they fancy?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Why should the _manufacturer_ of my phone be able to turn it off whenever they fancy?


 
So that you can tell them to, should your phone be lost or stolen.
The fact that they are able to, does not mean that they should, of course.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> So that you can tell them to, should your phone be lost or stolen.
> The fact that they are able to, does not mean that they should, of course.


It's nice to have the option to do so - on Android there's several third party apps you can install that do a great job of tracking your phone if it gets stolen. 

But having it built in and controlled by the manufacturer? You're 'aving a laugh!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 10, 2012)

EDIT: Waste of my fucking time


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Some people like the all-in-one design approach. Some don't.


That's not really the issue here, IMO. It's whether folks thinks it's OK for the _phone manufacturer_ to have the ability to turn your phone off at a concert or whatever without your permission.


----------



## magneze (Sep 10, 2012)

Cars have had this sort of thing integrated for years, especially sports cars.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 10, 2012)

EDIT: Waste of my fucking time


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Microsoft have the _ability_ to utterly wipe your computer with a malicious update....


That's kind of stretching it a bit, don't you think?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 10, 2012)

This is exactly the sort of "argument" I didn't want to have after my holiday. As you were, gents.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> This is exactly the sort of "argument" I didn't want to have after my holiday. As you were, gents.


Yet it was you who brought up such a specious claim in the first place. Madness, I tell ye! Madness!


----------



## magneze (Sep 10, 2012)

Hmmm, should a random third party app developer be able to turn off my phone and/or track it?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

magneze said:


> Hmmm, should a random third party app developer be able to turn off my phone and/or track it?


If you've installed the app to do that function and specifically given them the necessary permissions, I'm not sure what you'd have to object about.

Of course, if they started turning off your phone on their own whims, that would be a different matter, as would them tracking you without you electing to allow them to do so.


----------



## magneze (Sep 10, 2012)

editor said:


> If you've installed the app to do that function and specifically given them the necessary permissions, I'm not sure what you'd have to object about.
> 
> Of course, if they started turning off your phone on their own whims, that would be a different matter, as would them tracking you without you electing to allow them to do so.


I agree and all this seems to apply to a phone manufacturer too.


----------



## gabi (Sep 10, 2012)

editor said:


> If you've installed the app to do that function and specifically given them the necessary permissions, I'm not sure what you'd have to object about.


 
iCloud's not automatic afaik. You need to activate it. Just like an app.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Thing is, we've all given up a ton of privacy just by owning a smartphone. When I was a kid, I would have been aghast at the thought of carrying something around that lets The Man track your every perambulation.


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2012)

The rumour geeks have noticed that the banner on the building that will be used for the Apple announcement on Wednesday features icons that are massively stretched in the vertical direction. This seems to add a little more weight to the rumours that the iPhone 5 will be taller.  Yes this is an absurd level of speculation but as some people here seemed rather unconvinced by the rumours I thought I would throw it out there.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/09/yerba-buena-stretched-icon/

Personally I'm not very excited by the iPhone 5, I'm more interested in how well received Windows 8 phones & tablets are and whether there will be an iPad mini, but in the meantime I suppose I'm mildly interested in what screen resolution this phone ends up with, mostly from a development point of view.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

elbows said:


> The rumour geeks have noticed that the banner on the building that will be used for the Apple announcement on Wednesday features icons that are massively stretched in the vertical direction.


They're building an iRocketShip. The new iPhone will be 120m high and will be capable of reaching the Moon.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> iCloud's not automatic afaik. You need to activate it. Just like an app.



Yup and you can configure it on application type and device case by case too. Plus no one is forcing you to use it, I know plenty of people with iPhones and iPads who never use iCloud.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

elbows said:


> The rumour geeks have noticed that the banner on the building that will be used for the Apple announcement on Wednesday features icons that are massively stretched in the vertical direction. This seems to add a little more weight to the rumours that the iPhone 5 will be taller.  Yes this is an absurd level of speculation but as some people here seemed rather unconvinced by the rumours I thought I would throw it out there.
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/09/yerba-buena-stretched-icon/
> 
> Personally I'm not very excited by the iPhone 5, I'm more interested in how well received Windows 8 phones & tablets are and whether there will be an iPad mini, but in the meantime I suppose I'm mildly interested in what screen resolution this phone ends up with, mostly from a development point of view.



Oh man some of the levels of interpretation over this stuff is amusing! Didn't they do the same thing last year and the designs had nothing to do with Siri..?


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 10, 2012)

editor said:


> They're building an iRocketShip. The new iPhone will be 120m high and will be capable of reaching the Moon.


Only if you subscribe to iMoon and buy a spacesuit with the new special dock connector 

A bigger screen will be useful (to me at least) and, as you said earlier, their design is usually great.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

The level of pre-announcement bullshit and hype currently being spewed out by fanboy blogs and supposedly sensible tech sites is frankly ridiculous.

I've certainly learnt what you need to do if you want to attract the maximum amount of ad-earning traffic to your site, but posting up a stream of made-up rumours as fact really isn't my bag.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 10, 2012)

wirefresh hardly ever has Apple news let alone rumour or speculation


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> wirefresh hardly ever has Apple news let alone rumour or speculation


Seems pointless covering stories that have been posted up a million times elsewhere and I don't bother with all the made up stuff or the gushing nonsense.

That said, I do cover new releases but could use someone to pen some of the more fact-based Apple related stories.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

For the record, Wirefresh currently has 327 Apple-related stories, compared to 97 for Blackberry and 298 for Google. I would welcome more Apple-related factual articles though, so if anyone wants to review iOS apps or whatever, feel free to contribute!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

Nice. How many are there for Android?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> wirefresh hardly ever has Apple news let alone rumour or speculation



Have you ever read their Apple posts, it's so slanted you'd get more objective journalism from the Daily Mail taking about immigration!


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm a fan of wirefresh and read it most days, it's just not my first port of call for breaking Apple news


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have you ever read their Apple posts, it's so slanted you'd get more objective journalism from the Daily Mail taking about immigration!


Please stop these kind of nasty attacks.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I'm a fan of wirefresh and read it most days, it's just not my first port of call for breaking Apple news


Glad to have you onboard as a reader!

I would genuinely like more Apple-related posts, so if you fancy reviewing something...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I'm a fan of wirefresh and read it most days, it's just not my first port of call for breaking Apple news


 
With nearly a 1000 posts on Google I'm not surprised.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Please stop these kind of nasty attacks.


 
Get a grip, it's not an nasty attack to allege you're level of objectivity is no different to the Daily Mail, one only has to read Wirefresh to see that. You have a Rupert Murdoch approach to tech blogging, it's just a fact.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2012)

Anyway, Ed's sensitive soul complaints aside, for those who like this type of thing here's the wallpaper based on this weeks event venue dressing:







Taken from the always sensible MacStories blog.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 11, 2012)

I am mostly looking forward to having a functional phone again, irrespective of its height, colour, wibbles, and / or doodads.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> I am mostly looking forward to having a functional phone again, irrespective of its height, colour, wibbles, and / or doodads.


What's wrong with your current one?


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Get a grip, it's not an nasty attack to allege you're level of objectivity is no different to the Daily Mail, one only has to read Wirefresh to see that. You have a Rupert Murdoch approach to tech blogging, it's just a fact.


Reading another of your nasty, spiteful, cowardly critiques - this time about my professional journalistic skills on another site - is a bit like being mauled by a toothless puppy.

Please stop these personal attacks. They are unnecessary, disruptive and only help perpetuate the unpleasant atmosphere that can be found in this forum. This thread is about the iPhone 5/iOS6. Please keep to that topic or, even, better take up my oft-repeated offer that we should ignore each other's posts from now on.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> What's wrong with your current one?


How long've you got?

The back no longer attaches. The battery falls out. It'll stay on standby for *reasonably* long periods of time, but as soon as I put anything much through the processor it'll go through a boot loop (by 'anything much,' I mean - e.g. - "trying to log in to Urban using the only browser window that's open," using it as a wifi hotspot, or opening any message chain longer than 50 or so messages). Once it starts going into a boot loop, I need to remove the battery and let it sit for about 5-10 mins before starting it up again, or else it'll go into a boot loop again.

I've tried assorted hard resets, reinstalls of Android, restores to factory settings, memory wipes, and that kind of reboot where you hold the volume key down.

I've tried the various solutions I found by googling 'HTC desire boot loop,' as it seems to be a not-unknown problem.

It's also got progressively worse, so's - tbh - its only realistic function is receiving messages and making calls, and as if I actually *needed* a phone seriously atm, I'd be far better off just plugging the SIM into the £5 Erikson (IIRC) handset I got last time my own handset got nicked.

The combination of 'battery cover falls off' and 'need to take the battery out for 5 mins' means that it's, effectively, non-mobile. In the sense that if I take it out with anything on it to keep the battery cover on, then I'll need to take it off again as soon as it (inevitably) goes into a boot loop.

If I don't take it out with anything to keep the battery cover on, then the battery falls out anyway, meaning I won't receive the calls I wouldn't've received anyway, anyway.

So, yeah. Long story short, I'm looking forward to having a smartphone that works again


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

I think the new iPhone *has* be 4G otherwise who's going to queue up for a hugely expensive phone sporting yesterday's technology?

(*obviously a rhetoric question as some Apple fans would queue up for an Apple branded turnip)


----------



## magneze (Sep 11, 2012)

Yeah it'll have 4G I reckon, but it appears that you will have to pay more to use it if you're on Orange or T-Mobile - you won't automatically get a speed increase. 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/11/ee_brand/


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

4G is a messy area, the different frequencies being used might make UK Apple iPhone 4G rollout far less than ideal. Ideally I'm sure Apple would love to capitalise on the EE rollout to major cities, and perhaps they will, but I would not be completely aghast if the UK was left without a 4G iPhone for another year. Given the stiff competition from the likes of the Samsung SIII its not hard to argue that Apple would be very stupid to do this, but I dont rule it out, they've been conservative and tardy in some areas before.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

There's a chance that the 4G rollout will get held up in the courts in the UK, but with details of the benefits of 4G speeds now hitting the mainstream news, I think some punters may think twice about shelling out a hefty wad for their new high end phone if it doesn't have 4G support - even if 4G hasn't fully arrived yet.

I can't imagine me buying a new smartphone now without 4G support (although I will wait and see how it all pans out for a bit).


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

I can imagine having one last non-4G smartphone since I dont live in a city. But as I still have no income 4G may be old news by the next time I upgrade.


----------



## magneze (Sep 11, 2012)

After the 3G fiasco, I will want to see actual real evidence that 4G is usefully faster than 3G too. 3G was not all it cracked up to be.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

magneze said:


> After the 3G fiasco, I will want to see actual real evidence that 4G is usefully faster than 3G too. 3G was not all it cracked up to be.


The evidence does seem pretty persuasive - and the live test on the BBC News (with an iPhone versus a 4G Galaxy S3) certainly delivered.

It's not enough of a whoppee to make me want to switch to Everything Everyone Everywhere or whatever they're called. mind.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> It's not enough of a whoppee to make me want to switch to Everything Everyone Everywhere or whatever they're called. mind.


 
Its Orange & T-Mobile rebranded, in fact double-rebranded as they are just going with the abbreviation EE from now on.


----------



## pesh (Sep 11, 2012)

4G sounds like an absolute must have for everybody to be honest, who wouldn't want to use their 500-750Mb monthly data allowance in under 2 minutes...


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

pesh said:


> 4G sounds like an absolute must have for everybody to be honest, who wouldn't want to use their 500-750Mb monthly data allowance in under 2 minutes...


I'm on unlimited data for £10 a month


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

Here's what the new iPhone SIMs look like. You need tweezers to handle them. 







http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47443/vodafone-nano-sim-iphone-5-ready


----------



## pesh (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm on unlimited data for £10 a month


 
yep, i'm paying £15 for unlimited data, texts and 1000 minutes on o2 and paid full price for my last phone offline, but a lot of people arn't... i guess due to most companies offering high end handsets for free / heavily subsidised...

a lot of the people i know would rather not pay several hundred quid up front for unlimited data...

and still a lot of the so called 'unlimited data' packages have a fair use policy of a few Gb that you could iron out in an hour or 2...

the networks are going to have to bundle a lot of data into their packages to make it worth having.

ETA, you with GiffGaff? was considering them but they seem to be considering stopping the unlimited data packages, at least on the cheap tariffs...

http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Blog/Unlimited-Mobile-Internet-Usage-Consultation/ba-p/5917462


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

The Guardian's fan boy writer is joining in with the pointless non-news iPhone5 speculation, and gets rightly roasted in the comments section:

 iPhone 5 launch: ten things I'd like to see - and six I don't expect

He basically describes an Android phone, btw.


----------



## paolo (Sep 11, 2012)

Hey pesh, is that a standard deal you got, or something special they offered you personally?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2012)

pesh said:


> 4G sounds like an absolute must have for everybody to be honest, who wouldn't want to use their 500-750Mb monthly data allowance in under 2 minutes...


 
Im still on the original iphone plan, unlimited data....

It seems my personal hotspot works at no extra cost too..... if o2 demand I come off it to get a new iphone, Ill be jumping ship to 3 mobile in seconds.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2012)

pesh said:


> yep, i'm paying £15 for unlimited data, texts and 1000 minutes on o2 and paid full price for my last phone offline, but a lot of people arn't... i guess due to most companies offering high end handsets for free / heavily subsidised...
> 
> a lot of the people i know would rather not pay several hundred quid up front for unlimited data...
> 
> ...


 
If you go onto giffgaff kiss goodbye to personal hotspot, MMS, and vis voicemail too.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> If you go onto giffgaff kiss goodbye to personal hotspot, MMS, and vis voicemail too.


Eh?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Eh?


 
Giffgaff didnt support visual voicemail, personal hotspot or MMS when I looked. My housemate has a giffgaff sim in an iphone and none of that works (but he doesnt use it anyway). Apparently its because they dont have an official carrier file or something.

I dont think imessage works for him too.


----------



## pesh (Sep 11, 2012)

paolo said:


> Hey pesh, is that a standard deal you got, or something special they offered you personally?


 
that was the rolling contract they offered after i finished my original iphone 3g contract about 5 years ago and before they got all pissy about unlimited data... i don't think they still offer it and these days if you upgrade your phone they automatically put you on a new contract with data limits etc...

so fuck that.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 11, 2012)

No visual voicemail on networks that aren't O2 (proper O2, GG doesn't count)
GG doesn't support tethering (jailbreak only)
MMS works on GG iphones.

sim: your friend probably needs to update his MMS settings: http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Learn-giffgaff-Top-Tips/How-to-giffgaff-an-iPhone/td-p/1807


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Giffgaff didnt support visual voicemail, personal hotspot or MMS when I looked. My housemate has a giffgaff sim in an iphone and none of that works (but he doesnt use it anyway). Apparently its because they dont have an official carrier file or something.
> 
> I dont think imessage works for him too.


Actually, you're right - I forgot about the restrictions you get if you use an iPhone on Giffgaff.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

pesh said:


> 4G sounds like an absolute must have for everybody to be honest, who wouldn't want to use their 500-750Mb monthly data allowance in under 2 minutes...



And you'll burn through that in no time with all the retina images, bigger app files an higher quality video that those speeds allow easy access too...unlimited FTW!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Actually, you're right - I forgot about the restrictions you get if you use an iPhone on Giffgaff.


 
I could cope without some of it, but I use visual voicemail a lot, and MMS all the ruddy time.

I dont think vis voicemail works on 3 mobile either. But I wouldnt stay on o2 if they tried to force me off unlimited data out of principle.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> No visual voicemail on networks that aren't O2 (proper O2, GG doesn't count)
> GG doesn't support tethering (jailbreak only)
> MMS works on GG iphones.
> 
> sim: your friend probably needs to update his MMS settings: http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Learn-giffgaff-Top-Tips/How-to-giffgaff-an-iPhone/td-p/1807



Ah the lack of tethering is a bit shit. Haven't had visual voicemail in a few years and don't really miss it tbh...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I could cope without some of it, but I use visual voicemail a lot, and MMS all the ruddy time.
> 
> I dont think vis voicemail works on 3 mobile either. But I wouldnt stay on o2 if they tried to force me off unlimited data out of principle.



Surely iMessage/ WhatsApp via GiffGaff unlimited data would get round the MMS issue?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Surely iMessage/ WhatsApp via GiffGaff unlimited data would get round the MMS issue?


 
fucknose, he says it doesnt work..... I already spend large parts of my life figuring out his OSX problems, and him getting in a strop when his catchuptv is slow (I've got QOS setup for me xbox). I cant be fucked sorting his phone too, considering he just drops and smashes it every other day.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's what the new iPhone SIMs look like. You need tweezers to handle them.


 
Ahh it reminds me of when I first saw a microSD card. 'I could put that up my nose' I thought, and for that and other reasons the size seemed silly. In practice it really doesnt matter so long as you arent actually juggling such small cards very often. I dont know if I'll actually need tweezers to handle a nanoSIM, I suspect I will try to demonstrate my rebel geek daring side by directly handling it, ooh!


----------



## pesh (Sep 11, 2012)

it's about the size of a tab of acid, people have been successfully handling them in far rougher terrain than an apple store for decades, i think everyone will be ok.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

pesh said:


> it's about the size of a tab of acid, people have been successfully handling them in far rougher terrain than an apple store for decades, i think everyone will be ok.



Tell me about, there are far less silly things to quibble about.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I think the new iPhone *has* be 4G otherwise who's going to queue up for a hugely expensive phone sporting yesterday's technology?


My experience of buying (apparently) "the best" android phone going (in 2010ish?) proved beyond dismal.

I don't see Windows as a realistic alternative ATM.

I don't, tbf, give much of a fuck about 4g - I want a phone that works, that doesn't ceaselessly fuck around & disappoint me, in which *everything* is beautifully integrated, and which - in a nutshell - works. *Everything* about my experience of apple suggests that, tbf, that's what I'm likely to get with an iproduct. My experience of listening to folks singing the praises of android (back in the days when I was all windows, except for an iPod) proved to be a massive disappointment. 

I might be happy with a 4s, if the new un looks dismal. Top end, on contract, I'm probably looking at £200 for the handset. 

I'm alright with that, if it means getting something I enjoy, that I trust, and which *works*, irrespective of whether or not that makes me a tech Neanderthal, and irrespective of how awesome 4g might be!

If the 5 turns out to be raw gash, I might have another look at android / windows in 3yrs time!


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2012)

pesh said:


> it's about the size of a tab of acid, people have been successfully handling them in far rougher terrain than an apple store for decades, i think everyone will be ok.


 
Will GiffGaff start a cottage industry acid-SIM distribution network though, that is the question? And what happens if I insert it into a nostril?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

Tbh handsets hold little interest for me these days, it's all about cloud synced applications which are platform agnostic. A bit better battery life would be nice, don't really need a better camera now the 4S has such a great one...


----------



## Winot (Sep 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Here's what the new iPhone SIMs look like. You need tweezers to handle them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bugger, so I'm not going to be able to keep my cheap tariff going then by dropping my iPhone4 SIM into a paid for 5? Or can I just transfer the deal over?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 11, 2012)

The new nano SIM still has exactly the same metal contacts in the same shape. It just has barely any extraneous plastic around them at all any more. You should be able to trim it down.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2012)

Less plastic is a good thing if you ask me...


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Less plastic is a good thing if you ask me...


tbf, unless they stop shipping them in ridiculous airfix-type kits, it'll be exactly the same amount of plastic discarded at different points in time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> tbf, unless they stop shipping them in ridiculous airfix-type kits, it'll be exactly the same amount of plastic discarded at different points in time.



Indeed, the next stupid wasteful idea to go...


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Trying to present this as some sort of environmentally-driven initiative worthy of applause really is fucking stretching it

Apple still have a fairly appalling environmental record and the trimming of a few bits of plastic around a SIM card isn't going to make up for the shameful lack of green leadership shown by the world's richest and most profitable tech company.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> My experience of buying (apparently) "the best" android phone going (in 2010ish?) proved beyond dismal.


It was defintely better than the best iPhone available at the time - and I know should know because I owned both.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

That sort of definitive statement based around a broad term like best is one of the many sorts of fuel that adds to this forums woes at times.

The 'I should know' claim is also a stretch because all it really means is that for you that phone was better than the best iPhone at the time. And you wont be alone, your view is relevant, but its not the be all and end all.

I waited till nearly a year ago before getting an android phone (galaxy nexus) and although there are aspects of both the phone and OS that I like, even after waiting till a very mature version it hasnt wowed and amazed me to the extent that I'm bound to stick with Android in future. There are things about iOS that I miss, although my appreciation of this android phone has gained a boost thanks to Jelly Bean. I dont know if it will last.

Put it this way, I wish android devices were clearly better than iPhones to an extent that really justifies androids hefty market share. But much of that phenomenon is down to price, and androids great success in that regard is of relatively little consequence to me as a user, other than keeping away fears that Im on a dying platform. I wish android phones were so much better than iphones in so many ways that I didnt need to bother making this sort of post. But I cant, there are a number of very good android phones but android itself is nothing to get worked up into a complete frenzy about, not so long as one of its best loved features is simply that it isnt made by Apple!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> That sort of definitive statement based around a broad term like best is one of the many sorts of fuel that adds to this forums woes at times.
> 
> The 'I should know' claim is also a stretch because all it really means is that for you that phone was better than the best iPhone at the time. And you wont be alone, your view is relevant, but its not the be all and end all!


We were both talking about our own, hands-on, personal experiences with the devices but, unlike some, I actually _owned both devices_ which I think makes my opinion at least a reasonably educated one.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> It was defintely better than the best iPhone available at the time - and I know should know because I owned both.


Thing is, I preferred my iPod touch. 2nd gen. £109.

I've posted before about things like being dismally disappointed with android's marketplace, the surcharges my bank imposed because apps were charged in foreign currency, *and* my bank account being frozen (in one instance whilst I kinda needed petrol, just outside of Sheffield) because of bastarding Yen transactions. I never found anything that actually felt like it was using the phone's infamous first-ever 1ghz processor. I enjoy gaming; I think Android put out 1 game* that seemed even vaguely on a par with (2nd gen iPod, 666mhz processor) iOS offerings over the course of a year. It's not that I didn't keep trying - I DLed well over 50 full and lite apps. And was constantly disappointed, until I gave up.

And then the phone started dying, anyway.

Ok, great, you thought the desire was "definitely better" than the iPhone on offer at the time. No offence intended, but that's why I've now taken to, basically, ignoring tech advice and am going pretty much 100% Apple. The more I see people recommending things that I found shit, the more I find myself thinking "yeah, and last time I took similar tech advice..." I had over a decade of serially crashing, buggy Windows computers, culminating in a Dell with Vista and a "known issue" fucked graphics card that I thought might've wiped quite a bit of data for my thesis. Ok, win7 was briefly better, but you know what? My apple replacements just don't crash. I haven't had to do 4 factory resets within 1 month of getting them, new. I haven't had the same fundamentally fucked experience with the app store as I had with marketplace. My dad's experience of android was using a £150 blindness app on a £150 phone, & after 3 weeks he still couldn't send a text, make a call, or reliably answer a call. You know why? Embedddedness & interface. He could do those things in 2mins on an unamended / generic iPhone (despite my previously pending an hour with him & his Galaxy Y).

When I see people recommending that I buy android (& I have occasionally considered it), I invariably hit a problem because I find myself thinking "I've heard this before, and it was - for me - shit." You're *still* saying the desire was "better" than the iPhone, and, no offence, that leaves me distrusting your suggestions even more. It's, like, you're *still* telling me I made the right decision. If that's the case, then you really don't get what did & didn't work for me, and what I've repeatedly posted I found really disappointing about it.

And, tbh, that's sometimes pushed me into just fucking the fuck off from suggestions, because I'll see someone pushing an android or windows system hard, and think - you know what? I just don't trust your judgment for my usage / needs at all. I'm going to revert to the system that I know *has* worked consistently & beautifully for me, and tbh that means Apple. Based on my experience. And fuck recommendations. Because last time I bought a phone, recommendations - basically - led to three years of disappointment, made even worse by just how far it fell short (IMO) of the hype.


*Raging Thunder 2, fwiw.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

Interesting article by 'Fake Steve Jobs' about Apple's lack of vision since Jobs died. I have to agree with quite a lot of it. The bean counters are in charge. Was surprised to see how little Apple spend on R&D these days (2%). 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19557497


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Trying to present this as some sort of environmentally-driven initiative worthy of applause really is fucking stretching it
> 
> Apple still have a fairly appalling environmental record and the trimming of a few bits of plastic around a SIM card isn't going to make up for the shameful lack of green leadership shown by the world's richest and most profitable tech company.



Um this is something that should be industry wide...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Interesting article by 'Fake Steve Jobs' about Apple's lack of vision since Jobs died. I have to agree with quite a lot of it. The bean counters are in charge. Was surprised to see how little Apple spend on R&D these days (2%).
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19557497



2% is that down or up compared to previous years? Tbh I don't think excite is the right term, Jobs was a good showman but the smartphone market is very different now, very competitive so no one company can stand out as easily anymore...


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> It was defintely better than the best iPhone available at the time - and I know should know because I owned both.


 
Joker   a 3GS kicks a Desire's arse... and then some.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

Hmm. Thant BBC article has disappeared. Was going to try and find out 2% of _what_


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 2% is that down or up compared to previous years? Tbh I don't think excite is the right term, Jobs was a good showman but the smartphone market is very different now, very competitive so no one company can stand out as easily anymore...


 
Let's see what happens today, when that ingratiating billionaire Tim Cook takes the stage and bores the shit out of us with his tedious monotone. Why do we have to listen to the guy who has squeezed all the blood out its Chinese manufacturers? 

One thing I hate about Steve Jobs' legacy is now the egomaniacal CEO of almost every company feels the need to get on stage and become a 'personality'.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Hmm. Thant BBC article has disappeared. Was going to try and find out 2% of _what_


 
Here


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

Here's another interesting article from Ars - readers ideas of what could be added to the new iPhone:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/09/the-next-iphone-what-ars-readers-want-from-apple/


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

2% of _revenues _(Cheers struct)

I suspected as much. Apple has phenomenal revenues due to their fat profit margin and high-value products. Of course Google spends more as a %age of revenues - their revenues are much lower.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

aha


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

I seriously doubt Tim Cook is a billionaire just yet  and today's iPhone announcement will probably have a number of presenters - Cook isn't stupid, he knows his limitations.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Ok, great, you thought the desire was "definitely better" than the iPhone on offer at the time. No offence intended, but that's why I've now taken to, basically, ignoring tech advice and am going pretty much 100% Apple.


I paid the most I'd ever paid for a smartphone when I got my iPhone 3GS and committed to the most expensive contract I'd ever been on. I gave the handset a very good go indeed for the six months I had it, but by the end I couldn't wait to get rid of the thing. I ended up very disappointed indeed. Those were the facts.

But seeing as you've admitted to committing to a path of 'ignoring all tech advice' and just buying Apple products "100%" regardless, that kind of highlights the futility of looking for any kind of open and unbiased discourse about new tech developments.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I paid the most I'd ever paid for a smartphone when I got my iPhone 3GS and committed to the most expensive contract I'd ever been on. I gave the handset a very good go indeed for the six months I had it, but by the end I couldn't wait to get rid of the thing. I ended up very disappointed indeed. Those were the facts.
> 
> But seeing as you've admitted to committing to a path of 'ignoring all tech advice' and just buying Apple products "100%" regardless, that kind of highlights the futility of looking for any kind of open and unbiased discourse about new tech developments.


Yes - see how I don't and won't deny your experience. And won't try to convince you that iOS is 'better.' I'm extremely happy that people are happy with Android. More power to them!

My difficulty with 'unbiased discourse' is that - IME - they're biased, and tend towards promoting stuff that I've found shit. For me. Whilst denying that my experience is / was valid, and claiming they're 'unbiased.'


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Um this is something that should be industry wide...


Indeed it should. But don't you think the biggest, richest and most profitable company should be taking the initiative here? No? Why not?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> My difficulty with 'unbiased discourse' is that - IME - they're biased, and tend towards promoting stuff that I've found shit. For me. Whilst denying that my experience is / was valid, and claiming they're 'unbiased.'


My opinions are informed by my own experiences and (hopefully) a reasonable understanding of the technology and the market.

I've never tried to convince anyone that the Android OS is 'better' than iOS - in fact, I've been fairly consistent in saying that iOS offers the slickest experience on tablets - but I'm not so impressed with the company's ethics, their greed, their walled garden approach or the very limited choice of phones.

Right now, I think the best phones to be found are on the Android platform although the iPhone remains a very capable handset. Android offers far better value and I prefer their more open approach.

Perhaps today's announcements will change all that, although Apple does seem to be playing catch up with Android recently for many of the more interesting new tech features, and Windows 8 seems to be where all the real innovation is going on.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Here's another interesting article from Ars - readers ideas of what could be added to the new iPhone:
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/09/the-next-iphone-what-ars-readers-want-from-apple/


Despite what was posted here, I see that many others have also had problems with the home button.


> *Home button: fix it or get rid of it*
> 
> Complaints about the iPhone's home button were legion. Many users pointed out that their home buttons stopped working properly long ago, even on relatively new devices like the iPhone 4S. (This is a personal complaint of mine as well; forget trying to actually bring up the application switcher on the first, third, or even fifth try because the home button double tap doesn't work for me.)


I wish they'd hurry up and make wireless charging standard.

I wonder if the use of wireless chargers by Nokia means that what appears to have been Palm's innovation from years ago is finally being licensed?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I've never tried to convince anyone that the Android OS is 'better' than iOS


...


editor said:


> It was defintely better than the best iPhone available at the time - and I know should know because I owned both.


You see - _not for me _it wouldn't've been.

I know this, because I owned an iPod 2nd gen. Which was considerably shitter than the iPhone that was out around the time of the Desire's release. Yet I used my iPod whenever I could, particularly on wifi. And would've dumped the Desire in a second if my iPod (2nd gen) could've made calls.

I've owned a HTC Desire for about 3 years. I ran Windows for 10 years too, tbh, which also leaves me thinking I had *some* experience of alternative platforms, and a modicum of ability to detect what I thought kinda 'worked' for me and what I found kinda more frustrating.

As soon as you say 'definitely better' rather than 'definitely better _for what I wanted'_ you're off on one.



editor said:


> Perhaps today's announcements will change all that, although Apple does seem to be playing catch up with Android recently for many of the more interesting new tech features, and Windows 8 seems to be where all the real innovation is going on.


 
See, it doesn't matter. For me. It honestly doesn't matter. You're talking about 'tech' as though that's going to define my experience of a phone. Or anyone's experience. It's, like, *everything* I've had that's been apple-related hasn't fucked around. It hasn't crashed, mercilessly, from the moment I've bought it. In the words of someone else, "it just works."

I'm not a tech boffin. I honestly don't give a fuck about whether it's a whizzbit doodah more whatever, or has a kajillion flams. I just want a phone that's a joy to use, which has a *really well integrated* set of features, and which doesn't feel like a constant disappointment. To me.

My experience of your recommendation for the 'definitely better' phone was that it was shit. You're *now* - seemingly - telling me that I'm wrong in thinking that it *wasn't* definitely better, for me.

Can you see why I might find that quite patronising, and kinda like you're missing the point? The point that isn't about how many whatevers, and the precise number of this and that?

Do you think you might find it quite patronising if I told you you're wrong, and that - actually - the iPhone 3G (or whatever) was 'definitely better' than the Desire? And that you're wrong in thinking it isn't?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

I was giving my _opinion_, not delivering a peer reviewed study. 

When I bought my iPhone 3GS I also believed that to be the best smartphone available at the time - and repeatedly said so. Right here. On these boards. When the handset turned out to be a massive disappointment - for me - I got a Desire, which I found a whole lot better.

As for me, I'm thinking my next phone may even be a Nokia which is something I thought I'd never hear myself say - but then, unlike you, I'm not now '100%' committed to buying only one brand, full stop. I find that a bit of a weird thing to say, to be honest.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I was giving my _opinion_, not delivering a peer reviewed study.


Perhaps, if you wrote as if you weren't making definitive statements of fact, you might evoke less contention?

1. It was defintely better than the best iPhone available at the time - and I know should know because I owned both.
2. I preferred the Desire. Right now, I think the best phones to be found are on the Android platform.

See the difference there?

See why 2. might be a bit less provocative? And *might* be less easy to take as a pretty arrogant statement of 'fact'?


> When I bought my iPhone 3GS I also believed that to be the best smartphone available at the time - and repeatedly said so. Right here. On these boards. When the handset turned out to be a massive disappointment - for me - I got a Desire, which I found a whole lot better.


Right.

So if / when people started suggesting you buy an iPhone for your next purchase, you'd listen to their 'unbiased' advice?

Can you see how a shitty experience might shape my take on the credibility and 'objectivity' of other people's reviews?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> So if / when people started suggesting you buy an iPhone for your next purchase, you'd listen to their 'unbiased' advice?


One of the reasons I bought the iPhone 3GS was because I listened to the advice of some of the posters here.

People's own experiences with gadgets should never be discounted and there's been some interesting stuff posted here, but it's wise to also look at reviews and user opinions elsewhere too to get the full picture.

By that token, anyone who starts from an entrenched position of declaring that they're only ever going to buy one particular brand regardless of reviews, opinions or what anyone else says can hardly be trusted to offer any kind of unbiased insights or useful comment to potential purchasers.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> By that token, anyone who starts from an entrenched position of declaring that they're only ever going to buy one particular brand regardless of reviews, opinions or what anyone else says can hardly be trusted to offer any kind of unbiased insights or useful comment to potential purchasers.


What if they're not making *any pretensions* to offering 'objective' advice?

It's often those pretensions to 'objectiveness' that strike me as both ridiculous, and arrogant / absurd.

Because, tbh, I'll sometimes offer my experience.

I fucking well hope I'd never say 'this is what you should do / this is what's best for you / 'this is definitely better'.

I don't lay any claim to expertise. I hope I never will.

You've occasionally stated you owned an iPhone for 6 months. I've owned a Desire for 3yrs and Windows PCs for over a decade. I hope I'd *still* never say 'this is definitely better.' Let alone 'this is what you should do / buy / get.'


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

btw, 'ever'?

Fuck off 

If I have a shit experience with Apple, you know what I'll do?

NB: the answer is 'go elsewhere.'


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> You've occasionally stated you owned an iPhone for 6 months. I've owned a Desire for 3yrs and Windows PCs for over a decade. I hope I'd *still* never say 'this is definitely better.' Let alone 'this is what you should do / buy / get.'


I'd say an iPhone 4S is definitely better than a three year old Desire for most users.

But let's be honest, even you must realise that after declaring you're only ever going to buy one brand from now on, regardless of reviews and user opinion, you're never going to be the go-to guy for anyone looking for an impartial, fair and unbiased discussion of the merits of rival products.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> btw, 'ever'?
> 
> Fuck off
> 
> ...


That rather contradicts your earlier statement.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> That rather contradicts your earlier statement.


Go on.

Where have I said I'll 'never' buy anything else and / or won't switch if I have a shit experience?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Go on.
> 
> Where have I said I'll 'never' buy anything else and / or won't switch if I have a shit experience?


But for now - and the next three years at least - you'll be 'ignoring all tech advice' and buying nothing but 100% Apple, Apple and Apple, yes?



> No offence intended, but that's why I've now taken to, basically, ignoring tech advice and am going pretty much 100% Apple.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I'd say an iPhone 4S is definitely better than a three year old Desire for most users.


I PREFERRED MY iPOD 2!!!!

Have you heard that yet?



> But let's be honest, even you must realise that after declaring you're only ever going to buy one brand from now on, regardless of reviews and user opinion, you're never going to be the go-to guy for anyone looking for an impartial, fair and unbiased discussion of the merits of rival products.


tbf, I haven't said that.

I've - certainly - said I distrust your opinions. And that I'm likely to distrust advice about Android for the foreseeable. And don't yet see W8 as a credible / embedded alternative.

Why did I leave Android / Windows? Because of shit experiences.

Why does that make you think that I've become a total devotee of Apple?

Why don't you think that the consistent element here is 'good / shit' experiences? So long as I keep on having positive experiences - ta-daa! I'll keep on buying Apple. Unless something very different comes along.

What'll happen if I have a shit experience of Apple - ta-daa! I'll look elsewhere far sooner.

The consistent element is 'shit / not shit' experiences. Not absolute commitment to one brand.

I've had 3yrs' shit experience of Android, from the off. I had over a decade of, frankly, shit experiences with Windows. With - perhaps - a qualified window of light towards the end.

I haven't had analogously shit experiences with Apple.

Why is it the Apple bit that you keep on hearing, and not the 'actually, I found that really shit, despite people recommending it loads, and that's why I'm now wary of recommendations, and keen to keep on building on my own positive experiences, until and unless they stop being positive experiences' bit?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Why does that make you think that I've become a total devotee of Apple?


Because you've just announced that you intend to 'ignore all tech advice' and buy nothing but Apple products?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

I wouldn't bother Mrs.Q, this line of "discussion" has no satisfactory end, believe me.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Because you've just announced that you intend to 'ignore all tech advice' and buy nothing but Apple products?


Why do you think that isn't related to *current* experience, past experiences of reviews, and - still - directly related to *ongoing* experience?

Here is my 2008 thread, wondering about whether to buy a Dell or a MacBook: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/idiots-guide-type-question.196566/

I went for the Dell.

You know why I stopped going for the Dell?

The clue's in my above posts - shit experiences.

Here is my first post, shortly after I'd been swayed into getting a Desire by a series of outstanding reviews: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...e-gets-rave-review.246893/page-7#post-8977607

If you're particularly arsed, afaict, you can then track my series of early disappointments over the next few pages.

You know why I'll stop going for HTC / Android?

The clue's in my above posts - shit experiences.

afaict, you stopped going for iOS products after a shit experience.

afaik, you'd very possibly stop going for a given platform / device, too, if you had shit experiences of it.

Who knows, if you had a particularly awesome experience of a given platform, you might even *continue* going for it?

Hell, yes, my buying - atm - is experiential. Having found reviews a bit shit, more than a little biased, and frankly a bit hopeless wrt what I'm actually after.

Do you think buying on the basis of really good experience is nuts?

Do you think that *not* buying on the basis of really shit experience is nuts?

Do you think you'd be well up for buying an iOS device, if good reviews come out later today?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I wouldn't bother Mrs.Q, this line of "discussion" has no satisfactory end, believe me.


Proverbs 26:11, fwiw.

("As a dog returneth to its vomit...")


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I wouldn't bother Mrs.Q, this line of "discussion" has no satisfactory end, believe me.


The iPincer movement begins with a snidey remark!

So do you believe someone declaring that they intend to 'ignore all tech advice' and buy nothing but Apple products is likely to be able to offer impartial advice on rival products?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

I believe engaging with you on these topics is pointless because you're intransigent, stubborn and blind to your own rhetorical fallacies.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> So do you believe someone declaring that they intend to 'ignore all tech advice' and buy nothing but Apple products is likely to be able to offer impartial advice on rival products?


I hope I'd be open in stating that 'this is / was my experience.'

I hope I wouldn't make any pretensions to 'impartiality,' let alone 'expertise!' I had an utterly shit experience of Android and Windows. I've had an astoundingly positive experience of OS / iOS. Of course I'm not 'impartial' in my own choice of tech, for me. At the same time, I fully recognise just how much that constrains my opinions / experiences wrt what might work for other people.

I'm a pretty bog standard user. I don't consider myself 'expert.' I don't consider that I have everyone's solution, or - indeed - that what worked for me would work for other people. I bloody well hope my comments above about kazillion flams, etc, make that more than a little clear.

Here is the full quotation wrt 'ignoring tech advice,' btw:


> Ok, great, you thought the desire was "definitely better" than the iPhone on offer at the time. No offence intended, but that's why I've now taken to, basically, ignoring tech advice and am going pretty much 100% Apple. The more I see people recommending things that I found shit, the more I find myself thinking "yeah, and last time I took similar tech advice..."


 
Are you saying that you'd be well up for getting an iPhone now, if you re-read a few positive reviews?


----------



## magneze (Sep 12, 2012)




----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> afaict, you stopped going for iOS products after a shit experience.


In my case it wasn't just the phone that disappointed but the dreadful iTunes experience that came with it. I was _delighted_ to be able to get that piece of bloated cack off my system.


mrs quoad said:


> Do you think you'd be well up for buying an iOS device, if good reviews come out later today?


Unlikely, because I've been very satisfied with my S2 phone thus far and don't feel inclined to climb back into Apple's walled garden again.

Unless they come up with something absolutely mind blowing today, I think I'd be more inclined to look closely at the upcoming Windows Mobiles phones. Unlike you, I have no preset preference as the manufacturer: I'll buy whatever fits my needs and budget best.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> I hope I'd be open in stating that 'this is / was my experience.'


This is a community forum. Just about every post is about a poster's experiences on a given subject.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> In my case it wasn't just the phone that disappointed but the dreadful iTunes experience that came with it. I was _delighted_ to be able to get that piece of bloated cack off my system.
> 
> Unlikely, because I've been absolutely delighted with my S2 phone thus far and don't feel inclined to get climb back into Apple's walled garden again.
> 
> Unless they come up with something absolutely mind blowing today, I think I'd be more inclined to look closely at the upcoming Windows Mobiles phones. Unlike you, I have no preset preference as the manufacturer: I'll buy whatever fits my needs and budget best.


Well, exactly.

I don't pretend to be impartial.

It sounds as if you don't, either.

So... what was your point about my lack of impartiality again? I don't get what the argument is there. Particularly given my irritation earlier was precisely that - your *seeming* intimations of impartiality and generalisable expertise.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> This is a community forum. Just about every post is about a poster's experiences on a given subject.


So why state it as fact? Unless it being 2am in the morning somehow influences your claims to 'definitive' expertise? ('Definitive' in the sense of 'definitely better.' That being a definitive comment.)

You were certainly more moderate in your comments this morning wrt IYO the best phones out there atm are Android.

I hope that I'd rarely - if ever - make a claim that was anything like what you were posting at 2am; and, tbh, if someone picked me up on it, I hope I'd have the decency to recognise that, yeah, I was probably being a bit of an overenthusiastic bell-end when I posted it.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> So... what was your point about my lack of impartiality again? I don't get what the argument is there. Particularly given my irritation earlier was precisely that - your *seeming* intimations of impartiality and generalisable expertise.


You've declared that you're going to buy nothing but one brand from now on regardless of tech reviews and user opinions on their products.

If you think starting from that position sets you up to be an impartial, unbiased commentator on rival products, I'll have to beg to differ.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> overenthusiastic bell-end


And on that comment, I'll leave you to it.


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

5 hours 46 minutes to go. And we've already reached boiling point


----------



## magneze (Sep 12, 2012)

But not, it might be noted, on the subject of the thread....


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> You've declared that you're going to buy nothing but one brand from now on regardless of tech reviews and user opinions on their products.
> 
> If you think starting from that position sets you up to be an impartial, unbiased commentator on rival products, I'll have to beg to differ.


tbf, the quotation I think you're referring to is "Ok, great, you thought the desire was "definitely better" than the iPhone on offer at the time. No offence intended, but that's why I've now taken to, basically, ignoring tech advice and am going pretty much 100% Apple."

I quoted it above.

I don't see an 'ever' in there, but can see why you might've inferred it. I hope I've subsequently clarified, very clearly, and with reference to previous changes of platform, that it's experience that'll probably be most crucial in determining whether or not I look elsewhere.

Is that clear now? If not, how can I further clarify it, so you don't feel the need to repeat that statement (which I think I've now responded to 2 or 3 times) again?

wrt impartiality - where have I claimed impartiality? Where have I stated that it matters?

I'm not claiming to have *everyone's* answers, and am recognising that I'm only speaking about my own personal experience and what did / didn't work for me, whilst recognising that - because of my own shit experience of 'expert' reviews - what worked for me also might not work for other people.

Because their experiences might be different.

And - like you - they might lack partiality in another direction, making what worked for me utterly irrelevant for you.

I don't think 'impartiality' is too great in tech reviews. In fact, I think that a pretension of impartiality is what makes a lot of tech reviews, IMO, a tonne shitter. Because they're very rarely impartial, and *recognising and stating* the direction in which they're partial would give readers one fuck of a lot of a better impression of what they're reading, and how they can interpret it. With regard to their own needs and wants.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

magneze said:


>




Yay, that meme lives on  

I'm hoping Windows 8 cause a lively split of opinion over the next year or so, so we can have some new arguments


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 12, 2012)

editor you sound pretty singularly and unashamedly devoted to Android on this previous thread...

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/huzzah-my-o2-iphone-contract-is-finally-up.272423/



editor said:


> I'm definitely sticking with Android though...





editor said:


> I'll probably move to a rolling monthly deal before committing to the latest slab of Android loveliness.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

iDay's are renowned for their family bickering.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> editor you sound pretty singularly and unashamedly devoted to Android on this previous thread...
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/huzzah-my-o2-iphone-contract-is-finally-up.272423/



He's one step away from a big whooping high five!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> iDay's are renowned for their family bickering.


D'you know, I've tried to stay quite measured, reasoned and polite. This time


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> D'you know, I've tried to stay quite measured, reasoned and polite. This time


You used a single mildly rude word. I'm afraid your arguments are now irrelevant.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> You used a single mildly rude word. I'm afraid your arguments are now irrelevant.




Still, gotta try


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> editor you sound pretty singularly and unashamedly devoted to Android on this previous thread...
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/huzzah-my-o2-iphone-contract-is-finally-up.272423/


Is that the best you can do. Really?

A post from 18 months ago where I - at the time - wanted to move on to another Android phone, cited four different manufacturers and then asked if anyone knew of any other high end phones worth looking at.

Now, why don't you at least try and not appear to be dredging up the past to score points and quote my more recent posts where I've repeatedly said I'd be happy to switch to another OS like WM if a good enough phone turns up?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> You used a single mildly rude word. I'm afraid your arguments are now irrelevant.


You do like a good stir, don't you?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

Just as much as you do.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> He's one step away from a big whooping high five!


Yet you seem to be expressing similar sentiments in the very same thread!


Kid_Eternity said:


> Waiting on the iPhone 5 and the new Android lot to actually come out so I can size them all up. Looks like I may be going Android if Apple does the usual incremental upgrade...


*high fives


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2012)

i used to love the Ed's threads when he had an iPhone, they were fucking legendary...

obviously i'm paraphrasing here, i can't be arsed to find the exact threads, he'll do it for me and post the relevant links if i get it that badly wrong, but  from what i remember they were mostly along the lines of...

'argh fucking itunes' 'argh can't import my music' 'argh my music has disappeared' 'argh can't import my calandar' 'argh everything i did yesterday is gone today' etc etc

i remember thinking at the time 'why is this poor man struggling so much with iTunes, it's a fairly crap program but even i have successfully conquered it, and i don't even consider myself tech savvy enough to run a tech blog'


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

Is it now officially off-topic to say that I'm quite looking forward to getting a new iPhone? And / or to hearing a bit more about it later today?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> i used to love the Ed's threads when he had an iPhone, they were fucking legendary...
> 
> obviously i'm paraphrasing here, i can't be arsed to find the exact threads, he'll do it for me and post the relevant links if i get it that badly wrong, but from what i remember they were mostly along the lines of...
> 
> ...


IIRC, one major problem was that he was trying to use an American iTunes account, in order to get access to reviewer-only codes for app downloads. Caused no end of fuss.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Is it now officially off-topic to say that I'm quite looking forward to getting a new iPhone? And / or to hearing a bit more about it later today?


Given the breadth and depth of leaks this time round, I just don't think it'll be worth hanging around for. Maybe they've updated the Touch as well, or have a new Nano as well? I can wait to find out.


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> IIRC, one major problem was that he was trying to use an American iTunes account, in order to get access to reviewer-only codes for app downloads. Caused no end of fuss.


oh yeah, i vaguely remember that, didn't his apps keep disappearing or something, and it was because he had 2 itunes accounts running or something?


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 12, 2012)

I've had my 4 since the 3rd day it came out. I'm totally bored of it, it's smashed up to fuck and the home button doesn't work. The 5 better be good, because I'm buying it no matter what. I'm too scared to go outside the walled garden.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Just as much as you do.



He's the central reason why these Apple threads descend into nasty bullying posts and derails. Every time you log on and see a bunch of posters going off on one you can bet that if you scroll back up you'll see the Ed right in the middle of the shitstorm he's created...


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> He's the central reason why these Apple threads descend into nasty bullying posts and derails. Every time you log on and see a bunch of posters going off on one you can bet that if you scroll back up you'll see the Ed right in the middle of the shitstorm he's created...


And you right in there egging him on, tbf.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Is it now officially off-topic to say that I'm quite looking forward to getting a new iPhone? And / or to hearing a bit more about it later today?



Off topic and ironic! Tbh I don't think there's much surprise coming, and being on a train means I won't be able to keep up with the bloody live blogs anyway!

Wonder when iOS 6 will be ready for download?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> And you right in there egging him on, tbf.



Mate, it's not true, plenty of times I've sat back saying nothing and watched this boring shit unfold. He claims it's not him, if that were true he'd simply not reply to anyone he considers trying to wind him up...


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2012)

spacemonkey said:


> I've had my 4 since the 3rd day it came out. I'm totally bored of it, it's smashed up to fuck and the home button doesn't work. The 5 better be good, because I'm buying it no matter what. I'm too scared to go outside the walled garden.


I'm hoping Devteam will get the jailbreak out pronto,ios6 has already been broken but not obviously for the iPhone 5.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

peterkro said:


> I'm hoping Devteam will get the jailbreak out pronto,ios6 has already been broken but not obviously for the iPhone 5.



How easy is it to jailbreak?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2012)

Piece of piss.


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How easy is it to jailbreak?


1 button press and wait about 5 minutes last time i did it. i don't like the walled garden either so i spent 5 minutes leaving it.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Mate, it's not true, plenty of times I've sat back saying nothing and watched this boring shit unfold. He claims it's not him, if that were true he'd simply not reply to anyone he considers trying to wind him up...


 
I'm slightly guilty too sometimes. Look at me "stirring" upthread, for example. But you're much freer with your pisstakes, green smilies, exclamation marks and general dismissiveness. For your interest and amusement, I suggest you do a boards-wide search for ["please stop" Kid_Eternity] posted by user [editor]. Swap out Kid_Eternity for other usernames and notice the different amounts to which they provoke him.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 12, 2012)

*waits for usual suspects to be agog about the Apple Store being down*


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> i remember thinking at the time 'why is this poor man struggling so much with iTunes, it's a fairly crap program but even i have successfully conquered it, and i don't even consider myself tech savvy enough to run a tech blog'


I actually would have preferred my time with the iPhone to have been a pleasant one because I'd committed to a pricey 18 month contract and was all ready to bask in Apple's legendary ease of use and fab customer service.

I had loads of things go wrong until the phone ended up losing everything at one point, and when I wrote to them I got conflicting email advice from the fucking 'genius' at the other end.

The ten ton of hassle that opened up when I tried to install some review software ended up being the icing on a rotten cake.  So, for me, it was nearly as bad as my experience with the Palm Pre that preceded it. And that was a phone I so wanted to like.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I'm slightly guilty too sometimes. Look at me "stirring" upthread, for example. But you're much freer with your pisstakes, green smilies, exclamation marks and general dismissiveness. For your interest and amusement, I suggest you do a boards-wide search for ["please stop" Kid_Eternity] posted by user [editor]. Swap out Kid_Eternity for other usernames and notice the different amounts to which they provoke him.


Thing is, I find it impossible to post on this forum in the same way I'd post on others. Make a slightly mischievous comment about something, and *kaboom* I suddenly discover that it was an arrow of trolldoom fired from a wilful cannon of catastrophe, wielded by a fanatic and aimed straight for the most sensitive heart of the oppressed android community.

And then - IME - there's no way to respond to *that* without things getting even worse. Like, run with accusations of idiocy and / or trolling, and just let things die (usually the best, tbf, though then I've just left 'confirmed evidence' that I was *actually* trolling because I didn't dispute it.). Or take things seriously (= total meltdown catastrophe), or don't take things seriously (= double total meltdown catastrophe, plus accusations of flames the like of which the universe has never seen since the birth of Skeletor).

I certainly don't have anything like this problem on any other forum. Though - afaik - my posting style isn't massively different. If at all.

There's about 5 threads I'm avoiding atm, because I know there's no way of even beginning to get anything sensible out of them. And I just feel it's all a bit , tbh. I *really don't* enjoy 'stirring things up.' Which is why I don't elsewhere. And why I don't on here - but I find it 99% impossible not to do so whether I like it or not, because of the dynamic I've outlined above. Any comment is an arrow of doom. Even the lightest of mischief is verboten.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> 1 button press and wait about 5 minutes last time i did it. i don't like the walled garden either so i spent 5 minutes leaving it.



O rly? Any good sites which have a step by step guide?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2012)

iClarified.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> I *really don't* enjoy 'stirring things up.'


Then maybe leave out the "slightly mischievous comments" (aka trolling) given you'll know _exactly_ what response they'll get?

But if you think this tech forum is bad, you should take a look around at some of the others. This place is like a vicar's tea party compared to some of the thermo nuclear tech wars going on elsewhere.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

Couldn't agree with you more Mrs.Q


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> O rly? Any good sites which have a step by step guide?


i think i used this last time, but make sure you use the right jailbreak for your version of ios and for the relevant phone, and back it up first.

http://greenpois0n.com/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> i think i used this last time, but make sure you use the right jailbreak for your version of ios and for the relevant phone, and back it up first.
> 
> http://greenpois0n.com/



Ah cool, will check out.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Then maybe leave out the "slightly mischievous comments" (aka trolling) given you'll know exactly what response they'll get.


You know what?

They wouldn't on Urban's other forums.

And, tbh, afaict 'you'll know exactly what response they'll get' - IME - means from you. Not from other people. Really. And I didn't know that I was going to get that kinda response until I started posting here. And by then, it was already too late.

They're not *intended* as trolling. They're intended as light-hearted posts. They're commonplace on other forums. I've been making them for in the region of 6 years. They've *never once* caused this level of difficulty, anywhere, except the tech forums.

And on here there's - IME - no way of getting through it, because ignoring it doesn't work (you'll take it as evidence that I agree, and that I was trolling), responding seriously doesn't work (as shown on this thread), and refusing to be serious doesn't work (because that just leads to an increasingly collapsing situation).



> But if you think this tech forum is bad, you should take a look around at some of the others. This place is like a vicar's tea party compared to some of the thermo nuclear wars going on elsewhere.


But why is that an excuse? You've posted similar things before, and tbh it just strikes me as kinda repellant.

I don't want thermonuclear war. I dislike being pissed off. I dislike having to 'explain' jokes, and / or to know that NOT explaining them might lead to even nastier / more critical responses. It's bloody awful, and this is the one subforum that I find genuinely obnoxious from time to time.

And that *isn't* because other people misread my posts, or miss my sense of humour. Which has been going ok and without problem with most posters, on all other forums, for about 6 years. It's because I honestly can't work out how on earth I can post things on this board, without your taking them in a (usually) entirely humourless way, and turning them into an absolutely godawful stink about trolling, fanaticism, and goodness only knows what else.

Ignoring them doesn't work.

Humour doesn't work.

Seriousness doesn't work.

I kinda feel what's left, except continuing to post, and kinda working through the messes as they arise. As I pretty much tried to do today.

And when I *do* respond seriously and comprehensively - as I did on this thread - I tend to end up feeling well, what was the point of that? That went chuffing nowhere.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> O rly? Any good sites which have a step by step guide?


 
http://greenpois0n.com/


----------



## magneze (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> Yay, that meme lives on
> 
> I'm hoping Windows 8 cause a lively split of opinion over the next year or so, so we can have some new arguments


Indeed. It will bomb badly and 2013 is therefore going to be the the year of the Linux desktop.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

magneze said:


> Indeed. It will bomb badly and 2013 is therefore going to be the the year of the Linux desktop.


God loves a dreamer!


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2012)

magneze said:


> Indeed. It will bomb badly and 2013 is therefore going to be the the year of the Linux desktop.


 
Can you stop resurrecting posts from 1995, thanks.


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

geeks live from outside a building. talking about a phone.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/engadgets-iphone-5-pre-event-broadcast-live-from-san-francisco/


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

this is fucking hilarious. they're behaving as if they're discussing the Palestinian situation.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Are they high fiving yet?


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

nope. but one of them just about came when the term 'LTE' was mentioned.


----------



## magneze (Sep 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> this is fucking hilarious. they're behaving as if they're discussing the Palestinian situation.


Have you read this thread recently? This is MUCH more serious.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 12, 2012)

The inevitable urban bunfight surrounding any Apple product launch event is one of my annual highlights.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I actually would have preferred my time with the iPhone to have been a pleasant one because I'd committed to a pricey 18 month contract and was all ready to bask in Apple's legendary ease of use and fab customer service.
> 
> I had loads of things go wrong until the phone ended up losing everything at one point, and when I wrote to them I got conflicting email advice from the fucking 'genius' at the other end.
> 
> The ten ton of hassle that opened up when I tried to install some review software ended up being the icing on a rotten cake. So, for me, it was nearly as bad as my experience with the Palm Pre that preceded it. And that was a phone I so wanted to like.


 
I was kind of surprised when you got an iPhone because as best I could tell at the time you already had reasons to intensely dislike Apple. I think its completely fair enough that you should be annoyed by things, you can dislike Apple for all sorts of different reasons if you like, there certainly are reasons to get a bad feeling from that corporation. But I have got wound up from time to time over the years about the way you mix these opinions in with the bigger picture on occasion, including giving other corporations the nod when you'd have the opposite reaction if it were Apple. You were absent when we had a fun conversation here when watching the last Google I/O conference, since they were outdoing Apple on a number of cringeworthy marketing fronts. People jumping out of a balloon and cycling round the roof of the conference centre, with not a milk tray in sight. At the time I lamented your absence from that thread, but as I believe you recently thought that google showing off their glasses on the catwalk was neat I can probably just predict your stance instead.

In the grand scheme of things it really doesnt matter, but I guess I was hoping the situation would have evolved a little more by now. Just last night I was watching the blood donor Hancock episode and when he started going on about charity I thought of you


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Meanwhile far beyond the confines of this forum, the mood is certainly evolving. Apple will still get more media attention than some think fair, but journalists are getting bored with the Apple success story, they are looking for the Apple failure story . Eventually they will get it but dont ask me to predict when. Since before Jobs had even died people were getting ready to look for signs that his departure had ruined Apples decision making capabilities and vision. Theres been some right crock written because in order to go off half cocked with such a story they try to pretend that Apple didnt make mistakes, including big ones, when Jobs was at the helm. And speak of the new 'boring' Apple as if previously they were just continually pumping out fresh new innovations that changed the world on a regular basis. I dont recognise that picture, there were chunks of time last decade where Apple were not doing anything wankworthy.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm calling it now - they're going to call it the iPhone.... _*5*_


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

There was a big 5 on the invitation. It almost certainly will.

BTW, this offer still stands. My hat is made of straw so is technically edible. However, I do not expect to eat it.


Crispy said:


> The number of separate leaked parts that appear to fit together are overwhelming now. If the 5 doesn't look like this:
> Made of these parts:
> (4S on the right for comparison)
> With the new nano-SIMs
> ...


(images removed, go to the quoted post to see)


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 12, 2012)

It's like some military lockdown, pre-presidential motorcade arrival or something:


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> I was kind of surprised when you got an iPhone because as best I could tell at the time you already had reasons to intensely dislike Apple.


I bought what I thought was the best phone available at the time.

I don't suffer any of that fanatical brand loyalty stuff which I find rather odd, so my last four phones have run three different OSs and have been made by four different manufacturers, namely, Palm, Apple, HTC and Samsung - and my next phone may well be running yet another OS!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> nope. but one of them just about came when the term 'LTE' was mentioned.



Aha well any minute now I'm sure..!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> this is fucking hilarious. they're behaving as if they're discussing the Palestinian situation.


It's a painful sight to behold, fo sho'.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I'm calling it now - they're going to call it the iPhone.... _*5*_


You wild reckless thing you!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

So who thinks an iPad Nexus 7 Mini is on the cards?


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Apple replacing Google maps with their own offering is not without risks so I expect iOS 6 to carry some controversy with it too.

My own boredom with Apple these days is mostly because they are very conservative about making major changes to the core UI aspects of iOS. I can't blame them in some ways, but they will have to freshen up the design to some extent eventually. If I were them I would have done it this year, especially with the 'modern' look of Windows 8. Evolve their existing look & dashboard features, and include aspects in the new design that can be used in apps instead of the tacky skeuomorphisms. I know there was a nice debate about that stuff on these forums not so long ago, and its been in the news again lately:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/11/apples-designers-clashing-over-tacky-software-skeuomorphisms/


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> So who thinks an iPad Nexus 7 Mini is on the cards?


Yes, but not today.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> The inevitable urban bunfight surrounding any Apple product launch event is one of my annual highlights.


You should be in for a feast tonight!

I'm waiting to hear Apple claim pre-existing features and technology as  their own fantastic convention and I'm ready for some industrial scale whooping. 

I went to an Apple press launch once and at times it really felt like I was at an annual meeting of a strange cult. Worship the marginal increase in RAM! Praise be for the slightly faster CPU!


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> So who thinks an iPad Nexus 7 Mini is on the cards?


 
The rumours tends to suggest its been delayed a bit, so will be announced separately in October. 

This may well be one of those days where rumours Id rather were false turn out to be broadly correct.


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

I think Apple have a way to go before matching the er, 'vigour' of an MS launch


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm expecting LTE for sure, and maybe their version of the Palm wireless charger with some added Nokia newness thrown in, sprinkled with a bit of Apple fairy dust to make it funner.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> I think Apple have a way to go before matching the er, 'vigour' of an MS launch


It used to be mad and shouty versus smug and smarmy. I think I prefer mad. Or rather, neither.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I went to an Apple press launch once and at times it really felt like I was at an annual meeting of a strange cult. Worship the marginal increase in RAM! Praise be for the slightly faster CPU!


 
I repeat my earlier complaint that you were absent when we were commenting live on the video stream of the Google I/O keynote. It wasnt the same as Apple, but at times it was just as wacky or cult like. And there were fresh opportunities for heckling since it was a new kind of hideous, you missed out!


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

Apple's launches are far less smug and smarmy since Jobs moved on


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> I repeat my earlier complaint that you were absent when we were commenting live on the video stream of the Google I/O keynote. It wasnt the same as Apple, but at times it was just as wacky or cult like. And there were fresh opportunities for heckling since it was a new kind of hideous, you missed out!


I've never been to a Google keynote so can't really comment on the atmosphere inside, but I've no doubt it shared some of the characteristics of an Apple event.

But given that Apple's launches register *infinitely* higher on the hype-o-meter, you can't complain when there's not much comment about Google's efforts here.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> maybe their version of the Palm wireless charger with some added Nokia newness thrown in, sprinkled with a bit of Apple fairy dust to make it funner.


Highly doubtful, as the new model will have a metal back, which would block the magnetic field.


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> it really felt like I was at an annual meeting of a strange cult. Worship the marginal increase in RAM! Praise be for the slightly faster CPU!


 
thats a cross platform issue really isn't it? lots of people shout about the CPU speed of the latest phone, how much bigger the screen is, how quickly you can load angry birds etc...

i'm really struggling to give a fuck these days to be honest. i think i'm over phones and the related excitement they bring and i'm just in this thread cause i'm bored and killing time waiting for an edit to render.

i certainly have no intention to shell out several hundred quid on a new phone or new pricey contract just so i can have the new shiny shiny.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I've never been to a Google keynote so can't really comment on the atmosphere inside, but I've no doubt it shared some of the characteristics of an Apple event.
> 
> But given that Apple's launches register *infinitely* higher on the hype-o-meter, you can't complain when there's not much comment about Google's efforts here.


 
There was loads of comment here at the time, I was just missing your input.

It was certainly easier to be envious of people attending the Google conference because they got a bunch of hardware freebies including the nexus 7.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Highly doubtful, as the new model will have a metal back, which would block the magnetic field.


I like the authority in which you're making that emphatic statement about the metal back. You should start a tech blog!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> There was loads of comment here at the time, I was just missing your input.


I don't even remember the thread so maybe I was away.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> i'm really struggling to give a fuck these days to be honest. i think i'm over phones and the related excitement they bring and i'm just in this thread cause i'm bored and killing time waiting for an edit to render.


I'm still wedded to my long battery life dumbphone, so I have no vested interest. But phones and tablets are where innovation and interesting things are currently happening in the world of personal computing. It's an interesting design space.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I like the authority in which you're making that emphatic statement about the metal back. You should start a tech blog!


 
I am 99.9% certain, based on the information made available so far.

If the 5 has inductive charging, I'll put brown sauce on my hat, and I hate brown sauce.


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

they really gotta sort their search engine on their site out..

Typing in 'iphone-5' brings up a list of presumably embargoed press releases


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Highly doubtful, as the new model will have a metal back, which would block the magnetic field.


 
Not Kevlar ?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> they really gotta sort their search engine on their site out..
> 
> Typing in 'iphone-5' brings up a list of presumably embargoed press releases


What site? Post 'em up!


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

apple.com


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I'm still wedded to my long battery life dumbphone, so I have no vested interest. But phones and tablets are where innovation and interesting things are currently happening in the world of personal computing. It's an interesting design space.


I know you're not a fan but I'm ready and waiting for the sci-fi high-tech world of wearable computers rather than boring old chunks of smartphone.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> apple.com


 
doesn't from here


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

gabi said:


> apple.com


I'm getting nowt. 
So what do they say? We're not signed up to their embargo deals so spill the beans!


----------



## gabi (Sep 12, 2012)

it's detailed on macrumors.com

presumably apple dont read that as it's still showing them up.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

So what do these supposed embargoed releases say?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm getting nowt.
> So what do they say? We're not signed up to their embargo deals so spill the beans!


It's just URLs, no text

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/12/iphone-5-name-prematurely-revealed-on-apples-site/
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/12...nd-ipod-nano-coming-alongside-iphone-5-today/

New itunes, nano and touch too.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2012)

Things like LTE and iPhone 5 show up in the search field the actual articles are embargoed the links don't work.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Awesomely fascinating video stream from Engadget showing people standing outside the event.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/engadgets-iphone-5-pre-event-broadcast-live-from-san-francisco/


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

The liveblog is here: http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/12/apple-iphone-5-liveblog/


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2012)

Or here:
http://live.arstechnica.com/apple-september-2012-event-its-almost-here/


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Sounds like they are showing a video of people in a frenzy at the new Barcelona store.  No change there then. Expect some graphs showing how much they now have to spend on nightime security to stop people sneaking into their stores for a wank.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

TWiT Tv has a discussion panel monitoring live blogs from the likes of the verge/engadget along with a Tim Cook puppet


----------



## magneze (Sep 12, 2012)

I predict a phone. Tomorrow the world will be much the same as it ever was.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Yeah!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Someone cue: Coldplay!


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Now they are crowing about one thing that they are entitled to at this point in the game - iPad market share, web traffic & sales volumes. Silly numbers.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 12, 2012)

It really is that stretched design then


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

God it really is that awful shape.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Apparently they designed this phone to fit in your hand. What a novel idea.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Letterboxed apps?

Steve Jobs wouldn't have liked that.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Letterboxed apps?
> 
> Steve Jobs wouldn't have liked that.


 
I wouldnt be so sure of that. The 2x mode to run iPhone apps on the iPad wasnt exactly visually stunning. And they will again have the same expectation that a hell of a lot of apps will update quickly to utilise the additional space.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

The worlds thinnest smartphone?


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The worlds thinnest smartphone?


 
until the plastic back cover breaks off your S3


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 12, 2012)

Apple Store is still featuring the 4S..don't they usually update straight away after the conference? Whens it out?


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

The confrence is still ongoing, please wait.

Uh huh huh, he said backside illumination, uh huh huh huh.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 12, 2012)

Thunderbolt and Lightning


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

My word something I actually like - the new connector is reversible so you dont have to make sure you have it the right way round.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

reversible too


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 12, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Thunderbolt and Lightning



very very frightening.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Engadget live blog:


> TIM STEVENS6:39 PM
> People just applauded the new connector! Heartily, even.
> DARREN MURPH6:39 PM
> For the record, I'm weeping at the thought of how many adapters I now have to buy...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Hmmm that stretch design is going to be great for car sat navving.


----------



## spitfire (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hmmm that stretch design is going to be great for car sat navving.


 
The new connector. Not so much. Not for my Tom Tom cradle anyway.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The worlds thinnest smartphone?


Nope.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Photostream didnt cause as many embarrassments and relationship failures as we anticipated, so we are now introducing photostream sharing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2012)

While the Long iPhone isn't the worst thing out of all the rumours that they could have done, it's still a bad idea.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> While the Long iPhone isn't the worst thing out of all the rumours that they could have done, it's still a bad idea.


It just looks a bit odd to my eyes.


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> It just looks a bit odd to my eyes.



I don't like it. meh.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2012)

Looks like a nice bit of kit to me.

WIll have to hold one to see how it looks and feels.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

I believe my hat is safe


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> While the Long iPhone isn't the worst thing out of all the rumours that they could have done, it's still a bad idea.


 
I don't like it but then as long as it does the job its the apps that matter. Not a big fan of this march toward trigger happy style humungous sized phones really...


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

So no NFC. No wireless charging. No micro USB support.
Same prices as the 4S. $199 for 16GB. $299 for 32GB, $399 for 64GB.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 12, 2012)

I''m glad it's not wider or fatter, but I can't say I was crying out for a longer phone either. The design rationale of comfortable one hand use is sensible enough, but I'm not convinced by the change of aspect. There again I'm not one of those people who wants to watch a huge amount of content on a mobile screen.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2012)

Wish they would give up on the 'contract' prices.

I'm not interested in getting a phone on contract any more.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

And now an announcement about music, which may well prove another rumour to be true.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm very unconvinced at the need for NFC on a phone.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2012)

Sunray said:


> I'm very unconvinced at the need for NFC on a phone.


It's pretty irrelevant at the moment, and the iPhone not having it will ensure it continues to be.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Sunray said:


> I'm very unconvinced at the need for NFC on a phone.


Why's that then? It works fantastically well with the new Nokias when combined with wireless charging and it's definitely growing in popularity.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

big update for itunes, but is it just cosmetic?


----------



## tarannau (Sep 12, 2012)

Or magnetic charging or the need for micro USB tbf.Never on the cards really - expectations set up with the hope of being penning disappointments for some no doubt


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2012)

tarannau said:


> I''m glad it's not wider or fatter, but I can't say I was crying out for a longer phone either. The design rationale of comfortable one hand use is sensible enough, but I'm not convinced by the change of aspect. There again I'm not one of those people who wants to watch a huge amount of content on a mobile screen.


It's the aspect change that gets me. If all iPhones suddenly magically changed to be that size, I doubt I'd give a shit. But lack of fragmentation has been an advantage for the platform for a while - two possible screen sizes, both with the same aspect ratio. It's not such a huge change it will break stuff but it shows both a carelessness wrt developers and also, IMO, a lack of vision.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

> "We've given the artist the ability to share photos with you in your library. Here's some photos Coldplay is sharing."


Jesus.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's pretty irrelevant at the moment, and the iPhone not having it will ensure it continues to be.



It's going to be another year at least before it takes off in the uk....


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

tarannau said:


> Or magnetic charging or the need for micro USB tbf.Never on the cards really - expectations set up with the hope of being penning disappointments for some no doubt


Nokia have just introduced wireless charging, Palm had it over two years ago and I wish my Android phone had it, so it's hardly a wild expectation to think that the new iPhone might have it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Not bothered by wireless charging tbh...


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's going to be another year at least before it takes off in the uk....


Actually, it's already taking off in the UK.


> *Post Office plans largest NFC contactless payments rollout in Europe*
> *It will implement the technology across 30,000 counter positions in 11,500 branches*
> 
> The Post Office has revealed plans to roll-out contactless payments technology across its entire network, which will allow Mastercard and Visa customers to make payments of up to £20 using near field communication (NFC) equipped mobile phones across 30,000 counter positions in 11,5000 branches.
> ...





> *Samsung Galaxy S3 contactless NFC payment tested in UK shops*
> 
> I just bought a milkshake with my phone. That's right: I strolled into McDonald's, whipped out my Samsung Galaxy S3, placed it on the card reader for a moment and strode off with a tall drink of chocolatey brain freeze, all thanks to Visa's NFC payment app.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm hoping for an update to Ping.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Nokia have just introduced wireless charging, Palm had it over two years ago and I wish my Android phone had it, so it's hardly a wild expectation to think that the new iPhone might have it.


 
So? I cant say the advantage of charging my phone on or near a fairly large pad is a huge advantage over charging over a much more discrete lead is a huge draw. It's a cool little gimmick atm, but not exactly key to a bold new function or feature set.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Why's that then? It works fantastically well with the new Nokias when combined with wireless charging and it's definitely growing in popularity.


 
NFC and wireless charging are not connected(sic).

I see both as solutions for problems that didn't need solving. There are better things to spend time fixing. Better battery life for instance.

Tell me a real use for it? If its payments, I already do that with my debit card and I'm happier with my bank handling those sorts of things. I still have to take something out of my pocket, so it solved nothing in particular. Any other takers? Zipcar perhaps? That uses an app so you can unlock it before you even reach the car.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

tarannau said:


> So? I cant say the advantage of charging my phone on or near a fairly large pad is a huge advantage over charging over a much more discrete lead is a huge draw. It's a cool little gimmick atm, but not exactly key to a bold new function or feature set.


The Palm charger is tiny. And it was a very handy feature.

If you had a go on one, you might say the same too, unless you particularly like plugging in cables (which can fall behind the desk/get damaged/break etc etc).


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 12, 2012)

tarannau said:


> So? I cant say the advantage of charging my phone on or near a fairly large pad is a huge advantage over charging over a much more discrete lead is a huge draw. It's a cool little gimmick atm, but not exactly key to a bold new function or feature set.



I think the advantage would be charging when out and about. Coffee table recharging points would be very handy if you get caught short.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Sunray said:


> NFC and wireless charging are not connected(sic).


I didn't say that they were. I said that Nokia _*combined*_ the two technologies to provide something that is really rather good.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Ok nanos are new....meh...


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

spacemonkey said:


> I think the advantage would be charging when out and about. Coffee table recharging points would be very handy if you get caught short.


Indeed. Just put your phone down as you have a coffee and it'll be charged up. Got to be better than trying to find a power point and then snaking a cable across the floor.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

I quite like the new iPod nano's.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Actually, it's already taking off in the UK.



Heh yeah big difference between there being receivers everywhere and people using them. I deal with mobile tech companies all the time and every one of them isn't seeing mobile payments like this as a big thing for at least another year.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Actually, it's already taking off in the UK.


If you have this symbol on your cashcard


Then you can use it already. NFC is just Oyster Card tech. Very very small amount of information transfered without any power requirements for the client device. Better to wave a plastic card around to pay for things than an expensive phone, IMO.
 


elbows said:


> I quite like the new iPod nano's.


ditto. cute little iphones


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

Nano with bluetooth (sport headphones)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Like the stylings of the new iPod touch though...next version of the iPhone?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I deal with mobile tech companies all the time and every one of them isn't seeing mobile payments like this as a big thing for at least another year.


Strange then that the GSMA - an association of mobile operators and related companies devoted to supporting the standardising, deployment and promotion of the GSM mobile telephone system - are insisting that "Mobile payments and NFC tech are big in UK"


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> I'm hoping for an update to Ping.



Lol!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Like the stylings of the new iPod touch though...next version of the iPhone?


Too thin. Battery technology is the bottleneck.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Too thin. Battery technology is the bottleneck.



Well the style was what I was talking bout more than the thinness although a touch thin phone would be cool.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Indeed. Just put your phone down as you have a coffee and it'll be charged up. Got to be better than trying to find a power point and then snaking a cable across the floor.


 
You can just pick up the cable.  It doesn't need 100 million quid R&D development cost.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Better to wave a plastic card around to pay for things than an expensive phone, IMO.


You think it's better to get out your wallet instead and then fumble through all your cards to find the right one?

Mobile NFC is definitely coming.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Strange then that the GSMA - an association of mobile operators and related companies devoted to supporting the standardising, deployment and promotion of the GSM mobile telephone system - are insisting that "Mobile payments and NFC tech are big in UK"


 
I dont yet know anything much about NFC but wouldnt you expect an organisation with that brief to rather hype it up?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Strange then that the GSMA - an association of mobile operators and related companies devoted to supporting the standardising, deployment and promotion of the GSM mobile telephone system - are insisting that "Mobile payments and NFC tech are big in UK"


Well they would say that. I have yet to use my NFC debit card, or in fact see anyone else using one, let alone anyone using a phone to pay for stuff.

I remember we were all supposed to be paying for stuff with Bluetooth and SMS by now a few years ago.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

iPod touch loop?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2012)

Apple patent 10-8765-32 Loop iPod touch.


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> You think it's better to get out your wallet instead and then fumble through all your cards to find the right one?
> 
> Mobile NFC is definitely coming.


 
no, you just slap the whole lot down and it works... i'd rather be doing that than trying to dig my phone out


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

I wonder how much the siri servers will be hammered by kids trying it out on the new ipod touch.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well they would say that. I have yet to use my NFC debit card, or in fact see anyone else using one, let alone anyone using a phone to pay for stuff.
> 
> I remember we were all supposed to be paying for stuff with Bluetooth and SMS by now a few years ago.



Yup like I said the companies I deal with are in the business of making money from this, if they say it's not taken off yet I'm more inclined to believe them.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> Well they would say that. I have yet to use my NFC debit card, or in fact see anyone else using one, let alone anyone using a phone to pay for stuff.
> 
> I remember we were all supposed to be paying for stuff with Bluetooth and SMS by now a few years ago.



I use mine a lot. Card got cloned recently. Not sure if related.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> I dont yet know anything much about NFC but wouldnt you expect an organisation with that brief to rather hype it up?


Why would they "hype it up" over any other phone related technology?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup like I said the companies I deal with are in the business of making money from this, if they say it's not taken off yet I'm more inclined to believe them.


Who are these companies?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Ear bud change time. So far all those rumors and leaks that people were too quick to dismiss have been spot on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Who are these companies?



Oh yeah because I'm going to post commercially sensitive information on a bulletin board lol!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Amazing Apple have woken up to the idea that their earphones are utter shit!


----------



## Badgers (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Amazing Apple have woken up to the idea that their earphones are utter shit!



Had nobody told them OVER AND OVER AGAIN?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> no, you just slap the whole lot down and it works... i'd rather be doing that than trying to dig my phone out


Mobile NFC - or something very similar - is going to happen and people will one day look back in amazement when people used to carry around wallets and purses stuffed full of endless different membership cards, vouchers, travel passes and the like.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Had nobody told them OVER AND OVER AGAIN?



Innit! Worst fucking earphones EVER!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh yeah because I'm going to post commercially sensitive information on a bulletin board lol!


Then don't keep referring to them to back up your argument then.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Why would they "hype it up" over any other phone related technology?


 
As they are trying to promote mobiles they will go for promoting any emerging tech that can drive sales and progress. Being able to say 'ooh your phone can replace your wallet' is a no brainer for their marketing bods.

The milk marketing board were not exactly the ultimate fountain of all milky truths, and I'm not going to treat a modern equivalent as an accurate guide to the state of tech adoption.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

The new ones are still solid lumps of plastic - therefore they will fall out of my ears


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ear bud change time. So far all those rumors and leaks that people were too quick to dismiss have been spot on.


Who was "too quick to dimiss" the ear bud rumours?


----------



## Badgers (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Innit! Worst fucking earphones EVER!



Awful. Like fitting a Ferrari with a Goodmans stereo.


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The new ones are still solid lumps of plastic - therefore they will fall out of my ears



They scanned millions of ears, and discounted 95% of them. I've never found any that really work in mine. Shame, I hate lugging round big earphones.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Does any money actually get made off these product red things? Can't ever remember seeing someone with one tbh...


----------



## Badgers (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:
			
		

> The new ones are still solid lumps of plastic - therefore they will fall out of my ears



What has your plastic surgeon said about this?


----------



## mauvais (Sep 12, 2012)

I certainly haven't seen anything this revolutionary since the introduction of whatever the last revolutionary iPhone was!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

mauvais said:


> I certainly haven't seen anything this revolutionary since the introduction of whatever the last revolutionary iPhone was!


So many revolutions, I feel all dizzy


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Then don't keep referring to them to back up your argument then.



Lol you twat!


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Mobile NFC - or something very similar - is going to happen and people will one day look back in amazement when people used to carry around wallets and purses stuffed full of endless different membership cards, vouchers, travel passes and the like.


 

sure the powers that be have been longing for a cashless society for donkeys years, but until we have NFC enabled weed dealers and emergency plumbers i predict resistance to it


----------



## mauvais (Sep 12, 2012)

I certainly haven't seen anything this revolutionary since the introduction of whatever the last revolutionary iPhone was!

Clearer text there.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 12, 2012)

I certainly haven't seen anything this revolutionary since the introduction of whatever the last revolutionary iPhone was!

Posted that one 25% faster.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Awful. Like fitting a Ferrari with a Goodmans stereo.



Totally, I've never understood why they spent so many years making the iPod/iPhone work so well and yet did fuck all about the earphones. Very odd.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 12, 2012)

I certainly haven't seen anything this revolutionary since the introduction of whatever the last revolutionary iPhone was!

You owe me $399. See you next year!


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Who was "too quick to dimiss" the ear bud rumours?


 
I'm not sure if we even talked about the earbud rumours much here. I dont think that was the point, the point was more general, that there was an excessive amount of disbelief about this years iPhone rumour season. I know because it lead me to waffle on repeatedly about people such as yourself going a bit overboard about how often the rumours turn about to be complete bullshit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Foo Fighters. Blimey!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> I'm not sure if we even talked about the earbud rumours much here. I dont think that was the point, the point was more general, that there was an excessive amount of disbelief about this years iPhone rumour season. I know because it lead me to waffle on repeatedly about people such as yourself going a bit overboard about how often the rumours turn about to be complete bullshit.



I was speaking about the rumours generally and unfortunately didn't make that clear enough for mr pedant...


----------



## Badgers (Sep 12, 2012)

Any news on the iPhone6?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 12, 2012)

Don't you think Tim Cook looked thinner?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> The milk marketing board were not exactly the ultimate fountain of all milky truths, and I'm not going to treat a modern equivalent as an accurate guide to the state of tech adoption.


Apple already have a patent for mobile NFC, btw.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Any news on the iPhone6?



Yup, rumours have just started:

It'll be the slimmest most powerful iPhone yet! *high fives*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> Don't you think Tim Cook looked thinner?



Hadn't noticed tbh. Did he?


----------



## mauvais (Sep 12, 2012)

In all seriousness I was really looking forward to the new 161GB iPod Classic.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hadn't noticed tbh. Did he?


At least 20% thinner I'd say.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> At least 20% thinner I'd say.



Heh ok.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol you twat!


 
Actually there have been a number of times where you have tried to use your work to demonstrate your superior professional knowledge, and its bloody annoying without any detail. Obviously there all manner of specifics that it may be unwise for you to go into, but if you are going to be pompous every once in a while you ought to back it up with something other than how many twitter feeds you consume as a pro.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> Don't you think Tim Cook looked thinner?


He's a fitness freak - he looks rather frail for a 51 year old.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 12, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:
			
		

> At least 20% thinner I'd say.



Pfffft... The rumour mill said he had lost 25% weight using the drm diet


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

How many more of these woefully underwhelming and massively over-hyped launches can Apple get away with before the media finally starts to lose interest?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> Actually there have been a number of times where you have tried to use your work to demonstrate your superior professional knowledge, and its bloody annoying without any detail. Obviously there all manner of specifics that it may be unwise for you to go into, but if you are going to be pompous every once in a while you ought to back it up with something other than how many twitter feeds you consume as a pro.


Indeed.  Spot on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Worlds worst strap line?


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Apple already have a patent for mobile NFC, btw.


 
I'm not trying to make a case that NFC will never take off, Im just saying that I wouldnt listen to the people with a business interest in hyping it when trying to determine how far its adoption has already taken off.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Worlds worst strap line?



It is skirting dangerously close to becoming a parody of itself, although Apple have always been a bit like that.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

bottom headphone jack


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> It is skirting dangerously close to becoming a parody of itself, although Apple have always been a bit like that.



It's terrible, like marketing done by Chris Morris.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's terrible, like marketing done by Chris Morris.


 
Nah if that were the case I would actually like it.

I rarely miss an opportunity to post this.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Nothing about iCloud.com getting apps...


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

The 4G LTE is going to work on EE in the UK then.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19572820


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

The only thing that caught my eye was the ipod nano.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nothing about iCloud.com getting apps...


 
I bet they still have burnt fingers from MobileMe, and since they'd rather sell devices with app store apps they arent very focussed on doing things via website functionality these days.

Unless you meant something else. We already know iCloud is getting app storage API for developers to use, that detail came out when iOS 6 was announced if I remember correctly.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> bottom headphone jack


That's a really crap idea.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 12, 2012)

Meh


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> I bet they still have burnt fingers from MobileMe, and since they'd rather sell devices with app store apps they arent very focussed on doing things via website functionality these days.
> 
> Unless you meant something else. We already know iCloud is getting app storage API for developers to use, that detail came out when iOS 6 was announced if I remember correctly.



Well they accidentally let everyone see them earlier this year (Reminders and Notes) so they're working on them if only for their apps...


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> That's a really crap idea.


really crap but not as crap as changing the dock connector


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2012)

If you put your hand into your pocket and wrap your fingers round your phone and pull it out and hold it up, which end of your pocket was the top of the phone in?

When you are holding your phone in front of you, while wearing headphones, which end of the phone is closer to your ears?

Have you ever been bothered by a headphone cable looping over and getting in the way of the screen?

I think the bottom is the best place for the headphone lead to come out, along with the USB lead, nice and tidy.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> really crap but not as crap as changing the dock connector


I can forgive that now they've made it reversible.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> That's a really crap idea.


 
It's kind of useful if you carry your phone in your pocket and have it facing top down. Samsung did the same with the Nexus and I much prefer it that way to the S2.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Crispy said:


> If you put your hand into your pocket and wrap your fingers round your phone and pull it out and hold it up, which end of your pocket was the top of the phone in?


And if it's in your shirt pocket?  Jacket pocket? 

I've had phones with sockets at both ends and I much prefer the jack at the top  - and it looks like I'm in the majority according to this not-exactly-scientific-but-still noteworthy poll of 8,800 voters.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

I'd have to use it to form an opinion on the oh so important issue of the position of a hole on a phone.


----------



## Winot (Sep 12, 2012)

So what's the word on when iOS6 is being released then?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 12, 2012)

In my experience, phone in a shirt pocket is almost always a bad idea. Bend over to pick something up, out slips the phone... smash 

In my jacket, sure I would put the phone the right way up but upside down isn't a big deal on the handful of occasions when I'm wearing a jacket *and* lisnening to my phone with earphones. I have my phone more often in my jeans than my jacket so headphone jack on the bottom suits me (tbf in LA... jackets aren't worn as often either).


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2012)

Winot said:


> So what's the word on when iOS6 is being released then?


 
the n-n-n-n-n-nineteenth of this month apparently.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Did many people complain about the socket being on the top of all the previous iPhones or has moving it to the bottom suddenly become a really great idea?

I can't say I've ever had a phone drop out of my shirt/jacket/coat pocket, btw.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I can't say I've ever had a phone drop out of my shirt/jacket/coat pocket, btw.


 
I've very nearly done something like this on more than enough occasions to put me off ever putting a phone in my shirt pocket


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 12, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Any news on the iPhone6?


The biggest thing to happen to iPhone since iPhone5 

My 3GS is becoming woefully slow, so I think an upgrade may be on the horizon


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Winot said:


> So what's the word on when iOS6 is being released then?



A week today.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Did many people complain about the socket being on the top of all the previous iPhones or has moving it to the bottom suddenly become a really great idea?
> 
> I can't say I've ever had a phone drop out of my shirt/jacket/coat pocket, btw.


 
I don't really think it matters. It will go into my pocket with the cable trailing at the top. Currently I drop it in, with a new one I'll twist it in.

Its an iPhone, along with all the other smart phones out there, the hardware is of little interest to me really. Its nice to have a nice handset but iOS6 and the speed and anti shake video are the reasons to buy it for me.

Plus after asking a few times I'll ask again.  *APART* from payment, why NFC? Do you want your mobile company dealing with fraud related issues, I certainly don't, they can't even bill you correctly. Their billing software has become so massive and complicated,  OFCOM allow them to be an average of 8% out over all their bills.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2012)

What I really think is of great value is LTE.  By being the 1st truly popular phone with it as standard it will drive the operators to get in there to get competitive advantage.  Want 100Mb/s on your iPhone?  Subscribe to T-Mobile as they have been given the green light to use existing spectrum for LTE.

LTE stands for Long Term Evolution, its a standard that is scalable and I've heard of demos that have reached 1Gb/s


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Plus after asking a few times I'll ask again. *APART* from payment, why NFC? Do you want your mobile company dealing with fraud related issues, I certainly don't, they can't even bill you correctly.


Why wouldn't fraud issues be dealt with by the bank?  To me the benefits of NFC are strikingly obvious. Why carry around a wallet stuffed full of Oyster cards, bank cards, membership cards, loyalty cards, vouchers and more when you can have them all in one place where you can keep track of their usage?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 12, 2012)

Not to mention wireless audio, enabling you to connect with speakers with a single 'smack down' contact*








*or gentle touch, depending on how gnarly you want to be.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Sunray said:


> What I really think is of great value is LTE. By being the 1st truly popular phone with it as standard it will drive the operators to get in there to get competitive advantage.


Apart from the Samsung Galaxy S3 LTE of course, which was demoed on BBC yesterday. And it's not so straightforward for other operators to compete either:


> *When will the UK get 4G?*
> 
> The short answer is September: Ofcom says that Everything Everywhere can begin to offer 4G mobile broadband in the UK from the 11th of September. EE says it'll be announcing 4G phones "later this year", but initially 4G will be pitched at mobile dongle users.
> *How come we're getting 4G before the 4G auction?*
> ...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 12, 2012)

To me, one of the the best things still about iphones (and ipads) is the AirPlay facility to just mirror your video onto the TV.

Can't see much else I'm missing that my Galaxy Nexus doesn't do.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> Not to mention wireless audio, enabling you to connect with speakers with a single 'smack down' contact*
> 
> *or gentle touch, depending on how gnarly you want to be.


That looked ace in the Nokia promo. It works with my Nexus 7 and my Nokia receiver too. Come into a room playing music on my tablet, tap it on the receiver and the music streams through my hi-fi. Neat!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

Sunray said:


> What I really think is of great value is LTE.  By being the 1st truly popular phone with it as standard it will drive the operators to get in there to get competitive advantage.  Want 100Mb/s on your iPhone?  Subscribe to T-Mobile as they have been given the green light to use existing spectrum for LTE.
> 
> LTE stands for Long Term Evolution, its a standard that is scalable and I've heard of demos that have reached 1Gb/s



1gb/s on a phone would be sweeeeeet!


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 12, 2012)

This has to be the most underwhelmed tech thread I've seen on here. Even the trolling is half-assed


High Five!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> This has to be the most underwhelmed tech thread I've seen on here. Even the trolling is half-assed
> 
> 
> High Five!


High five backatcha!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Just when I was starting to think that The Verge may not be as bad as the rest of the gushing fanboy sites:


> Schiller bounced out of a holding area near the iPhone 5 demo tables with a big smile on his face, surrounded by Apple PR flacks and a variety of handlers — but he was all too happy to talk about the new phone. "What did you think?" he asked before I could get a question out. A*fter telling him I thought the new device was handsome and reaffirmed my desire to "make love to it"* (his response: "we'll get you two a room")...
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/12/3323248/phil-schiller-iphone-5-completely-new-phone


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> This has to be the most underwhelmed tech thread I've seen on here. Even the trolling is half-assed
> 
> 
> High Five!



Well it's not like there's anything new to discuss, phone making corporation releases slightly longer version of last years fun with better battery life...


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Interesting comparison between the new iPhone, S3 and the Lumnia 920 here, although the authors are a bit daft to include a 'final verdict' when they haven't actually touched an iPhone 5.

They're spot on with this comment, mind: "NFC, which makes it possible to share content across phones and pay for purchases, might not be a big deal to you, but it is an entire category of software capability that's closed on the iPhone 5."

Oh, and here's another one:


> There's not much in it, and the Apple faithful will likely see nothing that will make them change their ways, but our first impressions of the iPhone 5 suggest that Apple really have a fight on their hands this time around. A great camera, superb screen and innovative software features prove Samsung really pushed the boat out with the Galaxy S3. iOS remains the superior operating system, but aside from 4G connectivity, it's seemingly a smaller, incremental update for the iPhone this time around. As a fashion statement, the iPhone 5 still looks the business, but it is pricey and offers scant few features over its now cheaper Samsung rival.


http://www.techdigest.tv/2012/09/iphone_5_vs_sam.html


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2012)

Lordy. The pricing is sky high: 


> UK pricing for Apple's iPhone 5 has been revealed, with the next-generation iOS smartphone given a steep £529 price tag.
> 
> And that, presumably, is just for the entry level, unlocked 16GB model, with Apple expected to announce further pricing on 14 September, the day that pre-order sales open. In the US, the iPhone will cost (at what we believe to be carrier subsidised prices) $199 for the 16GB version, $299 for 32GB and $399 for 64GB. While UK contract prices are likewise expected to be significantly cheaper than £529, it again seems that UK iPhone buyers will be paying a premium over their American cousins.
> 
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2012)

lol

"it might have all the apps and be easier to use but look at the processor speed!" This is why gadget blogs fail.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

Anyone have any figures on how many of the units sold of previous iPhones are via contract versus bought outright?


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

Here's one person most displeased with the change of connector. I think she might have a point though.


> Apple calls the new connector Lightning, but giving it a clever name doesn't mean it adds anything but dollars in Apple's bank account.
> 
> The company has legendarily built a strong business on licensing its proprietary connection technology to accessory makers, and in selling its own premium cables for a handy $19 each, plus $29 for adapters. But as the rest of the tech industry moves to a standard micro-USB charging format, Apple's decision is unwelcome in a time of smaller budgets for most shoppers and it's ecologically irresponsible, to boot.
> 
> ...


http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-5...connector-change-is-awful-dont-kid-yourselves

I do like the _both-direction-ness_ of the new connector though.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 13, 2012)

I skimmed the keynote video on the apple website this morning whilst having coffee before leaving for work. Now it maybe because i didn't sleep that well, but I wanted to kill each of those smug pricks right in the face. Talk about hyperbole and slick marketing. Why is this phone the best they have ever made? Why is it so awesome? Why is the machine process so advanced? Gimps.
I found the whole thing nauseating and I speak as someone who buys and uses apple products.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Lordy. The pricing is sky high:


The iPhone 5 32g model is £599, the same price I paid for the iPhone 4 over 2 years ago.

A quick search for PAYG cash price
iPhone 5 16g @ £529.00
Galaxy S3 16g @ £499.99


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2012)

People seem to forget what the 30 pin connector carries

http://www.allpinouts.org/index.php/Apple_iPod,_iPad_and_iPhone_dock

including video, all the pods can be plugged into the tv to watch videos.  How would that be replicated with a micro usb?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> I skimmed the keynote video on the apple website this morning whilst having coffee before leaving for work. Now it maybe because i didn't sleep that well, but I wanted to kill each of those smug pricks right in the face. Talk about hyperbole and slick marketing. Why is this phone the best they have ever made? Why is it so awesome? Why is the machine process so advanced? Gimps.
> I found the whole thing nauseating and I speak as someone who buys and uses apple products.


 
Its marketing, they are hardly going to rock up and tell everyone its shit.   There is a jeweller in this country that no longer exists because their chairman did exactly that.


----------



## magneze (Sep 13, 2012)

Sunray said:


> What I really think is of great value is LTE. By being the 1st truly popular phone with it as standard it will drive the operators to get in there to get competitive advantage. Want 100Mb/s on your iPhone? Subscribe to T-Mobile as they have been given the green light to use existing spectrum for LTE.
> 
> LTE stands for Long Term Evolution, its a standard that is scalable and I've heard of demos that have reached 1Gb/s


Except that T-Mobile and Orange won't be offering LTE it seems. EE will be offering it, at a premium, allowing T-Mobile and Orange to eventually die.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 13, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Its marketing, they are hardly going to rock up and tell everyone its shit. There is a jeweller in this country that no longer exists because their chairman did exactly that.


But Gerald Ratner didn't make me hate myself.


----------



## gabi (Sep 13, 2012)

£530 for a phone? no thanks. i'll stick to my current combo of £30 phone and £120 ipod (which is actually a nicer bit of kit in some ways than an iphone)


----------



## dooley (Sep 13, 2012)

i've had an s2 for 18 months now and it still annoys me. my contract may be 6 months shorter and £20 a month cheaper than the equiv iphone one but that doesnt mean squat when every time you go to use the satnav it asks you whether you want to use the gps chip, or when the battery dies it resets all the power settings/email push, or overheats and reboots. it feels like your paying for the privilege of being a beta tester.

either i'll go sim only on my old BB or stump up for this new iphone. i'm just pee'd off its only orange doing the 4g, i've been with them for 15 years and i was ready to finally jump ship


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2012)

magneze said:


> Except that T-Mobile and Orange won't be offering LTE it seems. EE will be offering it, at a premium, allowing T-Mobile and Orange to eventually die.


 
Same company. They merged and that's the re-brand.


----------



## magneze (Sep 13, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Same company. They merged and that's the re-brand.


I know, but you won't be able to get 4G without a new contract for extra £. At least that's the impression given here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/11/ee_brand/


> Orange and T-Mobile customers will also be restricted to the existing 3G network, allowing EE to bump up the price of 4G when customers upgrade, as well as abandoning the Orange and T-Mobile brands to a slow death as customers seep away.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2012)

O2 have been trialling LTE in London for a while now.  I am hoping an LTE iPhone will kick them all up the arse in this respect.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5269-vodafone-and-o2-announce-plans-to-share-4g-lte-network.html


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2012)

You lot and your 4G. We've only just had 3G and even that is patchy as hell!


----------



## magneze (Sep 13, 2012)

Sunray said:


> O2 have been trialling LTE in London for a while now. I am hoping an LTE iPhone will kick them all up the arse in this respect.
> 
> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5269-vodafone-and-o2-announce-plans-to-share-4g-lte-network.html


EE have LTE exclusively until end of next year. Needless to say Vodafone & O2 are not best pleased.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't really see the point of LTE if the networks are going to limit downloads to 1Gb a month could use that up just surfing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

Fast downloads without unlimited data is pointless in my view, in fact any net access on a phone without unlimited data is a waste of time for me...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2012)

magneze said:


> EE have LTE exclusively until end of next year. Needless to say Vodafone & O2 are not best pleased.


 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/31/o2_4g_appeal/


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> You lot and your 4G. We've only just had 3G and even that is patchy as hell!


 
I live in Central London, anything shiny and new I'll be 1st in line to get it.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

Sunray said:


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/31/o2_4g_appeal/


It's a right mess already.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

Heh, introducing the future of the iPhone.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

It's all a bit messy with the adapters.



> *Apple's new iPhone 5 uses the equally new Lightning connector, but what does that mean for your old accessories?*
> 
> One of the key changes on the new iPhone 5 is the introduction of the Lightning, a new cable replacement for the old 30-pin connector, introduced nearly ten years ago, that we all know and (sometimes) love.
> 
> ...


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 13, 2012)

I'd be shocked if there's not 3rd party adaptors selling at a fraction of the price within weeks.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 13, 2012)

Depends if the adapter has any smarts in it or if it's just a pin router.


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 13, 2012)

Where did they get the 1136x640 resolution from? 

How come its so cheap over in the US, $199 for the 16gb and so expensive over here, £500+?


----------



## pesh (Sep 13, 2012)

so basically every ipod and iphone dock in the world will become landfill when the current devices break and people upgrade.

it's been standard for what, 10 years? everywhere you look there are those connecters floating around, we've got about 8 of the cables and 3 docks between us in our house.

i definitely won't be bothering with any new iphones after this one breaks. maybe a reconditioned 4S if there still isnt an Android i want by then.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> I'd be shocked if there's not 3rd party adaptors selling at a fraction of the price within weeks.



Yup, if that didn't happen it'd be very surprising indeed.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 13, 2012)

FaradayCaged said:


> Where did they get the 1136x640 resolution from?


Same width as the previous model, but extended to a 16:9 aspect ratio.


> How come its so cheap over in the US, $199 for the 16gb and so expensive over here, £500+?


$199 is with contract. £529 is without.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

FaradayCaged said:


> Where did they get the 1136x640 resolution from?
> 
> How come its so cheap over in the US, $199 for the 16gb and so expensive over here, £500+?



Contract price versus bought outright price?


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Depends if the adapter has any smarts in it or if it's just a pin router.


And knowing Apple.....


----------



## Crispy (Sep 13, 2012)

The 30 pin dock connector has analog audio connectors. I will get out my hat condiments if the adapter hasn't got a digital-analog audio chip in it to maintain compatability.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2012)

Bit underwhelmed by the anouncement of this, but Ill blates end up getting one. I'm just too heavily invested in apps etc now to even consider other stuff........

The only other thing I would have considered is the samsung s3 anyway...... had a look at my mates the other day, it just seemed a bit 'plasticy' to me.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

sim667 said:


> ..... had a look at my mates the other day, it just seemed a bit 'plasticy' to me.


It's also a bit 'over-a-hundred-quid cheapery' too.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 13, 2012)

The video of yesterday's event (Apple site)


----------



## big eejit (Sep 13, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Bit underwhelmed by the anouncement of this, but Ill blates end up getting one. I'm just too heavily invested in apps etc now to even consider other stuff........
> 
> The only other thing I would have considered is the samsung s3 anyway...... had a look at my mates the other day, it just seemed a bit 'plasticy' to me.


 
Good review of 10 alternatives here:

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/13/product_round_up_ten_iphone_5_challengers/


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 13, 2012)

> An undercover reporter joined thousands on the production line battling to meet deadlines for iPhone 5


Guardian


----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2012)

big eejit said:


> Good review of 10 alternatives here:
> 
> http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/13/product_round_up_ten_iphone_5_challengers/


 
But they still wont run iOS apps.....

I think ive spent the equivalent of a new iphone in apps and music 

thanks for the link here.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Guardian


Truly shameful stuff and much of this is just to ensure that Apple can have a big high-fiving launch.


> ...Wang complains of having to work on 3,000 phones during a 10-hour shift, paid only 27 yuan ($4.27) for two hours' overtime.
> 
> "An iPhone 5 back-plate run through in front of me almost every 3 seconds. I have to pickup the back-plate and marked 4 position points using the oil-based paint pen and put it back on the running belt swiftly within 3 seconds with no errors. After such repeat action for several hours, I have terrible neckache and muscle pain on my arm. A new worker who sat opposite of me gone exhausted and laid down for a short while. The supervisor has noticed him and punished him by asking him to stand at one corner for 10 minutes like the old school days. We worked non-stop from midnight to the next morning 6 am but were still asked to keep on working as the production line is based on running belt and no one is allowed to stop. I'm so starving and fully exhausted."


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

Best comment on the Guardian article:


> Truth is, nobody really cares. They'll be fighting each other to get it first and the excuse will be - Apple's not so bad, everyone's doing it. Just a wee bit self control by consumers for a week or two and this whole thing could change massively.


 
Swiftly followed by:


> a wee bit of self control by the guardian would help too, i mean on the day the hillborough report is released the apple launch still get more space on the web front page
> 
> all for a phone that's a bit bigger etc..and £500...WTF, who is buying this stuff? just so they can play games on the way home?
> 
> our lives must truly be shallow for these things to make such headlines


----------



## Structaural (Sep 13, 2012)

Terrible I know, but you're like a bloke standing outside McDonald's eating a Burger King going:

'Do you know what they put in them burgers!'


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Terrible I know, but you're like a bloke standing outside McDonald's eating a Burger King going:
> 
> 'Do you know what they put in them burgers!'


Oh, I'd best hush then.
Don't want to spoil your face stuffing enjoyment.


----------



## pesh (Sep 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Best comment on the Guardian article:


and from the Guardian link just above that comment



> Samsung Electronics, the world's largest mobile and smartphone maker, is being accused of exploiting younger workers and using factories inChina where some employees were physically and verbally abused, and forced to work more than 100 hours per month of overtime.
> China Labor Watch, a New York-based organisation set up by Chinese activist Li Quang in 2000, also alleges that its investigation of six Samsung-owned plants and two of its suppliers showed that safety measures – such as providing protective clothing for workers – were not followed.
> Workers were barred from sitting during shifts and some suffered physical and verbal abuse


 
just as shameful really.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

pesh said:


> and from the Guardian link just above that comment
> 
> just as shameful really.


This has already been discussed elsewhere and was rightly condemned too. Samsung have already responded to the report.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2012)

pesh said:


> and from the Guardian link just above that comment
> 
> 
> 
> just as shameful really.


 
I addition to that with samsung, its worth bearing in mind that they're also a very large arms manufacturer, probably responsible for many many more deaths then the entirety of other foxconn clients put together.

I dont like the guardian particularly, but at least they've got the decency to put this at the bottom


> This is very far from being only Apple's problem, of course. Foxconn manufactures parts for just about every other consumer tech firm too (the company's most recent corporate social responsibility report from 2010 cites 935,000 employees, so it is _enormous_), including HP, Sony-Ericsson, Amazon and Dell. It makes the Kindle and Wii as well as iPhones and iPads, and until recently made Xbox consoles.


 
Most media outlets just totally overlook this fact in a barrage of shoddy reporting 

However this is a discussion about the iPhone, and not foxconn.


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Same width as the previous model, but extended to a 16:9 aspect ratio.
> 
> $199 is with contract. £529 is without.


 
Ah right, I thought the $199 they were advertising was non contract. Thanks.

Just seems an odd resolution to me; makes sense making it 16:9 though they could have gone with a more common and more marketable resolution such as 1280x720.


----------



## pesh (Sep 13, 2012)

editor said:


> This has already been discussed elsewhere and was rightly condemned too. Samsung have already responded to the report.


 
in much the same way apple did. i'm sure everything is just fine now, the apple line will have slowed right down and all the samsung workers will have been given swivel chairs, gloves and less physical abuse.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 13, 2012)

FaradayCaged said:


> Ah right, I thought the $199 they were advertising was non contract. Thanks.
> 
> Just seems an odd resolution to me; makes sense making it 16:9 though they could have gone with a more common and more marketable resolution such as 1280x720.


It's much easier for backwards compatibility this way. Marketing has nothing to do with it: How many people know how many pixels their screen has?


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

pesh said:


> in much the same way apple did.


Apple don't "do" swift responses of any kind.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> It's much easier for backwards compatibility this way. Marketing has nothing to do with it: How many people know how many pixels their screen has?


I don't actually know how many my S2 has, apart from 'more then enough.'


----------



## Crispy (Sep 13, 2012)

Exactly


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Exactly


I had to look it up!

I think - as with body thinness - screens have long reached the point where any improvements are going to be so incremental that they're effectively imperceivable to the average consumer.


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> How many people know how many pixels their screen has?


 
The resolution is a deciding factor on choosing phones/tablets for me though. I suppose I'm a bit odd like that, everything is details and specs with me.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 13, 2012)

editor said:


> I had to look it up!
> 
> I think - as with body thinness - screens have long reached the point where any improvements are going to be so incremental that they're effectively imperceivable to the average consumer.


Same goes for hardware as a whole, really.
The real game changer, for me anyway, will be when (if) they can get more than a couple of days' battery life out of them.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> It's much easier for backwards compatibility this way. Marketing has nothing to do with it: How many people know how many pixels their screen has?


 
Ive got an iphone 4 and no idea how many pixels it has


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Same goes for hardware as a whole, really.
> The real game changer, for me anyway, will be when (if) they can get more than a couple of days' battery life out of them.


Indeed. I'd be happy to stick with my current (apparently) modest screen res and have a longer battery life.

I don't spend any time with the screen inches from my face, so all these super high res screens seem pretty pointless to me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> It's much easier for backwards compatibility this way. Marketing has nothing to do with it: How many people know how many pixels their screen has?



No idea but I could see how amazingly better it looked compared to my 3GS which I think is more an issue.


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't spend any time with the screen inches from my face, so all these super high res screens seem pretty pointless to me.


 
Does that apply to tablets too? Because the rumours of an iPad mini with 1024x768 screen res had you going on about what a competitive disadvantage that would be.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> Does that apply to tablets too? Because the rumours of an iPad mini with 1024x768 screen res had you going on about what a competitive disadvantage that would be.


Um, there's a slight difference between a little phone screen and a much larger tablet screen, you know.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Same goes for hardware as a whole, really.
> The real game changer, for me anyway, will be when (if) they can get more than a couple of days' battery life out of them.


Yep. Battery tech is the limiting factor now. Is there anything on the horizon that's going to change this?


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> Does that apply to tablets too? Because the rumours of an iPad mini with 1024x768 screen res had you going on about what a competitive disadvantage that would be.


 

The iPad's 4:3 screen baffles me, with 16:9 being the standard for TV's etc.


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Um, there's a slight difference between a little phone screen and a much larger tablet screen, you know.


 
Yeah which is why I was asking for clarification, especially as in the past you suggested the retina display of the iPad 3 was of little interest to pro photographers.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2012)

FaradayCaged said:


> The iPad's 4:3 screen baffles me, with 16:9 being the standard for TV's etc.


A TV isn't a tablet. The 4:3 ratio is one of the things that make the iPad better than anything else available. 16:9 is shit for tablets and arguably for laptops as well.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 13, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A TV isn't a tablet. The 4:3 ratio is one of the things that make the iPad better than anything else available. 16:9 is shit for tablets and arguably for laptops as well.


This. Laptops in particular. Desktop interfaces (the conventions for which were all laid out in when 4:3 was the norm) are all in horizontal strips, so compressing the screen in that direction is particularly damaging.


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 13, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A TV isn't a tablet. The 4:3 ratio is one of the things that make the iPad better than anything else available. 16:9 is shit for tablets and arguably for laptops as well.


 
I understand a tablet is not a TV, however, lots of 16:9 content would be watched on it.

I prefer 16:10 for laptops, I quite like the 16:10 screen on the nexus 7 too. 16:10 or 16:9 IMO makes a lot more sense for tablets than 4:3.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> Yeah which is why I was asking for clarification, especially as in the past you suggested the retina display of the iPad 3 was of little interest to pro photographers.


Frankly, I can't be arsed because you're currently trying to mix up several arguments and unrelated points into one really confusing mess.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2012)

haha twats


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Frankly, I can't be arsed because you're currently trying to mix up several arguments and unrelated points into one really confusing mess.


 
No, Im trying to unravel any contradictions that may exist, or discover the detail that explains why they arent contradictions at all. I know I wont fully succeed though, regardless of the fact it was only yesterday you were laughing at a joke about how the pixel density of the Oppo 1080p makes the iPhone look like an etch a sketch. So I shall stop now.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> No, Im trying to unravel any contradictions that may exist, or discover the detail that explains why they arent contradictions at all. I know I wont fully succeed though, regardless of the fact it was only yesterday you were laughing at a joke about how the pixel density of the Oppo 1080p makes the iPhone look like an etch a sketch. So I shall stop now.


You're current batting on several wickets here and trying to conflate a host of barely related points into one confusing mess.

These appear to be the many issues you're currently trying wedge into one deeply confusing _blended argument:_

1. The issue of mobile phones that already possess high res screens and the question of whether there is any benefit in ramping up the resolution to provide near-imperceivable increases or would a better battery life be more useful?
2. The marketing problems that may come about when a tablet designed to compete with the Nexus 7 has a markedly inferior screen?
3. At what point on a tablet do the screen resolution issues raised in point #1 come into play?
4. I smiled at the 'etch a sketch' comment because I was laughing at the ludicrous hyperbole that was being employed by the writer. That was it. No Big Point there.

I'm happy to try and answer each point individually (if I must - I feel I've discussed them sufficiently already), but expecting me to somehow merge them all together is just too confusing.


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2012)

I'm not asking you to repeat the discussion again in its entirety, its just Im always fascinated by contradictions. Note that I dont see contradictions as a great crime, I'm sure I have plenty myself, its just they can be pretty fertile ground for exploring the details from a number of angles. I dont think my attempts create a confusing mess, they just draw attention to the possibility that such a mess already exists.

Forgive me for throwing away most of your words and whittling it down to two phrases you used which I believe point in the direction Im trying to get at.



editor said:


> 1.near-imperceivable increases
> 2. markedly inferior screen


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep. Battery tech is the limiting factor now. Is there anything on the horizon that's going to change this?



Nothing for the near future I believe...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nothing for the near future I believe...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


>



Tbh the 4S battery gets me through the day with heavy use to around 20% by end of the day so I'm not as fussed by battery as I once was...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeah, but it would be nice to go away for a weekend camping without having to work put waygs to find power etc


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2012)

The full horrors of the battery issue will become clear if we reach a point where certain classes of powerful apps are expected to be running on tablets or to a less likely extent smartphones. The sort of traditional apps that tend to use 100% cpu for fair amounts of time make a lie of the idea that tablet battery lifetimes are in a different ballpark to laptop ones. I can completely drain the battery on the Nexus 7 in 4 hours if I try hard enough.

So make no mistake, most of what we've seen on the battery front that feels like progress over the last 5 years has really been on the device usage patterns and efficiency side of things, be it chips getting more efficient or people designing the OS and apps to use energy far more sparingly. If it werent for things like hardware movie decoding then Im not convinced tablets would have managed to take off much at this point.

Although people understandably moan all the time about how often they have to charge their smartphones, people have put up with the issue quite well so far all things considered. I see there are some complaints stateside about how quickly LTE can drain a devices battery, so we might be at another one of those bumps in the road where a new kind of faster networking puts additional pressure on the battery for a while, until the tech & its chipsets mature more. Didnt the same thing happen with 3G? Mind you Apples claims about iPhone 5 battery when using LTE, if accurate, suggest they've not run head first into this issue in a way thats especially likely to upset customers.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> I'm not asking you to repeat the discussion again in its entirety, its just Im always fascinated by contradictions. Note that I dont see contradictions as a great crime, I'm sure I have plenty myself, its just they can be pretty fertile ground for exploring the details from a number of angles. I dont think my attempts create a confusing mess, they just draw attention to the possibility that such a mess already exists.
> 
> Forgive me for throwing away most of your words and whittling it down to two phrases you used which I believe point in the direction Im trying to get at.


I'll have one last go.

Incremental increases in screen resolution on small screen mobile phones _that already have high-res screens_ may well turn out to be "near-imperceivable" to the average consumer, whereas a low resolution screen on a far larger tablet may well appear to have a "markedly inferior screen" to a rival tablet that has a much higher res screen.

I really can't see what's so difficult to understand here.


----------



## pesh (Sep 13, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah, but it would be nice to go away for a weekend camping without having to work put waygs to find power etc


 
i'd have to suggest turning off the 3g connection and getting on with the camping side of things...

most phones if you turn off 3g, wifi, bluetooth and all the rest of it and only turn them on when needed will last ages. we we're getting about a week on standby with minimal calls out of a 4 year old iphone on our last proper holiday.


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2012)

editor said:


> I'll have one last go.
> 
> Incremental increases in screen resolution on small screen mobile phones _that already have high-res screens_ may well turn out to be "near-imperceivable" to the average consumer, whereas a low resolution screen on a far larger tablet may well appear to have a "markedly inferior screen" to a rival tablet that has a much higher res screen.
> 
> I really can't see what's so difficult to understand here.


 
Thats fine, its if I push at a few of those edges that I hope my point becomes clearer. The res of the nexus 7 screen is hardly any greater than that of the galaxy nexus phone that I also have. The rumoured res of the rumoured non-widescreen iPad mini is lower, but not that much lower, and is kinda comparable to the iphone res in the same way I just compared the galaxy nexus and nexus 7 res. So although the pixel density of the nexus 7 is superior to the imaginary ipad mini, its not really in the same league as the pixel density we've come to appreciate on recent phones, and I dont put it in the very small class of tablets that have such good pixel density that any further increases would be almost pointless.

And yes I can quite appreciate why my points may seem trivial. But my head got a bit done in by the fact that one month 10-ish inch tablets with a res comparable to great smartphones or 7 inch tablets were deemed good enough for you, and then the next minute an imaginary 7" tablet with a res that is broadly in the same league was deemed to be at a real disadvantage.

If I try and turn my waffle back into something that may affect practical buying advice, I suppose its that both smartphones and 7" tablets have a good enough res these days, but anyone in the market for a larger tablet than that might be advised that over time a comparable pixel density for larger tablets may become the norm rather than the premium feature it presently is. But this might take ages, and the affordable end of the Windows 8 tablet market is likely to keep us even longer in lower res territory for this size of device. Given the premium price of larger tablets in general, with notable exceptions such as the one Amazon just announced (which is also a nice res!), I'd certainly say it makes many of the largest tablets somewhat uncompelling these days.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah, but it would be nice to go away for a weekend camping without having to work put waygs to find power etc



Far point while I was out on a field trip earlier this summer I borrowed one of those power pack charger things due the lengths of time away from a PowerPoint...


----------



## fen_boy (Sep 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nothing for the near future I believe...


 
I work for a company that produces materials science modelling software and battery research and tech is huge amongst our customers at the moment. How close to market anything is I don't know, but that and graphene seem to be the current 'big things'.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> I work for a company that produces materials science modelling software and battery research and tech is huge amongst our customers at the moment. How close to market anything is I don't know, but that and graphene seem to be the current 'big things'.



Tell us more, why is graphene a big thing?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2012)

pesh said:


> i'd have to suggest turning off the 3g connection and getting on with the camping side of things...
> 
> most phones if you turn off 3g, wifi, bluetooth and all the rest of it and only turn them on when needed will last ages. we we're getting about a week on standby with minimal calls out of a 4 year old iphone on our last proper holiday.


So in other words, buy a 10 year old phone. Genius.


----------



## fen_boy (Sep 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Tell us more, why is graphene a big thing?



It's very slippy, amongst other things. Nothing to do with phones.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 14, 2012)

Heh the controversy of Apple changing its cable summed up very neatly:



Says it all really...


----------



## r0bb0 (Sep 14, 2012)

i was hoping it would be transparent


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh the controversy of Apple changing its cable summed up very neatly:
> 
> View attachment 23059
> 
> Says it all really...


 
yeah but does the new phone come with this new adaptor? i don't know just asking.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 14, 2012)

B0B2oo9 said:


> yeah but does the new phone come with this new adaptor? i don't know just asking.



Nope. No phone from Apple ever has come with an adapter afaik.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 14, 2012)

r0bb0 said:


> i was hoping it would be transparent



Heh sweet!


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 14, 2012)

So i need to buy one then... £25 ..... hmmmm


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh the controversy of Apple changing its cable summed up very neatly:
> 
> View attachment 23059
> 
> Says it all really...


Really? So what does it say?

It seems to say to me that it's a pile of FUD because the illustration shows a specialist cable pack for 'SP/SIM unlocking and flashing software' with serial, PS/2 and USB interfaces. The kind of thing that owners of phones like this would never ever need or use.






But feel free to "sum up the controversy" by posting an illustration that actually has some relevance to this debate. You could start by finding one showing all the cables that have been required for Samsung's Android phones since they launched.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 14, 2012)

pesh said:


> i'd have to suggest turning off the 3g connection and getting on with the camping side of things...
> 
> most phones if you turn off 3g, wifi, bluetooth and all the rest of it and only turn them on when needed will last ages. we we're getting about a week on standby with minimal calls out of a 4 year old iphone on our last proper holiday.


 
My iPhone 4 can last 3 days without recharging if I dont use it. The above helps a little but the one thing that costs stacks of power is the screen and its responsible for it not lasting a day in modest use.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2012)

editor said:


> It's all a bit messy with the adapters.


It certainly is no HDMI cable would be a deal breaker for me,fortunately Apple are saying they will arrive soon,not doubt at an ridiculous price.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 14, 2012)

peterkro said:


> It certainly is no HDMI cable would be a deal breaker for me,fortunately Apple are saying they will arrive soon,not doubt at an ridiculous price.



Indeed they will and there'll be the usual cheap versions available on Amazon.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 14, 2012)

peterkro said:


> It certainly is no HDMI cable would be a deal breaker for me,fortunately Apple are saying they will arrive soon,not doubt at an ridiculous price.


 
Why the hell would you want an HDMI cable on a phone?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2012)

Because I want to watch footy and I'm not about to pay Sky £30 a month for it.£7 for mobile TV,wack HDMI into phone watch on big screen.( I could do it via airplay but that requires faffing about)


----------



## sim667 (Sep 14, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Because I want to watch footy and I'm not about to pay Sky £30 a month for it.£7 for mobile TV,wack HDMI into phone watch on big screen.( I could do it via airplay but that requires faffing about)


 
well if you've got an apple tv anyway, it requires you pressing a icon, then choosing the apple tv.....

You could of course just not watch footy, its only a group of overpaid yunguns kicking an inflated pigs bladder around a patch of grass anyway


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2012)

Your probably right I just haven't looked into it,I will.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 14, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Your probably right I just haven't looked into it,I will.


 
BTW an app called skyfire will load some flash videos and allow you airplay them straight off t'internet, just for reference like.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 14, 2012)

This is choice, Kimmel hands old 4S to people telling them it's the iPhone 5...:


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2012)

Never underestimate the power of the Reality Distortion Field.

You could probably power small countries on the awesome heat of its furnace o' bullshit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 14, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Because I want to watch footy and I'm not about to pay Sky £30 a month for it.£7 for mobile TV,wack HDMI into phone watch on big screen.( I could do it via airplay but that requires faffing about)



What mobile tv app?


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 14, 2012)

Structaural said:


> This is choice, Kimmel hands old 4S to people telling them it's the iPhone 5...:




Already been posted a page or two back...


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What mobile tv app?


SkyGo I'm assuming. Looked into it the other day, they do an iPhone/iPod only deal for less than a tenner I think.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2012)

Sky Mobile TV,they dropped it from iTunes store last year and replaced with the Sky Sports TV app which is more expensive to subscribe to.Those with the earlier app get the cheaper price.

Actually having looked it appears the only option now is Sky Go which costs £35 a month,bastards.

Further edit/ apparently the Sky Sports TV app is available on iTunes and at the moment it's £4.99 a month if you pay through iTunes.This is a good deal.You download app and then use in app purchase to get cheap sub.


----------



## pocketscience (Sep 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Far point while I was out on a field trip earlier this summer I borrowed one of those power pack charger things due the lengths of time away from a PowerPoint...


A spare, fully loaded battery would normally do the trick.
Is there any good reason why apple refuses to add the mundane yet essential feature of swappable batteries?
Just as well they haven't pursued the iCar idea.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 14, 2012)

Because swappable batteries means a significant amount of extra space, and in general nobody gives a shit and would prefer smaller devices.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 14, 2012)

A last resort solution the juice pack booster


----------



## pocketscience (Sep 14, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Because swappable batteries means a *significant amount of extra space*, and in general nobody gives a shit and would prefer smaller devices.


With their credentials in design and innovation they should be able to overcome that technical challenge. 
Even with the given technology what we talking here, an added 2mm more on length & width for clip-fit clasps?
There must be some other reason surely.


----------



## pocketscience (Sep 14, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> A last resort solution the juice pack booster


Hmmm... so while you're having to wait for the actual phone to charge in your pocket, the "thinnest iPhone ever" just doubled in size.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 14, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> With their credentials in design and innovation they should be able to overcome that technical challenge.
> Even with the given technology what we talking here, an added 2mm more on length & width for clip-fit clasps?
> There must be some other reason surely.


A lot more than that - apart from the internal housing, the battery itself has to have a case too. And there's always that instead of having a replaceable battery you can have a _larger_ battery in the same space.


----------



## pocketscience (Sep 14, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> A lot more than that - apart from the internal housing, the battery itself has to have a case too. And there's always that instead of having a replaceable battery you can have a _larger_ battery in the same space.


The iPhone looks no different to any other phone set up (r.e. battery) except it's hard wired:


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Because swappable batteries means a significant amount of extra space, and in general nobody gives a shit and would prefer smaller devices.


Do they really? The ultra-slim Galaxy S3 manages to fit in a removable battery that is positively huge in terms of capacity (2,100mAh).

I very much give a shit about removable batteries too. They're incredible handy things to have in your bag, especially when they cost so little.

Still, if you prefer to lug around large back up battery packs and cables...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 14, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> The iPhone looks no different to any other phone set up (r.e. battery) except it's hard wired:


And the battery is in a bag not a hard case and there's no housing or space required to remove the back to access the housing.


----------



## elbows (Sep 14, 2012)

For certain scenarios I can certainly understand the practical advantage of being able to swap to a spare battery. Its a minority requirement though, most people dont carry spare phone batteries. We used to hear a lot more criticism about apple over this when they first did it, but its the sort of thing that was more about the theory and not liking the idea at all than how much it actually affected loads of people in practice. I doubt its too near the top of the chart of reasons why people chose to buy a phone other than the iPhone, though its there somewhere I'm sure.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> For certain scenarios I can certainly understand the practical advantage of being able to swap to a spare battery. Its a minority requirement though, most people dont carry spare phone batteries. We used to hear a lot more criticism about apple over this when they first did it, but its the sort of thing that was more about the theory and not liking the idea at all than how much it actually affected loads of people in practice. I doubt its too near the top of the chart of reasons why people chose to buy a phone other than the iPhone, though its there somewhere I'm sure.


It's one of those things that has such minor user take up - like replaceable laptop batteries actually - that it is evidently quite possible to ignore it in a product and it won't affect sales, and in fact maybe boost them from the hardware advantages resulting. Over all the years that I've owned phones, the only time I've ever heard of anyone changing the battery was when the old one was shagged.

Recognising when something is basically obsolete and can now be removed - e.g. optical drives - is a useful thing to be able to do for a manufacturer.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> For certain scenarios I can certainly understand the practical advantage of being able to swap to a spare battery. Its a minority requirement though, most people dont carry spare phone batteries.


There sure is a big enough market out there for spare batteries. I'll take having a pocketful of cheap back up batteries over a super slick and stylish but totally dead smartphone, thanks.


----------



## pocketscience (Sep 14, 2012)

Horses for courses. I travel a lot. I have spare batteries.
I guess if you just spend the day between office and home it's no biggie to keep it on charge.
Still don't answer the question as to _why_ apple refuse to add the feature (i'm not buying the size argument)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 14, 2012)

Most users won't ever need a second battery which is probably something Apple counts on...


----------



## pocketscience (Sep 14, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Most users won't ever need a second battery which is probably something Apple counts on...


My guess is that apple counts on its consumers to adapt their lives to fit in with the limitations of their products, combined with keeping a sharp eye on maximising profits.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 14, 2012)

they are such _monsters_


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## elbows (Sep 14, 2012)

editor said:


> There sure is a big enough market out there for spare batteries. I'll take having a pocketful of cheap back up batteries over a super slick and stylish but totally dead smartphone, thanks.


 
So out of interest how often do you swap the battery in your current phone?


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## elbows (Sep 14, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> Still don't answer the question as to _why_ apple refuse to add the feature (i'm not buying the size argument)


 
Why would they add it? Their phone & tablet successes came from making a different set of compromises to everyone else at the time. They made some things worse and some things better, gambling that the final compromise, whilst defying expectations of what was 'normal' and what people had come to expect, would do enough things very well that the product was attractive to enough people. 

Even if there were no other considerations at work, their present design philosophy is incompatible with battery compartment covers.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2012)

UK network prices revealed, looks like Three has the best contract deal:

http://aol.it/UbEeng


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## editor (Sep 15, 2012)

elbows said:


> So out of interest how often do you swap the battery in your current phone?


If I'm at a festival, two or three times. If I'm away for a very long day out, perhaps once. Either way, it's reassuring knowing that I've got a spare battery in my bag.


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## editor (Sep 15, 2012)

Great to see the Reality Distortion Field in such full effect here. Apparently it's _great_ that phones don't have batteries that can be swapped! Less choice is better! Better to have to send your phone in for repair when the battery fails!


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## xenon (Sep 15, 2012)

.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2012)

Had a chat with a mate who's owned iPhones for the last couple years about the five, asked him if he was going to get it, his response "Meh"


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2012)

My 4 is still pretty cool, esp as I got an insurance replacement, so will wait till the shop gets them in on demo to see one in my hand.

iOS 6 is really where the major changes lie, no 600 quid phone to buy to get that. The hardware homogenised sometime ago, pretty much all phones now sport the same set of hardware features.

Would like the anti shaky cam though.

If they said at the end of the demo, oh and one more thing, we've developed a 4mm cubed cold fusion reactor that will power your phone forever.  I'd pre-order that.


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## editor (Sep 15, 2012)

Apple are the kings of putting together slick, well integrated phones, but most of the real innovation is taking place elsewhere now.

The 5 is a superbly well put together phone and it'll sell by the bucketload because so many people have already invested in the iOS eco-system, but it's beginning to look like diminishing returns in terms of innovation and pizazz.

Apple iPhone launches used to be really exciting in terms of new features and fab new stuff but the last couple have looked very tired indeed.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 15, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> Horses for courses. I travel a lot. I have spare batteries.
> I guess if you just spend the day between office and home it's no biggie to keep it on charge.
> Still don't answer the question as to _why_ apple refuse to add the feature (i'm not buying the size argument)


I travel a lot too. Its one of the reasons an iphone is a no-no for me also the inability to be able to add extra memory with a micro sd - but these are the same reasons I didn't get that unibody Nokia windows phone either.
What is Apples maps like? I like googlemaps. I use it on my ipad, Im dismayed that Apple will be using it's own version.


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## editor (Sep 15, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> I travel a lot too. Its one of the reasons an iphone is a no-no for me also the inability to be able to add extra memory with a micro sd - but these are the same reasons I didn't get that unibody Nokia windows phone either.
> What is Apples maps like? I like googlemaps. I use it on my ipad, Im dismayed that Apple will be using it's own version.


One of the biggest ballaches for business travellers will be the new SIM card. Travellers used to swapping over SIM cards as they travel from country to country could be facing a ton of rather pointless hassle, all in the name of saving a few mm.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 15, 2012)

Its the reason ive a wifi ipad and an unlocked 3 mifi, I can please myself what sim I use, Im not tied to some wanky contract


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## mrs quoad (Sep 15, 2012)

*ordered*


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## elbows (Sep 15, 2012)

editor said:


> Great to see the Reality Distortion Field in such full effect here. Apparently it's _great_ that phones don't have batteries that can be swapped! Less choice is better! Better to have to send your phone in for repair when the battery fails!


 
Yes your reality distortion field really shows itself in full if you think thats what people have been saying. People have ben questioning how much this issue actually matters, not claiming that Apples approach is really great in every way with no downsides.

One of the reasons we used to hear more venting about apples battery stuff is the same as why we used to hear more about lack of flash - not only could people feel fresh outrage about these things because they had just happened, but people could make big claims about how these awful limitations made apples products unattractive. But the iphone was a huge success and then the ipad was too, and that put something of a dampener on the most extreme versions of 'Apple are idiots who make shit for shitheads'.

The battle is silly because its based on fictitious positions. Did anybody claim that Apples products, with their particular set of pros and cons, should be considered suitable for all or immune from criticism? I certainly would not expect nor want to see Apple with an utterly dominant market share, ideally I would like to see at least three platforms with reasonable share, and a much more broadly distributed share of profits for hardware manufacturers than is currently the case.

As for choice, well choice means having a company like Apple as part of the mix. If I find some of Apples offerings appealing then dont take it as a threat to the existence of removable batteries from other manufacturers. The problem is it can be a threat, but not because of words from people like me! Rather the threat is that Apple will be so successful with something that others copy it and it starts to become the norm. I dont seem to have a memory slot or a battery cover on my nexus 7, although I could pull the back off they arent inviting me to. Flash is leaving android, and it feels like every company wants to have a successful app store. So by all means worry about the broader ramifications of Apples designs, but dont blame it on a reality distortion field, such phenomenon alone are not enough to explain success.


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## elbows (Sep 15, 2012)

And just in case it isnt clear, Im glad that everyone has not quickly followed Apple in getting rid of easy access to the battery. It may still slide more in that direction over time, and its not something that affects me personally, but I'd rather the choice exists.


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## pesh (Sep 15, 2012)

editor said:


> One of the biggest ballaches for business travellers will be the new SIM card. Travellers used to swapping over SIM cards as they travel from country to country could be facing a ton of rather pointless hassle, all in the name of saving a few mm.


 
not really. speaking as someone who travels a LOT with work most people i've encountered, myself included, will have 2 phones, or 1 with a dual sim. 1 for their home number and 1 for the cheap local sim.

i've never met someone away on business who can afford to just disconnect their primary phone number in order to save a few quid on local calls. yes i know you can divert your calls to the local number but that ends up costing more than just answering it normally.

so yeah, it might be a pain for your average holiday maker but certainly not to the majority of business travelers. anyway who doesn't have access to 2 phones these days?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2012)

Sunray said:


> My 4 is still pretty cool, esp as I got an insurance replacement, so will wait till the shop gets them in on demo to see one in my hand.
> 
> iOS 6 is really where the major changes lie, no 600 quid phone to buy to get that. The hardware homogenised sometime ago, pretty much all phones now sport the same set of hardware features.
> 
> ...



I dunno I shot some footage of the British Tour earlier today and despite my unsteady hand my 4S produced very steady high quality footage.

I think at this stage due to my app usage iOS 6 is more interesting. Not out of contract for another year so by then Windows 8 will have a few more handsets to make my next choice very interesting.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 15, 2012)

One thing I'll wager about ios 6.

It'll be longer.

E2a: ah. I see it's already been announced


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## Sunray (Sep 15, 2012)

editor said:


> Apple are the kings of putting together slick, well integrated phones, but most of the real innovation is taking place elsewhere now.
> 
> The 5 is a superbly well put together phone and it'll sell by the bucketload because so many people have already invested in the iOS eco-system, but it's beginning to look like diminishing returns in terms of innovation and pizazz.
> 
> Apple iPhone launches used to be really exciting in terms of new features and fab new stuff but the last couple have looked very tired indeed.


 
As have just about every smart phone out there. Android is still inferior and the reason is difficult to understand, many years of development really hasn't nailed it and its Android that puts me off other phones.  Customer service I get off Apple is difficult to beat too and once you are use to that, you start to expect it.

The hardware was and has become irrelevant and I've said that for a while now. At some point they will be the default phone and you will be able to buy a generic android phone in tescos for 30 quid sim free payg with 10 quid credit. Its not far away.


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## FaradayCaged (Sep 15, 2012)

Sunray said:


> As have just about every smart phone out there. Android is still inferior and the reason is difficult to understand, many years of development really hasn't nailed it and its Android that puts me off other phones. Customer service I get off Apple is difficult to beat too and once you are use to that, you start to expect it.
> 
> The hardware was and has become irrelevant and I've said that for a while now. At some point they will be the default phone and you will be able to buy a generic android phone in tescos for 30 quid sim free payg with 10 quid credit. Its not far away.


 
This is true about the cheap generic android phones, the Samsung Y is only about £70 these days and they're only going to get cheaper.


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## Ranbay (Sep 15, 2012)




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## elbows (Sep 15, 2012)

editor said:


> Apple are the kings of putting together slick, well integrated phones, but most of the real innovation is taking place elsewhere now.
> 
> The 5 is a superbly well put together phone and it'll sell by the bucketload because so many people have already invested in the iOS eco-system, but it's beginning to look like diminishing returns in terms of innovation and pizazz.
> 
> Apple iPhone launches used to be really exciting in terms of new features and fab new stuff but the last couple have looked very tired indeed.


 
I'm not sure that really matches the history. Before the original launch there was a lot of rumour and high expectations. Apple innovated when it came to the UI, and the amount of press etc attention was at levels which caused some to complain about the excessive hype. The excitement of the initial launch was dampened by all of the downsides, such as:

Battery
Lack of flash, apps, 3G, memory card slot, hardware keyboard.
Price

Therefore in the minds of some, it was questionable whether the UI innovation would compensate for these shortcomings.

Then we got 3G and apps, and the innovation of the app store, which was the sort of innovation that worried people more than it impressed them. But it was still early days and this was the first iphone as far as most people in the uk were concerned.The 3GS was seen as a minor bump that was most notable for speed increases.

The 4 had a controversial design, including the glass back and the rapid emergence of the news of an antenna problem. Those looking for a certain kind of spec improvement that could be considered a leap great enough to be called an innovation, could point to the retina screen, perhaps this was that last thing Apple did that really made people go ooh.

4S was another minor bump, and although Siri had a whiff of innovation about it, it was broadly considered too much of a gimmick and came with a smell from tying software features to new hardware models to drive sales.

So with that simplified history in mind I dont really see the iPhone attention, anticipation etc as having floundered in quite the way you suggest. No company tends to do the sorts of innovations that can disrupt a market on a regular and consistent basis.

The iPad is another good example, its existence was anticipated and hyped, but again it was not hard to feel underwhelmed on launch day.

And what innovations has everyone else been doing in the meantime? For years they were busy just trying to adjust to the new UI expectations Apple laid down with iOS. Some failed and died, others rose to the challenge. And once they got there and were competitive with the iPhone, they could then go further by bumping the size of the screen, other spec, and flaunting some of their strengths over Apple while abandoning others. We can call some of these things innovations, but even when the resulting feature or spec is better than apple they are not usually any more exciting than the average incremental progress we are used to with technology.

How many times have I been really excited in recent years? Not very many. I dont think I went nuts over the original iphone. I was hugely excited about the iPad from day one. I was glad android came to exist but it underwhelmed me for years, I've been more excited to develop on it than to own an android phone. I did get excited about the galaxy note but chickened out. I got excited about the nexus 7 because of its price and how many hands it would end up in as a result. I'm excited about windows 8 because I want to see another larger tablet user interface thats notably different to how iOS and android do things.

I suppose massive UI changes are what excite me, and although I have moaned about growing bored with Apple on this front because they are pretty conservative and wont change fundamentals very often at all, its not like I expected it to be any different. And I dont see it as a sign of them losing the plot because most corporations will do the same. Microsoft may excite me this year because they are at a point in their cycle where they are about to make a bold leap. But if they get it right and its a success then they wont change it again substantially for years. By contrast Android has undergone some more major changes over its lifetime, most notably when it moved away from physical buttons on the front. But some of the stuff they changed is down to failure, and I attribute part of androids failure to do well on large tablets to be down to UI issues. Which is a shame, because Apple left others room to innovate in this space by not exactly introducing a raft of new UI stuff on the iPad, which does create at times a sense that the larger screen is not being made the most of by the OS (although apps themselves have played with a variety of useful tablet UIs).

In my eyes Apple lived up to their realistic potential, delivered about what we might expect from them fairly consistently. If I'm hard on Android its not because its crap, its because it hasnt always lived up to its full potential, and we are likely to see Google continue to wrestle with the consequences of this. Hopefully this will lead to the sort of innovation you complain is absent from modern apple product launches, but despite Googles best efforts I cant really claim to see concrete signs so far. I can certainly see why they are very interested in the google glass project, if they get it right then at some point a fusion of these technologies will allow them to innovate in a way that truly dazzles. In the meantime its the affordable 7" tablet segment that I can give most kudos to android for birthing, and even that wont really dazzle me until I see impressive sustained sales figures and a bunch more 'killer' apps.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2012)

LTE seems like a complicated 'standard', apparently iPhone 5 isn't compatible with O2 and Vodafone's 4G network...is there any phone that's compatible with all LTE set ups?


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## editor (Sep 15, 2012)

It's a total mess: 


> The iPhone 5 for example can operate on 4G networks across only three radio frequencies - 850MHz, 1800MHz and 2100MHz. Unlike Everything Everywhere , O2 and Vodafone are planning to use the 800 MHz and 2.6 GHz 4G LTE frequencies. Long term this should provide a better service, but the iPhone 5 won't support these two frequencies, which is very bad news for UK customers.
> 
> It is possible that Apple will produce a new version of the iPhone 5 next year which will work on O2 and Vodafone's 4G LTE networks. However, that isn't a good solution for a lot of consumers who'd have to wait a long time before buying the iPhone 5, unless they rebought another one at a later date.
> 
> ...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2012)

Anyone else think the new iPhone 5's dimensions make it look a little like a classic TV remote control..?


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## mrs quoad (Sep 15, 2012)

Afaict, t-mobile will be charging extra for 4g too. No details afaict, yet. But mention of separate registration / announcements. Not sure I'll bother, unless it looks like an unavoidable problem / hindrance.


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## Sunray (Sep 15, 2012)

From a UK operator perspective they must be grim reading. The 850Mhz band is US only.

The 1st really popular consumer phone that has LTE will not work on their networks.
Anything negative with respect to the iPhone gets massive press.

If you look closely, Apple have actually produced 3 models of the iPhone 5 to best accommodate the somewhat fragmented state and bands of LTE around the world. But this cost money and they clearly think that operators will generally fall into line rather than Apple having to make 20 models. The odd decision is to leave out band 7 which most of Europe is set to use.

But until very recently, before the OFCOM decision to allow T-Mobile/Orange to use the 1800Mhz range for LTE, there wasn't a single carrier able to launch LTE till late next year after the old TV channel spectrum auctions which is when Apple refresh the hardware so expect a band 7 capable iPhone 5S. So Apple weren't to know, but its probably pleasing to them. I can also see why EE are delighted and O2 and Vodaphone are less so.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/09/iphone5-lte-model/

I reckon LTE is going to be shonky and unreliable to start off with, its only just being deployed in the US and these things take time to iron themselves out.  The bills are going to be wrong, its going to be expensive and only run at < 3G speeds most of the time.


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## Yata (Sep 16, 2012)

O2 offering 36 a month unlimited everything and 1gb allowance and 99 for the handset or 199 for handset and 31 a month for same tariff does this look good? Seems decent to me and cant find any info on Orange/EE (not going near vodafone)


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## editor (Sep 16, 2012)

> iPhone 5 queues begin on London's Regent St as duo face week-long wait
> Leicester-based duo George Horne and Richard Wheatcroft are taking no chances when it comes to acquiring the handset as soon as it hits the market.
> 
> They started camping outside Apple's store in Oxford Circus on Thursday and will remain there for eight days in order to ensure they are at the front of the queue.
> ...


----------



## Elvis Parsley (Sep 16, 2012)

not total facepalm, apparently it's a publicity stunt for a charity idea of theirs, The Hope Boutique Bakery

"The Hope Boutique Bakery will be a pop up shop appearing in markets around London. It will sell cakes and other bakery-related goods, but rather than be profit driven, its aim is to provide a safe haven and working environment for vulnerable women - women who may have been abused, trying to escape prostitution, or having suffered other negative situations which has left them with shattered confidence and a mistrust of being around men."

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47518/iphone-5-queue-first-interview

though without doubt there will be a substantial line of bona fide twats just behind them shortly, if not already


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## Bungle73 (Sep 16, 2012)

They're not the only ones with that idea: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19617008

I'm not sure I approve. Should "charities" really by snapping up high demand consumer items (and thereby depriving legitimate customers of them) and then selling them for an (undoubtedly) huge profit? If it was anyone else that would be frowned on by a lot of people.


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## peterkro (Sep 16, 2012)

Yata said:


> O2 offering 36 a month unlimited everything and 1gb allowance and 99 for the handset or 199 for handset and 31 a month for same tariff does this look good? Seems decent to me and cant find any info on Orange/EE (not going near vodafone)


There's a spreadsheet here with most monthly contracts on:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anui--8cImBadHMzY0FnTWM4Y1k1NEtTLTBiZC1UakE#gid=0


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## maldwyn (Sep 16, 2012)




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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 16, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Afaict, t-mobile will be charging extra for 4g too. No details afaict, yet. But mention of separate registration / announcements. Not sure I'll bother, unless it looks like an unavoidable problem / hindrance.



That's a bit shit but unsurprising...


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## mrs quoad (Sep 16, 2012)

Yata said:


> O2 offering 36 a month unlimited everything and 1gb allowance and 99 for the handset or 199 for handset and 31 a month for same tariff does this look good? Seems decent to me and cant find any info on Orange/EE (not going near vodafone)


Sure you'd be ok with 1gb?

E2a: just seen the spreadsheet!


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2012)

1GB isn't very much at all if you intend to use all the features of a high end smartphone.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 16, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Sure you'd be ok with 1gb?
> 
> E2a: just seen the spreadsheet!



A smartphone without an unlimited data plan is a waste of time IMO, I regularly cane 3.5 gigs a month with my iPhone 4S...


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## mrs quoad (Sep 16, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> A smartphone without an unlimited data plan is a waste of time IMO, I regularly cane 3.5 gigs a month with my iPhone 4S...


Well, good for you! 

That doesn't mean it isn't enough for Yata, though. Depending on what (if anything) specific appealed to it about the orange plan!


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## editor (Sep 16, 2012)

I think 3.5GB/month would be way above an average user's data consumption, but it's quite easy to slip over 1GB over a month.


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## peterkro (Sep 16, 2012)

By the by if you get a new contract with O2 you can get a bolt on for an extra gig for a fiver if you get it later it's £8 something.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Well, good for you!
> 
> That doesn't mean it isn't enough for Yata, though. Depending on what (if anything) specific appealed to it about the orange plan!



You say that now but I know two 'ordinary' users who had 1gb tariffs and punched above that in no time. Both have now moved to an unlimited tarrif.

With the rise in video and things like the app size cap shifting from 10mb to 20mb and now 50mb it's very easy to eat a lot of data even for your average consumer. And that's before you get into things like downloading music or sending images (which are now all bigger files due to better cameras)

It's a question of increasing use over the length of the contract not what your data uses are today that matter...


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## mrs quoad (Sep 17, 2012)

You know what? I'd bet pounds to pennies my mum'll very, very rarely (if ever) exceed 1gb PCM on her new 4s.


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## Yata (Sep 17, 2012)

1gb is enough I'd just have to be a bit careful with it, which is exactly what I have to do now being on pay as you go with the shitty Orange Music tariff lol. Are Orange customers getting 4g? Cause Ive just realised I could use my phone fund towards handset cost which would knock about a tenner off (making it same price as o2, lol)

On the spreadsheet, 3 look the best cause I could make 1gb last but wifi on the bus isnt exactly reliable and train wifi is even worse so unlimited would be pretty good actually and 500mins 5000txts is more than a social reject like me would ever use but.... 3? Do they still suck?


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## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 17, 2012)

and I am guessing you would have to ensure that icloud is only set to sync on wifi networks.

I'm smug, I get 20GB per month on mine. Only a six month contract too.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

Yata said:


> 1gb is enough I'd just have to be a bit careful with it, which is exactly what I have to do now being on pay as you go with the shitty Orange Music tariff lol. Are Orange customers getting 4g? Cause Ive just realised I could use my phone fund towards handset cost which would knock about a tenner off (making it same price as o2, lol)
> 
> On the spreadsheet, 3 look the best cause I could make 1gb last but wifi on the bus isnt exactly reliable and train wifi is even worse so unlimited would be pretty good actually and 500mins 5000txts is more than a social reject like me would ever use but.... 3? Do they still suck?



I've been on Three for nearly s year, great connection, great coverage, no problems so far.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 17, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> and I am guessing you would have to ensure that icloud is only set to sync on wifi networks.


Most things using iCloud - calendar sync etc - don't transfer a lot of data. You might have to watch out if you're, say, editing a Pages doc on iCloud, though. It would be nice if you could specify a maximum file size before it waited for wifi to be around.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 17, 2012)

A standard camera image is 1.8MB (without any post processing), if you have set all photos to go to photostream and you take a few this would soon add up.


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## Bungle73 (Sep 17, 2012)

Photostream only uploads when you're on wifi (and when connected to a power source I think).


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## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 17, 2012)

I have just facepalmed myself. As you were.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 17, 2012)

funnily enough, i am with 3 and they look the best option over in blighty although still a 24 month lock in. http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/14/iphone_5_pay_monthly_tariffs_compared/


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## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> funnily enough, i am with 3 and they look the best option over in blighty although still a 24 month lock in. http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/14/iphone_5_pay_monthly_tariffs_compared/


I'd really recommend avoiding a 24 month contract.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> funnily enough, i am with 3 and they look the best option over in blighty although still a 24 month lock in. http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/14/iphone_5_pay_monthly_tariffs_compared/



Yup data wise they've always been pretty good ime. I'm on a 24 month, tbh these days once you get a phone that works with applications you can use in a  number of different places it's less an issue. I've a year left and the last has flown by too!

It's funny, the upgrade urge in phones isn't the same as with other screens we spend our time with...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Photostream only uploads when you're on wifi (and when connected to a power source I think).



Only wifi but you can do it without connecting to a power source.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> I'd really recommend avoiding a 24 month contract.


 
Why so?

I've got a iphone 4 on a 18 month contract, I've had it for well over that now.


----------



## magneze (Sep 17, 2012)

They've not really run out of them apparently.


> "Cook and all the top boys were worried," Dry Throat told his Reg handlers, referring to Apple supremo Tim Cook.
> "I mean, think about it. There's no Steve: that's not good. How the hell are you supposed to get mass cult hysteria going without the Grand High Warlock?
> "Then, look at the damn thing. It's basically a dead ringer for an old Samsung Galaxy, but with a smaller screen. And we really shot ourselves in the foot with 4G. It's a massive power gobbler - and that's going to kind of flag up the fact that we're the only guys who don't let you swap batteries ... basically because we're really insanely greedy.
> "So we're left with Mr Dull from Accounts giving a pitch which says 'Hey guys, why don't you buy a Samsung Galaxy, except double price and with really bad battery life and no option to change batteries. Oh, and it costs more. And if you want it with an SD card, you have to buy one built in from us at like five times retail price, and we've chosen not to use an industry standard connector ... basically out of uncontrollable greed, again'
> "It's not marketing gold, is it?"


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/17/apple_iphone_5_shortage/


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## mrs quoad (Sep 17, 2012)

magneze said:


> They've not really run out of them apparently.


on Sat, t-mobile were saying they were pretty much out of 16gbs.


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## Cid (Sep 17, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You say that now but I know two 'ordinary' users who had 1gb tariffs and punched above that in no time. Both have now moved to an unlimited tarrif.
> 
> With the rise in video and things like the app size cap shifting from 10mb to 20mb and now 50mb it's very easy to eat a lot of data even for your average consumer. And that's before you get into things like downloading music or sending images (which are now all bigger files due to better cameras)
> 
> It's a question of increasing use over the length of the contract not what your data uses are today that matter...


 
It's a problem if you don't have wi-fi connection yeah but... er...

Be interested to know what maps uses mind you.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 17, 2012)

peterkro said:


> There's a spreadsheet here with most monthly contracts on:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Anui--8cImBadHMzY0FnTWM4Y1k1NEtTLTBiZC1UakE#gid=0


 
Shit. Those are expensive things. Basically costs you over a grand for one of those. I got an S3 with as much stuff as I can eat for £680 over 24 months.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

Cid said:


> It's a problem if you don't have wi-fi connection yeah but... er...
> 
> Be interested to know what maps uses mind you.



Good question, never really thought about that tbh...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

Apparently the iPhone 5 has had two million pre-orders, twice the amount the 4S recieved. MacStories has this handy chart showing previous iPhone's, their pre-orders and sales in the opening weekend. Looks like the iPhone 5 is going to be a big success for Apple...


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## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Why so?
> 
> I've got a iphone 4 on a 18 month contract, I've had it for well over that now.


Because the mobile landscape can change dramatically over two years and you may be stuck with a phone that is lagging behind the latest technologies. Not such a problem if you just want to do the standard smartphone things, but I would have gone mad if, for example, I'd been stuck with my crap Palm Pre for the full term.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Why so?
> 
> I've got a iphone 4 on a 18 month contract, I've had it for well over that now.


 
I ran iOS5 on my 3GS for a few weeks last year and it worked fine, a 3 year old phone running the latest OS. A two year contract isn't as long as it once was, and with the rise of cloud syncing and platform agnostic applications phones may shuffle on but how you use them doesn't really radically change.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Because the mobile landscape can change dramatically over two years and you may be stuck with a phone that is lagging behind the latest technologies. Not such a problem if you just want to do the standard smartphone things, but I would have gone mad if, for example, I'd been stuck with my crap Palm Pre for the full term.



Not that dramatically. It depends how bothered you are about keeping up with the jones' to be fair


----------



## Cid (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Because the mobile landscape can change dramatically over two years and you may be stuck with a phone that is lagging behind the latest technologies. Not such a problem if you just want to do the standard smartphone things, but I would have gone mad if, for example, I'd been stuck with my crap Palm Pre for the full term.


 
An upgrade rate of a new phone every two years is pretty ridiculous, at least for the average consumer. I'm not usually one to rant about the obsessions of consumerism and the waste of capitalist society, but I think with stuff like that it's somewhat justified.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 17, 2012)

My main reason for not going for long contracts is not upgrades to phones, but upgrades to deals. Locked in, you don't have the option to switch contracts to new better ones, let alone change networks.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

Cid said:


> An upgrade rate of a new phone every two years is pretty ridiculous, at least for the average consumer. I'm not usually one to rant about the obsessions of consumerism and the waste of capitalist society, but I think with stuff like that it's somewhat justified.


You'll be seeing the *very* worst examples of the obsessions of consumerism and the waste of capitalist society when the iPhone5 launches next week.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> My main reason for not going for long contracts is not upgrades to phones, but upgrades to deals. Locked in, you don't have the option to switch contracts to new better ones, let alone change networks.


Indeed. Data charges can be very fluid indeed, and who wants to be locked into a shite deal for 24 months? My lesson was learnt when I was stuck with my 02 deal for 18 months. I wish I could have switched to Giffgaff months before.

It's better to buy the phone outright (if you can afford to do that), switch deals when better ones become available, and sell on your phone if you want to upgrade.


----------



## Cid (Sep 17, 2012)

I'll see a few slightly sad people that make easy targets getting the piss taken out of them by people that do pretty much the same thing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> My main reason for not going for long contracts is not upgrades to phones, but upgrades to deals. Locked in, you don't have the option to switch contracts to new better ones, let alone change networks.


 
Yeah but data deals haven't really got that much better. If I bought an iPhone today I'd probably go with Three, just like a year ago. Data deals, which are the most important imo, haven't shifted that much in the last couple years and don't look like they're getting any better now the networks want to milk us for 4G...


----------



## Cid (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Indeed. Data charges can be very fluid indeed, and who wants to be locked into a shite deal for 24 months? My lesson was learnt when I was stuck with my 02 deal for 18 months. I wish I could have switched to Giffgaff months before.
> 
> It's better to buy the phone outright (if you can afford to do that), switch deals when better ones become available, and sell on your phone if you want to upgrade.


 
Yep, definitely seems to be the most sensible way of doing it, but I suppose it's like anything where you effectively buy on finance.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)




----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

Cid said:


> I'll see a few slightly sad people that make easy targets getting the piss taken out of them by people that do pretty much the same thing.


I'm happy to say that I don't know anyone sad enough to queue outside a store for days on end to purchase an expensive consumer item that can inevitably be picked up elsewhere at leisure, and I'm pretty sure I don't know anyone who likes being applauded, whooped at and high-fived in stores when they buy their aforementioned electronic goods.

At least, no one I know has admitted to it.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 17, 2012)

The whooping is superficial. Annoying, but of no real consequence.
Replacing a phone every year, whatever the brand, just because the new one is incrementally better, is sad  I try and use my things till they break, and then I try and repair them, and only when that fails do I buy new.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The whooping is superficial. Annoying, but of no real consequence.
> Replacing a phone every year, whatever the brand, just because the new one is incrementally better, is sad  I try and use my things till they break, and then I try and repair them, and only when that fails do I buy new.



Yup. All my gadgets only get replace when they stop working or are obsolete. Hell even my old iPod 4th gen is still in use!


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The whooping is superficial. Annoying, but of no real consequence.
> Replacing a phone every year, whatever the brand, just because the new one is incrementally better, is sad  I try and use my things till they break, and then I try and repair them, and only when that fails do I buy new.


Unfortunately that's how capitalism works and some hugely successful corporates have perfected the craft of making people feel that their current, perfectly adequate handset must be immediately replaced by the latest, slightly better version.

Case in point:


More: http://www.latimes.com/business/tec...twitter-reaction-20120912,0,5490028.htmlstory


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm happy to say that I don't know anyone sad enough to queue outside a store for days on end to purchase an expensive consumer item that can inevitably be picked up elsewhere at leisure


I'm sorry to say that I do(know someone)


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

FaradayCaged said:


> I'm sorry to say that I do


Be sure to tweet your progress at the next exciting consumer goods queue you find yourself in.


----------



## FaradayCaged (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Be sure to tweet your progress at the next exciting consumer goods queue you find yourself in.


I meant I knew someone who does it. Thank god im not quite that sad!


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Unfortunately that's how capitalism works and some hugely successful corporates have perfected the craft of making people feel that their current, perfectly adequate handset must be immediately replaced by the latest, slightly better version.
> 
> Case in point:
> View attachment 23177
> ...


He was being sarcastic; did you not read the article? And it should be obvious given who it is.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> He was being sarcastic; did you not read the article? And it should be obvious given who it is.


 

Ricky Gervais Joke About iPhone 5 Is Funny Because It’s True


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

FaradayCaged said:


> I meant I knew someone who does it. Thank god im not quite that sad!


Phew!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)




----------



## Sunray (Sep 17, 2012)

With all the talk about LTE, I wonder does anyone get HSPA+, which at 14Mbs is probably more than most phones really need.  100Mbs to your phone is cool but seriously under utilised.  Its not like you need to download max payne which is the biggest game I've got at 29Gb, or kick of a webinar to 500 people or run a small hosting company on your phone.  A small device just isn't really sensible thing to do high bandwidth applications?

I'm struggling to see the relevance of LTE now its about to hit...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

Like I said, anything other than unlimited data is pointless:



> When the iPhone originally launched in 2007, AT&T was shocked by how much data users consumed and it crippled their networks. Once 3G was added to the iPhone, data consumption predictably increased, but now that we’re on the cusps of seeing an LTE iPhone 5, one analyst firm is predicting the iPhone 5 will double data consumption.
> 
> Validas, an analysts firm in mobile intelligence, has been tracking mobile usage data of hundreds of thousands of smartphone users in real-time. In a recent study, Validas tracked iPhone data usage of 150,000 users from January to August 2012 and found that iPhone users consumed an average of 489MB of data a month.
> 
> During that same timeframe, Validas tracked HTC Thunderbolt LTE users’s data usage and found that they were using an average of 1.022GB of data a month. Nearly double that of iPhone users. Their survey concluded that the addition of LTE in the iPhone will increase iOS data consumption to more than 1.2


 
And that's probably a conservative estimate given iPhone users surf more on their phones than other phone users.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Unfortunately that's how capitalism works and some hugely successful corporates have perfected the craft of making people feel that their current, perfectly adequate handset must be immediately replaced by the latest, slightly better version.


I don't get it. On one post you are saying that a long contract locks you into yesterday's reject phones, and in another you are decrying the capitalist system for making people want spangly new gadgets that are only fractionally different from the last one.

I've had my HTC Desire for 2 years. It's served me damn well (battery life aside). I've recently rooted it and put ICT and a stripped down ROM on it. When I get my S3 later in the week, it's going to Ms Idaho, who hopefully will get a good couple of years out of it. It's been in a case with screen protectors all this time and is in pretty damn spanking condition.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 17, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Like I said, anything other than unlimited data is pointless:
> 
> 
> 
> And that's probably a conservative estimate given iPhone users surf more on their phones than other phone users.



What?

You're quoting an article staing that average iPhone data consumption is 489 mb / month to support a claim that "anything other than unlimited" is pointless?


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Unfortunately that's how capitalism works and some hugely successful corporates have perfected the craft of making people feel that their current, perfectly adequate handset must be immediately replaced by the latest, slightly better version.
> 
> Case in point:
> View attachment 23177
> ...


 
i thought you were counting off the days of your contract till you're able to sign up to another one to get a subsidised S3, although now you might go Nokia / Windoze8?


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

Idaho said:


> I don't get it. On one post you are saying that a long contract locks you into yesterday's reject phones, and in another you are decrying the capitalist system for making people want spangly new gadgets that are only fractionally different from the last one..


The point I made was if you're the sort of person who wants the latest technologies then locking yourself into a two year deal may prove problematic. But I also added that it wouldn't be "such a problem if you just want to do the standard smartphone things." Horses for courses, and and all that. 

I certainly don't get a new phone every year, but shiny new phones do form a big part of the luring people into renewing their contracts, e.g:


http://www.o2.co.uk/explore


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

pesh said:


> i thought you were counting off the days of your contract till you're able to sign up to another one to get a subsidised S3, although now you might go Nokia / Windoze8?


I'm afraid you've just made that all up in your head. 

1. I bought my own S2 outright well over a year ago and so have never been on a 12/18/24 month contract
2. I have never said i was 'counting the days' down to anything phone-related
3. I have no network contract - I'm on a rolling Giffgaff deal
4 . I have only remarked that my _*next*_ phone *may* be a Nokia/W8 handset. At no point have I mentioned _when_. It may be next year. Or the year after. I've no  idea.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> What?
> 
> You're quoting an article staing that average iPhone data consumption is 489 mb / month to support a claim that "anything other than unlimited" is pointless?



You lost the power to read?


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm afraid you've just made that all up in your head.
> 
> 1. I bought my own S2 outright well over a year ago and so have never been on a 12/18/24 month contract
> 2. I have never said i was 'counting the days' down to anything phone-related
> ...


 
ahh, fair play, i'm in the same boat, i just haven't got round to working out which of this seasons phones i might buy in the next year or 2


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> What?
> 
> You're quoting an article staing that average iPhone data consumption is 489 mb / month to support a claim that "anything other than unlimited" is pointless?


This is probably a more accurate reflection of UK use [from Sept 2011]:


> Now, before you think, “I have no need for such a generous data allowance,” think again: according to research by Three on their own network, the amount of data wolfed down by the average iPhone 4 user has rocketed, rising from 488MBs a month in February to a bandwidth-bustin’ 1.2GBs in August.
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/three-network-invites-you-to-gorge-yourself-of-unlimited-data/


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

pesh said:


> ahh, fair play, i'm in the same boat, i just haven't got round to working out which of this seasons phones i might buy in the next year or 2


I doubt if I'll get the S3. I don't see any compelling reason to get an iPhone 5. I'm not really blown away by any other brands either, but of all the new phones and technologies bubbling under, the Windows 8 ones look the most interesting to me.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 17, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You lost the power to read?


"Validas tracked iPhone data usage of 150,000 users from January to August 2012 and found that iPhone users consumed an average of 489MB of data a month."

489 mb / month?

With htc / lte (=4g?) users using 1.022gb?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> This is probably a more accurate reflection of UK use [from Sept 2011]:


1.2gb / month MEAN data usage still doesn't say much about the spread of usages. What's the standard deviation / variance on that? What's the skew? Because without data other than the mean, it's impossible to guesstimate even roughly what proportion of people would / would not benefit from <1gb plans.


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> I doubt if I'll get the S3. I don't see any compelling reason to get an iPhone 5. I'm not really blown away by any other brands either, but of all the new phones and technologies bubbling under, the Windows 8 ones look the most interesting to me.


 
again, totally fair enough... but you are sitting at home with a perfectly good mobile looking at all new ones getting excited and working out which one you want next...

and taking the piss out of people who are doing exactly the same thing.

bit mean.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 17, 2012)

That 1.2gb / month data is also - afaict - based on a press release by three, at the same time as they started pushing an unlimited data plan for +£3 PCM?

You quote three's marketing chief alongside the figures, describing how he's "froth(ing) up the PR pie with his excitable whisk."

That strikes me as an organization with a commercial interest in quite un-nuanced data.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2012)

pesh said:


> again, totally fair enough... but you are sitting at home with a perfectly good mobile looking at all new ones getting excited and working out which one you want next...
> 
> and taking the piss out of people who are doing exactly the same thing.
> 
> bit mean.


I'm interested in technology and enjoy chatting about it, usually from the comfort of my desk.

Personally, I think that's a whole lot different to completely abandoning my normal home life for a few days so that I can hang about outside a shop for several days and sleep in the street just so I can be the first to spend a ton of cash on a phone I've never actually seen or touched, and willingly being part of a hideous PR circus at the same time.

But if you think occasionally posting here is exactly the same thing, well, you're entitled to your opinion.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2012)

"In iPhone 5 we said fuck google maps!"


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm interested in technology and enjoy chatting about it, usually from the comfort of my desk.
> 
> Personally, I think that's a whole lot different to completely abandoning my normal home life for a few days so that I can hang about outside a shop for several days and sleep in the street just so I can be the first to spend a ton of cash on a phone I've never actually seen or touched, and willingly being part of a hideous PR circus at the same time.
> 
> But if you think occasionally posting here is exactly the same thing, well, you're entitled to your opinion.


 
yeah, i'm not really talking about them...



Crispy said:


> The whooping is superficial. Annoying, but of no real consequence.
> Replacing a phone every year, whatever the brand, just because the new one is incrementally better, is sad  I try and use my things till they break, and then I try and repair them, and only when that fails do I buy new.


 
post of the thread in my opinion.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

pesh said:


> yeah, i'm not really talking about them...


What are you talking about then? It's getting quite hard to grasp your point, especially seeing as you started off posting up such a complete load of tosh about me.


----------



## paolo (Sep 18, 2012)

Sunray said:


> With all the talk about LTE, I wonder does anyone get HSPA+, which at 14Mbs is probably more than most phones really need.  100Mbs to your phone is cool but seriously under utilised.  Its not like you need to download max payne which is the biggest game I've got at 29Gb, or kick of a webinar to 500 people or run a small hosting company on your phone.  A small device just isn't really sensible thing to do high bandwidth applications?
> 
> I'm struggling to see the relevance of LTE now its about to hit...



When I was out on the west coast a few weeks back I had '4G' light up quite a lot. HSPA+ I presume. It was easily outpacing the renderer I thought, so yep, for web pages at least I wonder how fast one one needs. Full on LTE is probably more a benefit for maximising throughput on a cell. More bandwidth = less contention.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 18, 2012)

Never seen 4G appear.


----------



## paolo (Sep 18, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Never seen 4G appear.



Neither had I until I went to the US.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Personally, I think that's a whole lot different to completely abandoning my normal home life for a few days so that I can hang about outside a shop for several days and sleep in the street just so I can be the first to spend a ton of cash on a phone I've never actually seen or touched, and willingly being part of a hideous PR circus at the same time.


What % of Apple users / iPhone owners do you think do that?

Out of interest?

0.0005%?

0.05%?

0.5%?

5%?

50%?

70%?

More?


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 18, 2012)

Most of the early bunch seem to be using it as a publicity platform


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> What % of Apple users / iPhone owners do you think do that?
> 
> Out of interest?
> 
> ...



Probably the same amount who returned their iPhone 4 over reception issue...


----------



## paolo (Sep 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> What % of Apple users / iPhone owners do you think do that?
> 
> Out of interest?
> 
> ...



This will be interesting.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Most of the early bunch seem to be using it as a publicity platform


IIRC, the bloke who was widely reported as doing it last time was a self-publicist / promoting his own (Apple-related?) company.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 18, 2012)

There are also people who queue for literally any new product, as some sort of hobby.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2012)

27% of adults are smartphone users (with 59% getting it in the last year)
Iphone has the majority market share for the UK as a whole (32%), with Blackberry 2nd (24%).
(Taken from an annual ofcom report, based - afaict - on a sample of approximately 3,000 people. These snippets from here: http://www.byoideas.com/2012/05/25/how-many-people-have-smartphones-uk/ dated - iirc - May this year.)

Going by the 2012 census, I make it that there're 51.5m people in the UK who're 16 or over.

http://www.indexmundi.com/united_kingdom/demographics_profile.html

51.5m * .27 (adults owning smartphones) * .32 (% of smartphone owners owning iPhones) = 4,449,600.

Apple have 35 stores.

So to have a crowd of 10,000 at each and every store (which, I think, would represent a generous over-estimate of even the most generous of queues), you'd need 92% of current iPhone users to not be in the crowd.

Are there crowds of 10,000?

I'm going with a gut instinct 'probably not' here.

I appreciate my extrapolations from various datasets may be open to question, and would warmly welcome methodological critiques.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 18, 2012)

Apple stores are hideous tourist traps most self-respecting fan-people would buy online.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Apple stores are hideous tourist traps most self-respecting fan-people would buy online.


 
Err I disagree, they sell stuff I want to buy. There is an Apple shop app these days. Detects you're in the shop. I don't even need to speak to anyone or queue to buy stuff in there now. Just scan it in, press buy and leave, charges it to your apple account.


----------



## gabi (Sep 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Apple stores are hideous tourist traps most self-respecting fan-people would buy online.


 
I hate Apple shops but also kinda love them. Much like their products.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 18, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Never seen 4G appear.





paolo said:


> Neither had I until I went to the US.


There is no 4G here, yet.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> "Validas tracked iPhone data usage of 150,000 users from January to August 2012 and found that iPhone users consumed an average of 489MB of data a month."
> 
> 489 mb / month?
> 
> With htc / lte (=4g?) users using 1.022gb?


 
I rang up and asked what mine is when I was thinking about going onto a different tarriff...... I average about 4.5gb a month.....

I didnt change tariff


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> What % of Apple users / iPhone owners do you think do that?


I've no idea and I'm not sure how it's particularly relevant given the context of the discussion. because I've made no mention or claims about the numbers.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> 27% of adults are smartphone users (with 59% getting it in the last year)
> Iphone has the majority market share for the UK as a whole (32%), with Blackberry 2nd (24%).
> (Taken from an annual ofcom report, based - afaict - on a sample of approximately 3,000 people. These snippets from here: http://www.byoideas.com/2012/05/25/how-many-people-have-smartphones-uk/ dated - iirc - May this year.)
> 
> ...


Bloody hell. I think you need to take a break if you're spending time looking up all these figures for a none existent argument. No one has made any claims about the specific numbers of people who queue outside stores. No one has suggested that they represent the average iPhone user. The only assertion has been that such people exist. And they do.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

Apple are insisting that the iPhone 5 has received record pre-orders and that supplies will be limited on launch. Call me cynical but that statement sure sets the scene nicely for extra big, PR-generating, 'event'-creating crowds outside their stores at launch.

I predict extra loud gangs of whooping Apple borg employees circling the crowds outside their store.


> Apple received more than two million orders for its new iPhone 5 in just 24 hours, the company said, pushing back many deliveries into October because of unprecedented demand.
> "iPhone 5 pre-orders have shattered the previous record held by iPhone 4S and the customer response to iPhone 5 has been phenomenal," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of worldwide marketing, on Monday.
> 
> http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-gets-record-2-million-130254457.html


----------



## Crispy (Sep 18, 2012)

Are you arguing that they deliberately restrict supply in order to create crowds at stores?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2012)

editor said:


> I've no idea and I'm not sure how it's particularly relevant given the context of the discussion. because I've made no mention or claims about the numbers.


So you'd agree that it'd be absurd to generalise in any meaningful way from a tiny proportion of oddballs, to anything beyond that tiny proportion of oddballs?

btw, I'm constantly surprised by how amazed and wary you are of supporting evidence, ed! It's not like it takes much time, what with the miracle of the internet n all.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2012)

Jesus christ havent you lot got anything better to do with your lives than arguing over queues at an apple store?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I rang up and asked what mine is when I was thinking about going onto a different tarriff...... I average about 4.5gb a month.....
> 
> I didnt change tariff


And therein lies my point - particularly with (e.g.) a figure of 1.2gb a month 

It's impossible for people to use less than 0gb / month.

Some people - like you - might be using 4.5gb per month.

Which is very likely to skew the distribution of the data.

There could be 3 people using no data whatsoever per month, plus you, and the mean data usage per month'd still be over 1gb.

Which is why mean values on their own - particularly without standard deviations / data about skew - are hopeless wrt generalising to broader populations.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Jesus christ havent you lot got anything better to do with your lives than arguing over queues at an apple store?


No need!

Argument won 

e2a: or, tbf, I'm more than happy that it's - I think - been agreed that it's absurd to generalise from a very small population of loons to, well, anything other than that very small population of loons.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2012)

The only thing worth queuing for is jerk chicken tbh.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> So you'd agree that it'd be absurd to generalise in any meaningful way from a tiny proportion of oddballs, to anything beyond that tiny proportion of oddballs?


Has anyone been doing that here? Where?

You're really losing the plot here, mate,


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

sim667 said:


> The only thing worth queuing for is jerk chicken tbh.


Can't agree with you there, I'm afraid. 'Orrible stuff.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Are you arguing that they deliberately restrict supply in order to create crowds at stores?


Given the emphasis Apple puts on creating this ludicrous PR circus, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest - and it's a view held by some industry experts:



> iStunt? Apple iPhone 5 'sell-out' questioned
> 
> Phone 5 pre-orders are almost sold out ahead of Friday's launch, leading some Apple faithful and marketing experts to question whether the sell-outs are deliberately engineered by the company for marketing reasons.
> 
> ...


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Has anyone been doing that here? Where?


So you've agreed on the point of principle, and're now up for having your hypocrisy pointed out should you point to whooping, high-fiving, etc in regard to anything other than direct references to that very small proportion of people explicitly engaged in that activity 

Sorted.

[exit stage left]


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> So you've agreed on the point of principle <blah, blah>


Why don't you just answer my question? Thanks.


----------



## gabi (Sep 18, 2012)

Has anyone actually seen whooping, high-fiving people at Apple stores? I admit I only venture in occassionally but I can't say I've seen any of that. They're just nicely designed stores with polite, attentive service in my experience


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Can't agree with you there, I'm afraid. 'Orrible stuff.



I don't think we can be friends anymore


----------



## gabi (Sep 18, 2012)

Jerk chicken is fucking rank, I agree with editor on an Apple thread for once


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

gabi said:


> Has anyone actually seen whooping, high-fiving people at Apple stores? I admit I only venture in occassionally but I can't say I've seen any of that. They're just nicely designed stores with polite, attentive service in my experience


They're only there at the launches and there's usually lots of them. Vast hordes of them are known to run around city blocks en masses, like a mobile train of blue-shirted whoopness.

It's topical because there is a big launch coming up on Friday and the whoop/high five quotient is expected to hit new, critical levels. No one has suggested that Apple stores have staff whooping and high fiving 24/7.


----------



## magneze (Sep 18, 2012)

I like Jerk chicken.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

magneze said:


> I like Jerk chicken.


I'm probably being unfair to jerk chicken. I don't eat meat so I'm never going to like the stuff regardless. That said, I'm often doused in great clouds of smoke coming from the outdoor vendors in my street and I can't say there's ever been much desire generated from the whiff.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 18, 2012)

I hardly use any data last three months averaged 350mb, but then I'm usually always within some sort of wifi range


----------



## magneze (Sep 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I hardly use any data last three months averaged 350mb, but then I'm usually always within some sort of wifi range


What's your opinion on jerk chicken?


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 18, 2012)

sounds rather rude


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I hardly use any data last three months averaged 350mb, but then I'm usually always within some sort of wifi range


I reckon I use pretty much 0 at the moment; but as soon as I find a job and / or am actually working away from home, that should skyrocket.


----------



## gabi (Sep 18, 2012)

Even worse than jerk chicken is chicken patties, the proper jamaican ones. with bones. why the hell do you want to crunch into a bone when eating a pattie.. nutters.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 18, 2012)

I like the theory of jerk chicken but the implementation seems generally poor in practice. I always get some at the carnival and always end up picking through splintered bones until I can't be arsed any more. Same goes for curry goat.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Same goes for curry goat.


Now that I did try once. I recall the bone/meat/enjoyment ratios were more fragmented than the Android OS.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 18, 2012)

For Ed: 

Lessons on Leadership


----------



## Cid (Sep 18, 2012)

Jerk seasoning is basically allspice and chillies, with optional extras in that flavour spectrum (nutmeg, cloves etc)... The fact that it's usually cremated with battery chickens is a bit of a let down. I imagine it would work very nicely with tofu, lightly grilled - perhaps in a wrap with red peppers, red onions etc. Yoghurt and mint to take the edge off the spice. Possibly work with aubergines too.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

Badgers said:


> For Ed:
> 
> Lessons on Leadership


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

Cid said:


> Jerk seasoning is basically allspice and chillies, with optional extras in that flavour spectrum (nutmeg, cloves etc)... The fact that it's usually cremated with battery chickens is a bit of a let down. I imagine it would work very nicely with tofu, lightly grilled - perhaps in a wrap with red peppers, red onions etc. Yoghurt and mint to take the edge off the spice. Possibly work with aubergines too.


Is there a veggie alternative to jerk chicken available? I might like to give that a go.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Are you arguing that they deliberately restrict supply in order to create crowds at stores?


 
There are two possible new product launch stories:

Product has sold out, therefore is really popular
Product is piling up unsold, therefore it's unpopular
My guess is that supply numbers to shops and websites are very, very carefully managed to sell as many as possible, while still "selling out".


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2012)

Pfft jerk chicken. Give me pudding n souse any day over that!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2012)

Idaho said:


> There are two possible new product launch stories:
> 
> Product has sold out, therefore is really popular
> Product is piling up unsold, therefore it's unpopular
> My guess is that supply numbers to shops and websites are very, very carefully managed to sell as many as possible, while still "selling out".



I don't buy the conspiracy theory about constraining units to create demand, these things sell themselves, why would a corporation want to miss out on all that profit?


----------



## Cid (Sep 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Is there a veggie alternative to jerk chicken available? I might like to give that a go.


 
Well, yes, tofu or aubergine - as suggested in the post you quoted... But anything that takes flavour well. Actually would be extremely good with a cheese like halloumi (which is rennet free iirc).


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2012)

Its when the jerk chicken vendors line up and give you high fives as you approach the ordering counter, that does it for me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Its when the jerk chicken vendors line up and give you high fives as you approach the ordering counter, that does it for me.



I and iChicken?


----------



## magneze (Sep 18, 2012)

Cid said:


> Jerk seasoning is basically allspice and chillies, with optional extras in that flavour spectrum (nutmeg, cloves etc)... The fact that it's usually cremated with battery chickens is a bit of a let down. I imagine it would work very nicely with tofu, lightly grilled - perhaps in a wrap with red peppers, red onions etc. Yoghurt and mint to take the edge off the spice. Possibly work with aubergines too.


Sounds awesome.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

> *Apple could be making £426 on every 16GB iPhone 5 sold, according to a new report.*
> TechInsights estimates that Apple’s 16GB iPhone 5 costs $167.50 (£103) to make, and with a selling price of £529, Apple could be making £426 on every sale of the device.
> 
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipad-iphone/news/?newsid=3381796&olo=rss


I wonder how much the employees in the factories are getting of that big, fat juicy profit.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 18, 2012)

Manufacturing costs should be about a 5th of retail cost. There are many, many other costs to add up to before you calculate profit.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

Idaho said:


> Manufacturing costs should be about a 5th of retail cost. There are many, many other costs to add up to before you calculate profit.


Feel free to get out your calculator and lob in some numbers.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2012)

Idaho said:


> Manufacturing costs should be about a 5th of retail cost. There are many, many other costs to add up to before you calculate profit.



Indeed. Pointless arguing over things like that as this thread shows, offer an opinion and it's not enough, totally do your research and it'll just be ignored.


----------



## magneze (Sep 18, 2012)

They should get free jerk chicken and cider. In fact that should be mandatory in every workplace.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 18, 2012)

magneze said:
			
		

> They should get free jerk chicken and cider. In fact that should be mandatory in every workplace.



Come the RevoluJerk


----------



## magneze (Sep 18, 2012)

There should be a banner about this on the next TUC march - 20th October IIRC.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 18, 2012)

Why's the thread soused in jerk chicken, have I missed something?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Why's the thread soused in jerk chicken, have I missed something?


 
Because its the only thing worth queuing for


----------



## Badgers (Sep 18, 2012)

Would jerk chicken be affected by U.S. Patent No. 8,254,902, published recently?


----------



## magneze (Sep 18, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Would jerk chicken be affected by U.S. Patent No. 8,254,902, published recently?


If a Jerk 2.0 chicken vendor were in range then you may not be able to find them with your smartphone. This is probably against Magna Carta.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2012)

Steve Jobs has pledged to annihilate beef patties. From the grave.


----------



## magneze (Sep 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Steve Jobs has pledged to annihilate beef patties. From the grave.


That's just wrong. Just like he was wrong about 6 inch subs.

Or 7 inch tablets. I forget.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Why's the thread soused in jerk chicken, have I missed something?



Ah it's the usual bit of permissible derail fun.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 18, 2012)

Badgers said:
			
		

> U.S. Patent No. 8,254,902, published recently?



On a more serious note that patent is an irritating one.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Feel free to get out your calculator and lob in some numbers.


11 pence from every iphone sold is spent on staples.


----------



## Cid (Sep 18, 2012)

A significant amount of it was spent on legal fees, until they managed to work out how to recover the heat generated by lawyers rubbing their hands together.


----------



## paolo (Sep 19, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ah it's the usual bit of permissible derail fun.



Aka 'temporary exit strategy'... Full re-engagement due. Usually less than 24h.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 19, 2012)

What time is ios 6 released?


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 19, 2012)

Never mind,  10am pdt


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

So that's 6pm our time?


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 19, 2012)

yep. 6pm your time.


----------



## Winot (Sep 19, 2012)

I just walked past the Apple store (Regent St) and there are already a couple of people queuing (asleep in deck chairs).  Seem to be doing it for charidee though, so that's OK.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

Winot said:


> I just walked past the Apple store (Regent St) and there are already a couple of people queuing (asleep in deck chairs).  Seem to be doing it for charidee though, so that's OK.



For the iPhone? Does it come out today? I was gonna wait at least a month before considering it anyway


----------



## Winot (Sep 19, 2012)

sim667 said:


> For the iPhone? Does it come out today? I was gonna wait at least a month before considering it anyway


 
I guess so - think it comes out tomorrow.

I have pre-ordered


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 19, 2012)

It's released Friday.


----------



## Winot (Sep 19, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> It's released Friday.


 
Fuck me, that makes the queuing even more ridiculous.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 19, 2012)

Those guys at the front started queuing last Thursdays.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

> The iPhone 5 doesn't go on sale until 8am on Friday, 21 September - yet lines of fanbois, socio-averse hipsters, campaigners and self-promoting twits awaiting the new mobe are already clogging the pavements outside Apple Stores.
> 
> Yesterday on the steps of London's flagship Regent Street pomaceous-product outlet, punters queueing to seize the slightly updated phone include an unemployed bloke, a very keen Apple enthusiast and his carer and some very recalcitrant bods who insisted that El Reg bring them coffees. No such luck, Popeye.
> 
> The fact that four of the first seven queuers were making films about why people queue for iPhones speaks volumes about pre-launch iPhone hype. Given the media circus surrounding those who shun more practical methods of shopping and instead queue in the British September air, it's not surprising that all of the first six were representing interest groups on the lookout for publicity.


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/19/the_iphone_5_queue_london/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> yep. 6pm your time.



Ok cool so it'll probably be about 10pm before the servers will be stable again...


----------



## gabi (Sep 19, 2012)

editor said:


> _punters queueing to seize the slightly updated phone include an unemployed bloke, a very keen Apple enthusiast and his carer and some very recalcitrant bods who insisted that El Reg bring them coffees_


 
sounds like the average urban75 demographic tbf


----------



## pesh (Sep 19, 2012)

editor said:


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/19/the_iphone_5_queue_london/


 
so with a day and a half to go in London theres about 10 people out there, and the first 6 are either trying to raise awareness for a vulnerable womens charity, an autistic charity or being paid to be there leaving 4 fanboys. 

you're as obsessed by these people as they are by apple


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

pesh said:


> so with a day and a half to go in London theres about 10 people out there, and the first 6 are either trying to raise awareness for a vulnerable womens charity, an autistic charity or being paid to be there leaving 4 fanboys.
> 
> you're as obsessed by these people as they are by apple


I was quoting the article, that's all, and only mentioned the queue because *two other posters had brought it up*.

HTH.


----------



## pesh (Sep 19, 2012)

you quoted the article, posted a pic of the queue and facpalmed them, because 2 other people made you do it?

you're an antifanboy fanboy

HTH


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

pesh said:


> you quoted the article, posted a pic of the queue and facpalmed them, because 2 other people made you do it?
> 
> you're an antifanboy fanboy


It's called _following a discussion_. You know, someone mentions something and then you add a relevant comment of your own and then others carry on with their own comments. That's what discussion boards are set up for. Sorry if you haven't grasped this concept yet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

gabi said:


> sounds like the average urban75 demographic tbf



LOL!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

pesh said:


> so with a day and a half to go in London theres about 10 people out there, and the first 6 are either trying to raise awareness for a vulnerable womens charity, an autistic charity or being paid to be there leaving 4 fanboys.
> 
> you're as obsessed by these people as they are by apple



I think it's great that people are exploiting this for charity and idiot fandroids are helping promote it for free!()


----------



## pesh (Sep 19, 2012)

editor said:


> It's called _following a discussion_. You know, someone mentions something and then you add a relevant comment of your own and then others carry on with their own comments. That's what discussion boards are set up for. Sorry if you haven't grasped this concept yet.



Your 'relevant comment' solely consisted of a fucking smiley and you're trying to lecture me on how to have a discussion?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

Any idea how much space I'll need to install OTA?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

pesh said:


> Your 'relevant comment' solely consisted of a fucking smiley and you're trying to lecture me on how to have a discussion?


My 'relevant comment' was indeed relevant as it added further detail to the previous comment - you know, doing that _discussion thing_ again - and included a photo illustration and a link to more info. People then responded to the further detail I'd posted up. Not sure what your problem is here, really.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Any idea how much space I'll need to install OTA?


 
You need 2.5 gb available.

The download is 599 mb


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2012)

These are the only people "queuing" outside the Regent Street Apple Store. I think there was another empty chair to the left of the bloke in blue. So the reg is full of shit as usual then with "lines...  clogging the pavements".


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> These are the only people "queuing" outside the Regent Street Apple Store. I think there was another empty chair to the left of the bloke in blue. So the reg is full of shit as usual then with "lines... clogging the pavements".
> 
> View attachment 23225


 
Let's discuss the shit out of that shit HELL YEAH


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

oh god i want to stereotype them all, so much.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

Iphone software update: 3 hours remaining


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

Be such a shame if the street cleaner vehicle accidentally hosed them down at 4am.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

editor said:


> Be such a shame if the street cleaner vehicle accidentally hosed them down at 4am.


 
PCSO's will be dispatched to move them on as if they were homeless.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 19, 2012)

Just a reminder,if you're jailbroken stay away from iOS6 until devteam release.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

sim667 said:


> PCSO's will be dispatched to move them on as if they were homeless.


It does rather beg the question: if homeless people can't sleep in Regent Street even though they have nowhere else to go, why should fanboys be allowed to stay there for several nights when they have nice comfy beds to go home to?


----------



## pesh (Sep 19, 2012)

editor said:


> Be such a shame if the street cleaner vehicle accidentally hosed them down at 4am.


especially the autistic kid and his carer.

HI 5!


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

pesh said:


> especially the autistic kid and his carer.
> 
> HI 5!


You're right. He shouldn't be there.


----------



## pesh (Sep 19, 2012)

but he is so lets go get the water canon 

and why shouldn't he be there out of interest?


----------



## tarannau (Sep 19, 2012)

Wahey on the miserablism. Nothing could be as rewarding as becoming an utter nimby about a comparatively sparsely populated stretch of pavement a few miles away from your house.

I suggest that some post entirely in green from now on for added effect.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

NIMBY? What?


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 19, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Iphone software update: 3 hours remaining


 
Mine's only taken about 15mins so far including the download, nearly finished now just verifying.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 19, 2012)

Done, and my 3GS seems quite a bit quicker now too


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

my bandwidth allowance of 5 gig is taking a hammering today

2 apple tv updates, 500mb each, 1 iPhone, 800 mb and an HD rip of sons of anarchy 2 gb.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Let's discuss the shit out of that shit HELL YEAH



Totally! Also let's make sure we talk about the high fives and whooping because we've NEVER done that before!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Done, and my 3GS seems quite a bit quicker now too



Cool I was wondering how it's handle it.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Mine's only taken about 15mins so far including the download, nearly finished now just verifying.


Yeah, I started my iPad (though I've got a night shift starting in 2.5hrs so wasn't sure how sharp an idea that was).

Initially stated it'd be a 23min DL, rapidly dropped to 12.

And our connection is *shit*


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Mine's only taken about 15mins so far including the download, nearly finished now just verifying.


 
did you do it ota?

Im doing it on my mac, as I didn't have enough space on my phone..... taking ages!


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 19, 2012)

no updated via itunes and a cable #oldskool


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

just finished, gonna have a little play with it now.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 19, 2012)

think I prefer the old maps tbh


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 19, 2012)

I lost all sounds and vibrate on my notifications last week, I was hoping iOS 6 might fix this... it hasn't


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

new maps has turn by turn doesn't it?

My phone seems a bit snappier too tbh.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

Artichoke *never* updates anything.

HOWEVER. I'm confident she'll update her iPad to iOS 6.

Because it - apparently - has a clock.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm peeing my pants with excitement


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Artichoke *never* updates anything.
> 
> HOWEVER. I'm confident she'll update her iPad to iOS 6.
> 
> Because it - apparently - has a clock.


iOS 5 has a clock


----------



## jannerboyuk (Sep 19, 2012)

editor said:


> You're right. He shouldn't be there.


who the fuck are you to say that? arrogant prick


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

The iPhone 5 has managed to make it on to BBC TVs Watchdog program, which is on now.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 19, 2012)

I messaged my girlfriend during a break at my language school to tell her to update her phone and iPad. Then when I get home in a bit I can see if she is complaining they are broken before I install it on mine


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> I messaged my girlfriend during a break at my language school to tell her to update her phone and iPad. Then when I get home in a bit I can see if she is complaining they are broken before I install it on mine


You're all heart!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> iOS 5 has a clock


Oh, not on iPad it doesn't


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 19, 2012)

editor said:


> The iPhone 5 has managed to make it on to BBC TVs Watchdog program, which is on now.


 
They should put it in amongst a load of rabbit/guinea pig shit and see who will retrieve it


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 19, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Oh, not on iPad it doesn't


 
pretty sure it does


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> pretty sure it does


It does *now*

It didn't *then*

Not in terms of a full clock app, with stopwatch, timer, etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> iOS 5 has a clock



For iPad? Mine hasnt...


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

I like the *aesthetic* of the new app store.

I have a feeling that navigating it'll be a bit like mopping up cat sick, though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> It does *now*
> 
> It didn't *then*
> 
> Not in terms of a full clock app, with stopwatch, timer, etc.



Yup, my third gen iPad doesn't have a clock...


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> For iPad? Mine hasnt...


It didn't.

Update, and it will now!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2012)

There's a clock at the top of the screen. It shows the time, it's a clock.

There are also umpteen clock apps around (I actually have a folder called "Clocks").


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

Well it's been a virtuous apple update day.

Love AirPlay mirroring from my laptop to appletv shame it's not on my iPad one.

Likin iOS 5 on me phone tho. It's running a lot quicker!!


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

The first reviews for Apple's new maps app aren't very good at all.


> Reviews of Apple's new maps application are in, and they aren't great.
> Everyone praises the app's look and feel, but critics have said it is inferior to the app it replaced in important ways. CNET's Jason Parker said users would likely miss Google Maps. "Not only are Google Maps no longer integrated, but also you're further walled into Apple's ecosystem," he wrote.
> 
> Harsher notes were sounded by All Things D's Walt Mossberg, who called it the "biggest drawback" of the iPhone 5. Daring Fireball's John Gruber labeled the app "a downgrade," and Bloomberg's Rich Jaroslavsky found it was "too easily confused, especially in urban areas."
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

Where the fuck has street view gone?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Where the fuck has street view gone?


Apple has decided that you'd rather have pretty aerial imagery instead. Enjoy!


> Another feature that falls by the wayside in iOS 6 is Street View. Google spent a lot of energy collecting street-level imagery of the U.S. with its fleet of camera-bearing cars. Apple, on the other hand, has played its one-up card by enlisting an armada of small planes and helicopters to capture aerial imagery for a feature it calls Flyovers.
> http://www.macworld.com/article/201...-6-highlighted-by-stunning-maps-overhaul.html


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There's a clock at the top of the screen. It shows the time, it's a clock.
> 
> There are also umpteen clock apps around (I actually have a folder called "Clocks").


Well.

Now there's a clock APP.

Like the one on iPhones & iPods. With alarms. And stuff. That aren't third party, and either a bit shonky, or a bit costly.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 19, 2012)

So can you now set alarms via Siri on the iPad3?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> It didn't.
> 
> Update, and it will now!


 
Yeah I thought we were talking about an app...apparently FM meant the clock at the top of the page...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

Looks like Apple has really sorted out it's servers, my download of iOS5 this time last year was very slow, right now my iPad is downloading iOS6 very quickly!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

The benchmarks are coming in, iPhone 5 top of the table for Java:


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2012)

editor said:


> Apple has decided that you'd rather have pretty aerial imagery instead. Enjoy!



Oh lovely


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

Incredible bump in low light photography from the 4S to 5:


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Oh lovely


Just wait for the Google Maps app that is no doubt on its way.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2012)

They still won't let you set seconds in the timer in the Clock app!  FFS!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Seems to run fine on my 4S...heard something about a mass wifi issue but that appears to be resolved now...


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

CNet have posted their iPhone 5 review: http://www.cnet.com/iphone-5/

The photos taken with its camera look great.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

One interesting little update to Pages, it now lets you choose to open a document in three different formats and another app (such as Dropbox). A curious decision coming from Apple...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Im actually due an upgrade on o2...... I can get the iphone 5 on o2.... but I refuse to have limited data out of principle (and Ill constantly go over the top of it).

I dont know which supplier would be best, I've been on o2 for years!


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Seems to run fine on my 4S...heard something about a mass wifi issue but that appears to be resolved now...


What does?


----------



## paolo (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Im actually due an upgrade on o2...... I can get the iphone 5 on o2.... but I refuse to have limited data out of principle (and Ill constantly go over the top of it).
> 
> I dont know which supplier would be best, I've been on o2 for years!



If you've still got the unlimited O2 contract, I wouldn't give it up myself. Just means you have to buy your own handset. Offset with what you can get for the old one, of course.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> ...heard something about a mass wifi issue but that appears to be resolved now...


I had that problem last night about between midnight and 1am, Apple's servers took over my wifi constantly disconnecting it and showing a Apple store this page can't be found. Very big brother


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2012)

I'll be sticking with iOS5 for Googlemaps, no doubt better speed and the fact that there's fuck all there for an iPhone 4. (Also jailbreak).

Oh well, I'll eventually have to get one of these iPhone 5s as Mrs S wants my iPhone 4, she's sick of her 3G. She did just break the screen again which messed up the capacitance layer.

My iPhone 4 isn't much better but the touch layer still works:


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 20, 2012)

I'm surprised google hasn't already come out with a map app - perhaps Apple's gate keepers are delaying things.

I've been trying to have an accident all week with my iP4, but it's a tough little blighter.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 20, 2012)

My lips are sealed, but who could the chap in red be?


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I'm surprised google hasn't already come out with a map app - perhaps Apple's gate keepers are delaying things.


If it's not Apple playing silly buggers again, I could see a political angle in Google making iOS 6 users wait.

Let users get really pissed of with the crappy Apple version and then triumphantly announce an updated and improved version of their own app (they've just released a neat update to the Android version, btw).


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I'll be sticking with iOS5 for Googlemaps, no doubt better speed and the fact that there's fuck all there for an iPhone 4. (Also jailbreak).
> 
> Oh well, I'll eventually have to get one of these iPhone 5s as Mrs S wants my iPhone 4, she's sick of her 3G. She did just break the screen again which messed up the capacitance layer.
> 
> My iPhone 4 isn't much better but the touch layer still works:


 
My housemate got his fixed for £30 in orpington..... but screens are easy to do yourself..... look it up on ifixit


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> My housemate got his fixed for £30 in orpington..... but screens are easy to do yourself..... look it up on ifixit


 
I fixed my 3G but that 4 is a real pain in the arse. You've basically got to take the entire innards out from the back to get to the screen.
I've not found anyone as cheap as that here.
It's actually insured, but I have to do without it for 10 days 

EditL Also the LCD is stuck to the glass, so you've got to pay for a new LCD screen, so it's 120€ minimum.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I fixed my 3G but that 4 is a real pain in the arse. You've basically got to take the entire innards out from the back to get to the screen.
> I've not found anyone as cheap as that here.
> It's actually insured, but I have to do without it for 10 days
> 
> EditL Also the LCD is stuck to the glass, so you've got to pay for a new LCD screen, so it's 120€ minimum.


 
Really?

My freind got his screen changed for £30 all in, literally 3 days ago on an iphone 4.

Are you sure someones not trying to jank you?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Just looking at options for getting an iPhone 5

what are 3 mobile like these days? They're the only company I can find who do unlimited data.

Also iMessages dont count out of your text allowance do they? Is that the same for MMS?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I fixed my 3G but that 4 is a real pain in the arse. You've basically got to take the entire innards out from the back to get to the screen.
> I've not found anyone as cheap as that here.
> It's actually insured, but I have to do without it for 10 days
> 
> EditL Also the LCD is stuck to the glass, so you've got to pay for a new LCD screen, so it's 120€ minimum.


Apple will swap your phone for a refurb £€ 120.(most of the DIY screens are shite)


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Just looking at options for getting an iPhone 5
> 
> what are 3 mobile like these days? They're the only company I can find who do unlimited data.
> 
> Also iMessages dont count out of your text allowance do they? Is that the same for MMS?


Someone posted a spreadsheet of providers, deal, components of those deals, up front cost, monthly cost & total cost a few pages back.

Other companies def do unlimited data (including t-mobile, who I've been with for 15yrs). Three are cheapest tho, iirc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Just looking at options for getting an iPhone 5
> 
> what are 3 mobile like these days? They're the only company I can find who do unlimited data.
> 
> Also iMessages dont count out of your text allowance do they? Is that the same for MMS?




Nope iMessage works via data, I've been on Three for a year and they've been fantastic, I'm using 3.5 gigs a month in data download without not one peep from them, they don't do that crappy fair use shit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> What does?



Sorry, wasn't clear, I meant iOS 6.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Someone posted a spreadsheet of providers, deal, components of those deals, up front cost, monthly cost & total cost a few pages back.
> 
> Other companies def do unlimited data (including t-mobile, who I've been with for 15yrs). Three are cheapest tho, iirc.


 
The t-mobile site implied they did, but when i got to the tarriffs it was all 500-750mb


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nope iMessage works via data, I've been on Three for a year and they've been fantastic, I'm using 3.5 gigs a month in data download without not one peep from them, they don't do that crappy fair use shit.


 
I was with them when they did the old motorola phones, is the customer service still shit?

Do you get an MMS allowance, and does visual voicemail and personal hotspot work now?

Sorry to berate you with questions


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> The t-mobile site implied they did, but when i got to the tarriffs it was all 500-750mb


The full monty. Is the name of the deal. I think.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Very happy with iMessage being sorted out now, it runs properly across multiple devices with little issue IMO.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)




----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 20, 2012)

installed ios6 on my ipad 3 earlier, had no problem downloading or installing it, what i did have a problem with was my icloud / tunes password, it wouldnt take it and it took me an hour to get it synced, and this was only achieved by changing my password via itunes on my laptop


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

So my choice would be

t-mobile: £189 for the phone, then £46 a month for unlimited data, texts and calls. I can also get a £5 bolt on for t-mobile, which I'd blates get.

3 mobile: £109 for the phone, then there's 2 options I could go for.
£109 up front, £42 a month, unlimited data, 2000 mins any network, 5000 texts, 5000 three mobile minutes

or

£109 up front: then £40 a month for unlimited data, 500 any network mins, 5000 texts.

All 24 month contracts, but I dont understand why anyone would take the second three option.

So t-mobile would cost me £1413 total. 3 mobile would be £1117

It used to be the case that 3 mobile didnt support tethering or visual voicemail..... but if they do now, im totally going three mobile, saves me £300

a limited data price plan just isnt an option.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Really?
> 
> My freind got his screen changed for £30 all in, literally 3 days ago on an iphone 4.
> 
> Are you sure someones not trying to jank you?


 
I'll have to look around then. Best I've seen is 130 a couple of months ago..

iFixit charge 120 just for the part.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 20, 2012)

3 mobile support tethering, even on payg, I'm using it right at this very moment since my broadband went down last night.


----------



## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> So my choice would be
> 
> t-mobile: £189 for the phone, then £46 a month for unlimited data, texts and calls. I can also get a £5 bolt on for t-mobile, which I'd blates get.
> 
> ...


 

how much are you paying in line rental at the moment?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> So my choice would be
> 
> t-mobile: £189 for the phone, then £46 a month for unlimited data, texts and calls. I can also get a £5 bolt on for t-mobile, which I'd blates get.
> 
> ...


T-mobile *officially* charge £7 PCM for tethering. Iirc. However, it was fully enabled on my mum's iPhone (got last month), she sure as shit wouldn't opt for it, and she's paying £36 PCM.

Btw, if I was going for one of the three options, it'd probably be the second. It's £50 over the 2yrs, and certainly ATM I'm far more data hungry than text / voice call hungry.

E2a: yeah, more than 8hrs of voice calls in a month? Fuck that


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2012)

I think Apple are losing it.

This is the search results in the App Store:








1 result at a time!  

1 result at a time!

cunt off Apple, stop making us dumber.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> I'll have to look around then. Best I've seen is 130 a couple of months ago..
> 
> iFixit charge 120 just for the part.


 
Is it just the screen you need doing?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

pesh said:


> how much are you paying in line rental at the moment?


 
I pay either £45 or £35, I cant remember. I think its £45 though.

Im blates going to go with three......

I just want to know if visual voicemail works with them now.

The only benefit of t-mobile is that i'd get 4g sooner..... but is that worth an extra £300?


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2012)

Samsung anti iPhone facebook campaign backfires


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Is it just the screen you need doing?


 
Well... I broke the back too...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Well... I broke the back too...



Oh.

Oops.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Samsung anti iPhone facebook campaign backfires


Maybe they should have asked what phone they'd take if they needed to navigate anywhere.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 20, 2012)

They should've if Samsung didn't suck at marketing.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I pay either £45 or £35, I cant remember. I think its £45 though.
> 
> Im blates going to go with three......
> 
> ...


 
O2 are the only ones in the UK to offer visual voicemail http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1937


----------



## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

i'm loving the fact Samsung tried to do a fanboy type launch for the S3 complete with magician and free ice cream 

http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2180880/samsung-galaxy-s3-launch-fails-attract-iphone-crowds


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

pesh said:


> i'm loving the fact Samsung tried to do a fanboy type launch for the S3 complete with magician and free ice cream
> 
> http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2180880/samsung-galaxy-s3-launch-fails-attract-iphone-crowds


That story is four months old, but anything involving magicians and clowns is well worthy of generous lashings of sneering.

Mind you, the phone did go on to be the best selling gadget ever, so perhaps Samsung's customers just don't go in for PR fanboy circus antics. Which is a good thing.

Edit to add: most sensible user comment on the article:


> Could be that Samsung fans are less fanatical and more interested in simply pre-ordering it online as opposed to waiting in line...
> 
> and..
> 
> You could pre-order the S3 online and get it couriered to your house on release day.


More launch day fails all round please!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> O2 are the only ones in the UK to offer visual voicemail http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1937



Well that's a bit bollocks. I would just disable voicemail completely in that case


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 20, 2012)

you could always use hullomail http://www.hullomail.com/indexdesktop.html


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well that's a bit bollocks. I would just disable voicemail completely in that case


What?  What for?


----------



## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I pay either £45 or £35, I cant remember. I think its £45 though.
> 
> Im blates going to go with three......
> 
> ...


 
blimey, thats a shit ton to be paying out of contract. even with unlimited data.

buying the phone outright and then getting a sim only deal would be a fair bit cheaper over 24 months and you wouldn't be on a contract so could change to whatever 4G plan comes along eventually that you want. assuming you get the right phone for the right network.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> you could always use hullomail http://www.hullomail.com/indexdesktop.html


What's the catch?  There has to be a catch!


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> What's the catch? There has to be a catch!


 
Dunno, I'm just about to test it out myself.

There's added features with the paid version obviously. http://www.hullomail.com/compare.html


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

pesh said:


> blimey, thats a shit ton to be paying out of contract. even with unlimited data.
> 
> buying the phone outright and then getting a sim only deal would be a fair bit cheaper over 24 months and you wouldn't be on a contract so could change to whatever 4G plan comes along eventually that you want. assuming you get the right phone for the right network.



There aren't any sim only deals with unlimited data anymore though are there.

Giff gaff are stopping theirs by the way


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Samsung anti iPhone facebook campaign backfires



Well insulting millions of ordinary people which makes up iPhone owners these days was never a clever idea...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Dunno, I'm just about to test it out myself.
> 
> There's added features with the paid version obviously. http://www.hullomail.com/compare.html



I'd be interested to see how that works out for you.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 20, 2012)

How do you get your operator to divert there? I imagine you can't do it on PAYG, but I'm not even sure you can do it on all operators on contract.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> There aren't any sim only deals with unlimited data anymore though are there.
> 
> Giff gaff are stopping theirs by the way


 
http://store.three.co.uk/SIM_Only/Voice_Pay_Monthly


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Samsung anti iPhone facebook campaign backfires





Spoiler: big image










 
*sharp intake of breath*


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> What's the catch? There has to be a catch!


 
Well it uses call divert. And you have to pay yearly to get premium features & remove adverts from the app.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

Idiots would go and include 'all new maps' on the iPhone side, ay


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> *sharp intake of breath*


 
Any chance of finding a smaller version of that image?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> http://store.three.co.uk/SIM_Only/Voice_Pay_Monthly


£12.90 for unlimited data... crikey. Reckon I'd be going with that if I wasn't going for a contract!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

elbows said:


> Any chance of finding a smaller version of that image?


Spoiler tagged instead.


----------



## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> There aren't any sim only deals with unlimited data anymore though are there.
> 
> Giff gaff are stopping theirs by the way


 
http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/sim-only/plans/

looks like 3 are doing a deal at the moment, £21 on a 12 months contract for unlimited everything... i'd be tempted if i wasn't getting pretty much the same from O2 on an old sim only contract


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

The cheapest three mobile sim only tariff is £15.90, so if I was on that for two years, I.e. the same length as the contract I'm thinking of, and the cost of the phone £699, it would cost £1080, a grand saving of £37.

I'd rather spend the £37 and not have it factor into my head that I actually spent £700 on a mobile phone


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> *sharp intake of breath*


It's almost like you *want* the bunfight!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

pesh said:


> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/sim-only/plans/
> 
> looks like 3 are doing a deal at the moment, £21 on a 12 months contract for unlimited everything... i'd be tempted if i wasn't getting pretty much the same from O2 on an old sim only contract



That works out at more over 2 years though


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 20, 2012)

They often do big cashback offers via quidco for sim only so it's worth checking there first. http://www.quidco.com/mobiles/


----------



## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> That works out at more over 2 years though


nope, buying outright and sim only deal works out £90 cheaper over 24 months and the contract is only 12. but yeah, not much in it.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

I've never understood quidco


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

editor said:


> It's almost like you *want* the bunfight!


By acknowledging that it's OTT and then putting it in spoiler tags? The parody of a Samsung ad? Which Samsung put together?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'd have you on ignore if it was an option. No, really. As in, never reading another one of your tech posts again. Not provoking you by either accident or design, and not being provokable, either. And, tbh, not giving a fuck whether or not you thought my posts were 'provoking' you, because I just wouldn't see (and tbh wouldn't give much of a monkeys about) your 'provoked' reaction.

*That's* how badly I 'want the bunfight.'


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

pesh said:


> nope, buying outright and sim only deal works out £90 cheaper over 24 months and the contract is only 12. but yeah, not much in it.



Er.... 21x24 (+699) = 1203 

That's more than the 3 contract


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> The cheapest three mobile sim only tariff is £15.90, so if I was on that for two years, I.e. the same length as the contract I'm thinking of, and the cost of the phone £699, it would cost £1080, a grand saving of £37.
> 
> I'd rather spend the £37 and not have it factor into my head that I actually spent £700 on a mobile phone


 
£75 cashback through quidco on this sim only deal if you choose 12 month rolling instead of 1 month rolling. So save £150 over the 24 months.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

What type of buns are you going to be fighting with boys?


----------



## pesh (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Er.... 21x24 (+699) = 1203
> 
> That's more than the 3 contract


 
sorry ment t-mobile, not 3, t-mobile 24 month contract with the top end phone is £1293


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> What type of buns are you going to be fighting with boys?




I'm out.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> £75 cashback through quidco on this sim only deal if you choose 12 month rolling instead of 1 month rolling. So save £150 over the 24 months.



I'd rather just keep it simple tbh. I'll look into it though, but contracts and all this stuff confuses me greatly, so I tend to pay a little over the odds, but keep it very straightforward..... Think it might be a dyspraxic thing that I find t&cs etc so complicated to the point I want to cry. I normally just get my mum to read all that gumpf, but I'm tryin to be a big boy these days, now she's abroad most of the time.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I've never understood quidco


I had a go once and somehow messed it up and lost all interest from that moment on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Weird, my App Store seems to have reverted back to ye olde iOS 5 version;



Anyone else getting this?


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2012)

A list of some of the less obvious improvements in iOS 6 here:

http://www.macstories.net/tutorials/ios-6-tips-tricks-hidden-features/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Just tried out FaceTime over 3G, sound was very good, picture less so but usable. Useful however to have though.


----------



## T & P (Sep 20, 2012)

Is anyone else's Whatsapp fucked since updating to IO 6? Mine certainly is; lost all the contacts and won't search for them again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Nope mines working as before...


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 21, 2012)

Google Maps is actually still available right now, through a browser. No Street View though.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 21, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Google Maps is actually still available right now, through a browser. No Street View though.


 
The Google Maps web app is actually even better than the old or new map apps. If they make it into a proper app and chuck in streetview too I'll be very happy indeed.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Weird, my App Store seems to have reverted back to ye olde iOS 5 version;
> 
> View attachment 23242
> 
> Anyone else getting this?


that's not the IOS looking version. THat had updates and search to the right.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

It's gone back now. Not sure I like updates being in the centre keep tapping it without thinking to get to something else...!


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

And they're off!













> The latest Apple gadget became available from 8am, as hundreds were cheered into the brand's store in Covent Garden, central London.
> 
> Apple store workers dressed in blue T-shirts formed a passageway and high-fived customers who had been waiting outside the shop for up to a week.


According to the Fail report, it seems a substantial amount of the people in the queue are there just to make money for themselves by immediately selling the phones on..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...launch-Apple-fans-world-streets-hours-go.html


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

The Paris launch sounded more interesting. 


> And with a small horde of photographers, reporters, and TV news cameras, it's also a good place to lodge a protest.
> At Apple's store at Opera, a couple dozen people from two separate groups came to raise a stink about Apple: the Solidaires Unitaires Democratiques (SUD) union vying for better benefits and eBizcuss a retailer of Apple products that closed down its business in July after alleged ill treatment by Apple.
> 
> SUD Secretary Laurent Degousee said the union is seeking little things -- rest breaks for employees, drinking water, and vouchers to pay for meals at restaurants. "Eating in Paris -- it's very expensive," he said.
> ...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 21, 2012)

editor said:


> And they're off!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Nobody gives a shit, Ed.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> Nobody gives a shit, Ed.


Except for all the newspapers and websites covering it of, course. I hope more trade unions and political groups take full advantage of this circus.


----------



## twistedAM (Sep 21, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> Nobody gives a shit, Ed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> Nobody gives a shit, Ed.



Sad twats on the Internet do, the rest of us normal people probably not...


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 21, 2012)

I have only just found out that Apple uses Samsung processors in its iphones. If I had known that earlier I would have felt more reassured about buying an Apple phone.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 21, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I have only just found out that Apple uses Samsung processors in its iphones. If I had known that earlier I would have felt more reassured about buying an Apple phone.


 
Designed by Apple, made by Samsung.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Designed by Apple, made by Samsung.



Put together by child slaves which is only an outrage if Apple does it.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Put together by child slaves which is only an outrage if Apple does it.


I think they have upped the age range of the Apple factory workers. I read recently that the Chinese government had closed down the colleges near the Apple-supplying factory for a few weeks and forced the computer students to work making the new iPhone. They used the excuse that it was relevant experience of the real world for these students. But really it was to meet the demand of Apple in the approach to the launch. Capitalism and Communism working together in the interests of who knows who?


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I think they have upped the age range of the Apple factory workers. I read recently that the Chinese government had closed down the colleges near the Apple-supplying factory for a few weeks and forced the computer students to work making the new iPhone. They used the excuse that it was relevant experience of the real world for these students. But really it was to meet the demand of Apple in the approach to the launch. Capitalism and Communism working together in the interests of who knows who?


Yep. The story was that vocational students were being compelled to work at plants making iPhones and their components just so they could all be ready in time to fit in with Apple's PR-boosting big launch day.



> “They said they are forced to work by the teachers,” Li Qiang, founder of China Labor Watch, one of the advocacy organizations and a frequent critic of Foxconn’s labor policies, said in an interview on Monday. Mr. Li said his staff had spoken with multiple workers and students who, as recently as Sunday, said that 10 of 87 workers on an iPhone assembly line were students.
> 
> “They don’t want to work there — they want to learn,” said Mr. Li. “But if they don’t work, they are told they will not graduate, because it is a very busy time with the new iPhone coming, and Foxconn does not have enough workers without the students.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/t...-iphones.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 21, 2012)

editor said:


> Except for me, me, me me, me, me, me. of course...


 

corrected for you...

face it the person most amazed and who most enjoys the apple hype is you so you can be sneering of it... without it you'd be faced with complaining like the billions of other about losing work on your pc cos windows gone dun crashed again...

you'd have nothing to do of an evening...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Put together by child slaves which is only an outrage if Apple does it.


they did invent iSlavery tho no one else ever did it before them


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 21, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I think they have upped the age range of the Apple factory workers. I read recently that the Chinese government had closed down the colleges near the Apple-supplying factory for a few weeks and forced the computer students to work making the new iPhone. They used the excuse that it was relevant experience of the real world for these students. But really it was to meet the demand of Apple in the approach to the launch. Capitalism and Communism working together in the interests of who knows who?


you know who it's always been thus... those in power do what suits those in power red hats or blue hats or yellow hats...


----------



## Idaho (Sep 21, 2012)

Just walked past Exeter Apple store and the barracades and cordons were entirely unpopulated. I have to admit sniggering when I walked past.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> corrected for you...


Don't piss about with quotes, please. It's very childish.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 21, 2012)

editor said:


> Don't piss about with quotes, please. It's very childish.


quoted for posterity... 

don't fucking derail threads with your insufferable bile against one particular company like a fucking fanyboi that's particularly childish and tedious to boot at least mine had humour when was the last time you said something remotely humours about apple when uncle Tell shot it off your bloody head?????


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Scratchgate begins!*






http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1448875

_*as in scrape a chunk of metal against the back of the phone and - amazingly - it scratches! Sue Apple!_


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> don't fucking derail threads with your insufferable bile against one particular company like a fucking fanyboi that's particularly childish and tedious to boot at least mine had humour when was the last time you said something remotely humours about apple when uncle Tell shot it off your bloody head?????


Thanks for that. This fanyboi will be sure to bear it in in mind.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 21, 2012)

Woman I work with just took delivery of 7 of these!!!


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

The Guardian - one of the most hysterical fans of Apple - has a poll: 



A better question comes in the user comments:


> "Is The Guardian devoting a disproportionate amount of coverage to the launch of the new iPhone 5?"
> Yes.


I'm mostly enjoying seeing their fanboy writer Charles Arthur being absolutely roasted all over their site by readers at the moment.


----------



## Cid (Sep 21, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Woman I work with just took delivery of 7 of these!!!


 
Ask if you can have a look then try to scratch the back?


----------



## Cid (Sep 21, 2012)

Ed looking at news reports of the iPhone 5 launch earlier today:


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Cid said:


> Ask if you can have a look then try to scratch the back?


Yes. Get your keys out, give the phone a jolly good scratching and then if any marks appear, I suggest you immediately write a blog entry for one of the Apple sites, decrying the major new flaw in the iPhone.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Cid said:


> Ed looking at news reports of the iPhone 5 launch earlier today:


To be honest I've had to read a load of those reports today and my reaction is far more:


----------



## Idaho (Sep 21, 2012)

Cid said:


> Ed looking at news reports of the iPhone 5 launch earlier today:


 
Smug company producing smug products with smug marketing invites smugness at its failings.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Bono and Steve Jobs had man love. True story.



> In 2004 music fan Jobs was equally effusive about U2: “U2 is one of the greatest bands in the world and we are floored to be working with them. We just want to make some innovative products together, and we hope U2 fans will love having their very own special edition iPod.”
> US singer Bono responded: “We want our audience to have a more intimate online relationship with the band, and Apple can help us do that. With iPod and iTunes, Apple has created a crossroads of art, commerce and technology which feels good for both musicians and fans.”
> Read more: http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 21, 2012)

editor said:


> Scratchgate begins!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is not really a problem. Just a rub down with T-Cut and a skim re-spray at your local garage and it will be as good as new.


----------



## Cid (Sep 21, 2012)

Jobs appears to appreciating the firmness of Bono's left cheek.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> This is not really a problem. Just a rub down with T-Cut and a skim re-spray at your local garage and it will be as good as new.


Might as well put in a few go-faster stripes while you're at it.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 21, 2012)




----------



## Badgers (Sep 21, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Woman I work with just took delivery of 7 of these!!!


 
Did not realise there was a limit of 2 per order. She had her neighbours in on it and all sorts. Be funny if she drops hers in the bath later.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 21, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Did not realise there was a limit of 2 per order. She had her neighbours in on it and all sorts. Be funny if she drops hers in the bath later.


I'm not sure there is a limit on 2 per order I've ordered loads today for work and my own...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> they did invent iSlavery tho no one else ever did it before them



I think my ancestors would disagree...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think my ancestors would disagree...


iThink was invented by them too


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

Anyone actually got any experienced of Passbook yet? There seems little in the UK store...


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

This guys sounds like a real charmer. 


> Kaiser, 34, was going to get a 64GB model in black. It would cost him £699. "I'm a real Apple fanboy," he said. "Last time they brought out a new phone, I had a man from my office queue for me. But queuing overnight for a new phone is on my bucket list. I don't want to offend anyone here, but Apple would be my church. This is my Sunday worship."
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/21/iphone-5-queue-london


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

One thing I love about iOS 6 is no longer having to log in when updating apps. Just click update and it does it works away!


----------



## Cid (Sep 21, 2012)

_Kaiser, 34, who describes himself as a new media entrepreneur, was going to get a 64GB model in black. It would cost him £699. "I'm a real Apple fanboy," he said. "Last time they brought out a new phone, I had a man from my office queue for me. But queuing overnight for a new phone is on my bucket list. I don't want to offend anyone here, but Apple would be my church. This is my Sunday worship."_
_http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/21/iphone-5-queue-london_

Bit of detail added.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> One thing I love about iOS 6 is no longer having to log in when updating apps. Just click update and it does it works away!


That frequent log in was the only way I had of ensuring I rememberd my Apple account password.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> One thing I love about iOS 6 is no longer having to log in when updating apps. Just click update and it does it works away!



Like android then?


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

Cid said:


> _Kaiser, 34, who describes himself as a new media entrepreneur, was going to get a 64GB model in black. It would cost him £699. "I'm a real Apple fanboy," he said. "Last time they brought out a new phone, I had a man from my office queue for me. But queuing overnight for a new phone is on my bucket list. I don't want to offend anyone here, but Apple would be my church. This is my Sunday worship."_
> _http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/21/iphone-5-queue-london_
> 
> Bit of detail added.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2012)

More about the French protest against Apple: 


> Hundreds of French iPhone fans lining up at Apple Inc's flagship store in Paris to buy the new iPhone 5 got an earful on Friday from disgruntled employees and former retailers protesting against the group's policies.
> Some 20 former staffers of independent Apple distributors which closed after struggling to compete with Apple's own stores marched in front of its flagship Paris store.
> Joining them were three store employees striking to protest against Apple's refusal to offer perks such as meal vouchers and a yearly bonus of an extra one month's salary that are standard for many French workers.


----------



## Firky (Sep 21, 2012)

Cid said:


> _Kaiser, 34, who *describes himself as a new media entrepreneur*, _


 
That's really quite painful to read but it comes to no surprise it's from the Guardian.


----------



## Cid (Sep 21, 2012)

I was taking the piss, but that also neatly answers ed's  .


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

Badgers said:


> Like android then?



Who really cares?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

Tried out the turn by turn nav tonight in the car, worked pretty damn well. Maps didn't look so shit when it's acting like a TomTom.


----------



## Maltin (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Tried out the turn by turn nav tonight in the car, worked pretty damn well. Maps didn't look so shit when it's acting like a TomTom.


I did too. Was ok. The thing that annoyed me about it was that it gave me a choice of three routes and I choose the second one however it then proceeded to ignore my selection and send me on its first choice.  don't know if this was user error or a further problem with the app.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Who really cares?



One man cares.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

Badgers said:


> One man cares.



?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2012)

Maltin said:


> I did too. Was ok. The thing that annoyed me about it was that it gave me a choice of three routes and I choose the second one however it then proceeded to ignore my selection and send me on its first choice.  don't know if this was user error or a further problem with the app.



Ah sounds like a bug, mine didn't do that.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> ?



Exactly


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2012)

Right then. So three unhelpful posts instead of just one.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 22, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Right then. So three unhelpful posts instead of just one.



I am trying to fit in.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 22, 2012)

editor said:


>


New media entrepreneur... Well weapon...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 22, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Tried out the turn by turn nav tonight in the car, worked pretty damn well. Maps didn't look so shit when it's acting like a TomTom.


Uncle shilobas was on it at Stamford hill cross roads on launch of apple maps but its gone now and the area map has been updated. Fingers crossed they'll all be soon... What I can't understand is why if they've got a licence with tomtom who have a licence with ms and provide data to ms maps too they could just pony up the cash to update it to at least a tomtom map that was from this century...  Uncle shilobas sadly closed in 1998 some 14 years ago... And is now the bakery... So I can't imagine that they paid very much for the historical data at all, it being that out of date...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2012)

Read this excellent post on mapping: http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=399


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 22, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Read this excellent post on mapping: http://blog.telemapics.com/?p=399


Yup the only solution now is either to buy in the refined mapping data or back track..

A I said the iPhone 5 needs to be spectacular or it'll kill apple, and thus far and I'm sure this isn't the end of this apple COO's are interested in trying to maintain the golden goose post Jobs but really have little idea and are pushing updates out (Mbp retina screen nothing else iPad 3 screen nothing else etc etc etc) in an attempt to cash in before the goose dies...

Troubled times ahead.  

Til woz comes back


----------



## Yata (Sep 23, 2012)

dont think ill get a 5, thinking about it i dont even gain that much from 3gs since id probably never use Siri or the front camera I cant actually think of anything the 5 would give me that a 3gs doesnt already do that would justify a 2 year contract :S I actually gain more useful things by jailbreaking the 3gs and possibly switching to GiffGaff than I would switching to a contract phone with a few extra 5 minute wonder features and then to be locked into 1 network and the almighty App Store.
It looks so good though... why does the S3 have to be so ugly?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2012)

Yata said:


> dont think ill get a 5, thinking about it i dont even gain that much from 3gs since id probably never use Siri or the front camera I cant actually think of anything the 5 would give me that a 3gs doesnt already do that would justify a 2 year contract :S I actually gain more useful things by jailbreaking the 3gs and possibly switching to GiffGaff than I would switching to a contract phone with a few extra 5 minute wonder features and then to be locked into 1 network and the almighty App Store.
> It looks so good though... why does the S3 have to be so ugly?



You could probably get the iPhone 4 cheaply now on a 12 month contract...


----------



## Wolveryeti (Sep 23, 2012)

> _Kaiser, 34, who describes himself as a new media entrepreneur, was going to get a 64GB model in black. It would cost him £699. "I'm a real Apple fanboy," he said. "Last time they brought out a new phone, I had a man from my office queue for me. But queuing overnight for a new phone *is on my bucket list.* I don't want to offend anyone here, but Apple would be my church. This is my Sunday worship."_


What the fuck does this actually mean?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 23, 2012)

Wolveryeti said:


> What the fuck does this actually mean?


 
Things to do before you kick the bucket.


----------



## Maltin (Sep 23, 2012)

Wolveryeti said:


> What the fuck does this actually mean?


It means that he wanted to queue up overnight for something before he dies. I think the whole article must be made up. Is anyone really called kaiser?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> Yup the only solution now is either to buy in the refined mapping data or back track..
> 
> A I said the iPhone 5 needs to be spectacular or it'll kill apple, and thus far and I'm sure this isn't the end of this apple COO's are interested in trying to maintain the golden goose post Jobs but really have little idea and are pushing updates out (Mbp retina screen nothing else iPad 3 screen nothing else etc etc etc) in an attempt to cash in before the goose dies...
> 
> ...


 
Seem to do ok with updates to the Mac book and so forth.

The iPhone and all other smartphones have really reached some form of zenith, do all the same things, the only really differential is the software and ecosystem and a minor point, what they physically look like. If the original 3G looked like a piece of shit but had the functionality, it'd be a standing joke but I'd still have bought one.

When you buy Apple your buying into the whole thing rather than just the phone, the customer service is excellent. iOS 6 is polished, the map application is comedy. Waiting for Google to release their iOS map application, odd its not out now, had plenty of warning. The existing one was written by Apple if people didn't know.

The new Apple one will be consigned to the bin (or in the Utils folder if I can't delete it....nope I can't) when it does.

Ah, I can put the Google Map web app there instead.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm not seeing iOS 6 as polished as iOS 5, noticing far more glitches even on things like the App Store...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2012)

The Update apps now shows the state of each update, it didn't before.
Do Not disturb is very useful.
Decline with message is also very useful.
Like the new tape on new apps, not a massive thing but nice.
Like the full screen on landscape view.
The menus were becoming a bit unwieldy. Really like that redesign, very easy to use and very nice to look at.

Not noticed any glitches so far.

I would have liked the left right scrolling lists on the App store to be like the bar at the bottom of OSX, would be more obvious to scroll.  Just looks like the page isn't big enough for the display.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2012)

Been messing around with photo stream sharing today with some friends, have to say its a real competitor for Dropbox for those nights out/photos all taken on the iPhone! Very useful.

Only thing I wish it had was sharing over 3G, everyone has unlimited data now so it'd be very helpful to have that...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2012)

Ah I was wrong, the main photo stream is via wifi only but your shared ones are cellular too! Cool.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 23, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm not seeing iOS 6 as polished as iOS 5, noticing far more glitches even on things like the App Store...


I'm not going to upgrade to i0s6 on my ipad yet. Im not hearing much good stuff.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 24, 2012)

chpwn has jailbroken iPhone 5,release will be sooner rather than later.


----------



## magneze (Sep 24, 2012)




----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2012)

So is it going to be Scuffgate or ScratchGate and when will the first idiot start a class action suit for £200m in the US?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 24, 2012)

There are loads of videos floating around of people trying to scratch and otherwise fuck up their iPhone 5's.I particularly like the guy who had the good sense and balls to make the video in an Apple store rather than use his own phone:

http://www.iclarified.com/24670/iphone-5-hammer-and-scratch-tests-video


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Seem to do ok with updates to the Mac book and so forth.
> 
> The iPhone and all other smartphones have really reached some form of zenith, do all the same things, the only really differential is the software and ecosystem and a minor point, what they physically look like. If the original 3G looked like a piece of shit but had the functionality, it'd be a standing joke but I'd still have bought one.
> 
> ...


you seem to think that apple are making a profit with their computers...

all apples profits have come from their ios devices for some time ie if they can't get it right then they'll be sacrificing a lot of profit and indeed be on a downward trajectory... 

IOS6 isn't as polished the app store crashes far more readily than it ever did prior to it, I've had browser crashes, app crashes, and lock ups since updating. 

I'm all for the whole don't bash it just because certain people around here seem to have a manic tendancy to shout kill, kill, kill and start gnashing their teeth and wailing like a banshee on mdma but equally let's not rose tint this, IOS6 might be a good move forward but it's going to need some minor updates and changes to make it polished... like the stability which IO5 had for a start...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

peterkro said:


> There are loads of videos floating around of people trying to scratch and otherwise fuck up their iPhone 5's.I particularly like the guy who had the good sense and balls to make the video in an Apple store rather than use his own phone:
> 
> http://www.iclarified.com/24670/iphone-5-hammer-and-scratch-tests-video


yes last week called and would like it's news back, son...

again as with last week, yes things which are mangled by people with tools of all kids will mark because they are being scored, hammered and attacked... 

as for damaging the store version so what, apple going to go bust by it...


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 24, 2012)

I've had no issues with iOS 6, apart from the map ones. In fact my iPhone seems noticeably faster; web pages load much faster than before. This is on an iPhone 4.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I've had no issues with iOS 6, apart from the map ones. In fact my iPhone seems noticeably faster; web pages load much faster than before. This is on an iPhone 4.


ditto and the maps are imporving, google maps app was shit when it started... but it's significnatly worse than the fully developed google app....

however you can't fault their reasoning for removing it however... 2.3 billion reasons really in terms of licencing fees, then there's the slurping of locaiton absed data which was tracking each user...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

Apparently five million iPhone 5's sold in the first weekend. Ain't that twice the amount of the 4S in the same time frame?


----------



## Firky (Sep 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently five million iPhone 5's sold in the first weekend. Ain't that twice the amount of the 4S in the same time frame?


 
Toying with the idea of getting one this week and a macbook air 

Thing is... I really like Ice-cream


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 24, 2012)

TP's turned up today no sign of mine seemingly there's more white ones than black ones as they were expecting more people to want the white ones this time round... grrrrrrrrr..... where's my fecking iphone...


----------



## peterkro (Sep 24, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes last week called and would like it's news back, son...
> 
> again as with last week, yes things which are mangled by people with tools of all kids will mark because they are being scored, hammered and attacked...
> 
> as for damaging the store version so what, apple going to go bust by it...


Fuck me! I'm beginning to think these threads attract sociopaths both anti and pro Apple.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

Just had a play with one, fucking hell this thing is light! It's freakishly light!


----------



## Firky (Sep 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Just had a play with one, fucking hell this thing is light! It's freakishly light!


 
I have had iphones in the past and broke both of them because they're delicate little things, is the new one even more delicate? I'm still not made up, I quite like hte looks of the S3.

Don't even want a bloody phone but needs must


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently five million iPhone 5's sold in the first weekend. Ain't that twice the amount of the 4S in the same time frame?


In comparison, the iPhone 4S sold 4 million units during its launch weekend last October
Read more at http://www.cultofmac.com/192431/apple-announces-iphone-5-sales-top-five-million-in-first-weekend/#vR635DWPkobXphrF.99


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

firky said:


> I have had iphones in the past and broke both of them because they're delicate little things, is the new one even more delicate? I'm still not made up, I quite like hte looks of the S3.
> 
> Don't even want a bloody phone but needs must



Apparently the iPhone 5 trounces the S3 in the drop test which if true is random, it's insanely light and strong. Bloody clever if Apple has managed to pull that trick off...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> In comparison, the iPhone 4S sold 4 million units during its launch weekend last October
> Read more at http://www.cultofmac.com/192431/apple-announces-iphone-5-sales-top-five-million-in-first-weekend/#vR635DWPkobXphrF.99



Ah I stand corrected, must have misremembered. Cheers for the clarity.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 24, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Just had a play with one, fucking hell this thing is light! It's freakishly light!


Maybe they should've put a strap on it similar to the one on the new iPod Touch.


----------



## Firky (Sep 24, 2012)

Oh it wasn't dropping them that made me break them, one got damp when I was in a tent and the other snapped almost clean in two when I put it in my arse pocket and squatted down to pat a dog. I had splinters in my arse


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

firky said:


> Oh it wasn't dropping them that made me break them, one got damp when I was in a tent and the other snapped almost clean in two when I put it in my arse pocket and squatted down to pat a dog. I had splinters in my arse


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Maybe they should've put a strap on it similar to the one on the new iPod Touch.



Heh good thinking!

One thing that surprised me is the new longer form factor looks far nicer in reality than in photos. In images online it looked stupid, like a bad photoshop image. Holding it, with easy one hand use, it sits just right and looks pretty good. But weight of the thing is deffo it's striking feature...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 24, 2012)

Ordered mine today


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2012)

So along with 5 million units sold 100 million iOS devices upgraded to iOS6. In less than a week. That's a staggering number...interesting that the furore over the maps didn't seem to stop a huge amount of people updating...wonder what Google's traffic to maps is like now, must have taken quite a wack.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)




----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)




----------



## sim667 (Sep 25, 2012)

Whats the best website to sell your phone onto? Like envirofone etc?

Ive worked out if I sell my iphone 4 and my ipad 1 it will very nearly cover the cost of a new ipad...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

gumtree... envirofone etc aren't offering market value or anywhere near...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 25, 2012)

Google are using the maps to competitive advantage for Android and not producing a iOS app. Slightly annoying but not entirely surprising.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/25/google_maps_on_ios6/

I will therefore jail break and put the old one back when this guy or someone gets it working on iOS6.

http://www.cultofmac.com/192412/dev...ing-under-ios-6-with-a-little-trickery-video/


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Google are using the maps to competitive advantage for Android and not producing a iOS app. Slightly annoying but not entirely surprising.


That may not be the entire story but it's worth bearing in mind that it was Apple's decision to foist their own crappy maps app on users, and not Google's.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

editor said:


> That may not be the entire story but it's worth bearing in mind that it was Apple's decision to foist their own crappy maps app on users, and not Google's.


and to stop paying the licence fees.  ultimately...


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> and to stop paying the licence fees. ultimately...


Yes. Despite being unfathomably rich and powerful, they decided to put their own business interests and corporate strategy ahead of the user experience, and that's rather unusual for Apple. And it's bad news for their loyal customers.

Of all the criticisms I may level at Apple, the actual products and the user experience are usually right up there with the very best - if not the best - but this maps app is so bad it's positively farcical.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Sep 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Yes. Despite being unfathomably rich and powerful, they decided to put their own business interests and corporate strategy ahead of the user experience, and that's rather unusual for Apple. And it's bad news for their loyal customers.
> 
> Of all the criticisms I may level at Apple, the actual products and the user experience are usually right up there with the very best - if not the best - but this maps app is so bad it's positively farcical.


something we agree on, it's why i think it's the beginnings of the wane.

I get that it was a lot of money to pay google each year, I get that it was a way of getting google to provide this service for free, I cannot fathom why they'd buy up old tomtom historical data without getting more modern versions so that it was say 6 months out of date not in some cases over 15 years... just maddness...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

Sunray said:


> Google are using the maps to competitive advantage for Android and not producing a iOS app. Slightly annoying but not entirely surprising.
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/25/google_maps_on_ios6/
> 
> ...



Yup Apple have kicked them in the bollox to the tune of a 100 million lost customers, Google withheld turn by turn nav so what goes around comes around it seems...what's more Google map engineers are so bored that some are leaping at the chance to join...Apple!


----------



## pocketscience (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup Apple have kicked them in the bollox to the tune of a 100 million lost customers, Google withheld turn by turn nav so what goes around comes around it seems...what's more Google map engineers are so bored that some are leaping at the chance to join...Apple!


What do they want to do, reinvent the wheel? If they use any of the Google Maps code or functions for Apple Maps, then it's see you in court time... and Google will take Apple to the cleaners on that one.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

I'd love to see the evidence for all these supposedly "bored" Google map engineers. 

If they're bored working on a class-leading mapping app that is constantly evolving and adding innovative features, I fail to see how life will suddenly get so much more exciting for them when they start working on an app that is miles behind and desperately trying to catch up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

pocketscience said:


> What do they want to do, reinvent the wheel? If they use any of the Google Maps code or functions for Apple Maps, then it's see you in court time... and Google will take Apple to the cleaners on that one.



By all accounts they're bored of iteration rather than building something new. A map app that requires the amount of work Apple's needs would be nothing if not a new challenge. On that I think we can agree?


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> By all accounts they're bored of iteration rather than building something new


What "accounts"?


----------



## Yata (Sep 25, 2012)

By all accounts they want more money.. bored? Lol


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

I'd love to see some of these actual "accounts" of all these "bored" Google engineers "leaping" at the chance to work on Apple's half-cocked maps because all I've seen so far is the usual fantasy-generated waffle from fan sites. Anyone got a bona-fide source?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)




----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2012)

Or you could just say, "I'm sorry, I haven't got any sources for those claims, so it may be the usual web nonsense."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

So, the people who have actual experience of iOS6 or an iPhone 5, how are you finding it? Something I really like is the privacy features, nicely sorted now, it's easy to restrict apps access to my other phone functions. Very useful!


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm liking the do not disturb feature, podcast phone app, Siri & the clock on the iPad.

Not too fussed about maps, the only exploring I'm doing for the next few months is between home, work and the gym.


----------



## Maltin (Sep 25, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> podcast phone app


I really like the podcast app. Especially the reel to reel tape player look, which looks better on the iPad. Think the time display on it isn't clear enough though as it can get covered up by the bar.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 25, 2012)

And the duration slider thing is a bit finicky. Also my podcast playlist didn't show in podcast nor the music app.

I'd love to find a way of switching the iPad siri-to-twitter default account setting.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I'm liking the do not disturb feature, podcast phone app, Siri & the clock on the iPad.
> 
> Not too fussed about maps, the only exploring I'm doing for the next few months is between home, work and the gym.


 
Yeah the DND is pretty useful, podcast app is ok (nowhere near as crap looking as made out by some). Heh clock on iPad makes little sense to me but it's nice to have I guess!


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 25, 2012)

Getting siri to set an alarm on the iPad clock is really useful


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Getting siri to set an alarm on the iPad clock is really useful


 
Hmmm but I use my iPhone for alarms...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So, the people who have actual experience of iOS6 or an iPhone 5, how are you finding it? Something I really like is the privacy features, nicely sorted now, it's easy to restrict apps access to my other phone functions. Very useful!


I haven't let on to El Jugs that I've updated to i0s6 and he hasn't even noticed.  It's *that* different.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2012)

pinkmonkey said:


> I haven't let on to El Jugs that I've updated to i0s6 and he hasn't even noticed. It's *that* different.


 
Hehe!


----------



## Structaural (Sep 26, 2012)

Maltin said:


> It means that he wanted to queue up overnight for something before he dies. I think the whole article must be made up. Is anyone really called kaiser?


 
If real can you imagine the rest of his bucket list?.

....
03. Queue overnight for a phone
04. Hire a Volvo and drive to Leicester
05.  Eat 3 big macs all at once
06. Have sex without wearing my socks.
07. Grow a beard


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 26, 2012)

Mildly amusing


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

iPhone owners at work moaning about the battery life on this.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 26, 2012)

Best thing to do with your new iPhone is sell it.... 

Here - http://uk.webuy.com/search/index.php?rad_which_stock=1&stext=iphone+5&section=all

*Example: *
Buy 32GB iPhone5 for £599.00
Sell to CEX for £645 (any network)


----------



## sim667 (Sep 26, 2012)

Just got mine, i was having lunch in the cafe, and they rung up and said 2 weeks for white, or a black one today.....

lucky i had all me documents in the car


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 27, 2012)




----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 27, 2012)

Fake. I have seen that actress before somewhere.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2012)

Ah annoying, they've made Reminders less slick, before you could just swipe to other lists now you bloody have to tap twice to get to them. Backward step IMO....


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ah annoying, they've made Reminders less slick, before you could just swipe to other lists now you bloody have to tap twice to get to them. Backward step IMO....


 
Apparently you can still swipe between them, but you have to swipe in the area where the name of the list is shown.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2012)

Oh yeah you're right but that's blasted fiddly!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2012)

App store reviewers are also raw hammering the new podcasts app, and similar.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to be a reasonably consistent theme. For the first 50 or so reviewers, at least.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2012)

Other than the look what's wrong with it?


----------



## Maltin (Sep 30, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Other than the look what's wrong with it?


What's wrong with the look? The only thing I don't like is the time display, which is less clear than before, especially on the phone version. I think I read that people weren't happy with it being separated from music.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 30, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> App store reviewers are also raw hammering the new podcasts app, and similar.
> 
> "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to be a reasonably consistent theme. For the first 50 or so reviewers, at least.


 
I really like it, its proper old skool looking when it plays.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 30, 2012)

Mildly amusing too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2012)

Maltin said:


> What's wrong with the look? The only thing I don't like is the time display, which is less clear than before, especially on the phone version. I think I read that people weren't happy with it being separated from music.



Lots of hysteria over the look with its animated tape...


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2012)

Maltin said:


> I think I read that people weren't happy with it being separated from music.


Yeah. If it ain't broke, why fix it? Essentially. 

I don't really use podcasts but artichoke is 75% technophobe. She *got* iTunes / music as a coherent interface. Whereas this caused her a moderate degree of irritation & confusion.

What was the problem that a separate podcasts app has fixed? Prettiness aside?


----------



## Maltin (Sep 30, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> What was the problem that a separate podcasts app has fixed? Prettiness aside?


I don't know but I guess the fact that many are free and you can subscribe to them and automatically download them puts them into a different category to music/videos that the music app is for which I guess is used for music people buy online or copy from their computer. I think it's quite useful having a separate application just for my podcasts.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 30, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh yeah you're right but that's blasted fiddly!


 
What? Hardly, if you swipe a reminder it's delete.  Where else could you swipe?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2012)

Sunray said:


> What? Hardly, if you swipe a reminder it's delete. Where else could you swipe?


 
You used to be able to swipe most of the screen to switch quickly between them with little thought. Deleting is a specific action so less fiddly (you're thinking more about the action because it's a destructive act) then a general navigation swipe so not comparable imo.


----------



## silverfish (Oct 1, 2012)

Complete techno biff question. Just got an iphone5 what app do I get to do urban75 from it?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 1, 2012)

silverfish said:


> Complete techno biff question. Just got an iphone5 what app do I get to do urban75 from it?


tapatalk. much nicer than using the website on a touch interface.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> tapatalk. much nicer than using the website on a touch interface.


 
Or Forum Runner (which I prefer but they are both good)


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> tapatalk. much nicer than using the website on a touch interface.


To be honest, I prefer using the website version than either Tapatalk/Forum Runner on my tablet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2012)

silverfish said:


> Complete techno biff question. Just got an iphone5 what app do I get to do urban75 from it?



Tapatalk is the best I've used.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 2, 2012)

Finally I can mark as read my 752 emails (select ALL emails trick):


----------



## RaverDrew (Oct 2, 2012)

doesn't work


----------



## Structaural (Oct 2, 2012)

worked for me (iOS 5?)


----------



## Structaural (Oct 2, 2012)

Apple's map app fiasco has cost them a bit:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterco...30-billion-mistake-can-tim-cook-manage-apple/


----------



## Crispy (Oct 2, 2012)

$30b sounds like a lot, but it's less than 5% of their total value. The maps thing is embarrassing, but it'll take much more than that to do any real damage.

Apple need to take some of that $100b war chest and throw it at an army of thousands to get maps up to scratch. Only way to do it.


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> $30b sounds like a lot, but it's less than 5% of their total value. The maps thing is embarrassing, but it'll take much more than that to do any real damage.


I guess the crunch will be how sales shape up over Christmas. I suspect that some people may be having second thoughts if they rely on maps a lot, but I'm still sure they'll sell iPhones by the cartload.


Crispy said:


> Apple need to take some of that $100b war chest and throw it at an army of thousands to get maps up to scratch. Only way to do it.


They need to do something, but even with all that money, it's still a very lengthy process.

Good point in that article though: 


> Either Cook was not aware of the problems with Apple Maps — in which case he is showing that he does not care about the quality of the products that Apple makes. Or Cook knew about the flaws and decided to launch the iPhone 5 anyway. And if he did the latter, the messaging Cook used to describe the product set expectations that were far better than the reality. And one of the most basic principles of marketing anything is that it is far better to exceed diminished expectations than to fall short of exuberant ones.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 2, 2012)

But wouldn't the Maps issue arisen irrespective of iP5?


----------



## Structaural (Oct 2, 2012)

Yeah it's a iOS6 thing, but you can't put iOS5 on an iPhone 5.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 2, 2012)

There was an article quite some time ago about about voice calls over LTE and the lack of any real standardisation. With the release of the iPhone 5, I was wondering if this had been sorted.

http://www.reghardware.com/2012/10/02/feature_wtf_is_voice_over_lte_4g/

Seems not fully.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> $30b sounds like a lot, but it's less than 5% of their total value. The maps thing is embarrassing, but it'll take much more than that to do any real damage.
> 
> Apple need to take some of that $100b war chest and throw it at an army of thousands to get maps up to scratch. Only way to do it.



It'll have as much affect on their future sales as 'antennaegate'. Apple are one of those few companies that can afford to make withdrawals from the brand bank from time to time without derailing their overall success...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2012)

Sunray said:


> There was an article quite some time about about voice calls over LTE and the lack of any real standardisation. With the release of the iPhone 5, I was wondering if this had been sorted.
> 
> http://www.reghardware.com/2012/10/02/feature_wtf_is_voice_over_lte_4g/
> 
> Seems not fully.



That doesn't look good.


----------



## pocketscience (Oct 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Apple need to take some of that $100b war chest and throw it at an army of thousands to get maps up to scratch. Only way to do it.


 
I've seen a situation like this first-hand at a large well known blue chip company.
They were suffering from a monumental fuck up while developig a new product. At the time it was highly publicised in the press and causing negative impacts on share prices and corporate image. It was a highly complex engineering issue and the management decided that throwing literally thousands of well qualified engineers at the FUBAR it would be solved. The task of managing these outsourced engineers and integrating them into internal processes had been completely underestimated and compounded the problem 10 fold. The company was lumped with having to use these contractors for over 4 years.
It was only after the management was replaced and a second wave of recovery planning was implemented, that the overheads were reduced to something acceptable for the products business case. Today, 7 years later there are still ad-hoc workarounds used that were put in place back then and they're costing a fortune and the moral in the company has reached new lows. I think they've just come to terms that the product will not see a return on investment and it's turned into a face saving exercise.
Obviously the cash incurred would't put a dent in Apples reserves, but the issues of inter department in-fighting, blame culture, employee moral and image damage are the longer lasting problems.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Oct 2, 2012)

Hitler's iOS6


----------



## paolo (Oct 2, 2012)

Crispy said:


> $30b sounds like a lot, but it's less than 5% of their total value. The maps thing is embarrassing, but it'll take much more than that to do any real damage.
> 
> Apple need to take some of that $100b war chest and throw it at an army of thousands to get maps up to scratch. Only way to do it.



I think the first question they need to ask themselves is should they treat maps as core business?

They don't, for example, treat mail service provision like that (and nor should they). Instead they let other people lead in that, and integrate really well.

The case for treating maps as strategic is more compelling, but at the same time their current  'externalising' of their GIS platform (and therefore revenue from it) is limited to mobile, and only one of the two dominant operating systems.

Google on the other hand has GIS platform exposure in web and other behind the scenes APIs. Basically, for every dollar invested, Google has better ROI on GIS because of multiple interface points.

I think Apple need to think long and hard about playing catch up. The challenge is more than just licensing / building the base data.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2012)

They should, it's a no brainier that mapping is huge deal.


----------



## pocketscience (Oct 2, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They should, it's a no brainier that mapping is huge deal.


I think you missing Paolos point:


> They don't, for example, treat mail service provision like that (and nor should they). Instead they let other people lead in that, and integrate really well.


And here's the rub... going up against the market leader in the flamboyant way apple has, means it's a double whammy. They're incurring massive costs & pushing punters to the very competition they said they don't need.
The interesting thing is that in the past under Jobs, Apple has been quite rational in shelving naff products. It'll be interesting how they grapple with this one.
The suggestion made by Crispy about throwing thousands of (payed) workers at the problem seems to go against the statement Apple made that "the more people that use Apple Maps, the better it'll become". This tends to suggest that Apple are planning to use some kind of crowd sourcing from it's users... They're certainly not shy about the fact that they like to maximise their profits. Are Apple users prepared to invest their own time (for free or payed?) in developing tools???? I wouldn't doubt it.


----------



## TitanSound (Oct 3, 2012)

Sorry if I'm late to the party in my facepalm on this subject but.....

Gf's friend in Turkey wants two new iPhones. She went to the apple store at Westfield and they put her in a "lottery". When new stock comes in, she may or may not get a notification to go and collect it in a one hour window and if she misses it she has to do it all over again.

WTF MATE?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2012)

There's serious supply issue relating to Sharp not being able to make the 4inch glass screens in high enough numbers. Should open up again in the next few weeks going by recent news...


----------



## TitanSound (Oct 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> There's serious supply issue relating to Sharp not being able to make the 4inch glass screens in high enough numbers. Should open up again in the next few weeks going by recent news...


 
But a fucking _lottery_ because of a supply chain problem? Then charging £600 for the privilege? It's madness!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> But a fucking _lottery_ because of a supply chain problem? Then charging £600 for the privilege? It's madness!



Yup it's that sought after they can get away with it.


----------



## TitanSound (Oct 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup it's that sought after they can get away with it.


 
Some people need to have a serious word with themselves


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> Some people need to have a serious word with themselves



Heh yeah well can you imagine if they just put signs up saying 'iPhone 5 in stock!' when they had them? There'd be riots!


----------



## editor (Oct 3, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> Some people need to have a serious word with themselves


Indeed.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2012)

Looks like you'll be in for a wait for Lightning accessories as Apple's control-freakery is in full force:


> After hearing that Apple’s Lightning cables have authentication chips on the inside, we’re now told that Apple will require that all factories wanting to manufacturer Lightning accessories must be approved by Apple first. The company is said to have made changes to its policies that now tighten the control over Lightning cables and accessories even more.
> 
> However, it’s reported that Apple hasn’t approved any third-party manufacturers yet, but the company is planning a special seminar to take place in China sometime within the next few weeks where interested manufacturers will be required to attend if they want to begin producing and selling Lightning accessories.
> 
> ...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Looks like you'll be in for a wait for Lightning accessories as Apple's control-freakery is in full force:


you can of course back this up with a list of substantiated and submitted products apple have received which are awaiting the approval that the 'control  freakery ' has prevented being released in full force... yes?

Batman??


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you can of course back this up with a list of substantiated and submitted products apple have received which are awaiting the approval that the 'control freakery ' has prevented being released in full force... yes?


Can you buy any third party cables now, YES/NO?

PS: _"Looks like..."_


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Can you buy any third party cables now, YES/NO?
> 
> PS: _"Looks like..."_


wrong answer.

My question was as is very clear can YOU list the items which have been submitted to apple which are currently awaiting approval...

none of the 'this stone protects your from tigers; see any tigers then the stones working' bullshit...

you've made the claim that apples control freakrey has prevent products from coming out so I'm asking you to name those products it's prevented....

or are you saying the only product you can name at this point in time is generic third party cables... that's your entire list....

1 item....


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> wrong answer.


So no cables available then. Why is that, do you think?
Could you hazard a guess (and preferably leave out the tigers).


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2012)

editor said:


> So no cables available then. Why is that, do you think?
> Could you hazard a guess (and preferably leave out the tigers).


sorry in what world is this an answer to the question you've been asked?

do you think you've got some kind of Jobsian distortion field around you where when someone questions some bollocks you've jsut said you can deflect all possible answers with some pointless wriggling....

the question still unanswered is can you provide a list of items which have been prevented from coming out due to Apples control freakery....

you made the claim this is what had happened so list the products which have been prevented from coming out... 

it's a simple list not a herculian task of redefining the parameters of the universe.

so cease being dishonest in what you've been challenged on and provide a list of items or don't but then have your claim rubbished as uninformed tosh... 

which is it... 

list or talking bollocks... you're call...


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2012)

Fucking 3 have dropped their traiff to 36 a month for the same as I'm paying 42 a month for.

Ive only had the phone 8 days. D'yall reckon I should ring up and have a whinge and see if theyll drop the price?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Fucking 3 have dropped their traiff to 36 a month for the same as I'm paying 42 a month for.
> 
> Ive only had the phone 8 days. D'yall reckon I should ring up and have a whinge and see if theyll drop the price?


I would ...


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2012)

I havent really got anything to hold them ransom with though, im out of my 7 day cooling off period


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 4, 2012)

If I was 3 I'd certainly do something like...grab the early adapters who'll pay more to get it right now.

Can't hurt to ring them mind.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2012)

Ill give it a bash when I get home.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 4, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Ill give it a bash when I get home.


 
Wash your hands after then give 3 a call...


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Fucking 3 have dropped their traiff to 36 a month for the same as I'm paying 42 a month for.
> 
> Ive only had the phone 8 days. D'yall reckon I should ring up and have a whinge and see if theyll drop the price?


Make up an arbitrary but erratic random fault and insist that you want a refund.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Make up an arbitrary but erratic random fault and insist that you want a refund.


 
eh?

Im not gonna demand a refund, i just think its unfair they're going to be charging me an extra £144 for the same service.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2012)

sim667 said:


> eh?
> 
> Im not gonna demand a refund, i just think its unfair they're going to be charging me an extra £144 for the same service.


Good luck trying to get your tariff reduced then.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I havent really got anything to hold them ransom with though, im out of my 7 day cooling off period


7 days from your recepit of the item not their agreeing it or sending it...


firstly...

secondly, and more importantly, having summit to hold over them is immaterial to getting satisfaction (O2's recent cock up on the ordering of the ihpone5's for tp and I meant we get free bolt on 3 gig data a month additional for the contract length (worth £^ quid each a month...).

Here's how to use the Garfield patented get what you want on the phone to customer services (Whilst I might be an arrgo arse on here you have to admit when dealing with a call centre these types of stick in the mud, argumentative arse does yield fantastic results in terms of getting what the eff you want from these corporates; indeed I have form for it... ask around).

phone em , ask to speak to customer services explain you're unhappy with the process of upgrade and that due to the sudden decrease in charges that you're considering leaving them.  (you're not going to do it it's a threat) they'll then put on their oh noes sorry what can we do.

Explain you are unhappy with the misrepresentation of the sale when you upgraded and that you asked to be placed on the best tariff.... 

even if this tariff wasn't available then ask why they think it's reasonable to drop  their prices after just having a massive sales push to trick people into signing at the higher rate....

what you're trying to do at this point is make them unstable, feel uncertain that they are going be able to say here have a dougnut now fuck off next caller... make em realise they are going to be stuck dealing with you as a difficult but not arsey customer....

again here use phrases like I know it's not your fault but this is the x amount of time I've asked about this and still no one in the company is taking responsibility or ownership for the problem, make it sound like this is the first time anyone from the company has treated you like a human being and not a number...  

state what you want as a resolution early on, in this regard it's a little like haggling for goods... your early bid will be what you're prepared to pay don't move from that point on wards they may offer you more than you've asked for don't take it you want what you want, you're in control of the conversation not them...  

be beligerant, repeat your demands without changing them, ask why no one within the company has taken ownership, ask why did they allow this to happen and what do they think Ofcom, Trading standards etc would say about this tricking people into signing at the higher rate....

bear in mind these are credit agreements for loans in effect you are agreeing to repayment terms these can be altered at any time within the contract for no more than a standard fee... like all terms of credit agreement.... so it's up to you to just battle it through...

basically treat it like you're arguing me on the boards and it'll be a doddle, don't shout, don't swear, don't get sarcy just keep repeating your demands over and over again and eventually you'll get it...

usually takes no more than 30 mins to 'win'...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Fucking 3 have dropped their traiff to 36 a month for the same as I'm paying 42 a month for.
> 
> Ive only had the phone 8 days. D'yall reckon I should ring up and have a whinge and see if theyll drop the price?



Definitely point out that fact that you have 6 days left to return the phone under consumer law too.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Definitely point out that fact that you have 6 days left to return the phone under consumer law too.


 
Do i? It says seven as a cooling off period on their contract as long as the phone is unused.

I rang up, they told me to go to the shop..... apparently the shops have different tarriffs to online, and this new tariff is online only.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 4, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Do i? It says seven as a cooling off period on their contract as long as the phone is unused.
> 
> I rang up, they told me to go to the shop..... apparently the shops have different tarriffs to online, and this new tariff is online only.


from the day you received the phone not the day you agreed the contract...


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 4, 2012)

Apparently a parcel arrived at my parents' house about 2wks ago. Day after launch, in fact.

I'm guessing there's an inordinately slim chance it's the iPhone, though - tbf - t-mobile said at the time that it'd be early Oct. They also said they'd text me 2hrs (or so) before delivery. No texts yet!

Parents aren't expecting anything similar, though.

Will find out tomorrow!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2012)

So...iPhone 5?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2012)

I held one the other day. Very nice hardware.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I held one the other day. Very nice hardware.


 
It's the weight that really got me, everything is nice but kinda predictable to what you'd expect. The damn thing is so light!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 5, 2012)

I've got my 2... both are very nice bits of tech, much faster than before (4 to 5 jump bugger s releases seriously...) nicely made, I think the screens jolly nice seems Garfield proof in terms of scratches so far with my big spade like hands, ability to drop something in zero gravity... phones louder speakers louder less distory or drop outy... all good things...

other than that it's an iphone all be it prettier than before...

oh and it's very light... very very light I often find I'm checking my pockets cos it feels like it's not in there... tp seems happy enough with her's


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 5, 2012)

Posting from my iPhone HELL YEAH.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 5, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Posting from my iPhone HELL YEAH.


uh huh...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Posting from my iPhone HELL YEAH.


 
How you finding it?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 5, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How you finding it?


fine so long as he didn't try and navigate to his parents via apple maps lulz....


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 5, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How you finding it?


Incredibly light and quick. Haven't really had a chance to tinker yet, but'm DLing a couple of apps that brutalised my iPod 4 to see how they run. Finding it surprisingly text-friendly, too. I don't know why I'd got it into my head that mobile touch kbs were a pita, but this - so far - is feeling v quick and easy. 

Got to wait for the nano sim to register (grr) but tremendously impressed / happy so far.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 5, 2012)

22 apps currently DLing


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 5, 2012)

Giving my mum another set of tutorials on all the things she's forgotten she can do since last time


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 5, 2012)

Oh, this is awesome. The only business listed for some distance is my dad's. And he retired earlier this year!

E2a: that's "awesome," as in "first rate maps upfuck" 

E2a2: I'll add: my dad was a small, one-man, independent academic publisher. There are THREE PRIVATE SCHOOLS, each of which have 2-900ish students, which appear as large & unmarked city blocks. Quite apart from any other small businesses / people working from home there are in the area!


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 6, 2012)

Tried using Siri to access turn by turn navigation about 15miles from home. Less than ideal! Took me a sensible route but, e.g., after turning off the m11 it only said "drive 2.8 miles then turn right onto lensfield road." Which is fine. But it kinda skipped 2 moderately complex junctions & 4 sets of lights. And a roundabout. Bit more comprehensive would've been nice!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2012)

Tried the sat nav a few times, it hit about 90 % accuracy so far.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 6, 2012)

I find it passably shit that I can't put my home screen into landscape. Though I can understand the reasoning (it'd look absurdly proportioned one way or the other).


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

AND it's bent. Fuck fucking Paris, with added fucks. Jostled into a fucking bollard, which caught me a first rate smasher to my left thigh. The *only* thing in my left trouser pocket was my iPhone, being the only thing in there bc I was fucking determined that nothing's going to scratch it, front or back. 

The frame was dinked in the back / middle, and the metal side has broken / split over the volume up button. Screen discolouration is hovering just above the dink in the rear, I guess from pressure being exerted through the innards by the dinked case. 

First fucking piece of tech I've broken in fucking years, and of all the fucking things & times, it's this, after three fucking years waiting for a phone upgrade, and four fucking days of ownership. I wasn't up for Paris in the first place, but I'm grade-a fuming about this. 

Going to explore options over the next day or three. But, seriously, grade-a fuck Paris. Fucking cunt of a city.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

Oh, and I'm fucked for walking, too. Fucking cunt-arsed wank of a fucking city. And six fucking quid for the worst fucking coffee of my adult life. JESUS FUCKING CUNT. Aaaaaa.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 8, 2012)

Glad you enjoyed your trip dude.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 8, 2012)

^^ Try taking it into Apple store and act useless,I know people who they've waived the fee for.Otherwise claim on any insurance you might have.Last option pay I think £175 or 85 for replacement.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Glad you enjoyed your trip dude.


I honestly just want to get the fuck home. I'm pulling out of kings x ATM, the cat's been locked in for two days, and I have a horrible feeling that the world's most awesome weekend will end with me finding cat piss sprayed up every fucking wall.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

peterkro said:


> ^^ Try taking it into Apple store and act useless,I know people who they've waived the fee for.Otherwise claim on any insurance you might have.Last option pay I think £175 or 85 for replacement.


I'm booked in for 2pm tomorrow, but have concerns that its accidental damage. I will, of course, be outstandingly friendly & polite. I'd be 400% happy with a £175 replacement but am massively unconvinced that's gonna happen.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 8, 2012)

No they will replace it for that price and probably for a brand new returned one as they won't have any refurbed yet.It's probably as well to tell you the two people I know who they waived the fee for were quite attractive women.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

peterkro said:


> No they will replace it for that price and probably for a brand new returned one as they won't have any refurbed yet.It's probably as well to tell you the two people I know who they waived the fee for were quite attractive women.


That would beyond overjoy me. But, again, I won't be optimistic until it happens. 

At the risk of going against tradition, what I'd really like are no permanent reminders of this w/e. Well. Maybe reminders of a couple of half hours. But Jesus bleeehhhhhh.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> AND it's bent. Fuck fucking Paris, with added fucks. Jostled into a fucking bollard, which caught me a first rate smasher to my left thigh. The *only* thing in my left trouser pocket was my iPhone, being the only thing in there bc I was fucking determined that nothing's going to scratch it, front or back.


Ouch! Sorry to hear that.

You must have given it one hell of a jolt to physically _bend_ the thing. I'm amazed the screen didn't smash by the sound of it.


----------



## tarannau (Oct 8, 2012)

Bad times Mr Q. You have my sympathies, particularly as the only phone I've ever smashed was in a similar pocket based pratfall, me walking into the corner of a gate. Albeit my collision was fairly innocuous (and on a Sony Ericsson), just splintering the screen rather than the full on thump you seem to have experienced. That was some 'jostle' on your part

Fingers crossed they're good to you in the Apple Store. Friends have had some remarkable experiences in there - free new replacements for smashed iPhone 4s for example - but I believe they've tightened up considerably, even to Apple Care owning types.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

editor said:


> Ouch! Sorry to hear that.
> 
> You must have given it one hell of a jolt to physically _bend_ the thing. I'm amazed the screen didn't smash by the sound of it.


95kg bloke walking full-tilt into a sharp, circular rim of a bollard. 

I could bend it back a bit from the original fuckup, but only so far. It's still kinked (and indented) and it looks almost as if the rear end of the volume button has left a bump on the casing where it couldn't be forced in. 

Tbh, having watched a couple of gorilla glass videos, I'm not sure it wouldn't've absorbed the blow better than the aluminium backing (bending rather than creasing). Then again, maybe not.


----------



## tarannau (Oct 8, 2012)

Paris? I'd like to see that collision in the form of mime.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> I could bend it back a bit from the original fuckup, but only so far. It's still kinked (and indented) and it looks almost as if the rear end of the volume button has left a bump on the casing where it couldn't be forced in.


Just a thought, but if all else fails, might it be worth trying to pursue an admittedly less-than-convincing line of "it bent too easily - there must have been a manufacturing defect"?


----------



## tarannau (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm not convinced that I could pull that one off with a straight face. Would you just fix them in the eyes with an an outraged stare and come out with' out something like 'In all my years of walking into bollards, I've never experienced a phone that bent so easily?" 

Better to be honest and plead ignorance, or well just plead.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

editor said:


> Just a thought, but if all else fails, might it be worth trying to pursue an admittedly less-than-convincing line of "it bent too easily - there must have been a manufacturing defect"?


If all else fails, I'll eBay the fucked one and replace it, and then do my damnedest to obliterate all memory of there ever being a first phone in existence. 

I'm holding Paris responsible with too much genuine vehemence to make a serious stab at pretending it's the manufacturing. 

But I appreciate the thought.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

tarannau said:


> I'm not convinced that I could pull that one off with a straight face. Would you just fix them in the eyes with an an outraged stare and come out with' out something like 'In all my years of walking into bollards, I've never experienced a phone that bent so easily?"


You clearly don't tell them you've walked into a bollard. You just say that it got a slight tap and buckled.

Such things can work sometimes, you know.


----------



## tarannau (Oct 8, 2012)

'Yeah, I was just trying to select something on screen and it just buckled under me.'

I think I'd need a cape to pull that one off, but I'll bear it in mind. Good luck with the appointment anyhow Mr Q


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

editor said:


> You clearly don't tell them you've walked into a bollard. You just say that it got a slight tap and buckled.
> 
> Such things can work sometimes, you know.


Having personally tried to buckle it back, I'm not sure how well that'd work 

Tbh, I've had it long enough to genuinely believe its worth the money. This was, whether I like it or not, my responsibility / accident. 

I'll do as I've done before, & be honest & hope. Worst case scenario, including ebaying this one & stock problems (?) = £2-300 outlay and a 2-3 week wait. 

Which is a complete pain in the arse, but tbf that's the risk I took in not getting insurance. 

Having said that, I was in the store last sat, asking if they sold cases for iPhone 5s. Not sure even an otterbox would've stopped this, but can't see any harm in mentioning it.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

tarannau said:


> 'Yeah, I was just trying to select something on screen and it just buckled under me.'


Ah, I see you're stuck in Belittle Mode. I'll leave you to it then. Well done. Nice work.


----------



## tarannau (Oct 8, 2012)

I'd like to think my posts were fairly amiable and flippant throughout. Jeepers, I was more worried about poor old Mrs Q taking offence over the mime gag, but congrats on the attempted sympathy steal. No offence was meant.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

WELL. Phone is backed up. Appointment at 2pm tomorrow.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 8, 2012)

can we have a cat piss update please?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2012)

tarannau said:


> I'd like to think my posts were fairly amiable and flippant throughout. Jeepers, I was more worried about poor old Mrs Q taking offence over the mime gag, but congrats on the attempted sympathy steal. No offence was meant.



They were, his paranoid reactions were uncalled for.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2012)

sim667 said:


> can we have a cat piss update please?



This!


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

sim667 said:


> can we have a cat piss update please?


None! 

Desperately needy cat, tho!


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

Thousand yard stare


----------



## sim667 (Oct 8, 2012)

thats basically what shes been doing all weekend, thinking its apple maps trying to show her a route to the food


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 8, 2012)

sim667 said:


> thats basically what shes been doing all weekend, thinking its apple maps trying to show her a route to the food


I didn't post this earlier, bc I was on my phone / pad and couldn't be arsed for the lack of a hardware keyboard.

HOWEVER.

When I got back, she was piteously hungry.

She's got a double food bowl. Two dips, next to one another, set into stainless steel.

Usually, we only fill the first one.

This time, I filled both. Given I was away for about 36hrs.

She seems to've eaten all the (dry) food out of her 'normal' dip, and then stopped dead. The second 'bowlful' was completely untouched, and our Nigel was clearly starving. She tucked in the minute I refilled it.

Either she stopped out of grief and loneliness, or she's too damned stupid to realise that she can eat food out of the other bowl, too.

atm, I'm going for option 1


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

At least the pussy is happy. 

'Tis a purdy moggy too.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They were, his paranoid reactions were uncalled for.


Stop this now please. Thanks.


----------



## twentythreedom (Oct 8, 2012)

Here is my late cat Fig, with a busted leg. Just to get the thread back on track, like.



And this is Ickle. Also recently deceased


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2012)

Heh even an iPhone thread can't escape the cat dominance of the Internet.


----------



## pesh (Oct 9, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Thousand yard stare


why does it have 2 faces?


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 9, 2012)

£180 replacement.

Clearly should've worn my 'prettier' dress.

Also backed up the iPhone on my MacBook before leaving, forgetting that it wasn't set to sync any apps 

So the backup's decent, insofar as it's retrieved my messages and contacts. But all my progress on Swordigo'll be gone


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 9, 2012)

Here's the dink, btw.

Found it really hard to get a good shot of the bend itself. But this shows the indentations left by the arse end of the volume controls:





On its back, you can pretty much see the bend in the phone from the side  This was after I'd bent it back as far as it'd go, obv.





Right way up... bend less visible...





Where the siding has broken, just above the volume control:





AND screen discolouration. Took me a while to work out what this was caused by, but then I realised that the screen discolouration is pretty much directly above the main dinkdentation. So I reckon it's pressure on the screen, from behind. Not massive, but you can see it as an off-white splotch (or a whiter splotch) just underneath the 'search or address bar,' just to the left of the centre line.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> £180 replacement.


Ouch!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Here's the dink, btw.
> 
> Found it really hard to get a good shot of the bend itself. But this shows the indentations left by the arse end of the volume controls:
> 
> ...


 
Have to say it doesn't look as bad as I thought it would...


----------



## peterkro (Oct 9, 2012)

Nor me.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Ah, I see you're stuck in Belittle Mode. I'll leave you to it then. Well done. Nice work.


was there any need what so every for this off topic personal attack...

maybe it's not me per-say you have a problem understanding but anyone who uses, well english...


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Ouch!


I'm clearly not pretty enough!

And, tbf, do other manufacturers offer anything similar wrt accidental damage?

You're right - it didn't look awful. Particularly in a case. Though I did massively fail to get a shot that showed the bend in the middle of the back (needed to show the shadow, and I was running out the door when I thought of it.)

I had concerns that any structural integrity had been buggered, so it'd be more likely to take water damage, for example*. I wasn't comfortable with the screen being constantly pressed from behind (or the innards being squeezed). And I was *really* uncomfortable about the broken aluminium on the side.

And, tbf, I just didn't want a new, bent iPhone 




*should probably clarify that before I bent it back, I could see the innards of the phone through the gap between the glass / cracked aluminium side.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 9, 2012)

I just can't help but associate the white iphone with Peter Andre.

Although one of your pics did remind me I need more bouillon.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> was there any need what so every for this off topic personal attack...
> 
> maybe it's not me per-say you have a problem understanding but anyone who uses, well english...


Truly priceless. Thanks for that, Garf.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> was there any need what so every for this off topic personal attack...
> 
> maybe it's not me per-say you have a problem understanding but anyone who uses, well english...


 
Indeed, point that out as fact and suddenly you get more shitty attitude.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I just can't help but associate the white iphone with Peter Andre.
> 
> Although one of your pics did remind me I need more bouillon.


 
Never really seen the appeal of the white iPhone tbh, they always looked cheaper/more plasticy to my eyes...


----------



## Winot (Oct 9, 2012)

Very impressed with the iPhone 5 compared to the 4. Much faster and lighter too. The dictation is also quite impressive.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Truly priceless. Thanks for that, Garf.


anything for you batman...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Never really seen the appeal of the white iPhone tbh, they always looked cheaper/more plasticy to my eyes...


all technology should be black and rectangular... it's like the law...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> all technology should be black and rectangular... it's like the law...


 
Heh don't you mean 'Duh Louwww' </Stallone drawl>


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

Winot said:


> Very impressed with the iPhone 5 compared to the 4. Much faster and lighter too. The dictation is also quite impressive.


 
The weight is very impressive, had another play on the weekend and tbh didn't really feel that much more snappy than my 4S, apps opened a bit faster but it wasn't as lightening quick as I expected.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh don't you mean 'Duh Louwww' </Stallone drawl>


he ever got to say those lines... it's being wiped from our collective history... besides they're remaking it now thank fuck...


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Never really seen the appeal of the white iPhone tbh, they always looked cheaper/more plasticy to my eyes...


Everything I've previously had has been black.

Then I got Artichoke a white iPad / lime case for her bday, and tbh it looked great.

So I thought I'd break the mould and go for something white this time. I would've probably agreed with you a year or two ago. But now, I quite like it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Everything I've previously had has been black.
> 
> Then I got Artichoke a white iPad / lime case for her bday, and tbh it looked great.
> 
> So I thought I'd break the mould and go for something white this time. I would've probably agreed with you a year or two ago. But now, I quite like it.


 
Fair enough, horses for courses and all that...truth be told the new white iPhone 5 is the best looking white iPhone so far but black always looks better imo.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 9, 2012)

people that get white iphones are racist...


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Fair enough, horses for courses and all that...truth be told the new white iPhone 5 is the best looking white iPhone so far but black always looks better imo.


Used to think that. Now, for me, they look a bit dull / homogenous. I've got through two black iPods and a black iPad. I don't really feel a pressing need to complete the set


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> people that get white iphones are racist...


 
Ah yeah man totally.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Used to think that. Now, for me, they look a bit dull / homogenous. I've got through two black iPods and a black iPad. I don't really feel a pressing need to complete the set


 
Heh weirdly I never liked the black iPods, and always thought the white looked better...


----------



## twistedAM (Oct 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> people that get white iphones are racist...


 
Naw, they're probably those people who buy black fridges and washing machines.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 9, 2012)

Lightening cables authentication cracked,cheapo cables on the way.


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Here's the dink, btw.
> 
> Found it really hard to get a good shot of the bend itself. But this shows the indentations left by the arse end of the volume controls:


 
Mind you, it could have been worse:







 


http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/10/ho...ook-pro-end-up-like-a-crumpled-page-of-paper/


----------



## Crispy (Oct 10, 2012)

Bloody hell!
That's kind of pretty


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Mind you, it could have been worse:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Christ! Reminds me of the Ferrari that was made into a coffee table!


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 10, 2012)

Over the last couple of days, I've been discovering HDR / high dynamic range shots on my iPhone. It's not a brand new feature - definitely existed on the 4s (I've just iMessaged my mum about it, given how proud she is of the camera )

I'm srsly considering a separate thread (urban has 3 on HDR, the most recent is 2009, and all of them - Afaict - are about post processing from 3 bracketed shots, using external software, rather than a per-packaged / automatic option). But may get a couple of better pics first 

Ohhhhh, should probably explain, it involves the camera Taking three separate shots one on alone exposure one on a standard exposure and one on a high exposure and then Blending the most Detailed or balanced elements from each shot into a single picture. So it can pick up (say) both sky and ground in detail in a sunset shot Rather than bleaching out the sky or making the land of black lump.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 10, 2012)

Two very lazy examples (one HDR shot, one normal):





















No prizes for the pics, but the difference on detail in the clouds and wall (first pic) and Nigel's face and the garden (second pic) has left me seriously curious, and more than a tiny bit impressed.


E2a: by default, it saves both pics. Hence the easy comparison.


----------



## belboid (Oct 10, 2012)

The HDR has been on since 4.  I use mine a lot for night or cloudy pics.  It is - usually - bloody good, tho occasnaly it leaves really bizarre 'shadows,' on clouds particularly. And the amount of time it takes to save each pic is a bit annoying. Still, damned handy.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 11, 2012)

I think it's almost instant on the 5 but really slow on the 4.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 11, 2012)

Is anyone else getting this bullshit security stuff?
Where you can't download an app unless you set up a load of teenage security questions like 'what's your favourite colour', 'who's your favourite boy band member?'
Fuck this shit. Even worse it's in Dutch for me.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 11, 2012)

Ooo. Not yet. 

Given it's a Thursday, I'd expect to find out in about 5hrs. 

And, yeah, HDR processing is probably a quarter of a second on the 5? Less?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 11, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Is anyone else getting this bullshit security stuff?
> Where you can't download an app unless you set up a load of teenage security questions like 'what's your favourite colour', 'who's your favourite boy band member?'
> Fuck this shit. Even worse it's in Dutch for me.


 
yeah that's been there for a while and most people hate it and have complained about it...

not to mention that the security questions are so insecure that they render the entire thing useless....


----------



## Structaural (Oct 11, 2012)

I miss Jobs.


----------



## elbows (Oct 11, 2012)

Its there for a reason, and it shouldnt bother you perpetually.

My dads itunes account got hacked and they spend a lot of voucher credit he had in the account, so I cant complain too much about increased security measures.


----------



## Cid (Oct 11, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Two very lazy examples (one HDR shot, one normal):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
HDR Nigel is being stalked by a ghost cat though...  

Shows the limitations really, not good for stuff that moves fast. Or people with shaky hands.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Mind you, it could have been worse:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
John Chamberlain's laptop.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> Its there for a reason, and it shouldnt bother you perpetually.
> 
> My dads itunes account got hacked and they spend a lot of voucher credit he had in the account, so I cant complain too much about increased security measures.


 
It's the inanity of the questions that are annoying. It's done anyway (with the help of a colleague who now knows all my secret questions


----------



## sim667 (Oct 11, 2012)

Cid said:


> HDR Nigel is being stalked by a ghost cat though...
> 
> Shows the limitations really, not good for stuff that moves fast. Or people with shaky hands.



This will be the same with all cameras that shoot hdr, they can't capture a 10+ stop range in one, a 6 stop range is normal, so try have to shoot a number of images to cover the stop ranges


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2012)

I apologised a few days ago for sometimes getting a bit shirty on the Apple threads, explaining that because part of my job is to spend all day looking through news feeds, the preponderance of dire fawning fanboy articles, made up rumours and non-stories presented as 'news' sometimes drives me up the wall.

Case in point is Macworld. They've just posted up this article, complete with five photos:

*Phone 5 accessory unboxing: Lightning to 30-pin adaptor and Lightning to USB cable *
We have taken delivery of the first iPhone 5 accessories to ship in the UK, here's what you'll get i the box

The "unboxing". Of a fucking cable. Jeez.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 11, 2012)

Unboxing is the weirdest type of documenting of any new tech. Endless videos on youtube of goofnuggets filming themselves doing the excruciatingly dull procedure of taking something out of its cardboard box. Sometimes taking a whole 2-3 minutes in the process. A cable though, fuck me.


----------



## tarannau (Oct 11, 2012)

Not just tech, but also trainers, right down to cooing over alternative laces in unremarkable plastic bags.


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2012)

I can almost understand the unboxing mindset when it comes to an eagerly awaited high end product. 
But a box containing a cable? 

Truly ridiculous.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2012)

tarannau said:


> Not just tech, but also trainers, right down to cooing over alternative laces in unremarkable plastic bags.



I'm about as bothered by this stuff as I am by folks that camp over night for early queue positions for product launches tbh...


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 12, 2012)

Flash on the camera is going out of sync, leading to dark shots (after a mis-timed / pre-emptive flash). Reset works, but a google suggests this is a widespread problem, likely to return a day of two after resetting...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2012)

Something I've noticed is the notification bar is lagging, I get the buzz or sound of a message etc and then it's a second or so later that a notification pops up. Used to happen at the same time before...


----------



## sim667 (Oct 12, 2012)

editor said:


> I apologised a few days ago for sometimes getting a bit shirty on the Apple threads, explaining that because part of my job is to spend all day looking through news feeds, the preponderance of dire fawning fanboy articles, made up rumours and non-stories presented as 'news' sometimes drives me up the wall.
> 
> Case in point is Macworld. They've just posted up this article, complete with five photos:
> 
> ...


 
You should totally go on the macrumors forums to see how long before you're on the verge of a breakdown


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 12, 2012)

There has been a delay on issuing this cable, so it's eventual arrival would be a news story - knowing what's being delivered with it might be of equal interest.

But, generally, all unboxing vids are arse.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> There has been a delay on issuing this cable, so it's eventual arrival would be a news story - knowing what's being delivered with it might be of equal interest.


"The box contains the cable and a little leaflet." There, done.


----------



## pesh (Oct 12, 2012)

you're obsessing  

lots of tech people get overexcited about rubbish.

http://www.wirefresh.com/wacom-laun...et-for-scribbling-on-smartphones-and-tablets/

it's a bit of rubber on a stick.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> you're obsessing
> 
> lots of tech people get overexcited about rubbish.
> 
> ...


I missed a trick there. I could have written a separate illustrated article about the excitement of opening the box.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> you're obsessing
> 
> lots of tech people get overexcited about rubbish.
> 
> ...



Pfft that doesn't even have an unboxing video.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 12, 2012)

editor said:


> "The box contains the cable and a little leaflet." There, done.


  
Maybe it's a case of seeing is believing - needing to see the box upended and shaken - an incredulous 'is that all I get for £25?' kind of thing.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 12, 2012)

Upgrade time and orange are offering me the iphone5 for waaay less than the android equivalents (all 4g).

iPhone 5 = free
Samsung S III LTE = £199
HTC One XML = £199
Huawei Ascend P1 LTE = £39


----------



## Structaural (Oct 12, 2012)

I bought 10GB of RAM yesterday, the guy delivering it just put each stick through the letterbox in their grey plastic bags. No unboxing for me .


----------



## Structaural (Oct 12, 2012)

Can someone recommend me a Twitter client (I don't tweet, only read)? TweetDeck is pissing me off.


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Upgrade time and orange are offering me the iphone5 for waaay less than the android equivalents (all 4g).
> 
> iPhone 5 = free
> Samsung S III LTE = £199
> ...


I'd look elsewhere for a deal  if I were you!


----------



## peterkro (Oct 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Upgrade time and orange are offering me the iphone5 for waaay less than the android equivalents (all 4g).
> 
> iPhone 5 = free
> Samsung S III LTE = £199
> ...


This what our North American friends would describe as a "no-brainer".


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Upgrade time and orange are offering me the iphone5 for waaay less than the android equivalents (all 4g).
> 
> iPhone 5 = free
> Samsung S III LTE = £199
> ...



How's that even possible?? What are the storage size of all of them?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Can someone recommend me a Twitter client (I don't tweet, only read)? TweetDeck is pissing me off.


Why not just the official one?

I think Twitterrific is still going, haven't looked for ages though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Can someone recommend me a Twitter client (I don't tweet, only read)? TweetDeck is pissing me off.



Hootsuite? There's a new one looks nice although have tried it yet called Twitterglass.


----------



## pesh (Oct 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Upgrade time and orange are offering me the iphone5 for waaay less than the android equivalents (all 4g).
> 
> iPhone 5 = free
> Samsung S III LTE = £199
> ...


 
assuming the running costs are the same, get the iphone, sell it to CEX for £595, buy S3 from asda for £400. result.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Upgrade time and orange are offering me the iphone5 for waaay less than the android equivalents (all 4g).
> 
> iPhone 5 = free
> Samsung S III LTE = £199
> ...


 Well orange is getting 4g first, and iPhone 5 is the only one of the list that 4G


----------



## Structaural (Oct 12, 2012)

I'll have a look, someone else recommended Tweetbot as well...


----------



## pesh (Oct 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well orange is getting 4g first, and iPhone 5 is the only one of the list that 4G


apart from the Samsung, HTC and Huawei


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> apart from the Samsung, HTC and Huawei


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2012)

The more I think about it the more moving the head phone port to the bottom on the iPhone makes perfect sense.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well orange is getting 4g first, and iPhone 5 is the only one of the list that 4G


They're all 4g, they're oranges initial 4g lineup.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 12, 2012)

So I should get the iPhone and sell it?  I'm liking that plan.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 12, 2012)

Hang on are all iPhone 5 4g?  Its the 16gb version.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Hang on are all iPhone 5 4g?  Its the 16gb version.


Yes.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 12, 2012)

Posting from the gym. Trying the new earphones for the first time. Expected sheer disappointment, but chuffing hell, they're doing very respectable things with the bass / clarity on a frankly repulsively dirty hard techno mix. 

LIKE.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm liking the new earpods too, no getting them in the wrong ear.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Posting from the gym. Trying the new earphones for the first time. Expected sheer disappointment, but chuffing hell, they're doing very respectable things with the bass / clarity on a frankly repulsively dirty hard techno mix.
> 
> LIKE.



How much leakage is there?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How much leakage is there?


About as much as the old ones. They sit just inside the ear rather than rammed into the ear canal, I find I'm able to wear them for much longer periods and I especially like the 'beefier' control toggle. An acceptable upgrade but still just a pair of £25 earphones, which probably cost Apple £10 at most to manufacture.  nicely package in an app/icon shaped box.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 13, 2012)

It pains me to say it, but I think the apple earphones are better than my £150 odd Sennheiser ie7s. 

Tbf, I suspect that's more of a reflection on the ie7s. I've had a sneaking suspicion for some time that I've put up with them bc they cost so bloody much. But I've never really got tremendous bass out of em, and next to the Apple earbuds they're lacking both clarity and bass. 

Pathetic!


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> An acceptable upgrade but still just a pair of £25 earphones, which probably cost Apple £10 at most to manufacture.  nicely package in an app/icon shaped box.


More like £3, I imagine.

TechRadar isn't so impressed with them:


> But for anyone thinking of buying these things separately for £25/$30 – forget it. That price is utterly ludicrous.
> 
> For that money you could bag yourself a decent pair of Sennheisers – low end ones admittedly – but they would still be head and shoulders better than the Apple EarPods. In fact, we challenge you to find a pair of £25 earphones on Amazon that sound worse than this - you won't be able to.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2012)

FaceTime on 3G is a bloody great thing, having video chat built in makes everything so easy when you have family overseas!


----------



## Dr Jon (Oct 16, 2012)

Not just students, schoolkids too...

Electronics manufacturer Foxconn says underage interns found working at factory in China

- though it seems that Spewlett Hackard and MicroShite are the main beneficiaries this time.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 18, 2012)

Just back home with service replacement no. 2 

tbh, this one was moderately unnecessary, and I was really tempted not to do anything. But was in town for something else, so stopped by and asked.

There was what looked like a tiny impact mark / dink on the *underside* of the gorilla glass. Completely invisible in normal use. Completely invisible in most situations. But when the screen was black / unlit / locked, and viewed from a position behind and to the left of the home button, at an angle / elevation of about 20-30 degrees, you could see a small pattern / network of... erm... almost splinters of light, catching in several directions, off / across a central dink (well, tbf, more of a 'central mm-across matt patch'). Like tiny, tiny, tiny scratches. Only a mm or four across. And only, like I say, visible if you're really really fucking looking for it 

So, like, given I was in town for other things, I stopped by and asked. And, after spending a couple of minutes standing next to two people who angled it every which way possible before finally catching a hint of it, they replaced it.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 18, 2012)

tbf, Apple's customer service is one of the main reasons that (IMO) they'll always be worth it _chez nous. _

My iPad's been replaced twice. First time, free, because of a scratch in the gorilla glass. Second time, £180ish, after the whole thing died after a bit over a year (two years?)

My iMac was replaced once. Took it home, plugged it in, the plug went *FLAFSSHMSFMFMM* and shorted out the whole of downstairs, giving off a billow of smoke in the process. tbf, that might've been due to a fucked extension cord (?!) but it was easy enough to get replaced, ay, and I'd previously used the same lead without any problems with my Dell.

And my first ever iPhone is now on its third reincarnation within two weeks  Once, undeniably my fault and £180. The second time, imperfection / oddity in glass, free.

Oh. And there was the half-day purchase of a MacBook air, too. Before I took that back and got it replaced with a MacBook Pro (bad / pressurised selling resulting in me being talked into something I didn't want, in that instance!)

That's quite a lot of replacements.

I suspect I've been quite a solid source of refurbished goods, over the years


----------



## sim667 (Oct 18, 2012)

pesh said:


> apart from the Samsung, HTC and Huawei


 
I didnt realise they were all 4g.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 18, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I didnt realise they were all 4g.


Two of them have LTE in their name.

That's a euphemism for 4G, isn't it?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 18, 2012)

Fuck knows, im pretty sure the last non apple phone I had was a motorola A920. Then I got the first iPhone and stopped giving a shit about any other manufacturers


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 18, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Fuck knows, im pretty sure the last non apple phone I had was a motorola A920. Then I got the first iPhone and stopped giving a shit about any other manufacturers


I was speaking to a gentleman in an Apple store the other day, who said something similar.

btw, I've now restored new / 'service unit' iPhones twice.

First time, it went from having about 5gb of spare memory to having about 0.1gb.

Second time (just now) it's done a full restore from a phone that was 1.2gb off full at 11.45 this morning, and it's got 5.9gb of space going spare.

wtf is going on with that, ay?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 18, 2012)

It seems the only way to keep iPhone5 pristine is to case it, which is a pity.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> I was speaking to a gentleman in an Apple store the other day, who said something similar.
> 
> btw, I've now restored new / 'service unit' iPhones twice.
> 
> ...


well in effect flash memory is a bit weird when it comes to allocated storage and deleted files... you can delete files which aren't 'there' any more but still retain space which will then be removed at reformat thus freeing up the space... in a mac you'd need to also delete them from the trash to free up the space...

it's just the way it all works reformatting the thing means you're starting from an empty shell and only adding in the files which you want...


----------



## sim667 (Oct 18, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> well in effect flash memory is a bit weird when it comes to allocated storage and deleted files... you can delete files which aren't 'there' any more but still retain space which will then be removed at reformat thus freeing up the space... in a mac you'd need to also delete them from the trash to free up the space...
> 
> it's just the way it all works reformatting the thing means you're starting from an empty shell and only adding in the files which you want...


 
This. Also when iphone apps are downloading/installing i think they need twice their own size so they've got room to run the iphone equiv of the .pkg


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 18, 2012)

Which doesn't explain - afaict - why two restores from backup approx. 6 days apart with near-identical apps and all identical settings have about 4gb difference between them. Does it?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Which doesn't explain - afaict - why two restores from backup approx. 6 days apart with near-identical apps and all identical settings have about 4gb difference between them. Does it?


yes, but clearly you don't understand why...


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 18, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes, but clearly you don't understand why...


On two brand new, previously empty phones?

If your explanation explained that then you're right, I clearly don't understand that. You seemed to be talking about files being deleted during a reformat, when I was putting them onto two different, completely new units which - afaik - held no previous files *to* be deleted.

E2a: drawing on your analogy, there was no "trash" to be emptied, in either case.

E2a2: and iTunes picked both up & identified both as empty before beginning the restore. It hadn't Identified any "trash" before beginning the restore, in other words.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> On two brand new, previously empty phones?


 
If they're apple replacements they'll be refurbs rather than brand new.

They'll probs be ones that were returned on day one and have been sent back out if they're iphone 5s.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 18, 2012)

sim667 said:


> If they're apple replacements they'll be refurbs rather than brand new.
> 
> They'll probs be ones that were returned on day one and have been sent back out if they're iphone 5s.


Yep. Fully appreciated that's a possibility. 

Even presuming that they were sent back / out with data in some form still in them, iTunes was stating that the drives were empty before I restored from backup. 

Are you suggesting that at that point, it wasn't picking up data that it did start picking up on following a restore? How would that work, then?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 18, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> On two brand new, previously empty phones?
> 
> If your explanation explained that then you're right, I clearly don't understand that. You seemed to be talking about files being deleted during a reformat, when I was putting them onto two different, completely new units which - afaik - held no previous files *to* be deleted.
> 
> ...


they did, they are, the explanation still holds.

a new or refurb unit still has a version of the software on in them to which you restore your version to, dependant on the history (new smaller footprint larger space) refurb (larger foot print lower space) the unit will have a variance amount of 'free space' which is accessible.

the fact that they are new to you is neither here nor there and that when you restore you are doing a complete reformat whether you chose to or not by virtue of the process.

There's reasons for the size differences and jumps with flash drives it's a dull and long to explain but it is in essence as I've said old deleted files hanging around after they've been killed off because they haven't been trashed... wither by the OS they were deleted from or by the device themselves...  the space has been freed up not cleared if this helps?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 18, 2012)

another way to put this would be you know when a PVR or tivo fills up to the limit and then it records over the oldest program in order to recover space.   this is in effect how flash works so you've got a 1 hour program which another program wants to use 20 mins of to carry on recording so it clears 20 mins of the oldest program on the tivo even if that program is actually 1:30 hr / mins so you'd still have 1:10 hr / mins left to record over even though you've also got no space left.... if that helps...


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 18, 2012)

So you're stating that refuted drives ship with data on them? "Trashed," or otherwise?

Re: native software / OSs, both units were identical shop-fresh iPhone 5s, running the same version of iOS, with 0 the same 28.08 (iirc) gb identified as "available" on the same 32gb "blank" drives. 

There's been nothing *to* delete to "free up space," unless the phones shipped / were sold with other people's data on them, which iTunes was unable to identify until it'd fully restored from backup, in one go.  

All your explanations seem to centre on deleted data. That's fine, but afaict that means you're stating that refurbed / service unit iPhones ship with data on them, which may be completely invisible to iTunes until the phone's been synced / reformatted.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 18, 2012)

Kinda. 

I've simplified cos the long explanation is long and very dull. But yes. In effect the pre installed system is data restoring. It deletes the pre install and replaces it with your data.   The deleted files are then taking up space until its needed.  

Due to the nature of disks even flash drives the 'size' varies slightly from the advertised size so they will be different from different batches of disks.


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2012)

Space that has been freed up as far as the OS is concerned, but has not yet happened to be overridden on that part of the storage device, should still show up as unused space when it comes to stats the OS provides to the user about free space. Thats the traditional story, but flash storage does add a few extra subplots to the tale. Im not sure if they explain this case or not.


----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2012)

If I wanted to solve the mystery I would have a look at the size of the backup files on your computer. The simplest explanation is that something changed during the 6 days or whatever, and the backups involved a different quantity of data as a result. Or something else changed like certain settings or a variation in which large apps are installed.

I have also had the storage indication bar in itunes lag behind reality for me on occasions, there are times that large deleted media files dont free up their space instantly as far as this indicator is concerned. But it doesnt take too much longer for the device & itunes to reflect the changes, and it certainly doesnt take a reformat of storage.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

Looks like Apple's recent lack of real innovation is having an impact. 


> Apple customers are famed for their loyalty, but it looks as though some of them may not be as fanatical as they’ve been in the past. New data from Strategy Analytics shows that 75% of iPhone owners in Western Europe said they would buy an Apple device for their next smartphone, versus 88% who said they’d buy an iPhone for their next device last year.
> 
> “There is no doubt that Apple is continuing its success in retaining existing user base while attracting new customers,” commented Paul Brown, Director at Strategy Analytics’ User Experience Practice. “However, negative press prompted by a perceived lack of recent innovation by Apple has meant we are starting to see some growth in the number of previously highly loyal consumers who are now reconsidering whether or not they will purchase a new iPhone for their next device.”


http://bgr.com/2012/10/30/iphone-user-loyalty-drops-europe-united-states/


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> Looks like Apple's recent lack of real innovation is having an impact.
> 
> http://bgr.com/2012/10/30/iphone-user-loyalty-drops-europe-united-states/


75% and 88% of how many people found how and asked what (in Western Europe)?

And 93% and 88% of how many people found how and asked what (in the US)?

Where's the data on 'lack of real innovation' and its direct relationship with these figures?



NB: these aren't criticisms. I'm not even saying that your interpretation is wrong. I'm asking questions about the data, what it means, and what it can be meaningfully used to assert.



wrt 'buying intent,' If someone goes out to measure x, then without knowing how they've measured it, it's hard to say how meaningful, valuable or reliable their measure is.

wrt 'innovation,' if someone goes out to measure x, then even if their data is amazing, it's likely to be difficult to claim 'y causes x' unless you have data on y, or a bloody good reason for making a statement about y.



afaict, most of the sources that're reporting these stats link back to a 4-page report that's subscription-only, and which - in its abstract / front-page description - states nothing whatsoever about the figures or methods behind the proportions.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> 75% and 88% of how many people found how and asked what (in Western Europe)?
> 
> And 93% and 88% of how many people found how and asked what (in the US)?
> 
> Where's the data on 'lack of real innovation' and its direct relationship with these figures?


I was careful to use the phrase, "looks like" rather than state it as a fact, so you really don't need to explode into a barrage of questions every time I post up a link to a new study. 

But I have to say that it does reflect what I'm hearing from quite a few of my friends, some of whom have switched to Android recently.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> I was careful to use the phrase, "looks like" rather than state it as a fact, so you really don't need to explode into a barrage of questions every time I post up a link to a new study.


Numbers don't *necessarily* mean anything. 50% of mammals in my office at this moment are cats. If I presented data stating that 50% of sampled mammals in Western Europe are cats, and hid it behind a pay wall with only percentages and no actual numbers reported, it'd be bonkers for me to then go around saying "it looks like cats have become hyper-successful super-predators," even if several mates had cats who'd recently had large litters of kittens.

That's an absurd example of a shit methodology, obv. But, like... data needs context. The study you're citing second-hand reports of doesn't seem to provide any details about what it did, or how, or what it asked, of whom. Or - even - how many people, where, were involved.

That begs questions. Because otherwise, it's easy to think that it's a meaningful or valuable study, when it *might* be an utterly dire report based on pitiful numbers, produced to make a few quid.

It might not be. But afaict, there's - literally - fuck all alongside it to indicate that the data's of any quality at all.

I would, of course, welcome any further info - I'm not interested in rubbishing the study, but I am concerned that it states nothing that might even begin to allow someone to determine if it's utterly dire and beyond meaningless pap, or excellent and reliable data.

Doesn't that concern you? Not in the slightest?



> But I have to say that it does reflect what I'm hearing from quite a few of my friends, some of whom have switched to Android recently.


And anecdote, taken and presented as anecdote, is indisputable! Limited in how far it can be generalised, but indisputable as anecdote!


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Numbers don't *necessarily* mean anything. 50% of mammals in my office at this moment are cats. If I presented data stating that 50% of sampled mammals in Western Europe are cats, and hid it behind a pay wall with only percentages and no actual numbers reported, it'd be bonkers for me to then go around saying "it looks like cats have become hyper-successful super-predators," even if several mates had cats who'd recently had large litters of kittens.....


Why don't you just post up a page somewhere with all these same points you raise every single time you see a study with a conclusion you seem to have a personal issue with? It'll save you an awful lot of typing.

I don't think anyone here takes polls as the gospel truth on _anything_ (although they can provide useful pointers or topics to talk about), so I've no idea why you go into such a hissy fit every time one appears.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> Why don't you just post up a page somewhere with all these same points you raise every single time you see a study with a conclusion you seem to have a personal issue with? It'll save you an awful lot of typing.
> 
> I don't think anyone here takes polls as the gospel truth on _anything_ (although they can provide useful pointers or topics to talk about), so I've no idea why you go into such a hissy fit every time one appears.


Why do you think querying the strength of data is a 'hissy fit'?

Why do you think I didn't query your posts wrt Kindle fire sales / the iPad mini launch?

Do you find it objectionable, to think that the quality of data might ever be relevant? Or would you genuinely like to see complete junk data confused with good / reliable data?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2012)

This type of polling reminds me of the old who you gonna vote for at the next election which is years away. People always answer in ways that are different to when they get to the voting booth...


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Why do you think querying the strength of data is a 'hissy fit'?
> 
> Why do you think I didn't query your posts wrt Kindle fire sales / the iPad mini launch?
> 
> Do you find it objectionable, to think that the quality of data might ever be relevant? Or would you genuinely like to see complete junk data confused with good / reliable data?


Why do you think Strategy Analytics produce junk data?


----------



## Kanda (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> Why do you think Strategy Analytics produce junk data?


 
He probably doesn't. He didn't say that.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> Why do you think Strategy Analytics produce junk data?


Where have I said that they did? Can you find one sentence in which I've stated that the quality of their data IS good or IS bad?

You've stated that you're against religious zealotry. I presume you're also against blind faith. IMO, that means not believing in things without evidence.

What've I asked about? Data. Quality of data. Evidence. Anything to support a claim that it is or isn't reliable. Anything to even begin to suggest it, one way or the other.

I don't have blind faith in 'strategy analytics,' because I have no idea who they are, or what they did.

What I'm curious about is the origins and quality of the data.

Do you have any info wrt that? Because I couldn't find any.

It might be absolutely excellent. It might be complete junk. The lack of provenance concerns me. Doesn't it concern you?

If not, that's fine, like. But can you see the difference between taking numbers on faith, and looking for evidence / information about their quality?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Where have I said that they did? Can you find one sentence in which I've stated that the quality of their data IS good or IS bad?
> 
> You've stated that you're against religious zealotry. I presume you're also against blind faith. IMO, that means not believing in things without evidence.
> 
> ...


If you have no idea if it's 'junk data' or not, what are you getting your knickers in such a twist about?


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> If you have no idea if it's 'junk data' or not


 
Right. Thank you. Wasn't that easy?

e2a: oop. I thought that was you saying "I have no idea..."

My misreading


----------



## Crispy (Oct 31, 2012)

Stop making long posts full of facts and reason, they make my head hurt.


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> If you have no idea if it's 'junk data' or not, what are you getting your knickers in such a twist about?


IMO, not being able to determine whether data is meaningful and reliable or complete junk is quite important. Why do you think I might believe that?

Do you not think that's important, or interesting?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> IMO, not being able to determine whether data is meaningful and reliable or complete junk is quite important. Why do you think I might believe that?
> 
> Do you not think that's important, or interesting?


So what are your grounds for thinking that Strategy Analytics _might_ be producing junk data?


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> So what are you grounds for thinking that Strategy Analytics might be producing junk data?


Where have I said that they are?

Don't you think it's important or interesting that we have *no idea* how good or bad their data is?

Do you have faith in their data, one way or the other? Based on what evidence?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Where have I said that they are?


So if you have no grounds to suspect that they may be producing junk data, wtf are you going on and on and on about?


----------



## Kanda (Oct 31, 2012)

oh my word...


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> So if you have no grounds to suspect that they may be producing junk data, wtf are you going on and on and on about?





mrs quoad said:


> IMO, not being able to determine whether data is meaningful and reliable or complete junk is quite important. Why do you think I might believe that?
> 
> Do you not think that's important, or interesting?


 


mrs quoad said:


> Don't you think it's important or interesting that we have *no idea* how good or bad their data is?
> 
> Do you have faith in their data, one way or the other? Based on what evidence?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

I have no reason to suspect that Strategy Analytics are in the habit of producing junk data and none of the articles that reported on this study suggested that either. The fact that their findings seem pretty self explanatory to me make me less inclined to immediately reach for the 'junk data' card.

How about you? What are you grounds for doubt?

You have heard of Strategy Analytics, by the way?


----------



## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> I have no reason to suspect that Strategy Analytics are in the habit of producing junk data and none of the articles that reported on this study suggested that either. The fact that their findings seem pretty self explanatory to me make me less inclined to immediately reach for the 'junk data' card.


Can you see that there's nothing in what you've just posted that goes beyond 'faith,' though?

This, IMO, is really important wrt data. Data is not just a number; it's something that is created by a process, and the process that creates it can massively impact on the number that pops out of the end.

If you don't have any idea of the process, you can't have any idea of how meaningful that number is.

You might have faith in it. You might like it. It might fit with things that seem to make sense.

But you have no idea of whether it's meaningful or complete crap until you understand the process that created it.

Here's a post in which I was trying to get some data on whether or not child killings were gender-neutral. Firstly, I always tried to explain my data sources, _and the limitations of them. _Secondly, note the footnote in the first post:


mrs quoad said:


> *Devon and Exeter MARAC data is the first MARAC stats I've found, with a gendered breakdown on p.4. The stats for 'older' people are a classic piece of shit reporting - they're presenting stats relating to 2 and 1 man respectively, giving some context to their that '66%' and '50%' of victims in these age brackets are men. Overall, 10% men.


 
_The numbers were not reported in the main body of the text. _Indeed, the author had taken the 50% and 66% as meaningful figures, suggesting that there might be a real problem with DV for older men. It was only because I looked at the actual numbers in the actual tables that I was able to realise where those seemingly huge and potentially worrying figures came from.

Here's another example, from an official evaluation conducted by that bastion of statistical reputability, the Home Office.



> Retention in [drug] treatment ... was good both before and after Tough Choices: overall retention at 12 weeks was 79 per cent for [one group] and 74 per cent for [a second group].


 
You would _never _know, until you look in something like the 5th table in Appendix C (p.21, for sure), that the authors have defined and re-defined their groups so ridiculously that '79%' means 244 people out of a group of 7,797, whilst '74%' means 303 people out of a group of 11,015. In real world terms, IIRC, that's somewhere between 2% and 3%.

The %s look great. The sources are eminently reputable. But the data, in those two real-world examples (admittedly chosen because of their shitness), is garbage.

_The quality of data is important. _And understanding the processes that produced data is an absolute benchmark in understanding whether or not that data is good, or complete junk.





> How about you? What are you grounds for doubt?


 
Specifically?

It concerns me that they do not report anything to do with their methodology _anywhere. _Often, when I've followed links to this kinda data, I've found things like (off the top of my head) 'data was gathered from 15,000 phones with x App installed.'

There is nothing here that tells me what they asked; who they asked; why they chose those people; how representative those people were of broader populations; or - tbh - anything about how they asked the question, how they counted answers, and what their data might _mean._

_All of those things can affect the answers._

There is nothing here, either, that provides numbers. That concerns me even more.

88% of 11 people, is 8. 88% of 10,000 people is 8,800.

That's a big difference. Which impacts on how strong and meaningful the data is.

A 5% drop may be very significant, in a massive study based on very solid measures. It may be utterly meaningless in a small study, or one with a lot of variation in people's answers.

To give you an example, this - IMO - is an example of excellent caution wrt official statistics:




			
				UK net migration numbers decrease - ONS said:
			
		

> The Office for National Statistics said that estimated net migration in the year to December 2011 was 216,000 - down from 252,000 the previous year.
> It said the fall was not statistically significant...


That's a drop of 36,000 people. Out of 252,000. A fall of 14.3% (?)

Yet thank fuck for civil servants and statisticians, who - very rightly - pointed out that when you're relying on very inaccurate measures, that kind of drop may be _entirely _due to things other than a fall in net migration.

Even that 14.3% drop, representing 36,000 people, was not statistically meaningful because of the nature of the data and the means of data collection. To explain that a bit further: the level of inaccuracy produced by the process of data gathering is so great that even a drop of 36,000 people / 14.3% might be created by the _process of measurement_, not by changes in the real world.



It also worries me when researchers do not report the numbers behind percentages, because percentages _never _exist outside of an absolute numerical context. And, given how little space it takes up to state 'x,000 people were asked in a survey delivered by...' that worries me.

It is non-transparent, when transparency costs nothing. And, in and of itself, that's enough to leave me thinking that these questions are, at the very least, worth asking.

The data is also - afaict - a 4-page report hidden behind a pay-wall.

Not _one _article or second hand report - not of the ones I found, at least - provided any data beyond the %s. I don't know if that's because they were all copying each other, or because the report says nothing about the methodology / numbers. Which is why I felt it asking the original questions.

You - rightly - queried the reliability of the Guardian's tech critic. "If he's being paid / loads of freebies, how might that skew his interest? If at all?"

That this data comes from a private company based behind a pay-wall, with an interest in producing newsworthy stats, a lack of any methodological transparency, and a form of data reporting (%s) which is about as non-transparent (whilst being newsworthy) as you can get, leads me to think that these questions are worth asking.

That _isn't_ to prejudge the answers - the data might be excellent. I have - with an open mind - asked if there is anything out there beyond faith, that might give an indication of the strength of the study's methodology.

But it _is _to say that those questions are worth asking, and - IMO - the research methodology actively invites them.





> You have heard of Strategy Analytics, by the way?


 
No.

If I had, would that mean that I should ignore all ^^^ those concerns, and take anything they produce as gospel?

Because that, to me, is the absolute antithesis of a good or meaningful approach to data.

I have seen complete junk reported on tech websites, without critique or commentary.

IMO, it'd often greatly improve the reporting if there were a few people out there who understood the basics of research design; and what numbers might or might not actually _mean, _and what can be reasonably inferred from them_. _



It's an old axiom in any kind of research, but recognising the limitations of data makes arguments _stronger. _If someone understands what their data can and cannot do, it can greatly, greatly improve the power of any argument based on it.


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## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

Studies and surveys are all part of tech news and chitter chatter, and they can often form a good talking point.

I don't think anyone in their right mind accepts their findings as the unequivocal facts of the matter, even more so when the question being asked is something as abstract as what phone someone might be buying at some unspecified time in the future.

So I must confess to being a little baffled by your rather bizarre overreaction. No one here is making any claims at all for this study being particularly meaningful in relation to _anything._


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## elbows (Oct 31, 2012)

I have a low regard for surveys in general. However those numbers do kinda match my own experience, when I ditched my old iphone 3G for an galaxy nexus just over 11 months ago. However if I were forced at gunpoint to complete a survey about customer satisfaction, it would not tell a story of android winning my loyalty, and as I havent spent much money on apps the barrier to me switching back to an iphone at some point is pretty insignificant.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> Studies and surveys are all part of tech news and chitter chatter, and they can often form a good talking point.
> 
> I don't think anyone in their right mind accepts their findings as the unequivocal facts of the matter, even more so when the question being asked is something as abstract as what phone someone might be buying at some unspecified time in the future.
> 
> So I must confess to being a little baffled by your rather bizarre overreaction. No one here is making any claims at all for this study being particularly meaningful in relation to _anything._


tbf, that kinda answers my queries - you have no interest in data quality, and no interest or understanding in whether or not the 'information' you posted is reliable. And nor have other tech bloggers (IIUC?).

Fine, like!

I'm glad we got there in the end!

You appreciate that there are ways of measuring "something as abstract as what phone someone might be buying" that might yield reasonably reliable results, though? Or might, at least, provide answers that could be taken seriously or credibly? But that it's impossible to know, unless someone at least gives _some _idea of the way they went about it.

And, tbf, I'll never regret taking questions about data validity or quality seriously! Or responding to them fully.

Like you say, information has to be better than 'religious zealotry,' ay!


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## Structaural (Oct 31, 2012)

Has the problem with errant files (usually under 'Other' in iTunes) been solved in iOS6?
In iOS5 I have 3.5GB of Other. Very annoying, might to jailbreak (bit of a pain with a dodgy button).


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## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> tbf, that kinda answers my queries - you have no interest in data quality, and no interest or understanding in whether or not the 'information' you posted is reliable. And nor have other tech bloggers (IIUC?).


I don't suppose you even see the hypocrisy present in that thoroughly dishonest misrepresentation? No, of course not. You're only interested in trying to score increasingly bizarre points and protecting your beloved brand from any form of criticism.

I have a lot of interest in 'data quality' when meaningful questions are being asked of an important topic. However, this was just asking punters what make smartphone they may or may not get next time they decide to buy a new phone. There is no 100% scientific answer to such a question because people may change their mind the instant a new phone comes out, or may decide they can't afford a new phone at all.

What such a surveys can do, however, is capture a limited snapshot about how some brands are perceived from the people they asked, and that usually forms a basis for a discussion.

But not for you, sadly. Quite why you're gone so gloriously over the top about this is anyone's guess. I have to say I do find it a little odd.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> I have a lot of interest in 'data quality' when meaningful questions are being asked of an important topic.


I'll look out for that day, ed 

May it come soon.



> However, this was just asking punters what make smartphone they may or may not get next time they decide to buy a new phone... What such a surveys can do, however, is capture a limited snapshot about how some brands are perceived from the people they asked, and that usually forms a basis for a discussion.


Now even this, see, is the first time I've seen it stated that it was a survey! That information isn't contained in either the report's home page, or in any second-hand articles on it. Not so far as I've seen, at least.

Thank you for that. I'm guessing you've seen data I haven't.

Any idea of the survey's size, and / or how it was delivered? I can't access that information, and haven't found any sites reporting it.


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## editor (Oct 31, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> I'll look out for that day, ed
> 
> May it come soon.
> 
> ...


Instead of spending time trying to discredit me with woefully inaccurate generalisations, you could have just asked them directly yourself. 

This might get you started: 


> Strategy Analytics is the only research firm with an in-house user experience practice that studies virtually all aspects of technology adoption, including home, mobile and automotive. Our insights and recommendations are based on ongoing, independent research investigating consumer behaviors, attitudes and usage scenarios, and a scheduled program of usability evaluation and benchmarking activities. We apply ethnographic, sociological, quantitative and qualitative primary research methodologies within multiple geographic markets on a syndicated and custom basis for clients around the world.
> 
> Our user experience experts interact on a daily basis with Strategy Analytics’ industry analysts in devices, media and applications, networks and other focus areas, building on a comprehensive knowledgebase of industry issues and trends.
> 
> ...


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## mrs quoad (Oct 31, 2012)

editor said:


> Instead of spending time trying to discredit me with woefully inaccurate generalisations, you could have just asked them directly yourself.
> 
> This might get you started:


You realise that a simple "I don't know" in response to my first three questions would've short-circuited this all 

You don't know. Fine. You don't know it was a survey (I think?), you don't know how many people they spoke to, you've got no idea what they asked, or whether or not it's reliable. But you have a lot of faith in the company, and their %s are 'self-explanatory'.

As I said a couple of posts back, that's fine. And more power to you!

Have a great evening, ay.


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## elbows (Oct 31, 2012)

All our insights are belong to pus.


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## Crispy (Oct 31, 2012)

Your perseverence is perverse, Quoad. It's peverseverence.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2012)

It's quite literally a form of madness or pure genius.


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## mrs quoad (Nov 1, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Your perseverence is perverse, Quoad. It's peverseverence.


tbf, I've taught reasonably advanced statistics to a fair few police / prison / probation middle managers. Polite, slow, and endlessly repetitive (with a handful of good examples) is nothing new, and the subject is always a pleasure!

*And* once written, forever quotable.

I hope that politely and comprehensively explaining data validity once (or over the course of one series of posts) will mean that I won't need to type it out again. Thanks to the quote function, obv.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2012)

I think you do the discussion a valuable service. Too often numbers are bandied about with being scrutinized.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 1, 2012)

editor said:


> So what are your grounds for thinking that Strategy Analytics _might_ be producing junk data?


what are your grounds for stating they are not conversely...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 1, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't suppose you even see the hypocrisy present in that thoroughly dishonest misrepresentation? No, of course not. You're only interested in trying to score increasingly bizarre points and protecting your beloved brand from any form of criticism.
> 
> I have a lot of interest in 'data quality' when meaningful questions are being asked of an important topic. However, this was just asking punters what make smartphone they may or may not get next time they decide to buy a new phone. There is no 100% scientific answer to such a question because people may change their mind the instant a new phone comes out, or may decide they can't afford a new phone at all.
> 
> ...


wow thoroughly discredited as someone who utterly fails to do anything other than crowds source through google for his facts just like Jazzz, and still doesn't have the humility to admit that he's been show up as some ranting zealot but rather goes straight for the personal attacks on a poster over the fact he hasn't checked his sources before posting them and they don't stand up to robust, vigorous or any kind of scrutiny... 

:Shocked: not... 

have you absolutely no candour, editor, none at all?


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## editor (Nov 1, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> wow thoroughly discredited as someone who utterly fails to do anything other than crowds source through google for his facts just like Jazzz, and still doesn't have the humility to admit that he's been show up as some ranting zealot but rather goes straight for the personal attacks on a poster over the fact he hasn't checked his sources before posting them and they don't stand up to robust, vigorous or any kind of scrutiny...


I didn't quote anything as a 'fact'.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 1, 2012)

editor said:


> I didn't quote anything as a 'fact', you stupid boy.


 
so stupid as to have pointed out that they were your facts not a fact as in you've made up your own version of events as per...

as for the stupid boy, thanks, if that makes my pike then you're Mainwearing all right...  very wearing... still no candour then...

not even a touch just more name calling and abuse rather than any admittance of being incorrect...

never surrender is it?

or just that you don't like it up em... eh...


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## editor (Nov 1, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so stupid as to have pointed out that they were your facts not a fact as in you've made up your own version of events as per...


Where did I quote something as a 'fact' in this thread, please?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 1, 2012)

editor said:


> Where did I quote something as a 'fact' in this thread, please?


in this sentence above you have said "something as a 'fact'"!!

there.

point proved.

silly game over now??

cease your silliness immediately, you're not twisting your lack of ability to admit when your in the wrong deflecting like some jazzz zealot wriggler...

stop it now.

fess up, admit it and cease this mud slinging before you get your self further into ridicule and look even more fantastically silly than you do at present.

If it's you against the world, usually, you're in the wrong... notice how everyone's against you... get the point yet... 

no obviously points and getting are two things you miss... often...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 1, 2012)

subtle edit btw... not at all dishonest... stupid boy...


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## editor (Nov 1, 2012)

Oh, just fuck off with your weird nonsense, Garf.


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## editor (Nov 1, 2012)

Someone has knocked out a concept video showing what widgets would look like on iOS.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 1, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh, just fuck off with your weird nonsense, Garf.


no you fuck off with your taking great umbridge at ever having anything you post held up to identical scrutiny to any other poster and thinking in some way you've a magical right not be be challenged on your constant bullshit comments... really...

why don't you make it all about how weirdo and mental I am cos I write and spell funny, why not also claim my mum smells and that i dress like a gypsy too while you're at it... huh... anything else in your viz big book of childish bollocks to throw at eveyrone when failing to admit you're wrong you'd like to choose?? anything...

oh and for the record this isn't about me...

this is about the stupid boy that linked to sources that aren't worth a piss without first bothering to look at them objectively in exactly the same manner with the same disregard of any candour at all in their own integrity as a lunatic that looks for obammie's passport or holographic missile planes...

same shit...
same smell...

so fuck off with your rank hypocrisy too...

if you were any more pwned or discredited you'd be Jazzz's Huntley theory and pks pub fire bomb stories put together ...

why don't you go and make up some fake stats about how I'm the most complained about poster on here again and launch a series of personal attacks on me now that I've dared point out you're still in the wrong and still have insufficient candour or grace to admit it...

or maybe even threaten a ban...

now the gloves are off of this stupid boy...

dishonest edit, from a dishonest, wriggling man...

but hey at least this spazo can't sell or read eh at least it's not a normal...


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## editor (Nov 1, 2012)

Good news for iPhone5-ers! The cheapo Chinese knock off connectors work just fine:
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/11/yep-chinese-lightning-connector-knock-offs-work-just-fine/


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2012)

iOS 6.0.1 is out, the usual bug fixes and sorts the wifi issue some users were experiencing.


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## twentythreedom (Nov 1, 2012)

Quoad rules


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## Sunray (Nov 1, 2012)

After some use, iOS6 has given me a shed load of screen real estate for browsing.  The difference when all the controls are removed and the web page fills the screen, its a wonder they didn't do that in the past. Simple thing, massive difference.


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## Structaural (Nov 2, 2012)

The dutch mobile companies are a bunch of criminals.


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## Structaural (Dec 11, 2012)

interesting controller prototype:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wynlabs/wyncase-turn-the-iphone-into-a-true-mobile-gaming


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 11, 2012)

That main guy really fancies himself as a Scott Forstall doesn't he? Interesting idea but can't see it taking off tbh....


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## editor (Dec 11, 2012)

It's not exactly stylish.  Besides, isn't there already loads of these bolt on type gaming devices and none of them seem to have caught the world on fire.






And this seems rather an odd way to advertise the thing.


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## Structaural (Dec 11, 2012)

What's interesting about that one is it needs no bluetooth or plugin - it works on the capacitance layer.

It's a startup/ prototype trying to get enough finance, Ed. It's probably a member of staff.


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## elbows (Dec 11, 2012)

It looks shit, and a lack of analogue stick makes it less than compelling for a broad range of games.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 11, 2012)

Yeah the capacitive touch thing was actually quite interesting, just think it should be a little slimmer...


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## Structaural (Dec 11, 2012)

fair enough


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## mrs quoad (Dec 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> It looks shit, and a lack of analogue stick makes it less than compelling for a broad range of games.


^^^ it's the analogue thing that really blows it for me. I'd be curious if it was cheap *and* analogue. Being restricted to 8 cardinal-ish points is quite... retrograde.


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## Structaural (Dec 13, 2012)

Google maps is back for iOS6


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## elbows (Dec 13, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Google maps is back for iOS6


 
So long as you are prepared to sign into a google account it seems. edit - I see I can skip that bit, but google are unsurprisingly trying to encourage people to login when they first use it.

And there is no iPad version yet (the phone version will run on the ipad but sucks compared to a proper tablet app).


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2012)

It's back on iPhone not iPad oddly...


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## Structaural (Dec 14, 2012)

Do people use it on an iPad, without GPS?


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## maldwyn (Dec 14, 2012)

You can use wifi to access the maps and find your own location.


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## sim667 (Dec 14, 2012)

Is the app store not connecting for other people today?


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## belboid (Dec 14, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Is the app store not connecting for other people today?


 
its fine for me


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## sim667 (Dec 14, 2012)

belboid said:


> its fine for me


 
Im trying to do updates and it keeps saying cannot connect.


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## Bungle73 (Dec 14, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Do people use it on an iPad, without GPS?


Is anyone silly enough to use an iPad for direction finding while out in the street?

I use the maps on my iPad when I want to look something up while at home or where ever.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2012)

Jesus, had a look a mate's iPhone 5 last weekend, he got it on launch day and the thing is scuffed to fuck, the coating is peeling all along the edges, the back has nasty scratches and this guy only has it in his pocket or on flat surfaces. It's barely four months old but looks like it's been in use for 2 years! Apple need to rethink this anodised coating crap if this is the resilience...


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## editor (Dec 28, 2012)

A friend of mine was equally unchuffed with his new iPhone 5 which is already covered in scuff marks on the edges. 

It's pissed him enough for him to consider switching to the 'other side' when his contract is up.


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## ash (Dec 28, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Is anyone silly enough to use an iPad for direction finding while out in the street?
> 
> I use the maps on my iPad when I want to look something up while at home or where ever.[/quote
> 
> I saw a couple doing this outside McDonalds in Brixton!


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## mrs quoad (Dec 28, 2012)

I keep mine in a rubber bumper / backing, in a leather foldover case.

So - when it's out, at least - it's still pristine.

(The same couldn't be said of the one I wrote off. Obv.)


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2012)

My iPhone 4S is still in near mint condition due to the excellent case I got for it, it's funny because the glass back thing got so much shit but it turns out it's far more durable than the newest bloody iPhone!


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## sim667 (Dec 29, 2012)

I've got a gear 4 icebox and my iPhone is pristine with the cover off


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## Throbbing Angel (Dec 31, 2012)

51 pages - Jesus - i can't read all that

Anyone feel like advising me on whether going iOS6 on an ipad 2 (16gb wifi only) is a good or bad idea


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## Sunray (Dec 31, 2012)

It will be an improvement. Apple have made iOS6 faster and there are lots of little enhancements to make a quite a big difference overall.

Its got a little more zip on my iPhone 4.   If you use maps a lot, I'd wait till google release Google Maps for iPad which I am assuming they will do at some point. 

If like me, maps aren't really something I use on the iPad, don't hesitate and upgrade.


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## Throbbing Angel (Jan 1, 2013)

cheers Sunray


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 10, 2013)

Apparently it's six years ago today the iPhone was announced. How time flies!


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## Structaural (Jan 10, 2013)

Waterproof your phone:

http://www.liquipel.com/liquipel/


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## mrs quoad (Jan 10, 2013)

Structaural said:


> Waterproof your phone:
> 
> http://www.liquipel.com/liquipel/


Some interesting youtube reviews, and this follow-up to an initial complete dunking: 

e2a: 

Though, tbf, you'd have to be a bit of a dick to dunk your phone in water just to find out. And afaict the liquipel website doesn't suggest it offers full-on dunk protection


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## souljacker (Jan 10, 2013)

Ok, so got an iPhone 5 now from work. Big question is, does anyone but apple sell the lightning to 30 pin adapters? I'd prefer a cable actually, if possible. The Apple one is expensive and gets awful reviews.


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## Crispy (Jan 10, 2013)

I think only apple makes them right now. They get bad reviews because they don't do all the things the 30 pin connector does. Lots of unsupported functionality. This is not going to get fixed by 3rd parties due to the way the new connector is designed.


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## peterkro (Jan 10, 2013)

It's because they are all digital,Apple are not shy about fucking off what they think is outdated technology,no matter that millions of people still use it.


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## souljacker (Jan 10, 2013)

I wanna use it with my speaker dock, so I only need audio and charging. Can they handle that ok?


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## Crispy (Jan 10, 2013)

souljacker said:


> I wanna use it with my speaker dock, so I only need audio and charging. Can they handle that ok?


If it's a simple analog audio out connection, then it should work. If your dock does some controlling of the ipod, it may not. Does your dock have a line-in? Use that instead.


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## souljacker (Jan 10, 2013)

Crispy said:


> If it's a simple analog audio out connection, then it should work. If your dock does some controlling of the ipod, it may not. Does your dock have a line-in? Use that instead.



Yeah, think I'll just stick with line in and forget about the charging.


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## editor (Jan 10, 2013)

peterkro said:


> It's because they are all digital,Apple are not shy about fucking off what they think is outdated technology,no matter that millions of people still use it.


Especially when there's lots of money to be made from the move.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 10, 2013)

Crispy said:


> I think only apple makes them right now. They get bad reviews because they don't do all the things the 30 pin connector does. Lots of unsupported functionality.


 
Such as?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 10, 2013)

peterkro said:


> It's because they are all digital,Apple are not shy about fucking off what they think is outdated technology,no matter that millions of people still use it.


 
Amazingly people still freak out when Apple do it every decade or so but when other companies have 18 different cables for charging over the same period it's fine.


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## souljacker (Jan 10, 2013)

Tr





Kid_Eternity said:


> Amazingly people still freak out when Apple do it every decade or so but when other companies have 18 different cables for charging over the same period it's fine.



True, but it shouldn't then cost 25 quid for the adaptor. 

People will pay it though.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 10, 2013)

souljacker said:


> Tr
> 
> True, but it shouldn't then cost 25 quid for the adaptor.
> 
> People will pay it though.


 
Yeah although 25 isn't that much if you can afford and iPhone.


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## peterkro (Jan 10, 2013)

It's £40 for an HDMI adaptor.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 10, 2013)

peterkro said:


> It's £40 for an HDMI adaptor.


 
You can buy it for less via Apple if you need it.

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/MD098ZM/A/apple-digital-av-adapter


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## peterkro (Jan 10, 2013)

I meant the Lightning to HDMI.


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## souljacker (Jan 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah although 25 isn't that much if you can afford and iPhone.


 
It fucking is!


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## pesh (Jan 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Amazingly people still freak out when Apple do it every decade or so but when other companies have 18 different cables for charging over the same period it's fine.


i didn't freak out, i just took my business elsewhere. fuck em


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## pesh (Jan 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah although 25 isn't that much if you can afford and iPhone.


worst. arguement. ever.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 13, 2013)

pesh said:


> worst. arguement. ever.


 
Really? You don't know much about iPhone demographics I take it.


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## pesh (Jan 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Really? You don't know much about iPhone demographics I take it.


judging by the numbers of their customers jumping ship recently i think you could level that accusation at Apple


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## Garek (Jan 20, 2013)

I've just updated my iPhone and also iTunes. Of course this now means I don't know how to add music to my iPhone  Doesn't seem to be a drag and drop option. I really hope I don't have to do the syncing thing. I fucking hate iTunes' syncing thing (and also iTunes in general).


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## mrs quoad (Jan 20, 2013)

Garek said:


> I've just updated my iPhone and also iTunes. Of course this now means I don't know how to add music to my iPhone  Doesn't seem to be a drag and drop option. I really hope I don't have to do the syncing thing. I fucking hate iTunes' syncing thing (and also iTunes in general).


Do you have iTunes match? If so, IME that makes it impossible to drag n drop (unless you turn it off, drag n drop, then turn it on again).


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## sim667 (Jan 20, 2013)

Garek said:


> I've just updated my iPhone and also iTunes. Of course this now means I don't know how to add music to my iPhone  Doesn't seem to be a drag and drop option. I really hope I don't have to do the syncing thing. I fucking hate iTunes' syncing thing (and also iTunes in general).



I have a playlist I drag and drop to and sync that


----------



## Garek (Jan 20, 2013)

Hmmm, just worked out that I can through "On Your Phone" and drag and drop there. Cool. No auto syncing then.


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## Structaural (Jan 21, 2013)

You can renable the side bar in View. Then your iPhone will be there.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2013)

And so the rumours of the 5S have started...


----------

