# Palm is back with an ‘ultra-mobile’ smartphone



## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

I can't say I'm remotely convinced - even if it is rather cute - but at least it's something a bit different









> The device, which is designed to split the difference between a smartphone and a smartwatch, is admittedly adorable. The startup behind the product employs designs with some impressive credentials, from Samsung to Frog Design.
> 
> Really, the device most obviously resembles an iPhone, shrunk down to a 3.3-inch display. The first iPhone, incidentally, had a 3.5-inch screen — though a lot has been done in the intervening 11 years to jam that kind of real estate into a far smaller footprint. And this device, fittingly, fits comfortably in the Palm of your hand.
> 
> ...









Palm returns as an ‘ultra-mobile’ smartphone


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## Mrs D (Oct 15, 2018)

It’s a gap in the market certainly. Not everyone has six inch deep pockets or wants to fill them with a six inch slab.

If only it ran iOS.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 15, 2018)

Hear that? It’s the sound of nobody buying one.


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## Dr. Furface (Oct 15, 2018)

Bless


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## mrs quoad (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


>


Is that blurry person laughing his arse off at just how crap the whole forearm setup is?


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## cheesethief (Oct 15, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> It’s a gap in the market certainly. Not everyone has six inch deep pockets or wants to fill them with a six inch slab.
> 
> If only it ran iOS.


iOS is exclusively for those with deep pockets.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

mrs quoad said:


> Is that blurry person laughing his arse off at just how crap the whole forearm setup is?


I've seen plenty of more laughable sights on joggers - like when they strap on a huge iPhone.


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## Nivag (Oct 15, 2018)

Shame it's expensive, but I like small phones.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> I've seen plenty of more laughable sights on joggers - like when they strap on a huge iPhone.


Not a fan of huge strap-ons, then? 

That bloke in the background does look like he’s having a rayt good chuckle.

Or he’s got a rayt unfortunate moustache.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

mrs quoad said:


> Not a fan of huge strap-ons, then?
> 
> That bloke in the background does look like he’s having a rayt good chuckle.
> 
> Or he’s got a rayt unfortunate moustache.


Or he could have his hooter in a flesh coloured nosebag.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> Or he could have his hooter in a flesh coloured nosebag.


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## BristolEcho (Oct 15, 2018)

Nivag said:


> Shame it's expensive, but I like small phones.



This. It seems massively overpriced to me. I'd still be intrigued to try one to see how it runs.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

BristolEcho said:


> This. It seems massively overpriced to me. I'd still be intrigued to try one to see how it runs.


If it was half the price it might pick up a few sales, but that price seems daft.

That said, I do like the idea of having a really small second phone to take out with me sometimes.


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## salem (Oct 15, 2018)

So by the 'additional $10 a month' comment I take it this is supposed to complement your main mobile rather than replace it? And 800mah is a dreadful battery size, even with a smaller screen size. My current phone is about 5x that.

I did used to be a big fan of small mobiles, so if they can make an ultra compact phone and add some magic to the userface to make it as usable as a regular mobile I might be interested in the future, but for now I can't really tell what it's trying to be and I don't see any reason I'd have one.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

salem said:


> So by the 'additional $10 a month' comment I take it this is supposed to complement your main mobile rather than replace it?


That might make it more appealing to contract phone users.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

Here's a video:


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

Look at it! It is so cute!


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

Ah right, so it's only sold as an extension to your existing phone contract for $10 a month, so it's designed to supplement your big phone. 

Watch that video above -  think it's great fun.


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 15, 2018)

Does this actually have any link to the old Palm?
The two "co-founders" are both ex-Samsung. There's a picture of a Palm Pilot on their "About" page but no indication that there's any link with the old Palm apart from the name.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Does this actually have any link to the old Palm?
> The two "co-founders" are both ex-Samsung. There's a picture of a Palm Pilot on their "About" page but no indication that there's any link with the old Palm apart from the name.


No actual link at all that I can see, although I'm sure they'd blather up some tosh about the 'spirit' of Palm and the fact they traditionally released small smartphones.


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 15, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> iOS is exclusively for those with deep pockets.


And the purchaser of these, it would seem:


> *Android and iOS compatible*
> 
> Whether you’re on Android or iOS, you’ll never miss a thing—even if your smartphone is at home. Most of your favorite apps are in sync so you’ll have easy access to everything you need— nothing you don’t.


https://www.palm.com/companion

Maybe they should have called it the Palm Foleo II.


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 15, 2018)

Bit of digging reveals that the major Palm investor is TCL, who own the Alcatel / Thomson mobile brands and who make Blackberry phones under license. TCL bought the Palm name from HP in 2015.

If anything, it's a rival to smart watches as a mobile companion. Bit odd really. Maybe for people who don't like using headsets?


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Bit of digging reveals that the major Palm investor is TCL, who own the Alcatel / Thomson mobile brands and who make Blackberry phones under license. TCL bought the Palm name from HP in 2015.
> 
> If anything, it's a rival to smart watches as a mobile companion. Bit odd really. Maybe for people who don't like using headsets?


I kind of get it - if i was going out clubbing I'd rather take this little fella out than a big, pocket filling  smartphone.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

Here's the promo. It's not that great


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 15, 2018)

Small phones will be back in vogue again soon, mark my words.

Theres definitely room in the market for people who don’t want to carry phablet size things around but still retain core smartphone features.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> I kind of get it - if i was going out clubbing I'd rather take this little fella out than a big, pocket filling  smartphone.


It would make your hands look big.


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## editor (Oct 15, 2018)

mrs quoad said:


> It would make your hands look big.


Better than using a big phone and looking you've got tiny Trump hands.


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## mrs quoad (Oct 15, 2018)

editor said:


> Better than using a big phone and looking you've got tiny Trump hands.


Big hands, empty pockets. 

Could be a trend


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## BristolEcho (Oct 15, 2018)

Hmm I do like it after seeing the video. I was talking to someone today though and I still see a few issues with it. I wondered if I might use it as an MP3 players, especially when going down to London for nights out.

That battery life really sucks though and it would be shit for festivals for the same reason. Add on to that it's not even cheap and it's not got much going for it sadly.

I can see why some might like it though.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 16, 2018)

Tiny Palm smartphone baffles gadget fans


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 16, 2018)

I miss the days of those tiny nokia phones which were tiny, cheap and had amazing battery life.

If they can harness enough nostalgia for ultra portable devices again, I think they could be onto a winner.


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## Chilli.s (Oct 16, 2018)

A one day battery? so half a day in the real world.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

Chilli.s said:


> A one day battery? so half a day in the real world.


This isn't supposed to replace your main phone though: it's the mini-me version of your handset that you take out for a jog or for a night on the piss.


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## Chilli.s (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> This isn't supposed to replace your main phone though: it's the mini-me version of your handset that you take out for a jog or for a night on the piss.


Ok, half a day on the piss I can manage.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

Chilli.s said:


> Ok, half a day on the piss I can manage.


Not for 24-hour speed freak sessions though. You'll need to take along a charger for those.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> This isn't supposed to replace your main phone though: it's the mini-me version of your handset that you take out for a jog or for a night on the piss.



Indeed. In a world where you might not want to carry around a £1k+ phone all the time. But you still need a phone, or even just want a second phone- this is kind of an ideal solution

This is the main issue I have with the relaunch of the 3310. I'd get one tomorrow as a second phone, but it just lacks a few few core smartphone features. Otherwise it'd be perfect for this. This Palm device isn't perfect either, but it has the right idea at least.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Indeed. In a world where you might not want to carry around a £1k+ phone all the time. But you still need a phone, or even just want a second phone- this is kind of an ideal solution
> 
> This is the main issue I have with the relaunch of the 3310. I'd get one tomorrow as a second phone, but it just lacks a few few core smartphone features. Otherwise it'd be perfect for this. This Palm device isn't perfect either, but it has the right idea at least.


It's too expensive though. If it were a hundred quid I'd be tempted.


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## keybored (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> It's too expensive though. If it were a hundred quid I'd be tempted.


These are under £100 (no contract). And have a headphone jack.
JELLY - Unihertz


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> It's too expensive though. If it were a hundred quid I'd be tempted.



You're right. This is where Nokia were best placed to make a really decent basic phone. Their current 3G 3310 was selling as low as £19.99 recently. I'm sure for a few extra, they could've incorporated e.g. whatsapp, fb messenger, maps, and email. i.e. the basics. I'd have bought that.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

keybored said:


> These are under £100 (no contract). And have a headphone jack.
> JELLY - Unihertz


But also VEH ugly!


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 16, 2018)

Looks a lot like my old orange san francisco, which seems tiny to me now, but was kind of normal size back then. I loved that little phone, once I'd cleared off all the orange bloatware. I'd definitely go for something like that again as a second phone, but it'd have to be less than £50.


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## tim (Oct 16, 2018)

Too clunky for one of those awkward Saudi Consulate visits.


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## salem (Oct 16, 2018)

I have a fairly chunky smart phone now - albeit one that cost less than this Palm thing. I took it out on the mandy last Saturday with no issues as I've done loads of times, same with gigs and I wouldn't think twice about taking it out to the pub. I'll even strap it to me to track my run (under my shirt so I don't look like a bellend) and it causes me no bother. I might think twice if I had a £1000+ iPhone but it's not the size that's an issue but the cost.

But the issue with a 'backup phone' is that you still need to piss around with changing the sim over, then your whatsapp needs to be reassigned to the new handset and all sorts of other shit isn't going to be properly set up/logged in.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

salem said:


> But the issue with a 'backup phone' is that you still need to piss around with changing the sim over,


No you don't - both phones run off the same number.


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## keybored (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> No you don't - both phones run off the same number.


Not sure how that would work in the UK unless using a virtual number.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

keybored said:


> Not sure how that would work in the UK unless using a virtual number.


Da daaa! EE's Letting You Use the Same Number Across Multiple Devices


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## keybored (Oct 16, 2018)

editor said:


> Da daaa! EE's Letting You Use the Same Number Across Multiple Devices


Not really, they have to be connected to WiFi. No good if you're going out jogging or clubbing.

ETA: Oh, and that's "exclusive to Apple devices".


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## editor (Oct 16, 2018)

keybored said:


> Not really, they have to be connected to WiFi. No good if you're going out jogging or clubbing.
> 
> ETA: Oh, and that's "exclusive to Apple devices".


Well, I imagine it'll come here soon enough.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 16, 2018)

keybored said:


> Not really, they have to be connected to WiFi. No good if you're going out jogging or clubbing.



It just says connected to the internet somehow. It doesn't mention Wifi. So as long as you've got 3G at least it should be fine.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 16, 2018)

Case in point, I was in the US a couple of weeks ago.

I took my UK work phone (Vodafone) which promtly told me that as I'm in Rest Of World (Zone 1), I'd be charged a hefty £3 per megabyte (!) while I'm there. Given that I easily go through a gigabyte a day, I decided to instead nip down to TMobile and buy a data sim which gave me 6GB of LTE speed data for $25.

The only downside is I couldn't use my UK number. I didn't mind too much because anyone important would've just whatsapp'd me or facetime or something. But still, if I had the function to accept calls from my home number via a data connection, then I'd have had everything I needed for a fraction of the ridic cost of using my home number abroad.


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## keybored (Oct 16, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> It just says connected to the internet somehow. It doesn't mention Wifi. So as long as you've got 3G at least it should be fine.





> The key point here is that this new feature is available at no extra cost, and works via Wi-Fi calling.



You wouldn't be getting 3G on a second phone without a second SIM (which would have a different number) anyway.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 16, 2018)

keybored said:


> You wouldn't be getting 3G on a second phone without a second SIM (which would have a different number) anyway.



The point is you could have any old sim, even just a data only sim (or no sim at all if on WiFi) but stay connected with one number for all.


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## keybored (Oct 16, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> The point is you could have any old sim, even just a data only sim (or no sim at all if on WiFi) but stay connected with one number for all.


So:
Only works if connected to WiFi 
Or
Might work if you pay for a data bundle on a second SIM

I think Salem's idea of just moving the SIM to the secondary handset is more sensible.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 17, 2018)

keybored said:


> So:
> Only works if connected to WiFi
> Or
> Might work if you pay for a data bundle on a second SIM
> ...



Sure everyone’s needs are different.

In the case above where I was in the US for a week and swapped my UK SIM for a local data only SIM to save literally hundreds of pounds on stupid roaming fees (and get better data speed as it's well known roaming speeds are throttled), this would've been ideal. It's also pretty good if you're in an area with dodgy phone reception so you can route calls through Wifi (though Wifi calling is nothing new, I do this on Vodafone already), but it allows you to bring other devices into the frame, including second phones, tablets, etc.


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## editor (Oct 17, 2018)

This guy is warming to the idea: 



> Which leads us back to the Palm phone. It’s not the first phone to try to suss out a happy medium between being hyper-connected and disconnected, but it may be the most promising. It’s not cutting you off from your digital self so much as it’s making it less alluring: apps run smaller and slower, it’s designed so notifications are easily muted, and it even lacks volume buttons. Using it isn’t seamless, but that’s the point.
> 
> The best feature of the Palm, though, might be turning the act of leaving the house with your phone into a decision. Do you need your main phone, with its huge screen and serious power, or would you rather take its mini-me, something that keeps you connected but doesn’t tempt you with digital delights. Just forcing you to think about it feels like progress.
> 
> Can tech save us from tech? I think it can. Because quitting anything cold turkey almost never works. Because I don’t see how you can look at how 2018 compares to 1918 and not think technology, for all its flaws, is a net benefit to society. And because smartphones — or whatever you want to call these little computers we carry around with us — isn’t something most of us can just divorce from. Ironically, being open to multiple partners might be the best way to save that relationship.



Why the Palm phone might be the perfect tech product for 2018


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## BristolEcho (Oct 17, 2018)

I think I actually want one. :/


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## keybored (Oct 17, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sure everyone’s needs are different.
> 
> In the case above where I was in the US for a week and swapped my UK SIM for a local data only SIM to save literally hundreds of pounds on stupid roaming fees (and get better data speed as it's well known roaming speeds are throttled), this would've been ideal. *It's also pretty good if you're in an area with dodgy phone reception so you can route calls through Wifi* (though Wifi calling is nothing new, I do this on Vodafone already), but it allows you to bring other devices into the frame, including second phones, tablets, etc.



This is what I have to do, where I live has no mobile service from any provider so I need to use WiFi calling at home. Both 3 (who I use now) and Orange/EE (last provider) block WiFi calling when abroad, I had to use a VPN on Orange and as for 3, they allow free calls back to the UK from most countries anyway. I also provision similar solutions for clients who need their employees to be reachable in parts of their buildings (basements etc.) where there is no mobile reception. But those clients will normally have their WiFi connected to a leased line or at least a dedicated DSL only for voice traffic, and my broadband is decent at home too. VoIP technology works, if your connection is good quality. People thinking they'll be able to make reliable calls on their second device over your average UK WiFi hotspot in a pub might be disappointed.

It's not even like it's impossible to implement a multiple SIM/one number system (ie. not bodging it by relying on VoIP) because plenty of providers across Europe (and presumably elsewhere) do offer this, it just seems no UK provider wants to.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 17, 2018)

keybored said:


> It's not even like it's impossible to implement a multiple SIM/one number system (ie. not bodging it by relying on VoIP) because plenty of providers across Europe (and presumably elsewhere) do offer this, it just seems no UK provider wants to.



I do have some sympathy with this. Not least because EE do offer a dedicated SIM for the Apple Watch which does exactly that, so why not just extend it to phones etc.

And as you say, other networks can do it, so why can't they just offer it too.

I'd rather have both options available anyway. For those who don't want to be locked to one provider only to make this happen. i.e. the above option would be no good if you wanted to operate two devices across separate networks for whatever reason.


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## Throbbing Angel (Nov 3, 2018)

Palm Phone hands-on: The supplemental smartphone

still a bit _meh_ if you ask me - costs far too much too - I'd be more interested in being able to use my older, smaller smartphone in the same way via some nifty software and eSim clone thing - my old Moto E is sitting in the glove box as a forget-me-phone if one of us leaves our phone at home inadvertently - but - another number - another SIM etc - all that



and this look is a winner innit


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## editor (Nov 3, 2018)

If they could sort out the single number eSIM thing - and the pricing - I would LOVE to take this thing out when I go out for the night rather than my pocket bulging Samsung.


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## editor (Dec 6, 2018)

The reviews are in and it's basically, shit.
Everyone loves the form factor and the _idea _of the thing, but its real performance renders it unusable. Shame.


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## skyscraper101 (Dec 6, 2018)

It's a shame but predictable.

I know what would work. A 4G capable new style Nokia 3310 (or similar) with built-in whatsapp for text and VOIP. The focus should be on battery life, a robust case with physical keys, and regular small screen for displaying essential data and text only. Just apeing a regular smartphone and making is small with basic features isn't the way IMO.


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## editor (Dec 6, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's a shame but predictable.
> 
> I know what would work. A 4G capable new style Nokia 3310 with built-in whatsapp for text and VOIP. The focus should be on battery life, a robust case with physical keys, and regular small screen for displaying essential data and text only. Just apeing a regular smartphone and making is small with basic features isn't the way IMO.


Oh I dunno. If I couldn't  do the things I want to do when I'm out (maps/FB/email/get a cab etc) I'd probably leave the Nokia at home and take my big phone out. I love the idea of a mini-me phone. But not one as crap as this one.


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## skyscraper101 (Dec 6, 2018)

editor said:


> Oh I dunno. If I couldn't  do the things I want to do when I'm out (maps/FB/email/get a cab etc) I'd probably leave the Nokia at home and take my big phone out. I love the idea of a mini-me phone. But not one as crap as this one.



OK maybe some more essential apps too, like maps and uber. But something which doesn't feel like a compromise in speed and battery. I think there really is a market for small dinky phones, but what they lack in capacity/apps, has to be made up for in speed and portability.


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## editor (Dec 18, 2018)

Surprisingly, The Register loved the Palm.

The Palm Palm: The Derringer of smartphones


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