# Shocked by ' Yuppies Out'



## mwareing1 (Apr 4, 2013)

What is the difference between this and saying ‘indians out’, or ‘blacks out’ or ‘fats people out’. No one race, social group, religeon, culture, local or visitor has the right to vandalise private property in this way…. What is wrong with a “young urban professional" moving in? I question if it was other imigrants/ race would this be exceptable or racist. But when its ‘privileged’ white people it seems ok….Brixton was gentrified long before these so called people had their strong opinions over Brixton. Times change, people change....If you don't want to embrace a changing area for the best. In my opinion there's only one thing to do and that's not dealing with your discust in this way.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 4, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> What is the difference between this and saying ‘indians out’, or ‘blacks out’ or ‘fats people out’. No one race, social group, religeon, culture, local or visitor has the right to vandalise private property in this way…. What is wrong with a “young urban professional" moving in? I question if it was other imigrants/ race would this be exceptable or racist. But when its ‘privileged’ white people it seems ok….Brixton was gentrified long before these so called people had their strong opinions over Brixton. Times change, people change....If you don't want to embrace a changing area for the best. In my opinion there's only one thing to do and that's not dealing with your discust in this way.


Shut up and fuck off while you're doing it.


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## RaverDrew (Apr 4, 2013)

NO FUCKING WAY 

Surely a troll ???


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## discokermit (Apr 4, 2013)

hello ern!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 4, 2013)

It's shocking stuff.

Next there'll be newspapers saying "kill benefits scroungers"


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## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2013)

"so called people". On your way. And try not to fuck any other communities up on your way.


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## Autochthonous1 (Apr 4, 2013)

Ok, this is a wind up, right? This is sarcasm, no, I know, it's a publicity stunt for Yuppies Out!?

Oh and "changing an area for the best'', for yuppies, it sure as fuck is not for the best for the rest of us who have been here our whole lives.

Enjoy your £16 beefburger while I get hauled out to the gutter. I won't even be able to afford a burger made of Brixon pigeon soon, in Brixton!


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## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2013)

Still, good to see manter back.


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## bi0boy (Apr 4, 2013)

It's METH LAB I reckon

He's the only one to write "discust" and "exceptable"....


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## RaverDrew (Apr 4, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Still, good to see manter back.


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## youngian (Apr 4, 2013)

"Yuppies out," where did he see that, outside Rick Astley's last concert at the Brixton Academy?


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## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2013)

youngian said:


> "Yuppies out," where did he see that, outside Rick Astley's last concert at the Brixton Academy?


Some foxton's place


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## mwareing1 (Apr 4, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Ok, this is a wind up, right? This is sarcasm, no, I know, it's a publicity stunt for Yuppies Out!?
> 
> Oh and "changing an area for the best'', for yuppies, it sure as fuck is not for the best for the rest of us who have been here our whole lives.
> 
> Enjoy your £16 beefburger while I get hauled out to the gutter. I won't even be able to afford a burger made of Brixon pigeon soon, in Brixton!



You live in Zone 2! Probably only one of the last areas that is so called reasonable for people to move in to the area. Of course it's going to change. Look around you and smell the Starbucks coffee. You might of lived in Brixton your whole life. So what? You don't have to eat the burgers, smell the coffee, drink the beer. No-one wants to live in an area of crime. No-one wants to bring up children around drug dealers, piss, and nasty gangs..You are deluded if you want this old Brixton back.


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## zenie (Apr 4, 2013)

*pulls up deckchair*


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## JTG (Apr 4, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Still, good to see manter back.


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## dessiato (Apr 4, 2013)

zenie said:


> *pulls up deckchair*


I get the popcorn franchise though!


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## frogwoman (Apr 4, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> You live in Zone 2! Probably only one of the last areas that is so called  supposedly reasonable for people to move in to the area. Of course it's going to change. Look around you and smell the Starbucks coffee. You might of have lived in Brixton your whole life. So what? You don't have to eat the burgers, smell the coffee, or drink the beer. No-one wants to live in an area full of crime. No-one wants to bring up children around drug dealers, piss, and nasty gangs.. You are deluded if you want this old Brixton back.


 
I don't usually comment on people's spelling and grammar but if you're gonna slag off an entire area and complain about people attacking yuppies then you deserve it lol


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## kittyP (Apr 4, 2013)

dessiato said:


> I get the popcorn franchise though!


 
Passes zenie her own from home in a carrier bag


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## fractionMan (Apr 4, 2013)

It's a bit early for the moron of the year award.


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## Riklet (Apr 4, 2013)

(((the oppressed  young white aspiring urban professionals)))


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## JTG (Apr 4, 2013)

Riklet said:


> (((the oppressed young white aspiring urban professionals)))


last acceptable form of racism


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## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2013)

...and posh actors from Harrow and eton.


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## ChrisFilter (Apr 4, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> You live in Zone 2! Probably only one of the last areas that is so called reasonable for people to move in to the area. Of course it's going to change. Look around you and smell the Starbucks coffee. You might of lived in Brixton your whole life. So what? You don't have to eat the burgers, smell the coffee, drink the beer. No-one wants to live in an area of crime. No-one wants to bring up children around drug dealers, piss, and nasty gangs..You are deluded if you want this old Brixton back.



Brixton? Reasonable? Fuck off.


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## Riklet (Apr 4, 2013)

they'll be having a go at joanna lumley next, the rotters!


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## RaverDrew (Apr 5, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> You live in Zone 2! Probably only one of the last areas that is so called reasonable for people to move in to the area. Of course it's going to change. Look around you and smell the Starbucks coffee. You might of lived in Brixton your whole life. So what? You don't have to eat the burgers, smell the coffee, drink the beer. No-one wants to live in an area of crime. No-one wants to bring up children around drug dealers, piss, and nasty gangs..You are deluded if you want this old Brixton back.


 
Hell of a lot of assumptions you're making there...


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## AKA pseudonym (Apr 5, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> It's shocking stuff.
> 
> Next there'll be newspapers saying "kill benefits scroungers"


or governments who actually do... oh


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## T & P (Apr 5, 2013)

dessiato said:


> I get the popcorn franchise though!


 Surely cupcakes?


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## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2013)

this one's quite special, can we keep it?

i promise to clean the cage out this time...


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## xenon (Apr 5, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> What is the difference between this and saying ‘indians out’, or ‘blacks out’ or ‘fats people out’. No one race, social group, religeon, culture, local or visitor has the right to vandalise private property in this way…. What is wrong with a “young urban professional" moving in? I question if it was other imigrants/ race would this be exceptable or racist. But when its ‘privileged’ white people it seems ok….Brixton was gentrified long before these so called people had their strong opinions over Brixton. Times change, people change....If you don't want to embrace a changing area for the best. In my opinion there's only one thing to do and that's not dealing with your discust in this way.



Have you ever read a book? I mean you seem  a bit simple and that. No offence.


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## RaverDrew (Apr 5, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> I won't even be able to afford a burger made of Brixon pigeon soon, in Brixton!



Oh... you must be that bag lady I've seen on Brixton Square barbecuing the pigeons with reggae reggae sauce


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## editor (Apr 5, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Shut up and fuck off while you're doing it.


Post of the week.


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## DietCokeGirl (Apr 5, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> You live in Zone 2!.....You might of lived in Brixton your whole life. So what? You don't have to eat the burgers, smell the coffee, drink the beer....


 
But you do have to pay the rent to live, which is becoming increasingly difficult with the market rates being increased by more affluent people  pushing the value up. You also have to shop, which luckily there is still a great market to do so in, but what used to be affordable grocery shops getting turned into expensive burger places again makes that harder.

You might have lived here all your life, which means your family, kids schools, friends, support networks, etc. are all here - being uprooted from all your entire life because you've been priced out is pretty traumatic. It's a lot more affecting for families who're well established in the area than the transient young professional renters.


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## shygirl (Apr 5, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> What is the difference between this and saying ‘indians out’, or ‘blacks out’ or ‘fats people out’. No one race, social group, religeon, culture, local or visitor has the right to vandalise private property in this way…. What is wrong with a “young urban professional" moving in? I question if it was other imigrants/ race would this be exceptable or racist. But when its ‘privileged’ white people it seems ok….Brixton was gentrified long before these so called people had their strong opinions over Brixton. Times change, people change....If you don't want to embrace a changing area for the best. In my opinion there's only one thing to do and that's not dealing with your discust in this way.


 
How dare you compare the evil that is racism to resentment against rich people for pricing the poor out of their homes?  Rich people have very, very thick skins, they can take it, been taking from time..


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## JTG (Apr 5, 2013)

The yuppie classes who are used to moving cities (hometown > London), then London suburb (every six months as a student/young professional), then wherever's trendy/'affordable' (to them) when they come to buy, have no concept of why people who can no longer afford to live somewhere would be so upset about being forced out of a district they've lived in their entire lives.

They just don't get it. At all.


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## Tankus (Apr 5, 2013)

Maybe they do get it ...and they are the head of_ the_ curve ......into a post capitalistic society .....where personal ownership of _things ,places, or boundaries_ no longer have such a significance .........


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## leanderman (Apr 5, 2013)

It's simplistic to blame rich people for pushing up prices. 

It's also low interest rates and insufficient housebuilding.


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## fractionMan (Apr 5, 2013)

You never hear anyone say "what we need is more yuppies round here".  Funny that.


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## tony.c (Apr 5, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Some foxton's place


*'Class war' breaking out in Brixton over opening of new Foxtons estate agent*
http//www.standard.co.uk/news/london/class-war-breaking-out-in-brixton-over-opening-of-new-foxtons-estate-agent-8559284.html


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## Ms Ordinary (Apr 5, 2013)

fractionMan said:


> You never hear anyone say "what we need is more yuppies round here". Funny that.


 
Except other yuppies, maybe.

You do get yuppies / gentrifiers thinking & saying that they are the one's who have made an area 'better' just by moving in on it. I noticed that creeping in to the replies on the Brixton Blog article about the Foxtons graffitti.

It's incredibly insulting to people who've lived here for years & worked really hard to improve things and they or their families are then priced out. I don't include myself in that - I'm a blow-in compared to them - but people I know.


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## Heligoland (Apr 5, 2013)

So, the Tories' divide-and-rule policy is working well on here then. Nice to see the Standard being invoked too, cashing in on this sad state of affairs - such responsible, reputable journalism! So glad you all seem to subscribe to its views.


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## butchersapron (Apr 5, 2013)

Heligoland said:


> So, the Tories' divide-and-rule policy is working well on here then. Nice to see the Standard being invoked too, cashing in on this sad state of affairs - such responsible, reputable journalism! So glad you all seem to subscribe to its views.


wtf are you on about?


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## Virtual Blue (Apr 5, 2013)

i not heard the term 'yuppie' since the 80s..


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 5, 2013)

Ms Ordinary said:


> Except other yuppies, maybe.
> 
> You do get yuppies / gentrifiers thinking & saying that they are the one's who have made an area 'better' just by moving in on it. I noticed that creeping in to the replies on the Brixton Blog article about the Foxtons graffitti.
> 
> It's incredibly insulting to people who've lived here for years & worked really hard to improve things and they or their families are then priced out. I don't include myself in that - I'm a blow-in compared to them - but people I know.


 
Some of them are probably the same types who went backpacking in SE Asia, visiting hill tribes and undiscovered places, were proud they lived on pennies and supported the locals, told everyone of this little undiscovered "secret" and then moaned when they became touristy and the big hotels moved in and package tourists arrived


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## Greebo (Apr 5, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Still, good to see manter back.


No way; even if she were to come back under another name, her spelling's better than that!


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## Rushy (Apr 5, 2013)

If anyone has a secret stash of electric fan heaters, now is the time to offload them. Brixton appears to be sold out - even Currys and Argos.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 5, 2013)

Weather's picking up in a couple of days so they need to be fast


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## TitanSound (Apr 5, 2013)

What happened with Manter?


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## CH1 (Apr 5, 2013)

Someone's daubed "Yuppies out" on the SOLD sign outside the house next door.  If only it were a yuppy issue in this case. Hard nosed landlords would be nearer the mark IMHO, notwithstanding the estate agent's effusive website (Atkinson McLeod in this case).


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## editor (Apr 5, 2013)

CH1 said:


> Someone's daubed "Yuppies out" on the SOLD sign outside the house next door.


Picture, if you please!


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## Rushy (Apr 5, 2013)

Rushy said:


> If anyone has a secret stash of electric fan heaters, now is the time to offload them. Brixton appears to be sold out - even Currys and Argos.


Oops. Just realised I posted in wrong thread.


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## Rushy (Apr 5, 2013)

Rushy said:


> If anyone has a secret stash of electric fan heaters, now is the time to offload them. Brixton appears to be sold out - even Currys and Argos.





Rushy said:


> Oops. Just realised I posted in wrong thread.


On second thoughts - maybe yuppies have bought all the fan heaters.
Naughty yuppies.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 5, 2013)

Rushy said:


> On second thoughts - maybe yuppies have bought all the fan heaters.
> Naughty yuppies.


 
Bastards.  They should leave the cheap ones for the poor people and buy expensive Dyson stuff


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## Rushy (Apr 5, 2013)

Rushy said:


> If anyone has a secret stash of electric fan heaters, now is the time to offload them. Brixton appears to be sold out - even Currys and Argos.





Rushy said:


> Oops. Just realised I posted in wrong thread.





Rushy said:


> On second thoughts - maybe yuppies have bought all the fan heaters.
> Naughty yuppies.


Don't mind me. Just happily chatting to myself.

I think I might even 'like' my own post, if that's possible.


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## Rushy (Apr 5, 2013)

Rushy said:


> If anyone has a secret stash of electric fan heaters, now is the time to offload them. Brixton appears to be sold out - even Currys and Argos.





Rushy said:


> Oops. Just realised I posted in wrong thread.





Rushy said:


> On second thoughts - maybe yuppies have bought all the fan heaters.
> Naughty yuppies.





Rushy said:


> Don't mind me. Just happily chatting to myself.
> 
> I think I might even 'like' my own post, if that's possible.


Apparently not.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 5, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Apparently not.


 
I liked you on your behalf.  I'm now giving you another one, but this one's a sympathy one


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## kittyP (Apr 5, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> Oh... you must be that bag lady I've seen on Brixton Square barbecuing the pigeons with reggae reggae sauce


 
You two leave the pigeons out of this!  Or I'll be after you.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 5, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> What is the difference between this and saying ‘indians out’, or ‘blacks out’ or ‘fats people out’. No one race, social group, religeon, culture, local or visitor has the right to vandalise private property in this way…. What is wrong with a “young urban professional" moving in? I question if it was other imigrants/ race would this be exceptable or racist. But when its ‘privileged’ white people it seems ok….Brixton was gentrified long before these so called people had their strong opinions over Brixton. Times change, people change....If you don't want to embrace a changing area for the best. In my opinion there's only one thing to do and that's not dealing with your discust in this way.



You waited from 2007 to say this?

I call troll. Whoever it is will already be known here.


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## salem (Apr 5, 2013)

I know 'urbanites' and have been to 'urban' meets with them over the past decade. Most of the people I met at them were white, middle class professionals often from outside London and more often than not from outside Brixton. They voted Lib Dem (it must be a few years since I've been to a meet  ), maybe had dreadlocks or worked in the public sector and so weren't quite the caricature of a 80s yuppie off the telly. But by god they were yuppies by any logical definition and they brought change to Brixton.

Of course they are getting older now, looking to settle down, maybe purchase a home (a few high profile Urbs' already have). No longer the 'young' professionals themselves anymore! That's gone to a new generation who as far as I can see are fundamentally no different to those 'urbanites' I've met over the years.

You can't just pull up the ladder now you've established yourselves!


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## CH1 (Apr 5, 2013)

editor said:


> Picture, if you please!


Will this do?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 5, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> Oh... you must be that bag lady I've seen on Brixton Square barbecuing the pigeons with reggae reggae sauce


Don't knock it till you've tried it


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## Chilavert (Apr 5, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Don't mind me. Just happily chatting to myself.
> 
> I think I might even 'like' my own post, if that's possible.


Here's a sympathy like for you Rushy.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 5, 2013)

Heligoland said:


> So, the Tories' divide-and-rule policy is working well on here then. Nice to see the Standard being invoked too, cashing in on this sad state of affairs - such responsible, reputable journalism! So glad you all seem to subscribe to its views.


Why don't you go from being 'new member' to being 'ex-member' in one easy step? Fuck off.


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## 299 old timer (Apr 5, 2013)

I don't think it has reached Catford yet.
So, on a sliding scale, how long does on have had to live in Brixton to become a full on nimby Brixtonian? I remember the fuss about Sudbourne School, what, in the late 90s?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 5, 2013)

salem said:


> I know 'urbanites' and have been to 'urban' meets with them over the past decade. Most of the people I met at them were white, middle class professionals often from outside London and more often than not from outside Brixton. They voted Lib Dem (it must be a few years since I've been to a meet  ), maybe had dreadlocks or worked in the public sector and so weren't quite the caricature of a 80s yuppie off the telly. But by god they were yuppies by any logical definition and they brought change to Brixton.
> 
> Of course they are getting older now, looking to settle down, maybe purchase a home (a few high profile Urbs' already have). No longer the 'young' professionals themselves anymore! That's gone to a new generation who as far as I can see are fundamentally no different to those 'urbanites' I've met over the years.
> 
> You can't just pull up the ladder now you've established yourselves!


 
Oooh controversial.

TBH I think the 'uncomfortable truth' () as far as this place goes is that most people tend to fall somewhere in between the very simplistic stools of poor locals and rich incomers.


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## davidaheath (Apr 5, 2013)

VICE published a fairly interesting and relevant article on their website this morning:
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/berlins-war-against-gentrification?utm_source=vicetwitter

*BERLINERS ARE FIGHTING A WAR AGAINST HIPSTER-LED GENTRIFICATION*


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## JTG (Apr 5, 2013)

salem said:


> I know 'urbanites' and have been to 'urban' meets with them over the past decade. Most of the people I met at them were white, middle class professionals often from outside London and more often than not from outside Brixton. They voted Lib Dem (it must be a few years since I've been to a meet  ), maybe had dreadlocks or worked in the public sector and so weren't quite the caricature of a 80s yuppie off the telly. But by god they were yuppies by any logical definition and they brought change to Brixton.
> 
> Of course they are getting older now, looking to settle down, maybe purchase a home (a few high profile Urbs' already have). No longer the 'young' professionals themselves anymore! That's gone to a new generation who as far as I can see are fundamentally no different to those 'urbanites' I've met over the years.
> 
> You can't just pull up the ladder now you've established yourselves!


See your point but not sure it applies universally by any stretch of the imagination. I've socialised a little over the last ten years too and it's fair to say that while some people may fit some of that description, none that I know fit all of it and most don't match up at all.

Cheers though
Jittug (white, dreadlocks... not really sure I fit any of the rest though  )


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## Rushy (Apr 5, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Oooh controversial.
> 
> TBH I think the 'uncomfortable truth' () as far as this place goes is that most people tend to fall somewhere in between the very simplistic stools of poor locals and rich incomers.


 
Based on the young incomers I've met lately, many of them fall in between too. Yes there are some high flyers but a few examples of others I've met lately include nurses, council employees such as planners and legal temps, a policeman, a temping secretary, PE teacher, a pub refrigerator salesman... Hardly high income, elitist jobs. Just wanting to be where they think the buzz is and wanting it enough to pay huge proportions of their very normal incomes on rent. Can't blame them for that. I just wish they'd conceal their excitement about being here by shrieking a little less at night.


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## Ax^ (Apr 5, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> What happened with Manter?



Been pondering that myself was she ran off the board for vandalism at the albert


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Don't knock it till you've tried it


 
pigeon or Reggae Reggae sauce?


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> What is the difference between this and saying ‘indians out’, or ‘blacks out’ or ‘fats people out’. No one race, social group, religeon, culture, local or visitor has the right to vandalise private property in this way…. What is wrong with a “young urban professional" moving in? I question if it was other imigrants/ race would this be exceptable or racist. But when its ‘privileged’ white people it seems ok….Brixton was gentrified long before these so called people had their strong opinions over Brixton. Times change, people change....If you don't want to embrace a changing area for the best. In my opinion there's only one thing to do and that's not dealing with your discust in this way.


There's extensive discussion of this point on the Foxton's thread - page 18 onwards in particular.

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ed-new-foxtons-office-on-brixton-road.303121/


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 5, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> NO FUCKING WAY
> 
> Surely a troll ???





discokermit said:


> hello ern!





bi0boy said:


> It's METH LAB I reckon
> 
> He's the only one to write "discust" and "exceptable"....


Neither of those I'm afraid.... mwarering1 has been around for a while. Genuine local poster. (I don't know them - I just have a good memory!)


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## Pickman's model (Apr 5, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> pigeon or Reggae Reggae sauce?


either suits me.


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## Greebo (Apr 5, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> What happened with Manter?


AFAIK still alive and well, but taking a bit of a break from here for the time being.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> What is the difference between this and saying ‘indians out’, or ‘blacks out’ or ‘fats people out’. No one race, social group, religeon, culture, local or visitor has the right to vandalise private property in this way…. What is wrong with a “young urban professional" moving in? I question if it was other imigrants/ race would this be exceptable or racist. But when its ‘privileged’ white people it seems ok….Brixton was gentrified long before these so called people had their strong opinions over Brixton. Times change, people change....If you don't want to embrace a changing area for the best. In my opinion there's only one thing to do and that's not dealing with your discust in this way.


 
Like you, the answer is simple.
"Indians" and "black people" are what they are. Their skin colour is part of their biology. People *choose* to be Yuppies, and to live up to the stereotype.
And you're right, no-one has the right to vandalise private property in that way, and yet they're perfectly entitled to feel that Foxtons are contributing to the social homogenisation of their area into a Yuppie enclave.
There's no such thing as "racism" against the privileged (Yuppies aren't just "whites", you know!), and Brixton has always been socially heterogeous (that means it's always had a broad social mix), *not* it's only become what could be described as "gentrified" in arguably the last 8-10 years.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2013)

davidaheath said:


> VICE published a fairly interesting and relevant article on their website this morning:
> http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/berlins-war-against-gentrification?utm_source=vicetwitter
> 
> *BERLINERS ARE FIGHTING A WAR AGAINST HIPSTER-LED GENTRIFICATION*


 
Made me laugh. I mean it's only about 12 years since Berliners started getting militant about gentrification.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2013)

Heligoland said:


> So, the Tories' divide-and-rule policy is working well on here then. Nice to see the Standard being invoked too, cashing in on this sad state of affairs - such responsible, reputable journalism! So glad you all seem to subscribe to its views.


 
Have you actually read the thread?


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Don't knock it till you've tried it


 
The bag lady or the pigeon?


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2013)

Virtual Blue said:


> i not heard the term 'yuppie' since the 80s..


 
Been doing bird 'ave you, my son?


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2013)

kittyP said:


> You two leave the pigeons out of this!  Or I'll be after you.


 
There's no end to the perversions of those two!


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## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

shygirl said:


> How dare you compare the evil that is racism to resentment against rich people for pricing the poor out of their homes?  Rich people have very, very thick skins, they can take it, been taking from time..


So tell me what you class as rich??... If you were rich would you choose Mayfair or Brixton?????? Hello


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 6, 2013)

I wouldn't choose Mayfair 'cos it's full of knobs


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## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

DietCokeGirl said:


> But you do have to pay the rent to live, which is becoming increasingly difficult with the market rates being increased by more affluent people  pushing the value up. You also have to shop, which luckily there is still a great market to do so in, but what used to be affordable grocery shops getting turned into expensive burger places again makes that harder.
> 
> You might have lived here all your life, which means your family, kids schools, friends, support networks, etc. are all here - being uprooted from all your entire life because you've been priced out is pretty traumatic. It's a lot more affecting for families who're well established in the area than the transient young professional renters.


I honestly can't believe you you think like this....you are in Zone 2!! You are 15 minutes from Oxford Street on the Tube. Affluent areas are 2 mins away ie Balham, Clapham. Or do you turn a blind eye to this? It was going to happen sometime. All this talk is nothing compared to areas that have changed in the past 5 years. Why don't you have a look on Right move and search shoreditch and Hackney and look at those rental prices. Brixton is cheap in comparison.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Bastards.  They should leave the cheap ones for the poor people and buy expensive Dyson stuff


Minnie do you honestly think high earners are moving to Brixton....I love how you think a rich person buys a Dyson. It's sweet. For example. A rich person gets their luggage sent by courior to a resort before they arrive. Everything is unpacked and ready for their vacation. The so called rich wouldn't know what a Dyson was never mind how to use one!


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Minnie do you honestly think high earners are moving to Brixton....I love how you think a rich person buys a Dyson. It's sweet. For example. A rich person gets their luggage sent by courior to a resort before they arrive. Everything is unpacked and ready for their vacation. The so called rich wouldn't know what a Dyson was never mind how to use one!


what centile of annual income would you classify as rich?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> what centile of annual income would you classify as rich?


 
at the moment, anything more than I'm on!


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> what centile of annual income would you classify as rich?


Yes I'm interested by all you negative people thinking that the affluent rich are moving in and changing your Brixton. What do you class as rich?


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Yes I'm interested by all you negative people thinking that the affluent rich are moving in and changing your Brixton. What do you class as rich?


well, i asked you first.  but since you ask, i reckon top 25% of people would be a nice round number. allows for a kind of diamond-shaped distribution.  however i'm not a sociologist or an economist - there might be a proper definition.   Now i'd like to know what your definition is.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't think the rich are moving here! Media types maybe or people that want to live in Clapham or Balham but can't afford it. People now feel Brixton is an ok place to live. In my mind this is not classed as a Yuppie. Why don't you ask the people that have lived here for a considerable amount of time what they class as rich? As I'm sure these young professionals arnt earning 6 figures. Yes they can afford an expensive burger.......I question is this a threat?


----------



## Gingerman (Apr 6, 2013)

tony.c said:


> *'Class war' breaking out in Brixton over opening of new Foxtons estate agent*
> http//www.standard.co.uk/news/london/class-war-breaking-out-in-brixton-over-opening-of-new-foxtons-estate-agent-8559284.html


 Some of the comments under that article


----------



## Kanda (Apr 6, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Based on the young incomers I've met lately, many of them fall in between too. Yes there are some high flyers but a few examples of others I've met lately include nurses, council employees such as planners and legal temps, a policeman, a temping secretary, PE teacher, a pub refrigerator salesman... Hardly high income, elitist jobs. Just wanting to be where they think the buzz is and wanting it enough to pay huge proportions of their very normal incomes on rent. Can't blame them for that. I just wish they'd conceal their excitement about being here by shrieking a little less at night.


 
Fact is.. Brixton is/was affordable. The people I sold to last year wanted to live in Clapham but it is too expensive. They got double the square footage for their money and it's less than a mile away. I don't think it's 'lets move to Brixton it's trendy etc' it's more what people can afford. This will continue unless there is a housing crash (that never happened did it!) or something is done about housing in London. Exactly the same thing is happening all over London.

I'm in the process of buying a 2 bed flat in Brixton, 170k.... where else in zone 2 can you still do this??


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 6, 2013)

*reels of list of shitholes*


----------



## newbie (Apr 6, 2013)

Has Balham really become as expensive and desirable as Cla'am while I've continued to ignore it?  Round Nightingale Square has always been a bit posh but otherwise, well, why?


----------



## leanderman (Apr 6, 2013)

Because we live in Brixton we notice rising house prices and rents in Brixton.

But it's the same or worse just about everywhere else.

East Dulwich and Balham are horribly expensive now. Clapham is mad.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2013)

newbie said:


> Has Balham really become as expensive and desirable as Cla'am while I've continued to ignore it? Round Nightingale Square has always been a bit posh but otherwise, well, why?


 
It got gentrified really quickly in the space of a few years, pure clapham overspill.


----------



## nagapie (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Yes I'm interested by all you negative people thinking that the affluent rich are moving in and changing your Brixton. What do you class as rich?


 
The SUPER rich are not moving here but the rich are. My friends just sold their house in Brixton to people priced out of Pimlico for £850, 000. You have to be pretty well off to afford that.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Apr 6, 2013)

nagapie said:


> The SUPER rich are not moving here but the rich are. My friends just sold their house in Brixton to people priced out of Pimlico for £850, 000. You have to be pretty well off to afford that.


After reading this I've had an instructive 5 minutes looking at SW2 houses on rightmove. Blimey. The house we managed to get last year is very firmly on the cheapest page (both in price paid and also there's a similar house on our street on there), and I wouldn't have called _that_ cheap in the grand scheme of things


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 6, 2013)

nagapie said:


> The SUPER rich are not moving here but the rich are. My friends just sold their house in Brixton to people priced out of Pimlico for £850, 000. You have to be pretty well off to afford that.


I'd be quite happy to be priced out if I was given 850k.


----------



## nagapie (Apr 6, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> I'd be quite happy to be priced out if I was given 850k.


 
They were, they moved to Barcelona. However I have a house that is increasing in value and thought about selling it but couldn't think of anywhere else I'd like to live. I never thought of Brixton as somewhere I was just passing through, having all my friends priced out recently has made me start to consider leaving however.


----------



## leanderman (Apr 6, 2013)

nagapie said:


> They were, they moved to Barcelona. However I have a house that is increasing in value and thought about selling it but couldn't think of anywhere else I'd like to live. I never thought of Brixton as somewhere I was just passing through, having all my friends priced out recently has made me start to consider leaving however.




Luckily we want to stay put because, as prices rise, bigger properties once almost within our reach no longer are.

It's another reason why price rises help very few people.


----------



## leanderman (Apr 6, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> I'd be quite happy to be priced out if I was given 850k.



A few presumed Windrush generationers have cashed out in our street in the past 12 months.

At nice prices - and, in one case, with carrier bags of cash on the side.


----------



## Pat24 (Apr 6, 2013)

The flat next door is going for 430k (guide price, whatever that means in estate agent land) it's got two bedrooms and a roof terrace. Less than a year ago,we were looking at similar properties in the area and the price range was between 299,999-320,000k- which was still out of our budget for about 5k.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> I honestly can't believe you you think like this....you are in Zone 2!! You are 15 minutes from Oxford Street on the Tube. Affluent areas are 2 mins away ie Balham, Clapham. Or do you turn a blind eye to this? It was going to happen sometime. All this talk is nothing compared to areas that have changed in the past 5 years. Why don't you have a look on Right move and search shoreditch and Hackney and look at those rental prices. Brixton is cheap in comparison.


Um, actually I'm up the hill in zone 3, not 2.  And you can forget using the tube if on a low income - it pushes up the daily oyster cap by more than I often can afford.  Therefore Oxford Street is the best part of an hour away by bus (unless you reach the stop just as the 3 does).  Not to mention needing a bus or a long walk to reach Brixton tube even when I can afford it.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Um, actually I'm up the hill in zone 3, not 2.  And you can forget using the tube if on a low income - it pushes up the daily oyster cap by more than I often can afford.  Therefore Oxford Street is the best part of an hour away by bus (unless you reach the stop just as the 3 does).  Not to mention needing a bus or a long walk to reach Brixton tube even when I can afford it.


Point taken, but we are talking about the desirability of Brixton.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Point taken, but we are talking about the desirability of Brixton.


Sweetie, I'm in South Brixton, on one of the more desirable estates.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> I don't think the rich are moving here! Media types maybe or people that want to live in Clapham or Balham but can't afford it. People now feel Brixton is an ok place to live. In my mind this is not classed as a Yuppie. Why don't you ask the people that have lived here for a considerable amount of time what they class as rich? As I'm sure these young professionals arnt earning 6 figures. Yes they can afford an expensive burger.......I question is this a threat?


so your definition of rich is people earning £100,000+, yes?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 6, 2013)

Basically anyone earning over £40k is in the top 10%. Around half of people earn under £20k.

E2A - that graph is a few years old...but the distribution is essentially the same


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2013)

newbie said:


> Has Balham really become as expensive and desirable as Cla'am while I've continued to ignore it? Round Nightingale Square has always been a bit posh but otherwise, well, why?


Balham is much nicer than clapham.  Quieter, smaller, less of a saturday night zoo.  Central Clapham feels like  a posh central croydon sometimes.  Balham is more like east dulwich.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


>


Tshhh!  I was trying to bring him to that point slowly!


----------



## cesare (Apr 6, 2013)

What year is that, BH? ^


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 6, 2013)

cesare said:


> What year is that, BH? ^


2006 - trying to find a more up to date one


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> Tshhh! I was trying to bring him to that point slowly!


sorry!


----------



## cesare (Apr 6, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> 2006 - trying to find a more up to date one


Ta


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 6, 2013)

this is from 2011


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 6, 2013)

And beware, benefits is added in here so does not = wage, and this ignores wealth., i.e it bumps up the lower incomes quite significantly.

Same years:


----------



## newbie (Apr 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> Balham is much nicer than clapham. Quieter, smaller, less of a saturday night zoo. Central Clapham feels like a posh central croydon sometimes. Balham is more like east dulwich.


People seem to like the saturday night zoo.  Isn't that one of the reasons Brixton has been so, erm, _successful_ recently? 

Balham though... the Northern line, surrounded by green space but without one to call its own, indoor market gone and the outdoor one withered, great fat main road up the middle and dull architecture, in fact so dull they knocked half of the middle down to make carparks.  Bout the best I can think of for it is it's not far from Tooting.

and no, I'm not being entirely serious, I used to spend a lot of time there, but I am a bit surprised to hear it mentioned in the same breath as 'estate agent', 'Clapham' and 'Dulwich'. 

I spose I should have realised when they turned the Safeways into a Waitrose.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 6, 2013)

newbie said:


> People seem to like the saturday night zoo. Isn't that one of the reasons Brixton has been so, erm, _successful_ recently?
> 
> Balham though... the Northern line, surrounded by green space but without one to call its own, indoor market gone and the outdoor one withered, great fat main road up the middle and dull architecture, in fact so dull they knocked half of the middle down to make carparks. Bout the best I can think of for it is it's not far from Tooting.
> 
> ...


i'd agree with some of that, but at te clapham end there's a tonne of victorian housing sock, and then for first time singletons there's du caine court, which is gorgeoous (and listed, i believe) plus at least one other art deco mansion block (moira court). yes it has baham high road but it doesn't have the godawful jams of the south circular.  

brixton obv also has the nightime zoo...  but i was explaining why someone might prefer balham to clapham.  balham (which also has bars, restaurants etc) is like the herne hill to clapham's brixton.  more grown up.  smaller.  'nicer', and a tiny bit cheaper.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2013)

newbie said:


> I spose I should have realised when they turned the Safeways into a Waitrose.


 
It was when Iceland became that organic supermarket 'As Nature Intended'


----------



## RaverDrew (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Yes I'm interested by all you negative people thinking that the affluent rich are moving in and changing your Brixton. What do you class as rich?


 
It's really not a case of being rich, it's about the native people who were born and raised in the area being forced out by those with more money than them, and in Brixton's case this is tantamount to ethnic cleansing.

In my case, I've been priced out of the place I've called home ALL my life. So why are you so shocked that this provokes a violent reaction from some ?


----------



## leanderman (Apr 6, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> It's really not a case of being rich, it's about the native people who were born and raised in the area being forced out by those with more money than them, and in Brixton's case this is tantamount to ethnic cleansing.
> 
> In my case, I've been priced out of the place I've called home ALL my life. So why are you so shocked that this provokes a violent reaction from some ?



Even though it is not solely the fault of the rich for this situation, it's impossible not to sympathise and agree with this statement


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> at te clapham end there's a tonne of victorian housing sock, .


 
As illustrated below.


----------



## 299 old timer (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't know why why all the nimbys on here think that Brixton is a special case, this shit has been happening all over. Ask folk in Dalston, Stoke Newington, East Dulwich, ecetera ecetera.
The clincher for me is this:

http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?key...word&search_type=SS&sold=1&submit_type=search

I nearly fell off my chair! As a kid we used to play round the back of this now ex council office. It never had much use back in those days (1970s), I wonder how much the council got from the developer? New Park Road is a poor shadow of it's former self. Property prices are fucking ridiculous, but it is the same all over.


----------



## CH1 (Apr 6, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?key...word&search_type=SS&sold=1&submit_type=search
> I nearly fell off my chair! As a kid we used to play round the back of this now ex Council office. It never had much use back in those days (1970s),*Q:  I wonder how much the council got from the developer?* New Park Road is a poor shadow of it's former self. Property prices are fucking ridiculous, but it is he same all over.


A: I believe (though not absolutely certain) that Courtenay House was built by a developer originally for leasing to Lambeth Planning department. *So Lambeth may have even paid compensation for breaking their lease* when they were down-sizing in the 1990s, thus releasing the block for residential exploitation.
Courtenay House has been residential for some years now. The Zoopla info is a bit ambiguous, but I reckon flats were being sold off in this block from 2009.
There are parallels but also differences with Barratts/Brixton Square here.
This is a gated development in close proximity to high density public housing (Clapham Park Estate).
I found a property tribunal case here feat. Metropolitan Housing Trust and Laxcon Development Ltd (freeholder). The development had a quota of shared ownership housing to be managed by Metropolitan as leaseholders. No mention made in the tribunal case of social housing units BTW.
Tempted to investigate further (planning must have a big report on this) time permitting.

Developer and estate agents have cashed in splendidly, notwithstanding a financial crash and austerity for us plebs! Looks like Lambeth Council may even have added to the developer's profit, rather than getting anything out of it.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 6, 2013)

The houses in my old street (Victorian terrace ) are going at auction for 705-730k they've been squats for thirty years or more so with refurb costs you won't get much change out of a million.Don't think they're being bought by "strivers" more out and out thieves (i.e. bankers,city types et al).


----------



## newbie (Apr 6, 2013)

NPR, gateway to Balham 

Aye, it's happening all over (the Standard said yesterday that central London rents are now over £5,000 pcm!).  

One of the reasons I like living in Brixton is I don't feel like the only one who strongly resents it happening here.


----------



## newbie (Apr 6, 2013)

peterkro said:


> The houses in my old street (Victorian terrace ) are going at auction for 705-730k they've been squats for thirty years or more so with refurb costs you won't get much change out of a million.Don't think they're being bought by "strivers" more out and out thieves (i.e. bankers,city types et al).


omg


----------



## peterkro (Apr 6, 2013)

newbie said:


> omg


Villa road btw.


----------



## newbie (Apr 6, 2013)

yeah, I twigged, googled and tingled at one of the numbers, where I used to spend a lot of time.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 6, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Even though it is not solely the fault of the rich for this situation....


The entire economic situation we live in - of which Brixton is a symptom - is the fault of the rich. Everything.


----------



## leanderman (Apr 6, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The entire economic situation we live in - of which Brixton is a symptom - is the fault of the rich. Everything.



I thought someone would say that!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 6, 2013)

.


----------



## 1%er (Apr 6, 2013)

First they came for the yuppies, but I was not a yuppie..........................


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I thought someone would say that!


 
It wasn't single mums or people in council houses with spare bedrooms who fucked the global economy despite what those in power claim.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Sorry guys.... If this is not gentrification at its best then what is...Im sorry to say the rich have been here before!!.Maybe we are just going round in circles.....At the end of the day we all like Brixton and that's why we are a member of this blog.


----------



## 1%er (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Sorry guys.... If this is not gentrification at its best then what is...Im sorry to say the rich have been here before!!.Maybe we are just going round in circles.....At the end of the day we all like Brixton and that's why we are a member of this blog.


Bloody Zebras coming over here nicking our horses jobs


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Sorry guys.... If this is not gentrification at its best then what is...Im sorry to say the rich have been here before!!.Maybe we are just going round in circles.....At the end of the day we all like Brixton and that's why we are a member of this blog.


 
Are you saying zebras are gentrifiers?


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Yes I saw one on Acre Lane today


----------



## kittyP (Apr 6, 2013)

I do understand that it is happening everywhere, not just Brixton, but it is especially upsetting here because it has always been such a cultural mix. 
Brixton has always had pretty rich people here. See Brixton Water Lane near the Dr's surgery. Huge beautiful old detached houses set well back from the road. Rich people have been living there for centuries.
But there was always a mixture of classes and cultures mixing in together.  
The reason people are getting upset because it is becoming bland and samey buy pricing out people of different classes and cultures. 
Even shitty small places are renting for stupid prices here now. 
It's splitting up families, friends and groups of people. 
I am desperately upset that I might have to soon move back towards where I grew up  

Yes we cannot blame individual more affluent people for this effect but we can blame the rich as a whole for ruining places like this. 
People want to move here because it is different and cool but it won't be for much longer if it carries on like this. 
Surely it is totally naive to not be able to see why people are so upset about it.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> we all like Brixton and that's why we are a member of this blog.


 
_Blog? _


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 6, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I do understand that it is happening everywhere, not just Brixton, but it is especially upsetting here because it has always been such a cultural mix.
> Brixton has always had pretty rich people here. See Brixton Water Lane near the Dr's surgery. Huge beautiful old detached houses set well back from the road. Rich people have been living there for centuries.
> But there was always a mixture of classes and cultures mixing in together.
> The reason people are getting upset because it is becoming bland and samey buy pricing out people of different classes and cultures.
> ...


 
I met someone yesterday who was born in Brixton but moved out but still works here.  Told me she'd been to Brixton Village and just felt totally out of place now


----------



## Firky (Apr 6, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Still, good to see manter back.


 

Back of the net


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Yes I'm interested by all you negative people thinking that the affluent rich...


 
What, are there "non-affluent rich" people too? 



> ...are moving in and changing your Brixton. What do you class as rich?


 
Most people have used the word "wealthy", not "rich".

Wealthy in that context pretty much means national median income or higher, which is higher than 60% of the population earn.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Sorry guys.... If this is not gentrification at its best then what is...Im sorry to say the rich have been here before!!.Maybe we are just going round in circles.....At the end of the day we all like Brixton and that's why we are a member of this blog.


 
It's not a blog.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

I don't think the word wealthy has been used. I'm still waiting to find out who these rich people are moving to Brixton. You speak as if people are moving out of Marylebone or Kensington to Brixton as it is now the place to be. In my opinion the media has portrayed Brixton as an up and coming area that has a lot to offer. 10 years a go people would have thought twice about moving here. Now more people are embracing it.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's not a blog.


Yawn


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> You live in Zone 2! Probably only one of the last areas that is so called reasonable for people to move in to the area. Of course it's going to change. Look around you and smell the Starbucks coffee. You might of lived in Brixton your whole life. So what? You don't have to eat the burgers, smell the coffee, drink the beer. No-one wants to live in an area of crime. No-one wants to bring up children around drug dealers, piss, and nasty gangs..You are deluded if you want this old Brixton back.


 
So it's either one or the other; deluxe burgers, plush pads and designer cupcakes _or_ "drug dealers, piss, and nasty gangs", really?!

I never said I wanted ''old Brixton'' back. I like Brixton the way it was a few years ago and the way it is now (just about). The way it appears to be going is what's worrying.


And for the record, most of the drug dealers are mine and RaverDrew 's mates and they're sound. I shall send them your regards.

Oh and I piss in the street sometimes so that piss you talk of is probably mine. Sorry 'bout that.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> Oh... you must be that bag lady I've seen on Brixton Square barbecuing the pigeons with reggae reggae sauce


 
If it wasn't for the Reggae Reggae Sauce the Brixon pigeon wouldn't be so darn tasty, Levi Roots ma Brixton boy, keeps me stocked up so I don't go hungry. C'mon down to Windrush Square, I be keepin' it local, everything iiiirrrriiiee.

*Brixton Pigeon Burger £99p! NO YUPPIES ALLOWED!  *


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 6, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> If it wasn't for the Reggae Reggae Sauce the Brixon pigeon wouldn't be so darn tasty, Levi Roots ma Brixton boy, keeps me stocked up so I don't go hungry. C'mon down to Windrush Square, I be keepin' it local, everything iiiirrrriiiee.
> 
> Brixton Pigeon Burger £99p! NO YUPPIES ALLOWED!


 
£99 or 99p?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 6, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> So it's either one or the other; deluxe burgers, plush pads and designer cupcakes _or_ "drug dealers, piss, and nasty gangs", really?!
> 
> I never said I wanted ''old Brixton'' back. I like Brixton the way it was a few years ago and the way it is now (just about). The way it appears to be going is what's worrying.
> 
> ...


Dealers: are they your mates because they're dealers, is that where the friendship originated?


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> £99 or 99p?


 
NO YUPPIES = 99p (and I only take the Brixton Pound). And no matter HOW popular I become, it will ALWAYS stay that price. I'm even getting letters from Foxtons, they want to buy my cardboard box it seems.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Dealers: are they your mates because they're dealers, is that where the friendship originated?


No, I think they like my Brixton Pigeons Burgers. That's what did it; one bite of my delicious BPB and it went all all BFF.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> I don't think the word wealthy has been used.


 
It has. Not something you want to acknowledge, obviously, as that'd ruin your _schtick_ about "rich" people.



> I'm still waiting to find out who these rich people are moving to Brixton. You speak as if people are moving out of Marylebone or Kensington to Brixton as it is now the place to be.


 
No, that's how you're *assuming* people are speaking, because it suits your tedious narrative.



> In my opinion the media has portrayed Brixton as an up and coming area that has a lot to offer. 10 years a go people would have thought twice about moving here. Now more people are embracing it.


 
Some of those people are embracing the sort of property available, but that was the same 10 years ago. Brixton is more "attractive" to a wider group of people not because it's portrayed as "up and coming", but because it's portrayed as not being as identikit as some other parts of London. It's got a life of its' own that isn't all coffee houses and gastropubs.
Ironically, the influx that being portrayed as different has caused is what is in fact killing off the difference, and turning Brixton slowly but surely into a clone of every other "gentrified" area. Homogeneous, boring and lifeless.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Also, I am holding a special promotion soon:

*SMACK A YUPPIE AND GET A BRIXTON PIGEON BURGER HALF PRICE!*


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 6, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> No, I think they like my Brixton Pigeons Burgers. That's what did it; one bite of my delicious BPB and it went all all BFF.


so that would be your brixton padded buttocks and bird fucking frenzy


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Yawn


Tired, are you? The thinking a bit taxing, is it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 6, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Also, I am holding a special promotion soon:
> 
> SMACK A YUPPIE AND GET A *BRIXTON PIGEON BURGER HALF PRICE*!


smack two yuppies and get one burger free


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> smack two yuppies and get one burger free


Shit, you'd make a great business partner!


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 6, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Yawn


Fuck off you dull cunt


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Belushi said:


> It was when Iceland became that organic supermarket 'As Nature Intended'



"Yummy Mummy's go to Iceland."


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2013)

If anyone really is 'shocked' by someone scrawling Yuppies Out on Foxtons window they really ought to rethink whether Brixton is the place for them, it does get way gnarlier than that.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

Belushi said:


> If anyone really is 'shocked' by someone scrawling Yuppies Out on Foxtons window they really ought to rethink whether Brixton is the place for them, it does get way gnarlier than that.



Belushi, that made me laff so hard I nearly choked on my Brixton Pigeon Burger.


----------



## fractionMan (Apr 6, 2013)

peterkro said:


> The houses in my old street (Victorian terrace ) are going at auction for 705-730k they've been squats for thirty years or more so with refurb costs you won't get much change out of a million.Don't think they're being bought by "strivers" more out and out thieves (i.e. bankers,city types et al).


 

I just looked up the place where I was born back in the seventies, clapham.  We lived in a squat back then and the person who moved in after us stayed until they owned it.  Average flat price round there is now 385k!


----------



## boohoo (Apr 6, 2013)

kittyP said:


> You two leave the pigeons out of this!  Or I'll be after you.


 
Go Kitty! Go Kitty! yer - no Pigeon burgers!


----------



## leanderman (Apr 6, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It has.
> 
> Some of those people are embracing the sort of property available, but that was the same 10 years ago. Brixton is more "attractive" to a wider group of people not because it's portrayed as "up and coming", but because it's portrayed as not being as identikit as some other parts of London. It's got a life of its' own that isn't all coffee houses and gastropubs.
> Ironically, the influx that being portrayed as different has caused is what is in fact killing off the difference



It may be simpler: that Brixton is the only central-ish place that is still remotely affordable for the well-off

All the other places are just about beyond the reach of the 'bank of mum and dad' etc. 

Brixton's new image may come second to the price.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 6, 2013)

kittyP said:


> You two leave the pigeons out of this!  Or I'll be after you.


 
Kitty, but picture it; I am forced to fry up and sell our Brixton pigeons on Windrush Square, it's the only way I'll survive... you could say the the foxes are killing them - Yes, Foxtons saw me out in the gutter... I can no longer afford to shop in Iceland cos it's gone all organic and only ''yummy mummy'' types can afford to go there now; Turkey Drummers have gone all deluxe and everyone is eating at Bukowski Grill.... Poor RaverDrew and I are forced into this new way of life; Drew get's up early to capture the pigeons each morning whilst I start up the fire (disposable BBQ's mind, until I can afford a proper one from Cash Converters), Levi Roots comes and delivers the days Reggae Reggae Sauce and I work on the signage of the days promotion, such as; *SHIT ON A YUPPIE'S CUPCAKE AND GET A BRIXTON PIGEON BURGER HALF PRICE!*

So Kitty, it's not that we _want_ to harm our Brixton pigeons. This is survival.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 6, 2013)

Shit on a yuppie's cupcake, tell them it contains homegrown and not only will they thank you for it and give you money, they'll think you're doing them a good turn.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 6, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> Shit on a yuppie's cupcake, tell them it contains homegrown and not only will they thank you for it and give you money, they'll think you're doing them a good turn.


Organic, full of enzymes, freshly made today...


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 6, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It has. Not something you want to acknowledge, obviously, as that'd ruin your _schtick_ about "rich" people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's your opinion.  I ask this question. Do you really think London is the place for you?


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Tired, are you? The thinking a bit taxing, is it?


No not tired...just out spending my hard earned cash in Brixton as I love the place....my question is where do you go to enjoy your self on a Saturday night? It concerns me that the thought of you enjoying your self and rubbing shoulders with so called new blood scares the hell out of you.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 7, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Kitty, but picture it; I am forced to fry up and sell our Brixton pigeons on Windrush Square, it's the only way I'll survive... you could say the the foxes are killing them - Yes, Foxtons saw me out in the gutter... I can no longer afford to shop in Iceland cos it's gone all organic and only ''yummy mummy'' types can afford to go there now; Turkey Drummers have gone all deluxe and everyone is eating at Bukowski Grill.... Poor RaverDrew and I are forced into this new way of life; Drew get's up early to capture the pigeons each morning whilst I start up the fire (disposable BBQ's mind, until I can afford a proper one from Cash Converters), Levi Roots comes and delivers the days Reggae Reggae Sauce and I work on the signage of the days promotion, such as; *SHIT ON A YUPPIE'S CUPCAKE AND GET A BRIXTON PIGEON BURGER HALF PRICE!*
> 
> So Kitty, it's not that we _want_ to harm our Brixton pigeons. This is survival.



So, you are just like Brixton village. Making money from Brixton's Revival.......doesn't this go against all your morals. I thought you disapproved. Not wanting Brixton to change. Shame on you!


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> No not tired...just out spending my hard earned cash in Brixton as I love the place....my question is where do you go to enjoy your self on a Saturday night? It concerns me that the thought of you enjoying your self and rubbing shoulders with so called new blood scares the hell out of you.


The way that pub and club staff are being treated by some of these new arrivals certainly concerns me, as do the hordes of drunken lads that now populate Coldharbour Lane in the early hours.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 7, 2013)

editor said:


> The way that pub and club staff are being treated by some of these new arrivals certainly concerns me, as do the hordes of drunken lads that now populate Coldharbour Lane in the early hours.


But this is not a new thing in Brixton.......or even the UK.........some people on here don't realise that Balham is affluent. Now that concerns me........


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> But this is not a new thing in Brixton


Yes it is.


----------



## kittyP (Apr 7, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Kitty, but picture it; I am forced to fry up and sell our Brixton pigeons on Windrush Square, it's the only way I'll survive... you could say the the foxes are killing them - Yes, Foxtons saw me out in the gutter... I can no longer afford to shop in Iceland cos it's gone all organic and only ''yummy mummy'' types can afford to go there now; Turkey Drummers have gone all deluxe and everyone is eating at Bukowski Grill.... Poor RaverDrew and I are forced into this new way of life; Drew get's up early to capture the pigeons each morning whilst I start up the fire (disposable BBQ's mind, until I can afford a proper one from Cash Converters), Levi Roots comes and delivers the days Reggae Reggae Sauce and I work on the signage of the days promotion, such as; *SHIT ON A YUPPIE'S CUPCAKE AND GET A BRIXTON PIGEON BURGER HALF PRICE!*
> 
> So Kitty, it's not that we _want_ to harm our Brixton pigeons. This is survival.


 
But they are my friends


----------



## kittyP (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> But this is not a new thing in Brixton.......or even the UK.........some people on here don't realise that Balham is affluent. Now that concerns me........


 
Are you only replying to people directly quoting you? 
Did you read my last post on here ?


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> But they are my friends


Me and Drew are your friends too though, innit. Do you love the pigeons more than you love me and Drew?


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2013)

Just walked down Coldharbour Lane. An average Saturday night on the street is now far, far busier and far rowdier than a few years back. As usual. there's discarded bottles, cans, fast food rubbish everywhere with the occasional puddle of sick, plus the usual twats pissing in the side streets. Demographically, the night crowd has changed massively.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 7, 2013)

editor said:


> Just walked down Coldharbour Lane. An average Saturday night on the street is now far, far busier and far rowdier than a few years back. As usual. there's discarded bottles, cans, fast food rubbish everywhere with the occasional puddle of sick, plus the usual twats pissing in the side streets. Demographically, the night crowd has changed massively.



That was me pissing.


----------



## kittyP (Apr 7, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> Me and Drew are your friends too though, innit. Do you love the pigeons more than you love me and Drew?


 
Don't make me choose man


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 7, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Don't make me choose man



Well, Drew and I will never shit on you.


----------



## Autochthonous1 (Apr 7, 2013)

But if we do it probably won't bring you good luck.


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> But this is not a new thing in Brixton.......or even the UK.........some people on here don't realise that Balham is affluent. Now that concerns me........



it's not some people, only me and funnily enough I don't spend my time studying estate agents to check the relative performance of different dormitories. 

tbh I think you fretting about rubbing shoulders with VP on a saturday night is far, far more revealing.  We both know the likes of you come and go leaving a distorted local economy and fractured social structures while you're oblivious to the fact that we might even exist.  But the sheer arrogance of your questioning does rather beggar belief.

Tell me something, who do you think London (specifically Brixton) is the place for?


----------



## peterkro (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> I don't think the word wealthy has been used. I'm still waiting to find out who these rich people are moving to Brixton. You speak as if people are moving out of Marylebone or Kensington to Brixton as it is now the place to be. In my opinion the media has portrayed Brixton as an up and coming area that has a lot to offer. 10 years a go people would have thought twice about moving here. Now more people are embracing it.


Arf, 10 years ago the more awake of the greedy were already buying up places in and around Brixton.You are trying to use a logical fallacy by the way nobody mentioned Marylebone or Kensington and the sly "as if" doesn't make it alright.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:
			
		

> That's your opinion.  I ask this question. Do you really think London is the place for you?


there we have it, this view in a nutshell. Not only get out of Brixton if you don't have as much money as us, but get out of London full stop. This is our city. We own it. One of the most disgusting posts I've ever seen on here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> there we have it, this view in a nutshell. Not only get out of Brixton if you don't have as much money as us, but get out of London full stop. This is our city. We own it. One of the most disgusting posts I've ever seen on here.


The thing is that the filthy rich have long owned large parts of london, eg old nicol, a disgisting slum ripped down in the 1890s was owned by the well-to-do. The difference is now that rather than keeping the poor working class 'in their place' the contemporary gentrifier wants the kudos of living on the frontier while wanting the natives to be relocated to the east.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> there we have it, this view in a nutshell. Not only get out of Brixton if you don't have as much money as us, but get out of London full stop. This is our city. We own it. One of the most disgusting posts I've ever seen on here.



Lol!!! Well I'm glad you own something as you will be glad to know property prices have gone up in the area.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Lol!!! Well I'm glad you own something as you will be glad to know property prices have gone up in the area.


What? Seriously, what?


----------



## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

Where are all these rich people? Do they send their kids to private school? If you buy a house in Brixton are you now a yuppie?
It's the Victoria Line that opened Brixton up, and what with the success of the Academy, The Ritzy, the clubs etc, is it any surprise that people might want to move here?


----------



## cesare (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What? Seriously, what?


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Where are all these rich people? Do they send their kids to private school? If you buy a house in Brixton are you now a yuppie?
> It's the Victoria Line that opened Brixton up, and what with the success of the Academy, The Ritzy, the clubs etc, is it any surprise that people might want to move here?


The Victoria Line reached Brixton in 1971. The Academy has been a live performance venue since 1929. Looks like it sure took a lot of time to "open up" the area.


----------



## mwareing1 (Apr 7, 2013)

newbie said:


> it's not some people, only me and funnily enough I don't spend my time studying estate agents to check the relative performance of different dormitories.
> 
> tbh I think you fretting about rubbing shoulders with VP on a saturday night is far, far more revealing.  We both know the likes of you come and go leaving a distorted local economy and fractured social structures while you're oblivious to the fact that we might even exist.  But the sheer arrogance of your questioning does rather beggar belief.
> 
> Tell me something, who do you think London (specifically Brixton) is the place for?


Anyone.... This is London. People come and people go. If you want an area that stands still. Try a village up North. Areas like that never change.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Anyone.... This is London. People come and people go. If you want an area that stands still. Try a village up North. Areas like that never change.


 
Community and 'areas that stand still' are two different things. London has always been, and should remain, more than just a place for the middle classes to send a few years between University and having kids.


----------



## leanderman (Apr 7, 2013)

Well-off people have been in Brixton for quite a time, for quite a few reasons, these included:

Houses are relatively cheaper
They like Brixton's 'vibe'
They dislike well-off people like themselves
It makes them feel 'edgy'
It's near their parents' homes in Dulwich
It's near their former public schools in Dulwich


----------



## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

editor said:


> The Victoria Line reached Brixton in 1971. The Academy has been a live performance venue since 1929. Looks like it sure took a lot of time to "open up" the area.


 
Yes, I remember the huge hole in the ground when it was being built, and paying 2 old pennies to watch Flash Gordon matinees at what is now the Academy way back when. It was shut for quite a long while before reopening as the Academy.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Try a village up North. Areas like that never change.


 
And by god you're a vile snobby cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Anyone.... This is London. People come and people go. If you want an area that stands still. Try a village up North. Areas like that never change.


One day they're going to take their city back. Best for you if you're out in the country that day.


----------



## leanderman (Apr 7, 2013)

Belushi said:


> Community and 'areas that stand still' are two different things. London has always been, and should remain, more than just a place for the middle classes to send a few years between University and having kids.



Hasn't London's population always turned over at phenomenal rates? Down the centuries.

And now: For example, 40 per cent of Lambeth residents were not born in the UK and these can't all be middle-class interlopers.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Hasn't London's population always turned over at phenomenal rates? Down the centuries.
> 
> And now: For example, 40 per cent of Lambeth residents were not born in the UK and these can't all be middle-class interlopers.


 
Yes it has, but it's also been home to long standing communities as well - you can have both.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

Just in passing:

Reader Flattery – Iain Sinclair and the Colonisation of East London


----------



## newbie (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Anyone.... This is London. People come and people go. If you want an area that stands still. Try a village up North. Areas like that never change.


yet you're questioning whether VP should be here? 

I don't, but anyway, you don't mean 'anyone', you mean people who can afford to buy their way in, who have 'hard earned cash' to spend, and who choose your version of the night economy to spend it in,  people like you, people who know and care about their position on _the housing ladder_. Nobody else is on your radar.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

Autochthonous1 said:


> "Yummy Mummy's go to Iceland."


 
True, but I can forgive Iceland anything, because of Bjork.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

newbie said:


> yet you're questioning whether VP should be here?


 
After coming in with:



> What is the difference between this and saying ‘indians out’, or ‘blacks out’ or ‘fats people out’


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

Belushi said:


> If anyone really is 'shocked' by someone scrawling Yuppies Out on Foxtons window they really ought to rethink whether Brixton is the place for them, it does get way gnarlier than that.


 
There's "edgy and vibrant", and then there's "*too* edgy and vibrant"!
And like I said, the very reason some of them come here to party, is the very reason they want to change shit once they live here. Fucking joke.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> No not tired...just out spending my hard earned cash in Brixton as I love the place....my question is where do you go to enjoy your self on a Saturday night? It concerns me that the thought of you enjoying your self and rubbing shoulders with so called new blood scares the hell out of you.


 
I'm moderately severely disabled nowadays, so I don't really get out on saturday night, anymore.
And I see you're...how can I put this nicely?...putting your own spin on things. I'm not "scared" by "new blood", I'm disheartened, because "New blood" invariably means "old blood" getting pushed out - if they're "lucky", to the 'burbs; if they're unlucky, who knows where? Away from a place they love, where many of them grew up, that's for sure.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> But this is not a new thing in Brixton.......or even the UK.........some people on here don't realise that Balham is affluent. Now that concerns me........


 
Just because some people don't choose to engage with your posts, doesn't mean they don't know the demographics of south London.
And btw, parts of Balham started "gentrifying" in the late '70s, around the same time as the so-called "between the commons" area that runs from Battersea Rise to Nightingale Lane, so it's hardly bloody surprising that it's "gone upmarket", is it? It's still hardly somewhere you can compare with Brixton.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> there we have it, this view in a nutshell. Not only get out of Brixton if you don't have as much money as us, but get out of London full stop. This is our city. We own it. One of the most disgusting posts I've ever seen on here.


 
Problem is, that no amount of explanation serves to change such peoples' views, either, because they're all about themselves. Unluckily for him, Me and mine, and people like us, will be here as long as there's social housing here - the fly in his ointment - reminding the moneyed that Brixton is ours as well as theirs.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Where are all these rich people? Do they send their kids to private school? If you buy a house in Brixton are you now a yuppie?
> It's the Victoria Line that opened Brixton up, and what with the success of the Academy, The Ritzy, the clubs etc, is it any surprise that people might want to move here?


 
Learn some local history, you _schmuck_.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Anyone.... This is London. People come and people go. If you want an area that stands still. Try a village up North. Areas like that never change.


 
Everything and everywhere changes. What you don't appear to grasp is that *how* the change happens has meaning for the communities that are changed.
Not that you give a fuck, but for those who're less worried about seeing the price of our proprty rise, well *we* give a fuck.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Anyone.... This is London. People come and people go.


could you pls become one of the latter group?


----------



## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Learn some local history, you _schmuck_.


 
I've lived here all my life pal. Probably give you a history lesson. In your post above you say "they" are changing things. What are "they" changing? Brixton's always been changing, what is it about this "change" that you don't like?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> I've lived here all my life pal. Probably give you a history lesson. In your post above you say "they" are changing things. What are "they" changing? Brixton's always been changing, what is it about this "change" that you don't like?


it's a strange thing but i've never noticed anyone describing someone else as pal has any friendly intent.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> I've lived here all my life pal. Probably give you a history lesson. In your post above you say "they" are changing things. What are "they" changing? Brixton's always been changing, what is it about this "change" that you don't like?


This?



RaverDrew said:


> It's really not a case of being rich, it's about the native people who were born and raised in the area being forced out by those with more money than them, and in Brixton's case this is tantamount to ethnic cleansing.
> 
> In my case, I've been priced out of the place I've called home ALL my life. So why are you so shocked that this provokes a violent reaction from some ?


 
(edit: which _does_ make it about the rich btw drew)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Hasn't London's population always turned over at phenomenal rates? Down the centuries.
> 
> And now: For example, 40 per cent of Lambeth residents were not born in the UK and these can't all be middle-class interlopers.


 
Some parts of London have always "churned" their populations, other parts haven't.
The reason areas like Lambeth and Tower Hamlets have a large population of people born abroad is the same as why Whitechapel historically did - established communities for some immigrants (we've had a Portugeuse community in Lambeth for somewhere between 100-150 years now, which means that immigrants from Brazil and a couple of the African states also feel more at home here), and (more so in previous times than now) cheap housing and "off the cards" work.
There's been a "cycle" of population change for about the last 2 centuries, though, which (at least in *Jerry White's view) sees the "haves" deserting the inner city for the 'burbs, and then, once the inner city is ripe for the picking (lower property prices etc), recolonising, forcing the "have nots" to the 'burbs, and _vice versa_.

*Former journalist, writer of several books on London.


----------



## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> it's a strange thing but i've never noticed anyone describing someone else as pal has any friendly intent.


 Nor schmuck. Still, enough with petty insults, you are right.
Back to the subject: who here recalls the property price crash around 1996 / 1997 ish? A lot of properties became very cheap, and people bought in.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

What sort of things need to happen to allow a set of people to 'buy in' (eurgh?)


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> *Former journalist, writer of several books on London.


 
And former Chief Executive of Hackney Council iirc.


----------



## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What sort of things need to happen to allow a set of people to 'buy in' (eurgh?)


 
It could be the dastardly landlord, it could be a young family wanting extra space. Obviously because then it was cheap. The real problem is that councils weren't allowed to plow the RTB monies back into building affordable housing.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 7, 2013)

'Yuppies Out' scribbled across Foxtons windows?   Absolutely shocking!

People being priced out of the area they've always lived in? Fuck 'em, who cares?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> It could be the dastardly landlord, it could be a young family wanting extra space. Obviously because then it was cheap. The real problem is that councils weren't allowed to plow the RTB monies back into building affordable housing.


It could be a whole set of wider relations (i,e people getting shafted by a crash they didn't organise or have a role in inflating, and a whole group of parasites with money or easy access to credit who spotted an opp) rather then individual choice - as your last point recognises.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2013)

(((oppressed rich people)))


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 7, 2013)




----------



## leanderman (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> What sort of things need to happen to allow a set of people to 'buy in' (eurgh?)



It's hard to forsee - because the worse the economy, the longer interest rates stay low, which helps keep house prices in London high. 

It will be interesting to see what happens when eventually rates rise. 

The Economist has been arguing for a long time that UK property prices are far too high in relation to historical norms. 

Other factors that could depress London house prices include:

Proper policy of house building
End of tax relief for landlords
Draconian immigration controls
Decentralising the UK


----------



## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> It could be a whole set of wider relations (i,e people getting shafted by a crash they didn't organise or have a role in inflating, and a whole group of parasites with money or easy access to credit who spotted an opp) rather then individual choice - as your last point recognises.


 
Agreed. A lot of people were shafted. There's no easy solution, although it would help if the council could build, and regenerate brownfield sites.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Apr 7, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I met someone yesterday who was born in Brixton but moved out but still works here.  Told me she'd been to Brixton Village and just felt totally out of place now


Tbf I _am_ a white middle class incomer (well, I was 10 years ago) and I also usually feel out of place in Brixton Village...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Just in passing:
> 
> Reader Flattery – Iain Sinclair and the Colonisation of East London


 
Had to laugh out loud at a few bits of that. He certainly nailed Sinclair.


----------



## gabi (Apr 7, 2013)

Yeh me too. I chose to live in brixton 15 years ago coz it was so beautifully diverse. im now moving. and im also a middle class white lad and appreciate the irony. its changed.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> I've lived here all my life pal.


 
I'm not your pal.



> Probably give you a history lesson.


 
You probably could.

Would it be one worth hearing, though?



> In your post above you say "they" are changing things. What are "they" changing? Brixton's always been changing, what is it about this "change" that you don't like?


 
Areas are always in flux - a bit here changes; a bit there changes - but we're not talking about standard demographic flux here, we're talking about a massively-accelerated version of it that is having the effect of homogenising the area so it's *safely* "vibrant" and "edgy" for those who want to buy their way into "the Brixton thing".
You see, I'm not against people buying houses here because it's the last reasonably-priced burg this side of Brockley, but I am against those who come here to carry out acts of cultural appropriation - the sort of people who flit from "trendy area" to "newer trendy area", with one eye to being somewhere "genuine", and the other to how much their property price is climbing as more people jump on the bandwagon.
And what does that leave us "natives" with? The answer is "not a lot".


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Nor schmuck. Still, enough with petty insults, you are right.
> Back to the subject: who here recalls the property price crash around 1996 / 1997 ish? A lot of properties became very cheap, and people bought in.


 
Happened in about 2/3rds of the rest of London too. People bought in in those places too. Same back in '92-'93. Prices have been consistently climbing for over a decade, so what's your point?


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> And former Chief Executive of Hackney Council iirc.


 
Really? Interesting.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Really? Interesting.


 
Pretty sure that's right, and various other local government positions. I think he took up the history side relatively late on.

I went to see him speak last year, he certainly knows his stuff.


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## peterkro (Apr 7, 2013)

I've seen this suburban flight/urban return shit before.I lived in Paddington (Paddo) in Sydney for some time in the late sixties early seventies,it was a great community centre of Australia's burgeoning gay rights movement, very high level of recent arrivals (although because of the "white Australia" policy they were mainly South American or Greek and Italian), a few quotes from wikipedia explains:

"The unfashionable nature of the suburb continued until the mid-1960s, when gentrification took hold. At this time the area developed a bohemian aspect with a large arts community attracting creative and alternative residents. The suburb is now an example of uncoordinated urban renewal and restoration, where desirable location and heritage charm have contributed to flourishing real-estate values. Old boot-repair and linen shops have given way to designer fashion outlets and gourmet food."

"Paddington is known for its Victorian terrace houses which, having been slums for much of the post-World War II period, were later gentrified and are highly sought after"

."A bustling, cosmopolitan suburb of the Eastern Suburbs, straddling the arterial route of Oxford Street, Sydney, this is one of the most historically rich, culturally vibrant and recognisable districts of Sydney. Paddington is famous for its plethora of boutique and chain fashion stores as well as many cafés and restaurants. Five Ways is a multiple intersection located in the backstreets of Paddington which is popular with local residents and tourists because of its range of cafés and bars".
It's comparable to Brixton in many ways,the arrival of the "alternative" people helped give it the great community feel,followed some years later by the gentrification mob who sent house prices rocketing and lead to the "desirable location and heritage charm" bollocks it's now a tourist trap very similar to others all over the world."located in the backstreets of Paddington which is popular with local residents and tourists because of its range of cafés and bars",no almost all of the original residents have been pushed out to replaced by the Oz equivalent of Hooray Henrys and their pied a terres. Even Redfern is being gentrified FFS.
*[edit]​*


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## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Had to laugh out loud at a few bits of that. He certainly nailed Sinclair.


Even longer and more thorough one here.


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## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Happened in about 2/3rds of the rest of London too. People bought in in those places too. Same back in '92-'93. Prices have been consistently climbing for over a decade, so what's your point?


 
Well, that is the point. Things change, for good or bad. I think my stance is that Brixton isn't a special case and is affected by market forces. The fault lies squarely with government for not allowing affordable housing to be built by councils.
I will say that when I walk through the "village" it's not the place that I used to know, but harking for the past would be pure nostalgia. I need evidence that the "yuppies" who pay silly money for a burger are in fact the new rich, turfing Brixtonians out of house and home. That said when a property in Blenheim Gardens goes on the market for over a million then things can't be right. But it's the same all over London, property prices are ridiculous.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Pretty sure that's right, and various other local government positions. I think he took up the history side relatively late on.
> 
> I went to see him speak last year, he certainly knows his stuff.


 
Someone put me onto one of his books because he did a kind of time-line of how medium-scale development of private housing (stuff like Cubitt's forays into Camden) spread methodically (mostly westward and northward) from what we call the west end.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Even longer and more thorough one here.


 
Cheers!

E2A. I rather enjoyed that.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Well, that is the point. Things change, for good or bad. I think my stance is that Brixton isn't a special case and is affected by market forces.


 
My point is that in Brixton, we don't have only "market forces" in play. Market forces are what took 20+ years to turn parts of Battersea, Balham and Clapham into definitively middle-class territory. What we have in Brixton is akin to what Dalston went through - *rapid* colonisation that outstrips "the market" because people want to "buy in" to what they assume is the local culture.



> The fault lies squarely with government for not allowing affordable housing to be built by councils.


 
First for ideological reasons (can't have all those plebs beholden to their local authorities rather than central government!), and then because to do so would upset the housing price bubble that's been inflating for the last 15 years, and if you upset the bubble, you (especially now, thanks to Osborne) risk sending the economy into a spin.



> I will say that when I walk through the "village" it's not the place that I used to know, but harking for the past would be pure nostalgia. I need evidence that the "yuppies" who pay silly money for a burger are in fact the new rich, turfing Brixtonians out of house and home.


 
It's not as naked as that, as we both know, but the result is the same. Even with regard to social housing, over the last 35+ years (because RtB did, we should recall, start with Callaghan, not Thatcher, albeit Thatcher radically amended RtB to become a free-for-all) there's been legislation from both Labour and the Tories aimed at residualising social housing. Even now, what little local authority social housing gets built is usually the result of a development deal - we've got two good examples of this tendency to hand right now with the Myatts Fields development, and the proposed Cressingham Gardens development - that means that estates lose chunks of their green space.



> That said when a property in Blenheim Gardens goes on the market for over a million then things can't be right. But it's the same all over London, property prices are ridiculous.


 
And it won't get any better. Bottle-necked supply and wide-open demand.


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## leanderman (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> My point is that in Brixton, we don't have only "market forces" in play. Market forces are what took 20+ years to turn parts of Battersea, Balham and Clapham into definitively middle-class territory. What we have in Brixton is akin to what Dalston went through - *rapid* colonisation that outstrips "the market" because people want to "buy in" to what they assume is the local culture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed with all of this except that I'm not sure the well-off arriving now are buying in for the local culture. 

I think many of them are buying in for the new culture of Honest burgers, luxury flats and hipster bars.


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## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> And it won't get any better. Bottle-necked supply and wide-open demand.


 
I agree with your post.  I don't have a solution, apart from the obvious, but I must ask: where are these wealthy people residing? What parts of Brixton are in demand? Is it all estate agent hype?
You no doubt know the Abbeville Road area in Clapham, is this the sort of gentrification you are talking about?
I don't see that yet in Brixton, but perhaps it has just sneaked up as is obvious once one knows where to look.
I must add that property prices in Streatham as equally ludicrous, but Streatham has none of the buzz of Brixton.


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## leanderman (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> I agree with your post.  I don't have a solution, apart from the obvious, but I must ask: where are these wealthy people residing? What parts of Brixton are in demand? Is it all estate agent hype?
> You no doubt know the Abbeville Road area in Clapham, is this the sort of gentrification you are talking about?
> I don't see that yet in Brixton, but perhaps it has just sneaked up as is obvious once one knows where to look.
> I must add that property prices in Streatham as equally ludicrous, but Streatham has none of the buzz of Brixton.



Unless these blow-ins can afford private schooling they will clear out at secondary school age. As is the case in our road.


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## Ms T (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Well, that is the point. Things change, for good or bad. I think my stance is that Brixton isn't a special case and is affected by market forces. The fault lies squarely with government for not allowing affordable housing to be built by councils.
> I will say that when I walk through the "village" it's not the place that I used to know, but harking for the past would be pure nostalgia. I need evidence that the "yuppies" who pay silly money for a burger are in fact the new rich, turfing Brixtonians out of house and home. That said when a property in Blenheim Gardens goes on the market for over a million then things can't be right. But it's the same all over London, property prices are ridiculous.



I think a lot of those people don't live in Brixton, tbh.  

I live on a very long street in Brixton/Herne Hill and the demographic hasn't changed all that much in the time ten years I've been here (out of a total of twenty years in Brixton).  I was one of those who benefitted from the property crash of the mid-nineties btw, enabling me to eventually own a house that is now worth a fortune. Luck rather than "greed", and the desire to have a secure place to live.


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## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

Ms T said:


> I think a lot of those people don't live in Brixton, tbh.
> 
> I live on a very long street in Brixton/Herne Hill and the demographic hasn't changed all that much in the time ten years I've been here (out of a total of twenty years in Brixton). I was one of those who benefitted from the property crash of the mid-nineties btw, enabling me to eventually own a house that is now worth a fortune. Luck rather than "greed", and the desire to have a secure place to live.


 
Yes, I agree, I don't think that the demographic has changed that much, but then again perhaps I'm up to close.
I can see the change in Clapham and Streatham for example.
I'm struggling to see where these new rich white middle class are actually coming from?


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## ska invita (Apr 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> The Economist has been arguing for a long time that UK property prices are far too high in relation to historical norms.


not be pedantic, but its not an argument its a pretty blatant fact. From what i understand historic norms aren't a natural balance that will be be defaulted to - it is absolutely possible for house prices to continue to go up and average living space to continue to decrease. Japan has the phenomenon of the 100 year mortgage for example.


leanderman said:


> It will be interesting to see what happens when eventually rates rise.


no sign of that happening for the next decade i dont think. Theres even been talk of negative interest rates.


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## leanderman (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Yes, I agree, I don't think that the demographic has changed that much, but then again perhaps I'm up to close.
> I can see the change in Clapham and Streatham for example.
> I'm struggling to see where these new rich white middle class are actually coming from?



perhaps there seem to be more wealthy types than there actually are because you see so many in the new food places and venues.

but the vast majority of these punters are from outside Brixton.

if not, they are locals who would once have shunned the market


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## 299 old timer (Apr 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> because you see so many in the new food places and venues.


 
Someone should open a falafel place, it would make a fortune.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Someone should open a falafel place, it would make a fortune.


there used to be a very nice potato place to the right of the station as you came out, lovely ratatouille they had. then the fucking thing shut down, must be around 17, 18 years ago.


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## mxh (Apr 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> there used to be a very nice potato place to the right of the station as you came out, lovely ratatouille they had. then the fucking thing shut down, must be around 17, 18 years ago.


 
Quite agree, can't remember the name not Spud u like.


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## mxh (Apr 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> perhaps there seem to be more wealthy types than there actually are because you see so many in the new food places and venues.
> 
> but the vast majority of these punters are from outside Brixton.
> 
> if not, they are locals who would once have shunned the market


 
Most are visitors you can tell by the number of people streaming out the tube station of a weekend evening.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2013)

mxh said:


> Quite agree, can't remember the name not Spud u like.


I never knew the proprietor's name but i've always hoped s/he prospered.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> I agree with your post. I don't have a solution, apart from the obvious, but I must ask: where are these wealthy people residing? What parts of Brixton are in demand? Is it all estate agent hype?


 
Last 5 to 6 years has seen loads of the HMOs "between the hills" (yes, that's what the wankers have taken to calling the roads between Brixton Hill and Tulse Hill!) cleared and sold. Used to be mainly Josephine Avenue etc, but that's spilled upwards, so to speak. It also effectively decreases the available housing stock, insofar as places like some of the 4-storey houses on Elm Park that used to have 7 or 8 bedsits, or 4 flats in them, are converted to single family use.



> You no doubt know the Abbeville Road area in Clapham, is this the sort of gentrification you are talking about?


 
No. "Abbeville Village"  gentrified fairly slowly, started back in the late '70s early '80s with Abbeville and the side roads between Abbeville and South Side, and eventually crept all the way up to Clapham Park Rd and environs. The recent "Barnes-isation" of "Abbeville Village" is just the icing on the colonisation cake, to be fair.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Yes, I agree, I don't think that the demographic has changed that much, but then again perhaps I'm up to close.
> I can see the change in Clapham and Streatham for example.
> I'm struggling to see where these new rich white middle class are actually coming from?


 
This part of Lambeth has an extremely high density of social housing (bear in mind how many former GLC estates got added to Lambeth's portfolio when Thatcher dissolved the GLC), so I'm not surprised it isn't as immediately visible as in places like Clapham, Streatham or even Balham. The demographic outside the estates is changing, but it's still masked by the multiculturality of the estate populations, IMO.

As to where the well-heeled middle classes come from, the universities, dear boy.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> there used to be a very nice potato place to the right of the station as you came out, lovely ratatouille they had. then the fucking thing shut down, must be around 17, 18 years ago.


 
Jackets.
They also sold chilled sarsaparilla as one of the drinks, alongside the usual. Lovely!


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## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2013)

I read a piece in new scientist today about supersized sweet potatoes and there was a quote from a woman who works for the International Potato Organisation.

for real? thats an org?


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## mwareing1 (Apr 7, 2013)

newbie said:


> yet you're questioning whether VP should be here?
> 
> I don't, but anyway, you don't mean 'anyone', you mean people who can afford to buy their way in, who have 'hard earned cash' to spend, and who choose your version of the night economy to spend it in,  people like you, people who know and care about their position on _the housing ladder_. Nobody else is on your radar.


Ok obviously people's class differ here on urban 75. I seem a minority. I don't want to be your class you don't want to be mine.But at the end of the day we all like Brixton. So let the good times roll. I hope your life is full, happy, and London brings you what you deserve. London is like fashion. Nothing is new! Till next time.


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## newbie (Apr 7, 2013)

mwareing1 said:


> Ok obviously people's class differ here on urban 75. I seem a minority. I don't want to be your class you don't want to be mine.But at the end of the day we all like Brixton. So let the good times roll. I hope your life is full, happy, and London brings you what you deserve. London is like fashion. Nothing is new! Till next time.


what class do you think you are?


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## Belushi (Apr 7, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I read a piece in new scientist today about supersized sweet potatoes and there was a quote from a woman who works for the International Potato Organisation.
> 
> for real? thats an org?


 
When I was a kid they'd have adverts on tv for generic things like cream cakes or mushrooms financed by bodies like the national mushroom marketing board.


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## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> I don't know why why all the nimbys on here think that Brixton is a special case, this shit has been happening all over. Ask folk in Dalston, Stoke Newington, East Dulwich, ecetera ecetera.
> The clincher for me is this:
> 
> http://www.foxtons.co.uk/search?key...word&search_type=SS&sold=1&submit_type=search
> ...


London isn't even a special case, most of the country anyone who isn't well off or wasn't already a homeowner before 2009 is unlikely to ever own, and some of the rents I see in towns in the SE that aren't that near to London are still managing London-ish rents on single rooms and smaller properties.


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## leanderman (Apr 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Last 5 to 6 years has seen loads of the HMOs "between the hills" (yes, that's what the wankers have taken to calling the roads between Brixton Hill and Tulse Hill!) cleared and sold. Used to be mainly Josephine Avenue etc, but that's spilled upwards, so to speak. It also effectively decreases the available housing stock, insofar as places like some of the 4-storey houses on Elm Park that used to have 7 or 8 bedsits, or 4 flats in them, are converted to single family use.
> 
> .



Really? 

Our road uniquely, directly links Josephine Ave and Elm Park and, luckily, I have never heard or seen the risible description 'between the hills'. 

It is also the longest road 'between the hills'. And I have not yet seen a single family move into a former HMO here. In fact, until two years ago, when the planning rules changed, the situation 'between the hills' was single family homes being converted into three flats. Dozens of them.


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## madolesance (Apr 7, 2013)

Leander Road has never quite been close enough to Sudbourne Primary, so some people choose to rent a property nearer to the school of choice rather than support, maybe a closer school.


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## Rushy (Apr 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Really?
> 
> Our road uniquely, directly links Josephine Ave and Elm Park and, luckily, I have never heard or seen the risible description 'between the hills'.


I'm also between the hills and have never heard VP's term. I quite like it though


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## leanderman (Apr 7, 2013)

madolesance said:


> Leander Road has never quite been close enough to Sudbourne Primary, so some people choose to rent a property nearer to the school of choice rather than support, maybe a closer school.



Touché


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## editor (Apr 7, 2013)

299 old timer said:


> Nor schmuck. Still, enough with petty insults, you are right.
> Back to the subject: who here recalls the property price crash around 1996 / 1997 ish? A lot of properties became very cheap, and people bought in.


I recall it well but the property never became "cheap" enough for me to buy anything in Brixton.


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## Boudicca (Apr 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Really?
> 
> Our road uniquely, directly links Josephine Ave and Elm Park and, luckily, I have never heard or seen the risible description 'between the hills'.
> 
> It is also the longest road 'between the hills'. And I have not yet seen a single family move into a former HMO here. In fact, until two years ago, when the planning rules changed, the situation 'between the hills' was single family homes being converted into three flats. Dozens of them.


I did once joke on here that we should call it 'twixt the hills' and I fear this is what VP is remembering.  

It was a joke, honestly.


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## Rushy (Apr 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> perhaps there seem to be more wealthy types than there actually are because you see so many in the new food places and venues.
> 
> but the vast majority of these punters are from outside Brixton.
> 
> if not, they are locals who would once have shunned the market


It was definitely the case in Clapham High Street that it became a weekend "destination" from a huge catchment area. Not it seems it is Brixton's turn.


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## Chilavert (Apr 8, 2013)

Rushy said:


> It was definitely the case in Clapham High Street that it became a weekend "destination" from a huge catchment area. Not it seems it is Brixton's turn.


Agreed with this. 

A few years ago I used to live near Muswell Hill and the pubs and bars around the high st used to be mobbed with people from other parts of London (I assumed from further out towards the M25) at the weekends.


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## simonSW2 (Apr 8, 2013)

Boudicca said:


> I did once joke on here that we should call it 'twixt the hills' and I fear this is what VP is remembering.
> 
> It was a joke, honestly.


 
Twixton Hill!


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## simonSW2 (Apr 8, 2013)

simonSW2 said:


> Twixton Hill!


"This dream luxury bed-sit property is nestled in the vibrant, upcoming and sought after urban village of Twixton Hill, which offers a wide range of Sainsburys stores to choose from along the Nu-urbane slopes of Brixton Hillage and also a number of local street food emporiums on the foothills of Tulse. Call Jemima at Foxtons now to avoid disappointment."


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## DotCommunist (Apr 8, 2013)

Belushi said:


> When I was a kid they'd have adverts on tv for generic things like cream cakes or mushrooms financed by bodies like the national mushroom marketing board.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2013)

Chilavert said:


> Agreed with this.
> 
> A few years ago I used to live near Muswell Hill and the pubs and bars around the high st used to be mobbed with people from other parts of London (I assumed from further out towards the M25) at the weekends.


when i used to drink in muswell hill, mainly at the former green man although i popped into the baird now and again, it was generally a preliminary before going round to a mate's just off the hill itself for more excessive consumption of alcohol. the people i was with were mostly from finchley, although there were other people from haringey and barnet. i wonder if the demographick attending manhattan lights might have skewed things somewhat?

although i accept that parts of finchley are further out towards the m25 sort of from muswell hill.


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## Rushy (Apr 8, 2013)

I'm staggered by the recent leap in prices - just since Xmas.
This place 70s build sold late last year for just over 400,000 and it was considered to be worth up to 600 'done up really well'. Now on for 825K.

Although these places look a bit crap with uPVC windows - a few in the neighbouring terraces have been restored with more appropriate glazing and are IMO fine examples of 60/70s architecture. Sadly, the developer has ruined the terrace by rendering the outside of this mid-terrace one - thoroughly pissing off a few of the neighbours. (Their first floor roof terrace is also not legal.)


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## leanderman (Apr 8, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I'm staggered by the recent leap in prices - just since Xmas.
> This place 70s build sold late last year for just over 400,000 and it was considered to be worth up to 600 'done up really well'. Now on for 825K.
> 
> Although these places look a bit crap with uPVC windows - a few in the neighbouring terraces have been restored with more appropriate glazing and are IMO fine examples of 60/70s architecture. Sadly, the developer has ruined the terrace by rendering the outside of this mid-terrace one - thoroughly pissing off a few of the neighbours. (Their first floor roof terrace is also not legal.)



It's in the ever-shrinking cashment of Sudbourne school


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## rutabowa (Apr 8, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I read a piece in new scientist today about supersized sweet potatoes and there was a quote from a woman who works for the International Potato Organisation.
> 
> for real? thats an org?


there are national organisations to, eg this place in Green Lanes


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Really?
> 
> Our road uniquely, directly links Josephine Ave and Elm Park and, luckily, I have never heard or seen the risible description 'between the hills'.


 
How many estate agents do you talk to/are you, or have you ever been an estate agent/do you inflitrate estate agent forums "for a laugh"?



> It is also the longest road 'between the hills'. And I have not yet seen a single family move into a former HMO here. In fact, until two years ago, when the planning rules changed, the situation 'between the hills' was single family homes being converted into three flats. Dozens of them.


 
So, because *you* haven't seen it, it can't possibly be happening? I see. 
While I'm operating on anecdote myself, I trust my source.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 8, 2013)

Boudicca said:


> I did once joke on here that we should call it 'twixt the hills' and I fear this is what VP is remembering.
> 
> It was a joke, honestly.


 
Nope, I've actually seen it used by several people on another forum. Might be their "little joke", I suppose, but most estate agents I've met, while not humourless, don't tend to do irony.


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## livliv76 (Apr 8, 2013)

fractionMan said:


> You never hear anyone say "what we need is more yuppies round here". Funny that.


 
...um, isn't that on Foxton's website?


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## leanderman (Apr 8, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> How many estate agents do you talk to/are you, or have you ever been an estate agent/do you inflitrate estate agent forums "for a laugh"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am not, and never have been, a member of the estate-agent party.

The very that second one of these disputed phenomena - 'between the hills' and 'new family homes' - is observed I will inform you!


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 9, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I am not, and never have been, a member of the estate-agent party.


 
Puts leanderman on the list of people *not to* round up CTR.



> The very that second one of these disputed phenomena - 'between the hills' and 'new family homes' - is observed I will inform you!


 
Thanks!


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## ffsear (Apr 9, 2013)

One thing I will say about Foxtons,  At least its not another fucking mobile phone shop.   We now have  Orange, Vodafone, EE, Carphone Warehouse, O2 all on the high street


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## Crispy (Apr 9, 2013)

And Three


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## editor (Apr 9, 2013)

I'd rather have five mobile phone shops than five Foxton's. But given the choice, I'd rather have a row of independent shops.


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## ffsear (Apr 9, 2013)

I forgot Phones 4 u


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## Crispy (Apr 9, 2013)

That's the full set isn't it?


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## leanderman (Apr 9, 2013)

Which is why there is a vacancy. No phone firms left to fill it.


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## twistedAM (Apr 9, 2013)

ffsear said:


> I forgot Phones 4 u


 
They're helpful and nice in there. Only went cos I was waiting far too long (30 minutes) in a badly understaffed EE.


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