# King Edward VII hospital nurse suicide



## cliche guevara (Dec 7, 2012)

http://news.sky.com/story/1022287/royal-prank-call-nurse-commits-suicide

Fuck 

This has obviously destroyed her in a matter of days.


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## Santino (Dec 7, 2012)

There's nothing obvious about it.


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## marty21 (Dec 7, 2012)

That is awful


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## tufty79 (Dec 7, 2012)

it is,  marty. 
story's a bit confusing though - one says she was the nurse, another the receptionist?


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 7, 2012)

Presumably the royals had her killed?


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## belboid (Dec 7, 2012)

cliche guevara said:


> This has obviously destroyed her in a matter of days.


'This' I am guessing is actually her bosses blaming her entirely for it


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## Dan U (Dec 7, 2012)

tufty79 said:


> was it the nurse or the receptionist?


 
a nurse who was the receptionist at the time is the latest it seems

horrendous anyway if it is linked 

usual suspects on twitter all pointing the finger at the Aussies or the Mail etc depending on which side of the Leveson fence you sit on.


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## Teaboy (Dec 7, 2012)

Thats horrible.  Surely it can't have been just this, can it?


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## cliche guevara (Dec 7, 2012)

This needs a full investigation - I'm guessing she got a lot of grief from bosses.


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## belboid (Dec 7, 2012)

She was the nurse who put the call through to the nurse who gave out the info, apparently


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 7, 2012)

If I was her, the worldwide attention would be the worst. When it emerged my husband felt enormous sympathy for her because she wasn't a native English speaker so she was probably more easily duped. Seems to me it happened because of poor procedures.


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## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

I argued like fuck on Facebook about this, people were blaming her and saying she is entirely at fault.

A nurse is there to administer care. Not to vet the identity of callers who have been transferred from the switchboard to her. The police, MI5 or even the Palace should have instructed the hospital staff and warned them of such hoaxes.

Fucking disgusting to lay the blame on the nurse.

I wonder if they'll turn up


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

cliche guevara said:


> This needs a full investigation - I'm guessing she got a lot of grief from bosses.


This is likely.


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## skyscraper101 (Dec 7, 2012)

This is awful. If it is linked to the prank call fallout then it's really big. Bigger than Brand/Ross/Sachs gate even. 

I wonder what will happen to those radio DJs now....?


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## Garek (Dec 7, 2012)

That's a horrendous story


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## maldwyn (Dec 7, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> I wonder what will happen to those radio DJs now....?


They can't be held responsible.

Poor woman.


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## Dan U (Dec 7, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> This is awful. If it is linked to the prank call fallout then it's really big. Bigger than Brand/Ross/Sachs gate even.
> 
> I wonder what will happen to those radio DJs now....?


 
i should think they will be finished, although i don't discount a large parochial reaction from some in Oz to protect them.


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## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

Looked on Google News Australia to see if it has broken across there yet but the only reports I can find are from British news organisations so far.

http://news.google.com.au/


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## weltweit (Dec 7, 2012)

Is it not a bit early to speculate, the news articles have not been very detailed, how much do you actually know?


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## mattie (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> Looked on Google News Australia to see if it has broken across there yet but the only reports I can find are from British news organisations so far.


 
Still v early there.

And they're fucking lazy.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 7, 2012)

You've got to wonder what was said to her to convince her that her life was no longer worth living.


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## Teaboy (Dec 7, 2012)

Which publication will be the first to go with the 'how terrible for Kate / how will it affect her pregnancy?' line, I wonder.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Is it not a bit early to speculate, the news articles have not been very detailed, how much do you actually know?


Early is the meat and drink of speculation. I doubt these aussies shouted at her for being shit and how crap she was. I can think of some people who might have.


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## skyscraper101 (Dec 7, 2012)

Dan U said:


> i should think they will be finished, although i don't discount a large parochial reaction from some in Oz to protect them.



I reckon it will be the end of their show. The news of this was huge. Was on TV in America and everything too.


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## marty21 (Dec 7, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> If I was her, the worldwide attention would be the worst. When it emerged my husband felt enormous sympathy for her because she wasn't a native English speaker so she was probably more easily duped. Seems to me it happened because of poor procedures.


 clearly having the most famous preggers woman in the world in their hospital wasn't a cause for concern for the management - as no one has ever made prank calls about this sort of thing ever,so there was no need to take any preemptive action


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## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> You've got to wonder what was said to her to convince her that her life was no longer worth living.


 
You don't have to wonder at all, the fear of losing her job and it ruining her ability to work as a nurse again, or even the fear of being deported over it (if reports are true).


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## cliche guevara (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> You don't have to wonder at all, the fear of losing her job and it ruining her ability to work as a nurse again, or even the fear of being deported over it (if reports are true).


Not to mention the personal abuse and threats that are all over the social media.


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## jusali (Dec 7, 2012)

There but for the grace of god.........


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

I am surprised no one's said the obvious: the royal family have blood on their hands.


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## killer b (Dec 7, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Is it not a bit early to speculate, the news articles have not been very detailed, how much do you actually know?


who are you, and what have you done with weltweit?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> You've got to wonder what was said to her to convince her that her life was no longer worth living.


The royal family have said they'll take their custom elsewhere unless we sack you?


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## tommers (Dec 7, 2012)

cliche guevara said:


> Not to mention the personal abuse and threats that are all over the social media.


 
Really?  I find that really depressing.  People are fucking idiots.


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## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

Wonder if she'd been suspended by the hospital?


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## tommers (Dec 7, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Wonder if she'd been suspended by the hospital?


 
Hospital said she hadn't been suspended or disciplined.


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## bignose1 (Dec 7, 2012)

Dan U said:


> a nurse who was the receptionist at the time is the latest it seems
> 
> horrendous anyway if it is linked
> 
> usual suspects on twitter all pointing the finger at the Aussies or the Mail etc depending on which side of the Leveson fence you sit on.


If the Queen had really rang


maldwyn said:


> They can't be held responsible.
> 
> Poor woman.


Fucking hate the smart arse DJ cunts...when their not paedoing their prank wanking. Thats why I hate that arsehole Fosters advert with those two toss pots.


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## cliche guevara (Dec 7, 2012)

Only The Mail has used the term "suicide" so far, as far as I can see.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

tommers said:


> Hospital said she hadn't been suspended or disciplined.


Was it mandy rice-davies who first said 'they would, wouldn't they?'?


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## Stoat Boy (Dec 7, 2012)

Nobody is going to emerge from this tidal wave of shit that is now just hitting with anything else other than remorse and shame. Lot of lives have been damaged and even destroyed today.

That poor lady and her family. Two kids apparently as well. Just tragic and pointless.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 7, 2012)

the DJ's have to bear _some_ responsibility. They must have known somebody would get fucked for the prank.


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## DaveCinzano (Dec 7, 2012)

cliche guevara said:


> Only The Mail has used the term "suicide" so far, as far as I can see.


What, apart from Sky in the report you link to in your OP?


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## ElizabethofYork (Dec 7, 2012)

How awful.  Poor woman.


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## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

marty21 said:


> clearly having the most famous preggers woman in the world in their hospital wasn't a cause for concern for the management - as no one has ever made prank calls about this sort of thing ever,so there was no need to take any preemptive action


 
TBF given who uses that hospital one would imagine that they had fairly long standing policies in that regard, not so much in terms of dealing with hoax callers but rather aimed at preventing the various antics of the Press.

Anyway, it is a profound tragedy.  RIP.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

There seem to be a lot of people ignoring the royal elephant in the room


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> the DJ's have to bear _some_ responsibility. They must have known somebody would get fucked for the prank.


No pranks ever from now on.


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## mattie (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> No pranks ever from now on.


 
Or pick more appropriate targets for pranks.


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## killer b (Dec 7, 2012)

how are the fucking royal family not an appropriate target?


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## Stoat Boy (Dec 7, 2012)

At least thats two less Aussies likely to come over here now.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

mattie said:


> Or pick more appropriate targets for pranks.


Yep i agree, which is why i attacked the ross/brand defenders on here - that was a simple expression of power and privilege. This wasn't. This was just a fuck up that put its foot in stuff it didn't _produce_.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Stoat Boy said:


> At least thats two less Aussies likely to come over here now.


Go away again. Go to church or confession or whatever it is that you think makes you a nice human being.


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## mattie (Dec 7, 2012)

killer b said:


> how are the fucking royal family not an appropriate target?


 
This whole thread is about a nurse committing suicide and you ask me that?


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

mattie said:


> Or pick more appropriate targets for pranks.


Target is the key word here.


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## Stoat Boy (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Go away again. Go to church or confession or whatever it is that you think makes you a nice human being.


 
A fair point. Regretted posting it the moment I did. No excuses.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Stoat Boy said:


> A fair point. Regretted posting it the moment I did. No excuses.


Fair play.


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

The prank call should have never got through. Someone who's on 100k + a year needs issuing their P45!


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## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

One wonders how far down the road the Press had got in identifying who the nurse was, whether they had doorstepped her etc.


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## IC3D (Dec 7, 2012)

Some people are insanely loyal to the Queen, she could of been one of those.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

Stoat Boy said:


> At least thats two less Aussies likely to come over here now.


Ho ho


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## Blagsta (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Early is the meat and drink of speculation. I doubt these aussies shouted at her for being shit and how crap she was. I can think of some people who might have.



Tbh, i thought she was a bit daft for not checking who was calling. Whatever anyone says, it is the nurse's responsibility to maintain confidentiality and to check who you are speaking to. It's also the duty of management to ensure procedures are in place so this can happen. A terrible situation.


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## weltweit (Dec 7, 2012)

agricola said:


> One wonders how far down the road the Press had got in identifying who the nurse was, whether they had doorstepped her etc.


That is a good question.


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## maldwyn (Dec 7, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> the DJ's have to bear _some_ responsibility. They must have known somebody would get fucked for the prank.


They were shocked to have got through, the hospital should've anticipated such calls - they had cops on the doorstep ffs.


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## killer b (Dec 7, 2012)

mattie said:


> This whole thread is about a nurse committing suicide and you ask me that?


who is appropriate then?


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## mattie (Dec 7, 2012)

killer b said:


> who is appropriate then?


 
Not nurses, is my immediate first thought.


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Tbh, i thought she was a bit daft for not checking who was calling. Whatever anyone says, it is the nurse's responsibility to maintain confidentiality and to check who you are speaking to. It's also the duty of management to ensure procedures are in place so this can happen. A terrible situation.


 
You got the duty of management bit right. But the call should have never have got through to a nurse on the front desk - Queens voice or not.


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## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Tbh, i thought she was a bit daft for not checking who was calling. Whatever anyone says, it is the nurse's responsibility to maintain confidentiality and to check who you are speaking to. It's also the duty of management to ensure procedures are in place so this can happen. A terrible situation.


 
I did say this earlier, but I would be absolutely amazed if the hospital didnt already have those sort of procedures already in place - certainly the (NHS) hospital closest to where I work does, though even there medical and reception staff dont always follow that procedure when giving out patient information.


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## Blagsta (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> You got the duty of management bit right. But the call should have never have got through to a nurse on the front desk - Queens voice or not.


True.


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## killer b (Dec 7, 2012)

mattie said:


> Not nurses, is my immediate first thought.


of course. the nurse wasn't the target though? it's a fucking mess either way.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 7, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> They were shocked to have got through, the hospital should've anticipated such calls - they had cops on the doorstep ffs.


 
so shocked they thought through their actions and called it off. I'm not putting the death on them- but they must have known their carrying on was going to get someone disciplined/sacked


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## mattie (Dec 7, 2012)

killer b said:


> of course. the nurse wasn't the target though? it's a fucking mess either way.


 
I'm not sure the DJs would exactly fool Prince William by pretending to be his grandparents.

But, yes, it all seems to have blown up horribly - assuming the events are linked.  Horrendous and tragic business.


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## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

agricola said:


> One wonders how far down the road the Press had got in identifying who the nurse was, whether they had doorstepped her etc.


 Hard not to speculate that she got caught up in a shitstorm at work, regardless of disciplinaries or not, followed by a doorstopping.  Same time, I probably shouldn't.  Just stick with RIP for the woman and condolences to her family.  Awful.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> so shocked they thought through their actions and called it off. I'm not putting the death on them- but they must have known their carrying on was going to get someone disciplined/sacked


You are - and you shouldn't.


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## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

killer b said:


> of course. the nurse wasn't the target though? it's a fucking mess either way.


 
Well they must have realised they were going to end up talking to a nurse or a medical professional, but its ok, because nurses clearly have nothing better to do than answer fake phone calls.

Both DJ's have shut down their twitter accounts....... probably bricking themselves. Personally I couldn't give a fuck about the royals, or their sprog to be, but its a sad state of affairs that something as minor as this has really been blown out of proportion where someone feels they need to take their own life.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Also this is a private hospital - it might not have the same stuff as NHS.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well they must have realised they were going to end up talking to a nurse or a medical professional, but its ok, because nurses clearly have nothing better to do than answer fake phone calls.
> 
> Both DJ's have shut down their twitter accounts....... probably bricking themselves. Personally I couldn't give a fuck about the royals, or their sprog to be, but its a sad state of affairs that something as minor as this has really been blown out of proportion where someone feels they need to take their own life.


A hospital for the posh might be expected to have someone other than a nurse answering phones - if you want to do it that way.


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well they must have realised they were going to end up talking to a nurse or a medical professional..


 
That's the point though, they shouldn't have been able to. Royal security ain't what it used to be. Someone's in the shit!


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 7, 2012)

As someone who deals with confidential information this is most certainly a management issue, providing she hadn't done what she was told not to do .

The line is simple, "The Royal Family have their own private line through to us in order to speak about the condition of the Duchess. You should ignore any calls claiming to be from the Royal household and not give out ANY information."


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## weltweit (Dec 7, 2012)

Mother of two.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Barking_Mad said:


> As someone who deals with confidential information this is most certainly a management issue, providing she hadn't done what she was told not to do .
> 
> The line is simple, "The Royal Family have their own private line through to us in order to speak about the condition of the Duchess. You should ignore any calls claiming to be from the Royal household and not give out ANY information."


The quality of response is irrelevant.


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## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

Barking_Mad said:


> As someone who deals with confidential information this is most certainly a management issue, providing she hadn't done what she was told not to do .
> 
> The line is simple, "The Royal Family have their own private line through to us in order to speak about the condition of the Duchess. You should ignore any calls claiming to be from the Royal household and not give out ANY information."


 
There has just been an update on the BBC, stating that the call came straight through to the nurses because it was made at half five in the morning.  (edit) She might therefore have never been told anything like that, or even might have assumed that the call being put through was genuine.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> That's the point though, they shouldn't have been able to. Royal security ain't what it used to be. Someone's in the shit!


Somebody's in the mortuary


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## Stoat Boy (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> That's the point though, they shouldn't have been able to. Royal security ain't what it used to be. Someone's in the shit!


 
You would have thought that all calls to the hospital would have been moinitered anyway for all sorts of security reasons as well. I am sure that there would have been a whole host of organisations with people having the sufficent security vetting to put a couple on reception duty for the duration of the stay. MI5/MI6, Cabinet office, in fact a whole raft of Ministrys could have been used to bring in office cover or at least be there as a firewall for any incoming calls.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 7, 2012)

It wasn't the nurse on the recording, it was the nurse who picked up the phone because there was no receptionist at 5.00 am and put the call through to the nurse on the ward.


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## Blagsta (Dec 7, 2012)

Its true that this was very much a management issue. Unfortunately the NMC code of conduct places individual responsibility on nurses.


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Somebody's in the mortuary


 
Aye, & it's always the folk who no one have ever heard of, & will be forgotten tomorrow.


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## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

Stoat Boy said:


> You would have thought that all calls to the hospital would have been moinitered anyway for all sorts of security reasons as well. I am sure that there would have been a whole host of organisations with people having the sufficent security vetting to put a couple on reception duty for the duration of the stay. MI5/MI6, Cabinet office, in fact a whole raft of Ministrys could have been used to bring in office cover or at least be there as a firewall for any incoming calls.


 
This is not how modern government works*.

* of course this should read "attempts to work"


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

agricola said:


> This is not how modern government works*.
> 
> * of course this should read "attempts to work"


 
How does Royal security work? Seeing as this hospital cares for members of the Monarchy.


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## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> A hospital for the posh might be expected to have someone other than a nurse answering phones - if you want to do it that way.


 
Well a hospital for the posh should probably be monitoring calls.

The DJ's know the buck will have had to stop somewhere, and they should know that the buck normally stops with the lowest common denominator in the scale the employment...... in this case happened to be the nurse.

There's been two cases of pranks from the radio hitting the news I can think off, and there's a massive difference between making inapropriate comments and intentionally going out of your way to cause a shit stir somewhere so high profile that it will end up ruining someones career, or in this case life.


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## killer b (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Seeing as this hospital cares for members of the Monarchy.


i suspect they've lost that contract.


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## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> How does Royal security work? Seeing as this hospital cares for members of the Monarchy.


 
Judging by this, and protestors having a go at charles/diana, obviously not very effectively......


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## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> How does Royal security work? Seeing as this hospital cares for members of the Monarchy.


 
No idea, I was just pointing out that what SB was saying should happen probably wouldnt, or even if it did it would be accompanied by huge swathes of paper flying around, most of which would be bills for a persons time.


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## YouSir (Dec 7, 2012)

The prank in itself and how she dealt with it seems fairly irrelevant, these things happen and anyone trying to lay the blame for it on anyone needs to sort their priorities out. If her death is linked to management's reaction or (social) media attacks then that's something which does merit attention - but from the stories I've seen that hasn't been confirmed, has it? If the death is unconnected then it's a fucking shame that a person's death has been framed so completely with royalist sycophancy. Especially for the family who presumably get to see constant news about their mother's death whilst being reminded that a couple of royals having a baby is _the _important issue here.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well a hospital for the posh should probably be monitoring calls.
> 
> The DJ's know the buck will have had to stop somewhere, and they should know that the buck normally stops with the lowest common denominator in the scale the employment...... in this case happened to be the nurse.
> 
> There's been two cases of pranks from the radio hitting the news I can think off, and there's a massive difference between making inapropriate comments and intentionally going out of your way to cause a shit stir somewhere so high profile that it will end up ruining someones career, or in this case life.


Sorry, this smacks of blame people for the future. Judge your targets well, sure, but don't dam all people who don't or haven't. Putting it on them is far far too easy.


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## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Sorry, this smacks of blame people for the future. Judge your targets well, sure, but don't dam all people who don't or haven't. Putting it on them is far far too easy.


 
Well these DJ's dont have a particularly good history of judging things well tbh.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/enetertainment/articles/2009/07/29/1248546762075.html


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well these DJ's dont have a particularly good history of judging things well tbh.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/enetertainment/articles/2009/07/29/1248546762075.html


What does this tell us?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well these DJ's dont have a particularly good history of judging things well tbh.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/enetertainment/articles/2009/07/29/1248546762075.html


enetertainment?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What does this tell us?


it's unlikely they'll lose their jobs this time


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

_That's enetertainment._


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## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What does this tell us?


 
That its not the first time one of their ideas for grandure and sensationalist media stories to bring them attention/promotion has backfired.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> That its not the first time one of their ideas for grandure and sensationalist media stories to bring them attention/promotion has backfired.


Which tells us what about who they 'target'?

And why it's their fault. Why this (or your other example) was them



> "intentionally going out of your way to cause a shit stir somewhere so high profile that it will end up ruining someones career, or in this case life."


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## teqniq (Dec 7, 2012)

This is just sad, sad sad. I am left wondering wtf happened that drove her to kill herself.


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## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> The prank call should have never got through. Someone who's on 100k + a year needs issuing their P45!


 
Exactly, the nurse should have not divulged confidential information but the call should never had been transferred to her in the first place.


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## Ranbay (Dec 7, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20645838


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## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Which tells us what about who they 'target'?
> 
> And why it's their fault.


 
Sorry, but pressing a 14 year old girl about other 'sexual experiences' when she's just been pressure into admitting, live on air, that she was raped at the age of 12 isn't wrong in anyway in your eyes? Is that seriously what you're saying, because that how I'm understanding your argument.

Then, going on to purposely cause a shit stir which its obvious someone is going to at least lose their job, if not be publicly humiliated is a good judgement call?

Simply put, its malicious.


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## wayward bob (Dec 7, 2012)

just tragic  her poor, poor family.


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## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

Dunno, it's hard to start talking (un)intended consequences, responsibility and all that.  Prattling DJs and royals and _all that_.  Only thing I'd add is that when the management of a radio station plans a sleb prank raid, assuming they were in on it, they should probably steer clear of things to do with medical conditions* and/or hospitals.  That's a bit of self restraint that would be nice, but is always going to be over-ridden when it's royals/slebs. 

* Haven't kept up with it, don't know if it was 'just' morning sickness or something more.


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## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Sorry, but pressing a 14 year old girl about other 'sexual experiences' when she's just been pressure into admitting, live on air, that she was raped at the age of 12 isn't wrong in anyway in your eyes? Is that seriously what you're saying, because that how I'm understanding your argument.
> 
> Then, going on to purposely cause a shit stir which its obvious someone is going to at least lose their job, if not be publicly humiliated is a good judgement call?


 

Really, that's how _you're understanding my argument?_ Then there's something wrong with you.

Amazing that you can distill discussion of this into _do you like pressuring teenage girls to say they've been raped?_ That you would use that to pin blame on these idiots for this tells me all i need to know about you both you and what you think happened here. You you need to grow up sharpish lad.


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## Roadkill (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> How does Royal security work? Seeing as this hospital cares for members of the Monarchy.


 
It does beggar belief that, even at 5am, a call about this was allowed to get as far as it did, especially when the press all over the Commonwealth are nearing the vinegars over another royal sprog. Plus, Liz and Charles have two of the most recognisable voices in the country. Sounds like the nurses in the front line were left needlessly unprepared to deal with this, and, for all that the Mail are saying the hospital was not planning disciplinary action against the nurse who took the call, chances are she'd have ended up taking the rap for the fuck-up. Couple that with the tabloids circling around trying to find someone to dish the dirt ... Poor woman. Rest in peace.


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## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

BBC reporting that the prank call is still being played on the radio in Australia, as part of a trailer for the DJ's show.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

The new birth claims its first victim.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The new birth claims its first victim.


 
Pregnancy


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Pregnancy


True


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Really, that's how you're understanding my argument? Then there's something wrong with you. Amazing that you can distill discussion of this into _do you like pressuring teenage girls to say they've been raped?_ That you would use that to pin blame on these idiots for this tells me all i need to know about you both you and what you think happened here. You you need to grow up sharpish lad.


 
Thats not what I've said is it though? You've decided to twist my words.

What im questioning is whether at any point its a. ethical to question a 14 year old about sexual experiences live on air, b. make prank calls, where its obvious that it has potential to cause a problem to someones career, (or in this case, granted, unbeknownst to the dj's led someone into a position to feel they needed to take their own life).

Im quite contented that I dont need to do much growing up in the stakes of this discussion, I'm happy that I realise the ethical responsibilities of broadcasters better than both these DJ's and yourself.

On which note work is done and I'm off home


----------



## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

It must be fucking horrible to think that you can't even go into hospital with a relatively minor complaint without someone taking their life because they fucked up and gave information away about you. How crap must that make you feel?

Fuck that for a life.

Horrible bit of news for a family, right near Christmas too


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Thats not what I've said is it though? You've decided to twist my words.
> 
> What im questioning is whether at any point its a. ethical to question a 14 year old about sexual experiences live on air, b. make prank calls, where its obvious that it has potential to cause a problem to someones career, (or in this case, granted, unbeknownst to the dj's led someone into a position to feel they needed to take their own life).
> 
> ...


Tell me where the twisting was? Or waffle on about something else. Then go home. Then have your idiocy gnawing away at you all weekend, ruining your drink tonight, your party tmw and your chilled sunday until you come back and realise that_ oh yeah, i see what he meant now._


----------



## IC3D (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The new birth claims its first victim.


*resists posting Omen pic*


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> It must be fucking horrible to think that you can't even go into hospital with a relatively minor complaint without someone taking their life because they fucked up and gave information away about you. How crap must that make you feel?
> 
> Fuck that for a life.


 
If it were Mr & Mrs Bloggs no one would have gave a fuck & Jacintha would (probably) still be alive.

Statement from the hospital - 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/973...-on-the-death-of-nurse-Jacintha-Saldanha.html


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

IC3D said:


> *resists posting Omen pic*


 Me too.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> It must be fucking horrible to think that you can't even go into hospital with a relatively minor complaint without someone taking their life because they fucked up and gave information away about you. How crap must that make you feel?
> 
> Fuck that for a life.
> o


 
They'd cling onto that life quite fiercely if the alternative was hanging from a lamppost, or exile to New Zealand.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> It must be fucking horrible to think that you can't even go into hospital with a relatively minor complaint without someone taking their life because they fucked up and gave information away about you. How crap must that make you feel?
> 
> Fuck that for a life.
> 
> Horrible bit of news for a family, right near Christmas too


for the hard of reading *she didn't give any information to anyone, she simply transferred the call*


----------



## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

What I mean is that if I knew a nurse killed herself because she fucked up in the same circumstances I'd feel shit about myself. Royal or not.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> What I mean is that if I knew a nurse killed herself because she gave information out about me in the same circumstances I'd feel shit about myself. Royal or not.


Is that why she did it then?


----------



## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

I got it arse about tit, bit like pregnancy and birth.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

Posh hospital made to look incompetent. Royals get out of there sharpish. Management give everyone a severe bollocking. Aussie hoaxers, press and social media will be blamed. The poor woman's life will be ripped apart, maybe mental health issues dredged up to 'normalise' her death. Everyone will say how terribly upset they are.


Jacintha Saldanha. R.I.P.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> Posh hospital made to look incompetent. Royals get out of there sharpish. Management give everyone a severe bollocking. Aussie hoaxers, press and social media will be blamed. The poor woman's life will be ripped apart, maybe mental health issues dredged up to 'normalise' her death. Everyone will say how terribly upset they are.
> 
> 
> Jacintha Saldanha. R.I.P.


 Yep, I'd guess various flunkies are concentrating on severing contracts and distancing themselves at the moment.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> Posh hospital made to look incompetent. Royals get out of there sharpish.


 
Maybe they'll turn a few rooms in Buck Palace into a hospital - save the hassle of having to drive phil down to road to croak it.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Why are we not good enough to recieve the same treatment as the royals?


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why are we not good enough to recieve the same treatment as the royals?


 Land, Bread and Hoax Calls!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why are we not good enough to recieve the same treatment as the royals?


 
Merry fucking Christmas!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Merry fucking Christmas!


Not the right thread for it, but i have an idea forming...


----------



## boohoo (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> What I mean is that if I knew a nurse killed herself because she fucked up in the same circumstances I'd feel shit about myself. Royal or not.


 
I get what you are saying. Would really do my head in.


----------



## Roadkill (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> It must be fucking horrible to think that you can't even go into hospital with a relatively minor complaint without someone taking their life because they fucked up and gave information away about you. How crap must that make you feel?


 
Call me too much of a liberal if you wish, but I feel a bit sorry for the royals for exactly that reason.  They live in a zoo to be gawped at forever, and have their private lives raked over by all and sundry.  I bet every time Prince Harry has had a bit too much to drink, and gets a dose of the brewer's droop with whatever young lady has thrown herself at him this week, he lives in fear of the Sun headline for weeks afterwards.  Not many other people have to put up with tabloid journalists trying to get a job in the house to dish the dirt on you (this was an old mate of mine), or shit Australian DJs ringing the hospital to try and find out if one of your family has stopped chucking up her breakfast yet.  It's no way to treat anyone.

IMO the tabloid press are the biggest hypocrites out there when it comes to royalty anyway.  They all prattle on about patriotism and the wonders of the royal family, and yet their salacious gossip has done more to undermine the monarchy than anything else.  I'm always tempted to go on the Daily Mail forums - if they still have them - and launch into a rant about how a Mail-reading monarchist is a contradiction in terms...


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Roadkill said:


> Call me too much of a liberal if you wish, but I feel a bit sorry for the royals for exactly that reason. They live in a zoo to be gawped at forever, and have their private lives raked over by all and sundry. I bet every time Prince Harry has had a bit too much to drink, and gets a dose of the brewer's droop with whatever young lady has thrown herself at him this week, he lives in fear of the Sun headline for weeks afterwards. Not many other people have to put up with tabloid journalists trying to get a job in the house to dish the dirt on you (this was an old mate of mine), or shit Australian DJs ringing the hospital to try and find out if one of your family has stopped chucking up her breakfast yet. It's no way to treat anyone.
> 
> IMO the tabloid press are the biggest hypocrites out there when it comes to royalty anyway. They all prattle on about patriotism and the wonders of the royal family, and yet their salacious gossip has done more to undermine the monarchy than anything else. I'm always tempted to go on the Daily Mail forums - if they still have them - and launch into a rant about how a Mail-reading monarchist is a contradiction in terms...


Fuck 'em both. The Black Freighter is coming.


----------



## Roadkill (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Fuck 'em both. The Black Freighter is coming.


 
I did say 'call me too much of a liberal'...


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 7, 2012)

Roadkill said:


> stopped chucking up her breakfast yet. It's no way to treat anyone.


I had the same condition during two of my pregnancies and it's really grim. I got taken into hospital when I couldn't chuck up anything more except blood and mucus  I was sick all the way through both pregnancies, morning, noon and sodding night sickness, chucking up for the last time about twenty minutes before the baby was born.


----------



## teqniq (Dec 7, 2012)

((Mrs Magpie))


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 7, 2012)

teqniq said:


> ((Mrs Magpie))


But the babies are lovely adults now  To be honest I'd forgotten about it until she went in for the same thing, and I can do nothing but sympathise. I didn't have media glare or people selling pregnant Magpie dolls either.


----------



## girasol (Dec 7, 2012)

I can't believe she killed herself, I'm actually in shock!   RIP Jacintha Saldanha (Portuguese name?)


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why are we not good enough to recieve the same treatment as the royals?


 
At least you're guaranteed access and they most likely won't let you die in the street as sometimes happens in the US.


----------



## trampie (Dec 7, 2012)

The fake call was in terrible taste and a cheap shot, the reason i thought it was a cheap shot was that i thought that it was likely that the pranksters would be responded too as if they were genuine, no receptionist/nurse could take a chance that it was a hoax.

It was a cruel joke to play, we jail people for saying nasty or racist things, that student on a social networking site over the Bolton footballer that suffered a heart attack for instance, yet something like this is worse in my book.

Nurses have got better things to do than wasting their time on prank calls, if there is a case to answer for one grown up calling another grown up names in this country then there is a case to answer for wasting a nurses time, trying to get a private medical update on a person you have no connection too and for adversely affecting a persons well being, eg the recipient of the hoax.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> At least you're guaranteed access and they most likely won't let you die in the street as sometimes happens in the US.


So what are we second class?


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 7, 2012)

How very sad. 

I tend to blame whoever was in charge of security for this one. Everyone should have known what channels information is allowed to flow through. There's a definite lack of communication and planning there.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> So what are we second class?


 
Yeah, but its still better than flying coach.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 7, 2012)




----------



## Roadkill (Dec 7, 2012)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> At least you're guaranteed access and they most likely won't let you die in the street as sometimes happens in the US.


 
Not in the King Edward VII, which is a cut above treating plebs like us.  Guaranteed access is for the NHS ... or what will be left of it in a few years.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 7, 2012)

Roadkill said:


> Not in the King Edward VII, which is a cut above treating plebs like us. Guaranteed access is for the NHS ... or what will be left of it in a few years.


 
Shocking.  Who'd have thought that the world was unequal.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Tell me where the twisting was?


 


sim667 said:


> Sorry, but pressing a 14 year old girl about other 'sexual experiences' when she's just been pressure into admitting, live on air, that she was raped at the age of 12 *isn't wrong in anyway in your eyes?* Is that seriously what you're saying, because that how I'm understanding your argument.


 


butchersapron said:


> Amazing that you can distill discussion of this into *do you like pressuring teenage girls to say they've been raped? *


 
Here you go, you've misrepresented me asking you whether you think its wrong or not, into me asking whether you 'like' it, which is not what I've actually asked.



butchersapron said:


> Or waffle on about something else. Then go home. Then have your idiocy gnawing away at you all weekend, ruining your drink tonight, your party tmw and your chilled sunday until you come back and realise that_ oh yeah, i see what he meant now._


 





Have a nice weekend
xxx


----------



## story (Dec 7, 2012)

tufty79 said:


> it is, marty.
> story's a bit confusing though - one says she was the nurse, another the receptionist?


 

BBC say she answered the phone cos the receptionist was absent.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Here you go, you've misrepresented me asking you whether you think its wrong or not, into me asking whether you 'like' it, which is not what I've actually asked.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice bold. Sort of proves my point.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 7, 2012)

DJs have been sacked according to twitter.

Edit: they will 'not return until further notice' apparently - so not sacked exactly.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Why are we not good enough to recieve the same treatment as the royals?


 
My mum broke her hip about the same time as the queen mother did, at similar age. The queen mum was up and doing hurdles in about 2 months after the care she got, my mum never healed properly and never recovered.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 7, 2012)

Is it an offence to impersonate another person in order to attempt to get confidential information from someone?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 7, 2012)

Barking_Mad said:


> Is it an offence to impersonate another person in order to attempt to get confidential information from someone?


 
Yes, IIRC. But it depends on the value of the information - if there's no loss to the disclosing party, there's no offence.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 7, 2012)

I don't think they'll end up being extradited.


----------



## Callie (Dec 7, 2012)

firky said:


> I argued like fuck on Facebook about this, people were blaming her and saying she is entirely at fault.
> 
> A nurse is there to administer care. Not to vet the identity of callers who have been transferred from the switchboard to her. The police, MI5 or even the Palace should have instructed the hospital staff and warned them of such hoaxes.
> 
> ...


 
Who was blaming her?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 7, 2012)

BBC:


> The Twitter accounts of both presenters have now been deleted while the BBC's Duncan Kennedy, in Sydney, said it was difficult to get on the 2Day FM website.


 
This is far worse than the Andrew Sachs thing. And look at the shitstorm that happened over that. Choppy waters ahead for those DJs I reckon.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

To recap: the foul windsors have blood on their hands

The call may have come from the antipodes, but the suicide can, I believe, be laid at the feet of the former saxe-coburg-gothas


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 7, 2012)

It's probably not the Windsors, it'll be all the flunkies and handlers of 'protocol' that will be passing the buck over who takes the wrap.

It's so overblown..this 'sensitive information' - what was it? "She's had a quiet night, and Wills has gone home". OMG! WORLD NEWS! Any other situation, an actual non hoax caller would be grateful for the nurse's reassurance.


----------



## cliche guevara (Dec 7, 2012)

Callie said:


> Who was blaming her?


Thousands of cunts on facebook and twitter.


----------



## Flanflinger (Dec 7, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> To recap: the foul windsors have blood on their hands
> 
> The call may have come from the antipodes, but the suicide can, I believe, be laid at the feet of the former saxe-coburg-gothas


 
Never had you down as a cospiraloon.

But then again........................


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

Flanflinger said:


> Never had you down as a cospiraloon.
> 
> But then again........................


no loonery involved. i just believe that the royal family said 'we'll take our business elsewhere if she remains on your establishment' and it was made clear to her that the p45 would shortly be in the post.

if you know different, pls post it up


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Well these DJ's dont have a particularly good history of judging things well tbh.
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/enetertainment/articles/2009/07/29/1248546762075.html


Eh? That (vile) incident was two different DJs.

Now Sandilands and Jackie O should have been sacked but their exploits are in a totally different league to what happened here.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Eh? That (vile) incident was two different DJs.
> 
> Now Sandilands and Jackie O should have been sacked but their exploits are in total different league to what happened here.


Wow, well done simmo.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 7, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> no loonery involved. i just believe that the royal family said 'we'll take our business elsewhere if she remains on your establishment' and it was made clear to her that the p45 would shortly be in the post.
> 
> if you know different, pls post it up


 
I haven't seen any evidence of that, do you have any links?


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

I note the Mail have a picture up on their website of this poor womans family home (in Bristol), so presumably she or someone in her family was doorstepped at some point this week.


----------



## teqniq (Dec 7, 2012)

And just what 'Public interest' is there in the family home in Bristol? Cunts.


----------



## Roadkill (Dec 7, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> no loonery involved. i just believe that the royal family said 'we'll take our business elsewhere if she remains on your establishment' and it was made clear to her that the p45 would shortly be in the post.
> 
> if you know different, pls post it up


 
Tbf the hospital could have started talking about P45s without so much as a hint from the Windsors. No business likes to lose a good customer, after all.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> Eh? That (vile) incident was two different DJs.
> 
> Now Sandilands and Jackie O should have been sacked but their exploits are in a totally different league to what happened here.



Oooops.


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 7, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I haven't seen any evidence of that, do you have any links?


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I haven't seen any evidence of that, do you have any links?


Hard to say. Don't think it's being overly speculative to suggest the careers of anyone involved in receiving the call would have been given up by the hospital (to hang on to royal patronage). Whether that would have been _demanded_ by the royals or _offered up_ by the hospital is hard to say. Of course we'll never know now because if that was happening, both sides have a shared interest in keeping it under wraps.  Ironically, this might have saved the jobs of the other nurse who answered the actual call.    Bottom line is, you don't want to cross the royal machine. Pretty much the only phone hacker imprisoned till the Millie Dowler case was a royal correspondent.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Oooops.


That's it?


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Wow, well done simmo.



At least It wasn't intentional misrepresentation eh? 

My names sim, btw


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> At least It wasn't intentional misrepresentation eh?


Because you've not got the brains to do that. Glory glory and more glory on you and your posts. try to though.Get the people involved right next time


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Pretty much the only phone hacker imprisoned till the Millie Dowler case was a royal correspondent.


 
That was more because there was no way that they could have intimidated away / bought off / ignored Prince William's complaints that his phone had been hacked, so they (or rather Goodman and Mulcaire) had to take it on the chin.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Because you've not got the brains to do that. Glory glory and more glory on you and your posts. try to though.Get the people involved right next time



Personal insults + patronisation + misrepresentation + someone else pointing out something you didn't notice = brains.

Brilliant


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

agricola said:


> That was more because there was no way that they could have intimidated away / bought off / ignored Prince William's complaints that his phone had been hacked, so they (or rather Goodman and Mulcaire) had to take it on the chin.


Maybe, but it always seemed symbolic that was the line you couldn't cross/phone you couldn't hack.  Throughout the whole saga their prison time was a kind of symbolic anomaly.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Personal insults + patronisation + misrepresentation + someone else pointing out something you didn't notice = brains.
> 
> Brilliant


No insults. You identified a as b. Then you attacked a for being b. The you were told that a wasn't b. Well done. This is not an insult. It's an _appreciation_.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I haven't seen any evidence of that, do you have any links?


You haven't seen any evidence of my belief? I just fucking told you my belief you thick fuck. What more evidence of my belief do you want?


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Really, that's how _you're understanding my argument?_ Then there's something wrong with you.
> 
> Amazing that you can distill discussion of this into _do you like pressuring teenage girls to say they've been raped?_ That you would use that to pin blame on these idiots for this tells me all i need to know about you both you and what you think happened here. You you need to grow up sharpish lad.



Patronising cunt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

Roadkill said:


> Tbf the hospital could have started talking about P45s without so much as a hint from the Windsors. No business likes to lose a good customer, after all.


Yes. But I suspect the malign influence of the mountbatten-windsors


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Patronising cunt.


You still need to grow up sharpish, lad


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

> Sorry, but pressing a 14 year old girl about other 'sexual experiences' when she's just been pressure into admitting, live on air, that she was raped at the age of 12 isn't wrong in anyway in your eyes? Is that seriously what you're saying, because that how I'm understanding your argument.


 
Whose argument? Take it slowly this time simmo.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

(((( Suicide thread gone bad  ))))


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Patronising cunt.


What perfect timing. On weekend release are we?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

Wilf said:


> (((( Suicide thread gone bad  ))))


Do you mean it's rotting?


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> No insults. You identified a as b. Then you attacked a for being b. The you were told that a wasn't b. Well done. This is not an insult. It's an _appreciation_.





> You you need to grow up sharpish lad.



You may think of this as 'advice', but I take it as a patronising insult.

I'm sure you'll be be back for the last word yet


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> You may think of this as 'advice', but I take it as a patronising insult.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be be back for the last word yet


Wow, i'm vicious. 




			
				me said:
			
		

> you need to grow up sharpish lad.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

Fucking nora.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> You may think of this as 'advice', but I take it as a patronising insult.
> 
> I'm sure you'll be be back for the last word yet


You know this is me and not some other unconnected person that lives in the same country that you're talking to right?


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 7, 2012)

In all the coverage about this hoax I don't suppose any tabloid journalists will mention that they're not exactly above pretending to be relatives/police officers/other medical staff when people they view as 'good stories' - forget 'celebrities' or royals, just ordinary folk whom something awful has happened to - are admitted to hospital.

We don't have a clue what else was going on in this poor woman's life that may have contributed, but I find it hard to believe the hospital wouldn't have started some kind of disciplinary process, it's too high profile and embarrassing for them. Not that I agree that they should, but this is how institutions and management hierarchies work.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You know this is me and not some other unconnected person that lives in the same country that you're talking to right?



I don't know who you are or where you come from, to be completely frank. It makes no difference to me.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Fucking nora.



I'll unsubscribe from the thread, keep it on topic like.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 7, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> In all the coverage about this hoax I don't suppose any tabloid journalists will mention that they're not exactly above pretending to be relatives/police officers/other medical staff when people they view as 'good stories' - forget 'celebrities' or royals, just ordinary folk whom something awful has happened to - are admitted to hospital.
> 
> We don't have a clue what else was going on in this poor woman's life that may have contributed, but I find it hard to believe the hospital wouldn't have started some kind of disciplinary process, it's too high profile and embarrassing for them. Not that I agree that they should, but this is how institutions and management hierarchies work.


 
Excellent post.

Such a really sad situation


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 7, 2012)

I think we can be pretty sure what we'll get out of this.

* "This sort of prank call is entirely irresponsible and can lead to very serious unintended outcomes"
* "It's such a shame that the wonderful news of a royal spawning has been overshadowed by this tragic event"
* "Public scrutiny of the role Twitter and social networking plays has increased, reinforcing calls for regulation"


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Dec 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What perfect timing. On weekend release are we?



Hahaha, brilliant. You clearly mean something by this. Fuck knows what. Maybe you'll tell me I'm drunk again when I'm not, and that I should go to bed? That would be fucking devastating. Especially coming from the king of pissed up arseholes himself.

As well as being a cock end to sim for no fucking reason at all (is there really a need to be so overly aggressive all the time? No ones scared, impressed, or even interested...), you are once again failing to make a coherent point. Why should no one blame the Aussie cunts for doing a practical joke that would clearly have had repercussions on an innocent worker if it went brought as planned? Stop trying to have opinions that are cleverer and more insightful than everyone else's. it's obvious, and twice as predictable as those you are trying to make look predictable. You massive arse.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> In all the coverage about this hoax I don't suppose any tabloid journalists will mention that they're not exactly above pretending to be relatives/police officers/other medical staff when people they view as 'good stories' - forget 'celebrities' or royals, just ordinary folk whom something awful has happened to - are admitted to hospital.
> 
> We don't have a clue what else was going on in this poor women's life that may have contributed, but I find it hard to believe the hospital wouldn't have started some kind of disciplinary process, it's too high profile and embarrassing for them. Not that I agree that I should, but this is how institutions and management hierarchies work.


 

'We don't have a clue what else was going on in this poor women's (sic) life that may have contributed..'

Here we fucking go....


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 7, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> 'We don't have a clue what else was going on in this poor women's (sic) life that may have contributed..'
> 
> Here we fucking go....


 
WTF. We don't. It's not exactly contentious.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 7, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> WTF. We don't. It's not exactly contentious.


 
No, it was a perfectly reasonable and sensible post.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> 'We don't have a clue what else was going on in this poor women's (sic) life that may have contributed..'
> 
> Here we fucking go....


I read that bit of lagtbd's post as no more than a 'we just don't know' style qualification.


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 7, 2012)

Wilf said:


> I read that bit of lagtbd's post as no more than a 'we just don't know' style qualification.


 
Exactly. I'm finding it hard to understand what more there is to read into it.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

Wilf said:


> I read that bit of lagtbd's post as no more than a 'we just don't know' style qualification.


 
So did I, but still 'Here we fucking go'..


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## two sheds (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm with Buckaroo on this one - "women's" ffs


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## Plumdaff (Dec 7, 2012)

two sheds said:


> I'm with Buckaroo on this one - "women's" ffs


 
I'd just put a seven month old to bed and anyway I've fucking corrected it. Stop being such a tiresome pedant or I'll post my conspiracy theory involving Simon Cowell (sic), the reptilian display at London Zoo and Catford CID and really make Buckaroo's evening.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 7, 2012)

two sheds said:


> I'm with Buckaroo on this one - "women's" ffs


They'll be more careful on the headstone, I'm sure.


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## two sheds (Dec 7, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> I'd just put a seven month old to bed and anyway I've fucking corrected it. Stop being such a tiresome pedant or I'll post my conspiracy theory involving Simon Cowell, the reptilian display at London Zoo and Catford CID and really make Buckarro's evening.


 
Want! Post or stfu.


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## Plumdaff (Dec 7, 2012)

That will be me shutting up until I've drank considerably more (tea, note seven month old). At which point my spelling will be truly atrocious.


----------



## AverageJoe (Dec 7, 2012)

> Why should no one blame the Aussie cunts for doing a practical joke that would clearly have had repercussions on an innocent worker if it went brought as planned?


 
If I played a practical joke at work that led to the death of someone, I'd probably be in a lot of trouble. Even if I was just messing about and "having a laugh"


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## Pat24 (Dec 7, 2012)

This is so sad. I was so shocked when I heard it on the news earlier. RIP.


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## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

Shit, sorry! not one for being pedantic (well i am if everyone else is?) anyway bollocks, not that it matters, fuck it but some poor lass has topped herself cos of this royal shitstorm. why did she take her own life, because of some fucking horrendous shitstorm of pressure from a posh, high profile hospital that fucked up along with the extensive public relations and security squad of fuckwits that protect the royal foetus? Or because of other 'contributing ' factors in her life? That's all i meant. Here we fucking go...


----------



## Firky (Dec 7, 2012)

Friday night cat crash


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 7, 2012)

Aye


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## Random (Dec 7, 2012)

Another reason to oppose private healthcare. Little fiefs run for the benefit of anxious rich overlords.


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## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> WTF. We don't. It's not exactly contentious.


 
Why bring in what else might have been going on her life?


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 7, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> Why bring in what else might have been going on her life?


 
Because despite what you or I think, or what may at this point appear completely self-evident, this shit storm may have been right at the bottom of a very long list of reasons why she may have made this sad decision. And because I didn't know her, and you didn't know her, it's silly to assume that we can definitely say why this happened without adding the caveat that no-one can ever know, because she won't tell us. I was once involved with an apparent cut and dried suicide which ended up being a murder (not that I'm suggesting that's what happened here, just that everyone involved in that was so sure and utterly wrong). Generally, people who face crises like this don't kill themselves so it's reasonable enough to assume other factors may have contributed.

So I think it's reasonable to state that none of us can ever know, only speculate, no matter how much it may be tempting to blame the whole royal charade and impersonal unpleasant management.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> Because despite what you or I think, or what may at this point appear completely self-evident, this shit storm may have been right at the bottom of a very long list of reasons why she may have made this sad decision. And because I didn't know her, and you didn't know her, it's silly to assume that we can definitely say why this happened without adding the caveat that no-one can ever know, because she won't tell us. I was once involved with an absolute cut and dried suicide which ended up being a murder (not that I'm suggesting that's what happened here, just that everyone involved in that was so sure and utterly wrong). Generally, people who face crises like this don't kill themselves so it's reasonable enough to assume other factors may have contributed.
> 
> So I think it's reasonable to state that none of us can ever know, only speculate, no matter how much it may be tempting to blame the whole royal charade and impersonal unpleasant management.


 

Right, fair enough, I didn't know her and I can't imagine what crises like this would do to some people because I don't know what the crisis was? When you say that generally people who face this kind of crisis don't kill themselves, I have no idea what 'It's reasonable enough to assume other factors may have contributed' means. At the same time time I don't think it's conspiraloon stuff to link recent events with her suicide. It's not that 'we can never know' but if you're saying that that death of this woman is unconnected to recent events then I think you're wrong. Anyway, no matter how much it may be tempting to blame this woman's death on 'contributing factors' as opposed to the royal charade and management, I think that idea is disgraceful. What? It's just a fucking coincidence? As soon as I heard about this I felt it wouldn't be long before people started to explain the death of Jacintha Sandlahan  in terms of 'contributing factors', ripping her life apart to find other reasons for her suicide. That's why I said

Here we fucking go....


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 7, 2012)

I didn't read it as lagtbd saying it was unconnected or that it's a coincidence.


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 7, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> Right, fair enough, I didn't know her and I can't imagine what crises like this would do to some people because I don't know what the crisis was? When you say that generally people who face this kind of crisis don't kill themselves, I have no idea what 'It's reasonable enough to assume other factors may have contributed' means. At the same time time I don't think it's conspiraloon stuff to link recent events with her suicide. It's not that 'we can never know' but if you're saying that that death of this woman is unconnected to recent events then I think you're wrong. Anyway, no matter how much it may be tempting to blame this woman's death on 'contributing factors' as opposed to the royal charade and management, I think that idea is disgraceful. What? It's just a fucking coincidence? As soon as I heard about this I felt it wouldn't be long before people started to explain the death of Jacintha Sandlahan in terms of 'contributing factors', ripping her life apart to find other reasons for her suicide. That's why I said
> 
> Here we fucking go....


 
You seem to have been very selective in your reading, or maybe you've for whatever reason misunderstood. My very first post talks about her likely ill treatment by management. I'm not discounting anything but nor am I saying we can definitively know. I think it's abundantly clear what I meant, but still, off you fucking go...


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I didn't read it as lagtbd saying it was unconnected or that it's a coincidence.


 

Because he/she said that  'This shit storm may have been right at the bottom of a very long list of reasons why she might have made this sad decision.'


----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 7, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> Because he/she said that 'This shit storm may have been right at the bottom of a very long list of reasons why she might have made this sad decision.'


 
And you read that as "this shit storm was at the very bottom of the list of reasons she made this sad decision, and had nothing to do with it"


----------



## Barking_Mad (Dec 7, 2012)

You put in all the hard work to become a nurse, the training and hours spent on wards treating patients. You're proud of the job you do and the reputation and respect of your colleagues. Then some Australian radio station plays this prank on you, and although people are nice to you about what happened and the management have a 'word in your ear' about what you did, you feel embarrassed to have 'let down the Royal family' and distraught to see your actions played out across the media, on newspaper front pages and tv and radio headlines.

You fear that your name being exposed will stop you getting another job because it will stick with people and whatever you do you will be remembered as 'one of the nurses who was involved in that Australian radio hoax'. The sensitivity that makes you a good nurse works the other way when you make a serious mistake and you feel like you've let down your friend and family. It's not difficult to imagine that for some certain individuals this kind of jape for the benefit of a quick laugh could cause some serious issues - even if the result is not suicide. 

This was not playing a joke on the Royal Family, it was a 'joke' at the expense of two nurses put in difficult situations. Id spare a thought for the other nurse who took the call put thought by her now dead colleague. I hope she's getting the support she deserves.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 7, 2012)

Barking_Mad said:


> distraught to see your actions played out across the media, on newspaper front pages and tv and radio headlines.


...plus the Mail published a photo of her house. They were probably getting doorstepped too.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 7, 2012)

Great start to the post-Leveson responsible newspaper era. Lasted even less time that the Mail promising it wouldn't use paparazzi photos ever again.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 7, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> Because he/she said that  'This shit storm may have been right at the bottom of a very long list of reasons why she might have made this sad decision.'



Yes, and...?


----------



## smokedout (Dec 7, 2012)

Barking_Mad said:


> You put in all the hard work to become a nurse, the training and hours spent on wards treating patients. You're proud of the job you do and the reputation and respect of your colleagues. Then some Australian radio station plays this prank on you, and although people are nice to you about what happened and the management have a 'word in your ear' about what you did, you feel embarrassed to have 'let down the Royal family' and distraught to see your actions played out across the media, on newspaper front pages and tv and radio headlines.
> 
> You fear that your name being exposed will stop you getting another job because it will stick with people and whatever you do you will be remembered as 'one of the nurses who was involved in that Australian radio hoax'. The sensitivity that makes you a good nurse works the other way when you make a serious mistake and you feel like you've let down your friend and family. It's not difficult to imagine that for some certain individuals this kind of jape for the benefit of a quick laugh could cause some serious issues - even if the result is not suicide.
> 
> This was not playing a joke on the Royal Family, it was a 'joke' at the expense of two nurses put in difficult situations. Id spare a thought for the other nurse who took the call put thought by her now dead colleague. I hope she's getting the support she deserves.


 
even when you coat it in sentiment it barely sounds plausible


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 7, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> And you read that as "this shit storm was at the very bottom of the list of reasons she made this sad decision, and had nothing to do with it"


 

You're right, that's exactly what I read it as. I was more struck by the fact that she had taken her own life than the reasons why. My 'Here we fucking go' line is for 'them' not you. Apologies for that interpretation but I feel 'Contributing factors' will contanimate the grief as a tabloid excuse. Hope not.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 7, 2012)

tabloid excuse, here we fucking go


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## CyberRose (Dec 7, 2012)

This seems to be turning into a bit of an Aussies vs Pommies match. The Australian media, from what I've seen, have made a fairly big deal (almost to the point of defensiveness) about the amount of abuse the DJs have received on Facebook and Twitter, and having read quite a bit of the Facebook messages a fair few are taking it out on Australians as a whole (maybe that's what their media is reacting to?).


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## fakeplasticgirl (Dec 7, 2012)

Tragic 

the minute I read the original story my gut feeling was to feel sick for the nurses - publicly humiliated by the world media

really sad, RIP


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 7, 2012)

smokedout said:


> even when you coat it in sentiment it barely sounds plausible


 
It wasn't meant to be sentimental, it was an attempt at empathy - to try and understand that *maybe* for some people the actions of a 'joke' played out in a scale for millions to see and read about *might* be too much to take. Others will shrug it off and get on with life - but the point was the prank didn't, and due to its nature couldn't begin to take account of the effects on who it was targeting.

This wasn't a joke at the expense of The Royals, it was at the expense of two nurses trying to do their jobs. If the people who thought this up and allowed it to be broadcast didn't realise this at the time, they do now.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Dec 7, 2012)

Barking_Mad said:


> It wasn't meant to be sentimental, it was an attempt at empathy - to try and understand that *maybe* for some people the actions of a 'joke' played out in a scale for millions to see and read about *might* be too much to take. Others will shrug it off and get on with life but the point was the prank didn't, and due to its nature couldn't begin to take account of the effects on who it was targeting.
> 
> This wasn't a joke at the expense of The Royals, it was at the expense of two nurses trying to do their jobs. If the people who thought this up and allowed it to be broadcast didn't realise this at the time, they do now.


agreed, you dont have to have "underlying issues" to have found it all too much, being sensitive is probably enough.


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## smokedout (Dec 7, 2012)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> agreed, you dont have to have "underlying issues" to have found it all too much, being sensitive is probably enough.


 
so why doesnt it happen all the time?


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## fakeplasticgirl (Dec 7, 2012)

smokedout said:


> so why doesnt it happen all the time?


most people arent publicly humiliated by the media all the time?


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 7, 2012)

I suspect that the fact that a picture of her family home was stuck up in the Mail (I wouldn't be surprised if her family were harassed by doorstepping journalists either) well, that might also have been a factor.


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## smokedout (Dec 7, 2012)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> most people arent publicly humiliated by the media all the time?


 
have you ever read a newspaper?


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 7, 2012)

smokedout said:


> so why doesnt it happen all the time?



Most pranks don't involve the Royal family and being humiliated for 'not doing your job properly' in the face of a national and international news story? May she had other things going on in her life that made it harder to take? Either way it was a cheap joke. 

I fuck up at work, and it's bad enough handling that with anxiety issues without it being plastered all over the news.


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## fakeplasticgirl (Dec 7, 2012)

smokedout said:


> have you ever read a newspaper?


you have a funny definition of "most" people


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## smokedout (Dec 7, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I suspect that the fact that a picture of her family home was stuck up in the Mail (I wouldn't be surprised if her family were harassed by doorstepping journalists either) well, that might also have been a factor.


 
well it might.  but in any case, whilst this is very sad, that kind of extreme reaction is exceptional, especially if it its the only factor involved

no reason to try and hunt down people (who already probably feel as shit as the nurse did) to blame


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## CyberRose (Dec 7, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I suspect that the fact that a picture of her family home was stuck up in the Mail (I wouldn't be surprised if her family were harassed by doorstepping journalists either) well, that might also have been a factor.


Do you know if there are any links to that (or in any other newspapers that did that)? One of their headlines today is: "'You have her blood on your hands': World horrified by sick pranksters who boasted even as tragedy unfolded - and now they've been taken off air". Ironic considering that this might not have happened if it weren't for what the British press blew it up into...(not excusing the 'prank', of course)


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 7, 2012)

CyberRose said:


> Do you know if there are any links to that


What, links to the pic in the Mail?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 7, 2012)

CyberRose said:


> Do you know if there are any links to that (or in any other newspapers that did that)? One of their headlines today is: "'You have her blood on your hands': World horrified by sick pranksters who boasted even as tragedy unfolded - and now they've been taken off air". Ironic considering that this might not have happened if it weren't for what the British press blew it up into...(not excusing the 'prank', of course)


& it wouldn't have happened without 'the firm' pushing the initial story


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## Buckaroo (Dec 8, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> & it wouldn't have happened without 'the firm' pushing the initial story


 

And they got out of there so fast. She was still looking a bit pale. Should've been in there for weeks.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> And they got out of there so fast. She was still looking a bit pale. Should've been in there for weeks.


I was only in overnight, despite vomiting blood.


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## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

CyberRose said:


> Do you know if there are any links to that (or in any other newspapers that did that)? One of their headlines today is: "'You have her blood on your hands': World horrified by sick pranksters who boasted even as tragedy unfolded - and now they've been taken off air". Ironic considering that this might not have happened if it weren't for what the British press blew it up into...(not excusing the 'prank', of course)



I'm treading carefully here, but why should the prank not be excused? It was a prank, albeit one played in what has turned out to be a very, very high stakes game. Someone played a dumbass joke, which has backfired appallingly. Somehow, through the tortuous and circuitous channels of international media opprobrium, management strong arming and, quite possibly, individual self-doubt and fear, someone has ended up dead.

We've all chuckled at such things before; they're usually pretty harmless. There's a yawning gulf between some radio station in Oz doing something like that for the shits and giggles, where the actual 'doing it' is what they're after, and impersonating somebody in order to access sensitive information such as the normal practises pre-Leverson.

I'm probably going to get flamed to fuck for this, but I don't necessarily see a massive problem with what the radio station did....


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 8, 2012)

smokedout said:


> so why doesnt it happen all the time?


 
People commit suicide every day.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 8, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> People commit suicide every day.


 
not because they got in  shit at work and someone took a picture of their house they dont


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I was only in overnight, despite vomiting blood.


 

Right, I just based that on an assumption from your post about being sick all the way through the pregnancy. Feel a bit more empathy for them now, not much mind but still, I think they got her out sharpish when the hoax call happened. What's the treatment, if any?


----------



## Callie (Dec 8, 2012)

smokedout said:


> not because they got in  shit at work and someone took a picture of their house they dont


 they probably do do it fairly regularly because a simple mistake could cost them their job or they fear it could.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

IV fluids for dehydration and I got an injection that stopped the vomiting for a few hours. Enough to get some sleep but really you just learn to manage it. To be honest, when you're pregnant (and in my case working full-time) you want to get home as soon as possible. I didn't discharge myself though, I'd just got to the sorry state of continuous vomiting, like an awful loop.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Dec 8, 2012)

smokedout said:


> not because they got in shit at work and someone took a picture of their house they dont


how do you know why people commit suicide?

anyway, i dont blame the moronic djs. the mass media were all over it like a rash.


----------



## quimcunx (Dec 8, 2012)

smokedout said:


> not because they got in shit at work and someone took a picture of their house they dont


 
They do it for all sorts of reasons.  We're just not privy to them all.  There are connections between feeling shame, guilt, humiliation, unable to face family and friends and suicide. For instance losing your company and therefore your sense of identity as a successful businessman and your method of keeping your family in the manner to which it is accustomed etc.  Maybe there is a difference in cultural attitudes which made her feel this more keenly than others might.  Dunno.


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## Buckaroo (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> IV fluids for dehydration and I got an injection that stopped the vomiting for a few hours. Enough to get some sleep but really you just learn to manage it. To be honest, when you're pregnant (and in my case working full-time)you want to get home as soon as possible. I didn't discharge myself though, I'd just got to the sorry state of continuous vomiting, like an awful loop.


 

I would 'like' that but doesn't seem appropriate...and I can't find the right emoticon for continuous loop of vomiting......


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)




----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 8, 2012)




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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> I can't find the right emoticon for continuous loop of vomiting......


It was this that made me laugh...and it was a long time ago, my youngest is 23 so in many ways it's almost like it happened to somebody else. Obviously I didn't feel detached at the time (although I do remember feeling my stomach might detach at any moment).


----------



## cesare (Dec 8, 2012)

.


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## smokedout (Dec 8, 2012)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> how do you know why people commit suicide?


 
you seem to


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 8, 2012)

Nope! still can't find the right one! Shouldn't be too hard, projectile vomiting smiley face thing?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

I hadn't got the energy to manage the projectile bit.


----------



## Callie (Dec 8, 2012)

smokedout said:


> you seem to


 or she can sympathise with the probable thoughts and feelings of someone in that position. It's not too difficult too see the huge impact that small mistakes could cause in a situation like what has happened. All the shit and turmoil exacerbated by the fact that everyone knows because of the media involvement.


----------



## Buckaroo (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I hadn't got the energy to manage the projectile bit.


 

Too lazy to throw up properly more like! Definitely don't know smiley face thing for that!  will have to do.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Dec 8, 2012)

smokedout said:


> you seem to


no i dont, i said it was possible to see why such a nasty situation could lead to somebody not being able to cope.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 8, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> The new birth claims its first victim.


 
Yes, the blame must be laid at the feet of William and Catherine, because of the pregnancy. Obviously, they didn't think it through.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 8, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> BBC:
> 
> 
> This is far worse than the Andrew Sachs thing. And look at the shitstorm that happened over that. Choppy waters ahead for those DJs I reckon.


 
Maybe the radio industry as a whole will rethink the whole prank call thing, where the object is to get some cheap yuks by making some unsuspecting person look like a fool.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 8, 2012)

Will the Daily Mail have 'blood on their hands' if one of these DJ's ends up topping themselves? Because as far as I can see, what the DM are doing is far more likely to result in a suicide than the making of a prank call.


----------



## thriller (Dec 8, 2012)

She was defo under pressure from her bosses. It's obvious. Reading the BBC news website, when the call was first made, the journalist indicated the hosptial bosses were "fumming" at falling for the prank. The first thing you do is think about your reputation and it believed it's reputation had taken a hit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2012)

thriller said:


> She was defo under pressure from her bosses. It's obvious. Reading the BBC news website, when the call was first made, the journalist indicated the hosptial bosses were "fumming" at falling for the prank. The first thing you do is think about your reputation and it believed it's reputation had taken a hit.


& if yr most prestigious clients have a word, then...


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Yes, the blame must be laid at the feet of William and Catherine, because of the pregnancy. Obviously, they didn't think it through.


Strange how you quote ba but you don't quote my post about the royal family having blood on its hands on the first page of this thread


----------



## thriller (Dec 8, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> & if yr most prestigious clients have a word, then...


 
I can just picture it. A royal spokesmen informing the hospital of Her Majestesy's "displeasure" and scapegoat search immediately begins.....


----------



## teqniq (Dec 8, 2012)

Even if it were true, there's no way of proving it unless someone in the hospital admin has a fit of remorse.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2012)

teqniq said:


> Even if it were true, there's no way of proving it unless someone in the hospital admin has a fit of remorse.


Their fit of remorse may have nothing to do with this incident, it may be unrelated


----------



## teqniq (Dec 8, 2012)

@ Pickman's Sorry I am not following you


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2012)

teqniq said:


> @ Pickman's Sorry I am not following you


And i'm pleased to hear it. I have sufficient stalkers already.


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## teqniq (Dec 8, 2012)

hahaha  but seriously what do you mean?


----------



## CyberRose (Dec 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I'm treading carefully here, but why should the prank not be excused?


I like pranks and find them funny, but in this case they were messing with someone's life and career - that's going too far. Not only did they think it funny to mess with someone's life they were also they doing that in front of the whole world (resulting in pictures taken of the nurse's house - again, something inexcusable). The hospital says she was not suspended or disciplined, but how long does it take for disciplinary procedures to even start let alone finish? Within three days from the original offence? I'm pretty sure she got a bollocking and who knows if she was expecting procedures to start against her?


----------



## girasol (Dec 8, 2012)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Will the Daily Mail have 'blood on their hands' if one of these DJ's ends up topping themselves? Because as far as I can see, what the DM are doing is far more likely to result in a suicide than the making of a prank call.


 
Quoted because - well, it's a point worth making again and again and again.

Not in a million years would the foolish DJs ever guess a silly prank call would end up in someone's death


----------



## mattie (Dec 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I'm treading carefully here, but why should the prank not be excused? It was a prank, albeit one played in what has turned out to be a very, very high stakes game. Someone played a dumbass joke, which has backfired appallingly. Somehow, through the tortuous and circuitous channels of international media opprobrium, management strong arming and, quite possibly, individual self-doubt and fear, someone has ended up dead.
> 
> We've all chuckled at such things before; they're usually pretty harmless. There's a yawning gulf between some radio station in Oz doing something like that for the shits and giggles, where the actual 'doing it' is what they're after, and impersonating somebody in order to access sensitive information such as the normal practises pre-Leverson.
> 
> I'm probably going to get flamed to fuck for this, but I don't necessarily see a massive problem with what the radio station did....


 
My fundamental opposition to their act is that they're pranking a nurse, and pranking her on what they must surely know will be an internationally visible level. The involvement of the royal family is a sideline to all this, they've not been pranked, the nurse has, which is what is so tasteless.

It's not simply the fact that she's in a caring vocation, it's the fact that she's not courted publicity and therefore she's an entirely unwilling participant in all this. She's humiliated on a very public stage and placed in a very tricky professional position* - which the DJs must have had some idea would be the case - simply for their shits and giggles and ratings and career.

I personally find that unacceptable. I personally find it quite cowardly.


Of course, blaming the DJs for the suicide is a colossal stretch. They didn't lead the media storm that arose (eta: assuming this is a factor in the poor woman's suicide). But I think it's fair to say they lit the kindling, and they can't have been so naive (I'd hope not, given they work in media) as to think the nurse wouldn't get both barrels from bosses and press.

Just to add context, I've no bother with those who have placed themselves on a pedestal being mocked. I'm even not that fussed about bystanders being pranked as long as some degree of choice and anonymity is involved - think trigger-happy TV - but this whole prank involved specific telephone calls to specific people.


*my wife's a nurse and understands precisely what happens when you break patient confidentiality - it's actually a pretty impersonal process, but pretty onerous and not a pleasant place to be. Given the PR implications for the hospital, I'd say it would be a dreadful place to be.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

I've looked at the track record of the Radio Station....not impressive at all. They've breeched guidelines lots of times and I suspect they'll be taken off the air permanently.


----------



## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's probably not the Windsors, it'll be all the flunkies and handlers of 'protocol' that will be passing the buck over who takes the wrap.
> 
> It's so overblown..this 'sensitive information' - what was it? "She's had a quiet night, and Wills has gone home". OMG! WORLD NEWS! Any other situation, an actual non hoax caller would be grateful for the nurse's reassurance.


Was that all that was said? Where's the "confidential medical information" then? That's the type of thing that any ward nurse would have said in an NHS hospital too. Then if they wanted to know any more detail, they'd tell them to visit in person, or checked with the patient first.

If that's really all that was disclosed, then the weight of responsibility lies more with the British media for the ridiculous reaction than 2Day FM.


----------



## Reno (Dec 8, 2012)

When they did their prank call the 'queens voice' the broadcaster did was so rubbish, they probably would have expected to have the phone put down on them rather quickly by a receptionist. Before the nurses death I couldn't quite see what the big deal was, like with most royal stories and it seemed like no real harm was done. No actual confidential medical information was passed on. I do feel desperately sorry for the nurse, but nobody could have known it would come to this and if she had not died, this would have been forgotten rather quickly. Hindsight is a powerful thing, but I still don't see the broadcasters as any big villains in this. It was unfortunate that no real receptionist was available at the time.


----------



## Giles (Dec 8, 2012)

It's sad, but I do not think that all this talk of people "having blood on their hands" whether the Aussie radio presenters or the Royals is justified.

It was a silly hoax call, there was no sane reason for this woman to top herself over it.

Giles..


----------



## CyberRose (Dec 8, 2012)

Reno said:


> When they did their prank call the 'queens voice' the broadcaster did was so rubbish, they probably would have expected to have the phone put down on them rather quickly by a receptionist. Before the nurses death I couldn't quite see what the big deal was, like with most royal stories and it seemed like no real harm was done. No actual confidential medical information was passed on. I do feel desperately sorry for the nurse, but nobody could have known it would come to this and if she had not died, this would have been forgotten rather quickly. Hindsight is a powerful thing, but I still don't see the broadcasters as any big villains in this. It was unfortunate that no real receptionist was available at the time.


I agree they couldn't have possibly thought somebody would commit suicide from the prank, but they must have known there was the possibility to get somebody in the shit with their job from it...


----------



## Reno (Dec 8, 2012)

CyberRose said:


> I agree they couldn't have possibly thought somebody would commit suicide from the prank, but they must have known there was the possibility to get somebody in the shit with their job from it...


 
I think that's the nature of many pranks and I'm not a huge fan of them myself. It's just unfortunate that they went from "cheeky pranksters" to "nurse killers". I also do feel sorry for the broadcasters.


----------



## Callie (Dec 8, 2012)

There are blanket rules regarding patient confidentiality - you dont tell anyone anything is pretty much it! Theres a bit more to it than that but in essence that is what you do. You cannot always judge what is significant and what isnt.

It doesnt just cover what people might consider confidential medical information - sometimes just confirming a patient is present at hospital to an unidentified person (or someone of unconfirmed identity) is a breach. The severity of that breach is low but it is still a breach, I guess it would depend on the patient making a complaint for it to lead to a specific disciplinary.

as mattie says - anyone who works in a hospital setting will understand the gravity placed on patient confidentiality. The possible implications are huge. Even if a minor breach is unlikely to ultimately end in more than a slapped wrist and retraining, in the early stages the staff member concerned would only know their job could be at stake - for example the nurse concerned here would not have known if the patient was looking to make a complaint...but given who it was and the media coverage....


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

...plus, from reading Aus media the Radio Station broke the law...if you broadcast a hoax, you have to have permission from the hoaxee....and this outfit has already caused shitstorms and broken guidelines before.


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## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

I hope Bart Simpson looks upon this as a grave example.


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## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

They could never have seen what was ahead ?

A speeding motorist can say the same thing, the outcome was very unlikely but not impossible because the point of the joke was to cause embarrassment and ridicule ?, due to the nature of the cruel prank there was a possibility that the person that was on the receiving end of it could get into trouble at work [although from what little i know the nurses did nothing wrong] and if somebody thinks they maybe in trouble in work this has all sorts of consequences, a lifetimes training gone to waste, financial implications, career prospects, etc etc.
The outcome was unlikely but it was not rocket science to say that it could cause an individual or individuals major problems in their life.

If this prank had any bearing on what happened then the perpetrators of this have a lot to answer for.


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## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

When i seen the name and a photo of the lady in a dress that western women don't wear as far as i know, the first think that went through my mind was honour and loyalty that may or may not be the case but it was the first thing that went throw my mind.

Awful sad, i feel so sorry for her and her family and her colleagues and for the Royal family and of course this must be a distressing time for the mother to be and her family as well.

I know some people are oblivious, where's the fire type of thing, but those Aussie DJ's have a lot too answer for, at the very least morally.

The prank was in very bad taste.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 8, 2012)

It's funny, you talk absolute bollocks even outside of your core bollocks-talking area of Welsh nationalism.


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## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

All people are different, some people found the prank distasteful and knocked it off !!!, without hearing it all.

Why because they thought it had the potential too cause distress and even get somebody into trouble if they responded incorrectly to the hoax call, i thought it was a cheap shot, regardless of the outcome and im not aftertiming here, like i say i thought it was a cheap shot regardless of the outcome even if things we currently don't know emerge over time [like the straw that broke the camels back]

When you are talking medical confidentiality, wasting nurses time, making people think they are speaking too one of the most important people in the world in that particular situation involving their job i thought it was very poor [if it was me, i would have thought too myself this cant be right this can't be the Queen but i would have still played a straight bat because you just don't know, it could have been the Queen, unlikely but i could have been and i would have answered accordingly on the off chance, also were the nurses nights ?, were they at the end of a long night shift ? or straight out of bed working mornings ?, any shift worker will tell you you are not at your best at those times, i would have done what the nurses did, would anybody on here say 'i don't believe you are the Queen ?', when they get calls all the time from relatives and are trained what to say, i doubt they are trained to say i don't believe who you are and put the phone down that is why i thought it was a cheap shot it was not clever at all].

We live and learn i suppose, some people find 'disability' jokes funny, they may tell a 'disability' joke in front of a parent of a disabled person one day and cause distress, how was i too know the joke teller may say !!!, some people would say know your audience first or just don't go there full stop.

I would have thought at the time most people would have thought it harmless, i didn't i know [not talking after the event, i genuinely thought it was bad] but most people i guess didn't see any harm in it, perhaps this would have taught some people to think about the consequences of a prank a little bit more before playing it, causing distress is not funny, anything more may have been seen as unlikely but causing distress should have been enough not to go through with the prank.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

As to her dress, not really relevant, trampie. The name is Portuguese, so she was most likely a Catholic from South India.


----------



## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> As to her dress, not really relevant, trampie. The name is Portuguese, so she was most likely a Catholic from South India.


You are making assumptions based on name and dress straight away.
What is relevant is some people knocked it off because they thought it was distasteful well before events took a turn, therefore the people that knocked it off had more incite than most into the repercussions, its ok to say after the event this and that but have some respect for people that thought it was out of order from the very start.
It must have been a known surely that the prank would cause distress and embarrassment as well as possible work issues.


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## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

The DJ's have a lot to answer for, it wasn't a joke it was nasty, very nasty.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

trampie said:


> What is relevant is some people knocked it off because it was distasteful well before events took a turn, therefore the people that knocked it off had more incite than most into the repercussions, its ok to say after the event this and that but have some respect for people that thought it was out of order from the very start.


Can you rephrase that? I'm finding it hard to pick apart the words to discover what you mean.


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## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Can you rephrase that? I'm finding it hard to pick apart the words to discover what you mean.


Did you hear the prank ?
Because some people did hear the prank and knocked it off halfway through thinking it was in bad taste.


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## Citizen66 (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm assuming that this hospital regularly treats wealthy clients and perhaps even other Royals in the past. The Royals themselves certainly have experience of the media pissing around on many occasions. Both the hospital and Royal household have failed in their duty of care towards this nurse who was clearly ill prepared, equiped or trained to deal with the situations that would arise due to having a famous patient and the ensuing media shitstorm that followed her mistake. There's lots of people with blood on their hands over this.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

trampie said:


> Did you hear the prank ?
> Because some people did hear the prank and knocked it off halfway through thinking it was in bad taste.


OK, you mean switched off. To me knocked off means stolen goods. Also I realise that when you said incite you didn't mean as in 'incite to riot' but insight as in 'intuitive understanding'. It's just it can be hard to understand you because the language you use is ambiguous.


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## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

DJ's on gardening leave, so it seems.


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## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

Who are these people who turned off the radio in disgust?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 8, 2012)

trampie said:


> The DJ's have a lot to answer for, it wasn't a joke it was nasty, very nasty.


 
"very nasty " ? did you listen to the same audio ? A bunch of silly, innocuous questions about overexposed, over paid , underworked royal shirkers laid up at the taxpayers expense in their super exclusive private hospital . The 'nasty' part is the fucked up remnants of feudal belief systems that dictate that this ridiculous couple are somehow so elevated, that a simple mistake on the part of the nurse in relation to their privacy could lead to this tragedy .


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> Who are these people who turned off the radio in disgust?


 

probably like the bloke ho punched his iown tele when john lydon swore onn a program. ie, made up


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## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> probably like the bloke ho punched his iown tele when john lydon swore onn a program. ie, made up


 
Greenk ink brigade and Mr Disgusted from Turnbridge-Wells, I was thinking.


----------



## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

Callie said:


> There are blanket rules regarding patient confidentiality - you dont tell anyone anything is pretty much it! Theres a bit more to it than that but in essence that is what you do. You cannot always judge what is significant and what isnt.
> 
> It doesnt just cover what people might consider confidential medical information - sometimes just confirming a patient is present at hospital to an unidentified person (or someone of unconfirmed identity) is a breach. The severity of that breach is low but it is still a breach, I guess it would depend on the patient making a complaint for it to lead to a specific disciplinary.
> 
> as mattie says - anyone who works in a hospital setting will understand the gravity placed on patient confidentiality. The possible implications are huge. Even if a minor breach is unlikely to ultimately end in more than a slapped wrist and retraining, in the early stages the staff member concerned would only know their job could be at stake - for example the nurse concerned here would not have known if the patient was looking to make a complaint...but given who it was and the media coverage....


I spend a lot of time on the wards in the mornings and hear nurses answering the phone to friends and relatives of patients all the time. The standard information given out is whether they had a good night or not, and if they enquire further then they tell them to pop in and the sister/charge nurse will speak to them. Now I don't know if they're _supposed_ to be telling them if they had a comfortable night, but it's certainly common practice.


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## weltweit (Dec 8, 2012)

It is sad to think that this nurse might have blamed herself so strongly when all she did was put the call through, it was someone else that actually discussed Kate's condition with the hoaxers. Perhaps she felt her job and honour was on the line, perhaps she feared press intrusion and doorstepping, I doubt we will ever know the truth. But it is a tragedy that her children are now without a mother.


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## Giles (Dec 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm assuming that this hospital regularly treats wealthy clients and perhaps even other Royals in the past. The Royals themselves certainly have experience of the media pissing around on many occasions. Both the hospital and Royal household have failed in their duty of care towards this nurse who was clearly ill prepared, equiped or trained to deal with the situations that would arise due to having a famous patient and the ensuing media shitstorm that followed her mistake. There's lots of people with blood on their hands over this.


 
No-one has "blood on their hands".

If this woman couldn't deal with a simple prank phone call, this is not the fault of the royal family.

I listened to the call, it was totally silly and lighthearted. No-one actually gave away any embarrassing information anyway.

If this "caused" this nurse to kill herself, then she cannot have been very stable.

Giles..


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## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

Giles said:


> No-one has "blood on their hands".


If _anyone_ does, then it's the British media not the ozzies. *They* were the ones that created the outrage angle of some terrible breach of confidentiality, despite nothing of the sort being true.


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

Giles said:


> No-one has "blood on their hands".
> 
> If this woman couldn't deal with a simple prank phone call, this is not the fault of the royal family.
> 
> ...


 
It was not the prank that caused her to kill herself. I don't think you 'get' this.

It may have been an embarrassing news story for one day to you and I but to her the damage was permanent and she probably perceived all kinds of real and imagined outcomes. From the threats of harm on social media becoming reality to never working again as a nurse or being able to support herself, or even deportation. We will never know what this woman was thinking in her final hours and to say she is not stable is shallow, myopic and crass. It also shows limited understanding of the case or why people commit suicide.

I guess people who get bullied and eventually tkae their own life aren't stable, eh?


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

mattie said:


> My fundamental opposition to their act is that they're pranking a nurse, and pranking her on what they must surely know will be an internationally visible level. The involvement of the royal family is a sideline to all this, they've not been pranked, the nurse has, which is what is so tasteless.
> 
> It's not simply the fact that she's in a caring vocation, it's the fact that she's not courted publicity and therefore she's an entirely unwilling participant in all this. She's humiliated on a very public stage and placed in a very tricky professional position* - which the DJs must have had some idea would be the case - simply for their shits and giggles and ratings and career.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah. Good points. I'd say, however, that the intention was never to prank the nurse, _per se_, but the institution she worked for. I can imagine the jolly Aussies thinking it was a brilliant wheeze to take the piss out of some patrician, stuffed-shirt establishment that tends to the health needs of Britain's old money. As someone has mentioned previously, given the paucity of the gag itself, there didn't seem to be any expectation of any kind that it would actually _work, _more that they'd get to have a bit of a laugh with some plummy, Colonel Blimp type who'd harrumph a bit, confirm a few stereotypes, and be done with it. The appalling conjunction of events leading from the fact that a non-native speaker answered the phone and was sufficiently flustered to put them through was, I'd imagine, beyond the parameters of what they had expected. It just grimly played itself out from there.

I guess what I'm saying is that there was no intention to land the nurse in the shit, because I doubt they expected they'd get past the front door. I'm not sure you're right when you say that they would have known what would happen, because I don't think they thought it would. I mean, the premises of the prank are so farcical as to be laughable, which I think was what they would have been playing on.

But yeah, if they went out with intent, knowing that what they were going to do was going to, at the least, damage the career of a total innocent, then they're cunts of the first stripe and deserve all (or perhaps most of) the shit that's coming their way.


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## catinthehat (Dec 8, 2012)

http://www.gradesaver.com/an-inspector-calls/study-guide/short-summary/

It's never one thing but one thing may be the catalyst.  I recall this play from school where a series of callous, off hand and downright nasty actions conspire to lead to a woman's death.  I wonder if time might be better spent wondering if we have ever contributed - by accident or design - to another persons misery and how given different circumstances we also 'be in the frame'.  That is not to say we tip toe around considering worst case scenarios all the time - but most of us can afford to be a bit kinder.  I certainly could make more of an effort to be nice.

This case makes me think of the teachers that have committed suicide after a criticism from OFSTEAD (there have been a few).  The criticism will be the straw that breaks the camels back - they are knackered and stressed and perhaps their primary personal identification is 'teacher' or 'nurse' and then they are told they are not good at it - so bam all their constructs about who and what they are implode.  It's conjecture but your family in Bristol, your job in London and working nights is pretty stressful before anything else comes into the picture.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

I am also relieved that the 'Bloids today have focused in on what _really_ matters in this sad case, which is the tender feelings of Kate fucking Windsor, who is said to be 'devastated'.

FFS. Not as much as her family, colleagues and friends, I'll daresay


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 8, 2012)

Giles said:


> No-one has "blood on their hands".
> 
> If this woman couldn't deal with a simple prank phone call, this is not the fault of the royal family.




Why not? They have an army of employees that help deal with and protect them from this crap most of the time. This woman had nothing. It was their responsibility to put things in place to protect the duchess from intrusion, not rely on a nurse on nightshift who doesn't get paid enough to deal with what comes part and parcel of being born into vast wealth and fame.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's funny, you talk absolute bollocks even outside of your core bollocks-talking area of Welsh nationalism.


----------



## Athos (Dec 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> Why not? They have an army of employees that help deal with and protect them from this crap most of the time. This woman had nothing. It was their responsibility to put things in place to protect the duchess from intrusion, not rely on a nurse on nightshift who doesn't get paid enough to deal with what comes part and parcel of being born into vast wealth and fame.



When you say the the royal family owe a duty of care to the nurse, are you saying that they do as a matter of law, or that do from a moral perspective?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

Buckaroo said:


> Nope! still can't find the right one! Shouldn't be too hard, projectile vomiting smiley face thing?


 
Google "longdog's smileys".


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> Who are these people who turned off the radio in disgust?


Actually me, from the off. I can't bear that sort of thing. Cringe comedy and practical jokes are something I've always loathed.  It seemed to me that if the two nurses involved had English as a second language they were easier to dupe. Easy targets, easy to sack.


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Google "longdog's smileys".


 
One of my oldest bookmarks in use.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> Who are these people who turned off the radio in disgust?


 
Probably people from Tunbridge Wells, innit?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Probably people from Tunbridge Wells, innit?


Or a housing estate in Brixton.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> One of my oldest bookmarks in use.


 
They're so versatile!!


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Actually me, from the off. I can't bear that sort of thing. Cringe comedy and practical jokes are something I've always loathed. It seemed to me that if the two nurses involved had English as a second language they were easier to dupe. Easy targets, easy to sack.


 
I didn't turn it off because I was interested to hear it but I agree with you, two nurses who's first language is not English made it easier to dupe.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Or a housing estate in Brixton.


 
Yes, but "Angry of Brixton" sounds a bit...normal state of being?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm less angry today as I'm in a fog of codeine.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

Pain has made me a bit of a bitch.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

Giles said:


> No-one has "blood on their hands".
> 
> If this woman couldn't deal with a simple prank phone call, this is not the fault of the royal family.
> 
> ...


 
So for you the issue begins and ends with the call, rather than with the *repercussions* of the call.

Nice to know what sort of fuckwit considers themselves to be a member of the _ubermenschen_.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I'm less angry today as I'm in a fog of codeine.


 
I'm *always* in a fog of codeine. That's *my* "normal state of being".


----------



## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> considers themselves to be a member of the _ubermenschen_.


Say *what* now?


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Pain has made me a bit of a bitch.


 
I find that codeine with medicinal (possibly illicit) herbs help. But not so good for daytime pain control as you'll probably nod off.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

catinthehat said:


> http://www.gradesaver.com/an-inspector-calls/study-guide/short-summary/
> 
> It's never one thing but one thing may be the catalyst. I recall this play from school where a series of callous, off hand and downright nasty actions conspire to lead to a woman's death. I wonder if time might be better spent wondering if we have ever contributed - by accident or design - to another persons misery and how given different circumstances we also 'be in the frame'. That is not to say we tip toe around considering worst case scenarios all the time - but most of us can afford to be a bit kinder. I certainly could make more of an effort to be nice.
> 
> This case makes me think of the teachers that have committed suicide after a criticism from OFSTEAD (there have been a few). The criticism will be the straw that breaks the camels back - they are knackered and stressed and perhaps their primary personal identification is 'teacher' or 'nurse' and then they are told they are not good at it - so bam all their constructs about who and what they are implode. It's conjecture but your family in Bristol, your job in London and working nights is pretty stressful before anything else comes into the picture.


 
"An Inspector Calls" is a fantastic "morality tale", and the film version is even better (for once) IMHO than the play.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

Corax said:


> Say *what* now?


 
Giles has, in the past, advocated the sterilisation of females with what he perceives to be low intelligence and high fecundity, among other eugenicist wank fantasies. Quite obviously he perceives himself to be an _ubermensch_.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> I find that codeine with medicinal (possibly illicit) herbs help. But not so good for daytime pain control as you'll probably nod off.


I only take codeine as a last resort tbh.


----------



## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Giles has, in the past, advocated the sterilisation of females with what he perceives to be low intelligence and high fecundity, among other eugenicist wank fantasies. Quite obviously he perceives himself to be an _ubermensch_.


Blimey.  And he's still here?  Must have a remarkable ability for self-censorship if he's that way inclined and has managed to avoid the banhammer.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I am also relieved that the 'Bloids today have focused in on what _really_ matters in this sad case, which is the tender feelings of Kate fucking Windsor, who is said to be 'devastated'.


 
I wouldn't wish a kick in the belly on the former Miss Middleton, but I'm fucked if I care about how she feels.



> FFS. Not as much as her family, colleagues and friends, I'll daresay


 
Quite. A woman is dead, and responsibility for that death needs to be ascertained. We still don't know, for example, if she was doorstepped, and if so what was said, we don't know what her managers may have said (officially or unofficially) to her, or how she felt about the incident herself, so some royal brood mare's feelings are irrelevant, whereas giving friends and family some closure about this *is* relevant.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

Corax said:


> Blimey. And he's still here? Must have a remarkable ability for self-censorship if he's that way inclined and has managed to avoid the banhammer.


 
People are a lot less inclined to report posts than some of the whiners imagine, so we still have a handful of posters who express absolute vile crap occasionally who're still here, people like Giles, gunneradt and a few others.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Dec 8, 2012)

Giles said:


> No-one has "blood on their hands".
> 
> If this woman couldn't deal with a simple prank phone call, this is not the fault of the royal family.
> 
> ...


i'm sure it wasnt just the phone call, but also the public humiliation, the online comments, becoming a laughing stock, stress, the prospect of losing her job etc etc.

sounds fucking awful. i dont think anyone can imagine how the poor woman felt


----------



## tommers (Dec 8, 2012)

This has really upset me.  I don't normally get like that about stuff on the news but I think it's cos of the 2 kids and because it's just all so fucking unnecessary.  From the people who tried to fool the hospital, through the press who ramped up the commotion about it to everybody else who is just so fucking concerned about some woman having a baby that she's felt the need to tell people she's pregnant before her 12 week scan has even taken place.

All of it fucking stinks.  Nothing's changed, has it?  She's not even had the first scan to check everything is OK and somebody has already died because of our obsession with it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 8, 2012)

'our'?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 8, 2012)

tommers said:


> All of it fucking stinks. Nothing's changed, has it? She's not even had the first scan to check everything is OK and somebody has already died because of our obsession with it.


 
Not *our *obsession, the media's assumption that any any of us give a toss (other than DM readers)


----------



## tommers (Dec 8, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> 'our'?


 
As in "society."


----------



## weltweit (Dec 8, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Quite. A woman is dead, and responsibility for that death needs to be ascertained. We still don't know, for example, if she was doorstepped, and if so what was said, we don't know what her managers may have said (officially or unofficially) to her, or how she felt about the incident herself, so some royal brood mare's feelings are irrelevant, whereas giving friends and family some closure about this *is* relevant.


However, as we are neither friends nor family it may be the case that we will never know.


----------



## tommers (Dec 8, 2012)

I knew that was going to get picked up on.


----------



## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

tommers said:


> that she's felt the need to tell people she's pregnant before her 12 week scan has even taken place.


I've no objection to booting the austrian lizard family, but I doubt it would have been revealed if she hadn't needed to go to hospital - in which case the press would have been speculating on the reason why.

Although tbh I'm still more than a little puzzled why she needed to be admitted anyway. The most dramatic intervention she could have needed would have been IV fluids*, which could very easily and safely have been administered at home... 

*I'd have thought?  IANAD...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

tommers said:


> As in "society."


 
A bit general, seeing as a goodly minority (possibly a majority) of us don't give a fuck.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

tommers said:


> some woman having a baby that she's felt the need to tell people she's pregnant before her 12 week scan has even taken place.


I think the only reason it's had to be made public is because she had to go into hospital and the media speculation about 'is she, isn't she' has been intense.


----------



## tommers (Dec 8, 2012)

Corax said:


> I've no objection to booting the austrian lizard family, but I doubt it would have been revealed if she hadn't needed to go to hospital - in which case the press would have been speculating on the reason why.


 
Well yeah, that's what I mean.  Whoever made the decision to make it public, whether it's her or, more likely, whatever "advisor" makes those decisions, knew that there'd be journalists all over it - so they decided to say it themselves.

That isn't normal, and I would say it's not a particularly good idea.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

weltweit said:


> However, as we are neither friends nor family it may be the case that we will never know.


 
Highly unlikely, as the inquest (still a requirement for suicides, IIRC) will be public.


----------



## tommers (Dec 8, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> A bit general, seeing as a goodly minority (possibly a majority) of us don't give a fuck.


 
Jesus Christ. I get it. I don't particularly either.


----------



## tommers (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I think the only reason it's had to be made public is because she had to go into hospital and the media speculation about 'is she, isn't she' has been intense.


 
Yes.  That's what I meant.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 8, 2012)

I didn't even know she was pregnant. Looks like they are going to have to get married a bit sharpish.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 8, 2012)

tommers said:


> This has really upset me. I don't normally get like that about stuff on the news but I think it's cos of the 2 kids and because it's just all so fucking unnecessary. From the people who tried to fool the hospital, through the press who ramped up the commotion about it to everybody else who is just so fucking concerned about some woman having a baby that she's felt the need to tell people she's pregnant before her 12 week scan has even taken place.
> 
> All of it fucking stinks. Nothing's changed, has it? She's not even had the first scan to check everything is OK and somebody has already died because of our obsession with it.


Nobody died "because" of any obsession. A young woman made a decision based on what would have been the most personal of reasons. To start throwing blame seem pretty ghoulish and counter-productive.


----------



## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

tommers said:


> Well yeah, that's what I mean. Whoever made the decision to make it public, whether it's her or, more likely, whatever "advisor" makes those decisions, knew that there'd be journalists all over it - so they decided to say it themselves.
> 
> That isn't normal, and I would say it's not a particularly good idea.


I'm not sure you get what I meant? (which is probably my fault for crap posting)

If they hadn't announced her pregnancy, then the press would have been publishing all sorts of stories speculating on why she was in hospital. Highly unlikely they could have kept her admission private, so the tabloids would be running with _"Princess in Emergency Rush to Hospital", "Kate's Date with Death?", "The Royal Wee - Does Kate have a UTI?"_, and "_OMG She has Terminal Syphillis!"_.

I totally agree that announcing a pregnancy before 12 weeks is neither normal nor a good idea - but in these circumstances I can understand if they thought the alternative was even less attractive.


----------



## tommers (Dec 8, 2012)

Corax said:


> I'm not sure you get what I meant? (which is probably my fault for crap posting)
> 
> If they hadn't announced her pregnancy, then the press would have been publishing all sorts of stories speculating on why she was in hospital. Highly unlikely they could have kept her admission private, so the tabloids would be running with _"Princess in Emergency Rush to Hospital", "Kate's Date with Death?", "The Royal Wee - Does Kate have a UTI?"_, and "_OMG She has Terminal Syphillis!"_.
> 
> I totally agree that announcing a pregnancy before 12 weeks is neither normal nor a good idea - but in these circumstances I can understand if they thought the alternative was even less attractive.


 
I know.  That's exactly what I said!


----------



## tommers (Dec 8, 2012)

Maybe I'm going mad or something.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 8, 2012)

Athos said:


> When you say the the royal family owe a duty of care to the nurse, are you saying that they do as a matter of law, or that do from a moral perspective?



From the perspective of them having experienced employees for dealing with media high jinx. Why was some nurse left to man the phone lines then hung out to dry when the inevitable fuck up happened?

Not sure what the law has to do with it. They have protocols.


----------



## cesare (Dec 8, 2012)

The hospital has the principle duty of care here. They should have assessed the risk of increased media attention and therefore employee stress and made sure that they had made all reasonable efforts to minimise any potentially adverse impacts on the health and safety of their employees. That's not to say that they could have reasonably predicted suicide, but they could reasonably have predicted a media fest and ensured that internal protocols were set up. And if those protocols fail, to look after any employees caught up in the fallout.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 8, 2012)

cesare said:


> The hospital has the principle duty of care here. They should have assessed the risk of increased media attention and therefore employee stress and made sure that they had made all reasonable efforts to minimise any potentially adverse impacts on the health and safety of their employees. That's not to say that they could have reasonably predicted suicide, but they could reasonably have predicted a media fest and ensured that internal protocols were set up. And if those protocols fail, to look after any employees caught up in the fallout.


how do we know they didn't?


----------



## Athos (Dec 8, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> From the perspective of them having experienced employees for dealing with media high jinx. Why was some nurse left to man the phone lines then hung out to dry when the inevitable fuck up happened?
> 
> Not sure what the law has to do with it. They have protocols.



The concept of a duty of care has a particular legal meaning. I was wondering whether you were using it in that technical sense, or in a more general sense.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 8, 2012)

tommers said:


> Maybe I'm going mad or something.


 
Going?


----------



## cesare (Dec 8, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> how do we know they didn't?


They didn't have reception manned in the event of global media interest from differing time zones, for one.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 8, 2012)

cesare said:


> They didn't have reception manned in the event of global media interest from differing time zones, for one.


Well what would count as a reasonable precaution for that? Should they have a PR team on standby?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> Well what would count as a reasonable precaution for that? Should they have a PR team on standby?


They're not NHS, they have a reputation for catering to high-profile patients and 'discreetness' and bills to match.


----------



## cesare (Dec 8, 2012)

Lo Siento. said:


> Well what would count as a reasonable precaution for that? Should they have a PR team on standby?


Trained receptionists 24/7 at least. yes probably a PR team on stand-by too, which would be normal. If this private hospital's business model includes the provision of medical care for, for example the British Royal family, then they should be set up accordingly.


----------



## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

tommers said:


> Maybe I'm going mad or something.


You, me, or both.


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

cesare said:


> Trained receptionists 24/7 at least. yes probably a PR team on stand-by too, which would be normal. If this private hospital's business model includes the provision of medical care for, for example the British Royal family, then they should be set up accordingly.


 
If I were a manager at that hospital I'd have made sure DPG, SO6 or whoever deals with this kind of thing had not only briefed myself but my employees. In fact, I would have thought that kind of thing would have been common procedural practise and part of DPG / SO6 / blah blah's remit even if the hospital didn't request it. 

Someone's dropped the ball and it wasn't the nurse.


----------



## Raminta (Dec 8, 2012)

Well society is going mad.  We do put first ruling class before our families.


----------



## cesare (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> If I were a manager at that hospital I'd have made sure DPG, SO6 or whoever deals with this kind of thing had not only briefed myself but my employees. In fact, I would have thought that kind of thing would have been common procedural practise and part of DPG / SO6 / blah blah's remit even if the hospital didn't request it.
> 
> Someone's dropped the ball and it wasn't the nurse.


And someone's responsible for briefing the management. Ultimately it's down to the hospital's board.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> If I were a manager at that hospital I'd have made sure DPG, SO6 or whoever deals with this kind of thing had not only briefed myself but my employees. In fact, I would have thought that kind of thing would have been common procedural practise and part of DPG / SO6 / blah blah's remit even if the hospital didn't request it.
> 
> Someone's dropped the ball and it wasn't the nurse.



The NMC also places individual responsibility on the nurse. Not always fair, i know.


----------



## Corax (Dec 8, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> The NMC also places individual responsibility on the nurse. Not always fair, i know.


Powerful tool though.  Eg - If a surgeon is about to amputate the wrong leg then the scrub nurse has a responsibility to do everything possible to stop him/her, no matter how much of an arrogant bullying arsehole he/she is.  In a way, it actually _empowers_ nursing staff by laying that responsibility on them.


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> The NMC also places individual responsibility on the nurse. Not always fair, i know.


 
Yep, a good demonstration of why things aren't always in black and white.


----------



## gabi (Dec 8, 2012)

bendeus said:


> I'm probably going to get flamed to fuck for this, but I don't necessarily see a massive problem with what the radio station did....


 
I totally agree. I'm sure the Parasites will use to their advantage when the next royal parasite is spawned too.

It was a joke. Of the sort that plays out all the time on radio stations around the world. If this woman couldn't handle that, then it's fairly clear there were other far more serious issues in her life. Not sure it should ruin the careers/lives of these two young radio hosts.

kinell, imagine if andrew sachs had topped himself after Brand/Ross gave him a bit of a ribbing. Capital punishment would have been immediately reinstated methinks.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 8, 2012)

Athos said:
			
		

> The concept of a duty of care has a particular legal meaning. I was wondering whether you were using it in that technical sense, or in a more general sense.



well in the legal sense it is the hospital that owes the duty of care and the buck stops with them too. I'm just making the point that the people best placed to advise on security matters are people employed by the palace to do exactly that as they do it pretty much daily and as such take a share in the blame for how this nurse was failed.


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> I totally agree.
> 
> .



The end times are indeed upon us


----------



## bendeus (Dec 8, 2012)

@ Gabi...But yeah, agree here. The fault was with the hospital for having some poor nurse staffing the reception phone in the first place at a time when teh biggest storee in da wurld!!1! was breaking; with the royal entourage for not having seen this coming; probably with the management of the hospital for what was almost inevitably an OTT, panic-induced reaction to the realisation of their fuckup and the implications this had for their nice little number getting paid piles for dealing with aristocratic haemorrhoids and, unsurprisingly, once more the British media for being the utterly unreconstituted, value-free fuck-knuckles that they always have been and, clearly, always will be.


----------



## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

cantsin said:


> "very nasty " ? did you listen to the same audio ? A bunch of silly, innocuous questions about overexposed, over paid , underworked royal shirkers laid up at the taxpayers expense in their super exclusive private hospital . The 'nasty' part is the fucked up remnants of feudal belief systems that dictate that this ridiculous couple are somehow so elevated, that a simple mistake on the part of the nurse in relation to their privacy could lead to this tragedy .


The nasty part was they seemingly did not give any thought for the collateral damage.

What mistake ?, nurses are expected to give out information about a patients general condition to close family, being duped and having no way of knowing you are being duped does not constitute a mistake.


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

She did not give any information out.


----------



## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> She did not give any information out.


It is being reported that the one nurse put the call through and the other nurse did the standard thing, she gave basic info, text book stuff by the sound of it.


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

trampie said:


> It is being reported that the one nurse put the call through and the other nurse did the standard thing, she gave basic info, text book stuff by the sound of it.


 
I thought she had given out information, (rather foolishly of me). She hadn't.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 8, 2012)

> Ms Saldanha, a mother of two, received the call and put it through to the ward where another nurse updated the pair on the Duchess, who was being treated for severe morning sickness.


According to the link in the OP.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 8, 2012)

[quote="trampie, post: 11776308, member: 51997"*]The nasty part was they seemingly did not give any thought for the collateral damage.*

.[/quote]

how do you know this ?


----------



## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

Because its obvious, even tonights news on the tv said the same thing but using different words.


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

trampie said:


> Because its obvious, even tonights news on the tv said the same thing but using different words.



Was this the same news channel that reported she gave out information?


----------



## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> Was this the same news channel that reported she gave out information?


What news channel was that ?


----------



## cantsin (Dec 8, 2012)

trampie said:


> Because its obvious, even tonights news on the tv said the same thing but using different words.


 
you're full of hard fact you are


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

You said there was reports that she gave out information, I was wondering if it was the same news channel that you mention above.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)




----------



## Plumdaff (Dec 8, 2012)

I can only speak for the NHS but when dealing with high profile patients there is usually a general reminder to all staff of confidentiality rules and procedures and ime a number circulated to which general enquiries should be directed, within office hours. Out of hours it should be tough luck, call back later. I'd imagine and hope a private hospital catering for royals would have similar arrangements. However, knowing the private health sector, it is just possible they spent all the cash on old fashioned hats for the nurses and large flower displays. Posh patients love that shit.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 8, 2012)

Don't think this is in the thread yet. According to the news the hospital has made a formal complaint against the Australian Radio Station. Not sure what a formal complaint in these circumstances gets you, but there you are.


----------



## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> I can only speak for the NHS but when dealing with high profile patients there is usually a general reminder to all staff of confidentiality rules and procedures and ime a number circulated to which general enquiries should be directed, within office hours. Out of hours it should be tough luck, call back later. I'd imagine and hope a private hospital catering for royals would have similar arrangements. However, knowing the private health sector, it is just possible they spent all the cash on old fashioned hats for the nurses and large flower displays. Posh patients love that shit.


What is your point caller ?, from what is reported both nurses seemed to handle the phone calls perfectly, do you agree ?


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

You've got more faces than a diamond.


----------



## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> ​
> I thought she had given out information, (rather foolishly of me). She hadn't.


Why are you commenting on something when you don't know what the basic facts are that are being reported ?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> View attachment 25909


 
wasn't a big fan of them but that one always cracks me up I almost spurted wine over my keyboard just seeing that pic


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 8, 2012)

trampie is another one for the ignore list - life is too short.


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

trampie said:


> Why are you commenting on something when you don't know what the basic facts are that are being reported ?


 
Not sure if you're attempting to troll or you're really dumb.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> Not sure if you're attempting to troll or you're really dumb.


 
Who are you talking too?!


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Who are you talking too?!


 
Trampie


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 8, 2012)

firky said:


> Trampie


 
ah right, I can't see his posts any more


----------



## Firky (Dec 8, 2012)

I think I'll do the same TBH.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 8, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Who are you talking too?!


I sense you're another one who can't see quotes. There is a solution but I've forgotten what it is


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 8, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I sense you're another one who can't see quotes. There is a solution but I've forgotten what it is


 
It's fine i don't want to see those quotes i was just joking


----------



## UrbaneFox (Dec 8, 2012)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Will the Daily Mail have 'blood on their hands' if one of these DJ's ends up topping themselves? Because as far as I can see, what the DM are doing is far more likely to result in a suicide than the making of a prank call.


 
It's better than Hamlet. The Royal Experts at the Mail will be forced to committ suicide, then the BBC and finally the U75 ed and mods and all posters here present.



quimcunx said:


> They do it for all sorts of reasons. We're just not privy to them all. There are connections between feeling shame, guilt, humiliation, unable to face family and friends and suicide. For instance losing your company and therefore your sense of identity as a successful businessman and your method of keeping your family in the manner to which it is accustomed etc. Maybe there is a difference in cultural attitudes which made her feel this more keenly than others might. Dunno.


 
She also lived in Bristol and commuted a long way to work. This job meant a lot to her.


----------



## trampie (Dec 8, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> trampie is another one for the ignore list - life is too short.


I didn't put anybody on an ignore list, it defeats the object of a message board, but there again you do tend to lose every debate you get involved in so its probably a wise decision.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 8, 2012)

UrbaneFox said:


> It's better than Hamlet. The Royal Experts at the Mail will be forced to committ suicide, then the BBC and finally the U75 ed and mods and all posters here present.


 
More Romeo and Juliet than Hamlet.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Dec 8, 2012)

Sorry, Saskia, I just added part 2 before you "liked".



Mrs Magpie said:


> They're not NHS, they have a reputation for catering to high-profile patients and 'discreetness' and bills to match.


Look on the bright side: Prince William will not be getting a bill; this one will be on the house.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Dec 8, 2012)

> *dan barker* ‏@*danbarker*
> Update: Daily Mail has now removed this top comment from the Nurse story. ('self regulation' eh?) pic.twitter.com/e4SyDT3r


 
This story plus Leveson in one tweet.


----------



## smokedout (Dec 9, 2012)

the press, they write about stuff that's happened, the bastards


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Strange how you quote ba but you don't quote my post about the royal family having blood on its hands on the first page of this thread


 
Why is it strange?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

girasol said:


> Not in a million years would the foolish DJs ever guess a silly prank call would end up in someone's death


 
Maybe from now on, foolish DJs or their foolish writers will think a bit more before they act.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

mattie said:


> Just to add context, I've no bother with those who have placed themselves on a pedestal being mocked. I'm even not that fussed about bystanders being pranked as long as some degree of choice and anonymity is involved - think trigger-happy TV - but this whole prank involved specific telephone calls to specific people.


 
You raise a good point. Some people make a living selling their public persona to us - politicians, for example. They're fair game, and they're aware that it's a possibility, that people might try to catch them up.

There's something else. Nurses here work 12 hour shifts; I imagine it's similar there. But even so, most nurses are so busy either caring for patients or making written records about this that or the other thing, that they barely have time to turn around. I'm sure that when this nurse picked up the phone [not even her job - the receptionist was on a  break] her mind was probably elsewhere: maybe she was thinking about a difficult delivery she was assisting with, or the cardiac call that just came through. In the midst of caring for people, these two jackasses intrude into her life. It's so monumentally unfair.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

Reno said:


> . I also do feel sorry for the broadcasters.


 

Aha: there it is.

On about page 2 of this thread, someone asked how long it would be before someone came along to say they feel sorry for the broadcasters. And here it is - it only took 280 posts.

Me? I hope they lose their jobs, and that the radio industry as a whole smartens up when it comes to this sort of reckless disregard.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm assuming that this hospital regularly treats wealthy clients and perhaps even other Royals in the past. The Royals themselves certainly have experience of the media pissing around on many occasions. Both the hospital and Royal household have failed in their duty of care towards this nurse who was clearly ill prepared, equiped or trained to deal with the situations that would arise due to having a famous patient and the ensuing media shitstorm that followed her mistake. There's lots of people with blood on their hands over this.


 
Let's say it yet again. The receptionist was on a break.


This nurse happened to pass by a ringing phone and picked it up.

It was not her regular duties.

She might have thought that some worried family member was trying to get through.

She went out of her way to be helpful.




The hospital is not to blame.

The royals are not to blame.

The nurse is not to blame.


----------



## Reno (Dec 9, 2012)

...but you're a twat and not to be taken seriously.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

A mother of two is dead.... and you feel sorry for the DJs.


----------



## Waiheke.Island (Dec 9, 2012)

The general opinion from NZ is that the DJs need to be hung out to dry on this one and that prank calls are a form of bullying. I guess the poms are a bit gunshy of phones after the news of the world carry on.


----------



## Reno (Dec 9, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> A mother of two is dead.... and you feel sorry for the DJs.


As always you just engage in cheap point scoring. I said I feel sorry for everybody in this sorry mess. And the DJs  didn't fucking kill the woman, she topped herself which strikes me as a rather extreme reaction for "a mother of two" . Do suicides now have no responsibility for their own actions anymore ?


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 9, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:
			
		

> Let's say it yet again. The receptionist was on a break.
> 
> This nurse happened to pass by a ringing phone and picked it up.
> 
> ...



the hospital isn't to blame for not having someone trained in place to deal with a prank call when it happened? the royal household aren't to blame for not giving the hospital a heads up or passing on expertise?


----------



## girasol (Dec 9, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Maybe from now on, foolish DJs or their foolish writers will think a bit more before they act.


 
well, hindsight is a wonderful thing, shame it's only there after something awful happens. And now it seems the female DJ is in hiding and close to a breakdown... Those two looked pretty young and naive. If anyone should have thought more carefully it's the producers. Hopefully no one else involved will do anything terminal 

It's really sad we live in a blame society sometimes. The more I think about it the more it seems this is just one of those crazy things that happens in life - we can try and blame people as much as we like but I really don't think it's going to help.

The DJs were just making a silly prank call, they couldn't even believe they were going to get as far as they did!  Anyway, this will surely see the end of radio prank calls I should think.


----------



## Athos (Dec 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> the hospital isn't to blame for not having someone trained in place to deal with a prank call when it happened? the royal household aren't to blame for not giving the hospital a heads up or passing on expertise?



You think the family of a purchaser owed a duty of care to the employee of a seller with regard to the potential consequences to that employee of her own involvement in a potential breach of the purchaser's right to privacy, bought about by the actions of a third party?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2012)

girasol said:


> Anyway, this will surely see the end of radio prank calls I should think.


 

will it bollocks.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 9, 2012)

Reno said:


> As always you just engage in cheap point scoring. I said I feel sorry for everybody in this sorry mess. And the DJs didn't fucking kill the woman, she topped herself which strikes me as a rather extreme reaction for "a mother of two" . Do suicides now have no responsibility for their own actions anymore ?


 
But they humiliated her which led to her killing herself so they are in some way responsible. Hope they get hung out to dry on this, pair of cunts.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Dec 9, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> But they humiliated her which led to her killing herself so they are in some way responsible. Hope they get hung out to dry on this, pair of cunts.


 
God, that's harsh.  They are now being hounded by the media and under terrible pressure.  Perhaps you'll only be satisfied when they are also hounded into committing suicide.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 9, 2012)

ElizabethofYork said:


> God, that's harsh. They are now being hounded by the media and under terrible pressure. Perhaps you'll only be satisfied when they are also hounded into committing suicide.


 
I think redundancy and only being able to find work cleaning bogs for the next five years should do the trick.


----------



## Reno (Dec 9, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> But they humiliated her which led to her killing herself so they are in some way responsible. Hope they get hung out to dry on this, pair of cunts.


 
Sure they are "in some way" responsible, but I don't subscribe to the tabloid black and white view of mob rule that you are so successfully representing here. I don't think the DJs are murderers because of a fairly inane prank gone wrong and I don't believe killing herself was the only action available to the nurse.


----------



## girasol (Dec 9, 2012)

I think what Derren Brown does to people is a million times worse and it's another form of a practical joke. Yesterday he had some mug thinking he had killed someone and about to confess, before that some other idiot thought the world had ended. So we accept that and applaud it (well I don't, if someone did that to me I'd punch them) - but a stupid prank call with two young, naive DJs, one of them pretending to be the Queen and people react like this?

If it hadn't ended with someone's death I personally would think it was quite harmless. The nurses thought they were talking to the Queen and told her Kate was doing well - life is so serious and harsh in this internet age - before the nurse killed herself I actually thought the whole incident was amusing.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 9, 2012)

Difference being that people volunteer to be mind fucked by Derren Brown. They know to a large  extent what they are letting themselves in for.


----------



## girasol (Dec 9, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Difference being that people volunteer to be mind fucked by Derren Brown. They know to a certain extent what they are letting themselves in for.


 
no they don't, they didn't volunteer for anything in the last 2 programmes (I hate the guy, I only watched it because my son likes him). They were set up by their 'loved ones'. wtf.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 9, 2012)

girasol said:
			
		

> no they don't, they didn't volunteer for anything in the last 2 programmes (I hate the guy, I only watched it because my son likes him). They were set up by their 'loved ones'. wtf.



So your son likes Darren Brown and wears a onsie? 

#parentfail 
#NSPCC


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 9, 2012)

The end of the world bloke volunteered.


----------



## girasol (Dec 9, 2012)

Badgers said:


> So your son likes Darren Brown and wears a onsie?
> 
> #parentfail
> #NSPCC


 
I know   He basically does the opposite of everything I say.  At least he is rebelling


----------



## Badgers (Dec 9, 2012)

girasol said:
			
		

> I know   He basically does the opposite of everything I say.  At least he is rebelling



If he has pineapple on his pizza too then a task force will be knocking on your door this morning


----------



## girasol (Dec 9, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> The end of the world bloke volunteered.


 
he didn't volunteer to be a muppet in an end of the world farce.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 9, 2012)

No, he was an actor who liked the script and was well paid.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> No, he was an actor who liked the script and was well paid.


 

evrybody in the 'its all hokum' camp is secretly thinking 'theres no way he could do that to my IRON WILL'


also thread title keeps making me want a spud


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 9, 2012)

girasol said:


> he didn't volunteer to be a muppet in an end of the world farce.


If you ever go to Paris? That big metal tower? It's not for sale.


----------



## girasol (Dec 9, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> If you ever go to Paris? That big metal tower? It's not for sale.


 
well, yes, you'd have to be gullible and naive not to think something was up... People can be taken in surprisingly easily, they don't even have to be hypnotized. Both nurses thought they are talking to the Queen.

On the one hand the Derren Brown muppets get praise and 15 minutes of fame and take it surprisingly well (which makes me think it's all a double setup anyway), but a nurse reacts by killing herself. You just don't know how people are going to take to being set up.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 9, 2012)

Difference being, people volunteer to be set up by Derren Brown.


----------



## girasol (Dec 9, 2012)

I see, you are all saying it'll all a big lie and the guys are in on it? So the audience is being lied to right? That's even worse...  The world is full of crooks everywhere we look.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 9, 2012)

You seem determined to read things into my post that aren't there. Have fun with that!


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 9, 2012)

If you watch Derren Brown, he advertises for volunteers and assesses them psychologically. They dont know exactly what they have volunteered for though, beyond a derren brown stunt.


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 9, 2012)

Athos said:
			
		

> You think the family of a purchaser owed a duty of care to the employee of a seller with regard to the potential consequences to that employee of her own involvement in a potential breach of the purchaser's right to privacy, bought about by the actions of a third party?



its hardly comparable is it? the royal family are a unique situation. I'm also a bit confused by a supposed anarchist pointing to the law to form his arguments..

but the royal have an army of security to protect them from crap like this. on this occasion it was obviously seen as fine for the hospital staff to deal with it and so they should take a share of the blame for what happened whether the law says so or not imo.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 9, 2012)

Reno said:


> Sure they are "in some way" responsible, but I don't subscribe to the tabloid black and white view of mob rule that you are so successfully representing here.


 
They and their families should be taken out and shot, as should their defenders. Hanging is far too good for you.


----------



## Corax (Dec 9, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> *But they humiliated her* which led to her killing herself so they are in some way responsible. Hope they get hung out to dry on this, pair of cunts.


No they didn't. The _*British*_ press did that, by making out that there had been some ghastly breach of medical confidentiality because of her actions, and endlessly repeating the audio. That wasn't the Australian DJs, it was our indigenous media. The ones that want to be self-regulating.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Dec 9, 2012)

Corax said:


> No they didn't. The _*British*_ press did that, by making out that there had been some ghastly breach of medical confidentiality because of her actions, and endlessly repeating the audio. That wasn't the Australian DJs, it was our indigenous media. The ones that want to be self-regulating.


 
Exactly.  Well said.


----------



## Firky (Dec 9, 2012)

Derren Brown is a massive bellend.

He's probably mates with Heston.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 9, 2012)

Corax said:


> No they didn't. The _*British*_ press did that, by making out that there had been some ghastly breach of medical confidentiality because of her actions, and endlessly repeating the audio. That wasn't the Australian DJs, it was our indigenous media. The ones that want to be self-regulating.


 
Shoot them, too. A mass cull of media wankers would seem to be the obvious remedy, in the UK and in Australia.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 9, 2012)

ElizabethofYork said:


> God, that's harsh. They are now being hounded by the media and under terrible pressure. Perhaps you'll only be satisfied when they are also hounded into committing suicide.


 
The Christian holy book says something about "an eye for an eye", doesn't it?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 9, 2012)

Reno said:


> Sure they are "in some way" responsible, but I don't subscribe to the tabloid black and white view of mob rule that you are so successfully representing here. I don't think the DJs are murderers because of a fairly inane prank gone wrong and I don't believe killing herself was the only action available to the nurse.


 
The reality is that the nurse herself felt that it *was* the only action, though.
We don't know what her emotional state was, because we don't as yet know what transpired between the call and her death, but it's entirely possible that she felt she was trapped in a situation not of her making, and that the only escape was death, so what *you* (or any of us) *believe* is irrelevant until we have as many facts as can be assembled.


----------



## Dowie (Dec 9, 2012)

girasol said:


> well, yes, you'd have to be gullible and naive not to think something was up... People can be taken in surprisingly easily, they don't even have to be hypnotized. Both nurses thought they are talking to the Queen.
> 
> On the one hand the Derren Brown muppets get praise and 15 minutes of fame and take it surprisingly well (which makes me think it's all a double setup anyway), but a nurse reacts by killing herself. You just don't know how people are going to take to being set up.


 
He doesn't totally humiliate them though and will talk to the person after the stunt too. If you read his book he's very critical of, for example, stage hypnotists who publicly humiliate people. I'd say he's more than aware of the potential for his stunts to have a negative effect and takes steps to ensure people aren't walking away from them feeling bad about the whole experience. He's also going to require the permission of the person involved before broadcasting any of it in the first place.

This radio station didn't seek permission or comment from the nurses involved nor did it (seemingly) seek to check they were OK after it was broadcast.


----------



## Reno (Dec 9, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> The reality is that the nurse herself felt that it *was* the only action, though.
> We don't know what her emotional state was, because we don't as yet know what transpired between the call and her death, but it's entirely possible that she felt she was trapped in a situation not of her making, and that the only escape was death, so what *you* (or any of us) *believe* is irrelevant until we have as many facts as can be assembled.


 
You are not exactly telling me anything new here. My point was that it's possible to have a moderate view on this rather than an extreme one of black and white, where the pranksters are hysterically decried as murderers while the nurse had no option but suicide. I'm not speculating on the nurses motives, but by its very definition suicide is something for which the person who kills themselves always has some responsibility themselves, unless someone forces them at gunpoint. The fact that someone died strikes me as a disastrous but unlikely outcome of the prank that nobody could have foreseen.


----------



## Firky (Dec 9, 2012)

I like Reno. He often speaks sense for a southerner.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 9, 2012)

firky said:


> I like Reno. He often speaks sense for a southerner.


 
Bavarians are very sensible people, unlike Saxons, who're...well, a bit "special" in many cases.


----------



## Firky (Dec 9, 2012)

I am a dirty pict


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 9, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Bavarians are very sensible people, unlike Saxons, who're...well, a bit "special" in many cases.


 
Lots of germans I've known tell me the opposite, they proper hate Bavaria


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 9, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Lots of germans I've known tell me the opposite, they proper hate Bavaria


 
There's a bit of hate for Bavaria being "the birthplace of Nazism", although it gets forgotten that parts of Bavaria never elected a Nazi representative, and had a smaller Nazi element pre-'33 than most other _lande_. There's also a bit of the old-fashioned dislike of borderlanders IMO, same as the Silesians used to get.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 9, 2012)

firky said:


> I am a dirty pict


 
Worse, you're what the Picts left behind after they'd nicked the cattle and fucked the sheep.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 9, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> There's a bit of hate for Bavaria being "the birthplace of Nazism", although it gets forgotten that parts of Bavaria never elected a Nazi representative, and had a smaller Nazi element pre-'33 than most other _lande_. There's also a bit of the old-fashioned dislike of borderlanders IMO, same as the Silesians used to get.


 
Plus, nobody can understand a word they say. Truly the geordies of Germany. With a bit more cash, obviously.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> but the royal have an army of security to protect them from crap like this..


 
So when a royal goes into hospital, should the regular receptionists, front desk clerks, etc. be replaced by members of the royal security detail, in case someone should attempt to contact the royal?

What about the immense amount of regular telephone/communication business that is constantly going on in a hospital?


----------



## UrbaneFox (Dec 9, 2012)

girasol said:


> The DJs were just making a silly prank call, they couldn't even believe they were going to get as far as they did! Anyway, this will surely see the end of radio prank calls I should think.


 
I blame Noel Edmonds for the whole episode. He inspired a generation of prankster moron DJs.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

I blame Ashton Kucher.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 9, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Why is it strange?


It's strange you haven't read the first page of the thread


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 9, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> It's strange you haven't read the first page of the thread


 
But...I have.


----------



## Athos (Dec 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:
			
		

> its hardly comparable is it? the royal family are a unique situation. I'm also a bit confused by a supposed anarchist pointing to the law to form his arguments..
> 
> but the royal have an army of security to protect them from crap like this. on this occasion it was obviously seen as fine for the hospital staff to deal with it and so they should take a share of the blame for what happened whether the law says so or not imo.



I'm not pointing to the law. I'm using 'duty of care' in the more general (essentially moral) sense that you used it. That was why I asked the initial question as to whether you were using in the technical legal sense or not.

As much as I despise the royals, I don't see how they are culpable here. The actions of the DJs precipitated the situation, and the hospital had a duty to the nurse, but I can't see how either of those pertains to the royals. 

Maybe all three had a part in the factual causation of the nurse's death (as did she and the press), but I don't see how that equates to any culpability on the part of the royals. 

In fact, I'm not sure that anyone is culpable; I think the ultimate outcome was too remote from the acts of those involved, and not a foreseeable consequence. It was a series of unlikely events combining to result in a very sad but unforseeable outcome, for which nobody could reasonably be blamed.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 9, 2012)

Athos said:


> In fact, I'm not sure that anyone is culpable; I think the ultimate outcome was too remote from the acts of those involved, and not a foreseeable consequence. It was a series of unlikely events combining to result in a very sad but unforseeable outcome, for which nobody could reasonably be blamed.


Basically this. And the media scrum to blame someone is far worse than anything the radio station, the hospital or the royal family may or may not have done.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 9, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Plus, nobody can understand a word they say. Truly the geordies of Germany. With a bit more cash, obviously.


 
Plus Bavarians don't walk around in t-shirts in winter just in case someone calls them a jumper-wearing cissy.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 9, 2012)

UrbaneFox said:


> I blame Noel Edmonds for the whole episode. He inspired a generation of prankster moron DJs.


 
Edmonds got the idea from US deejays (who also inspired the likes of Candid Camera), apparently.


----------



## girasol (Dec 9, 2012)

Dowie said:


> He doesn't totally humiliate them though and will talk to the person after the stunt too. If you read his book he's very critical of, for example, stage hypnotists who publicly humiliate people. I'd say he's more than aware of the potential for his stunts to have a negative effect and takes steps to ensure people aren't walking away from them feeling bad about the whole experience. He's also going to require the permission of the person involved before broadcasting any of it in the first place.
> 
> This radio station didn't seek permission or comment from the nurses involved nor did it (seemingly) seek to check they were OK after it was broadcast.



Good point that, actually, thanks for making it...  I hadn't thought of that when I first mentioned Derren Brown. I still think his shows are exploitative, but yes, there has to be consent...


----------



## UrbaneFox (Dec 9, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Edmonds got the idea from US deejays (who also inspired the likes of Candid Camera), apparently.


That may be the case, but I'm happy to continue laying 80%of the blame on Noel Edmonds.


----------



## Firky (Dec 9, 2012)

Edmonds has killed before.


----------



## Firky (Dec 9, 2012)

He's also pretty fucking mental, remember that TV show he had where he went all vigilante about shit causes?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Dec 9, 2012)




----------



## Blagsta (Dec 9, 2012)




----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 9, 2012)

Athos said:
			
		

> I'm not pointing to the law. I'm using 'duty of care' in the more general (essentially moral) sense that you used it. That was why I asked the initial question as to whether you were using in the technical legal sense or not.
> 
> As much as I despise the royals, I don't see how they are culpable here. The actions of the DJs precipitated the situation, and the hospital had a duty to the nurse, but I can't see how either of those pertains to the royals.
> 
> ...



I'm just desperately trying to shoe horn them into the frame.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 9, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> But...I have.


yes dear


----------



## Athos (Dec 9, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm just desperately trying to shoe horn them into the frame.


 
To be fair, they're worthy of your hatred without being responsible for this poor woman's death!


----------



## Gromit (Dec 9, 2012)

girasol said:


> Good point that, actually, thanks for making it...  I hadn't thought of that when I first mentioned Derren Brown. I still think his shows are exploitative, but yes, there has to be consent...



Saw the specials he did recently and even the woman he conned into believing in god was at the time of disclosure encouraged to take the positives she'd gained from it and remember that they still came from inside her. 

So I'd say that yes he uses people but he does so to try and make positive points to them and the audience.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 9, 2012)

firky said:


> Edmonds has killed before.


 
Not to mention driving Keith Chegwin to insanity. Didn't Charlie Manson base a lot of his beliefs on Noel's House Party?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 10, 2012)

To be fair to Noel it was he who helped Andy Kershaw get back on his feet and a useful member of society again.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

firky said:


> I argued like fuck on Facebook about this, people were blaming her and saying she is entirely at fault.
> 
> A nurse is there to administer care. Not to vet the identity of callers who have been transferred from the switchboard to her. The police, MI5 or even the Palace should have instructed the hospital staff and warned them of such hoaxes.
> 
> ...



A nurse is however duty bound by data protection. Otherwise anybody at any time could ring hospitals and get personal informationabout patients. 

It may be helpful to think about this less as blame and more as human error.


----------



## gosub (Dec 10, 2012)

I find it strange that the hospital were in under a day able to lay the blame on the djs. I would have expected the statement from the hospital i read in yesterday's paper to be sympathy for family and launching an inquiry.
Either she was unstable or in a really bad work environment to think suicide was the thing to do


----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20662352

I can't believe the impact this shit has had on so many people. Suicide is truly the most selfish, cowardly fucking act of all.

I also find it mind-bendingly fucked up that the Daily Mail is leading the hunt for the blood of these two aussies when they themselves posted a picture of the nurse's home even before she topped herself.


----------



## belboid (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I also find it mind-bendingly fucked up that the Daily Mail is leading the hunt for the blood of these two aussies when they themselves posted a picture of the nurse's home even before she topped herself.


you'd almost think they were trying to shift the blame, wouldn't you?


----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

belboid said:


> you'd almost think they were trying to shift the blame, wouldn't you?


 
The Mail continues to astound me. I can't believe they're allowed to exist, let alone be the biggest online newspaper in the world.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20662352
> 
> I can't believe the impact this shit has had on so many people. Suicide is truly the most selfish, cowardly fucking act of all.
> 
> I also find it mind-bendingly fucked up that the Daily Mail is leading the hunt for the blood of these two aussies when they themselves posted a picture of the nurse's home even before she topped herself.




To be fair I hate this attitude. Sure suicide on paper is selfish.. But cowardly? In the depths of desperation and at a low point surely it would be better to try to understand why this happened rather than label someone with so much disdain. Suicide is a complex issue and people that take their own lives can't always be categorised with such facile labels.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)




----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

She surely realised how many lives she would be wrecking by doing this. Over a fucking phone prank. Sorry, that's both selfish and cowardly. She's got a 14yo daughter, first and foremost. Not to mention the other global ripples she's set off by her massive overreaction.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)




----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> She surely realised how many lives she would be wrecking by doing this. Over a fucking phone prank. Sorry, that's both selfish and cowardly. She's got a 14yo daughter, first and foremost. Not to mention the other global ripples she's set off by her massive overreaction.


 
How sad for the world that not everyone has your immense intestinal fortitude.


----------



## belboid (Dec 10, 2012)

I am somewhat bemused by why the aussies keep pushing the 'I didn't believe we'd ever get through with our appalling accents' line - considering the fact that saying that _does_ actually directly imply 'its the daft nurses fault for putting us through'


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> She surely knee how many lives she would be wrecking by doing this. Over a fucking phone prank. Sorry, that's both selfish and cowardly. She's got a 14yo daughter, first and foremost. Not to mention the other global ripples she's set off by her massive overreaction.



There may have been a whole host of other reasons-you just dont know. To argue she was selfishand cowardly on the basis of the limited information you have is nonsensical sorry.


----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

Not necessarily her fault, but the fact that there wasn't a trained night receptionist on at 'The Royal Family's Favoured Hospital' (TM - Nicholas Witchell) is the hospital's fault.

Either way, suicide is a massive overreaction. I assume there must have been other factors in play in her life.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 10, 2012)

trampie said:


> You are making assumptions based on name and dress straight away.


Not an assumption, an educated guess. I was right too.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

She wasn't suspended but it could've ended out in suspension with a disciplinary hearing and even loss of job. As someone that's personally been through two disciplinarys I cannot begin to tell you how stressful it is . If she had other shit going on in her life this could've been the straw that broke  the camels back. Cut her some slack for fucks sake.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> Either way, suicide is a massive overreaction. I assume there must have been other factors in play in her life.


 
Your assumption doesn't mean much. We understand: you wouldn't kill yourself in this situation. But you aren't her. You can't speak for her beliefs, or what was important to her.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20662352
> 
> I can't believe the impact this shit has had on so many people. Suicide is truly the most selfish, cowardly fucking act of all.
> ....


I don't think that is fair at all, people seriously considering and acting on suicidal urges are desperate, they are at the end of their tethers, they are at such an extreme that they are not rational actors, mentally stable people do not commit suicide, people that do are / were mentally ill.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> Either way, suicide is a massive overreaction.


Oh, I dunno. I imagine being humiliated on a global scale, made to look incompetent across the world's media and possibly getting the sack from a job that you'd trained for all your life - and the feeling that you'd let your friends, workmates, hospital and royal patient down - just might be enough to knock someone over the edge.

Seeing as you have zero experience of what all that must feel like, I suggest you reconsider your insistence that it was all a "massive overreaction."


----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I don't think that is fair at all, people seriously considering and acting on suicidal urges are desperate, they are at the end of their tethers, they are at such an extreme that they are not rational actors, mentally stable people do not commit suicide, people that do are / were mentally ill.


 
Ok. Do you think it's fair to drag these two young radio hosts across to London to face an inquest into this woman's suicide?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I don't think that is fair at all, people seriously considering and acting on suicidal urges are desperate, they are at the end of their tethers, they are at such an extreme that they are not rational actors, mentally stable people do not commit suicide, people that do are / were mentally ill.


 
People commit suicide in extremis. What qualifies as in extremis will be different for each of us.

In the face of the advancing Soviet army, many Germans, both civilians and soldiers, committed suicide. I think it would be hard to argue that they were all mentally ill. They were certainly in extremis.


----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

editor said:


> Seeing as you have zero experience of what all that must feel. I suggest you reconsider your insistence that it was all a "massive overreaction."


 
I have experience of suicide thanks.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I have experience of suicide thanks.


That's not what I asked. How dare you dismiss her death as  a 'massive overreaction' when you know nothing - and I mean *absolutely nothing* - of the kind of pressure she must have been under.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> Ok. Do you think it's fair to drag these two young radio hosts across to London to face an inquest into this woman's suicide?


I have no idea on that. I don't see why they could not be interviewed by video camera.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I have experience of suicide thanks.


...and you're not unique in that, unfortunately. It does seem to have hardened all empathy and compassion out of you which I find desperately sad.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> People commit suicide in extremis. What qualifies as in extremis will be different for each of us.
> 
> In the face of the advancing Soviet army, many Germans, both civilians and soldiers, committed suicide. I think it would be hard to argue that they were all mentally ill. They were certainly in extremis.


 
I think you have to ask yourself the question, is taking your own life something normal stable people do even in response to difficult circumstances? I think the answer is no.


----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

editor said:


> That's not what I asked. How dare you dismiss her death as a 'massive overreaction' when you know nothing - and I mean *absolutely nothing* - of the kind of pressure she must have been under.


 
Fuck off. Don't tell me what or how to post thanks. 

She's committed suicide. The global media has since launched a witch-hunt on two people who by some random twist of fate happened into her life. I'd like to see the other likely factors in her decision exposed, in the interests of fairness. That's all.


----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> ...and you're not unique in that, unfortunately. It does seem to have hardened all empathy and compassion out of you which I find desperately sad.


 
Thank your for your sympathy MrsM. Always appreciated.

You don't feel any empathy for the aussie DJ's in this case I take it?


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

I can't imagine she took the decision to deprive her kids of a mother lightly gabi. Then again you think that decision as cowardly and a massive overreaction. Can you explain how you can come to this conclusion as you seem to have an insight into this case more than most.


----------



## 89 Til Infinity (Dec 10, 2012)

http://www.policymic.com/articles/2...a-suicide-prompts-twitter-conspiracy-theories

Conspiracy theories inbound...


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> She's committed suicide. The global media has since launched a witch-hunt on two people who by some random twist of fate happened into her life. I'd like to see the other likely factors in her decision exposed, in the interests of fairness. That's all.


That's not what you've been saying though, is it?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I think you have to ask yourself the question, is taking your own life something normal stable people do even in response to difficult circumstances? I think the answer is no.


 
I can only speak for myself. And it's arguable that if the difficulty you face becomes great enough, 'normal' and 'stable' stop being adjectives that apply any more.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2012)

89 Til Infinity said:


> http://www.policymic.com/articles/2...a-suicide-prompts-twitter-conspiracy-theories
> 
> Conspiracy theories inbound...


Rarely have I seen such a non article.


----------



## gabi (Dec 10, 2012)

editor said:


> That's not what you've been saying though, is it?


 
I can't be arsed with your games today editor, sorry.

I was voicing my anger at suicide in general, and this case has brought the issue into focus. My own opinion is fairly clear. There's never an excuse. It's the most selfish act of all.

Nothing else to say. Bye.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> Fuck off. Don't tell me what or how to post thanks.
> 
> She's committed suicide. The global media has since launched a witch-hunt on two people who by some random twist of fate happened into her life. I'd like to see the other likely factors in her decision exposed, in the interests of fairness. That's all.


 
But here's the timeline:

Before the call - alive.

Shortly after the call - dead.

Whatever the story of her life, she hadn't ended it before the call. Seems the call had something to do with it.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I can't be arsed with your games today editor, sorry.
> 
> I was voicing my anger at suicide in general, and this case has brought the issue into focus. My own opinion is fairly clear. There's never an excuse. It's the most selfish act of all.
> 
> Nothing else to say. Bye.


 
So that whole 'death with dignity' thing, to allow terminal cancer patients etc the right to die by their own hand - just a bunch of immature selfish people?


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I can't be arsed with your games today editor, sorry.
> 
> I was voicing my anger at suicide in general, and this case has brought the issue into focus. My own opinion is fairly clear. There's never an excuse. It's the most selfish act of all.
> 
> Nothing else to say. Bye.


Yeah! What a stupid, selfish woman - and it was all her own fault too!


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I can't be arsed with your games today editor, sorry.
> 
> I was voicing my anger at suicide in general, and this case has brought the issue into focus. My own opinion is fairly clear. There's never an excuse. It's the most selfish act of all.
> 
> Nothing else to say. Bye.



There may not be an 'excuse' in your myopic world but there's ALWAYS an explanation and you seem to ignore this most basic and obvious fact.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> So that whole 'death with dignity' thing, to allow terminal cancer patients etc the right to die by their own hand - just a bunch of immature selfish people?



... People kil themselves generally because they are in a situation they feel they cannot escape and death seems the only way out for them. You rightly point out Johnny that this is one of many scenarios that should be considered before labelling all suicide as selfish, cowardly and a massive overreaction.


----------



## mattie (Dec 10, 2012)

Jesus.

I think it's fair enough to doubt whether the two DJs are entirely culpable, but blaming a suicide victim for some perceived lack of fortitude seems more than a bit off.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I can't be arsed with your games today editor, sorry.
> 
> I was voicing my anger at suicide in general, and this case has brought the issue into focus. My own opinion is fairly clear. There's never an excuse. It's the most selfish act of all.
> 
> Nothing else to say. Bye.


there quite often is an excuse and it's not always the most selfish thing. history's replete with examples of people accepting certain death for the greater good, for example soldiers jumping onto grenades to save their comrades. it used to be that people who'd fucked up, eg defeated generals, would literally fall on their swords. sometimes there's a clear reason, apparent to everyone; sometimes it's not so clear.


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

In gabis defence clearly personal experiences are coming into play here and thats fair enough . I may disagree with gabis views but can't ignore this is a sensitive issue for gabi.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> ...
> I was voicing my anger at suicide in general, and this case has brought the issue into focus. My own opinion is fairly clear. There's never an excuse. It's the most selfish act of all.
> ....


This is a common reaction to suicide and a statement a lot of people make. As it happens I don't agree with it.

I prefer: "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem!"


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I can't be arsed with your games today editor, sorry.
> 
> I was voicing my anger at suicide in general, and this case has brought the issue into focus. My own opinion is fairly clear. There's never an excuse. It's the most selfish act of all.
> 
> Nothing else to say. Bye.


 

Hello Gabi - what does being angry at suicide mean? 
Anger at the people taking their own lives? This seems both simply pointless for the dead and ultimately useless to those left behind.
Anger at the circumstances which they felt left them with no other choice? I agree.
Anger at the lack of support and care available to those who find themselves in such a terrible place that it only seems to have one way out? Again I agree.

Suicide is definitely explicable; we can and do discover, empathise with and seek to understand the reasons why people take their own lives. Is suicide excusable? That is a moral choice that we have to make; personally I don't think your dismissal of the possibility of excusing suicide does you any favours. 

Suicide isn't necessarily selfish at all. For some they have so little self worth that they see removing themselves from the lives of others as a positive good. They may well be wrong, but they are most certainly not being selfish.

I'm writing this as someone who has worked in the field of mental health for over two decades and as someone, who when I was much younger attempted to take my own life. I am hugely glad that the attempt failed, but my own professional and personal experience tells me that your one size fits all castigation of suicides, doesn't meet the needs of either those who choose to take their own lives or those they leave behind.

Best wishes - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Nylock (Dec 10, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> In gabis defence clearly personal experiences are coming into play here and thats fair enough . I may disagree with gabis views but can't ignore this is a sensitive issue for gabi.


I have had experience of suicide as well and it is a sensitive issue for me, that doesn't stop me thinking this is a tragic case and that gabi's hard-arsed opinions about this are more than a little off-colour.


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## Louis MacNeice (Dec 10, 2012)

Nylock said:


> I have had experience of suicide as well and it is a sensitive issue for me, that doesn't stop me thinking this is a tragic case and that gabi's hard-arsed opinions about this are more than a little off-colour.


 
Sometimes I wish I wasn't so longwinded!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


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## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

The act of suicide can sometimes be selfish in that it doesn't take into consideration those left behind. Doesnt mean  that person is selfish though. Like I said it's complex.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 10, 2012)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Suicide isn't necessarily selfish at all. For some they have so little self worth that they see removing themselves from the lives of others as a positive good. They may well be wrong, but they are most certainly not being selfish.


That's pretty much my experience too. A friend's husband committed suicide because he truly believed it would solve his family's problems, which he, wrongly, felt were all his fault.  A lot of people told his widow that it was the selfish act of a selfish man and it did not help her at all, it just added to her terrible grief.


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## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

Nylock said:


> I have hadsituations. e of suicide as well and it is a sensitive issue for me, that doesn't stop me thinking this is a tragic case and that gabi's hard-arsed opinions about this are more than a little off-colour.



No I agree but people react in differing ways to suicide and the impact it leaves on them.


----------



## ymu (Dec 10, 2012)

I've not read all this thread, so apologies for if I'm repeating what has already been said.



gabi said:


> Fuck off. Don't tell me what or how to post thanks.
> 
> She's committed suicide. The global media has since launched a witch-hunt on two people who by some random twist of fate happened into her life. I'd like to see the other likely factors in her decision exposed, in the interests of fairness. That's all.


I agree with you about the DJs - it was just a very ordinary sort of prank and they shouldn't be getting this amount of grief. But ffs, that's not a reason to start chatting shit about the woman who has died.

I want to know what support she got from her employer, whether any disciplinary action was on the cards, what steps they took to protect her from the media. This happened in the course of her work, and was an entirely predictable type of happening for a hospital which has admitted a royal. The buck stops with them, no one else.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2012)

Grandma Death said:


> In gabis defence clearly personal experiences are coming into play here and thats fair enough . I may disagree with gabis views but can't ignore this is a sensitive issue for gabi.


yeh cos no one else has ever known anyone who's topped themselves.


----------



## Nylock (Dec 10, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> That's pretty much my experience too. A friend's husband committed suicide because he truly believed it would solve his family's problems, which he, wrongly, felt were all his fault. A lot of people told his widow that it was the selfish act of a selfish man and it did not help her at all, it just added to her terrible grief.


This^

...Having some pompous self-righteous arse waxing lyrical about how selfish the suicide is to the grieving relatives is, in some ways, more selfish than the original act...


----------



## Grandma Death (Dec 10, 2012)

If we can express understanding and sympathy behind the complex issues surrounding suicide why can't we extend that same level of understanding to the impact of suicide on other people's lives. I've said my piece. I think gabi's wrong but I also don't think we need to press any further on this issue.


----------



## jusali (Dec 10, 2012)

sometimes life gets so unberable and dark, suicide is the only thought you have, nothing but a way out.....


----------



## geminisnake (Dec 10, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> That's pretty much my experience too. A friend's husband committed suicide because he truly believed it would solve his family's problems, which he, wrongly, felt were all his fault. A lot of people told his widow that it was the selfish act of a selfish man and it did not help her at all, it just added to her terrible grief.


 
That, imo, isn't the act of a true friend!! FFS! If someone commits suicide they ARE NOT thinking straight!! I agree that suicide can be selfish and even though it's crossed my mind I wouldn't go there but to add to someone's grief by saying the above is even more out of order 

It's a massive shame this lady felt it was the only solution to her problems


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 10, 2012)

I can only think they they thought it might absolve any feelings of blame or guilt she might be feeling, I don't know, but whatever the motivation it just made things so much worse for her.


----------



## Blagsta (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> I can't be arsed with your games today editor, sorry.
> 
> I was voicing my anger at suicide in general, and this case has brought the issue into focus. My own opinion is fairly clear. There's never an excuse. It's the most selfish act of all.
> 
> Nothing else to say. Bye.


I'm guessing someone close to you has committed or attempted suicide. You feel angry about that. Join the club. It's a normal reaction. It is possible to move beyond the anger and think about the reasons. I hope one day you can do this.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 10, 2012)

a church I was a member of the ex boyfriend of the pastors daughter hung himself in the church after she dumped him
 just before music practice so she'd be the one to find him


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 10, 2012)

gabi said:


> Ok. Do you think it's fair to drag these two young radio hosts across to London to face an inquest into this woman's suicide?


 
To be fair, they'd likely turn up here anyway, eventually, like the rest of you Antipodean dregs.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 10, 2012)

The interview with the two DJ's has the stench of PR allover it.From smartarsery media types to empathy and crocodile tears for the woman who died in a trice.I don't necessarily think any legal blame could be put on them but as human beings they are shit.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2012)

peterkro said:


> The interview with the two DJ's has the stench of PR allover it.From smartarsery media types to empathy and crocodile tears for the woman who died in a trice.I don't necessarily think any legal blame could be put on them but as human beings they are shit.


I think you're being a little harsh. What they did was fucking stupid, but I've no reason to doubt that they aren't truly sorry for playing their part in the nurse's death.


----------



## Firky (Dec 10, 2012)

Nylock said:


> I have had experience of suicide as well and it is a sensitive issue for me, that doesn't stop me thinking this is a tragic case and that gabi's hard-arsed opinions about this are more than a little off-colour.


 

It may be off colour but it is quite a common and understandable one. Especially with family.

"Why didn't they tell me, we could have fixed it?"


----------



## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

A relative of mine killed herself, I am pretty sure everyone thought what could I have done? could I have prevented it? but the truth was, once she had made up her mind to do it, she went about it in a very determinted way. It deprived her children of a mother and her husband a wife so some may argue the selfish angle but most of us were just overcome with shock, shock that with her life she could have gotten into such a desperate mental state.


----------



## Corax (Dec 10, 2012)

Some of the posts on here about the nurse's duty toward data protection and patient confidentiality are really starting to get my fucking caprinae tbh.

_*I'm obviously a bit thick, so can someone please explain to me exactly where she failed in that regard?*_


----------



## Corax (Dec 10, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> But here's the timeline:
> 
> Before the call - alive.
> 
> ...


Correlation ≠ causation


----------



## CyberRose (Dec 10, 2012)

Corax said:


> Some of the posts on here about the nurse's duty toward data protection and patient confidentiality are really starting to get my fucking caprinae tbh.
> 
> _*I'm obviously a bit thick, so can someone please explain to me exactly where she failed in that regard?*_


Maybe you should start a thread about it?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

Corax said:


> Correlation ≠ causation


 
Yeah; probably just a coincidence that she committed suicide when she did.


----------



## Corax (Dec 10, 2012)

CyberRose said:


> Maybe you should start a thread about it?


You mean because I did, having not received any replies on here?  That's very clever CyberRose!


----------



## Corax (Dec 10, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Yeah; probably just a coincidence that she committed suicide when she did.


Do you live entirely in binary?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 10, 2012)

Watching those DJs interview on the news they look worryingly fragile and shattered. I don't for one minute think they aren't full of remorse. If parts of the media hadn't sensationalised the whole thing beyond all measure of public 'give a fuck', I'm positive this woman wouldn't be dead and these DJs wouldn't have been hounded to the point of a breakdown live on air.

There were parts of the media who acted like the nurses abused their position and disclosed intimate medical details. What was it, she's 'had an uneventful night' and is feeling better. Amazing. Yes they shouldn't have let themselves be duped but as others have said, nurses have better things to be doing than looking out for prank calls at 5am. That it was made headline news, then develops it into a 'royal security breach' and a scandal akin to an unsuccessful terror plot. Fucking press, blowing it out of proportion, just like the Andrew Sachs thing which hardly anybody complained about until the papers made it a national scandal. It was amazing to see how the public were manipulated into creating that particular 'crisis at the BBC' - yet it's the fucking mainstream press, always at the centre of it.


----------



## Corax (Dec 10, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> Watching those DJs interview on the news they look worryingly fragile and shattered. I don't for one minute think they aren't full of remorse. If parts of the media hadn't sensationalised the whole thing beyond all measure of public 'give a fuck', I'm positive this woman wouldn't be dead and these DJs wouldn't have been hounded to the point of a breakdown live on air.
> 
> There were parts of the media who acted like the nurses abused their position and disclosed intimate medical details. What was it, she's 'had an uneventful night' and is feeling better. Amazing. Yes they shouldn't have let themselves be duped but as others have said, nurses have better things to be doing than looking out for prank calls at 5am. That it was made headline news, then develops it into a 'royal security breach' and a scandal akin to an unsuccessful terror plot. Fucking press, blowing it out of proportion, just like the Andrew Sachs thing which hardly anybody complained about until the papers made it a national scandal. It was amazing to see how the public were manipulated into creating that particular 'crisis at the BBC' - yet it's the fucking mainstream press, always at the centre of it.


Quite.


----------



## Jazzz (Dec 10, 2012)

I think there is more to this. I am not sure this woman committed suicide at all. She wasn't named as being involved, faced no disciplinary issues, had done nothing wrong. There was little to commit suicide over.



> The relatives of nurse Jacintha Saldanha have revealed that she told no one in the family about the prank call that has been blamed for driving her to suicide.
> Members of the family gathered at the south Indian home of Saldanha's mother-in-law, Carmine Barboza, to console one another after news reached them of the tragedy.
> They said that neither Saldanha nor her husband, Benedict Barboza, had talked of the hoax phone call or given any clue that she had been under any pressure or strain.


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/jacintha-saldanha-hoax-call-india


----------



## Corax (Dec 10, 2012)




----------



## Dan U (Dec 10, 2012)

it's that Prince Phillip again isn't it.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 10, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I think there is more to this. I am not sure this woman committed suicide at all. She wasn't named as being involved, faced no disciplinary issues, had done nothing wrong. There was little to commit suicide over.


For one so keen on _*hidden*_ power, I'm interested how you can reach that conclusion (whether she was facing an actual disciplinary process or something off record)?


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 10, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I think there is more to this. I am not sure this woman committed suicide at all. She wasn't named as being involved, faced no disciplinary issues, had done nothing wrong. There was little to commit suicide over.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/jacintha-saldanha-hoax-call-india



Pfft

It aliens

*dons tin foil hat and shakes fist at sky*


----------



## Wilf (Dec 10, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I think there is more to this. I am not sure this woman committed suicide at all. She wasn't named as being involved, faced no disciplinary issues, had done nothing wrong. There was little to commit suicide over.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/jacintha-saldanha-hoax-call-india


Ah, I see your interest/source:
http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/...ly-says-she-told-them-nothing-about-hoax-call


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## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

So, it seems:

First the DJs made the prank phone call which the nurses did not twig.

But then their radio station tried to get in touch with the nurses or the hospital to get permission to play the tape on the radio. I wonder if the nurse who committed suicide was aware of this second communication.

Then there were whatever actions of the British media, whatever they did.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 10, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I think there is more to this. I am not sure this woman committed suicide at all. She wasn't named as being involved, faced no disciplinary issues, had done nothing wrong. There was little to commit suicide over.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/jacintha-saldanha-hoax-call-india


 
There's been the normal discussion up to now; now it's time for the looneytunes part of the discussion.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 10, 2012)

weltweit said:


> So, it seems:
> 
> First the DJs made the prank phone call which the nurses did not twig.
> 
> ...


I suspect there's a bit of 'positioning' going on over that.  If a media organisation had really wanted to make official contact with a high profile hospital and/or the royal press office, they would have managed it.  However if they did try to get in touch and got no reply it really does beg the question you pose (as to whether they nurse knew this - [unlikely]).


----------



## Espresso (Dec 10, 2012)

If it so happens that the inquest finds that Jacintha Saldahna did not commit suicide by anything identifiably suicidal, but that she died because she fell down the stairs or had a heart attack or was overcome by the fumes from a dodgy gas fitting, the "Philip ordered MI5 to do a Diana on her" crew will go utterly bizarroloonybonkers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2012)

from ian bone's blog: 





> It’s not the DJ’s fault, it’s not the hospital, not the nurse. It’s THE ROYALS. The issue here is that the receptionist’s death is symptomatic of the crazed idolisation of the royal family among the British media. That the nurse would have any reason to believe that a world in which she had embarrassed Kate Middleton was one she couldn’t bear to exist in, is abhorrent.You think N. Korea is over the top with it’s adulation of the ‘dear leader’?
> Every fawning royal enthusiast is to blame.


----------



## CyberRose (Dec 10, 2012)

Corax said:


> You mean because I did, having not received any replies on here? That's very clever CyberRose!


Quoted for prosperity


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2012)

police release pictures of those they want to interview in connection with the nurse's suicide


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## gosub (Dec 10, 2012)

weltweit said:


> So, it seems:
> 
> First the DJs made the prank phone call which the nurses did not twig.
> 
> ...


 
Coz the radio would have known it had to ring a different number to get permission to use it.... the odds of the same person answering the same phone on the same day......


----------



## weltweit (Dec 10, 2012)

gosub said:


> Coz the radio would have known it had to ring a different number to get permission to use it.... the odds of the same person answering the same phone on the same day......


 
Whatever, but she had to learn about the fact that she had been pranked somehow, so did she learn from the hospital staff in some way or from the UK media when the clip was being played ... just wondering.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 10, 2012)

I seriously doubt they ever rang the hospital back once, let alone five times to check it was ok to air the call. What would be the point. They're just trying to cover their arses.


----------



## gosub (Dec 10, 2012)

weltweit said:


> Whatever, but she had to learn about the fact that she had been pranked somehow, so did she learn from the hospital staff in some way or from the UK media when the clip was being played ... just wondering.


it ain't whatever - its what if  -what if *she* gave all the permissions the radio station needed.....


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 10, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> I seriously doubt they ever rang the hospital back once, let alone five times to check it was ok to air the call. What would be the point. They're just trying to cover their arses.


so?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 10, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> so?


 
so what?


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## Grandma Death (Dec 11, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I think there is more to this. I am not sure this woman committed suicide at all. She wasn't named as being involved, faced no disciplinary issues, had done nothing wrong. There was little to commit suicide over.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/jacintha-saldanha-hoax-call-india



We'll never know if disciplinary action action was in the offing or not. Remember she died days after the incident and conducting a full blown investigation and hearing can take weeks if not months. With her dying the hospital are hardly likely to now admit this was a course of action they may have been considering.


----------



## Waiheke.Island (Dec 11, 2012)

skyscraper101 said:


> I seriously doubt they ever rang the hospital back once, let alone five times to check it was ok to air the call. What would be the point. They're just trying to cover their arses.


I agree. They got through first time without any problems with the prank call but couldn't through 5 times in a row to ask for permission. What a load of shit!


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Dec 11, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I think there is more to this. I am not sure this woman committed suicide at all. She wasn't named as being involved, faced no disciplinary issues, had done nothing wrong. There was little to commit suicide over.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/09/jacintha-saldanha-hoax-call-india


 
You think there's more to everything. You think it so hard that you're willing to indulge in a little bit of neo-necrophilia.

Louis Macneice


----------



## Citizen66 (Dec 11, 2012)

CyberRose said:
			
		

> Quoted for prosperity



posterity.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 11, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> posterity.


 
Maybe CyberRose was hoping to blackmail Corax?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Dec 11, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I think there is more to this. I am not sure this woman committed suicide at all. She wasn't named as being involved, faced no disciplinary issues, had done nothing wrong. There was little to commit suicide over.


 
Those fucking lizard-people!


----------



## gabi (Dec 11, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> To be fair, they'd likely turn up here anyway, eventually, like the rest of you Antipodean dregs.


 
Erm, nope, I think they've got enough of a clue not to pitch up here with the pig-ignorant Daily Mail wielding hordes waiting to lynch them


----------



## ViolentPanda (Dec 11, 2012)

gabi said:


> Erm, nope, I think they've got enough of a clue not to pitch up here with the pig-ignorant Daily Mail wielding hordes waiting to lynch them


 
I'd like to think so, and I hope so, but I'm not going to make or take any bets on the matter.


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## gabi (Dec 11, 2012)

Looks like the radio station's going all out on the PR front

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20673899


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 11, 2012)

The dj's careers are probably finished as well.  Its just shit sandwiches all round really.  I think there is a lot truth in that Ian Bone comment above, blood on the hands of the royals and all the snivelling weirdo obssesive sycophants.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 11, 2012)

gabi said:


> Looks like the radio station's going all out on the PR front
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20673899


 Keith Vaz.  Yuk.   I really, really hope they invited him to speak for them and that he hasn't just muscled his way in.  Long way from Leicester, he just seems to gravitate towards anything South Indian.


----------



## gabi (Dec 11, 2012)

Teaboy said:


> The dj's careers are probably finished as well. Its just shit sandwiches all round really. I think there is a lot truth in that Ian Bone comment above, blood on the hands of the royals and all the snivelling weirdo obssesive sycophants.


 
I dont think blame can be pointed at the Royals or the DJs. If anyone, it's the hospital's fault for not having a receptionist on duty, but who could have foreseen this fucked up situation? Completely random.

No idea what Keith Vaz is doing putting his face in the frame either tho. Somehow related to his role in the media ethics thing maybe?


----------



## two sheds (Dec 11, 2012)

I keep seeing headlines saying "DJs gutted" which I think is a bit harsh for a prank phone call.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 11, 2012)

Not been a good year for DJs.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 11, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Not been a good year for DJs.


 
The bankers, politicians and journalists must be pissing themselves.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 11, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> The bankers, politicians and journalists must be pissing themselves.


 






They're probably just glad we haven't taken proper notice of them yet.


----------



## gabi (Dec 11, 2012)

Not been a good year for satire or a free press either. Methinks the likes of Chris Morris and the producers of Fonejacker will be watching this bullshit with trepidation.


----------



## gosub (Dec 11, 2012)

gabi said:


> Looks like the radio station's going all out on the PR front
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20673899


 

That's not just PR, that's survival -only donating profits.  Any advertiser who decides to walk away from the train wreck is depriving the family of money (as well as the radio station of running cost money)


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 11, 2012)

gabi said:


> Not been a good year for satire or a free press either. Methinks the likes of Chris Morris and the producers of Fonejacker will be watching this bullshit with trepidation.


The ghost of four fingers.


----------



## UrbaneFox (Dec 12, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> So when a royal goes into hospital, should the regular receptionists, front desk clerks, etc. be replaced by members of the royal security detail, in case someone should attempt to contact the royal?
> 
> What about the immense amount of regular telephone/communication business that is constantly going on in a hospital?


 
Johnny, when senior royals go in to hospital, there are police officers around the building. The routine is that if someone phones the hospital claiming to be a royal the call is directed to a police officer who has the code word of the day, and they deal with it.


----------



## Callie (Dec 12, 2012)

How do you know that urbanefox? Just out of interest


----------



## UrbaneFox (Dec 12, 2012)

I just do.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Dec 12, 2012)

UrbaneFox said:


> Johnny, when senior royals go in to hospital, there are police officers around the building. The routine is that if someone phones the hospital claiming to be a royal the call is directed to a police officer who has the code word of the day, and they deal with it.


 
and the code word today _is_....Jimmy Saville.


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## UrbaneFox (Dec 12, 2012)

That's two words. BANG


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## gosub (Dec 13, 2012)

you shot the phone!!


----------



## gabi (Dec 13, 2012)

blatant pearoast from the jokes thread

What's the difference between a practical joke and a temperature.

A nurse can take a temperature.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 13, 2012)

Apparently the nurse who committed suicide was found hanged.
She apparently left three notes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20710644


----------



## UrbaneFox (Dec 13, 2012)

The Daily Mail says 'hanged' in quotation marks.
I think they have been told not to say 'hung' by millions of angry readers. These people care.


----------



## two sheds (Dec 13, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/13/jacintha-saldanha-suicide-notes



> One of three apparent suicide notes left by the nurse at the centre of the royal hoax call criticised staff at the King Edward VII hospital where she worked, the Guardian has learned.


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## gabi (Dec 13, 2012)

I hope the hospital will be as ready with an apology to the Djs as the Djs were to the nurse's family if it turns out it was the hospital's actions that were the major contributor to her death.


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## sam goloden (Dec 14, 2012)

gabi said:


> I hope the hospital will be as ready with an apology to the Djs as the Djs were to the nurse's family if it turns out it was the hospital's actions that were the major contributor to her death.


 


No matter what the issue, it's always better to get an apology in early. Apologies are now what makes the world go round.

No matter how fucked up it all gets, there will always be the apologies to look forward to.

(I apologise for these comments-in advance. See how it's done?)


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## Barking_Mad (Dec 14, 2012)

'Not facing any disciplinary action' is not the same as 'Being given a right good bollocking'.


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## two sheds (Dec 14, 2012)

two sheds said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/13/jacintha-saldanha-suicide-notes


 
Independent now saying that the suicide note criticised "senior" hospital staff.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ess-of-cambridge-phone-call-hoax-8414042.html


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2012)

two sheds said:


> Independent now saying that the suicide note criticised "senior" hospital staff.
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ess-of-cambridge-phone-call-hoax-8414042.html


Well, they're just re-reporting the Grauniad.



> One note apparently deals with the hoax call from the 2Day FM DJs, another details her requests for her funeral, and the third addresses her employers, the hospital, and contains criticism of staff there, according to the Guardian, who say they have spoken with two separate sources.


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## two sheds (Dec 14, 2012)

Fair do's, the Guardian didn't mention that it was senior staff though. Doesn't sound like she was given the support the hospital suggests she was given.


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## elbows (Dec 14, 2012)

I think it was the mirror that talked to people which lead to the word senior:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/kate-middleton-prank-call-royal-1488880





> But in another she criticises senior colleagues at the King Edward VII hospital over her treatment after the pair had pretended to be the Queen and Prince Charles asking about the duchess’s condition. That note is said to have left her family furious.





> Grieving husband Ben Barboza is understood to want an inquiry into the hospital and an independent probe into the days leading up to her death.
> 
> A source close to Jacintha’s family said: “One of the letters, which is the longest, deals with the hospital and is critical in its tone. Needless to say, Ben wants a full inquiry into what happened, and he wants to make sure the truth comes out. Within the letter Jacintha calls into question some of the treatment she received at the hospital.”


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 27, 2012)

edit


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## Firky (Dec 27, 2012)

Probably best for another thread, JC2. 

That is one of the funniest news stories of the decade too. That woman is a legend.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 27, 2012)

firky said:


> Probably best for another thread, JC2.
> 
> That is one of the funniest news stories of the decade too. That woman is a legend.


\
Not dead, though. Life is strange, isn't it?


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 27, 2012)

You're right: probably would get a bad reception, even though the intention was pure.


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## Firky (Dec 27, 2012)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> \
> Not dead, though. Life is strange, isn't it?


 
It is, but I find people stranger. 



Johnny Canuck3 said:


> You're right: probably would get a bad reception, even though the intention was pure.


I know that but you know what it can be like on here.


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## Giles (Jul 10, 2013)

Apparently the woman radio presenter who did this prank call is now suing the radio station for"not providing a safe workplace" or some such!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-radio-station-providing-safe-workplace.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...l-greig_n_3571183.html?utm_hp_ref=uk?ncid=GEP

Giles..


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## gabi (Jul 10, 2013)

Fair enough too imo. The station's lawyers cleared the prank to go out. She got hung out to dry.


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## andysays (Jul 10, 2013)

Giles said:


> Apparently the woman radio presenter who did this prank call is now suing the radio station for"not providing a safe workplace" or some such!
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-radio-station-providing-safe-workplace.html
> 
> ...


 
I wonder if the dead nurse's family will be following her example and sueing the KE VII


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