# One week in Greece - Anarchist Solidarity with French Uprisings



## Raw SslaC (Dec 7, 2005)

*One week on Libcom*


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## revol68 (Dec 7, 2005)

Raw SslaC said:
			
		

> One week in Greece - Anarchist Solidarity with French Uprisings
> 
> >Be warned that the text below is from an america security website
> 
> ...



NEWS FLASH!!! NEWS FLASH!!!!

FRENCH STATE ANNOUNCES IT COULDN"T GIVE TWO FUCKS, GREEK ANARKISTS CATCH THEMSELVES ON AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL.


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## treelover (Dec 8, 2005)

Who cares, i wonder how old they are?


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## Raw SslaC (Dec 8, 2005)

Umm...thats what I thought....how OLD are they?


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## FifthFromFront (Dec 8, 2005)

treelover said:
			
		

> Who cares, i wonder how old they are?



Because as we all know that *really* matters doesn't it


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> NEWS FLASH!!! NEWS FLASH!!!!
> 
> FRENCH STATE ANNOUNCES IT COULDN"T GIVE TWO FUCKS, GREEK ANARKISTS CATCH THEMSELVES ON AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL.


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## cats hammers (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> NEWS FLASH!!! NEWS FLASH!!!!
> 
> FRENCH STATE ANNOUNCES IT COULDN"T GIVE TWO FUCKS, GREEK ANARKISTS CATCH THEMSELVES ON AND DO SOMETHING USEFUL.



You mean this isn't going to give us communism?


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## montevideo (Dec 8, 2005)

& sitting cross legged in the park discussing marx is


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## revol68 (Dec 8, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> & sitting cross legged in the park discussing marx is



not pretending to, doesn't lead to state repression, and if you bring a nice little hamper of chicken avocado salad, selection of cheeses and a bottle of wine you can have a very nice time.


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## cats hammers (Dec 8, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> & sitting cross legged in the park discussing marx is



Really?

Brilliant!  Fun, informative AND practical!

How could you lose?


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## cats hammers (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> not pretending to, doesn't lead to state repression, and if you bring a nice little hamper of chicken avocado salad, selection of cheeses and a bottle of wine you can have a very nice time.



Don't be stupid, 'fun' is counter-revolutionary and takes up valuble doin' somethin' time.


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## montevideo (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> not pretending to, doesn't lead to state repression, and if you bring a nice little hamper of chicken avocado salad, selection of cheeses and a bottle of wine you can have a very nice time.



my thirteen year old cousins want a computer game for christmas. What do you recommend?


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## montevideo (Dec 8, 2005)

jackwupton said:
			
		

> Really?
> 
> Brilliant!  Fun, informative AND practical!
> 
> How could you lose?



aye for the 3 of you doing it. Maybe after we can have a rousing chorus of the internationale eh?


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## revol68 (Dec 8, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> my thirteen year old cousins want a computer game for christmas. What do you recommend?



what format and what type of shit are they into?


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> not pretending to, doesn't lead to state repression, and if you bring a nice little hamper of chicken avocado salad, selection of cheeses and a bottle of wine you can have a very nice time.



Botanic Gardens can be beautiful in the sunshine.

But you have to hide your booze if The Man comes around.


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## Emma Herself (Dec 8, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> my thirteen year old cousins want a computer game for christmas. What do you recommend?



Computer games are just propaganda from The Man.


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## revol68 (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Botanic Gardens can be beautiful in the sunshine.
> 
> But you have to hide your booze if The Man comes around.



aye it's right and shite that you can't drink in the park.

We went to Opera thing in the summer and it was great.

Last time I was was there kicking with my ho I was interupted by a tall ginger american enthusing about how he was relating Negri to water technology in Northern Ireland.


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## revol68 (Dec 8, 2005)

Zoë Herself said:
			
		

> Computer games are just propaganda from The Man.



Not once I get some geeks to build my Call Of Duty 2: July 36 mod.


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## sovietpop (Dec 8, 2005)




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## montevideo (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> aye it's right and shite that you can't drink in the park.
> 
> We went to Opera thing in the summer and it was great.
> 
> Last time I was was there kicking with my ho I was interupted by a *tall ginger american *enthusing about how he was relating Negri to water technology in Northern Ireland.



5' 2"?


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## JHE (Dec 8, 2005)

Raw SslaC said:
			
		

> (Thessaloniki) On November 10, approximately 40 hooded and masked persons attacked the French Institute with crowbars and threw stones, shattering numerous windows.
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


WTF have these Anarchists got against Greeks studying French?

If they really must commit arson, couldn't they stick to burning down the car dealerships?


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## cats hammers (Dec 8, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> Maybe after we can have a rousing chorus of the internationale eh?



We only needed to do it once, because we recorded it and have it on MP3.


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## cats hammers (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> what format and what type of shit are they into?



You're short AND you like videogames, you're such a dweeb.

Chortle!


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## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Botanic Gardens can be beautiful in the sunshine.
> 
> But you have to hide your booze if The Man comes around.


piece of piss: water bottle, empty, fill with vodka, yr away.

works for any clear spirit, too.


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## revol68 (Dec 8, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> piece of piss: water bottle, empty, fill with vodka, yr away.
> 
> works for any clear spirit, too.



One is a bit more sophisticated than drinking vodka from a bottle, though I suppouse one could but a nice Shiraz in a ribena bottle.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> One is a bit more sophisticated than drinking vodka from a bottle, though I suppouse one could but a nice Shiraz in a ribena bottle.


yr learning...

now all you have to do is find a friend who's able to buy it without showing dodgy id.


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## revol68 (Dec 8, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> yr learning...
> 
> now all you have to do is find a friend who's able to buy it without showing dodgy id.



my masculine beard makes sure i get served.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> my masculine beard makes sure i get served.







and you'll get a slap if i catch you with that false beard again


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## revol68 (Dec 8, 2005)

i quite like my youthful looks.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> I was interupted by a tall ginger american enthusing about how he was relating Negri to water technology in Northern Ireland.



That's right, and he's gonna do it and all!

Anyway, why the hostility? I had to share an office with him, don't forget. He's no madder than any other anthropologist/historian of science.

Aren't we all fighting for the same better world, where a man can relate Negri to seven different kinds of technology before breakfast?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Aren't we all fighting for the same better world, where a man can relate Negri to seven different kinds of technology before breakfast?


if you're going to discuss negri that early, it's not a proper revolution.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

Well, in that case we'd talk about the affair Dr. X is having with Professor Y.

You vulgar proletarian types could talk about the football or something.


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

Are you not a proletarian?


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## Pickman's model (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Well, in that case we'd talk about the affair Dr. X is having with Professor Y.
> 
> You vulgar proletarian types could talk about the football or something.


about lunchtime's fine - but before breakfast?


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Are you not a proletarian?



What on earth gave you that idea dear boy?

ADDS:

Check your pms, if you would be so good.


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

The Pride of Petrograd.  I half expected you to be a Vyborg factory worker, recently joined as a member of the Red Guard, roaming around the frosty Nevsky at night, with your machine gun, scowling and slurring under your vodka breath "tebya tozhe" to posh people walking past in their "German clothes".


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

Checking pm's.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> The Pride of Petrograd.  I half expected you to be a Vyborg factory worker, recently joined as a member of the Red Guard, roaming around the frosty Nevsky at night, with your machine gun, scowling and slurring under your vodka breath "tebya tozhe" to posh people walking past in their "German clothes".



Ah if it only it were that simple!

In the immortal words of Maxim Gorky, 'Don't trust that Nevsky Prospect'!


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## sovietpop (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Aren't we all fighting for the same better world, where a man can relate Negri to seven different kinds of technology before breakfast?




 I know you your taking about and I bet you're not joking either, I think he must be powered by some sort of very advanced alien technology - his batteries never seem to run down.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

He is one of the good guys, though, as was A*** W***, who I used to _share a house with _.


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Ah if it only it were that simple!
> 
> In the immortal words of Maxim Gorky, 'Don't trust that Nevsky Prospect'!



Your pm box is full, so here is my message-

_I don't know.  But I thought like in Moscow, Piter would have calls within the city free of charge.  You are charged for calls outside the Moscow area code of course.  You must have been calling people a lot in Primorvsky Krai or summat eh?_

Nevsky? Decadent as fuck.  The Lower Depths mate.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

I've had to make some international calls as well, that may have done it.

Maybe there's some other reason.

As for NP, it is as you say it is. I mean look at all the nude statuary!


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> Ah if it only it were that simple!



True.   

I mean Petrograd was the name change to make your wonderful city not sound so Hun-like.  If you are a proper proletarian Bolshevik then you would have said Petersburg.

Fucking _Petrograd_ Soviet.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

There's an old Irish song called 'Pride of Petravore'.

My tag line was a pun, or a play on words.


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> I've had to make some international calls as well, that may have done it.
> 
> Maybe there's some other reason.
> 
> As for NP, it is as you say it is. I mean look at all the nude statuary!



Coudn't see owt for designer clothing boutiques, KFC,  Students pretending to be poor buskers, playing renditions of crap russian punk songs.  Oh and snotty rich Russian teenagers strutting around wearing those Palestinian headscarve thingies.  Stepan Razin is a nice drink though.  

Have you been to the Liverpool Club?  Fuck me, that was a so shit it's good experience.  Nice atmosphere, the Cavern mock-up Beatles theme bar complete with Beatles tribute band (with a woman?) was  fun.  I had a great time.  And when feeling a little hungry and taking a peek at the menu, what was before my eyes, but the words- Fish and Chips!


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## Idris2002 (Dec 8, 2005)

I tend to stick to Mollie's Irish Pub, when around Nevsky. It is actually pretty authentic, he wrote, cringing.

Box cleared now, but it's probably no longer necessary.


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> There's an old Irish song called 'Pride of Petravore'.
> 
> My tag line was a pun, or a play on words.



 oooooohhhhhhh


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## Ryazan (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> I tend to stick to Mollie's Irish Pub, when around Nevsky. It is actually pretty authentic, he wrote, cringing.
> 
> Box cleared now, but it's probably no longer necessary.



There is a Molly Gwen's in Moscow.  Didn't seem authentic to me.  Lot's of waitresses in low cut tops and short, very short, tartan skirts.


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## Nigel Irritable (Dec 8, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> He is one of the good guys, though, as was A*** W***, who I used to _share a house with _.



You talking about one of my lot there?


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## revol68 (Dec 8, 2005)

yeah i know'em too, nice guy was origionally involved with schnews years ago.


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## Nigel Irritable (Dec 8, 2005)

This is getting like a communist version of the Kevin Bacon game.


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## LLETSA (Dec 9, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> There is a Molly Gwen's in Moscow.  Didn't seem authentic to me.  Lot's of waitresses in low cut tops and short, very short, tartan skirts.





Is the Arbat Irish House still on Novy Arbat?  It was still Kalinin Prospect when I first went in there.  As far as I know it was the first Irish theme pub in the USSR.


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## Random (Dec 9, 2005)

yeah


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## Ryazan (Dec 9, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> Is the Arbat Irish House still on Novy Arbat?  It was still Kalinin Prospect when I first went in there.  As far as I know it was the first Irish theme pub in the USSR.



I think you are on about the Shamrock Bar.  It is still there but have never been in.  It was I think the first foreign venture drinking establishment to be opened in the dying days of the Soviet Union, during the Perestroika period of the Eighties.  I don't usually go around that area if I want to drink, it is too expensive, but mind you, some other establishments further out can be dangerous!  Molly Gwens is not an Irish theme pub, but supposed to be English, like the John Bull.  It is not far from the Tretyakov museum.  I did have the pleasure of sitting in another "English" pub called The Albion which is situated not far from Red Square.  This was in August and it was bloody hot.  The Stella was nectar.  I had been to a shop near the G.U.M to buy my girlfriend some Doc Marten boots.  She can't afford that kind of thing.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 9, 2005)

Nigel Irritable said:
			
		

> You talking about one of my lot there?



One of your ex-members by now, but yes.


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## Nigel Irritable (Dec 9, 2005)

A political renegade you mean? Remind me to ruthlessly ostracise him...


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## Idris2002 (Dec 9, 2005)

I think he's found more congenial company by now. Anyway, I've lost touch with him, so I don't know what's he up to these days.


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## Herbert Read (Dec 9, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I think you are on about the Shamrock Bar.  It is still there but have never been in.  It was I think the first foreign venture drinking establishment to be opened in the dying days of the Soviet Union, during the Perestroika period of the Eighties.  I don't usually go around that area if I want to drink, it is too expensive, but mind you, some other establishments further out can be dangerous!  Molly Gwens is not an Irish theme pub, but supposed to be English, like the John Bull.  It is not far from the Tretyakov museum.  I did have the pleasure of sitting in another "English" pub called The Albion which is situated not far from Red Square.  This was in August and it was bloody hot.  The Stella was nectar.  I had been to a shop near the G.U.M to buy my girlfriend some Doc Marten boots.  She can't afford that kind of thing.



G.U.M

Genito Urinary Medicine GUM Clinic you hound


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## In Bloom (Dec 9, 2005)

JHE said:
			
		

> WTF have these Anarchists got against Greeks studying French?
> 
> If they really must commit arson, couldn't they stick to burning down the car dealerships?


What are you, an intellectual?


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## Ryazan (Dec 9, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> G.U.M
> 
> Genito Urinary Medicine GUM Clinic you hound



Gosudarstvenny Universalny Magazin. But, I have had to visit the type of clinic that you have mentioned on two occasions.


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## Ryazan (Dec 9, 2005)

In Bloom said:
			
		

> What are you, an intellectual?



Not like you.


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## catch (Dec 9, 2005)

JHE said:
			
		

> WTF have these Anarchists got against Greeks studying French?
> 
> If they really must commit arson, couldn't they stick to burning down the car dealerships?



I know an anarchist who _works_ at the French Institute (not the one in Greece though). Good job they didn't firebomb that one.


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## LLETSA (Dec 9, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I think you are on about the Shamrock Bar.  It is still there but have never been in.  It was I think the first foreign venture drinking establishment to be opened in the dying days of the Soviet Union, during the Perestroika period of the Eighties.  I don't usually go around that area if I want to drink, it is too expensive, but mind you, some other establishments further out can be dangerous!  Molly Gwens is not an Irish theme pub, but supposed to be English, like the John Bull.  It is not far from the Tretyakov museum.  I did have the pleasure of sitting in another "English" pub called The Albion which is situated not far from Red Square.  This was in August and it was bloody hot.  The Stella was nectar.  I had been to a shop near the G.U.M to buy my girlfriend some Doc Marten boots.  She can't afford that kind of thing.





I don't remember it being called the Shamrock Bar, although it could have been.  It might have been just the supermarket it was attached to that was called the Irish House. It was, as far as I know, the first foreign-owned bar, or joint venture, as they used to call them, in the USSR.  It was an almost surreal experience coming across it in 1991, so little westernisation (if that's the right term for it) was there in Moscow at the time. To be sitting drinking Guinness in that kind of bar would have been unimaginable only a year earlier.

Many of the Russians I knew were shit scared of the typically Soviet restaurants and bars on Kalinin.  Apparently they'd recently become hangouts of some really serious characters in the burgeoning mafia.  Dickhead here, however, dragged the Russians he was staying with into a couple of them without them uttering a squeak of protest before realising any of this.  Maybe they were secretly hoping I'd become the first foreign victim of the Russian mafia....


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## In Bloom (Dec 9, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Not like you.


Did I piss in your pint once and forget about it?  Seriously, what's your fucking problem?


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## Ryazan (Dec 9, 2005)

I think that most unsavoury mafia activities are largely out of view and not in the way of humble western visitors and tourists.  It is petty criminals you have to watch out for.  I foiled a pickpocket when in Ryazan myself, spotted him in the corner of my eye moving up close beside me, while walking with my girlfriend in a street, I turned and stared at him, and he just stopped grinned and shadyed off somewhere else.  That and nearly having my watch nicked off my wrist by a young beggar this summer!  Can't blame him though.  He was literally dirt poor.  Mind you, at a classy (  ) venue called the Krater Klub in Ryazan there is bowling alley and VIP restaurant attached- a group of us fancied a game of bowling but all the lanes were taken up by sharply dressed, but shady looking men in their middle age with attractive women in their early twenties.  We asked for a lane, but the staff just told us not tonight.  It turned out they were local mafiosi.  "Patrons" to the club.

I always find it it quite astonishing how much organised crime has penetrated into Russian life.  I read about two of the main gangs in Moscow during the supposedly wild 90's, before the economy going all tits up- the Dolgapruadanskaya and Solnstznevskaya gangs fighting it out for control.  A humble tourist should be fine, but if you are a business man or banker, or somebody with access to a lot of money, then expect a visit from the mafia.


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## LLETSA (Dec 9, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I think that most unsavoury mafia activities are largely out of view and not in the way of humble western visitors and tourists.  It is petty criminals you have to watch out for.  I foiled a pickpocket when in Ryazan myself, spotted him in the corner of my eye moving up close beside me, while walking with my girlfriend in a street, I turned and stared at him, and he just stopped grinned and shadyed off somewhere else.  That and nearly having my watch nicked off my wrist by a young beggar this summer!  Can't blame him though.  He was literally dirt poor.  Mind you, at a classy (  ) venue called the Krater Klub in Ryazan there is bowling alley and VIP restaurant attached- a group of us fancied a game of bowling but all the lanes were taken up by sharply dressed, but shady looking men in their middle age with attractive women in their early twenties.  We asked for a lane, but the staff just told us not tonight.  It turned out they were local mafiosi.  "Patrons" to the club.
> 
> I always find it it quite astonishing how much organised crime has penetrated into Russian life.  I read about two of the main gangs in Moscow during the supposedly wild 90's, before the economy going all tits up- the Dolgapruadanskaya and Solnstznevskaya gangs fighting it out for control.  A humble tourist should be fine, but if you are a business man or banker, or somebody with access to a lot of money, then expect a visit from the mafia.





I know; I didn't notice a thing out of the ordinary (for Moscow, I mean) in those restaurants.  The worst that happened was that the waitresses wouldn't bring us wine. They said that they were out of it, then proceeded to serve other tables dotted around the room with as much wine as they wanted.  The Russians I was with said that they were hoarding it and then selling it at their own price to those who were in-the-know.  The best thing to do, they said, was to tell them to fuck off.  Looking back on it, I'm probably glad that we never drew attention to ourselves in that way.

Many bars and restaurants were charging pretty much what they wanted at the arse-end of perestroika.  To an average-to-poorish westerner like me it wasn't a problem, but, as you'll probably know, it pissed most Russians off no end.  The rouble bars were the wackiest.  I remember the downstairs rouble bar at the Cosmos Hotel was selling Sovietskoye Champanskoye for fifty roubles a bottle around the time of the August 1991 putsch.  To most Russians it was an unthinkable amount to pay.  To me, it was about two quid fifty or so, if I remember rightly.  As you can imagine, this made the place quite an attractive proposition, even if you had to keep your gaze averted from the mean-looking Georgian pimps that frequented the place.

Another Russian I knew said that the tragedy was that when his father was young, during the sixties and early seventies, those very same restaurants were accesible to anybody and served reasonably good food at a price almost everybody could afford.


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## Ryazan (Dec 10, 2005)

My gf's family do speak of Breshnevian times as being quite good for consumer goods and relatively okay standards of living, with travelling to Moscow to take advantage of buying some imported goods being allowed to be sold in shops there, this was in the mid-seventies; but mind you her family had some special treatment with the grandmother on her mother's side being a respected and well known artist.  Belonging to the artists union meant some perks, like preferencial treatment with things like housing.  Equality, socialism etc....... Breshnev was a corrupt buffoon though, but better scripted in speaking than George Bush Junior.  I wonder how many pointless medals he awarded himself throughout his career as great leader.



Now in the Moscow, which is hardly representative of Russian life out in the provinces, there is a bewildering amount of choice in terms of eateries, faddish, pretensious, cultured of otherwise.  It is all there, the thing is you just need money.


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## soulman (Dec 11, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> My gf's family
> <usual bollocks removed>



Congratulations. You are the thickest IWCA supporter/member I've ever encountered. Have a comedy stalinist medal for your efforts.

Wear it with pride -


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## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

soulman said:
			
		

> Congratulations. You are the thickest IWCA supporter/member I've ever encountered.



Why is that then?


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## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

Thanks for the medal, I noticed this inscription on it: Nashe Delo Pravoe Me Pobedili.

What does that mean then?


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## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

Without cutting and pasting it into Google.


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## soulman (Dec 11, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Thanks for the medal, I noticed this inscription on it: Nashe Delo Pravoe Me Pobedili.
> 
> What does that mean then?



It means you're a waste of time sunshine. Same goes for your political organisation of choice. 

*international working class association*

hahahaha


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## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

That hasn't answered my question, just as you have failed to answer other people's questions on another particular thread.

And I don't know why you refer to Stalinism, as I don't see what that has got to do with recognising, with also people who actually lived there, that the scope for consumer goods was better in comparison to other points in the history of the Soviet Union.  From Kruschev onwards.  How that is a defence of Stalinism I do not know.  Perhaps you could actually explain to me what Stalinism is, and then you and I can discuss it and it's relation to my comments on my recent travels and Russian people's experiences who lived under Brezhnev.

I somehow doubt it though.  Chuck Wilson has taken the piss, LLETSA has taken the piss, Sean has taken the piss, but you seem to take exception to me taking the piss out of you.  Oh well, nevermind.  I don't take it personally.  I just can't seem to fathom the ignorance shouting out at me from your supposedly witty outbursts.


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## soulman (Dec 11, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> That hasn't answered my question, just as you have failed to answer other people's questions on another particular thread.
> 
> And I don't know why you refer to Stalinism, as I don't see what that has got to do with recognising, with also people who actually lived there, that the scope for consumer goods was better in comparison to other points in the history of the Soviet Union.  From Kruschev onwards.  How that is a defence of Stalinism I do not know.  Perhaps you could actually explain to me what Stalinism is, and then you and I can discuss it and it's relation to my comments on my recent travels and Russian people's experiences who lived under Brezhnev.
> 
> I somehow doubt it though.  Chuck Wilson has taken the piss, LLETSA has taken the piss, Sean has taken the piss, but you seem to take exception to me taking the piss out of you.  Oh well, nevermind.  I don't take it personally.  I just can't seem to fathom the ignorance shouting out at me from your supposedly witty outbursts.




Course you don't. I don't expect you to get it.


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## soulman (Dec 11, 2005)

What makes you think Sean understands more about your life than you do?


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## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

Well, what is Stalinism?  You have alluded to me as being a Stalinist.  I am quite sure I am not, but nevertheless I would like you to explain to me why it is you have coloured me as such.  What is it that I am supposed to be in your eyes?


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## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

soulman said:
			
		

> What makes you think Sean understands more about your life than you do?



I really don't understand what you are getting at.


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## soulman (Dec 11, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> I really don't understand what you are getting at.



I know


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## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

See post 76.


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## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

* A tumblweed blows past*

*The sound of a distant church bell chimes across the almost silent desert*


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## LLETSA (Dec 11, 2005)

soulman said:
			
		

> It means you're a waste of time sunshine. Same goes for your political organisation of choice.
> 
> *international working class association*
> 
> hahahaha





Revealing your true colours, Soulman?


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## LLETSA (Dec 11, 2005)

soulman said:
			
		

> Congratulations. You are the thickest IWCA supporter/member I've ever encountered. Have a comedy stalinist medal for your efforts.
> 
> Wear it with pride -






There's nothing at all Stalinist about what Ryazan said. He was simply stating the kind of facts that can be found in more or less any credible account of life in the USSR during that period, facts that, in my experience, people who grew up there do confirm (people who are heavily critical of the USSR on the whole, that is.)


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 11, 2005)

soulman said:
			
		

> It means you're a waste of time sunshine. Same goes for your political organisation of choice.
> 
> *international working class association*
> 
> hahahaha





There's no such organisataion as the International Working Class Association.


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 11, 2005)

I have certainly not defended the Soviet Union, and those I have met in Russia have not either.  The only thing they talk about in any positive regard are Soviet-Present comparisons to be made in regards to the problems that now exist with social provision from the state.  No matter how inadequate it might have been during Soviet times, housing, hospital treatment etc was a little better.  A lack of alternative to one party dicatatorship for sure, but as far as social welfare and services that are supposed to be free are concerned, things seem to be moving in the opposite direction now.  Society is becoming more polarised.


----------



## soulman (Dec 11, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> There's no such organisataion as the International Working Class Association.



I know that too

LOL ...


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 12, 2005)

Soulman-  "They don't like it up em sir"

John Rambo- MUST-DESTROY-SOVIET-THREAT.


----------



## Herbert Read (Dec 12, 2005)

Im not abig fan of the IWCA but i dont think they are stalinist or that Ryazan is either,


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 12, 2005)

He was looking for any excuse to troll, although that has been the unsafe reason consciously placed at the front of my mind, to give a relatively concern-free explanation as to his behaviour on this thread.  That reason does have doubts regularly trying to prick it from off it's place, due to concerns that he really is ignorant about the Soviet Union; an ignorance that has depths as yet unreached by others I have come across who have been themselves of a pseudo-radical persuasion- and then try to use such ignorance to discredit and smeer others who bother to read books and have a decent grasp of the subject in question.  I am not an educated man, not in the formal sense, even with secondary schooling, but public libraries, and an inclination to discover and inform a young mind in making opinion, works wonders when it comes to the discussion of politics.  As well as working class experience. 

The thing is, no matter how many times the electoral tactic of the IWCA is attacked and sneered at, it is perhaps a sad kind of jealousy that is aroused when a, no doubt small, but significant organisation that has actually bothered to listen to working class people then places their concerns into some poltical context and action.  A jealousy seething from the point of frustration, from those that cling to some fantasy that any present social conditions can give birth to highly politicised, mass working class spontaniety. 

What the IWCA has to do with Stalinism I simply do not know.  Only soulman does, I suspect.


----------



## Herbert Read (Dec 12, 2005)

apart from crap experiments in socialism the iwca has nothing to do with stalinism, the closest to stalinism is the rumour that LLETSA has a a gammy hand and big tash, but it is only a rumour. stalin actually had success in getting in power, alas the iwca has not.

Showing films in cheadle and head of wheelie bins in oxford is not the most dangerous form of stalinism ever.

The IWCA is closer to vic and bobs councillor coxy and roy evans


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 12, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> apart from crap experiments in socialism the iwca has nothing to do with stalinism, the closest to stalinism is the rumour that LLETSA has a a gammy hand and big tash, but it is only a rumour.
> 
> Showing films in cheadle and head of wheelie bins in oxford is not the most dangerous form of stalinism ever.
> 
> The IWCA is closer to vic and bobs councillor coxy and roy evans





The only gammy hand on here is yours, Herbie.  You've strained it from too much pulling on your knob every time the IWCA is mentioned. 

Haven't you still to outline your own vision of the way forward, Herbert?

(Awaits some vaguely disturbed mumbling about co-operatives and social centres emerging from the ashes of society's ultimate collapse at the hands of nihilism. Oh, and the necessity of nestling up to the middle class occupants of 'the caring professions'.)


----------



## Herbert Read (Dec 12, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> The only gammy hand on here is yours, Herbie.  You've strained it from too much pulling on your knob every time the IWCA is mentioned.
> 
> Haven't you still to outline your own vision of the way forward, Herbert?
> 
> (Awaits some vaguely disturbed mumbling about co-operatives and social centres emerging from the ashes of society's ultimate collapse at the hands of nihilism. Oh, and the necessity of nestling up to the middle class occupants of 'the caring professions'.)



I really dont feel the need to outline a way forward, unlike your delusional self, with grandoise ideas of managing society on behalf of the class, i dont think we are quite there yet sonny jim.

Now before you pull out your paint by numbers guide to anarchy LLETSA i have always been critical of co-ops and social centres and have described them as tinkering with alternative lifestyles, living in a bubble a knid of anarchist reformism as devoid and pointless as the path you travel with the IWCA. 

You better get back to preparing the management (sorry i mean working class rule) of the estates, i hear chuck is building a barricade on the roundabout, stop checks for the middle class professionals both caring and not. 

Maybe you could stop the middle class district nurses and medics from getting in after all you and chuck have your first aid badge and you watched holby city last night plus your first year in sociolgy will really help. Dont forget random searches of youth workers we dont want the kids to have fun, they will be doing chin up in the barrcaks for the IWCA militia by morning.


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 12, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> I really dont feel the need to outline a way forward, unlike your delusional self, with grandoise ideas of managing society on behalf of the class, i dont think we are quite there yet sonny jim.
> 
> Now before you pull out your paint by numbers guide to anarchy LLETSA i have always been critical of co-ops and social centres and have described them as tinkering with alternative lifestyles, living in a bubble a knid of anarchist reformism as devoid and pointless as the path you travel with the IWCA.
> 
> ...






Here we go again.  'I really have no need....' The ultimate get-out clause, which means you never have to expose your lack of ideas to criticism.  (Luckily, your deranged twittering, of which we have yet another example here, reveals all that needs to be revealed.)

As far as I can recall, I have never uttered a single word about 'managing society on behalf of the class', and neither has anybody else on here.

On the other hand, you only have to look at your posting history to see that you have indeed muttered vaguely about co-ops and social centres in the past. (Maybe it was before you really lost your marbles and started gibbering about a never -defined nihilism.)

Your inability-or unwillingness-to explain what you mean is simply the subconscious acknowledgement that what you imagine you stand for will never come about.


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 12, 2005)

Where is Soulman anyway?


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 13, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Where is Soulman anyway?





Still scrubbing his hand, presumably.


----------



## Chuck Wilson (Dec 13, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> I really dont feel the need to outline a way forward, unlike your delusional self, with grandoise ideas of managing society on behalf of the class, i dont think we are quite there yet sonny jim.
> 
> Now before you pull out your paint by numbers guide to anarchy LLETSA i have always been critical of co-ops and social centres and have described them as tinkering with alternative lifestyles, living in a bubble a knid of anarchist reformism as devoid and pointless as the path you travel with the IWCA.
> 
> ...



And the point of your belief in politics is ????


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 13, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> Still scrubbing his hand, presumably.



The Black Hand?


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 13, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> The Black Hand?





See IWCA thread on Politics.


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 13, 2005)

Ah, I never knew he was Orvil the Duck.....


----------



## Herbert Read (Dec 13, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> Your inability-or unwillingness-to explain what you mean is simply the subconscious acknowledgement that what you imagine you stand for will never come about.



But of course LLETSA your beliefs will shine through in the end... i mean its bound to happen....its not as if your talking fantasy socialism after all

working calss rule in working calss areas.. its defo on the agenda.

Not once have i laid a blue print for the future out, this is my point there can be no blue print set aside for the future society, to do so would be arrogant, naive and delusional.

I dont believe in reform of the current situation, and i dont think we can build structures within the current framework to assist us in moving towards a better society. The only chance we have is the utter economic,social, political and cultural collapse of capatalism, any thing else is just talking reformist shite and beyond the ridiculous.


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 13, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> But of course LLETSA your beliefs will shine through in the end... i mean its bound to happen....its not as if your talking fantasy socialism after all
> 
> working calss rule in working calss areas.. its defo on the agenda.
> 
> Not once have i laid a blue print for the future out, this is my point there can be no blue print set aside for the future society, to do so would be arrogant,





And neither has anybody else.  Sigh.

Talking about blueprints means you have totally and utterly misunderstand even the slightest thing about the IWCA's approach.  

Yet again you burble senselessly about 'fantasy socialism' and the like, but it's nothing but straw men again.


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 13, 2005)

*"Waiting for the End of the World"*




			
				Herbert Read said:
			
		

> I dont believe in reform of the current situation, and i dont think we can build structures within the current framework to assist us in moving towards a better society. The only chance we have is the utter economic,social, political and cultural collapse of capatalism, any thing else is just talking reformist shite and beyond the ridiculous.





This makes no sense even on your own terms.  In the past you've stumbled about these boards (in the mistaken belief that you're actually strutting), with claims to being some kind of super-activist, and only recently you've volunteered to help FFF with his stickers in solidarity with the health workers in W. Yorks.  Surely it's all futile if the only thing that will make a difference is some kind of general collapse of the entire system?

It would be interesting to know exactly what you see happening in the event of such a collapse.


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 13, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> I dont believe in reform of the current situation, and i dont think we can build structures within the current framework to assist us in moving towards a better society. The only chance we have is the utter economic,social, political and cultural collapse of capatalism, any thing else is just talking reformist shite and beyond the ridiculous.




Nothing can be gained, even temporarily, to meet the immediate concerns of working class people.


So it's apathy then.


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 14, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> It would be interesting to know exactly what you see happening in the event of such a collapse.




Something akin to what goes no in a Mad Max movie.


----------



## Chuck Wilson (Dec 14, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> Something akin to what goes no in a Mad Max movie.



  I like that!


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 14, 2005)

Thank you.


----------



## Herbert Read (Dec 14, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> This makes no sense even on your own terms.  In the past you've stumbled about these boards (in the mistaken belief that you're actually strutting), with claims to being some kind of super-activist, and only recently you've volunteered to help FFF with his stickers in solidarity with the health workers in W. Yorks.  Surely it's all futile if the only thing that will make a difference is some kind of general collapse of the entire system?
> 
> It would be interesting to know exactly what you see happening in the event of such a collapse.



So because i dont believe any thing will work under the current framework i should not assist other anarchists at all. I never claimed to be a super activist i just have my fingers in a lot of pies. Nihilism does not mean you do nothing, it just means what you do is informed by an overall perspectiv.e

Well you have stated that you dont really think elections are important or the focus of real change, you still support the IWCA in this process.

Its called been pragmatic, having a nihilistic belief system does not mean you should not participate in political activity, its a fucking critique you moron.


----------



## Chuck Wilson (Dec 14, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> So because i dont believe any thing will work under the current framework i should not assist other anarchists at all. I never claimed to be a super activist i just have my fingers in a lot of pies. Nihilism does not mean you do nothing, it just means what you do is informed by an overall perspectiv.e
> 
> Well you have stated that you dont really think elections are important or the focus of real change, you still support the IWCA in this process.
> 
> Its called been pragmatic, having a nihilistic belief system does not mean you should not participate in political activity, its a fucking critique you moron.



Try as I may I am still not sure what the political motive is for you having these fingers in these pies. What are you trying to do?


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 14, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> So because i dont believe any thing will work under the current framework i should not assist other anarchists at all. I never claimed to be a super activist i just have my fingers in a lot of pies. Nihilism does not mean you do nothing, it just means what you do is informed by an overall perspectiv.e
> 
> Well you have stated that you dont really think elections are important or the focus of real change, you still support the IWCA in this process.
> 
> Its called been pragmatic, having a nihilistic belief system does not mean you should not participate in political activity, its a fucking critique you moron.



My understanding of Nihilism, apart from the activist forms it took in Tsarist Russia with the birth of the Narodniki is that it involves an appreciation of the falseness of objectivity, and that reality is nothing more than subjectivity based on people's experiences.  And nihilists apparently have an extreme scepticism towards the "truths" that are said to exist in explaining away society, life, morality etc.  And that  should reach as far as viewing their own nihilism in a sceptical fashion.  There is a lot more to it than "there is nothing".  

You criticise others, but are you willing to criticise your own conceptions of the right sort of political activity working class people should involve themselves with?


----------



## Herbert Read (Dec 14, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> My understanding of Nihilism, apart from the activist forms it took in Tsarist Russia with the birth of the Narodniki is that it involves an appreciation of the falseness of objectivity, and that reality is nothing more than subjectivity based on people's experiences.  And nihilists apparently have an extreme scepticism towards the "truths" that are said to exist in explaining away society, life, morality etc.  And that  should reach as far as viewing their own nihilism in a sceptical fashion.  There is a lot more to it than "there is nothing".
> 
> You criticise others, but are you willing to criticise your own conceptions of the right sort of political activity working class people should involve themselves with?



I think i am critical of all activity, including my own, offer no truths or plan, bow before no god, accept no authority, and believe that we can not reform the current system, only attempt to destroy it.


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 14, 2005)

And you rely on spontaniety after the old society crumbles?  How will you know when you get to after that point that what flourishes beyond will be better; due to the groundwork done by people of your ilk?

No activism along political lines has ever been made a widespread success without some organisation involved.  One of the ironies of Bolshevism in relation to it's more libertarian critics is that part of the conspiratorial ways adopted by the Bolsheviks came from the experience of the narodniks, or the more extreme sections of that movement, in a violently defiant sense against the Tsarist autocracy.  I am sure you are aware of Sergei Nechaev, the peasant nihilist who fucked around with and pissed off Bakunin?  His methods of a strict hierchial organisation, it could be said, mirror to a certain extent the later Bolshevik penchant for control of political activities and the use violence.  Nechaev wanted to bring death and destruction to the existing order.  He spoke and wrote, with a fiery tongue and pen, similar words written in your post I am replying to.  I am sure you have read Catechisms.....Although there is some controversy as to who actually came up with what that text contains.

Nihilism, or more accurately parts of it's later development in tactics of politcal activism among the poor and terrorism in Russia, to which you have to refer to in terms of it's use politically- was not the antithesis of the Leninism you loath so much, but helped to contribute towards it.

Think about that before you "go to the people".


----------



## Herbert Read (Dec 14, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> And you rely on spontaniety after the old society crumbles?  How will you know when you get to after that point that what flourishes beyond will be better; due to the groundwork done by people of your ilk?
> 
> No activism along political lines has ever been made a widespread success without some organisation involved.  One of the ironies of Bolshevism in relation to it's more libertarian critics is that part of the conspiratorial ways adopted by the Bolsheviks came from the experience of the narodniks, or the more extreme sections of that movement, in a violently defiant sense against the Tsarist autocracy.  I am sure you are aware of Sergei Nechaev, the peasant nihilist who fucked around with and pissed off Bakunin?  His methods of a strict hierchial organisation, it could be said, mirror to a certain extent the later Bolshevik penchant for control of political activities and the use violence.  Nechaev wanted to bring death and destruction to the existing order.  He spoke and wrote, with a fiery tongue and pen, similar words written in your post I am replying to.  I am sure you have read Catechisms.....Although there is some controversy as to who actually came up with what that text contains.
> 
> ...



Nechaev was not an anarchist or a nihilist, a chancer a fake and a damn right unsavoury character. His beliefs were jacobin and can be descibed as blanquist as far from nihilism and anarchy as is possible.

The fact that lenin espoused anarchist and nihilist ideas to acheive his own means has no relevance to me personally or my current application of (anti) politics within every day life. I dont really find russian history that interesting to tell you the truth, allthough i recognise its something you love, i find it quite dull.


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 14, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> I think i am critical of all activity, including my own, offer no truths or plan, bow before no god, accept no authority, and believe that we can not reform the current system, only attempt to destroy it.





Yeah but what happens then?

And are you going to continue with your drug counselling job after the total collapse of the system?


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 14, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> Its called been pragmatic, having a nihilistic belief system does not mean you should not participate in political activity, its a fucking critique you moron.





Yes, but what's the point in any political activity now if only a total collapse of society can usher in the anarchist utopia?


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 14, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> I think i am critical of all activity, including my own, offer no truths or plan, bow before no god, accept no authority, and believe that we can not reform the current system, only attempt to destroy it.





And once it's been destroyed will you adopt some kind of plan or will it all unfold spontaneously?


----------



## LLETSA (Dec 14, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> we can not reform the current system, only attempt to destroy it.





Incidentally, what are you doing at the moment in an attempt to destroy the current system, and is it working?


----------



## Chuck Wilson (Dec 14, 2005)

LLETSA said:
			
		

> Incidentally, what are you doing at the moment in an attempt to destroy the current system, and is it working?



Herbert is very busy posting on here during the day so it is what is going on at night in Hebden Bridge that is the litmus test. I have certaintly noticed its effects and I dare say Whitehall are on to it as we speak.


----------



## montevideo (Dec 14, 2005)




----------



## montevideo (Dec 14, 2005)




----------



## montevideo (Dec 14, 2005)




----------



## cats hammers (Dec 14, 2005)

Aren't you supposed to be offering unconditional support to the Australian rioters?


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 14, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> I dont really find russian history that interesting to tell you the truth, allthough i recognise its something you love, i find it quite dull.



Then how on earth can you not see Nihilism as being dull!  Russia is an important place historically for the use of such ideas politically!  And if you find it dull, then why do regularly jump to the inaccurate accusation of people whose views you do not agree with as being "Leninst"?  Now that is dull.


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 14, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> Nechaev was not an anarchist or a nihilist, a chancer a fake and a damn right unsavoury character. His beliefs were jacobin and can be descibed as blanquist as far from nihilism and anarchy as is possible.



I woudn't know about that. The People's Will had methods that were of a similar ilk to those of Nechaev and his earlier People's Retribution.  Conspiracy and violence.  Narodism was something that grew out of the nhilist, what is the word, ethos, but Nihilist ideas and adherence to them were still in effect for many Narodniki, through the movements evolution.


----------



## Chuck Wilson (Dec 15, 2005)

Pictures of the latest recruits to the TGWU or the rib cracking wing of the Wombles Monty?


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

jackwupton said:
			
		

> Aren't you supposed to be offering unconditional support to the Australian rioters?



show me examples of genuine 'class violence' & i'll support it. Naturally i don't mean the violence of your class.


----------



## cats hammers (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> show me examples of genuine 'class violence' & i'll support it. Naturally i don't mean the violence of your class.



Who are you to say genuine class violence / not-genuine class violence?


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

jackwupton said:
			
		

> Who are you to say genuine class violence / not-genuine class violence?



Who are you to say genuine class violence / not-genuine class violence?


----------



## cats hammers (Dec 15, 2005)

The political equivolent of 'I know you are, you said you are, but what am I', then.


----------



## kropotkin (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> show me examples of genuine 'class violence' & i'll support it. Naturally i don't mean the violence of your class.


 Don't really want to get involved, but what class would you say a paid professional 'activist' union organiser would be in?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2005)

jackwupton said:
			
		

> Who are you to say genuine class violence / not-genuine class violence?


from the tone of your posts, you clearly think there is a case to be made for the australian race riots being class violence, that is violence in support of class interests. i would be interested to see why you think that.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 15, 2005)

Pickman's model said:
			
		

> from the tone of your posts, you clearly think there is a case to be made for the australian race riots being class violence, that is violence in support of class interests. i would be interested to see why you think that.



he was parodying your with us or against us reasoning in the French Rioting thread you daft fuck.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 15, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> he was parodying your with us or against us reasoning in the French Rioting thread you daft fuck.


could you point me to the post you mean? or apologise for lying about me.


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

kropotkin said:
			
		

> Don't really want to get involved, but what class would you say a paid professional 'activist' union organiser would be in?



can be from any class. Met t&g organisers from all manner of class background, nationality & gender. It's a beautiful world out there.


----------



## catch (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> can be from any class. Met t&g organisers from all manner of class background, nationality & gender. It's a beautiful world out there.



So background overrides occupation as a determinant of class then?


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

exactly the same kind of people as i've met down at tony's cafe in fact. 'Local activists' come in all shapes & sizes too.


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

catch said:
			
		

> So background overrides occupation as a determinant of class then?



background, upbringing, education, expectations, experience are all determinants, whether any override any other is a job for the gameboy radicals to discuss amongst themselves.


----------



## Herbert Read (Dec 15, 2005)

kropotkin said:
			
		

> Don't really want to get involved, but what class would you say a paid professional 'activist' union organiser would be in?



middle class, managing the working class


----------



## catch (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> background, upbringing, education, expectations, experience are all determinants, whether any override any other is a job for the gameboy radicals to discuss amongst themselves.



expectations?


----------



## cats hammers (Dec 15, 2005)

Yea, if you expect anything more than living in a filthy hovel with a ketamine problem, then you're a middle class wanker.


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

catch said:
			
		

> expectations?



if you're fathers a lawyer for the labour party government you're not expected to work in a fish mongers?


----------



## IntoStella (Dec 15, 2005)

jackwupton said:
			
		

> Yea, if you expect anything more than living in a filthy hovel with a ketamine problem, then you're a middle class wanker.


How can a hovel have a ketamine problem?


----------



## revol68 (Dec 15, 2005)

come on lets be fair the wombles definition of a K problem is when they can't get hold of some.


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

alternatively if your _da_ is a bluff no nonsense tell it like it is kind of person you're not expected to play computer games for a living...


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)




----------



## revol68 (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> alternatively if your _da_ is a bluff no nonsense tell it like it is kind of person you're not expected to play computer games for a living...



my da has high apsirations for me, he hopes I can become properly middle class, he's bought me some white overalls,  big bag of K and some shite politics, he'll be so dissapointed it if I don't make it.


----------



## cats hammers (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> if you're fathers a lawyer for the labour party government you're not expected to work in a fish mongers?



I wish my da was a lawyer.


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

jackwupton said:
			
		

> I wish my da was a lawyer.



your father is...?


----------



## cats hammers (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> your father is...?



Ex-TU bureauract, actually.   

Don't worry tho Monte, you can still denounce me, he was well higher than you're going to be.  He got a car and everything.


----------



## Chuck Wilson (Dec 15, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> middle class, managing the working class



It is such a difficult line Herbert but are you really accusing Monty if he takes up the job as recruitment officer for the TGWU as becoming middle class?

What about those in the public health field like yourself advising drug abusers ? Is that not the subtle, and therefore more insiduous, manipulation of autonomous working class lifestyles?

What next- bus conductors ? are they the new world orders policing of genuine working class resistance to not paying for things?

Monty take the job , recruiting people to trade unions isn't  to me the work of the devil or international capital and £20k isn't going to buy you off. It will have its limitations so don't think its a vocation.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 15, 2005)

if monte just took the job as away of paying the rent and recognised the shortcomings of his job (as i'm sure alot of social workers have) then fair fucks, but the fact he thinks he will organise the workers is a tad worrying.


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

jackwupton said:
			
		

> Ex-TU bureauract, actually.
> 
> Don't worry tho Monte, you can still denounce me, he was well higher than you're going to be.  He got a car and everything.



'Bureaucrat' is such a vague term isn't it? 

What is he now? Still with with us?


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

Chuck Wilson said:
			
		

> Monty take the job , recruiting people to trade unions isn't  to me the work of the devil or international capital and £20k isn't going to buy you off. It will have its limitations so don't think its a vocation.



i'm touched mate, cheers.


----------



## Ryazan (Dec 15, 2005)

You are competing very well with Herbert Read in the "vague" stakes.


----------



## revol68 (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> 'Bureaucrat' is such a vague term isn't it?
> 
> What is he now? Still with with us?



monte for someone in the wombles to be giving out about peoples patters is a tad rich, no?


----------



## montevideo (Dec 15, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> You are competing very well with Herbert Read in the "vague" stakes.



says the russian princess.

Go, on remind us just how working class you are again, just in case we forgot from the last 37 times you've told us.


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## Ryazan (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> russian princess.


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## revol68 (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> says the russian princess.
> 
> Go, on remind us just how working class you are again, just in case we forgot from the last 37 times you've told us.



i know real proles get given gravy train jobs off their union official mates.


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## Ryazan (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> says the russian princess.



Who is the bitch in the relationship, you or Herbert?


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## cats hammers (Dec 15, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> 'Bureaucrat' is such a vague term isn't it?



Yea, he was General Secretary of the DUM.   



> What is he now? Still with with us?



He's a lawyer who works with labour councils to evict squatters from houses they want to sell.  While they shoot asylum seekers.


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## montevideo (Dec 16, 2005)

jackwupton said:
			
		

> Yea, he was General Secretary of the DUM.
> 
> 
> 
> He's a lawyer who works with labour councils to evict squatters from houses they want to sell.  While they shoot asylum seekers.



not telling then eh? Revealing in itself.


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## The Black Hand (Dec 16, 2005)

As ever I am with Monty etc but fucking hell, this thread, wot a load of bollocks. There's 3 factions Anarchists, Youngsters and IWCA and I think you'd all be better off doing something else than posting on these boards    (and that includes me. TTFN) You're all leeching off each other... But I know which leech I prefer


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## cats hammers (Dec 16, 2005)

montevideo said:
			
		

> not telling then eh? Revealing in itself.



Its really not though, is it?


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## Idris2002 (Dec 16, 2005)

Attica said:
			
		

> I think you'd all be better off doing something else than posting on these boards



That's what my ginger office mate always said to me.


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## revol68 (Dec 16, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> That's what my ginger office mate always said to me.



aye and he would have been better reading something decent instead or atleast bringing some critical faculties to bear on Negri.


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## Donna Ferentes (Dec 16, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> That's what my ginger office mate always said to me.


What, a cat?


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## Idris2002 (Dec 16, 2005)

revol68: Oh come on, that's just unfair. He has plenty of critical faculties, and he's only just started his research.

Donna: Yes, I share an office with a giant talking cat. Well, it's 5 feet on it's hindquarters. That's very big for a cat.


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## Donna Ferentes (Dec 16, 2005)

Bless.


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## Idris2002 (Dec 16, 2005)

Gesundheit.


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## revol68 (Dec 16, 2005)

Idris2002 said:
			
		

> revol68: Oh come on, that's just unfair. He has plenty of critical faculties, and he's only just started his research.
> 
> Donna: Yes, I share an office with a giant talking cat. Well, it's 5 feet on it's hindquarters. That's very big for a cat.



he doesn't have much in the way of critical faculties at all in my experiance, i've told him as much as well. He just seems to get all excited about the latest post post colonial structuralist queer theory book he's reading and spouts poorly reguritated passages, fuck man you should have seen him when he started reading the Frankfurt schools stuff, everything was part of the rational instrumental death machine.


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## Herbert Read (Dec 16, 2005)

.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2005)

revol68 said:
			
		

> he was parodying your *with us or against us reasoning in the French Rioting thread* you daft fuck.


still no link to where i'm supposed to have said that.

apology please, ryazan.


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## revol68 (Dec 16, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> we are both equal, unlike your economically disadvanatged girl fried from the east.
> 
> Love for sale.



herbert, as much as I have a dislike for some of Ryazan's politics I really hope that comment isn't as racist as it first appears?


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## Ryazan (Dec 16, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> we are both equal, unlike your economically disadvanatged girl fried from the east.
> 
> Love for sale.



Do you want to take that back or should I report your post?  Do you think all Slav women are visa whores, or just Russian women?  If you do feel a little bad about posting that insulting and crude stereotype, I don't think I am the one you should be apologising too.  But you better had edit it of explain yourself, because I won't tolerate that. 

Because like my self harm, which you have taken the piss out of to score points, and now this. *************************************


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## Ryazan (Dec 16, 2005)

I apologise if that gets me into trouble editor.


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## Herbert Read (Dec 19, 2005)

ill edit it if you want, so you are allowed to make some comedy homophobic remark about monte been my bitch, withi the implication that we are in a homosexual relationship..


but no one is allowed to make a comedy remark about your relationship.

It was you your self who stated in a post you bought her doc martins as she could not afford them, hence economoically disadvantaged, at no point have i mentioned any thing racist and care little if im banned.

no i was been a cunt please accept my humble apologies.

I apologise and will remove


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## blamblam (Dec 19, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> ill edit it if you want, so you are allowed to make some comedy homophobic remark about monte been my bitch, withi the implication that we are in a homosexual relationship..


The horror!


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## Ryazan (Dec 19, 2005)

Herbert Read said:
			
		

> ill edit it if you want, so you are allowed to make some comedy homophobic remark about monte been my bitch, withi the implication that we are in a homosexual relationship..
> 
> 
> but no one is allowed to make a comedy remark about your relationship.
> ...



My pop at you was meant in a light heart, in relation to the debate going on in this thread.  You, then take it too far by getting too personal.  I apologise too, if what I wrote was distasteful to you, but I did not mean in at as a bad slight.  It is just that there is a little thread war going on with LLETSA, myself, Chuck Wilson and Sean versus yourself, Soulman and Montevideo.  If you wanna take the piss, then do it out of me, at me, not about someone who isn't anything to do with what goes on here.  I think that is fair.

*spat over*


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## Herbert Read (Dec 20, 2005)

Ryazan said:
			
		

> My pop at you was meant in a light heart, in relation to the debate going on in this thread.  You, then take it too far by getting too personal.  I apologise too, if what I wrote was distasteful to you, but I did not mean in at as a bad slight.  It is just that there is a little thread war going on with LLETSA, myself, Chuck Wilson and Sean versus yourself, Soulman and Montevideo.  If you wanna take the piss, then do it out of me, at me, not about someone who isn't anything to do with what goes on here.  I think that is fair.
> 
> *spat over*



What war are you deluded.. 

It was meant as a joke, ill make future note not to make sex tourist jokes in your direction.

I have had to laeve urban for a better place where i roam free with no spats, me and chuck, lletsa and hibee even joke together and have fun!


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