# Torchwood: Miracle Day



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 27, 2011)

so does anyone still care?

torchwood... is kinda shit.  there are a few nice  episodes  and  the  children of earth   series  wasn't bad  but  i'm frankly kinda sick of it.

the  joint starz production  does look interesting  with it's international scope  and  more of an action focus  but i'm not  sure if that  can really  save the series.

perhaps  barrowman  doing gay scifi  action hero   with big budget  might  be  cool in it's own way   but more and  more  i  want  to   divorce this from the   doctor who universe


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 27, 2011)

Harmless fun. Barrowman is fairly awful most of the time but you put up with him because he's on the same show as Eve Myles.


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## ddraig (Jun 27, 2011)

avnt they fucked off to the us for this? 
grumble bastards if so


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## andy2002 (Jun 27, 2011)

Children Of Earth was terrific - the other two series were so bad they were, er, just plain bad actually. Looking forward to Miracle Day - whenever the BBC are going to get round to showing it...


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## DotCommunist (Jun 27, 2011)

All shit other than CofE, if this can live up to that then great. If it is just who with pointless sexuality bolted on rather than part off then it can taske the rape-spray and go back to cardiff


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 27, 2011)

kiss kiss bang bang  was  a good episode




if only   for the  over the topness

plus  less of the   other charactors


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## ericjarvis (Jun 28, 2011)

Torchwood is silly.

Personally I'm all in favour of silly. Especially silly given the sort of production budget usually reserved for boringly worthy.


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## stuff_it (Jun 28, 2011)

I think it's nice that the actors still have jobs...

And yes, I'd far rather see silly and with explosions, fighting, and running about than something serious and low budget.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jun 28, 2011)

The campiness is Torchwood's best feature.


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## strung out (Jun 28, 2011)

children of earth was fantastic. the rest i've not really paid much attention too tbh, but if this is as good as CofE, then i'll take a look


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## captainmission (Jun 28, 2011)

but children of earth was good in spite of it being torchwood, not because of it


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## strung out (Jun 28, 2011)

what a ludicrous comment. it was torchwood and it was good. therefore torchwood has the potential to be (and indeed has been) good.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 28, 2011)

i think it's a reasonable comment.  if you asked  what  style defined  torchwood  and  then asked if that style  was  a major influence on  why  children of men was  good  the answer you would  probably get is no.

it's not  a comment  that torchwood  can never be  good   just that   the things that make torchwood what it is are not usually associated with greatness.  

for example  the cast are  for the most part dreary or really fucking unlikeable.  the tone is just  fucking wierd. it would  be funny if it wasn't  so fucking dark  but  the  darkness comes across as    trying too fucking hard  most of the time.    in fact  most of torchwood  would be described as tryinjg too fucking hard.   barrowman works in it  because  he  has  made  turning it up to 11 his signature role   but  for  everyone else  your not sure if they  know they are in a drama or a comedy.

and i don't HATE the show.  

_*helicopter shot of jack standing on the top of a random tall building*_


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## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2011)

format helped with CofE. five 40 minute jobbies (was it 60 mins?) in a five day run allowed them to maintain the story/tension etc.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 28, 2011)

also they had gotten rid of a lot of the less desirable  secondary characters   and  had  actually built   up a reasonable character in ianto   making it  actually  kinda matter  when  he  dies   (because no one really gave a shit about toshiko or owen)


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## strung out (Jun 28, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i think it's a reasonable comment.  if you asked  what  style defined  torchwood  and  then asked if that style  was  a major influence on  why  children of men was  good  the answer you would  probably get is no.
> 
> it's not  a comment  that torchwood  can never be  good   just that   the things that make torchwood what it is are not usually associated with greatness.
> 
> ...


 
why not view CofE as being (hopefully) the start of an improvement in the show though? i agree with the first two series being pretty dire (from the little i saw), but to suggest that CofE is good in spite of being Torchwood just seems a bit too grudging. if the show carries on from where it left off in CofE, then i'll be very happy, and i'd rather wait to see whether the improvement in quality continues, than have a pop based on the dubious quality of stories made four or five years ago.


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## captainmission (Jun 28, 2011)

strung out said:


> what a ludicrous comment. it was torchwood and it was good. therefore torchwood has the potential to be (and indeed has been) good.



children of eath was great, but it had its roots in quatremass/apocolypic 70's british sci-fi/creepy bbc kids tv. Not the usual camp adoloscent fare the average torchwood episode. The torchwood characters are jarringly thrown in there with there over the top antics, and it more or less held togther. But i think it would have worked better as a stand alone sci-fi series rather a torchwood thing. But that said i'd be quite happy just watching 5 hours of peter capaldi being a bastard.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 28, 2011)

i hope  torch wood  is  now diffrent and  miricle dat  does look a whole lot  better than the old stuff   but  if   we are talking  about th e idea of  torchwood as a series  at the moment  the  bad  still outweighs the good.

it  also means we  might  have to  rethink what  we  mean  by  torchwood.   CoE  took a radical  departure from an existing format      therefore  what  the new format will be like  is  still unknown

also with the  death  of  most of the characters  the  departure   of the series from a specific location  and  threadt    we have to ask    what  is  torchwood anyway?

for me  it  basically the jack  show    as  i couldn't give a fuck  about  the woman and her bloke


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## ginger_syn (Jun 29, 2011)

I'm looking fowards to new torchwood and ok the first series was a bit duff but it kept getting better. And rhys is class


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## rollinder (Jun 29, 2011)

There's going to be two different versions according to the preview/publicity feature in the new Doctor Who magazine - US version is going to be more explicit but shorter & the BBC version (when they get round to showing it) will be censored but will have longer episodes with extra scenes.


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## Bungle73 (Jun 29, 2011)

rollinder said:


> There's going to be two different versions according to the preview/publicity feature in the new Doctor Who magazine - US version is going to be more explicit but shorter & the BBC version (when they get round to showing it) will be censored but will have longer episodes with extra scenes.


 
Why don't they just show the same thing in both countries....?


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## rollinder (Jun 29, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Why don't they just show the same thing in both countries....?


 
According to the article Starz want something more adult/explicit (& are showing it as a programme for adults in it's own right not as a spin-off) but for a shorter timeslot while the bbc want less gay(& straight) sex (eta: oh and violence related to attempts to change the spoiler) as they're worried about kiddy Doctor Who fans watching it. Wonder which version'll end up on the eventual dvd/blu-ray.

Been avoiding information/spoilers until recentlly - it's sounds like it's going to be good, maybe not up to Children Of Earth levels.


Spoiler: basic plot spoiler



everybody on Earth becomes like Captain Jack - nobody can die, and the population level becomes untenable


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## strung out (Jun 29, 2011)

different audiences apparently. in the uk, torchwood (although it wasn't intended initially) has got a larger kids fanbase which necessitates excluding some of the ruder bits. as RTD said, it won't matter too much as the extra scenes will all be up on youtube within days anyway. i don't think it's ideal personally, but i can kind of see why they've done it.


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## PlaidDragon (Jun 30, 2011)

Torchwood is great, CoE was great, Miracle Day will be great. That is all.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 30, 2011)

i think also there is  a product placement issue.


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## Pseudopsycho (Jun 30, 2011)

rollinder said:


> According to the article Starz want something more adult/explicit (& are showing it as a programme for adults in it's own right not as a spin-off) but for a shorter timeslot while the bbc want less gay(& straight) sex...


 


Shippou-Sensei said:


> i think also there is  a product placement issue.



KY and Durex?

CofE (bloody RTD and his blatant obsession with religion) was good so will be watching miracle day. Maybe Owen has become the new Death and has fucked off to nob emo/goths. Bit like Reaper Man


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## dylanredefined (Jun 30, 2011)

The only problem with CofE was how mankind basically became a bunch idiotic cowards when faced with those aliens.Where as in the same universe the daleks and everyone else had regularly been turning up to give the earth a going over.So to them instead of being the end of the world its mearly a tuesday!


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## Divisive Cotton (Jun 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> n the uk, torchwood (although it wasn't intended initially) has got a larger kids fanbase which necessitates excluding some of the ruder bits. .



I thought last time it was shown after the 9 o'clock watershed?


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## strung out (Jun 30, 2011)

yeah it was, but a lot of kids still watch it though. i wouldn't have cut any of it, but i can (sort of) see their reasoning for it. starz want to make an adult show, whereas the bbc want something that has adult themes which kids can watch too.


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## Bungle73 (Jun 30, 2011)

What's you guys' opinions on this?  I was reading the Wikipedia entry and it claims the CofE series was shown in a "graveyard slot". Apparently this is what RTD claims. As far as I'm concerned 9pm on the BBC's main channel is about as far away from a "graveyard slot" as you can get!  In fact seeing as a whole week was dedicated to it I'd say it got special treatment.


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## strung out (Jun 30, 2011)

kind of. weeknights in the summer is nowhere near as good as weekends in spring/autumn, but i'd agree that 9pm on a main channel isn't _that_ bad a slot. graveyard is a bit strong tbh.


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## joustmaster (Jul 9, 2011)

this was on last night, in the usa. Torrents are up


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 9, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> What's you guys' opinions on this?  I was reading the Wikipedia entry and it claims the CofE series was shown in a "graveyard slot". Apparently this is what RTD claims. As far as I'm concerned 9pm on the BBC's main channel is about as far away from a "graveyard slot" as you can get!  In fact seeing as a whole week was dedicated to it I'd say it got special treatment.


 
It would be interesting to know what slot he'd have liked. Because I daresay most showrunners would sell both their eyeballs for a whole week in that particuar graveyard.


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## ginger_syn (Jul 10, 2011)

definitely worth watching,was unable to wait until thursday  although will have to see how the series develops before getting over exited.


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## Frankie Jack (Jul 10, 2011)

ginger_syn said:


> definitely worth watching,was unable to wait until thursday  <snip>.


 
Oh yes..


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## Helen Back (Jul 10, 2011)

Not bad. A bit slow but this is just ep.1 so should pick up over a few more eps. No explanation about how Jack came back from space though unless I missed it. My other half couldn't watch the bit with the blown apart guy. Ickyyyy!


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## maldwyn (Jul 10, 2011)

It's hard to give an opinion without drifting into spoiler territory, so I'll wait a week.

Will I watch episode 2? yeah but I'll probably wait until it's on iplayer


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## Termite Man (Jul 10, 2011)

strung out said:


> CofE .



can it not be called that . I keep getting confused about what the Church of England has to do with torchwood.

I'm starting to think I missed out on something with Children... Torchwood was just a bit crap so I didn't bother with it. Might have to give this new one a go because the trailer made it look good.


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## greenfield (Jul 10, 2011)

I hated it. Too American - I felt that it's now an American series, with the BBC in the backseat.


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## strung out (Jul 10, 2011)

Helen Back said:


> .


 
spoiler tags please. i know it's not much, but i prefer to not know anything when i'm watching it!


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## joustmaster (Jul 11, 2011)

it will be interesting to see how different the english cut will be


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## captainmission (Jul 11, 2011)

i presume the cringeworthy bit where they explain what wales is to americans will be gone (its the new jersey of england apparently)


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 11, 2011)

Never saw that children of the corn one but downloaded this out of curiosity. 
SO far Torchwood has been nothing short of utter bollocks.


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## joustmaster (Jul 11, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Never saw that children of the corn one but downloaded this out of curiosity.
> SO far Torchwood has been nothing short of utter bollocks.


Good old AS.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 11, 2011)

Hummm. 
Not as bad as what has been before. 
Some terrible lines like 
"who are you guys"
"We're Torchwood" Ugh, as if they are like amazing badarses or something.


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## strung out (Jul 11, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Hummm.
> Not as bad as what has been before.


 
that's high praise from you


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 11, 2011)

strung out said:


> that's high praise from you


Well it was unbelievably  shit in almost every way before hand so it's not saying that much. At least this one has an interesting idea and I am curious to see how it pans out.


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## strung out (Jul 14, 2011)

wow! really enjoyed that 

looking forward to the rest of the series now, til doctor who comes back.


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## Helen Back (Jul 14, 2011)

Any differences?


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## strung out (Jul 14, 2011)

my brother told me there weren't, but i didn't watch the US version so i can't confirm


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## Bungle73 (Jul 14, 2011)

I guessed what was going to happen when they cut the head off!


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## Nine Bob Note (Jul 14, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I guessed what was going to happen when they cut the head off!


 
And so the Toclafane were born. All their own fault.


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## madzone (Jul 15, 2011)

Loved it.


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## joustmaster (Jul 15, 2011)

was it much different to the american one? I would imagine the first episode would both be long and cut similar..


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## Nine Bob Note (Jul 15, 2011)

That episode was the same, it's all the shagging that was previewed that is to be excised. Personally, I can live without the sight of Cap'n Jack's cock, but I still object to an adult programme effectively being censored incase anyone is letting the kiddiewinks watch.


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## gsv (Jul 16, 2011)

Particularly since it's the adults paying for the fucker. Or for no fucker in this case.

GS(v)


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## RubyBlue (Jul 16, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> was it much different to the american one? I would imagine the first episode would both be long and cut similar..


 
I haven't seen either yet - the UK one is on my hard drive and I'm downloading the US version - which is the best?  Was it as good (so far) as CofE? (Which I loved - I'm a die hard Torchwood fan.)


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## 8den (Jul 16, 2011)

It was shitter than deep fried shit sandwich



Spoiler: for



That bit with the helicopter was so well shit.


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## London_Calling (Jul 17, 2011)

The only good idea in it is the female-mother-Welsh-James Bond thing, but they don't just labour it, they work it to death and back.

tbf, Barrowman does a great job as well, in a Freddie Mercury kind of way.


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## joustmaster (Jul 17, 2011)

Episode 2 was slow


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## ginger_syn (Jul 19, 2011)

I thought it was a better episode for the slower pace, It's keeping me interested but the real test will be if I'm still there by episode 6. I'm hopefully optimistic about it


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## Termite Man (Jul 19, 2011)

I thought it was ok when it didn't have any of the normal torchwood characters in it. As soon as they turned up it went shit.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 19, 2011)

Is Claire from Six Feet Under in it?


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## QueenOfGoths (Jul 20, 2011)

Thought it was okay - a few plot holes but a decent starter and I like the concept.


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## scifisam (Jul 20, 2011)

I enjoyed the first episode a lot - looks like they're really going to follow through with how horrific the scenario would really be, just like they did with CoE. 

The 'different versions' thing confuses me, especially when they say some stuff'll be cut out for British consumption. We generally allow more sex and swearing than the yanks do, and Torchwood has had loads of both before.


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## ddraig (Jul 20, 2011)

are they not saying that a/some gay scenes got cut for the british version?

e2a believe it or not, someone said to me the other day "oh i didn't realise Eve Miles was in Torchwood!"


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## London_Calling (Jul 20, 2011)

Yep, cut any GAY! scenes out of the UK version and leave them in for the liberal, no problems with that at all  Americans.


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## Stigmata (Jul 20, 2011)

I suspect it's the sexual content in general that they're cutting, rather than specifically the gay stuff. Still it seems a bit silly.


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## Nine Bob Note (Jul 20, 2011)

Yes, all the shagging is being cut, regardless of the genders of those involved.

Come on, people, this is 21st century Britain, you can't expect to see make-believe sex after 9pm in a show that is, and always has been, marketed as a very sexual adult programme. Apparently, the time that would have been taken up with this filth is being filled with another live autopsy.


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## Bungle73 (Jul 20, 2011)

Soooo......we mustn't let the little kiddies see a couple of consenting adults getting it on, but it's ok for them to see someone's mangled body who's just been caught in a explosion, who's still alive, which another character proceeds to cut the head off, and see another character getting impaled through the chest by a bunch of metal rods?


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## London_Calling (Jul 20, 2011)

Anyone got a link supporting that assertion becasue it's bonkers to think the US is more liberal on sex that the UK?

Fwiw, I thought what was cut was stuff like Captain Jack saying 'I love this Nissan whatever' as he gets in a car - various  lunatic product placement.


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## Nine Bob Note (Jul 20, 2011)

Starz is a pay-for channel, unlike the Beeb which must be run in a manner acceptable to the Daily Mail on behalf of the silent majority of licence-fee-payers.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 21, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Anyone got a link supporting that assertion becasue it's bonkers to think the US is more liberal on sex that the UK?


 
Easier to legally buy hard-core porn in the US (possibly depending on the state) than here, at least until the internet made that all irrelevant.


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## stuff_it (Jul 21, 2011)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Starz is a pay-for channel, unlike the Beeb which must be run in a manner acceptable to the Daily Mail on behalf of the silent majority of licence-fee-payers.


 
Yes, but tbf even though Queer as Folk wasn't on the Beeb, that was quite some time ago....


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## janeb (Jul 21, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> Is Claire from Six Feet Under in it?


 
Yes, she is. And a woman who was in Dollhouse


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## strung out (Jul 21, 2011)

average episode tonight i thought. bit too hammy in places, which i thought was generally avoided last week.


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## London_Calling (Jul 21, 2011)

The few bits I saw (scenes on the plane) it seemed to verge on panto... may look at it on the iPlayer...


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 22, 2011)

oh shit it's dennis nedry


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## Balbi (Jul 22, 2011)

uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word uh uh uh, you didn't say the magic word


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## madzone (Jul 22, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> I suspect it's the sexual content in general that they're cutting, rather than specifically the gay stuff. Still it seems a bit silly.


 
Thank fuck for that. Why does everything have to have sex in it?


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## joustmaster (Jul 22, 2011)

Both episodes seem to be the same length as the american ones so far. 
Any one got a link about the editing, or have we just invented it?


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## belboid (Jul 22, 2011)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Come on, people, this is 21st century Britain, you can't expect to see make-believe sex after 9pm in a show that is, and always has been, marketed as a very sexual adult programme.


 
We should just be bloody grateful I reckon. The 'sex' scenes in the earlier series were all absolutely fucking awful.  Without exception. Badly done and vomit inducing.  Especially if they involved Burn Gorman.  Not just when he was being a rapist, but when he supposedly shagged that flyer woman. Far scarier than anything in Doctor Who ever was.


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## Iguana (Jul 22, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> Both episodes seem to be the same length as the american ones so far.
> Any one got a link about the editing, or have we just invented it?


 
http://io9.com/5815273/both-the-us-and-uk-versions-of-torchwood-will-have-different-extra-scenes


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## mentalchik (Jul 22, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> oh shit it's dennis nedry



*wonders how many households said this in chorus*


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## Pseudopsycho (Jul 22, 2011)

mentalchik said:


> *wonders how many households said this in chorus*


 
 we did!


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## Spymaster (Jul 22, 2011)

This is shit.

I've given it two episodes based on rave reviews, but it's a pile of old poorly acted wank. 

People who like it owe me 120 minutes of life.


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## Nine Bob Note (Jul 23, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> oh shit it's dennis nedry


 
Otherwise known as Officer Don. Cooooooool


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## PlaidDragon (Jul 23, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> This is shit.
> 
> I've given it two episodes based on rave reviews, but it's a pile of old poorly acted wank.
> 
> People who like it owe me 120 minutes of life.


 
Hah. You'll never get them back. Joke's on you for not liking good TV.


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## ginger_syn (Jul 23, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> People who like it owe me 120 minutes of life.


suck it up and move on with whats left of your life.


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## Augie March (Jul 23, 2011)

I just read that the following people are appearing in future episodes:

















Sci-fi convention casting.


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## madzone (Jul 23, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> This is shit.
> 
> I've given it two episodes based on rave reviews, but it's a pile of old poorly acted wank.
> 
> People who like it owe me 120 minutes of life.



I really like it.

I'll give you 90 minutes back though, not 120 cos they've been used.


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## Termite Man (Jul 23, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> . Joke's on you for not liking good TV.



if you think Torchwood is good TV you have very low standards.


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## joustmaster (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm glad the BBC plan to edit out the sex scenes.The ones in episode 3 are cringingly awful


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## QueenOfGoths (Jul 23, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> oh shit it's dennis nedry



And Newman!

Just watched the second episode, okay, better than the first. Not great but enjoyable enough


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## madzone (Jul 23, 2011)

That Welsh woman really fucking annoys me though.


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## maldwyn (Jul 23, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> I'm glad the BBC plan to edit out the sex scenes.The ones in episode 3 are cringingly awful


I couldn't believe how awful it was.

I'm getting tired of the brit/american lingo jokes.

The american actors are outshining the brits.


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## stuff_it (Jul 23, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> I couldn't believe how awful it was.
> 
> I'm getting tired of the brit/american lingo jokes.
> 
> The american actors are outshining the brits.



Yes the sex scenes were truly awful, the UK is lucky to have had them taken out, *you* may hate the US/Brit speech jokes but I'm sure the Americans will like them ('Gee, say something in English honey'   :shudder: ), and I don't know about anyone else but the plot is labouring the 'welsh female chuck norris' thing a bit much.

I'm still rather enjoying it though.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 24, 2011)

yeah  english lingo jokes  are  so funking dumb

and  yeah  pointless sex scene

the whole  pharma   angle  is  diffrent in a way


plus  don't  let jazz watch this ever


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## joustmaster (Jul 24, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> yeah  english lingo jokes  are  so funking dumb
> 
> and  yeah  pointless sex scene
> 
> ...


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## ddraig (Jul 26, 2011)

and leave our Gwen/Eve alone! 
she is lush


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## stuff_it (Jul 26, 2011)

ddraig said:


> and leave our Gwen/Eve alone!
> she is lush


 
Her character _is_ heading into MILF Tank Girl territory though.


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## ddraig (Jul 26, 2011)

oh yes, no doubt
it is corny as fuck and cringey in a lot of places


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## strung out (Jul 28, 2011)

hmmm, i want to like it, but there's something nagging away that annoys me in each episode. also, i thought the impaled joke was just a bit too crude.


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## dylanredefined (Jul 28, 2011)

The put down made me lol though.


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## Bungle73 (Jul 28, 2011)

strung out said:


> hmmm, i want to like it, but there's something nagging away that annoys me in each episode. also, i thought the impaled joke was just a bit too crude.


I thought that was funny. 

I like it, but I think they're laying on the British/American stuff a bit too thickly.


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## strung out (Jul 28, 2011)

what was the put down? i think i missed it from cringing too much


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## big eejit (Jul 28, 2011)

Not as good as the first ep. Interesting development of the paedo-christ theme tho.


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## strung out (Jul 28, 2011)

it was much better than last week, and i did enjoy it, but there are cringey moments galore and it does take away from my overall enjoyment.


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## Termite Man (Jul 29, 2011)

strung out said:


> it was much better than last week, and i did enjoy it, but there are cringey moments galore and it does take away from my overall enjoyment.


 
I agree with this. It seems like they are going for the serious american sci fi drama thing then sticking in the slightly camp torchwood charaterisation. It just doesn't seem to work .


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 29, 2011)

I missed it last week but seemed to have missed nothing. 
It's very slow, all we really got this week was 'drug company' 
It's just a few set pieces linked together with a couple of throwaway lines. 
They sit in their 'hideaway' and babble about crap, then suddenly get down to work.
"oh I see a paper trail it must be covering something up. yep it's covering up this warehouse"
"Ok lets go to the warehouse"
*at the warehouse*
"Its full of drugs"
*on the way home*
"Oh I'm gay and there is a gay bar so I'm going to go in and be all gay in the name of character development"


----------



## Ceej (Jul 29, 2011)

I like it, in a comic-book sort of way. It's a bit groanworthy in places, but fun, and I love Captain Jack! 
(Can't stand John B without the hero coat though, overtanned, over-toothed, over-cheesed and over here.)


----------



## porno thieving gypsy (Jul 29, 2011)

ddraig said:


> oh yes, no doubt, it is corny as fuck and cringey in a lot of places



This but still watchable for siome reason


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 29, 2011)

Simone reason?


----------



## dylanredefined (Jul 29, 2011)

strung out said:


> what was the put down? i think i missed it from cringing too much


 
  After be accussed of not liking Gay joke the American replies 
 "Not got a problem with gays I do have a problem of a 40 year old acting like he is in his 20s"
   Well I found it funny.


----------



## Griff (Jul 29, 2011)

Gave up on it after 45 minutes, got bored to death with it.


----------



## strung out (Jul 29, 2011)

i think this is going to turn out to be 4 episodes too long for the series. the basic storyline is decent enough, but it seems like there's a lot of padding, meaning you just get inane crap for the majority of some episodes.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 29, 2011)

strung out said:


> i think this is going to turn out to be 4 episodes too long for the series. the basic storyline is decent enough, but it seems like there's a lot of padding, meaning you just get inane crap for the majority of some episodes.


 
Yup.  They should have stuck with the 5 episodes over one week format.  No filler and the pace was kept up nicely.  This is way too slow and full of pointless scenes that add nothing to the story.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 29, 2011)

Surely the idea is to ensure as much exposure to the american audience as possible.  

I've not watched TW before but I'm watching this because CofE was really well received.   I don't mind the character introduction/development lines although they mostly seem a bit comic-book.   That's partly the nature of the show though.


----------



## Pingu (Jul 31, 2011)

the word that springs to mind for me is "compromise"..

i can almost see the writing sessions with discussions about what direction to take on plot, character progression etc... no let do this... no this...ok lets compromise on...


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> i think this is going to turn out to be 4 episodes too long for the series. the basic storyline is decent enough, but it seems like there's a lot of padding, meaning you just get inane crap for the majority of some episodes.



Agree with you - I like the concept but the pace is too slow with not really enough happening of interest in each episode. Will still watch it though!


----------



## strung out (Aug 4, 2011)

better tonight.


----------



## Santino (Aug 4, 2011)

I thought the bad guys might turn out to be The Silence for a while.


----------



## 8115 (Aug 4, 2011)

It's a bit slow-moving, feels like the whole series would have been better as one episode.


----------



## strung out (Aug 4, 2011)

8115 said:


> It's a bit slow-moving, feels like the whole series would have been better as one episode.


 
i think it can be sustained as a series, just a much shorter one. 5 or 6 episodes, rather than 10.


----------



## strung out (Aug 4, 2011)

as a wise man just pointed out to me, since when was captain jack gay?


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 4, 2011)

8115 said:


> It's a bit slow-moving, feels like the whole series would have been better as one episode.


Not really.


strung out said:


> as a wise man just pointed out to me, since when was captain jack gay?


Um, since the character was first created. Although he's bisexual actually.


----------



## strung out (Aug 4, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Um, since the character was first created. Although he's bisexual actually.


 
so bisexual = gay now?


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 4, 2011)

strung out said:


> so bisexual = gay now?


Jack will go with anyone, male or female. It's always been the case?  If you've ever watched TW before I'm not sure why you're even questioning it?


----------



## strung out (Aug 4, 2011)

yes, i know that. which is why i'm questioning the fact that he's being portrayed as gay in Miracle Day, when it was established thousands of years ago (in jack's past) that he'll shag anything, male, female, alien, anything with a postcode etc.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 4, 2011)

strung out said:


> yes, i know that. which is why i'm questioning the fact that he's being portrayed as gay in Miracle Day, when it was established thousands of years ago (in jack's past) that he'll shag anything, male, female, alien, anything with a postcode etc.


 
I don't think they've not said anything about him not liking women have they?


----------



## strung out (Aug 4, 2011)

it seems to be the way it's being played though...



> Barrowman also confirmed that the omnisexual Jack only has sex with men in new ten-part series Miracle Day.
> 
> "People who watch this series will think he's completely gay," he explained. "It was completely [showrunner] Russell [T Davies]'s choice to do that, to make an impact, to stir things up a bit. That's more so for the States than [the UK]."


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 4, 2011)

strung out said:


> as a wise man just pointed out to me, since when was captain jack gay?


 
He's "pansexual" according to the Doctor, i.e. he'll sleep with anything.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 4, 2011)

IIRC at least a few minutes of Miracle Day's first episode were spent with Jack on the phone to Gwen in a way which implied a bit more than just a working relationship.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 5, 2011)

I just saw that there is supposed to be 10 hour long episodes of this crap. I hope the revelation next week is a good one. This is so slow, and the tiny group of inept emotional bickering idiots hardly feels like an Impossible Mission team.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 5, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> ... the tiny group of inept emotional bickering idiots hardly feels like an Impossible Mission team.


 
I think that's part of the revelation- that they really don't know what they're doing (as if we didn't know  ). At least that was strongly suggested in the "next time" preview.

Anyway, has anybody got any idea who these "families" are and why they're rising?


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 5, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> I think that's part of the revelation- that they really don't know what they're doing (as if we didn't know  ). At least that was strongly suggested in the "next time" preview.
> 
> Anyway, has anybody got any idea who these "families" are and why they're rising?



there was 'the family' in a DW episode (the one where the Doctor wiped his mind to hide and was a school teacher called John Smith (which was also the false name that Jack gave to the bloke who designed the security for the server room)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_of_Blood


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 5, 2011)

I remember them (those episodes make the missus cry, bless) and the Doctor didn't kill them did he, just fucked 'em royally...


----------



## Greebo (Aug 5, 2011)

Oh yes, the Slytheen, and there was another family with a different name but of the same species too.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Aug 7, 2011)

I am enjoying the show but it is slow. Bill Pullman is rather good though


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2011)

I like how they had to laboriously work out what the hidden sections of a Camp might be for. It was always ovens you dicks


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 7, 2011)

hey don't spoil the fun


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 7, 2011)

that did take them a  stupidly long time to work out

this series  does seem to be a tad stretched out


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 7, 2011)

Five episodes in and I've lost the plot - well, was there one? But then again I'm easily distracted by Jack's carefully tousled hair*.*


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> that did take them a stupidly long time to work out
> 
> this series does seem to be a tad stretched out


 
I also had to laugh at gwens boyfriend last week 'yeah they're taking him to some sort of camp!' all cheerfull like.

as if alarm bells wouldn't be ringing when they start mentioning camps for the sick


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 7, 2011)

yeah.. overflow camp... FFS   nobody would name them that.

it would be  emergency treatment  centre  or some such

oh no the place they call a camp that they take all the less abled people is doing bad things!!

no fucking shit!

this  doesn't half seem like a rehash of    CoE


----------



## feyr (Aug 7, 2011)

complete with Gwen leaving a video message apologogising and saying there is no hope.

i like CoE, and i am trying to like miracle day but its just soooooo slow! i keep hoping the next episode will be better


----------



## Bassism (Aug 7, 2011)

8115 said:


> It's a bit slow-moving, feels like the whole series would have been better as one episode.


i agree


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 7, 2011)

CoE was far more ...  condensed.  and  in torchwood that is  kinda a good thing


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 7, 2011)

not sure about one episode

there is enough here for a couple of episodes  but    not as many as there have been so far.      we havn't really   got to end game yet  and thats worrying.    last episode  was  about 3/4 filler


----------



## Bassism (Aug 7, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> not sure about one episode
> 
> there is enough here for a couple of episodes but not as many as there have been so far. we havn't really got to end game yet and thats worrying. last episode was about 3/4 filler


ye maybe not one but they are fucking milking it a bit


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 7, 2011)

five episodes broadcast over a monday-friday would have been better. It worked for CofE


----------



## strung out (Aug 7, 2011)

are people talking about episodes which haven't been broadcast in the uk yet?


----------



## feyr (Aug 8, 2011)

i think the 5 episodes over a week format worked really well for torchwood. none of the "cliff hangers" from this series have been strong enough to keep interest for 7 days. when it was only 24 hours between episodes it was much easier to keep enthusiasam for the storyline. i happily rewatched all the CoE episodes in one go a few months after they had been broadcast and they kept my interest throughout. with miracle day , there is so much filler that i cant imagine wanting to be bothered to rewatch them, even though by a thur eve i have forgotten most of what happened in the previous episode


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 8, 2011)

also   wasn't that bit where that person went  crazy   really  rather   out of place?

(details left out  for spoiler reasons)


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 19, 2011)

ep 6 more of the same

getting bored now


----------



## AnnaKarpik (Aug 19, 2011)

I keep watching in case this flabby, formulaic imposter steps aside to reveal the real deal but it's a depressing experience. I've no idea what's supposed to be happening and fear the writer doesn't know at this point either.

I'm reminded of Lost; eventually I realised that my bafflement was intentional but it was supposed to lend an air of mystery. It lent an air of incompetence and lack of direction which, while it may be an accurate reflection of real life, doesn't make for an interesting story.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 19, 2011)

the biggest problem i had was it seems  to be lowest common denominator plot.

it tries to hard to be dark and edgy   but then  leaps into comedy and cliche.

the whole  camps thing  is preety much a re-run of CoE  but that  one did it better.

it's surprising how much can  happen  while  at the same time  nothing happens.    the last  two fucking  episodes have  been  them visiting a camp.    that's two goddamn hours.   i have  whole  movies or OVA series  that  have less runtime than that.


----------



## strung out (Aug 19, 2011)

i agree tbh. i like it to a certain extent and thought last week's episode was probably the best so far, but the whole series just isn't tight enough all round imo. the acting needs to be better, the script needs a bit of work, half the screentime should be cut and they need to cut down on most of the camp twee-ness. i'll watch the rest of it, as there's some good stuff in there, but it would have been much better as a 6 episode series.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 19, 2011)

strung out said:


> i agree tbh. i like it to a certain extent and thought last week's episode was probably the best so far, but the whole series just isn't tight enough all round imo. the acting needs to be better, the script needs a bit of work, half the screentime should be cut and they need to cut down on most of the camp twee-ness. i'll watch the rest of it, as there's some good stuff in there, but it would have been much better as a 6 episode series.



This says it all really.


----------



## Pingu (Aug 19, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> the biggest problem i had was it seems to be lowest common denominator plot.
> 
> it tries to hard to be dark and edgy but then leaps into comedy and cliche.
> 
> ...



^^this

but without the weird japanese shit that probably involves robot cat maids having sex with octopuss like alines that emerge from a gaishias crotch


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 19, 2011)

Nothing happened for a whole episode then gwen magically found a motorbike and some bombs and blew someplace up. Roll credits. This should never have been allowed near yankeeland


----------



## kittyP (Aug 19, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> kiss kiss bang bang was a good episode
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That turned me on far to much for having just got up plus i haven't heard that song for aaaages 

I have only seen one episode of Torchwood, the first one of the current series and it was one of the silliest things I have ever seen


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 19, 2011)

geeks among us recall the shame of spotting every buffy reference in the episodes of torchwood that had spike in them. bad times


----------



## belboid (Aug 19, 2011)

strung out said:


> the acting needs to be better


Most of the acting is okay.  Except for that stupid puppy faced yankee soldier, who is one of the most absurd characters yet, and, of course, Barrowman himself.  Stick to musical theatre love, you can't do straight acting to save your life.


----------



## DexterTCN (Aug 19, 2011)

That episode was cack, nothing but irrelevant filler and a waste of time, a good editor could have gotten this down to 4 episodes.

However US shows generally run for a longer season so filler episodes seem to be acceptable there.   I'll watch next week's but if there's no improvement I'm capable of not watching it with only 3 to go.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Nothing happened for a whole episode then gwen magically found a motorbike and some bombs and blew someplace up. Roll credits. This should never have been allowed near yankeeland



Well, she didn't "magically find some bombs", she found an ammo case of _plastique_ (more common than you'd think, because it's a lot better for boiling a brew than standard hexane blocks) and dets, but yeah. Torchwood is being made to appeal to a US market, which means a 10-13 episode season rather than someting more compact.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 19, 2011)

belboid said:


> Most of the acting is okay. Except for that stupid puppy faced yankee soldier, who is one of the most absurd characters yet, and, of course, Barrowman himself. Stick to musical theatre love, you can't do straight acting to save your life.



Puppy-faced?

I thought he'd had a stroke!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 19, 2011)

Missed last nights and last weeks. Did anything happen?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 19, 2011)

literally nothing


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 19, 2011)

well, not last week anyway. I've not seen last nights. I'm sacking it off for the borgias


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> well, not last week anyway. I've not seen last nights. I'm sacking it off for the borgias


 
nothing happened last night either.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 19, 2011)

Not much really.  TBH I'm thinkng of buying the series on DVD and watching at least 3 of the recent episodes at quadruple speed.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 19, 2011)

But in the trailer for last weeks, that welsh lady was saying something about finding out the real reason for miracle day, and heavily implying that there would be some sort of reveal.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 19, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> But in the trailer for last weeks, that welsh lady was saying something about finding out the real reason for miracle day, and heavily implying that there would be some sort of reveal.



that might be next weeks episode, I don't bother watching the bit telling you what happens next week ( because if this weeks episode was good enough I should want to continue watching on the strength of that not a 1 minute clip of the best bits from next week)


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 19, 2011)

More and more I am expecting Gwen to shave all but a little tuft on her head and start shagging a kangaroo.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 19, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> But in the trailer for last weeks, that welsh lady was saying something about finding out the real reason for miracle day, and heavily implying that there would be some sort of reveal.


The really big reveal was... da du daaaah...that there was no one human behind it all. It seems to have been masterminded on a worldwide scale for at least 5 years, incredibly well hidden, and what they're trying to figure out now is "the Blessing". Claimed to be a term of some importance in the early 1990s and then allegedly no further trace of it. Can you give me a "bathos" Brothers and Sisters?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 19, 2011)

I hate the US style spoilers of the next episode why the hell would I want to know key plot points out of context to see the damn thing before I can see the Damn thing... grow up america...

still at least it'll be as a DL tonight when it airs on stars before bbc... anyone else feel as a licence payer who's paid for this the preview shouldn't be happening in the states before us... I mean we've paid for it and they get it before we do... wtf bbc...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 19, 2011)

Greebo said:


> The really big reveal was... da du daaaah...that there was no one human behind it all. It seems to have been masterminded on a worldwide scale for at least 5 years, incredibly well hidden, and what they're trying to figure out now is "the Blessing". Claimed to be a term of some importance in the early 1990s and then allegedly no further trace of it. Can you give me a "bathos" Brothers and Sisters?


silence will fall...

I think moffit story arch...


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 19, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I hate the US style spoilers of the next episode why the hell would I want to know key plot points out of context to see the damn thing before I can see the Damn thing... grow up america...
> 
> still at least it'll be as a DL tonight when it airs on stars before bbc... anyone else feel as a licence payer who's paid for this the preview shouldn't be happening in the states before us... I mean we've paid for it and they get it before we do... wtf bbc...


We haz internet, so we only have to wait a few hours ffs.

*shrugs*


----------



## Greebo (Aug 19, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> <snip> anyone else feel as a licence payer who's paid for this the preview shouldn't be happening in the states before us... I mean we've paid for it and they get it before we do... wtf bbc...


Yes.  And FFS get rid of the trailers - no point ending on a cliffhanger and then following it with spoilers.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 19, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> We haz internet, so we only have to wait a few hours ffs.<snip>


You haz fast enough broadband for torrent, not everyone can get that.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 19, 2011)

Greebo said:


> You haz fast enough broadband for torrent, not everyone can get that.


No, I have a dongle and the ability to type sidereeldotcom. Megavideo and just wait a little while to start watching.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 19, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I hate the US style spoilers of the next episode why the hell would I want to know key plot points out of context to see the damn thing before I can see the Damn thing... grow up america...
> 
> still at least it'll be as a DL tonight when it airs on stars before bbc... anyone else feel as a licence payer who's paid for this the preview shouldn't be happening in the states before us... I mean we've paid for it and they get it before we do... wtf bbc...


 
are you sure we paid for it? from what I've read it was commisioned by starz for a US audience and we are getting the toned down version- presumably that was part of the deal that the beeb would get airing rights for a UK version and presumably the people at starz put up some dolla bill yo.

Anyone know better?


----------



## Greebo (Aug 19, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> No, I have a dongle and the ability to type sidereeldotcom. Megavideo and just wait a little while to start watching.


How much of a 1 GB data allowance would that eat up?


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> are you sure we paid for it? from what I've read it was commisioned by starz for a US audience and we are getting the toned down version- presumably that was part of the deal that the beeb would get airing rights for a UK version and presumably the people at starz put up some dolla bill yo.
> 
> Anyone know better?


It's BBC Worldwide Productions for BBC Wales and Starz . Since BBC Worldwide is the commercial part of the BBC I assume it's not paid for by the licence fee to make but that the BBC then pay BBC Worldwide for the rights to show Torchwood.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 19, 2011)

Greebo said:


> How much of a 1 GB data allowance would that eat up?


Not that much, maybe about 300mb? It would cost similar to wait a day and watch it on BBC, couple of quid. You get 7gb for £25/3gb for £15. I don't watch much telly so I may as well watch what I want.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 19, 2011)

Anyways, I shall watch it when I arise tomorrow morning, as I normally do.


----------



## belboid (Aug 19, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Missed last nights and last weeks. Did anything happen?


Gwen looked good on a motorbike. There was a pretty explosion. Usual yankee series thing of 'you thought you were chasing this, but NO! You're actually chasing _this_


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 19, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> We haz internet, so we only have to wait a few hours ffs.
> 
> *shrugs*


we do baby girl but in effect I'm resorting to illegally downloading copies of content I've paid for and has been licenced to another channel to be shown before I'm legally allowed to see it.

The equivalent would be me buying a book from amazon but their picker packer has to read it before I can get the book....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 19, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Anyways, I shall watch it when I arise tomorrow morning, as I normally do.


innit...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 19, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> No, I have a dongle and the ability to type sidereeldotcom. Megavideo and just wait a little while to start watching.


eztv.it ahem... much better...


----------



## Santino (Aug 25, 2011)

He's a bit like Jesus.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 25, 2011)

Santino said:


> He's a bit like Jesus.


Who, garf or the matey? 

I personally think it was worst. episode.yet.

Far too much backstory, I suspect the UK one was about 20 min shorter if they took out all the sexing....whole bit of plot could have been fit into much less time even _with_ the shagging.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 25, 2011)

Meh!


----------



## DexterTCN (Aug 25, 2011)

So...that's how gay guys do it...I had wondered.

It's a _little_ unfair to use Angelo as a major plot point when he was only introduced in the last ten seconds of episode 6.

However the 1920's story was certainly a lot more interesting than the 21st century one.   Obviously some modern fireworks were time-travelled back for them.


----------



## strung out (Aug 25, 2011)

i enjoyed tonights. still fairly slow, but the 1920s storyline was a nice change


----------



## madzone (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm finding the sex stuff _really_ cringey


----------



## Santino (Aug 25, 2011)

It turned me gay.


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 25, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> So...that's how gay guys do it...I had wondered.
> 
> It's a _little_ unfair to use Angelo as a major plot point when he was only introduced in the last ten seconds of episode 6.
> 
> However the 1920's story was certainly a lot more interesting than the 21st century one. Obviously some modern fireworks were time-travelled back for them.


The Chinese have had fireworks for thousands of years, why should 1920s ones be that different to modern ones?


----------



## DexterTCN (Aug 25, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> The Chinese have had fireworks for thousands of years, why should 1920s ones be that different to modern ones?


They had medicine as well...and it's just as easy to differentiate between 2000 year old, 1920 and 21st century fireworks, medicine, maths etc.

Angelo is going to be well over 100, is he aged or did the 3 dudes who bought our hero find/do something to/from Jack that's allowed them top live longer...are they trying to die?


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 25, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> They had medicine as well...and it's just as easy to differentiate between 2000 year old, 1920 and 21st century fireworks, medicine, maths etc.
> 
> Angelo is going to be well over 100, is he aged or did the 3 dudes who bought our hero find/do something to/from Jack that's allowed them top live longer...are they trying to die?


He got hooked on the alien shit and when the Cap left him ended up working with the tricksters brigade, do keep up! Why else is whoever is behind it revelling in the chaos that much?


----------



## strung out (Aug 25, 2011)

jack's spunk gave angelo the gift of everlasting life


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> jack's spunk gave angelo the gift of everlasting life


----------



## DexterTCN (Aug 25, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> He got hooked on the alien shit and when the Cap left him ended up working with the tricksters brigade, do keep up! Why else is whoever is behind it revelling in the chaos that much?


We don't know anyone is revelling. The series is pretty much designed so as it's fucking impossible to know fucking anything having watched 7 fucking hours.

Starting to look a bit like _*Once Upon a Time in America *_though


----------



## Greebo (Aug 25, 2011)

strung out said:


> jack's spunk gave angelo the gift of everlasting life


Or was it the saliva? Or the blood drained into that bottle?


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 25, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> We don't know anyone is revelling. The series is pretty much designed so as it's fucking impossible to know fucking anything having watched 7 fucking hours.
> 
> Starting to look a bit like _*Once Upon a Time in America *_though


Someone wanted the chaos, or they'd have just kidnapped Gwen's family from the off to go after Jack. I reckon it's this 'tricksters brigade' that was mentioned in this latest episode, as they feed off chaos.

*shrugs*

I could be totally wrong though.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 25, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> So...that's how gay guys do it...I had wondered.
> 
> It's a _little_ unfair to use Angelo as a major plot point when he was only introduced in the last ten seconds of episode 6.
> 
> However the 1920's story was certainly a lot more interesting than the 21st century one. Obviously some modern fireworks were time-travelled back for them.


What would have been the point of introducing him earlier?  He only became relevant to the story in this episode.


----------



## madzone (Aug 26, 2011)

If they _must_ have so much sex in it why does it have to be Barrowman? Him acting sexy makes me feel sick


----------



## Pingu (Aug 26, 2011)

even mrs pingu was bored shitless by that episode and she loves torchwood. i fell asleep at a couple of points and as for the extended sex scenes shizzle.. meh.. added nothing to the plot. OK so you are gay.. whoop de fucking do.. get on with the fucking plot


----------



## madzone (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm not averse to a bit of boy on boy action but it's so badly done. It's cheesy and squirmy and Barrowmanny


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 26, 2011)

Greebo said:


> Or was it the saliva? *Or the blood drained into that bottle?*



This ^, they'll have been vamping on the blood of Christ Barrowman. As Mrs. P said, Ruffle T. likes a bit of blasphemy doesn't he ?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 26, 2011)

Jesus, it's just plain painful now.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Aug 26, 2011)

madzone said:


> I'm not averse to a bit of boy on boy action but it's so badly done. It's cheesy and squirmy and Barrowmanny


Angelo was alright though!

I quite enjoyed that episode. Plus. Major Kira and then, in the trailor for next week Q. Geek overload!


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 26, 2011)

madzone said:


> I'm not averse to a bit of boy on boy action but it's so badly done. It's cheesy and squirmy and Barrowmanny


Innit just! It's like straight sex used to be like on telly in the 90s *shudder*


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 26, 2011)

I wonder if you have to say 'I smashed the grandad out of it' when refering to boning a man


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 26, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Jesus, it's just plain painful now.



The sex?


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Angelo was alright though!
> 
> I quite enjoyed that episode. Plus. Major Kira and then, in the trailor for next week Q. Geek overload!



I spotted Kira, then Q - I await Sisko. Ernie Hudson as well last week. WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNSTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON.

Also a clunky Doctor Who reference there this week.


----------



## Helen Back (Aug 27, 2011)

Where was Q?


----------



## Balbi (Aug 27, 2011)

In the next week trailer.


----------



## Helen Back (Aug 27, 2011)

Ah. I only watch the US one, they don't have that.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 27, 2011)

What is this tricksters brigade thing people are on about, it must be something that I missed since I'm not giving torchwood my full attention 9 because it is a bit crap really and you shouldn't NEED to give it your full attention)

Also the back story to introdcue you to angelo (or whatever his name was) then the revealing that he's the one who kidnapped gwens family is a really shit way of introducing a character, especially one who it looks like will be a major part of the plot.

The worst thing is , I'm off to France on 9th September so I am only going to be able to watch 1 more episode and I won't know what happens at the end.


----------



## madzone (Aug 27, 2011)

Yeah, I don't know who the trickster brigade are either.


----------



## Pingu (Aug 27, 2011)

tbh i dont really care who they are.

this is bad as it means the programme has lost my interest.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Aug 27, 2011)

The Trickster: Was in Sarah Jane Smith...







The Trickster's Brigade was mentioned in 10th Dr adventures...


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 27, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> What is this tricksters brigade thing people are on about, it must be something that I missed since I'm not giving torchwood my full attention 9 because it is a bit crap really and you shouldn't NEED to give it your full attention)
> 
> Also the back story to introdcue you to angelo (or whatever his name was) then the revealing that he's the one who kidnapped gwens family is a really shit way of introducing a character, especially one who it looks like will be a major part of the plot.
> 
> The worst thing is , I'm off to France on 9th September so I am only going to be able to watch 1 more episode and I won't know what happens at the end.


stream it or torrent?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> I spotted Kira, then Q - I await Sisko. Ernie Hudson as well last week. WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNSTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON.
> 
> Also a clunky Doctor Who reference there this week.



I thought I saw the neelix guy or was it quark.


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 27, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> because it is a bit crap really and you shouldn't NEED to give it your full attention)


Why shouldn't you need to have to give it your full attention? And I don't agree that this is crap. I think this series has been good. I don't think it's too slow at all.



> Also the back story to introdcue you to angelo (or whatever his name was) then the revealing that he's the one who kidnapped gwens family is a really shit way of introducing a character, especially one who it looks like will be a major part of the plot.


How else should they have introduced someone from Jack's past who had no relevance to the story before and only just now has become important?


> The worst thing is , I'm off to France on 9th September so I am only going to be able to watch 1 more episode and I won't know what happens at the end.


Record them?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 27, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Why shouldn't you need to have to give it your full attention? And I don't agree that this is crap. I think this series has been good. I don't think it's too slow at all.


You must have a high tolerance for crap. I find myself having to do something else while it's on to prevent boredom.



Bungle73 said:


> How else should they have introduced someone from Jack's past who had no relevance to the story before and only just now has become important


I don't know, I'm not a writer, but I can spot ham fisted jarring plots developments when they leap out of the screen.



Bungle73 said:


> Record them?


I turn all the power off when I go on holiday. Not everyone has a Tevo thing or a recording device. I don't.


----------



## madzone (Aug 27, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You must have a high tolerance for crap. I find myself having to do something else while it's on to prevent boredom.



Me too. It's about 6 episodes worth of story imo.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2011)

have given up two episodes ago. I will watch the last one to see what happens. At least I can gayrentee something will actually happen in the last episode.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I turn all the power off when I go on holiday. Not everyone has a Tevo thing or a recording device. I don't.


iplayer?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 27, 2011)

BBCi?
I think each ep only sticks around for a week.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> BBCi?
> I think each ep only sticks around for a week.


at the moment bbc have them all on iplayer. they'll stick around til a week after the last one. how long's your holiday? there's always torrenting, of course.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 27, 2011)

Not my holiday. There is no way I would be worried about missing the end of Torchwood.


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 28, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> have given up two episodes ago. I will watch the last one to see what happens. At least I can gayrentee something will actually happen in the last episode.



might be worth your watching next weeks it's better, although the only one I've found slow was this weeks.


----------



## barney_pig (Aug 28, 2011)

I feel that etching this is like being transported back to the eighties early aids adverts:
"YOUR GAY SEX HAS DESTROYED THE WORLD!"
Bannerman is so up himself in real life, this just seems to be confirming that he really is the center of the universe.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 28, 2011)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You must have a high tolerance for crap. I find myself having to do something else while it's on to prevent boredom.
> 
> I don't know, I'm not a writer, but I can spot ham fisted jarring plots developments when they leap out of the screen.
> 
> I turn all the power off when I go on holiday. Not everyone has a Tevo thing or a recording device. I don't.



those are all the answers I'd have given  Except the last one where I will be technically homeless after 6th September so I won't even have a recording device plugged in.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 28, 2011)

The other thing I realised about Torchwood the other day is how shit the dialogue is. Dr Who suffers from the same thing but it seems to get away with it better. Maybe someone should tell the writers that making an adult spin-off of Dr Who doesn't mean you just add some sex.


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 29, 2011)

I've been re-watching series 1  tonight (bit of a marathon) and it is much better than I remembered it being.  Just thought I'd share this realisation.


----------



## strung out (Aug 29, 2011)

i like charlie brooker's piece on season 1 of torchwood...



a bit like scooby doo


----------



## belboid (Aug 30, 2011)

just caught up...god what a stupid bloody episode. yes, we know Jack likes a bit of action, we dont need to see it thank you very much. And poorly plotted, if you're going to introduce such a major character so late, you should at least drop some clues that there is going to be such a person, that someone, anyone, from Jacks past is going to be key to the whole thing.  Still, only two to go, may as well stick with it.


----------



## strung out (Aug 30, 2011)

three to go innit?


----------



## belboid (Aug 30, 2011)

quite right, you are


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 6, 2011)

I saw episode 8  of this last night and it really is terrible. Can anyone tell me what the actual purpose of that Oswald Danes character is? He's spent the entire series to date just sort of hanging around, sparring with the redhead who used to be in Six Feet Under and exuding sleaze and evil. But none of it ever goes anywhere!


----------



## Santino (Sep 6, 2011)

Remember how in the first couple of episodes you could cut someone's head off and they'd still be conscious? Now you can shoot someone and they sort-of-die, because otherwise it's impossible to quickly resolve conflicts with a gun.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 6, 2011)

I don't think a lot of these 'plotholes' really are inconsistencies at all.

I think it's excellently conceived, well written and acted and a gripping storyline. First tv show in a long time that has me waiting a week for the next one.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 7, 2011)

I've been catching up with Torchwood.  Series 1 was a bit meh, series 2 was pretty good and I loved series 3.  So I watched the first episode of series 4 with a bit of hope.

Oh my god.  Absolute fucking dross.  Really fucking awful.  I'm currently half way through episode 2 and it's no better.

What in the fuck happened?  Americanized bollocks.  Fucking Yanks, have to ruin everything.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 9, 2011)

Well I've watched this much so will watch the last one next week.  I won't be watching again though.   Dire.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 9, 2011)

I have to admit that I am determined to see this series through and have watched episodes 3 and 4 now too.  And if anything, it has got worse.  At this point, it's like some kind of challenge to myself that having downloaded it, I'm damn well watching it.

Such a shame.  Series three really found its heart and purpose.  A superb 5 hours of television.  I had so much hope for series four.


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 9, 2011)

Just one more day to go for us downloadin' folk and it will all be over. Phew!


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Sep 9, 2011)

The Blessing... does it remind anyone of anything?


----------



## Santino (Sep 9, 2011)

feedmeastraycat said:


> The Blessing... does it remind anyone of anything?


Can you widen this question out a little?


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Sep 9, 2011)

Think 'Freud'.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 9, 2011)

A massive gash in the earth? I have no idea what that could be...


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Sep 9, 2011)

Yup that's the one.

If I was a Freudist I'd probably say that this torchwood series RTD is living out his eurotophobia.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 9, 2011)

I forgot this was still on.
What's happened?


----------



## feedmeastraycat (Sep 9, 2011)

Basically, if Jack hasn't bummed a guy on-screen he soon will, the series is running on Holocaust analogies and at the centre of it all is a giant vagina.

Oh and welsh people are unintentionally hillarious, even when positioned in situations of abject horror.

This is the greatest program of all time.


----------



## captainmission (Sep 9, 2011)

i don't get how the big earth vigiana runs through the centre of the earth with it being horizontal. But maybe te last episode will explain everthing and make up for 9 hours of awfulness


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 9, 2011)

They must have stolen the Earth's core  otherwise that would be gushing magma


----------



## captainmission (Sep 9, 2011)

the earth has no core, its full of lesbian lizard ladies!


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 9, 2011)

I saw twenty mins. Love the ambitious public transport idea. Prob needs a few more stops.


----------



## Santino (Sep 9, 2011)

It has the stink of something that will be deleted from 'the canon' in a year or two. Or it turned out to be in a parallel dimension or something.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 9, 2011)

It must be the lure of filthy lucre that blinds otherwise sensible people to repeat the idiocy of mid-Atlantic drama.


----------



## Santino (Sep 9, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> the idiocy of mid-Atlantic drama.


What, like 'Titanic'?


----------



## Gromit (Sep 9, 2011)

I was waiting for something wow to happen at the blessing. 
Two women standing and looking at a magical, giant gash... that don't impress a me much.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 9, 2011)

I dunno about that....


----------



## belboid (Sep 9, 2011)

if the blessing told Claire from Six Feet Under that she's 'right' - does that mean it basically told her she's a giant cunt?


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 9, 2011)

If you reckon that looked anything like a giant vagina then the blessing has told you you're a bit of a cunt...


----------



## Gromit (Sep 9, 2011)

belboid said:


> if the blessing told Claire from Six Feet Under that she's 'right' - does that mean it basically told her she's a giant cunt?



Right as in Right Wing.... so yes.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Sep 9, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> A massive gash in the earth? I have no idea what that could be...



They seemed to talk about the gash in the Inbetweeners film a lot.
I'm not really getting the plot here.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 9, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> If you reckon that looked anything like a giant vagina then the blessing has told you you're a bit of a cunt...


It certainly felt too mainstream to rep Mother Earth....


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 9, 2011)

I expect that the only way to stop it is to chuck John Barrowman into the pussy.


----------



## belboid (Sep 9, 2011)

and it seems to work, rather like The Total Perspective Vortex, doesn't it?_
_


----------



## Santino (Sep 15, 2011)

Come on, everyone. Let's just get through this.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

Huh.  Because I download it, I already watched it last week and I never even realised I was ahead of the UK.

The final episode was shit, by the way.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 15, 2011)

Bring back the alien sex gas


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

UK viewing figures for the first 8 episodes (millions):
6.59
5.75
5.49
5.19
5.17
4.60
4.48
4.64

Small blip up on the 8th episode, otherwise a steady downward trend.  And a whopping 13% of the audience lost after the first episode, rising to 17% (one-sixth) after two episodes.

Not good reading for the makers, I wouldn't have thought.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

Santino said:


> Remember how in the first couple of episodes you could cut someone's head off and they'd still be conscious? Now you can shoot someone and they sort-of-die, because otherwise it's impossible to quickly resolve conflicts with a gun.


I was thinking about this and it isn't even just the really obvious problem that shooting them renders them completely dead.  It's also the fact that those camps are full of utterly comatose people, despite the fact that even a _burnt decapitated corpse_ still moved its eyes around in the first few episodes.

The whole internal logic was totally shot to shit.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 15, 2011)

Right...that's 10 hours of my life I'll never get back.

Like my last relationship, actually.

(also starring a large vagina)


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 15, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> I expect that the only way to stop it is to chuck John Barrowman into the pussy.


Very perceptive there, except that it turned out it was just his blood that had to be pulled into the Blessing by its special magnetic force or whatever it was called. Being immortal, a bullet through the back at point blank range was just a temporary problem for him.

That bit of dialogue about the banks and the world economy seems to have been a bit of an uncomfortable patch-in, to make it seem topical. I have only watched the last two episodes but it didn't seem to be quality television to me. The story might have worked as a book, but the ending was a real let down.


----------



## strung out (Sep 15, 2011)

i watched to the end and 'enjoyed' it. absolutely nowhere near as good as children of earth though. there was just too much wrong with it.


----------



## Santino (Sep 15, 2011)

Jesus


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 15, 2011)

Bring back The Persuaders!


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

I quite enjoyed the last scene twist though, despite myself.


----------



## gsv (Sep 15, 2011)

Final episode was great. If they'd made the whole thing to CoE format - half the length and shown in a week flat - it could have been fantastic.

GS(v)


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

gsv said:


> Final episode was great. If they'd made the whole thing to CoE format - half the length and shown in a week flat - it could have been fantastic.
> 
> GS(v)


No it couldn't.  Nothing made sense, the switch to the US was the most appalling Americanized rubbish, it was inconsistent and the cast were desperately dull.


----------



## Santino (Sep 15, 2011)

At times it felt like it was a proper 13 part US series which had had its budget slashed, necessitating half of every episode to take place on one set.

I like how the evidence of the traitor was texted to that guy's phone at the very last minute. It's literally what a child would come up with.
 'And then, and then the software with that lady's name is sent to his phone.'

'How, Russell? How does that happen?'

'I don't know, it JUST DOES.'


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

At one point, Jack said something along the lines of Torchwood losing its soul when it lost Ianto.  Turns out that was about right,.


----------



## gsv (Sep 15, 2011)

kabbes said:


> No it couldn't. Nothing made sense, the switch to the US was the most appalling Americanized rubbish, it was inconsistent and the cast were desperately dull.


Yeah but there was some cracking stuff there - the death camps, the flashback episode, Danes, Kitzinger - drowning in a sea of padding. Down at 5 episodes it would have been _tight_. Imagne the ovens episode played out in about half the time, with no room for waffle or comedy asides - sorted!

GS(v)


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

Five episodes and keeping the whole thing set in Britain, I'll give you.

And Danes was the most pointless character ever.


----------



## Santino (Sep 15, 2011)

What was the point of Danes to the plan? What WAS the plan? Why hadn't they blown up the Blessing holes months ago?


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

Santino said:


> What was the point of Danes to the plan? What WAS the plan? Why hadn't they blown up the Blessing holes months ago?


I wonder how many questions to the plot we could come up with if we actually tried?


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

Let alone elements of pointless padding.  Like that "Dead is dead" senator.  Utter waste of precious drama space.

The writers should be forced to watch Mad Men and then write 1,000 words about the importance of not wasting a single line of dialogue, let alone a whole scene.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 15, 2011)

How did they know that putting Jack's blood in both holes would result in the whole world becoming immortal?  It's not like it's a thesis you can test.  And yet they'd planned for it.

And their plan involved... what?  Stockpiling painkillers?  That's it?

How did the death camps actually help the families in any way?

None of it made remotely any sense.


----------



## Santino (Sep 15, 2011)

I think it was genuinely written by some people listening to a child describing two different TV series they'd seen and got confused.


----------



## Santino (Sep 15, 2011)

'And then, and then, the man shoots someone and he dies...'

'But I thought people couldn't die?'

'And then the Director of the CIA walks in...'

'Hang on, where's he come from? Why wasn't he in the CIA office earlier?'

'And then, and then...'


----------



## captainmission (Sep 16, 2011)

well that was just ghastly,

and what exactly was the point in the 3 families? what were they actually trying to achive?

So 3 mob families find some imortal blood, don't do anything with it for several decade but grow to be really powerful to the extent they've infiltrated every goverment agency. Like all good gangsters they keep an eye on demogrpahic studies until the find magic loving earth pussy to throw the blood down. This make everyone immortal which is apparently good as they can then take control of the banks for some reason. And there's also a part 2 of the plan which involves clair off six feet under writing world history or some guff?

And these were considered such compelling villians they set up an ending to bring them back in a further series?

a dog with shifty eyes would have made a more convincing villian


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2011)

I'd worked out the final twist 10 minute earlier. Too obvious.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 16, 2011)

Gromit said:


> I'd worked out the final twist 10 minute earlier. Too obvious.


Yeah i Saw that one coming as soon as they said about the transfusion and the polar nonsense.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2011)

I knew I wise to give this up midway through the series. Give america Dante and they'll make a colouring book from it.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 16, 2011)

Overall I've enoyed the series, I liked the slower pace of the episodes and I'm glad they avoided making a poor copy of the CoE format. Admittedly they could have made the episodes bit meatier in places and a bit of deeper characterization here or there wouldn't have gone amiss but its not so much of an issue that it spoilt anything for me. I will hope to see some new Torchwood at some time but I suppose as freddie says its in the lap of the gods.


----------



## killer b (Sep 16, 2011)

has everything russell t davies been involved with been a total embarrassment? i can't understand why he isn't signing on...


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 16, 2011)

In the little I saw I was left with a strong sense - not dissimilar to Children of God - that RTD really, really wants to commentate on contemporary politics on both sides of the Atlantic, and as between both sides.

Aslo, I noticed at the end of this that Jane Tranter was an Executive Producer along with RTD.....


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

These three families had _everything_.  They had control of politics, finance, corporations, the lot.  Their members lived _literally _like old-school aristocracy.  So what exactly was their interest in destroying the society that was keeping them living like this?


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 16, 2011)

Good old megalomaniac eugenicist policies I think.
Was rather amused by Captain Jack having to make the ultimate sacrifice by pouring his essence into the massive gash...
...and at the end both me and the missus were shouting "not so special now are you, Jack?!" 

Generally underwhelmed and annoying but still worth watching at 9pm on a thursday


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> These three families had _everything_. They had control of politics, finance, corporations, the lot. Their members lived _literally _like old-school aristocracy. So what exactly was their interest in destroying the society that was keeping them living like this?



You mean like New Labour, the Etonians and the Lib Dems?

I didn't see enough of it to get a sense of anything. Maybe there was that blood of Christ thing going on, but it felt like one of those dinners where you have nothing in the house and just put random items in the pasta sauce.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Eugenicist policies in order to achieve...?

Basically, it was:

1. Make everybody immortal
2. ???
3. Profit.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> it felt like one of those dinners where you have nothing in the house and just put random items in the pasta sauce.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

The point of Danes was because the the family needed someone in the public eye to push their agenda along while staying hidden themselves, he should have been killed off earlier though.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 16, 2011)

Kill off a load of unworthies (for the lols) and then rebuild the world as their own personal fiefdoms where they could _ostentatiously _rule as neo-pharoahs?

[/straw clutching]


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> The point of Danes was because the the family needed someone in the public eye to push their agenda along while staying hidden themselves, he should have been killed off earlier though.


_What_ agenda?  Srs, what was Danes saying and why was this so important to the families?  A bunch of bland statements about painkillers being important?

Leaving aside the fact that if you wanted to create a populist leader to carry a message, you'd surely start from _anywhere_ other than a notorious rapist-paedophile-murderer?

Pretty much _every single thing_ that I can think of about that plot made no sense whatsoever.


----------



## Santino (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> These three families had _everything_.  They had control of politics, finance, corporations, the lot.  Their members lived _literally _like old-school aristocracy.  So what exactly was their interest in destroying the society that was keeping them living like this?


Immortality?


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 16, 2011)

Recognition for being better than everyone else?


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> _What_ agenda? Srs, what was Danes saying and why was this so important to the families? A bunch of bland statements about painkillers being important?
> 
> Leaving aside the fact that if you wanted to create a populist leader to carry a message, you'd surely start from _anywhere_ other than a notorious rapist-paedophile-murderer?
> 
> Pretty much _every single thing_ that I can think of about that plot made no sense whatsoever.



did they create danes or use him because he was a good resource that they found? I agree he was fairly pointless but I get the impression that the people writing the programme didn't think that.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Santino said:


> Immortality?


It wasn't proper immortality though.  You still got fucked up, you just had to then cope with an eternity of being a living helpless corpse.  That's even shittier than dying.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> did they create danes or use him because he was a good resource that they found? I agree he was fairly pointless but I get the impression that the people writing the programme didn't think that.


Yes, they created him as a populist leader.  He was in the process of disappearing into being a punching bag for the mob and they brought him back into the limelight.  And they stage managed him to try to make him a leader.  I can't imagine a worse choice.

And what was their agenda anyway?  What was it they actually wanted Danes to lead the mob into thinking?  "We should have painkillers".  Is that it?


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Yes, they created him as a populist leader. He was in the process of disappearing into being a punching bag for the mob and they brought him back into the limelight. And they stage managed him to try to make him a leader. I can't imagine a worse choice.
> 
> And what was their agenda anyway? What was it they actually wanted Danes to lead the mob into thinking? "We should have painkillers". Is that it?



Fuck knows. There doesn't seem to be any logic in the motivation of what the Families were doing throughout the series. I get the impression the actual reasons for the miracle weren't as important as the miracle itself for the writers.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

I love the implied thought process.

"Hmm, we have some blood of an immortal man.  The blood doesn't seem to do anything at all, but we'll hold onto it."
"Hmm, we have found a giant vagina that runs through the earth.  We don't know anything about it or what it does in any way, but it looks like it's important."
"I know!  We'll feed some of that useless immortal man's blood into both ends of the giant vagina at _exactly the same moment_ (ignoring the fact that relativistic effects mean that there is no such thing as "exactly the same moment") despite the fact that they are antipodes and the organisation of managing it will be tricky.  That will be _bound_ to do something really cool."
"Yeah, and we should spend 10 years stockpiling painkillers first, just in case."

lolwut


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 16, 2011)

> "Hmm, we have some blood of an immortal man. The blood doesn't seem to do anything at all, but we'll hold onto it."
> "Hmm, we have found a giant vagina that runs through the earth. We don't know anything about it or what it does in any way, but it looks like it's important."
> "I know! We'll feed some of that useless immortal man's blood into both ends of the giant vagina at _exactly the same moment_



sounds like some of the puzzles in that Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy Game


----------



## gsv (Sep 16, 2011)

The more I think about it, the more it feels like RTD wrote a 5-parter. Then Starz demanded a 10-part series and he had to write 5 whole episodes of padding, like that "dead is dead" woman harridan.

GS(v)


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

I thought it was brilliant.

The slow pace allowed time for a few subplots about the effect of immortality on society and Bill Pullman was excellent as Danes. How creepy was it to hear him growl "Susie, keep running I'm coming get you!" while simultaneously killing himself. Awesome writing.

And I'm a little in love with Glen Cooper. I resisted for the longest time... but Danes was right - she is magnificent!

Also Rex. Saw it coming, glad it did... 

.. dunno, been a long time since I've enjoyed a series like this one.

Good tv is like great sex.... it's gripping at first... there's a bit where you're not sure what's going on... all of a sudden it starts to get a bit intense and then you come to a massive climax that leaves you satisfied but also wanting more. And also, the older you get the longer you have to wait before you can do it again..


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

You're kidding, right?  That has to be sarcasm.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> These three families had _everything_.  They had control of politics, finance, corporations, the lot.  Their members lived _literally _like old-school aristocracy.  So what exactly was their interest in destroying the society that was keeping them living like this?



They want to rule the world, seas will rise when they give the word.
To roll the dice, feel the fear in their enemy's eyes.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> You're kidding, right?  That has to be sarcasm.



Perhaps you just have higher standards than me? Truth be told I don't watch many tv series' anymore. Mostly because they are shit. So I don't have much to compare it with.

This, however, was not shit. I liked who I was meant to like, felt what I was meant to feel and was eager to know what happens next. So I enjoyed every second of it.

If having poor taste means I get to enjoy a series as much as this...


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Perhaps you just have higher standards than me? Truth be told I don't watch many tv series' anymore. Mostly because they are shit. So I don't have much to compare it with.
> 
> This, however, was not shit. I liked who I was meant to like, felt what I was meant to feel and was eager to know what happens next. So I enjoyed every second of it.
> 
> If having poor taste means I get to enjoy a series as much as this...



I think most people must have higher standards than you 

I think the main problem with Torchwood is it wants to be an adult Doctor Who but it didn't treat it's audience like adults in terms of plot and dialogue.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Gromit said:


> They want to rule the world, seas will rise when they give the word.
> To roll the dice, feel the fear in their enemy's eyes.



Controlling or ruling... hiding or being worshipped? Phase 1? Plan B?

Questions.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> I think most people must have higher standards than you



It's true. I'm easy to please. 



> I think the main problem with Torchwood is it wants to be an adult Doctor Who but it didn't treat it's audience like adults in terms of plot and dialogue.



Putting aside Doctor Who (which has lost it)... I thought MD had some very adult themes, the use of a gay lover to draw Jack out... the dead is dead/only doing what I'm told furnace subplot. And you can't tell me that Danes unrepentant hero wasn't an incredibly adult character.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

The biggest problem that Miracle Day had was Children of Earth.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Controlling or ruling... hiding or being worshipped? Phase 1? Plan B?
> 
> Questions.



True power lies behind a throne not on it. 
They intend to rule from the shadows.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> It's true. I'm easy to please.
> 
> Putting aside Doctor Who (which has lost it)... I thought MD had some very adult themes, the use of a gay lover to draw Jack out... the dead is dead/only doing what I'm told furnace subplot. And you can't tell me that Danes unrepentant hero wasn't an incredibly adult character.



I don't disagree with you about content of the plot being adult themed but it's the way it was written that comes across as childish.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Anybody that is seeking to defend it: can you please give us a précis of the plot that actually makes sense of _any_ of the questions being raised in this thread?


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

I didn't see it, so don't know what you're talking about. Probably caught one episode. Thought it was boring.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Gromit said:


> True power lies behind a throne not on it.
> They intend to rule from the shadows.



Who rules angels?


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Anybody that is seeking to defend it: can you please give us a précis of the plot that actually makes sense of _any_ of the questions being raised in this thread?



Which questions?

The plot was fairly simple... three powerful families get hold of a number of artifacts of significance. They use them to try and become gods. Jack stops them. Rex by accident inherits jack's immortality.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Sorry... Gwen stops them.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Who rules angels?



The Governance of Deities squad. A regulatory body made up of an expert panel.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Which questions?
> 
> The plot was fairly simple... three powerful families get hold of a number of artifacts of significance. They use them to try and become gods. Jack stops them. Rex by accident inherits jack's immortality.


That doesn't answer any of the questions.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> I don't disagree with you about content of the plot being adult themed but it's the way it was written that comes across as childish.



In what way? I thought some of the writing was genuinely chilling.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> That doesn't answer any of the questions.



Which questions?


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Gromit said:


> The Governance of Deities squad. A regulatory body made up of an expert panel.



The universe, infinity and Simon Cowell?


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Which questions?
> 
> The plot was fairly simple... three powerful families get hold of a number of artifacts of significance. They use them to try and become gods. Jack stops them. Rex by accident inherits jack's immortality.



Thats fair enough but this is where I'm coming from with the childish plot, it is a very simple plot that could have been done in a much shorter series without all the filler, and it's the filler that makes no sense.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> The universe, infinity and Simon Cowell?



Robbie Williams is currently sitting in for infinity (concentrating on a breaking America solo) whilst God is filling in for Cowell (but will be turfed out when Simon returns for the live finals)


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Which questions?



Here are just some of the many posts that raise questions about the plot:



Santino said:


> At times it felt like it was a proper 13 part US series which had had its budget slashed, necessitating half of every episode to take place on one set.
> 
> I like how the evidence of the traitor was texted to that guy's phone at the very last minute. It's literally what a child would come up with.
> 'And then, and then the software with that lady's name is sent to his phone.'
> ...


 


kabbes said:


> These three families had _everything_. They had control of politics, finance, corporations, the lot. Their members lived _literally _like old-school aristocracy. So what exactly was their interest in destroying the society that was keeping them living like this?





kabbes said:


> _What_ agenda? Srs, what was Danes saying and why was this so important to the families? A bunch of bland statements about painkillers being important?
> 
> Leaving aside the fact that if you wanted to create a populist leader to carry a message, you'd surely start from _anywhere_ other than a notorious rapist-paedophile-murderer?
> 
> Pretty much _every single thing_ that I can think of about that plot made no sense whatsoever.





kabbes said:


> How did they know that putting Jack's blood in both holes would result in the whole world becoming immortal? It's not like it's a thesis you can test. And yet they'd planned for it.
> 
> And their plan involved... what? Stockpiling painkillers? That's it?
> 
> ...





Santino said:


> What was the point of Danes to the plan? What WAS the plan? Why hadn't they blown up the Blessing holes months ago?





Santino said:


> 'And then, and then, the man shoots someone and he dies...'
> 
> 'But I thought people couldn't die?'
> 
> ...


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Technically I did it in a paragraph... but it was nowhere near as much fun. And CIA headquarters didn't get blown up! Plus charlotte's touch of sending the translator in to get blown up just because she hated her... what a bitch!


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> In what way? I thought some of the writing was genuinely chilling.



I'm not disagreeing with you in those terms, as an adult sticking in some sex or gore doesn't make something adult for me , it needs to have some level of complexity to the plot (and by complexity I mean stuff that makes sense not just crap thrown in to suddenly to explain something) and this didn't have that.

A great example is the flashback episode, they need to get the bit where the families get jacks blood so they just stick it in and then next episode it suddenly becomes relevant, it was a fucking awful plot device and to be honest it was really poor writing, I can imagine the writers thought process when they realise they needed to introduce jacks lover as a significant character so they threw the flashback episode to get round it. The idea that a new character has to be shoehorned in like that rather than introduced as a gradual process leaving you to wonder about their significance over a few episodes than how it was done, is quite frankly an insult to my intelligence.


----------



## Pingu (Sep 16, 2011)

on a sliding scale from shite to OMFG i rated that series as "meh"

way too disjointed


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2011)

My biggest gripe of the gay lover arc was the  abduction, turned into come meet the man behind the miracle, turned into actually he knows fuck all it was the family wot dun it (and we know fuck all about them too, other than their names).


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

That is indeed a very big gripe, but is it the _biggest_ gripe?  Tough call, tough call.


----------



## gsv (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Anybody that is seeking to defend it: can you please give us a précis of the plot that actually makes sense of _any_ of the questions being raised in this thread?


The plot holes are plot holes. They don't really matter. If it had been tight - _a ride_ - you wouldn't really give a shit.

GS(v)


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 16, 2011)

Perhaps one of the problems might be RDT is having difficulty moving from teatime tv to grown up tv - you can paper over a lot more nonsense at 6.00pm on a Saturday on the basis it had to be made simple because of the demographic.

What's RTD's best effort in relation to adult programming?


----------



## gsv (Sep 16, 2011)

Queer as Folk

GS(v)


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Here are just some of the many posts that raise questions about the plot:



Okay... point by point if possible.

1. Smart phone. Not really that difficult.
2. Immortality and deification.
3. Danes introduced the concept of category zero and served as a mouthpiece for the "angels" plotline. His use to the family was incidental and he was told as such at the end. He gave himself purpose... but for inhuman reasons.
4. a) How did they know? Perhaps they tried one at a time and it did nothing... perhaps their research turned up an old legend about immortal blood? I'm not sure it matters. They is powerful...had lots of time and growing resources.
b) Phase 1. They never got to phase 2. The painkillers and death camps were for general population control.
5. They needed to remove jack and all his blood first? Not sure, really.
6. not sure what you're referring to.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> I'm not disagreeing with you in those terms, as an adult sticking in some sex or gore doesn't make something adult for me , it needs to have some level of complexity to the plot (and by complexity I mean stuff that makes sense not just crap thrown in to suddenly to explain something) and this didn't have that.
> 
> A great example is the flashback episode, they need to get the bit where the families get jacks blood so they just stick it in and then next episode it suddenly becomes relevant, it was a fucking awful plot device and to be honest it was really poor writing, I can imagine the writers thought process when they realise they needed to introduce jacks lover as a significant character so they threw the flashback episode to get round it. The idea that a new character has to be shoehorned in like that rather than introduced as a gradual process leaving you to wonder about their significance over a few episodes than how it was done, is quite frankly an insult to my intelligence.



It didn't seem shoehorned at all. Although that episode did focus a bit too much on building a history to their relationship.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Gromit said:


> My biggest gripe of the gay lover arc was the  abduction, turned into come meet the man behind the miracle, turned into actually he knows fuck all it was the family wot dun it (and we know fuck all about them too, other than their names).



Bait.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Okay... point by point if possible.
> 
> 1. Smart phone. Not really that difficult.
> 2. Immortality and deification.
> ...


None of that actually works though at anything other than the most surface of responses.  They raise more questions than they answer.  Many of the questions that your responses raise have been mentioned in this very thread.

Oh well, if you're satisfied then so be it, I suppose.  Very few others are.


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 16, 2011)

gsv said:


> Queer as Folk
> 
> GS(v)


I don't know that either. Oh well.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Although that episode did focus a bit too much on building a history to their relationship.



I think thats sort of the definition of shoehorned, especially when a flashback method of advancing plot hadn't been used before in the series (or after)


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 16, 2011)

Pseudopsycho said:


> sounds like some of the puzzles in that Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy Game


You don't have any more fish.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> That is indeed a very big gripe, but is it the _biggest_ gripe?  Tough call, tough call.





Kizmet said:


> Bait.



Well it was some great big conspiracy thread just to give them one small lead after them hitting a deadend.

So Torchwood the most secret dohdad on the planet, his organisation was able to find out heaps and heaps about them, including the existance of a super dangerous alien tech null field.
Yet all those resources were unable to find out fook all about the company and they didn't use them as a resource from that point onwards.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Sep 16, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> You don't have any more fish.


I wish I had some fish, I'm stuck arguing with a door on the heart of gold


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

The biggest problem I have with Torchwood is that it's a 10 episode series and people seem to have watched all of it, when they didn't even think it made any sense. Only 1 person seems to have liked it yet we all watched on as it became ever more ludicrous .


----------



## Santino (Sep 16, 2011)

It was compellingly bad.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> The biggest problem I have with Torchwood is that it's a 10 episode series and people seem to have watched all of it, when they didn't even think it made any sense. Only 1 person seems to have liked it yet we all watched on as it became ever more ludicrous .


 
I'll have you know I ditched it just over halfway through and I was right to do so.


----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> The biggest problem I have with Torchwood is that it's a 10 episode series and people seem to have watched all of it, when they didn't even think it made any sense. Only 1 person seems to have liked it yet we all watched on as it became ever more ludicrous .


I'd downloaded all ten episodes anyway, on the grounds that Children of Earth was good.  So it gave me something to watch whilst I was making dinner and suchlike.

It had some entertainment value, it's just that it was massively disappointing and ludicrous in its internal inconsistency.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> I think thats sort of the definition of shoehorned, especially when a flashback method of advancing plot hadn't been used before in the series (or after)



I don't think what method they used as a device matters. I just felt they may have shoehorned in some hot man on man action.. but while it's not my cup of tea, I don't find it offensive. And I thought it was well done.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> None of that actually works though at anything other than the most surface of responses.  They raise more questions than they answer.  Many of the questions that your responses raise have been mentioned in this very thread.
> 
> Oh well, if you're satisfied then so be it, I suppose.  Very few others are.



Beyond that I'm not sure you can expect any tv show to furnish you with a history and justification for every action that takes place. I can't think of any that don't contain similar holes... often much worse. Can you?


----------



## Santino (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> I don't think what method they used as a device matters.


Of course it matters, unless the only reason you watch telly is to feel the light on your face.

A bad plot can be saved by decent story-telling, but that was piss-poor.


----------



## Santino (Sep 16, 2011)

However, I suspect he is only defending it to "wind up" lefties.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh. Missed it again. Can I get a catch up please.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Santino said:


> However, I suspect he is only defending it to "wind up" lefties.



What on earth have lefties got to do with anything?


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 16, 2011)

Santino said:


> Of course it matters, unless the only reason you watch telly is to feel the light on your face.



Why does it matter?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 16, 2011)

GSV made a good point earlier about how it would have worked if it was tight- action films often work on this principle of plot holes you could drive a bus (at 50mph) through but it doesn't matter cos it is crash bang wallop, day saved, fights had and pithy dialouge exchanged. Stretching it like you are using the last bit of butter on some dry toast leaves one feeling unsatisfied. Which is why I sacked it off when I realised that they were going to keep doing episodes where nothing happened and when it did you'd had enough time to consider how stupid it was. Imagin Con Air stretched out to the length of extended version LOTR. It just doesn't work, you can railroad the audience through a shit plot with good lines and relentless pacing. Give em time to think, well then you have to have some substance.

I ended up sacking it to watch Jeremy Irons veer between kindly old father and rutheless cunt in Borgias. And that had a much better homoerotic scene in it as well.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Why does it matter?



do you not read or watch films or anything?

Imagine if someone was telling you a joke then suddenly just before the punch line adds something really important they had forgotten to include because otherwise the joke wouldn't make sense, the flashback was like that.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

A duck walks into a bar and orders a pint

the barman looks astounded and says 'your a talking duck' , the duck looks at the barman and replies 'of course I'm a talking duck , how else do you think I'm going to order a beer' . So the duck drinks his beer and waddles off.
The next day the same thing happens , and the day after that and the day after that.
The next day a clown walks in and asks for a pint , the baraman says to him ' are you from the circus thats just pulled into town' , the clown looks a bit confused and says' of course I am , do you think I dress like a clown for fun' , the barman thinks for a bit and replies ' I guess not , are you always on the look the out for a new act in your circus because I know of one that would bring the crowds in from miles around, I'll mention it to him next time he comes in'. The clown looks ecstatic about this because the circus isn't doing as well as it used to now that x factor is the tv so he is very keen to hear from the barmans amazing act.

Later that day the duck comes in for his pint and the barman says to him ' I have the perfect job opportunity for you, you know that circus thats just pulled into town you could get a job there and you would make loads of money'

The duck looks at the barman in what can onlt be described as a puzzled expression ' the circus? you mean that big canvas tent over in the empty field'

The barman says 'of course thats the only circus in town.

So the duck looks at him, I forgot to mention the duck was working on the building site opposite the pub and he was coming in for a lunchtime pint each day, and says ' but why would they need a plasterer'


----------



## strung out (Sep 16, 2011)




----------



## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> A duck walks into a bar and orders a pint
> 
> the barman looks astounded and says 'your a talking duck' , the duck looks at the barman and replies 'of course I'm a talking duck , how else do you think I'm going to order a beer' . So the duck drinks his beer and waddles off.
> The next day the same thing happens , and the day after that and the day after that.
> ...


Brilliant.


----------



## Stigmata (Sep 16, 2011)

Just watched the last one. I actually enjoyed it. Picked up the pace a bit, no new storylines that went nowhere, and some special effects and alien stuff. THAT'S ALL I ASK FOR RUSSELL WOTSIT


----------



## Iguana (Sep 16, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> I think thats sort of the definition of shoehorned, especially when a flashback method of advancing plot hadn't been used before in the series (or after)



Yeah it had.  Torchwood has always been in part about Jack's past and how the flashbacks we see relate to the episode they are in.

In series 1 we saw Jack as a soldier in 1909.  In Series 2 we saw flashbacks to Jack and Grey on their home planet as children.  We also saw what happened when Jack first got back to earth in 1869 after leaving Satellite 5, how he ended up in Torchwood, how he interacted with the previous Torchwood team, how they were all killed and how Tosh, Owen and Ianto were recruited.  We also saw brief shots in Series 3 of Jack bringing the first 12 children to the 456.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 16, 2011)

Santino said:


> Of course it matters, unless the only reason you watch telly is to feel the light on your face.


 
That is strange. Should I feel the light on my face when I watch TV? Mine doesn't have that effect. Perhaps I need to adjust it in some way; at least it would give me a reason to leave it on when the programmes turn to crap.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 16, 2011)

Iguana said:


> Yeah it had. Torchwood has always been in part about Jack's past and how the flashbacks we see relate to the episode they are in.
> 
> In series 1 we saw Jack as a soldier in 1909. In Series 2 we saw flashbacks to Jack and Grey on their home planet as children. We also saw what happened when Jack first got back to earth in 1869 after leaving Satellite 5, how he ended up in Torchwood, how he interacted with the previous Torchwood team, how they were all killed and how Tosh, Owen and Ianto were recruited. We also saw brief shots in Series 3 of Jack bringing the first 12 children to the 456.



I was talking specifically about this series though, they would have been better spreading the flashbacks over the series leaving you guessing on their significance rather than just putting in 1 episode of pretty much all flashback just before the first part of that the flashback becomes significant. It's not the flashback I have a problem with it's how they used it that was poor storytelling.

Like the joke example I gave, the information given about the duck working on a building site can be mentioned at the start of the joke in a way that it doesn't seem too significant then as the joke goes on it's meaning becomes apparent. If the detail about the duck being a plasterer is revealed just before the punchline the joke is the same but it doesn't work as well.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 17, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> Only 1 person seems to have liked it .



I know two other people who watched because they enjoyed it,so at least there are four of us who are not wittering on about the dissatisfaction of watching something we were not enjoying.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 17, 2011)

wish to see those people photographed with a copy of the days Times and a sign saying 'i loved torchwood' or else I shall have to consider you to be inventing imaginary support for your laughable claim that anyone really enjoyed this latest series


----------



## mentalchik (Sep 17, 2011)

It was meh,

could have been condensed into about three episodes which would have made it more exciting..........more padding than a really padded thing


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 17, 2011)

Saw the final episode last night - it was fucking awful.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 17, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> That is strange. Should I feel the light on my face when I watch TV? Mine doesn't have that effect. Perhaps I need to adjust it in some way; at least it would give me a reason to leave it on when the programmes turn to crap.



I have a feeling Santino sits *really* close to the telly... it's very possibly the closest thing to sunlight he ever sees...


----------



## PlaidDragon (Sep 17, 2011)

Ok... I'll admit it. I enjoyed it!


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 17, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> do you not read or watch films or anything?
> 
> Imagine if someone was telling you a joke then suddenly just before the punch line adds something really important they had forgotten to include because otherwise the joke wouldn't make sense, the flashback was like that.



Except it was halfway through the series... which was a fairly natural point to introduce the subplot.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 17, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> I was talking specifically about this series though, they would have been better spreading the flashbacks over the series leaving you guessing on their significance rather than just putting in 1 episode of pretty much all flashback just before the first part of that the flashback becomes significant. It's not the flashback I have a problem with it's how they used it that was poor storytelling.
> 
> Like the joke example I gave, the information given about the duck working on a building site can be mentioned at the start of the joke in a way that it doesn't seem too significant then as the joke goes on it's meaning becomes apparent. If the detail about the duck being a plasterer is revealed just before the punchline the joke is the same but it doesn't work as well.



An Englishman, an Irish man and Scotsman are all doing something.

The Englishman says something clever, the scotsman says something drink related and the Irishman says something dumb and ends up with a pineapple up his bum.


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 17, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Except it was halfway through the series... which was a fairly natural point to introduce the subplot.



It was episode seven - a bit more than halfway to be fair.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 17, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Except it was halfway through the series... which was a fairly natural point to introduce the subplot.



but it wasn't a sub-plot, it was the information that the entire series relied on, how the families got the blood to create the miracle, I think the fact that you see it as a sub-plot really highlights the failure in the story telling that you can't identify what is important plot and what is filler sub-plot.


----------



## Kizmet (Sep 17, 2011)

No more important than how the families discovered the blessing... which was covered in a single paragraph in the final show.


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 17, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> No more important than how the families discovered the blessing... which was covered in a single paragraph in the final show.



Now your getting it, the massive questions about how and why are just glossed over or tackled badly and there is loads of filler that was pointless.


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## Kizmet (Sep 17, 2011)

The difference being it didn't affect how much I enjoyed the show... whereas something like "lost" lost me after the first few episodes when it became clear that it was never gonna end.

I guess I don't always expect a tv series to tie up all loose ends and explain every detail... as long as the story continues to grip me and I enjoy each individual episode for what it is.


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## Stigmata (Sep 17, 2011)

If I was to rate this series i'd give it a C or thereabouts, but I still hope they get another shot at it. All of Torchwood's flaws are forgiveable, except for being dull which it was at times during this run. I hope RTD et al take it on board that a longer series isn't necessarily a good thing and come up with something a bit more refined. And no more sideplots about Gwen's boring family- that's another idea they pinched off 24 and it was rubbish on that show too.


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## Kizmet (Sep 17, 2011)

I liked that bit a lot. Particularly meaningful, I felt. Killing her own father? Intense.


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## Termite Man (Sep 17, 2011)

I've just thought of a good example of how I think the flashbacks should have been done 

they should have been done in a similar way to the how the highlander flashbacks were done. That would have been much better and they could have 2 different times for filler and develop Angelo (or whatever the lover was called) as a better character.


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## strung out (Sep 17, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> I liked that bit a lot. Particularly meaningful, I felt. Killing her own father? Intense.


intense in a kind of teenage 'woah that is so intense man' way. it just wasn't believable.


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## London_Calling (Sep 17, 2011)

TOp TiP!!1! It made a lot more sense when you replaced 'bleh, bleh bleh the blessing' with 'bleh, bleh bleh brian blessed'


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## ginger_syn (Sep 18, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> wish to see those people photographed with a copy of the days Times and a sign saying 'i loved torchwood' or else I shall have to consider you to be inventing imaginary support for your laughable claim that anyone really enjoyed this latest series



you made me laugh.


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## Augie March (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm thinking that the whole series was a parable about suicide bombers, judging by the amount of times people blew themselves up in it.


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## Kizmet (Sep 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> wish to see those people photographed with a copy of the days Times and a sign saying 'i loved torchwood' or else I shall have to consider you to be inventing imaginary support for your laughable claim that anyone really enjoyed this latest series



I'll have you know I ditched this post just over halfway through and I was right to do so...


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## belboid (Sep 19, 2011)

finally caught up with this last night, and, mmm, well it was rubbish wasn't it?  None of it really made coherent sense, there were clear issues with the two production companies having different styles, pacing etc. But it was largely entertaining tosh too, with enough good bits to get by. I was surprised at who survived in the end, tho it would have been better to keep Charlotte in another series. That Danes topped himself whilst proudly exclaiming his continued _paedophilia_ was marvellous.

If they do do a follow up series, they really should work out the plot properly tho.


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## strung out (Sep 19, 2011)

from what i hear, RTD isn't banking on another series. i agree with you btw, entertaining rubbish.


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## QueenOfGoths (Sep 19, 2011)

Yeah - entertaining tosh, not great, full of holes but it kept me interested, more or less. And I thought Bill Pullman was very good.


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## Stigmata (Sep 19, 2011)

belboid said:


> That Danes topped himself whilst proudly exclaiming his continued _paedophilia_ was marvellous.



His mad ranting was a definite highlight


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## scifisam (Sep 19, 2011)

I finally got a chance to watch the rest, and I really enjoyed it; I'm kinda glad now that I wasn't reading along with thread.

What I liked most about it was the same as with CoE: the fairly realistic depictions of how a world would cope with this kind of change. How some people would be bastards because they're just doing their job, how some horrible decisions would be made because the alternative was worse, how it would affect the global economy, that sort of thing. Some scifi shows seem to have amazing things happen in a bubble of main characters while the world carries on like normal outside, and this show shows the world outside the bubble.

Termite Man has a good solution to the flashback sequence - what made it boring really was having a third of an episode dedicated to it. It still could have been a lot shorter.

Answering the questions that were listed on the previous page (I copied them, but they copied as a picture for some reason, so I can't write in between each question):

The stuff being sent to Rex's phone at just the right moment, dramatically: yeah, that's a bit crap, but it's not some random guy texting him - it's that they finally retrieved the stuff after the explosion.

The three families could have continued living like aristocracy in a world of much 'better' people where they and they alone had control over who lived and died. What do you give to a man who's got everything and still wants more? Power over life and death for the entire world. I don't see that as implausible at all. ABSOLUTE POWER!!!

I have no answer about Danes. That didn't make any sense, I agree. The only explanations I can think of are too fan-wanky. I think he was there for Jack to have another child-killer to emote with.

The families had basically experimented on the blessing (Jack's words) using Jack's blood. It's feasible that they'd know how to stop the blessing if they chose to.

The death camps helped the families by getting rid of, well, the dead, which had to be done at some point (at least for the actually dead, rather than really ill), and changing people's whole way of thinking about what 'life' means, and exerting control. Once you've conceded to sending grandpa off to be burnt alive you're going to be more likely to do other things that you previously considered wrong.

Stockpiling painkillers would be a lot, in a world with unending pain and no death, but they owned a pharmaceutical company and had enough money and influence to own a lot of others, so that was probably just an example of one of many things they already owned. Also, they had control of the blessing.

The director of the CIA not being in a particular CIA office all the time does make sense. Why would he be there all the time? He's the director of the CIA, not that field office - and he only came in when the man responsible for that office 'died.'


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## Kizmet (Sep 19, 2011)

"It just wasn't believable that the core of the earth contains a blessing that programs a morphic field to regulate all human life that can be reprogrammed for immortality... the science was full of holes."


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## scifisam (Sep 19, 2011)

Stigmata said:


> His mad ranting was a definite highlight



I liked that they didn't redeem him. I'm fed up of really bad guys being redeemed by one final good act, as if it counted more than all the rest. He'd seen hell and wanted to go there because all the bad girls were there. 

But I've always liked him as an actor since loving Spaceballs as a kid.


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## Augie March (Sep 19, 2011)

It was a high point for him, which only adds to the disappointment that he was mostly wasted because the writers didn't seem to know what to do with him half the time.


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## Balbi (Sep 19, 2011)

I see RTD still hasn't got past using 'what' as a substitute for closing dialogue


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## scifisam (Sep 20, 2011)

Intentional dp because for some reason the board won't let me quote otherwise and I can't find a way to delete this post.


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## scifisam (Sep 20, 2011)

Balbi said:


> I see RTD still hasn't got past using 'what' as a substitute for closing dialogue



RTD isn't writing this series.


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## Balbi (Sep 20, 2011)

He wrote the first ep, and co-wrote the finale.


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## Pseudopsycho (Sep 20, 2011)

Balbi said:


> I see RTD still hasn't got past using 'what' as a substitute for closing dialogue


at least he's not put "lol! Wut?" as the final words yet


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## Gromit (Sep 21, 2011)

scifisam said:


> I liked that they didn't redeem him. I'm fed up of really bad guys being redeemed by one final good act, as if it counted more than all the rest. He'd seen hell and wanted to go there because all the bad girls were there.
> 
> But I've always liked him as an actor since loving Spaceballs as a kid.



Omg I saw Spaceballs last week and never put two and two together. 

He's so different now.


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## Stigmata (Sep 21, 2011)

He was actually pretty good as Danes. He was just badly written and mostly superfluous.


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## Augie March (Sep 22, 2011)

Badly written and mostly superfluous pretty much sums up the whole series really.


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## ddraig (Dec 8, 2011)

strung out said:


> from what i hear, RTD isn't banking on another series. i agree with you btw, entertaining rubbish.


he has stopped his career for now
fair play to him, hope his partner gets better
http://sciencefiction.com/2011/12/0...-career-on-hold-is-this-the-end-of-torchwood/


> In August, while on a short vacation back in England, Smith decided to see a doctor who diagnosed him with brain cancer and three days later underwent surgery. Almost immediately, Davies shut down his Hollywood life. “The lives we had in LA just sort of closed down overnight. All of my stuff, my computers and clothes were over there. We had to have everything shipped over here in crates. We were lucky we never sold our house in Manchester. Lo and behold we’re now a ten minute drive from Europe’s best cancer hospital.”
> Davies now spends his time keeping Smith company. With regards to his work, Davies states:
> 
> “I’ve stopped work. I haven’t worked since August. We’re lucky we’ve got enough money in the bank that, if need be, I can take the whole of next year off… People keep asking me if I’ve really stopped working. I used to work so hard you see, they think I must be secretly working on something, but I’m not. It was a simple decision: he’s more important. Who gives a f**k about writing scripts if I can stay at home with him and make his day a bit happier? I don’t know when I’ll start work again. I’ve got to see how Andrew’s health goes”


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## kabbes (Dec 9, 2011)

Blimey.  I really hope things work out for them both.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2011)

I didn't even know there was such a thing as brain cancer. Hope his man is alright. People like to hate on RTD but I think he still did the business when on form and could do again if personal tragedy doesn't keep him out of the game


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## Bungle73 (Dec 9, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I didn't even know there was such a thing as brain cancer


Brain tumour??


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