# A thread of wrestling



## kained&able (Jan 9, 2010)

So big changes in the world of wrestling this week. With lots of opportunity to geek out and who knows the monday night wars might be back on!!

Tna is now partly owned by Hogan who paraded his friends across our screens, which was fairly cool, hopefully they wont be there for too long though and TNA can get back to doing what it does best. Lots of people doing flip dives! Looks like TNA will be getting bigger sooner, lets just hope everyone has learned thier lessons from the WCW days. It has some amazing perfromers and amazing womens divsion and actually caters for roughly what i want to watch, which is nice.

WWE responded by bringing bret hart back for a month or so. Loved the stuff with shawn, the stuff with Vince was silly though.

Tis exciting times to be a wrestling fan.


Anyone going to any of the TNA events laters this month?? Reckon i'm heading to Cov. Shuld be a laugh.


dave


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## Forum Lout (Jan 9, 2010)

That pretentious shite doesn't interest me.


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## handy1 (Jan 9, 2010)

Sorry mate,biggest load of shite ever.


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## Cid (Jan 9, 2010)

You do know it's all fake don't you?


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## turing test (Jan 9, 2010)

I read a great book about the wrestling.  Classy Freddie Blassie

The testosterone injections came with the book! I won 8 matches after reading it. His song is cool too Pencil Neck Geeks.

http://www.amazon.com/Legends-Wrest...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1263041849&sr=1-1-fkmr0


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## al (Jan 11, 2010)

handy1 said:


> Sorry mate,biggest load of shite ever.





> You do know it's all fake don't you?



Of course it's fixed (in the sense that the results are decided beforehand), however those that offhandedly pooh-pooh it might think differently if they watched "Beyond the mat" - a very good documentary...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_the_Mat

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0218043/


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## Sesquipedalian (Jan 11, 2010)

Has anyone got a link to the 2010 Female World Mud Wrestling Championships ?


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## liquidlunch (Jan 11, 2010)




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## tarannau (Jan 11, 2010)

Surely this should be in the teenage entertainments forum. Or surely this play acting stuff is more similar to football than most other sports.

This is no more a sport than synchronised donkey arranging. There's skill in getting those asses to move mind.


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## El Sueno (Jan 11, 2010)

yehyehyeh... gymnastics isn't a sport either, it's just people dancing 

I haven't watched wrestling in ages, ever since WWE brought back the ECW brand and did a big brown shit on it, just to piss off all the original fans. So k&a, what's the deal with Brett Hart returning? Is he gonna feud with Shawn, are they bringing back the whole screw-job angle or how are they playing it out?

And what good could possibly come of Hogan putting his name to anything, least of all TNA which needs to cut loose the old-timers once & for all if they're to ever compete.


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## 100% masahiko (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm sorry...but a wrestling thread should be about real wrestling...



(watch on mute - who did that music?)


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## kained&able (Jan 11, 2010)

Not sure whats going on with bret. Shawn and him have done the heartfealt apology and mccmahon did the same and then mcmashon kicked him in the nuts.

We will see what happens, stu hart is going into the hall of fame at wrestlemania weekend though so i'm guessing there will be some sort of angle between bret and vince there. Hopefully he will come in and be a mouth piece for the hart dynasty(the anvils daughter, davey smiths daughter & tyson kid who was the last person trained at the dungeon and is engaged to natalie neidhart). I can't really be arsed with wwe, only bother with PPVs and the odd amazing sounding show(which is rare) but may well watch the bret stuff 

Hogan has come in to RUN Tna rather then wrestle. We shall see how that all works. Certainly gives em a lot of exposure, Bischoff has come in with him as well onto the management side of things. If they have learnt there lessons from WCW hen it could be a good thing, it only happend last week though so its difficult to work out what is going on. AJ styles was put over massively by everyone though so we shall see.

A few very old people came in for the hogan debut(xpac/hall/flair/nasty boys) but hopefully they are just there to nick a few viewers from wwe(and the odd dream match, sting vs falir, nasty boys vs dudley boys etc) and then will fuck off again and leave it to shelly, aj, daniels, joe etc, migel mcguiness(watch his first match with kurt angle, oh my god it was good!!!).

Intresting times.

Oh and i am very aware that wrestling is fake/staged. So are films and guess what i enjoy watching them. The only difference is wrestling is done full speed and in one take.


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## tommers (Jan 11, 2010)

Dave - you know it's fake yeah?


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## kained&able (Jan 11, 2010)

you know your missus fakes it yeah?

and you still enjoy it, so where is the problem.

dave


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## tommers (Jan 11, 2010)

kained&able said:


> you know your missus fakes it yeah?
> 
> and you still enjoy it, so where is the problem.





I was taking the piss dave, and not out of you.


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## kained&able (Jan 11, 2010)

fair enough, i was taking the piss out of them and not you then mr tommers!


dave


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## El Sueno (Jan 11, 2010)

kained&able said:


> Intresting times.



Indeed - didn't realise McGuinness had jumped from ROH, sounds promising. But any company which employs Hogan in _any _capacity is doomed... with a fingerpoke. His booking is worse than his wrestling, and that's saying something.


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## kained&able (Jan 11, 2010)

yeah nige is now called desmond wolfe. So far only had matches with angle really but they have been very good. The  one at turning point is the best match i have seen for a long long time.

Brian danielson has jumped to wwe. Not worked a match yet though. Presumably you also don't know cm punk has gone wwe(couple of brief runs as heaveyweight champion). He was getting a big push but they have booked him weirdly last few months.

dabe


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## Part 2 (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm off to TNA with the little un and his mate.

I can't profess to be a big fan or even know what's going on a lot of the time and I hate all the fake aggro out of the ring stuff. 

I love crowds though and the athleticism/skill of some wrestlers is to be respected. Noticed WWE is on at Manchester too but cheapest tickets left are over £50, I'd love to see Rey Mysterio but not at that price.


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## El Sueno (Jan 13, 2010)

kained&able said:


> yeah nige is now called desmond wolfe. So far only had matches with angle really but they have been very good. The  one at turning point is the best match i have seen for a long long time.
> 
> Brian danielson has jumped to wwe. Not worked a match yet though. Presumably you also don't know cm punk has gone wwe(couple of brief runs as heaveyweight champion). He was getting a big push but they have booked him weirdly last few months.
> 
> dabe



I remember when Punk turned up on the 'new ECW', the got his 'money in the bank' title shot pretty cheaply and presumed he'd been buried ever since he gave it up... I guess I should tune in just to see what the fuck is going on in the world of wrestling once in a while, there's usually something worth seeing along with all the utterly missable shite in between.


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## kained&able (Jan 13, 2010)

samckdown is better then raw at the minute in my opinion wwe wise. Like i said though can only really be bothered with PPV although means i miss all the up and coming people that i'm usually more bothered by, but then again  watching matt sydel job every week gets a bit boring.

Raw has lots of annoying things going on. Like a PG DX. A leprechaun and no GM but instead an endless stream of celeb hosts plugging things. Oh and cena and orton getting ran constantly which is really really lame.

If you know your british promotions. Sean O'shanessy(i think SOS anyway) the irish dude is current wwe champion, which is quite amusing. Clearly going to drop the title at royal rumble or whatever the  ppv after that is but still kinda cool.

TNA still run far far to many gimmick matches for my liking but other that and the odd weird booking decsion it is much more the style of wrestling i like watching.

ROH has dropped off my radar a bit.


dave


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## tarannau (Jan 13, 2010)

You are clearly too old for this Dave. I know West Ham are having lean times, but this seems a little like teenage regression.


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## kained&able (Jan 13, 2010)

regression? I never stopped following wrestling.

Some poeple wtach big brother & xfactor and shite like that. I watch wrestling.


dave


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## tarannau (Jan 13, 2010)

It comes to scomething when you can say that Big Brother is less staged and artificial than a supposed 'sport'


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## kained&able (Jan 13, 2010)

I don't thinks pro wrestling is an actual sport! I'm not 8.

Just fits better in here then in TV.





dave


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## Sadken (Jan 13, 2010)

Vince McMahon kicked Bret Hart in the bollocks?  LOL.

Incidentally, I reckon K&A knows full well wrestling isn't real, just like Coronation Street isn't, or Premier League football.  I've never understood why somebody who says they like wrestling automatically has to get people making spaz noises at them and treating them like an idiot.  We like what we like, end of.  And I haven't followed wrestling for donkey's years, so I've got no self interest in saying that.


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## elbows (Jan 23, 2010)

Snobbishness about wrestling always makes me chrotly, its a bit like the early days of tv where the BBC wanted to make the masses have finer tastes by feeding them highbrow content, and then ITV came along and gave people the common entertainment they wanted. Each to their own, personally wrestling is my equivalent of watching a crappy soap on tv, with the added benefit of energy from the audience, some car-crash moments when its live, plenty of behind the scenes drama and tragedy, plenty of politics, failure to be politically correct, etc. I preferred the product back when there were more people who were genuinely funny or charismatic, and in the late 80's and early 90's when there were more nutters off their face on drugs being wacky and less scripted, but I still watch it a bit these days.

The Hogan Bischoff era of TNA is proving to be a bit amusing & different, they have had some problems with sections of the audience chanting things they didnt expect, eg moaning about the loss of the six sided ring, booing the wrong people and swearing, and various established TNA roster members have lost their spot or jobs. Throw in some silly controversy with Bubba the Love sponge making bad comments about Haiti and Awesome Kong punching him and asking for her release, along with AJ Styles turning into the new Nature Boy (Flairs increasing baldness sad to see), Scott Hall looking horrible, Nasty Boy Knobs being hideously large, Jeff Hardy only being at the PPV (possibly due to lots of legal problems over drugs), and characters like Orlando Jordan and Val Venus being put over at the expense of decent traditional TNA talent, and the whole thing is a bit messy but kinda interesting. Angelina Love is back but feuding with the Beautiful People instead of rejoining them, not sure about that choice. At least they have about half a dozen people with charisma now, though the actual wrestling may suffer badly unless the Total Nonstop Arthritis crew are only around for a short time. Impact is a bit more watchable now, the pace is better and the storylines a bit more traditional rather than OTT Vince Russo stupidity. Anyway the main storyline seems to be building towards Hogan, Bischoff & friends versus Foley, Jarrett and various others from the TNA old-guard. I wont spoil this weeks impact in case there is anyone going to watch it tonight, but they repeat a classic storyline from WWE days, not sure why but maybe it will work.

As for WWE, it still bores me, I will watch Raw when there is a decent guest host on, speaking of which Cheech and Chong are hosting on March 1st! Might be awful but generally I find wrestling to be even more compelling when it is hideous car-wreck tv.


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## elbows (Jan 23, 2010)

Oh and gotta be careful not to get worked by TNA at the moment - I think they are trying to incorporate some of the TNA fans reaction against change into the storylines, and its gets quite blurry as to whether the removal of Borash from tv is a shoot or a work, and they would probably like to turn the Kong Bubba stuff into a sotry too, which will probably be horrible but is better than Kong leaving TNA which is another possible outcome. Twitter is awash with much silliness and only time will tell whether TNA can turn this isnto a sucessfull business/promotion strategy or whether they just come off as crap and repeat mistakes from WCW.


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## kained&able (Jan 24, 2010)

Yeah im trying to work out the borash thing too. I reckon he might be going the way of don west and getting a new job being in charge of the website or something. I know he is on the current tour of the UK though.

The last PPV was a complete write off, don't know why they bothered to be honest they only had a week to build it, which was never enough time. Val venis over chris daniels disgusted me. I mean really?

Orlando jordon needs to fuck off, although my suspicion is he and dinero will be a tag team before too long.

Nasty boys need to do the lil feud with the dudleys and then retire. Although the match they had with nash/young wasn't useless which surprised me.

Good to see kenedy back, i was very suprised when he got released by wwe. I think Vince just got pissed off with him mucking up the whole son story line thing. I reckon he will regret that one.

Got no real problem with ms love feuding with beautiful people, velevt especially has stepped up and can't really go back to being a lacky for her. Kong leaving if it is true would be lame, they also lost allisa flash this wek, which is a shame.

Got no problem with the ring being changed at all.

I'm looking forward to seeing flair and sting battle it out for the soul of AJ that should be most entertaining, must surely be the plan.

That generation me vs machine guns match on impact was sweeeet. Most impressive. Also i noticed on the new impact credits they showed the candian destroyer(best finisher ever!) so i reckon petey williams is coming back soon. He was great.

It has been interesting so far, its very much in a transitional phase and its a case of wait and see i guess.

Cheech and chong could be cool on raw but on the other hand PG, how is that going to work? The most annoying thing about not watching wwe much anymore is missing morrsion and punk on smackdown. Punk is amazing and morrison has the chance to be somthing truely special.


dave


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## Part 2 (Jan 24, 2010)

dave

I read your posts and I really haven't got a clue.

what basics should I know before going to the show in manchester this friday?


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## kained&able (Jan 24, 2010)

Ummm

Being drunk helps(although not if your supervising i guess)! Suspend your belief of reality this is a jackie chan fight scene not the olympics.

Ummm

A win occurs by either pinfall(shoulders held down on the mat for a 3 count) a disqualification or a count out(10 second outside the ring, fairly rarely enforced). Unless otherwise stipulated, some matches may be no DQ or something.

You get a ridiculously cool match. 5 man ladder match! Which is won  by a wrestler climbing a ladder and hanging the title belt on a hook. I am jealous of how great this match will be.

Ummm

Crowd will be loud and shouty!

To be honest you don't need to know much, just look at the funny men pretending to hit each other(most of the time) and doing cool flips and stuff. 
You don't need to know, in fact it is better you don't know, keeps the santa claus myth intact for the young uns(even if they know/suspect it is fake they probably won't understand what is and isn't and how it all works)

Boo the heels(baddies) unless they are english obviously. Cheer the faces(goodies) and despite it all being fairly panto don't yell he's behind you, you will get strange looks. Panto mixed with action film is the way to think of it really.

TNA have a load of  matches in their youtube acocunt here, might be worth watching a couple to get a basic idea of what to expect. I highly recommend the ultimate x match that is top of the list(it will be kinda, sorta similer to the ladder match).

dave


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## Part 2 (Jan 24, 2010)

Cheers

I've caught bits of TNA on telly, the between fight acting and posturing stuff is the real turn off point for me but the actual fight bits are entertaining enough and I'm sold on your enthusiasm for the ladder match. 

The kids know it's all faked, they just don't care. I spent a while giving it this when the young un started getting into it but the first time I sat with him and his mate to watch I could see instantly what the attraction for them is.

I do like a bit of people watching too, I expect there'll be plenty of opportunity for that.


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## kained&able (Jan 24, 2010)

Chip Barm said:


> Cheers
> 
> I've caught bits of TNA on telly, the between fight acting and posturing stuff is the real turn off point for me but the actual fight bits are entertaining enough and I'm sold on your enthusiasm for the ladder match.



Yeah i'm never sure if it is taking the piss out the pre fight boxing stuff with that, its obviously trying to make the fights a bit different and to tell a story, most of the time it is shite though and the writers wouldn't get a job on day time soaps in the most part.

You will probably appreciate the live thing more as there wont be ANY back stage crap and i doubt there will be much in ring promos(biggging themselves up or cussing other wrestlers) or anything either, if at all.

dave


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## elbows (Jan 25, 2010)

kained&able said:


> Yeah im trying to work out the borash thing too. I reckon he might be going the way of don west and getting a new job being in charge of the website or something. I know he is on the current tour of the UK though.



Its probably not safe to place any bets when it comes to talent being taken off tv when it is featured in storyline, because quite a bit of it is simply storyline, and even some of the reality may get turned into a storyline or be deliberately ambiguous to keep people guessing. There is also a fair chance that they are trying to turn legitimate hatred of change from some fans into energy and excitement for the big battle for control of TNA that will likely be the main story for months to come, whilst at the same time neatly deflecting criticism of stupid things Hogan & Bischoff are doing by pretending that such reactions from fans are part of the plan. Whether the reality ends up being another death of WCW type debacle remains to be seen, but at least its kinda interesting not being sure what will happen next. Even funnier is that it seems likely they will move to Monday nights permanently at some point, with head-to-head battles having the potential for all sorts of sillyness and surprises.



> Good to see kenedy back, i was very suprised when he got released by wwe. I think Vince just got pissed off with him mucking up the whole son story line thing. I reckon he will regret that one.



Kennedy had several downsides - as well as frequently saying stupid things publically and then getting caught out, along with the terrible timing of it that killed his big career-making angle, what finally did him in was that he is considered careless in the ring - A move he did on Randy Orton threatened to aggrevate a serious inury Orton got a while back, Orton was visibly angry in the ring afterwards, and Kennedy was fired within days. My opinion of Kennedy is mixed because I dont like unsafe workers and he seems to be a bit of an idiot in real life, but his character & banter has something of the goofy ott magic that I liked from late 80's/early 90's wrestling.



> I'm looking forward to seeing flair and sting battle it out for the soul of AJ that should be most entertaining, must surely be the plan.



Yeah that makes sense - I had missed that obvious possibility, phew, sounds a lot better than a silly attempt to really make AJ the next nature boy long term.



> Cheech and chong could be cool on raw but on the other hand PG, how is that going to work? The most annoying thing about not watching wwe much anymore is missing morrsion and punk on smackdown. Punk is amazing and morrison has the chance to be somthing truely special.



Yes if there is any WWE worth watching its Smackdown, although William Shatner is coming up as a guest hot on RAW too so I will probably have to check that one out. The PG rating for Raw has made them cut down on the female flesh a bit, and what little 'swearing' (by american tv standards = hardly swearing at all) used to exist is gone, but its still non-pc wrestling and they still send out very mixed messages on subjects such as drugs, so Cheech & Chong may still have some room to do their thing. Both C&C and Shatner have the potential to be quite good or absolutely hideous in the RAW guest roles, not too long till we find out.


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## Part 2 (Jan 30, 2010)

Had a pretty good night all in and the boys loved it.

From what I remember:

amazing red beat suicide and chris somebody in the first match

heavyweight world title rob terry beat eric young

pope beat rhino

angle beat wolfe

two tag team womens match, beautiful people vs some others

aj stiles refused to put the title up for a ladder match which was a bit wank, so it was a 4 man tag fight, he beat daniel, hernandez and samoa joe

team 3d vs beer money vs british invasion was the last fight won by 3d, young un said it was the best bit

There an event on in Manchester today...wrestleslamuk I think, might be OD though


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## kained&able (Feb 2, 2010)

Glad you had fun.

So edge is back!! Wwe doing their normal thing of saying a wrestler will be out much longer then he actually will be. Hope he manages to stay injury free as he is quality.

I look forward to edge vs jericho at wrestlemania this year.

Thought the rumble match was absolutely shite, the punk stuff was cool but other then that it was rubbish, not many surprises and hardly anyone in the ring at once.

Shameus vs orton was dire as well, must have been the slowest match i have ever seen, really hated the ending as well.

dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 18, 2010)

Thank goodness, the WWECW brand is buried and the name will will no longer be sullied by association with dress-up clowns and comedy villlians. Oh and mediocre-at-best wrestling. Now I can wear my old ECW tee again without people assuming I'm a moron (yes I realise people will still assume I'm a moron for wearing a wrestling-related tee, but hopefully those within the wrestling community will think twice!). 

Sure they had some okay workers who got a springboard up the ladder but wouldn't they have been better suited pushing up through the ranks on Raw or SD? Did we get any real character development or properly worked, long-term angles? The brand had no identity of its own, which was shocking considering the heritage they had at their disposal to create something exciting and alternative for the fans. The WWE version was just a thoughtless, rudderless cash-in.

The new replacement show is gonna be called WWE NXT:-

“Once again, WWE will bring something entirely new to the television landscape as WWE meets reality TV,” said Vince McMahon, Chairman and CEO

Erm, the reality-tv boom happened a full TEN YEARS AGO Vince. Maybe you should stop guzzling steroids, get out of the gym once in a while and actually watch some telly, time is passing you by old man.

Seriously, what in fuck is 'entirely new' about this?! It's the laziest concept imaginable... but then WWE creatives haven't had a fresh idea in two decades. I'm just happy the initials ECW can finally be left to rest in peace.


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## kained&able (Feb 18, 2010)

I don't really get NXT, so its older pros mentoring young uns from FCW while they try and earn a real WWE contract.

Although i think brian danielson(yes THE brian danielson) & miz could be kinda amusing, hopefully miz will get cocky and american dragon will just break his neck or something.

Other then that i'm just confused, will download the first episode just to see what is happening but im not very hopeful.

I hope shelton benjamin and christian finally get the pushes they deserve following the demise of wweecw, it is a joke that neither of em have risen above midcard.


dave


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## futha (Feb 18, 2010)

Cid said:


> You do know it's all fake don't you?



I am not a massive wrestling fan at all but surely this is missing the point. Bit like watching a film and then saying at the end, erm you know this was fake right. It is just entertainment. Only 10 year olds believe it is actually real surely!


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## elbows (Feb 19, 2010)

WWE NXT may not be an amazingly original idea but they may as well give it a go - UFCs Ultimate Fighter still does ok, and its been some years since tough enough. Plus they werent doing anything else useful with that timeslot, I stopped watching ECW months ago.

What will they do with Tiffany and her amazingly wooden & robotic delivery of lines?

Meanwhile on TNA it is going pretty much as might be expected - better than the pre-Hogan TNA in some ways (better pace, less plot holes), worse in some others (some good wrestlers not getting pushed, some crap old talent getting tv time). The AJ-Flair stuff remains a mixed bag, fun in some ways but maybe not the best use of Flair or AJ going forwards. Meanwhile their ratings are pretty much back to where they were pre-Hogan, which will be alarming to them, although we'll just have to see what happens when they move to Monday nights going head-to-head with RAW in the USA (starting March 8th).

TNAs pay-per-views not as good as pre-Hogan era, if that trend lasts I shall lose all interest in them. Also the quality of the Internet version of the ppv (for uk & other people who cant get it any other way legitimately) was very bad live, almost unwatchable, I should of asked for my money back it was so bad, but I put up with it because at least there was a live chat and some people there were funny. Many of the matches were too short, and the Nasty Boys match was absolutely horrible. Mr Anderson is living up to form by being great on the mic but having matches that are boring if they arent very short - so having him in 3 matches on the ppv was a mistake. At least they put the pope over on the ppv.

Already getting bored of Bischoff, they have used him too much on TV already.


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## elbows (Feb 19, 2010)

WWE doing better on Raw & Smackdown lately - Shaun losing mind over the Undertaker stuff has been good, Batista heel turn has worked out good in the end, Bret Hart stuff has been very good some weeks, not so great on others. They have some work to do to get the announcing teams better. Punk & Co has been good, Layla El is great when being goofy, as is Maryse, rest of the Womens storylines & most matches have been horrible as usual. Im glad they are pushing R Truth but still sad to see how most of the younger talent has been badly booked.Its funny to see how great the Miz and John Morrison have become in the ring as neither were much cop when they started out, though theyve always been quite good on the promo side.


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## elbows (Feb 19, 2010)

Oh and Shatners guest host spot on RAW some weeks ago went down well with me when they got him to sing:


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## kained&able (Feb 19, 2010)

Tna impact is definitely getting better, i'm not shocked the PPV's have suffered a bit though as they still really haven't had enough time to switch peoples gimmicks around and build decent feuds.

I really enjoyed the 8 card stud king of the ring thing though and disagree about anderson, he maybe fairly limited moves wise but i have had no problem with any of his matches thus far.

I really hope they are going somewhere with this constant jobbing of daniels. he is far far too good to be a mid carder. 

Nasty boys is just laughable and i really hope Orlando jordon fucks off as well.

RVD is about to sign which is amazing, im guessing he wil be brought in march 8th for the switch to Mondays. It is also good to see kaz wrestling as himself again, always liked him.

Not been watching much wwe, but morrison is clearly one of the next stars of wrestling. My only problem is some of his silly break dancey moves he does, just stop it, no point doing a fancy leg drop if it looks weak compared to a normal one. I really should watch smackdown more often. Is jericho there now or did they end up keeping him on raw?


dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 23, 2010)

kained&able said:


> RVD is about to sign which is amazing, im guessing he wil be brought in march 8th for the switch to Mondays.



That is pretty exciting. RVD is a proper talent.


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## elbows (Feb 23, 2010)

Undertaker was burnt a bit in a pyro malfunction and Flairs latest wife got arrested for physically abusing him. Orlando Jordan is going to do a bisexual gimmick (based on his real life orientation) unless they get cold feet. I havent heard 100% confirmation of RVD but it would not surprise me and he is Mr Monday Night.


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## kained&able (Feb 23, 2010)

OJ was being accompanied to the ring by both a female and male valet on last weeks impact and tazz made reference to him liking to hang round in night clubs, which must be a euphemism that got lost in translation or something.

Read bout the taker thing, not watched the ppv from sunday yet though. 

Watched smackdown this week, twas pretty damn good, might have to do that a bit more often. Basicly everyone i give a fuck about is on smackdown now, so hurrah. Just need shawn micheals to switch for the inevitable programme with undertaker and i think that is everyone. Oh and christian would be a good thing.


dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 24, 2010)

Hey Dave where'd you hear the news about RVD's imminent signing for TNA, got a source on that?


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## kained&able (Feb 24, 2010)

http://www.pwmania.com/newsarticle.php?page=267262107  said:
			
		

> If you missed this week’s RVD RADIO episode, you missed a GIGANTIC surprise!
> 
> While I was hosting the show I got a phone call from Hulk Hogan, who agreed to talk to me on the air. Hulkster stayed on the show for a long time, telling me how much he’d love to have me in TNA! Hogan coming on MY show to tell me that he wants me in TNA was a pretty good stroke for my ego. Callers got to ask him some questions and so did I. His message was full of optimism and he didn’t duck anything that was thrown at him.
> 
> Our topic was FEAR, which everyone can relate to. Well, everyone but Fonzie, apparently. It was super cool to have Hulk Hogan on my show and we’ll all know very soon, if anything comes from the conversation about RVD and TNA.



Also he has wrestled the odd PWG(i think it was them, one of the larger indies anyway)show recently which sounds like a getting back to match fitness.

I haven't read anything definitive but it seems quite likely.


dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 24, 2010)

Cheers Dave. Mr Monday Night on TNA... Bischoff is gonna be one smug mofo if he pulls this off.


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## kained&able (Feb 25, 2010)

watched NXT last night.

It is a strange concept really, the idea of pretending it is a reality tv show makes me uncomfortable and i don't get if people will be eliminated or voted off or if only one of em gets a contract or what, it will need a lot of refining. A few of the rookies look the part though and miz/american dragon could be amusing. Danielson had a very good match with jericho as the main event. WWE even let him do a suicide dive which is rare!!

Think it will be a case of if danielson(and probabley loki for the 2nd series) is doing something interesting i shall watch if not then i won't.


dave


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## elbows (Feb 25, 2010)

I dont think they have quite worked out the format for the show yet, which could be why they didnt clarify the rules yet, certainly there were not many reality show aspects to the first episode. Im not at all sure about some of the geeks they have on the show, there are some very strange haircuts for a start, and a Brit with a cape. Danielson & The Miz saved the first episode, not sure why they bothered changing Danielsons name if they are going to keep referring to his past feats as a wrestler.

It didnt get a very high rating considering how much they hyped the first show, I shall watch it again to see where it goes but may not end up watching it any more than I did ECW.

Its not a good time for TNA to be trying to compete with WWE as WWE seem to have finally remembered how to book stuff properly - the buildup to Wrestlemania is being done very well, although they still need to get more younger guys over as main eventers especially as a few of the old guys have very little time left before their bodies force them to give up fulltime wrestling (eg Undertaker & Michaels).

Its hard to know what TNA could do to get to the next level, Im not sure the interest in wrestling in general is high enough, WWE is a marketing machine, and TNA isnt very good at building great storylines nice and slowly. Things are better with the new regime but I still dont get a sense that they have a load of great ideas.


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## kained&able (Feb 25, 2010)

Unless your name is cm punk you always get a name change, i can't think of anyone else who hasn't in recent years. 

Liked the look of that david ortega fella although that spine buster thing was a joke, not sure who's fault that was though. Tarver looked okay as well.

The dude with christian was more then a bit shit and the one with punk as well.

Tna shouldn't really look to take on wwe although they have to say thats the goal, i reckon there is room for two fairly large organizations but wwe will always be top dog as it has the history behind it, wcw only failed when it threw money away trying to be no 1 and over extended itself. It should concentrate on being slightly different(ie x divsion and a bit more dangerous). There are some quality wrestlers in that promotion and i fear they are being lost in an effort to draw ratings. TNA should strive to be bigger and better but should know its place. WWE has the kids and so will always have the money.

dave


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## mattie (Feb 26, 2010)

The Guardian classic youtube round-up has some wrestling on it.


I defy you to watch it and not piss yourself laughing.  Is it all like this nowadays?


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## kained&able (Feb 26, 2010)

That is awesome!

But no no it isn't.


dave


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## elbows (Feb 26, 2010)

Argh that was a very unsafe bump.

WWE have cut 3 workers. Helms and Burchill, which does not surprise me, but also Maria which shocks me, dunno what the story is there.


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## kained&able (Feb 27, 2010)

I reckon helms and burchill will be in TNA in three months time when their(i'm fairly sure entirely illegal) no compete clause expire.

Maria is a bit of a surprise shit wrestler but she won the public voted for, diva of the year last year, so was pretty over.

Wwe never really had a clue how to book burchill, which is a shame as whenever i saw him compete for FWA or other english promotions he looked very good indeed. British invasion beckons.


dave


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## elbows (Mar 6, 2010)

Not sure TNA will take on the recently released WWE talent. Not even sure how long TNA will be around unless they do something about the product - Impact this week was a demo of everything that is wrong with what they do, it  mostly sucked, the rating sucked, a lot of what they are trying in the Hogan era is failing and this show felt like the complete opposite of what they need, which is momentum as they switch to Monday nights. Maybe they can turn it around once they switch to Mondays but they have to book the show better and it already feels like the nostalgia acts are running out of steam, including Hogan. If they have managed to alienate a chunk of their old fan base and havent delivered much with the nostalgia acts then their Monday night run might not last long.

So far more stars have been destroyed than built in this brave new TNA. 

Kong might of left and if so I really hope WWE get her as if they are sensible they could do the 'Kong as a dominant monster' angle real well, picking up where TNA dropped the ball with her. There are a number of other TNA talents that could shine in WWE but there is always a fair chance of WWE not pushing them properly or doing something else to mess up their potential.


----------



## elbows (Mar 10, 2010)

Well apparently Mondays show was a lot better than the previous Thursdays, but the damage had been done already - Mondays show with the first Hogan vs Flair match on free tv only drew a 1.0 rating, lower than they normally get on Thursdays. They are making so many mistakes in how they book the shows and promote them - they didnt advertise any of the special surprise appearances that happened on Monday in advance, Thursdays horrible show didnt make people want to tune in, and Hogan cant draw big numbers despite doing the interview circuit last week promoting the match.

Considering how many former WCW employees work at TNA its sad that they havent learnt more from the mistakes made in that organisation. The death of WCW was due to many reasons beyond throwing too much money at it, but back in the day WCW were actually winning the war against the WWE for several years, and they started from a much stronger position than TNA so they could afford to make more mistakes than TNA can. Ultimately bad booking and failure to make new stars that people can take seriously and get behind is the killer mistake in my book and TNA make bad errors on this front almost every week. They are stuck in the 90's in some key respects, and the Hogan Bischoff era has made this much worse.


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## kained&able (Mar 11, 2010)

Yeah i really don't get why they didn't at least push the RVD and returning sting or something.

Leave a surprise or two yes but they had to push hard and RVD was the name to do it with. I will be interested(well to watch the show i haven't had internet for two days!!!) to see what figures the replays do.

I'm not sure how bad the rating is, yeah its lower then thursdays but on the other hand only 0.2/4 of the normal impact viewers decided to watch raw when given the choice which is encouraging. Also the raw rating was down 7% dunno if that was due to impact or not though.


dave


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## elbows (Mar 11, 2010)

Well the rating will certainly have made them very depressed behind the scenes. The other problem is that their costs have gone up (due to the old stars they have brought in and the cost of going live on tv every other week). And from a psychological point of view the biggest blow is that for years they have dreamt of going against WWE on Mondays, and have convinced themselves that Mondays is what they needed to take it to the next level and be a big success. 

In terms of having a future, well they dont make much money from pay-per-views or live events. That really needs to change, although if the Carter family are happy to keep throwing money at it and they dont lose their US tv deals they could keep going for a long time, if they have the will.

I get pissed off with them because they have all the talent & tv they need to be a success, but such bad promotion, decision making and booking spoils it all. Fire Vince Russo for a start. Get rid of Nasty Boys, keep Hogan out of the ring, book the younger potential stars properly and work out how to build long feuds that make people want to buy ppvs. Im not convinced that Bischoff has learnt from his mistakes either.


----------



## kained&able (Mar 12, 2010)

Finally watched impact.

Loved the x-divison three way, although wish they would allow williams to wrestle properly. Saw the iron man match he did with american dragon for ROH the other day, fuck me that was good. Don't like that was kaz's title shot though and shannon moore can't come in and get a shot, who the fuck is shannon more, i still laugh at 3 count every time i see him!

Thought the whole sting beat down thing was ridiculous and was disappointed they didn't do the sting and flair trying to steer aj, it was clearly the way forward. They had better be planning something good. I am not confident though.

Young vs xpac was decent enough and the angle looks to be well written, i'm enjoying it, just hope hall doesn't fuck it all up.

The US army kenndy/angle thing was cringe worthy and stupid.

The main event was actually okay, hopefully hogan will not be back in the ring again though and it will work out as wolfe vs abyss and hardy vs aj whom i vageuly recall having the odd decent match in jeffs last tna run. Abyss' new music is just stupid.

Good to hear that val venis got sacked now just need nastys and OJ to follow him out the door and i will be fairly happy with the roster. 

Now that the main event picture looks a bit clearer(or will be when joe comes back) they could do with sorting out the x-division a hell of lot, it has been dead for at least 6 months and then the tag divsion as well which has been weak since LAX split. I'd like to see Roode pushed into singles action and Americas most wanted be reformed and fucking sign up the briscos and the american wolves goddanm it. Both class.

I'm obviously a TNA mark but i can signs that it is slowly being pushed in the right direction while admitting there are big problems. They could really do with another hour(at least) of programming sometime soon as well. TNA has a fairly big roster for two hours a week.

WWE wise looks like nxt is a bit of failure. It is so badly defined. Just hope danielson and loki(whom i guessing will be used in season 2 if it gets that far) don't lose their chance because of it.


dave


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## kained&able (Mar 13, 2010)

Impact replay also did  a near a 1.0. by the way. which is big for a rerun.


dave


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## elbows (Mar 16, 2010)

The replay rating is kinda interesting and shows that they may have boobed with their Monday expectations, especially as the THursday rerun is not set to be a regular thing.

I have had to come to terms with the occasional army flagwaving that goes with US wrestling but the Kennedy/Angle stuff was stupid because they are booking this storyline in the wrong order - the stuff on last weeks Impact is what they should do at the end of the feud, not before the ppv match has even happened.

I know what you mean regarding them needing more time to showcase their talent but really I think it would be pointless until they learn how to make sane use of the 2 hours they already have. I dont know if all of the terrible booking that fails to create stars or storylines people can connect with very often is down to Vince Russo or whether the continual failure is a team effort, certainly Hogan and Bischoff have failed to solve the problems and have brought some stupid ideas of their own to the table. They have done a few things right but they better learn from these mistakes quickly. There are a few reasons to retain hope and some reasons to give up. I want them to succeed because wrestling in general is generally better when there is competition and other significant places for the wrestlers to work, and WWE certainly doesnt entertain me in the way it did a decade ago. But Ive been watching TNA for many years, and they usually fail to seize opportunities. Given the talent and TV time they have got Im sure there are others who could do a much better job in such circumstances.

WWE NXT is a failure in terms of how quickly the rating has fallen, and it certainly hasnt caught my interest that much because the format is not exciting enough and the palpable stage fright of the newbies makes it vaguely unsettling viewing for me. Still its no worse than ECW became in the end. And the buildup to Wrestlemania this year has been done very well, although they needlessly watered down the Brett Hart storyline with silly car injury stuff. Im fairly worried about future match & star quality for WWE considering people like Undertaker & Michaels are coming to the end of their careers, although they have just about got enough people over in recent years to keep momentum going, I wonder how many years I have to wait till a superhot breakout star emerges.


----------



## elbows (Mar 18, 2010)

Well the US Tv network Spike appear to have been sensible in the face of the rating and it looks like they are going to keep the Thursday rerun.

This weeks Impact sounds like it had its moments but was still full of bad booking and other stupidity. They are lucky that Jef Hardy just got his trial delayed a few months otherwise they could have been giving a huge push to someone who was just about to end up in jail. Apparently at the tapings of this show Flair got a tad carried away and was throwing his blood in the direction of the audience, but key parts of this segment were edited off the show.

WWE executed the Hart-McMahon storyline to perfection this week on Raw, so consider my earlier complaint about them overbooking that angle null and void. For this and several other reasons I will gladly lose sleep and money to watch Wrestlemania live on ppv this year.


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## kained&able (Mar 21, 2010)

My only complaints about the card so far for wrestlemania are the trips/shamus match which just seems to be there rather then have a good reason for it, and the punk vs mysterio match which again seems sloppily booked. Although should be outstanding!

Oh and the tag title match, but that is expected these days.

Tna ppv tonight.  It is obviously being completely overshadowed by mania, but there are a few match i really want to see.

Kaz/daniels/red/kendrick ladder match should be ridiculous as should the ultimate x match.

Hopefully angle/kennedy will be decent and abyss/styles has always been class but im really scared im going to hate the ending.

Rest of the card is a bit hit and miss but i reckon the tag match should be decent enough.

Scot hall will be shit but hopefully the others can carry em through.

Im fairly sure the terry/magnus match will be a good time to take a shit.


dave


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## elbows (Mar 22, 2010)

I didnt watch the TNA ppv but by all accounts it wasnt very good and yes you will probably hate the finish to the Styles Abyss match.

If this weeks Impact isnt any good I may just stop watching TNA altogether.


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## kained&able (Mar 25, 2010)

PPV was actually really really good. Best one since the amazing one they ran in november with styles/joe/daniels and angle/wolfe.

Impact was possibly the best of the hogan era as well. The foley/jarret/bsichofff shite was lame but fair play to bischoff for being able to play like that, just not sure it should be part of a wrestling show. The rest of the matches were decent and they actually set up a couple of matches for next week nicely Also great to see beer money back on tele.

dave


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## elbows (Mar 25, 2010)

I enjoyed Impact a lot, wish it was that watchable every week. I didnt bother with the ppv so I cant really comment but everything I read made me think I wouldnt like it.

It looks like they are going to try showing Impact an hour earlier on Mondays in the USA so that half the show is not going against Raw, will be interesting to see how much it helps their ratings.

Im not bothering with WWE this week until Wrestlemania on Sunday, as Ive already seen more than enough of the buildup. I hope Money in the bank match isnt spoiled or made dangerous by the excessive number of participants. I hope Michaels & Undertakers tired old bodies still have a really great match left in them, dont think they can physically do the same stuff they did last year and it will be a tough one to top but they will hopefully go for a different style of match that will deliver.


----------



## elbows (Mar 25, 2010)

I am rather sad at how bad the womens wrestling is on both TNA and WWE these days. Between the 2 companies there are just enough women who can work a match well together, but they arent on the same shows. It doesnt seem very long ago at all that there were good womens matches to be seen quite often, but some great workers are gone and others who looked good in the past seem to have lost the ability to have a good match. Perhaps some agents who put together good matches in the past are no longer working with the womens divisions.


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## kained&able (Mar 26, 2010)

Yeah knockout division has really suffered since gail kim left and now with kong gone it is a little weak.

I have no problems with tara, daffney, angelina love, hamada(when the find an angle for her again) and serita. Taylor and velvet are a little green still but decent enough, madison rayne might be okay one day and odb is entertaining i guess.

WWE side i only really rate mickie, beth and gail(if she is ever allowed to wrestle) melina and michelle are going to be decent and i am of the opinion natalya is good but don't think i have ever seen her wrestle properly

My yard stick for womens wrestlers is always how well they throw a clothesline. It invariably proves an accurate indication of quality.

Think the time slot change is a one off beacuse of some NCAA final or something, at least initially. I really wouldn't be shocked to see it stay at that time if ratings get a boost. Seems weird though that the PG wwe runs from 9-11 and the pg-14 tna is going to run at a much more kiddie friendly time.


dave


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## elbows (Mar 26, 2010)

Im not sure how the parental ratings & watershed works in the USA, plus all the multiple timezone stuff they have to deal with there. You are right that the early start is only scheduled for 1 week for now. Hope it does well because the Thursday replay was dropped this week.

As for the women, yeah I hear that Natalya is good but for their own silly reasons they arent using her in that way. I'll make no predictions about who could become decent in future because I find it so hard to tell - wrestling just suddenly seems to click for some people, even when they didnt show much early promise, eg The Miz & John Morrison, and others get stuck at an ability level that just doesnt quite cut it. I have to hope that at least one of the women who is horrible now develops into something better, but no obvious candidate pops into my head. 

Im really gutted by Taras performance in TNA compared to WWE, and vice versa with Gail Kim. I wish Beth had been in the WWE at a time when there were some other good female workers there being used right, not that there have been that many over the years - Trish got really good, Molly Holly could work but I hated the way they commentated about her body shape, the shits, same with the piggy james angle recently.  Jazz could work a certain style really well. Mickie James doesnt seem as sharp in the ring as she once was, dunno why, I miss that great feud she had with Trish. I think Ivory was a good worker back in the day buts its so long ago now I cant tell. I used to enjoy Litas matches until I became too concerned for her physical wellbeing after that truly scary bump outside the ring she took once where it looked like she might have snapped her head off.

Kong has apparently gone to ROH.


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## elbows (Mar 26, 2010)

Melina is another one that I thought was pretty good but then seemed to get clumsier in the ring, and now she's been injured several times. Candice Michelle seemed to be one of those unlikely candidates who started to become a great worker, but she was never the same after she had that real bad injury and obviously she is long gone now.

I wish Layla El could become a great wrestler because she's got the attitude & quirky British goofiness to be very entertaining.

I am a Daffney fan due to her ability to play a character but I fear she is going to hurt herself as she has some ring limitations, Im not sure about the way she takes some bumps.


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## kained&able (Mar 26, 2010)

daffny must have been wrestling for 15 years by now, she has yet to fuck her self up really really badly. i reckon she can cope.

I see potential in eve wwe wise. Trish was by far the best womens wrestler i have seen, not bad for a valet.


dave


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## bromley (Mar 30, 2010)

Best American female wrestler was Madusa, although WWE made her get implants and a nose job. Japanesse female wrestling is as respected as the male version.

Good wrestlemania, makes a change from the bloodbath that TNA serves up these days and it was great to see a Charlton flag in the crowd!


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## elbows (Mar 31, 2010)

Yeah Wrestlemania was fun, most of the matches didnt go long enough but it was still a good event.

TNAs woes continue, they only got a 0.6 rating on Monday - ouch!


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

I am having trouble trying to get memories of the absolutely hideous Hart vs McMachon Wrestlemania fight out of my head. I went into it fully aware of Brets limitations, and McMahon cant do bumps that look even half decent anymore, but there is no excuse for the absolutely terrible way the match was booked. Bruce Hart going into business for himself didnt help either.


----------



## kained&able (Apr 1, 2010)

I am 3/4s of the way through watching wrestlemania. Just edge/jericho and taker match to watch.

Have to say not overly impressed so far. Money in the bank was rubbish and thus far the best match on the card has been shameus vs HHH and i really didn't want to watch that.

Punk vs rey was okay but a bit on the short side and everything else really hasn't made me go yay. I really don't get why the tag match went first either, wasn't a great match and without morrison and truth winning in left everything a bit flat.

saw the impact rating, ouch. But twas shawns retirement ad wrestlemania fallout so i'm not shocked. It isn't going well for tna though, which is a shame because in my opinion they put out a much better product.

I watched a bit of dragongate USA over the weekend. Was some tournament thngy to crown a stupidly named championship belt. VERY VERY good indeed. Very much an old skool ROH type feel to it, nice.


dave


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## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

I usually end up les impressed than Id hoped when I watch stuff but I think its sometimes because I will never be able to get into it in the way I could when I was much younger. Wrestlemania was getting on my nerves a bit due to short match length but I hope you will find that the last match saves the show quite a lot.

I wish I could agree about the TNA product being better, as you know I often feel like WWEs stuff is too stale, and TNA has had some good matches over the years, but I cant find much positive to say about the product these days, great matches are happening a lot less frequently and the bad booking makes it hard to get into many storylines & feuds. I still hope they can turn it around but I havent too much faith that they will. At least the Nasty Boys are gone, although this was apparently done because Knobs did something he shouldnt have away from the ring, dunno what.


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## kained&able (Apr 1, 2010)

I've always been massivly into the cruiser/light/jumior weights so TNA works for me a hell of a lot better then wwe.

If it wasn't for the  x-divsion matches i think i would have abandoned wrestling a long time ago. Tis what keep me interested.


dave


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## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Yeah Im similar, although larger wrestlers who can work a well structured match with good psychology and a very good buildup to the match can get my interest too. And wacky characters, which frankly has been the only reason Ive kept up with TNA at all since the match quality went down.


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## kained&able (Apr 1, 2010)

dear god did you see orlando jordons new gimmick.

I'm quite scared! Especially with the own hart lowering down from the rafters and police tape shiz, which must be an oversight!

I'm quite liking team green thumb(rvd, hardy) just need to add kendrick to the mix!

Oh and i see the hart dynasty is getting involved in tag championship situation, bout fucking time, they have the skill and are one of the only genuine teams in wwe, i'm so bored of put together meaningless tag teams in wwe. That division has been nothing since all the TLC teams split.


dave


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## elbows (Apr 4, 2010)

Yes I hope the Hart dynasty get a proper push, WWE have a bad track record for wasting talent and not pushing new people in a sustained way, giving up after a few weeks.

I didnt get too conerned about the 'lowered from the rafters' aspect of Orlando Jordan, more bothered about the crude way that sexuality issues tend to end up exploited by wrestling, and conversely that the character is doomed because the TV network will keep getting cold feet and cutting out the risque aspects of the storyline.

In another blow for TNA match quality going forwards, its been confirmed that Christopher Daniels has been released!


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## kained&able (Apr 4, 2010)

Cryme time have been split up

Not sure if daniels has gone or has just been allowed to do some ROH shows untill the writers have something for him. He still shows up on the TNA website roster section and they are normally quite quick about that.

That said he did a promo about being held back for 7 years at the ROH show. The fact that he turned up on  PPV a few days after allegedly being released gives me hope though. Normally they put a no compete clause of some kind in there, certainly for stuff that makes tv. Also no mentions of it from any of the wrestlers i have on twitter.(logged in for the first time in agggges to make sure!!)

Daniels had better not be gone, until his curryman/suicide run after his "release from TNA" and subsequent shoddy booking he was easily my favorite wrestler.

My understanding about the OJ thing is he is actually Bi and indeed the dude is his real boyfriend AND he has creative control/imput on the angle. Wasn't so much i was concerned about the entrance it was just the police tape is very much like the tights owen  used to wear in his nation of domination stint and considering how he died there were obvious parallels. I don't really care about the angle, Orlando Jordon is fairly fucking shit.

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 19, 2010)

I was flicking about on the yube and to my horror and surprise, it seems the WWE have rediscovered how to book angles properly. The CM Punk/Jeff Hardy feud through last summer was the best bit of booking I've seen in years. CM Punk is probably the top heel in the business right now and some of his exchanges with Hardy were bordering on shoot. Great stuff. Almost, ALMOST, makes me want to tune in to WWE programming again.


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2010)

Yes Id say that WWEs ability to book angles has improved in the last few years, they still make some silly mistakes from time to time but a lot better in general.

TNAs booking remains awful. It can still be entertaining and there are still some good matches, but they drive a lot of people mad with the terrible decisions they make, they dont know how to make stars of build things up at the right pace. Ive almost completely given up on them now, just waiting to see if Bischoff, Hogan and/or Vince Russo leave, or if Jim Ross joins.

WWE had a nightmare with the volcano as both Smackdown & Raw crews were on a European tour. Smackdown crew managed to get back to the USA after a nightmare bus ride to Spain, Raw crew were still stuck in Northern Ireland last time I checked, and so RAW had to be completely reworked, although Ive not looked at the spoilers yet.

Kanyon killed himself recently 

Kurt Angle was lucky he didnt kill himself doing a move from the top of the cage at the tna ppv on Sunday, havent seen it myself, I forgot it was on, which says it all about their ability to build interest in their product. xpac no-showed and they stripped Doug Williams of the title because he couldnt get there due to the volcano (presume he was booked to lose title at the show in a match and they didnt want to change the plan, idiots).


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 20, 2010)

Nothing TNA can do will ever surprise me, having lived through the darkest years of professional wrestling (early 90s), seen the light (ECW) then watched WWF take half the ECW roster and embark on the Attitude era whilst WCW just went from shit to fucking absoluely ridiculously shit under the guidance of Bischoff and Russo, and the cliquey booking of Hogan and chums.

Is it really true the TNA production crew have to keep finding new ways of stopping the 'Hogan sucks' chants from reaching the mics every week? WFT is Hogan doing anywhere near a wrestling ring? The old fuck was past it 20 years ago. And that's no exaggeration, he was WELL PAST IT 20 FUCKING YEARS AGO!!! I used to write matches and storyline in an e-fed and even I could book a card, or a long-term angle with a pay-off, better than those goons.

I still dip into ROH and catch the odd indy show. I find the close up, smart-mark atmosphere of indies so much better than those shit kiddie-friendly, face-pop WWE live shows they run out for the Brits. But WWE has surprised me. I guess it couldn't stay shit for ever.


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## elbows (Apr 21, 2010)

kained&able said:


> daffny must have been wrestling for 15 years by now, she has yet to fuck her self up really really badly. i reckon she can cope.



Daffney had a very bad bump at the TV taping this week, couldnt get up, they had to take down the ring ropes and rush her to hospital in an ambulance. Luckily it sounds like it was a stinger rather than a permanent spinal injury, and she was wrestling a local wrestler in a tryout match so it may not have been Daffneys fault, but I still fear for her in future if she keeps wrestling her present style. She got a concussion and a messed up arm sometime last year if I recall after taking that bump through a table on the outside of the ring.


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## El Sueno (Apr 22, 2010)

elbows said:


> Daffney had a very bad bump at the TV taping this week, couldnt get up, they had to take down the ring ropes and rush her to hospital in an ambulance. Luckily it sounds like it was a stinger rather than a permanent spinal injury, and she was wrestling a local wrestler in a tryout match so it may not have been Daffneys fault, but I still fear for her in future if she keeps wrestling her present style. She got a concussion and a messed up arm sometime last year if I recall after taking that bump through a table on the outside of the ring.



A great feature on the _Rise & Fall of ECW_ dvds is alternate commentary on a few matches. You get to hear Taz talking us through a match with Bam Bam and RVD commentating on a match with Jerry Lynn. Both feature legit concussions so it's pretty interesting to hear how they make it to the finish. It's like watching a shoot interview over a match.


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## kained&able (Apr 23, 2010)

The kurt angle moonsualt was scary. Hr came off the top of the cage(fair play) at a really starnge angle, thought he was foinf to land on kennedys throat

The girl daffney got botched by was someone team 3d were training, so she should be well versed, they don't take on rookies. Angelina love is injured as well!

The tna ppv had its moments, the two x-division matches were very good, and the angle vs kennedy match was amazing. Possibly my match of the year thus far. I think the x-pac no show fucked with the programme a hell of a lot, nash doing double duty is really not what you want at all. Rest of it was

Agreed on the punk/hardy thing it was a very very good feud indeed.

I see wwe have done a another batch of releases including shelton benjamin
 and mickie james which both strike me as a bit silly. How can wwe ever pull off money in the bank with out shelton? I'd expect to see him in TNA in 3 months, i have always really rated him. Oh and jimmy ynag got released, be shocked if he doesn't end up tna and all, hopefully with a better gimmick.

I reckon the doug williams thing could actually work, forigner complaining about racism blah blah blah, could work with his anti "circus performer" thing he is doing at the minute. Maybe

dave


----------



## elbows (May 1, 2010)

TNA Impact has been very good (compared to normal) for several weeks now - unfortunately the rating for the last show was really bad, lowest ever I believe.

WWE is boring me, havent bothered watching it much since Wrestlemania, their roster is showing a lack of depth now that Michaels is gone, HHH is taking a break to film a movie, Randy Orton is no good as a face, and rumour has it that Batista is leaving soon. Also it seems the WWE have not renewed the contract of Jim Ross, what a waste of the best commentator this generation has seen.

On a positive note, that stain Bubba the Love Sponge has been fired from TNA, apparently because he got Awesome Kong on his show and said extremely unpleasant things about her. Hooray, although its sad that TNA didnt get rid of him after the original incident with Kong where he said twatty things about Haiti.

Tara is leaving TNA, she is upset with them for multiple reasons, though it sounds like there are a few good reasons that they wont miss her, pain in the arse behind the scenes apparently. I really rated her during most of her WWE run but I wasnt impressed with her in TNA so no great loss from my point of view. Hope they sign Mickie James as their womens division is very weak right now. It saddens me that promotions these days are mostly interested in the women for their looks, and end up not push the likes of Hamada who can really work.


----------



## elbows (May 4, 2010)

Not completely confirmed yet but it sounds like the new monday night wars are over already, TNA is moving back to thursdays on US television. Not really surprising considering how low the rating was last week, and it wont make any difference to UK viewers anyway. Hopefully they can get the rating back to a level where they will survive, as I certainly dont want WWE to be the only major show, and if TNA can keep putting on shows of a similar quality to the last few weeks then I will be happy.


----------



## kained&able (May 7, 2010)

I have no internet so am ridiculously out of touch

Not watched since my last post.


dave


----------



## Bakunin (May 11, 2010)

kained&able said:


> I have no internet so am ridiculously out of touch
> 
> Not watched since my last post.
> 
> ...



Then here's an old-school treat for you. 

Arn 'The Enforcer' Anderson delivering the perfect spinebuster:


----------



## El Sueno (May 11, 2010)

Back in my e-fed days my finisher was the  FTW!!


----------



## elbows (May 13, 2010)

Wow WWE really made a mess of NXT. Not only is is being cancelled later this year when Smackdown moves to sci-fi channel in the US, they seem to be giving up on it even sooner than that. They made a complete mess of Daniel Bryan and failed to get many others over, so now they have changed plans and got rid of 3 of the rookies in one week. Good news is that Bryan Danielson is now using his real name, is free from the NXT disaster and should move to one of their main programs.

The booking of the rest of WWE is not so good since Wrestlemania.

TNA has gone back to making shitty shows and is indeed back to Thursday nights in the US, that Monday Night War didnt last long.


----------



## Bakunin (May 28, 2010)

El Sueno said:


> Back in my e-fed days my finisher was the  FTW!!



But was it as evil as this move, the Package Piledriver, which for obvious reasons is banned from every major prmotion in the world:


Anyone got any Aspirin?


----------



## El Sueno (May 28, 2010)

Bakunin said:


> But was it as evil as this move, the Package Piledriver, which for obvious reasons is banned from every major prmotion in the world:
> 
> 
> Anyone got any Aspirin?



Yeah I've never seen anyone land a package-piledriver without crumpling up like a concertina. Them wirey little kids in CZW can sure take some moves.

BTW if you're in Croydon area (Haling Park) 5th June there's a backyard wrestling event going on, followed by bbq and party at nearby pub in West Croydon... let me know if you want any more details.


----------



## kained&able (May 28, 2010)

I do love that package piledriver. i reckon they would let him do it in TNA to be honest.

They let em do all the other piledriver variations and the vertebreaker.

Anyway best pile driver is petey williams canadian destriyer thingy, it always looks insane.


dave


----------



## El Sueno (Jun 7, 2010)

Scott Hall's latest mugshot:-







The boy just can't stay out of trouble! Still, better he be stinking up a cell somewhere than a wrestling ring.


----------



## elbows (Jun 11, 2010)

My God WWE actually did a major angle that felt like something. Probably a desperation move because they have been hit by a wave of people leaving & unexpected injuries, but even so, the end of Raw this week featured out of the norm stuff happening! The Santino-Kozlov dance-off is also worthy of attention for different reasons.

I have stopped watching TNA, will give it another try at some point but the booking has to make at least some sense for me to care.


----------



## Bakunin (Jun 29, 2010)

WWE urgently, urgently need a new announcer to jazz things up a bit.

My personal recommendation, although the chances of his being let loose with a live microphone are absolutely NIL, is none other than the original 'Quintessential Studmuffin' himself, Joel 'You can't have your pudding if you don't eat my meat' Gertner...

Here's the best of 'Gertner Vision', just for you...


----------



## kained&able (Jun 29, 2010)

booking has got a bit better in tna the last few weeks it seems.

RVD as champion i'm loving, jay lethal turning away from the comedy when in ring and actually wrestling! Abyss going physco again. Kazerian getting the push he deserves.

They have also introduced a top 10 ranking system which means that mid card random matches make a bit more sense now, and kurt angle is going through the entire top 10 presumably to face the champion just in time for bound for glory(actually that might be a bit far away, hmmmm)

What went on with all the bryan danielson getting sacked stuff? Missed it all but caught the fall out, also internet land is bitching about the season 1 nxt rookies angle, is ythat as much of a car crash as everyone is making out?

Oh and are they letting lo-ki wrestler properly on nxt?

I need answers.

dave


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

The NXT angle isnt bad, mostly because it has at least freshened up the very stale WWE product. It suffered a setback with the Bryan Danielson firing although he could be back at some point - basically WWE have all sorts of silly rules about what is allowed on TV now to keep sponsors etc happy in this PG era, and Bryan fell foul of this by spitting and by choking someone out using their tie (such chokes are banned since the Benoit murders). Awful for the angle as hardly any of the other NXT rookies can work a good match.

lo-ki is being allowed to wrestle in his style but they are shitting on his character by teaming him with Lay-Cool (Michelle & Layla) as his pros, making him wear a pink shirt, etc.

Bret Hart is gone as GM, that didnt last long. I dont care that much as he was pretty crappy in the role. But the new mystery GM who sends orders to Michael Cole via email is really quite annoying.

A real tragedy has happened this week, they had the NXT guys beat up a load of legends, including Ricky the Dragon Steamboat (as there is a steamboat DVD coming out). But Steamboat suffered some legit damage during this angle and now in real life he has had a brain aneurism and remains hospitalised.

I havent watched TNA for about a month as their crap booking finally made my head hurt too much, but I will start watching it again soon to see if its better.


----------



## kained&able (Jul 2, 2010)

Oh shit thats lame about steamboat. pretty similar to how chris candino died

Watched last weeks nxt to see lo ki take on a massive dude, decent match but yeah laycool piss me off no end. Funny how they have given the internet darlings the really annoying mentors thus far. 

The thing that annoyed me mainly was giving mr perfects son a different name then henning and then constantly referring to his dad. I know wwe likes to own the trademarks but it just seems silly, either keep his name and tlak about his folks or change it and don't(or subtly hint at it) his neck breaker looks brutal! I approve.

dave


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

I thought Candido died because he got injured in the ring, had an operation on his leg and then flew when he shouldnt of, got a blood clot & pneumonia and passed away whilst sedated and having his lungs drained.


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

As for NXT, there are some that believe the whole thing is a rib on internet fans, which given WWEs dodgy ideas is not completely beyond the realms of possibility.


----------



## kained&able (Jul 2, 2010)

elbows said:


> I thought Candido died because he got injured in the ring, had an operation on his leg and then flew when he shouldnt of, got a blood clot & pneumonia and passed away whilst sedated and having his lungs drained.



I thought he got a little leg injury after doing a bump as a manager for the naturals(i liked them!) then when he flew the next day he got some sort of clot type thing and then died a couple of days later.

Thats how i remember it anyway, i will have to check.



> At Lockdown on April 24, he fractured both his tibia and fibula and dislocated his ankle during a steel cage match with Lance Hoyt against Apolo and Sonny Siaki.[4] He underwent surgery the next day to have steel plates and screws inserted into his leg. Later in the week, Sytch picked Candido up from the airport, and was told he was given only pain medication but no antibiotics, which are normally given after surgery. He was at the following Impact! tapings managing The Naturals.[4] By April 28, 2005, Candido wasn't feeling well and his condition worsened during the day. He collapsed in the evening and was rushed to the hospital.[4] He was diagnosed with pneumonia. Doctors wanted to drain Candido's lungs, but he didn't want to be sedated. The doctors eventually convinced Candido to go under while they drained his lungs. Twenty minutes later, doctors told Sytch that Candido had died. He was 33 years old. According to his brother Johnny, Candido died due to a blood clot, a complication from surgery.[4]






dave


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

Well Im not really sure what similarities you were suggesting there are between them, other than serious in-ring injuries. The lessons from the Candido thing are that doctors sometimes fail to give the necessary advice, and that you should not rush back to work after having an injury. Im not sure what the lessons will be from the Steamboat thing, other than not letting wrestlers take bumps that result in real injury, which is impossible to get right 100% of the time, and perhaps being more careful with letting older people take bumps. WWE certainly seemed pretty wreckless letting Mae Young in the ring as recently as a couple of years ago, only to discover she was permanently in danger of losing her balance.


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

Just did some research and yes Mae Young was in a battle royal in late 2008, aged 85! It was scary to watch.

At this rate Flair will never retire and will die in the ring.

And its something of a miracle that Kurt Angle hasnt died either in or out of the ring, considering the stuff he does despite the seriously damaged neck, and the drug problems he had some years ago.

Learning about the downside of wrestling has certainly taken some of the fun out of it for me, although it fascinates me in a morbid sort of way. Especially in days gone by it was such a mess behind the scenes, the in-ring physically & life on the road having taken its toll on so many.

Im really not looking forward to Hogan wrestling again later this year against Abyss, Hogan could hardly move last time he wrestled and hes had back surgery since then.

Apparently TNA want Paul Heyman really really badly, probably because they are stuck in the past and they have tried everything else so he's about the last magic bullet fix they can think of to turn their sad business around.


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2010)

Steamboat is apparently ok, it wasnt a brain aneurism after all.

Im about to start watching TNA now, although I should probably wait as it sounds like they are in a stupid holding pattern right now due to behind the scenes changes. If the gossip sites are right then Bischoff & Hogan have lost a considerable amount of power, and Russo thinks his days are numbered too (yay!). Seems somewhat inevitable considering what a disaster that bunch turned out to be. Hopes for the future are still being pinned on getting Paul Heyman in, they are negotiating with him now but as far as I can tell its not a done deal yet.


----------



## kained&able (Jul 12, 2010)

russo has been there for years and years.

Not watched the last ppv yet but the card sounded kinda weak to be honest. 

dave


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2010)

Yes and most of what has annoyed me about TNA has been down to his dodgy booking & writing. Maybe he can write good dialogue but he has no idea how to tell stories properly. Hogan & Bischoff coming along just added another layer of clueless stuck-in-the-past thinking to the mix. Granted Russo is probably a slightly overused scapegoat for wrestling fans that dont like the modern 'product', and TNA had different horrible booking issues even when Russo was not head writer, but to stand a chance of working I think they need rid of him, and I was delighted to read that he thinks the writing may be on the wall. The poor storytelling and nonsense certainly got worse since some of those who could prevent the worst of Russo, such as Jim Cornette, were removed.  Not that I miss the era where Jarrett had too much power and booked himself as the champ too much, but at least the undercard was solid back then.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 9, 2010)

Just watched tna's ecw ppv. Shat all over wwe's effort from a few years back.

Was great to see kid kash and 2 cold scorpio again & sabu again. I miss them. Obviously wasn't the greatest ppv ever as few of em were out of ring shape but was decent enough and more importently a  lot of fun. Dudleys vs balls mahney and axl rotten was utter class!

I'd forgotten how good little guido used to be, his run as nunzio sullied his repuation for me.


dave


----------



## Bakunin (Aug 10, 2010)

Assuming he has any actual power within the company, is Paul Heyman going to start paying the wrestlers with dud cheques while still expecting them to perform, like he did towards the end of the original ECW?


----------



## kained&able (Aug 10, 2010)

he wont be in charge of the money, just the booking by the looks of things, which he is rather good at.

Just hope he brings kid kash and sabu back. They look like they still have legs.

dave


----------



## elbows (Aug 10, 2010)

At the moment its not looking like Heyman is joining the company (but never say never), and they may use Tommy Dreamer as the head booker instead, which will at least be a change but Im realy not convinced he will make a great booker.

I havent watched the tna ppv yet so cant really comment on that, although I have to say my expectations are fairly low as its more about nostalgia than anything else really isnt it?

WWE has done a really good job of building up Summerslam by actually doing an angle the old fashioned way and letting it build up slowly and not giving away too much in-ring action between the competitors for free on tv before the show. Personally Im not all that into it because I think Im just burnt out on wrestling in general right now, but if I was younger I would probably be quite happy to see new stars such as Shamus get somewhere, NXT faction working ok all things considered, etc etc. And despite some of the naff comedy Santino has been involved with in the last year on Raw, I am still a big fan of his comedy when done right, and his physical in-ring comedy is bringing a smile to my face on the rare occasions I catch it.

Its a shame Batista is gone, he really didnt get a long enough run as the awesome heel that he played in his last months with the company. Apparently he wants to get into mma but I suspect he is too old and injury-prone to make a go of it but we shall see.

Steamboat is recovering at home now, clearly his health issues were downplayed by WWE fearing some fallout, as although he may not have had a full aneurism something quite bad must of happened as he was in ospital for about 3 weeks, has a nurse at home, and cant lift 5 pounds in weight right now. Fingers crossed for a full recovery given time. 

I am most amused by how great The Mi is these days, who would have thought it when he was new and more rality tv star than anything else, with JBL burying him so much on commentary to boot.


----------



## elbows (Aug 10, 2010)

Santino v Regal in a tag match on Superstars the other week was a pretty good example of what Im talking about:


The cobra and powerwalking the ropes, made even better via Regals facial reactions, joy.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 10, 2010)

I always had confidence that the miz would turn into a decent wrestler. Clearly had the promo stuff down from day one and i liked his agression, he was just way way to green to be in wwe proper when he first got on the scene. But i guess he was kind of a name so they had too push him quick.

dave


----------



## bromley (Aug 12, 2010)

Why couldn't they book the invasion angle the way they've booked the nexus?

Series 2 has far better talent, once lucky cannon goes you'll be left with 4 _superstars _worthy of a full time contract & Mr Perfect's son.

TNA has surprised me by becoming very good since hogan and Bischoff arrived, although there's trouble at mill... Talent uses Hogan's twitter account to vent anger


----------



## kained&able (Aug 12, 2010)

complete fake account from what i have read.

Invasion angle was never going to  be given a lot of time to develop(apart from anything else it wasn't really an invasion they were all wrestling each other) as its pretty much a one off event. If a few of em get signed they might do something proper.


dave


----------



## elbows (Aug 12, 2010)

Which invasion? The very badly done WCW invasion of WWF years ago suffered from several problems - a lot of the big WCW names didnt come across when WCW was purchased by Vince, and wrestling is a spiteful twisted business where WWE in particular tend to see guys that came from other companies as needing to go through a lengthy process of being humbled and learning to work WWE style. Plus they added a dodgy ECW invasion with Stephanie in charge which didnt exactly help.

If you mean the current TNA 'cant call it ECW' invasion, well Ive uterly hated the way its been done and Im no fan at all of the Hogan Bischoff era, some thing have been done better than before but a lot is worse than ever.

The fake Hulk Hogan twitter account could just be some random person on the net, but considering the morale backstage at TNA these days its not completely impossible that it is an insider.


----------



## bromley (Aug 12, 2010)

I meant THE invasion angle, what should have been the biggest angle in the history of wrestling. Claiming this was never going to be given much time to develop after a 4 year rating war...words escape me!

The big names didn't join because they had a year left on their contract and the WWE was too stupid to buy them out. It should have still worked though, Booker T and DDP are big names than Wade Barrant and David Otunga will ever be. WWE not putting the WCW/ECW talent over is the biggest reason for it's failure. FACT. WCW managed to get an invasion of Nash and Hall to run for 3 years, of which only the first year was any good!


Re the twitter account, a shitty internet based angle is my bet, but it being fake is more likely.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh my bad i thought you meant the current tna ecw thing.

I only rmemeber bits and pieces from the wcw/ecw/wwe thing to be honest. 

dave


----------



## kained&able (Aug 13, 2010)

lance cade is dead apparently.


dave


----------



## elbows (Aug 13, 2010)

Apparetly Lance Cade has died. The very premature deaths in wrestling just wont stop coming, sigh.


----------



## bromley (Aug 13, 2010)

This is the worse thing about be a fan of Wrestling.

R.I.P.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 15, 2010)

I have inadvertently become mildly interested in TNA and WWE via some serious channel hopping over the past couple of days, and am aware that tonight is Summerslam. Anyone know where it might be streamed? Can't find it on myp2p.


----------



## elbows (Aug 16, 2010)

From what Ive read it didnt sound worth staying up for. Some strange booking which leaves me scratching my head but maybe tonights Raw will show that they havent completely dropped the ball, we shall see.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 16, 2010)

cam justin.tv is normally your best bet for future reference, or the normal torrent places the next day.

Not watched it yet but is ready and waiting for me after the football!


dave


----------



## bromley (Aug 16, 2010)

Best place is special secret torrent sites, only takes 30mins to download. 

Quite a nice surprise in the main event.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 16, 2010)

yeah i'm on a special super secreet torrent site too. Just my ratio is too low to hand out any decoder rings.

Apparetnly though you have a better connection then me! more like 4hrs for me 

oh and elbows if you are on a super secret torrent site see if you can grab a copy of the recent motor city machine guns vs beer money tag team series that tna have been running. Honestly the best stuff i have seen since the dudleys/edge and chritian/hardy boys days.


dave


----------



## bromley (Aug 17, 2010)

That series was great, it really does emphasis who much tag team wrestling is wasted in WWE, which was probably it's purpose.  Which match was your fav Kained&able? I think I'll go with the final one of the series, although I will be re-watching them all soonish.

What's the rules regarding spoilers on this thread? I've only seen the main event of Summerslam but thought it was booked extremely well.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 17, 2010)

i'm not sure i really liked the ladder and the two out three falls matches. Will have to watch em all again, they were all good though, even the ultimate x match was pretty inventive which was the one i was wrorried about.

Umm as far as i'm concerned give it a few days before spoilers but then your all good, dunno what anyone else reckons.

dave


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 17, 2010)

I saw the last two of that series and I was really impressed. I thought perhaps it was just because I hadn't watched for a long time and so wrestiling as a whole had moved on, but it does seem like that was something a bit special.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 18, 2010)

right finally watched summer slam. 

Oh yay the return of super cena, all but no selling that ddt, very annoying. Was impresed by a couple of the nexus lads though, skip sheffield especially has come on leaps and bounds since nxt. Tarver, slater and darren young(is that his name??) have no futures in the business after this angle though by the looks of things. Difficult to make a 7 vs 7 main event work really.

Rey vs kane was good shame the entire world knew taker was coming back and that i've seen that exact same match far too many times now for it be be truely interesting. 

Alacia fox is rubbish and melina isn't nearly as good as she is meant to be, quite how beth, gail and natalya havent been given the ball in that diviison amazes me.

Biggest suprise of the night was ortan and shameus which i expected to be really rubbish but was probabley my favourite match.



Isn't about time the vickie geurro pension plan got ended, i mean really, whats the point, was really disserpointed with the kofi vs ziggler match as a whole, i expected much better.

as for the big show match, i can't really commend as i dont know anything about the angle but that had better just be starting beacuse that was ridiculously crap. 

How was raw on monday? worth watching?


dave


----------



## bromley (Aug 19, 2010)

Raw was booked awfully this week, each member of Nexus had to face a member of the WWE side from the main event of Summerslam , with Bret Hart replaced with some forgettable upper mid-carder like Mark Henry because the e-mail based GM doesn't like Bret. If they lost they were out of the stable as the leader wanted to trim the fat. A series of school boys and count outs followed resulting in Nexus winning each match, apart from Darren (Or is it Daniel?) Young who faced some guy called John Cena who managed to squashed him. 

As for the main event I thought it was booked as closed to prefect as you can book a main event of the second biggest ppv of the year with a veteran who can't wrestle and Rookie's who are shite. Mean while on TNA they were still pushing ECW.

The guys who couldn't wrestle were eliminated quickly, and that includes the guy with the celb girl friend who's been awful since the nexus begun. Hart got a DQ in order to avoid a bump. The seeds for an interesting Miz v Danielson fued were sown, likewise a "we don't know what to do with them" Jericho & Edge tag team.

Series 2 of NXT has 4 guys who I would want to watch on the main shows whereas series 1 only had 2 + Skip Sheffield who's impressed me as well. It will be interesting to see where they're going with series 1, which I hoped would have been broken up on Raw and what they'll do with series 2, which I hope is only keep the decent stars.

I tactically voted for Alex Riley this week, I'm not sure if him or Lo-Ki would make the better sports entertainer.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 19, 2010)

how mr perfects son doing in nxt?

also rumour has it that tyler black from roh has been signed up for nxt series three, which could be interesting. he is very good in ring, but strikes me as the wrong company for him. I mean he does phoenix splashes(get in jodi!) and stuff.

It amazes me that they keep running out of ideas for edge and jericho, by far the two best in wwe.

dave


----------



## bromley (Aug 19, 2010)

That's the problem with Lo-Ki & Danielson, I get the impression that it's the wrong company for them despite his ring skills. Alex Riley's mic skills are incredible and the gap between him and Lo-Ki is immense. Riley's a WWE man and a potential future champion, I'm a massive fan of his. Danielson got booked on a loosing streak and kicked off the show for a ridiculous reasons, then got fired (legit?) for another stupid reason! I think the roster arranged for him to return and he was booked strong in the main event, all very strange and looked like a bizzare way to annoy the internet fans. I can see Danielson facing Miz at the next ppv for the US title, perhaps with a surprise win and a very short run with the belt. Selfishly I would prefer to see him wrestle again for 60mins in Japan/ROH as that won't happen in WWE. I can't see either him or Lo-Ki raising above the mid-card, which is exactly what I said about CM punk! You do get the impression that they don't have any long term plans with NXT and most of the decisions are made hastily

As for Mr Perfect's son, I don't think he's ready yet. IRA's son IMO is a far better talent but doesn't have the superstar look (he's built like Dusty Roades), it would be a massive shame if they held him back because of this.

The other guy left is Showtime Percy Watson who has a great look, is great on the mic, solid in the ring but has quite a one dimensional character, I can't see him playing a heel. Quite a talent though and like IRA's son (Husky Harris) deserves a shot in the main roster.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2010)

No I havent watched motor city machine guns vs beer money at all yet because I have not bothered with tna for some time. I shall watch at least one of their matches soon but Ive not decided whether I can really face watching TNA properly again yet, too many idiots running that company, really really clueless about their own business.

Tyler Black has indeed signed with WWE, but yeah based on how other decent wrestlers have been treated when debuting via NXT, Id rather they brought him up to the roster a different way.

There are likely multiple reasons why these sorts of great wrestlers struggle in WWE - gotta work the WWE style, Vince clearly has a big man fetish, and rather stupidly the WWE has a record of deliberately not doing what rather vocal fans want.

Im not sure about doing spoilers here but bromleys fears about some of the current nxt guys getting over is probably well founded.

Really not sure I agree with some of the assessments of how much potential some NXT guys have, some of the ones you are praising are really green and will be exposed as no good if they have to wrestle singles matches on tv much. Guys like Percy Watson, Darren Young, David Otunga, Michael Tarver, they just arent that good. Even Wade Barrett and Skip Sheffield leave something to be desired int he ring right now. Some of them may learn quick and be ok, others will need more developmental time, some may just not end up having what it takes to have great matches.

Then there are guys with charisma problems. Heath Slater is ok in the ring but his character is of no interest to me yet. Mr Perfects son can wrestle but he doesnt even begin to have the screen presence of his dad, and it didnt help that they messed with his name. Kinda the same story with Ted Dibiase junior, his run on the main roster is going nowhere due to a black hole of charisma, and in his case his name even works against him because judged against his father he just seems even more of a non-entity. Of all the 2nd or 3rd generation wrestlers that are making it to WWE this century, Randy Orton is the only one I can think of off the top of my head who has really made it to the main event.

The business is certainly suffering due to the loss of the regional territories, not many places to learn the craft really well to the point that you are already polished by the time you get to WWE. Despite this somehow quite a few decent wrestlers emerge, only for either WWE or TNA to mess up the task of turning them into stars.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 19, 2010)

dude IRS not IRA i know taxmen and terrorists are both scum but there is a slight difference!

elbows honestly even if you don't watch any tna ever again watch the mcmg and beer money series. It was class. Very little angles/booking involved just straight up may the best team win(obviously beer money cheat a fair bit though).

Last thing i watched that is on that level series wise was booker t vs benoit aggggeeeees ago. 


dave


----------



## bromley (Aug 19, 2010)

kained&able said:


> dude IRS not IRA i know taxmen and terrorists are both scum but there is a slight difference!


Whoops!  

That series would have been the best of 7 series for a shot at Fit Finlay's WCW TV title at Slamboree '98.


----------



## elbows (Aug 24, 2010)

I watched Impact. If they had kept Dixie off TV and the faces in the feud against Flairs Fortune had been more of the young TNA guys instead of the ECW has-beens, Id really be quite fine with their product at the moment. I actually feel a tiny bit sorry for them this year because they seem to have some long-term booking going on where the fairly incoherent Sting & Nash vs Jarret etc stuff would fit into some of the other storylines & feuds, and people such as Hogan & Bischoff would be revealed as actually being the bad guys. But because of the failure of the Hogan era to boost ratings, and all the fixes they have tried to apply as the years gone on, such as the ECW people coming in, there isnt a huge tide of momentum behind it and the waters have been considerably muddied.

I probably wouldnt mind some of the ECW oldsters being there if only they hadnt made Dixie their leader. WWE making Stephanie the head of ECW during the WCW invasion stuff years ago was bad enough, but Dixie has no place on TV at all, she cant act, doesnt have a range of facial expressions and appears fairly nervous. 

Think Samoa Joe is back from his suspension very soon so hope they do something with him. Original beautiful people back together has happened and is probably a good idea, wonder if they will recapture their former tv magic at some point. 

Serena of the C M Punk Straight Edge society has been fired by WWE, apparently not living up to her gimmick away from the ring, and failed to heed a previous warning about this (eg she may have gotten completely off her face in a hotel bar where other WWE workers were). Oops! Seems a shame for that stable, not that I watch Smackdown these days.

Even worse luck for Skip Sheffield, injured at just the wrong moment, broken ankle apparently, just when he was getting a push. Nexus angle has also gone down hill quite quickly, too early to be sure theyve completely blown it but wouldnt be surprised.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't the serena thing at all. Do they punnish layla for not being a complete bitch at all times? I'm sure she will end up in TNA, apparently a fairly decent wrestler.

I think most of the Ecw will be on very very short deals and it will just end up with a few of em vs fortune, but for now they are included so that fortune(or abyss) will look double tough when they end carears.

I'm watching a lot of the old wrestlemanias at the moment. Wwf seemed well shit untill around number 8. getting into the pre attitude era of the silly job gimmicks(your a dustman you are a taxman etc etc) which is shit but the wesrtling is pretty sweet.

Oh and i've officially decided(i always had my suspicians) bret hart is well over rated. Even after watching a few old matches I know exactly what he is going to do. greatest of all time my arse.

dave


----------



## elbows (Aug 26, 2010)

Wrestlemania 6 was the first one I watched as it happened, and WWF had already been very cartoony for years by then. I found it more entertaining then because I was young, the promos werent so scripted, there were a lot of excellent nutters in the business, and you had characters like Bobby Heenan. And whilst the wrestling was not as fancy as today, the in-ring psychology and storytelling was tons better. Plus satellite telly was new and the whole WWF thing had a big time feel.

Id stopped watching before the end of 1992 and missed the Monday night wars and the best early years of the attitude era, only started watching again around 2000, and really not sure why I bother a lot of the time as it doesnt entertain me as much as it did 6+ years ago.


----------



## elbows (Aug 26, 2010)

And as for Bret Hart, I found him fine as a tag team and upper-mid card level guy,but thankfully had stopped watching before he became a main event feature as he did not interest me as a character all that much. He also loses marks in my book for taking himself so seriously.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 27, 2010)

I wonder when the trend for managers will reemerge. Fuck all about at the minute, last good one was james mitchell. I guess all the wrestlers can speak these days though so less need.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Aug 28, 2010)

just watched impact. Generation me amuse the hell out of me. Flying around all of the place, its great. Hopefully they will pick up the rest of wrestling in a few years and be great but for now they just leave a smile on my face.
Decent impact that.

dave


----------



## bromley (Aug 29, 2010)

Hart's a great wrestler but IMO poor on the stick and doesn't really have a gimmick. At the time with the steroid scandal WWF had very little talent that wasn't blatantly on 'roids. He had been there for years which is probably why he became the chosen one. Personally I don't think he was anywhere near HBK's level and I rate Mr. Perfect above him. IMO Mr Perfect & The Million Dolar man are the best wrestlers never to get the belt. Funny enough when Hart left the WWF things started to pick up for them. I don't think he could fit in to the attitude era.

NXT was great this week, they had a quiz and a Cody Rhodes V John Morrison match. 

I've been re-watching a lot of 1999 WCW recently, booked by Kevin Nash! The lack of direction is hilarious at times, likewise the way they continue to try and bury Flair.


----------



## elbows (Aug 30, 2010)

RIP Luna Vachon. I wasnt watching Wrestling very much when she was on the telly but I saw bits of her neat the end of her run, quite a character.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 31, 2010)

luna used to scare me! i cant believe ted snr never got the belt! Trying to think of someone else and best i can come up with is christian.


1999 wcw used to piss me off but luckily the scheduling in this country was genius. 8-9pm watch jericho, rey, eddie etc on wcw and just as the nwo start having matches i dont care about raw would start. Only problem was i missed a lot of sting.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 2, 2010)

Should have added burying Goldberg, their only real draw.

WCW's undercard (excluding the likes of The Cat, Jerry Flynn, Van Hammer, Prince Iakay) and cruiserweight division was something else, a ppv would usually included 2 cruiserweight matches and be main evented by a couple of names from the 80s who were well past their prime. 

If you missed the main event on Nitro you only missed an NWO running leading to a DQ, it got so annoying that fans would belt the ring with bottles & rubbish, by 2000 they had given up. The only time I can think of a reaction like that in WWE was when HBK won the European title in London! 

Luna was probably the best female heel I can think of R.I.P.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 2, 2010)

sensational sherri surely!

watched wrestlemania 9 last night. Not bad. Production values make me laugh though, they changed quickly! Crush match was shit but otherwise fairly decent, other then tatanka who was shit.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 2, 2010)

Sherri's a great shout! 

I never got Tatanka, fuck knows why they resigned him. His turn at Summerslam '94 was one of the gayest things to occur in wrestling, and considering that it used to involve men wrestling in lycra that's saying something! The dance thing comes close though.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 3, 2010)

The thing i'd forgotten about all the older skool wrestling is how many of em udsed to "hulk up" hogan, tatanka, undertkaer, ultimate warrior, then you had hawk no selling pile drivers and i'm sure there were others too.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Sep 5, 2010)

tna ppv on tonight!!!! Not expetcing much though they are building for bound for glory so none of the feuds are proper hot yet.

Just watched wrestlemania 10. Really really good mtach netween owen and bret, loved it! Only problem i had was bret managing to roll out the way of a top rope headbut 4 secs after being tombstoned. I mean really??

Rest of the card was fairly solid apart from the womens match. Even bam bam and luna vs doink and dink didn't stink for what it was, bam bam was very good. Oh actually i tell a lie Men on a mission(moe and what would become viscera) against the quebeckers was absoulte pony.

Hadn't watched the hall vs shawn miocheals ladder match for a while, its very interesting to see how far that match has come on in 15 years and very intresting to see what moves that they basicly invented are still done. Really good match but quite dated.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 6, 2010)

WMX was great because the shite matches don't last long leaving extra time for the good ones! Summerslam '95 is meant to have the better ladder match, but I haven't seen it myself.

As for the no sell, it amazes me that people who don't like wrestling feel the need to point out it's fake, as if the fans must all think it's real. Get a 2 year old to watch a Hogan match and they'll tell you it's not a real fight!

I'm liking Alberto Del Rio & London Brawling!


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2010)

Somethings gone wrong with London Brawling behind the scenes already, as they were not on the PPV apparently. Last weeks Impact was pretty poor really, they always seem to drop the ball after they've had a good show. Not watched WWE for weeks, though Im meaning to check out Alberto Del Rio as I hear his facial expressions are gold.

Jim the Anvil Neidhart arrested with a load of pills he had been stealing from neighbours. Sounds like another sad wreck who was owned by the road decades ago.


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2010)

And god damn it I was actually intregued by the next series of NXT due to the giant 6 foot 9 woman that was going to be on it, but they have pulled her from the show before it even began (far too green I think, probably sent her to developmental to get a clue and will hopefully put her to good use later).


----------



## bromley (Sep 6, 2010)

I'll be surprised if the all female version of NXT is anything other than a disaster. I'll watch the first episode hoping for some actual wrestling but expecting a shitty diva search.

Alberto Del Rio's facial expressions are the best thing in wrestling today, thank god they didn't re-mask him! 





How could you not want to smack that arrogant look off of his face?!

Impact is filled with lots of filler, mainly about how awesome the company is with several references to the fans and how it has all been achieved in 8 years. They also have a very long advert for the British tour, again making reference to how awesome the fans are.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 7, 2010)

London brawling were pulled for 'personal reasons' no idea what yet.

Tna ppv had three good matches, the hardy vs angle match was amazing!!! The rhino abyss match was very good and the gen me vs motor city was as good as i expected. Alex shelly is fast becoming my favourite wrestler.

Rest of it was pretty shit or fairly average.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 8, 2010)

A couple of non-spoiler things that happened on Raw this week.

1) The money in the briefcase opened and it's empty inside!
2) They had a camera shot behind the laptop and there was a script!

I'm really bored with Nexus now, I wish all but 2 of them would go back to Florida.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 8, 2010)

which two?


----------



## bromley (Sep 8, 2010)

kained&able said:


> which two?


Wade Barret, who has the worse finisher i've ever seen! And some guy called Bryan Danielson.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 8, 2010)

has danielson rejoined nexus then? I thought we was fighting on the wwe side?

And yeah barret's finisher is terrible it looks weak.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 9, 2010)

kained&able said:


> has danielson rejoined nexus then? I thought we was fighting on the wwe side?
> 
> And yeah barret's finisher is terrible it looks weak.
> 
> dave


He hasn't, I meant NXT series 1 instead of nexus. Same thing! 

Not only does his finish look very gentle, but it can only be done to certain wrestlers, he nearly injured Mark Henry doing it.


----------



## bromley (Sep 9, 2010)

kained&able said:


> has danielson rejoined nexus then? I thought we was fighting on the wwe side?
> 
> And yeah barret's finisher is terrible it looks weak.
> 
> dave


He hasn't, I meant NXT series 1 instead of nexus. Same thing! 

Not only does his finish look very gentle, but it can only be done to certain wrestlers, he nearly injured Mark Henry doing it.


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2010)

I checked out Smackdown from the other week, yes Alberto seems to have what it takes to entertain.

The new season of NXT is quite awful, almost saved by the presence of Golddust and Vickie Guerrero,and maybe some of the rookie women will become stars, but I cant imagine watching it for many weeks before the terrible wrestling gets to me too much, many accidents waiting to happen.

Kevin Nash apparently went nutty on twitter and from what he was saying the end to his TNA days seem near.

London Brawling lost their spot likely either due to one of them being naughty, or perhaps Wolfe has a medical issue again (think WWE rejected him due to some worrying brain issues but the details never been revealed)


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2010)

Hogans brain goes wibble in the hospital and thanks to modern technology we get to see it the way the Hulkster wants it. To be honest, this is almost the most Hogan has entertained me for decades.

http://www.twitvid.com/65TZ2


----------



## bromley (Sep 12, 2010)

Just tried to watch impact, instead I saw an episode of _reaction_, the biggest load of old tosh I've seen for a long time! Any idea what time impact is on?

This is interesting....


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2010)

I dont think there was an Impact last week, the US network cancelled it for a week as it was up against some very highly rated sports program on another channel (maybe american football, not sure).


----------



## kained&able (Sep 13, 2010)

Yeah first game of the new NFL season i think, they would have got slaughtered.

They are fucking idiots though. They are trying to build up to their biggest ppv of the year and they have lost a week. They should have just chucked a replay of it on the tuesday or something. Unless they are doing to do a three hour impact to make up for it or something.

I watched a reaction the other week, never again! Feux shoot stuff tends to piss me off at the best of times let alone for a whole hour!

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 13, 2010)

kained&able said:


> Yeah first game of the new NFL season i think, they would have got slaughtered.
> 
> They are fucking idiots though. They are trying to build up to their biggest ppv of the year and they have lost a week. They should have just chucked a replay of it on the tuesday or something. Unless they are doing to do a three hour impact to make up for it or something.
> 
> ...


It went on for 2 hours! I can't believe the idea wasn't laughed at during the meeting, very worrying!


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2010)

It wasnt TNA's choice I dont think, it was Spike their US TV channel that called the shots on cancelling last weeks show.

There is a live Impact coming up on something like 7th October, to build for the 10/10 ppv 'they' revelations, which I think could well be a Hogan, Jarrett & Bischoff heel turn (not that Bischoff was a face to start with).

Its pretty stupid that RVD is back before they have crowned a new champion via the tournament.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 13, 2010)

I reckon 'they' is going to be paul heyman and possibly james mitchell/judas messias. if its hogan/bischoff i'm going to be annoyed.

very stupid bringing rvd back already because the extent of his injuries, i was expecting him to turn up at bound for glory and attack abyss or something though. But now is just silly. No point in stripping him of the title at all.

dave


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 13, 2010)

I think 'they' will be Randy Savage, Ultimate Warrior and... Dink.

Heard it here first


----------



## kained&able (Sep 13, 2010)

its 'the warrior' these days cam. By depol and everything. The facist loonspud!

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 13, 2010)

Whilst I agree that warrior is a fascist and a maniac, you only have to look at EV2.0 to see why he renamed himself. Although the dvd title shows that it didn't work!

I honestly couldn't care who _they _are, bound to be something stupid like Jeff Hardy. I also think they went too far with the Janice thing and stripping him of the title.


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2010)

I bought the Ring of Honour internet ppv on Saturday night - there were some production problems but some really very good wrestling.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 14, 2010)

I got that downloading at the moment but know the about the big return! BRRRRAP.

Tyler blacks last match being able to wrestle properly as well.


dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 17, 2010)

Anyone see NXT this week?

Thought not! 

Cole did some strange shoot when he started banging a gong (no idea) before telling everyone how much the show sucked over the mic.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2010)

I saw it, it is currently strangely compelling train-wreck tv, although it wont be the same at all without Michael Cole announcing, Im assuming he wont be announcing next week.

The gong was in reference to old US tv show 'the gong show' where amateurs of dubious talent performed for judges, and if the act was very bad a judge could strike a gong to stop the performer in their tracks. 

Somas (a muscle relaxing drug) are now completely banned in WWE, even if wrestlers have a prescription for them, probably due to recent events involving Matt Hardy. This might save some lives in time because its one of the drugs that has been majorly abused in wrestling for more than 20 years.

TNA is in danger of losing their UK tv audience as Sky have announced that they are closing down Bravo.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2010)




----------



## kained&able (Sep 17, 2010)

ooooh that could be bad for em. UK market is huge for tna.

dave


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2010)

They could find another channel but they will be rather lucky if it has the profile of Bravo.


----------



## bromley (Sep 17, 2010)

Cole completely buried the show, Vicky Guerrero was the only decent thing on it. 

Will be nice to read about it on wrestlecrap in the not so distant future.


----------



## bromley (Sep 21, 2010)

I wonder if Orton can be the number 1 face in WWE or will they keep the relentless pushing of Cena?

Did they say the next ppv is in 2 weeks time?  That means there will be 2 ppvs in October (Hell in a cell and bragging rights). No doubt Miz will be using his briefcase soon.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 21, 2010)

i would assume after hell in a cell, thats the standard isn't it? I bet he fucks it up.

dave


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2010)

Cena makes them a lot of money as a face but I dont think its completely out of the question that they would try turning him heel one day.

Jericho is either leaving WWE for good or taking a long break it seems.

Yes there is another ppv in 2 weeks, Im not paying all that much attention to what is going on at the moment though, certainly not bothering to watch any WWE ppvs at the moment, not sure what they could do to restore my interest.

Hogan is back in the hospital with back problems, a real race against time for him to be capable of anything come TNAs big 10-10-10 angle.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 21, 2010)

think the back problems is one of the reasons dixie has been seeing tv time. Can't see any other good reason, she is is woeful on the mic.

Still watching the wwe ppv's but not been excited by one for a while now. Skim read all the raw and smackdown results as well.

Tna is pissing me off at the minute as they are fucking up thier tag division. There are no teams left!, especially with the dudleys futures up in the air at the minute.

Bring in the briscoes goddanm it!!!

dave


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2010)

Its probably nit their fault that London Brawling havent materialised as a team, it sounds like the health woes which prevented Nigel McWolfie from signing with WWE have reared their head again, that man abused himself too much in ROH, and perhaps has permanent head trauma.

Dixie isnt seeing TV time because of Hogans back, its all part of the plan Im afraid, decided well before Hogans latest back issues. I fear that angle is going in the direction Ive alluded to previously, for example Hogan, Bischoff and Jarret being heels and Dixie being involved with the brave fightback against the evil by younger TNA stars and probably whats left of EV2.0. She should never be an on-air character but as the money comes from her family there are probably people in the back who have encouraged her to 'become a star' because they think it will keep her happy in some way. Anyway I hope Im wrong or that they change their mind again.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 23, 2010)

watched night of champions last night. have to say was fairly impressed.

Dolf ziggler has come along way, although i'm not convinced by kofi. CM punk was superb, miz/bryan was great, who knew miz could wrestle! Tag match was shit although the usos werent as shit s i was lead to believe. Taker/kane was as good as expected, divas was a toss match. Overall not bad at all. Just gotta watch the main event.

That hell in the cell hype vid was umm interesting though. Can't believe they did that. Comparing natural disasters complete with waters taking out houses etc to the cage. Seriously?

dave


----------



## elbows (Sep 23, 2010)

Apparently there is a reason for me to watch Smackdown this week, a return that has nostalgia value, Paul Bearer!


----------



## kained&able (Sep 23, 2010)

yeah i heard that. How the fuck are they going to explain him surviving being buried alive in cement?

I also look forward to the urn despite is being in karma's(godfather) possession as a necklace(if i remember correctly)

dave


----------



## elbows (Sep 23, 2010)

They gave up even bothering to explain most 'plot holes' years ago.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 23, 2010)

does make you wonder weather wrestling writers would have the talent to get a job on even the most lowly of soaps.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 23, 2010)

It was an alright ppv, I fast forwarded the Kane V Undertaker and lumberjills match. I enjoyed the Bryan Daniel V Miz match and CM Punk's promo! 

WWE's product has been very meh for a while now. I think Cena's wrestling is underrated but his promos are dreadful, a main event involving him rarely interests me and the way he has received a bigger pushes than wrestlers I deem as being more worth it does annoy me somewhat. I also can't stand the nexus, the divas and the pointless celebrity shite. I want to see actual wrestling, re-watching old Nitros (pre-russo) allows me to see some great matches, they had a Booker T V Canyon match that went on nearly 20 minutes! I also can't think of many decent storylines that WWE has had recently and the way their resort to rehashing the past reeks of desperation. Their PG-13 rating holds them back a lot as well. Don't even start me on TNA! I wonder if wrestling will ever get back to how good it used to be during the ratings war, perhaps people wondered the same in '95? Perhaps ROH will be the new ECW! 

Is Hogan's injury legit or one of his wcw ones where he would get injured before the ratings were due to plumet (eg start of a new sport season) and return just as they were about to rise again, then claim the credit? 

Try explaining why Sting joined the Wolfpac.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 23, 2010)

no ones better then kanyon!! I may well join you in older wcw once im done with the wrestlemani thing. That or every royal rumble. Who can tell.

think its a legit injury for hogan his back be fucked up. 

Not pg-13 straight pg! Tna is pg-13.

Punks promo was near perfect. I love listning too wwe crowds to hear the difference in reactions between those with bass in thier voice and the kidz. Chi-town is a proper wrestling town!

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 23, 2010)

There was a HBK V Austin match on raw when they were the tag team champs, high pitch cheers for HBK and loutish roars for Austin! 

The New Jersey Triad was all kinds of awesome, shame they didn't stay together that long or get pushed properly. Two of them are no longer with us and the other doesn't want anything to do with wrestling anymore, probably due to The Undertaker. Revolution were another great short lived stable, kind of like the prequel to the Radicals. We were spoilt back then! 

My secret wrestling torrent site, which I'm guessing is the same as yours, as the complete WCW 98 & 99. Both are something stupid like 90gb!


----------



## kained&able (Sep 23, 2010)

my ratio wont be good enough to download one of the big packs like that.  Could be the same, but might not be, there are few around. Most of em have exactly the same stuff on em though.

Who were jersey triad and revolution?? Not names i know.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 23, 2010)

New Jersey Triad - DDP, Bam Bam Bigelow & Kanyon

Revolution - Chris Benoit, Shane Douglas, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn.


Not bad are they.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 24, 2010)

I loved bam bam. Watching a few of his matches as part of wrestlemania. The man manged to make lawerence taylor not look entirely shite. Impressive!

dave


----------



## 1927 (Sep 24, 2010)

Why is this in the sports forum?


----------



## kained&able (Sep 24, 2010)

^^been a while.


dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 24, 2010)

It will be moved when the sports entertainment sub-forum is created.

Bam Bam and Vader were the best big men IMO, Big Show has impressed me a lot over the last few years.


----------



## El Sueno (Sep 24, 2010)

Bam Bam's run in ECW was monster, they used him to the fullest of his abilities - his matches with Taz were fucking awesome.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 24, 2010)

what is the official definition of big man? Does the undertaker count?

Big show is great although hate the look he had for the punk match.

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Sep 24, 2010)

When Paul Heyman was booking for WWE briefly he tried to utilise Big Show to his full potential, there were a few weeks where he came on with a newly shaved head and just swept everyone in his path into oblivion. Then Vinny put him in a fucking dress or some shit and he was back to square one...


----------



## bromley (Sep 24, 2010)

Yeah, he put him in a nappy at wrestlemania, still yet to see that match and I think it will stay that way.

Big man is any one who the commentators make reference to their size. Bam Bam wasn't that tall but was still a big man due to his bulk. The Undertaker who isn't as good as Bam Bam is therefore also a big man. 

Bam Bam's baldness was caused by burns he suffered saving lives in a blaze, the flames tattooed on his head were probably related to the incident as well. Not once did he use his heroics to get himself over.

On a different note, push John Morrison!!


----------



## elbows (Sep 24, 2010)

The really big men who couldnt necessarily wrestle very well were far easier to book successfully as 'special attractions' back in the territory days and when everything wasnt hinged around national tv. You could make good money with an Andre The Giant type and keep them strong (in terms of their characters rep, people not getting sick of them, and not having them job out too much), by moving them from territory to territory every few months. Not so easy these days, though I still dont mind seeing 'special attractions' who cant work that well, so long as its in small doses and their freakish aspect is put to good use in building storylines & matches. So Im kinda sad that giant woman who they were going to have on NXT didnt make it at all, even though I never anticipated ever getting a decent match out of her.


----------



## bromley (Sep 25, 2010)

If she wasn't ready for NXT she must have only just taken up wrestling!


----------



## elbows (Sep 25, 2010)

Speaking of big men who couldnt work well, sad to report that Giant Gonzalez has died today aged just 44.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 25, 2010)

sorry bam bam is better then undertaker? really? i put undertaker very near the top of the GOAT list, admitedly a large part of that is his gimmick and entrance but still he is quality.

Right. Randy ortan a face?? When the fuck did that happen and how is he getting such a big pop? Must have been a hell of a promo otherwise it just makes no sense. No image change, style change, entrance change or anything?

I'm confused.

Tna had a proper amazonania for a bit, she was shit though. I miss awesome kong, but its hard to book her i guess, once the top face beats them what is there for the freaks, well other then rey mysterio david vs golliath type fueds but aint many girls who can pull that off. Im sure she will ne back in a few years, i mean how many runs did viscera have in the wwe?


dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 26, 2010)

Orton received a massive reaction at Wrestlemania, it would have been foolish to keep him heel or mess about with his gimmick. It's very stone cold like when he claims to not care what the fans think which gives him a bad guy face reaction, the complete contract to Cena who tries his hardest to get the fans to like him.

The only move that 'taker does that impresses me is his top rope plunger, which Mike Awesome (who I also rate as better than 'taker!) did a lot better. I would definitely have Bam Bam over 'taker, kicking out of a HBK's finishing moves doesn't make for a 5* match. Kurt Angle & Ric Flair could carry a mop to a 5* match which is why they're the first names on my GOAT list.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 26, 2010)

Completely irrelevant, but I've just discovered that Wade Barrett is only 6 days older than me.

What have I been doing with my life


----------



## kained&able (Sep 26, 2010)

kurt makes my top 5 but i don't get flair at all. Can't remember more then two matches of his i've thought were amazing. One was his retirement match with hbk, which was great and the other one against eddie geurro, which was just class, although i let eddie take all the credit. I love watching eddie.

Cam I get that with footballers all the time. Its worrying that a lot of my idols are younger then me!

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 27, 2010)

kained&able said:


> kurt makes my top 5 but i don't get flair at all. Can't remember more then two matches of his i've thought were amazing. One was his retirement match with hbk, which was great and the other one against eddie geurro, which was just class, although i let eddie take all the credit. I love watching eddie.
> 
> Cam I get that with footballers all the time. Its worrying that a lot of my idols are younger then me!
> 
> dave


Flair is an absolute God of wrestling, there's a massive gap between him and the 2nd best of all time. You need to see him wrestle in his prime (1980s) to understand why, back then he would sometimes wrestle 2 cities in one night. Some of his matches against Steamboat are considered the best of all time which is some feat when you consider how far wrestling as moved on (watch the wrestlemania 3 IC title match for evidence of that). He wrestled on way after his best days were over and yet still put on the match of the night most nights, he was 59 when he wrestled HBK!! He probably also put in the best Royal Rumble performance ever at the age of 42. Also for extra smart internet points he put over more people than anyone has ever done, he made Sting look like the best wrestler in the early 90s when it looked like Flair's time was up. Also the 4 horseman are my fav stable. The best of all time.

WOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## elbows (Sep 27, 2010)

Some people arent too high on Flair because his matches are usually extremely similar, his spots being rather predictable. But the sheer energy the man brings, along with knowing how to make his opponent look great and how to get the best psychological & storytelling effect out of his routine spots, makes him great even without considering his longeivity, all the classics, and what he did for the business. He probably should have retired a year before he actually did in WWE, and should not have returned, but Flair lived his gimmick, needs the money and I dont think his life is much without wrestling.Considering his age he is still a great worker but he cant quite manage the typical flair match that he could still acheive even 5 years ago, and seeing him go bald is just not right, its not fair to flair


----------



## bromley (Sep 27, 2010)

The Flair flop, top rope failure (won't mention the corner somersault as that's all kinds of awesome!) were all done towards the end of his career (which has lasted 20 years!) when he was was putting talent over. Don't get me wrong it is a very fair criticism of Flair!  Some say he tarnished his career by going on for so long after his prime, I disagree he was and still is a massive draw.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 28, 2010)

Great gimmick/persona i guess my main problem was he was in his prime during and era of wrestling i dislike. Only care about sting, steamboat(kinda) and dynnamite kid from the 80's really. What Flair does he clearly does very well but lack of submission/technical ability kinda ruins him for me.

Huge influence on lots of wrestlers though.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 28, 2010)

His gimmick and persona were stolen from Buddy Rogers (X-pac did an excellent shoot on nitro regarding this) kind of like how Muhammed Ali stole Gorgeous George's (Not the Macho man's former stripper girlfriend, but the other one) gimmick.

I'm surprised that Steamboat got a kinda, I would rate him over Sting, I would also say he was quite technical and linked a lot of moves together in his better days before his matches became a chop-fest, it makes me cringe seeing him bleed so often in TNA.

And I'm 5 months older than Barrett.


----------



## bromley (Sep 28, 2010)

Just saw a long segment on Raw about Cena doing publicity for his new film, it finished with an image saying available on dvd from Walmart next week!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 9, 2010)

Just flicked over to TNA to see Rik Flair elbow drop Mick Foley's book.

What...


----------



## elbows (Oct 9, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Just flicked over to TNA to see Rik Flair elbow drop Mick Foley's book.
> 
> What...


 
He has elbow dropped his own jacket from time to time. And this is how books are plugged in the world of wrestling 2010 style. Personally I found Edge destroying a laptop to be more amusing.

WWE have managed to breathe life into the Nexus angle again, lets see if they can maintain momentum for more than a few weeks this time.

Paul Bearer can hardly move, and the Undertaker is reaching the end of his career so the feud with Kane is not going so well, quite painful to watch at times. I still popped for the nostalgia aspects though.

On Sunday we will find out if TNA have been trying to work the internet fans using social media, and Hogans hospital videos will turn out to be a large part of his heel turn, or whether he really is knackered and they've had to change the plan slightly.


----------



## bromley (Oct 10, 2010)

Is Bound for glory on tv tonight?

It seems Del Rio isn't going to get the big push any more, he was very disappointing when he was a guess commentator, perhaps that's part of the reason?


----------



## kained&able (Oct 10, 2010)

also see if they have been playing us with kurt angle and the dudleys.

I have to say im not really looking foward to this ppv. The card is okay and i'm sure there will be some good matches but it strikes me that none of the feuds are hot enough. With the possible exception of fortune/ev 2 i can't realy see any of them being ended tommrow,which is just poor booking really considering its meant to be a the big ppv of the year.

Interestingly i was watching a recent ROH ppv with chris daniels competing on it and he shhhh'd the crowd down when a fuck TNA chant started up, I don't think he is quite done with TNA yet. Which is nice as I tink he is great.

How is lo-ki doing in wwe saw his name on a smackdown report and considered downloading it for the first time in months.



dave


----------



## kained&able (Oct 10, 2010)

doesn't look like you can see the ppv over here untill friday or possibly tuesday if you have bt vision.

Justin.tv etc normally has it live though, or the normal sources tommrow morning.


dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 10, 2010)

kained&able said:


> Interestingly i was watching a recent ROH ppv with chris daniels competing on it and he shhhh'd the crowd down when a fuck TNA chant started up, I don't think he is quite done with TNA yet. Which is nice as I tink he is great.
> 
> How is lo-ki doing in wwe saw his name on a smackdown report and considered downloading it for the first time in months.
> 
> dave


 
Im sure Daniels wants to keep his options open but that doesnt mean TNA are interested in taking him back at the moment.

Last time I saw Lo-ki he lost against Chavo, which doesnt give me any hope that WWE will use him properly.

As for tonights ppv, years ago it used to be that no matter how rubbish TNAs tv was, you could be sure of lots of good matches on their ppvs. That not the case anymore, and really they are trying to get people to pay to see a storyline unfold, '10-10-10 They reveal themselves' in this case. Im moderately interested to see if its the Hogan Jarrett Bischoff heel turn, but not enough to stay up till 4am.

Sounds like Nash is done with TNA and tonight is likely his last night, unless its another swerve using the wrestlers personal twitter accounts.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 10, 2010)

i reckon the nash thing is true. i've also got a feeling abut something a bit unexpected happeninging in that match. A handicap match doesn't seem right. Has shelton benjamins non compete clasuserun out yet??

I don't see it being a bichoff, jarret and hogan heel turn. My money is still on paul heyman, although wouldn't be shocked to see jarrett turning heel to try and get the power he once had or something.


dave


----------



## kained&able (Oct 11, 2010)

just started watching bound for glory. Gen me vs machine guns. Oh my fucking god!!! Sick.

rest of the ppv was alright, nothing really stunk but nothing else made me go wow.


dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2010)

I thought you said you would be annoyed if Jarrett, Hogan & Bischoff turned heel? At least there was one thing I didnt expect, Jeff Hardy turning heel, but I expect it may suck and is a silly gamble on their part.

As for your previous hope that 'They' would be Paul Heyman, he isnt stupid enough to join the doomed at TNA.


----------



## bromley (Oct 13, 2010)

bromley said:


> Whilst I agree that warrior is a fascist and a maniac, you only have to look at EV2.0 to see why he renamed himself. Although the dvd title shows that it didn't work!
> 
> I honestly couldn't care who _they _are, bound to be something stupid like Jeff Hardy. I also think they went too far with the Janice thing and stripping him of the title.


I called it back on the 13th September (post 177!), the rubbish thrown in the ring wasn't Kayfabe, a lot of people were pissed with how little sense it made and how shite the angle will be.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 14, 2010)

I am annoyed by it, although like the hardy thing, i was just trying not to spoil. 

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 14, 2010)

The only way to make an angle like that work which has been built up for months is to have a returning/débuting star. A 1990s turn like that isn't entertaining any more and predictable (SWERVE~!). I can't think of the last turn in WWE (Orton's become a face without changing a thing or having a turn) it's such a dated thing to do unless done very well (BATB '96, the rubbish thrown that night was kayfabe!) 

I doubt Hardy will make a decent heel but will give the storyline a chance.

Also annoyied with how RVD was able to jump to the top rope after going through a barb wire board moments earlier and the finish to Douglas V Lethal.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2010)

bromley said:


> Also annoyied with how RVD was able to jump to the top rope after going through a barb wire board moments earlier and the finish to Douglas V Lethal.


 
Thats certainly a good example of whats wrong with wrestling these days - everything has been made cheap and meaningless. They often dont sell big moves properly anymore, vastly reducing their impact. Just because people know that wrestling is fake, doesnt mean that it should just become a cartoon - people want to e able to suspend their disbelief and when the action in the ring or the storylines are made to be this weak, it becomes hard. Likewise championship belts have been eroded to the point of being made almost meaningless, either by bullshit screwjob belt changes, having your tag team or IC champ squashed by a main-eventer (see Daniel Brian on raw the other week), or changing the titleholder far too often.

kained&able, I may be wrong but my attitude towards spoilers is just to wait a couple of days and then let rip - I doubt there are too many people here interested in this thread and I would hope that anyone trying to avoid spoilers would avoid such threads. In this case I waited till I heard that youd watched the ppv. I'll rethink my approach if someone complains.

Almost more entertaining right now than the TNA Hardy storyline is Matt Haryds sad attempts to get released from WWE so he can go to TNA and ride on his brothers coattails. Its hard to tell if this is the whole story or if he also had some drug and mental health issues going on, but if I were WWE I would try to keep him in limbo for as long as possible, not that I think they have anything to fear from him going to TNA.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 14, 2010)

hardy did similar last time he was released from wwe. I have no idea how much is him playing and how much is him cracking up.

Oh yeah spoil away after ppv's just i posted the day after, so didn't want to give too much away.

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 14, 2010)

I avoided this thread until I saw bound for glory so don't worry about spoilers. I don't think Matt should join TNA, it would be a bad move for him as he'll inevitably need to return to WWE. Perhaps he just wants to win a title?

Sheamus did put on a proper match with Danielson this week, the match just after hell in a cell was very odd.

Another WWE PPV coming up soon, only 3 weeks after hell in a cell and 5 after whatever was before that. Bragging rights is another complete waste of time, no one cares about the brand split as people jump back and forth so often and Smackdown is recorded in the same arena the night after raw! Too many PPVs and a brand split that no one cares about, this is with Cena is why WWE has been so poor over the last decade.


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2010)

Even worse they put no effort towards trying to make the brand split meaningful - CM Punk and Edge have switched brands in the last few weeks, they could easily have waited and made at least one of these moves part of the Bragging rights ppv storyline (eg the winning side gets a top wrestler) but no they are just clueless.

Yes I think this weeks Sheamus-Danielson match was a realisation that they messed up the week before. 

Too many pay-per-views is certainly a big part of the problem. Cant imagine them going back down to 4 a year but they could easily halve the number and have more time to build stuff up. Likewise whilst they should not return to the days of only having squash matches on tv, they let the opponents fight eachother too much (eg in tag matches) before the matches we are supposed to want to pay to see, the art of the buildup is lost. Anyway their buyrates for ppvs in the US are really dwindling, partly due to the economy I suspect, but I bet before too long they will panic and make some changes, but knowing them the changes could easily make things worse.

Terrible problems building new generation of stars too, partly due to parity booking where nobody is allowed a good long undefeated run to make them strong, partly due to Vinces big man fetish and a bias against people who became popular elsewhere, but largely due to the loss of the old territory system where wrestlers used to learn their trade properly over many years.


----------



## bromley (Oct 14, 2010)

I think Vince's big man fetish is a thing of the past. Cena, Orton and Edge have been his biggest stars of recent years. The steroid scandal was the beginning of the end of that fetish. Bias against people who were popular elsewhere? Punk's had the strap a few times and Danielson is the current US champ. Proper territories died out in the 1980s and most of the first generation stars learnt their craft there. Sheamus, Barrett and McIntyre were in all in the UK scene a couple of years ago. The lack of proper competition isn't good, TNA really should ignore the past (EV2.0) and WWE and do their own thing if they want to compete properly, you can't rush things. 

The brand split is horrible, to make it work properly they should stop anyone from wrestling on the other show or being traded for a year or so.


----------



## bromley (Oct 14, 2010)

WCW 1998 download complete!


----------



## kained&able (Oct 15, 2010)

i reckon cena counts as a big man. Also he keeps tending to push people like batista which suggests that he like em big still. Theres certainly a lot of smaller guys who struggle to get above the mid card despite clearly being talented, the lack of cuiser weight title is silly.

WWE should definitely stop bringing people through so quickly, maybe let the FCW guys do tours with the indys or over seas or whatever, give em a bit more experience before being called up to the main roster. The farm system doesn't really work.

dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2010)

Apparently they had a much better developmental system, in terms of the talent it produced, back in the OVW days. They had TV, they did a regular house show circuit. But politics and the usual bullshit lead to then abandoning OVW as a dev territory and FCW does not have a good rep in comparison.

I really dont think Vinces big man thing has gone away, he had to tone down certain aspects of it due to the steroids issue but as you point out its still rather hard to get anywhere near the top unless you have a certain look, at least in terms of height if not muscle. Its not 100% Vinces fault, large swathes of the audience have been conditioned to want their top stars larger than life, WWE is largely to blame for this but it will be hard for them to completely undo this quickly, may take a generation. No excuse for not trying though, and burials of Lo-ki and Bryan Danielson tend to show that they have no intention of even trying.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2010)

Also Vince couldnt take Rey seriously as champ due to his size, and as a result he had very weak runs as champ, being buried constantly. C M Punks reign was also treated as a bit of a joke and he went straight back down to the mid-card.

Lets hope their current woes in terms of buyrates and lack of new talent force them to change this.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2010)

Ona  related note Lance Cades autopsy results came back as the usual mix of enlarged heart due to steroid use coupled with accidental overdose of a couple of pain drugs. Lunas came back as accidental overdose of a couple of drugs.


----------



## bromley (Oct 15, 2010)

I had forgotten all about Batista already! 

The way they booked Rey was criminal, getting squashed by the Great Khali whilst being the champion, odd and goes to show I was wrong to claim he lost his fetish!


----------



## kained&able (Oct 16, 2010)

ovw was run by cornette untill he got fired for slapping santimo morella in the face for laughig at the boogie man(shittest gimmick ever??) rather then acting scared. FACT LOL.

Matt hardy has officially been future endevored.  Guess the only question will be in 90 days time will he be a hell or a face in TNA?


dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2010)

Hardy got his release partly by posting video showing Rey unmasked backstage. I dont like this bloke, he is a mark for himself.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 16, 2010)

i dont get the big deal about showing rey unmasked to be honest. I know its a no no in luchdor circles but he wrestled for ages without it when he was part of the filthy animals in wcw(and didn't wear it again before he debuted in wwe as far as i remember, certainly didn't in this cm punk vs rey match i have from around that time) so its not that disrespectful.

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 16, 2010)

I think it's actually disrespectful that he wears it after loosing it to the Mexican tag team legends of Nash & Luger. I can't think of any Luchadores who have remasked. The release is probably due to him being a dickhead rather than breaking kayfabe.

Expect Hardy to get the strap later this year before slipping back to the mid-card in true TNA fashion.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 16, 2010)

yeah i was wondering if he lost it properly! Thats considered a complete no no isn't it!

If matt comes in as a face he will clearly get the title but i woul have thought he will align with his bother and so won't. 

dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2010)

I didnt mean its disrespectful, but its certainly a no-no as far as WWE is concerned.


----------



## bromley (Oct 17, 2010)

I thought Impact was quite good this week, what a shocker! I thought they explained the turn quite well and Hardy played the heel better than I thought he would.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 17, 2010)

I had  abit of confidence jeff could pull it off. Right before he left wwe he had almost a joker from the last batman film thing going on. I could see him turning into some sort of physcopath in that storyline and he seems to going that way now.

Impact was good considering how ew matches there were.


dave


----------



## kained&able (Oct 24, 2010)

another good impact this week. bruce pritchard has joined the team and i think its fair to say is having a psoitive effect on things. Was shocked when he left wwe.

How the hell is there another wwe ppv today?? its madness.


dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 25, 2010)

Far too many PPVs, I'm surprised that they can get away with it, surely there can't be too many fans who buy every one of them?


----------



## bromley (Oct 26, 2010)

I saw Bragging rights, very average but some nice twists.

I'm impressed with Cody Rhodes mic skills, he's upped his game with his new gimmick.

Dolph Ziggler also looks very good now and had a great match against Danielson.

Matt Striker is the best announcer since Mike Tenay!


----------



## kained&able (Oct 26, 2010)

yeah striker is very good. I did love it when jbl was commenating. he was good.

Have dolph and vickie been broken up yet?? Its the mian thing that stops me liking him. There is no excuse for vickie being in wwe.

read the results for bragging rights dont think ill be downloading it, sounded a bit shit. Besides i still havent got round to watching hell in cell.

Was watching wreslemania 16 last night. I never realised how shit chyna was at the time. Also seems very strange to see kurt angle with hair! It's just wrong.

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 26, 2010)

Undertaker, Brock Lesnar Exchange Words Following UFC 121.

Work!

I've always found it wrong to see Austin with hair, or Jarrett with long blond hair.


----------



## elbows (Oct 27, 2010)

Vince wanted a one time deal with Lesnar to face Undertaker at the next Wrestlemania (undertakers career is nearly over so they want a dramatic way to end his streak).

However it would require the permission of Dana White and he is understandably not up for it so there is very little chance of it happening, in fact the idea already seems to be dead.

As for 'There is no excuse for vickie being in wwe' - balls - she gets great heat in the arenas and is the closest thing they have to the sorely missed 'heel manager' role of yesteryear.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 27, 2010)

Other then that excuse me line she does nothing!

James Mitchell was the last decent manager.

dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 27, 2010)

She does far more than that - the only thing I object to is when they very occasionally try to have her wrestle or at least do a move or two.

James Mitchell was ok, a great talker, but in terms of business Id wager Vickie has been worth far more for WWE, and not just because TNA are shit at business in general.

I would agree in as much as she probably isnt as good for business as she was at the height of her angle with Edge, and in general I think they have long wasted Zigglers wrestling abilities by saddling him with a lame name, character & storylines. Mind you he has still fared better than the rest of the Spirit Squad.


----------



## bromley (Oct 27, 2010)

Dolph was in the spirit squad? I never knew that! I always thought he was destined for the lower mid-card with that introducing himself gimmick. I get the feeling that unless you're thrown straight in to the main event E.G. Shamus and Barrett it's almost impossible to work your way in to it, excluding the run as TNA champion.

As for Vicky, controversially she probably gets more of a reaction than Eddie did but this is more to do with air time. Vicky gets heat in the same way as The Miz, by being annoying, the easy route. I doubt either of them could ever manage a face turn.


----------



## elbows (Oct 27, 2010)

I wouldnt rule out a face turn from The Miz at some point. Barrett is also doing a pretty good job of being a heel in recent weeks - some great cackling and sneering and bullying.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm not convinced dolph will ever be a main eventer but he will be solid upper middle card.

Umm i think you should rewatch some old eddie guerro stuff. The whole we lie, we cheat we steal, gimmick Got hhhhuge reactions and they ran with that for a fair bit. Eddie was ridiculously over for a very long time. The chyna stuff, the i'm your papi stuff with rey mysterio, the fact that jerry lawler loved saying latino heat didn't hurt either!

As for the n00bs having to go staright into the main event, hmmm time will tell i guess, certainly wasn't the case with jeff hardy, edge, jericho, randy orton etc etc but the business has changed it seems, so who knows.

I can also see miz going face at some point, i mean how many people work heel for thier entire carears???


dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 28, 2010)

I imagine there's quite a few wrestlers who worked heel their entire career, especially back in the territory days. I think Eddie was only over big time when during the latter part of his career when he was on Smackdown, he did have an awful lot of injuries in his career, although thinking back on it, overall I'm probably wrong with the comparisons to Vicky!

There used to be a process wrestlers would go through with the king of the ring and IC title, it was unheard of a wrestler (unless very big) heading straight in to the main event.

I don't rate Miz as anything other than a decent upper mid-card heel, I don't think he could turn face, time will tell though.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 28, 2010)

I honestly cant think of a wrestler who worked heel for their entire career, which means there can't be many. The million $ man is the only on that i'm unsure of, i suspect he might have.

i really don't why wwe stopped running king of the ring( and surviour series!!!). Was a  great ppv.

dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 28, 2010)

Im pretty sure Survivor Series has been reprieved, they were going to get rid of it this year but changed their minds and its on in November.

Probably were some wrestlers who only worked as heels decades ago, not so likely now. In recent times the only examples are probably people who didnt have very long careers.

Flair hates being a babyface which is why he is still technically a heel, but its quite hard for him to be a proper heel these days, people love him too much.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 1, 2010)

after i posted my last thing i went onto a wrestling news site and low and behold king of the ring is back as well! A raw special rather then a ppv, obviously with the 26 million ppv's they are running at the moment they couldn't find room.

Impact was a bit shit this week. Looks like matt morgan is going to be going faceish again and pushed hard which isn't a bad thing.

dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 1, 2010)

One of the things I've noticed on re-watching '99 WCW was the amount of nonsensical turns they had, I think TNA are getting close to replicating it.

I am for a Morgan push though.

If the brand split was done properly King of the Ring would be a great mixed brand PPV.


----------



## bromley (Nov 2, 2010)

Anyone see the weird McMahon thing on Raw?


----------



## elbows (Nov 3, 2010)

bromley said:


> Anyone see the weird McMahon thing on Raw?


 
Ive heard about it, intend to watch it at some point this week. Given that his wife really has blown close to $50 million on a failed campaign to become a senator, and they were pretty sure she was going to lose on Monday night before the elections, its not all that shocking that they would start to mock themselves a bit. They did some self-mocking skits from time to time after their XFL football league died after a year as well.


----------



## elbows (Nov 4, 2010)

There is a version of this weeks NXT floating around on the net that has the audio feed from producer Kevin Dunn instead of what we are supposed to be hearing. I havent watched it all yet but it may be quite interesting in a geeky sort of way.


----------



## bromley (Nov 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> There is a version of this weeks NXT floating around on the net that has the audio feed from producer Kevin Dunn instead of what we are supposed to be hearing. I havent watched it all yet but it may be quite interesting in a geeky sort of way.


Have you got a link? I'm pretty sure they don't say what they're meant to on that show!


----------



## elbows (Nov 4, 2010)

I doubt he feeds them stuff line by line. Ive not got a direct link but I think if you go to twitter and search for 'NXT feed' you will quickly find a message with a link.


----------



## bromley (Nov 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> I doubt he feeds them stuff line by line. Ive not got a direct link but I think if you go to twitter and search for 'NXT feed' you will quickly find a message with a link.


On the excellent wrestling with shadows documentary they showed JR saying some crap lines like "he's really busted open now" to Lawler & Cole. No idea why.


----------



## elbows (Nov 4, 2010)

Well they are fed certain lines, but its usually by Vince - in fact a primary reason why Mick Foley left WWE was because he couldnt handle Vince shouting at him via an audio feed whilst trying to commentate. Im not sure how much prompting they get from others on things like NXT though, time to find out, although I think on this version we can only hear Kevin Dunn and not the commentators at all which makes it quite a strange viewing experience.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 4, 2010)

nah its vinces brother that does it most of the time. Constantly feeding the commentators stats and shiz.

Vince only comes on to scream at the announcers.

dave


----------



## elbows (Nov 4, 2010)

If Vince has a brother, which I think he does although its not mentioned often, he isnt involved in the wrestling business.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 4, 2010)

could be wrong then, but its definatly not vince who does most of the announcing "coaching" it might have been bruce pritchard untill he left or something, but vince definatly only goes onto scream at the announcers.


dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 5, 2010)

If anyone's feeding lines it's the supposed greatest announcer of all time JR. (Check out Jarrett's shoot on him after winning the world title! ) If it was Vince all we would hear is _"one, two and, no!"_


----------



## elbows (Nov 5, 2010)

Im not sure that Jim Ross is at many of the shows these days.

Anyways I watched NXT with the directors audio feed, it was only interesting in an extremely geeky way as expected, eg when he is telling someone at WWE HQ what botched spot to edit out of a match. He tells the commentators when they are going to be on camera, gives them pointers on what sort of thing to talk about only once or twice, and feeds them a line only once that I can tell.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 8, 2010)

Just watched turning point. was okay. Jarret vs joe was suprisingly good but there were a lot of ridiculous finishes. Oh and suprise suprise the best match of the night was motor city machine guns, yet another great match from them.

Seeing as the dudleys have "retired" i wish to ask who is the greatest tag team of all time? 

I'm undecided, the kid in me wants to say legion of doom, but i was proper stupid when i was 8. Whch leaves it pretty much between the mid 90's golden age teams of dudleys and edge and christian, and the modern day greatness of motor city machine guns.

I dunno between em though. I loved edge and christian, both great in ring, christian sells better then anyone ever and the whole pose thing cracked me up, loved em. 

Alex shelley is probabley my current favourite wrestler, always innovative and always throwing in a couple of moves that I haven't seen for years, he's great, sabin is great, they are ridiculously fluid and double team better then anyone ever, but might be a bit too early for them to be right up there.

And the dudleys are the dudleys, just always brillient really. 

Fuck it its clearly the dudley boys isn't it.


dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 9, 2010)

I rate The Steiner Brothers as the best, the Dudleys are up there with them.

On the subject of greatness...


----------



## hektik (Nov 9, 2010)

after perusing this thread, I went and watched the motor city machine guns v beer money matches: all I can say is AMAZING. that is exactly the tpye of wrestling i used to love watching as a youngster. It then encouraged me to watch a WWE thing on sky. which was majorly disappointing. I haven't really watched any wrestling for a good 10 or so years - they used to have it on at the SU on a friday night (stone cold/d generation X era). if you could point me towards more matches like the machine guns/beer money ones, that would be great, cheers!


----------



## bromley (Nov 9, 2010)

hektik said:


> after perusing this thread, I went and watched the motor city machine guns v beer money matches: all I can say is AMAZING. that is exactly the tpye of wrestling i used to love watching as a youngster. It then encouraged me to watch a WWE thing on sky. which was majorly disappointing. I haven't really watched any wrestling for a good 10 or so years - they used to have it on at the SU on a friday night (stone cold/d generation X era). if you could point me towards more matches like the machine guns/beer money ones, that would be great, cheers!


 Check out a wrestler called Bryan Danielson in a company called ROH.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 9, 2010)

well get your hands on any motor city machine guns matches from the last 6 motnhs or so. They have been gold for a while now. Also worth checking out the young bucks in roh/dragongate who are now called generation me in tna.

Aj styles, christopher daniels, lo-ki are all amazing techincal high flyers and generally any tna x-divison thing from about 3 years ago +(its all dropped off for the moment.  ) might be well worth a look. Jerry lynn/lo-ki/ajstyles matches in tna from about 7/8 years ago are well worth watching as are any of the ultimate-x matches.

As mentioned bryan danielson also, homocide, cm punk and samoa joe are very worth while things to watch especially in ROH.

If you(or anyone else for that matter) wants stuff i would need a portable hd/memory stick sent to me, but i have something like 500gb of stuff sitting on my computer, gimmie a brief run down on the sort of thing you are after and i will have something!!!!!

dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 13, 2010)

Now TNA have a stupid world title belt as well.

*Questions why he still watches wrestling.*


----------



## kained&able (Nov 15, 2010)

i'm hoping it will be the eqivilent of steve austins custom smoking skulls belt rather then an actual new title belt.


dave


----------



## hektik (Nov 15, 2010)

I might take you up on that... i like acrobatic, fast paced stuff really...or stuff which you just watch and go "wow"...found on youtube a kurt angle match where he moonsaulted from the top of a cage. that was pretty amazing. 

this on the guardian today: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2010/nov/15/wrestling-karl-krammer

a bit different from the US.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 15, 2010)

right you want lots of tna x-division stuff then. Tends to be what i go for as well.


dave


----------



## armysurplus (Nov 16, 2010)

I used to watch wrestling when i was a  kid. For me it's not a good sport. Super scripted. Today, i'm into martial art called "Arnis".


----------



## bromley (Nov 17, 2010)

_Super _scripted?

It's not a sport.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 25, 2010)

just been watching wrestlemania x7. Was rather decent. Jericho vs regel and angle vs beoit being the two standouts, but a pretty solid card through out. The hardcore title match was proper lol. Raven getting put through a window and all sorts of stunt stuff. Oh and then there was the small matter of TLC!!!!

Yes!


dave


----------



## kained&able (Nov 25, 2010)

ddp.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 28, 2010)

As swanton bombs go, this one was especially insane:



I suspect this kind of thing is not approved by the health insurance industry.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 28, 2010)

i presume it was onto a crash mat by the wat they have done the cameras, but still the man has balls and knew what he needed to do to get himself over, good work.


dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 28, 2010)

Yeah crash mats, they did a lot of similar spots during the attitude era, most have been forgotten due to the amount of ridiculous spots during that time. Remember the Steve Blackman titantron jump? Personally I think it's stupid to risk paralysing yourself, Hayabusa paralysed himself trying a simple springboard moonsault and he was as just as talented as Jeff when it came to high risk. Jeff IMO has proved in TNA recently that he can get over without taking high risk, although it would've taken a lot longer. Great spot though! 

Doug Williams called AJ Styles a tosser on Impact this week.

Raw was amazing this week!


----------



## kained&able (Nov 28, 2010)

oh really will download it then.

Yeah nigel mcguiness calls everyone wankers as well. Good work!

Jeff was already over by the time he got to tna beacuse he did stuff like that in wwe! His first run in tna he was still having to do jumps off of balconeys through tables and all that.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Dec 2, 2010)

MVP has been granted his release from wwe.

TNA  beckons very very quickly one would assume.

dave


----------



## Bakunin (Dec 3, 2010)

kained&able said:


> i presume it was onto a crash mat by the wat they have done the cameras, but still the man has balls and knew what he needed to do to get himself over, good work.
> 
> 
> dave


 
Crash mats were undoubtedly used, I have to agree. Although I still think that this underrated manouvre would grace the highlight reel of any major promotion. Can't see anyone being willing to take a bump of this kind, though:



As finishing moves go, extremely effective methinks.


----------



## kained&able (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm sure spike dudley or lo-ki will have done it accidently in the past!

Started watching survivor series the other day. How dead was the crowd for dolf vs lo-ki? Decent enough match but danm neither of those two are over. Reminded me of watching eddiie g vs jericho back in the wcw days.

Miami is not a wrestling town.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Dec 6, 2010)

i dont think i have seen a worse main event then randy ortan vs wade barrett. I was so so bored even with the added "bonus" of john cena refereing.


Tyler reks?? He any good. Only seen him in glimpses but I like his look and he seems fairly decent.


dave


----------



## bromley (Dec 7, 2010)

You lucky git, that means you avoided a lot of Hogan main events in WCW.

Hogan V Piper. 
Hogan V Warrior. 
Hogan & Bischoff V DDP & Jay Leno. 
Hogan & Dennis Rodman V DDP & Karl Malone. 

And Sting V Hogan after amazing build up for over a year. x4


----------



## kained&able (Dec 7, 2010)

oh my god! watch the aj styles vs doug williams match from sundays tna ppv. watch it now!

I honestly cant think of a better singles bout this year. Just plain wow.

I never watched any wcw ppv's and tended to flick over to RAW when it started after the first hour of nitro. Unless raw was being paticularly shit in which case i'd flick. Yes i missed a hell of a lot of wcw main events! Loved the wcw mid carders though!


dave


----------



## bromley (Dec 29, 2010)

I thought Santino was funny, but Eric Young makes him look like Jo Brand, what a talent! 

With Cena out of the title picture WWE is starting to be interesting again, what a surprise!


----------



## kained&able (Dec 29, 2010)

eric young cracks me up!

Decent wrestler when he gets to use it as well.

I hard something about cena being injured! is it long term, as in wrestlemania threatening? Whos moved up the card?

dave


----------



## bromley (Jan 1, 2011)

Derrick Bateman of NXT is also very funny. In his first promo he made me laugh, which is something Cena has been able to do in 8 years!


----------



## elbows (Jan 2, 2011)

Cenas injury is apparently not too bad, just a bruised hip.

Low Ki (Kaval) has left WWE. Kong has signed with WWE, which could be great if they use her right.

I have not watched TNA for ages, because I finally got completely sick of the stuff they dont do properly, eg storylines. Ive not watched much WWE either, there isnt too much to hold my interest. At least the main event mix is gradually starting to change a bit, everything was so stale. I just wish they would go the whole hog with the Michael Cole heel stuff, get him away from the Raw announcing duties and get JR back. Because without JR Ive really been struggling to feel like any of it is worth my time watching, it just doesnt seem important. Yes there are still good matches here and there, but I always needed wacky characters with charisma & some vaguely compelling  storylines in order to bother paying any attention to wrestling. And JRs level of enthusiam added just enough to a match that I could pretend to get just a hint of the feeling i used to get when watching pay-per-views when I was young, a sense of occasion and having announcers who draw attention to the match psychology properly. Stuff doesnt have to be ultra-believable, but they need to honour stipulations at least a tiny bit more than they did in 2010 - Cena being 'fired' but then not even being off television for 1 week was a stupid move. I guess I will give WWE another try soon, to see how The Miz as champ and CM Punk as new leader of Nexus are doing, but these days I will mostly be found watching old classics.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 3, 2011)

leader of nexus?? really?? That could be interesting.

I demand loki/senshi/kaval comes back to TNA fairly soon, but wouldnt complain at all if he gets a quick run in ROH first.

Awesome kong in wwe will be intresting. I'm guessing lay-cool bodyguard or something then squash after squash after squash untill eitherr natalya or beth manage to beat her and she becomes the female equivelent of the great kahli untill her release and next run in TNA. I reckon she will flick between the two companies quite a bit. Massive monster heels never last long(unless named big show).

I saw that ROH have signed hass and benjamin. That should be a good thing, great tag team. 

dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 3, 2011)

I dont know as Kong will have another TNA run, she did not leave that company on the best of terms. I would also not be shocked if TNA dies this year, considering how all their plans in 2010 just made things worse and Reaction has been cancelled.

Yes apparently CM Punk is the leader of Nexus now, didnt see it myself but it happened just the other week.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 3, 2011)

Rumpur has it spike are just going to give tna impact another hour in a few weeks time. We shall see.

Can't see tna going bust, ratings are decent enough for the network, the only big concern is how low house show attendences are in america. Obviously no where near wwe beating as hogan was claiming they would, though.


dave


----------



## bromley (Jan 5, 2011)

IMO Hogan was only ever a draw in the 1980s. In the 90s he relied too much on comebacks and it was only the NWO storyline which gave him a second release of life, and even that was more due to Nash and Hall than him, no matter how shocking his heel turn was (which he was started to claim as his own idea)

I've started watching (mainly fast forwarding!) Nitro '99 again (you have to give yourself breaks! ). The first show in October, which had the infamous Owen Hart memorial match and began with Tony Schiavone saying they would announce the match as fans, before Bobby "I only ever put myslef, Flair and Goldberg over" Heehan told Tony that he wouldn't.  Was main evented with Flair & Hogan V DDP & Sting. Hogan got a clean pin, probably the first main event on Nitro to have one in years! The fans reacted in the usual way to the end of nitro and threw rubbish in the ring, but as Hogan left the rubbish kept going at his direction, despite him being a face. The guy isn't as much of a draw as people think he is, he is however the  best politician to ever wrestle, perhaps he should run for president again!

In other news Tough Enough is coming back, probably due to NXT being a complete failure. How many contests do they need?


----------



## kained&able (Jan 5, 2011)

Does that mean tyler black is going to have to tough enough to get a spot on the roster??

If so lol, ah i don't care anyway vince will never let him do a pheionix splash or anything cool.


dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 5, 2011)

Im not even sure that Hogan was the best politician, but he had the most leverage to work with for many years because of just how big a draw he was during his peak, an effect that was magnified both by the timing of him being on top during the WWFs monumental rise as a company so they built so much around him, and the timing also coinciding with a high peak of mainstream interest & crossover of wrestling into wider pop culture. He was the right man in the right place at the right time, and he sure made the most of it. Unfortunately this went on long long after it would have been beneficial for both himself and the business for him to exit the limelight and pass the torch. But no, him and a number of others were allowed to mess up the already-disfunctional entity that was WCW. In the 2000's Hogan was of use as a special attraction in the WWE if he was brought in for short runs. He could generate some interest & cash, largely based on nostalgia, but the positive effect on business was shortlived. He still has insecurities which demand a level of main-event ego stroking & title holding that were inappropriate given his physical state & real popularity levels at the time, but perhaps he really knew the reality of his star power having faded to the point that he should only appear for short periods, as he did tend to find reason to leave WWE every time the novelty started to wear thin.

I was not positive about what he would do in TNA from the start, this is probably reflected much earlier in this thread. Bischoff is capable of a few fresh ideas for TV that can work, but mostly he gives the impression of being stuck in a late 90s mindset along with Hogan and to an extent Russo (who has many other faults that I wont rant about now). If more people with power in TNA had a clue about the business, they would never have been stupid enough to expect Hogan and Bischoff to bring the success to TNA that they hoped for this time last year, they are not worth the money. Their wage bill has gone up, moral of other talent is largely down, the general TNA stupidity has continued largely unabated, and perhaps most importantly I expect that the sense of hope and optimism that TNA could grow substantially is now gone. For many years they always had something to aim for, be it a proper TV deal which they eventually got, then aim for higher rating, other forms of expansion. Well they got a lot of what they wanted and it didnt make no difference, in fact in some ways they are in much worse shape than the old X-division 6-sided ring TNA of old. They never did really amazing pay-per-view buy rate but these days its right down the toilet, so few buys that I believe many of their pay-per-views run at a loss now. They get money from Spike TV, and their house show business often performs quite well, as do merchandise sales. But its hard to claim that TNA has ever been a really viable business and without the big money backers being prepared to lose millions they would have been dead a long time ago.

I liked the original Tough Enough back in the day but I felt a fair bit younger then and 'reality tv' was still a fairly fresh concept. NXT certainly was a joke although they have at least managed to get a couple of people onto the main roster nicely through it, although if I were an upcoming star I think Id rather be introduced to the audience via a vehicle with less humiliation and risk of doom than NXT offers. Apparently for the new tough enough the format will be somewhat similar to the old one, and they are looking for people with some wrestling background so that the participants wont be too green to do stuff in the ring  if they want them on the main roster soon after the season ends. Im not convined I shall bother watching it myself unless I get reports of some exceptionally interesting characters ending up in the mix.


----------



## elbows (Jan 5, 2011)

And as for Hogans future, 2010 was the year his body really punished him for trying to wrestle again, he had numerous back operations and they failed so I think he recently had to go for some serious back fusion, a move which quite likely signals the end of his in-ring career once and for all.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 7, 2011)

Oh yeah he wont wrestle ever again. Will be just the gm type role from now on.

Hogan's benefit to tna is bringing in people like RVD and jeff hardy he is a big draw for wrestlers still. Eric and his partner handle all the business stuff. I can see it working fairly well, just so long as TNA start being more  realistic. Unless they get a massive network funding them they will not take on wwe anytime soon. They can however, keep slowly building and being a genuine choice for talent and fans.

They need to get the x-divison back up and running properly though, that is what thier fan base came for and what made them different to wwe in the first place.

dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 8, 2011)

And what was the point of TNA bringing in RVD and Hardy when it has not improved their business? OK Hardy brings some merchandise sales with him, and when he was a face he was helping house-show numbers, but really everything that has happened in the Hogan era has added to their wage bill without bringing an equivalent rise in revenue.

I think its also debatable that Hogan is a draw for other wrestlers, there are many out there who are not exactly fans of what Hogan & Co do behind the scenes. And most of the big names in TNA are there because they fell out with WWE or got in trouble, in Hardys case the drugs charges, which he is apparently going to plead guilty to.

TNA are not seriously trying to compete on WWEs level anymore, its a struggle just to survive at this point.


----------



## bromley (Jan 15, 2011)

Hogan realises that he's not the draw that he once was, which is why he only makes the odd appearance in WWE, perhaps Cena's reaction has been noted by him. He also convinces them to have him win, otherwise he'll just be another wrestler and won't have the same impact (or pay packet), although true, as it is to every wrestler it's make no long term sense to anyone other them himself! He must've been convinced by Bischoff that TNA would be on the rise, which is why he associated himself with the company and had the big press conference which no other wrestler would've had. You shouldn't underestimate the man, his career should've been over in the early 90s yet he's still here and no doubt being paid as much as the top stars. 

I thought TNA should have built itself slowly with it's own stars, which it has done at times, but having a main event of Jeff Hardy V Matt Morgan is going to give the impression to the casual fans of a WWE 'B' Show. Kurt Angle was unable to get the response they wanted, perhaps due to the lack of any decent attention grabbing storylines which have been missing from wrestling since the attitude era.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 15, 2011)

id argue that matt morgan is a tna built star personally. I don't think it was people like him hardy, keendy and pope etc that were the problem it was the l8ikes of booker t and kevin nash and the others who couldn't really go anymore that were ther issue. Don't think there are any of those left on the active roster now though.

Thought the last tna ppv was pretty danm decent, good to see matt hardy in TNA and was unexpected as i didnt think his no compete clasue had ran out yet. Really wasn't expecting the ending on the main event either. Everything else was fairly solid,with the exception of the matt hardy vs rvd match which just lacked something, probbaley just a bit of ring rust on hardys part he looked a lot better on impact.

One thing i'm really liking about tna at the moment is the backstage non hosted interviews they just feel a lot more real then ever before, its a good thing.

Apparently the x-divison will be getting a major ouverhaul in time for summer, its needed.

dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 15, 2011)

The 'fly on the wall' backstage segments are one good thing TNA have done that they have actually stuck to. It might be a Bischoff idea so I will give him some credit. In the past they have had moments of greatness and then totally failed to run with the ball, eg when they did a Samoa Joe Kurt Angle 'fake MMA' match the buildup was special and the fans ate it up but the next day they just moved on with the usual crap.

I dont underestimate Hogans ability to make money for himself, I just dont think he is all that much use to a company like TNA, as the last year has demonstrated. I expect they plan to make him central to the storylines again if he can get his back problems fixed enough to the point where he can actually turn up at the tv tapings (but I dont expect him to wrestle again).

Ive given TNA another chance, they are getting a few things right but I am hating the mood that seems to have descended in recent months, you can tell that their dreams got crushed in 2010 and lots of the talent dont look like they are trying all that hard at the moment. Either that or they are having drug problems. I really dont like the look of Matt Hardy in TNA, I fear the man is a shadow of his former self at the moment, and he has made an arse of himself in multiple online videos. He looked so bad on the last PPV, it was not a good match, too slow & sloppy, Im sure I heard one fan shout 'come on Raven' at him which is not a good sign.

Im not happy that they are planting seeds for a motor city machine-guns split.

I dont mind Mr Andersons banter, which is partly why I am giving TNA another chance, plus I want to see what stupidity arrises from bringing back Karen Jarrett (formerly Karen Angle).  

TNA UK TV situation remains confused, Sky havent said which channel Impact will be airing on yet so its not on our tvs right now, and they have no UK pay-per-view either, have to watch it online.

I usually give WWE a chance between Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania as they try hardest around this time, and they have taken serious steps to elevate new stars in recent months (had no choice). But their product still bores me and I long for a commentator who can make me at least slightly excited for some of the matches.

Ring of Honour have lost their US tv contract, think their tv show comes to an end by April. I willprobably try to support them by buying at least one of their internet pay-per-views, if I can stay awake long enough.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 16, 2011)

yeah.. machoine guns split isnt a good thing, can't see them doing a feud with it while the dudleys are feuding though that would be silly.

Sabin and shelly are so danm good(i think) did you notice that tier timing was slightly off through out the entire match on impact? I'm convnced that it was dilberate on thier part. If so thats amazing if not the fact that they had thier first off day in about two years played well into the story.

I mentioned that TNA are getting ready to do a big sort out of the x-divsion so im guessing sabin and shelly will be needed for that, would leave the tag divisoion very very week all of a sudden though.

Thats a shame for ROH but not that suprsing considering the ammount of talent they have lost to wwe/tna in recent years must be really hard for them. Not that many people there that im bothered by anymore.

dave


----------



## bromley (Jan 17, 2011)

I haven't seen TNA for a few weeks now due to the TV situation. They seem to be breaking down Fourtune (I imagine it's spelt like that) before it's had a chance to establish itself. When Nexus first arrived on the scene I hated how a bunch of green rookies where getting such a push but they kept them strong and only got rid of one member (Darren Young for those that forgot! ). I've got a feeling this is Bischoff's doing as he had the NWO established and too strong for too long. Breaking up the motor city machine guns is just dumb. One of TNA's aces is their tag division, they need to get more teams and keep the division strong, perhaps some rookie/jobber teams just to get teams over, same situation with the X-division.

There's a new stable led by Wade Barrett on smackdown which could be interesting.


----------



## elbows (Jan 17, 2011)

Fourtune has sort of merged into the larger 'Immortal' group.

Having realised long ago that the right group to oppose this faction was not the ECW hasbeens, it seems like they are doing a new 'They' angle where a new group will emerge in early February to feud with Immortal. So far the only face for this new group is Amazing Reds brother, 'Crimson'.

As for Machine Guns timing being off, I hardly noticed because almost everybodys timing seems to be off at the moment, and signs of low morale ooze through my television on every show. But I am likely overstating this somewhat.

ROH losing TV was probably more to do with the state of television & wrestling these days, and the direction the network they had a deal with wants to go, as opposed to problems with ROH's product.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 17, 2011)

Nah motor city were on it for the ppv but were a step behind each other on impact. Like i say i presume intentional but we will see on thursday.

They part 2 is going to be a group of dixie carters people. I'm guessing rvd, crimson, kenedy(b4 heel turn), magus, wolfe, hernandez, red and who knows who else. 

dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 17, 2011)

Ive heard some rumbling about a partial 'main event mafia' rerun as part of the new 'They' so we may well get the likes of Scott Steiner in the mix, not sure about Sting and Kevin Nash, but it wouldnt surprise me, along with Foley and maybe Angle too.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 17, 2011)

oh yeah sting is due back soon surely. can't imagine steiner being involved though and yeah foley reprises his minority stake holder role and becomes what ric flair is to fortune.

dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 17, 2011)

They have already done the tv tapings where Steiner returns.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 17, 2011)

oh god. Bodgezilla!!!!


----------



## bromley (Jan 17, 2011)

Horrible booking.


----------



## elbows (Jan 18, 2011)

Well Im not 100% sure what role they will give Steiner, all I know for sure is that he returns.

Meanwhile it sounds like Alex Shelley has suffered a broken collarbone, ouch. Not the best start for their X-division rebuilding plans.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 18, 2011)

steiner will be the enforcer surely. I presume they are going to mirror immortal.

My current favourite wrestler isnt allowed to be injured!

dave


----------



## kained&able (Jan 23, 2011)

i cant believe where tna are going with the angle/jarret stoyline i mean considering the parties involved i presume that they are cool with it, but jesus, all a bit real.

It could all end in tears in fact i'm fairly sure angles tears were real. Silly.


dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 24, 2011)

Wrestling has never been able to resist turning reality into a storyline, and it gets heat because people know its based on something real. Worse is when it happens the other way round, with life imitating art, which has happened quite a few times with relationships in wrestling. At least TNA arent mean-spirited shits like WWE can be, with WWEs repeated references to fat women (who in reality are a normal enough weight, just not stick-insects) and WWE are also mean to people who leave - Tiffany is presently pissed off with them because they fired her (after a domestic incident with her husband Drew McIntyre which lead to her arrest) and they are using a storyline which she had originally come up with for her character to perform with Drew, but they have cast Kelly Kelly in the role.  

Angle has other things to worry about right now, he had to rush home from the European tour because his pregnant fiance collapsed with very high blood pressure, they had to induce labour. Last I heard the baby is doing ok, about 3 weeks premature, and the fiance is expected to recover, but ugh thats scary shit!


----------



## bromley (Jan 24, 2011)

All the best to the Angles.


Remember the Benoit V Kevin Sullivan feud with woman (Nancy Sullivan then Nancy Beniot)?


----------



## kained&able (Jan 24, 2011)

matt hardy, lita and edge. Is the one i was thinking about. D

dont remember the benoit one at all.

One of yuou was watching lots of old wcw ppv's weren't you?? What do you reccomend? Still watching all the old wrestlemanias onto 20!(beoit wins the world title) very good indeed i'm poper into my era of wrestling now. 


dave


----------



## bromley (Jan 25, 2011)

I've watched a lot of wcw ppvs. I have about 5 on original VHS and 4 years worth on my PC.

Bash of the Beach '96 is a must as the Sullivan V Benoit thing really goes over the edge after the match. The Giant (what happened to him?!) had to break kayfabe post match and ask Benoit (a face) what he was doing! He was stamp on Sullivan's head a few times and they going at it prety stiff during the match. Also there's a nice swerve~! In the main event! 

Spring Stampede '99 was the last great PPV they did, I recommend that as well. Hog wild '96 has a great Benoit V Malenko fight and Halloween Havoc '96 has a great Eddie V Rey Jr Mask V Title match. 

What kind of stuff do you like?


----------



## kained&able (Jan 25, 2011)

giant is big show isn't he?

Umm i tend to be all about the cruiser weights and the technical wrestlers. Anything with eddie geurro, benoit, rey mysterio, la parka, juvetued guerro blah blah blah is all good. As is anything involving sting and jericho.

did hogan turn heel at bash at the beach?

dave


----------



## bromley (Jan 25, 2011)

kained&able said:


> giant is big show isn't he?
> 
> Umm i tend to be all about the cruiser weights and the technical wrestlers. Anything with eddie geurro, benoit, rey mysterio, la parka, juvetued guerro blah blah blah is all good. As is anything involving sting and jericho.
> 
> ...


The giant is now the Big Show and Hogan did turned heel, the last time he did anything interesting!

Most ppvs have had a couple of decent Cruiserweight matches. Jericho didn't really get a push until '98 when he defeated Malenko for the strap and the two of them had an excellent fued, which included THE BEST PROMO EVER, the man of 1004 holds! Arrrmm bar! I wasn't too keen on the Bore us segment though. Jericho also faced Juvented (What do you think you impress the Rock because you beat someone called Juvented?) at Superbrawl '98 in a mask V title match, which you need to watch now!


----------



## kained&able (Jan 25, 2011)

will do!

tna have a uk tv deal again and are on challenge tv of all places. impact/ppv/explosion(heat)

I loved the rock/jerico promos. They were amazing. The two of them cutting into stephanie mccmahon after her tit job was genius. In fact those two have to be the best of all time in that respect.

dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh dear, there have now been Flair problems for TNA on their European tour.

Apparently Flair was going to pick up the after-show bar bill for everyone after the Dublin event, but his credit card got declined. So he asked the company for a cash advance and they refused so he had a fit and refused to get on the bus to the airport. So he missed the next show in Germany, but they are apparently getting him back for the rest of the tour. His longer-term future in TNA is unknown at this point.

Its no secret that Flair has pissed away his money over the course of his career due to 'living the gimmick'. And sadly nothing has changed. Im not sure that the life story of Flair will end very happily.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 26, 2011)

if he is living his gimmick i suspect he will be very happy to be honest, it will just be a pathetic story.

dave


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2011)

Sounds like TNA were planning to get Booker T and Nash as part of the imminent new 'they' angle but WWE have taken them instead (at least for the Rumble), leaving TNA scrambling to find replacements for the angle. In some ways WWE have probably done TNA a favour because now TNA wont have to deal with these rather old wrestlers who have not really helped the company in the past, though I doubt TNA see it that way right now.  

I might stay up and watch the Rumble tonight, WWE have not really sold me on it and Ive not even watched their programming at all lately but its a nostalgia thing for me.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 30, 2011)

yeahhh the rumble matters a lot lss these days to be honest. Back in the day it used to be where you find out the wrestlemania main event but beacuse of the brand split and the fact that they almost always change a title holdr at the next ppv it has lot something.

I love rumble matches though!!

Oh and i am happy at no nash and booker t. Nash especially really can't go anymore and he was never great to begin with. Sting, steiner and a few of the tna guys will do me just fine.


dave


----------



## kained&able (Jan 31, 2011)

the winner, really?? really?? I refuse to belive he is headlining wrestlemania.

That save from morrsion was sick!

Didn't like the 40 man rumble, it was a bit long really.

Oh and its fair to say the big man is still over!!!

dave


----------



## elbows (Feb 1, 2011)

Why do you refuse to believe it, he has been getting a huge push since he first appeared on TV. And as the reaction to Cena getting eliminated shows, many people are sick to death of the same few faces being in the main-event picture. 

I thought the 40-man worked fine, it was not much longer than the normal 30 man rumble as people came in at shorter intervals which kept the pace up nicely.

The reaction that Nash got caused him to tweet that it was the best day of his wrestling career or something. The original plan was for him to maybe work some role backstage but not to be active on TV, but WWE will probably give him some sort of short run on-air now to capitalise on his apparent popularity.


----------



## kained&able (Feb 1, 2011)

Did he have issues with big show? The look they gave each other on the ramp was interesting. Eithe rit was legit or they will be feuding endinging in a mania match.

Not seen much of him but i can't see him headlining a wrestlermania at all. Very inexperienced to be given that responsibility, reckon that one will be a triple threat with rey and someone else. Got no problem with fairly new people getting a shot but am surprised its him, nothing i have seen of him thus far suggests he is main event material yet.

Mason ryan looks a lot smaller in wwe land then he did in gladiators doesn't he! There are a lot of brits around the biz all of a sudden. Regal, williams, magnus, barrett, rob terry, macintyre, finley(although not much),nigel mcguiness, winter/nakita, layla. 

Good times.

As for the 40 man rumble i dunno it just didn't work yeah it wasn't much longer really 10-15 mins at most but by the end i was starting to get bored first time in memory that thats happend for a rumble. I thought the nexus booking was very good though. Shame danielson/punk/regal only got a short time to work together. I want to see 60mins of that!!!

dave


----------



## elbows (Feb 1, 2011)

Did Regal accidentally knock Punk out early on? He went to pick him up and he was all floppy so he left him alone.

The Rumble did feel a bit flat near the end but for me that was due to the lack of star power at the top these days, plus some people probably expected Hunter to return and were not pleased when the last participant was Kane.

One site reckoned that the Big Show-Nash staredown was a last minute call from the back when they heard how much the crowd was into Nash. The referee would have been able to convey a message to him to do the thing with Big Show on the way out.

As for the number of UK people around these days, perhaps its partly due to the loss of the US territories which used to act as a farm for new US talent that the big companies could use. And perhaps the rather stiff style of the Brits fits in well with this age where MMA has been serious competition for the wrestling business. I never saw Gladiators so I cant comment on Mason Ryan, although I will say he is nowhere near ready to be on tv yet and Vince is letting his big-man fetish spoil his judgement again.


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## kained&able (Feb 1, 2011)

if he is just used in an enforcer role for nexus then i think he could work, maybe. Will start watching wwe again a bit more on the road to wretslemania so will be able to form an opinion.

Kane late and out quickly was a mistake.

I'm not sure about the whole territories thing there are still plenty of indys about the place and a lot of people have come through them. in wwe's case though i think their development territory hurts them a bit. They get taught the wwe way which just means there are a lot of people doing l the same things really.

And yeah the british style seems to be getting more fashionable these days lots of mma kinda stuff and they seem to be the only ones(with some very notable exceptions) who know thier submissions and throws. To many of the farm wrestlers seem to only be able to punch and kick for my liking, a lot of very limited wrestlers(or only allowed to do a limited move set) in wwe.

Oh and i still don't get how randy orton is a face. The man needs a new entrance. A face can't walk that slowly for fucks sake!

dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 1, 2011)

elbows said:


> One site reckoned that the Big Show-Nash staredown was a last minute call from the back when they heard how much the crowd was into Nash. The referee would have been able to convey a message to him to do the thing with Big Show on the way out.



They could bring up that old wCw footage of Nash botching a powerbomb on The Giant if they want to spice up that feud. I still wouldn't be interested in anything Nash does, in or out of the ring though.

It's been ages since I watched a WWE PPV, getting all nostalgic reading about the Rumble.


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## bromley (Feb 3, 2011)

Is there anything Elbows won't blame the lack of territories on?  

I know people who don't like wrestling any more but always watch the rumble and Wrestlemania. They're probably the only ppvs i avoid spoilers for and make an effort for as well, there's too many ppvs and shows.

I like Del Rio but think it's too soon for him to be winning the rumble, a Edge V Del Rio main event doesn't interest me in the slightest and the Lawler V Miz main event at Elimination Chamber most be one of the dullest ppv main events in WWE history, although Lawler can put on a good story and the match will be decent. 
I liked Santino's stint at the end! 

I heard a rumour of a sting v 'taker wrestlemania match which would be interesting, although not as big as it would have been 15 years ago!!

I think WWE need to have a transition WM and rebuild for the future.


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## bromley (Feb 3, 2011)

As for the stare down, Nash no showed Starcade '97 where he was meant to face The Giant and then broke his neck in the next PPV. He was also booker when he left WCW. I would be surprised if show gives one, he seems to be a very chilled person.


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## kained&able (Feb 3, 2011)

sting vs taker would be amazing. I reckon sting has still got a few great matches in him. All his tna matches were decent enough, just see how undertaker is holding up, injured yet again and very defineatly getting old.


dave


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## elbows (Feb 3, 2011)

bromley said:


> Is there anything Elbows won't blame the lack of territories on?


 
What else have I blamed the lack of territories for? There is no doubt at all that its seriously affected the breadth and depth of available talent. Indies do not offer anything like the same level of experience-gaining work, the schedule is far far lighter, in front of far fewer people, no tv and a lot of indy workers have other jobs.

Not that I think all that much can be done about it, the world changed and even if Vince hadnt tried to take over the whole country the evolution of television would likely have had much the same result in the end.

I dont go as far as some old wrestlers do by saying that wrestling is becoming a lost art, and overly scripted promos and bad booking are more responsible for my lack of love for wrestling products these days than a lack of quality talent.


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## kained&able (Feb 3, 2011)

speaking of bad booking, i just watched raw!

Faces don't punt people in the head.

A dance contest really? Especially one that i rpesume wont go anywhere its not like the usos and tonnes of fun are going to be feuding(or maybe they are and it will be shit)

I think its fair to say sting has signed up for wwe. That promo video wasn't the most subtle of subtle videos if you know who he is. Cool though.

Im guessing miz vs cena for wresltemania & punk vs randy orton.

dave


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## elbows (Feb 3, 2011)

kained&able said:


> Faces don't punt people in the head.


 
That sort of thing is a hangover from the attitude era, and Stone Cold in particular, he used to stun all sorts of people that faces should not but the crowd lapped it up, anti-hero stuff that can be gotten away with with todays audience, especially if not overdone. Orton is not as beloved as Stone Cold so WWE should be careful with this stuff.


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## kained&able (Feb 3, 2011)

yeah austin could get away with it. the punt is different from the stunner though when randy punts someonethey tend to be off tele for a while it was given to him to put people on the shelf, not vry face.

dave


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## elbows (Feb 4, 2011)

Well in this case I believe the punt victim was being sent a strong message from the office about his ballooning weight.


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## kained&able (Feb 7, 2011)

speaking of ballooning weight i notice natalya got the piggy james treatment from micheal cole and then lost her divas championship. I really hope they continue doing this as i'd love to see her in tna.

I thought husky harris looked fairly decent from what i've seen of him. Very aggressive which i like. On the positive side it shows that samoa joe would never be able to compete in wwe.

Watched smackdown, wish i hadn't to be quite honest. It was pony.

What's going on with micheal cole he has got a lot more annoying and prominent recently, are they setting up for him vs lawler for wrestlemania or something?

dave


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## elbows (Feb 7, 2011)

Not sure what they are doing with Michael Cole, he has been steadily turning heel for ages, I was hoping this would take him away from commentary and into some sort of manager role but it just keeps going. I dont imagine him having a match, but they could do something where if Lawler beats someone else then he gets a minute to beat up on Cole.

Booker T has the potential to be quite great on commentary in an old-school way, have heard him do an amusingly over the top job of this in the past, but they are starting him on commentary on Smackdown in quite a reserved way it seems. 

TNA did their pitiful best to spin the failure of Nash, Sting & Booker to rejoin TNA into a twist in the 'they' storyline but it still made my head hurt and I dont think Im going to last long at giving their product another chance at this rate.


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## kained&able (Feb 7, 2011)

yeah but how great is it to see triple threat x-division matches on the regular again. I love that shit. Daniels returning next week(okay as suicide but still) low-ki back in the fold soon as well, that will make me happy. 

I'm in complete agreement about whole they/immortal thing, its all a bit shit. Means robert roode can go face though which i reckon will be a good thing. The man is very unlucky to be so good at the whole tag team thing. Eventually he will be a truely great singles star in my opinion.


dave


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## bromley (Feb 8, 2011)

I just checked Google to find out when impacts on, interesting results! 

Petitons to remove the programming.

If I was them I wouldn't be too bothered about _losing _that talent.

I like Cole's heel turn but it doesn't work with him being a commentator and it takes away from the in ring action. I would have him managing Alex Reily and get him booked in matches for the IC title, speaking of which who's the champion? Kofi Kingston? 

A recent WWE UK special was focused on the cruiser weights and it's main event was the Rey V Eddie match I mentioned earlier, pure brilliance! Perhaps Eddie's best ever match?

I have a feeling that Orton V Punk will be the Raw Main event or perhaps The Miz will keep the title and drop it in a dull match to Cena. Overall I'm not interested in Wrestlemania this year, unless the rumoured Sting V Undertaker match takes place, which says a lot about the current product...

Vince said on Raw last night that Wrestlemania will have a special guest host.


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## bromley (Feb 8, 2011)

elbows said:


> That sort of thing is a hangover from the attitude era, and Stone Cold in particular, he used to stun all sorts of people that faces should not but the crowd lapped it up, anti-hero stuff that can be gotten away with with todays audience, especially if not overdone. Orton is not as beloved as Stone Cold so WWE should be careful with this stuff.


Lots of stupid stuff happened in the Attitude era, didn't Austin pick up HHH's car with a crane and drop it? Orton's the only decent face in WWE. It just goes to show that listening to the fans is a smart thing to do.


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## kained&able (Feb 8, 2011)

I remember someone ramming a car with a big rig(rakishi/rock/austin??) and triple h raiding randy ortons house and throwing him through a window and going at him with his sledgehammer and kane trying to embalm someone alive and all sorts of stuff! Oh and the undertaker doing that satanic wedding with stephanie at the behest of vince, that was quite uncomfortable to watch and led to the silliest faction in the history of the world the corporate ministry!

Rey mysterio is a good face although can't talk for shit and i have high hopes for kofi kingston and john morrison(especially JM) but they aren't main eventers yet. Wwe seems very middle card heavy at the moment in terms of faces with very few main eventers. When did edge turn face? I think he is much better as a heel.

Orton gets the reaction but i'm really not convinced his persona works as a face. Too much of physco and far too cold.

dave


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## bromley (Feb 9, 2011)

I think it's good to be mid-card heavy. They've pushed people too fast after the attitude era before the fans were in to them, Cena for example IMO got pushed far to hard and for too long. When they were losing the ratings they had young talent coming in fighting for the IC title who slowly moved up for the world title. Austin wasn't given the strap as soon as fans cheered for him. they built him up, turned him face, built him up for another year then gave him the belt, and this was when it was obviously that the guy could help change the ratings for them. A heel winning the title is different as it's a hell of a lot easier to get heat than cheers, and its the face who sells the most merch. I would have John Morrison winning MITB this year. I'm a big fan of MITB it can give _anyone _a creditable title win. As for Orton, the fans are buying in to the physo thing! At the last Wrestlemania he had the best reaction by a mile.

Have you watched the Rey V Eddie match yet?


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## kained&able (Feb 9, 2011)

I have it as part of the eddie g box set thingy that came out a couple of years ago, so yes! Great match. Not watched any of the ppvs you recommended though been downloading a fair bit of roh stuff.

Lots of mid carders is a good thing but wwe are really lacking main eventers(especially faces) at the moment. They really can't deal with the roster split any more in my opinion.

dave


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## elbows (Feb 9, 2011)

OK this is very, very silly indeed, but worth checking out for the move at around the 2 min 18 second mark. It has nearly 2 million views.


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## kained&able (Feb 9, 2011)

oh my days!! lol. That is ridiculous. Can't believe the crowd were into it.

like you say fair play for the headslide though. I'll stick to watching real b-boys(no not the wrestler)

Is czw still around?

dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 9, 2011)

elbows said:


> OK this is very, very silly indeed, but worth checking out for the move at around the 2 min 18 second mark. It has nearly 2 million views.




This really takes me back to when I got into the indies, the smaller companies were always pulling this kinda shit. It's nice to be reminded that CZW aint all deathmatch ultraviolence, just like ECW (RIP) also used to have a lot of funny skits with Stevie and the Meanie etc.

About five years ago I was what you might call a 'fringe creative' (in that they used some of my ideas but I never got paid anything) for a local fed, they used to get pretty decent indie names over from the US too like Super Dragon, El Generico and one night they had Samoa Joe wrestle three matches in a tourny, crazy for a little community hall with only a couple of rows of fold up seats around the ring - anyways their heel faction was the Chav Army, they used to get their mobiles out and film happy-slaps in the ring & that kinda shit. I like a bit of dicking about in wrestling, I guess the guys got to have a sense of humour when they're getting ribbed by the same cynical indie fans every week. Got to keep the smarks happy!

Anyway, wtf:



I can't believe it's come to this for Kurt. Sid and Nash, well fair enough - it'll probably be up there with their very best work. Actually Nash doesn't look an awful lot different with his Swamp Thing shit on, same old wizard's hair and plodding creaking style.


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## kained&able (Feb 10, 2011)

think james storm is in that as well.

i don't mind the colt cabana, el generico, delirious dicking about. That was just shit though.

dave


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## bromley (Feb 10, 2011)

Was the small fed called IPW:UK?


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## El Sueno (Feb 10, 2011)

bromley said:


> Was the small fed called IPW:UK?


 
Yep that's the one, doing shows out of Orpington Hall.


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## kained&able (Feb 11, 2011)

One my mates does some wrestling for a ridiculously small hastings(mainly) based promotion. I think they are called EWW they had jody fleich do a match the other week. Now they are a proper small company!

dave


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## bromley (Feb 13, 2011)

What a nasty bump!

I know Dan Edler, trained with IPW:UK and have been to a few of their shows, I still prefer FWA though!

I saw the end of Impact, so fourtune have left immortal, lame.


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## kained&able (Feb 13, 2011)

shocker didn't quiote catch him did he. He seemed okay though.

The fortune vs immortal thing actually works for me, im just not sure how angle, crimson, stiener fit into it.

dave


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## kained&able (Feb 14, 2011)

Just watched last RAW, i quite enjoyed it. Cm punk is clearly the best heel in the business at the moment and the whole nexus booking made sense

Only annoyenceds were micheal cole, your right it just detracts from the matches, he will screw king at elmimination chamber in some way and they will have a match at mania. mark my words. And the he vivky geurro/cena segment. Why was she even there? It made no sense to me at all.

Other then that not bad. Fealt a lot less replay heavy then last time i watched raw, which was one of the things that always pissed me off.

dave


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## bromley (Feb 14, 2011)

The replays annoy me greatly, I always fast forward them. The Cole screw job can be seen a miles off, perhaps Alex Reily will face Lawler at mania?

Some forgettable wrestler on NXT who looks like Barrack Obama did the nexus sign to Dolph Zigler after he got eliminated, expect him to join the racks soon. 

I'm not sure where they're going with the core on smackdown, only jackson looks impressive.


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## kained&able (Feb 14, 2011)

from the little of seen of heath slater i have really wished i had seen less of him. Justin gabriel looks like he might turn into something decent one day but anyone who can do a 450 is probabley best off in a different fed. Barrett, i can't make my mind up about at all. Got the size, the look and the mic skills but not convinced he can wrestle. Im sure he will go far.

Ahmed Jackson hhhhmmm not ever been convinced by him. Powerful powerful man but doesn't look like much unless he is running through people.  He needs to find a tag team to have any lasting success i reckon.

dave


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## Balbi (Feb 15, 2011)

IF YA SMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL....................



He's back.


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## kained&able (Feb 15, 2011)

is it!!!

well that will be downloaded tonight then.

dave


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## Lord Camomile (Feb 15, 2011)




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## kained&able (Feb 15, 2011)

oh host. BOOOOO!

Still should be some decent promos i guess. Was hoping he was finally returning in ring.

dave


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## Balbi (Feb 15, 2011)

I suspect we've got enough time between now and Wrestlemania for some ace promos and some laying of the smack down.


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## kained&able (Feb 15, 2011)

didn't realise you read this thread or liked the wrestling lost!

dave


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## Balbi (Feb 15, 2011)

I used to watch WWF (as then it was) avidly. Then I got out of it for a while. I keep an eye on it, but now the Rock's back i'll be watching


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## bromley (Feb 16, 2011)

Hopefully he'll continue to bury Cena.


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## kained&able (Feb 16, 2011)

the cena promo from last week makes more sense now that the rock is back. It was the kind of promo that jericho/rock used to do to Stephanie mccmahon/lillian garcia, back in the day.

he can't pull it off though.

dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 16, 2011)

THE ROCK IS BACK?!



"And I give you my word, I am never ever going away" - surely he's not kissed his movie career goodbye for anther run as WWE champ or to put some of the new guys over?


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## bromley (Feb 16, 2011)

kained&able said:


> the cena promo from last week makes more sense now that the rock is back. It was the kind of promo that jericho/rock used to do to Stephanie mccmahon/lillian garcia, back in the day.
> 
> he can't pull it off though.
> 
> dave


One week ago and I completely forgot about it. That sums up Cena perfectly, no one has ever been so undeserving of such a large push.


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## elbows (Feb 16, 2011)

El Sueno said:


> "And I give you my word, I am never ever going away" - surely he's not kissed his movie career goodbye for anther run as WWE champ or to put some of the new guys over?


 
People are very confused about that. He has previously said that he wont wrestle again, and its not even clear that he will be on TV every week in the lead-up to Wrestlemania. Indeed as they need the Rock to make Wrestlemania seem special this year, and giving away too much Rock on free TV diminishes the effect he will have at Wrestlemania, especially as he is simply the host rather than having a match at the event, they may well be wise not to have him on every week.

All thats really clear is that he has patched up the difficulties between himself and McMahon that kept him almost completely disconnected from WWE-land for some years. Vince isnt a big fan of his talent having success away from the world of WWE, and when the Rocks deal expired I dont think the WWE even bothered contacting him, which lead to some ill-feeling for a while. Now that is mended, his comments may only mean that he does not plan to be such a stranger to the WWE in future, but I dont think he is planning to be active in the way he was when he actually wrestled. But then again never say never in this business.

One problem with having the Rock back now is that it rather demonstrates the charisma problems with most of the WWEs current roster. During the Rocks original run there were at least other big names who had a huge presence and could cut great promos, such as Mick Foley, Steve Austin and several others. Pitting Cena against the Rock serves to highlight the weaknesses of Cena.


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## El Sueno (Feb 16, 2011)

Seems like Vince really needed something to boost the buy-rates for WM and everybody knows Rock=Ratings. He looked in pretty good shape though, and he's never had a serious injury in his career so there's no reason he couldn't wrestle again - he was always a safe worker who knew how to take care of himself and his opponent (yeah okay, I'm thinking of the Mankind chair shots so maybe that's not the best example!).

In my heart I don't think he'll hang around for long after WM. But it's obvious that a quick spike in the Neilsons won't get WWE's product back on track, certainly nowhere near the heights of the Attitude era when the business was thriving. Maybe they've got a plan... they're due one, creative's been stale since way back to the brand split imo.


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## kained&able (Feb 16, 2011)

his film carear has kind of died recently so i wouldnt be shocked if he needs wwe. Also could be the queue jericho needs to get intretsed enough to sign a contract again.

we will see.

The brand split has to end the don't have the roster for it anymore.

dave


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## samiam (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm glad The Rock is back.


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## samiam (Feb 16, 2011)

I haven't watched the WWE in awhile. Is Vince McMahon still in character on the shows?


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## El Sueno (Feb 16, 2011)

I haven't watched it regularly since the brand split, in fact I made a point of not watching it for a while after they dug up ECW's bones, for no other reason other than to have a big orange piss all over them in one last hurrah before they fired all the old ECW talent. Last I checked there were McMahons all over the fucking place as usual. Although Vince might've toned down his character after making up with Bret n' all.

I dunno, is Vinny still playing the heel or am I thinking of ten years ago?


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## kained&able (Feb 17, 2011)

vince hasn't been on wwe tele for almost a year now. He turned up a couple of weeks ago to tease the guest host for wrestlemania and thats it.

Shane has left the company entirely and is working as a marketing type person for some Japanese tech firm and stephanie is taking care of her kids so isn't in the picture at all tv wise and barely does anything on the vusiness side of things these days either.

dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 17, 2011)

Surprised to hear about Shane, seemed like he was groomed from an early age to step into his Dad's shoes. Vince isn't gonna leave his legacy to Steph & Hunter is he? Helmsley could find himself on a nice little earner.


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## kained&able (Feb 17, 2011)

yep, trips  is taking it over and shane realised it so got out while he was still young enough to have some proper prospects. Theres always rumours about him getting invollved with an mma promotion as well.

dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 17, 2011)

Trips lucked out with Steph, imagine inheriting all that history. Although I have a feeling Vince will be pulling the strings until he's six feet under (in a buried alive match).


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## bromley (Feb 18, 2011)

The crazy thing is, business is doing very well! 2010 was their second most profitable year ever and the most profitable year was 2007! With the lack of competition the TV shows aren't as important as they once were and revenue is brought in elsewhere. Hence why the show is so poor and why cena hasn't turned heel. 

I agree that without The Rock the buyrates for wrestlemania would be laughable. Del Rio V Edge doesn't get the pulses ready, likewise Lawler V Reily/Cole.

They need to ditch the brands, it could have worked if they tried to give them some sort of identity but now it's too late.

In conclusion, wresting is shit.


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## El Sueno (Feb 18, 2011)

I had no idea that business was so good, I was judging the wellbeing of the company on their current tv output and roster... which is pretty much as you concluded!

Yeah bromley, IPW:UK - Dan's a top fella. I floated him some ideas and catchphrases which ended up as tees, and my band Miss Nicaragua had a kinda handshake deal to record some music for intros and dvds in return for selling our band shirts, cds and lucha masks at their shows. We just wanted to get involved but it turned a bit sour after we were too lazy and disorganised to record said promised tracks, turned up at shows flogging stuff anyway and then I put the final nail in the coffin when I accidentally walked into a show without paying (honest!). And I would've got away with it too, if I hadn't been such a dick bragging about it on the wrestling channel forums the following morning! Fun times.

I never did get to an FWA event but I watched plenty of matches on the old Bravo and I used to see some of their guys around on the indie circuit.


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## kained&able (Feb 18, 2011)

Never went to a proper fwa event but i did do a couple of the Coventry skydome golbal incident(or whatever they were called) super show thingies. They were rather impressive. Lots of tna/roh talent and lots of fwa guys.

dave


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## El Sueno (Feb 18, 2011)

Yes! I went to one of the Coventry dome supershow, two nights running a few years back. I remember lucking out on the 2nd night, we collected our tickets and were handed the wrong ones - ended up ringside for Sabu -vs Abyss (we drove all the way to Coventry pretty much just to pay homage to Sabu), but the most memorabel part was trading comedy banter with Tracy Smothers.

Don't remember much about the first night, for some reason my mate and me decided to drop pills and we spent most of the night drinking pints, tugging at our shirts all flustered going 'phhhooooo' to ourselves.


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## elbows (Feb 19, 2011)

One reason business has still been good is that their international pay per view buy rates have made up for the dramatic fall in US buy rates in recent times. However their financial results are gradually starting to suffer. So while they are a long way from being in trouble, they dont consider themselves to be performing very well at the moment really, in conference calls Vince keeps pointing to upcoming events that will see the start of the turnaround, but he has been wrong so far.


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## kained&able (Feb 20, 2011)

plius i would imagine that wwe films lost them a pretty penny in the last few years!

Just watched raw and i smell what thr ock is cooking. Some nice tasty ratings with a nice side of crowd reaction. Tastes good.

dave


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## elbows (Feb 21, 2011)

Apparently the Rocks comments about never going away have already caused fan disappointment, people expected him to be at the pay per view last night, and then when they had Trish Stratus doing Rock catchphrases there was deathly silence.


----------



## Imserious (Feb 21, 2011)

Haha, the rock didn't come back? I have been foooooled! Just read he is going to be hosting something though. He was the best actor in this "sport"


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## kained&able (Feb 21, 2011)

what trish is back? Woo hoo, best diva ever. 

dave


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## elbows (Feb 21, 2011)

Rock is back but mostly only to host Wrestlemania, dont expect to see him on every show!

Think Trish mght be back because she is one of the trainers for te upcoming Tough Enough, not 100% sure though.


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## bromley (Feb 21, 2011)

Nice PPV, I think Del Rio will make a great champion.


----------



## bromley (Feb 22, 2011)

Raw Spoiler - highlight below to see.

All that build up and it was 'taker in a trench coat, what a serious disappointment. Strange segment with neither guy saying a word, still got more of a reaction than Cena's rap!


----------



## kained&able (Feb 22, 2011)

well thats a shame, i wanted to see sting.

dave


----------



## elbows (Feb 23, 2011)

You thought it was going to be sting?


----------



## bromley (Feb 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> You thought it was going to be sting?


Yes, I don't follow wrestling on the internet as it spoils surprises, although the crowd spoiled Rocks return! . He's left TNA, is at the end of his career and there's something he has never done before. Nash & Booker appeared at the rumble and he left at the same time. Also he wears a trench coat.

'Taker reappearing was a big let down IMO and at the moment WM doesn't have any stand out matches. Cole V Lawler?


----------



## kained&able (Feb 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> You thought it was going to be sting?


 
i was really hoping.


----------



## elbows (Feb 23, 2011)

Fair enough, its not like I have some wonderful ability to predict this stuff, I just read/listen to a very well informed internet site 

This PG WWE era certainly one of the few opportunities for Sting to hook up with WWE, as I dont think he liked the more adult stuff at all. Having said that, it sounds like Cena did a very non-PG rap on Raw on Monday though I havent bothered watching it myself yet.


----------



## El Sueno (Feb 23, 2011)

Cena's promo was vintage - like his old heel schtick (except with every non-PG-rated line followed by a shrill hiss of whooping girls). Nice to see Rock bringing out the best in him, but the score remains Rock 1 - 0 Cena.


----------



## bromley (Mar 2, 2011)

Another great promo form The Rock, but it went on for a while.

Rock 2-0 Cena.


----------



## kained&able (Mar 2, 2011)

Im a week or two behind(wwe wise) still watching elimination chamber.

I still don't see how alberto del rio can headline wrestlemania, his match against kofi was pretty lame, he really hasn't been made yet.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Mar 3, 2011)

I'm getting really pissed of with them going on about john morrison's hardcore style. hardcore in the westling world is mick foley & raven and ecw/czw not free running/parkour!

Shitting on many peoples legacy including edge their current champion.

dave


----------



## bromley (Mar 3, 2011)

kained&able said:


> his match against kofi was pretty lame


I really enjoyed it! 

They're going on about his _parkour _style, not hardcore.

If they had any sense they'll have him win the money in the bank and hopefully have him cash it at wrestlemania, he's on fire right now!


----------



## kained&able (Mar 3, 2011)

bromley said:


> I really enjoyed it!
> 
> They're going on about his _parkour _style, not hardcore.
> 
> If they had any sense they'll have him win the money in the bank and hopefully have him cash it at wrestlemania, he's on fire right now!



Oh okay, ill let them off then, i  just can't understand Michael Cole.

Miz retaining over cena(probabley the rock gets involved)and being half dead and then morrison jumping in and taking the title would be a very good plan.

dave


----------



## bromley (Mar 9, 2011)

Does anyone watch NXT? The runner up Brodus Clay did one of the best promos I've seen for a very long time about how the WWE universe had prevented him from fulfilling his childhood dream because he didn't look like the winner (can't remember his name but he's pretty generic and will get a tag title shot with R-truth) and so he will end their dreams. Very passionate. They booked him squashing other NXT stars so keep an eye out for him and do yourself a favour and find the promo. Derek Bateman is also one to keep an eye on as he's funnier than Santino IMO.

Massive contrast to Cena's promo at The Rock which was basically a different version of his first one and made no reference to what The Rock said the week before, e.g. he will see him soon. The Miz's one afterwards was superior.


----------



## kained&able (Mar 10, 2011)

I love cenas thuganomics promos. was watching his one before his united states championship win against big show at wrestlemania(22?). He never fails to deliver a line which is meant to sound harsh but gets it round the wrong way and makes him sound gay instead. Silly man.

Havent bothered with nxt since the first series.

dave


----------



## bromley (Mar 14, 2011)

TNA's ppv is on Wednesday March 16th 2011 at 10pm on Challenge TV, I recommend you watch the main event!


----------



## kained&able (Mar 15, 2011)

Just downloading it now, have avoided clicking on spoilers but i understand hardy is in trouble over being drunk/stoned again.

I'm actually starting o get excited about wrestlemania suddenly, the undercard is looking good, although i worry about the money in the bank match, no benjamin(well probabley), punk, or edge to come up with some innovation.

Morrison and bourne are the only two likely candidates to something silly! Oh and christian to be fair.

dave


----------



## bromley (Mar 15, 2011)

Maybe they should resign Tommy Dreamer? 

Was Raw on last night, my sky+ missed it.

As for Hardy. These things sadly happen in wrestling, sending him out like that and having a 1 minute match is pure stupidity. The fact that Jeff didn't know who his opponent was on impact gave them a great Kayfabe line to change the opponent. As for Jeff himself, see you later and good luck in rehab.


----------



## kained&able (Mar 16, 2011)

Watched about half the ppv. Matt Hardy is starting to look sharp again. Pretty shite though in general. Must have been the worst ultimate x match they have run! Still its a set up for lockdown so i wouldn't expect many feuds to be hot yet. 

Last years around this time was fairly shite as well, guess the eyes of the wrestling world are on wrestlemania.

dave


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2011)

I havent watched the ppv yet, but reading about this Jeff Hardy thing makes me crazy. This company is managed by fuckwits. To hire him despite his problems, to put the title on him at various points when there is an ongoing drug-related court case against him, to put him in the main event despite him getting messed up before shows in the past and letting them down, and then to have a 1 min match instead of changing the match so that Jeff wasnt involved at all, unforgivable idiocy.


----------



## bromley (Mar 18, 2011)

elbows said:


> I havent watched the ppv yet, but reading about this Jeff Hardy thing makes me crazy. This company is managed by fuckwits. To hire him despite his problems, to put the title on him at various points when there is an ongoing drug-related court case against him, to put him in the main event despite him getting messed up before shows in the past and letting them down, and then to have a 1 min match instead of changing the match so that Jeff wasnt involved at all, unforgivable idiocy.


Fully agreed, the way Sting won the title it would have be so easy for them to change Jeff for another member of immortal. Idiots.


----------



## kained&able (Mar 18, 2011)

things is who is there in immortal at the minute?

Matt hardy had a match, abyss is off camera for the moment which leaves you with jeff jarrett and gunner & murphy. I suppose jeff could have done 10-15 mins and a run in from kurt if they were about on the day(i assume jeff was) but last minute there isn't a lot that can be done.

Was rubbish though.

RVD vs kennedy wasn't bad and aj vs matt hardy was decent the rest of it was either forgetable or just plain shite.

dave


----------



## bromley (Mar 18, 2011)

Isn't Ron Terry or whatever the big Welsh guy is called in Immortal? He would have been a decent replacement, perhaps have Steiner cost him the title? Out of all the options they had they choose the wrong one.


----------



## kained&able (Mar 18, 2011)

ahh yeah forgot about him. Rob by the way


----------



## bromley (Mar 18, 2011)

kained&able said:


> ahh yeah forgot about him. Rob by the way


It doesn't matter what his name is? 

Speaking of which, I have no enthusiasm for Wrestlemania at all, surely the most underwhelming of cards since MW13.


----------



## kained&able (Mar 18, 2011)

im just starting to be okay with it. Cena vs miz & lawler vs cole will be shit and im not overly bothered by the smackdown main event.

i have high hopes for money in the bank and orton vs punk though, and i'm fairly sure taker vs trips will be amazing.

Actually yeah you might be right. what are the us and ic matches?

dave


----------



## elbows (Mar 18, 2011)

In terms of match quality, Wrestlemania has often been a show where only 1 or 2 matches have interested me in recent years. This year is no different, but at least some of the special guests they have lined up, such as the rock and stone cold, help make it seem like a big spectacle.

Rob Terry can barely wrestle, although he has improved slowly over time in TNA. Not a good choice for a main event at this point.

Jeff Hardy has been replaced by 'Bully' Dudley in the storylines they have planned out for the near future, which happens to ruin one feud they had going that worked - Bully vs Devon, the steel cage climax to their feud will now likely be canned


----------



## kained&able (Mar 18, 2011)

nah ill be shocked if that one dies before lockdown, do worry for de-von after that has ended though, cant't imagine him wrestling singles for long. they can easily put rvd and or kenndy vs sting and it all be good. 

dave


----------



## bromley (Mar 18, 2011)

It would have made sense storyline wise. Sting has been training for Jeff and instead has to face Terry who wrestles a completely different style.


----------



## elbows (Mar 19, 2011)

kained&able said:


> nah ill be shocked if that one dies before lockdown,


 
At this point can any stupidity from TNA really shock you?


----------



## kained&able (Mar 23, 2011)

I have decided they are going to have sin cerra debut at the money in the bank match at mania. They have to make some excitemnt for it surely!

dave


----------



## bromley (Mar 31, 2011)

Seems that money in the bank will just be it's on PPV now and not on mania, which makes sense as it's enough popular to get people to pay for a PPV on it's own, not sure whether I'm for or against a Raw & Smackdown contact.

Mania is on Sunday, not expecting much so hope to be surprised.


----------



## kained&able (Mar 31, 2011)

how much do i not care about the corrre vs santino/koslov/big show/kane? really really little just about enough to bitch about the fact that wwe has pretty much killed tag team wrestling and thats it.

Also morrison, ziggler et al and snooki. Really? Shit like that really pisses me off, i feel sorry for mprrison having to try and shine that shit up.

On the plus side cm punk's great promo ability has actually got me excited about a randy orton match. Fair play. Easily the best heel in the business and pushing kurt angle all the way for best in the biz.

dave


----------



## bromley (Apr 1, 2011)

Morrison & Zigler have been the best mid-carders this year (when the year starts after 'mania and CM Punk and The Miz are considered a main eventer) to have them involved in this mix tag match is ridiculous. IMO the only match to get a decent build up is Lawler V Cole.


----------



## kained&able (Apr 1, 2011)

orton vs punk isn't bad build up wise.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Apr 2, 2011)

impact was pretty good this week, feuds being built nicely max vs jeremy buck is well worth a watch and the return of my favourite wrestler!

nice.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Apr 3, 2011)

so wrestlemania tonight!

any predictions?

WWE Title Match
John Cena vs. The Miz = cena

Triple H vs. The Undertaker = triple h, tkaer to retire.

World Heavyweight Title Match
Alberto Del Rio with Brodus Clay vs. Edge with Christian = alberto del rio with christian turning heel and costing edge the championship.

Randy Orton vs. CM Punk = punk

John Morrison, Trish Stratus and Snooki vs. Dolph Ziggler, Layla and Michelle McCool = snoki to pin layla

Ezekiel Jackson, Heath Slater, Justin Gabriel and Wade Barrett vs. Big Show, Kane, Santino Marella and kofi kingston(allegedly) = corre

Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes = i had forgotten about this one. umm errr umm rey.

Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole with Jack Swagger = cole possibly but really don't care.

WWE United States Title Match
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus = sheamus


dave(always the winner)


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 4, 2011)

just got a message from a mate who watched wrestlemania last night saying towards the end you can see a guy with a sign, near the ring that says "youth hostelling with chris eubank."


----------



## bromley (Apr 4, 2011)

What a shit Wrestlemania!


----------



## kained&able (Apr 5, 2011)

not watched it yet. My predictions were all band on the money though!

dave


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2011)

Paced all wrong and plenty of bad booking, not a great show. Was good to hear JR on commentary and the Taker HHH match was pretty good though. But all in all, the buildup to the show was better than the show itself.


----------



## kained&able (Apr 5, 2011)

yeah someone told me it started with egde vs del rio. How was that not 3rd last at the very least???

My mate says they shouldn't have got rid of money in the bank, there was just nothing to hype the crowd up properly without it.


dave


----------



## bromley (Apr 5, 2011)

Surprised how they were unable to show Sheamus V Daniels despite having a 4 hour show all that build up and promoting wasted, and starting with Edge V Rio was silly. The 8 man tag match only lasted 2 minutes! At least there wasn't a 30minute Kid Rock gig mid-show.

The best thing to happen at The Dome is still the finger poke of doom! Say all you want about WCW 1999 (I'm up to November now!) but give me that over the shit WWE & TNA serve up today.


----------



## kained&able (Apr 5, 2011)

the nash lieing down for hogan??? thing. I may have the players wrong but yeah that was an outstanding bit of tele and fan reaction.

No daniels vs sheamus? seriously? 

dave


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2011)

kained&able said:


> No daniels vs sheamus? seriously?
> 
> dave


 
It got bumped to the pre-show, and I didnt see it.


----------



## kained&able (Apr 5, 2011)

Good to them taking the mid level titles seriously. 

So no tag, us or ic title matches at wrestlemania.

dave


----------



## Bakunin (Apr 6, 2011)

bromley said:


> Say all you want about WCW 1999 (I'm up to November now!) but give me that over the shit WWE & TNA serve up today.


 
WWF (as it was) did have its moments though. Chief among them (no spoilers please, for those who haven;'t seen this match) the jaw-droppingly insane Hell In A Cell match between Mankind and the Undertaker:

[video]http://www.zkouknito.cz/video_11640_wwe-the-undertaker-the-cell[/video]

Quite how Mick Foley was still walking after this is a mystery to me.


----------



## bromley (Apr 6, 2011)

That match is to blame for my obsession with wrestling, I was flicking through channels and saw the replay of King of the King 98, it wasn't until a year last that I started watching Raw each week after the _higher power_ cliffhanger. I also found Nitro on TNT, Spring Breakout '98 was the first one I saw and it wasn't until around Bash of The Beach '99 that I watched Nitro each week.

Looks like I was right about this mania being a transitional and building up for the future...

Anyone see the hall of fame? Fantastic ending!


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 6, 2011)

wm was a bit shit though, seems even mre so after rewatching that foley video.. it just felt like every one was a bit slow and old


----------



## kained&able (Apr 7, 2011)

watched the first third of wm now.

Rio vs edge was actually quite good. The spear was a bit rushed for my liking considering it was a title match but otherwise a good job.

Could they really not have done away with chritstians intro and stopped the rock pausing so much and chucked ina 10 minute danielson/shameus match?

I'm hearing that the sin cerra debut is a truly shit piece of booking., that I will have problems with.(refuise to read spoilers untill i have watched wm)

dave


----------



## bromley (Apr 7, 2011)

I enjoyed the Sin Cerra debut, the last time I saw a lucha dore preform like that was in WCW! I would've had him debut before 'mania but obviously smarter people than me make these decisions.

The post match car vandalising could have gone as well. 

The Shamus Daniel Bryan match was a lumberjack match which ended up as battle royal! Has Vince Russo rejoined them?


----------



## kained&able (Apr 7, 2011)

i reckon the post match thing will result in a change of entarnce for del rio. No more cars. In which case fair enough.

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 9, 2011)

I watched WM the other night and have decided to indulge myself with a review like a right whiney internet upstart (contains spoilers, obviously):-

*The Rock* - came out and whooped the place up, had the crowd eating from the palm of his hand. Brilliant! It’s Wrestlemania!! The Rock ‘promises’ it will be the most memorable yet! Okay, the absence of a ‘guaran-damn-tee’ was ominous, but let's hope for the best and pray it's not all downhill from here.

*Edge vs Del Ri*o – it was all downhill from there. I had to keep reminding myself this was a Wrestlemania World Title match, it was so boring - one arm-bar after another. And Edge is just crap beyond belief, how did he ever maintain main-event status? And how long has he been in the business and he still hasn't work out how to sell an injury - he spent half the match clutching at his arm, and the other half using it as his main offence (spear and pin, for example - didn't think to use the un-injured arm, no?). Add to that a completely pointless and pathetic 'trashing' of Del Rio's ride (he can't even smash up a car without looking like he's about to injure himself) just made me hate him even more. Christian at ringside was a total waste of talent, this match was a sub-'Heat' bout from ten years ago. No chemistry whatsoever between the pair of them, Del Rio managed to look half-decent but wasn't really allowed to show his best and Edge... since when does a 9-time or whatever it is World Champ slide out of the ring, then stand hapless waiting to fall victim to an overly-choreographed ‘push’ to the barrier? It was a fucking joke.

*Mysterio vs Rhodes* - second match of the night and another 'carrying an injury' angle which made no sense at all - so Rey's 619 isn't actually supposed to hurt then? Oh riiiight. So he must've really fucked up when he connected with it... Damn, back in the day guys used to legitimately break noses, fingers, shoulders and keep on going. This was so average it belonged mid-card on Smackdown, like most Mysterio affairs. Waste of time, especially following such a labored build-up.

*8-man tag* - a surprise favourite of mine, simply for Santino's speed-walking - proper hilarious. Probably one the highlights of the night – but really, when the best thing about a WM match is a comedy walk, you know you're in for a long night. I wouldn't really call any of the moves 'spots', and considering the bar should really be raised for the biggest night on the sports entertainment calendar, this was disappointingly unadventurous even for a pointless scramble. Oh, but Big Show's new finisher was awesome though - what was it, a punch in the head? Genius! 8 guys all running around like headless chickens until Big Show punches someone for the finish. I mean, seriously – is there a writer’s strike at the moment? Ding Ding. Next please.

*Orton vs Punk* – at last, a decent angle and a decent pair of performers. They really turned it up a few notches and for a while there I was beginning to think that we’d got all the shit matches out of the way and it was gonna be great from hereon in. Even Randy Orton looked vaguely convincing but it was CM Punk who stole the show. The difference in class compared to the other bouts was all too plain to see, from the first lock-up it was clear that these two meant business, playing out a good in-ring story to a decent spot finish (the only decent spot of the night). Shame Punk had to lose, but he looked good doing it. Best match of the night for me, even though it wasn't one of Punk's best by a long shot.

*Cole vs Lawler* – I wasn’t expecting anything from this disaster waiting to happen, so I wasn’t overly disappointed - a complete waste of time (I was going to add ‘and talent’ but that would be too kind). Booker T was funny (isn’t he always? Botching moves and cracking up laughing) but that was about it. Oh, Austin nearly running down Jack Swagger was good - fuck, that quad-bike thing was quick wasn't it!! Also on the plus side, Good ol' JR makes it to another WM and finally someone in the commentary team starts trying to make sense of the matches (up until this point Josh Matthews didn’t seem to have much of a clue). I s’pose as joke matches go this wasn’t toooo bad.

*Undertaker vs HHH* – big disappointment for me ‘cos I’d heard it was the match of the night. First off Undertaker’s intro – what the fuck?? Didn’t he used to have the best intros EVER? They used to pull out all the stops for him at WM and to see a man who used to give me goose bumps limp out to some melancholy country tune just made him look weak as fuck (as far as I could make out the lyrics pretty much said “I’m old, I’m tired, Lord help me up to Heaven” – coming from a devil-worshipping Deadman… FFS!!). Started well with HHH showing that he wanted it more and looking to cause an upset, but soon enough we were into the spots which were pretty laboured, or just half-assed like when they crashed through Michael Cole’s booth in slow-motion. The only thing even approaching a ‘holy shit’ moment was when ‘Taker dived over the top rope and nearly landed face first. It got pretty exciting for a while as they continually kicked out of each others finishers, and continually kicked out of each others finishers, but where could they go from there? Just rinse and repeat. And the ending left me scratching my head too, Undertaker’s shoulders planted on the mat the whole time he had that submission locked in? I dunno, I’d had a few beers by this point but the whole thing just made me sad. Because, ultimately, watching two old men fighting to their last breath is just a bit tragic really. I hope they retire Undertaker before he starts stinking up events like Hogan used to.

*The Hall of Fame* inductions – nice to see Abdullah the Butcher again (I think he wrestled once or twice for Vince back in the 80s). But the biggest pop went, obviously, to the showstopper – the real star of the show (The Drew Carey Show, that is). Drew Carey? Hall of Fame? BAG OF SHITE.

*Snooki debacle* – nice to see Trish again. That’s about all I can say about that.

*Miz vs Cena* – loved Miz’s clip-show intro, I actually got pretty excited about this one feeling the big-time main-event atmosphere and wondering what thrills they had planned for the top of the card. At last, some young blood and no bullshit injury storyline to drag the match down! Another nice touch was the gospel choir; just when I thought I couldn’t hate Cena any more he goes off and finds God – genius! But the moment the match started, my heat sank. It was beyond terrible. Cena was useless even by his own dire standards (did he injure himself early on or something?), it was the most basic and thoughtless wrestling match I’d seen in ages. Move; near-pinfall, move; near-pinfall, over and over and over with no drama, no tension, no in-ring story, no spots, no bumps, just John fucking Cena plodding through his awful move-set and The Miz looking pretty average in everything he did. Having said that, top marks for the swerve ending – yep, you got me WWE – I never thought we’d see a double count-out in a WM main event. And with good cause. Adding further insult to injury, The Rock comes out to restart the match only to Rockbottom Cena (which he couldn’t even sell properly, landing on his useless arse) and give Miz the victory all of five seconds later. Jokes, but funny at least for the look on the little kiddies faces.

But it does ask serious questions about the current state of the product – The Rock comes out and basically apologizes for the shitty main event, then obliterates the two supposed top guys just for fun – from where I’m sat that looks like an indictment of the current roster, the state of the business and incredibly damaging to the credibility of their top stars. Where do they expect to go from here?

Having said that I should point out that I did really enjoy the show. It was in parts hilarious, weird, strange and complete bullshit just like WWE always is. It’s just a shame that there were only two decent matches in an entire four hour show.

Even The Rock couldn’t save this Wrestlemania – and there’s my lazy sound-bite for you!


----------



## bromley (Apr 10, 2011)

Great _internet _style post! To be honest my standards have slipped a lot so I missed a lot of those things. Mania this year was a transitional one to build up for a future events rather than the traditional grand daddy of them all climax of they year's events. I feel sorry for the people who travelled far to see that show, although the events in wrestlemania week looked like fun.

Has destroying an expensive object ever got a talent over? I liked the smackdown were Brotus Clay prevent Edge from destroying one of Rio's cars as it wasn't expected. I wonder how much money WWE (no longer world wrestling entertainment) have wasted.

Drew Carey HOF


----------



## kained&able (Apr 10, 2011)

agree with every in that rant other then edge being crap. Agree he did a fairly lousy job at selling the injury(throw a clothes line with the other arm for fucks sake!!!) but i like edge, good promos, good wrestler. The way he has started setting up for the spear these days annoys me but he is worthy of being top level talent, just about.

One question though when did edge and chritian become best friends rather then keyfabe brothers??? I swear they always used to be brothers?

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 10, 2011)

To be quote honest I probably missed Edge's best stuff as I haven't really watched it much over the past few years when he had his push, I'm sure there's a good reason he got over at some point (other than there being nobody else ready to step up to main-event status).

Cheers bromley, very _internet_! I might try this more often. As for being a transitional show, agree with the logic - but they did kinda shoot themselves in the foot by bringing in old stars to show up just how bereft of talent the roster is right now. Or maybe the charismatic guys didn't get a chance to shine; either way you'd think they'd bring back an old face to put the new guys over but that was the last thing they accomplished by having The Rock steamroll a main event.

And good old WC, getting in before me and articulating the Drew Carey debacle better than I could! And to be fair to the man, he did looked suitably humbled and embarrassed to be there.


----------



## kained&able (Apr 10, 2011)

how the hell are wwe meant to keep me excited about next years main event for an entire year. Ridiculous.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Apr 10, 2011)

Oh and i really really loved the miz and cena hype vids b4 wrestlemania. Two of my favourite rappers!! I wonder how much cena had to say about that? Somone who knows thier hip-hop came up with that rather then a normal producer/writer.

dave


----------



## Augie March (Apr 10, 2011)

I propose that this thread is renamed 'A thread of entertainment' in line with Vince McMahon's decision to rebrand World Wrestling Entertainment, as just WWE and removing the last reference to wrestling within the company.   

Also, why is this thread even in the sports forum anyway?


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 11, 2011)

Augie March said:


> I propose that this thread is renamed 'A thread of entertainment' in line with Vince McMahon's decision to rebrand World Wrestling Entertainment, as just WWE and removing the last reference to wrestling within the company.
> 
> Also, why is this thread even in the sports forum anyway?


 
Good point! From Wrestlecrap (thanks bromley):- 





> TV Week wrote on 3/16 a three graph story headlined “Drew Carey Inducted Into Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame...Shortly after that story was published, Kellie Baldyga, a WWE publicist, demanded that they correct the headline. She wanted the word pro wrestling out of the headline. “We are no longer a wrestling company but rather a global entertainment company with a movie studio, international licensing deals, publisher of three magazines, consumer goods distributor and more.” ... So the writer, Chuck Ross, e-mailed Baldyga, saying he would call her the next day. He gets back an e-mail saying, “Chuck, did you mean to call me today? I apologize but I really need the correction made sooner than later if possible.” Anyway, they had a conversation, where Ross mentioned that he didn’t think there was anything wrong with the headline and noted the WWE’s press release stated he “established his place in WWE history as a surprise entrant in the 2001 Royal Rumble.” He noted the 2001 Royal Rumble was a pro wrestling event. Baldyga responded, “No, we don’t do wrestling events. They’re entertainment. And we don’t call them wrestlers. They’re superstars and Divas.” Ross wrote: “I’m thinking to myself, is she kidding me? Is this woman mad? The company’s official name is World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. It’s crown jewel is an event called WrestleMania...”: He responded, “I really don’t have time for this. WWE presents wrestling events. I’m not going to change the headline or anything in the item. If you’d like, I’ll just remove it.” And she responded, “Remove it."


----------



## kained&able (Apr 11, 2011)

luckily tna and roh still refer to it as wrestling!


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 11, 2011)

kained&able said:


> luckily tna and roh still refer to it as wrestling!


 
Gawd bless ROH, the only true wrestling fed staying true to indy values (eg. crowds no more than 200 at house shows!)


----------



## kained&able (Apr 11, 2011)

the only one with a regular ppv's that are easy to get hold of anyway. Pro wrestling guerrilla, FIP and a couple of others are holding the indy side of things down as well.

dave


----------



## bromley (Apr 12, 2011)

Good news El Sueno, Edge has retired!

_"Less than a week after his successful title defense against Alberto Del Rio at WrestleMania XXVII, World Heavyweight Champion Edge has been forced to retire from in-ring competition due to injury. The unexpected news brings to an end a storied WWE career spanning 13 years and consisting of 11 World Title reigns.

The Rated-R Superstar had been suffering numbness and uncontrollable trembling in his arms and hands. This is not the first time Edge has experienced these symptoms of nueropraxia. An MRI in Atlanta last Monday was sent to Dr. Joseph Maroon, a renowned neurosurgeon and professor of neurosurgery at The Pittsburgh School of Medicine. After careful examination of the MRI, it was determined that Edge would never be cleared to compete again, and thus, he is forced to retire.

In 2003, Edge underwent a two level spinal fusion of the discs between his C5, C6 and C7 vertebrae. After being cleared to compete, The Rated-R Superstar returned to the ring, resulting in stenosis of the spine, or a narrowing of the spinal column, above and below the fused discs. This narrowing resulted in less and less of the vital fluid needed to protect the spinal cord. Medical professionals cannot clear Edge to compete ever again in WWE since doing so could result in paralysis or even death."
_


----------



## kained&able (Apr 12, 2011)

is that for real? leaves smackdown very short of top level talent.

Oh and why are wwe trying to claim sin cara's flip dive entrance is real rather then a trampampoline? bit silly. I don't see how his randomly attacking the mid level heels can work without him being able to cut a promo and explain it. He will need a mouth piece very very quickly. 

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 12, 2011)

bromley said:


> Good news El Sueno, Edge has retired!
> 
> _"Less than a week after his successful title defense against Alberto Del Rio at WrestleMania XXVII, World Heavyweight Champion Edge has been forced to retire from in-ring competition due to injury. The unexpected news brings to an end a storied WWE career spanning 13 years and consisting of 11 World Title reigns.
> 
> ...


 
I would feel like a bit of a twat to be celebrating this, serious business n' all... but y'know, every cloud..!


----------



## kained&able (Apr 12, 2011)

i suppose it might mean christian gets a push....


----------



## kained&able (Apr 19, 2011)

watching mania 24(oh my god the money in the bank match, some amazing spots in that!) while wating on tna ppv to turn up and there is a west ham flag in the crowd!

Just thought i'd share!

dave


----------



## bromley (Apr 20, 2011)

Wrestlemania 26.


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 20, 2011)

kained&able said:


> watching mania 24(oh my god the money in the bank match, some amazing spots in that!) while wating on tna ppv to turn up and there is a west ham flag in the crowd!
> 
> Just thought i'd share!
> 
> dave



Did you see this one a coupla weeks ago?


----------



## kained&able (Apr 20, 2011)

superb! watched 2/3rd of that mania now. Its not great. jbl vs finley was poor. micheals vs flair was sloppy with both of em mucking up some fairly basic things. Umanga vs batista was really poor.

Hopefully taker vs edge and the main event can save it but im not hopeful.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Apr 26, 2011)

One of the poorest wwe weeks ever. Smackdown and raw were utter shite. I'm hoping that they are jsut waiting on the darft and then will sort themselves out.

jericho needs to come back in hurry to get some main even talent back.

dave


----------



## bromley (Apr 26, 2011)

You mean the draft  that happened the week before a ppv and therefore spoiled a lot of the matches?


----------



## kained&able (May 11, 2011)

right thats me done with wwe for a while ((christian))


dave


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 11, 2011)

I did think it was pretty harsh to give him the title for just one match (unless I missed something  ).

Also, why does TNA have so much talking and so little wrestling of late? Or is that just the edit that Challenge get, for some reason?


----------



## kained&able (May 11, 2011)

nah its been a bit short of wrestling for the last few weeks, dunno why.

dave


----------



## bromley (May 11, 2011)

Why is everyone having a go at the Christian angle before it's had time to grow? Austin turned down the ECW title because it would make his character hungrier for it. The fans are going to feel sympathy for Christian, putting him that bit more over. Could be a good angle, then when he finally wins it...

As for TNA;


----------



## kained&able (May 11, 2011)

randy vs christian isn't going to be a feud though. two faces rarely works. Which either means a heel turn for christian, which will be lame, or one more match against orton and then a feud with del rio or something, which will undobtedly be a push for alberto.

I don't like it i don't like it at all.

This was just the final straw though, wwe has pissed me off a fair bit in the last month or so. Good to see kong again. The inevitable her vs beth phenoix should be very good indeed.

I will undoubtedly grab the ppv's still but nothing else unless it sound particularly great from the round ups.

dave


----------



## elbows (May 12, 2011)

Kong is almost the only person they are booking properly at the moment. Their utter failure to make new stars in recent years has caught up with them now that so many of the wrestlers they had relied upon are completely gone or semi-retired from full schedule. And these they do have left, or that have future potential, are often so badly used. I dont want to see JR wrestle badly, I want him to commentate because he can get people over and generate that sense that we are watching something important. They had something with Nexus for a while, but look how badly they ruined that. Why did they bother giving Sheamus a push and then totally drop the ball with him once he had won king of the ring? They somewhat spoilt Daniel Bryans chances by repeatedly saying he was a boring geek with no charisma and then saddling him with a dodgy storyline involving the divas. Other people get punished for petty reasons so their push suddenly ends, or dont have what it takes to make it. Rumours has it that CM Punk is unhappy and will be leaving soon. At least they are trying to push R Truth, lets see if they actually keep doing it or just let it slide like they have done so often in recent years.

Meanwhile on planet TNA they are as inept as ever and the latest has-beens to reappear there are Chyna and Chris Harris.

I just dont find the 2 largest promotions to be fun to watch too often these days, and although some of the smaller promotions are great in some ways, Im so conditioned to well-produced stuff that has a bigtime feel. 

Man I thought things had gotten a bit crappy by the mid 2000's but that period seems golden compared to this.


----------



## bromley (May 13, 2011)

I believe this is the worst period in my lifetime and must be due to them not worrying that much about the show. They don't even seem to trying to improve it either. 1999 Nitro has it's faults but is a far better show than either Raw, Smackdown or Impact. A whole shoe dedicated to The Rock's 39th birthday, jesus! 

After the attitude guys started going they pushed a few established stars and new stars likes of Lesnar, Batista, Cena and Orton. They also had a decent mid-card but it became the same people against each other, it's hilarious when they show their _from the vault_ filler segment and it's the same guys facing each other in a feud that you have no recognition of! The shows also seem to follow the same dull format each week. How long until Sin Cara is a nobody mid-carder?

Chyna is back in TNA.


----------



## El Sueno (May 13, 2011)

And there was me thinking that, after seeing Santino's speedwalking at WM, things were on the up and up in the WWE. Is Santino the only real funny character they've got right now?


----------



## bromley (May 13, 2011)

There was a guy on NXT who was funnier IMO but no idea what's happened to him.


----------



## El Sueno (May 13, 2011)

Frankly it's nice to hear I'm not missing much cos I haven't watched it since the early noughties when it really begun to stink after the brand split etc. but when I saw Santino at WM and saw his Honk-o-meter stuff on yube I thought; maybe I'm missing out on a new generation of quality 'superstars'. But nah.


----------



## kained&able (May 13, 2011)

I have no problems with chris harris getting his job back in TNA. Quality quality tag team wrestler. I highly look foward to AMW reforming and robert roode getting the singles push he is so clearly capable of.

AMW were brillient and strom can't really be a singles star so it makes sense.

Chyna ummm yeah.........

dave


----------



## bromley (May 20, 2011)

R.I.P. Macho Man.


----------



## kained&able (May 20, 2011)

oh shit! heart attack while driving. booo.


cant say i ever rated him though.

dave


----------



## bromley (May 21, 2011)

kained&able said:


> oh shit! heart attack while driving. booo.
> 
> 
> cant say i ever rated him though.
> ...


 

He's one of the best ever!!


----------



## kained&able (May 21, 2011)

gave the large macho man wwe box set a watch a couple of years back and really wasn't impressed with his in ring stuff. Great gimmick, great charisma great promos but i thought he is very sloppy and very limited in ring.

dave


----------



## bromley (May 22, 2011)

You inspired me more than this world will ever know. Enjoy.

You were a tower of power that was too sweet to be sour,
You were funky like a monkey every minute of every hour.
For you, space was the place and time distortion had to be,
And your fans here on earth wanted the madness for eternity.
You met every challenge with fists clinched and face to face,
You even fought and defeats dragons and snakes.
Flying off the ropes with an elbow drop,
There was no way you could ever be stopped.
Identifiable by your voice alone,
Even being Dubbed the macho king while you sat on your throne.
We hung on your words with interviews memorable and classic,
And we knew it was serious when you took off your glasses.
I promise not to lose you in the sands of time,
For you will always be that all time hero of mine.

--jay lethal--

RIP Randy


----------



## kained&able (May 22, 2011)

nice! Ims ure he will get a hell of a lot of indy gigs doing his macho man impersonation/homage for a while.

dave


----------



## elbows (May 24, 2011)

kained&able said:


> gave the large macho man wwe box set a watch a couple of years back and really wasn't impressed with his in ring stuff. Great gimmick, great charisma great promos but i thought he is very sloppy and very limited in ring.
> 
> dave


 
Are you nuts? In what way was he sloppy in the ring?

At least he saved us from the rapture


----------



## elbows (May 24, 2011)

kained&able said:


> I have no problems with chris harris getting his job back in TNA. Quality quality tag team wrestler. I highly look foward to AMW reforming and robert roode getting the singles push he is so clearly capable of.
> 
> AMW were brillient and strom can't really be a singles star so it makes sense.


 
I didnt see the show but I hear that Chris Harris just doesnt have it anymore, no good, and the fans responded far more to Chyna!


----------



## kained&able (May 24, 2011)

elbows said:


> I didnt see the show but I hear that Chris Harris just doesnt have it anymore, no good, and the fans responded far more to Chyna!



He was very very slow and rusty, see what he is like after another few weeks under his belt. He needs to step up though as otherwise James Storms career will be over soon!

Chyna was always going to get the larger pop. 

dave


----------



## elbows (May 24, 2011)

kained&able said:


> Chyna was always going to get the larger pop.


 
True, but apparently the fans didnt seem to give two shits about the old AMW during the match where they tried to play off the history a bit.

With Chris Harris it could just be ring rust, but he was not the same wrestler in WWE either, so its possible that for whatever reason he lost what made him a talent years ago and cant get it back.

Anyway as I thought I might some posts back, I've temporarily given up on modern wrestling and am just watching old stuff here and there. I would like to be able to get my hands on some Smoky Mountain Wrestling but havent found any yet.

From what I have read recently, TNA remains a lost cause, WWE is at least trying to get a few people over (eg R Truth), and ROH has been sold to a media company. They plan to improve production values so I will give their product a try when it relaunches around September I believe.

I have heard that WWE already strayed from the simple and effective direction with Kharma, doh, cant they do anything right these days? At least there are strong signs that C M Punk has come to new terms with WWE as they have started pushing him again recently rather than burying him.


----------



## bromley (May 24, 2011)

Congrats to the WWE for putting together the worst ever I quit match.


----------



## kained&able (May 24, 2011)

havent watched over the limit yet(whats going on with the shit ppv names at the moment????) but yeah mates said it was more then a little pongy.

dave


----------



## elbows (May 25, 2011)

Ok apparently the reason Kharma angle went odd is that she is pregnant and so will be away from the ring for quite some time. Timing!


----------



## bromley (May 25, 2011)

elbows said:


> Ok apparently the reason Kharma angle went odd is that she is pregnant and so will be away from the ring for quite some time. Timing!


Jesus christ, you couldn't make it up!

A lot of internet types like to slate some of the old stuff, but this era is the worse!


----------



## Bakunin (May 26, 2011)

bromley said:


> Jesus christ, you couldn't make it up!
> 
> A lot of internet types like to slate some of the old stuff, but this era is the worse!


 
And to think that WWE once produced such great matches as this:

[video]http://www.myspace.com/video/taekwondo4life/wwe-backlash-randy-orton-vs-cactus-jack/30085029[/video]


----------



## kained&able (May 26, 2011)

yeah last 3/4 maybe 5 years have been fairly shit. Few notable exceptions(demond wolfe vs kurt angle & machine guns vs beer money series spring to mind)

dave


----------



## bromley (May 26, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> And to think that WWE once produced such great matches as this:
> 
> [video]http://www.myspace.com/video/taekwondo4life/wwe-backlash-randy-orton-vs-cactus-jack/30085029[/video]


Those were the days! Just before the PG rating and having a face hold the title for years on end, which was dull back in the 80s!


----------



## kained&able (May 26, 2011)

bout half way through over the limit.

christian vs orton was very good as was rey vs truth. Lovig truth as a heel, loving the no entrance music, hopefully he gets a proper push.

Chave vs sin cara was hugely disserpointing how many botched arm drags!!! and quite frankly if thats the best chavo can do these days he needs to stop claiming he is a luchadore or just plain retire. Rest was fairly shit and i actually fell asleep for a bit during barret vs ahmed jackson and missed the ending.

I just cant bring myself to watch a wwe ppv all in one sitting anymore. 

dave


----------



## bromley (Jun 6, 2011)

Does Sin Cara use a trampoline during his entrance?


----------



## kained&able (Jun 6, 2011)

yes, have to say i do love the way they do the lights for his matches.

dave


----------



## elbows (Jun 8, 2011)

bromley said:


> Does Sin Cara use a trampoline during his entrance?


 
Yes, and apparently when he did a run-in it was rather spoilt for the people in attendance as people had to come out beforehand to setup the trampoline 

TNA storylines even more doomed than usual because after all that network stuff buildup Foley has decided to leave due to creative differences.


----------



## bromley (Jun 8, 2011)

elbows said:


> Yes, and apparently when he did a run-in it was rather spoilt for the people in attendance as people had to come out beforehand to setup the trampoline
> 
> TNA storylines even more doomed than usual because after all that network stuff buildup Foley has decided to leave due to creative differences.


 
That's why I asked, it ruins the surprise. I think on his debut he didn't use a trampoline as he just scraped over the top rope.


----------



## kained&able (Jun 8, 2011)

nah they just fucked up the positioning. Honestly no one in the world ever has a vertical leap that good your talking somone foward rolling over 8ft(at least!! in the air!!

Thats world recored height  for the high jump while doing a foward roll/plancha!!!

dave


----------



## bromley (Jun 13, 2011)

Next you'll tell me that Foley didn't fall 50 ft off of the hell in the cell! 

It's still real to me!!


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 14, 2011)

I havent watched wrestling for *years*.

Where does this lady fight? http://www.isistheamazon.com/about - she's 6 foot 9.


----------



## kained&able (Jun 14, 2011)

she had a trial for tna a month or so ago but was deemed to shit to bother with. She was going to be in wwe a while back as well but they found an excuse  to can her that i can't quite remember, possibly something to do with some porn photos she had done or something.

Oh and everything mick foley ever did was real. Clearly.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Jun 18, 2011)

what wrestling news type sites do people on here use? one im using is annoying me.

dave


----------



## bromley (Jun 18, 2011)

kained&able said:


> what wrestling news type sites do people on here use? one im using is annoying me.
> 
> dave


 
None, used to go on 4wrestling 12 years ago or so, now I don't have the interest.


----------



## bromley (Jun 21, 2011)

I've seen capitol punishment, the CM Punk V Rey match was fantastic. Instead of the same old reversal spots they were reversing the reversals, which I haven't seen outside the idies for a while. They had a Obama lookalike to a speech then a spinaroni (what happened to Mark Maden?) with Booker T, which reminded me of the crap they did in the _new generation era_, utter shite.


----------



## kained&able (Jun 21, 2011)

had my computer down for a week or so , so catching up.

watching the tna ppv at the minute, so far its been pretty danm good!

scott setiner vs matt morgan was supsringly very good!

oh brilliant! I have a rey vs punk match from at a guess immediately after wcw closed down(rey was unmasked so must have been when he was party of the filthy animals) for some tiny federation, truely great match! I might actually grab the wwe ppv then!

dave


----------



## bromley (Jun 26, 2011)

http://www.wwe.com/inside/chavo-guerrero-release.

Could be TNA's gain.


----------



## bromley (Jun 28, 2011)

WOW!


----------



## El Sueno (Jun 29, 2011)

bromley said:


> WOW!




I was about to post this. Unbelievably awesome, he's a fucking legend. I thought his quitting ROH heat was good but this is about as good as it gets. Reminds me of the Heyman shoot he did when he left.



"I don't suck, Vegas sucks, that was awesome"


----------



## kained&able (Jun 29, 2011)

so is punk actually leaving or is this the most genius swerve/bit of booking ever?

punk is probabley about the best in the business along with angle at the minute.

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Jun 29, 2011)

I can't think of anyone better either on the mic or in the ring than CM Punk right now, or for the past five years come to think of it.


----------



## kained&able (Jun 29, 2011)

in ring kurt angle, on the mic quite simply untouchable.

punk is one of the best heels of all time!

dave


----------



## elbows (Jun 30, 2011)

kained&able said:


> so is punk actually leaving or is this the most genius swerve/bit of booking ever?


 
Its not completely clear. His contract is due to end soon, and it was widely thought that he was originally going to leave. But since then they gave him a push and then started this angle, many people think a deal has been done where he will either stay, or have a break for some months and then return. Whatever the reality is, its certainly an angle now so not a true shoot situation, but seems awesome anyway. When WWE are actually prepared to go with something like this, it gives me a glimmer of hope for the future, although I usually expect them to drop the ball at some point.


----------



## bromley (Jul 2, 2011)

CM Punk is suspended and Vince is issuing a statement on Raw, good move IMO can't wait to see where they go with this!

Mark Henry has finally been booked properly! I think he'll make a good upper mid-carder, perhaps give him the belt for a month or so to make him seem more legit and use him to get over new talent in to the main event. I would also give him a length run with the IC/US title.


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 18, 2011)

Cm punk! Cm punk!


----------



## bromley (Jul 18, 2011)

Cm punk :d


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 19, 2011)

Best WWE PPV I've seen in years and the best main event I can remember.


----------



## bromley (Jul 19, 2011)

Best finish to a PPV ever IMO. Even better than The Empire Strikes Back!

Can't believe Danielson won MITB, it was like an internet fan's wildest dream!


----------



## elbows (Jul 19, 2011)

Yay, they rose to the occasion nicely, I think it was actually good for them to run low on big stars as its forced them to shake things up.

Doh the Sin Cara injury angle during MITB was because he failed a drug test and is suspended.


----------



## bromley (Jul 19, 2011)

elbows said:


> Doh the Sin Cara injury angle during MITB was because he failed a drug test and is suspended.


Shame, TBH he doesn't compare to the better lucha dores that WCW had in the 90s. He's not on the same level as Rey (back then) or Juvi. 

Got to love wrestling though, fail a drugs test and you're going through a steel ladder on the next ppv! 

Bash At The Beach '96 had an amazing finish, I think Money In The Bank equalled it. I was left wondering what the hell is going on!

I just hope they're going to keep this momentum going. Surely there's a new writer?


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 21, 2011)

bromley said:


> Best finish to a PPV ever IMO. Even better than The Empire Strikes Back!
> 
> Can't believe Danielson won MITB, it was like an internet fan's wildest dream!


 
True dat. It's like they made this PPV _just _for the internet fans - when was the last time WWE actually rewarded their best workers like this? Incredible!

Hey how do you do that spoiler/hide text thing? Cos I want to talk about the following Raw but don't know if anyone's seen it yet (I'm a bit of an insomniac so ended up streaming it live on Monday night/Tuesday morning)

Also on a side note, how many more times are they going to push Mark Henry to the moon before they realise he's simply not main event material? He's now taken out Kane and Big Show but can he push his way into the main-event power struggle with Christian, Orton and Sheamus? Doesn't look likely.


----------



## bromley (Jul 21, 2011)

I don't think the spoiler thing is enabled on this forum.



Spoiler



TEST



Raw was a bit of a let down. Cena bores me on the mic.

As for Henry, I think he can be a great upper mid-carder as I said on a previous post, definitely never a main eventer.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 21, 2011)

I think a traditional kwik-fix is to post in white, then people can highlight the text to read it.

Like this?


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 21, 2011)

bromley said:


> I don't think the spoiler thing is enabled on this forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler: you



are doing it wrong!


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 21, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> Spoiler: you
> 
> 
> 
> are doing it wrong!


 


Spoiler: you



like this?



Ah, nice one. So has everyone seen Raw this week or should I do it 



Spoiler: you



like this?


?


----------



## bromley (Jul 21, 2011)

Spoiler: Raw



Triple H is now the chairman of the board. YAWN!


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 21, 2011)

bromley said:


> Spoiler: Raw
> 
> 
> 
> Triple H is now the chairman of the board. YAWN!


 


Spoiler: Raw



Yep, what a fucking let-down after MITB. I suppose it was too much to ask for WW_E_ not to drop the ball but they ruined a great chance to keep momentum going following that PPV. We get a tournament and the inevitable Cena-not-getting-fired, no questions answered about Punk and the ramifications of him leaving with the title. Bullshit.


----------



## elbows (Jul 22, 2011)

I dont think they have completely dropped the ball yet, although the tournament was done too soon. But apparently the Raw rating wasn't very good, so the chances of them changing their plans is probably high and may result in some dodgy decisions.

As for Punk, I believe they are trying to continue the story away from their main shows - they are trying to get Punk to appear in various media, and I heard something about a confrontation between Punk and HHH at some comic conference where WWE were present in conjunction with their toy manufacturer Mattel.

Sin Cara may not be returning after his suspension.

As for Mark Henry, its fine to give this sort of heel a temporary main event push, just don't try to make it last too long. Last time I remember Henry getting a monster push was many years ago, and it ended when he inured himself. Done a better job this time, but people like Orton are rather understandably not to keen to work with him.


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 22, 2011)

Did anyone else pick up on the massive "nod" to the montreal screwjob during the cm punk/cena match?
Last match, home town, title match, submission hold, vince at ringside, asking to ring the bell to throw the match etc.
Great tv.


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 22, 2011)

I just saw the comic convention clip.. yep this is one good work. Nice to see them thinking outside the box and running storylines outside of regular WW_E _tv programming. Like it a lot.


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 26, 2011)

btw there's a decent Sabu documentary up on yube at the moment which any self-respecting wrasslin' fan ought to check out...



Part 1 through to 13 taking in practically his whole career with lots of footage from FMW etc. Quality.


----------



## bromley (Jul 26, 2011)

Spoiler: raw



CM Punk off of tv for only a week, what a load of shit.


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 26, 2011)

bromley said:


> Spoiler: raw
> 
> 
> 
> CM Punk off of tv for only a week, what a load of shit.


 
I wish they had the balls to see a decent long-term angle through. But I think we all knew it was too much to ask of them.


----------



## kained&able (Jul 27, 2011)

yeah he should have gone to roh for a month  with the championship.

dave


----------



## bromley (Jul 27, 2011)

kained&able said:


> yeah he should have gone to roh for a month  with the championship.
> 
> dave


No as that would've been bad for WWE. He should've come back before mania with his title and claimed to be the real champ. I would've done it at Chicago!


----------



## elbows (Jul 27, 2011)

The timing was bad in regards to ROH even if they had wanted to do it, since ROH don't get a show on TV again till September (taped sometime in August). This is because ROH lost their old TV deal ages ago, and a new deal involving them being sold to a media company that has some US channels went through a while back, and they decided to wait a little while before adding the show to their channel schedule.


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 27, 2011)

Now I've seen Raw I don't think it was such a bad show actually, great to see JR back and Trips doing a nice job in charge. Bit predictable seeing as the first match was a main-event, you just knew Cena would find his way onto the card before the night was done. But at the end of the day it's all about CM Punk right now, I can't believe how fucking over that guy is at the moment. He's causing a minor revolution, feels like a new era is upon us with him leading the charge. I think it's about time WWE drop the PG13 direction and go with Attitude v2. Exciting times indeed, now if only creative can find a way to sustain this until Mania we might be looking at a decent product again for the first time in quite a while.


----------



## kained&able (Jul 28, 2011)

in other news according to pro wrestling insider the miz is the best wrestler in the world.

Really? no cm punk no kurt angle. The miz.

I don't have a problem with the bloke great on the mic and decent enough in the ring, but i'd be annoyed if i couldn't think of a top 10 that didn't include him.

dave


----------



## bromley (Jul 28, 2011)

That sums up how poor the industry is. During the peak he wouldn't have been anything more than a mid-carder. Angle isn't as good as he once was and Punk should've won it. 

I don't think he's great on the mic, just good at getting cheap heat and solid in the ring. Whereas Punk is exception on the mic and very good in the ring. Perhaps The Miz's character and his work-rate are what have brought him to the main-event. He's certainly not as good in the ring as someone like Dolph Zigler.


----------



## kained&able (Jul 28, 2011)

only the top place has been released thus far but i reckon my top 10 would be:

CM Punk(wwe)
Kurt Angle(tna)
AJ Styles(tna)
Edge(wwe retired)
Randy Orton(wwe)
Alex shelly(tna, okay i know he wont make any one else's list but he is my fav wrestler at the minute)
claudio castinogli(ROH)
austin aries(tna/roh)
Sheamus(wwe)
Mr anderson(tna)

dave


----------



## bromley (Jul 28, 2011)

I can't stand Mr Anderson, his promos are very dull and annoying. I like Sheamus though. I've only seen Austin Aries recently on TNA and have been very impressed. Maybe add Robert Rhode to your list?


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 28, 2011)

I'd add Santino to the list, purely for the comedy value. His speed-walking to the ring at WM still makes me chuckle and most of his promos have been priceless, just what the show needs.


----------



## kained&able (Jul 28, 2011)

bromley said:


> I can't stand Mr Anderson, his promos are very dull and annoying. I like Sheamus though. I've only seen Austin Aries recently on TNA and have been very impressed. Maybe add Robert Rhode to your list?



he amuses me!

Aries is the only man to ever hold the roh world champonship twice i think. Been a huge fan of his for a long time.

Robert roode is class but hasn't had the push yet, wouldnt be shocked if he is top 10 for me next year though. TNA seem to be lineing up a big push for him. Poor james storm.

stantino is no eric young!

dave


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 28, 2011)

I've always quite liked Mr. Anderson, always thought he had a bit more to him than your average wrestler, but he's started to grate recently. Dunno if he's being overused, or just used in the wrong way, but he's not as fun as he used to be.


----------



## bromley (Jul 28, 2011)

Eric Young makes Santino look like Jo Brand. I often wonder if he would be better off in comedy! His tag matches when he was tagged with Orlando were fantastic!


----------



## kained&able (Jul 28, 2011)

yeah his charecter is just so funny, i do pity him though beacuse he is clearly a very very good wrestler but will never get a chance to show it properly beacuse he is far far too entertaining as a comedy face.

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Jul 29, 2011)

kained&able said:


> Alex shelly(tna, okay i know he wont make any one else's list but he is my fav wrestler at the minute)
> 
> dave



I think Shelly and Sabin (I think thats how it's spelt) are great


----------



## kained&able (Jul 29, 2011)

best tag team around fir my money. Although beer money may have arguements.

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Jul 29, 2011)

kained&able said:


> best tag team around fir my money. Although beer money may have arguements.
> 
> dave



Yep, best tag team and they don't come across as twats like most wrestlers


----------



## bromley (Aug 3, 2011)

Shades of Royal Rumble '94 with who gets the loudest cheer contest between Punk and Cena, they also had a poll.

Cena came out the winner.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 4, 2011)

just downloaded this weeks raw(starting to watch again just to watch punks promos) people say it was a contrversial decision!

I take it it wasn't a proper wrestling town it was in(philly, chicago, torronto etc)

dave


----------



## kained&able (Aug 11, 2011)

watched most of the last tna ppv last ni8ght. looks as though they are actually letting everyone wrestle again!!

Few mistakes here and there(always likely considering some of the moves they were trying to hit) but was a lot more in the style of 5/6 years ago! So far highlights have been the alex shelly, asutin aries and brian kendrick triple threat. The kazerian, styles & daniels vs gunner, abyss & steiner match and shockingly the tara/tesmacher vs sarita/rosita match.

Bully ray vs anderson was a bit shit.

Just got the tag titles and sting vs angle match to go.

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 11, 2011)

who won the shelly, aries, kendrick match?


----------



## bromley (Aug 11, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> who won the shelly, aries, kendrick match?


Check out google, we try and avoid posting spoilers here!

Judging the posts above, the new board has a different code 



Spoiler



TEST


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 11, 2011)

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2011/0808/542713/goldberg/

goldberg was shit !!!


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

I hear there was some legendary 'so bad its good' TV from TNA a couple of weeks back, Sting & the bird that was used to scare Bischoff, dear oh dear, I love wrestling skits when they are this shit.


----------



## bromley (Aug 11, 2011)

Whatever, Goldberg was great, everyone got caught up in the streek.

Yeah, proper wrestleshit from TNA. Heath Ledger Sting walked about with a cover over a cage throughout the show and before the main even he took off the cover to reveal a bird cage. He released the bird in Bischoff's office and told him it would peck his eyes out...

Meanwhile in WWE CM Punk is cutting the most cutting-edge promos in wrestling history.


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

Oh joy, someone put the relevant segments on youtube, with added laughter track. Warning -there seems to be a rude sample at the start of the video.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> Oh joy, someone put the relevant segments on youtube, with added laughter track. Warning -there seems to be a rude sample at the start of the video.




That was fucking terrible


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 12, 2011)

bromley said:


> Whatever, Goldberg was great, everyone got caught up in the streek.
> .



the streak was rubbish. Goldberg would just come out spear someone straight away and walk off again. The only time i don't remember that happening is when Tank Abbot punched him and thought he'd knocked goldberg out (because tank abbot can knock some one out with just one punch) but goldberg wasn't knocked out and he speared tank abbot and got the 3 count.


----------



## bromley (Aug 12, 2011)

The Goldberg Tank Abbot shoot angle is the world angle in the history of wrestling.

He would hit the jackhammer after the spear, great stuff!


----------



## kained&able (Aug 12, 2011)

wwe wise i remember goldberg being amazing in an elimination chamber match but that is about it. wcw goldberg, i used to turn over to raw by the time he would be on so saw very little. Really couldn't be arsed with his super mega push though.

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Aug 15, 2011)

Anyone watching Summerslam? Two matches in and it's suddenly turned into some T4 Party on the Beach bullshit.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 15, 2011)

El Sueno said:


> Anyone watching Summerslam? Two matches in and it's suddenly turned into some T4 Party on the Beach bullshit.


That always happens at summerslam.


----------



## bromley (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah that party thing did suck, god bless the inventor of the fast forward button.

Orton V Christian was great and for the second month in a row the PPV had a brilliant ending.


----------



## El Sueno (Aug 16, 2011)

Yeah that's two in a row now... something's up! Still a bit pissy about the ending, it was... how can I put this, a bit wCw? Not just cos Old Creaky was involved, but the whole swerve was just a bit predictable. And naturally gutted for Punk but let's just hope they've got a plan (and that it doesn't involve Nash ever main-eventing again)


----------



## bromley (Aug 16, 2011)

Well I certainly didn't see that ending coming! Perhaps I misunderstand you?! My initial feeling was that Nash was Del Rio's enforcer, but then after releasing that it's 2011 and 1995 and Nash had a good hair dye. I'm hoping it's just as a non-wrestling role with the occasional Jack Knife as he is good on the mic and witty.

Perhaps he's the anonymous GM?!


----------



## El Sueno (Aug 16, 2011)

I'd completely forgotten about the anonymous GM angle!

What I meant was, Del Rio cashing in his MITB was pretty obvious, sure it was a surprise to see Nash involved (and make it into the ring without tearing a quad) but it looks like it's him and HHH in this together. Which just brought back the sour taste of the clique.


----------



## bromley (Aug 17, 2011)

I didn't see Del Rio cashing it in after so many recent title changes, although one of the commentators did hint it on the previous smackdown!

The kilq was cool, back when NWO and DX were on their first run, now it just screams of we're out of ideas. Nash was good on the mic on Monday, doing his serious routine.


----------



## El Sueno (Aug 18, 2011)

Nash was good but Punk owned him! I didn't think I could love that man any more but this is getting worrying...


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2011)

Nash was humbled, lol, its what he deserved given his ego-based comments about other workers over the years. He was over the moon with the response he got when he was in the Royal Rumble, but of course it made him think he was well over with fans, and so he pushed to get back on tv. Only to have loads of people at Summer Slam not know or care about him, and then Punk ate his lunch on RAW.

As for the 'him and HHH in it together', that seems quite possible, but on the other hand I would not be surprised if they do some swerve where it was Stephanie who asked Nash to get involved after the match at Summer Slam, not HHH.


----------



## bromley (Aug 19, 2011)

They do seem to be hinting at Stephanie screwing Punk or Del Rio, to be honest the angle doesn't interest me.

Nash got to where he is by being smart and playing the game. He is good on the mic but not as good as Punk so he didn't get in to the verbal battle which he would've lost, Cena has been a prime example of this when he thought he could take on The Rock! Nash played it straight showed no reaction and only pointed out that he should be respected, he did a decent job in my opinion, no one can touch Punk at the moment!

Going back to Cena, WTF? A promo on Del Rio for cashing in whilst Punk was weak, which is the whole point of money in the bank and then claiming that he would have to defend the title one day, moments after he defended it against Rey? I don't care for his work rate and what he does out of the ring, he's doesn't deserve his position in the company. I wonder how many TNA fans there are because of him?! As The Rock said, he's the only (face) wrestler who gets booed in his home town.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 19, 2011)

hell most of the heels get cheered in their home town!

not seen raw or summerslam yet but they are in the queue.

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Aug 19, 2011)

Anyone else in shock at the Divas match at SS? I can't get over how good Kelly Kelly looked. And by that I mean, working a match - unbelievable, she actually looks to be taking the whole title thing quite seriously. Athletic counters and a botch-to-spot ratio that is unprecedented in a Divas match up. Whatever next!


----------



## kained&able (Aug 19, 2011)

did they release gail kim yet? i really want her back in tna.


----------



## bromley (Aug 20, 2011)

Gail Kim got released because she eliminated herself from a battle royal to see if anyone would notice.

I always fast forward the diva's match!


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2011)

They won't let her out of her contract, so dent expect to see her anywhere else until her contract expires later in the year.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 22, 2011)

best release story ever! Matt hardy has been released from tna for being a drunk.

summerslam was very good! didn't enjoy the punk/cena match that much(cena shouldn't try to wrestle that kind of mtach, he just plain can't) but the rest of it was really impressive. The 6 man tag was probabley my favourite match. Booked and wrestled perfectly.

Seems like both wwe and tna have stepped it up in the past couple of months,

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 22, 2011)

kained&able said:


> best release story ever! Matt hardy has been released from tna for being a drunk.
> 
> summerslam was very good! didn't enjoy the punk/cena match that much(cena shouldn't try to wrestle that kind of mtach, he just plain can't) but the rest of it was really impressive. The 6 man tag was probabley my favourite match. Booked and wrestled perfectly.
> 
> ...



I downloaded summer slam and watched it yesterday. The Christian/Orton match was the highlight for me.

I don't get Cena, and after watching WWE experience it looks like they are setting him up for a grudge with Alberto Del Rio which means Punk probably won't be getting the title back.


----------



## bromley (Aug 22, 2011)

Hardy has been released by WWE & TNA within a year, I wonder if he can complete the hat trick at ROH?

WWE have stepped it up as I've mentioned before, but TNA? The Angel heel turn and bound for glory series are dull! Although it seems like they may push the X-Division and the weight limit is a step in the right direction. I wish WWE had pushed the crusierweight division properly, I think hornswoggle is still the champion! TNA have definitely shown how popular it can be.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 22, 2011)

bromley said:


> Hardy has been released by WWE & TNA within a year, I wonder if he can complete the hat trick at ROH?
> 
> WWE have stepped it up as I've mentioned before, but TNA? The Angel heel turn and bound for glory series are dull! Although it seems like they may push the X-Division and the weight limit is a step in the right direction. I wish WWE had pushed the crusierweight division properly, I think hornswoggle is still the champion! TNA have definitely shown how popular it can be.


 
I much prefer the TNA wrestling outside the main events (never seen a tna main event). It just seems like WWE serves up the same rubbish to get a story going so people then HAVE to buy (or download) a main event to see the good stuff.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 22, 2011)

bromley said:


> Hardy has been released by WWE & TNA within a year, I wonder if he can complete the hat trick at ROH?
> 
> WWE have stepped it up as I've mentioned before, but TNA? The Angel heel turn and bound for glory series are dull! Although it seems like they may push the X-Division and the weight limit is a step in the right direction. I wish WWE had pushed the crusierweight division properly, I think hornswoggle is still the champion! TNA have definitely shown how popular it can be.



I disagree. the bound for glory series is a great way to make mid card matches matter. I mean normally who the hell would give a crap about say d-von vs james storm It is also giving roode/crimson and matt morgan(till he got injured) the push that they all need.

Angle going heel doesn't really make sense yet, but it isn't a bad way to have him go against some of the younger faces that are in need of a push. There isn't really a heel that could do that. Bully ray isn't respected enough and well there just aren't a lot of top heels in tna at the minute!

My only problem with x-divsion now having a weight limit is it means that samoa joe can't get involved. But hopefully he will be pushed very hard back to the main event soon.

dave


----------



## elbows (Aug 23, 2011)

Matt Hardy continues his stagger down a dark path. Apparently he posted the following after his crash, a crash which may result in a charge of driving whilst impaired.

"When the side windows glass smashed into my face, arms and neck, some of the blood that did felt almost angelic.  I went from being afraid to die to feeling like I was almost being reborn with some sort of an ABSOLUTE PURE LIFE-FORCE.  It was the most amazing thing I've every experience.  I felt like I'd just received the blood of an angel flowing inside me--I know this sounds crazy!  Due to these, I only have urges to help people.  And miraculously, all my vices are gone."


----------



## bromley (Aug 23, 2011)

The issues I had with bound for glory are as follows:

1) D Von and James Storm aren't going to win it so I still don't give a shit about their matches.
2) There's no football style fixtures lists, so you don't know who still has to face who and the implications etc.
3) Further to point 2, they're making it up as they go along! Immortal V Crimson 3-1 handicap match? Pleeeease!

I think my problem with the Angle heel turn was how it was done, no hints of build up and a sudden change. All good heel changes need to make sense and blaming Dixie Carter for his divorce and therefore siding with Hogan reminds me of a lot of the strange turns in the 90s, especially after all of his face promos.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 23, 2011)

i agree with 2 entirely!


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 23, 2011)

How long has the bound for glory thing got left to run?


----------



## kained&able (Aug 23, 2011)

till the next ppv in theory so umm 2/3 weeks probably.

I really hope roode wins it, he deserves to be main eventing. James storm will be fucked though.

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 23, 2011)

kained&able said:


> till the next ppv in theory so umm 2/3 weeks probably.
> 
> I really hope roode wins it, he deserves to be main eventing. James storm will be fucked though.
> 
> dave



Roode and Storm are still tag team champs though aren't they ?

I just had a look at the standings


*Latest Bound for Glory Series Standings (Win-Loss-Draw-Tag Victory Did Not Score Fall For Points) -- # Matches*

 (1) Crimson: 50 points (7-0-1-2) -- 10 matches
 (2) Bully Ray: 42 points (6-7-0-0) -- 13 matches
 (3) Robert Roode: 35 points (5-2-0-5) -- 12 matches
 (4) James Storm: 33 points (5-2-0-3) -- 10 matches
 (5) Brother Devon: 30 points (4-10-1-0) -- 15 matches
 (6) Gunner: 28 points (4-11-0-0) -- 15 matches
 (7) A.J. Styles: 24 points (4-6-0-0) -- 10 matches
 (8) Scott Steiner: 21 points (3-6-0-0) -- 9 matches
 (9) The Pope: 17 points (3-9-0-1) -- 13 matches
 (10) Rob Van Dam: 15 points (5-4-0-0) -- 9 matches
 (11) Samoa Joe: -10 points (0-10-0-0) -- 10 matches
Matt Morgan: 24 points (3-2-0-0) -- 5 matches

I'm not sure who crimson is but I really don't like any of those wrestlers (especially A J Styles - the Cena of TNA )


----------



## kained&able (Aug 23, 2011)

crimson is that massive golberg wannabe.

Sorry you don't rate aj styles? are you mad? Quality quality wrestler. And he is nothing like cena as he can do more than 5 moves and is entirely over with the fans. He is the golden boy though which is where i guess your going with it, but its not like he is given the title that often.

Mexican america just took the tag titles off em last week. the tag divison has been gutted 

Out of those lot i like roode, aj, rvd, joe and matt morgan. Pope and bully ray are decent enough and gunner and crimson are both showing potential. Never been arsed with steiner and really don't buy storm and d-von as singles wrestlers.

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 23, 2011)

kained&able said:


> Sorry you don't rate aj styles? are you mad? Quality quality wrestler. And he is nothing like cena as he can do more than 5 moves and is entirely over with the fans. He is the golden boy though which is where i guess your going with it, but its not like he is given the title that often.



He always seems over hyped to me and character wise he isn't that strong which is where I get the Cena comparisons . Both TNA and WWE are lacking in likeable stars at the moment ( CM Punk is an exception and I think so are Sabin and Shelley but I'm a big Motor City Machine Guns fan )


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 23, 2011)




----------



## kained&able (Aug 23, 2011)

that is fair enough, he lacks a lil on the charisma department. In ring though there are few better and he is decent enough on the mic.

I give you rvd for tna and rey mysetrio as very liked characters in both feds.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 23, 2011)

kained&able said:


> I give you rvd for tna and rey mysetrio as very liked characters in both feds.



yeah they are liked but I don't really see why apart from their actual wrestling. In fact I used to like Rey Mysetrio but he just annoys me now. Fucking 619 is getting old.


----------



## bromley (Aug 23, 2011)

So 2 to 3 weeks to go and we have RVD on 9 matches and Devon on 15! So what's the crack, Devon has had all his matches and RVD will have 6 in 2 to 3 weeks? I have no idea as nothing has been mentioned! It reminds me of NXT which also appears to be made up as they go along.

AJ Styles is a great wrestler and unlike Cena he hasn't been 't had long title reigns and wins against the odds, I don't get the comparison but agree that there aren't many likeable charctors in eithr fed, Punk excluded.

Rey was so good in the mid-90s! He's sometimes on WWE Vintage in his masked WCW prime, or download Halloween Havoc '97 or any early ppv match against Juvi or Ultimo Dragon (I can't remember if the faced each other on ppv!) or Dean Malenko.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 23, 2011)

I found Halloween Havoc ;96 and '98 but not '97 . I'm downloading them anyway


----------



## bromley (Aug 24, 2011)

98 is my fav Goldberg match, DDP's back must have been hurting for ages afterwards!  I think Hogan stank up both by fighting two fossils in Piper (I think) & Warrior.

I saw Raw last night, twice the crowd threw Cena his shirt back!  Yes Vince, he's your biggest face!


----------



## kained&able (Aug 24, 2011)

class, im a week behind in wwe land 

my fav goldberg match was an elimination chamber in wwe. He was class in that. Think it was trips, hbk, orton and jerico, possibly summer slam in 2002/03 or something.

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 24, 2011)

kained&able said:


> class, im a week behind in wwe land
> 
> my fav goldberg match was an elimination chamber in wwe. He was class in that. Think it was trips, hbk, orton and jerico, possibly summer slam in 2002/03 or something.
> 
> dave



goldberg went to WWE? I missed that.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 24, 2011)

he wasn't there long. 1 year i think. Feuds with rock, trips, jerico and lesner and that was about it.


----------



## elbows (Aug 24, 2011)

Termite Man said:


> yeah they are liked but I don't really see why apart from their actual wrestling. In fact I used to like Rey Mysetrio but he just annoys me now. Fucking 619 is getting old.



Rey was putting a load of effort into his matches recently, but now he has destroyed his knee again so you won't get a chance to be annoyed by him again until probably after Wrestlemania next year.


----------



## elbows (Aug 24, 2011)

kained&able said:


> he wasn't there long. 1 year i think. Feuds with rock, trips, jerico and lesner and that was about it.



It was a forgettable run, WWE don't have a good track record with people who made it huge in another company, they prefer their home-grown stars.

The only thing I really remember was his last match with Lesnar, which was a complete fiasco as the word got out that Lesnar was leaving too, so the New York crowd hated on both of them in a big way during the match.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 24, 2011)

kofi kingston needs to step up really. He improves a bit he could do the rey thing.

whats happening with sin cara(dont watch sd) is he a different person, fired or what?

a goldberg vs lesner match was going to be shit at the best of times and well that was a pretty shit time with no real buildup as i remember it.

dave


----------



## elbows (Aug 24, 2011)

I am sad to report that the warning signs that Matt Hardy was descending into madness, quite possibly drug induced, seem to have been all too valid.

The other day he got into a car crash, suspected of being under the influence of substances other than alcohol, and made the worrying internet post that I quoted the other day.

Well now he has apparently been hospitalised after 'falling down the stairs'.

And before that happened, he posted a video which showed his house looking rather messy, not utterly trashed to the maximum extent but not looking good, and he was talking shit about an entity having done this, and worrying about what would happen next. I didn't like the look of his cooker either.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 25, 2011)

with jeff returning this week that makes matt the fuck up of the family at the minute, which is umm quite bad really.

dave


----------



## elbows (Aug 25, 2011)

As for Sin Cara, they put someone else under the mask on Smackdown the other week, body shape and move set a bit different but not much evidence that the crowd noticed. Then the real Sin Cara returned at a house show as his 30-day suspension was up. Not sure how they will go forwards from here, there was some talk of a real vs fake Sin Cara programme.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh dear god no. That one has always been money. Fucking purple undertaker.

dave


----------



## bromley (Aug 25, 2011)

Underfaker!


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 25, 2011)

Just watched Halloween Havoc '96.

It really shows up how crap wrestling has got (except for the hulk hogan match at the end)


----------



## bromley (Aug 26, 2011)

The WCW undercard was fantastic during that era and the NWO angle was unmissable, compare it to the crap that WWF were serving up at the time (similar to what they've produced recently) and it's no wonder that WCW destroyed them in the ratings. Those were the days!


----------



## kained&able (Aug 26, 2011)

Oh come on be fair the dx stuff was kind of amusing.


----------



## bromley (Aug 26, 2011)

kained&able said:


> Oh come on be fair the dx stuff was kind of amusing.


That was about a year later.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 26, 2011)

ahh fair enough then.


----------



## bromley (Aug 26, 2011)

kained&able said:


> ahh fair enough then.


And it was extremely amusing!


----------



## elbows (Aug 27, 2011)

Some time ago when I was wailing about Flair living his gimmick, this is the sort of thing I was talking about, a long and sorry tale:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6891795/the-wrestler-real-lfe

Even worse than I had thought.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 29, 2011)

Am I right in assuming Kurt Angle is who the winner of Bound For glory is going to fight and that Crimson who happens to be winning bound for Glory series is now about to get into a feud with Angle. I wish wrestling stories weren't so predictable


----------



## elbows (Aug 29, 2011)

Perhaps not, I think they may have a different angle planned for Crimson, based on spoilers from tv tapings, but I am not going to spoil it by posting details here.

The latest on Sin Cara is that the situation remains messy. They had the original back for house shows, but were upset that his attitude hasn't changed (he acts like a star because he was one in Mexico, and they want him to be all humble). So they continued to use the other guy on the Smackdown tv taping. But apparently he made mistakes in his match and Vince sent him out several times to re-do the match. So Vince is pissed off with both of them, but the Sin Cara character makes them lots of money in merchandise sales. At this rate they will find a 3rd person to play the character!


----------



## bromley (Aug 30, 2011)

Knowing TNA I wouldn't put a  Crimson heel turn past them.

I don't get the Sin Cara situation. Why not just wait for his suspension to be complete and not bother with a replacement? Only in wrestling would they try this!


----------



## kained&able (Aug 30, 2011)

not sure what they are doing for the bound for glory thing. My money is on bobby roode or rob van dam though. but yeah its going to be kurt, he has the strap at the moment and i can't see that changing at no surrender.

Don't think it will be crimson, they have just done the kurt angle thing to keep his win streak intact. He really isn't ready for the main event but will prob feud with samoa joe for a bit.

dave


----------



## elbows (Aug 30, 2011)

The WWE brand separation between Raw and Smackdown seems to be fading, at last.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 30, 2011)

bout bloody time they haven't had the roster to do that for years.


----------



## elbows (Aug 30, 2011)

Yeah, but being WWE they haven't killed it completely, not yet anyway, they are just muddying the waters a bit by saying that Smackdown guys will now be on Raw every week (but don't yet know if Raw guys will be on Smackdown).

Oh goodie, something may have happened with Nash that means the PPV won't be tainted by a hideous Nash-CM Punk match, yay.


----------



## bromley (Aug 30, 2011)

The brand split could have worked if they actually put in some effort in to it and not have people on both shows. They also should have kept one world champion IMO. Part of me will miss it though.


----------



## elbows (Aug 30, 2011)

They only did it so that they could run 2 separate house-show tours, and now the Smackdown house show attendance levels are dropping to the point that panic sets in. And raw TV ratings are probably set to go below a 3 rating in the US once their football season starts, which will also likely make them freak.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 2, 2011)

raw was really really shit this week other then doplh vs orton.

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 2, 2011)

I watched Halloween havoc 98 last night. It's amazing how in just 2 years WCW went from being fucking good to crap (based on the very unscientific method of comparing 2 PPV's )


----------



## kained&able (Sep 2, 2011)

that does look like a well shit card.  was bret vs sting any good?

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 2, 2011)

kained&able said:


> that does look like a well shit card. was bret vs sting any good?
> 
> dave


Not really.

It's weird seeing the big show back when he was 'the giant'

and who thought Disco Inferno was ever a good idea


----------



## elbows (Sep 3, 2011)

I'm glad I missed the decline of WCW, it would have driven me bonkers. What a roller coaster ride, from 4 million viewers in 1995 to 12 million in 1998, to doom just a few years later. They made more money in 1997, over $50 million, than they had in all previous years combined. Mind you to be honest if it wasn't for the support of Turners TV network, it would have died before the glory years ever began.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 3, 2011)

the aj styles vs fallen angel match from impact this week is just plain wow.

dave


----------



## Termite Man (Sep 3, 2011)

kained&able said:


> the aj styles vs fallen angel match from impact this week is just plain wow.
> 
> dave


 
who the hell is fallen angel ?

I have downloaded the 2007 royal rumble ( watched last night ) and the 2011 which I may watch tonight. Any other decent ppv's I should get to watch. The older the better .


----------



## kained&able (Sep 3, 2011)

christopher danials

umm recent but final resoultion 2009 from tna fetures two of the best matches i have seen. in kurt angle vs demond wolfe & aj vs joe vs daniels.

ill be honest im shit at remembering dates so am no use for this kind of thing.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Sep 6, 2011)

how and why is shameus a face? the man is born to be a heel.

i await the inevitible hornswoggle pairing up with dread.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 6, 2011)

However I'm the bollocks at remembering dates!

98 is when they started to lose the ratings and panicked a bit. Instead of pushing new stars at Halloween Havoc you can see them bringing back the ultimate warrior and having The Outsiders face each other. The last decent PPV they did was Spring Stampeed '99 which I highly recommend.

Disco was a crap gimmick given to a decent wrestler. WWF would've given him a push and necessary gimmick change, no way would Bischoff had done the same.

After WCW & ECW went Christopher Daniels was the best indy wrestler in the world by quite a distance, strange that WWE didn't keep him after training him at the Funking Dojo, Steve Corino thought he was a shoe in and the second best wrestler there to a certain Kurt Angle.

Shameus is a face because he started to get a good face reaction from the fans, just a shame they never turn anyone heel who gets booed....


----------



## kained&able (Sep 6, 2011)

you mean mixed reaction? no one gets emotions boiling like john cena! ahem.

i still remember chris daniels wrestling jerry lynn on one of those shotgun saturday night short lived type shows. twas class. Loved him since then. One of my favourite wrestlers of all time. But he was never going to make it in wwe, didn't have the body. Pisses me off that he never got to the top of any promotion. How he wasn't given a stable and a raveny type gimmick i will always wonder.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 7, 2011)

I remember Daniels messing up a asai moonsault against Michael Morrison on Nitro and being the higher power to Vampiro, although he was never revealed! I also remember him winning the FWA heavyweight title in Walthamstow by pinning Jodie Fleish, Doug Williams was also in the match. One of my favs but has been outshone by AJ Styles for a while now, apparently (according to Mike Tennay's commentary) AJ and Daniels have named their first born after each other!


----------



## kained&able (Sep 7, 2011)

pretty sure aj's first kid was named aj. I will check his silly tattoo for confirmation. They are best mates though that is for sure.

Jodie fleisch was utter class, shame his knee let him down before he really made it in america(he was in that stupid rich kid drug taking faction with jay lethel, dixie, angel dust and whoever else could fly well but had no gimmick in roh)

dave


----------



## kained&able (Sep 9, 2011)

right watched raw last night and i'm officially done again. Even Cm punks promos are starting to grate me. He is awesome on the mic but its all so bloody predictable. Also the replay thing pisses me off so so much, 15 mins talking, commercials(not that i see those) 2mins summary of what just happened. FUCK OFF!

Out of interest though, is shane still employed by that jap tech company the whole nash/john linitus thingy is just begging to end with shane coming back and taking his fathers company back type coup thing.

Back to reading spoilers i think.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 10, 2011)

I fast forward a lot of Raw and Smackdown, I even fast forward the entire Cena promo and match! Punk's segment with HHH with shit, HHH even admitted that half of the fans don't like the show!


----------



## bromley (Sep 12, 2011)

Completed WCW '99, now on to WWF '98! The biggest difference is the quality of the wrestling, and direction the angles are moving in. The standard of wrestling in WWF is utter shit! Miles behind the fantastic action you get in WCW, I've probably fast forward 90% of the matches but watched the promos which are superb, unlike the we don't know what's going on WCW promo where the wrestlers cut a promo on everyone. Ignoring CM Punk, both shows are more entertaining than what's on today.


----------



## bromley (Sep 13, 2011)

At the end of Raw this week HHH cut the most strangest clusterfuck of a promo I've ever seen, well worth watching if you enjoy wrestlecrap.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 13, 2011)

tna ppv was nowt special kendrick vs aries march was by far the best match and worth a watch.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 16, 2011)

I recorded all 4 hours of it off of challenge TV, pretty shit so far although Kendrick V Aries was O.K.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 16, 2011)

main event isn't bad either and i have to say the final BFG series match was good as well.

Rest was cak, but i guess its building to bound for glory so a lot of the feuds aren't even simmering yet if started at all.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 18, 2011)

Challenge TV didn't show the main event, instead they showed an episode of gladiators.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 18, 2011)

magnus in the main event?


----------



## bromley (Sep 19, 2011)

kained&able said:


> magnus in the main event?


He was actually, the ref screwed him in _hang tough._


----------



## kained&able (Sep 19, 2011)

bloody earl hebner


----------



## El Sueno (Sep 19, 2011)

kained&able said:


> Jodie fleisch was utter class, shame his knee let him down before he really made it in america(he was in that stupid rich kid drug taking faction with jay lethel, dixie, angel dust and whoever else could fly well but had no gimmick in roh)
> 
> dave


Special K. They had their moments, pretty fun stuff.

Was gonna stay up to stream Night of Champions last night but hearing the reports I'm glad I didn't now. HHH/Punk was apparently a clutsterfuck-finish of monumental proportions.


----------



## bromley (Sep 19, 2011)

It's currently on Sky Sports 3, I completely forgot about it.


----------



## El Sueno (Sep 19, 2011)

I won't say any more for spoilers' sake but there was one result that was pretty cool... we'll discuss tomorrow!


----------



## bromley (Sep 19, 2011)

Aye, the last match!

Cena is on now, the crowd are chanting _You can't wrestle_ to him!  As I've said before, Vince, that's your biggest face.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 20, 2011)

will be watching it tonight.


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2011)

Sting v Flair was a bit sad to watch, Flair has unsurprisingly gone past the point of being able to work a great match.

After numerous serious problems, often involving problems with driving & the law, Matt Hardy is going to rehab, yay.

I aint watching much stuff at the moment because Im well unimpressed with the products on offer, but I hope to check out ROH as it returns to TV in the states imminently, and I think I heard the program will be available via the net.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 20, 2011)

yeah thats what im led to belive. be nice to see homicde and lethal again just a shame kings of wrestling are wwe bound.
Poor claudio, alberto del rio has his gimmick in wwe.

and yeah flair vs sting was more then a bit pongy, really hope sting retires from in ring stuff very very soon. He is done. Flair wont retire until he has a heart attack in the ring and dies but he has no place in tna. Far to many people who just talk at the minute.

do you think roode has what it takes to main event yet?

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 20, 2011)

kained&able said:


> do you think roode has what it takes to main event yet?


A big yes from me, I also think Bully Rey does as well. Roode can also carry the title, which Bully couldn't and I would prefer to see him hold it then Mr Anderson or Sting.

I can't believe Sting and Flair are facing each other, I also can't remember any of the match despite watching it last week! They had a cracking match at Starcade.....'89. So many similarities with WCW, old talent from WWE main eventing at the expense of the young stars, hopefully Roode will win the title, he deserve it.


----------



## El Sueno (Sep 20, 2011)

bromley said:


> Aye, the last match!
> 
> Cena is on now, the crowd are chanting _You can't wrestle_ to him!  As I've said before, Vince, that's your biggest face.



I was thinking more of Henry getting a clean pin over Orton, wtf! I guess it's only for Orton to win it back at HIAC though...


----------



## kained&able (Sep 20, 2011)

no bromley its sting vs hogan with possibly sum1 else being added into the mix. Possibly styles although i reckon they will do the rubber match between him and daniels, so umm sum1 that really really shouldnt be called jeff jarett.

dave


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2011)

kained&able said:


> and yeah flair vs sting was more then a bit pongy, really hope sting retires from in ring stuff very very soon. He is done. Flair wont retire until he has a heart attack in the ring and dies but he has no place in tna. Far to many people who just talk at the minute.
> 
> do you think roode has what it takes to main event yet?
> 
> dave



Sting is noticeably worse than when he first came to TNA, but it was Flairs deterioration that I found most painful to watch. The match was heavily edited so god knows what horrors we missed, and it didn't help that Flair injured himself about 3/4 of the way through. Flair will never be able to afford to retire but he is fast running out of companies that will pay him good money, so I don't know what will happen to him ultimately.

Hogan & Bischoffs contacts are up soon, maybe October, so hopefully they won't be renewed and we can get rid of the 'stuck in the past' crew, well apart from writer Vince Russo who seems untouchable even though they should have gotten rid of him years ago. The writing for the women is a disgrace, nothing but talk about bitches & sluts and sleeping with the boss.

Hogan & Bischoff were not quite as toxic to TNA as I predicted, but they sure didn't add much and they cost a fortune, a total waste of money. TNA is in a difficult place now, they have lost a lot of hope about growing since everything they tried has failed to make a difference. They have actually managed to book some of the upper-mid level talent quite well this year, so yeah I think Roode is ready. Problem is that TNA have not been good with the main eventers, getting the old-timers out of the way should help but TNA also have problems with their live audience, their idiocy over the years has trained the impact zone audience to not care. Top stars in TNA are not seen as superstars in the wider world, nor are they comparable to top stars of different territories back in the day, which WWE would then bring in straight to the main event level. And when they tape a show at another arena to get away from the Impact zone, it costs a load of money, which Spike TV are paying but they want to see ratings improvements as a result, and thats a bit of a tall order. All in all I think there is some real concern that TNA might not survive.


----------



## kained&able (Sep 20, 2011)

if spike stay behind them they will survive 2nd they pull any funding then they are somewhat fucked.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 20, 2011)

El Sueno said:


> I was thinking more of Henry getting a clean pin over Orton, wtf! I guess it's only for Orton to win it back at HIAC though...


You mean the match before the Cena one? 

I though saying the match before would prevent any spoilers and alert people watching the ppv which match i meant after they saw it.

Henry deserved that big time, even if he does drop it at the next ppv which is a whopping 2 weeks away.


----------



## El Sueno (Sep 20, 2011)

Yeah 15 years with the promotion and some horrid gimmicks along the way. But still makes me laugh how he's referred to as the World's Strongest Man when he never even won it! And the Worlds Strongest Slam is possibly the World's Gayest Finsher too. But good luck to him, was really pleased to see him get a clean pin against a top star. Hope they do the same for guys like Punk and Daniel Bryan in their respective matches when WM rolls around, Bryan jobbing to mid-carders is beginning to spook me - although it does seem the trend for MITB winners to go through a patch like that.


----------



## elbows (Sep 21, 2011)

'Gayest' as an insult in 2011? Really? Really? What? What? What? What? What?


----------



## kained&able (Sep 21, 2011)

i quite like worlds strongest slam. looks powerful when he does it. much better then say a jack knife power bomb or whatver the thing zak ryder uses is called.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 21, 2011)

They created a strong man tournament circa 2000, got Schwarzenegger involved to add legitimacy, added a load of bums and claimed he was still the world's strongest man. He then had backstage segments were he would complete strength tests, like pen a frying pan and lift a car, didn't get him any where mind and I remember Angle berating Henry's performance at the '96 Olympics. In Foley's book he hinted that they had big things for Henry but the fans went mad for Austin so the company changed it's ideas, if only if it would do the same in this day and age!

Worst finisher is surely Wade Barrett's? I agree that Henry should have something better for the supposably strongest man in the world!


----------



## kained&able (Sep 21, 2011)

or god yeah wasteland looks weak, shouldn't even be a two count!  I miss petey williams' ridiculous finisher.



Didn't mark henry finish last in the olympics.

dave


----------



## bromley (Sep 21, 2011)

Pete Williams has a mid-card finisher, it can only be done on certain guys. Sweat Chin Music and the Diamond Cutter are amongst the best.


----------



## El Sueno (Sep 22, 2011)

elbows said:


> 'Gayest' as an insult in 2011? Really? Really? What? What? What? What? What?



I'm still living in the Attitude era


----------



## elbows (Sep 22, 2011)

Oh no, TNA are going to do Hogan vs Sting after all. Its going to make the Flair match look real good in comparison. Speaking of which, Flair tore his left triceps during that match and will be having surgery.

As for Matt Hardy, turns out he is actually going to rehab because he got busted with prescription medication that he had no prescription for, steroids, ecstasy and a currently unidentified white powder. Hope the rehab works because he was rapidly heading towards death with his conduct in recent months.


----------



## bromley (Sep 22, 2011)

You could tell by the way he landed on his knee during the flair flop that something bad had happened. He shouldn't be allowed to wrestle anymore, speaking of which, is Funk still going?


----------



## elbows (Sep 23, 2011)

I think it was the top rope superplex spot (or whatever its called, Im not great with the names of some moves) that injured him.

Funk is still going, although very intermittently and more often special ref, enforcer, or limited role in battle royal or tag team matches.

Lawler was injured on RAW by the Mark Henry table spot, because someone forgot to gimmick the table


----------



## kained&able (Sep 23, 2011)

top rope/sky high superplex = both men on top rope  superplex = opponent on top rope, suplexer on 2nd.

dave


----------



## elbows (Sep 25, 2011)

I've avoided NXT for years but I thought I would check it out to see what the hell is going on with this season which appears to have been running for more than 30 weeks. Well the show still seems horrid apart from one thing, William Regal on commentary, its a beautiful thing.


----------



## bromley (Sep 26, 2011)

Last week was week 29. I watch it and it's just weird. It's almost like it's own brand now with lower mid-carders like Tyson Kid getting the chance to have a kick ass match and a feud against Yuji. It appears that they've given up with the elimination and a lot of eliminated stars have returned. The winner of the show gets a spot on the next series, would be funny if they got eliminated in the first week! Overall it's one giant mess of a show.


----------



## Bakunin (Sep 29, 2011)

El Sueno said:


> I'm still living in the Attitude era


----------



## kained&able (Oct 2, 2011)

is tyler black or umm seth rollins or wahtever they are calling him on nxt yet?


----------



## bromley (Oct 3, 2011)

NXT is now WWE's way of pushing the tag team division which is now, the _strongest it's been for years._  You do get Tyson Kid and Yoshi Tatsu having kiss arse matches as well.

Is Hell in a Cell worth watching?


----------



## bromley (Oct 3, 2011)

Cody Rhodes has brought back the classic white IC title! 

Now please get the old WWE title back.


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2011)

I keep hearing that TNA booking has been much better of late, have finally found out why. Bruce Pritchard is now head of creative and sets the direction the angles will go in. Vince Russo is still writer, but I guess we are now saved from his worst excesses and inability to do consistent story lines that actually make people want to see fights. So hooray, I will actually try watching this show again now.

Unfortunately Hogan has signed another deal with TNA, what a waste of money.

HHH has always tended to kill my interest in WWE, so I haven't been watching it recently, although I must watch the Haloween Raw as the Muppets are special guests!

Saw the first new ROH tv show, looks like they are doing a pretty slow reintroduction to the product and the production levels still need some work, but it has some promise.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 7, 2011)

yeah watched the 2nd one last night with lethal/ el generico.

production values are still low but product is good. Just a pity its only an hour isn't enought time to get into it.

Good to see shelton/haas with the strap, really hope they get a tna deal before too long god knows the tag division needs em.

tna booking isnt bad, just too much talking at the minute as flair/sting/hogan/bicshoff/karen angle cant really do anything but.

dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2011)

TNA booking not bad in recent months, but as you know I firmly believe the booking there was utter shit for many recent years. The hideous decline in their pay-per-veiw business reflects this pretty well, along with a complete failure to make new stars over a multi-year period. In their earlier years they made a few stars, and thankfully there are signs that they can do so again, but for years I had no hope at all, as reflected in my posts here.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 7, 2011)

roode and morgan look ready to step up main event level.

dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2011)

Roode yeah because the team got over through a lot of hard work, and now that someone who has a clue is setting the direction of the show they actually booked him properly in recent months.

Morgan no, unless I've missed something recently? People sometimes see potential in him but he rarely shows signs of really having what it takes, he has the size but not the skills. He sometimes shows potential on the mic, but other times seems somewhat lost or awkward. If I was running the show Id give him one more chance and if he still doesn't run with the ball then Id give up.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 8, 2011)

i find him intelligent and engaging on the mic and yeah he may lack a certain ammount of skill mat wise but he has the basic down, especilly since he got rid of his silly finisher and stopped doing the stupid hellivator finisher.

I think he would be a credible champion.

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 9, 2011)

I like Morgan, definitely someone the WWE would be after. Still far too much talking on TNA, especially as each show features two stars doing a video package on how they got in to TNA.

I fast forward a lot of WWE. After the awful HHH/Punk promo they've stopped Punk's shoot promos. The HHH COO storyline is dull. Back to the way things were I guess. *sigh.*


----------



## elbows (Oct 9, 2011)

WWE had Morgan already, two stints in developmental and on Smackdown. He got decent pushes in developmental but was used quite badly on the main roster, including being saddled with a stuttering gimmick  And he has been in TNA since 2007 without really catching on. This is why Id probably only give him one more chance to make it before finally giving up. If he wasn't so tall I think he would have been given up on years ago.


----------



## bromley (Oct 9, 2011)

I think he's gotten over with the TNA fans big time. His size is a big advantage to him and his style would be completely different if he wasn't built that way. You can't fill the roster with average size wrestlers. I think someone said WWE approached him and he turned them down to show loyalty to TNA and to thank them for pushing him, I do think he would be pushed in WWE before anyone gets cynical!

I think Hernandez is the best big man at the moment. I would like to see him really get over with LAX and improve on his mic skills before going single.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 9, 2011)

mexican america these days not LAX.

Hernandez is a weird one. his offence is awesome but his mic wotk is srill woeful which means he will never be a main eventer unless he has a mouth piece, I actually wouldnt be shocked to see him gone from tna soon.

and yeah morgan is very much over.

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 11, 2011)

My skimming thorough of '98 Raw continued last night. The Raw after Wrestlemania 14 was something else, Austin picking up the new built and stunning McMahon for the first time. The Rock throwing Farooq out of The Nation and becoming the ruler. HHH becoming the leader of DX and X-Pac shooting on Hogan and Bischoff and The New Age Outlaws joining DX. Almost the perfect show, no wonder they run the ratings war.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 11, 2011)

Ohh yeah... i just about remember that one. Farooq got his arse handed to him in the parking lot didn't he. Brutal.

might have to find all the old mid 90's raws/nitros, although imtemted to do the original tna weekly ppv's first.

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 11, 2011)

It was in the ring. The Rock and Farooq were close to falling out and it was built up well for weeks before the rest of the nation turned on them.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 11, 2011)

ohh? i distinctly remember a mass nation of domination riot out in a car park. Maybe that was the rock getting chucked out or something.

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 12, 2011)

It's well worth re-watching the classic stuff, Most WWF matches I skip thorough and watch the storylines, WCW is the opposite!


----------



## kained&able (Oct 18, 2011)

im three quarters through bound for glory now! Ummm its pretty good. Its in philly so most of the matches have a hardcore lean to em.

kendrick vs austin aries is quite frankly amazing. Both of em just go so hard. Its also about the only non gimmick match on the card.

knockouts match is umm quite old skool really, karen jarrett is guest ref and does a terrible job, but lots of no counts and stuff like that, entertaining enough i guess, but im sure those 4 could put a better match on.

Joe vs crimson vs morgan umm joe does some good stuff but overall pretty tame. Fued hasn't really got far on this one yet though, ending is shit.

mr anderson anderson vs bubba ray. Great match. Anderson always surprises me with the bumps he is prepared to take even though he has done this style of match loads!

aj styles vs daniels. I really dislike i quit matches and this has done little to change my mind. This fued is far from over though so im expecting a couple of much better matches.

Just sting vs hogan and roode vs angle to watch now, i have high hopes for the championship match but am really hoping this is the last time i see hogan or sting in the ring ever again.

Also i have to say the booking of robert roode in the last few months has been nothing short of amazing. Bruce pritchard has done good.

In other TNA news david laguna the producer/writer from ROH has just signed up. Hoping he will be given the x-division to play with.

dave


----------



## kained&able (Oct 19, 2011)

well both of the last matches were class for very different reasons! sting and hogan had the audiences(who were great the entire night) eating out of thiee  palm.

and roode vs angle was straight up an amazing match. Never knew roode was that good on the mat quite frankly.

dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2011)

Angle was injured and should not have been competing, so the match fell below expectations. As for the finish, which saw the wrong person win, apparently we can blame Hogan for that. He is still scum that holds down others, very sad that he can still get away with this in 2011.

And don't even get me started on WWE, which has made a nonsense of itself on Raw in recent weeks. McMahon was a great promoter back in the day but those days are long gone.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 19, 2011)

see the dirt sheets have been saying hoagn lobied. The man is in control! He doesn't lobby he discusses and his word carries clout.



Spoiler



I think i have worked out what they are doing with the whole roode/dixie/hogan/angle type thing and it should work. Angle is going to be given 6months off in the next month or two so he might as well keep the title till then really. Face chasing heel is always better in my opinion. Also by keeping the title on kurt means bischoff/immortal has some stroke left in the company and doesnt have to be disbanded.

I have no problems with it as long as he gets made by the end of the year.



dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 19, 2011)

How have WWE turned the Punk shoot thing in to total crap?  If the attitude era was described as car crash TV then this shit must be the wreckage.

I think most normal people like to see a face chase a heel, which is why WWE have Cena being an unbeatable super human. Thanks to the invention of fast forward I can get through Raw in under 30 minutes.


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2011)

Face chasing heel is all well and good, but sometimes the timing is crucial. At these times the face failing to win permanently spoils their momentum, and they never reach the heights they may otherwise have achieved. The classic example is probably Lex Luger, when he failed to beat Yokozuna many fans gave up on him.

TNA may not have blown it totally yet, for all I know they may do the switch on TV because hardly anybody buys their pay-per-views, but Im not convinced, especially with Hogans dodgy politics behind the scenes.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 19, 2011)

with angle going for a while their basic choices are roode, morgan or jeff hardy and roode is clearly the best choice for the moment.

dave


----------



## elbows (Oct 19, 2011)

Which means being TNA they will probably give it to Hardy again, only for him to mess up at some point by being 'in no condition to compete'. Hope to be wrong.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 19, 2011)

dunno the writing has been pretty much spot on for the last couple of months.


----------



## elbows (Oct 21, 2011)

Apparently they did something at the tv taping that may actually make sense, but I won't give spoilers yet.


----------



## bromley (Oct 24, 2011)

I don't think Angle's win was a bad thing, he had to cheat to win which gives a big rub to Roode and allows the feud to continue.


----------



## kained&able (Oct 25, 2011)

so is vengence worth a watch? had a scan through the results and nothing i got overly excited about.

also how are trips and cmpunk allies now? I missed it and want to laugh.

dave


----------



## bromley (Oct 26, 2011)

Vengence was average. The main event was good because it was conducted in a broken ring!

The Hogan face turn....


----------



## bromley (Nov 7, 2011)

Just bumping this to point out that Cody Rhodes must be the most improved wrestler of 2011, his mic skills are now at a upper mid-card level and bordering main event.

James Harris as the champ? What's your take on that? Surely he's just a transitional champion with Robert Roode the more long term option.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 7, 2011)

james harris lol? and chris storm.



Spoiler



Roode is champ now after breaking a bottle over storm and turning heel.



Has codys wrestling improved much. Always found him to be rather limited.

dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 7, 2011)

You knew who I meant, no need for the spoiler though!


----------



## kained&able (Nov 7, 2011)

it isnt a spoiler. happend on saturdays episode(thurs in states)

dave


----------



## elbows (Nov 7, 2011)

They've rushed through 6 months of story lines i a few weeks 

And WWE has gone completely down the toilet, even the muppets were no good


----------



## kained&able (Nov 7, 2011)

they had too beacuse of the angle injury really


----------



## elbows (Nov 7, 2011)

There was still no need for them to rush all of it though, they could have put the title on one on them without rushing the subsequent heel turn & feud.


----------



## bromley (Nov 7, 2011)

kained&able said:


> it isnt a spoiler. happend on saturdays Tuesday. episode(thurs in states)
> 
> dave




The muppets were the guys in the ring.


----------



## bromley (Nov 10, 2011)

kained&able said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Roode is champ now after breaking a bottle over storm and turning heel.


Saw this last night, awful. Very 90s style booking.


----------



## El Sueno (Nov 13, 2011)

Whenever I despair of pro wrestling on the telly I stick this on and remember it's still fun in the indies.


----------



## bromley (Nov 15, 2011)

I feel sorry for those who went to the Liverpool Raw show, which was headlined by Cena & Zach Ryder V Miz & R-Truth (oh dear). Nothing happened at that show as everything was built for last night's 3hour super show and the return of The Rock. Why advertise a show for months then do nothing on it? There were also quite a few other surprises on the show, unlike in Liverpool.


----------



## bromley (Nov 16, 2011)

From Smashing Pumpkins to Wrestling.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 16, 2011)

doesnt suprise me. he has given at least a couple of songs to tna in the past.

dave


----------



## El Sueno (Nov 18, 2011)

Anyone see Raw on Monday? Three long, long hours. But the Rockbottom on Foley was pretty funny.


----------



## bromley (Nov 21, 2011)

El Sueno said:


> Anyone see Raw on Monday? Three long, long hours. But the Rockbottom on Foley was pretty funny.


I saw it, it was a fun show with a lot of returns and surprises, the Rock Bottom on Foley was very _WCW_ though. It was a complete contrast to the show they did in Liverpool where nothing happened. John Laurinaitis even told the crowd that Brodus Clay was too good to début in England! If you're going to tour at least put on a show for the fans, no one cares if Kelly Kelly is on the cover of some magazine!

TNA's heel/face turns, which were common place ten years ago are very annoying.


----------



## El Sueno (Nov 21, 2011)

Whenever WWE come to England they rarely do proper continuations of storylines, it's as if they think we've never watched the show before.

Survivor Series was alright. Won't spoil anything but if you don't aim too far out of the box you'll probably guess every finish.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 21, 2011)

i predict that the rock, rock bottoms cena after cena beats miz/truth with an FU.

dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 22, 2011)

Zach Ryder is more over than Cena.


----------



## kained&able (Nov 22, 2011)

that doesn't surprise me at all! Man needs a new finisher though. That rough ryder is rubbish. A leg lariat should never be a 3-count!!!

dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 23, 2011)

Who was the last person the WWE turned heel, other than Nash? R-Truth?


----------



## kained&able (Nov 23, 2011)

yeah truth certainly. before that your probabley looking at tyson kid or something.

other then divas anyway.

dave


----------



## bromley (Nov 23, 2011)

They do seem some what afraid to turn people heel these days, perhaps due to the lack of merchandise sales? Rock turning heel benefited him greatly and would've done wonders for Cena. He's not controversial, he's just dull.


----------



## El Sueno (Nov 24, 2011)

Truth's sitting out a 30 day suspension, following in the footsteps of Evan Bourne, for the crime of smokin' a hoojay...

I've been racking my brains trying to figure out how they can successfully turn Cena heel, only to realise they don't need to - just him being an uber-face is enough to get the entire crowd booing.

btw, shocking episode of Raw on Monday - at least half the matches were decent. And I mean, very good - Punk -vs- Diggler had stars all over it.


----------



## bromley (Dec 19, 2011)

http://bryandanielson.net/2011/12/its-strange/


----------



## kained&able (Dec 20, 2011)

gotta love american dragon!


----------



## Termite Man (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm disappointed in you lot, I use this thread to keep up with the wrestling world and you haven't been posting. Shame On You.


----------



## bromley (Dec 21, 2011)

It's been crappier than usual recently, sorry! Kane has a new mask btw, looks good!

Here's a question for you, is Booker T one of the best Wrestlers of the 00s?


----------



## kained&able (Dec 24, 2011)

was never a massive booker t fan to be honest. and theres certianly a lot of better people around then him, Angle, jericho & RVD for a start.

dave


----------



## bromley (Dec 27, 2011)

I would say Booker was as over as most of those three. No one has ever deserved the main (wcw) title more than him, trully emotional scenes when he finally did it at Bash of The Beach 2000 after a career of getting the biggest crowd reaction but never being pushed above the mid card.


----------



## Termite Man (Jan 5, 2012)

with the PPV what happens with the money ? I assume sky have done some deal with WWE where they sort out some kind of deal where sky get a% and WWE get b% of the PPV money or do they do it differently?


----------



## kained&able (Jan 5, 2012)

that is how it works in the states so presume sky have a similar deal.

now hands up who was shocked by raw on monday. No one. No didn't think so.


----------



## elbows (Jan 5, 2012)

Spoiler


----------



## bromley (Jan 6, 2012)

elbows said:


> Spoiler



I thought you meant, 



Spoiler



Zigler's WWE title win, which I checked on here to see if it was legit.


----------



## elbows (Jan 11, 2012)

Im still not enjoying wrestling much these days but there is certainly no lack of silly imagery on Raw to keep me mildly entertained.



Spoiler


----------



## kained&able (Jan 12, 2012)

watched the clay match to see how bad the intro really was. it was really bad.

On the plus side im 3/4 of the way through tna genesis and its been pretty good thus far.

dave


----------



## bromley (Jan 13, 2012)

Promo of the year 2011. This man is a serious talent.


----------



## bromley (Jan 28, 2012)

Hogan turned down the chance to join Metallica, apparently.


----------



## METH LAB (Jan 28, 2012)

i used to fuckin LOVE the wwf/wwe cant get it on fuckin freeview 

Is it still all fake? somebody told me there's less decided outcomes or something... like they dont always plan the match winner but they talk to eachother kinda whilst they at it is to which way the show is gonna go? i duno.

i tought it was real first time i saw it which was hulk hogan and ultimate warrior days.. warrior was my fave, apparantly he a prick in real life with some weird head issues? hogan went to wwe as holywood hulk hogan and made himself look stupid..then did some japanese stuff and now does that bull shit programme with his plastic daughter am i right?

I saw the first ever UK tour it was UK rampage and i went to the wembley arena one... was fuckin great fun tbh..mr.pefect had the crowed in the palm of his hand that night like.. they are good at what they do.

I think i first picked up on it at 13 - 14 years old and the earthquake had put hogan in hospital and there was a huge load of hype about that and hogan won the rematch obviously all bull shit but since then they have stepped up the violance and language abit.. instead of being just for kids like it used to be (sort of)

peace


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2012)

Its still fake. The talking to each other in the ring stuff refers to many matches not being 100% planned move for move before time, but the finish is always planned in advance. The only time the finish will be improvised is if something goes wrong during the match, e.g. if one of the participants gets genuinely injured and can't do the finish in the planned way. Or if there is some trouble backstage with someone refusing to lose, and then getting double-crossed during the match. This is pretty rare but Bret Hart getting screwed at Summerslam is the classic famous example of this.

Warrior is a mad prick in real life, although recently he has actually been making some sense. Hogan also a bit of a dick in real life, although it was WCW he went to as Hollywood Hulk Hogan, and the reality tv programme with his daughter was some years ago now. Since then he had a messy and expensive divorce, and there was a problem with Hogams son years ago where the son crashed an expensive car whilst street racing and caused his friend to become a vegetable. Hogan is far too physically crippled to wrestle a match properly these days but he is still working because he really needs money after the aforementioned events in his life.

Yes I remember the UK Rampage tours, there were several in the early 90's. I went to a couple in Birmingham and also the Summerslam that they had at Wembley. By the time I saw these I was already going off wrestling though.

Yeah they did hype up the 'Hogan inured by earthquake' angle pretty big at the time. Here is the injury angle in all its cheesy glory : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqYm3wudFgU

And yeah, by the late 90's it was the 'attitude era' which featured more adult content, swearing etc. By the mid 2000's WWE had started to move away from this and returned to a more PG product, which in theory it still is today although more innuendo is starting to appear in the product again recently.


----------



## bromley (Jan 28, 2012)

It isn't fake anymore. They know fight in an octagonal shaped cage and UFC are the biggest company.


----------



## kained&able (Jan 30, 2012)

TNA ran thier first ever impact in foreign the other day at the Loondon 02! It will be on the tele next week(i think).

Big step for them, unfortunately they had to cancel a load of german house shows due to lack of sales as part of the same tour though.

The current Eric young angle is really really pissing me off, he is in the ring with the girls but isn't wrestling them so its just 4mins of comedy 1 min of ODB wrestling. I presume they are pushing ODB for a knockout championship run. She is certainly over enough, but i just end up pitying eric. He is clearly a very good wrestler but hasn't been able to show it in 6 years now!

On the other hand almost everything else is working for me. The hardy/storm roode/bully ray stuff has been class and has been running a while, i'm already looking forward to lockdown!

dave


----------



## bromley (Feb 1, 2012)

Eric is a very good wrestler but a comic genius. They should keep the comedy but let him showcase what he can do in the ring. If I was Vince he would be someone I would be eyeing up.


----------



## kained&able (Feb 1, 2012)

colt cabana is who he really should be.


----------



## joustmaster (Feb 4, 2012)

anyone remember the web site that has rubbish wrestling clips. mostly wwf if I remember corectly. 

stuff when they mess up.


----------



## bromley (Feb 8, 2012)

joustmaster said:


> anyone remember the web site that has rubbish wrestling clips. mostly wwf if I remember corectly.
> 
> stuff when they mess up.


Search botchomania on youtube. God damn it Jeff!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 18, 2012)

Ok, that HHH/HBK promo was pretty good.

Until Undertaker started cutting his own hair...


----------



## bromley (Feb 21, 2012)

What a horrible PPV, although Punk V Jericho will be good!


----------



## El Sueno (Apr 2, 2012)

WM28's off to a good start. They just jettisoned a potentially great match just to fuck the internet fans over. Well done WWE, you got us. That'll teach us to get behind an indy talent. Fucking disgraceful, if I'd bought a ticket to a world title match I'd want my money back!


----------



## bromley (Apr 2, 2012)

Agreed, but I doubt it was to do with the internet fans though, they'll be some crappy storyline with his girlfriend, Elizabeth or whatever she's called.

Overall pretty poor, apart from the Hell in a Cell which was incredible of the Punk V Jericho match was decent as expected on 21st Feb. I'm please with how the show ended! Two poor 'manias in a row in my book. The build up was awful about from the main even which overshadowed the rest of the card. You can see from the posts above that there was little interest in this.


----------



## elbows (Apr 3, 2012)

The first hour sucked but I enjoyed the rest of the show. Mike Tyson on the Hall of Fame show was a billion times better than the dodgy comedy on the show though, and the messages from sponsors wound me up. I can't really comment on the build as I don't watch regularly anymore. Although I think I will check out Raw this week as there is a big return.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2012)

Ha ha, the crowd mercilessly and repeatedly got their revenge on Raw.


----------



## bromley (Apr 4, 2012)

A very big return! Sheamus got cut off because of the cheers Bryan received.



Spoiler






Yes! Yes! Yes!


----------



## bromley (May 2, 2012)

Jesus, watch Extreme Rules!


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 26, 2012)

Damien Sandow is quite fun 

Never realised how good Big Show is on the mic, he does seem to be a cut above your average.


----------



## bromley (May 28, 2012)

He's improved immensely over the last ten years.

There's loads of new wrestlers on winning streaks at the moment. I'm pretty sure Brotus Clay is still undefeated!

Personally I'm a bit fan of Lord Tensai.


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 31, 2012)

Raw 1000th episode passed without a blip on this thread, anyone catch it? Just streaming 1001 now and the new 3 hour format is gonna be hard to maintain although they've oddly not made any mention of it this week. TNA is in better shape than I can remember (well until Brooke got a job and now the Knockouts are leaving in droves) and WWE is enjoying a bit of nostalgia as it gets caught up in celebrating itself. Everyone seems to be performing like it means something again, which can't be bad. Or maybe they've all just upped their game for the big occasion.


----------



## elbows (Jul 31, 2012)

I cant be watching 3 hour shows every week, I dont care enough about the product. Which is a shame as several of the WWE performers are entertaining at the moment, especially Daniel Bryan. 

Im not watching TNA every week either but it is a shitload better than it was, justifying my rants about Russo in this thread in the past, very happy he is gone and his replacements know what they are doing most of the time. I have avoided all segments with Brooke Hogan but I dont think some women have been leaving TNA because of her, its as much about money as anything, with TNA being stingy when renegotiating contracts that come up for renewal in an attempt to save costs.


----------



## Corax (Jul 31, 2012)

Just spotted this thread and wanted to annoyingly point out that it's all pretend.

Thanks.  I'll go now.


----------



## elbows (Jul 31, 2012)

In a way that makes it more pure, they dont have to pretend not to be fixed unlike certain corrupt sports


----------



## El Sueno (Aug 1, 2012)

3 hours is PPV length, so yeh no matter how funny Bryan's being at the moment, nor how slowly/cleverly Punk turns heel or tweens about for in the meantime, I haven't got the patience to sit through 3 hours. You're right elbows, the product just doesn't justify that much of my time every week. Especially seeing as the past couple of weeks' Raws have just been 2 hour shows padded out with a ridiculous amount of recaps and those now familiar, endless bollocks 'stats' the WWE like to pull out of their hat. But it's a shame timing-wise, because they're doing a lot more right than they were this time last year as they struggled to contain and then build upon Punk's 'pipe bomb'.


----------



## bromley (Aug 15, 2012)

Could someone PM me a decent wrestling torrent site. Mine has been down for ages.


----------



## El Sueno (Aug 21, 2012)

Anyone watch SummerSlam? My local put it on live, £5 a ticket with proceeds going to Great Ormond Street - free hot dogs, snacks/dips plus a steady stream of cold beers certainly made the time pass a lot easier than it would have otherwise.


----------



## bromley (Aug 23, 2012)

El Sueno said:


> Anyone watch SummerSlam? My local put it on live, £5 a ticket with proceeds going to Great Ormond Street - free hot dogs, snacks/dips plus a steady stream of cold beers certainly made the time pass a lot easier than it would have otherwise.


Where's your local?! I didn't see it.


----------



## El Sueno (Aug 24, 2012)

bromley said:


> Where's your local?! I didn't see it.


 
Green Dragon in Croydon. The bar staff/regulars are a bunch of metallers and wrestling fans, the manager is a really cool chick who just likes a good party (she used to let me put on raves in the upstairs room). She said she'll do the big four if you fancy Survivor Series in a few months. And we raised £105 for Great Ormond Street too!


----------



## El Sueno (Jan 13, 2013)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 6, 2013)

Not strictly a wrestler, but former WWF manager Paul Bearer has died. I'm shocked he was 58 - he looked that old back in the early '90s.

source: The Scum


----------



## elbows (Mar 6, 2013)

I wouldnt say that, he was obese and covered in makeup rather than looking that old back then.

His gimmick was rather appropriate as he actually worked as a mortician in real life too.

Rather embarrassingly I saw the Undertaker in a nightclub in Birmingham UK once (they were on a UK tour and it was a rock nightclub) and the only thing that popped into my head to ask him was 'does Paul Bearer's voice get on your nerves?' 

RIP.


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 12, 2013)

This is great, Percy Pringle and Jim Cornette reminisce. From 8:00 Percy reveals The Undertakers greatest fear!


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 26, 2013)

Great Bryan-v-Cesaro match on Raw last Monday. #europeanuppercuts #roh


----------



## El Sueno (Oct 26, 2013)

Colt Cabana's wrestling tonight at Wallington town hall, if anyone fancies a night at the indies
http://www.fpwuk.com/shop-tickets/buy-tickets/


----------



## bromley (Oct 27, 2013)

Good lord both company's main events have been poor over the last couple of months.


----------



## El Sueno (Oct 28, 2013)

bromley said:


> Good lord both company's main events have been poor over the last couple of months.



WWE's been on a steady downhill slide since Summerslam but the last couple have been even more meaningless than usual. The Shield had the best match of the night, and that was the fucking opener - then Cena Wins LOL and everyone saw the main event 'swerve' coming from three weeks ago. And TNA's BFG was a joke, even with the best intentions in the world they must've been embarrassed with that - Isn't it supposed to be their biggest show of the year? Instead of all their feuds and storylines culminating in a huge payoff it was just some scrappy last-minute affair.

The indies are still fun though.


----------



## bromley (Oct 29, 2013)

They always are!

I love Bully as a champ but the way they've treated aces and eights has been a joke, they had something there but blew it. AJ and Dixie are both too poor on the mic for their storyline which is also very confusing. They've also failed to push beer money in to legit main eventers haven't missed up with both of them, even though Roode had a year run with the title!

The McMahon storyline was dull in the 2000s and the WHC has become meaningless due to the lack of attention it's received. The number of bullshit PPV finishes has been a joke and I can't think of a worse PPV that I've ever seen than Battleground, although I didn't see December to Dismember but have seen a hell of a lot of WCW PPVs.

The business has been poor since the invasion angle with the occasional glimpses of something promising but this must be the worst time ever! I must fast forward the majority of the shows, including the PPVs. To have a talent like Cersaro and put him in a pro American tag team, Jesus wept!!


----------



## El Sueno (Oct 29, 2013)

bromley said:


> The business has been poor since the invasion angle with the occasional glimpses of something promising but this must be the worst time ever! I must fast forward the majority of the shows, including the PPVs. To have a talent like Cersaro and put him in a pro American tag team, Jesus wept!!



True, there was a brief moment in summer 2011 with Punk's 'pipe bomb' and again this summer when it looked like they were getting behind Bryan but we should know better than to expect WWE to deliver on a wholesale change of main event stars. I only watch in the hope that the Shield guys, Ziggler and Cesaro will break out sometime soon but they'll never get a push bigger than Punk or Bryan and certainly not on the same level as C*ena. Who incidentally successfully defended the world title against Sandow's MITB cash-in last night despite having a botched arm, cementing Sandow's return to mid-card at best.As for TNA I rarely watch it anymore, after the way they handled the Beer Money split and the debacle that Aces & Eights turned into, not to mention the layoffs and budget cuts, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they weren't in business by this time next year. It's a shame because ten years ago they brought us bonafide dream indy match pairings and now they're reduced to hot-shotting guys like Chris Sabin while talent like Samoa Joe languishes without a meaningful feud to his name since Angle all those years ago.

But there's a heap of PWG and Chikara dvds out there which I haven't seen yet so I'll be fine.


----------



## bromley (Oct 30, 2013)

That pipe bomb was fantastic and if you look back on it a lot of what he said was used in future storylines, they messed up by bringing him back so soon though. The best pipe bomb was Heyman's one during the invasion angle, makes you think what could have been if he was leading the company and not Stephanie McMahon! FFS!!! 

The shield are good, as are the Uso brothers, they have an opportunity to build a very good tag division, which is something TNA had a year ago or so then messed up! There is some great talent in there, Dolph Zigler's match against Del Rio with the double turn had me on the edge of my seat but what have either of them done since? Also Big E could be their next main guy, an incredible talent. 

Sabin should never have been the world champion, that was just dumb. Similar situation in both companies with great talent not being used due to poor booking. Russo for his many many flaws would at least give something for the whole roster to do. I bet WWE will be able to find something for Sheamus to do when he comes back!

Although the writing is poor Wyatt family is perhaps my favourite gimmick ever! Perhaps NXT is the show to watch?


----------



## elbows (Nov 1, 2013)

Bad booking makes it hard for me to watch either product these days, but I still keep up with things.

TNA is in dire financial trouble as moving out of the impact zone and taping on the road cost too much money. They will be going back to taping mostly in one location soon. And they wasted huge amounts on the likes of Hogan and Bischoff. The Carter family are no longer willing to keep throwing their money at things, hence all the cuts. They are looking to sell TNA, if they can. Proper wrestling storylines improved once Russo was gone, but they still made lots of mistakes. Most recently Bischoff has been sent home, so he is now out of power in TNA.

As for WWE, they do have a real problem making new stars. Part of it is the usual 'big man fetish' of Vince and others, but its also because they give up on potential talent too quickly, do too much parity booking (not letting people go on proper win streaks etc) which doesn't get anyone over, and also a pathetic tendency to punish people who have offended people in power via booking. For example Ziggler has obvious done 'something wrong' and is being punished at the moment. HHH has flaws too, some of his ideas take things back to decent pro wrestling, but he still has a dodgy ego which causes him to bury talent on-air in a way that is not really good for business.

I believe the writing in WWE has gone noticeably downhill since Summerslam because one of their head writers who actually had some good ideas and skill got tired of the crappy culture of the place and left.

Overall the last ten years has been quite depressing.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 6, 2013)

Well, my childhood regression has continued in the past couple of days with my watching old WWF pay-per-views on YT. Never thought they'd be on there, but a chance search revealed a huge back catalogue for me to digest over the coming months. I know I've suggested in the past that VKMcM is pure evil in a red bow tie, and that all my childhood heroes lay dead whilst he bathes in papier mache made from champagne and $100 bills, but fuck I'm overawed by it all. Fake or not, some of these guys seemed to risk serious injuries on every third move, and for an absolute pittance (if all the anti-wrestling guff I like to reads on middle-mouse-click maudlin Saturdays is to be believed). Someone tell me I'm wrong, there are useful things I could be doing...

Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby Heenan: fucking ledges (can I pluralise that?)


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm avoiding the PPVs right now (as I've been watching them out of order and need to pull it all together before my head explodes) but I've found the full series of Monday Night RAW. I'm especially pleased because I always (as a cynical child) resented the fact we couldn't see this (easily the main weekly WWF show) in Britain.

I've also decided upon my favourite wrestlers (of the 92-94 era that I'm watching):- British Bulldog - no suprises, though I was shocked to see how tank-like he was at the European Rampage Tour 1992 - hardly suprising he was first out of the door. Doink the Clown - I always liked him, and was saddened to read that the original wrestler to play him, Matt Osborne, (there were four in total) died recently. He played the original heel Doink who played tricks on the audience and fought (with some assistance/double vision) against Bret Hart and Crush. Marty Jannetty is my other pick. His PPV career was pretty much over by the time I came to the WWF (mid to late 1993) and only really saw him on video as one half of the Rockers, but I've enjoyed watching him on YT - and he kept the Rocker's entrance music, IMO the best.

Is anyone familiar with PCW? I've only recently heard of it, and it seems to be the business.

Keep promising myself I'll brave the nasties in the loft to dig out the photos of me posing with the British Bulldog and LOD Hawk


----------



## bromley (Nov 23, 2013)

I think John Cena sums up what is wrong. A great talent with a ridiculous work rate. He should be one of the best ever but they don't want to change his gimmick and is therefore dull. Remember how hated Rocky Maivia was when he debuted? It must surely due to the ratings war being over. 

One thing that is very interesting and one that i can't explain, no matter how bad wrestling is, the fans keep watching it! It's like a sports team allegiance to a television show, which I believe is unique.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 12, 2014)

Watched WCW for the first time today. A PPV from the era when they were supposedly beating the WWF in the ratings. My word, what a load of unpolished shite. They had Mean Gean doing the promos and the Brain on commenary, but it just looked like one of the local British shows I went to as a kid (these I enjoyed immensely, but I don't want to see them on the tellybox).


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2014)

Quite surreal to see a WWE story near the top of the 'most read' section on the BBC news site. Don't recall that happening before.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/25911039

As to the whole thing with Daniel Bryan and the crowd repeatedly 'hijacking shows' with the yes chant because of WWE failing to give him a proper main event push, things may now have moved on to the point where the whole story is a bit of a work, especially as some present and former stars are speaking out in the media in a way they never normally do when under WWE corporate control. But given how many times they have dropped the ball in the last decade, I don't have too much faith that they will do the right thing.


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 9, 2014)

The Ultimate Warrior dies, just days after being inducted into the HOF and reappearing on RAW, there goes a bit of my childhood jumping off sofas at my cousin 

For anyone who's not seen it, this was a blistering speech to go out on



And on RAW, just last night, almost like he knew -


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 9, 2014)

Returning to parts unknown!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 9, 2014)

While reading a few articles about Warrior's death I discovered that Mabel/Viscera died a few weeks back.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 9, 2014)

Not Paul Bearer as well! they just don't make managers like that anymore


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Not Paul Bearer as well! they just don't make managers like that anymore



Bobby 'The Brain' Heenan has been in poor shape for many years too, cancer has robbed him of speech and a chunk of his face 

Happily for current wrestling fans there has been a slight return to quality managers that make the product entertaining in the last few years. Paul Heyman cuts some amazing promo's these days, and Zeb Coulter can do wacky heel manager facial expressions etc.

I saw the Undertaker in a nightclub in Birmingham in the early 1990's and the only thing I could think to say to him at the time was 'does Paul Bearers voice get on your nerves?' 

Amusingly enough away from wrestling Paul Bearer was actually a real licensed mortician!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 21, 2014)

TIL that Owen Hart and Jim Neidhart were a tagteam called the New Foundation and that they used the catchy entrance tune later employed by my beloved Heavenly Bodies. I always wondered wtf the Jim Neidhart action figure was wearing, but it matches Owen's outfit whereas Koko B Ware's doesn't. Shame, I seemed to remember High Energy well (and positively) and was surprised when I read they only appeared at one PPV (as videos of PPVs were all I had of anything before 1993) and that (as in Bret's book) Owen hated the partnership...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 21, 2014)

at some point between13-16 I stopped watching it for the fights and was more into the drama...which usually ended with people in  the dressing room lamping each other with fold up chairs...


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 3, 2014)

Dailymotion is proving to be an excellent resource. Pretty much everything but the first two and a half years of RAW have been deleted from YT, but DM has plenty of episodes of Primetime Wrestling and Superstars of Wrestling from the late eighties and very early nineties


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 29, 2014)

WWE network launches in the UK on Wednesday and it's still not clear what we will get, how it will work or what it will cost


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2014)

Nine Bob Note said:


> WWE network launches in the UK on Wednesday and it's still not clear what we will get, how it will work or what it will cost



Indeed. I will speculate. It will cost somewhere between £6.99-£9.99 a month. It will be via the internet & internet connected devices, pretty much the same as the US version in this regard, and no deals with the likes of virgin or sky to let it be a proper tv channel. As for content, it won't be as neutered as the Canadian version. But there is a big question as to whether it will carry the live pay-per-views, due to the existing deal with Sky which they renewed not so long ago and had terms that were quite lucrative.


----------



## elbows (Sep 30, 2014)

It seems they've now pushed everything back, as they are in discussions with 'potential partners'. We might hear more on November 1st.

One reason I can think of for this, is that Sky are not happy and think it treads on their deal. Another, possibly even more likely, is that WWE have seen that the really neutered version of the network that launched with a cable partner in Canada did really well, and now have something similar in mind for the UK.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 30, 2014)

Yeah, fucking Murdoch wants his cut  Serious bullshit to pull the day before - they must have known they were nowhere with this.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 1, 2014)

All this bullshit is surely surrounding the rights to future PPVs (I know we've always had a relatively good deal here in Englandshire with these re Sky Sports) - in all honestly, I couldn't give a shit about these, or anything that has happened in the past twenty (alright, eighteen) years. 

It's the classic episodes of Prime Time Wrestling (from the early 90s) with Vinnie Mac, Heenan and Perfect (plus guests) sat around a table bitching about the past week's events that I want most. Early eps of Monday Night Raw too - I've previously said how much I've enjoyed watching these on YT (now deleted) as we never got this in Britain when I was a kid fan. House shows also, especially those in MSG - big audiences, big names and the Fink on mic - am curious as to when (and why) they got Lord Alfred and Sean Mooney/Gorilla Monsoon to record supplementary commentary for them  Dailymotion can be pretty good for these (as opposed to YT), but it's still a chore to search for them and even then they're usually something a fan has ripped from his old (LP) VHS tapes, uploaded in numerous parts.

The idea of paying more (the figure of £15/pm has been frequently floated for a prospective Sky deal) for getting a restricted platform is not acceptable. I have a Sky box, but I won't be upgrading it to an HD box so that I can pay over the odds for this - I'd sooner opt for a US subscription.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 4, 2014)

Loads of episodes of Superstars from 1986 recently uploaded to Dailymotion, possibly enough to keep me occupied until Nov 1st. Strange seeing Honky as a face


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 9, 2014)

I've been enjoying these eps from the mid 80s, especially the war between Piper's Pit and the Flower Shop, but fucking hell Piper was a racist cunt back then...


----------



## elbows (Oct 10, 2014)

Indeed. The mid 80's is a few years before I watched it originally but that shit was still going on in 1990 with his feud with Bad News Brown. Although lets face it, it wasn't just Piper and although its been forced to change over time, the world of wrestling still yearns to make race and nationality a part of the storylines whenever the opportunity arises.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 11, 2014)

elbows said:


> Indeed. The mid 80's is a few years before I watched it originally but that shit was still going on in 1990 with his feud with Bad News Brown. Although lets face it, it wasn't just Piper and although its been forced to change over time, the world of wrestling still yearns to make race and nationality a part of the storylines whenever the opportunity arises.



When I saw that first time around (on video 1993-1994) I assumed it was Piper's idea of proving he _wasn't_ racist, but now I don't think anyone is too sure what he was playing at, though it's a safe assumpion that the stuff going up his nose at the time definately wasn't black. In any case, someone who didn't much care for him backstage gave him paint that wouldn't wash off and he was stuck looking like that for weeks. The earlier stuff I've recently seen was worse. I swear I heard him say to Slick during an interview "Where did you get those lips? They look like bicycle pedals..."


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2014)

Some Good news regarding the network in the uk. The network didn't do great in Canada beyond the first week, so what I was saying before didn't turn out to be the case.

And in their corporate conference call thing McMahon said they plan to make the network available in the U.K. on an OTT basis in November. And what OTT apparently means according to wikipedia is:

Over-the-top content (OTT) refers to delivery of audio, video, and other media over the Internet without a multiple-system operator being involved in the control or distribution of the content.


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2014)

> Finally! WWE network available in the UK
> 
> Directly from WWE, WWE Network will be available for FREE starting Monday, Nov. 3 through the end of the month, including Survivor Series, on Web, iPhone, iPad and Android devices. Go to WWE.com on Monday, Nov. 3 at 8:00 p.m. GMT to sign up. WWE Network will be available to you on other platforms, including Xbox One and Xbox 360, Amazon Fire TV, Apple TV, Roku streaming devices, and select Smart TVs on Tuesday, Nov. 18 in time for Survivor Series so you can watch on your big screen TV.
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2014)

I see Adrian Street got a bit of press recently, complete with over the top quotes and a desire not to see kayfabe die that is typical of both British stars of that era, and the way the press in the UK often still report on things to do with old school British wrestling today. A couple of nice pics of him at the coal mine in his 'exotic' garb too.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-27889890


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 4, 2014)

Nine Bob Note said:


> WWE network launches in the UK on Wednesday and it's still not clear what we will get, how it will work or what it will cost



It got pulled? I sense Sky's meddling fingers.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 4, 2014)

Ok, WWE....my boy got some John Cena fists and a blow-up punch bag on his 8th birthday about a month ago, so for about the last 5 or 6 weeks we've been watching RAW and SmackDown, and the Hell in a Cell ppv. My kids absolutely *LOVE IT*!  I've been amazed that my 13 yo daughter loved it even more than the boy, and has asked for WWE clothes and posters for Christmas. We have loads of fun watching it, Miz & Mizdow, Stardust & Goldust, Cena, Seth Rollins, and in particular Dean _Unstable_ Ambrose are the favourites.

So, on Sunday I was idly surfing the internet wondering if WWE ever comes to the UK....I was amazed to find out that RAW/SmackDown are being filmed in Liverpool next week. Right on our doorstep. RAW was sold out, but I got tickets for SmackDown. It's worked out perfectly, because Ambrose is on SmackDown. When I told them we were going on Sunday night I have never ever seen them so excited...they were screaming and jumping for minutes. My daughter was nearly sick with excitement. I have never seen thenm so happy, not even on Christmas day


----------



## elbows (Nov 4, 2014)

Good stuff, it is a lot of fun when families get into it.

As for the network in the UK, yes it got pulled again, just 20 minutes before it was supposed to launch this time. People are very unhappy, especially as it is pretty much a certainty that Sky is involved with this situation and the loyal audience are being screwed by corporate brinkmanship.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 4, 2014)

elbows said:


> Good stuff, it is a lot of fun when families get into it.
> 
> As for the network in the UK, yes it got pulled again, just 20 minutes before it was supposed to launch this time. People are very unhappy, especially as it is pretty much a certainty that Sky is involved with this situation and the loyal audience are being screwed by corporate brinkmanship.



They're screwing themselves. I have to revert to _other_ means, when I would gladly pay WWE the "9.99". Sky aren't getting a penny from me though.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 4, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> They're screwing themselves. I have to revert to _other_ means, when I would gladly pay WWE the "9.99". Sky aren't getting a penny from me though.



My thoughts exactly. McMahon being a much more reputable business man than Murdoch. Sssshhhhh!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 11, 2014)

I've spent two days listening to the NewGenPodcast and, again (after listening to the entire OSW catalogue) I'm pleased to hear that, despite what I've read in Wrestlecrap and the like, those I liked in my childhood and still do are actually regarded highly by those of a similar age to me. The biggest star of the early nineties? Apparently one Papa Shango


----------



## elbows (Nov 11, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> So, on Sunday I was idly surfing the internet wondering if WWE ever comes to the UK....I was amazed to find out that RAW/SmackDown are being filmed in Liverpool next week. Right on our doorstep. RAW was sold out, but I got tickets for SmackDown. It's worked out perfectly, because Ambrose is on SmackDown. When I told them we were going on Sunday night I have never ever seen them so excited...they were screaming and jumping for minutes. My daughter was nearly sick with excitement. I have never seen thenm so happy, not even on Christmas day



I saw this report on a wrestling site, can you confirm if it happened? Hope you had fun anyway!



> After a totally dead first hour, I mean crowd unbelievably dead, Vince McMahon came out for a cameo and berated us all for being a dead crowd, and told us to have some fun dammit. He mocked the crowd & City name & said other UK cities were louder. This was a quick 2 min promo on the stage and not taped for tv. Never seen this happen at a taping before, which shows how bad it was.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 12, 2014)

elbows said:


> I saw this report on a wrestling site, can you confirm if it happened? Hope you had fun anyway!



I'm so tired right now...didn't get back til way past 1am, and am in work now. We all had a great night at the wrestling, we loved it! 

As for the crowd being dead? That's not true, it was very animated. What brought Vince out were the deafening chants of "Where's our Network", especially during Stephanie's promo. I think he was really pissed off at that. Yes, there were a couple of mathches  when the crowd were really quiet, but that was just because the matches were not very good and didn't deserve cheering (especially the first Divas match...it was really bad). I've read a few tweets about it being dead, which are absolutely not true. It was really really loud for Sami Zayn, Adrian Neville, Chris Jericho, and Dean Ambrose, and the roof came off during the highlight...an epic three way fight for the IC Championship between Tyson Kidd, Cesaro, and Dolph Ziggler. Kane v Ryback was a bit quiet, but that's because of their lumbering styles. Everyone loved the dark match at the end...Wyatt & Kane vs Ambrose and Jericho. Awesome end to the night with Ambrose running through the crowd for ages. the four of us had a fantastic night, and so did everyone around us.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 12, 2014)

Chris Jericho's handling of the (good hearted) "Wheres our network" chants was great, he has real charisma (wrestling days are behind him though). Can't wait to see how they edit them out, especially during Stepohanie's chants...could hardly hear her 

Oh, another highlight for me was when everyone boo'ed when they showed an Anfield/Kop reel. Place was packed with my fellow Evertonians


----------



## elbows (Nov 13, 2014)

Cheers for the first hand report, glad you all had fun 

Don't be surprised if it comes off rather differently on tv, especially as there were reports of the crowd noise being turned down pretty much constantly on RAW.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 15, 2014)

TIL 'Mr Excitement' Jack Tunney was fired as WWF President after being caught embezzling funds to pay off his gambling debts


----------



## elbows (Nov 16, 2014)

Nine Bob Note said:


> TIL 'Mr Excitement' Jack Tunney was fired as WWF President after being caught embezzling funds to pay off his gambling debts



Not sure thats ever been completely confirmed. They were in cost cutting & office closing mode at the time, so its hard to be sure. But they never acknowledged his death on TV and he was relatively young when he died. And promoters of those eras were certainly in their own dodgy bubble.


----------



## elbows (Nov 16, 2014)

Mind you at least when he was on-screen president, the role of authority figure hadn't yet been done to death in wrestling. Evil Mr McMahon was great in the first years, but the heel authority figure has been dominating badly-written, last-minute, potential-star crushing wrestling storylines for far too long now. HHH and Stephanie are playing their parts well at the moment but I'm still far from convinced its good for business, especially the way Stephanie has made people she was trying to 'recruit for team authority' look like geeks lately.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Dec 25, 2014)

Sad news that I just heard whilst listening to the NewGen podcast this morning:



> WWE is saddened is learn that David Ferrier, better known to WWE fans as Jimmy Del Ray, passed away Saturday night at the age of 52. His death was the result of injuries suffered in a single-vehicle accident in Tampa, Fla., Saturday, according to a Tampa Tribune report.
> 
> As one-half of The Heavenly Bodies tag team alongside partner Tom Prichard and manager Jim Cornette, Ferrier — who went by the nickname “Gigolo” — thrilled and infuriated audiences in WWE in the early to mid-1990s. The Heavenly Bodies also enjoyed great success in Smoky Mountain Wrestling, winning the Tennessee-based organization’s tag team titles on numerous occasions, as well as a stint in Extreme Championship Wrestling. At Survivor Series 1993, Del Ray (Ferrier) & Prichard defeated The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express to capture the SMW Tag Team Championship, becoming the first Superstars to win a title not sanctioned by WWE on a WWE pay-per-view. Later in his career, Ferrier also competed in WCW, where he wrestled under the moniker Jimmy Graffiti.



The newgen guys love the Heavenly Bodies, as do I - probably my favourite ever tag team. Pity they weren't around in the Fed for a bit longer


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 7, 2015)

It's a happenin (© Gorilla Monsoon) the Network is finally coming January 19th (I do actually believe it this time). All you can eat for a tenner a month. Nearly 50% more than the Americans have to pay, but that's still only a packet of fags or so. Fucking need that new computer now so I can just send it to my telly via HDMI


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 14, 2015)

Just watched a random MSG houseshow from '86 on YT. First match: FUCKING 'Number One Frenchman' Worzel v FUCKING Lanny 'the Genius' Poffo *old school mark heaven*  Fantastic match between the Hart Foundation and the Killer Bees. Steamer forcing Muraco to run the ropes like a tank with a V8 all the while with Fuji in his prime as the shifty little foreign manager.

I'm not sure what the most cuntish thing of the night was - a capacity crowd (25 000 New Yorkers) chanting 'faggot' at Adrian Adonis or Hogan kicking out of Savage's elbow (then considered the most 'devastating' move in wrestling) after a ONE count


----------



## elbows (Jan 14, 2015)

Largely dissatisfied with the current WWE product for ten years or more, I may already have overdone the nostalgia to compensate. So I'm not sure how much excitement I have for the network now. New Japan Pro Wrestling is far more compelling, and the new year Tokyo Dome show with Jim Ross on commentary was so bloody great. Maybe I will subscribe to their network instead, despite the language barrier.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 15, 2015)

Well, I thought I'd subscribed this avo, but no. 

Spent an hour trying to login using three different browsers on two different computers but kept being redirected to the start page. The whole technology behind it is clearly a fucking mess, endlessly bouncing you between domains.

When I gave up and tried to login on my phone (as neither of my smart tellys are compatible) I discovered that the payment had failed (the payment process died before confirmation, and I misread the email I was sent). Might save my two week trial for a few months down the line when hopefully it'll be sorted.

Oh, well, back to watching uploads to Youtube. If you don't want my money, WWE, I'll keep it.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 20, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Well, I thought I'd subscribed this avo, but no.
> 
> Spent an hour trying to login using three different browsers on two different computers but kept being redirected to the start page. The whole technology behind it is clearly a fucking mess, endlessly bouncing you between domains.
> 
> ...



Umm, I set this up on my Windows 8 laptop, my daughter's iPad, our living room PS3, the spare Xbox 360, the bedroom ROKU....all in about half an hour and it  all works perfectly.

eta: this was about 7pm....so maybe it had settled down by then?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 20, 2015)

So, got the WWE Network last night, and slightly disappointed that RAW is not on it until a month after it's shown, otherwise I think the content is great. So far I've watched some of this:

Last year's Royal Rumble
A funny SmackDown from 1999 when Stephanie and Triple H take over after getting married
NXT fight between Sami Zayn and Adrian Neville
The first Royal Rumble from 1988
A documentary about the fall of WCW.

There's so much stuff on it to watch (except RAW). I'm looking forward to more NXT.


----------



## elbows (Jan 20, 2015)

NXT is rather good indeed most of the time, probably because Vince McMahon doesn't fiddle around with the show at the last minute, or have numerous opportunities to demonstrate now only how out of touch with the modern audience he is, but also most of the fundamentals of what makes pro wrestling work as entertainment. Given that the WWF initial growth into a national promotion was made easier by how out of touch some of the owners/bookers of competing territories had become, its a real shame there isn't more decent competition around for WWE these days, threats that could bring faster change to some of the areas WWE has notably declined in over the last 10+ years. I'm not convinced Vince has retained his instincts since losing his main competitor.

RAW is too much of a chore at 3 hours long, especially when time invested in the program is so often wasted by virtue of them deciding to drop a storyline angle soon after it has begun. I'd rather watch WWE wrestling from a parallel universe, perhaps diverging from this reality at the point they decided to drop the Kurt Angle-Steph-HHH love triangle angle, or the botched WCW invasion storyline (I won't be seeking out Buff Bagel matches on the network in a hurry!). These days they are busy killing off the credibility of stipulations - someone loses a match with repercussions such as storyline injuries, storyline firings, storyline loss of power, and they are usually back on tv/back in their previous position within a week or two 

Anyway despite this ranting, my earlier posts and new found love for New Japan Pro Wrestling, I subscribed to the network for now. I suspect I'll be bored with it by the time the current products 'road to wrestlemania' season (Royal Rumble through to Wrestlemania itself) is done. But since I first stated watching US pro wrestling in the late 80's, was interested even then in earlier stuff from the territories, and also missed almost all of WCW and several key attitude era years, I can eek out some more nostalgia value from the network for a while at least.

Perhaps it might be fun to make suggestions about what to watch on the network. I watched the triple threat tag-team tables, ladders and chairs match from Wrestlemania 17 featuring Edge & Christian, the Hardy Boys and the Dudley Boys. Rather brutal compared to similar matches of today.

Other things that may jar the senses somewhat when watching that era of WWE that I've noticed so far are seeing Chris Benoit all over the place, and Jerry the King Lawlers awful schtick about puppies etc.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 20, 2015)

Did you see the ladders match between Dolph Ziggler and Luke Harper recently, elbows? A great one of you haven't seen it yet.


----------



## fen_boy (Jan 22, 2015)

Just watched One Night Only from 1997 in Birmingham. Not seen it before, was really great. Crowds need to chuck more stuff like they did then.


----------



## elbows (Jan 23, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Did you see the ladders match between Dolph Ziggler and Luke Harper recently, elbows? A great one of you haven't seen it yet.



Cheers for the tip, not seen it yet.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 13, 2015)

Anyone watch the NXT takeover? Enjoying it much more than RAW. The match between Adrian Neville and Finn Balor was superb


----------



## gareth taylor (Feb 15, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Anyone watch the NXT takeover? Enjoying it much more than RAW. The match between Adrian Neville and Finn Balor was superb


 any idea if taker is  going wrestle at mania 31 ?


----------



## gareth taylor (Feb 15, 2015)

kained&able said:


> So big changes in the world of wrestling this week. With lots of opportunity to geek out and who knows the monday night wars might be back on!!
> 
> Tna is now partly owned by Hogan who paraded his friends across our screens, which was fairly cool, hopefully they wont be there for too long though and TNA can get back to doing what it does best. Lots of people doing flip dives! Looks like TNA will be getting bigger sooner, lets just hope everyone has learned thier lessons from the WCW days. It has some amazing perfromers and amazing womens divsion and actually caters for roughly what i want to watch, which is nice.
> 
> ...


 l loved wcw in there prime wrestling wasn't the same when they went out of business in 2001


----------



## elbows (Mar 22, 2015)

RIP Perro Aguayo Jr, who died in the ring aged just 35 the other day. Heart attack due to neck trauma, some confusion over which move caused it, and an absolutely crap medical response by the promotion on multiple levels. The footage makes me very cross.


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 30, 2015)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 30, 2015)

fen_boy said:


>



A winner is that guy.

My alternate response is fuck, Steve Austin's let himself go.

Knew Rollins would walk out with the strap and was gonna put a bet on, but the best I could find were crappy odds on his mearly cashing in his contract


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 1, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> A winner is that guy.
> 
> My alternate response is fuck, Steve Austin's let himself go.
> 
> Knew Rollins would walk out with the strap and was gonna put a bet on, but the best I could find were crappy odds on his mearly cashing in his contract


 glad sting finally got match with wwe, wonder if he will be at summerslam ?


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> glad sting finally got match with wwe, wonder if he will be at summerslam ?



Unfortunately the commentary for that match sucked. In the sense of it being obvious that the giant egos of WWE decided to use Sting to restate WWE superiority over WCW all over again. Plus he probably shouldn't have lost if they wanted him in other big matches.

Having said that, the idea that was his last ever match is still just a possibility, he could be at another big show later this year, or some people would still like to see him take on Undertaker at next years Wrestlemania.


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 3, 2015)

elbows said:


> Unfortunately the commentary for that match sucked. In the sense of it being obvious that the giant egos of WWE decided to use Sting to restate WWE superiority over WCW all over again. Plus he probably shouldn't have lost if they wanted him in other big matches.
> 
> Having said that, the idea that was his last ever match is still just a possibility, he could be at another big show later this year, or some people would still like to see him take on Undertaker at next years Wrestlemania.


 wrestlemania 32 its got be sting v undertaker !


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 3, 2015)

Anyone seen RAW? The Lesnar bit is quite hilarious 

Also, has an Adrian Neville clip, be good to see him on the main roster


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 3, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Anyone seen RAW? The Lesnar bit is quite hilarious
> 
> Also, has an Adrian Neville clip, be good to see him on the main roster


 wcw v wwf invasion what would folk done different ?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 4, 2015)

Well, with the new computer set up, and having successfully connected it to my telly's hdmi, I was gonna 'subscribe' and watch WM31 tomorrow, but it looks like OSW are gonna save me ten quid


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 5, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Well, with the new computer set up, and having successfully connected it to my telly's hdmi, I was gonna 'subscribe' and watch WM31 tomorrow, but it looks like OSW are gonna save me ten quid



NXT is worth a tenner a month.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 6, 2015)

I've signed up, but prolly only for the one month (for now). I forgot that everything is cut to shreds because billionaire Vince is too cheap to pay music royalties. Stuck Rumble 93 on and started dancing about when the Beverly Brothers' theme hit and was NOT impressed when some god awful generic crap was slapped over it a few seconds later


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 13, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I've signed up, but prolly only for the one month (for now). I forgot that everything is cut to shreds because billionaire Vince is too cheap to pay music royalties. Stuck Rumble 93 on and started dancing about when the Beverly Brothers' theme hit and was NOT impressed when some god awful generic crap was slapped over it a few seconds later


 anyone got any wwe news ?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 13, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> anyone got any wwe news ?



Adrian Neville is now on the main roster, complete with cape!


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 13, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Adrian Neville is now on the main roster, complete with cape!


 any news if samoe joe is coming soon ?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 13, 2015)

gareth taylor said:


> any news if samoe joe is coming soon ?



Who's that?


----------



## gareth taylor (Apr 13, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Who's that?


 he used to be a big star in tna


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 15, 2015)

I've found all the old RAWs, so I may well just stay* Jobber squash matches were under-rated IMO, and I loved Macho and VinnieMac on commentary, especially when they had to make up for Rob Bartlet.

I've just started reading the 'Unofficial WWF Video Guides,' and it's probably the first time I've found commentators of the era with whom I disagree. Papa Shango was not 'dull and one-dimensional,' he was fucking awesome  To think we got years of Kama instead  If I've taken one thing from them, it's that I need to track down shows with Johnny Polo alongside Gorilla at the announce desk. I recall his occasional appearance on RAW after both Heenan and Savage had gone down south (watching in recent years on YT - we never got RAW in Britain at that time), but I never thought of him as a diehard mark frustrated by the Fed's policy of ignoring their own past.

*Truth be known the highlight of the Network for me is the Legends of Wrestling series with all the old timers in a seemingly shoot roundtable environment. Mean Gene is a fucking pro.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 20, 2015)

I'm now on to the RAWs from Sept '93 (on my first official 'network' viewing). The Steiners, having defended their titles at Summerslam against my fave tag-team of all time: the Doctor of Desire, Tom Prichard, and the Rapist, Jimmy Del Ray, (themselves having appeared on one episode of RAW prior to the PPV) have just dropped the tag straps to the Quebecers (whose existence in the WWF universe has not been mentioned on RAW until this date), only a couple of months after they themselves took them off reliable old Money Inc. I'm guessing they pissed off someone important big style.

Savage and McMahon seem to be ganging up on Heenan in an almost shoot sense, which is a shame, as I know the best colour commentator in wrestling history will be gone for good in only a matter of weeks. That, in his final few weeks, the ultimate heel manager (along with the supposedly heel-rooting New York audience) was used to turn my favourite wrestler/gimmick of all time, Matt Bourne's Doink the Clown, face is sad.

I looked on Amazon today for a Doink action figure (I collect action figures, though I no longer own any wrestling AFs) I found a deluxe doink in proper heel attire with THREE WIGS: The cheap fancy dress shop curl, the very rare afro and the proper and usual mophead. And then a picture of grinning face Doink Ray Apollo on the box


----------



## gareth taylor (May 21, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I'm now on to the RAWs from Sept '93 (on my first official 'network' viewing). The Steiners, having defended their titles at Summerslam against my fave tag-team of all time: the Doctor of Desire, Tom Prichard, and the Rapist, Jimmy Del Ray, (themselves having appeared on one episode of RAW prior to the PPV) have just dropped the tag straps to the Quebecers (whose existence in the WWF universe has not been mentioned on RAW until this date), only a couple of months after they themselves took them off reliable old Money Inc. I'm guessing they pissed off someone important big style.
> 
> Savage and McMahon seem to be ganging up on Heenan in an almost shoot sense, which is a shame, as I know the best colour commentator in wrestling history will be gone for good in only a matter of weeks. That, in his final few weeks, the ultimate heel manager (along with the supposedly heel-rooting New York audience) was used to turn my favourite wrestler/gimmick of all time, Matt Bourne's Doink the Clown, face is sad.
> 
> I looked on Amazon today for a Doink action figure (I collect action figures, though I no longer own any wrestling AFs) I found a deluxe doink in proper heel attire with THREE WIGS: The cheap fancy dress shop curl, the very rare afro and the proper and usual mophead. And then a picture of grinning face Doink Ray Apollo on the box


 jim ross and lawer best commentary team !


----------



## elbows (May 22, 2015)

Lawler has always annoyed me on commentary, but somehow he always brought out the best in Jim Ross, which in itself was more than enough to qualify their commentary team as one of the best ever. I remember being glad when Lawler left and was replaced by Paul Heyman, but Ross just wasn't the same when paired with Heyman, so I was glad in the end to see Lawler return despite mostly hating his banter.

Heenan has a special 'best' place in my heart and brain, but probably as an all round act rather than for colour commentary specifically. So bloody great when managing, wrestling, and working with Gorilla Monsoon in the studio, and my many happy memories of him doing great colour commentary for WWF is probably somewhat overshadowed by how average most of his WCW work was. Of all the WWF talent that went to WCW, he is the one I most wish had never left, but WWF just couldn't compete with the wages offered by WCW at the time.

I loved the Jessie Ventura-McMahon commentary combo, probably in part because that was the commentary team when I first started watching WWF, and I hadn't had my fill of Jessie before he was suddenly gone. I marked out so badly when they did a one off nostalgia commentary reunion of those two on a historic RAW sometime this century.

I can't comment much on stuff from 93 because my original run of watching WWF ended by 92, and didn't resume till 99. And its really hard to go back and watch pre-attitude WWF eras that have no direct nostalgia value to me. Need the nostalgia to overcome the relative lameness of some periods in the 90's, otherwise its unwatchable for me. I'm a little bitter that I missed the freshest part of the attitude era at the time by not returning to wrestling till late 99, so that period is certainly on my list of things to watch. Question is, where should I start from? Sometime after 1995 I suspect, but not sure exactly how long after.


----------



## gareth taylor (May 22, 2015)

elbows said:


> Lawler has always annoyed me on commentary, but somehow he always brought out the best in Jim Ross, which in itself was more than enough to qualify their commentary team as one of the best ever. I remember being glad when Lawler left and was replaced by Paul Heyman, but Ross just wasn't the same when paired with Heyman, so I was glad in the end to see Lawler return despite mostly hating his banter.
> 
> Heenan has a special 'best' place in my heart and brain, but probably as an all round act rather than for colour commentary specifically. So bloody great when managing, wrestling, and working with Gorilla Monsoon in the studio, and my many happy memories of him doing great colour commentary for WWF is probably somewhat overshadowed by how average most of his WCW work was. Of all the WWF talent that went to WCW, he is the one I most wish had never left, but WWF just couldn't compete with the wages offered by WCW at the time.
> 
> ...


 they need scott Hudson from the wcw days


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 3, 2015)

More infuriation with the network. Tried to log in last night for a pleasant evening of newgen action over a bottle of cava to find I'd been cut off (again) despite having clearly seen the latest monthly transaction on both my paypal and prepaid card statements, both of which have now magically disappeared from all records without a word from either... I've signed up for about the tenth time (you have to do it twice each time as there's no "i've already had a free trial" option), this time with my debit card. I still maintain their entire www intrastructure is an absolute shambles.

Moaning aside, this evo I watched two MNR shows I've been looking forward to: the 1993 IC battle royale, and the subsequent match between Rick Martel and Razor Ramon. I always liked the Model. Hardly an original gimmick, with his Gorgeous George atomiser and his cheap heat pink/baby blue trunks, and I believe not giving him a run with IC belt in his heyday was the right decision (not in the era of Rick Rude, Mr Perfect and Bret Hart) but he was a solid midcard guy none-the-less who, sadly, largely disappeared after his Wembley match with HBK (after which I think he really should have turned face). Reappearing in late 1993 to put over Ramon, the new second (in rank) face of the company (after Bret, Luger can fuck off), after winning a battle royal no less (Martel having been established over the years as a Royal Rumble specialist) and keeping him around to shore up the midcard ranks for the next year or so until Double J and Goldust established themselves.

What I did NOT enjoy was newly face Doink throwing bags of candy floss to kids in the crowd  (to be fair that was on Superstars, but they thought it needed to be repeated)


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 12, 2015)

rip american dream 

i'd post a pic of him of him and sweet sapphire, but i'm on my phone


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 12, 2015)

Yeah, shame to hear that. RIP Dusty Rhodes.

Here's a pic Nine Bob Note


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 12, 2015)

summerslam 1989 for me tonite then. think that's the one with his batshit police hat promo. afaik the hat was never explained.


----------



## gareth taylor (Jun 12, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> summerslam 1989 for me tonite then. think that's the one with his batshit police hat promo. afaik the hat was never explained.


 wwf summerslam 2000 great ppv with great main event


----------



## elbows (Jun 12, 2015)

I'm assuming the police hat emerged as an extension of the night stick that I assume came from a Big Bossman feud.

I've mostly only seen WWF Dusty and highlight-reel clips of his work in other places at other times. I hope to see more appear on the network if they bother to publish more promotions tv shows from their archive. There appear to be no end of mad promos in his career!



When I saw him at the time in WWF late 80's I think I probably got distracted by the honking noise he makes when installing sharply during intense promos.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 12, 2015)

Best promo


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 12, 2015)

Just watched the SNME where DiBiase and Virgil showed up during Dusty's match with Macho and attacked Dustin who was sat in the audience. Wasn't even on the roster and he still fucking bladed. That's a wrestling family


----------



## gareth taylor (Jun 15, 2015)

elbows said:


> I'm assuming the police hat emerged as an extension of the night stick that I assume came from a Big Bossman feud.
> 
> I've mostly only seen WWF Dusty and highlight-reel clips of his work in other places at other times. I hope to see more appear on the network if they bother to publish more promotions tv shows from their archive. There appear to be no end of mad promos in his career!
> 
> ...



 rip dusty !


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 1, 2015)

I'm hesitant to say RIP Roddy Piper, as I've never really liked him, but fuck, I didn't want to read the news at 1am on DM while pissed


----------



## gareth taylor (Aug 1, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I'm hesitant to say RIP Roddy Piper, as I've never really liked him, but fuck, I didn't want to read the news at 1am on DM while pissed


 glad undertaker is back !


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 1, 2015)

Not for _too _much longer, I'd hope (for his sake). One of the Piper articles I've read this morning has a picture of him wrestling with a fat Jimmy Snuka. Guy must have been seventy


----------



## gareth taylor (Aug 1, 2015)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Not for _too _much longer, I'd hope (for his sake). One of the Piper articles I've read this morning has a picture of him wrestling with a fat Jimmy Snuka. Guy must have been seventy


 think will see taker v sting showdown after the lesnar match at summerslam !


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 19, 2015)

eric20 said:


> who is going to win dead man or beast ????
> My vote for the beast



Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrock! Lessssssnnnnnaaaaarrrrrrr!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 19, 2015)

eric20 said:


> sooooooo excited



I've got to catch up on Monday's RAW, but I'm looking forward to both Summerslam and NXT Takeover....going to be watching a lot of wrestling over the next few days.


----------



## bromley (Aug 19, 2015)

Brock to win due to the ending of Raw.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 19, 2015)

I'm holiday, so I'm tempted to go to bed extra-early on Sunday and get up to watch Summerslam. The last (and only) PPV I've ever watched live was WM12, and I'd lost interest by then and fell asleep during the ironman match. If I don't, I was very pleased to read earlier that there definately will be an OSW review of the show


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 23, 2015)

I now get the NXT love - I'm watching it regularly and working my way through the back issues. Not yet sure how this works as a developmental territory as opposed to just a seperate roster that doesn't go anywhere else, but I don't really care coz it's so good.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 6, 2015)

Almost squealed today when I realised Takeover was _this _Wednesday night and not next week. Did watch NOC, but skipped through much of the non-Owens and non-Charlotte stuff.


----------



## elbows (Jan 1, 2016)

The London NXT show was great fun to watch live on the network a few weeks back. The crowd really made it, though I did tire of them by the end - screw with the ref counts if you want but give it a rest during the peak of the main event eh?

I see there are still some days left to watch a BBC program about Fergal Devitt as he prepared to go to WWE (as Finn Balor). Not watched it myself yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03b2qs3


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 3, 2016)

It's worth a watch. Made me want to go see the Scottish Insane wrestling thing.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 6, 2016)

I was disappointed he never got _his _balls out  

I did start a full review of Takeover: London, but my browser must have restarted itself as when I got up the next day the draft was gone. Might redo it, as it was an excellent show


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 27, 2016)

*Royal Rumble 2016*

Hugely enjoyable show - *easily *the best PPV the main roster has done in years.

*Kevin Owens v Dean Ambrose*
KO is the best thing in, like, ever, and I love Ambrose too. Wish this were for the big belt. I don't like the TLC/hardcore shit, never have, never will, but this was hugely enjoyable. Ambrose wins decisively, which I wouldn't mind if it weren't for KO's apparent next feud (which'll presumably see him losing more often than not).

*New Day v The Usos*
My sky box doesn't work, so I don't see Raw, though I'm aware that New Day have been the best thing on it for the better part of a year. Xavier is clearly _the _star, so I feel he should have Kofi's awesome winged boots. Please get the Usos some new outfits - their leggings look like bandages, as if they've just been discharged from a burns unit.

*Kalisto v Alberto Del Rio*
I'll be honest, I fell asleep during this this, but then I usually do on a Monday afternoon (when I watched the show) so it wasn't due to the match. Kalisto I know from NXT as the non-botchy Lucha Dragon. What I saw looked good enough, but I had little interest.

*Charlotte v Becky Lynch*
Having watched face NXT Charlotte I was surprised to read about how she was a heel on Raw, but I enjoyed her and Flair's comedy heel cheaty antics tremendously - he might aswell have donned a tuxedo and bowler hat and called himself Mr Fuji. I love Becky (but not the pigeon lady hat - where the fuck are the steampunk goggles?) and want to see her hold _a_ belt, but I marked out big-stylee when (as expected) I heard Sasha's music. Yeah, dumb fuck that I am, genuinely thought she was making the face-turning save. So, she's still a tweener - *I* don't have a problem with this, but I'm told it's a death sentence on the main roster.

*The Rumble Match*
No huge surprises, it was always gonna go one of two ways, both involving Triple H and Reigns. Didn't realise at the time, but after reading others' reviews I see that they made Reigns look like a joke, having their big babyface carted out injured and missing half the match, whilst KO staggers to the ring and puts in a good performance. AJ Styles, pretty much expected to show up, and was given a very good run in the match. Sami Zayn, too - might as well make the most of the Orlando crowd to remind non-NXT viewers that he's a big deal and he'll be with them very soon. Alas, another Papa Shango-free year. With his going into the HoF in April I did think he was a definate possibility this time. Oh well, maybe in 2017.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2016)

Nine Bob Note said:


> So, she's still a tweener - *I* don't have a problem with this, but I'm told it's a death sentence on the main roster.



I don't think being a tweeter is on my list of main roster death sentences. Here is a small sample of some that are, which of course a tweeter may fall foul of like anyone else on the roster:

Awful storylines with little regard for continuity or true character development.
Forced to read awful scripted dialogue featuring words inauthentic to your character.
Getting over when they aren't trying to push you. (e.g. Zack Ryder back in the day).
Being a babyface who is booked to look like an idiot (e.g. repeatedly falling for same distractions)

Perhaps the idea of a tweeter being a death sentence is actually referring to one about their booking that I hate and that has been a great detriment to the WWE shows in recent years. 50/50 booking. Where they have such a lack of depth in their main roster that they become afraid to truly put people over each other, by having them win decisively and repeatedly. So they have one person win one week and their opponent win in a rematch the next week. So you end up with a roster of mid carders. And no surprise that the few exceptions they make to this rule, e.g. Brock Lesnar, get over huge. We can't go back to having true jobber squash matches on tv all the time these days, but the 50/50 booking habit went too far at times in recent years and now they have a huge mid card and a very thin top level of guys. 

I suppose in a way I should be glad, because these booking failures have forced them to look to the wider world of wrestling for established talent in recent years, and we are getting treated to some nice 'WWE fresh' quality wrestlers in both NXT and the main roster as a result. For example in addition to all the quality NXT already has, Nakamura and Austin Aries sound like they are on the Dallas TakeOver lineup. And Bayley v Asuka, which I a looking forward to.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 2, 2016)

Well, possibly the biggest NXT show of all time is currently taking place. I'll be watching tmoz evening to cheer me up (last day of my Easter holiday). It's a smaller stadium than London, and I doubt they'll be as loud, but the card - bar one match - looks awesome.
*
Apollo Crews vs the Drifter*
Speculation the Drifter will drift away in mere seconds, never to be seen again. The guy looks, err ...big, and is good-looking enough, but the gimmick stinks. Why is his theme tune an electric guitar? Does he have a band that drifts around with him? I'd've prefered a feud between Crews and Angry Angry Alex Riley.

*Sami Zayn vs Shinsuke Nakamura*
Zayn, as I predicted, is already on the main roster, and they'll be looking to put either the IC or US belt on their replacement for Daniel Bryan almost immediately. Basically, he's off so won't mind losing this one clean.
*
Baron Corbin vs Austin Aires*
I've never hated Corbin, and I'm liking him more and more. We've known from day one that he's being protected and is gonna achieve great things - my guess is it's thanks to Vinnie Mac himself, due to Corbin's excessive pro-sports background. He's more than held his own at previous Takeovers, and proved to be more valuable to the company than Crews in London, and (on the back of an awesome promo on this week's NXT) I see him going over again tonite.
*
The Revival vs American Alpha*
Every man and his dog loves Jordan & Gable - me too, though I prefered their previous singlets, as they showed off their arses better. AA to win, no question, as I'm pretty sure Dash & Dawson will have an appointment to make on RAW this Monday.

*Bayley vs Asuka*
I'm gonna take a punt on this being the main event - it shouldn't be, as Balor and Joe have a long running feud, but as this is the only women's match on the card 'n' all... Watching Breaking Ground, it's clear that Bayley is viewed as more than another "women's division" diva/superstar, even more than a champion. They've had her booking matches, and Matt Bloom, I think, is prouder of her than of anyone else. Many have feared about how she'll be repackaged for the RAW crowd (Monday!), but I think she'll do more than alright for herself before ascending to one of those executive vice president positions.

*Finn Balor vs Samoa Joe*
Your would-be main event. Love both guys. It should be Joe's turn to shine, but one guy is moving up, no question, and Balor has made his views on that clear. Balor to win and retain, possibly via a fuck finish. Joe vs Lesnar thankyou please.

In the long run: Samoa Joe, Bayley, Dash & Dawson, Enzo & Cass to present their credentials this Monday.


----------



## elbows (Apr 3, 2016)

My only problem with the NXT show was that the card was so good on paper that I found it hard for the show to live up to expectations,the womens match suffered a bit from the crowd being tired after the previous bout, and the main event had blood-cleanup pacing issues. There were still 4 really great matches on the card though, and the Zayn-Nakamura match had everyone talking - just excellent.


----------



## felixthecat (Apr 21, 2016)

Did anyone see the announcement of the death of Chyna? Only 47 
Probably the greatest WWE female star


----------



## elbows (Apr 21, 2016)

Yes, although I thought she was a few years younger than that.

Sadly she is one of those former wrestlers who always seemed at risk of death since the end of her career. 

When I resumed watching WWF/E after missing everything from about 93-99, she was feuding with Jericho and I also enjoyed her 'romantic comedy' run with Eddie Guerrero. She was certainly one of their biggest female stars in terms of how many people saw her at her peak, because her biggest push coincided with the ultimate peak of Raw in the ratings, when the likes of Stone Cold and the Rock temporarily increased the wrestling audience well beyond its natural and subsequent size. She wasn't the best female wrestler they've had, not in any era, but her push was pretty unique and I was always sad that she seemed damaged and never quite recovered from what happened when she split from HHH.


----------



## elbows (Apr 21, 2016)

Balls Mahoney died recently too at no age.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 20, 2016)

The draft is complete. Oh dear 

I did fear NXT would be completely filleted, but I'm pleasantly surprised. Balor was always leaving, and wasn't surprised to see Alpha go (I'm a Revival guy so can live with it). Will miss Bliss on the mic. Neutral about Jax.

The best news though, we've actually got rid of Carmella and Mojo


----------



## bromley (Jul 25, 2016)

I love how everyone cares more about NXT than the main shows!


----------



## elbows (Jul 26, 2016)

That might change though, Raw was bloody great this week.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 26, 2016)

Right cheesed off that Raw and Smackdown aren't available on WWE Network until about three weeks after broadcast


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 27, 2016)

Hey, it took long enough to the get the network at all in this country due to the Murdoch deals!

I actually watched RAW pretty much in it's entirety for the first time tonite (they're always posted to YT, but zoomed in so as not to 'content match'). Finn, fuck me already you gorgeous creature  I admit I tired of him on NXT way back when he first should have been sent to the main roster (before/at/or after Dallas), but now that he's there I'm so happy to see him going all the way. Hell, even putting him over Owens - who should have been champion by now - I'm good with. Demon Balor to the moon, at least until Shinsuke Nakamura arrives.

...and Sasha (my second favourite wrestler, prior to the arrival of Nakamura) grabs the women's belt! Is she actually bonefide face now?

My biggest regret of the draft? Corey Graves (the best colour guy since Bobby Heenan) going to RAW instead of Smackdown. NXT is taped Mondays, which means he won't be available anymore 

Hoping for a number of the CWC guys turning up in NXT in the coming months (I actually expected NXT to be gutted for the draft, and for them to replace them - convienient timing and all). Kota Ibushi has done some tapings but has denied signing. Pay TJP whatever he wants, please, he's awesome.


----------



## elbows (Jul 27, 2016)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Hoping for a number of the CWC guys turning up in NXT in the coming months (I actually expected NXT to be gutted for the draft, and for them to replace them - convienient timing and all). Kota Ibushi has done some tapings but has denied signing. Pay TJP whatever he wants, please, he's awesome.



I think they announced the other week that Raw will have a cruiserweight division so its possible that many guys from the CWC tournament will bypass NXT and go straight to Raw.

Also pleased to hear that some ex-WWE wrestlers are returning for the 'new era' with Shelton Benjamin being the most notable example officially confirmed so far.


----------



## elbows (Jul 27, 2016)

Meanwhile in comedy drug test news, not only will Brock Lesnar escape WWE punishment for his UFC drug test failure, but apparently he is completely exempt from the WWE 'wellness policy' because he is only part-time.


----------



## bromley (Jul 27, 2016)

elbows said:


> Meanwhile in comedy drug test news, not only will Brock Lesnar escape WWE punishment for his UFC drug test failure, but apparently he is completely exempt from the WWE 'wellness policy' because he is only part-time.




I like Corey Graves as well. Raw was good, haven't watched Smackdown yet. bit annoyed with the McMahon family drama returning. I like the pre and post match interviews, although reigns was dull as ever the jobber 101 was entertaining! 

Rollins V Ballor will be great but I want to belt to be on Owens!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 7, 2016)

Phenomenal week away from RAW/Smackdown.

Ciampa v Gargano: MOTY contender. Absolutely vicious match between the tag team partners. To think pre-draft I was worried for the future of my beloved NXT; they have these two guys, Dash & Dawson, Joe, Nakamura, Aries, Roode. Holy shit, indeed!

...and then there's the English Gentleman, Jack Gallagher. A twisty-turny thing if ever there was one! Whoever eliminates him from the tournament is gonna get booed out of Florida.

Looking forward to Brooklyn (I'm on hols that week and will probably adjust to olympics-friendly time, so I may watch live), the card's looking fucking packed: -

Joe vs Nakamura
(Newly heel) Asuka vs Bailey
Revival vs Ciampa & Gargano
Aries vs José

Roode and Moon both have unfinalized matches, so I'm guessing my beloved Dillinger will be on job duty for Roode, and presumably Kay for Moon?


----------



## elbows (Aug 23, 2016)

As you easily predicted, NXT takeover Brooklyn 2 was a most excellent show, one that made Summerslam look weak by comparison on a number of fronts including crowd reaction, match quality and ring entrances.

Oh what a downer the terrible Summerslam injury nightmare was for Finn Balor and everyone who was happy to see Vince finally pushing a great worker as a star from day 1 on the main roster shows. Universal champ (shit title name) for only a day, now facing shoulder surgery  Given that Rollins injured Sting (twice in the same match) with the same sort of move I'd rather not see the move again from him unless its modified to reduce risk if possible.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 24, 2016)

Fucking sucks for Balor. Those years in Europe, his time in Japan and a considerable stint in the 'developmental' territory all pay off when, within weeks of appearing on Raw for the first time, he wins the hideous new belt ("Hey, we want some new belts!" ) at the second biggest show of the year (I think that's actually the Rumble, but I digress...) over the top guy in the company. Fucking fantastic, but, oh, he's gonna be out for six months!?  And of course Banks is out too, so it's presumably back to Rollins and Charlotte for business as usual! I really hope they just give Owens the belt - he's gonna have to have a good run with it at some point so it might as well be now. Of course, he's gonna look fucking silly decked out in black and white carrying that monstrosity over his shoulder. That was the only match I watched in full, I casually skipped through _most _of the show. Srsly, what the fuck was the end all about? New Jack Lesnar fails a drugs test or two so they need to reestablish him as a hard arse? I know I'm a pussy, and I don't like blood in wrestling at all, but THAT and on THIS show? I've never liked Orton, but supposedly he was practically in tears after that. Good on Jericho standing up to him afterwards.

*Just read that Balor's had the surgery now and supposedly everything went like clockwork. And good move showing the incident on TV, make clear that the really small guy by WWE's standards is a fucking hard bastard! 

As for Takeover, I thought the throwaway matches at the start were mostly terrible, but all three title matches were excellent, especially the tag match (yet another MOTY contender - we're having quite the run on these lately).

José v Aries - loved the conga at the start. Not bad in ring.
Moon v Kay - new gear and music for Kay, though I think her gimmick is still that she has long legs (dafuq?). Moon comes out all mysterious in a veil and with bright red eyes, then she does a little dance (again, df?)   Dreary wrestling followed by a ridiculously dangerous-looking finisher. Asuka will not be taking one of those.
Glorious theme song v Almas - The crowd quite rightly boo the luchador turned pimp, not forgetting his being put over my boy, Dillinger, in June. Why does he wear trousers over his full-length tights? Roode is a heel, apparently. There was some wrestling that I couldn't be forced to care about which finished with what was quite clearly a pumphandle slam. Big whoop.
Revival v Ciampa & Gargano - really expected to see the belts switch hands here. More classic old school grinding and skullduggery from Dash and Dawson. Getting sick of these endless "oh look, he/she is gonna turn" bits though. If they aren't gonna get the belts then they should be split up, they're both too good to be in a midcard tag team on NXT. This was D&D's fourth excellent Takeover match in a row.
Asuka v Bailey - people weren't hyped for this, but I thought it turned out to be a much better match than the Dallas one. Asuka is a total bad ass and she's undefeated, of course she's gonna win but the loss is hardly gonna be worn around Bailey's neck on Raw (I was actually expecting SD, but there you go).
Joe v Nakamura - OMG! OMG! OMG! Cool fucking entrance for SN and thought the action was great too. Have loved Joe's promos as champion but the belt HAD to go to the man who is very much the best thing in WWE. Peeps are expecting Joe to show up on Raw/SD now, but I'm no longer convinced that's the plan for him.


----------



## elbows (Aug 24, 2016)

Well there has been blood in rather a lot of the Lesnar matches since his original return. So I don't think this particular match had much to do with the drug test failure. The situation is a bit dangerous and absurd though because officially WWE doesn't allow blood or blading, so they have this pretence that the blood in Lesnar matches is an unplanned accident when usually it isn't. But that means people getting blood the hard-way, which is hardly safer than blading, especially when it's Lesnar opening up someone with his elbow. In some other ways Ortons health was actually protected earlier in the match, with suplex's executed in a manner that took into consideration Ortons history of shoulder and neck problems.

The altercation with Jericho, although beginning with Jerichos concern for Orton, only escalated due to bad timing and WWE restricting the info about whether that was the planned finish to very few individuals who were not forthcoming with Jericho when he first went to the gorilla position and asked. Apparently Lesnar came through the curtain at the wrong moment and misinterpreted Jericho saying bullshit in response to not being told what was going on. It does sound like Lesnar talked a lot of shit to Jericho in response and the way I saw it reported there was a hint that Lesnars comments included a lot of homophobic shit.

Having Orton lose in such a manner is just the latest instant failure to make Smackdown seem like a strong and equal brand. Many assumed WWE would drop the ball with the brand split again but in some ways its happening in record time this go around.

I too would not like to make any assumptions about whether Joe will ever be destined for the main roster.

Yeah Roode needs a better finisher. And yet another wrestler who is setup to be a heel in many respects, but the crowd want to cheer him and the entrance & music is total babyface stuff too, at least for now.

A big problem with the first Asuka Bailey match was that the crowd hadn't been conditioned to expect Asuka to win via that submission hold, so the crowd didn't see the climax coming. No such problems this time and good storytelling in the ring. Asuka matches still look a bit tricky to book though because the crowd have trouble buying her selling - not because it is crap but they seem to credit her with a level of invincibility that makes credible opposition a challenge.

Nakamura is god.


----------



## bromley (Aug 26, 2016)

Not liking these new belts and what Brock did to Orton.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 15, 2016)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Pay TJP whatever he wants, please, he's awesome.



Whoop whoop whoop!!!


----------



## elbows (Dec 31, 2016)

And so World of Sport returns to ITV today at 5pm lol. With Jim Ross announcing. It's being called a one-off but there are plenty of stories that it's a test and a proper comeback could follow if it does well. Not sure that will happen, especially since WWE announced a UK division, and I have no idea what to expect from tonights show but I am curious.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Dec 31, 2016)

I am watching.  And introducing the small one to it!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Dec 31, 2016)

TBH, it's boring the arse off me. Can't see the ratings justifying a full return. Who is it aimed at exactly?

Wish I'd saved the NXT Osaka show to watch tonite


----------



## bromley (Jan 5, 2017)

Aimed at families, WWE UK is in response to WOS. I thought the show was alright for what it was.

Can't stand having Goldberg back on TV.


----------



## elbows (Jan 6, 2017)

Apparently New Japan Pro Westlings Westle Kingdom 11 even featured one of the best pro wrestling matches ever - Kazuchika Okada v Kenny Omega. I've not watched it yet, trying to decide whether to wait for the US TV version that has Jim Ross on commentary that airs later in January before trying to get a copy.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 8, 2017)

Is Hulk Hogan still champ?

It's not what it used to be mid 90's to early 00's...


----------



## elbows (Jan 9, 2017)

cyril_smear said:


> Is Hulk Hogan still champ?
> 
> It's not what it used to be mid 90's to early 00's...



In terms of the big US promotions, there was a long slump after the death of WCW, a death which is in part the fault of Hogan & chums and the silly corporate reality that allowed them to get away with it for so long that the company died.

Mass mainstream popularity of wrestling has not returned since the slump that set in when WWE had no proper competition. It's not clear if or when it could go mainstream again to the extent that happened when, for example, Stone Cold Steve Austin captured a wider section of the publics imagination for a while.

However, for the hardcore wrestling fan recent years have seen a blossoming of a great new era, a welcome shift towards quality wrestling from a variety of promotions around the globe. Even WWE is having to face the fact that these days being able to work really well is so much more important than being large.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 15, 2017)

"Heeeeeey! Hey, Jesus! I wanna knooooooow, will you be my god?!"

I must now ask myself - do I watch this or Sherlock tonite?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 15, 2017)

elbows said:


> In terms of the big US promotions, there was a long slump after the death of WCW, a death which is in part the fault of Hogan & chums and the silly corporate reality that allowed them to get away with it for so long that the company died.
> 
> Mass mainstream popularity of wrestling has not returned since the slump that set in when WWE had no proper competition. It's not clear if or when it could go mainstream again to the extent that happened when, for example, Stone Cold Steve Austin captured a wider section of the publics imagination for a while.
> 
> However, for the hardcore wrestling fan recent years have seen a blossoming of a great new era, a welcome shift towards quality wrestling from a variety of promotions around the globe. Even WWE is having to face the fact that these days being able to work really well is so much more important than being large.


recon UFC will have had an impact on losing the audience? I know they have none of the theatrical storylines and are not flamboyant and, well choreographed but I could see the cross over appeal...


----------



## elbows (Jan 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> recon UFC will have had an impact on losing the audience? I know they have none of the theatrical storylines and are not flamboyant and, well choreographed but I could see the cross over appeal...



Yes the UFC is major competition for the WWE - WWE deny it but they have known it to be true for years now really.

I dont think it was a very big factor in the big slump I mentioned though. That was more due to a lot of WCW fans not switching to WWE when they bought WCW. And the inevitable cycles that wrestling endures in terms of reaching beyond its base in a big way, which usually happens when a wrestling star becomes a superstar eg Hogan, the Rock, Stone Cold. And WWE creative going stale which was partly due to a lack of competition and nowhere else significant for the wrestlers to threaten to go to if they were used badly by WWE. I doubt the number of premature deaths last decade helped either. But yeah I dont doubt that later erosion of audience involved UFC getting hot at just the point where WWE was stuck in a 'PG' era with John Cena as the main man. And more recently RAW becoming 3 hours long probably hasnt helped.


----------



## elbows (Jan 16, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> "Heeeeeey! Hey, Jesus! I wanna knooooooow, will you be my god?!"
> 
> I must now ask myself - do I watch this or Sherlock tonite?



That and the 'lets go Jesus, Jesus sucks' chants were quite something. Even Michael Cole wasnt too bad on commentary and Nigel McGuiness was excellent. Was the usual watered down WWE product in other ways though compared to what many of those wrestlers do elsewhere given more time & less limits. 

I suppose my ideal UK televised wrestling in 2017 would involve a blend of what we saw in the WWE UK tournament and the World of Sport revival - eg WoS had a broader talent pool with better promos but I hated the frequency of crowd shots and some other production aspects of that show. Actually that reminds me that I never finished watching it, must do that.

Apparently the World of Sport rating, while nothing special, was good enough that plans to do more TV shows are still alive.


----------



## elbows (Jan 16, 2017)

Although to be fair to the WWE UK thing, my comments about the matches being watered down applied more to the first night than the second. And the final was really very good.


----------



## bromley (Jan 17, 2017)

Looks like ICW will be on the WWE Network, this is huge news!

WWE went stale after the invasion angle (I hate thinking of how bad that was, and Bischoff coming out and hugging Vince.) I don't think there were many WCW or WWE fans with both just being fans of wrestling. The problem is when the product was good it attracted casual fans, nowadays I fast forward a lot of the show despite being a pretty hardcore (would go on wrestling related websites) fan during that time. They've had some great stars recently but have misused, this wouldn't have happened during the Monday Night Wars. 

I think the main shows are getting better, especially with Jericho and Owens but it's still 50/50 booking and fairly dull. 20 years of heel ownership?


----------



## elbows (Jan 17, 2017)

bromley said:


> WWE went stale after the invasion angle (I hate thinking of how bad that was, and Bischoff coming out and hugging Vince.) I don't think there were many WCW or WWE fans with both just being fans of wrestling.



Hard to believe that Vinces original plan involved ditching Raw and having Nitro as the Monday show after he purchased WCW. Given the limited number of WCW wrestlers they bought the contracts of, it was always going to be hard to do an invasion that felt somewhat realistic but they dropped the ball in so many more ways than that. Certainly a key moment in the downward trajectory.

Certainly there were many general Wrestling fans that watched both but especially in the USA there were fans who were very loyal to one or the other and considered the competing company to be crap. I suppose this was for many historical reasons such as lots of people in some parts of the country becoming WCW viewers as the old territories died. And the WWF being too cartoony for a lot of peoples tastes for a big chunk of the 80's and 90's. And some people, like my dad in the UK, followed certain former WWF stars when they jumped to WCW and never went back to WWE. I think the big thing missing from my previous comments was I didnt acknowledge just how many WCW fans stopped watching wrestling long before Vince bought WCW, because of how crap WCW became in its last years.



> I think the main shows are getting better, especially with Jericho and Owens but it's still 50/50 booking and fairly dull. 20 years of heel ownership?



Better in places for sure but I struggle to watch regularly due to how long Raw is and how much better the matches in NJPW are.

You have certainly hit the nail on the head in regards '20 years of heel ownership' - the heel authority figure as the centre of storylines is so far beyond stale and this is one thing that may not improve as Vince fades out of the picture because both Stephanie and Hunter appear to love putting themselves over on TV at the expense of getting the real talent over.


----------



## bromley (Jan 18, 2017)

elbows said:


> Hard to believe that Vinces original plan involved ditching Raw and having Nitro as the Monday show after he purchased WCW. Given the limited number of WCW wrestlers they bought the contracts of, it was always going to be hard to do an invasion that felt somewhat realistic but they dropped the ball in so many more ways than that. Certainly a key moment in the downward trajectory.
> 
> Certainly there were many general Wrestling fans that watched both but especially in the USA there were fans who were very loyal to one or the other and considered the competing company to be crap. I suppose this was for many historical reasons such as lots of people in some parts of the country becoming WCW viewers as the old territories died. And the WWF being too cartoony for a lot of peoples tastes for a big chunk of the 80's and 90's. And some people, like my dad in the UK, followed certain former WWF stars when they jumped to WCW and never went back to WWE. I think the big thing missing from my previous comments was I didnt acknowledge just how many WCW fans stopped watching wrestling long before Vince bought WCW, because of how crap WCW became in its last years.
> 
> ...


I can't believe that Vince would drop Raw, that show is basically family to him! I think the idea (I think we're both reciting 16 year old internet rumours) was to have a WCW and WWE brand competing against each other, which sounds familiar. 

On the contract front, DDP actually waved off his contract, which was nearly a year of guaranteed money, because like the fans he thought the angle would be huge (should've been the biggest one ever) and be financially better for him. As I was actually one of the few in the UK who would watch Nitro quite religiously on TNT/Bravo I managed to block out most of the invasion angle, but the Undertaker's then wife Sara actually pinned DDP on an episode of Raw. DDP could have easily been a main eventer in a brand split situation. It's like they didn't want it to draw money. Quite interesting which stars weren't interested in the angle and kept their contract, brother.

On the promotion loyalty, the show after Booker T and Buff main evented a Nitro on Raw and both got burred was in Atlanta, why didn't they do the Nitro show there? I imagine there is a large section of southern _raslin'_ fans who have left it forever now, unless AJ Styles has won some of them back! How crap WCW was under Russo is another thing I blocked out, although giving the big gold belts to Booker T and Scott Steiner were great moves. When Bischoff had it before the company's death he introduced a cruiserweight tag team title which I'm surprised hasn't been repeated, especially by TNA. Perhaps 205 live my use it, no doubt a woman's tag team title can't be far off now that they are being promoted as athletes and having great matches.

3 hour raw is just ridiculous! Nitro used to be 3 hours and the first hour literally nothing would happen apart from a really good cruiserweight match and recaps of the last week's main event, which I would usually miss as Raw's main events were usually superior. If it wasn't for Sky+ I would have given up with WWE a decade or so ago. Stephanie definitely loves to be the center of attention, not sure about hunter though, he isn't on screen that much and doesn't play the NXT authority figure, although he seems to be a face on that show and a heel on Raw! That said it's a joke that he main evented 'mania last year.


----------



## elbows (Jan 18, 2017)

The cynics think Hunter hasnt been on Raw much because he doesnt want to be associated with the shitty tv ratings they do during american football season.  Time will tell.

As for the 'WWF Nitro on Mondays' thing it wasnt just an internet rumour, it was well sourced stuff by proper wrestling journalists like Dave Meltzer. It does seem hard to believe, but Vince isnt always predictable and changes his mind a lot. One thing he has been consistent with is rarely respecting or favouring stars that were made outside WWE, so the angle would probably have been quickly doomed even if it had started off on a better footing.

The disaster that was Stone Cold turning heel was another factor I missed that drove off casual fans quickly, but that one was actually Stone Colds idea, what a mistake!


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## bromley (Jan 31, 2017)

I thought the rumble was pretty decent.


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## Nine Bob Note (Jan 31, 2017)

Good up until the Rumble itself.

NXT was v. good - loving the Aussie meangirls and their antics. Strong showing, even in defeat, for my boy Dillinger. Even AoP looked good. Not too hot for Roode though.


----------



## elbows (Feb 3, 2017)

elbows said:


> The cynics think Hunter hasnt been on Raw much because he doesnt want to be associated with the shitty tv ratings they do during american football season.  Time will tell.



lol what a surprise, he came back for one of the highest rated Raws of the year (the Raw's after the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania usually do the best ratings). 

Not sure where they will go with the storyline now that Seth Rollins hurt his knee again. Timescale for his return means he could still be back for a Wrestlemania match with Hunter but the timing will be very tight, not much wiggle room if healing takes a few weeks longer than hoped.


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## elbows (Feb 3, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Good up until the Rumble itself.
> 
> NXT was v. good - loving the Aussie meangirls and their antics. Strong showing, even in defeat, for my boy Dillinger. Even AoP looked good. Not too hot for Roode though.



I'm looking forward to NXT next week because Nigel McGuiness is starting on commentary. He was very good when commentating the UK show so I have high hopes.


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## bromley (Feb 6, 2017)

Does anyone here follow ICW?

Shame about Seth, but Joe delivered on what HHH wanted!


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## Nine Bob Note (Mar 18, 2017)

Well, the NXT women's belt has certainly been somewhat, err, tarnished...


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## bromley (Mar 19, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Well, the NXT women's belt has certainly been somewhat, err, tarnished...


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## Nine Bob Note (Mar 19, 2017)

I wouldn't like to be the one to tell Asuka


----------



## NoXion (Mar 19, 2017)

Are people still shitting on wrestling and saying "you know it's all staged right herf derf" as if they're conveying information that hasn't been common knowledge for at least two decades already?

Professional wrestling isn't something I follow myself, but I'm always suspicious of that kind of snobbery these days.


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## elbows (Mar 24, 2017)

There will always be some people like that but I dont bump into them very often (lucky me!).

I see that World of Sport is indeed coming back for an initial 10-episode run. Unfortunately its being run by the company that bought Impact (formerly TNA) so I have mixed feelings about the chances of a quality product. Still, I doubt it can be as badly run as TNA managed at various stages of its existence.

The rumours that WWE has expressed an interest in purchasing Ring of Honor are somewhat worrisome. Although I would personally benefit from having RoH tape library content available on the WWE network, its not good for the talent.


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## bromley (Mar 24, 2017)

Also WWE's eye on the UK scene is a concern.


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## Nine Bob Note (Apr 1, 2017)

*All three* NXT belts (well, four, if you wanna be pedantic) are being replaced tonite in an attempt to disguise the reason the existing women's belt in no longer fit for purpose


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2017)

bromley said:


> Also WWE's eye on the UK scene is a concern.



Yeah. I fear for any UK organisations that may not realise that in some ways this will be history repeating itself in terms of how WWE ate the territories in the 1980's.

Moves have already been made and there are some obvious ones this weekend - WWE has signed Jim Ross so that will keep him away from ITV. They've signed Drew Galloway as well.

Austin Aries match just starting on the pre-show now.


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## elbows (May 19, 2017)

WWE UK show featuring Jim Ross & Nigel McGuinness on commentary is on the network at 8pm today I think. 

Was very sad to hear about some very severe injuries in Japan in the last month or two, a couple of which were life & career-threatening brain and spinal injuries. I think Honma's spinal injury was one of those random things and he seems to be recovering very well. But Shibatas bleed on the brain was after one of those terrible stiff headbutts and I dont think he is doing so great, kinda lucky to be alive and conscious - even fans of Japanese 'strong style' will hopefully not want to see such headbutts in future.


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## Nine Bob Note (May 20, 2017)

Crowd: "TJ is a wanker, TJ is a wanker, na na na na..."
Jim Ross: "What's this wanker thing they're talking about?"

Good old JR


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## elbows (May 21, 2017)

Man the Bate v Dunn match on nxt takeover was especially great too, really won the crowd over bigtime.


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## Nine Bob Note (Sep 7, 2017)

Big changes in the wrestling world this week...

Double J has unofficially been fired by TNA/GFW, the new owners of which seem keen to sell up - presumably to WWE. I _really, REALLY_ anticipate Cornette's podcast tmoz.
Redneck arsehole, JBL, is gone, with Corey Graves, Nigel McGuinness and Vic Joseph all scoring themselves whopper promotions.
And, although we've known about it for weeks due to advance tapings, Asuka has formally surrendered the NXT women's title, ending the WWE's longest title reign for almost thirty years.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 7, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Big changes in the wrestling world this week...
> 
> Double J has unofficially been fired by TNA/GFW, the new owners of which seem keen to sell up - presumably to WWE. I _really, REALLY_ anticipate Cornette's podcast tmoz.
> Redneck arsehole, JBL, is gone, with Corey Graves, Nigel McGuinness and Vic Joseph all scoring themselves whopper promotions.
> And, although we've known about it for weeks due to advance tapings, Asuka has formally surrendered the NXT women's title, ending the WWE's longest title reign for almost thirty years.



Any news on whether she's going to Smackdown or RAW?

Would love it to be RAW, as I'm going to see it in Manchester in November, and I love Asuka!


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## cybershot (Sep 7, 2017)

Isn't she injured, hence the main reason for the title surrender.

Not a lot excites me about WWE at the moment, Kevin Owens being about the only guy that has constantly excelled since he joined the main roster. SummerSlam main event was better than I was expecting it to be.


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## Nine Bob Note (Sep 7, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> Any news on whether she's going to Smackdown or RAW?
> 
> Would love it to be RAW, as I'm going to see it in Manchester in November, and I love Asuka!



Personally, I'd favour Raw and I suspect the company will too. The only problem with that being that all the women she's had big takeover matches with are on Raw - all of them (Bayley, Nia, Mickey, Emma and Dana) and I'd love to see her paired with Charlotte.



cybershot said:


> Isn't she injured, hence the main reason for the title surrender.
> 
> Not a lot excites me about WWE at the moment, Kevin Owens being about the only guy that has constantly excelled since he joined the main roster. SummerSlam main event was better than I was expecting it to be.



It's a small injury for which they could have probably just kept out of the ring, they just used the opportunity to move her on.


----------



## bromley (Sep 7, 2017)

Asuka has also surpassed Goldberg's win streak. Seems likely there will be a women's royal rumble which she will debut and win. Alternatively a match against Rousey? Glad she didn't job the title.


----------



## elbows (Sep 7, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Big changes in the wrestling world this week...
> 
> Double J has unofficially been fired by TNA/GFW, the new owners of which seem keen to sell up - presumably to WWE. I _really, REALLY_ anticipate Cornette's podcast tmoz.
> Redneck arsehole, JBL, is gone, with Corey Graves, Nigel McGuinness and Vic Joseph all scoring themselves whopper promotions.
> And, although we've known about it for weeks due to advance tapings, Asuka has formally surrendered the NXT women's title, ending the WWE's longest title reign for almost thirty years.



Good riddance to JBL, not just a bully in his own right (which he is) but also a bully on behalf of Vince McMahon and the toxic power games that have long been a part of working for that company.

If WWE buy TNA it will almost certainly be just for the tape library (and the broken hardys gimmick, yay) and the promotion itself will be killed. The only reason I wouldnt want to see it die is lots of people losing jobs, but its been such a hopeless case that seem to cannot get in tune with the forms of wrestling that have thrived in recent years, or find any way to make money. So it seems kinder to let it die one of these days.

Personally I cant quite stomach the main WWE shows often these days and prefer to lurk on the fringes with some NXT (mostly just the takeover shows and dipping my toe in the weekly stuff on fairly rare occasion to get a sense of the matches building) and things like the cruiserweight and uk tournaments. So I'm watching the Mae Young classic. I reckon it shows quite some promise but like their cruiserweight tournament suffers a little in the first round due to the presence of a few too many green wrestlers. Apparently one match even had the finish changed during the match because the person who was going to win was stinking things up too much in the ring. I believe they shot an angle with Rousey on that show which I havent seen yet, since Rousey & co were in the audience due to Shayner Baszler participating in the tournament. I forgot the details but if Im remembering at all right they have rivalry between female factions to play on with this.

Asuka has been so great, a joy to watch most of that streak (I think I missed a few matches somewhere along the way). I always worry about how talent will do on the main roster, since these days Vince & Co can even mess up potential stars that it seems difficult to fail with, somehow they find a way.


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## elbows (Sep 7, 2017)

Also note that WWE completely took their foot of the pedal in terms of UK efforts once it became clear the World Of Sport thing was not happening. Plus they are probably into cutting network costs again because their unrealistic hopes for quite how many millions of subscribers they would get by this stage after network launch are further proved invalid, so why spend the money doing a regular uk show when they arent feeling insecure about the uk so much now. (insecurity that stemmed from a potential rival with terrestrial tv time looming large on the horizon).


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## bromley (Sep 8, 2017)

elbows said:


> Good riddance to JBL, not just a bully in his own right (which he is) but also a bully on behalf of Vince McMahon and the toxic power games that have long been a part of working for that company.
> 
> If WWE buy TNA it will almost certainly be just for the tape library (and the broken hardys gimmick, yay) and the promotion itself will be killed. The only reason I wouldnt want to see it die is lots of people losing jobs, but its been such a hopeless case that seem to cannot get in tune with the forms of wrestling that have thrived in recent years, or find any way to make money. So it seems kinder to let it die one of these days.
> 
> ...


The thing I worry about is there's a great conveyor belt of talent coming through from NXT but where's the room for them in the main roster?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 9, 2017)

elbows said:


> Also note that WWE completely took their foot of the pedal in terms of UK efforts once it became clear the World Of Sport thing was not happening. Plus they are probably into cutting network costs again because their unrealistic hopes for quite how many millions of subscribers they would get by this stage after network launch are further proved invalid, so why spend the money doing a regular uk show when they arent feeling insecure about the uk so much now. (insecurity that stemmed from a potential rival with terrestrial tv time looming large on the horizon).



I'm not sure it's dead or cancelled along with all the other network stuff, I just don't think they'd thought terribly hard about what they actually wanted. I think Triple H and Regal probably want it more than just about anything else right now - old man Vince won't know it, but it's the best they've got to counter anything coming out of Japan. I must say, I think a weekly show is too adventurous - the top talent all have deals with multiple promotions and can't commit to being fulltime WWE (despite the Internet commentators cries of "Oh, they should just be in NXT" - yeah, why the fuck would they want that?). A monthly mini-PPV style show, maybe ninety minutes-two hours long, four or five matches (much like the last UK special they did), British Strong Style plus other local guys and a few WWE guys who aren't doing much, in small venues, Tripers' people flying over between NXT tapings for the production, I can still see working - should almost pay for itself.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 9, 2017)

bromley said:


> The thing I worry about is there's a great conveyor belt of talent coming through from NXT but where's the room for them in the main roster?



Well, McMahon is gonna be on SD this Tuesday, and I suspect it's related to a roster shakeup - potentially a big one, as the tag and womens divisions on both brands are shot to shit. From NXT I see immediate transfers (I'm not calling them "call ups" because they are not soldiers, and they are arguably going to have a shitter time of it on Raw/SD, albeit with more money) for the Authors of Pain (I don't believe they were anywhere near this months NXT tapings), Hideo Itami (who has been jobbed out so much he no longer serves a purpose on NXT, and unless he gets a big payrise soon will surely go back to Japan) and the Iconic Duo and Ember Moon (presumably to SD, where the women's belt is currently treated as a pass-the-parcel). I've commented on Asuka previously, and still believe she is Raw-bound. I would not rule out the likes of No Way Jose, Alisteir Black and Andrade Almas moving aswell, especially if others are gonna get shit-canned.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 9, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I'm not sure it's dead or cancelled along with all the other network stuff, I just don't think they'd thought terribly hard about what they actually wanted. I think Triple H and Regal probably want it more than just about anything else right now - old man Vince won't know it, but it's the best they've got to counter anything coming out of Japan. I must say, I think a weekly show is too adventurous - the top talent all have deals with multiple promotions and can't commit to being fulltime WWE (despite the Internet commentators cries of "Oh, they should just be in NXT" - yeah, why the fuck would they want that?). A monthly mini-PPV style show, maybe ninety minutes-two hours long, four or five matches (much like the last UK special they did), British Strong Style plus other local guys and a few WWE guys who aren't doing much, in small venues, Tripers' people flying over between NXT tapings for the production, I can still see working - should almost pay for itself.



The thing is, they could make money from this if they did it right. Real UK wrestling fans don't care about pyros etc, running shows out of venues similar to the Blackpool event, they don't need to be huge, and with minimal staff to setup, fans would go and see it. Commentary could be added post production. If the matches are of a top quality then that's all that matters. Like you say, even if it's once a month, it's enough.

WWE seem to be going on a cost cutting exercise again, which is a problem of their own making by separating up the brands again. I see why they did it, and still think it's needed.

Network subs are down, ratings are at a low, and frankly it's because there's no decent competition. WWE are their own worst enemy. 

I'd rather still see only one PPV a month to be honest, alternating brands and actually giving storylines a chance to develop.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 18, 2017)

Bobby Heenan has sadly passed away.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 18, 2017)




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## elbows (Sep 20, 2017)

RIP Bobby Heenan, you made my first years of watching WWF in the late 80's and early 90's so much more entertaining, I dont know if I'd even have got hooked on it at the time without your humour.

McMahon is a fucking idiot for taking a stiff headbutt on that SmackDown show, especially in 2017 when its so much harder to plead ignorance about head injuries. And especially considering this is the year Shibata suffered bleeding on the brain and the end of his career after delivering one of his stiff headbutts in New Japan.

Then again it is hardly a newsflash that McMahon is out of touch with the times and ignores his own rules about blood when it suits. Apparently his memory is already quite bad, and his quirks and dodgy judgements already stink up the main brand shows a lot, and really I just want this period of McMahon decline out of the way. He lost his magic touch long ago and its so much harder to think of him as a wrestling promotion genius this century than when he was driven to build an empire in the 80's and knew how to run with what talent he was gifted in the attitude era.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 31, 2017)

Seems Global Impact Tits 'n' Arse Force are taking the Fight Network down with them. Fuckers just fired the entire LAW team


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 31, 2017)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 31, 2017)

Oh ignore him. He's spent the past year on Twitter _slightly _pretending to be gay* this is the Troll King's latest bit (it's wrongly been speculated today that the Good Brothers have updated their social media bios to suggest they are about to quit Vince Co)

*Devitt not Camomile


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 31, 2017)

Yeah, having poked around a bit*, that looks the general consensus.

Bloody wind up merchant  

*fnar


----------



## elbows (Nov 19, 2017)

NXT Takeover was rather entertaining again.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 19, 2017)

elbows said:


> NXT Takeover was rather entertaining again.


Black vs Dream and the women's title match were the highlights of a very good card.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Black vs Dream and the women's title match were the highlights of a very good card.



I thought the womens match was rushed a little bit but it was still good. No argument from me about the Black vs Dream match, though there were some spots in war games that made that match highly entertaining for me too. I probably would have enjoyed the Almas vs McIntyre match more if McIntyre hadn't got injured at the end and I knew it before watching so was sad on his behalf.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 20, 2017)

elbows said:


> I thought the womens match was rushed a little bit but it was still good. No argument from me about the Black vs Dream match, though there were some spots in war games that made that match highly entertaining for me too. I probably would have enjoyed the Almas vs McIntyre match more if McIntyre hadn't got injured at the end and I knew it before watching so was sad on his behalf.


I'd agree the women's match was rushed, but they fit a lot in and everyone looked good.

And yeah, properly sucks for Drew, given how hard he's worked to get back and has already had a nasty injury while still in the indies.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 20, 2017)

NXT seems to be a far better product than the main WWE roster these days, I'm not sure I'd want the call up to the main roster if I was on NXT.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2017)

cybershot said:


> NXT seems to be a far better product than the main WWE roster these days, I'm not sure I'd want the call up to the main roster if I was on NXT.



Yeah. I'd want the pay and the audience size, but not the shit booking and the insane ideas about how to get someone over on the main roster.

I mean seriously, we are talking about a company that thought the lesson to be learned from Daniel Bryan getting over is to repeatedly beat babyfaces all the time. And then blame them when they don't get over. Or indulge in 50-50 booking where nobody gets over. They even managed to ruin Bailey. 

NXT is great because the show is nice and short, they keep things simple, McMahons aren't all over the show making the talent play 2nd fiddle, and people are allowed to go on winning streaks.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2017)

Although to be more kind, there is quite a list of talent that have done well on the main roster that I wouldn't have expected to be allowed to, or in some cases even get hired at all, 5+ years ago. Strowman, Rude, Owens, Styles, Joe etc. Sadly for me this just makes me even more infuriated when the booking is shit, at the length of Raw, and the quality of many PPV matches compared to NXT and New Japan big shows. 

I might bother to watch the Lesnar Styles match from Survivor Series but it sounds like they fucked up the booking of the main raw-smackdown mens survivors series match something fierce.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2017)

And I will say I'm glad we made it to an era where large wrestlers fighting big man battles is popular again, with the important distinction that many of them can actually work a really good match these days. Not like a previous shit WWE/F era where being tall and roided up to the eyeballs was enough, never mind the match quality.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 20, 2017)

I’m watching survivor series now and on Match 4. Every match has been great so far. This is what happens when all the top talent can shine. Brand split was a bad idea.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 20, 2017)

cybershot said:


> I’m watching survivor series now and on Match 4. Every match has been great so far. This is what happens when all the top talent can shine.


Everything bar the two traditional Survivor matches are good. The women's match is well-worked but oddly booked - completely missing out on the chance to tell some good stories - and the men's match is... well, it's what you can expect from Vince.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 20, 2017)

elbows said:


> And I will say I'm glad we made it to an era where large wrestlers fighting big man battles is popular again, with the important distinction that many of them can actually work a really good match these days. Not like a previous shit WWE/F era where being tall and roided up to the eyeballs was enough, never mind the match quality.



If they don’t do lesnar vs strowman for wrestle mania they are idiots.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 21, 2017)

*D. R. E. A. M.*

Paige on Raw along with Sonya Deville and Mandy Rose (random). Expect Tuesday nights to look a little more Iconic from tonight onwards...


----------



## elbows (Nov 21, 2017)

cybershot said:


> If they don’t do lesnar vs strowman for wrestle mania they are idiots.



Think its still supposed to be Reigns vs Lesnar. 

Plans do change (eg it was supposed to be Balor v Lesnar for Royal Rumble but Vince has now lost faith in Balor) but they are very stubborn when it comes to Reigns.

Also hasn't there already been a Strowman vs Lesnar match that wasn't all that great? Strowman is a strange one, he has gotten over big time but doesn't seem to be at a level where he can have a good match with everyone yet, he needs the right opponent.

I've heard Angle vs HHH and Strowman vs HHH are planned but having seen how easily Angle and HHH end up looking a bit old/beaten up these days I'm not sure how much these matches appeal to me right now either.

Hope to be wrong about some of these things!


----------



## cybershot (Nov 21, 2017)

I get the impression the shield reunion was only done to assist getting Reigns over.

He's got better over the past 12 months, but I'd rather see more exciting talent get a chance. Strowman at least as well would have a more believable match in losing to someone like Balor down the line. imo.

Not watched RAW but it sounded like one of the better ones for a while. More women coming in surely means a women's Royal Rumble in Jan as well, thou one would assume less contenders and possibly only 1 minute between each entrant. 30 mins tops would be acceptable.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 22, 2017)

I went to RAW in Manchester the other week. It was great, the highlight for me was the Bruiserweight Pete Dunne! 

Haven't caught up on Survivor Series, except for seeing a gif of Triple H walking into the screen by mistake


----------



## cybershot (Nov 22, 2017)

More NXT women on Smackdown last night so I think a women's Royal Rumble is now a cert.

Dunne is fantastic, him and a few others had a tag team dark match on Smackdown last night.

Rumours are back in motion about a weekly UK show.


----------



## bromley (Nov 22, 2017)

Meanwhile in Scotland Fear and Loathing X was decent.


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Dunne is fantastic, him and a few others had a tag team dark match on Smackdown last night.



Sounds like Dunne vs Gargano was the NXT main event this week, I haven't watched it yet. Apparently half the show is skippable as there is a lot of TakeOver recap.


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2017)

cybershot said:


> More NXT women on Smackdown last night so I think a women's Royal Rumble is now a cert.



My only problem with that idea is that its hard to get out of my head all the memories of awful womens battle royal filler matches, featuring some women who couldn't really wrestle, that WWE used to do. Im happy times have changed, but it will take a while for those memories to fade!


----------



## cybershot (Nov 23, 2017)

elbows said:


> My only problem with that idea is that its hard to get out of my head all the memories of awful womens battle royal filler matches, featuring some women who couldn't really wrestle, that WWE used to do. Im happy times have changed, but it will take a while for those memories to fade!



I suspect it will get rushed, but now things like MITB have been done, i think it's expected!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2017)




----------



## elbows (Dec 3, 2017)

We are finally about to find out whether the WWE version of broken Matt Hardy is any good.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 3, 2017)

It’s ‘woken’


----------



## cybershot (Dec 3, 2017)

Also see Jim Johnston got released. Shouldn’t that guy be on the payroll for life for his contribution to many a great entrance theme. Pretty much made them all.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 4, 2017)

I'm half tempted by the Jericho Rock N Wrestling cruise, but cabins look tiny (unless you go uber expensive) to share, and prices as a single person are way too steep!


----------



## elbows (Dec 4, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Also see Jim Johnston got released. Shouldn’t that guy be on the payroll for life for his contribution to many a great entrance theme. Pretty much made them all.



He certainly made a lot of them up until recent years, but they haven't used him much the last few years and I like quite a few of the ones his successors have done (eg Nakamura, Roode). As for jobs for life, Vinces dad believed in that sort of thing but Vince mostly doesn't.


----------



## elbows (Dec 5, 2017)

I was wondering if my nephew would get into watching wrestling at some point, but I didn't want to introduce him to it for fear of getting the blame for any injuries to himself or others. Well now it turns out he must have started watching some early-evening WWE highlights program because at the weekend he knew who John Cena was, was impressed that I knew Braun Strowman had been thrown in a rubbish truck. He then proceeded to pummel me with elbow drops including one right to my eye, ouch!

At his age all I had World of Sport!


----------



## elbows (Dec 5, 2017)

cybershot said:


> It’s ‘woken’



Seems to be going OK so far


----------



## cybershot (Dec 10, 2017)

Looks like RIch Swann has gone batshit crazy. There goes his career.

WWE Superstar Rich Swann Arrested for Battery, Kidnapping


----------



## elbows (Dec 19, 2017)

cybershot said:


> More NXT women on Smackdown last night so I think a women's Royal Rumble is now a cert.



Womens Royal Rumble now confirmed.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 19, 2017)

elbows said:


> Womens Royal Rumble now confirmed.



I hope we get some legends come out the woodwork, like we sometimes get with the mens, although was none last year.

Also hope it's a 1 min gap between each entrant, otherwise it's going to be a very long night watching rumbles!

Main event is a no brainer, Kane takes the pinfall to Lesnar. Was hoping a Reigns Rumble win wouldn't happen as would be too obvious, but unless creative can somehow come up with a story line for him and Lesnar before WM, I'm now thinking it's their only option. Otherwise would like to see Nakumura win Rumble and set up a match with AJ.


----------



## elbows (Dec 19, 2017)

cybershot said:


> I hope we get some legends come out the woodwork, like we sometimes get with the mens, although was none last year.



Given all the Ronda Rousey Wrestlemania rumours, they could also use the Rumble to bring her in and set her up for a championship match.


----------



## elbows (Jan 4, 2018)

I finally signed up to New Japan World and am watching some of the WrestleKingdom PPV live (I missed quite a few hours and have tuned in during the Tanahashi match)


----------



## cybershot (Jan 6, 2018)

elbows said:


> I finally signed up to New Japan World and am watching some of the WrestleKingdom PPV live (I missed quite a few hours and have tuned in during the Tanahashi match)



Watching this today. Every match has been brilliant, and I like the way it just moved on to next match pretty quickly without a load of BS inbetween, WWE need to do more.

At 47 Jericho just had one of the best matches of his career, and well, If I'm watching NJPW (only 2nd time, Omega and Okada at Dominion 6.11 being the other) the he is doing his job. 

The hard part is keeping up with what is going on in NJPW.


----------



## elbows (Jan 6, 2018)

Yeah, I loved the matches I saw and am about to watch the ones I missed.

Apart from the exceptional quality of so many NJPW matches in recent years, what I like best about that promotion is the variety on offer - WWE has a standard match template that makes everything too samey, especially when coupled with overly scripted promos. In NJPW there are so many different sorts of matches on a card that even the long shows fly by, fun!

I've not tried to fully keep up with that promotions programs all year before, I will give that a try now that I have a subscription. I've mostly just watched a few of the January shows in the past. I'm kinda looking forward to the challenge of keeping up with the G1 tournament!

Also, I love Minoru Suzuki.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 12, 2018)

Aaaaaaaaaand, one botchy move sees Paige bow out for the last time. Fuck's sake. She's been back like six weeks


----------



## cybershot (Jan 13, 2018)

Saw that late last night. One of about only 3 decent mic workers in the women’s division as well. 

Despite what anyone may think of her as a person she’s had a turbulent past 18 months and recent interview said she’d contemplated suicide so hope she’s got the right people and support around her at the moment because this is probably the worst news out the lot.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 26, 2018)

I'm in a strange mood, so will communicate entirely in bullet points: -

· CW champion, Amore fired for not informing the fed of a rape allegation against him. New GM to be appointed to try and distract/stabilise the rapidly sinking brand. My money/hopes on Goldust in full gimmick with a resplendent golden office. Matt Hardy, fresh from his defeat by Wyatt is also a contender.

· Miz the most over guy on Raw after Strowman. Thrown into the back of a taxi after his historic win over Reigns to go and try to molify the very angry Manhattan Center crowd.

· Cena puts over the Drifter as Bayley, Nakamura and Balor presumably contemplate their futures.

· My boys, Dash and Dawson, straight from a career-defining promo last week, buried by a bunch of alcoholic/meth-head pensioners. Tripers ain't getting a pass for this.

· Vinnie Mac relaunching the XFL with money he made from selling shares. Suddenly all those Network cuts make sense.

· Rumble this Sunday. For the women, if Rousey is in the match she wins, if not, Asuka does. Bliss will lose the Raw belt to Jax in the coming weeks. For the men, assuming it's Reigns v Lesnar headlining Mania - and Reigns ain't winning the Rumble - it has to be a Smackdown guy. Nakamura is the obvious choice, but I've a really strong feeling it's gonna be Ziggler or Corbin. Balor winning and opting for the WWE Championship belt is a possiblity - SD is in the toilet right now and could use him, but Raw cannot afford to lose Gallows & Anderson.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 26, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I'm in a strange mood, so will communicate entirely in bullet points: -
> 
> · CW champion, Amore fired for not informing the fed of a rape allegation against him. New GM to be appointed to try and distract/stabilise the rapidly sinking brand. My money/hopes on Goldust in full gimmick with a resplendent golden office. Matt Hardy, fresh from his defeat by Wyatt is also a contender.
> 
> ...



Nice summary. The whole thing has gone shit since the brand split.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 26, 2018)

I felt the brand split was needed at the time.

Potentially still do.

I'd prefer one PPV a month thou, just alternate between the two and build up storylines longer and better. Part of the main problem is creative's fault, The writing is poor.

The RAW 25th was good, but yes, more should have been done at Manhatten Center. I was sure I read the miz vs reigns was supposed to happen there.

Miz is on fire at the moment and his matches over the past 12 months have got better and better. Would prefer him without people at ringside, he's the closest thing to Flair, since Flair. not bad for the guy that got kicked out the locker room. Easily the best heel on the roster. Apparently he will be facing Brawn at WM. However his baby is also due WrestleMania weekend!!


----------



## cybershot (Jan 26, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Looks like RIch Swann has gone batshit crazy. There goes his career.
> 
> WWE Superstar Rich Swann Arrested for Battery, Kidnapping



Charges dropped

Rich Swann Kidnapping, Battery Charges Dropped Due to Insufficient Evidence


----------



## cybershot (Jan 30, 2018)

Enjoyed the Rumble. Think they got both winners right (well that's what I predicted beforehand)

Women's rumble was great fun with the mixture.

Interesting to see what they do with Rousey. Can't imagine they put her in a title picture too soon, it would probably put the cat among the pigeons after how hard some of the others have worked over the past several years to get the women's division where it is.

Who'd have thought WWE would be a torch bearer for women's rights/empowerment.


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2018)

The Rumble show was easily fun enough to keep me interested, and I think a lot of people presumed Rousey would be in it when the mens Rumble went on early in the show. I think one of the reasons she didnt end up actually being in the match is that since the Rock got injured doing a one off wrestlemania match, messing up the schedule for a film he was shooting, there are insurance problems when it comes to shooting films and wrestling at the same time. No idea how ready she is for pro-wrestling, will be a while till we find out. Nice to see her 'Rowdy Ronda Rousey' origins acknowledged via her Roddy Piper tribute wardrobe.

I did laugh when the crowd chanted 'you've still got it' at Lita immediately after she nearly killed herself & several competitors with a dodgy moonsault. I was a fan of hers back when she was a full-time competitor but she shot up to the top of my list of scary moments in wrestling after the time she took a dive outside the ring and ended up landing on her head and bending in a way that I took to mean certain doom at the time. From that moment on it was hard to watch her without being scared for her so I was sort of relieved when she retired.

It was nice to see other female stars from another era in the Rumble, I dont think some of them got enough credit for how great they were, at least not when WWE was rewriting history to fit its 'womens revolution' rhetoric. eg Molly Holly. And nice to see the Mickie James-Trish Stratus rivalry acknowledged and briefly reignited.

I know its pretty redundant of me to go on about NXT TakeOver being great again, since I dont think there has ever been a bad TakeOver. There were a couple of matches that were not great but some others were excellent. The only match I havent watched from it so far is the main event, which I have heard described as a contender for WWE match of the year already.

I dont think I recommend the bump onto two chairs placed back-to-back that Adam Cole took!


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2018)

It was also lovely to see Rey Mysterio looking great and not, err, 'overinflated'. Apparently it was a one off deal for him to appear at the Rumble but he looked so good and got such a good reaction that they are bound to want him back for more.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 30, 2018)

I still need to watch NXT.

Banks took a bad bump last night! 



Spoiler: putting in spoiler tags purely because it's not nice to watch on autoplay


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 30, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I still need to watch NXT.
> 
> Banks took a bad bump last night!
> 
> ...


I don't know the outcome, but looking at it I swear I've seen her take worse? It looks like she lands mostly on her shoulder/arm, rather than her head which we've seen her do more than once.

Still wouldn't want to do it myself, mind.

And yes, very good weekend of wrestling from WWE.

Shows the _can_ do it


----------



## bromley (Jan 30, 2018)

Raw 25 was dreadful, Rumble was great. I hope that one day there will be a cruiserweight rumble!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 30, 2018)

This looks worse than the suicide dive


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2018)

Oh yeah I forgot to say that I bet Braun Strowman learnt a lesson. The lesson being that if you give Lesnar a hard knee to the head that he doesnt like, he will punch you hard in the side of your head. And then WWE will show slow-motion replays of the punch.

Ouch all round.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 30, 2018)

Yeah, that was brutal. Strowman proper stumbled after that (rather than just collapsing into a pile of rubble, like any normal human would). Poor bastard


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2018)

I'm not a big fan of real bullies in the ring and deliberately hitting your opponent. Although the one time I condoned it also involved Lesnar...

Bob Holly could be an absolute shit to certain people in the ring, and once delivered quite a nasty beating to someone (from Tough Enough maybe) in the ring. One time he wasnt co-operating when Brock was trying to lift him for a move, he deadweighted Brock. So Brock decided fuck this and just dropped him straight on his head & neck. I dont remember if that ended Hollys career but I think it might have.

JBL was another shithead bully, especially behind the scenes. I seem to remember a nasty incident where he mauled the Blue Meanie at a WWE ECW-themed show.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 30, 2018)

Brock’s a shit when he does this thou. Accidents happen. Every now and then a stiff one may happen. He needs to be a pro and not just take it back out. 

Fair play to Braun for keeping his cool. It could have kicked right off.


----------



## elbows (Jan 30, 2018)

Yeah I havent been very clear with my words - Brock is on my list of shits for this sort of thing. There are other wrestlers who sometimes lose their cool and do unprofessional things when something goes wrong, but its so much worse when you actually set out to hurt someone. Randy Orton has lost his temper and been unprofessional on several occasions if I remember correctly, including a time he punched the mat in anger and injured himself, but I dont remember him taking it out on anyone else physically.

That Bob Holly-Lesnar story I just told might be a bit wrong. Because I just watched footage of it and its far from clear that Holly was deliberately sandbagging.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 30, 2018)

I don’t think holly even had the chance to sandbag there. It all happened to quick. They did the sequence again as smack down was taped at the time but it wasn’t edited. It’s just a bad botch imo.


----------



## bromley (Jan 31, 2018)

elbows said:


> I'm not a big fan of real bullies in the ring and deliberately hitting your opponent. Although the one time I condoned it also involved Lesnar...
> 
> Bob Holly could be an absolute shit to certain people in the ring, and once delivered quite a nasty beating to someone (from Tough Enough maybe) in the ring. One time he wasnt co-operating when Brock was trying to lift him for a move, he deadweighted Brock. So Brock decided fuck this and just dropped him straight on his head & neck. I dont remember if that ended Hollys career but I think it might have.
> 
> JBL was another shithead bully, especially behind the scenes. I seem to remember a nasty incident where he mauled the Blue Meanie at a WWE ECW-themed show.


Joey Styles Knocked out the goosesteeping bully JBL! 

The suicide dive was worse than the knee. Surprised nothing has been mentioned of the flying arse out of the ring. Incredible match but some spots weren't needed and why have it on Raw with no build up? The women's division is small, as you can see from the amount of surprised entrants in the rumble. Try and save some of the dream matches for PPV.


----------



## elbows (Jan 31, 2018)

bromley said:


> Joey Styles Knocked out the goosesteeping bully JBL!
> 
> The suicide dive was worse than the knee. Surprised nothing has been mentioned of the flying arse out of the ring. Incredible match but some spots weren't needed and why have it on Raw with no build up? The women's division is small, as you can see from the amount of surprised entrants in the rumble. Try and save some of the dream matches for PPV.



Dives through the ropes always scare me, as we saw with that incident your feet only have to connect a little with the ropes to throw the whole thing into dangerous territory.

As for matches on Raw with no build-up and not saving dream matches for PPV, one of the problems with the current era is that the nature of the business is so very different now for companies like WWE. All those decades of actually having to properly promote matches to get bums on seats and sell pay-per-views dont mean much now. Vast amounts of their revenue comes from tv deals, and so they do things to chase that money, even if it gradually reduces their audience. eg 3 hour Raws, everyone knows a 2 hour show would be better but the tv station want 3 hours so we are stuck with badly paced Raws. And although the wwe network is a revenue source, they've stopped thinking of things like PPV buys. They are far more bothered by how many subscribers they can announce to their shareholders, so they do crazy stuff like offering free network trials during the period of the year (wrestlemania season) where they could arguably get more people to actually pay for the network at this time of year than at other times.


----------



## elbows (Jan 31, 2018)

bromley said:


> Joey Styles Knocked out the goosesteeping bully JBL!



I remember being overjoyed when I heard that story.

Makes me fucking sick when the WWE do one of their anti-bullying campaigns. JBL wasnt just a bully, some of his bullying was actually him doing Vince's dirty work, and that continued with him on commentary until he was eventually quietly removed some months after the story about him harming Mauro Ranallo's mental health emerged.


----------



## bromley (Jan 31, 2018)

elbows said:


> I remember being overjoyed when I heard that story.
> 
> Makes me fucking sick when the WWE do one of their anti-bullying campaigns. JBL wasnt just a bully, some of his bullying was actually him doing Vince's dirty work, and that continued with him on commentary until he was eventually quietly removed some months after the story about him harming Mauro Ranallo's mental health emerged.


Maurice Ranallo who Bas Rutten considers one of his best friends!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 5, 2018)

elbows said:


> I'm not a big fan of real bullies in the ring and deliberately hitting your opponent. Although the one time I condoned it also involved Lesnar...
> 
> Bob Holly could be an absolute shit to certain people in the ring, and once delivered quite a nasty beating to someone (from Tough Enough maybe) in the ring. One time he wasnt co-operating when Brock was trying to lift him for a move, he deadweighted Brock. So Brock decided fuck this and just dropped him straight on his head & neck. I dont remember if that ended Hollys career but I think it might have.
> 
> JBL was another shithead bully, especially behind the scenes. I seem to remember a nasty incident where he mauled the Blue Meanie at a WWE ECW-themed show.



Remember Lesnar opening Orton's head with his elbow cos he was sandbagging the suplex's


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Remember Lesnar opening Orton's head with his elbow cos he was sandbagging the suplex's



Again, I don't think any Sandbagging was going on there. Orton went into that match trusting Lesnar enough to how it was going to finish, so I don't see why he would do that. Is Lesnar wanted to chuck Orton half way across the ring he would have.


----------



## elbows (Feb 5, 2018)

I saw a lot of people on twitter moaning about some 5 star wrestling show that got on some free uk sports tv channel at the weekend. I have not investigated what this was or how shit it was, people seemed to be moaning about all the wrestlers having the same intro music, the large building being almost completely empty, and something about prior antics of this promotion cancelling a show and blaming terror attacks.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2018)

elbows said:


> I saw a lot of people on twitter moaning about some 5 star wrestling show that got on some free uk sports tv channel at the weekend. I have not investigated what this was or how shit it was, people seemed to be moaning about all the wrestlers having the same intro music, the large building being almost completely empty, and something about prior antics of this promotion cancelling a show and blaming terror attacks.



They had rather a large list of well known ex top performers. The usual *performers subject to the change disclaimer. It all seemed a bit too fishy. If you're going to put wrestling on a free to air channel, why not just try and tie in with one of the many thriving UK promotions that already exist.


----------



## elbows (Feb 5, 2018)

cybershot said:


> They had rather a large list of well known ex top performers. The usual *performers subject to the change disclaimer. It all seemed a bit too fishy. If you're going to put wrestling on a free to air channel, why not just try and tie in with one of the many thriving UK promotions that already exist.



I dunno about fishy, since it sounds like the names were actually there, but grubby in other respects for sure. Sounds like it is every Thursday, so I was wrong to say it was a weekend show.

As for why we get deals with weird promotions instead of ones that are successful over a long period of time with homegrown uk talent, I assume there is plenty of crap business politics involved and when it comes to tv thats two shit worlds colliding. It sounds like FreeSports and PCW had some kind of agreement last year, at least PCW thought so, but in the end FreeSports went with 5 star.

I've not see any of it but I can see why people were crying for them to tighten the ropes, jesus.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 5, 2018)

Those ropes look loose as fuck


----------



## bromley (Feb 5, 2018)

elbows said:


> I dunno about fishy, since it sounds like the names were actually there, but grubby in other respects for sure. Sounds like it is every Thursday, so I was wrong to say it was a weekend show.
> 
> As for why we get deals with weird promotions instead of ones that are successful over a long period of time with homegrown uk talent, I assume there is plenty of crap business politics involved and when it comes to tv thats two shit worlds colliding. It sounds like FreeSports and PCW had some kind of agreement last year, at least PCW thought so, but in the end FreeSports went with 5 star.
> 
> I've not see any of it but I can see why people were crying for them to tighten the ropes, jesus.


Bloody hell!

I think the house was _OK_, but the lights were off so it looked empty. That's Zac Gibson taking the 619, a great talent.


----------



## elbows (Feb 5, 2018)

bromley said:


> Bloody hell!
> 
> I think the house was _OK_, but the lights were off so it looked empty. That's Zac Gibson taking the 619, a great talent.



I'm ashamed of how little I know of the modern UK scene, and I dont know what the crowd was like for that show or what they should be aiming for. I did hear that it was a building with an 11,000 capacity, which is a problem. There are probably some ways to work round that on TV if you really know what you are doing, to an extent, but even if you get the visuals ok the sound (or lack of) is likely to be an issue too. The way people were describing it on twitter made me think that the lights being off were the lesser of two evils in this case, and it would have looked even more rinky dink if the crowd had been visible. Better to book more suitable venues that its not so hard to make seem reasonably alive! The way this promotion is behaving so far makes me wonder if they will make it through the intended run of weekly tv shows, lets see how fast they can learn on the job.


----------



## elbows (Feb 5, 2018)

I suppose I'll have to try to watch it this week now I've done all this moaning and passing on of other peoples thoughts.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 5, 2018)

When's it on, and where?


----------



## elbows (Feb 5, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> When's it on, and where?



This channel, Thursdays 7pm-10pm. I hadnt heard of it or the channel until I happened to be on twitter and saw it trending during last weeks show.

Home | FreeSports


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2018)

elbows said:


> I'm ashamed of how little I know of the modern UK scene, and I dont know what the crowd was like for that show or what they should be aiming for. I did hear that it was a building with an 11,000 capacity, which is a problem. There are probably some ways to work round that on TV if you really know what you are doing, to an extent, but even if you get the visuals ok the sound (or lack of) is likely to be an issue too. The way people were describing it on twitter made me think that the lights being off were the lesser of two evils in this case, and it would have looked even more rinky dink if the crowd had been visible. Better to book more suitable venues that its not so hard to make seem reasonably alive! The way this promotion is behaving so far makes me wonder if they will make it through the intended run of weekly tv shows, lets see how fast they can learn on the job.



I take it you haven’t seen some of raw and smack down’s recent attendance figures. Smack down regularly only draws about 2,000 people. Moving people to face the camerasThe and use of black cloths do a pretty good job of hiding it. 

I can’t remember what ppv it was towards the end of the year but there were empty seats everywhere. It seems daft for them to not consider doing at least one ppv a year over here now. No matter how bad the product or card was it would sell out. I guess they have to weigh in if it’s worth the cost of shipping everyone and everything over and still come out in the Black, but raw and smack down would no doubt also sell out the following nights and tie it in with a European tour and surely it’s a winner.


----------



## elbows (Feb 5, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I take it you haven’t seen some of raw and smack down’s recent attendance figures. Smack down regularly only draws about 2,000 people. Moving people to face the camerasThe and use of black cloths do a pretty good job of hiding it.



I did factor that into my thinking, but WWE certainly count as knowing what they are doing when it comes to that side of production. And they still have a few thousand in the audience to work with, I dont have a clue how many 5 star got but the early tweets I saw made me anticipate numbers far, far lower than that. Does anybody know of a proper review of the show?



> I can’t remember what ppv it was towards the end of the year but there were empty seats everywhere. It seems daft for them to not consider doing at least one ppv a year over here now. No matter how bad the product or card was it would sell out. I guess they have to weigh in if it’s worth the cost of shipping everyone and everything over and still come out in the Black, but raw and smack down would no doubt also sell out the following nights and tie it in with a European tour and surely it’s a winner.



There is also something of a stigma-inducting paranoia about timezones and showing a ppv on tape-delay that heavily influenced WWE's thinking about this for many years. I might hope that such things dont mean as much to them now because the business changed in a way that makes most individual ppv's relatively unimportant. We've certainly seen them half-ass a few especially since the brand split. But if I try to use pure logic to predict WWE then my predictions will suck! I'm sure they will continue to have a strange and mixed attitude towards UK shows and audience going forwards - just look what happened with the UK promotion they were going to setup, and the uk stars they were going to make, etc.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2018)

elbows said:


> There is also something of a stigma-inducting paranoia about timezones and showing a ppv on tape-delay that heavily influenced WWE's thinking about this for many years. I might hope that such things dont mean as much to them now because the business changed in a way that makes most individual ppv's relatively unimportant. We've certainly seen them half-ass a few especially since the brand split. But if I try to use pure logic to predict WWE then my predictions will suck! I'm sure they will continue to have a strange and mixed attitude towards UK shows and audience going forwards - just look what happened with the UK promotion they were going to setup, and the uk stars they were going to make, etc.



If it's only on the WWE Network (I'm not sure how many cable outlets still carry WWE PPVs in the states, I was under the impression it was pretty much none existent now) then there's got to be scope at some point in the year where a Sunday afternoon rather than evening in the US could fit in. But yes, pretty much everything they do over here tends to be a bodge. AJs title win the exception, but that was probably down to timing more than doing it for the UK crowd.


----------



## elbows (Feb 5, 2018)

cybershot said:


> If it's only on the WWE Network (I'm not sure how many cable outlets still carry WWE PPVs in the states, I was under the impression it was pretty much none existent now) then there's got to be scope at some point in the year where a Sunday afternoon rather than evening in the US could fit in. But yes, pretty much everything they do over here tends to be a bodge. AJs title win the exception, but that was probably down to timing more than doing it for the UK crowd.



They pretend ppv is dead, and event went through that hilarious period of telling all their ppv customers that they were stupid, but quite a few people still get it that way. But sadly this isnt even the point because its already been demonstrated over the years that shows being genuinely live and not tape-delayed does not necessarily harm business at all. But myths and false assumptions still get created an sometimes they stick.

Basically I've mostly given up on main roster WWE until VInce is out of the picture. I will watch some ppv matches but I cant spend all that time watching their tv product when there are so many hours a week, and so little care over storyline consistency. I'm not willing to invest time in storylines that may be dropped without even beginning to explain what happened, etc etc etc. Anything they fuck up in regards the uk is going to tend to get placed in the same bin as I put all this other shit of theirs in. At least I've got NXT in the meantime, which is more in keeping with the amount of time I used to spend watching WWF as a teenager anyway, including just the four 'ppv equivalent' shows a year.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2018)

Ditto, I don't bother with the weekly shows, just the PPVs and I think theres too many of those!


----------



## elbows (Feb 6, 2018)

Found some possible 5 star audience numbers off some forum. What are described as generous estimate of 600-800, with only 44 people on the side that the hard camera sees.

Also talk of only about 400 seats sold for the Newcastle show so far, with 80% of floor seats still available.


----------



## bromley (Feb 6, 2018)

elbows said:


> I'm ashamed of how little I know of the modern UK scene, and I dont know what the crowd was like for that show or what they should be aiming for. I did hear that it was a building with an 11,000 capacity, which is a problem. There are probably some ways to work round that on TV if you really know what you are doing, to an extent, but even if you get the visuals ok the sound (or lack of) is likely to be an issue too. The way people were describing it on twitter made me think that the lights being off were the lesser of two evils in this case, and it would have looked even more rinky dink if the crowd had been visible. Better to book more suitable venues that its not so hard to make seem reasonably alive! The way this promotion is behaving so far makes me wonder if they will make it through the intended run of weekly tv shows, lets see how fast they can learn on the job.


They're trying to be a family friendly show. Interesting how a promotion without a large fanbase has a tv deal. 11k is ridiculous too big for the British scene. I think the modern day (this century) record is ICW fear and loathing IX of 6k and that is their equivalent of wrestlemania and featured, Kurt Angle, Rick O'Shea, The Dudley Boys and some chap called Finn Balor.


----------



## elbows (Feb 9, 2018)

After all that I forgot to watch their show this week.


----------



## elbows (Feb 9, 2018)

Went looking for reviews, didnt really get a sense of match quality but it sounds like they improved a few things at least - entrance music, tighter ropes, lights. 

I'm going to assume the crowd still looks & sounds rather feeble.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 11, 2018)

The Newcastle show is on now. What’s with those ropes!

Mysterio Vs haskings is pretty good.

Attendance is awful.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 15, 2018)

Rich Swann released, on his Birthday. 

Ziggler, has surprisingly in my book. Signed a new deal. Expected him to look elsewhere when the likes of Cody Rhodes have been so successsful working elsewhere. 

Rey Mysterio expected to sign a similar contract to how Jericho’s works later in the year allowing him to work elsewhere and have months on and months off. 

DDP expected on this weeks RAW. 

Jeff Hardy may be back in time for mania which should see the woken gimmick get moving properly. 

Triple H now has full control of 205 live. With him sealing the rousey deal it’s expected he could be fully running the company by the end of the year. While it would always be difficult to run RAW in the same manner as NXT this can only be a good thing for those that actually prefer to watch matches! Hopefully.


----------



## elbows (Feb 15, 2018)

I think theres an impression that Ziggler might be one of those wrestlers for whom it really is all about WWE, even when misused and held down, breaking free and doing it your own way like Cody has done (with far better results than most expected) is not for everyone.

I dont have enough WWE faith to allow myself to care about the woken gimmick at the moment. Yes it might improve with Jeff back, in part because WWE have never had much faith in Matt and that sadly hasnt changed. And programmes with Bray Wyatt seem to have been very bad for lots of wrestlers momentum for years now, Matt wasnt unique in that regard. Still a big shame though.

I've read reviews of 205 live since the reboot and it sounds promising, although they were still doing that show too late in the show from the live audience perspective so the crowd was still mostly dead. I hadnt heard about the prospect of HHH having full control by the end of the year, wouldnt surprise me if it happened but also wouldnt surprise me if it took longer than that, and its hard to imagine Vince not meddling unless he is incapacitated.


----------



## elbows (Feb 15, 2018)

And yeah I am looking forward to the HHH era. I realy like most of what he has done with NXT and some of the other one-off shows (I assume he was involved with cruiserweight classic and uk stuff for example). And there is really just the one main area which I consider to be his chief known fault - decisions made when it comes to the booking of himself as the HHH character. There have been many examples of talent being unnecessarily buried by specific HHH-related booking decisions, over pretty much this entire century of WWF/E. Yes for many years he wasnt the one making those decisions, but he had the ear of the right people and it showed. All the signs so far are that whether it be Vince or Steph or HHH making the call on a HHH character related promo, match result, spot in the match, or who is left standing tall in the ring in the end after delivering another audience-crushing, all too predictable, unneccesary pedigree, the balance betwen him looking good and the other talent getting over is wrong too often. Things have been amazingly consistent on those fronts all through this century so far.

Since his in-ring career wound down it doesnt get on my nerves as much as it used to, and it wont hamper as many other talents as it used to. But I mention it now because in most other respects he's always been considered a genuine student of the game, and stuff in NXT has shown this off. He's also probably won some people over by smoothing over the relationship with certain WWF legends who were estranged from WWF/E and Vince for years, eg getting Bruno Sammartino to go into the WWE Hall Of Fame. And yet one of the big WWE problems in this latter part of the Vince era has been along the lines of burying the wrong talent at the wrong time, killing peoples pushes with shitty booking, stubbornly sticking to plans for years regarding who should be the next 'top of the company' star despite fam reaction and repeated failure (eg Roman Reigns). And the reverse with WWE being stubborn about who should not be the next big star even when the audience want the guy big time (Daniel Bryan). And then turning aspects of that behind the scenes dynamic into real storylines, often involving Steph and HHH (again, regarding Daniel Bryan). So I'm very much waiting to see whether even though HHH has starred in many of these segments that have arguably not been good for the companies popularity over the years, it's really just Vince making the shit calls and HHH will have more humility about his own character when he is fully in charge. Not convinced, but its possible. Also bonus points for some of HHH's most silly WrestleMania costumes/entrances which are not exactly short of ego eccentricities either!

I have have finally remembered to watch some 5 star wrestling tonight! The ropes still look dodgy for doing certain kinds of moves on (eg moves where you jump from the mat to a rope and then spring back off). The tv product looks a little better visually than I was expecting, but I stand by my previous comments about getting more appropriately sized buildings for this size of audience. I dont think I'm going to sit through the whole show, some bits of it seem to be ok but I just find it so hard to get into properly when there are so many moments where we need to hear a lively audience and the one available here is just not big enough to bring the required energy, heat etc. Dont get me wrong, there are moments I can forget about this or just about enough of a reaction is heard that the product is ok, but those moments dont last. Ah, Grado just turned up as I type this.


----------



## elbows (Feb 15, 2018)

Hmm I think the ropes are even shitter than I thought, people cant even run the ropes without it looking like far more of a human catapult than is normal.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 15, 2018)

The production is quite good. To be fair, but yeah. Using arenas with only a few hundred in attendance and this won’t last long.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 17, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Ditto, I don't bother with the weekly shows, just the PPVs and I think theres too many of those!



Looks like they took my advice.

_ 




			After WrestleMania, you’ll get the best of both brands – Raw and SmackDown LIVE – every month, on every pay-per-view. Catch every event streaming live on the award-winning WWE Network.


WrestleMania 34 – April 8, 2018

WWE Backlash – May 6, 2018

WWE Money in the Bank – June 17, 2018

WWE Extreme Rules – July 15, 2018

SummerSlam – Aug. 19, 2018

WWE Hell in a Cell – Sept. 16, 2018

WWE TLC: Tables, Ladders & Chairs – Oct. 21, 2018

Survivor Series – Nov. 18, 2018

WWE Clash of Champions – Dec. 16, 2018
		
Click to expand...

_


----------



## elbows (Feb 17, 2018)

I'm getting partial deja vu. I seem to remember the long, slow death of the brand split last time involved giving up on brand-specific ppv's at some stage.

It's better for show quantity and quality but bad news for the wrestlers further down the card on either brand. And maybe more shows will go to 4 hour+ in length now due to pressure to find match slots.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 17, 2018)

elbows said:


> It's better for show quantity and quality but bad news for the wrestlers further down the card on either brand. And maybe more shows will go to 4 hour+ in length now due to pressure to find match slots.


Podcast I listened to claimed 5 hours, incl. pre-show.

'kin 'ell...


----------



## cybershot (Feb 19, 2018)

Rumours circulated late last week that double j Jeff Jarrett was getting inducted into hall of fame. Which would be a huge surprise considering the back story. 

Well. It’s just been confirmed.


----------



## elbows (Feb 19, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Which would be a huge surprise considering the back story.



Never say never in the wacky world of wrestling! Especially when it comes to bridges burnt with Vince, in part because he is one of the shitty alpha wankers that will fuck you up when you stand up to him, but will sort of respect you more than those who dont stand up to him.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Feb 19, 2018)

Is this just a scheme for Jarrett to make a drunken fool of himself on the big stage before being blasted full-force with an Elias guitar shot?


----------



## elbows (Feb 19, 2018)

Lord Camomile said:


> Podcast I listened to claimed 5 hours, incl. pre-show.
> 
> 'kin 'ell...



Another good reason never to watch the pre-show! I've tried a number of times, often for no better reason than its on one hour more reasonable uk time than the main show (obviously). And I just cant handle the panel format, even though Renee Young is bloody good at her job. 

Although to be honest, I seem to remember watching quite a bit of one not very long ago at all that had some really funny Kevin Owens stuff. There was some radio gimp on the panel and they were trying to do some questions and answers with Zane & Owens backstage. Well these two were actually allowed to act like real human beings with natural language, and Owens refused to take questions from the radio guy and started going on about how the guy was only there because he paid to be given the seat on the panel. It was quite awkward and hilarious to me, although as indicated I have very low expectations of pre-shows. Let me see if I can find a writeup of this incident so I can discover who the guy was.


----------



## elbows (Feb 19, 2018)

OK it was the Royal Rumble pre-show, and the guy is Peter Rosenberg, and he has been paying to make WWE appearances!

Peter Rosenberg - Wikipedia



> *WWE (2016–present)[edit]*
> On December 4, 2016, Rosenberg paid WWE $15,000 to be a guest panelist on the TLC: Tables, Ladders & Chairs pre-show. In January 2017, Rosenberg became the host of the WWE Network show, _Bring it to the Table_, alongside Paul Heyman and John "Bradshaw" Layfield, with Corey Graves replacing Heyman in later episodes. He paid WWE $20,000 for each of these appearances.
> 
> Throughtout 2017, Rosenberg would be a panelist on the Royal Rumble, Fastlane, NXT TakeOver: Chicago, Backlash, Great Balls of Fire, SummerSlam, Hell in a Cell, TLC: Tables, Ladders & Chairs and Survivor Series pre-shows, paying WWE anywhere between $15,000 and $45,000 per appearance.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 19, 2018)

elbows said:


> OK it was the Royal Rumble pre-show, and the guy is Peter Rosenberg, and he has been paying to make WWE appearances!
> 
> Peter Rosenberg - Wikipedia



Just. Why!!


----------



## bromley (Feb 21, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Is this just a scheme for Jarrett to make a drunken fool of himself on the big stage before being blasted full-force with an Elias guitar shot?


----------



## bromley (Feb 21, 2018)

Talking smack had this quality segment.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 21, 2018)

Miz is great, under appreciated (or maybe not the amount of times they put the IC title on him) best mic working heel by a country mile, but he's in danger of getting into that 'i'm a heel, but the crowd is cheering for me' zone. Where has he doesn't really work as a babyface.


----------



## bromley (Feb 27, 2018)

Overall a poor elimination chamber. Bron was booked like WCW booked Hogan in '95 and with an almost as shit finishing move.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 27, 2018)

bromley said:


> Overall a poor elimination chamber. Bron was booked like WCW booked Hogan in '95 and with an almost as shit finishing move.



WWE is shit now. It's completely boring. Maybe the only interesting thing is Matt Hardy, just because it's so ridiculous it reminds me of stuff from my childhood when I watched wrestling.

The only real thing I've enjoyed recently is Pete Dunne v Roderick Strong just because the hits were very hard and it was a good match.


----------



## elbows (Feb 27, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> WWE is shit now. It's completely boring. Maybe the only interesting thing is Matt Hardy, just because it's so ridiculous it reminds me of stuff from my childhood when I watched wrestling.
> 
> The only real thing I've enjoyed recently is Pete Dunne v Roderick Strong just because the hits were very hard and it was a good match.



I keep wasting the limited time I have available for wrestling by listening to shows that are reviewing the various WWE shows, and almost always not liking what I hear enough to watch. I always watch the NXT TakeOver shows and never remember being disappointed by one of those yet. I suppose I usually still watch the big 4 WWE shows a year but I've probably skipped a few over the years. For years I used to keep watching with the anticipation that something was changing that would make the product more fun to watch again, but despite some things improving it still struggles to genuinely interest me so much these days.

I really should be trying to watch more new japan stuff, so many great matches with sensible booking and a notably different feel to their shows because each match does not stick to the same broad generic match template like nearly all WWE matches do. And I have subscribed to their network, I just havent made the time to indulge.

I like wacky stuff, both for wrestling nostalgia reasons and because I think when done with the right people and the right amount of it on a show, it really adds to the entertainment wrestling can offer. I've enjoyed some WWE wackiness  this century, because they do manage to pull it off on occasion despite all the reasons why they often produce shite on this front. Vince has a pretty basic and naff sense of humour, I think there are also questions about Kevin Dunns limited tastes, and the overly scripted and controlled environment in general is not a great setting for wackiness that hits the spot. The control thing and lack of serious push for Matt Hardy havent given me reasons to be excited by the wwe woken matt hardy thing yet, not compared to the broken stuff in TNA, but I did get at least one laugh out of it at the start. I will make an effort to watch that stuff if I hear reports that things are going great but sadly its rare to hear that about any wrestler thats recently had a program with bray wyatt.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 10, 2018)

So the smart money is on Braun and Alexa to win the Mixed Match Challenge because they're representing (WWE's own charity) Conor's Cure.

However, they also seem to be including these matches in Asuka's streak

Something's gotta give 

Would sure be a strange way for her to lose her streak. Unless she loses it _before_ the final? I'm not clear on when the MMC will finish in relation to Wrestlemania.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 10, 2018)

Oh shit, and those two teams meet in the next round!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 10, 2018)

Only counts as a loss if she eats the pin.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 10, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Only counts as a loss if she eats the pin.


But in the last round they were playing up that The Miz was putting her streak under threat; Asuka was getting all excited and screaming on about her streak on the apron as Miz was struggling against Jimmy Uso, and the commentators were playing it up too


----------



## bromley (Mar 12, 2018)

Lord Camomile said:


> But in the last round they were playing up that The Miz was putting her streak under threat; Asuka was getting all excited and screaming on about her streak on the apron as Miz was struggling against Jimmy Uso, and the commentators were playing it up too


Best not to use logic with WWE. What is the point of this mix tag challenge anyway?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 12, 2018)

I've been quite enjoying it - as others have said, allows for different dynamics and feels like the wrestlers have more chance to express themselves and have fun with it. Definitely a welcome change from the usual stuff.


----------



## elbows (Mar 12, 2018)

I've not watched it at all and I heard it was used for wacky comedy spots a lot but I have no problem with that and will probably check it out at some point.

Agree strongly with the not looking for too much logic or continuity in WWE. They back themselves into a corner all the time and they usually deal with it by pretending stuff didnt happen. They might care enough about Asukas winning streak to find a direct way to wriggle out of any problems there, or they might just half-arse it and treat the mixed match stuff like its own world. The whole 'Miz got pinned so it doesnt count' thing sounds like a typical WWE solution indeed.

I see Jeff Hardy got arrested for driving (and crashing) whilst impaired.

I need a couple of mammoth session to clear my new japan backlog for 2018 shows alone, yet alone all the quality matches in the archives. There are many wrestlers that have impressed me in different ways over the years but oh what quality and consistency is on display these days! If I fiddle just very slightly with the criteria of what makes a wrestler my favourite, Minoru Suzuki is my favourite wrestler of all time!


----------



## cybershot (Mar 12, 2018)

Fastlane matches were actually not to bad.

Orton taking US title from Roode made sense in order to have an established name going into Mania with a title. Will no doubt drop it back to Roode in New Orleans.

Not sure why Bludgeon Brothers needed to interfere in tag title match, would have preferred New Day taking the title and having one final winner takes all match at Mania as seems impossible for new day and usos to not have a bad match, instead another triple threat match thrown into the mix.

Feel like a missed opportunity was taken to have had Taker appear in the main event and drag Cena under the ring or something, yes it's been done before, but it would have had a great impact, especially as Taker is rumoured to be on RAW, why waste the opportunity to do it at the PPV and have a buzz for RAW tonight. (I know it was a smackdown ppv, but its not like Cena or taker arn't allowed to show up anywhere)

Mania is looking a mess thou, loads of potential triple threat matches on the card (IC, US and tag title matches all looking triple threat, as well as potential Zayn/Owens/McMahon clash) due to lazy booking and storytelling over the past few months where they just clearly have no idea what to do with people and also the need to keep people happy and have them on the card. Makes sense for Asuka to face Flair. Is Flair still undefeated herself on PPV?

Allows asuka to remain undefeated for perhaps another 12 months and face Rousey next year in a champ vs champ showdown which could even main event mania. A female version of warrior v hogan. 

Just add me to the booking team now already.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 13, 2018)

I like the idea of strowman & Elias being forced to tag to face the bar. They probably win which keeps strowman out of singles titles feuds for a bit longer before building him up to face reigns.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Rumours circulated late last week that double j Jeff Jarrett was getting inducted into hall of fame. Which would be a huge surprise considering the back story.
> 
> Well. It’s just been confirmed.





Well blow me over.... whoulda thunk it. Double J having anything to do with WWE.

I hark back to the day of the first two incarnations of DX.


----------



## elbows (Mar 13, 2018)

WWE attempts to get Reigns cheered ahead of Wrestlemania are the same old shit, the beyond stale 'good guy vs Vince McMahon' template and trying to make out that Lesnar is Vinces chosen one. I dont think this is going to distract all the people who boo because they know Reigns is really the chosen one. I just hope we dont get a repeat of the old Lesnar-Goldberg match dynamic where the crowd shat on both of them because they knew they were both leaving. Granted this situation is quite different but the potential remains if the crowd turn on both participants, not that its a good idea to pay too much attention to Lesnar-UFC talk during contract renewal negotiations.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 13, 2018)

I'm very curious as to who main events. I mean, smart money is of course on Reigns/Lesnar, but then where do you put Styles/Nakamura, and who follows them?? One of the tag or womens' matches, I guess...

Odds on Styles/Nakamura opening the show...?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 14, 2018)

The 'Fabulous Moolah Memorial Brothel Royal' is quickly stealing all of their press columns. Srsly, who knew?  

Called Strowman for the tag belts at Mania a few weeks back (not here, I do realise). Came to me in a drunken epiphany. I initially paired him with a short arse (I don't remember who, though it wasn't Ellsworth, who admittedly'd be a shoe-in) but I now agree with those who believe he'll tag with a somewhat reluctant and possibly unconcious Drifter.

Not enjoying the weepy Jax nonsense. The fans have been warm to a face-turn for the past year, what with an awesome gauntlet match, the Rumble, her endlessly making the save etc. Could have just gone with the flow, but no, she's fat and that's the key.

Not seen SD yet.


----------



## elbows (Mar 14, 2018)

Well it certainly wont be Ellsworth as they released him last November. I know they could always rehire him if they had an idea but it seems unlikely.

I've not been paying that much attention to the card, though I did hear in the past that Strowman was being kept as a backup for the Lesnar match in case some steroid scandal with Reigns actually exploded rather than just being teased, with later confusing details about whether Roman Reigns was confused with Luther Reigns. Anyway the video is supposed to be out on Friday at which point it should be much clearer whether there is much of a story here or not.



> Filmmaker Jon Bravo revealed tonight on Instagram that his video on the WFN investigation is 25 minutes long and will be released this Friday. The video reportedly implicates Roman Reigns and 15 other current and former wrestlers as past customers of jailed steroids dealer Richard Rodriguez. Rodriguez and his company, Wellness Fitness Nutrition LLC (WFN), were accused of being involved in a distribution chain that imported goods from China, then manufactured illegal steroids in Arizona before distributing them out of the Miami area.



Jon Bravo - Roman Reigns Video Update, NFL Stars At WWE PC, Comedian Learning Pro Wrestling (Video) - WrestlingInc.com


----------



## bromley (Mar 14, 2018)

elbows said:


> WWE attempts to get Reigns cheered ahead of Wrestlemania are the same old shit, the beyond stale 'good guy vs Vince McMahon' template and trying to make out that Lesnar is Vinces chosen one. I dont think this is going to distract all the people who boo because they know Reigns is really the chosen one. I just hope we dont get a repeat of the old Lesnar-Goldberg match dynamic where the crowd shat on both of them because they knew they were both leaving. Granted this situation is quite different but the potential remains if the crowd turn on both participants, not that its a good idea to pay too much attention to Lesnar-UFC talk during contract renewal negotiations.


Only seen the beginning of Raw but yeah going that direction was ridiculous. Pretty sure the smarky WM crowd will get behind Lesner and boo Reigns regardless.

I thought the Reigns steroid thing had been released and it actually was Luthur Reigns?


----------



## elbows (Mar 14, 2018)

bromley said:


> I thought the Reigns steroid thing had been released and it actually was Luthur Reigns?



Not quite. The hype master who is supposed to be releasing the details mentioned Luther Reigns recently and lots of people thought this was a backtrack, but I believe he since clarified that Luther is in addition to Roman. And to be honest the mistaken identity of stage names would be a bit odd considering wrestlers are unlikely to be receiving packages of drugs addressed to their stage name, and the revelations are supposed to be based on records from the drug-supplying business. I just hope the video has a lot of proper detail because the stuff thats been publicly mentioned so far is not enough and I hope the whole thing isnt a waste of time.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 14, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Called Strowman for the tag belts at Mania a few weeks back (not here, I do realise). Came to me in a drunken epiphany. I initially paired him with a short arse (I don't remember who, though it wasn't Ellsworth, who admittedly'd be a shoe-in) but I now agree with those who believe he'll tag with a somewhat reluctant and possibly unconcious Drifter.



It seems sensible booking (for once) both are hugely over at the moment, give them a short run with the belts and do the usual fall out, and one and one match at SummerSlam, which will probably see the climax of a Rollins/Reigns program, and then they can move him into one of the title pictures.


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2018)

Oh what a surprise, the steroids video was shit and the evidence presented did not even begin to live up to the hype. Fuck off Jon Bravo.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 17, 2018)




----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2018)

I'm not a fan of WWE jargon like 'sports entertainment' but it really doesnt matter that much. And in one regard where it can really matter a lot, tv rights fees where 'live sports' have been heavily valued in recent times, far too much money is at stake for such a debate to latch onto something right now. Maybe later if/when the tv rights fees for sports bubble really bursts. But I've no idea why wrestling would do better if everyone considered it a performance art. People already know what it really is, have done for decades and mostly did even in the full on kayfabe era.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 17, 2018)

Zack Sabre, Jnr, after beating Ibushi: "I fight with my brain, and with an underlying hatred of the British Conservative Party"


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 17, 2018)

elbows said:


> I'm not a fan of WWE jargon like 'sports entertainment' but it really doesnt matter that much. And in one regard where it can really matter a lot, tv rights fees where 'live sports' have been heavily valued in recent times, far too much money is at stake for such a debate to latch onto something right now. Maybe later if/when the tv rights fees for sports bubble really bursts. But I've no idea why wrestling would do better if everyone considered it a performance art. People already know what it really is, have done for decades and mostly did even in the full on kayfabe era.


The interesting bit for me was that it was coming from wrestlers, not fans, analysts or academics.

I think someone actually made the point that wrestling is currently regulated like a sport, which is a hindrance to it, so I suppose that aspect goes both ways.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 17, 2018)

This was shared on Facebook when I posted the same Twitter comment there; a short talk by Mike Quackenbush, founder of Chicara.



The same guy who posted that said


> The best explanation I can come up with is: A performance in which artists and audience all cosplay a sporting event collaboratively



While the idea of everyone "cosplaying a sporting event" amuses me greatly, I also think it is a pretty accurate description.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 19, 2018)

WrestleMania 35 returns to MetLife Stadium.

One flight, so at this stage considering going. Anyone done the whole weekend before? Although expensive I'm guessing the official WWE travel packages actually give you the best tickets?


----------



## elbows (Mar 19, 2018)

I've not been to any live wrestling since SummerSlam at Wembley!

The sheer number of non-WWE events that take place at WrestleMania weekend is mind-boggling these days though, if I ever did it I would want to make sure to see some of these other shows as well as NXT TakeOver, WrestleMania and Raw. Dunno about WWE travel packages, and depends what you mean by best tickets. Getting anywhere close to the ring is going to cost a lot I think.


----------



## bromley (Mar 19, 2018)

cybershot said:


> WrestleMania 35 returns to MetLife Stadium.
> 
> One flight, so at this stage considering going. Anyone done the whole weekend before? Although expensive I'm guessing the official WWE travel packages actually give you the best tickets?


I'm doing the NXT Takeover to Smackdown 4 dayer in Brooklyn this summer.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 19, 2018)

elbows said:


> I've not been to any live wrestling since SummerSlam at Wembley!
> 
> The sheer number of non-WWE events that take place at WrestleMania weekend is mind-boggling these days though, if I ever did it I would want to make sure to see some of these other shows as well as NXT TakeOver, WrestleMania and Raw. Dunno about WWE travel packages, and depends what you mean by best tickets. Getting anywhere close to the ring is going to cost a lot I think.



Theres all different tiers of packages, and generally I believe you get good seats, I would be looking at a package that included HOF, NXT & Mania at the least. Although I believe Raw/smackdown and access are also included on the packages.

Here's this year packages for ref: WrestleMania Travel Packages 2017

If I was doing this year, I guess I'd be looking at the Platinum package, then it's just a case of getting there!



bromley said:


> I'm doing the NXT Takeover to Smackdown 4 dayer in Brooklyn this summer.



Be interested to know how you've gone about booking it?

The OH would also want to see a Basketball game? Thou I know nothing about how the Basketball season runs.


----------



## bromley (Mar 20, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Theres all different tiers of packages, and generally I believe you get good seats, I would be looking at a package that included HOF, NXT & Mania at the least. Although I believe Raw/smackdown and access are also included on the packages.
> 
> Here's this year packages for ref: WrestleMania Travel Packages 2017
> 
> ...


I found a 4 ticket official package, all with the same seats. Ticketmaster only had lower tier expensive tickets on sale from memory.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 20, 2018)

bromley said:


> I found a 4 ticket official package, all with the same seats. Ticketmaster only had lower tier expensive tickets on sale from memory.



Don't suppose you know the name of the company that did the package or was it the official WWE one?


----------



## cybershot (Mar 20, 2018)

Interesting.


----------



## elbows (Mar 20, 2018)

Good. Another reason never to say never in wrestling. Mind you in this case its always just been a question of getting Dr Maroon to clear him, although for a long time it was unclear how this could be achieved. It had become clear in the last week or two that things might be shifting, and WWE had been planning Shame McMahon & Bryan vs Owens & Zayn for a while, albeit with a backup plan for if Bryan wasnt cleared.

Anyway I am glad, especially as it was clear not so long after his retirement speech that he wasnt actually going to come to terms with retiring at that point and would take whatever path was necessary to return to being an active wrestler.


----------



## elbows (Mar 20, 2018)

Hopefully he adapts his style to protect himself more this time, and WWE dont put him in any matches where Sheamus (and various others) might kick him in the head.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 21, 2018)

elbows said:


> WWE had been planning Shame McMahon & Bryan vs Owens & Zayn for a while, albeit with a backup plan for if Bryan wasnt cleared.



I srsly hope that ISN'T going to happen. Shane O'Mac is the biggest heel in the company AFAIK. 
Clearance or not, I don't see him hanging around. Soon as that contract is up, he's off.

After tonight's RAW, I'm still sorry Miz left Smackdown, as he deserves to have won the big belt again since the brand split.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 21, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I srsly hope that ISN'T going to happen. Shane O'Mac is the biggest heel in the company AFAIK.
> Clearance or not, I don't see him hanging around. Soon as that contract is up, he's off.
> 
> After tonight's RAW, I'm still sorry Miz left Smackdown, as he deserves to have won the big belt again since the brand split.



I'm honestly expecting a full on McMahon family heel turn at Mania and a return of the 'Authority'. So I think the match will happen. Shane turns on Daniel and KO/SZ become his SD goons and Rousey turns on Angle and joins Steph/HHH

Agreed Miz is wasted on the midcard on RAW.

I see Asuka/Miz defeated Strowman/Bliss in the MMC.

I don't quite understand why Asuka was paired with Miz and what purpose it serves, where as they could have done something long term with Bliss/Strowman,.


----------



## bromley (Mar 21, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Don't suppose you know the name of the company that did the package or was it the official WWE one?


Turns out it was ticketmaster!


----------



## bromley (Mar 21, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I'm honestly expecting a full on McMahon family heel turn at Mania and a return of the 'Authority'. So I think the match will happen. Shane turns on Daniel and KO/SZ become his SD goons and Rousey turns on Angle and joins Steph/HHH
> 
> Agreed Miz is wasted on the midcard on RAW.
> 
> ...


Why have the mix match challenge in the first place? Why have Asuka on Raw three weeks before facing Flair, why have a throw away Asuka v Bliss match? Why build a Flair v Riot fued for a single PPV? I can go on.


----------



## elbows (Mar 21, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I srsly hope that ISN'T going to happen. Shane O'Mac is the biggest heel in the company AFAIK.
> Clearance or not, I don't see him hanging around. Soon as that contract is up, he's off.
> 
> After tonight's RAW, I'm still sorry Miz left Smackdown, as he deserves to have won the big belt again since the brand split.



Shane certainly not biggest heel. And Bryan was only sure to leave WWE at the end of his contract if they didnt clear him. There are circumstances that could still cause him to leave but it's not something I would bet even a pound on now that he has been cleared, which was the main issue.


----------



## elbows (Mar 21, 2018)

bromley said:


> Why have the mix match challenge in the first place? Why have Asuka on Raw three weeks before facing Flair, why have a throw away Asuka v Bliss match? Why build a Flair v Riot fued for a single PPV? I can go on.



Worst thing about crappy WWE decisions is that most of them dont even harm their business, at least not in the dramatic ways that would have happened in the old days where you really knew which stars were putting bums on seats and putting the belt on the wrong person could kill the territory. The main incentive to stop doing this shit is more likely to come from the person at the top actually understanding what makes a good product and caring to deliver such a product. Vince is not that man, HHH hopefully is but with the usual caveats that I've droned on about in this thread.


----------



## elbows (Mar 21, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I'm honestly expecting a full on McMahon family heel turn at Mania and a return of the 'Authority'. So I think the match will happen. Shane turns on Daniel and KO/SZ become his SD goons and Rousey turns on Angle and joins Steph/HHH



Very early for a Rousey turn, not convinced they will contemplate that at this stage. More likely to contemplate that if there are signs of the crowd not cheering Rousey enough or other failures, in which case they might move quickly, but I've not seen signs that we are anywhere close to that point.


----------



## elbows (Mar 22, 2018)

I see 5 star wrestling died (that uk show that was on some free uk tv sports station). No bloody surprise at all, for reasons we already talked about and some we probably didnt. Not the first promotion to have a very limited life due to extremely poor plans and execution, wont be the last.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 23, 2018)

bromley said:


> Turns out it was ticketmaster!



One of Steve Austin's lesser-known gimmicks






*coat*


----------



## bromley (Mar 23, 2018)

Jesus!

Anyway a mate does a wrestling/football related podcast, please give it a listen and let them know what you think.

Take a look at SmashCast Podcast (@WeAreSmashCast): SmashCast Podcast (@WeAreSmashCast) on Twitter


----------



## elbows (Mar 25, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> One of Steve Austin's lesser-known gimmicks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Mar 28, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I'm honestly expecting a full on McMahon family heel turn at Mania and a return of the 'Authority'. So I think the match will happen. Shane turns on Daniel and KO/SZ become his SD goons and Rousey turns on Angle and joins Steph/HHH



Now you will always be left wondering if you might have been right about this, because Shane McMahon is fucked with diverticulitis and a hernia, a situation which I assume will force them to change plans. As per one of my other posts I already said I dont think this was the plan, but now I will never be able to prove it


----------



## bromley (Mar 29, 2018)

Hate to say it but it's good to have one less McMahon on the card.


----------



## elbows (Mar 29, 2018)

Unfortunately it sounds like they are pressing ahead and announced the match with Shane in it as planned anyway!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 31, 2018)

Mucho speculacion that Rey Mysterio will be Braun's tag partner. Also, that they've got the Rock, who I'm guessing will be in a segment with the Drifter, now that a potential tag run is apparently out of the question.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 4, 2018)

Shane cleared. At least for the benefit of the storyline. That heel turn is a dead cert.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Shane cleared. At least for the benefit of the storyline. That heel turn is a dead cert.



The Shane bit of your theory wouldnt be surprising, Steph is almost always a heel and HHH has always been comfortable being a heel at a moments notice. It's the Rousey bit I find much less plausible, it would be as stupid as trying to turn Daniel Bryan heel right now. Which is certainly a level of stupidity that WWE have indulged in in the past, so I suppose I shouldnt be too confident. Although that time Austin went heel was actually his own idea, one time they shouldnt have let a top performer have so much influence on booking.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 4, 2018)

elbows said:


> The Shane bit of your theory wouldnt be surprising, Steph is almost always a heel and HHH has always been comfortable being a heel at a moments notice. It's the Rousey bit I find much less plausible, it would be as stupid as trying to turn Daniel Bryan heel right now. Which is certainly a level of stupidity that WWE have indulged in in the past, so I suppose I shouldnt be too confident. Although that time Austin went heel was actually his own idea, one time they shouldnt have let a top performer have so much influence on booking.



Rousey is proving to be very very green, especially on the mic, she's struggling. She needs someone to do the mic work for her at the moment. She's getting her cues and words all wrong. It will come with time, but for now, she needs to work on her wrestling and let someone else do the talking. Be that the Authority or even Paul Heyman, but Kurt Angle isn't the right choice. He's just as bad these days, and I can't think of another face manager. She certainly won't be going up against the other women in the division once she gets going without a target on her back anyway, so may as well just make her heel, in my opinion anyway. Besides fans love a heel these days so it's not exactly complete suicide, the merch will still sell. If she wants to emulate Roddy, he was epic at both!

For me it makes sense to just get the heel turn done early and work towards a massive face turn a couple years later. A build up to having a female match headline WrestleMania next year would also be in line with the companies direction. An undefeated Asuka Vs an undefeated Rousey. Champion Vs Champion. With Asuka going in as the babyface. Rousey can stay heel for another 12 months or so after that still. 

Of course the above is too sweet a storyline direction in my head, so that won't happen.

As for Daniel Bryan, he may have turned if he wasn't cleared, but it would be an epic dumb move to turn him now he's cleared. Smackdowns ratings for that announcement alone prove how much of a fan favourite he is.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2018)

Anyone who saw the Rousey series of the Ultimate Fighter (their reality TV show, not the normal UFC fight shows) knows that her natural personality would make for a good heel. She cant handle losing at all (as also shown later in her fighting career) and she has some major self-esteem stuff going on that causes explosions and strange decision-making at times. However I'm not sure if this stuff will translate to pro wrestling, larger than life shit, it's just as likely to result in her leaving WWE at some point if she isnt happy.

She has never been great on the mic and has a weird form of charisma, and I'm not sure I expect her to improve that much in WWE, it will be interesting to see if she does. And despite everything I've said I would not like to bet on her failing, since plenty of idiots thought she wouldnt turn womens UFC into a huge mainstream success, or couldnt draw a good buy rate for a PPV, couldnt headline, and look how wrong they were.

I'd favour teaming her with Heyman if they could get the dynamic right, especially if its actually true about Lesnar leaving and Heyman having nothing else to do in WWE.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 4, 2018)

Of course the massive oversight from my epic 12 month plan above is that Asuka is also dreadful on the mic and that won't improve anytime soon. If they are to headline Mania, both need to be able to talk the talk, unless they give her someone as well. In my crazy world of pro wrestling, that guy is the Miz. They already are the odd paring in the MMC and will probably go on to win it now. Miz was being weird on commentary on Monday often talking about how he's about to become a Dad, not something a heel you want to despise should be talking about, so maybe he comes back after his break a changed man? Thou he is probably the best heel they have right now!

Going back to this years Mania. Worse Mania build up ever? A card that doesn't really jump out. Other than AJ Vs Nakamura and word is AJ is carrying a knee injury. 

A show that will go on for too long that again by the main event the crowd are going to be bored and there will be no atmosphere?

I also see every title changing hands! It's probably happened before in days of only 3 titles on the line, but with so many in the modern era, would it be a first for no one to retain in the modern era?


----------



## cybershot (Apr 4, 2018)

May as well do predictions:

*Cedric Alexander vs. Mustafa Ali (WWE Cruiserweight Championship Tournament Finals)*
Prediction: Mustafa Ali

*Raw Women’s Champion Alexa Bliss vs. Nia Jax *
Prediction: Carmella cashes in her money in the bank and somehow wins. Probably due to some distraction of if she can cash in on the RAW brand. Someone needs to switch once Asuka switches to Smackdown.

*Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Braun Strowman and a partner of his choosing *
Prediction: Braun & Rey Mysterio

*The first-ever WrestleMania Women’s Battle Royal Match								 *
Prediction: Picking Becky Lynch as she probably needs the push the most.

*Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal								 *
Prediction: I don't care, thy will probably give it Corbin again.

*United States Champion Randy Orton vs. Bobby Roode vs Jinder Mahal vs. Rusev (Fatal 4-Way Match)							  *
Prediction: Bobby Roode

*Intercontinental Champion The Miz vs. Seth Rollins vs. Finn Bálor*
Prediction: I'm going to predict Seth, but I want it to be Finn, so Rollins is free to feud with Reigns.

*SmackDown Tag Team Champions The Usos vs. The New Day vs. The Bludgeon Brothers (Triple Threat Match)								  *
Prediction: Bludgeon Brothers have to go over on the biggest stage of them all in order to be a long term product.

*SmackDown Women’s Champion Charlotte Flair vs. Asuka								 *
Prediction: This could probably steal the show. Asuka

*Daniel Bryan & Shane McMahon vs. Kevin Owens & Sami Zayn								 *
Prediction: Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn after Shane turns on Daniel.

*Kurt Angle & Ronda Rousey vs. Triple H & Stephanie McMahon								 *
Prediction: Angle and Rousey will win somehow maybe via DQ, but Rousey will turn on Angle.

*WWE Champion AJ Styles vs. Shinsuke Nakamura								 *
Prediction: Nakamura

*John Cena Vs The Undertaker (if it happens)*
Prediction: Undertaker

*Universal Champion Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns								 *
Prediction: Reigns, or Lesnar wins dodgy because everyone is expecting Reigns to win (but its mania, they can't do that surely) and instead Reigns wins following night on RAW


----------



## bromley (Apr 4, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Rousey is proving to be very very green, especially on the mic, she's struggling. She needs someone to do the mic work for her at the moment. She's getting her cues and words all wrong. It will come with time, but for now, she needs to work on her wrestling and let someone else do the talking. Be that the Authority or even Paul Heyman, but Kurt Angle isn't the right choice. He's just as bad these days, and I can't think of another face manager. She certainly won't be going up against the other women in the division once she gets going without a target on her back anyway, so may as well just make her heel, in my opinion anyway. Besides fans love a heel these days so it's not exactly complete suicide, the merch will still sell. If she wants to emulate Roddy, he was epic at both!
> 
> For me it makes sense to just get the heel turn done early and work towards a massive face turn a couple years later. A build up to having a female match headline WrestleMania next year would also be in line with the companies direction. An undefeated Asuka Vs an undefeated Rousey. Champion Vs Champion. With Asuka going in as the babyface. Rousey can stay heel for another 12 months or so after that still.
> 
> ...


Heel turns? How 90s! 

Rousey is over and I think having her with Kurt makes her mic skills look a lot better!


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2018)

Miz & Maryse have some 'reality tv' show where the pregnancy and birth will be a major part of the story so I just see that stuff as cross-promotion.

I cant really comment on the Wrestlemania buildup as I havent been genuinely buzzing for the show for years now, and I dont watch the weekly telly often enough. It cant be the worse Mania buildup ever though, since theres been at least one in the last 10 years or so that was really, really bad, although I doubt I will remember which one that was. And at least the match quality wont suck for a huge swathe of the card like old-school WWF shows often delivered.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 4, 2018)

elbows said:


> Miz & Maryse have some 'reality tv' show where the pregnancy and birth will be a major part of the story so I just see that stuff as cross-promotion.



True, and they already come off as really likeable on Total Divas. This is going to make it worse. So surely they come back fan favourites.

(an ex army colleague, now living in the states, was at a memorial day low key bbq in someones back yard, Miz must not live too far away and he just dropped in, and stayed with them for a while thanking them for their service and had photos and beers with them, mate is not even into wrestling but knew i was so showed me the pics, he said he was really down to earth and came across a totally likeable guy)


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2018)

bromley said:


> Heel turns? How 90s!



If turns were limited to the 1990's then I doubt the Big Show would have reached such an impressive number of turns in his career (well over 30 turns I believe lol).


----------



## bromley (Apr 4, 2018)

elbows said:


> If turns were limited to the 1990's then I doubt the Big Show would have reached such an impressive number of turns in his career (well over 30 turns I believe lol).


Turning big stars doesn't happen much in wwe these days. People whose role is to create stars like Henry and Big Show can change when it suits. No chance of a Reigns heel turn and likewise Cena, the later due to his make a wish stuff.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2018)

bromley said:


> Turning big stars doesn't happen much in wwe these days. People whose role is to create stars like Henry and Big Show can change when it suits. No chance of a Reigns heel turn and likewise Cena, the later due to his make a wish stuff.



Ah well yeah, if you are talking about the very, very top level babyfaces then I get where you are coming from, and I'd say that before the attitude era it was also very rare for such things to be one of the WWF instincts either. They'd turn people up to the level of a Randy Savage if they had a long-term storyline reason for doing so (eg turning him babyface so he could eventually split with Hogan, torun heel and feud with him) but not the likes of Hogan or failed successors to Hogan like Warrior. More likely to leave or be fired than turn at that level!

A lot of people seem to think that if Vince still had good instincts for the business, he wouldnt have been so stubborn about giving Reigns a heel run rather than sticking to plan A and repeating it for years when it hasnt really worked. I dont think they would have been averse to that sort of turn in the old days when trying to build up a new talent to very top level. And it should be even more of a no-brainer these days given that most heels are not really hated. But no, they would rather be stubborn. I suppose this is understandable to the extent that the original business of pro wrestling involves bending the audience to your will and leading them along, rather than the audience calling the shots. But clever promoters in the past knew how to avoid that overt demo of who has the power by knowing how to run with what the audience was willing to give them.


----------



## elbows (Apr 4, 2018)

Anyway my main reason for groaning at a Shane heel turn is that WWF/E have been repeating the heel authority figure(s) angle for 20 years, and although people like Steph are quite good at the role, the gimmick in general has run its course no matter the people involved, and could do with being rested for an extended period. Although HHH is often used as part of authority figure stuff, I do have some hope that he recognises the merit of having wrestling tv shows where this is not the dominant dynamic. Its largely absent from some of the shows he is associated with being in charge of these days.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 6, 2018)

There seems to be a lot of worry about Asuka losing her streak to a Carmella cash-in. But, I've fixed it so you don't lose the streak but you still get a HISTORIC (TM) (and successful) first women's cash-in Mania-Moment (TM):

Asuka beats Charlotte, wins the SmackDown belt
Meanwhile, Alexa heels her way to a win over Nia - some kind of sneaky-ass roll-up, legs on the ropes, ref shenanigans sort of deal.
After the bell, Nia beats the living hell out of Alexa for this injustice. It's a righteous beatdown so she's still face.
Carmella runs in and cashes in on _Alexa_, thus switching to Raw. Maybe Nia stays in the ring and watches over this, and then fronts up to Carmella basically saying "that belt is mine and I'm coming for it".
This sets up the chase for Nia, carving her way through the roster (again? Meh, there's some NXT call ups due, so it won't necessarily be a repeat/treading water), and all the while Carmella is giving it the classic mouthy heel champ with a chicken's heart, always sneaking a way out of facing Nia until... I dunno, maybe SummerSlam.
Ember Moon then gets called up to SmackDown, chases Askua's title and finally breaks the streak like she was supposed to in NXT
Easy


----------



## cybershot (Apr 6, 2018)

She will defo cash in on the RAW brand. Even if it don't happen at Mania (it probably will, as I have also predicted above) with the PPVs all being dual branded going forward it will happen before the next MITB, although it would be pretty epic if she cashed in after the next MITB winner cashes in, and loses it straight away to Carmella. Is there a time limit on the MITB? Does it have to be cashed in before the next one?


----------



## cybershot (Apr 8, 2018)

Watching nxt takeover now. I really should put more time into nxt than just the take overs. It’s a far superior product to the main roster.


----------



## elbows (Apr 8, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Watching nxt takeover now. I really should put more time into nxt than just the take overs. It’s a far superior product to the main roster.



I watched it live as my bodyclock had drifted due to (thankfully quickly getting better) neck pain. Really great stuff as always! Think there were more moves in the ladder match that caused me to shout 'no! dont do that!' than there have been for many years, but maybe thats just because my neck was hurting whilst watching it?

I have lapsed at watching the NXT weekly show because it doesnt sound as good lately as it was a year or two ago, but I could be wrong and I seem to enjoy the TakeOver shows just as much despite missing the intricacies of the build.


----------



## elbows (Apr 8, 2018)

Spoiler



I got confused at one point during the Moon-Basler match and thought there had been a run-in by the invisible woman ramming Basler into the post


----------



## cybershot (Apr 8, 2018)

Also mauro ranallo is probably the best commenter they have. But weekly tv doesn’t work so well as per his smack down run but in terms of calling matches and not doing the other bullshit he’s up there with JR for making it feel authentic. Loved the mamma Mia chant when ciampa was sent crashing into the announce team. 

Every match was top draw again on the nxt card.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 9, 2018)

Spoiler: WrestleMania Spoiler



Charlotte Flair!


----------



## cybershot (Apr 9, 2018)

Spoiler: Spoilers



Good to see Mania was completly unpredictable as I pretty much got the whole thing wrong.

I'd like to think that was the end of Reigns superhuman push to be the next face of the company, but I doubt that it will be, the fact he survived so many F5s and getting colour will only end up being something they push once Lesnar finally does drop the title. Especially as they gave him the sob story with his wife and walking out the arena a wounded hero. Wether the colour will signify something as it did Austin WrestleMania 13 is to be seen, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but they need to quit trying to build this guy up, the crowd were completely occupied by something else for part of the match and were chanting this is awful.

All the years they've been trying to make Reigns a mainstream superstar the actual answer is staring them right in the face in Braun Strowman. His transformation from coming out of the Wyatt Family has been nothing but spectacular. Yeah it turns to the tag titles into a mockery, and how long can he go on just picking a (predetermined) kid out of the crowd to be his partner, a couple months tops, but the guy is so over, and this makes him even more likeable. He seems pretty cool guy in real life too.

AJ and Nakamura didn't live up to expectations, and the heel turns makes sense if KO/SZ are to be off our screens for a while. I almost feel the title changes for him and Asuka didn't happen purely because they are poor mic workers. It's impossible to be a champ of any kind in WWE without being able to work the mic or have someone doing it for you these days, no matter how good you are.

I assume we'll see KO/SZ show up on RAW now instead, but I hope they leave it a few months instead. KO could do with some time off screen if I'm honest.

Undertaker and Cena was a pointless sideshow where his entrance and leaving the ring took longer than the match. Cena seems pretty much done with things now and I can't see how he gets another title run, part of me thinks he doesn't want it anyway, who in their right mind wants to be up with their Flair now his health is so poor. Let the man's legacy live on for a while longer.

Rousey looked great, Angle looked in loads better shape from his previous two performances which was good to see. 

IC title match was a great opener, one assumes Miz will get it back at some point later in the year so he can deservedly break the record, but it will good to have a rest from him as champ for a bit.


----------



## bromley (Apr 10, 2018)

That Asuka match was a disgrace. It takes years to build up a streak like that and she loses it in her first main roster title fight on her first wrestlemania in the second match of the night when the camera kept flicking to John Cena? 

Flair, she's earnt the right to be called that, gains little from this victory and Asuka loses a lot. This is a match which could have main evented wrestlemania, and was far better than what did, and show how serious WWE is with its diva's revolution and they completed fucked it up. Likewise build up a Bailey V Sasha Banks fued very well to have them in some bollocks battle royale.

Just compare how well WCW dealt with Goldberg's streak compared to WWE and Asuka, and Asuka is one of the best wrestlers on the roster.

I think you're right about the Asuka mic work, I predicted AJ to retain as they couldn't have two Japanese champions with poor English, but you can work around that with something called a manager. How good would it have been to have Paul Heyman with Brock and Asuka as his clients? Simple fucking booking. 

Was strange how Asuka would appear on Raw facing Alexa Bliss and Mickey James and only appeared on Smackdown twice, there was definitely a switch in creative direction. That said the Alexa v Nia match was fantastic.

I think that match fucked up the entire show, I don't even need to mention the new Raw Tag Team Champions or taking Daniel Bryan out for most of the match. Shame as there were some great matches on the show. No concerns with Rousey going forward, although the Asuka dream match at mania is now worthless. The McMahons shouldn't feature in the ring again, Shane botching a pump kick!


----------



## elbows (Apr 10, 2018)

The only reason I cant get mad about the Asuka booking is that this is what WWE do and after well over a decade of going mad about it I've just had to accept it. They have their chosen ones and everyone else, including those with impressive streaks, are just there to lose to them one day. Its very rare that they make the most of situations they find themselves in rather than sticking to their original plan. Even when Daniel Bryan broke through the WWE glass ceiling in a big way they still resented it and even used their own attitude as part of the storyline. Oh well, at least Charlotte performed very well in the match.

As for Nakamura, his work in WWE has been a shadow of what he used to achieve routinely in Japan. I wouldnt make him a champion with that work rate, although this may be unfair since perhaps his body wasnt in a condition to keep doing new japan stryle matches any longer and thats why he ended up in WWE in the first place. Either way, his matches in WWE dont tend to live up to expectations.

I enjoyed Wrestlemania but there was way too much overly complex booking as the show wore on, the Undertaker 'match' was a terrible joke that taints his legacy (thought he was a proud guy, dont know why he agreed to this shit). I've got no sympathy for the crowd reaction WWE booking caused in the Lesnar match either, history already taught us what happens whent he crowd think Brock is leaving after a big match and dont care about his opponent (see Lesnar Goldberg back in the day). As swerves go it amused me but at the expense of a match.

Stephanie exceeded expectations in the ring (which admittedly isnt saying much), and having her resist various armbar attempts was typical bullshit but the match still worked out really well. Rousey can do enough else in the ring to fill in the gaps around armbar attempts nicely and as usual she has proved doubters wrong on a big stage. Personality issues still prevent me from betting on her long-term but for now its all worked out great and if they use her sparingly and keep her special they should be able to get plenty more out of her in the years ahead.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 10, 2018)

*Ffffffiiiieeeeeeessssssssstttttttttaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!.....*


----------



## cybershot (Apr 10, 2018)

Adam Rose MKII


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 10, 2018)

Braun's dad


----------



## bromley (Apr 10, 2018)

Braun's only appearance in NXT was as a Rose Bud. There's the link. 

I don't think WWE get what the fans want and by that I mean promote main event faces properly. Bryan got over despite the office, watch them fuck Braun up.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 11, 2018)

As Corey might say: yes, yes, a thousand times yes! SDL is looking a lot more Iconic! No Sanity, Cien or Ohno - perhaps they'll be saved for the draft?


----------



## bromley (Apr 11, 2018)

Ohno will stay in NXT as a wrestler/coach.



Spoiler



Lashley is back! He's improved a lot since he left and with him and EC3 in WWE   Impact or whatever they call themselves these days is not worth watching at all.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 11, 2018)

Wrestlemania was shit. I am angered about Asuka losing to Flair, but she needs someone to help her on the mic. I think Nakamura is really good on the mic, very funny guy. His match with AJ was a major let-down though.

Cena, Lesnar, Strowman, Taker, all wasted and pointless.

NXT on the other hand, was amazing! It's laughable how much metter it is!


----------



## bromley (Apr 11, 2018)

Yeah Takeover was fantastic, one of the best shows I've ever seen. You do hope for people to stay there and not get called up.

Cena calling out the undertaker during Raw was pretty shite but the way they did the stint at mania was good, bar John being ringside and the ref telling him that he's hear. Ellias being the surprise as good, but no one bats at eyelid of him getting squashed and the commentators asking if that's it. On that note much stick for Corey Graves and the hurricane reference in New Orleans? Undertaker can't work long matches so a quick nostalgia thing was good, although I think they should have left it at the passing of the torch to Reigns. Cena won't get hurt from the squash but Ellias is getting over and wasted big time. 

I guess 'taker will be an annual wrestlemania surprise now and not doing full matches, that's fine by me.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 11, 2018)

You know what I wouldn't mind, seeing established stars go to NXT. Especially as so many seem to get called up to the main roster after the likes of Mania, when perhaps, it's only done for shock value, and it really isn't their time, yet.

Ziggler would be an obvious choice, seemingly doing nothing in the main roster. He don't need to go over and win championships, just be a bad ass, create a stable or something. Do something with someone who has talent and could fit in, rather than waste away in the main roster.

KO and SZ going back for a short stint as part of a storyline could also work. Gallows & Anderson. Who look in great shape, but are still jobbing.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 11, 2018)

Smack down was really good. 

Paige is perfect for a gm role, don’t know if that was pure luck with the timing of things or if they had this planned all along if Daniel was cleared but I think she can be really good. 

I liked shinsake interview and played up the no English talk. His heel turn should see him light up. 

Bryan and AJ could have a really good match with the right build up and hype. 

The iconics and Carmella’s cash in was done really well and makes a suddenly stale smack down women’s division interesting. Thou part of me thinks it’s because Charlotte will be shifted back to raw. 

Only downside was why not have rusev win. Not looking forward to get more Orton/Mahal. It was boring just a few months ago. Why punish us again so soon.


----------



## bromley (Apr 13, 2018)

A stale women's division that could have been Asuka'ed...

I think Rusev will be leaving, his match in Saudi Arabia has been changed to Jericho V 'taker following his twitter post!  He's gotten over big time with a joke gimmick, likewise Aiden English.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 27, 2018)

Greatest (no pun intended) Royal Rumble moment ever?



It's a good job they wern't using the LCD aprons


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 28, 2018)

OSW Review is bogged down as it is - I don't want Maffew off to create 27 episodes of Botchamania from this shit-show alone!

Srsly, does anyone know what title Braun has just won? Damn purdy 'n' all, but WTF?

Actually enjoyed the Daivari stuff - nationalism is more enjoyable when Vinnie Mac may start a real war. Anyone would think he was bffs with T_D. Guessing Sami Zayn told them to fuck right off.

Supposedly, they were paid $200 million to put on this shit show. FFFfffffff......


----------



## cybershot (Apr 28, 2018)

Yes. Zayn missing stuck out like a sore thumb.

I believe this is also a ten year arrangement. The card stank like an old uk rampage show, and even had the traditional cop out endings for title matches. The ic title match in particular was bizarre. I didn’t expect any titles to change bar maybe. Just maybe reigns winning as he would actually get cheered!!

I expected Lashley to win to set up feud with lesnar. How long before this doesn’t even get mentioned anymore on tv?

Good effort from DB thou. I had him down to win and when he came out at one I thought we were going to see him go all the way.


----------



## bromley (May 2, 2018)

Lots of people in the front rows standing up with their backs to the ring, that and Titus are what I will remember this show for.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 2, 2018)

The whole thing was terrible.

So,  I'm not sure it the Gargano v Ciampa match from NXT Takeover New Orleans has been discussed here? What a fight, maybe the best for years. If you haven't seen it, then I suggest you do.

Highlight was a ring full of teeth!


----------



## elbows (May 2, 2018)

Apparently when setting up the deal with WWE, the Saudi prince said he wanted the Undertaker, the Ultimate Warrior and Yokozuna at the show!  Which explains why we got the random sumo dude in the rumble and quite a lot of large people.


----------



## bromley (May 3, 2018)

elbows said:


> Apparently when setting up the deal with WWE, the Saudi prince said he wanted the Undertaker, the Ultimate Warrior and Yokozuna at the show!  Which explains why we got the random sumo dude in the rumble and quite a lot of large people.


That's Brilliant! 


mwgdrwg said:


> The whole thing was terrible.
> 
> So,  I'm not sure it the Gargano v Ciampa match from NXT Takeover New Orleans has been discussed here? What a fight, maybe the best for years. If you haven't seen it, then I suggest you do.
> 
> Highlight was a ring full of teeth!


Class match as was the whole PPV. Sadly the excellent title match will be forgotten due to the grudge match. Fair to say 'mania was a big step down.


----------



## bellaozzydog (May 3, 2018)

Never watched wrestling other than big daddy versus giant haystacks live at my local cinema in the early 80's 

But just been reading about Andy Kaufman and his wrestling activities, fascinating


----------



## elbows (May 3, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> But just been reading about Andy Kaufman and his wrestling activities, fascinating



I think he got a huge kick out of the audience manipulation aspects of pro wrestling.


----------



## cybershot (May 6, 2018)




----------



## elbows (May 9, 2018)

The Saudi propaganda show and the piece of shit that was the Backlash PPV gave me the push I've been looking for to knock my WWE habit on the head. New Japan stuff will be the only wrestling I watch for at least the next 6 months, barring some truly earth-shattering WWE development such as Vince no longer being in charge.


----------



## bromley (Jun 19, 2018)

Asuka is now just another lady on the roster, same as Becky Lynch.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 19, 2018)

Indeed. 

MITB was poor. Did enjoy Bliss cashing in thou, and the Rousey breakdown on RAW sounded good.

NXT Takeover however was bloody brilliant.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 19, 2018)

NXT UK anyone?


----------



## cybershot (Jun 19, 2018)

I saw tickets were still available, and was very temped, but London is a pain in the arse for me midweek.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 19, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I saw tickets were still available, and was very temped, but London is a pain in the arse for me midweek.



I'm talking about the launch of "NXT UK", the new brand. Have you heard about it? Tickets go on sale on the 29th.

WWE launches new U.K. series

*LONDON, England and STAMFORD, Conn. *– WWE today announced that tickets will be available Friday, June 29, for eight Live Events that will be taped for NXT UK, a new United Kingdom series featuring the greatest competitors from the United Kingdom and Ireland.

The U.K. Championship, plus two new championships —  the U.K. Women’s Championship and U.K. Tag Team Championship — will be on the line at the following NXT UK events:


Saturday, July 28, and Sunday, July 29, at the Corn Exchange, Cambridge
Saturday, Aug. 25, and Sunday, Aug. 26, as part of Insomnia, the U.K.’s biggest gaming festival, at NEC Birmingham
Saturday, Oct. 13, and Sunday, Oct. 14, at Plymouth Pavilions
Saturday, Nov. 24, and Sunday, Nov. 25, at Liverpool Olympia 
Tickets for the events in Cambridge, Plymouth and Liverpool will be available via www.livenation.co.uk, and tickets for the Birmingham events will be available via www.insomniagamingfestival.com. Further information will be available at www.wwe.com/events.

“The U.K. has an amazing talent base and incredibly passionate fans that are deserving of their own showcase,” said Paul “Triple H” Levesque, WWE Executive Vice President, Talent, Live Events & Creative. “This is the next step in our ongoing strategy to create localized content and further develop our brand globally.”

Quite fancy going to a LIverpool show.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 19, 2018)

No. Missed that announcement. (I tend to skip forward through all the BS between matches) 

Will watch the UK tournament and make a decision.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 20, 2018)

Well, I hate to fly in the face of popular opinion, but I thought MITB was a very good show - one of the best main roster shows I've sat through in its entirety since I returned to wrestling four/five years ago. There were five good to very good matches with a couple of stinkers thrown into the mix.

My only real dislike (and it IS a biggie) was seeing Asuka lose clean. I love Asuka. I've always loved Asuka. I'd turn straight for Asuka in an instant. No need for Ellsworth to return at this point, or for Asuka to be the fallguy if this _was _deemed necessary - they could've easily stuck Naomi/Becky/Charlotte in her place.

DBry v Cass was pointless, but at least Bryan won and ended the tedious feud. Sadly, it's been reported that Cass was fired immediately prior to tonite's SD show. Shame, he seemed a nice guy, and I'd've loved to see him put back into a (semi-credible) tag team - idealy with Drew Gulak.

Roman v Jinder was always gonna be hated, but I thought the match was alright, and Sunil Singh had a chance to show his comedy/acting chops. I seriously hope they keep this guy on when the Jinder affiliation is brought to a close - the guy is worth his cruiserweight in gold.

I didn't agree with either MITB winner, but I've no huge issues either - both matches were great. I both wanted and believed the Miz would win for the men, as the AJ/Nakamura feud is dead, and the next big one on SD should be Miz/Bryan - and the Miz deserves one of the big belts, dammit! Strowman is a bit of a waste, as they already could've done Strowman/Lesnar at Summerslam with objection from no-one.

The WWE title match was about as good as they could have done since this feud just hasn't clicked. Welcome to the midcard, Shinsuke, it's as far as you are going from now on.

The Raw women's match was excellent, obviously plotted out move-by-move and practiced extensively, and it paid off. I didn't want to see the belt back on Alexa (I've complained previously that she was a dead duck champion from the moment Paige returned) but her actions on Raw have made her a real heel in the fans' eyes for the first time. Ronda's gone for a month (filming?) so I guess Nattie's doing jobs for the Riott Squad.

The match I was most looking forward to was the IC match, and I loved it. After events on Raw last night, I'd say both men are likely hold the universal championship in the near future.


----------



## bromley (Jun 20, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> My only real dislike (and it IS a biggie) was seeing Asuka lose clean. I love Asuka. I've always loved Asuka. I'd turn straight for Asuka in an instant. No need for Ellsworth to return at this point, or for Asuka to be the fallguy if this _was _deemed necessary - they could've easily stuck Naomi/Becky/Charlotte in her place.


Glad it's not just me. The way WCW sold the Goldberg streak, which Asuka topped to no fan fare and was then kept strong afterwards (ending the streak required the NWO Wolfpack and a tazer gun from a turning Scott Hal) was booking 101. Shame history get rewritten and not learnt from the winners. Goldberg couldn't promo either and was mute for most of the run.

There better be a decent storyline as to why she stared at Elsworth for so long!


----------



## elbows (Jun 20, 2018)

bromley said:


> There better be a decent storyline as to why she stared at Elsworth for so long!



Normally when someone is made to look stupid as a result of such distractions, there is never a good explanation.

I know I had plenty of other reasons to stop watching WWE, but some of the stuff they've done in regards wasting Asukas potential get to the heart of why I cant watch at the moment. Its just too disheartening, knowing that when people actually get over big time the WWE will still blow it most of the time. 

I'm also enjoying NJPW so much, what a great era this is for them. Multiple 'best match of the year' candidates every year, Dave Meltzers star rating system in tatters, home of the main contenders for 'best wrestler in the world' and the latest Okada v Omega match being considered by many to be the best match they've ever seen. Not seen that one myself yet, am slowly working my way through the show its on and cant wait to see it.

Also, RIP Vader.


----------



## bromley (Jun 20, 2018)

R.I.P. Vader.

New Japan is great as is NXT and I'm off to the next takeover.  Should have the blow odd match in the Ciampa v Gargano fued.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 25, 2018)

Uk championship night one on Wwe network now for anyone that has it or has other sources.


----------



## elbows (Jun 25, 2018)

Ah yes, WWE bothering with the UK plans again since ITVs competing plans were confirmed, though I've forgotten when the ITV stuff is supposed to start airing (July?). I will try to watch that stuff at some point, thanks for the reminder.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 25, 2018)

Some decent matches on night one. The 6 man tag between dunne/bate/seven and undisputed era was particularly good. 

Night two should be solid with a heavy nxt presence.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 25, 2018)

elbows said:


> Ah yes, WWE bothering with the UK plans again since ITVs competing plans were confirmed, though I've forgotten when the ITV stuff is supposed to start airing (July?). I will try to watch that stuff at some point, thanks for the reminder.



Indeed. Looks like Wwe are in bed with progress and icw which hopefully works out for those guys still. Apparently their content could end up on wwe network. One wonders how long before they just buy them out if it takes off. It’s a business model that’s worked for decades for them and doesn’t seem to be changing.


----------



## bromley (Jun 26, 2018)

Seems like WWE are taking them out before they become a threat.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 27, 2018)

Haven't watched the UK shows yet, but did enjoy last night's RAW, what with my BOY Dash Wilder pinning Roman clean*

*Any distraction leading to the roll-up finish being caused by Roman's partner, Lashley, so it's fucking clean in my view


----------



## cybershot (Jun 27, 2018)

Think I was expecting the 2nd night of the UK show to be something amazing. The tag title change (which had been spoiled by WWE anyway) was an ok match but not up there with the one that took place in Chicago which blew my mind. Adam Cole's match was ok. As was the UK title match. Blazer's female title matches have been snooze fests, but that's down to her style. 

Still also getting my way through NJPW Dominion. Just watched the Jericho match before switching over to night 2 of UK Tourney, and it was pretty brutal.


----------



## bromley (Jun 27, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Haven't watched the UK shows yet, but did enjoy last night's RAW, what with my BOY Dash Wilder pinning Roman clean*
> 
> *Any distraction leading to the roll-up finish being caused by Roman's partner, Lashley, so it's fucking clean in my view


The Revival have been used so poorly, and the backstage skit on Raw with Authors of Pain and Titus and Apollo.


----------



## elbows (Jul 4, 2018)

bromley said:


> Seems like WWE are taking them out before they become a threat.



I think potential ITV show success is the only thing the WWE will try to preempt. They have a history of trying to crush competition that plays on a certain level, but not those below that level. The indies dont threaten them so they wont try to crush them, although they may use them in damaging ways. ITV is the threat, because of the TV potential. WWE audience figures on Sky for Raw and Smackdown are quite pathetic really, so it wouldnt take much ITV success to make them feel insecure.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 4, 2018)

I can't imagine Sky figures for WWE are all that anyway. Do people seriously still pay Sky Box Office for PPVs, when it's cheaper on the WWE Network and you get a shit ton more for the price for the whole month. Sky don't even show replays in HD either so you have to watch it or record the live showing for HD.

I'm guessing WWE don't make any money from ad time sold in the UK on Sky, and Sky just pay them whatever the terms of the current deal are.

Will be interesting to see how important WWE is to Sky's portfolio going forward, they seem to be willing to lose sports left right and centre at the moment just to keep a monopoly on the Premier League which they are slowly losing. I certainly don't think WWE needs Sky anymore like it did back in the day so it wouldn't surprise me if Sky and WWE go separate ways soon enough. The last deal was struck before WWE Network launched and ends next year, and no doubt WWE will want more money than the current deal which Sky may bulk at.

Formula One is already putting pressure on them, because Liberty obviously want to push their own Internet coverage also, so will be interesting to see how that evolves in the coming years.

Would be good to actually get current week RAW/Smackdown on WWE network, even if it was a UK only thing. Wouldn't stop the US VPN users then using UK IPs to access RAW/Smackdown and would WWE even care? Again probably not, but USA/Fox/Hulu probably would at some point if they didn't actively try to block VPN users.



> Besides, it was also revealed that the WWE is in talks with Sky and other television partners in the UK



WWE News: Huge update on WWE's TV deals in the US, UK & India

Interesting times, perhaps we'll even see WWE on ITV when the Sky deal is up next year!!


----------



## bromley (Jul 6, 2018)

Sky would be no loss to WWE, they've signed a couple of massive deals for Raw & Smackdown recently.


----------



## elbows (Jul 6, 2018)

As I already said, the viewing figures for WWE on Sky arent very good. But WWE still fears any competition getting a better foothold on UK television, because that will affect their overall standing in the country and they always want to come across as the biggest and the best. And if a competitor gets good ratings on UK tv, perceptions will start to shift.

And yeah, the amount of money they were making from US tv deals was already large enough to change the nature of the business, and thats even more true now with the new deals this year. eg I dont think they would have stuck with the idea that Roman Reigns should be their top guy for so many years if their business was still reliant on PPV and house show money. Now they are basically a tv content creation company and they can make all sorts of mistakes repeatedly without killing their business.


----------



## elbows (Jul 19, 2018)

I see the 10 week initial run of WOS wrestling on ITV starts on Saturday 28th July at 5pm. I shall watch at least the first one and see how it is.

On the WWE front its gone as I expected - I'm still not sad at all to have given up on their main programming, but it sounds like I have missed some great NXT episodes including a Moustache Mountain match that had people raving and that I must track down.

I remain well behind at trying to follow NJPW and now its G1 season where I am just going to get way further behind.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 20, 2018)

I'm just about done now. Watching is a fucking chore.

Having Asuka, undefeated for over two years, the longest reigning champion since the '80s, arguably the most over hard bastard in the company lose repeatedly to Carmella. Well, that's it.

The Universal, US, Raw Tag and SD Women belts are completely worthless.

I'd like to think they can save things - Fire Lesnar, flip Roman (for keeps) and Lashley, move the Usos to Raw, make Rollins 'the' guy, put the big belt on the Miz and build to him v Bryan at Summerslam/Survivor Series, and recreate the Bayley/Sasha feud exactly as it happened on NXT, but I'm not hopeful.

It was suggested on /r/SC that Hogan is being brought back solely so that he can raise Lashley's hand at SS, and I can believe it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 20, 2018)

elbows said:


> I remain well behind at trying to follow NJPW and now its G1 season where I am just going to get way further behind.


Yeah, I've had real trouble keeping up too. Definitely want to try and change my watching habits and move away from WWE (where I only watch the PPVs anyway). Would also like to check out more of the indies too. Hoping if I get a Chromcast hooked up to my TV that'll make me more inclined to stream stuff.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 20, 2018)

I think once Lesnar goes things will pick back up.


----------



## elbows (Jul 20, 2018)

Lesnar wont necessarily go, and if he does it wont solve issues such as a lot of talent being doomed on the main roster. I hear that they ruined Andrade Cien Almas and his manager, at least so far. 

Honestly, there is just too much fuckwittery at the top. A notable one is that they thought the lesson to learn from the whole 'fans getting massively behind Daniel Bryan' thing some years back is that the best way to get talent over is to repeatedly beat them


----------



## cybershot (Jul 20, 2018)

I will be slightly annoyed if they fuck up Miz Vs Bryan.

As Nine Bob Note said above it would be much better to get Miz in the title scene first, win the title (he deserves another run) and then set up the Bryan Vs Miz feud properly and it can run for several months. With a potential WrestleMania conclusion.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 21, 2018)

Steph will be making a royal speech on Monday, almost certainly relating to the "women's revolution". Internet pretty united in belief it's the creation of a women's tag division. More worthless belts to clog up PPVs incoming.


----------



## elbows (Jul 21, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Steph will be making a royal speech on Monday, almost certainly relating to the "women's revolution". Internet pretty united in belief it's the creation of a women's tag division. More worthless belts to clog up PPVs incoming.



The rumour I heard was that she will announce a women-only pay-per-view. Not that they are only available on pay-per-view anymore but I find it hard to drop that term.


----------



## elbows (Jul 21, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I will be slightly annoyed if they fuck up Miz Vs Bryan.
> 
> As Nine Bob Note said above it would be much better to get Miz in the title scene first, win the title (he deserves another run) and then set up the Bryan Vs Miz feud properly and it can run for several months. With a potential WrestleMania conclusion.



I think I heard it is likely to be Miz v Bryan at Summerslam. Kane apparently has an achilles injury so team hell no is finished.


----------



## bromley (Jul 23, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I'm just about done now. Watching is a fucking chore.
> 
> Having Asuka, undefeated for over two years, the longest reigning champion since the '80s, arguably the most over hard bastard in the company lose repeatedly to Carmella. Well, that's it.
> 
> ...


Pretty much my take on it. Asuka is just another wrestler, they've seem to have remember that they have Becky Lynch again. The Revival are second to Asuka on my  level. I hate it when wrestlers get promoted to the main show.

As bad as the show is, and they won't flip Roman for merch reasons, NXT is great. I'm looking forward to takeover, may sell off the other 3 shows! 

Moustache Mountain v Undisputed Era is incredible, *a must watch.*

With ROH running the MSG the same night that NXT Takeover is running their Wrestlemania show at the Barclays centre hopefully they'll go all out. I would bring Jordan and Gable _down_ for a match against the Undisputed Era. 

The last sentence of your post is potentially one of the most vile things to happen since the Attitude Era.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2018)

Speaking of Hogan, I cant say I'm surprised that he failed to show any real shame and contrition when they brought him in to talk to the wrestlers backstage. I dont think Hogan could be sincere at this point even if he wanted to, he has lived in his own world of bullshit for decades. Fuck the racist idiot, and I hope all their Hogan plans are in tatters after his botched apology.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 13, 2018)

RIP Jim the anvil Neidhart. 

Jim “The Anvil” Neidhart passes away


----------



## bromley (Aug 14, 2018)

Flying out on Thursday.


----------



## elbows (Aug 14, 2018)

bromley said:


> Flying out on Thursday.



Enjoy  On paper it might be the best Takeover so far! I've watched a little bit of NXT in recent months and am continuing to really enjoy a long break from the main WWE shows. If I were an optimist then I suppose people like VInce totally losing their minds over ROH selling out MSG very quickly might result in positive changes, but really I have little reason to be optimistic about WWE aside from NXT. Worst case is they will throw silly money (that they got from TV deals) at the hottest wrestlers who dont currently work for them, and then not use them properly.

I got a Firestick so I can watch New Japan on my TV, though I havent even started watching any G1 shows yet I at least caught up with the June show that had the Omega Okada 'best ever match' and the brutal Jericho match that someone mentioned on here. It sounds like there are a lot of great G1 matches so I can spend months watching those on and off.

I tried watching the first few episodes of World Of Sport on ITV. The production/rapid switching of cameras does my head in and its largely missing what has made the modern UK wrestling scene great. I havent checked the ratings for the third show yet but the drop in audience figures between week one and two makes me think it wont be renewed after the initial 10 week run. I've only watched part of the NXT UK shows that WWE did a little while ago, seemed good but I seem to spend more time following wrestling news than actually watching shows!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 15, 2018)

elbows said:


> I got a Firestick so I can watch New Japan on my TV, though I havent even started watching any G1 shows yet I at least caught up with the June show that had the Omega Okada 'best ever match' and the brutal Jericho match that someone mentioned on here. It sounds like there are a lot of great G1 matches so I can spend months watching those on and off.


Was really hard keeping up with G1, but there are some astonishing matches in there. Ibushi/Ishii is probably the standout, just for how unrelentingly, uncomfortably brutal it is. They're not pulling anything.

A lot of people calling out Ishii as one of the stars of the tournament, and he certainly had a lot of great matches. I also quite enjoyed Yano, as you got to see a lot of wrestlers doing something different.

The G1 was really good for that in general - the chance to see matches you might not normally see, because the competitors don't cross paths as much in 'storyline mode'. Further down the card, Page put in a good showing and the BCOG were a constant evil presence hanging over the tournament.


----------



## bromley (Aug 16, 2018)

Pete Dunn v Zac Gibson for the UK title on the undercard!


----------



## bromley (Aug 19, 2018)

Best show I have ever been too. Crowd were red hot for the undisputed era.

Now for 6 hours of Summerslam.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2018)

bromley said:


> Best show I have ever been too. Crowd were red hot for the undisputed era.



I was in awe of the show when watching it on telly. I got burnt out by the quality matches and have yet to watch the last couple, went to bed instead.

I cant imagine watching Summerslam in one go, the length of NXT shows is so much better!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 20, 2018)

Wasn't blown away by Takeover tbh.

Naturally, being a tag guy I loved TUE (not the best acronym in sports, perhaps) v MM. No surprises as to the result, Bate and Seven will be needed elsewhere soon. Dream v EC3 didn't do it for me. Was glad to see Dream get a big win, and loved his tights and the fantastic finish, but I'm not sold on Carter. Cole v Ricochet was great, and the result was interesting, as I did think maybe Cole would get to play Triple H and have all the belts at once before leaving the promotion. The women's match, again, no big surprise - having Ronda and friends in the crowd only confirmed WWE's plans for Survivor Series. Enjoyed the main event - more refined that their three-and-a-half-hour five-star match. Love JW's ring gear. Was surprised this wasn't a cage match being as it's their third encounter, but I suppose Black was originally figured into this. Waay better than Summerslam will be tmoz, but probably one of my least favourite Takeovers to date.

NB: Fan photo taken from behind Matt Riddle showed he refused to wear shoes to the gig, despite the flash suit. Only foreign savages are allowed to wrestle barefoot in WWE - any ideas where he'll be billed from?


----------



## bromley (Aug 20, 2018)

Didn't know about the shows!

I thought takeover was amazing. My mate isn't an EC3 fan either, guess having watched him in Impact  may influence me. The finish for the main event was class.

Summerslam wasn't too bad. Some matches were short and sweet, one of them I was pleased with the other I wasn't!

Off to raw tonight.


----------



## elbows (Aug 20, 2018)

I gave up on Impact before the EC3 era and have barely seen him on NXT (my viewing can be a tad sporadic), so I cant say much about him yet. But I will say for all Velveteen Dreams greatness, he is still a little bit green in a couple of places, and still needs the right opponent to cover those slight flaws in his game.

I'm glad I dont have to book wrestling shows to satisfy Nine Bob Note


----------



## elbows (Aug 20, 2018)

bromley said:


> Summerslam wasn't too bad. Some matches were short and sweet, one of them I was pleased with the other I wasn't!
> 
> Off to raw tonight.



I've watched a bit of SummerSlam so far, despite all my ranting about the main WWE roster I do find it hard to give up on the 'big four' PPVs, mostly for nostalgic reasons.

Enjoy Raw. I dont think I've been to a live wrestling show since SummerSlam 92 at Wembley!


----------



## cybershot (Aug 21, 2018)

Still need to watch NXT.

Don't get the rave reviews SummerSlam has been getting and pretty much agree with all you guys above. It was ok. Matches were booked well enough, but the action itself was ok, nothing more.

Don't understand why Owens was squashed unless it was a time thing, that pissed me off.

Two DQ finishes for title matches at SummerSlam is a bit of a cop out, the matches themselves were good enough as well.

Uni Title match was well booked but looked untidy.

Raw already sounds a better show for having a champion that shows up! Just hope his run doesn't last too long, but seems pointless having Strowman as number one contender when he already has the briefcase.


----------



## bromley (Aug 21, 2018)

elbows said:


> I've watched a bit of SummerSlam so far, despite all my ranting about the main WWE roster I do find it hard to give up on the 'big four' PPVs, mostly for nostalgic reasons.
> 
> Enjoy Raw. I dont think I've been to a live wrestling show since SummerSlam 92 at Wembley!


Nice show to go to! I would recommend the UK indy scene. 



cybershot said:


> Still need to watch NXT.
> 
> Don't get the rave reviews SummerSlam has been getting and pretty much agree with all you guys above. It was ok. Matches were booked well enough, but the action itself was ok, nothing more.
> 
> ...


Guess because expectation was low?

Got a feeling Owens may have got injured in the match? Perhaps the spot on the ramp. He wasn't on Raw either.


----------



## bromley (Aug 21, 2018)

Hell in a cell being the next PPV takes some shine off of Summerslam.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 22, 2018)

bromley said:


> Got a feeling Owens may have got injured in the match? Perhaps the spot on the ramp. He wasn't on Raw either.



Nah, Owens doesn't get injured. He'll kill himself for our entertainment one day, but he won't be injured in the meanwhile. 100% it was "See this, you smarky cunts, we're keeping Strowman fresh because... well, err... maybe he'll be back later to do, err, _something??_ Don't you dare get up and walk out during Reigns' entrance or start any of your beachball shit. Wink wink" 

I enjoyed SS, especially Miz/Bryan which went as I wanted/predicted. I hope Maryse is back for keeps - an A-lister like Miz needs an entourage. Daddy Joe is awesome in all things. The IC match was great, though the finish surprised me, and although the Demon is wasted on Corbin (though to be fair to the good constable, he had quite the winning streak on Raw until the past couple of months) it reestablished Balor as a superstar, and the crowd were VERY clear in that. Vinnie Mac/Roaddog took the predictable WWE route with the SD women's title - try and turn the beloved underdog a heel - well, no surprises the crowd shat all over that. You want Charlotte as top face, so... she _was _over as a face... and now she's the female Roman Reigns. Well done indeed. That takes some doing.

I 'enjoyed' Raw too - didn't fall asleep once, which is rare indeed. My boys, Dash and Dawson, busted out some slick new moves (fuck off, Bully Ray), so maybe next week they could be having meaningless matches with Titus and Apollo? Fantastic main event with the Big Dawg and Man Balor (recharging his mana, presumably) followed by an absolute car-crash of an angle that (and I watched this as a total fucking mark) established that Strowman is now the only top babyface on the brand, and the Shield are all cheaty heel cunts!? Sorry, but that's how it came across to me. Rollins, especially, seemed to be relishing his return to the darkside. Fuck, I was expecting Balor to sprint back and make the save. I know I may be in the minority in this view, as I've heard people - right-thinking people - suggest that Strowman now team up with Lesnar. Srsly!!?  



bromley said:


> Hell in a cell being the next PPV takes some shine off of Summerslam.



Promoting Total E!volution and Taker v Tripers in the desert (relax, ladies, not _that _Desert) take the shine off Hell in a Cell somewhat


----------



## cybershot (Aug 22, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Nah, Owens doesn't get injured. He'll kill himself for our entertainment one day, but he won't be injured in the meanwhile. 100% it was "See this, you smarky cunts, we're keeping Strowman fresh because... well, err... maybe he'll be back later to do, err, _something??_ Don't you dare get up and walk out during Reigns' entrance or start any of your beachball shit. Wink wink"
> 
> I enjoyed SS, especially Miz/Bryan which went as I wanted/predicted. I hope Maryse is back for keeps - an A-lister like Miz needs an entourage. Daddy Joe is awesome in all things. The IC match was great, though the finish surprised me, and although the Demon is wasted on Corbin (though to be fair to the good constable, he had quite the winning streak on Raw until the past couple of months) it reestablished Balor as a superstar, and the crowd were VERY clear in that. Vinnie Mac/Roaddog took the predictable WWE route with the SD women's title - try and turn the beloved underdog a heel - well, no surprises the crowd shat all over that. You want Charlotte as top face, so... she _was _over as a face... and now she's the female Roman Reigns. Well done indeed. That takes some doing.
> 
> ...



There was suggestions before Ss that hayman will join forces with strowman. It seems feasible. 

Caught up with NXT takeover. Now that was a proper wrasslin show. Awesome again. Wish they would do the black out the crowd thing on the main roster show. Would stop the tossers throwing up signs every time a camera comes near them.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 22, 2018)

Smackdown sounded great too.


----------



## bromley (Aug 24, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Nah, Owens doesn't get injured. He'll kill himself for our entertainment one day, but he won't be injured in the meanwhile. 100% it was "See this, you smarky cunts, we're keeping Strowman fresh because... well, err... maybe he'll be back later to do, err, _something??_ Don't you dare get up and walk out during Reigns' entrance or start any of your beachball shit. Wink wink"
> 
> I enjoyed SS, especially Miz/Bryan which went as I wanted/predicted. I hope Maryse is back for keeps - an A-lister like Miz needs an entourage. Daddy Joe is awesome in all things. The IC match was great, though the finish surprised me, and although the Demon is wasted on Corbin (though to be fair to the good constable, he had quite the winning streak on Raw until the past couple of months) it reestablished Balor as a superstar, and the crowd were VERY clear in that. Vinnie Mac/Roaddog took the predictable WWE route with the SD women's title - try and turn the beloved underdog a heel - well, no surprises the crowd shat all over that. You want Charlotte as top face, so... she _was _over as a face... and now she's the female Roman Reigns. Well done indeed. That takes some doing.
> 
> ...


Owens wasn't on Raw so perhaps he was injured. The cash in tease was definitely to prevent people from leaving shitting on it. Raw's ending was odd. People were asking if the Shield are heels now. Second reunion?  A fight broke out over a beach ball! 

Big cheer for the Becky turn, hope that came across on TV! 

I meant AJ Joe went to a DQ because the next PPV is hell in a cell. They've booked themselves into a corner. 

205 had a great main event. Moved down to the good seats for that show after so many had left, yes they film it after Smackdown and not before!


----------



## cybershot (Aug 24, 2018)

bromley said:


> Owens wasn't on Raw so perhaps he was injured. The cash in tease was definitely to prevent people from leaving shitting on it. Raw's ending was odd. People were asking if the Shield are heels now. Second reunion?  A fight broke out over a beach ball!
> 
> Big cheer for the Becky turn, hope that came across on TV!
> 
> ...



Haven't read any reports on Owens being injured, I'm sure there would have been plenty had he got hurt.

Rumours that Rowan is injured hence the quick drop of the SD tag titles after SS, and that they may move Harper back to raw and re-unite the Wyatt Family (again) to take on shield. So who exactly is meant to be the heels? I can't imagine the fans turning on Strowman unless there's a proper drawn out story to go with it. 

How was the whole stay by the way? I really miss NYC and would love to go back for a massive wrestling weekender. WrestleMania is out of reach next year, just costs too much. I'm guessing SummerSlam's run at the Barclays is now expired, so they'll probably be trying to flog another long standing contract somewhere.

Quite looking forward to seeing how All-In performs. Hopefully someone makes it available on some sort of illegal system as I don't think it's possible to get it over here!

The podcast with Jericho seems them having some lofty ambitions including MSG, and now ROH/NJPW have sold out MSG on WM weekend, it's looking like Vinny Mac is going to have to start taking notice.

Was funny when Cody said Dustin has to keep telling him to stop doing stuff (didn't realise they had done a mock DX style invasion a couple months back) because he's afraid he's going to get sacked!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 24, 2018)

cybershot said:


> it's looking like Vinny Mac is going to have to start taking notice.


This is my big worry with all this stuff. We all know that VM's MO once he perceives something as a threat is to either buy it up or run it out of business. None of which I want to see happen.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 24, 2018)

Lord Camomile said:


> This is my big worry with all this stuff. We all know that VM's MO once he perceives something as a threat is to either buy it up or run it out of business. None of which I want to see happen.



Agreed, was interesting that Young Bucks said in the podcast they would properly never sign with WWE now, but because they have anything against the company or anyone there, but because after so many years of just being able to go out there and be themselves, say it how they want to say it, and pretty much call matches as they are in progress, that working a WWE show and having every last detail scripted, they just couldn't do it now.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 24, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Agreed, was interesting that Young Bucks said in the podcast they would properly never sign with WWE now, but because they have anything against the company or anyone there, but because after so many years of just being able to go out there and be themselves, say it how they want to say it, and pretty much call matches as they are in progress, that working a WWE show and having every last detail scripted, they just couldn't do it now.


That's interesting, because was watching a recent ep. of Being the Elite where they were saying the air travel and being away from their family was the hardest part of their life. Obviously WWE wrestlers are on the road a lot too, but maybe it's slightly easier as it's still predominantly in the US? Was wondering if that might make WWE more appealing. Particularly NXT, of course.


----------



## elbows (Aug 24, 2018)

There are plenty of reasons why many of these sought-after talents would have reservations about going to WWE, but if WWE makes really stupidly high financial offers to them then all bets are off I reckon.

The Rowan injury is well past rumour at this point, its been confirmed that he tore his right bicep and is having surgery this week (might have already had it by now for all I know).


----------



## elbows (Aug 24, 2018)

Ad for Owens, I'm afraid the WWE operates and wastes talent means nobody should be surprised that he was squashed quickly to get Strowman over as a monster.

Just another piece of booking that makes me think I made the right choice to mostly abandon watching the main WWE roster. That and things like the attempt to turn Becky heel which was already discussed here I think, I got so bored of them trying to do the opposite to what fans want, even when fans are handing them stars on a plate. Its not always easy to get people over and watching WWE squandering these gifts just because wankers like Vince want to do it their own way, even when he has booked with hardly any long-term planning in mind for many, many years now, well bollocks to investing my time in that.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 25, 2018)

Re the Becky/Charlotte farce, it looks like they may be backtracking. I've not checked myself, but the Cultaholic podcast stated WWE had edited the clips of SD that they stick on YT to remove anything overtly heelish.

Then again:


----------



## bromley (Aug 26, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Haven't read any reports on Owens being injured, I'm sure there would have been plenty had he got hurt.
> 
> Rumours that Rowan is injured hence the quick drop of the SD tag titles after SS, and that they may move Harper back to raw and re-unite the Wyatt Family (again) to take on shield. So who exactly is meant to be the heels? I can't imagine the fans turning on Strowman unless there's a proper drawn out story to go with it.
> 
> ...



It was an amazing weekend! My first time in NYC. Only Summerslam sold out (Was the TNA chant audible for the Styles v Joe match?) Nearly half of the upper tier, hard camera side, was shut for Smackdown so I'll be surprised if they did it there again next year.

A Royal Rumble would be my pick of events to go to, sadly it's in Phoneix this year, hence why i  did Summerslam instead. Wrestlemania in a stadium has never appealed to me, although the indy shows and the whole week of events like the hall of fame would be cool.

Toured the MSG and it is a lot larger than the Barclays Centre, which Takeover didn't sell out.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 3, 2018)

Caught up with all-in and while it was enjoyable I’m not sure it was as groundbreaking as dirt sheets and meltzer think it is. Probably more so for them as they were there and probably saw the whole day as a huge networking event more than anything. 

Not sure how you pull something off regular and keep selling it out without fully having ROH/NJPW/NWA story lines interweaved into it. I can see it working as there’s no doubt enough hard core wrestling fans who know their stuff and will go to stuff like this but there needs to be more to it than it just bring a fanfare and the organisations need to continue to get along.

But overall every match was great. There was comedy and fan service also, a nice blade by Cody showing how blood can play it’s part in telling a story in a match. WWE have the talent to have every match on a card be superb but just don’t seem to want to it or take risks. It’s clear their only objective is to make tons of money via merchandise and that’s via kids.

Honestly couldn’t spot a single under 16 year old in the all-in crowd. Not saying they shouldn’t be there but it shows how much the WWE main roster product is heavily catered for that demographic.


----------



## elbows (Sep 4, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Caught up with all-in and while it was enjoyable I’m not sure it was as groundbreaking as dirt sheets and meltzer think it is. Probably more so for them as they were there and probably saw the whole day as a huge networking event more than anything.



The groundbreaking side of things was not about the contents of the show, but managing to have a successful independent show on this scale. And I think Meltzer has been honest about not knowing what this really means for the future of the business, eg what else can be built on top of this success, will WWE go mad and aggressively try to drain the talent from their competitors, etc. I havent seen the show yet, apparently it is on New Japan World now so I will check it out sometime in the coming week.



> WWE have the talent to have every match on a card be superb but just don’t seem to want to it or take risks. It’s clear their only objective is to make tons of money via merchandise and that’s via kids.
> 
> Honestly couldn’t spot a single under 16 year old in the all-in crowd. Not saying they shouldn’t be there but it shows how much the WWE main roster product is heavily catered for that demographic.



I now thats how WWE comes across in this PG era of theirs, but if you check their demographics their audience is much older than you might expect and this trend seems to have been accelerating a lot over the last 10 years. I was quite surprised when I had a look at this stuff, its nothing like I imagined.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 5, 2018)

On the WWE front (I've not seen All In, but have listened to my usual podcasts reviewing it, and got the impression it was very Meh)...

Strowman is now officially top heal on Raw - the crowd were buying it, but I note Roman was the least visible member of the Shield Monday night, and he didn't have the red strap with him at all.
My boys, Dash and Dawson, were gleefully sacrificed backstage to allow the new lead stable to claim some gold. That's US, IC and Tag belts for ZigglyPoof in the past year.
AOP (Playing with Power!) now have Drake Maverick as a manager (why fire Paul Ellering!?)
Mr Glorious is tagging with Chad Gable (I actually like this).
The Bella Twins are back, and Brie hates her life so much she tried to kill herself mid-match in HILARIOUS fashion.
Any momentum Finn Balor built at SS is null and void as he's fed to the machine among men.
Moment of the night, as Taker comes out to threaten/challenge HBK (fuck, I've no time for him at all, I'm Bret all the way). Loved seeing Taker looking healthy, and bossing Michaels on the mike.


----------



## bromley (Sep 6, 2018)

I guess Paul didn't want to tour. Would be nice to see a proper tag team win the straps, especially one called the revival. 

Turning Braun heel.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 6, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> On the WWE front (I've not seen All In, but have listened to my usual podcasts reviewing it, and got the impression it was very Meh)...
> 
> Strowman is now officially top heal on Raw - the crowd were buying it, but I note Roman was the least visible member of the Shield Monday night, and he didn't have the red strap with him at all.
> My boys, Dash and Dawson, were gleefully sacrificed backstage to allow the new lead stable to claim some gold. That's US, IC and Tag belts for ZigglyPoof in the past year.
> ...



Just had a look at that Brie Bella botch. Faceplanting into the mat lol


----------



## cybershot (Sep 6, 2018)

Been listening to the 83 weeks podcast with Conrad Thompson and Eric Bischoff obviously talking about WCW during that period. A lot of Bischoff BS and long answers but its also a lot of fun.


----------



## bromley (Sep 7, 2018)

Being a big WCW fan, 83 weeks is my favourite thing right now!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 7, 2018)

I really enjoyed All In. Something for everyone, some great wrestling, but crucially it felt like people who love wrestling putting on a show for people who love wrestling.

With WWE these days it always feel far too much like a salesman selling you a product. I know that's absolutely what All In were doing too, but with WWE it's incessant and soulless, and there just felt like there was much more of an organic connection between performers and audience at All In.

Although I could have done without pile drivers where you actually see their bonce hit the apron* - I'm all for strong-style, but divvant fuckin' kill yerselves, lads! 





*THE HARDEST PART OF THE RING!!!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 7, 2018)

I guess with WWE the sale feels like a con, whereas with stuff like All In it feels more like an honest "we're going to try and give you the best we can" effort.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 17, 2018)

bromley said:


> Being a big WCW fan, 83 weeks is my favourite thing right now!



Finally the Bischoff Vs Flair episode is out.

Also for the first time in ages I decided to not bother with a WWE PPV and read the review this morning. Sods law, it sounds like a really good show. So I'll probably go home and watch it anyway.


----------



## bromley (Sep 18, 2018)

Yeah it was decent. Main event was a clusterfuck though. 

Currently listening to the air podcast!


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 6, 2018)

shameful to admit but signed up to the free trial to see undertaker vs HHH on the WWE network


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 6, 2018)

Well, it was complete shite. Enjoyed the Styles/Joe match and to a lesser degree the Alexander/Murphy match. Was looking forward to Miz/Bryan, and WTF? Either Bryan is legit injured, or they needed to save time for the OAPs on afterwards. I'm happy enough for Taker to come back for a five minute squash at Mania every year if he likes, but why was any of _this _necessary?


----------



## elbows (Oct 6, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Was looking forward to Miz/Bryan, and WTF? Either Bryan is legit injured, or they needed to save time for the OAPs on afterwards.



Doubt Bryan is injured since they've now given him a title match against Styles at the next Saudi propaganda show.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 6, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Well, it was complete shite. Enjoyed the Styles/Joe match and to a lesser degree the Alexander/Murphy match. Was looking forward to Miz/Bryan, and WTF? Either Bryan is legit injured, or they needed to save time for the OAPs on afterwards. I'm happy enough for Taker to come back for a five minute squash at Mania every year if he likes, but why was any of _this _necessary?



did you expect it to be anything else


but hey only start watching wrestling int he first place due to the undertake 

Kane might as well of not shown up look afraid to do anything that might damage
his political career..

saying that what would he have to do to upset republicans at this stage


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 6, 2018)

John Cena's hair lol


----------



## cybershot (Oct 7, 2018)

It’s all about the pay checks in Saudi. Taker has been past it for many years now and each one more match just gets more and more embrassing. At least with hogan he was always limited so you knew what you were getting and he could probably still manage to pull off a punch, punch, kick kick, clothesline, slam, big foot and leg drop today. 

Seeing taker limited to basic stuff is just painful to watch.


----------



## bromley (Oct 22, 2018)

Apparently WWE only made $2m from the first Saudi show.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 23, 2018)

Don't like the Roman Reigns character, but that's really bad news for the man.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 24, 2018)

Yes, it was a gut punch reading it on BBC News during my work break (BBC News - hell, even the Guardian felt obliged to report on this). I usually put Main Event on when I get home after my weekly food-shop on a Tuesday, but skipped straight to Raw.

Didn't like the Ambrose heal-turn being on this show - there were people in the audience with their heads in their hands, rolling their eyes, and that wasn't aimed at the character of Ambrose going baddy, but at the company milking this. I'm sure Roman was consulted and that this was all agreed, but using _this _injection of reality to turn someone heel when that was always gonna successfully happen anywayz, err... no.

So, refreshed babyface, Strowman, is to be U/C. Deserved, certainly. Who will be his challenger? Ambrose and Rollins will be tied up for months over the IC, leaving McIntyre, who was kept well away from the pin tonite. Elias - who I believe could easily be top heel against any number of top faces capable of carrying him, is now officially turned.

Cena and Bryan have allegedly pulled out of FlintstoneMania (and why wouldn't they, Cena is primarily an actor now, and Bryan can get work anywhere he wants). Supposedly, the decision as to whether to proceed or not will be taken on Wednesday.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 24, 2018)

I think McIntyre would be great in the title picture, and probably a better champion that Strowman. 

Personally I'd have preferred to see another tournament, I mean, Survivor Series. Hello, perfect name for a tournament, survivor ends up champ. Would have liked to see Balor Vs Rollins again, and Balor this time getting his run, especially as he just seems to be lost in the mid card shuffle at the moment.


----------



## bromley (Oct 24, 2018)

They're literally running a tournament at the moment to see who the best in the world is.


----------



## elbows (Oct 25, 2018)

bromley said:


> They're literally running a tournament at the moment to see who the best in the world is.



The clue is in the name on that one. Its part of the Saudi shit - they hate Qatar and Qatar has the football world cup, so they wanted a world cup of their own. So they have the finale of a WWE one. Honestly.

I'm also not surprised WWE is still hoping to do the Saudi show at this stage. And I wont be surprised if they still do the same overt Saudi propaganda segments during the show either, even though it could easily make for the most awkward WWE television since the time they turned a show into a Chris Benoit tribute after he murdered his family. Hell the propaganda on the last Saudi show was awkward enough, let alone doing the same thing under current circumstances.


----------



## elbows (Oct 25, 2018)

On a related note, the timing of the womens show being this weekend, and even existing at all, is also connected to the Saudi show. Because the women cant do the Saudi show, so to distract from that fact they gave them their own event first. I hate this shit, its so cynical.


----------



## bromley (Oct 26, 2018)

elbows said:


> The clue is in the name on that one. Its part of the Saudi shit - they hate Qatar and Qatar has the football world cup, so they wanted a world cup of their own. So they have the finale of a WWE one. Honestly.






elbows said:


> On a related note, the timing of the womens show being this weekend, and even existing at all, is also connected to the Saudi show. Because the women cant do the Saudi show, so to distract from that fact they gave them their own event first. I hate this shit, its so cynical.


Absolutely correct. It's also hardly been promoted at all. 

NXT was great this week.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 29, 2018)

Watched a few evolution matches. Was better than I expected. A shame the production values seemed that of a house show. 

Becky Lynch is great and I thought the rousey match was produced well to protect nikki’s shortcomings and it wasn’t to bad.


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2018)

Well I only watched the Saudi show for about an hour, just to see if they were stupid enough to do the same degree of Saudi propaganda as they did at the first show (they were not). So I just read what happened later in the show - oh boy and ha ha I am so glad I stopped watching.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 2, 2018)

It was bobbins. I fell asleep. Will be flicking through Monday's Raw in even less time than usual.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 2, 2018)

Who writes this shit.

Sounded like Michaels performed well though.


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Who writes this shit.
> 
> Sounded like Michaels performed well though.



Could have the best writers in the world, it doesnt matter that much so long as deluded billionaire Vince has the final say on things. I doubt the decent wrestlers are the only decent employees of WWE who get frustrated, so I generally go easy on the writing crew. I think even when at the top of his game Vince had questionable judgement at times, and those lofty peaks were 20 and 30 years ago now. I occasionally hear reference to Vinces memory being shot as well, which probably doesnt help.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 3, 2018)

OK, I've calmed down now, and if, IF, this Monday we see McIntyre turn face on Zigglypuff and then challenge Lesnar, I may come round. There's never been a British champion, and that's just silly. We're in Manchester this week, so... maybe. I expect to see Pete Dunne as well, or else they can fuck off.



cybershot said:


> Sounded like Michaels performed well though.



Immediately before I fell asleep, he was teasing keeping his hat on for the match, which Lolled me enough


----------



## cybershot (Nov 5, 2018)

Just casually walking around Birmingham on his own earlier.


----------



## bromley (Nov 7, 2018)

Manchester crowd let down the country on Monday. Sounded like a fucking Pantomime/world of sports show.

Sounds like hilarious sports during the Saudi show, which I want to watch! #Shockmaster.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 13, 2018)

I've not watched Raw yet, but by all accounts Jax stiffed Lynch, breaking her nose and giving her a suspected concussion. Naomi (straight shooting!) promptly potatoed Jax in retaliation. Prolly not the best night for me to put off Raw until the morning. Lynch is out of the Survivor Series. The next series of Total Divas should be, err... awkward


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 14, 2018)

Hadn't realised Beckyou is out of Survivor Series. That'd be a real shame if true, she's got the crowd behind her in a huuuuuuuge way, and the broken nose just added to that.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 14, 2018)

I'm assuming WWE will use this to make Jax the top heel of the two brands, but that means Lynch has to be the top face (yes, we already know she is), but where does this leave Charlotte and Ronda?


----------



## cybershot (Nov 14, 2018)

Think SD answered that.

Also, DB heel turn and NEEEEWWWWWWWW, I promise I didn't give him any tips in the photo posted a few post up!


----------



## bromley (Nov 14, 2018)

Spoiler! 

Still maintain they should have built this year for Asuka v Ronda at 'mania, ho hum.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 14, 2018)

Sorry, didn't think anyone was actually dedicated enough to watch the weekly TV shows religiously. Will use spoiler code in future. Would always use for PPVs for at least 24 hours. Do we need to agree on longer? Don't think theres any defacto spoilers rules on urban that covers TV/Sports?

Always find it really difficult to avoid WWE spoilers anyway, especially even when you go to BBC sometimes not expecting wrestling to be on the front page, and it is!!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 14, 2018)

That's just fucked up my main event for Mania


----------



## bromley (Nov 17, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> That's just fucked up my main event for Mania


Crowd went mad on Smackdown for the Asuka v Ronda tease. I can but dream.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 17, 2018)




----------



## cybershot (Nov 19, 2018)

Survivor Series weekend done and dusted.

NXT was again superb, Survivor Series itself seemed another clusterfuck of either pathetic or genius moments.



Spoiler



Why did RAW need to go over 6-0? I doubt FOX will be impressed. Especially in the male match where even a team implosion couldn't stop a rout, also no surprise none of the big men got eliminated.

Becky being out seemed a major loss for her, I get the feeling they didn't change the ending of the match much, and this really would have cemented Becky as one of the biggest anti-hero superstars on the roster. Instead Charlotte steals her thunder, perhaps that's how it will play off on Smackdown, because at the moment, you wonder where it's going with the womens division, surely RAW and Smackdown brands need to continue to collide all the way to Rumble and Mania.

Fair play to Lesnar, he sold more to Brian than he has done for the likes of Cena, Reigns and Strowman. He seems to have more respect for the smaller guys (punk, aj matches were also well done), which is weird, you'd think he'd want to protect his macho status in UFC.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 20, 2018)

Well I thought SS was fucking awesome. Full review later when at my computer


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 21, 2018)

Nine Bob Note said:


> That's just fucked up my main event for Mania



Then again...


----------



## cybershot (Dec 26, 2018)




----------



## cybershot (Jan 2, 2019)

Mean gene okerlund has passed away.


----------



## elbows (Jan 2, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Mean gene okerlund has passed away.



Yeah sad news, RIP Gene. I used to enjoy what he brought to the show when I was first watching WWF. And with the benefit of youtube all these years later, I can appreciate greatly his interactions with certain wrestlers in the years just before I started watching. Especially with Randy Savage.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 2, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Mean gene okerlund has passed away.



aww, tragic.

Look up some of his bloopers on youtube...


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 3, 2019)

He made the BBC News website! Another sub-editor with a peg on his nose, no doubt.

Yeah, loved Mean Gene. The NewGen era would have been far more bearable had VinnieMac kept 'Scheme Gene' Okerlund and Bobby Heenan. Anyone with a WWE Network subscription should make sure they watch the entirety of Legends of Wrestling.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 14, 2019)

Anyone watch the NXT UK Takeover show?

It was pretty enjoyable.

If Tyler Bate isn't on the main roster within 5 years, they've really fucked up!

Got tickets for the event in Coventry on Feb 22nd.


----------



## bromley (Jan 15, 2019)

Yes, it was a great show! I think the opener is a match of the year candidate.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 15, 2019)

bromley said:


> Yes, it was a great show! I think the opener is a match of the year candidate.



Trent Seven took a few blows, That elbow to the back of the head which but him open looked really bad.


----------



## bromley (Jan 24, 2019)

There has to be some sort of schmooze at the Rumble to set up a Charlotte, Becky, Rhonda wrestlemania threeway. Sasha to end the streak on Sunday?


----------



## cybershot (Jan 24, 2019)

I think a belt needs to be involved. Rhonda has headlined Raw throughout 2019 so far, so it wouldn't surprise me if they don't run with this being the main event, either way Becky has to be involved as she's the hottest thing the company have right now. Would prefer Charlotte to not be involved if I'm honest, so I'm kinda hoping she somehow gets wrote out of it come whatever stupid PPVs are in the way between Rumble and Mania.

I see Banks made a case for their to be less PPVs again, as it means stories don't develop well, I kind of agree, especially between Rumble and Mania, as there's always the eventual 'x challenges winner for their championship match' bollocks.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 24, 2019)

bromley said:


> There has to be some sort of schmooze at the Rumble to set up a Charlotte, Becky, Rhonda wrestlemania threeway. Sasha to end the streak on Sunday?


"schmoz". A "schmooze" would lead to a very different kind of threeway.


----------



## elbows (Jan 24, 2019)

I thought the NXT UK show was pretty enjoyable but I still havent fallen in love with NXT UK yet. eg I still get more exciting when a normal NXT TakeOver show looms, as it does now. Not that I've been watching the weekly NXT shows of either sort much in recent months.

I see there is a lot of talk about Rhonda being done with WWE after WrestleMania. Apparently she always wanted her pro wrestling run to be brief, and is keen to start a family and settle down.

I'm certainly enjoying hearing about how good the landscape is starting to look for wrestlers in terms of places to go, earnings potential, etc, ie the end of the grim lack of competition era that started with the death of territories and really kicked in with the demise of WCW. Although a fair chunk of this phenomenon is down to All Elite Wrestling, and although I see the potential with that organisation I also have my doubts. Way too early to judge though, dont even know what TV deal they have got yet.

I was a little surprised to hear that World Of Sport have been touring in the UK again recently, I thought their run on TV was not a big success but I havent been keeping track since then.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 24, 2019)

elbows said:


> I see there is a lot of talk about Rhonda being done with WWE after WrestleMania. Apparently she always wanted her pro wrestling run to be brief, and is keen to start a family and settle down.



I think this originally came from some podcast Flair (Ric) was on, although there's never been reliable sources, just dirt sheets (Is wrestling observer newsletter a dirtsheet?) , most seem to agree she's in a multi year deal. Although it would be interesting to see how WWE would deal with a pregnancy to one of it's top females stars. As I doubt they can put into their contracts that they physically can't get pregnant while under contract. I assume they have to continue paying etc like any other company would. Not that I'm even doubting they would have a problem with it considering how well they look after wrestlers who get injured now, but it wouldn't surprise me if they wouldn't be a little bit disappointed.


----------



## elbows (Jan 24, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I think this originally came from some podcast Flair (Ric) was on, although there's never been reliable sources, just dirt sheets (Is wrestling observer newsletter a dirtsheet?) , most seem to agree she's in a multi year deal. Although it would be interesting to see how WWE would deal with a pregnancy to one of it's top females stars. As I doubt they can put into their contracts that they physically can't get pregnant while under contract. I assume they have to continue paying etc like any other company would. Not that I'm even doubting they would have a problem with it considering how well they look after wrestlers who get injured now, but it wouldn't surprise me if they wouldn't be a little bit disappointed.



The Wrestling Observer would certainly have been called a dirt sheet back in the day, indeed probably the best known one and if I remember correctly the one that sometimes attracted stupid and counterproductive references by performers on mainstream wretling shows (didnt Hogan burn the observer on air once? More WCW stupidity).

In my book the observer is high quality wrestling journalism, and the term dirt sheet reflects aspects of the business in the past, not the quality and reliability of the publication. Back in the day a huge number of wrestlers and others who worked for wrestling companies used to read the observer and provide information to Dave Meltzer, but since Kayfabe was still partially alive back then, and there was the usual business politics, everyone had to pretend it was dirty, low-rent traitors to the business. When in fact the main low rent thing about it was the nature of the business it was covering.

There have been WWE pregnancies before, but every situation is different, and the Rhonda story I heard was about her quitting to start a family, not getting pregnant whilst still an active performer. And I go crazy when I hear about the bullshit people have to put up with due to the long running situation where WWE gets away with classing its wrestlers as independent contractors rather than employees.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 24, 2019)

I’ve just read the new report about rousey and the quotes coming from WON so apologies for being incorrect (well correct but not up to date) about the latest developments there.


----------



## bromley (Jan 25, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> "schmoz". A "schmooze" would lead to a very different kind of threeway.


Ha, autocorrect throws up some great changes. I won't edit it.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 25, 2019)

Been debating what time to get into work to watch this with my boss. We're going for 7AM, problem is, it's actually a pretty strong card for once. Bar (no pun intended) the SD tag match, none of the others are really skippable, knowing something will probably get given away during the rumbles, and the likelihood of people being in who have already been in action. The womens title matches in particular likely to have a huge effect on how the females one ends.

Can't see any legends entering the male one this year, would assume more likely to see NXT and NXT UK people step up to fill in any spots.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 28, 2019)

Royal Rumble thoughts then?



Spoiler



Sadly, with giving the fans what they want, things get really, really predictable. The one good thing about the rumble is, is that it can throw up some surprises and swerves, but this years really was just a case of going through the motions for both it seems. It was nice they felt they confident in the current womens roster to fill all the 30 spots and no cheap pops for legends. Was great to see Rhea Ripley in there, although was surprised Toni Storm didn't get an outing. The winners of the rumble matches were too obvious, although at least with the women there should still be some interesting stories to be told between now and mania if they don't screw it up. No surprises in the mens rumble other than Nia giving it a good go from the 30 spot. No Kenny, but we all knew that really wasn't ever going to happen.

Thought the two mens title matches could have been better, screw job ending for AJ & DB, although I think adding Rowan to DB is probably a good move in the long run, we'll see where it goes. Still prefer to see a DB Vs Miz Mania match, but I can't see it happening.

Thought Finn/Lesnar could have gone longer, but with the show including pre show getting close to 7 hours, you can probably understand the need to have a short match. Although Finn loses no momentum in the way Lesnar won, and the resulting beatdown.

Bit of a letdown overall, now begins silly season in the run up to Mania.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 28, 2019)

Oh, I've not watched Takeover yet (There's a spoiler in the rumble itself if you choose to watch that before Takeover) but on the normal NXT show last week the tag match between Birch and Lorcan Vs Barthial and Aichner is brilliant.

Don't watch NXT religiously, but yet to see Birch and Morgan have a bad match, if they arn't going to get the NXT titles anytime soon, evelating them to main roster wouldn't be a bad move, especially when both shows Tag divisions could really do with a shake up.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2019)

I thought TakeOver was great. I cant comment much on the Rumble because I had seen enough wrestling already and am not invested in the main roster stories or wrestlers. And main roster commentary normally takes the show down a few notches for me, so hearing in advance that JBL was part of some stupidly large commentary team for the rumble match did not make me keen to stick around. So in the end I only watched the show for an hour or two and then shut it off.

I think I know what you mean about predictability and giving the fans what they want, but I wouldnt put it quite that way. Because those are really important elements of wrestling and when done properly they are big parts of what made certain wrestling promotions absolutely great in various times and places throughout history. And some of the most stupid and audience-destroying wrestling failures came when promoters or bookers got a bee in their bonnet about fans guessing what would happen, and writing shit nonsensical stories in order to 'swerve them'. WWE will still do that shit from time to time when it comes to high profile storylines and feuds, so I am usually relieved when they stick to the obvious and logical, predictable and appropriate stories rather than a crap swerve. So, I think the problems with main roster WWE are mostly elsewhere. Failure to build stars, dreadfully fake dialogue, awful announcing, too many hours of tv to fill, too many restrictions on what is allowed in the WWE's template of a match. A huge roster with tons of quality, but they have trained their audience to know that 95% of the roster will not get a sustained push. Titles that mean little. Panic at ratings causing hasty proclamations about change, when nobody believes that any changes will be meaningful or the right ones.


----------



## bromley (Jan 29, 2019)

5 hours or whatever it was is too long for a PPV. I've seen up to the woman's rumble but skipped the smackdown tag match or something else.

I've seen all of takeover which was as good as always.


----------



## elbows (Feb 1, 2019)

I know I'm always moaning about the main roster but Daniel Bryans sustainable title belt was genius.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 4, 2019)

Halftime heat is worth a watch.


----------



## bromley (Feb 5, 2019)

elbows said:


> I know I'm always moaning about the main roster but Daniel Bryans sustainable title belt was genius.


He's class. Only WWE in this era would fuck up his return (and being the biggest face in the company) but his militant vegan gimmick is fantastic.

R-Truth has also been good value on Smackdown.

Raw, meh.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 8, 2019)

Kenny Omega Officially Signs With AEW - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 19, 2019)

Chyna going into the HOF (let's be honest, its just a cheap way of doing it, without actually putting her in proper) as part of DX (although DX going in also surprises me anyway with Billy Gunn working AEW) , seems to have caught the attention of that one BBC writer who has a bit of a love affair with wrestling as it's made the front page, not that, that really means much these days, there is also an article on there called 'podcasts that will make you LOL' I think that's one for the BBC going down the pan thread.

Anyway: WWE fans divided over Chyna in Hall of Fame

An article that goes on abut her being in adult films, but forgoing to mention X-Pac was actually also in some of those! 

Elimination Chamber was pretty poor. Hearing rumours now that a legend of some sort or someone coming back from injury may be getting the Mania match agaisnt Bryan. Why? Just give it to bloody Kofi and let them have a 30 minute 5 star match.


----------



## bromley (Feb 22, 2019)

They called up all the best NXT stars who aren't in Undisputed Era.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 22, 2019)

Assume it was a one off also, but the ratings spike to both shows I'm sure will turn Vinnie Mac's head.

NXT UK tapings tonight in Cov for me! I shall not be posting spoilers unless people actually want them?


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2019)

Do them but put them in a spoiler tag!

I dont know whether it was a one off, the panic has set in, probably due to a combination of crap ratings, it looking like they will face real competition for the first time in almost 2 decades, and the need to get Smackdown at least in better shape in time for its switch of tv network in the US later this year.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 22, 2019)

Dream Vs Gargano is good from NXT this week also, worth finding on a torrent at least if not got access to WWE Network.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 22, 2019)

elbows said:


> Do them but put them in a spoiler tag!
> 
> I dont know whether it was a one off, the panic has set in, probably due to a combination of crap ratings, it looking like they will face real competition for the first time in almost 2 decades, *and the need to get Smackdown at least in better shape in time for its switch of tv network in the US later this year.*



What do you mean by that last bit.

WWE has been so bad recently. Both my kids have dropped it like a stone, as have I.

Interested in AEW. It has to be better.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 22, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> What do you mean by that last bit.
> 
> WWE has been so bad recently. Both my kids have dropped it like a stone, as have I.
> 
> Interested in AEW. It has to be better.



Smackdown switches to Fox in October

RAW & Smackdown are hard work, I tend to just read reviews of the shows and then nit pick what I want to watch from it. This week was simply just the DIY Vs Rivival match, and the Dream Vs Gargano match from NXT.

I keep up with NXT UK currently, but only because I'm going tonight, after that I'll probably just nit pick that as well.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 22, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Smackdown switches to Fox in October
> 
> RAW & Smackdown are hard work, I tend to just read reviews of the shows and then nit pick what I want to watch from it. This week was simply just the DIY Vs Rivival match, and the Dream Vs Gargano match from NXT.
> 
> I keep up with NXT UK currently, but only because I'm going tonight, after that I'll probably just nit pick that as well.



the NXT UK takeover was the past PPV I watched. Have fun tonight!


----------



## elbows (Feb 24, 2019)

Sounds like there have been further backstage changes of late. We already had a whole bunch of people coming in as producers recently like Jeff Jarrett, Sonjay Dutt and Chris Parks (Abyss), and some leaving such as Arn Anderson. And now it seems Bruce Prichard (Brother Love) is coming back, probably in a role very high up in the creative team.

Even if Raw improved I just cant be dealing with a 3 hour show (even if I watch by means that eliminates adverts and brings that time down considerably). So I really hope WWE gets its act together in general and that Fox ends up demanding things of Smackdown that also help improve it. I think there were rumours that they will want less comedy on that show, and a more sports-like presentation, but this could be bollocks. We will see. Either way I'm sure they will give it a big reboot and treat it like the 'A show' for far longer than they did in the past when rebooting it, because Fox is one of the 'big 4' broadcasters and the potential audience is a different magnitude to other stations they've usually been on over the years this century. I will give the new Smackdown a chance for a month or so once the time comes, still feels like a long way off at the moment!

As for AEW, I have high hopes but there are so many unknowns at present. The All In PPV last year gives the biggest clues, and I was a fan of that show, since it incorporated many aspects that reminded me of old, pre 'Vice takes over the world' American wrestling in some ways that I like. Still, even though I really appreciate that style of presentation, the American wrestling I grew up on in my teens was late 80's+very early 90's WWF so there will probably be some stuff I like missing, that only a rejuvenated WWE is likely to provide.


----------



## elbows (Feb 24, 2019)

Oh yeah and Roman Reigns is making an appearance on Raw this coming Monday, so his battle with leukaemia has probably gone well. WWE have never really gone into much detail and are holding back info now so they can get ratings (classy business as always eh). But I believe the theory is that, since he fought leukaemia once before when younger, that he has a type that often reoccurs multiple times throughout a lifetime, but doesnt have as bad a mortality rate per occurrence as other types do.


----------



## bromley (Feb 25, 2019)

Think i downloaded a raw without adverts and it was around 2:15! The 5 hour PPVs are horrific as well.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 25, 2019)

Yeah I download Raw via torrents and without all the crap its 2 hours, fast forward past all the replays, ring entrances (except those I like) and any pointless skits and you can get it right down. It's ridiculous.

Never did talk about NXT UK tapings did I.



Spoiler



It was well worth the money a great night of entertainment, even if all the people I really wanted to see wrestle, didn't wrestle (bar Dunne and Walter), but did on the Saturday (annoying)

I've never seen a WWE show before that's recorded for television, and it's amazing when you observe the refs just how much they run the show. To sneaking in the ring and placing the belt on the floor directly in the middle so it was laid perfectly for when Walter put his foot on the belt to prevent Dunne from picking it up.

There were no major surprises on the Friday other than Noam Dar confirming his transfer to NXT UK, people couldn't understand a word he said so he got a lot of flak from the crowd which I think caught him off guard, and in the end added to it as I think the end game was to cut a heel promo. Kassius Ohno who had teased his NXT exit was the obvious transfer from NXT when they announced someone was also coming over, although he got a good pop, despite trying to be heel. Personally think he sucks anyway so wasn't overall impressed or thought it was a big deal and personally would rather not see him getting over UK talent that's better than him

Dunne and Walter tagged against the coffey brothers, and moustache mountain did a promo that was clearly more to wake the crowd after a couple of hours rather than be on TV but did not wrestle, there was no appearance from Toni Storm which I personally thought was bad, they could have at least had her cut a promo or bring her out to wake the crowd there were so many kids in her tee-shirt and young girls dressed up like her, especially near the ring where tickets were expensive that you just felt gutted for them. No Grizzled Young Veterans or Rhea Ripley either on the Friday. So despite not seeing a big portion of the people I wanted to see it was still a great night.

Of course they all performed on the Saturday or cut promos! Sigh. So lesson learned, go to the Saturday show as it's probably down to the venue being more full due to people being able to travel from further distances to get to the show. Viper also made her NXT UK debut on the Sat challenging Ripley.

Full spoilers and results from both nights below:

** SPOILERS ** WWE NXT UK TV Tapings From 2/22 - Wrestling Inc.

Spoilers: WWE NXT UK TV Tapings From Coventry (2/23) - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 3, 2019)

I had a boyhood crush on Ravishing Rick Rude. That's about all I can contribute here.


----------



## elbows (Mar 3, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> I had a boyhood crush on Ravishing Rick Rude. That's about all I can contribute here.



What I want all you fat, out of shape, internet sweathogs to do right now is keep the noise down while I take off my robe and show Tony Singh what he wants to see


----------



## cybershot (Apr 29, 2019)

Attended the for the love of wrestling convention on Sunday after being impressed from the Saturday photos plus it gave an opportunity for my sister to finally meet (for 20 seconds at the cost of £30) and get her lita merch signed (for £30) and for me to finally get my 1st edition of Bret hart’s book (for £40)  after forgetting to take it the last time I saw him at a comic con some 10+ years ago. 

Anyway it was a very well organised event and the general admission at £22 was actually well worth the money. There were plenty of free q&a sessions (I’ll link up the schedule at the bottom to save me writing all the names) the WCW/nWo one was really good and once ric flair got into grilling bischoff (who was there next to him with only booker t in between) he couldn’t stop and seriously also got the giggles about who ridiculous some of the ideas were. It was proper funny. 

Rob Van Dam was also interesting and very honest with his opinions. 

Bret’s Q&A was also good but perhaps I’m slightly biased as he is one of my childhood heroes. He emotionally got upset twice. Talking about anvil and then also talking about WCW, which he said at the start he wanted to avoid but a fan question about what he’d have done if he was still fit to wrestle after WWE purchased it got him going. Proper laid into bischoff (who I think must have left at this point) and called the whole totally shit. Got very emotional again about having to retire. Believing he could have gone another 10-15 years had bill goldberg not kicked him in the head. Heard him talk about it before but this time I suspect due to all the other shit going on in his life he really got emotional about it. How he’d never hurt anyone seriously and had it all took away from in on 2 seconds by a 330 gorilla who wasn’t ready to be in the type of matches they were putting him in.  Said he thought he hadn’t been able to live up to his catchphrase, broke down. And audience has to spur him on lots of ‘you are the best bret’ shouts. 

Undertaker was there as well but was kept behind a curtain all weekend. A ridiculous £150 to have your photo with him and he looked on the photos I did see that he really didn’t want to be there. I’d be pissed! 

Quite surprised at how popular these guys still are over here. Promoters  Said they hope to be back next year, I was skeptical about the event and the names they advertised as many not showing up. Think only Jeff Jarrett failed to show up due to a ‘American airlines’ problem but even sid and Scott hall managed to show up who are known for cancelling overseas appeareances at last minute. Probably better for them when they can go with a whole bunch of their peers for company. Would have loved to know what hotel they were in the Saturday night and seen them mingling in the hotel bar. 

Think the promoters who would have to mix up the names the following year though and couldn’t rehash the same Q&As. Would love stone cold to attend one of these. 

The schedule of the event showing all the attendees. 
https://www.fortheloveofwrestling.co.uk/schedules

Some of my photos.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 29, 2019)




----------



## cybershot (May 16, 2019)

Exclusive: WWE UK TV rights heading for BT Sport

Assume everyone is aware ITV also have AEW's Double or Nothing at least. Preshow will air on ITV4 while the PPV will be on ITV Box Office.

If you've got access to WWE Network or torrents, the WWE Network special The Holy Grail, WWE's most infamous lost match, documenting Bret Hart making Tom McGee looking like a megastar, is well worth a watch,


----------



## elbows (May 16, 2019)

My avoidance of WWE grew beyond the main roster, now I dont watch any of it any more, not even NXT. So AEW is my main hope for the future, glad their main US TV deal got confirmed and looking forward to the PPV - thanks for the info, I had missed the ITV announcement.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 16, 2019)

elbows said:


> My avoidance of WWE grew beyond the main roster, now I dont watch any of it any more, not even NXT. So AEW is my main hope for the future, glad their main US TV deal got confirmed and looking forward to the PPV - thanks for the info, I had missed the ITV announcement.



Same here.


----------



## cybershot (May 16, 2019)

Well, you may even get AEW PPVs taking place in the UK!

AEW President Tony Khan Talks Possibly Airing PPVs Live From The U.K. - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 17, 2019)




----------



## elbows (May 17, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


>



Haha oh god dont get me started, that original invasion angle and loss of serious competition was the beginning of the end for WWF storylines and product quality in general (a real tragedy since the actual quality of the wrestlers in-ring carried on getting better).

I like the fact they went to the trouble of using the original footage for most of that image, even sticking Hunters head onto Shanes body, and they replaced the Vince of 2001 with the more suitably aged recent version. The 'youthful' Vince of 2001 is still visible on the screen behind HHH though!


----------



## elbows (May 17, 2019)

How WWE handles the emergence of AEW could be quite an 'interesting' thing to watch though. I didnt watch the WWE hall of fame but I think I heard that sone snarky remarks were made about AEW during the DX induction, although I'm not sure if I'm remembering that correctly.

For the longest of times, Vinces public attitude towards competition was to ignore them, and usually not even acknowledge their existence. Even when they had Flair for a little bit in the early 90's they half-arsed the 'real worlds champion' angle. Only when they were losing the ratings wars with WCW for a time did they resort to trying to take the piss (shit billionaire Ted skits, DX turning up at the WCW building etc), and that period didnt last long. They barely ever acknowledged TNA during all those subsequent post-WCW years, while one of TNAs many, many mistakes was to reference WWE all the bloody time and come off like a 2nd rate WWE wannabe.

So yeah, hmmm, in many areas of WWE shitness I blame Vince and consider it likely that HHH will do a better job. But not in this area, because if you look at most of HHH's time in WWF/E, he has tons of form for really silly comments and politics on the mic in front of the live crowd, comments designed to bury others and put over himself. Occasionally its well done, plenty of times it was amusing, but it mostly comes off to me like a real sign of insecurity. And from what I heard from the Hall Of Fame, he is going to find it hard to resist doing the same with AEW. And its going to come off as low-rent and backfire with AEW chants at times.

If we are lucky then AEW will be good and stick around for a good run, and in the meantime WWE will eventually figure out how to respond to real competition by actually making their own stale shit better.


----------



## bromley (May 20, 2019)

Saw a MITB spoiler. 

I hope AEW does become competition as WWE (NXT excluded) is shit.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 20, 2019)

Don't even bother with WWE now, that MITB spoiler is shocking.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 20, 2019)

I don't like being smug about giving up on WWE a while back.

But I am


----------



## cybershot (May 20, 2019)

To be fair to MITB the second half of the show from the lynch flair match is all good stuff. The aj and Rollins match a contender for match of the year. Worth at least watching that. 

The men’s MITB match itself was also good. Balor took some big bumps. The ending was shite but it got the reaction Vince wanted. The pop when lesnar’s music played was loud (considering everyone hates him the initial crowd reaction was of pure shock) personally if he’d have done out as the last man and still took part in the match it would have probably still got a decent reaction and I could have got on with the ending in that case. 

But you’re all talking about it despite not watching it, so it worked!!!

Be interesting to see if this rumour of AEW actually making it a bit more of a ‘sporting contest’ with win loss record league table and what not is actually what they go for. I’m not sure long term that’s a plan that will work in the American market.


----------



## elbows (May 21, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Be interesting to see if this rumour of AEW actually making it a bit more of a ‘sporting contest’ with win loss record league table and what not is actually what they go for. I’m not sure long term that’s a plan that will work in the American market.



I dont see any reason why it couldnt work long term, so long as the pseudo-sports aspects are not the only ingredient, and I dont think any of the rumours suggest it would be the overriding ingredient. Going that way does largely rule some forms of wacky bullshit out, but a lot of those forms are crap anyway and are also things that WWE has killed its audience with over decades. And its still pro wrestling, they can still work various other forms of wacky shit into the mix instead if they need to.

There are some things they could do in that direction that wont work, and we dont really have enough history of how good their judgement is yet. But if I were them I'd certainly take this sports stuff into account in my plans, because it can be a useful part of making sure your fans care about the actual match results, titles etc, all things that have been damaged this century. 

League tables relating to win loss records can end up going wrong, but they can be useful tools if they help force you to make long term product booking plans rather than making shit up every week. Didnt TNA try this once and they fucked it up and lost interest within weeks? They were such an inept company!

Is it my memory playing tricks on me or did I mention a very similar rumour about Smackdown when it changes US television network this autumn, that the presentation changes would involve an attempt to make it more sports-like? Mind you that may not be much of a constraint for WWE, given Vinces wacky views about what sports can be (eg some of the gimmicks he tried with his last attempt at creating a football league).


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 21, 2019)

Wrestlers in Money In The Bank match were not told about surprise Brock Lesnar appearance | Wrestling News



> Aside from Paul Heyman (obviously), the McMahon family and probably Kevin Dunn, Lesnar’s appearance at Money In The Bank was kept a closely guarded secret and even the wrestlers in the ring did not know he would be coming out at the end.
> 
> PWInsider reports that the wrestlers in the men’s Money In The Bank match were told that there would be a spot at the end of the match with Ali standing on top of the ladder and he would be pushed off. They were not told that it would be Lesnar.
> 
> ...



Ffffffucking hell


----------



## bromley (May 22, 2019)

Was shit having him there with his arm on the briefcase looking at the entrance in shock. It would have been better if he had just set the ladder up when the music hit and he tried to climb as Brock rushed the ring, but yeah, television visuals and what not.

Regarding criticism of WWE, I have no problem with the matches, they're incredible, Nitro upper mid card level stuff! It's the booking and storylines that are awful. Daniel Bryan took the pin in the tag match against the Usos. He generally was the big star they needed to replace Cena who fans actually liked! Not sure how much his injuries still play in to it though? And Lesnar having the title for so long and not defending it was just stupid. His MITB win was go away heat, not wow i never saw that coming heat.


----------



## elbows (May 22, 2019)

I didnt have a problem with WWE matches back when I wasnt watching other companies, but after New Japan it was hard to be satisfied with WWE's template for a match. Still some great WWE matches, but when there is a whole show (and arguably these days in WWE, shows that are too long) of that stuff, the lack of template variety gets to me.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 22, 2019)




----------



## cybershot (May 23, 2019)

If you got 45 minutes to kill. This documentary  was apparently done by ITV of all people and actually makes me pretty excited about AEW. 

Surely if ITV are going ‘all in’ on this, may still depend on viewing figures, but you’d think they have already sealed the weekly show. Probably not announcing anything until start dates are confirmed.


----------



## cybershot (May 24, 2019)

AEW weekly show to ITV4 confirmed. 

AEW Confirms Weekly Show Will Air On ITV; Cody Says "WWE's UK TV Deal Sucks Compared To Ours" | Fightful Wrestling


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 24, 2019)

Bloody hell, I might actually start watching!


----------



## bromley (May 24, 2019)

cybershot said:


> AEW weekly show to ITV4 confirmed.
> 
> AEW Confirms Weekly Show Will Air On ITV; Cody Says "WWE's UK TV Deal Sucks Compared To Ours" | Fightful Wrestling


I believe the term is _FUCK YEAH!_


----------



## elbows (May 25, 2019)

Well I've ordered the PPV, not sure if I will stay up for the whole thing or stop at some point and watch the rest via a replay tomorrow.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 25, 2019)

Yeah, just like Wrestlemania, I caved on the day of...

And, of course, I'm working tomorrow


----------



## elbows (May 25, 2019)

Its slightly surreal hearing JR saying ITV box office.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2019)

I would not have chosen that battle royal match to introduce the product to your new ITV audience and try to sell the PPV.

I dont mind if the promotion does this sort of thing sometimes, but if this becomes the overriding style of the entire promotion then I wont last long as a viewer. I really dont think thats what they are going to focus on, but I've lost my confidence in predicting what they will do since I really didnt expect the pre-show to be like this.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2019)

I wont give spoilers for the main show but I will make one exception for the pre-show - haha the words 'more like sports' kept running through my mind as I watched a wrestler with no legs and another with a cigarette stapled to his forehead. 

I wonder if JR will improve this commentary team (he hasnt shown up yet and one of the other commentators is nervous or crap).


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2019)

JR is on his way to the announce desk so I will stop my moaning and spoilers now, hoping to enjoy the main show so much more than that pre-show!


----------



## cybershot (May 26, 2019)

The phrase I would use is. ‘Business just picked up’

Hope they keep the trend of PPVs on a Saturday. Much better day for every other fucker on the planet that’s not in America.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 26, 2019)

I really enjoyed that. Passed out just before Omega/Jericho, so will have to try and catch up with that, but every other match on the card was very enjoyable for various reasons (although _that_ thing about the Rhodes derby made me very uncomfortable).

Honestly not meant as a slight against WWE, just my personal taste, but I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than probably any other recent WWE PPV I've watched. Not perfect, unpolished and a bit sketchy at points, but it's their second fucking PPV so I'm not going to take them to task about that.

Looking forward to the next PPVs and, eventually, the weekly show.


----------



## cybershot (May 26, 2019)

The battle royal was ok. did enough to introduce some people that will no doubt star in the main roster and potentially have some gimmicky catch phrases and what not.

Opening tag match of the PPV itself was epic and look forward to more of that, do wonder if they will take a leaf out of NJPW book and introduce 6 man tag titles as something different for American audiences who won’t have seen much of that thing as a niche.

Started to then get a bit flat but everything from and including the Cody vs Dustin match was top draw. Won’t spoil anything for those not watched but there was great action, story telling, blood and shocks. Obviously won’t be able to do that all the time but looks like another PPV to come before the weekly show starts so that will probably set the tone more and champions crowned.

Hope the working relationships with other organisations outside the US can stick as well.

Was also good to hear JR on the ball. Last few times he’s guest commented he has been off the ball making mistakes and mixing people up but obviously just needs to be prepared for what he’s calling and he and Excalibur worked well. The other guy sounded like a complete nerd but nerds have their place like Mike tenay  did in WCW. A bit of extra time and he’ll be alright.

WWE finally has some decent competition, and while Vince might want to ignore the competition I seriously doubt the rest of his locker room will be able to especially Triple H.

ETA: It’s like we’ve come full circle from the OP. Another wrestling reboot.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2019)

cybershot said:


> The battle royal was ok. did enough to introduce some people that will no doubt star in the main roster and potentially have some gimmicky catch phrases and what not.



Could have done without the TNA-riffic convoluted explanation of the rules for that match!



> ETA: It’s like we’ve come full circle from the OP. Another wrestling reboot.



Looking back at the first few pages of the thread I was surprised it took me nearly 2 months to give up on TNA's chances when they tried the Hogan Bischoff thing. Maybe I hadnt learnt the depths of Dixies stupidity back then. Even if AEW fail in the end, they should still be able to carry peoples hopes for longer than TNA ever managed!

I have one hour of the show left to watch, will catch one of the replays later.


----------



## elbows (May 26, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Was also good to hear JR on the ball. Last few times he’s guest commented he has been off the ball making mistakes and mixing people up but obviously just needs to be prepared for what he’s calling and he and Excalibur worked well. The other guy sounded like a complete nerd but nerds have their place like Mike tenay  did in WCW. A bit of extra time and he’ll be alright.



Yeah I was worried about how JR would do but it went ok for him. I dont share your opinion of the nerd, I thought that he wasnt just a nerd (I dont mind nerds), he was shit in numerous respects. Deserves another chance but if he performs like that again they should look for someone else.


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2019)

Watched the rest of the show, very enjoyable.

Both the PPVs these guys have done (I know the first one wasnt AEW but you know what I mean) have been helped by the emotional stuff that Cody managed to bring to the table.

There were some production (timing - missing things, too many crowd reaction shots at times) and commentary issues but nothing horrendous that makes me fear for the future.

Perhaps the show had a few more TNA (mostly during pre-show) and WWE moments than I would have liked, but there is plenty of time to sort that out and not make it a feature of their weekly tv etc. It was a little weird to me to be having the likes of Cody pushing the 'death to the attitude era' stuff on the same show that had unprotected shots to the head with garbage can lids, staple guns etc. There are inevitably some things that WWE does that AEW are going to do too, but lets not emulate ECW, and for that matter lets not bother with tired nostalgia from Tommy Dreamer.


----------



## elbows (May 27, 2019)

MJFs heel mic work was promising too. Seabiscuit.

I'm also glad that we are very far past the point where companies can pin future hopes on old stars from the 1990's/early 2000's, since so few of them are still active in the ring now. A mistake TNA made repeatedly, and that judging by the likes of Dreamer and Billy Gunn, one AEW would not have been immune from given half the chance.

Much as I am amused by some of their digs at WWE, they really should drop that stuff by the time they launch their weekly show. Or at least save it for special occasions.


----------



## cybershot (May 28, 2019)

Looks like there are some monthly events to keep our appetites wet before the weekly show starts.

All Elite Wrestling - Wikipedia

No idea if these are even going to be televised.

I see Moxley will also be doing some NJPW dates until AEW gets fully going. Wonder how long AEW will remain friendly with other companies once they go weekly. One would assume the working relationships will remain limited to those who have no national TV distribution in the States. It would be a shame if AEW causes the demise of ROH for example, who without, All in would probably would never have happened. You'd think AEW would try to offer most of their roster a job should that happen, but also I doubt they want to have the same problem as WWE by having too many people to keep happy to try and find TV time for.


----------



## elbows (May 28, 2019)

Yeah I havent looked into the smaller events yet, except that I thought I heard them mentioning one in late June on the PPV. 

Yeah their relationship with other companies is already complex and will probably evolve in several ways I wont try to predict exactly. Neither ROH or NJPW were happy to lose key talent. Moxley has a contract that allows him to work for others with some exceptions I think. NJPW could work more formally with AEW in future if NJPW dumps their ROH relationship.

I dont want to see wrestlers out of work but due to the absolute scum right wing network that own ROH, I dont care what happens to that company. I dont think AEW would try to offer most of the ROH roster a job, just the people they actually really want, and those people are in a group that should benefit from this new competitive landscape anyway due to better offers from WWE competing with AEW for talent etc.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 28, 2019)

Just finished watching Double or Nothing, better than any WWE ppv in living memory for me.

What I liked was long matches, but fast action with a huge variety of moves. No ridiculous DQ's, just finished matches.

Makes WWE look like a ridiculous soap opera with about 5 moves.

(felt a bit sick with the pouring blood though)


----------



## Ax^ (May 28, 2019)

must admit have watched some of the matchs

did like it when cody and Dustin missed a spot and the audience laughed at it

but they went back to the well and pulled it off

feels more like old school 90's wrestling which is not a bad thing as it why most people still watch the product it is many guises


----------



## cybershot (Jun 2, 2019)

NXT takeover XXV well worth a watch. Every match is good without bullshit endings.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 11, 2019)

Fyter fest will stream for free. No idea if it’s included in ITV’s deal, one would assume not. 

AEW's Second Show, Fyter Fest, to Stream for Free


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2019)

Apparently the demand for tickets for the next big AEW show was insane, beyond any wrestling norm, etc. They could have filled a stadium and still had pent up demand.

And apparently the number of wrestlers who would love to escape WWE is quite incredible too.

I dread to think how WWE will try to respond to this, to say they are on the back foot would be an underestimate. Especially after their Saudi show was a disaster on multiple levels, and they can do nothing but watch as the likes of Moxley create more buzz and attention than they could ever manage on the WWEs platforms.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 17, 2019)

elbows said:


> I dread to think how WWE will try to respond to this.


Well, apparently one immediate response is changing standard NXT contracts from 3 years to 5, tying wrestlers to the company for longer.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 17, 2019)

How have I only just discovered this? Wish there was an unedited version knocking about.



> On "A Flair for the Gold", an interview segment hosted by Ric Flair, in front of a live audience at Clash of the Champions XXIV, Sting and Smith were confronted by Sid and Harlem Heat, demanding to know the identity of their new partner. Sting exclaimed, "All I have to say is, our partner is going to shock the world, because he is none other than the Shockmaster!" The camera then zoomed in on a section of the set where two torches set off a small pyrotechnics explosion in front of a sheetrock wall. With a new costume consisting of a _Star Wars_ Stormtrooper helmet painted purple and covered in silver glitter, a pair of jeans and a large, black, puffy vest, Ottman attempted to make a dramatic entrance by crashing through the wall.
> 
> While making his entrance, Ottman tripped over a piece of lumber that was framing the set, causing him to fall forward through the wall with his helmet falling off and sliding across the floor. His face accidentally exposed, he scrambled to put the helmet back on as Vicious, restraining laughter, exclaimed "Oh, God!" Ottman donned the helmet and got back on his feet, shifting his weight and dusting his hands off in an attempt to shrug off the gaffe while Harlem Heat's Kole asked, "Who is this motherfucker?" and Smith exclaimed "He fell flat on his arse! He fell flat on his fucking arse!". Both of these comments were audible to the live audience and television viewers, but were bleeped in future showings of the footage by WWE. Ottman then began gesturing toward his would-be opponents several seconds before a menacing gravelly off-screen voice (provided by Ole Anderson, who could be heard laughing before speaking) started to threaten Sid and Vader. Sid Vicious, remaining in character, reacted in rage to Shockmaster, and the broadcast focused on Vicious for the duration of the voiceover. The announcers said nothing as the segment ended.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 17, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Well, apparently one immediate response is changing standard NXT contracts from 3 years to 5, tying wrestlers to the company for longer.



Vince is gonna Vince!


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2019)

cybershot said:


> How have I only just discovered this? Wish there was an unedited version knocking about.



That version isnt edited, the swearing etc comments arent bleeped, but you have to turn the volume way up to hear them.

I'm glad I was not watching wrestling during this period. Even if the Shockmaster had not fallen down, the segment would still have sucked big time, all that shouting and the painted stormtrooper mask. Low rent wrestlecrap at its finest!


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2019)

Plus the guy under the mask is fucking Tugboat from WWF so I dont think the character would have set the world on fire under any circumstances.


----------



## elbows (Jun 23, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Fyter fest will stream for free. No idea if it’s included in ITV’s deal, one would assume not.
> 
> AEW's Second Show, Fyter Fest, to Stream for Free



Looks like in the UK we have to pay to watch the 'minor' shows via fite tv.

“FYTER FEST” and “FIGHT FOR THE FALLEN” Available in UK & Ireland through FITE TV in collaboration with ITV Box Office


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 23, 2019)

Ah, well that's bollocks


----------



## cybershot (Jun 24, 2019)

If you've got access to a VPN service, base yourself in the US, and should then hopefully work on B/R. No doubt you'll have to create an account or some bollox, so might be useful getting that out the way first.

Or just torrent it the next morning.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 24, 2019)

Stomping Grounds seems an interesting event, not seen it yet, but will watch a handful of it tonight out of curiosity. Most of the reviews for the actual matches are saying they were high quality matches, but the fan fallout still seems to be rather negative from what I'm seeing, probably not helped by what looks like a really poor attendance. Big sections of the arena clothed out. There's no doubt the talent on the roster when they can be allowed to have great matches.

Even if WWE can get themselves out of their current creative rut, you do wonder if until AEW actually gets going will fans will turn the corner and be less negative. People seem so invested in wanting AEW that no matter what WWE do at the moment will change perceptions. Perhaps AEW starting can be the best thing that can happen at the moment and after the initial honeymoon period will we see people be less fickel. At least when it comes to actual events where the prime focus is on having good wrestling matches and not trying to progress storylines with awful direction.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 24, 2019)

Oh, did anyone watch NJPW Dominion or Best of the Super J's?

I didn't watch all of it, but Will Ospreay has to be up there as one of the best on the planet at the moment. Juice took a bad bump on the outside for Moxley. Ibushi's bump on his neck on the apron was insanely dangerous, not sure if it was meant to happen like that but they didn't mind showing it you again in slow motion. Okada/Jericho pulled off a great match working to each of their opponents limitations. Jericho is starting imo to look a touch off the pace now despite what people say abut him still being in his prime, I'd say he was in better shape in his last WWE run, but perhaps once back on weekly he'll be back on it properly, but the fact they guy can work as well as he does against one of the best in the world, compared to others his age or older who can't even work at a snails pace against someone their own age, says it all.

WOuld prefer AEW put the belt on Hangman as it's much ore interesting having a hell Jericho pursuing revenge than it is having a babyface trying to challenge Jericho. I guess the main problem AEW will have is that they don't appear to always be putting titles on their best buddies all the time. Which I don't think they will.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Stomping Grounds seems an interesting event, not seen it yet, but will watch a handful of it tonight out of curiosity. Most of the reviews for the actual matches are saying they were high quality matches, but the fan fallout still seems to be rather negative from what I'm seeing, probably not helped by what looks like a really poor attendance. Big sections of the arena clothed out. There's no doubt the talent on the roster when they can be allowed to have great matches.
> 
> Even if WWE can get themselves out of their current creative rut, you do wonder if until AEW actually gets going will fans will turn the corner and be less negative. People seem so invested in wanting AEW that no matter what WWE do at the moment will change perceptions. Perhaps AEW starting can be the best thing that can happen at the moment and after the initial honeymoon period will we see people be less fickel. At least when it comes to actual events where the prime focus is on having good wrestling matches and not trying to progress storylines with awful direction.



I'm not sure where to start with this. Apart from some very brief periods, WWF/E never placed match quality at the heart of their promotion, it was always about the other stuff. Of course there were exceptions and the pride of the wrestlers themselves, coupled with some exceptional talents, gave us great matches. But the WWE machine was geared around their ability to make new stars, and they messed that up time and time again over the last decade+. They devalued the titles significantly. They taught the remaining fans not to give a shit about various aspects of the match that should actually matter a lot. The problems were decades in the making and although one really hot star could make a big difference quickly, I dont think there can be a quick turnaround in fortunes. 

A hot crowd is important for wrestling shows, and no promoter can ensure they never have a show ruined by poor crowd reaction. I dont intend to watch Stomping Grounds, but this sort of thing can happen at any time. As a one off its not necessarily a sign of anything else, some cities in the USA have always had much worse crowds than others.

I dont think its caused by fans being fickle, more like WWE creative & booking being fickle. How long has it been since they just dropped the Stephanie-HHH-Kurt Angle love triangle angle? 19 years-ish? Thats when I should really have stopped watching, but like many others I gave WWE many,many more years of chances. Now that they have finally lost me, it will be hard to get me back, and there are very many fans going back to the death of WCW who are unlikely to return. If WWE sorts their shit out then they will have to make new fans, just like they will have to make new stars.

Fickle fans could be an issue for AEW. But they have the benefit of passionate fans who really want them to succeed, so they will get the chance to make some mistakes without doom. But they have a fairly small roster and some of the key wrestling talent are also key behind the scenes, and I do worry about how they will cope when they have to produce a show every single week.

There is another big problem of WWE's own making, which is a sign of the current media landscape and where WWE can get their money from. The length of the shows - 3 hour RAWs drove away god knows how many people, and the easy answers to that problem are not really options right now due to the amount of revenue involved and desires of their TV partners.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Oh, did anyone watch NJPW Dominion or Best of the Super J's?
> 
> I didn't watch all of it, but Will Ospreay has to be up there as one of the best on the planet at the moment. Juice took a bad bump on the outside for Moxley. Ibushi's bump on his neck on the apron was insanely dangerous, not sure if it was meant to happen like that but they didn't mind showing it you again in slow motion. Okada/Jericho pulled off a great match working to each of their opponents limitations. Jericho is starting imo to look a touch off the pace now despite what people say abut him still being in his prime, I'd say he was in better shape in his last WWE run, but perhaps once back on weekly he'll be back on it properly, but the fact they guy can work as well as he does against one of the best in the world, compared to others his age or older who can't even work at a snails pace against someone their own age, says it all.
> 
> WOuld prefer AEW put the belt on Hangman as it's much ore interesting having a hell Jericho pursuing revenge than it is having a babyface trying to challenge Jericho. I guess the main problem AEW will have is that they don't appear to always be putting titles on their best buddies all the time. Which I don't think they will.



A big part fo the reason why I had to stop watching NJPW was that watching too many career and life shortening moves by various wrestlers on their roster just got to me too much in the end. That and the quantity of shows being too much for me, I could never keep up.

Jericho hasnt been in his physical prime for many years. A great wrestler like him knows how to compensate for that by putting their intensity into the match in a different way, and by doing excellent promos and pre-match buildup. Since I didnt see the match in question I cant really comment on any specifics, but I did hear that fan reaction may have played a part too, they are used to certain kinds of matches from Okada and even though the negative reaction was anticipated and made into an intended aspect of the booking, it might still have come across as a bit unsettling to viewers.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 24, 2019)

elbows said:


> WWF/E never placed match quality at the heart of their promotion



I don't know about this, there's been plenty of great matches over the years, especially at PPVs. Maybe the fact the death of WCW caused me to pretty much stop watching immediately. E.g. I've never seen a single CM Punk match. I came back about 2015, so it was a massive gap, and maybe I just missed all the proper shit, certainly the calibre of the talent to put together a great match is the best it's ever been, the problem is they just aren't allowed to do it asmuch as they should. Hence NXT Takeover's tend to blow everything the main roster does out the window. imo of course.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I don't know about this, there's been plenty of great matches over the years, especially at PPVs.



WWF/E has had some exceptionally great matches and shows. All the same, the wrestling quality was not at the heart of their promotion, and some of their most successful periods were times where the wrestling was especially shit.

Look at the early Wrestlemanias. A load of shit for the most part. And one of the reasons why the likes of Bret Hart, Macho Man, Shawn Michaels, Ricky Steamboat, Mr Perfect, Rick Rude get such high praise - they were the exceptions.

The Wembley SummerSlam which I attended was not a good card. The show was a huge spectacular, but most of the matches were nothing at all, by some measures the show was absolute dogshit. It got worse after that, and for a time they probably did have to rely on match quality because Vinces instinctive template involving 'steroid freaks' was off the table due to the steroid trial involving VInce. And he'd gotten rid of the biggest stars he made because he was an ageist fool who thought they were all past it by the time they hit 40.

The first big stages of the attitude era were not about match quality much either, it was about how brightly those stars shined (having the Rock and Stone Cold at the same time was a wrestling miracle of timing), and the risqué shit they put on the show. Again there were exceptions, some great matches, boosted a lot by Jim Ross at his peak.

Arguably their best era for wrestling followed. Great tag teams doing amazing ladder etc matches. And Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit really raised the bar. A long decline since then, despite them arguably having the necessary talent on the roster to replicate that era in the ring in many ways.


----------



## elbows (Jun 27, 2019)

Well here is one of WWEs big panic moves on full display to the world. Heyman as executive director of Raw, and Bischoff as the same for Smackdown. Real, creative, power roles, not simply playing the GM parts for tv (so not like Bischoffs first WWE run).

I wonder what the results will be. Not much dispute that Heyman is a wrestling genius, but they still have to report to Vince and on previous occasions where Heyman had an important creative role, there were often clashes that did not end well. Plus, Heyman has already been doing some things backstage for a good while, so his influence isnt brand new. As for Bischoff, perhaps he was good at some of the things he did in the early years of his WCW tenure. I have many reasons to question his judgement ever since, very much including his TNA tenure, but as it sounds like Fox executives are taking an interest in the format and content of Smackdown once it moves to their network, perhaps he is the right man for that job.


----------



## bromley (Jun 28, 2019)

I was a big fan (look up results before watching the shows) until WCW got purchased, knew during the stalker angle that they had completely fucked it. 

Personally Bischoff and Heyman sounds like great news to me!


----------



## bromley (Jun 28, 2019)

elbows said:


> Well here is one of WWEs big panic moves on full display to the world. Heyman as executive director of Raw, and Bischoff as the same for Smackdown. Real, creative, power roles, not simply playing the GM parts for tv (so not like Bischoffs first WWE run).
> 
> I wonder what the results will be. Not much dispute that Heyman is a wrestling genius, but they still have to report to Vince and on previous occasions where Heyman had an important creative role, there were often clashes that did not end well. Plus, Heyman has already been doing some things backstage for a good while, so his influence isnt brand new. As for Bischoff, perhaps he was good at some of the things he did in the early years of his WCW tenure. I have many reasons to question his judgement ever since, very much including his TNA tenure, but as it sounds like Fox executives are taking an interest in the format and content of Smackdown once it moves to their network, perhaps he is the right man for that job.


I honestly believe was Bischoff says about the corporate pressures of WCW when Ted Turner's influence got diminished. Not many storylines have been as good as Hogan V Sting. I did think he was out of the game so to speak though and just enjoyed hunting and fishing in the middle of no where.


----------



## elbows (Jun 28, 2019)

Ah yes the invasion period was a clear sign that Vince didnt know what he was doing. Was it DDP stalking the Undertakers wife? I cant blame Vince for the Stone Cold heel turn though, that was Steve's own idea.

Heyman can be great when given the right support and control. There was a period (probably last decade, I forget) when he was responsible for Smackdown that was great. But he could not save the really shitty ECW relaunch at all, I still remember the ECW PPV they did being the worst PPV card I ever saw. His creative influence has been building behind the scenes for some time, he guided Lesnar stuff, Rousey stuff and some of the Becky-Charlotte stuff.

Bischoff was hardly the only person responsible for WCWs woes, a lot of that was corporate shit and wrestlers having creative control in their contracts and being too close to Hogan and Russo being absolute dogshit. There was a period in 97-98 where WCW was very hot and people in the TV industry still give him credit for that. But he has had failures since, he is in total denial about his WCW failings in most of the interviews/podcasts he has done, and although he was a step up from Dixie Carter in TNA (who isnt?), his run there did not indicate any residual wrestling genius.

Plus even genius bookers of wrestling can struggle when they have some years out and dont keep up with the evolution of wrestling. Bill Watts was a wrestling genius, but he was utterly out of touch after a 5-ish year break, when WCW brought him in. The times had changed and things had moved on, and wrestling and what the audience want has certainly changed since Bischoffs time.

I did like Bischoff as an on-air performer for WWE, he was real good at that role, but thats not the plan at all this time. But who knows, plans change, especially with the current Vince and his lack of memory.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 28, 2019)

Bischoff always interests me in interviews, he kind of reminds me of David Cameron in that regard, in that in person he comes across really well, and tells a good story, but at the back of your mind your just wondering how much of what he is saying is bullshit, and that because he believes his own bullshit that much, he honestly think's it's the truth. 

I only got so far with the 83 weeks podcast because it got a little tiring week after week hearing Bischoff call bullshit on literally everything, but he at least in some cases did have the honesty to say when he couldn't remember things, which is fair enough, this shit was 20 odd years ago.

Personally I think it's a good thing, but, it really wouldn't surprise me if both leave their roles before October citing 'creative differences'


----------



## elbows (Jun 28, 2019)

Apparently Heyman and Vince get on better than they used to, now that they are older. So maybe that will last longer than it is tempting to anticipate.

The only way I can imagine Bischoff being any good in his role is if he is sensible enough to listen to other people around him behind the scenes, all the other creative people and the agents who lay out the matches etc. But its still hard to imagine him as anything other than stuck in the past, phoning Hogan as soon as there is a bump in the road. Hoping to be very wrong about this, and we still dont know exactly what Fox want from Smackdown.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 30, 2019)

AEW’s second big show was last night. I won’t post results spoilers but will say I’d recommend you watch the pre show as well as the main show for the opening triple threat tag match.

Nyla Rose looks a star in the making if she is booked properly, and hopefully the booking of that match is a good indication of that.

I was never a huge fan of dean ambrose and still aren’t really. I don’t think he is a great wrestler but there’s no doubt he’s creating the biggest buzz in pro wrestling at the moment. The potential is clearly there with the moxley persona to be something as interesting as stone cold/foley was in regards to violence and dis regard of the rules.  WWE must be kicking themselves, but it’s their own problem with sticking to PG.

However the main talking point from the event is going to be that chair shot. The commentary team and the delay into the next match gave it a sense of realism, although I can only assume it was booked to go down like that. Haven’t read any dirt sheets yet, so this is just my thoughts but there is no need in 2019 with all the evidence we have that anyone should take a chair shot to the head like that. Someone mentioned above they stopped watching NJPW because of the incessant bumps and the fact I’m writing such a long paragraph on it, it perhaps was done purely to get people talking about AEW again and perhaps to continue talking about AEW after Tuesday, especially when WWE have have made some big moves back stage this week and there will no doubt be big interest in RAW and Smackdown this week.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 30, 2019)

cybershot said:


> AEW’s second big show was last night. I won’t post results spoilers but will say I’d recommend you watch the pre show as well as the main show for the opening triple threat tag match.


I overslept and missed 75% of the pre-show   Will catch up on YouTube.



cybershot said:


> I was never a huge fan of dean ambrose and still aren’t really. I don’t think he is a great wrestler but there’s no doubt he’s creating the biggest buzz in pro wrestling at the moment. The potential is clearly there with the moxley persona to be something as interesting as stone cold/foley was in regards to violence and dis regard of the rules.  WWE must be kicking themselves, but it’s their own problem with sticking to PG.


Aye, I'm still not convinced, but he at least seems a _little_ more interesting than just "I get gory". Carrying the young lion to the back in NJPW, the smirk last night, there are little touches that keep me interested.



cybershot said:


> However the main talking point from the event is going to be that chair shot. The commentary team and the delay into the next match gave it a sense of realism, although I can only assume it was booked to go down like that. Haven’t read any dirt sheets yet, so this is just my thoughts but there is no need in 2019 with all the evidence we have that anyone should take a chair shot to the head like that. Someone mentioned above they stopped watching NJPW because of the incessant bumps and the fact I’m writing such a long paragraph on it, it perhaps was done purely to get people talking about AEW again and perhaps to continue talking about AEW after Tuesday, especially when WWE have have made some big moves back stage this week and there will no doubt be big interest in RAW and Smackdown this week.





Spoiler



Same. I tend to follow a very specific part of the wrestling community, and they're all very "glad you're ok, but that doesn't absolve being that fucking stupid". A lot of suggestion it was a blade job, and it did look like the wound was in a different area to where he got hit. Still, it's just not worth it.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 30, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Same. I tend to follow a very specific part of the wrestling community, and they're all very "glad you're ok, but that doesn't absolve being that fucking stupid". A lot of suggestion it was a blade job, and it did look like the wound was in a different area to where he got hit. Still, it's just not worth it.





Spoiler



I’m reading the chair was meant to be gimmicked but clearly it went wrong which proves the point this sort of stuff just ain’t worth it. 12 staples to the head to fix the wound but no concussion thankfully, but who knows what sort of thing that could do long term


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 30, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I’m reading the chair was meant to be gimmicked but clearly it went wrong which proves the point this sort of stuff just ain’t worth it. 12 staples to the head to fix the wound but no concussion thankfully, but who knows what sort of thing that could do long term





Spoiler



By "clearly went wrong" do you mean because he was cut open? I'm still not sure that was the chair that did that.

To be honest, I'm still totally unclear as to why Spears did it! I presume we'll get an explanation on social media.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 30, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I'm just going by what I’ve read here. 

Cody Rhodes Update Following Unprotected Chair Shot At AEW Fyter Fest, Tony Khan Comments - Wrestling Inc.


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## Lord Camomile (Jun 30, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, just caught up on that myself.

Will certainly be curious to see how it plays out over the next few days/weeks and if it impacts things going forward.


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## elbows (Jun 30, 2019)

Oh I was looking forward to that show but completely forgot that it was on last night. Will probably watch it later.

As for the chair shot, since I talk about this subject in general plenty already, not much to add now, plus I havent seen it yet. But wrestlers can be the own worst enemies and organisations have to stop them going too far. Even in WWE which is not afraid to ban particular moves etc, we sometimes get blood or other things that are clearly planned, but they decide to bullshit about that afterwards and deny all knowledge, claim something didnt go according to plan. Not sure about AEW, I have no history to judge them on, and having so many active wrestlers in management roles wont necessarily help matters.


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## elbows (Jun 30, 2019)

My dad told me that WWE are looking around for a UK terrestrial tv deal of some kind again. This is to be expected given the circumstances, will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. Not that I will watch it unless the shows improve.


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## cybershot (Jun 30, 2019)

elbows said:


> My dad told me that WWE are looking around for a UK terrestrial tv deal of some kind again. This is to be expected given the circumstances, will be interesting to see if anything comes of it. Not that I will watch it unless the shows improve.



Yes just a highlights show. So will be something like those old sky one catch up shows they used to show on Saturday morning. Maybe superstars will make a come back.


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## Lord Camomile (Jun 30, 2019)

Is that different from BT picking up Raw and Smackdown?


> BT Sport will air both _Raw_ and _SmackDown_ exclusively live every week... BT Sport will also carry same day primetime re-airs of Raw on Tuesdays and SmackDown on Saturdays, a two-hour version of Raw, one-hour version of Raw and one-hour version of SmackDown across its portfolio of channels.


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## elbows (Jun 30, 2019)

Yes, I think they know that BT isnt that strong, and they want some kind of terrestrial channel presence too, especially now that AEW has ITV.

We've sort of been here before, with all the WWEs UK stuff in response to ITV running the World Of Sport show. WWE response to that was a bit half-arsed in the end because WoS didnt exactly set the world on fire. But anything on ITV makes WWE feel insecure, let alone a hot new product.

I actually missed the news about the main WWE shows moving to BT. But it wasnt shocking because I think we heard rumours about this quite some time ago?

I think part of the reason I keep describing WWE as being in panic mode is that even if they didnt really think the AEW product itself was a threat, AEW has done all sorts of numbers that made the wider television industry take note. And the WWEs own metrics have been unimpressive for ages, and still declining.

I suppose another reason for the Heyman and Bischoff stuff is that a chunk of Vinces time and attention will have to switch to his crappy american football league later this year. What awful timing!


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## bromley (Jul 2, 2019)

Raw actually seems interesting this week!


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## elbows (Jul 9, 2019)

bromley said:


> Raw actually seems interesting this week!



I watched about half an hour of it to get a feel for the start of the Heyman era. It wasnt boring but it left me with new concerns about where they are going. And now I am hearing that this weeks RAW was WCW-circa 2000-tastic, which is a very ominous sign. I heavent read/listened to a proper review of it yet, will do so and may have further thoughts later.


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## bromley (Jul 9, 2019)

elbows said:


> I watched about half an hour of it to get a feel for the start of the Heyman era. It wasnt boring but it left me with new concerns about where they are going. And now I am hearing that this weeks RAW was WCW-circa 2000-tastic, which is a very ominous sign. I heavent read/listened to a proper review of it yet, will do so and may have further thoughts later.


Have to confess that my post was only based on watching the first 10 minutes or so before work. It quickly returned to form!


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## cybershot (Jul 9, 2019)

This weeks RAW sounds god awful. Haven’t even bothered downloading it to flick through this evening.


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## elbows (Jul 9, 2019)

Yeah, I thought it might take 3-6 weeks to go shitty again but it sounds like another one of those 'reboots' that was only really different for one week. I'm not going to check it out, and make no predictions as to when I will next hear of something that actually makes me give it a try - could be never again at this rate.

I never got round to that last AEW show, may as well just skip it now, is there another one coming up real soon? Although I've mostly been positive and excited about AEW so far, I'm not banking on that promotion having long-term appeal to me either.

Last time I stopped following wrestling at all for about 6 or 7 years, it was easy because I'd reached a certain age and WWF had fallen very far from a peak and I didnt have easy access to anything else. And I was slow to notice when it all got good again, and then it took a while for me to have access to the right channels or fast enough internet. Well maybe this is the right time for me to have another complete break, but this time around it will kind of pain me to do so because there are probably more brilliant in-ring performers around now across a multitude of promotions than there has ever been before. But its so painful to see how many of them are utilised terribly.

Maybe my appetite for 'so bad its good' has changed gradually over the last decade. After all, I managed to watch Impact for years and years!

Speaking of Impact, I really do need to see some of the Tessa Blanchard matches people rave about, she sounds phenomenal. 3rd generation magic. Her dad is a perfect character in some of the old original four horsemen skits. I wish I'd had access to that era of american pro wrestling at the time, by the time I saw Tully he was in the Brain Busters in WWF, and was very soon gone (failed cocaine test I think). I'm glad I didnt have to deal with him in real life though, by most accounts he had an attitude that made him very hard to get along with.

So yeah, Tessa Blanchard. If I've been reading properly then it sounds like they've been doing inter-gender stuff with her in Impact, which I'm not a fan of, so maybe I need to check her work in a different promotion. I think maybe I saw her somewhere once but it wasnt the sort of match to get insane reviews and she has probably improved a load more since then.


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## cybershot (Jul 9, 2019)

Yeah next AEW is this Saturday night/Sunday morning. Then it’s a 7 week build up to all out.


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## mwgdrwg (Jul 10, 2019)

elbows said:


> Yeah, I thought it might take 3-6 weeks to go shitty again but it sounds like another one of those 'reboots' that was only really different for one week. I'm not going to check it out, and make no predictions as to when I will next hear of something that actually makes me give it a try - could be never again at this rate.
> 
> I never got round to that last AEW show, may as well just skip it now, is there another one coming up real soon? Although I've mostly been positive and excited about AEW so far, I'm not banking on that promotion having long-term appeal to me either.
> 
> ...



Seems an odd time to stop following (non WWE) wrestling just as it's getting interesting again.


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## elbows (Jul 10, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> Seems an odd time to stop following (non WWE) wrestling just as it's getting interesting again.



I was just considering giving it a rest since I am a bit burnt out on it all. I havent decided to do that yet, but at the very least it means my bar for what counts as interesting is set rather high. If AEW is good I will stick with it. But if backstage WWE turmoil is more interesting than anything on any of the shows by any promotion, I might just stick to the gossip.


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## elbows (Jul 14, 2019)

I had time to watch some of the last AEW show and enjoyed it - I think I like it more when I dont watch the pre-shows. Apparently there are differences of opinion within the company about the pre-shows so far, and maybe they will change anyway once AEW has weekly television to do storyline stuff instead. Anyway I decided to watch tonights AEW show as a result. The bloody fite tv stream has died at the time of me writing this message! Its still pre-show time right now so I am able to continue watching via youtube, but fite tv better fix this before the main show starts proper or this is going to be a terrible intro to their service for me!

I've only seen 10 mins or so of the pre-show so far so I cant really fairly compare it to the pre-show I didnt like, but it seems better so far.


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 14, 2019)

elbows said:


> The bloody fite tv stream has died at the time of me writing this message! Its still pre-show time right now so I am able to continue watching via youtube, but fite tv better fix this before the main show starts proper or this is going to be a terrible intro to their service for me!


Seems to be back up, for now...


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## elbows (Jul 14, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Seems to be back up, for now...



My audio sync is fucked now, although at least the random messed up subtitles seem to have gone away right now!


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## elbows (Jul 14, 2019)

Ignore that audio sync comment, human error on my part, was still listening to the youtube stream while watching the fite tv stream muted


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## Lord Camomile (Jul 14, 2019)

elbows said:


> Ignore that audio sync comment, human error on my part, was still listening to the youtube stream while watching the fite tv stream muted


Did exactly the same thing


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## cybershot (Jul 14, 2019)

Just caught up before the F1.

Some decent matches and some mediocre stuff as well.

Surprised at how well jungle boy and luchasaurus were over with the crowd. Good match that was too.

Omega match was also pretty decent once it got going.

Great tag team main event. Well, when it was tagging, which made no sense as the ref just seemed to let the young bucks double team for the majority of it, which just pissed me off, dunno if they will play on that later down the line but what’s the point of tag matches when the tag rules just seems to be as and when it’s convenient for how to play out the match. 

NXT has done some great tag team sequences recently but a lot of it has been at the expense of actual tag wrestling and just letting everyone go at it doing high spots. Would rather see the ‘rules’ changed or a return back to proper tag wrestling. 

Dustin Rhodes is in great shape and for 50 years old can seriously still throw himself around well as proved by both his appearances now. Putting a lot of the others around his age to shame.

Is it me or is Jericho getting more timber every time I see him? Not been doing his DDP yoga?


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## elbows (Jul 19, 2019)

I havent watched the main event yet, so I will comment on that another time. Saw the rest, I was pretty happy with it. That Alex bloke on commentary seemed less nervous this time, though I would still prefer someone else or a 2 man team. Still great commentary compared to WWE - even if WWE had great booking and matches the commentary would still spoil it for me!

Not sure about Jericho, Im not used to seeing him with a tight, dark top on, and really once a wrestler is well past 40 I'm not going to give them a hard time if their shape sags and bulges.

I've always been a fan of Dustins work, well almost always. I'm glad he got to do something meaningful at this stage of his career.

When I was going on about Tully Blanchard just the other day, little did I know he would sign with AEW, but thats whats happened. No idea what he is like as a promo these days, cant imagine them living up to his promos at his peak but you never know I suppose.

There is just a tad too much WCW/Jim Crocket Promotions nostalgia as part of the AEW mix for me so far (including Tony Schiavone in some promo videos). Dont get me wrong, a little bit is fine, I suppose I am slightly nervous because I've seen promotions that are short on ideas rely on the past too much.

I hope MJF's elbow injury isnt serious (apparently it isnt), he is such a good heel promo and he has the perfect dickhead facial expressions to go with his character. Facially reminds me a tiny bit of a youthful Gazza at times.

I was not suprised to learn that Britt Baker got a concussion in her match, it was clear that things had gone awry at certain moments. I wish there was a proper concussion protocol in wrestling, its no good taking proper care of them later if you still let them finish the match and risk an additional concussion so soon after the first one. It sounds like she was pretty messed up afterwards so it could be a bad one, hope she is recovering better than her initial condition suggests she might.


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## elbows (Jul 19, 2019)

I'm quite bored of Seth Rollins as 'public defender of WWE in interviews, social media etc' already. Including tired cliches about everyone hating the giants. That sentiment does not explain falling ratings, including huge and alarming falls in the young audience, or the shit product. 

There seems to be plenty of talk of WWE putting NXT on a Fox station in the US such as FS1 on Wednesday nights, to counter AEWs forthcoming Wednesday weekly television show.

When I go on about drawbacks to the modern style of wrestling, including excessively stiff moves in NJPW, and my fears for the future of many of these wrestlers, Will Ospreay is certainly high up the list of concerns. He has existing neck damage, suffered a stinger the other day, but was still back for a G1 match some days later. I think it might be a miracle if he makes it through his career without some tragedy or premature end to his career at least.


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## cybershot (Jul 19, 2019)

It's almost as if WWE execs are stuck in the 90s. Hiring Bischoff and Heyman, having the 3 main players of that 90s war in their camp, but this isn't the 90s. I don't see how WWE putting NXT on FS1 will make any kind of difference, other than hurting their own product, the WWE Network. Especially in areas outside the US, for example where UK viewers won't have access to Fox's catch up services, will we have to wait 4 weeks for NXT content to then apear on the network, or are they also planning on BT Sport to show NXT as well going forward.

In all fairness the UK brand of NXT could probably also do with the exposure outside of the WWE Network, but then, what, exactly keeps anyone subbed to WWE Network if all the main plus points of it, which, let's be honest, is just NXT, become available elsewhere.

This isn't the 90s. People don't need to switch channels during live tv. We're not limited to recording the channel the sky/cable box is on, because we're not using VHS recorders anymore.

AEW seem to understand this, and understand that they are not in a ratings war and are about just getting the product out there. WWE in the meantime seem to think the fight is all about ratings.

Maybe USA and FOX execs also see it like this due to the massive prices they have paid for WWE content on their stations for the next however many years come October, but more fools them.

People will steam, record, catch up and be able too watch what they want, flick through and just watch the interesting bits. It's not a Monday night war, and never will be.

If anything, this pettiness will hurt them further, less people will sub to WWE Network and more people will torrent/pirate the PPVs, which to be fair, I've been doing since January! I've usually dipped back into WWE Network a few times a year by now, but not this year. Might well re-sub for the NXT UK special.

Apparently Baszler and Matt Riddle are over for NXT UK tapings this weekend, so I guess they will be setting up matches for NXT UK Takeover. Be a bit boring if it's Riddle and Ohno going at it again.


----------



## elbows (Jul 19, 2019)

Well its partly down to Vince being stuck in the past, partly because in the TV industry the very old and brief successes of Bischoff still mean something, and partly because there is a weird disconnect between WWEs biggest revenue streams and the actual popularity of their product. But they know that will catch up with them in the end, eg if their ratings really suck next time the TV deals are up for renegotiation.

There are no good numbers available to tell us about WWE Network viewing habits, but I'm under the impression that NXT TakeOver shows dont get the number of viewers that main PPV shows do, so we have to be careful with what things look like inside the hardcore fan bubble and what we care about, and what things look like to the broader mainstream audience.

A lot of weird tv industry things will only change once we move beyond this period where there is still a belief that 'live sports' are the saviour of live tv, and command a ridiculous price tag. 

Also keep in mind that WWEs live attendance numbers are also in notable decline, so thats another thing that gets their alarm bells ringing.

And I dont think a very high percentage of their revenues come from the network, they would rather give away free periods of network access to make the subscriber numbers look better to their shareholders than maximise the network revenue.

Some product ideas are apparently coming directly from the tv networks. I think the 24/7 title was a UniversalNBC idea. I think Fox have told all their affiliates to treat WWE like its a real sport, that will be awkward at times!

AEW know how to work the 'not traditional tv' side of things but I wont make any claims about how they judge ratings etc until they have actually been on tv every week for a while. I think they will care about this more than you might think, but I might be totally wrong.


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## elbows (Jul 19, 2019)

Also in the tv industry Vince is still treated like a genius promoter with the golden touch. But fans know this has not actually been the case for several decades, the Mr McMahon character vs Stone Cold thing was the last time I could personally claim Vince was a genius wrestling promoter, and that was a long time ago now. There is certainly scope for the tv industry and investors to catch up with the far less impressive reality of Vince in the next few years.


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## elbows (Jul 20, 2019)

Oh yeah apparently Bischoff didnt actually have anything to do with the creative side of Smackdown, and may not in future. He does have a big WWE job, but I dont think it matches their original statements about his role at all. Sounds more like TV network liaison + some currently unknown other aspects to his role. Maybe there will even be some creative aspects to his role, but he certainly hasnt been head of creative so far, has not been doing the equivalent of Heyman. This makes a lot of sense, since it was pretty hard to imagine him having that role and being a big success at it.


----------



## elbows (Jul 20, 2019)

Oh its that time of year where I start regretting not watching NJPW at the moment, loads of reports of amazing matches in the G1 tournament so far! At this rate maybe I will sign up with their internet service again.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 23, 2019)

They really made a mess of RAW Reunion. A great chance to have past stars big up and team up with current roster stars to make older fans get a more interest in the current product, in the end, they totally wasted it, and basically had Hogan and Austin at the end begging people to keep watching. Desperate.

Yes predictable and obvious but I think most hardcore fans would have liked seeing Austin setting Shane up for a stunner from KO, but no, not even something that simple could be achieved, or Hogan getting behind a fan favourite to help give them a huge push, but no.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

cybershot said:


> They really made a mess of RAW Reunion. A great chance to have past stars big up and team up with current roster stars to make older fans get a more interest in the current product, in the end, they totally wasted it, and basically had Hogan and Austin at the end begging people to keep watching. Desperate.
> 
> Yes predictable and obvious but I think most hardcore fans would have liked seeing Austin setting Shane up for a stunner from KO, but no, not even something that simple could be achieved, or Hogan getting behind a fan favourite to help give them a huge push, but no.



Ha, at this stage I would be far more surprised if they did something right!

I havent watched the show or read/listened to a review of it yet. Even if they didnt have the old stars do anything directly to put over current ones, they could in theory get somewhere just by having some decent angles for current stars on the show that more people are watching due to the reunion. Did that happen at all?

I was looking at the card for SummerSlam 92 again the other day, it was even more horrible than I had remembered!


----------



## bromley (Jul 23, 2019)

cybershot said:


> They really made a mess of RAW Reunion. A great chance to have past stars big up and team up with current roster stars to make older fans get a more interest in the current product, in the end, they totally wasted it, and basically had Hogan and Austin at the end begging people to keep watching. Desperate.
> 
> Yes predictable and obvious but I think most hardcore fans would have liked seeing Austin setting Shane up for a stunner from KO, but no, not even something that simple could be achieved, or Hogan getting behind a fan favourite to help give them a huge push, but no.


Personally would have wanted to see Hogan take a stunner, racist prick.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

elbows said:


> I'm quite bored of Seth Rollins as 'public defender of WWE in interviews, social media etc' already. Including tired cliches about everyone hating the giants. That sentiment does not explain falling ratings, including huge and alarming falls in the young audience, or the shit product.



lol after I said that he got worse!



> Seth Rollins on SummerSlam conference call:
> 
> Moxley to AEW:
> “I was surprised by it. I knew Ambrose needed time away from WWE.”
> ...



What a fuckwit. People in WWE are getting shiny new deals with pay that in many cases is twice as much as it would have been without competition from AEW. And longer term, if anyone in WWE loses out because of company mistakes, thats WWE and McMahons fault, not Moxley for fucks sake.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2019)

With the sort of shit Rollins comes out with, including absolutely ludicrous claims about which company has the best wrestling matches, they may as well rebrand to Insecure and Inept Wrestling Federation now.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 24, 2019)

I'd've wagered good money that Corbin would be taking a stunner on that show, but instead he got the night off

I actually considered Lynch getting one too and then about half a second later I thought oh god no!


----------



## cybershot (Jul 24, 2019)

I honestly think they should put a title on Corbin, the guy's got serious heat.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 25, 2019)

I like Corbin. I appreciate he isn't the most proficient wrestler of all time, but the flack he gets for being the absolute worst is complete horse shit:

His signiture moves are among the best in the company (the Deep Six is gorgeous, I love his choke slam back-breaker, his punches are some of the most convincing in the promotion and the End of Days is apparently one of only two finishers used by main roster male wrestlers never to have been kicked out of - can anyone guess the other?). He's a former football player and boxer, he's a legit hard bastard without evidence of him being a cunt, he's got the look, VinnieMac apparently fancies him (so do I, FYI). Has he ever injured anyone?

Yes, his half-nelson chin-locks are tedious, but so is most of the repetative crap we see every Raw and Smackdown. The GM/TGI Fridays manager outfit needs to go, and I, for one, don't think there was anything wrong with his old gear.

His role as GM of Raw really benefited his promo skills. You may not like what he's told to say, but he's now able to deliver it without fault whilst getting booed out of the building. 

Sadly, having the McMahons come out and blame him as if he were shoot in charge of the whole company was pathetic, and everyone bought into it, as if he actually booked himself to be involved in every single storyline.

Future Universal Champion (shortly after he's turned face prolly) for sure


----------



## cybershot (Jul 25, 2019)

I hope he stays heel and wins it. I’d like to see him beat kofi for ultimate shit housery on the fans.

As you say the guy is a good wrestler, and just from the HOF antics last year the guy is hugely popular with his peers. (Although he clearly pissed someone off at some point to ruin his MITB run) People, even wrestling journalists didn’t seem to get the reason why angle was happy to put him over at mania and just bought the whole Corbin wrecked RAW thing. What? Seriously!


----------



## bromley (Jul 25, 2019)

Corbin is a solid upper midcarder. Elias was over as fuck with his hometown insults and then used as someone for Braun to squash. Bewildering. Guess they punished the fans for getting behind someone they weren't meant too.

Anyone know if Big Damo's (CBA to google his wwe name!) promos regarding the troubles were a shoot?  Talking of Insanity, Eric Young should get properly involved in the 24/7 title. The guy could be a professional comedian and they're doing nothing with him.


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2019)

bromley said:


> Corbin is a solid upper midcarder. Elias was over as fuck with his hometown insults and then used as someone for Braun to squash. Bewildering. Guess they punished the fans for getting behind someone they weren't meant too.
> 
> Anyone know if Big Damo's (CBA to google his wwe name!) promos regarding the troubles were a shoot?  Talking of Insanity, Eric Young should get properly involved in the 24/7 title. The guy could be a professional comedian and they're doing nothing with him.



I think there was an in-ring performance issue with Elias that limited his potential as much as anything else. I cant comment on Corbin really because the last time I saw him he still had long hair etc, it was early days! More on that from me in a min.

I havent checked the Big Damo(Killian Dane) thing properly but I did hear about a promo that seemed to include a reference to all his childhood friends being dead, is that what you are referring to? I should check exactly what he said, but if its what I remember then I do question the plausibility of some of it. I'm going to learn more about him and will probably have some more to say later.


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2019)

cybershot said:


> As you say the guy is a good wrestler, and just from the HOF antics last year the guy is hugely popular with his peers. (Although he clearly pissed someone off at some point to ruin his MITB run) People, even wrestling journalists didn’t seem to get the reason why angle was happy to put him over at mania and just bought the whole Corbin wrecked RAW thing. What? Seriously!



I only follow a few wrestling journalists, the shit that the ones I dont follow come out with means I dont waste my time on them.

Decent journalists who know the business will very well understand that old, retiring stars should put over someone from the next generation on their way out, and will complain when that is not done. In this case I think some of them might have been sour on the way Angle was used when he returned to the company, and some of this shit would also have devalued his ability to put someone over by losing in his final match.


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2019)

Hmm I dont think I'm going to be able to see Killians comments for myself, or find out all the facts of his life. In the absence of such details, I'll probably chalk it up to 'some basis in reality but exaggerated, volume turned up to 11'.


----------



## bromley (Jul 25, 2019)

It's NXT from 13:48.

Among other things he claims to be deaf in one ear due to a cat bomb on his street and that he's the only surviving member of his high school class.


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2019)

So they had Cena making fun of Jimmy Usos previous arrest, and then within days he has been arrested again for DUI. Fuckwits.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 26, 2019)

Yeah, they need to do something about this. Their guys are known to be on the road constantly, and the news is increasingly filled with reports of pissed-up driving


----------



## cybershot (Jul 26, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Yeah, they need to do something about this. Their guys are known to be on the road constantly, and the news is increasingly filled with reports of pissed-up driving



The whole rental car thing has been criticised quite a lot recently, and it's understandable. These people work 5 days a week, travel from place to place in rental cars (usually buddied up) and then also have to perform in the ring. Driving itself is hard work and requires you to be on the ball, I'm surprised they perform as well as they do, because some of them must be completely drained. 

Also surely it's cheaper and more economic to put them on planes these days, and save them the hassle of being drained/pulled over.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2019)

Sounds like there will now be Wednesday night wars. 2 hours of live NXT every week on USA network, to go against AEW.

So, kiss NXT as we knew it goodbye.

This news should be confirmed on Raw tonight, with some additional element, the details of which havent leaked yet.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 19, 2019)

Sounds like AEW have resolved their co commentary issues. Maybe. 

Tony Schiavone Signs With AEW, Update On His Status With MLW - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2019)

Ah I hadnt seen that news, cheers.

I make no predictions about his role, I suppose its possible they will just use him in hype videos like they did at least once in the past.

eg:


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2019)

AEW Seemingly Purchases 'Wednesday Night War' Domains, Furthering Feud With WWE



> Like a secret cheat code in a video game, AEW appears to have purchased domain names pertaining to the soon-to-be clichèd term "Wednesday Night War(s)."



Its so hard to predict how this will all pan out. I think its safe to say that WWE have run off so many fans this century that there are more than enough of them to build a huge new audience with. But how many of those people will actually watch AEW is a big unknown.

I was originally hoping that AEW would not keep acknowledging and poking at WWE or have this sort of war, but I think I was wrong about the situation. I was thinking of all the pathetic ways Impact used to do this, and how low-rent it made them seem at times. But it looks like a fair chunk of AEWs support comes from fans that are anti-WWE and want some aspects of AEW to reflect this. Plus, once AEW started getting ticket sales etc that made the TV industry interested in them, Vince was never going to leave them alone. He has always had a ruthless desire to destroy the competition, and he takes this threat seriously, unlike TNA which was such a minnow that a proper 'war' was not at all sustainable.

I suppose one eventuality is that all of WWEs issues, from crap product to too much product to too much micro-management by an increasingly old and out of touch and spread too thin Vince McMahon, declining ratings, network numbers decline, live attendance decline, unhappy wrestlers, getting into a war with hot new competition and Vinces attention being spread even thinner when his new american football league starts, eventually leads to doom. Doom for Vince if not for WWE itself (they have too much revenue from tv etc deals for the company to die within the lifetime of these multi-year deals), nothing lasts forever, not even Vince McMahon as master of his own empire.

I dont know if it will happen like that. There is always a chance WWE will find fresh success with something and change momentum. If they fail to do that, then the timing of all of this is certainly interesting, it could become a perfect storm. When I think of all the times they wasted my time as a viewer, by not sticking to the stories that are supposed to engage us, or not letting hot new stars be the wrestlers and stars they should be, I am certainly on the long list of people who think WWE deserve to have their ass handed to them. I've been after an alternative that ticks all the right boxes for me for almost 19 years now, when they dropped the Kurt-Steph-HHH love triangle angle in a manner that foreshadowed how they would be careless with storylines ever since.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2019)

Oh Schiavone is also in at least one of their All Out hype videos. I havent caught up with all of these yet, I will probably watch some of them in the coming days as we get closer to that show.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 19, 2019)

My big worry with AEW is that it’s almost too much like WCW. Wrestlers booking the shows and having creative control over their characters is always a recipe for disaster and part of the reason why WWE is so micro managed to that end.  

If however they can book engaging fueds with excellent matches and not too much “blood and gore” which I doubt TNT will go for anyway as like WWE they will have advertisers to please.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2019)

cybershot said:


> My big worry with AEW is that it’s almost too much like WCW. Wrestlers booking the shows and having creative control over their characters is always a recipe for disaster and part of the reason why WWE is so micro managed to that end.



There are things that can go wrong with their wrestler-booker setup, but I wouldnt compare it to WCW. There have been successful bookers who were still active wrestlers plenty of times in the past. The situation with bullshit involving egotistical, insecure megastars with creative control clauses in their contracts was a problem, but that really isnt the same as letting wrestlers book. Rather its interfering with booking, refusing to do a job, and adding to the toxic atmosphere at that company. An atmosphere that drove off the wrestlers who got a good portion of their self-respect from giving a shit about the quality of the matches and their own work rate.

Some of the main potential pitfalls with booking can happen whether its an active wrestler doing the booking, a former wrestler, or someone who didnt have an in-ring career themselves. Burnout and repeating themselves are big ones, as well as learning the wrong lessons from specific successes and failures. Many bookers, including famous wrestler-bookers of their time, ended up with mixed records. They had boom periods where they were considered to be great, periods where putting themselves over as the top star was entirely in tune with what their audience wanted, and periods where everything was sliding rapidly towards doom, and where their positioning of themselves on the card was at odds with what the audience wanted. Dusty Rhodes was probably a good example of both the good and bad at different moments, and hopefully Cody learnt the right lessons in that regard.

As for why WWE is so micro-managed. Well, back in the Monday Night wars, a key difference between WWF and WCW was that it was very clear who was boss in WWF, and that alters the backstage dynamic a lot. But if we look at the periods where McMahon had his greatest successes, it often involved the right blend of what the company, bookers, agents etc wanted, and how the wrestler would take that and make it work with his character and promos. There may have been some scripting, but not the sort of bullshit corporate speak that they force many wrestlers these days to deliver in ways that just dont seem very human. Plus WWE in the last decade or so decided to indulge in further counter-productive corporate brain farts such as trying to convince their audience that their brand is the thing that matters, and to de-emphasise individual superstars. That really is part of their corporate philosophy these days, and it shows, and its bloody stupid. The business was always built on stars and particular feuds they got in that really put bums on seats. People can care about specific promotions too, but a lot of that represents a core base audience, and for success and boom periods you need a wider buzz with the public.



> If however they can book engaging fueds with excellent matches and not too much “blood and gore” which I doubt TNT will go for anyway as like WWE they will have advertisers to please.



Blood and gore will likely be a special attraction type thing that they only do at pay-per-views. They will probably do that sort of thing a little more than I would like, but as long as they dont become a one trick pony I think that will be ok, and was very much a small but significant part of the traditional pro wrestling they seem to be trying to recreate with AEW.

I suppose my concerns are about whether any of their wacky stuff turns some people off - eg some of the stuff they did on pre-shows, which might not have been taking account of the fact they were making first impressions which might stick. And there is a big difference between writing, producing etc the shows they have done so far, and churning out hours of television every single week. I wonder about the size of their roster. I wonder about some of the moves WWE might try to pull. I think they've got a fair chance of being ok, and more than ok, certainly the best chance anyone has had in the last 20 years. I've no idea what to expect from their weekly TV, maybe I wont love it. I'm not exactly someone who has been religiously watching 'being the elite' for however long that show has been going.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 20, 2019)

You could also argue social-media/Internet is also a big factor why WWE is the way it is now. Wrestlers are real people. Gone are the days for example where Bundy would have to hide under a cover in the back of a car to get out of an arena, or Sgt Slaughter's wife would have to have 24/7 guards around their home. Kayfabe is dead.

Egos and just blarting straight out on social media is a huge problem. Sasha Banks for example can go and pull her shit after dropping the tag titles at WrestleMania, which back before days of internet would have seen her buried and never return, let alone return straight to the top of the card, which seems to be way WWE do things these days and pisses me off. Want a push? You may as well purposely injure yourself so you're off for 3 months and then you'll pretty much instantaneously return to a mega push!


----------



## elbows (Aug 20, 2019)

cybershot said:


> which back before days of internet would have seen her buried and never return, let alone return straight to the top of the card, which seems to be way WWE do things these days and pisses me off.



Never say never was always the safer bet with wrestling. People who seemed to burn bridges in a rather permanent way often returned given enough time.

Part of it is due to Vince - he is one of those crazy billionaire types who doesnt want people to challenge him, but at the same time the people who stand up to him and spar with him are more likely to win his respect.

For example, Bobby Heenan avoided publicly having a go at Vince. He didnt get his job back, while others who had been far less restrained in their years away from WWF did. Such are the joys of having to deal with the contradictions of billionaire bosses.

Personally in many scenarios I side with the wrestlers, and for every idiot that refused to do a job for shit reasons, there are people who did the right thing in standing up to nonsensical shit that harms their ability to get over. I also take this stance because of the way WWE have long classified their wrestlers as 'independent contractors' for all sorts of crappy reasons. So it serves them right when the talent actually acts like independent entities by refusing to have their value destroyed by Vinces crap whims. Also, in the past the top stars of WWE would have more say in terms of their character, storylines and the lines scripted for them, and this was often a good thing, not a bad thing. 

I think I am only able to take this stance because the mindset of the current generations of wrestlers is quite different to the 1980s & 1990s wrestlers. The lifestyle is different, the attitude towards in ring workrate is different, the attitude towards the audience is different - its not just that kayfabe is gone, but also other carnival aspects such as treating the audience as stupid money marks who deserve to be exploited. I think WWE management actually has its own modified modern version of this, eg they dont give two shits about how often they false advertise a wrestler or match, and I think it costs them over time and is out of step with what a modern promotion can do in terms of its relationship with the fans.

WWE attitude towards the fans is another example of their shit corporate speak and how they have been trying to make everything about the brand and not superstar wrestlers. The WWE Universe. Just fuck off with that shit. I enjoy wrestling so much more when I dont have to digest such phrases. It will be so easy for AEW to come across as more authentic compared to this shit.

Anyway I see that WWE still has the silly attitudes towards leaks - apparently they didnt announce the NXT stuff on Raw last night because they were pissed off that news had leaked.


----------



## elbows (Sep 4, 2019)

How was NXT UK? I only had time to watch AEW All Out, which I enjoyed.

I see that not only was Jericho the first WWF Undisputed champ, and the first AEW world champion, but has probably also set the record for the quickest theft of a new belt!

Chris Jericho reports wrestling title belt stolen

I would be more suspicious that this story was a work if it were not for local police confirming the story. I still retain a little suspicion. Either way I believe he has already cut a promo, which I havent seen yet, so they will make the most of the publicity.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 4, 2019)

Apparently it’s been returned.

NXT UK was very enjoyable as well. Majority of the matches were very good. Main event perhaps went on a little too long and started to lose interest as the false finishes continued. perhaps my only gripe.


----------



## elbows (Sep 6, 2019)

Yeah, the guy that found it reckons they probably left it on top of the boot by accident and it fell off at some stage.

Meanwhile it sounds like Bischoff has had more power to fuck everything up on Smackdown than he should have been given. I have little idea what the weekly AEW show will actually be like, but it should at least be refreshing to have a show that lacks writers scripting everything.

Details about that and a big writer reshuffle here:

Inside WWE's 'SmackDown' and 'Raw' Creative Team Shakeup (Exclusive)



> The “SmackDown” moves also come amid growing questions about Bischoff’s leadership of the show. The insider cited Bischoff’s decision to hire Stevie Long, a former “Sons of Anarchy” writer who was found asleep in the writers room by longtime producer Michael P.S. Hayes on his first day on the road with WWE. (Long is still with WWE.)
> 
> Bischoff declined to comment; Long’s manager was unable to provide a comment from his client by the time of publication.
> 
> ...



I suppose I will make myself watch at least one Smackdown when it moves US station & reboots, and at least a few NXTs when that gets US TV and goes head-to-head with AEW. There will have to be drastic WWE changes for me to stick with any of their shows for more than a few weeks at a time these days, even when the Wednesday night wars begin.


----------



## bromley (Sep 9, 2019)

Ref did a three count at Rev Pro, one of the heels Sha Samuel slammed him, his tag team partner Boden gave him a shoot beating. The ref can no longer referee wrestling or football (his main source of income) as a result. 

https://411mania.com/wrestling/revo...d-in-shoot-attack-from-wrestlers-after-match/


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 21, 2019)

Nearly 1.2m views for the first USA NXT show, surpassing almost all predictions. How many stick with it next week will be very telling (not worrying too much about AEW - it's 2019, people can easily watch both if they think it's worth doing so). Over half the RAW/SD audience on a fraction of the budget and without 25 years of hype/Vinnie Mac/Bucky Beaver/Michael Cole/The Authority etc... Hopefully the old man will just leave Tripers to get on with it and not view it as a Talking Smack moment.

Not happy that I now have to wait until Friday to watch due to network restrictions (not shown live or at all on UK tele of course) - not realising this, I clicked to watch on Thursday and was immediately presented with Roddy Strong avec NA title belt from the second half of the show 

Wasn't impressed at all by the women's fourway spotfest - why not give us two matches this evo, with a match between the two winners next week and just cut out that Aliyah garbage? Great NA title match between Strong and Dream. AWESOME strikefest between Dunne and Ruas. I LOVE Oney Lorcan, but I don't want him as a fucking cruiserweight - he has potential to be a huge star. Fell asleep and missed the streetfight - reports suggest I didn't miss much.

I'd say that Dream should've only lost the NA title if he was about to win the big one, but fuck it, give it to Peter Doone.

Never watched NXTUK so I have no idea what's going on, but I already know most of the Imperium and approve!

One thing that's really niggling me - there is no NXT UK Championship, it's the WWE UK Championship, far more prestigious than the WWE US championship in my view. Dunne's reign (having overtaken Asuka) AFAIK was the longest title run since the late 80s, and that one was only because they forgot they were still employing Rockin' Robin.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 21, 2019)

NXT UK is ok and they’ve been building some good stories. BUT. where that all goes now who knows as Dunn, ripley and now imperium have all shown up on the main NXT show over the last few weeks. 

There’s still too many squash matches and pointless matches on NXT UK but I guess it’s difficult to build storylines when things are taped weeks I’m advamce and by the time you get to next taping some of those people are not cleared to wrestle and they end up off tv for 6 weeks with no explanation. 

I’m surprised with main WWE going to BT Sport over here from Jan and AEW on ITV they haven’t tried to get NXT UK on one of the free to air channels to be honest.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 22, 2019)

Ok so I clearly or ITV and AEW didn’t make clear what their UK TV show plans are or for how long the ITV deal was for as by the sounds of this article, AEW Dynamite doesn’t yet have a home in the UK.

They way they talked before about the ITV deal and saying things like ‘our deal puts us in millions of more homes in the UK than their new deal does’ made me assume ITV was already on board for the weekly tv show. Now either I read into that wrong, or something sour has gone down inbetween.

The Young Bucks Comment On AEW TV Deal In The UK - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 22, 2019)

Interesting...

No, I think most of us were under the impression it was going to air live on ITV4. In fact, I'm sure I read recently on something vaguely ITV-official where they said "we'll air it live, and then again at a more UK-friendly time".

Had been mildly aware there were still not definitive plans, though.


----------



## elbows (Sep 26, 2019)

I became aware recently that there was still no ITV details. There are now. Its shit (Sunday mornings) and a bit confusing in terms of how it will change in the future (since PPVs are Saturday nights and they said we'll see the tv show before the PPV). And it seems that their 'live international' plans currently involve us having to pay $2.99 an episode or $4.99/month for AEW Plus. (Via fite tv).

I consider this to be the first big disappointment and misstep of AEW.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 26, 2019)

08:20 on Sunday mornings?! Jeeeesus 

I wonder where the sticking point is. Maybe Fite didn't want to give up live rights? Or offered a better deal for live rights than ITV?

Also, great work by Forbes on the opening line of their article:


> *British and Welsh wrestling fans* found themselves a bit disappointed on Wednesday evening local time.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 26, 2019)

Hadn't occurred to me, but just read the point on Twitter that 08:20 on a Sunday may also lead to edits as it's waaaaaaaaaay before the watershed.

Either there was some weird disagreement somewhere, or they want to push people to pay on the Fite app to watch live.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 26, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Hadn't occurred to me, but just read the point on Twitter that 08:20 on a Sunday may also lead to edits as it's waaaaaaaaaay before the watershed.
> 
> Either there was some weird disagreement somewhere, or they want to push people to pay on the Fite app to watch live.



Yeah it's gonna be bad, Cody confirmed on Twitter it's going to be a TV-14 show, so it's going to be cut to shreds with pans to the crowd when there are chair shots etc.

This is a big error on their part, it won't bother me too much as I'll torrent the main show after it's aired to watch on the train in the morning, but for those who dont have access or don't want to use illegal methods, this is really bad for UK fans, especially after blowing their trumpet about how important the UK was to them. Because it really doesn't seem like we are afterall.

ETA: according to this the Sunday morning show will be the full two hours (no doubt cut to shreads)

AEW And ITV Announce Details On Dynamite & PPV Viewing For The UK, Tony Khan Comments - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 26, 2019)

In other UK related news, NXT UK is moving to Thursdays, I guess due to influx of Wednesday wrestling now. Should have moved it to Tuesday imo ahead of the rush to keep up to date with the night before.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 26, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Yeah it's gonna be bad, Cody confirmed on Twitter it's going to be a TV-14 show, so it's going to be cut to shreds with pans to the crowd when there are chair shots etc.
> 
> This is a big error on their part, it won't bother me too much as I'll torrent the main show after it's aired to watch on the train in the morning, but for those who dont have access or don't want to use illegal methods, this is really bad for UK fans, especially after blowing their trumpet about how important the UK was to them. Because it really doesn't seem like we are afterall.
> 
> ...


I think had they not said "ITV4" before this, then announcing that "live it'll be on Fite and then repeated on ITV4" would have gone down ok.

WWE has been on Sky and now BT, both of which are paid services, and you've also got the WWE Network and all the On Demand streaming services for other promotions, so it's not like wrestling fans aren't used to paying for access. But, we've had months of "it's going to be on ITV4", a free service, so now this feels like a climb-down/something's been taken away.

So, yeah, badly played...


----------



## elbows (Sep 26, 2019)

Its hard to know quite how much it will be cut, because I think a bunch of stuff that we are used to on their PPVs are not planned for the weekly telly anyway.

However, I think they did make a thing of how their tv would not be PG like WWE, so I assume there will still some stuff on ITVs cutting room floor.

To be honest I hate ITV and adverts anyway, so it wont bother me personally too much, but its a big shame in terms of the broader UK popularity. Might all change within weeks anyway though.

I dont really imagine staying up every week to watch it live, but I suspect I will do that for at least the first episode, via fite tv.

I didnt watch the 'new' NXT but the first one sounded good. I've never watched NXT UK either, but I shoul since I want to see some Walter matches, having heard about him for several years.


----------



## elbows (Sep 26, 2019)

Turns out it was a problem between TNT (AEW USA TV partner) and ITV - TNT are doing 16 minutes of adverts per hour and ITV are only allowed 12 minutes of adverts per hour (terrestrial broadcast regulations), and they couldnt come to an arrangement. So that fucked the live showing, and they need time to edit content into the UK show to fill the gaps so I guess thats what killed the Friday evening showing too.

Before this snag, it was supposed to be live on ITV4 and also on that channel on a Friday night, as well as the Sunday replay.

There is supposed to be a 1 hour edited version shown on the main ITV channel quite late on Monday nights, which may yet help with the casual UK audience.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 26, 2019)

4 minutes?? Just run a bloody 4 minute short! You could make a whole thing of it, reach out to 'content creators' to fill the time. Like E4 do with their stings.

Bloody hell...


----------



## elbows (Sep 26, 2019)

Well, 4 minutes per hour so 8 minutes. And its more complicated when its a live show.

Maybe there were other things that went wrong too, between ITV and TNT, I dont know, its the bloody tv business and since it is TNTs show in many ways they get to call plenty of the shots.

Anyway I am looking forward to this new era, even though I expect AEW to be a mixed bag in some ways, not free from things to criticise. And there is way too much wrestling and hours of tv per week overall, its hard to even keep up with all the reports into great matches, let alone watch them all. And since I finally totally stopped watching all WWE stuff I find sticking to that more compelling than the idea of going back, even for NXT. Probably I will feel compelled to watch the first NXT that goes against AEW, and the first Smackdown once it reboots on Fox.


----------



## elbows (Sep 27, 2019)

Michael Cole is moving to Smackdown, so maybe I will watch Raw instead


----------



## cybershot (Sep 27, 2019)

elbows said:


> Michael Cole is moving to Smackdown, so maybe I will watch Raw instead



Lawler back on RAW, FFS.

Do rate Vic Joseph though, so hopefully he will do well on RAW.


----------



## elbows (Sep 27, 2019)

I dont think I am familar with Vic Joseph yet, as 205 Live came along when I had already had just about enough of WWE.

Since it is a special week coming up, maybe I will try to watch a bit of everything. Way too many hours of shows to watch it all though, maybe I will skim Raw and Smackdown, watch AEW and NXT in full.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 28, 2019)

Supposedly, Jerry Lawler is just filling in on Raw until Mickie James takes over. Vic Joseph is perfectly fine, but I'm sad to lose Tom Phillips. He and Corey Graves on NXT were IMO the best announce team since Gorilla and Heenan or Gorilla and Jesse.

Saying that, I used to like Rich Brennan, and they fired him, so what do I know?


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 28, 2019)

elbows said:


> W
> to call plenty of the shots
> 
> .



Nod to Jim Ross?


----------



## elbows (Oct 2, 2019)

Not sure if I picked up that phrase from him or elsewhere. I know I got 'stick a fork in him, he's done' and 'mountain of misinformation' from Gorilla Monsoon.

I watched about half of Raw. I dont think I could review it fairly based on that, since I am so out of touch with the product. I can tell that the Heyman era Raw is better than the shit level it had sunk to when I stopped watching, but thats not enough to get me to watch it again on a regular basis. The new set is cool in some ways, pyro etc is back, announce team are not so annoying but still has that WWE over-produced feel to it.

I've spent my $4.99 for a months worth of AEW dynamite on fite.tv. Watched a bit of some rambling fite.tv live hype show thats currently on, just to make sure the fite.tv app was working ok with my smart tv box. Only thing of note is that Tony Schiavone has dyed his facial hair several shades too dark to be convincing.


----------



## elbows (Oct 2, 2019)

Also:


----------



## cybershot (Oct 3, 2019)

Good move by ITV. and the 1st episode. Wowsers. 

Raw was its usual shower of shite. 

AEW’s opener sounds 9/10. 

NXT while also solid just couldn’t compete despite a couple of surprises. 



Spoiler



mamma Mia. Balor back in NXT and the return of my ultimate fave tomasso ciampa.



Over to you smackdown premiere on fox. You got some work to do.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 3, 2019)

elbows said:


> Also:
> 
> View attachment 185798


Interesting! That's this evening sorted, then


----------



## elbows (Oct 3, 2019)

Yeah that AEW show was a fun start. Commentators enjoyed the novelty of some swearing being permissible/encouraged. Not sure how much of the bastard PAC we will see on Sunday mornings, since that part of his name is in his intro video etc.

I enjoyed not having to watch any adverts on fite.tv during the show, although nothing much happened during these breaks. Well there was one exception, Jericho got on the mic during his match to ask who threw a wiener into the ring, while holding aforementioned wiener aloft, and then crushing it.

Not sure when I will get a chance to watch NXT.

I'm not that excited about Smackdown, especially as I expect the first one to be the typical WWE overloaded 'bring back the real stars from the past' thing. I've not much faith in WWE main roster improvements, so any hope stems from the fact that Fox are taking a hands-on approach to the show, maybe they will make the tone and presentation better. I wont be betting on it!


----------



## elbows (Oct 3, 2019)

That wiener thing.


----------



## elbows (Oct 4, 2019)

Fuck WWE and their insincere bullshit. All this congratulatory shit when they are only saying this so they can make the point about a marathon. And lol that they lost badly in the Wednesday ratings this week, long may it continue.



> Following the beginning of the "Wednesday Night War," WWE issued a statement today congratulating AEW on the premiere of Dynamite.
> 
> The statement said: “Congratulations to AEW on a successful premiere. The real winners of last night’s head-to-head telecasts of NXT on USA Network and AEW on TNT are the fans, who can expect Wednesday nights to be a competitive and wild ride as this is a marathon, not a one-night sprint.”


----------



## elbows (Oct 7, 2019)

WWE sure know how to piss off the fans.

With Smackdown they advertised loads of historic big names, and then changed their mind. So the likes of Austin and Undertaker were missing entirely, and others like Hogan and Flair were just shown in the crowd. Fans in the building were still expecting Austin when the show ended, with no post-show dark stuff, so they chanted AEW.

Then, at Hell in a Cell, fans were unhappy with the end of the Rollins-Fiend match, and chanted bullshit and AEW.

I watched some of Smackdown but ended up skimming over a lot of it. They had their big angles for the first show, mostly setting up stuff for the bloody Saudi Arabia show. But there was nothing that made me think 'oh this show is going to be really exciting and different for months to come'.


----------



## bromley (Oct 7, 2019)

Hogan got his entrance music for sitting at ring side! Awful finish on Smackdown, AEW can make ground on this.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 7, 2019)




----------



## cyril_smear (Oct 7, 2019)

Aew worth try watch on catch up?


----------



## cybershot (Oct 7, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> Aew worth try watch on catch up?



It’s pretty much everything you’d want from a first show. Imo. 

A solid opening match. Introduction of major players, storylines and a good old fashioned ass kicking.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 10, 2019)

An unscripted Chris Jericho is a thing of beauty.


----------



## elbows (Oct 11, 2019)

I will take this AEW era opportunity to stop moaning. Far too much of this century has involved me moaning about McMahon, HHH, Dixie Carter, Vince Russo.

No more! AEW is not perfect but it doesnt need to be, it just needs to be decent and not leave me with the feeling that there is no point getting invested in wrestlers or storylines or that the promotion might piss in the fans faces at any moment.


----------



## cyril_smear (Oct 11, 2019)

I haven't watched wrestling for a long time, and turned my nose up at it from around 2003 onwards, but I quite enjoyed the programme.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 12, 2019)

Christ. That draft war room thing with actors pretending to be execs for Fox and USA was just plain embarrassing. Or maybe it was just embarrassing for anyone not based in the US. Either way. Cringeworthy.


----------



## bromley (Oct 13, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Christ. That draft war room thing with actors pretending to be execs for Fox and USA was just plain embarrassing. Or maybe it was just embarrassing for anyone not based in the US. Either way. Cringeworthy.


The Smackdown Fox robot!

Was one of the worst wrestling shows I've seen. The brand split is a joke with the wild cards and how the champions can switch brands. If you are a USA executive and get extra picks, which makes the brand Fox are showing seem second rate, why not pick all of the champions? Having more than one world champion is stupid, as is having the cruiserweight title on it's own show and having that after smackdown when people have gone home rather than use it to pop the crowd which Nitro used to do, etc, etc.

I haven't even mentioned the main events of the Saudi Arabia show! Brock attacking Dominic, Cain Velasquez seeks revenge. It's an old school storyline and a decent one, there is no need for the title to be on the line. The title being on the line and Fury being undefeated is probably clues as to who wins...

The celebrities usage reminds me of WCW circa '98, which was their most profitable year.

I like AEW, I can pick faults in it, like the number of number 1 contenders but I'm so glad there's an alternative to this shit!


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2019)

Yep. WWE are clearly going for the big name sports/celeb approach to bolster ratings and get mentioned in main stream press. I guess it’s working as BBC online had a huge piece on the fury/strowman ‘fued’ On Tuesday.

I remember Vince before a raw in the attitude era coming on before the show and saying they didn’t want to ‘insult people’s intelligence’

Well, it’s time to start doing that again and modernise further, because after just two weeks AEW is looking a far superior product for ‘pro wrestling’ fans.

Speaking of AEW it seems only fair to mention the opening match between young bucks and private party. 2 weeks and 2 superb opening matches with great near falls and seeing the bucks put over the party gives me faith that omega/Rhodes and the jacksons are making good booking decisions so far. My worry is if TNT demand better ratings and we start seeing favouritism in the booking decisions.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2019)

'They must change after this' was a sentiment that kept be watching WWE for many years after I should have just quit. Even if McMahon died or lost power tomorrow, I would not have faith that quick fixes would be forthcoming, since some of the bullshit might be cemented at the corporate level, we just wont know until Vince is gone from that picture.

Cain had already entered the world of pro-wrestling so if WWE hadnt given him a contract someone else would. Fury contacted the WWE some years back but they were not interested then (Fury was probably in trouble at the time I would guess) but now they were. Both FOX and the Saudi regime could be factors too - FOX are doing lots of cross promotion and are happy to use their figureheads from other sports products on their network with WWE stuff, even when those people havent heard of hardly any wrestlers after the Hogan-Flair-Rhodes type era. I believe the Saudis want a UFC show but UFC refuse to go there, so I wouldnt be shocked if they wanted Cain and helped fund that. After all, this is the regime that were bitter that Qatar has the football world cup, so got WWE to do their own world cup in Saudi 

I gave NXT a go this week, as I heard Walter was on it. The in-ring action may well be routinely better than AEW, but as a show overall AEW is so much better. Commentary a big part of that, and atmosphere in the building, although that small NXT crowd really tries hard.

I heard that not only was the WWE draft so far terrible TV shit, but the draft picks on Smackdown were almost identical to some provisional draft list they published on WWE days earlier, even including the order of the announcements  I didnt watch, I heard a review and I just could not face it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 13, 2019)

elbows said:


> as a show overall AEW is so much better. Commentary a big part of that


Interesting you say that, as I'm still not convinced about the AEW team. JR is still kind of all over the place, an doesn't seem to fully understand the roster, and Schiavone doesn't seem add much at all. Exaclibur seems the best of the bunch to me.

I haven't watched NXT for a long time, but their team always seemed a bit more on top of what was going on, the stories, etc. I get that it's early days for AEW and this is a part of it too, but just find it interesting you would say the commentary puts AEW over NXT.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> Interesting you say that, as I'm still not convinced about the AEW team. JR is still kind of all over the place, an doesn't seem to fully understand the roster, and Schiavone doesn't seem add much at all. Exaclibur seems the best of the bunch to me.
> 
> I haven't watched NXT for a long time, but their team always seemed a bit more on top of what was going on, the stories, etc. I get that it's early days for AEW and this is a part of it too, but just find it interesting you would say the commentary puts AEW over NXT.



I didnt watch NXT for ages either, so I was out of touch with their commentary until this week. I will have to watch again to judge it fairly, but my problems with it this week were mostly:

Beth Phoenix is not very good at commentary.
I love Mauro Ranallo but:
I wish he had multiple different intensity gears, he wears me out earlier in the show rather than building to a nice peak.
I love word-play and puns, but he does it so much that it comes across as too clever/forced.
Most of what makes the main roster WWE commentary terrible is thankfully missing here, but in some ways the OTT Mauro stuff I just moaned about takes its place.

AEW commentary far from perfect, but it is low-key enough that it does not wear me out before the end of the show. Thats mostly all I want at this stage, but I'm sure I will get pickier as time goes on. I suppose I'm judging JR compared to his other commentary performances of the last decade - I was one of those people who was very upset that WWE dumped him long before his time. But when I heard him in various places in recent years, he did seem to have lost something, and I was thinking that maybe he was past it. Maybe he still is, but he notably upped his game for AEW compared to other work of recent years. A somewhat vague and lost Jim Ross is still better for my ears than most!

Perhaps my main AEW criticism so far is that I'm not really sure they have embraced the idea that once they started on TNT, a chunk of their audience is probably new and not aware of their product or many of the wrestlers and their histories. I would like a few more video packages, interviews, promos or commentators building up the backstories in a far more convincing manner than they have done so far. Apparently some people are also concerned that the likes of the Bucks and Omega have gone overboard with booking themselves to loose too often as a result of not wanting to be seen to be abusing their management power, and that this might not be good for the new viewers who have not had the opportunity to see these guys as big winners and stars in the past. I'm not that bothered about it, but these are things to keep an eye on in the weeks and months ahead.

I hope MJF doesnt last too long as a face, for his facial expressions are perfect for a heel!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 13, 2019)

Aye, fair points. I know what you mean about the different styles in terms of energies.


elbows said:


> I hope MJF doesnt last too long as a face, for his facial expressions are perfect for a heel!


I know what you mean, but I'm quite liking the slow burn for this one. _Everyone_ knows he's going to turn heel; hell, he practically already is a heel to everyone but Cody, and that's a great storyline to watch play out.

Plus, he's so entertaining to the crowd that they're still cheering him, so maybe it kind of makes sense to play with this lines somewhat at the point; let the crowd enjoy his work, then make sure they boo him when he does turn.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2019)

If anyone has a soft spot for the sort of US studio wrestling shows that used to happen in the territory days, this might be fun


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2019)

I’d go as far as saying Mauro Ranello is without doubt the best commentator in pro wrestling at the moment. It’s a shame his anxiety doesn’t allow him to travel regular as he would clearly own it on a main roster show. Well, he did, when he did smackdown but as previously mentioned anxiety out a stop to that as well as alleged bullying from JBL. 

I worry if NXT does start going around the country they will lose Ranello but as elbows has mentioned nxt kind of looks amateur now coming out of full sail. Although it does have its charm about it they could at least start doing smaller arenas in my opinion. But if it did that it would no longer really be a development territory I guess and would just be another main roster brand in its own right. 

I guess the sensible decision is to just keep it where it is for the foreseeable but yeah. I dunno. I love NXT but AEW is making it look bad production wise.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2019)

elbows said:


> If anyone has a soft spot for the sort of US studio wrestling shows that used to happen in the territory days, this might be fun




I really like what they are doing. I just can’t fit anymore wrestling onto my train journeys. And that’s with skipping past a lot of the (Wwe) shit.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I’d go as far as saying Mauro Ranello is without doubt the best commentator in pro wrestling at the moment. It’s a shame his anxiety doesn’t allow him to travel regular as he would clearly own it on a main roster show. Well, he did, when he did smackdown but as previously mentioned anxiety out a stop to that as well as alleged bullying from JBL.



I dont want Mauro on a main roster show so long as Vince McMahon is around to shout at people through their headsets. JBL and travel were not the only issues, I'm sure it was Vince too, and a lot of JBLs bullying was Vince-sponsored anyway, at least thats the impression I got.

I will probably keep watching NXT for a bit, will be interesting to see if I can readjust to the commentary again and not find it draining. Probably some of what I was moaning about was not down to the commentary team, its just that extra level of fakeness that extends to the language used on WWE shows - NXT suffers from this much, much less than the main roster shows but its still there, and I guess I notice it more when I've been watching other promotions for a while.

Even before the move to becoming a television show on USA network, I had trouble thinking of NXT purely as a developmental territory. Largely because of the amount of talent they've got there that are years beyond needing to be in developmental. Looking at the ratings drop each week, I fear for the future of the show, if they take the 'war' seriously then how long will they go before they cannot resist making massive changes, any of which might spoil the things we like about NXT?


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2019)

Bischoff fired, that didnt last long!


----------



## cybershot (Oct 15, 2019)

Part of me thinks they only hired him to keep him out of AEWs grasp (I don’t think they would have hired him anyway) no doubt he now has an extended no compete clause in his pay off. 

Considering he moved his family it seems harsh. Not sure he was actually fired. His tweet seems pretty ok about it. No doubt we’ll find out soon on 83 weeks. Which may be part of the reason why Vince in his paranoid state has let him go. Probably also looking for a way to sack Renee young without it looking too obvious.


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I really like what they are doing. I just can’t fit anymore wrestling onto my train journeys. And that’s with skipping past a lot of the (Wwe) shit.



Yeah I wont watch it on a regular basis, just enjoyed the novelty of it. Watched a bit of episode 2 last night and the novelty was already wearing off, much as I was amused by Cornette saying that Trevor Murdoch looks like a baked potato with arms and legs. And Damien Sandow was on, I forgot he exists!

There is supposed to be some big news out of Japan any day now (tonight maybe?). There may also be NXT Japan news, but I think thats separate to whatever the other story is, dunno.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 16, 2019)

elbows said:


> There is supposed to be some big news out of Japan any day now (tonight maybe?). There may also be NXT Japan news, but I think thats separate to whatever the other story is, dunno.


From the Tights and Fights Facebook group:





> The Puro/Joshi rumour mill has it that BUSHIROAD (who own NJPW) are buying STARDOM.


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> From the Tights and Fights Facebook group:



Ah yes, makes sense. Its been known that NJPW have been looking for ways to expand into womens wrestling for a while. Its been generally thought that they would favour having it as its own promotion rather than putting womens matches on the main NJPW shows, but I am getting ahead of myself.


----------



## bromley (Oct 16, 2019)

Was Bischoff sacked? Seems bizarre. There is barely any difference between raw and smackdown I wonder how much creativity he actually had.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 16, 2019)

elbows said:


> Ah yes, makes sense. Its been known that NJPW have been looking for ways to expand into womens wrestling for a while. Its been generally thought that they would favour having it as its own promotion rather than putting womens matches on the main NJPW shows, but I am getting ahead of myself.


For various reasons, I'd much prefer women on the main NJPW shows. As someone who turned away from WWE in large part because their values don't match my own, the lack of women's wrestling (and the portrayal/use of the few women that do appear in NJPW) has been difficult to parse.

As you say though, general impression to this point has been they'd keep it separate.


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2019)

bromley said:


> Was Bischoff sacked? Seems bizarre. There is barely any difference between raw and smackdown I wonder how much creativity he actually had.



His appointment was weird in the first place and the few report I heard were that he was doing fuck all. But there were contradictions, since he was also blamed for some questionable hires (A sons of anarchy writer who was found asleep at work on his first day) and some botched creative angles (Reigns whodunnit Erick doppelganger).

Perhaps if I were Vince McMahon I would have hired Bischoff simply to take the fall when the inevitable Fox Smackdown ratings slide happened. Ratings did fall more than expected for the 2nd week on Fox, but still a bit soon to get rid of Bischoff if he was mostly only there to take the blame.

When he was hired there was talk that it was just TV industry bullshit - eg Bischoff still having some kind of positive reputation in the TV industry despite all his past failings. Following on from that there was a suggestion he was mostly put there to deal with Fox TV executives, since that was a world he should have been comfortable with.

Meanwhile regarding the NWA show, maybe I will just watch the spoof commercials each week


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2019)

Lord Camomile said:


> For various reasons, I'd much prefer women on the main NJPW shows. As someone who turned away from WWE in large part because their values don't match my own, the lack of women's wrestling (and the portrayal/use of the few women that do appear in NJPW) has been difficult to parse.
> 
> As you say though, general impression to this point has been they'd keep it separate.



Even though women wrestlers are taken seriously in Japan, I'm not looking to Japan to portray women in general properly - lots of objectification and misogynistic bullshit 

As for US promotions, one of the many reasons I hate Vince Russo is that he is clearly a woman-hating sack of shit. This showed up numerous times in the stuff he wrote for WWF, WCW and TNA. Thankfully we dont have to put up with his shit these days.

Not that I trust the likes of Paul Heyman to do a significantly better job - too much form from his ECW days. Ad I suspect there is this attitude that they need the soap-opera aspects, combined with some crap analysis of what they think their male audience wants. So we get infinite storylines where women are terrible to other women, and where every story involving a relationship with a beautiful woman will end in betrayal and humiliation.


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2019)

If current WWE were a person then I'd say they've had a complete mental breakdown over who is a babyface and who is a heel.

For many years they would occasionally make a wrong turn, or not execute it properly, or have certain wrestlers that they turned too often (Big Show as the most famous example). And they became somewhat notorious for using 'tag team splits' storylines way too much, and not having any patience, often breaking up teams before they were even established as a team/friends in the first place.

But when I watch bits of shows or, more often, listen to reviews of shows, it seems like they have gotten much worse and have totally lost their minds.

Some people are turning all the time, with no actual turn angle and explanation, and you never know if it will last or was for one week only. People are teaming with people they just feuded with, with no explanation. They have forgotten how to make babyfaces at all. And probably a bunch of other stuff that I dont even want to remember right now.

If it carries on this way then, despite the huge revenue streams and multi-year deals that the WWE currently enjoys, I would like to predict that Vince McMahon will lose control of WWE within 5 years. I dont care how much power you have or the level of your past successes, there are limits. His magic touch is gone, he cannot get the basics right, and the company does not resemble the one I first watched in the late 1980s where they actually had long terms plans they stuck with. And I hear he does the typical 'highly driven personality type' thing of hardly getting any sleep, which has badly caught up with his memory now that he is getting old. He might stay on as nominal head of things for a long time, but at this rate I cannot imagine him still micro-managing everything in 5 years, too much chaos, too many failures. And even though people like Paul Heyman dont have full control right now, there is some kind of structure in place that could actually serve either a slow or sudden descrease in the decision making power of McMahon.

Anyway like I said days ago, I really want to use the AEW as an opportunity to stop moaning about all these usual 'WWE is shit' subjects. I've just reached the point where I dont even want to read or listen to reviews of WWE shows, although I suppose I remain quite curious about details of absolute car crashes of their own making. So its not so easy to shut up about this, but I am going to keep trying, honest!


----------



## elbows (Oct 16, 2019)

Final thought on that for now.

One thing I will credit Heyman with is recognising talent and having the ability to get young, promising talent over.

So I think I will judge his Raw era and the chances of WWE turning things around by whether he is able to do that stuff properly in this era. WWE badly need it. I think he will get the opportunity to do it, but its then a question of whether these new talents can stick in the minds of the audience as 'proper stars' which requires several other things such as less phoney personalities & scripts, and other parts of WWE/Vince not then quickly ruining what Heyman has achieved with particular wrestlers.


----------



## bromley (Oct 17, 2019)

Reminds me of WCW in 1998, their most profitable year, over use of celebrities, show becoming boring. In fairness WWE has been shit since the start of the invasion angle apart from a few minor storylines (CM Punk pipe bomb, ECW one night stands, the shield) but I do think they are on a serious slide and AEW have come in at the right time.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 17, 2019)

AEW Wasn’t as strong this week but the show is still a million miles better than anything WWE are doing. No shitty ‘chat show’ segments. Hardly any promos. Story lines being done in the ring. It’s so refreshing.


----------



## elbows (Nov 3, 2019)

AEW is still a lot of fun.

WWE is still a disaster zone. Sounds like there was a shit 'when billionaires collide' thing in real life with Saudi Arabia - WWE hadnt been paid for previous Saudi shows, Vince cut the live feed of the show for Saudi TV, so they gave WWE money, but then got revenge by fucking with the main flight for WWE wrestlers leaving Saudi, preventing the talent departing, causing them to be stuck there for 24 hours. But Vince and the likes of Lesnar, Hogan, Flair, Fury escaped this by leaving on their own private flights. And WWE is desperate to claim it was just a mechanical issue, and further winding up talent by claiming that some wrestlers who were loyal chartered their own flight out of there so they could make Smackdown. Unintentionally implying those who didnt were not loyal.

For a company that already pisses off its wrestlers in so, so many ways, it will be interesting to see whether these disgusting events turn out to be the straw that breaks the camels back for some.

Due to attempts to keep the real story quiet, some details I am saying here could be wrong, but if there is never another Saudi show, and some wrestlers say strange things in the weeks ahead, we have some clues as to why that is.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 3, 2019)

I wrote this late last night so it's a bit gushy:

Almost all of the roster and production staff stuck in the desert after Flintstonemania, and the prospect of Bryan and Zayn having to somehow go an hour and Flair and Lynch being dragged over from Raw so that they could fill their primetime spot a week after their worst ratings in history. NO! Triple H throws his boys on a plane from Orlando to save the day.

Touchdown literally five whole minutes before show starts, but Lesnar and Heyman are there to kill time and deal with the title mess (the two of them having scarpered on their private jet the minute their own match was done with). Baszler kicks things off for the invasion, laying out Bayley and Sasha a mere 23 minutes after landing, presumably sprinting into the building from her NYPD escort. Ciampa's there too, though sadly he's challenging the MIz who is one of their few over faces right now. Zayn is in his usual role of chicken shit comic relief as we get our first primetime appearance from Riddle (and Lee). Fire and Desire are out for a match, but their opponents for the evening are detained backstage being flogged by Belair, presumably in honour of WWE's Saudi paymasters; they'll have to make do with Nox and Ripley instead. Ripley wastes no time in making the SD womens division look like a bunch of Total Divas castoffs. How will we end this show of shows? Well, why not a fucking dream match with the new guy going over clean?

One of the best shows they've done in decades. Will be interesting to see how many SD viewers tune into NXT next week.

NB: Won't comment on the endless rumours about technical difficulties and diplomatic crises other than to say that it would be, err, unusual, even for some entitled little princling to decide to kidnap a plane load of American celebrities who are in your islamic themepark for PR reasons, knowing that they work for two of the Orange Shit Gibbon's closest friends


----------



## cybershot (Nov 3, 2019)

NXT was announced to be part of Survivor Series at Crown Jewel, so part of me thinks some of this for SD was already planned, knowing full well guys would be fatigued and jet lagged.

I also think part of the reason is simply to have RAW/SD invade NXT over the coming weeks and is simply a ratings ply for NXT Vs AEW. It all just happened to fall into place nicely. Vince still signed off the show, so the pessimist in me, despite the police escorts and what not, think this was already planned, perhaps some of it just brought forward a week.

It's become a pretty standard annual affair in the build up for survivor series for one show to raid the other in an 'epic' beatdown.


----------



## elbows (Nov 3, 2019)

Yeah they would have done the NXT stuff in some form at some point. And the Lesnar 'quitting Smackdown' thing was also planned before, but was originally going to be done at a different time, to promote their new backstage show on US telly.

Vince leaving Saudi seems to have gone down about as well as a captain deserting a sinking ship with some wrestlers. Understandable.


----------



## elbows (Nov 4, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> NB: Won't comment on the endless rumours about technical difficulties and diplomatic crises other than to say that it would be, err, unusual, even for some entitled little princling to decide to kidnap a plane load of American celebrities who are in your islamic themepark for PR reasons, knowing that they work for two of the Orange Shit Gibbon's closest friends



If it had dragged on for much longer then I might agree, but what probably happened seems entirely consistent with billionaire high-stakes business, low personal consequences dick waving bullshit scumfuckery that I would have no trouble attributing to the Saudi crown prince or Vince.

Anyway I havent watched Smackdown but I did hear that it was good. So for once when I mention WWE being a disaster zone, I'm not refering to their product on tv. Rather the atmosphere no doubt created behind the scenes by this hideous bullshit with Saudi Arabia.


----------



## bromley (Nov 7, 2019)

I thought the NXT invasion was a clusterfuck! 

But remember they couldn't book a WCW invasion as it had no stars like future hall of famers DDP or Booker T and WCW didn't book a massive drawing WWF invasion with only Scott Hall and Kevin Nash joining.


----------



## Duckula 3:16 (Nov 13, 2019)

when raw is in the uk, why is it never shown live on sky sports it always starts at the same time as always 1am.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 13, 2019)

Down to the contract and leaks I guess, which probably didn’t take into account things like twitter at the time of the last deal. 

BT Sport deal might be different. But probably not. Guess we’ll find out in April is it?

Also I guess everyone knows punk is is now part of the WWE Backstage show on fs1.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 14, 2019)

The initial invasion of SD was fantastic as I've previously stated, but since then... 

Why the fuck couldn't Walter beat Rollins clean? Rollins is dog shit right now, who gives a fuck if he loses? Apparently, not only did they take advantage of a taped show to sweeten the audio as per, they even spliced in footage of Rollins being cheered from a previous show!  

Did chuckle that in these Brexity times that an Austrian, two Germans and an Italian came out to defend the honour of old Blighty


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 20, 2019)

I enjoyed Raw this evo - didn't fall asleep once! This invasion shit though is getting tiresome though - I get Tripers is bascially saying "Why the fuck are you watching this shit, Wednesday nights are awesome!" but I'll be glad when SS is over. Samoa Joe is on commentary now, which I'm very pleased with. I don't know how much ringtime he has left, but I hope they remember his performance tonite


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2019)

Just makes me glad I stopped watching WWE, seeing them burn through another major angle in a few weeks with little care is something I had quite enough of already, dont need to see 2019's version.

I am reminded that there was no twitter last time there was a proper 'wrestling war', and so we are treated to a whole new dimension of ugly bun fights now.

Randy Orton Responds To Tony Khan With "Jacksonville Dixie" Diss, WWE And AEW Stars Join The Drama - Wrestling Inc.

I'm a little biased since I consider Randy Orton to be a terrible human being who has been unfairly protected from scrutiny over things he allegedly did with his penis backstage.


----------



## bromley (Nov 20, 2019)

The only survivor series i ever liked was the tournament in '98. With the brand split (NXT excluded) being done so poorly it means nothing. Likewise the champions v champions matches don't mean anything when they should be massive deals.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2019)

bromley said:


> The only survivor series i ever liked was the tournament in '98. With the brand split (NXT excluded) being done so poorly it means nothing. Likewise the champions v champions matches don't mean anything when they should be massive deals.



Yeah, most of the reason I moan about shit booking is that when its sustained for as long as WWE have been doing it, people learn not to care about anything - championships, champions, storylines, match stipulations, and certainly the fucking brands. Especially when last year they had a survivors series storyline where Smackdown lost all (or almost all, I forget) their matches which was supposed to lead to something, but then they just dropped that bigger storyline completely, making the whole thing inconsequential.


----------



## bromley (Nov 20, 2019)

I noticed the WWE title is now blue.  

They could do a points thing, where the winning brand (bringing in NXT fucks this up somewhat) gets the 30th spot on the royal rumble. This would then leads to a match on the December ppv with the what the fuck do we do with these people to start the 'mania build up. I literally just made this up just now with hardly any thought, so they could surely come up with something decent.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2019)

People within WWE probably come up with good ideas all the time, but even when Vince greenlights these things, he changes things a few weeks later and all the logic drains out of the storylines as a result.

No wrestling company should consistently undermine their own gimmicks, but they do. Either through overuse or dropping things. There are so many examples. Take for example cage matches, which traditionally would feature a buildup involving interference and run-ins. Which builds to the big cage match where nobody can interfere. WWE have done this backwards so many times that this simple gimmick is spoilt. Wrestling isnt complicated, but WWE have thrown away all the basics and now exist and thrive only due to their existing corporate weight and entrenched status.


----------



## elbows (Nov 20, 2019)

Whats NXT UK like? I've still never seen it!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 21, 2019)

The Jim Cornette Experience this friday should be, err, _interesting_...


----------



## elbows (Nov 21, 2019)

I like Cornette as a performer but I try hard to avoid his views on modern wrestling. There is much of value from the eras these people are stuck in, but their views on the modern stuff are often laughable and narrow, and sometimes said for attention.


----------



## elbows (Nov 21, 2019)

Oh, I had not seen the story which you were no doubt referring to, and made completely the wrong assumption. Reading up on it now.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 21, 2019)

So NXT best AEW in the ratings war this week!

I got NXT UK takeover tickets for January. Mainly because the mrs loves Blackpool and I fucking hate it so it was the only way she was going to get me there anytime soon.
Slightly pissed at ticketmaster as I had row c ringside tickets and the bloody thing timed out. Now we’re in row q.


----------



## bromley (Nov 22, 2019)

cybershot said:


> So NXT best AEW in the ratings war this week!
> 
> I got NXT UK takeover tickets for January. Mainly because the mrs loves Blackpool and I fucking hate it so it was the only way she was going to get me there anytime soon.
> Slightly pissed at ticketmaster as I had row c ringside tickets and the bloody thing timed out. Now we’re in row q.


How can you not love Blackpool?! 

I like hearing Cornette, and saw him in London, but his views on the industry are very dated. He still seems bitter that the business was exposed.


----------



## elbows (Nov 25, 2019)

cybershot said:


> So NXT best AEW in the ratings war this week!



But look at what they had to do to get that rating, how can they sustain that without destroying what NXT was? The margin of victory was also not that great, and AEW still beat them in a key demographic for advertising (18-49).

Oh well, the only aspect of the ratings war I care about is that both do well enough to carry on. 

I've watched about half of TakeOver and the first hour of Survivor Series so far. What I saw of TakeOver was great, what I saw of Survivor Series was also great but it didnt take long at all before some shitty booking started to piss me off on that show. Maybe some more thoughts once I've watched the rest of both shows.

For match quality I dont think AEW have beaten NXT much yet, quite the opposite, but in terms of enjoyment watching the show, and things not annoying me, AEW is the clear winner for me. WWE has such a great roster though, I wish I could trust them to use it better. Some exceptional wrestling talent in the womens division, compelling!


----------



## elbows (Nov 25, 2019)

Also, my heart sank when Ranallo wasnt on Survivor Series, I think his mental health issues have flared up again recently so I dont buy the blown voice excuse. Apparently Graves was being a shit about it on social media, fuck him.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 25, 2019)

Well I really enjoyed survivor series. Thought it was the best PPV in yonks even it was purely booked from a standpoint of getting NXT over and to get more people watching NXT. But it was done well. Really really well in my opinion.


----------



## elbows (Nov 25, 2019)

Glad you enjoyed it, I need to finish watching TakeOver before resuming Survivor Series.

My booking complaint was mostly in regards the 3 way womens survivor series match, because thats one of the only matches I've seen from the show. I didnt like the stuff they did to remove 2 competitors from the NXT team due to 'injury' because it seemed to mess up the crowd reactions for a while, and then again later when they came back out. But I was already too tired by that stage and had just been watching TakeOver prior to that match, so maybe I was just overloaded.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 28, 2019)

Gotta feel that if NXT beats AEW this week in the US ratings, that's the way it's staying. AEW's potential gain is mostly people who already watch both but will be persuaded to watch their show live due to their stellar card and then NXT later on catchup/network. NXT's potential gain is the two million+ people who currently watch Raw or Smackdown who now know there is a vastly superior WWE brand, widely available on US TV.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 29, 2019)

Haven't watched any TV shows for 3 weeks, just too busy with work and got other shit going on, but AEW this week sounded it's weakest yet. They are also really letting themselves down with the womens division which just seems to be a total afterthought.


----------



## elbows (Dec 2, 2019)

I'd still rather watch AEW than any other show (except TakeOvers).

But yeah, I dont watch it and think 'a wrestling genius is booking this', it mstly comes across as wrestlers being heavily invested in and largely in control of their own programmes. Which is still fine at the moment but makes me more concerned for the longer term. I will be interested to see how they handle changing the roster a bit over time, freshening things up at some point. Because with such a small talent pool currently, they are going to need to do that at some point. At current rate I will still really love the show for a few more months, and then there is a risk that I might get bored.

I dont think the womens division is an afterthought, but it does not have the talent in it to put on the sort of matches we get in NXT. And they clearly want to build up Britt Baker, but she is really quite green at the moment so the match quality isnt amazing. 

Possibly the biggest mistake they made so far is that I didnt see much effort put into introducing everyone and developing their characters for the 'brand new viewers tuning in for the first time once they got a tv deal', everything seemed to assume people had already watched previous PPVs or being the elite or other stuff not on the main weekly tv program. But I dont know if this is a big mistake or not really, because its hard to ascertain how much potential there really is from 'casual fans' these days.

As for ratings of AEW v NXT, they were delayed for this last week due to thanksgiving. I think WWE did as much as they were ever going to do to get NXT over with their audience, but whether any advantage from that will stick for a while rather than quickly fading, I would not like to predict. Ratings can be a bit weird and are easily influenced by other things on telly that night, so I dont think I will make any predictions about the ratings patterns staying the same.


----------



## YouSir (Dec 2, 2019)

elbows said:


> I'd still rather watch AEW than any other show (except TakeOvers).
> 
> But yeah, I dont watch it and think 'a wrestling genius is booking this', it mstly comes across as wrestlers being heavily invested in and largely in control of their own programmes. Which is still fine at the moment but makes me more concerned for the longer term. I will be interested to see how they handle changing the roster a bit over time, freshening things up at some point. Because with such a small talent pool currently, they are going to need to do that at some point. At current rate I will still really love the show for a few more months, and then there is a risk that I might get bored.
> 
> ...



Think AEW's Womens' Division is run by Kenny Omega, or at least he's had a lot of say in it. How that effects anything I don't know. They are still hiring people though and tbh I don't think the pool of talent is all that bad, just left the stories as an afterthought, as you say.

Only started watching again for the first time in years with AEW - enjoying the ride so far but will admit it was Jericho that drew me in. Agree they left people in the dark a bit over the Indy type guys and who they actually were but still think there's been enough to draw me along. The way Omega, Darby Allin, (THE BASTARD) PAC, MJF etc have been used has given me enough to invest. Less so with others mind.


----------



## elbows (Dec 2, 2019)

Anything I say at this stage is just nitpicking anyway, all I want is to be able to look forward to the show every week, and so far I do


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Dec 5, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Gotta feel that if NXT beats AEW this week in the US ratings, that's the way it's staying. AEW's potential gain is mostly people who already watch both but will be persuaded to watch their show live due to their stellar card and then NXT later on catchup/network. NXT's potential gain is the two million+ people who currently watch Raw or Smackdown who now know there is a vastly superior WWE brand, widely available on US TV.



NXT: 810K, AEW: 663K. Lot of youtubers and podcasters that I subscribe to think that the big drop in viewership is due to Thanksgiving in the US (quite reasonable) but that this only affected AEW (erm). We'll find out for sure on Thursday I guess, but I'm pretty confident


----------



## elbows (Dec 5, 2019)

Thanksgiving does mean that weeks rating cannot be taken too seriously on its own, but even so AEW were rattled by the ratings decline for sure, this was clear from the commentary and contents of the show last night.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 5, 2019)

Both last nights shows sounded good, wether I'll get round to watching the at the moment is another story.


----------



## elbows (Dec 6, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> NXT: 810K, AEW: 663K. Lot of youtubers and podcasters that I subscribe to think that the big drop in viewership is due to Thanksgiving in the US (quite reasonable) but that this only affected AEW (erm). We'll find out for sure on Thursday I guess, but I'm pretty confident



Well it turns out your confidence was misplaced on that one.

It looks like a better claim would be that what WWE did in recent times has helped NXT to be competitive against AEW, and this effect continues. But it does not mean NXT will win every week.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 6, 2019)

I think they will steadily stay at those figures now, trading places on who wins until someone does something out the blue, which I guess AEW is in the better posistion for as a WWE wrestler and AEW probably has more to gain by someone jumping ship than WWE does. 

I hope we see Luke Harper in AEW soon and they unleash him as the total bad ass he is, and not only that, the guy is a fucking excellent worker.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 8, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I hope we see Luke Harper in AEW soon and they unleash him as the total bad ass he is, and not only that, the guy is a fucking excellent worker.



And just like that, he's been allowed his release along with sin cara. Assume it will have some 90 day no compete clause in it or something, but word was they were only willing to let performers go who they felt wouldn't make any sort of useful impact even if they did go to AEW. Think they may have got that wrong with Harper.


----------



## elbows (Dec 9, 2019)

Yeah, March 8th is when their no-compete ends.

Even long before AEW they had become reticent to release people. There are always exceptions though, and if you make the right sort of nuisance of yourself, including publicly asking for release, you might get it eventually. Certainly helps if you are over a certain age and not a main eventer in WWE. Harper (who will probably be Brodie Lee away from WWE) publicly asked for his release in April, so its taken some time to get it. Maybe the Saudi thing helped him, they dont want anyone contradicting the official word on that.


----------



## elbows (Dec 18, 2019)

I dont actually have the energy right now to do a proper head injury/concussion rant. But since I've almost certainly done such rants in the past you can probably imagine what my thoughts are after I heard about/watched bits of the TLC match where Kairi Sane got powerbombed through a table despite clearly being hurt and not even going up for the move properly. Its such bullshit, especially when we are used to seeing refs checking on wrestlers after almost every innocuous bump they take. I assume it must have been a cluster of failures by more than one person that caused this, but its just not on. I stopped watching New Japan in part because I dont want to see wrestlers killing themselves, and now I've had to hear about this and see several AEW stars fall on their heads on the ramp in recent times. Boo.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 19, 2019)

Yeah TLC just seems a bit 90s now. The PPV itself needs to die and the match used for special occasions only. It's it's 20th year anniversary at SummerSlam this year so seems the perfect time to not only celebrate it, but to also put it to bed.

Pleased for Rhea Ripley, need to try and watch that, at some point this week.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Dec 29, 2019)

I see notorious homophobe (and racist and misogynist) Lars Sullivan has been a busy boy


----------



## Ax^ (Dec 29, 2019)

Guessing a release from WWE is coming shortly

seriously he should of just admit this stuff when his past comments came up


----------



## cybershot (Jan 1, 2020)

NXT and NXT UK also going to be BT Sport so no need for that Wwe network sub (maybe) if you’ve already got bt sport?

WWE NXT And NXT UK Programming Announced For BT Sport - Wrestling Inc.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 1, 2020)

I looked at a sub y'day, but £25 a month to watch Raw and Smackdown (not having any interest in anything else they carry, 'cept maybe MMA), ON TOP of £10 for the network (still needed for Takeovers and PPVs) Err, no. I'll miss my boy Baron Corbin sure, but I'll do without. I can keep up via podcasts/YT, and get my Tuesday afternoons back.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 1, 2020)

A little known trick. If you have VPN software and have an option to have an IP address from Sweden then go to Wwe YouTube and low and behold. Full episodes of raw and Smackdown. Usually go up about 24 hours after air time.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 12, 2020)

In Blackpool for NXT UK takeover II.
Not watched any NXT UK for a couple of months so no clue what the backstories are going into the event. 😂

hopefully it will be fun. Off into Blackpool to go wrestler spotting.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 12, 2020)

Well that was a whole lot of fun from start to finish topped off nicely by the undisputed era run in. They hung around for a while after. Was pretty cool seeing Cole in the flesh up close.


----------



## elbows (Jan 13, 2020)

Cool, glad you had fun


----------



## cybershot (Jan 21, 2020)

Good news for the kids whose parents couldn’t afford sports packages.









						WWE and Channel 5 announce free-to-air broadcast agreement in the UK
					

WWE issued the following:  LONDON and STAMFORD, Conn., January 21, 2020 –WWE (NYSE: WWE) today announced a new partnership with ViacomCBS’s Channel 5 to




					wrestlingnews.co


----------



## i_hate_beckham (Jan 27, 2020)

Women's Royal Rumble time! Anyone else watching?


----------



## elbows (Jan 27, 2020)

Yes, although I doubt I will stay up for the entire Rumble show, this is one of the few WWE big shows I can still be arsed to watch some years.


----------



## bromley (Jan 28, 2020)

Men's rumble was great, women's meh.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 28, 2020)

Agreed. RAW was actually pretty decent too.


----------



## elbows (Jan 28, 2020)

I enjoyed the show but mostly by only half paying attention when watching it. There was nothing on it that made me want to start watching WWE again so its back to AEW only for me, with perhaps the occasional takeover and new japan show.


----------



## bromley (Jan 29, 2020)

I follow NXT and AEW weekly, kind of glad that Raw and Smackdown have moved to BT. Used to be on in the background whilst I was doing something on my PC or watched in fast forward. An hour highlight show on channel 5 should be easier viewing!


----------



## elbows (Jan 29, 2020)

Does anyone watch NXT UK? I've never really bothered, but I did watch a fair chunk of Worlds Collide the other day and it was entertaining, albeit in a 'fun house show matches' sort of way.


----------



## elbows (Jan 29, 2020)

bromley said:


> I follow NXT and AEW weekly, kind of glad that Raw and Smackdown have moved to BT.



I was getting a silly kick out of the BT Sports football commentators having to plug the Royal Rumble last week.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 29, 2020)

elbows said:


> Does anyone watch NXT UK? I've never really bothered, but I did watch a fair chunk of Worlds Collide the other day and it was entertaining, albeit in a 'fun house show matches' sort of way.



I stopped.Half the problem is too much is taped weeks ahead. There’s too many squash matches and not enough storylines. Someone gets injured between tapings and suddenly you’re just left wondering what happened to them.

the big takeover shows they have done however do have great wrestling but you can get away not watching the weekly show as they will recap before the match anyway. However should you want too it’s now on free to air. Paramount channel midnight Wednesdays.


----------



## elbows (Feb 11, 2020)

I've concluded that 95% of the time, AEW really is all I need. Things to fill the other 5% with very much include the recent New Japan Moxley vs Suzuki match, which I must get round to watching sometime this week.

I am glad that AEW abandoned the 'nightmare collective' stuff, or at least a big chunk of it involving Brandi Rhodes. It had been a failure from the start, and it only got worse when they did things like add Dr Luther. I was a massive Awesome Kong fan during the peak of her in-ring career, but that was a long time ago now, and I think her body is past the point of being able to do proper matches. Apparently thats part of the reason it all went wrong, Rhodes was supposed to be her manager but when it was clear Kong couldnt do all the ring work, they started adding more people.

If they can maintain this sort of hit to miss ratio, I wont have much to complain about in the years ahead


----------



## cybershot (Feb 12, 2020)

AEW Planning To Make UK Debut This Year With "Mini-Tour"
					

AEW officials have discussed a possible "mini-tour" of the UK for 2020, and it looks like the overseas debut in Europe is planned for later…




					www.wrestlinginc.com


----------



## bromley (Feb 16, 2020)

elbows said:


> I was a massive Awesome Kong fan during the peak of her in-ring career, but that was a long time ago now, and I think her body is past the point of being able to do proper matches. Apparently thats part of the reason it all went wrong, Rhodes was supposed to be her manager but when it was clear Kong couldnt do all the ring work, they started adding more people.


It's interesting how much a role TNA played in women's wrestling in North America, despite Stephanie trying to claim the credit!


----------



## elbows (Feb 16, 2020)

bromley said:


> It's interesting how much a role TNA played in women's wrestling in North America, despite Stephanie trying to claim the credit!



Yeah, the Gail Kim vs Kong feud was special. Mind you, TNA had some of the worst womens matches of modern times as well. Jenna Morasca vs Sharmell won worst match of the year in the 2009 Wrestling Observer awards. And Shelley Martinez vs Rebel did the same in 2016.

WWE & Steph trying to take credit was not surprising. But it also made me sad because I actually rated the work of a whole bunch of women in WWE in the 2000's, when they had no chance of rising to their full potential due to the booking and match layout and generally seedy 'attitude era' shit.


----------



## bromley (Feb 28, 2020)

Supershow down!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Feb 28, 2020)

Awesome!!


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 28, 2020)

bromley said:


> Supershow down!



Vince "Whats the  hottest property we have at the moment"

"Fuck it GOOOOOOOOLLLBREEGG!!!"


----------



## cybershot (Feb 28, 2020)

Old codgers are us. Fuck me. I'm glad I cancelled my sub again after the two NXT events. Feel sorry for my mate whose got to watch all this shower of shit at WrestleMania.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 1, 2020)

Is it me or is the biggest problem in wrestling at the moment the booking of main events. Jericho vs mox was boring as hell in my opinion. A card that throughout was pretty good but fell flat after the tag team titles match which easily stole the show.


----------



## elbows (Mar 1, 2020)

I havent watched the 2nd half of the AEW show yet (I was too tired after the tag team match) so I cant really comment on that yet. I will.

In my opinion the biggest problem in wrestling has been that Vince is 20 years or so out of touch. Unfortunately in the weeks and months ahead there is likely to be a more dramatic problem, empty arena shows suck!


----------



## bromley (Mar 2, 2020)

I like how WWE is now using old past it WCW stars! 

The first episode of ruthless aggression was an hilarious rewrite of history. Best bit is how they shook things up by changing the name of the company to WWE. Also I like how the impossible to fail invasion angle failed due to a lack of star power. The biggest WCW star they had was DDP, who gave up a year of WCW salary to get involved in the angle (the only one I believe who did) and ended up in the stalker angle and getting squashed by undertaker and later pinned by his wife. They forgot to mention that but then without any self awareness went into the stars they made in OVW!   The booked the NXTUS invasion stronger than WCW who themselves booked an invasion angle which became the NWO with only Hall and Nash!

I watch the one hour smackdown and raw highlight shows on channel 5 and wonder what's not making the cut!?


----------



## elbows (Mar 2, 2020)

Even their rewriting of history has gone past the point of interest to me. They still want to toe the party line like its 1999.

The only interesting storyline WWE has to offer me is the real life one of Vince losing it, and belatedly losing his reputation with shareholders etc too. Sacking those corporate bigwigs recently, with no proper explanation and no plan, and dropping all their corporate 'the WWE network is the future of our growth etc' stuff has really spooked the shareholders.

Right now I am just glad that I have a huge backlog of NXT, NXT UK, NJPW and AEW Dark shows to watch, because I think the wrestling business is about to be hideously disrupted by the pandemic.


----------



## i_hate_beckham (Mar 6, 2020)

Pretty cool story on the BBC News page about a woman who sang Jericho's entrance at AEW Revolution:

'My dead brother would be proud I helped his hero'


----------



## elbows (Mar 7, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Is it me or is the biggest problem in wrestling at the moment the booking of main events. Jericho vs mox was boring as hell in my opinion. A card that throughout was pretty good but fell flat after the tag team titles match which easily stole the show.



OK I've now watched everything except Jericho vs Mox so I will get back to you on that bit shortly.

In terms of the card for that show and how it panned out, yeah there is always a downside to having an amazing match that steals the show happen well before the actual main event slot. I thought the show did recover from that to enough of an extent that my enjoyment of the rest of the card was not overshadowed too badly, I didnt mind, and a match like PAC vs Orange Cassidy was wildly entertaining to me.


----------



## bromley (Mar 9, 2020)

I semi watched it over the weekend.

It's was good booking to have Pac vs Orange Cassidy after the tag match which will be a match of the year candidate. I'm not sure if Jericho can still go and I've never been a fan of Moxley, I just don't get him. 

MJF V Cody was good and has been a great feud. 

Pac in a stable with The Lucha Brothers could be interesting. I'm a big fan of all 3. Also love Orange Cassidy's work! Such an original gimmick, "from whatver, weighing, whatever."

Their women's division is pretty terrible.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 17, 2020)

Wrestlemania to take place at the PC without a crowd


----------



## bromley (Mar 18, 2020)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Wrestlemania to take place at the PC without a crowd


If Drew is booked to go over that's his wrestlemania moment ruined.


----------



## bromley (Mar 18, 2020)

In better news Prickomania (first Raw after mania) shouldn't be tragic.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 23, 2020)

No time like the present to watch a shit ton of old good wrestling for free right?









						WWE offers free access to WWE Network, including every past WrestleMania
					

WWE has unlocked a vast portion of the WWE Network library, including every WrestleMania in history, countless pay-per-view spectaculars and more, for a limited time.




					www.wwe.com


----------



## bromley (Mar 26, 2020)

There are some good documentaries on the network. I'm now going through 96 Nitros, before the merger started the show was pretty simple and straightforward.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 26, 2020)

19th anniversary of the last episode of Nitro today.


----------



## bromley (Apr 6, 2020)

cybershot said:


> 19th anniversary of the last episode of Nitro today.


The day wrestling died.

They should have postponed Wrestlemania.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 6, 2020)

I've enjoyed WM way more than I thought. The matches have been mostly good quality, to the point where I often forgot about the absent crowd. Boneyard match was great, and is clearly gonna be how the Undertaker continues working from now on. First British champion ever, even made the BBC News frontpage!


----------



## cybershot (Apr 7, 2020)

Yes I was surprised how much I enjoted Mania, overall it was pretty good quality. The Firefly fun house match was also good fun. Loved the 'This is such good shit' Vince McMahon puppet moment taking the piss out of Vince from when Moxley was on Jericho's podcast!

Put Pritchard and Wyatt in charge of booking every match, and fair play to Cena for allowing (possibly even suggested by the sounds of it) some of the self ribbing, which was funny.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 15, 2020)

So, the day after Linda McMahon gave the orange shitgibbon $15m and wrestling was mysteriously declared an essential industry in Florida, WWE are in the process of firing dozens of people to cut costs


----------



## cybershot (Apr 16, 2020)

Nine Bob Note said:


> So, the day after Linda McMahon gave the orange shitgibbon $15m and wrestling was mysteriously declared an essential industry in Florida, WWE are in the process of firing dozens of people to cut costs



This was a disgrace. Proper corporate shareholders bottom line bullshit putting profits over people. Never getting a penny from me again. Literally earlier in the day they boasted about having $500m in reserves, then do this. Did they even ask the likes of Brock, Reigns to take a wage cut first? Bet they didn't. Maverick's tweet was heartbreaking. And the utter kick in the balls to people like him, they just put one of their main belts on a guy who took the piss out of poor people, namly indie wrestlers, who couldn't feed themselves during this. Marvelous.


----------



## bromley (Apr 17, 2020)

Nine Bob Note said:


> So, the day after Linda McMahon gave the orange shitgibbon $15m and wrestling was mysteriously declared an essential industry in Florida, WWE are in the process of firing dozens of people to cut costs


Didn't know that happened! Vince has been hired as an advisor...

So many people released horrible day which was then followed by the death of The Fink.


----------



## bromley (Apr 17, 2020)

cybershot said:


> of


Braun?


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 17, 2020)

bromley said:


> So many people released horrible day which was then followed by the death of The Fink.



Only just seen this, sad news.


----------



## elbows (Apr 17, 2020)

McMahon being absolute scum has really helped me with my mission to never watch WWE again. That and hating the empty arena stuff, too much grunting, its worse than watching an Iron Mike Sharpe match!

RIP The Fink.


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 17, 2020)

elbows said:


> McMahon being absolute scum has really helped me with my mission to never watch WWE again. That and hating the empty arena stuff, too much grunting, its worse than watching an Iron Mike Sharpe match!
> 
> RIP The Fink.



I've being watching AEW(can't watch WWE these days) and the empty arena thing isn't too bad. They have a few other wrestlers dotted round ringside to mimic having a crowd i.e cheering and such.


----------



## elbows (Apr 17, 2020)

Yeah, I had moved onto mostly watching AEW only since they started up. I've got a big backlog though, I'm 5 or 6 shows behind, think I still have one more to watch that has a full audience.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 17, 2020)

bromley said:


> Braun?


Yes


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 17, 2020)

elbows said:


> Yeah, I had moved onto mostly watching AEW only since they started up. I've got a big backlog though, I'm 5 or 6 shows behind, think I still have one more to watch that has a full audience.



somet for a sleepless night I guess, or a day when you're stuck in doors(lol).


----------



## cyril_smear (Apr 17, 2020)

what the fuck is this Matt Hardy gimmick? LOL little baby Jesus is crying.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 17, 2020)

WWE the cheeky fuckers had the cheek to release a customised Rock championship belt (that was never seen on air) that costs £439 the same week they make a ton of their staff jobless. Disgusting.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 17, 2020)

They also did this.









						WWE Pays Stock Dividend That Could Fund Laid Off Workers to 2021
					

After releasing at least 38 wrestlers and backstage talent Wednesday, WWE announced it will pay $9.4 milllion to investors in June.



					bleedingcool.com
				






> WWE's stock dividend paid to all shareholders of both Class A and Class B stock is $.12 per share, according to the press release, which says the company's "Board of Directors today declared the Company's regular quarterly dividend of $0.12 per share for all Class A and B shares of common stock." The record date for the dividend will be June 15, 2020 and the payment date will be June 25, 2020. Class B WWE stock is a special version of the stock reserved for the McMahon family only which includes ten times the voting power as Class A stock. Class B stock is automatically converted to Class A stock when sold by a McMahon. The last WWE filing available on their website that lists the total number of shares was made in 2019, and listed 43,739,412 shares of Class A common stock and 34,303,438 shares of Class B common stock outstanding. Vince McMahon himself, after selling 3.2 million shares of Class B stock to fund the XFL in 2019, retained 28.7 million shares of Class B stock and 80 thousand shares of Class A stock.
> 
> So what does that mean? It means that WWE paid out 12 cents per share in dividend to the owners of roughly 78 million shares. That's a grand total of about $9.4 million paid out to shareholders. Vince McMahon himself would be entitled to roughly $3.5 million of that based on his last known share total. The $3.5 million paid to Vince McMahon alone could have funded the laid off staff at Meltzer's rate for over five months. The total dividend amount could have paid them until April of 2021.



I don't know the legalities of how much of a 'choice' they had


----------



## cybershot (Apr 19, 2020)

Thought some of these were quite funny






						#AddAWrestlerRuinATVshow - Twitter Search
					

On Apr 19 @TomCampbell tweeted: "Have we had Hogan's Run? #AddAWrestlerRu.." - read what others are saying and join the conversation.




					twitter.com


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 24, 2020)

It's not recent or topical, but I love these two so much...


----------



## elbows (May 24, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Thought some of these were quite funny
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I only just got round to looking at them and yeah I quite liked quite a lot of them, thanks for the tip


----------



## elbows (May 24, 2020)




----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 24, 2020)

I'd watch Doctor Wooooooooo


(probably I Dream of Mean Geanie  too  just  to see what it  turns out like)


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 24, 2020)

I was so taken by Doctor Whoooo  I made a video..

I will upload it in a tick


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 24, 2020)




----------



## cyril_smear (May 26, 2020)

Shippou-Sensei said:


>






styling and profiling, fat boy


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 19, 2020)

I'd report the wrestling news, but nothing at all happened today...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 20, 2020)

So... That Velveteen Dream, eh


----------



## cybershot (Jun 22, 2020)

Undertaker properly retired? Time will tell I guess.


----------



## binka (Jun 28, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Undertaker properly retired? Time will tell I guess.


No chance I reckon - the whole 5 episodes of Last Ride were him wanting a final match then if it was shit him saying he can't go out on that one and if it was good him saying he thinks he's got more in him. 

He seems to think he's great mates with McMahon but McMahon doesn't seem to give a shit about him really otherwise he would have told him it was time years ago. Undertaker will definitely be at one or more of those joke Saudi shows, and probably at next year's Wrestlemania for a rematch with AJ Styles.


----------



## Casual Observer (Aug 17, 2020)

For all you 1970s Saturday afternoon ITV World of Sport grapple fans, it is with a heavy heart that I post that Mark "Rollerball" Rocco sadly died on 30 July. Not sure of the precise cause of death but he'd been battling dementia in recent years. He was 69.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 3, 2020)

Been a bit of a week!

Pat Patterson has passed away if anyone wasn't aware. I really did like Pat. He seemed one of the best minds in the business.

Sting has showed up in AEW. Omega has won the title, with help of Impact exec Don Callis and apparently is taking the belt to Impact on Tuesday night, so looks like some sort of AEW/Impact cross over program about to happen.


----------



## cyril_smear (Dec 3, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Been a bit of a week!
> 
> Pat Patterson has passed away if anyone wasn't aware. I really did like Pat. He seemed one of the best minds in the business.
> 
> Sting has showed up in AEW. Omega has won the title, with help of Impact exec Don Callis and apparently is taking the belt to Impact on Tuesday night, so looks like some sort of AEW/Impact cross over program about to happen.



Pat Patterson died?


----------



## cybershot (Dec 4, 2020)

cyril_smear said:


> Pat Patterson died?



Sadly yes.









						Pat Patterson, first openly gay professional wrestler, dies aged 79
					

Tributes are paid to the "trailblazer" and WWE Hall of Fame member whose career spanned six decades.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cybershot (Dec 27, 2020)

Hearing of Jon Huber’s (aka Brodie Lee, Luke Harper) death this morning has shocked me a little more than I would have expected. Possibly because he is practically the same age as me, far fitter and by the sound of things had a lung condition which I also have but the details at this stage are obviously not fully detailed.

apparently he’d been off AEW TV since late October with the illness, I didn’t really see any of his AEW run as wrestling with no crowds has been a bit of a turn off for me and I’ve watched practically no wrestling this year. I always felt he was a great worker and could have great singles matches when wwe did give him those few and far between opportunities.

sounds like he was another one of those great locker room and family guys with plenty posting pictures and stories on social media. Bray wyatt sounds devasted. 

Thoughts with his family


----------



## elbows (Dec 27, 2020)

Oh shit, I hadnt heard about that. The absolute worst thing about being a wrestling fan is the number of premature deaths in the industry. I'm 45 and the list of those who died before reaching my current age is immense and hideous. In the last decade the number fo deaths has fallen far below its highest rate, but partly this is because there was hardly anyone left to die from a bad 'party hard, hard chairshots' era or several excessive steroid eras. And I do worry that although the lifestyles of the latest generation of wrestlers are often quite different to those from the hard partying days, there is still all sorts of stuff going on in the ring that probably has health implications for performers in the decades ahead


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 27, 2020)

I've mostly dropped out of following wrestling in the past few weeks, had no idea he'd even been off screen.

Really did seem like he was a much loved guy backstage, and 41 is just rough 


elbows said:


> And I do worry that although the lifestyles of the latest generation of wrestlers are often quite different to those from the hard partying days, there is still all sorts of stuff going on in the ring that probably has health implications for performers in the decades ahead


Aye, while it's unquestionably better outside of the ring and, to some extent, inside the ring, some of the stuff they throw themselves into is very concerning.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 6, 2021)

A giant leap for Mankind:


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 7, 2021)

A company run by both Trump's former business secretary and largest donor, and a man who is arguably one of his oldest and best friends? I'd recommend Foley seek vague employment elsewhere, but Khan, Rhodes, Jericho, the Bucks etc are all hardcore Trumpers too. It's a shit business, so I've been told...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 7, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Khan, Rhodes, Jericho, the Bucks etc are all hardcore Trumpers too.


Jericho I knew, but hadn't realised Rhodes and the Bucks were too. Khan, meh, don't really care and he's a billionaire, so not really surprised either.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 7, 2021)

All born-agains. Well, the Khans might not be, but there's money at stake for them.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 10, 2021)

has Jack swagger ever been worth watching? Nothing about him(except his wrestling) screams out wrestler, IMO. Jobber to the stars at best in wrestling glory days, IMO.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 24, 2021)

I’m not keen on the brody child angle.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 25, 2021)

Not quite how this will work for international markets but looks like WWE are pretty uch giving up on doing WWE Network in house. Makes you wonder how that will effect what is already a pretty crappy app expierence for international subs. Not that I sub to it, although the 'live' stream is on my IPTV sub, and I am currently watching the 1991 Royal Rumble!!









						NBCU’s Peacock Pins WWE Network Exclusive U.S. Streaming Rights
					

NBCUniversal’s Peacock soon will be the only place to watch WWE Network in the U.S. WWE and NBCU reached a multiyear agreement giving Peacock exclusive streaming rights to WWE Network for Ame…




					variety.com


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 25, 2021)

Fucking hell, I know it's not the point but "Premium" still runs ads, and "Premium Plus" gets you no ads (for twice the price). Next tier is "Premium Plus Extra", no doubt.

Interesting they're going with a specific network's platform; curious how the networks that carry their broadcast programming, i.e. USA and Fox (I think?), feel about this. Although I feel like I heard somewhere that those deals might be ending/changing or something.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 25, 2021)

Raw and smack down don’t tend to end up on the network for about a month after it’s aired anyway. I guess so it can be accessed on USA and fox own on demand catch up service.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 25, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Raw and smack down don’t tend to end up on the network for about a month after it’s aired anyway. I guess so it can be accessed on USA and fox own on demand catch up service.


Aye, but it's still driving viewers to a competitor's service, and beyond the fact that competitor will be getting the revenue from that they will likely also get some knock-on effect as viewers check out other NBCU programmes on Peacock Premium Plus Extra Gold Beyond.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 27, 2021)

Rushed home from work on Monday with a pizza to watch the Royal Rumble only to find out it was NEXT Monday  Haven't watched wrestling more than a handful of times over the past year, so if the Network is gonna get fucked up, it might just be the excuse I need to save myself £120 per year.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 28, 2021)

Lord Camomile said:


> Aye, but it's still driving viewers to a competitor's service, and beyond the fact that competitor will be getting the revenue from that they will likely also get some knock-on effect as viewers check out other NBCU programmes on Peacock Premium Plus Extra Gold Beyond.



intrestingly the fox wwe Twitter goes big on raw. Which I could understand if the stories continued on smackdown but obviously they don’t. Completely different roster. So perhaps the thinking is different these days. Just promote the shit out of it and the viewers will follow.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 28, 2021)

cybershot said:


> intrestingly the fox wwe Twitter goes big on raw. Which I could understand if the stories continued on smackdown but obviously they don’t. Completely different roster. So perhaps the thinking is different these days. Just promote the shit out of it and the viewers will follow.


Aye, fair point; more eyes on the product could well get more eyes on _their _part of the product. Particularly if the most recent episodes of the televised shows won't be on the new on demand service for a few weeks, so people will watch Fox and USA to find out what's going on.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 30, 2021)

There’s a bunch of free to view royal rumble main events on YouTube at the moment.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 30, 2021)

Well, I'm back to looking forward to the Rumble AGAIN. Haven't checked the Sky Odds (which are usually pretty accurate as someone always blabs) but I believe it's Bliss/Belair for the women and possibly Nakamura for the men?



Spoiler



Nope, just checked and though I'm right with the girls, Daniel Bryan is winning clearly



Whatevs, my pizza is still in the fridge, and I believe Fruit Pastilles are vegan now, so I'll bring home a bag of them too in anticipation.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jan 30, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Well, I'm back to looking forward to the Rumble AGAIN. Haven't checked the Sky Odds (which are usually pretty accurate as someone always blabs) but I believe it's Bliss/Belair for the women and possibly Nakamura for the men?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


can you actually bet on the wrestling?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 30, 2021)

I would imagine you can bet on who's next to have an affair with Phil Mitchell. Somewhat relevant as I used to fall asleep whilst watching RAW after work on a Tuesday afternoon, and be awoken four-five hours later (long after the recording had finished and my Skybox had defaulted to BBC1) by the sound of loud cockney women screaming at each other.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 31, 2021)

I stupidly agreed to go in the office tomorrow forgetting it was the Rumble tonight. Only wrestling event worth getting exciting about these days even if winners are generally predictable these days . Although I'd like to see both Alexa and Fiend win with soem ghastly horror movie type ending. Ripping off Carrie would be a stroke of genius especially for the mens. but we'll see.

Hopefully I can get out the office for lunch time.


----------



## cyril_smear (Feb 6, 2021)

Did anybody catch the rumble?


----------



## cyril_smear (Feb 16, 2021)

Dark side of the ring series 1&2 are both currently on all4.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 16, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Did anybody catch the rumble?



I did. It was ok as rumbles go.

nxt vengeance sounded surperb. I’ve been in the office mon tue so may put it on in the background tomorrow ‘while working’


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Feb 17, 2021)

Watched Takeover this evo, and it was a good show, but I struggle to care as I don't watch any weekly shows any more


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Feb 24, 2021)

Over two years later than I expected:



Came home from work on Monday and was gonna skip the show and listen to the podcast reviews, but having learnt what happened...


----------



## cybershot (Feb 24, 2021)

I’m amazed he didn’t get squashed on raw in 30 seconds on Monday. Hopefully he goes into mania with it. I assume the setup is to give drew his moment with fans in attendance.


----------



## elbows (Mar 7, 2021)

I've not watched much wrestling during the pandemic, and no WWE at all since I gave it up ages ago. But I hear the Wednesday night wars are over. NXT is moving to Tueadays on US television because some other sport is coming to Wednesdays on the channel they are on. Not officially announced yet but official within the company I believe.

The main reason they decided to go head to head with AEW was lost a long time ago anyway. They wanted to stifle and kill the opposition, and they comprehensively failed. They could not beat AEW in the key demographic that tv channels care about, and as soon as AEW signed a new TV deal  (in Jan 2020?) after just a few months of ratings success, WWE had basically failed in their main mission.

AEW is not always my cup of tea but at least when I watch it I dont feel insulted by the commentary and storyline abandonment that WWE has to offer.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 7, 2021)

Opinions on this exploding barb wire match tonight in A E dub.

seems the ‘sport’ element is out the window!


----------



## elbows (Mar 7, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Opinions on this exploding barb wire match tonight in A E dub.
> 
> seems the ‘sport’ element is out the window!



They never were marketed and promoted as a pure sport. Concepts like 'wins and losses matter' doesnt mean they have to shy away from all sorts of gimmicks and special attractions.

Wrestling companies like AEW provide more of what I want by not having every match fit the same stale formula, there is more variety on the card. So I certainly dont mind the odd wacky gimmick match. Even in the old kayfabe territory days there were stupid gimmicks, the key to using them well as a promotion is to use them sparringly, as part of feuds where it actually makes sense to do so.


----------



## elbows (Mar 8, 2021)

However what a promotion must not do is to have such a low-rent explosion at the end that the show will live in infamy and make your company a joke. And then try to salvage things by having a shit excuse and storyline about how Omega made a dud bomb.

Its not hard to find me posting about how much I hate WWE and how glad I am that alternatives like AEW exist. But I am a long way from claiming to be AEWs biggest fan. They have put on enjoyable shows on plenty of occasions, but they are far from perfect and there are plenty of misses in there. I dont feel I can give a full and fair review of all their shows so far because I missed a bunch due to mostly hating pandemic wrestling, but they havent blown me away as much as I would have hoped they might be able to so far. I think there were periods where I watched NJPW and NXT that impressed me more, although the version of NXT I used to like seems like a fairly distant memory these days.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 18, 2021)

Bischoff going into WWE Hall of Fame.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Mar 21, 2021)

Almas and Black both desperate to get out of the company. No wonder Cole, Ciampa and Gargano are clinging to that NXT ring.


----------



## elbows (Mar 22, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Almas and Black both desperate to get out of the company. No wonder Cole, Ciampa and Gargano are clinging to that NXT ring.



They have set Andrade free!


----------



## cybershot (Apr 2, 2021)

Possibly the most interesting thing about WrestleMania weekend!









						Chris Jericho Appearing on Steve Austin’s WWE Network Show
					

AEW’s Chris Jericho will make his return to the WWE Network in an interview on Steve Austin’s “Broken Skull Sessions.”




					www.si.com


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 17, 2021)

Pretty enjoyable Wrestlemania given the circumstances. Night one way better than the second; the women wrestlers shining, Reigns and Lashley looking awesome. Then, err... mass releases. Presumably this now takes the place of the tradional Raw after Mania... Pleased that the releases of my beloved Iconic Duo have pissed people off more than that of Samoa Joe. Love Joe (as was just pointed out to me - the only man to defeat Demon Balor), but I wanna see my favourite girls prosper. Guess I'm gonna be skip-searching through Dynamite for them as well as FTR from now on.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 17, 2021)

Yeah I enjoyed wrestlemania. I think the 2 night thing works better to be honest but don’t know if they are in a position to do it with dates already announced or even if they would want to. It felt less of a slog than trying to fit 6 hours into one night.

not really arsed about of the ones that got released this time round. Raw after mania was shockingly bad though.


----------



## i_hate_beckham (Apr 18, 2021)

I didn't even bother watching the Raw after Mania this year. Hopefully with his release we will see Samoa Joe wrestle again and not phone it in.


----------



## elbows (May 30, 2021)

I'm so out of touch with wrestling that I only just realised its AEW Double or Nothing tonight. I may as well take this opportunity to start watching AEW again from this point onwards.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 1, 2021)

Not keeping up either.

however the a&e series biography: wwe legends and wwe hidden treasures are great nostalgic programs to watch if your wrestling heyday was the 80s/90s. Looking forward the Bret hart finale biography this week.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2021)

Summary:
WWE have fired more wrestlers, non-ring talent, key office staff/management.

Can't help but feel if Triple H could act for shit, he'd've been politely told to look to Hollywood for future work.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 3, 2021)

More releases, and increasingly looking like Vinne Mac is planning his retirement.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 26, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> More releases, and increasingly looking like Vinne Mac is planning his retirement.


This, again.

Not sure if this is the full list, but it's what the Metro had:

Fandango
Tony Nese
Tyler Breeze
Ariya Daivari
Killian Dain
Curt Stallion
the Bollywood Boyz
Marina Shafur
August Grey
Ever-Rise duo Chase Parker and Matt Martel
Mixed feelings. While obviously first and foremost my thoughts are with the impact of people losing their jobs (both financially and emotionally), given how poorly they were being used, and how most of us have generally disliked WWE's stockpiling (and, mostly, wasting) of talented wrestlers, there's a fair part of me that is hopeful this will be a good thing overall.

UUDD is the only WWE-related thing I watch anymore, and that's purely for the talent on there, incl. Creed, Breeze and Cole. Would like to hope Breeze could still appear, but I guess most likely not?

Obviously it's not as simple as "WWE has billions yet is still trying to save money, whuu..??!?!" but whatever they're up to (suggestion on Facebook that they're trying to fund a return for The Rock?  ), I hope it ends up benefitting people I like, and the people who run WWE can remain largely ignored.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 26, 2021)

Do have to wonder quite what Xavier Woods/Austin Creed'll do.

He's obviously got such a legacy with the New Day, but he's putting so much work into all the other stuff and while I honestly don't know the ins and outs, I do wonder if there will come a point where whatever benefits he gets from being 'on the inside' with WWE are no longer worth the constraints that also come with it.

But... as he himself would say, UUDD isn't just him, it's all the other people he gets on, and presumably he'd no longer be able to feature any of them so while he wouldn't be starting from scratch, he'd lose a large chunk of the channel's appeal (in the sense of what those individuals add, not just because they're 'WWE superstars').


----------



## elbows (Jul 1, 2021)

I'm enjoying watching wrestling via AEW in a way that doesnt mean half the 'fun' is moaning about shit on screen or behind he scenes.

As for WWE, I dont currently manage to avoid top news stories such as when people get released or injured there, but I have finally escaped everything else, dont have any idea about current storylines or feuds or which commentators are the most annoying, and it feel good.

The Young Bucks as heels is working well. Take for example this hat to ear chain. I havent really managed to capture it well in a still photo, it wiggles around a lot and is easy heat.


----------



## elbows (Jul 1, 2021)

Ah here it is in video form.


----------



## elbows (Jul 1, 2021)

To summarise my rants here going back many years, scripted promos and corporate/McMahon-impeded commentary killed WWE for me. AEW, and NJPW before it have been a successful antidote to this for me, and I can enjoy wrestling again.


----------



## elbows (Jul 1, 2021)

Now that I think about it, Batista did demonstrate some mastery of the heel wardrobe towards the end of his full time wrestling career. I seem to recall he got a lot better as a character once he reached the point of no longer giving a shit about his WWE career.


----------



## 03gills (Jul 8, 2021)

WWE started on the fuckery slide when they put Stephanie McMahon in charge of creative & then tried to turn Austin heel in fucking Texas, essentially it's been one, long, painfully slow fall from grace since then. Cena briefly stopped the ratings slide in late '05/early '06 when he was getting nuclear heat from the crowds, but they never followed through with the logical heel turn & instead played it safe, forcing him to play the goofy cornball for the kids for the rest of his career & casual fans lost interest. Roman is playing an incredible heel & is the most interesting thing on the show but they're 6 years behind the curve on it & his new schtick isn't piquing enough interest for people to acually tune in, as opposed to just checking out the recaps online.


----------



## elbows (Jul 8, 2021)

I'd describe these things in conjunction with that sort of period:

Vince lost his touch but then again maybe he never really had that touch in the first place and it was various people booking for his company during certain periods that really gave them a number of hugely successful periods.

They threw away the potential that came from ending up owning WCW. Partly because some of the biggest WCW stars would only have come on board for the right money, partly because Vicne couldnt actually bring himself to let a different style of wrestling and non-Vince-created characters and brands get anywhere.

Austin himself really wanted that heel turn. It was a disaster for business and lost them a big chunk of audience that had up till that point treated the Stone Cold anti-authority figure as being authentic on some level.

People like Vince Russo didnt really understand wrestling and indulged in gimmicks that were unsustainable and would ultimately run out of new territory to burn through. Not that Dusty Rhodes, who did understand wrestling and booking, was any better when he got to book decades ago - quickly burnt through the best ideas and ended up booking too many gimmick finishes or promoting his own self & ego too much via booking. Heated up a territory to great heights but not in a sustainable way, so the success was brief.

WWF/WWE has a way of attempting to 'educate' its audience into certain match template expectations, and even during some of their biggest years they were encouraging audience attitudes that would lead to trouble down the line. eg an overreliance on run-ins etc often left people uninterested in many stages of a good match, just waiting for the run in and big pop etc.

The spectacle of WWF entertained me as a youngster but in terms of being a long term fan of wrestling, I'm better suited to the old territories of a version of WCW that wasnt run by complete idiots. I can sort of get that now via AEW or some other choices that I havent really had time to check out in recent years.


----------



## elbows (Jul 8, 2021)

Apparently WWE went so insane in recent years that they forgot how to book babyfaces. They have a way of learning the wrong lessons. For example Daniel Bryan got over massively despite their attempts to book him into a corner. And then when they finally realised that, they both failed to make the most of it and also decided that because Bryan could get over despite being squashed every week, that this was the great new way to make babyfaces out of other people too 

I'm just glad it doesnt matter that much to me anymore, unlike the years when I had to resort to desperately trying TNA Impact Wrestling as a doomed alternative when I was looking for something other than WWE. AEW does the job, and there is enough variety on the card that it doesnt even matter if I'm not a big fan of Coady Rhodes and his bloated sense of self/family. AEW do some shit booking too at times, but the overall quality is good enough, and the long time between pay per views also helps sustainable booking where storylines that should last months arent burnt through in weeks. I'd probably never have been into wrestling at all if I demanded there be no shit, just give me some of the good stuff too once in a  while. WWE can still deliver some great matches here and there, but I cant watch their shows every week without becoming very very unhappy.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 9, 2021)

03gills said:


> WWE started on the fuckery slide when they put Stephanie McMahon in charge of creative & then tried to turn Austin heel in fucking Texas, essentially it's been one, long, painfully slow fall from grace since then. Cena briefly stopped the ratings slide in late '05/early '06 when he was getting nuclear heat from the crowds, but they never followed through with the logical heel turn & instead played it safe, forcing him to play the goofy cornball for the kids for the rest of his career & casual fans lost interest. Roman is playing an incredible heel & is the most interesting thing on the show but they're 6 years behind the curve on it & his new schtick isn't piquing enough interest for people to acually tune in, as opposed to just checking out the recaps online.



I think it was more Cena himself didn't want to turn heel because of his work with kids. The amount of make a wish stuff and books he was doing at the time was unreal. 

Anyway Alistair Black showing up in AEW 30 days after his release, because they forgot to change it to 90, lol.

A) you let someone like that go who is amazing performer and B) you let him show up a month later on you're biggest rival, haha.


----------



## elbows (Jul 9, 2021)

I hear he has said "It feels good where I'm in a place where my creative mind can be utilized instead of stopped and controlled and knowing that things weren't going to work."


----------



## cybershot (Jul 9, 2021)

There comes a point though when al these ex WWE 'not being controlled, can show my true potential' people end up back in a lower/mid card rut.


----------



## elbows (Jul 9, 2021)

No I dont agree.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 10, 2021)

WTF Vega signed back with WWE is perplexing. Her husband and former client have both gone 'All Elite,' but she chose to delete the contentious pro-union Tweets and embrace mighty Stamford. She's gonna be doing houseshow matches against Liv Morgan in the opposite end of the USA to anyone she's ever known until they decide she's been punished enough.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 10, 2021)

Secure income stream for both though innit. Bit like married people working for the same company and company goes under.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2021)

Plus some people grew up thinking that being in WWE was the be all and end all, and are willing to hold their nose and do whatever it takes to maintain that. Not sure thats the case in that instance though.

In regards what I said the other day about not agreeing with the stuff about midcarders. Well frankly plenty of people who leave WWE are midcarders, that is their natural place on the card. But in many promotions the midcard can actually be quite good, you can still shine and take your craft seriously and retain some credibility in those spots. There are after all only a limited number of places at the very top of the card. But if you have a strong, credible midcard this matters less, and people can ping-pong between the very top of the card and the upper midcard without their careers being seen to be a waste.

There arent actually many people in WWE that I a desperate to see succeed elsewhere. Asuka and Daniel Bryan spring to mind, but in the case of the former I dont expect it, and in the case of the latter it is tempting to think maybe, but this is probably just setting myself up for disappointment.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2021)

Also I dont follow the stuff with Zelina Vega closely, but the dilemma for her was probably about whether she was better off with WWE in terms of advancing her out of ring career. On the one hand their control freakery makes it hard to independently pursue other opportunities, but there is probably also a case to be made that the level of exposure you can get in the entertainment world is higher via WWE than with other companies. That road is probably already paved with regrets, but the money helps ease the pain of that path.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Secure income stream for both though innit. Bit like married people working for the same company and company goes under.



Plus the WWE has a bad reputation for fucking around with couples via storylines or backstage politics or putting them of different brands with different touring schedules etc.

This has blown up in their face at times and they've had to learn to sometimes do the right thing on this front these days, but I would struggle to escape the historical record of them being vindictive, spiteful fuckers in this area.


----------



## elbows (Jul 29, 2021)

Now that crowds are back and the show is on the road, it is clear that AEW has done a fine job of getting nearly the entire card & roster over, with only the odd exception here and there. I wouldnt mind being on the mid card in that promotion!

I still dont call their product perfect but its a pleasure to watch decent booking and storytelling.

They are ending up with more injuries than I'm happy with, and the prospect of CM Punk being in AEW does not overexcite me too much but others seem into it and the build to it is fun.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 31, 2021)

hmm releasing wyatt is a bad move


what do wwe creative have aside from older stars and roman reigns at this stage


----------



## cybershot (Jul 31, 2021)

It seems an odd one especially as budget cuts was explained as the reason. The fiend must have shifted a shit ton of merch!


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 31, 2021)

as an lifelong undertaker mark

just think what they could of done with his characters if it was not of piss poor storytelling


----------



## elbows (Aug 1, 2021)

Storytelling in wrestling doesnt need to be difficult. Granted it will go wrong on occasions due to someone leaving or getting injured or not getting over, but apart from that it should be possible to tell stories well enough that the audience remains engaged.

I'm no longer convinced that McMahon was ever any good at this side of things. I think he had a certain vision and once knew how to listen to the right people, but those days are long gone. So I am tempted to credit their successful periods to bookers like Pat Patterson, and to continue to wonder why people stick with their product at all these days. I invested a bit of time in their product and all I ever got in return this century was being slapped in the face and told I was stupid for wasting my time on such investments. Not literally, but thats how watching WWE regularly ended up feeling.

I should have given up much sooner than I did, once the backstage shit was more compelling than the actual tv & ppv product. I'm so glad I got there in the end, all I needed was a reasonable alternative.

So please tell me why any of you bother with WWE in recent years?


----------



## elbows (Aug 2, 2021)

What is NXT like these days?

I see Adam Coles contract is up soon. Well apparently it already expired but he agreed to extend it till Summerslam.


----------



## elbows (Aug 9, 2021)

I hear there were lots of NXT cuts. And the following is hardly a shock, Vince learning all the wrong lessons from failure and favouring large wrestlers is far from a surprise. Its certainly one of the reasons I gave up on WWE and have no cause to regret it.



> "The feeling is that they lost the war (with AEW) and are getting back to it (younger and bigger)," Meltzer said, adding there are divisive opinions with key decision makers as to what wrestling is. Right now, the side of younger and bigger has McMahon's ear.
> 
> "The wording is 'no more midgets, no one starting in their 30s and people who can be box office attractions and main characters'," Meltzer said.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 9, 2021)

cannot say I watch WWE either just check the old pay per view match if it is interesting watch 2 in the last 2 years and gave the wwe network a month just to watch the last ride doc.


appear from all accounts Vince may be looking to finally sell the wwe, cut the talent is just part of making it look at profitable as possible on paper

as he no longer planning for the future


----------



## elbows (Aug 9, 2021)

I think a lot of the sale rumours stem from the basic economics these days - some of the tv deals are so expensive for the network involved that it may make more sense for them to spend the money acquiring the company instead.

I'd like it to be sold because I dont imagine ever watching it again with McMahon in charge. Originally this was because of his inability to put on a decent show and let storylines play out properly, almost no longterm booking etc. But the whole Saudi thing was the last straw for me in a different way, I wasnt prepared to hold my nose after that shit.


----------



## elbows (Aug 9, 2021)

Meanwhile I am vaguely excited about how AEW Rampage might turn out. Should be an easy watch as its only an hour long. Not sure of UK availability yet, hopefully it will be on FITE.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 10, 2021)

One thing I will say is that Wrestling is tons better with a crowd!


----------



## elbows (Aug 10, 2021)

cybershot said:


> One thing I will say is that Wrestling is tons better with a crowd!


Yeah I struggled to watch it at all during the pandemic. And crowds are red hot excited to be back. Although its not quite the stage of the pandemic where I can watch crazy crowd scenes without some serious misgivings. Due to not watching WWE I have no idea what their thunderdome setup with virtual fans was like either, but there is nothing like the real thing since good improvised pro wrestling is a dance between the performers and the audience.


----------



## elbows (Aug 10, 2021)

Miro is pretty entertaining in AEW. Sort of like a version of Brian Blessed from a parallel dimension. And a nice knock on fighters who bring their religion into their promos.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 10, 2021)

When cricket was rained off the other evening (yeah I know quite the contrast) BT Sport had smack down, raw and nxt on back to back. It all seemed pretty watchable. But it was probably because I hadn’t watched anything for months and the crowd was a novelty. I’m sure if I started watching weekly I’d quickly get bored.

Do ITV even still show AEW? I only catch it if there is literally nothing else to watch and I can get it on my IPTV on demand sub.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 10, 2021)

4 am in the uk with itv

not sure BT sport having WWE programming was a good sign either 

WWE basic product is now just old stars

when they brought back Cena for a match to turn Rains Babyface you know something is wrong with the product

whilst releasing so many starts like alistair black, Rusev, Strowman and a character like Bray Wyatt

also the releases from NXT which was the best part of WWE for years


i'll be honest don't even watch WWE anymore just catch up on the odd internet video from Simon Millers gig on youtube

circling the pan is putting it easy


----------



## cybershot (Sep 6, 2021)

Won't post any All Out spoilers just yet, but incredible event.


----------



## elbows (Sep 8, 2021)

You can say that again, they are on fire and that show was special! And what a roster they now have.

I marked out especially when this temporary special attraction emerged to his music....


----------



## elbows (Sep 9, 2021)

Lol apparently WWEs idea for Adam Cole was to move him up to the main roster as a manager (who would still wrestle here and there). And they would probably have changed his name because they didnt want his name to clash with Michael Cole.

Cant imagine why he left 

Kevin Owens contract is up in January and he has been dropping hints on twitter (since deleted, apparently).


----------



## elbows (Sep 9, 2021)

I think I'd have to go back in time to before Eddie Guerrero died in 2005 to find a moment where I was this happy to be a wrestling fan.

Thanks AEW! It really would have been such a frustrating waste if there hadnt been a decent, viable, large wrestling promotion around to take advantage of the several generations of great wrestling talent that is available these days. NJPW had a long period where they could fill that role in their own way, but with obvious limitations due to certain cultural and language differences, and largely scuppered by the pandemic anyway.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 18, 2021)

Well, unsuprisingly, the latest Dark Side of the Ring (not available here yet, but on YT for those with VPNs), has provoked reactions. If Ric Flair is allowed near a television camera ever again I would be amazed. Filthy fucking carny business.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 18, 2021)

One of those where it's just weird that it's taken this long to have any significant impact. I'd forgotten that WWE actually featured it in their bloody animated 'story time' programme thing.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 18, 2021)

Jesus. Have they sucked all the life out of NXT? How long until this is on the Disney channel?


----------



## elbows (Sep 18, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Jesus. Have they sucked all the life out of NXT? How long until this is on the Disney channel?


The plan for it these days is to actually be a development territory, and when I say that I mean a shit one that caters for and churns out the sort of rather large and green wrestlers that McMahon thinks he knows what to do with on the main roster.

I wouldnt dream of watching it, and I no longer even want to hear reviews/recaps of it.

Meanwhile on the WWE main roster I expect the booking and storytelling to become even worse because they tend to hotshot angles when they are feeling pressure from competition. And AEW has been beating Raw in some key demographic.


----------



## elbows (Sep 22, 2021)

Hopefully this weeks AEW television will live up to the hype that its going to be like having a pay per view on tv, split across two 2 hour shows.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 23, 2021)

Best. Dynamite. Ever.


----------



## elbows (Oct 6, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Best. Dynamite. Ever.


Yes it was a lot of fun. Only downside to weeks like that is that things sometimes dont feel quite so hot the following week, although in last weeks case I'm tempted to partly blame the New York crowd. Maybe there wasnt even anything wrong with last weeks shows and I was just in the wrong mood to appreciate them as much as normal, I cant really tell as Im just one person with an opinion.

Tonights two year dynamite anniversary show might be great, including some announcement and another one of those 'joker' entries into a casino match. Although the only problem with those is that the rumour mill sometimes gets carried away to the extent that the actual mystery participant can end up being an anticlimax. I have no idea whether either of these things will actually involve a new addition to the roster.


----------



## elbows (Nov 17, 2021)

I wasnt overwhelmed by the latest AEW PPVs card on paper, but what a great show it turned out to be!

I'm still really enjoying watching this wrestling product and not feeling the need to talk and moan about WWE all the time. Since I keep up with some but not all of the broader news, it certainly looks like there has been plenty to comment on, from HHH's health to NXT 2.0 to the latest batch of talent releases.

I did laugh at the 'cause I end careers quicker than your father-in-law' line delivered to Bryan Danielson by Max Castor earlier this month. Probably enhanced by my appreciation of listening to a commentary team thats actually enjoying themselves rather than being abused by McMahon in their ear.

It is slightly painful listening to Jim Ross really struggling not to keep saying Daniel Bryan, he needs a cunning plan such as only referring to him as Danielson and leaving out the Bryan bit or something.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 17, 2021)

I keep forgetting this thread exists.

Full gear was a blast and enjoyable.

Not watched WWE in yonks either, although randomly the OH has started recording Smackdown because she likes Roman Reigns. 

We don't live together, so at least don't get tourtured by that, I did randomly put an episode of Dynamite on and she did seem impressed at the 'edgier' content. As you can see she's clearly easily influenced by a bit of swearing and middle fingers!!  Although the women being 'proper wrestlers' also helped. I wish AEW would sort that division out properly, thankfully it does seem to be getting some better attention with the introduction of the second title.


----------



## strung out (Nov 17, 2021)

My wife was a huge WWE fan who has been lapsed the whole time we've been together due to how awful it's become.

We've just started watching AEW, so this is my first time being into wrestling and absolutely loving it. Full Gear was excellent, and enjoyed virtually every match.

My wife and I even went to a Halloween party dressed as Sting and Darby Allin


----------



## elbows (Nov 17, 2021)

On swearing, Tony Schiavone has grown to love doing that and other less sweary insults on commentary, I wasnt sure about him to start with but he has really grown into the role and his enthusiasm is infectious. Its Sting!!!!!

I did wonder if that had gone too far when they started coming up with insults that shared the same acronyms as the US TV stations & associated belts (TNT, TBS).


----------



## cybershot (Nov 17, 2021)

strung out said:


> My wife was a huge WWE fan who has been lapsed the whole time we've been together due to how awful it's become.
> 
> We've just started watching AEW, so this is my first time being into wrestling and absolutely loving it. Full Gear was excellent, and enjoyed virtually every match.
> 
> ...



That's awesome


----------



## elbows (Nov 18, 2021)

For all the greatness we've seen in AEW, we havent seen the very best of Kenny Omega there. Because he has been working with numerous injuries for ages, including knee and shoulder problems and an abdominal hernia. So now he will be gone for months in an attempt to recover.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 19, 2021)

Really do feel for Woods/Creed. Obviously it sucks for everyone, but feels like he must so conflicted these days.

All the crap with Up Up Down Down being messed around, especially as it has a clear ideology to promote and support those who aren't getting that from their actual employer, but then would he ever be able to leave his two brothers in The New Day, and still all the (very well-earned) success all three of them are having?

He'd clearly be absolutely _fine_ in one sense if he left, but still feel like there's a lot of emotional reasons for him to stay.

<edit: and famously this was Adam Cole finding out live on his stream about Breeze's release>


----------



## elbows (Feb 16, 2022)

I'm pretty happy that Cody Rhodes & Brandi are out of AEW, especially as Brandi was just starting to wrestle again. 

Also very happy that Keith Lee is in


----------



## strung out (Feb 16, 2022)

Having never watched any WWE, I really didn't know what to expect from Keith Lee, but his first match was fantastic - super impressive. Props to Private Party for their role in putting Keith Lee over too, they were excellent.

Mildly disappointed about Cody's departure, his recent ladder match with Sammy Guevarra and getting put through a burning table by Andrade stick out as being some of my favourites since I started watching wrestling in September, but his character has just been really flat, and while Brandi seems nice enough, her appearances have been shocking. That in-ring segment with America Top Team was dreadful.

Will be interesting to see whether Cody does go back to WWE, or has something else lined up.


----------



## elbows (Feb 16, 2022)

Yeah his ladder match was great but having watched a lot of WWE ladder matches over the years (one thing they could be relied upon to do well) I reached the point of spending too much time being afraid for the health of the competitors when watching them!

I've got nothing against Cody in the ring but I dont like the contents of his promos and the dynamic of the crowd reacting in ways that mess up the storylines is something I was bored of via WWE so didnt want to see in AEW.


----------



## strung out (Feb 16, 2022)

Yeah, if the rumours about him wanting more money are correct, you can't really justify giving him much more given the fan reaction to him has been lukewarm at best. Compare the pops for CM Punk, Bryan or Moxley and they just don't compare. 

Very few disappointed fans on the various forums I've read, so I doubt Tony Khan will be bothered.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 16, 2022)

The Cody thing is insane. I can't see him being happy in WWE, but if the reasoning is he thinks he's worthy of a massive deal, then where else is he going to end up!

Can't say I'm looking forward to the 'Reality Showdown' when they end up in a mixed tag with Miz & Maryse.

Plus, can WWE trust him? Will he be forced to sign NDAs in regards leaking information to his best mates in AEW! They'll know test him with truth and bullshit.


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 16, 2022)

what his new gimmick, polka dots, homophobia or the new triple h



its a strange situation as whilst the family has history with wwe

its never appeared to be that happy long term


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 16, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Plus, can WWE trust him? Will he be forced to sign NDAs in regards leaking information to his best mates in AEW!



I've been barely following this, but I get the sense the general feeling is they are not really best mates no more, if they ever even were...

Does seem a very strange situation from the outside, but who knows what's going on behind the scenes and between the ears.

On the surface it is a shame, as he was obviously (again, at least from the way it was presented) a big part of forming AEW and providing a genuine US alternative to WWE. 

Oh well, guess we'll see what happens next...


----------



## elbows (Feb 17, 2022)

I try not to follow backstage news much these days, since I mostly only did that for decades when I wasnt happy enough with the actual product presented on tv etc.

But it does sound like with Cody it was an issue to do with not having enough booking/creative control. Thats understandable since the original top wrestler 'VIPs' of AEW were given titles that suggested lots of input in that area, but over time Tony Khan has stamped his authority on the booker role. I dont actually mind that change, so long as Khan doesnt lose the plot when booking, and so long as the promos arent too heavily scripted. But I also understand if it pisses off some of the top wrestlers from the start of AEW who expected more control, not that I think its often a good thing to give wrestlers too much booking power. So maybe this is not the last big ramification we will get to see as a result of power changes compared to the early days.

Its also not surprising this issue bothered Cody especially because he places a lot of emphasis on continuing the legacy of his father, has an overinflated opinion of Dusty, and Dusty being a booker was quite the part of his legacy. Personally I think its a tainted part since although Dustys booking initially worked wonders for a territory back in the day, it also killed that territory eventually. Dusty burnt through ideas so quickly and raised the bar in a manner that could not be sustained long-term in those territorial days. As far as I could tell he could also be an arsehole in terms of how he booked himself as a wrestler at the top (including fans eventually turning on him - so Cody lived up to that part of the legacy lol), how he treated other wrestlers he didnt like, and how he came to over-rely on screw job finishes in order to avoid clean wins & losses. He did that crap finish stuff so often that the entire genre became known as the 'Dusty finish'.

Cody probably wouldnt have left WWE in the first place if they had allowed him to do the Dusty tribute he wanted with his character after Dusty died, instead of sticking to the stardust gimmick. What I imagine may happen this time around is that Cody will agree some storyline & character with Vince to start his new WWE run and that will go ok, but over time Vince will still be control freak Vince and they will eventually fall out over something again.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Feb 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> He did that crap finish stuff so often that the entire genre became known as the 'Dusty finish'.


Ohhhhh, I thought it was "dusty" simply because it wasn't "clean"


----------



## elbows (Feb 17, 2022)

Ah  Its named after him for certain, although perhaps I was a little unfair to his booking in my previous post - other bookers then using those finishes too much are a chunk of what gave them their bad reputation. And a big part of what eventually doomed his booking was the industry, television etc changing a lot in a short space of time, in ways territories and their bookers were always going to struggle to cope with especially with McMahons aggressive tactics of domination. All the same Dusty certainly made mistakes and I'll always have mixed feelings about him.


----------



## strung out (Mar 3, 2022)

So Tony Khan has bought Ring of Honor, along with all the back catalogue of matches. Excellent tribute match on AEW Dynamite this week with Christopher Daniels and Bryan Danielson recreating their match from the first ever Ring of Honor show 20 years ago. 

AEW Revolution pay per view this weekend too, and the card looks absolutely stacked. Can't wait for the conclusion to the CM Punk, MJF feud!


----------



## elbows (Mar 5, 2022)

Yeah I was very happy to hear about the RoH deal, especially since they were previously owned by right-wing shitheads Sinclair.

I've got a backlog of AEW tv to watch before the PPV, but I think I've allowed myself just enough time to catchup. Card does indeed look pretty great, as always.


----------



## bromley (Mar 8, 2022)

Go out of your way to watch MJF V CM Punk and Danielson V Moxley. Probably Moxley's best ever match.


----------



## strung out (Mar 8, 2022)

The entire show was amazing, apart from perhaps Britt vs Thunder Rosa (which only really suffered from being boring), not a bad match the whole night.

Agree though, Punk vs MJF in particular was fantastic.


----------



## elbows (Mar 8, 2022)

I thought I was going to get through the whole ladder match without shouting 'dont do that!' but the final bump of that match changed that.

On a related note, Sting is 62 and decided to take a mad bump from a great height through tables, blimey. Not that I was totally surprised since he had already started doing that sort of thing during his AEW run, but he better not try to up the ante any further in future!

Anyway, loved the show, and was very happy to see Regal turn up. Nice to see the relatively slowly built but inevitable Wardlow-MJF thing get started properly. Good old fashioned wrestling storytelling, where we are supposed to see it coming a mile off and can look forward to stuff coming to fruition, rather than the 'swerve the audience for the sake of it' bullshit that did so much to spoil the fun for many years via shithead bookers like Vince Russo.


----------



## bromley (Mar 9, 2022)

In fairness to Russo he booked the Survivor Series '98 Rock heel turn (or swerve bro as he would call it) that had been built up without the fans realising at the time but made sense when they looked back in hindsight. Can't think of anything else that he did that was not crash tv! 

AEW also have the Young Bucks reDRagon storyline that's building towards Omega V Cole.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 9, 2022)

Still got the last two matches to watch, but echo that it was a great PPV.


----------



## elbows (Mar 11, 2022)

bromley said:


> In fairness to Russo he booked the Survivor Series '98 Rock heel turn (or swerve bro as he would call it) that had been built up without the fans realising at the time but made sense when they looked back in hindsight. Can't think of anything else that he did that was not crash tv!
> 
> AEW also have the Young Bucks reDRagon storyline that's building towards Omega V Cole.



Yeah I should clarify that I'm not against all swerves, I'm just against their use for the sake of it, too often, or when they mess up the storylines rather than enhancing them. Although most of the time I still prefer swerves when the audience is given some clues over time that they may be coming, like one we saw on this weeks dynamite.

As for Russo, I stopped watching wrestling for quite some years during the 1990s and missed that particular part of WWF history. I am under the impression that Russo actually did some good work for a year or two but that his methods werent sustainable, not least because he didnt really understand or appreciate some of the key things that make wrestling work for much longer periods. And/or maybe he could be a positive influence when he was part of the right team but not when he was given free rein for too long. In the history of wrestling bookers he isnt unique in that respect, there have been others who could really get fans interested for a period, but couldnt sustain it without their booking techniques becoming very counterproductive over the longer term. I made a similar accusation about Dusty Rhodes not too long ago, although I'm not meaning to suggest he and Russo had much else in common.


----------



## bromley (Mar 15, 2022)

R. I. P. Scott Hall. 😔


----------



## Lord Camomile (Mar 15, 2022)

bromley said:


> R. I. P. Scott Hall. 😔


Ah shite, saw a headline that he'd been taken to hospital (I think), sad to hear he didn't make it


----------



## elbows (Mar 16, 2022)

RIP to him, bad complications after hip surgery.

He was one of those survivors who people expected to die a long time ago, like so many of his peers from that generation of wrestlers did. But for a long time he managed to surprise everyone by surviving, sort of like Keith Richards.


----------



## bromley (Mar 17, 2022)

elbows said:


> RIP to him, bad complications after hip surgery.
> 
> He was one of those survivors who people expected to die a long time ago, like so many of his peers from that generation of wrestlers did. But for a long time he managed to surprise everyone by surviving, sort of like Keith Richards.


The worst thing is he seemed to have overcome his demons. This came completely out of the blue IMO.


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2022)

bromley said:


> The worst thing is he seemed to have overcome his demons. This came completely out of the blue IMO.



Hard to say for sure, he was doing better overall in the last 10+ years but there were still occasional signs that he probably had a setback. Last one of those I noticed that went public was around October 2020.

In addition to the usual demons many wrestlers, especially from that era faced, it did seem that he had PTSD stemming from the time he got into a fight with someone. Someone who then pulled a gun on him and he ended up gaining control of the gun and shooting the guy in self-defence from point blank range. And then probably never sought nor received proper support with coming to terms with that incident.


----------



## elbows (Mar 22, 2022)

Apparently it was worse than I dared suggest in previous post. He never beat his demons for more than brief periods, and was completely fucked in the last few years.

Which makes me sad. I mean it was always sort of possible to read between the lines and figure out that he was not totally 'saved' by DDP in the way Jake the Snake was, but I had hoped that he still enjoyed some lengthy periods of sobriety.


----------



## bromley (Mar 25, 2022)

Does anyone listen to the DDP Snakepit podcast? Holy fuck has Jake turned around. It's crazy hearing him being so positive.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 26, 2022)

Anyone going to this, we have tickets for the Sunday. Originally so my sis could get photo/sig with Jeff Hardy but he's since pulled out cuz of AEW commitments! 



Went to the one in 2019 and it was very good!









						Home | For The Love Of Wrestling
					

For The Love Of Wrestling is the largest wrestling convention in Europe! Comprising special guests from WWE, WCW, TNA and more, Andy Kleek and the Monopoly Events team present For The Love Of Wrestling 29-30 April 2023.




					www.fortheloveofwrestling.co.uk


----------



## elbows (Mar 27, 2022)

No, I dont think I've attended anything wrestling-related in person since the early 1990's. I suppose I'd consider attending an AEW show if the opportunity ever arises, but even assuming they make it over to the UK eventually, I bet I wont manage to go to the first oe.


----------



## elbows (May 29, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Anyone going to this, we have tickets for the Sunday. Originally so my sis could get photo/sig with Jeff Hardy but he's since pulled out cuz of AEW commitments!


How was it? I kept meaning to ask, especially when JR mentioned it in commentary, but then I kept forgetting.

I'm looking forward to the PPV tonight.


----------



## cybershot (May 30, 2022)

elbows said:


> How was it? I kept meaning to ask, especially when JR mentioned it in commentary, but then I kept forgetting.
> 
> I'm looking forward to the PPV tonight.


It wasn’t as good as the previous one. Felt like we were hanging around far more but that’s how these things are I guess. 

The in ring interviews with the new age outlaws and JR were good. The format is people in the audience ask the questions so they have no idea what they are going to get asked. Problem is a lot of stupid questions get asked no one cares about or they have probably been asked a thousand times before. Was the odd interesting question. 

Only went on the Sunday but apparently MJF was on form on the Saturday. I think there’s a few YouTube and Instagram pics knocking about he was in character the whole event.


----------



## cybershot (May 30, 2022)

Also, I know no one cares but the price of WWE tickets for the event in wales are scandalous in my opinion. Yet people are lapping them up. For a seat in the top tier it came back at £225. I only looked at my OH said it would be good to go for atmosphere but at those price ms they can fuck off. Sad thing is people are coughing up. Set to be the second biggest WWE gate in history if it sells out. Which I doubt it will but apparently the suits are happy with sales so far. Especially in comparison to money in the bank which they’ve had to embarrassingly move from a stadium due to poor sales. 

So expect to see a big British rip off event annually I think.


----------



## bromley (May 30, 2022)

He's another level and hark at the lady trying to explain to him what a heel is.



Also


----------



## elbows (Jun 1, 2022)

Another great pay per view, although a few things went wrong and it was rather long.

Sounds like MJF got in a genuine dispute over pay and no-showed a fan meet and greet that loads of people had paid good money for, causing a real stink. But being wrestling that very real incident sounds like it then got somewhat resolved, at least temporarily, and later got turned into a work, with false reports that he had bought a plane ticket and would not be at the pay per view. So from now on they will probably deliberately blur the lines between truth and fiction, and it might be hard to tell the difference unless the situation deteriorates and comes to be a bitter end in real life.

The MJF as a child footage is pretty great, I had no idea about it till I saw it on DDP & Jake the Snakes show recently.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 1, 2022)

Didn't see the PPV, but I'm of the view that everything reported of MJF is true and that, despite his showing up for work Sunday night, he has pretty much walked out. Will be surprised if he reappears on AEW TV.  Not the best negotiating position to be in when arguing your potential worth with Nick Khan. I wonder if the Sasha Banks situation played into his decision making?


----------



## elbows (Jun 1, 2022)

Well the initial stuff was certainly true, likely he isnt being paid the right amount of money given how high up he's gotten as a heel. And there has been tension in the past in terms of him publicly going on about what will happen and WWE when his contract is up, done to put him in a strong negotiating position.

What will happen next depends on further imminent negotiations over money I suppose. Apparent Khan has offered to pay him more but only if he extends his contract, and MJF may resist the contract extension bit. 

The way things were already booked means he'd probably be off tv for some weeks now anyway, whatever happens with negotiations. And because aspects of the dispute are public and this is wrestling, there is opportunity to deliberately blur the lines for a while if they reach agreement and want to make something out of the opportunity. Or maybe something will happen that makes the next chapter of the reality obvious, or certain reporters will get the real scoop on what happens next.

I'm currently neutral with my opinion of whether we'll see him in AEW again because it depends what happens with negotiations, and never say never in the wrestling business.


----------



## strung out (Jun 1, 2022)

I'd be shocked if he isn't seen again. He's got until 2024 left on his contract and he's not going to disappear off screen completely for two years. 

A great ppv though, only one or two duff matches in there.


----------



## bromley (Jun 1, 2022)

I think it's a work. The way he behaves at fan fests i wouldn't put no showing past him working the gimmick. Wonder if he'll say i respect you bookerman to Khan? 😉


----------



## elbows (Jun 1, 2022)

AEW isnt WCW though. And pissing off paying customers is absolutely not something I think AEW would indulge in, not in that fashion anyway. They've made some mistakes with talent relations in the last year and I wont accuse them of being perfect, but its not plausible to me that they would not only upset paying fans but also leave a load of lower level employees having to deal with irate customers on the day without any warning or useful information.

But none of the speculation is surprising because both fans and wrestlers themselves always come up with theories about whats real and whats a work, and promotions do try to make the most of that to create buzz and interest in the product and give things an edge of unpredictability. And certainly the likes of WCW under Bischoff tried to be clever on those fronts and ended up being stupid. 'Working the boys' just fuelled wrestlers insecurity and paranoia, and sometimes blew up in managements face in funny ways. Brian Pilman was a great example of that. This situation does have some aspects in common with that, including money & negotiations, but the comparisons only stretch so far.

I have little reason to doubt that the MJF stuff was a real situation that evolved into a work, and could go either way in future.


----------



## elbows (Jun 1, 2022)

I'm more curious about what the spot with the mobility scooter was supposed to be in the anarchy in the arena match, that didnt happen because they couldnt get it to move.


----------



## strung out (Jun 1, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Didn't see the PPV, but I'm of the view that everything reported of MJF is true and that, despite his showing up for work Sunday night, he has pretty much walked out. Will be surprised if he reappears on AEW TV.  Not the best negotiating position to be in when arguing your potential worth with Nick Khan. I wonder if the Sasha Banks situation played into his decision making?


MJF appearing on Dynamite tonight apparently.


----------



## bromley (Jun 2, 2022)

Turns out i was right. 😏



BTW WCW was amazing from June 96-December '97 and it still holds up today unlike WWF's attitute era, arguably the best period of any promotion ever. I think Pilman tricked Bischoff, this seems like an actual angle.


----------



## strung out (Jun 2, 2022)

bromley said:


> Turns out i was right. 😏
> 
> 
> 
> BTW WCW was amazing from June 96-December '97 and it still holds up today unlike WWF's attitute era, arguably the best period of any promotion ever. I think Pilman tricked Bischoff, this seems like an actual angle.



It was brilliant - just finished watching it. 

I do think it's a work, but it's a fucking fantastic one.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 2, 2022)

Going back to the PPV, it was good, but I would agree it was too long. Both orgs need to try and bring these back down to 3 hours tops. For the sanity of the people at the show more than anything. I can easily stop and come back later watching on demand.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 2, 2022)

bromley said:


> Turns out i was right. 😏
> 
> 
> 
> BTW WCW was amazing from June 96-December '97 and it still holds up today unlike WWF's attitute era, arguably the best period of any promotion ever. I think Pilman tricked Bischoff, this seems like an actual angle.



If they wanted to work it, they should have had 'security' get him out the ring after a minute as soon as he mentioned execs, but like proper getting rid none of this usual way they do it. The fact it went on for 7 minutes, makes everyone know it's being played.


----------



## elbows (Jun 3, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Going back to the PPV, it was good, but I would agree it was too long. Both orgs need to try and bring these back down to 3 hours tops. For the sanity of the people at the show more than anything. I can easily stop and come back later watching on demand.



I cant comment on how WWE audiences are handling the long shows but the AEW fans were certainly able to handle the length of the last PPV on that occasion, even though it was extra long and a bit much for my tastes. Probably for AEW 4 hours + a bit of pre-show is the length I would aim for, though it does depend on the card and its pacing. Since AEW doesnt have PPVs every single month and their match quality is excellent with plenty of variety, I think 3 hours is too short for them.


----------



## elbows (Jun 3, 2022)

bromley said:


> Turns out i was right. 😏



I wasnt proven wrong either as I said it had turned into a work/there was an opportunity to turn it into a work so long as the real life dispute was smoothed over. What we are seeing now was always the most likely next step, once the real no-show of the meet and greet had been dealt with. It is true that I cannot definitively prove that the very first situation was actually real before the working started.



> BTW WCW was amazing from June 96-December '97 and it still holds up today unlike WWF's attitude era, arguably the best period of any promotion ever. I think Pilman tricked Bischoff, this seems like an actual angle.



The Pillman situation evolved - it was a work, with Bischoff and Pillman working the other wrestlers as well as the audience, but then later Pillman took advantage of it for real life gain and it blew up in Bischoffs face for real. Bischoff was nowhere near as clever as he thought he was, and even his very successful stuff which gave WCW that winning position for the period you mentioned came with great risks that eventually caught up with them and sent the company down the toilet. eg the nWo stuff came with the downside of making the main comapny brand seem stupid in the fans eyes, and they didnt have a plan to resolve that in a way that could insulate the company from that image sticking in the longer term.

Hopefully AEW will not make all of the same mistakes, eg they need to make sure that this MJF angle doesnt lead to fans permanently buying into the idea that Khan is a mark that predominately relies on former WWE talent. They will probably avoid this fate so long as they get the timing right and arent as stupid as WCW executives were, and heed the lessons from those mistakes of the past. Fans and wrestlers have evolved their attitudes since those days too, which will help, but some care is still required I suppose.


----------



## elbows (Jun 3, 2022)

cybershot said:


> If they wanted to work it, they should have had 'security' get him out the ring after a minute as soon as he mentioned execs, but like proper getting rid none of this usual way they do it. The fact it went on for 7 minutes, makes everyone know it's being played.



There are limits as to how far they should go to give it an air of believability/reality. Totally convincing reality would not be so entertaining, and if you take that sort of attention to detail to its natural conclusion then in a real situation they'd never have had him on the show or at least wouldnt have given him a live mic in the first place.

It was a great promo and I'm happy with how its been done so far. I dont know how they will keep it that hot for a prolonged period, and AEW does make their fair share of booking mistakes, but I'll try not to overthink it from now on and will just take it one show at a time.

I'm pretty excited about the tie-in pay per view with New Japan, although they have much less time than normal to build towarsd the show so I wonder how rushed things might feel this month.


----------



## elbows (Jun 3, 2022)

Ha the journalist I listened to about the MJF fan meet no-show has now wobbled about whether that part was even a shoot, so I'm more tempted to assume it was a work right from the very start rather than my previous stance that it became a work later. I think I'll go back to enjoying the show and paying less attention to wrestling journalism and backstage shit.

One thing that does seem clear from fans being unhappy with Statlander not making it to the final of the tournament, and the way they cheered MJF, is that there is quite some degree of fan loyalty to the people who made AEW from the start. I hope AEW manage this properly and turn it into an advantage rather than ending up making too many unpopular match booking decisions along this fault line in future.


----------



## bromley (Jun 6, 2022)

Lots of wrestling journalists report things as facts to try and give themselves some kind of credibility when they're just guessing as they're outside the inner circle.


----------



## elbows (Jun 7, 2022)

Well I only follow a couple, and they are pretty good at making clear when they are dealing with apparent facts or just their own opinions or attempts to deduce the reality. Its my own fault if I place too much faith in their ability to guess correctly. It seems Dave Meltzer has had to adjust his views on what sort of decisions Tony Khan reaches when it comes to stuff such as screwing some fans to get an angle going. I just hope Khans judgement doesnt deteriorate further over time, and that he uses his knowledge of wrestling history properly to avoid too many WCW-like mistakes.

Lots of injuries recently, Punk and Rhodes quite badly injured. Danielson and and Cole less severely injured but still not going to be wrestling for some weeks.

I hear there was an excellent Young Bucks & Lucha Bros match on Rampage but I am a bit behind and havent watched that episode yet.


----------



## elbows (Jun 7, 2022)

I love Regal when he appears on commentary (Im just catching up with last weeks episode of Dynamite).


----------



## bromley (Jun 7, 2022)

I can't stand the young bucks. FTR on the other hand.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 8, 2022)

elbows said:


> I love Regal when he appears on commentary (Im just catching up with last weeks episode of Dynamite).



Yes, I too look forward to his guys being in a match as it means he'll be at the announce desk, flower, but he should have built his stable from newer talents - there was no need for the then secondary heel, Danielson (who is clearly still a heel) former champion, Moxley (who is clearly still a face) to be paired with up-and-coming Yuta.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 8, 2022)

bromley said:


> I can't stand the young bucks. FTR on the other hand.



FTR need to beat Jungle Boy and Botchasaurus (who gives a shit) and then they can do something about all of these silly meaningless titles they have floating around. Ricky Starks for the TNT title in the same manner.


----------



## strung out (Jun 8, 2022)

bromley said:


> I can't stand the young bucks. FTR on the other hand.


Oh no...



I do love FTR too, fwiw.


----------



## elbows (Jun 12, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> FTR need to beat Jungle Boy and Botchasaurus (who gives a shit) and then they can do something about all of these silly meaningless titles they have floating around. Ricky Starks for the TNT title in the same manner.


I see they added another new title since you said that.


----------



## bromley (Jun 13, 2022)

Adam Cole is carrying around his Owen Hart title as well. It's all a bit silly.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2022)

Luckily for me I dont need the title picture, booking decisions and storylines to be pefect in order to really enjoy watching. But I certainly dont want to feel like the promotion is going to keep getting worse or sillier in future. And maybe AEW is heading into a dangerous period over the next 9 months since they need to start negotiating their next set of tv contracts and might well end up trying too hard. Fingers crossed they wont overheat and fuck things up too much.

I watched a few WWE clips recently and concluded that I could probably even live with much of the stupidity in that promotion. Rather it continues to be the commentary on their shows that means I still cannot contemplate watching WWE on a regular basis, awful mind numbing insincere shit that I cannot listen to.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2022)

I dont want to see serial drink driving offenders on the wrestling shows I watch either, so fuck Jeff Hardy who got arrested yet again.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 15, 2022)

elbows said:


> I dont want to see serial drink driving offenders on the wrestling shows I watch either, so fuck Jeff Hardy who got arrested yet again.



Quite right, and supposedly those in charge of their TV agree. Lots of reddit posts about Uber and their equivalants, but the guy is a millionaire. He could employ a fucking Bently-driving chauffeur in a peaked-cap if he wanted to. But he doesn't, because he's a selfish cunt.


----------



## bromley (Jun 15, 2022)

Police Video Shows Guns Were Drawn on Jeff Hardy After He Failed to Comply, Update on When Hardy Was Arrested, More

Jeff needs serious help, it's been about twenty years now of recovering and falling off the wagon. This week's news is as serious as the previous issues. It's going to take a lot to convince me that he's turned his life around properly, he needs a DDP type .


----------



## elbows (Jun 16, 2022)

Well I dont know if he will ever be saved and recover, but I certainly dont think it will happen while he is still an active wrestler. Does too many things in the ring that cause too much pain, and looked to have hurt his brain in the ring again really quite recently.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 17, 2022)

I love Jeff Hardy, and it breaks my heart seeing this keep happen.

I think AEW need to take some of the heat for this, they've been putting him in crazy matches since he got there, he's crazy enough to agree to it, but the mans body is going to break at some point. He needs lengthly time away from the ring. To recover from the pain, to recover from the addiction.
I just hope he has the right attitude, which if the past is anything to go by, he doesn't, to admit and face up to this. With Jake on the scene I really hope he gives him some home truths, it might seem ridiculous sending wrestlers of this nature to DDP all the time, but something clearly clicks with his methods and I hope he reaches out to Jeff.


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2022)

cybershot said:


> I love Jeff Hardy, and it breaks my heart seeing this keep happen.
> 
> I think AEW need to take some of the heat for this, they've been putting him in crazy matches since he got there, he's crazy enough to agree to it, but the mans body is going to break at some point. He needs lengthly time away from the ring. To recover from the pain, to recover from the addiction.
> I just hope he has the right attitude, which if the past is anything to go by, he doesn't, to admit and face up to this. With Jake on the scene I really hope he gives him some home truths, it might seem ridiculous sending wrestlers of this nature to DDP all the time, but something clearly clicks with his methods and I hope he reaches out to Jeff.


I only see DDP as a solution when its for people who have got overtly trapped in a hellhole of negativity, hopelessness and low self esteem over a long period of time, who can potentially benefit from DDPs whole positivity and self-belief thing. And maybe he can connect better with people from his own generation of wrestlers. So I cant quite bring myself to see him as a default solution for wrestlers with addiction issues.

I dont know much about the real Jeff Hardy at all. Most accounts I hear are that he is a nice person who people that know him find likeable, but thats also why he has been given too many chances in the business after fucking up.

More broadly, even though its about 15 years ago now, the start of the whole 'wellness policy' era in wrestling and actually taking a bunch of issues seriously and dealing with them after some very high profile deaths and years of staggering numbers of deaths, is still rather fresh in my mind. And it pisses me off that elsewhere attention to this stuff seems to have faded over time, including amongst wrestling journalists who did used to bother to go on about it a lot when it was a hot topic. And so I am not very happy at the lack of attention as to whether AEW even has a wellness policy, am not happy with a bunch of stuff AEW allow in their matches, etc. And this year I've also started to become uncomfortable with visible changes to a bunch of peoples bodies which I am tempted to view as suspicious but obviously cannot get to the bottom of myself.


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2022)

McMahon finally publicly exposed as having had sexual relationships with employees and then paid them off. Board of directors investigating (excluding directors that are part of the McMahon family).

They'll have their work cut out for them if they want to be seen to explore the issues properly and draw a line under things without fully sacrificing McMahon and some other key executives. Because these behaviour patterns likely stretch back many decades, involve key McMahon lieutenants as well, and if properly explored will likely demonstrate a sleazy mens club culture that even goes beyond the usual corporate power sleaze via the combination of how dodgy wrestling promotions traditionally were, and how extreme a personality type McMahon is. Defensive action so far seems to be around the theme of 'the relationships were consensual and Vince didnt use company money to pay them off' but there is a suggestion at least one of them got a pay rise due to the relationship so that side of things could still sink him.

The board were first given the info about this some months ago, so it might go some of the way to explain not only why Stephanie McMahon left, but how the story of her leaving evolved from 'taking a break' to being fully replaced and then publicly buried via negative articles that WWE gifted to the business press.

Completely unclear how much more will come out at this stage.


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2022)

Due to a whole bunch of events it really hasnt taken that long for us to go from a picture where we assumed the WWE would still remain a McMahon family affair after Vince, to one where it feels like the end of that era looms. This didnt really dawn on me until the seriousness of HHH's heart condition became apparent, coupled with learning that the economics of television deals makes a sale of the company a realistic prospect. So things like Steph leaving just underlines what was already becoming apparent in terms of no carefully crafted McMahon succession.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 17, 2022)

But ultimately it's an internal investigation, so it's got about as much trust as Boris Johnson being investigated by the Tories for lying to Parliament. Nothing will come of it.


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2022)

cybershot said:


> But ultimately it's an internal investigation, so it's got about as much trust as Boris Johnson being investigated by the Tories for lying to Parliament. Nothing will come of it.


Well I was already out of date when I wrote my previous posts....

Vince has stepped back as CEO and Stephanie McMahon has been appointed interim CEO!!!!

Things can come of this shit despite the investigation being internal because they are a publicly listed company with loads of deals with other corporations and this story was huge in the business press. McMahon still has a majority of voting rights but this doesnt give him complete protection from the fallout that bad publicity can cause.


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2022)

Whatever happens to individuals, at a minimum I expect they'll have to drag their corporate culture towards something that at least resembles current norms.



> “WWE and its board of directors take all allegations of misconduct very seriously,” the firm said. “The independent directors of the board engaged independent legal counsel to assist them with an independent review. In addition, the special committee and WWE will work with an independent third-party to conduct a comprehensive review of the company’s compliance program, HR function and overall culture.”











						WWE’s Vince McMahon Steps Back From CEO, Chair Roles Amid Probe Into Alleged Misconduct, Daughter Stephanie Named Interim CEO
					

"McMahon will retain his role and responsibilities related to WWE’s creative content during this period and remains committed to cooperating with the review underway."




					www.hollywoodreporter.com


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2022)

I'm certainly more than tempted to now see the various changes to Stephanies status in recent months as part of a power struggle or at least internal conflict about how to deal with the allegations.

Most business press articles arent available to me as Im not going to subscribe to those publications, but this one is available and quotes just enough to cover the previous backstory I mentioned earlier:









						Vince McMahon shakes up exec leadership at WWE
					

WWE Chief Brand Officer Stephanie McMahon recently said she was taking a leave of absence to focus on her family, and now she is “being replaced in her corporate role."




					www.sportsbusinessjournal.com
				






> WWE Chief Brand Officer STEPHANIE MCMAHON recently said she was taking a leave of absence to focus on her family, and now she is “being replaced in her corporate role as part of a shakeup” executed by her father and WWE CEO VINCE MCMAHON, according to Claire Atkinson of BUSINESS INSIDER.



With the quote from an insider burying her performance in that role, a statement that was likely sanctioned by Vince:



> "We weren't seeing that growth. When someone is moved out of a company, it's usually the result of something not working. We took stronger control of that a few months ago."



And now just a short time later she is interim CEO, lol. Granted she was still on the board throughout this entire period, never left that role, but thats still quite the turnaround which implies to me that there has been a recent change of fortunes when it comes to who has the upper hand in a power struggle behind the scenes. At least this one wont be settled via dodgy McMahon family feud TV storylines culminating in a wrestling match with silly stipulations.

Other possibilities are available I suppose. eg Vince may original have wanted to handle the matter in an especially shit way. Stephanie might have been pissed off about that or the nature of the allegations, and they had a temporary spat that has now been resolved with Vince backing down and Stephanie returning to do the whitewash job for him. But even under that scenario there could be further twists, unintended consequences or double-crosses, or there may at least be some strings attached.

The minimum I want out of this is for John Laurinaitis to be gone, for Vince McMahon to be gone or at least restrained, for the culture to be improved, and for the demise of other long term McMahon right-hand men like Kevin Dunn to be hastened.


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2022)

Unless they are forced into a late rethink, sounds like they are going to exploit it for at least one ratings boost....


----------



## elbows (Jun 21, 2022)

So McMahon keeps booking himself for brief appearances on the TV shows so he can bask in crowd adulation. I watched a few minutes and quickly remembered that it isnt just the scummy ethics and commentary that will keep me away from WWE, but also the ridiculous quantity of camera movement and switching, which seems even more absurd after some years away from seeing any of their product.

Laurinaitis placed on administrative lead, Bruce Pritchard interim head of talent relations.


----------



## elbows (Jun 26, 2022)

After my earlier rant I was pleased to hear that at least a journalist bothered to ask if AEW had a wellness policy during a recent press conference call with Tony Khan. He said they do but there was no real detail for me to go on about.

I'm looking forward to the pay per view tonight. I'd be looking forward to it more if I'd kept watching NJPW, if the pandemic hadnt disrupted their momentum, and if the buildup hadnt been so rushed. Not only did they have much less time than normal to promote it, but plenty of NJPW participants werent available to be on AEWs weekly tv shows until recently, And of course there has been a lot of disruption due to injuries. Including some further last minute changes due to Hiromu Takahashi not being allowed to travel due to fever, and Ishii being injured. I wasnt a huge fan of them having to resort to several ridiculously massive brawls on TV to try to promote things, I hope the booking improves again once this show is out of the way.

And of course Bryan Danielson not being cleared to wrestle is a huge shame for this event, and also more generally worrying due to his concussion history. I wonder who his mystery replacement will turn out to be.  I had no idea because I hadnt kept up with what brilliant technical wrestlers are free agents/left WWE, but I failed to resist temptation and so did go looking for rumours last night. Wont repeat them here in case it spoils it for anybody who would rather be totally surprised.

I see the slowly built, long burn Christian heel turn (mostly via facial expressions) finally came to fruition, and he upped his game on the promo front. Although I do groan when real deaths are used for cheap heat, and when babyfaces are booked to look stupid (Luchasaurus, well at least dinosaurs arent supposed to have big brains). Such WWE things to do, but also part of wrestling in general so I suppose I have to live with such things, just hope they dont become too frequent in AEW.

Actually now the Christian thing is done Im struggling to think of any other slowly built stuff that we were supposed to see coming over a long period is left in AEW storylines at the moment. But maybe I've forgotten something.

Some people moaned about how big AEWs roster is but the rather large number of injuries in recent times means its a good thing they had that sort of depth to the roster. I think Jungle Boy is the latest legit injury. Shoulder apparently, quite possibly from the ladder match. AEW dont like to go into much detail about injuries though, so I dont know how bad it is.


----------



## bromley (Jun 27, 2022)

Other long term storylines are Kenny Omega leaving and a hint of him not taking Adam Cole seriously. 

Yeah the surprised entrance of an NJPW superstar to assist in a brawl got tiresome. The language barrier was definitely a major issue. 

Real deaths are the cheapest heat going, can't stand it.


----------



## elbows (Jul 22, 2022)

So McMahon has announced his retirement rather than face being fully pushed out due to the continuing story of sexual misconduct. Still majority shareholder right now though.

Due to the structure of the wrestling business, I guess this is the biggest wrestling industry news ever, although there have been some big ones in the past too.


----------



## bromley (Jul 22, 2022)

Got a feeling something _not great _may have forced this. Interesting times.


----------



## elbows (Jul 22, 2022)

bromley said:


> Got a feeling something _not great _may have forced this. Interesting times.



Well I didnt post about it here but there had already been a followup WSJ story that exposed further payouts, and there were also some even more serious allegations from the past that came back in more detail as a result of these other stories coming out. Whether we are about to hear about even more stuff I cannot say.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jul 22, 2022)

Well, blimey.

Been coming for a while, but also seemed like he'd hang for ages yet. Less so in the past few weeks, of course...


----------



## bromley (Jul 22, 2022)

elbows said:


> Well I didnt post about it here but there had already been a followup WSJ story that exposed further payouts, and there were also some even more serious allegations from the past that came back in more detail as a result of these other stories coming out. Whether we are about to hear about even more stuff I cannot say.


I meant even more stuff. He's been on TV after the above has come out showing zero shits.


----------



## elbows (Jul 22, 2022)

bromley said:


> I meant even more stuff. He's been on TV after the above has come out showing zero shits.



His bravado was not a reliable guide, given the internal WWE investigation could easily have found enough to make his role untenable, let alone pressure from other external parties or from further revelations going public.


----------



## elbows (Jul 23, 2022)

I always expect to groan when reading mainstream media coveage of wrestling, but I still feel the need to moan at the BBC for this:









						WWE chief McMahon retires amid sexual misconduct allegations
					

Vince McMahon led the wrestling firm for decades but this year faced sexual misconduct allegations.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				






> He stepped down from his roles in WWE last month following reports he paid millions to suppress allegations of sexual misconduct and infidelity.



No, he was sidelined from his CEO role but he was still in charge of creative and tearing up show scripts and micromanaging everything and sitting at the gorilla position and shouting into the ears of the commentators. Thats why the announcement of his retirement from that stuff is so significant now, as opposed to what was announced week ago.



> When he purchased the then World Wrestling Federation from his father in 1982, matches took place in small venues and its rare television broadcasts were limited to local US cable channels.



Yes there is a massive difference between what was built nationally and globally in the WWF and WWE era, and the wrestling business in the territory days. But theres no need to diminish the territory days to this ridiculous extent, WWWF had New York in its territory and still ran arena shows every month, with Madison Square Garden often their prime 'home' venue, and there were periods in the 1970s when their business was very hot with big crowds and famous, beloved babyface champions like Bruno Sammartino.


----------



## elbows (Jul 26, 2022)

So HHH is officially now the head of creative. Funny how quickly my post some weeks ago about how the old presumptions fell apart in regards the future of the company staying 'in the family' became totally out of date and a poor guide as to what actually happened next, and those old presumptions had merit after all, despite HHHs serious health problem and Stephanie briefly leaving.

It also came out today that McMahon resigned rather than retired, and that the timing was prompted by SEC & federal authorities probing company accounts reporting/filing in regards the hush payments. WWE are now saying they will have to reissue various accounting reports, and that McMahon will be paying back a bunch of money. Right now its unclear quite how this squares with the previous line that McMahon had made those payments out of his own money, there is some confusion language and some kind of contradictions in todays statements so I'm waiting for that detail to become clearer.

In terms of how quickly WWEs tv will improve now that McMahon is out, apparently the commentary already improved, because he is no longer there to shout in their ears and the stupid list of banned words and ridiculous alternative phrases is already toast. And creative should become better and more consistent under HHH. The other change I will need to happen before I could start watching again is that they need to get rid of the insane number and pacing of camera cuts, zooms etc, which probably means they need to get rid of Kevin Dunn as tv director, or at least force him to change his ways.


----------



## bromley (Jul 26, 2022)

If WWE creative is similar to NXT booking circa 2014-2016 we're in for a great time!


----------



## elbows (Aug 9, 2022)

I dont think HHH would book the main WWE shows like he booked NXT, because he had a particular vision in regards the role of NXT that wont be the same as the main roster. However he could still incorporate plenty of the decent aspects, and anything has to be an improvement over McMahon. Because of how narrow McMahon was, not helped by his memory issues in recent years which apparently caused him not to realise how often he was repeating the same storylines or contradicting plot direction and character evolution.

I see it has emerged that they fired Laurinaitis recently but kept it quiet. Good riddance.

Things have been so quiet on the MJF front that we can perhaps discard the most simplistic of the 'it was all a work' or 'it was a shoot that seamlessly got turned into a work and now all is well' possibilities. If it was the latter and they wanted to do something similar to the Pilman loose cannon gimmick, then they needed to maintain some momentum and intrigue rater than let everything go cold for a protracted period. I dont think I've got any way to predict what the eventual outcome will be, whether they eventually carry on as originally anticipated or whether there is an impasse thats hard to overcome or whether he leaves to pursue opportunities outside wrestling or in WWE. Certainly the big changes in WWE as a result of the end of McMahon are already leading to more speculation about that.


----------



## bromley (Aug 9, 2022)

Since HHH became head of booking Ciampa won two matches on Raw to become the number one contender for the US title. Karrion Kross (amazing talent, tickets every box, as does BIG E but I digress) has returned and attacked a main eventer in Drew McIntyre. These are the type of things I was hoping for.

I believe MJF is a work. They're doing it properly by keeping things quiet.


----------



## elbows (Aug 9, 2022)

bromley said:


> Since HHH became head of booking Ciampa won two matches on Raw to become the number one contender for the US title. Karrion Kross (amazing talent, tickets every box, as does BIG E but I digress) has returned and attacked a main eventer in Drew McIntyre. These are the type of things I was hoping for.
> 
> I believe MJF is a work. They're doing it properly by keeping things quiet.



Yeah those are completely fair enough things to hope for when it comes to the HHH creative era of the main roster. I would expect the main roster to retain a different mix of 'sports entertainment' and wrestling than NXT had at its peak, but that still leaves plenty of room for the right people to be pushed at the right time, and for decent wrestling to be valued. And the very least we can expect is that they will actually manage to make some new top level stars in a way that McMahon had become completely incapable of for years.

As for the MJF stuff, only time will tell I guess. Its certainly still possible that its now a work and that they have a plan for the timing of the next phase of the storyline that means they can afford for it to go completely cold at the moment. But other eventualities are also plausible. How long will there need to be complete silence on the MJF front before the other possibilities start to seem more likely? For me I suspect if he doesnt return in the autumn then something else is up.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 10, 2022)

And now lumis is back.


----------



## bromley (Aug 11, 2022)

The US title which had been someone what forgotten meant something on Raw this week. Also Owens acted like his old NXT self and hopefully ended an awful angle that the participant was doing a good job of making chicken salad out of.  Owens did so wearing a Dusty Rhodes t-shirt and Ciampa entered the US title match in a Harley Race robe. 

All very promising stuff but you can never do a decent 3 hour show each week. 2 hours is perfect (thank you Eric Bischoff)


----------



## elbows (Aug 17, 2022)




----------



## bromley (Aug 17, 2022)




----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2022)

That video is showing as unavailable, what was it?


----------



## elbows (Aug 18, 2022)

Dickhead C M Punk went into business for himself by cutting a promo on hangman Adam Page that isnt anything to do with any current/upcoming feud. It takes a certain sort of wanker to call someone out and then call them a coward when they dont come out, when there is no way they were going to come to the ring because they werent scheduled to come out and you are supposed to be out there promoting a totally different match.

Bret Hart was sometimes accused of being a mark for himself and taking the business, belts etc too seriously, but in some respects I suspect Punk is worse. Grubby, insecure, slippery fucker. Or at the very least, bloody unprofessional, which isnt something I'd ever accuse Bret of being.


----------



## strung out (Aug 18, 2022)

It felt like pretty standard heel work from CM Punk to be honest. They obviously had unfinished business from when Page cut the promo about having to protect AEW from Punk back in May, and presumably it's getting picked back up again after Punk was injured soon after taking the title. 

I'm guessing it's building to a rematch at All Out in a few weeks time, or shortly after, given they're unifying the title on Dynamite next week.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2022)

strung out said:


> It felt like pretty standard heel work from CM Punk to be honest. They obviously had unfinished business from when Page cut the promo about having to protect AEW from Punk back in May, and presumably it's getting picked back up again after Punk was injured soon after taking the title.
> 
> I'm guessing it's building to a rematch at All Out in a few weeks time, or shortly after, given they're unifying the title on Dynamite next week.


For fans watching the show it was logical for them to think it was a normal part of that sort of plan but all the news reporting says that match was not part of the upcoming booking plans and AEW were totally caught off guard by what Punk said. Which is why its unprofessional to do that shit, because it increases backstage tension and fans will make assumptions about what it means that dont actually reflect the way the storylines and matches are supposed to unfold in the weeks ahead. And normal heel and face booking doesnt involve the heel being able to call the face a coward for not coming out, usually the babyface should come out or at least there should be a reason the audience knows about to explain why the babyface cant come straight to the ring under those circumstances.

Of course AEW could now adjust their plans to try to turn this into an opportunity. Although that might not be the best idea if there is too much real world heat between Punk and Page that needs to cool off. And AEW plans have certainly changed recently in other regards, since the title unification match with Moxley was originally supposed to happen at the next ppv in Punks hometown, but has now been moved forward to next weeks tv instead. But that decision happened before Punks unscheduled promo on Page, so they didnt make that change in response to it.

It sounds like the real story is that Punk was pissed off by something Page said in one of his promos during their title feud, and has been waiting for months to get his own back. And now additional stories are emerging about how Punk had a meeting about that at the time Page said something he didnt like, and then told people he wouldnt lose to Page in that match. And that he has often been unhappy backstage and has been vocal about it, to the point of some wondering whether he would leave AEW.

I know promotions need their biggest stars to hang around, but Id rather they were in a position to call peoples bluff on this stuff and just get rid of them/let them walk if they are really that unhappy. But in this particular case I am biased because I've never liked Punk as a human, I always got bad vibes off him even though I freely admit this is a superficial judgement since I've obviously never had the opportunity to actually know him in real life. If he is really insincere in real life then that might explain what Page said in particular in some of his promos that upset Punk and got to him quite deeply.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2022)

I suppose much like some of the MJF stuff, only time will tell whether this is AEW trying to blur the lines between truth and fiction to build interest, leading journalists on a dance along the way, or whether its straightforward real world shit that ends up hampering rather than furthering storylines.

With the Punk Page stuff I'm not convinced that their feud was originally scheduled to continue after their first title match, with only Punks injury then scuppered that plan. Theres a plausible version of reality where the real world issues between them meant the promotion was keen to end the storyline feud once Punk won the title, and then have Punk work with other people instead. A degree of trust between the performers is vital for wrestling and its a pain in the arse when such trust breaks down during a program. I guess in this case we will get to find out based on what happens in the coming weeks, we wont have to wait as long as its taking to get to the bottom of the realities of whats going on with MJF.

Since I dont like Punk, and its not the sort of dislike that I can channel into my enjoyment of the show, I'm hoping the fact the title unification match has been moved forwards could be a sign that Punk isnt going to win that match, and may be fucking off afterwards. But I'm certainly not banking on that happening or strongly predicting it. But I certainly dont like reading about performers making unprofessional backstage threats to no-show events, that shit doesnt increase my sense of anticipation, suspense and surprise, it just makes me want them to have their bluff called and fuck off.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2022)

MJF news from the wrestling observer newsletter:



> "MJF is currently scheduled to be returning somewhat soon. We don’t know the exact time but the negotiations for a new TV deal will likely be taking place starting in just a few months and into the spring, so the TV ratings numbers probably September to whenever the deal is closed are the most important to date so this recent drop is the worst time to have a drop," Meltzer wrote.











						MJF expected back in AEW 'somewhat soon'
					

He has been gone from the promotion since the June 1 edition of Dynamite.




					www.f4wonline.com
				




And sorry for the recent longwinded posts and rants. Had a migraine this week which sent my brain out of kilter. Despite my rants here, I am mostly still just enjoying the weekly tv shows for what they are, and will try harder not to overthink shit.


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## strung out (Aug 19, 2022)

elbows said:


> I suppose much like some of the MJF stuff, only time will tell whether this is AEW trying to blur the lines between truth and fiction to build interest, leading journalists on a dance along the way, or whether its straightforward real world shit that ends up hampering rather than furthering storylines.
> 
> With the Punk Page stuff I'm not convinced that their feud was originally scheduled to continue after their first title match, with only Punks injury then scuppered that plan. Theres a plausible version of reality where the real world issues between them meant the promotion was keen to end the storyline feud once Punk won the title, and then have Punk work with other people instead. A degree of trust between the performers is vital for wrestling and its a pain in the arse when such trust breaks down during a program. I guess in this case we will get to find out based on what happens in the coming weeks, we wont have to wait as long as its taking to get to the bottom of the realities of whats going on with MJF.
> 
> Since I dont like Punk, and its not the sort of dislike that I can channel into my enjoyment of the show, I'm hoping the fact the title unification match has been moved forwards could be a sign that Punk isnt going to win that match, and may be fucking off afterwards. But I'm certainly not banking on that happening or strongly predicting it. But I certainly dont like reading about performers making unprofessional backstage threats to no-show events, that shit doesnt increase my sense of anticipation, suspense and surprise, it just makes me want them to have their bluff called and fuck off.


I think you're getting worked. 

This is a heel turn that's been getting telegraphed ever since Punk joined AEW, and given they'd clearly decided to move the unification bout forward a couple of weeks prior to all of this kicking off, I'm guessing the plan has always been to work an Adam Page angle into the upcoming PPV.

I could be completely wrong of course, I've not been a wrestling fan for very long so perhaps I'm putting too much faith in the work. 

Fwiw, my wife worked with lots of WWE talent between 2009 and 2013, and said that Punk was by far the kindest and most genuine of the lot, especially compared to the 90s stars.


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## elbows (Aug 19, 2022)

I wont accept I'm getting worked until it is properly demonstrated to be the case, because Im not coming up with this stuff on my own and so it would also mean that specific wrestling journalists who have a track record of not getting worked, stretching back decades, are also being worked by AEW. Its not impossible that this is the case, but I'll need to see it demonstrated to my satisfaction before I can believe it, in which case I will change how I interpret their reporting of backstage AEW stuff in future.

But more broadly you are not wrong to think that its considered something of a coup if a promotion manages to convince more fans and journalists than usual that something fake is real, if the lines can be blurred in a way that generates business and garners attention and excitement for a particular feud. And its possible that I've become too complacent about that because in some ways there wasnt so much room to judge wrongly about this stuff in recent decades, it wasnt so hard for journalists and well informed fans to spot the difference. Maybe AEW has managed to upset the applecart on this front, or that they have at the very least managed to leave more room for uncertainty about what is true and what is a work than existed during the period where WWE was stagnant and without significant competition, and where their less significant competition such as TNA were usually deeply incompetent. 

And the nature of the business means that there will be occasions where some doubts remain, where we never really know whether something was a work from start to finish, or a shoot that quickly turned into a work, or some other variation. We might be waiting a long time to find out what the full story was with MJF for example, that one is a bit blurry. But its also worth keeping in mind that even in the most straightforward cases where there isnt actually much reasonable doubt left, there will always be some who stick to a contrary opinion for decades despite what people in the know who were actually involved eventually reveal. And that includes some opinions of some of the wrestlers themselves. The Bret Hart screw job is a good example of that, its pretty well established that it was a shoot, that Vince McMahon screwed Bret due to circumstances at the time and the way McMahon did his business. But to this day you'll still find some people who suspect it was all a work. 

In terms of what individual wrestlers are like, I'll accept that people can be complex and contradictory and different people will see different sides to people depending on circumstances. And yeah, the business is still a bit dodgy but previous generations of wrestlers who were active for example in the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's were a whole other level of ugly - it was a shit business with lots of really terrible characters involved, a bad culture generally with all sorts of exploitation and horrors that were normalised. If I moan about some individuals in the generations that came later, in most cases they are still incomparable to the worst shits of the previous eras, largely because of the normalisation of really bad shit and what previous generations were able to get away with for very long periods of time as a result. There are still some dickheads and some obvious power imbalances, but they often dont get to fester unchallenged for so long these days.

Besides, even if Punk is a reasonable person then he could still end up behaving in a manner I'll complain about if he finds himself in circumstances at work that make him unhappy and stressed. People arent usually at their best under those conditions and may try to throw their weight around. Maybe thats what happened this time, and I'm then more likely to hear about it in the press if he rubs people backstage up the wrong way repeatedly as a result and they choose to speak out about his behaviour or brief journalists as a result. Chuck in a backdrop of some AEW originals maybe resenting big players from other companies coming in and taking top spots, and the backstage political scene is set for occasionally ugly episodes.

Probably the worst glimpse of Punk being a shithead that the public have had involved what happened between him and Colt Cobana. As usual its dangerous to assume we know the whole story, but what we could see was not a great look for Punk at all. Indeed one of the theories about what Page said during his title feud with Punk that upset Punk involved a reference to the Cobana situation.


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## bromley (Aug 22, 2022)

elbows said:


> That video is showing as unavailable, what was it?











						Let's Not Forget When Macho Man Randy Savage Had The Perfect Response When Asked If He's Ever Cried | Digg
					

This clip from "The Arsenio Hall" show from 1992 is going viral and we absolutely approve. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable.




					digg.com
				




I asked on another forum what the Punk Page thing was about, utterly bizarre. He does seem to be an enormous prick in real life. It didn't feel like part of the show and I'm edging towards it being a shoot unlike the MJF angle. I did find the snow angels funny though! 

With Hart I remember him going in to business for himself (IMO) when in a wheelchair at the end of Raw. Kept babbling on not giving HBK the cue for the Sweet Chin Music to end the show.


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## bromley (Aug 23, 2022)

Gargano appeared on Raw so that's another mystery resolved. Thanks HHH!


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## elbows (Aug 24, 2022)

bromley said:


> Let's Not Forget When Macho Man Randy Savage Had The Perfect Response When Asked If He's Ever Cried | Digg
> 
> 
> This clip from "The Arsenio Hall" show from 1992 is going viral and we absolutely approve. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable.
> ...



Yeah I watched the Punk thing again and I'm even more sure that it was him going into business for himself and trying to settle backstage scores in front of the audience, pathetic.

Journalists havent been able to add much more to the previous picture but they've clearly been told about backstage tensions and the likes of Meltzer think there needs to be some kind of meeting to try to clear the air. Colt Cabana, who was popular backstage, being dropped from shows, tc and the dark order without any storyline explanation may well have contributed, although Tony Khan then took a little bit of the heat out of that by giving him a job in ROH instead.

I expect they will try to make Punk happy because he is one of their very biggest stars, and I dont yet have an opinion on whether Tony Khan is going to turn out to be skilled at dealing with this sort of politics in the business. I wont really be surprised if AEW make some mistakes while chasing ratings in the crucial upcoming period, and I usually dont have much trouble finding reasons to moan about the influence that the need to complete vital tv deal negotiations can have on the business. Especially given that sometimes even when a show is popular with viewers, it doesnt always make a huge difference to ratings, it can be real hard to get beyond a certain level of viewership for all sorts of reasons these days.


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## elbows (Aug 24, 2022)

bromley said:


> Gargano appeared on Raw so that's another mystery resolved. Thanks HHH!



Im glad people are getting some of what they want on WWE these days. It will be some time before I'll consider giving it another go myself, but in the meantime I'll be happy to hear from people that do watch some WWE stuff as to how much they think its improving.


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## strung out (Aug 24, 2022)

In the latest BTE video, filmed on the night of the CM Punk promo, Dark Order and Adam Page made a clear jokey reference to CM Punk calling him out on stage (a backstage member of staff bursts into their dressing room saying that Adam Page is urgently needed on stage, but they kick him out because they're having an 'important' conversation), so I'm even more convinced it's a work now.


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## elbows (Aug 24, 2022)

Nah, part of the lifeblood of BTE is to make jokey references to insider stuff that smart fans have found out about. So such references and acknowledgements on that show are not proof of where storylines were booked to go, although they do of course include some storyline stuff in there too, and there is always a chance that storylines will be changed in future to reflect what happened.

The best guide as to the fact Punks comments were a shoot was the substance of the way he did it - his dismissive choice of words in blowing Page off as unimportant stuff, his reference to the sort of apology he seems to think he deserves from Page, and the very simple fact that you do not book babyfaces to be cowards who dont come out for a title opportunity when one is suddenly handed to you on a plate. And the fact the commentators during the segment were totally caught off guard by what Punk said and then had to scramble around trying to plant the seeds of an explanation for why Page didnt come out, rather than talk up any deliberate, scheduled 'storyline heat' between them. Punk was out there to do the stuff with Moxley, thats what they were supposed to be promoting that night, thats where all the focus was supposed to be, everything else was him going into business for himself in a totally unprofessional manner, likely also including his digs at Eddie Kingston. Having a reputation for his wrestling character 'dropping pipe bombs' is something he can try to use to justify saying that sort of off-message shit but thats a crap excuse, although it did then happen to make it funnier for me when Moxley was then taking the piss out of his pipe bomb reputation minutes later.


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## bromley (Aug 24, 2022)

They're giving away Moxley v Punk on TV which could be a mistake?

I think Khan is going to listen to Punk more than he should. Could lead to some 'That doesn't work for me brother' moments for a person who sees himself above Eric Bischoff...


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## bromley (Aug 24, 2022)

After NXT heatwave ended with the NXT:UK champion came out before hus first round match had aired. This week's had the annoucement that NXT:UK is being replaced with NXT Europe, surprise! Good luck to the Semi-finalists this week!


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## cybershot (Aug 26, 2022)

bromley said:


> After NXT heatwave ended with the NXT:UK champion came out before hus first round match had aired. This week's had the annoucement that NXT:UK is being replaced with NXT Europe, surprise! Good luck to the Semi-finalists this week!


Quite a lot of the NXT UK talent have been released.


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## bromley (Aug 30, 2022)

Seems AEW is in a mess. Cody leaving, the punk shoot thing. The last rating of Dynamite for a unification _match _drew less than a million viewers. Making Tony's WCW comments look rather silly.


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## strung out (Aug 30, 2022)

bromley said:


> Seems AEW is in a mess. Cody leaving, the punk shoot thing. The last rating of Dynamite for a unification _match _drew less than a million viewers. Making Tony's WCW comments look rather silly.


?

It had over a million viewers, its highest ratings since February.


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## elbows (Aug 30, 2022)

Which WCW comments? I think he's made more than one set of WCW comments over the years. Plenty of them were about booking, about not burning through all the major feuds on tv quickly with awful finishes like WCW became notorious for. AEW is still fine on the booking front, they dont often make those sorts of mistakes.

I wouldnt expect a large wrestling promotion to exist for many years without any backstage drama and certain issues rearing their ugly head, just like I wouldnt expect all wrestlers to be happy with their place on the card and all of their colleagues all of the time. But there is a big difference between those things occasionally coming to public attention, and the sort of prolonged utter business-killing disaster that was WCW in its final years. People will sometimes get into disputes, and then we get to see whether management can handle situations appropriately rather than pouring fuel on the flames. I still havent reached a conclusion about Tony Khan yet, he has annoyed a few people under contract so far and it doesnt sound like he communicated properly with some whose contracts he decided not to renew, so I wont be giving him 10 out of 10, but compared to most wrestling promoters he still seems fine overall. This doesnt mean he can bypass all the locker room politics of the business with ease, some key superstar wrestlers will inevitably have more power than people lower down the card, occasionally leading to situations that leave a bad taste in some peoples mouths. And then people like me will moan about it, like I did about C M Punk recently. Doesnt mean the business is doomed.

AEW had a rather long honeymoon period, which has clearly been over for a while now. They dont get everything right, and there will probably be some challenges to growing their business. And it was probably much easier to maintain a united front when they were in the ascendency and mostly everyone on the roster was part of the original foundation crew. Also now that Vince McMahon and his stupid quirks are out of the way at WWE, that company is probably a more attractive potential destination for a greater number of wrestlers than it once was, including some who currently have AEW contracts.

So long as its not a complete ongoing disaster or a permanently chaotic mess, the business, the fans and the wrestlers can actually benefit from a certain degree of conflict and the occasional shock. Wrestlers getting dissatisfied and moving to the other major promotion used to keep wrestling fresh back when there were two major promotions in the WCW days, and before that in the territory days, and the loss of all that harmed the business. And competition certainly helps wrestlers negotiate better pay. And a proportion of fans love hearing about backstage shit and speculating about the truth of the matter and what might happen as a result of genuine animosity between individuals.


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## elbows (Aug 30, 2022)

If I want to make a criticism of the booking during the current pay-per-view cycle, I prefer it when they announce the full card further in advance than has happened this time. eg looks like they're leaving it till the Wednesday before the ppv before confirming the title rematch.


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## bromley (Aug 30, 2022)

Just


strung out said:


> ?
> 
> It had over a million viewers, its highest ratings since February.


Apologies, just over a million. a 9.6% increase on the previous week. Not great.


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## strung out (Aug 30, 2022)

bromley said:


> Just
> 
> Apologies, just over a million. a 9.6% increase on the previous week. Not great.


It was their third highest rating since last September when CM Punk returned. Hardly on a downward curve.


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## bromley (Aug 31, 2022)

strung out said:


> It was their third highest rating since last September when CM Punk returned. Hardly on a downward curve.


Not a downward curve, but not the boost giving a PPV main event on free TV should have had to ratings. It's a disappointing number.


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## elbows (Aug 31, 2022)

But where do such assumptions about what ratings should do, about what their growth potential should be, come from?

Ratings are complex, they are affected by what else is on tv and the age of the biggest audiences for a particular show, and the way viewing habits in general have changed over the years.

The story I would tell about AEW ratings isnt that those particular ratings were bad, its that there are very clear limits to how much it is reasonable to think their business might grow, at least when measured in this way. Any sense that there was going to be a simple picture where AEW kept growing and WWE kept declining has long since been shown to be false, that trend stopped quite some time ago.

I've found wrestling ratings in general to be quite depressing this century, rarely do they tell a story I can get excited about. And they often show a rather old audience that doesnt interest advertisers etc. TV channels in the USA have other uses for wrestling, such as allowing their channels to make big claims about their overall viewing figures on a particular night versus the competition, and wrestling has benefitted from how hot a tv property 'live sports' are considered to be in this era, via factors such as tv companeis paying huge money for sports rights as these programmes are assumed to be 'DVR-proof'. 

I wish I didnt have to care about any of that stuff or ratings at all. I end up having to care because the tv deals that are made dictate how sustainable a particular wrestling company is going to be in future, how good a roster they can afford to have, etc. But I'd much prefer to judge a particular promotion based on how much buzz there was about the shows, how big the crowds were at the televised shows, how loud and enthusiastic that audience was, etc. Even the number of google searches for particular terms and level of social media attention various storylines get could be considered to be more meaningful than ratings in some ways these days.


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## bromley (Aug 31, 2022)

There isn't a science to it. Khan is claiming it's was a great success, whereas the company who's mistakes he won't repeat received a 17% in ratings for the foolish error of giving Hogan Goldberg away on TNT. It's not comparing apples to apples with changes to viewing habits due to streaming services and what not, but that was a 17% increase on a big number and has been deemed by many (myself included) as a failure, so a 9.6% boost with no title match booked at the moment for their Saturday PPV and their biggest draw reinjured. You can draw your on conclusions.


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## elbows (Aug 31, 2022)

Well I should probably wait one more day so we know for sure what actually happens in the storylines on tonights show, but for now I'm under the impression that you may have gotten entirely the wrong end of the stick...

It was a storyline injury, the match on tv last week was supposed to be that short, the finish you saw was the finish that was planned. Its supposed to be part of telling a certain story in regards them then having another match together at the pay per view, and Punks 'injury' last week will play into the style and storyline of that next match. Its supposed to build interest for that show, not something that sacrificed pay per view buys in a shortsighted attempt to hotshot boost tv ratings for one week only.


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## strung out (Aug 31, 2022)

bromley said:


> There isn't a science to it. Khan is claiming it's was a great success, whereas the company who's mistakes he won't repeat received a 17% in ratings for the foolish error of giving Hogan Goldberg away on TNT. It's not comparing apples to apples with changes to viewing habits due to streaming services and what not, but that was a 17% increase on a big number and has been deemed by many (myself included) as a failure, so a 9.6% boost with no title match booked at the moment for their Saturday PPV and their biggest draw reinjured. You can draw your on conclusions.


I don't think CM Punk is really reinjured. It's almost guaranteed there will be some kind of rematch with Mox at the PPV.


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## elbows (Aug 31, 2022)

To be fair it was a very well done injury angle, and making the match that short threw people off their usual template expectations.

My only complaint is that I'd have preferred if the overarching storyline timing could have been different, to allow more weeks between that match/'injury' and Punks next attempt.


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## bromley (Sep 1, 2022)

Urgh, you were both correct.

Look at the comments on the Facebook page.



Note to self: The Monday showing on ITV4 is the rerun from the previous week. 🤦🏻‍♂️They also didn't show Rampage as they wanted to rerun demolition man. 🤨


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## elbows (Sep 3, 2022)

bromley said:


> Look at the comments on the Facebook page.



Not sure what I really learn from wrestling social media comments but I had a look anyway. Some people hate Punk. Some hate the idea of Moxley losing the title. Some want to complain about the booking. Some want to predict a Punk heel turn, perhaps incorporating the return of MJF. Some wanted to take the piss out of a previously unmentioned bloke turning up to be involved in the Punk angle, accidentally dropping a f bomb and stealing from the Rocky script. When I watched it I was distracted by Punk fat shaming someone in the audience after they tried to start a Colt Cabana chant.

Its not my favourite angle. I dont like Punk, I can usually find reasons to moan about the booking. But not enough to get in the way of my enjoyment of the shows. And what I go on about here is a bit different to what you'd hear from me if we were sitting on a couch watching the shows - there would be a lot more 'wow' comments from me about the in ring action, great matches and certain crazy moves if I were commentating on my experience of watching the show in realtime.

I hadnt thought about WWEs Clash at the Castle at all until just now, and now I think I may as well watch it since its on at a reasonable time, and I was at SummerSlam 30 years ago. I am some years out of date with WWE storylines and wrestlers so I'll not have a clue whats going on, but that will be a novelty in itself.


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## bromley (Sep 4, 2022)

I meant the comments at the top saying the angle was awful. The mind boggles, (in kayfabe) he got beat a week earlier in 3 minutes and now you have to pay to see how he does.

As for Clash at the Castle. I'm glad i didn't go. Sheamus v Gunter was fantastic but the main event and the singalong is what i'll remember most. More Summerslam '93 than '92.


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## cybershot (Sep 4, 2022)

Clash at the castle was disappointing from an event perspective. Tickets were ridiculously expensive at first. Dropped more and more closer to the event. Loyal fans ripped off as usual. Some people paying ridiculous prices for packages that could get you the whole wrestlemania weekend including flights.

I know there’s storylines to tell but I thought they my at least have given sheamus the ic title. Hell just give it back to gunther the following week on Smackdown (pretty much did the same to bulldog in 92, losing to michaels pretty much straight away) but at least give the fans something to remember. It felt like a forgettable  in your house show and no one will be talking about this event in 6 months time. Let alone 30 years. 

No doubt they will be back next year. They can probably make more money here than they do any other event in the US bar mania.

Just not sure where they would go other than Cardiff as nowhere else has a roof and British weather just too unpredictable. No one wants potentially obstructed view tickets because of having to cover the ring and the pillows that have to be put up to do that.


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## Ax^ (Sep 4, 2022)

looking at the news this morning they had the big Scot lose to reigns with shenanigans which killed the crowd

well done WWE


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## bromley (Sep 4, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Clash at the castle was disappointing from an event perspective. Tickets were ridiculously expensive at first. Dropped more and more closer to the event. Loyal fans ripped off as usual. Some people paying ridiculous prices for packages that could get you the whole wrestlemania weekend including flights.
> 
> I know there’s storylines to tell but I thought they my at least have given sheamus the ic title. Hell just give it back to gunther the following week on Smackdown (pretty much did the same to bulldog in 92, losing to michaels pretty much straight away) but at least give the fans something to remember. It felt like a forgettable  in your house show and no one will be talking about this event in 6 months time. Let alone 30 years.
> 
> ...


Sheamus jobbing was fine. Gunter needs the rub and there would have been Germans in the crowd. The hard hitting match, standing ovation got him over and was great.

The main event with Fury's involvement was a joke. There isn't a better time for Drew to win it. Fury shaking Reigns hand? Was that whole segemnt meant to be off air? Would have Drew win with Reigns going mental on Raw demanding a rematch. Perhaps have it on Smackdown or the next _premium live event _with the ending we had last night. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## elbows (Sep 4, 2022)

Yeah that was typical WWE booking, they havent changed in that respect yet. I dont know if they ever will, for decades now they havent really believed in giving the locals what they want in general, eg unlike some other promotions they dont often do the obvious, feel-good stuff when it comes to people winning in their 'hometown', they often go out of their way to do the opposite. And thats true all around the USA, not just when it comes to international shows.

It will be ironic if they do eventually change on that front, because that sort of spiteful booking has something on common with the way HHH was booked when he was being pushed as a wrestler. There were plenty of times he went over in a way that deflated the audience, eventually making people cynical about WWE booking in general. That stuff then festered and occasionally blew up years later when wrestlers who were clearly massively over never got sincerely pushed to the top, eg Danielson. And even on occasions where people like Rey Mysterio were given title runs, they werent given any credibility, they were undermined and treated as a joke, it was worse than not making them champion at all. Fan remain sensitive to that stuff and the likes of AEW ned to be careful, eg they made mistakes in misjudging the crowds when it came to, for example, the desire to see Kris Statlander put over at one stage when it seemed like it should have been her time.

I enjoyed watching the big arena atmosphere on tv but the show was quite a slog for me. It seems that even if WWE improve in many ways, their match style and pacing just doesnt align that well with my preferences any more, I'll probably be best off sticking with AEW even if AEW booking and buzz declines.

Also fucking Chris Benoit was trending on twitter last night because some 'edgy' cunt in the audience was wearing a horrific 'I'm a better dad than Chris Benoit' t-shirt and they accidentally showed him on camera during the sing-along. Sometimes I really hate wrestling fans.


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## elbows (Sep 4, 2022)

It does intrigue me as to the mechanics of why WWE style matches and production results in much better womens matches, I enjoyed that aspect of the show and AEW hasnt hit the right level with the womens division at all yet. Maybe its just the available talent in the respective promotions, or how the agents plan the matches, I dont know, I suspect there is something else to it as well but I havent come close to figuring it out.

No matter how long a break I take from WWE, am I always doomed to groan at ref bumps in the main event as soon as I tune in again?


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## cybershot (Sep 4, 2022)

elbows said:


> It does intrigue me as to the mechanics of why WWE style matches and production results in much better womens matches, I enjoyed that aspect of the show and AEW hasnt hit the right level with the womens division at all yet. Maybe its just the available talent in the respective promotions, or how the agents plan the matches, I dont know, I suspect there is something else to it as well but I havent come close to figuring it out.
> 
> No matter how long a break I take from WWE, am I always doomed to groan at ref bumps in the main event as soon as I tune in again?


I think Tyson Kidd takes a lot of the credit for the way WWE’s female matches go.


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## bromley (Sep 5, 2022)

I think WWE tries to do the unpredictable, which isn't always the best idea. They didn't try it at ECW one night stand.

In other news


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## strung out (Sep 5, 2022)

I owe you an apology elbows - it's pretty clear that the whole CM Punk / Adam Page stuff wasn't a work now.

The Punk tirade at the press conference last night seems like the release of a build up of tension on Punk's side going back a while. Hard to tell exactly who's culpable in this, but he clearly thinks that Page went into business for himself by trying to tie Colt Cabana being dropped from AEW down to RoH, to Punk demanding he be fired, in a face to face in-ring promo in the lead up to Double or Nothing.

Given Punk's history with Cabana and obvious desire to leave all of that in the past, I can see how having it implied via backstage gossip and in a face to face promo would seriously fuck him off, but it's hard to see how any of this will end well now after last night. Stories of confrontations backstage with the Young Bucks and all kinds of allegations about the passing on of rumours to press.

Shame, because it was a mostly a very good PPV, with some great matches. Highlights were the tag team title match, trios title match and the main belt, which they pulled off well, albeit the build up over the last 10 days was too rushed.


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## elbows (Sep 5, 2022)

Well that was a disaster, he could have gotten away with some of what he said but the way he criticised the EVPs went way over the line. And then after he left that press conference he got into a very ugly altercation with the Young Bucks and everything blew up horribly. He also expressed large amounts of frustration that various young wrestling talent hadnt been listening to his advice enough. Even some of the stuff he said about MJF wasnt quite a typical worked burial, even though it would be normal to do that now as they are now supposed to have a programme.

Some reports suggest that the Hangman promo which originally pissed Punk off months ago was the stuff about 'saving AEW from Punk'. Funnily enough the way Punk has gone about handing that recently almost makes Hangmans 'saving AEW' case for him, oops.

Fuck knows what will happen now. This is partly Tony Khans fault for trying to fudge things backstage recently instead of dealing with it more comprehensively after Punk first went into business for himself on tv. eg Khan called a meeting the other week but then didnt address this central conflict, so things continued to fester.

At the moment it seems like it will be tricky to resolve this conflict, and people are concerned that one side or the other will end up leaving. You can probably guess that I'd deal with it by getting rid of Punk if necessary, because if people from the other side leave then that involves a greater number of important people leaving. But both sides involve active champions and big names, so Khan will probably try to furge it again and this must be his greatest challenge in managing the promotion to date, by a long way. And I've got no predictions as to what will actually happen, or how quickly we'll get to hear much more detail.

I enjoyed the show. Christian got badly injured at some point before this show which is why his match with Jungle Boy wasnt a proper match.


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## elbows (Sep 5, 2022)

strung out said:


> I owe you an apology elbows - it's pretty clear that the whole CM Punk / Adam Page stuff wasn't a work now.


Cheers, you dont owe me an apology. This stuff isnt always easy to decode, not in this crazy wrestling business. I wouldnt get it right if I didnt have sections of the press to provide the right info.

And its certainly true that ideally, and quite often historically, they've tried to turn these real life conflicts into something that can become a work  and generate business further down the line. And that sort of thing inevitably makes people skeptical about what exactly was a work or a shoot in the first place. On this occasion some minor miracles will be required before any of this shit can be turned into business in the ring one day. I just hope it comes to a conclusion without AEW being significantly weakened.

If I was the promoter then my issue with resolving this situation in a way that appeases Punk is that I'd still never be able to trust Punk not to inject poison into the backstage political situation again in future. I prefer to nip things in the bud so there are no repeat cycles to worry about in future, even if that means losing a rather important member of the roster.


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## bromley (Sep 5, 2022)

The tag match was great. The Acclaimed are seriously over and will probably win the straps at the next ppv. WWE massively dropped the ball with Keith Lee and Swerve Strickland.

I agree that they need to get rid of Punk. In most walks of life if someone said what he said at a press conference they would be fired. I think he realises that Khan is a weak and he can get away with doing what he wants. Although it would be a loss the shine has come off of Punk and MJF is a far better talent.

Christian's injury could have been dealt with better...


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## elbows (Sep 5, 2022)

Yeah it was pretty hilarious just how over with the crowd the Acclaimed were and the whole scissors thing. They've apparently setup a rematch in front of their home crowd in New York so that should be hot.

Only further thing that seems to have emerged in regards the backstage confrontation is that Punk threw some punches, so if I needed a further excuse to get him the fuck out of there that would be it.


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## elbows (Sep 5, 2022)

Press paying attention to twitter for clues about where different wrestlers stand on Punk:



> On Twitter, Hardy shared a photo of himself with Omega and the Young Bucks and another one with Hangman Page with no caption.











						AEW star shows support for Young Bucks, Kenny Omega and Hangman Page following CM Punk’s heated comments
					

AEW’s Matt Hardy has shown support for several top stars following CM Punk’s rant about them at the post-AEW All Out media scrum.  Punk voiced his frustrations




					wrestlingnews.co
				






> After Punk's comments during the AEW All Out media scrum, Owens tweeted a photo of himself from his match with Stone Cold Steve Austin at WrestleMania, which is the match that Punk tried to get many years ago. He did not mention Punk by name but the timing of the photo comes across as a reaction to Punk's comments in the media scrum. Owens is also good friends with The Young Bucks.











						Konnan's podcast producer explains the real-life heat between Kevin Owens and CM Punk
					

On the latest "Keepin' It 100 with Konnan" podcast, Producer Joe Feeney gave a brief recap of what caused the issues between Owens and Punk when they were both




					wrestlingnews.co


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## bromley (Sep 5, 2022)




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## bromley (Sep 5, 2022)

elbows said:


> Press paying attention to twitter for clues about where different wrestlers stand on Punk:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bobby Fish's mocking of the head kicks is why I thought it was a legit injury.


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## elbows (Sep 5, 2022)

Ah, I think he was just mocking the technique and how bad he thought the kick looked on tv. And he doesnt have to watch his tongue because apparently he left AEW recently after failing to agree a new contract.


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## elbows (Sep 5, 2022)

A bit more detail emerged:



> According to multiple sources that lined up with some of Fightful's reporting, there was a fight backstage afterward with Punk allegedly starting things by swinging fists at the Bucks' Matt Jackson. Punk trainer/friend and AEW producer Steel (part of the storyline that got Punk into Sunday's Jon Moxley match) threw a chair that hit the Bucks' Nick Jackson in the eye. Steel (Chris Guy) allegedly bit Omega and grabbed his hair.











						CM Punk, Ace Steel fight with Young Bucks, Kenny Omega after AEW All Out
					

The alleged incident took place following Punk's post-event media session.




					www.f4wonline.com


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## elbows (Sep 6, 2022)

I havent heard much more detail since, other than a dispute over who started the violence, and that there are legal complications which will get in the way of whats going to be said in the short term. And a rumour that Punk was hurt.









						Dispute exists over who started CM Punk/Young Bucks AEW All Out fight
					

There are different accounts over who started the post-press conference brawl.




					www.f4wonline.com


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## Nine Bob Note (Sep 7, 2022)

OMG, this was an actual thing


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## bromley (Sep 7, 2022)

Part 1


Part 2


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## bromley (Sep 7, 2022)

CM Punk and The Elite are suspended for tonight. But MJF with a live mic isn't!


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## elbows (Sep 7, 2022)

I suspect I may end up with cause to moan about weak leadership from Tony Khan for some time to come. It was pretty painful seeing him unable to come up with a way of intervening when Punk went off in the press conference, letting him badmouth the company and various people high up within it while he sat there powerless. Maybe he will yet find a way to resolve this mess, but its pretty obvious that anything less than certain people getting fired i unlikely to satisfy me.


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## elbows (Sep 7, 2022)

Some reports indicate that its still possible Punk will be fired today, and that even if he isnt, he got injured in his match to the extent that the title situation will have to change again.


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## bromley (Sep 7, 2022)

Should be good! Punk is (conveniently) out for a year with his injury so no doubt another tournament. Trios should be scrapped but will be interesting to see what happens. What a cluster.


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## strung out (Sep 8, 2022)

CM Punk and Young Bucks / Kenny Omega have all been stripped of their titles. 

Wonder who MJF will feud with now? Interesting few months coming up, I'm sure.


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## elbows (Sep 8, 2022)

Punk tore his left triceps at the pay per view so would have been stripped of the title anyway even without that press conference and fight.


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## strung out (Sep 8, 2022)

elbows said:


> Punk tore his left triceps at the pay per view so would have been stripped of the title anyway even without that press conference and fight.


Not an excuse, but I suspect the knowledge he'd seriously injured himself for the second time after winning the belt contributed to his 'fuck it' outburst at the press conference. I won't be surprised if we don't see him again.


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## elbows (Sep 8, 2022)

Apparently he was already planning to do something like that in the press conference but maybe he went further as a result.

Throwing his weight around when champion, what a dick. No shortage of wrestlers pointing out his hypocrisy by digging up old tweets where he took a high and mighty stance about respect etc behind the scenes.


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## bromley (Sep 10, 2022)

Talking of tweets.


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## elbows (Sep 21, 2022)

I'm still annoyed by the bullshit backstage etc and that Moxley didnt get his long fishing holiday on schedule, but I have to say I've been enjoying their television shows plenty recently. And now its another big shows week.

Its a shame things didnt work out with Malakai Black either, although thats not a pure story of a wrestler getting pissed off with AEW, that was part of it but there were other personal factors too including an injury he has been working through for a long time.


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## strung out (Sep 21, 2022)

Agreed that AEW's TV shows have been excellent recently. Ever since they had to jump on the grenade that was the fallout from All Out, the talent and story teams have been pulling it out of the bag in what must have been difficult circumstances.


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## bromley (Oct 5, 2022)

As good as the shows are, Tony Khan has no control at all.  Sammy Guevara and Andrade El Idolo had a public spat on Twitter last night. The backstage stuff is going to ruin the promotion. 

They should have put the strap on Dragon IMO.


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## elbows (Oct 10, 2022)

Not necessarily easy to stop twitter spats, not sure if Khan could have done anything to stop it before that twitter war of words stage. But then at the next show a fight between them happened despite assurances given that it wouldnt come to that, and Andrade was sent home as a result, scuppering an advertised match.

There is a suspicion that Andrade wants to go back to WWE and so was doing this shit to try to get fired. But even before the fight they made it clear to him that a backstage fight wouldnt get him sacked, they would just send him home.

So some of this stuff may actually be happening as a result of Khan trying not to be weak - they decided they werent going to let people who want to go to WWE out of their contracts early. So even the likes of Malakai Black who was for a brief time reported to have got his release have not actually been let out of their contracts. But then that creates the issue of what to do with the talent that doesnt want to be there. Probably better to make them sit out their contracts at home rather than disrupt things.

I think any promotion can survive a certain degree of backstage shit so long as the vast majority of the wrestlers can be kept onside and incidents only happen occasionally. Apparently the mood backstage has been quite a lot better since various people were suspended. This combined with not knowing what the final outcome of the Punk shit will be yet, means that my own opinion on how this stuff has been handled is still in flux. Certainly its far from ideal for the reputation of the company in the eyes of wrestlers, fans and other onlookers, but plenty of other wrestling promotions have thrived at times despite such image issues. Granted given that part of the initial appeal of AEW was that behind the scenes it was 'all friends wrestling', perhaps they have more to lose from this turmoil than other promotions ever had. But on the other hand there still seems to be signs of a mentality from the wrestlers that do still want to be there that they would all pull together to get through these challenges, and could even come out the other side stronger.


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## elbows (Oct 21, 2022)

Sounds like Punk wont be back in AEW, thank fuck. Ace Steel was released, and the word in the wrestling press is that a buyout of Punks remaining years under contract is being negotiated.


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## bromley (Oct 21, 2022)

I feel sorry for Khan. He appears as too nice and ignorant to make it a promotor. I've enjoyed the product but I feel it's on the decline now with WWE producing a show just as good and no doubt soon to be better, that said, Jake Paul though, Urgh. The amount of titles in AEW is just silly, there are debuts each week and Athena stiffed up an Enhancement talent on Dark. So much tension backstage, unless things drastically change i can't see it lasting another 5 years.


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## elbows (Oct 21, 2022)

Securing television deals is the main thing that makes the difference between a wrestling promotion surviving or not these days. Its more fun when a promotion has bags of momentum but it doesnt mean they are dead just because that momentum declines from its first peak. I think it will take quite some time to find out whether the backstage shit has actually made a big difference to their longer term fortunes or not. And I have zero idea what the landscape will look like in 5 years.

Also its not like AEW was on some stunning trajectory before the backstage shit hit the fan. They were doing fine but there was always a sense of there being a ceiling to the maximum potential audience size. Its not like they did anything that made people think wrestling could have the sort of boom period seen a few times in the past where insanely high levels of crossover appeal to the mainstream happened (eg Hogan WWF era, and Rock/Austin era). In terms of competing with WWE they were able to win the battle against NXT but its not like people took really seriously the idea that AEW could quickly become the number 1 promotion. And if anybody did think that, it was more a sign of how people judged WWEs decline during McMahons last years in charge than of AEW.


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## elbows (Oct 30, 2022)

Despite CM Punks 'side' liking to moan about other wrestlers talking to journalists, apparently they were in the ear of people like Meltzer all the bloody time and so are hypocrites. And now that the investigation is complete and it is clear who the guilty party was (Steel and Punk out, Omega and the young bucks due back), the Punk side decided to talk absolute shit via false claims about Punks dog getting injured during the incident. Good riddance to that shit.

I'm a week behind with AEW, only just watched the show where the hangman match ended prematurely due to injury., Scary stuff, sadly not that unusual for a wrestler to get their bell rung during a match, but to see him lying motionless like that was a bit grim.


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## Nine Bob Note (Dec 14, 2022)

Mandy Rose is a very naughty girl 🤣


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## bromley (Dec 15, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Mandy Rose is a very naughty girl 🤣


Such a shame.😏


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## Bingoman (Wednesday at 12:01 PM)

rumours doing the rounds that the wwe has been sold to the saudis


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## elbows (Wednesday at 12:07 PM)

Bingoman said:


> rumours doing the rounds that the wwe has been sold to the saudis



Well certainly Stephanie is gone again and fucking Vince is back. And the backdrop to that is that Vince still owned the majority of shares and wanted to be in the big chair in the board room during the process of exploring sales options. But then again he also regretted having 'allowed himself' to be pushed out in the first place.

A possible sale has been rumoured for years, but that was in part because media companies were paying so much for deals to air WWE for a few years that it would actually work out cheaper in the long run for one of them to just buy the company outright. I havent looked into the Saudi rumours specifically but we know thery have money to spend on 'sports' acquisitions and already have a link to WWE.


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## Ax^ (Wednesday at 2:21 PM)

sold to the Saudi and Vince to return as head of creative

hmm the Saudis are getting ripped off on this one

saying that a whole year of Romain as champ before the rock returns for wrestlemania is not exactly a reason to watch


only creative thing that have going for it is bray and he been doing sweet piss all for months after returning


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## elbows (Wednesday at 2:32 PM)

I was sad that Regal went back to WWE, and I've fallen about a month behind with watching weekly AEW tv shows. Not sure whether to take a complete break from watching wrestling or not. Certainly had no plans to watch WWE regularly even without the latest news/rumours.


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## Nine Bob Note (Wednesday at 3:57 PM)

Guess this year'll be the first in a long time that I don't even watch the Rumble.


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## Lord Camomile (Wednesday at 4:38 PM)

Seeing as you brought it up...


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