# "Anarchist group to march through Chingford"



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 13, 2015)

*Anarchist group to march through Chingford*





Class War will march down Station Road in Chingford tomorrow.

Class War are set to take to the streets tomorrow to mark the launch of their bid to oust Iain Duncan Smith from his seat.

The group, who will march from Chingford train station to Tory constituency headquarters, are seeking to overturn all IDS's welfare reforms in favour of doubling all benefits.

Class War candidate for Chingford and Woodford Green Lisa McKenzie said: "My own position is that of working class woman, daughter of a striking Nottingham miner, and an academic at the London School of Economics, I have a PhD and I write, teach and research class inequality.

"Iain Duncan-Smith has a dubious background we don’t know what he has and hasn’t done he is liar, and appears to me to be of little rational intelligence but with a lot of blind right wing ideology.

"He calls himself the quiet man, well I am a gobby working class woman, and I look forward to the election, to shouting about class prejudice, to having a laugh with my class warriors, and to meeting Mr Duncan-Smith."

Class War will meet at the station at 12.30pm. 

http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/11855130.Anarchist_group_to_march_through_Chingford/

Read the comments section.


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## 8115 (Mar 13, 2015)

You can do it!


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 13, 2015)

What happened to Class War's previous candidate for Chingford and Wood Green?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> What happened to Class War's previous candidate for Chingford and Wood Green?


wood green is in a different constituency.


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 13, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> wood green is in a different constituency.



Chingford and Wood_ford_ Green then, my bad.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Chingford and Wood_ford_ Green then, my bad.


right. i thought you were conflating chingford and _hornsey _and wood green


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## el-ahrairah (Mar 13, 2015)

there's not a lot to do in chingford and no decent pubs.  i'd advise bringing a carry-out and drinking over the forest.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> there's not a lot to do in chingford and no decent pubs.  i'd advise bringing a carry-out and drinking over the forest.


this smacks of the advice i was given by a girl about bromley: there's nothing to do there except drink vodka.


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## Hocus Eye. (Mar 13, 2015)

I like the sound of Lisa Mckenzie, more power to her elbow. I hope she does some real damage to IDSs reputation. He is a jumped-up nothing and a blagger, a particularly bad example of a Tory.


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## tim (Mar 13, 2015)

He went to the same university as Amanda Knox. One that isn't actually a university but a glorified language school set up by Mussolini who decided to call it s university to make it sound posher.


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## ClassWar2015 (Mar 14, 2015)

Class War storming Chingford!


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## JHE (Mar 14, 2015)

Storming?  More like drizzling!


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## ClassWar2015 (Mar 14, 2015)

It was a fucking tornado of class warriors.


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## ClassWar2015 (Mar 14, 2015)

Show of disgusting misogyny from the Class War 'manarchists'.


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## JHE (Mar 14, 2015)

Anarchists say the darndest things!



ClassWar2015 said:


> It was a fucking tornado of class warriors.


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## ClassWar2015 (Mar 14, 2015)

Womens Death Brigade declaring war on IDS today


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## ClassWar2015 (Mar 15, 2015)

*https://tradeonion.wordpress.com/20...e-general-election-class-war-visit-chingford/*

*Cops Curtail Freedom of Speech in the General Election – Class War visit Chingford*
March 15, 2015 jcb76 Leave a comment Go to comments

Yesterday Class War came to Chingford. We marched and campaigned for Lisa McKenzie, standing against the vile Iain Duncan Smith.




We were greeted by the local Tory residents and those ready for a big change. Naturally the Tory voters looked rather shocked at our Lucy Parsons banner.







People took our leaflets and we spoke the truth about austerity and the harm that it is doing to communities and individuals across the country. They beeped their car horns in support and some stopped to discuss the issues and congratulate us on making a stand.

However, the police trailed us in a van all afternoon. There were approximately eight officers who just kerb crawled their way around Chingford monitoring whatever we did.






What a monumentally boring ‘job’






The watchers



Let’s be clear: we were campaigning for the general election. These cops weren’t there to protect us like you see with the main parties. Neither were they there to enable safe protest. They were there to intimidate. The truth became all apparent when we started to hold up posters showing David Cameron with the word “Wanker” written across it. They can’t stand their bosses being ridiculed and so the big chief idiot got out of the van and came to tell us that if we didn’t put the posters away we would be arrested. Arrested for called the Prime Minister a wanker! What on earth is wrong with calling that cunt a wanker? The last part of the exchange was captured on video.






But we had a grand day out. Here’s some photos by Peter Marshall. I’ve added more of my own below.




Meeting at the station






Working new fangled technology




Lisa giving the people of Chingford a clear choice in the election


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## JTG (Mar 15, 2015)

I like the circled A over her head


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## JHE (Mar 15, 2015)

Was it Harold Wilson who said that Toytown Anarchism owes more to Methodist architecture than to Atkinson Trucks' logo... ?


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## el-ahrairah (Mar 15, 2015)

JHE, earlier:


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 15, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> JHE, earlier:



Just needs a huge cock on his head to finish it perfectly.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 15, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> this smacks of the advice i was given by a girl about bromley: there's nothing to do there except drink vodka.


Pretty much. The only (serious) fights I ever got into as a teenager were in Bromley, just because it was such a boring place that some people clearly felt that hanging around outside McDonalds and then crossing the road just so you could bump into somebody and say "oi look where you're going" was better than nothing.


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## el-ahrairah (Mar 16, 2015)

growing up in ilford, we thought chingford was where you went when you'd 'made it'


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## The39thStep (Mar 16, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> growing up in ilford, we thought chingford was where you went when you'd 'made it'



should be fertile recruiting territory for anarchists then


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Pretty much. The only (serious) fights I ever got into as a teenager were in Bromley, just because it was such a boring place that some people clearly felt that hanging around outside McDonalds and then crossing the road just so you could bump into somebody and say "oi look where you're going" was better than nothing.



I went to Bromley a few times just to get out of Catford.


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## youngian (Mar 16, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> should be fertile recruiting territory for anarchists then


Where an anti-establishment candidate is a Tory City spiv who likes a pint and casual racism


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

It's quite a clever comment actually. It works in two ways:

1) All anarchists are from well to do backgrounds so it'll attract more

or

2) Why bother going there if it isn't a working class area


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## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It's quite a clever comment actually. It works in two ways:
> 
> 1) All anarchists are from well to do backgrounds so it'll attract more
> 
> ...


i think what he's saying is a) anarchists in general older than the average population; b) from working class backgrounds


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i think what he's saying is a) anarchists in general older than the average population; b) from working class backgrounds



My b) was sarcasm. But yeah, your interpretation works too. I'll hold short of saying 'better'.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Anarchist imagery gets on my nerves the most. Skull and Crossbones, black clothes, masks/balaclavas!, dyed hair, yada yada. The working class have aspiration. They dress smart to reflect that. Anarchist imagery reflects lifestyle sub-cultures that most of the w/c won't relate to.


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## ClassWar2015 (Mar 16, 2015)

*Around 20 activists given 'personal escort' during Station Road march on Saturday*





Class War supporters and parliamentary candidate Lisa MccKenzie (right) outside Chingford train station

A march to kick off a political anarchist's election campaign against Iain Duncan Smith received a "mixed response" from the public and a "personal escort" from the police. 

Class War candidate Lisa McKenzie, 47, of Bethnal Green, marched through Station Road, Chingford, on Saturday with around 20 members and a banner which read 'We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live'.

Ms McKenzie, a fellow at the London School of Economics, stepped up the plate last month after Playboy model turned-anarchist Marina Pepper told the party she was standing down. 

Members were given a "personal escort" by police during the two-hour rally and were allegedly threatened with arrest. 

Ms McKenzie, said: "Wherever we go, police give us a personal escort. This time they followed us all the way back to Chingford station and made sure we got back on that train. 

"Police insisted the banner was taken down or everyone present would be arrested under the Public Order Act.

“We remained defiant as we wanted to let Chingford know that we exist. 






*Candidate Lisa McKenzie with her megaphone along Station Road, Chingford*

"The response was mixed. People were quite happy to see us and we had a couple of young lads who said they had never voted before, would vote for us. 

"We also had people drive past in 4X4's telling us 'to get a job' as they assume we do not work." 

The mother-of-one aims to travel to housing estates in Chingford and Woodford Green during her next visit in two week's time as she grew up in Nottingham on a housing estate where there was no "Tory territory" and is interested to see how they feel. 

She admitted her campaign is not centred on becoming elected as MP but rather to challenge mainstream politics. 

Adding: "I'm not going to win this election and I'm not sure I would even want to be an MP. What I want is to put class back into politics. Social mobility has stopped and inequality is widening but none of the parties will address this." 
http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne..._group_receive__mixed_response__during_march/
http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/ne..._group_receive__mixed_response__during_march/


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## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Anarchist imagery gets on my nerves the most. Skull and Crossbones, black clothes, masks/balaclavas!, dyed hair, yada yada. The working class have aspiration. They dress smart to reflect that. Anarchist imagery reflects lifestyle sub-cultures that most of the w/c won't relate to.


yeh you'd never get a smartly dressed anarchist would you


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## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2015)




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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh you'd never get a smartly dressed anarchist would you



He had the right idea. I'm talking currently, not about Peter the Painter etc.


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## ClassWar2015 (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Anarchist imagery gets on my nerves the most. Skull and Crossbones, black clothes, masks/balaclavas!, dyed hair, yada yada. The working class have aspiration. They dress smart to reflect that. Anarchist imagery reflects lifestyle sub-cultures that most of the w/c won't relate to.



You've raise some very valid points. You're not going to relate to normal people easily if you're dressing like you've just stepped out of a dystopian scifi film.

But as you see the most of us look very normal.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> You've raise some very valid points. You're not going to relate to normal people easily if you're dressing like you've just stepped out of a dystopian scifi film.
> 
> But as you see the most of us look very normal.



True. The Class War logo needs a bit of work though.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> He had the right idea. I'm talking currently, not about Peter the Painter etc.


by the time you've tower blocks named after you you're respectable


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## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> True. The Class War logo needs a bit of work though.


yeh being spread about more


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## ClassWar2015 (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> True. The Class War logo needs a bit of work though.



It's fucking quality.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> It's fucking quality.





Oh come on. The typeface is terrible even before blood starts dripping from it. It's not like this stuff doesn't matter. The opposition have millions they can invest getting this stuff right.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Death. Biker gangs. Heavy metal.


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## Buckaroo (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Death. Biker gangs. Heavy metal.



Nah it's just the mirror image of the tabloid shit. This is the opposition.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Oh come on. The typeface is terrible even before blood starts dripping from it. It's not like this stuff doesn't matter. The opposition have millions they can invest getting this stuff right.


i'm keener on how it was in the 1990s, when impact or some very similar font used.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 16, 2015)

I quite like class wars electoral trollface. It may not be the presage of the full red dawn but they are taking the piss out of the process while looking like a b movie knock off of mad max 2. Carry on folks. 


what c66 said about the quest for respectability of the wc is so very methodist and true. People do want to be taken seriously, they want the respect that comes as a given for those of the right accent and class. Spent most of my upbringing being told to talk properly and attend my lessons cos 'you aint joining the army'. That drive for respectability is not because the respectability is a goal in of itself, its because parents want better for us- they want what the upper classes have and speaking the 'right' way and knowing the 'right' lessons will get us to access all those things they grew up not having.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Nah it's just the mirror image of the tabloid shit. This is the opposition.
> View attachment 68885


The Sun is a newspaper though. Their typeface is pretty good for their style of journalism hence that's why they use it. Using a crap one doesn't counter them any.


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## Buckaroo (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> The Sun is a newspaper though. Their typeface is pretty good for their style of journalism hence that's why they use it. Using a crap one doesn't counter them any.



Yeah point taken but not sure that's the point, the typeface I mean, not the point.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Yeah point taken but not sure that's the point, the typeface I mean, not the point.



It's just something that irks me in general re: the anarchist left. If Class War thinks that's what best represents them then fair dos. I'd feel a right tit holding that banner up though. But I'm not in Class War so whatever.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It's just something that irks me in general re: the anarchist left. If Class War thinks that's what best represents them then fair dos. I'd feel a right tit holding that banner up though. But I'm not in Class War so whatever.



Would you feel ok about holding Dave's head in a sack?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Would you feel ok about holding Dave's head in a sack?



It'd be a proud moment.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It'd be a proud moment.



Then I wouldn't fret too much about coming across as a tit holding a banner that the state hates.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Then I wouldn't fret too much about coming across as a tit holding a banner that the state hates.



If the purpose of the banner is simply to annoy the state then that's a different discussion than the purpose of the banner attracting working class support. I'm sure it achieves the former to a certain extent, if not the latter.

Furthermore, holding a head in a sack isn't quite the same as holding up bad art.


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 16, 2015)

It's not that bad. Though as I said on the other thread, it definitely needs decapitation & gore. Would that appeal to you more?


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## The39thStep (Mar 16, 2015)

Not quite sure how familiar voters will be with Lucy Parsons either


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## peterkro (Mar 16, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Not quite sure how familiar voters will be with Lucy Parsons either


This is surely the point,we need to have the ideas of people like Lucy Parsons out there."We must devastate the avenues were the wealthy live" goes straight to the point,even the Yippies in Chicago understood that,to great effect.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Not quite sure how familiar voters will be with Lucy Parsons either


yeh cos only voters' views matter


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> It's not that bad. Though as I said on the other thread, it definitely needs decapitation & gore. Would that appeal to you more?



I think bush decapitation would be more appealing than gore.

Seriously though. And I know Class War are making a point rather than being serious about electoral politics. But what do you think is the first thing people (friends, family) think when I say I'm an anarchist? I have miles of sludge to wade through by which point they're not even interested in the basics. Cheers all.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

I've also got quite a few people interested by getting _At The Cafe_ doing the rounds. Then they see some lifestyle shit that they don't relate to and so vote green or some other shit.


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## Buckaroo (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I think bush decapitation would be more appealing than gore.
> 
> Seriously though. And I know Class War are making a point rather than being serious about electoral politics. But what do you think is the first thing people (friends, family) think when I say I'm an anarchist? I have miles of sludge to wade through by which point they're not even interested in the basics. Cheers all.



Class war is the basics mate


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Class war is the basics mate



It isn't though. You're presenting the ends before you've explained the means. Towards people who are heavily invested into patrioticism via football or simply cultural identity. It isn't difficult to see why the edl can look attractive whilst anarchism looks alien.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

I struggle to relate to UK anarchism and it's my political position.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 16, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Would you feel ok about holding Dave's head in a sack?


down a portaloo till he goes limp and his 'soul' passes down to the fire


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## DotCommunist (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It isn't though. You're presenting the ends before you've explained the means. Towards people who are heavily invested into patrioticism via football or simply cultural identity. It isn't difficult to see why the edl can look attractive whilst anarchism looks alien.


Patriotiscism eh. 50 shades of red white n blue lol


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

For your loved up jingoists.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> For your loved up jingoists.


He looked at me over the St Georges Cross Pork Pie. His eyes bored into me like agates. I was certain then that he would be forever my lover. We made wild and passionate music on his Union Jack quilt. It was then that I thought of england, I thought of england and the strong arms of St. George.


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## Buckaroo (Mar 16, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It isn't though. You're presenting the ends before you've explained the means. Towards people who are heavily invested into patrioticism via football or simply cultural identity. It isn't difficult to see why the edl can look attractive whilst anarchism looks alien.



I'm not presenting anything and not explaining anything but I think I know what you mean. It's hard to think, fucking hell I've stopped using the word anarchism, people are too fucked up with redundancies and poverty, it feels like too much 'told you so' shit to my own family. That shit looks alien to me, don't know what anarchism looks like to others but the other options look like sludge. I know that.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 16, 2015)

I can't disagree with that.


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## The39thStep (Mar 17, 2015)

peterkro said:


> This is surely the point,we need to have the ideas of people like Lucy Parsons out there."We must devastate the avenues were the wealthy live" goes straight to the point,even the Yippies in Chicago understood that,to great effect.



Not sure that you have done your research into Chingford demographics tbh. Also a little concerned that the devastation of the avenues where the wealthy live whilst being a noble aspiration may be beyond the local branch of Class Wars capacity at the moment.


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## The39thStep (Mar 17, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh cos only voters' views matter



I thought they were conducting an election campaign? Have they done any polling into local voters views or priorities?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> I thought they were conducting an election campaign? Have they done any polling into local voters views or priorities?


perhaps you should poll cw.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Not sure that you have done your research into Chingford demographics tbh. Also a little concerned that the devastation of the avenues where the wealthy live whilst being a noble aspiration may be beyond the local branch of Class Wars capacity at the moment.


you don't know what an aspiration is, do you


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## Pickman's model (Mar 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> He looked at me over the St Georges Cross Pork Pie. His eyes bored into me like agates. I was certain then that he would be forever my lover. We made wild and passionate music on his Union Jack quilt. It was then that I thought of england, I thought of england and the strong arms of St. George.


i see you've read 'i'm alright jack' by richard allen


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## Pickman's model (Mar 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> down a portaloo till he goes limp and his 'soul' passes down to the fire


do not play with fire in a portaloo.


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## Supine (Mar 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> down a portaloo till he goes limp and his 'soul' passes down to the fire



Talking about murder like it's an acceptable political thing to do. Is this not against urban rules?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

Supine said:


> Talking about murder like it's an acceptable political thing to do. Is this not against urban rules?



No.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 17, 2015)

Supine said:


> Talking about murder like it's an acceptable political thing to do. Is this not against urban rules?


no. next.


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## gamerunknown (Mar 17, 2015)

Supine said:


> Talking about murder like it's an acceptable political thing to do.



Hmm.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 17, 2015)

Supine said:


> Talking about murder like it's an acceptable political thing to do. Is this not against urban rules?



lol


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## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

*wrong thread*


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## Pickman's model (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Note the claimed chlorine bomb attack taking place in idlib yesterday took place on the anniversary of the chemical attack on Halabja in '88.


wrong thread?


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## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

oops, well spotted - Chingford remains very far from Syria. No chemical attacks yet.


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 17, 2015)

e2A: nope


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## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Supine said:


> Talking about murder like it's an acceptable political thing to do. Is this not against urban rules?


_Killing noe murder _- a position rightfully recognised in these isles for 350 years.


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> I thought they were conducting an election campaign? Have they done any polling into local voters views or priorities?



Don't think so. I believe they are piloting a new approach which involves no-one who lives in the constituency or knows anything it about marching round with a flag stating that if elected they will "devastate" the area. 

Not sure how many votes are in it myself but Nigel Irritable might be interested in this example of innovative campaigning.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 17, 2015)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Don't think so. I believe they are piloting a new approach which involves no-one who lives in the constituency or knows anything it about marching round with a flag stating that if elected they will "devastate" the area.


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## Streathamite (Mar 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Not sure that you have done your research into Chingford demographics tbh. Also a little concerned that the devastation of the avenues where the wealthy live whilst being a noble aspiration may be beyond the local branch of Class Wars capacity at the moment.


A _local_ branch of Class war? I mean, in _Chingford_?
Does s/he have a name?


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## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Anarchist imagery gets on my nerves the most. Skull and Crossbones, black clothes, masks/balaclavas!, dyed hair, yada yada. The working class have aspiration. They dress smart to reflect that. Anarchist imagery reflects lifestyle sub-cultures that most of the w/c won't relate to.


THIS!!!! It's embarrassing.

Re that banner that says WANKERS. It no way passes the Nan test, can you imagine have a chat about that banner with your Nan? I couldn't she'd find swearing on the streets disgraceful. I wouldn't want my kids to see it on the street if I lived in Chingford. The people involved in this just do not look in any way decent folk (they look like the kind of people who sign on and drink cider in anarchist pubs in Bristol). Why do people involved in far left politics have to look so fucking skutty? It just makes it seem divorced from every day life and the ideas linked to fringe nutjobs. I mean I'm sure they're all lovely people and that but... it's just so alienating.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

I didn't realise 'scutty' was said elsewhere, I thought it was Teesside centric.  

Text message from my mate the other day:

"You about for a beer? I'm working in scutty London."


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## ddraig (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> they look like the kind of people who sign on and drink cider in anarchist pubs in Bristol


for real??


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> THIS!!!! It's embarrassing.
> 
> Re that banner that says WANKERS. It no way passes the Nan test, can you imagine have a chat about that banner with your Nan? I couldn't she'd find swearing on the streets disgraceful. I wouldn't want my kids to see it on the street if I lived in Chingford. The people involved in this just do not look in any way decent folk (they look like the kind of people who sign on and drink cider in anarchist pubs in Bristol). Why do people involved in far left politics have to look so fucking skutty? It just makes it seem divorced from every day life and the ideas linked to fringe nutjobs. I mean I'm sure they're all lovely people and that but... it's just so alienating.



The question is, who's going to hide under the table when the lead starts flying, & who will take up the fight? Fuck what their image is perceived as. 

(Hopefully the lead will start flying & we don't all get fucked over by a bunch of toffs.)


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 17, 2015)

Pickman's model - oil my Purdey!


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## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

I think it's important to take this kind of feedback seriously. Presently it attracts fellow leftists. It's still looking inwards and loves the punk roots of the 'scene'. What does that mean to anyone else?


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 17, 2015)

We need a spark - And we need one now.


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## 8ball (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I think it's important to take this kind of feedback seriously. Presently it attracts fellow leftists. It's still looking inwards and loves the punk roots of the 'scene'. What does that mean to anyone else?



Isn't that the whole point of identity groups?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

That's a fair point. Whether CW achieves that remains to be seen. Whenever sparks happen though they're not driven by the left and we're the ones catching up.

I'm reminded of living in parts of Hackney. I'd see black families leave their houses on Sunday for church, and they'd be turned out perfectly in suits and dresses. These are people who are not only the bottom end of the pay scale, they've endured bigotry to even get there. They dress to the nines because that's where their self respect comes from. That's their fuck you to the system. That's the real working class.

Coincidentally I've found working class religious types to be the most receptive towards horizontal organising, anarchist ideas. Saying "fuck this, fuck you" on a banner undoes that. They wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

8ball said:


> Isn't that the whole point of identity groups?



I'm an anarchist. I see it as a political position. The identity is working class. Maybe that's what I'm getting wrong.


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## Buckaroo (Mar 17, 2015)

Dress smart casual and 'Down with this sort of thing' banners. Reaching out to the hard to reach.


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## seventh bullet (Mar 17, 2015)

Dress like you don't care that you're grounded and you're not the sort to tidy your room.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Dress smart casual and 'Down with this sort of thing' banners. Reaching out to the hard to reach.



Just understand the working class a bit more beyond thinking they all swear.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Just understand the working class a bit more beyond thinking they all swear.



Just not think a bit of swearing is intended to represent anarchism or the working class.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> THIS!!!! It's embarrassing.
> 
> Re that banner that says WANKERS. It no way passes the Nan test, can you imagine have a chat about that banner with your Nan? I couldn't she'd find swearing on the streets disgraceful. I wouldn't want my kids to see it on the street if I lived in Chingford. The people involved in this just do not look in any way decent folk (they look like the kind of people who sign on and drink cider in anarchist pubs in Bristol). Why do people involved in far left politics have to look so fucking skutty? It just makes it seem divorced from every day life and the ideas linked to fringe nutjobs. I mean I'm sure they're all lovely people and that but... it's just so alienating.



Fuck off. Show me one person on those photos who looks like you so rudely describe?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Just not think a bit of swearing is intended to represent anarchism or the working class.



I'm sure the CW wagon will roll on regardless despite these comments, so it's fruitless for either of us to get into a daft pissing contest. I feel my comments are valid though, not just with CW but anarchism generally. I doubt I'll be listened to. Which as at the heart of the issue really.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

seventh bullet said:


> Dress like you don't care that you're grounded and you're not the sort to tidy your room.



Fuck you. We ain't no scruffs.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm an anarchist.



Of course you are.


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Just understand the working class a bit more beyond thinking they all swear.



This.

It's fahking offensive. Even worse when it's the 'hey I'm really a prole too' poshos acting out the caricature.


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Fuck you. We ain't no scruffs.



Oh my, swearing.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

seventh bullet said:


> Oh my, swearing.



You're ignorant and arrogant. We ain't scruffs. No decent poster here has said that. Only no mark kiddies like you.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Of course you are.



I don't look like one though. You'd never recognise it if you passed me in the street.


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> You're ignorant and arrogant. We ain't scruffs. No decent poster here has said that. Only no mark kiddies like you.



Go on annakissed, call me middle class or something.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm sure the CW wagon will roll on regardless despite these comments, so it's fruitless for either of us to get into a daft pissing contest. I feel my comments are valid though, not just with CW but anarchism generally. I doubt I'll be listened to. Which as at the heart of the issue really.



You have preconceptions of anarchists because you're not involved in any decent work, nor have been or are likely too I'd guess.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

seventh bullet said:


> Go on annakissed, call me middle class or something.



You sad little no mark prick that has a bee in his little bonnet about anarchists for some reason i dont give a fuck about.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> You have preconceptions of anarchists because you're not involved in any decent work, nor have been or are likely too I'd guess.



Is Joy still standing in Darlington? What about Trevor? He wasn't standing at all though I don't think.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm sure the CW wagon will roll on regardless despite these comments, so it's fruitless for either of us to get into a daft pissing contest. I feel my comments are valid though, not just with CW but anarchism generally. I doubt I'll be listened to. Which as at the heart of the issue really.



Whether you doubt you'll be listened to isn't the heart of the issue and if you feel your comments are valid then good for you. And if a group of people want to protest about poor doors or anything else with a banner that says 'Wankers', good for them.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Is Joy still standing in Darlington? What about Trevor? He wasn't standing at all though I don't think.



Name dropping of people you've seen on the internet is not the same as getting off your arse and organising. I invite you to do that before slagging others off.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> That's a fair point. Whether CW achieves that remains to be seen. Whenever sparks happen though they're not driven by the left and we're the ones catching up.
> 
> I'm reminded of living in parts of Hackney. I'd see black families leave their houses on Sunday for church, and they'd be turned out perfectly in suits and dresses. These are people who are not only the bottom end of the pay scale, they've endured bigotry to even get there. They dress to the nines because that's where their self respect comes from. That's their fuck you to the system. That's the real working class.
> 
> Coincidentally I've found working class religious types to be the most receptive towards horizontal organising, anarchist ideas. Saying "fuck this, fuck you" on a banner undoes that. They wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.


Absolutely this. I'd also add in a large bit of the proud white working class to this.


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> You sad little no mark prick that has a bee in his little bonnet about anarchists for some reason i dont give a fuck about.



I'm good thanks. Is there going to be some mention of bourgeois sensibilities soon?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Name dropping of people you've seen on the internet is not the same as getting off your arse and organising. I invite you to do that before slagging others off.



Is Trevor on the internet? What about Mark in boro, is he still standing?


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Fuck off. Show me one person on those photos who looks like you so rudely describe?





Citizen66 said:


> I'm sure the CW wagon will roll on regardless despite these comments, so it's fruitless for either of us to get into a daft pissing contest. I feel my comments are valid though, not just with CW but anarchism generally. I doubt I'll be listened to. Which as at the heart of the issue really.


There's your answer. I'm not gonna sit here picking out individuals to slag off. If you can't see yourselves then there's little I can say.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> There's your answer



That's not an answer.


----------



## gamerunknown (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> It no way passes the Nan test, can you imagine have a chat about that banner with your Nan? I couldn't she'd find swearing on the streets disgraceful.



One of my grandmothers is an anarchist as far as I can tell. Don't think she'd care. In fact she's probably disappointed I haven't tried to blow up any dictators.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

gamerunknown said:


> One of my grandmothers is an anarchist as far as I can tell. Don't think she'd care. In fact she's probably disappointed I haven't tried to blow up any dictators.


That's pretty


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> There's your answer. I'm not gonna sit here picking out individuals to slag off. If you can't see yourselves then there's little I can say.



I want to know what pictures you've been looking at? We look normal. I want to know what you think is a normal look?!


----------



## juice_terry (Mar 17, 2015)

I must admit that there were some very posh voices coming from the class warriors on the you tube footage of the Chingford walk . 

It's all a bit of  a farce  really


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> I want to know what pictures you've been looking at? We look normal. I want to know what you think is a normal look?!


You think you look normal? You have to be taking the piss?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> I want to know what pictures you've been looking at? We look normal. I want to know what you think is a normal look?!



Explain what a skull and cross bones and a typeface with blood dripping from it relates to garnering interest from the working class and then consider normal after that.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> I want to know what pictures you've been looking at? We look normal. I want to know what you think is a normal look?!



Anything but the scutty, cider drinking, signing on look.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

I agree 'normal' is subjective.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> You think you look normal? You have to be taking the piss?



I'm sorry but you can fuck right off. That's incredibly rude and ignorant. Where do you live?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

She's proper working class. Leeds.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Anything but the scutty, cider drinking, signing on look.



There's not a single crusty among our ranks.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> There's not a single crusty among our ranks.



And if there was I wouldn't give a fuck


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> She's proper working class. Leeds.



Oh christ not one of those eco-anarchists in Leeds.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

I now do think none of you in CW are working class. You don't understand any of the undercurrents of this conversation.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 17, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Anything but the scutty, cider drinking, signing on look.


I'm usually dressed for work when I go on The Poor Doors demo's. Tie, shiny shoes etc. I do brew and drink cider but.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Oh christ not one of those eco-anarchists in Leeds.



She isn't an anarchist. She's working class.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

TopCat said:


> I'm usually dressed for work when I go on The Poor Doors demo's. Tie, shiny shoes etc. I do brew and drink cider but.



And we're all pretty well turned out i.e. not scruffs, would you not say?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Oh christ not one of those eco-anarchists in Leeds.



This is quite telling actually. You can't even talk to a w/c person without trying to label them as an unworthy anarchist.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> She isn't an anarchist. She's working class.



She's not a feminist if she's slagging of the appearance of the Death Brigade either.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> This is quite telling actually. You can't even talk to a w/c person without trying to label them as an unworthy anarchist.



Again showing your ignorance. Want to name drop anyone else you've 'friended' on facebook.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Oh christ not one of those eco-anarchists in Leeds.


I'm not an anarchist.

Listen, if you think that your image isn't a problem then I guess you just don't see it.

What I see: scruffy, piercings, died hair, black, hoodies, writing dripping blood, swear words, fire.

Now if that's the look your going for then cool. You won't appeal to many, alienate more, but knock yourselves out.

But if you just don't _see_ it... maybe you've been stuck in a left wing bubble/ivory tower too long? I mean who the fuck is Laura Park or whoever is on your banner going on about avenues?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> She's not a feminist if she's slagging of the appearance of the Death Brigade either.



You really will never connect with the w/c. I am sorry.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> You think you look normal? You have to be taking the piss?


Who are we referring to here _miss i have a phd and am still the voice of the people_?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Again showing your ignorance. Want to name drop anyone else you've 'friended' on facebook.





I guess I i know some people in your own party more than you do then.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I now do think none of you in CW are working class. You don't understand any of the undercurrents of this conversation.



Yeah no juggling, no didgeridoos, no crystals etc


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> She's not a feminist if she's slagging of the appearance of the Death Brigade either.


The _Death_ Brigade?!

There's what we're talking about in a nutshell.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 17, 2015)

Arm the proles ffs!


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Who are we referring to here _miss i have a phd and am still the voice of the people_?



Come on man. How do I introduce this to my family and friends?


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Who are we referring to here _miss i have a phd and am still the voice of the people_?


The irony of that on a thread started by Class War, led by... wait for it... a working class woman with a phd who far beyond me is claiming to speak for people 

I mean she actually IS wanting to speak for people eh, she's going for MP

And more power to her butchers. I've no problem with over educated gobby wc women me


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

Anyway I said no more fights so I'll leave it there. Citizen knows what he's on about.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Come on man. How do I introduce this to my family and friends?


By your actions and life - wtf is this fucking shit i'm reading back through now? 

People i've time and respect for posting this dog string guilty all middle class shit. Why the fuck aren't you, a working class anarchist,challenging it? Wtf is wrong with you?


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> What I see: scruffy, piercings, died hair, black, hoodies, writing dripping blood, swear words, fire.



1. We're not scruffy most of us are well turned out. Prove otherwise.
2. 1 person i know has some facial piercings big deal. Get over it.
3. 'Died' hair. What planet are you on? Most women dye their hair at some point.
4. There's the occasional black hoodie sported by the odd person for tactical reasons. Most of us do not go for that look.
5. Fair point but I like it.
6. Swear words. Don't care.
7. Fire. It's fucking theatre!


----------



## TopCat (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> And we're all pretty well turned out i.e. not scruffs, would you not say?


I would say people on the whole are well turned out. The women especially.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> 1. We're not scruffy most of us are well turned out. Prove otherwise.
> 2. 1 person i know has some facial piercings big deal. Get over it.
> 3. 'Died' hair. What planet are you on? Most women dye their hair at some point.
> 4. There's the occasional black hoodie sported by the odd person for tactical reasons. Most of us do not go for that look.
> ...


Listen if honestly you can't see it then I'm genuinely surprised cos it's so blindingly obvious that I just don't know what to say?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> The irony of that on a thread started by Class War, led by... wait for it... a working class woman with a phd who far beyond me is claiming to speak for people
> 
> I mean she actually IS wanting to speak for people eh, she's going for MP
> 
> And more power to her butchers. I've no problem with over educated gobby wc women me


She's not going to be an MP. She's using the situation to put forward an idea. She's not hiding hers at least.


----------



## cesare (Mar 17, 2015)

It's the "activists"/lifestylists that tend to do the scruffy dreadlocky thing.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> By your actions and life - wtf is this fucking shit i'm reading back through now?
> 
> People i've time and respect for posting this dog string guilty all middle class shit. Why the fuck aren't you, a working class anarchist,challenging it? Wtf is wrong with you?



It started off as a critique of how anarchism presents itself. By me, funnily enough. And it does fuck me off. Why is that invalid? I agree _dog on a string_ is an inaccurate stereotype, but, fucking hell, it's not like there's a lot of work going on dispelling that myth. It proper pisses me off.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Listen if honestly you can't see it then I'm genuinely surprised cos it's so blindingly obvious that I just don't know what to say?



So of the pictures from the demo, who to your eyes is scruffy?


----------



## cesare (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It started off as a critique of how anarchism presents itself. By me, funnily enough. And it does fuck me off. Why is that invalid? I agree _dog on a string_ is an inaccurate stereotype, but, fucking hell, it's not like there's a lot of work going on dispelling that myth. It proper pisses me off.


Only time I've seen the dog-on-a-string stereotype has been at the fucking Bookfair.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

Nick Griffin got this shit right.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 17, 2015)

She better not say me.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

cesare said:


> Only time I've seen the dog-on-a-string stereotype has been at the fucking Bookfair.



I'm guessing that and the internet is the extent of C66s involvement in organising.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

As did Hilary Clinton.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 17, 2015)

Fuck me the level of un selfawareness is astonishing. Total disconnect from reality. I'm leaving it there it's not worth saying anything further.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> I'm guessing that and the internet is the extent of C66s involvement in organising.


I doubt this. C66 is er, alright. We are on the same side.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It started off as a critique of how anarchism presents itself. By me, funnily enough. And it does fuck me off. Why is that invalid? I agree _dog on a string_ is an inaccurate stereotype, but, fucking hell, it's not like there's a lot of work going on dispelling that myth. It proper pisses me off.


Maybe you better get involved in some anarchist stuff then.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Fuck me the level of un selfawareness is astonishing. Total disconnect from reality. I'm leaving it there it's not worth saying anything further.


Fuck off then.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> I'm guessing that and the internet is the extent of C66s involvement in organising.



_Far better to be involved in something that misunderstands, than to not be involved at all..._

A great philosopher once wrote.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Fuck me the level of un selfawareness is astonishing. Total disconnect from reality. I'm leaving it there it's not worth saying anything further.



Show me a picture on this thread where someone looks scruffy? I'm genuinely befuddled.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Maybe you better get involved in some anarchist stuff then.



Maybe you had too.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Fuck me the level of un selfawareness is astonishing. Total disconnect from reality. I'm leaving it there it's not worth saying anything further.


The idea that all you see is all the world and that is total awareness.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Maybe you had too.


I am lad, which is why your joining in with this pathetic dog on a string stuff is rather grating.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

They all forget about my RMT activism at this point in order to tell me that wandering around Chingford speaking to nobody will earn me my stripes.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

I reckon Topcat and me are the best dressed fuckers on this thread anyway.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

Well you'll have better jackets than me.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I reckon Topcat and me are the best dressed fuckers on this thread anyway.


You were missed at Poor Doors after the bookfair.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I am lad, which is why your joining in with this pathetic dog on a string stuff is rather grating.



I'll see you on the poor doors next thursday then?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

TopCat said:


> You were missed at Poor Doors after the bookfair.


_I was there_ - as pickman's can attest. Hard struggle back up to the fair mind.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'll see you on the poor doors next thursday then?


No chance, if i was in the area and failed to turn out - this is the trick you're doing right? - then i'd be a bottler.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm might start supporting it. But my experience of left groups (northern ones aside) is that they don't actually _like_ w/c activists.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm might start supporting it. But my experience of left groups (northern ones aside) is that they don't actually _like_ w/c activists.


Bottler


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Bottler





You say that knowing I'll now turn up. I bottle from fuck all.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm might start supporting it. But my experience of left groups (northern ones aside) is that they don't actually _like_ w/c activists.


Fucking hell, just try it, loads of people you like and agree with - if its not to your liking then, no worries


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Fucking hell, just try it, loads of people you like and agree with - if its not to your liking no worries



Fair dos, I will. I can't this week as meeting a mate down here grafting. But I will give solidarity. And stand by my criticism.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Fair dos, I will. I can't this week as meeting a mate down here grafting. But I will give solidarity. And stand by my criticism.


Too late victory comes weds.


----------



## cesare (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Fair dos, I will. I can't this week as meeting a mate down here grafting. But I will give solidarity. And stand by my criticism.


There's plenty here to get involved in if CW's not your thing

https://actioneastend.wordpress.com/leaflets/


----------



## TopCat (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> _I was there_ - as pickman's can attest. Hard struggle back up to the fair mind.


Sorry.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

TopCat said:


> Sorry.


Energised a very tired me that did.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

cesare said:


> There's plenty here to get involved in if CW's not your thing
> 
> https://actioneastend.wordpress.com/leaflets/



I just remember talking to Bone in the White Hart once and me saying I lived in Leyton and him saying "oh, we have nothing for you." WTF was that supposed to mean?


----------



## cesare (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I just remember talking to Bone in the White Hart once and me saying I lived in Leyton and him saying "oh, we have nothing for you." WTF was that supposed to mean?


I have no idea


----------



## TopCat (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I just remember talking to Bone in the White Hart once and me saying I lived in Leyton and him saying "oh, we have nothing for you." WTF was that supposed to mean?


He was drunk?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I just remember talking to Bone in the White Hart once and me saying I lived in Leyton and him saying "oh, we have nothing for you." WTF was that supposed to mean?


How sure are you all the details of this are accurate?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

TopCat said:


> He was drunk?



Probably. He likes proper pricey beer too.  He got a Haaaagg... I'm thinking icecream... that wheat beer with herbs in out of me.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Probably. He likes proper pricey beer too.  He got a Haaaagg... I'm thinking icecream... that wheat beer with herbs in out of me.


Year?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> How sure are you all the details of this are accurate?



He asked where I lived, I responded, he responded. Unsolicited. I wouldn't trust my memory though.


----------



## gamerunknown (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> She isn't an anarchist. She's working class.



These aren't mutually exclusive you know. 



Citizen66 said:


> Come on man. How do I introduce this to my family and friends?



"Long shift? Underpaid?". Go from there.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Year?



I bought a book in Freedom and he happened to be in there. Pre-fire. He said "Buy Bash the Rich by Ian Bone" (I already had it) and then they appeared in the White Hart later. Taxamowelf appeared also at a later point. I don't remember stuff in years particularly. I think I pissed him off though when he was talking about the virtue of no police and I rolled Paedophilia into the conversation to add interest.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I bought a book in Freedom and he happened to be in there. Pre-fire. He said "Buy Bash the Rich by Ian Bone" (I already had it) and then they appeared in the White Hart later. Taxamowelf appeared also at a later point. I don't remember stuff in years particularly. I think I pissed him off though when he was talking about the virtue of no police and I rolled Paedophilia into the conversation to add interest.


That's the boozer to the left of the alley?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

gamerunknown said:


> These aren't mutually exclusive you know



Do you know what? I think they are. In 95% of cases they are.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That's the boozer to the left of the alley?



Yeah. Looking from the high st.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Do you know what? I think they are. In 95% of cases they are.


you really think 5% of working class people are anarchos?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> you really think 5% of working class people are anarchos?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Let me _introduce _anarchism to you. Let me _introduce _the peoples war into you.

The history of anarchism doesn't deserve this talk about dogs on strings  - it's a history rooted in class answers to capitalism. The millions who fought in iberia,in korea,in Argentinia,in cuba,in brazil, in mexico, in china . In working class responses to capital and the state.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

And the Jolly Roger woz wot worked. Come on, deal with that criticism. Why brush it off?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

Maybe image doesn't actually matter. Meanwhile, those who are winning have able teams behind theirs.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> And the Jolly Roger woz wot worked. Come on, deal with that criticism. Why brush it off?


Yes, and on the factories on the sea - they were ours too. The most democratic charters years before democracy.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> And the Jolly Roger woz wot worked. Come on, deal with that criticism. Why brush it off?


Not winning an election - good to rally round and...oh hang on,you're actually asking why a more voter friendly banner ...etc..oh wow


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Not winning an election - good to rally round and...oh hang on,you're actually asking why a more voter friendly banner ...etc..oh wow



Not at all. Just something that people can relate to. The edl have it made - the st george's flag, easy targets - immigrants etc. I see more people going that way than towards anarchism. Tenfold. This needs to be discussed?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Not at all. Just something that people can relate to. The edl have it made - the st george's flag, easy targets - immigrants etc. I see more people going that way than towards anarchism. Tenfold. This needs to be discussed?


They never had anti-immigration banners. What they had what a focused support on a social issue. Banners are not key. In london housing is a social issue - banners (your view on their content neither here nor there) is one way to focus interest on a pre-existing issue. That's the only similarity. They both noticed something that is about wider stuff and used it.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> They never had anti-immigration banners. What they had what a focused support on a social issue. Banners are not key. In london housing is a social issue - banners (your view on their content neither here nor there) is one way to focus interest on a pre-existing issue. That's the only similarity. They both noticed something that is about wider stuff and used it.



See butchers can kick my arse. This is check mate now as any counter argument won't land.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 17, 2015)

In terms of anarchism anyway.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 17, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> 1. We're not scruffy most of us are well turned out. Prove otherwise.
> 2. 1 person i know has some facial piercings big deal. Get over it.
> 3. 'Died' hair. What planet are you on? Most women dye their hair at some point.
> 4. There's the occasional black hoodie sported by the odd person for tactical reasons. Most of us do not go for that look.
> ...



And that is exactly what class war and their little outings are - theatre or if someone was being harsh, pantomime.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> And that is exactly what class war and their little outings are - theatre or if someone was being harsh, pantomime.


It is mate, red theatre - but as part of a growing experience of how housing is being treated in london. A flag in the ground - don't let who planted it put you off. For the limited resources,to bellow this loud is _already a victory._


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Not winning an election - good to rally round and...oh hang on,you're actually asking why a more voter friendly banner ...etc..oh wow


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 17, 2015)

(sorry)


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2015)

I so forgot


----------



## 8ball (Mar 17, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm an anarchist. I see it as a political position. The identity is working class. Maybe that's what I'm getting wrong.



<shakes head sadly>


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

Unlike Seeing anarchist as a political position and the identity is unified middle class. But with individual hopes and dreams.


----------



## Favelado (Mar 18, 2015)

Who's winning the thread? The JPF or the PFJ?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

The BFG?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The BFG?


is this the uda or is this the ira or is this the mpla i thought it was the uk or just another country, another council tenancy


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Let me _introduce _anarchism to you. Let me _introduce _the peoples war into you.
> 
> The history of anarchism doesn't deserve this talk about dogs on strings  - it's a history rooted in class answers to capitalism. The millions who fought in iberia,in korea,in Argentinia,in cuba,in brazil, in mexico, in china . In working class responses to capital and the state.


Good. Yes! Do it. To citizen or the39step or whoever you respect (not asking you to do it to me lol).

But for fuck sake _demand_ to be taken seriously. That's the least I expect of you butchers. Red theatre blah blah but you look like fools! I don't want that I want a serious bloody alternative. I want something _real_.

So when someone like citizen says 'but what about paedophiles' to all this fuck the police sentiment, why don't you _listen_? It's the first thought through people's head and it demands a serious response.

The people who are taken seriously last year were E15 mums. It just feels like the class war lot are actually doing THEM a disservice by making the politics underpinning it an irrelevant laughing stock. Dismissable.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Good. Yes! Do it. To citizen or the39step or whoever you respect (not asking you to do it to me lol).
> 
> But for fuck sake _demand_ to be taken seriously. That's the least I expect of you butchers. Red theatre blah blah but you look like fools! I don't want that I want a serious bloody alternative. I want something _real_.
> 
> ...


this would be the paedophiles facilitated by the police?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

Or the paedophiles that are the police.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

btw nancy class war were talking about housing and gentrification years and years ago - it's not like this is a new departure for cw. pls don't suggest it's not been a concerb for the group in its current and former incarnations for a long time.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Or the paedophiles that are the police.


or the paedophiles who control the police


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Mar 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> btw nancy class war were talking about housing and gentrification years and years ago - it's not like this is a new departure for cw. pls don't suggest it's not been a concerb for the group in its current and former incarnations for a long time.


I'm not suggesting it's not a concern!


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

I would have thought that most police officers were to old for paedos to fuck?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I would have thought that most police officers were to old for paedos to fuck?


they're targeted by geros


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> I'm not suggesting it's not a concern!


good


----------



## J Ed (Mar 18, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> So when someone like citizen says 'but what about paedophiles' to all this fuck the police sentiment, why don't you _listen_? It's the first thought through people's head and it demands a serious response.



Every protest critical of the police or under attack from the police should loudly point to the fact that the police defend and enable paedophiles.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 18, 2015)

Look at the response of working-class people to South Yorkshire Police's PR bullshit around the enforcement of petty laws. "Why are you doing this while the paedophiles you protect continue to walk freely around Rotherham?" your work is already done for you.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

Someone needs to pen some Jimmy Savile ditties.


----------



## ClassWar2015 (Mar 18, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> The people who are taken seriously last year were E15 mums. It just feels like the class war lot are actually doing THEM a disservice by making the politics underpinning it an irrelevant laughing stock. Dismissable.



You're showing yourself up to be ignorant of grassroots politics. Just because one person organises with CW one day doesn't mean they're not involved in other grassroots groups. People from E15 mums have been attending the Poor Doors protest and so have many many other groups. As have CW been supporting other great groups in town both as a group and personally.

It's different tactics for different actions. Horses for courses. But you do not seem to care about that. You sound like a liberal who wants to spit from the sidelines.


----------



## chilango (Mar 18, 2015)

We've been here before.

There's always been a tension between  style and substance in the various incarnations of Class War. 

Between the provocation and the underlying ideas.

I'm sure it's been discussed at length here.

But, this maybe a distraction. 

It's not the "seriousness" of the branding that matters. It's success that brings credibility not style.

TUSC have a very serious, sober, brand identity. Yet their credibility remains pegged by their abject showings at the ballot box (their chosen field of engagement). UKIP on the other hand have a pretty shit brand, yet the moment they started to pick up decent votes that no longer matters.

It's not just about votes equalling success either. Look at the so-called "Eco-warriors". Terrible, terrible image (not EF! mind. Their branding was great . Stinking, jobless, dreadlocked  trench footed crusties with scabies, and literal dogs on strings. Didn't matter to the communities they worked with though coz they got results.


----------



## chilango (Mar 18, 2015)

Conversely, Fred Perry shirts Nd leather jackets did notturn the SWP into a credible force.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> It is mate, red theatre - but as part of a growing experience of how housing is being treated in london. A flag in the ground - don't let who planted it put you off. For the limited resources,to bellow this loud is _already a victory._


Both you and I know that there are other campaigns around the housing issue, some actually involving residents , some might even be led by residents. This is neither.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Both you and I know that there are other campaigns around the housing issue, some actually involving residents , some might even be led by residents. This is neither.


&...


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 18, 2015)

chilango said:


> We've been here before.
> 
> There's always been a tension between  style and substance in the various incarnations of Class War.
> 
> ...



Branding normally requires a marketing strategy


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Branding normally requires a marketing strategy


or a hot iron


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 18, 2015)

I'd take anarchism more 'seriously' if, partly, the subcultural shite was gotten rid of.  That'll only happen if it's relevant to most people, though, and pushes the bellends out of the way.  And I'm sorry if this offends people here, but I can't keep a straight face when it comes to public school poshos using a radical class analysis to redefine themselves as proles (swearing won't hide you, it just lights everything up).

And it's not just London, this crime against humanity called the property market, it's all over.  It might be different dynamics going on with the bigger class interests involved, the serious money and massive power in a city which is different to other parts of the country being in many ways a global hub, with the results of inequality in sharp view, but nevertheless up here in the northern provinces we have state-led corporate gentrification in Greater Manchester with people experiencing the same problems.  People stuck in miserable lives by forces beyond their control.

And further north where I'm originally from (and where the sheep are scared) there's middle class cunts (sorry, has that been claimed by the Mad Max crew?) demanding and getting areas preserved in aspic only for themselves and then fuck everyone else who lives there (actually you can get out, chavs). This means working class people with families have really narrow choices when it comes to somewhere decent to live. You lot don't own this shit.  You're not the only ones fucking _angry _about it.  Get down from off that unicycle.  Put the clown shoes in the bin.


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## el-ahrairah (Mar 18, 2015)

i see your point seventh bullet, but when you describe them as public school poshos i find that doesn't equate with my knowledge of people who are into CW politics or those that are involved with it and are the public faces such as Lisa McKenzie.  maybe you know more about them than i do but that feels like a straw man.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> i see your point seventh bullet, but when you describe them as public school poshos i find that doesn't equate with my knowledge of people who are into CW politics or those that are involved with it and are the public faces such as Lisa McKenzie.  maybe you know more about them than i do but that feels like a straw man.


i took seventh bullet to be more having a go - as do we all - at those elements of the anarchist movement who 'promote' social change through lifestyle.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

It's an identity thing. Someone came up with an idea of what an anarchist should look like and now it can't be banished. It's like goths having to have a pale face and black hair, or Morrissey fans trying to look Morrissey. Likewise Elvis. 

(That isn't aimed at CW, more anarchism generally).


----------



## el-ahrairah (Mar 18, 2015)

oh, i see!  fair enough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> It's an identity thing. Someone came up with an idea of what an anarchist should look like and now it can't be banished. It's like goths having to have a pale face and black hair, or Morrissey fans trying to look Morrissey. Likewise Elvis.
> 
> (That isn't aimed at CW, more anarchism generally).


as i pointed out some years ago, the problem (i was thinking of demonstrations) with most anarchists is they look like anarchists


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## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Both you and I know that there are other campaigns around the housing issue, some actually involving residents , some might even be led by residents. This is neither.


Absolutely - and there's two things to say quick things to say about that 1) the people doing poor doors are involved in them as residents 2) many of those london camapaigns have recognised poor doors as part of their own campaign - hence the reps sent down and the info shared and the common activities.

We're far past the idea of only supporting an ideal campaign made up only of those immediately and directly involved aren't we? Did you turn back at saltley gate asking yourself _hang on i don't work here do i?_ At Grunwick? At all those places where 'other stuff'went on in the 80s and 90s?

There is no opposition here between poor doors and other activity - activity you might see as more worthwhile and effective.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

A lot of people are angry at the state of housing, are _victims _of the state of housing, are exploited by the state of housing, but they're facing these problems alone, as individuals rather than as part of a wider anti-sell off or whatever campaign - there's little they can do. Poor doors (and other stuff) are ways that individuals can get together express their anger and then build the sort of campaign that's required and then feed that back into the other wider more organised work, and for them to then support any new initiative. To dismiss the people trying to do this, to help others _because of the way they look_ is beyond fucking fatuous.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Absolutely - and there's two things to say quick things to say about that 1) the people doing poor doors are involved in them as residents 2) many of those london camapaigns have recognised poor doors as part of their own campaign - hence the reps sent down and the info shared and the common activities.
> 
> We're far past the idea of only supporting an ideal campaign made up only of those immediately and directly involved aren't we? Did you turn back at saltley gate asking yourself _hang on i don't work here do i?_ At Grunwick? At all those places where 'other stuff'went on in the 80s and 90s?
> 
> There is no opposition here between poor doors and other activity - activity you might see as more worthwhile and effective.


obviously tower hamlets residents who oppose the sort of social segregation embodied by poor doors don't have as much _validity_ in this for yer man - not to mention people from neighbouring boroughs let alone further afield.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Good. Yes! Do it. To citizen or the39step or whoever you respect (not asking you to do it to me lol).
> 
> But for fuck sake _demand_ to be taken seriously. That's the least I expect of you butchers. Red theatre blah blah but you look like fools! I don't want that I want a serious bloody alternative. I want something _real_.
> 
> ...


Do what? What exactly is it you want doing? wtf are you on about paedophiles about poor doors?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> So when someone like citizen says 'but what about paedophiles' to all this fuck the police sentiment, why don't you _listen_? It's the first thought through people's head and it demands a serious response.


fuck the police who protect the paedophiles would be the first thing which comes to my mind. were you sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting 'lalala' when everything about savile and the cops came out or when all the stuff about cops ignoring reports of grooming gangs came out? i did think you might have paid attention to that sort of thing but it seems to have flown high over your head.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

seventh bullet said:


> I'd take anarchism more 'seriously' if, partly, the subcultural shite was gotten rid of.  That'll only happen if it's relevant to most people, though, and pushes the bellends out of the way.  And I'm sorry if this offends people here, but I can't keep a straight face when it comes to public school poshos using a radical class analysis to redefine themselves as proles (swearing won't hide you, it just lights everything up).
> 
> And it's not just London, this crime against humanity called the property market, it's all over.  It might be different dynamics going on with the bigger class interests involved, the serious money and massive power in a city which is different to other parts of the country being in many ways a global hub, with the results of inequality in sharp view, but nevertheless up here in the northern provinces we have state-led corporate gentrification in Greater Manchester with people experiencing the same problems.  People stuck in miserable lives by forces beyond their control.
> 
> And further north where I'm originally from (and where the sheep are scared) there's middle class cunts (sorry, has that been claimed by the Mad Max crew?) demanding and getting areas preserved in aspic only for themselves and then fuck everyone else who lives there (actually you can get out, chavs). This means working class people with families have really narrow choices when it comes to somewhere decent to live. You lot don't own this shit.  You're not the only ones fucking _angry _about it.  Get down from off that unicycle.  Put the clown shoes in the bin.


I have little problem with the main thrust of your comments - in fact it's been an ongoing argument for as long as i can remember -  across the whole left.  But they're not really directed at anarchism are they, they're against lifesylist slummers having a little sabbatical in other peoples struggles - a problem society wide.

But to have a go at poor doors people in this way is to say that you will only recognise as valid that which takes place where you decide and how you decide. Rather than the people  whose struggle it actually is. You're far better than this and so are most of the people wheeling out the juggling shit.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

cesare said:


> There's plenty here to get involved in if CW's not your thing
> 
> https://actioneastend.wordpress.com/leaflets/



That says poor doors is on a wed. For some reason I thought it was a thu although maybe I'm confusing it with call a copper a cunt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> That says poor doors is on a wed. For some reason I thought it was a thu although maybe I'm confusing it with call a copper a cunt.


it's on a thurs NOW but it was on a weds BEFORE

every day call a copper a cunt day


----------



## cesare (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> That says poor doors is on a wed. For some reason I thought it was a thu although maybe I'm confusing it with call a copper a cunt.


It's not just CW that's supporting the Poor Doors campaign, and it's not just Thursdays.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

cesare said:


> It's not just CW that's supporting the Poor Doors campaign, and it's not just Thursdays.


in that case i hope to see the rubble outside 1 commercial street diminished by tomorrow and the front windows replaced by glaziers' plywood.


----------



## seventh bullet (Mar 18, 2015)

I know there are working class people involved in anarchist politics.  I know that it is a more working class phenomenon in other countries, places where it has wider relevancy, is taken seriously, has a wider participation of working class people.

It isn't poshos who do this shit, either.  My own brother has been like that in the past with his hippy social worker girlfriend.  He's of the same shitty conditions (but not the people), the same kind of background as Lisa McKenzie, but has come out with dismissive shite about people, related to crappy subcutural 'radical' mileus.

I was once lambasted for having the temerity to pay less than 10% of my low monthly income on a mortgage instead of 50% or more on rent (and having to move to a different city to do it), as if insecurity and penury is the lot of the working class.  I find that disturbing.   It was also assumed that an unskilled worker like me can simply take a six-month sabbatical and expect to have my job when I got back after taking cocaine in Peru or something.  Different experiences and daft, offensive assumptions.  These matter.  It isn't just the way people look (not necessarily CW), it's what's behind it, too.  This by people who eventually are in the position to earn far more than what I earn a year in lines of work that are putting sugar on spoonfuls of shit for some of the most vulnerable, deprived people in our society.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

seventh bullet said:


> It was also assumed that an unskilled worker like me can simply take a six-month sabbatical and expect to have my job when I got back after taking cocaine in Peru or something.



Don't assume we can't do that either though.

I only took san pedro though not cocaine


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> Of course you are.



If you are, he is.
Although historically, some of your membership have turned out to be right cunts (with the emphasis on "right"). A certain public school wanker by the name of Halland, who used to post here, was proof of that particular problem.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Absolutely - and there's two things to say quick things to say about that 1) the people doing poor doors are involved in them as residents 2) many of those london camapaigns have recognised poor doors as part of their own campaign - hence the reps sent down and the info shared and the common activities.
> 
> We're far past the idea of only supporting an ideal campaign made up only of those immediately and directly involved aren't we? Did you turn back at saltley gate asking yourself _hang on i don't work here do i?_ At Grunwick? At all those places where 'other stuff'went on in the 80s and 90s?
> 
> There is no opposition here between poor doors and other activity - activity you might see as more worthwhile and effective.



Fully support campaigns against poor doors and gentrification  Butchers but lets not conflate those campaigns with Class Wars self  promotion and a discussion about the limitations of their election campaign. I began reading Linda McKenzies 'Getting By' when I was away last week and one of the first things that came into my head was if she was serious about doing something ( aside from authoring a reasonable book) why on earth would she end up in an organisation that has absolutely no connection to her subject matter?

Have you been following the IWCA discussion on housing campaigns btw?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 18, 2015)

chilango said:


> Conversely, Fred Perry shirts Nd leather jackets did notturn the SWP into a credible force.



RCP used to be Fred Perry , Black flight jackets and gel


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> RCP used to be Fred Perry , Black flight jackets and gel


+


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Fully support campaigns against poor doors and gentrification  Butchers but lets not conflate those campaigns with Class Wars self  promotion and a discussion about the limitations of their election campaign. I began reading Linda McKenzies 'Getting By' when I was away last week and one of the first things that came into my head was if she was serious about doing something ( aside from authoring a reasonable book) why on earth would she end up in an organisation that has absolutely no connection to her subject matter?
> 
> Have you been following the IWCA discussion on housing campaigns btw?


I haven't to be honest.

Lisa is involved in far more then the election thing for CW (that, i think, is the extent Of CW as a viable organisation - others may think diff and have diff plans though) i think. She seems  very active in across the whole bottom up housing stuff in london. I've not read the book yet, have read a number of her papers though. (God i hate saying that _papers_)


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> Is Joy still standing in Darlington? What about Trevor? He wasn't standing at all though I don't think.



Does anyone with any connection to any form of anarchist endeavour, actually believe a word Dr Trev says?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Does anyone with any connection to any form of anarchist endeavour, actually believe a word Dr Trev says?



He's pretty active in the NE. Both Teesside and Wearside.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> He's pretty active in the NE. Both Teesside and Wearside.


After all you said about alienating behaviour!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

gamerunknown said:


> One of my grandmothers is an anarchist as far as I can tell. Don't think she'd care. In fact she's probably disappointed I haven't tried to blow up any dictators.


A great-gran was a supporter of anarchism, and of the Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine. A brother died fighting Denikin's Whites.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> After all you said about alienating behaviour!



?


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> ?


You were talking about alienating anarchists activity then defended ** on the basis of his alienating activity.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

I haven't defended anyone. I answered a different question to what was being asked as I can't speak for those who work with him.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> The _Death_ Brigade?!
> 
> There's what we're talking about in a nutshell.



Depends how you take it, Nancy.
If you know a bit of Euro-anarcho history, you'd know it's mostly ironic. Insurgents used to (in fact often still do!) give their formations all sorts of over-the-top names. It's about propagandising your "movement".


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I haven't defended anyone. I answered a different question to what was being asked as I can't speak for those who work with him.


You surely offered his activity as a defence rather than a criticism though?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Arm the proles ffs!



What makes you think that we're not already armed, Bish?


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> You surely offered his activity as a defence rather than a criticism though?



How do I know the answer to the question? NEA members don't seem to have deserted him. TSM appears to have imploded but I don't think that was his doing. He's considered controversial by some though yeah.


----------



## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

But my black balaclava criticism applies to NEA too if that's what you mean.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Arm the proles ffs!


ARM THE UNEMPLOYED


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> The irony of that on a thread started by Class War, led by... wait for it... a working class woman with a phd who far beyond me is claiming to speak for people
> 
> I mean she actually IS wanting to speak for people eh, she's going for MP
> 
> And more power to her butchers. I've no problem with over educated gobby wc women me


did we ever reach a conclusion on the police and the paedophiles?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Yeah no juggling, no didgeridoos, no crystals etc


no unicycles no jugglers no didgeridoos - on signs appearing up and down the land


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

ClassWar2015 said:


> 7. Fire. It's fucking theatre!


yeh but fire juggling's for wankers


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

cesare said:


> Only time I've seen the dog-on-a-string stereotype has been at the fucking Bookfair.


it used to be a regular feature of demonstrations in the 1990s. i recall being at the 3rd national anti-poll tax march (23/3/1991) and meeting someone who not only had a dog on a piece of string but had dyed its hair red.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> And the Jolly Roger woz wot worked. Come on, deal with that criticism. Why brush it off?



The Skull and Crossbones is certainly more honest than many flags and banners. It's certainly never been used to promote nationalism or racial exclusivity.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The Skull and Crossbones is certainly more honest than many flags and banners. It's certainly never been used to promote nationalism or racial exclusivity.


i know you never do sarcasm so i can only conclude this post shows even homer nods.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The Skull and Crossbones is certainly more honest than many flags and banners. It's certainly never been used to promote nationalism or racial exclusivity.



Apart from that whole totenkopf thing.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 18, 2015)

Back to this i reckon:


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> And that is exactly what class war and their little outings are - theatre or if someone was being harsh, pantomime.



It's taken you this long to cotton on? It's promotion of a cause, and the more colourful and objectionable you are, the better the promotion in our "connected" world.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Apart from that whole totenkopf thing.


see post 280


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> What makes you think that we're not already armed, Bish?



Do Kukri's count?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Do Kukri's count?


only one?


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 18, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> only one?



Three!


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Three!


numbers are rising i see! chop chop then


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Apart from that whole totenkopf thing.



TBF, The Nazis didn't draw their use from existing symbolism, the use of the death's head denoted the function of the _Totenkopfverbände_, and their job wasn't confined to incarcerating and murdering Jews and Slavs, but included doing it to Aryans too - to *any* "enemy of the state".


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The Skull and Crossbones is certainly more honest than many flags and banners. It's certainly never been used to promote nationalism or racial exclusivity.


brilliant


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, The Nazis didn't draw their use from existing symbolism, the use of the death's head denoted the function of the _Totenkopfverbände_, and their job wasn't confined to incarcerating and murdering Jews and Slavs, but included doing it to Aryans too - to *any* "enemy of the state".


what about when combat18 used it?


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The BFG?



Go suck a snozzcumber!


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> what about when combat18 used it?



Oh sorry, I missed a couple of sub-national micro-groupuscules! That's me told!


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Go suck a snozzcumber!


IIRC the Snozzcumber resembles a cucumber but differs in various respects. The snozzcumber varies from nine to twelve feet long. It is striped lengthwise black and white, with wart-like growths all over its surface. It, along with Frobscottle, is the sole diet of the BFG until he has captured the man-eaters. Having done so, he feeds them snozzcumbers for the rest of their lives – an apparent act of punishment, due to the snozzcumber's repulsive flavour. Sophie said the Snozzcumber tasted of frogskin and rotten fish. The BFG said it tasted like cockroaches and slime wanglers.

I wouldn't fancy sucking one of them!


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Oh sorry, I missed a couple of sub-national micro-groupuscules! That's me told!



I suspect I'm not the only one who thinks you missed the SS as well


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Oh sorry, I missed a couple of sub-national micro-groupuscules! That's me told!







17th lancers, british army


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## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I suspect I'm not the only one who thinks you missed the SS as well


not all the ss used it, just the totenkopf units which have already been discussed.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

chilango said:


> Conversely, Fred Perry shirts Nd leather jackets did notturn the SWP into a credible force.



Unfortunately for "Comrade Delta", they provided a ready-made fashion template that allowed people to identify him.
What a shame!


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Do Kukri's count?


As a wise man once said, "a person with a knife, who knows how to use it, can get a gun".


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> IIRC the Snozzcumber resembles a cucumber but differs in various respects. The snozzcumber varies from nine to twelve feet long. It is striped lengthwise black and white, with wart-like growths all over its surface. It, along with Frobscottle, is the sole diet of the BFG until he has captured the man-eaters. Having done so, he feeds them snozzcumbers for the rest of their lives – an apparent act of punishment, due to the snozzcumber's repulsive flavour. Sophie said the Snozzcumber tasted of frogskin and rotten fish. The BFG said it tasted like cockroaches and slime wanglers.
> 
> I wouldn't fancy sucking one of them!



That's kind of the point!


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I suspect I'm not the only one who thinks you missed the SS as well



Nope. Already mentioned the _Totenkopfverbände_. The use by that part of the SS was to denote their function as (originally) the SS unit charged with camp security. It had nothing to do with nationalist or racist symbolism, but rather about unquestioning obedience even as far as death - your own, or (more usually) someone elses'.


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## krink (Mar 18, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> TSM appears to have imploded



has it?   if true.

paging Wilf


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

krink said:


> has it?   if true.
> 
> paging Wilf



Maybe not then.  I sort of got that impression when talking to someone I bumped into, I might have got the wrong end of the stick though.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 18, 2015)

didn't they just have some big event?

(although to be fair that kind of thing often happens just before a collapse)


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## Mr.Bishie (Mar 18, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> As a wise man once said, "a person with a knife, who knows how to use it, can get a gun".



I worked with our Gurkha friends


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## Citizen66 (Mar 18, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> didn't they just have some big event?
> 
> (although to be fair that kind of thing often happens just before a collapse)



I'm totally out of the loop now it was just talk of T and L wanting to start a Teesside anarchist group, but I sort of knew of that ages ago... I got the impression TSM was in demise but I may have completely got the wrong end of the stick.


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 19, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> RCP used to be Fred Perry , Black flight jackets and gel



To be more precise MAI flight jackets, Black turtle necks (Fred Perry - summer alternative), 501's, DM shoes. Lots and lot of gel


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## Citizen66 (Mar 19, 2015)

Sports Casual.


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## sim667 (Mar 19, 2015)

Just out of interest is the pirate jolly rogers the earliest examples of skull and crossbones, or are there earlier ones?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Just out of interest is the pirate jolly rogers the earliest examples of skull and crossbones, or are there earlier ones?


yes


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## krink (Mar 19, 2015)

i buy my clothes in primarni and sports direct. 
i think i might be a scruff


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## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> in that case i hope to see the rubble outside 1 commercial street diminished by tomorrow and the front windows replaced by glaziers' plywood.


cesare there was less rubble and there was more plywood


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## Blagsta (Mar 19, 2015)

krink said:


> i buy my clothes in primarni and sports direct.
> i think i might be a scruff



TK Maxx FTW!


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 19, 2015)

when I walked into a Next wearing entirely Next clothes including shoes and underwear I knew something had to change, so I do shop in M&S and John Lewis now as well.


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## chilango (Mar 19, 2015)




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## cesare (Mar 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> cesare there was less rubble and there was more plywood


None of it my doing


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## krink (Mar 19, 2015)

Blagsta said:


> TK Maxx FTW!


Usually too pricey for me though I always look for the proper bargains.


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## Blagsta (Mar 19, 2015)

krink said:


> Usually too pricey for me though I always look for the proper bargains.



Ben Sherman shirts for £25. Bargain.


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## krink (Mar 19, 2015)

Blagsta said:


> Ben Sherman shirts for £25. Bargain.


Really? There was none in mine on Tuesday. My fave Benny is 15 years old so maybe time for a new one. I did get some class Italian shoes for work for 20 notes.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2015)

cesare said:


> None of it my doing


must try harder


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## cesare (Mar 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> must try harder


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## Wilf (Mar 20, 2015)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm totally out of the loop now it was just talk of T and L wanting to start a Teesside anarchist group, but I sort of knew of that ages ago... I got the impression TSM was in demise but I may have completely got the wrong end of the stick.


It's been a close run thing, but tsm still up and running.  It's always had a slightly unusual dynamic, which in the main has been really positive. Before I was involved, a couple of years ago I have the impression it started as a 'group of groups', though that didn't last too long. In fact it's always seem relatively un-factional, at least in the sense of crude paper-selling-party-lineism. There's been a definite anarcho drift in the group, at least in terms of ways of organising, with some resistance but not enough to stop things happening. 

What has made it feel slightly odd (and positive) has been the absence of the swp. Of late, things have got pretty hairy with a fightback from a shifting coalition of cpgb-ers and liberals (with some pretty sturdy pushing back from our side).  One individual has been a complete shit, playing games in the group and outside.  I'm not normally given to principled approaches, but as I've been highly critical of his dissing us outside the group I won't do the same about him here. Anyway... not split and had a really active day today. We did 6 sanctions demos, across Teesside with Unite Community, which was the biggest concentration on the whole national day of action. There's also been some really good initiatives such as a Socialist Clothing Bank - and there are loads of us going up to Newcastle to oppose National Action on Saturday.  Anyway, flame wars continue, but tsm survives.  Oh and yes, there is a new Anarchist Group on Teesside, which looks really positive (I'm not being deliberately coy, but we are just doing initial plans and have got webpages or anything yet).


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## Citizen66 (Mar 20, 2015)

A couple of years back it was largely politics proper vs eco. Even if the SWP weren't in presence the AWL sort of filled that roll. Cool that it's still going though.


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## TopCat (Mar 20, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Just out of interest is the pirate jolly rogers the earliest examples of skull and crossbones, or are there earlier ones?


The skull and crossed bones comes from a Deptford Church. They are still there.


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## Nigel (Mar 20, 2015)

Good luck !
Hope it goes well !


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