# The Hydrogen Sonata - new Culture novel



## Crispy (Jun 29, 2012)

http://www.orbitbooks.net/2012/06/28/cover-launch-the-hydrogen-sonata-by-iain-m-banks/

Another one so soon? Mr Banks you are spoiling us!

Back Cover Blurb:

The Scavenger species are circling. It is, truly, the End Days for the Gzilt civilization.​​An ancient people, organized on military principles and yet almost perversely peaceful, the Gzilt helped set up the Culture ten thousand years earlier and were very nearly one of its founding societies, deciding not to join only at the last moment. Now they’ve made the collective decision to follow the well-trodden path of millions of other civilizations; they are going to Sublime, elevating themselves to a new and almost infinitely more rich and complex existence.​​Amid preparations though, the Regimental High Command is destroyed. Lieutenant Commander (reserve) Vyr Cossont appears to have been involved, and she is now wanted — dead, not alive. Aided only by an ancient, reconditioned android and a suspicious Culture avatar, Cossont must complete her last mission given to her by the High Command. She must find the oldest person in the Culture, a man over nine thousand years old, who might have some idea what really happened all that time ago. It seems that the final days of the Gzilt civilization are likely to prove its most perilous.​ 
I like the sound of that. Comes out in the UK on 4th October.


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## 8ball (Jun 29, 2012)

Are these the novels with the weird talking spaceships?


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## The Octagon (Jun 29, 2012)

Timeline-wise, does that put it the furthest into the Culture's progression so far? (apart from the flashforward in Look to Windward)


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 29, 2012)

ohhh.  i've always wondered about the subliming cultures.

it seemed almost just an excuse to not have m,ore advanced species


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## Crispy (Jun 29, 2012)

8ball said:


> Are these the novels with the weird talking spaceships?


Yes.
The talking spaceships are funny and they have funny names


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## 8ball (Jun 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Yes.
> The talking spaceships are funny and they have funny names


 
Which would be a good one in the series to start on, do you reckon (assuming no major commitment to read everything)?


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## Crispy (Jun 29, 2012)

8ball said:


> Which would be a good one in the series to start on, do you reckon (assuming no major commitment to read everything)?


You will receive a series of answers, each of which will be different.

Mine is:

If you want a rollicking adventure with loads of action movie set pieces, then it's Consider Phlebas
If you want something slower, but more thoughtful and with better characterisation, then Look To Windward

IMO, of course


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## 8ball (Jun 29, 2012)

Cheers - will give them a try in that order - it's ages since I read any fiction.


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## zoooo (Jun 29, 2012)

Oh, I thought that said Santa.


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## yield (Jun 30, 2012)

A Few Notes on the Culture by Iain M Banks


> The Culture, in its history and its on-going form, is an expression of the idea that the nature of space itself determines the type of civilisations which will thrive there.
> 
> The thought processes of a tribe, a clan, a country or a nation-state are essentially two-dimensional, and the nature of their power depends on the same flatness. Territory is all-important; resources, living-space, lines of communication; all are determined by the nature of the plane (that the plane is in fact a sphere is irrelevant here); that surface, and the fact the species concerned are bound to it during their evolution, determines the mind-set of a ground-living species. The mind-set of an aquatic or avian species is, of course, rather different.
> 
> ...


 
I'm looking forward to the new one even though I haven't read Surface Detail. The Use of Weapons is still my favourite.


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## redsquirrel (Jun 30, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> Timeline-wise, does that put it the furthest into the Culture's progression so far? (apart from the flashforward in Look to Windward)


AFAIK each novel has been set after the previous one.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 30, 2012)

I should have finished plowing thorugh all this bloody game of thrones by October!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 30, 2012)

This news makes me happy. Exploring the start of the culture and sublimeing  



yield said:


> I'm looking forward to the new one even though I haven't read Surface Detail. The Use of Weapons is still my favourite.


 
Despite having a cool name, it's probably one of my least favourites along with consider, the plot doesn't seem on such an epic scale as some of the others.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 30, 2012)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> I should have finished plowing thorugh all this bloody game of thrones by October!


 
You do know it's not finished?


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## xenon (Jun 30, 2012)

Crispy said:


> You will receive a series of answers, each of which will be different.
> 
> Mine is:
> 
> ...



Agreed. But I'd say start with CP as L2W builds on the background of the Iideran war...

Actually, just read them all, in order.  

I read somewhere that this new one will be the longest Culture novel to date. Which isn't of itself a good thing of course. A lot of peple didn't like Matter. I thought plot construction was jarring to say the least. Surface Detail was decent.Another one where you get to see more of the excentric and nasty side of Special Circumstances.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 30, 2012)

xenon said:


> Agreed. But I'd say start with CP as L2W builds on the background of the Iideran war...
> 
> Actually, just read them all, in order.
> 
> I read somewhere that this new one will be the longest Culture novel to date. Which isn't of itself a good thing of course. A lot of peple didn't like Matter. I thought plot construction was jarring to say the least. Surface Detail was decent.Another one where you get to see more of the excentric and nasty side of Special Circumstances.


 
I thought jarring plot construction was a theme of the culture novels and something you learn to overlook due to the epic tales he tells. Surface Detail was pretty cool though. 

One joy of reading them all on Kindle is that you don't get overwhelmed by the sheer size when you pick them up (yes I'm a recent convert, they fitted in nicely with a period of under employment)


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## xenon (Jun 30, 2012)

Yeah but you know what I mean in Matter. You're following one story involving the humans, which is building to a criscendo of it's own. Of course wondering how the main looming theme will encompis it. Then, literally, bang! It annoyed me at the time. But I suppose you could see it as underlining the idea there's always another entaty out there bigger and badder than you and operating to it's own agenda.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 30, 2012)

xenon said:


> Yeah but you know what I mean in Matter. You're following one story involving the humans, which is building to a criscendo of it's own. Of course wondering how the main looming theme will encompis it. Then, literally, bang! It annoyed me at the time. But I suppose you could see it as underlining the idea there's always another entaty out there bigger and badder than you and operating to it's own agenda.


 
I guess it's hard for any author that trys to keep multiple plot's running. I read all the Culture novels and Game of Thrones in the same period and got frustrated by both doing the same thing, but if it's well written you get into the other characters soon enough. 

I'm actually quite inspired now to go back and reread them, taking them all in a month means you do tend to forget bits!


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## xenon (Jun 30, 2012)

Yeah, I've reread a couple of the Culture ones. Did A Song of Ice and Fire last summer. I might cheat and read the wiki on it to refresh. Good thing about ebooks of course, if you remember a character's name but don't know when they first appeared, and no wiki, you can just do a text search.


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## xenon (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm gonna reread Matter soon. In the midst of the Count of Monte Cristo ATM.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 1, 2012)

xenon said:


> Yeah, I've reread a couple of the Culture ones. Did A Song of Ice and Fire last summer. I might cheat and read the wiki on it to refresh. Good thing about ebooks of course, if you remember a character's name but don't know when they first appeared, and no wiki, you can just do a text search.


 
I've never thought to do that. 

Think the difference between the two is that I don't know if can be arsed to reread the whole song of ice and fire books when the new ones comes out, so I'll probably wiki it, but since the culture books stand alone, I'm more inclined to pick one up again now I'm working very full time and sadly don't have loads of time to read.


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## Corax (Jul 1, 2012)

I've read every I M Banks novel going, but I refuse to read this one until someone tells me that the cunt has learned _*how to fucking write a fucking ending.*_


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## xenon (Jul 1, 2012)

I've read a few peple say that about getting M Banks' new one.


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## Belushi (Jul 1, 2012)

The last couple have been fairly shit, I only really rate Consider Phlebas, Look to Windward and Excession.


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## Corax (Jul 1, 2012)

Belushi said:


> The last couple have been fairly shit, I only really rate Consider Phlebas, Look to Windward and Excession.


Use of Weapons was very good I thought, as was Player of Games. But none of them have any sort of ending, they just... stop.


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## machine cat (Jul 1, 2012)

Corax said:


> I've read every I M Banks novel going, but I refuse to read this one until someone tells me that the cunt has learned _*how to fucking write a fucking ending.*_


 
You say this every time Banks or the Culture is mentioned here


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## Corax (Jul 1, 2012)

machine cat said:


> You say this every time Banks or the Culture is mentioned here


Do I? 

I guess I must really think it then!

I'll probably carry on saying it until the fuckstand learns to spell denouemont.*

And despite that, the top shelf of my bookcase consists entirely of Banks & Reynolds.

*Yes....


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## machine cat (Jul 1, 2012)

Corax said:


> Do I?
> 
> I guess I must really think it then!
> 
> ...


 



I think we have the same bookcase


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## tommers (Jul 1, 2012)

Excession surely? And use of weapons.  Hell, I liked the algebraist too.

I am getting a bit tired of the 'female agent, cranky robot' partnerships though.


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## The Octagon (Oct 10, 2012)

Arrived today (although it's hardback when I ordered paperback )

Looking forward to an evening in an empty house with some coffee, cigarettes and The Culture.


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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2012)

Ooooooh, forgot about this 

Paperback won't be out for a while, so be glad you got the hardback instead


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## el-ahrairah (Oct 10, 2012)

i got my copy on monday.  am about halfway through.  so far it's pretty standard fare, not one of his best.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2012)

yeah, he's been off the boil for ages. I'll torrent an epub tho.


aand before anyone starts I've paid cash money for at least 10 banks books so he owes me a freebie


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## 8ball (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm half-way through Consider Phlebas.  Definitely a good old Space Western stylee romp.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 10, 2012)

Kindle version is only 50p cheaper then the hardback!

It's on the Pirate Bay mind.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 10, 2012)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> ohhh. i've always wondered about the subliming cultures.
> 
> it seemed almost just an excuse to not have m,ore advanced species


 
Banks does address this in some of his books. The idea is that the Culture, and various other civilisations, are as advanced as it's possible for organic lifeforms to get. They have unlimited energy, can travel unlimited distances, manipulate matter on an unlimited scale and have limitless control over their own physiology. They are capable of building 'perfect' artificial intelligences capable of an objective understanding of everything in the universe, but these AI's always sublime straight away, indicating that at a certain level of enlightenment the only logical thing is to abandon material form entirely. The culture is intended as an illustration of the most advanced civilisation that could exist as material beings.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 10, 2012)

The previous culture book felt a bit by-the-numbers. Someone gets taken a long way from their normal environment and has all sorts of crazy shit and exposition to adjust to; something really evil is going on somewhere involving graphic descriptions of unpleasantness; a sub-plot involving unusual narrative devices occurs for no particular reason; the evil thing has to be dealt with by various smug spaceships with secret plans, a big space battle and an anticlimactic ending. The protagonist doesn't at any point have anything much to do but sit around listening to computers and robots talking down to them.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2012)

aye, its a long time since we've had something as thoughtful as Look to Windward or as subtle as Inversions


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## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 10, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> Banks does address this in some of his books. The idea is that the Culture, and various other civilisations, are as advanced as it's possible for organic lifeforms to get. They have unlimited energy, can travel unlimited distances, manipulate matter on an unlimited scale and have limitless control over their own physiology. They are capable of building 'perfect' artificial intelligences capable of an objective understanding of everything in the universe, but these AI's always sublime straight away, indicating that at a certain level of enlightenment the only logical thing is to abandon material form entirely. The culture is intended as an illustration of the most advanced civilisation that could exist as material beings.


 

well apart from the excession


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## The Octagon (Oct 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Ooooooh, forgot about this
> 
> Paperback won't be out for a while, so be glad you got the hardback instead


 
I have just realised this, not sure why I thought the paperback would be out straight away 

Can't believe the kindle version is the same price as the hardback.


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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> I have just realised this, not sure why I thought the paperback would be out straight away
> 
> Can't believe the kindle version is the same price as the hardback.


http://michaelhyatt.com/why-do-ebooks-cost-so-much.html

manufacturing and distribution are only 12% of the cost of a book.


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## The Octagon (Oct 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> http://michaelhyatt.com/why-do-ebooks-cost-so-much.html
> 
> manufacturing and distribution are only 12% of the cost of a book.


 
Interesting.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 10, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> The previous culture book felt a bit by-the-numbers. Someone gets taken a long way from their normal environment and has all sorts of crazy shit and exposition to adjust to; something really evil is going on somewhere involving graphic descriptions of unpleasantness; a sub-plot involving unusual narrative devices occurs for no particular reason; the evil thing has to be dealt with by various smug spaceships with secret plans, a big space battle and an anticlimactic ending. The protagonist doesn't at any point have anything much to do but sit around listening to computers and robots talking down to them.


 
Don't get me wrong, it's a good story. But Banks nailed it with Excession and doesn't need to keep doing it over and over again.


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## The Octagon (Oct 10, 2012)

I think the sad thing is I could read a full book based on one normal culture citizen wandering around a GSV over the course of a month 

The space battles (ship to ship at least) almost seem absurd to me because they happen so quickly and there's no real sense of destruction.


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## Corax (Oct 10, 2012)

Corax said:


> I've read every I M Banks novel going, but I refuse to read this one until someone tells me that the cunt has learned _*how to fucking write a fucking ending.*_





machine cat said:


> You say this every time Banks or the Culture is mentioned here


I saw the thread title pop up, forgot I'd posted on it already, and almost posted the same thing yet again.

I may be going senile.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 10, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> I think the sad thing is I could read a full book based on one normal culture citizen wandering around a GSV over the course of a month


 
Most of Look to Windward was about two non-culture aliens wandering around looking at stuff and that was a wonderful book.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 10, 2012)

Ha!  noticed  that  my pre-order was for the  paperback not the hardback.  no wonder it didn't turn up.

settled for  buying the kindle one.


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## xenon (Oct 10, 2012)

Saw him do Q&A at Waterstones on Friday. Was gonna wait til next month but got audiobook from Audible with the sign up, get it cheap thing. Just started it tonight. Have been reading a Dan Simmons too. It's gonna get confusing...

IIRC in Banks' Matter, it's hinted the Culture aren't the most advanced civ of the IN play. At least, you see some others there and their relationship to mentoring civilisations.


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## Supine (Oct 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> http://michaelhyatt.com/why-do-ebooks-cost-so-much.html
> 
> manufacturing and distribution are only 12% of the cost of a book.




I think he's talking bollocks.

The extra costs he talks about are minimal as they are spread over all the sales of books. They're far cheaper than physical printing and distribution which is incurred for every physical copy sold. He's probably biased as an industry insider or something. Ebooks are currently a total con in terms of sale price.

Think I might head down to a bookshop tomorrow to get this book. Having finished game of thrones I need a new challenge!


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## stuff_it (Oct 10, 2012)

So is it good or shit? Should I just wait till it's cheaper or are we talking epic here?


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## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2012)

excellent ship name 1:


Melancholia Enshrines All Triumph


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## Bob_the_lost (Oct 13, 2012)

I thought Meat swanned off in the excession, or is it a reference?


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## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2012)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I thought Meat swanned off in the excession, or is it a reference?


 

not a name of a Culture ship.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 17, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> So is it good or shit? Should I just wait till it's cheaper or are we talking epic here?


 


I'll give it a 6/10

It's easily the most Mind heavy book since Excession, and the details of Subliming are pretty cool. Theres lots of typical Banks flourishes. However the peril in itself is not very perilous and overall this is a flaw that undermines the whole yarn. Its a maybe-if-well we better do something just in case-oh well didn't matter anyway. Which while not quite stig of the dump level is still pretty annoying.

Don't waste yer P's. If you want an .epub or .mobi copy pm an email addy and I'll send it as attatchment


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## stuff_it (Oct 17, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I'll give it a 6/10
> 
> It's easily the most Mind heavy book since Excession, and the details of Subliming are pretty cool. Theres lots of typical Banks flourishes. However the peril in itself is not very perilous and overall this is a flaw that undermines the whole yarn. Its a maybe-if-well we better do something just in case-oh well didn't matter anyway. Which while not quite stig of the dump level is still pretty annoying.
> 
> Don't waste yer P's. If you want an .epub or .mobi copy pm an email addy and I'll send it as attatchment


I wouldn't mind, despite the fact that I haven't quite worked out converting stuff to a pdf or azw that works yet.... I guess I could read it at the PC. Ty!


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## crustychick (Oct 17, 2012)

oooh, would love to read this. I re-read all the Culture books in order quite recently, which was fun. I could happily read them all again! I loved Surface Detail.


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## tendril (Oct 17, 2012)

just got this and started it today


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 3, 2012)

i liked it in the end.

better than the last two i think


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## bouncer_the_dog (Nov 4, 2012)

I really liked Matter. I don't know why people don't like it. I preferred Matter to Surface detail. Ofc Excession is awesome. I thought he pulled back in the scope of THS - it seemed to be the book most filmable. Endings wise I think Matter had an excellent end. SD and this... a bit meh


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## The Octagon (Dec 17, 2012)

Just finished this today (got distracted by ASOIAF). 

Another shit ending mars what was an interesting yarn


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## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2012)

unduly harsh. Yes the ending was shit but we were getting signalled about the peril being entirely un perilious from the get go. It undermines the work but despite that it iss the best Banks in a while.


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## Corax (Dec 17, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> Another shit ending





DotCommunist said:


> Yes the ending was shit




Has anyone told him this yet?  Do you think he knows?

If anyone, like xenon did, goes to a signing - can they please pass the fucking message on?

Now I'm conflicted.  Do I read this one, knowing that I'll enjoy the story but yet again come away with nothing but disappointment and anticlimax?  Or do I spend my time and money on a new author instead?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 17, 2012)

It's a Culture novel. Of course the ending was shit. You'll still read it.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2012)

Look to Windwards is the only culture novel with a good ending. Yet still we toil in the garden of Ian


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## Corax (Dec 17, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> It's a Culture novel. Of course the ending was shit. You'll still read it.


Probably.

But afterwards, I may well hunt him down and stab him in the nadgers with a cheap fork.


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## mauvais (Dec 17, 2012)

Does it have anything to do with this?


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 17, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> Look to Windwards is the only culture novel with a good ending. Yet still we toil in the garden of Ian


 
It was the same old anti-climax, it just worked better in the context of the story.

Use of Weapons has the best ending, a real  moment.


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## The Octagon (Dec 17, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> unduly harsh. Yes the ending was shit but we were getting signalled about the peril being entirely un perilious from the get go. It undermines the work but despite that it iss the best Banks in a while.



I'd say my objection was more with the rushed 'here's a paragraph that wraps up each characters part in the story' aspect, it feels unbalanced compared to the steady build up. 

Plus, if he's written the narrative to be devoid of serious peril, that's an issue in itself! 

Also, what was the point of the Zoologist Mind side plot?


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## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2012)

The Octagon said:


> I'd say my objection was more with the rushed 'here's a paragraph that wraps up each characters part in the story' aspect, it feels unbalanced compared to the steady build up.
> 
> Plus, if he's written the narrative to be devoid of serious peril, that's an issue in itself!
> 
> Also, what was the point of the Zoologist Mind side plot?


 

I believe that wassimply to show that even Minds cannot comprehend the ineffable or even translate it back once having embraced it and come back.

I was waiting for that Mind to do something inexplicbly cruel and elegant for reasons unfathomable.

its a muted sonata right enough. Still I think it the best Ian has turned out in a good few years.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 30, 2013)

The paperback isn't coming out till September.


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## 8den (Mar 31, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> The paperback isn't coming out till September.


 
I have it in paperback. And its terrible. Dotc's review a few posts back is spot on.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 1, 2013)

8den said:


> I have it in paperback. And its terrible. Dotc's review a few posts back is spot on.


 
Amazon was telling me September. 

I thought it was alright, read it on Kindle. I wanted to buy it as a present for my old man.


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