# Doctor Who Series 8



## CNT36 (Dec 9, 2013)

http://www.cultbox.co.uk/news/headlines/8681-doctor-who-series-8-wont-be-split-confirms-moffat

I'm glad to hear it won't be split into two. I have found it a bit annoying to say the least.


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## Maurice Picarda (Dec 9, 2013)

It's not Series 8.


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## Awesome Wells (Dec 9, 2013)

So if they have yet to start filming (it's usually broadcast from Easter), there'll be no preview package at the end of the xmas episode? That's a shame. Be nice to see more of Capaldi.

Speaking of whom, a few months ago at an awards bash the P Man was spouting a fatching vangogh beard much as John Hurt wore in Day of the Doctor. I bet that's a part of his look for the new Who.

In fact I'm so convinced I will wager Four Thousand Gallifreyan Groats.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2013)

I'm really looking forward to the inevitable youtube mash ups that take dialouge from thick of it and synch it with video from Who in order to make it look like the Doc is now a foul mouthed bastard


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## Awesome Wells (Dec 9, 2013)

I want Nicola Murray for a companion. I think she'll find the Tardis more spacious than a claustrophobic lift.


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## ginger_syn (Dec 10, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> http://www.cultbox.co.uk/news/headlines/8681-doctor-who-series-8-wont-be-split-confirms-moffat
> 
> I'm glad to hear it won't be split into two. I have found it a bit annoying to say the least.


I'm not sure I'll believe it until series eight ends


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## captainmission (Dec 10, 2013)

> We'll find out [in the Christmas special] that Matt Smith is actually the 13th Doctor. Although everyone knows that the Doctor can only regenerate 12 times.
> 
> That 12 times limit is a central part of _Doctor Who_ mythology - and science fiction is all about rules, right? So if the Doctor can never change again, what's Peter Capaldi doing in the Christmas Special?



So sayeth Moffat. So either capaldi is a previous doctor or the dr finds a 1up somewhere.


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## strung out (Dec 10, 2013)

I suspect there's going to be something about the 'regeneration' Tennant's Doctor used up in Journey's End


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## captainmission (Dec 10, 2013)

or capaldi is the valeyard and we get a series of a evil Doctor.


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 10, 2013)

Nope, Smith is the final incarnation of the Doctor, hence Trenzalor. Capaldi is a new time lord altogether, the Administrator. Not as fun as the Doctor, but he never runs out of stationery.

(Side note: there's been plenty of reference to Capaldi's Doctor as The Spin Doctor, yes? I mean, there must have been. right?)


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## strung out (Dec 11, 2013)

This is quite good (if a bit cheesy)


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## danny la rouge (Dec 11, 2013)

captainmission said:


> So sayeth Moffat. So either capaldi is a previous doctor or the dr finds a 1up somewhere.


He sayeth many things:


> Speaking at the Doctor Who 50th Celebration at London's ExCel, Moffat said: "He has no more ever called himself the 11th Doctor than he would call himself Matt Smith. The Doctor doesn't know off the top of his head [what number he is].
> 
> "If you worry about such things, and I do, then I specifically said John Hurt's Doctor doesn't use the title. [Matt Smith's Doctor] is in his 12th body but he's the 11th Doctor, however there is no such character as the 11th Doctor - he's just The Doctor, that's what he calls himself.
> 
> ...



Another thing.  We did see Capaldi helping out in the whole moving the planet thing. 

However, he isn't here, though the "War Doctor" is:







Clearly the story will be about how the Doctor is awarded more regenerations.  My guess is that it's a reward for saving Gallifrey


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## captainmission (Dec 11, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> He sayeth many things:
> 
> 
> Another thing.  We did see Capaldi helping out in the whole moving the planet thing.
> ...



that may be just cos they have decided or don't want to reveal his outfit yet


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## DotCommunist (Dec 11, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> He sayeth many things:
> 
> 
> Another thing.  We did see Capaldi helping out in the whole moving the planet thing.
> ...



Or, because the sisters of mercy already gave Mgann a drink that was 'more advanced time lord science' and so has reset the clock which would be more logical


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## danny la rouge (Dec 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Or, because the sisters of mercy already gave Mgann a drink that was 'more advanced time lord science' and so has reset the clock which would be more logical


I'm not sure logic has much to do with it! 

So, he didn't know that the regeneration limit had already been reset? McGann - Hurt, Hurt - Eccles cake, Eccles cake - Ten-inch, Ten-inch - Smith. That's four regenerations, and possibly another, that are already reset? (Unknown to the Doctor and us).


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## danny la rouge (Dec 11, 2013)

captainmission said:


> that may be just cos they have decided or don't want to reveal his outfit yet


I hope it's not Coco the Fucking Eighties Clown.


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## Awesome Wells (Dec 11, 2013)

captainmission said:


> that may be just cos they have decided or don't want to reveal his outfit yet


He's going to be starkers. Like that naked rambler bloke who keeps getting arrested. The entire season is going to be hime wandering around in a pair of sneakers with a knapsack walking butt naked on alien worlds and scaring the natives.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 11, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not sure logic has much to do with it!
> 
> So, he didn't know that the regeneration limit had already been reset? McGann - Hurt, Hurt - Eccles cake, Eccles cake - Ten-inch, Ten-inch - Smith. That's four regenerations, and possibly another, that are already reset? (Unknown to the Doctor and us).



'The one who forgets'

doc has redacted his own memories.


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## youngian (Dec 11, 2013)

captainmission said:


> So sayeth Moffat. So either capaldi is a previous doctor or the dr finds a 1up somewhere.





> That 12 times limit is a central part of _Doctor Who_ mythology - and science fiction is all about rules, right?



Moffat said that? I think he's teasing somewhat. The Doctor's exposure to the reverse polarity transmogrifier restoration vortex matrix will allow him to regenerate another ten times. Now can we get on.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> 'The one who forgets'
> 
> doc has redacted his own memories.


Oh, OK.  Is that a thing?  'The one who forgets'?


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## DotCommunist (Dec 11, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, OK.  Is that a thing?  'The one who forgets'?


its a get out  like 'the doctor lies'


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## ginger_syn (Dec 12, 2013)

any one seen the trailer for the Christmas special yet,  looks interesting.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 12, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> any one seen the trailer for the Christmas special yet,  looks interesting.


No, so I looked and found this, for the American audience: http://variety.com/2013/tv/news/doctor-who-christmas-trailer-1200945840/


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## ginger_syn (Dec 12, 2013)

they've aired it on BBC1 and the only difference is the still at the end. I would have done a link but am using a phone


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## DotCommunist (Jan 21, 2014)




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## fen_boy (Jan 27, 2014)




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## Maurice Picarda (Jan 27, 2014)

Dammit. First I couldn't wear my fez any more, now my brogue boots will have to be jettisoned as fanboyish.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 27, 2014)

very  pertwee


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## DotCommunist (Jan 27, 2014)

pertwee would never have worn those shoe/boot crossovers


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## fen_boy (Jan 27, 2014)




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## strung out (Jan 27, 2014)




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## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> pertwee would never have worn those shoe/boot crossovers



just a suit full of straw


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## spanglechick (Jan 27, 2014)

fen_boy said:


>


i did fear that top-button-done-up-with-no-tie thing in the xmas episode was a precursor.  it's a difficult look to pull off, especially for an older jowl.  

I like the rest of it, though.  The red lining is splendid, and that looks like a french cuff on the shirt, which is always sexy.


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## RedDragon (Jan 27, 2014)

Is that a lambs wool cardigan?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 27, 2014)

do your bloody jacket up and  just get a cape


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## barney_pig (Jan 28, 2014)

Crombie, docs, and a chunky knit cardigan? capaldi is only a grade 1 away from 1980s me.


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## Awesome Wells (Jan 28, 2014)

Needs more cowbell, but I would settle for cape!


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## QueenOfGoths (Jan 28, 2014)

I am happy with it! And happy with the Jon Pertwee references

Btw if anyone ever gets to see the swinging sixties part of the BFI's "Roll out the Barrel" compilation of pub documentaries Pertwee singing that number in a German helmet is a joy to behold


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## ruffneck23 (Jan 28, 2014)

Dont like it , he looks like a revenue protection inspector


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## RedDragon (Jan 28, 2014)

I'm also not so keen on the Charles Saatchi shirt thing - perhaps it could be adapted more towards Harry Hill.


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## gosub (Jan 28, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> I'm also not so keen on the Charles Saatchi shirt thing - perhaps it could be adapted more towards Harry Hill.




Charles Saatchi would have been a good choice for the Doctor, I have no difficulty believing he is from another planet.  (Not that keen on his ex wife either mind)


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## ginger_syn (Jan 29, 2014)

it's a good look,  love the jacket it's both restrained and flamboyant but I'm not  keen on the overly glossy boots.


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## Awesome Wells (Jan 29, 2014)

It look like the cover for an album of easy listening entitled

'Doctor Who Plays For You'


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## ginger_syn (Jan 30, 2014)

I have to disagree with you because you are wrong. It looks like a poster for a west end musical with the phrase " a majestic tour de force" occurring somewhere in blurb


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## Bluesree (Feb 1, 2014)

Why is Pertwee making the sign of the devil in that photo?


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 29, 2014)

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/d...te-title-for-feature-length-premiere-set.html


23rd August , Doctor Who : Capaldi edition


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## belboid (Jun 30, 2014)

ruffneck23 said:


> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/d...te-title-for-feature-length-premiere-set.html
> 
> 
> 23rd August , Doctor Who : Capaldi edition


Michelle Gomez


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## 1927 (Jun 30, 2014)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/doctor-who-series-8-filming-7345456


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 30, 2014)

I'd love Michelle Gomez to be a recurring Who character, something I've wanted ever since admiring her in Green Wing.


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 30, 2014)

Nice , like that article


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 30, 2014)

She is indeed wicked ( and mental )


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## AverageJoe (Jun 30, 2014)

Spoilers!!!


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## AverageJoe (Jun 30, 2014)

Thats from the episode "Robots of Sherwood"

srsly.


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 30, 2014)

Ha


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## belboid (Jul 8, 2014)

So has anyone read any of these leaked scripts then?  I dont think I want to really, but am tempted, just to see if it's the writing or direction that lets things down


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 8, 2014)

belboid said:


> So has anyone read any of these leaked scripts then?  I dont think I want to really, but am tempted, just to see if it's the writing or direction that lets things down



I read the first half of the first episode, but struggled to read the Doctor's part in anything other than Matt Smith's voice/persona, so gave up. Some of it is cheezy as hell in written form, but who knows how it'll work on screen?


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## belboid (Jul 8, 2014)

I got onto page 6 of the first one. I couldn't help but read the Doctor as Malcolm Tucker (who is so temporarily confused, he's forgotten how to swear)


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## Balbi (Jul 8, 2014)

I managed 30 pages of the first episode, and basically - well. Er. No.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2014)

not going to ruin this for myself before it gets ruined by the tv


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 8, 2014)

This ^^^


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## Nine Bob Note (Jul 8, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> pertwee would never have worn those shoe/boot crossovers



I imagine he'd roll in his grave at the thought of his action figures' longterm viability revolving around the switching of his jacket/trouser cominations. Repainted cyberman with 'new hat accessory' was one thing, but now the third doctor is happy to wear a tuxedo jacket with riding breeches, even after Labor Day.

# My Action Figure Pr0n Thread


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 9, 2014)

Has he laid his first solid egg of timey wimey fuck?


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## ginger_syn (Jul 10, 2014)

belboid said:


> So has anyone read any of these leaked scripts then?  I dont think I want to really, but am tempted, just to see if it's the writing or direction that lets things down


no, I generally stay spoiler free and I'm looking forward to the new series and Peter Capaldi, who is already one of my favourite doctors because he signed my tardis postcard


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 10, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> no, I generally stay spoiler free and I'm looking forward to the new series and Peter Capaldi, who is already one of my favourite doctors because he signed my tardis postcard



The srcipts are supposedly draft versions anyway. And Matt Smith was able to turn all sorts of dreck into watchable telly, I'm sure Capaldi will do the same.


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## belboid (Jul 10, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> The srcipts are supposedly draft versions anyway.


they're not, they're the post-production scripts, so will be almost exactly what we see and hear.

It'll be interesting to read them afterwards, to try to work out where it all went wrong (and where bits that seem daft on the page are lifted into marvellousness)


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 10, 2014)

Are they really that bad?


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 10, 2014)

And if I wanted to find them where might I look


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## belboid (Jul 10, 2014)

Only read a little bit of the first one, seemed fine to me.


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## belboid (Jul 10, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> And if I wanted to find them where might I look


I now see the place I found them has had them pulled, probly on some torrent sites (checks, yes, they're on tpb)


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 11, 2014)

Well I read the first scene of episode one, seems entertaining enough. Think I'll wait til it's actually on telly and not bother with the rest of the scripts.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 13, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p022sxks


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## Quartz (Jul 13, 2014)

Dinosaurs in London, Madam Vastra, Daleks, more Daleks, a Dalek in the Tardis, the Borg, and what was the android (?) with the purple T on its face? I'm sure we've seen them before.

Bring it on!


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## CNT36 (Jul 14, 2014)

Pretty sure we've seen it all before. Dinosaurs in London? At least twice, Madam Vastra? Yep. Various quantities of Daleks? Aye. A Dalek in the Tardis? Yes.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 15, 2014)

The first episode (or at least a black and white, unfinished-CGI version thereof) has leaked too.


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## CNT36 (Jul 15, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The first episode (or at least a black and white, unfinished-CGI version thereof) has leaked too.


I blame the new boy. He has form - https://www.facebook.com/TheGooldingInquiry


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2014)

out of curiosity what numbers were the series from 1963 to c.2007?


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## CNT36 (Jul 15, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> out of curiosity what numbers were the series from 1963 to c.2007?


McCoy ended with season/series 26.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> McCoy ended with season/series 26.


so this season 8 is utter nonsense, designed only to beguile the suggestible


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## DotCommunist (Jul 15, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> so this season 8 is utter nonsense, designed only to beguile the suggestible




The distinction is made, NW or OW

like AD and BC. Before the coming of Mgann.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 15, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The first episode (or at least a black and white, unfinished-CGI version thereof) has leaked too.




whats the point, sometimes its the CGI alone that saves a weak episode.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> out of curiosity what numbers were the series from 1963 to c.2007?



The original run had 'seasons', the 2005 resurrected version has 'series' so this is the first _series_ 8 of Doctor Who.

I suspect they changed it to make selling DVD's of the news stuff less confusing for punters, particularly punters who weren't born when McCoy was the Doctor.


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## gosub (Jul 16, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> The original run had 'seasons', the 2005 resurrected version has 'series' so this is the first _series_ 8 of Doctor Who.
> 
> I suspect they changed it to make selling DVD's of the news stuff less confusing for punters, particularly punters who weren't born when McCoy was the Doctor.


more grand parents of punters, tasked with getting a Xmas pressie


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## ginger_syn (Jul 16, 2014)

is there any need to make a distinction, it's all Doctor Who at the end of the day


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## Santino (Jul 16, 2014)

It's also because of the Time War.


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## Lazy Llama (Jul 23, 2014)

Found out I've got tickets for a preview screening of the first episode at the NFT on 7th Aug, with Peter Capaldi and other cast/crew in attendance. Quite pleased


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## Quartz (Jul 23, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Found out I've got tickets for a preview screening of the first episode at the NFT on 7th Aug



I'm very jealous.


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## ruffneck23 (Jul 23, 2014)

wel jel


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## gosub (Aug 7, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Found out I've got tickets for a preview screening of the first episode at the NFT on 7th Aug, with Peter Capaldi and other cast/crew in attendance. Quite pleased




AND?


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 7, 2014)

Oh yes!

Enjoyed it. 

More later, probably.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> Pretty sure we've seen it all before. Dinosaurs in London? At least twice, Madam Vastra? Yep. Various quantities of Daleks? Aye. A Dalek in the Tardis? Yes.



There's a bit where Madame Vastra throws back her veil while saying a witty bit of dialogue. Again.


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 7, 2014)

So...

Introduction by the Head of BBC1 and then into the episode.

New titles! Cogs!

Not the greatest storyline, but quite a lot of good scenes, very well played by Capaldi.

The dinosaur is fairly incidental and it's not really explained quite why it's so huge. The plot refers back to one of Moffat's earlier episodes, The Girl In The Fireplace.

Scenes are longer and slower than previous series, and I think that helps hold things together rather than the manic sense that came from the last season or two. Interaction between Capaldi and Coleman is (sensibly) more mature and apparently develops in interesting ways as the series progresses.

Some great lines, "I'm Scottish? So I can complain about things!", and references to the current Scottish independence question.

New Tardis console room - usual line.

Lots of old faces (Vastra et al), Michelle Gomez makes her first appearance at the end too. She's as fabulous as you'd hope.
And there's a "surprise" appearance.

Afterwards there was a Q&A hosted by a critic with Steven Moffat, Jenna Coleman and Peter Capaldi.

Will they be bringing The Master back? No.
Who else would Capaldi have liked to see play the Doctor if he hadn't got the part? It wasn't the time for anyone else.
Did Capaldi consider a different accent? No, it's about making the Doctor part of him.

That'll do for now.
 
Here's a picture of the top of Peter Capaldi's head while he was signing autographs for the queue of fans afterwards.


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## ginger_syn (Aug 8, 2014)

is there nowhere safe left any more


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## belboid (Aug 8, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> There's a bit where Madame Vastra throws back her veil while saying a witty bit of dialogue. Again.


Fucking A


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## Quartz (Aug 8, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> The dinosaur is fairly incidental and it's not really explained quite why it's so huge. The plot refers back to one of Moffat's earlier episodes, The Girl In The Fireplace.



That bodes well.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 18, 2014)

Is it written by Moffat?
Does it make sense?


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Is it written by Moffat?
> Does it make sense?


Yes, and mostly.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 18, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Yes, and mostly.


i'm looking forward to it, but I hope to lucifer its not another Moffat Metaplot


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## Pingu (Aug 23, 2014)

is it just me or is there less excitement surrounding this series launch?

my nephew (who i am taking to the pictures tonight to see it) is as giddy as a kitten in a catnip factory but eleswhere not seeing much tbh


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## ruffneck23 (Aug 23, 2014)

dunno, seems like quite a lot of intrigue into just what Peter Capaldi is going to do with this doctor. But thats mainly from older people.

Everyone I know who likes Doctor Who cant wait 

oh and standsted airport has it on the arrivals board


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## ruffneck23 (Aug 23, 2014)

I am so bored on the build up being one of those bank holidays when i get paid the day after   , I found this...



not as crap as it looks, well it is a bit naff


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 23, 2014)

Is this on tonight? 
If so what time?


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 23, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Is this on tonight?
> If so what time?


Yes, 7:50. 

BBC1 and some cinemas.


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## dessiato (Aug 23, 2014)

I have a new projector which will be used for the event. I will use it at about 80" diagonal screen size, I shall use my new speakers for sound. I'm really looking forward to this. I might watch the last episode of season 7 as a test run.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 23, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Yes, 7:50.
> 
> BBC1 and some cinemas.


Thanks . It will be the first time I have watched telly in weeks.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2014)

> New titles! Cogs!



that was actually a piece of fan footage someone did for youtube, apparently moff loved it so much he used the idea


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 23, 2014)

PLease please please don't be shit.


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## Santino (Aug 23, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Thanks . It will be the first time I have watched telly in weeks.


Why put us all through it?


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## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2014)

I'm going to get the projector and screen out. And buy some butterkist toffee popcorn. Might take pro/con notes for a later review.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 23, 2014)

Santino said:


> Why put us all through it?


I don't understand.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

He's old enough to be her father!


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## danny la rouge (Aug 23, 2014)

I'm quite excited. 

Not least since we haven't got many weeks before the BBC stop us getting Dr Who up here, unless we sign up for the Pioneer Corps.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 23, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't understand.


We all think you'll hate it, then come back here and tell us why.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm quite excited.
> 
> Not least since we haven't got many weeks before the BBC stop us getting Dr Who up here, unless we sign up for the Pioneer Corps.




have you managed to snag some of them chocolate coins with salmonds face on? I recon they will be worth money as bizarre political ephemera in the future.



Getting excited now. Doctor Malcom in the hiz-ouse


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## danny la rouge (Aug 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> have you managed to snag some of them chocolate coins with salmonds face on? I recon they will be worth money as bizarre political ephemera in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> Getting excited now. Doctor Malcom in the hiz-ouse


No chocolate memorabilia is going to last long enough to realise its antique value in this house. 

It's fever pitch here. I've read the RT article and everything, man.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 23, 2014)

I liked that.


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## QueenOfGoths (Aug 23, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked that.


Me too!

And I think he'll be an excellent doctor


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

To the internets!


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## DexterTCN (Aug 23, 2014)

Ser Dontas was in it   Also that guy from Luther and the Ben Wheatley film.

Also...I'm Scottish, I get to complain. 

Decent enough return.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 23, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked that.



Me too, slower paced (after the wacky post-regen hi-jinks anyway), and pleasingly dark at points. The score was very different from the usual bombast too. Capaldi is gonna be great, and Coleman was at last allowed to do something.


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 23, 2014)

So there you go.

I enjoyed it second time around too.

"Don't look in that mirror, it's absolutely furious!"

Steven Moffat asked everyone at the previews to not mention Matt Smith's appearance.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

Watching TV properly, on a saturday evening in late August early Autumn and it's now dark outside +10points
Clara Oswald getting to have some relevance and delivering +10 points
Strax +50 points
No Matt Smith +100 points
Matt Smith -75 points.
Malcolm Timelord +105 points
Floating Testicle Balloon -/+ ?points
Daleks next week +1000 points
Weepy Help Me Clara I'm Confused Doctor -30 point
Lesbian Ninja Lizard +20 points
Lesbian Dodgy Accent Ninja Housemaid -15 points
Clocks +20points
Possible Rani Big Bad +20points
Possible Moffat Metaplot -?points

I'd happily watch a spinoff with Jenny, Lizard Lesbian, and Strax - though Jenny's accent is atrocious cor blimey!

Overall, very promising. But the end was shite. FFS why hobble the new guy with Matt Smith. I'm sick of Matt Smith. He was shit.


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 23, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> But the end was shite.


Michelle Gomez can do little wrong in my world.

Ah, I see you added you meant the Matt Smith bit.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

Capaldi is not a shit actor. Why does he need to be hobbled out the starting gate by giving over to Smith to reassure us that Capaldi is the new Doctor Who. That's piss poor writing.

And if that woman turns out to be River Song, I will not be pleased!


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## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2014)

a strong start, some excellent strax. 

'my lungs contain oxygen' or 'fan service, here comes the silurian-human lesbian kiss'


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## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 23, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> FFS why hobble the new guy with Matt Smith. I'm sick of Matt Smith. He was shit.



Remember that you are (probably, it's hard to tell sometimes) not a pre-teen who has grown up with a relatively young Doctor. That bit was for a certain segment of the audience.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

Perhaps it's post modern commentary on the Katy Manning (Jo grant) posing naked next to a Dalek incident from the seventies.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 23, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> And if that woman turns out to be River Song, I will not be pleased!



Missy = Master?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Remember that you are (probably, it's hard to tell sometimes) not a pre-teen who has grown up with a relatively young Doctor. That bit was for a certain segment of the audience.



They must be destroyed.


----------



## Quartz (Aug 23, 2014)

That was shit.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Missy = Master?


I hope not. 
The last time he appeared was bizarre and terrible.
Perhaps his wife, at the end of the episode where he takes ove r the world she picks up his ring.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 23, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> They must be destroyed.



Hahaha, we appear to have an actual Dalek on the forums


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2014)

yep, the doctors regenerations are always played chaotic and etc to reflect the internal logic AND to acclimatize viewers too young to have seen a regeneration.

The vieled conversation between sexy silurian and clara was quite good as well.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

TBF though, Clara should have taken her clothes off, as Strax asked.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2014)

In analysis I think capaldi has the intensity down pat, remains to be seen how well he can do the scatterbrained loon bit- this was OK in that regard but he was able to ham it up because post-regeneration fugue. Good decision to set it with strax and co, because a)its funny b) it provides younger viwers with the familiar to ease transition and c) they got to bust out all the beebs vast collection of period gear again.

Good chuckle over the eyebrows secceding. HE'S MAKING REFERENCE TO SCOTS INDY! HE'S POKING THE FOURTH  WALL! THAT ONES FOR YOU GROWN UPS!


The story in itself was not great, an enjoyable romp as it were. Repair droids from the 51st century taking the long way home bladdy blah.

Leaving it 'did he fall or was he pushed' keeps the ambiguity of the Doctors relationship to terrible neccesity (the robot jumped imo)

I was really hoping at the start that the T rex was going to take a bite from Big Ben in some strange homage to the classic Chewits adverts


----------



## Quartz (Aug 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I was really hoping at the start that the T rex was going to take a bite from Big Ben in some strange homage to the classic Chewits adverts



Yes!

The spitting out was a reference to a film, wasn't it?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 23, 2014)

Moffat said he has no interest in bringing back the Master. 

He said that he didn't think Delgado could be bettered. Tend to agree, though The Deadly Assassin is one of my favourite stories.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

I'm not seeing the darkness in the deed when it comes to pushing a murdering organ harvesting robot that's happy to torture humans out of a floating testicle. That's not moral ambiguity in my book.


----------



## spirals (Aug 23, 2014)

I really enjoyed it. Boy child asked his dad to sit next to him and that's the mark of a creepy/good episode in this house


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 23, 2014)

'You must stop worrying about him my boy, by now he’s probably had his throat cut by the violent poor'


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 23, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Steven Moffat asked everyone at the previews to not mention Matt Smith's appearance.



Probably because he knew it was a load of mawkish shite.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

I'm  hoping for _An Audience With Strax_, wherein the Sontaran will throw flesh eating death maggots into an audience of celebrities, sing the Sontaran Clone Anthem, and then spearhead an invasion of Chelsea and Notting Hill.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Probably because he knew it was a load of mawkish shite.


and it was.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I'm not seeing the darkness in the deed when it comes to pushing a murdering organ harvesting robot that's happy to torture humans out of a floating testicle. That's not moral ambiguity in my book.




It's the Doctor, he agonizes endlessly over the fate of one sentient being, seeks to redeem it.

except when he consigns whole species to genocide like the wyrnn.

He even feels sorry for the daleks sometimes


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> It's the Doctor, he agonizes endlessly over the fate of one sentient being, seeks to redeem it.
> 
> except when he consigns whole species to genocide like the wyrnn.
> 
> He even feels sorry for the daleks sometimes


I felt more sad turning off the TV than the death of a killer robot. He wasn't Johnny Five!

I had hoped they might drop the 'lonely god' stuff. It wore very thin with Tennant.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 23, 2014)

I think its obvious that brolly lady in heaven is this seasons Big Bad (wolf). Or an aspect of it.


From the trail it seems next week will be in the budget straining future. Funny how there's never enough of them. It's not going to be the Rani, although if it was that would be quality. But I think like the Meddling Monk and Borusa, these enemies are to be left behind in old who.

He's supposed to be going on the hunt for gallifrey


----------



## Greebo (Aug 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I think its obvious that brolly lady in heaven is this seasons Big Bad (wolf). Or an aspect of it <snip>


Aspect, schmaspect, she's the heart of the Tardis.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 23, 2014)

Disliked the new music, the new intro, and the new Tardis decor.  The rest of it, not bad.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 23, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Aspect, schmaspect, she's the heart of the Tardis.


That's certainly what I thought, and who the Doctor was referring to when asking "who wrote the advert?", etc.


----------



## Pingu (Aug 23, 2014)

i liked it and my nephew loved it

promises of some darker episodes that will be scary enough but not "make the kid shit himself".

i think i am going to like this new doctor


----------



## PursuedByBears (Aug 24, 2014)

Was Capaldi playing as Tom Baker crossed with Matt Smith?  Not that that's a bad thing.

A very good first episode.  Liked the call-back to Capaldi's previous appearance in Doctor Who - "why did I choose this face?"  Interesting.

Is Michelle Gomez the Rani then?  She's a brilliant actor, I like her a lot.  Jenna Coleman had a lot to do in this one, very promising.

9/10.


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 24, 2014)

dislike the new theme tune, uncertain about the new opening credits, more than happy with the new doctor,and i'm really looking forward to the rest of the new series.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 24, 2014)

twas very good. 

Strax was superb. 

And capaldi being all confused and scared, hunting in the bins was genuinely moving. He looks like he will be a very good doctor.

And it was quite scary in places. 


Cud have done without the matt smith schmaltz and they still have the shit and annoyingly loud background music but overall Its very much a  yes from me.


----------



## MikeMcc (Aug 24, 2014)

At the start I was a bit put off with the whole 'confused Doctor' routine.  It hasn't happened before, the Doctor has always been very controlled and accepting after a regeneration.  The Rex was way too big and I'm not a fan of Dino-woman.  how does she survive from the previous epoch, why does she stay in Victorian England and why is there no other record of her in the modern England?  If she survived 100 million years why does she disappear in the last 150?  The whole robots wanting to be human was a bit meh too, who created them, when and why?  A new girlfriend too?  Was Alex Kingston pricing herself out of a job?  So now we have a daughter that hasn't reappeared, a wife that's gone AWOL, and a dodgy girlfriend.

Once Capaldi got himself out of the dither and set his style I liked it and I'm hoping for better episodes.  He has a lot of presence and is a great character actor.  I agree that Moffat is now the weak link.  They really need more writers to make a more varied set of story lines and need to invent more alien characters as strong as River Song, Face of Boe, Jack Harkness, etc.  Next weeks bad guys are Daleks (again...) and later in the Series is Cybermen (again...)


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

MikeMcc said:


> At the start I was a bit put off with the whole 'confused Doctor' routine.  It hasn't happened before, the Doctor has always been very controlled and accepting after a regeneration.



Have we been watching the same show?  Peter Davidson's and Colin Baker's Doctors were both complete messes after regeneration.
In fact I felt this one was very much shades of Colin Baker.

I do think Capaldi will be excellent however.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> ...and they still have the shit and annoyingly loud background music.....



Why do they keep doing it?  There are complaints every season about the music being overly loud in places, and as usual I couldn't follow all the dialogue.
The music is sometimes good, but it wouldn't kill them to just take it down a notch!


----------



## MikeMcc (Aug 24, 2014)

I must admit that I can't remember much detail from then, more working from Tennant and Ecclestone.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

MikeMcc said:


> I must admit that I can't remember much detail from then, more working from Tennant and Ecclestone.



Ah well there you go.  You are probably not well placed to comment about post-regeneration behaviour if you don't remember many of them


----------



## MikeMcc (Aug 24, 2014)

But Bakers introduction was the first to bring in the idea of a 'regeneration' and Davidsons was just a bit of meh writing in the same way this one was.  The others have tended to go smoothly, even commenting on the changes, remembering past characteristics and clothing.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

MikeMcc said:


> But Bakers introduction was the first to bring in the idea of a 'regeneration' and Davidsons was just a bit of meh writing in the same way this one was.  The others have tended to go smoothly, even commenting on the changes, remembering past characteristics and clothing.



Sorry, wut???


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 24, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> In analysis I think capaldi has the intensity down pat, remains to be seen how well he can do the scatterbrained loon bit- this was OK in that regard but he was able to ham it up because post-regeneration fugue. Good decision to set it with strax and co, because a)its funny b) it provides younger viwers with the familiar to ease transition and c) they got to bust out all the beebs vast collection of period gear again.
> 
> Good chuckle over the eyebrows secceding. HE'S MAKING REFERENCE TO SCOTS INDY! HE'S POKING THE FOURTH  WALL! THAT ONES FOR YOU GROWN UPS!
> 
> ...




I thought he chewed barrow in Furness bus depot.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

One thing I thought, was that it was lovely that it was confirmed that Vastra and Jenny were a couple, I think it would have been better to play it serious though and not keep bringing it up as a point of humour.
Or perhaps I wish we lived in a society where it was just accepted that an ancient lizard and a human could be a married couple and that would just be accepted without need for it being a subject for further farce and jokes.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 24, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I thought he chewed barrow in Furness bus depot.


There were 4 adverts in the 80's , indeed the bus station was one , the Taj Mahal another, the leaning tower of Pisa and the empire state building were in ads 1&2.

It did come to London in the 3rd and 4th adverts , mashed up a bridge and wore the dome of st pauls as a hat.But no eating of big ben

According to a little search on google and you tube.


----------



## Knotted (Aug 24, 2014)

Ah, they've finally fixed the theme tune. I end my boycott.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Knotted said:


> Ah, they've finally fixed the theme tune. I end my boycott.



I was not that taken by the opening sequence, but the theme tune and graphics at the end was all very retro and got a big thumbs up from me.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 24, 2014)

ruffneck23 said:


> There were 4 adverts in the 80's , indeed the bus station was one , the Taj Mahal another, the leaning tower of Pisa and the empire state building were in ads 1&2.
> 
> It did come to London in the 3rd and 4th adverts , mashed up a bridge and wore the dome of st pauls as a hat.But no eating of big ben
> 
> According to a little search on google and you tube.


I probably only remember barrow because I lived in Dalton in Furness . there wasn't a bus depot, I think it was a joke because they were funneling public funds pretending to get one built or something.

Just watched dimensions in time. Shite of course, but interesting to see everyone, needed more romana and less Langford.


----------



## Knotted (Aug 24, 2014)

Epona said:


> I was not that taken by the opening sequence, but the theme tune and graphics at the end was all very retro and got a big thumbs up from me.



I missed the opening sequence, but the end was just what they should have been doing. Eerie and stylish.

I'm also liking Peter Capaldi's Doctor. I think previously there have been 4 different variations of Doctors - Hartwellish severe and morally alien, Troughtonish imps, Pertweeish angry action men and Davidsonish vulnerable characters. This is an interesting combination of types 1) and 4) and Capaldi is a good enough actor to pull it off if the script is strong enough.

Plot was a bit crap though. Rushed. These things need to develop over a few episodes.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 24, 2014)

Epona said:


> One thing I thought, was that it was lovely that it was confirmed that Vastra and Jenny were a couple, I think it would have been better to play it serious though and not keep bringing it up as a point of humour.
> Or perhaps I wish we lived in a society where it was just accepted that an ancient lizard and a human could be a married couple and that would just be accepted without need for it being a subject for further farce and jokes.



I was glad they bought up the slightly dodgy dynamic of Jenny being both lover and servant. Apart from them both being women, and one of them being a lizard, their relationship is really very nineteenth century. The whole situation provides a good excuse to satirise the idea of a 'traditional' marriage IMO.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Knotted said:


> I missed the opening sequence, but the end was just what they should have been doing. Eerie and stylish.
> 
> I'm also liking Peter Capaldi's Doctor. I think previously there have been 4 different variations of Doctors - Hartwellish severe and morally alien, Troughtonish imps, Pertweeish angry action men and Davidsonish vulnerable characters. This is an interesting combination of types 1) and 4) and Capaldi is a good enough actor to pull it off if the script is strong enough.
> 
> Plot was a bit crap though. Rushed. These things need to develop over a few episodes.



Aye, I wasn't that impressed with the plot, and some bits were silly - it's still Doctor Who though and I prefer it to exist than not, if that makes any sense.

It's interesting what you say about Hartnell being morally alien, and I think you're right - watching it these days and comparing with the modern series, he had morals, but they weren't the same as we see in the role these days, he was often quite horrible and deceitful to his companions for example.


----------



## Knotted (Aug 24, 2014)

Epona said:


> It's interesting what you say about Hartnell being morally alien, and I think you're right - watching it these days and comparing with the modern series, he had morals, but they weren't the same as we see in the role these days, he was often quite horrible and deceitful to his companions for example.



They brought that back with Collin Baker and to an extent with Sylvester McCoy and it would be good to see it done well. But it would require some courage from the writers.

Notice he abandoned Clara. That's a very Hartwell/C Baker thing to have done.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Knotted said:


> They brought that back with Collin Baker and to an extent with Sylvester McCoy and it would be good to see it done well. But it would require some courage from the writers.
> 
> Notice he abandoned Clara. That's a very Hartwell/C Baker thing to have done.



He abandoned her for a short period of time then came back for her, and we knew he would come back.

Compare that to the very start of Doctor Who, where Hartnell's Doctor abducted 2 people and watching it, you're not entirely sure whether he's not going to bump them off or leave them in some situation where they will die.
Modern Doctor, however dire the situation, we sort of have a belief that he is a good guy who will turn up and do the rescue if required.  I'm not sure anyone tuning in 50 years ago could have been quite so certain, because there didn't seem to be any such assurance that he was a good guy, at least not at first - he was a cranky old bloke with seemingly little empathy or sympathy, and a very controlling and manipulative streak, and anything could have happened.


----------



## Knotted (Aug 24, 2014)

Fair point. But what was that business with the tramp?


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Knotted said:


> Fair point. But what was that business with the tramp?



If you are referring to Troughton, he was an excellent Doctor.  He was a more friendly Doctor than Hartnell.  There were also some really epic and (for the time) large-budget and large-scale stories in his era.  Such a shame that many of them have been lost.


----------



## Knotted (Aug 24, 2014)

Epona said:


> If you are referring to Troughton, he was an excellent Doctor.  He was a more friendly Doctor than Hartnell.  There were also some really epic and (for the time) large-budget and large-scale stories in his era.  Such a shame that many of them have been lost.



Sorry, I meant in last night's episode. With the attempt at extorting the tramp of his coat and generally being scary. That was quite dark.

I wouldn't dream of calling Patrick Troughton a tramp! I think he was one of the best.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Knotted said:


> Sorry, I meant in last night's episode. With the attempt at extorting the tramp of his coat and generally being scary. That was quite dark.
> 
> I wouldn't dream of calling Patrick Troughton a tramp! I think he was one of the best.



Oh sorry, my brain was in "Classic Who" space when responding, and Troughton is often referred to as the "Tramp" Doctor (EDIT: I think because the character was a little bit of a hippy, dressed oddly, and was seen as an eccentric intergalactic wanderer, not for negative connotations).

I get you now, I don't know but I have a feeling the tramp from the last episode may well turn up again and be important somehow, just a feeling I have - if he wasn't going to be important somehow it seemed to dwell on that segment a long time iykwim.


----------



## 8den (Aug 24, 2014)

I'll say this for Moffat. He's very environmentally friendly, he recycles all of his ideas, many times.

And I fucking hate the new theme.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 24, 2014)

It gets a thumbs up at our house. I'm just pleased that its an older looking  Who.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Chilli.s said:


> It gets a thumbs up at our house. I'm just pleased that its an older looking  Who.



Honestly my first thought when Capaldi's role was announced was "thank fuck they got someone older than me".  There are only so many times you can laugh off the obvious sign of aging that the Doctor seems to be getting younger.


----------



## mentalchik (Aug 24, 2014)

Hated the new theme tune and starting bit...........


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

mentalchik said:


> Hated the new theme tune and starting bit...........



Same here, end credits were really cool and retro though (in an appropriately Doctor Who way) and I loved them.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 24, 2014)

ok , so im with you with the credits and theme being a bit meh, the story was pretty weak, but at least got a little chilling from the restaurant onwards. Clara had something to do which was nice. Capaldi will be a decent Doctor from first impressions but as others have said, only if he gets the scripts, which worries me.

Still i'll keep on watching and hopefully Moffat wont fuck it up again. ( HOPEFULLY  )


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 24, 2014)

http://newsthump.com/2013/08/05/new-doctor-who-to-travel-back-in-time-and-invent-the-word-fuck/


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 24, 2014)

Knotted said:


> They brought that back with Collin Baker and to an extent with Sylvester McCoy and it would be good to see it done well. But it would require some courage from the writers.
> 
> Notice he abandoned Clara. That's a very Hartwell/C Baker thing to have done.


TBF, if i'd been Dr Six, I'd have abandoned my companions. You could hear Mel scream from here to Skaro.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 24, 2014)

8den said:


> I'll say this for Moffat. He's very environmentally friendly, he recycles all of his ideas, many times.
> 
> And I fucking hate the new theme.


Don't (blink) breathe.


----------



## 8den (Aug 24, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> TBF, if i'd been Dr Six, I'd have abandoned my companions. You could hear Mel scream from here to Skaro.



Shudder.....

Mel was like some weird mutant adult Shirley Temple. She should have been a Villain not a companion.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> TBF, if i'd been Dr Six, I'd have abandoned my companions. You could hear Mel scream from here to Skaro.



I can't think of anyone who would proclaim an episode or story from that era as their favourite tbh.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 24, 2014)

Trial of a Time lord was a decent arc. Colink Baker just got a shitty deal. Him and McCoy are stage actor types and so their brand of thespianism doesn't sit right with TV audiences. Plus that crazy quilt outfit...


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 24, 2014)

Knotted said:


> Fair point. But what was that business with the tramp?


That was Elizabeth Sladen's widower, Brian Miller, perhaps best-known as Mr. Archibald Buttle in Brazil.


----------



## 8den (Aug 24, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> That was Elizabeth Sladen's widower, Brian Miller, perhaps best-known as Mr. Archibald Buttle in Brazil.



Tuttle?


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Trial of a Time lord was a decent arc. Colink Baker just got a shitty deal. Him and McCoy are stage actor types and so their brand of thespianism doesn't sit right with TV audiences. Plus that crazy quilt outfit...



See that was a low point for me.  And yes the outfit was shitty.
Sorry thing is that with better stories and scripts, I think Colin Baker could have been excellent.
I actually liked McCoy, even despite the sets being very obviously wobbly and low budget by that point, he was a fine Doctor.  Hated Ace though, I grew up in Surrey and she was like so many posh people I knew playing at being 'radical' with an ultra posh accent that it made my head hurt.


----------



## Epona (Aug 24, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> That was Elizabeth Sladen's widower, Brian Miller, perhaps best-known as Mr. Archibald Buttle in Brazil.



I knew him from Brazil of course (my favourite film) and also he's been in a few episodes of Doctor Who over the years, but I never realised he was married to Elizabeth Sladen - thanks for pointing that out.


----------



## gnoriac (Aug 24, 2014)

Hoping Capaldi will turn out to be an excellent Doctor, thought he did well despite the lame humour saturating last night's episode. Plus points for the clockwork cyborgs and the new Tardis. 

New re-working of the theme tune is shittier than ever, bring back the unearthly Delia Derbyshire orginal, a true masterpiece of electronic music!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 24, 2014)

Epona said:


> See that was a low point for me.  And yes the outfit was shitty.
> Sorry thing is that with better stories and scripts, I think Colin Baker could have been excellent.
> I actually liked McCoy, even despite the sets being very obviously wobbly and low budget by that point, he was a fine Doctor.  Hated Ace though, I grew up in Surrey and she was like so many posh people I knew playing at being 'radical' with an ultra posh accent that it made my head hurt.


even sorrier thing is that Colin would agree.

I agre about McCoy, i would like (and will thanks to Torrent, no thanks to the BBC refusing to show this stuff and forcing ppl to buy their shitty expensive dvds), to watch the McCoy stuff again and properly.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 24, 2014)

So - is 'missy' the master? Or his wife?


----------



## Greebo (Aug 24, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> So - is 'missy' the master? Or his wife?


Neither.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 24, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Trial of a Time lord was a decent arc. Colink Baker just got a shitty deal. Him and McCoy are stage actor types and so their brand of thespianism doesn't sit right with TV audiences. Plus that crazy quilt outfit...



Trial of a Timelord was a mess. Nobody could look good presented with that shit. Was the doctor pretending to be a twat, was he actually being a twat, or was it all a manipulation of the matrix. Not even the writers knew when baker asked for direction. Plus it introduced Mel. 

When Baker came the writing got mega shit, they dressed him as a clown and made him unlikeable. By the time McCoy came along I was losing interest fast, but in retrospect he actually had some pretty decent episodes. 

As for the titles of the new series, as long as they are not like the McCoy era titles I am happy. Bit over the top with the cogs. 
I wish they would not keep banging on about Capaldi being 'old', he's not that old.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 24, 2014)

And he doesn't look nearly as old as Matt Smith did at the end of Time of the Doctor after 1,000 years at Trenzalore. But they seem to have missed that.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 24, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> And he doesn't look early as old as Matt Smith did at the end of Time of the Doctor after 1,000 years at Trensilor. But they seem to have missed that.


I think his point was that he started being the doctor as an old man (or something), also he phoned up as a young man.
Anyway, it's very annoying.


----------



## RedDragon (Aug 24, 2014)

I think it's time for a production crew refresh - I'm liking the new Dr.


----------



## Sprocket. (Aug 24, 2014)

Capaldi is younger than me and I'm only 3,007!


----------



## Sprocket. (Aug 24, 2014)

Me and the Mrs enjoyed it but we are looking forward to episodes written by Mark Gatiss.
Please stop referring to 'cogs' they are gears or sprockets. Ta.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 24, 2014)

what was all the business of him finding it all familiar, but not being able to recall why, when he was trying to get that robot pissed?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 24, 2014)

Are they trying to make a statement about dementia or something by having the Dr as an old man who doesn't remember himself?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 24, 2014)

I've watched it twice now.  I really liked it.  Capaldi is brilliant.  Clara has vastly improved. The dialogue was crisp and witty. The story was great. Strax was fantastic, as usual.  "And then we will melt him with acid".

"And then we will _not_ melt him with acid".

Not keen on the new theme tune.  Don't like the bells, nor the altered timbre of the main melody, especially the vibrato towards the end.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 24, 2014)

They should just that Orbital version of the theme tune.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 24, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> what was all the business of him finding it all familiar, but not being able to recall why, when he was trying to get that robot pissed?


I googled it.
The ship and the robots are the same as the ones in the Girl In The Fireplace.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 24, 2014)

The original theme music cant be bettered. Tis a fact written in stone.

Lots of people are complaining they couldn't hear some of the dialouge - I had to rewind a few times myself - anyone else get this? 

Oh - what was strax doing with the medical examination of Clara? Cos the robots did a very similar scan on the doctor and clara in the resturant. Was it just a bit of daft ("I see lots of young men performing gymanastics ..") or is strax up to something unpleasant?


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 24, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> Oh - what was strax doing with the medical examination of Clara? Cos the robots did a very similar scan on the doctor and clara in the resturant. Was it just a bit of daft ("I see lots of young men performing gymanastics ..") or is strax up to something unpleasant?


He's a nurse. isn't he?


----------



## binka (Aug 24, 2014)

not very impressed with the doctr begging clara to accept him for who he is. all he needed to say was 'im the doctor and if you dont like it you can fuck off'


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Aug 24, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> He's a nurse. isn't he?



Plus he said he wanted to make sure anyone he was fighting with was in good physical condition. He wanted to know what he was working with.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 24, 2014)

I'm siding with the Thals, what about the rest of you?


----------



## 8den (Aug 24, 2014)

http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/lists/50-best-dr-who-moments-20140822

Doesn't have the badass Rory moment but otherwise a decent list. (though it has a montage of Paul Mc Ganns' abortion of a movie)


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2014)

I liked it. Some great comedy moments.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 24, 2014)

Fair enough, they've got to set up the new doc and go through the obligatory 'wacky' I don't know who I am stuff.  Same time the robots harvesting human organs was just shit and the lizard/maid/comedy Silurian stuff is getting that way.  Capaldi should be good though when he starts doing it properly and the woman at the end would be a good baddy.


----------



## madamv (Aug 24, 2014)

I love the new opening sequence, love the new doc, love whatserface off of green wing at the end.  

Bit thin on the script ground for me, but watching with my 11yr old reminds me it's primarily for kids. 

I shall continue watching


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 24, 2014)

8den said:


> http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/lists/50-best-dr-who-moments-20140822
> 
> Doesn't have the badass Rory moment but otherwise a decent list. (though it has a montage of Paul Mc Ganns' abortion of a movie)



pah - rubbish list. Doesn't have the auton shopwindow dummies coming to life in Spearhead from space.


----------



## T & P (Aug 24, 2014)

I haven't seen it yet and don't want to read the thread so apologies if it's been asked already, but does anyone know why it's not on the red button yet? It is on the online iplayer- but we can't get it to start.


----------



## dessiato (Aug 24, 2014)

Set up the sound and the projector. It was worth the trouble. I enjoyed it. I liked the comment that he had never had this trouble with Amy. I'll definitely be watching this. (might go for a 50" screen. It doesn't do so well at 80" & 100" not enough definition on my download.)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 24, 2014)

T & P said:


> I haven't seen it yet and don't want to read the thread so apologies if it's been asked already, but does anyone know why it's not on the red button yet? It is on the online iplayer- but we can't get it to start.



The whole BBC site has been having problems this evening, and at the time you posted it was off-line altogether for me.


----------



## Cid (Aug 25, 2014)

Capaldi is excellent, Gomez could be, the writing, production etc? Remains to be seen.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 25, 2014)

Just watched it, great stuff hit every Who note perfectly, Michelle Gomez will be a great series foil and I love the lizard and her partner.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 25, 2014)

binka said:


> not very impressed with the doctr begging clara to accept him for who he is. all he needed to say was 'im the doctor and if you dont like it you can fuck off'



he is always a did unsteady after a regeneration. At one point  he  even though he was half human.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 25, 2014)

Drax is the best, highlight was when he fell down unceremoniously after Madame Vastra and Jenny glided down.

Dip him in acid!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 25, 2014)

Strax don't mix your Scifi universes


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 25, 2014)

I've changed my mind about the theme tune, its grown on me


----------



## binka (Aug 25, 2014)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> he is always a did unsteady after a regeneration. At one point  he  even though he was half human.


how does that explain the matt smith bollocks then? obviously it was aimed at the audience to try and convince them to give an older doctor a chance but fuck the audience!


----------



## emanymton (Aug 25, 2014)

Wonder is someone got the spelling wrong?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 25, 2014)

binka said:


> how does that explain the matt smith bollocks then? obviously it was aimed at the audience to try and convince them to give an older doctor a chance but fuck the audience!


Fuck the audience and there will be no more dr who again , is that what you want ?


----------



## dessiato (Aug 25, 2014)

binka said:


> how does that explain the matt smith bollocks then? obviously it was aimed at the audience to try and convince them to give an older doctor a chance but *fuck the audience*!


Since there was 7,3 million of them, that's going to take some time! At ten minutes each, that would be, approx. 51000 days non-stop.


----------



## magneze (Aug 25, 2014)

I thought it was excellent generally and pretty coherent. I wonder if that's more from the director than the script. I found Strax fucking annoying though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 25, 2014)

Just watched it. After the first 10 minutes I was about to give up as it was dire, but it settled down and had enough to keep me interested. Capaldi was good.

Then they resurrected Smith at the end and ruined it.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Aug 26, 2014)

Not impressed in the slightest. I had to force myself to watch it to the end, and it was shit. The story was shit and the Doctor was shit. I reckon that's the end of Dr Who, for me.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just watched it. After the first 10 minutes I was about to give up as it was dire, but it settled down and had enough to keep me interested. Capaldi was good.
> 
> Then they resurrected Smith at the end and ruined it.


Bringing in Smith was the worst thing they could have done for sure. It didn't ruin the episode for me,but if i was Capaldi i'd be concerned about the conspicuous vote of no confidence it represented.


----------



## magneze (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Bringing in Smith was the worst thing they could have done for sure. It didn't ruin the episode for me,but if i was Capaldi i'd be concerned about the conspicuous vote of no confidence it represented.


Can you explain that? I don't get the problem.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

magneze said:


> Can you explain that? I don't get the problem.



I think the suggestion is that Capaldi couldn't carry the episode by himself. 

I just disliked the fact Smith was a young man, Timey Wimey Wibbely Wobbly is all very good but that was just lazy bollocks.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 26, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Not impressed in the slightest. I had to force myself to watch it to the end, and it was shit. The story was shit and the Doctor was shit. I reckon that's the end of Dr Who, for me.


I'd agree with you about the story, it was piss weak. Capaldi has promise though.  Against expectations, I enjoyed Matt Smith as the doctor, obviously young but playing the character as 'old'. Presumably, Capaldi will bring some of his darker TV presence. He's also rather a good actor.

Very much agree with Awesome's point though.


----------



## magneze (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> I think the suggestion is that Capaldi couldn't carry the episode by himself.
> 
> I just disliked the fact Smith was a young man, Timey Wimey Wibbely Wobbly is all very good but that was just lazy bollocks.


There's no suggestion of that. Having a link between the old and new doctor whilst regeneration is sorting itself out is fine. Talk about picking at straws.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> I think the suggestion is that Capaldi couldn't carry the episode by himself.
> 
> I just disliked the fact Smith was a young man, Timey Wimey Wibbely Wobbly is all very good but that was just lazy bollocks.



From The Time of The Doctor wiki


> Clara, unable to watch, returns to the crack and through it, begs the Time Lords to save the Doctor, urging it's owed to him for all he has done in his lives. The Doctor prepares to die outside, when the crack appears in the night sky. Regeneration energy flows from the crack and into the Doctor, granting him a new regeneration cycle and saving him from death.
> 
> The Doctor uses the excess energy of his regeneration to destroy the Daleks. *In the aftermath, Clara finds the Doctor, young again, in the TARDIS. He explains this rejuvenation is a 'reset' for the new regeneration cycle to begin and the changing of his form is taking a while to start up.* He delivers a eulogy to his current form, and hallucinates a final farewell to Amy Pond, the first person he met after his last regeneration. He then removes his bow tie, and drops it on the floor before abruptly regenerating into the Twelfth Doctor. After exclaiming he has 'new kidneys' and complaining about their colour, the Doctor declares that the TARDIS is crashing and asks Clara if she knows how to fly it.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

magneze said:


> There's no suggestion of that. Having a link between the old and new doctor whilst regeneration is sorting itself out is fine. Talk about picking at straws.



Well thats what I took him to mean, and in fairness you asked him to clarify so you're really not in a place to tell him what he is/isn't saying. Lets wait for Awesome to get back to you, and we can settle this.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

magneze said:


> Can you explain that? I don't get the problem.


Smith, for reasons beyond me, was very popular. Capaldi is new and a lot older, Moffat obviously felt Smith's presence was neccesary to reaasure the fans. In effect saying he has no confidence that Capaldi could carry off his premier episode - or no confidence in his own writing.

I really don't want an entire season of 'who am I clara?'.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 26, 2014)

magneze said:


> There's no suggestion of that. Having a link between the old and new doctor whilst regeneration is sorting itself out is fine. Talk about picking at straws.


Presumably the writer thought it was about whatserface, the companion, having a problem with an older doctor after she fancied the previous one (and he her). It was supposed to be a way of resolving that.  Just seemed clumsy, sentimental and made the new doc seem a bit needy.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> From The Time of The Doctor wiki



Okay smarty pants, when during all that did he have time to make the phone call.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> I think the suggestion is that Capaldi couldn't carry the episode by himself.
> 
> I just disliked the fact Smith was a young man, Timey Wimey Wibbely Wobbly is all very good but that was just lazy bollocks.


I thougth Smith was the worst doctor ever. 

Partnered with the worst scripts ever.

All the goofy affectations won't work with Capaldi either. I can't see someone like that randomly picking up a fex and wearing it. So hopefully things will get a more 'serious' - ie less silly/tomfoolery (more tombakery please!)

According to the Mirror 9 days ago, Clara is leaving at xmas. Boo fucking hoo. They need to bring in Terry Coverly as his new companion.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> In effect saying he has no confidence that Capaldi could carry off his premier episode - or no confidence in his own writing.



Yeah. Thats what I said. 



> I really don't want an entire season of 'who am I clara?'.



God no.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Presumably the writer thought it was about whatserface, the companion, having a problem with an older doctor after she fancied the previous one (and he her). It was supposed to be a way of resolving that.  Just seemed clumsy, sentimental and made the new doc seem a bit needy.


He didn't fancy her. I think we were meant to think she fancied him, but that was so poorly handled i was never quite sure.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> Okay smarty pants, when during all that did he have time to make the phone call.


I'll have to watch it again but I think the bit with Clara putting the phone on the hook was also in The Time of the Doctor So I'd guess just before that. As they skipped hundreds of years throughout the episode they probably didn't think a "three minutes later" caption was necessary.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Aug 26, 2014)

Very disappointed with the new doctor.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)

Jesus, some of you are hard to please.  

It was a return to form, and Capaldi was excellent.  Moffat managed to reign in most of his mawkish tendencies most of the time, and Clara was finally an asset to the programme.

As for "recycling" stories.  Ahem: Daleks.  The Doctor often recognises his foes; he's been around.  

If you're expecting something it isn't: don't.  Go elsewhere.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 26, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> I'll have to watch it again but I think the bit with Clara putting the phone on the hook was also in The Time of the Doctor So I'd guess just before that.


I just checked it. as an old man he blasts loads of daleks out of the sky with his magic powers. everyone hides inside a house. clara comes out after the dust settles, and hangs the phone up, then goes into the tardis to find a young doctor.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Jesus, some of you are hard to please.
> 
> It was a return to form, and Capaldi was excellent.  Moffat managed to reign in most of his mawkish tendencies most of the time, and Clara was finally an asset to the programme.
> 
> As for "recycling" stories.  Ahem: Daleks.  The Doctor often recognises his foes; he's been around.



Clockwork robots harvesting human organs to repair their spaceship.


----------



## magneze (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Smith, for reasons beyond me, was very popular. Capaldi is new and a lot older, Moffat obviously felt Smith's presence was neccesary to reaasure the fans. In effect saying he has no confidence that Capaldi could carry off his premier episode - or no confidence in his own writing.


What's your evidence for this lack of confidence in Capaldi? I don't see it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> Clockwork robots harvesting human organs to repair their spaceship.


Yes.

My point was that there are many recycled stories.  In fact, the show is loved for them.  Daleks, Cybermen, The Master, Zygons, Autons, Silurians, Sontarans, and so on.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes.
> 
> My point was that there are many recycled stories.  In fact, the show is loved for them.  Daleks, Cybermen, The Master, Zygons, Autons, Silurians, Sontarans, and so on.



The a difference between reoccurring villains, and having the same baddies turn up to do the exact same thing they were doing last time.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> The a difference between reoccurring villains, and having the same baddies turn up to do the exact same thing they were doing last time.


They all do. The Daleks exterminate.  The Cybermen delete. The robot spaceship crew harvest body parts.

I don't have a problem with that; it was introduced differently.  A good adventure was made from it.  (My problem is when baddies are squandered the way the Weeping Angels were).


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

magneze said:


> What's your evidence for this lack of confidence in Capaldi? I don't see it.


well...the appearance of Dr Smith!


----------



## magneze (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> well...the appearance of Dr Smith!


The appearance of Dr Smith in the episode is evidence for a lack of confidence in Dr Capaldi because Dr Smith appears in the episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 26, 2014)

All I am hearing is the whining of fair weather fans, weaned on a diet of easily digestable new who. You weren't there man, during the interregenum when there was no Who. I had to watch old VHS tapes of Colin Bakers era ffs. I had to subscribe to Doctor Who magazine! 'Oh I don't like it, he's changed. The story wasn't very good. Oh the doctor looked needy' his essential needy lonliness, the desire for companions to see the reflection of what he wants to be in their faces- thats always an essential plank of any era doctor. Ditto the silly affectations

You people make me sick


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)




----------



## fucthest8 (Aug 26, 2014)

Just to echo others, fuck me you people do like a whinge eh?

It's a family show. They have to cater for a _very_ broad range of ages and whatnot. This was the first episode for a new Doctor, they needed to link back to the last series and tie up a few things. Which they did through 2 minutes of the old Doctor. So fucking what?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 26, 2014)

Its was the first episode of a new series with a new doctor. The focus is going to be on the new doctor and everyone else readjusting to him. That was was done very well. The monster bit of the plot was always going to be secondary - yes it was a bit daft, but still managed some proper scariness. Overall it was a very entertaining episode that did its job. 

My main issues with new who has been too much exploration on the doctors relationships with his compansions - usually via the medium of mawkish sentimentality. But for me - and I suspect many others - the best who is when they have rattlingly good scary,  monster yarns where the doctor and gang win the day in  through genunine wit, guile and courage (not whooshing them into space with some convenient super  TARDIS space magic shooting out of someones arse). 

I hope we have more of this in the new series - and Capaldi is definitely a step in the right direction.


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Smith, for reasons beyond me, was very popular. Capaldi is new and a lot older, Moffat obviously felt Smith's presence was neccesary to reaasure the fans. In effect saying he has no confidence that Capaldi could carry off his premier episode - or no confidence in his own writing.
> 
> I really don't want an entire season of 'who am I clara?'.


it's funny how people can watch the same programme and end up seeing completely different things. for me the scene showed moffat's absolute confidence in capaldi and his ability to own the part,  much as I loved smiths doctor his cameo didn't in any way undermine my acceptance of capaldi , who for me focused into The Doctor from the point he said don't look in the mirror it's furious,  'though I do understand your issues with Moffat as I have the same frothy mouthed reaction to the work of Dan Brown  and at least he not writing my favourite show. While it may be no comfort now Moffat will leave eventually,( it happened for me when Tennant left ) but until then you are just going to suck it up as the show is not being made just for you.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> All I am hearing is the whining of fair weather fans, weaned on a diet of easily digestable new who. You weren't there man, during the interregenum when there was no Who. I had to watch old VHS tapes of Colin Bakers era ffs. I had to subscribe to Doctor Who magazine! 'Oh I don't like it, he's changed. The story wasn't very good. Oh the doctor looked needy' his essential needy lonliness, the desire for companions to see the reflection of what he wants to be in their faces- thats always an essential plank of any era doctor. Ditto the silly affectations
> 
> You people make me sick



Man has a point. I tried watching City of Death a while ago, and it's not aged well. 

As a kid growing up my Doctors were McCoy and Baker (technically) but thanks to Dyke's fucking around the show it was impossible to follow (he constantly re scheduled it). As a young lad it was repeats of the Pewtree/Baker era on the new Satellite channels that got me hooked.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> All I am hearing is the whining of fair weather fans, weaned on a diet of easily digestable new who. You weren't there man, during the interregenum when there was no Who. I had to watch old VHS tapes of Colin Bakers era ffs. I had to subscribe to Doctor Who magazine! 'Oh I don't like it, he's changed. The story wasn't very good. Oh the doctor looked needy' his essential needy lonliness, the desire for companions to see the reflection of what he wants to be in their faces- thats always an essential plank of any era doctor. Ditto the silly affectations
> 
> You people make me sick


LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> Man has a point. I tried watching City of Death a while ago, and it's not aged well.
> 
> As a kid growing up my Doctors were McCoy and Baker (technically) but thanks to Dyke's fucking around the show it was impossible to follow (he constantly re scheduled it). As a young lad it was repeats of the Pewtree/Baker era on the new Satellite channels that got me hooked.


I just watched Genesis of the Daleks which is about 4 years before City, and it was glorious.

New Who doesn't compare to the glory days. Dr Who back then simply was, now it's constantly trying to be something or do something or say something. I don't mind having a regeneration crisis (though I did object to Tenannt being flat onhis back foralmost the entirety of the Christmas Invasion!), but i don't want ti lasting the entire fucking season. I want a new doctor with his own personality. I don't wnat the lonely god, I don't want the mysterious dinosaur telepath, i don't want jokes about fezes, I don't want River fucking Song being terribly mysterious, and I don't want confused unresolved metaplot. Bad Wolf = good, Pandorica = bollocks.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

fucthest8 said:


> Just to echo others, fuck me you people do like a whinge eh?
> 
> It's a family show. They have to cater for a _very_ broad range of ages and whatnot. This was the first episode for a new Doctor, they needed to link back to the last series and tie up a few things. Which they did through 2 minutes of the old Doctor. So fucking what?


Dr Who was always a family show, the difference then was that it didn't need to have a constant soundtrack running through like Tom and JHerry and turned up to 11, nor did it try and sell 5 year old kids toy screwdrivers. New Who has taken a nosedive during Moffat's time because he's fucking shit at telling stories. The best thing he did was Blink and the creation of the Paternoster gang. The whole fiasco on Trenzelore was an utter debacle.


----------



## fucthest8 (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Dr Who was always a family show, the difference then was that it didn't need to have a constant soundtrack running through like Tom and JHerry and turned up to 11, nor did it try and sell 5 year old kids toy screwdrivers. New Who has taken a nosedive during Moffat's time because he's fucking shit at telling stories. The best thing he did was Blink and the creation of the Paternoster gang. The whole fiasco on Trenzelore was an utter debacle.



Agreed, to every point. Not sure how that translates to new episode being shit though? They dialled back on the music (not enough, but better), closed the door on all that bollocks from last series and Capaldi was good.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

Harold Saxon = win

Impossible/Invisible Astronaut = fail.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

fucthest8 said:


> Agreed, to every point. Not sure how that translates to new episode being shit though? They dialled back on the music (not enough, but better), closed the door on all that bollocks from last series and Capaldi was good.


I don' think the new apisode was shit. Just the cameo from Matt Smith.


----------



## fucthest8 (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I don' think the new apisode was shit. Just the cameo from Matt Smith.



Sorry, I perhaps should have pointed out that wasn't aimed solely at you. However, I stick by my earlier point that the cameo served a particular purpose which seemed ok to me.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Harold Saxon = win
> .



What with shit CGI Dobby doctor, some Scissors Sister and magic happy thoughts saving the world?

Crap. Plus Martha Jones, Freema Agyeman played by who can't seem to even cry convincingly.





God I need to stop at this point I'm going to decide that the high point of doctor who was 2 1/2 minutes of Chris Eccles tenure.




Mind you I do have a very very very funny story about Euros Lynn, Russell T Davis and Billie Piper's bottom.



Spoiler



A friend edited "Rose" the 1st ep of the new season, and he pointed out that the shot of her leaping out of bed at the start wasn't at the most flattering camera angle/lens and it should be reshot. Euros and Russell poo poo'd it, and my friend pointed out that seeing as he was the only straight man in the room, they should trust him when he says women don't like to think that they have big bottoms. The shot stayed in, and soon after she saw the cut of the 1st episode Piper went on a crash diet that played merry hell on the wardrobe dept for the rest of season


----------



## fucthest8 (Aug 26, 2014)

Great story


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I just watched Genesis of the Daleks which is about 4 years before City, and it was glorious.


I have it on DVD.  It doesn't stand the test of time very well.  New Who at its best is much, much better.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> I have it on DVD.  It doesn't stand the test of time very well.  New Who at its best is much, much better.



I have to admit the rise in production values over the years is astonishing. The usual rule with American TV is if you have a successful 1st series they add 10% to your budget for your 2nd, and in Britain they cut 10% of your budget (hoping you'll manage the same level of success on that budget). 

Who's consistently looked better and better and I speak as someone who has had budgetary bunfights with the VFX companies behind Who.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> I have to admit the rise in production values over the years is astonishing. The usual rule with American TV is if you have a successful 1st series they add 10% to your budget for your 2nd, and in Britain they cut 10% of your budget (hoping you'll manage the same level of success on that budget).
> 
> Who's consistently looked better and better and I speak as someone who has had budgetary bunfights with the VFX companies behind Who.


To be fair, it was only meant to be watched once.  It was made on a shoestring (often using actual shoestrings). The aim was to create an impression, for it to be seen once, and if you missed it you missed it.

Not to be pored over and re-examined in detail.

Capaldi says as much in his RT interview.  I agree with him.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

Doh. I meant to say the rise in production values in New Who is astonishing. Looking back at say for example the control panel where the Doctor tortures the Dalek in "Dalek" it looks like something from Prisoner Cell Block H.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> Doh. I meant to say the rise in production values in New Who is astonishing. Looking back at say for example the control panel where the Doctor tortures the Dalek in "Dalek" it looks like something from Prisoner Cell Block H.


Oh, right.

My kids watched "Rose" on Sunday.  Plastic Rickey and the wheelie bin looked _ancient_.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, right.
> 
> My kids watched "Rose" on Sunday.  Plastic Rickey and the wheelie bin looked _ancient_.



Well Plastic Rickey and the Wheelie bin looked shit even by 2002 standards.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> Well Plastic Rickey and the Wheelie bin looked shit even by 2002 standards.


Although, it is an excellent name for a band.


----------



## fucthest8 (Aug 26, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Although, it is an excellent name for a band.



Also a nicely confusing tagline. Ta dah.


----------



## fucthest8 (Aug 26, 2014)

Although, shouldn't it be Mickey?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2014)

fucthest8 said:


> Although, shouldn't it be Mickey?


In my universe, Rose's Dad is still alive.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

Oh btw Karen Gillian's new show "Selfie" is on, and it and she is fucking dire.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

New Who just needs to get back to telling stories. Each week a cool story, or perhaps a zwei parter (i like the serial format of old - Genesis amounts to a 3 hour movie!). If one week the adventure about victorian shennaigans doesn't satisfy then you get the promise of next week's deeps space terrors as something different.

All that has been abanoned so far by Moffat. Give me the Impossible Planet not the IMpossible Girl.

That was a scary episode! But nothing beats Kinda (yabo shakey!)/Snakedance for freakout weird horro! Those two creeped me the fuck out as a kid; Teegan thinks she's over it and then they reprise it with Snakedance! Boom! Terrified! 

Davidson's run was decent - we even got an Omeag episode! Where's Omega nowwadays? Fucking awesome villain!

In conclusion: Tom Baker's grin is the greatest thing on earth.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> Oh btw Karen Gillian's new show "Selfie" is on, and it and she are fucking dire.


Her accent in the trailer is horrific!


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Her accent in the trailer is horrific!



It's unspeakable.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

Human nature is to my mind perfect it's old Who meets new Who and its marvelous The Doctor at his most wonderful, human, and cruel.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 26, 2014)

8den said:


> Human nature is to my mind perfect it's old Who meets new Who and its marvelous The Doctor at his most wonderful, human, and cruel.



Wasn't that from a dr Who novel?


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Wasn't that from a dr Who novel?



Adapted from.


----------



## 8den (Aug 26, 2014)

And to add 





This is my favourite doctor who moment of all time. "I have no weapons, no plan, and doesn't that terrify you?"


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 27, 2014)

8den said:


> And to add
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The bloody soundtrack volume is more terrifying


----------



## 8den (Aug 27, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> The bloody soundtrack volume is more terrifying



And the head spin from John Barrowman et all is terrible.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 27, 2014)

just seen it - was on holiday.

there was a lot i liked.  much of the character's existential stuff seemed to be in response to the wrong turns the show has been taking.  I liked the 'i'm not your boyfriend' stuff - with the acknowledgement that it wasn't necessarily clara but the doctor himself who had taken that role.... hinted at earlier by Vastra when she said to Clara that the younger faces were the doctor flirting and wanting to be accepted.  which is quite neatly circular in explaining why Tennant's doc was such a romeo, and why even Smith's was romantically aware.

I thought the slapstick was a bit too much in places.  Vastra send the doctor to sleep and he hits the mattress with a "boinnng" sound effect.... something similar as he falls down through the tree.  Another thing i can't quite remember... and so I thought: well maybe this is Moffat making it 'for the children'. But then it became much more subtle and clever.  so in retrospect - the slapstick seems dischordant.  speaking of which, when clara flicked he sonic screwdriver up with her feet - are we supposed to thing she hit him in the bollocks with it?   it seemed a bit of an odd gag for Dr Who - especially capaldi's doctor.

Speaking of that - loved him.  I liked the acknowledgement that this face keeps showing up in Doctor who's reality... and the 'choosing a face' aspect made nice validation of what Tom Baker's curator had said at the end of the anniversary episode.  I did lose the ends of some of his lines, which is a sound recording/mixing issue, i think.  I mean, Capaldi speaks fast and in quite dynamic volume patterns, but audibility should be fixed in the edit - even if he has to come back and loop the dialogue.  

Slightly better writing for women, but Vastra was doing that aggressive flirting that River and Amy both had as the sum of their personalities. Moffat really does have a certain type of behaviour he finds attractive in women, doesn't he?  anway, hopefully the divinely loopy Michele Gomez will get a character with more to her, and once Clara's stopped acting like a dumped 17 year old, she'll be able to come into her own, too.  Btw - anyone else think that when Strax read her mind she was imagining male gay porn?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 27, 2014)

be interesting to see how the daleks react to a) a new regeneration and b) 'doctor who?'


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 27, 2014)

binka said:


> not very impressed with the doctr begging clara to accept him for who he is. all he needed to say was 'im the doctor and if you dont like it you can fuck off'



That was for the new teenage audience that got all fannish with eleven. A lot of the dialogue was for them. Including the 'I'm not your boyfriend' stuff.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2014)

mcoy on UKGold 

Battlfield, Hapiness Patrol, Gretaest S


spanglechick said:


> just seen it - was on holiday.
> 
> there was a lot i liked.  much of the character's existential stuff seemed to be in response to the wrong turns the show has been taking.  I liked the 'i'm not your boyfriend' stuff - with the acknowledgement that it wasn't necessarily clara but the doctor himself who had taken that role.... hinted at earlier by Vastra when she said to Clara that the younger faces were the doctor flirting and wanting to be accepted.  which is quite neatly circular in explaining why Tennant's doc was such a romeo, and why even Smith's was romantically aware.
> 
> ...



It was off 'At least I think you could call it exercising'

because all thats going on in claras brain is 'Twinks n Bears 5'


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 27, 2014)

I preface my opinions on the episode by saying I'm Moffat's harshest critic, I hate the cunt.

I really loved the episode. I really like Capaldi's doctor. I was perfectly happy with his loopy stuff at the beginning. The stuff with the old tramp dude felt slightly menacing, I like menacing. I loved it when he abandoned Clara. I mean, yeah, he came back, but that moment was great. I loved the ambiguity at the end when you don't know whether he pushed him or whether he jumped (blates jumped). One of the things that I really didn't like about eleven was that he was basically a good time charlie with little thought for consequences - one of the most jarring episodes for me was the one where Diana Rigg falls down the stairs at the end, and eleven's all like, "oops, lol!" What? That's your reaction? Fuck off.  So I'm glad to see a return to a bit of a conversation about to kill or not to kill. Whatever you think about ten, I liked the way that sort of thing was dealt with. With eleven it felt more like they were just the Scooby gang heading off for hijinks. So, more of this kind of thing from Saturday's episode, please.

There was an awful lot about boyfriends - I'm not your boyfriend (to Clara), he's my boyfriend (from Missy). The former was, at least in part, aimed at the new teenage audience who got into the programme during eleven's stint - I'd even go as far as to say specifically the American teenage audience. In the weeks leading up to the start of the new series they did a MASSIVE promo tour of America. They court the audience there like they've never done here. And it is a big audience for them. Who is a different beast than it was back in the day, and since nine and ten were in the role. When we say he's writing for the audience, that audience isn't British mums and dads and their kids sitting in front of their tellies with their tea on their knee. Not only them, anyway. It's also armies of teenage girls who spend 8 hours a day reblogging gifs on tumblr. There's nothing wrong with the audience having evolved, but we have to expect different things as a result. 

Aaaanyway, I found the 'I'm not your boyfriend' stuff pretty good, although I thought it went on a bit. Clara's role was greatly improved upon and she started to become the character I wish she'd been since her first episode. I'd rather companions be there to experience the adventures on our behalf and to help the doctor solve the problems, rather than being the problem that exists solely to be solved. That's especially annoying when you take into consideration Moffat's fucked up ideas about women and what they are as foreign objects of frustration and confusion to him. They are mothers or girlfriends or femme fatales or problems that require solving or fixing. I liked the stuff with Vastra and Jenny and it made them seem more like real people in a relationship (he has a rather difficult history with how he writes gay people too). However, he seemed to feel the need to throw in all that stuff about flirting, because I guess lesbians when they are around other women only have one thing on their mind, right? That was his male fantasy/inability to imagine women problem coming to the fore.

Back to the boyfriend thing: my heart sank when Missy said 'he's my boyfriend'. We've just been through all this stuff that seemingly divorces Capaldi from the old bullshit that pervaded every script over the course of eleven's stint (and Rose and Martha), where everyone's in love with him and women can't possibly have any kind of platonic relationship with him because secretly they all want in his pants... and then we get this potentially really interesting baddie at the end whose only hint at their relationship to the doctor and their motivation is 'he's my boyfriend'.  And I took it that we're meant to see her as a bit insane, so there goes the crazy woman chasing the poor man she can't have analogy as well. I really, really hope this storyline surprises me and it isn't the shower of misogynistic shite I'm expecting it to be, because this first episode felt like a renewal in more ways than one -- but sadly my absolute hatred of the old, bitter cunt means I have little faith.

And frankly, he only named her Missy so he can sit back and chauvinistically chuckle when he gets the Doctor to say, "now look here, Missy." Cunt.

I loved the new opening. It seems I'm in a minority there, but I thought the music was great.

Strax was wonderful. I was glad there was no bullying bullshit from the doctor like there was with eleven. His 'melt him with acid' bit was perfect. I was more than happy with the slapstick stuff, it doesn't usually bother me. I was shocked when we saw the dinosaur get burned to death. Again with the menacing and dark. I like that.

The plot itself, with the robots looking for paradise... meh. But to be honest I saw it more just like the hook on which to hang the introduction of Capaldi, and the episode worked as a whole for me. I'm less excited about the Daleks - they feel far too overused and I was never fully convinced of the way he brought them back seemingly from absolute extinction without ever really feeling the need to explain properly just why there were suddenly thousands of them again. To be honest at this point the Daleks bore me, and I'm sad about that because they used to feel epic.

So, overall I loved it. There's a lot to be excited about. Capaldi is great (I had problems hearing his dialogue at times too - I chuckled at the thought of all the Americans being confused as fuck about what he was saying). Strax, Vastra and Jenny should have their own show. Clara was the best we've ever seen her. I remain cautiously optimistic about the rest of the series, while not completely shedding those concerns about Moffat's ability to not be a sexist cuntwaffle.

9.5/10.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2014)

we've already bought and paid for it through the license here I suppose. Whereas yankdem will have to pay for it on BBC America.

ooh, and merch of course. Merch sales in a single large state could dwarf english sales. I hope the bring out some epic tat for americans that I can get on ebay. This is by far the cheekiest cunt of a doctor who toy:

remember this? the last human?









well heres the 'destroyed Cassandra' toy:









IT'S JUST AN EMPTY FRAME!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 27, 2014)

Thinking about it, that 'I'm not your boyfriend' stuff could be viewed positively (when you look at him saying he was the one who is to blame) or negatively.

Negatively because Moffat's a condescending fuckknuckle when it comes to large parts of the audience (teenage girls and/or anyone who criticises him), and you could see it as him looking down on all the girls who fancied Smith/eleven and who spend infinite amounts of time writing fanfic and drawing fanart and creating gif sets. Without them he wouldn't have half the market he does to peddle his merch.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Merch sales in a single large state could dwarf english sales.



*dons pedant fez*

Not really, the most populous state, California, is less populous than England alone. 

I am a bit amazed by the popularity of Who over there - front cover of Entertainment Weekly etc. I really hope that the US demographic isn't catered for _too_ much though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> *dons pedant fez*
> 
> Not really, the most populous state, California, is less populous than England alone.
> 
> I am a bit amazed by the popularity of Who over there - front cover of Entertainment Weekly etc. I really hope that the US demographic isn't catered for _too_ much though.




second biggest beeb import after Top Gear apparently. I read somewhere that (as with Game of Thrones) the bods who research this stuff have found that fantasy/sf done with british accents plays really well in america. Because its different enough to encourage that sense of the uncanny and the not-of-this-orld, but its not subtitles either


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 27, 2014)

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/introducing-the-gatekeeper-who-is-she-65885.htm

A few theories as to who Missy is.

The author's theory about her being Clara is exactly something I could imagine Moffat doing and I would gladly see him pushed into a vat of his own excrement for it. It has exactly the kind of 'it all ties back up neatly together if you don't think too hard about it' thing he loves as it reinforces his own self-satisfied and inflated ego. (Did I mention I don't like him?) It also gives him an opportunity to ensure Clara isn't allowed to be anything other than a fucking problem to solve, yet again.

However, lots and lots of people in the comments making convincing arguments about her being the valeyard.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2014)

its never the valeyard. I called valeyard when it was actually jon simms master. I called valeyard when it was the War Doctor. Calling valeyard is the Who equivalent of Lupus. Its never lupus


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 27, 2014)

Vintage Paw

Moffat hate aside, did you not think silurian ladies conversation with Clara about clara being a big judge judy was quite good in a 'check your youth priv' kind of way? Sort of 'judge not a book by its cover'?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 27, 2014)

Robot, though, is fucking dire!

That robot costume is...not good.

Don't get me wrong, the old sets and the rubber monsters; that's part of the charm. In all seriousness there's a genuine 'buy in' that you as a viewer have to make, just as with rubber Yoda from ESB. You have to use your imagination, and when you do you are rwarded. Just not in Robot! 

New Who, while it certainly has its moments and is on balance a Good Thing, is just more cartoony. Instead of using your imagination ou get the overbearing soundtrack and the throwaway exposition in place of an actual plot. So you get 40 mins of companion/dovtor interplay and then minuites of the Dr suddenly recognising that Billy isn't possessed by the devil, but that it's actually a lost alien soul from Migraxulatulence trying to get home. Break out the sonic.

Give us more like Cold War!


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Aug 27, 2014)

A bit (lot) off topic but I used to think Rowan Atkinson could have made a great Doctor ...


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 27, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/introducing-the-gatekeeper-who-is-she-65885.htm
> 
> A few theories as to who Missy is.
> 
> ...


You've said it now! Of course it's going to be fucking Clara! Arg!

Or tjhe Black Guardian!


----------



## PursuedByBears (Aug 27, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Robot, though, is fucking dire!
> 
> That robot costume is...not good.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the old sets and the rubber monsters; that's part of the charm. In all seriousness there's a genuine 'buy in' that you as a viewer have to make, just as with rubber Yoda from ESB. You have to use your imagination, and when you do you are rwarded. Just not in Robot!



Have you seen the Ark in Space?  rofl.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 27, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> You've said it now! Of course it's going to be fucking Clara! Arg!
> 
> Or tjhe Black Guardian!



Always assumed the Trickster and the Black Guardian were the same being... 
I'm not ruling out Lady Olenna in Space


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 28, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Vintage Paw
> 
> Moffat hate aside, did you not think silurian ladies conversation with Clara about clara being a big judge judy was quite good in a 'check your youth priv' kind of way? Sort of 'judge not a book by its cover'?



I did like that part, actually. There was a lot of good stuff in there.


----------



## Epona (Aug 28, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> That was a scary episode! But nothing beats Kinda (yabo shakey!)/Snakedance for freakout weird horro! Those two creeped me the fuck out as a kid; Teegan thinks she's over it and then they reprise it with Snakedance! Boom! Terrified!



OMG this makes me feel old.  Pertwee was the Doctor when I was a kid, followed by Tom Baker.  I was pretty much grown up by the time Davison took over the TARDIS.  I do think he is underrated though, he had some great stories.  Loved Black Orchid for example.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 28, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> A bit (lot) off topic but I used to think Rowan Atkinson could have made a great Doctor ...




He already has been


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Aug 28, 2014)

Lol......they should help kept him in the role...


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 28, 2014)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Always assumed the Trickster and the Black Guardian were the same being...



It is a pity they didn't carry Sarah Jane on with just the kids. They had been carrying it throughout her illness anyway and could of worked just as well as a kids show.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 28, 2014)

At the time I hoped they would but now I doubt any of the others would have wanted to hang around even if were on offer.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 28, 2014)

Nine Bob Note said:


> At the time I hoped they would but now I doubt any of the others would have wanted to hang around even if were on offer.


Any of them done anything since?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 28, 2014)

Yeah, they seem to be doing alright for themselves in non-kids' tv and theatre


----------



## discobastard (Aug 28, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Robot, though, is fucking dire!
> 
> That robot costume is...not good.
> 
> ...



That's easy to say, but as a 3 year old watching Robot in an age before the proliferation of technology (both in the home and as an artistic medium) it was utterly captivating, I didn't need to make any kind of 'buy in' at all.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 28, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Robot, though, is fucking dire!
> 
> That robot costume is...not good.
> 
> ...



Ps totally agree with your point about new who. 

And I do agree that Robot ain't the best example, but look at Planet of Evil as an example of a story from the early 70s that really was quite scary and beautifully realised in terms of set and monster design.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 28, 2014)

Haven't seen Planet yet, I'm working through Tom Baker chronoligcally (almost).


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 28, 2014)

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ponds-to-lesbian-kiss-complaints-9696628.html


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2014)

only six bigots could be bothered to complain?


----------



## 8den (Aug 28, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ponds-to-lesbian-kiss-complaints-9696628.html



Really if you replace the words "gay agenda" in that article with " because I'm a homophobic cunt" it becomes funny


----------



## 8den (Aug 28, 2014)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Always assumed the Trickster and the Black Guardian were the same being...
> I'm not ruling out Lady Olenna in Space



I would. Moffat has no respect for the history of the show.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Aug 28, 2014)

8den said:


> I would. Moffat has no respect for the history of the show.



Lady Olenna is from Game of Thrones not the Who of old  I'm up for a crossover episode


----------



## 8den (Aug 28, 2014)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Lady Olenna is from Game of Thrones not the Who of old  I'm up for a crossover episode



#thingswearenevergoingtoseeoutsideofterribefanfiction


----------



## Chz (Aug 28, 2014)

I'd have to agree that if they somehow write Missy into being Clara, I will stop watching the bloody thing until Moffat quits. I think he can do a fantastic individual episode, but it always cocks up when he has bigger ideas. In fact, RTD was the opposite. The ultimate showrunner for Who is some unholy bastard child of the two.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 28, 2014)

8den said:


> Really if you replace the words "gay agenda" in that article with " because I'm a homophobic cunt" it becomes funny


a friend described the sexual orientation of a woman lizard / human woman as lizbian 
which I quite like.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 28, 2014)

you'd have thought that the bigot brigade stopped watching during the Captain Jack era


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 28, 2014)

Chz said:


> I'd have to agree that if they somehow write Missy into being Clara, I will stop watching the bloody thing until Moffat quits. I think he can do a fantastic individual episode, but it always cocks up when he has bigger ideas. In fact, RTD was the opposite. The ultimate showrunner for Who is some unholy bastard child of the two.



I agree. Moffat is capable of writing some stellar individual episodes, but when you give him a whole show to play with it becomes some grandiose monstrosity that feels more like an exercise in "I'm fucking amazing, I bet you wish you had my brain" rather than anything else. RTD's series arcs felt more subtle (even if they weren't they felt it without Moffat's bombast and Hollywood shiny) and he didn't hit you over the head with the little things that hinted at what was to come (like Saxon posters or Bad Wolf graffiti). Moffat though - that fucking crack had to be zoomed in on, it might as well have had flashing lights around it with a neon arrow pointing at it and a mariachi band off to the side singing about how it's an Important Thing. RTD's stuff tended to hang together a lot more comfortably, whereas Moffat's feels like a big chaotic fractured mess that somehow all comes together at the end through the power of something Moffat didn't tell you at the beginning and it probably doesn't matter anyway because 50% of the time we just reset time and it never happened because space magic. I know RTD had his fair share of head scratching moments, but to me at least it felt less contrived.

I wish I hadn't found that article that speculated Missy is Clara, because now I can't imagine him doing anything other than that. It's exactly the kind of thing he'd do, thinking he's being really clever, tying it all up in its own hermetically sealed loop as he is wont to do, and in the process will end up undermining everything good about Clara (that he hasn't already undermined).

GAH!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 28, 2014)

2 sleeps till Timelord Tucker Takes On The Daleks!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 28, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...ponds-to-lesbian-kiss-complaints-9696628.html


Thank god they didn't see the episode wher ethe Nestene Consciouness takes over a dildo delivery to Ann Summers!


----------



## ska invita (Aug 28, 2014)

wrong thread [edit]


----------



## Kuso (Aug 30, 2014)

Cracking intro!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 30, 2014)

That rarest of post-revival things - a genuinely good Dalek episode. Well, well.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 30, 2014)

I
Am
Pleased


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 30, 2014)

"No, I am not a good Dalek. You are a good Dalek."

Best part of the episode.


----------



## belboid (Aug 30, 2014)

Daleks in episode two, clearly worried about the new doc being accepted by the youngsters. A plot blatantly ripped off from varius other sources. And so much for no flirting.

And all quite brilliant, excellent episode.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 30, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> That rarest of post-revival things - a genuinely good Dalek episode. Well, well.


To be fair, you can't really go wrong with Daleks - except where hyrbids and face penises are concerned.


----------



## belboid (Aug 30, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> "No, I am not a good Dalek. You are a good Dalek."
> 
> Best part of the episode.


that or that last, long, lingering, backwards look.  A dalek in love.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 30, 2014)

belboid said:


> that or that last, long, lingering, backwards look.  A dalek in love.



That lingering look was epic. And hilarious. Hilariously epic.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 30, 2014)

I am liking the Capaldi.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 30, 2014)

belboid said:


> that or that last, long, lingering, backwards look.  A dalek in love.



Apparently the working copy that leaked has an additional scene at the end where Rusty self-destructs once back on board the Dalek ship. I think it's a much better idea to keep him as part of the story toolbox. A Dalek in love with the Doctor...


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Aug 30, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I am liking the Capaldi.



I am liking the Clara this series too.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 30, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I am liking the Clara this series too.


who knew all she needed was a strong doctor and not a children's entertainer.

which makes me wonder how well the Capaldi is going to go with the younger audiences!


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 30, 2014)

Matt who?


----------



## Wilf (Aug 30, 2014)

The thing with Michelle Gomez is going to be a bit shit if she hoovers up everyone who dies as a result of the doctor. Thought the episode was better than last week though.


----------



## prunus (Aug 30, 2014)

Wilf said:


> The thing with Michelle Gomez is going to be a bit shit if she hoovers up everyone who dies as a result of the doctor. Thought the episode was better than last week though.



Not just who dies - specifically who sacrifices themselves for the greater good at his behest.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 30, 2014)

prunus said:


> Not just who dies - specifically who sacrifices themselves for the greater good at his behest.


Outer space Captain Oates time then.  Have a feeling she's going to get very irritating. What worked on Green Wing may not here.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 30, 2014)

It occured to me watching this episode: RTD, a Welshman, had the entire series filmed in Cardiff. Now Steven Moffat, a Scotsman, has cast a Scottish Doctor and a Scottish... Big Bad TBC thing.

It's supposed to be the _British _Broadcasting Corporation, not the Welsh and Scottish Broadcasting Corporation


----------



## T & P (Aug 30, 2014)

When the dalek uttered the line 'resistance is futile' I started daydreaming about a Star Trek NG- Doctor Who crossover episode. How good would have been to see the Doctor and Picard cross paths. So much potential... Never going to happen though


----------



## T & P (Aug 30, 2014)

Oh, and the commander bloke in this episode reminded me of Wolowitz off The Big Bang Theory as he might look aged 50.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 30, 2014)

T & P said:


> When the dalek uttered the line 'resistance is futile' I started daydreaming about a Star Trek NG- Doctor Who crossover episode. How good would have been to see the Doctor and Picard cross paths. So much potential... Never going to happen though


You'd almost think they'd watched this as well.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Aug 30, 2014)

Good episode, Im very relieved


----------



## Kuso (Aug 30, 2014)

T & P said:


> Oh, and the commander bloke in this episode reminded me of Wolowitz off The Big Bang Theory as he might look aged 50.



Who? Tyres from spaced? 

Absolutely loved that episode! Pretty damn dark, loads of people getting smoked. Especially after the doctor fixes the dalek and the whole hatred in his heart thing. 

Matt Smith had actually grown on me but they story lines were just wack. But Capaldi is ace!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 30, 2014)

Kuso said:


> *Who? Tyres from spaced? *
> 
> Absolutely loved that episode! Pretty damn dark, loads of people getting smoked. Especially after the doctor fixes the dalek and the whole hatred in his heart thing.
> 
> Matt Smith had actually grown on me but they story lines were just wack. But Capaldi is ace!



THAT'S who he was! It was bugging the shit out of me


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 30, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> THAT'S who he was! It was bugging the shit out of me


That's all he'll ever be to me


----------



## Kuso (Aug 30, 2014)

Haha same, could see him reaching for the dalek lasers, safe as fuck mate, safe as fuck


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 30, 2014)

I couldn't see past the (glorious) beard.

Now, if he'd have started raving to the lasers, that would have been different.


----------



## Kuso (Aug 30, 2014)

Outtakes...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 30, 2014)

Oatcakes?


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 30, 2014)

What's the Doctor working on? There was all the chalking in the bedroom last week and a blackboard full of equations in the Tardis. Something to do with Gallifrey?


----------



## gnoriac (Aug 31, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> who knew all she needed was a strong doctor and not a children's entertainer.
> 
> which makes me wonder how well the Capaldi is going to go with the younger audiences!


He's gonna make them hide behind the sofa which is what the Doctor's supposed to do.
The effect it had on me 50-odd years ago when the daleks first hit the TV screen.


----------



## Cid (Aug 31, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I couldn't see past the (glorious) beard.
> 
> Now, if he'd have started raving to the lasers, that would have been different.



Should have had a 'my work here is done' piece to camera.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 31, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> What's the Doctor working on? There was all the chalking in the bedroom last week and a blackboard full of equations in the Tardis. Something to do with Gallifrey?


All will be revealed in the final episode of the series in a "oh gosh isn't he clever the clues were there all along" yawnfest


----------



## PursuedByBears (Aug 31, 2014)

Nice to see Vod, Dolorous Edd and Tyres on a spaceship.

Is Danny PINK soldier BLUE's brother somehow resurrected and dropped back in time and space?

Why is Missy collecting the souls of people who sacrifice themselves to save the Doctor?  I don't think she's the Rani anymore but I wonder if she's the Tardis' consciousness.


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 31, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> who knew all she needed was a strong doctor and not a children's entertainer.
> 
> which makes me wonder how well the Capaldi is going to go with the younger audiences!


my seven year old granddaughter likes him a lot already, she also thinks Clara is much better now. As for tonight episode it was interesting and good, also I know it's a bit out there but maybe Danny is an ex- soldier with some emotional baggage who is now a teacher


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 31, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I
> Am
> Pleased


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 31, 2014)

its good to see the dalek antibodies. Doctor Who without daleks is like WW2 film with no Nazis in it


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 31, 2014)

'am I good man' was clunkily coming but I think it works. Thats always been the Docs self-doubt hasn't it. No you are not a good man. ou hold by a fingernail to a percieved notion of justice but you are a genocidal maniac. hth.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 31, 2014)

PursuedByBears said:


> Nice to see Vod, Dolorous Edd and Tyres on a spaceship.
> 
> Is Danny PINK soldier BLUE's brother somehow resurrected and dropped back in time and space?
> 
> Why is Missy collecting the souls of people who sacrifice themselves to save the Doctor?  I don't think she's the Rani anymore but I wonder if she's the Tardis' consciousness.


Yes, the colours (THE COLOURS!) must be significant. My guess is that he's a soldier from a future war and something.


----------



## 8den (Aug 31, 2014)

I am the only who who basically saw it as a rehash of Eccels "Dalek"?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 31, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> It occured to me watching this episode: RTD, a Welshman, had the entire series filmed in Cardiff. Now Steven Moffat, a Scotsman, has cast a Scottish Doctor and a Scottish... Big Bad TBC thing.
> 
> It's supposed to be the _British _Broadcasting Corporation, not the Welsh and Scottish Broadcasting Corporation


That's right. I'd forgotten British means English.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 31, 2014)

It was great. Enjoyed it.  Capaldi was fantastic.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 31, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> That's right. I'd forgotten British means English.


It occured to me later that the conspiracy goes even further! Not since Ecclescake have we not had a Scot in the cast, either as Doctor or companion.

I pay my licence fee, I don't have to put up with this anti-English agenda! There's agendas flying all over this damn show 

/disgusted of surbibia



danny la rouge said:


> Capaldi was fantastic.


While I still thought there were a couple of missteps in the writing, I would defintiely agree on Capaldi - seems to have settled in straight away and has a very different presence to 10 and 11 (for obvious and more subtle reasons).


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 31, 2014)

i like him - i wasn't 100% sold on the story, but daleks bore me.  They've sorted the audibility of his dialogue, thankfully.  

so - clara's new boyfriend...  a comment on the 'troops to teachers' initiative?  I'd rather she didn't need a love life.  Once again: the best companion of new who was Donna - and she wasn't romantically involved with anyone.  I suppose it gives them an out if she is leaving at xmas.  he'll do well in the tardis.  Battle experienced. Mirror's the doctor's issues over having to kill.

But... not all female characters need to be in relationships, Moffatt.  

However on that point, there were a surprisingly un-moffat number of Bechdel test-passing scenes. (TWO female soldiers.  Female soldier AND female big bad).


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 31, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I suppose it gives them an out if she is leaving at xmas.  he'll do well in the tardis.  Battle experienced. Mirror's the doctor's issues over having to kill.


Do you mean Danny? You think he's being set up as the new companion? Could be interesting, as one review said they did a pretty good job of establishing him in just one episode.

While browsing the wiki for this episode I found out that Moffat apparently calls Michelle Gomez's character the "Gatekeeper of the Nethersphere". Not sure if that actually adds anything, but there y'go.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 31, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Do you mean Danny? You think he's being set up as the new companion? Could be interesting, as one review said they did a pretty good job of establishing him in just one episode.
> 
> While browsing the wiki for this episode I found out that Moffat apparently calls Michelle Gomez's character the "Gatekeeper of the Nethersphere". Not sure if that actually adds anything, but there y'go.


yeah far too much backstory to be an incidental.  i'm not sure he'll be a full-on companion, but he'll definitely get tardis time.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 31, 2014)

You can't spell 'heroic end of season sacrifice' without Danny Pink!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 31, 2014)

belboid said:


> that or that last, long, lingering, backwards look.  A dalek in love.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 31, 2014)

needs moar krynoids


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 31, 2014)

Missy's making an army of people to kill the doctor (because she'll make them see he twists people's good will in order to force them to die for him) and at the end he'll call on their power of love and shit to turn on her instead (or at least to stop them turning on him), in large part thanks to Danny Pink, and it'll be all about how soldiers aren't just mindless killing machines but are moral people often co-opted for bad things but ultimately thinking, feeling individuals capable of love. And shit.

It was all there in that ep last night.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Aug 31, 2014)

Maybe Missy is Susan!

Isn't she a timelord being an unearthly child?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Aug 31, 2014)

Season finale spoiler...


----------



## Santino (Aug 31, 2014)

Two references to philosophers so far - Marcus Aurelius in episode 1 and Aristotle last night. Will keep ears peeled for more.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 31, 2014)

I've just watched it, pretty good.

I'm beginning to really like Capaldi's Doctor, but I wish he'd either unbutton that top button or buy a bloody tie


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Aug 31, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Season finale spoiler...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's excellent 

Actually that's flippin genius...fair play to you.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 31, 2014)

Santino said:


> Two references to philosophers so far - Marcus Aurelius in episode 1 and Aristotle last night. Will keep ears peeled for more.



next week is marcuse


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 1, 2014)

Disturbing photoshop is disturbing


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 1, 2014)

How did they get out of the Dalek?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 1, 2014)

good stuff - capaldi coming on nicely. Next weeks looks like the seemingly obligatory 'novelty' episode. Rather have the doctor going back to the real middle ages.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 1, 2014)

8den said:


> I am the only who who basically saw it as a rehash of Eccels "Dalek"?



Nope, Greebo and I both remarked on that. I may have made a flip remark about how Northern Doctor and Scottish Doctor both seemed to have over-active dalek-angst.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 1, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> How did they get out of the Dalek?


The script told them to.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 1, 2014)

Was there a leetle frisson between the Doctor and Journey at the end?

Two quite weak episodes so far.  The second was a bit better.  And it had Tyres from Spaced in who I love.

I really like the Welcome To Heaven lady.  She's been in it before, with an eye patch, right?


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Sep 1, 2014)

All I need to know is... is it shit? I have boycotted since late Tennant.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 1, 2014)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> All I need to know is... is it shit? I have boycotted since late Tennant.


It's medium shit, yes.

Capaldi is ok but it's not as good as Smith/ Pond story/ conceptwise so far.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 1, 2014)

8115 said:


> Was there a leetle frisson between the Doctor and Journey at the end?
> 
> Two quite weak episodes so far.  The second was a bit better.  And it had Tyres from Spaced in who I love.
> 
> I really like the Welcome To Heaven lady.  She's been in it before, with an eye patch, right?


madame korvakian (edit - korvarian) ? no - completely different actress.  this is Michelle Gomez, the other was Frances Barber (best part of ten years older).


----------



## 8115 (Sep 1, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> madame korvakian (edit - korvarian) ? no - completely different actress.  this is Michelle Gomez, the other was Frances Barber (best part of ten years older).


Oh thanks.  They have similar make up and hair, or something.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Sep 1, 2014)

8115 said:


> It's medium shit, yes.
> 
> Capaldi is ok but it's not as good as Smith/ Pond story/ conceptwise so far.




I thought the smith/pond story was absolute shite so I guess I'll be giving this a miss.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 1, 2014)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> I thought the smith/pond story was absolute shite so I guess I'll be giving this a miss.



The current dynamic is very different, and Capaldi is very, very different. I'd check the second episode of this current series out, unless you are happy to dismiss something with no actual knowledge of it.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Sep 1, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> unless you are happy to dismiss something with no actual knowledge of it.



This is an essential life skill IMO, but you have tempted me back into the 'maybe' zone


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 1, 2014)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> I thought the smith/pond story was absolute shite so I guess I'll be giving this a miss.


it's too early to judge the arc, but the two episodes so far...  the dynamic and characterisation...  it feels like a different show to the Smith/pond years.  That always felt like an over-funded CBBC programme.  This feels like proper quality family drama.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 1, 2014)

I want K9 back... a new, Arduino/Raspberry Pi powered K9


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 1, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> I want K9 back... a new, Arduino/Raspberry Pi powered K9



There's a potential K9-ish Dalek around now. Old Rusty has the hots for the Doctor...


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 2, 2014)

they can't keep turning baddies good, strax, rusty. Whats next, friendly cybermen?


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> they can't keep turning baddies good, strax, rusty. Whats next, friendly cybermen?


----------



## Santino (Sep 2, 2014)

He spelled out your joke for us, DotCommunist


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 2, 2014)




----------



## CNT36 (Sep 2, 2014)

Santino said:


> He spelled out your joke for us, DotCommunist


oh


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 2, 2014)




----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> they can't keep turning baddies good, strax, rusty. Whats next, friendly cybermen?



Well to be honest  they  alredy  did  frendly daleks  way way back   with troughton  and The Evil of the Daleks


----------



## gosub (Sep 4, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> What's the Doctor working on? There was all the chalking in the bedroom last week and a blackboard full of equations in the Tardis. Something to do with Gallifrey?


Open learning maths homework.   You can only go so far as a self certified Doctor.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

there was due to be a brief beheading in tonights show but its been cut by the prog makers due to recent circumstance. It'll probably turn up as a dvd extra at some point


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Sep 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> brief beheading.......but its been cut


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


>




erk, Freudian slip eh. At least I didn't say the episode was truncated eh!

Vintage Paw

did you see this article, I thought it tied slightly with what we discussed earlier when you were talking about Moffat the prophet's contempt for Who's teenage female fans.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> erk, Freudian slip eh. At least I didn't say the episode was truncated eh!
> 
> Vintage Paw
> 
> did you see this article, I thought it tied slightly with what we discussed earlier when you were talking about Moffat the prophet's contempt for Who's teenage female fans.



That's an excellent piece. I think there's an element of being torn for Moffat, because on the one hand he courts and wants the screaming teenage fans who come to the photo ops because they help drive the hype, they buy the merch, and they are a sign of the broad success of the show. At the same time, he hates that they have a voice, because an awful lot of them are very on point about such things as his sexism, and he'd rather they just watch the show, buy the merch, and not talk about it in any kind of critical way all over tumblr. But you can't have one without the other. Hence I think he's conflicted.

I admit to being happy there was an older doctor, but I don't think it was _quite_ in line with how the article put it. It's interesting the article didn't talk about eleven, and it's eleven that bugged me a lot (I am a big fan of ten and his trials and tribulations). Smith was the youngest doctor actor we've had, and even despite his hours in old man makeup I never got the feeling he was the oldest doctor so far. Whenever he talked about things he'd done in the past that had weighed on him, I never felt convinced, it never felt like it informed his actions and thinking to the extent it did ten. He came across as the fun-time-boy with - most of the time - nary a care in the world. Now, that could have worked beautifully, had there been more exploration of that carefree prankster exterior being a facade or a way of coping, but there really wasn't. He was the doctor of no consequences (something that I think thematically ties into the way Moffat's season plots come together so nicely in little hermetically sealed bubbles).

So I was excited about Capaldi, 1) because he's Capaldi, and 2) because I couldn't see him acting the prankster like Smith, I could see him bringing more conflict and depth while holding onto some subtle comedy. I admit it's easy to conflate that childish boy-doctor with the onslaught of teenage girl fans and start to imagine that fangirling is also a problem, but it's only a problem for Moffat and grumpy old cunts who want their Who like it was in the 70s. But if focus is kept on the characters of eleven and twelve I think you can have a decent discussion about the 'maturity' of the doctor and of the show without it needing to say anything about the fans.

And anyway, tumblr fucking loves Capaldi. Those teens aren't going anywhere.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 6, 2014)

A sample of one. My teenage niece likes 10,11 and 12 as well as genesis of the daleks and tomb of the cybermen. Perhaps she has the hots for Baker and Troughton.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

a fight over the water crossing with Capaldi taking on the LittleJohn role. You wankers


----------



## 8115 (Sep 6, 2014)

This is a bit weak so far.  If a load of cybermen don't turn up fast, I'm going to be very disappointed.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 6, 2014)

Hooray!  Robots!


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 6, 2014)

That wasn't anywhere near as bad as i thought it was going to be


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 6, 2014)

That was pants. Moving on...


----------



## 8115 (Sep 6, 2014)

It was poor.  Next weeks looks good although it appears to be the kind of horror themed Dr Who which will see me frightened to turn the lights out later on.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2014)

Absolutely excellent episode. Opium if the people


----------



## free spirit (Sep 6, 2014)

wtf was that bollocks about?

shoot a golden arrow into the outside of a rocket engine and it will magically make the engine go to full power then explode in orbit?

is it asking too much for a bit of science in our science-fiction?

The bit I do like though is clara taking charge


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 6, 2014)

Ha, that was lots of fun.


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2014)

"I'm leaving him a present" could have been phrased better. Maybe "I've saved him some time" or "I've done them a favour". Something like that rather than referring to Maid Marion as a present. I thought this one was Moffat too but apparently not.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 6, 2014)

free spirit said:


> is it asking too much for a bit of science in our science-fiction?



Yeah it would have been much better if a character had introduced a dense inactive metal into the hyper-critical whaaargarrrrrble-sperg chamber of a space ship disguised as a castle in Sherwood Forest.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

belboid said:


> Absolutely excellent episode. Opium if the people




peasants revolt reference also

Yeah I enjoyed that a lot, was prepared for it to be shit cos these historical ones can be but this one made the grade. All the old school robin hood tropes there. From the fight over a river crossing that leads to dual dunking, the golden arrow, the pisstake of the arrow that splits the other arow. Marvellous.

The little heaven bit, I missed that aside but it was to o with meta-plot. What was it he said about heaven?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

free spirit said:


> wtf was that bollocks about?
> 
> shoot a golden arrow into the outside of a rocket engine and it will magically make the engine go to full power then explode in orbit?
> 
> ...




its doctor who. its science fantasy. And mainly fantasy dressed in the technogubbins of sci fi.


----------



## cesare (Sep 6, 2014)

Loads of references to both the Errol Flynn and Kevin Costner Robins


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

The minute I realised they were collecting gold I knew it couldn't be cybermen.


Claras headress made her look like The Girl From Tommorow.

Also, must have been murder doing action scenes bogged down in that dress.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> peasants revolt reference also
> 
> Yeah I enjoyed that a lot, was prepared for it to be shit cos these historical ones can be but this one made the grade. All the old school robin hood tropes there. From the fight over a river crossing that leads to dual dunking, the golden arrow, the pisstake of the arrow that splits the other arow. Marvellous.
> 
> The little heaven bit, I missed that aside but it was to o with meta-plot. What was it he said about heaven?




The ships computer said they were heading for ' The promised land ' where Missy is. Surprised she didn't pop up


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2014)

I'm intrigued to know where the beheading would have come. As an accident while getting the chains off?

I could just read those leaked scripts I suppose.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 6, 2014)

I assume it was when they cut the robots arm off.


----------



## agricola (Sep 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> its doctor who. its science fantasy. And mainly fantasy dressed in the technogubbins of sci fi.



A golden arrow pinging against the side of a ship to help it achieve escape velocity, though.  

Thus far this series has been poor.


----------



## free spirit (Sep 6, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Yeah it would have been much better if a character had introduced a dense inactive metal into the hyper-critical whaaargarrrrrble-sperg chamber of a space ship disguised as a castle in Sherwood Forest.


Up til that point it kinda made sense in a doctor who way, melting gold down to make circuit boards...

the whole thing seemed a lot more in the vein of a farce than I've been used to in recent series.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

agricola said:


> A golden arrow pinging against the side of a ship to help it achieve escape velocity, though.
> 
> Thus far this series has been poor.



nothing will top when the power of belief turned wizened caged canary tennant back into the Doctor because...love..or something. 
Or the face of Bo.

Come on.


----------



## belboid (Sep 6, 2014)

8115 said:


> I assume it was when they cut the robots arm off.


Ohh, that makes sense.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 6, 2014)

belboid said:


> I'm intrigued to know where the beheading would have come. As an accident while getting the chains off?
> 
> I could just read those leaked scripts I suppose.





8115 said:


> I assume it was when they cut the robots arm off.


Technically there was a beheading, one of the robots got his head blasted off with the gold shields.

Which the robots kept shooting at, despite some only covering a quarter of the person wielding them


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

some good Alan-a-dale bits. He is totally the Bombadil of modern Robin Hood stuff. Near always excised for crimes of tweeness aforethought.


----------



## agricola (Sep 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> nothing will top when the power of belief turned wizened caged canary tennant back into the Doctor because...love..or something.
> Or the face of Bo.
> 
> Come on.



The face of Boe, his cat assistant, everyone kept in transit vans locked on the motorway because of a disease, the crabs, and the patches that gave emotions made a thousand times more sense than transmitting energy by the medium of firing a golden arrow, from a bow, several thousand yards in order to allow a spaceship to get into orbit and then blow up.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

it still made more sense than the ending to any christmas episode ever.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 6, 2014)

silly, daft but entertaining. Story - waferthin to woeful, but the fun bits were fun.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 6, 2014)

Well that was terrible.


----------



## Chz (Sep 6, 2014)

It wasn't totally awful, but it was very Mark Gatiss.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 6, 2014)

There was one good bit. 



Spoiler



"And after Lincoln..."
"Worksop?"
"The world!"


----------



## Santino (Sep 6, 2014)

Was that a picture of Patrick Troughton as Robin Hood in the database?


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 6, 2014)

Was it me or did the Doctor break out a can of Pertwee-era whup-ass on Robin at one point?  Venusian Akido? Hai!

I liked it, nice bit about stories transcending their beginnings.  The Doctor IS as real as Robin Hood now.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 6, 2014)

Santino said:


> Was that a picture of Patrick Troughton as Robin Hood in the database?



I think so


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 6, 2014)

Will be nice to see the proper episode (on the DVD?) with the beheading scene restored - apparently the sheriff was supposed to be beheaded and revealed as a robot according to the guardian review.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2014)

three mins cut was what I read elsewhere. It wouldn't have been a three min beheading though would it. They must have had to just cut a scene.


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 6, 2014)

Santino said:


> Was that a picture of Patrick Troughton as Robin Hood in the database?



Yup.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 6, 2014)

Ye gads! That was brilliant!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 6, 2014)

Presumably the bit where it looks like he was trying to climb out of the vat of molten gold, with his hands clutching the sides... I reckon the scene they cut was him climbing out and continuing to come at our merry threesome, and then getting beheaded (obviously being covered in molten gold would be a giveaway that he was a robot too).


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 6, 2014)

Great fun. That's 3 out of 3 hits. I declare this series a triumph.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 6, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Presumably the bit where it looks like he was trying to climb out of the vat of molten gold, with his hands clutching the sides... I reckon the scene they cut was him climbing out and continuing to come at our merry threesome, and then getting beheaded (obviously being covered in molten gold would be a giveaway that he was a robot too).



apparently it was during the fight with Robin, he loses his head and re-attaches it to make people realise he was a robot all along


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 7, 2014)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 7, 2014)

Oh! That last line makes a whole lot more sense now!


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 7, 2014)

that was enjoyable, a nice bit of nonsense that the grandkids enjoyed  as well.  as for the golden arrow it didn't cause the ship to blow up, it just provided an extra kick to get the ship into orbit before it blew,  something that the Doctor talked about twice during the episode.


----------



## Epona (Sep 7, 2014)

That was quite possibly the most stupid thing I've seen on TV for a while - loved it though.  Really liking Capaldi.

It was a bit like watching a favourite legend/myth be demolished in a large and messy explosion.


----------



## MikeMcc (Sep 7, 2014)

Preferred this one to previous ones, especially when he said he cheated with the arrows in the tournament.  It was much better than the clips from last week indicated that it would be.  Clips from next week looked interesting, does that mean I should set myself up for a disappointment?


----------



## Epona (Sep 7, 2014)

MikeMcc said:


> Preferred this one to previous ones, especially when he said he cheated with the arrows in the tournament.  It was much better than the clips from last week indicated that it would be.  Clips from next week looked interesting, does that mean I should set myself up for a disappointment?



Looking at the clips, I am hoping for something similar to "Empty Child" or "Blink" brilliance.  It looks awesome, all I can do is hope that I won't be disappointed.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 7, 2014)

If people are agreeing that was brilliant then I guess Dr who is something I just don't recognise anymore.


----------



## Chz (Sep 7, 2014)

That was exactly the sort of thing that Who should be, with the exception of just how _*precious*_ Gatiss gets about it all. A little nod here and there to the past and the odd bit of tongue in cheek is fine, he just doesn't understand where to stop.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 7, 2014)

If Capaldi is going to be reduced to miserly curmudgeonhood for the remainder of the season I think the show's headed for choppy waters! I liked it last week because it was darker, this was just a load of miderly shit with a weak plot and nothing to back it up. How did they escape the dungeon? One minute they were fighting over the keys, the next they'd pulled out the post they were shackled to and off out! 

If only the prisoners had thought to use the cutlery sooner, it would have been so much shorter!

Robin Hood himself made no sense at all. 

This whole 'veteran of the time war' shit has got to go. Yes, we get it, the Time War was bad. Hadn't we resolved all that crap now? Wasn't that the whole fucking point of the 50th episode as well? Redeeming John Hurt so he becomes ecclescake who meets Rose and finds his 'humanity' again? But nope, it's back to being shit again while the companion is token feisty young british grrl who remains remarkably unfazed by anything until the script calls for her to go 'ahhh monster!'


----------



## Santino (Sep 7, 2014)

He still witnessed (and perpetrated?) unimaginable horrors during the Time War.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 7, 2014)

All I know is that my 7 year old boy wants to be Robin Hood, and his cousin thinks the new Doctor is amazing!

That's all there is to be said, really.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 7, 2014)

I don't mind a bit of curmudgeon. Pertwee wasn't above a certain irascibility 

shit, even the northen Doctor of new who was a mard on occasion


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 7, 2014)

Santino said:


> He still witnessed (and perpetrated?) unimaginable horrors during the Time War.


I'm past caring about the Time War. It was a stupid idea in the first place. No more timelords? Great, let's just erase a massive part of the mythos of Dr Who.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 7, 2014)

Next week the doctor and clara debunk King Arthuer by discovering Merlin is actually a timetravelling used Tardis salesman, on the run from the Space Police.


----------



## 8den (Sep 7, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I'm past caring about the Time War. It was a stupid idea in the first place. No more timelords? Great, let's just erase a massive part of the mythos of Dr Who.



Okay you're getting a little bit precious here.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 7, 2014)

there had to be a big reset button. and once they had a new generation hooked, why they brought the time lords back. You have to remember by mcoys last days the vast majoprity of its target audience- children and families- thought it was naff and shit. There was a huge underground following over the dry period, the interregnum, enough residual love amongst viewers as nostalgia kicked in and so we got the 2001 TV movie. Which went some way to laying the ground for the new who. Even if it was a bit shit


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 7, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Next week the doctor and clara debunk King Arthuer by discovering Merlin is actually a timetravelling used Tardis salesman, on the run from the Space Police.




http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Merlin


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 7, 2014)

8den said:


> Okay you're getting a little bit precious here.


But this whole 'woe is me for i am the lonely timelord' has gone on since the days of 10. It needs to change. While i enjoyed Dalek's Fantastic Voyage last week, it was a rehash of 'Dalek' from the reign of ecclescake.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 7, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> there had to be a big reset button. and once they had a new generation hooked, why they brought the time lords back. You have to remember by mcoys last days the vast majoprity of its target audience- children and families- thought it was naff and shit. There was a huge underground following over the dry period, the interregnum, enough residual love amongst viewers as nostalgia kicked in and so we got the 2001 TV movie. Which went some way to laying the ground for the new who. Even if it was a bit shit


They ccan reinvent the Timelords, just not completely remove them from continuity. The doctor rebelled against them, he hated the timelord order and it's an important part of his character.


----------



## 8den (Sep 7, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> But this whole 'woe is me for i am the lonely timelord' has gone on since the days of 10. It needs to change. While i enjoyed Dalek's Fantastic Voyage last week, *it was a rehash of 'Dalek'* from the reign of ecclescake.



And I said the exact same thing several pages ago.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 7, 2014)

8den said:


> And I said the exact same thing several pages ago.


Well it's true. I don't think that fact makes it a bad episode, but it's yet more of the same 'i'm a survivor of the time war'.


----------



## belboid (Sep 7, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I'm past caring about the Time War. It was a stupid idea in the first place. No more timelords? Great, let's just erase a massive part of the mythos of Dr Who.


Stop watching then, you whining tosspot. We don't need another atomic suplex.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 7, 2014)

More blackboard action at the beginning. A lot better than I expected . Weak plot but saved by the leads. The Doctor was refered to as "the stranger" after being called "the other" two weeks ago.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2014)

That was... Well, crap really. But oddly enjoyable at the same time.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 7, 2014)

Hang on wasn't there a pertwee or troughton story were King John is a shapeshifting robot who loves baths?


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 7, 2014)

it was silly fun.   No "The Shakespeare Code", obviously - but a good Errol Flynn nob-gag, and Ben Miller was good value as The Sherrif.  I was distracted by Clara's head-dress, which must have been glued to her forehead - which isn't how they normally fix these things, on account of it looking weird.


----------



## spirals (Sep 7, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> it was silly fun.   No "The Shakespeare Code", obviously - but a good Errol Flynn nob-gag, and Ben Miller was good value as The Sherrif.  I was distracted by Clara's head-dress, which must have been glued to her forehead - which isn't how they normally fix these things, on account of it looking weird.



I found her head-dress really distracting too, I enjoyed the episode, weakest one so far though but I'm loving the new doctor and for a Mark Gatiss episode it wasn't too bad.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 7, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Hang on wasn't there a pertwee or troughton story were King John is a shapeshifting robot who loves baths?


Davison.


----------



## ebonics (Sep 8, 2014)

Ben Miller's Sheriff was the highlight for me. The story was weak but I came away stupidly entertained, anyway.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 8, 2014)

They might have got away with that episode if they'd cast a Robin Hood with some decent comic timing.


----------



## Mungy (Sep 9, 2014)

was probably the worst episode of all the new doctors. the golden arrow thing was just shit.

edited to add: I do like the capaldi though.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 9, 2014)

Mungy said:


> was probably the worst episode of all the new doctors.


Woah.

Woah.

Just... woah.



Mungy said:


> the golden arrow thing was just shit.


That, I will agree on. Leaving aside the fact that the robots seemingly didn't understand how to operate their own spaceship, they'd been harvesting shitloads of gold but that small amount was supposed to give them the boost they needed to escape Earth's atmosphere? And it didn't even go in any kind of reactor or anything to do with the engine at all, it just got stuck on the outside and that sorted it out?! Sweet jaysis...


----------



## Mungy (Sep 9, 2014)

i wasn't including the christmas ones. they have a crapness all of their own


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 9, 2014)

Mungy said:


> i wasn't including the christmas ones. they have a crapness all of their own


There have been worse regular series episodes than this latest one though! The one where the Doctor is regenerated by the magic of thought sticks out, though that was more a single moment of "oh _piss off" _rather than a whole episode.

There have been worse ones, I just can't think of them right now...


----------



## Mungy (Sep 9, 2014)

robin was crap. the sheriff was decent enough. sword fighting with a fucking spoon. I know a sword fighter and she'd have sliced and diced him. a fucking spoon    the aforementioned arrow. the "homing arrow i made earlier" blue peter moment. the more i think about it, it is crapper than tom baker's robot


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2014)

Mungy said:


> was probably the worst episode of all the new doctors. the golden arrow thing was just shit.
> 
> edited to add: I do like the capaldi though.


It was a really shit episode.

but i'm sure there were worse.

like the one with little monsters made out of fat. And wasn't there one with Peter Kay in it?


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2014)

And the olympics one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 9, 2014)

James Corden


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 9, 2014)

Mungy said:


> robin was crap. the sheriff was decent enough. sword fighting with a fucking spoon. I know a sword fighter and she'd have sliced and diced him. a fucking spoon    the aforementioned arrow. the "homing arrow i made earlier" blue peter moment. the more i think about it, it is crapper than tom baker's robot


Aye, the spoon was a low point too. Despite that, I still think its average was higher than that of other episodes.



joustmaster said:


> And wasn't there one with Peter Kay in it?





joustmaster said:


> And the olympics one.


Those were two that came to mind, but the Peter Kay one sort of had an interesting strand with the idea of 'Doctor-watchers'. The Olympics one I thought I was just being mean


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 9, 2014)

the history romps are often more fail than win but this was OK, not as good as Vampires of Venice but still worth my time


----------



## Santino (Sep 9, 2014)

space traffic jams


----------



## belboid (Sep 9, 2014)

Mungy said:


> sword fighting with a fucking spoon. I know a sword fighter and she'd have sliced and diced him. a fucking spoon


I take it you got a First in 'Missing the Point Spectacularly'


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> I take it you got a First in 'Missing the Point Spectacularly'


A SPOON!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 9, 2014)

it hurts more because its blunt


----------



## Mungy (Sep 9, 2014)

belboid said:


> I take it you got a First in 'Missing the Point Spectacularly'


don't have a degree in anything


----------



## AverageJoe (Sep 9, 2014)

Not to labour the point about the spoon, but.....


----------



## Chz (Sep 9, 2014)

Surely the episode gets a *bit* of love just for Capaldi giving us all the finger.


----------



## Pingu (Sep 9, 2014)

I am really liking this series so far and next weeks is one to watch with my nephew after which i will "spot" the dummy arm that will be placed under the bed for him...

ALSO AND i AM really really really sorry for doing this but:


Clara






giggity


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 9, 2014)

worst episode of new who: the matt smith one with the choir singers on the rock.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 9, 2014)

or: ww2 daleks (with the fugly primary colour daleks).


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 9, 2014)

or...  the lazarus project


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 9, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> worst episode of new who: the matt smith one with the choir singers on the rock.


that one must be bad. i seemed to have blocked it out, as I don't remember it at all.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 10, 2014)

the fires of akahtan I liked that one, it was sweet, and love and monsters, well apart from the monster  is one of my favourites


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 10, 2014)

worst new who episode?

phwww... there's some stiff competition. 

Daleks in Manhattan is down there though.


----------



## Chz (Sep 10, 2014)

Face penises!


----------



## belboid (Sep 10, 2014)

42, the Olympics one, the bloody adipose one, they were all rather pants.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2014)

oh god the fat babies. I'd forgtotten


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 10, 2014)

Adipose!


----------



## 8den (Sep 10, 2014)

Daleks in Manhattan, 
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
Fear Her
The Rings of Akhaten
The Lazarus Experiment
The Idiot’s Lantern
And that stupid one with Agatha Christy and a giant wasp.
And any christmas special, aside from the 1st one. 

I also note, any episode where the doctor prats around on a moped, anti gravity bike, or space trike. The one thing the dire American movie taught us is the Doctor should not piss about on a bike. 
*


*


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 10, 2014)




----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 10, 2014)

Bring back the Who-mobile!


_(Maybe not)_


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2014)

Bessie lol


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 10, 2014)

i like the adipose.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 10, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> i like the adipose.


I'll extend that.  quite apart from my not minding the adipose themselves, the baddie was well done and the reunion stuff with donna was great.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 10, 2014)

I found the ho-ho farts slitheen way more stupid a monster tbf. Not much in it though. I probably let the slitheen slide because farts are intrinsically funny


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 10, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> i like the adipose.



My name is TheHoodedClaw and I've got an adipose stress toy. There, I've said it, a weight off my shoulders.


----------



## 8den (Sep 10, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> My name is TheHoodedClaw and I've got an adipose stress toy. There, I've said it, a weight off my shoulders.



That can't have been easy. I'm proud of you. Now please leave you disgust us.


----------



## 8den (Sep 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I found the ho-ho farts slitheen way more stupid a monster tbf. Not much in it though. I probably let the slitheen slide because farts are intrinsically funny



The farts were shit, the CGI was TERRIBLE. The costumes were like something from the 80s.


----------



## 8den (Sep 10, 2014)

Plumdaff said:


>



Shut up. Pewtree's doctor used guns and dressed like a elderly hipster.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 10, 2014)

8den said:


> The farts were shit, the CGI was TERRIBLE. The costumes were like something from the 80s.



The director of that block of episodes hasn't worked on the programme again


----------



## 8115 (Sep 10, 2014)

Adipose was terrible.  It was really bad.  And wasn't it around the time of the genuinely freaking terrifying "Donna what's that on your back" which sends shivers down my spine to this day, and it suffered in contrast.


----------



## 8den (Sep 10, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The director of that block of episodes hasn't worked on the programme again



dp


----------



## 8den (Sep 10, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The director of that block of episodes hasn't worked on the programme again



TV doesn't work like that a Director on TV show is someone who shoots the episode and delivers a cut and then lets the producers  have their wicked way. The producers commission the script, hire the actors etc etc.... 

I've worked in British SciFI action telly like Doctor Who and worked with many of the crew of Who, and blaming the director is deflecting attention that this was a very childish episode.

Simply put a director couldn't have introduced the farting without prior producer approval, would be well off the show before final CGI effects were delivered, and couldn't be responsible for the worst aspects of the show. Seriously TV directors, particularly UK TV directors shoot the scene they were paid to shot, and if they have professional pride they cover the scene the way they want it, and edit it that way, and after a few days editing they need to let it go and give it to the producers who will mess with it for months.


----------



## 8den (Sep 10, 2014)

I hated Katherine Tate.

1. I disliked her as a actress/comedian before Who. 

2. It's quiet clear she made zero effort to learn about the show outside her lines (The Elizabeth Taylor school of acting). Seriously watch her on the Doctor Who Buzzcocks episode, she's fucking baffled. Joe Wiley is disgusted by her complete ignorance about Doctor Who (For fucks sake Tate admits thats she didn't realise that his name wasn't who, after FREAKING SHOOTING A BLOODY SERIES OF WHO.)


----------



## 8115 (Sep 10, 2014)

She was being funny.  She was absolutely great, she was a second lead, not just a companion.


----------



## 8den (Sep 10, 2014)

8115 said:


> She was being funny.  She was absolutely great, she was a second lead, not just a companion.



No I've watched the buzzcocks thing a few times, she's genuinely ignorant and laughing about her ignorance, throughout the show. And since new who launched the companion is always behind the doctor in the credits ergo always second lead. Your argument isn't pedantry it's just stupid.

Tate was shrill stupid and annoying. She was, I'll give you this, a million times better than Martha. And she had some of the best scripts. But I'd have loved to see a better actor take on turn left. Imagine if someone sensible in the BBC saw Blink and snatched Carey Mulligan to do ONE series of who. Just imagine the apidose episode with Sally Sparrow instead of Donna Noble. Just imagine any Donna Noble episode with Sally. 

Anyone going to argue with me that Carey Mulligan would have been worse than Katherine Tate?


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 10, 2014)

Tate is one of the worst things to happen to TV. (until Mrs Browns Boy's, any way)


----------



## 8115 (Sep 10, 2014)

She's just prettier?

Katherine Tate had so much depth as Donna Noble, she was great.  Like a proper, girls, you don't have to flutter your eyelids, you can be genuinely awkward, clumsy and completely tactless and still be queen of the Tardis better than anyone else.  Proper feminist companion.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 10, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Tate is one of the worst things to happen to TV. (until Mrs Browns Boy's, any way)


I don't really like her much in anything else but she was great in Dr Who.


----------



## Santino (Sep 10, 2014)

I like Catherine Tate in most things she's done.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 10, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Tate is one of the worst things to happen to TV. (until Mrs Browns Boy's, any way)



The only non-Who thing I've seen of hers was the film Starter for Ten, and she's good in that, so I didn't really have any pre-conceptions to bring to her portrayal of Donna Noble. I thought she was great tbh, and I'm still a bit peeved about how her arc ended.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 10, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Tate is one of the worst things to happen to TV. (until Mrs Browns Boy's, any way)


I was never keen on her but I did let out a bit of a chortle @ this...


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 11, 2014)

8den said:


> I hated Katherine Tate.
> 
> 1. I disliked her as a actress/comedian before Who.
> 
> 2. It's quiet clear she made zero effort to learn about the show outside her lines (The Elizabeth Taylor school of acting). Seriously watch her on the Doctor Who Buzzcocks episode, she's fucking baffled. Joe Wiley is disgusted by her complete ignorance about Doctor Who (For fucks sake Tate admits thats she didn't realise that his name wasn't who, after FREAKING SHOOTING A BLOODY SERIES OF WHO.)


 I liked the fact that she was honest about her ignorance it made the show funnier sort of, and  I wasn't keen on the idea when I heard that she had been cast. but she turned out to be my favourite New who companion so far


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 11, 2014)

8den said:


> I hated Katherine Tate.
> 
> 1. I disliked her as a actress/comedian before Who.
> 
> 2. It's quiet clear she made zero effort to learn about the show outside her lines (The Elizabeth Taylor school of acting). Seriously watch her on the Doctor Who Buzzcocks episode, she's fucking baffled. Joe Wiley is disgusted by her complete ignorance about Doctor Who (For fucks sake Tate admits thats she didn't realise that his name wasn't who, after FREAKING SHOOTING A BLOODY SERIES OF WHO.)


Hang on - hold the phone.

Acting is what I *do* know about.  From a purely qualitative perspective, Tate not researching the series beyond her role is *exactly* what the very best actors should do (not that this is why she did it, necessarily).  Donna doesn't know anything about the doctor beyond what she experiences with him, therefore to play her more convincingly, more in line with Stanislavski's 'system' (or the Method, as it went on to be developed in the States), researching the series is not only unnecessary, it would be actively harmful.  As a fan you might be offended that she has never been into Who as a wider entity than the role she played - but there's bugger all reason why an actor *should*.

I love that Buzzcocks episode.  Yes, she's completely fucking clueless - though she plays up to it, and it's obv part of her offscreen personality...  I also suspect she's a bit pissed...  but Tennant (a massive Who geek) clearly adores her for it.  They went on to do Taming of the Shrew together in the west end.  It received rave reviews. I fully expect that Tate doesn't know a great deal about Shakespeare or the canon.  She didn't need to, though,  even if i think it's really interesting.  As an actor she needs to know one part really well.  That's all.

Donna is an extraordinary companion.  Far and away the best of new Who.  Mostly that's the scripts - but they were created for her, the plot arc written with her in mind after working with her on the runaway bride a year earlier.  Her delivery is...  full on.  Probably quite annoying, in some ways (appropriately to the character)...  but the emotional pitch varies throughout the series and the stuff at the end is nicely at contrast with the comic overstatement at the start.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 11, 2014)

Oh, and who cares what Jo Fucking Wiley thinks about anything.  Dreadful woman.


----------



## 8den (Sep 11, 2014)

I think it's quiet clear that Katherine Tate is many things but she is not a adherent to the Stanislavski system. and even if she was, Donna Noble isn't a idiot and spent the year between the runaway bride and the magic fat gnomes episodes actively looking for the Doctor so she should;

A) Know the actual name of the man she's running around time and space with.

B) what the name of the ship she's doing it in stands for.




and I like Jo Wiley in that Buzzcocks episode.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 11, 2014)

8den said:


> I think it's quiet clear that Katherine Tate is many things but she is not a adherent to the Stanislavski system. and even if she was, Donna Noble isn't a idiot and spent the year between the runaway bride and the magic fat gnomes episodes actively looking for the Doctor so she should;
> 
> A) Know the actual name of the man she's running around time and space with.
> 
> ...


What?   

I mention Stanislavski because that's essentially what ppl mean when they talk about good/bad acting.  The job if acting is to pretend, as believably as possible, that you know what the character knows - and no more.  

All Donna knows, from research, will be that his name is "the doctor".  Catherine Tate, beyond that, knows the show is called Doctor Who. It's by no means an unreasonable assumption.   If it had a question mark it wouldn't seem like a name, but it doesn't have one.  

Donna has been researching him by following mysteries, hoping to bump into him. She's not in UNIT, or one of the Doctor gang in Love and Monsters. How would she know what tardis stands for?


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 11, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> What?
> 
> I mention Stanislavski because that's essentially what ppl mean when they talk about good/bad acting.  The job if acting is to pretend, as believably as possible, that you know what the character knows - and no more.
> 
> ...


There is the whole episode in the library where River whispers his proper name. I guess Tate should remember that. Donna would have. She was probably playing the thicko for laughs. It was her living for a while after all.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 11, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> There is the whole episode in the library where River whispers his proper name. I guess Tate should remember that. Donna would have. She was probably playing the thicko for laughs. It was her living for a while after all.


River doesn't whisper it to Donna, does she?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 11, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> River doesn't whisper it to Donna, does she?


No but as a character she knows his name is not Mr 'Who' because it is never in the script. She calls him Doctor, you'd have to be a moron not to get that.


----------



## 8den (Sep 11, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> What?
> 
> I mention Stanislavski because that's essentially what ppl mean when they talk about good/bad acting.  The job if acting is to pretend, as believably as possible, that you know what the character knows - and no more.



I don't think people really care how a actor gets into character, just as long as they play the character convincingly. Look at Tennant and Capaldi both massive Who fans as children. 



> All Donna knows, from research, will be that his name is "the doctor".  Catherine Tate, beyond that, knows the show is called Doctor Who. It's by no means an unreasonable assumption.   If it had a question mark it wouldn't seem like a name, but it doesn't have one.



I cannot comphrend someone spending the best part of a year on set, and reading y'know  over a dozen scripts where his name appears next to your characters name and seeing the words "THE DOCTOR" and not say "Sorry I thought his name was Doctor Who, so why does it say "THE DOCTOR" next to all his lines"



> Donna has been researching him by following mysteries, hoping to bump into him. She's not in UNIT, or one of the Doctor gang in Love and Monsters. How would she know what tardis stands for?



Rory seems to know alot about the Tardis before he arrives. 

Anyway this is a digression. Lots of great actors have researched their characters throughly and given amazing performances. Lots of great actors have barely bothered to read the script and given great performances. I don't think Tate's performance was good, and found her delivery annoying. Her lack of interest in Doctor Who was just another thing about her that bothered me (couldn't resist) I think she squandered the best companion role of new who. She wasn't Adric or Melanie (shudder) or even Martha though.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 11, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> River doesn't whisper it to Donna, does she?


No, but there was a bit of"how did she know my name?" fussing.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 11, 2014)

8den said:


> I don't think people really care how a actor gets into character, just as long as they play the character convincingly. Look at Tennant and Capaldi both massive Who fans as children.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This down to you then? I jest but who votes in these fucking things?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 11, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> This down to you then? I jest but who votes in these fucking things?


Sun readers


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 11, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> This down to you then? I jest but who votes in these fucking things?


Captain Jack beats Sarah JKane?

I don't even recognise Britain anymore!


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 11, 2014)

Sign of the times. I imagine most people voting were only familiar with new Who. Old companions never beat any of the new ones and those old ones that have been in new who or mentioned in it or a spin off seem to have done slightly better. K9, the Brig but not Jo Grant.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 11, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> This down to you then? I jest but who votes in these fucking things?




Out of every single play off I can only agree with 8. Which is double shit because most would not have gotten past the first round.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 11, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> Sign of the times. I imagine most people voting were only familiar with new Who. Old companions never beat any of the new ones and those old ones that have been in new who or mentioned in it or a spin off seem to have done slightly better. K9, the Brig but not Jo Grant.


Jo Grant was shit anyway.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 11, 2014)

Adric should of beaten River simply because he stayed dead (well on screen at least).


----------



## 8115 (Sep 11, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Hang on - hold the phone.
> 
> Acting is what I *do* know about.  From a purely qualitative perspective, Tate not researching the series beyond her role is *exactly* what the very best actors should do (not that this is why she did it, necessarily).  Donna doesn't know anything about the doctor beyond what she experiences with him, therefore to play her more convincingly, more in line with Stanislavski's 'system' (or the Method, as it went on to be developed in the States), researching the series is not only unnecessary, it would be actively harmful.  As a fan you might be offended that she has never been into Who as a wider entity than the role she played - but there's bugger all reason why an actor *should*.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, she was shi**ed in the Buzzcocks. It was a little bit awkward. I'd forgotten than.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 12, 2014)

8den said:


> I think it's quiet clear that Katherine Tate is many things but she is not a adherent to the Stanislavski system. and even if she was, Donna Noble isn't a idiot and spent the year between the runaway bride and the magic fat gnomes episodes actively looking for the Doctor so she should;
> 
> A) Know the actual name of the man she's running around time and space with.
> 
> ...


but Catherine Tate is only required to learn her lines and deliver them in a way that makes the director and producers happy she's an actor doing her job


----------



## 8den (Sep 12, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> but Catherine Tate is only required to learn her lines and deliver them in a way that makes the director and producers happy she's an actor doing her job



I really don't know why I'm diving back in. The actor's job doesn't start and end on the day of being on set anymore. They're also the face and brand of the show. Months after shooting has wrapped and post has finished they'll need to go and promote the show. These day's they'll be expected to attend events like Comic Con etc during the shoot to talk up the show. They'll need to be engaging and enthusiastic in panels, tv, radio, and print interviews.



I'll just reiterate. My dislike of Tate started before she was cast in the runaway bride, continued throughout her tenure as a assistant, and her performance on Buzzcocks was just the icing on the cake. She's got one schtick and, her only way of delivering lines was 'Louder and more Sarcastic" or "Less loud and less sarcastic". I think she was served the best script of any new who companion and squandered it. 

What's annoying him about new who is Every Single Companion has been a girl from the modern age. And what annoys me even more is they're even described as girls. Karen Gillen is "the girl who waited" while Clara is "the impossible girl". 

I'm tired of companions who are A) girls & B) from this era. Give me Jamie, or even bloody Adric, the doctor is supposed to traverse space and time, why is he always picking female companions from early 21st century UK!

I think he has a fetish.


----------



## 8den (Sep 12, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> This down to you then? I jest but who votes in these fucking things?



That draw is so suspect I think Seb Blatter must have been involved. And a bunch of companions are missing.


----------



## Chz (Sep 12, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Out of every single play off I can only agree with 8. Which is double shit because most would not have gotten past the first round.


Four wasn't so bad, with the exception that River isn't really a companion. Never cared for Jamie. Though I do appreciate someone else's suggestion that Adric beats River just because he stayed dead. The lack of love for Romana v1.0 and Leela is horrific.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 12, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> it feels like a different show to the Smith/pond years.  That always felt like an over-funded CBBC programme.  This feels like proper quality family drama.


good description....thing is neither of those things are sci-fi. its not right.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 12, 2014)

sci fi takes many forms.


----------



## ska invita (Sep 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> sci fi takes many forms.


so i see... the family drama form isnt one i can stomach though


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 12, 2014)

8den said:


> I really don't know why I'm diving back in. The actor's job doesn't start and end on the day of being on set anymore. They're also the face and brand of the show. Months after shooting has wrapped and post has finished they'll need to go and promote the show. These day's they'll be expected to attend events like Comic Con etc during the shoot to talk up the show. They'll need to be engaging and enthusiastic in panels, tv, radio, and print interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


or the producers do  I get what you mean about New who companions, in my opinion Rory was the best companion but was not used to the best advantage at all. still it could have been worse at least none of them are Bonnie Langford,  that choice still gets me a bit frothy mouthed after all this time.


----------



## Chz (Sep 12, 2014)

Bonnie Langford's another one (along with Colin Baker) who did really well in the audio books. Whether it was maturity or just better writing, I couldn't tell you. The only one I can think of that wasn't very good either on TV or in the audio stories is Sarah Sutton. Though I hear she's quite lovely in person (Matt Waterhouse, too).


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 12, 2014)

its always peri or amy pond for me. 

Rory gets the lions share of quality gags in new who tho. more than the doc. The hitler episode ffs.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 12, 2014)

Donna was the best new Who companion for me, followed by Rory. In terms of their wider arc, next comes - shockingly - Martha. Despite her somewhat awkward acting ability and the unfortunately beginnings where she was his rebound companion who of course fell in love with him but couldn't have him because Rose, she matured into someone who was strong and amazing and a leader in her own right, even if her actor probably wasn't the best to handle a storyline like that. I liked Rose well enough, although I despise the way she got her own doctor at the end - wasn't it enough she got her dad back? But I otherwise liked her independence. In fact probably the two strongest in my eyes are Rose and Donna - working class women with otherwise not much of an exciting future ahead of them who end up being pretty darned marvellous. I like Martha for similar reasons except the working class bit - she was going to have a decent life anyway as a doctor, but her personal insecurities were overcome and she showed she could lead as good as anyone else. Really Amy and Clara have been the weakest for me, certainly Clara because she's pretty much a nothing, but even with Amy all she was was a pining girl with legs up to here and a crush on the doctor, or a wife, or a mother, and yet another problem for the doctor to solve. She lives in this big old house that apparently can be paid for by being a kissagram, and ends up (inexplicably) as a high street fashion model. Great arc, that.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 12, 2014)

8den said:


> I really don't know why I'm diving back in. The actor's job doesn't start and end on the day of being on set anymore. They're also the face and brand of the show. Months after shooting has wrapped and post has finished they'll need to go and promote the show. These day's they'll be expected to attend events like Comic Con etc during the shoot to talk up the show. They'll need to be engaging and enthusiastic in panels, tv, radio, and print interviews.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is interesting; the difference between Adric, by today's standards a massive geek, and the likes of Rose, sassy young woman giving as good as she gets. I think the difference sums up the difference in the periods concerned. Adric was a young genius whose talents were recognised by the doctor whle Rose is a gobby cow who got stick in a parallel universe with a sex toy clone of Dr 10.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 13, 2014)

Question: why does he keep looking at the camera in this series?


----------



## 8115 (Sep 13, 2014)

Episode 4 in short, "there's somethinng under the bed aghhhh"   It's a bit better than the last 3 piss poor offerings though.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 13, 2014)

They're not starting that timeline things again are they?  I'm not good at keeping track of the plot at the best of times.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2014)

It's a bit convoluted, no?

Love Capaldi though.  There's a lot of Malcolm Tucker in there.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 13, 2014)

Wait, the kid with the monster in his room was the teacher?


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2014)

This had better be good.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 13, 2014)

Ok, who's this kid?


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2014)

It would appear to be the young Doctor.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 13, 2014)

I thought so!


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2014)

Well, next week's episode looks like fun.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 13, 2014)

I thought that was an excellent episode.

Clara really has improved this series.

Capaldi is wonderful.

This was a rare example where I was okay with Clara being the plot (or part of the plot). It sat easier with me than her being responsible for him picking the tardis all those years ago.

The atmosphere in the episode was spot on.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2014)

well that didn't make a great deal of sense


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2014)

Jon Hurt tie in though so...something. I might have to watch it again to unpick things


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 13, 2014)

Didn't seem to make too much sense to me , but seeing John Hurt was good and PC was great


----------



## T & P (Sep 13, 2014)

Found it a bit shit and and rather boring tbh.


----------



## prunus (Sep 13, 2014)

So what was the thing under the young rupert's bedspread?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 13, 2014)

"Set up, set up, set up, set up... bugger, has anyone seen the payoff?"


----------



## Santino (Sep 13, 2014)

prunus said:


> So what was the thing under the young rupert's bedspread?


Seconded.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2014)

thats why it'd didn't make any sense. There was a brief over the shoulder glimpse that looked potato headed, later when the doc woke up he said 'sontarans intefering with the time stream'

but it doesn't tie together


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 13, 2014)

I suppose the point is, there was nothing under the Doctor's bed, but that doesn't mean there wasn't something under Pink Jnr's bed. Mebbe


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2014)

Amazing how they made a blanket so scary, great moment...my kids were genuinely screeching aloud at that point!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 13, 2014)

prunus said:


> So what was the thing under the young rupert's bedspread?


That was his giant erection at the sight of a young woman in a sexy black dress suddenly appearing in his room!

Seriously, it's a kid's home; just walk right in and start talking to a young kid you'venever seen before.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 13, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> thats why it'd didn't make any sense. There was a brief over the shoulder glimpse that looked potato headed, later when the doc woke up he said 'sontarans intefering with the time stream'
> 
> but it doesn't tie together


I'm sure it will at the end of the series when Moffat pulls something clever out of his bag of magic.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 13, 2014)

Questions.

1. So that was Gallifrey then? Clara just manages to find Galifrey on the Tardis telepathic satnav and, despite all the shennanigans about it being timelocked, she gets there.
2. Why did she say 'River?', did she think the kid in the bed was River Song? Why?
3. Timey wimey.
4. See above.

It's just all show and no go without Moffat, but I don't think I have the energy anymore to feel disappointed.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 13, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> Amazing how they made a blanket so scary, great moment...my kids were genuinely screeching aloud at that point!


Then they shoudln't meet these chaps!


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 13, 2014)

Well that was great, some nice word-play and lots of kids will have a sleepless night


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 13, 2014)

I enjoyed it very much.  Another great episode.

(Could have been cut a bit towards the end, but we're quibbling).


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 14, 2014)

prunus said:


> So what was the thing under the young rupert's bedspread?





Lord Camomile said:


> I suppose the point is, there was nothing under the Doctor's bed, but that doesn't mean there wasn't something under Pink Jnr's bed. Mebbe



That's what I thought too...



Awesome Wells said:


> Seriously, it's a kid's home; just walk right in and start talking to a young kid you'venever seen before.



It was the 90s, given recent news stories it was sadly all too believable.  Did you notice how seedy the warden was?

I thought that was great, very atmospheric and beautifully shot and was even better for being the low-budget talkie episode with no on-screen monster.  Reminded me of the Tennant episode Midnight a lot.  The best Moffat-written episode since Blink?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Questions.
> 
> 1. So that was Gallifrey then? Clara just manages to find Galifrey on the Tardis telepathic satnav and, despite all the shennanigans about it being timelocked, she gets there.
> 2. *Why did she say 'River?', did she think the kid in the bed was River Song? Why?*
> ...



Did she say River? I thought she said Rupert, followed by Orson. And then she realised it was the doctor.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 14, 2014)

Was he Orson because of all the wells?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 14, 2014)

First time he was introduced I thought his name was Awesome Pink


----------



## Epona (Sep 14, 2014)

Fuck it, I loved that episode.
The rest of you who didn't can sod off.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 14, 2014)

But nothing is resolved, it just becomes yet another vehicle for this impossible girl stuff. Do we need to have anymore of this?

Why was the doctor going mental about invisble monsters in the first place - aboard a Tardis that, when it works, can change into anything to suit its surroundings, and after encountering beings that can make you forget they are there when you aren't looking at them. It's the same tired Moffat tropes.

Why is he now being written to be, not dark, but just obnoxious; he constantly belittles Clara. It's like an abusive relationship. hey, I break into kids homes now - kids homes that are deliberately protrayed to be scary and foreboding - and in the middle the night on a windswpt moor. 

Why was there no explanation of that entity on the bed? Do we get an explanation in the end? Will I give a shit?

Speaking of Clara, why is she such a cow? She bullies Danny, another MOffat Milquetoast male character, into a date and then proceeds to take the piss out of his being a soldier. We've already been treated to see him cry in front of the class, obviously his past bothers him, yet when he objects to her attitude she gets stroppy and storms out - twice! Why are all the new female companions (I would exempt Martha from this) such mardy mares?

Is Danny going to be Rory mark 2? Henpecked male who turns out to be a hero? 

What was all that shit in the time travel machine? What was outside? Why should we care when Moffat doesn't?

How does the Tardis get to Gallifrey? 

All so we can have a little scene with Clara under the bed grabbing the doctor's ankles which, 2000 yeras later, prompts him to go mental and start worrying about creatures that have qualities he has already encountered in creatures before?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 14, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Did she say River? I thought she said Rupert, followed by Orson. And then she realised it was the doctor.


I suppose it must have been rupert, but it sounded like river to me.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> That was his giant erection at the sight of a young woman in a sexy black dress suddenly appearing in his room!
> 
> Seriously, it's a kid's home; just walk right in and start talking to a young kid you'venever seen before.



Because kids homes are bastions of responsibility and professional care.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 14, 2014)

Artaxerxes said:


> Because kids homes are bastions of responsibility and professional care.



Not if any old tom dick and clara can just clamber over the fence and gain access to a child's bedroom!

But it's ok becuase we know Clara isn't Myra Hindley and isn't going to murder little Rupert.

Who, fortunately, doesn't remember the night that the woman he is sat opposite appeared in his bedroom, along with her weird old friend. The night the ghost appeared.

That's all well and good, but Moffat presumes so much in his quest toward the clever-clever ending. Why would it even matter if the Junior Doctor had got out of bed? Why would that end the universe? He wouldn't know that blue box was a Tardis, nor would he necessarily see the hot girl under his bed.


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 14, 2014)

Here's a slightly older photo of what that boy would have looked like if we'd seen his face.


----------



## Sprocket. (Sep 14, 2014)

We thought this was the best episode of the new series so far. 
We hope to continue enjoying the rest of the series by not overthinking and over complicating escapist fantasy television programmes


----------



## Pingu (Sep 14, 2014)

one nephew looking under his bed before going to sleep - check

job jobbed


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Not if any old tom dick and clara can just clamber over the fence and gain access to a child's bedroom!
> 
> But it's ok becuase we know Clara isn't Myra Hindley and isn't going to murder little Rupert.
> 
> ...


The whole meeting yourself can be cataclysmic schtick. He may not remember anyway but Clara probably didn't want to take the chance.


----------



## kittyP (Sep 14, 2014)

Pingu said:


> one nephew looking under his bed before going to sleep - check
> 
> job jobbed



I said to Badgers "I wonder how many kids (or adults) will be checking under their beds or having nightmares tonight?".
That's a proper Dr Who episode if it does that 

I really enjoyed that one


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 14, 2014)

What are they going to be checking for, Clara Oswald? Feel like any tension or fear built up was kinda undermined by it being Clara under the bed and the Doctor's obsession seemingly being born out of Clara messing around in his timeline (again - that she is seemingly so influential in the Doctor's life is somewhat infuriating).

Ok, there was the thing under the blanket, but that seemingly got forgotten by the end of the episode...


----------



## kittyP (Sep 14, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> What are they going to be checking for, Clara Oswald? Feel like any tension or fear built up was kinda undermined by it being Clara under the bed and the Doctor's obsession seemingly being born out of Clara messing around in his timeline (again - that she is seemingly so influential in the Doctor's life is somewhat infuriating).
> 
> Ok, there was the thing under the blanket, but that seemingly got forgotten by the end of the episode...



We are hiding from our selves, our past, our future. That's what I thought. 

But yeah, the thing under the blanket, maybe it was just supposed to be nothing but a product of our imagination. 
The need for there to be actually something to be afraid of.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 14, 2014)

kittyP said:


> We are hiding from our selves, our past, our future. That's what I thought..


Pfah, metaphysical timey-wimey mumbojumbo. I want something that will eat your eyeballs!


----------



## kittyP (Sep 14, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Pfah, metaphysical timey-wimey mumbojumbo. I want something that will eat your eyeballs!



Not so much that but Clara said to the young Dr, "It's OK to be scared even if there is nothing really there". OR something to that effect.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 14, 2014)

Another shit episode.
Should be called 'Timeline, with Clara... and some bloke'


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 14, 2014)

Don't be scared even though I, the strange voice inexplicably under your bed, have you be the ankles.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 14, 2014)

kittyP said:


> I said to Badgers "I wonder how many kids (or adults) will be checking under their beds or having nightmares tonight?".
> That's a proper Dr Who episode if it does that
> 
> I really enjoyed that one


I checked


----------



## kittyP (Sep 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Don't be scared even though I, the strange voice inexplicably under your bed, have you be the ankles.


 yes!


----------



## 8den (Sep 14, 2014)

Could we please just not have a companion who's the most important person in the universe. Just for a fucking change.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 14, 2014)

The only thing under my bed is the cyborg jazz-spider that eats my dreams; Derek.


----------



## belboid (Sep 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I suppose it must have been rupert, but it sounded like river to me.


Aye, but everything you've written on this thread shows that you're cloth-eared. 

A fine episode, well scripted and played, proper tense and high on spook factor. It even pretty much made sense.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Don't be scared even though I, the strange voice inexplicably under your bed, have you be the ankles.



"Don't be scared... is... is that rain...?"
"eep"


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 14, 2014)

belboid said:


> Aye, but everything you've written on this thread shows that you're cloth-eared.
> 
> A fine episode, well scripted and played, proper tense and high on spook factor. It even pretty much made sense.



If only there was some sort of story to go with it. 

It was moffat lazily reworking the same schtick from 'blink' and 'silence in the library' and then throwing in some sentimental introspective guff about the doctor's past - again. Fuck that -   just give us  a quality baddie who the doctor defeats in a clever way via a rattling good yarn.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 15, 2014)

that was a good thoughtful episode,with some lovely flashes of comedy but will have to give it a rewatch when I don't have a hideous cold,  as for moffat's lazy reworking of old plots I'm not sure it's laziness at all, it might just be the cold talking but it seems a bit too unsubtle , I can't pin down why I think that  but it seems unlikely that different writers would have such obvious similarities with previous plotlines in their scripts without somebody noticing it which sort of makes me think it might be deliberate. I have no idea of why it's just that the previous post reminded me that I thought that while watching the episode


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Sep 15, 2014)

kittyP said:


> We are hiding from our selves, our past, our future. That's what I thought.
> 
> But yeah, the thing under the blanket, maybe it was just supposed to be nothing but a product of our imagination.
> The need for there to be actually something to be afraid of.



Would the doc stand there looking at the lump in the bed and then just turn away ? 
Wouldn't the doc of old pull the blanket off and face the supposed fear face on?
Dunno....I didn't rate it. Probably because of the stupid "fear is good" shite and " turn your back on fear and pretend it's not there".

Also it's turning into a series that may as well be called Clara and the Doc. Imo.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Sep 15, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Also it's turning into a series that may as well be called Clara and the Doc. Imo.



New Who has always been Companion X and the Doc, its annoying but its probably not going to change any time soon.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 15, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> I can't pin down why I think that  but it seems unlikely that different writers would have such obvious similarities with previous plotlines in their scripts without somebody noticing it which sort of makes me think it might be deliberate.



Its the same writer - moffort wrote _blink_ and _silence in the library._


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 15, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> Its the same writer - moffort wrote _blink_ and _silence in the library._


I kind of get the Blink comparisons but Silence in the Library?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 15, 2014)

the silent, unseen terror waiting in the dark.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 15, 2014)

Oh yeah thems. I did think of them near the beginning. All the talk of shadows.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> I kind of get the Blink comparisons but Silence in the Library?



The _vashta nerada_.
I was pretty much "doh, I thought this was going to be about the _vashta nerada_ about 5 minutes in. Somewhat disappointed.


----------



## fogbat (Sep 15, 2014)

Just re-watched the first episode of the series. At one point the Doctor checks underneath the bed he's been left in, then finds a stick of chalk like he used in Saturday's episode.


----------



## gosub (Sep 15, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> That was his giant erection at the sight of a young woman in a sexy black dress suddenly appearing in his room!
> 
> Seriously, it's a kid's home; just walk right in and start talking to a young kid you'venever seen before.


Seemed to work for Jimmy Saville


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 15, 2014)

fogbat said:


> Just re-watched the first episode of the series. At one point the Doctor checks underneath the bed he's been left in, then finds a stick of chalk like he used in Saturday's episode.


That was rather cunning of Moffat... to watch an early episode and draw references from it. He's a clever boy


----------



## fucthest8 (Sep 15, 2014)

Anyone else finding that at least once per episode, Peter Capaldi pulls a face that is genuinely fucking scary? In a proper, drunk Glaswegian getting in your face, hissing, "Ahm gonnae fuck ye up sonny" kind of scary?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 15, 2014)

fucthest8 said:


> Anyone else finding that at least once per episode, Peter Capaldi pulls a face that is genuinely fucking scary? In a proper, drunk Glaswegian getting in your face, hissing, "Ahm gonnae fuck ye up sonny" kind of scary?


I reckon he's the Antichist... spawn of Satan.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Sep 15, 2014)

fucthest8 said:


> Anyone else finding that at least once per episode, Peter Capaldi pulls a face that is genuinely fucking scary? In a proper, drunk Glaswegian getting in your face, hissing, "Ahm gonnae fuck ye up sonny" kind of scary?




Like this?


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Sep 15, 2014)

He's a lot scarier than the bulging blanket....


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 15, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> Its the same writer - moffort wrote _blink_ and _silence in the library._


sorry should have made clear I was talking about all four episodes not just listen, and again I would like to clarify its a vague idea possibility influenced by the high temperature and heavy duty painkillers


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 15, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> It was moffat lazily reworking the same schtick from 'blink' and 'silence in the library' and then throwing in some sentimental introspective guff about the doctor's past - again. Fuck that -   just give us  a quality baddie who the doctor defeats in a clever way via a rattling good yarn.



On the contrary I think not trying to wrap everything up neatly is new territory for Moffat and it worked very well.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> thats why it'd didn't make any sense. There was a brief over the shoulder glimpse that looked potato headed, later when the doc woke up he said 'sontarans intefering with the time stream'
> 
> but it doesn't tie together



"Sontarans perverting the course of human history" was the first thing Tom Baker's doctor ever said, whilst in a simillar state of delirium.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 15, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> "Sontarans perverting the course of human history" was the first thing Tom Baker's doctor ever said, whilst in a simillar state of delirium.


There's no new material any more


----------



## Mab (Sep 16, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> no, I generally stay spoiler free and I'm looking forward to the new series and Peter Capaldi, who is already one of my favourite doctors because he signed my tardis postcard


One of my fav's too. I remember the first time that I saw Peter Capapdi on tv--Prime Suspect where he played the role of a transsexual named Vera and he was amazing. ( I remember Ralph Finnes on it also; apparently his first tv role).


----------



## strung out (Sep 16, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Questions.
> 
> 1. So that was Gallifrey then? Clara just manages to find Galifrey on the Tardis telepathic satnav and, despite all the shennanigans about it being timelocked, she gets there.
> 2. Why did she say 'River?', did she think the kid in the bed was River Song? Why?
> ...


Fuck you're stupid.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 16, 2014)

I think the fact nobody said "timey wimey" was the best bit of the episode.


----------



## magneze (Sep 16, 2014)

What does "timey wimey" mean?


----------



## Chz (Sep 16, 2014)

It was RTD's way of saying "I'm not going to bother explaining this shit".


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 16, 2014)

Chz said:


> It was RTD's way of saying "I'm not going to bother explaining this shit".


Twas Blink written by Moffat where it was first used I think. It kind of made sense. Then it became a fucking catchphrase.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 16, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> "Sontarans perverting the course of human history" was the first thing Tom Baker's doctor ever said, whilst in a simillar state of delirium.



Yeah, I just kind of assumed it's the sort of thing you say when you're coming out of a deep sleep - like sitting bolt upright in bed shouting "BUT THERE WAS JAM ON MY BIKE!!!" Stuff that makes no sense, and isn't necessarily pertinent to anything at all.


----------



## Epona (Sep 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> But nothing is resolved, it just becomes yet another vehicle for this impossible girl stuff. Do we need to have anymore of this?
> 
> Why was the doctor going mental about invisble monsters in the first place - aboard a Tardis that, when it works, can change into anything to suit its surroundings, and after encountering beings that can make you forget they are there when you aren't looking at them. It's the same tired Moffat tropes.
> 
> ...



Although I find some agreement with a couple of sentences in there (although more from the point of if Clara and the guy in the episode did not get along, why did either of them persist with the date?  It was like it was channeling some really bad trash romance novel for a while there), I disagree with your main argument - which sort of becomes clear as you read through "...impossible girl stuff, do we need any more of this?";  "...why is she such a cow"; "Henpecked male".

Would you prefer to return to a time when the Doctor's female companions either screamed a lot and needed constant rescuing or wore leather bikinis for your viewing pleasure, and in either case were just there as a medium for explaining the plot to the audience?  Because I wouldn't.  I really like Clara.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 18, 2014)

Clara in a leather bikini....you put it in my mind!


----------



## Epona (Sep 18, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> Clara in a leather bikini....you put it in my mind!



This pretty much sums up my problem with life.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 18, 2014)

She is a cow because of how she treated Danny. She harangued him for a date and then, during that date cracked an obviously insensitive joke about his past as a soldier and then, when he reacts - and not disproportionately - she accuses him of bad behaviour and storms out. She's awful. An utterly unlikeable stuck up little mare.

As it happens I'm watching the Leela episodes right now. I am up to Fang Rock. The only time she has been dressed skimpily is in the Face of Evil, where she is introduced. Her outfit is less skimpy than the men of the tribe she comes from and is not a bikini. I don't think much of Leela as a companion, the acting is crap and the actress too self conscious, but she is certainly not, thus far, a 'screamer'. 

If you have interpreted that I want the writers to resort to some misogynistic straw man you've constructed from my comment then you wer way off. I simply want a companion that is not a horrible person and a ridiculous cosmic plot device.


----------



## Epona (Sep 18, 2014)

cow... mare.... yep, not seeing the use of any sexist language there, carry on as you are.


----------



## belboid (Sep 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> She is a cow because of how she treated Danny. She harangued him for a date and then, during that date cracked an obviously insensitive joke about his past as a soldier and then, when he reacts - and not disproportionately - she accuses him of bad behaviour and storms out. She's awful. An utterly unlikeable stuck up little mare.


two nervous people on a date both 'mis-speaking' and accidentally finding ways to wind each other up, I suppose that has never happened to you.  And a woman daring to have an opinion!  How very shocking.

Clara's a great character, much better in this series than the last one.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 18, 2014)

Epona said:


> cow... mare.... yep, not seeing the use of any sexist language there, carry on as you are.


Tell you what, send me your list of approved words and I'll edit my post.


----------



## Epona (Sep 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Tell you what, send me your list of approved words and I'll edit my post.



All I see is someone who I feel quite sorry for, on account of their social ineptitude.  Anyone in this day and age who needs me to send them a list of words that are deemed as derogatory to women obviously either spends way too much alone or is deliberately trying to troll.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 18, 2014)

Epona said:


> All I see is someone who I feel quite sorry for, on account of their social ineptitude.  Anyone in this day and age who needs me to send them a list of words that are deemed as derogatory to women obviously either spends way too much alone or is deliberately trying to troll.


How bloody patronising.


----------



## Chz (Sep 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> As it happens I'm watching the Leela episodes right now. I am up to Fang Rock. The only time she has been dressed skimpily is in the Face of Evil, where she is introduced. Her outfit is less skimpy than the men of the tribe she comes from and is not a bikini. I don't think much of Leela as a companion, the acting is crap and the actress too self conscious, but she is certainly not, thus far, a 'screamer'.


She actually gets better from Fang Rock onwards. The actress had enough of Tom Baker's shit by then and started to stand up to him.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 18, 2014)

Chz said:


> She actually gets better from Fang Rock onwards. The actress had enough of Tom Baker's shit by then and started to stand up to him.


I think the main problem (thus far) is that she requires an actress whose comfortable playing the warrior woman and I don't think Louise Jameson was. She doesn't seem comfortable or sound confident, but if that's due to being overshadowed by the Baker then we will see.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 18, 2014)

I'm very much NOT a fan of the companion since Amy having to be the plot, the whole plot, and nothing but the plot - as I've stated in this thread and previous ones numerous times. 

I disliked 80% of Amy's storylines, and I disliked all of Clara's stuff in the last series. This series though, we've seen a marked improvement in her as a character. While I could have done without her being inserted into the Who timeline and mythos right at the end of the last episode, it didn't bother me as much as previous examples, and overall I really enjoyed the episode.

Moffat evidently has a problem with the way he imagines women, and certainly does have a thing about men being dominated and made weak by strong, mouthy women (and has said in an interview that this is what he thinks all male/female relationships are). That being said, I didn't take the dinner scene with Clara and Danny to be particularly exemplative of that, and even if it was I'd be focusing my ire at Moffat's sexism rather than calling Clara a cow.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 18, 2014)

belboid said:


> two nervous people on a date both 'mis-speaking' and accidentally finding ways to wind each other up, I suppose that has never happened to you.  And a woman daring to have an opinion!  How very shocking.
> 
> Clara's a great character, much better in this series than the last one.



I think the acting and the writing of her character have improved since last season. She's not just clever enough to make wise cracks, she's clever enough to figure out complicated stuff, sometimes stuff the Doctor can't even fathom. Amy basically just did wisecracks and getting into trouble.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Tell you what, send me your list of approved words and I'll edit my post.



The trick is to put yourself in someone else's position and think, would I find that offensive? If something implied, or was derived from the notion of, the inherent inferiority of your sex then you probably would, wouldn't you?


----------



## Santino (Sep 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> How bloody patronising.


Patronising is when you talk down to someone.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 18, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> The trick is to put yourself in someone else's position and think, would I find that offensive? If something implied, or was derived from the notion of, the inherent inferiority of your sex then you probably would, wouldn't you?


I didn't call the character a cow to pay her a complement and being ambushed by someone on a mission is rather offensive. Never mind assuming that, secretly, what I'm really saying is that all women are inferior, not a critique about the last Dr Who epside.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 18, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I disliked 80% of Amy's storylines, and I disliked all of Clara's stuff in the last series. This series though, we've seen a marked improvement in her as a character. While I could have done without her being inserted into the Who timeline and mythos right at the end of the last episode, it didn't bother me as much as previous examples, and overall I really enjoyed the episode.



Thankfully they seem to be conveniently ignoring the whole 'impossible girl' storyline this time around. The alternative would be to have another Clara rocking up every time the Doctor gets in trouble and saving him from a particularly hammy Richard E Grant, which would be stupid.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I didn't call the character a cow to pay her a complement and being ambushed by someone on a mission is rather offensive. Never mind assuming that, secretly, what I'm really saying is that all women are inferior, not a critique about the last Dr Who epside.



It's not what I assume that's important, it's the assumptions these sorts of insults are based on that are the problem. If you don't intend to belittle women, better to avoid using words which have been used for a long time to do exactly that.


----------



## Santino (Sep 18, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Thankfully they seem to be conveniently ignoring the whole 'impossible girl' storyline this time around. The alternative would be to have another Clara rocking up every time the Doctor gets in trouble and saving him from a particularly hammy Richard E Grant, which would be stupid.


She was only inserted into the Doctor's timeline up to the point that he was killed in a future that didn't happen at Trenzalore. So she shouldn't turn up in anything that happens after (according to the Doctor's subjective chronology) the point at which he would have died had he died at Trenzalore, which he didn't.

What should happen is that Clara is digitally inserted into all previous series.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 18, 2014)

She was, albeit verrrrry briefly.


----------



## belboid (Sep 18, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I didn't call the character a cow to pay her a complement and being ambushed by someone on a mission is rather offensive. Never mind assuming that, secretly, what I'm really saying is that all women are inferior, not a critique about the last Dr Who epside.


it wasn't a critique of an episode tho, it was you giving your opinion of what a well behaved woman should be like.  It reflected some rather unpleasant sexist attitudes, and your deliberate ignorance over use of language just reinforces those attitudes.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 20, 2014)

I reckon James McAvoy would have made a good Doctor... He even looks and sounds similar 







(probably be stretching the budget a bit, though)


----------



## Quartz (Sep 20, 2014)

That was interesting.


----------



## 8den (Sep 20, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> I reckon James McAvoy would have made a good Doctor... He even looks and sounds similar
> 
> 
> 
> ...



See the "what if who weren't idiots and hired Carey Mulligan as the new assistant". Iguana rewatched Blink a year after it was aired first and was really annoyed going "why oh why did they not hire her afterwards I mean what's she done since then?" I had to point out she was nominated for a Oscar.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 20, 2014)

I liked that, a good hustle hiesty vibe plus actual use of time travel rather than parking it somewhere then only using it when the day has been saved.


----------



## Belushi (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm really enjoying Capaldi as the Doctor.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 20, 2014)

Quartz said:


> That was interesting.


It was merely an observation... I don't think Peter is the right man for the job. The Doctor has always worked best as a young, spritely Doctor (IMHO)

Edit... Oh... you were referencing the latest episode... my bad.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 20, 2014)

Moffat is as Moffat does


----------



## 8den (Sep 20, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> It was merely an observation... I don't think Peter is the right man for the job. The Doctor has always worked best as a young, spritely Doctor (IMHO)



You are so terribly wrong.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 20, 2014)

8den said:


> You are so terribly wrong.


Yes... but I'm right


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 20, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> The Doctor has always worked best as a young, spritely Doctor (IMHO)



The ghost of Jon Pertwee chops you in two, via the medium of Venusian Aikido


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 20, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The ghost of Jon Pertwee chops you in two, via the medium of Venusian Aikido


Ah but Jon Pertwee was a spritely Doctor. He was (relatively) only a few years younger than Capaldi but he seemed at least a generation younger.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 20, 2014)

Was the woman introduced as 'wirran human'?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 20, 2014)

Some quality scary faces by Capaldi tonight!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 20, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Was the woman introduced as 'wirran human'?


"Mutant Human"


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Sep 20, 2014)

Gary Oldman would have been great....


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 20, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The ghost of Jon Pertwee chops you in two, via the medium of Venusian Aikido



Ha, I guess you are right. Pertwee was my first Doctor, and he seemed like a great-great-grandad to me at the time. Capaldi seems like an older, more raggedy, brother in comparison.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 20, 2014)

dp


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 20, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Ha, I guess you are right. Pertwee was my first Doctor, and he seemed like a great-great-grandad to me at the time. Capaldi seems like an older, more raggedy, brother in comparison.


Yeah... but you're (probably) 40 years older


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 20, 2014)

Good monster this week. Good story too. Keeley Hawes was clearly enjoying herself.


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 20, 2014)

Well that was a good "Saw" episode.


----------



## T & P (Sep 20, 2014)

Best episode of the series so far IMO.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 20, 2014)

I liked that a great deal. I think Capaldi is just the bees knees. Loved the little thing about him looking like a magician. It felt a bit more Tennanty in some ways... I mean the whole thing being about saving a species. One of the themes for ten was that he just bloody cared so bloody much, he was a big old bleeding heart(s). I didn't especially get the sense that eleven cared a great deal (I go back to one of my pet hate episodes, the one with Diana Rigg... that little alien thing at the end, ten would have flown it to its homeworld). I don't think the doctor _has_ to care, necessarily, but I like it when he does. I like the tension between caring and knowing that some things can't be resolved, and him looking like he's a bit of a bastard for not doing anything, but only when it's accompanied by him knowing he's looking like a bit of a bastard and there's some kind of, well, yeah, tension to it all. Unless he's written specifically to be a bastard, in which case that's just another facet of his personality. But eleven wasn't written to be a bastard, and there was never really that tension that ten had sometimes. 

Anyway, waffling... I liked this episode.

I'm noticing a trend of women baddies on the show all being styled in the same way. I can't lay this squarely on the shoulders of the all evil Moffat either, it was there during RTD's reign as well. Are we that pathetic as an audience that we can't be expected to understand or read a villain unless she has a sharp, schoolma'amly and/or dominatrix vibe going on? Hair usually up, or pinned in some way, often glasses, sharp makeup, businesslike suit... It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens suspiciously often.


----------



## 8den (Sep 20, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Yes... but I'm right



Fuck off. The hierarchy is thus. 

It's

Baker
Perwtree
Eccleston
Tenant
McCoy
Smith
Davison
Troughton
Hartnell
McCann
Cushing
Grant
Lumley
Broadbent
Atkinson
Grant
Gatiss

& Crap Baker

In that order.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 20, 2014)

8den said:


> & Crap Baker





Glad to see Ecclescakes getting some love in that list. He's so often overlooked. That first reboot episode was some dire fucking shit, just absolute dross, but from that point on he was brill.


----------



## 8den (Sep 20, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Glad to see Ecclescakes getting some love in that list. He's so often overlooked. That first reboot episode was some dire fucking shit, just absolute dross, but from that point on he was brill.



I have worked with much of the crew of new who Ecclescakes just hated the twee bullshit farting aliens crapology and "well I'm a Doctor" he hated much of the bullshit RTD fosted on us hence the heave how. The Doctor Dances with "Everyone lives just this once everyone lives" and his abject hatred of the Daleks. Plus this



Thats my fucking Doctor.

"I WILL TALK TO THE DOCTOR"

"Oh will you? Thats nice. Hello"

Its the perfect Doctor Who moment for me. The Doctor terrifying Daleks because they know they have him out gunned, but he simply doesnt give a shit, is smarter than them, and hates them with the fury of a thousand suns, and the most terrifying species in the universe are bricking it.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 21, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> I reckon James McAvoy would have made a good Doctor... He even looks and sounds similar
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well capaldi is the doctor now and he's very good in that role, even my mum thinks he's good in it and she just doesn't see the point of sci-fi. there will be a new doctor in a few years or so until then get over it because this sort of stuff is just a bit silly.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 21, 2014)

T & P said:


> Best episode of the series so far IMO.



Yep, I reckon so. From the trailer I was expecting a half-arsed genre pastiche like DW does from time to time, but this was a proper story with a point to it.


----------



## Quartz (Sep 21, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm noticing a trend of women baddies on the show all being styled in the same way.



It also applies to major female protagonists. E.g. Queen Elizabeth I in the Christmas special and Queen Victoria in Tennant's day. But given that Doctor Who's primary intended audience is rather younger than we are, is this a bad thing? Characterisation has to be strong and simple, and if there's a subtext for the older viewer, that's a bonus.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 21, 2014)

Quartz said:


> It also applies to major female protagonists. E.g. Queen Elizabeth I in the Christmas special and Queen Victoria in Tennant's day. But given that Doctor Who's primary intended audience is rather younger than we are, is this a bad thing? Characterisation has to be strong and simple, and if there's a subtext for the older viewer, that's a bonus.



I don't think there's a problem with tropes and types and strong characterisations and caricatures per se -- but I do think it's worth thinking about the ones we use and why.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 21, 2014)

I don't really have a problem with Capaldi, anything is an improvement on Matt Smith. But i don't really like that he's being written as Smith's curmudgeonly creepy grandad.


----------



## magneze (Sep 21, 2014)

Great episode. One of the best from top to bottom.


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 21, 2014)

A disparate group of strangers wake up in a strange room with no recollection of how they got there and no knowledge of who the other people are. They are greeted by a recording of a distorted voice who gives them an objective if they want to escape alive. Danger is imminent so they have to start now or die. They make their way through a maze of traps and puzzles. Some of them die. Only some of the group get to the end where the truth is revealed in quick flashbacks set to distinctive music. The person who put them there is revealed. He is wearing a hood.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 21, 2014)

Helen Back said:


> Some of them die. Only some of the group get to the end where the truth is revealed .



errr... who died?


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 21, 2014)

Ok, so no-one actually died but they appeared to die. Same difference. Did anyone (who hadn't already read the script) really think they did die when they teleported?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 21, 2014)

Helen Back said:


> A disparate group of strangers wake up in a strange room with no recollection of how they got there and no knowledge of who the other people are. They are greeted by a recording of a distorted voice who gives them an objective if they want to escape alive. Danger is imminent so they have to start now or die. They make their way through a maze of traps and puzzles. Some of them die. Only some of the group get to the end where the truth is revealed in quick flashbacks set to distinctive music. The person who put them there is revealed. He is wearing a hood.


Sounds like an 80's text adventure game introduction!

>pick up the sword


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 21, 2014)

"You cannot go up the sword."


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 21, 2014)

I didn't like that one as much.  It was OK.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 21, 2014)

My favourite episode so far. Predictable but the plot was interesting, the monster was great and it finally feels like Capaldi has gotten comfy in his shoes as the Dr. A billion times better than last weeks tripe.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 21, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Sounds like an 80's text adventure game introduction!
> 
> >pick up the sword



I wrote one of those for the ZX Spectrum


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 21, 2014)

Helen Back said:


> "You cannot go up the sword."



>lift sword


----------



## T & P (Sep 21, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> My favourite episode so far. Predictable but the plot was interesting, *the monster was great* and it finally feels like Capaldi has gotten comfy in his shoes as the Dr. A billion times better than last weeks tripe.


The monster was very well accomplished and wouldn't be out of place in a big budget Guillermo del Toro film.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 21, 2014)

T & P said:


> The monster was very well accomplished and wouldn't be out of place in a big budget Guillermo del Toro film.


Aye! Instantly one of my favourite Who baddies. When the guys head caves in...  I'd love to be able to do that to folk. ''Ask me for I.D to buy the Lotto will you? I don't think so.''


----------



## prunus (Sep 21, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> >lift sword



"I cannot see the lift here"


----------



## T & P (Sep 21, 2014)

That head reminded me of this mugshot from America that can be regularly spotted on teh internets


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 21, 2014)

T & P said:


> That head reminded me of this mugshot from America that can be regularly spotted on teh internets


To be honest, it was so similar I thought it was some sort of weird reference, or at very lease they'd seen it and been... inspired 

(Or they found someone else with the same condition, but that's got to be fairly slim odds...  )


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 21, 2014)

Hmmm.  I don't think I liked that one.  Maybe I need to watch it again.  I liked the monster design, and the rescue mission but the story didn't really grab me.  Why didn't the biggest bank in the universe have cctv EVERYWHERE?  Why make a big deal about DNA locks and then only use them once?  And what was with the crappy JJ Abrams-style lens flaring in every shot?  I thought there was going to be an interesting thing about the clones of the big boss getting uppity and rebelling (shades of Duncan Idaho and Leto the God Emperor?) but that didn't go anywhere. Most of all, a caper story is supposed to be fun.  Oh well.  Not sure about the trailer for next week either.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 21, 2014)

along with lense flare they used a ton of visual cliches suited more to action/heist/crime films and it works

Bringing the monster out in slow mo, led in chains and orange jumpsuited- classic prison film visual cliche for introducing a Truly Hard Character


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 21, 2014)

One of the best of the series so far. Def better than the bollocks from last week. Capaldi is fucking ace.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 21, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> along with lense flare they used a ton of visual cliches suited more to action/heist/crime films and it works
> 
> Bringing the monster out in slow mo, led in chains and orange jumpsuited- classic prison film visual cliche for introducing a Truly Hard Character


OK, I don't usually watch caper-type films so missed all that.  Didn't recognise the guest star either.  I'll rewatch and reassess.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 22, 2014)

I thought that head caving in bit was really fucking grim for a kids show.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 22, 2014)

PursuedByBears said:


> OK, I don't usually watch caper-type films so missed all that.  *Didn't recognise the guest star either.*  I'll rewatch and reassess.



I reckon it's the sign of a guest star used well when some people come away not having recognised them. 

(Or did you just mean you don't know who she is?)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 22, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I don't really have a problem with Capaldi, anything is an improvement on Matt Smith. But i don't really like that he's being written as Smith's curmudgeonly creepy grandad.



They're trying a bit hard to point out that he no longer fancies Clara.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 22, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> They're trying a bit hard to point out that he no longer fancies Clara.



Actually I agree. It only needed to be mentioned the once. Or maybe not even mentioned, you know, show don't tell. But Moffat's way is to hit you over the head with the biggest "THIS IS A THING I AM TRYING TO TELL YOU" hammer he has to hand.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 22, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Actually I agree. It only needed to be mentioned the once. Or maybe not even mentioned, you know, show don't tell. But Moffat's way is to hit you over the head with the biggest "THIS IS A THING I AM TRYING TO TELL YOU" hammer he has to hand.



'Show don't tell' is exactly the phrase I was thinking of. If anything the more Capaldi makes derogatory references to Clara's appearance the more I start to wonder if maybe he does fancy her after all and playgrund-level insults is the only way he is able to express it. Which is probably not the point at all, but if there's supposed to be no romantic thing there then why mention it at all?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 22, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> They're trying a bit hard to point out that he no longer fancies Clara.


By having him materialise in her bedroom and go through her stuff. He's become her stalker!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 22, 2014)

Next weeks looks utter shite: Doctor gets a job as the janitor in Clara's school (not weird at all) while it's under attack from Seargant Bash from Robot Wars!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 22, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Next weeks looks utter shite: Doctor gets a job as the janitor in Clara's school (not weird at all) while it's under attack from Seargant Bash from Robot Wars!



Yeah, hopes are not high for that one 

Looks like a load of relationship bollocks with a monster thrown in at the end to remind people that, technically, they're watching Doctor Who.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 22, 2014)

Sir Killalot would make an excellent Who companion


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Sir Killalot would make an excellent Who companion



He was a crap robot though. Toos big and slow, and he had no decent weapons.


----------



## fucthest8 (Sep 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> along with lense flare they used a ton of visual cliches suited more to action/heist/crime films and it works
> 
> Bringing the monster out in slow mo, led in chains and orange jumpsuited- classic prison film visual cliche for introducing a Truly Hard Character



Exactly. I really enjoyed this one



8den said:


> Perwtree



I'm starting to think that you do this on purpose now


----------



## madamv (Sep 22, 2014)

He did make a remark to her didn't he?   Something saucy or flirty at the end...  I cant remember


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 22, 2014)

madamv said:


> He did make a remark to her didn't he?   Something saucy or flirty at the end...  I cant remember


Robbin' a bank... Beat that for a date!

Or something like that.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 22, 2014)

There's not meant to be any doctor/companion romance stuff because Capaldi said he doesn't want to, or something. I believe he mentioned something to that effect in an interview anyway. And good. I'm not totally averse to the idea of the doctor forming attachments of various types to his companions, but to have sexual or romantic tension there as par for the course, even if it's dismissed a couple of episodes later, is getting my back up.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 22, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Robbin' a bank... Beat that for a date!
> 
> Or something like that.



It did have a weird tone to it, imo. Almost felt a bit like jealousy.


----------



## 8den (Sep 22, 2014)

fucthest8 said:


> Exactly. I really enjoyed this one
> 
> 
> 
> I'm starting to think that you do this on purpose now



Snared.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 22, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> It did have a weird tone to it, imo. Almost felt a bit like jealousy.


I thought it was more like bragging... in a questioning way


----------



## Lord Camomile (Sep 22, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> It did have a weird tone to it, imo. Almost felt a bit like jealousy.


It doesn't necessarily have to be sexual/romantic jealously though. I get the impression that The Doctor needs/wants to be the most impressive and important person in people's lives, and so a boyfriend is a threat to that.

Perhaps not quite that simplistic, but it's a bit of Alpha (Centurai) male stuff, isn't it?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 22, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> He was a crap robot though. Toos big and slow, and he had no decent weapons.




he'd make short fucking work of K9 tho


----------



## madamv (Sep 22, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> It doesn't necessarily have to be sexual/romantic jealously though. I get the impression that The Doctor needs/wants to be the most impressive and important person in people's lives, and so a boyfriend is a threat to that.
> 
> Perhaps not quite that simplistic, but it's a bit of Alpha (Centurai) male stuff, isn't it?


Yes, I believe the doctor has always considered himself the most important person.  However, I hope there no proper romance stuff..... He's dedicated to river anyway isn't he?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 22, 2014)

I haven't seen this weeks yet but last weeks was fucking awful.


----------



## Santino (Sep 22, 2014)

Stop watching it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 22, 2014)

Santino said:


> Stop watching it.


I quite liked the other ones this series and really enjoy capaldi. 
That bed one was just stupid.


----------



## Quartz (Sep 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> he'd make short fucking work of K9 tho



K9 had a laser, didn't he?


----------



## gosub (Sep 23, 2014)

Quartz said:


> K9 had a laser, didn't he?




so k9 would win if it was a putting shelves up straight deathmatch


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 23, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I quite liked the other ones this series and really enjoy capaldi.
> That bed one was just stupid.



This week's one is, if not quite top drawer, then definitely second drawer down.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2014)

new doctor who blog ftw

http://doctorwho.io9.com/


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 23, 2014)

Perhaps it's not seargant Bash but K9 from the Mirror Universe.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 27, 2014)

Not only the best episode of the series...one of the best ever.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 27, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> Not only the best episode of the series...one of the best ever.


Certainly the best of the series. How peculiar is that!


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 27, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Certainly the best of the series. How peculiar is that!


I was laughing, I was going 'oooh' in multiple ways, my jaw dropped a couple of times.  Really, really good.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 27, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> I was laughing, I was going 'oooh' in multiple ways, my jaw dropped a couple of times.  Really, really good.



It's been a good while since there was an episode I just plain enjoyed as much as this one. Clara is so much better written this series than last, giving Jenna C something to work with, and of course Capaldi seems to be reveling in it. Good stuff.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 27, 2014)

I've told my boy that when he is 15 I'll let him see the doctor swearing and shouting and bullying politicians. He's thoroughly excited!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 27, 2014)

Was Danny's service spent in the power rangers?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2014)

Mr Pinks amazeballs world saving flip 

the monser of the week was a bit...filler...but the humour was quality- capaldis running PE teacher gag among many lols.

I think this was an episode of character development over plot, even though they did shoehorn some meta arc stuff in at the end. Liked more for pathos than for quality sci fi time.

Lots of good support as wll. Disruptive Influence lol


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> .. Disruptive Influence lol


Yeah...slipped in subtly.  Maybe part of the arc.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Disruptive Influence lol



"Oh, there really has been a spillage"

Also, Twelve's smug self-satisfaction when he thinks Clara has copped off with an Eleven-a-like


----------



## Helen Back (Sep 27, 2014)

Did anyone else spot Clara's Moon buttons in the last bit which may have been a hint about the next episode? Makes me wonder if there have been easter eggs about the following episode in each one...

And the music was a bit reminiscent of Sherlock in places and the afterlife official was somewhat Mycroftian.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 27, 2014)

I wonder if the doctor is considered a local hero at that school.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 27, 2014)

Helen Back said:


> ..And the music was a bit reminiscent of Sherlock in places and the afterlife official was somewhat Mycroftian.


I thought a lot of the second half was Sherlockian.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2014)

That was one of the best episodes in a long time.


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 27, 2014)

This cast is really good. Not just Capaldi, who is joyously wonderful, but Jenna Coleman is so good now she's got something decent to do and I also rate Samuel Anderson both practically and aesthetically. They just hit emotional points in the plot that seem truer and less shallow than before, however brief. Maybe someone else could be more articulate. 

Loving this series.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 28, 2014)

excellent fun episode 'though the grandchild found it a bit scarier than listen judging by the occasional cushion deployment


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 28, 2014)

I really didn't like the invisibility watch. With that any future plot will have to deal with why any perilous situation wasn't avoided by using that device, otherwise they've thrown away a big chunk of consistency. It just seemed a massively powerful item to introduce for very little reason.

Didn't really rate the story - why was the alien only now waking, what was it was doing in the abandoned building, how did the Doctor know it was around?

Acting and dialogue were good though and as others have said, Clara is getting better as a character and Jenna Coleman is doing a great job.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 28, 2014)

I enjoyed it, but thought it was a bit patchy.  Not as good as the first 4, but better than last week's. 

I thought the opening collage of quick scenes depicting Clara and Danny's dates was too cutesy and went on too long.  Later, the way they dealt with the Doctor finding out about Danny and Clara was too clunking and drawn out.  It could have been suggested to better effect had it been more subtle.  In both those aspects, I detect Moffat's mawkish "tell not show hand" at work.  Reign it in, Steve; you can go it.

(Also not keen on Missy being "God". I'll hold fire on that for now.  But you're on a warning, Moffat).

That aside, it was fun, there was great dialogue, good dynamic between characters sparking off each other, and well-handled humour. 

I am also just nerdy enough to enjoy the fact that the school was the same one featured in An Unearthly Child.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Sep 28, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> Not only the best episode of the series...one of the best ever.


Really? It was probably the best of the series but that was hardly a high bar.
I thought it was watchable but the story was pretty crap.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 28, 2014)

Liked the PE teacher jokes and Danny taking the piss out of the doctor


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 28, 2014)

The robot was shit though. NO getting away from that.


----------



## DexterTCN (Sep 28, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Really? It was probably the best of the series but that was hardly a high bar.
> I thought it was watchable but the story was pretty crap.



What story?


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Sep 28, 2014)

Didn't see it...as the telly died on Friday.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 28, 2014)

Watched it this morning , half asleep thought it was quite funny but the story a bit meh. I also have a feeling the girl at the school who threw up in the tardis is going to have a much bigger role ( possibly a future version of her.... )


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 28, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Didn't see it...as the telly died on Friday.


Iplayer on the laptop / tablet/ phone ?


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Sep 28, 2014)

ruffneck23 said:


> Iplayer on the laptop / tablet/ phone ?


I'm not in the UK...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> I'm not in the UK...



Hola/MediaHint are your friends.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2014)

Anyone recall this horror? I must have scrubbed it from my mind.

Its a short anniversary special. Starts with pertwee on _Noels House Party
_
then I shit you not, it turns into a who/eastenders crossover with three doctors. I can barely remember who any of the eastenders faces are either

that probably set the 'new who' cause back by a good 10 years


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 29, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Anyone recall this horror? I must have scrubbed it from my mind.
> 
> Its a short anniversary special. Starts with pertwee on _Noels House Party
> _
> ...



I remember getting excited and watching it in the wastelands of nineties Who fandom. The plot still holds together better than the McGann film.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 29, 2014)

Fuck, that really was shit.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Sep 30, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> I remember getting excited and watching it in the wastelands of nineties Who fandom. The plot still holds together better than the McGann film.


It really doesn't.

I was rather hoping noone would post this abortion.


----------



## Santino (Sep 30, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Anyone recall this horror? I must have scrubbed it from my mind.
> 
> Its a short anniversary special. Starts with pertwee on _Noels House Party
> _
> ...



 It was shot in 3D too.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Sep 30, 2014)

Saw this the other day in the newspaper. ..

"Over amorous Dalek apologises to dented dustbin"


----------



## 8115 (Oct 4, 2014)

I feel this weeks episode might have more than a bit to owe to Pitch Black.


----------



## binka (Oct 4, 2014)

i always find shoddy science / facts spoil things. the dr mentioned the moon putting on '1.3billion tonnes' when really that's an insignificant amount when compared to the acutal mass of the moon. reminds me of in prometheus where the evil woman mentioned being 'half a billion miles from earth' which wouldn't even take you out the solar system. why is it so fucking difficult to get absolutely basic stuff correct? oh i know we'll mention a billion because that sounds like loads. arseholes.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 4, 2014)

That was a ludicrous episode, still really liking this Dr though


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 4, 2014)

For Clara and Doctor:



Some insipired scheduling...(look out the window)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 4, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Some insipired scheduling...(look out the window)



Ha, excellent


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 4, 2014)

Barmy premise, fun episode.

Dark Timelord!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 4, 2014)

I'm able to suspend disbelief to a very great extent. I've no problem with the moon being an egg, and a winged creature emerging from it and, err, flying away through the vacuum of space, honestly. But the repeated mentions of the moon being 100 million years old, and an extra 1.6 billion tonnes being a significant amount really bugged me about this for some reason. Perhaps it was because using figures implies some sort of calculation and precision, but that just seems shite when they are so wildly wrong.

Otherwise, I think Clara should have decked the Doctor so hard he regenerated. Major dick in this episode.


----------



## binka (Oct 4, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> But the repeated mentions of the moon being 100 million years old


was going to mention that but considered the possibility this happens every hundred million years so technically the moon is only 100 million years old. but other than that agree completely - perfectly happy with a giant insect hatching from the moon-egg and flying away - just don't pluck numbers out the air when it takes about 20 seconds to google it!


----------



## Mungy (Oct 4, 2014)

wasn't bad. could have been loads better. still like capaldi, there were a few moments he reminded me of tom baker.


----------



## T & P (Oct 4, 2014)

I wish Clara would fuck off, tbh...


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 5, 2014)

Obvs suspension of disbelief, but I thought that was excellent.  I didn't like the last two episodes at all, but thought this was great.  Courtney, the last doomed mission to the moon, the moon being a giant alien, the Doctor leaving it all to humans to decide except he was always going to jump in if they decide to take off and nuke it from orbit, Clara's rightful anger…  All very very good.  I love spacesuit episodes.

Clara really is leaving at the end of this season, isn't she?


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 5, 2014)

I subscribe to Philip Sandifer's very good, thought-provoking critical analysis of Doctor Who: Tardis Eruditorom.  You should read it if you want a lit-crit history/review of every Docor Who episode EVER.

His review (I think it's spot on) is here: 


> This was the single best episode of _Doctor Who_ ever.
> The joke is that the episode as a whole is a decisive move towards the classic themes of science fiction they espouse. Harness was apparently instructed to “Hinchcliffe the shit” out of the first fifteen minutes, and he did, but equally important is the way in which he Lamberted the shit out of it. On a very basic level, this starts like the show did back, well, in the immediate aftermath of two teachers from Coal Hill School confronting a secretive alien in their school. It starts with “here’s a weird place, let’s go explore it.” It does a self-consciously back to basics opening, complete with the Doctor not using the namechecked psychic paper and instead doing a classic, fast, and utterly believable bit of talking his way into command of a situation. There’s a self-conscious move, throughout the start of this episode, to frame_Doctor Who_ in a very classic way.
> That’s been a mission statement all season, but with the exception of _Into the Dalek_, which combined a visually splendid “here’s what Terry Nation wished you could see” with the same warmed over Dalek story we’ve been redoing since 2005, there hasn’t really been the decisive turn to doing the “here’s _Doctor Who_ as you expect it, only not quite” approach that this season has been developing onto something that’s almost entirely composed out of the series’ golden age science fiction heritage.
> The series has gotten very smart about how it handles the near future, fully embracing the fact that it’s going to be proven wrong by longevity and accepting that you can still do interesting television that’s a clear extension of the immediate-term. Or, to put it another way, and a relevant one given the Mexican mining facility, _The Enemy of the World_ is not harmed in the least by the fact that it’s looking mediocre as a prediction of 2018. Which, you know, we might have figured out when _2000 AD_ and _2001: a Space Odyssey_ survived the odometer rollover, but we’re Doctor Who fans and so are inclined to be irrationally paranoid that nobody will like us. So why not do something that will probably… well, no, actually, let’s remember, the moon is an egg, so essentially certainly turn out not to happen in 2049. (Season Forty-Three, by the way, assuming no more gap years.)
> ...


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 5, 2014)

I would have liked the episode a lot more if  it wasn't the moon.

make it  one of the  largest asteroids in the asteroid belt  like  Ceres  

play up the   baby will want to eat  aspect, maybe implying that the asteoid belt  is the remains  of the last planet  snacked on by mumsy.

would  feel a bit  better  for me.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 5, 2014)

So where did the extra mass come from? What was junior eating?


----------



## 8115 (Oct 5, 2014)

I'm not rating this series


----------



## kittyP (Oct 5, 2014)

I get what all you likers are saying about it but it didn't grab me this one.

Also, back on earth at the end, it all looked very serene 
Surely the earth would be wobbling on it's axis, utter mayhem going on weather wise and all sorts more?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 5, 2014)

yeah.   too much fake drama.  supposed  mass flooding  etc   but  notice all the major  cities lights  looked ok.


----------



## binka (Oct 5, 2014)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> yeah.   too much fake drama.  supposed  mass flooding  etc   but  notice all the major  cities lights  looked ok.


oh yeah mentioned 'high tides everywhere at once' which shows a complete failure to understand how and why tides happen!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 5, 2014)

About to watch it on iPlayer.

I've just sent a letter of complaint to the BBC about the ridiculous scheduling. It's on far too late for young children. It starts at 8:30, which is when my little boy goes to bed!

Having a 'kids' show finish after the watershed is mental.


----------



## kittyP (Oct 5, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> About to watch it on iPlayer.
> 
> I've just sent a letter of complaint to the BBC about the ridiculous scheduling. It's on far too late for young children. It starts at 8:30, which is when my little boy goes to bed!
> 
> Having a 'kids' show finish after the watershed is mental.



Can you not record or use iplayer?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 5, 2014)

starting at 8:30 is a bit on the late side.

I'm guessing nowadays  it's more of  teen+ audience..  or at least that's  where the money is.  so putting it on at that time  don't effect their "core audience"

i'm guessing it almost more of an export show than anything else


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 5, 2014)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> starting at 8:30 is a bit on the late side.
> 
> I'm guessing nowadays  it's more of  teen+ audience..  or at least that's  where the money is.  so putting it on at that time  don't effect their "core audience"
> 
> i'm guessing it almost more of an export show than anything else





mwgdrwg said:


> About to watch it on iPlayer.
> 
> I've just sent a letter of complaint to the BBC about the ridiculous scheduling. It's on far too late for young children. It starts at 8:30, which is when my little boy goes to bed!
> 
> Having a 'kids' show finish after the watershed is mental.



It did seem odd scheduling and I do think it was on too late but I wonder if it's less to do with it now being a teenage or older show but more that "Strictly" is the BBC's stick they want to beat the X factor with plus their flagship Light Entertainment kiddies to grannies programme so they went for that as their core Saturday night programme.

I would have had it the opposite way with Dr. Who starting at 6.30pm with Strictly on after. And I speak as a Strictly fan!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 5, 2014)

ohhh some interesting numbers here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_time#United_Kingdom


> 10PM-11PM weekdays = 17,000,000
> 9PM-10PM weekdays = 23,000,000
> 8PM-9PM weekdays = 24,000,000
> 7PM-8PM weekdays = 18,000,000
> 6PM-7PM weekdays = 18,000,000



if this is the same at weekends  here is a massive jump   during the 8-9 slot


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 5, 2014)

kittyP said:


> Can you not record or use iplayer?



Yeah, but I'd rather we could watch it 'live' as a family on a Saturday evening, as we have with every single episode since in returned with Ecclestone. It's on too late for my youngest now.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 5, 2014)

Anyway, I've been fobbed off with a quick pre-written reply. Hey, if it's good enough for fucking 'Atlantis', it's good enough for Doctor Who!

"Thanks for contacting us.

We’re sorry to hear that you’re disappointed with the scheduling of Doctor Who. This decision was carefully considered, and it has always been the plan for this series of Doctor Who to follow Strictly, once Strictly started, in the same way that Atlantis and previously Merlin did, as this series is on air in the Autumn.

We know from viewer feedback and audience research that viewing levels are still high at this time amongst young audiences and children, and Doctor Who has always generated very high levels of recorded playback and iPlayer viewing, so lots of children and families already choose a time that suits them over the days that follow.

Nonetheless, we do appreciate your feedback on this matter, and please rest assured that it has been noted and circulated both to the scheduling teams and more widely across the BBC.

Thanks again for contacting us.

Kind Regards

Brian Irvine

BBC Complaints"


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 5, 2014)

I'm pretty sure your letter there was pretty much identical to the press release the Mirror were working from a fortnight ago.


----------



## ebonics (Oct 5, 2014)

I was really put off by this episode.  Loved Courtney, and definitely feel less like slapping Clara after every sentence these days. But the episode itself just seemed so preachy and trafficked in really tired pro-life cliches, for me.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 6, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> I'm pretty sure your letter there was pretty much identical to the press release the Mirror were working from a fortnight ago.



Of course, it's important to have corporate consistency.


----------



## Spod (Oct 6, 2014)

The concept of the moon-egg thing had merit in terms of imagination but the science was poorly thought through and would annoy most people with even a passing knowledge of astronony/physics. 

I think Capaldi is an excellent choice of the Doctor but he is not managing to cut it at the moment. Not his fault - give him a decent plot to work with FFS!


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 6, 2014)

Spod said:


> The concept of the moon-egg thing had merit in terms of imagination but the science was poorly thought through and would annoy most people with even a passing knowledge of astronony/physics.
> 
> I think Capaldi is an excellent choice of the Doctor but he is not managing to cut it at the moment. Not his fault - give him a decent plot to work with FFS!


I t would of made more sense if a bit like the Racnoss the egg had been within the Moon from the beginning and had slowly devoured it in growing. The mass thing still wouldn't make sense though. The creatures growth could of changed the orbit of the moon causing all sorts of chaos. I'm guessing they went with the mass thing so that old man Capaldi didn't have to bounce everywhere.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 6, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> So where did the extra mass come from? What was junior eating?



Indeed. I didn't buy 'high tide everywhere on earth at once' either, as that would require a vast amount of extra water to appear out of nowhere.

Seemed like the 'extra mass' bit was thrown in so the actors didn't have to do comedy moon-walking. Also to allow for a scene where Courtney levitates for no real reason. The moon breaking apart is enough peril by itself surely? The characters could easily have been given 'gravity boots' or something, or the gravity thing could have just been ignored; like in the film 'moon' which just did a sly bit of lampshade-hanging by having the characters play ping-pong. A few bits of editing by anyone with a GCSE in physics would have made a big difference to this one IMO.

Especially considering the unsubtle 'pay attention at school, kids' message behind the whole thing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 6, 2014)

Otherwise it was pretty good, visually very impressive, an interesting twist on well worn Whovian tropes. But it's a sci-fi show and this isn't the 1960's, a quick glance at wikipedia isn't too much to ask.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 6, 2014)

Also, why did the spider-shaped giant bacteria (we'll leave aside the issue of inherent size limitations of monocellular organisms) spin webs? What are they gonna catch in those webs, besides half a dozen astronauts every few decades? Why would a species with a single, immobile and effectively infinite food source even bother to evolve legs?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 6, 2014)

Why did the brand new moon/egg already have craters on it?

e2a: I'll stop now


----------



## Bonfirelight (Oct 6, 2014)

and how did that newborn space dragon thing lay it? how did it get pregnant?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 6, 2014)

"...and everyone on Earth looked up and saw something so beautiful they went off into space in peace and love and harmony. Y'know, sort of like Star Trek"

Did they bollocks! The saw a huge space monster explode out of something they thought was familiar and benign and armed themselves to the teeth!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 6, 2014)

Bonfirelight said:


> and how did that newborn space dragon thing lay it? how did it get pregnant?


That bothered me too. Not so much "how did it get pregnant", beause maybe that species is born pregnant or something (if it worked for Matthew Broderick in Godzilla... ), but how did it lay an egg that was essentially the same size as it?!


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 6, 2014)

Bonfirelight said:


> ... how did it get pregnant?


Like Tribbles, they're born pregnant.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 7, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> That bothered me too. Not so much "how did it get pregnant", beause maybe that species is born pregnant or something (if it worked for Matthew Broderick in Godzilla... ), but how did it lay an egg that was essentially the same size as it?!



Maybe it produced a soft shell that started gaining mass from somewhere? Like a balloon Moon womb?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 7, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also, why did the spider-shaped giant bacteria (we'll leave aside the issue of inherent size limitations of monocellular organisms) spin webs? What are they gonna catch in those webs, besides half a dozen astronauts every few decades? Why would a species with a single, immobile and effectively infinite food source even bother to evolve legs?


#why do they spin web


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 7, 2014)

I'm very content with the series so far.


----------



## Augie March (Oct 7, 2014)

The whole episode was a blatant attempt to start a Moon Dragon spin-off series.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 7, 2014)

If the tides are going haywire then surely a beach is the least safe place to materialise!

How does the kid end up as president of the US without a serious constitutional change. Trump wouldn't be pleased: black and female!


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 9, 2014)

lots of Alien nods


----------



## Santino (Oct 10, 2014)

Just saw John Hurt in the street.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 10, 2014)

Santino said:


> Just saw John Hurt in the street.



On the fucking moon?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2014)

did you shout 'England Prevails jon!'


----------



## Santino (Oct 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> did you shout 'England Prevails jon!'


No, but I would have if I'd thought of it.


----------



## prunus (Oct 11, 2014)

See, that's a bit more like it. 

And some wonderful references. I did like 'are you my mummy?'


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2014)

Much better. Back on track. Although, Frank, don't give up the day job.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 11, 2014)

I really rather liked that.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 11, 2014)

I really enjoyed that, thank god\science, I was starting to give up

"are you my mummy? " 

sorry prunus you beat me to it


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 11, 2014)

It's like, the hook - the idea of the mummy on the orient spaceship - is a mere distraction to be tossed aside in five minutes at the end. I don't get it anymore. WHat a waste.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 11, 2014)

are you sure you're not atomic suplex ?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 11, 2014)

I'm also going to say I think ' Danny' is the soldier that turns into the mummy, based on nothing what so ever


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 11, 2014)

skinner lol

A good story, clara's dress, a mummy and some soldier nods to the wider arc. Also clara at the end realises that she can tell mr pink 'be there at xxx!' and then can be delivered via tardis to that point in a few years cos its a time machine.

enjoyed the sort of grand 20s feel to the costumes in general.


----------



## T & P (Oct 11, 2014)

That was fucking ace! Best one of the series by a mile. Whoever wrote/ directed/ influenced this episode, please get them to do the rest- for I can't believe it's the same person who's written some of the others in this series.

I also like the idea of a new, menacing foe in the shape of Gus. The Doctor has been missing a proper nemesis.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 11, 2014)

It could have been a good story, but the pacing was way off. 

Who was 'Gus'? Oh doesn't matter.
What was this soldier? Why was it a mummy? Oh doesn't matter.
Why does Gus want all this stuff to the point of torturing people? Oh doesn't matter.

That doesn't work for me. It's not satisfying at all. The orient express in space thing is really cool, but i feel it was wasted. 

I think I'd prefer a serial, like of old. Something that has a chance to develop and doesn't have to be shoehorned into 45 mins.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 11, 2014)

T & P said:


> That was fucking ace! Best one of the series by a mile. Whoever wrote/ directed/ influenced this episode, please get them to do the rest- for I can't believe it's the same person who's written some of the others in this series.
> 
> I also like the idea of a new, menacing foe in the shape of Gus. The Doctor has been missing a proper nemesis.


Yeah, it was a lot better than the others.  Still not great though.  It's even making me nostalgic for (hiss) River Song.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 11, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Who was 'Gus'? Oh doesn't matter.
> What was this soldier? Why was it a mummy? Oh doesn't matter.
> Why does Gus want all this stuff to the point of torturing people? Oh doesn't matter.
> 
> .



the series hasn't ended yet....


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 11, 2014)

T & P said:


> I also like the idea of a new, menacing foe in the shape of Gus. The Doctor has been missing a proper nemesis.



Gus had some great lines.

"Unfortunately, survivors of this excercise are not required."


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 12, 2014)

I liked that Capaldi was blatantly channeling Tom Baker, from the teeth-and-eyes acting to the jelly babies in the cigarette case  

GUS was very Douglas Adams (Sirius Cybernetics Corporation) as well.

So, who was GUS?  Will we see him/her again?  GUS=Missy?

Is the Doctor changing his antipathy towards soldiers?  Or is his seeming dislike really self-hatred, and he's recognising himself increasingly in the PTSD-casualties he encounters?  The Captain and the Mummy were both victim-soldiers just like him.  Interesting.  Is Danny one too?

ETA Clara was brilliant in this too.  And hot.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 12, 2014)

that was a fucking vast improvement on last week  

pretty descent who

and yes  his delivery of  some of the stuff was  kinda tom bakerish  although  his attitude  is more mccoy


----------



## Chz (Oct 12, 2014)

T & P said:


> That was fucking ace! Best one of the series by a mile. Whoever wrote/ directed/ influenced this episode, please get them to do the rest- for I can't believe it's the same person who's written some of the others in this series.
> 
> I also like the idea of a new, menacing foe in the shape of Gus. The Doctor has been missing a proper nemesis.


The writer is new to Who. He was originally responsible a number of episodes of Being Human.

And we'll have a chance to see if it was a fluke - he wrote the next one, too.


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 12, 2014)

I loved last nights episode but it's making me think...is Capaldi really a good choice to be The Dr? I really struggle to separate Malcolm Tucker from his portrayal of the Dr, he seems constantly stuck in angry mode. I'm not saying he's necessarily a _bad _Dr... but... he won't be replacing my beloved Eccles cake


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2014)

spot on review

http://io9.com/doctor-whos-old-school-monster-story-manages-to-feel-am-1645164850



> Capaldi continues to be incredible in the role of the Doctor. The real joy of this season, thus far, has been watching Capaldi in a variety of situations, just nailing the strangeness and curiosity of the Doctor. I said earlier that he seems at times to be doing a bit of Tom Baker — but his voice is actually reminding me at times of Jon Culshaw doing Tom Baker, instead, in a wonderfully wry tone. He gets so much mileage out of lines like "She was an old woman. It's practically their job description." And of course, "Are you my mummy?"
> 
> And meanwhile, Capaldi is constantly using his eyes to telegraph when the Doctor is being especially calculating, or not entirely straightforward with people. In this particular story, especially, the Doctor keeps looking to one side when he talks to Clara, as if he's trying to sneak something past her. The Clara-Doctor relationship has been a lot more fascinating this year, and not just because Clara is no longer a mystery to be solved — both Capaldi and Jenna Coleman are really bringing a lot more layers to their interactions, and it's great to watch. This season's stories, thus far, have ranged from "okay" to "superb," but the performances have been pretty much uniformly great


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 12, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> I loved last nights episode but it's making me think...is Capaldi really a good choice to be The Dr? I really struggle to separate Malcolm Tucker from his portrayal of the Dr, he seems constantly stuck in angry mode. I'm not saying he's necessarily a _bad _Dr... but... he won't be replacing my beloved Eccles cake



I try to bear in mind that this doctor regenerated shortly after facing up to his role in the Time War, and that he's suffering the consequences of that, hence the abrasiveness and anger - he's dealing with trauma that he'd been suppressing for three previous regenerations (if Hurt fell between McGann and Ecclescake). Now he has to actually (because of the situation with Gallifrey) think about what he did, and the ongoing consequences.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 12, 2014)

Watched it this afternoon. Dr Who is the only British show I watch and I'm very often disappointed but this episode was class. Capaldi is everything I want in a Doctor and he's now my second favourite after Tom Baker.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 13, 2014)

Capaldi is great. The storytelling is not.


----------



## belboid (Oct 13, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Capaldi is great. The storytelling is not.


Stop watching.  Or, at least, stop posting.



That one deffo worked best so far. There's been some very good stories, some wonderful lines, and some very nice costumes, but this was the first one where it all came together. A couple of them have been  very good, but felt slightly under-rehearsed, with the lines delivered half a fraction too late, a couple have been very good except for a silly bit (golden bloody arrow...), a couple have only been good.  But this one hit all the nails squarely on the head - even with Frank Sodding Skinner. Cracking stuff.


----------



## Cloo (Oct 13, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Watched it this afternoon. Dr Who is the only British show I watch and I'm very often disappointed but this episode was class. Capaldi is everything I want in a Doctor and he's now my second favourite after Tom Baker.


He was very consciously channeling Baker at a few points in this episode, I thought, and I'm not just talking about the jelly babies.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 13, 2014)

yes it was almost spooky with the voice and the teeth


----------



## belboid (Oct 13, 2014)

PursuedByBears said:


> GUS was very Douglas Adams (Sirius Cybernetics Corporation) as well.


the writer did previously write the Dirk Gently adaptations


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why did the brand new moon/egg already have craters on it?
> 
> e2a: I'll stop now



How did the moon/egg thing gain mass? Even if the larva eats the moon as it grows the moon doesn't gain mass. Solar wind? Daft.

A couple of the early ones were terrible, the first one with the drippy Lizard woman and Mr Potato head and also the Robin Hood one, but some good ones latterly, particularly the 'Foretold'.

But it's all so bleedin random. Story arc doesn't have any import or interest. Clara likes him/doesn't. Meh. Tbh Clara's character seems to be there to be a clothes horse mostly.

Basically Dr Who needs to just pitch up, solve the problem and leave again. Each week. I never needed to know what Shaggy and Scooby were feeling (apart from hungry or scared. Zoiks!).


----------



## belboid (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Story arc doesn't have any import or interest.


good, series long story 'arcs' are shite



> Tbh Clara's character seems to be there to be a clothes horse mostly.


Utter nonsense


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Oct 13, 2014)

belboid said:


> good, series long story 'arcs' are shite
> 
> 
> Utter nonsense


There is a story arc ("heaven") but it's not being massively shoved in our faces too much every week. With regard to the soldiering thing I think Mr. Pink nailed it with his bit about the Doctor not being soldier but an Officer and Capaldi squirmed brilliantly at that.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 13, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> It could have been a good story, but the pacing was way off.
> 
> Who was 'Gus'? Oh doesn't matter.
> What was this soldier? Why was it a mummy? Oh doesn't matter.
> ...



Spot on.  All the elements of a great episode, but squandered by the underwritten 'oh, he's not that evil, really' - poof! and he's gone - 'faulty tech' denouement.  If you had more than one episode, with cliffhangers, you could have drawn out the suspense better without having to rush the ending.

I was sure Frank was going to turn out to be implicated.  Misdirection is fair enough but, if he wasn't relevant after all, why didn't he teleport/ vapourise when it was revealed that everyone else who wasn't a necessary scientist etc. was just there to make it look more real?


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 13, 2014)

Pseudopsycho said:


> There is a story arc ("heaven") but it's not being massively shoved in our faces too much every week.



Doubtless that will change, more's the pity.


----------



## Pingu (Oct 13, 2014)

hmmm...

have to say that after a promising start this series is starting to lose me. the stories are really shallow and sometimes feel too random. 

i think his potential as the doctor is really really good but he needs the stories for it to happen.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 13, 2014)

Pingu said:


> i think his potential as the doctor is really really good but he needs the stories for it to happen.


aka the mcgann effect.

See also first series of McCoy's and large chunks of colin baker's run

Although i personally don't rank cb he was hit badly by the same problem

The reverse is the tom baker effect where a good doctor  manages to pull up the quality of shity stories.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

belboid said:


> good, series long story 'arcs' are shite
> 
> 
> Utter nonsense



Yeh, I agree really. Don't want story arcs. All gets too earnest and actory.

But Clara? She's a nice and energetic enough screen presence, but that's it rather than adding gravity or curiosity to the role.

Why doesn't the doc ever take a balding middle aged man with him if he luvs hoomins so much?


----------



## belboid (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> But Clara? She's a nice and energetic enough screen presence, but that's it rather than adding gravity or curiosity to the role.


she's a much more rounded character this time, and she does what all the companions are meant to do - make the Doctor more intelligible/fun/scary


----------



## Pingu (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Yeh, I agree really. Don't want story arcs. All gets too earnest and actory.
> 
> But Clara? She's a nice and energetic enough screen presence, but that's it rather than adding gravity or curiosity to the role.
> 
> Why doesn't the doc ever take a balding middle aged man with him if he luvs hoomins so much?



cos he like a bit of eye candy?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2014)

yeh with Clara no longer being the impossible girl tm she's become an actual character rather than a story arc in of itself

can't mention this weeks dress enough though, I wish I had a time machine and could go back to the 20s


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2014)

prohibition era chicago


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2014)

thats where the doc should go next week, fill it with bugsy malone nods for the lols, capone turns out to be a slitheen. The doc weilds a tommy gun (with spplooge in it)


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

Pingu said:


> cos he like a bit of eye candy?



He's 900 years old!! You keep those mucky thoughts to yourself.


----------



## Pingu (Oct 13, 2014)

every traveller needs a bit of giggity to help with the bank


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Yeh, I agree really. Don't want story arcs. All gets too earnest and actory.



There's a difference between the kind of self-important 'theory of Doctor Who' story arcs we've had since the reboot, and the multi-episode 'adventure' of old, though.

I agree the former is tedious.  It seems to come from a desire to 'make it more than the sum of its parts', reflecting how much the writers/producers love the thing presumably (ie well-intentioned), but it's really superfluous to enjoyment of the programme and always so riddled with holes it's just irritating.

The latter, though, isn't about trying to crowbar in some high-falutin concept, just about not feeling like we're being bundled at breakneck speed through the ups and downs, false endings, misdirections and eventual triumphs of any particular storyline.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> He's 900 years old!! You keep those mucky thoughts to yourself.



2000 years old now, apparently. He skipped 1000 years in between the last time he told us how old he was and this new series. Tennant's Doc was 900. Smith's jumped to 1000-and-some years. Capaldi's 1 mention of his age had him at 2000.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 13, 2014)

that's cos he spent so much time chilling on trenzalore


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2014)

all that shit with turlougth and the key to time, the white guardian who turned out to be evil YAAAAAAAWN kept getting in the way of good stories, and peter davidson had some corkers.

the new who story arcs are good though, bad wolf was great. They don't often make a huge deal of sense but all the visual clues and rndom hints keep me guessing


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> all that shit with turlougth and the key to time, the white guardian who turned out to be evil YAAAAAAAWN kept getting in the way of good stories, and peter davidson had some corkers.
> 
> the new who story arcs are good though, bad wolf was great. They don't often make a huge deal of sense but all the visual clues and rndom hints keep me guessing



It's very tedious when the whole of creation is in peril. It's never going to live up to that kind of build up.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 13, 2014)

good episode, a nice straight forward  adventure enjoyed by me, son and grandkids


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> 2000 years old now, apparently. He skipped 1000 years in between the last time he told us how old he was and this new series. Tennant's Doc was 900. Smith's jumped to 1000-and-some years. Capaldi's 1 mention of his age had him at 2000.



You are correct. However he can't really be any age that makes any sense as to age measures the change in state of matter. His matter has changed and then had to change back if he travelled backwards in time and therefore his ageing is undone, done, blah blah.

Time travel is always a bit crap tbh.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Time travel is always a bit crap tbh.


Says the man without next week's lottery numbers in hand 

Why doesn't Clara do the Euro Millions?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2014)

because in the whoniverse newly qualified teachers are paid a decent wage so she has no need.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 13, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Says the man without next week's lottery numbers in hand
> 
> Why doesn't Clara do the Euro Millions?



This is a Level One Error in the 'Questions you must NEVER ask EVER' module of Dr Who studies, along with 'Why do about 98% of the galaxy's aliens speak English?'


----------



## belboid (Oct 13, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> 'Why do about 98% of the galaxy's aliens speak English?'


thats cos of the Tardis' telepathically based universal translation system

The other one is cos it'd be cheating, and that's _terrible_


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 13, 2014)

Probably down to blininavitch limitation.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 13, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> because in the whoniverse newly qualified teachers are paid a decent wage so she has no need.


Gotta love good fiction.




Shippou-Sensei said:


> Probably down to blininavitch limitation.


I don't think it is that. That geeza from Back To The Future did it, so it must be possible... and I do think it should be written into the script, then Clara could lord it up, like Wayne and Waynetta Slob did when they won... and she could buy her own TARDIS


----------



## Santino (Oct 13, 2014)

The Tenth Doctor gave Donna a (presumably winning) lottery ticket as a wedding present.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 13, 2014)

belboid said:


> thats cos of the Tardis' telepathically based universal translation system
> 
> The other one is cos it'd be cheating, and that's _terrible_



This explanation requires the Tardis to _know _it's in a TV show* and understand that what is required of it is to make all languages mutually intelligible (and sound like English), except when it furthers a particular plotline for one particular alien species to go around gargling and grunting in a threatening manner instead.

*maybe this is some kind of postmodern telepathy.  It translates universally, except when it doesn't, in which cases it winks at you knowingly whilst not translating.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 13, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> *This explanation requires the Tardis to know it's in a TV show* and understand that what is required of it is to make all languages mutually intelligible* (and sound like English), except when it furthers a particular plotline for one particular alien species to go around gargling and grunting in a threatening manner instead.
> 
> *maybe this is some kind of postmodern telepathy.  It translates universally, except when it doesn't, in which cases it winks at you knowingly whilst not translating.



It's true... it even knows what country you're watching from.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> This is a Level One Error in the 'Questions you must NEVER ask EVER' module of Dr Who studies, along with 'Why do about 98% of the galaxy's aliens speak English?'



Or why do recently introduced characters ever agree to go anywhere potentially dangerous? YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!


----------



## belboid (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Or why do recently introduced characters ever agree to go anywhere potentially dangerous? YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!


aah, but they dont know that they're only recently introduced


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 13, 2014)

belboid said:


> h, but they dont know that they're only recently introduced


I reckon a fookin' huge camera or 5, where there were none previously, might give it away.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

belboid said:


> h, but they dont know that they're only recently introduced



They get an inkling when they hear the word 'EXTERMINATE'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2014)

newly introduced redshirts never KNOW that going on the away team is fatal


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 13, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> newly introduced redshirts never KNOW that going on the away team is fatal


It's been happening for nearly 50 years. You'd think they'd have wised up by now, especially with all the H&S regs these days.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 13, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> good episode, a nice straight forward  adventure enjoyed by me, son and grandkids


 Must admit, that looked like it was going to be the kind of episode I hate (light and fluffy, heads off to meet Robin Hood, agatha Christie etc).  It was actually okay.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> It's been happening for nearly 50 years. You'd think they'd have wised up by now, especially with all the H&S regs these days.



That's right. When the Doctor is in our time there's an obligation on him to risk assess and mitigate against those risks.

Pops up in the 1950's or before he can do as he pleases.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> That's right. When the Doctor is in our time there's an obligation on him to risk assess and mitigate against those risks.
> 
> Pops up in the 1950's or before he can do as he pleases.


It's the reason Star Trek was banned from television. They couldn't write a script where a redshirt didn't die on his/her first away mission, and the PC brigade had had enough.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 13, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> It's the reason Star Trek was banned from television. They couldn't write a script where a redshirt didn't die on his/her first away mission, and the PC brigade had had enough.



I'd have been clinging onto the transporter console rather than join a landing party after punching McCoy. 

And stealing his crisps.


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 13, 2014)

Foxes


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 13, 2014)

was there some new stuff in there ?


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 13, 2014)

ruffneck23 said:


> was there some new stuff in there ?


Yes.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 13, 2014)

(wh)oooh...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Tbh Clara's character seems to be there to be a clothes horse mostly.



After a shaky start Clara's now much more of a proper character than Amy ever was.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 13, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> It's true... it even knows what country you're watching from.




Spanish Doctor seems to be played by Puss in Boots out of Shrek


----------



## 8115 (Oct 13, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> After a shaky start Clara's now much more of a proper character than Amy ever was.


What?  WHAT?

I feel like, maybe, it's not Doctor Who, it's me.  But something is badly wrong.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2014)

8115 said:


> What?  WHAT?
> 
> I feel like, maybe, it's not Doctor Who, it's me.  But something is badly wrong.


amy was the most godawful absence of character.  the worst excesses of moffat's weirdness when writing women.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 13, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> amy was the most godawful absence of character.  the worst excesses of moffat's weirdness when writing women.


Clara makes Amy look like Hamlet (or someother character with loads of depth).  Clara is just tits and eyes.  Amy had a great backstory and bucketloads of wry humour.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2014)

8115 said:


> Clara makes Amy look like Hamlet (or someother character with loads of depth).  Clara is just tits and eyes.  Amy had a great backstory and bucketloads of wry humour.


nah - you see wry humour, i saw sexual aggression and no existence beyone her relationship to men. what did she do?  for a living?  strippagram at the start and perfume model at the end.  her only existance beyond being tall and beautiful and flirty, was motherhood - almost entirely without the inconveniently un-model-beautiful stages of pregnancy and sleep deprivation etc.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 13, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> strippagram at the start and perfume model at the end.



Wasn't it her own brand of perfume, not just her being the model? Petrichor and all that?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 13, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Wasn't it her own brand of perfume, not just her being the model? Petrichor and all that?


ahh - yes.   that does ring a bell - but it doesn't really help.  I mean, she wasn't a research chemist in the perfume industry... it's not something a person can just 'do' - so it still doesn't help amy as a character feel more rounded.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> nah - you see wry humour, i saw sexual aggression and no existence beyone her relationship to men. what did she do?  for a living?  strippagram at the start and perfume model at the end.  her only existance beyond being tall and beautiful and flirty, was motherhood - almost entirely without the inconveniently un-model-beautiful stages of pregnancy and sleep deprivation etc.


Perfume model? 

I thought she became a writer, wasn't it her book that they found in the hotel before being sent back in time?


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 14, 2014)

No.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 14, 2014)

It's not going to make any long term sense and it's not going to be right on about the women. Like I say if it was they'd be the odd bald middle aged man as a companion. 

I'd like to put forward Richard Fairbrass. He'd be a good companion.


----------



## madamv (Oct 14, 2014)

I'm trying to get over seeing Clara as a Blue Peter presenter tbh.   She's just a 'bit keen' for my palate.   My 11yo loves her though


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2014)

take it this will b the last we see of old mr pink for a few eps? I was sort of hoping he'd be another companion. The Tardis used to get crowded back in the day


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 14, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> It's not going to make any long term sense and *it's not going to be right on about the women.* Like I say if it was they'd be the odd bald middle aged man as a companion.
> 
> I'd like to put forward Richard Fairbrass. He'd be a good companion.


why not?

can i mention donna again?  or even martha?  or clara?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2014)

martha wasn't even included in the 50th anniversary extravaganza. I'm sure she must have been asked but there was no martha. That was weird. I watched all the coverage, every bit of the doctor who splurge on the beeb. Even that crap comedy one with sylvester mcoy and the crap baker.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Like I say if it was they'd be the odd bald middle aged man as a companion.



pick me! pick me!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 14, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> martha wasn't even included in the 50th anniversary extravaganza. I'm sure she must have been asked but there was no martha. That was weird. I watched all the coverage, every bit of the doctor who splurge on the beeb. Even that crap comedy one with sylvester mcoy and the crap baker.



Personally I didn't get to the end of the 50th anniversary special and think, I wish Martha had been in that.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 15, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> It's been happening for nearly 50 years. You'd think they'd have wised up by now, especially with all the H&S regs these days.


actually  they  sussed it out  and made everyone wear red for the movies


so kirk blew up the enterprise

Now just the command crew wear red.  pity the poor guys in yellow


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 15, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Perfume model?
> 
> I thought she became a writer, wasn't it her book that they found in the hotel before being sent back in time?


river song wrote that one , Amy wrote the book that artie was reading in the bells of st John and it was also mentioned that she was a travel writer in the power of three I think.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 15, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Personally I didn't get to the end of the 50th anniversary special and think, I wish Martha had been in that.




I always felt Freema Agyeman was a bit hard done by. It's not her fault her character may not be the most memorable.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 15, 2014)

She was stuck between the extremely over hyped, and template upon which all companions must be judged, Rose and the genuinely interesting Donna. Hard times.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 15, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Personally I didn't get to the end of the 50th anniversary special and think, I wish Martha had been in that.



She might feel mercifully spared. It was bloody awful.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 15, 2014)

That it was.

Shoehorning John Hurt into DW continuity with the Time War was dire and a poor episode featuring some zygons.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 15, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> I always felt Freema Agyeman was a bit hard done by. It's not her fault her character may not be the most memorable.


i thought her character was ok.  but she remains one of the very worst actors i have ever seen on british tv.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 16, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> That it was.
> 
> Shoehorning John Hurt into DW continuity with the Time War was dire and a poor episode featuring some zygons.



An exceptional episode after the dullness of the 20th & tenth anniversary stories.

John Hurt's appearance blew the likes of Pertwee and Troughton's "dandy" banter into the black hole where it belongs.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 16, 2014)

yeah the 50th anniversary was absolutely brilliant. Jon Hurt can do no wrong in my eyes either. Except that time he did the V/O for that awful Space Marines film.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 16, 2014)

...which was a million times better than Dr Who 50


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 16, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah the 50th anniversary was absolutely brilliant. Jon Hurt can do no wrong in my eyes either. Except that time he did the V/O for that awful Space Marines film.


Did you see him on Who Do You Think You Are? 

If you like him, don't.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 16, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Did you see him on Who Do You Think You Are?
> 
> If you like him, don't.




is he a nob irl  I only know him from the roles


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 17, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> is he a nob irl  I only know him from the roles


know him well do you?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 17, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> is he a nob irl  I only know him from the roles


It was pretty funny, actually.  He was convinced he was descended from an Earl, but took it badly when he discovered he wasn't. 

His brother's a monk.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 17, 2014)

I'm sure he's said a few dodgy things about women or migrants or Moslems or maybe all three in the past as well.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 17, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I'm sure he's said a few dodgy things about women or migrants or Moslems or maybe all three in the past as well.



Isn't that kind of statement the better for at least some form of quote? 

Can't be worse than the Dr's recent form, asking black children if they have any shoplifting to be doing or insisting that black teachers must be involved only in physical education.

Like Father Ted - 'I hear you're a racist now Dr?'


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 17, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Isn't that kind of statement the better for at least some form of quote?
> 
> Can't be worse than the Dr's recent form, asking black children if they have any shoplifting to be doing or insisting that black teachers must be involved only in physical education.
> 
> Like Father Ted - 'I hear you're a racist now Dr?'


 The first one is harder to justify but not Toberman quality racism and would of worked with a white girl. It was the Doctors (a thiefs) perception of/dismissal of a youth. The Mr Pink thing repeatedly made clear it was because he was a soldier, perhaps they should of cast only whites in these roles to avoid this?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 17, 2014)

Bit sick of that crying teacher soldier. Worse than that peppy wide eyed Cbeebies girl. 
Didn't massively enjoy the train ep. I liked Skinner though, Would like a bit more of him. Capalidi is still good, we just need some decent stories and less of he young girls and all their sexy relationship thoughts. DOCTOR WHO SHOULD BE SEXLESS.


----------



## belboid (Oct 17, 2014)

You liked Skinner?  Now we know you're just taking the piss.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 17, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Didn't massively enjoy the train ep. I liked Skinner though, Would like a bit more of him.


This is the opposite of reality.

When does the porthole back to your own universe reopen?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 17, 2014)

Skinner wasn't as bad as I expected him to be, but yeah it was a massive relief when he declined to join the Dr


----------



## 8den (Oct 17, 2014)

If someone told me 18 years ago that Frank Skinner would guest in a episode of Doctor Who and the Angel Islington was the Doctor.....


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 17, 2014)

8den said:


> If someone told me 18 years ago that Frank Skinner would guest in a episode of Doctor Who and the Angel Islington was the Doctor.....


If someone told me 18 years ago there'd be Dr Who...


----------



## 8den (Oct 17, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> If someone told me 18 years ago there'd be Dr Who...



*Cough* the 1996 tv movie with Paul McGann came out the same year as 3 Lions and Neverwhere.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 17, 2014)

I had no problem with the movie.


----------



## 8den (Oct 17, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I had no problem with the movie.



The Movie. 

Pros.
1. The Tardis has never looked better. Ever. Best Tardis interior ever. 
2. Torn the whole regeneration scene intercut with Frankenstein was easily the coolest regeneration ever. 
3. Puccini.


Cons.
1. Why do the Daleks kill the Master and give his remains to the Doctor?
2. The Tardis is full of clocks, and the Doctor is reading Jules Verne "The Time Machine". When the Master escapes the record skips as she sings "Time" over and over again.  The whole thing is a subtle as a hammer. 
3. It's really unfair on McCoy. Thats no way for a Doctor to go out. 
4. Why is the Doctor suddenly psychic? He literally can read Grace's mind.
5. As we've seen with Matt Smith and his anti grav motor bike and flying space scooter whenever the Doctor is on a motorbike it is simply a terrible idea.  
6. Eye of Harmony?
7. The Doctor is HALF HUMAN! HALF HUMAN?
8. Grace rewires the TARDIS
9. THE DOCTOR SNOGS GRACE. NO. NO. NO. 

I really like McCann's Doctor but the film was fucking dire.


----------



## prunus (Oct 18, 2014)

Lovely setup - peril mystery and humour. Hope it lives up to it.


----------



## prunus (Oct 18, 2014)

prunus said:


> Lovely setup - peril mystery and humour. Hope it lives up to it.



No one else watching?

Well, I'd have loved it if that had been 5 episodes, like it used to be - I reckon there was enough in it to do that - but given that this is how they do then now, I thought that was very good.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 18, 2014)

I enjoyed it, another very good episode :thumbs :


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2014)

monsters from flatland ftw


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2014)

I thought the whole schtick of clara being Doctor for a day was good, some excellent lines in accordance with that- 'what are you a doctor of' etc


----------



## 8den (Oct 18, 2014)

Whats weird is the CGI was good/terrible. The 2D/3D effects were great the miniature doctor was fecking shite.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 18, 2014)

What a great episode! Baddies from another dimension, experimenting on us, flattening us. I guess that explains the Doctor's hairstyle going all short and flat for a bit and then back to bouffant...


----------



## 8den (Oct 18, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> What a great episode! Baddies from another dimension, experimenting on us, flattening us. I guess that explains the Doctor's hairstyle going all short and flat for a bit and then back to bouffant...



Why does the Doctor dress like a elderly Mod?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 18, 2014)

That was ok. About average for this season so far. Getting bored of the Missy stuff. These hints are somewhat tedious. Who is she? What is she? Why is she? Yeah ok, I can wait.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 18, 2014)

8den said:


> Why does the Doctor dress like a elderly Mod?


why did tennant's doctor dress like Jarvis cocker?  they have to have a look.  It has to be iconic and to an extent reflect that particular doctor's personality.  Capaldi's cozzie is generally sharp edged, with a hint of the magician and a dash of cool.  That'll do.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2014)

8den said:


> Why does the Doctor dress like a elderly Mod?




because all mods are elderly now, its verisimilitude


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2014)

that 'I was a good Doctor' 'good has nothing to do with it' exchange was an encapsulation of the whole subplot imo

am I a good man.

totally didn't care about the end bit, did the lady say 'so glad I chose you clara'?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> that 'I was a good Doctor' 'good has nothing to do with it' exchange was an encapsulation of the whole subplot imo
> 
> am I a good man.
> 
> totally didn't care about the end bit, did the lady say 'so glad I chose you clara'?


i believe she did.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2014)

hmm. With bad wolf we had loads of subtle stuff dropped within the main story. At the moment the over arching plot seems to be 'stick 3 mins of sinister brolly woman in at the end, roll credits'


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> hmm. With bad wolf we had loads of subtle stuff dropped within the main story. At the moment the over arching plot seems to be 'stick 3 mins of sinister brolly woman in at the end, roll credits'


but better than the rest of moffatt's story arcs.   positively restrained by comparison.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> but better than the rest of moffatt's story arcs.   positively restrained by comparison.




maybe capaldi had a word. We've all seen him having a word in the thick of it, I wouldn't be suprised if he isn't basically running the whole show now


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2014)

I was hoping the grumpy old bloke would get run over by a train at the end but he didn't


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> I was hoping the grumpy old bloke would get run over by a train at the end but he didn't




everyone always mentions the sonic as a plot solving device but the psychic paper gets a free pass (lol). And yet it failed on him. Because psychic paper only works for plot reasons.


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 18, 2014)

I thought that was really good.  Clara jumping into the Doctor's shoes and then feeling the weight of them, original and unsettling baddies, twodis.

When Clara and Rigsy jumped on the swinging chair and went through the window I was shouting "That's what I said to do!"


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> everyone always mentions the sonic as a plot solving device but the psychic paper gets a free pass (lol). And yet it failed on him. Because psychic paper only works for plot reasons.



It didn't work because the man had no imagination.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> totally didn't care about the end bit, did the lady say 'so glad I chose you clara'?



Bad guys are a lot less scary if they have ipads. People with ipads aren't scary, they're just sad.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 19, 2014)

I don't know who played unpleasant asbo-supervisor-man but he was brilliant.  I've seen him in other stuff before, he's really good and has a face like Admiral Adama, it's seen a hell of a lot of life.

ETA the whole running through railway tunnels reminded me a lot of the Web of Fear 2nd doctor "lost" story that reappeared last year (it was really good, first appearance of the Brigadier).


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> I thought that was really good.  Clara jumping into the Doctor's shoes and then feeling the weight of them, original and unsettling baddies, twodis.
> 
> When Clara and Rigsy jumped on the swinging chair and went through the window I was shouting "That's what I said to do!"




that bit produced an intersting phone convo  grunting


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 19, 2014)

an excellent episode again


----------



## prunus (Oct 19, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> It didn't work because the man had no imagination.



Yes, that bit made me laugh. Sour officious council jobsworth has no imagination at all so psychic paper doesn't work


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 19, 2014)

My favourite episode of the series, by a long shot. Had me up all night reading Flatland and generally having a crisis about my own dimensions. I should stop watching Dr Who whilst high as a kite...


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Oct 19, 2014)

I'd like a mini tardis after that. ....


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> My favourite episode of the series, by a long shot. Had me up all night reading Flatland and generally having a crisis about my own dimensions. I should stop watching Dr Who whilst high as a kite...



IMO Doctor Who is designed to appeal to children and very stoned adults.


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 19, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> IMO Doctor Who is designed to appeal to children and very stoned adults.


I'm somewhere inbetween. A very stoned man boy.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 19, 2014)

prunus said:


> Yes, that bit made me laugh. Sour officious council jobsworth has no imagination at all so psychic paper doesn't work [/QUOTE//]
> Seemed like a rehash of a character from the terrible fear her with added spite. At least we know now Missy isn't Clara. Woman from the shop I guess and possibly the person who arranged for Gus/ called on Gus's behalf at the end of the Big Bang.


----------



## belboid (Oct 19, 2014)

I think I am going to have to watch this one again when I'm sober.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> I'd like a mini tardis after that. ....




I've got one. It used to hold the game cards from my Doctor Who boardgame. Yes I am that sad.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

I keep loose rizla in it


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got one. It used to hold the game cards from my Doctor Who boardgame. Yes I am that sad.


I got one for £2.50 from a charity shop last year


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

ruffneck23 said:


> I got one for £2.50 from a charity shop last year




I also have a tardis keyring....which is flat!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Isn't that kind of statement the better for at least some form of quote?
> 
> Can't be worse than the Dr's recent form, asking black children if they have any shoplifting to be doing or insisting that black teachers must be involved only in physical education.
> 
> Like Father Ted - 'I hear you're a racist now Dr?'



It wasn't due to Danny being black that The Doctor keeps calling him P.E. It's because of the "soldiers become P.E. teachers" trope.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 19, 2014)

PursuedByBears said:


> I don't know who played unpleasant asbo-supervisor-man but he was brilliant.  I've seen him in other stuff before, he's really good and has a face like Admiral Adama, it's seen a hell of a lot of life.



Christopher Fairbank, from Auf Widersehen Pet, but he's been in tons of other stuff.

The Addams Family bit is one of the most epic things in the history of Who.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 19, 2014)

I liked the Mary Poppins bit of Clara bringing the lump hammer out of her bag too


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2014)

Some quality Bristol accents as well.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 19, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> It wasn't due to Danny being black that The Doctor keeps calling him P.E. It's because of the "soldiers become P.E. teachers" trope.



I know and I don't believe anything was intended by it. 

Sailing close again last night with the initial assumptions of stupidity about the Grafitti artist based on nothing more than a look at him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

as MOTW goes this weeks one is the best of the series so far. Sergeant bash was just a bit shit.

second best so far is the one that caved peoples heads in.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> I know and I don't believe anything was intended by it.
> 
> Sailing close again last night with the initial assumptions of stupidity about the Grafitti artist based on nothing more than a look at him.



Actually, I thought they played the whole "is it vandalism, or is it art?" question pretty well, with the vandalism proponent being such a Jobsworth wankshaft.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Actually, I thought they played the whole "is it vandalism, or is it art?" question pretty well, with the vandalism proponent being such a Jobsworth wankshaft.




and of course, the day was saved by the graff.

as the day was saved when Mr Pink backflipped over sgnt bash

confounding in both cases the Doctors mistrust of the characters


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> and of course, the day was saved by the graff.
> 
> as the day was saved when Mr Pink backflipped over sgnt bash
> 
> confounding in both cases the Doctors mistrust of the characters



Yup.

Talking of mistrust, I had a horrible moment of suspicion when whats-her-face said "I chose you well" about Clara, and prayed "please don't let whats-her-face be an evil future incarnation of The Doctor, complete with "unique" dress sense!"


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 19, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yup.
> 
> Talking of mistrust, I had a horrible moment of suspicion when whats-her-face said "I chose you well" about Clara, and prayed "please don't let whats-her-face be an evil future incarnation of The Doctor, complete with "unique" dress sense!"


She (Clara) is part of the army that's being carved out to fight against The Doctor in the final episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> She (Clara) is part of the army that's being carved out to fight against The Doctor in the final episode.




might be something in that- the doc having to overcome his antipathy towards soldiers because he's going to need an opposing army


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 19, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Actually, I thought they played the whole "is it vandalism, or is it art?" question pretty well, with the vandalism proponent being such a Jobsworth wankshaft.



The Jobsworth was a terrible stereotype beamed in from the 1950's/60's. Pure 'On the Buses'.


----------



## Mr Moose (Oct 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> might be something in that- the doc having to overcome his antipathy towards soldiers because he's going to need an opposing army



Seems unlikely as she is very pretty and the idea of her being on the wrong side goes against everything I understand about television as a medium.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 19, 2014)

Mr Moose said:


> Seems unlikely as she is very pretty and the idea of her being on the wrong side goes against everything I understand about television as a medium.


She'll obviously come back from the dark side at the end


----------



## fogbat (Oct 19, 2014)

Not sure if costume error, red herring, or deliberate, but the Doc was wearing a wedding ring for a while last night.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 19, 2014)

Clara will go bad but Danny will end up on the Doctors team being the sergeant to his officer and luring Clara back on side.


----------



## binka (Oct 19, 2014)

im enjoying this series more than any previous who. last night's looked really good too - didn't look like cheap british tv shit


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Oct 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I also have a tardis keyring....which is flat!



From a two dimensional dimension no doubt?


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 19, 2014)

fogbat said:


> Not sure if costume error, red herring, or deliberate, but the Doc was wearing a wedding ring for a while last night.


ooh, really?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

I WANT MOLLY FLANDERS TO COME BACK

seeing Alex Kingston paired up with matt smith (my age) pushed all kinds of buttons with me


----------



## dessiato (Oct 19, 2014)

Only managed to watch the last two episodes today. I enjoyed them both. Clara was seriously good in the second and quite beautiful in the first. I'd like Skinner to turn up from time to time, a bit like Rory's dad did. Overall I'm still enjoying the series.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 19, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yup.
> 
> Talking of mistrust, I had a horrible moment of suspicion when whats-her-face said "I chose you well" about Clara, and prayed "please don't let whats-her-face be an evil future incarnation of The Doctor, complete with "unique" dress sense!"



Oh god.

If she is, then Moffat can say "look, there's your female doctor, now shut the fuck up."

NO NO NO NO NO.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 19, 2014)

fogbat said:


> Not sure if costume error, red herring, or deliberate, but the Doc was wearing a wedding ring for a while last night.



He wears it every episode. It's Capaldi's wedding ring and he refuses to take it off.

Edit: actually, he wears his own wedding ring 'under' the ring in DW. The DW ring is a specially moulded one there to hide his normal one, which he refuses to remove.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

aww thats actually so sweet


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 19, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> He wears it every episode. He wears it in every show he does apparently. It's Capaldi's wedding ring and he refuses to take it off.


really?  that's... that's incredibly romantic and I love him for it - but having been an actor and being a teacher of acting... well it's quite shocking.  There are lots of incredibly 'important' reasons related to what acting actually is as a process, that render that a very strange decision.

of course - he's an amazing actor, so that shows how much bloody Stanislavski knows (knew)... but it is shocking.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2014)

he's got some fearsom knuckles as well, would likely take an oxy-acyletine torch to get it off lol


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 19, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> really?  that's... that's incredibly romantic and I love him for it - but having been an actor and being a teacher of acting... well it's quite shocking.  There are lots of incredibly 'important' reasons related to what acting actually is as a process, that render that a very strange decision.
> 
> of course - he's an amazing actor, so that shows how much bloody Stanislavski knows (knew)... but it is shocking.



I edited to remove the bit about him doing it all the time. I read an article that suggested as much a few months ago, but I think they got it wrong. I just found an interview where he said he did it during Who because of the long, busy filming schedule, and he didn't want to lose it if he kept taking it off. Looking at pictures of him from other things, seems like he has taken it off before.


----------



## spanglechick (Oct 19, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I edited to remove the bit about him doing it all the time. I read an article that suggested as much a few months ago, but I think they got it wrong. I just found an interview where he said he did it during Who because of the long, busy filming schedule, and he didn't want to lose it if he kept taking it off. Looking at pictures of him from other things, seems like he has taken it off before.


ahh, ok.


----------



## Augie March (Oct 19, 2014)

I just imagined last night's episode was directed by Jan Svankmajer and it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen.


----------



## Cloo (Oct 19, 2014)

Effects people seemed to have had fun with the CG challenges thrown up by the concept. One of my favourite episodes so far this series.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (Oct 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> he's got some fearsom knuckles as well, would likely take an oxy-acyletine torch to get it off lol



That's what I was thinking too...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 19, 2014)

That was ace. Original, funny, bizarre, gripping, on the side of da kidz agasint the man and  proper scary monsters as well. A whole generation of children are going traumatised  by this for the rest of their lives = which is exactly how dr who should be. And the whole 'sounds like shes on the job' phone call to teacher boy was very cheeky and hilarious.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 19, 2014)

Good episode, back to normal.

And what was with the welcome to paradise lady at the end huh?  My Clara?


----------



## 8115 (Oct 19, 2014)

I reckon Clara is going to go bad.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 19, 2014)

Cloo said:


> Effects people seemed to have had fun with the CG challenges thrown up by the concept. One of my favourite episodes so far this series.


 Star Trek did the whole two dimensional aliens thing in an episode. They decided the best thing to do with the concept was to have counselor Troi lose her powers, cry for twenty minutes and chat to Whoopi Goldberg for a bit.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 20, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I also have a tardis keyring....which is flat!


me too


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 20, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> might be something in that- the doc having to overcome his antipathy towards soldiers because he's going to need an opposing army


I'd love to see K9 come back for the apocalypse.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 20, 2014)

Post apocalypse who...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 20, 2014)

PursuedByBears said:


> I don't know who played unpleasant asbo-supervisor-man but he was brilliant.  I've seen him in other stuff before, he's really good and has a face like Admiral Adama, it's seen a hell of a lot of life.



I'm sure he was born with that weathered look, as I rememnber him looking just like that 30 years ago in Aufwiedersen Pet.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2014)

not just weatherbeaten, weather took him outside and kicked seven shades of shit out of him


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 20, 2014)

There was a bit in this where they said "Killer graffiti...I'll have to find a better name than that". Then at the end, the Doctor said something about naming them, but it was drowned out by the background music.

Did anyone catch what he called them?


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 20, 2014)

Sounded like boneless.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 20, 2014)

yeah i think its quoted as Boneless


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 20, 2014)

Killer Graffiti sounds better


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2014)

they'll be back but with diminishing returns, just like the weping angels. Blink was proper classic who but they had to bring them back and make them shitter


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 20, 2014)

Checked the wiki it is Boneless. Need a name for the merchandising.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 20, 2014)

Might be my favourite episode of this series. I was pissing myself at the Adams Family bit.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 20, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> Checked the wiki it is Boneless. Need a name for the merchandising.



Doctor Who should team up with KFC for a happy-meal type thing.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2014)

I fancy a chicken kiev now


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 20, 2014)

I want a Zinger Tower.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Oct 20, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> I want a Zinger Tower.


and crack wings, always a great crunchy pile of crack wings!


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 20, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> not just weatherbeaten, weather took him outside and kicked seven shades of shit out of him



So did Batman, way back


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> That was ace. Original, funny, bizarre, gripping, on the side of da kidz agasint the man and  proper scary monsters as well. A whole generation of children are going traumatised  by this for the rest of their lives = which is exactly how dr who should be. And the whole 'sounds like shes on the job' phone call to teacher boy was very cheeky and hilarious.



Loved the train driver, too - "I've always wanted to ram something!"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> Sounded like boneless.



Yup. He said "I name you The Boneless".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Post apocalypse who...


Pity he's doing an Alvin Stardust impersonation with the hands.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 20, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Pity he's doing an Alvin Stardust impersonation with the hands.




Killer Graffiti is a much better name


----------



## binka (Oct 20, 2014)

Wrt thw wedding ring... well he did get married


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> He wears it every episode. It's Capaldi's wedding ring and he refuses to take it off.
> 
> Edit: actually, he wears his own wedding ring 'under' the ring in DW. The DW ring is a specially moulded one there to hide his normal one, which he refuses to remove.


indeed, it looks almost pretty


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 21, 2014)

watched it again with ms kak and was even more impressed. My only real gripe is that this could definitely have been a 2-parter - there was a lot of drama stuffed into 45 mins - the suspense of trying to work out what the fuck was going on deserved to be more drawn out.
Dr Who spod continuity inconsistency - "it takes someone with staggeringly little imagination to be immune to psychic paper" - but in series 3 of the reboot, the not notably unimaginative William Shakespere was unaffected by psychic paper. 

Anyhoo - best story so far - and Capaldi's dr who is so excellent - troubled, ambiguous, slightly scary but hugely charismatic and authoritative - he is really showing up what was wrong with the previous two incarnations - when he does his 'i am the doctor - FEAR ME!' shtick with malign alien types he is utterly convincing in exactly the way the others weren't - mainly cos they were too cuddly and he is anything but.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Pity he's doing an Alvin Stardust impersonation with the hands.




RIP.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 23, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> RIP.



I'm feeling quite guilty, like invoking the Stardust hands killed him off.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm feeling quite guilty, like invoking the Stardust hands killed him off.


I know how you feel, whenever I mention a jazz legend on here...


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 25, 2014)

No idea what that was about.

Don't really understand why, when offered a chance to escape (as they saw it) the earth's destruction, Clara loses the plot. So instead of save a group of children, andher boyfriend, she decides 'fuck it, i'll burn'.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2014)

I really rather enjoyed that episode. I agree that it seemed implausible that Clara would pass up the opportunity to save the kids. Surely having them pine for their parents on a nice world where they can integrate and live out their lives is preferable to them dying in a horrific, burninating kind of way? Kids who lose their parents through cancer or car crashes or taking their own lives or whatever have to deal with it. It was a strange old thing to write in there. 

I can understand it from a dramatic point of view as a narrative device to be able to address a few things at once: the feeling of all hope lost, resigned to your fate, only for it to turn out to be okay after all; reminding us that the doctor is the last (sort of) of his kind and that's a shitty thing to have to deal with; making Clara's affection for Danny more real; etc. But those kinds of narrative devices only really work when they stay true to the characters, and what we've been led to believe is possible from those characters. Discordance is good, but sometimes, in cases like this, it felt rather inconceivable.

Other than that though (which is something I can easily get past), I did really quite like the episode.

The 'Miss' stuff at Clara suddenly had me go *lightbulb* "Miss/Missy, so _that's_ why the emphasis on her being a teacher this series." But I'm not so certain, tbh. I'm still rather confused as to the Missy stuff. Many theories half-work, but they all have their "but what about" clauses. I thought Missy's little 10 seconds of screentime at the end (not the trailer for next week) was pretty weaksauce, tbh. It feels rather predictable for her to be showing up nearly every week with a bit of an ominous "I'm saying something cryptic, I bet you wish you knew who/what I was, lol" thing. It was good at first, but now it's a bit boring. I'd rather it was a bit more drawn out, with some proper interesting stuff in there, or not done at all. Or, perhaps, more cryptic where we don't even see her but see other things (a la Bad Wolf). As it stands, it's becoming a bit like Moffat's big fucking crack that he needed to pan the camera towards at the end of every episode like a big neon sign that said "THIS IS SO SUPER IMPORTANT YOU GUISE AND I'M REALLY CLEVER."

Anyway, still looking forward to the finale, but not especially because he's led into it very well. Just cuz I like finales.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2014)

Also nice use of the whole ecological thing. It certainly worked better than the seemingly pro-life/anti-choice moralising in the moon episode.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2014)

Thinking about it, we've seen a reversal of sorts during the course of the series, where Clara has become more doctor-like (with her literally becoming the doctor last week), and the doctor becoming more what we'd expect of the companions (and previous doctors) -- trying to save people.

Clara's decision to have the kids die felt like a continuation of that reversal.

I think this will be important.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2014)

So, regarding Missy, I reckon she's 'chosen' Clara in the sense that of all the companions the doctor has had over the years, she's picked Clara for some reason, and she's going to use her to channel herself through her and get rid of the doctor. For what ends, I don't know. The "Scottish accent, I think I'll keep it" comment is a sticking point here. Maybe she intends to _become_ the doctor once she's got him out of the way and Clara is her way to make that happen?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2014)

Oh, and Clara not wanting the kids to go through losing their parents echoes her losing hers I guess. But she turned out okay, didn't she.

Edit: wait, did she lose her parents or not? I can't remember. I just remember something about that damn leaf, the power of memory, and a load of bullshit.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 25, 2014)

Or she is Clara. Evil Clara with a goatee from the mirror universe


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2014)

The "she is evil Clara" theory was fun (not) for a while, but the "I chose you well" comment about her from Missy then makes no sense.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 25, 2014)

I'd like it if she was an ambiguous, morally-grey kind of villain.

Being the guardian of the nethersphere, she sees day after day all the people the doctor fails to save. He's a pretty shit doctor if you look at it that way.

"Am I a good man?"

"I think you try to be, and I think that's probably the point."

Well, what's the point of trying if you can't save people?

Maybe Missy wants to replace the doctor because she thinks he's fucking shit at it all, and she could do a better job? And she has become all bitter and twisted and is coming at it from the wrong direction and ends up being an evil old baddie in the process.

I like that kind of morally grey character.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 25, 2014)

Good episode only spoiled by the little girl's sister reappearing at the end for no fucking reason. Had she been lost in that shrub for the last year or what?


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 25, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Good episode only spoiled by the little girl's sister reappearing at the end for no fucking reason. Had she been lost in that shrub for the last year or what?


She got the phone message.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 25, 2014)

Where the fuck were the several million other Londoners?

That was rubbish.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 25, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Where the fuck were the several million other Londoners?
> 
> That was rubbish.



They were all on the tube and they couldn't get out on account of trees blocking the exits. Also they were all being told to stay in their homes.

How far is London Zoo from Tafalgar Square?


----------



## T & P (Oct 26, 2014)

That was shite.

Just as it looked the series was picking up, another mediocre episode. Shame really, this series will likely not be remembered fondly, and that'll be unfair on the actors- the fault has chiefly been with the storylines.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 26, 2014)

I liked it.  Doctor Who traditionally has not made a whole lot of sense.  Peter Capaldi is v v good and Jenna Coleman is a great companion.  Not as amazing as the last two weeks but very pretty.


----------



## Helen Back (Oct 26, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> ... like a big neon sign that said "THIS IS SO SUPER IMPORTANT YOU *GUISE* AND I'M REALLY CLEVER."



It's "guys", not "guise".


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 26, 2014)

Helen Back said:


> It's "guys", not "guise".



'tis "internet speak"


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 26, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> The "she is evil Clara" theory was fun (not) for a while, but the "I chose you well" comment about her from Missy then makes no sense.


let us hope the finale makes sense and resolves.

For a change.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 26, 2014)

How does wood and oxygen protect against solar fire?


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 26, 2014)

I always had oxygen down as being flammable... Also, if so much oxygen had been pumped into the atmosphere by the trees, surely the composition of the air we breath would have changed and become toxic to us humans? A good episode but required even more suspension of disbelief than the Moon being a fecking, gigantic, fuck off xeno-insect egg.

Edit: Also, realistically, how many trees _could _have been sprayed with the defoliant in the time frame provided? Enough to prevent the ''airbag'' effect of all the trees? The concept of the episode was fantastic but it felt far, far too rushed to work properly. To me it was a two part episode they (attempted) to cram into the one and it didn't quite work...


----------



## susie12 (Oct 26, 2014)

I find Clara a really dull character.  The drama between her and the Doc seems to be shoehorned in to provide, well, drama, but is pointless really, and her boyfriend is equally dull but has a nasty, passive aggressive controlling side.  They'll probably be very happy together after she leaves the Tardis which hopefully will be soon.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 26, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> Also, if so much oxygen had been pumped into the atmosphere by the trees, surely the composition of the air we breath would have changed and become toxic to us humans?



Oxygen is actually quite good for you.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 26, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Oxygen is actually quite good for you.


Anything, in the right concentration, is toxic. True of water, so imagine it's true of oxygen too.

Plus, you'd get well high first.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 26, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> I always had oxygen down as being flammable... Also, if so much oxygen had been pumped into the atmosphere by the trees, surely the composition of the air we breath would have changed and become toxic to us humans? A good episode but required even more suspension of disbelief than the Moon being a fecking, gigantic, fuck off xeno-insect egg.
> 
> Edit: Also, realistically, how many trees _could _have been sprayed with the defoliant in the time frame provided? Enough to prevent the ''airbag'' effect of all the trees? The concept of the episode was fantastic but it felt far, far too rushed to work properly. To me it was a two part episode they (attempted) to cram into the one and it didn't quite work...


Why would the world's nations listen to a maverick broadcast made by a 6 year old kid? Experienced climate scientists are already shunned by the powers that be. 

This episode isn't as enjoyable as the speculation about the reality of the situation! 

How does a broadcast even get heard when the solar flare would have wiped out all satellite networks and electronic systems, plunging the world back into the dark ages?

How did the sister get rescued and why was she literally hiding in the bush outside her house?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> How does wood and oxygen protect against solar fire?



Supposedly all the excess oxygen was going to burn away, thus dissipating the energy of the solar flare; but oxygen doesn't burn as such. Combustion is basically exothermic oxidation of a fuel source, oxygen is required for the reaction but you also need fuel. Fuel like a planet full of trees for example. Given that all that wood will release lots more energy when provided with the activation energy needed for combustion, and an increased concentration of oxygen will increase the rate of the reaction, I'd say filling up the planet with wood and oxygen would be the worst possible way to dissipate thermal energy.

Maybe the trees were somehow producing lots of extra ozone (an allotrope of oxygen) to absorb more EM-spectrum radiation, but ozone is highly toxic so producing it at ground level would be problematic.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 26, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> I always had oxygen down as being flammable... Also, if so much oxygen had been pumped into the atmosphere by the trees, surely the composition of the air we breath would have changed and become toxic to us humans? A good episode but required even more suspension of disbelief than the Moon being a fecking, gigantic, fuck off xeno-insect egg.
> 
> Edit: Also, realistically, how many trees _could _have been sprayed with the defoliant in the time frame provided? Enough to prevent the ''airbag'' effect of all the trees? The concept of the episode was fantastic but it felt far, far too rushed to work properly. To me it was a two part episode they (attempted) to cram into the one and it didn't quite work...


Surely pumping fire into super oxygenated air would have been catastrophic?

Because...magic trees!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 26, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Supposedly all the excess oxygen was going to burn away, thus dissipating the energy of the solar flare; but oxygen doesn't burn as such. Combustion is basically exothermic oxidation of a fuel source, oxygen is required for the reaction but you also need fuel. Fuel like a planet full of trees for example. Given that all that wood will release lots more energy when provided with the activation energy needed for combustion, and an increased concentration of oxygen will increase the rate of the reaction, I'd say filling up the planet with wood and oxygen would be the worst possible way to dissipate thermal energy.
> 
> Maybe the trees were somehow producing lots of extra ozone (an allotrope of oxygen) to absorb more EM-spectrum radiation, but ozone is highly toxic so producing it at ground level would be problematic.


Burning that amoutn of wood would turn the atmosphere, what's left of it, into a greenhouse with all the carbon?

A scientifically realistic version of that story would have been a million times better!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 26, 2014)

It is admittedly shaky at best, but weren't the leaves fireproof, so the oxygen burns up the solar flare/energy but the canopy of leaves protects everyone underneath it?

Which does of course beg the question, why do you need the oxygen if the leaves will protect you...?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> How did the sister get rescued and why was she literally hiding in the bush outside her house?



It seems like she'd run away but was convinced to come back by the little girl's phone message. She can't have been far away though if she managed to come home, presumably on foot, through a massive scary forest, in the space of maybe half an hour. 

I did like the idea of just plonking a taxi, some traffic lights and a phone box in some woodland and thus creating 'london taken over by trees'. That's proper old school Doctor Who production values.


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 26, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> I always had oxygen down as being flammable... Also, if so much oxygen had been pumped into the atmosphere by the trees, surely the composition of the air we breath would have changed and become toxic to us humans? A good episode but required even more suspension of disbelief than the Moon being a fecking, gigantic, fuck off xeno-insect egg.
> 
> Edit: Also, realistically, how many trees _could _have been sprayed with the defoliant in the time frame provided? Enough to prevent the ''airbag'' effect of all the trees? The concept of the episode was fantastic but it felt far, far too rushed to work properly. To me it was a two part episode they (attempted) to cram into the one and it didn't quite work...


 It was pumped into the upper atmosphere by plot magics so it would burn up there rendering the flare harmless. A better question is how many generations of birth defects is the widespread use of defoliants on populated areas going to leave in its wake.


----------



## binka (Oct 26, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> To me it was a two part episode they (attempted) to cram into the one and it didn't quite work...


it was a terrible story so im glad they didn't stretch it out anymore.

couple of duff episodes this series however they are still enjoyable to watch because of capaldi


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 26, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> It is admittedly shaky at best, but weren't the leaves fireproof, so the oxygen burns up the solar flare/energy but the canopy of leaves protects everyone underneath it?
> 
> Which does of course beg the question, why do you need the oxygen if the leaves will protect you...?



When those blokes tried to burn the trees, apparently they didn't burn because they were withholding oxygen. Trees can't really do that but let's stick with it anyway. When it comes to saving the whole planet from getting burnt up however, the trees' plan is to make loads _more_ oxygen to somehow cushion the Earth against the solar flare. I suppose they couldn't suck up all the oxygen from the atmosphere, because doing so would kill everything.

There's also the small matter of CO2. That many trees all photosynthesising would soak up all the CO2 in the atmosphere pretty quickly, in fact they'd have to produce oxygen. Human respiratory systems need CO2 to function properly, it's what tells us when we need to breathe. An atmosphere with no CO2 in it would be deadly. We'd all suffocate in oxygen-saturated air, perhaps using our last moments to contemplate the irony of that.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 26, 2014)

Clara should be killed by the Timelords, the way Peri was in Trial of a Timelord ("the crime is fashion, doctor - and this court finds you guilty!")

I don't agree that Danny is manipulative, he's just a thinly developed plot device. Plus she trets him like crap - like Amy did. It's the same new Who feisty female formula.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 26, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> It was pumped into the upper atmosphere by plot magics so it would burn up there rendering the flare harmless. A better question is how many generations of birth defects is the widespread use of defoliants on populated areas going to leave in its wake.


Perhaps that's where we get legends of Trolls and Ogres from! 

If this forest defence system is only remembered in the collective unconsciousness as legend and myth, then perhaps that explains myth creatures.

Like a weird Shadowrun.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 26, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> A scientifically realistic version of that story would have been a million times better!



I don't think there is a realistic explanation for loads of trees growing everwhere at once, but they could have nodded in the direction of actual science. That's how good sci-fi works, instead of everything happening by magic you take a real scientific principle and bend it round a bit to justify something impossible. Using oxygen to fireproof something just flies in the face of basic secondary-school science.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 26, 2014)

Dr Who doesn't tell stories anymore anyway. It's just a bizarre premise filtered through a modern BBC lens with some wacky dialog. Capaldi having to carry this shit is just embarassing.


----------



## binka (Oct 26, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't think there is a realistic explanation for loads of trees growing everwhere at once, but they could have nodded in the direction of actual science. That's how good sci-fi works, instead of everything happening by magic you take a real scientific principle and bend it round a bit to justify something impossible. Using oxygen to fireproof something just flies in the face of basic secondary-school science.


i don't really want to rewatch the episode but i suppose they showed the trees witholding oxygen. perhaps they meant that after the solar flare had burned off the earth's atmosphere the trees would release the oxygen to replace that which was lost? no im not satisfied with that answer either!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 26, 2014)

weakest episode of this series, and the least enjoyable (which isn't always the same thing). 

Hey ho, the rest have been great so far though


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 26, 2014)

Targeted more at kids, this one.  There needs to be a balance.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2014)

I liked it. Last week was hard to follow. This was merely good. 

As for sense, none of it makes sense.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 26, 2014)

very meh i thought. London covered in trees was cool - thought it was going to be all post apocalyptic - but it descended into mushy silliness. Not scary, no dramatic tension, and - like the moon egg - not enough realism to make the fantasy credible. And this time the sparky dialouge and capaldi's charisma weren't  enough to save the story.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 26, 2014)

Where are we at now... 3 more episodes to the end of the season? A shaky start is one thing but we're almost a full season into Capaldi's tenure and so far, IMHO, we've not seen a single episode worthy of the Doctor Who title.


----------



## Santino (Oct 26, 2014)

How does that bloke travel through time?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 26, 2014)

Santino said:


> How does that bloke travel through time?


He has a DeLorean


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Where are we at now... 3 more episodes to the end of the season? A shaky start is one thing but we're almost a full season into Capaldi's tenure and so far, IMHO, we've not seen a single episode worthy of the Doctor Who title.




total bollocks, two quid word coming out of a 50p mouth. Those monsters from flatland were 100% \who gold. If you don't agree you are not a real who fan


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 26, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> total bollocks, two quid word coming out of a 50p mouth. Those monsters from flatland were 100% \who gold. If you don't agree you are not a real who fan



Blow-ins telling real Who fans how to be Who fans... You're too young to be a real Who fan... you're like a Who Hipster


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Blow-ins telling real Who fans how to be Who fans... You're too young to be a real Who fan... you're like a Who Hipster


nonsense, \i'm old enough to have caught the bug watching sylvester mcoy on UK gold as a young teen. I kept the faith through the dark years- where were you? wanking over babylon 5 obviously


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2014)

anyways I just watched the latest episode and it was great. I particularly enjoyed more mr pink solving immediate perils (i'm on team mr pink) and the little girl speaking with the voice of the forrest

I didn't like claras line 'they're not really special and gifted I just tell them that' horrible cunts.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 26, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> nonsense, \i'm old enough to have caught the bug watching sylvester mcoy on UK gold as a young teen. I kept the faith through the dark years- where were you? wanking over babylon 5 obviously


I remember being excited watching Jon Pertwee on our first colour TV, and amazed at how less scary everything looked in colour... back when Daleks and Quatermass and the pit were scary things.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2014)

oh and if none of you noticed, in the trail for next weeks episode we saw a young woman having a puff from her inhaler. She's the same woman from the 50th anniversary episode, the one who wore a big tom baker scarf.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 26, 2014)

reminded me why i don't teach kids

also  why does this season of who revel in bad science

it eschews classic technobabble  for   bad science

have some new  fancy type of  space radiation  that the trees absorb	rather  than  fightig fire with oxygen


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 26, 2014)

I just hope Clara isn't some timey wimey impossible person second cousin twice removed from the vortex. After all the improvement this season, I will be cross.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 26, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> oh and if none of you noticed, in the trail for next weeks episode we saw a young woman having a puff from her inhaler. She's the same woman from the 50th anniversary episode, the one who wore a big tom baker scarf.



Works for Unit with Kate Stewart?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Works for Unit with Kate Stewart?




thats her, was involved in negotiations with the vervoids and if you remember quite possibly was one. There was a wink.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 26, 2014)

do I mean vervoids? the xenomorph ones that look like sex toys


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 26, 2014)

Zygons.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> do I mean vervoids? the xenomorph ones that look like sex toys









Dimpled for extra stimulation .....


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 27, 2014)

I thought inhaler woman was great. Can't wait to see her back again.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 27, 2014)

I've enjoyed the series so far and have found the reworking of the storylines intriguing and while I've liked some episodes better than others there has not been one dud so far,  I'm a happy Who bunny.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 27, 2014)

I'm enjoying it too on the whole.  I think Capaldi's a great improvement on the last two, and there've been many good walk-on parts this time round. 

But it feels frustratingly like it could have beenmuch better than it is.  Lots of episodes have started with a premise with great potential - mythical creature loose on a train, planet suffocated by woodland overnight, whatever - but then fritter away so much time on the repetitive but now obligatory companion's-relationship-troubles subplot* that the episode doesn't have time to do more than whimper out a quick 'oh, look, everything's magically fine again' before we're whisked off for more tedious gurning from Michelle Gomez.

*It's not that I want the sexist old 'running around screaming' model back - I'm happy for the companion to do some of the real work of an episode - but do I have to pretend to care about their 'real lives'? And having said that, there is a purpose in having _someone _running around screaming, to signal to our brains that Something Scary is Happening.  If all the companion ever does is gaze calmly out of the open door of the Tardis while it floats in space above a planet Earth about to be engulfed in a massive fireball, it takes away some of the sense of jeopardy, doesn't it?  I felt quite relieved when little Maebh screamed and ran away from the wolves - at least someone's behaving like a normal person probably would here.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 27, 2014)

susie12 said:


> I find Clara a really dull character.  The drama between her and the Doc seems to be shoehorned in to provide, well, drama, but is pointless really, and her boyfriend is equally dull but has a nasty, passive aggressive controlling side.  They'll probably be very happy together after she leaves the Tardis which hopefully will be soon.


The boyfriend is a terrible character, hopefully he'll disappear soon.


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2014)

A decent enough episode, despite the couple of glaring plot holes. Obviously the oxygen thing made no sense whatsoever, and why one magic tree would hang around just to hide a runaway teenager, I don't know. Ohh, and the bit with the wolves and the tiger was rubbish too. But it was a good setup, and the Doc got some great lines.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2014)

redsquirrel said:


> The boyfriend is a terrible character, hopefully he'll disappear soon.




how can you hate Mr Pink? he's named after someone from resevoir dogs, he does amazing backflips and he cunts the doctor off occaisonally.


----------



## susie12 (Oct 27, 2014)

He's dull and he's always asking her where she's been.  It's obvious where she's been.  I don't hate him, but I do think he's totally unnecessary and she could do a lot better.  Mind you, so could he.


----------



## Pingu (Oct 27, 2014)

would have been better (and tbh much much scarier for kids) if the tiger had eaten half of the class. 

despite my moans about lack of any real depth in the plots I am enjoying this series.


----------



## Wilf (Oct 27, 2014)

Capaldi's okay as the Doc, though his character seems to be a reaction to the last one who was more touchy feely. Not sure what his grumpy distant persona would be like if he kept it up for several series.  Must admit whatsisface, the last one, grew on me. Thought he was going to be too young and too posh, but he managed the old fogey in a young body very well. 

Anyroad, this series is fine, but the kids at the school piss me off.  Straight from central casting and pretty much sub-Grange Hill in terms of realism.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2014)

they should have done kidulthood with the tardis?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 27, 2014)

This series has gone a bit sciencey wiencey.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 27, 2014)

its a science fantasy. Fantasy dressed up in science clothes. Star Wars is essentially the same. Moaaning about the technobabble not being the right flavour is a)futile and b) [insult removed]


----------



## Wilf (Oct 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> its a science fantasy. Fantasy dressed up in science clothes. Star Wars is essentially the same. Moaaning about the technobabble not being the right flavour is a)futile and b) [insult removed]


 Well, kinda.  Science fantasy usually requires no more than the broad alignment of an amulet and a bit of belief, sacrifice or whatever (to achieve something world changing or stop the evil).  Once you do that in the clothes of 'science' you at least _invite_ some questions of cause and effect/consistency.  Doesn't mean you can't do science fantasy in a science fiction context, but it does make the whole edifice open to 'yeah, but' questions.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> nonsense, \i'm old enough to have caught the bug watching sylvester mcoy on UK gold as a young teen. I kept the faith through the dark years- where were you? wanking over babylon 5 obviously



One doesn't wank over Babylon 5, one wanks over Ivanova.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 27, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Well, kinda.  Science fantasy usually requires no more than the broad alignment of an amulet and a bit of belief, sacrifice or whatever (to achieve something world changing or stop the evil).  Once you do that in the clothes of 'science' you at least _invite_ some questions of cause and effect/consistency.  Doesn't mean you can't do science fantasy in a science fiction context, but it does make the whole edifice open to 'yeah, but' questions.



I agree - there's only so many times you can go 'ah... but these trees [substitute noun as required] are MAGIC trees' before viewers start to want something with at least a bit of internal consistency.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 27, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> I agree - there's only so many times you can go 'ah... but these trees [substitute noun as required] are MAGIC trees' before viewers start to want something with at least a bit of internal consistency.


If it annoys you, just reverse the polarity.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 27, 2014)

Currently enjoying Baker's swan song, aka Season 18. I think it's my favouritest season. Certainly has high nostalgic value. As a bonus the soundtrack is almost exclusively electronic, not orchestral. The composer favours some lovely major-minor melodies (similar to the Hitchhikers Guide tv show). The title s equence also changes to that which we saw during the Davison years.

Bring back Meglos.


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 27, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> how can you hate Mr Pink? he's named after someone from resevoir dogs, he does amazing backflips and he cunts the doctor off occaisonally.


He's a terrible actor, the whole army bum-licking thing is incredibly annoying and the "romance" between him and Clara is badly done and incredibly tedious.

On the science-fiction/science-fantasy I think there's a clear difference between having nonsense explanations of things like the TARDIS (which the audience can except as a plot conceit) and totally changing the basic science of the universe which people interact with on a day-to-day basis. I mean kids will learn about the fire triangle at school, for a show that was originally made in part to educate kids about science and history it's clunkingly stupid to piss over basic science. (I admit that that intention was left by the way-side longs ago but even so).


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2014)

Interestingly (or not), the Tunguska incident has cropped up in Doctor Who before, when Ace pushes some dude out of the Tardis, and he explodes.  It's only a book tho, so can probably be forgotten about.

And at least he got the year right - when it got a mention in Buffy, Willow said it took place in 1917!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 27, 2014)

belboid said:


> Interestingly (or not), the Tunguska incident has cropped up in Doctor Who before, when Ace pushes some dude out of the Tardis, and he explodes.  It's only a book tho, so can probably be forgotten about.
> 
> And at least he got the year right - when it got a mention in Buffy, Willow said it took place in 1917!



1911 right? That's without googling mind you...


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> 1911 right? That's without googling mind you...


1908, so not far off.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 27, 2014)

Well, now you've settled that, maybe you could clear up once and for all whether Dr Who fans are nerds or not


----------



## susie12 (Oct 27, 2014)

I've had phases with the doc - didn't care for the last one but I love Peter capaldi - I'd like him to get a smarter less attention seeking companion though.  Are we nerds? I don't care.​


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 27, 2014)

No, neither do I, I was just amused by the stereotype-confirming nature of the exchange above me


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 28, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> Well, now you've settled that, maybe you could clear up once and for all whether Dr Who fans are nerds or not


Block transfer computations!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 28, 2014)

susie12 said:


> I've had phases with the doc - didn't care for the last one but I love Peter capaldi - I'd like him to get a smarter less attention seeking companion though.  Are we nerds? I don't care.​


Capaldoctor is great. The stories... Less so


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 28, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Block transfer computations!



For when you maths so hard it takes up space


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 28, 2014)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> For when you maths so hard it takes up space


... and time!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 28, 2014)

well....  spacetime...


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Oct 28, 2014)

I must apologise that I have not read the whole thread but I just have to say - I have not watched Dr Who for years and have started watching just because it's Peter Capaldi and I am having such fun! And I think I am more than a little bit in love with Mr Capaldi. As I think I have been since the early 90s when I saw him in Mr Wakefield's Crusade.

Anyway - as you were.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 29, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> No, neither do I, I was just amused by the stereotype-confirming nature of the exchange above me



Pardon me for taking an interest in world history


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 30, 2014)

the drama channel is showing the William Hartnell story  the Aztecs on Sunday afternoon as well as an adventure in time and space,  not really relevant to series 8 but I thought it worth a heads up as its a freeview channel


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 30, 2014)

also the first time the doctor gets married


----------



## Awesome Wells (Oct 30, 2014)

I'm going out on a limb and will speculate Missy is Amy Pond.

Is her cyber army meant to be fuelled by all the dead people she collects?


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 30, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> the drama channel is showing the William Hartnell story  the Aztecs on Sunday afternoon as well as an adventure in time and space,  not really relevant to series 8 but I thought it worth a heads up as its a freeview channel


Cheers. I never look at that channel. Is it lower down than the Welsh channel? 

What kind of locations does the Aztecs use? As bad as the other Hartnell stuff?


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 31, 2014)

it's channel 20 on my box ,as for locations I've not seen it. didn't start watching until pertwee's last series and have only got a few classic who dvd's, mostly dalek ones.  I'm actually looking forward to it even with adverts


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 31, 2014)

Just watched last Saturday's episode. My god, what a steaming pile. Magic reset bullshit. Even with capaldi, this was utter drivel.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 31, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Works for Unit with Kate Stewart?


There was a mention of unit from pink in this ep. Called the doctor a special unit or something. I can't remember.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 1, 2014)

More shitting magic. 

Boo.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 1, 2014)

Why are things in tanks so scary?

Also, they're not dead


----------



## 8115 (Nov 1, 2014)

Yay! Welcome to paradise!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 1, 2014)

I hope it is a not dead thing


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 1, 2014)

Sorry but....

"You have Wifi in the afterlife?"
"We....have Steve Jobs"

I proper lolled


----------



## 8115 (Nov 1, 2014)

I missed the beginning. How did Danny die?


----------



## 8115 (Nov 1, 2014)

And was Dr Chang in The Hour?


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

8115 said:


> I missed the beginning. How did Danny die?


crossing the road.

is missy the Rani?


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> crossing the road.
> 
> is missy the Rani?


not the rani.   the master.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 1, 2014)

LAME.
I thought for a second it was a mental Romana. With all the 'mistress' stuff.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

If she lasts longer than a couple of episodes, i think she could be an excellent Master.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 1, 2014)

She's sexy in a very wierd way.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 1, 2014)

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about all of that.

Everyone's first guess was that she was the Master. But Moff said he wasn't bringing the Master back. 

I will say, it plays nicely on the sexual tension between Tennant and Simm that the fandom adored and *ahem* encouraged. 

But overall, I'm not sure how I feel about all of that.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

I liked the nod to malcolm tucker in the psychic paper bit.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 1, 2014)

I'd have much preferred it if it were Romana or the Rani I think.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I liked the nod to malcolm tucker in the psychic paper bit.


That was the best bit in what was otherwise....wholly bizarre.

A time lady left at the Gate?

Romana?

Oh, no, it's the Master. Meh.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> LAME.
> I thought for a second it was a mental Romana. With all the 'mistress' stuff.


I was all a-quiver at the possibility, but Moffat choked and we get the Master.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 1, 2014)

"Two hearts."
"And both of them yours."

A million fangirls squee, and revisit their Ten/Master slash.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

8115 said:


> I missed the beginning. How did Danny die?


He was hit with a plot device.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

i quite liked a lot of it.  I'd noticed the teardrop/circles shape on the windows, but seeing both doors together made the 'oooh, cybermen' revalation that was intended.

it was EXTREMELY dark, until the 'plot' became evident - it seemed like Doctor Who was taking on the whole of human religious belief, and then going on to replace it with something enormously upsetting and disturbing...


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

OMG its the female iteration of the master we all spoke about speculatiely last year


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

Just please get a new showrunner ffs.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

the bloke counselling danny seemed to have a bit of the Olly from thick of it to him


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 1, 2014)

They couldn't really use The Rani - she was only in a couple of serials.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 1, 2014)

The 'It was all a dream' bit at the start annoyed me too.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> i quite liked a lot of it.  I'd noticed the teardrop/circles shape on the windows, but seeing both doors together made the 'oooh, cybermen' revalation that was intended.
> 
> it was EXTREMELY dark, until the 'plot' became evident - it seemed like Doctor Who was taking on the whole of human religious belief, and then going on to replace it with something enormously upsetting and disturbing...


I knew it was cybermen, because they're in the trailer that was on youtube (the bit where he runs out of the musuem just before she ways i'm the master). 

So again the BBC shoot themselves in the feet with a massive elephant gun


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> the bloke counselling danny seemed to have a bit of the Olly from thick of it to him


It *was* Chris Addison, surely?!

edit - yes it was.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> the bloke counselling danny seemed to have a bit of the Olly from thick of it to him


I thought he was Ollie from The Thick of it.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

So Danny is going to be a Cyberman and then either heroically save Clara or get rescued and he and she get to ride off into the sunset


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

nice little camera trick where they panned the night city and it was a full inner circle. Like in that film where leonardo di caprio is a dream stalker


----------



## Belushi (Nov 1, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> They couldn't really use The Rani - she was only in a couple of serials.



Why does that mean thy couldn't use her?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 1, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> So again the BBC shoot themselves in the feet with a massive elephant gun



FFS, the Cybermen weren't the big reveal in this!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

8115 said:


> I thought he was Ollie from The Thick of it.




oh good, I just couldn't be sure without specs...


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 1, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Why does that mean thy couldn't use her?



She's hardly an iconic figure from the past that everyone remembers


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 1, 2014)

Fuck you haterz. I loved it.

"Oh look, another drunken Scotsman, I didnt realise there was a game on".

So. So many great lines in tonights episode.

Dont forget - its just a fun TV program kids


----------



## 8115 (Nov 1, 2014)

How many more episodes in this series?


----------



## Belushi (Nov 1, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> She's hardly an iconic figure from the past that everyone remembers



Is there some kind of rule that we can only have iconic figures returning? The master again is just lazy.


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 1, 2014)

8115 said:


> How many more episodes in this series?



One I think


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

this was the penultimate. So expect the Mistress to be defeated by next week. And then on to the seemingly forgotten search for gallifrey next season


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> FFS, the Cybermen weren't the big reveal in this!


Apart from the doors in the shape of cyberman eyes the audience is meant to be surprised at.

So no of course it's secondary to her being the Master, but no less a daft thing to spoil.

I think it should have been evil Romana. Much much more interesting story to go with rather than the Master, inexplicably back from the wherever the fuck he was. I don't even remember. But then That was the story where they made Rassilon into a genocidal dick played by Timothy Dalton.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 1, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Is there some kind of rule that we can only have iconic figures returning? The master again is just lazy.



Well there's no rule, but a big reveal of a minor character from the C. Baker years just seems a thin thing to hang a series finale on.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Is there some kind of rule that we can only have iconic figures returning? The master again is just lazy.




as foes go we have only had individuals from the past. Plenty of good new monsters though. Weeping angels, flatland monsters, the shadows etc


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

AverageJoe said:


> Fuck you haterz. I loved it.
> 
> "Oh look, another drunken Scotsman, I didnt realise there was a game on".
> 
> ...


Great lines, yes.

But they alone don't make a story. Theis season has been full of great lines, but the stories are just bizarre. What on earth was all that "don't cremate me" stuff about? Bit grim!


----------



## Belushi (Nov 1, 2014)

Is this what Beeb does instead of a female doctor?


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> as foes go we have only had individuals from the past. Plenty of good new monsters though. Weeping angels, flatland monsters, the shadows etc


shadows?

the vashta nerada(?)


----------



## Santino (Nov 1, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Is this what Beeb does instead if a female doctor?


It's too early to say.


----------



## binka (Nov 1, 2014)

i really liked it - some very unsettling bits (dont cremate me, the kid danny killed) and think the general quality (acting, sets etc) is much better than previous series.

not sure why people seem to be pissing blood over it being the master instead of some other timelord 99% of people have never heard of


----------



## Belushi (Nov 1, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> But they alone don't make a story. Theis season has been full of great lines, but the stories are just bizarre. What on earth was all that "don't cremate me" stuff about? Bit grim!



that was the good stuff this episode! Proper dark!


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Is this what Beeb does instead if a female doctor?


paves the way for a femal doc in future. makes gender changing accepted.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Apart from the doors in the shape of cyberman eyes the audience is meant to be surprised at.
> 
> So no of course it's secondary to her being the Master, but no less a daft thing to spoil.
> 
> I think it should have been evil Romana. Much much more interesting story to go with rather than the Master, inexplicably back from the wherever the fuck he was. I don't even remember. But then That was the story where they made Rassilon into a genocidal dick played by Timothy Dalton.



he was sealed back in the timelock with dalston and the evil timelords. But in the 50th anniversary gallifrey was merely moved to a new spot unknown, clearly freeing the master


----------



## 8115 (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> as foes go we have only had individuals from the past. Plenty of good new monsters though. Weeping angels, flatland monsters, the shadows etc


It would have been a bit strange if Missy turned out to be a weeping angel though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> shadows?
> 
> the vashta nerada(?)




thats them. Not starring cliff richards.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 1, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Moffat said he has no interest in bringing back the Master.
> 
> He said that he didn't think Delgado could be bettered. Tend to agree, though The Deadly Assassin is one of my favourite stories.


He lied, the fecker!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Is this what Beeb does instead of a female doctor?




remember we nearly had Patterson Joseph as the previous doc, but then they cast another posh white man


----------



## Santino (Nov 1, 2014)

Reminds me of unbelievably shit Torchwood thing where no one could die.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> this was the penultimate. So expect the Mistress to be defeated by next week. And then on to the seemingly forgotten search for gallifrey next season



For some reason I was expecting the search for Gallifrey to be the whole point of this series. I'm hoping we get some tie-in to his doodles that we kept seeing early on. I'd like for them to have actually been something.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

i'm quite amused by the fact that she's dressed like mary poppins.


----------



## Santino (Nov 1, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> He lied, the fecker!


Rule 1


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 1, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Is this what Beeb does instead of a female doctor?



Well, see, now the cunt can say "See, I've given you your female time lord, now fuck off."

*readies boxing gloves*


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Well, see, now the cunt can say "See, I've given you your female time lord, now fuck off."
> 
> *readies boxing gloves*


and of course - we have a strong female character whose primary interaction with the doctor is to bewilder him by being sexually forward.

Moffatt is such a fucking cliche!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> he was sealed back in the timelock with dalston and the evil timelords. But in the 50th anniversary gallifrey was merely moved to a new spot unknown, clearly freeing the master


Clearly.

And Rassilon was meant to be a good guy, he's the architect of Timelord culture and technology. 

Bring back Omega.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

Santino said:


> Reminds me of unbelievably shit Torchwood thing where no one could die.


except the plot and all hope fo Torchwood ever being decent...like it was when Capaldi was in it.


----------



## madamv (Nov 1, 2014)

Love the ideas behind death here.  Talking to those you've killed? Woah! .  And feeling after death!?  I'm in a shit heap of bother!


----------



## Santino (Nov 1, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Clearly.
> 
> And Rassilon was meant to be a good guy, he's the architect of Timelord culture and technology.
> 
> Bring back Omega.


Power corrupts.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 1, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> and of course - we have a strong female character whose primary interaction with the doctor is to bewilder him by being sexually forward.
> 
> Moffatt is such a fucking cliche!



I am *half* forgiving him for that because of the carryover Simm sexual tension. But only half. The rest of me is incandescent with quietly simmering rage.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> the bloke counselling danny seemed to have a bit of the Olly from thick of it to him


Lots of good lines for Addison - perfect in that role.

Now, is SEB an acronym for something clever?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

I just feel the Master was a bit of a pedestrian choice, even in a skirt.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

when we did the 'female master' speculation last year Judi Dench was a popular choice but I think MISI's actor has more of an evilly kooky thing going on which is a good tie to the mania of Simms master- a clear break from the suave delgado of Old Who


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> when we did the 'female master' speculation last year Judi Dench was a popular choice but I think MISI's actor has more of an evilly kooky thing going on which is a good tie to the mania of Simms master- a clear break from the suave delgado of Old Who


there is no way Dame Judi Dench would do it!


----------



## binka (Nov 1, 2014)

how many times has the master appeared in dr who since it returned? it's not like she turns up every series like those fucking daleks!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> there is no way Dame Judi Dench would do it!




to big for it I suppose. But no it was last years speculation- in her role as M she does dark puppet master (lol) well.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

binka said:


> how many times has the master appeared in dr who since it returned? it's not like she turns up every series like those fucking daleks!




twice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

well thrice now.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 1, 2014)

Didn't the master's wife pick up his ring from the funeral pyre at the end of a tenant episode (thus making the way for a female regen of the master)?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> to big for it I suppose. But no it was last years speculation- in her role as M she does dark puppet master (lol) well.


Unlike Sir Derek of Jacobi of course


----------



## Quartz (Nov 1, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> paves the way for a femal doc in future. makes gender changing accepted.



They did that last year with one of the shorts in the run-up to the 50th anniversary special. The one with Paul McGann meeting the 'witches'. They explicitly mentioned changing sex.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 1, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Didn't the master's wife pick up his ring from the funeral pyre at the end of a tenant episode (thus making the way for a female regen of the master)?




well remembered. But was that the pyre from simms first outing as master? because when he came back in white with stupid powers I thought he was sucked into the timelock with the time lords and thier 70s costumes


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 1, 2014)

Well, I thought it was ace. Quite unsettling and Michelle Gomez was magnificent and inspired. I hope she keeps the role for a good while.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> well remembered. But was that the pyre from simms first outing as master? because when he came back in white with stupid powers I thought he was sucked into the timelock with the time lords and thier 70s costumes



Indeed. The pyre/ring thing was at the end of the series with Martha, where the Master died heroically on Ten's lap as they cried at each other in a very loving way. 

The last time we saw him he was being locked away with Rassilon, et al.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 2, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Indeed. The pyre/ring thing was at the end of the series with Martha, where the Master died heroically on Ten's lap as they cried at each other in a very loving way.


 That was so sad. 
And slightly arousing.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 2, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Didn't the master's wife pick up his ring from the funeral pyre at the end of a tenant episode (thus making the way for a female regen of the master)?


no it was one of his followers not his wife.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

zoooo said:


> That was so sad.
> And slightly arousing.




as all greek tragedy


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 2, 2014)

Pah, better than the last one but there's still only really been two good episodes so far this series.

Anyway _Remembrance of Daleks,_ is on the ABC, a proper Who story.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

For time lord regeneration shenanigans see how they introduced lala ward to the role of Romana


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> For time lord regeneration shenanigans see how they introduced lala ward to the role of Romana


I love that bit. At the time they said female time lords could regenerate into whoever they liked where er they liked, as many times as they wanted.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

Problem with the show is that it's all banter, easter eggs and style over substance. I want it to get back to actual stories, not clever trickery. That bank heist episode could have been really good but it was spoiled in the end by a predictable timey wimey twist. 

And Danny is obviously not dead since we've met his descendant from the future. So why include all the ballache with an officious Chris Addison and that kid from Afghanistan? Was that necessary? That could have been time devoted to Cyberman awesomeness!

Whatever happened to a weekly adventure, largely self contained, not dependent on in-jokes, easter eggs, references and oblique foreshadowing?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I love that bit. At the time they said female time lords could regenerate into whoever they liked where er they liked, as many times as they wanted.


It wasn't explicitly just a time lady thing. It was to explain how the actress who played the local protagonist in the last episode is now the actress playing the doctor's companion in this.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> It wasn't explicitly just a time lady thing. It was to explain how the actress who played the local protagonist in the last episode is now the actress playing the doctor's companion in this.


Yes of course it was just a throwaway reason for ward to take over the romana role, but then it was just something time ladies could do. Same as regeneration, it wasn't even a regeneration until the fourth doctor. First it was a renewal (via the tardis) then a 'change of appearance' as a punishment (not much of a punishment if time lords do it all the time).


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

So The Mastress has been robbing graves throughout all of human history to build a massive cyberarmy? Seriously?

Why do the minds of dead people need to be uploaded into the Gallifrey nethersphere bollock?

What was the point of the creep pervy Dr Chang? Why was there a need to fill the nation's children with existential fear of eternal torment? Aren't Daleks and cyerbmen alone enough to give them a well meaning fright?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Why was there a need to fill the nation's children with existential fear of eternal torment? Aren't Daleks and cyerbmen alone enough to give them a well meaning fright?



Jesus Christ, give it a rest.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Jesus Christ, give it a rest.


why? This is the thread where we discuss the epsiode hence the title, which you seem to have misread. If other people's opinions bother you then the internet isn't the best place for you.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> why? This is the thread where we discuss the epsiode hence the title, which you seem to have misread. If other people's opinions bother you then the internet isn't the best place for you.



When you're reduced to "Why is Doctor Who scary?" level moaning, it suggests to me that you are trying a wee bit too hard to dislike it.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 2, 2014)

Must admit, I thought that Dr Chang looked like David Miliband, so the point about spreading torment is well made.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 2, 2014)

How come you could see the chairs in the tanks? Were they organic chairs?


----------



## binka (Nov 2, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> How come you could see the chairs in the tanks? Were they organic chairs?


i suppose they could have been wooden chairs but that seems a bit far fetched for dr who


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 2, 2014)

binka said:


> i suppose they could have been wooden chairs but that seems a bit far fetched for dr who



Then we must assume that Dr Chang's watch-strap was not made of leather


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> When you're reduced to "Why is Doctor Who scary?" level moaning, it suggests to me that you are trying a wee bit too hard to dislike it.


Is that what you thought I said?


----------



## prunus (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Why was there a need to fill the nation's children with existential fear of eternal torment?



Because scaring kids is its *job*  I approve wholeheartedly. 

I thought that was very good. I hope they resolve it without too much hand-waving. Michelle Gomez is excellent, and there were loads of great lines, and genuine darkness. My kids have watched it twice already.


----------



## dessiato (Nov 2, 2014)

Only just got round to watching the last two episodes. I still love this series and have enjoyed all of it so far. IIRC in the one set in the London forests at the end it said something like "the finale begins". This seems a great two part finale for Clara.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 2, 2014)

Is it the end of Clara?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Why was there a need to fill the nation's children with existential fear of eternal torment?



The Catholic Church just isn't up to the job these days.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 2, 2014)

I did think it was possibly a bit scary. I think Dr Who has got less suitable for younger children over time.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

Dr Who's scary reputation is based on a minority of its episodes and is largely a bit condescending. it's no scarier than Star Trek, which also has episodes based on horror themes with monsters that might scare kids.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Problem with the show is that it's all banter, easter eggs and style over substance. I want it to get back to actual stories, not clever trickery. That bank heist episode could have been really good but it was spoiled in the end by a predictable timey wimey twist.
> 
> And Danny is obviously not dead since we've met his descendant from the future. So why include all the ballache with an officious Chris Addison and that kid from Afghanistan? Was that necessary? That could have been time devoted to Cyberman awesomeness!
> 
> Whatever happened to a weekly adventure, largely self contained, not dependent on in-jokes, easter eggs, references and oblique foreshadowing?




easter eggs is a wank gaming term, when referring to proper artforms we speak of visual clues, inter textual references and plot points

*holds nose in air and watches a program about an alien in a blue magic box*


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> The Catholic Church just isn't up to the job these days.


they tend to torment children in this life not the next


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Dr Who's scary reputation is based on a minority of its episodes and is largely a bit condescending. it's no scarier than Star Trek, which also has episodes based on horror themes with monsters that might scare kids.




its not based on a handful of episodes. Its based on pitching episodes just scary enough so that young kids don'tactually shit themselves and cry but do get a bit scaredy. Hence the famous 'hiding behind the sofa/cushion' trope, all done in fun and the doctor always saves the day and kills the monsters. Its how it has always been

anyway todayskids have it even easier- for them as really shit it you can watch Doctor Who Extra so the kids can see behind the curtain and the man in the monster suit


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> its not based on a handful of episodes. Its based on pitching episodes just scary enough so that young kids don'tactually shit themselves and cry but do get a bit scaredy. Hence the famous 'hiding behind the sofa/cushion' trope, all done in fun and the doctor always saves the day and kills the monsters. Its how it has always been
> 
> anyway todayskids have it even easier- for them as really shit it you can watch Doctor Who Extra so the kids can see behind the curtain and the man in the monster suit


Not every episode is scary, nor were they intended to be scary. Not even half. Some were (Image of Fendahl, Kinda/Snakedance, Robots of Death, Blink) most weren't.

I'm not even sure what the whole point of the dark water was for? To hide some cybermen in a museum?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> easter eggs is a wank gaming term, when referring to proper artforms we speak of visual clues, inter textual references and plot points
> 
> *holds nose in air and watches a program about an alien in a blue magic box*


Excellent work. And now all I need is for you to reject the ridiculous use of story arc (which already has a perfectly good technical meaning) instead of subplot.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

pretty much. Oh and it gave them an excuse to do the skeletons looking at you frightener


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Great lines, yes.
> 
> But they alone don't make a story. Theis season has been full of great lines, but the stories are just bizarre. What on earth was all that "don't cremate me" stuff about? Bit grim!



The Master/Mistress is assembling a Cyberman army constituted of anyone who was ever buried (remember her point about the dead outnumbering the living?). The "don't cremate me" message was obviously a _spiel_ to convince mankind to stop burning bodies/valuable Cyberman resources.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)




----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

So nobody noticed all the graves being exhumed then?

So many grisly questions!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2014)

It was completely cool.  Total win.

And here's why:






/thread.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

If it's any consolation Clara, Danny died in the most peaceful automobile accident ever.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 2, 2014)

I wish they could find a way to make the current Cybermen as scary as those weird old ones are. (And I'm not saying that for nostalgia reasons, cos they were before my time.)


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

zoooo said:


> I wish they could find a way to make the current Cybermen as scary as those weird old ones are. (And I'm not saying that for nostalgia reasons, cos they were before my time.)


They were, when they were first rebooted and they deleted people and sent the rest to the room of chopping and cutting to become cybered up. Since then they've inexplicably appeared at random and done not much, even fight Daleks!


----------



## zoooo (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> They were, when they were first rebooted and they deleted people and sent the rest to the room of chopping and cutting to become cybered up. Since then they've inexplicably appeared at random and done not much, even fight Daleks!


True, that episode was quite scary.
They just need to look... heavier and more roboty and substantial. They always just look like blokes in a slightly homemade cardboard costume.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Clearly.
> 
> And Rassilon was meant to be a good guy, he's the architect of Timelord culture and technology.
> 
> Bring back Omega.



i dunno about good guy  but  he was meant to be  a complex mastermind  

the entirety of the five doctors is basically rassilon trolling people from beyond the grave

he is't  shouty mcangrypants


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

Cybermen on a modern high street would be fucked, I'd just nip into Cash4Gold and the bastards wouldn't be able to get near me.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 2, 2014)

zoooo said:


> True, that episode was quite scary.
> They just need to look... heavier and more roboty and substantial. They always just look like blokes in a slightly homemade cardboard costume.


they *always* looked like that.  Honestly - don't look to old who for costumes that look less home made.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

this is what we did before CGI.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 2, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> It was completely cool.  Total win.
> 
> And here's why:
> 
> ...


 That was ruined a bit by it being in the advert. The dark water twist was obvious because if that. I may not of guessed until the music cybus cybernen music played when the Doctor said obvious.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 2, 2014)

IS CLARA LEAVING?


----------



## 8115 (Nov 2, 2014)




----------



## CNT36 (Nov 2, 2014)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i dunno about good guy  but  he was meant to be  a complex mastermind
> 
> the entirety of the five doctors is basically rassilon trolling people from beyond the grave
> 
> he is't  shouty mcangrypants


 There was always meant to be ambiguity. I think it was meant to play into the Cartmell masterplan.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 2, 2014)

What's that building all the cybermen walked out of at the end?

I wish they hadn't put the cybermen in the fucking trailer, it made the clever trick with the logo a complete waste of time.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> What's that building all the cybermen walked out of at the end?
> .


It's the Bird Woman's Patch from Mary Poppins. It's in that there London. There's a Cafe Rouge opposite.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> That was ruined a bit by it being in the advert.


Ah. I didn't see the advert.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 2, 2014)

8115 said:


> IS CLARA LEAVING?


Google says, nobody knows but there *is* a surprise on the way.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2014)

8115 said:


> Google says, nobody knows but there *is* a surprise on the way.


Some random character who was in one episode in the late 80s (when nobody sensible was watching because it's not Canon) for 2 scenes, in the background, returns?


----------



## 8115 (Nov 2, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Some random character who was in one episode in the late 80s (when nobody sensible was watching because it's not Canon) for 2 scenes, in the background, returns?


It was all a dream/ the real Clara is really only shrunk to 1cm and has been sat inside a massive robot replica Clara's eye all season.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> this is what we did before CGI.


That never happened.

Some people believe that the 5th - 8th Doctors were televised, but they weren't.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

in completely unrelated but interesting news I've had time to study Sean Pertwees face a bit because he is playing a young Alfred in the pre-batman series 'Gotham'

look at how he has his old mans jaw! uncanny.


----------



## Pingu (Nov 2, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> It was completely cool.  Total win.
> 
> And here's why:
> 
> ...


^this


----------



## zoooo (Nov 2, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> they *always* looked like that.  Honestly - don't look to old who for costumes that look less home made.


Lol, yes. I didn't make a very good argument there did I.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 2, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Some random character who was in one episode in the late 80s (when nobody sensible was watching because it's not Canon) for 2 scenes, in the background, returns?


Are you stoned?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> in completely unrelated but interesting news I've had time to study Sean Pertwees face a bit because he is playing a young Alfred in the pre-batman series 'Gotham'
> 
> look at how he has his old mans jaw! uncanny.



Pertwee Jr reminds me more of his distant relative, Warden Hodges.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 2, 2014)

8115 said:


> It was all a dream/ the real Clara is really only shrunk to 1cm and has been sat inside a massive robot replica Clara's eye all season.



There was a 'miniature Clara' post-it note on Clara's shelves in that last episode 

And we never saw Doc and Clara being de-minatuarised after they got out of the dalek 

e2a: And what was she freaking out about before Danny Pink got himself ran over?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> in completely unrelated but interesting news I've had time to study Sean Pertwees face a bit because he is playing a young Alfred in the pre-batman series 'Gotham'
> 
> look at how he has his old mans jaw! uncanny.



http://instagram.com/p/u1J6-juOHD/


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 2, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> There was a 'miniature Clara' post-it note on Clara's shelves in that last episode
> 
> And we never saw Doc and Clara being de-minatuarised after they got out of the dalek
> 
> e2a: And what was she freaking out about before Danny Pink got himself ran over?



I got all WTF? when I saw a post-it with "Jenny" written on it, until I was reminded Vastra's wife is called Jenny. It had me thinking she was his daughter regenerated 

I think it was just that at the end of the foresty London episode she said she was going to tell him everything, so I reckon she'd just been making notes, preparing, etc.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Are you stoned?


Are you?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 2, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I think it was just that at the end of the foresty London episode she said she was going to tell him everything, so I reckon she'd just been making notes, preparing, etc.


Yes, very obviously this. She wanted to come clean to Danny.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 2, 2014)

are we sure that 'Make sure the chaotic time travelling doer of good doesn't place you in peril else you are dumped' is a good message for the kids? I mean what about all the times where it was dinner on argleblerg 3 watching the twin moons rise over an ammonia sea?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> dinner on argleblerg 3 watching the twin moons rise over an ammonia sea


"I've seen it. It's rubbish."


----------



## Chuff (Nov 2, 2014)

when i was about 7 I was in the car with my mum and dad driving towards Morden and I saw Sean Pertwee driving Bessy, I got slightly over ventilated and was screaming Dr Who, over and over, by the time my parents looked he had turned down a side road 

I never realised Alfie was his son , was talking to the missus last night about the episode with the giant maggots and how she has been phobic ever since.

I think the writing team have struggled to adapt to the new DR's personality and last weeks focus on Clara was a great step and this week was better than i hoped, been generally disappointed with this series but its growing on me and may well once I have bonded with the foul scot take obscene pleasure in re-watching them all


----------



## zoooo (Nov 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> are we sure that 'Make sure the chaotic time travelling doer of good doesn't place you in peril else you are dumped' is a good message for the kids?


Yes, all this unchallenged 'my new boyfriend has forbidden me to spend time with an old friend so I'm going along with it' stuff has been pissing me off for weeks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2014)

oh glad its not just me then. I am on team Mr Pink really, but that episode where he made her promise on fear of dumping not to let the doc imperil her was off. He's good looking *but *the doc has a time and space machine that can go anywhere and anywhen. Going to see the sacking of rome danny BRB M8


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 3, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Are you?


Sometimes it's hard to tell


----------



## Chz (Nov 3, 2014)

zoooo said:


> True, that episode was quite scary.
> They just need to look... heavier and more roboty and substantial. They always just look like blokes in a slightly homemade cardboard costume.


I disagree. What made the old ones creepy was the vestiges of humanity in them. Without that, they're just bog-standard robots. I also miss the weird sing-song voices the old ones had. If you ever get the opportunity to get some of the Big Finish plays, I really recommend _"Spare Parts"_ on the origin of the Cybermen.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> in completely unrelated but interesting news I've had time to study Sean Pertwees face a bit because he is playing a young Alfred in the pre-batman series 'Gotham'
> 
> look at how he has his old mans jaw! uncanny.


Fuck, he really does look like him there.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 3, 2014)

Chz said:


> I disagree. What made the old ones creepy was the vestiges of humanity in them. Without that, they're just bog-standard robots. I also miss the weird sing-song voices the old ones had. If you ever get the opportunity to get some of the Big Finish plays, I really recommend _"Spare Parts"_ on the origin of the Cybermen.


Yes, I somehow managed to make two contradictory points there.
I do like the old ones because they're more human and just... terrifyingly odd.
But I don't see them changing the new ones to be more like that, so I'd be happy with them just making them more believable as big heavy robots. The stampy march they do always looks a bit light and camp because there's no substance to them.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 3, 2014)

zoooo said:


> Yes, I somehow managed to make two contradictory points there.
> I do like the old ones because they're more human and just... terrifyingly odd.
> But I don't see them changing the new ones to be more like that, so I'd be happy with them just making them more believable as big heavy robots. The stampy march they do always looks a bit light and camp because there's no substance to them.



I always thought the cybermen were more scary than the daleks, and no, not just because they could get up the stairs.  There's something non-rational and relentless about cybermen which is worse than the melodramatic Evil of the pepperpots.

If you want to talk about camp, I think the Daleks have the edge - gliding about the place, festooned with golden baubles and screeching high-pitched threats at the slightest provocation... 

Ever since the reboot, despite plenty of good episodes scattered here and there, I have longed for the programme to give the meta-stories and love interest a rest and spend more time on the suspense and the creepy atmosphere I loved so much in Who of old.  So I was primed to be really pissed off with this finale.  I have to admit though I thought it mostly worked quite well - maybe because the double episode gives them time to do what I just said.  I truly didn't care about who Missy was going to turn out to be (not that we hadn't guessed...) as long as it largely works as a self-contained story.

I thought the dead little kid bit was a misstep though - didn't sit well with the arch attitude of almost everyone else, particularly Addison, to the 'afterlife'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2014)

it did follow the true pattern of the victims of capitals wars having literally no voice.


also re cybermen- never liked them, crapper than sontarans.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 3, 2014)

I am so bored of the love story aspects. When Capaldi started he made a point of saying there'd be no flirting whatsoever between he and the companion and I was so relieved, but all they've done is replace it with Clara and Danny's interminably boring, whiny relationship.

I do actually like Pink, but their relationship drama is painfully dull.

Apart from that downside of the series, I've enjoyed Capaldi a lot.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2014)

at least in torchwood the relationship stuff was allied to sex scenes.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> at least in torchwood the relationship stuff was allied to sex scenes.


Between lots of attractive men.

God, I miss Torchwood.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 3, 2014)

zoooo said:


> Between lots of attractive men.
> 
> God, I miss Torchwood.


 

Imagine Danny Pink and the gay Welsh guy whos' name I can't remember


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2014)

I think it hit peak geek homoerotiscism when Captain Jack kissed Spike out of buffy


----------



## 8den (Nov 3, 2014)

Owen Harper? Ugh.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2014)

which was the one with the rape spray. That was dark


----------



## 8den (Nov 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> which was the one with the rape spray. That was dark



That was Owen Harper, but he had that weird slightly melted creepy data rapey face.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Nov 3, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Imagine Danny Pink and the gay Welsh guy whos' name I can't remember


Yeah, imagine!


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 3, 2014)

8den said:


> Owen Harper? Ugh.


 
Not him the one in the suit


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> which was the one with the rape spray. That was dark


 
Is that like toning mist?


----------



## 8115 (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm sure they used to film on location more. Now it all feels like it's shot in a studio which isn't very scary. I like a good location, like the hotel with the scarey rooms and the minotaur. Disappointing this series.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 3, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Imagine Danny Pink and the gay Welsh guy whos' name I can't remember


Lovely Ianto!
Good call.



DotCommunist said:


> I think it hit peak geek homoerotiscism when Captain Jack kissed Spike out of buffy


That was genuinely one of my favourite moments of television ever.


----------



## 8den (Nov 3, 2014)

8115 said:


> I'm sure they used to film on location more. Now it all feels like it's shot in a studio which isn't very scary. I like a good location, like the hotel with the scarey rooms and the minotaur. Disappointing this series.



Um the scary hotel episode aka the God Complex? Shot in a studio. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Complex#Filming_and_costumes


----------



## 8115 (Nov 3, 2014)

8den said:


> Um the scary hotel episode aka the God Complex? Shot in a studio.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Complex#Filming_and_costumes


Ok, well, it was a big studio.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2014)

redsquirrel said:


> Fuck, he really does look like him there.




just came across this- sean dressed as his old man for halloween!


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> just came across this- sean dressed as his old man for halloween!



he's too young as yet, isn't he?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> he's too young as yet, isn't he?




yeah, he's got his dads face but not the years as when his was doc 3 (he has mentioned tin interview that he would never play the Doctor because nobody can do Doctor Who better than his father.Debatable!)


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 3, 2014)

I posted that yesterday but just the link grrrrr


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 3, 2014)

ruffneck23 said:


> I posted that yesterday but just the link grrrrr




You can have my likes  then *magnanimous*


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 3, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> he's too young as yet, isn't he?





DotCommunist said:


> yeah, he's got his dads face but not the years as when his was doc 3 (he has mentioned tin interview that he would never play the Doctor because nobody can do Doctor Who better than his father.Debatable!)



Jon was 51 when he first played The Doctor. Sean is 50. *speculates about better nutrition/lack of war*


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 3, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> You can have my likes  then *magnanimous*


I'll take those three


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 3, 2014)

Tangent:

Ianto's actor - Gareth David-Lloyd - is voicing a main elven character called Solas in BioWare's soon-to-be-released _Dragon Age: Inquisition_. Gwen's actor - Eve Myles - voiced a main elven character called Merrill in their _Dragon Age II_. Suzie's actor - Indira Varma - is voicing a main human character called Vivienne in _Inquisition_. If Merrill gets a cameo in the game, I expect the three of them to meet up at some point and talk about this enigmatic pirate they happen to know called Captain Jack.

Ferdi from _This Life_ is playing the fabulous gay mage called Dorian in _Inquisition_. No word yet on whether he'll get his cock out.


----------



## belboid (Nov 3, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> I thought the dead little kid bit was a misstep though - didn't sit well with the arch attitude of almost everyone else, particularly Addison, to the 'afterlife'.


It was necessary to push Danny into pressing the delete button, I assume.

Very good episode, yet more cracking lines (they [volcanoes] are just leaky mountains - might well have been my favourite), a solid, well developed plot, Missy being someone only kaka tim (on here) had guessed, despite the fact that, on hindsight,it's obvious - which is just what the best twists are - and enough spookiness to unsettle the children. And of course, that scene with the cybermen strolling down the steps of St Paul's.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 3, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> I thought the dead little kid bit was a misstep though - didn't sit well with the arch attitude of almost everyone else, particularly Addison, to the 'afterlife'.



The whole afterlife thing is just a scam to get people to let go of their memories and emotions so they can be turned into cybermen. The kid was clearly sent to Danny to make him want to forget his life. The kid doesn't even say anything, he's probably just a projection plucked out of Danny's memories rather than a real live, er, dead child.


----------



## belboid (Nov 3, 2014)

Interesting fact from the Grauniad, considering the discussions of Moffat's problems with women:

Matt Smith’s Doctor never spoke a word written by a woman and Capaldi hasn’t yet.


According to the wiki list, women have only written, or co-written, 8.5 stories in the last fiftyone years.  And one of those is dubious. Only one woman has written more than one story on her own.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 3, 2014)

I wonder if they have a better ratio of female directors? Probably not. But I know this week's was directed by a woman.


----------



## belboid (Nov 3, 2014)

zoooo said:


> I wonder if they have a better ratio of female directors? Probably not. But I know this week's was directed by a woman.


the first in four years, apparently (unless there was another one earlier in the season).  _Blink _was tho. As were another dozen or so stories, by 9 women.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 4, 2014)

really enjoyed the episode, best first half of a finale so far.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> just came across this- sean dressed as his old man for halloween!


Why is he carrying a tiny leather sofa in his right hand?


----------



## Chz (Nov 4, 2014)

zoooo said:


> I wonder if they have a better ratio of female directors? Probably not. But I know this week's was directed by a woman.


The Beeb's not too bad on women in senior management roles (Who has Verity Lambert, after all!), but not so much on the creative side. I expect there's still a lot of old boys' club nonsense there.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 4, 2014)

Chz said:


> The Beeb's not too bad on women in senior management roles (Who has Verity Lambert, after all!), but not so much on the creative side. I expect there's still a lot of old boys' club nonsense there.


She left Who in 1965, and has been dead for 7 years.

As to your second point, she went to Roedean School and the Sorbonne.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 4, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> really enjoyed the episode, best first half of a finale so far.



Certainly the least plot holes of any first half of a finale so far...


----------



## belboid (Nov 4, 2014)

Under Moffat, then - no writers, and only two directors (one of whom got two episodes) have been female


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 4, 2014)

That's a pretty disastrous statistic isn't it? Especially considering some of the incompetent male writers they have been able to find work for.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 4, 2014)

So The Master appeared in New Who during the 10th Doctor's adventures and turned the Dr into a cross between Tweety Pie and that pervy old man from Family Guy. Consequently Martha had to walk the earth like Kwai Chang Kane and tell everyone to send the Dr happy thoughts to heal him. Then, when the Master got shot he willed himself not to regenerate. To resolve the mess the Master had made of the Earth he travelled back in time and everything was ok.

Yet Danny Pink gets hit by a car and the Dr can't travel back and say 'look left, look right, look left again'?

I would have preferred a corrupt Romana, that would have been ballsy.


----------



## belboid (Nov 4, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> So The Master appeared in New Who during the 10th Doctor's adventures and turned the Dr into a cross between Tweety Pie and that pervy old man from Family Guy. Consequently Martha had to walk the earth like Kwai Chang Kane and tell everyone to send the Dr happy thoughts to heal him. Then, when the Master got shot he willed himself not to regenerate. To resolve the mess the Master had made of the Earth he travelled back in time and everything was ok.
> 
> Yet Danny Pink gets hit by a car and the Dr can't travel back and say 'look left, look right, look left again'?
> 
> I would have preferred a corrupt Romana, that would have been ballsy.


Yawn


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 4, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> So The Master appeared in New Who during the 10th Doctor's adventures and turned the Dr into a cross between Tweety Pie and that pervy old man from Family Guy. Consequently Martha had to walk the earth like Kwai Chang Kane and tell everyone to send the Dr happy thoughts to heal him. Then, when the Master got shot he willed himself not to regenerate. To resolve the mess the Master had made of the Earth he travelled back in time and everything was ok.
> 
> Yet Danny Pink gets hit by a car and the Dr can't travel back and say 'look left, look right, look left again'?
> 
> I would have preferred a corrupt Romana, that would have been ballsy.


The Master had turned the Tardis into a Paradox machine so the universe didn't go crazy when he had humans from the year 100 trillion kill their ancestors. Captain Jack smashed the paradox machine resetting time to a point before the future humans made a significant impact on the timeline. So the doctor could build his own paradox machine but that would likely put the Tardis out of order. That stupid Christmas Carol seem to have buggered up any rules established then or by Fathers Day.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 4, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> The whole afterlife thing is just a scam to get people to let go of their memories and emotions so they can be turned into cybermen. The kid was clearly sent to Danny to make him want to forget his life. The kid doesn't even say anything, he's probably just a projection plucked out of Danny's memories rather than a real live, er, dead child.



Yeah, I got that, but I still feel if you're going to reference the fact of young children being killed in real, recent wars, it's something worthy of more profound treatment than it got.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 4, 2014)

Ah yes, the paradox machine.

Oh my head hurts remembering all the technobabble!


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 4, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> That's a pretty disastrous statistic isn't it? Especially considering some of the incompetent male writers they have been able to find work for.



What female writers would you recommend?


----------



## belboid (Nov 4, 2014)

They should try Audrey Niffenegger, seeing as they just gave a promo spot to one of her books


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 4, 2014)

belboid said:


> They should try Audrey Niffenegger, seeing as they just gave a promo spot to one of her books



I quite liked that book. I'd like to see Susanna Clarke write a story for the show.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 4, 2014)

JK Rowling anyone?


----------



## belboid (Nov 4, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> I quite liked that book. I'd like to see Susanna Clarke write a story for the show.


I could really see that working.  Nicola Griffith or Kelley Eskridge might work too


----------



## belboid (Nov 4, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> JK Rowling anyone?


Maybe for a christmas special.  They're always shit anyway


----------



## BoxRoom (Nov 4, 2014)

Chz said:


> I disagree. What made the old ones creepy was the vestiges of humanity in them. Without that, they're just bog-standard robots. I also miss the weird sing-song voices the old ones had. If you ever get the opportunity to get some of the Big Finish plays, I really recommend _"Spare Parts"_ on the origin of the Cybermen.


Spare Parts is brilliant! Heartbreaking too.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 4, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> What female writers would you recommend?



AL Kennedy has written a Who novel, and she's got screenwriting experience too.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 4, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Imagine Danny Pink and the gay Welsh guy whos' name I can't remember



Ianto.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 4, 2014)

Was Clara Oswald a teacher when we first meet her? Wasn't she an au pair?


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 4, 2014)

She was a Dalek.


----------



## prunus (Nov 4, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> She was a Dalek.


That was Oswin Oswald wasn't it?


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 4, 2014)

No, it was Clara though she may have forgotten.


----------



## belboid (Nov 4, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Was Clara Oswald a teacher when we first meet her? Wasn't she an au pair?


dont think we really knew, she became a teacher after Trenzalore


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 4, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> What female writers would you recommend?



Sally Wainwright. social realism, mordant wit, Yorkshire folk - just set it in space.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 4, 2014)

Anyway - just got round to watching the latest one - thought it was very good. Will terrify kids for years to come. Some great lines, very dark, her whos playing the master was great, good build up of tension - yaY! 

Now for the crashing disappointment of part 2  - where they rush through the doctor saving the day in some half baked way so they can waste loads of time on the Clara/Danny/Doctor relationship bollocks.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 4, 2014)

Now on Jeremy Kyle...can a Cyberman love a Teacher? 

"at the end of the day jeremy, you just can't delete away love"

awww!

"But he's not the only one you've been seeing is he Clara. Now it says on my card your name's the Doctor. Well this is my show 'doctor' and what I say goes. Time for a DNA test!"

"i'm 3000 years old you stupid pudding brained moloid, i've saved your puny species more times than you've told people to get off your stage"

EXTERMINATE!


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 5, 2014)

wow, did you take time to think about that or was it just spur of the moment inspiration


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> the drama channel is showing the William Hartnell story  the Aztecs on Sunday afternoon as well as an adventure in time and space,  not really relevant to series 8 but I thought it worth a heads up as its a freeview channel


Meant to say, I watched this.  The sets were hilarious!  You could see the wrinkles in the backdrops!  And Ian "struggling" to move a polystyrene carved rock from a tunnel entrance was brilliant, especially as it blew away in a studio breeze when he put it down.  (Reminded me of the small sticks he "struggled" to move to block the descent of the Dalek bomb heading for the core of the Earth in Dalek Invasion of Earth.

And the fight scenes were appalling, and very long.  (One involved repeatedly nudging a polystyrene boulder in front of the temple).

The Doctor was excellent, though.  There should be more whittling of pulley systems and less frantic gnomicness.

Why doesn't the Doctor ever mention his fiancée? (Or his granddaughter, come to that?)


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 5, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> wow, did you take time to think about that or was it just spur of the moment inspiration


I thought it was amusing, so i posted. That's all.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 5, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Why doesn't the Doctor ever mention his fiancée? (Or his granddaughter, come to that?)


I'm guessing it's a bit of a turn off.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2014)

this bod also thinks bringing back the same old villains is fail

Doctor Who needs to let go of the past


----------



## belboid (Nov 5, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> this bod also thinks bringing back the same old villains is fail
> 
> Doctor Who needs to let go of the past


He's an eejit.  Most stories in this series have had new enemies, only the daleks and the cybermen missie are old ones.  Two stories out of ten seems a pretty reasonable balance to me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2014)

its pointed out in the comment thread that we've not seen the master for four years, so its hardly like (s)he's been overused in nuwho!


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 5, 2014)

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...sode-dark-water-after-complaints-9841379.html



> The latest _Doctor Who_ episode, which saw sidekick Clara Oswald’s boyfriend killed in a car crash and an invasion by Cybermen, has prompted complaints from viewers.
> 
> The first in a two-part series climax discussed issues of life and death and suggested that dead people could feel the pain of cremation.
> 
> The BBC has defended the storyline which it says is “appropriate” in the context of the show.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 5, 2014)

the fate of mr pink finally explains this pose


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 5, 2014)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> the fate of mr pink finally explains this pose





Which reminds me, that little waistcoat thing's all very well, but am I going mad or most of the time on the show is he wearing some thing with sparkly thread knitted through it like your nan might wear to the bingo?


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 5, 2014)

This pose, on the other hand....






is just a little bit....


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2014)

cheggers looks gutted there


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 5, 2014)

Well, no wonder.  If there's anything even worse than being Les Dennis, it's being mistaken for Keith Chegwin.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 5, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> Well, no wonder.  If there's anything even worse than being Les Dennis, it's being mistaken for Keith Chegwin.



And having to stand next to Gervais doing that, obv.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 5, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> Which reminds me, that little waistcoat thing's all very well, but am I going mad or most of the time on the show is he wearing some thing with sparkly thread knitted through it like your nan might wear to the bingo?


I think it's actually got tiny little holes all over it.
I quite like it anyway.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 5, 2014)

The problem isn't in using the Master, it's that everyone had expected something a bit more ingenuous, even


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 5, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> The problem isn't in using the Master, it's that everyone had expected something a bit more ingenuous, even


They shouldn't.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> I'm guessing it's a bit of a turn off.


Well, I'd be turned off by someone who has no regard for family members or former soul mates!  Just saying.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2014)

I dunno how true this is but I read that the beeb have to keep using the daleks else the ownership of the dalek concept lapses back to terry nation who would gouge them mercilessly to buy back


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 6, 2014)

They'll keep using the (slightly modified each time) Daleks as it means they can keep cranking out highly lucrative merchandise/toys.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I dunno how true this is but I read that the beeb have to keep using the daleks else the ownership of the dalek concept lapses back to terry nation who would gouge them mercilessly to buy back


He's been dead for decades.  His estate would, you mean?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> He's been dead for decades.  His estate would, you mean?




yeah. I know theres always been an ownership thing with the daleks between nation (est) and the beeb. 

Although surely it would have lapsed in the 90's interregnum, so they had to buy the IP back for nuwho?

I was fascinated to find ou t there was very nearly a blakes 7 story with daleks in it. Crossing the streams.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah. I know theres always been an ownership thing with the daleks between nation (est) and the beeb.
> 
> Although surely it would have lapsed in the 90's interregnum, so they had to buy the IP back for nuwho?
> 
> I was fascinated to find ou t there was very nearly a blakes 7 story with daleks in it. Crossing the streams.


And Nation used _Dalek Invasion of Earth_ (which he wrote) as the basis for Survivors.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2014)

and in the modern remake of survivors, patterson 'I was nearly doctor who' joseph stars as a main character

wheels within wheels


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 6, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> The problem isn't in using the Master, it's that everyone had expected something a bit more ingenuous, even



Well it took me by surprise so I'm OK with it. I didn't like Simm's master at all so I'm glad the character is back and that Gomez seems to be doing what John Simm was trying to do, but doing it properly iyswim.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 6, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well it took me by surprise so I'm OK with it. I didn't like Simm's master at all so I'm glad the character is back and that Gomez seems to be doing what John Simm was trying to do, but doing it properly iyswim.


Gomez is better suited to this kind of role. Simms isn't. He's a good actor but you could tell they went for him because he's 'contemproary', rather than the moustache twirling villain of old.


----------



## Chz (Nov 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah. I know theres always been an ownership thing with the daleks between nation (est) and the beeb.
> 
> Although surely it would have lapsed in the 90's interregnum, so they had to buy the IP back for nuwho?
> 
> I was fascinated to find ou t there was very nearly a blakes 7 story with daleks in it. Crossing the streams.


A friend knows a guy who worked on the screenplay for the episode "Dalek" back in the first (new) series. He says that up 'til the last minute they had to make it vague exactly what the monster was in case they couldn't iron out the rights to the dalek. Apparently the Beeb and the Nation estate used to have a good working relationship, but that did die out through the 90s and they sent some fresh-faced intern to talk with them which rubbed them the wrong way.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> and in the modern remake of survivors, patterson 'I was nearly doctor who' joseph stars as a main character
> 
> wheels within wheels


nearly?

close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2014)

I loved Simms master. Mirrored the manic intensity of his performance was perfect for nuwho


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 6, 2014)

I'm hoping they explain why she acts nothing like the Master. All that shit about having to live with it once she'd killed the other Doctor. It could of been some last act of cruelty but it didn't feel that way. Perhaps now we know who she is there will be a bit more Master in her performance. Hopefully its more than some Moffat crap like "She's a woman this how naughty girls act." Simm was different and they explained that partially with his deliberate youtt, the increasing volume of the drums in his head and even the fact taht he was dealing with the same Time War shit as the Doctor but in a different way perhaps for different reasons. Perhaps she genuinely feels betrayed after helping the Doctor and being left to rot for her troubles. There's a good chance she was on the planet below while 13 Doctors condemned it but they made no effort to repay what the Master may of seen as a kind act by picking him/her up.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 6, 2014)

I loved Simm's Master. He worked fantastically with Tennant's Doctor.
I always wanted him to come back, but not after Tennant left. Wouldn't be the same.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 6, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I loved Simms master. Mirrored the manic intensity of his performance was perfect for nuwho



Certainly that scene in the cabinet room, him drumming his fingers and then disposing of the govt, that was peerless.

And the "grits" comment to the US President


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2014)

Capaldi sent a video message in character to an autistic kid to help him get over his nannies death this week.

we love cpaldi


----------



## 8115 (Nov 8, 2014)

Did Missy say, I just want to pop a balloon, just before she killed that scientist?

In other news, I love Missy.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2014)

Okay, falling out of a plane into the Tardis? That's what has become of thrill hyperinflation. It's ridiculous. Pertwee would never have done that. 

Moffat :shakes fist:


----------



## Epona (Nov 8, 2014)

That episode actually made me cry a bit, and not due to bad script or plot holes (of which there were plenty, but that's not why I shed a tear).

I think I might be a bit drunk.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Okay, falling out of a plane into the Tardis? That's what has become of thrill hyperinflation. It's ridiculous. Pertwee would never have done that.
> 
> Moffat :shakes fist:


Old hat - Bond was doing that sort of stuff back in '95


----------



## binka (Nov 8, 2014)

it all seemed a bit unnecessarily complicated. why not just use the magic cyber rain on living people? would require a lot less fannying around


----------



## 8115 (Nov 8, 2014)

Epona said:


> That episode actually made me cry a bit, and not due to bad script or plot holes (of which there were plenty, but that's not why I shed a tear).
> 
> I think I might be a bit drunk.


Yeah I nearly shed a tear when she said about feeling special.


----------



## spikey_r (Nov 8, 2014)

I loved that episode. TBH i've enjoyed every episode this season. I'm biased because i am a massive Peter Capaldi fan, but his acting ability has really shone through this season. Jenna Coleman has been an excellent companion this season as well.


----------



## Epona (Nov 8, 2014)

spikey_r said:


> I loved that episode. TBH i've enjoyed every episode this season. I'm biased because i am a massive Peter Capaldi fan, but his acting ability has really shone through this season. Jenna Coleman has been an excellent companion this season as well.



Yeah I am really loving Capaldi - he's a good actor and suits the role really well, also I have to say that having an older Doctor makes me feel slightly less decrepit.  Coleman is also good, I think she has great things ahead of her.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

Missy is spectacular. I absolutely adore her. In one way I don't want her to be overused. In another though, I feel that she didn't get enough screentime this series so I'd be happy with her coming back sooner rather than later. She's the highlight of this series. Her flying in via her umbrella was perfectly ridiculous. I'm sad she never had occasion to say "Spit Spot!" though. Sad times.

I'm okay with the utter ridiculousness of the Doctor somehow flying his way into the TARDIS. 

Almost everything on the plane felt unnecessary though. Apart from the bits with Missy and Osgood, and some of the stuff with Missy and the Doctor. 

I'm not sure I'm very happy with how they solved the problem of the Cybermen, it felt like a weird anticlimax. That said, I did like her turning it around and it being about her and the Doctor, rather than about any maniacal plans to take over the world or gain power for herself or whatever. I like it when the Master is driven by her relationship with him, how she feels about him.

I'm a bit uncertain about the status of this supposed afterlife though. I don't think Moffat should have taken it upon himself to pronounce on whether there is one or not, even if it turns out it's kind of maybe some kind of alternate universe and not related to any of our ideas of religion. It was a place that didn't need to be gone to. 

I liked how the Doctor and Clara both lied to each other at the end, to make each other feel better. That was quite sad. 

Were those Silurians at the end then? Nick Frost as Santa is a great move.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 8, 2014)

Do we not think Missy's dead, then?  I thought the Leftbridge-Stewart cyberman zapped her...


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 8, 2014)

8115 said:


> Yeah I nearly shed a tear when she said about feeling special.


I shed a tear at the Brigadier bit 

Really enjoyed it though, like a kind of Wagner opera in space!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Do we not think Missy's dead, then?  I thought the Leftbridge-Stewart cyberman zapped her...



She teleported away, right?

The death zappy thing from Missy's contraption is orange. When she teleported away on the plane it was blue. What happened in the graveyard was blue. I thought that was what happened, and it all just kind of happened at the same time so as to cause confusion. I'm not sure what colour the Cyberman death ray of doom is, but the effect that happened to her seemed decidedly similar to what happened on the plane.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

You can't perma-kill the Master!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

Incidentally, my mother has been telling me for near upon a year now to watch out for episodes of Who in a cemetery. A family member lives by the cemetery it was filmed in (in Wales) and saw them filming way back when. Apparently the largest and most ostentatious grave thing in there belongs to my family *claim to Doctor Who fame*


----------



## binka (Nov 8, 2014)

i think it was the least objectionable finale in new who but the story was still a load of old balls. there was so much that didn't make any sense. why would the cybermen have to manually activate the inhibitor? have it turned on by default ffs.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 8, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> She teleported away, right?
> 
> The death zappy thing from Missy's contraption is orange. When she teleported away on the plane it was blue. What happened in the graveyard was blue. I thought that was what happened, and it all just kind of happened at the same time so as to cause confusion. I'm not sure what colour the Cyberman death ray of doom is, but the effect that happened to her seemed decidedly similar to what happened on the plane.


I'll watch it again tomorrow.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 8, 2014)

Watching the programme has changed since I moved to Cardiff. Just last week I realised that I was walking past where Danny got killed by the world's quietest car. I carefully obeyed the green cross code. 

I cried too. Looking forward to Santa.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Old hat - Bond was doing that sort of stuff back in '95


I can quite believe you, because James Bond is utter crap. 

There's no need for that kind of shit in Dr Who.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

I hope the Santa episode is better than the Scrooge episode. I still get an eye twitch thinking about that.


----------



## binka (Nov 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> There's no need for that kind of shit in Dr Who.


i don't think he flew into the tardis so much as he remote controlled the tardis to position itself to where he was falling


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

I'm in two minds about the flashbacks, where the Doctor was all "oh, so that's why that episode was important." On the one hand, it is nice to see how things come together, but on the other aren't those things better when the audience works them out for themselves and draws the connections?

It didn't feel as objectionable as his neon close ups of the damn crack every episode though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2014)

binka said:


> i don't think he flew into the tardis so much as he remote controlled the tardis to position itself to where he was falling


There was no need for it. It was boring, tawdry shite, and detracted from the episode.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 8, 2014)

Good episode but in a lot of ways I think it sums up the entire series.
Capaldi is superb, he IS The Doctor. Possibly always has been.
Jenna Coleman has been very good throughout this series too, she just seems to work better with Capaldi than she did with Matt Smith.

Stories have been very variable, with the tendency to passable/poor.
Having said that the dialogue have been really good - sharper, mostly more interesting and, in Capaldi's case, delivered at such a speed that you have to watch it twice to catch everything.

Better story ideas needed for next season, and maybe give the season-long theme a break? It's been going on for a while now and it's tired.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 8, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> It didn't feel as objectionable as his neon close ups of the damn crack every episode though.



BAD WOLF


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> BAD WOLF



Bad Wolf was done really well. Same with the Vote Saxon stuff. 

After the first Smith episode, I remember reading fans trying to decode everything in every scene. What was the date on Rory's nurse badge? What did it mean? Was the colour of his pens in his pocket important? Most of that is fan obsession and daftness, but the feeling of piecing things together when you're given just enough but not too much is far more satisfying than being hit over the head with it. Sadly, there wasn't much to piece together once Moffat took over, and all that initial excitement trying to decipher the signs was for naught.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Better story ideas needed for next season, and maybe give the season-long theme a break? It's been going on for a while now and it's tired.


There were some great episodes, like the Flat Land one (whatever it was called). How about sustaining an idea over 4 episodes, say, in a sort of serial? You know, with plot development, and threats that aren't overcome at the end of each episode?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2014)

cyberman dan was hilarious. A curates egg for me, I liked bits and the story worked out but cybermen, so meh. At least we are on course for gallifrey.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> At least we are on course for gallifrey.


Are we? I thought the Doctor bashed the consol because the planet had been destroyed or something. (He was telling Clara the same lie she was telling him, and for the same reason).


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

The Cybermen were diffused as a threat the moment UNIT was taking selfies with them in London. They became pretty inconsequential after that, felt that way anyway. Even when they were bringing the plane down they never felt like a threat. 

To be honest, I think that's okay, like the zombies in The Walking Dead just being a backdrop for a show about the humans left behind. There's been a lot of that in this series, where the monsters and aliens have just been vehicles to move the story about the doctor and relationships forward. I wouldn't like it if that became the focus of the whole show though, but I'm okay with it being done in theory.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 8, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Bad Wolf was done really well.



No it wasn't. It was just a word that was onscreen sometimes for some sort of series-ending deus-ex. It was used well near the end of Donna's run though - it had acquired some meaning and power by then




> Same with the Vote Saxon stuff.



Again, just random sightings.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Are we? I thought the Doctor bashed the consol because the planet had been destroyed or something. (He was telling Clara the same lie she was telling him, and for the same reason).



I was unclear what we were meant to take from that. I took it more that she'd simply either given him the wrong coordinates, or there was something else there, or whatever. I didn't think it meant it had been destroyed. That would be a bad move, imo, and I don't think Moffat would do that. Wouldn't he love the legacy of bringing back all the Time Lords? The whole show is, after all, about Moffat's legacy.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> No it wasn't. It was just a word that was onscreen sometimes for some sort of series-ending deus-ex. It was used well near the end of Donna's run though - it had acquired some meaning and power by then
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess it depends the kind of thing you like, then. That's the kind of thing I like.


----------



## Epona (Nov 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Are we? I thought the Doctor bashed the consol because the planet had been destroyed or something. (He was telling Clara the same lie she was telling him, and for the same reason).



Yep, he opened the door of the TARDIS and there was nothing there.  I thought that was fairly clear.  He was telling Clara a white lie so that she could get on with her life.  IMO - I don't think there's anything more to be read into that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 8, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Wouldn't he love the legacy of bringing back all the Time Lords? .


I thought for a moment we'd be getting that, but then what was the distress about? (And the Parallel with Clara's lie & the hug to hide your face?)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 8, 2014)

Epona said:


> He was telling Clara a white lie so that she could get on with her life.  IMO - I don't think there's anything more to be read into that.



They both were, which I thought was kind of sweet


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2014)

ma was annoyed that the bloke from goodness gracious me died first because she was hoping for lols. But it was in tone a very serious episode. Suppose thats how season finishes go.

What do we have for best and weakest of the season?

I'm going monsters from flatland for best, and weakest for the robin hood one. I liked it ut it was a bit shit.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 8, 2014)

So Danny's descendent - the last man alive - where did he come from?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 8, 2014)

And The Doctor's been married 4 times, all deceased?


----------



## Epona (Nov 8, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> I thought for a moment we'd be getting that, but then what was the distress about? (And the Parallel with Clara's lie & the hug to hide your face?)



It was about trust and deception - it was made utterly clear that the Doctor and the Master/Missy were childhood friends, at the end she asked him to trust her and deceived him horribly - Gallifrey is either destroyed or she gave him the wrong co-ordinates.  That is what the anger was about.  Contrast it with the white lies that he and Clara exchanged at the end of the episode.  One lie designed to hurt, and another designed to prevent hurt. It was quite poignant.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> So Danny's descendent - the last man alive - where did he come from?



Well, that's the question, isn't it?

Perhaps she's pregnant. Maybe we have more timey-wimey to look forward to. Maybe we're meant to forget Orson ever existed (or never existed...).


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

Epona said:


> It was about trust and deception - it was made utterly clear that the Doctor and the Master/Missy were childhood friends, at the end she asked him to trust her and deceived him horribly - Gallifrey is either destroyed or she gave him the wrong co-ordinates.  That is what the anger was about.  Contrast it with the white lies that he and Clara exchanged at the end of the episode.  It was quite poignant.



He's always wanted his childhood friend back again. He loves the Master. I think he always will. Her deception will always hurt him very deeply.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 8, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> You can't perma-kill the Master!



He's been killed off loads of times.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 8, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> He's been killed off loads of times.



There's always been an out though. This is a really obvious out. Hence "you can't *perma*-kill the Master".


----------



## binka (Nov 8, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> What do we have for best and weakest of the season?
> 
> I'm going monsters from flatland for best, and weakest for the robin hood one. I liked it ut it was a bit shit.


best was the flatland one, worst is the moonegg or london forest. even the bad ones were still enjoyable to watch, you couldn't say that about previous series - such as the disaster with peter kay


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 8, 2014)

one thing I liked was how claras doctor-bluff to the cybermen was convincing, because of the best episode in this season, flatland monsters where she plaed doctor for the day as it were. The other reason that episode is win is because it plays with the dimension and time aspect of the tardis. Haven't seen one of them for a while.


----------



## Epona (Nov 8, 2014)

Also re. The Doctor's anger - I think some of it was anger at himself for still having had a small shred of trust in her despite everything (megalomaniac world domination tendencies, spending a couple of decades shrinking people etc.), if that tiny shred hadn't existed, he would have known it was a lie and not even bothered checking out the co-ordinates - he still had that trust, and we witnessed him shedding any illusions about the friendship they used to share.  Hence thumping the console and being upset.


----------



## agricola (Nov 8, 2014)

binka said:


> best was the flatland one, worst is the moonegg or london forest. even the bad ones were still enjoyable to watch, you couldn't say that about previous series - such as the disaster with peter kay



That episode at least had Kathryn Drysdale in it.  _42_ is the worst episode that there has ever been.


----------



## binka (Nov 8, 2014)

agricola said:


> That episode at least had Kathryn Drysdale in it.  _42_ is the worst episode that there has ever been.


i dont have a very good memory so i googled that episode and i vaguely recall it but don't remember thinking it was terrible. what was wrong with it?


----------



## Mungy (Nov 8, 2014)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I shed a tear at the Brigadier bit



Me too, partly from the setup brigadier wanting a salute, and partly in memory of the actor who played the brigadier. an emotional crossover of who-world and the real world, i thought.


----------



## 8115 (Nov 8, 2014)

No, the worst episode ever was the one where people made noises and got thinner. Or fatter.


----------



## agricola (Nov 8, 2014)

binka said:


> i dont have a very good memory so i googled that episode and i vaguely recall it but don't remember thinking it was terrible. what was wrong with it?



Martha and a random bloke save the day by completing questions from a pub quiz, in order to unlock a series of doors on a starship in the far future, or at least they do until Martha goes off and does something else.  Meanwhile, the Tennant Doctor emotes in what appears to be an MRI scanner.


----------



## binka (Nov 8, 2014)

agricola said:


> Martha and a random bloke save the day by completing questions from a pub quiz, in order to unlock a series of doors on a starship in the far future, or at least they do until Martha goes off and does something else.  Meanwhile, the Tennant Doctor emotes in what appears to be an MRI scanner.


ok i think i remember it more now but still don't think it was as bad as the peter kay one


----------



## spliff (Nov 8, 2014)

Some of you Dr.Who freaks may be interested in a forthcoming biography of Malcolm Hulke. 
I knew him when I was a child due to my parents involvement with Unity Theatre.
My mum used to type out his scripts for him and we would avidly watch anything by him when it was broadcast.
I don't think it says it on the link but I read somewhere it's due to be published on 31st Jan 2015.
http://www.miwkpublishing.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=64


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 9, 2014)

Well, I thought that was bloody brilliant, much better that I expected.  Peter Capaldi can be justly proud of his contribution to Doctor Who, he really IS the Doctor.

Anyone else notice the Chaplet Funeral Home = Dodo Chaplet, companion of the First Doctor?

Loved the painting of the Brigadier, and the Brig Cyberman at the end.  Nice touch.  Also that the Master was completely let down by his/her allies, just like in every classic Doctor Who Master story EVER.



Vintage Paw said:


> You can't perma-kill the Master!



Yup.  How many times has he/she died now?



binka said:


> i think it was the least objectionable finale in new who but the story was still a load of old balls. there was so much that didn't make any sense. why would the cybermen have to manually activate the inhibitor? have it turned on by default ffs.



Danny didn't get the chance to fill in his Delete All Emotions paperwork in the Nethersphere so was upgraded too soon.



Epona said:


> Yep, he opened the door of the TARDIS and there was nothing there.  I thought that was fairly clear.  He was telling Clara a white lie so that she could get on with her life.  IMO - I don't think there's anything more to be read into that.



Brilliant snatching-away of hope for the Doctor there.  Gallifrey must be out there somewhere as the Master escaped from it, but the thing about space is, it's really big...



DotCommunist said:


> What do we have for best and weakest of the season?
> 
> I'm going monsters from flatland for best, and weakest for the robin hood one. I liked it ut it was a bit shit.



Completely agree with this post.  Also the Caretaker episode with the RUBBISH monster and Danny's amazing ninja jumping skillz.



Lazy Llama said:


> So Danny's descendent - the last man alive - where did he come from?



Pregnant Clara?



Lazy Llama said:


> And The Doctor's been married 4 times, all deceased?



OK, I think this would be 1) Susan's grandmother; 2) Cameca from The Aztecs (First Doctor); 3) River Song; 4) we haven't met him/her yet but the Doctor has.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 9, 2014)

Lizzie 1


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 9, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> Lizzie 1


Oh yes.  So that's four.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 9, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> ma was annoyed that the bloke from goodness gracious me died first because she was hoping for lols. But it was in tone a very serious episode. Suppose thats how season finishes go.
> 
> What do we have for best and weakest of the season?
> 
> I'm going monsters from flatland for best, and weakest for the robin hood one. I liked it ut it was a bit shit.


The Robin Hood one was abysmal. In addition to Flatland, the Mummy/Orient Express and "Listen" were good too.

The rest poor to mediocre. The bringing kid back at the end of finale was vomit inducing


----------



## Callum91 (Nov 9, 2014)

When the Dr traveled to where Gallifrey was supposed to be...did anyone else get the impression that what Missy meant was that the Dr/TARDIS ARE Gallifrey? Kinda... ''You are all that's left.'' Then the Dr realised that, got abit angry and proceeded to beat the shit out of the TARDIS console. Or is that just me? 

Still... rather a shit episode in a series of meh. Missy was fucking fantastic, I'd love the Beeb to commission a spin off just for her! The Dalek one and the 2D monster episode were the best of the series, the rest rather forgettable. *sigh*


----------



## emanymton (Nov 9, 2014)

I am the only person who really locked the Robin Hood one? Apart from the shooting an arrow at the ship at the end I thought it was great. Really silly but great fun.


----------



## Chz (Nov 9, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> There were some great episodes, like the Flat Land one (whatever it was called). How about sustaining an idea over 4 episodes, say, in a sort of serial? You know, with plot development, and threats that aren't overcome at the end of each episode?


And yet the Flatland one would never hold up to 4 episodes. It was a perfect little parcel, all on its own. 
(And quite probably one of the best stories they've had in ages. How often does the BBC's CGI department get to go nuts and have it not look pants?)


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 9, 2014)

emanymton said:


> I am the only person who really locked the Robin Hood one?


Did you throw away the key?


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 9, 2014)

Perhaps the coordinates were correct. Missy didn't day it was in our universe/dimension just the same location


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 9, 2014)

emanymton said:


> I am the only person who really locked the Robin Hood one? Apart from the shooting an arrow at the ship at the end I thought it was great. Really silly but great fun.




I enjoyed it but it was very silly. Hopefully they'll add the beheding back in for the DVD. Not that a single beheading will make it any better


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 9, 2014)

redsquirrel said:


> The bringing kid back at the end of finale was vomit inducing



Didn't make any sense. The kid's mind had been uploaded to the nethersphere, but his body was all shot up by soldier boy. How therefore did he just stroll back into the mortal world, body and all?

Didn't like the implication that it's OK to roll up in someone else's country and shoot small children so long as you feel bad about it afterwards.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 9, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> So Danny's descendent - the last man alive - where did he come from?


Clara is already pregnant with his baby, and that's why she doesn't want to be getting into galactic scrapes any more?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 9, 2014)

emanymton said:


> I am the only person who really locked the Robin Hood one? Apart from the shooting an arrow at the ship at the end I thought it was great. Really silly but great fun.



Wasn't even enjoyably shit. The acting was horrid, the Doctor blowing up straw targets just by pointing the sonic screwdriver at them was incredibly lazy and the magic golden arrow ending was too stupid for words.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 9, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Clara is already pregnant with his baby, and that's why she doesn't want to be getting into galactic scrapes any more?


But they're not married


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 9, 2014)

thought danny's final speech was a bit much


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 9, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> But they're not married


"Are they making a family show or pornography?"


----------



## 8115 (Nov 9, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> thought danny's final speech was a bit much


What, the shining light of Danny's spirit on the other side talking through the door?

Or Danny's "We shall fight them on the beaches" to the cybermen before they went to blow themselves up?

They both made my toes curl in a bad way.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 9, 2014)

the fight on the beaches one. Eyes were rolled.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 9, 2014)

It wasn't explained very clearly what the bracelet did except move the plot on. If they had been uploaded back into the netherspere but degrading like River Song in the library and that the bracelet was yet another way for the Master to cheat death by saving his mind while building a new body using cyber technology it would all fit with stuff done before and even with previous Moffat episodes. Not the bollocks magical spiritual shit it came across as. It would also make Danny's fate certain and that he wasn't mincing about with Angels or virgins etc and was making ab actual sacrifice rather than just sending some kid back from a non corporeal orgy or whatever to a shitty reality like in Buffy.

When the army was given to the Doctor I thought it was going to get somewhere. So much potential. The way the plot bracelet was put on his wrist almost like handcuffs I thought it would be bonded to him and that he would be trapped with the army or that if he didn't keep it on or keep them busy they would revert to standard cyber behaviour or something Perhaps have an inability to self terminate. The earlier cybersuicides could of been written off as a programming change having been made before they were handed over to the Doctor. Instead there was a quick bit of self reflection and it was handed over to Danny. Why it had to be him was also never fully explained. Squandered opportunities all around.

Last year they very nearly made these new Cybermen scary but that's been wasted as well. Flying cybermen unlike flying Daleks just look shit and completely underwhelming. Fucking Iron mans scarier. Oh look there's a Cyberman at the window struggling to smash through a few inches of metal/glass. Good job there's a Time Lass around to actually bring the plane down.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 9, 2014)

Overall though, I'd say this has been the best series of Moffat's tenure thus far.


DotCommunist said:


> the fight on the beaches one. Eyes were rolled.



Init. They're mindless robots slaved to the will of whoever has the magic doohickey, that was what the whole fake afterlife thing was for, so they don't need a rousing speech. Or a shit speech, which was what they got.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 9, 2014)

Also the whole thing with Missy manipulating the Doctors and Clara's relationship seems to have come to nothing. The best three scenes from various trailers for this two parter were a repeat from The Invasion and the Doctors "you win" exchange that were drained of any impact in the epusode and clips from Clara's two blags that gave a false and much better sounding representation of the episodes content.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 9, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Overall though, I'd say this has been the best series of Moffat's tenure thus far.


Absolutely. 

But selfies with Cybermen is something I'll never forgive him for. 

I ran away from Cybermen at a Dr Who exhibition when I was a kid. I always found them scarier than daleks.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 9, 2014)

Well that was pretty farcical. Ridiculous, non-nonsensical plot with a heavy dose of mawkish sentimentality. Missy and Capladi make it entertaining but ffs - cant moffat learn to reign it in a bit? The best who stories are the smaller scale, tightly plotted,  scary ones not the over egged epics. 

Overall i'v enjoyed this series probably more than any of the others since the re-boot - but - for the most part - thats down to the dialouge and the performances (esp the peerless, brilliant capaldi) - rather than the stories.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 9, 2014)

I really wanted it to be good, but once again i'm disappointed by the second half of a finale, capaldi , missy and jenna were great , the story was just shit


----------



## Cloo (Nov 9, 2014)

It was a bit pants overall... I agree Danny's big speech was toe curling, and out of character with what was otherwise a pretty good and well realised person.

The best bits were the understated ones, such as the Doctor and Clara's comforting lies to one another at the end.

I've not liked this series very much, though I have liked Capaldi and the way his role was written. I think he's had a much more challenging role than the previous few Doctors; a lot more ambiguity and subtlety there. I think the writers did at least appreciate in these series what they had in him.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 9, 2014)

It would have been quite fun if Clara really had been the Doctor. One from the future or something, messing about in her old timeline. That would have been one hell of a reveal.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 9, 2014)

It couldn't of been true but would been interesting. Now its been used S a bluff it will never happen unfortunately.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 9, 2014)

I liked Missy's sly reference to cybermen in Glasgow, hometown of both Capaldi and Gomez.

The cybermen themselves didn't get to do any of their traditional rampaging, they just milled about in graveyards looking morose. Contributed to a general lack of peril that didn't sit well.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 9, 2014)

Also  i think  his doctorate used to be said to be from the edinburgh	but this time theh said glaswgow


----------



## rekil (Nov 9, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> they just milled about in graveyards looking morose.


Anyone made a CyberMorrisseys gag yet?


----------



## belboid (Nov 9, 2014)

well, that was a confused load of old codswallop. I dont mind it not making complete sense, but that was just all over the shop.  Just to pick one thing - so there's now a President of Earth, the one person who might be able to save the place.  So they put him on a flight with his deadly and exteremely powerful foe?  Makes no sense.  And why were they even on a plane? Surely an underground bunker would make more sense.

Several good bits, a few real surprises - I never expected Osgood to cop it - but overall, worst episode of the series (yes, I too quite liked the Robin Hood one)


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 10, 2014)

I liked the finale very satisfying, for me it's one of the best so far. It was sad, funny and occasionally surprising and my only quibble with it is that some of the scenes in the plane were a bit stilted. also did anyone else think that Nick frost looked a bit like Richard Attenborough


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 10, 2014)

Nick frost as santa is delicious because of how if you were going undercover as santa it would make a good psuedonym. St. Nicholas. Frost. eh? eh?

it'll be shit tho, christmas ones always are


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Nov 10, 2014)

Callum91 said:


> Still... rather a shit episode in a series of meh.


^^^ This.
Probably the worst series of Dr Who I've ever seen.
... but at least Danny is dead.
How the fuck anyone can compare this to Dr Who of old is beyond me...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 10, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> ^^^ This.
> Probably the worst series of Dr Who I've ever seen.
> .



Did you not watch last season?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Nov 10, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Did you not watch last season?


I've watched every season, with the exception of anything that contained Sylvester McCoy, because he was a non-starter. 
As bad as some people might think Matt Smith was, he played a perfect role in the script. The script may not have been  very good but he did suit the script, very well. Capaldi, on the other hand, is a much better actor, with, IMHO, a much worse script, and this is the bit that annoys me. I know that (given a better script), Capaldi could take Dr Who to a place it hasn't been since Pertwee... but I guess it's all a matter of opinion...


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 10, 2014)

belboid said:


> And why were they even on a plane?


That's probably because they were using the Invasion as a reference point.  UNIT's headquarters when the Dr first meets the force (although he'd met the Brig before his promotion) is airborne.  (The Invasion was also very closely modelled by Rise of the Cybermen, the parallel universe story with Tenant.  Moffat's problem here was that he had nothing left to use from the Troughton tale except St Pauls and UNIT-in-an-aeroplane).

The trouble is that the Dr does nothing at all in the plane.  He gets on, then gets off.  The point for him being there in plot terms is difficult to see. Missy gets to be marvellously Hannibal Lecter-ish, but the Dr himself does nothing.

In the Troughton original, the Dr spends a lot of time examining cyber technology, trying to find out what Vaughan is up to.  He looks through microscopes.  He designs a gadget for the UNIT people to escape "cyber control".  He draws a diagram of how the cyber ships could be in static orbit behind the moon.  And he has various conversations with the Brig about how they might tackle the cybermen, including going to Russia to use their missile capability.  (In the event, his companion Zoe does some savant-like calculations which she runs around whispering to console operatives).  It wouldn't be considered compelling TV by today's kids, but replacing it by overblown nothing-at-all doesn't work either.

That's one of Moffat's big failings:  his tendency to produce overblown nothing.  He did it in the Christmas-Town-on-Trenzalore episode.  It's a style that reminds me of the horrible version of God Only Knows the BBC is showing atm.  You drown out any subtlety by throwing all the orchestration you have at something, and hope the viewer/listener mistakes it for substance.  It's X Factor TV.

It's a pity in this case, because episode 1 of the pair showed promise, and the Dr and Missy were wonderful,


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Nov 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> It's a pity in this case, because episode 1 of the pair showed promise, and the Dr and Missy were wonderful,


Missy was wonderful... Capaldi was wasted.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> That's one of Moffat's big failings:  his tendency to produce overblown nothing.  He did it in the Christmas-Town-on-Trenzalore episode.  It's a style that reminds me of the horrible version of God Only Knows the BBC is showing atm.  You drown out any subtlety by throwing all the orchestration you have at something, and hope the viewer/listener mistakes it for substance.  It's X Factor TV.
> 
> It's a pity in this case, because episode 1 of the pair showed promise, and the Dr and Missy were wonderful,



Yep - thats the nub of the problem. Although RTD was possibly even worse for that sort of shit. But both have produced some great writing in their time. Maybe the role as Dr who head honcho gives you access to an inexhaustible supply of Venusian cocaine that turns you into a mushy brained meglomaniac.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> That's one of Moffat's big failings:  his tendency to produce overblown nothing.  He did it in the Christmas-Town-on-Trenzalore episode.  It's a style that reminds me of the horrible version of God Only Knows the BBC is showing atm.  You drown out any subtlety by throwing all the orchestration you have at something, and hope the viewer/listener mistakes it for substance.  It's X Factor TV.


Spot on, subtlety of a brick. And this one wasn't even well plotted as belboid said there's a whole bunch of things you just go 'uh?' at.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> thought danny's final speech was a bit much



It was like the speech in 'Pacific Rim'!


----------



## Pingu (Nov 10, 2014)

ruffneck23 said:


> I really wanted it to be good, but once again i'm disappointed by the second half of a finale, capaldi , missy and jenna were great , the story was just shit



^ This.

i was quite excited by the possibilities part 1 threw up but that one left me..... meh


----------



## Pingu (Nov 10, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> I've watched every season, with the exception of anything that contained Sylvester McCoy, because he was a non-starter.
> As bad as some people might think Matt Smith was, he played a perfect role in the script. The script may not have been  very good but he did suit the script, very well. Capaldi, on the other hand, is a much better actor, with, IMHO, a much worse script, and this is the bit that annoys me. I know that (given a better script), Capaldi could take Dr Who to a place it hasn't been since Pertwee... but I guess it's all a matter of opinion...



^ and this... in spades


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 10, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> It was like the speech in 'Pacific Rim'!



That movie would have been great if they hadn't cast such a terrible actor in the lead role.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 10, 2014)

Would they really have locked Missy up without going through her pockets first? What kind of fucking amateurs are we dealing with here?


----------



## mauvais (Nov 10, 2014)

belboid said:


> And why were they even on a plane? Surely an underground bunker would make more sense.


Have you tried telling this to the USAF?


----------



## zoooo (Nov 10, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> Would they really have locked Missy up without going through her pockets first? What kind of fucking amateurs are we dealing with here?


I was just annoyed they had the two armed guards standing there listening to her say she was about to kill Osgood, watching her put lippy on clearly out of her handcuffs, and letting her kill someone and then themselves, and doing fuck all. Gah.


----------



## Chz (Nov 10, 2014)

I'm normally first to gag at such things, but I was touched by the nod to Nick Courtney. I think he'd have liked that, soppy as it was.


----------



## belboid (Nov 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> That's probably because they were using the Invasion as a reference point.  UNIT's headquarters when the Dr first meets the force (although he'd met the Brig before his promotion) is airborne.  (The Invasion was also very closely modelled by Rise of the Cybermen, the parallel universe story with Tenant.  Moffat's problem here was that he had nothing left to use from the Troughton tale except St Pauls and UNIT-in-an-aeroplane).



aah, you see, I just got the blatant nods to the Gremlins episode of The Twilight Zone.  There was some other film in there too, but I've forgotten what that was now. St Pauls' Dome opening up _was_ great.



mauvais said:


> Have you tried telling this to the USAF?


when they fly the pres, they tend to be taking him somewhere useful, or at least with a point to it. Where was the flight meant to be going?


----------



## belboid (Nov 10, 2014)

Oh, and I didnt actually think that Danny's valedictory speech was that bad.  Just wholly pointless, considering he was talking to a bunch of mindless automatons.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 10, 2014)

I got a slightly moist eye when the Doctor saluted wotsit at the end.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 10, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> ^^^ This.
> Probably the worst series of Dr Who I've ever seen.
> ... but at least Danny is dead.
> How the fuck anyone can compare this to Dr Who of old is beyond me...



It's beyond me as well. Cardboard rubbery sets (and acting) was all well and good back in the day but the new series (faults and all) is a much more superior, nuanced and well rounded beast. I shall always have a place in my heart for "classic Who" but it's a relic from yesteryear.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 10, 2014)

Nobody is comparing it as like for like because they are different shows in terms of budget, capability and so on. But they are the same in terms of general mythos etc, so parralels will be drawn. It's still written for the same audience, the family. Not cantankerous old bastards weeping for the crap baker of thier youth
For them as holding up old who as far better and smarter- I watched them.   Especially someone who skipped sylvester mcoys entire run as a 'non starter'. I'm afraid your argument is invalid.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 10, 2014)

Can't fault a doctor who treats his fans like this:



I'm sure past actors would do the same, but still...aww.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Nobody is comparing it as like for like because they are different shows in terms of budget, capability and so on. But they are the same in terms of general mythos etc, so parralels will be drawn. It's still written for the same audience, the family. Not cantankerous old bastards weeping for the crap baker of thier youth
> For them as holding up old who as far better and smarter- I watched them.   Especially someone who skipped sylvester mcoys entire run as a 'non starter'. I'm afraid your argument is invalid.


Oh dear!


----------



## Bonfirelight (Nov 10, 2014)

I'm not really a Dr who fan, but I watch it with the littleun, and Ive even occasionally enjoyed it.
This series though, mostly felt like a mess, full of segments that added nothing to the story, convoluted plots, inconsistent characters and nonsensical resolutions.
The amount of times I was asked "why is so and so doing that?" and realised I actually haven't got a clue was far too many for a kids show.
The writers seem incapable of just telling a story.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 10, 2014)

Turning the Brigadier into Iron fucking Man really was the lowest ebb of what history will come to call the Moffat Debacle.

poor Peter Capaldi. Awesome doctor while everything around him was shit.


----------



## belboid (Nov 10, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Turning the Brigadier into Iron fucking Man really was the lowest ebb of what history will come to call the Moffat Debacle.


It won't



> poor Peter Capaldi. Awesome doctor while everything around him was shit.


Well, except for Michele Gomez, Jenna Coleman, half the script, and St. Paul's retractable roof.


----------



## Cid (Nov 10, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> I've watched every season, with the exception of anything that contained Sylvester McCoy, because he was a non-starter.
> As bad as some people might think Matt Smith was, he played a perfect role in the script. The script may not have been  very good but he did suit the script, very well. Capaldi, on the other hand, is a much better actor, with, IMHO, a much worse script, and this is the bit that annoys me. I know that (given a better script), Capaldi could take Dr Who to a place it hasn't been since Pertwee... but I guess it's all a matter of opinion...



I think the last episode hammered this in really badly. Capaldi has been great in many ways, and Coleman's acting has responded, Gomez was excellent casting. But the tropes are there. The cliches are rattled out again and again. I quite liked the w3 death thing initially, but then the script just reverted to 'ah, it's the master with an army of cybermen'. What? What the fuck? Why? He's not an officer really, he's tormented. And he can't see Clara's grief. it's oh so tragic. Fuck off.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Nick frost as santa is delicious because of how if you were going undercover as santa it would make a good psuedonym. St. Nicholas. Frost. eh? eh?
> 
> it'll be shit tho, christmas ones always are



I can see it now; Santa re-unites Clara with Danny


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Nov 11, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> I can see it now; Santa re-unites Clara with Danny


By killing her:


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 11, 2014)

I'm sure Doctor Who has done evil Santas before?


----------



## belboid (Nov 11, 2014)

krtek a houby said:


> I'm sure Doctor Who has done evil Santas before?


Christmas Invasion/Runaway Bride.  They weren't the _real _Santa tho


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 11, 2014)

belboid said:


> Christmas Invasion/Runaway Bride.  They weren't the _real _Santa tho



If old Nick turns out to be a bad Santa, that would be agreeable on Xmas day. Be nice to see less schmaltz at Xmas and more non-schmaltz.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 11, 2014)

belboid said:


> Oh, and I didnt actually think that Danny's valedictory speech was that bad.  Just wholly pointless, considering he was talking to a bunch of mindless automatons.


 I always find that quite annoying in science fiction/fantasy - the idea that a 'moral' or central character is imune to the mind control device/ray etc.  You just know that whenever they become taken over, breaking free of that control and sacrificing themselves will be the plot resolution.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 11, 2014)

What was good this series:

Capaldi as the Doctor
Clara
Some great bits of dialogue


What was rubbish:

Pretty much everything else


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 11, 2014)

Why does the Master have to be written as if she's the Joker?


----------



## belboid (Nov 11, 2014)

she wasn't


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 11, 2014)

The masters mania, which wells refers to as 'like the joker', was laid in with simms second appearance in the role. When he got those special powers and started eating the scenery


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 11, 2014)

I've come to realise that this thread really spoils my enjoyment of the show.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 11, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've come to realise that this thread really spoils my enjoyment of the show.


 Must admit, I find it a bit weird discussing _any_ tv prog in detail like this. That's not a dig at anyone or the thread - and I've got a dozen posts on it!  It's just that I'm ancient and used to telly programmes being fairly inert, commented upon by little more than the tv review page in the paper.  Still feels strange being in a position to _know_ lots of details about the writers, plot devices, screenshots and stuff.  Anyway, that's me slowly coming to terms with tinternet .... oldie derail over.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 11, 2014)

Why couldn't the doctor repair Clara's bracelet? Isn't the whole thing based on Timelord tech?

How did Danny send back the afghan kid? From where?

HOw did he get his emotions back?

Why was the doctor reduced to standing around looking shocked all the time?

Why did nothing remotely threatening actually happen?


----------



## belboid (Nov 11, 2014)

fuck me, you didn't pay any attention to the programme, did you?

Please dont watch the christmas show


----------



## Wilf (Nov 11, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Why couldn't the doctor repair Clara's bracelet? Isn't the whole thing based on Timelord tech?
> 
> How did Danny send back the afghan kid? From where?
> 
> ...


 Y'see, back in the day, we'd have left Nancy Banks-Smith to say all this.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 12, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Why couldn't the doctor repair Clara's bracelet? Isn't the whole thing based on Timelord tech?
> 
> How did Danny send back the afghan kid? From where?
> 
> ...


 As far as he knew it had brought Danny back to Clara so why would he.
The boy was sent back using the bracelet,  from the nethersphere. see scene in cafe for how. As to how Danny kept his emotions I suppose that it's because he didn't  delet his emotions in the nethersphere and who knows what all those buttons Clara was pushing did. I don't feel that the Doctor spent that much time looking shocked so can't answer that and your last question just makes me feel we watched totally different programs but as we all see the things around us differently because of our experiences and thoughts I can live with it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2014)

the nethersphere sounds vaguely dirty to me. Anyone else?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> the nethersphere sounds vaguely dirty to me. Anyone else?


We all see the things around us differently because of our experiences and thoughts.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 12, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> As far as he knew it had brought Danny back to Clara so why would he.
> The boy was sent back using the bracelet,  from the nethersphere. see scene in cafe for how. As to how Danny kept his emotions I suppose that it's because he didn't  delet his emotions in the nethersphere and who knows what all those buttons Clara was pushing did. I don't feel that the Doctor spent that much time looking shocked so can't answer that and your last question just makes me feel we watched totally different programs but as we all see the things around us differently because of our experiences and thoughts I can live with it.


Clara could have asked the Dr to fix it to bring Danny back, though how a digital recording of Danny (which is what the Nethersphere was) translates into his actual body was never explained. Nor how he is able to communicate from within to Clara. 

Another poor effort from Moffat who simply cannot write stories at all.


----------



## belboid (Nov 12, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Clara could have asked the Dr to fix it to bring Danny back, though how a digital recording of Danny (which is what the Nethersphere was) translates into his actual body was never explained. Nor how he is able to communicate from within to Clara.
> 
> Another poor effort from Moffat who simply cannot write stories at all.


Fuck off.


----------



## belboid (Nov 12, 2014)

Some Dr Who stories written by Steven Moffat

The Empty Child" / "The Doctor Dances
The Girl in the Fireplace
Blink
Let's Kill Hitler
Asylum of the Daleks
The Name of the Doctor
The Day of the Doctor
The Time of the Doctor
Deep Breath
Into the Dalek
Listen

Not to mention all his pre-Who stuff, or Sherlock


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2014)

I remember when blink aired and everybody promptly lost their minds with appreciation, me included. Some hailed moffat as a prophet, the ultimate new broom to sweep out RTD's cobwebs. But awesome wells has spoken, so he's obviously shit. Cancer if you disagree.


----------



## Santino (Nov 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> the nethersphere sounds vaguely dirty to me. Anyone else?


 It was also the title of Ruddy Yurts' 2002 album with the Assyrian bongo player, Dido Ginger.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 12, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've come to realise that this thread really spoils my enjoyment of the show.



Make use of the ignore function!

I'm not calling anyone out, but I've put 3 people on ignore in my 12 years here....one sick Koppite that is poison in the Everton thread, and two moaners that post in the Doctor Who thread. Makes a world of difference to my enjoyment of this forum.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 12, 2014)

belboid said:


> Oh, and I didnt actually think that Danny's valedictory speech was that bad.  Just wholly pointless, considering he was talking to a bunch of mindless automatons.


But were they mindless? Surely they all had their inhibitors unactivated which was why they hung around the graveyard rather than going on a killing spree.
And if all the cyberman were mindless why weren't Danny, and the Brigader, mindless too?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2014)

it was all a set up for capaldi's 'you win' to the mistress. Because we've never had that moral conflict played out before.


----------



## belboid (Nov 12, 2014)

redsquirrel said:


> But were they mindless? Surely they all had their inhibitors unactivated which was why they hung around the graveyard rather than going on a killing spree.
> And if all the cyberman were mindless why weren't Danny, and the Brigader, mindless too?


mm, quite possibly. Danny clearly didnt activate his inhibitor, we know that, cos we watched it.  The others....I got the impression that while they had no humanity left, they hadn't really learned what it was to be a cyberman yet, and so were in a state of confusion.  Altho that doesn't account for the Brigadier


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2014)

lethbridge senior was pure fan service. It has no logical plot explanation


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Nov 12, 2014)

I reckon either when he was in the Nethersphere he knew something was dodgy and didn't buy into it or when he 'woke'  he was just too strong a personality to become a cyberman because he is the FUCKING BRIGADIER!! or as DotCommunist  just said it was pure fan service which is enough reason for me !!


----------



## Santino (Nov 12, 2014)

The whole season was shot through with the Doctor's contempt for soldiers, but then it was not one but two soldiers, Danny and the Brigadier, who saved the day.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 12, 2014)

1/2 a dp there


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 12, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Clara could have asked the Dr to fix it to bring Danny back, though how a digital recording of Danny (which is what the Nethersphere was) translates into his actual body was never explained. Nor how he is able to communicate from within to Clara.
> 
> Another poor effort from Moffat who simply cannot write stories at all.


oh dear, never mind then


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> lethbridge senior was pure fan service. It has no logical plot explanation[/QUOTE
> there is a precedent though with what's her name from torchwood in doomsday


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> it was all a set up for capaldi's 'you win' to the mistress. Because we've never had that moral conflict played out before.


Resurrection of the Daleks is reviled and yet did pretty much the same thing better when the Doctor was going to kill Davros.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 12, 2014)

Santino said:


> The whole season was shot through with the Doctor's contempt for soldiers, but then it was not one but two soldiers, Danny and the Brigadier, who saved the day.



Not just hate for soldiers but self-loathing. He was the "War Doctor", don't forget...


----------



## Wilf (Nov 12, 2014)

belboid said:


> Some Dr Who stories written by Steven Moffat
> 
> The Empty Child" / "The Doctor Dances
> The Girl in the Fireplace
> ...


 So, he never reached the heights of _Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps_?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 12, 2014)

belboid said:


> Sherlock


Sherlock is shit, to be fair.

But Blink was brilliant, as was the Empty Child.

We do need to get back to that sort of thing, and away from the Dr being the Messiah and/or Superman.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> lethbridge senior was pure fan service. It has no logical plot explanation


I didn't like it.  The portrait was service.  I don't like to think of the Brig as a cyberman. I want to remember him as he was. :sobs:


----------



## Wilf (Nov 12, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> lethbridge senior was pure fan service. It has no logical plot explanation


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 12, 2014)

I despise Moffat for his sexism, racism and arrogance, but I love the stories he's written when they work well. As much as he has proven to me to be a vile individual, I've thoroughly enjoyed this series and he's absolutely upped his game (in a good way) wrt his previous sexism.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 12, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> racism


Anyone see Tomb of the Cybermen on Sunday.  Jeepers, the past _was_ a foreign country, wasn't it?


----------



## belboid (Nov 12, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> racism


??


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 12, 2014)

belboid said:


> ??



For a start, that China Town episode of Sherlock, good god.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 13, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> For a start, that China Town episode of Sherlock, good god.


I think I need a bigger clue than that as I'm currently baffled by your post.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 13, 2014)




----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 13, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I despise Moffat for his sexism, racism and arrogance, but I love the stories he's written when they work well. As much as he has proven to me to be a vile individual, I've thoroughly enjoyed this series and he's absolutely upped his game (in a good way) wrt his previous sexism.


racism?


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 13, 2014)

There's certainly a lot of evidence that compared to RTD, Moffatt's series rarely write or cast black characters, and when they do, those characters generally conform to ethnic stereotypes.   Not that Moffatt was blameless (little telly is), but having Mickey - whose characteristics were not black as much as they were simply working class, and Martha - who was a doctor... as prominent main characters, was exactly the kind of racially sensitive casting that all telly should be doing as standard in this day and age. 

With Moffatt, though - until Danny there where no recurring BME characters (correct me if i'm wrong), and when characters do appear in individual stories, they have generally conformed to ethnic stereotype (qv - the travel-sick teenager in this series: feckless and disaffected - one of the school's notoriously 'difficult' kids).  If you look at 'Sherlock', Moffatt's other headline project, not only is there a massive absence of BME characters, but there is, as Vintage Paw says, that absolutely dreadful espisode with all the Chinese Triad stuff.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 13, 2014)

I was searching for something else, but stumbled upon this. It's one of the best things I've read about the Moffat era: http://www.philipsandifer.com/2014/03/guest-post-steven-moffat-case-for.html

It focuses mostly on Moffat's neo-liberalism, while spending some time also on gender, sexism, heteronormativity (and an also-ran mention of racism, yes). 

Bloody good piece.

(Written before the latest Capaldi series.)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 13, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> Bloody good piece.



I'm not so sure. "Starship UK is all of Britain" claims the author. Scotland has it's own space whale, according to the actual broadcast episode. The author clearly does not recognise, or actively dismisses, the concept of Scottish nationhood, furthermore...


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 14, 2014)

Just got around to watching the finale double bill last night.  Mostly enjoyed it but I stand by my earlier comments about the series in general: Capaldi is massively better than the last two, there've been some great plot ideas, but the execution still seems cobbled together far too often.  Clara has developed well as a character and I like the relationship with Capaldi's doctor, but still can't summon up a rat's fart's worth of interest in her relationship with Danny, so it feels to me that they wasted large chunks of the series on this that could have been better used creating more scary, more convincing and more deeply satisfying episodes out of some of the could've-been-better ones.

Unless I've missed something while catching up on this thread this morning, though, I seem to be the only person who fucking hated Missy? 

Gomez's schtick worked perfectly in Green Wing where the sheer why-the-fuck-is-she-doing-that-ness of all that gurning and cavorting around was what made it funny.  The odd cartoonish or comically exaggerated villain is one thing, but Missy was even more cardboard and 2D than that - it was like watching pantomime, or Punch and Judy.  Particularly once it was clear the cybermen weren't going to do anything truly nasty (I'm in the minority of two or three here who found them more scary than daleks as a child, so I was hopeful...) I could really have done with a bit less skipping and a bit more threat from the supposed arch-villain.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> There's certainly a lot of evidence that compared to RTD, Moffatt's series rarely write or cast black characters, and when they do, those characters generally conform to ethnic stereotypes.   Not that Moffatt was blameless (little telly is), but having Mickey - whose characteristics were not black as much as they were simply working class, and Martha - who was a doctor... as prominent main characters, was exactly the kind of racially sensitive casting that all telly should be doing as standard in this day and age.
> 
> With Moffatt, though - until Danny there where no recurring BME characters (correct me if i'm wrong), and when characters do appear in individual stories, they have generally conformed to ethnic stereotype (qv - the travel-sick teenager in this series: feckless and disaffected - one of the school's notoriously 'difficult' kids).  If you look at 'Sherlock', Moffatt's other headline project, not only is there a massive absence of BME characters, but there is, as Vintage Paw says, that absolutely dreadful espisode with all the Chinese Triad stuff.


I don't necessarily disagree, but I think what you are suggesting implies intent. Moffat, at worst, may be ignorant. That may be a fair charge to level at his writing, but to suggest he is racist? Come on! You need stronger evidence surely?

I think on balance RTD era stories were more satisfying and the companions more interesting. But is it necessary that Moffat include more minority characters? 

Which was the triad episode?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 14, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I was searching for something else, but stumbled upon this. It's one of the best things I've read about the Moffat era: http://www.philipsandifer.com/2014/03/guest-post-steven-moffat-case-for.html
> 
> It focuses mostly on Moffat's neo-liberalism, while spending some time also on gender, sexism, heteronormativity (and an also-ran mention of racism, yes).



Christ that's depressing reading isn't it? I have to agree with most of it though. The whole thing with Amy's forced pregnancy, and the fact that the whole ordeal was basically forgotten about from one week to the next and then dragged up again for a series finale, was a definite low point. It didn't even make any fucking sense.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 14, 2014)

billy_bob said:


> Gomez's schtick worked perfectly in Green Wing where the sheer why-the-fuck-is-she-doing-that-ness of all that gurning and cavorting around was what made it funny.  The odd cartoonish or comically exaggerated villain is one thing, but Missy was even more cardboard and 2D than that - it was like watching pantomime, or Punch and Judy.  Particularly once it was clear the cybermen weren't going to do anything truly nasty (I'm in the minority of two or three here who found them more scary than daleks as a child, so I was hopeful...) I could really have done with a bit less skipping and a bit more threat from the supposed arch-villain.



I think it worked pretty well because of the sucker-punch at the end. Missy wasn't cooking up some orgy of destruction for the sake of it (a weakness of many super villains, including previous Masters) she was simply going to extreme lengths to impress the closest thing she has in the universe to a friend. You could say that the Master going (relatively) soft as soon as she turns female is another example of reversion to sexist tropes but I think it's more a case of the Master acting like a proper character with actual motivations for doing stuff, something Moffat's previous female characters have often fallen short of.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 14, 2014)

Remembrance of the Daleks is ace!


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I don't necessarily disagree, but I think what you are suggesting implies intent. Moffat, at worst, may be ignorant. That may be a fair charge to level at his writing, but to suggest he is racist? Come on! You need stronger evidence surely?
> 
> I think on balance RTD era stories were more satisfying and the companions more interesting. But is it necessary that Moffat include more minority characters?
> 
> Which was the triad episode?



well, i don't know if i'd actually say he was deliberately racist...  but he's one of the most prominent writers and showrunners in UK telly.  This stuff will have been mentioned to him more than once as part of his career over the last couple of decades.  And he continues to choose to ignore it - we don't know why.


The triad thing was the middle episode of Sherlock season two, iirc.  Some mystery signal being left at murder scenes and a chinese circus in town.  The climactic scene happened in some kind of tunnel, iirc.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 14, 2014)

A brief personal reaction to _The Blind Banker_, a Sherlock episode that relied heavily on orientalism: http://madammiaow.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/sherlock-and-wily-orientals-bbc-stuck.html


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 14, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> A brief personal reaction to _The Blind Banker_, a Sherlock episode that relied heavily on orientalism: http://madammiaow.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/sherlock-and-wily-orientals-bbc-stuck.html


That's the fella.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 14, 2014)

We are, as a nation, far more happy to accept orientalism than we are other types of racism in our media. Very prevalent in our friends across the pond as well. Perhaps apt this was called the BLIND banker, since we are often collectively blind to it.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> well, i don't know if i'd actually say he was deliberately racist...  but he's one of the most prominent writers and showrunners in UK telly.  This stuff will have been mentioned to him more than once as part of his career over the last couple of decades.  And he continues to choose to ignore it - we don't know why.
> 
> 
> The triad thing was the middle episode of Sherlock season two, iirc.  Some mystery signal being left at murder scenes and a chinese circus in town.  The climactic scene happened in some kind of tunnel, iirc.


I don't remember that. I must have missed it.

Is it true to say he would have been made aware of racial issues? I have no idea what the writing culture is like in the BBC. I would hope writers are aware, but it's a different world.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I don't remember that. I must have missed it.
> 
> Is it true to say he would have been made aware of racial issues? I have no idea what the writing culture is like in the BBC. I would hope writers are aware, but it's a different world.



Who knows what he is or isn't aware of. All the more reason for it to be talked about.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I don't remember that. I must have missed it.
> 
> Is it true to say he would have been made aware of racial issues? I have no idea what the writing culture is like in the BBC. I would hope writers are aware, but it's a different world.


he lives in Britain (in London, afaia) and writes about people in the 21st century.  there are no bloody excuses for thinking the world is near-universally white and middle class, and that the exceptions to that are (generally comedic) stereotypes of proles/BME people.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> We are, as a nation, far more happy to accept orientalism than we are other types of racism in our media. Very prevalent in our friends across the pond as well. Perhaps apt this was called the BLIND banker, since we are often collectively blind to it.




do 'honourable' watch in the news media when a Japanese sportsman or bigwig visits.

the news scripters can't help themselves.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 14, 2014)

honlable


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 15, 2014)

Same person who wrote that Blind Banker piece I linked to earlier, http://www.annachen.co.uk/doctor-who-review-death-in-heaven/ -- about the most recent series finale.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 15, 2014)

oops belboid 's going to tear his hair out, not a fan of ms Chen iirc


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 15, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> We are, as a nation, far more happy to accept orientalism than we are other types of racism in our media. Very prevalent in our friends across the pond as well. Perhaps apt this was called the BLIND banker, since we are often collectively blind to it.



Good point; it's from another era but the Talons of Weng Chiang - watched in not too long ago & wow; exceptionally offensive!


----------



## belboid (Nov 15, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> oops belboid 's going to tear his hair out, not a fan of ms Chen iirc


The fact that I dislike the useless fraud Chen in no way biases my opinion, that that's a shit article, with its decent points lost amidst the utter wank.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 15, 2014)

belboid said:


> The fact that I dislike the useless fraud Chen in no way biases my opinion, that that's a shit article, with its decent points lost amidst the utter wank.



Rather too many knowing cultural references and free-range imagery in there for me to make much sense of it.



> a dream, a mish-mash of half-remembered images and tropes



Never a truer word spoken.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 17, 2014)

Spoiler: Christmas spoilers if you didn't see Children in Need



Clara is in the Christmas episode. Surprised?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 18, 2014)

http://metro.co.uk/2014/11/12/docto...shell-reprise-her-role-as-the-master-4945651/

Gomez will return as Missy after all


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2014)

Who cakes!


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2014)

Moffat confirms what we all knew, that its now canon that the Doc can be female. Says gender is fluid on Gallifrey. Hints that the next doc should be a woman.

which is great n all but what with how dissatisfied people are with moffats writing of female characters... could go horribly wrong.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2014)

If gender is so fluid on Gallifrey, how is it that the Doctor can recognise everyone who regenerates to the same gender, but not the Master/Missy when she regenerated as a woman? 
And why did they play the gender swap as a big reveal? And why would the Master choose a name he thinks is gender specific? (When actually, the degree isn't).


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2014)

welcome to the glorious world of retconning (retroactiive continuity) Danny

it happens a lot with long running sf/fantasy series


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2014)

Is there a forum I can join to point out the inconsistencies and get cross about them?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2014)

http://www.whovianlove.com/


----------



## Chz (Dec 9, 2014)

Well, Gallifrey Base is the definitive site but if you think there's a rant/nitpick/insane rambling that hasn't already been posted you'll be in for a surprise.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2014)

Chz said:


> Well, Gallifrey Base is the definitive site but if you think there's a rant/nitpick/insane rambling that hasn't already been posted you'll be in for a surprise.


  Oh, I wouldn't be surprised, believe me.

Mind you, my requirements are quite specific.  I need a site that accepts only the first 4 and the latest 4 Doctors as canon.

(There were of course other regenerations, but sadly the TV series' made of them were fictional dramatisations, rather than documentaries.  Probably loosely based on a memoir of someone who didn't really understand what was going on.  Unfortunate that they were made, as it causes confusion, but apparently children enjoyed them).


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2014)

you would make a quality troll on Gallifrey Base with your line on this. Geek rage would ensue


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> you would make a quality troll on Gallifrey Base with your line on this. Geek rage would ensue


I think I'd like that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2014)

I may start a Truevian website.

Heretics sometimes call us Octavians, as we currently accept the biographies of 8 serialised Doctors, but that's inaccurate for two reasons.  First, there will be further Doctors in the future.  Secondly, the 4 Canonical Doctors of Modern Times occasionally refer to events from the Dark Era (of the fictionalised, garbled dramas). There are, we must all accept, true events that took place during this time, but sadly the accounts of them are buried in amongst the confused and inaccurate portrayals we have left to us by the Dark Era dramatists.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 9, 2014)

The fourth Doctor even refered to events experienced by a fictional time travelling human as though they were his own experiences.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 9, 2014)

Mistakenly just referred to DW as a "kid's TV show" to a colleague over IM:


> It was never a kids' TV show.
> It was never made by the children's telly department, it was made by the drama department.
> And it was designed for a family audience so adults had to be able to enjoy it too.
> Hence the politics and violence that tended to surface every now and then.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 9, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> The fourth Doctor even refered to events experienced by a fictional time travelling human as though they were his own experiences.


Did he mention the Cushing films? 

He must have had concussion.


----------



## Santino (Dec 9, 2014)

Time War


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Mistakenly just referred to DW as a "kid's TV show" to a colleague over IM:




river in egypt lol

Theres some clever over-the-kids-heads stuff going on in the Ice Age films. Still kids films.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Dec 9, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> I may start a Truevian website.
> 
> Heretics sometimes call us Octavians, as we currently accept the biographies of 8 serialised Doctors, but that's inaccurate for two reasons.  First, there will be further Doctors in the future.  Secondly, the 4 Canonical Doctors of Modern Times occasionally refer to events from the Dark Era (of the fictionalised, garbled dramas). There are, we must all accept, true events that took place during this time, but sadly the accounts of them are buried in amongst the confused and inaccurate portrayals we have left to us by the Dark Era dramatists.



People's Front of Gallifrey?! Fuck off! We're the Gallifreyan's People's Front!

SPLITTERS!


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Dec 9, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> river in egypt lol
> 
> Theres some clever over-the-kids-heads stuff going on in the Ice Age films. Still kids films.


Indeed: Ben and Holly's Little Kingdom is a dark satire regarding the idiocy of the ruler class and their subjugation of the workers to the point where work is all they know. But it's still aimed at my toddler 


*it is awesome though*


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 9, 2014)

Stoppit and Tidyup was about the ongoing struggle between capitalism and communism.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 9, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Did he mention the Cushing films?
> 
> He must have had concussion.


When he is interrogated by Davros in The Genesis of the Daleks he mentions the Daleks being beaten by the Earths Magnetic core. That was a Cushing thing.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 10, 2014)

hartnell first, both cushing films were based on the tv show


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 10, 2014)

ginger_syn said:


> hartnell first, both cushing films were based on the tv show


They were but I'm still right.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 10, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> They were but I'm still right.


ginger_syn  In the TV version, the Daleks have mined down to the centre of the Earth and are trying to blow out its magnetic core with a bomb.  Ian puts some twigs in the way of the bomb, and their plan is foiled (much of Bedfordshire cops it, unfortunately, though).

I can't remember the film, as it was the 70s that I last saw it.  But I believe CNT36 is saying that it was the magnetic core of the Earth _itself_ that somehow foiled the Daleks.  (Perhaps they stuck to it or something).


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2014)

> My favorite fan theory is the retcon of Peter Cushing's _Doctor Who_... The fellow we see in the movies was actually a Torchwood agent who scavenged together bits of alien technology to build his own TARDIS. He may or may not have suffered a memory fugue similar to that of Jackson Lake in "The Next Doctor" but in any case he assumed the identity of the mysterious Doctor, even to the point of erroneously naming himself with Torchwood's code name "Dr. Who."



hmm


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> ginger_syn  In the TV version, the Daleks have mined down to the centre of the Earth and are trying to blow out its magnetic core with a bomb.  Ian puts some twigs in the way of the bomb, and their plan is foiled (much of Bedfordshire cops it, unfortunately, though).
> 
> I can't remember the film, as it was the 70s that I last saw it.  But I believe CNT36 is saying that it was the magnetic core of the Earth _itself_ that somehow foiled the Daleks.  (Perhaps they stuck to it or something).


 Pretty much the end of Doomsday with the void but with added "Yeah, bitch! Magnets!"


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 10, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> hmm


There's a new adventures novel where he is from the land of fiction (as seen in the mind robber) that is leaking into our reality or some such. He's considerably less morally ambiguous than the Seventh Doctor and see's him as the greatest threat to the universe.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 10, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> Pretty much the end of Doomsday with the void but with added "Yeah, bitch! Magnets!"


Who is in the wedding dress?


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Who is in the wedding dress?


Are you thinking of the Big Bang with Amy's wedding? I mean this with the Daleks and the Cybermen. Basically the Daleks in the Cushing film get pulled into the core and destroyed.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 10, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> I mean this with the Daleks and the Cybermen.


Yes, that.  It ends with a random Wedding Dress woman in the Tardis.  We come to know her as Donna Noble.  (And her grandad was in the Peter Cushing films).


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 10, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, that.  It ends with a random Wedding Dress woman in the Tardis.  We come to know her as Donna Noble.  (And her grandad was in the Peter Cushing films).


A bit dense today sorry. Yeah, he was in the second one.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 11, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> ginger_syn  In the TV version, the Daleks have mined down to the centre of the Earth and are trying to blow out its magnetic core with a bomb.  Ian puts some twigs in the way of the bomb, and their plan is foiled (much of Bedfordshire cops it, unfortunately, though).
> 
> I can't remember the film, as it was the 70s that I last saw it.  But I believe CNT36 is saying that it was the magnetic core of the Earth _itself_ that somehow foiled the Daleks.  (Perhaps they stuck to it or something).


 ah ok,it's been a quite while since I've watched the film and the hartnell episodes,shall have to have a rewatch


----------



## 8den (Dec 11, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, that.  It ends with a random Wedding Dress woman in the Tardis.  We come to know her as Donna Noble.  (And her grandad was in the Peter Cushing films).



Did you just relegate Bernard Cribbins, noted thespian, whose worked with Hitchcock, Sellers, on Fawlty Towers, and is THE VOICE OF THE FUCKING WOMBLES, to Katherine Tate's granddad?


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## danny la rouge (Dec 11, 2014)

8den said:


> Did you just relegate Bernard Cribbins, noted thespian, whose worked with Hitchcock, Sellers, on Fawlty Towers, and is THE VOICE OF THE FUCKING WOMBLES, and Katherine Tate's granddad?


No.


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## prunus (Dec 13, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> No.



Good.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 13, 2014)

Wilf was the best companion the Doc's ever had.


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 13, 2014)

8den said:


> Did you just relegate Bernard Cribbins, noted thespian, whose worked with Hitchcock, Sellers, on Fawlty Towers, and is THE VOICE OF THE FUCKING WOMBLES, to Katherine Tate's granddad?



You haven't even mentioned his career in music.


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## stuff_it (Dec 13, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> ginger_syn  In the TV version, the Daleks have mined down to the centre of the Earth and are trying to blow out its magnetic core with a bomb.  Ian puts some twigs in the way of the bomb, and their plan is foiled (much of Bedfordshire cops it, unfortunately, though).
> 
> I can't remember the film, as it was the 70s that I last saw it.  But I believe CNT36 is saying that it was the magnetic core of the Earth _itself_ that somehow foiled the Daleks.  (Perhaps they stuck to it or something).


I quite like the idea that they are down there eternally rolling around on the surface of the iron core, trapped there by a combination of magnetism, gravity and the complete inability to negotiate stairs.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 13, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> You haven't even mentioned his career in music.


Right said fred


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## Cid (Dec 13, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> I may start a Truevian website.
> 
> Heretics sometimes call us Octavians, as we currently accept the biographies of 8 serialised Doctors, but that's inaccurate for two reasons.  First, there will be further Doctors in the future.  Secondly, the 4 Canonical Doctors of Modern Times occasionally refer to events from the Dark Era (of the fictionalised, garbled dramas). There are, we must all accept, true events that took place during this time, but sadly the accounts of them are buried in amongst the confused and inaccurate portrayals we have left to us by the Dark Era dramatists.



I agree, however I do think there is some valid information to be found in Dark Era material. In the case of the eighth doctor we seem to have an accurate portrayal of a true incarnation which has - via some distortion in time and space - been inserted into a totally inaccurate, frankly deranged account.


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 13, 2014)

http://www.cultbox.co.uk/news/headlines/doctor-who-exec-moffat-explains-orson-pink-mystery

bit of a cop out mr moff


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 14, 2014)

Yep, I call cop out. 

That last episode would have worked fine if not for that dreadful scene with Danny's voice from beyond the grave, and the little kid magically coming back to life.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 15, 2014)

it had tanked some time before that I recon


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## danny la rouge (Dec 15, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> it had tanked some time before that I recon


Yep.  Second episode of the pair was confused, empty pish.  All noise and no substance.  Like a fart.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2014)

while we wait for the christmas episode, lets recall

ten times the doctor was a raging bellend


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## danny la rouge (Dec 24, 2014)

11. He forcibly abandoned his granddaughter on a post Apocalyptic planet with only one shoe, deciding on her behalf she was to mate with a human, who had only one life-span. He promised to return for her, but didn't.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 24, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> 11. He forcibly abandoned his granddaughter on a post Apocalyptic planet with only one shoe, deciding on her behalf she was to mate with a human, who had only one life-span. He promised to return for her, but didn't.



In his defence on that one - it doesn't matter when in his time line he returns as long as it's not too late in hers.


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## danny la rouge (Dec 24, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> In his defence on that one - it doesn't matter when in his time line he returns as long as it's not too late in hers.


Locking your granddaughter out of the Tardis and buggering off is a cunt's trick.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 24, 2014)

that article doesn't even mention the genocide of the wyrnn either


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 24, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> 11. He forcibly abandoned his granddaughter on a post Apocalyptic planet with only one shoe, deciding on her behalf she was to mate with a human, who had only one life-span. He promised to return for her, but didn't.



I read a missing adventure  novel in which she eventually just knicks  the masters tardis while he is on earth trying to co opt the reminants of the dalek invasion force.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 24, 2014)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I read a missing adventure  novel in which she eventually just knicks  the masters tardis while he is on earth trying to co opt the reminants of the dalek invasion force.


epub?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 24, 2014)

No  i actually purchased the fucker.


This was in my yonger wilder years.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 24, 2014)

Admittedly  i got mosy of my virgin published who nevels when forbidden planet was selling them for a pound fifty  after the beeb recalled  the license.

I mainly have new adventures  but i think the average quality of the missing adventures  was better.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 24, 2014)

7nth and the land of fiction was missing adventures right?

had a lot of time for that chris kwedge. Good companion, confined to pages


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 24, 2014)

I did love the fact the first book the beeb published  after getting the license  back was  the 8 doctors. A full nevel desperatly trying to apologise for the tv movie.


The opening lines were essentially "WTF that was the worst regeneration ever. Why thr fuck did i say i was half human? Shit well at least i just kissed that woman not chocked her like perri"


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 24, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> 7nth and the land of fiction was missing adventures right?
> 
> had a lot of time for that chris kwedge. Good companion, confined to pages



Missing  adventures were  the ones with classic doctors and were said to take place between specific TV episodes. They had black covers to the new adventures white covers.

Cwej  was alright. Mind you by  that point  i was beginning to  flag.

I don't  have much from not long after they join


But they are in one of my favourites "the also people".  The in all but name crossover with the ian banks culture novels


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 24, 2014)

Mind you i never touched those adventures  of benice summerfeild books.  Thats a step too far.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 24, 2014)

And i didn't  enjoy damaged goods.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2014)

that was better than most christmas episodes. aliens/inception/santa

internally consistent. A good santa. One of the elves was the geordie on late series Misfits.

and ma says the black woman was previously of Coronation Street.

I think the List of things the shop assistant blonde woman held at the end was a nod to eachreference but I didn't read it all


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## zoooo (Dec 25, 2014)

I only managed to read Aliens and Thrones marathon. Was there anything Thronesy?

I liked her character best. Quite sad and sweet.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> aliens/inception/santa



Videodrome (or maybe Poltergeist) too.

That was one of the better Xmas episodes, genuine festive lols at Santa and the Elves.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2014)

other than little/people tyrion? hmm- winter setting?

I did enjoy the running 'thats racist' gag at the start


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Videodrome (or maybe Poltergeist) too.
> 
> That was one of the better Xmas episodes, genuine festive lols at Santa and the Elves.




agreed, it managed chrimbo family fayre without being as just wtaf like they normally are.

it made more sense than the robin hood episode!


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2014)

oh and the tangerine gag- its funny cos its true


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2014)

"There's a horror film called Alien? That's really offensive!"


----------



## Cloo (Dec 25, 2014)

zoooo said:


> I only managed to read Aliens and Thrones marathon. Was there anything Thronesy?
> 
> I liked her character best. Quite sad and sweet.


Also, Thing from Another World and Miracle on 34th Street (or whichever street it is)

This was better than most Xmas ones in not playing 'Top this!' and just sticking with the sort of the thing Who does well.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 25, 2014)

Nice to see Dan Starkey (Strax and other Sontarans) get a gig needing a bit less prosthetics.

Oh, and the professor was played by Pat Troughton's son Michael.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2014)

final nail in danny's coffin clearly. He's dead fo sho now


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 25, 2014)

I very much liked it. Best Xmas episode in years.

I really was expecting Clara to bow out at the end in some way or another. I suppose rumours of her leaving were much exaggerated. It will be interesting to see what happens with their dynamic now. Or maybe she'll leave in the first episode of the next series. That would be interesting.


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## William of Walworth (Dec 25, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I very much liked it. *Best Xmas episode in years.*




Got to agree. Brilliant!


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2014)

practical pj's are strangely hot also. Just putting it out there.

I did like old clara turning the 'he was impossible' line around. That was entirely for ze attentive fanz dem


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## Cloo (Dec 25, 2014)

And yet again in this episode, the series has done itself proud in avoiding 'token woman in a group' scenario.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 25, 2014)

Speculation from another board: Is Shona the one who gives Clara the Doctor's number?


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## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2014)

*Looks about*  Well, I know none of _this_ is real!


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## Cloo (Dec 25, 2014)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Speculation from another board: Is Shona the one who gives Clara the Doctor's number?


I thought it had already been spelt out that The Master/Missy gave it to her.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 25, 2014)

Cloo said:


> I thought it had already been spelt out that The Master/Missy gave it to her.



Ah, possibly. I got a bit confused about Missy, tbh.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 26, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> that was better than most christmas episodes. aliens/inception/santa
> 
> internally consistent. A good santa. One of the elves was the geordie on late series Misfits.
> 
> ...



And one of the elves was the scouser in Misfits! What are the chances?

A cut above the usual xmas cheese fests. Nick Frost was excellent. 

"How do you get all the presents on the sleigh?"

"It's bigger on the inside"

But... bloody Clara! Arrrgh.


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## free spirit (Dec 26, 2014)

fucksticks, it doesn't seem to be on virgin's catch up thingy.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 26, 2014)

free spirit said:


> fucksticks, it doesn't seem to be on virgin's catch up thingy.



iplayer?


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## free spirit (Dec 26, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> iplayer?


apparently not either


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 26, 2014)

free spirit said:


> apparently not either



Bugger. That's my plans scuppered then.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 26, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02ct985/doctor-who-last-christmas

Found it first try 

free spirit


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## free spirit (Dec 26, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02ct985/doctor-who-last-christmas
> 
> Found it first try


maybe on the interweb, but not via virgin on the telebox.

fuck it, I might go and watch it in bed on the laptop then.

eta cheers for the link


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 26, 2014)

Ah, didn't realise you meant iplayer on the telly. Very annoying. At least you can watch it somehow though. Enjoy


----------



## free spirit (Dec 26, 2014)

ok that was good, but now I'm concerned about the concept of entering dream land, which isn't good for 5am


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## CNT36 (Dec 26, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> I very much liked it. Best Xmas episode in years.
> 
> I really was expecting Clara to bow out at the end in some way or another. I suppose rumours of her leaving were much exaggerated. It will be interesting to see what happens with their dynamic now. Or maybe she'll leave in the first episode of the next series. That would be interesting.


They wrote an almost perfect ending for her. When she does fuck off it will disappoint. Best Christmas special since the return?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 26, 2014)

The thing , check
Alien, check
Inception , check



Can't say I was overly impressed but I must remember it's a Christmas special


----------



## felixthecat (Dec 26, 2014)

I really enjoyed that. Nick Frost as FC  was a perfect bit of casting.

Keep going like that and I might start watching regularly again.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 26, 2014)

Just watched it, best xmas special in a long time and better than a fair few of the episodes from the last season.



Vintage Paw said:


> Clara... maybe she'll leave in the first episode of the next series



Nope:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-30602537


----------



## Helen Back (Dec 26, 2014)

They wasted the opportunity to explain the bad science and writing of the last series by saying they've been dreaming since s8e01. Remember Robin Hood's parting words to The Doctor? "I'm as real as you are, Doctor." which could have meant they were dreaming even that far back. Maybe Danny was a dream? Except the audience saw him in parts where neither Clara not The Doctor were present.


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## CNT36 (Dec 26, 2014)

Helen Back said:


> They wasted the opportunity to explain the bad science and writing of the last series by saying they've been dreaming since s8e01. Remember Robin Hood's parting words to The Doctor? "I'm as real as you are, Doctor." which could have meant they were dreaming even that far back. Maybe Danny was a dream? Except the audience saw him in parts where neither Clara not The Doctor were present.


They could still be dreaming. I expected the tangerine at the end to be as debated as dicaprio's spinning top. Maybe the old Clara was the real one and they were attacked again returning to a reality neither would fight. Enjoyed the "dreamy weamy" line.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 27, 2014)

Best Christmas reference

The doctor saying Yippee-ki-yay


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## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 27, 2014)

Helen Back said:


> They wasted the opportunity to explain the bad science and writing of the last series by saying they've been dreaming since s8e01. Remember Robin Hood's parting words to The Doctor? "I'm as real as you are, Doctor." which could have meant they were dreaming even that far back. Maybe Danny was a dream? Except the audience saw him in parts where neither Clara not The Doctor were present.



The doctor shot jr


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## zoooo (Dec 28, 2014)

Shona was great, hope she comes back.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 28, 2014)

That was pretty decent. I like how there was a subtle seasonal touch in that the monsters looked like brussel sprouts.


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## Epona (Dec 28, 2014)

Only just got a chance to post about it, but I thoroughly enjoyed that.  I started out thinking it had a little bit of silly with the whole Santa thing, but actually the episode (compared to most Xmas episodes of late) had some complexity (loved the whole inception thing) and emotion to it.  The scene with Clara and Danny was very touching and sad.  And in places it was quite scary for teatime on Xmas day.

Best Xmas episode in a while IMO.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 30, 2014)

I thought it was brilliant, the best special yet. 

Did anyone else think that it was also setting things up for the Doctor to be less of a grumpy twat in the next series? It seemed like it at the end. 

I think Helen Back further up thread made a good point as well, this story could explain the Robin Hood and giant forest episodes quite nicely. But that would mean Danny didn't die, which could mean he would come back; which would be very bad...


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 30, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I think Helen Back further up thread made a good point as well, this story could explain the Robin Hood and giant forest episodes quite nicely. But that would mean Danny didn't die, which could mean he would come back; which would be very bad...



I think crap writing explains those episodes better tbh.

That christmas special was good, but there was some truly awful bits of dialogue. Much of Santa and the elves' witty banter fell flat. As usual with doctor who, the attentions of a script editor could have made all the difference.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Dec 30, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> I think crap writing explains those episodes better tbh.
> .



I do too, but we can dream


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## CNT36 (Dec 30, 2014)

The place the Doctor awoke looked a lot like the dream/suggestion/whatever he had used to con Clara after Danny died. Remember the best scene of that entire two-parter. Perhaps the truth is that anything interesting or well written is a dream or scam of some kind and that is why the Doctors' such a grumpy fuck.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2014)

apparently coleman was leaving- as aged clara- but signed on for another season cos she's loving it so they shot the *final* awakening


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 30, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> apparently coleman was leaving- as aged clara- but signed on for another season cos she's loving it so they shot the *final* awakening



It felt like it should have ended with older Clara. I was a bit surprised when it didn't, tbh. I am interested to see what they do with her now she doesn't have 11 to fawn over, now that she's not the impossible girl, and now that she isn't defined by her love for Danny. Perhaps we'll have a series with some good old fashioned rollicking adventures?


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 1, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> It felt like it should have ended with older Clara. I was a bit surprised when it didn't, tbh.



That was one 'and it was all a dream' too many IMO. Not that I particularly wanted Clara to go, but the scene with old lady Clara was rather good and would have provided a nice end point for the character.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2015)

Moffat and RT having a row in the pages of DWM lol


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)




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## Santino (Apr 2, 2015)

Poor old Martha.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

Santino said:


> Poor old Martha.


her complete excision from the 50th celebrations was also way weird. Unless she had requested it to be so or the beeb had blocked her....wtf man. I know she wasn't rated much as a companion but wtf


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> her complete excision from the 50th celebrations was also way weird. Unless she had requested it to be so or the beeb had blocked her....wtf man. I know she wasn't rated much as a companion but wtf


Never thought about it, but you're right. 

Though there were lots of companions not included.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Never thought about it, but you're right.
> 
> Though there were lots of companions not included.


plenty of old Who people not present but iirc every other new who companion was accounted for


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> plenty of old Who people not present but iirc every other new who companion was accounted for


Donna?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Donna?


google shows this



so discussed at least, but no mention of Martha.

all a bit odd. There are rumours that the beeb who production team are grade a shits to work with and act the cunt wrt money, time and etc


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> google shows this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's certainly the impression Ecclescake manages to give.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 3, 2015)

When I think of some of the great episodes ignored it hurts that they had used a sound clip from fucking Fear Her.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2015)

Yesterday, I got a big seal of rassilon tatooed on my right shoulder blade. 85 notes, but it looks badboy


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 3, 2015)

POIDH


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## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> POIDH


yesterday:


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 3, 2015)

Mind you don't sleep on your back for a few weeks. I did that with a tattoo in the same spot and I lost half the ink to my pillow


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## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Mind you don't sleep on your back for a few weeks. I did that with a tattoo in the same spot and I lost half the ink to my pillow


free touch up in three weeks, praise be. Sore as fuck though


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 3, 2015)

That's pretty epic.  When the talk came up of what  i would want as a tattoo i would  end up  thiking  either something loike the seal of rassilon or  perhaps  the NERV logop.	although  when i wore my NERV t-shirt  people  that  i  was a Christian tru faith proclaim to the world kinda guy  because it has the last lines of pippa passes on it.  I never  felt like telling them the  in show meaning.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 3, 2015)

I'd have the Star Trek badge.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'd have the Star Trek badge.


where


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 3, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> where


My jumper.


----------



## Impossible Girl (Apr 3, 2015)

This last season of DW left me with a feeling of incompleteness, I don't know why. It felt like the Doctor and Clara weren't on the same wavelength anymore 



danny la rouge said:


> I'd have the Star Trek badge.



This one is missing in my credentials


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 3, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'd have the Star Trek badge.


My mate has a star trek badge with a stylised spiderman spider over the top of it


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## danny la rouge (Apr 3, 2015)

Pseudopsycho said:


> My mate has a star trek badge with a stylised spiderman spider over the top of it


That's not right. Not right at all. 



There's an app that turns your smartphoneboast into a Star Trek communicator, apparently.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 3, 2015)

It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world out there, Danny.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2015)

now I can't stop pronouncing 'rassilon' in that breathy scots actorly voice sylvester mcoy does


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## danny la rouge (Apr 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> now I can't stop pronouncing 'rassilon' in that breathy scots actorly voice sylvester mcoy does


You mean, correctly?


----------

