# End the ridiculous monopoly of London black cabs!



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

In any other situtation it would be called 'restraint of trade' or a monopoly. But for some reason London black cabs are a special case. And I think it's bollocks.

The poor fuckers who have to ride around London on a moped for anything from 2 to 6 years learning all the streets - doing 'the knowledge', which most of them forget within a few months (as admitted to me by a cabbie the other day.)

Anyone who knows their way around London and occasionally gets a cab home will know that the black cab 'fastest route home' is a creative interpretation. So the knowledge is worthless.

And on top of that, Sat Nav makes it all redundant anyway.

And yeah I know Sat Navs aren't perfect and cabbies 'know all the secret backstreets' etc, but this is still bollocks. As a cyclist and resident of south London I reckon I know the streets well enough already to become a cabbie. And why should I have to do 'the knowledge' for 5 years when a sat nav or even an A-Z will suffice?

I'm not against taxi drivers being licensed - of course they should be - but to have to go through all that crap to be able to pick up passengers on the street is just stupid. 

Cabbies will fiercely defend their position - "i studied for years to do this!" "we offer a better service" "we have metered fares" etc - but there's no reason why any of those things cant be done by standard cabbies. 

It's time to end the restraint of trade, end the protectionism, end this ridiculous monopoly of London black cabs!


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> In any other situtation it would be called 'restraint of trade' or a monopoly. But for some reason London black cabs are a special case. And I think it's bollocks.
> 
> The poor fuckers who have to ride around London on a moped for anything from 2 to 6 years learning all the streets - doing 'the knowledge', which most of them forget within a few months (as admitted to me by a cabbie the other day.)
> 
> ...


 
the day i can give you a run like they do for people taking the knowledge and you can name all the fucking buildings you pass is the day you might have a point.


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## story (Jan 14, 2011)

How is it a monopoly? Cabbies are self employed or work on small teams who club together to own / rent the cab.


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## scifisam (Jan 14, 2011)

I think you might have contradicted yourself a bit there, what with talking about black cabs being a monopoly and then talking about other types of taxi drivers in London.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 14, 2011)

They know their stuff though, but I think their fares are way over the top.  And to those that say they have to pay their taxis off etc., how come I know two cab drivers, neither of them are even forty who have homes in London and Spain and their kids get the best of everything.  There's one thing they're not, and that's skint (not the two I know anyway)


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## scifisam (Jan 14, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> They know their stuff though, but I think their fares are way over the top.  And to those that say they have to pay their taxis off etc., how come I know two cab drivers, neither of them are even forty who have homes in London and Spain and their kids get the best of everything.  There's one thing they're not, and that's skint (not the two I know anyway)


 
When was the last time you got a black cab? I very rarely do, but they often end up cheaper than a minicab. Last Christmas Day I was quoted £25 by a taxi firm that then refused to take us because we had dogs with us, even though I'd told them we had dogs, but a black cab was just over a tenner.


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## story (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> In any other situtation it would be called 'restraint of trade' or a monopoly. But for some reason London black cabs are a special case. And I think it's bollocks.
> 
> The poor fuckers who have to ride around London on a moped for anything from 2 to 6 years learning all the streets - doing 'the knowledge', which most of them forget within a few months (as admitted to me by a cabbie the other day.)



They may file away the bits that they don;t use a lot, but speaking as an ex-cycle courier, the knowledge of back streets and short cuts comes rushing back when you need it.



Brixton Hatter said:


> Anyone who knows their way around London and occasionally gets a cab home will know that the black cab 'fastest route home' is a creative interpretation. So the knowledge is worthless.



Not my experience at all. I've learned some very canny routes by keeping schtum and watching from the back seat. I've come a cropper more than once by thinking I knew better than the cabbie only to find that we've run into roadworks, or learning later that his route was better.



Brixton Hatter said:


> And on top of that, Sat Nav makes it all redundant anyway.



I've been thinking about this. I think we may find that Sat Nav puts paid to The Knowledge in the same way that fax machines made couriers redundant, In other words, not really in the long run. Sat Nav is frequently wrong, or takes the standard main route when the back way is better.



Brixton Hatter said:


> And yeah I know Sat Navs aren't perfect and cabbies 'know all the secret backstreets' etc, but this is still bollocks. As a cyclist and resident of south London I reckon I know the streets well enough already to become a cabbie. And why should I have to do 'the knowledge' for 5 years when a sat nav or even an A-Z will suffice?



But you can't possibly know all of London, or even some of it, to the same degree. It's one thing knowing your patch, but so soon as you're off your own personal map, you have to keep pulling over to check the map. 



Brixton Hatter said:


> I'm not against taxi drivers being licensed - of course they should be - but to have to go through all that crap to be able to pick up passengers on the street is just stupid.
> 
> Cabbies will fiercely defend their position - "i studied for years to do this!" "we offer a better service" "we have metered fares" etc - but there's no reason why any of those things cant be done by standard cabbies.
> 
> It's time to end the restraint of trade, end the protectionism, end this ridiculous monopoly of London black cabs!



What are you suggesting as an alternative?


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## story (Jan 14, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> They know their stuff though, but I think their fares are way over the top.  And to those that say they have to pay their taxis off etc., how come I know two cab drivers, neither of them are even forty who have homes in London and Spain and their kids get the best of everything.  There's one thing they're not, and that's skint (not the two I know anyway)


 
I know one who really struggles. Not sure what he's doing wrong....


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 14, 2011)

scifisam said:


> When was the last time you got a black cab? I very rarely do, but they often end up cheaper than a minicab. Last Christmas Day I was quoted £25 by a taxi firm that then refused to take us because we had dogs with us, even though I'd told them we had dogs, but a black cab was just over a tenner.


 
A few years ago, before midnight, from Temple to Lambeth Bridge.  Fare had already gone to £10.

I used to be able to get a black cab from Fleet Street to Brixton for £10 (admittedly that was over 20 years ago though)


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## story (Jan 14, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> A few years ago, before midnight, from Temple to Lambeth Bridge.  Fare had already gone to £10.
> 
> I used to be able to get a black cab from Fleet Street to Brixton for £10 (a*dmittedly that was over 20 years ago though*)


 




Oh Minnie-the_Minx


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 14, 2011)

story said:


> Oh Minnie-the_Minx


 
Time flies when you're old


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 14, 2011)

but still, £10 from Temple to Lambeth Bridge?


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## Sunray (Jan 14, 2011)

Its not a monopoly, it just a licensed number of cabs that get the privilege of hail pick up because they have some regulations to adhere to with regard to the cabs themselves.  That knowledge is reasonably useful because you can ask for a place or building on the route you want.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> but still, £10 from Temple to Lambeth Bridge?


 
at this time of night?


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## southside (Jan 14, 2011)

Whats this attack on the working class?

Some of us have no choice but to try and better ourselves and if that means driving a black cab then I'm a supporter of one of the last working class institutions of this country.


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## editor (Jan 14, 2011)

I prefer the NYC licensed cab system where there's lots of cabs who are actually prepared to take you where you want to go for a reasonable rate.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> the day...you can name all the fucking buildings you pass is the day you might have a point.


rubbish. why does anyone need to know all the names of the buildings? Learning all those blue books is a total waste of time. It's a con.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

southside said:


> Whats this attack on the working class?
> 
> Some of us have no choice but to try and better ourselves and if that means driving a black cab then I'm a supporter of one of the last working class institutions of this country.


 
could you explain to us how driving a black cab, though a skilled position, is 'bettering' yourself.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

scifisam said:


> I think you might have contradicted yourself a bit there, what with talking about black cabs being a monopoly and then talking about other types of taxi drivers in London.


Only black cabs are allowed to pick people up on the street.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> They know their stuff though


 This is a fallacy. Rarely can a black cab driver ever take me the quickest route home. Or anywhere else for that matter.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> rubbish. why does anyone need to know all the names of the buildings? Learning all those blue books is a total waste of time. It's a con.


 
let's say someone asks you to drive them to the london equestrian centre from bermondsey via the petrie museum. would you a) dither while looking at your a-z; b) dither while setting your sat nav; c) turn off your taximeter and set off towards university college london before proceeding towards north finchley? if you can't see why you need to know where buildings are then you are as thick as pigshit.


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## southside (Jan 14, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> could you explain to us how driving a black cab, though a skilled position, is 'bettering' yourself.


 
For some in the working classes its a way out of the shite.  

Its probably not as good as it once was mind.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> This is a fallacy. Rarely can a black cab driver ever take me the quickest route home. Or anywhere else for that matter.


 
that's because you're an obnoxious wanker who deserves to be relieved of his money.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

southside said:


> Whats this attack on the working class?
> 
> Some of us have no choice but to try and better ourselves and if that means driving a black cab then I'm a supporter of one of the last working class institutions of this country.


Rubbish. I'm sure many working class people would want to drive a cab but are put off by having to waste 5 years of their life learning the so-called "knowledge". (i certainly am.) Why cant anyone with a reasonable knowledge of London just buy a cab, get licensed and start picking up fares on the street?

The artifically high barrier to entry needs to be removed - this will allow more people to become cabbies and the prices to go down.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

hardly anyone spends five years doing the knowledge - three for most people.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> This is a fallacy. Rarely can a black cab driver ever take me the quickest route home. Or anywhere else for that matter.



Of course they can, they're probably taking you the "shortest" route where there's lots of roadworks and traffic lights so they can charge you more though


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> that's because you're an obnoxious wanker who deserves to be relieved of his money.


 
I seem to have hit a nerve here. Perhaps you'd like to engage in the argument. I'm asking some serious questions. What's the justification for the high barrier to entry?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 14, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> at this time of night?


 
No, later, when the roads were practically empty


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## Boycey (Jan 14, 2011)

sorry mate, gotta disagree with you.

my knowledge of london is pretty fucking good having worked as a courier but it's nothing compared to black cabbies, i've never had issues with poor route choice and the service i've received is second to none (no other cabbies will happily take a bicycle or two- at times when i've pulled or gotten myself injured they've been an utter lifeline). they also have to do a separate driving test, unlike the TFL badged drivers who can work on foreign licenses and have a very rough grasp of the highway code. there are issues with some sections of the cabbie community, exemplified by the LTDA cunts, but they are not representative of all cabbies- certainly not the ones i know.

there you have it: a bicycle courier defending london cabbies. /thread?


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## southside (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Rubbish. I'm sure many working class people would want to drive a cab but are put off by having to waste 5 years of their life learning the so-called "knowledge". (i certainly am.) Why cant anyone with a reasonable knowledge of London just buy a cab, get licensed and start picking up fares on the street?
> 
> The artifically high barrier to entry needs to be removed - this will allow more people to become cabbies and the prices to go down.



London is a very compact city, the square mile has no end of embassies that look like houses and other such places that would cost even more having some idiot who has zero idea of where some of the important obvious landmarks are, let alone somewhere less documented.  It was most likely turned into the system we have now out of some do gooder trying to control numbers and having a standard.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I seem to have hit a nerve here. Perhaps you'd like to engage in the argument. I'm asking some serious questions. What's the justification for the high barrier to entry?


 
and you've got that wrong as i've said above.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> that's because you're an obnoxious wanker who deserves to be relieved of his money.


 
I seem to have hit a nerve here. Perhaps you'd like to engage in the argument. Maybe I'm asking some difficult questions. I really want to know - what's the justification for the high barrier to entry?


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## story (Jan 14, 2011)

Boycey said:


> sorry mate, gotta disagree with you.
> 
> my knowledge of london is pretty fucking good having worked as a courier but it's nothing compared to black cabbies, i've never had issues with poor route choice and the service i've received is second to none (no other cabbies will happily take a bicycle or two- at times when i've pulled or gotten myself injured they've been an utter lifeline). they also have to do a separate driving test, unlike the TFL badged drivers who can work on foreign licenses and have a very rough grasp of the highway code. there are issues with some sections of the cabbie community, exemplified by the LTDA cunts, but they are not representative of all cabbies- certainly not the ones i know.
> 
> there you have it: a bicycle courier defending london cabbies. /thread?


 
I already did that earlier but it made no odds, Boycey.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I seem to have hit a nerve here. Perhaps you'd like to engage in the argument. Maybe I'm asking some difficult questions. I really want to know - what's the justification for the high barrier to entry?


 
what job do you do?


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> hardly anyone spends five years doing the knowledge - three for most people.


 
Ok fair enough...the guy who took me the other say said it took him five. But wouldn't it be better use of time to spend, say, 6 months studying the main routes and landmarks of London then getting out there and doing the job? 

I know you're going to vigorously defend your position because you've already done the knowledge and therefore have invested some your life in it, but if you started again wouldn't you prefer the 6 month route? 

Surely it's only a matter of time before the rules get relaxed...?


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## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Ok fair enough...the guy who took me the other say said it took him five. But wouldn't it be better use of time to spend, say, 6 months studying the main routes and landmarks of London then getting out there and doing the job?
> 
> I know you're going to vigorously defend your position because you've already done the knowledge and therefore have invested some your life in it, but if you started again wouldn't you prefer the 6 month route?
> 
> Surely it's only a matter of time before the rules get relaxed...?


i haven't done the knowledge. but a mate of mine has.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2011)

Boycey said:


> sorry mate, gotta disagree with you.
> 
> my knowledge of london is pretty fucking good having worked as a courier but it's nothing compared to black cabbies, i've never had issues with poor route choice and the service i've received is second to none (no other cabbies will happily take a bicycle or two- at times when i've pulled or gotten myself injured they've been an utter lifeline). they also have to do a separate driving test, unlike the TFL badged drivers who can work on foreign licenses and have a very rough grasp of the highway code. there are issues with some sections of the cabbie community, exemplified by the LTDA cunts, but they are not representative of all cabbies- certainly not the ones i know.
> 
> there you have it: a bicycle courier defending london cabbies. /thread?


 
well I agree to a certain extent about the service. But I've also had cabbies refuse to take me to Brixton (on many occasions), refuse to take my bike and spark up spliffs whilst driving. (My girlfriend even had a cabbie pull over to smoke a crack pipe, but that's another story. And obviously not representative of all cabbies!)

I'm starting to come round to Pickman's argument about true, detailed knowledge of London. But I still think having to do 'the knowledge' is way over the top.


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## southside (Jan 14, 2011)

I don't think they will ever relax the rules because from what I hear cabbies are having a hard time as it is due to the economic downturn and other factors.  If they flood the market with sub standard cab drivers thier little industry will suffer because of saturation.


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## likesfish (Jan 14, 2011)

black cab drivers are a standard few major cities can match.
new york may have more cabbies but the quality isn't the same.
 deregualte it and relie on sat nav and people will be whineing


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## Boycey (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I'm starting to come round to Pickman's argument about true, detailed knowledge of London. But I still think having to do 'the knowledge' is way over the top.


 
there's nothing wrong with being trained to exceed your job specifications, it is in fact a requirement for many professions- especially when there is the potential to earn as much as they can. the knowledge is a serious bit of learning, it took my mate 3 years after being a bicycle messenger for 12 years (he started the course after he'd done a decade on the bicycle) and he likes to show off naming the quickest route to wherever i'm going road by road. i've never met a tfl badge private hire driver who takes the same pride in their job or to bother doing anything beyond following a fucking tomtom and whinging about things cabbies can do that they can't. i wouldn't be happy with drivers of their standard (or indeed drivers with the reputation of NYC cabbies in comparison to london's) driving in bus lanes and stopping where they like.

i'm genuinely shocked by your drug taking while working claims- did you report them?


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## Boycey (Jan 14, 2011)

likesfish said:


> deregualte it and relie on sat nav and people will be whineing


 
we'd be losing something quite special IMO.


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## Yossarian (Jan 14, 2011)

likesfish said:


> black cab drivers are a standard few major cities can match.
> new york may have more cabbies but the quality isn't the same.


 
Black cabs provide a premium service at a high price. 

That's fine for people who give a shit about the buildings they pass along the way or who want to save 5 minutes traveling time via a shortcut, but it's not such a good deal for people who just want to hail a cab to get from A to B.

Does any other major city have such high standards for taxi drivers?


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## Maurice Picarda (Jan 14, 2011)

Yossarian said:


> Does any other major city have such high standards for taxi drivers?



Venice.


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## Boycey (Jan 14, 2011)

Yossarian said:


> That's fine for people who give a shit about the buildings they pass along the way or who want to save 5 minutes traveling time via a shortcut, but it's not such a good deal for people who just want to hail a cab to get from A to B.


 
does anyone apart from the hugely rich ever use a cab just to "get from A to B"?


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## Maurice Picarda (Jan 14, 2011)

Boycey said:


> does anyone apart from the hugely rich ever use a cab just to "get from A to B"?



What on earth are you suggesting the rest of us use cabs for? Entertainment?


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## Boycey (Jan 14, 2011)

also, nothing would make the likes of John Griffin (an utter utter cunt of highest order) happier than the deregulation of taxi cabs. for that reason alone i would keep them...


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## Boycey (Jan 14, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> What on earth are you suggesting the rest of us use cabs for? Entertainment?


 
the term "A to B" suggests a regular journey, not the hammered ride home at 4am or the getting back with bicycle and bleeding face i've used them for... A to B is more like a commute, or to go to the shops- catch a fucking bus


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## scifisam (Jan 14, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Only black cabs are allowed to pick people up on the street.


 


Yossarian said:


> Black cabs provide a premium service at a high price.
> 
> That's fine for people who give a shit about the buildings they pass along the way or who want to save 5 minutes traveling time via a shortcut, but it's not such a good deal for people who just want to hail a cab to get from A to B.
> 
> Does any other major city have such high standards for taxi drivers?


 
Nope, they're often cheaper than mini cabs. I'm sure they were more expensive once, but they haven't been for several years now.


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## Yossarian (Jan 14, 2011)

Boycey said:


> the term "A to B" suggests a regular journey, not the hammered ride home at 4am or the getting back with bicycle and bleeding face i've used them for... A to B is more like a commute, or to go to the shops- catch a fucking bus


 
By A to B, I meant getting to point B from point A - i.e. a journey of any kind.

Being able to hail an affordable cab on the street is a good thing, IMO - in other cities, taxis are just another form of transport, not a luxury reserved for the "hammered ride home at 4am or the getting back with bicycle and bleeding face."


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## scifisam (Jan 14, 2011)

Yossarian said:


> By A to B, I meant getting to point B from point A - i.e. a journey of any kind.
> 
> Being able to hail an affordable cab on the street is a good thing, IMO - in other cities, taxis are just another form of transport, not a luxury reserved for the "hammered ride home at 4am or the getting back with bicycle and bleeding face."



When was the last time you compared prices? They're expensive, but no more than mini cabs.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 14, 2011)

scifisam said:


> When was the last time you compared prices? They're expensive, but no more than mini cabs.




I don't think they're that expensive personally. How much do they make per hour given they have to pay costs and often won't get another fare for a while? I doubt they make a huge amount do they?


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## Yossarian (Jan 14, 2011)

scifisam said:


> When was the last time you compared prices? They're expensive, but no more than mini cabs.


 
I haven't been in a London taxi of any kind since early 2007 - they're now the same price as minicabs?


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## lighterthief (Jan 14, 2011)

Overpriced, and they rip you off (12.5% surcharge last time) for paying by card.


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## scifisam (Jan 14, 2011)

Yossarian said:


> I haven't been in a London taxi of any kind since early 2007 - they're now the same price as minicabs?


 
They have been whenever I've used them, which has generally been after trying to get a minicab then remembering that I can get a black cab almost as easily, so I know how much the minicab was planning to charge. 

I don't think just over a tenner on Christmas Day from Bethnal Green to Camden is a bad price, either. That was on the meter, and at triple rate, so not many journeys are going to have a much higher per-mile rate than that.


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## Yossarian (Jan 14, 2011)

scifisam said:


> I don't think just over a tenner on Christmas Day from Bethnal Green to Camden is a bad price, either. That was on the meter, and at triple rate, so not many journeys are going to have a much higher per-mile rate than that.



Sounds like an amazingly good price, although I guess there wouldn't have been much traffic around to slow you down - I've paid around as much to get a black cab from central Brixton to a little further south in Brixton.


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## lighterthief (Jan 14, 2011)

As I recall was around £20/£25 to get from City Airport (east London) to Hackney (east London).


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## Me76 (Jan 14, 2011)

I think that anyone who is allowed to pick people up from the street should have to go through a thorough process in order to be allowed to do that. 

Whether the knowledge is actually that thing - hmm. I don't get black cabs that often. But in central London they are fab. 

Getting me home to south London has very much been a different matter. I have been refused at London Bridge station often.   I have also got one from balham to west Norwood and sat worrying at traffic lights that I don't  have enough money. At least with a mini cab you know the  fare. 

Saying that I have also got one from the west end and it has worked out cheaper then I was quoted by a mini cab. 

Not quite sure how that contributes to the conversation. But hey ho.


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## grit (Jan 14, 2011)

scifisam said:


> When was the last time you got a black cab? I very rarely do, but they often end up cheaper than a minicab. Last Christmas Day I was quoted £25 by a taxi firm that then refused to take us because we had dogs with us, even though I'd told them we had dogs, but a black cab was just over a tenner.


 
Black cabs are far more expensive, mini cab is on average 30% cheaper.


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## zenie (Jan 14, 2011)

Yossarian said:


> Sounds like an amazingly good price, although I guess there wouldn't have been much traffic around to slow you down - I've paid around as much to get a black cab from central Brixton to a little further south in Brixton.


 
I've paid a tenner in a black cab from Brixton to Oval - only a few months ago too!! 

Black cabs are good though


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## scifisam (Jan 15, 2011)

Yossarian said:


> Sounds like an amazingly good price, although I guess there wouldn't have been much traffic around to slow you down - I've paid around as much to get a black cab from central Brixton to a little further south in Brixton.



Yeah, the road were fairly quiet - no jams at least. I was expecting tem to be almost empty, but it was busier than they are right now (at least, from what I can see out of the window). 



lighterthief said:


> As I recall was around £20/£25 to get from City Airport (east London) to Hackney (east London).



I've seen mini-cab quotes in the window that are the same, from Bethnal Green which is somewhat closer. 



grit said:


> Black cabs are far more expensive, mini cab is on average 30% cheaper.


 
I strongly suspect you just made that statistic up.


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## tarannau (Jan 15, 2011)

Yossarian said:


> I haven't been in a London taxi of any kind since early 2007 - they're now the same price as minicabs?


 
Not im my experience. An airport taxi return cost well over twice as much as the minicab there, with the usual stomach churning meter additions as you sat in traffic.

Depends on the minicab firm in my experience, but I'll typically save £5-10 by catching a minicab rather than flagging a black cab home from the centre.


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## tarannau (Jan 15, 2011)

May I just take a moment aside to call Radio Taxis cunts whilst I'm at. My dad's disabled and we have had to rely on them for accessible transport on occasion. And you quickly find that their booking service is largely hopeless - they've failed to honour appointments and then proved entirely unhelpful, essentially leaving my old man stranded. And on more than one occasion too.

On the plus side, the drivers are usually excellent if they choose to attend.


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## Kanda (Jan 15, 2011)

I pay £55 Brixton to Stanstead. That's probably half the cost of a Black Cab.


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## George & Bill (Jan 15, 2011)

editor said:


> I prefer the NYC licensed cab system where there's lots of cabs who are actually prepared to take you where you want to go for a reasonable rate.


 
We can have that, as long as you are happy for an industry to go from being one that provides decent long-term careers (which is what being black cabbie is), to one that provides fairly low-paid, often short-term work (which, to my knowledge, is what being a minicab driver here, or being a cabbie in NYC, is).

It is true that the less we require people in all industries to have skill - and the more obtainable and replaceable their labour therefore becomes, and the less we therefore need to pay them, and the longer hours they can therefore be prevailed upon to work - the cheaper and more flexible the services they provide will become. I suppose it comes down to the comparative amount of value that you attach to reducing the price, and increasing the availability of services on one hand, and maintaining decent, stable employment possibilities for people on the other.


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## grit (Jan 15, 2011)

scifisam said:


> I strongly suspect you just made that statistic up.


 
No, however its just from my personal experience.


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## Boycey (Jan 15, 2011)

slowjoe said:


> We can have that, as long as you are happy for an industry to go from being one that provides decent long-term careers (which is what being black cabbie is), to one that provides fairly low-paid, often short-term work (which, to my knowledge, is what being a minicab driver here, or being a cabbie in NYC, is).
> 
> It is true that the less we require people in all industries to have skill - and the more obtainable and replaceable their labour therefore becomes, and the less we therefore need to pay them, and the longer hours they can therefore be prevailed upon to work - the cheaper and more flexible the services they provide will become. I suppose it comes down to the comparative amount of value that you attach to reducing the price, and increasing the availability of services on one hand, and *maintaining decent, stable employment possibilities for people* on the other.


 
why would anyone give a fuck about that?


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## telbert (Jan 15, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> Overpriced, and they rip you off (12.5% surcharge last time) for paying by card.


  That money goes to the bank/card clearing company,not the driver.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 15, 2011)

grit said:


> No, however its just from my personal experience.


 
sounds like a 'yes i did' to me.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 15, 2011)

i have to admit that - having had some time to reflect on this discussion - there is some real value in the knowledge black cabbies have. I think perhaps that my original argument was coloured a bit by some rubbish recent black cab journeys. Most recently, the cabbie had a go at me for suggesting that he turn left not right into brixton road to get me back to loughborough road by the blatantly quickest route. Of course, this isnt representative of all cabbies' knowledge/attitude, but my point is that cabbies arent infallible, and perhaps there should be no shame in using an A to Z or a Satnav. I've actually been taken home by a black cab who quite openly used a satnav and to be fair, we were happy cos we got home by the quickest route and probably saved a few quid in the process. 

Does anyone know how the pricing is decided? And what the requirements are to pass The Knowledge?


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## T & P (Jan 16, 2011)

For longer journeys black cabs do become obscenely expensive. Last year I was going to Luton airport by train from Kings Cross and the train got cancelled. The train company, to their credit, organised black cabs to take the 25 or so passengers who'd been left stranded to the airport so we wouldn't miss our flights. By the time we arrived the meter read £104. I can't see a local mini cab company wanting more than £40 for the same journey.

Even for London journeys the night tariff is rather steep. £35-£37 from Chelsea to Tulse Hill seems a tad too much, frankly.

Still, I'm shit at planning in advance and pre-booking (a bit difficult when you don't know when you'll be going home), and faced with the choice of riding with some unlicenced cunt who'll charge only a few quid less or getting a black cab, I'll go with the latter every time.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 16, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I don't think they're that expensive personally. How much do they make per hour given they have to pay costs and often won't get another fare for a while? I doubt they make a huge amount do they?


 
Your average black cabbie makes £40-50k a year. It's a decent whack.

I don't begrudge them a living, but for anyone who earns less than they do, taking a black cab is quite a luxury. I do object to the way that they will refuse to take you to certain places south of the river. They enjoy considerable privileges and the very least they could do in return is to commit to take anyone anywhere they ask within a certain radius. Otherwise they really don't deserve, for instance, to use bus lanes.


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## George & Bill (Jan 16, 2011)

Although I'd be interested in know the sort of hours they do for that. I can't imagine most of them are knocking off after a 37.5 hour week...


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## paolo (Jan 16, 2011)

editor said:


> I prefer the NYC licensed cab system where there's lots of cabs who are actually prepared to take you where you want to go for a reasonable rate.



They're middling.

Last time I used one, I had to direct the driver.

"Corner of {x} and {y} please".

"Where's that?"

I had to direct him. On a grid system.

The licensing system is different. The vehicle gets the license ("medallion"), not the driver. You can of course drive the vehicle yourself as the owner, but it's more profitable to employ any old randoms to drive your medallioned vehicle.

The badges are so prized they change hands for big money - $300k or so. The drivers (unqualified?) are just 'staff'.

At least that's how it was 10 or 20 years ago.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 16, 2011)

Much cheaper petrol must contribute quite a bit to lower NY fares.


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## paolo (Jan 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Otherwise they really don't deserve, for instance, to use bus lanes.


 
Not following that logic.

As a way of reducing personal vehicle use, I'd say they should definitely have priority lane use.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 16, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Not following that logic.
> 
> As a way of reducing personal vehicle use, I'd say they should definitely have priority lane use.


 
In return for the privilege, they should commit to taking any fare, basically. Seems a reasonable quid pro quo to me. Either they are public transport or not. If they are, they should behave like it.


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## grit (Jan 16, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> sounds like a 'yes i did' to me.


 
I'll let you do the maths then,as an example, from Brixton to Ealing is around £52 in a black cab and about £35 in a mini cab.

Edit: to change 30 - 35


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 16, 2011)

That's 70 per cent more.


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## paolo (Jan 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> In return for the privilege, they should commit to taking any fare, basically. Seems a reasonable quid pro quo to me. Either they are public transport or not. If they are, they should behave like it.


 
Ah ok. Yep, sure - agreed on that.

tbh I think London black taxi drivers are, very slowly, and by their own rubbishness, losing ground to the likes of Addison Lee. AL aren't always super cheap, but their drivers are bloody fab and seem to really like their job and the company.


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## grit (Jan 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's 70 per cent more.


 
Edited above to put the correct 35 value in, as I said in a previous post the average difference, from my experience is around 30%.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 16, 2011)

grit said:


> I'll let you do the maths then,as an example, from Brixton to Ealing is around £52 in a black cab and about £35 in a mini cab.
> 
> Edit: to change 30 - 35


 

That's 50 per cent more, then.

(or 30 per cent less – depending on which way you're looking at it. A black cab is 50 per cent more than a mini cab. A mini cab is 30 per cent less than a black cab)


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## grit (Jan 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's 50 per cent more, then.


 
The defence rests your honour


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 16, 2011)

That's my experience too, grit, not that I've got cabs much in the last couple of years. But a mini cab has always been a lot less than a black cab. Some people are using very expensive mini cab firms.


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## paolo (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm now just recalling the bad old days.

Remember Dom Joly's Euston Mini-Cab? 







That was what it was like.


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## sir.clip (Jan 16, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> rubbish. why does anyone need to know all the names of the buildings? Learning all those blue books is a total waste of time. It's a con.


 
Its fun to know names of buildings & the history of them.


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## scifisam (Jan 16, 2011)

grit said:


> Edited above to put the correct 35 value in, as I said in a previous post the average difference, from my experience is around 30%.


 
That really sounds like you're making up the amount to fit with your 30% theory.

I'm not using expensive minicabs - they're just bog-standard firms and there re loads round here, so lots of competition. Maybe it's mainly south London that ends up being expensive for black cabs.

Can't say I'm surprised at a huge fare to Luton, though. Luton's not even in London - that's not what black cabs were intended for. Bet they put the meter on maximum fare for the train company too.


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## ernestolynch (Jan 16, 2011)

New York taxi drivers can barely speak English!


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## lighterthief (Jan 16, 2011)

scifisam said:


> I've seen mini-cab quotes in the window that are the same, from Bethnal Green which is somewhat closer.


Used to cost me £13 + £2 tip every morning = £15 every Monday morning from London Fields > LCY (this was for a large chunk of 2010).  Maybe Bethnal Green is more affluent


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## scifisam (Jan 16, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> Used to cost me £13 + £2 tip every morning = £15 every Monday morning from London Fields > LCY (this was for a large chunk of 2010).  Maybe Bethnal Green is more affluent


 
LCY? London City Airport? Airports always cost more, though I'm not sure why.


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## lighterthief (Jan 16, 2011)

Sorry yes, LCY = London City Airport.


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## grit (Jan 16, 2011)

scifisam said:


> That really sounds like you're making up the amount to fit with your 30% theory.


 
I'm obviously not going to change your mind, but they are the numbers I've paid, and I've done that trip multiple times.


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## grit (Jan 16, 2011)

southside said:


> I don't think they will ever relax the rules because from what I hear cabbies are having a hard time as it is due to the economic downturn and other factors.  If they flood the market with sub standard cab drivers thier little industry will suffer because of saturation.


 
This happened in Dublin.


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## spanglechick (Jan 16, 2011)

when i was using taxis for work, a 2.2mile journey at 8am was costing between £7 - £10 by mini cab. (tried a few companies). I can't believe it would have been more if i were able to hail a black cab in herne hill at that kind of time.


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## MikeMcc (Jan 16, 2011)

The biggest con isn't the drivers, it's with the London Taxi Company that provide the taxis, which have to be serviced and updated by them (at a price).

My old man left the Plod, did the Knowledge (which is a fuck load of effort) and worked as a cabbie for 5 years, he's only recently retired.  He knows the buildings because that's what many fares ask for, many usually to go to easily recogniseable points, but there's plenty that don't know the street or post code (which screws GPS), but know that they want to go to a particular building.

I worked for a year doing mini-cabbing in Norfolk.  I lost count of the number of times I had to explain to fares that they were paying my wage as well as the running costs of the car.  Don't forget that most fares are controlled by council set rates and they usually increase at 23:30 or midnight to account for the unsocialable hours.  While some might argue that cabbies choose to work those hours, usually it's because they need the money that they work at those times, have to put up with the petty abuse, arguements, runners and other bollocks.

ETA:  I've been to NYC a few times and while the yellow cabs are plentiful, most of them are shite, falling to pieces and the drivers are shockingly bad.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2011)

From a visitors pov, knowing you can flag down a cab and just say the building you want without having to know anything else is a godsend.

Getting round London without them would be a nightmare.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 16, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> From a visitors pov, knowing you can flag down a cab and just say the building you want without having to know anything else is a godsend.
> 
> Getting round London without them would be a nightmare.



A-Z plus Oyster Card. 

Or if you're a flash type, google/iphone plus Oyster Card


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> A-Z plus Oyster Card


 
Still no good if you're looking for a particular building/place.


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## Boycey (Jan 16, 2011)

scifisam said:


> LCY? London City Airport? Airports always cost more, though I'm not sure why.


 
do they? my local firm does £35 stanstead to crouch end. wouldn't use a black cab for that journey!


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## Star Dove (Jan 16, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Addison Lee. AL aren't always super cheap, but their drivers are bloody fab and seem to really like their job and the company.



Really? I use them quite often and the drivers usual complaint is that the owner is a cunt, who by increasing the numbers of drivers and the charges they pay, has left them struggling to make any kind of living.


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## Xanadu (Jan 17, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Ah ok. Yep, sure - agreed on that.
> 
> tbh I think London black taxi drivers are, very slowly, and by their own rubbishness, losing ground to the likes of Addison Lee. AL aren't always super cheap, but their drivers are bloody fab and seem to really like their job and the company.


 
Yep - for short journeys, a black cab is cheaper.  For my house to London Bridge (around 1.5 miles), Add Lee charge around £11 (their minimum charge).  A black cab usually charges around £7 to £9.  It's a trip I've been doing once a week for the past year, so I know the prices well.

For longer journeys, Add Lee is often cheaper.  Highbury & Islington station to Borough is around £17 on Add Lee, but around £25 by black cab.

The local minicab company charges around £45 for E1 to Heathrow Airport.  Add Lee charge around £70 IIRC.  At a guess, a black cab would be far more pricey.

I usually get a good bit of chat going with the black cabbies, but Add Lee drivers are usually a bit more dull.


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## porp (Jan 18, 2011)

Good thread this.

On a slight detour, I think London needs shared taxis /  minivan type things. As in Istanbul and other places I can't bring to mind at the moment.

I'm thinking just on the main arterial routes eg Uxbridge Road, Finchley Road etc. Hail and ride, get on and off where you please. You'd just need a transit minibus thing going up and down, and I reckon it would be doable for less than the scandalous £1.30 Oyster bus fare, never mind the absurd black cab fares.

There would all sorts of tiresome laws to negotiate, but I like the idea.


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## editor (Jan 18, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> From a visitors pov, knowing you can flag down a cab and just say the building you want without having to know anything else is a godsend.
> 
> Getting round London without them would be a nightmare.


That's assuming they're prepared to take you there, of course. 

I've had loads of cabs refuse to take me and Eme back to Brixton, even though it was well within their six mile radius.  The fuckers.


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## teuchter (Jan 18, 2011)

Minicab drivers are generally more entertaining than black cab drivers and less likely to be racist. Fact.


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## shagnasty (Jan 19, 2011)

Being as london cabs are only assembled now from chinese kits ,the next is fully built up cabs .The mayor will be less inclined to grant LTI exclusive rights on london cabs


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## paolo (Jan 19, 2011)

Star Dove said:


> Really? I use them quite often and the drivers usual complaint is that the owner is a cunt, who by increasing the numbers of drivers and the charges they pay, has left them struggling to make any kind of living.


 
Sounds like you've used them more than me.

Mine were all cheery, helping out with bags and stuff. Quite possible you've got the better measure, but my experience wuth AddLeee was really good.

I think my high regard for black cab drivers fell after hearing one too many racists.... and then one decided he didn't like opinion given on his route choice so he pinned me to a fence with his fist to my face, then threw me (he was massive) into his cab for a new unknown destination. I called 999 and thankfully the police took my version of events and kept him in the nick. I then had to get another black cab home. Which, mentally wasn't easy. Ten years earlier my old flatmate gave evidence against one kicking the shit out of someone on a dual carriageway near Heathrow in full view of the traffic queue. The driver was found guilty.

So, possibly, my views are biased.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 19, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Ah ok. Yep, sure - agreed on that.
> 
> tbh I think London black taxi drivers are, very slowly, and by their own rubbishness, losing ground to the likes of Addison Lee. AL aren't always super cheap, but their drivers are bloody fab and seem to really like their job and the company.



I thought they made outdoor ashtrays.


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## lenny101 (Jan 19, 2011)

I hate using black cabs round London. I know the roads very well so always know when they are trying to rip me off and then they get all arsy when I ask why they have gone the long way. I much prefer Add Lee and mini cabs as the fair is agreed up front.


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## Boycey (Jan 19, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Sounds like you've used them more than me.
> 
> Mine were all cheery, helping out with bags and stuff. Quite possible you've got the better measure, but my experience wuth AddLeee was really good.


 
the owner is an utter utter cunt.


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## g force (Jan 19, 2011)

MikeMcc said:


> The biggest con isn't the drivers, it's with the London Taxi Company that provide the taxis, which have to be serviced and updated by them (at a price).
> 
> My old man left the Plod, did the Knowledge (which is a fuck load of effort) and worked as a cabbie for 5 years, he's only recently retired.  He knows the buildings because that's what many fares ask for, many usually to go to easily recogniseable points, but there's plenty that don't know the street or post code (which screws GPS), but know that they want to go to a particular building.
> 
> ...


 
The best element of NYC is the fixed fair from the airports to Manhattan - over here it's a complete lottery. Even the guide price at Heathrow in the Taxi rank is complete bollocks..."around £60 to SW16" turns out to be £85 in bad traffic.


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## funkypanda (Feb 6, 2011)

i posted this on yahoo answers... ill repost it here as it reaccounts my nightmare today in a black cab!

just before,  please understand where im coming from
ive in the past never minded paying the extra pound or 2 for a taxi journey in london seeing as i cant stand crowded underground or buses, but this takes the mick.

i made a journey ive done in a cab every couple of month for about 2 years now, it was from kings cross to hampstead heath. its always around 15/16 pounds, maybe about 18 in traffic which isnt too bad considering its about 5 miles away.

by the time i got to the hotel i was staying in, it was 27 quid, and there wasnt more than around 3 minutes traffic the entire way

the driver was an old driver who kept claiming he was originaly from golders green, the route we went took ten minutes longer than usual too

i know youll probably say `well why didnt u question it when u were in the cab`, and the answer is u cant really justify it till ur in my situation, ur in a cab with an old man driving and going on about how things were in his days, and your in a hurry to get to your hotel too, and you dont think until youve reached your destination and its too late, about `hmm i think i got ripped off`

this for me is my breaking straw, im fed up of london taxi cabs, you go say from kings cross to euston merely a 3 minute walk is about 6 pounds (12 dollars)

some of the drivers are friendly, but the majority are rude, arrogant, and seem to ignore everything you say, with them being behind those big seats and windows

ive long heard many friends moan about taxi prices in london and how they are a huge rip off, and now i finally join them.. anyone else agree how they are a total rip off?


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## scifisam (Feb 6, 2011)

Then don't get a taxi for such ridiculously short journeys. 

(If you have a disability, you can get a taxi card which will get you the journey for free, so that's no excuse).


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## Boycey (Feb 7, 2011)

funkypanda- it's about half the distance you claim, did you get a receipt? can you verify anything you've claimed? basically i think you're a liar.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en...+to+hampstead+heath&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl


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## teuchter (Feb 8, 2011)

How come has funkypanda got 3 posts against his name but when I go and look for them there is only one?


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## paolo (Feb 8, 2011)

teuchter said:


> How come has funkypanda got 3 posts against his name but when I go and look for them there is only one?


 
Maybe he only posted one, but got charged for three.


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## teuchter (Feb 8, 2011)

Or maybe he posted three but only paid for one.


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## JWH (Feb 8, 2011)

editor said:


> I prefer the NYC licensed cab system where there's lots of cabs who are actually prepared to take you where you want to go for a reasonable rate.


 


paolo999 said:


> The drivers (unqualified?) are just 'staff'.


 
The NYC licensing system is utterly shite and in desperate need of reform. It's not true that there are lots of cabs: there are just a fair number of cabs in lower Manhattan who are willing to go to other places in lower Manhattan. The yellow cab system caters for one borough out of five and is essentially an irrelevance to the others. 90%+ of cab journeys start and end in Manhattan. There's a huge amount of bitching and moaning that goes on when you try to get drivers to cross a bridge or tunnel and you're not going to an airport, and if their knowledge can be basic in Manhattan it can be literally zero off it: I've spent fifteen minutes giving directions from the mouth of the Midtown Tunnel. The vehicles are slowly improving: Bloomberg's mandating of a hybrid fleet and the decision to discontinue Crown Vic production has and will have a major improvement on vehicle quality and efficiency - getting rid of those shitty, uncomfortable Crown Vics that got 8 mpg around town on a good day.

Meanwhile, the outer boroughs are essentially a regulation and taxi-free zone, with dollar vans and shagged-out Town Cars doing the heavy lifting.

If the system doesn't work for passengers, it doesn't work for drivers either. Most of the medallions are owned by a small number of rich people who can get together the finance to buy them at auction e.g. http://www.yellowcabnyc.com/nyc-taxi/russian-immigrant-owns-200-medallions-counting . 1 medallion = 1 vehicle. The result of this is that the fleet owners rent out the cabs to drivers for a daily fee; the daily fee is kept high enough so that there's no money in cab driving long term; which means that few people do it for more than a couple of years; which means there's no interest in getting really good at it or learning routes; which means that generally drivers are poorly-informed, careless and unprofessional. The fact that drivers don't own the vehicles means they don't really care to keep them clean or well-maintained because they could have a new one tomorrow; and the fleet owners don't have an interest in buying fuel-efficient cars or keeping them well-maintained because they don't pay for the fuel or drive them either.

I don't know what the best licensing system in the world is - it's not NYC's, though, that's for sure. In fact, taxi service across the US is remarkably crap in general...


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## nuckin fackard (Apr 18, 2011)

Hi all, first post here and an interesting thread (for me) so please be gentle.

I'm a london Cabby, have been for 13 years. Took 3 years to do the knowledge and having done the job for some time now don't regret it and neither wish it had taken less! I've 2 friends who i completed the knowledge with who came from PH (minicabbing) and in their own words it's a totally different job though obviously both have glaring similarities.

What you have to consider is that when a hand goes up and we stop (annoying all and sundry in process but please remember we don't choose where the customer is hailing us and without stopping we can't earn a living - though agree some drivers could be more considerate) the first we know of the destination we are going to is when the person sticks their head in the window or climbs in the back and says "take me to"! Now. "take me to" has a multitude of different meanings in this job. I've had a guy get in at Paddington station and ask to be taken to the building in the City with a statue of a big cat outside; i've had an Oriental lady ask to be taken to "shishelotelooston" and i've had a guy ask for the  compton quarter!! If it simply came down to using a satnav then on those occasions i would have become unstuck but having spent the time seeing London as well as learning it i've assimilated many unique points of interest (to me i guess) that i can call upon to get me out of trouble. The big cat statue is on Cannon St by Friday st, the Oriental lady wanted the Thistle hotel at Euston and the guy wanted Old compton St - it's only because i've learnt my great City that i can break down or work out what someone is asking me - satnav would not give me such luxury! Many people ask for Park St; just type that into a satnav and see how many hits it returns. Remember not everyone knows the postcode or area but maybe knows what shop or building they're going to. The system isn't perfect but it maintains a standard which i'm proud to work to.

On some of the other points. The meter cannot be altered by the driver irrespective of who has hailed us; be it a marshall for a rail company; Richard Branson or a battered cyclist having been knocked off his bike by a cabby . It is set by the institute of weights and measures and is calibrated annually when we have our overhaul (meter head removed and a new calibrated on put in its place) inspection.

The compellable distance is not 6 miles but 12. If a cabby refuses to take you to Brixton then get his number and report him - believe me it winds me up as much as it does you to hear of these idiotic drivers stuck in the 70's (when cabbies really were earning good money) knocking back jobs - it's a different time now and there's a lot more competition who will happily take the customer to their destination for what is not always cheaper. When my light is on, i'm for hire and many of my collegues also follow this mantra. When time comes for me to go home the light goes off but you will be surprised how many times i've had abuse from Joe Public who have come up to me whilst i'm stuck at lights wanting to go somewhere and i've said i'm going home - can't please everyone i guess! 

Our fares are set by TfL, we are cheaper than ph on some jobs and more expensive on others. The same can be said for PH. Get a quote for a ride from the cumberland hotel to heathrow airport by AL (add lee) and you will see it comes in around £66, in a black cab it goes approx £60 and i'm sure you will find a smaller PH outfit doing it for around £45. Where it makes a difference is that with traffic the meter in the taxi may climb up a bit further than you may want to pay!! Trust me, i'm a user of taxis as well as a driver and i've sat in the back cringing at the meter clocking up when stuck in traffic. I would say that generally for travelling in and around town we are cheaper as we don't have a minimum fare like many PH do......... believe me they wouldn't wait at Paddington station for 30 minutes on some days only to get a £3.00 job to the Royal Lancaster hotel!! Hate it when it happens but that's the luck of the draw.

Our earnings! Why the obsession with what we earn, you never hear us asking our customers what they earn  I know drivers who gross £25k and i know drivers who manage to hit the £50k gross - believe me the guys hitting the big money are working long hours and a minimum of 6 days. For every fare we get that goes £25 we get many, many more that go £5. We sadly do not drop off and then pick up instantly; i've driven around for an hour or more without even a look from a potential ride which suddenly makes that £25 ride you paid me for a £12.50 an hour rate! Take out vehicle repayments; fuel; insurance; servicing etc etc and those numbers suddenly start to look quite ordinary. I've spoken to drivers who were cabbies in the 70's and they admit that at that time they were earning the same as doctors; bank managers and solicitors - damn i wish it was like that now! Unfortunately their ignorance in those times of refusing fares; picking and choosing jobs and not wanting to work in the outer areas led to the rise of the minicab and ergo the reduction in fares using taxis - you or in this case your replacements reap what you sow! 

Racist cabbies - i'd say no more than racist couriers; bankers; lawyers; politicians; bus drivers;ski instructors and any other collective of people regardless of industry. I don't give a monkeys about the colour of a persons skin or whether they are covered head to toes in black finery. Look around at Londons cabbies and i mean look and you will see a very diverse range of nationalities driving a taxi. Irish; English; Somalian; African; West Indian; Polish; Italian; Czech; Chinese; American; Australian; Indian. The trade has them all so it's a terrible cliche to say we are all racists. I know a good number of female cabbies also and they will tell you that they had to suffer no more or no less to get their badge. The knowledge has no restrictions in terms of sex; age or nationality - indeed it should be winning awards, this industry is giving employment to a sector many other industries reject. Again i say to anyone who is subjected to racist abuse, get the number off the back of the taxi and report the driver - they give us a bad name and we don't want them in our trade!

Going the long way around. My favourite. To my mind it's just not worth doing it. What more would i earn by going "the long way around" on an average fare? £60p, £1.40 perhaps ? Hardly worth it! My aim is to take you from A to B quickly and get you there safely and then hopefully get the next fare in as soon as possible. By taking a few extra turns to earn an extra pound i'm potentially turning my back on another fare which starts at £2.20 and may be going to the other side of London! I'm sure some drivers do it but also please consider (and i speak from experience) that sometimes the driver is aware of an accident on your normal route or knows that traffic is particularly bad in an area and is doing his best to avoid said trouble spots - trust me, we can take you from A to B in a very direct line but you would be screaming at us if we did so - hehe, reminds me of my first week as a cabby:

Picked up a guy from Paddington who wanted to go to the City. I headed off all keen and eventually ended up at Park Lane and about to turn left into Upper Brook St - the guy in the back started going mental about my route and when i explained to him that the line took me through Mayfair into Piccadilly and down Haymarket towards Trafalgar Sqaure he was very quick to suss i was a newbie! He lightnened up and gave me 3 bits of advice that are still valid now (though with the bus lane along Marylebone rd, less so) and that i still use...................his advice? Park Lane, through the park, along the river! A good driving route though sadly messed up by the lights at Admiralty Arch but none the less very quick going from West to East at night when i'm often at work.

Apologies for my ramblings but it's offensive when i read many mis-truths and inaccuracies regards my industry. we're not perfect nor do we claim to be but we do have pride in our trade and the knowledge of London. We're also acutely aware that much can be done to improve our image to some - we're on the road 24/7 so we're going to upset or offend someone - we stop suddenly; we U-turn we refuse fares etc etc. I've heard them all and tried to counter the arguments on many occasions. I've been verbally abused by people at parties whom i've never met simply because when asked what i do for a living i tell them i'm a cabby!!! 

Good luck to all, i've got my flame proof jacket on so am just about ready for the abuse


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## editor (Apr 18, 2011)

Cheers nuckin fackard . I'm sure someone will be along to argue the toss soon!


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## nuckin fackard (Apr 18, 2011)

lol, yeah.

not sure what i've let myself in for!


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## IC3D (Apr 18, 2011)

Cabbies have taken my pushbike which is great I don't use them much for that reason. Times I've been with people lately they've called Addisonlee which came really quick, are they tough on business nuckin?


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## nuckin fackard (Apr 18, 2011)

They've taken a fair bit of the corporate work. The run of the mill street hire stuff doesn't interest John Griffin, sadly some of his drivers have a different opinion and can sometimes be seen touting the public here and there.

As i understand their business model they employ drivers on a "self employed" basis but rent the vehicle to them and make them pay a substantial sum towards insurance, running costs etc. Any cash work they get via the AL booking system is paid to them in full but they only get a small percentage of the account work which makes up the bulk of their income.

It's no secret that the daily mirror was looking at them quite closely in an exposé on exploitation practices in the workplace - i understand some drivers take home way below minimum wage sometimes but i do have to add that is hearsay and rumour!

What John Griffin is VERY good at is publicity - heck i wish the guy was on our side as our own trade leaders are a joke and stuck in the past. He gets his name in the papers or on TV in a variety of ways and i'm sure the generous donations he makes to certain parties or individuals allegedly open a few doors for him. There are many PH companies but he's managed to make his company synonymous with PH transportation and a viable alternative to taxis. Just like much in life, the reality is often very different. 

Much of his labour is foreign and thus have a limited grasp on the English language. They take a basic topographical knowledge but this is really basic - as an example given to me by a PH driver a few years back:

You're at Marble Arch and need to go to Liverpool St station. Do you go North; East; South or West?

Because the jobs are pre-booked and the destination is generally known (though obviously can change en route as happens with us) the guy can tap any postcode the controllers give him into his little box of tricks and it gives him a route. All well and good but having tried out a tomtom in town if i followed it to the route it suggested i would have been stuck along piccadilly in traffic when i could easily have taken a cheeky little left into Albermarle St and "ducked" around the back. Someone who is wholly dependent on a satnav and may not have the confidence of his ability in the English language to discuss other options with his customer may not have the confidence to take that left turn and instead just sit in the traffic until good old tomtom shouts left into Regent St (also missing the new left into Air St) and makes the customer late!

As i say i don't dislike AL, i think they are the best of the PH mob though the drivers are not always the most informed.

Another thing that annoys me...........cabbies who refuse wheel chair jobs with lame arse excuses like "i don't have the ramps in the boot"! Again, anyone have this problem then report the f**kers!


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## IC3D (Apr 18, 2011)

AL seem alright, my neighbor works for them he is Ugandan and seems to make enough for his family though he works long hours, wears a suit to work which is kind of cool in my book. I'm curious about what he gets now but I don't want to nose into the guys business really. I did tell them a short cut or two but it wouldn't of made any difference cos its been charged already if I remember correctly


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## Sunray (Apr 19, 2011)

I think that for Black Cabs to get to grips with AL, they need a single controller.  The independent worker is fine but I tried to book a cab for xmas day and the firm I used had to refund my deposit 3 days before due to lack of drivers.

When I arrived at the hotel I went to, via Addison Lee, they had at least 5 cars out side. 

I'd like to be able to book a black cab as much as a AL cab, but the black cab will charge me from the moment they start driving to me rather than when I get in an leave. Simple things like this force me to go to Addison Lee.

Addison Lee might treat their drivers a bit crap, but they do the job I ask, so its hard not to use them. Round here I am unlikely to see a black cab when I need one so it PH or the tube.


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## silverfish (Apr 19, 2011)

Jump in a black cab at Heathrow and ask for Richmond as see how far the friendly goodwill and knowledge of the black cab driver gets you...

Moaning old bastards, some of them are verbally agressive just because they can't pick and choose the prime fares and fuck of the less profitable/less easy ones that don't fit in with their "Knocking off" timetable

I enjoy seeing their pain TBH

Having said that, similar airport taxi systems round the world cause nause with taxi drivers, I had to get out of a taxi in Brisbane, the bloke was giving me such a hard time for having to pick up a short fare


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## TruXta (Apr 19, 2011)

silverfish said:


> Jump in a black cab at Heathrow and ask for Richmond as see how far the friendly goodwill and knowledge of the black cab driver gets you...
> 
> Moaning old bastards, some of them are verbally agressive just because they can't pick and choose the prime fares and fuck of the less profitable/less easy ones that don't fit in with their "Knocking off" timetable
> 
> ...


 
And I bet you're a delightful customer, fishy...


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## paolo (Apr 19, 2011)

The Heathrow queue - (I think) - is special in this respect. There's a timed ticket on exit, so if they get short fare, they can come back and queue jump. So there's a system built to protect their wait time. It protects themselves only from themselves. If they get caught the wrong side of the line, that's a very shite moan. "I want the system to favour me, and not favour my peers". F. Off.


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## silverfish (Apr 19, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> The Heathrow queue - (I think) - is special in this respect. There's a timed ticket on exit, so if they get short fare, they can come back and queue jump. So there's a system built to protect their wait time. It protects themselves only from themselves. If they get caught the wrong side of the line, that's a very shite moan. "*I want the system to favour me, and not favour my peers*". F. Off.



Gotta laugh at that, I'm working with guys (some of them young) who are wearing solidarity t-shirts and calling each other comrade, as well as having daily meetings to argue about what they are not going to to do next

A very active union and on serious rockstar wages but........while they a good upstanding members banging out the party line and talking about scabs and foreign workers they need protection from. 

They will happily fuck each other up the arrse with a big rough stick to maximise their own wack  ie *I want the system to favour me, and not favour my peers
*

Human nature, yarping on about the collective, but when the time comes to take a little pain for the collective, its everyman for himself


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## jimmymc (Apr 19, 2011)

the driver does not take that 12.5%,the card company and /or the radio circuit take it,the driver takes whats on the meter,and their not overpriced


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## silverfish (Apr 19, 2011)

interweb karma bites me on the arse again, I find out I'm flying into London 1400 on the 29Th April after slagging off black cab drivers...


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## TitanSound (Apr 19, 2011)

nuckin fackard said:


> Hi all, first post here and an interesting thread (for me) so please be gentle.



Didn't want to quote the whole post for the pages sake but, nice post. Always good to get the viewpoint of the accused 

I've only ever had a couple of issues with bad taxi drivers. One refusing a fare and one where the driver was a complete arse when I pointed out he was going the long way round. It's a route I knew well. He then called me a "fucking cunt" when I only paid 80% of the fare.


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## spanglechick (Apr 19, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I think that for Black Cabs to get to grips with AL, they need a single controller.  The independent worker is fine but I tried to book a cab for xmas day and the firm I used had to refund my deposit 3 days before due to lack of drivers.
> 
> When I arrived at the hotel I went to, via Addison Lee, they had at least 5 cars out side.
> 
> ...


 
if you want to prebook, there's a concern called TweetaLondonCab -  On loger journeys - airports and such - they do a fixed price and promise to undercut Add Lee by 10%. Otherwise it's on the meter but you can (have to) book in advance.


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## Streathamite (Apr 19, 2011)

nuckin fackard said:


> Hi all, first post here and an interesting thread (for me) so please be gentle.
> 
> I'm a london Cabby, have been for 13 years. Took 3 years to do the knowledge and having done the job for some time now don't regret it and neither wish it had taken less! I've 2 friends who i completed the knowledge with who came from PH (minicabbing) and in their own words it's a totally different job though obviously both have glaring similarities.
> 
> ...


that is an excellent first post.


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## Giles (Apr 23, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> Sounds like you've used them more than me.
> 
> Mine were all cheery, helping out with bags and stuff. Quite possible you've got the better measure, but my experience wuth AddLeee was really good.
> 
> ...


 
I always thought that, as part of "the knowledge" that london cabbies also have to do "the ignorance" by demonstrating that they can, from any reasonable starting passenger comment, get to "string em up, its the only language they understand" by way of "they're coming over here taking our jobs" within half a Daily Mail read distance from Charing Cross? 

Or did I read this in Viz?

Giles..


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## Giles (Apr 23, 2011)

silverfish said:


> Jump in a black cab at Heathrow and ask for Richmond as see how far the friendly goodwill and knowledge of the black cab driver gets you...
> 
> Moaning old bastards, some of them are verbally agressive just because they can't pick and choose the prime fares and fuck of the less profitable/less easy ones that don't fit in with their "Knocking off" timetable
> 
> ...



My sis caught the "not happy with a shortish fare" once when she jumped in a black cab at Heathrow, late at night, girl on her own, etc etc, BUT she lived in Osterley (not far from Heathrow) and as soon as she told him where she wanted, he literally stopped on a dual carriageway, told her she was "taking the piss" and ranted on and on about how he had 5 kids to feed, and it was people like her who were entirely to blame if he couldn't feed them. He was so expecting a biggish Heathrow to central London fare, that when he realised he wasn't going to get one, properly lost the plot.

He'd probably queued for ages at Heathrow, so you could see he was pissed off, but still....... it wasn't her fault where she lived, she did not deceive him about where she wanted to go. He just took off from the airport, and then said "where do you want, love?" and then chucked her out and drove off because he didn't get his £60+ fare to the middle of London.....

Giles..


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## Sophia Mason (Oct 26, 2017)

Yes there were the days when they had their monopoly, but it’s over now. Uber is spreading all over the world now. As far as the cab companies are concerned there is a rush in the Uk streets. You can see MY MULTI COLOURED SPINCHTER, railway service and area to area coverage. Now traveling has become more easy and cheap due to growing competition.

*slight edit by editor


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## NoXion (Oct 26, 2017)

Multi-coloured? Groovy.


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## TopCat (Oct 27, 2017)

Sophia Mason said:


> Yes there were the days when they had their monopoly, but it’s over now. Uber is spreading all over the world now. As far as the cab companies are concerned there is a rush in the Uk streets. You can see MY MULTI COLOURED SPINCHTER, railway service and area to area coverage. Now traveling has become more easy and cheap due to growing competition.
> 
> *slight edit by editor


Eh?


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## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

TopCat said:


> Eh?


I thought I'd mess with the head of a spammer.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> I thought I'd mess with the head of a spammer.


could you re-edit and put sphincter right?


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## Sophia Mason (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> I thought I'd mess with the head of a spammer.



its SPHINCTER not SPINCHTER my dear editor. and sorry to say take care of spam you do in real life.


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## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2017)

A SPINCHTER is an unmarried female arsehole


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## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

Sophia Mason said:


> its SPHINCTER not SPINCHTER my dear editor. and sorry to say take care of spam you do in real life.


Before you go, how's the weather in the Punjab today?


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## Shechemite (Nov 4, 2017)

Sophia Mason said:


> and sorry to say take care of spam you do in real life.



Is that you Yoda?


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## hash tag (Nov 7, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> A SPINCHTER is an unmarried female arsehole



As opposed to Bachelor; an unmarried male knob.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 7, 2017)

hash tag said:


> As opposed to Bachelor; an unmarried male knob.


You don't really get jokes, do you?


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## hash tag (Nov 7, 2017)

I think I probably did, but, oh never mind


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