# How are digital movies distributed?



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 16, 2010)

Films that are shot on film have thousands of duplicates made, which are then shipped out to cinemas all over the world. Projectionists have to thread them into the projector and then show the film.

But how are films that were shot digitally distributed? Does the cinema get a DVD, or a laserdisc, or a hard drive, or what?


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## danny la rouge (Jun 16, 2010)

They are emailed to the projectionists' iPhones.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 16, 2010)

Thought someone might know this. Guess I have to do my own research, then:



> A movie can be distributed via hard drives, optical disks (such as DVDs) or satellite...


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_cinema

There's lots of other interesting stuff in that article.


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## Redeyes (Jun 16, 2010)

I'm a projectionist at an all digital multiplex, we converted from 35mm in February.

Here's the hard drive (called a DCP - Digital Cinema Package) for The Lovely Bones






File size for that film was about 150 gig. Avatar 3D is about 280.

We get the drives couriered to us and generally the keys to open the files are emailed to us.


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## ExtraRefined (Jun 16, 2010)

Redeyes said:


> I'm a projectionist at an all digital multiplex, we converted from 35mm in February.
> 
> Here's the hard drive (called a DCP - Digital Cinema Package) for The Lovely Bones
> 
> ...



Upload them to bittorrent kthx


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## WWWeed (Jun 16, 2010)

Redeyes said:


> I'm a projectionist at an all digital multiplex, we converted from 35mm in February.
> 
> Here's the hard drive (called a DCP - Digital Cinema Package) for The Lovely Bones
> 
> ...



I find it fascinating that even through its digital you still use couriers to move the data around!

I take it its just a standard hard drive in a special caddy?


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## Redeyes (Jun 16, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> I find it fascinating that even through its digital you still use couriers to move the data around!
> 
> I take it its just a standard hard drive in a special caddy?



Yeah, it's a standard hard drive, the caddy slips off so we can upload the data via a CRU port on our main server. Takes about 40 minutes to transfer a feature across from a portable drive.

The technology is in place to deliver the files via satellite but from what I'm lead to believe there's still concerns from the distributors about the satellite feed being intercepted, security of the data etc.

The current method is pretty solid though. Even when the file is on our main server we still can't play the film until we get a 'key' from the distributors. The 'key' is a coded file made specifically for our site telling the computer which screen we can play the film in and also to only allow it to be played within a specific time period.


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 16, 2010)

Redeyes said:


> I'm a projectionist at an all digital multiplex, we converted from 35mm in February.
> 
> We get the drives couriered to us and generally the keys to open the files are emailed to us.


Cool, thanks.  Is it entirely done with drives or do you ever get them on other media like DVDs? What about short films (if you ever show those)?


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## Redeyes (Jun 16, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Cool, thanks.  Is it entirely done with drives or do you ever get them on other media like DVDs? What about short films (if you ever show those)?



All the 'mainstream' films come on hard drives. We have played a couple of films from DVD but they don't look too good upscaled to 4K (we're using the Sony 4K projectors). Luckily pretty much everything we need is available on hard drive, we're a mainstream cinema in a fairly large town so our film booker tends to stick with the run of the mill crowd pleasers.

Blu-rays look really great, though we've yet to have anything supplied to us on that format. I've tried out a couple of my own though...


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 16, 2010)

Surely shipping Blu-rays with encryption keys would be a whole lot more cost effective than shipping hard drives. I'd have thought anyway.


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## Redeyes (Jun 16, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Surely shipping Blu-rays with encryption keys would be a whole lot more cost effective than shipping hard drives. I'd have thought anyway.



The files on the drives are JPEG2000 and come in either 2k or 4k resolution with the files size being anything from 50gig to 400gig+. I'm not sure if a Blu-ray could carry that data (I think standard Blu-rays can hold up to 50gig?), plus it would still need ripping from the disc and transferring to the main server.

Also the disc would still have to be sent via courier to assure the distributors that the item was being sent securely. I doubt the charges would be that much different between sending a box with a Blu-ray in or a box with a hard drive in?


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 16, 2010)

You could just order them from LoveFilm.


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## Redeyes (Jun 16, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> You could just order them from LoveFilm.



If we worked the timings out and got the staff to keep signing up for the free trials I reckon we could get about 18 months worth of free rentals off them.


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## pesh (Jun 16, 2010)

what sort of signal is the server sending the projector out of interest?
and whats stopping you recording the output


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## pesh (Jun 16, 2010)

double post


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## Redeyes (Jun 16, 2010)

pesh said:


> what sort of signal is the server sending the projector out of interest?
> and whats stopping you recording the output



Not sure what you mean by 'signal', the files are JPEG2000 and are either 2k or 4k in resolution. The 3D is 2k dual image using the Sony RealD system.

We can't record the output as the part of the projector where the 'key' unlocks the 'film' is housed in an enclosure that is riddled with security devices. If I was to try and take a panel off that part of the projector the whole thing would shut down and we could only get back up and running after security checks are done and Sony re-set the server. Plus there's no 'out' sockets to take a feed from, you'd have to hack into the electronics to get a signal output.

The only way to record the film would be to film it off the screen and even then each projector puts an invisible watermark on the film which can be used to identify which cinema was showing the film, what time the show was played and even which member of staff was on duty at that time.


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 16, 2010)

Perhaps a courtroom artist could draw frantically during the film and create an animation as a workaround?


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## bi0boy (Jun 16, 2010)

Redeyes said:


> I'm a projectionist at an all digital multiplex, we converted from 35mm in February.


Do you still have jobs? I thought digital multiplexes could operate with just one guy running round the different screens and pressing play, rather than having one projectionist per movie?


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## Zabo (Jun 16, 2010)

Thank You Redeyes. Most informative and appreciated.


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## Redeyes (Jun 17, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Do you still have jobs? I thought digital multiplexes could operate with just one guy running round the different screens and pressing play, rather than having one projectionist per movie?



Yes, I have a job. Though instead of having three projectionists we now have just the two. One person on duty at a time. The automation that digital alows means we can finish our shifts before the last film has finished, whereas with 35mm we had to stay until the end, hence the loss of hours for our department. We don't need to run around pressing play either, it's all controlled from one main control centre.

Then again when we had 35mm we didn't need to run around pressing play either as the projectors set themselves off as they had onboard timers. There was also still only one person on duty at a time then too and we have 9 screens to look after.

Back when we had 35mm the main bulk of my day was taken up by threading the projectors after each show and building up and breaking down the prints that were either coming in or on their way out. These days now we're digital my job is more IT based with most of my work involving the transferring of the film files from the hard drives to our server, chasing up keys, scheduling the shows and maintenence around the building and in the projection box.


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## Flavour (Jun 17, 2010)

Redeyes said:


> The only way to record the film would be to film it off the screen and even then each projector puts an invisible watermark on the film which can be used to identify which cinema was showing the film, what time the show was played and even which member of staff was on duty at that time.



THATS CRAZY


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## bi0boy (Jun 17, 2010)

Redeyes said:


> Yes, I have a job. Though instead of having three projectionists we now have just the two. One person on duty at a time. The automation that digital alows means we can finish our shifts before the last film has finished, whereas with 35mm we had to stay until the end, hence the loss of hours for our department. We don't need to run around pressing play either, it's all controlled from one main control centre.
> 
> Then again when we had 35mm we didn't need to run around pressing play either as the projectors set themselves off as they had onboard timers. There was also still only one person on duty at a time then too and we have 9 screens to look after.
> 
> Back when we had 35mm the main bulk of my day was taken up by threading the projectors after each show and building up and breaking down the prints that were either coming in or on their way out. These days now we're digital my job is more IT based with most of my work involving the transferring of the film files from the hard drives to our server, chasing up keys, scheduling the shows and maintenence around the building and in the projection box.



Oh I thought projectionists had to sit through the film changing reels every so often (when the black oval pops up in the top right?) and trying not to get their hair caught in the thing (I saw a copy of Natural Born Killers get melted in two places this way by one unfortunate guy). I guess maybe you had more advanced projectors that you could load the entire movie onto?


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## Redeyes (Jun 17, 2010)

bi0boy said:


> Oh I thought projectionists had to sit through the film changing reels every so often (when the black oval pops up in the top right?) and trying not to get their hair caught in the thing (I saw a copy of Natural Born Killers get melted in two places this way by one unfortunate guy). I guess maybe you had more advanced projectors that you could load the entire movie onto?



No, back in the 60's platter systems were invented that effectively changed the cinema industry. These systems allowed a film to be made up into one big reel and played from start to finish without the need for reel changes. This meant that multiplexes could have loads of screens and not have to pay someone to sit next to the projector and change reels every 40 minutes or so.

Here's one of our old platters with a copy of AVATAR on...






We'd take the film from the centre and thread it through the projector so that when it came out the otherside it would wind back onto the spare platter...






When the film had finshed it was ready to go again, we'd take the film and lace it through the projector and it would run back onto the platter it was on previously.

Here's one of our old 35mm projectors...






And the new digital projector that repaced it...


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## TitanSound (Jun 17, 2010)

Wow, look at the ventilation on the new digital one. I am guessing that's sucking the hot air out?


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## editor (Jun 17, 2010)

Rarely has a poster's question been so comprehensively answered - nice one Redeyes!


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## Motown_ben (Jun 17, 2010)

This thread is .


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## Hoss (Jun 17, 2010)

Great thread 

Thanks, Redeyes.


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## yardbird (Jun 17, 2010)

Facinating. Thanks Redeyes


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## alsoknownas (Jun 17, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Films that are shot on film have thousands of duplicates made, which are then shipped out to cinemas all over the world. Projectionists have to thread them into the projector and then show the film.
> 
> But how are films that were shot digitally distributed? Does the cinema get a DVD, or a laserdisc, or a hard drive, or what?


Just wanted to point out that acquisition (what you shoot a film on) and exhibition (what you screen it on) are quite independent of each other.  So for example, if you saw The Blair Witch Project (which was mostly shot on video) in the cinema it would have been screened on film, having been transfered frame-by-frame.  
Alternatively, if you go to Redeye's cinema and watch say, Rashômon (out on re-release ), you'd be watching a film shot on film, but screened using a digital projection system.
Just pointing this out as I thought there was some room for confusion in the OP.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 17, 2010)

Do the HDs get delivered to multiple cinemas, or does each site get it's own HDD? I realise that a load of HDs is still going to be a _lot_ cheaper than 35mm (I used to book cinema advertising and the first time I was presented with the bill for the film I nearly fell over!), but that seems like a lot of wasted HDs (or do you send them back when they've been copied?)

Possiboly the most interesting thread on Urban for a while.


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## bi0boy (Jun 17, 2010)

Redeyes said:


> No, back in the 60's platter systems were invented that effectively changed the cinema industry. These systems allowed a film to be made up into one big reel and played from start to finish without the need for reel changes. This meant that multiplexes could have loads of screens and not have to pay someone to sit next to the projector and change reels every 40 minutes or so.



Wow thanks for that, it's more hi-tech than I imagined.

I always thought it was something like this only a bit bigger:


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## Redeyes (Jun 17, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Do the HDs get delivered to multiple cinemas, or does each site get it's own HDD? I realise that a load of HDs is still going to be a _lot_ cheaper than 35mm (I used to book cinema advertising and the first time I was presented with the bill for the film I nearly fell over!), but that seems like a lot of wasted HDs (or do you send them back when they've been copied?)



For the 'big' films like, say, TOY STORY 3 each site will get their own HD. Smaller independant films will have a lot fewer HDs which will be passed around. We had a show of LA TRAVIATA a few weeks back and we had to transfer it straight to our system and a courier picked it up the next day so it could go to another site.

All the HDs get returned and re-used though.


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## Redeyes (Jun 17, 2010)

TitanSound said:


> Wow, look at the ventilation on the new digital one. I am guessing that's sucking the hot air out?



Yes, there's a 3000w Xenon lamp in the back of the projector that needs to kept as cool as possible!


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## danny la rouge (Jun 17, 2010)

This thread has been very interesting.  I'm going to be incredibly boring at parties now.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 17, 2010)

Redeyes said:


> Yes, there's a 3000w Xenon lamp in the back of the projector that needs to kept as cool as possible!



Do you use it as a grow lamp between shows?


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## TitanSound (Jun 17, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Do you use it as a grow lamp between shows?



The username would suggest so


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## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

I'm amazed that the 35mm film just flows through the free air in and out of the projector. It must pick up loads of dust


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 17, 2010)

One of the most noticeable things about digital projectors is the lack of magnified dust particles on the screens IME.


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## Idaho (Jun 17, 2010)

Top thread 

It's making me want to go to the cinema and bore Ms Idaho with my new found knowledge.


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## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> One of the most noticeable things about digital projectors is the lack of magnified dust particles on the screens IME.


And the absolutely rock-steady picture. You can tell it's digital when the BBFC certificate doesn't wobble about


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## Redeyes (Jun 17, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I'm amazed that the 35mm film just flows through the free air in and out of the projector. It must pick up loads of dust



One of the main things we did when we had 35mm was to make sure we swept and mopped regularly and cleaned out the film gate and path after every show.

We also had to check the films when they were on screen every half an hour or so to make sure a hair hadn't found it's way onto the aperture plate and was dancing away in the middle of the image.



> And the absolutely rock-steady picture. You can tell it's digital when the BBFC certificate doesn't wobble about



After doing this job for the last 10 years it was a joy to behold a rock solid BBFC cert. 



One of the best things about digital for me is knowing that the image will be perfect for every show. It did my head in when we'd get a scratch on the 35mm and I knew people were paying good money to watch a poorly presented show.


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## 19sixtysix (Jun 17, 2010)

Redeyes as a projectionist what do you think about the resolution and quality of the digital product? So far in the digital cinemas I been to, I have not been impressed by the digital copy. They all seem to have a problem with slow panned scenes looking jerky.


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## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

oh god, I remember seeing attack of the clones and it was _terrible_. Lucas used 1080p resolution cameras and then even cropped _that_ for closeups where he'd only shot wide. Compression and noise all over the image. Looked awful. Shit movie too, but it could have looked so much better.

But that's not about projectors, so I'll shut up


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## Pingu (Jun 17, 2010)

editor said:


> Rarely has a poster's question been so comprehensively answered - nice one Redeyes!


 

indeed

i have learnt stuff from this thread


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 17, 2010)

Trufact. The BBFC certificate that you see on screen is a piece of black card which is filmed for a few seconds. We had the actual card for one of our films when I worked at Warners.


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## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

surely they make them on computers now!

also, wouldn't it be easier to make it on white card and then invert the colours in the lab?


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## Redeyes (Jun 17, 2010)

19sixtysix said:


> Redeyes as a projectionist what do you think about the resolution and quality of the digital product? So far in the digital cinemas I been to, I have not been impressed by the digital copy. They all seem to have a problem with slow panned scenes looking jerky.



After having looked at 35mm everyday since I started working in the cinema, which was back in 1997, I am really impressed with how the films look on screen at our place.

Bear in mind though that we are using the Sony Cine Alta 4K projectors which can not only display 4K images but also upscales 2K images to 4K.

2K being slightly higher res than 1080p and 4K being four times the res of 2K

I'd stick my neck out and say that the Sony projectors put out an image that is as good as a perfectly presented 35mm show.

I've not had chance to see any films shown on other digital cinema projectors though so can't really comment on the quality of those. Though I do know most of the digital projectors currently being used in cinemas are only 2K.


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## Idaho (Jun 17, 2010)

So what's happening to all the old 35m films? Is there going to be a boom in independent cinemas as they will be able to buy up libraries of old films?


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## Buddy Bradley (Jun 17, 2010)

Another question: How do you do the adverts, previews and cinema warnings (don't smoke, turn off your phones, etc.) that are shown before the feature? Are they all on separate disks and need to be cued up manually, or do you just stick a chunk of data on the front of each feature and let the whole thing play? Do the distributors or the cinema chain decide which trailers go with which feature?

And how did it used to work when showing 35mm features?


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## kyser_soze (Jun 17, 2010)

Redeyes: very quiet on the subject of multi-use lamp technologies


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## souljacker (Jun 17, 2010)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Another question: How do you do the adverts, previews and cinema warnings (don't smoke, turn off your phones, etc.) that are shown before the feature? Are they all on separate disks and need to be cued up manually, or do you just stick a chunk of data on the front of each feature and let the whole thing play? Do the distributors or the cinema chain decide which trailers go with which feature?
> 
> And how did it used to work when showing 35mm features?


 
And where, in the name of god, do you get that horrible orange 'cheese' that goes on the Nachos you can buy to eat? Because whoever makes it needs to be shot.


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## kyser_soze (Jun 17, 2010)

That's just standard pre-cut cheesy single slices stuff. You can buy it from supermarkets.


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