# Recommend some sci-fi books I might like



## stuff_it (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm rapidly running out. Have pretty much read all of Greg Egan, Ken McLeod, Ian M Banks, Richard Morgan...

Got through most of the classics like Azimov as a nipper. 

Have got a subscription to Azimovs Science Fiction, and currently working my way through back issues of Interzone that are available in the Amazon store. 

This owning a Kindle business is kind of expensive, but tbf I don't drink in the week any more...


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## gabi (Aug 29, 2012)

Arthur C Clarke


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## stuff_it (Aug 29, 2012)

gabi said:


> Arthur C Clarke


Read most of those already too. 

What can I say, I'm a quick reader. Got through most of them before I got to big school.


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## ruffneck23 (Aug 29, 2012)

vurt by jeff noon, its all abut the feathers


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## machine cat (Aug 29, 2012)

Alistair Reynolds?


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## 8ball (Aug 29, 2012)

Crispy recommended _Consider Phlebas_ to me on a previous thread.

I'm enjoying it so far - proper space-opera romp, it is.


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## stuff_it (Aug 29, 2012)

8ball said:


> Crispy recommended _Consider Phlebas_ to me on a previous thread.
> 
> I'm enjoying it so far - proper space-opera romp, it is.


I've read all of Ian M Banks, as per OP. I know a new one is out soon but it's expensive in pre-order so I will probably wait a few months.


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## cesare (Aug 29, 2012)

So you've done Asimov and Clarke. How about Heinlein?


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## Orang Utan (Aug 29, 2012)

Just dl a torrent of it and ignore it forever like wot I did


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## machine cat (Aug 29, 2012)

Dick?


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## TruXta (Aug 29, 2012)

Read any Gene Wolfe? Doesn't sit easily within the sci-fi genre, but then again he doesn't sit easily within any genre. Book of the New Sun is the most famous work, but there's loads more. The Fifth Head of Cerberus is great, as is Peace.


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## bi0boy (Aug 29, 2012)

Peter F Hamilton, his standalone novel Fallen Dragon is my fav.


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## stuff_it (Aug 29, 2012)

cesare said:


> So you've done Asimov and Clarke. How about Heinlein?


A fair bit.



machine cat said:


> Dick?


Quite a fair bit but I don't think all of it's been done in yet, though I could be wrong.

A novel lasts me about 3-4 days at most, sometimes less.


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## TruXta (Aug 29, 2012)

Gravity's Rainbow might as well be sci-fi, so I'll recommend that too.


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## Idris2002 (Aug 29, 2012)

Joanna Russ, though her novel _The Female Man _lacks the concentrated frisson of the related short story "When it Changed".

M. John Harrison's _Light _is also good.


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## 8ball (Aug 29, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> I've read all of Ian M Banks, as per OP. I know a new one is out soon but it's expensive in pre-order so I will probably wait a few months.


 
D'Oh!!  My brain is a bit funny with spelling.  Now, if you'd said _Iain_ M. Banks...


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## TruXta (Aug 29, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> M. John Harrison's _Light _is also good.


 
As is his Nova Twist. I mean Nova Swing.


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## Idris2002 (Aug 29, 2012)

Oh, and has the OP read Charlie Stross yet? If not, a whole cornucopia of SFnal delights awaits him/her.


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## Idris2002 (Aug 29, 2012)

Bob Shaw's also worth reading, as was the recently deceased Harry Harrison.


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## ice-is-forming (Aug 29, 2012)

http://books.google.com.au/books/about/Necroville.html?id=y-PVR8eeyogC&redir_esc=y


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## Firky (Aug 29, 2012)

Murakami is worth checking out. Very different kind of sci-fi. I could reel off all the SF authors I have read but some aren't that good, e.g. Paolo Bacigalupi.

Simon Morden's stuff is dead easy to read and 'fun' like the Takeshi Kovacs novels...



Idris2002 said:


> Oh, and has the OP read Charlie Stross yet? If not, a whole cornucopia of SFnal delights awaits him/her.


 
The Atrocity Archives is good.


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## TruXta (Aug 29, 2012)

firky said:


> Murakami is worth checking out. Very different kind of sci-fi. I could reel off all the SF authors I have read but some aren't that good, e.g. Paolo Bacigalupi.


 
I quite enjoyed the Windup Girl.


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## Firky (Aug 29, 2012)

I found it unintentionally funny, the bit where he cycled like mad to throw her in the sea to cool down just lol, like something out of Last of the Summer Wine. All it needed was a bathtub.


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## Stigmata (Aug 29, 2012)

Get a few volumes of the _Mammoth Book of Best New SF_, edited by Gardner Dozois. You're bound to discover some decent new authors in those collections.


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## Knotted (Aug 29, 2012)

Thomas Disch. Especially his short stories.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 29, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I quite enjoyed the Windup Girl.


Do you mean The Wind Up Bird Chronicle? I loved that. Dance, Dance, Dance and A Wild Sheep Chase are great too. His later stuff has even more of a scifi tinge apparently, but it remains unread on my shelf.


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## stuff_it (Aug 29, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I quite enjoyed the Windup Girl.


Read it already... 



Orang Utan said:


> Do you mean The Wind Up Bird Chronicle? I loved that. Dance, Dance, Dance and A Wild Sheep Chase are great too. His later stuff has even more of a scifi tinge apparently, but it remains unread on my shelf.


No, he means The Windup Girl by Paulo Bacigalupi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Windup_Girl


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## TruXta (Aug 29, 2012)

She has it right. Get thee some Gene Wolfe!


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## Idris2002 (Aug 29, 2012)

I don't know if it's available any more, but Sheckley's _The Status Society _is one that has stuck in my mind since I read it. In fact, I should probably read it again.

Fredrik Pohl's _Gateway _is also good, as are his collaborations with C.M. Kornbluth, _Gladiator at Law _and _The Space Merchants. _The latter is set in a world where the advertising agencies run everything, and the hero is a Don Draper type who has his eyes opened to the real horrors of his society.


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## BigTom (Aug 29, 2012)

Have a look through the SF masterworks series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SF_Masterworks

I've often bought a book in that series I've never heard of and they have all been excellent.


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## yield (Aug 29, 2012)

ruffneck23 said:


> vurt by jeff noon, its all abut the feathers


Pollen is decent too though not as good as first. A Lewis Carroll and Kurt Vonnegut inspired Manchester.

Only Forward by Michael Marshall Smith I'd recommend if you like Vurt.


BigTom said:


> Have a look through the SF masterworks series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SF_Masterworks
> 
> I've often bought a book in that series I've never heard of and they have all been excellent.


Great series. My favourite is The Stars My Destination (aka Tiger, Tiger) by Alfred Bester


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## Belushi (Aug 29, 2012)

Greg Bear if you like hard science fiction.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 29, 2012)

If we're on SF Masterworks, then it's Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes and Richard Matheson's I Am Legend.
I have also been recommended:
Joe Halderman - The Forever War
Poul Anderson - Tau Zero
Frederik Pohl - Jem
Frederik Pohl - Gateway
Philip K Dick - The Three Stigmata Of Palmer Eldritch
Arkady and Boris Stragatsky - Roadside Picnic

Two other recommendations:
John Christopher - The Death Of Grass
Christopher Priest - Fugue For A Darkening Island

I would also chow down on some Bradbury/Ellison/Ballard/Dick anthologies.


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## TruXta (Aug 29, 2012)

Roadside Picnic is excellent.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 29, 2012)

I really enjoyed the Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson recently. 

One good thing about sci fi is that it's normally easy to torrent.


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## spitfire (Aug 29, 2012)

Peter F. Hamilton. The Commonwealth Trilogy. Loved it.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 29, 2012)

spitfire said:


> Peter F. Hamilton. The Commonwealth Trilogy. Loved it.


 
As someone who quite likes his work, even the weirdness of nights dawn, I though it was a bit bland.


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## Belushi (Aug 29, 2012)

This is brilliant.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 29, 2012)

Belushi said:


> This is brilliant.


 
Just downloaded that ta.


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## Firky (Aug 29, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> I really enjoyed the Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson recently.


 
Ditto.

Crusty Chick said I'd like it! Great book.


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## spitfire (Aug 29, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> As someone who quite likes his work, even the weirdness of nights dawn, I though it was a bit bland.


 
Fair enough, it was my first exposure, I have now moved onto the Void Trilogy which is pretty out there for me.

The Primes scared the bejaysus out of me in the Commonwealth Saga.


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## stuff_it (Aug 29, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> I really enjoyed the Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson recently.
> 
> One good thing about sci fi is that it's normally easy to torrent.


I've read all of Neal Stephenson. 

*sigh*


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## Orang Utan (Aug 29, 2012)

I am still stuck on that SF Masterworks Wiki page and will be for the rest of the evening no doubt.
Wanna read all this chap's stories now:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordwainer_Smith#section_5


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## Orang Utan (Aug 29, 2012)

Have you read any Adam Roberts, stuff_it? He's brilliant.


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## Firky (Aug 29, 2012)

Stay clear of Stephen Baxter, he's shit.


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## Corax (Aug 29, 2012)

Belushi said:


> Greg Bear if you like hard science fiction.


Seconded. And also Alistair Reynolds (who machine cat recommended too).


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## stuff_it (Aug 29, 2012)

Corax said:


> Seconded. And also Alistair Reynolds (who machine cat recommended too).


Already been done.


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## marty21 (Aug 29, 2012)

Michael Marshall Smith - 'Spares' and 'Only forward'


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## ericjarvis (Aug 29, 2012)

Paul McAuley is the obvious name missing from your original list.


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## Corax (Aug 29, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Already been done.


Really?  Sorry.  I scanned through the thread twice and didn't spot them!



marty21 said:


> Michael Marshall Smith - 'Spares' and 'Only forward'


Yesyesyesyesyesyesyes!  'One of Us' as well.  I was really gutted when he stopped writing this stuff and switched to thrillers.


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## marty21 (Aug 29, 2012)

Corax said:


> Really? Sorry. I scanned through the thread twice and didn't spot them!
> 
> 
> Yesyesyesyesyesyesyes! 'One of Us' as well. I was really gutted when he stopped writing this stuff and switched to thrillers.


yep, forgot that one  I quite like his thrillers too tbh - but would like him to do some more sci fi


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## machine cat (Aug 29, 2012)

_Riddley Walker?_


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## Idris2002 (Aug 30, 2012)

Belushi said:


> This is brilliant.


 
Oh yes! Another good Eastern European Sci-fi cycle is Stanislaw Lem's _The Star Diaries, _featuring his space cadet hero Ijon Tichy. It's both sci-fi and political satire on the social order of Stalinism.


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## fractionMan (Aug 30, 2012)

Neal asher?


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## no-no (Aug 30, 2012)

How about these two?

Theodore Sturgeon - More Than Human
Robert Silverberg - Dying Inside


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## Random (Aug 30, 2012)

John Brunner; his masterwork is Stand on Zanzibar, but basically everything is good. Didn't see you mention jack Vance, but assume he was part of your big name reading back in the day.


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## Random (Aug 30, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Read any Gene Wolfe? Doesn't sit easily within the sci-fi genre, but then again he doesn't sit easily within any genre. Book of the New Sun is the most famous work, but there's loads more. The Fifth Head of Cerberus is great, as is Peace.


I've just read An Evil Guest, and now I'm waiting a year or so to digest it, then go back and read it with all the "unlockable extras" that were pointed out in the book's wiki entry.


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## TruXta (Aug 30, 2012)

Random said:


> John Brunner; his masterwork is Stand on Zanzibar, but basically everything is good. Didn't see you mention jack Vance, but assume he was part of your big name reading back in the day.


Tis very good.


Random said:


> I've just read An Evil Guest, and now I'm waiting a year or so to digest it, then go back and read it with all the "unlockable extras" that were pointed out in the book's wiki entry.


Ooo, not read that one. Was it good then?


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## Random (Aug 30, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Ooo, not read that one. Was it good then?


 Cthulu-noir. Lots of reviews on Amazon, etc saying it's disappointing and he's lost it, but I thought it was a satire of several genres at once, plus an unreliable narrative on several levels. And possible a re-writing of the Stigmata of Palmer Eldrich that actually makes sense.


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## Sir Belchalot (Aug 30, 2012)

Enjoyed The American Book of the Dead, reads like a Dick novel.  Can get it for free/donation here:

http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com/formats/


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

no-no said:


> How about these two?
> 
> Theodore Sturgeon - More Than Human
> Robert Silverberg - Dying Inside


Have read the first one, will give the other one a go.



Sir Belchalot said:


> Enjoyed The American Book of the Dead, reads like a Dick novel. Can get it for free/donation here:
> 
> http://www.theamericanbookofthedead.com/formats/


I quite liked that one...


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## fractionMan (Aug 30, 2012)

Read Neil Gaiman if you've not done so already.


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## cesare (Aug 30, 2012)

That reminds me, I still have firky's Neverwhere which I really should return ...


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Read Neil Gaiman if you've not done so already.


Done and dusted I'm afraid.


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## urbanspaceman (Aug 30, 2012)

A Deepness in the Sky - Vernor Vinge
Across Realtime - Vernor Vinge
Blindsight - Peter Watts
Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

urbanspaceman said:


> Snow Crash - Neal Stephenson


Read that a couple of weeks ago, really enjoyed it. Anathem's still my favourite of his though. I liked Cryptonomicon a lot too, but was left very unsatisfied my its lack of ending.

Has anyone read his Baroque Cycle stuff?  Any good?


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## fractionMan (Aug 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Has anyone read his Baroque Cycle stuff? Any good?


 
I gave up on them.  Too much like hard work imo.


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Read that a couple of weeks ago, really enjoyed it. Anathem's still my favourite of his though. I liked Cryptonomicon a lot too, but was left very unsatisfied my its lack of ending.
> 
> Has anyone read his Baroque Cycle stuff? Any good?


Yes, they were quite good as well.


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I gave up on them. Too much like hard work imo.


Have you read any of his other stuff?  His books generally seem quite heavy to get in to (Anathem & Cryptonominominominomicom more so than Snow Crash IMO), but are worth the effort in the end (IMO again).  It'd be helpful to know if you've managed to persevere with those but found the BC too much, or whether maybe they're just par for course with Stephenson.



stuff_it said:


> Yes, they were quite good as well.


Same question to you stuff_it.


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Have you read any of his other stuff? His books generally seem quite heavy to get in to (Anathem & Cryptonominominominomicom more so than Snow Crash IMO), but are worth the effort in the end (IMO again). It'd be helpful to know if you've managed to persevere with those but found the BC too much, or whether maybe they're just par for course with Stephenson.
> 
> 
> Same question to you stuff_it.


Yes, all of them - thus 'they were good as well'.


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## Ax^ (Aug 30, 2012)

suggesting dune would just be silly


Right?


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> suggesting dune would just be silly
> 
> 
> Right?


Yes, very silly. First time I read it I was 8.


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## Ax^ (Aug 30, 2012)

just checking


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## TruXta (Aug 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Yes, very silly. First time I read it I was 8.


 
8? Good lord.


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Yes, all of them - thus 'they were good as well'.


Thanks. Just wanted to see if you'd found them more 'heavy going' than his others, or whether they were par for NS. I'll add them to the list in that case.


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

TruXta said:


> 8? Good lord.


I was already well on to Henilen, Azimov, Arthur C Clarke and Dick by about 8 or 9. What can I say - I had easy access to it from about 7 at a mate of my mum's house.


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## fractionMan (Aug 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Have you read any of his other stuff? His books generally seem quite heavy to get in to (Anathem & Cryptonominominominomicom more so than Snow Crash IMO), but are worth the effort in the end (IMO again). It'd be helpful to know if you've managed to persevere with those but found the BC too much, or whether maybe they're just par for course with Stephenson.
> 
> 
> Same question to you stuff_it.


 
I think I've read all of his other stuff and really enjoyed it, just not the baroque cycle.


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## TruXta (Aug 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> I was already well on to Henilen, Azimov, Arthur C Clarke and Dick by about 8 or 9. What can I say - I had easy access to it from about 7 at a mate of my mum's house.


 
No wonder you turned to drugs


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## Ax^ (Aug 30, 2012)

tbf it might be time to look at another genre as well


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> tbf it might be time to look at another genre as well


Oh come on, I can't possibly read _*all*_ the good scifi. That would be silly.


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## TruXta (Aug 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Oh come on, I can't possibly read _*all*_ the good scifi. That would be silly.


 
I've realised there's a ton of stuff mainly from non-Anglo writers just waiting to be discovered. Can be tricky to source perhaps. The French and Eastern Europeans have loads of scifi. Then you've got comics and graphics novels - again the Francophones have loads of great stuff.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 30, 2012)

Why restrict yourself to scifi though?
(says the man who only seems to be reading scifi at the moment)


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Yes, all of them - thus 'they were good as well'.





fractionMan said:


> I think I've read all of his other stuff and really enjoyed it, just not the baroque cycle.


Hmm.  Split jury.


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Hmm. Split jury.


It's not sci-fi, but I enjoyed them.


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## stuff_it (Aug 30, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I've realised there's a ton of stuff mainly from non-Anglo writers just waiting to be discovered. Can be tricky to source perhaps. The French and Eastern Europeans have loads of scifi. Then you've got comics and graphics novels - again the Francophones have loads of great stuff.


Excellent - recommend some French scifi then. I'm trying to improve my French.


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## Ax^ (Aug 30, 2012)

sorry but i never recommend the french


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## Random (Aug 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Oh come on, I can't possibly read _*all*_ the good scifi. That would be silly.


have you read everything by Roger Zelazny? How about Philip jose Farmer? William Gibson? Stanislaw Lem? Bruce Stirling? Ursula K Le Guin?


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> It's not sci-fi, but I enjoyed them.


Harder to get in to than Anathem or Cryptonomicon?  Or just the usual NS slow build?


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## cesare (Aug 30, 2012)

Sherri Tepper. C.J. Cherryh.


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## TruXta (Aug 30, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Excellent - recommend some French scifi then. I'm trying to improve my French.


 
 Don't know that many authors - have stayed mainly within the _bande dessinées_ (comics). Moebius is essential. Start there. http://www.moebius.fr/


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## captainmission (Aug 30, 2012)

olaf stapledon- star marker in particular is amazing


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## Sir Belchalot (Aug 30, 2012)

Quite liked this one too, written by an old mate's other half:

http://everywherebutnoplace.com/


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## Firky (Aug 30, 2012)

Sir Belchalot said:


> Quite liked this one too, written by an old mate's other half:
> 
> http://everywherebutnoplace.com/


 
That sounds quite good.


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## Firky (Aug 30, 2012)

cesare said:


> That reminds me, I still have firky's Neverwhere which I really should return ...


 
Did you like it?

(He asks, five years later )


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## cesare (Aug 30, 2012)

firky said:


> Did you like it?



I did, yes, thanks for the borrow!


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## Meltingpot (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm no expert on sci-fi but "Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes is one of my favourites.


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

firky said:


> Did you like it?
> 
> (He asks, five years later )


I know you wern't asking me, but...

Great book.  Fucking awful tv version.


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## Firky (Aug 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> I know you wern't asking me, but...
> 
> Great book. Fucking awful tv version.


 
It was made to be a kid's TV show, wasn't it? I have never seen it.


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## cesare (Aug 30, 2012)

firky said:


> (He asks, five years later )



Have I had it that long?


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

firky said:


> It was made to be a kid's TV show, wasn't it? I have never seen it.


Oh was it?

That would make sense to me.  The thing it reminded me of the most was _The Box of Delights_.  Don't know if you remember that?  I *loved* it as a kid, but it's no good for (alleged) grown-ups.


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## Firky (Aug 30, 2012)

Corax said:


> Oh was it?
> 
> That would make sense to me. The thing it reminded me of the most was _The Box of Delights_. Don't know if you remember that? I *loved* it as a kid, but it's no good for (alleged) grown-ups.


 
Was that the one which had quite sinister music and when the music stopped the box opened up?


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

firky said:


> Was that the one which had quite sinister music and when the music stopped the box opened up?


Maybe. It was definitely quite dark. Someone turned into a rat at some point too. My memories of it are a bit vague tbh, other than knowing I liked it. It was a Christmas special serial for children on BBC I think, and IIRC it was the year before/after _Children of Green Knowle_, which I loved too.

ETA...

Wiki:
The central character is Kay Harker who, on returning from boarding school, finds himself mixed up in a battle to possess a magical box, which allows the owner to go small (shrink) and go swift (fly), experience magical wonders contained within the box and go into the past.
The owner of the box is an old Punch and Judy man called Cole Hawlings, whom Kay meets at a railway station. They develop an instant rapport, and this leads Cole to confide that he is being chased by a man called Abner Brown and his gang. For safety, Cole entrusts the box to Kay, who then goes on to have many adventures.


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## Firky (Aug 30, 2012)

I remember something like it but I thought it was called Pandora's Box.


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## Corax (Aug 30, 2012)

firky said:


> I remember something like it but I thought it was called Pandora's Box.


Here ya go...



Still love that music.


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## Firky (Aug 30, 2012)

It's not what I was thinking of but now I've seen that I am reminded of it. Forgot all about it


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## mentalchik (Aug 30, 2012)

Neal Asher
Sheri S Tepper
The Sparrow - Maria Doria Russel
The Risen Empire - Scott Westerfeld
Michael Marshall Smith - Spares, One of Us, Only Forward
.........


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## a_chap (Aug 30, 2012)

no-no said:


> How about these two?
> 
> Theodore Sturgeon - More Than Human
> Robert Silverberg - Dying Inside


 
Saddened there aren't more Bob Silverberg recommendations.

Dying Inside is *brilliant*. But so is Hawksbill Station, Thorns and Nightwings.


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## andy2002 (Aug 30, 2012)

Have you read anything by Eric Brown? I loved Kings of Eternity.


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## frogwoman (Aug 30, 2012)

blue remembered earth is pretty solid new alistair reynolds and theres also  new atrocity archives fiction from stross. you will alsodo no wrong with this years edition of the long running anthology 'mammoth book of sci fi


/dot


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## fractionMan (Aug 30, 2012)

Light - john harrison is excellent

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Light-GOLLA...4035/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346358356&sr=8-1

In fact I've just discovered it's part of a trilogy and am trying to order the next book, nova swing.  Seems it's only been printed in the states though.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 30, 2012)

Marge Piercy's Woman On The Edge Of Time is a great one


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## ericjarvis (Aug 30, 2012)

Random said:


> John Brunner; his masterwork is Stand on Zanzibar, but basically everything is good. Didn't see you mention jack Vance, but assume he was part of your big name reading back in the day.


 
Had lunch with him at an sf convention many years ago. He was a charmy and witty guy, but a terrible lech. So far I haven't read anything of his that was less than excellent.


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## Random (Aug 31, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> Had lunch with him at an sf convention many years ago. He was a charmy and witty guy, but a terrible lech. So far I haven't read anything of his that was less than excellent.


I'm trying to remember how women are depicted in his books now. All I remember is that there's a queen bitch in Stand on Zanzibar, and that's it.


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## ericjarvis (Aug 31, 2012)

Random said:


> I'm trying to remember how women are depicted in his books now. All I remember is that there's a queen bitch in Stand on Zanzibar, and that's it.


 
He doesn't do too badly in the books for the time. More an admirer and appreciator of women type of lecher than the creepy asshole type.


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## TruXta (Aug 31, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Light - john harrison is excellent
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Light-GOLLA...4035/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346358356&sr=8-1
> 
> In fact I've just discovered it's part of a trilogy and am trying to order the next book, nova swing. Seems it's only been printed in the states though.


 
Got Nova Swing in a Waterstones in London, so shouldn't be a problem. Great book.


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## Wilf (Aug 31, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Read Neil Gaiman if you've not done so already.


 American Gods?


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## TruXta (Aug 31, 2012)

Oh has anyone mentioned Tim Powers? More in the fantasy/alternate history thing. Only read The Anubis Gates, which is very good.


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## Wilf (Aug 31, 2012)

Ax^ said:


> suggesting dune would just be silly
> 
> 
> Right?


 No, not at all. First couple of books in the Dune series are great. Gets daft after that.  His (Frank Herbert) son revived the series after his death - they _were_ silly.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 31, 2012)

Wilf said:


> No, not at all. First couple of books in the Dune series are great. Gets daft after that. His (Frank Herbert) son revived the series after his death - they _were_ silly.


 
Not at all, the last 3 are great.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 31, 2012)

three. the first three are great. Dune, Dune Messiah and Cildren of

Also God-Epmporer of Dune.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 31, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> M. John Harrison's _Light _is also good.


 I liked his early books (god, so long since I read them, can't remember the titles... A storm of Wings?). Proper grown up fantasy/SF. He also did a great book about rock climbing (Climbers).


----------



## TruXta (Aug 31, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> three. the first three are great. Dune, Dune Messiah and Cildren of
> 
> Also God-Epmporer of Dune.


 
Cock and balls.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 31, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Not at all, the last 3 are great.


 Matter of taste I suppose. Got a bit too esoteric for me - I'm a simple story kinda guy!   Though... I love Gene Wolfe too. Sophisiticated characters along with the unrelaible narrator thing and sometimes just not knowing the fuck you are.  For some reason I didn't get on with a couple of his books (Soldier in the Mist - can't remember why, it was a while ago). Otherwise he's just about my favourite writer.  Just good quality writing, regardless of genre.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 31, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Cock and balls.


 Almost a very bad Will Self book.


----------



## Random (Aug 31, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Matter of taste I suppose. Got a bit too esoteric for me - I'm a simple story kinda guy!   Though... I love Gene Wolfe too. Sophisiticated characters along with the unrelaible narrator thing and sometimes just not knowing the fuck you are.  For some reason I didn't get on with a couple of his books (Soldier in the Mist - can't remember why, it was a while ago). Otherwise he's just about my favourite writer.  Just good quality writing, regardless of genre.


Ridiculous, Soldier in the Mist is one of his very best. This is the Silent Country! Rope Makers! To Arms!


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 31, 2012)

Anyone mentioned Michael Moorcock yet? Or does he swing too much to the fantasy side of things?

Also the_ Rakehells of Heaven_ by John Boyd, which I see from a quick google qualifies as a "forgotten book", but which made an impression on me when I was a young sci-fi freak.

The same was true of _Brontomek, _by Michael G. Coney.

Neither of those may be readily available, but if they come up in your local Oxfam they're definitely worth a look.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 31, 2012)

Random said:


> Ridiculous, Soldier in the Mist is one of his very best. This is the Silent Country! Rope Makers! To Arms!


 
Tis good, but I felt like I'd gotten a helluva lot more out of it if my ancient history skeels had been better.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 1, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> I don't know if it's available any more, but Sheckley's _The Status Society _is one that has stuck in my mind since I read it. In fact, I should probably read it again.
> 
> F.


 
Lo and behold Sheckley's _The Status Civilization _(not "society" as I misremembered it) is available as a free download, along with many other public domain SF works:

http://www.feedbooks.com/book/874/the-status-civilization

There's a lot of free stuff on that site, but unfortunately a lot of it looks like deservedly forgotten dross. There might be other hidden gems in there, if you care to look, though.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2012)

Corax said:


> Harder to get in to than Anathem or Cryptonomicon? Or just the usual NS slow build?


There's only one way to find out.


----------



## Kuso (Sep 2, 2012)

machine cat said:


> Alistair Reynolds?


 
seconded, been really getting into his stuff lately.  the revelation space series is amazing, though I've still to read revelation space itself  absolution gap was the first book I've read in ages that I got REALLY into.

'terminal world', 'house of suns' and particularly 'century rain' are also ace with some very interesting concepts


----------



## machine cat (Sep 2, 2012)

Kuso said:


> seconded, been really getting into his stuff lately.  the revelation space series is amazing, though I've still to read revelation space itself  absolution gap was the first book I've read in ages that I got REALLY into.
> 
> 'terminal world', 'house of suns' and particularly 'century rain' are also ace with some very interesting concepts


Chasm City is his best imo. Prefect isn't bad either.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 3, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> Paul McAuley is the obvious name missing from your original list.


 
Ive read a few of his. I think the "Quiet War" books are very good- "The Quiet War" and the follow up "Gardens of the Sun".

The are Space Opera that mixes politics and information technology. Interesting Left wing sci fi.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 3, 2012)

Kim Stanley Robinson Mars Trilogy. Ive only read the first one but I got into it so I will read rest when I have time. Its more than the colonisation of Mars its also about Utopian green politics vs corporations. Kim did a lot of research to find out possible ways to make Mars habitable so its got plenty of hard science as well.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 3, 2012)

Sir Belchalot said:


> Quite liked this one too, written by an old mate's other half:
> 
> http://everywherebutnoplace.com/


Bought it but it won't download off Amazon. Can't be arsed trying to sort it tonight. *sigh*



Kuso said:


> seconded, been really getting into his stuff lately. the revelation space series is amazing, though I've still to read revelation space itself  absolution gap was the first book I've read in ages that I got REALLY into.
> 
> 'terminal world', 'house of suns' and particularly 'century rain' are also ace with some very interesting concepts


Unfortunately I've already read all his books.


----------



## Kuso (Sep 3, 2012)

enjoyed this fairly recently too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War 

wasn't too keen on the sequels though


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 3, 2012)

U said kindle is getting expensive. I pick up old second hand sci fi at my second hand bookshop in Brixton "Bookmongers". Worth checking out Oxfam shops and second hand shops for old sci fi.

Ive picked up some really good stuff that is out of print. I love the art work on old sci fi books.

If ur around Brixton check out Bookmongers in Coldharbour lane for sci fi. A good selection.

Old sci fi

Philip Jose Farmer -- "Maker of Universes"- psychedelic and wacky. A great read.

Terry Greenhough- "Wandering Worlds"- why is this forgotten. Great story.

Fred Saberhagen-- "Berserker"-- collection of short stories. Linked by war in space with ancient automated spacecraft from a forgotten war- the Berserkers. They are destroying humanity for reasons no longer known. Bleak and brutal with some black humour. Good as its not about heroics.

Samuel R Delany- an acquired taste but unusual for his time when a lot of US sci fi was a bit on the right. Samuel is a Black , Gay New Yorker. Very much a child of the 60s. Still around but I think more into poetry now.

Ive read "The Fall of the Towers" trilogy by him . A post apocalypse society starts a futile and destructive war. Why? I do not think its coincidence it was written during the Vietnam and Cold War.

"Capellas Golden Eyes"- Christopher Evans. Weird and wonderful story of humans and aliens living symbiotically with each other.

Poul Anderson-- "The High Castle"-- Aliens invade England in medieval times. Whoops they get beaten by men with swords who steal there spacecraft to go on a "crusade" to the stars. Absolutely barking. A great read.

I like these old 60s and 70s sci fi. They are of there time but also relevant know. I notice ideas of theres crop up in new sci fi.


----------



## ericjarvis (Sep 3, 2012)

Other relatively "neglected" veterans include Ian Watson and Edmund Cooper. The latter sometimes drifting too close to trashy pulp, and the former sometimes erring in the other direction, but both always worth reading.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 3, 2012)

Just checked and a lot of these old sci fi authors have there own websites and also some are available as E books even if they are out of print.


----------



## Kuso (Sep 3, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> U said kindle is getting expensive. I pick up old second hand sci fi at my second hand bookshop in Brixton "Bookmongers". Worth checking out Oxfam shops and second hand shops for old sci fi.



It really bugs me that most 2nd hand bookshops/ charity shops lump all their sci-fi into a sci-fi/ fantasy section


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 4, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> U said kindle is getting expensive. I pick up old second hand sci fi at my second hand bookshop in Brixton "Bookmongers". Worth checking out Oxfam shops and second hand shops for old sci fi.
> 
> Ive picked up some really good stuff that is out of print. I love the art work on old sci fi books.
> 
> ...


I've rinsed out the local charity shops round here. Proper rinsed them. They are lying fallow for a few months as is necessary from time to time.


----------



## Random (Sep 4, 2012)

ericjarvis said:


> Other relatively "neglected" veterans include Ian Watson and Edmund Cooper. The latter sometimes drifting too close to trashy pulp, and the former sometimes erring in the other direction, but both always worth reading.


I think the opposite. Watson's Inquisitor Warhammer 40k books are the best he's done. otherwise he's a bit self-indulgent


----------



## Random (Sep 4, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> Samuel R Delany- an acquired taste but unusual for his time when a lot of US sci fi was a bit on the right. Samuel is a Black , Gay New Yorker. Very much a child of the 60s. Still around but I think more into poetry now.


 He's a bit NAMBLA, isn't he?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2012)

Nobody has mentioned David Brins Uplift saga yet, possibly because the execution isn't great but there are good idea and its tightly plotted.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 4, 2012)

Random said:


> He's a bit NAMBLA, isn't he?


He wrote some very rude books about picking up young men in New York. My friend has Mad Man and it's very eye-opening. Don't read if you don't want to know about a tramp's foreskin filled with pebbles of dried smegma. 
Hogg is supposed to even more horrible.


----------



## Random (Sep 4, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> He wrote some very rude books about picking up young men in New York. My friend has Mad Man and it's very eye-opening. Don't read if you don't want to know about a tramp's foreskin filled with pebbles of dried smegma.
> Hogg is supposed to even more horrible.


I'm talking about the sex with young teenagers parts in other books. Not read anything by SRD myself though.


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2012)

Just spotted one on my floor worth reading - Darwin's Radio by Greg Bear.

It somehow felt a lot more 'trashy' than the other (later) stuff of his I've read*, but the premise is brilliant, and it's well worth reading. I've got the sequel (Darwin's Children) in my 'to read' pile.

*Eon, Eternity, Queen of Angels - all of which I highly recommend. Maybe some others I've forgotten I've read - titles rarely stick with me, just plots.


And have we established if you've read Reynolds yet? If you haven't then ignore everything else on this thread other than Michael Marshall Smith (which is a bit 'different'...). Reynolds is far and away the best sci-fi author in the wurld eva.


----------



## TruXta (Sep 4, 2012)

Gramsci said:


> Kim Stanley Robinson Mars Trilogy. Ive only read the first one but I got into it so I will read rest when I have time. Its more than the colonisation of Mars its also about Utopian green politics vs corporations. Kim did a lot of research to find out possible ways to make Mars habitable so its got plenty of hard science as well.


 
Read the first. Was fucking bored by the end of it. Beatifully researched, but oh my words the writing is so insanely turgid in places that I hadn't the will to go on to Blue/Green Mars.


----------



## TruXta (Sep 4, 2012)

Random said:


> I'm talking about the sex with young teenagers parts in other books. Not read anything by SRD myself though.


 
Read Dhalgren. It's quite insane, but you come out the other end feeling it was worth it after all.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2012)

I've said similar on another sci fi thread 'Uninspiring Sterility, thy name is Kim Stanley Robinson. I am a scientist. I like sandwiches. Cheese and ham. Cheese is good' and so on

can't fault his knowledge, but like asimov and clarke, he doesn't have the soul. iyswim.

OP if you've never come across brilliant kids sci fi author Nicolas Fisk then you should rectify this. Trillions, Oddiputs and many more. His bio is also worth the money.


----------



## TruXta (Sep 4, 2012)

But both Asimov and Clarke tried at least. KSR read like a lab report gone really really bad.


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I've said similar on another sci fi thread 'Uninspiring Sterility, thy name is Kim Stanley Robinson. I am a scientist. I like sandwiches. Cheese and ham. Cheese is good' and so on
> 
> *can't fault his knowledge*,


Damn straight.  Cheese *is* good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 4, 2012)

I was entirely disgusted when the peril in red mars turned out to be scurvy cos the pills had been exposed to cosmic rays or whatever. Yeah. Wheres the martian blood plagues and secret nazi bases on olympos mons? nowhere!


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2012)

I think I borrowed Red Mars from the library at some point, read the first 50ish pages, got bored and read something else.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 4, 2012)

Random said:


> He's a bit NAMBLA, isn't he?


 
Had to google that. Well at that time I think there was in the counter culture some support for "Man/Boy love" ideas. Does not mean Delaney was himself did it.

A lot of mixed up stuff went on in 60s. It was time of experiment. 

Hogg  and Mad Men sounds interesting. Did not know them. So will check them out. Dhalgren is still in print.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 4, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Read the first. Was fucking bored by the end of it. Beatifully researched, but oh my words the writing is so insanely turgid in places that I hadn't the will to go on to Blue/Green Mars.


 
Bit harsh. The changing of Mars to make it habitable is interesting. It is not gung ho sci fi. I also got interested in the politics of it as well. I also found it readable. But Im not that good at reading fiction.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 4, 2012)

Corax said:


> And have we established if you've read Reynolds yet?


Yes, I have read everything of his to date. I even have a fair few of them on actual paper.


----------



## ericjarvis (Sep 4, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Read Dhalgren. It's quite insane, but you come out the other end feeling it was worth it after all.


 
IMO one of the GREAT sf books. Stars In My Pockets Like Grains Of Sand is almost as good.


----------



## Corax (Sep 4, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Yes, I have read everything of his to date. I even have a fair few of them on actual paper.


Me too.  Wish he'd write faster.

Greg Bear?  The stuff of his like Queen of Angels, Eon & Eternity is the closest I've found to Reynolds.

I was going to put "the later stuff of his", but I've just seen that Darwin's Radio (which I assumed was early) was written later than Eon & Eternity.  Odd, as the latter seemed to me to have a better developed writing style.


----------



## kropotkin (Sep 5, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I was entirely disgusted when the peril in red mars turned out to be scurvy cos the pills had been exposed to cosmic rays or whatever. Yeah. Wheres the martian blood plagues and secret nazi bases on olympos mons? nowhere!


Get to fuck

The Mars trilogy is brilliant. You should stick to fantasy


----------



## TruXta (Sep 5, 2012)

kropotkin said:


> Get to fuck
> 
> The Mars trilogy is brilliant. You should stick to fantasy


 
It's good science, but decidedly pedestrian as a piece of literature.


----------



## no-no (Sep 6, 2012)

I never finished red mars either, lost momentum, got bored.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 6, 2012)

no-no said:


> I never finished red mars either, lost momentum, got bored.


I had to force myself to read all of it.



Sir Belchalot said:


> Quite liked this one too, written by an old mate's other half:
> 
> http://everywherebutnoplace.com/


Yes, I like this.


----------



## ericjarvis (Sep 6, 2012)

Another name that hasn't been mentioned. Linda Nagata. Does better nanotech than pretty much anyone else.​


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## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2012)

ooh, in the vein of female sf check out Octavia Butler 'Parable of the Sower' v. good


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Sep 7, 2012)

Corax said:


> Read that a couple of weeks ago, really enjoyed it. Anathem's still my favourite of his though. I liked Cryptonomicon a lot too, but was left very unsatisfied my its lack of ending.
> 
> Has anyone read his Baroque Cycle stuff? Any good?


I really enjoyed the baroque cycle, it's what got me to read cryptonomicon, I liked how a lot of the family names came back in both.


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 11, 2012)

Has anyone recommended Adam Roberts yet? I'm currently reading *New Model Army* by him which is great, but I've also enjoyed *On*, *Salt* and *Yellow Blue Tibia*.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 11, 2012)

Me! I have ready exactly the three you mentioned after New Model Army. I'm reading Stone next.


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 11, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> Me! I have ready exactly the three you mentioned after New Model Army. I'm reading Stone next.


 
His most recent couple of books look interesting too – especially the one where people feed by taking in nutrients from light through their hair. He's got some mad ideas.


----------



## Sir Belchalot (Oct 25, 2012)

Everywhere But No Place free on Kindle atm if anyone wants to give it a go:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005LHKV9M?tag=kiq-free-e-21


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 17, 2014)

I've just got hold of a load of ebooks by James P Hogan, British author who wrote hard sci-fi. I'd not heard of him before but I'm readng the first of the 'Giants novels' and it's great so far.


----------



## maya (Feb 17, 2014)

Most of my favourites have been mentioned already! 

(BTW, a tip- If you've got access to a library with a decent young adults section, I've discovered many dedicated librarians do an excellent job of picking/profiling good science fiction for teens... Some of it is actually good!  )

Adam Roberts is good- I'm intrigued by his reworking of Jules Verne's classic 20.000 Leagues..., called "A Trillion Miles Under The Sea", with illustrations and everything- looks promising.

And Christopher Priest's classic "A Dream Of Wessex" will be reissued this year...

J.G. Ballard's 'Collected Short Stories' 1 & 2, pocket book edition, will keep you amused for years to come... (The pocket books are a bit easier to read on the bus than the massive brick-sized hardback tome  )

Always rated Philip K. Dick, had a really intense period in my early twenties where I read everything of his but in retrospect his misogyny can get a bit tiresome... "The Three Stigmata Of Palmer Eldritch" and "Ubik" are towering works though, but more 'soft' SF and not much science...


----------



## strung out (Feb 17, 2014)

maya said:


> Adam Roberts is good- I'm intrigued by his reworking of Jules Verne's classic 20.000 Leagues..., called "A Trillion Miles Under The Sea", with illustrations and everything- looks promising.


This is great, already a contender for my book of the year - though it's less a reworking and more a homage. Its tone and style is very Verne-esque, but there's much more to it than just that, and the illustrations are gorgeous.


----------



## maya (Feb 17, 2014)

strung out said:


> This is great, already a contender for my book of the year - though it's less a reworking and more a homage. Its tone and style is very Verne-esque, but there's much more to it than just that, and the illustrations are gorgeous.


Sounds great, I really look forward to reading it! 

(Sometimes you stumble across gems like that and every time I find new and interesting authors/books it gives me hope for the future... For some years at the start of the millennium things looked really grim and it was like nothing happened- Now so much is happening all at once!)


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 17, 2014)

I read a few of Adam Roberts's novels (Salt, Stone & Gradsil) but thought they were a bit depressing. Has he cheered up a bit in his later stuff?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 17, 2014)

not really. He seems to keep his humour for the LOTR/Hobbit/ETC spoofs he writes under a psuedonym


----------



## strung out (Feb 17, 2014)

Scaggs said:


> I read a few of Adam Roberts's novels (Salt, Stone & Gradsil) but thought they were a bit depressing. Has he cheered up a bit in his later stuff?


I've mostly only read his newer stuff, but he's one of my favourite authors around at the moment.

Jack Glass and Yellow Blue Tibia are both outstanding (as is Twenty Trillion Leagues) - New Model Army and By Light Alone are pretty good too.

Yellow Blue Tibia is also one of the funniest books I've read in the last couple of years.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 17, 2014)

Swiftly and Land of the Headless are also strong imo


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 17, 2014)

Scaggs said:


> I read a few of Adam Roberts's novels (Salt, Stone & Gradsil) but thought they were a bit depressing. Has he cheered up a bit in his later stuff?


The best writers are depressing


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm slavishly reading his books in chronological order, so Polystom is up next for me.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 17, 2014)

Polystom is a wonderful story, such a creative world and just really matter of fact way of writing about the totally fantastical. 

I would also strongly reccomend Yellow Blue Tibia and On to anyone want some good Roberts. 

Just finished The Bookman Histories by Lavie Tidhar which is basically the League of Extrordinary Gentlemen done right. 

Also Dream London by Tony Ballantyne great lysergic fantasy rather than scifi but close enough for me to mention here...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 17, 2014)

Also if you like singularity/post-singularity stuff then read Raju Hanniemeni's Quantumn Thief sequence


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 17, 2014)

I am really enjoying Hugh Howey's Wool, despite, or even because of it being _heavily_ influenced by Fallout 3.


----------



## TruXta (Feb 17, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I am really enjoying Hugh Howey's Wool, despite, or even because of it being _heavily_ influenced by Fallout 3.


You overcame the slow start then?


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 17, 2014)

TruXta said:


> You overcame the slow start then?


Yep, will probably finish it tonight


----------



## Scaggs (Feb 17, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I am really enjoying Hugh Howey's Wool, despite, or even because of it being _heavily_ influenced by Fallout 3.


I couldn't put the books down. I liked them so much I read his other stuff, Molly Fyde and others, but they were a let down.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 17, 2014)

Molly Fyde is aimed at a different audience....


----------



## steveo87 (Feb 17, 2014)

Just out of curiosity, but would it be hugely self-centered to put my OWN story (well three chapters of it) into the pile?


----------



## weltweit (Feb 17, 2014)

Good thread. Bookmarking so I can find it again.
"Science fiction"


----------



## Awesome Wells (Feb 17, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Also if you like singularity/post-singularity stuff then read Raju Hanniemeni's Quantumn Thief sequence


And if you can work out what the fuck's going on...you might just put Hawking out of a job!


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 17, 2014)

Have been enjoying Margaret Atwoods follow ons to Oryn and Crake: 'Time of The Flood' and 'Madaddams'


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 17, 2014)

Year!


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 17, 2014)

my mistake.

Also I can recommend 'Brasyl' by Ian McCdonald

set in three interweaving brazillian time periods. Good stuff.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 17, 2014)

Desolation Road as well by McDonald it's KSR but messier and more human


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I am really enjoying Hugh Howey's Wool, despite, or even because of it being _heavily_ influenced by Fallout 3.




little heavy on the silo-politicking imo, especially as its not-very-deep but theres lots of it. Overall a page turner tho


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

Heavy? Not really.
That's what it's about!


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

heavy as in overly doing it, and not in unexpected or interesting ways. Strength of characters pulls that imo.



Spoiler: stuff



and the holocaust being caused by the NWO? hmmm.....


----------



## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Spoilers much?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

_published to kindle_. Thats all I'm saying.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks for the spoiler, dotty


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> _published to kindle_. Thats all I'm saying.


That's just snobbery


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

yes. especially as despite my crit I read the bastard in two sittings and will be seeking the sequels. The feel for character is what makes it for me, and the taut plotting. The world building isn't so great. For instance, you have runners who spend most of theirtime shuttling between levels with loads- where is their argot, handslang, regalia? Where are the secret cults, the patina of a strange silo-bound society? It's just not there


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

Spoiler: stuff



and the ritual element of taking the walk doesn't cover it. I'm also not convinced you could gull a society for that long with such a ritual.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

I'm haven't finished it yet, and other people may want to read it too, but you've gone and added more spoilers instead of removing the original one


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm haven't finished it yet, and other people may want to read it too, but you've gone and added more spoilers instead of removing the original one




duly edited. I forget that not everyone mainlines sci fi like its heroin.


----------



## Utopia (Feb 18, 2014)

I really liked Vurt by Jeff Noon

"Take a trip in a stranger's head. Along rainshot streets with the stash riders, a posse of hip malcontents, hooked on the most powerful drug you can imagine . . . Vurt feathers . . . But as the Game Cat says, Be careful, be very careful. This ride is not for the weak . . . Scribble isn't listening. He has to find his lost love. A journey towards the ultimate, perhaps even mythical, Vurt Feather . . . Curious Yellow."


----------



## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Just finished M. John Harrison's _The Centauri Device_. It's from the mid 70s and the politics of the day shine through clearly. A bit too clearly perhaps. The writing is beatiful as always but he plays the ideological angle much too heavy-handedly. Would still recommend it for genre fans.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> yes. especially as despite my crit I read the bastard in two sittings and will be seeking the sequels. The feel for character is what makes it for me, and the taut plotting. The world building isn't so great. For instance, you have runners who spend most of theirtime shuttling between levels with loads- where is their argot, handslang, regalia? Where are the secret cults, the patina of a strange silo-bound society? It's just not there





Spoiler



One minor thing that bothers me so far is that people in different silos speak the same. After how many hundred years, they would sound different to each other and perhaps even have a differing vocab for informal things


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

Utopia said:


> I really liked Vurt by Jeff Noon
> 
> "Take a trip in a stranger's head. Along rainshot streets with the stash riders, a posse of hip malcontents, hooked on the most powerful drug you can imagine . . . Vurt feathers . . . But as the Game Cat says, Be careful, be very careful. This ride is not for the weak . . . Scribble isn't listening. He has to find his lost love. A journey towards the ultimate, perhaps even mythical, Vurt Feather . . . Curious Yellow."



if thats your bag you might enjoy Jonathen Lethams 'Amnesia Moon'


----------



## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> One minor thing that bothers me so far is that people in different silos speak the same. After how many hundred years, they would sound different to each other and perhaps even have a differing vocab for informal things


I'm guessing the writer thought that doing that would make it less accessible and appealing to the great unwashed.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> One minor thing that bothers me so far is that people in different silos speak the same. After how many hundred years, they would sound different to each other and perhaps even have a differing vocab for informal things





Spoiler: stuff



thats what I mean with the sociological angle. Drift not only in language but customs. And shoving a load of people into silos and declaring year zero doesn't address existing/passed down religious or ideological persuasions. Nor does it adress what strange and new forms the second and third generations might take with limited info, whispered stories of god or whatever.  It's a very sterile look at a society and gets away with it precisely because it uses strong fp narrative viewpoints


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> thats what I mean with the sociological angle. Drift not only in language but customs. And shoving a load of people into silos and declaring year zero doesn't address existing/passed down religious or ideological persuasions. Nor does it adress what strange and new forms the second and third generations might take with limited info, whispered stories of god or whatever.  It's a very sterile look at a society and gets away with it precisely because it uses strong fp narrative viewpoints





Spoiler



The next two books get into that in a bit more detail. esp. the religious angle.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

Dotty! Spoiler it!


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Dotty! Spoiler it!


That wasn't really a spoiler tho.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> thats what I mean with the sociological angle. Drift not only in language but customs. And shoving a load of people into silos and declaring year zero doesn't address existing/passed down religious or ideological persuasions. Nor does it adress what strange and new forms the second and third generations might take with limited info, whispered stories of god or whatever.  It's a very sterile look at a society and gets away with it precisely because it uses strong fp narrative viewpoints





Spoiler



I guess it could be argued that The Order has everything in control, even the language as customs used, but it doesn't wash. Counter-culture arises in even the most oppressive societies.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

on a completely unrelated note I would like to see something like Vladmir Propp's trope-by-trope classification of sci fi. It was as a field initially called scientific romance (err) so clearly has roots. Someone who isn't me, deal with this task


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## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> That wasn't really a spoiler tho.





Spoiler



mentioning the fact that there is more than one silo is a massive spoiler
And I still clearly haven't got to the bit where Year Zero is mentioned. I'm still in the dark about why they are there! I better go finish it now!


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## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it could be argued that The Order has everything in control, even the language as customs used, but it doesn't wash. Counter-culture arises in even the most oppressive societies.





well precisely. Even if its a group of like minded dissidents around an illegal still, you've already got a group of people saying 'non'


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> mentioning the fact that there is more than one silo is a massive spoiler


Fair enough.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

spoilered for the unread. Honestly though, its one of the runaway success stories from genre fiction of the last two years! Librarian, read thyself.


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

The movie rights have been sold to 20th C Fox, so expect this to hit the big screen in a couple of years.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

set production bill will be massively cheap cos everyones stuck in a silo


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

True that.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

Have either of you played Fallout 3? Howey certainly has!


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

No.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> No.










Even minor game props like filing cabinets blocking doors are replicated in the book. Characters are always looting empty rooms for essential machine parts n shit. It's well video gamey.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 18, 2014)

I played Fallout 1 but my man kept dying so I went back to mario 2 on my snes emulator. Take that, mushroom headed thing.


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Even minor game props like filing cabinets blocking doors are replicated in the book. Characters are always looting empty rooms for essential machine parts n shit. It's well video gamey.


I'm gonna come out and say that I don't believe Fallout was the first to use those tropes/images.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> I'm gonna come out and say that I don't believe Fallout was the first to use those tropes/images.


For sure, but it's still striking. So many similarities....


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

BTW, he says in a Reddit AMA session that he did play the Fallout games. 





> I did, especially the originals. I didn't put the connection together until someone from the BBC brought it up. I'm sure they influenced me.


http://www.reddit.com/r/iama/comments/1a7jxd/


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## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> BTW, he says in a Reddit AMA session that he did play the Fallout games.
> http://www.reddit.com/r/iama/comments/1a7jxd/


Aaah! Reddit! I can't read that site. But glad I'm not the only one to notice


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## Orang Utan (Feb 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> well precisely. Even if its a group of like minded dissidents around an illegal still, you've already got a group of people saying 'non'


Mind you, people can be controlled quite easily in oppressive conditions:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-stories-un-brainwashed?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2


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## Fez909 (Feb 18, 2014)

Utopia said:


> I really liked Vurt by Jeff Noon
> 
> "Take a trip in a stranger's head. Along rainshot streets with the stash riders, a posse of hip malcontents, hooked on the most powerful drug you can imagine . . . Vurt feathers . . . But as the Game Cat says, Be careful, be very careful. This ride is not for the weak . . . Scribble isn't listening. He has to find his lost love. A journey towards the ultimate, perhaps even mythical, Vurt Feather . . . Curious Yellow."


The sequel is good, too. Pollen.

I've got his Nymphomation here as well but haven't read it yet.


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## Wilf (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Just finished M. John Harrison's _The Centauri Device_. It's from the mid 70s and the politics of the day shine through clearly. A bit too clearly perhaps. The writing is beatiful as always but he plays the ideological angle much too heavy-handedly. Would still recommend it for genre fans.


 Read that years ago - it's the one with the stomach thing isn't it?  Preferred the fantasy novels he wrote in the next few years, storm of wings, the pastel city et al, but it was good.


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

Wilf said:


> Read that years ago - it's the one with the stomach thing isn't it?  Preferred the fantasy novels he wrote in the next few years, storm of wings, the pastel city et al, but it was good.


The very same. I've not read his Viriconium novels yet, I hear they're good.


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## strung out (Feb 18, 2014)

Have you read Light by M John Harrison? Absolutely bonkers, but brilliant.

I've not read the Wool trilogy - Howey seems like a bit of a dick, and I'm untrusting of most self published stuff, even if this is supposedly one of the few half decent ones.


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

strung out said:


> Have you read Light by M John Harrison? Absolutely bonkers, but brilliant.
> 
> I've not read the Wool trilogy - Howey seems like a bit of a dick, and I'm untrusting of most self published stuff, even if this is supposedly one of the few half decent ones.


Yeah, I've got all three books. Brilliant stuff. Howey's quite light in some ways as noted above, but he's well above average in terms of pacing and characterisation.


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## maya (Feb 18, 2014)

Some pretty scathing reviews of 'Wool' on Am*zon, pointing out obvious blunders in the science/plausability department:




Spoiler



Good science fiction at its heart is an examination of the human condition via the device of placing characters outside the world as we know it. This is not good sci-fi. Of course in any novel we are asked to suspend belief but still if you are going to create a new world, you need to define it and maintain some kind of logic within the parameters you have set. So we have a technologically advanced society who have built and can maintain massive power plant, hydroponic farms and advanced computers but don't have elevators and only primitive radio communication. A society that has been living in a hole in the ground for two centuries would be suffering physically from a lack of light and given they create air lock for the purpose of an absurd sanction why not build above ground?





Spoiler



Our heroine, having cheated death to cross the toxic wasteland of the earth's surface, arrives at an abandoned silo and manages to break in. She sluices the toxins from her suit with the festering contents of a saucepan found in a canteen. Decaying bodies are everywhere, giving rise to the impression that whatever disaster overtook the occupants of the silo, it was relatively recent.

But later Juliette finds a survivor and we learn he has lived alone for three decades. Unfortunately, the author didn't seem to have grasped that neither bodies nor the contents of saucepans don't actually decay in an oxygenated temperate environment for periods spanning multiples of decades.

Later still, Juliette finds more survivors, this time a group of children (whose origins are not explained), who have a surprising grasp of language considering there are zero opportunities to converse.

Then there is the diving episode to rewire a pump hundreds of metres under water, that required our heroine to possess superhuman attributes of endurance.

These annoying contradictions in detail and accompanying casual flaunting of human physiological constraints are too frequent and too glaring for the reader to easily gloss over. Plausibility 1/10





Spoiler



*Not thought through and badly written*, 20 July 2013

By

*Kublai Dom* - See all my reviews

*This review is from: Wool (Wool Trilogy 1) (Paperback)*

The first part was brilliant - a great idea, and plotted well, I was really impressed. So I was looking forward to reading on, and disappointed to find that all the other sections were badly written rubbish.

This book is an example of the downside to e-publishing. Hugh Howey wrote a great short story with a clever twist, which got peoples' interest. He then published each subsequent section on Amazon, piece by piece, and managed to unfairly dominate the charts in this way, by spreading the book thin. Clever marketing. But the e-publishing system basically allowed a terrible book to achieve success. No publisher would have originally published this novel in its full form.

It is badly written, full of inane, repetitive conversations, and navel gazing identically minded, poorly realised characters. The pace is tedious, the plotting is poor.

After the success of part one, you then get a badly written and tediously slow tour of the silo in part two. Following this is basically a detective story in part three where Juliet pieces together the mystery of the cleaning and the visor and the IT department. But the author has already revealed this mystery to the readers in part one! I mean! Come on! Howey clearly doesn't get the basics of story telling.

I liked the basic idea of 'Wool' so skimmed through the book extremely quickly to see what happened. But there was no way I was going to take the time to read through this badly written novel.

Some thoughts about the internal logic and realism of the story:

Although part one was striking, I quickly realised in hindsight that it was irritatingly not-at-all thought through - it completely falls apart when you consider it. (SPOILERS AHEAD!) The air outside the silo is corrosive and poisonous. Those cameras that need regular cleaning have been there for hundreds of years; they would have dissolved to nothing centuries ago - and all the cleaners do is put a new protective film on each lens, which is then supposed to last for several years! When you think about it, even the silo's metal doors would have been eaten through long ago.

Science fiction can create fantastic worlds and visions of the future but there has to be internal logic to the story or the whole thing falls apart and you can't believe in or care about a word that is written. Even if the author chooses to focus on character rather than science, a science fiction novel has surely got to get its basic science right. But Howey clearly doesn't understand basic science, nor did he do the most basic of research:

The silo is huge and it takes the characters at least 2 days to walk from the top to the bottom down the staircase. When you think about it - how deep does that make it...? I'll have a rough guess... I'd estimate that downstairs all the way, going a reasonably slow pace you could easily descend one mile in two hours. Let's say you walk for 8 hours in a day, then that's 4 miles down. In two day's descent that's 8 miles. (but you could probably do double or triple that if you wanted to)

I was wondering about this so quickly looked on the internet. The deepest place humans have currently dug and can stand in is the Tautona gold mine, which is 2.4 miles underground. The temperatures there reach 55 degrees centigrade but they manage to cool them to the high twenties. Yet, Howey has his silo going at least 8 miles underground - maybe much deeper - and never mentions hot temperatures. Actually, he says the opposite, that the the heat from the machine level is pumped down to keep the lower levels warm!

The lower levels of this silo would be at boiling point, uninhabitable. This novel is just nonsense. The whole concept - which relies on the size of the silo and the differences between its levels - is rubbish.

The writing is bad, the characters are monotonous, the pacing is slow, the premise doesn't hold up, and therefore whatever happens in the story can hold little meaning. 'Wool' should never have left the self-published e-book section.


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

maya said:


> Some pretty scathing reviews of 'Wool' on Am*zon, pointing out obvious blunders in the science/plausability department:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Stuff like that bothers me not a jot. It's like looking for plot-holes in an action movie - counterproductive.


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## maya (Feb 18, 2014)

TruXta said:


> Stuff like that bothers me not a jot. It's like looking for plot-holes in an action movie - counterproductive.


Ah, but they also point out that his characters are utterly unbelieveable and cardboard-like, that the main character is just as dull and implausible and that everything's a bit childish and immature... On the other hand, this have often been the case in the majority of SF as it's historically (and often still) been written by fanboys focusing more on the conceptual aspects of the story with no wish to compete with more 'literary' writers...


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## TruXta (Feb 18, 2014)

maya said:


> Ah, but they also point out that his characters are utterly unbelieveable and cardboard-like, that the main character is just as dull and implausible and that everything's a bit childish and immature... On the other hand, this have often been the case in the majority of SF as it's historically (and often still) been written by fanboys focusing more on the conceptual aspects of the story with no wish to compete with more 'literary' writers...


Horses for courses. I quite liked some of the characters.


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## maya (Feb 18, 2014)

(edit- argh! sorry, my brain went a bit wrong last night)

Well now I want to read the Wool trilogy for myself, just to see what I'd make of it... It sounds a bit like Survivors, only set in underground silos?


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## maya (Feb 19, 2014)

Does anyone like Ted Chiang? I've looked for some of his published works but it's notoriously difficult to get hold of (at least where I live- nobody had heard of him, not even the SF convention type people... so I gave up)

Would love to read/find 'The Merchant and the Alchemist's Gate', if anyone knows where to get hold of it please give me a shout...

Right now I'd like to find more SF with an oriental/non-western feel, ever since Dune that's been a 'thing' now and again I suppose, but I mean stories where the world described have a very clear and distinct 'other'cultural feel to it- I'm thinking of specifically that novel from I think the late 1990s or early 00s which presented some sort of quasi-arab universe, I'm damned if I can remember the name of it though... (thought it was 'Arabesque', but searches for that give no results so it can't have been that but perhaps something beginning with A and a slightly arabic feel to the title?) I know the book got mentioned in previous SF threads on here a long time ago, but I don't know what to search for to find it...

BTW 'Brasyl' which someone mentioned does feature a quite heavy-handed reference to Conrad's 'Heart of Darkness' I recall, all that stuff about paddling down the river into the bowels of the jungle surrounded by dangers where they happen to find some sort of DIY native cathedral constructed out of wood- it's been ages since I read it so don't remember the exact details but to me it seemed like he wanted to use that as some sort of metaphor, hinting to Brazil's dark past of slavery and colonisation, unfortunately I'm too thick to really grok what he was on about... Looks like there were references to hallucinogens aswell, talk about quantum jumps and one very memorable almost Blakean 'vision' (in the sky/in his visual field) where one of the characters see all possible parallel universes and outcomes/chains of events projected before his eyes, all the many ways things could've happened- even universes where he was never born and didn't exist, universes where he was someone else or a different gender etc.(I probably add more to this memory than was originally written, but-) It was quite moving actually.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 19, 2014)

Do you mean http://www.j-cg.co.uk/books/pashazade.html maya ?


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## maya (Feb 19, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Do you mean http://www.j-cg.co.uk/books/pashazade.html maya ?


... Yes! Wahey, that's it! Thank you- I know I could trust you, urbanz 

(Unfortunately I'm totally skint right now, but just added it to my shopping list!)


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## DotCommunist (Feb 19, 2014)

maya said:


> Ah, but they also point out that his characters are utterly unbelieveable and cardboard-like, that the main character is just as dull and implausible and that everything's a bit childish and immature... On the other hand, this have often been the case in the majority of SF as it's historically (and often still) been written by fanboys focusing more on the conceptual aspects of the story with no wish to compete with more 'literary' writers...




a sally often aimed at genre fiction tbf- who can really write a good character? What if the characters are just vehicles used to express the ideas?

To anyone who gives it about genre fiction not having realistic characters I give you Mr fucking Darcy and all the other poorly drawn ciphers for maculinity portrayed in Austens endless wittering yarns about upper class women. Fuck realism. I want blood in the mouth so you can taste the iron


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## maya (Feb 19, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> a sally often aimed at genre fiction tbf- who can really write a good character? What if the characters are just vehicles used to express the ideas?
> 
> To anyone who gives it about genre fiction not having realistic characters I give you Mr fucking Darcy and all the other poorly drawn ciphers for maculinity portrayed in Austens endless wittering yarns about upper class women. Fuck realism. I want blood in the mouth so you can taste the iron


I know, I didn't necessarily agree (and haven't read those books anyway), but found it interesting enough to quote... It was mostly the 'oh look the plot/science stuff doesn't hold up' thing I noticed because sometimes if the author writes badly in addition to that it can be taxing to read, but TBH most SF books I've enjoyed regardless and yeah there's an awful lot of literature which doesn't really work well and where the author doesn't write very well- I actually stopped reading fiction at age 14 because I could no longer believe in the characters/world most authors presented, I thought "why do I waste my time reading about fictional people when the author doesn't manage to paint a believeable world which feels real to me, or use language in a way which I don't like at all... I'd rather read about interesting concepts and ideas, non-fiction and science fiction instead"... But TBH this was all long before the internet provided shopping options and good books didn't really leap our way if we didn't spend a lot of time searching for them, so the options were limited and you had to wade through a lot of rubbish to find the good books hidden in between...


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## maya (Feb 19, 2014)

Just remembered- 'A Canticle For Leibowitz' by Walter M. Miller: Epic post-apocalyptic tale where a brotherhood of monks in a world regressed to barbary keep knowledge alive through the centuries by painstakingly copying ancient technical manuals and scientific texts they don't understand...


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## DotCommunist (Feb 19, 2014)

^^ a very good book that- the makers of the text remind me of them who made the book of kells, generations of painstaking devotion to a single tome, wiped from history by one violent incursion by vikings. Corse the kells were rediscovered much much later, minus the bejewelled cover obvs.


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## maya (Feb 19, 2014)

^ "- What's that you've got over there, Harald?"
  "- Quiet, Thorbart! That is my very own loot from the vikingr raid, keep your filthy hands off it!"(whispers, clutching bejewelled shiny object hidden in furry rug: "my preciousssss...."[Gollum voice])
"- Stop acting like a soft woman and drink your mead, Harald!"(treacherously eyeballs treasure)


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## maya (Feb 21, 2014)

BTW Walter M. Miller wrote a sequel to A Canticle For Leibovitz, called 'Saint Leibovitz and the Wild Horse Woman'... someone else had to finish it from his drafts, since unfortunately he passed away before he could finish it.


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