# England Cricket Summer 2011 (Sri Lanka and India)



## Santino (May 25, 2011)

Check out ma catchy thread title.

First Test tomorrow. England ought to win this series 2-0 or 3-0. Although I remember thinking the same thing in 2006.


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## strung out (May 25, 2011)

morgan preferred to bopara. thoughts?


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## Santino (May 25, 2011)

I think Morgan is a better bet. I hope he gets a decent run. Unless he does something truly appalling he ought to be pencilled in for the whole summer. It's good that England have a strong enough batting order now that batsman can come in at no. 6 and work their way up rather than be dropped into the no.3 spot.


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## Santino (May 26, 2011)

Rain forecast. In Wales, of all places!


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## strung out (May 26, 2011)

ruins my plans for the day. 

the one year we have a late start to tests and we get all the sun at the start of the season


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## gabi (May 26, 2011)

Morgan's a far better player than bopara. 

Anyway, looking forward to some proper cricket at last...


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## strung out (May 26, 2011)

not convinced by that. bopara has scored more runs, better average etc than morgan and looks far classier. he just needs to sort his game out against the top teams. reminds me a bit of bell a few years back.


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## gabi (May 26, 2011)

bopara's a bottler. always has been. totally out of his depth at the top level.


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## embree (May 26, 2011)

strung out said:


> ruins my plans for the day.
> 
> the one year we have a late start to tests and we get all the sun at the start of the season



To be fair, Tests in May are a new thing in themselves

And dismissing Bopara as a bottler after what remains a handful of Tests is ludicrous gabi


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## gabi (May 26, 2011)

strung out said:


> not convinced by that. bopara has scored more runs, better average etc than morgan and looks far classier. he just needs to sort his game out against the top teams. reminds me a bit of bell a few years back.


 
bit disingenuous there - their records are practically identical given the number of test innings played. however morgan just looks far classier, maybe not in terms of 'strutting around' as justin langer described bopara but in terms of sticking around and building an innings.


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## strung out (May 26, 2011)

in first class cricket, bopara's record is noticeably better (42 to morgan's 36) and he can bowl a bit too. ravi's not really performed in tests yet except against smaller countries, but then again, morgan has done even less!


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## Santino (May 26, 2011)

I wouldn't make any selection decision based on Bopara's medium pace.


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## gabi (May 26, 2011)

strung out said:


> in first class cricket, bopara's record is noticeably better (42 to morgan's 36) and he can bowl a bit too. ravi's not really performed in tests yet except against smaller countries, but then again, morgan has done even less!


 
bopara's had twice as long in the test arena to prove himself. and failed by and large.


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## strung out (May 26, 2011)

Santino said:


> I wouldn't make any selection decision based on Bopara's medium pace.


 
i wouldn't either particularly, but it's nice to have the option.


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## strung out (May 26, 2011)

gabi said:


> bopara's had twice as long in the test arena to prove himself. and failed by and large.


 
i'd be picking morgan for this series too probably, but i still don't agree that 'morgan's a far better player than bopara' considering they have near identical records in first class cricket.


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## Santino (May 26, 2011)

Sri Lanka win toss and opt to bat. And it's raining again.


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## strung out (May 26, 2011)

obviously i understand why it works like this, but it's faintly ridiculous that it hasn't actually been raining all day, but it's not stopped raining for long enough to have the toss. if this were the second day, they'd have had an hour or so of play already probably.

edit: maybe not an hour, 30 or 40 mins i expect.


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## strung out (May 26, 2011)

and they're off! finally.

e2a: by off, i mean started. they haven't gone off for rain again.


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## Idaho (May 26, 2011)

Tests in Cardiff? If the rain doesn't get you, the utterly dead and dull wicket will.


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## strung out (May 26, 2011)

it's not that dead and dull, i saw gloucestershire get bowled out twice with ease earlier in the season. wait a minute...


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## twentythreedom (May 26, 2011)

Today is a happy day. It's been all ODI and T20 recently - back to real cricket now, good chaps dressed in white, with a red ball. Fantastic!!

And Sangakkara's just edged it to Prior on 11!


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## twentythreedom (May 26, 2011)

((((test cricket))))


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## twentythreedom (May 26, 2011)

So, 133-2 after 48 overs. Let's hope for a couple of early wickets tomorrow before they get too dug in!


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## embree (May 26, 2011)

gabi said:


> bopara's had twice as long in the test arena to prove himself. and failed by and large.


 
if by 'failed' you mean 'scored three centuries in 15 innings compared to Morgan's one in eight' then you are of course correct


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## Streathamite (May 26, 2011)

strung out said:


> not convinced by that. bopara has scored more runs, better average etc than morgan and looks far classier. he just needs to sort his game out against the top teams. reminds me a bit of bell a few years back.


agree with this - there's a test player in there, alright


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## Streathamite (May 26, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> So, 133-2 after 48 overs. Let's hope for a couple of early wickets tomorrow before they get too dug in!


I reckon that's not a bad start for our chaps, all things considered.


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## embree (May 26, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> I reckon that's not a bad start for our chaps, all things considered.


 
Sri Lankan batting is very top heavy, we'll be fine


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## Streathamite (May 26, 2011)

embree said:


> Sri Lankan batting is very top heavy, we'll be fine


yeah, and they were inevitably a tad ring-rusty (our bowlers, that is).


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## Streathamite (May 26, 2011)

gabi said:


> however morgan just looks far classier, maybe not in terms of 'strutting around' as justin langer described bopara but in terms of sticking around and building an innings.


That's all about patience and focus; you can learn those things, as our Mr Cook proved so gloriously last winter


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## Santino (May 27, 2011)

Interesting analysis from Jonathan Agnew - he says we'll know more about who's got the upper hand in this match at the end of the second day's play. Wise words.


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## gabi (May 27, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> That's all about patience and focus; you can learn those things, as our Mr Cook proved so gloriously last winter


 
Cook scored 200 odd and batted for 3 days when he was a kid playing for essex against warne and mcgrath. he didnt learn patience. you're born with it. bopara's destined to be a mediocre 20/20 player, at best.


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## Santino (May 27, 2011)

Ooh, that wicket sounded good.


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## strung out (May 27, 2011)

gabi said:


> Cook scored 200 odd and batted for 3 days when he was a kid playing for essex against warne and mcgrath. he didnt learn patience. you're born with it. bopara's destined to be a mediocre 20/20 player, at best.


 
do you not remember who scored 135 off the exact same australian attack, in the exact same match at the other end while cook was scoring his 200?


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## gabi (May 27, 2011)

Nope... And that says it all really, assuming it was bopara


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## strung out (May 27, 2011)

why does that say it all? you used cook making a big score when he was a kid against australia as a reason that bopara will never be as good as him, but ignore the fact that bopara scored a century in the same match against the same attack.


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## Streathamite (May 27, 2011)

gabi said:


> Cook scored 200 odd and batted for 3 days when he was a kid playing for essex against warne and mcgrath. he didnt learn patience. you're born with it. bopara's destined to be a mediocre 20/20 player, at best.


I disagree, i think you DO learn those things, with maturity.


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## Streathamite (May 27, 2011)

160-4, and Big Bad Jimmy's back and in form


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## Santino (May 27, 2011)

Get Swann on.


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## Streathamite (May 27, 2011)

Yeah, Tremlett and Broad aren't having much luck


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## Streathamite (May 27, 2011)

Jimmy got samaraweera, Sri Lanka now 262-5.


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## Santino (May 27, 2011)

Sounds like Anderson's back is fucked.


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## embree (May 27, 2011)

gabi said:


> Cook scored 200 odd and batted for 3 days when he was a kid playing for essex against warne and mcgrath. he didnt learn patience. you're born with it. bopara's destined to be a mediocre 20/20 player, at best.


 
Fuck me he must have been good if he batted for three days in a two day match


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## embree (May 27, 2011)

gabi said:


> Cook scored 200 odd and batted for 3 days when he was a kid playing for essex against warne and mcgrath. he didnt learn patience. you're born with it. bopara's destined to be a mediocre 20/20 player, at best.


 
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/217971.html

So, apart from the fact that the match lasted two days, Cook's double ton was made at nearly a run a ball inside a day and Warne & McGrath weren't actually playing - you're spot on.


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## twentythreedom (May 27, 2011)

Thank fuck for that. 400 all out. It's crucial that we don't lose any early wickets this evening!! *bites nails*


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## Streathamite (May 27, 2011)

400 - not bad for us, but not great> What with the rain and that score, this one looks like a draw to me, barring a batting collapse from our strongest order since the early 80s


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## twentythreedom (May 27, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> 400 - not bad for us, but not great> What with the rain and that score, this one looks like a draw to me, barring a batting collapse from our strongest order since the early 80s


 
Yeah, it is a strong line-up, but we have a knack of snatching defeat from the jaws of a draw! But, yeah, all things being equal, a draw is quite likely. Shame Jimmy's injured, hope that doesn't cause problems for us.


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## Streathamite (May 27, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> Yeah, it is a strong line-up, but we have a knack of snatching defeat from the jaws of a draw! But, yeah, all things being equal, a draw is quite likely. Shame Jimmy's injured, hope that doesn't cause problems for us.


I'm worried about jimmy too. Hopefully, a night's rest - and most of tomorrow resting whilst we bat - will do the trick. he was bloody good today


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## twentythreedom (May 27, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> I'm worried about jimmy too. Hopefully, a night's rest - and most of tomorrow resting whilst we bat - will do the trick. he was bloody good today



And he's such a nice boy, too  He was awesome. Broad's got skills but he's so petulant...


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## twentythreedom (May 27, 2011)

Ahh shite. Last over. Strauss gone for 20


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## twentythreedom (May 27, 2011)

Come on Jimmy!! In at no. 3 as nightwatchman with his fucked back and everything. Jimmy's a legend.


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## twentythreedom (May 27, 2011)

Interesting (or not) that Jimmy bats left-handed but bowls right-handed...


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## Santino (May 28, 2011)

I could get used to Cook and Trott batting all day.


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## twentythreedom (May 28, 2011)

Trott's great when he really gets dug in. Must be infuriating to bowl to him!!


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## embree (May 28, 2011)

Trott's brilliant, best batsman we have to play the match conditions. Capable of fast scoring or digging in.

Not seen anything live, is the Lankan attack really as toothless as it seems?


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## littlebabyjesus (May 28, 2011)

need malinga


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## littlebabyjesus (May 29, 2011)

There could be lean times ahead for Sri Lanka by the looks of their bowling attack. Fernando is injured and should come back for the next test, so he'll liven things up, but their back-up seamers are very ordinary - almost at a Bangladesh level of ordinariness. Hard to see them bowling England out twice in any match.

I'm still a bit gutted Malinga's not here. His presence would have changed things.


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## twentythreedom (May 29, 2011)

It's quite possible that Malinga would be tearing through the tail already. And KP was out to a left arm spinner again 

Looks like it's heading for a draw...


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## twentythreedom (May 29, 2011)

So, do we get dug in for a draw, or take it to them, try and get the win? It's gonna be tough without Jimmy being fit to bowl though...


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## littlebabyjesus (May 29, 2011)

Take it to them, clearly. Trott's got stuck here. It would help England if he were to get out.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 30, 2011)

10-2. Can England actually make a game of this?


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

Let's hope so! It's bound to end up as a draw though


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 30, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> Let's hope so! It's bound to end up as a draw though



Almost certainly. A couple more quick wickets might at least make it interesting though.


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

Oooh!!! 36-4


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Six!


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## agricola (May 30, 2011)

... switches over from the Swansea game and sees Maharoof go.  43/6?!??!?!!?!!


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

43-6!!!


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

No way did he not know he'd edged it!


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

The proverbial procession now.


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

Bloody hell!!!!


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

We needed Jayawardene gone!


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Oh dear.


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## agricola (May 30, 2011)

This is mental - 52/8.  At the risk of stereotyping, there must surely be questions asked about this if England win - the odds of it happening must have been enormous.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

agricola said:


> This is mental - 52/8.  At the risk of stereotyping, there must surely be questions asked about this if England win - the odds of it happening must have been enormous.


 
Nah.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 30, 2011)

I stopped watching and was playing Civilization.


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## fen_boy (May 30, 2011)

agricola said:


> This is mental - 52/8.  At the risk of stereotyping, there must surely be questions asked about this if England win - the odds of it happening must have been enormous.


 
What? These sort of collapses happen all the time.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

Bloody hell!


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 30, 2011)

agricola said:


> This is mental - 52/8.  At the risk of stereotyping, there must surely be questions asked about this if England win - the odds of it happening must have been enormous.




Rubbish. Apart from anything else who would bother bribing whole teams to collapse completely when you could go for spread betting on no balls or whatever the obscure market of the week is. How many teams have been shown to have thrown games altogether?


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## agricola (May 30, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> What? These sort of collapses happen all the time.


 
On the last day of a rain-affected and seemingly obviously drawn game, when the England first innings ends at half three in the afternoon?  What were the odds on this happening?


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

That it was odds against doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Was England's 51 all out against West Indies a couple of years ago suspect as well, then?


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

Beautiful


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Bloody hell.


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## Badgers (May 30, 2011)

Eeeeek!!


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

All those mugs who had tickets but didn't bother going -


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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

Test cricket is by far the greatest, most intense and esoteric form of the game. I love it!


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Final day. It was free to get in.


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## Badgers (May 30, 2011)

82 all out!!


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## butchersapron (May 30, 2011)




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## twentythreedom (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Final day. It was free to get in.



Even worse, then!


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## Andrew Hertford (May 30, 2011)

butchersapron said:


>



"I never play cricket. It requires one to assume such indecent postures."- Oscar Wilde.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

England took four wickets for every one Sri Lanka took.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Final day. It was free to get in.


 
they were all watching the Swansea match I expect 

Nothing 'suspect' about this, it's cricket, batting collapses happen all the time


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

If England can pull that sort of victory off one more time in the next year or so, especially in different conditions, it will be a huge psychological advantage for a while. It makes them the sort of team you can never write off until the match is over.


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## strung out (May 30, 2011)

bit gutted i missed the first seven wickets. we transferred to a pub that had the football on because it looked to be ending up as a draw. once we heard they were six down, we ran as fast as we could to the nearest pub showing the cricket!


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

It was the kind of match that will keep you watching rain-affected draws for the next 10 years 'just in case'.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> It was the kind of match that will keep you watching rain-affected draws for the next 10 years 'just in case'.


 
Ha, yes. Much boredom will follow. Although to be fair to me, I tuned in this afternoon just in case. You're right that this England team believes in itself. That said, Sri Lanka will be kicking themselves. Swann's wickets in particular were taken far too easily.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Now that Bell has established his place and Collingwood has finally been turfed out of the last chance saloon, I think I'll turn to a 'how long can Stuart Broad continue to underachieve'. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, the England camp still seem to think he is the second best seam bowler in the country. It is curious.


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## strung out (May 30, 2011)

i'm still unconvinced by broad, i must admit, but he does seem to be one of those players who gets a bunch of wickets or a big score when he needs to. see the last home ashes series where he was bobbins for most of it iirc. i'm looking forward to bunny onions coming back soon hopefully.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

His figures certainly aren't that impressive, but Flower and Strauss obviously see something in him. And who am I to argue with them? It would be interesting to see England win/lose/draw statistics with and without him.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

I like Onions too. Still not totally fit by all accounts. I'd rather have Shahzad than Broad too, for that matter, although he's been erratic this season for Yorks. I don't really get it with Broad. Again today, he took the first over. He came back to take a couple of tailender wickets, which is quite a habit too. Otherwise his figures would be even worse. I can think of one match-changing day he's had, Aus at the Oval, and that's about it.


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## strung out (May 30, 2011)

having said all that, his figures are miles better than flintoff's were at that age, so there's certainly something there. he's probably not as good a bowler as freddie, but his batting has got loads more potential i reckon.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

Broad makes more sense as part of a five-man attack.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Has it? He's had one innings of substance. Swann's as good a batsman.


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## strung out (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Has it? He's had one innings of substance. Swann's as good a batsman.


 
i reckon so. broad always seems to play beatifully when he makes runs, but he needs to put more work into his bowling, which means his batting will suffer. swann is just a bully when batting.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

Swann hits a good ball but he's unlikely to score a century. Maybe one or two in amusing circumstances. I think Broad averages higher than him.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> Broad makes more sense as part of a five-man attack.


 
Perhaps. There is a lot of talk about Durham's Ben Stokes as a potential England all-rounder good enough to bat at six. 

I dunno. I'm a bit biased I think. I just don't like Stuart Broad. His dad annoyed me too. Left Gloucs because he wanted to get noticed by England.  It worked, mind.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Perhaps. There is a lot of talk about Durham's Ben Stokes as a potential England all-rounder good enough to bat at six.


 
Ah yes, talk.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

He did score a century today.  Unfortunately I don't have sky and I don't live anywhere near a county ground so I have to rely on the judgement of others.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

He might be the next Botham, but at the moment he's a 19 year old who's played 20-odd first class games.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> Swann hits a good ball but he's unlikely to score a century. Maybe one or two in amusing circumstances. I think Broad averages higher than him.


 
I love watching Swann bat.  Fantastic timing but complete inability to keep the ball down on the ground equals good entertainment. Broad does average a bit higher than him, but Broad's basically had one slightly freakish innings of substance.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> He might be the next Botham, but at the moment he's a 19 year old who's played 20-odd first class games.


 
Mohammed Amir was only 18 last year. Dunno how many first class matches he'd played. If they're good enough, they're old enough.

Anyway, I just looked him up. He's 20 next week.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

After 35 Tests:

Broad (24 years old): 103 wickets ave 35.17; 1096 runs ave 27.40
Flintoff (26 years old): 69 wickets ave 41.28; 1566 runs ave 29.54

Broad's making a greater contribution to the team at a younger age and with the same amount of Test experience as Flintoff


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Yeah, but Flintoff's figures were awful. 

Compare that with Botham at the same stage!

I don't know them, but at that stage, Botham will have had at least 150 wickets and 2000 runs. Probably a lot more than 150 wickets.

You might as well compare him with Chris Lewis or Derek 'facepalm' Pringle if you're going to compare him with early Flintoff.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

I'm not comparing him to Botham though, I'm comparing him to the sainted Freddie (who we're much better off without)


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

If Broad is worse than Botham, he must be dropped.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

I liked Flintoff. He did have a golden period when he was superb. And he was properly fast, which I always like. But nobody's going to deny that in his first few years he was pretty awful.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

But seeing as you mentioned him:

After 35 Tests:
Botham: 1578 runs @31.56 & 168 wickets @21.33


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I liked Flintoff. He did have a golden period when he was superb. And he was properly fast, which I always like. But nobody's going to deny that in his first few years he was pretty awful.


 
And in the last few he was a liability

2004/5 he was OK


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> If Broad is worse than Botham, he must be dropped.



Chris Lewis 

32 Tests: 1105 runs at 23, 93 wickets at 37.  

Broad's record is a little bit better than Chris Lewis's.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

Flintoff is the textbook example of how limited stats are because, it is said, he got a lot of wickets at the other end by putting pressure on the batsmen to try to score off the other bowlers. If you had a spare hour or two it would be illuminating to compare the averages of bowlers like Hoggard and Harmison with and without Flintoff in the side.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> Flintoff is the textbook example of how limited stats are because, it is said, he got a lot of wickets at the other end by putting pressure on the batsmen to try to score off the other bowlers. If you had a spare hour or two it would be illuminating to compare the averages of bowlers like Hoggard and Harmison with and without Flintoff in the side.


 
It would be nice to think this. Certainly Flintoff bowled a lot of spells when he took fewer wickets than he deserved. 

But, England's record when he was injured was much better than when he wasn't.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Chris Lewis
> 
> 32 Tests: 1105 runs at 23, 93 wickets at 37.
> 
> Broad's record is a little bit better than Chris Lewis's.


 
What's your point? You have a massive thing for Broad that suggests only a repressed sexual desire for him that emerges as hatred, like Matt Damon for Jude Law in The Talented Mr Ripley.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Chris Lewis
> 
> 32 Tests: 1105 runs at 23, 93 wickets at 37.
> 
> Broad's record is a little bit better than Chris Lewis's.



A man who played 32 Tests, the last one aged 28. Broad is four years younger, his bowling average improving after averaging over 40 for a while


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> What's your point?


 
My point is that his record is mediocre, and all too often, as on day one of this test, his performances are mediocre. Yet thus far in his career he has never not been picked when fit ever since debut.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It would be nice to think this. Certainly Flintoff bowled a lot of spells when he took fewer wickets than he deserved.
> 
> But, England's record when he was injured was much better than when he wasn't.


 
England's record without him as captain was better than when he was as well 

Not knocking him per se but he wasn't all that outside of the small window between being young/fat/injured and being a celebrity/big head/injured. Not a team man, not as good as he was cracked up to be. If we have to have 'stars' give me Pietersen any day


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

embree said:


> If we have to have 'stars' give me Pietersen any day


 
Oh fuck no. I'm looking forward to handing him his first drink at the last chance saloon some time this summer.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> My point is that his record is mediocre, and all too often, as on day one of this test, his performances are mediocre. Yet thus far in his career he has never not been picked when fit ever since debut.


 
Yet since debut England have risen from the complete shambles of the aftermath of the 2006/7 Ashes to the verge of top spot if we keep these performances going another two months. Pure coincidence.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Oh, the emergence of Swann and the final maturing of Anderson are largely responsible for that.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Oh fuck no. I'm looking forward to handing him his first drink at the last chance saloon some time this summer.


 
Based on performances, yes.

Based on contribution to the team spirit, dressing room etc, no. The more I read about the last four years the greater respect I have for KP and the less for Flintoff


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Oh, the emergence of Swann and the final maturing of Anderson are largely responsible for that.


 
And the rest. It's a team game.


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## Santino (May 30, 2011)

I bet he doesn't even like Trott.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

It's a team game, but the best teams are almost always those with the best bowlers. Most teams' most important player is a bowler. India boast a long list of star batsmen, but when they come to England this summer it is likely to be Zaheer Khan's performance that matters most.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> I bet he doesn't even like Trott.


 
As a batsman I like him. You can't argue with runs. Pity he's South African. I like to see players playing for the countries whose systems taught them to play. Same goes for Pietersen.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

Santino said:


> Flintoff is the textbook example of how limited stats are because, it is said, he got a lot of wickets at the other end by putting pressure on the batsmen to try to score off the other bowlers. If you had a spare hour or two it would be illuminating to compare the averages of bowlers like Hoggard and Harmison with and without Flintoff in the side.



In the same way that Broad bowled well without reward in Brisbane and Adelaide, but his efforts helped the others get their rewards.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's a team game, but the best teams are almost always those with the best bowlers. Most teams' most important player is a bowler. India boast a long list of star batsmen, but when they come to England this summer it is likely to be Zaheer Khan's performance that matters most.



And bowlers operate as a team



littlebabyjesus said:


> As a batsman I like him. You can't argue with runs. Pity he's South African. I like to see players playing for the countries whose systems taught them to play. Same goes for Pietersen.


 
Irrelevant and boring. Part English, entitled to do whatever the fuck they please. In fact Trott is half English, half Zimbabwean.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

It's not irrelevant if you like to see players playing for the country whose system has brought them through, as I do. I don't really see what relevance his parents' origin has at all.


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## strung out (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's not irrelevant if you like to see players playing for the country whose system has brought them through, as I do.


 
i don't like a system that forces players to play for a country they don't necessarily have any affinity for. craig white's was born in yorkshire, his dad was a yorkshireman, and brought his son up an england and yorkshire fan. why should he have been forced to represent australia just because he came through their system? (not that he would ever have been good enough to play for aus of course)


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

Well it's a complex world and sadly such simplicity doesn't exist in many cases. Trott learned his First Class trade in England.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 30, 2011)

embree said:


> Trott learned his First Class trade in England.


 
I don't blame him for coming here. England was until very recently the only country with a fully professional first class game. The motive is invariably money, sadly.


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## embree (May 30, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's not irrelevant if you like to see players playing for the country whose system has brought them through, as I do. I don't really see what relevance his parents' origin has at all.


 
Perhaps one's parents' country of origin is important to other people? Perhaps it's possible to feel an allegiance to more than one country? Maybe there are people around who feel entitled to make their own choices about where to play and who for rather than being forced into boxes by arbitrary rules that don't suit their own instincts.

I'm happy that England's cricket team is representative of the diverse people who choose to live here


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## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2011)

embree said:


> I'm happy that England's cricket team is representative of the diverse people who choose to live here


 
It is? It's not far short of a disgrace that so few players of Asian origin play for England given the size of the Asian population and the fact that cricket is their number one sport. South Africans coming here when they are young adults as they find their opportunities limited at home - as both Trott and Pietersen did - are not exactly representative of multicultural Britain.

The Asian imbalance should be sorted eventually, as it is only in the last decade or so that Yorkshire have finally started paying attention to developing players in places like Bradford. They're coming through now. That they didn't before was a fucking scandal, really.

And I'm sorry, but the idea that the likes of Trott and Pietersen grew up dreaming of playing for England is laughable. They did not. They came here because they could earn more money by coming here. They are examples of children of emigrants playing for England. Two children of emigrants and not a single child of immigrants in the current team! They're representative of parents who chose _not_ to live in this country. Who preferred to move to apartheid South Africa. Lovely.


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## embree (May 31, 2011)

As I said, it's a complex world which doesn't fit your simplistic categorisations. I'm eligible to represent more than one country and if I was given the opportunity to I'd happily play for either.

Asian players have been getting picked for England for ages btw


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## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2011)

The odd one. Nasser Hussain was half Indian. As was Mark Ramprakash. There's Panesar of course, and the odd appearance by a couple of others. And that's it.

There hasn't been a player of Afro-Caribbean origin for years. Oh, I lie. Carberry played against Bangladesh while Strauss was resting.


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## embree (May 31, 2011)

Mark Ramprakash is half Guyanese. Is his dad an Indian then despite coming from Guyana? Is Trott therefore English despite coming from South Africa?

Just interested

So anyway, we agree there have been several English cricketers of Asian heritage representing England. Glad we've cleared that up. Do you have relative numbers for white British cricketers across the UK compared to asians? In First Class cricket? In the Test/ODI side? Or are you just making unsupported assertions because you think there should have been more?


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## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2011)

I stand corrected for Ramprakash. He was born and brought up in the UK, though, so no, the comparison isn't valid. 

As for 'unsupported assertions', you go to the Asian leagues in Yorkshire and ask them about Yorkshire cricket club's exclusion of them for decades. There is a long and inglorious history of huge numbers of Asian players being ignored by the county cricket system, something that has only very recently changed. Did you really not know that?


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## embree (May 31, 2011)

So, what we're saying is that when immigrant populations arrive in a new country, it takes some time for existing structures to adapt to them. Language, cultural differences, expectations, mutual incomprehension and sometimes downright racism all play their part. It's difficult, it's complicated, it takes some time to work its way through the system. It's not a case of waving a wand and bingo, we have large numbers of British asians in the system. And yes, I'm aware of the issues you mention, I'm aware it's really not as simple as you seem to believe.

I'm also aware that the numbers of asian league cricketers throughout Britain are dwarfed by the number of whites. I'm not so sure that we should be seeing loads of them in the side given an even go, the numbers don't stack up like that.

You make a point about afro-Caribbean players - you don't think a relative decline in the social importance of cricket amongst that community plays a part?


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## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2011)

embree said:


> I'm also aware that the numbers of asian league cricketers throughout Britain are dwarfed by the number of whites.


 
Really? What are the numbers? Dwarfed? Have you ever been to Yorkshire?


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## embree (May 31, 2011)

50 new Test caps since 2000. 8 to players of asian origin

2001 census - 3.9% of the UK population is of Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi origin


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## embree (May 31, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Really? What are the numbers? Dwarfed? Have you ever been to Yorkshire?


 
ever been to the rest of the country? Really, it doesn't look like Bradford


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## embree (May 31, 2011)

embree said:


> 50 new Test caps since 2000. 8 to players of asian origin
> 
> 2001 census - 3.9% of the UK population is of Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi origin


 
so, 16% of new Test caps in the last 11 years have gone to players of asian heritage. Leave out Amjad Khan (from Denmark) and 14% are British asians. Doing blindingly well there if we're looking at being proportional

Take it back to 1990 and we're looking at 12 out of 109 newly capped England Test cricketers are of asian extraction. Still looking pretty good to me

Nasser Hussain, Ronnie Irani, Min Patel, Aftab Habib, Usman Afzaal, Kabir Ali, Monty Panesar, Owais Shah, Sajid Mahmood, Ravi Bopara, Amjad Khan, Ajmal Shahzad. 172 caps in 253 Tests since the start of 1990. 172 caps out of 2783.

11% of English Test cricketers of asian origin in 21 years filling 6% of available places in the team. There may be an issue in producing players of sufficient quality to hold down a regular place but purely in terms of proportionality to population, the last two decades have been fine.


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## embree (May 31, 2011)

embree said:


> Broad is four years younger, his bowling average improving after averaging over 40 for a while


 
To expand: since Strauss took over as captain, Broad has taken 77 wickets @ 31.77, economy rate 3.07. An acceptable contribution

Coming off a long injury lay off in this Test he took 4/134, conceding 3.3 an over. Looks fine from here


----------



## redsquirrel (May 31, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Now that Bell has established his place and Collingwood has finally been turfed out of the last chance saloon, I think I'll turn to a 'how long can Stuart Broad continue to underachieve'. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, the England camp still seem to think he is the second best seam bowler in the country. It is curious.


Totally agree, England's golden boy has had it far too easy.

Amazing win though.


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## strung out (May 31, 2011)

seriously, why the fuck has jade dernbach been called up?


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## paulhackett (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> seriously, why the fuck has jade dernbach been called up?



He's one of the highest rated players on the county circuit (amongst county coaches certainly). Bowls with variety.

Options would have been Onions (ugh) or Shahzad to cover for Jimmy.


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## strung out (May 31, 2011)

dernbach has been rubbish all season. 13 wickets at 36 in the second division?


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## gabi (May 31, 2011)

*another* saffa? 

the rugby team is basically new zealand B and your cricket team probably speak afrikaans in the dressing room


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## paulhackett (May 31, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Now that Bell has established his place and Collingwood has finally been turfed out of the last chance saloon, I think I'll turn to a 'how long can Stuart Broad continue to underachieve'. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, the England camp still seem to think he is the second best seam bowler in the country. It is curious.



Think someone mentioned Stokes.. there's also Woakes coming through.

The future is bright.. or should be. 

Broad doesn't seem to bowl a 'heavy' ball so he doesn't look up to much for a bowler of his height. And at the moment he isn't up to much which is why his greatest feat is being hit for 6 6s by Yuvraj..


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## Badgers (May 31, 2011)

What were the odds on England winning before the start of the 3rd innings?


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## paulhackett (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> dernbach has been rubbish all season. 13 wickets at 36 in the second division?



There was a 'who do you think is the best...' by Wisden and his name came up. He maybe benefited from having Tremlett at the other end..

And thank god they don't always go by stats.. there'd have been no Trescothick etc etc


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## gabi (May 31, 2011)

it was 1000-1 at 3pm yesterday when play started


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## Streathamite (May 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> *another* saffa?
> 
> the rugby team is basically new zealand B and your cricket team probably speak afrikaans in the dressing room


 whatever language they are speaking, presumably "God, the aussies are easy to spank" trips off the tongue easily in it


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## Streathamite (May 31, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Final day. It was free to get in.


according to t'beeb, there were nineteen spectators there at the start.
Watching England these days is a surreal experience. I mean, nothing before now could have prepared me for scores of 491, let alone 500 and 600. Nor all those double centuries.
equally - aussies out for 98, and now THIS? Eighty-two wtf?


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## Badgers (May 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> it was 1000-1 at 3pm yesterday when play started


 
Blimey, I would have had a quid or a million pounds on that or something.


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## gabi (May 31, 2011)

I did wonder whether one or two of the sri lankan players might've had a wee flutter


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> it was 1000-1 at 3pm yesterday when play started


 
Really? I find that very hard to believe tbh. It wasn't THAT unlikely by a long way.


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## gabi (May 31, 2011)

Well thats they claimed on sky sports news this morning. Altho granted SS news isn't renowned for its accuracy.


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## embree (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> seriously, why the fuck has jade dernbach been called up?


 
He plays for Surrey. Gives him a head start over anybody else, regardless of Championship position


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## trampie (May 31, 2011)

I wonder if there will be a stewarts enquiry into the result ?, have England got their wish of having English only umpires to officiate all their test matches yet ?, I know they had it changed to neutral umpires back in the day but then they wanted it changed again so only English umpires umpire England, you couldnt make it up could you.

Remember when the whinging Poms moaned so much that the outcome of a test series was changed because of their moaning when they played in Sri Lanka a few years ago, I effectively gave up on cricket after that, disgraceful.


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## strung out (May 31, 2011)

it's your team too, taffy


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## trampie (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> it's your team too, taffy


Is it heck, just like the British Lions whats that all about, playing with the Germans, im Welsh.


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## trampie (May 31, 2011)

trampie said:


> I wonder if there will be a stewarts enquiry into the result ?, have England got their wish of having English only umpires to officiate all their test matches yet ?, I know they had it changed to neutral umpires back in the day but then they wanted it changed again so only English umpires umpire England, you couldnt make it up could you.
> 
> Remember when the whinging Poms moaned so much that the outcome of a test series was changed because of their moaning when they played in Sri Lanka a few years ago, I effectively gave up on cricket after that, disgraceful.



One the the worst things ive known in sports was the Sri Lanka V England series a decade ago or there abouts, Sri Lanka won the first test and got some decisions go their way, the English went nuts, they made such a song and dance about not getting the rub of the green that the umpires gave every decision too England for the remaining two test matches, the pressure put on them was terrible, if the test series had run its normal course Sri Lanka would have won 2-0, but because of whinging England won 2-1.


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## strung out (May 31, 2011)

why do you hate your own team so much?


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## trampie (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> why do you hate your own team so much?


 
I dont hate any team 'strung out', I just like Chwarae teg {fairplay}.


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## strung out (May 31, 2011)

at least england (and wales) won though eh?


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## trampie (May 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> at least england (and wales) won though eh?



Yes, marvellous.


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## embree (Jun 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> I wonder if there will be a stewarts enquiry into the result ?, have England got their wish of having English only umpires to officiate all their test matches yet ?, I know they had it changed to neutral umpires back in the day but then they wanted it changed again so only English umpires umpire England, you couldnt make it up could you.
> 
> Remember when the whinging Poms moaned so much that the outcome of a test series was changed because of their moaning when they played in Sri Lanka a few years ago, I effectively gave up on cricket after that, disgraceful.


 
what the fuck are you on about you moron?


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## Streathamite (Jun 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> I dont hate any team 'strung out', I just like Chwarae teg {fairplay}.


wot, you think it's possible to have a dodgy INNINGS victory?
mental, utterly mental.


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## Santino (Jun 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> you couldnt make it up could you.


 
I disagree.


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## Streathamite (Jun 1, 2011)

So trotters is player of the year. Think it shoulda gone to Cook meself.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> I wonder if there will be a stewarts enquiry into the result ?, have England got their wish of having English only umpires to officiate all their test matches yet ?, I know they had it changed to neutral umpires back in the day but then they wanted it changed again so only English umpires umpire England, you couldnt make it up could you.
> 
> Remember when the whinging Poms moaned so much that the outcome of a test series was changed because of their moaning when they played in Sri Lanka a few years ago, I effectively gave up on cricket after that, disgraceful.



I'm not entirely certain what you're talking about, but after the Gatting - Shakoor Rana debacle in Pakistan, England were among the prime movers to get neutral umpires. We won't ever return to tests with 'home' umpires.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 1, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> So tderotters is player of the year. Think it shoulda gone to Cook meself.


 
Cook had a stinker of a summer last year, remember. It's fair enough to give it to a player who's performed well all year. I'd have given it to Anderson.


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## Andrew Hertford (Jun 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> I wonder if there will be a stewarts enquiry into the result ?, have England got their wish of having English only umpires to officiate all their test matches yet ?, I know they had it changed to neutral umpires back in the day but then they wanted it changed again so only English umpires umpire England, you couldnt make it up could you.
> 
> Remember when the whinging Poms moaned so much that the outcome of a test series was changed because of their moaning when they played in Sri Lanka a few years ago, I effectively gave up on cricket after that, disgraceful.



I'm currently compiling a list of the the top sixty cricketers of all time. Obviously there won't be any English players in it, but I'd like it to contain a couple of token Welsh players. Can you help?


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## mattie (Jun 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> I wonder if there will be a stewarts enquiry into the result ?, have England got their wish of having English only umpires to officiate all their test matches yet ?, I know they had it changed to neutral umpires back in the day but then they wanted it changed again so only English umpires umpire England, you couldnt make it up could you.
> 
> Remember when the whinging Poms moaned so much that the outcome of a test series was changed because of their moaning when they played in Sri Lanka a few years ago, I effectively gave up on cricket after that, disgraceful.


 
A whinge about whinging.



Well played, sir.


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## paulhackett (Jun 1, 2011)

embree said:


> He plays for Surrey. Gives him a head start over anybody else, regardless of Championship position



Mark Ramprakash averaging 100+ over 2 seasons playing for Surrey. That helped..


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## trampie (Jun 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm not entirely certain what you're talking about, but after the Gatting - Shakoor Rana debacle in Pakistan, England were among the prime movers to get neutral umpires. We won't ever return to tests with 'home' umpires.



They are still not happy because neutral umpires occasionally get things wrong {thats the game thats the way it always has been somebody tell the English for crying out loud and the Sun newspaper and Skysports that the ref or umpires decision is final, even if it is a mistake}, the English are no longer happy with neutral umpires as they think that neutral umpires are not the best in the World that English umpires are, therefore England should have English umpires officiating all their games, you couldnt make it up, the English complain when there was home umpires, then the English complain after getting their way and having neutral umpires and now they want English only umpires. 
It happens every time England lose a match if they have not had the rub of the green, its got so bad with English football that top refs have packed it in because of death threats from English fans, the media whipping up doughnuts into thinking they were cheated.

Come on England ffs, win and lose with good grace.


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## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

iirc, international umpires want to see the end of neutral only umpires, primarily because it means they won't have to spend all year jetting around the world, never getting a chance to umpire in their own country.


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## gabi (Jun 1, 2011)

Trott.... He's the alan shearer of cricket. the *most* boring player i've ever had the misfortune to watch...

As if test cricket wasn't suffering enough from being 'too slow', along comes a man who'll take a full minute between deliveries at times and then block it when he does eventually face up.


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## mattie (Jun 1, 2011)

gabi said:


> Trott.... He's the alan shearer of cricket. the *most* boring player i've ever had the misfortune to watch...
> 
> As if test cricket wasn't suffering enough from being 'too slow', along comes a man who'll take a full minute between deliveries at times and then block it when he does eventually face up.


 
You'd have loved Boycott.





Mainly because he moans as much as you.


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## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

you've never watched jacques kallis then?


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## gabi (Jun 1, 2011)

i do love boycott, for that very reason


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## gabi (Jun 1, 2011)

kallis is a fucking rockstar compared to trott


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## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

it's worth remembering too, that if trott carries on the way he's started, he's on course to be the second greatest batsman of all time


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## gabi (Jun 1, 2011)

and how fucking depressing is that


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> the English are no longer happy with neutral umpires as they think that neutral umpires are not the best in the World that English umpires are, therefore England should have English umpires officiating all their games, you couldnt make it up,


 
You just have made that up, though. Where did you read that 'the English' are no longer happy with neutral umpires? Which English? Some bloke you met in a pub?


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## Santino (Jun 1, 2011)

Kallis strike-rate is lower than Trott's.


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## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

fine by me if he carries on scoring like he has and helping england to the success that he has.


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## Santino (Jun 1, 2011)

strung out said:


> it's worth remembering too, that if trott carries on the way he's started, he's on course to be the second greatest batsman of all time


 
Steady on, so was Mike Hussey at one time. Didn't he average 80something for a short while?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 1, 2011)

strung out said:


> it's worth remembering too, that if trott carries on the way he's started, he's on course to be the second greatest batsman of all time


 
That won't happen. Players have golden periods like this for ten, maybe twenty tests, but doing it for a whole career is another matter.


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## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> Steady on, so was Mike Hussey at one time. Didn't he average 80something for a short while?


 
well yes. i did say only if he carries on like he has. i fully expect his average to drop once bowlers come up against him for a second time.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 1, 2011)

He's also filled his boots against poor attacks - SL last week, Bangladesh last year. Australia in the winter.


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## trampie (Jun 1, 2011)

Andrew Hertford said:


> I'm currently compiling a list of the the top sixty cricketers of all time.  Can you help?


Batsmen:-
1] Donald Bradman {Australia}
2] Graeme Pollock {South Africa}
3] Brian Lara {West Indies}
4] Sachin Tendulkar {India}

All Rounders:-
1] Garfield Sobers {West Indies}
2] Richard Hadlee {New Zealand}
3] Imran Khan {Pakistan}

Wicketkeeper:-
1] Adam Gilchrist {Australia}

Bowlers:-
1] Muttiah Muralitharan {Sri Lanka}
2] Malcolm Marshall {West Indies}
3] Shane Warne {Australia}

There is eleven top boys to give you a start, not in batting order or nothing like that just my top players for the various disciplines of cricket, hope this helps.


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## 1927 (Jun 1, 2011)

You have to admire Trampie's ability to spout complete bollocks on two different sports with such ease!


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 1, 2011)

Not a bad list, but Pollock simply didn't play enough tests to prove himself worthy of inclusion in an all-time list. Tough on him, perhaps, but a batsman needs to play more than 23 matches to be judged an all-time great.


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## trampie (Jun 1, 2011)

1927 said:


> You have to admire Trampie's ability to spout complete bollocks on two different sports with such ease!


From what I have seen it looks like im going to be the sites sporting historian, boys on here seem to know Porthcawl about the history of our main sports or the various merits of players, remember when Man Utd fans thought that Cantona was better than George Best, Duncan Edwards, Bobby Charlton and Dennis Law, I blame Sky and the Sun for dumbing everything down, what did the French used to say about Cantona, a big player in a little game and a little player in a big game they could say the same for Henry a few years later too, but there you go, perhaps you boys will learn something from Trampie you never know.  What do you think of my list of the greatest cricketers for various disciplines =
 Batsmen:-
1] Donald Bradman {Australia}
2] Graeme Pollock {South Africa}
3] Brian Lara {West Indies}
4] Sachin Tendulkar {India}

All Rounders:-
1] Garfield Sobers {West Indies}
2] Richard Hadlee {New Zealand}
3] Imran Khan {Pakistan}

Wicketkeeper:-
1] Adam Gilchrist {Australia}

Bowlers:-
1] Muttiah Muralitharan {Sri Lanka}
2] Malcolm Marshall {West Indies}
3] Shane Warne {Australia}

Not too much to argue about with those boys, should Sir Richard be listed as an all rounder or do I put him as #4 greatest ever bowler ?


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## trampie (Jun 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not a bad list, but Pollock simply didn't play enough tests to prove himself worthy of inclusion in an all-time list. Tough on him, perhaps, but a batsman needs to play more than 23 matches to be judged an all-time great.


Not a bad list, not a definative list then 'littlebabyjesus' ?, some would pick Tendulkar over Lara, I believe Tendulkar has a slightly better test average {cant be arsed to check}, but Tendulkar didnt play in a side struggling all the time, having to bat with the tail, plus wickets in Asia are very flat, and from what I remember Tendulkar wasnt brilliant for Yorkshire, whereas Lara was setting world records for Warwickshire.

As regards G.Pollack, George Best is a top 10 ATG in my book and he didnt play in the world cup, likewise G.Pollack is an ATG batsman in my book second only to Bradman although aparteid interupted his career, what was the largest island in the world before Australia was discovered, answer = Australia, Pollack was an ATG.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 1, 2011)

Best played club football at a high level, which is as good a standard as the World Cup. Non-test cricket is not the same standard as test cricket. Just ask Graeme Hick or Mark Ramprakash. However many runs Pollock scored outside test matches, he didn't prove himself for a sustained period in tests due to the sporting ban. Tough on him, but true. Ditto Barry Richards.

And it's not a definitive list, no. Of course not! There is always room to argue over these things.


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## twentythreedom (Jun 1, 2011)

Hooray! Test match tomorrow. Test cricket is fucking awesome!


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## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

no it isn't, it's on friday.


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## twentythreedom (Jun 1, 2011)

Or is it friday when it starts? Anyway, yay cricket.


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## twentythreedom (Jun 1, 2011)

strung out was well quick off the mark there!


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## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

gotta be quick in this game!


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## twentythreedom (Jun 1, 2011)

strung out said:


> gotta be quick in this game!



Too right. As quick as Finn when the lad's on fire!


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## twentythreedom (Jun 1, 2011)

Someone chucking a lump of leather at 95mph from 10ft up? Fuck that!!!


----------



## embree (Jun 2, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> Mark Ramprakash averaging 100+ over 2 seasons playing for Surrey. That helped..


 
even the notoriously Surrey friendly England selectors couldn't have justified a plainly ludicrous selection like that


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## Streathamite (Jun 2, 2011)

gabi said:


> Trott.... He's the alan shearer of cricket. the *most* boring player i've ever had the misfortune to watch...
> 
> As if test cricket wasn't suffering enough from being 'too slow', along comes a man who'll take a full minute between deliveries at times and then block it when he does eventually face up.


ahh yes, he's got the second highest test average of all time _entirely_ by accident. doh!


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## Streathamite (Jun 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> the English are no longer happy with neutral umpires as they think that neutral umpires are not the best in the World that English umpires are, therefore England should have English umpires officiating all their games, you couldnt make it up, the English complain when there was home umpires, then the English complain after getting their way and having neutral umpires and now they want English only umpires.


Christ, how much hard work did you have to put in to end up spouting superlative, massive bollocks like this?


----------



## gabi (Jun 2, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> ahh yes, he's got the second highest test average of all time _entirely_ by accident. doh!


 
when did say anything about his success being accidental?

i was just commenting on his personal style. or lack of it.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 2, 2011)

gabi said:


> when did say anything about his success being accidental?
> 
> i was just commenting on his personal style. or lack of it.


fine, but would that make you not want him in the current australian side, if such a thing were possible?
because you and I both know that he would walk straight into the current aussie XI, accompanied by the sound of the selectors howling their gratitude


----------



## strung out (Jun 2, 2011)

tbf, gabi is a kiwi, not an aussie, even though he was cheering them on in the ashes.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> tbf, gabi is a kiwi, not an aussie, even though he was cheering them on in the ashes.


ahh...my bad. Mind, trott'd do the same with NZ too


----------



## embree (Jun 2, 2011)

Having watched Gary Kirsten and Jacques Kallis in the flesh, I can confidently say Trott isn't the most boring player I've ever seen


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 3, 2011)

Don't forget (or rather do..) Chris Tavare.. 6 and an half hours to score 35 in Chennai in 81.. BUT every test team needs one.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 3, 2011)

Excellent the Cricket starts again.  England win this test they become #1 apparently, not that it means a huge amount but nice all the same.

I'm 99% sure England will go with Finn, although I am slightly concerned our attack will be a bit samey, never mind I'm sure we'll get a result.


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> England win this test they become #1 apparently


are you SURE of this? I thought they needed to win both this summer's series to get there?


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> Don't forget (or rather do..) Chris Tavare.. 6 and an half hours to score 35 in Chennai in 81.. *BUT every test team needs one*


Bolded because Paul's hit the nail squarely on the head. England's biggest historic problem has been the lack of a trott (or Boycott, or tavare etc) - players who grind out results and sell their wicket very dearly indeed.
f'rinstance, I'm confident KP will get his form back at some point, and when he does by god will he make runs. But for all those times when him and belll don't shine - a Trott holds the innings together


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

embree said:


> Having watched Gary Kirsten and Jacques Kallis in the flesh, I can confidently say Trott isn't the most boring player I've ever seen


You saw _both_ those two LIVE??? 
you poor, poor man (or woman).
there's a limit to human suffering......


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## Santino (Jun 3, 2011)

Hmm, something not right here.


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

19-2 WTF????
actually, it may be a blessing in disguise. england need a stiff test from Sri Lanka to get them right for India. first innings aside, sri Lanka were limp as fuck in the first test


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## Santino (Jun 3, 2011)

Oh for fuck's sake.


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## mattie (Jun 3, 2011)

Cometh the hour, cometh Ian Bell.


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

Yup, this Innings now hangs on whether Bell and Cook can dig in there


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

75-3, lunch, and thank fuck for Bell and Cook


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## mrkikiet (Jun 3, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> 75-3, lunch, and thank fuck for Bell and Cook


 
bet you didn't think you woudl be saying that about 3 years ago.


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

mrkikiet said:


> bet you didn't think you woudl be saying that about 3 years ago.


Bell possibly not (admired his strokeplay skills, wasn't sure whether he had the determination and grit to go with it), but Cook yes. Always been a big fan of his, so now i feel smugly vindicated


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## Santino (Jun 3, 2011)

Cook's fourth consecutive score of 82 or higher, stat fans.


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## butchersapron (Jun 3, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Bell possibly not (admired his strokeplay skills, wasn't sure whether he had the determination and grit to go with it), but Cook yes. Always been a big fan of his, so now i feel smugly vindicated


 
Not me. Get them out of here - that was me. Imagine how good we _could_ have been.


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Not me. Get them out of here - that was me. Imagine how good we _could_ have been.


ahh, but with whom in their place, is the question....or are you saying they proved you wrong?


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## butchersapron (Jun 3, 2011)

I was wrong. So far.


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## embree (Jun 3, 2011)

Should England win I believe we go second in the rankings, not first.

Bell makes runs under pressure, not that this will avoid people quoting that ludicrous 'fact' about him never doing so. Cook has gone past Mark Boucher, John Wright, Ian Chappell and Michael Slater in the all time run scoring stakes with that innings.

I love Matt Prior and his massive chin btw


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

Cook's form since the start of the Ashes; 7 tests, 9 innings, 995 runs, _Guardian_ reckons an average of 124 confused


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## embree (Jun 3, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Cook's form since the start of the Ashes; 7 tests, 9 innings, 995 runs, _Guardian_ reckons an average of 124 confused


 
If you're confused about the average, that includes not outs - he was not out at Brisbane so it's 995 runs for only 8 times out - 124

Good day - recovered from wobbles well, middle order solid as anything


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## Streathamite (Jun 3, 2011)

Actually, I think it's a measure of how much this side have progressed, and how good they are, that many people's reaction to today will be "not bad, _but_..." as if we expect a score near 500 (or above) every time now. There have been past england sides where I'd have leapt for joy at this score.
Also, the most important stat for me is that FOUR England batsmen got half-centuries. That's the batting depth you need


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## redsquirrel (Jun 4, 2011)

Agreed, middle order worked well today, you can easily imagine past England sides collapsing after that start but this side came back and have got a pretty good position.


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## paulhackett (Jun 4, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Actually, I think it's a measure of how much this side have progressed, and how good they are, that many people's reaction to today will be "not bad, _but_..." as if we expect a score near 500 (or above) every time now. There have been past england sides where I'd have leapt for joy at this score.
> Also, the most important stat for me is that FOUR England batsmen got half-centuries. That's the batting depth you need



The bowling attack is poor (as are a lot of international attacks at the moment). No Vaas, Murali or Malinga and having established a foothold on a greenish top they slung it down wide of off stump to (certainly) Morgan and Cook.

Is Cook better than Atherton? Atherton faced Walsh, Ambrose, McGrath, Hughes, Gillespie, Pollock, Donald, Warne, Murali etc. all at their prime. I forgot to mention Waqar and Wasim

I still hate Bell. Drop him for Bopara..


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## embree (Jun 4, 2011)

Back to back centuries for Matt Prior, his fifth in Tests. Great player to have come in at seven and take the game away from the opposition


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 4, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> The bowling attack is poor (as are a lot of international attacks at the moment).


 
Sadly I think this is true and has been for a while. Dale Steyn is just about the only bowler in the world at the moment who stands comparison with the greats of the past.


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## embree (Jun 4, 2011)

I think that's self evident just from looking at batting averages now. Pitches are far more batsman friendly now as well.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 5, 2011)

Rain's come at a very bad time. To state the bleeding obvious. England are really missing Anderson. Another poor performance from Stuart Broad. I still don't get it. I think India's batsmen are going to enjoy his bowling later in the summer. His runs are irrelevant when he's part of a four-man attack - he has to justify his place by being one of the best three seamers in the country. I just don't think he is.


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## paulhackett (Jun 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Rain's come at a very bad time. To state the bleeding obvious. England are really missing Anderson. Another poor performance from Stuart Broad. I still don't get it. I think India's batsmen are going to enjoy his bowling later in the summer. His runs are irrelevant when he's part of a four-man attack - he has to justify his place by being one of the best three seamers in the country. I just don't think he is.



He isn't.. league players get more movement on flat pitches ripping their fingers down the seam than this lot.. it's unbelievably poor. He doesn't even attempt to disguise the delivery when he runs in. I don't understand why a like for like replacement for Anderson wasn't brought in, especially when none of the top 6 are that effective as bowlers..


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 5, 2011)

They were carried away with Tremlett's success at Cardiff, probably, ignoring the fact that Anderson had been by far the best bowler in the first innings. 

I think we should all forget about Cardiff now. It was one of those freakish collapses that happen from time to time, that's all. Finn's been all over the shop, but I don't have a problem with him being picked - he has been very impressive before. Unfortunately, Finn's probably been poor enough that Broad will still keep his place if Anderson comes back for the third test. 

As commentators have been pointing out, Broad swings the ball early. I think he needs to be sent away to work on his game. I've been thinking that ever since he was picked, mind you. He is undroppable, it seems.


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## Idaho (Jun 5, 2011)

Faith in players, and sticking with players sometimes works and it sometimes doesn't. With Cook and Bell it worked. With Broad and Pieterson...?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 5, 2011)

Pietersen has earned the right to be persevered with for a bit. He's a proven performer in a slump. 

But Broad's never convinced me, I'm afraid. I just think he's overrated, and I do not understand why he keeps getting picked ahead of others who have far better test records than him - the likes of Finn and Onions and previously Sidebottom.


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## gabi (Jun 6, 2011)

enjoying the tms lunch conversation, particularly the revelation that the lords groundman is called Mike Hunt.

anyway, finally, game back on.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 6, 2011)

I think he's normally called Mick.


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## Santino (Jun 6, 2011)

According to THE INTERNET you can get into Lord's from 3.40pm for £12.


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## Idaho (Jun 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Pietersen has earned the right to be persevered with for a bit. He's a proven performer in a slump.
> 
> But Broad's never convinced me, I'm afraid. I just think he's overrated, and I do not understand why he keeps getting picked ahead of others who have far better test records than him - the likes of Finn and Onions and previously Sidebottom.



Anderson was very mediocre when he started with England...


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 6, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Anderson was very mediocre when he started with England...


 
Yep. And he was dropped several times as a result. Broad has yet to be dropped once. I'm all for backing players and giving them a decent run, but the likes of Onions, for instance, really ought to be ahead of him in the pecking order at the moment, just as Anderson fell behind in the pecking order following poor performances when he was younger.


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## Streathamite (Jun 6, 2011)

Given that Strauss has just been out very early doors YET AGAIN, how come nobody's makin g a noise about the captain's poor form?


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## strung out (Jun 6, 2011)

because the captain doesn't get dropped unless he's playing really really terribly.

an average of 35 last year isn't _too_ bad either (not saying it's good, mind)


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## Streathamite (Jun 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> But Broad's never convinced me, I'm afraid. I just think he's overrated, and I do not understand why he keeps getting picked ahead of others who have far better test records than him - the likes of Finn and Onions and previously Sidebottom.


I hate to point this out, but you were the one, IIRC, who was lukewarm about Bresnan and Tremlett, just before they put in terrific Ashes performances.
and Broad did nab a half-ton in England's innings...


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 6, 2011)

I was lukewarm about Bresnan but not Tremlett.

And as he is part of a four-man bowling attack, I would argue that his extra runs should not be a consideration. They would only be relevant in a five-man attack.


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## Streathamite (Jun 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> because the captain doesn't get dropped unless he's playing really really terribly.
> 
> an average of 35 last year isn't _too_ bad either (not saying it's good, mind)


yeah, good point


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## twentythreedom (Jun 6, 2011)

Trott must be so irritating to bowl to. He's proper OCD


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## strung out (Jun 6, 2011)

trott scoring at a SR of 76!


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## Streathamite (Jun 6, 2011)

so long as those two keep doing the business, I don't care how tediously boycottesque trott is


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## embree (Jun 6, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Given that Strauss has just been out very early doors YET AGAIN, how come nobody's makin g a noise about the captain's poor form?



Because his record as captain is unimpeachable



strung out said:


> trott scoring at a SR of 76!


 
He can score at any rate he needs to. He's a very good all round batsman for any situation


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## embree (Jun 7, 2011)

Well this is interesting:

Lord's loses out to Cardiff for Windies Test next year

This has not gone down well with the MCC!


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## paulhackett (Jun 7, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Given that Strauss has just been out very early doors YET AGAIN, how come nobody's makin g a noise about the captain's poor form?


 
Did you see the ball he got out to? Don't think you can blame him? Best ball of the game wasn't it?

But yes..

Drop him.


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## mrkikiet (Jun 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I was lukewarm about Bresnan but not Tremlett.
> 
> And as he is part of a four-man bowling attack, I would argue that his extra runs should not be a consideration. They would only be relevant in a five-man attack.


 
Everybody should be lukewarm about Tremlett - he is average. WHen it is going his way fine but he rarely seems to turn games round to suit him when conditions don't suit him.

an aside: what has happened to TrippyLondoner?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 7, 2011)

Um, Tremlett just won England a game from nowhere. And he was tremendous in Aus. His short test record so far is first rate.


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## mrkikiet (Jun 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Um, Tremlett just won England a game from nowhere. And he was tremendous in Aus. His short test record so far is first rate.


 
favourable conditions.

and why is his test career currently so short? because he is a slightly above average county bowler who hasn't pushed himself into contention before.


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## Streathamite (Jun 7, 2011)

mrkikiet said:


> favourable conditions.
> 
> and why is his test career currently so short? because he is a slightly above average county bowler who hasn't pushed himself into contention before.


might that not be down to the selectors as well as tremlett. They're fallible too.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 7, 2011)

Graeme Swann was a couple of months shy of his 30th birthday when he made his test debut.


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## mrkikiet (Jun 7, 2011)

Spinners mature later...

I have seen Tremlett bowl a couple of times in county cricket and thought he was decidedly average, worse than many of his Surrey colleagues, he is yet to fully convince me as an international cricketer.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 7, 2011)

Ok, Stuart Clark for Australia, then. He made his debut aged over 30 and had a tremendous first two years at test level.

Ryan Sidebottom had a period when he was very effective. He's a very good example of a seamer who matured later.


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## mrkikiet (Jun 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ok, Stuart Clark for Australia, then. He made his debut aged over 30 and had a tremendous first two years at test level.
> 
> Ryan Sidebottom had a period when he was very effective. He's a very good example of a seamer who matured later.



Let's come back to this in December 2012. I will knock off his initial test matches in '07 as him being picked too early. I don't think he will still be playing for England then and will have gone back to being a slightly above average coutny bowler, having not done much in the test arena.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 7, 2011)

OK 

Thing is, it's not just his stats that have impressed me, it's his performances. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that he bowled like Joel Garner at times in Australia.


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## DrRingDing (Jun 7, 2011)

Vaughan is really starting to grate.


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## Streathamite (Jun 7, 2011)

Decent start by England, and gthank fuck KP's back amongst the runs


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## Idaho (Jun 7, 2011)

There isn't that much difference between being a great bowler and being an ordinary one. Just slight improvements in pace, control and tactics.


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## Santino (Jun 7, 2011)

Hopefully England will push on after lunch and ideally declare before tea to give themselves 20 minutes at the openers. Unlikely though. Maybe if KP goes mental in a bit.


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## Barking_Mad (Jun 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ok, Stuart Clark for Australia, then. He made his debut aged over 30 and had a tremendous first two years at test level.
> 
> Ryan Sidebottom had a period when he was very effective. He's a very good example of a seamer who matured later.


 
Sidebottom was ignored for large parts of his career based on his early few performances which top be fair, weren't that good. But speak to any Yorkshire player and later Notts fan before he was picked and he was as good as anyone.

502 wickets at 25.49 and at 2.80 runs an over is excellent bowling. Shame it took the selectors so long to notice.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 7, 2011)

does anyone know how many consecutive times cook has reached 50 now?
e2a; it's for a cricketing trivia quiz, with a modest wager attached


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jun 7, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> does anyone know how many consecutive times cook has reached 50 now?
> e2a; it's for a cricketing trivia quiz, with a modest wager attached



Only last 5 innings

82, 189, 133, 96, 97*


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jun 7, 2011)

Barking_Mad said:


> Only last 5 innings
> 
> 82, 189, 133, 96, 97*


 
Shame he messed up at 96, because im sure only few batsmen have made 4 consecutive hundreds.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 7, 2011)

Barking_Mad said:


> Only last 5 innings
> 
> 82, 189, 133, 96, 97*


cheers BM!


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jun 7, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> cheers BM!


 
You can see his career innings list here

CricInfo's StatsGuru lets you search for some really interesting stuff once you work out how to use it. Not that i found those Cook stats using this, they are available from his profile.


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## mrkikiet (Jun 7, 2011)

Tremlett is bowling like Garner in his prime here.


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## Barking_Mad (Jun 7, 2011)

Prior run out and ends up breaking dressing room window. ECB explanation:



> "There were bats resting on the window pane. Matt Prior threw a glove into a kit bag. The glove then ricocheted into bat resting on window pan, and this broke the glass. A female spectator suffered a small cut to her ankle, it was an acciden...t and Matt Prior has apologised."



Prior apologising. Captions please


----------



## embree (Jun 7, 2011)

I went to watch Essex v Glos at Ilford years ago. Nasser Hussain was out cheaply and stomped off back to the dressing room. Notorious for his tantrums, an Essex member said summat like 'listen to this' and from within the pavilion there came an almighty crash 

Anyway, just been playing with the ICC tables - a 2-0 series win for England sees us level on points with South Africa in second (not sure how they split teams on equal points). Should India win their upcoming series in the West Indies 3-0 it doesn't improve their rating at all! Not sure what happens with the England - India series, it's not on the predictor thingy yet


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jun 7, 2011)

Program about depression in cricket tonight on BBCR5, will be interesting to hear from Hoggy and Trescothick

7.30pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011lvqc


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 7, 2011)

Mahela's intentions are very clear here. Should be a draw and I hope it is now.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 7, 2011)

Barking_Mad said:


> Prior apologising. Captions please


"No, there's no racism amongst us south african whites, these days - but some of those kaffirs, they've got ones THAT big!"


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 7, 2011)

I like the way Strauss is wringing his hands in that pic


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 7, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> I like the way Strauss is wringing his hands in that pic


 
Made me chuckle.


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 8, 2011)

embree said:


> Anyway, just been playing with the ICC tables - a 2-0 series win for England sees us level on points with South Africa in second (not sure how they split teams on equal points). Should India win their upcoming series in the West Indies 3-0 it doesn't improve their rating at all! Not sure what happens with the England - India series, it's not on the predictor thingy yet



The worlds best team should always be clear.. the West Indies then Australia.. if it's that close there isn't a number 1 team..

India have an aging batting line up (Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman, Tendulkar) and 2 bowlers
South Africa have a brittle (some very hit and miss players) batting line up and brittle mentality and no proven spin bowlers
England haven't run through either of these teams.

Australia remained number 1 for longer than they were based on old results with a team that wasn't still playing..

Even if England demolish India later in the summer, I'm not sure what it proves? That they got taken apart by the bowling of Pakistan last summer says much more..


----------



## Idaho (Jun 8, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> The worlds best team should always be clear.. the West Indies then Australia.. if it's that close there isn't a number 1 team..
> 
> India have an aging batting line up (Dravid, Sehwag, Laxman, Tendulkar) and 2 bowlers
> South Africa have a brittle (some very hit and miss players) batting line up and brittle mentality and no proven spin bowlers
> ...


 
There's no pleasing some people.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 8, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> Even if England demolish India later in the summer, I'm not sure what it proves? That they got taken apart by the bowling of Pakistan last summer says much more..


 
They still beat Pakistan, of course, because Pakistan's batting and catching were so awful, but I do agree with this. It's the reason I was so upset that Amir was involved in the match-fixing - he is a bowler with star quality of the kind that is horribly thin on the ground at the moment. Cook et al are filling their boots against a very ordinary Sri Lanka bowling attack - Boycott had it right when he described them as county-standard. In the winter against Aus, they scored against a pretty poor pace attack and a laughable selection of spinners. Bowling in world cricket at the moment is at a very low ebb. I can only hope that changes soon - I'd rather see a great Sri Lankan bowling attack beat England than England beat a Sri Lanka team with a weak set of bowlers. Always.


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## mrkikiet (Jun 16, 2011)

Warne sounds the same but definitely doesn't look the same.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 16, 2011)

Not only is Broad not dropped, but he is still given the new ball. 

I continue to be mystified.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not only is Broad not dropped, but he is still given the new ball.
> 
> I continue to be mystified.


 
I can't imagine he's a particularly positive character to have on the team.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 16, 2011)

3/29 

Bowler O M R W 
*Anderson 9.0 3 12 2 * 
Broad 4.0 0 11 0 
Tremlett 5.0 3 5 1


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 16, 2011)

Welcome back Jimmy


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 16, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> Welcome back Jimmy


 
....and look out the Indians


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 16, 2011)

He's now England's most important player, Anderson. Even more important than Swann.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 16, 2011)

That bloody rain.
75-4 only makes you think of what Jimmy and Tremlett coulda done, given a full day. decent weather for the rst of this, and I reckon it's England's for the taking. I REALLY can't see their bowling attack tearing England completely apart - there's too much strength in depth
e2a; 81-4, my bad.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 16, 2011)

I love watching a hostile spell from the big lads, like Flintoff at his best, proper 'chin music'  

Bowling absolutely fascinates me, it's such a dark, mysterious art. Esoteric.  Test cricket one of mankind's greatest ever inventions, that's a fact.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 16, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> I love watching a hostile spell from the big lads, like Flintoff at his best, proper 'chin music'
> 
> Bowling absolutely fascinates me, it's such a dark, mysterious art. Esoteric.  Test cricket one of mankind's greatest ever inventions, that's a fact.


 
*DrRingDing approves of this post*


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## Idaho (Jun 17, 2011)

I really only like watching England bowl. I watch the batting, mostly nervously waiting for collapse, but I it's watching our side bowl that's the highlight.

The movement on that ball yesterday was crazy. Some of them were snaking from side to side when they got to (past) Prior.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 17, 2011)

Idaho said:


> I watch the batting, mostly nervously waiting for collapse,


Have you seen the scores the batting order has racked up over the past few tests? 517-1, 620-5, 513, 644, 496-5, 486-5, and you're waitinhg for a _collapse?_
this is the best england batting order of my lifetime - you're better off waiting for a donkey to win the Derby, than for a collapse.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 17, 2011)

And oh great, it's bloody pissing it down in Southampton


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 17, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Have you seen the scores the batting order has racked up over the past few tests? 517-1, 620-5, 513, 644, 496-5, 486-5, and you're waitinhg for a _collapse?_
> this is the best england batting order of my lifetime - you're better off waiting for a donkey to win the Derby, than for a collapse.


 
It'll come. Probably this summer at some point.


----------



## Idaho (Jun 17, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Have you seen the scores the batting order has racked up over the past few tests? 517-1, 620-5, 513, 644, 496-5, 486-5, and you're waitinhg for a _collapse?_
> this is the best england batting order of my lifetime - you're better off waiting for a donkey to win the Derby, than for a collapse.


 
Yeah well, I've been watching England batting collapses for 20 years. It takes more than a year to overcome the feeling of impending doom intrinsic to watching them take guard.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 17, 2011)

Zaheer Khan will provide the real test this summer. Like Amir and Asif last year, he may find one or two batsmen out. Very sadly, sans Murali and Malinga, Sri Lanka do not provide such an examination.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 17, 2011)

Brainless now from England. Broad banging it in short. 

And now Broad has bowled more overs than Tremlett. Work that out.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 17, 2011)

if it wasn't for that rain we'd have pissed all over them by now. Like LBJ said, their attack's toothless, and tremlett actually duffed them when the raingod allowed him to.


----------



## mattie (Jun 17, 2011)

What's the chance of some more play today?  TMS are generally the best judge, but can't get it at work.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 17, 2011)

TMS is now off air.


----------



## mattie (Jun 17, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> TMS is now off air.


 
For how long?

This is a disaster.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 17, 2011)

Till tomorrow, I'm guessing. They said that they had 'taken a view' on it. IE they expect it to continue pissing down.


----------



## mattie (Jun 17, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Till tomorrow, I'm guessing. They said that they had 'taken a view' on it. IE they expect it to continue pissing down.


 
Christ, for a few moments that felt like a bereavement.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 17, 2011)

you'd have hoped that the one good thing about having a Test in bloody Southampton would be good, sunny, rain-free cricketing weather.
bloody english weather


----------



## DrRingDing (Jun 17, 2011)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/11?area=Southampton

The weather's not looking too cracky for the rest of the weekend either.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 17, 2011)

oh great - we might as well be having the bloody test in the hebrides


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 18, 2011)

Does Broad play for England or does England play for Broad?


----------



## gabi (Jun 18, 2011)

Ok hotshots, anyone think this is gonna be a draw? I took a hefty hefty bet at 2-1 that it would be about 8 rain breaks ago.


----------



## Idaho (Jun 18, 2011)

gabi said:


> Ok hotshots, anyone think this is gonna be a draw? I took a hefty hefty bet at 2-1 that it would be about 8 rain breaks ago.


 
I wouldn't want to make or take that bet. You can't rely on the weather to rain off the next two days. Might get two full day's play with England setting them 250 on the last day.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 18, 2011)

It probably will be a draw. If the odds were 2:1 against, that's a good bet.


----------



## gabi (Jun 18, 2011)

It's still 1.4 on a draw..

which if i had any more money i'd be piling on. ive been proven very very wrong in the past on these issues tho


----------



## gabi (Jun 18, 2011)

wtf is with warney's eyebrows btw? jesus.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 18, 2011)

Not seen them, but he's got a new filmstar girlfriend hasn't he? A man in his 40s with a glamorous new woman. Bound to start doing funny things.


----------



## gabi (Jun 18, 2011)

http://www.silversportz.co.uk/

^^ very good sky link. fascinating face off between him and athers just now over IPL.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 18, 2011)

Shane Warne likes thin crust pizza


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 18, 2011)

Let's hope Nasser Hussain doesn't do his usual commentator's curse thing before the end of play...

Go on Kev! Av it!


----------



## gabi (Jun 18, 2011)

odds are changing quickly on the betting sites. altho it's still very much in favour of a draw.

england win = 2.25, draw 1.53


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 18, 2011)

Go on Jimmy!! Nightwatchman legend.

And remember the desperate last stand of Jimmy and Monty (whenever that was) - Jimmy's a dude. Always well up for getting stuck in, the sort of chap you'd want on your side in a pub fight!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 18, 2011)

gabi said:


> odds are changing quickly on the betting sites. altho it's still very much in favour of a draw.
> 
> england win = 2.25, draw 1.53


 
Pietersen's innings might have changed things. England have a lead already with power to add. The forecast for Monday is bad, though.


----------



## strung out (Jun 18, 2011)

using a nightwatchman is fucking pointless.


----------



## gabi (Jun 18, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Pietersen's innings might have changed things. England have a lead already with power to add. The forecast for Monday is bad, though.


 
Odds on a draw got stronger once KP went... praying for rain and lots of it on monday. england will bat at least two sessions tomorrow, strauss doesn't like a risky declaration. he might even bat all day..


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 18, 2011)

Fine innings by KP, that. Full of authority and made the SL bowlers look like pie-throwers. Very impressive.


----------



## gabi (Jun 18, 2011)

Poor dismissal tho. blatantly seeing his century coming before stumps.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 18, 2011)

don 't care. good effort all round.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 18, 2011)

gabi said:


> Poor dismissal tho. blatantly seeing his century coming before stumps.


 
Probably, yes. But we're back to the old criticisms of Pietersen with that - why did you throw it away on 90 or whatever? Far better than the recent criticisms of him.

I think we can say with some confidence that his bad run of form is at an end.


----------



## gabi (Jun 19, 2011)

It had better rain like hell tomorrow... or else im seriously outta pocket...!

Great day's cricket by the looks today


----------



## embree (Jun 20, 2011)

Ian Bell:

Series average: 335
Test average in 2011: 233
Test average since being dropped in 2009: 69.04
Test average since Durban 2009: 91.46
Test average since Bangladesh tour spring 2010: 106.60

Overall - over 4500 Test runs, average 47 with 14 centuries

I dare anyone to come on and say they still don't like him. England's best batsman and that includes Cook and Trott


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't like him.. 

Never have never will, which isn't to say he doesn't bat well but watching him bat with Collingwood was a cue for the stands to empty and go and get a drink.. dull, bland and too much of the Alec Stewart professional dullness approach to cricket.

He was picked over Thorpe (Surrey) who had a proven record against high class bowlers in 2005 and stuck with despite failing in that series (Bopara was dropped for example in 2009) and he continued to under-perform against comparatively weak international attacks.. that he's made runs against Bangladesh, a weak Australia and a weak Sri Lanka is meaningless. Anyone given a run of 60 tests or however many he's had, should score runs.. 

He may technically be England's best batsman but that doesn't make him England's best batsman.

He's dull and should be dropped..

(proviso I was travelling and missed the century yesterday)


----------



## gabi (Jun 20, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> I don't like him..
> 
> Never have never will, which isn't to say he doesn't bat well but watching him bat with Collingwood was a cue for the stands to empty and go and get a drink.. dull, bland and too much of the Alec Stewart professional dullness approach to cricket.
> 
> ...


 
Dull??! Have u ever endured a Trott innings? Bell is Lara-esque in comparison... 

He's actually quite enjoyable to watch these days imo


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 20, 2011)

gabi said:


> Dull??! Have u ever endured a Trott innings? Bell is Lara-esque in comparison...
> 
> He's actually quite enjoyable to watch these days imo



Yes. Dull. 

Can't think of a single highlight of his career, any significant innings.. not one, in all those tests, but you can remember innings or even shots by everyone else in Englands top 6.. so yes, Dull Dull Dull..

Manufactured, coached, professional and dull.


----------



## Santino (Jun 20, 2011)

Some people aren't happy unless they're miserable.


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 20, 2011)

Really? Like a lot of people I find him dull.. he empties stands when he bats and not the other way round. 

Name a career highlight from him? Double century against Bangladesh? Pfft..


----------



## Santino (Jun 20, 2011)

No, I'm not going to play that game. Whatever I might suggest you'll just say 'That was shit' or 'He batted too slowly' or 'He shouldn't have got out' or simply 'I don't remember that thereby PROVING you are wrong'.


----------



## gabi (Jun 20, 2011)

I'd say his second innings at Lords last week was pretty entertaining.

in fact his century yesterday was quite good.. he's english, so is always going to be a backfoot player. but he does it well.


----------



## gabi (Jun 20, 2011)

btw.. warney's new face. atherton can't even look at him when they're in the studio together. the contrast is comedy gold.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2011)

gabi said:


> btw.. warney's new face. atherton can't even look at him when they're in the studio together. the contrast is comedy gold.


 
He looks weird now doesn't he. You could see him becoming one of those people who gets addicted to too much plastic surgery and ends up looking like a proper freak. 

He's still the most entertaining of the commentators though IMO.


----------



## gabi (Jun 20, 2011)

Russell Arnold's entertaining for all the wrong reasons. he doesnt seem to know anything about cricket. yesterday insisting anderson should play himself in, much to michael holding's amazement. 

'he's a nightwatchman'

'you've got a bowler's mind, you weren't a batsman'

'he's a bowler'



amongst many other hilarious misunderstandings of the basics of cricket.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 20, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> Never have never will, which isn't to say he doesn't bat well but watching him bat with Collingwood was a cue for the stands to empty and go and get a drink.. dull, bland and too much of the Alec Stewart professional dullness approach to cricket.



I remember watching him and Collingwood bat together. What I remember about it is the contrast. Even in form, Collingwood was an ugly batsman. Even when struggling, Bell is very easy to watch.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 20, 2011)

Berll is technically excellent too - a classical stroke-maker.


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 21, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Berll is technically excellent too - a classical stroke-maker.



No arguing with that.. nor the amount of runs he's made, but embrees 'dare you' to argue with his statistical argument needed a response. 

Is he better than an in-form KP or as innovative in hos stroke play as KP or Morgan (and therefore as interesting to watch)? Is he as gritty as Trott and Cook and made runs in the same circumstances as they did in the Ashes (yes - they had to get out first..)? Did he make 2 tons in the 2005 Ashes like Strauss or did he fold against a better standard of bowling than he faces now (and on pitches designed to last 5 days..)? All of these 5 have played major/memorable innings.. (albeit Morgan not in Tests yet).

If it's stats, well, last month, Broad was in the top 10 ranked test bowlers in the world. Stuart Broad ffs! With an almost 70 ball strike rate (Steyn is around 40).

Most of the current top 10 bowlers in the world (excluding Anderson and Swann) have bowling averages over 30.. top of the list is Steyn. Otherwise, there is Morkel, Zaheer Khan, Vettori, Mitchell J (yes really), Bollinger (Bollinger ffs!), Harbajan Singh and Shakib Al Hasan.. it is a good time to be a batsman.

The attack when Bell made his ton was described by Simon Hughes as 





> The Sri Lankan bowling attack, only county second division at best, was reduced to benefit match standard yesterday, as a half-fit Fernando hobbled in off a 10 pace run up, and the other wearying bowlers sent down deliveries with low, tilted actions that never swung or seamed.



Probably enough on the subj. from me.


----------



## gabi (Jun 21, 2011)

I dont remember a single one of Trott's innings, largely because the radio/TV goes off as soon as he starts his ridiculous taking guard routine. 

Bell's hyperactive at the crease, and plays beautifully nowadays... no idea why anyone wouldn't find it enjoyable to watch but each to their own.

Agreed on the bowling front though - the most exciting young bowler in world cricket's been banned, and i spose rightly so, but i think his age should have been taken into consideration.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 21, 2011)

gabi said:


> I dont remember a single one of Trott's innings, largely because the radio/TV goes off as soon as he starts his ridiculous taking guard routine.
> 
> Bell's hyperactive at the crease, and plays beautifully nowadays... no idea why anyone wouldn't find it enjoyable to watch but each to their own.
> 
> Agreed on the bowling front though - the most exciting young bowler in world cricket's been banned, and i spose rightly so, but i think his age should have been taken into consideration.


 
Yeah, I really hope Amir gets rehabilitated back into the game, cos he's fucking awesome. Major talent. The lad had no chance with all them sharks circling him, it's disgraceful what's happened to him.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 21, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> Yeah, I really hope Amir gets rehabilitated back into the game, cos he's fucking awesome. Major talent. The lad had no chance with all them sharks circling him, it's disgraceful what's happened to him.


agreed, but he really did dig his own grave. bet the silly lad's regretting ever setting eyes on the bookmakers who bribed him now.


----------



## Santino (Jun 28, 2011)

Some kind of one-day match on at the Oval.


----------



## gabi (Jun 28, 2011)

The sky here in london feels somewhat apocalyptic. not sure how much play they'll get


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 28, 2011)

Oh well, I'm sure there'll be another one soon. Assuming they're sticking with their recent pattern of playing so many one-dayers it's not humanly possible to care any more.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 28, 2011)

35-1, rain stopped play, I so doubt this one will go to completion


----------



## Santino (Jun 28, 2011)

Meanwhile East India are 13-2 against West India.


----------



## embree (Jun 28, 2011)

Just popping by to say PaulHackett's views on Ian Bell are priceless


----------



## strung out (Jun 28, 2011)

good to see that the ICC have seen sense and extended the 2015 world cup to 14 teams.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2011)

Sri Lanka are getting severely mauled in the first ODI as we speak, they're on 15-4


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 28, 2011)

67-7!! Jimmy's on fire


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 28, 2011)

99-8, bowlers doing brilliantly (except Broad - again), and god sri Lanka look weak


----------



## strung out (Jun 28, 2011)

dernbach a bit of a wanker though. suppose he does play for surrey.


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 28, 2011)

we win! by 110 runs, but fuck we made heavy weather of it at the end


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 28, 2011)

Dernbach and Broad need a good lecture about stuff.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 29, 2011)

What does urbanz crickit massiv think of Jade Dernbach? He's called Jade and he's over-tattooed but aside from that I'm reserving judgement for the moment.


----------



## strung out (Jun 29, 2011)

acted like a dickhead today from what i hear. plays for surrey though, so the establishment loves him.


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 29, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> What does urbanz crickit massiv think of Jade Dernbach? He's called Jade and he's over-tattooed but aside from that I'm reserving judgement for the moment.





paulhackett said:


> There was a 'who do you think is the best...' by Wisden and his name came up. He maybe benefited from having Tremlett at the other end..



And he he has the best range and best disguised slow and slower balls in the country.. piece in the Sunday Times on him at the weekend.

Why are you asking and then reserving judgement? What do you think?


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 29, 2011)

embree said:


> Just popping by to say PaulHackett's views on Ian Bell are priceless



Did anyone else notice at Sydney, 10 players formed a huddle when England won and one went to grab a stump before joining the huddle.. Bell. The scrote. He should have been dropped for that alone.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 1, 2011)

Chasing a big score and Trott and Cook batting...


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 1, 2011)

They've made a reasonable start.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 1, 2011)

Let's see what Pietersen can do. For once I want him to come out and play his usual game.


----------



## gabi (Jul 4, 2011)

So - nice little kick in the teeth for the poms there by Sri Lanka, how fucking patronising is that. Refusing easy runs from one end so one dude can make his century. love it.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 4, 2011)

Anyone know if this is true (why Broad got fined)? 





> Broad apparently said to BB, 'either pull your finger out or pull your head in. We cant have both lying idle'.


----------



## gabi (Jul 4, 2011)

i dont think stuart broad's capable of such a pithy comment (check out his twitter feed for an indication of the level of intellect we're talking here)


----------



## strung out (Jul 4, 2011)

i had to stop following all the england cricketers on twitter because they were all so banal and/or idiotic. apart from graham swann who just comes across as a smug knob.


----------



## gabi (Jul 4, 2011)

me too. i followed em during the ashes... jimmy anderson's was the absolute dumbest...

actually, KP's was the worst. the worst fucking name dropper in the business.


----------



## embree (Jul 4, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Did anyone else notice at Sydney, 10 players formed a huddle when England won and one went to grab a stump before joining the huddle.. Bell. The scrote. He should have been dropped for that alone.


 


Keep em coming please


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 4, 2011)

embree said:


> Keep em coming please



From Cricket with Balls..



> Why Ian Bell has never actually ended up naked in a bird cage no one knows, but he does often bat for England. Occasionally at number 6 and frequently against Bangladesh Ian Bell looks like he is the perfect test batting machine. Mostly he looks like he has forgotten his pin while standing at the ATM. His 30 odds are made with calm and class, as is his walk from the field shortly after. Watching him can be a maternal moment for most people as we just want to take him and give him a hug, or choke him to death and throw him into a lake.


----------



## Santino (Jul 6, 2011)

Sri Lanka 11-3


----------



## strung out (Jul 6, 2011)

looking good so far!


----------



## embree (Jul 6, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> From Cricket with Balls..


 
Test average over the last 18 months: 88

End of discussion xx


----------



## strung out (Jul 6, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> From Cricket with Balls..


 
you do realise the bloke who wrote that is an aussie? of course he's going to slag Bell off.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 6, 2011)

We'd better square the series here!


----------



## agricola (Jul 6, 2011)

Best quote ever, via the Guardian:




			
				Kumar Sangakkara said:
			
		

> I feel something hit my shoulder and it goes numb. I know I had been hit, but I was just relieved and praying I was not going to be hit in the head. Tharanga Paranvithana, on his debut tour, is also next to me. He stands up, bullets flying all around him, shouting 'I have been hit' as he holds his blood-soaked chest. He collapsed on to his seat, apparently unconscious.
> 
> I see him and I think: 'Oh my God, you were out first ball, run out the next innings and now you have been shot. What a terrible first tour."



Full speech - http://www.lords.org/latest-news/news-archive/sangakkara-delivers-cowdrey-lecture,2024,NS.html

 

edit:  the whole speech is well worth a listen, if you have a spare hour and a bit


----------



## strung out (Jul 6, 2011)

good to see england don't indulge in any of this nonsense of playing for hundreds (except in test matches in cardiff)


----------



## embree (Jul 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> you do realise the bloke who wrote that is an aussie? of course he's going to slag Bell off.


 
it was also written in October 2010, just before Bell averaged 65 against Australia, in Australia.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Test average over the last 18 months: 88
> 
> End of discussion xx



You've made the same point twice (listing a batting average as all encompassing proof), which as you asked someone to argue against it, doesn't add up to much of a discussion..

And added nothing else, certainly no counter to who he made those runs against or what that average would be if you removed the poor bowling attacks he faced? It's not just about averages or else Trott would be the greatest English Test batsman ever..

As for JRod.. when he wrote the piece is irrelevant as his being a London-based Australian. Why does it matter where he's from? He's the current editor of Spin, contributor to Test Match Sofa etc, so, and here is the point of quoting him, now a slightly more significant commentator than he was at the time he wrote that..

Bells average against Australia? 32.36
Bells average against Australia with Warne/McGrath 19.69

Statistically adds up to not very good at all.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 6, 2011)

ach, so what. He's a better player now than he was. Mike Gatting had an appalling first 20 tests or so. He then clicked at test level and averaged far higher. You can't argue with Bell's recent numbers. You really can't - they're not even marginally questionable. And not only are his recent numbers brilliant, but he's scored those runs with a considerable amount of style. He's the closest England have to a Jayawardene-style classy batsman.


----------



## embree (Jul 6, 2011)

The discussion being that over the last two years he's been brilliant against all comers in Test cricket.

Hardly a compelling argument for dropping him eh

As for the 'poor bowling attacks', don't be daft. Same attacks everyone's facing atm and he's doing better than most.

Really, your argument is shit and non existent in the face of his two year long run of form since he returned to the side. Just because he was picked instead of Ramprakash


----------



## strung out (Jul 9, 2011)

great result today, and in the whole one day series generally. nice to finally get a close finish in the one-dayers!


----------



## Idaho (Jul 10, 2011)

Good that Broad was dropped too.

So what's everyone's squad for the first test against India?

Mine:

Strauss
Cook
Trott
Pieterson
Bell
Prior
Bresnan
Swann
Anderson
Tremlett
Finn

Yeah, yeah - I know they won't ever pick 5 bowlers - but what's the point of having "the best batting lineup for decades" if you don't take the opportunity to balance the side?


----------



## strung out (Jul 10, 2011)

balanced side is 4 bowlers and 6 batsmen


----------



## embree (Jul 10, 2011)

strung out said:


> balanced side is 4 bowlers and 6 batsmen


 
Quite right

Meanwhile, Graeme Swann is the new world number 1 ODI bowler, to go alongside his number 2 Test ranking:

ODI:
*1 	707 	G.P. Swann 	ENG*
2 	701 	D.L. Vettori 	NZ
3 	678 	R.W. Price 	ZIM
4 	673 	Saeed Ajmal 	PAK
5 	663 	D.W. Steyn 	SA
6 	661 	M. Morkel 	SA
7 	654 	M.G. Johnson 	AUS
8 	652 	L.L. Tsotsobe 	SA
9 	641 	Harbhajan Singh 	IND
10 	636 	Abdur Razzak   BAN

Test:
1 	899 	D.W. Steyn 	SA
*2 	797 	G.P. Swann 	ENG*
*3 	781 	J.M. Anderson 	ENG*
4 	751 	M. Morkel 	SA
5 	727 	M.G. Johnson 	AUS
6 	726 	Zaheer Khan 	IND
7 	677 	Harbhajan Singh 	IND
8 	671 	I. Sharma 	IND
9 	648 	Shakib Al Hasan 	BAN
10 	623 	D.L. Vettori   NZ

West Indies held on for a draw in the final Test against India in Dominica, meaning that India remain at the top of the Test Championship, but lose two points after a 1-0 series win. That leaves them 10 points ahead of England


----------



## Idaho (Jul 11, 2011)

strung out said:


> balanced side is 4 bowlers and 6 batsmen


 
I think it's best to play the maximum 11 players. I know it's very sporting to take the to the field with 10, but hey, that's the modern game.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 11, 2011)

Any list that has Johnson as the 5th best test bowler in the world at the moment can't be taken seriously.


----------



## Santino (Jul 11, 2011)

Will England ever uncover a decent wicket-keeper/bowler all-rounder?


----------



## gabi (Jul 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Will England ever uncover a decent wicket-keeper/bowler all-rounder?


 
im sure they're scouring the highveld right now


----------



## Idaho (Jul 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Will England ever uncover a decent wicket-keeper/bowler all-rounder?


 
I think it's a bit of a tall order expecting a wicket-keeper to throw down a few overs.

Personally I think Prior is alright. 

I've never been fond of batsmen who fill in a bit with a few overs. I have always preferred bowlers who can hang around a bit and get a few extra runs.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 11, 2011)

Idaho said:


> I think it's a bit of a tall order expecting a wicket-keeper to throw down a few overs.
> 
> Personally I think Prior is alright.
> 
> I've never been fond of batsmen who fill in a bit with a few overs. I have always preferred bowlers who can hang around a bit and get a few extra runs.



There's only Sangakarra who has a better batting record than Prior amongst international wicketkeepers? And his keeping is fine.  

A bowling all-rounder would be nice but there aren't many around who are genuinely test class at both. Kallis? Who else? We had Flintoff for ages and he was never that great at either if you're honest.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 11, 2011)

embree said:


> Test average over the last 18 months: 88
> 
> End of discussion xx



You've made this point twice as if statistics are the be all and end all.. is that your only frame of reference?



embree said:


> The discussion being that over the last two years he's been brilliant against all comers in Test cricket.
> 
> Hardly a compelling argument for dropping him eh
> 
> ...



How is the point 'shit'? It's definitely boring but it's hardly shit.. You've only rolled off a stat?

The point that he failed against bowlers considered all time greats? Do you think he has done well against bowlers of the same class as McGrath, Warne, Lee, Murali, Vaas, Malinga, Asif, Shoaib, Saqlain, Kumble, Bond, Steyn, Ntini, Pollock, Bond..? Do you think he would have thrived a few years earlier when you could add Wasim, Waqar, Walsh, Ambrose to the list? 

How do you think he would have done in the 70s and 80s?



embree said:


> Quite right
> 
> Meanwhile, Graeme Swann is the new world number 1 ODI bowler, to go alongside his number 2 Test ranking:
> 
> ...



And then you list the 'top' bowlers of today.. Sharma based on one series against the WI, Shakib? Really? Vettori is only there because of retirements. What's Johnson doing on the list?

10 points.. pfft.

Anyway a proper Test series coming up at last. Still think India's batting will look brittle for a while when VVS, Tendulkar, Dravid retire, which they must do soon.. Kohli etc. hardly put an argument up in the WI.

Looking forward to this.. and to see how Zaheer, Harbajhan etc. go..

Oh and same team as last test, Bresnan in for Broad for me..


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 11, 2011)

England to win two one i reckon. Of the two bowling attacks, assuming broad is dropped, I'd only take zaheer from India.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> England to win two one i reckon. Of the two bowling attacks, assuming broad is dropped, I'd only take zaheer from India.



Swann over Harbajhan? That's a toin coss isn't it?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 11, 2011)

Ave 27 vs 31


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ave 27 vs 31


----------



## embree (Jul 11, 2011)

How Bell would have done in the 70s or 80s is neither here nor there you weirdo

It's this sort of inanity that makes you not even worth engaging with


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 11, 2011)

embree said:


> How Bell would have done in the 70s or 80s is neither here nor there you weirdo
> 
> It's this sort of inanity that makes you not even worth engaging with



Oh good.. thanks for confirming you have no frame of reference just meaningless malleable statistics. 

Never mind the 70s or 80s or even the 90s, you can't compare the bowlers you listed with those 5 or 10 years ago? When Bell was playing Test cricket? Really? You couldn't come up with a single memorable innings by him. Really?

It's neither here nor there to me if you like Bell or if he's good or not, but there's no point in you stating opinion as fact, 'dare' people to argue, if you're not prepared (or it seems able) to respond. This is a discussion forum after all.. the short answer would have been your opinion was 'shit'. Go read some Haigh, Frith, Gibson, Cardus, Woodcock, James or anyone.. go watch the rodelinda youtube channel.. seriously. 

Comparing players through the ages has always been a part of the game and its' writing.. or even on this thread when LBJ says "_Thing is, it's not just his stats that have impressed me, it's his performances. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that he bowled like Joel Garner at times in Australia_."


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 12, 2011)

paulhackett said:


>


 
You do know that in a game of cricket, you win by taking 20 wickets and scoring more runs than the opposition, don't you? 

Averages matter.

Dale Steyn is the best bowler in the world at the moment by some distance. And his average is considerably better than anyone else's - he compares well with the greats of the past, and his average compares well with their averages.


Also, in terms of Harbhajan vs Swann, Swann doesn't have a doosra, but he is the bigger spinner of the ball. I can't think if another finger spinner that I've ever seen spin it as much as Swann.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 12, 2011)

I have a feeling we will brush aside India. They hardly set the Caribbean alight with a series of draws. Would like to see Onions bowling again. Especially in flatter conditions, should the summer dry up.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 12, 2011)

Yep. I'd like to see Onions back. Broad should be dropped - and might actually be dropped this time - and Bresnan is likely to replace him, but I'm still not convinced Bresnan is a test-standard bowler, despite his performances in the winter. 

Onions has been very unlucky, I think. I'm not quite sure why he wasn't brought straight back in once he'd proved his fitness this season. Not in the favoured circle clearly.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 12, 2011)

I don't think there is a conspiracy. I just think a player on the fringes of the England set-up won't every get to walk back in when they recover from injury. There will be an expectation that they recover fitness and then once again show form with their county. Ask me a year ago and I would definately have favoured Onions over Bresnan. However I think Bresnan has improved a fair bit.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 12, 2011)

I don't see it as a conspiracy, but I do see favouritism.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 12, 2011)

I think that such 'favouritism' is inevitable. The selectors need to have a basic team in mind each time they begin their process. They say to themselves, this is the basic squad, do we have any compelling reason to change it?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 12, 2011)

Idaho said:


> I think that such 'favouritism' is inevitable. The selectors need to have a basic team in mind each time they begin their process. They say to themselves, this is the basic squad, do we have any compelling reason to change it?



It's fairly openly their deliberate policy isn't it? Try and have a team that develops together and not fuck around with it too much. 

I think it's a sensible approach on the whole. Certainly preferable to the 25 players a series approach England used to take. Maybe sometime it's taken a bit too far mind.


----------



## Santino (Jul 12, 2011)

There're also considerations that are not evident to spectators and fans. For example, Collingwood was given a lot of leeway when in poor form because of the general positive effect he had on the rest of the team. I'm sure other players have been dropped (or not selected) because they just don't get on with others in the team. It's hard to overestimate the importance of a team's mood in playing well.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 12, 2011)

"What does he bring to the table other than runs?"

The best players need to be accommodated, imo. The above was said about Graham Thorpe, England's best batsman at the time, by a selector. It was a bloody stupid comment.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 12, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You do know that in a game of cricket, you win by taking 20 wickets and scoring more runs than the opposition, don't you?
> 
> Averages matter.
> 
> ...



The smileys were aimed at me.. 

I agree, of course, Steyn more than compares well with players from the past and yes averages matter. 

But averages wouldn't have got Trecosthick picked (old example) and the ICC ranking system was introduced (I thought) to account for opposition, pitch, game etc. so the greatest innings according to that system was Gooch 154* at Headingley against Walsh, Ambrose, Patterson, Marshall in 91 (and not Hayden hitting 380 against Bangladesh in Cairns).

Not kncking Swann either - can't wait to see how it all shapes up.


----------



## gabi (Jul 12, 2011)

Swann's a weird one for me - I appreciate he's good - but he's somehow not that enjoyable to watch for me. Lacks the elegance of Vettori or the showmanship of Warne, but yeh, gets the job done.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 12, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. I'd like to see Onions back. Broad should be dropped - and might actually be dropped this time - and Bresnan is likely to replace him, but I'm still not convinced Bresnan is a test-standard bowler, despite his performances in the winter.
> 
> Onions has been very unlucky, I think. I'm not quite sure why he wasn't brought straight back in once he'd proved his fitness this season. Not in the favoured circle clearly.


 
I was away for the Tests earlier in the summer, but wasn't there a question over Tremlett, Broad and Finn being too similar as an attack? I know Dernbach was brought in as 12th man but surely Onions is supposed to be the Anderson replacement? Unless they're looking for someone who offers more reverse swing?

I thought Onions was very highly rated by Strauss, Flower, Miller?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 13, 2011)

Nowt wrong with having two Andersons, particularly in England, and particularly when Tremlett is there to provide a different kind of test. But Onions is deceptively quick - he reaches 90 mph and is in fact quicker than Broad. I rate Finn more highly than Broad. I was very impressed by Finn when I saw him live last year, but he doesn't seem to get the same leeway as a young bowler that Broad has been given. 

Sorry, I know I bang on a bit about Broad, but his treatment does baffle me a bit. I don't hate him, I just think he should be dropped and told to prove himself at county level. He did well today for Notts - taking a load of wickets at county level might be just what he needs.

To go back to Steyn, I think the fact that he is the best bowler in the world at the moment by some distance is a huge problem. In times past there would have been half a dozen or more bowlers of his quality in world cricket. At the moment, there is just him. It's a huge problem for test cricket - the bowlers start the play and they set the standard at which the game will be played. Great bowlers against iffy batsmen can still be compelling viewing. The same is not true at all the other way round - it can be tedious in the extreme to watch great batsmen taking apart a poor bowling attack.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 13, 2011)

I think Broad was being groomed for the top job from a young age. He was given a lot of leeway, lots of media training, and this has culminated in the T20 captaincy. The belief must have been that he was an opening bowler who was potentially a decent batsman, and understood the game.

I don't believe he's lived up to this however. And unless he does something really meaningful this summer, or next winter, I think he'll be out of the running.

Opening the bowling with Tremlett and Anderson, then Finn and Onions as first change, with Swann to come on later. What an attack that would be! We wouldn't need more than 5 batsmen. We'd skittle sides for double figures on some wickets.


----------



## Santino (Jul 15, 2011)

Anyone going to see India warm up in Taunton?


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2011)

Excellent. A test match vs the Indians at HQ! Sometimes unemployment is a beautiful thing. Well it is if you've got Sky.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 21, 2011)

Idaho said:


> I think Broad was being groomed for the top job from a young age. He was given a lot of leeway, lots of media training, and this has culminated in the T20 captaincy. The belief must have been that he was an opening bowler who was potentially a decent batsman, and understood the game.



He's a spoilt brat.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> He's a spoilt brat.



innit. When he's on it he's awesome though. Stuck up little (big) fuck, yeah definitely!


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2011)

India to bowl.


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2011)

Is it wrong to hope that India get a couple of decent LBW appeals turned down and then they can't review it because the Indian Board didn't want to use technology?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

Santino said:


> Is it wrong to hope that India get a couple of decent LBW appeals turned down and then they can't review it because the Indian Board didn't want to use technology?


 
No.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

India looking good so far.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2011)

I wouldn't have picked Broad - I would have gone for Onions.

Good discussion on TMS about the greatest test ever I think I'd have agreed with Geoffrey and picked the Tied Test


----------



## gabi (Jul 21, 2011)

Strauss gone.

Was some almighty swing on display when I caught an hour or so earlier


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

gabi said:


> Strauss gone.
> 
> Was some almighty swing on display when I caught an hour or so earlier


 
Yep. 250 might be a good score on this.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2011)

What does the pitch look like? I missed the start and the pitch report


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

Looks fine, but as gabi said, there is plenty of swing. I suppose the danger is that it will become very good to bat on when the weather changes. England are in a bit of danger here.


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## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2011)

If it is doing a bit even more reason for Onions to have been picked.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2011)

Got the feeling it won't be too long before another England wicket falls.


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## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2011)

Pietersen's always sketchy and nervy to begin with


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

Kumar is doing what Asif did last year, perhaps doing too much to take wickets. Zaheer is playing the Amir role. A very similar attack in both style and quality. India have far better batsmen than Pakistan, though.


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2011)

Sounds like Zaheer might be fucked.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2011)

Terrible news for India if he is.
If it's serious I think that could swing the series England's way


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

Could be a decisive moment in the series if his hamstring's gone. Shame - I want to see the best players doing battle.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2011)

Yeah Zaheer was one of the highlight of the series for me


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2011)

Boycott talking about Katy Perry


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

Yep. Similarly I was really disappointed Malinga didn't play in the previous series. 

He's India's most important player in this series by some distance.


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2011)

Scyld Berry on Twitter: "If Zaheer's right hamstring proves a serious injury, it is inconceivable that India will win this series, or even share it..."


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

I'm inclined to agree. However, Kumar could just do a Terry Alderman here. Same type of bowler and ideally suited to English conditions. On a day when luck goes his way, he could take a bunch of wickets very quickly.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 21, 2011)

Anyone else listening to TMS? Boycott having a go at the bankers - "they should all be jailed"


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 21, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. Similarly I was really disappointed Malinga didn't play in the previous series.
> 
> He's India's most important player in this series by some distance.


 
 Malinga is Sri Lankan.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

Boycott is the only member of TMS to have officially come out against the Iraq War live on air.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Malinga is Sri Lankan.


 
To clarify, Zaheer is India's most important player. Or perhaps _was_ their most important player.


----------



## gabi (Jul 21, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Boycott is the only member of TMS to have officially come out against the Iraq War live on air.


 
Also the only one convicted of beating up his wife mind you


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

gabi said:


> Also the only one convicted of beating up his wife mind you


 
This is true. And he supported apartheid South Africa by accepting pots of cash to play there back in the day too. I find it hard to dislike him, though.


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2011)

I find it easy to dislike him, whether or not he is occasionally right about something.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 21, 2011)

Trott gets ANOTHER fifty. What did I tell y'all? Mr glued-to-the-crease, Mr bloody reliable. Hope Cook's dismissal doesn't mean his astonishing run of form has ended


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

He's doing well. Riding his luck this innings, mind.


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Trott gets ANOTHER fifty. What did I tell y'all? Mr glued-to-the-crease, Mr bloody reliable. Hope Cook's dismissal doesn't mean his astonishing run of form has ended


 
If you average over 60 there must be pressure to not let that average drop. I bet he doesn't start enjoying himself until he's on 70 or 80.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 21, 2011)

Santino said:


> I find it easy to dislike him, whether or not he is occasionally right about something.


 
Indeed.

Great batsman, total wanker, IMO.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 21, 2011)

Santino said:


> If you average over 60 there must be pressure to not let that average drop. I bet he doesn't start enjoying himself until he's on 70 or 80.


Trott doesn't strike me as the type who majors on 'enjoyment' tbh. far too grim and focussed


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2011)

Dressing room saying Zaheer had cramp, apparently. Good news if true, although it doesn't say much for his preparation or, dare I say, professionalism, to roll up for the biggest test series of the year so unfit. 

If the Indians have any sense, they'll strictly limit him to five-over spells from now on.


----------



## strung out (Jul 21, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Trott doesn't strike me as the type who majors on 'enjoyment' tbh. far too grim and focussed


 
ex-alcoholic. had to learn how to discipline himself.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> If it is doing a bit even more reason for Onions to have been pickled.




Edited for you


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2011)

Does anyone know how you pronounce "Scyld" (Berry)

Skilled? Sid?


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2011)

Like shilled, I think. More or less.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2011)

Santino said:


> Like shilled, I think. More or less.


 
Aaaargh! Not another Shill(ed)!! 

Cheers Santino. Do you read Wisden? I have you down as that sort in my files.


----------



## Santino (Jul 21, 2011)

I have one copy, from 2006. Just can't get into it.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2011)

Santino said:


> I have one copy, from 2006. Just can't get into it.



Strictly speaking that's a 'yes' then


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 22, 2011)

gabi said:


> Also the only one convicted of beating up his wife mind you



Not his wife.
She was awarded 1 franc in damages.
Boycott is a lover not a fighter (see the number of women who were prepared to testify for him).

Real shame if Zaheer is out. Seems v unprofessional if he is - was it January that was his last 1st game?


----------



## Santino (Jul 22, 2011)

Simon Hughes suggesting that Dhoni might have a bowl with Dravid keeping. Can't tell if he's joking or not.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

Having seen the highlights I think that was a very good toss for India to win.  I very much suspect that if England had been bowling they would have taken a few more wickets.  Conditions are only going to get better from here on in.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Real shame if Zaheer is out. Seems v unprofessional if he is - was it January that was his last 1st game?


 
You do have to wonder why he wasnt over here in May getting some county games under his belt.  Its just not the Indian thing to play for English counties.

ETA: No Zaheer this morning.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

Well here we go first ball after lunch and MSD is going to have a bit of a twirl.  I bet he gets KP.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 22, 2011)

I didn't know you were allowed to switch keepers in the middle of a game.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> I didn't know you were allowed to switch keepers in the middle of a game.


 
Yeah, nothing against it in the laws.  England had to do it recently because Prior got injured and Colly took the gloves. Apparently Dravid has kept before in ODI's so he's no mug behind the stumps.

I'd thought Sachin would have had a go before we got to switching the keeper.  Perhaps he took one look at the pitch and one at the sky and decided he didnt fancy it.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

KP out to MSD, who'd thought it?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 22, 2011)

Bugger


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

No wait, review.  Apparently you can review catches but not lbw, how odd.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

Not out on review.

Why can you review catches but not LBW?  What a dogs dinner of a system.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2011)

I know Dhoni dropped a howler yesterday, but this won't look too clever if Dravid drops a catch/misses a stumping. 

Might work, but it seems like a very stupid tactic to me.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I know Dhoni dropped a howler yesterday, but this won't look too clever if Dravid drops a catch/misses a stumping.
> 
> Might work, but it seems like a very stupid tactic to me.


 
Perhaps, but as Dravid has been named W/K in some odi's they must back him.  Also MSD must be their next best bet with the ball otherwise why bother?  Mind you it doesnt seem very profesional.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2011)

Coming into the most important series of the year with an unfit star bowler doesn't seem very professional either. 

I'm not very impressed with the Indians so far.


And Dhoni looks pretty shit to me. I'd fancy a bat against that.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Coming into the most important series of the year with an unfit star bowler doesn't seem very professional either.
> 
> I'm not very impressed with the Indians so far.
> 
> ...



I've only got the radio, but his figure coming into this match are not promising.  Time will tell but it has been an odd preperation by India.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 22, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Not out on review.
> 
> Why can you review catches but not LBW?  What a dogs dinner of a system.



I think the Indians had a particular issue with the accuracy of the projected path of the ball technology needed for an lbw so they refused to allow that part, but accepted the system for catches.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I think the Indians had a particular issue with the accuracy of the projected path of the ball technology needed for an lbw so they refused to allow that part, but accepted the system for catches.


 
Seems odd, as it seems to me the technology for lbw is better then slight nicks.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Seems odd, as it seems to me the technology for lbw is better then slight nicks.


 
A dodgy drs decision went against the Indians a while ago. That's the root cause of this, I think.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

Yup I think I've heard that before.  Still i'd thought they would say no to all technology.

Anyway back to the game. England appear to working themselves into a decent position.     KP into the 90's


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 22, 2011)

Hmm, Bell and Morgan out.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2011)

Looking at the odds, and you can get 20-1 on India winning. 

Sounds like good value to me. There's a hell of a long way to go in this match yet.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 22, 2011)

getting away from them at the moment... they'll do well to bat past England and bowl them out, already having lost most of a day.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 22, 2011)

Some of Praveen Kumar's deliveries have been incredible. Good on the lad getting a 5fer at HQ!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 22, 2011)

You really feel for the Indian bowlers at this point. KP and Swann have gone into free money mode by the looks of things...


----------



## strung out (Jul 22, 2011)

what a way for KP to bring up his double hundred!

4,6,2,4 then a declaration. 474/8


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 22, 2011)

Well done to KP for behaving.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 22, 2011)

Come on Jimmy! Let's 'av it!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2011)

Wow, Strauss the attacking captain!


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 22, 2011)

I could be wrong, but by lunch tomorrow that could look like an exceptionally dumb declaration...


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 22, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> I could be wrong, but by lunch tomorrow that could look like an exceptionally dumb declaration...


 
The clock is ticking. It'll take at least a day and a half for India to knock up a similar score. That'll take us into Sunday afternoon.

We could lose but I think it's unlikely. It'll be a draw or a win for England.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 22, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Wow, Strauss the attacking captain!


 
declare your 1st innings on 480 with 3 days left on what looks like flat, slow pitch is kamikaze. He better pray for clouds tomorrow...


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 23, 2011)

I thought the Indians did pretty well today, missing their best bowler and having to use part timers they kept the scoring within a chasuble total. I don't have a problem with the declaration personally, decent attacking move.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 23, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> I thought the Indians did pretty well today, missing their best bowler and having to use part timers they kept the scoring within a chasuble total. I don't have a problem with the declaration personally, decent attacking move.


 
I agree, to often in the past Strauss has let it drift with tale enders poking around, good decleration and all in all a decent Indian performance.

I hope I regret saying this but the decision to include Broad is looking increasingly suspect.  Not only did he look very nervous for his one ball with the bat but his style of bowling is not disimiilar to Ishant who was nought for a hundred and something.  I suspect a bad pick for the right reasons.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 23, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I agree, to often in the past Strauss has let it drift with tale enders poking around, good decleration and all in all a decent Indian performance.
> 
> I hope I regret saying this but the decision to include Broad is looking increasingly suspect.  Not only did he look very nervous for his one ball with the bat but his style of bowling is not disimiilar to Ishant who was nought for a hundred and something.  I suspect a bad pick for the right reasons.


 
He didn't have tale-enders poking around, he had KP scoring 25 an over!

Looking a nice day to bat atm...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 23, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> He didn't have tale-enders poking around, he had KP scoring 25 an over!
> 
> Looking a nice day to bat atm...


 
He left the Indians an awkward half-hour after a long day chasing leather and gave his bowlers two bites at the new cherry - last night and this morning. It didn't work, as in they didn't take any wickets, but it was good thinking.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 23, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He left the Indians an awkward half-hour after a long day chasing leather and gave his bowlers two bites at the new cherry - last night and this morning. It didn't work, as in they didn't take any wickets, but it was good thinking.


 
bring a batsman flaying their knackered bowlers around into the pavilion, on the off chance you can get one wicket in 6 overs? It's reckless.


----------



## strung out (Jul 23, 2011)

sachin gone!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 23, 2011)

I see Broad's tactic of pretending to be shit for a year to make India complacent has worked.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 23, 2011)

Both batsmen dropped in the same over.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 23, 2011)

yep. Now if we could only stop shelling catches!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 23, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I see Broad's tactic of pretending to be shit for a year to make India complacent has worked.


 
Ditto KP.


----------



## strung out (Jul 23, 2011)

heh. five down now.

274 is the follow-on target!


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 23, 2011)

well, evidently I was wrong to be worried about the declaration, England with a big lead and two days to win the match. Spose the plan will be bat till tea tomorrow?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 23, 2011)

They'll bat beyond tea, I expect. Here we'll see Strauss the cautious once more, I think. I very much doubt he'll declare in a way that gives India any chance of winning at all. And I think he will be right not to.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 23, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> Spose the plan will be bat till tea tomorrow?



I would of thought so. Leave a record breaking 4th innings total to win in the first two sessions.

The weather is looking good for the next two days to boot....  http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/8?area=London


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 23, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I would of thought so. Leave a record breaking 4th innings total to win in the first two sessions.


 
Nah. Records are there to be broken. He will want a huge target and a required run rate of at least four an over I reckon - in other words he'll make it impossible for India to win.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 23, 2011)

We need to get the last 10 wickets that's the most important thing.

I'm rarely a fan of sacrificing time just to maximise the score. If they need 450 to win, they will only play defensive. If it's 350 and we put them in to bat at tea tomorrow that may tempt them into playing a few shots.


----------



## strung out (Jul 23, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> If it's 350 and we put them in to bat at tea tomorrow that may tempt them into playing a few shots.


 
suicide


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 23, 2011)

How many runs can we score in 2 sessions? 150? 200 at a push? If the declaration is left any longer they have a realistic opportunity of getting a draw.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 23, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I would of thought so



No, no no no no. You would _have_ thought so.

(Sorry, but bad grammar in a thread about test cricket is simply unacceptable)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 23, 2011)

If it England were losing the series, perhaps they'd leave a tempter. But first test? No chance.


----------



## Santino (Jul 23, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> declare your 1st innings on 480 with 3 days left on what looks like flat, slow pitch is kamikaze. He better pray for clouds tomorrow...


 


Teaboy said:


> I hope I regret saying this but the decision to include Broad is looking increasingly suspect.


 
lol


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 23, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> How many runs can we score in 2 sessions? 150? 200 at a push? If the declaration is left any longer they have a realistic opportunity of getting a draw.


 
in 2 sessions? Depends on the wickets you've got in hand really, but 60 overs, playing to set a target, You'd be disappointed not to be scoring 4 an over, ie. 250.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 23, 2011)

dp


----------



## strung out (Jul 23, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> How many runs can we score in 2 sessions? 150? 200 at a push? If the declaration is left any longer they have a realistic opportunity of getting a draw.


 
inviting them to score 350 in 4 sessions would be ridiculous. complete, absolute suicide.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 23, 2011)

Santino said:


> lol


 
turned grey, ball started swinging. Therefore I was correct


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 23, 2011)

strung out said:


> inviting them to score 350 in 4 sessions would be ridiculous. complete, absolute suicide.


 
Less than 3 an over!


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't know what the 4th innings 5th day record to win a test match is but I bet it ain't (Yes twentythreedom 'ain't'  ) much higher than 350.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 23, 2011)

But if we can lob on 450 by tea I'll be a very happy chappy.

The clock is a ticking


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 23, 2011)

Off the top of my head, it's WI - Lara scored a hundred, I think - and it's over 400.

But that's not the right way to look at it. This is the 2000th test. Of those that have gone before, only a very small number will have seen a team set a big target last innings with the time left to get it. Whatever the record is, and I think it's about 430, it is eminently breakable. And the ball is swinging with the cloud, but there's very little wrong with the pitch.


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## strung out (Jul 23, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I don't know what the 4th innings 5th day record to win a test match is but I bet it ain't (Yes twentythreedom 'ain't'  ) much higher than 350.


 
418 i think, with 350+ being done 8 times and 300+ 25 times


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## DrRingDing (Jul 23, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Off the top of my head, it's WI - Lara scored a hundred, I think - and it's over 400.
> 
> But that's not the right way to look at it. This is the 2000th test. Of those that have gone before, only a very small number will have seen a team set a big target last innings with the time left to get it. Whatever the record is, and I think it's about 430, it is eminently breakable. And the ball is swinging with the cloud, but there's very little wrong with the pitch.


 
Weather looks good for batting tomorrow and there's a bit of cloud forecast for Monday. 

The record for the 4th innings at Lords is 406 by Australia. The pitch won't (yes 23dom 'won't'  ) deteriorate like days of old BUT those footmarks may give Mr Swann a few opportunities.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2011)

Strauss isn't going to delcare at teatime even if we're 500 runs to the good. I'm sure it hasn't escaped his notice that the margin by which India passed the follow-on mark was about what KP was hitting every over at the time of yesterday's declaration. 

Still, there's no right decision until after the decision has been made, and with Tremlett not looking in great shape the follow on probably wouldn't have been enforced anyway.

e2a: And as for Dravid being dropped, I'm glad he's got his name on the honours board and if he hadn't we'd have no kind of match left at all.


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## redsquirrel (Jul 24, 2011)

I think lbj is right about what Strauss will do, whether he should is another matter.

I think if you want to be a great team then you lose the occasional game when going for the win, but this England isn't a great team and although it was poor first time round the Indian batting line is very good.

Still no word on Kahn's fitness.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

> Pleasantries in a second, but first a little breaking news: Sachin Tendulkar has a viral infection and is "resting under medical advice". He won't be on the field of play this morning, but may come back later after further medical assessment.


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## embree (Jul 24, 2011)

100 runs per session, declare after tea 250 on from where we are now. 450 to win in 100 overs, England to win by tea on Monday.

Sorted


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2011)

I hope Tendulkar does come back and I hope he gets his century. I'd be quite happy for the rest of the Indian team to roll over mind you.


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## gabi (Jul 24, 2011)

England should walk this. No zaheer, no tendulkar. Shitty match really after all the hype.


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## embree (Jul 24, 2011)

the silence over Stuart Broad's fine bowling display is quite deafening btw


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

.


----------



## gabi (Jul 24, 2011)

Didnt see Broad's spell, i gather it wasnt bad tho. Good to hear he's firing again.


----------



## strung out (Jul 24, 2011)

yep. 

tbf, he hadn't taken more than 2 wickets in any of his last 16 test innings, so i don't think criticism of his bowling performances was particularly unjustified. particularly given the strong options we've got as back up for him right now. finn, bresnan and onions could all justifiably stake a claim to his spot.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

He bowled very well. At last!

I stand by everything I said before because his previous performances were awful. He was lucky to be selected, but he's come good, so well done to him. The petulant spoilt brat did well.


----------



## embree (Jul 24, 2011)

It's an opinion. Criticising someone for months on end and then ignoring their good bits is shitty though. And it stands out.

Even if recent performances in actual Test matches don't count, as seems to be the case with Ian Bell


----------



## embree (Jul 24, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He bowled very well. At last!
> 
> I stand by everything I said before because his previous performances were awful. He was lucky to be selected, but he's come good, so well done to him. The petulant spoilt brat did well.


 
I saw you criticising someone else for being graceless on another thread today


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

I still think he's a petulant brat, though. One good bowling performance isn't going to change that. 

I will however state very clearly that he has been the stand-out bowler in this match so far.


----------



## gabi (Jul 24, 2011)

Broad was very lucky to be selected imo. i think bresnan had a right to be aggrieved. Gamble paid off tho.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

I'll go further, in fact. I thought Broad was underbowled yesterday, and it was a big mistake not giving him the second new ball. Strauss can be quite an inflexible captain sometimes - in earlier matches I thought Broad was given the ball too much, but yesterday, he didn't even bowl as many overs and Anderson or Tremlett.


Meanwhile, collapse! India ain't out of this one yet.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

That declaration's starting to look reckless now!


----------



## strung out (Jul 24, 2011)

oh dear...


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That declaration's starting to look reckless now!


 
Hang in there, it's not over yet.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2011)

Oh fuck, you leave a test match for an hour and this happens


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2011)

Double fuck


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## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

Prior's 50, 350+ ahead, tis all good.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

England favourites, clearly. I still say 350 isn't enough to be comfortable though. For the sake of the game, it would be good if India bowled England out for about 200.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

They're playing to 7pm tonight and IMO we really need at least a couple of hours at 'em tonight.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

A good couple of wickets tonight would be grand.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2011)

Is the little one back on the field then? If so, when can he come in to bat?


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## strung out (Jul 24, 2011)

after 4 hours or when the 5th wicket goes down, i think


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

Boycott talking about a declaration soon. I'll be surprised, though, if they declare before they have a 450 lead at least.


----------



## strung out (Jul 24, 2011)

strung out said:


> after 4 hours or when the 5th wicket goes down, i think


 
i think that's 4 hours after he comes back on the pitch btw, not 4 hours into the india innings


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2011)

Great stuff from Prior there, to score a century at 5 an over with so much pressure on. Not half bad from Stuart Broad either, poor old Tim Bresnan must be weeping into his cornflakes.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

Another brave declaration! Potentially 128 overs to get the runs. 3.5 per over. It's doable. Unlikely, but doable.


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## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

Fucking wicket!


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## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

DrRingDing is a happy chappy. 19/1


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 24, 2011)

Tomorrow's gonna be a real squeaker I reckon.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 24, 2011)

embree said:


> the silence over Stuart Broad's fine bowling display is quite deafening btw


 
he's been really excellent and I'm happy


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

set up perfectly for tomorrow. Unlikely India will even go for the win but if they have a good morning who knows?


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## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

It'll take more than a good morning. 

3 of their players are crocked. If we can't get a win tomorrow we don't deserve to win at match all series.


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## strung out (Jul 24, 2011)

don't agree with that. on a day that should be great for batting, against one of the top batting line-ups in the world, there would be no disgrace in drawing the match. i reckon we'll do it though, just.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 24, 2011)

strung out said:


> don't agree with that. on a day that should be great for batting, against one of the top batting line-ups in the world, there would be no disgrace in drawing the match. i reckon we'll do it though, just.


 
a) It's going to be cloudy tomorrow, not ideal batting conditions.

b) Tendulkar is sick and has been off the field for a long time.....and Gambhir is battered and bruised.

c) This is a prime opportunity to lay into them.


----------



## strung out (Jul 24, 2011)

i still don't think we should be too surprised to see dravid, laxxman, dhoni and then tendulkar manage to bat out the day with ease. the forecasts i've seen for tomorrow have all got it at hot and mostly sunny, with a few cloudy patches.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 24, 2011)

I agree with both of you i think. India do have the batting to hold out but this is a prime chance for England. A pivotal day for the series as a draw will feel like a victory for India.


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

Loved this from the BBC text updates: 



> *10:41* Apparently a policeman holding a megaphone up by the Tube station has just come up with this: "Ladies and gentlemen. The queue you are in does not exist. THE QUEUE YOU ARE IN DOES NOT EXIST."


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

WICKET
Dravid c Prior b Anderson 36 (India 94-2)

 

Just texting my Indian mate who is at the ground


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 25, 2011)

Need another wicket this session


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## marty21 (Jul 25, 2011)

Badgers said:


> WICKET
> Dravid c Prior b Anderson 36 (India 94-2)
> 
> 
> ...



excellent - Dravid is in form, so good to get him out early doors


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Loved this from the BBC text updates:


 
The cake is a lie.


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## redsquirrel (Jul 25, 2011)

And Laxman gone! Excellent


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> And Laxman gone! Excellent


 
Marvellous 

What will Tendulkar score?


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## redsquirrel (Jul 25, 2011)

And another one - 4 down


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Just texting my Indian mate who is at the ground


 
This again ^


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## Idaho (Jul 25, 2011)

The dog balls seem to be getting the wickets. I think we'll sew this up a couple of hours after lunch.


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

Run rate of about 4.4 per over needed I think? 
Current run rate is about 2.7 per over.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 25, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Run rate of about 4.4 per over needed I think?
> Current run rate is about 2.7 per over.



India won't be looking at the win any more, it'll be about hanging on for them. 

Best price for the India win now is 250/1 btw.


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> India won't be looking at the win any more, it'll be about hanging on for them.
> 
> Best price for the India win now is 250/1 btw.


 
Just put 50p on


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Just put 50p on


 
Oh dear, I may have lost my investment


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## redsquirrel (Jul 25, 2011)

With Tendulkar gone England should do it now


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## redsquirrel (Jul 25, 2011)

Don't like tis Trott/KP move


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## past caring (Jul 25, 2011)

That's the one!


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## Idaho (Jul 25, 2011)

Broad doing everything but taking a wicket...


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## agricola (Jul 25, 2011)

What has Broad done to annoy Billy Bowden so?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2011)

here we go.


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

7 wickets is it?


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## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2011)

Yep, pointless shot.


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yep, pointless shot.


 
Marvellous. 

Can you listen to the cricket on FM radio anywhere today?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Marvellous.
> 
> Can you listen to the cricket on FM radio anywhere today?


 I hope so, can't see anywhere on a quick skim though.


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## Idaho (Jul 25, 2011)

England policy of keeping faith with players going through poor patches has been vindicated again. I wouldn't have picked Broad, and yet he's been pivotal.


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## past caring (Jul 25, 2011)

TMS website says only options are R4 longwave, R5L Sports Ex, web and TV (which is just freeview and R5L via tv)


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## Teaboy (Jul 25, 2011)

Idaho said:


> England policy of keeping faith with players going through poor patches has been vindicated again. I wouldn't have picked Broad, and yet he's been pivotal.


 
Nah neither would I, see my comments from Friday.  Shows how much I know.


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## agricola (Jul 25, 2011)

Jimmy


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 25, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Broad doing everything but taking a wicket...


 
Happy now?


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## Badgers (Jul 25, 2011)

Sweet


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## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2011)

no1


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 25, 2011)

really classy performance all round from england. Hard to see too many weaknesses in their current line-up


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 25, 2011)

Comprehensive win. Aside from Strauss's uncharacteristic drops, it's a case of all departments in good order. India sans Zaheer are now in a real mess. And I'm underwhelmed by Dhoni - his batting, keeping and captaincy. Will they win a match?

And well done to Stuart Broad. Very well played - keep it up. I will be very happy if he continues to prove me wrong in my previuos assessment of him.


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## Santino (Jul 25, 2011)

My name is Santino and I approve of this result.


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## DrRingDing (Jul 25, 2011)

We didn't win this without a struggle. This series is going to be tough. We ain't No1 yet.


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## Teaboy (Jul 26, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> We didn't win this without a struggle. This series is going to be tough. We ain't No1 yet.


 
I guess there are 2 ways of looking at this. Yes it was a real struggle and there were a couple of moments where England looked shakey. But you could also say England lost a bad toss yet still declared twice and dismissed the best batting line-up in the world for less than 300 twice.

England played very well and now off to Trent Bridge where, traditionally, the ball swings more than any other English test ground, so signs are very promising, especially if Zaheer is not fit.

India were underprepared which amazes me because they always seem to be underprepared, they got absolutly gubbed in the first test in SA this winter.  They will come back strong but I'm not sure they have enough bowling to take 20 wickets twice in at least 2 of the next 3 matches.


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## Idaho (Jul 26, 2011)

I just hope Broad will tell all those back-room people who tell him to keep bowling short that he'd rather not anymore.


----------



## Santino (Jul 26, 2011)

I think England benefitted from having a clear goal in mind - winning the series by two matches - rather than just not losing.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/australia/8661658/Australia-overhaul-Test-squad-for-Sri-Lanka-tour-by-taking-punt-on-youth-and-Adelaide-nets-bowler-Nathan-Lyon.htmlhttp:// - meanwhile Australia take a punt on another spinner - this time one with 4 first class wickets, a couple more fast bowlers, and decide to put Phil Hughes back in. But at least they still have Mitchell Johnson.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 26, 2011)

I thought that was, all round, a first-class England performance, the only worries being all those fluffed catches, and some batsman getfting out cheaply, especially Cook.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 26, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/australia/8661658/Australia-overhaul-Test-squad-for-Sri-Lanka-tour-by-taking-punt-on-youth-and-Adelaide-nets-bowler-Nathan-Lyon.htmlhttp:// - meanwhile Australia take a punt on another spinner - this time one with 4 first class wickets, a couple more fast bowlers, and decide to put Phil Hughes back in. But at least they still have Mitchell Johnson.


 
How the mighty have fallen


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 26, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> How the mighty have fallen


 
They're basically the England team / set up of the 90's.  Anyway as fun as last winter was this is a thread for discussing teams in the top 4, not the middle of the table rubbish.


----------



## Ungrateful (Jul 26, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> They're basically the England team / set up of the 90's....


 
Aye, like England in the 80s and early 1990s, constantly looking for the new Botham (and remember the many laughable candidates who had that ridiculous moniker attached to them: Derek Pringle, Christine Lewis, The Hollioakes), Oz seem constantly trying to find the 'new Warne' or the 'next McGrath', rather than concentrating on talent whatever and wherever it might be. That's what's great about the current England team, no one is dogged by comparisson with legendry figures.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 26, 2011)

Ungrateful said:


> Aye, like England in the 80s and early 1990s, constantly looking for the new Botham (and remember the many laughable candidates who had that ridiculous moniker attached to them: Derek Pringle, Christine Lewis, The Hollioakes), Oz seem constantly trying to find the 'new Warne' or the 'next McGrath', rather than concentrating on talent whatever and wherever it might be. That's what's great about the current England team, no one is dogged by comparisson with legendry figures.


 
They came very close with a few. Mark Ealham was a genuine candidate for world-class Test all-rounder.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 26, 2011)

Idaho said:


> They came very close with a few. Mark Ealham was a genuine candidate for world-class Test all-rounder.


 
He was? 

A classic example of the type, I'd have thought - not good enough in either department.

ETA:

I've just looked up his record. He was barely better as a batsman than a useful tailender. And 17 wickets at 28 in 8 tests - decent average, but not bowled much given he only took 2 wickets a match. Batting ave in those 8 tests of 21. 

Mediocre - just like Pringle, Lewis, the Hollioakes et al.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 26, 2011)




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## Idaho (Jul 26, 2011)

Ok - maybe Ealham was a fraction off world class, but then we did have Ronnie Irani. Now he was a name that brought fear to opponents.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 26, 2011)

It's a travesty that Ian Austin never played a test.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 26, 2011)

I was a fan of Chris Lewis he should have had a much longer England.....now look at the poor fuck.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 26, 2011)

Lewis had more promise than the rest of the candidates for 'new Botham'. He didn't help himself, though - remember him missing a test in the Caribbean after getting heatstroke on the beach. But you could certainly argue he didn't get anything like the support Broad and co get now. That wasn't just him, though - lots of players were let down by England's clueless management at that time.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 26, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Lewis had more promise than the rest of the candidates for 'new Botham'. He didn't help himself, though - remember him missing a test in the Caribbean after getting heatstroke on the beach. But you could certainly argue he didn't get anything like the support Broad and co get now. That wasn't just him, though - lots of players were let down by England's clueless management at that time.



Everything certainly seems a lot more professional now for sure. You can imagine the likes of Ian Bell would have been totally fucked over then - dropped regularly, messed around, etc. England wouldn't have got the consistency he's showing now out of him 15 years ago.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 27, 2011)

The problem with Chris Lewis was that there were a few people who rated him highly, and there was one person* who rated him as the best in the world.


*himself


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 27, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Everything certainly seems a lot more professional now for sure. You can imagine the likes of Ian Bell would have been totally fucked over then - dropped regularly, messed around, etc. England wouldn't have got the consistency he's showing now out of him 15 years ago.


 
Parallels with Ramprakash, I think. They're very similar players in many ways - best technique, most naturally gifted players in the team, but fragile confidence.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 27, 2011)

Can't believe Zaheer will be fit for Trent Bridge if he wasn't fit to carry on at Lords? 

So it's McGrath lite in Patel or that nutter Sreesanth. But they must give England more of a game with one test under their belts and 4 bowlers instead of 3.. Hope they come back hard and continue the form that had only 2 of England's top 6 passing 50 in either innings. Was a good Test but too much wrong with India to be wholly convinced - that said, all the England bowlers played well for once. (Still can't see why Bresnan or someone wouldn't have done what Broad did, except of course he wasn't given the opportunity).


----------



## alfajobrob (Jul 28, 2011)

Don't know if anyoe has caught it but "Botham: The Legend of '81" was on bbc2 tonight, worth catching up on iplayer for...was the first test I remember


----------



## Idaho (Jul 28, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Hope they come back hard and continue the form that had only 2 of England's top 6 passing 50 in either innings.


 
? What a willfully contrived negative slant on an England batting performance that saw two declarations! I'm the first to criticise England batting, but I think you are being daft. In any test match there are bound to be some cheap wickets. The important thing is that there are substantial top order partnerships. If there are, then box ticked.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 28, 2011)

alfajobrob said:


> Don't know if anyoe has caught it but "Botham: The Legend of '81" was on bbc2 tonight, worth catching up on iplayer for...was the first test I remember


 
Me too. One of the reasons I'm so angry that live test cricket is no longer on free-to-air tv. My parents are not big sports fans, so they would not have had sky sports. I would never have sat down to watch Bob Willis steaming in on the final day (to me, the Headingley test is Willis's test, not Botham's), meaning that I might never have become a cricket fan. I wanted to be Bob Willis after watching that. I'd run around pretending to be him. It was the beginning of my love for cricket, and it would almost certainly not have happened if I'd been a 10-year-old today. The sell-out to sky is robbing a whole generation of the chance to fall in love with cricket. 

And of course, ironically, both Botham and Willis now work for sky. Do they know what they are doing? Do they care? 

As commentators go, Richie Benaud is a legend, not least because he refuses to work for any broadcast that is not free-to-air. Good man.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 28, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> As commentators go, Richie Benaud is a legend, not least because he refuses to work for any broadcast that is not free-to-air. Good man.


 
I never knew that. Good man.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 28, 2011)

Just hearing on the news that Tremlett has had a problem and had to sit out the training session making him a major doubt for tomorrow.  Probably that injury he nursed through the last match, better it happen now then during the next test.

Given the form (both national and county) of Bresnan its not a major blow, Trent Bridge may even suit him better.  What a batting line that could be though with probably Swann coming in at 10!

Do we need that much batting against a weakish Indian attack, assuming Zaheer is not fit?  If Swann, Bresnan and Broad all play is there room for another bowler?  I'd like to see them call up Finn as cover just to keep all options open.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 28, 2011)

Probably not the right place for two spinners, but I'd if we were going for five bowlers I'd quite like to give Monty his annual twirl. I'd still rate him as one of the top four or five spinners in the world. Bad luck for him that England also have the number 1.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 28, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Probably not the right place for two spinners, but I'd if we were going for five bowlers I'd quite like to give Monty his annual twirl. I'd still rate him as one of the top four or five spinners in the world. Bad luck for him that England also have the number 1.


 
Maybe if it was old trafford 2 spinners could be an idea, but not Trent Bridge.  They are still saying Tremlett should play, I don't know why you'd take a risk having seen what happened to India when they lost Zaheer.

Incidentally Zaheer has been ruled out, so will India go for the safe option in Patel or go for broke with Sreesanth?  I hope its the later, get a bit a fire going.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 28, 2011)

At Trent Bridge we need a swing bowler to replace Tremlett.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 28, 2011)

If you're bringing in a fifth bowler for Trent Bridge you'd want someone who can swing it surely?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 28, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> At Trent Bridge we need a swing bowler to replace Tremlett.


 
That's a good point. How's Shahzad going at the moment? It'll be Bresnan, mind. I can't see them doing anything other than a straight swap of Bresnan for Tremlett and the other 10 the same. I'd go for Onions, personally, if he's fit.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 28, 2011)

England don't do horses for course these days, they do consistency.  Anyway Bresnan can swing it a bit, who else is there out there?  Whats Onions county form been like this so far this year?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 28, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> England don't do horses for course these days, they do consistency.  Anyway Bresnan can swing it a bit, who else is there out there?  Whats Onions county form been like this so far this year?


 
They also like to talk of having a stable of fast bowlers, any one of whom can step in if needed. For instance, I'm a fan of Steve Finn, but I wouldn't pick him for this test. But he's in the stable still.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 28, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They also like to talk of having a stable of fast bowlers, any one of whom can step in if needed. For instance, I'm a fan of Steve Finn, but I wouldn't pick him for this test. But he's in the stable still.


 
I agree, although its quite clear they have a pecking order regardless of the pitch.  Its Bresnan next and then Finn, Shazad and Onions are further down still.  Its the same with the batting, they pick the next 'cab off the rank' like they did with Trott and Morgan.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 28, 2011)

In the batting, it's more justified. In the bowling, they need to learn a lesson from the match they chose Finn/Tremlett/Broad. That was a mistake, I think. Mind you, this bowling line-up had something of a samey quality to it: 







Colin Croft looks scary in that. "He'd bounce his own grandmother if he thought it would get him a wicket."


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 28, 2011)

I'd go for Simon Jones 2/9 last week.

But the selectors have ignored him for years.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 28, 2011)

Good call, that. No way they'd trust Jones in a four-man attack, though.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 28, 2011)

There's no way they'd pick him on the basis of two overs either, even if he did take a couple of wickets in them.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 28, 2011)

Idaho said:


> ? What a willfully contrived negative slant on an England batting performance that saw two declarations! I'm the first to criticise England batting, but I think you are being daft. In any test match there are bound to be some cheap wickets. The important thing is that there are substantial top order partnerships. If there are, then box ticked.



Why is it daft to hope India come back strong with 4 bowlers at their disposal and to see how England cope? I put the failure of some of the batting down to conditions and good bowling - I wasn't slating the batting? But I am curious to see how Cook for example goes, given the struggles against Pakistan last year, against a stronger seam attack? 

With your own criteria, there were 2 century partnerships (fantastic in the circumstances and all praise to Trott and KP) in the first innings and none in the second. Probably poorly expressed but I'm curious to see how they go that's all..


----------



## Santino (Jul 29, 2011)

Hmm, cloudy this morning. Best of the weather on Sunday, apparently. And Trent Bridge is usually very difficult to bat on in the 4th innings.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 29, 2011)

Win the toss and bat?


----------



## Santino (Jul 29, 2011)

England cleverly lost the toss and batted.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 29, 2011)

Good toss to lose I reckon. It's not like it will swing more for India on the first morning like some grounds. Just need to set a respectable total and have at them. Enforce the follow-on at 4pm tomorrow?


----------



## Santino (Jul 29, 2011)

A sub-plot of this Test is that Dhoni could get in trouble if his over-rates are rubbish again.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 29, 2011)

Kumar not pleased with the umpires decision here. 

Sounds like Pietersen is in good form.


Boycott bingo going well here - Corridor of Uncertainty and over rates in the first ten minutes.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 29, 2011)

Only just tuned in after a busy morning. Sounds like we've steadied the ship a little. Would be good to get near 300.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 29, 2011)

Or even 200...


----------



## Santino (Jul 29, 2011)

Shitbags


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 29, 2011)

Oh dear. A lot of the press articles in the last couple of days look a bit premature now. 

I think Anderson would have done just as much damage if England were bowling though.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 29, 2011)

Good bowling from India after lunch. I rather like Kumar nice to see a variety of bowling styles doing well


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 29, 2011)

Come on Bres show em what a Yorkshireman can do.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 29, 2011)

Testicles.

What the weather going to do tomorrow?

Mr Swann and Mr Anderson need to be on it.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 29, 2011)

Testicles.

What the weather going to do tomorrow?

Mr Swann and Mr Anderson need to be on it.


----------



## Santino (Jul 29, 2011)

Broad might be handy as Trent Bridge is his home ground.


----------



## El Sueno (Jul 29, 2011)

Crikey. I guess we'll see just how badly we batted when India go in, roundabout teatime the way things are going.


----------



## Santino (Jul 29, 2011)

Just the 12 runs off that over.


----------



## Santino (Jul 29, 2011)

And 15 off the next. Cheers for that.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 29, 2011)

Excellent partnership here. Whatever you think of Broad's bowling he's a very good batsman to be at no 9.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 29, 2011)

Thank fuck for broad - he turned a pisspoor England batting display into an almost-respectable score


----------



## strung out (Jul 29, 2011)

about 30 runs below par i reckon. if we can get india out for anything under 300, i reckon we'll win this.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 29, 2011)

strung out said:


> about 30 runs below par i reckon. if we can get india out for anything under 300, i reckon we'll win this.


aren't you rather optimistically ignoring the possibility of another batting collapse in England's second innings?


----------



## strung out (Jul 29, 2011)

i'd say that's being pessimistic of you to expect it, rather than optimistic of me to ignore it.

england's last 14 test innings...

474/8d, 269/6d, 377/8d, 486, 335/7d, 496/5d, 644, 513, (187 & 123 in Perth), 620/5d, 260, 517/1d, 446


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 29, 2011)

good point, that's what following England since the 70s does for you - makes you a pessimist


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 30, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Excellent partnership here. Whatever you think of Broad's bowling he's a very good batsman to be at no 9.


I think he's got the ability to become a genuine all-rounder (which I think is one of the reasons why England like him so much) but he's got to be more consistent - both in his bowling and batting. 
If he can do that then he'll be a major part of the team. Have to say I've been disappointed with Morgan so far this series I thought with his style that he could be the type of player to get us out of jail but he's done nothing.


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)

i think bopara is a better long-term bet than morgan, have done for ages. morgan was no doubt the correct choice for the start of the summer, but i can't help but feel that we'd be better served by persisting with ravi and trying to make a decent test player out of him, rather than the irishman. plus, bopara is a very decent medium pace bowler when needed.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jul 30, 2011)

He has a face like a sad dog though


----------



## Santino (Jul 30, 2011)

Or, to put it another way, he can bat and bowl, PLUS he looks like a sad dog!


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 30, 2011)

slowly getting back into a strong position in this, 144-4, 70 odd ahead. Pieterson just shelled an easy catch though, off Broad again...


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 30, 2011)

aw, shit. Knew if we kept dropping catches it'd come back to haunt us


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 30, 2011)

Hooray, Dhoni gone


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 30, 2011)

Can I just say ...... HA HA HA "DRS"!!!!! - Harbajan's gutted


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 30, 2011)

Hattrick for Broad! 8 down now


----------



## agricola (Jul 30, 2011)

Broad lol!

hatrick


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)




----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 30, 2011)

Dravid gone for 117, just Sreesanth left now


----------



## agricola (Jul 30, 2011)

Dravid now.

273/9


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)

i had a feeling this would happen


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 30, 2011)

Oh well. All on the second innings, then.


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)

harbhajan's wicket was the best of all.


----------



## agricola (Jul 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> i had a feeling this would happen


 
I didnt.  Havent watched any of todays play, switched it on after getting in from work and saw Dhoni go immediately... its been great viewing thus far though.


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)

tbf, i didn't either actually


----------



## agricola (Jul 30, 2011)

Half an hour ago, Broad's figures were rubbish.



288 all out


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)

that's broad's best test bowling figures


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jul 30, 2011)

'Drop him' sounds a bit daft now eh?


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)

wasn't at the time though. he'd been fairly rubbish for a while before the start of this series.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm a bit worried about the Trott injury situation. It would be shit to lose him now


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 30, 2011)

11 overs left today, let's just get through them without loss!

(eta: errmmmm I'll get me coat )


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jul 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> wasn't at the time though. he'd been fairly rubbish for a while before the start of this series.



From what I remember mostly based on the time since his last 5 wicket haul, it seems that unless you get fivefa you're not bowling well. He was injured for most of the last Ashes so within 4 tests to come back takes a little time, there is also the impact of losing the new ball to Tremlett which must impact a bit on confidence, a fair enough tactical choice given Broad was injured and playing himself back to form and fitness, but in light of both those things the call to drop him seemed a bit hasty. Batsmen seem to get ages of grace to return to form in the middle, thinks KP after his achilles injury, how many tests was it since his last ton before that knock the other week?


----------



## agricola (Jul 30, 2011)

Best wicket celebration ever.


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)

Mumbles274 said:


> From what I remember mostly based on the time since his last 5 wicket haul, it seems that unless you get fivefa you're not bowling well. He was injured for most of the last Ashes so within 4 tests to come back takes a little time, there is also the impact of losing the new ball to Tremlett which must impact a bit on confidence, a fair enough tactical choice given Broad was injured and playing himself back to form and fitness, but in light of both those things the call to drop him seemed a bit hasty. Batsmen seem to get ages of grace to return to form in the middle, thinks KP after his achilles injury, how many tests was it since his last ton before that knock the other week?


 
it wasn't just the fact that he wasn't getting any five wicket hauls though. he was bowling pretty poorly generally, bowling too short and giving away a lot of runs. i wasn't one of the people saying he should definitely be dropped, but at the same time, he shouldn't have been immune from criticism and with the relative strength of the bowling department at the moment (bresnan, shahzad, finn, onions could all take over if needed), it seems fairly obvious that there should be speculation over his place. i'm glad he's returned to form though, obviously.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jul 30, 2011)

was he bowling poorly though or being told to bowl too short? I'm not sure I know the answer to that?


Your right though, everyone deserves selection pressure...


----------



## strung out (Jul 30, 2011)

yeah, that's a question i'd like to know the answer to, too.

anyway, if the pressure has inspired him to performances like this, then brilliant!


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2011)

I reckon it might catch on this 'test cricket'.


----------



## embree (Jul 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> it wasn't just the fact that he wasn't getting any five wicket hauls though. he was bowling pretty poorly generally, bowling too short and giving away a lot of runs. i wasn't one of the people saying he should definitely be dropped, but at the same time, he shouldn't have been immune from criticism and with the relative strength of the bowling department at the moment (bresnan, shahzad, finn, onions could all take over if needed), it seems fairly obvious that there should be speculation over his place. i'm glad he's returned to form though, obviously.


 
He actually bowled well and with very little luck at both Brisbane and Adelaide before getting injured


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jul 30, 2011)

Bloody marvelous day of cricket and as butchers says test cricket is  alive and well despite the naysayers.

How much nicer is Broad when interviewed than he seems when playing. Guess that's how it should be


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 30, 2011)

bolshiebhoy said:


> Bloody marvelous day of cricket and as butchers says test cricket is  alive and well despite the naysayers.
> 
> How much nicer is Broad when interviewed than he seems when playing. Guess that's how it should be


In fairness, for the non-naysayers, test cricket's always good


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 30, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> In fairness, for the non-naysayers, test cricket's always good


 
Indeed. There's no such thing as a bad test match. 

broad has suddenly become a star! As others have said, that there was finally pressure on his place may have had something to do with it. Whatever, well done him. I've been questioning him for a couple of years. I thought he needed a spell in county cricket to hone his skills. I still stand by that, but those skills certainly seem very honed now. This should be a career-making series for him.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 31, 2011)

I hate to say it, but there's a few of us with major egg on our faces over Broad (evening, lbj!). Talk about picking the right time to come into form.
worried about Cook (form) and trott (injury) now, but what a fucking top day's cricket! And god, dravid is wonderful.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

How much of a lead do people think we'll need? 

300 would be superb, 200 would make things very fine. Batting could be at it's best tomorrow so England's top order need to perform better this time around.

On the Morgan/Bopara thing, while I'm not entirely convinced by Morgan I'd put him well above Bopara, I mean he's only averaging 43 this season playing in the second division. Hell Bairstow's got a better claim than him (not that I'd have him in the England squad yet)

Player Matches Inns N/O Runs High Score Average 100 50 Catches Stump
Bopara	9	17	1	683	178	42.68	3	2	1	0
Bairstow	10	18	1	865	205	50.88	2	5	28	0


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jul 31, 2011)

What slightly irks me is that although Trott's injury may not be as bad as first thought and he still might play, if he was ruled out then the search is on for someone to come in and replace him at 3, Bell came up to play there yesterday but my bet is that any selection would be based around who would come in to fill that spot, rather than which of the current team is best suited to that position. I still don't understand KP's refusal to play at number 3? Bogey number perhaps, but he is clearly one of the best talents in the team, has shown now he can grind out runs as well as play with flair and just has number 3 written all over him. I would think it would be much easier for someone like Bopara to come in lower down the order rather than in the crucial number 3 slot.

I'm a bit of a Luke Wright fan too, so have always been a bit disappointed in the way his England carreer has developed with regards to the test side, he may only be a lower middle order batsmen, but I think he has a lot more to offer with the ball than Bopara, also a great fielder. May still not be up to the level of test quality but his average is not far behind Morgan in first class cricket

Would like to think Hamilton-Brown would get a chance to break through one day too, anyway, I who am I to offer selection advice... not the greatest wtcher of stats and form which I guess counts for so much


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> How much of a lead do people think we'll need?
> 
> 300 would be superb, 200 would make things very fine. Batting could be at it's best tomorrow so England's top order need to perform better this time around.
> 
> ...



So many variables really. The closer to 300 the better tbh, but it's a big ask on a pitch that has managed to dispose of everyone except Dravid so far.


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> How much of a lead do people think we'll need?
> 
> 300 would be superb, 200 would make things very fine. Batting could be at it's best tomorrow so England's top order need to perform better this time around.
> 
> ...



Need to bat time like Dravid and the runs will come, so no stupid shots please. 2 days and 2 innings gone so there is a lot of time.

Bopara if he was given a run at 6 would do well (plus there's the medium pace wobblers), which I would have thought would have given him the edge over Morgan. Bairstow must be in with a shout of touring this winter? Would like him to do well and not just because of his dad, but he'll be pressed to nudge Prior out the way for a while, which is no bad thing, as he has a chance to develop.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Cant believe anyone would replace Morgan with Bopara. Morgan's not in touch but i think he's a very very talented player and will come right. Bopara might get his chance with Trott out tho. Let's see how he does.

England need 300+ lead here methink. India chase well.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

bopara has more talent than morgan, undoubtedly. he just needs to pull it together in test cricket though.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Morgan's the second most talented batsman in the england side. Bopara's a mediocre 20/20 player.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> bopara has more talent than morgan, undoubtedly. he just needs to pull it together in test cricket though.


 He only averages ~43 in First Class, that's hardly stellar


Anyway definitely England's session that, Bell playing very well.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> bopara has more talent than morgan, undoubtedly. he just needs to pull it together in test cricket though.


 
Plus, as mentioned, he has a face like a sad dog.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Morgan's the second most talented batsman in the england side. Bopara's a mediocre 20/20 player.


 
wrong way round mate


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> He only averages ~43 in First Class, that's hardly stellar


 
and morgan only averages 38


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

pitch looked quite benign in the morning, we'll have a job bowling India out cheaply on this...


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

England pretty heavy favourites with the bookies now. thank fuck! i put some hefty money on when india were cruising, at 6/1. totally broke this week so please england, pleaAAAASE!


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

bell should be dropped


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Love watching Bell. Truly elegant player...

I read yesterday that Bradman only ever played in England and Australia. Which for me puts his 99.94 average in a different focus. Bell's better


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> bell should be dropped


 
you have to remember he wouldn't have done this well against bowlers who were playing before he was even born. In that light, clearly he's shite and we should pick Ramprakash instead


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Nicking the (in hindsight blindingly obvious) idea of the central contract from the aussies has paid off. Bell would've been dropped a long time ago without one under the old system.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Excellent partnership between these two (you can see why England have always wanted Bell at number three) complement each other very nicely. Bell playing his shots through the off side while Pietersen taking everything to the leg.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Excellent partnership between these two (you can see why England have always wanted Bell at number three) complement each other very nicely. Bell playing his shots through the off side while Pietersen taking everything to the leg.


 
you fucking jinx


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Daft. 
We'll see what Morgan can do now and if India can grab themselves a batch of wickets, ball is old though


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

finely balanced this. Still think we'll need to be defending a pretty decent target the way this pitch is now playing.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

setting them 250+ will probably be enough, especially considering cloud forecast tomorrow. anything over 300 will be ideal though.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

Missed the play so far today. Sounds reasonable from England but KP


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Loads of injuries this series - Khan, Tendulkar, Ghambier, Tremlett, Trott, Swan, Harbhajan


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

England's still at 1.53. would it be stupid to throw all the money i have on that?


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Thats the most stupid thing I have seen on a cricket pitch since that WI game a few years ago.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Stupid from Bell & Morgan 
India perfectly in the right here, Bell should have been more careful.

If England don't make 300+ now then they've only got themselves to blame - a stupid shot form Pietersen and a piece of idiocy from Bell.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Perfect. Odds changed there before i could put the rent on england. Goin in now


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

i can't see any pictures, but as far as i can tell from commentary etc, it's poor form from india here and not in the spirit of the game.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Stupid from Bell & Morgan
> India perfectly in the right here, Bell should have been more careful.
> 
> If England don't make 300+ now then they've only got themselves to blame - a stupid shot form Pietersen and a piece of idiocy from Bell.


 
nonsense, fielder on the boundary clearly indicating it was a 4. India totally shameless to appeal.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> i can't see any pictures, but as far as i can tell from commentary etc, it's poor form from india here and not in the spirit of the game.


 
Stupid play from England. Hardly an underarm incident.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> nonsense, fielder on the boundary clearly indicating it was a 4. India totally shameless to appeal.


 
No chance. 

If the umpire doesn't call over or signal the four the ball is still alive. India completely in the right.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

apparently bell is claiming that the umpire did call over and was handing the bowler's jumper etc back to him.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> No chance.
> 
> If the umpire doesn't call over or signal the four the ball is still alive. India completely in the right.


 
Indeed.  Its worth pointing out perhaps that Morgan didnt go gambolling off as the ball came in, indeed (on the latest Sky replay) he tries to send Bell back.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Stupid play from England. Hardly an underarm incident.


 
eh? So the fielder acts like it was 4. All the fielders act like it was 4. Bowler already taking his jumper. Then the fielder sneakily whips off the bails. Utterly shameless, get them out by playing cricket ffs.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

jesus. England are the biggest cheats in the game. Love to see Strauss condemn india with the players in his side.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> No chance.
> 
> If the umpire doesn't call over or signal the four the ball is still alive. India completely in the right.


 Alright then, ball's still live, India know it's still live. So why are they acting like it's dead?

It's utterly pathetic. Get 'em out playing cricket. Don't appeal for that shit, you sad cunts.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> apparently bell is claiming that the umpire did call over and was handing the bowler's jumper etc back to him.


Can't believe that, if it is true Rauf has made a huge mistake.



> Alright then, balls still live, India know it's still live. So why are they acting like it's dead?


 they are perfectly entitled to, like a fielder pretending to miss a stop.

Kumar probably thought it might have gone for four.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

well it's definite that sharma collected his jumper from rauf for the end of the over, before the bails were broken. whether rauf called over or not, i'm not sure.

edit: apparently not definite at all actually. error from cricinfo


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> eh? So the fielder acts like it was 4. All the fielders act like it was 4. Bowler already taking his jumper. Then the fielder sneakily whips off the bails. Utterly shameless, get them out by playing cricket ffs.


 
Total nonsense. The fielder stopped the four. Morgan didn't think it was over, Bell just wandered down. Total tit. If Kumar hadn't removed the bails you'd wonder why.

What IS totally shameful is Bell saying that the umpire had called over when he hadn't.

"Against the spirit of the game" my arse, he was out. Fair and square. The book  should read "Out Stupid".


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Total nonsense. The fielder stopped the four. Morgan didn't think it was over, Bell just wandered down. Total tit. If Kumar hadn't removed the bails you'd wonder why.
> 
> What IS totally shameful is Bell saying that umpire called over when he hadn't.


 
TBF as the Sky team have pointed out, someone does say something that sounds like over before the ball comes in, and Rauf says it after the bails are taken off.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

the umpires have asked dhoni if he wants to withdraw the appeal and he's said no.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Total nonsense. The fielder stopped the four. Morgan didn't think it was over, Bell just wandered down. Total tit. If Kumar hadn't removed the bails you'd wonder why.
> 
> What IS totally shameful is Bell saying that umpire called over when he hadn't.


 
So why did the fielder stare at the ball for 5 seconds before throwing it back? If he thought it was still live?


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

England should learn the rules of the game they invented. End of.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> England should learn the rules of the game they invented. End of.


 
India should play cricket rather than snide "ooh, look, let's pretend it's a 4, and then run him out"


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> So why did the fielder stare at the ball for 5 seconds before throwing it back? If he thought it was still live?


 
_He_ might have thought it had gone for four but that doesn't mean that the ball was dead or that the other fielders thought it was dead.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> _He_ might have thought it had gone for four but that doesn't mean that the ball was dead or that the other fielders thought it was dead.


 
which is where spirit of the game should come in.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Aggers is currently arguing that it was the method that Kumar threw the ball back in that was unsportsmanlike.. fuck off.



> *IR Bell run out 137 (178b 22x4 0x6) SR: 76.96*


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Oh.. wait... for posterity...



> *IR Bell run out 137 (178b 22x4 0x6) SR: 76.96*



read it....


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> the umpires have asked dhoni if he wants to withdraw the appeal and he's said no.


 
Why the fuck should he?

This booing is appalling.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Fucking ludicrous


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

They've let him off.

Stupid.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Why the fuck should he?
> 
> This booing is appalling.


 
india's behaviour is appalling

edit: no it isn't. well done india.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Bell is back on?  This is mental.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Thousands of people trying to work out how to withdraw boos.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

India are pussies. They knew the rules. Fuck that.

Wonder what Aggers said about Collingwood's performance against NZ in Cardiff.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

I have to say this is bollocks, there is no way in a million years that Strauss (or any England captain of the past twenty years) would have withdrawn that appeal, Bell was a mug and should be back in the dressing room.  Dhoni wants his head sorting out.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

well done India, right decision from them.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Load of shit. Dhoni wouldn't do that in Mumbai.

Load of pissed up poms and hey presto.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> _He_ might have thought it had gone for four but that doesn't mean that the ball was dead or that the other fielders thought it was dead.


 
again, either they knew it was dead and they're acting casually to get away with it, or they didn't in which case appealing was daft.


----------



## OneStrike (Jul 31, 2011)

Ha, Bell back in, quite right!


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

You know the English team would never have done that.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> again, either they knew it was dead and they're acting casually to get away with it, or they didn't in which case appealing was daft.


 
Look at Morgan though - he stayed in his crease, and even tried to send Bell back.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> which is where spirit of the game should come in.


Against the spirit of the game or just tough? Was Bodyline against the spirit of the game?

Bell made a stupid mistake



> You know the English team would never have done that.


Grieg actually did do something similar and Jardine probably would have given the chance.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> You know the English team would never have done that.


 
maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. maybe they wouldn't have taken the bails off in the first place. it's not really relevant though, but considering the fuss over collingwood last time, i reckon england would try and uphold the spirit of the game too.


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

The key issue is the behaviour of the fielder(s). Acting like it's a 4 if it's not is definitely against the spirit of cricket, which is actually written into the laws of the game. It's not just lip service.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Maybe once. Not this team.


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

Didn't England withdraw that appeal against NZ when someone collided with a fielder?


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> again, either they knew it was dead and they're acting casually to get away with it, or they didn't in which case appealing was daft.



The only Indian player who acted the way you suggest was the guy who picked up the helmets. Everyone else was still playing cricket. It was Bell's action of walking out of the crease that seemed to confuse Dhoni and Kumar, so Dhoni casually chucked the ball to Kumar. Morgan is fully aware of what's going on and the umpires haven't called four or called over. 

India should absolutely have stuck to the decision.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. maybe they wouldn't have taken the bails off in the first place. it's not really relevant though, but considering the fuss over collingwood last time, i reckon england would try and uphold the spirit of the game too.


 
If Dravid had done that on the last ball before tea yesterday, does anyone think that Strauss wouldnt have taken the wicket?


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> The key issue is the behaviour of the fielder(s). Acting like it's a 4 if it's not is definitely against the spirit of cricket, which is actually written into the laws of the game. It's not just lip service.



Havent seen a replay of that tbh.  If he has then fair enough, but if he had then I doubt we would have even had this discussion because Bell wouldnt have been given out.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> The key issue is the behaviour of the fielder(s). Acting like it's a 4 if it's not is definitely against the spirit of cricket, which is actually written into the laws of the game. It's not just lip service.


So when a fielder pretends to miss a ball and then manages to get a run out (which has been done in the past) is that against the spirit of cricket? 

Was Bodyline against the spirit?

Have to give a lot of credit to Dhoni and India, the match is at a crucial this decision could cost them the series.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> Didn't England withdraw that appeal against NZ when someone collided with a fielder?


 
No


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

Missed that. Interesting call and change of heart.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> Didn't England withdraw that appeal against NZ when someone collided with a fielder?


 
no, collingwood upheld that appeal, pretty embarrassingly, but given the uproar over that, i don't think england would want to risk something like that happening again.

edit: especially after vettori ran out collingwood a year later when colly was out of his crease and withdrew the appeal, quoting the spirit of the game.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Sky have just shown a clip of Murali being given out for much the same thing vs NZ a while back.  That decision by Dhoni looks more and more daft, especially as India look even more deflated than they did just before tea.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Maybe once. Not this team.


 
strauss called back a sri lanka batsman after a run-out, when he had every right to send him on his way, a couple of years ago.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

> That decision by Dhoni looks more and more daft,


Maybe but this series had been brilliant and played in a good spirit up to this point.
Although I think he had right on his side Dhoni's decision will hopefully keep this series a great one.

Agree with this





> From Bob, TMS inbox: "No matter what happens in the match now, the Indian captain is Man of the Match."


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Regardless.... Bell's playing a fucking blinder


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

Ah, maybe that Sri Lanka incident is what I was thinking about. I was sure there was a time Strauss let someone off.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

and probably forgotten in all of this, but a brilliant little innings from morgan here. given his recent form and my doubts over him, i thought we could have been in serious trouble when pietersen went, but he's doing bloody well.

hope he makes me eat some more of my own words this series.


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Amazing, faith in Cricket restored(it was briefly lost when they went to Tea after Ian Bell was judged out!), Bell back in, well done India!!!


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Bell out.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

You sure?


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Well India deserved that but I think it could be too little too late.

Fantastic innings for most of that time from Bell, really starting to become a truly dangerous player



> but a brilliant little innings from morgan here


Well maybe, but India have been bowling a lot of  filth since tea


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Feel a lil sad for Bell really. His highest test score - but very tainted really.


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

Probably for the best that he didn't get 200.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> Ah, maybe that Sri Lanka incident is what I was thinking about. I was sure there was a time Strauss let someone off.


 
When the game was all but won.


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Feel a lil sad for Bell really. His highest test score - but very tainted really.


 
You're talking rubbish.  Great innings and great Indian sportsmanship.....eventually.


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

Not his highest surely, he got 199 against South Africa.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> Probably for the best that he didn't get 200.


 
Dhoni probably agrees with that.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Feel a lil sad for Bell really. His highest test score - but very tainted really.


 
not quite. he's made 199 against south africa.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> You're talking rubbish.  Great innings and great Indian sportsmanship.....eventually.


 
He should have stayed in the pavilion, really. Then it would have been good sportmanship all round. He knows it was his mistake.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> You're talking rubbish.  Great innings and great Indian sportsmanship.....eventually.


 
Next time United play Arsenal i'd love to see Fergie revoke a goal because Rooney was slightly offside. Dhoni's got to grow some balls. Makes a mockery of test cricket.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> He should have stayed in the pavilion, really. Then it would have been good sportmanship all round. He knows it was his mistake.


 
Exactly.  This wasnt sportsmanship, it was Dhoni making a (IMHO mistaken) decision to give someone another life after they did something stupid.


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Next time United play Arsenal i'd love to see Fergie revoke a goal because Rooney was slightly offside. Dhoni's got to grow some balls. Makes a mockery of test cricket.


 

Footballs an entirely different sport but then i'm sure you know that, don't you?


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Sky have just shown Kumar throwing the ball back, with no signalling of four at all.  Dhoni is a mug.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Footballs an entirely different sport but then i'm sure you know that, don't you?



Nope. know nothing about cricket sir. nor football.

now fuck off please


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Morgan out

Must be the easiest 70 he's ever made


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Makes a mockery of test cricket.


 
the current code of laws state...

"Cricket is a game that owes much of its unique appeal to the fact that it should be played not only within its Laws but also within the Spirit of the Game. Any action which is seen to abuse this Spirit causes injury to the game itself"

i'd say dhoni has played a blinder with regard to this particular aspect of test cricket.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Boycott and Aggers are about to murder each other on air here. I'm with the wife beater.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> I'd say dhoni has played a blinder with regard to this particular aspect of test cricket.


 
Are we really saying that a batsman who gets out doing something stupid should get the chance to have another go now?


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Nope. know nothing about cricket sir. nor football.



....well judging by the simplicity of your analysis that is clearly evident.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> Are we really saying that a batsman who gets out doing something stupid should get the chance to have another go now?


 
it was clear that bell had left his crease mistakenly without attempting a run. running him out was within the laws of the game, but not within the spirit. good call from dhoni.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> Sky have just shown Kumar throwing the ball back, with no signalling of four at all.  Dhoni is a mug.


 
the lying on the floor, the staring at the ball for a few seconds, then gently ambling over to it, before throwing it back? The ball's live and you do all that?


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> the current code of laws state...
> 
> "Cricket is a game that owes much of its unique appeal to the fact that it should be played not only within its Laws but also within the Spirit of the Game. Any action which is seen to abuse this Spirit causes injury to the game itself"
> 
> i'd say dhoni has played a blinder with regard to this particular aspect of test cricket.




Check Twitter. Dhoni's not gonna get any chai bought for him back in mumbai lets put it like that. 

Bell broke the laws. not to mention bringing the 'spirit of cricket' into disprepute by falsely claiming that Rauf called over. Rauf denies this btw. so does the bowler. so does the non-striker.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> the lying on the floor, the staring at the ball for a few seconds, then gently ambling over to it, before throwing it back? The ball's live and you do all that?


 
He had no idea where it was for ages (edit)... and even if he did think it might have gone out, he never signalled anything (as was claimed by some here, btw).


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> Sky have just shown Kumar throwing the ball back, with no signalling of four at all.  Dhoni is a mug.


 
I think you're being harsh. Dhoni has got mugged off. He's a mug for not appealing that lbw.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> ....well judging by the simplicity of your analysis that is clearly evident.



Learn the rules dickhead. Then talk to me. ignore... yawn.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> Are we really saying that a batsman who gets out doing something stupid should get the chance to have another go now?


 
Spirit of the game is getting people out by cricket, not by them mistakenly leaving their crease because they think the ball is dead.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> the lying on the floor, the staring at the ball for a few seconds, then gently ambling over to it, before throwing it back? The ball's live and you do all that?


 
Aye. If you don't know.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> I think you're being harsh. Dhoni has got mugged off. He's a mug for not appealing that lbw.


 
i'd have liked to see him try appealing that lbw


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> Didn't England withdraw that appeal against NZ when someone collided with a fielder?


 
oops, no it was Angelo Mathews for Sri Lanka that Strauss recalled.

gabi still a cock though


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Learn the rules dickhead. Then talk to me. ignore... yawn.



 Weak tosser


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> He had no idea where it was for ages (edit)... and even if he did think it might have gone out, he never signalled anything (as was claimed by some here, btw).



Depends what you define as a signal really. Does he have to wave his hand to clearly indicate/behave like it's a boundary?


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> yes. shut up gabi, you're a cock


 
actual lol. learn to read. dick.

Does anyone here remember Collingwood withdrawing that appeal?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Aye. If you don't know.


 
bollocks. A pro sportsman plays like the ball is live if he doesn't know.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> Spirit of the game is getting people out by cricket, not by them mistakenly leaving their crease because they think the ball is dead.


 
Morgan didnt do it, and if Bell had done the same this debate wouldnt be taking place.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> Are we really saying that a batsman who gets out doing something stupid should get the chance to have another go now?


 
If the opposition captain thinks so, then yes he should


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

One way sportsmanship. Pressure on India to display it none on bell. Standard.


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

What law did Bell break?


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> i'd have liked to see him try appealing that lbw


 
That's why he was a mug. Trott was out. Did he walk? No chance.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> actual lol. learn to read. dick.
> 
> Does anyone here remember Collingwood withdrawing that appeal?


 
fuck off, see my edit

ABE wannabe Aussie cockhead


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> Spirit of the game is getting people out by cricket, not by them mistakenly leaving their crease because they think the ball is dead.


I'll ask again, are fielders not allowed to feign mis-fields?


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> actual lol. learn to read. dick.
> 
> Does anyone here remember Collingwood withdrawing that appeal?


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> Depends what you define as a signal really. Does he have to wave his hand to clearly indicate/behave like it's a boundary?


 
Yes, at least in order for Bell to be able to claim he thought the ball was dead.  Kumar didnt do that - indeed he didnt appear to know where the ball was for some time - so Bell shouldnt get a pass.  To repeat myself, Morgan did not do what Bell did, and didnt get run out because of it.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> If the opposition captain thinks so, then yes he should


 
and then politely decline.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Spot the ABEs on here then 

We're evil, we'll just have to get used to it


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> fuck off, see my edit
> 
> ABE wannabe Aussie cockhead


 
lulz. oh dear.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> and then politely decline.


 
Not if he agrees with the opposition captain


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> If the opposition captain thinks so, then yes he should


 
Dhoni reversed his decision at the second time of asking, after Strauss and whatisface went to their dressing room.  Dhoni should have laughed at them, the effrontery of asking whether their man on 130-odd could get a reprieve in such circumstances.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> That's why he was a mug. Trott was out. Did he walk? No chance.


 
how exactly was dhoni going to appeal/review it?

when was the last time you saw a batsman walk for an lbw?


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> lulz. oh dear.


 
You're an actual idiot. Every post you ever make on cricket betrays this. You're an ABE moron


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> Yes, at least in order for Bell to be able to claim he thought the ball was dead.  Kumar didnt do that - indeed he didnt appear to know where the ball was for some time - so Bell shouldnt get a pass.  To repeat myself, Morgan did not do what Bell did, and didnt get run out because of it.



Look at the people round the stumps again, most of them are also behaving like they believe the ball is dead. Look at how slowly Dhoni turns and throws the ball to the stumps - that's someone who believes the ball is live?! People are picking up helmets, collecting jumpers, wandering off. Bell was certainly not the only one who believed the ball was most likely dead.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> Not if he agrees with the opposition captain



Stick to the rugger bugger stuff would be my advice


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> Not if he agrees with the opposition captain


 
Even. In these circs.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> Dhoni reversed his decision at the second time of asking, after Strauss and whatisface went to their dressing room.  Dhoni should have laughed at them, the effrontery of asking whether their man on 130-odd could get a reprieve in such circumstances.


 
Evidently he thought about it and agreed with them though. Hey ho, that's cricket eh


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> You're an actual idiot. Every post you ever make on cricket betrays this. You're an ABE moron


 
Riiiiight... So i know the facts. You don't. And... wait.. who's the moron?


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Even. In these circs.


 
You support India don't you?


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> Look at the people round the stumps again, most of them are also behaving like they believe the ball is dead. Look at how slowly Dhoni turns and throws the ball to the stumps - that's someone who believes the ball is live?! People are picking up helmets, collecting jumpers, wandering off. Bell was certainly not the only one who believed the ball was most likely dead.


 
i) Bell was all the way down the other end of the pitch, there wasnt exactly any urgency.
ii) why knock the stumps off with the ball if you didnt at least think there was a possibility of getting a runout?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

Look, if Kumar jumps straight back up, runs to the ball, and tosses it straight back, with any degree of urgency whatsoever, does anyone think that Bell would've left his ground?


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Riiiiight... So i know the facts. You don't. And... wait.. who's the moron?


 
You are. Vacuous idiot


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> Spot the ABEs on here then
> 
> We're evil, we'll just have to get used to it


Piss off, I want England to win but I still think Bell was the one who was in the wrong


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> You are. Vacuous idiot


 
Please. In the interests of this thread. Fuck off. thanks!

Now, back to the cricket.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> i) Bell was all the way down the other end of the pitch, there wasnt exactly any urgency.
> ii) why knock the stumps off with the ball if you didnt at least think there was a possibility of getting a runout?


 
i) So? In normal play, when the ball is live, you behave with urgency regardless of where the batsman is. ii) On the off-chance of a cheeky run-out?


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Please. In the interests of this thread. Fuck off. thanks!
> 
> Now, back to the cricket.



In the interests of the average IQ of these boards, kill yourself


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> how exactly was dhoni going to appeal/review it?
> 
> when was the last time you saw a batsman walk for an lbw?


 
DRS.

Sadly not often enough.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> In the interests of the average IQ of these boards, kill yourself


 
Cool, lets call it quits. Some fascinating cricket here.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> DRS.
> 
> Sadly not often enough.


 
so you wanted dhoni to review the lbw with DRS? shows what an avid cricket fan you are


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> DRS.
> 
> Sadly not often enough.


 
The DRS India refuse to allow to be used when they play? That one?


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Aye. Mugs.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> so you wanted dhoni to review the lbw with DRS? shows what an avid cricket fan you are


 
No. I said he was a mug for not allowing it.


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> i) So? In normal play, when the ball is live, you behave with urgency regardless of where the batsman is. ii) On the off-chance of a cheeky run-out?


 
As I said earlier, Kumar had no idea where the ball was for four or five seconds (at least), and was in the worst possible position to know whether the ball had hit the rope, given that he had gone face-first into the ground just beyond the boundary.  He might have assumed it was four, but he was in no position to know, and Bell should not have assumed that it had in the absence of a clear signal.  Morgan didnt, and didnt get run out.


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

Ha ha,  remember when Harbajahn couldn't review that Lbw yesterday and Broad got a hat-trick?


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Yep. Mugs.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> No. I said he was a mug for not allowing it.


 
no, you said he was a mug for not appealing it.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> As I said earlier, Kumar had no idea where the ball was for four or five seconds (at least), and was in the worst possible position to know whether the ball had hit the rope, given that he had gone face-first into the ground just beyond the boundary.  He might have assumed it was four, but he was in no position to know, and Bell should not have assumed that it had in the absence of a clear signal.  Morgan didnt, and didnt get run out.


 
Bell did and still didn't get run out as it happens


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> Ha ha,  remember when Harbajahn couldn't review that Lbw yesterday and Broad got a hat-trick?


 
That was hilarious


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

Kumar looking dangerous here. All seems to happen with the second new ball


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Jeez. Out again.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

agricola said:


> As I said earlier, Kumar had no idea where the ball was for four or five seconds (at least), and was in the worst possible position to know whether the ball had hit the rope, given that he had gone face-first into the ground just beyond the boundary.  He might have assumed it was four, but he was in no position to know, and Bell should not have assumed that it had in the absence of a clear signal.  Morgan didnt, and didnt get run out.


 
i think we all agree now (now we've worked out what actually happened) that bell was out according to the laws of the game and shouldn't have wandered out of his crease. dhoni absolutely did the correct thing though, by recalling the batsman. you want to have these kind of matches decided through cricket, not misunderstandings.

this is why you have the spirit of the game law.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> no, you said he was a mug for not appealing it.


 
Given that he couldn't appeal it... it doesn't take a genius to work out what I meant.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Jeez. Out again.


 
Or... not


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Kumar's fucking genius. Haven't seen someone swing it quite so beautifully since wasim...


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> i think we all agree now (now we've worked out what actually happened) that bell was out according to the laws of the game and shouldn't have wandered out of his crease. dhoni absolutely did the correct thing though, by recalling the batsman. you want to have these kind of matches decided through cricket, not misunderstandings.
> 
> this is why you have the spirit of the game law.


 
Dhoni did the decent thing... correct is not really relevant.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> i think we all agree now (now we've worked out what actually happened) that bell was out according to the laws of the game and shouldn't have wandered out of his crease. dhoni absolutely did the correct thing though, by recalling the batsman. you want to have these kind of matches decided through cricket, not misunderstandings.


So are fielders not allowed to feign mis-fields in an attempted to run people out (which I've seen happen) in your opinion


----------



## agricola (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> this is why you have the spirit of the game law.


 
The question is whether that fell within the spirit of the game, though.  I would have thought walking before being given out, being honest with regards to catches, whether something has hit the rope, not overappealing etc etc would be much more issues of the spirit of the game than this, which was (as has been recognized) Bells fault, and Bells fault alone.


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Dhoni did the decent thing... correct is not really relevant.



He did the decent thing. But undeniably Bell didn't.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> So are fielders not allowed to feign mis-fields in an attempted to run people out (which I've seen happen) in your opinion


 
It's questionable behaviour with regard to the spirit of the game. The spirit of the game which forms part of the rules these days


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Given that he couldn't appeal it... it doesn't take a genius to work out what I meant.



so when you said "He's a mug for not appealing that lbw" what you actually meant was, cricket india are mugs for not allowing the DRS system to be used for LBWs.

crystal clear mate.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

to anyone with a brain.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> to anyone with a brain.


 
stop wriggling


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Stop being such a pedant.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Feel a lil sad for Bell really. His highest test score - but very tainted really.


 
Did he not get 199 against South Africa?


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Stop being such a pedant.


 
well someone's got to correct you when you're wrong.


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Stop being such a pedant.


 
Stop pretending you know what you're talking about.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Did he not get 199 against South Africa?


 
Yeah he did


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Did he not get 199 against South Africa?



Yeh. dodgy stats on my part.


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Did he not get 199 against South Africa?


 
He did indeed but Gabi doesn't let facts get in the way of a post.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Lead almost 300 now. India haven't yet managed more than 288 in three innings in the series so far


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> well someone's got to correct you when you're wrong.


 
You want to call that wrong? Then you're displaying about as much sportsmanship as your team.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> You want to call that wrong? Then you're displaying about as much sportsmanship as your team.


 You're either wrong or express yourself very poorly tbh

300 ahead


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Yeh. dodgy stats on my part.


 
Ah yeah, sorry did not read rest of thread.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> You're either wrong or express yourself very poorly tbh
> 
> 300 ahead


 
Or both


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

My statement was that he was not a mug for his decision... he was mugged off. He is a mug for that decision to not appeal lbw's.

I express myself fine. Any problems in translation are yours.


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> My statement was that he was not a mug for his decision... he was mugged off. He is a mug for that decision to not appeal lbw's.
> 
> I express myself fine. Any problems in translation are yours.


 
Still wriggling then?, admit you were wrong, we'll accept your apology, go on.......


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jul 31, 2011)

pain in the arse the england tail. You expend all that energy and two new balls getting rid of the batsmen, and you've still got 3 decent wickets to get...


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Prior letting the air out of India's tyres once again and showing them that it is possible to bat past number five in the order


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> You want to call that wrong? Then you're displaying about as much sportsmanship as your team.


 
england have shown themselves to be perfectly good sports. in last controversial run out situation england faced, strauss called the batsman back when by all accounts, it was the sri lankan player's fault.

why not just admit that this was the best outcome for all situations? dhoni has upheld the spirit of the game, while bell scored a few more runs then dutifully got out to avoid any bad blood. sterling work from everyone


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> england have shown themselves to be perfectly good sports. in last controversial run out situation england faced, strauss called the batsman back when by all accounts, it was the sri lankan player's fault.
> 
> why not just admit that this was the best outcome for all situations? dhoni has upheld the spirit of the game, while bell scored a few more runs then dutifully got out to avoid any bad blood. sterling work from everyone



Yeah but we're the comedy bad guys and we don't even dutifully roll over for everyone these days. If we keep this form up they're REALLY going to hate us


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> Lead almost 300 now. India haven't yet managed more than 288 in three innings in the series so far


 
It looks good doesn't it? Think they should be able to put up 400+ today.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Badgers said:


> It looks good doesn't it? Think they should be able to put up 400+ today.


 
Innings like this are becoming standard tbh. If we don't get 400+ then there's usually something else good like the 97 runs added for the last two wickets the other day.

We're not all out until we are


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> My statement was that he was not a mug for his decision... he was mugged off. He is a mug for that decision to not appeal lbw's.
> 
> I express myself fine. Any problems in translation are yours.


 
no, you're statement was "He's a mug for not appealing that lbw" which is either wrong or incredibly badly worded. trying to imply that i'm either thick for not realising that you meant something completely different, or a pedant for calling you out on you being wrong is incredibly bad form, and really not in the spirit of this thread. do the honourable thing and apologise!


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

What was the statement before? Context.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 31, 2011)

Don't let him kizmet a good thread please people.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> england have shown themselves to be perfectly good sports. in last controversial run out situation england faced, strauss called the batsman back when by all accounts, it was the sri lankan player's fault.
> 
> why not just admit that this was the best outcome for all situations? dhoni has upheld the spirit of the game, while bell scored a few more runs then dutifully got out to avoid any bad blood. sterling work from everyone


 
Proud of the Indian team. Although their bowling attack is piss poor.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> i think we all agree now (now we've worked out what actually happened) that bell was out according to the laws of the game and shouldn't have wandered out of his crease. dhoni absolutely did the correct thing though, by recalling the batsman.


 
I couldn't agree less. The only player at fault from start to finish was Bell.

He even lied and said that the umpire had called over even though the replay with sound proved that over was only called after the bails were dropped. So Bell was already almost at the other end before he could have heard anything of the sort. 

Warnie commented on Sky that Bell had tried to blag it.

Dhoni's an idiot.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Good point being made on Test Match Sofa - new ball and England are smashing it around with the tail. 

Mental disintegration


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Don't let him kizmet a good thread please people.


 
Four people hassling me over a single sentence... and yet you accuse me of kizmetizing the thread?

You'd make a very talented bully, bigot or racist, you know.

Ever considered it?


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

50 off 38 balls for Desperate Dan


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> Innings like this are becoming standard tbh. If we don't get 400+ then there's usually something else good like the 97 runs added for the last two wickets the other day.
> 
> We're not all out until we are


 
Indeed you are right and Prior batting well


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Four people hassling me over a single sentence... and yet you accuse me of kizmetizing the thread?
> 
> You'd make a very talented bully, bigot or racist, you know.
> 
> Ever considered it?


 
Oh Jesus


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> I couldn't agree less. The only player at fault from start to finish was Bell.
> 
> He even lied and said that the umpire had called over even though the replay with sound proved that over was only called after the bails were dropped. So Bell was already almost at the other end before he could have heard anything of the sort.
> 
> Warnie commented on Sky that Bell had tried to blag it.


 
Ah... but England are the Comedy bad guys, remember. It's meant to be funny when they tell fibs.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Don't let him kizmet a good thread please people.


 
good point. it's a shame that these indian fans have no grace. let's move on.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Ah... but England are the Comedy bad guys, remember. It's meant to be funny when they tell fibs.


 
No, it's just funny when ABE tossers go on and on and on about how nasty we are

Ishant Sharma's fucking shit btw. Wouldn't get anywhere near the world's best Test side. That's England by the way


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Four people hassling me over a single sentence... and yet you accuse me of kizmetizing the thread?
> 
> You'd make a very talented bully, bigot or racist, you know.
> 
> Ever considered it?



You've just been pulled up on not knowing what you're talking about and then trying to make out you meant something else, just apologise, admit you were wrong and we can all move on.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> You've just been pulled up on not knowing what you're talking about and then trying to make out you meant something else, just apologise, admit you were wrong and we can all move on.


 
Saying it doesn't make it true. Sorry.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Prior/Bresnan partnership going at over 6 an over


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> No, it's just funny when ABE tossers go on and on and on about how nasty we are
> 
> Ishant Sharma's fucking shit btw. Wouldn't get anywhere near the world's best Test side. That's England by the way


 
Not nasty... and I'm an England man apart from against India.

Just not sportsmanlike anymore. As witnessed here.


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Saying it doesn't make it true. Sorry.


 
Apology accepted, well done. 

Now.....what a smashing game of cricket this is hey?


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> good point. it's a shame that these indian fans have no grace. let's move on.


 
....


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Ah... but England are the Comedy bad guys, remember. It's meant to be funny when they tell fibs.



No I don't think that, and I'm neutral as far as this series is concerned, although I'm hoping to see just one more big innings from Tendulkar. Bell played a marvelous innings, but it's tainted by his stupidity on the strip and his behaviour afterwards. He tried to cheat and Dhoni let him get away with it.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Apology accepted, well done.
> 
> Now.....what a smashing game of cricket this is hey?


 
How did you manage to get to 37 with the mind of an 11 year old?


----------



## gabi (Jul 31, 2011)

Oi! Cricket's a fucking wonderful game. Let's stop being such cunts to each other.

This game's dead though in reality. England will knock em over by stumps tomorrow. Damp squib this series. England are the best the world by a huge fuckin margin.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Not nasty... and I'm an England man apart from against India.
> 
> Just not sportsmanlike anymore. As witnessed here.


 
One of the features of this England side that is often remarked upon by many informed cricket fans of all nationalities is what a largely decent set of chaps they are. In contrast to most of the Australian sides of the last 25 years say, or the BCCI for running scared of the UDRS for example


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> No I don't think that, and I'm neutral as far as this series is concerned, although I'm hoping to see just one more big innings from Tendulkar. Bell played a marvelous innings, but it's tainted by his stupidity on the strip and his behaviour afterwards. He tried to cheat and Dhoni let him get away with it.


 
I agree... the comedy bad guy bit was someone else's comment.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> Prior/Bresnan partnership going at over 6 an over


 
Smashing it with 6 wickets down.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Oi! Cricket's a fucking wonderful game. Let's stop being such cunts to each other.
> 
> This game's dead though in reality. England will knock em over by stumps tomorrow. Damp squib this series. England are the best the world by a huge fuckin margin.


 
Dunno about huge margin. Not yet.

Give it a year or two and it will be


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

Why is Yuvraj bowling with a new ball?


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Better a youthful mind than one full of lies and ignorance such as yours.


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> One of the features of this England side that is often remarked upon by many informed cricket fans of all nationalities is what a largely decent set of chaps they are. In contrast to most of the Australian sides of the last 25 years say, or the BCCI for running scared of the UDRS for example


 
The mongol hordes were decent compared to that lot.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> Why is Yuvraj bowling with a new ball?


 
Because Dhoni is a shocking captain at times


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> How did you manage to get to 37 with the mind of an 11 year old?


 

Better a youthful mind than one full of lies and ignorance such as yours.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> Oi! Cricket's a fucking wonderful game. Let's stop being such cunts to each other.
> 
> This game's dead though in reality. England will knock em over by stumps tomorrow. Damp squib this series. England are the best the world by a huge fuckin margin.


 
#1 if they win this test yeah?


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

England have scored nearly 400 runs today


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Better a youthful mind than one full of lies and ignorance such as yours.


 
There's youthful... and then there's infantile.... and then there's you.


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

Badgers said:


> #1 if they win this test yeah?


 
they need to win the whole series by 2 tests. the rankings don't get calculated til the end of the series


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Badgers said:


> #1 if they win this test yeah?


 
Not quite - need to win by two clear Tests so if we win here then we'd be top if we win the third Test, or draw the third and fourth


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Better a youthful mind than one full of lies and ignorance such as yours.


 
So young and yet already suffering from forgetfulness...


----------



## Utopia (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> There's youthful... and then there's infantile.... and then there's you.


 

So that would make me neither youthful or infantile then!, idiot, again your lack of intelligence and poor literacy skills are quite clear.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

strung out said:


> they need to win the whole series by 2 tests. the rankings don't get calculated til the end of the series


 
Gotcha


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

Utopia said:


> So that would make me neither youthful or infantile then!, idiot, again your lack of intelligence and poor literacy skills are quite clear.


 
What comes next in the series?


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> What comes next in the series?


 
Edgbaston, 10th August, 3-0

[/deadpan]


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

embree said:


> England have scored nearly 400 runs today


 
There you go, over 400 runs in the day for England. Pretty good stuff


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

It's funny cos it's true.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

What happened with the fish?


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

100 partnership


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

100 partnership up in 18 overs! 417 runs in the day, 374 ahead with four wickets to come and two days to go.

We can bat on tomorrow, leave them 450+ to win in 4/5 sessions and basically win with time to spare. Hopefully


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Cricinfo live commentary:



> England dominated 90 overs of day three. India were the better team in the 20 minute tea-break.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 31, 2011)

Just got in. Missed anything?


----------



## strung out (Jul 31, 2011)

not much


----------



## paulhackett (Jul 31, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Grieg actually did do something similar and Jardine probably would have given the chance.



Yup.. Trinidad 73/74 against Kallicharaan.. idiot

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/144678.html


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

Badgers said:


> What happened with the fish?


 
THIS?


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Just got in. Missed anything?


 
Bad sportsmanship from India corrected by a sensible backtrack from Dhoni


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

Young Mr Bell didn't sound too convincing when Wardie interviewed him, did he? 

Ward: "We heard you say that 'over' had been called, as you came off"

Bell: "Errrr hmmmm, you know .... it was confusing .... but it was a good days play ....."


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

Crucial insight from Swann via Twitter: "The big issue about 'the run out that wasn't' hasn't been mentioned yet. I had already started a cheese sandwich, so it was definitely tea."


----------



## Kizmet (Jul 31, 2011)

That man was born with a cheese sandwich in his mouth.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 31, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Just got in. Missed anything?



Brilliant innings from Ian Bell, somewhat marred by his attempt to cover-up an _absolute howler_ by lying, and Dhoni, astonishingly, letting him get away with it.


----------



## Santino (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Brilliant innings from Ian Bell, somewhat marred by his attempt to cover-up an _absolute howler_ by lying, and Dhoni, astonishingly, letting him get away with it.


 
This unbiased post of pure fact is your guide to what happened.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 31, 2011)

There was some fish action too


----------



## trampie (Jul 31, 2011)

trampie said:


> I wonder if there will be a stewarts enquiry into the result ?, have England got their wish of having English only umpires to officiate all their test matches yet ?, I know they had it changed to neutral umpires back in the day but then they wanted it changed again so only English umpires umpire England, you couldnt make it up could you.
> 
> Remember when the whinging Poms moaned so much that the outcome of a test series was changed because of their moaning when they played in Sri Lanka a few years ago, I effectively gave up on cricket after that, disgraceful.
> Sri Lanka won the first test and got some decisions go their way, the English went nuts, they made such a song and dance about not getting the rub of the green that the umpires gave every decision too England for the remaining two test matches, the pressure put on them was terrible, if the test series had run its normal course Sri Lanka would have won 2-0, but because of whinging, England won 2-1.



Same old England always whinging 
Here is a serious question for you, would most England captains over the years allowed a player that was legitimately run out, back in to bat ?, imo most England captains would not have had the player reinstated.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 31, 2011)

gabi said:


> England are the best the world by a huge fuckin margin.


jesus, let's not get ahead of ourselves! I thank you for those kind words from the antipodean end, but they really haven't earnt that title - _yet._


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 31, 2011)

trampie said:


> Same old England always whinging
> Here is a serious question for you, would most England captains over the years allowed a player that was legitimately run out, back in to bat ?, imo most England captains would not have had the player reinstated.


if you actually bothered to read the thread - if your chronic ABEism doesn't get in the way of doing so - you'll find the current England captain showed similar sportsmanship to MS Dhoni's, against sri Lanka, a couple of years ago.
For my part, I'd simply say that Dhoni has just won the Sportsman Of The Series. technically, he was right to appeal, but the spirit of the game was to withdraw the appeal, and be the better man for it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Brilliant innings from Ian Bell, somewhat marred by his attempt to cover-up an _absolute howler_ by lying, and Dhoni, astonishingly, letting him get away with it.


 
Hmmm. Very naughty of Bell to claim the ump had called over. He seemed quite sheepishly contrite in the Channel 5 interview. Still, well done to Dhoni for calling him back. Despite what some have said on this thread, there's little doubt Strauss would have done the same. Bell was very stupid, though.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jul 31, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> For my part, I'd simply say that Dhoni has just won the Sportsman Of The Series. technically, he was right to appeal, but the spirit of the game was to withdraw the appeal, and be the better man for it.


 
Respect is due but he would of had other motives at heart. The crowd would of been unbearable for the rest of the series and our bowlers would have been revved up.


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

trampie said:


> Same old England always whinging
> Here is a serious question for you, would most England captains over the years allowed a player that was legitimately run out, back in to bat ?, imo most England captains would not have had the player reinstated.


 
you're mental


----------



## embree (Jul 31, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Brilliant innings from Ian Bell, somewhat marred by his attempt to cover-up an _absolute howler_ by lying, and Dhoni, astonishingly, letting him get away with it.


 
you're mental too


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

England declare at lunch I guess. Enjoyed the cricket yesterday, would like to see today's play but sadly work gets in the way


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 1, 2011)

Still can't believe England scored more than 400 yesterday.. Top effort by Bell (up till the time he was out the first time) but fuck me he doesn't help himself.. he would have been better off accepting he was out and spared himself the reaction.



> what a miserable, measly, robotic, graceless statement from Ian Bell. what an empty, poke-eyed, pointless little man.



I couldn't be more impressed by Dravid. Hope for the game, he and the others dig in today and tomorrow..


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Still can't believe England scored more than 400 yesterday.


 
Run rate was pretty fantastic!


----------



## gabi (Aug 1, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Still can't believe England scored more than 400 yesterday.. Top effort by Bell (up till the time he was out the first time) but fuck me he doesn't help himself.. he would have been better off accepting he was out and spared himself the reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't be more impressed by Dravid. Hope for the game, he and the others dig in today and tomorrow..



Was a shitty situation for everyone involved. Best forgotten. Bell would've looked stupid whatever happened after the initial fuck-up. Not sure why he was briefing journos at tea that he'd heard Rauf call over though.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Is there a better live runs/scorecard update feed than the BBC website?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2011)

cricinfo


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Cheers


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 1, 2011)

Right, fucking _declare_.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Exciting first few overs, wish I was watching


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Right, fucking _declare_.


 
One last boundary


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 1, 2011)

So we're going for a draw?

FFs.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> One last boundary


 
Hopefully


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

There are still almost two days left.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 1, 2011)

The lead is 402.

Declare!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

No way!


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

Pointless declaring now. If you think you need almost six sessions to bowl them out, then you think they might bat for long enough to score 400 runs.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 1, 2011)

Indeed.

Plus Bresnan's having fun, let's demoralise them a little more.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

At this run rate I think they should stay in, at least until lunch.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> At this run rate I think they should stay in, at least until lunch.


 
Maybe just let Bresnan get a hundred


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> Pointless declaring now. If you think you need almost six sessions to bowl them out, then you think they might bat for long enough to score 400 runs.





.....as it's Monday I thought it was the last day. The shame.


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> .....as it's Monday I thought it was the last day. The shame.


 
*points* 

Shame! Shame!


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 1, 2011)

.....but this means we're gunna get a result


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)




----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2011)

The Octagon said:


> Maybe just let Bresnan get a hundred


 
Should be along in ten minutes or so, at the rate he is going.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 1, 2011)

Jesus, 500 on this pitch. I know it's flattened out but even so.


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2011)

This is embarassing.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Indian chap at work is very quiet today


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Think Broad might chalk up 100 before Bresnan


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 1, 2011)

Cricket know-nothing:

Phil Tufnell just said "That's not even pies - it's flan, it's flan of the flan!". Erm, what?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Pie-throwing. It's intended to indicate that the bowling is awful. See also 'cafeteria bowling': help yourself.

It's a shame. India have fallen apart since the Bell incident.


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> Cricket know-nothing:
> 
> Phil Tufnell just said "That's not even pies - it's flan, it's flan of the flan!". Erm, what?


 
He probably meant pie chucking, or things worse in terms of bowling.  Warne et al have been making much the same point - albeit with ideas of free food - on Sky, especially for the Yuvraj and Raina "bowling".


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 1, 2011)

Ah, cheers


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

Boycott pronounces 'Nicky Campbell' as 'Nicky Camp Bell' lol.


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2011)

That was even more brilliant because of the haze of shit that surrounded it.  Astonishing fielding.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

agricola said:


> That was even more brilliant because of the haze of shit that surrounded it.  Astonishing fielding.


 
No coincidence that it was the sub fielder. Probably the only Indian who's pleased to be out there.


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2011)

A collapse!


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Blimey!!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

fun's over. Right. Serious stuff starts now. Should have declared nine-down.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 1, 2011)

What the hell just happened?! Same old England  We're doomed, doooooomed!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Don't see the point in this now. Swann's injured and Anderson is a 'walking defence'-style tailender.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 1, 2011)

Looking for 550? It's a nice round number I suppose 

e2a: or 555 - maybe he's a film fan.


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Don't see the point in this now. Swann's injured and Anderson is a 'walking defence'-style tailender.


 
Exactly.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Don't see the point in this now. Swann's injured and Anderson is a 'walking defence'-style tailender.


 
Is lunch at 1pm? If Anderson and Swann can just scrape 20 odd runs and leave India with a target of 500 it would be a nice end to the innings.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Is lunch at 1pm? If Anderson and Swann can just scrape 20 odd runs and leave India with a target of 500 it would be a nice end to the innings.


 
That makes this a good time to declare, imo. You get half an hour before lunch and then 40 minutes for the opening bowlers to rest up before they have another go. Ideal, really. This is pointless now. 3 runs in 3 overs so far.


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Is lunch at 1pm? If Anderson and Swann can just scrape 20 odd runs and leave India with a target of 500 it would be a nice end to the innings.


 
Better to throw India in, blaze away at them for 20 mins, maybe take a wicket or two and then have a rest after lunch IMHO.  This is just pointless.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 1, 2011)

Time for a bowl at them before lunch if we declare now?

Or straight to lunch?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 1, 2011)

Strauss has a history of waiting to declare, doesn't he? Sure this sort of thing has gone on before - seems rather cautious in these situations.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

From the http://www.espncricinfo.com text update:



> By the way, this is the second-highest score India have conceded in second innings of Tests. The highest is *Pakistan's 5999 for 7 decl*. in Karachi in 2005-06



Typo?


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

It's possible that there're some calculations going on about when the second new ball would be due. Or Strauss is just thinking, fuck it, let's keep them out there getting tired and demoralised.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 1, 2011)

Yeah I don't know why he doesn't declare, he did the same thing in the last Sri Lanka test, there was 10+ minutes of faffing about for 3 runs. It's bizarre


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Perhaps they want to give Kumar his five-fer. Can't see any other reason.

4 in 4 overs now.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Right, well that was a waste of time. Hope Swann avoided further injury. That period of play made no sense whatever.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Couple of quick wickets before lunch would cheer us all up, ideally Dravid being one of them


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Right, well that was a waste of time. Hope Swann avoided further injury. That period of play made no sense whatever.



Flattening out pitch? Good batting conditions? Strong Indian batting line up? A lot of time left? England 3 bowlers? Swann injured? Trott injured? Who is the 4th bowler etc.? Bat time..?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Swann is injured. You need a good reason to risk further injury, imo. The Indians will quite rightly have been aiming at his hands.

Anyway, imo stupid decision, but hopefully no harm done.


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Swann is injured. You need a good reason to risk further injury, imo. The Indians will quite rightly have been aiming at his hands.
> 
> Anyway, imo stupid decision, but hopefully no harm done.



Should bowlers always be aiming at other bowlers' hands?


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 1, 2011)

Aaaaaargh.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> Should bowlers always be aiming at other bowlers' hands?


 
Eh? 

If a batsman comes out injured, the bowler aims for that injury, whatever it is. That's entirely legitimate. 

In this case, Swann has an injured hand, so the bowlers aim short-pitched stuff at his body.


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Eh?
> 
> If a batsman comes out injured, the bowler aims for that injury, whatever it is. That's entirely legitimate.


 
So it is legitimate to target the other players at all times in order to injure them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> So it is legitimate to target the other players at all times in order to injure them.


 
Read what I wrote. It is legitimate to target a player's injury if he comes out to bat injured. It is legitimate to use that player's injury against him. If he doesn't want that to happen, he shouldn't come out to bat with his injury.

This isn't a 'spirit of the game' kind of issue.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Read what I wrote. It is legitimate to target a player's injury if he comes out to bat injured. It is legitimate to use that player's injury against him. If he doesn't want that to happen, he shouldn't come out to bat with his injury.
> 
> This isn't a 'spirit of the game' kind of issue.



So it is legitimate to target the other players at all times in order to injure them?


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm curious about a spirit of gamesmanship that suggests it is MORE legitimate to target an already-injured player than a non-injured one. Is this what you're saying?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

India were 14/1 to win at the end of the England innings, now dropped to 11/1


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> I'm curious about a spirit of gamesmanship that suggests it is MORE legitimate to target an already-injured player than a non-injured one. Is this what you're saying?


 
You exploit the fact of the injury to maximise your chances of getting the player out. Any player has the choice of not going out to bat with an injury.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 1, 2011)

There's some rather interesting cricket going on when you've all finished....

Umpire saved us a review there


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You exploit the fact of the injury to maximise your chances of getting the player out. Any player has the choice of not going out to bat with an injury.


 
Are you going to answer my question or are you going to play at being David Cameron? Is it somehow more legitimate to try to hit an injured player with the ball than it is a non-injured player?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> India were 14/1 to win at the end of the England innings, now dropped to 11/1


 
Now 10/1 
Am I missing something?


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 1, 2011)

Dravid gone

Great wicket for England.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> Are you going to answer my question or are you going to play at being David Cameron? Is it somehow more legitimate to try to hit an injured player with the ball than it is a non-injured player?



It is no more legititmate to hit one than the other - but hitting a batsman is legitimate


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Dravid gone
> 
> Great wicket for England.


 
Perfect start and that man Broad again!!


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

What are the odds now, Badgers?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> What are the odds now, Badgers?


 
16/1


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Right, lunchtime for the cricket and I am doing the same


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> It is no more legititmate to hit one than the other - but hitting a batsman is legitimate


 
Maybe I phrased this badly. Aiming for the batsman's body is legitimate. This isn't baseball. Aiming at his throat area can be particularly effective. And using the fact of a batsman's injury as a factor in deciding that you are going to aim for his body is also entirely legitimate. You're not aiming to injure him. You're aiming to get him out. Perhaps to use the fact that he'll be keen to protect that injury against him. If the batsman is injured further, that's his fault. He could always have decided not to come out to bat. 

And given the match situation, I thought it was a very bad decision to send out Anderson to accompany Swann. No good reason to risk further injury to Swann, and every reason to expect Indian bowlers to aim at Swann's body because he was injured.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Maybe I phrased this badly.


 
No no.. it was quite clear..

If a batsman's gone in the groin you may want to make him stretch for the ball.
If he was crocked like Rick McCosker in the Centenary Test you may want to test his mettle.. will he do a Tufnell and be walking backwards towards the square leg umpire.. India pretty much ceded a Test back in 76 in the WI when they were 6? down and had 3 batsmen absent injured.. will a batsman bottle it (for whatever reason).


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

Bosh!


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Indian fellow in the office just stuck £5 on (33/1) India to win


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Indian fellow in the office just stuck £5 on (33/1) India to win


 
Shite odds. Add a zero to that 33 and you might have some value.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Shite odds.


 
Innit! 

He should've kept his fiver!


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 1, 2011)

Bresnan's having a very good day!

No good to Tendulkar if he stays in and we systematically remove the players around him


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Shite odds


 
31/3 (13.5 ov) 

Do you think?


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 1, 2011)

You fucking beauty!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> 31/3 (13.5 ov)
> 
> Do you think?


 
37/4. If India win from here, that might count as the greatest sporting miracle ever. No just in cricket, but any sport.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> 37/4. If India win from here, that might count as the greatest sporting miracle ever. No just in cricket, but any sport.


 
If only he had held on for half an hour, he would have got 100/1 odds


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Indian fellow in the office just stuck £5 on (33/1) India to win


 
I'd want close to that for India to take this into the last day, let alone win.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> If only he had held on for half an hour, he would have got 100/1 odds


 
Add two zeros to that. At least.

England have won now. As Spymaster says, India will be doing very well just to take it into the last day.


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 1, 2011)

tonked.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

55 runs up, 5 wickets down, unlikely to make the 5th day and his £5 bet is looking like a great fail


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

Bresnan hat-trick?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Dhoni


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Bresnan hat-trick?


 
Someone give me odds!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Someone give me odds!


 
depends who's facing! 

I'll give you 10-1.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 1, 2011)

They'll be desperate to get Harbhajan on strike for Bresnan's first ball of the next over 

Well, maybe not desperate, this is turning into a rout.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

The Octagon said:


> They'll be desperate to get Harbhajan on strike for Bresnan's first ball of the next over


 If he's still there.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> depends who's facing!
> 
> I'll give you 10-1.


 
Done for a quid!

Come on Tim!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Done for a quid!


 
Alright. For the server fund!


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Odds on India out with under 100 runs?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

What a shite hat trick ball!!!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Odds on India out with under 100 runs?


 
Not taking that bet.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> What a shite hat trick ball!!!


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

Can anyone find odds on a series whitewash?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Can anyone find odds on a series whitewash?



http://www.oddschecker.com/cricket/england-v-india/england-v-india-tests/england-india-tests/series-correct-scorehttp://

Only showing on Betfair atm, at 57/25.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Can anyone find odds on a series whitewash?



5/1.. in from 17/2 on Friday..


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 1, 2011)

Any context, qualifiers or caveats to this? Because seriously, India are first in the world, right?


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

They're without their opening pair and their best bowler, to be fair.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

That's the nature of momentum in a test. Twice in this match, India looked like taking control. It's been a remarkable test.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> They're without their opening pair and their best bowler, to be fair.


From the BBC text:



> "I hope India have a full strength team for the final games. It's like winning a major without  Tiger Woods in it. No Sehwag, Gambhir, Khan and no bowling from Harbhajan all day yesterday."





> "Beating India in this series with Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman is like winning a major with Palmer, Watson and Nicklaus in the field."


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> They're without their opening pair and their best bowler, to be fair.


 
And they're playing (read: capitulating to) the best England side for a very long time. If Tremlett is fit for the next test will he even get back in the team if Trott's not injured????


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Tendulkar off and they surely can't hold on till the end of the day


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 1, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Respect is due but he would of had other motives at heart. The crowd would of been unbearable for the rest of the series and our bowlers would have been revved up.


very cynical of you, but prolly true, however he still did a thoroughly decent thing, and should be hailed for it


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

Good sign in the crowd held by some Asian/Brits,

"Come on IND_ERLAND!"


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> So it is legitimate to target the other players at all times in order to injure them?


that's not wot lbj said; it IS legitimate to target already-ascertained injuries, rather than create them.
Anyway, if we're talking about bowling to injure, whaddabout the Windies in the 70s?


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 1, 2011)

This is an utterly fucking class England performance. bresnan got a five-for


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

The commentators taking the piss out of little Scott Elstone:

"He'll be celebrating his catches with his mates down the youth club tonight",

"Yeah, with a glass of lemonade and a packet of wine gums".


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 1, 2011)

Well thats all over in 4 days.  Great days to be an England fan.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 1, 2011)

Score?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Score?



Eng -221 + 544, Ind - 288 + 158.

England win by 319 runs.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 1, 2011)

Ian Bell got one more run in the second innings than India. Also England got 240 runs in the match from numbers 8,9 and 10. Very impressive team performance.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Biggest margin of victory for a team with a first-innings deficit? Must be close to it.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 1, 2011)

fucking top 2nd bowl from England there. When you think this was without Tremlett, it makes it all the better. 
Bet MS Dhoni's getting it from his team-mates


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 1, 2011)

Tough selection call for England for the next match if Tremlett, Swann and Trott are all fit.

I can see India picking both Sehwag and Zaheer even if they're not fully fit, they need to do something.


----------



## TheDave (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The commentators taking the piss out of little Scott Elstone:
> 
> "He'll be celebrating his catches with his mates down the youth club tonight",
> 
> "Yeah, with a glass of lemonade and a packet of wine gums".


 
Lol, quality. Glad the lad got the catch a few balls after the missed one. You could see how relieved he was, especially as he nearly fucked it up.

Great performance by England, I tend to drift in and out of my interest in Cricket but this series has got me totally gripped. The bowling has been simply awesome. Can't wait till next Wednesday now.


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Right, well that was a waste of time. Hope Swann avoided further injury. That period of play made no sense whatever.


 
India use heavy roller before their innings, come in for a couple of overs, lunch, off for forty minutes, heavy roller's effect is minimised


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

Lots of players I've doubted in the past storming through at the moment. 

Too many to name individually, but well done all of you.


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> Any context, qualifiers or caveats to this? Because seriously, India are first in the world, right?


 
India couldn't be arsed to get match fit


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's the nature of momentum in a test. Twice in this match, India looked like taking control. It's been a remarkable test.


 
tbh I think 'momentum' is a horrendous cliche with very little meaning to it at all


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

TheDave said:


> Lol, quality. Glad the lad got the catch a few balls after the missed one. You could see how relieved he was, especially as he nearly fucked it up.



The one he dropped would've been a great catch if he'd made it, tbf. But yes, I was holding my breath for him when the Harbhajan one went up. Everyone's dropped a few of those, you've got way too long to think about fucking it up!


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Lots of players I've doubted in the past storming through at the moment.
> 
> Too many to name individually, but well done all of you.


want some chips with that humble pie?


----------



## trampie (Aug 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> Same old England always whinging
> Here is a serious question for you, would most England captains over the years allowed a player that was legitimately run out, back in to bat ?, imo most England captains would not have had the player reinstated.



Here's evidence...
Remember 3 years ago when Paul Collingwood was captain of England, Collingwoods fast bowler collided with a New Zealand batsman that was taking an easy run, the New Zealander was left injured in the middle of the pitch, not just knocked over but injuried, England run him out with the batsmen flat on the floor clearly in need of urgent medical attention after been flattened by the English bowler, the umpire went upto to the England captain and put both hands on the England captains shoulders and asked him if he was still claiming the batsmens wicket, at this stage the batsman if I remember correctly was still flat on the floor receiving medical attention, the English captain said he was claiming the wicket.


----------



## trampie (Aug 1, 2011)

Douglas Jardine - Bodyline
Mike Gatting - Shakoor Rana
Nassar Hussain - Sri Lanka 2000-01
Mike Atherton - Dirt in the pocket
Paul Collingwood - New Zealand 2008

All England captains at the time and all incidents off the top of my head.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

What do you think of today's performance, Trampie?


----------



## trampie (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> What do you think of today's performance, Trampie?


I havent seen it, I more or less gave up on cricket after Englands tour of Sri Lanka in 2000/1, it was the final straw for me,  having followed cricket closely for many years prior to that.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> I havent seen it ......



You missed some good cricket.


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> Douglas Jardine - Bodyline
> Mike Gatting - Shakoor Rana
> Nassar Hussain - Sri Lanka 2000-01
> Mike Atherton - Dirt in the pocket
> ...


 
Well you can stick Bodyline up your hole for a start, nothing but a load of Aussies whinging cos they were getting beat


----------



## trampie (Aug 1, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> You missed some good cricket.


 
No controversy today then I take it, the only action I have seen from the match was Broads hattrick, including a LBW that clearly hit the bat before hitting the batsman's pad and the Bell run out, where inexplicably to me {and im all for fair play}, Bell was allowed another go.


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> No controversy today then I take it, the only action I have seen from the match was Broads hattrick, including a LBW that clearly hit the bat before hitting the batsman's pad and the Bell run out, where inexplicably to me {and im all for fair play}, Bell was allowed another go.


 
lbw - who cares, under UDRS it wouldn't have been given out. Who doesn't want to use UDRS? Oh yeah. lol
The Bell thing may have been inexplicable to you but you weren't deciding on it. MS Dhoni was and he decided to withdraw the appeal. There you go, blame him.


----------



## trampie (Aug 1, 2011)

embree said:


> Well you can stick Bodyline up your hole for a start, nothing but a load of Aussies whinging cos they were getting beat


One Australian had a fractured skull {no helmets and little padding in those days}, one Australian got hit in the heart, several Australians got hit in the body and head, there was a very real fear that somebody could have been killed, the Australian captain refused to retaliate with the same tactic, the English fast bowlers bowled bouncer after bouncer at the body of the Australians, a dirty low trick, if ever there was one.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 1, 2011)

trampie said:


> No controversy today then I take it, the only action I have seen from the match was Broads hattrick, including a LBW that clearly hit the bat before hitting the batsman's pad and the Bell run out, where inexplicably to me {and im all for fair play}, Bell was allowed another go.



Shite lbw's happen, and I tend to agree with you regarding the Bell incident, but you seem to have a strange attitude to cricket if you're simply controversy hunting.


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

A somewhat hyperbolic account of what actually happened, largely attributable to the Australian press and public hysteria over these accounts of cricket they couldn't actually see.

Try reading David Frith's excellent Bodyline Autopsy for a more measured interpretation.


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

embree said:


> A somewhat hyperbolic account of what actually happened, largely attributable to the Australian press and public hysteria over these accounts of cricket they couldn't actually see.
> 
> Try reading David Frith's excellent Bodyline Autopsy for a more measured interpretation.


 
I'll expand further then:

No serious injuries occurred on that tour while the Leg Theory field was set. Short pitched bowling in itself is not illegal, never has been, and was used as a tactic long before the 1932/33 Ashes series. You may remember a few West Indians bowling short and fast at helmetless Englishmen in the 1970s.

Leg Theory itself was not new, nor was it illegal. It had been used sporadically for many decades previously, including by Learie Constantine, by various Australian bowlers in Sheffield Shield cricket and in the English county game.

A combination of England possessing the finest fast bowler ever to draw breath, Jardine being deeply unpopular in Australia (the feeling was mutual) and England's uncompromising use of fast bowlers led to a mounting hysteria in Australia over the tactics. Bill Woodfull was struck over the heart by a short lifting ball _bowled to an entirely conventional field_ and which he appeared to misjudge, being hit as he was bent over rather than whilst standing upright. In other words, the ball was short, but not that short and the so called Bodyline tactics  were NOT in place when this occurred.

Bert Oldfield's skull was fractured when he mishit a hook off Larwood. Again, this was bowled to an orthodox, non bodyline, field and Oldfield admitted that he had made a mistake when playing the shot.

The facts simply don't bear out the alleged horrors perpetrated by Jardine and Larwood and you're a clown for falling for this bullshit.


----------



## TheDave (Aug 1, 2011)

Wasn't Bresnan's bouncers from today in similar style to what you're describing embree? Hard, fast, short balls bowled to batters with no ability to deal with them.


----------



## Santino (Aug 1, 2011)

Remember when Michael Vaughan stole those orphans' Christmas presents?


----------



## trampie (Aug 1, 2011)

embree said:


> I'll expand further then:
> 
> No serious injuries occurred on that tour while the Leg Theory field was set. Short pitched bowling in itself is not illegal, never has been, and was used as a tactic long before the 1932/33 Ashes series. You may remember a few West Indians bowling short and fast at helmetless Englishmen in the 1970s.
> 
> ...


 
England had indeed been planning a continual short ball attack directed at the body for sometime.

The Aussie that suffered a fractured skull did top edge a hook, other Aussies did the same as England bowlers bowled bouncers at the body all the time, therefore the only shots available was the hook or pull shot.

The book that you mention was written by a person not even born at the time of the bodyline series, Larwood was one of the fastest bowlers ever in any era, the batsmen had limited protection and Larwood and some of his 'quick' collegues were going for the body with short pitched deliveries.

It was a sad time for cricket, with no fairplay or sportsmanship from one team.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

What did the aus players say about bodyline? The flak the wi used to get for bowling short used to annoy me a bit particularly as opposition batsmen would invariably say it was not unfair


----------



## trampie (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What did the aus players say about bodyline?


 
 There are two teams out there, one is playing cricket, the other is making no attempt to do so.


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What did the aus players say about bodyline? The flak the wi used to get for bowling short used to annoy me a bit particularly as opposition batsmen would invariably say it was not unfair


 
Divided opinions. A fair few thought it was fair enough, Woodfull didn't necessarily speak for the whole team and Bradman certainly didn't (the sanctimonious, pious little gobshite).

Yes trampie, the book was written by someone not born at the time. Using recollections and interviews from people who actually took part in the series. You know, first hand, primary sources. This is how history is studied. It certainly was not the black and white issue your laughably one eyed, ABE nonsense implies. Grow the fuck up you tit.


----------



## embree (Aug 1, 2011)

BTW, I highly recommend Harold Larwood by Duncan Hamilton - a truly great and touching biography of England's greatest bowler. A true working class hero who was shamefully treated in this country by the establishment thanks to the kind of nonsensical rubbish spouted by trampie here and who eventually found peace in Australia. The man had a phenomenal talent which was used in an entirely legitimate way in that series imho. As pointed out previously, the serious injuries were incurred when orthodox fields were in place and the batsmen made miscalculations in playing fast bowling. Such is cricket, it's a dangerous game.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 1, 2011)

well it did lead to a rule change. As did wi eventually, one i didn't agree with fwiw. I still dislike the formal restrictions on bouncers.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

from what i know about larwood yes he was treated disgracefully at a time when working class players were expected to do what they were told


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> One Australian had a fractured skull {no helmets and little padding in those days}, one Australian got hit in the heart, several Australians got hit in the body and head, there was a very real fear that somebody could have been killed, the Australian captain refused to retaliate with the same tactic, the English fast bowlers bowled bouncer after bouncer at the body of the Australians, a dirty low trick, if ever there was one.


The beginning of fast bowling as something that was actually potent - without bodyline there would have been no Lindwall, Griffiths, Marshall, Thompson, Miller, Lillie, Trueman, Statham, Tyson, Holding, Garner, Roberts, Ambrose etc, etc.

Bodyline changed the game and it changed it for the better.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

What about that time David Gower used trained snipers at Lord's to intimidate the opposition batsmen?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I still dislike the formal restrictions on bouncers.


 
Is it 2 at head height in ODI's now?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

In ODIs head-height is a wide now. 

In tests, I think the regs probably still vary by series, but 1 per over over shoulder height is the restriction I think. In other words, you can't bowl two in a row - once the batsman's had one in the over, he knows he won't get another, which is giving the batsman too much information about what's coming, imo. 

I'm pretty much always on the side of the bowler in these things, though.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 2, 2011)

Why do you hate the England & Wales Cricket team so much Trampie?

Surely you should be happy about the great victory the England & Wales cricket team just achieved over India?


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Its all about fairplay, fairplay being very important in my neck of the woods, its a cultural thing I suspect.


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## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Its all about fairplay, fairplay being very important in my neck of the woods, its a cultural thing.


 
What are you twatting on about?

As you might have worked out by now, trampie, there are lots of Welsh people on these boards. Me included. And you're talking absolute arse.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> In ODIs head-height is a wide now.



Really???? I thought one was allowed above the shoulder and they were considering making it two. 



> In tests, I think the regs probably still vary by series, but 1 per over over shoulder height is the restriction I think. In other words, you can't bowl two in a row - once the batsman's had one in the over, he knows he won't get another, which is giving the batsman too much information about what's coming, imo.
> 
> I'm pretty much always on the side of the bowler in these things, though.



Me too, but I wouldn't want to go back to seeing tail-enders getting shelled by the likes of Holding, Thompson and Lillee.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

Sehwag in for the 3rd test.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What are you twatting on about?
> 
> As you might have worked out by now, trampie, there are lots of Welsh people on these boards. Me included. And you're talking absolute arse.


You support win at all costs do you, aka Bell, aka Collingwood, aka Jardine, the end justifies the means does it ?


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Sehwag in for the 3rd test.


 
He's a bit hit and miss. Despite the apparent weakness of the batting... it's the bowling that needs attention.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> You support win at all costs do you, aka Bell, aka Collingwood, aka Jardine, the end justifies the means does it ?


 
No I don't. Collingwood was clearly wrong, and he himself has admitted as much. Strauss has a good record in this regard. England are no worse than anyone else when it comes to gamesmanship, and probably better than some. *cough* Pakistan *cough*


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> He's a bit hit and miss. Despite the apparent weakness of the batting... it's the bowling that needs attention.


 
Yep. But Sehwag back is a big bonus still. He's hit and miss, but it's one hell of a hit when it does hit. Best opener in the world at the moment. He's got to help.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Ha, ha, ha, said he was sorry after the event did he 'littlebabyjesus', just like the MCC over 'bodyline', if you think thats ok, thats upto you, some of us have higher standards.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Ha, ha, ha, said he was sorry after the event, just like the MCC over 'bodyline', if you think thats ok, thats upto you, some of us have higher standards.


 
You mean Collingwood? I read that differently. I don't think he's that good an actor, and he came across to me as genuinely regretting what he did.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You mean Collingwood? I read that differently. I don't think he's that good an actor, and he came across to me as genuinely regretting what he did.


 
Making the decision on the field is difficult too. On the one hand you may think about fair play, on the other you're captaining your country in a test match that you want to win. Either way there'll be some people for and against either decision so you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Don't forget, Dhoni upheld the Bell appeal on the field. If there hadn't been a tea break, Bell would've gone. Dhoni got more time to think about it and take advice. Most of the time that doesn't happen.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Yep. And tbh I wouldn't have held it too much against him. Bell _was_ culpable. It was a pretty freakish situation as the boundary fielder clearly thought it had gone for four. That won't happen too often.


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 2, 2011)

The whole thing is just a footnote, anyway. Was a great England performance with nearly everyone contributing whereas it highlighted every deficiency in the Indian team of the last 10 years.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

If we're going by the laws of the game, whenever a batsman defends the ball so that it stops in front of him, and then picks it up and lobs it back to the fielding side, he should be dismissed for Handling the Ball.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

That's why they normally ask if they can pick it up.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

I've noticed that KP never does. He just grabs it and throws it quickly before anyone can think about it.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Making the decision on the field is difficult too. On the one hand you may think about fair play, on the other you're captaining your country in a test match that you want to win. Either way there'll be some people for and against either decision so you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
> 
> Don't forget, Dhoni upheld the Bell appeal on the field. If there hadn't been a tea break, Bell would've gone. Dhoni got more time to think about it and take advice. Most of the time that doesn't happen.


Bell should have been out, the NZ batsman should not have been out, England wrongly ensured that both decisions went their way.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> I've noticed that KP never does. He just grabs it and throws it quickly before anyone can think about it.


 
Fucking South Africans.


----------



## TheDave (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Bell should have been out, the NZ batsman should not have been out, England wrongly ensured that both decisions went their way.


 
So even after several Indian players going on record to say that after seeing it themselves on the TV in the dressing room that the decision didn't feel right to them you're still gonna insist England pressured them into making that decision?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Bell should have been out, the NZ batsman should not have been out, England wrongly ensured that both decisions went their way.


 
I don't agree. As santino says, technically you're out if you pick the ball up after playing it - teams could appeal but don't. Dhoni made the right call to rescind the appeal. But Bell was dozy. Unfortunately the incident did seem to adversely affect the Indian team.

You're twisting the facts to fit your theory. But they just don't. Your theory is bollocks.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

Lawrence Booth reckons it was Tendulkar who suggested that they withdraw the appeal.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> Lawrence Booth reckons it was Tendulkar who suggested that they withdraw the appeal.


 
That would not surprise me at all. I'd wager Dravid will have supported him. Withdrawing the appeal reflects very well on the whole Indian team. As I said, the shame of the whole thing for me is that it definitely affected the Indians' focus. They fell apart after that.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Bell should have been out, the NZ batsman should not have been out, England wrongly ensured that both decisions went their way.


 
The Collingwood/Elliot decision had nothing to do with England ensuring anything. It was Collingwood alone who made that decision, a wrong one, in the spur of the moment, which he apologised for.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

Remember when Mike Gatting met Mother Theresa on that tour of India and punched her in the throat?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> The Collingwood/Elliot decision had nothing to do with England ensuring anything. It was Collingwood alone who made that decision, a wrong one, in the spur of the moment, which he apologised for.






			
				Paul Collingwood said:
			
		

> A split-second decision had to be made and in a tight game like that emotions were running high. The umpire asked me straight away if I wanted to uphold my appeal because the collision had been tough luck on Grant Elliott and I said yes.
> 
> I have never been in that situation before as a captain. It is a difficult decision to make. In hindsight I wish I had called him back. You come off the pitch and wonder if you should have done things differently. I hold my hands up and say I probably made the wrong decision, and that is something that I will have to live with. I apologise to the New Zealand lads.



Everyone except Trampie seems to accept that. 




			
				Daniel Vettori said:
			
		

> I like to think it's a decision that I will never have to make and that, if I do, I won't make it. Paul came to speak to us and was contrite so we will move on.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Now then, mr fairplay Trampie, surely as you set yourself such high standards, you must agree that if a person does the wrong thing but then apologises and admits their mistake, you should forgive them, particularly if the ones directly wronged have forgiven them. 

You're not living up to your own standards here.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

I'll never forgive Mike Brearley for scowling at a toddler that one time.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Really???? I thought one was allowed above the shoulder and they were considering making it two.


 
It appears that you're right, in fact, and that it is only a wide if it is over head height. However, it is over head height with the batsman standing in his normal position, ie crouched over his bat, not standing upright. I've seen a hell of a lot of very harsh wides by height in odis. 

Anyhoo, that's just odi hit-and-giggle. It doesn't really matter.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> I'll never forgive Mike Brearley for scowling at a toddler that one time.


 
Ah, but he did put every fielder including the wicketkeeper on the boundary once for the last ball of an odi. 

Was it Australia who bowled underarm in an odi to stop sixes? Or was that Brearley too?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 2, 2011)

TheDave said:


> So even after several Indian players going on record to say that after seeing it themselves on the TV in the dressing room that the decision didn't feel right to them you're still gonna insist England pressured them into making that decision?


 
It's a bit insulting to the Indians to suggest they're that easily pressured. And seeing as trampie's only here to try and wind up the English he probably wants a new angle.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ah, but he did put every fielder including the wicketkeeper on the boundary once for the last ball of an odi.
> 
> Was it Australia who bowled underarm in an odi to stop sixes? Or was that Brearley too?



Australia v New Zealand. Trevor Chappel to Brian McKechnie.

Greg Marsh refused to keep wicket to it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

They had to change the rules after that to stop it happening again. 

They had to change the rules after Brearley's little wheeze too.

_Rodney_ Marsh.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Now then, mr fairplay Trampie, surely as you set yourself such high standards, you must agree that if a person does the wrong thing but then apologises and admits their mistake, you should forgive them, particularly if the ones directly wronged have forgiven them.
> 
> You're not living up to your own standards here.



_Remember 3 years ago when Paul Collingwood was captain of England, Collingwoods fast bowler collided with a New Zealand batsman that was taking an easy run, the New Zealander was left injured in the middle of the pitch, not just knocked over but injuried, England run him out with the batsmen flat on the floor clearly in need of urgent medical attention after been flattened by the English bowler, the umpire went upto to the England captain and put both hands on the England captains shoulders and asked him if he was still claiming the batsmens wicket, at this stage the batsman if I remember correctly was still flat on the floor receiving medical attention, the English captain said he was claiming the wicket. _

Apologised the next day in Collingwoods case, thats all right then is it , given the circumstances ?, with the umpire putting both his arms on his shoulders with the batsman still down injured, no spur of the moment incident there. Atherton not sacked for ball tampering and trying to cover it up before the evidence of tv was too great.

Lots of people are guilty of a crime in a court of law will say sorry, whether they mean it or its just to get a lighter sentence only God knows.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> _Rodney_ Marsh.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Atherton did do that, yes. Ball tampering was very prevalent at the time, though. The Pakistanis and others were also at it. 

I'm not saying England are blameless, but you're trying to make the case that they are worse than other teams. I don' think the evidence bears that out.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

How about when Colin Cowdrey murdered those three prostitutes?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> _Remember 3 years ago when Paul Collingwood was captain of England, Collingwoods fast bowler collided with a New Zealand batsman that was taking an easy run, the New Zealander was left injured in the middle of the pitch, not just knocked over but injuried, England run him out with the batsmen flat on the floor clearly in need of urgent medical attention after been flattened by the English bowler, the umpire went upto to the England captain and put both hands on the England captains shoulders and asked him if he was still claiming the batsmens wicket, at this stage the batsman if I remember correctly was still flat on the floor receiving medical attention, the English captain said he was claiming the wicket. _
> 
> Apologised the next day in Collingwoods case, thats all right then is it , given the circumstances ?, with the umpire putting both his arms on his shoulders with the batsman still down injured, no spur of the moment incident there. Atherton not sacked for ball tampering and trying to cover it up before the evidence of tv was too great.
> 
> Lots of people are guilty of a crime in a court of law will say sorry, whether they mean it or its just to get a lighter sentence only God knows.



Oh shut up, you tit.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Oh shut up, you tit.



On reflection, this ^^


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

Sidebottom's collision with Elliot was an accident.

What do you think of this, Trampie:



Translation: They're referring to each others mothers and incestuous possibilities


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Bell should have been out, the NZ batsman should not have been out, England wrongly ensured that both decisions went their way.


 
Thats actually pretty insulting to the Indian team, a team that consists of several all time greats who have played more tests then you've got brain cells.  The idea that England could have bullied the Indians like some novices is just plain insulting.  Anyone who watched this Indian side in Australia a few years back will know they do not get intimidated.

It was Bell's silly mistake, but India decided to withdraw the appeal, it had no bearing on the game whatsoever. So how about a little bit of fair play on your behalf and give the Indian team the respect they have earned?


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> It was a sad time for cricket, with no fairplay or sportsmanship from one team.



Your point is pointless. 

Cricketers have always pushed the boundaries of the sport (which is why the laws are changed). You can go back to times even before WG Grace for examples. If the English were responsible early on, it was because the game started here so we had first go at cheating, but once the game was exported, other nations quickly picked up on the idea and took full advantage at every opportunity. To single out one nation is ludicrous.

Oh and to pick up Embree for citing Frith and Hamilton and saying they weren't around at the time of leg theory so can't comment (but you can?) is also pointless. Hamilton is acknowledged as a great writer as is Frith - Frith, has met, interviewed and been friends with the greats of the game going back to the start of the last century, including those who played in 32/33.. pfft.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

It shouldnt have been the Indian teams decision to make 'teaboy' in the Bell situation, it should be the officials, im sure the rules will change in time, they will have too, due to betting scandels and the need for transparency.
Where do you draw the line, let him stay in, he had a fly in his eye as the ball was delivered, let him stay in there was a movement in the crowd as the ball was delivered, let him stay in he was on 99 and the games going to end up as a draw anyway, where do you draw the line ?
You draw the line when your fast bowler flattens the batsman taking an easy single and run him out, saying a batsman thought the ball had gone for four and it hadnt is nobodies fault except the batsman.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ball tampering was very prevalent at the time, though. The Pakistanis and others were also at it.


 
The Pakistanis made an art form of it in the early 90s, tbf.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 2, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's a bit insulting to the Indians to suggest they're that easily pressured. And seeing as trampie's only here to try and *wind up the English* he probably wants a new angle.


 
And the Welsh too, it's their team as well


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Your video 'spymaster' reminds me of Gough and Stewart, the time when Sri Lanka and England were both in Australia, it may have been the game {definately the same series}, when the Aussies called Muralitharan for throwing yet again , Gough barged a batsman and then Stewart changing ends did the same, the calling of Muralitharan was premeditated and the English knew it was going to happen and when it did, the English captain was nowhere to be seen {to me he should have said the man has been checked out by independant experts, and weve been told you were going to do it, its not cricket old bean}.
Gough then a few years later also again Sri Lanka was taken off by his captain {they tried to say he had a stiff neck} and England even released a statement at the end of the days play, always a bad sign, about Gough's behaviour.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

Remember when Jack Russell had that meal at a Harvester and took much more salad than he could eat?


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

'Spymaster', mentioning Rodney Marsh did not like the underarm ball against NZ {perhaps he didnt have a bet on }, Gubby Allen would have no part in bodyline although he played, he strongly disagreed with the tactic.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

If you want to talk about misdemeanours, a certain Mr Harbhajan Singh has a long list behind him. So what? It's a silly game you're playing.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> If you want to talk about misdemeanours, a certain Mr Harbhajan Singh has a long list behind him. So what? It's a silly game you're playing.


 
He plays the same game on the football threads. But the Faroe Islands are still better than Wales


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Im not playing no game 'littlebabyjesus', just making some observations and if that results in some people realising some home truths so be it, I was asked what I though and said what it reminded me of, thats all.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

You're listing everything you can think of that has been done by England over the years. My point is that you could come up with a similar list for just about every team, with the possible exception of New Zealand.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Your video 'spymaster' reminds me of Gough and Stewart, the time when Sri Lanka and England were both in Australia, it may have been the game {definately the same series}, when the Aussies called Muralitharan for throwing yet again , Gough barged a batsman and then Stewart changing ends did the same, the calling of Muralitharan was premeditated and the English knew it was going to happen and when it did, the English captain was nowhere to be seen {to me he should have said the man has been checked out by independant experts, and weve been told you were going to do it, its not cricket old bean}.
> Gough then a few years later also again Sri Lanka was taken off by his captain {they tried to say he had a stiff neck} and England even released a statement at the end of the days play, always a bad sign, about Gough's behaviour.



We could play this game for ever. The fact is that for every English cricketing misdemeanor you can call, I could come up with a bunch from the rest of the world. 

Have English cricketers cheated/behaved unsportingly? yes, of course, but no more than most sides and a lot less than many. 

Your attempts to portray English cricket as somehow more corrupt than everywhere else is pathetic and says more about you than it does the English game. I've not come across you before but it seems from others reactions that you have form for being a bit of a dick.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Im not playing no game 'littlebabyjesus', just making some observations and if that results in some people realising some *home truths* so be it, I was asked what I though and said what it reminded me of, thats all.


 
One might say 'uncomfortable truths' even, eh?

You keep ignoring me Trampie, why are you so down on the England & Wales Cricket team when others are shown to be just as bad (or worse)? An axe to grind perhaps? Do you hate the English and Welsh people?


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They had to change the rules after that to stop it happening again.
> 
> They had to change the rules after Brearley's little wheeze too.
> 
> _Rodney_ Marsh.



Roddy Marsh, his name reminds me of 1981, Dennis Lillee, £7500, 500-1.
What a marvellous win that seemed to be, incredible, how did that happen, perhaps Botham had had three shredded wheats.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

The Octagon said:


> One might say 'uncomfortable truths' even, eh?
> 
> You keep ignoring me Trampie, why are you so down on the England & Wales Cricket team when others are shown to be just as bad (or worse)? An axe to grind perhaps? Do you hate the English and Welsh people?


Others have been shown to be just as bad, thats what you think is it ?, I have no axe to grind, if teams behave well I will give them praise no matter who they are.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Roddy Marsh, his name reminds me of 1981, Dennis Lillee, £7500, 500-1.
> What a marvellous win that seemed to be, incredible, how did that happen, perhaps Botham had had three shredded wheats.


 
You're clutching at straws now. They thought the odds were ludicrous. The odds were ludicrous - they were a publicity stunt from that particular bookie. So they shoved a few quid on. They shouldn't have done it and would not be allowed to now, of course, but please show me where their subsequent play shows signs of not trying. There is none. They didn't fix the match and it was a genuine win. 

You're crap at this.


----------



## TheDave (Aug 2, 2011)

So Bell cocks up and it's a bit of a farcical run out, Indians go off and think "Yeah not the way we wanna win games, let the daft twat back on" Bell comes back to bat. Where have England misbehaved in that?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Others have been shown to be just as bad, thats what you think is it ?, I have no axe to grind, if teams behave well I will give them praise no matter who they are.


 
You've demonstrated a pathological hatred of the english over a number of threads, including threads you've explicitly started to attack the English. In fact, a quick look at the threads you've started shows that all of them are about England or Welsh independence. Obsessed much?


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> We could play this game for ever. The fact is that for every English cricketing misdemeanor you can call, I could come up with a bunch from the rest of the world.
> 
> Have English cricketers cheated/behaved unsportingly? yes, of course, but no more than most sides and a lot less than many.
> 
> Your attempts to portray English cricket as somehow more corrupt than everywhere else is pathetic and says more about you than it does the English game. I've not come across you before but it seems from others reactions that you have form for being a bit of a dick.



I have not said English cricket is worse that anyone else, you think that others are worse than England, what test playing nations are worse than England for gamesmanship and behaviour then ?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> I have not said English cricket is worse that anyone else, you think that others are worse than England, what test playing nations are worse than England for gamesmanship and behaviour then ?


 
Taken over the last few decades, Pakistan certainly. Australia possibly. South Africa, borderline. How does match-fixing fit into this? Or deliberately bowling your overs mega slowly when you're losing, which was a Pakistani favourite.


----------



## marty21 (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh this Bell thing! I think he was a dozy twat, the ball wasn't dead, but India were unsportsmanlike to get him out like that - they managed to sort that out over a nice cup of tea - no harm done.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> You've demonstrated a pathological hatred of the english over a number of threads, including threads you've explicitly started to attack the English. In fact, a quick look at the threads you've started shows that all of them are about England or Welsh independence. Obsessed much?


I dont dislike the English mun, lots of English people are great, some posters are like big girls blouses, if they perceive any observations as criticism of their team etc, they get upset, they need to man up, they need to stop believing their own press.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

marty21 said:


> Oh this Bell thing! I think he was a dozy twat, the ball wasn't dead, but India were unsportsmanlike to get him out like that - they managed to sort that out over a nice cup of tea - no harm done.


 
That's pretty much what most people think, tbh. I'll give India a lot of positive credit for changing their minds, though, even if it was done mainly to placate an angry crowd.


----------



## marty21 (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> I dont dislike the English mun, lots of English people are great, some posters are like big girls blouses, if they perceive any observations as criticism of their team etc, they get upset, they need to man up, they need to stop believing their own press.



I'm from an Irish background, and I disagree with you


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> I dont dislike the English mun, lots of English people are great, some posters are like big girls blouses, if they perceive any observations as criticism of their team etc, they get upset, they need to man up, they need to stop believing their own press.


 
again, one look at your thread history tells people everything they need to know about you.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Taken over the last few decades, Pakistan certainly. Australia possibly. South Africa, borderline. How does match-fixing fit into this? Or deliberately bowling your overs mega slowly when you're losing, which was a Pakistani favourite.


Oh really, I wonder what people from those countries would think of you saying that your lot is better behaved than their lot ???, so you rank England as the 7th worse for behaviour out of 10 test playing nations, ok, there we are then.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Oh really, I wonder what people from those countries would think of you saying that your lot is better behaved than their lot ???


 
WTF? You asked the question! In the case of Pakistan and South Africa, they've both had captains who have been caught match-fixing. That dwarfs anything any English player has done, so I really don't give a shit what their respective supporters think.

You are genuinely odd.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> It shouldnt have been the Indian teams decision to make 'teaboy' in the Bell situation,


Of course it should be, the need to appeal and the right to withdraw that appeal is fundamental to the laws of the game, as you really should know.



> im sure the rules will change in time, they will have too, due to betting scandels and the need for transparency.



I'm sure you are wrong.



> Where do you draw the line, let him stay in, he had a fly in his eye as the ball was delivered, let him stay in there was a movement in the crowd as the ball was delivered, let him stay in he was on 99 and the games going to end up as a draw anyway, where do you draw the line ?



Its down to the individual where you draw the line, they are all adults who have grown up playing the game, and its what you feel comfortable with.  Your examples are bit stupid because you know the answers and they're not comparable.



> You draw the line when your fast bowler flattens the batsman taking an easy single and run him out,



I agree, so does most other people.



> saying a batsman thought the ball had gone for four and it hadnt is nobodies fault except the batsman.



I agree so does everyone else.  

The point I made was that you suggested England influenced India's decision which is insulting to the Indian team, and the fact you can't take that back shows you have no business taking the highground.  It really doesnt suit you.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> again, one look at your thread history tells people everything they need to know about you.


 
Ha ha, I just checked his started threads! 

Let's all ignore Trampie and post about the cricket instead. 

So, Sehwag, Gambhir and now probably Khan playing in the 3rd test. That's got to make a difference if they're properly fit, or have India panicked and brought them back too soon?


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

England might only win by 100 or 150 runs.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Crazy thing is that England ended up thrashing India at Trent Bridge, but they could so very easily have lost. They were just one bad session away from deepest shit in India's first innings.

Before the series started I thought Zaheer was India's only hope. I still think that. But if they rush him back, it won't work. And if he really was just overweight and unfit at the start of the series, that's totally crap of him and India as a whole really.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Ha ha, I just checked his started threads!



  So have I, no agenda here, guv, honest!




> So, Sehwag, Gambhir and now probably Khan playing in the 3rd test. That's got to make a difference if they're properly fit, or have India panicked and brought them back too soon?



I think they've got to do something.  Gambhir is a certain, I think if if Sehwag is even 70% he'll be in because Mukund looks out of his depth. Zaheer is more interesting because surely they won't be able to risk another mid match injury.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Ha ha, I just checked his started threads!
> 
> Let's all ignore Trampie and post about the cricket instead.
> 
> So, Sehwag, Gambhir and now probably Khan playing in the 3rd test. That's got to make a difference if they're properly fit, or have India panicked and brought them back too soon?



Gambhir was almost fit for the last test, Khan can't be fit fit with a game off (but still a better bet than Sharma) - it must be a risk to pick him? Sehwag must be a risk as he will have no form at all, but is the sort of batsman who could come in and score a shedload very quickly..


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

'Teaboy', I suggested did I ?, so let me see, you are suggesting that India was not influenced into changing their mind ?, when on the field the Indians accepted that Bell was out - correct ?, then the crowd start booing, the English players start complaining and during the tea interval, apparently the English captain and coach go into the Indian dressing room to - well try and get Bell reinstated.
After all that the Indians changed their minds and allowed Bell to bat again, yet you think that they were not influenced by the English ?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> 'Teaboy', I suggested did I ?, so let me see, you are suggesting that India was not influenced into changing their mind ?, when on the field the Indians accepted that Bell was out - correct ?, then the crowd start booing, the English players start complaining and during the tea interval, apparently the English captain and coach go into the Indian dressing room to - well try and get Bell reinstated.
> After all that the Indians changed their minds and allowed Bell to bat again, yet you think that they were not influenced by the English ?



So Rahul Dravid is a liar now? You just get worse and worse.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Zaheer is more interesting because surely they won't be able to risk another mid match injury.


 
I don't think they can afford not to risk it. Zaheer is India's most important player by some distance.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

Trampie:  look you obviously hate English Sport, fair enough whatever gets you through the day.  Leave the Indians out if it eh?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't think they can afford not to risk it. Zaheer is India's most important player by some distance.


 
Got to play 5 bowlers then surely.  Also what about this young spin bowler they've got, got to be worth a go ahead of Baji?


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> WTF? You asked the question! In the case of Pakistan and South Africa, they've both had captains who have been caught match-fixing. That dwarfs anything any English player has done, so I really don't give a shit what their respective supporters think.
> 
> You are genuinely odd.


 
Just establishing that you think that one group is better than another group, because if anybody was to say that somebody was better than the English {God preserve us}, well, that is not permissible is it ?, but saying that England is better than Pakistan and South Africa is permissible.


----------



## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

It's spelt Englisch.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Trampie:  look you obviously hate English Sport, fair enough whatever gets you through the day.  Leave the Indians out if it eh?


 
You havent answered, you dont think the Indians were influenced by the English is that correct ?

The Indians initially accepted that Bell was out - correct ?, then the crowd start booing, the English players start complaining and during the tea interval, apparently the English captain and coach go into the Indian dressing room to - well try and get Bell reinstated.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 2, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Got to play 5 bowlers then surely.  Also what about this young spin bowler they've got, got to be worth a go ahead of Baji?


 
They wouldn't lengthen the tail even further surely?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> You havent answered, you dont think the Indians were influenced by the English is that correct ?


 
I don't need to answer, Rahul Dravid has already explained what happened, of course you know this because you saw the interview because you knew he was lying.  Shameful.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I don't need to answer, Rahul Dravid has already explained what happened, of course you know this because you saw the interview because you knew he was lying.  Shameful.


You dont need to answer ??? 
As regards Dravid, I havent mentioned Dravid


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> .


Lo Siento, me having said that I think some English people are great, what do you think of Welsh people ?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> They wouldn't lengthen the tail even further surely?


 
I'm not sure what they can do really, they have Munaf, but he's really a one day bowler.  Zaheer looked out of shape in the first test and then broke down.  In the nets yesterday he was only bowling of a couple of paces.  If they pick him as part of a 4 man attack and he breaks down again the selectors, coaches and captain will all be slaughtered back in India.

If I was in India's situation I'd probably go for broke and pick Sehwag and Gambir to open and then play 5bowlers and drop I'd probably go for broke and drop Suresh.  You've got to back this batting line-up to come good at some point:

Sehwag
Gambir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
MSD

It was India's bowling in England's second innings that set up their collapse.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 2, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I'm not sure what they can do really, they have Munaf, but he's really a one day bowler.  Zaheer looked out of shape in the first test and then broke down.  In the nets yesterday he was only bowling of a couple of paces.  If they pick him as part of a 4 man attack and he breaks down again the selectors, coaches and captain will all be slaughtered back in India.
> 
> If I was in India's situation I'd probably go for broke and pick Sehwag and Gambir to open and then play 5bowlers and drop I'd probably go for broke and drop Suresh.  You've got to back this batting line-up to come good at some point:
> 
> ...


 
I see your point but I can't see they'd go for it. Dhoni would need to be batting much better before they'd chance it - they might come good but they could easily get out very cheaply if they didn't.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Let's all ignore Trampie and post about the cricket instead.
> QUOTE]
> 
> You have asked me loads of questions and I have politely answered them, perhaps you wanted different answers, to then say 'lets all ignore Trampie' is very rude, is this some kind of club where certain nationalities and groups are not welcomed unless they agree with the likes of you ?
> ...


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## Santino (Aug 2, 2011)

We don't like facing uncomfortable truths. It's that simple.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> You dont need to answer ???
> As regards Dravid, I havent mentioned Dravid


 
Oh I just assumed you'd have seen the Dravid interview where he explained things very eloquently from the Indian perspective.  Its just that you seem to know so much about the incident and what should have happened that I'd thought you'd at least have the decency to understand why India made the decision they did, at least before you accused them of being weak.

Ok I'll give you a clue, Dravid disagrees with you and because he was in the changing room at the time I'm inclined to think his views are of more value than some oddball with a bizarre fixation about English sport.

Anyway trampie, would you risk a 75% fit Zaheer and what about Mishra over Baji?


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## TheDave (Aug 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> We don't like facing uncomfortable truths. It's that simple.


 
I love that phrase, dead give away somebody is talking out their arse.


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## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

My guess is that they'll risk all three injured players but keep Harbhajan. After all, Swann's struggled so far too - it's just not been a spinner's series so far, but that can change.


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## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> My guess is that they'll risk all three injured players but keep Harbhajan. After all, Swann's struggled so far too - it's just not been a spinner's series so far, but that can change.


 
You're probably right, but surely Zaheer has to play against Northampton this weekend to prove his fitness?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> You have asked me loads of questions and I have politely answered them, perhaps you wanted different answers, to then say 'lets all ignore Trampie' is very rude ...



Yes, that was before my attention was drawn to your thread posting history and I realised that you're just on an anti-English wind-up. Now off you pop ..... 



Teaboy said:


> If I was in India's situation I'd probably go for broke and pick Sehwag and Gambir to open and then play 5bowlers and drop I'd probably go for broke and drop Suresh.  You've got to back this batting line-up to come good at some point:
> 
> Sehwag
> Gambir
> ...



I think I agree with that. They have to roll the dice now.

England have to win both the remaining tests to go #1 don't they? India can win 1 and stay top in the rankings.


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## littlebabyjesus (Aug 2, 2011)

Nope. England just need two draws now, or one win. They need to win the series by a margin of two tests to go top.

I wouldn't bet against a whitewash if the weather holds up, tbh.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Lo Siento, me having said that I think some English people are great, what do you think of Welsh people ?


I like the vast majority of Welsh people I've met. Even the ones who chat shite about the English


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## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Oh I just assumed you'd have seen the Dravid interview where he explained things very eloquently from the Indian perspective.  Its just that you seem to know so much about the incident and what should have happened that I'd thought you'd at least have the decency to understand why India made the decision they did, at least before you accused them of being weak.
> 
> Ok I'll give you a clue, Dravid disagrees with you and because he was in the changing room at the time I'm inclined to think his views are of more value than some oddball with a bizarre fixation about English sport.
> 
> Anyway trampie, would you risk a 75% fit Zaheer and what about Mishra over Baji?


 
Oddball ???, not very nice that.
You think because of the Dravid interview that the Indians just changed their minds of their own accord ?, they were prepared for Bell to be out in the first place and only changed their minds after the booing, the England players reaction and the England captain and coach speaking to the Indians at tea, yet it had no bearing on them changing their minds, did it. 

Yes I would pick Zaheer even if only 75% fit as India have nothing to lose, they have already lost two tests out of two, if a fully fit Zaheer had played a full part in both tests, I wonder what the score would be now, I would go with Baji over Mishra.
The big disappointment for me has been Tendulkar, Tendulkars performance so far has underlined why I have always rated Brian Lara as better than Tendulkar comparing the two modern great batsmen.


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## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> I like the vast majority of Welsh people I've met.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 2, 2011)

what cricket ground in the world wouldn't have booed?


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Pontneddfechan


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Oddball ???, not very nice that.
> You think because of the Dravid interview that the Indians just changed their minds of their own accord ?, they were prepared for Bell to be out in the first place and only changed their minds after the booing, the England players reaction and the England captain and coach speaking to the Indians at tea, yet it had no bearing on them changing their minds, did it.



Yes I believe Dravid when he says that during the Tea interval they had time to reflect and decided they were not comfortable with the situation.  We all do things in the heat of battle in sport which we may later decide we're not happy with.  I do not believe the crowd influenced India's decision and I do not think England influenced their decision.  This Indian team is a very experienced and tough bunch, I firmly believe they are their own men and make their own decisions.  I'm also happy to take Dravid at his word, you appear not to which for me shows a serious lack of respect for a man who certainly deserves it.



> Yes I would pick Zaheer even if only 75% fit as India have nothing to lose, they have already lost two tests out of two, if a fully fit Zaheer had played a full part in both tests, I wonder what the score would be now, I would go with Baji over Mishra.
> The big disappointment for me has been Tendulkar, Tendulkars performance so far has underlined why I have always rated Brian Lara as better than Tendulkar comparing the two modern great batsmen.



I wonder if this 100 centuries nonsense is getting to Tendulkar?


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## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

I never heard the Dravid interview, you are the one mentioning Dravid not me, Dravid is the guy that was found guilty of ball tampering at one time wasnt he ?


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## TheDave (Aug 2, 2011)

NM


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## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> I never heard the Dravid interview, you are the one mentioning Dravid not me, Dravid is the guy that was found guilty of ball tampering at one time wasnt he ?


 
Indian cheats.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> I never heard the Dravid interview, you are the one mentioning Dravid not me, Dravid is the guy that was found guilty of ball tampering at one time wasnt he ?


 
Ok so India buckled under the pressure of the nasty cheating English bullies and then sent out known cheat Dravid to lie to cover up their embarrasment.

Or perhaps after having ten minutes to think and talk about it India decided that actually it was a load of nonsense and they wernt comfortable with the nature of the dimissal.  I personally think most teams would have responded in the same way, given enough time to consider their actions.  

Which do you think is more likely?  It saddens me that you just can't accept what is plainly obvious because you are blinded by pettyness.


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

Do you think England would have let the batsman back in ?, it was only 3 years ago that an English fast bowler collided into a batsman taking an easy run, leaving him injured in the middle of the pitch and they ran him out, even with the umpire putting his arms on the English captain asking are you sure you want him out , England still wanted him out after plenty of time to reflect {unless they needed a week in Geneva to consider}.


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## Lo Siento. (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Do you think England would have left the batsman back in ?, it was only 3 years ago that an English fast bowler collided into a batsman taking an easy run, leaving him injured in the middle of the pitch and they ran him out, even with the umpire putting his arms on the English captain asking are you sure you want him out , England still wanted him out after plenty of time to reflect {unless they needed a week in Geneva to consider}.


 
Considering that the current England captain has previously done something similar? You need to ask?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Do you think England would have left the batsman back in ?, it was only 3 years ago that an English fast bowler collided into a batsman taking an easy run, leaving him injured in the middle of the pitch and they ran him out, even with the umpire putting his arms on the English captain asking are you sure you want him out , England still wanted him out.


 
Why do you insist on mentioning that incident instead of the far more recent event of the current captain withdrawing an appeal and recalling a batsman in exactly the same circumstances?  Is it because you have a tiny wee agenda that only one incident suits?  

So in answer to your question given Strauss's record and his background, yes I'm sure he would have.

Now tell me again why are the Indian's liars?


----------



## trampie (Aug 2, 2011)

I never said the Indians were liars, you seem to make a lot of things up, you are the one with an agenda, not me, I call it as I see it, I will give praise and criticism in equal measures to whatever country when I think its merited, you seem to be blinded with patriotism unable to find fault with your own team [even when it is clearly warranted] .
Sad very sad.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> I never said the Indians were liars, you seem to make a lot of things up, you are the one with an agenda, not me, I call it as I see it, I will give praise and criticism in equal measures to whatever country when I think its merited, you seem to be blinded with patriotism unable to find fault with your own team [even when it is clearly warranted] .
> Sad very sad.





I knew I'd get there in the end.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> Do you think England would have let the batsman back in ?, it was only 3 years ago that an English fast bowler collided into a batsman taking an easy run, leaving him injured in the middle of the pitch and they ran him out, even with the umpire putting his arms on the English captain asking are you sure you want him out , England still wanted him out after plenty of time to reflect {unless they needed a week in Geneva to consider}.


 
And round and round we go. 

Fair play though, quite a good old school troll technique here. Have you considered applying it to a better topic, something like employing a cleaner? That might do the business properly.


----------



## gabi (Aug 2, 2011)

Bit shit to attack a newbie like that imo, 'trolling' now means disagreeing with the majority? Might as well use Facebook if that's the kinda shit you're after.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2011)

gabi said:


> Bit shit to attack a newbie like that imo, 'trolling' now means disagreeing with the majority? Might as well use Facebook if that's the kinda shit you're after.


 
As far as i know it means trolling. The posting of views designed to wind the majority of posters up and so on. Tramp is one as it's premeditated. You - you're just genuinely shit.


----------



## gabi (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh do fuck off Butchers 

You're a fucking joke. I assume the closest you came to playing cricket was strolling past the village green on your way to sign on. Fuck off please.


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## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2011)

Bang - £5 more in the pot for "sign on". There's predictable and there's predictable. Thanks for playing gabi.


----------



## gabi (Aug 2, 2011)

A fiver? Unheard of riches I'm sure for a man of your stature.

Now. Fuck off.


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## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2011)

Tramp and gabo - no ddraig? Great series.


----------



## gabi (Aug 2, 2011)

Butchers, in all honesty your contributions to Urban do amuse me - but I'm not sure I've seen you offer much, if anything, on cricket. But please continue - I'm off to the pub....


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## butchersapron (Aug 2, 2011)

Fair enough, i'm not known for posting on cricket at all. You win this one gabo.


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## mattie (Aug 2, 2011)

Has anyone discussed who's likely to replace Trott, assuming that shoulder requires some time to heal?

If so, I'm afraid I seem to have missed it in amongst the sanctimony.


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## Lo Siento. (Aug 2, 2011)

gabi said:


> Bit shit to attack a newbie like that imo, 'trolling' now means disagreeing with the majority? Might as well use Facebook if that's the kinda shit you're after.


 
he's not a newbie. He posts threads exclusively devoted to his hatred of the English. Oh, and on this thread, he's done some classic trolling - restate the same point over and over, refuse to engage with any point you don't have an answer to. Therefore troll.


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## Spymaster (Aug 2, 2011)

mattie said:


> Has anyone discussed who's likely to replace Trott, assuming that shoulder requires some time to heal?


 
Bopara?


----------



## mattie (Aug 2, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Bopara?


 
At 3 or 6, I wonder.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 2, 2011)

trampie said:


> I never said the Indians were liars, you seem to make a lot of things up, you are the one with an agenda, not me, I call it as I see it, I will give praise and criticism in equal measures to whatever country when I think its merited, you seem to be blinded with patriotism unable to find fault with your own team [even when it is clearly warranted] .
> Sad very sad.


You lying toerag.
You have NEVER - not once - said anything good about the England side - you know,that side currently stuffing the world's no 1s? Your posts are 100% about attacking England on whatever spurious, flimsy grounds you can find


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 2, 2011)

I reckon MSD needs a rest, he's having a terrible series, bat gloves and captaincy.


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## gabi (Aug 2, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> he's not a newbie. He posts threads exclusively devoted to his hatred of the English. Oh, and on this thread, he's done some classic trolling - restate the same point over and over, refuse to engage with any point you don't have an answer to. Therefore troll.


 
He's got less than 200 posts... tis a newbie.

The English media themselves have been roundly critical of Bell's lack of grace in not congratulating India (and in some cases critical of Dhoni for doing what he did) 

Anyway - forums are for debate - not sure ganging up on someone just coz they don't share the majority view is on.... Bring it i say.. it's not trolling. it's debate. harden the fuck up


----------



## gabi (Aug 2, 2011)

maybe this is what trampie was trying to get at.

from britain's second most trusted news source.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/indians-allowed-into-pavilion-bar-201108014141/


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## redsquirrel (Aug 3, 2011)

mattie said:


> Has anyone discussed who's likely to replace Trott, assuming that shoulder requires some time to heal?
> 
> If so, I'm afraid I seem to have missed it in amongst the sanctimony.


Seeing as both Bresnan and Broad are batting well they could replace him with Tremlett. 

If they do go for another top order batsman Bopara and James Taylor are the ones being mentioned.


----------



## trampie (Aug 3, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> he's not a newbie. He posts threads exclusively devoted to his hatred of the English. Oh, and on this thread, he's done some classic trolling - restate the same point over and over, refuse to engage with any point you don't have an answer to. Therefore troll.


I have no hatred for anybody, you are the one that clearly has the hatred, I have brought up lots of different games and players, you just make personal attacks, you are the troll.


----------



## trampie (Aug 3, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> You lying toerag.
> You have NEVER - not once - said anything good about the England side - you know,that side currently stuffing the world's no 1s? Your posts are 100% about attacking England on whatever spurious, flimsy grounds you can find


England are in my view currently the #1 test team for results, but since the Bell incident England's behaviour has been discussed on this thread and they are nowhere near #1 for behaviour imo, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 3, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Seeing as both Bresnan and Broad are batting well they could replace him with Tremlett.
> 
> If they do go for another top order batsman Bopara and James Taylor are the ones being mentioned.


 
This is the question really.  If Trott is out do they just bring Tremlett back or stick with the rigid plan of 6 batsman.  Personally I'd like to see Tremlett in for Trott rather than another batsman, however I suspect England will opt for the later.

That being said I suspect Trott will be fit and Tremlett will mise out which is pretty harsh.


----------



## trampie (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks gabi, I am a newbie around here, still finding my way, forgetting my little spat with the boys on England cricketers behaviour, I think you are spot on when you state that 'trolling' now means disagreeing with the majority, not a real majority in this case, but a majority on this English cricket board perhaps but probably not across the world at large.

The bullies dont like people with something to say, it seems a standard tactic when they lose the arguement, that often they will resort to name calling and nastiness.


----------



## trampie (Aug 3, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> This is the question really.  If Trott is out do they just bring Tremlett back or stick with the rigid plan of 6 batsman.  Personally I'd like to see Tremlett in for Trott rather than another batsman, however I suspect England will opt for the later.
> 
> That being said I suspect Trott will be fit and Tremlett will mise out which is pretty harsh.


There is an old saying in cricket, if you cant win with 4 bowlers, you wont win with 5 bowlers, England only need to draw one of the next two tests to win the series, so picking a strong batting line up is less risky and more safe than going with only 5 batsman which would give the opposition slightly more chance of winning .


----------



## Santino (Aug 3, 2011)

When was ramjamclub banned?


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 3, 2011)

trampie said:


> There is an old saying in cricket, if you cant win with 4 bowlers, you wont win with 5 bowlers, England only need to draw one of the next two tests to win the series, so picking a strong batting line up is less risky and more safe than going with only 5 batsman which would give the opposition slightly more chance of winning .


 
India's only real chance is if England's bowling attack misfires... an extra specialist bowler would make that less likely.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 3, 2011)

trampie said:


> There is an old saying in cricket, if you cant win with 4 bowlers, you wont win with 5 bowlers, England only need to draw one of the next two tests to win the series, so picking a strong batting line up is less risky and more safe than going with only 5 batsman which would give the opposition slightly more chance of winning .


 
Yup, I think that'll be Strauss / Flowers thinking as well.  I just think that with 3 bowling all rounders in the team we could perhaps be a bit more bold.  This series has always been about winning by 2 clear tests so we still need to win one more.  All in all its a nice problem to have, unlike India who have got some serious issues they need to resolve.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 3, 2011)

Harbajhan confirmed as out


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 3, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Harbajhan confirmed as out


 
Oh right, that makes things interesting, do they pick Mishra or 4 seamers? I still think if they risk Zaheer they'll have to play 5 bowlers.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 3, 2011)

Whoever they pick they must be disappointed they haven't exploited what they've achieved against the England top order. It's only 2 tests in, but they must be tempted to risk Zaheer in the hope they actually do run through the top order and 'tail'.



> England batting averages
> Player	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
> KP Pietersen	2	4	1	295	202*	98.33	502	58.76	1	1	0	32	1
> MJ Prior	2	4	1	248	103*	82.66	277	89.53	1	2	0	22	2
> ...



Can't see it happening now - they seem to be in disarray..

Cue Sehwag


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 3, 2011)

Decision Review System to be replaced with M.S.Dhoni:



> "We think replacing Hawk-Eye with Dhoni will be an excellent decision .... "



http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/content/story/525528.html


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## Streathamite (Aug 3, 2011)

trampie said:


> England are in my view currently the #1 test team for results, but since the Bell incident England's behaviour has been discussed on this thread and they are nowhere near #1 for behaviour imo, so put that in your pipe and smoke it.


yeah right, _of course_ you haven't got an ABE obsession, and it doesn't show in practically every post of yours...


----------



## Utopia (Aug 3, 2011)

trampie said:


> Thanks gabi, I am a newbie around here, still finding my way, forgetting my little spat with the boys on England cricketers behaviour, I think you are spot on when you state that 'trolling' now means disagreeing with the majority, not a real majority in this case, but a majority on this English cricket board perhaps but probably not across the world at large.
> 
> The bullies dont like people with something to say, it seems a standard tactic when they lose the arguement, that often they will resort to name calling and nastiness.


 
All Gabi does if someone disagrees with them is put them on 'Ignore'.......the head in the sand tactic works well for him/her.


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 3, 2011)

Bell should go in at 3 if Trott's out.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 3, 2011)

So both Yuvraj and Baji are out for the rest of the series now.  Yuvraj will be more of a loss in the 20/20 and ODI's then the tests, assuming he won't be back in time.  He really didnt fancy it at Trent Bridge and would have almost certainly been dropped for Edgbaston.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 3, 2011)

Utopia said:


> All Gabi does if someone disagrees with them is put them on 'Ignore'.......the head in the sand tactic works well for him/her.


 
Gabi and liquidlunch were funny on The Ashes thread, soon as it became apparent the aussies were getting their faces ground into the dirt we barely heard from them again.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 3, 2011)

gabi said:


> He's got less than 200 posts... tis a newbie.
> 
> The English media themselves have been roundly critical of Bell's lack of grace in not congratulating India (and in some cases critical of Dhoni for doing what he did)
> 
> Anyway - forums are for debate - not sure ganging up on someone just coz they don't share the majority view is on.... Bring it i say.. it's not trolling. it's debate. harden the fuck up


again, he's not new to me, look at his started threads if you want to know what he's about, that's all I'm saying. When it happened I was busy arguing with all and sundry on here. Different opinion, no problem. Looking for any old excuse to take a pop at the English is tiresome.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 3, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Decision Review System to be replaced with M.S.Dhoni:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/content/story/525528.html



From the same site we have some interesting stats (Zaltzman style) regarding England's lower order:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/content/site/page2/snippet.html?snippet=24



> England's average partnership for their sixth to tenth wickets this year is 57 (compared to 27 last year) - comfortably a record by any team who have played more than one Test in a year, beating the previous best of 48 by South Africa in 1966. And they have scored these runs at a bowler-breaking rate of 4.6 per over.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 3, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> From the same site we have some interesting stats (Zaltzman style) regarding England's lower order:
> 
> http://www.espncricinfo.com/page2/content/site/page2/snippet.html?snippet=24



From there:



> 9. The number in England's order at which Alan Mullally batted in the Oval Test of 1999 ...... He scored 5 and 3, so, by his standards, he almost rose to the challenge.
> 
> England's No. 9 at Trent Bridge was Stuart Broad - 108 runs off 98 balls in the match, bumping his career average up to 29. How times have changed in English cricket.



How so!


----------



## embree (Aug 3, 2011)

trampie said:


> Ha, ha, ha, said he was sorry after the event did he 'littlebabyjesus', just like the MCC over 'bodyline', if you think thats ok, thats upto you, some of us have higher standards.


 
do you want to say sorry after the event for being factually incorrect about those Australian injuries being down to so called 'bodyline' bowling?


----------



## embree (Aug 3, 2011)

trampie said:


> Bell should have been out, the NZ batsman should not have been out, England wrongly ensured that both decisions went their way.


 
No, the umpire can only give it out on appeal. Given that the fielding side withdrew their appeal it clearly should not have been out. Because the fielding side did not wish to appeal for it on reflection.

So, not out. Those are the rules.


----------



## embree (Aug 3, 2011)

trampie said:


> It shouldnt have been the Indian teams decision to make 'teaboy' in the Bell situation, it should be the officials, im sure the rules will change in time, they will have too, due to betting scandels and the need for transparency.
> Where do you draw the line, let him stay in, he had a fly in his eye as the ball was delivered, let him stay in there was a movement in the crowd as the ball was delivered, let him stay in he was on 99 and the games going to end up as a draw anyway, where do you draw the line ?
> You draw the line when your fast bowler flattens the batsman taking an easy single and run him out, saying a batsman thought the ball had gone for four and it hadnt is nobodies fault except the batsman.


 
No you ignorant tit, it's ALWAYS the fielding team's decision to ask the umpire to make a decision, unless the batsman walks. That's how it works.

You know eff all about cricket don't you


----------



## embree (Aug 3, 2011)

trampie said:


> Yes I would pick Zaheer even if only 75% fit as India have nothing to lose, they have already lost two tests out of two, if a fully fit Zaheer had played a full part in both tests, I wonder what the score would be now,


 
It would be 2-0 to England


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 3, 2011)

So what do you want to happen next? 

Declare your interest!

I've been a travelling (South Africa, Australia, W.I., and India) England supporter for almost 30 years. We've been shit for most of that time, but I also support Reading FC, so I'm used to it.

I'm half Indian (my dad, also a big cricket head -played for UP-) and my wife is Punjabi Sikh, so I go neutral when England play India and win either way. 

That said, the current England test squad is definitely the best in the world at the moment, as they're just about to prove, and certainly the best we've ever had. I just wish they weren't proving it at the expense of one of the finest Indian batting line-ups of all time. Wish it was "someone else" _*cough: Australia*_.

I'd like to see a draw at Edgbaston, thus cementing our number one status, followed by an emphatic India win at the Oval, in which Sachin scores 200+. 

What say you?


----------



## Santino (Aug 3, 2011)

4-0


----------



## Mumbles274 (Aug 3, 2011)

Any more anecdotes Santino? Only thing I read in the last 5 or 6 pages.. pure class


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 3, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> I'd like to see a draw at Edgbaston, thus cementing our number one status, followed by an emphatic India win at the Oval, in which Sachin scores 200+.



That would keep India at number 1. England need to win by 2 to go top.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 3, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> So what do you want to happen next?
> 
> Declare your interest!
> 
> ...



Hang on.. if you;re neutral who's 'we' because if it's a draw and then an Indian win then India remain number 1 ranked team?

I'd like to see India spanked, so as the leading nation in cricket, they start to put the emphasis on Test cricket again.

As for who is number 1, I wouldn't say England were until they have played India away this winter, and SA at home next summer. Surely a team with Smith, Amla, Kallis, De Villiers, Steyn, Morkel.. is as good as India and will give England more of a test?


----------



## Santino (Aug 3, 2011)

Mumbles274 said:


> Any more anecdotes Santino? Only thing I read in the last 5 or 6 pages.. pure class


 
You mean like that time Alec Stewart punched a kitten?


----------



## Mumbles274 (Aug 3, 2011)

exactly... the stuff that doesn't make the papers, I don't know, these super injunctions


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 4, 2011)

Or that time Chris Lewis got caught smuggling cocain............ oh wait a minute


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2011)

I want to see England win 4-0, I know it's more likely 3-0 and one test a washout, but I'd also like to see Tendulkar get that hundred


----------



## Santino (Aug 4, 2011)

I'd applaud Tendulkar if he got a century but when he comes in to bat against England I want his stumps knocked over by Jimmy Anderson for a duck.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 4, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> So what do you want to happen next?
> 
> Declare your interest!


 
I hope England win 4-0, when they're down stamp on their throats etc.

England have been shit for most of my life so to see us not only winning matches but thumping teams is pure joy.

That being said I hope we do get a Tendulkar ton and I wouldent mind seeing a couple of hours of Sehwag at some point.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 4, 2011)

Bopara hardly setting the world alight in the England Lions game


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 4, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Bopara hardly setting the world alight in the England Lions game


 
Intresting that he batted at 3.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

I really don't like this idea that a one-match shoot out should decide places. Morgan edged ahead of Bopara on that basis this summer, it seems. But performance in one match is almost meaningless, imo. Every player in contention is capable of a storming hundred. Morgan's done little to suggest to me that it was right to select him ahead of Bopara this year, and imo Morgan's decision to take the money in the IPL ahead of trying to get into the England team should have counted against him. 

In short, I think Ravi Bopara can consider himself a bit hard done by.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 4, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I really don't like this idea that a one-match shoot out should decide places. Morgan edged ahead of Bopara on that basis this summer, it seems.


 
I'm not sure if thats correct.  England do have a policy of 'next cab off the rank', and Morgan was the spare batsman they took on tour so in theory he was the next in line.  That Lions match probably helped but I think he would have been in regardless.

I'm not sure about Bopara, there is something not quite right there and I think the selectors see that as well.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm not sure about Bopara either. I think he has more potential than Morgan, though. That Morgan swanned off to the IPL when there was a test place to be fought for sits badly with me. Is he really cut out for test cricket? I'm not sure he is.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 4, 2011)

I can understand why Morgan went over to the IPL, however I agree that the jury is still out on him as a test player.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I can understand why Morgan went over to the IPL


 
To earn shedloads of money? 

Why else? There was a test place up for grabs. Bopara turned the IPL down for that reason. Morgan showed that being in the England team was not as important to him as earning a ton of money in the IPL. Whatever you think of the two of them, Bopara has proved that playing for England means more to him than it does to Morgan.


----------



## g force (Aug 4, 2011)

I'd go to the IPL. Get paid well for doing what you love comapred to utter shit that counts as professional cricket over here. His got a short career may as well maximise your earnings while you can.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

Well Bopara didn't. He decided trying to get into the England team was more important. 

What's this bullshit about 'utter shit that counts as professional cricket over here'? wtf does that mean? If you can't think yourself lucky to be paid to play cricket wherever it is, you should be sent down a coal mine or something, because you really don't know you're born.


----------



## gabi (Aug 4, 2011)

g force said:


> I'd go to the IPL. Get paid well for doing what you love comapred to utter shit that counts as professional cricket over here. His got a short career may as well maximise your earnings while you can.


 
+ plus like half the england team he's not english so loyalty to his country wouldn't come into the equation


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

I don't care too much about perceived loyalty. I do care about whether or not a player thinks playing test cricket ought to be his top priority. I care about loyalty to test cricket. Bopara has shown it. Stuart Broad has shown it in the past too.

As for money, test cricketers are very well paid nowadays. There's no 'I've got a mortgage to pay' excuse any more.


----------



## gabi (Aug 4, 2011)

The IPL's perfect for a player like Morgan. Dont blame him at all for taking the paycheck. 

anyway, if Bopara was good enough he'd be in the side. end of. he's scoring runs at county level, which is not surprising. he was offered a chance at the next level and fluffed his lines.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> The IPL's perfect for a player like Morgan.


 
What does that mean? There was a test place up for grabs and he chose IPL over first class cricket in the lead up to the first test of the summer. What does that say about his priorities? He's at the start of his career, not the end.

If I'd been an England selector, I'd have told him straight - fine to go off to the IPL once you're established in the test team, but if you want to play test cricket, it is your performances in first class cricket that will get you in the team. I'd have made that clear to all the potential candidates for no 6 this year.

Anyway, Morgan's fluffed his lines too so far, has he not?


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I can understand why Morgan went over to the IPL, however I agree that the jury is still out on him as a test player.


I thought he'd done OK this summer, meself


----------



## gabi (Aug 4, 2011)

I wouldn't turn down the chance to play in the IPL and not just for financial reasons. I'm assuming it was a calculated gamble that he'd still make the test side, and he did.

He's a better batsman than Bopara so i expect this mini-slump will end soon.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

Mini-slump? I don't see it like that at all. He has yet to have a good patch to call this a mini-slump. I don't see his technique as up to test cricket - second innings at Trent Bridge kind of summed it up: very good at scoring off ordinary bowling.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> I wouldn't turn down the chance to play in the IPL and not just for financial reasons.


 
I wouldn't even consider playing in the IPL if I thought it would reduce my chances of playing test cricket. I must just think differently about test cricket from you, Morgan and others.


----------



## gabi (Aug 4, 2011)

Playing in the IPL didnt harm his chances of playing in the Test side tho did it?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Playing in the IPL didnt harm his chances of playing in the Test side tho did it?


 
Either he just got very lucky, or the selectors told him something before he went. If they did tell him something, then Ravi Bopara should be even more aggrieved as they clearly didn't tell him.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> *He's a better batsman than Bopara* so i expect this mini-slump will end soon.





Maybe in the shorter form of the game, but Ravi has batted at 3 in Tests where (for the reason KP avoids) he is more likely to be found out against swing and seam than batting at 6.

I'm not sure even if Morgan is better than Ravi that England don't need Ravi in the team for his bowling - then again I've every faith now in whoever Flower deems fit to be picked..

I did like this from TWC today 



> Made-up quote "I've heard Tim Bresnan saying bad stuff about Andy Flower and Andrew Strauss when they're not around. Really, really bad stuff. You know, get-dropped-from-the-team bad." Chris Tremlett


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 4, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> England have been shit for most of my life so to see us not only winning matches but thumping teams is pure joy.


 
Totally. I'd just rather it was "someone else" getting stuffed.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> England have been shit for most of my life so to see us not only winning matches but thumping teams is pure joy.


pure joy? It's positively _orgasmic_


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 4, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Totally. I'd just rather it was "someone else" getting stuffed.


 
Can't play the aussies every game.  

I still think India will come good, the batting is to good to not make a couple of really big scores and England are still prone to the odd crash 'n' burn (Perth for example).

The problem is the bowling, it may spin at Edgbaston and the Oval but they've just lost their premier spinner.  They need Zaheer badly, but if he doesnt make it back for Edgbaston then it will be to late, England traditionally do well at the Oval.


----------



## g force (Aug 4, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Either he just got very lucky, or the selectors told him something before he went. If they did tell him something, then Ravi Bopara should be even more aggrieved as they clearly didn't tell him.


 
The only grievance Ravi should have should be with himself for not being good enough and not bothering to try and get better. Had chances, didn't take them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

Perth was a bit of a special case. I love Perth tests, but Aus do have an advantage there in that they are familiar with the conditions. No such strangeness will be evident at Edgbaston or the Oval.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

g force said:


> The only grievance Ravi should have should be with himself for not being good enough and not bothering to try and get better. Had chances, didn't take them.


 
You think turning down the IPL to play first class cricket for Essex instead is 'not bothering'?

Also, you say 'had chances, didn't take them', yet his test record is almost identical to Morgan's. That doesn't really add up. Morgan's being given a far more extended chance than Bopara was given.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 4, 2011)

There is certainly a case for Bopara ahead of Morgan, but Morgan's 20/20 and ODI performances meant he deserved the oppotunity, he's done ok no better.

I think the problem with Bopara was the last ashes in England, it wasnt that he kept getting out cheaply he looked as if he lacked the mental strength to cope with the intensity of test cricket.  This may not be the case (and I hope I'm wrong because we need more strength in depth) but thats the impression he gave.


----------



## strung out (Aug 4, 2011)

.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2011)

g force said:


> I'd go to the IPL. Get paid well for doing what you love comapred to utter shit that counts as professional cricket over here. .


If professional cricket is so 'utter shit over here', how come it's producing the players who make the team that's well on their way to being world no 1?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 4, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> If professional cricket is so 'utter shit over here', how come it's producing the players who make the team that's well on their way to being world no 1?


 
I think he means the pay is "utter shit" rather than the cricket.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> I think he means the pay is "utter shit" rather than the cricket.


yeah, fair enough, but anywhere in cricket pays 'utter shit' compared to the IPL! Otherwise, pay for a well-established county player on the England fringes will be OK


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

A cricketer like Morgan will be on 50k plus for their county, but in reality a lot more than that as he's a centrally contracted England player, so England pay his wages. g force doesn't know what he's talking about.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 4, 2011)

From a quick Google central contracts are about 250-400k (Morgan would presumably be at the lower end). You can understand why someone would go for the IPL if they can earn twice that in a few weeks so I wouldn't blame him, but I'd agree with lbj that Bopara's commitment should be taken into account.


----------



## gabi (Aug 4, 2011)

Playing before a few hundred dozing old men on a tuesday afternoon in somerset or 50,000 screaming mentalist indians in mumbai and a tv audience of hundreds of millions and being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds for it... hmm....


----------



## embree (Aug 4, 2011)

g force said:


> I'd go to the IPL. Get paid well for doing what you love comapred to utter shit that counts as professional cricket over here. His got a short career may as well maximise your earnings while you can.


 
If you think 40 grand a year or so is 'utter shit' then... that's a good standard county pro's wage


----------



## trampie (Aug 4, 2011)

Cricket has huge corruption issues, the umpires and officials not having full control of who's in and who's out, makes corruption more possible, players policing the game is asking for trouble.


----------



## strung out (Aug 4, 2011)

yeh


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Playing before a few hundred dozing old men on a tuesday afternoon in somerset or 50,000 screaming mentalist indians in mumbai and a tv audience of hundreds of millions and being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds for it... hmm....


but as MGO pointed out; central contracts can get you 250-400k p.a., and that's before any additional earnings (match fees, sponsorships etc). STILL not up with the IPL, but not bad for playing 'proper' cricket rather than the cartoonesque version


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2011)

trampie said:


> Cricket has huge corruption issues, the umpires and officials not having full control of who's in and who's out, makes corruption more possible, players policing the game is asking for trouble.


do remind me which part of the world has most recently been associated with corruption in cricket....


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 4, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> do remind me which part of the world has most recently been associated with corruption in cricket....



Is it Swansea?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Playing before a few hundred dozing old men on a tuesday afternoon in somerset or 50,000 screaming mentalist indians in mumbai and a tv audience of hundreds of millions and being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds for it... hmm....


 
You have omitted an important factor. You play in front of the dozing folk of Taunton in order to get into the test team. 

Fine, the players in the ipl are treated like rock stars. But from what I've seen of it on itv, the format itself produces often dull cricket of a generally low standard. Take away the razzamataz and it's a shit tournament.

Who won the ipl this year? Does anyone care?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 4, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Who won the ipl this year? Does anyone care?


 
The whole player auction thing puts me off. It's like picking captains and having everyone else line up - you don't get a proper team identity.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Is it Swansea?


badoom-TISH!


----------



## gabi (Aug 4, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You have omitted an important factor. You play in front of the dozing folk of Taunton in order to get into the test team.
> 
> Fine, the players in the ipl are treated like rock stars. But from what I've seen of it on itv, the format itself produces often dull cricket of a generally low standard. Take away the razzamataz and it's a shit tournament.
> 
> Who won the ipl this year? Does anyone care?


 
Who won the County championship? or is it still going (i honestly have no idea as i'd rather read about scottish second division women's basketball in reality).

And no, you're wrong on your first point - and Morgan's place in the test side to play India is proof.


----------



## gabi (Aug 4, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The whole player auction thing puts me off. It's like picking captains and having everyone else line up - you don't get a proper team identity.


 
I was in india for the first night of the last IPL - people in mumbai genuinely gave a fuck about their team's ordeals. No weirder than north londoners supporting an arsenal team totally devoid of anyone with a british passport. 

i hope it doesnt kill test cricket but the reality is that england is the only country where a test match sells out. a test in india attracts about as many people as a tuesday afternoon county match in somerset. which is sad but true.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> I was in india for the first night of the last IPL - people in mumbai genuinely gave a fuck about their team's ordeals. No weirder than north londoners supporting an arsenal team totally devoid of anyone with a british passport.
> 
> i hope it doesnt kill test cricket but the reality is that england is the only country where a test match sells out. a test in india attracts about as many people as a tuesday afternoon county match in somerset. which is sad but true.



IPL attendances were down this year and grounds, even for the 'finals' weren't full. Anyone I spoke to when I've been there says it's as corrupt as fuck and therefore not worth watching. 

Despite poor attendances in India, there was a great interest in this series.. maybe, hopefully, this is the wake-up call they need. They all know the IPL is the selling of superlatives rather than the greatest show on earth. If it is, where are the world's greatest players (and Ravi)?


----------



## embree (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> i hope it doesnt kill test cricket but the reality is that england is the only country where a test match sells out. a test in india attracts about as many people as a tuesday afternoon county match in somerset. which is sad but true.


 
I've been over the hopelessly impossible ordeal of obtaining tickets for Test matches in India with you before. By all accounts it's a nightmare of Kafakesque proportions, made worse by the BCCI sending Test matches to cities with no real history of interest in cricket. It's really not as simple as you make out.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> Who won the County championship? or is it still going (i honestly have no idea as i'd rather read about scottish second division women's basketball in reality).


 
You're missing out. There was a fantastic climax to the county championship last year. Notts won btw. 

And more people watch it than you might think, despite the way it gets kicked around the schedules to make room for other supposedly more popular formats. Across the whole two divisions, attendances last year were almost exactly 1000 people per day on average, and that includes rain affected days, final days, everything, so on a sunny Saturday, that figure will be much higher. People do care about it. I still follow it loosely. When I was a kid I followed it avidly. 

You're just wrong to think that nobody cares about it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

gabi said:


> i hope it doesnt kill test cricket but the reality is that england is the only country where a test match sells out. a test in india attracts about as many people as a tuesday afternoon county match in somerset. which is sad but true.


 
Again wrong. India's recent series against Aus attracted some big crowds. 

West Indies played out their final day against India in Dominica to a virtually full house. 

Well scheduled, and with sensible ticket prices, there are still crowds. The idea that test cricket is dying is just wrong, despite the best efforts by various incompetent administrators to kill it.

And of course, Australia still gets huge crowds.


----------



## gabi (Aug 4, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Again wrong. India's recent series against Aus attracted some big crowds.
> 
> West Indies played out their final day against India in Dominica to a virtually full house.
> 
> ...



oz gets big crowds for the ashes, but most are poms, seriously.

Test crickets my fav game of them all but there's no point denying it's dying fast, and also to look at ways to change that. 

Been to tests in a few countries and this is the only country where ive encountered a sellout. Not sure how to combat this, pragmatically.  People just don't have the attention span. Basically; they're idiots


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

The Melbourne and Sydney tests always get huge crowds, whatever the opposition. Attendances at other grounds go up and down depending on the opposition, but you'll still get at least 50,000 over five days. 

You can't argue with me on attendances - I have a slightly autistic obsession with them, always have.

In South Africa you can get pretty small crowds, sadly. Before tests ended there, Pakistan got virtually nobody turning up. Sri Lanka also gets small test crowds, but I don't know if they ever had big crowds really. Ditto NZ - did they ever have big test crowds? 

In West Indies, part of the problem is the absurd ticket pricing. The cunts who run it would rather have 1000 people paying 20 dollars than 10000 paying a dollar each. It's absurd. The way WI cricket is run is absurd. Always has been.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 4, 2011)

Also, remember that test attendances in England are MUCH higher now than they were back in the 1980s. The first test I ever went to was Australia at Edgbaston in about 85. It was the first day and the ground was barely half full. That was normal - whatever the opposition, grounds were only ever full on the Saturday. 

They can recover elsewhere too.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I really don't like this idea that a one-match shoot out should decide places.


I agree with that but his figures for the season are decent rather than anything special. And he's playing in the second division.

Player Matches Inns N/O Runs High Score Average 100 50 Catches Stump
Bopara	9	17	1	683	178	42.68	3	2	1	0
Player Overs Maidens Runs Wkts Average Best 5w 10w
Bopara	215.0	31	719	19	37.84	2-50	0	0


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 5, 2011)

gabi said:


> Who won the County championship? or is it still going


Last years championship was fantastic and went down to the last day. 
And this years has been pretty good too, the quality of the cricket might not be as high as it was 20 odd years ago, but it's an incredibly tough competition to win.

On attendances while there are lots of reasons they're not great atm I do think the current standard of test cricket might have something to do with it. Even if we get rid of Bangladesh and Zimbabwe (neither should have test status IMO) there are a number of teams that would lose to decent county sides - New Zealand, the Windies, Pakistan, even Sri Lanka looked very weak this summer.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 5, 2011)

gabi said:


> Been to tests in a few countries and this is the only country where ive encountered a sellout. Not sure how to combat this, pragmatically.  People just don't have the attention span. Basically; they're idiots


 
I think there are a few basic errors being made across the world which is causing the decline of test cricket.  Firstly, as mentioned, ticketing is some countries is a joke, either the price is sky high or you have to buy a ticket to all 5 days, whats all that about?

Secondly test pitches throughout the world are stupidly docile, there is no competition between bat and ball.  Both teams score 600 and go home, utterly pointless!

Thirdly the Kookabura ball is shit and doesnt offer enough support for the bowlers, everyone should use the Duke so we can see a return of swing and seam.

Lastly there are some problems unique to certain countries, Pakistan's are well documented, the windies have built loads of souless stadiums in the middle of nowhere and Aussies don't like turning up when their team is village.

Test cricket is not dead but it is quite ill, however its not hard to turn a sport around with the right leadership.  A good example is the turnaround in fortunes of Darts, the interest is still their but the ICC need to start earning their money.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 5, 2011)

Day - Night test matches would help attendence. Start at 3pm end at 10.30pm then we can come after work.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 5, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Day - Night test matches would help attendence. Start at 3pm end at 10.30pm then we can come after work.


 
Perhaps.  I'm undecided about day/night tests, that being said it being a test it'd probably be fairer than the day/night ODI's which are far to often decided by the toss of the coin.

Can anyone explain the scheduling of tests in this country these days?  I understand starting a test on friday if they are back to back tests (although I still fail to see the need for them), but why is Edgbaston starting on a Wednesday?

Incidentally I see Bopara failed to convert another start in the Lions match, not for me I think.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 5, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Day - Night test matches would help attendence. Start at 3pm end at 10.30pm then we can come after work.


 
Not in England, I would say. The biggest problem in England wrt attendances is that the grounds still aren't big enough! But England really doesn't have the climate for day-night cricket. Places that don't suffer from dew/extended twilight - Sri Lanka for instance - yes.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 5, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I think there are a few basic errors being made across the world which is causing the decline of test cricket.  Firstly, as mentioned, ticketing is some countries is a joke, either the price is sky high or you have to buy a ticket to all 5 days, whats all that about?
> 
> Secondly test pitches throughout the world are stupidly docile, there is no competition between bat and ball.  Both teams score 600 and go home, utterly pointless!
> 
> ...


 
Here's where I start to become less optimistic. The problems you mention are all valid and mostly self-inflicted by incompetent fools. The likes of you or I or thousands of other thinking cricket fans could step in and sort it out. But the likes of you or I don't seem to get into positions of power in cricket-land. Morons like Giles Clarke do.


----------



## Santino (Aug 5, 2011)

Poor old Dave Burton, with five first class matches under his belt, averaging almost 40 with the ball, is now opening the bowling to Sehwag and Gambhir.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Poor old Dave Burton, with five first class matches under his belt, averaging almost 40 with the ball, is now opening the bowling to Sehwag and Gambhir.


 
To be fair if he was an aussie five first class matches and an average of 40 would be enough to get him on the next tour.  

I see Zaheer is playing which is good news for the Indians.  It also probably gives a bit of an insight into how their team will look for Edgbaston (assuming no injuries).  I reckon:

Gambhir
Sehwag
Dravid
Tendulkar
Laxman
Raina
MSD
Kumar
Zaheer
Mishra
Ishant

ETA: I still think they'd be better dropping Raina and bringing in a 4th seamer.  Raina looks to have been found out by the short ball and its hard to see how he is going to overcome that in a couple of weeks.  If he's not going to contribute with bat (and his bowling is woeful) they might as well get an extra bowler in and try to bowl out England cheaply.  As I said earlier in the thread you've got to back that batting line-up to come good.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Poor old Dave Burton, with five first class matches under his belt, averaging almost 40 with the ball, is now opening the bowling to Sehwag and Gambhir.



And not doing too badly - Sehwag out for 8.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 7, 2011)

Bairstow did very nicely in the Lions game a century and a half century. Keeps this form up and he might make it into the Winter tour team


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 7, 2011)

Zaheer Khan out for the rest of the tour....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/14435528.stm


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 7, 2011)

Bang goes the series with that. Zaheer was always India's only hope, imo.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 8, 2011)

Yup losing Zaheer is a massive blow.  Its hard to see how they can get 20 wickets twice without him.  Also Sehwag has got no cricket under his belt, its going to be tough for him just to come straight in and make a big score.


----------



## gabi (Aug 8, 2011)

Ishant was their best bowler in the carribean wasn't he? i think he can fill the void altho he seems somewhat mercurial.

with a country of a billion+ cricket obsessed people tho they really should produce more quality bowlers.


----------



## embree (Aug 8, 2011)

Congrats to Zimbabwe - just beaten Bangladesh by 130 runs in their first test in six years. Hamilton Masakadza making his second Test century a decade after his first


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 8, 2011)

gabi said:


> Ishant was their best bowler in the carribean wasn't he?


Because Zaheer wasn't there. Ishant's ok, but there's nothing to fear from his bowling.

What India really need is to dig out some genuine quicks. It's an oddity of the game that India have never had a real genuine quick bowler in the whole of their history. But even on slow wickets, real pace is effective - an inswinging yorker at 90 mph is a handful on any wicket.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 8, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Because Zaheer wasn't there. Ishant's ok, but there's nothing to fear from his bowling.
> 
> What India really need is to dig out some genuine quicks. It's an oddity of the game that India have never had a real genuine quick bowler in the whole of their history. But even on slow wickets, real pace is effective - an inswinging yorker at 90 mph is a handful on any wicket.


doesn't kapil dev count as a quickie?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 8, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> doesn't kapil dev count as a quickie?


Nope. Lively fast-medium at his quickest.

Maybe at his peak he was close. But he was never up there with the very quickest. The closest they've come, certainly.

I'm really thinking about the 90mph + merchants. England don't have one of those either at the moment.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 9, 2011)

So given Tremlett is still struggling it looks like England are just going to make one change from Trent Bridge with Bopara coming in for Trott, I assume Bell will move up to 3 and Bopara will bat at 6.

Its not the strongest looking England top six I've ever seen but there is a lot of strength in depth. Even though there is a bit of rain around I can't see beyond another England win.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 9, 2011)

Bopara should be freed up a bit coming in at 6. He's not going to get m(any) more chances at a Test place so lets hope he gives the selectors a reason to consider him.


----------



## gabi (Aug 9, 2011)

Bopara  

Such a depth in the bowling department but is this seriously the depth of batting available?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 9, 2011)

gabi said:


> Bopara
> 
> Such a depth in the bowling department but is this seriously the depth of batting available?



I have my doubts, but he has a decent 1st class average.  He's in last chance saloon though, no doubt about it.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2011)

It should of been Michael Carberry after this performance....



> Michael Carberry hit an unbeaten triple century and shared in a mammoth 523-run stand with Neil McKenzie in Hampshire's County Championship Division One clash with Yorkshire.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/aug/06/michael-carberry-523-run-hampshire


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 9, 2011)

Carberry's just coming back from a life-threatening illness. too soon for him.

I agree that this may be Bopara's last chance, but it's right to pick him. His problems have been mental - he has bags of talent - and coming into a successful setup like this might be just the thing for him.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> It should of been Michael Carberry after this performance....
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/aug/06/michael-carberry-523-run-hampshire


I could've got 300 on that wicket.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 9, 2011)

I think young James Taylor is a better long-term future option, but it may be too soon for him.


----------



## Santino (Aug 9, 2011)

Does James Taylor look like a sad dog?

 No.


----------



## embree (Aug 9, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> It should of been Michael Carberry after this performance....
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/aug/06/michael-carberry-523-run-hampshire


On a Hampshire featherbed


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 9, 2011)

Both Taylor and Carberry will be very much in the selectors thoughts, we need a back up opener if Strauss or Cook get injured.  The bigger the pool of talent the better England will be, Bopara's chance this time the others will get theirs.

I'd still much rather have England's selection problems then India, Sehwag has hardly faced a ball recently and they have no world class bowling left.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 10, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I have my doubts, but he has a decent 1st class average.


Decent sums it up, ~42 for both his career and this season. Test quality players should be scoring more runs than that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 10, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Decent sums it up, ~42 for both his career and this season. Test quality players should be scoring more runs than that.



Not necessarily. David Gower was never a big run-getter at county level. Before he was picked for the test team, neither was Marcus Trescothick, although he is now.

And of course, the other way round: big runs against county attacks are not guarantees of test class - as shown by the likes of Wayne Larkins or Graeme Hick.


----------



## Santino (Aug 10, 2011)

I hope Strauss knows what he's doing.


----------



## Santino (Aug 10, 2011)

WTF? Dhoni won't do interviews for the BBC or Channel 5?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 10, 2011)

Interesting stat from cricinfo - "Teams winning the toss have won four and lost eight of the 15 Tests at Edgbaston since 1995. However, interestingly, teams fielding first have won ten and lost just two matches in the same period. This includes Australia's two-run defeat in 2005."

It's a put-em-in wicket.


----------



## yardbird (Aug 10, 2011)

1st wicket down


----------



## Idaho (Aug 10, 2011)

Bye Sehwag. You'll get another chance on Saturday


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 10, 2011)

Great start


----------



## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

A good start

*Beware England! Sehwag is coming*


----------



## Santino (Aug 10, 2011)

Good old DRS.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 10, 2011)

Here we go again 

Gambhir's next.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I could've got 300 on that wicket.



You couldn't get 300 in Blockbusters.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

Indian chap in the office popped out to get lunch at 56/1


----------



## Idaho (Aug 10, 2011)

Oh yes!

India are on the ropes.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 10, 2011)




----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 10, 2011)

That's 4 wickets down by lunch!


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

That attack is a well oiled machine. surely the best england's ever had?


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 10, 2011)

fucking hell we're hammering them! 
I said to a mate recently that the proof of how good England's batting was that you didn't worry if one of them got out cheaply - you knew someone else would always get the runs.
Now we can say that about the bowlers - Bresnan and broad doing Jimmy's job for him.
They really are on fire.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

india's 7/1.

hmm. a crafty tenner?


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

fuck it. ive gone for the draw at 2.75


----------



## Santino (Aug 10, 2011)

Send your money to the NHS instead.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

gabi said:


> fuck it. ive gone for the draw at 2.75



On this pitch, with these conditions? You must be an eccentric millionaire or something. The only way this is going for a draw is if rain intervenes, and even then you'd need an someone to get a double hundred so slow and dull that everyone would think Gary Kirsten has come out of retirement.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> On this pitch, with these conditions? You must be an eccentric millionaire or something. The only way this is going for a draw is if rain intervenes, and even then you'd need an someone to get a double hundred so slow and dull that everyone would think Gary Kirsten has come out of retirement.



england's going to win. but its pointless betting on that and i felt like a flutter. hope for rain.

tendulkar should retire incidentally. he looked like me when i was 10 trying to play bresnan and broad.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

gabi said:


> tendulkar should retire incidentally.



Didnt he have a pretty decent tour of SA over the winter?  He's out of form but I'm not sure its terminal.



> he looked like me when i was 10 trying to play bresnan and broad.



You faced Bresnan and Broad when you were 10?


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

no but i was equally shit against joseph meehan from down the road


----------



## Santino (Aug 10, 2011)

And you looked like a 40 year old Indian man.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

oh dear


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

Raina has gone for another failure. He's a waste of space, they should have played the extra bowler.

Hmmm, MSD now he could do with a few runs.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Aug 10, 2011)

gabi said:


> fuck it. ive gone for the draw at 2.75


You'll be lucky.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

very!


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

100-6, this lot are worse then the aussies.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

they really are shit arent they


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

No fight at all at the moment.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> That's 4 wickets down by lunch!



Just popped out for lunch and now 6 down!
Will India make it to 150 and will they last the day?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

Everyone left the office and cricket on the radio now


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

150?  - Possibly, MSD is still there and Kumar and Sree might slap a few.

The day?  - No chance, I hope no urbs have tickets for Sunday.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

i think they'll make 200 odd. but not last the day.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

gabi said:


> i think they'll make 200 odd. but not last the day.


Well, it looks like your misplaced optimism has brought another wicket, Mishra's out.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

shocking batting


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 10, 2011)

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuucking hell.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

MSD is having a bit of a thrash, may play himself back into form I guess.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 10, 2011)

We need to kill this off.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Well, it looks like your misplaced optimism has brought another wicket, Mishra's out.



misplaced?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

gabi said:


> i think they'll make 200 odd. but not last the day.



Paddy Power stopped taking bets on India out under 222.5 runs or over 222.5 runs now.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 10, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> MSD is having a bit of a thrash, may play himself back into form I guess.


yeah looks like he has, but this is still a staggeringly lows total for a team with that much batting talent. 201-8 now. I can't see England losing this, even after one takes into account england's obligatory one-fuck-up-per-test-series


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

rain forecast tomorrow


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 10, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> On this pitch, with these conditions? You must be an eccentric millionaire or something. The only way this is going for a draw is if rain intervenes, and even then you'd need an someone to get a double hundred so slow and dull that everyone would think Gary Kirsten has come out of retirement.


on that note, anyone got the weather for brum?


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

heavy rain tomorrow then showers for the next 3 days


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 10, 2011)

From 111-7, 224 all out isn't that bad.

Is it?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

I thought it was pretty good.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

I pop out for an hour or so and what happens? Fair play to MSD, a good knock and he's made a game of it now.

As for weather, the bbc forcast looks fine. The odd light shower but nothing serious, you've lost you're money gabi.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I pop out for an hour or so and what happens? Fair play to MSD, a good knock and he's made a game of it now.
> 
> As for weather, the bbc forcast looks fine. The odd light shower but nothing serious, you've lost you're money gabi.



?
the bbc is forecasting heavy rain at 1pm tomorrow


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

I was looking at the overview which is somewhat different from the in detail one, still only looks like a short sharp shower?  The way pitches drain I doubt we'll lose more then 30 minutes max.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 10, 2011)

Badgers said:


> I thought it was pretty good.


good recovery from a disaastrous position, but IMO still poor for a team with that much batting talent. Considering their bowling's nowhere near as good, England have got the whip hand
e2a; especially as without dhoni finally remembering how to bat, it would have been a complete collapse


----------



## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

England openers still in?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2011)

Yup 36-0.

One of the things about the lower order scoring a few runs is that is shows the pitch is ok if you can get in.  Could be a real test of the Indian bowling this.


----------



## gabi (Aug 10, 2011)

i love watching kumar. proper old school.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 10, 2011)

84-0, and if they can avoid losing a late wicket then the day 100% belongs to England. good to see strauss amongst the runs


----------



## strung out (Aug 10, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> 84-0, and if they can avoid losing a late wicket then the day 100% belongs to England. good to see strauss amongst the runs


the day's over now


----------



## embree (Aug 10, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> From 111-7, 224 all out isn't that bad.
> 
> Is it?


England would have got 300+ from there


----------



## Santino (Aug 10, 2011)

I would have said that was the Platonic ideal of a day's Test cricket for an England fan, if I hadn't watched this winter's Ashes.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> 84-0, and if they can avoid losing a late wicket then the day 100% belongs to England. good to see strauss amongst the runs



Similar sort of run rate to the last test, no fall of wicket and 140 behind : )


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2011)

Bit of a slow start but the India fielding seems to be a bit sloppy.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 11, 2011)

Should chuck Ravi in next. Nothing to lose for the team and everything to gain to see how he goes. Otherwise (fingers crossed as I type) he's not going to get a bat.. they won't of course but just a thought.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 11, 2011)

The Sri Lankans put up more fight.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2011)

Strauss bowled out on a no ball earlier, guess India needed some luck.

Looking pretty good for a big innings score and a demoralised India


----------



## agricola (Aug 11, 2011)

Ravi Bopara's first ball dismissal will be hilarious.


----------



## gabi (Aug 11, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Strauss bowled out on a no ball earlier, guess India needed some luck.
> 
> Looking pretty good for a big innings score and a demoralised India



Dravid dropped a sitter off Bell. Evens it up.


----------



## gabi (Aug 11, 2011)

agricola said:


> Ravi Bopara's first ball dismissal will be hilarious.



I think even Bopara could get 40 odd against this attack.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 11, 2011)

Well played Cook


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 11, 2011)

And then Bell gone next ball!


----------



## gabi (Aug 11, 2011)

that ball barely deviated. lack of concentration from bell.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 11, 2011)

Bowling dobbers with a new ball isn't going to help.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 11, 2011)

good to see Cookie and the skip back on song. They both needed that. f- me India's attack is limp.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 11, 2011)

Game over already after just two days. Well done England, but this is a bit sad from India now.


----------



## gabi (Aug 11, 2011)

another nail in the coffin of test cricket.

these indian players clearly do not want to be wearing white clothes and standing on a field in england. and they've no financial need to any more either. sad.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2011)

456 for 3 already! I know India have been poor but England are playing very well. Wonder if they can notch up a 1000


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 11, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> good to see Cookie and the skip back on song. They both needed that. f- me India's attack is limp.



It's disgraceful.

They're standing around with their hands in their pockets.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 11, 2011)

Considering that was meant to be the best test side in the world out there, that was so one-sided it was embarrassing


----------



## gabi (Aug 11, 2011)

the whole series has been a let-down.

england are truly head and shoulders above anyone else. could get a bit tedious like with the aussies ten/fifteen years ago when there was no point watching as u already knew the result.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

Think they will declare today?


----------



## Idaho (Aug 12, 2011)

The first test was great. Really competitive. The second had swings and roundabouts, but finished with England domination. This one is so one-sided it's almost dull.

Pakistan looked tougher opposition when they were losing on purpose*

*Frank Skinner on TMS


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 12, 2011)

gabi said:


> the whole series has been a let-down.
> 
> england are truly head and shoulders above anyone else. could get a bit tedious like with the aussies ten/fifteen years ago when there was no point watching as u already knew the result.



Do you really think England are head and shoulders above S Africa? Amla, Smith, De Villiers, Kallis, Steyn, Morkel.. how do you think they'll get along in Sri Lanka and the Middle East (Pakistan) this winter?


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Think they will declare today?



They won't want to bat again, so I think the very earliest they'd declare is this evening, to give India a few overs with the new ball before stumps. But really there's no reason not to bat on until tomorrow unless the weather looks like closing in. And Strauss isn't averse to letting batsmen reach milestones either - who knows what target Cook has in mind?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Do you really think England are head and shoulders above S Africa? Amla, Smith, De Villiers, Kallis, Steyn, Morkel.. how do you think they'll get along in Sri Lanka and the Middle East (Pakistan) this winter?



I think England and SA are evenly matched - but England have a good spinner, SA don't, so I give England the edge.

tbh India became no.1 almost by default. If you look at their series results over the last couple of years, they've had a lot of success at home or against small teams and very little else. Same old India, basically: good at home, rubbish away. Harbajhan Singh's figures epitomise this.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 12, 2011)

I'd probably take SA's top six over England's but I think England have the better bowling unit. Steyn and Morkel are a fantastic new ball pairing but SA lack a quality third seamer, Tsobe is ok as is Parnell and Kallis is looking increasingly inneffective as he gets older. There is a lack of depth in SA's bowling which is being hidden by the quality of Steyn, take him out and they look very fragile. Also as has been mentioned they lack a world class spinner, although to be fair they are making the best of a bad situation with the way they use Harris, a little bit like England did with Giles, the aussies could learn a lesson from that.

I think a crucial difference between the two sides is England's lower middle and tail batting. At the moment Swann is batting at 10, its extraordinary when you think about it. A lot of England's recent success has been underpinned by lower order runs and England clearly have an edge over SA there. I'd also take Prior over Boucher every day of the week.

So all in all I think England have the edge, probably enough to win in English conditions, I still don't see England beating this SA team in their own back yard.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Ironically, for a very long time, lower middle and tail batting was South Africa's speciality. It's one of those things you can't really plan for - it's just a fluke that some of the best bowlers at the moment can also bat.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

From the BBC



> England's highest total in Test history:
> 
> 1st: 903-7 declared vs the Aussies at the Oval in 1938
> 2nd: 849 vs West Indies, Kingston 1930
> 3rd: 658-8 declared v Australia, Trent Bridge 1938



700 would do me


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 12, 2011)

As for the match in hand, I think perhaps (assuming England don't collapse) declare halfway through the evening session, maybe give India an hour or so to see out.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 12, 2011)

Badgers said:


> From the BBC
> 
> 700 would do me


I think post war matches are a slightly better comparison.  Pre-war there was a lot of timeless tests and the opposition were expected not to beat England, most bad form to challange the Empire, what what.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> As for the match in hand, I think perhaps (assuming England don't collapse) declare halfway through the evening session, maybe give India an hour or so to see out.


Yeah. They won't declare too early if for no other reason than that day four is a sellout crowd!


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

Rain stopped play 
Was waiting for Cook to hit the 200 mark


----------



## Idaho (Aug 12, 2011)

This must surely give weight to the arguement that we need an extra bowler. We aren't having batting problems anymore and our tail is long. I don't think we need Morgan. However another Onions, Tremlett, Monty (pick based on wicket) and we'd be unstoppable.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Gotta feel a bit for Ravi Bopara. Morgan's been dropped twice already. And by the times Bopara gets in he'll have little time to show anything. Be just his luck if someone holds onto a screamer to get him cheaply.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 12, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah. They won't declare too early if for no other reason than that day four is a sellout crowd!



Also why would you want a tricky run chase of a 100 or so on a 5th day pitch?  Plan to bat just once is the way.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 12, 2011)

Idaho said:


> This must surely give weight to the arguement that we need an extra bowler. We aren't having batting problems anymore and our tail is long. I don't think we need Morgan. However another Onions, Tremlett, Monty (pick based on wicket) and we'd be unstoppable.



Umm, we've just bowled out one of the most famous batting line-ups ever 5 times for less than 300.  I think we're doing just fine at the moment.

It would have been interesting if Tremlett had been fit.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Also why would you want a tricky run chase of a 100 or so on a 5th day pitch? Plan to bat just once is the way.


It is. If the weather forecast is reasonable, why not bat on and get 700? Triple century for Cook? Have a go at passing Gooch's 333?


----------



## kabbes (Aug 12, 2011)

God, I love cricket at the moment.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

Cook nearing 200 and Morgan over 50

Indian chap in my office is ashamed


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 12, 2011)

200 for Cook, the man's a machine.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 12, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Umm, we've just bowled out one of the most famous batting line-ups ever 5 times for less than 300. I think we're doing just fine at the moment.
> 
> It would have been interesting if Tremlett had been fit.



In bowling friendly, not-too-hot, home conditions. How will a 4 man attack do at the end of a long day on a flat, slow, sub-continent pitch with the temperature at 30C with one of the 4 carrying a niggle?


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 12, 2011)

fucking hell. ANOTHER mammoth cook innings, and another 500 up. I don't think I can psychologically adjust - not fully, not yet - to the experience of england beating the shit out of everyone they play.


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Do you really think England are head and shoulders above S Africa? Amla, Smith, De Villiers, Kallis, Steyn, Morkel.. how do you think they'll get along in Sri Lanka and the Middle East (Pakistan) this winter?



Yep. I can't see anyone beating this england side for a long time. it's the perfect storm for them at the moment. there's no weak link and there's excellent reserves in waiting.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 12, 2011)

The weak link IMO is the determination to use only 3 seamers.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 12, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> The weak link IMO is the determination to use only 3 seamers.


they can easily tweak that tho; all it takes is for Flowers to change his mind


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 12, 2011)

Boooooooooooring!  It's only a bit of rain


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

Creeping along to 600/3 now and hoping Morgan can reach his hundred


----------



## kabbes (Aug 12, 2011)

It's a thing of beauty, it really is.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> It's a thing of beauty, it really is.



I am enjoying it. Despite the lack of competition, really want to see some big scores now 

Cook heading up the all time innings list
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_runs_innings.html?class=1;id=1;type=team


----------



## kabbes (Aug 12, 2011)

Stupid bad light rubbish.  Who are they hurting by continuing with the two spinners?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

That is crap


----------



## Idaho (Aug 12, 2011)

Those Reina bouncers were just too lively to deal with in mid-afternoon gloom.


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

> It now emerges that Dhoni brought on Ishant Sharma, at which point the umpires decided to bring the players in. And the Indian fielders found it funny. And this, according to some people on Twitter, is unsporting from Dhoni. You have to be kidding me.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

Come on Morgan


----------



## kabbes (Aug 12, 2011)

> Twitter
> 
> *From scooke7: *"Ask all the 25k spectators to raise their hands above their heads - "Many hands make light work"


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

tbh, if I was the Indian captain and the light was dodgy, I would bring Sharma on and tell him to bowl some bouncers. Definitely. Any good captain ought to do that.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 12, 2011)

... and we continue our march towards 1000 not out.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

200 run partnership up


----------



## kabbes (Aug 12, 2011)

And Cook has his highest score in test cricket too.

Just need another 4 from Morgan for his century and everything will be lovely.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 12, 2011)

That's the end of Morgan.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 12, 2011)

Classic, really.  So much mental effort goes into getting the 100 that the post-100 relaxation sees them out.

The really impressive thing about Trott, Bell, Pietersen and Bell is that they seem to have gotten over this.  Centuries are so commonplace for them that they don't lose it just because they've got one.


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

Bit of a poisoned chalice for Bopara this. No one's going to be that impressed with a century against this attack, but he'll look like a right nana if he goes cheaply.


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

Bit of a poisoned chalice for Bopara this. No one's going to be that impressed with a century against this attack, but he'll look like a right nana if he goes cheaply.


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

Bit of a poisoned chalice for Bopara this. No one's going to be that impressed with a century against this attack, but he'll look like a right nana if he goes cheaply.


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

Hat-trick!


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

Personally I think this is a bit of a poisoned chalice for Bopara


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Classic, really.  So much mental effort goes into getting the 100 that the post-100 relaxation sees them out.
> 
> The really impressive thing about Trott, Bell, Pietersen and Bell is that they seem to have gotten over this.  Centuries are so commonplace for them that they don't lose it just because they've got one.



What about Bell?


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

Sad dog.


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

lulz. SURELY that wraps up his test career.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

gabi said:


> lulz. SURELY that wraps up his test career.


Not really. You can't read too much into that innings. It's how he performs when he comes in at 100-4 that counts, not 600-4.


----------



## Biddlybee (Aug 12, 2011)

"it's not complicated and it's not particularly exciting"


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

> "Well Played Morgan.. 1)Scored a hundred 2)Got out just before the declaration 3)Got Bopara to bat so that he can be out and he keeps his number 6 spot when Trott is back. Against the Spirit of the Game by Morgan!



from cricinfo

there's so many players scoring runs around the country at the mo. bopara must have some dirt on andy flower or something if he gets another shot.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 12, 2011)

Michael Vaughan is a right twit. He's ok when he sticks to the cricket, but he doesn't seem to be able to.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Aug 12, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Michael Vaughan is a right twit. He's ok when he sticks to the cricket, but he doesn't seem to be able to.



He also appears commentary wise to be morphing into Geoffrey Boycott....mind you I think that happens to all Yorkshiremen tbh (((my DaD and brother)))!


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not really. You can't read too much into that innings. It's how he performs when he comes in at 100-4 that counts, not 600-4.



100/4 becomes 107/5.

(edited as the suggested score was the wrong way around)


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

wonder if they're gonna let Cook bat and bat in pursuit of records. i hope so.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

There's tons of time still. To be ruthlessly efficient, they should throw the bat for the next hour then have 50 minutes at the Indians tonight.


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

Nah, let's see how far Cook can go. They should bat till lunch tomorrow.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Giving the Indians just five sessions to bat out is giving them a small chance of saving the match. Declare tonight, and I don't think there is any way the Indians can last for a draw.

I'd give Cook a chance to get his 300 (while telling him he needs to get a move on) then declare.

It seems almost indecent to tell Alastair Cook to have a slog, but I think it is time to tell Alastair Cook to have a slog.

This from cricinfo:

"Alastair Cook is all set to score 300 before India manage it in this series."


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2011)

Sehwag injured apparently (is definately off the field), players back on after a delay due to light, Bresnan slaps the first ball for four.


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

agricola said:


> Sehwag injured apparently (is definately off the field), players back on after a delay due to light, Bresnan slaps the first ball for four.


Sehwag went off yesterday towards the end of the evening. Just looked like he couldn't be bothered.


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2011)

England get to 700, Bresnan gets his 50, all down to one massive six.


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)




----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2011)

Cook goes for 294, England declare.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Ach. The nervous 290s. It's a weakness.


----------



## Santino (Aug 12, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ach. The nervous 290s. It's a weakness.



It's the old, old story.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 12, 2011)

Unbelievable. What a shambles.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

King pair!


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

Cruel on Cook, 6 more runs was all needed


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Cruel on Cook, 6 more runs was all needed


Probably did England a favour, though. Just about the perfect time to declare.


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Unbelievable. What a shambles.



Indeed.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

India digging in


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Well, that's what Viru does. Spectacular when it comes off, looks very foolish when it doesn't. He just loves hitting his first ball for four.


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

India's at 101/1 to win. with two days left. surely worth a quid! weirder things have happened.


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2011)

gabi said:


> India's at 101/1 to win. with two days left. surely worth a quid! weirder things have happened.



Will they even get to 101/1?


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

prolly not, no 

that pitch is disintegrating like fuck. swanns gonna have a field day..


----------



## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

Not been a wicket for ages


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 12, 2011)

I can hardly believe that we are absolutely trouncing the world's No1 test side, the world champions ffs. I gotta be dreaming


----------



## strung out (Aug 12, 2011)

the thing about cook is that he lacks the mental strength to be a truly world class test opener. schoolboy error getting out then.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 12, 2011)

Lacks the application to bat the whole two days.


----------



## strung out (Aug 12, 2011)

he scored fewer runs than his partner in every partnership he had in that innings. he needs to step up to the plate if he wants to stamp his authority on the test arena.


----------



## gabi (Aug 12, 2011)

bresnan has to be the most underrated cricketer in the world cricket...

averaging over 40 now with the bat, some proper cricket shots there. not a bad bowler either.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Aug 12, 2011)

If this game lasts till Suunday I'll be very surprised


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> the thing about cook is that he lacks the mental strength to be a truly world class test opener. schoolboy error getting out then.


you are being satirical here, aren't you?


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2011)

gabi said:


> bresnan has to be the most underrated cricketer in the world cricket...
> 
> averaging over 40 now with the bat, some proper cricket shots there. not a bad bowler either.



Isnt he played 9, won 9 now as well?


----------



## strung out (Aug 12, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> you are being satirical here, aren't you?


more whimisical i'd say


----------



## strung out (Aug 12, 2011)

the daily mail tomorrow. nice one shane...

http://twitpic.com/650kau


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 13, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> I can hardly believe that we are absolutely trouncing the world's No1 test side, the world champions ffs. I gotta be dreaming



This tour has been an embarrassment.


----------



## Santino (Aug 13, 2011)

Hopefully this will give Duncan Fletcher a mandate to sort shit out.


----------



## mattie (Aug 13, 2011)

Did I actually hear Boycott criticising a batsman for not scoring quickly enough?


----------



## agricola (Aug 13, 2011)

Gambhir goes, first ball of the day.

(edit: it was actually Anderson's first ball, seventh ball of the day)


----------



## Badgers (Aug 13, 2011)

Good start. All over by 5pm and England number one in the world?


----------



## agricola (Aug 13, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Good start. All over by 5pm and England number one in the world?



Maybe not even that long, Dravid gone now.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 13, 2011)

Blimey


----------



## agricola (Aug 13, 2011)

Sky now think Dravid didnt hit the ball, the noise for which he was given out came from the bat hitting his loose bootlace.  Can India sink any lower than this?


----------



## agricola (Aug 13, 2011)

No lace involved there.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 13, 2011)

All over before tea?

Piss poor effort by India.


----------



## gabi (Aug 13, 2011)

Boycott's in brilliant form


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 13, 2011)

Sharma's lbw was an awful decision. Quite clearly missing the off peg.

Does the Hawkeye replay get shown on the screens at the ground?


----------



## yardbird (Aug 13, 2011)

Thank you and goodnight!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Aug 13, 2011)




----------



## Santino (Aug 13, 2011)




----------



## El Sueno (Aug 13, 2011)

Congratulations England, 3-0 up and world no.1. Exciting times, as they're saying - the best is probably yet to come from this young squad.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 13, 2011)

Well here's hoping that India can put in a bit more effort at The Oval. Mainly because I've got tickets for the last day.

An excellent England performance but really disappointed by India.


----------



## strung out (Aug 15, 2011)

onions has been called up as cover for anderson for the 4th test! really really hope he gets a game.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 16, 2011)

Yeah I really want Onions to get a game. I also want to England to give 5 bowlers a try. We've only been bowled out once by this Indian side - why be stubborn?


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 16, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Yeah I really want Onions to get a game. I also want to England to give 5 bowlers a try. We've only been bowled out once by this Indian side - why be stubborn?



If Trott is fit (and replaces Bopara), which batsman would you drop? Morgan after making a (ropey) ton? And if 4 bowlers have knocked over India 6 times for less than 300, do you need another bowler (or a batsman who can bowl - Bopara?)?

On the plus side at last, they're picking from a position of strength.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 16, 2011)

Yeah drop Morgan. You can't tell me that he is going to be more significant to any England victory than an extra bowler?

As for Bopara...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 16, 2011)

My guess is that they'll stick to the formula, but it does seem almost ridiculous to have an 8,9,10 of Bresnan–Broad–Swann. I'm not a big fan of Morgan, I must admit. I'd happily drop him for Onions. You've still got a very strong lower order with Bresnan Broad and Swann down there.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 16, 2011)

I'm not convinced that Morgan has the technique to make a significant contribution when England are facing an attack on serious form.  In the end, it's always technique that is the ultimate limiting factor against the very best.

Beating this India side is one thing -- we could have selected from any number of possible teams and come out on top.  Beating South Africa away from home will be a different matter altogether.  I'm not sure who is the best option for a game like that, but I suspect Morgan isn't it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 16, 2011)

Indeed. I suspect messers Steyn and Morkel would rather like a dart at Morgan.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 16, 2011)

The other advantage with 5 bowlers is that we can rotate the 5th spot and keep our reserves sharp and give people like Finn the experience they are going to need.

If we are aiming for long term dominance, we need to make sure that we don't fall off a cliff when retirement comes round like Australia and shortly, India.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 16, 2011)

Idaho said:


> The other advantage with 5 bowlers is that we can rotate the 5th spot and keep our reserves sharp and give people like Finn the experience they are going to need.


Mebbe. England are becoming like Australia were basically. A few years ago, Brett Lee was kept out of the test team for over a year. He was 12th man for pretty much every match in that time, and they didn't even consider giving him a game. They seemed happy to freeze MacGill out for years at a time too. Worked, though - both of them performed when they finally got their chances. There's a case for always picking what you consider to be your strongest team, I think.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 16, 2011)

As for giving Finn the experience he needs, surely the County Championship is there for that. It's no coincidence that many of the players who've come into the test team and performed well straight away - Onions, and Tremlett and Sidebottom on their second chances at Tests; Strauss, Trott among the batsmen - were effectively already seasoned campaigners due to county cricket.

Broad has finally come good, but I don't agree with this idea of blooding promising youngsters in test cricket and having them learn their trade at test level: they should be coming in ready and raring to go.


----------



## embree (Aug 16, 2011)

I don't want them to fiddle with the team. It's winning by miles, carry on as usual please.


----------



## Santino (Aug 16, 2011)

embree said:


> I don't want them to fiddle with the team. It's winning by miles, carry on as usual please.


Oh yeah, what are you basing this opinion on? Two and half years without losing a series? Crushing victories against Australia and India? First place in the ICC rankings?

Don't you have any cricket theory to back this up?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 16, 2011)

Stick to the plan guys, the plan is working.

Maybe when we play Pakistan on the feather beds of the middle east we'll see a change, but in these conditions with these pitches things are going just fine.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 16, 2011)

I think there's a case for using the dead rubber for some minor tweaking, but nothing more.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 16, 2011)

The plan is working, but plans evolve. If you think you have enough batting, why not go for five bowlers? using trott/Pietersen for half a dozen overs out of every 80 isn't ideal, after all. Why not go for the absolute ideal?


----------



## strung out (Aug 16, 2011)

the absolute ideal is four bowlers who take 20 wickets relatively cheaply and 6 batsmen who score 300+ regularly. we have both at the moment, so why we'd want to break that balance is completely mystifying.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 16, 2011)

Yes, but in the last test there were 10 players who could bat, seven of them top-order, and three who would all look very good at number 8. Use that, I say.

We'll see. Eventually, I think the team may well evolve into a five-bowler team, just because it can!

Seriously, how much better as a batsman is Morgan than Bresnan?


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 16, 2011)

It will have to change against Pakistan this winter? They can't seriously expect 3 seamers and Swann to bowl in Abu Dhabi (or wherever it's played) either without the assistance of another bowler or if needs be with another spinner (no, not KP..). Prior and Bresnan are both averaging more than the number 6 at the moment..


----------



## embree (Aug 16, 2011)

I expect it will change when it needs to. It doesn't need to at the Oval though.

I admire everyone's dedication to the five bowler ideal of those great England sides of the 90s though


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 16, 2011)

yeah but as we've discussed at length before, they tried to force it. Here, you've got five bowlers forcing itself onto the team just because three of your best bowlers are such good batsmen. That's a good thing.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 17, 2011)

Fast bowler pulls a hamstring on day 1 = lost match.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 17, 2011)

Don't know if anybody else spotted this interview with Brian Close, still going strong at 80.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/14504753.stm


----------



## embree (Aug 17, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Fast bowler pulls a hamstring on day 1 = lost match.


over cautious nonsense, how often does this happen?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 17, 2011)

embree said:


> over cautious nonsense, how often does this happen?


I remember Hoggard pulling up at Old Trafford, I think, a few years ago.  I'm pretty sure we won or drew the game, I remember Panesar bowling a lot of overs.

I'm as happy as anyone to lay into the selectors when things are going wrong, but when they are going very right you have to give them the credit and trust them.  There is a case for a 5th bowler on certain pitches, a point which Strauss and Flower have always agreed with, but at the moment they know better and they have proved it.

For what its worth I think we'll need another spinner for the series against Pakistan, but as for the moment lets win the series 4-0, be ruthless, I don't see this game as a dead rubber.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 17, 2011)

I agree about being ruthless - although that might involve picking five bowlers! Certainly going for the extra bowler is an _attacking_ move.

Agree too about the possible need for two spinners in Abu Dhabi. Monty's having a fine year - over 50 wickets at 26 so far this season. He's quite possibly the second best spinner in the world at the moment - an England B-team would have a very strong bowling line-up.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 17, 2011)

embree said:


> over cautious nonsense, how often does this happen?


Zaheer Khan?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 17, 2011)

I guess Strauss and Flower are by their nature are very cautious, the site of Anderson padded up when we had about 450 on the board was something to behold.

I do see why people would prefer to have a 5th bowler given our strength in that department combined with doubt over Morgan and Bopara, but I simply cannot argue with the performances or results.  Whilst bowling wins you games, batting collapses lose you them.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 17, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Zaheer Khan?



Unfit, out of shape and had barely bowled a ball in anger in months.  India had more than enough batting to force a draw.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 17, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Whilst bowling wins you games, batting collapses lose you them.


And in terms of the last 5 years of results - when has the extra batsmen been significant? We've either collapsed completey, or we've not really needed the extra batter. Either way that number 6 slot has been irrelevant.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 17, 2011)

embree said:


> over cautious nonsense, how often does this happen?



Since December, off the top of my head, Broad in Australia, Ryan Harris v England, Anderson v Sri Lanka, Tremlett at Lords v India, Zaheer Khan, Harbajhan in this series, Rampaul v India.. fairly sure a Sri Lankan was crocked in the last series? Once a series seems to be the answer?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 17, 2011)

Idaho said:


> And in terms of the last 5 years of results - when has the extra batsmen been significant? We've either collapsed completey, or we've not really needed the extra batter. Either way that number 6 slot has been irrelevant.


You say that like its a fact, whats Ian Bell's average batting at number 6? I suspect its quite lively. What's Prior's average at 6? What happened in the matches when we only played 5 batsman?

You know what, I'd like to know the above as well, I'm going to hassle statsguru, back in a bit.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 17, 2011)

Ok so in the last 5 years Ian Bell batting at number 6 has had 24 innings scoring 1017 runs at an average of 50.85, thats against a career average of 47.44.

Its hard to imagine that someone who averaged over 50 throughout that period didnt have an impact on the games. More later stats fans.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 17, 2011)

It seems that Prior has batted so few times at 6 as to make any stats meaningless, the same goes for England playing 5 batsman.

Like I said, I can see why some people want 5 bowlers, its a view I kinda agree with, but all this complaining whilst England are winning so well does seem a bit absurd.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 17, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Ok so in the last 5 years Ian Bell batting at number 6 has had 24 innings scoring 1017 runs at an average of 50.85


Fucking hell!

I'm quite proud of the fact that I always stood up for Belly, even during the years everyone was slating him.  Like I said earlier, technique is the ultimate limiting factor at the top level and Bell has that in spades.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 17, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Ok so in the last 5 years Ian Bell batting at number 6 has had 24 innings scoring 1017 runs at an average of 50.85, thats against a career average of 47.44.
> 
> Its hard to imagine that someone who averaged over 50 throughout that period didnt have an impact on the games. More later stats fans.


Hmm... it's a fairly narrow way of looking at it.

It's not like when no.6 got runs, it was essential runs on top of those scored by 1-5. More likely 1-5 failed, and Bell at 6 was too far down the order.

I am not saying that the no.6 position has some magical significance, more that the 6th batsmen, if one were to rank the batsmen by batting skill, was superfluous. Before Morgan it was Collingwood who was largely pointless and surplus to requirements.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 17, 2011)

This is in danger of reverting back to the "we need another Ian Botham" mindset that served us so well from 1992 to 2004.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 17, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Hmm... it's a fairly narrow way of looking at it.
> 
> It's not like when no.6 got runs, it was essential runs on top of those scored by 1-5. More likely 1-5 failed, and Bell at 6 was too far down the order.
> I am not saying that the no.6 position has some magical significance, more that the 6th batsmen, if one were to rank the batsmen by batting skill, was superfluous.



I honestly don't know, I don't have the memory or requisite skills on stats guru to prove it one way or another, but I suspect you don't either. The point is number 6 is the last choice batsman so Ian Bell wouldent have played if we played 5 bowlers, therefore we would not have had his 1000+ runs, I can't believe that all those runs were scored when we already had 450 on the board, they must have had a significant impact on the success of the team.



> Before Morgan it was Collingwood who was largely pointless and surplus to requirements.



Collingwood finished with a career average of 40.51 which is superior to Atherton (37.69), Hussain (37.18), Stewart (39.54) and pretty much every other English batsman from the 90's and early 00's with the exception of Graham Thorpe who finished with an admirably (given he played in a shit team) defiant 44.66

Collingwood did well for England with the bat and thats before we talk about how many runs he saved and wickets he created in the field. Also he kept ok that time

We are living through a golden age of English cricket and all this grumbling is a tad bizarre to say the least.

Also, stat me till I hurt!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 17, 2011)

Collingwood was amazingly streaky. I think people may have a tendency to remember his spectacular slumps in form more than his periods of near-invincibility. He almost single-handedly saved a fair few matches for England in his time.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 17, 2011)

I will always love Clobbersaurus Collingwood and I don't care what anybody says about it.

Anyway, how many England batsmen have scored a double century in Australia? (Other than Cook, of course).

Collingwood was the rock on which other teams foundered on more than a few occasions.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 18, 2011)

Idaho said:


> And in terms of the last 5 years of results - when has the extra batsmen been significant? We've either collapsed completey, or we've not really needed the extra batter. Either way that number 6 slot has been irrelevant.


Hang on, England have managed to take 20 wickets in 7 out of the last 11 tests they've played, that's a pretty good record and even better considering that 2 of the games they failed to bowl the opposition out were the washed out Sri Lanka games where an extra bowler wasn't needed (especially at the Rose Bowl) and wouldn't really have helped.

I think you can make an argument that they stick to the four bowler format a little too rigidly, but you're going too far the other way.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 18, 2011)

Right - you've forced me into this corner. It's all your fault. I now demand SIX BOWLERS! 4 seamers and two spinners at ALL times. And I want to rotate them. And I want to open with spinners - to unnerve the opposition. And we reverse the batting order.


----------



## gabi (Aug 18, 2011)

interesting bit in the gruniad this morning about the impact of the IPL on the test team. sad really. the guy leading the investigation also owns an IPL franchise.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/aug/17/india-england-ipl-board


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 18, 2011)

I can't help but think that the IPL will have burned itself out in four or five years' time. I don't really think it's sustainable.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 18, 2011)

It's amazing how little interest I have in the IPL.  It can go fuck itself.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 18, 2011)

I watched a bit of it this year on itv4. I found it extremely dull. Everything that's bad about one-day cricket - ultra defensive fields and bowling, and batsmen slogging most of the time. Any format that has Shane Watson as its star performer can't have too much going for it.

Problem withe 2020 it seems to me is that everything is devalued - wickets are devalued, but so are boundaries. He hit a six - so what, he'll probably try it again and fail next time. It's like watching the tailenders swinging for fun in a test match, but this being the whole match.


----------



## gabi (Aug 18, 2011)

its fuckin great fun if u happen to be in india at the time but otherwise, meh. its way too bloated.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 18, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I watched a bit of it this year on itv4. I found it extremely dull. Everything that's bad about one-day cricket - ultra defensive fields and bowling, and batsmen slogging most of the time. Any format that has Shane Watson as its star performer can't have too much going for it.
> 
> Problem withe 2020 it seems to me is that everything is devalued - wickets are devalued, but so are boundaries. He hit a six - so what, he'll probably try it again and fail next time. It's like watching the tailenders swinging for fun in a test match, but this being the whole match.





He's a twat (again)


----------



## gabi (Aug 18, 2011)

oh dear, kumar's injured... this is going to be a long long innings from england again


----------



## Badgers (Aug 18, 2011)

We are playing then


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 18, 2011)

75-0. decent start and IT'S FUCKING RAINING AGAIN! England looked a class above India to me, so far


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 18, 2011)

btw, can anyone in the wildlands south of the river confirm that this rain is spitting at best? that's all I can see out of my window


----------



## kabbes (Aug 18, 2011)

Docklands report: spitting and damp but really dark.


----------



## gabi (Aug 18, 2011)

properly pissing down in central london

at what point do people get their money back? does one session count?


----------



## kabbes (Aug 18, 2011)

I think (from memory) that 1 hour's play = no refunds.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 18, 2011)

25 overs.


----------



## gabi (Aug 18, 2011)

i'd be properly pissed off about that. what does it cost? £60?


----------



## kabbes (Aug 18, 2011)

I suppose that the rationale is that if you went to see another sport, that would be about what you got anyway, give or take a bit.

I think it's well cheeky too though.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 18, 2011)

Used to be worse - tough shit if it rained. Tickets were a lot cheaper, mind.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 18, 2011)

stopped raining now in East London


----------



## gabi (Aug 18, 2011)

pummelling down in central


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 18, 2011)

OK, todays a near-washout, let's hope tomorrow's dry.


----------



## strung out (Aug 18, 2011)

gutted for my mates who were there. 7 balls less and they'd have got a refund on their £50 each


----------



## Badgers (Aug 18, 2011)

England should declare, will probably still be ok


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 18, 2011)

My guess is that India's batsmen will finally pull themselves together this match and that it will be a draw. India's bowling, however, has gone from bad to worse. Hard to believe that these are the best they can find.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 18, 2011)

fucking poxy british weather. just got drenched going up to the cashpoint. and this is bloody AUGUST!
The weather and India's batsman are still all that can save them, cos as lbj rightly says, they'll struggle to get England out cheaply.
And ALL their batsmen will need to find a form that's eluded them, the odd decent innings apart (Dhoni finally getting back his mojo at Edgbaston, dravid's century in the 2nd test), simply cos England's confidence is sky-high


----------



## Placid Casual27 (Aug 18, 2011)

I am going Friday and I am SO excited. Looks much better weather and we may get extra play due to today's shortfall. Have Melton Mowbray packed, and just made some onion bhajis.

Now, how to smuggle in a crate of ale. Having said that, mine and Strung Out's mutual female friend will be smuggling in some wine pretending it is a roast chicken. Never fails.

Loving it


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 18, 2011)

Enjoy! Smuggling in wine as roast chicken!


----------



## Santino (Aug 18, 2011)

Best chance of a draw for India given that England will probably bat twice - enforcing the follow on not being very popular these days.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 19, 2011)

Day off work and the cricket is on 

Is there a stream?


----------



## gabi (Aug 19, 2011)

there always is at myp2p.eu. go for the veetle one.


----------



## Santino (Aug 19, 2011)

Collapse!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 19, 2011)

Only another 8 wickets and they're into the tail.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 19, 2011)

That Cook lad will never be a top class batsman if he keeps failing like that


----------



## Badgers (Aug 19, 2011)

Panic panic


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 19, 2011)

India at least look more lively and _interested_ today.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> India at least look more lively and _interested_ today.


They're still gonna get battered.


----------



## Idaho (Aug 19, 2011)

Hmmm.. tight bowling.  97-2.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 19, 2011)

Shame about Strauss. Have to switch off now


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

Strauss had only scored 2 runs in 27 balls.  It _might_ not be a bad thing to get the next man in there.


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 19, 2011)

After all the bluster, hype and rapture of the latest thrashings and reaching world no 1, it's good to have mornings like this to remind you why everyone else doesn't feel the same as you about the Test game.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 19, 2011)

Pietersen putting India to the sword at the mo, great stuff 

Taken his own average above 50 with this innings too


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

I said they'd still get battered.


----------



## gabi (Aug 19, 2011)

what a shit series


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

Poor old Ravi. Will he get a proper go this match?

India losing control yet again after a good period.


----------



## gabi (Aug 19, 2011)

this attack couldn't knock over nz within 3 days


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

Another Belly century.  Hooray!

Pietersen next...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

No new ball? Leaving it to after  tea, I suppose, but that smacks of bad planning.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 19, 2011)

The Octagon said:


> Pietersen putting India to the sword at the mo, great stuff
> 
> Taken his own average above 50 with this innings too



Needs to make 114 b3fore he's out for the average to stick.. I don't understand the way running average on cricinfo works.. they should show the average assuming the batsman is out, not as 'not out'.

Bell needs to score 308 for the same thing to happen (or be not out 258..)


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 19, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Needs to make 114 b3fore he's out for the average to stick.. I don't understand the way running average on cricinfo works.. they should show the average assuming the batsman is out, not as 'not out'.
> 
> Bell needs to score 308 for the same thing to happen (or be not out 258..)



Ah fair enough, I was going by cricinfo.com's stats.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

This is pitiful now. The part-time spinners are on when the new ball is due.

I'm afraid Dhoni's captaincy has not impressed me. He makes Strauss look like a tactical genius.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

Almost there... stay on target...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> they should show the average assuming the batsman is out, not as 'not out'.


No they shouldn't! They're not out yet!


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 19, 2011)

The Octagon said:


> Ah fair enough, I was going by cricinfo.com's stats.



No no - blame cricinfo and its's stats - they're very misleading and pointlessly so sometimes.. (although what a site!)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

They are NOT misleading. What you suggest would be misleading - they give the player's current average up to date to the second.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 19, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> No they shouldn't! They're not out yet!



But you know what I mean (and the odds are they'll be out and the live average shown will drop back down..)


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

Come on Pietersen.  Knock over the missing two runs and make a start on the double century.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 19, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They are NOT misleading. What you suggest would be misleading - they give the player's current average up to date to the second.



They mislead Octagon..


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

Odds are also that they'll score more runs before they get out. Do you factor that in too? You can't have averages based on events that haven't happened yet.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They are NOT misleading. What you suggest would be misleading - they give the player's current average up to date to the second.





paulhackett said:


> But you know what I mean (and the odds are they'll be out and the live average shown will drop back down..)


They could always just quote both...


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 19, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Odds are also that they'll score more runs before they get out. Do you factor that in too? You can't have averages based on events that haven't happened yet.



Precisely - the innings isn't completed so its misleading

And yes to Kabbes, they could/should just add in another column..


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 19, 2011)

Either way, annoying time for tea with Pietersen stranded on 98.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

Anyway, it turned out that losing Strauss was a blessing in disguise after all.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Anyway, it turned out that losing Strauss was a blessing in disguise after all.


Not that you should have been wishing for it, mind.

Irresponsible, I tell you.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Precisely - the innings isn't completed so its misleading
> 
> And yes to Kabbes, they could/should just add in another column..


I know what you mean, but I think they do it exactly the right way.

cricinfo's a statto's delight, but it's not quite as good as it used to be. You used to be able to sort averages by year, home/away, etc.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

Quoting the average as it is right now is somewhat misleading, in that the batsman will *probably* end up getting out at some point.  Quoting the average as it would be if they were out, however, is *definitely* misleading, in that that is the one average you can almost guarantee will not be the one at the end of the day.

The fairest representation of "reality" lies somewhere between these two figures.  That's why quoting them both would minimise this misrepresentation problem.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

It's their average now, as it is, at this second. What's misleading about that? It's really no different from adding a wicket to the bowlers' averages, which I'm sure you agree would be absurd.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 19, 2011)

Oh Aggers, what are you doing?


----------



## kabbes (Aug 19, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's their average now, as it is, at this second. What's misleading about that? It's really no different from adding a wicket to the bowlers' averages, which I'm sure you agree would be absurd.


Depends why you want to know the average.  Generally, it's to have an idea of their overall place in the scheme of things -- i.e. "how good they are".  To that end, you want to know their average as at the end of the test, not whilst they are in play.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

Why? Why not know how they are doing right now!

Anyway, will India take the new ball now?

Edit: Oh, they took it last over before tea. And gave it to Sreesanth. Deary me.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 19, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Why? Why not know how they are doing right now!
> 
> Anyway, will India take the new ball now?



Because it's misleading.. 

No idea about the new blob - Sharma bowled well today by all accounts, they've got nowhere with this ball and no signs of it doing anything? Was Tendulkar on to give Singh, Sreesanth and Sharma a bit more fo a blow before coming again after tea?

It's another 'longer' session as well, so if they leave it later, the bowlers will be even more knackered?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

I watched a bit this morning and Sharma bowled really well. He looked like an England bowler or something.


----------



## yardbird (Aug 19, 2011)

KP gets his 100 *claps*


----------



## Mumbles274 (Aug 19, 2011)

Just now, KP to Sreesanth "Go on, Fuck off!!" ha ha hardly the most intelligent sledging


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 19, 2011)

Mumbles274 said:


> Just now, KP to Sreesanth "Go on, Fuck off!!" ha ha hardly the most intelligent sledging



I would love to be able to listen to the stump microphone.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 19, 2011)

This is a truly toothless India attack - my nieces could score off this bunch (some spurts from Sharma excepted)


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 19, 2011)

On the plus side we can all relax now, as KP will definitely average over 50 at the end of this innings, however it ends.. hurrah


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 19, 2011)

declaration by lunch on 3rd day (by which time KP and possibly bellers should have their daddy tons) and then a fairish chance of a second innings win. India's batting will have to be streets better than their bowling to avoid the whitewash


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 19, 2011)

Most pointless use of a nightwatchman ever?

Poor old Jimmy. He's the only one who can do it.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Aug 19, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I would love to be able to listen to the stump microphone.


I know, i would pay money for it!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 20, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Most pointless use of a nightwatchman ever?
> 
> Poor old Jimmy. He's the only one who can do it.



Is there a case for getting someone like Broad to do it? He might be more of a risk of playing a careless shot and getting out, but on the other hand he's more than capable of sticking a quick 40 or 50 on the next day if he doesn't get out rather than just hanging around for a while like most nightwatchen.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 20, 2011)

In this particular case, I think Morgan should have come in. There were six overs left, England were totally dominant. I do understand using a nightwatchman sometimes, but not then.

Anyway, well done Ian Bell. And Ravi gets his chance at 500 rather than 600 this innings.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 20, 2011)

Yep and has a little bit of a start now. Last chance for him?

Morgan should be worried as well tbf. OK he got a century in the last game but he's got quite a lot of low scores too.


----------



## Santino (Aug 20, 2011)

I think the point behind the nightwatchman is consistency. The players know one will come in at a certain time before the end so it eliminates speculation.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 20, 2011)

I love Bell's batting


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 20, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yep and has a little bit of a start now. Last chance for him?
> 
> Morgan should be worried as well tbf. OK he got a century in the last game but he's got quite a lot of low scores too.


I do have a history of getting these things wrong, but Morgan doesn't look to have the technique for test cricket.

It's not the last chance for Ravi B because I think there will be a vacancy at no 6 sooner rather than later when Morgan is dropped. I've not seen any of them, but by all accounts there are a whole load of young players challenging now too, of course, but not quite last chance saloon, particularly as there is little you can prove when you come in with 500 on the board. (And to be fair to Morgan, that's true for him too.)


----------



## Santino (Aug 20, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I love Bell's batting


Why don't you marry him then?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 20, 2011)

It's come to something when the only place in the team you can debate and moan about is the junior batting slot. 

I'm an England follower, damn it. I expect more.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 20, 2011)

Declare or hang on for the consecutive 700 innings?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 20, 2011)

Declare now it's started raining again. I'll be surprised if they don't.


----------



## gabi (Aug 20, 2011)

this series has possibly been the worst advert for test cricket possible. sadly it will be seen as such even more so in india. more force to the IPL then.

i know england can only beat who's put in front of them but this has been a fucking debacle. dhoni can't even be arsed catching the ball, let alone standing close enough to the stumps to catch it at anywhere approaching waist height. as for the rest of them. Srisanth yesterday, well, that was pure anger. which was good to see, but also pretty sad to see. he shouldn't be reduced to that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 20, 2011)

I don't quite agree. No good being World Champs at 50 overs and having a razamatazz millionaire's playground of 2020 if you're no good at test cricket. I would hope and expect that the majority of Indian fans will be gutted about this performance, and will want to see things changed so that it doesn't happen again. India can't pretend to be the powerhouse of cricket if they do not perform in tests.

Funny thing is that this all started off potentially very tight. Zaheer was the key. We saw what he can do on the first day - he would have loved these bowling conditions all series, and I don't doubt he'd have been as successful as Anderson. And with Zaheer performing, I'd wager Sharma would have done better too. The whole thing could have been different.

I'll believe test cricket is really in trouble when you can start to show me stars and national icons who've not made their names in tests. Pollard is the closest, but is he a hero in WI? No. He's little more than a sideshow blaster really.


----------



## gabi (Aug 20, 2011)

i love test cricket but i can see the signs. you'd be foolish not to. it's like a slowly disintegrating relationship. this one's fucked. without india on board and with the plethora of sports in australia, test cricket cannot survive there (ironically they're ok at lots of sports but not excellent at any one thing anymore). this is honestly (ime) the only country where it's still as popular as it has always been.

the rot set in in australia 10-15 years ago and we're seeing the results of that now in the quality of their sides. the windies, well forget about them. the kids want to be beckham, not lara, and the same is steadily happenin in india. sigh. curmudgeon i know. but its fucked..


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 20, 2011)

WI are weak at the moment. But they still have two bowlers who can bowl at 90mph +. Their batting is fragile, but Darren Bravo looks talented, and they have one or two others who're coming through.

WI can become strong again, I think. Not to regain their invincible status, but to compete. A bit like Liverpool, if you like - they can halt their decline even if they might not bring back the glory days. Same goes for Australia - and you'll still get the big crowds in for the Sidney/Melbourne tests; test cricket isn't dead there yet.

ETA:

I would guess that athletics will be the big rival to cricket in West Indies. Kids wanting to be usain bolt, not david beckham. Bolt was a fast bowler in his youth before choosing athletics. I'll bet he would have been some bowler!


----------



## Santino (Aug 20, 2011)

WI kids want to be basketball players in America. They can earn more in one or two years than they ever would as a state cricketer.


----------



## Santino (Aug 20, 2011)

Allow me to play Nasser Hussain for a minute: It's worth bearing in mind that it isn't just that this India side is crap - England are making them look crap. This is more one-sided than a series against Bangladesh. It's a lazy, poorly performing side coming up against an extremely good side.


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 20, 2011)

1 billion people and not a bowler amongst them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 20, 2011)

Only been one batsman really so far this series.


----------



## Santino (Aug 20, 2011)

There might be a lot of them, but Indian cricket fans don't come across as particularly informed about cricket (at least, not on the internet). I'm sure there are millions of intelligent Indian cricket fans, but they seem to be hidden by the mass of glory-hunting idiots. But that's exactly what you'd expect from a country's most popular sport.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 20, 2011)

Interesting theory. So basically, the more popular the sport, the less knowledgeable the average fan will be?

hmmm.


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 20, 2011)

awesome field setting for swanny - 6 round the bat!!


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 20, 2011)

India in big trouble now - 103-5 at end of day's play


----------



## kabbes (Aug 21, 2011)

For all the talk about India being lazy, not caring about test cricket and their attitude signalling the beginning of the end, I would remind you that before this series they were ranked #1 in the world and that this was only achieved by them caring enough to beat lots of other teams.

Funny how they have suddenly "stopped caring" the moment they've come up against a much better side.  Like a petulant child, some might say.


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 21, 2011)

With the follow on imminent, this one more reason we need 5 bowlers.


----------



## Santino (Aug 21, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> With the follow on imminent, this one more reason we need 5 bowlers.


What were the other reasons?


----------



## strung out (Aug 21, 2011)

yes, we definitely need a fifth bowler to get their numbers 10 and 11 out before they score another 130 runs.


----------



## strung out (Aug 21, 2011)

see?


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 21, 2011)

Santino said:


> What were the other reasons?



Injury.
Being out of nick.
etc


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 22, 2011)

Anyone idle and no tickets for the Oval, there's free entry to Lords today to see MCC v some League Conference side. Gates open this morning..


----------



## Santino (Aug 22, 2011)

Come on then, predictions for today's play please.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 22, 2011)

More battering.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2011)

India have ruined my summer.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 22, 2011)

I think Swann might complete a 5 wicket haul today.


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

Santino said:


> Come on then, predictions for today's play please.


What's tje weather like? Still predicted to be good?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> India have ruined my summer.



War?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 22, 2011)

Time for the off nearly. Have the radio on and nothing to do for an hour. Happy days


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2011)

Badgers said:


> War?


Hard to war when only one/two people are prepared to fight.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Hard to war when only one/two people are prepared to fight.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 22, 2011)

kabbes said:


> More battering.


yep. Dravid already back in the pavilion, bowlers have had a rest...


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 22, 2011)

I think Tendulkar might save them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 22, 2011)

Santino said:


> What were the other reasons?


Bopara on now. While he is not a terrible bowler, you'd rather have Onions or Finn steaming in.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 22, 2011)

Super-lol


----------



## Badgers (Aug 22, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> I think Tendulkar might save them.



He had a good go but still only 99 centuries


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

kabbes said:


> For all the talk about India being lazy, not caring about test cricket and their attitude signalling the beginning of the end, I would remind you that before this series they were ranked #1 in the world and that this was only achieved by them caring enough to beat lots of other teams.
> 
> Funny how they have suddenly "stopped caring" the moment they've come up against a much better side. Like a petulant child, some might say.


excellent point, that. a few months ago they were the daddies in both main forms of the game. That didn't happen by accident


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 22, 2011)

Poor ol' Sachin 

(Does anyone have a site that expains the tv screen graphic with the 4 criteria for the lbw dismissal?)


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

frankly, however, I could weep. I was SO looking forward to this series, simply because India have some awesome players. Instead it's been a ridiculously one-sided procession. Great performances by england, they've earnt that mace, but it's all been a bit of a disappointment for me.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 22, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> excellent point, that. a few months ago they were the daddies in both main forms of the game. That didn't happen by accident



Yeah all the 'test cricket is doomed' stuff is well OTT. It's entirely possible that in a couple of years India will have half a dozen quality new players coming in - the guy they've just called up for the one dayers is very young and apparently very fast for example.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Hard to war when only one/two people are prepared to fight.


2.5 if you count dhoni, who's had a mostly-rotten series but at least seemed (to me) to be trying.


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 22, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> excellent point, that. a few months ago they were the daddies in both main forms of the game. That didn't happen by accident



It did with a full strength bowling attack though.

One man can only make so much impact, but they have been so mind-numbingly un-competitive score wise, it does perhaps how pivotal the missing bowlers was, and how the batting just cannot carry them with such a deficit in the bowling.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 22, 2011)

Ted Striker said:


> Poor ol' Sachin
> 
> (Does anyone have a site that expains the tv screen graphic with the 4 criteria for the lbw dismissal?)



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/rules_and_equipment/6125026.stm - explains the lbw law fairly well. It doesn't mention the graphics but you can probably work it out fairly easily from there.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 22, 2011)

Ted Striker said:


> It did with a full strength bowling attack though.
> 
> One man can only make so much impact, but they have been so mind-numbingly un-competitive score wise, it does perhaps how pivotal the missing bowlers was, and how the batting just cannot carry them with such a deficit in the bowling.


tbf their batting and bowling have failed fairly equally in this series. Only Dravid of all the batsmen has had a good series. Only Kumar of all the bowlers has had a good series.


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 22, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/rules_and_equipment/6125026.stm - explains the lbw law fairly well. It doesn't mention the graphics but you can probably work it out fairly easily from there.



Cheers.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

Santino said:


> Come on then, predictions for today's play please.


I think they may well hold on for the draw, if dhoni digs in
266-6


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> tbf their batting and bowling have failed fairly equally in this series. Only Dravid of all the batsmen has had a good series. Only Kumar of all the bowlers has had a good series.


I'd've made the point about how crap their batting's been if you hadn't, especially as we all know just how good Laxman, sehwag, gambhir and tendulkar can be.
Perhaps - coming here straight after a demanding series (West indies, wasn't it?) was just too much - they've simply been over-cricketed


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 22, 2011)

I think the factor of spending hours fielding to an impotent attack (watching the oppo build up a 'cricket score') has had a far greater effect on the batting.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 22, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> I'd've made the point about how crap their batting's been if you hadn't, especially as we all know just how good Laxman, sehwag, gambhir and tendulkar can be.
> Perhaps - coming here straight after a demanding series (West indies, wasn't it?) was just too much - they've simply been over-cricketed



Some of them sat out that series though and haven't done any better. Dravid who's been their best player by miles did play in it I think.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 22, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> I think they may well hold on for the draw, if dhoni digs in
> 266-6



That's almost psychic.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Some of them sat out that series though and haven't done any better. Dravid who's been their best player by miles did play in it I think.


Really? That makes it even stranger how utterly limp they've been, half the time to me they just didn't seem like they wanted to be here.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

Ted Striker said:


> I think the factor of spending hours fielding to an impotent attack (watching the oppo build up a 'cricket score') has had a far greater effect on the batting.


yeah, you may have a point there


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> That's almost psychic.


not quite psychic enough - 269-8 and MS Dhoni gone for fuck all.
Game over.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> 1 billion people and not a bowler amongst them.


tbf,there's 2 OK ones - but they've both been injured.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2011)

Crush their throats.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 22, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> tbf,there's 2 OK ones - but they've both been injured.


Who's the second? Kumar or Harbhajan? If you look at Harbhajan's record, it is awful outside India and even worse outside Asia. He is far from a complete bowler.


----------



## gabi (Aug 22, 2011)

Sharma and Zaheer i'd say. Kumar's fun to watch but not world class.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 22, 2011)

The Octagon said:


> I think Swann might complete a 5 wicket haul today.





The bell tolleth.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2011)

South african...um...things


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2011)

Worst prepared tourist since when? We better get used to it with all year round cricket from Sl and India.


----------



## JimW (Aug 22, 2011)

Saved having a ten run chase, then.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2011)

Great team. terrible series.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 22, 2011)

Job done


----------



## Lord Camomile (Aug 22, 2011)

Kaboom!

Well, then...


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 22, 2011)

Not seen such total destruction wrought by an English side for a long time (if ever, in my cricket-watching career).

Well played lads.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 22, 2011)

They battered them, then.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 22, 2011)

Made them grovel


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 22, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Who's the second? Kumar or Harbhajan? If you look at Harbhajan's record, it is awful outside India and even worse outside Asia. He is far from a complete bowler.


meant Harbhajan as i still rate him, but I take your point.
game over, and we fucking stuffed them
right now, I don't even care that only one side turned up (excluding Dravid, dhoni's batting in the third test, and them having us on the ropes in the first test) - I'm just drinking in and savouring the moment.
Well played England.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 22, 2011)

For several days, it looked like we would lose the second test.


----------



## Termite Man (Aug 22, 2011)

I really picked the wrong moment to take the dog to the vet there  When I went out it was 268 for 6 . Whats worse is I was waiting at the vets for 40 minutes as well !


----------



## redsquirrel (Aug 23, 2011)

That was pathetic from India, to make less than 600 in two innings on that pitch is nothing less than a disgrace. Great set performances from England if they can do it away from home then they really will be the best team in the world.


----------



## Santino (Aug 23, 2011)

I can't fully enjoy this until I've read the BBC marks-out-of-10 article about the England team.


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## Santino (Aug 23, 2011)

Huh, pretty mean scores for a 4-0 whitewash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/samsheringham/2011/08/how_england_rated_against_indi.html


----------



## Santino (Aug 23, 2011)

Let's have some stats:

England lost 47 wickets to India's 80

Broad's batting average was over 4 times his bowling average. Over four Tests!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 23, 2011)

Very mean scores. Anderson: 4 matches, 21 wickets at 25 each gets an 8. Do that every series and you'll end your career as an all time great!


----------



## fen_boy (Aug 23, 2011)

Santino said:


> Let's have some stats:
> 
> England lost 47 wickets to India's 80
> 
> Broad's batting average was over 4 times his bowling average. Over four Tests!



Admittedly only over 3 tests, but Bresnan's was 16 bowling, 77 batting.


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## littlebabyjesus (Aug 23, 2011)

India should be seriously embarrassed by these figures. This was one of the most one-sided series in history. Every bit as bad as any of the thrashings the West Indies meted out in the 80s.


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## kabbes (Aug 23, 2011)

My scores

Andrew Strauss (captain) - 7

Not a bad few knocks and his captaining was proved pretty much spot-on

Alastair Cook - 7
One truly amazing innings and a bunch of mediocre ones

Jonathan Trott - 6
Started well.  His second innings was a bit poor and after that he was basically injured.  Contributed.

Ian Bell - 10
Bollocks to "self-confessed naivity", he dragged England back from the brink with a 159 in the second test (where his contribution was outshone by Broad's, but was still crucial), scored an amazing 200 in the 4th test and got some useful 30/40s elsewhere.  When a batsman averages 84 and contributes to every match, I'm not sure what more you can expect, ignoble 0 aside.  And he had to cope with suddenly being put at the all-important #3 too, which he did admirably.

Kevin Pietersen - 10
Everything said about Bell goes for Pietersen, except the 30/40s are 60s and he got a 1 instead of a 0.  But he didn't bat at #3.

Eoin Morgan - 7
Did alright in this series, but a 70 saved him from a much harsher score.  I remain unconvinced by his technique.

Ravi Bopara - 6

Didn't have that much chance to really impact, but did some useful work with the ball and played a good support innings right at the end.

Matt Prior - 9
Awesome game-changing batting when it counted and almost flawless with the gloves

Tim Bresnan - 10
Batted like a specialist, took wickets for fun.  Brilliant.

Stuart Broad - 10
Might actually be growing up.  Almost won a test match by himself, bowled well elsewhere and batted brilliantly.

Graeme Swann - 8
Was there when he was needed, constrained the Indian batsmen when the pitch was tough and made an important stand with the bat

James Anderson - 9
Bowled beautifully and took wickets consistently.  Can't think of a test we he was the distinct match-winner but, saying that, we wouldn't have won without him.

Chris Tremlett - ?
Got to admit, I don't really have an opinion.  I can't honestly remember!


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 23, 2011)

fuck I'm just sitting here with a big grin on my face, reading Kabbes' comments. So this is what being the king of the heap feels like!


----------



## kabbes (Aug 23, 2011)

Individual scores don't even really tell the whole story.  For me, it's as much about *team* performance as anything else.

Take that bowling unit, for example.  I think they've taken the game to a whole new level, with the way they create a bowling strategy as a team.  They'll create pressure with ten overs of Anderson and Bresnan hitting line and length, line and length, line and length, giving nothing away.  Then Broad will come on and bowl something a bit different and catch them off guard, breaking a partnership.

They don't each just bowl however they see fit, each seeking the glory of a wicket.  They look to bowl teams out by turning the screw.  Broad's comments the evening he had taken 5 for 0 in 16 balls said it all.  He refused to celebrate, saying that it's only a good day if you win.  And he insisted on placing credit on the team as a whole, because he recognises that the whole is much stronger than the parts.  He gained a lot of my respect that day.

It's harder for the batsmen to play as a team, but they do seem to take that team mentality into their batting.  No longer do we see a collapse.  Instead, if Cook fails, we see Trott or Bell or Pietersen go in with extra steel.  That's why it's hard to judge them on the basis of a set of six scores alone.  It's about the match situation -- each of them (except Strauss, tbf) scored big when scoring big was really needed.  Even Morgan.

And we see them adapt their play according to the situation.  If they have to knuckle down, they do it.  If they have to score quickly, they can.  Bell is such a classic striker of the ball that he doesn't really need to change his game that much (he always plays beautiful strokes and as long as he stays in, those strokes will score).  But the others will adapt from defence to attack as the situation demands.

Individually, I give the team some 7s and some 10s.  But as a _team_, my meter has to go all the way up to 11.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 23, 2011)

> Even Morgan.


?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 23, 2011)

I still think we should drop broad and bell mind. It was right to argue that at that point - look how we provoked them into playing.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 23, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I still think we should drop broad and bell mind. It was right to argue that at that point - look how we provoked them into playing.


I shouldn't think they're even aware of U75! However, i'm guessing the management laid it on the line to them - shape up or ship out.
I presume you wouldn't argue that now, anyway....
kabbes - agreed entirely. Their team spirit and _esprit de corps_ is fantastic - wortha coupla wickets or 50-100 runs in itself


----------



## kabbes (Aug 23, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> ?


I don't rate Morgan, but I have to say that he also played a key innings at a key moment in this series.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 23, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I don't rate Morgan, but I have to say that he also played a key innings at a key moment in this series.


when?


----------



## kabbes (Aug 23, 2011)

His 70 came at a point when England were teetering.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me.


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## gabi (Aug 25, 2011)

Bopara fails. Again.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 25, 2011)

Is trott's innings saving this match for England, or is it losing it for them?


----------



## gabi (Aug 25, 2011)

Well, the two debutants did well eh!

couldnt really have asked for a softer intro to international cricket and they fucked it up


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 25, 2011)

Some things about the England set up do make me scratch my head.  Why wasnt Cook playing today? He's just been made Captain and its not as if he had a lot of work at the Oval, if Morgan can play why not Cook?


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 26, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Individual scores don't even really tell the whole story. For me, it's as much about *team* performance as anything else.
> 
> Take that bowling unit, for example. I think they've taken the game to a whole new level, with the way they create a bowling strategy as a team. They'll create pressure with ten overs of Anderson and Bresnan hitting line and length, line and length, line and length, giving nothing away. Then Broad will come on and bowl something a bit different and catch them off guard, breaking a partnership.
> 
> ...


this, to me, is the key point. The hallmark of a great team - batting and bowling - is that if a key player fails, you shrug it off. It doesn't matter if Cook, or KP, or Trott lucks out - you always know someone else will get the runs. Ditto the bowlers - so what if tremlett's injured, someone else will always deliver.
That was the hallmark of the great WI side of the 70s/80s, and the Aussies of the 90s/noughties - they always had enough great palyers to deliver, whatever happened.
And that is England (albeit against rather less testing opposition).
And god it's good.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 26, 2011)

gabi said:


> Well, the two debutants did well eh!
> 
> couldnt really have asked for a softer intro to international cricket and they fucked it up


so what, we won, and it's "blooded" them


----------



## gabi (Aug 26, 2011)

blooded? they scored something like 3 each and faced about an over each. against second tier opposition.


----------



## Santino (Aug 26, 2011)

KP "rested" for the ODI series.

ODI and T20 selection policy looks confused. For example, Bell isn't in the T20 squad.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 30, 2011)

Interesting-ish piece in the Grauniad/Spin today on the relative merits of todays Test players versus those of yesteryear



> *DECLINING STANDARDS*
> 
> When it comes to awards, gongs and tearfully tuxedoed backslapping of all kinds, the Spin agrees wholeheartedly with the words of the great Jesse Owens, who said "awards become corroded, friends gather no dust" albeit with the caveat that he might like to consider storing his awards in a cool dry place rather than, say, a fish tank. But like it or not, awards season is now upon us with the ICC's announcement of the shortlists for its annual Test, one day and Twenty20 categories. The winners will be announced at a tearfully tuxedoed backslapping ceremony in London next week. And naturally enough there has already been much pshawing comment on the identities of the assorted contenders, not to mention accusations of toadyish institutional bias among the ICC's freelance selection panel, which includes the likes of Nasser Hussain, Andy Bichel and the cricket correspondent of the Independent.
> The main objections have included some carping at the presence of Kumar Sangakkara as wicketkeeper and captain in the ICC Test team of the year, a peculiar choice given that Sangakkara is neither a wicketkeeper nor a captain; and all the more so given that Matt Prior has been easily the best wicketkeeper batsman in the world and if we're really going to do this deserves to be recognised.
> ...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 30, 2011)

Sobering comparisons with the bowlers of the past. The article is a bit harsh on Jimmy Anderson, though. Instead of comparing his figures over the last year with Gillespie, they could have been compared to Warne. He's been turning in match-winning performances while on the same pitches his teammates have been stacking up the daddy hundreds.


----------



## kabbes (Aug 30, 2011)

Oh, my poor eyes!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 30, 2011)

cmd +


----------



## Santino (Aug 30, 2011)

Those warm-ups against India have finally paid off and Strauss has scored a century at Lord's, against Leicestershire.


----------



## Santino (Aug 31, 2011)

Australia out for 273 against Sri Lanka. Last man Hussey out for 95 lol.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 31, 2011)

Looks like Hussey played a blinder, tbf.


----------



## paulhackett (Aug 31, 2011)




----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 31, 2011)

(Silly quick question, wtf is a 'Daddy Hundred' ? Why Daddy?)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 31, 2011)

Graham Gooch's word for a big hundred. The new England maxim upon reaching three figures is: 'Make it a daddy.'


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 31, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Graham Gooch's word for a big hundred. The new England maxim upon reaching three figures is: 'Make it a daddy.'



Sounds stupid.

(Cheers though)
And couldn't agree with that Spin article more!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Aug 31, 2011)

Might sound stupid, but it works! They've successfully changed their psychology so that they are no longer satisfied with their day's work when they reach 100. Lots of players get out between 100 and about 120 because they relax and lose focus. England players are no longer doing this at all (well, except Morgan).


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 31, 2011)

Anyone watching the T20?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

I am, worthless crap


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I am, worthless crap



you, me or the T20?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

You and it.

(sorry, too easy)


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 31, 2011)

fwiw I hate T20 but it's cricket so I still watch it


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You and it.
> 
> (sorry, too easy)



yeah, I set 'em up etc......


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

Two somerset players, both key batters, kids in, we collapse, title gone, because of this joke game.


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 31, 2011)

anyway. This match is shit already. 34 from 4 overs, and their batting line up is pretty strong


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 31, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Two somerset players, both key batters, kids in, we collapse, title gone, because of this joke game.



The IPL has much to answer for.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> anyway. This match is shit already. 34 from 4 overs, and their batting line up is pretty strong


You need about 60 from 6 to be doing well.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> The IPL has much to answer for.


Well they cost us Thomas for the start of the season as well, and they injured him


----------



## gabi (Aug 31, 2011)

rahul 'the wall' dravid just hit 3 sixes in a row. in his first and last T20I. classic.

(and then promptly got out)


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 31, 2011)

Here we go. 166 to win.....


----------



## gabi (Aug 31, 2011)

oh dear. have to feel for Hales.


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 31, 2011)

that was close

eta Oh, I mean KP's inside edge for 4 btw. Guess you had to be there..


----------



## gabi (Aug 31, 2011)

Paul Nixon on the beeb is a revelation as a summariser. far far better than Vaughan.


----------



## Santino (Aug 31, 2011)

It's not Test cricket, but Morgan makes Bopara look like a cunt at this.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

Get out bopara , get jos in.


----------



## gabi (Aug 31, 2011)

Santino said:


> It's not Test cricket, but Morgan makes Bopara look like a cunt at this.



Bopara's failed at every single format of the game so far this summer but somehow keeps getting selected. mental.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

Not a catch


----------



## gabi (Aug 31, 2011)

TMS saying definitely out


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

look at the gap between the fingers.


----------



## gabi (Aug 31, 2011)

cant see it, listening to the wireless. but the commentators on TMS were unanimous.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 31, 2011)

It wasn't out.


----------



## Santino (Sep 1, 2011)

26 wickets have fallen in two days play in the Sri Lanka v Aus Test.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 2, 2011)

I know, this must be one of the most bowler friendly wickets SL have ever produced. Pretty dire performance from SL, their batsmen should be able to cope with spin.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 2, 2011)

SL currently 105 for 5 in the 2nd innings needing 379 to win.
Looking like a nice easy win for Clarke in his first game as captain.


----------



## Santino (Sep 2, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> SL currently 105 for 5 in the 2nd innings needing 379 to win.
> Looking like a nice easy win for Clarke in his first game as captain.


In his first game as captain he lost by an innings and 83 runs to England lol.


----------



## gabi (Sep 2, 2011)

this new aussie spinner looks the business. good to see. wicket with his first ball in test cricket. and it was sangakkara - no mug.


----------



## Santino (Sep 2, 2011)

Let's build up our expectations of him!


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 2, 2011)

Bit early to say that yet, he's wicketless and gone for 4 over in the 2nd innings atm. Still a good debut.

If he is test quality then assuming Harris stays fit (and that's a BIG assumption) the Aussies have got a pretty decent bowling attack.




Santino said:


> In his first game as captain he lost by an innings and 83 runs to England lol.


 True, forgot about that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 2, 2011)

Harris won't stay fit. He's already on borrowed time with his knee. Good to see him persevering with test cricket, though, and not doing a Malinga.

Very early to say anything about Lyon. The first innings here was his first ever first class five-fer!


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Harris won't stay fit. He's already on borrowed time with his knee. Good to see him persevering with test cricket, though, and not doing a Malinga.


I tend to agree with you, though they've got some reserves - Bollinger, Siddle maybe Hilfenhaus if he starts to get his fitness back.

Batting is a bigger concern for them IMO, a lot of their problems there will depend on how Ponting goes though.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 2, 2011)

Exactly. They have the bowlers England took apart last year in reserve. Harris is a very good bowler. I don't think the three you mention are 'very good'. Siddle's a trier, as is Bollinger, but they're not high-class.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 2, 2011)

redsquirrel said:


> Batting is a bigger concern for them IMO, a lot of their problems there will depend on how Ponting goes though.



Possibly. IMO they should have retired Ponting and not Katich. I can see why they wanted to move on from at least one of Ponting, Katich and Hussey so that they didn't all retire at the same time. But since the start of 2008, Katich has the highest average of any Australian batsman. Getting rid of him was quite bizarre.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Exactly. They have the bowlers England took apart last year in reserve. Harris is a very good bowler. I don't think the three you mention are 'very good'. Siddle's a trier, as is Bollinger, but they're not high-class.


Bollinger is a lot better than he's commonly given credit for in England, he was poor during the Ashes but he's got more quality than he showed last winter.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Possibly. IMO they should have retired Ponting and not Katich. I can see why they wanted to move on from at least one of Ponting, Katich and Hussey so that they didn't all retire at the same time. But since the start of 2008, Katich has the highest average of any Australian batsman. Getting rid of him was quite bizarre.


Totally agree with you on Katich. Hughes isn't a test player, he might make a quick hundred in the odd game but most bowlers will fancy their chances against him.

I think they'd be more willing to move on from Ponting if there were more youngster making lots of runs in Shield cricket.


----------



## redsquirrel (Sep 2, 2011)

Zimbabwe continuing their comeback form too, 384 for 7 against Pakistan.


----------



## gabi (Sep 2, 2011)

i still cant take any pakistan game seriously. and never will again. corrupt from top to bottom.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 2, 2011)

I'm starting to think that T20 is a live only game. It's oddly dull to watch as highlights.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 2, 2011)

I think Bollinger would be a good bowler in a feared and dominant Aussie side. I think in a beaten and unrated side, people will slap him around.


----------



## strung out (Sep 2, 2011)

i managed to send a grand total of 9 emails at work today and spent the other 7 hours following zimbabwe vs pakistan on cricinfo


----------



## embree (Sep 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Harris won't stay fit. He's already on borrowed time with his knee. Good to see him persevering with test cricket, though, and not doing a Malinga.
> 
> Very early to say anything about Lyon. The first innings here was his first ever first class five-fer!



It was only around his fifth first class game! Way too early to start making judgments really


----------



## embree (Sep 3, 2011)

Jayawardene's 29th Test century supported by Angelo Mathews sees Sri Lanka finally digging in and showing some fight. Still a likely Australian victory but good to see the Lankans aren't quite as useless as the first three days (and their entire England tour) suggested. Having said that, Jayawardene's just got out

Lyon 0/69 so far - 19 wickets in five FC matches, five of which were in the first innings of this Test


----------



## embree (Sep 3, 2011)

India avoid defeat against England for the first time on the tour


----------



## gabi (Sep 5, 2011)

lol. england were gonna get spanked there and u know it. even the groundsman's best work at tilting it in favour of the poms wouldn't have saved em - only nature itself did.


----------



## Santino (Sep 5, 2011)

No, England would have won with 2 overs to spare, Bell recording an unbeaten century.


----------



## gabi (Sep 5, 2011)

this new indian opener (reihane?) looks properly sharp. very organised, great technique and scoring rate. good to see.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 5, 2011)

I struggle to care about the extended hit-and-giggle. Why do they insist on tacking it onto the end of test series now. It always used to serve as the tasty if unsubstantial appetiser to the main course, but now it's some kind of sickly sweet dessert that nobody has room for.


----------



## gabi (Sep 5, 2011)

i like 50 overs. the 20/20 was nonsense tho. total lottery.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 5, 2011)

I like 50 overs if it's coming at the start of a tour, not at the end. The test series has been decided. Who cares about anything else now?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not opposed to all limited overs cricket. I used to really enjoy watching the natwest/gillette trophy on tv, and even the Sunday League, in the days when there was cricket on TV. I've also only ever been to one-day matches at county level. Very enjoyable and if you're not well-versed in the County Championship, it makes more sense to go to a one-day match, I think.


----------



## gabi (Sep 5, 2011)

i assume the ECB did a deal with the BCCI - viewing figures in india are very low for test cricket as opposed to limited overs. the players are plainly over it tho. dont blame em.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 6, 2011)

This going well.

India 101-1 after 13 overs. 23 over game.


----------



## strung out (Sep 6, 2011)

easy win for england


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 6, 2011)

yeah. Reasonably satisfactory all round, I reckon.


----------



## Santino (Sep 7, 2011)

Couple more injuries and I expect to be receiving the call to join the India squad.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Sep 8, 2011)

Sri Lanka skittled again.

Ryan Harris is nearly 32. Where has he been all these years?


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## agricola (Sep 9, 2011)

The humiliation continues in front of a half-empty Oval. India 25/4 after 10 and a bit overs.


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## gabi (Sep 9, 2011)

Not cool for indian fans. not to mention english fans who've paid £60 for the privilege of watching this nonsense.


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## Badgers (Sep 9, 2011)

The Indian chap in the office now hates cricket


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## agricola (Sep 9, 2011)

gabi said:


> Not cool for indian fans. not to mention english fans who've paid £60 for the privilege of watching this nonsense.



Given how the wickets have been recieved in silence, I think its only the Indian fans who have paid up to come and watch this.


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## gabi (Sep 9, 2011)

Nah. I've got colleagues there. who bought their tickets months ago.


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## agricola (Sep 9, 2011)

From looking like a farce, that was actually quite a good game. Jadeja looks decent, and the comedy stylings of Munaf Patel amused a great deal.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 11, 2011)

Seems like Steven Finn has found some extra pace while he's not been playing. His fastest ball today has been 94.8mph, average over 92mph.


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## two sheds (Sep 11, 2011)

Loving this one.

Listening to R5 live and you do have to say that the commentators get the perfect balance. They're English so you can tell they want England to win but saying that they are scrupulously fair - if someone's out they say 'ooo he's out' nomatter what side they're on, and you get the impression that their favourite match would be England just edging it in the last over with Nos. 10 and 11 scampering a single off the last ball of the final over.


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## strung out (Sep 11, 2011)

go on ravi!


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## strung out (Sep 11, 2011)




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## two sheds (Sep 11, 2011)

Wehey fine game - India deserved it tbh, after the other one they won if it weren't for the weather.


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## strung out (Sep 11, 2011)

looks like this is going to be a tie. india still can't win a game


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## redsquirrel (Sep 15, 2011)

Well it looks like Harris is injured already, exactly as many of us predicted.


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

Anyone fancy a server fund bet?

I think India can win this from here.

I'll make India 290/320 runs for this innings.

Anyone want to buy or sell runs at 10 pence per run?


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Not quite sure how that works tbh. If I think they'll get 280, what do I do?


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not quite sure how that works tbh. If I think they'll get 280, what do I do?



You'd "sell" runs at 290.

I think the minimum India run score will be 290, you think they'll score 280.

Therefore if you "sell" runs at 10p a run (and they scored 280), you'd win a quid (290-280=10: times 10p - £1).

However, if you get it wrong and India score more than 280, you *lose* 10p for every run they score_ over_ 280.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Alright, if you're still on, I'll sell at, um, 20p?


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

That was a bad bet, wasn't it?​


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Alright, if you're still on, I'll sell at, um, 20p?



This means that every run LESS than 290 that India make, I owe you 20p.

For every run they score OVER 290, you owe me 20p.

*Is this the bet that you want to make?*


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Yeah


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah



Ok, we're done.

From now on every run is worth 20p to one or the other of us. You want India to score as few as possible, I want sixes and fours!

If India pass 290, you're losing 20p a run.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh bugger


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

You're going to be coughing up mate.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

I should know better by now. I always, always, always lose bets.

Great over from Finn, keeping my losses down.


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I should know better by now. I always, always, always lose bets.



This'll be pennies, don't worry about it.


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## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Hey, there's still hope yet lbj 

How many wickets can they lose in an over?


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

Lbj, now out of the money buy 60p.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Pah!


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

That last shot just cost Lbj £1.20.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

ffs. That dropped catch cost me more than that.

Terrible last over.

2.80. I'll round it up to an even three quid.


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## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

£2.40 then.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> £2.40 then.


Maths was never your strong point


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## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Wasn't the final score 302?


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> £2.40 then.



I make it £2.80 (14 times 20p) owed by LBJ.

Ok. Next price is on the number of sixes scored in the game (both innings).

I'll make 6/7 at a quid a six (three scored so far I think).


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## kabbes (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh, apparently it was 304.  Not sure how that happened.  Was there 2 scored on the last ball?


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

So if I buy, we're even on 7, but I start winning on 8?


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> So if I buy, we're even on 7, but I start winning on 8?



Yep.

I'll make it £2 per six if you fancy.

That's a very generous price I have to say. The most I can win is £6. You're upside is unlimited.

Too many glasses of Barolo!


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Ahh, Barolo...

Um, go on then.

I bet it rains all night now.

(Why do I get the feeling I've been suckered? England aren't exactly chocker-full of six-hitters.)


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ahh, Barolo...
> 
> Um, go on then.
> 
> ...



They only have to hit 4 'sixes' to get you in the money (by my reckoning), and they're going to be going for it. I think that's in your favour.

I'd make a price on 'fours' if I could find out how many India have hit so far.

Got a site that'll tell us?


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> They only have to hit 4 'sixes' to get you in the money (by my reckoning), and they're going to be going for it. I think that's in your favour.
> 
> I'd make a price on 'fours' if I could find out how many India have hit so far.
> 
> Got a site that'll tell us?



Ok. India hit 4 'sixes'  so you're in the money after England hit 3.

They hit 21 'fours'.

So I'll make England 17/25 on 'fours'.

Want some, at a quid a 'four'?

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/engine/match/474481.html


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Now that Messers Duckworth and Lewis have become involved, no, not that.


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## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2011)

Th





Spymaster said:


> So I'll make England 17/25 on 'fours'.
> 
> Want some, at a quid a 'four'?
> 
> http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2011/engine/match/474481.html



This bet is suspended due to the initiation of Duckworth Lewis accounting.

More bets to follow ....


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## twentythreedom (Sep 16, 2011)

Not sure that Bell and Trott are the ideal pair for this run chase 

...eta: he says as Trott smacks 3 sixes in the next over!


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## twentythreedom (Sep 16, 2011)

That Bairstow fella's pretty handy. Funny how it's like he's daddying Bopara!


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Eight sixes!


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## Lo Siento. (Sep 16, 2011)

what was it 73 in 8 overs to get, finished with 2 to spare


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

Well, that's that. Good tour for India all in all. They beat three out of the four teams they played.


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## twentythreedom (Sep 16, 2011)

England win by 6 wickets, and win the series 3-0. Something of a whitewash, or a gingerwash in part at least 

I hope the crushing of India on this tour gives the BCCI a kick up the fucking arse. The Indian players mostly look completely exhausted and bored.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 16, 2011)

India need to find some bowlers. They're in for a sharp decline in all forms of the game if they don't. I think this tour has highlighted just how completely dependent on Zaheer Khan they have been in the last few years. They looked lost without him, tbh.


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 16, 2011)

how much champagne did they waste there?


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## twentythreedom (Sep 16, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> how much champagne did they waste there?



A bit vulgar, given the current state of the economy. Some poor people could've drunk that shit ffs.


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## Kizmet (Sep 17, 2011)

Let them drink bubbly, eh?


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## strung out (Sep 23, 2011)

ravibop with the best ever 20/20 figures for an england bowler ever!


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 23, 2011)

Both teams and tms have their second string outfits on show.


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## strung out (Sep 23, 2011)

only 20/20 though, so doesn't really matter


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 23, 2011)

No, it doesn't matter in the slightest. WI second-string batsmen look pretty crap, though. Let's face it, their first string isn't all that...

It does sadden me a bit that WI should be turning out such a poor team. It seems demeaning somehow, this whole exercise. Penance for the craven greed cricket showed towards Stanford. That Sky have held them to the contract says everything about where Sky's heart lies, also. They tried to sell their souls to Stanford but failed. With Sky they have succeeded.


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## twentythreedom (Sep 23, 2011)

This is all a bit shit really, nice to win again but the Windies are rubbish. Annoying to see Chris Gayle playing in the CLT20 in India earlier - he should be playing for the national side


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 23, 2011)

Gayle might never play for WI again. Nor Pollard. Kieron Pollard is one of the highest paid cricketers in the world, and he makes virtually none of his money playing for West Indies. It's all very sad. The IPl is doing enormous damage to the game of cricket, imo. I curse whoever first thought of 2020, tbh.


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## twentythreedom (Sep 23, 2011)

The Windies' pyjamas are fucking hideous, especially the technicolour jumper thing - what was so wrong with everyone wearing whites to play the great game?!? I dunno....  I remember when it was all trees etc..


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## twentythreedom (Sep 23, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Gayle might never play for WI again. Nor Pollard. Kieron Pollard is one of the highest paid cricketers in the world, and he makes virtually none of his money playing for West Indies. It's all very sad. The IPl is doing enormous damage to the game of cricket, imo. I curse whoever first thought of 2020, tbh.



tbh I totally agree. ICC and BCCI have a lot to answer for 

Loads of corrupt administrators have fucked the game, sold it out bit by bit.

It's sad to see players like Pollard et al neglecting the national side and operating as a mercenary... If we're gonna do pointless games like these T20s v WI, then at the very least the big names should turn up, to give it any chance of credibility


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 23, 2011)

It's not just India. Giles cunt Clarke has done the same thing for England. They bent over to be fucked by Stanford too. And they have sold the game out to Sky. Administrators treating a national pastime as if it were a capitalist business.  Same in football, of course. Same in everything.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 23, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> It's sad to see players like Pollard et al neglecting the national side and operating as a mercenary... If we're gonna do pointless games like these T20s v WI, then at the very least the big names should turn up, to give it any chance of credibility


It's the same thing as happened in football. Now that players are millionaires - and the likes of Gayle and Pollard are millionaires now - they care less about the game than players did when they scratched a living from it. The more money you give them, the less they care.

Ultimately playing sport ought to be all about 1. the taking part and yes 2. the glory of doing well. It is an end in itself, or should be.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 23, 2011)

Well that's that. Miserable game.


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## paulhackett (Sep 23, 2011)

Tickets still available for Sunday at £65 a pop..


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## twentythreedom (Sep 23, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's not just India. Giles cunt Clarke has done the same thing for England. They bent over to be fucked by Stanford too. And they have sold the game out to Sky. Administrators treating a national pastime as if it were a capitalist business.  Same in football, of course. Same in everything.



Yeah. You're right


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## agricola (Sep 25, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Well that's that. Miserable game.



That was a joy-filled love balloon compared to this farce today. WI - who have included someone who hasnt even played a first class game - currently 62/3 after 14 overs, having entertained the crowd for precisely one ball of that innings.


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

I can't see this being too much trouble for England. But you never know..


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh. I shouldn't've said that


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

Ah shite... 55-6


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh god...


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

And another FFS... currently 84-8. My fault


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh crap 85-9


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

That Bishoo fella looks like a chopsocky movie character, nasty gangster type. Imagine him badly dubbed, sledging


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

Game over, 88 all out


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## Santino (Sep 25, 2011)

Home, sweet home.


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## twentythreedom (Sep 25, 2011)

It's good to be back. I've missed the old place. Bit dusty, but much the same as I remember.


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## paulhackett (Sep 28, 2011)

Perfect weather for cricket.. so no cricket


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 28, 2011)

Next year's fixtures. Two tests in May. ODIs still after the tests when noone cares.

And an entirely pointless odi series against Australia right in the middle of the summer. That's just not right. The aussies should come here for the Ashes and otherwise be barred entry, surely.

Almost two months between tests 3 and 4 of the summer, with a load of old tosh taking up the prime dates of the calendar. 



> May 17-21 - 1st Test v West Indies, Lord's
> May 25-29 - 2nd Test v West Indies, Trent Bridge
> June 7-11 - 3rd Test v West Indies, Edgbaston
> June 16 - 1st ODI v West Indies, Rose Bowl
> ...



Sorry to moan, but wtf?

I thoroughly disapprove of this new concept of a purely one-day tour. Not needed and not necessary. Who cares?


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## strung out (Sep 28, 2011)

the gap between june 11th and july 19th is a little over 1 month rather than nearly 2 months, but yeah, i agree with you mostly. money innit.


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 28, 2011)

Second tour in a row that the Windies have been allocated May for their first tests. Hope they get better weather this time, and will they have any lead-up practice matches? If not, it could be a really shit series like the last one was.


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## kabbes (Sep 28, 2011)

Fuck limited overs cricket.  "It's not worse, just different" they said.  "There's room in cricket for both", they said.  Well what a load of crap that turned out to be.


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## Santino (Sep 28, 2011)

Why are there only three Tests against South Africa? FFS.


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## kabbes (Sep 28, 2011)

Santino said:


> Why are there only three Tests against South Africa? FFS.


Because of "harmless, fun" limited overs rubbish.


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## paulhackett (Sep 28, 2011)

When is the Olympics?
When does the IPL end (so how parred down will the WI be)?
On the plus side WI get 3 tests rather than the fill in 2 from 2009..
Pfft.. May tests are a bit rubbish and low key and serving them as an appetiser to the second half of the season doesn't help.
Pfft.


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## Santino (Sep 28, 2011)

Oh yeah, the Olympics will be a factor. Ancient Greek bastards. They invented gayness!


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## kabbes (Sep 28, 2011)

There has to be a sizable segment of the cricket audience that couldn't give a crap about the Olympics.


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## paulhackett (Sep 28, 2011)

Isn't it Archery at Lords and baseball at the Oval or something?


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## littlebabyjesus (Sep 28, 2011)

Headingley test is during the Olympics, apparently. Oh and the final test of the year is not at the Oval! I know some traditions are pointless and not worth preserving, but that's one pointless tradition I'm rather attached to.


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