# Half Moon  Herne Hill reopening



## Fingers (Nov 29, 2015)

I think this campaign deserves a post of it's own for updates instead of being buried in the Herne Hill thread.  Another potential loss of a live music venue in south London, not just that but a pub that welcomed me to London and a pub that has provided me with so many brilliant friends. 

Last week I wrote an article for Brixton Buzz about the campaign that is now under way and will keep the thread updated as and when new stuff happens like council meeting/ACV updates etc.

Campaign to save the Herne Hill’s Half Moon pub gathers momentum with an ACV application


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## Fingers (Nov 30, 2015)

editor  Can you change the link at the bottom of the article to this thread please.  Cheers


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 30, 2015)

We want the moon! miss it terribly and all the lovely drunks in it, we're all scattered to the winds now.


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## Brixton Hatter (Dec 2, 2015)

A crying shame it has been closed for so long. I've been drinking in there for the best part of 20 years. Me and Ms Hatter had our birthday in there just before it got flooded. A terrible waste. 

I will set up the cider bar in there if someone can get me the keys?


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## Fingers (Dec 2, 2015)

Update:

LATEST NEWS: After receiving representation from a number of members of this group and consulting with Herne Hill Forum earlier today, we have taken a decision to launch a Change.org petition to the Mayor of London to save the Half Moon Pub as a live music venue.

This new petition is entirely separate from the nomination process with Southwark Council to make the pub an Asset of Community Value, but we feel it will give an opportunity for everyone in our community make their voice heard to our elected Mayor, and assist us in making representation against any potential future planning application for change of use of the existing function room at the pub.

It remains for me to say, please click below and sign our petition! Thank you.
Boris Johnson: Save the Half Moon Pub in Herne Hill SE24 as a live music venue


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## ska invita (Dec 2, 2015)

So why are Dulwich Estate sitting on their hands over all the closed pubs on their turf? Anyone know?


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## Fingers (Dec 2, 2015)

ska invita said:


> So why are Dulwich Estate sitting on their hands over all the closed pubs on their turf? Anyone know?



Pretty much, they want to flog them off for posh unaffordable flats or posh hotel rooms... killing the music scene...

The Dog in Dulwich Village has fallen victim to hotel rooms, the other pub is already done and dusted as flats.

Things are coming under more scrutiny now


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## ska invita (Dec 2, 2015)

The Dog will have hotel rooms above to the pub though right? Surely none of the pub floor will be gone? Amazed that building isnt listed... I dread to think what theyve done to the interior.

The other one is the Harvester? Going to be flats is it? Thats sad....

So they're actively pursuing turning the Half Moon into flats?


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## Fingers (Dec 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


> The Dog will have hotel rooms above to the pub though right? Surely none of the pub floor will be gone? Amazed that building isnt listed... I dread to think what theyve done to the interior.
> 
> The other one is the Harvester? Going to be flats is it? Thats sad....
> 
> So they're actively pursuing turning the Half Moon into flats?



it does not matter so much for the Dog as it was not a live music venue but it will probably have repercussions on the beer garden. 

They tried to get planning permission to turn the upstairs of the Moon into flats but Southwark Council told them no. I have spent many a night kipping above the pub so know the layout and they could probably get three/four decent sized flats out of it with a tame pub downstairs but now that is off the cards they want to turn the upstairs into hotel rooms.  The campaign to to stop them doing that as it will kill off any chance of live music. 

Previously it was a boxing gym so no problem for the music.  If they want to use the upstairs they should convert it into something for daytime use or rent the rooms out as they previously were.


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## Fingers (Dec 11, 2015)

> LATEST NEWS: We were contacted by Southwark Council yesterday, who informed us that our nomination to make the Half Moon an Asset of Community Value (ACV) will go before the Council in the next week. This isn't a public meeting and the landlord Dulwich Estate has requested a copy of our ACV nomination. Clearly, this is a crucial time for our campaign, but we have made an extremely powerful case, and were also able to add the signatures/comments from our e-petition to the Council's case file for the nomination. I will let everyone know as soon as we hear anything further.
> 
> On another front, we have had discussions with the Music Venues Trust this week. They are very much aware of the situation regarding the future of the Half Moon as a Grassroots Music Venue (GMV). There is a strong possibility of the Mayor's office getting involved on our behalf. Again, I will keep everyone informed about the ongoing situation on this.
> 
> ...


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## ska invita (Dec 11, 2015)

Good news... Keep us posted if there's anything we can do beyond the petition....


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## Fingers (Dec 16, 2015)

> LATEST NEWS: This week we passed 5,500 signatures on our e-petition. We've also been helped by active support from members of the Mayor's Music Venues Taskforce, including the Music Venues Trust and the Musician's Union. This is a key step in building our campaign from one looking back at the history and heritage of live music at the Half Moon, to one looking actively forward to filling the venue to its 250-capacity on a regular basis.
> 
> SUNDAY MARKET: It's been confirmed by Herne Hill Forum that we have a community stall at the market this Sunday (20 Dec). The stall will run from 10am-4pm and we need people who are willing to do a shift for an hour. Those who have already been in touch I will add to the stall rota and confirm directly. If you would like to help for an hour, then please email savethehalfmoon@gmail.com, and we'll add your name to the rota. Do all come along and say 'hello' if you live locally, and also pick up your most excellent #‎savethehalfmoon campaign badge for 50p!


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## Fingers (Dec 22, 2015)

Oh I have some excellent news. Asset of Community Value order GRANTED!!


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## Fingers (Dec 22, 2015)

I can imagine there is some frothing going on at Dulwich Estates


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## Fingers (Jan 4, 2016)

Update:



> LATEST NEWS: We've had confirmation today from both Helen Hayes MP and Dulwich Society that The Dulwich Estate has confirmed that they have signed a lease on the Half Moon with pub operator Fuller Smith & Turner Plc (Fullers). According to Dulwich Society, 'It is hoped that the pub will re-open in the late summer of 2016'.
> 
> We will obviously continue to seek to stress the importance both of live music and of working with the local community as Fullers develop their plans. I will update everyone later this week on developments. The Distillers in Hammersmith is one example of a Fullers pub that hosts live music and open mic nights. Thanks again to everyone for your ongoing support. Happy to hear your views.


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## ska invita (Jan 4, 2016)

Thats great news...must say though, Fullers isnt really a chain I associate with live music, in fact the opposite, Fullers in my limited experience dont even have any background music playing....Looking up The DIstillers it seems like they have the odd acoustic turn and some comedy which is a different thing completely = Id still be very watchfull on this


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## editor (Jan 4, 2016)

Fingers said:


> Update:


Brilliant news! I've posted this on Buzz - but where was that statement posted? 

Half Moon pub in Herne Hill is saved and set to reopen in late summer 2016


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## editor (Jan 4, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Thats great news...must say though, Fullers isnt really a chain I associate with live music, in fact the opposite, Fullers in my limited experience dont even have any background music playing....Looking up The DIstillers it seems like they have the odd acoustic turn and some comedy which is a different thing completely = Id still be very watchfull on this


Fullers used to run several good music pubs back in the day. To be honest, I couldn't care if it's fucking one string ukuleles every night. The pub is coming back. That's all that is important right now.


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## Fingers (Jan 4, 2016)

editor said:


> Fullers used to run several good music pubs back in the day. To be honest, I couldn't care if it's fucking one string ukuleles every night. The pub is coming back. That's all that is important right now.



Here

The Dulwich Society


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## editor (Jan 4, 2016)

Fingers said:


> Here
> 
> The Dulwich Society


I saw that but it only has half of the statement! 

I see the full version by Peter Blair appears on the Facebook page - is he involved in the DS?.


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## Crispy (Jan 4, 2016)

Fantastic news


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## Fingers (Jan 4, 2016)

editor said:


> I saw that but it only has half of the statement!
> 
> I see the full version by Peter Blair appears on the Facebook page - is he involved in the DS?.



He ran the Save the Half Moon Campaign and has been working very closely with the Dulwich Society. I can get a quote from him for the article if you like


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## editor (Jan 4, 2016)

Fingers said:


> He ran the Save the Half Moon Campaign and has been working very closely with the Dulwich Society. I can get a quote from him for the article if you like


Please do, ASAP if poss!


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## ska invita (Jan 4, 2016)

Sorry to be pessimistic here, but the more i think about it the more im doubtfull you ever get anything rocking in that back room other than ukeleles...


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## Fingers (Jan 4, 2016)

editor said:


> Please do, ASAP if poss!



Just messaged him


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## Crispy (Jan 4, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Sorry to be pessimistic here, but the more i think about it the more im doubtfull you ever get anything rocking in that back room other than ukeleles...


I'll take "operating pub" over "dilapidating ruin" any day.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Sorry to be pessimistic here, but the more i think about it the more im doubtfull you ever get anything rocking in that back room other than ukeleles...


I don't give much of a fuck right now to be honest, Mr Doom. It was going to be yuppie flats or rot away for months and months. And now it's going to reopen as a pub. Isn't that enough for now?


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## ska invita (Jan 4, 2016)

May have misunderstood but I thought from Fingers posts that there were always plans to reopen it as a pub - that pub part of it was safe - it was about what happened with the upstairs rest of the building - and the campaign here was to keep flats away so it could stay a real music venue.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Sorry to be pessimistic here, but the more i think about it the more im doubtfull you ever get anything rocking in that back room other than ukeleles...


This guy wasn't playing a ukulele at their Distillers pub in W6:


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## ska invita (Jan 4, 2016)

That back room in the Half Moon was a rock venue with amps and shit. Fullers and that dont really add up in my book. I foresee the back room being knocked through, filled with tables and serving pub roasts and then  some gentle non offensive music in the corner "for the community" box ticking.

You have to admit that is a likely scenario....
Thats whats happening in the rest of London


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## editor (Jan 4, 2016)

ska invita said:


> That back room in the Half Moon was a rock venue with amps and shit. Fullers and that dont really add up in my book. I foresee the back room being knocked through, filled with tables and serving pub roasts and then  some gentle non offensive music in the corner "for the community" box ticking.
> 
> You have to admit that is a likely scenario....
> Thats whats happening in the rest of London


Yes that is indeed possible. As is the scenario of the pub's reopening dragging on for so long that it will never get to reopen as a pub again (See: The Plough, Stockwell). But right now, there is some hope.


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## ska invita (Jan 4, 2016)

Well, true I guess - at least it remains a pub. But my heart sinks at the ever decreasing music venues in London, and the draining of culture that goes with it. A Fullers will definitely keep Dulwich Estate happy.


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## ska invita (Jan 4, 2016)

This thread is in the Brixton forum and the Half Moon used to feel like part of Brixton. 
Fullers taking this over feels part of the Dulwichification of Brixton territory. Will be hard to tell the difference between the Regent, Commercial, Florence and Half Moon  

Im just sad at the monotone that London pubs are becoming


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 4, 2016)

I lived in Herne Hill for about ten years before moving down to Sydenham and the Moon was my local for all of that time, and I have to say I don't think the 'Brixton feel' and the 'music venue' part ever coincided in that time. For years the back room was never open, and when the new landlord took over and opened it up (which was great) he also moved it well in the direction of the rest of the Herne Hill pubs (not so good). It never quite got there because of the regulars in there but not for any other reason IMO. Maybe when it opens again then they'll come back - at least it'll be some sort of pub.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Well, true I guess - at least it remains a pub. But my heart sinks at the ever decreasing music venues in London, and the draining of culture that goes with it.


But that's as much down to fewer people going to smaller gigs though, no?

How often did people post here after seeing bands at the Half Moon before it closed? How many times did you go? (I'm not having a go here, but it's a conversation that should be aired). I can't say it felt remotely Brixton to me since about 2005 or something. 

Truth was that there was rarely much on there that caught my eye and the one time I did DJ there I wasn't exactly enamoured with the way that we were treated.

Of course, the landlord/booking agent plays a very big part in the success of a pub's live gigs - get the right one and you can still pack in the punters. Get the wrong one and the pub can be steered on an altogether less interesting course and it's hard to get that vibe back once it's gone.


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## ska invita (Jan 4, 2016)

Yeah agree with both of the above - I went a couple of times in the back room and it wasnt great either time, poor bands, empty and vibeless - but in my mind the spot was a lost opportunity and i had it chalked up as being mismanaged, or that Id come down on a shitter night and maybe occasionally there were good things on that i was missing.

Though even my experience of its failure still gave it an atmosphere that carried on into the main bar areas - it definitely had a character to it and some characters in it.


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## snowy_again (Jan 5, 2016)

To add some balance - I've been to, worked at and run nights at the HM in the last five years which were full, well supported by the two landlords in that time, and were successful.


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## ska invita (Jan 5, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> To add some balance - I've been to, worked at and run nights at the HM in the last five years which were full, well supported by the two landlords in that time, and were successful.


glad to hear it


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## Rushy (Jan 5, 2016)

Can't say that the idea of a Fullers pub exites the hell out of me.

Surprised antic didn't get in there. They could have opened it tomorrow with an authentic "flood damage" theme.


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## clandestino (Jan 5, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> To add some balance - I've been to, worked at and run nights at the HM in the last five years which were full, well supported by the two landlords in that time, and were successful.



Last time I went to a gig at the Half Moon it was sold out, packed, and responsible for the worst hangover I've had in five years. I think sitting drinking outside with the bands afterwards until the pub staff politely asked us to move on, as they'd shut ages ago, might have been part of it. A great night.


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## clandestino (Jan 5, 2016)

That was June 2013. Someone's blogged about that gig here, with a few hazy pics of the venue..
The All Thrills No Frills Music Bill: Allo Darlin' @ The Half Moon, Herne Hill, London, 20th June 2013


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## clandestino (Jan 5, 2016)

Last line of that blog review says it all:

"And that's how gigs should be, amazing venues, full of community, supporting independent bands and labels and promoters who work damn hard in really harsh times, and where you come away smiling."


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## Fingers (Jan 5, 2016)

'Iconic' south London pub set to reopen after it was closed by floods



> “We aim to be reopening the pub, complete with a small number of hotel bedrooms, in the late summer subject to gaining relevant planning and listed building consents.



Hmmmm


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## ska invita (Jan 5, 2016)

Fingers said:


> 'Iconic' south London pub set to reopen after it was closed by floods
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm



how much can you hear the music up there anyway fingers?

 Eric Clapton, U2, The Police and Paloma Faith & Frank Sinatra played it! I didnt know that.... good thing to use to fight for keeping it a music venue...


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## Fingers (Jan 5, 2016)

ska invita said:


> how much can you hear the music up there anyway fingers?
> 
> Eric Clapton, U2, The Police and Paloma Faith & Frank Sinatra played it! I didnt know that.... good thing to use to fight for keeping it a music venue...



Not a great deal in the winter, maybe a bit more in the summer with windows open.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 5, 2016)

Sinatra? For real?


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## ska invita (Jan 5, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Sinatra? For real?


supposedly that bit is pub myth


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 5, 2016)

editor said:


> This guy wasn't playing a ukulele at their Distillers pub in W6:


They have a cracking open mic night there, and the Fullers pub down the road from me in the Bush has a fair number of bands (tiny stage mind).

The thing is, though, while chains may be fine with the concept of music, particularly if the place has an existing reputation, they're not going to put any specific effort in themselves, so it all depends on somebody having somebody prepared to make the case and the effort consistently.


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## editor (Jan 5, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They have a cracking open mic night there, and the Fullers pub down the road from me in the Bush has a fair number of bands (tiny stage mind).
> 
> The thing is, though, while chains may be fine with the concept of music, particularly if the place has an existing reputation, they're not going to put any specific effort in themselves, so it all depends on somebody having somebody prepared to make the case and the effort consistently.


I'll see if Buzz can be in any way instrumental in stoking up the fires for live music there.


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## ska invita (Jan 5, 2016)

The worry for me is that the dedicated music room will be subsumed into the rest of the pub, and so the level and type of music that is possible will change..."music" is a nebulous word 

Once its subsumed it doesnt really matter who the promoter is, they will be limited by what they can and cant do.


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## Rushy (Jan 5, 2016)

To be honest, I like the fact that Herne Hill is very distinct from Brixton. Two quite different worlds, both of which I enjoy. Buzz has been doing an impressive job of drawing young mobs into Brixton. Perhaps Herne Hill could be allowed to do its own local thing rather than be touted out to the whole of London.


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## ska invita (Jan 5, 2016)

Nice try at a wind up post  ` 

I used to like drinking in Herne Hill... especially for a session of pool in the regent on those beautiful tables they used to have...occasional pop in to the Irish pub where the Florence is now... I think Herne Hill had its own unique character, distinct from Brixton and from Dulwich...feels a lot more like Dulwich these days though


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## Rushy (Jan 5, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Nice try at a wind up post  `
> 
> I used to like drinking in Herne Hill... especially for a session of pool in the regent on those beautiful tables they used to have...occasional pop in to the Irish pub where the Florence is now... I think Herne Hill had its own unique character, distinct from Brixton and from Dulwich...feels a lot more like Dulwich these days though


Not a huge fan of the Florence - perhaps it's too made over? But The Commercial and Regent are great pub pubs. Some of the shops on the Half Moon side are a bit chi chi. But it's all pretty low key and laid back. It's a nice contrast.


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## footballerslegs (Jan 6, 2016)

Any idea of Fuller pubs and whether they show sport? I watched a few football games in the Half Moon years ago, and (as far as I can work out) there are no Herne Hill pubs with Sky Sports or suchlike.

Fantastic news about it reopening as a pub either way.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 6, 2016)

footballerslegs said:


> Any idea of Fuller pubs and whether they show sport? I watched a few football games in the Half Moon years ago, and (as far as I can work out) there are no Herne Hill pubs with Sky Sports or suchlike.
> 
> Fantastic news about it reopening as a pub either way.


Some of them do, certainly.


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## footballerslegs (Jan 6, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Some of them do, certainly.



Well that's promising!


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## stdP (Jan 6, 2016)

Not been there for yonks myself but happy to see that the building will at least remain partly a pub, although from their blurb it still sounds like what's happening to the dog over Dulwich way which is now in something like it's 13th month of being closed for it's semi-hotel conversion. Fingers crossed for the half moon anyhow.

My last local, also a huge victorian booze cathedral, had the novel idea of turning the top two floors into flats and the staff given first dibs on renting them. I really should get a patent open on the whole "landlord living in the pub" concept, can't think why no-one's ever tried it before.


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## discobastard (Jan 6, 2016)

I saw two gigs there - Back to the Planet reunion and the Effras, both maybe 5 years ago?  Both nights were packed and a really great atmosphere.

I spoke to the landlady about costs for putting on a night there myself - my band's EP launch plus some mates' bands as a bit of a free for all.  It was only going to be 200 quid to hire the place which I thought was pretty decent.  But then we split up 

Hope it stays as a live room as I thought it was a great space.


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## technical (Jan 6, 2016)

At least its going to remain as a pub. 

Even in its last (brief) incarnation, it had gone upmarket though - no football, no pizzas etc and was much more of a gastropub than previously.


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## snowy_again (Jan 6, 2016)

But club nights in the back room restarted... even though the food was terrible and the pizza oven went.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 6, 2016)

Last gig I went to there was Darker My Love. A few years back now. They had a rubbish website and it was hard to tell what gigs were on. They seemed to have a lot of blues and covers bands too. 

The Darker My Love gig was very good, but not well attended or advertised...or organised. 

I hope they can get it up and working as a music space. I would go if there were acts on I want to see.


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## ska invita (Jan 6, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I hope they can get it up and working as a music space. I would go if there were acts on I want to see.


Same here....
Ive been thinking about putting on a little semi-regular DJ night somewhere south but at the moment cant find a venue that feels right...the Half Moon would be ideal if it were up and running


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 6, 2016)

We're doing a nite at the Hand in Hand in Feb. Did try it once before and it didn't really work out....but they have a different(ish) set up so gonna give it a whirl...


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## ska invita (Jan 6, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> We're doing a nite at the Hand in Hand in Feb. Did try it once before and it didn't really work out....but they have a different(ish) set up so gonna give it a whirl...


Ive never been there...best of luck with it
post it on urban please - always like to check out a new spot and would be nice to hear you play


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## DJWrongspeed (Jan 6, 2016)

ska invita said:


> The worry for me is that the dedicated music room will be subsumed into the rest of the pub, and so the level and type of music that is possible will change..."music" is a nebulous word
> 
> Once its subsumed it doesnt really matter who the promoter is, they will be limited by what they can and cant do.



Exactly. I doubt there's any incentive to keep a live music component. Fullers will be wanting a good return on their investment. I suspect it will end up a bit like the Tulse Hill Hotel. The pubs around Herne Hill are busy so Fullers know they can rely on attracting locals to a smart joint.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jan 6, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Same here....
> Ive been thinking about putting on a little semi-regular DJ night somewhere south but at the moment cant find a venue that feels right...the Half Moon would be ideal if it were up and running



Well Off the Cuff are doing a D'n'B night in March in their new bit. Might be worth checking out. It sounds a bit implausible but you never know


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## ska invita (Jan 6, 2016)




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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 6, 2016)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Well Off the Cuff are doing a D'n'B night in March in their new bit. Might be worth checking out. It sounds a bit implausible but you never know



Fierce and Bizzy B? That's pretty impressive to be fair to them.


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## ska invita (Jan 6, 2016)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Well Off the Cuff are doing a D'n'B night in March in their new bit. Might be worth checking out. It sounds a bit implausible but you never know


Just reading that again, how do you mean "new bit"? Off the Cuff just mean one thing to me and thats urban bunfights.... have they got a new bit of venue?


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## Rushy (Jan 6, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Just reading that again, how do you mean "new bit"? Off the Cuff just mean one thing to me and thats urban bunfights.... have they got a new bit of venue?


They've expanded into the arch next door. Guess they must be doing something right!


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## editor (Jan 7, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Just reading that again, how do you mean "new bit"? Off the Cuff just mean one thing to me and thats urban bunfights.... have they got a new bit of venue?


They've had a complete rethink and what they're offering seems to be a whole load better than before. Good for them.


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## editor (Jan 24, 2016)

Sad to say that it looks our worst fears may be realised: the Fullers proposals are (apparently) for a music-untroubled gastro pub...



> *Peter Blair*
> 2 hrs · London
> LATEST NEWS: Planning documents (16/AP/0167 & 16/AP/0168) for the Half Moon Pub have been submitted by Fullers to Southwark Council:
> 
> ...


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## ska invita (Jan 24, 2016)

Fu**ers


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## editor (Jan 24, 2016)

More: Campaigners rally to keep Herne Hill’s Half Moon as a music venue as gastropub plans are revealed


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## ska invita (Jan 25, 2016)

So the ACV specifically relates to the space as a music venue? The ACV must have some power or else Fullers wouldn't want it repealed.... But don't ACVs only leave one option, which is 6 months to buy the property by someone else? 

I'm just trying to understand what the options might be....


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## ska invita (Jan 25, 2016)

...maybe that group who run plan b and blues kitchen etc might be interested... They are in to music venues and they're putting on a festival in brockwell park this year... Proven track record and seem to have the capital


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## Rushy (Jan 25, 2016)

ska invita said:


> ...maybe that group who run plan b and blues kitchen etc might be interested... They are in to music venues and they're putting on a festival in brockwell park this year... Proven track record and seem to have the capital


Even though I signed the petition to keep a pub with music venue going, I reckon I'd object to it becoming one of their venues. Way too "big slick club" orientated and too intense for a small and relaxed centre like Herne Hill.


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## ska invita (Jan 25, 2016)

The most important thing is that it stays a music venue - once thats gone its gone. No going back from a gastropub
and if it comes to finding someone within just 6 months it may well need to be someone bigger
-this is all just talk of course


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## Rushy (Jan 25, 2016)

ska invita said:


> The most important thing is that it stays a music venue - once thats gone its gone


I hear where you are coming from but I don't agree. It needs to serve the community it is in. I don't think an XOYO night club would suit or serve this area at all well. It would be way too dominant.


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## ska invita (Jan 25, 2016)

This is a pointless argument as you are arguing over something that not only isnt happening, but the nature of which would be unknown.
There is no reason to think that they would turn in into XOYO. The Half Moon would remain as it is, with a little music room at the back. Theres no reason to believe that it would magically turn into a busy east end club.

Anyhow, what is worth talking about is what exactly are the options, and what are the time frames to achieve them, with the presumption that the ACV wont be repealed. How much weight does the ACV at present carry to stop Fullers in their plans. And so on.


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## Rushy (Jan 25, 2016)

ska invita said:


> This is a pointless argument as you are arguing over something that not only isnt happening, but the nature of which would be unknown.
> There is no reason to think that they would turn in into XOYO. The Half Moon would remain as it is, with a little music room at the back. Theres no reason to believe that it would magically turn into a busy east end club.


You appear to have meant "it's a pointless argument upon which I want to have the last word". 

Yours was a fair suggestion. Likewise, challenging it was not pointless. I think it would polarise the community and lead to a lot of people who would like and support a decent local music venue turning against it.


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## editor (Jan 25, 2016)

ska invita said:


> This is a pointless argument as you are arguing over something that not only isnt happening, but the nature of which would be unknown.
> There is no reason to think that they would turn in into XOYO. The Half Moon would remain as it is, with a little music room at the back. Theres no reason to believe that it would magically turn into a busy east end club.
> 
> Anyhow, what is worth talking about is what exactly are the options, and what are the time frames to achieve them, with the presumption that the ACV wont be repealed. How much weight does the ACV at present carry to stop Fullers in their plans. And so on.


Who the hell would want to turn it into an XOYO?! That's a bonkers suggestion.  

It's a music venue and has been one for decades, and it's clear by the list of bands who have played there that it's played a notable role in developing local talent and introducing great new acts to the area. As far as I'm concerned it's fucking important it stays as a music venue, particularly given the fact that we're losing so many elsewhere. Young talent needs a place to be nurtured and bands on the road need to have places to perform.

I'll do whatever I can to ensure that place stays as a gig venue.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 25, 2016)

ska invita said:


> So the ACV specifically relates to the space as a music venue? The ACV must have some power or else Fullers wouldn't want it repealed.... But don't ACVs only leave one option, which is 6 months to buy the property by someone else?
> 
> I'm just trying to understand what the options might be....



Presumably the music venue part was referred to in the case for making it an ACV. I don't think it has any impact on how that works once it's been granted though. As I understand it you're right - the only effect is that if the building was up for sale then the community group that registered it would have six months to come up with the money to buy it. As far as I understand it it doesn't have any effect on leasing which is a problem here as the building is owned by Dulwich Estates, who aren't about selling I don't think.


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## Rushy (Jan 25, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Presumably the music venue part was referred to in the case for making it an ACV. I don't think it has any impact on how that works once it's been granted though. As I understand it you're right - the only effect is that if the building was up for sale then the community group that registered it would have six months to come up with the money to buy it. As far as I understand it it doesn't have any effect on leasing which is a problem here as the building is owned by Dulwich Estates, who aren't about selling I don't think.


Only applies to leasehold disposals of more than 25 years as I understand it.

I reckon that unless protection is strengthened, the ACV is going to be of minimal value in London generally as the cost of buy out will almost always be so very high. 

I had not realised that the council has the power to  CPO an ACV.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 25, 2016)

It's also not a matter that's covered by Planning.

I'm sorry to say that I don't see much scope for any legalities method of retaining the music venue use. The only hope is appealing DE and Fullers' better natures.

From Fullers' point of view, it makes perfect business sense to put in a restaurant. They'll make far more money selling £20 dinners than they will £5 gig tickets.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 25, 2016)

Rushy said:


> Only applies to leasehold disposals of more than 25 years as I understand it.
> 
> I reckon that unless protection is strengthened, the ACV is going to be of minimal value in London generally as the cost of buy out will almost always be so very high.
> 
> I had not realised that the council has the power to  CPO an ACV.



Thanks - I didn't know that about the Leasehold.

I agree it's not going to help in a most cases. It obviously can be done - see the Ivy House - but the money involved is massive and only rising. Compared to the IH the cost of the Moon would be huge. 

I checked some figures on this on another thread and from memory as of about this time last year there had been 11 successful purchases, nationwide.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 25, 2016)

Crispy said:


> From Fullers' point of view, it makes perfect business sense to put in a restaurant. They'll make far more money selling £20 dinners than they will £5 gig tickets.



Yes unfortunately the commercial reasoning is pretty straightforward isn't it, otherwise we'd be seeing loads of restaurants closing so gig venues can be opened. I've no idea what you do to reverse that though - really you'd need to be able to convince people that twenty quid is reasonable for a pub gig, and good luck anyone trying to do that.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 25, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Thanks - I didn't know that about the Leasehold.
> 
> I agree it's not going to help in a most cases. It obviously can be done - see the Ivy House - but the money involved is massive and only rising. Compared to the IH the cost of the Moon would be huge.
> 
> I checked some figures on this on another thread and from memory as of about this time last year there had been 11 successful purchases, nationwide.


Yes. I read a similar number. Out of something close to 900 registrations. It's good in principle but not strong enough.

The simplest and most effective thing would be to change planning so that in the case of ACVs, there is a presumption against change of use or development.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2016)

Crispy said:


> It's also not a matter that's covered by Planning.
> 
> I'm sorry to say that I don't see much scope for any legalities method of retaining the music venue use. The only hope is appealing DE and Fullers' better natures.
> 
> From Fullers' point of view, it makes perfect business sense to put in a restaurant. They'll make far more money selling £20 dinners than they will £5 gig tickets.


They've already upset Jay Rayner (he retweeted my Buzz piece) and if there's enough negative 'noise' created by locals that may give them some pause for thought. Possibly.


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## discobastard (Jan 25, 2016)

editor said:


> They've already upset Jay Rayner (he retweeted my Buzz piece) and if there's enough negative 'noise' created by locals that may give them some pause for thought. Possibly.


Presumably some kind of business plan for a music venue and somebody with a solid background in booking and promoting gigs would be of most use in all this.  I doubt Fuller's have too much of that expertise in house and so in order for the community to retain it as a live music/comedy venue then perhaps the community will need to show that it's a sustainable and profitable venture?

I don't recall how often they had acts on at the Half Moon, but even in places that are well known for music in the area (Windmill, which I love) you still have nights where the place is near empty.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 25, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Presumably some kind of business plan for a music venue and somebody with a solid background in booking and promoting gigs would be of most use in all this.  I doubt Fuller's have too much of that expertise in house and so in order for the community to retain it as a live music/comedy venue then perhaps the community will need to show that it's a sustainable and profitable venture?
> 
> I don't recall how often they had acts on at the Half Moon, but even in places that are well known for music in the area (Windmill, which I love) you still have nights where the place is near empty.



As long as I've known the pub I think the back room has been largely incidental, if I'm honest. For a long time it was out of use and then once it was being used again I got the impression it was always a 'might as well, seeing as it's there' type thing. Patchy use, lots of cover bands etc. To do something like you're talking about (which would be great) would be a big step up. You'd need to commit more resources to organisation and make sure you were putting bands on with at least some degree of general recognition.

It's quite a big ask to get someone to take it on - there's more to it than just preserving its use IMO. When they did have known bands in it did used to get decent crowds though so I do think it's possible.


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## editor (Jan 25, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> As long as I've known the pub I think the back room has been largely incidental, if I'm honest. For a long time it was out of use and then once it was being used again I got the impression it was always a 'might as well, seeing as it's there' type thing. Patchy use, lots of cover bands etc. To do something like you're talking about (which would be great) would be a big step up. You'd need to commit more resources to organisation and make sure you were putting bands on with at least some degree of general recognition.
> 
> It's quite a big ask to get someone to take it on - there's more to it than just preserving its use IMO. When they did have known bands in in did used to get decent crowds though so I do think it's possible.


I think it's possible although I reckon they'd have to think a bit more out of the box and come up with interesting uses for the space and not just rely on gigs every night.

That said, with the loss of venues like the Grosvenor, Canterbury etc, there's a fairly big hole for small/mid sized venues, and venues like Hoot and the Windmill (both a fair way out of central Brixton)  show that it is is possible to attract audiences to live events. It will need good promoters though, and they are very hard to find.


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## Winot (Jan 25, 2016)

Look Mr. Tourette has done a sign


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## editor (Feb 1, 2016)

Love this pic:







Ant and Dec enjoying a pint in the Half Moon with Ronnie Corbett in 2008.Baftas 2008: Ant McPartlin, Ronnie Corbett and Declan Donnelly


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## Fingers (Feb 15, 2016)

> LATEST NEWS: We have been informed by Southwark Council today that Dulwich Estate, in league with Fuller's, is challenging our Asset of Community Value (ACV) status for the Half Moon Pub.
> 
> - Please do feel free to contact Dulwich Estate about this, saying that you support ACV status for the pub and would like to question them on their motives for using charitable funds to challenge its ACV status. Here is the email address of John E Major, Chief Executive -
> john.major@thedulwichestate.org.uk
> ...


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## editor (Feb 15, 2016)

Fancy writing a piece for Buzz on this? Be good to let more people know what this set of charmers are up to.


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## Fingers (Feb 15, 2016)

editor said:


> Fancy writing a piece for Buzz on this? Be good to let more people know what this set of charmers are up to.



Yeah will do it tomorrow mate


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## leanderman (Feb 16, 2016)

Dulwich estate also selling off a playing field used by a primary school on Half Moon Lane.


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## lordnoise (Feb 16, 2016)

The best pubs mean different things to different people and the Half Moon is a case in point. I valued the Half Moon not as a music venue but as football pub and I know many others did too.

The gentrification/gastroization of the Brockwell Park Taven (Florence), Commercial and Prince Regent meant that the Half Moon became the only place to show the Sky/BT games in the area. 

I'm happy to support those who want live music kept but would appreciate their support in trying to keep football on TV in there.

Be great to hear from others who feel the same and if there is a lot of response (and to avoid a thread hi-jack) perhaps the Keep TV Football in the Half Moon campaign should have its own thread.


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## Fingers (Feb 16, 2016)

editor Just emailed you the article


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## Fingers (Feb 16, 2016)

I have written an article on the latest developments. Fullers are denying being involved in challenging the ACV 

The Dulwich Estate set to challenge ACV order on the Half Moon in Herne Hill


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## snowy_again (Feb 16, 2016)

Fullers FB page is getting a few Half Moon comments on it too.


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## snowy_again (Feb 16, 2016)

Hmm: The Half Moon - Our Plans - Fuller's


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## aka (Feb 16, 2016)

"we do not believe that the pub is economically viable with a strong focus on live music"


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## editor (Feb 16, 2016)

aka said:


> "we do not believe that the pub is economically viable with a strong focus on live music"


That's bullshit. Breweries and landlords often don't book the bands - they leave that to agencies and promoters. Indeed, that's how the very successful Fuller's music circuit of the 70s/80s used to operate.

Anyway, here's my response:  Fuller’s lay down the BS as they publish their ‘no live music’ vision for the Half Moon, Herne Hill


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## DJWrongspeed (Feb 16, 2016)

aka said:


> "we do not believe that the pub is economically viable with a strong focus on live music"



I agree to some extent. If you're Fuller's mgt looking at restoring a huge pub costing ££££s the risk of investing in live music is not a big priority. Herne Hill is not on the tube and has never been a particularly happening late night place. Who remembers the fate of the Jazz bar opposite the station on Railton Rd?

The White Hart is now football central !


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## editor (Feb 16, 2016)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I agree to some extent. If you're Fuller's mgt looking at restoring a huge pub costing ££££s the risk of investing in live music is not a big priority. Herne Hill is not on the tube and has never been a particularly happening late night place. Who remembers the fate of the Jazz bar opposite the station on Railton Rd?


There's no shortage of music venues located some distance from a tube that manage to thrive, the Hideaway in Streatham being a good example. It doesn't have to be music every night of course, but just retaining the ability to put on live shows/DJ nights. PA equipment isn't particularly expensive for small venues and if they hook up with a decent agency/promoter, there's no reason why they couldn't make a success of the place.

I suspect that they can't be arsed and the only 'community' they want is the big spending one, so they should just spare the bullshit. Yeah, I know. That's how capitalism works, suck it up etc etc.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 16, 2016)

editor said:


> There's no shortage of music venues located some distance from a tube that manage to thrive, the Hideaway in Streatham being a good example. It doesn't have to be music every night of course, but just retaining the ability to put on live shows/DJ nights. PA equipment isn't particularly expensive for small venues and if they hook up with a decent agency/promoter, there's no reason why they couldn't make a success of the place.



We were in the much maligned (including by me) Off the Cuff Bar just round the corner from the Moon recently to watch some bands - they seemed to be doing very well. 


Charging a fortune for beer, annoyingly, but apart from that they seem to have sorted it out quite nicely there.


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## editor (Feb 16, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> We were in the much maligned (including by me) Off the Cuff Bar just round the corner from the Moon recently to watch some bands - they seemed to be doing very well.
> 
> 
> Charging a fortune for beer, annoyingly, but apart from that they seem to have sorted it out quite nicely there.


Yes, I've been hearing positive things about the place recently. Good for them for giving up on their bonkers original plan.


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## twistedAM (Feb 17, 2016)

editor said:


> That's bullshit. Breweries and landlords often don't book the bands - they leave that to agencies and promoters. Indeed, that's how the very successful Fuller's music circuit of the 70s/80s used to operate.
> 
> Anyway, here's my response:  Fuller’s lay down the BS as they publish their ‘no live music’ vision for the Half Moon, Herne Hill



Things have changed a lot since the 70s/80s though; indeed they've changed a heck of a lot in the last five years when it comes to booking in live acts. Which Fullers pubs that do live music are you referring to in the article? Had a quick google and all I could find are a couple that do acoustic events and open mics in the  middle of the week which isn't too challenging on those out for an artisan/gastro meal.

Anyway when reading the press release this is the line that jumped out at me: "We hope to be open, complete with a small number of hotel bedrooms, in the late summer". I bet the Tulse Hill Hotel (the scene of the Fat White Family's first promotions) no longer does live music now they have boutique rooms above.


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## editor (Feb 17, 2016)

twistedAM said:


> Things have changed a lot since the 70s/80s though; indeed they've changed a heck of a lot in the last five years when it comes to booking in live acts. Which Fullers pubs that do live music are you referring to in the article? Had a quick google and all I could find are a couple that do acoustic events and open mics in the  middle of the week which isn't too challenging on those out for an artisan/gastro meal.
> 
> Anyway when reading the press release this is the line that jumped out at me: "We hope to be open, complete with a small number of hotel bedrooms, in the late summer". I bet the Tulse Hill Hotel (the scene of the Fat White Family's first promotions) no longer does live music now they have boutique rooms above.


Of course things have changed, but the Half Moon was far more of a fixture on the music scene than the Tulse Hill Hotel.

As you say, things have changed since the 70s, but I don't think anyone was expecting the pub to return exactly as it was, but to completely eliminate all live music with something of a bollocks excuse really rankles. Local acts need somewhere to play and I think it's good that people aren't letting this venue go without a fight, else we'll end up in a bland world of fucking gastropubs and boutique hotels everywhere.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 17, 2016)

They haven't got planning for any hotel rooms have they?


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## twistedAM (Feb 17, 2016)

editor said:


> Of course things have changed, but the Half Moon was far more of a fixture on the music scene than the Tulse Hill Hotel.
> 
> As you say, things have changed since the 70s, but I don't think anyone was expecting the pub to return exactly as it was, but to completely eliminate all live music with something of a bollocks excuse really rankles. Local acts need somewhere to play and I think it's good that people aren't letting this venue go without a fight, else we'll end up in a bland world of fucking gastropubs and boutique hotels everywhere.



Yeah, good luck to them. Going to be a tough one though. Perhaps the most famous indie venue in the whole city (Bull + Gate, Kentish Town) got gastropubbed by Youngs.


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## twistedAM (Feb 17, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> They haven't got planning for any hotel rooms have they?



Nope but if you were to have a bet on the outcome.....


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## editor (Feb 17, 2016)

twistedAM said:


> Yeah, good luck to them. Going to be a tough one though. Perhaps the most famous indie venue in the whole city (Bull + Gate, Kentish Town) got gastropubbed by Youngs.


I think it's tough for any pub once the developers and landlords start thinking of the quick-buck, short term gains to be made in the current fucked up property market.


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## twistedAM (Feb 17, 2016)

editor said:


> I think it's tough for any pub once the developers and landlords start thinking of the quick-buck, short term gains to be made in the current fucked up property market.



Yep more money to be made out of burgers and rosemary chips than live music...sorry to sound grim on this but just look at the Crystal Palace pubs; none of them even show sports anymore (well apart from rugby cos that's the clientele they want to get in and scoff overpriced minced meat and buy bottles of wine)


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## editor (Feb 17, 2016)

twistedAM said:


> Yep more money to be made out of burgers and rosemary chips than live music...sorry to sound grim on this but just look at the Crystal Palace pubs; none of them even show sports anymore (well apart from rugby cos that's the clientele they want to get in and scoff overpriced minced meat and buy bottles of wine)


Peak brioche has to be reached soon.


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## goldengraham (Feb 17, 2016)

lordnoise said:


> The best pubs mean different things to different people and the Half Moon is a case in point. I valued the Half Moon not as a music venue but as football pub and I know many others did too.
> 
> The gentrification/gastroization of the Brockwell Park Taven (Florence), Commercial and Prince Regent meant that the Half Moon became the only place to show the Sky/BT games in the area.
> 
> ...



re football, not sure you can blame pubs for abandoning sports these days. A typical Sky pub subscription costs £15k a year. It's an all or nothing strategy, and thanks to the stuipd economics of televised football, one in which you are hostage to ever spiralling costs


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 17, 2016)

goldengraham said:


> re football, not sure you can blame pubs for abandoning sports these days. A typical Sky pub subscription costs £15k a year. It's an all or nothing strategy, and thanks to the stuipd economics of televised football, one in which you are hostage to ever spiralling costs



That's true but if it pays for itself anywhere I think it would at the Moon. There's a huge area round there now with nowhere showing games, and before it closed it was always much busier when games were on - completely rammed for big matches.


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## lordnoise (Feb 17, 2016)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I agree to some extent. If you're Fuller's mgt looking at restoring a huge pub costing ££££s the risk of investing in live music is not a big priority. Herne Hill is not on the tube and has never been a particularly happening late night place. Who remembers the fate of the Jazz bar opposite the station on Railton Rd?
> 
> The White Hart is now football central !



I forgot to add that all the pubs quoted did or still do serve fairly decent beer (real or craft) which is a must for me and last time I looked in on the White Hart I don't remember seeing any. Tulse Hills otherwise excellent Railway suffers footballwise as they have a habit of turning the sound down.


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## footballerslegs (Feb 18, 2016)

Excellent post here by Jay Rayner on the motives of Dulwich Estates (and who I also saw yesterday being interviewed on camera outside the pub): 

How a toy shop closed to pay for pupils at Dulwich College (and Alleyn's and JAGS) | Jay Rayner


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## snowy_again (Feb 18, 2016)

Planning types - can you help?

The planning application is here 

Lots of previous planning apps (414 etc.) have had objections which were emotional and right, but didn't actually address the planning issues being examined. 

Any ideas what specifics to object to? teuchter


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## articletwo (Feb 18, 2016)

footballerslegs said:


> Excellent post here by Jay Rayner on the motives of Dulwich Estates (and who I also saw yesterday being interviewed on camera outside the pub):
> 
> How a toy shop closed to pay for pupils at Dulwich College (and Alleyn's and JAGS) | Jay Rayner




Is it really an “excellent post” by Jay Rayner?

When he fails to mention that:

the people behind the Just Williams chain of stores include a millionaire banker


they aren’t a part of this community – instead, they choose to live in a mansion in Croydon


the Chief Exec of the Dulwich Estate has said that the tenant was offered a new lease (in accordance with the Landlord and Tenant Act) at a rent rise of 29%, not 70%, reflecting the movement in rents since the previous rent was fixed in 2010


that the tenant failed to negotiate with the Estate on their offer of a new lease

By supporting the Just Williams owners, Jay Rayner (and everyone else taking their side) is prioritising the interests of wealthy business owners over a charity – which however imperfect does use its income for various charitable purposes.

Note that I attempted to post the above on Mr Rayner’s site, but he didn’t allow it – it seems that not only is he a sloppy journalist, he is one that is not willing to tolerate fact-based criticism of his work.


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## editor (Feb 18, 2016)

articletwo said:


> Is it really an “excellent post” by Jay Rayner?
> 
> When he fails to mention that:
> 
> ...


Interesting points, but just because something is registered as a charity is doesn't automatically mean that people should support it.


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## discobastard (Feb 18, 2016)

editor said:


> Interesting points, but just because something is registered as a charity is doesn't automatically mean that people should support it.


I don't think articletwo is suggesting that at all. 

I think it provides some excellent balance though.  Just William also have quarter of a million in assets in the business and shops in Clapham and East Dulwich. Sure they'll be ok.


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## discobastard (Feb 18, 2016)

A question I've been wondering about. Re the half moon petition. 

Does anybody know whether or not the community campaign has actually attempted to speak to Fullers directly?


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## colacubes (Feb 18, 2016)

discobastard said:


> A question I've been wondering about. Re the petition etc about the half moon.
> 
> Does anybody know whether or not the community campaign has actually attempted to speak to Fullers directly?



I saw a post on Facebook on the campaign page that they were speaking to Fuller's representatives in the next few days.


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## discobastard (Feb 18, 2016)

colacubes said:


> I saw a post on Facebook on the campaign page that they were speaking to Fuller's representatives in the next few days.


That's good. I've been thinking that's probably the best thing to do. 

It's fair enough that it's unlikely to be a dedicated music venue but if the community wants to keep live music there then coming up with some proposals as to how that might work would be sensible. 

I'm sure they're open to negotiating if somebody has some considered plans.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 18, 2016)

discobastard said:


> I'm sure they're open to negotiating if somebody has some considered plans.


I think that's a bit optimistic, certainly in terms of retaining a dedicated music area rather than a space in the main pub to have a few bands on in every now and then (and I'm not sure they'd even go for that given the familygastro tone of their announcement).


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2016)

colacubes said:


> I saw a post on Facebook on the campaign page that they were speaking to Fuller's representatives in the next few days.


Given their clear statement on the subject, I suspect the most they'll be offered is the chance for an acoustic guitarist to strum quietly in the corner somewhere. For one night a week. So long as it doesn't disturb the diners. Maybe.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 18, 2016)

I did post earlier that Fullers as a chain didn't have a complete "no live music" policy, which is true—as it happens, right now I'm in a Fullers pub waiting for a band to start. But this place has apparently been designated as suitable for live music. Doesn't sound like the demographic they have planned for the Half Moon is at all.


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## discobastard (Feb 19, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think that's a bit optimistic, certainly in terms of retaining a dedicated music area rather than a space in the main pub to have a few bands on in every now and then (and I'm not sure they'd even go for that given the familygastro tone of their announcement).


Agreed.  And I meant in being possibly unrealistic in terms of a 'dedicated music venue'.  Which is what Fullers are claiming the community is demanding.  That doesn't mean an alternative solution can't be found.  But nobody is talking about that.  I hope that finally approaching Fullers (as colacubes posted earlier) might find another solution that works for the community and the business.  I have lenty more to say about that but its late and I'm not coherent.


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## discobastard (Feb 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Given their clear statement on the subject, I suspect the most they'll be offered is the chance for an acoustic guitarist to strum quietly in the corner somewhere. For one night a week. So long as it doesn't disturb the diners. Maybe.


That is very defeatist editor, is it not?  And that's not like you.  Let's see if we can make it more than that through negotiation rather than just chucking abuse at them?  Has to be worth a go eh?


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## editor (Feb 19, 2016)

discobastard said:


> That is very defeatist editor, is it not?  And that's not like you.  Let's see if we can make it more than that through negotiation rather than just chucking abuse at them?  Has to be worth a go eh?


Sorry, what 'abuse'?


----------



## discobastard (Feb 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Sorry, what 'abuse'?


Apologies that may have sounded like I was accusing you of something. I wasn't and it wasn't aimed directly at you. What I meant was that the campaign against Fullers has been rather robust in calling out their intentions, which might not be helpful given nobody has actually attempted to have a conversation with them. 

Does that make sense?


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## editor (Feb 19, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Apologies that may have sounded like I was accusing you of something. I wasn't and it wasn't aimed directly at you. What I meant was that the campaign against Fullers has been rather robust in calling out their intentions, which might not be helpful given nobody has actually attempted to have a conversation with them.
> 
> Does that make sense?


Perhaps you missed their statement which made their position very clear?


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## discobastard (Feb 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Perhaps you missed their statement which made their position very clear?


No I didn't miss it. I read it carefully. They said that people had been calling for a dedicated live music venue and they didn't think it was economically viable. 

That doesn't preclude an occasional/sometime live music venue that the community could very well support and help to make a reality. And I would happy to be involved, as mentioned in my earlier post. 

I hope *that* makes sense. I'm on the same side as you but that might not be obvious??


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## discobastard (Feb 19, 2016)

discobastard said:


> No I didn't miss it. I read it carefully. They said that people had been calling for a dedicated live music venue and they didn't think it was economically viable.
> 
> That doesn't preclude an occasional/sometime live music venue that the community could very well support and help to make a reality. And I would happy to be involved, as mentioned in my earlier post.
> 
> I hope *that* makes sense. I'm on the same side as you but that might not be obvious??


I posted because I wanted to understand what kind of progress had been made in taking to Fullers. There is always room for negotiation if you have something to negotiate with.

Ultimately if they refuse to do so then yeah, bunch of wankers. But we don't know that yet do we?


----------



## editor (Feb 19, 2016)

Given what's happening around the area and the increasing business focus on catering exclusively to the growing upmarket /trendy/cash-rich/'treats' market, I am feeling defeatist about this. 

That said, I'll still use whatever tiny influence I may have to fight for the Half Moon to stay as some sort of live venue.


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## discobastard (Feb 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Given what's happening around the area and the increasing business focus on catering exclusively to the growing upmarket /trendy/cash-rich/'treats' market, I am feeling defeatist about this.
> 
> That said, I'll still use whatever tiny influence I may have to fight for the Half Moon to stay as some sort of live venue.


Yeah and I'm happy to join you in that. I just suspect it won't be a dedicated gig venue - you can't just create a vibe out of nothing (and let's face it, it's a Fullers pub now, it isn't going to be the next Windmill).  

I'm happy to help in any way I can. You know about promoting gigs as much as anyone. PM me and we'll work something out.


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## Mr Retro (Feb 19, 2016)

Pubs are changing, and have to change, to accommodate the people drinking in them. We went out for a beer last night because where we went we were also able to get our dinner. If we had not been also able to eat we'd have stayed in. 

This discussion reminds me of the Canterbury. For all the grinding and gnashing of teeth at its closure by some on here, these people never actually drank there. There was a loyal group of locals who did, but not enough to make the pub viable. I might be wrong but reckon if it wasn't for the big academy nights and the parties in the back room the pub would have closed long before it did.

How many of you wanting to keep the Half Moon as a music venue would actually go regularly? 

I'd prefer if pubs remained the locals they were and people remember fondly but it's not realistic unfortunately.


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## snowy_again (Feb 19, 2016)

Um, that's all a load of bollocks!


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## snowy_again (Feb 19, 2016)

Save the Half Moon FB update on plans  
(apologies for the C&P, but I'm not sure whether it's viewable for those not on FB)

LATEST NEWS: This morning, Giles (Herne Hill Forum) and I met with the Area Manager and the Head of PR from Fuller's. I can report that the meeting was very civil, we shook hands, and we were taken inside the pub and shown Fuller's plans in more detail. I also took a couple of rather average photos, although it was rather dark inside with the boarded-up windows.

What state is the pub in? The pub's interior is badly in need of a deep clean and the inside smells rather musty. However, all its historic fixtures and fittings, including the wonderful snug bar, are intact. The big mystery, which the Fuller's themselves alluded to, is quite why it has been shut since August 2013.

What did we find out? We were shown Fuller's 'look book' for the pub, alongside the floor plans. On the plus side, there is a strong commitment by them to restore the historic fabric of the listed bars. They also said that they would try to source food supplies locally, and that this might include stocking guest beers from local brewers. On the negative side, the reality of the massive footprint of their planned new kitchen totally precludes any performance space. They also said that they did not expect to attract customers from outside a 2-mile radius, and were particularly targeting families (mums in particular) with young children as part of their business model. We pointed out that Half Moon Lane had very low footfall. Make of this what you will, but it's clear that by abandoning the Half Moon as a destination venue, then the Fuller's Half Moon will be directly targeting Herne Hill's existing customer base, including the daytime clientele of much-loved local businesses such as Cafe Provencal, the Lido Cafe, Blackbird Bakery, and Pullens.

What about the music? We were told unequivocally that Fuller's is not interested in running a music pub. We were also told that if they lost their planning application they would walk away, as they were not interested in operating the pub on a different business model. Our understanding is that gaining planning permission is also a pre-condition of them taking over the leasehold for the building. I will gloss over the fact that we were asked what we thought of them putting up pictures of acts that had performed at the pub as part of their refurbishment. Why exactly they took over the leasehold for a Half Moon brand that is based on a live music offer is a bit of a puzzle, although the area manager did state that he had been watching live music in London for a number of years and had never once come across the Half Moon.

What difference did the meeting make? I would like to take the opportunity to thank Fuller's for meeting with us and being open about their plans. The situation remains that their planning application will remove a community music and performance venue that has been at the centre of Herne Hill life for over 40 years. Fuller's did not at any point in the meeting today demonstrate any particular understanding of, or empathy with, our community's affinity for our music venue, or indeed the character of the pub beyond its listed aspects. This is not a good sign. They are an outside organisation who will run the pub along the same lines as the rest of their estate. Their plans for the pub need to be greatly improved if they are going to work for rather than against our wider community interests.

I think we all can see that Fuller's are offering a way to get the Half Moon reopened in 2016. We all want to see the pub reopened full stop. However, if we accept Fuller's current plans, then we must also accept that we will never see bands at the Half Moon again, we will never watch comedy there, we will never watch theatre, or film, or opera, or Rollapalooza cycling, or see our local children grow up and perform there, or see Stevie Smith play the blues. The pub will be open, but the things that we love and value it for will be gone.

Although we have yet to see the agenda, we have been told that the Fuller's planning application will go before Southwark Council's Planning Sub-Commitee B on 8 March at 7pm. If we can get the planning application overturned at this point, then this opens up new possibilities, including taking the pub into community ownership. It may even be the case that Fuller's has a change of heart on live music and comes back with revised plans. You should also be aware of the fact that a number of parties put forward bids to Dulwich Estate to take on the leasehold of the Half Moon, and that a number of these alternative bids were made on a pro-music basis. Our firm belief after the meeting today is that overturning the current planning application will take us forward as a community and not backward in getting the Half Moon reopened.

I would be delighted to know what everyone here thinks. We do have a very difficult few weeks ahead in preparing to oppose the planning application, and it would be great to know that we are all still united in our support for saving our great live music and performance venue for future generations of Herne Hillians.

I shall be at the Bullfinch taproom on Rosendale Road tomorrow evening for the launch of their 'Dark Side of the Moon' porter in support of our campaign. Do come and say hello. I'll bring some pin badges too!


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## editor (Feb 19, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Yeah and I'm happy to join you in that. I just suspect it won't be a dedicated gig venue - you can't just create a vibe out of nothing (and let's face it, it's a Fullers pub now, it isn't going to be the next Windmill).
> 
> I'm happy to help in any way I can. You know about promoting gigs as much as anyone. PM me and we'll work something out.


If Fullers had shown the slightest interest in keeping the pub as any kind of venue, they could have put out the feelers to local promoters, bands, managers and big agencies and seen if they wanted to get involved. But it's clear they're not interested. They're more interested in providing for the more upmarket, bigger spending market who are happy to shell out for food that's anything but cheap. And once you set a pub up with that vibe, it's really hard to make it work as a venue for anything other than a polite jazz night or folk club. Or bloody comedy.

Like I said, if there's any chance that Fullers will give it a go, I'd be happy to get involved, but I think I know what they want and the clientèle they want to attract,  and it sure as hell ain't rock and roll!

*edit: just seen snowy_again 's depressing post


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## snowy_again (Feb 19, 2016)

What's a bit less depressing is if they don't get planning Fullers will walk away from the deal.


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## editor (Feb 19, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> What's a bit less depressing is if they don't get planning Fullers will walk away from the deal.


The statement says others have expressed an interest in taking over the pub and that they are interested in keeping it focused on music.


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## sleaterkinney (Feb 19, 2016)

I'm not sure there is enough of a gig going demographic in Herne hill anyway, I can't recall the previous Half moon pulling in big crowds in the back, and there have been loads of attempts in that place beside the Commercial before the current one - a gastropub.


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## editor (Feb 19, 2016)

sleaterkinney said:


> I'm not sure there is enough of a gig going demographic in Herne hill anyway, I can't recall the previous Half moon pulling in big crowds in the back, and there have been loads of attempts in that place beside the Commercial before the current one - a gastropub.


If what's on offer is good enough, people will come. JAMM isn't exactly convenient to get to, but they have no problem pulling a crowd every week - and the Half Moon is right next to Herne Hill station


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## editor (Feb 22, 2016)

Another good example of a thriving music pub that is miles away from the nearest tube is the Ivy House is Nunhead. Co-operatively owned with great beers and an important part of the local community. The venue is similar in that it also used to be on the same rock circuit of the 70s/80s as the Half Moon.


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## DJWrongspeed (Feb 23, 2016)

editor said:


> Another good example of a thriving music pub that is miles away from the nearest tube is the Ivy House is Nunhead. Co-operatively owned with great beers and an important part of the local community. The venue is similar in that it also used to be on the same rock circuit of the 70s/80s as the Half Moon.


I think the Ivy disproves everything about London pubs though so perhaps it's not a good example. Crucially this one is owned by the Dulwich estate which makes very different. Well I hope the planning permission is rejected and someone else gets a go. Where do I object?


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## snowy_again (Feb 23, 2016)

There's a link on the fb link I posted up there ^^^ or I directly linked to it a page or so ago.


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## Crispy (Feb 23, 2016)

Objections that aren't for material planning reasons are pointless. They will be filtered out by the case officer before any decision is made.

I can't think of any reasons for objection that would actually sway the case, but would love to be proved wrong.


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## snowy_again (Feb 23, 2016)

Indeed. I asked the same thing before. 

link is here: 16/AP/0168	 |			  Full planning and Listed Building Consent for a Mixed Class A4 and C1 use; internal and external alterations and repair work to include new kitchen, plant and AC compound on the rear single storey flat roof, the provision of an external bar, mezzanine and outdoor seating, works to the rear garage; and a two storey rear extension.				  |																		 HALF MOON PH, 10 HALF MOON LANE, LONDON, SE24 9HU


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## friendofdorothy (Feb 24, 2016)

discobastard said:


> I don't think articletwo is suggesting that at all.
> 
> I think it provides some excellent balance though.  Just William also have quarter of a million in assets in the business and shops in Clapham and East Dulwich. Sure they'll be ok.


I'm not so fussed about Just William as such - but if they have walked away from HH what sort of business will come next - what sort of business can afford the new rents?


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## friendofdorothy (Feb 24, 2016)

Mr Retro said:


> Pubs are changing, and have to change, to accommodate the people drinking in them. We went out for a beer last night because where we went we were also able to get our dinner. If we had not been also able to eat we'd have stayed in.
> 
> This discussion reminds me of the Canterbury. For all the grinding and gnashing of teeth at its closure by some on here, these people never actually drank there. There was a loyal group of locals who did, but not enough to make the pub viable. I might be wrong but reckon if it wasn't for the big academy nights and the parties in the back room the pub would have closed long before it did.
> 
> ...


 There's a lot of us around here who used to drink in there regularly.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 24, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> There's a lot of us around here who used to drink in there regularly.



Yes. Even that aside the idea that a few (or even a lot) more drinkers in a pub would make the different between a pub staying open or closing completely misses the reason why so many pubs have shut. It's not because they can't cover their running costs, it's because they can't bring in the same money as the alternatives - if the Canterbury was packed out every night it still wouldn't have brought in the sort of money that can be made from building a big block of flats in central Brixton these days.


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## technical (Feb 24, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yes. Even that aside the idea that a few (or even a lot) more drinkers in a pub would make the different between a pub staying open or closing completely misses the reason why so many pubs have shut. It's not because they can't cover their running costs, it's because they can't bring in the same money as the alternatives - if the Canterbury was packed out every night it still wouldn't have brought in the sort of money that can be made from building a big block of flats in central Brixton these days.



Exactly. The Canterbury was very much a viable business, but couldn't compete with the massive one off profit to be made by selling the land for flats. Unless buildings are protected by long leases or perhaps by being listed, any business in London is vulnerable right now


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## madolesance (Feb 25, 2016)

The Half Moon is a large public house. It would need to atrack a lot of people especially at the weekend to continue as a live music venue. Take the Hoot, it has become a destination music venue for many with live music happening most evenings drawing large crowds at the weekend. Not sure that model would be tolerated in Herne Hill.


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## Mr Retro (Feb 25, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> There's a lot of us around here who used to drink in there regularly.


But more who didn't.....


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## editor (Feb 25, 2016)

madolesance said:


> The Half Moon is a large public house. It would need to atrack a lot of people especially at the weekend to continue as a live music venue. Take the Hoot, it has become a destination music venue for many with live music happening most evenings drawing large crowds at the weekend. Not sure that model would be tolerated in Herne Hill.


I don't think they're really comparable. The Hoot has a much later licence for starters, with a large 'mini festival' type outdoor area and is focused on bass heavy music that needs a mighty hefty soundsystem. Why not compare it to venues like the Ivyhouse, Railway, Windmill etc?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 25, 2016)

editor said:


> I don't think they're really comparable. The Hoot has a much later licence for starters, with a large 'mini festival' type outdoor area and is focused on bass heavy music that needs a mighty hefty soundsystem. Why not compare it to venues like the Ivyhouse, Railway, Windmill etc?



The music area is huge at the Hoot - at the Moon it's just a small back room. The music room would never be the main driver of business for the Moon (and I don't think anyone is suggesting it should be) like it is at the Hoot (and the Windmill tbf). I think the Ivy House is a good comparison - it has music as part of its overall aim to serve the community while covering its costs.


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## editor (Feb 25, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The music area is huge at the Hoot - at the Moon it's just a small back room. The music room would never be the main driver of business for the Moon (and I don't think anyone is suggesting it should be) like it is at the Hoot (and the Windmill tbf). I think the Ivy House is a good comparison - it has music as part of its overall aim to serve the community while covering its costs.


Yep, I think the Railway is a good comparison too. Their live music/DJ nights supplements their drink/food income and drives new people to the pub - and provides press they otherwise wouldn't get. It doesn't have to be banging nightclub type of place - just somewhere where bands can be accommodated a few nights of the week.


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## snowy_again (Feb 25, 2016)

And just in context - the Railway takeover of The Milkwood being based on restaurant food and supposed higher end customer service to attract a market they thought was in the area hasn't exactly been a success.


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## wurlycurly (Feb 25, 2016)

editor said:


> Given their clear statement on the subject, I suspect the most they'll be offered is the chance for an acoustic guitarist to strum quietly in the corner somewhere. For one night a week. So long as it doesn't disturb the diners. Maybe.



I know this sounds a bit curmudgeony, but I'd much prefer if the pub reopened with no provision for music. I used to often drink in the Half Moon specifically to enjoy a bit of peace and quiet. Too many London pubs are desperate to assault your senses with DJs and too-bad-to-be-true bands (this is not a dig at Offline, which I've thoroughly enjoyed many times).


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## editor (Feb 25, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> I know this sounds a bit curmudgeony, but I'd much prefer if the pub reopened with no provision for music. I used to often drink in the Half Moon specifically to enjoy a bit of peace and quiet. Too many London pubs are desperate to assault your senses with DJs and too-bad-to-be-true bands (this is not a dig at Offline, which I've thoroughly enjoyed many times).


Surely there's ample pubs in the area already providing the quiet you seek? If it opens without music, it's going to be a soulless, identikit gastropub with as much character and personality as a sleeping Cameron.


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## editor (Feb 25, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> And just in context - the Railway takeover of The Milkwood being based on restaurant food and supposed higher end customer service to attract a market they thought was in the area hasn't exactly been a success.


I thought the Milkwood was doing well? Different thing altogether to the Half Moon though as it was never a pub.


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## wurlycurly (Feb 25, 2016)

editor said:


> Surely there's ample pubs in the area already providing the quiet you seek? If it opens without music, it's going to be a soulless, identikit gastropub with as much character and personality as a sleeping Cameron.


 
I live in Herne Hill and haven't had a single pint locally since the Half Moon closed. I'll be over the moon if it reopens, with or without a music provision, although I'd much prefer the latter.


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## Rushy (Feb 25, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> I live in Herne Hill and haven't had a single pint locally since the Half Moon closed. I'll be over the moon if it reopens, with or without a music provision, although I'd much prefer the latter.


Have you tried The Bullfinch in the arches?


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## wurlycurly (Feb 25, 2016)

Rushy said:


> Have you tried The Bullfinch in the arches?


 
No lager but plenty beards. I'd rather die.


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## Rushy (Feb 25, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> No lager but plenty beards. I'd rather die.


Not so beardy as I recall. But might not be for you


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 25, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> I know this sounds a bit curmudgeony, but I'd much prefer if the pub reopened with no provision for music. I used to often drink in the Half Moon specifically to enjoy a bit of peace and quiet. Too many London pubs are desperate to assault your senses with DJs and too-bad-to-be-true bands (this is not a dig at Offline, which I've thoroughly enjoyed many times).



I don't think whether or not they have bands on in the back room has much to do with whether they play music in the main pub tbh. 

I suppose if they got Slayer in it would be quite annoying...


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## leanderman (Feb 25, 2016)

wurlycurly said:


> I know this sounds a bit curmudgeony, but I'd much prefer if the pub reopened with no provision for music. I used to often drink in the Half Moon specifically to enjoy a bit of peace and quiet. Too many London pubs are desperate to assault your senses with DJs and too-bad-to-be-true bands (this is not a dig at Offline, which I've thoroughly enjoyed many times).



If it's not the live music, it's the quiz nights or the Sky Sports!


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## choochi (Feb 26, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> And just in context - the Railway takeover of The Milkwood being based on restaurant food and supposed higher end customer service to attract a market they thought was in the area hasn't exactly been a success.



Really? It hasn't been a success? It always seems to be busy in there.


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## snowy_again (Mar 2, 2016)

^^ it's got a tiny front bar which often gives the impression of being full. Last Friday the Commercial was heaving; the Milkwood had about 13 people in. 

Anyway, letter from John Major of Dulwich Estate to the Herne Hill Society:

http://www.hernehillsociety.org.uk/hhs_pdfs/de-major-retail-rents.pdf

With more info here: Half Moon Lane - a Letter from the Dulwich Estate


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## snowy_again (Mar 2, 2016)

Which from my skim, doesn't match the version of events from the Just William owner.


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## editor (Mar 2, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Which from my skim, doesn't match the version of events from the Just William owner.


The fact that they don't name any of the "64 pub operators" they supposedly contacted about the Half Moon doesn't inspire confidence either. If they were having trouble finding someone willing to take it on as a live venue, why didn't they let that fact be known?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 2, 2016)

editor said:


> The fact that they don't name any of the "64 pub operators" they supposedly contacted about the Half Moon doesn't inspire confidence either. If they were having trouble finding someone willing to take it on as a live venue, why didn't they let that fact be known?



It's pretty clear they haven't tried isn't it. And to be entirely fair to them they're not claiming to have done there - their contention is that 7 companies expressed an interest in running the pub and none of them expressed an interest in running it as a music venue. I don't actually see any particular reason to think that isn't true, but it's not the same as saying nobody was prepared to run a music venue, just that they didn't actively propose to.


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## snowy_again (Mar 7, 2016)

So a cold but fun day on Saturday







[photo from https://twitter.com/gavinnivag] 

And the Half Moon Lane parade had more flooding on Friday:
Half Moon Lane traders flooded out again


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## friendofdorothy (Mar 7, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> So a cold but fun day on Saturday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There was a good crowd considering it was freezing (it began to sleet briefly while I was there). I was amused to watch small children running around to 'stairway to heaven' being played, really well, by some boys who looked about 10 yrs old.  Saw Jay Rayner and Jo Brand there showing their support.


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## Fingers (Apr 4, 2016)

> BREAKING NEWS: I am delighted to report that Southwark Council has upheld its decision the list the Half Moon Public House as an Asset of Community Value (ACV), dismissing the appeal against the listing by The Dulwich Estate. Our pub is and shall remain an ACV for the next 5 years!


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## friendofdorothy (Apr 4, 2016)

good news indeed! I'm really missing the moon, can't wait to have a back.


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## ska invita (Apr 4, 2016)

But isn't an Acv just something that gives a period of six months for the community to buy the pub if it were being sold? How does it affect the current dispute?


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## Fingers (Apr 5, 2016)

> BREAKING NEWS: I am disappointed to report that Southwark Council voted tonight to approve the Fuller's planning application. We did everything in our power to find a way to save the live music venue, but on advice from officers, members of the planning sub-committee appeared wary of exposing the Council to the possibility of costs on appeal.
> 
> I would like to go on record to say a personal thank you to our ward councillors Jane Lyons and Michael Mitchell, and to our local MP Helen Hayes, who went out of their way to support us today and speak on our behalf. Thank you also to everyone who turned up to offer their moral support.
> 
> We will take stock in the coming days and continue to negotiate on the best possible outcome for live performance at the Half Moon, albeit with limited options now available to us. We will continue to ask Fuller's to be mindful of the Asset of Community Value status of the Half Moon, and we did gain a minor concession in terms having no fixed furniture in the main area of the back room. Can we still hold live music and comedy in the pub? Not in the manner we were accustomed to. I am sorry that we could not achieve more.


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## friendofdorothy (Apr 5, 2016)

is that that then? 
Cant we buy it as a cummunity? no idea how to do that but is anyone thinking along those lines?


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## ska invita (Apr 5, 2016)

My understanding is that the option to buy only comes up when the venue is for sale, not on lease, as it will be to fullers.


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## editor (Apr 8, 2016)

I saw this guy play again last night - I really love his dry wit - so looked him up and the first gig that came up was at the Half Moon. Another reminder of what we've lost.


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## friendofdorothy (Apr 10, 2016)

See La Roux is speaking up too

Singer La Roux slams developers over threat to iconic music pub


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 10, 2016)

ska invita said:


> But isn't an Acv just something that gives a period of six months for the community to buy the pub if it were being sold? How does it affect the current dispute?



Repeating myself I think but yeah this is about right (someone clarified before that it also applies to very long leases but again that doesn't apply here). It's extremely toothless legislation when applied to someone like the Dulwich Estate who aren't about to be selling their holdings any time soon, it's just not what they're about. 

To be honest I'm not really sure there was ever much scope within the planning appeal either. They don't seem to deal with that level of detail really - it'll still be a pub and that's probably good enough for them.


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## organicpanda (Apr 12, 2016)

not sure if it's real or not but still quite funny - it's a list of barred people from the pub in days of old

This "barred list" from a south London pub is the best thing anyone has shared on Twitter today


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## editor (Apr 12, 2016)

organicpanda said:


> not sure if it's real or not but still quite funny - it's a list of barred people from the pub in days of old
> 
> This "barred list" from a south London pub is the best thing anyone has shared on Twitter today


That is priceless: 


> *STILL…. BARRED*
> 
> JASON
> 
> ...


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 12, 2016)

organicpanda said:


> not sure if it's real or not but still quite funny - it's a list of barred people from the pub in days of old
> 
> This "barred list" from a south London pub is the best thing anyone has shared on Twitter today



It is real, I've seen it a few years ago - it was the landlady prior to the last takeover's banned list.


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## friendofdorothy (Apr 12, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It is real, I've seen it a few years ago - it was the landlady prior to the last takeover's banned list.


I miss Lydia she was lovely. Wonder what Mickey Two Suits did to upset her, he's a lovely bloke.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 12, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> I miss Lydia she was lovely. Wonder what Mickey Two Suits did to upset her, he's a lovely bloke.



It's actually Jill's list. Fair play to Lydia though - when the pub flooded on her watch it was open the next day. Some difference eh?


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## friendofdorothy (Apr 12, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's actually Jill's list. Fair play to Lydia though - when the pub flooded on her watch it was open the next day. Some difference eh?


didn't mean to miss Jill out.


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## Fingers (Apr 12, 2016)

organicpanda said:


> not sure if it's real or not but still quite funny - it's a list of barred people from the pub in days of old
> 
> This "barred list" from a south London pub is the best thing anyone has shared on Twitter today



It is totally real.  I used to work there so seen it loads of times. Always made me laugh when I went out of the back.

Mickey Two Suits used to go a bit over the top insulting Jill after he had had one too many so got barred a few times, let back in then permanently barred.

One Armed Keith lost his arm after doing a runner from the Old Bill over some railway tracks, tripped over and landed on the live rail.

I could tell you why most of them are banned but it would take me all night.


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## T & P (Apr 12, 2016)

I'd like to see the banned list of the White Hart in Tulse Hill


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## Fingers (Apr 12, 2016)

T & P said:


> I'd like to see the banned list of the White Hart in Tulse Hill



I am going there tonight so I will ask


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## friendofdorothy (Apr 12, 2016)

Fingers said:


> I could tell you why most of them are banned but it would take me all night.


 I look forward to that night.


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## Peanut Monkey (Apr 12, 2016)

organicpanda said:


> not sure if it's real or not but still quite funny - it's a list of barred people from the pub in days of old
> 
> This "barred list" from a south London pub is the best thing anyone has shared on Twitter today



There's a fair few names on there that bring back some memories. I once got banned from the Half Moon back around 96/97. They'd forgotten about it by the time I next went in though.


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## Fingers (Apr 14, 2016)

From Peter



> LATEST NEWS: The premises licence application has now gone up outside the Half Moon. You can see the picture below. The positive news is that the pub will be licensed for live music on Fridays and Saturdays until midnight.
> 
> I also want to take the opportunity to say a few words regarding what our campaign has achieved to date. After losing the planning application to save the stage at the Half Moon, we are now in a different phase of campaigning, but we have established regular dialogue with Fuller's about the kind of community pub that we want to return to later this year.
> 
> ...



This is not a bad result


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 14, 2016)

Fingers said:


> From Peter
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a bad result



Yeah they've done good work. To be honest although it would be nice I'm not all that hung up on the live music thing but I would really like it to be an actual pub rather than another quasi-restaurant and they've done well in defending that at least. Exactly how well we'll find out I suppose but the effort has been excellent.


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## Fingers (Apr 14, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Yeah they've done good work. To be honest although it would be nice I'm not all that hung up on the live music thing but I would really like it to be an actual pub rather than another quasi-restaurant and they've done well in defending that at least. Exactly how well we'll find out I suppose but the effort has been excellent.




I think that the front bar will remain a bar and the side bar will be an eating area, much like it was before it closed.


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## snowy_again (Dec 12, 2016)

So whilst the HM website is now up and building work's going on, this strange film arrives:


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## Lizzy Mac (Dec 12, 2016)

I heard they won't be showing football.  No idea if it's true or not.


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## ska invita (Dec 12, 2016)

Lizzy Mac said:


> I heard they won't be showing football.  No idea if it's true or not.


very likely


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 12, 2016)

ska invita said:


> very likely



I know that's largely down to the ideas that they have for the pub but I wonder if Sky have finally pushed it too far as far as costs for pubs to have the football go (plus there's BT Sport as well now so another subscription for them to pay). The number of places that have it is going down quite a lot.


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## ska invita (Dec 12, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I know that's largely down to the ideas that they have for the pub but I wonder if Sky have finally pushed it too far as far as costs for pubs to have the football go (plus there's BT Sport as well now so another subscription for them to pay). The number of places that have it is going down quite a lot.


i think thats as much down to the fact that pubs have gone down the gastro/craft route, and loads of sports through the week doesn't seemingly fit with that vibe.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2016)

ska invita said:


> i think thats as much down to the fact that pubs have gone down the gastro/craft route, and loads of sports through the week doesn't seemingly fit with that vibe.


They don't want oiky football types in spoiling the foodie vibes.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Dec 12, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> So whilst the HM website is now up and building work's going on, this strange film arrives:



Took me ages to work out what I was watching there. I know its been a bit chilly of late, but is a balaclava really necessary.  

Not sure about letting Fat Paul, one armed Keith or Ms Tant back in though.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 17, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I know that's largely down to the ideas that they have for the pub but I wonder if Sky have finally pushed it too far as far as costs for pubs to have the football go (plus there's BT Sport as well now so another subscription for them to pay). The number of places that have it is going down quite a lot.


£15,000 per year for a pub subscription to Sky TV


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 17, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> So whilst the HM website is now up and building work's going on, this strange film arrives:



None of those people will be banned from the new pub, the new management won't have a clue who they are. I will personally invite one armed Keith for a pint when it's opened, but I can imagine he wouldn't want to stay long if it's gone proper gastro.


----------



## editor (Feb 21, 2017)

It's reopening on the 20th March and going for the yummy mummy mob and foodies with a boutique hotel above. 








Half Moon in Herne Hill set for March 20th reopening – but there’s no more live music


----------



## friendofdorothy (Feb 26, 2017)

I'm looking forward to seeing the old regulars again in there


----------



## T & P (Feb 26, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing the old regulars again in there


I wonder if those people featured in the infamous 'banned' list will be given a clean slate...


----------



## friendofdorothy (Feb 26, 2017)

T & P said:


> I wonder if those people featured in the infamous 'banned' list will be given a clean slate...


well apart from one-armed-Keith, who is easy to spot, how could they possible know who they were? shh! don't tell them who they are.


----------



## T & P (Feb 26, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> well apart from one-armed-Keith, who is easy to spot, how could they possible know who they were? shh! don't tell them who they are.


I guess Mickey'd best ensure he always wears the same suit when he visits the place.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 26, 2017)

Looking forward to the pub opening again. The area really misses it.

I'm not too bothered about the lack of live music, the pub is the most important thing - somewhere for us to drink.

In my opinion I think it's a bit of a myth about the live music. Yeah, there's been gigs there over the years, but for most of the time I've been drinking there (mid 90s to present) the back room has hosted DJ nights with very few punters - and where there's been gigs it's been tribute bands like The Australian Doors or similar. More recently I remember Eddie Izzard doing a gig there which was pretty popular. Perhaps it's a shame if they lose the option of having a band on and staying open til 1 or 2am, but at the end of the day, just give me the fukcing pub back 

I'm resigned to the fact it's gonna be a bit gastro/chain pub. And I'll miss the football, if that's the case. But I'm gonna do my best to dirrty it up, like I'm sure others will do too


----------



## friendofdorothy (Feb 26, 2017)

T & P said:


> I guess Mickey'd best ensure he always wears the same suit when he visits the place.


I've never even seen him wear a suit, so he should be ok.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Feb 26, 2017)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I'm resigned to the fact it's gonna be a bit gastro/chain pub. And I'll miss the football, if that's the case. But I'm gonna do my best to dirrty it up, like I'm sure others will do too


No football?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 26, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> No football?


I don't know tbh but I think someone earlier up the thread said they hadn't committed to having any sport - I seem to remember them being a bit ambivalent when asked about it on twitter.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Feb 26, 2017)

This is the Half Moon I remember:





Though I did notice this on their twitter:


----------



## snowy_again (Feb 27, 2017)

They've been keen to point out on twitter that the lower photo is of the back rooms (what was the function room, and is now restaurant etc.); and that the bars haven't changed.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Mar 10, 2017)

"Dry run" evening tonight and I've just been in for a few beers. Pretty well oiled. Report coming shortly!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Mar 11, 2017)

The pub said on twitter they were having a "dry run" so I asked if I could come and they said yes. About 50 other local residents did the same. I turned up at 5pm and was the first one there, GET IN 

(Ms Hatter almost convinced me that 'dry run' meant there would be no alcohol and just a tour of the revamped building, but she was wrong and no one paid for a drink all night, so fairplay to Fullers.)

Basically the building looks amazing, the front & side bar are pretty much the same as before, but the back has been radically transformed, with the music room turned into a fairly standard gastro-restaurant and the back yard/car park turned into a huge paved garden with outside bar. It's fairly smart, a bit clean & sterile for my taste, but fairplay the builders have done a good job. I reckon they've spent £millions on this.

As you know Half Moon is a beautiful building and the much of the interior is listed - the front bar and side bar look amazing: all the original stained and etched glass is there, clocks & original features retained, wood panelling around the bar has been restored and looks as good as new, the marble-effect red bar is still the same. It looks better than it's ever looked in 20 years imo. My only gripe is the snug bar doesn't have a carpet on the floor (which in my opinion is pure fascism - all decent pubs should have at least a bit of carpet on the floor to keep moaning cunts like me happy 

So the building is beautiful, as we know. As a pub? Well......we'll see. 6 real ales on hand pump, lots of local beers (Canopy, Peckham etc) plus all your standard hipster beers and lagers. Poor cider selection. £3.85 for your session beers, couldn't see prices but other pints I reckon £4 plus. £12 ish for meals. Will defo attract the moneyed peeps of Herne Hill. Tonight was a mix of old locals and well-dressed people who work for Fullers. Everyone friendly. It'll never be the old Half Moon (no sports, no pool table, probably a bit 'clean' now) but defo enough to be worth a few pints with your mates on a sunny day. They have the infamous 'banned' list framed behind the bar, but it's not on the wall (yet?) Staff were great and really keen to get to know everyone.

It's not necessarily what everyone wanted but it's alright, and when I first stood at the bar with a beer in my hand, I was grinning like a Cheshire cat, cos it felt like the old days.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 11, 2017)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The pub said on twitter they were having a "dry run" so I asked if I could come and they said yes. About 50 other local residents did the same. I turned up at 5pm and was the first one there, GET IN
> 
> (Ms Hatter almost convinced me that 'dry run' meant there would be no alcohol and just a tour of the revamped building, but she was wrong and no one paid for a drink all night, so fairplay to Fullers.)
> 
> ...


bugger - why wasn't I invited?  hummph.


----------



## editor (Mar 11, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> bugger - why wasn't I invited?  hummph.


Innit?


----------



## 19sixtysix (Mar 14, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> bugger - why wasn't I invited?  hummph.





editor said:


> Innit?



Just matching your descriptions to the list


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 14, 2017)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The pub said on twitter they were having a "dry run" so I asked if I could come and they said yes. About 50 other local residents did the same. I turned up at 5pm and was the first one there, GET IN
> 
> (Ms Hatter almost convinced me that 'dry run' meant there would be no alcohol and just a tour of the revamped building, but she was wrong and no one paid for a drink all night, so fairplay to Fullers.)
> 
> ...



Sounds about what you'd expect really. Like you say it was never going back to what it was. 

At least it's still a pub - I'll be in there soon I'm sure.


----------



## T & P (Mar 14, 2017)

The outside space looks interesting.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 22, 2017)

Just popped my head in. The space is huge now with the garden and 'the workshop' out the back. It's all very tasteful, the features are still there. It's nice, it's full of the well off crowd and there's nothing to mark it out from anywhere else. 

It's what I expected and I'm glad it's open in some form but I feel a little sad tbh.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 22, 2017)

Unfortunately there is no gobackintimeatron. No return to the days of sticky carpets or 1.30am drinking. 

To see all the lights on at long last gladdened my heart. Its lovely to have another pub to go to.


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2017)

There's a video of the pub in the Standard 

Campaigners ask Fuller's to rebuild stage at Half Moon live music pub


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2017)

The amps and drum kits have gone: now the place is ready for the corporate private hire market:
The Half Moon - Book Conference, Function & Private Event Rooms in Herne Hill


----------



## Crispy (Mar 23, 2017)

Popped in for a couple last night and it was _really _busy. The other pubs of Herne Hill are going to suffer (or the suppressed demand has been gigantic).

Bumbling and slow service, which I am sure will be baptised by fire come the weekend. No crisps. *No crisps.* (They're on the way)

Brightly lit, fantastic building. Not what it was.
But better this than flats.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 23, 2017)

Crispy said:


> Popped in for a couple last night and it was _really _busy. The other pubs of Herne Hill are going to suffer (or the suppressed demand has been gigantic).
> 
> Bumbling and slow service, which I am sure will be baptised by fire come the weekend. No crisps. *No crisps.* (They're on the way)
> 
> ...


not sure if other pubs will suffer - the place seems to be packed with people just taking a peek to see what its like or people never seen in a Herne Hill pub before. 

Popped in for a pint this lunch time as the Regent was shut. Huge number of people in there eating the full price menu - much the same as the evening menu £11 - £26 for a main course but with sandwiches £7 flatbread - £10 for club.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 23, 2017)

no beer price list displayed, not that I could see and I did ask. Is that legal?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 23, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> no beer price list displayed, not that I could see and I did ask. Is that legal?


It has to be displayed, but it'll just be hidden well.


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2017)

What kind of prices are the beers/lagers?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 23, 2017)

editor said:


> What kind of prices are the beers/lagers?


£4.40 for a London Pride, if memory serves. Don't quote me.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 23, 2017)

editor said:


> What kind of prices are the beers/lagers?


£3.86 for one of the ales but each ale slightly different price. I though the pride was shit when I tried it on sat - tasted like one of those creamflow pints. ESB not available sat or today. No idea about lagers.

Next time I'll make a point of asking how much is this one? and this one? and this one? etc. Then order a gin.


----------



## Rushy (Mar 23, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> not sure if other pubs will suffer - the place seems to be packed with people just taking a peek to see what its like or people never seen in a Herne Hill pub before.
> 
> Popped in for a pint this lunch time as the Regent was shut. Huge number of people in there eating the full price menu - much the same as the evening menu £11 - £26 for a main course but with sandwiches £7 flatbread - £10 for club.


That'll be why the owner of The Regent was in there then (pretty sure it was him). Must have just missed you. I left about an hour ago. It was busy for a lunchtime in Herne Hill but chilled. 

I think they've done a fantastic job. It's really quite a beautiful space. And a array of beers. Good mix of folk coming and going from builders, to people working on laptops, to mum's with prams.

Not convinced by the corrugated iron shacks out back. I like the aesthetic but doesn't quite fit in. Feels a bit too on trend.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Mar 25, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> bugger - why wasn't I invited?  hummph.


They sent out a tweet saying there was a 'dry run' for local residents and to email them if you wanted to go. I assumed it would be oversubscribed but i got an email straight back saying come and bring a plus 1*. I was gonna post it on here but i totally forgot cos i'm a muppet, apols, my bad  


 *I actually managed to 'smuggle' little hatter in as well as ms hatter, they were pretty laidback.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 25, 2017)

Brixton Hatter said:


> They sent out a tweet saying there was a 'dry run' for local residents and to email them if you wanted to go. I assumed it would be oversubscribed but i got an email straight back saying come and bring a plus 1*. I was gonna post it on here but i totally forgot cos i'm a muppet, apols, my bad
> 
> 
> *I actually managed to 'smuggle' little hatter in as well as ms hatter, they were pretty laidback.


thats the problem with not using twitter.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Mar 25, 2017)

I was in there again on Thursday night - really busy again. Nice vibe, reasonably mixed crowd (for Herne Hill) I guess, and all ages from 18 to 70. But we literally didn't recognise anyone from any other pubs in Herne Hill, or any other locals. Massive suppressed demand I reckon: people who live nearby who probably don't go to the pub much but want to check out the new place. Lots of restaurant customers - that's clearly where they're aiming to make their money back.

We also got chucked out at the end of the evening in the nicest, most polite way possible. We got a 10 min warning for last orders, then every 5 mins the staff came over to say, "Sir, just to let you know, we're closing in 20/15/10/5 minutes, hope you've had a great evening..." etc etc, it was quite funny, bless.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Mar 25, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> thats the problem with not using twitter.


don't worry, you're not missing much (unless you like endless arguments about Trump and people moaning about being in queues etc.)


----------



## snowy_again (Mar 25, 2017)

The Dulwich Estate regs means the back garden has to close at 10.30 which will be a challenge come summer. 

The other locals were heaving today, so there seems to be enough demand. 

It's biggest threat might be the dog reopening.


----------



## Fingers (Mar 27, 2017)

Went down yesterday (twice). It looks amazing but meh. Maybe it will grow on me when it has quietened down a bit.   All the old regulars were in the Commercial. Nice to have a new beer garden though and with the high wooden fences at the front beer garden makes it less like you are drinking next to a busy road.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 27, 2017)

Brixton Hatter said:


> don't worry, you're not missing much (unless you like endless arguments about Trump and people moaning about being in queues etc.)


if only people would tell me about the free beer tweets that would be fine


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 27, 2017)

Fingers said:


> Went down yesterday (twice). It looks amazing but meh. Maybe it will grow on me when it has quietened down a bit.   All the old regulars were in the Commercial. Nice to have a new beer garden though and with the high wooden fences at the front beer garden makes it less like you are drinking next to a busy road.


can we coordinate an old regulars meet up in there soon please


----------



## Fingers (Mar 27, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> can we coordinate an old regulars meet up in there soon please



Yes deffo


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

I want to take a look ASAP. Maybe I'll stroll up on Wednesday night.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Mar 29, 2017)

Done a great job on the place. 

Staff are attentive.

Not cheap (but I never expected it to be)

Atmosphere is ok....real mix of folk in here....lots of toddlers and babies even at this time of day.

I'll pop in now and again.


----------



## snowy_again (Apr 1, 2017)

I went back. It's shit.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 3, 2017)

Popped into the Half Moon Saturday. It was packed with kids, and pushchairs, and really wasn't that enjoyable. 

I'm sure they are making lots of money though.


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2017)

It's a far cry from the rock bands of the past: 



> *Friday 6th October, SE24
> Catch Me A Song Cabaret at The Half Moon
> 10 Half Moon Lane, SE24 9HU, 7pm, £45*
> It’s great to see this legendary pub open again and putting on live music, but the upwardly mobile change in direction is reflected by the eye-watering £45 charge for a night of cabaret with a three course meal included.  The Catch Me A Song cabaret is made up of West End performers belting out big tunes from the world of Jazz Swing, Musical Theatre, Motown, Soul and Classical.
> [Brixton Buzz]


----------



## twistedAM (Oct 7, 2017)

editor said:


> It's a far cry from the rock bands of the past:



The Alma in Crystal Palace now does this too -  I don't think its a meal deal but still expensive.


----------



## Sue (Oct 7, 2017)

Went in there for a drink recently -- was the local for years of friends who live nearby. Three pints cost £16.10. Times have certainly changed.


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2017)

Sue said:


> Went in there for a drink recently -- was the local for years of friends who live nearby. Three pints cost £16.10. Times have certainly changed.


Wow. That is a rip. I'll be giving the place a miss, then.


----------



## Mr Retro (Oct 7, 2017)

Sue said:


> Went in there for a drink recently -- was the local for years of friends who live nearby. Three pints cost £16.10. Times have certainly changed.


What were the 3 pints?


----------



## Sue (Oct 7, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> What were the 3 pints?


One cider, two bitter. Can't remember what exactly but nothing specially unusual or interesting.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 8, 2017)

2 pints of Island Record IPA: £12.10 
And I had to ask for it to be topped up!


----------



## TopCat (Oct 9, 2017)

Fuck that shit


----------



## twistedAM (Oct 9, 2017)

Rushy said:


> 2 pints of Island Record IPA: £12.10
> And I had to ask for it to be topped up!



Wow, I looked that up and its only 4.5%. I was expecting a 6+ at that price.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2017)

twistedAM said:


> Wow, I looked that up and its only 4.5%. I was expecting a 6+ at that price.


I'd expect it to come in a cut glass goblet at that price. I can't enjoy a drink when I'm being ripped off so I won't be paying a visit to the place any time soon.


----------



## sealion (Oct 9, 2017)

Rushy said:


> 2 pints of Island Record IPA: £12.10
> And I had to ask for it to be topped up!


That's an expensive evening if there's a few of you in a round and can put it away.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 9, 2017)

They don't have a bar price list - or didn't when I've asked. They only a have drinks menu with price of wines/ some bottles - no prices for any draught stuff. I'm sure that is illegal. And most staff don't know the price of the ales either. 

If I go in there now I routinely ask - how much is this one, and this one, and this and this one? or as I did recently - 'which is your cheapest ale?' he had to check on the till -  it was £4 for the Seafarer.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 9, 2017)

twistedAM said:


> Wow, I looked that up and its only 4.5%. I was expecting a 6+ at that price.


I didn't mention that it's labeled as a session ale. When did almost export strength become session ale? 

I'm such a lightweight these days that if I'm checking the abv it's only to make sure that I'll manage more than one pint!


----------



## twistedAM (Oct 9, 2017)

Rushy said:


> I didn't mention that it's labeled as a session ale. When did almost export strength become session ale?
> 
> I'm such a lightweight these days that if I'm checking the abv it's only to make sure that I'll manage more than one pint!



Yeah I go for red or golden ales quite a to as they are weak and when I want IPA I check %; some of them are over 6%.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Oct 10, 2017)

Pricey is my experience too. Last time I was there we headed to Canopy after 1pint.


----------



## Winot (Oct 10, 2017)

twistedAM said:


> Yeah I go for red or golden ales quite a to as they are weak and when I want IPA I check %; some of them are over 6%.



This is why we need to forget about all this craft beer nonsense and get back to proper British bitter at 4% max. 

I learnt this week that the phrase “1 over the 8” comes from the idea that your average drinker should be able to manage 8 pints. Not at 6% they can’t.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 10, 2017)

Winot said:


> This is why we need to forget about all this craft beer nonsense and get back to proper British bitter at 4% max.
> 
> I learnt this week that the phrase “1 over the 8” comes from the idea that your average drinker should be able to manage 8 pints. Not at 6% they can’t.


What exactly do you think they mean by "manage"?


----------



## Winot (Oct 10, 2017)

Rushy said:


> What exactly do you think they mean by "manage"?



Probably means that you end up being as competent at basic tasks as your average manager.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 10, 2017)

session beer should be about 3% in my opinion. I think they are misusing the word session here


----------



## Winot (Oct 10, 2017)

friendofdorothy said:


> session beer should be about 3% in my opinion. I think they are misusing the word session here



Ideally, but very hard to get it that low. Kernel Table Beer is the closest I’ve found.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 10, 2017)

yes its very hard to find anything other than stronger, overpriced IPA/ pale ale/ golden ales these days.

I'm a (very) bitter woman.


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2017)

Winot said:


> This is why we need to forget about all this craft beer nonsense and get back to proper British bitter at 4% max.
> 
> I learnt this week that the phrase “1 over the 8” comes from the idea that your average drinker should be able to manage 8 pints. Not at 6% they can’t.


If I'm DJing I need to get on the session beers because over a 4-5 hour session I can get through a lot of the stuff, even if I'm drinking slowly. 

Most of the venues I play at don't have decent beer, so I go for 'session' strength over taste and wolf down Amstel/Carling (which is actually only 3.7% according to this) or Fosters.  I know the purists will disapprove but I REALLY appreciate the difference next day.


----------



## T & P (Oct 10, 2017)

I'm all for low/medium strength beers being available everywhere. It allows one the option to have a beer safe in the knowledge they can go on and drive both safely and legally.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2018)

Such a shame there's fuck all regular live music happening there now. Their events page only has one solitary item listed, and that's for a performance of Shakespeare in the garden for over £17 in August.


----------



## Rushy (May 22, 2018)

I like the fact that the pubs are pretty straight forward pubs in Herne Hill, especially on the weekend. It's nice and relaxed. Live music at off the cuff when you fancy. And Brixton, where most pubs are now packed venues of some sort, is 5 minutes away. 

There was a performance of Under Milkwood for Dylan Day in the Half Moon last week (which I missed, unfortunately).


----------



## snowy_again (May 22, 2018)

They do twee jazz in the shed in the garden too - free as far as I remember.  Shame it's still badly managed.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> They do twee jazz in the shed in the garden too - free as far as I remember.  Shame it's still badly managed.


It seems finely tuned for the middle class clientele/yummy mummies that they seem to want to attract. Shame. It used to be a good pub and a valuable place for local musicians to play and watch up and coming bands.

I'm pretty much over twee jazz as it's bloody everywhere. Still, you'd think they'd at least bother to advertise it.


----------



## snowy_again (May 22, 2018)

Well it was hardly a decent music venue in the last 15 years until the penultimate landlord started putting nights on again in the back room - and then the Herne Hill floods happened. I'd put on some events there - and was never made that welcome despite their bar % deal which they did very well on! It has a pedigree though, i'll give you that.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> Well it was hardly a decent music venue in the last 15 years until the penultimate landlord started putting nights on again in the back room - and then the Herne Hill floods happened. I'd put on some events there - and was never made that welcome despite their bar % deal which they did very well on! It has a pedigree though, i'll give you that.


It's a bit frustrating as the place still seemed to have a fair bit of potential as a decent live venue - even if they'd scaled it back a bit. That said, the staff and security were really fucking rude when I played there last.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 23, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> They do twee jazz in the shed in the garden too - free as far as I remember.  Shame it's still badly managed.


twee jazz, when does that happen? I thought the garden shed was the creche.


----------



## editor (May 25, 2018)

Anyone know who is running this twitter account? He seems very keen to suggest he's representing lots of people (and the campaign) but goes all coy when people ask for details....


----------



## snowy_again (May 25, 2018)

That reads like Peter who runs the Save FB page, but multiple people seem to post from it.


----------



## alex_ (May 25, 2018)

editor said:


> Anyone know who is running this twitter account? He seems very keen to suggest he's representing lots of people (and the campaign) but goes all coy when people ask for details....



More likely that as a local “influencer” he has cheap vip and a load of free drinks tokens.

Alex


----------



## editor (May 25, 2018)

snowy_again said:


> That reads like Peter who runs the Save FB page, but multiple people seem to post from it.


It's a real shame that he's using that campaign group to forward his own personal agenda, and giving the impression that he is speaking for all those who were involved in saving the Half Moon.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 25, 2018)

editor said:


> It's a real shame that he's using that campaign group to forward his own personal agenda, and giving the impression that he is speaking for all those who were involved in saving the Half Moon.



Yes to be honest I've found that group starting to get a little annoying on Facebook. It's gone past it's remit really hasn't it. 

Obviously I should get around to leaving it!


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2018)

From nightly rock gigs to a £50 a head 'West End Cabaret & Dinner' night...

The Half Moon - Fuller's Pub and Restaurant London


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2019)

Looks like this is going ahead with talking to any of the people involved



> *Still Barred*
> By John Mitchinson (editor)
> 
> Stories inspired by the notorious barred list from the Half Moon in Herne Hill





> _This London pub's "banned" list is like a list of the drunk Avengers._ - GQ
> 
> _You need to read this in full, slowly, it’s like reading the cast list for the most British gangster movie ever made. Imagine each character as you go. Play the movie in your head._ - The Poke
> 
> ...


Still Barred


----------



## blameless77 (Oct 30, 2019)

editor said:


> Looks like this is going ahead with talking to any of the people involved
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Update: apparently not.


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Oct 30, 2019)

I have barred myself from the Half Moon on account it being owned by Fullers and the cheapest pint of lager will therefore be about £5.20.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Oct 31, 2019)

editor said:


> Looks like this is going ahead with talking to any of the people involved
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that must be a piss take? 

I pop in there occasionally for a change, thought obvisously its not the same as it was, its all very Dulwich in there now.  All the pubs round here are expensive anyway. 

I know loads of the people on the barred list, but don't think any of them drink there now.


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