# iPhone X



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

Okay so details released for the next iPhone. 

All the reviewers are saying nice things and repeating the Apple line that it's the phone of the future. The next big leap. 

I'm a fan of Apple. I'm typing this on an iPhone but...

I just don't get how this is a leap. 
Facial recognition unlock. Didn't we already have this years ago? 
It was shit too as you could fool it by showing a phone a pic of the person and it would accept it. Even a pic on the screen of another phone. 

An emoji gimmick that will soon get boring. 

Is that it?

Some leap!!


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Worse specs than the Samsung Galaxy S8 and costs around £350 more at £999, and doesn't look anywhere as nice as the Edge. Almost all the 'new' features are just catch up with Android from years ago. They're having a fucking laugh but - hey! - fanboys get queuing.



> The iPhone X starts at $999/£999/AU$1,579 for the 64GB model and will also be available in a 256GB size for $1,149/£1,149/AU$1,829.
> 
> That’s a lot of money. Even more in fact than the Samsung Galaxy S8, which costs $725/£639/AU$1,199, though can be found for less if you shop around.



iPhone X vs Samsung Galaxy S8: Apple's new hero against this year's best phone | TechRadar


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 13, 2017)

£1149 for the 256GB apparently 

It's a no from me


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> £1149 for the 256GB
> 
> It's a no from me


Wouldn't be so bad if you could add a microSD card but Apple want to make sure they sting you for as much cash as possible.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 13, 2017)

From Guardian report on the launch 



> Before the product announcements, there was a lengthy section of the keynote dedicated to Apple’s retail strategy, in which the company’s head of retail Angela Ahrendts said the company no longer refers to its shops as “stores” but “town squares”. This, she said, was because they host so many events and training sessions that they have become “gathering places”


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> From Guardian report on the launch



"Church" would've been more appropriate.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 13, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> "Church" would've been more appropriate.


You're not wrong. Founded by L Ron Jobs


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> £1149 for the 256GB apparently
> 
> It's a no from me


I will be closely monitoring urban for anyone who admits to shelling out for this overpriced monstrosity & subsequently cross referencing every post they make to find any evidence of them moaning about the cost of living, high rents, rising prices, etc.

If you fork out over a grand for a fucking _phone_ you lose the right to ever whinge about the cost of anything ever again.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 13, 2017)

How Apple's Face ID works - CNET

Apparently it's better


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2017)

It's a lovely looking thing, with an insane price. But all new generation Apple kit is like this, who cares.

The camera looks amazing and will almost certainly be the best there is, until someone else leapfrogs them again.

Not convinced at all by face unlocking. The fingerprint sensor on my 6s is as fast and far more convenient - it's unlocked by the time I've got it out my pocket, having to lift the phone to my face would take more time, not less. And it has huge security implications - what if the police want access? All they would have to do is hold it up to a suspects face.

Animated emoji. Fuck off, I'm an adult. The tech behind it though is cool and will presumably be used for better stuff by developers.

Glass back. Fail.

Wireless charging. Meh. I'll be interested when there's a universal standard, time will tell if what they mentioned at the end of the presentation ever happens.

Saying it has a worse spec than a Samsung misses the point. It's how the OS uses what it has.


The problem I have is that, better camera aside, I have zero reason to upgrade from a 6s. It' pretty much perfect as it is.


----------



## Winot (Sep 13, 2017)

I'm in the market for a new iPhone but will be getting the 8 rather than the X. 

Prosaic reason? I drop mine all the time and need a bumper case. Can't see the point in getting screen to edge and then sticking a case round it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 13, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The camera looks amazing and will almost certainly be the best there is, until
> The problem I have is that, better camera aside, I have zero reason to upgrade from a 6s. It' pretty much perfect as it is.



This is a good thing though I think. Smart phones do what we need, we don't all need to be upgrading every few years.

I can't actually think of many features left that I still need and those I would like are in apps, such as a better system to pay inderviduals. Well better battery life of course, but we've been asking for that forever.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Facial recognition unlock. Didn't we already have this years ago?
> It was shit too as you could fool it by showing a phone a pic of the person and it would accept it. Even a pic on the screen of another phone.


This won't happen on the iPhone. It uses depth recognition, so a photo will fail the test (assuming it works as advertised).


Gromit said:


> An emoji gimmick that will soon get boring.


That will, but bees is right in that it's basically a tech demo for devs. It will be used in different ways (your own head as the character in a game...3D chat rooms/dating apps...who knows?)


editor said:


> Almost all the 'new' features are just catch up with Android from years ago.


Nothing is new any more. Nobody should be surprised at this. One thing Apple do do well (or used to) is to make sure everything works perfectly. The Motorola Atrix had the first fingerprint scanner on a phone. It worked but was awkward. The iPhone's one was slick, and came years after.


beesonthewhatnow said:


> Glass back. Fail.


Glass back phones are my pet hate. Can't imagine how many people are going to break this £1k phone 


beesonthewhatnow said:


> Wireless charging. Meh. I'll be interested when there's a universal standard, time will tell if what they mentioned at the end of the presentation ever happens.


They actually used a universal standard. They're using Qi charging which is in all Samsung flagship phones and was on the Nexus 4 and some other early Android phones. This is great news!


beesonthewhatnow said:


> Saying it has a worse spec than a Samsung misses the point. It's how the OS uses what it has.


100% this. Check the benchmarks for this phone...it absolutely destroys the S8.

Despite my defending Apple a bit in the above, I would never buy this phone in a million years. £1k is beyond ridiculous for a phone. It's too big. The black bar holding the camera actually blocks content on the screen, including gaming controls and video sections. Jobs would never have allowed that 

But mostly I don't get the Appeal of iPhones any more. I used to. I'd see my friends with them and their fast, good quality cameras, and the way everything just seemed perfectly designed, if limited in features. But after using an iPhone for the past two weeks, I don't know how anyone can use iOS. It's actually awful. The design used to seem slick and clean and intuitive, but coming back to Android it felt like a breath of fresh air. The lack of a back button is very annoying. Things like going back a page on Safari - this should be a piece of pisss, but I had to scroll the page up a few times to get the nav bar to appear, and only _then _could I browse backwards.

And apps - they felt like they had no consistency. This was always the biggest flaw with Android, that apps looked shite and behaved weirdly. But with Material design and the guidelines, you now have a good understanding on how 99.9% of apps will behave before you've ever used them. iOS needs a huge overhaul I reckon. It's so lacking, and the way they're trying to play catchup without the big overhaul means everything feels so messy.

Price - nope
iOS - nope
Design - nope
The underlying tech - yep, but you can almost get this elsewhere on Android for a lot less and without _some _of the above problems. The bits where iPhone wins will be copied by Samsung / Xioami / etc. soon enough, wiping out the only advantage Apple has.

Fail phone.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> I will be closely monitoring urban for anyone who admits to shelling out for this overpriced monstrosity & subsequently cross referencing every post they make to find any evidence of them moaning about the cost of living, high rents, rising prices, etc.
> 
> If you fork out over a grand for a fucking _phone_ you lose the right to ever whinge about the cost of anything ever again.



Better start editing my posts! 

EDIT: actually no, I look forward to you spending the time cross referencing 

The main reason for me, is the camera. I'd get the 8Plus, but fuck it, for £200 extra I may as well get the singing and dnacing one, it will take me an extra month, maybe two, to pay if off on an interest free credit card! fuck it.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

Actually the black bar doesn't block content. Content doesn't get shown that high up the screen. Yes that right. When showing content the phone doesn't use the entire geography of the screen.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Better start editing my posts!
> 
> EDIT: actually no, I look forward to you spending the time cross referencing
> 
> The main reason for me, is the camera. I'd get the 8Plus, but fuck it, for £200 extra I may as well get the singing and dnacing one, it will take me an extra month to pay if off on an interest free credit card! fuck it.


Add's cybershot to the plutocrat watchlist...


----------



## Lambert Simnel (Sep 13, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Things like going back a page on Safari - this should be a piece of pisss, but I had to scroll the page up a few times to get the nav bar to appear, and only _then _could I browse backwards.



Swipe the screen left and right to go forward and back while browsing mate, the number of people I've had to show this to is ridiculous.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Add's cybershot to the plutocrat watchlist...



As long as I can still moan about my bins not being collected, I think we'll be fine. Birmingham Bin Strike news and discussion


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Actually the black bar doesn't block content. Content doesn't get shown that high up the screen. Yes that right. When showing content the phone doesn't use the entire geography of the screen.



Just been on the website, that game they showed, and all photos, use the full thing apart from the annoying sensor tab.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> Just been on the website, that game they showed, and all photos, use the full thing apart from the annoying sensor tab.


Eh?! Am I thinking of another phone with a bar then?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

Lambert Simnel said:


> Swipe the screen left and right to go forward and back while browsing mate, the number of people I've had to show this to is ridiculous.



If people learnt the iOS shortcuts and gestures, they would find it a lot easier to use, but most don't, myself included! Half of the gesture controls are not intuitive enough, and I struggle to even remember them.

To be fair, while I'm prepared to drop the money on this phone, I expect it to last me 4 years. My current iPhone 6 is 3 years old, but the battery has took a hit, this is purely down to the way I use the phone, and will not be repeating the same process with the X, I'll give the 6 to my Mum (who gets all my phone downgrades) and take the older 5s back and use that in the car as my satnav/bluetooth audio device.

Another point why I choose iOS over Android is simply the fact it gets updated longer than 3 years. 2 years (from launch date) of OS updates on vanilla phones, and on the 3rd year just security updates is pretty shite imo from Google. Other vendors you're left at their mercy, I don't have the time to fuck about with custom roms.

5s will get iOS 11, which is 4 years old this year, as will my iPad Air 1, which is even older. So I can't knock them for that.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Actually the black bar doesn't block content. Content doesn't get shown that high up the screen. Yes that right. When showing content the phone doesn't use the entire geography of the screen.


Nope.







With games, that can be a button that's hidden. Absolute fail.


Lambert Simnel said:


> Swipe the screen left and right to go forward and back while browsing mate, the number of people I've had to show this to is ridiculous.


 Wish the iPhone was launched two weeks ago so I could've learned this info when it was still relevant


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> If people learnt the iOS shortcuts and gestures, they would find it a lot easier to use, but most don't, myself included! Half of the gesture controls are not intuitive enough, and I struggle to even remember them.
> 
> To be fair, while I'm prepared to drop the money on this phone, I expect it to last me 4 years. My current iPhone 6 is 3 years old, but the battery has took a hit, this is purely down to the way I use the phone, and will not be repeating the same process with the X, I'll give the 6 to my Mum (who gets all my phone downgrades) and take the older 5s back and use that in the car as my satnav/bluetooth audio device.
> 
> ...


That is the IOS advantage. I remember Android releasing an update and it took 8.7 years for HTC to roll it out to my phone (I may exaggerate slightly but it felt like it) and even then I got hold of their update via a third party source because they didn't send it to my phone right away. They did a staggered update across users.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> As long as I can still moan about my bins not being collected, I think we'll be fine. Birmingham Bin Strike news and discussion


But who will collect your discarded but perfectly good old phone?!


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Another point why I choose iOS over Android is simply the fact it gets updated longer than 3 years. 2 years (from launch date) of OS updates on vanilla phones, and on the 3rd year just security updates is pretty shite imo from Google. Other vendors you're left at their mercy, I don't have the time to fuck about with custom roms.
> 
> 5s will get iOS 11, which is 4 years old this year, as will my iPad Air 1, which is even older. So I can't knock them for that.


This is a good point.

It was complicated in the past by phones advancing so much that even though older phones got the updates, they were too slow to run it, or the updates were so large, you had no space left on your phone. But with 64GB storage and ridiculous processors etc, we're now at the state where this isn't as much of a problem.

The problem now is the hardware literally wearing out - like you said, battery. If you have a 3yo phone, you aren't gonna get much charge time out of the thing. So that's enough of a reason to upgrade your phone, meaning Google's 3 year time frame isn't so much a problem anymore. Especially with the work they've done on Google Play Services.

I don't know if you're aware of GPS, but it was Google's response to manufacturers not pushing out updates for Android once a phone has been released. In the past you only got Gmail, YouTube, Play Store etc updates with the new version of Android. Now, all of these have been extracted into a framework that can be updated independently of the OS. There's hardly anything you can do in the new Android that you can't in the old. A few optimisations in the background, maybe a new power saving mode, and usually a visual refresh. But on the whole, _it doesn't matter anymore. 
_
They've essentially turned Android into a permanently updating OS, except visually. And of course you can replace most of the visual stuff in Android, too, should you wish.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

Gromit said:


> That is the IOS advantage. I remember Android releasing an update and it took 8.7 years for HTC to roll it out to my phone (I may exaggerate slightly but it felt like it) and even then I got hold of their update via a third party source because they didn't send it to my phone right away. They did a staggered update across users.


See above. No longer an issue anymore. But you're right, it used to be.

I actually had the phone that holds the record for the longest gap between updates. I forget its name but it was the first dual core phone. It was due to these examples (like yours) that Google stripped everything out and made OS updates almost irrelevant.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2017)

lol editor on apple threads is like that thing on youtube where the first few comments are FIRST!!!!! trying to be the first comment on the video 

thats a sign of a proper anti product crusader  such an inspiration.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> But who will collect your discarded but perfectly good old phone?!



My Mum gets it, so it remains in service!


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> This is a good point.
> 
> It was complicated in the past by phones advancing so much that even though older phones got the updates, they were too slow to run it, or the updates were so large, you had no space left on your phone. But with 64GB storage and ridiculous processors etc, we're now at the state where this isn't as much of a problem.
> 
> ...



This is good news, I was an early adopter of Android. I had the Nexus One, which didn't end up with a very long support lifecycle at all. It was discontinued after just 7 months. I felt well and truly conned. The S was a little bit better, but by the time the Samsung Galaxy's of the world came about, I was pissed off enough with Android, that I switched to iOS. Rare I know to see people go the other way.

It looks a hell of a lot better now, and my mates continue to blow it's trumpet. I've been tempted to get a Xiaomi just to mess about with, but unfortunately, the bad experience I've had with Android on vanilla Google devices weighs on my mind still, and seeing tech articles with lifecycle updates of the phones still being 3 years, puts me off. A lot of these phones cost as much as the 8/8Plus, and when we're dropping that amount of coin on a phone, I want security updates longer than 3 years. As I've said above. I'll give my Mum my hand me downs, this enables her to have a cheap sim only deal, so it's important the phone lasts.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> This is good news, I was an early adopter of Android. I had the Nexus One, which didn't end up with a very long support lifecycle at all. It was discontinued after just 7 months. I felt well and truly conned. The S was a little bit better, but by the time the Samsung Galaxy's of the world came about, I was pissed off enough with Android, that I switched to iOS. Rare I know to see people go the other way.
> 
> It looks a hell of a lot better now, and my mates continue to blow it's trumpet. I've been tempted to get a Xiaomi just to mess about with, but unfortunately, the bad experience I've had with Android on vanilla Google devices weighs on my mind still, and seeing tech articles with lifecycle updates of the phones still being 3 years, puts me off. A lot of these phones cost as much as the 8/8Plus, and when we're dropping that amount of coin on a phone, I want security updates longer than 3 years. As I've said above. I'll give my Mum my hand me downs, this enables her to have a cheap sim only deal, so it's important the phone lasts.


Oh, aye. I'm not trying to convince you or anything. Just saying it's much, much better than it was.

Lots of people I know are happy with iPhones and would probably struggle, or be disappointed, with Android and the issues it (still) has. Use whatever you like/need, init


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 13, 2017)

I've got a 5c. It still does everything I need. In fact it does far more than I need.

It's currently running out of space, but I intend to delete stuff. This will hopefully make more space.

Can't imagine spending a grand on a phone. (I got this handset cheap as it was a couple of upgrades out of date when I bought it online).


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Can't imagine spending a grand on a phone. (I got this handset cheap as it was a couple of upgrades out of date when I bought it online).


A grand for the _base_ model, some peeps will be shelling out nearer 1200 for the upgraded ones.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> A grand for the _base_ model, some peeps will be shelling out nearer 1200 for the upgraded ones.



Plus a case, the "game-changing" wireless charger, earpods, a charging-box to charge your earpods wirelessly (fucking lol), and a new Apple Watch!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> The lack of a back button is very annoying. Things like going back a page on Safari - this should be a piece of pisss, but I had to scroll the page up a few times to get the nav bar to appear, and only _then _could I browse backwards.



You just need to flick downwards for it to appear. Hardly a major hassle.

I recently upgraded to a 7 and that was because I lost my 6 in a cab. Not planning to upgrade for a loooooooooooong time.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You just need to flick downwards for it to appear. Hardly a major hassle.
> 
> I recently upgraded to a 7 and that was because I lost my 6 in a cab. Not planning to upgrade for a loooooooooooong time.


Or tap the top of the screen and the page scrolls to the top and reveals the nav as well.

I miss the autoscroll to top feature when using my Samsung tablet.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> Plus a case, the "game-changing" wireless charger, earpods, a charging-box to charge your earpods wirelessly (fucking lol), and a new Apple Watch!


Shame it's all so massively expensive, I guess that means that in these austere times no one will be able to afford it! 

Oh hang on, it's Apple stuff.... the faithful are already clamouring.... wait for it....


----------



## peterkro (Sep 13, 2017)

Off topic post, if anyone is interested dosdude1's hack for sierra appears to work fine with high sierra.For MacBookPro's that goes back to 5.2 which is early 2009.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Or tap the top of the screen and the page scrolls to the top and reveals the nav as well.



No that just highlights the nav bar and brings up bookmarks.

E2a: actually that does work.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

peterkro said:


> Off topic post, if anyone is interested dosdude1's hack for sierra appears to work fine with high sierra.For MacBookPro's that goes back to 5.2 which is early 2009.



I literally don't know what any of this means.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

Apple are upping the price massively because people are no longer shouting shut up and take my money. 

People are stretching out their phone life longer as they currently do everything they want them to do. See the thread about this. 

Less projected sales = higher price point.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

There is no WAY the phone is worth that much money £999 ffs? I'm glad I got my (still expensive, but cheaper) iPhone 7 Plus last year instead. Now I've seen that there are hardly any reasons to get this phone 8 or X.

Face recognition? Great so instead of a convenient finger press, you now have to hold the thing at a specific angle to your face. I had this briefly on my Samsung Galaxy and it was such a pain in the arse every time I wanted to unlock the phone I switched it off. Did anyone actually have a problem with the home button either? Everyone goes on about edge to edge displays like its some kind of massive deal everyone has been moaning about. The home button has never bothered me in the slightest. I actually like its reassuring presence and feel on my thumb.

Talking emoji? LOL this is MSN Chat era webcam technology. It'll be the new 'Live Photos' in terms of its popularity.

I'm out.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> 100% this. Check the benchmarks for this phone...it absolutely destroys the S8.


It's a meaningless stat. You'll never notice this supposed speed 'destruction' because high end phones already go pretty much as fast as anyone needs in normal use. I can't say I'm ever bothered by any slowdowns on my S7 - in fact the only real bottleneck is the network connection.

The iPhone X is basically Samsung's Note 8 plus Animojis | ZDNet


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

pengaleng said:


> lol editor on apple threads is like that thing on youtube where the first few comments are FIRST!!!!! trying to be the first comment on the video
> 
> thats a sign of a proper anti product crusader  such an inspiration.


 I was 'first' because I happened to be up, you attention seeking twerp.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 13, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> I literally don't know what any of this means.


A new version of OSX "high sierra" is due to be released on the 25th for Mac computers.Because of Apples (and others) habit of updating minimum requirements for their OS's people with perfectly capable computers can't run the latest OS.The hack I mentioned means people can run the latest OS with so-called "legacy hardware" this exposes the lie you need to update every couple of years to have a modern OS (mine is an early 2009).


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> It's a meaningless stat. You'll never notice this supposed speed 'destruction' because high end phones already go pretty much as fast as anyone needs in normal use.



So if they all go as fast as anyone needs then why bother saying:



editor said:


> Worse specs than the Samsung Galaxy S8


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Wireless charging. Meh. I'll be interested when there's a universal standard, time will tell if what they mentioned at the end of the presentation ever happens..


The wireless charging on the S7 is brilliant, a real step forward in convenience and the charging pads are as cheap as fuck too. I won't buy a phone without wireless charging now. No doubt Apple will dream us some stupidly high price for their own chargers too, but thankfully they're using the Qi standard (unless Apple work out a way to stop people using affordable third party chargers, which wouldn't surprise me).,


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So if they all go as fast as anyone needs then why bother saying:


You could start with the display resolution and brightness, microSD card, headphone jack etc etc ....


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> It's a meaningless stat. You'll never notice this supposed speed 'destruction' because high end phones already go pretty much as fast as anyone needs in normal use. I can't say I'm ever bothered by any slowdowns on my S7 - in fact the only real bottleneck is the network connection.
> 
> The iPhone X is basically Samsung's Note 8 plus Animojis | ZDNet


And in three years time when the latest version of iOS uses double the processing power? The iPhone will still be nippy. Check a 3yo Samsung...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> You could start with the display resolution and brightness, microSD card, headphone jack etc etc ....



Not sure why I need more than 120gb storage on a phone.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not sure why I need more than 120gb storage on a phone.


You may not need it, but there's plenty of people who do. 


Fez909 said:


> And in three years time when the latest version of iOS uses double the processing power? The iPhone will still be nippy. Check a 3yo Samsung...


I'll try to check in 2020 to see if you're right.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> You may not need it, but there's plenty of people who do.
> I'll try to check in 2020 to see if you're right.


Or you could try with a Galaxy S5, today...vs an iPhone 5S


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Or you could try with a Galaxy S5, today...vs an iPhone 5S


Except that wouldn't even be slightly meaningful given the huge leaps in Samsung's tech which has seen the company leapahead of Apple in terms of innovation, sales, looks etc.

e.g. 12 Reasons the Galaxy Note 8 Beats the iPhone X


----------



## Winot (Sep 13, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not sure why I need more than 120gb storage on a phone.



I like having my entire music collection on there. Even with high res compressed my current iPhone uses 106GB, and that's with classical music missing.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> Except that wouldn't even be slightly meaningful given the huge leaps in Samsung's tech which has seen the company leapahead of Apple in terms of innovation, sales, looks etc.


It's 100% relevant. We're discussing raw power of the devices. Apple were ahead 3 years ago, and they're miles ahead now


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> It's 100% relevant. We're discussing raw power of the devices. Apple were ahead 3 years ago, and they're miles ahead now


I don't buy a phone for its 'raw power' capabilities, whatever they are.

If my phone goes plenty fast then I'm more than happy. I don't give a toss how much extra massive colossal reserve power is there if I never ever use it or need it. As I said, the only slowdowns I ever notice on my phone are because of the network connection. 

Everything else it does supper snappily and I'm not sure it can go any faster and me notice anything, to be honest.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 13, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> One thing Apple do do well (or used to) is to make sure everything works perfectly.


Like their face recognition demo?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

2hats said:


> Like their face recognition demo?


Apparently that was user error. If you've restarted your phone, you need to put the password in on the first unlock (like Android and its fingerprint scanner), and then you can use the Face ID. The password hadn't been used on the demo device.

Intern getting sacked for that


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

Has anyone ever used face recognition? It massively sucked on the Galaxy Nexus. Not only because it barely worked and when it did it took ages, but more specifically because who wants to keep holding their phone to their face to unlock it. Huge inconvenience Vs putting a finger or thumb on the device at any angle.

I've no doubt the technology and reliability has improved in the years since. But it was literally the constant arm lifting that did it for me in the end with fucking off face recognition.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> Except that wouldn't even be slightly meaningful given the huge leaps in Samsung's tech which has seen the company leapahead of Apple in terms of innovation, sales, looks etc.
> 
> e.g. 12 Reasons the Galaxy Note 8 Beats the iPhone X


I disagree with reason 11. Lightning jack is not a negative. I wish it would become a standard. 
Being able to plug it in either way round is really great. 
USB jacks have a habit of losing fit so eventually you have wiggle to get the phone to charge then you discover later it stopped charging grr. Never had this problem with my lightning cable.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Gromit said:


> I disagree with reason 11. Lightning jack is not a negative. I wish it would become a standard.
> Being able to plug it in either way round is really great.
> USB jacks have a habit of losing fit so eventually you have wiggle to get the phone to charge then you discover later it stopped charging grr. Never had this problem with my lightning cable.


For the record, you can buy USB leads that can be plugged in either way around (at both ends) and if you use wireless charging you never have the problem of non charging leads anyway (not that I've ever suffered that problem).


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

The truth is they're running out of cool things to make you want to upgrade a phone now. Stuff like talking emoji, face recognition, and edge to edge screens aren't things that massively improve a user experience. The last decent incentives were the phablet plus size iPhone models, and the two cameras on the 7 Plus to create depth effect photos.

There is literally nothing on offer here with these phones which I have either wanted or needed. I'd rather spend less money on the new Apple Watch 3 which has a better reason to buy one now it has cellular connectivity. I don't hugely want one but it's still a much better upgrade than anything currently on offer with the iPhone.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

2hats said:


> Like their face recognition demo?


I don't care who's doing it, but I think face recognition would be a major pain in the arse if that's the only unlocking means. Shame Apple don't use this method:


> Considering that people wake up their phones dozens or even hundreds of times a day, all the moments you spend unlocking your device really add up. The Galaxy Note 8, like every other Android 7-powered device, allows you to designate certain locations as Trusted places using the "Smart lock" feature.
> 
> So you can make sure that, when it's in your house, you don't need to unlock


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> I don't care who's doing it, but I think face recognition would be a major pain in the arse if that's the only unlocking means. Shame Apple don't use this method:
> 
> 
> > Considering that people wake up their phones *dozens or even hundreds of times a day*, all the moments you spend unlocking your device really add up. The Galaxy Note 8, like every other Android 7-powered device, allows you to designate certain locations as Trusted places using the "Smart lock" feature.
> ...



That's exactly why you don't want to have to keep holding the screen up so the camera points at your face everytime. It's a massive ball ache compared to before when you could unlock the phone holding it in any position you like. Or not holding it at all. I doubt I even unlock mine even 50% of the time while looking directly at the camera. I quite often don't even pick it up to unlock it. It sits on my desk and I press a finger onto it to read something at an angle.

It will take some readjustment to get used to face unlock, and I predict many people will start to miss the old convenience of the home button.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> Shame Apple don't use this method:


Which is fine provided you can really trust everyone in said location (largely why I've never enabled it on my phone).


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

Useful & informative:


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'd rather spend less money on the new Apple Watch 3 which has a better reason to buy one now it has cellular connectivity. I don't hugely want one but it's still a much better upgrade than anything currently on offer with the iPhone.



So you'd need to take out a new phone contract just for a bloody watch?


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you'd need to take out a new phone contract just for a bloody watch?


Money is no object to the faithful.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you'd need to take out a new phone contract just for a bloody watch?



Details are thin right now but I think it'd more likely be an addon price to an existing contract, if you wanted additional 'cellular' options. EE say £5 a month (per below). I'm yet to be convinced that I want one mind, but that was the biggest feature missing from previous generations of iWatch in my opinion so if I was to get one, I would only get a cellular one. It's good to see you can now have a standalone device which can still take calls and texts if you want to leave your phone somewhere (i.e. if out running or swimming or something).


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Details are thin right now but I think it'd more likely be an addon price to an existing contract, if you wanted additional 'cellular' options. EE say £5 a month (per below). I'm yet to be convinced that I want one mind, but that was the biggest feature missing from previous generations of iWatch in my opinion so if I was to get one, I would only get a cellular one. So its good to see you can now have a standalone device which can still take calls and texts if you want to leave your phone somewhere (i.e. if out running or swimming or something).



I can take calls on my watch. But it's not something I'd ever want to do publicly. It only comes in handy when my phone rings when I'm at home and I can't find the thing. If you want connectivity when you're out running, it's hardly a major hassle just to shove the phone in your bag/pouch/strap it on your arm or whatever.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> I can take calls on my watch. But it's not something I'd ever want to do publicly. It only comes in handy when my phone rings when I'm at home and I can't find the thing. If you want connectivity when you're out running, it's hardly a major hassle just to shove the phone in your bag/pouch/strap it on your arm or whatever.



I sort of agree, much as I like the option of being able to use that function, I'm not sure how much I'd really use it in real life. 

I do like the idea that I could leave a phone at home and go swimming or whatever and take a call in the pool, but then how often does that happen. And I'm so used to taking my phone everywhere anyway, I don't know why I'd leave a phone at home much.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> I sort of agree, much as I like the option of being able to use that function, I'm not sure how much I'd really use it in real life.
> 
> I do like the idea that I could leave a phone at home and go swimming or whatever and take a call in the pool, but then how often does that happen. And I'm so used to taking my phone everywhere anyway, I don't know why I'd leave a phone at home much.


If a real emergency cropped up when I was out, I don't think I'd want to be trying to attend to it with just a watch, no matter how connected it was.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Here's the world wide prices: 

Australia: $1,266

Canada: $1,082

China: $1,285

France: $1,387

Germany: $1,375

Hong Kong: $1,099

India: $1,391

Ireland: $1,410

Italy: $1,423

Japan: $1,024

Mexico: $1,325

New Zealand: $1,311

Russia: $1,387

Singapore: $1,224

United Kingdom: $1,327

What the iPhone X costs around the world


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2017)

I've never been convinced by the watch. The phone already does everything and better bar reading my heartbeat.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

The watch series 3 appealed to me for the first time, but I've not worn a watch since the first mobile phone I had in 1998. So I'm probably not going to start now. I've never really enjoyed wearing a watch, i just find them cumbersome and in the way.


----------



## chilango (Sep 13, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Details are thin right now but I think it'd more likely be an addon price to an existing contract, if you wanted additional 'cellular' options. EE say £5 a month (per below). I'm yet to be convinced that I want one mind, but that was the biggest feature missing from previous generations of iWatch in my opinion so if I was to get one, I would only get a cellular one. It's good to see you can now have a standalone device which can still take calls and texts if you want to leave your phone somewhere (i.e. if out running or swimming or something).




I'd be very interesting in adding a watch to my new deal when I negotiate it. As I've said elsewhere its the GPS (and fitness) function that interests me. Not bothered about taking calls etc. But being able to ping my location to people would be handy.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2017)

Using the watch as a gps and heart rate tracker for Starva whilst cycling is about the only remotely appealing fucntion for me. And I can do both of those better with a proper dedicated bike head unit from Garmin or Wahoo.

I still stand by my first impressions of it and smart watches in general - they're the answer to a question nobody asked. One of those ideas that should be useful but in reality is far too constrained by the form factor.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Using the watch as a gps and heart rate tracker for Starva whilst cycling is about the only remotely appealing fucntion for me. And I can do both of those better with a proper dedicated bike head unit from Garmin or Wahoo.
> 
> I still stand by my first impressions of it and smart watches in general - they're the answer to a question nobody asked. One of those ideas that should be useful but in reality is far too constrained by the form factor.


Some people find them useful even if you don't.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 13, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Using the watch as a gps and heart rate tracker for *Starva* whilst cycling


I think you should probably eat at sensible times in conjunction with exercising for optimal outcome.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> Some people find them useful even if you don't.


I don't doubt that, but everything I've been shown seems to be a compromise and fairly clunky.

"Being able to quickly check a text message" is about the one things that works. Well, whoop de fucking do. This is hardly groundbreaking stuff.

It's annoying because I _want_ a smart watch to work. It's techy and scfi and something as a kid you imagined the future would have. But here we are and they're basically rubbish.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't doubt that, but everything I've been shown seems to be a compromise and fairly clunky.
> 
> "Being able to quickly check a text message" is about the one things that works. Well, whoop de fucking do. This is hardly groundbreaking stuff.


It's more groundbreaking than being able to pull a stupid face at a phone to get an emoji or, in the case of the new iPhone, more convenient than having to pull the phone out of your pocket and line it up to your face before you can access the content.

I like the fact I can switch tracks from my watch, use it as a more accurate fitness checker, get Uber info and lots of other relatively minor, but useful updates. Moreover I like the look of my watch which - to my eyes - is far more attractive than Apple's rectangular effort, being of a conventional round format with rotating bezel.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> It's more groundbreaking than being able to pull a stupid face at a phone to get an emoji or, in the case of the new iPhone, more convenient than having to pull the phone out of your pocket and line it up to your face before you can access the content.
> 
> I like the fact I can switch tracks from my watch, use it as a more accurate fitness checker, get Uber info and lots of other relatively minor, but useful updates. Moreover I like the look of my watch which - to my eyes - is far more attractive than Apple's rectangular effort, being of a conventional round format with rotating bezel.



So you don't look at your phone to look at what content is on the screen? Eh!!

At the moment, I pick up my phone, I have to press the unlock button and hold my finger on it to unlock it. On the X, I touch the screen anywhere and when i look at the screen, it unlocks. I don't have to line it up from what I understand.

Ok it's not groundbreaking, but it's certainly more convenient.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> So you don't look at your phone to look at what content is on the screen? Eh!!
> 
> At the moment, I pick up my phone, I have to press the unlock button and hold my finger on it to unlock it. On the X, I touch the screen anywhere and when i look at the screen, it unlocks. I don't have to line it up from what I understand.
> 
> Ok it's not groundbreaking, but it's certainly more convenient.



Surely you have to line the camera up somehow so it can look at your face. Looking at the screen won't be enough because you can see the screen from all angles but the camera won't necessarily be able to see your face. That's where I foresee massive grumbles because you're going to have to physically position your phone in a certain way just to unlock it now. And if you unlock your phone dozens of times a day, this will turn into a huge inconvenience.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> So you don't look at your phone to look at what content is on the screen? Eh!!
> 
> At the moment, I pick up my phone, I have to press the unlock button and hold my finger on it to unlock it. On the X, I touch the screen anywhere and when i look at the screen, it unlocks. I don't have to line it up from what I understand.
> 
> Ok it's not groundbreaking, but it's certainly more convenient.


You haven't read the context of my post. I was comparing it to reading a message on my watch, which doesn't involve any pulling out of phones from pockets and then having to line up my face to unlock it and read the message.

And if I'm on my Android phone and in a trusted zone I don't even have to unlock the thing. Heck, I can even glance it from an angle which wouldn't work with the X.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> So you don't look at your phone to look at what content is on the screen? Eh!!
> 
> At the moment, I pick up my phone, I have to press the unlock button and hold my finger on it to unlock it. On the X, I touch the screen anywhere and when i look at the screen, it unlocks. I don't have to line it up from what I understand.
> 
> Ok it's not groundbreaking, but it's certainly more convenient.


Do you have to have your eyes open for the face ID thingy to unlock your iphone? If someone was asleep, their iphone carelessly left by their side, could I nick it, point it at their ugly mug & then go on an ipay spreading spree? Or would it be more of a Face Off scenario, involving chloroform, amateur surgery & a willing "face mask" recipient?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Surely you have to line the camera up somehow so it can look at your face. Looking at the screen won't be enough because you can see the screen from all angles but the camera won't necessarily be able to see your face. That's where I foresee massive grumbles because you're going to have to physically position your phone in a certain way just to unlock it now. And if you unlock your phone dozens of times a day, this will turn into a huge inconvenience.



I've been watching demo videos, this is prob the best one I can find where the guy is clearly not holding it up to his face at all, and got it the normal position you'd have your phone when you look at it.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Do you have to have your eyes open for the face ID thingy to unlock your iphone? If someone was asleep, their iphone carelessly left by their side, could I nick it, point it at their ugly mug & then go on an ipay spreading spree? Or would it be more of a Face Off scenario, involving chloroform, amateur surgery & a willing "face mask" recipient?



Your eyes have to be open. Masks and photos don't work. Apparently. I'm sure plenty tech sites will try and figure out a way once it's launched. All about the clicks innit.

Bendgate guy is now a millionaire from his YouTube channel.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> I've been watching demo videos, this is prob the best one I can find where the guy is clearly not holding it up to his face at all, and got it the normal position you'd have your phone when you look at it.




It's really hard to tell what he's doing, but its clear to me he's holding it pointing towards him which is already rubbish because most of the time I unlock my phone I am not doing that, if I'm holding it at all. As I said, I often have it sat on my desk facing the ceiling and I unlock it with a fingerprint. Having to pick it up everytime I want to look at it would be a huge PITA.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's really hard to tell what he's doing, but its clear to me he's holding it pointing towards him which is already rubbish because most of the time I unlock my phone I am not doing that, if I'm holding it at all. As I said, I often have it sat on my desk facing the ceiling and I unlock it with a fingerprint. Having to pick it up everytime I want to look at it would be a huge PITA.



On the 3 instances he uses face ID, he doesn't lift it up, only when doing the crappy emoji thing. 

With you on that one re at desk, you can still unlock it with a code too! So no need to pick it up, but still extra faff of pressing digits.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> With you on that one, you can still unlock it with a code too! So no need to pick it up, but still extra faff of pressing digits.



So then thats at least four key taps in different parts of the screen (unless you have all digits the same) instead of just one tap on the home button 

Also Apple pay sounds way more complicated now...

Here's how you'll use Apple Pay without Touch ID on the iPhone X


> Specifically, you'll tap the button on the side of the iPhone X twice and then look at the phone. At that point, assuming Face ID doesn't glitch out on you, you'll put the phone near the terminal in question, much as you did before.



 I'd love to see that during the rush hour commute on the tube.

All this for some edge to edge display which nobody was really crying out for.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

I'll give you all an honest opinion when I use it. But you'll be waiting a while, finding out if we'll even be able to get them in here for launch, and our guy don't know. It's unlikely as we tend to have to wait an age for a Macbook Pro to arrive anyway, Apples way of channeling stock in this country is a joke!

Tbh Apple Pay the way it is now is already a PITA. More often than not I end up unlocking the phone rather than starting the apple pay process, and have to say sorry, lock the phone again, and hope i don't balls it up a second time. Pressing a button that doesn't unlock the phone in the first place, would have been a better way of implementing it from the start, and then pressing the touch ID. 

And again, you're looking at your phone already as you do all this, so I can't see it being a problem, unless as above, it decides to crap out on you. For the most part I can't be arsed with it anyway and just get my wallet out.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> On the 3 instances he uses face ID, he doesn't lift it up, only when doing the crappy emoji thing.
> 
> With you on that one re at desk, you can still unlock it with a code too! So no need to pick it up, but still extra faff of pressing digits.


If only had a 'trusted locations' facility, eh?


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Thing is, if Apple can't get it to work at their own extra-polished, extra rehearsed launch, then it doesn't hold out much hope for a big success rate for normal folks.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> If only had a 'trusted locations' facility, eh?



It's a useful feature. 

Don't think I'd enable it even if it was available, I've been burgled in the past, and I certainly wouldn't enable it at work.



editor said:


> Thing is, if Apple can't get it to work at their own extra-polished, extra rehearsed launch, then it doesn't hold out much hope for a big success rate for normal folks.




Same happens with touchID, and when you restart, you always have to use the code to unlock, think this was someone else's cockup to be fair, but clearly it's going to get attention.

Where's Kid Eternity when you need him to take some flack!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Where's Kid Eternity when you need him to take some flack!



He's finally realised the error of his ways and is now a fully paid up Android fanboy, so he's laying low, I reckon


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2017)

Apple pay now works perfectly - lift phone out of pocket, while you do so double click, tap terminal. Done. It's great.

Adding another step into that process by having to lift the phone to your face is just daft.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> Thing is, if Apple can't get it to work at their own extra-polished, extra rehearsed launch, then it doesn't hold out much hope for a big success rate for normal folks.



A failure of show prep, not the phone. It was doing exactly what the OS is coded to do.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 13, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> He's finally realised the error of his ways and is now a fully paid up Android fanboy, so he's laying low, I reckon


He's like a cult member who emerges blinking & confused from decades of incarceration in the leader's compound, barely able to form coherent sentences, physically wrecked from a diet of gruel, but seeing the sunshine through reborn eyes, like a babe in arms once more, eager to finally embrace freedom again but timorous, scared & apprehensive...


----------



## Lambert Simnel (Sep 13, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Apple pay now works perfectly - lift phone out of pocket, while you do so double click, tap terminal. Done. It's great.
> 
> Adding another step into that process by having to lift the phone to your face is just daft.



It's only because they had production problems with the fingerprint sensor without a home button, so decided to use facial recognition at the last minute.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2017)

Lambert Simnel said:


> It's only because they had production problems with the fingerprint sensor without a home button, so decided to use facial recognition at the last minute.


This sounds like utter nonsense tbh.

You don't fit all that facial recognition hardware "at the last minute".


----------



## Lambert Simnel (Sep 13, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> This sounds like utter nonsense tbh.
> 
> You don't fit all that facial recognition hardware "at the last minute".



It may sound like utter nonsense to you but it is what is being reported:

iPhone 8 reportedly won’t come with Touch ID


----------



## alex_ (Sep 13, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> Just been on the website, that game they showed, and all photos, use the full thing apart from the annoying sensor tab.



I'd imagine it's games which "know" about The iphone x's special res


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

alex_ said:


> I'd imagine it's games which "know" about The iphone x's special res


No, it's actually the opposite. Games (and films) don't know. So if you need access to the bit that's being 'covered' by the strip, then you have to double-tap the screen, and the whole thing zooms out...giving you bezels on every side


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2017)

dont people ever get totally bored of demonising companies they dont like for petty as fuck reasons?

like you could just not buy one and stfu caring about what other people choose to buy.

the pay must be good. cant see why else anyone would bother.

it's boringer than my shitty burns. get a train set.

what did apple do? kill yer first born? funny shit.

all the 'MY PHONE IS SUPERIOR PRODUCT' is childish.

the level of cares and feels about a phone seems well unhealthy. actually pity you.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

pengaleng said:


> dont people ever get totally bored of demonising companies they dont like for petty as fuck reasons?
> 
> like you could just not buy one and stfu caring about what other people choose to buy.
> 
> ...


Or why don't you just quit whining and trying to misrepresent the discussion here? If the topic holds no interest for you, jog on.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

pengaleng said:


> dont people ever get totally bored of demonising companies they dont like for petty as fuck reasons?
> 
> like you could just not buy one and stfu caring about what other people choose to buy.
> 
> ...


This country needs to demonise companies more. We let them get away with too much bullshit. 

The one upmanship of phone ownership is wanky. I'll grant you that. 

I like Apple products but even I think that they've lost their way a bit. Turning into any other company rather than being innovative. The fact they are still trading on their innovative reputation without actually delivering anything truly innovative is currently grating.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Gromit said:


> This country needs to demonise companies more. We let them get away with too much bullshit.
> 
> The one upmanship of phone ownership is wanky. I'll grant you that.
> 
> I like Apple products but even I think that they've lost their way a bit. Turning into any other company rather than being innovative. The fact they are still trading on their innovative reputation without actually delivering anything innovative is currently grating.


I'm not sure anyone here is even trying to claim that their phones are the best - the discussion seems more to be about the usefulness of various features. What does grate is the way that Apple smugly claim to delivering all this whooped-along innovation when most of it's not even remotely new.

 Apart from that ridiculous _gurning at the phone_ emoji feature. They've definitely invented that. And, frankly, they're welcome to it.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> I'm not sure anyone here is even trying to claim that their phones are the best - the discussion seems more to be about the usefulness of various features. What does grate is the way that Apple smugly claim to delivering all this whooped-along innovation when most of it's not even remotely new.
> 
> Apart from that ridiculous _gurning at the phone_ emoji feature. They've definitely invented that. And, frankly, they're welcome to it.


I don't understand half the emoji that exist now. At least they have universally agreed meanings. 
If I received some gurning pig emoji my very next text would be wtf is that supposed to mean?!


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

Gromit said:


> I don't understand half the emoji that exist now. At least they have universally agreed meanings. If I received some gurning pig emoji my very next text would be wtf is that supposed to mean?!


I could see the appeal of pulling amusing faces at a phone to get an emoji for children, but given this phone comes with a very adult price tag, it just seems a bit embarrassing to be touted as a major new feature. I can't imagine many grown-ups sitting in a cafe pulling stupid faces just to get an emoji on screen.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> I could see the appeal of pulling amusing faces at a phone to get an emoji for children, but given this phone comes with a very adult price tag, it just seems a bit embarrassing to be touted as a major new feature. I can't imagine many grown-ups sitting in a cafe pulling stupid faces just to get an emoji on screen.


We could both be wrong mind. 

An ap that puts a dog nose on your face or a garland of flowers on your head is frigging ridiculous. Or is it? Says the inventor laughing all the way to the bank.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> I'm not sure anyone here is even trying to claim that their phones are the best - the discussion seems more to be about the usefulness of various features. What does grate is the way that Apple smugly claim to delivering all this whooped-along innovation when most of it's not even remotely new.
> 
> Apart from that ridiculous _gurning at the phone_ emoji feature. They've definitely invented that. And, frankly, they're welcome to it.


Except this is a perfect example of what Apple do, and do so well. They take existing stuff that's a bit clunky and make it much better. 

There were MP3 players before the iPod, but they were shit.

There were smartphones before the iPhone, but they were shit.

There were phones with fingerprint readers before the 5s, but they were shit.

Etc etc

I have no doubt that the face tracking and AR bits in this phone will be way ahead of anything else and work brilliantly.

And the first wave of all the stuff they do is always insanely expensive.

Talking about the emoji misses the point, it's just a fun (for idiots) way of showcasing the tech behind it. Smart developers will find ways to use it that no other phone currently can. And that's where the "inovation" is.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Except this is a perfect example of what Apple do, and do so well. They take existing stuff that's a bit clunky and make it much better.
> 
> There were MP3 players before the iPod, but they were shit.
> 
> ...


Love the spin, but Samsung have overtaken Apple in design and led smartphone technology for some time now. After all, it was Samsung who invented the 'phablet' format which Apple went on to slavishly copy after deriding it.

It's been a long time since iPhones had the best displays and I'm not sure how you think depriving users of the option of adding microSD card memory is a good thing, nor is removing the universal headphone socket. And much as Apple does some things very well, Android does some other things better. The gulf in usability and function you're referring to is past history.

Which bits of AR will be "way ahead of anything else" and why should anyone care?

The iPhone X is basically Samsung's Note 8 plus Animojis | ZDNet


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2017)

Posting purely because we've talked about specs, and if phones still perform well in 3/4 years. I haven't fact checked this, just seen it in my twitter feed. If true, it's pretty shocking that a smartphone can outperform a macbook!



Oh, and that news about them charging to 50% extra quick, well, that's gonna cost you extra:

Apple's new iPhones can fast-charge, if you have the right adapter

For anyone that actually wants to read up on the face stuff:
Apple's New Face ID Biometric System Works in the Dark and When Your Face is Obscured by Hats and Beards


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 13, 2017)

No way I would pay over a grand for a phone.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> Thing is, if Apple can't get it to work at their own extra-polished, extra rehearsed launch, then it doesn't hold out much hope for a big success rate for normal folks.




This is a version 1 apple product.


----------



## Tankus (Sep 13, 2017)

editor said:


> For the record, you can buy USB leads that can be plugged in either way around (at both ends) and if you use wireless charging you never have the problem of non charging leads anyway (not that I've ever suffered that problem).


I use magnetic mini jack's





Just leave the connector stud in the socket...and it just snaps together

 My Nexus 2013 will now only charge wirelessly as the socket is fucked....so all my non wireless stuff... portable chargers ,speakers etc..now have these...stops socket wear and tear....


----------



## Dr. Furface (Sep 13, 2017)




----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 14, 2017)

editor said:


> If only had a 'trusted locations' facility, eh?



It's a nice feature, although I still don't trust it at home for various reasons and a fingerprint unlock is so fast anyway.

I do find it dead handy in the car though as with the phone in the holder, fingerprint isn't as quick as it needs to be and as it's working from the car stereo Bluetooth, only works when the car is on.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 14, 2017)

editor said:


> Or why don't you just quit whining and trying to misrepresent the discussion here? If the topic holds no interest for you, jog on.



 jog on 

how the fuck can one 'misrepresent' something so blatant and real and happens on every apple thread exactly?

jokes m8. think yer projecting with the whining thing.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> It's a nice feature, although I still don't trust it at home for various reasons and a fingerprint unlock is so fast anyway.
> 
> I do find it dead handy in the car though as with the phone in the holder, fingerprint isn't as quick as it needs to be and as it's working from the car stereo Bluetooth, only works when the car is on.



The car is a good example of how face recognition is going to suck if you don't have the handset in front of you (as most don't, it usually sits in the middle of the dash) and you then have to keep having to pull it towards your face to unlock it, or punch in a 4-digit code while driving. It's going to mean more obfuscation for drivers which clearly isn't safe.

It's becoming obvious to me that they failed to get the fingerprint scanning tech under the screen sorted, so they resorted to a face saving next best solution because they couldn't be seen to not make some 'game changing' move with the anniversary phone. There was so much hype about removing the home button like it was a massive thing everyone was crying out for, but the reality is, though it would've been very cool to have fingerprint scanning under the screen, it wasn't possible.

So instead, we have a worse experience being spun as some landmark improvement on the basis that it's added a whole 1cm extra screen. Load of bollocks.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 14, 2017)

That black bar with the senors that impinges on the screen at the side is most annoying. I suppose it'll become a common sight on most phones as the obsession with filling as much surface area with screen as possible takes over, so it's not specifically an iPhone issue. But it really jars with my sense of order - like the bar at bottom of some smart watches that has a similarly mildly infuriating presence. I guess one would acclimatise eventually, but every time I see it, it screams wrongness to me. It's like when someone takes a photo with their thumb partially obscuring the lens. Or having a lush 80" widescreen uber telly with a pot plant in the way blocking one corner. It's just so _wrong_.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 14, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> The car is a good example of how face recognition is going to suck if you don't have the handset in front of you (as most don't, it usually sits in the middle of the dash) and you then have to keep having to pull it towards your face to unlock it, or punch in a 4-digit code while driving. It's going to mean more obfuscation for drivers which clearly isn't safe.
> 
> It's becoming obvious to me that they failed to get the fingerprint scanning tech under the screen sorted, so they resorted to a face saving next best solution because they couldn't be seen to not make some 'game changing' move with the anniversary phone. There was so much hype about removing the home button like it was a massive thing everyone was crying out for, but the reality is, though it would've been very cool to have fingerprint scanning under the screen, it wasn't possible.
> 
> So instead, we have a worse experience being spun as some landmark improvement on the basis that it's added a whole 1cm extra screen. Load of bollocks.



Shouldn't be using your phone while driving anyway, massive pet peeve.

Mine is my dash, and generally has sat nav going (reason for why i kill my batteries quickly) so it's generally unlocked.

Also, you're forgetting you can use 'Hey Siri' if you turn it on to be allowed to be used when locked.

To read your messages and dictate texts.

Although why anyone can't wait until they can either a) safely pull over or b) get to their destination before fucking about with their phone I don't know.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 14, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Shouldn't be using your phone while driving anyway, massive pet peeve.
> 
> Mine is my dash, and generally has sat nav going (reason for why i kill my batteries quickly) so it's generally unlocked.
> 
> ...


Using your mobile phone as a SatNav is illegal, drivers are warned
Unless you can use your phone satnav _entirely_ hands free, it's illegal!


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Using your mobile phone as a SatNav is illegal, drivers are warned
> Unless you can use your phone satnav _entirely_ hands free, it's illegal!


Rightly so, too.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 14, 2017)

Obviously I'm setting it up before I set off! 

Not a click bait headline at all.

There were plans for iOS to stop the phone from being used if the GPS detects you're moving a certain speed, after some family tried to sue Apple over their son or daughter dying in a road accident, and wanting to blame the tech company instead.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2017)

So who here is paying £1,000+ for this device?


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 14, 2017)

editor said:


> So who here is paying £1,000+ for this device?



I'll be getting a new device (iPhone 6 is dead) but won't be paying £1K (probably outright at £800).
Probably will end up with the iPhone 8 plus.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 14, 2017)

Tankus said:


> I use magnetic mini jack's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These are brilliant and I'd never seen them before. Cheers! Gonna get some of those 



skyscraper101 said:


> face saving


Very good :groan emoji:



EastEnder said:


> That black bar with the senors that impinges on the screen at the side is most annoying. I suppose it'll become a common sight on most phones as the obsession with filling as much surface area with screen as possible takes over, so it's not specifically an iPhone issue. But it really jars with my sense of order - like the bar at bottom of some smart watches that has a similarly mildly infuriating presence. I guess one would acclimatise eventually, but every time I see it, it screams wrongness to me. It's like when someone takes a photo with their thumb partially obscuring the lens. Or having a lush 80" widescreen uber telly with a pot plant in the way blocking one corner. It's just so _wrong_.


Yes and no. Some people will do it because Apple did. In fact, the Essential phone that came out a while back has a similar 'feature'. 

 


The Essential phone was derided for that, as the iPhone is being now. 

I doubt it'll become a thing, really. It's proper shit.


----------



## Tankus (Sep 14, 2017)

Doesn't matter which way they plug once the connector stud is in either...well tidy


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 14, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Yes and no. Some people will do it because Apple did. In fact, the Essential phone that came out a while back has a similar 'feature'.
> 
> View attachment 115578
> 
> ...


AGHHH! The notch! At the top! It's all I can see! Like a mouse has taken a bite out of the screen! 

This madness must be stopped


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 14, 2017)

just had to check what model my iphone is...a 6s with plenty of storage space. Like a few other posters I have been happy to upgrade every second model cycle as there is no shortage of parents and niecelings happy to get upgraded. There's also plenty of useful things an old iphone can become now, like satnavs and security cams. I distinctly remember thinking that upgrading on the S year was a good idea - anyway I think I'll be waiting at least another year as the 6s still feels just fine, thanks Apple


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2017)

Piers Gibbon said:


> just had to check what model my iphone is...a 6s with plenty of storage space. Like a few other posters I have been happy to upgrade every second model cycle as there is no shortage of parents and niecelings happy to get upgraded. There's also plenty of useful things an old iphone can become now, like satnavs and security cams. I distinctly remember thinking that upgrading on the S year was a good idea - anyway I think I'll be waiting at least another year as the 6s still feels just fine, thanks Apple


But.. but... you won't be able to pull stupid faces at your phone and get a puffing pink hippopotamus emoji! That feature has got to be worth a grand on its own.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 14, 2017)

editor said:


> But.. but... you won't be able to pull stupid faces at your phone and get a puffing pink hippopotamus emoji! That feature has got to be worth a grand on its own.


Yeah I am totally getting jaded, old and grumpy...I read down the features list and precisely NOTHING excited me. I am happy to get faster processors when I need, but the 6s is simply not out of breath yet...  I think the key time to upgrade for me is when the old one is still very very useful to others (but perhaps creaking a little for the whizzier things I might use it for). I held on to one iphone too long and it became useless (a key feature for Mum was the BBC app and it would not update). I held on to an iPad too long and it broke when a colleague had used it for one week. I handed on a 2007 Macbook Pro and that's had a year of sterling use by a colleague but the screen is now making a bid for freedom. There are a few really old iphones that bricked and had to be destroyed with hammers (banking deets etc). So I do regret those occasions when I could have upgraded earlier and the old machine could have been more useful to other people.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 14, 2017)

editor said:


> So who here is paying £1,000+ for this device?



My boss usually upgrades us all when the new ones come out so I'll probably end up with one. 

He'll have one on release day and it will be the most expensive because he's a proper fan boy who is also minted.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 14, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Okay so details released for the next iPhone.
> 
> All the reviewers are saying nice things and repeating the Apple line that it's the phone of the future. The next big leap.
> 
> ...



Boring.

That won't stop the fan-bois masturbating into each other's mouths over it, mind.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Sep 15, 2017)

source: not Jony Ive (@JonyIveParody) on Twitter


----------



## xenon (Sep 15, 2017)

editor said:


> So who here is paying £1,000+ for this device?




Fuck that.

Another one quite happy with my 6S. If I were upgrading this year, I'd go for the 8. Don't care about edge to edge displays, I use a case. Face ID, pfft.


----------



## Winot (Sep 15, 2017)

Have just ordered an 8. Will give my 6 to Mrs W and she will give her 5S to the eldest. Youngest will get the 4, although it is pretty much on last legs battery-wise.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 15, 2017)

I'm waiting patiently for the X on the watch forum - usually can get new phones for £200 off.

Until then, I'm using faulty iPhone 6 (no sound from earpiece)


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2017)

I keep phones until the upgrade option comes around then upgrade it. I pay £50 a month for unlimited calls and texts to everywhere in the world I need, and that includes the cost of the phone. I upgraded to a 7 in November so I guess I'll have an X sometime around May next year. 

It'll cost me about the same as I'm paying now, so why not? 

Couldn't give a toss about facial recognition but the one thing I've noticed over he years is that my iPhones have always just worked better than all of my friends and family's other phones, I like Apple as a company and business model, so I see no need to mess about with changing.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 15, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> I keep phones until the upgrade option comes around then upgrade it. I pay £50 a month for unlimited calls and texts to everywhere in the world I need, and that includes the cost of the phone. I upgraded to a 7 in November so I guess I'll have an X sometime around May next year.
> 
> It'll cost me about the same as I'm paying now, so why not?
> 
> Couldn't give a toss about facial recognition but the one thing I've noticed over he years is that my iPhones have always just worked better than all of my friends and family's other phones, I like Apple as a company and business model, so I see no need to mess about with changing.


WOW! They have _really_ got you, haven't they? 

You're a posterchild for the indoctrinated generation...

Send me your address pronto, we need to mount an intervention posthaste before the brainwashing is complete & you agree to any more Apple T&Cs...


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> WOW! They have _really_ got you, haven't they?
> 
> You're a posterchild for the indoctrinated generation...
> 
> Send me your address pronto, we need to mount an intervention posthaste before the brainwashing is complete & you agree to any more Apple T&Cs...


See, I don't care about all that. It does what I want, at a price I'm happy with, whilst supporting my shareholding in the company and making me feel good about myself.  Let's face it, Apple is the world's coolest brand. Period.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 15, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> See, I don't care about all that. It does what I want, at a price I'm happy with, whilst supporting my shareholding in the company and making me feel good about myself.  Let's face it, Apple is the world's coolest brand. Period.


All hail the supreme Leader!
All hail the supreme Leader!
All hail the supreme Leader!
All hail the supreme Leader!

Is that how the chant goes, or is there a second verse?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 15, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> I keep phones until the upgrade option comes around then upgrade it. I pay £50 a month for unlimited calls and texts to everywhere in the world I need, and that includes the cost of the phone. I upgraded to a 7 in November so I guess I'll have an X sometime around May next year.
> 
> It'll cost me about the same as I'm paying now, so why not?
> 
> Couldn't give a toss about facial recognition but the one thing I've noticed over he years is that my iPhones have always just worked better than all of my friends and family's other phones, I like Apple as a company and business model, so I see no need to mess about with changing.



Depends on what upgrade program you're on. I'd imagine most of the auto upgrade plans will take you to the 8, and not the X. Although I'm sure they will kindly upgrade you to the X for an additional fee.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2017)

I've been mulling over various options this morning and I think I've come to the conclusion that for the first time I'm not going to bother with an upgrade cycle and will switch to a SIM only deal. 

I have the option of switching to an 8, but I honestly can't see what I'll be gaining from my current 6s.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've been mulling over various options this morning and I think I've come to the conclusion that for the first time I'm not going to bother with an upgrade cycle and will switch to a SIM only deal.
> 
> I have the option of switching to an 8, but I honestly can't see what I'll be gaining from my current 6s.


A smaller wallet?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> All hail the supreme Leader!
> All hail the supreme Leader!
> All hail the supreme Leader!
> All hail the supreme Leader!
> ...


You can tell a lot about people by the phone they use. Apple users just have a bit more quality about them than Android types, who generally don't have any. An iPhone owner is slick and confident, whereas Samsung, Sony, et al, tend to be purchased by the kind of people who ask if they can "buy" a cigarette from you because they've quit.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2017)

editor said:


> A smaller wallet?


No, wouldn't cost me a penny, could get one for the daft cheap deal* I already have.

But I can _save_ money by keeping my 6s. Which does everything I need it to.




*as mentioned before on here, a perk of doing various bits of work for T-Mobile years ago


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Depends on what upgrade program you're on. I'd imagine most of the auto upgrade plans will take you to the 8, and not the X. Although I'm sure they will kindly upgrade you to the X for an additional fee.


I've been with the same provider for almost 20 years and have always managed to do deals with them on tariffs and upgrades.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, wouldn't cost me a penny, could get one for the daft cheap deal* I already have.
> 
> But I can _save_ money by keeping my 6s. Which does everything I need it to.
> 
> ...


I upgraded from my 6s because the moisture indicators had fired and the memory was pitifully small. This one has more memory than I'll ever need from a phone, so if it doesn't break I can see me having it for a while.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, wouldn't cost me a penny, could get one for the daft cheap deal* I already have.
> 
> But I can _save_ money by keeping my 6s. Which does everything I need it to.
> 
> ...


You could upgrade to the X for not a penny more?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2017)

editor said:


> You could upgrade to the X for not a penny more?


No, to an 8.


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 15, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> You can tell a lot about people by the phone they use. Apple users just have a bit more quality about them than Android types, who generally don't have any. An iPhone owner is slick and confident, whereas Samsung, Sony, et al, tend to be purchased by the kind of people who ask if they can "buy" a cigarette from you because they've quit.


Android users know how to talk to girls, Apple users have to check whether there's an approved app for that first.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, to an 8.


I would just for the improved battery (given that all phone batteries slowly get worse over time).


----------



## abe11825 (Sep 15, 2017)

I've got the iPhone 6S, which I am finding to be just as much a hassle as the 5S. When I had the 5S, I had a 24 month contract, which by the end of the deal, turned into an extra 12 months of no contract (it became month to month). So three years with the 5 and each update Apple did, some apps weren't updating because they were becoming not compatible with any generation lower than the 6. Sure, I don't have that much of a need for these fancy things, but it's nice to be able to know I can check email if I need to. As long as I can make a phone call, what's the point?

The 6S I have is a 28GB phone (I think), and I have it because the Verizon location I got it from didn't have anything lower. I barely use 8GB, and it's that much based on having a couple albums and apps on it. The only reason I have music is because I've been traveling lately and will be traveling a couple more times. Although I hate using my phone as a music player, my cheap RCA 4GB MP3 player is broken and I have yet to replace it. 

There's no way I want to be upgrading to the new iPhone (the cost is a main reason). Once this contract is done, I'll probably try to keep the phone another year. I've got friends that have tried to switch from iOS to Android, and they've had such a hard time converting everything. They all say there's a definite difference in how things cohesively mesh together. The kicker is that this is coming from tech savvy people! 

I don't need the animated emoji stuff. My Dell laptop came with something like that for the webcam in 2010, and I thought it was childish and rubbish. Why have it on a phone? As far as cameras are concerned, I have over a grand in DSLR equipment, and I intend on putting more into it. I have a Canon EOS Rebel T3 that I've been holding out on upgrading because it still works wonders and I'm still learning on it. It doesn't mean I haven't thought about getting the T6, but when you've got extra lenses, tripods, remotes... it takes a toll. But I'd rather invest in a branded camera like Canon or Nikon (which I have little experience with. It's mainly Canon's line that I hold an allegiance to) than try to keep my phone from breaking just to take a picture. When I had the iPhone 4, the camera app didn't always work, towards the end of the contract. It was too unreliable. On the 5S, it was okay, and now on the 6S, it's the same. It's great for a quick photo to text people, but I really prefer a proper camera. 

I currently work in hotels with a world wide audio visual company. Since we are constantly moving heavy equipment, I'm always concerned about my phone being in my pocket. My work wants us to use our personal phones as a work phone (which I'm 100% against), and I get paranoid that my phone is going to break somehow. Even with an Otterbox bumper case on it. There have been times my phone has fallen out of my pocket, and my co workers have had the same problem. One of the reasons we "need" a phone, especially with music on it, is checking the audio patching. It gets to be a hassle to take your phone out every time you need to check your sound. People have dropped their phones, others have had the screens shatter because something has dropped on it, the list goes on. When I had the 5S, I had gotten a scratch on the screen that I kept watching to make sure it didn't invite friends and become shattered. I got the scratch from a road case rolling at me. That's another reason I won't get a smart watch. I've broken 2 dumb watches in this job already, and I've been there a year and a half.

The phones are nice in some ways, and aren't practical in others.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2017)

I would actually prefer an 8 plus to the X anyway. I'm not convinced by Face Recognition at all.


----------



## abe11825 (Sep 15, 2017)

editor said:


> You could upgrade to the X for not a penny more?





beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, to an 8.



When the original 5 came out and we all had the 4, my cousin upgraded her phone for the penny deal. As much as she's not a technical person, she felt it was worth it to upgrade her phone for a penny.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2017)

abe11825 said:


> There's no way I want to be upgrading to the new iPhone (the cost is a main reason). Once this contract is done, I'll probably try to keep the phone another year. I've got friends that have tried to switch from iOS to Android, and they've had such a hard time converting everything. They all say there's a definite difference in how things cohesively mesh together. The kicker is that this is coming from tech savvy people!


I don't think that's really true anymore unless you've got an Apple home. Short of some niche stuff, the major apps are almost identical on both platforms and perform as well. The biggest pain I had when switching back to Android was moving my contacts into Google, but once that was done I was pretty much future proofed for any OS.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-switch-from-iphone-to-android/
Is it time to switch from iOS to Android?


----------



## Lambert Simnel (Sep 15, 2017)

Why pay more for a phone when you don't have to?

Why buy an Audi instead of Skoda? Because you're a twat that's why.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Android users know how to talk to girls, Apple users have to check whether there's an approved app for that first.


Why would an Android user want to speak to girls though? They all shag goats.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 15, 2017)

I guess one advantage of going Android to iOS as I did, I just use Google still as all my backend stuff, contacts, emails, calendar. It all syncs nicely into all the native iOS stuff, and means I can still use gmail on the desktop and know everything is going to get synced if I add a calendar entry. If I ever went back, I know everything's already in Google!

Still baffles me when I see posts on FB saying 'got a new phone, send me your numbers' who the fuck needs to ask that in 2017. Android users, that's who!


----------



## Gromit (Sep 15, 2017)

cybershot said:


> I guess one advantage of going Android to iOS as I did, I just use Google still as all my backend stuff, contacts, emails, calendar. It all syncs nicely into all the native iOS stuff, and means I can still use gmail on the desktop and know everything is going to get synced if I add a calendar entry. If I ever went back, I know everything's already in Google!
> 
> Still baffles me when I see posts on FB saying 'got a new phone, send me your numbers' who the fuck needs to ask that in 2017. Android users, that's who!


You can download contacts from google via android. I've done it. 

IOS just does it a bit more simply.


----------



## abe11825 (Sep 15, 2017)

editor said:


> I don't think that's really true anymore unless you've got an Apple home. Short of some niche stuff, the major apps are almost identical on both platforms and perform as well. The biggest pain I had when switching back to Android was moving my contacts into Google, but once that was done I was pretty much future proofed for any OS.
> 
> https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-switch-from-iphone-to-android/
> Is it time to switch from iOS to Android?



I went on holiday in July to visit friends and relatives back north in Massachusetts. My first visit was to a cousin who is very into new tech devices and how society works around everything. He went from having all the new iPhones every 2 years to getting an Android this past June. He said although he likes the phone, he's having a worst for wear time trying to get used to the device. It's so different from what he's been accustomed to, so he's slowly learning it's ins and outs. He's not the first one who has made comments to me about switching, although some of my friends that have Androids are saying they would never go to Apple products even though there are instances where they would love to hate their Android. 

I completely understand about the whole niche aspect. "Apple products don't play well with Windows products" theory.... an "environmental" thing. If you can back things up and "future proof for any OS" yes, you've got yourself a nice set up. It's the people who want the latest and greatest that are still behind the times in figuring it all out, IMO.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 15, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> I would actually prefer an 8 plus to the X anyway. I'm not convinced by Face Recognition at all.



I was thinking that but the X is only a little bit more.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 15, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Still baffles me when I see posts on FB saying 'got a new phone, send me your numbers' who the fuck needs to ask that in 2017. Android users, that's who!



I haven't had to re-enter contacts on Android in years. It imports everything for me whenever I get a new phone.


----------



## chilango (Sep 15, 2017)

My 6s was the first "current cycle" phone I've ever had. There's nothing about the 8 or X that particularly appeals so I may hold off upgrading when the time comes. My aim is to try and get an Apple Watch chucked into my deal for no price.


----------



## strung out (Sep 15, 2017)

Does it have a headphone jack?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 15, 2017)

souljacker said:


> I haven't had to re-enter contacts on Android in years. It imports everything for me whenever I get a new phone.



Clearly a lot of people choose to skip the setup process or not sign in with a google Id or create a new one every time they get the phone. Baffles me.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 15, 2017)

strung out said:


> Does it have a headphone jack?


 once you buy an adapter/splitter. Yes!


----------



## souljacker (Sep 15, 2017)

strung out said:


> Does it have a headphone jack?



lol


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2017)

strung out said:


> Does it have a headphone jack?


No. Which is utterly shit.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2017)

souljacker said:


> I haven't had to re-enter contacts on Android in years. It imports everything for me whenever I get a new phone.


Every time for me too. Easy peasy. Log in and they're all there.


----------



## paolo (Sep 15, 2017)




----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 16, 2017)

Decided not to buy the X.
Bought the iPhone 8 Plus today and put the rest of the money (that I would have put on the X) on a mirror less camera that I been eyeing up for the last 18 months.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 16, 2017)

strung out said:


> Does it have a headphone jack?




I haven't missed that one iota with the 7. The adapter provided is pretty much surplus as Bluetooth works perfectly, and I really don't miss having to plug cables into the phone.

The 3.5mm jack is going the same way as the 1/4 inch one.


----------



## abe11825 (Sep 17, 2017)

souljacker said:


> I haven't had to re-enter contacts on Android in years. It imports everything for me whenever I get a new phone.


 (that's Google for you... the info syncs everywhere)

+



cybershot said:


> Clearly a lot of people choose to skip the setup process or not sign in with a google Id or create a new one every time they get the phone. Baffles me.



+



editor said:


> Every time for me too. Easy peasy. Log in and they're all there.



= 

As long as you keep your information up to date, the import process is easy. Keep back up logs, etc. Then the transition isn't hair pulling. It's the lazy sods who think they can get away with not backing up their devices, end up wondering why their new phone or computer isn't syncing correctly. Like cybershot  mentioned about skipping setup processes, it's imperative you don't skip anything for this type of stuff. Don't get mad when you lose things. If you're technical enough to figure out new aspects of a smart phone, you're technical enough to save your contacts. If you're not, YouTube can be your best friend.




Spymaster said:


> I haven't missed that one iota with the 7. The adapter provided is pretty much surplus as Bluetooth works perfectly, and I really don't miss having to plug cables into the phone.
> 
> The 3.5mm jack is going the same way as the 1/4 inch one.



This angers a lot of my coworkers. The once who upgraded their iPhones, all upgraded to the 7 and lost the ability to plug in to the headphone jack. They love not having to worry about cords at home, but at work when we need to test audio systems, no one can do it because no one can plug the stereo jack into their phone... unless they carry the adapter... which they can't be buggered to do. More reason I ended up having to put some music on my phone so when I'm working and we've got to test sound, I have to stop what I'm doing and pull my phone out to make sure things are square. Pain in the arse, really.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 17, 2017)

Samsung S8 with USB - c, headphone jack, Bluetooth etc covers all the bases. When you get a new phone you're glad Google knows everything, attach lead from old phone to new, transfer the lot, job done.

Fuck Apple. (ex iPhone user btw)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2017)

How I setup a new iPhone, so that all contacts come over:

1 - Turn on new phone.
2 - Enter my Apple ID

Done.

As far as I know it's exactly the same for Android, you just use your Google ID. How the fuck people lose all their contacts in this day and age is beyond me.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 17, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> Samsung S8 with USB - c, headphone jack, Bluetooth etc covers all the bases. When you get a new phone you're glad Google knows everything, attach lead from old phone to new, transfer the lot, job done.
> 
> Fuck Apple. (ex iPhone user btw)



Not even sure why you need a leed tbh...


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 17, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Not even sure why you need a leed tbh...


Lead 

Saves pissing about with wireless methods. It just works 

Downloads all your media, contacts and files in literally 1 second. Literally.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 17, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> Lead
> 
> Saves pissing about with wireless methods. It just works
> 
> Downloads all your media, contacts and files in literally 1 second. Literally.



Ah yeah. Forgot about media. Been meaning to do it since I got the phone, but Spotify has been fine. Everything else is on drive.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 17, 2017)

And all your apps.

Anyway, Apple can suck your cheesy bellend


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 17, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> And all your apps.
> 
> Anyway, Apple can suck your cheesy bellend



Yeah. I have a 100mbs broadband. That kind of thing really doesn't take long.


----------



## abe11825 (Sep 18, 2017)

There's an option in the iPhone settings to back up certain media / apps to iCloud when the phone is plugged in (charging). You can opt in or out and decide what you want backed up. With iTunes, it's the same process, except now it's a specific file format on your computer. There is no excuse why people should have a negative opinion (complaints). 

My negative opinion about new generations of _any_ phone is the cost. I know Apple marks up their products a lot, and it's not appreciated, that's for sure. A $1,000+ cell phone (or pocket computer, depending on how you look at it) is a month's rent / utilities somewhere / 6 months of food supplies [depending on family size and what you're buying]... A family of 4 can go broke with the upgraded devices. There are priorities in life, and if a thousand dollar cell phone is a major necessity, then it better well do other things for me... to make up for the lack of funds I'll be using elsewhere. Hell, my laptop didn't even cost that much and it works pretty damn good... when it wants to.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2017)

I won't be getting one....... I think I'm going to go back to a buttons phone, and get myself an iPod touch or something for apps etc.


----------



## nick (Sep 22, 2017)

I think the fact that no one has commented on this thread for 4 days (a record for an Apple thread?) is a good indication that the world looked at the iPhone X and collectively went "meh"


----------



## Virtual Blue (Sep 22, 2017)

cancelled my 'window' order at the Apple Store.
After reading the reviews, the iPhone 8 Plus is pretty shit.

Will continue living with a dodgy iPhone 6 - see how it goes.


----------



## 8den (Sep 22, 2017)

I just want an iPhone the size of my 5S with more than two hours battery charge.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 22, 2017)

8den said:


> I just want an iPhone the size of my 5S with more than two hours battery charge.


iPhone SE


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 22, 2017)

8den said:


> I just want an iPhone the size of my 5S with more than two hours battery charge.



How about replacing the battery in the 5s?


----------



## 8den (Sep 22, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> iPhone SE





UnderAnOpenSky said:


> How about replacing the battery in the 5s?



Presumably, I'll just upgrade to the SE or similar once my iphone dies/apple stop issuing software updates for OS 10 whichever comes first.


----------



## elbows (Sep 24, 2017)

nick said:


> I think the fact that no one has commented on this thread for 4 days (a record for an Apple thread?) is a good indication that the world looked at the iPhone X and collectively went "meh"



I doubt this forum is a great guide to world opinion on iPhones. They will probably sell shitloads of the X, and we will have to listen to lots of people who want one moaning for months due to likely supply constraints.

There are only two reason I am considering the X. There are camera features I want that are normally only available on the plus models, and I dont like the size of the plus. So the X gives me the opportunity to get those features with a milder increase in device size than the plus. And as a developer there are a couple of things I want to try to use the facial expression detection for.

I havent decided if I really want one yet or not, plenty of time to make up my mind.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2017)

nick said:


> I think the fact that no one has commented on this thread for 4 days (a record for an Apple thread?) is a good indication that the world looked at the iPhone X and collectively went "meh"


Those massive queues that Apple like to manipulate have failed to materialise.  And those sad fuckers who spend a week queuing up are very thin on the ground this time too.









> However, this time, there was barely anybody queueing in London or, indeed, other sites across the world. You couldn’t really call it a queue in London – the meagre scrum had the ambience of a disused bus stop.
> 
> Some reports say that those who queued were outnumbered _and_ applauded by Apple staff when they opened the doors. Is this all to do with the imminent arrival of yet another new iPhone (iPhone X) in just over a month or is the dreaded brand fatigue setting in?



What, no queue? Has Apple lost its core supporters? | Barbara Ellen

iPhone 8: muted reaction and small queues lead to questions over demand

Plain embarrassing really: 






At the UK launch of the iPhone 8, there were more Apple staff than customers


----------



## cybershot (Sep 25, 2017)

You mock, but wait until the X is released!


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2017)

cybershot said:


> You mock, but wait until the X is released!


Can't wait to see the sight of idiots applauding someone spending a £1,000. 

And as for the speed claims, weeeeell:


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2017)

editor said:


> Can't wait to see the sight of idiots applauding someone spending a £1,000.
> 
> And as for the speed claims, weeeeell:




The iPhone X isn't the iPhone 8, they're different models. You're responding to a quote about the iPhone X, on a thread about the iPhone X, with a video of the iPhone 8.

The 8 plus is also £800, not £1000.

I'm confused.


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2017)

sim667 said:


> The iPhone X isn't the iPhone 8, they're different models. You're responding to a quote about the iPhone X, on a thread about the iPhone X, with a video of the iPhone 8.
> 
> I'm confused.


I like to keep you on your toes.

(PS Just about everyone else has been talking about different iPhone models in this very thread)


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2017)

editor said:


> I like to keep you on your toes.
> 
> (PS Just about everyone else has been talking about different iPhone models in this very thread)




I'm a stickler for accuracy


----------



## cybershot (Oct 2, 2017)

editor said:


> Can't wait to see the sight of idiots applauding someone spending a £1,000.
> 
> And as for the speed claims, weeeeell:




You mock, but wait until the X is released!


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2017)

cybershot said:


> You mock, but wait until the X is released!


My real point is that it's pretty much immaterial as most modern phones are plenty fast already and the differences are negligible in real life usage.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2017)

Looking at the cost of contracts on 3, I certainly won't be considering taking a new contract out to get one. I'd have been tempted by an iPhone 8, but for me I would want all you can eat data, and the cost of that on 3 is £99 quid for the phone and £87 a month for the contract. So no way will I be getting one.

I'll either pay to get a new battery for my iPhone 6, or get an iPod touch and a buttons phone.


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Looking at the cost of contracts on 3, I certainly won't be considering taking a new contract out to get one. I'd have been tempted by an iPhone 8, but for me I would want all you can eat data, and the cost of that on 3 is £99 quid for the phone and £87 a month for the contract. So no way will I be getting one.
> 
> I'll either pay to get a new battery for my iPhone 6, or get an iPod touch and a buttons phone.


*87 QUID a month?! Fucking hell.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 2, 2017)

editor said:


> *87 QUID a month?! Fucking hell.


That's insane


----------



## souljacker (Oct 2, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Looking at the cost of contracts on 3, I certainly won't be considering taking a new contract out to get one. I'd have been tempted by an iPhone 8, but for me I would want all you can eat data, and the cost of that on 3 is £99 quid for the phone and £87 a month for the contract. So no way will I be getting one.
> 
> I'll either pay to get a new battery for my iPhone 6, or get an iPod touch and a buttons phone.



87 a month is a typo, surely. I was in carphone shitehouse about half an hour ago and I'm sure it was around 40 a month (although not for unlimited data).


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That's insane





editor said:


> *87 QUID a month?! Fucking hell.


 £77 for the 64 GB (I'd want a 256GB one though), the only way you can get AYCE data is to go AYCE everything.

Currently I've got AYCE data and 200 mins and 500 texts for £24 a month...... Why they think I'd pay an extra £53 a month for 2 years and £99 for the phone, I've no idea, it works out as £1371 extra (£1947) in total.

I could buy a 256GB iPhone 8 outright and save over £500. I could even buy a top of the range iPhone X outright and save £200 still


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2017)

souljacker said:


> 87 a month is a typo, surely. I was in carphone shitehouse about half an hour ago and I'm sure it was around 40 a month (although not for unlimited data).


Have a look on the 3 site.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 2, 2017)

So assuming 24 month contract, and that it's the 64GB model that's £2,175 all in.

I can't find an unlimited data tariff, but Three do 8GB for £12 a month (must really phone them, I'm paying £14 for 4GB!!)

So that would £999 for phone outright (you can do apple in store finance to spread cost) and  £12 x 24 = £1,287.

Almost £1k more from a phone network! Outrageous.


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Have a look on the 3 site.


Blimey. And Three are one of the cheapest network providers too!


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2017)

cybershot said:


> So that would £999 for phone outright (you can do apple in store finance to spread cost) and  £12 x 24 = £1,287.



Or just get a 2 year interest free credit card to buy it on.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2017)

souljacker said:


> 87 a month is a typo, surely. I was in carphone shitehouse about half an hour ago and I'm sure it was around 40 a month (although not for unlimited data).



70 GB is the biggest I can find on Carphone Warehouse website, £63 a month on vodafone. Anyone who takes a vodafone contract out needs their head examining.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 2, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Or just get a 2 year interest free credit card to buy it on.



Lloyds keep offering me even longer than that on the card i've not used for over a year, so X and an LG OLED is going to end up on it soon!


----------



## cybershot (Oct 2, 2017)

Just logged into 3 and there's some good deal on if you're out of contract, as I am, on SIM only.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 2, 2017)

They always do this, although not to this level, I guess to fleece those who really want one now. The S8 was silly on contract when it came. A few months later it was the slightly cheaper for the me to buy one on contract then outright.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Just logged into 3 and there's some good deal on if you're out of contract, as I am, on SIM only.



I'm already sim only AYCE data for £24 a month.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 27, 2017)

Didn't take long for shipping to get knocked back, damn slow checkout!


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

A grand for a phone.

#oneborneveryday


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

Is the snootiness about peoples phone choices really necessary?

Its their money to spend on what they choose. Or do we start being snotty about people who drive VW's rather than Seat now too, when they're basically exactly the same cars with an extra few grand added on.


----------



## ffsear (Oct 27, 2017)

If i had the money, i'd love to put a bet on Apple's share price going down.  I think they've completely lost track of the market.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 27, 2017)

ffsear said:


> If i had the money, i'd love to put a bet on Apple's share price going down.  I think they've completely lost track of the market.



Maybe not, or just a case of #oneborneveryminute

iPhone X: most expensive Apple smartphone sells out in minutes


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Maybe not, or just a case of #oneborneveryminute
> 
> iPhone X: most expensive Apple smartphone sells out in minutes


Notably, there's no numbers attached to that amazeballs "sold out in minutes" story. So it's a meaningless article.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Is the snootiness about peoples phone choices really necessary?
> 
> Its their money to spend on what they choose. Or do we start being snotty about people who drive VW's rather than Seat now too, when they're basically exactly the same cars with an extra few grand added on.


It's not snootiness. It's just amazement that rich people are prepared to throw down a grand or more for a phone.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> It's not snootiness. It's just amazement that rich people are prepared to throw down a grand or more for a phone.


To paraphrase The Streets, an iPhone X don't come for free!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> It's not snootiness. It's just amazement that rich people are prepared to throw down a grand or more for a phone.


As opposed to what, 700 for a Samsung?

How much do people pay for laptops? Hifi? TVs?

The current crop of top flight smartphones aren't really phones, they're incredibly small computers. It's amazing they only cost what they do tbh.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> As opposed to what, 700 for a Samsung?


£499 brand new on eBay. So that's half the price.

Tell me what amazing, unique things the iPhone X can do to justify the doubling of the price.

Oh and there's usually a very clear difference between a TV or laptop that's half the price of another so your comparison is well wobbly.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> It's not snootiness. It's just amazement that rich people are prepared to throw down a grand or more for a phone.


Because someone who drops £800 on a Samsung S8 clearly isn't "rich"..........

At the end of the day if you've got enough disposable income to be buying the newest smartphones, regardless of manufacturer, you're pretty rich.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> £499 brand new on eBay. So that's half the price.



Probably stolen.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Because someone who drops £800 on a Samsung S8 clearly isn't "rich"..........


Just to clear up this pricing thing. Here's just one example. 

Brand New Samsung Galaxy S8 G950F Midnight Black 64GB UNLOCKED 4G LTE SIM FREE 8806088686684 | eBay


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Probably stolen.


Nope, try again.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

As if they're legit on ebay.

£700 from a reputable shop, plus the guilt of buying a phone from a company that manufactures arms........ you can keep it ta.

That said I won't be buying a new iphone either.... I'll probably go back to a dumb phone after my iphone 6 dies.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> As if they're legit on ebay.
> 
> £700 from a reputable shop, plus the guilt of buying a phone from a company that manufactures arms........ you can keep it ta.
> 
> That said I won't be buying a new iphone either.... I'll probably go back to a dumb phone after my iphone 6 dies.


I've bought all of my phones off eBay and had no problem with any of them, even when making a warranty claim. But at a time when the differences between cheap mid-range and high end phones are pretty much negligible in normal use, one grand is a preposterous amount of money to pay for a phone.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

Also, just to clarify the S8 is more comparable to the iPhone 8, which starts at around the same price mark (£699). The iPhone is is intended as a flagship model and priced as such.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> one grand is a preposterous amount of money to pay for a phone.



Its all about choice though, you choose not to. I choose not to buy a porsche when I need a new car, it doesn't mean I make smarmy comments at someone who does.

Buying a phone off ebay is your choice, I choose not to take the risk, because I highly doubt most of them are legit.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Also, just to clarify the S8 is more comparable to the iPhone 8, which starts at around the same price mark (£699). The iPhone is is intended as a flagship model and priced as such.


How is the iPhone X better than the S8?

They seem broadly very comparable to me. 
iPhone X vs Samsung Galaxy S8: Apple's new hero against this year's best phone | TechRadar
Galaxy S8 vs iPhone X: Which phone is right for you? | Trusted Reviews


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Its all about choice though, you choose not to. I choose not to buy a porsche when I need a new car, it doesn't mean I make smarmy comments at someone who does.


I choose not to pay a grand for ANY phone because I think it's a ludicrous amount of money. And it's not a 'choice' anyway. I can't afford a grand.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> I can't afford a grand.



Great, so what you're actually doing is having a dig at how people choose to spend their money, nothing more.


----------



## Fez909 (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> the guilt of buying a phone from a company that manufactures arms........ you can keep it ta.


That comment is ridiculous

Samsung Will Be Apple's Top Supplier For iPhones Again In 2017


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> That comment is ridiculous
> 
> Samsung Will Be Apple's Top Supplier For iPhones Again In 2017





> The South Korean company now only supplied DRAM chips for the iPhone 7



I don't have one of those phones, and like I said, I highly doubt I'll buy another iphone.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> That comment is ridiculous
> 
> Samsung Will Be Apple's Top Supplier For iPhones Again In 2017


Yep. If you buy just about any technology, there's very little moral high ground to be found. Apple are every bit as bad as the rest of them - probably worse than most when you consider the vast fat profits they sit on. They could easily pay their workers more and still be as rich as fuck, but that's not their style. And then there was their long history of never giving to charity....


----------



## alex_ (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> Notably, there's no numbers attached to that amazeballs "sold out in minutes" story. So it's a meaningless article.



According to tinternet supply is very low, so that it’s sold out is no surprise and as you say meaningless.

Alex


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> Yep. If you buy just about any technology, there's very little moral high ground to be found. Apple are every bit as bad as the rest of them - probably worse than most when you consider the vast fat profits they sit on. They could easily pay their workers more and still be as rich as fuck, but that's not their style. And then there was their long history of never giving to charity....



None of these are issues solely related to apple.


----------



## Fez909 (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> I don't have one of those phones, and like I said, I highly doubt I'll buy another iphone.


Whether you have one or not is irrelevent. I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of your comment, when you use Samsung = evil as your argument yet...


sim667 said:


> I'd have been tempted by an iPhone 8


If you think giving money to Samsung is OK if it goes via Apple, then I don't know what to say. It feels like 'ethics laundering'.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Whether you have one or not is irrelevent. I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of your comment, when you use Samsung = evil as your argument yet...



Its not irrelevent at all. You're trying to portray me as a hypcorite by using examples of technology I don't even own.



Fez909 said:


> If you think giving money to Samsung is OK if it goes via Apple, then I don't know what to say. It feels like 'ethics laundering'.



Read what I already posted.



> The South Korean company now only supplied DRAM chips for the iPhone 7





sim667 said:


> I don't have one of those phones, and like I said, I highly doubt I'll buy another iphone.


----------



## Fez909 (Oct 27, 2017)

sim667 said:


> Its not irrelevent at all. You're trying to portray me as a hypcorite by using examples of technology I don't even own.
> 
> 
> 
> Read what I already posted.


But you'd consider an iPhone, yes?

But wouldn't considering a Samsung? Because you don't want to give money to weapons manufacturers?


----------



## cybershot (Oct 27, 2017)

It's like we've gone back 4 pages.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 27, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> But you'd consider an iPhone, yes?
> 
> But wouldn't considering a Samsung? Because you don't want to give money to weapons manufacturers?



Samsung make money making parts for the iPhone than they do their own phones. So I read, at some point. May still hold true.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> But you'd consider an iPhone, yes?
> 
> But wouldn't considering a Samsung? Because you don't want to give money to weapons manufacturers?



I'm not considering any model of phone for the moment. My next phone I imagine will be my festival burner phone I've had lying around for about 5 or 6 years and use a couple of times a year currently.


----------



## Fez909 (Oct 27, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Samsung make money making parts for the iPhone than they do their own phones. So I read, at some point. May still hold true.


Yep: Samsung stands to make more from iPhone X than Galaxy S8 thanks to parts | TechRadar


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 27, 2017)

editor said:


> I can't afford a grand.



...like most buyers I reckon, tis why they use credit cards (or get a stupid network/ contract deal).


----------



## Virtual Blue (Oct 27, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Didn't take long for shipping to get knocked back, damn slow checkout!



TopCashback


----------



## ffsear (Oct 27, 2017)

Don't get this Apple v Samsung debate...   It's android v IOS.  And for me Android is a clear winner.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2017)

An astute comment from the BGR article: 



> *Apple Guide to Creating Hype*
> 
> 1) Assess demand.
> 2) Stifle production by a large margin to ensure demand is not met.
> ...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 27, 2017)

Well. It clearly works for them.


----------



## paolo (Oct 28, 2017)

editor said:


> An astute comment from the BGR article:



You did recently comment on how *unpopular* you felt their products are.

As mind control goes - Apple has you.

You *have* to talk about Apple, more than anyone else here.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2017)

paolo said:


> You did recently comment on how *unpopular* you felt their products are.
> 
> As mind control goes - Apple has you.
> 
> You *have* to talk about Apple, more than anyone else here.


That's not even slightly true, but whatever.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 28, 2017)

A lot of pre-ordered phones on delay are already having their dates moved forward (although mine hasn't as of yet) I will assess 'store pick up' options until it's dispatched anyway. I'm kind of glad I didn't get a guaranteed 3rd Nov order anyway as it was a ball ache of a day for me with meetings and no doubt courier would have just left it somewhere for me to try and find in a building with no reception and a signature I wouldn't be able to figure out. #firstworldproblems


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 29, 2017)

iPhone X repair prices will make your wallet cry | Cult of Mac

Mental


----------



## cybershot (Oct 30, 2017)

First allowed published preview. Review embargo lifted later this week.

The First First Impression of the iPhone X | Backchannel


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2017)

cybershot said:


> First allowed published preview. Review embargo lifted later this week.
> 
> The First First Impression of the iPhone X | Backchannel


It'll be a puff piece by a favoured Apple writer so I'll give it a miss.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 30, 2017)

editor said:


> It'll be a puff piece by a favoured Apple writer so I'll give it a miss.


It's actually not that bad.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's actually not that bad.


I'd be worried if I'd ordered one then!


----------



## cybershot (Oct 30, 2017)

I wouldn't have posted it if it came across as a marketing article.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2017)

cybershot said:


> I wouldn't have posted it if it came across as a marketing article.


But you know how Apple favour positive reviews and ensure that they always get first dibs to guarantee early gushage?


----------



## cybershot (Oct 30, 2017)

editor said:


> But you know how Apple favour positive reviews and ensure that they always get first dibs to guarantee early gushage?



Surely every company favours positive reviews!


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Surely every company favours positive reviews!


But no company is as controlling or as PR-manipulating as Apple.

I thought this was blindingly obvious to everyone.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Oct 30, 2017)

At £999 it's an almost 100% chance of a guaranteed £1k a pop mugging bonanza, the peeps in my hostel are all going be on IOS soon


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2017)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> At £999 it's an almost 100% chance of a guaranteed £1k a pop mugging bonanza, the peeps in my hostel are all going be on IOS soon


Best pop in a pair of those ridiculous Apple wireless earphones to help advertise the likelihood of a Mugger's Jackpot!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 30, 2017)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> At £999 it's an almost 100% chance of a guaranteed £1k a pop mugging bonanza, the peeps in my hostel are all going be on IOS soon



I thought that nicking a high end smartphone was pretty pointless as they just got deactivated.


----------



## pesh (Oct 30, 2017)

Liking posts about people getting mugged for using flashy kit is a bit strong for a photographer I'd have thought.


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2017)

pesh said:


> Liking posts about people getting mugged for using flashy kit is a bit strong for a photographer I'd have thought.


Is it really? Do you think all photographers walk around the city with a huge camera and lens always on show?

I don't so I'm having trouble with your comment about me _liking_ a post.


----------



## pesh (Oct 30, 2017)

If they can spot a thinner bezel on a phone they can spot a decent camera being used.
And i'm guessing a decent camera has a higher resale value than a bricked iPhone.
Yay, violent streetcrime. pfft.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Oct 30, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I thought that nicking a high end smartphone was pretty pointless as they just got deactivated.



Tell that to all peeps round here with deactivated iPhones.

I'm not advocating any form of robbery, just pointing out the obvious. A few years ago no one was carrying around 1k+ worth of kit on them. Hence the returns likely from a mugging etc have gone sky high.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

pesh said:


> If they can spot a thinner bezel on a phone they can spot a decent camera being used.
> And i'm guessing a decent camera has a higher resale value than a bricked iPhone.


This really is a desperately piss weak comparison. My regular camera looks shit and your average mugger would be far more likely to go for the person with the lit up screen talking into their phone or staring down at it while not paying attention. Scumbags grab phones off people all the time because they're easy to spot and sell on. Moped gangs roam the streets with just that in mind.

Just like those cunts would often target people with Apple's trademark white headphones back in the day, I imagine anyone walking around with their ugly Bluetooth headphones on may be similarly targeted. It's hardly the same story for compact cameras.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 31, 2017)

And go......

• The Verge
• Digital Trends
• Forbes
• The Washington Post
• Financial Post
• Business Insider
• Mashable
• CNBC
• TechCrunch
• iMore
• CNET
• The Independent
• BuzzFeed News
• The Loop
• The Telegraph
• SlashGear
• The Economic Times of India
• Tom's Guide


----------



## cybershot (Oct 31, 2017)

Glad to see the dictation icon has moved, I'm always accidentally hitting the bugger instead of the space.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

The Verge article is interesting and raises those concerns we were discussing about the phone's 'mugability.' If you want to unlock your phone, you've got to take it out of your pocket and hold it close to your face, thus showing it off to the world.



> In my early tests, FaceID worked well indoors: sitting at my desk, standing in our video studio, and waiting to get coffee. You have to look at it head-on, though: if it’s sitting on your desk you have to pick up the phone and look at it, which is a little annoying if you’re used to just putting your finger on the TouchID sensor to check a notification.
> 
> You also can’t be too casual about it: I had a lot of problems pulling the iPhone X out of my pocket and having it fail to unlock until Apple clarified that FaceID works best at a distance of 25 to 50 centimeters away from your face, or about 10 to 20 inches. That’s closer than I usually hold my phone when I pull it out of my pocket to check something, which means I had to actively think about holding the iPhone X closer to my face than every other phone I’ve ever used. “You’re holding it wrong” is a joke until it isn’t, and you can definitely hold the iPhone X wrong.





> I took a walk outside our NYC office in bright sunlight, and FaceID definitely had issues recognizing my face consistently while I was moving until I went into shade or brought the phone much closer to my face than usual. I also went to the deli across the street, which has a wide variety of lights inside, including a bunch of overhead florescent strips, and FaceID also got significantly more inconsistent.



The article picks up on the security risk: 


> Recent Apple products have tended to demand people adapt to them instead of being adapted to people, and it was hard not to think about that as I stood in the sunlight, waving a thousand-dollar phone ever closer to my face.


iPhone X review: face the future


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

The comments bring up an interesting point that it'll be easier for cops to unlock your phone if you're arrested by just pointing it at your face rather then trying to force you to unlock it with a code/fingerprint.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 31, 2017)

editor said:


> The comments bring up an interesting point that it'll be easier for cops to unlock your phone if you're arrested by just pointing it at your face rather then trying to force you to unlock it with a code/fingerprint.



You can do a particular combination of key presses, even on current iphones that disables unlocking for 'mugging situations' although it's that complex, I have no idea what it is without googling it. 

EDIT: not that complex, just 5 presses of the sleep button, was introduced only recently.

iPhone X, you just 'squeeze it'

Apple: Just squeeze the iPhone X if you're forced into a Face ID unlock | ZDNet


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

cybershot said:


> You can do a particular combination of key presses, even on current iphones that disables unlocking for 'mugging situations' although it's that complex, I have no idea what it is without googling it.
> 
> EDIT: not that complex, just 5 presses of the sleep button, was introduced only recently.
> 
> ...


I don't think any of that is going to be much use if you've just been cuffed and they take the phone out of your pocket.

But having to stare at the phone close to your face to unlock it is rather going to broadcast the fact that you're holding a $1,000 handset.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 31, 2017)

The general feeling of most reviews seem to follow the usual "new Apple thing" pattern - it's an expensive step forward that will take a while to settle down and become the new norm as developers catch up with the tech available.

There's a hardcore of Apple fans that will buy it whatever, the rest of us can wait until version three when all the bugs have been fixed and the price has come down...


----------



## cybershot (Oct 31, 2017)

editor said:


> I don't think any of that is going to be much use if you've just been cuffed and they take the phone out of your pocket.
> 
> But having to stare at the phone close to your face to unlock it is rather going to broadcast the fact that you're holding a $1,000 handset.



Gonna be a right ball ache on a packed standing room only train when I just wanna change album!


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The general feeling of most reviews seem to follow the usual "new Apple thing" pattern - it's an expensive step forward that will take a while to settle down and become the new norm as developers catch up with the tech available.


I really hope that having to take the phone out of my pocket and holding it close to my face doesn't become the new norm for unlocking a phone. Or having no headphone jack.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 31, 2017)

Although saying that, I'll probably find myself 'squeezing it' in order to cancel out Face Id, so I can unlock with a code instead. Ah Workaround already!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 31, 2017)

editor said:


> I really hope that having to take the phone out of my pocket and holding it close to my face doesn't become the new norm for unlocking a phone. Or having no headphone jack.


For better or worse the headphone jack is dead. Let it go, buy some wireless headphones and move on.

As for the face ID... I remain unconvinced. Let's see what people are saying in 12 months time.

The face ID/AR tech in this thing though... it surely has huge potential. Will be interesting to see what developers can come up with.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> For better or worse the headphone jack is dead. Let it go, buy some wireless headphones and move on.
> 
> As for the face ID... I remain unconvinced. Let's see what people are saying in 12 months time.


I'm not marching to Apple's beat for some time yet, thanks. The thought of being on a long train journey and having the headphones run out of battery is a monster downer.

There's loads of interesting stuff going on with Face ID, but having to shove your face in your phone to unlock it isn't one of them.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 31, 2017)

I'm not sure what benefit face recognition has over finger prints. The phone can be any position and be unlocked with a print as opposed to having to hold it up.


----------



## Mojofilter (Oct 31, 2017)

I have to say that as a recent (very happy) convert from Android, if iPhone's drop Touch ID in favour of Face ID I think that would have me going back to Android. Regardless of how well it works there are too many situations where I want to use my phone while it's barely in view of my face or I just don't want to hold it up to my face.
Subtly checking it work, unlocking it while driving because i'm lost and need to open up sat-nav, when i'm on a cardio machine at the gym. Also your eyes have to be open so not ideal for those times when I can't sleep and I put a podcast on to drift off to, fully opening my eyes and holding the phone right in front of my face isn't going to help matters.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 31, 2017)

As already posted above, you can press two buttons on the side to disable face id, and next unlock needs to be done by unlock code. Whilst I agree this is a faff, and nowhere near as quick as touch id, you don't HAVE to use face id in situations where you don't want to.

And you shouldn't be fucking about with your phone while driving so anything that makes that more difficult gets a thumbs up from me.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

Mojofilter said:


> I have to say that as a recent (very happy) convert from Android, if iPhone's drop Touch ID in favour of Face ID I think that would have me going back to Android. Regardless of how well it works there are too many situations where I want to use my phone while it's barely in view of my face or I just don't want to hold it up to my face.
> Subtly checking it work, unlocking it while driving because i'm lost and need to open up sat-nav, when i'm on a cardio machine at the gym. Also your eyes have to be open so not ideal for those times when I can't sleep and I put a podcast on to drift off to, fully opening my eyes and holding the phone right in front of my face isn't going to help matters.


It's going to look like some weird version of the future if a load of people use their iPhones to get on the tube, all pulling their phones out of their pockets and lifting them to their face....


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

cybershot said:


> As already posted above, you can press two buttons on the side to disable face id, and next unlock needs to be done by unlock code. Whilst I agree this is a faff, and nowhere near as quick as touch id, you don't HAVE to use face id in situations where you don't want to.
> 
> And you shouldn't be fucking about with your phone while driving so anything that makes that more difficult gets a thumbs up from me.


That is a fair amount of faffage just to unlock a phone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 31, 2017)

editor said:


> That is a fair amount of faffage just to unlock a phone.



I'm assuming it can be turned off and you can just use a pin?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I'm assuming it can be turned off and you can just use a pin?


Using a pin number is soooo 2014!


----------



## cybershot (Oct 31, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I'm assuming it can be turned off and you can just use a pin?



I’d assume so. Thou that probably means disabling Apple Pay also. Catch 22.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 31, 2017)

editor said:


> It's going to look like some weird version of the future if a load of people use their iPhones to get on the tube, all pulling their phones out of their pockets and lifting them to their face....


Or people taking their phone out of their pocket and just glancing down at it, which will seem fairly normal.  It’s all down to how well it works, and nobody really knows that yet.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Or people taking their phone out of their pocket and just glancing down at it, which will seem fairly normal.  It’s all down to how well it works, and nobody really knows that yet.


That's not how one reviewer described the process. 



> You also can’t be too casual about it: I had a lot of problems pulling the iPhone X out of my pocket and having it fail to unlock until Apple clarified that FaceID works best at a distance of 25 to 50 centimeters away from your face, or about 10 to 20 inches. That’s closer than I usually hold my phone when I pull it out of my pocket to check something, which means I had to actively think about holding the iPhone X closer to my face than every other phone I’ve ever used. “You’re holding it wrong” is a joke until it isn’t, and you can definitely hold the iPhone X wrong.





> I also went to the deli across the street, which has a wide variety of lights inside, including a bunch of overhead florescent strips, and FaceID also got significantly more inconsistent.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2017)

And from the WP: 


> In my initial tests, it worked nine times out of 10. *You really have to hold it in front of your face like you’re taking a selfie*.


----------



## tripadvisah (Oct 31, 2017)

editor said:


> Using a pin number is soooo 2014!



It is the most secure method though if you get mugged cos they cant force you to fingerpirnt it or stick it in yer face.. sometimes simple is best.  that's what I use.

The face thing don't sound good.  But then apple is one of those goody goody companies that assumed nobody will do a bad  thing (look at their ads its all lets meet for coffee and we must try those great tacos etc etc) - though bad can = merely private for these companies.  once you've got facial recognition embedded in all the devices, and voice assistants at home we are truly fucked - there is no escape.  the alexa/google home thing/siri thing is another argument, am sure there's a thread here somewhere.  yr nuts if you use any of that biometric/voice shit.


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

You can see Face ID in action here. It's not very reliable


----------



## Fez909 (Nov 1, 2017)

tripadvisah said:


> It is the most secure method though if you get mugged cos they cant force you to fingerpirnt it or stick it in yer face.. sometimes simple is best.  that's what I use.
> 
> The face thing don't sound good.  But then apple is one of those goody goody companies that assumed nobody will do a bad  thing (look at their ads its all lets meet for coffee and we must try those great tacos etc etc) - though bad can = merely private for these companies.  once you've got facial recognition embedded in all the devices, and voice assistants at home we are truly fucked - there is no escape.  the alexa/google home thing/siri thing is another argument, am sure there's a thread here somewhere.  yr nuts if you use any of that biometric/voice shit.


I'm no raging conspiraloon, but fingerprints + facial recognition make me feel a bit..._ugh.
_
I do use fingerprints on my Sony, but I don't like it. The police have my fingerprints anyway, so I guess it's no biggie for me. But still...


----------



## tripadvisah (Nov 1, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> I'm no raging conspiraloon, but fingerprints + facial recognition make me feel a bit..._ugh.
> _
> I do use fingerprints on my Sony, but I don't like it. The police have my fingerprints anyway, so I guess it's no biggie for me. But still...



Fingerprintz is super convenient and I did use it (police don't have mine - AS FAR AS I KNOW  ).  

The facial thing isn't great but I guess they have the software anyway that they can use with cctv so its already here - this is just adding to the issue.  Its the voice thing that gets me and where its all going.  not good.


----------



## tripadvisah (Nov 1, 2017)

editor said:


> You can see Face ID in action here. It's not very reliable




as with all this stuff, its the first time they used it.  the light thing will probably be fixed in the next release.  no big deal.  In fact the idiots that pay 1k for the new X are basically beta testers.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 1, 2017)

editor said:


> That's not how one reviewer described the process.


It’s the first version. Touch ID was a bit hit and miss initially. A software update fixed a few niggles and then version 2 was basically flawless. I have no doubt this will follow a similar pattern...

Whether this is the right direction to go however is another matter. But then again most of the stuff Apple do feels that way initially - remember when we all took the piss out of the first iPad? Laughed at the MacBook Air? Time will tell...


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 1, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It’s the first version. Touch ID was a bit hit and miss initially. A software update fixed a few niggles and then version 2 was basically flawless. I have no doubt this will follow a similar pattern...
> 
> Whether this is the right direction to go however is another matter. But then again most of the stuff Apple do feels that way initially - remember when we all took the piss out of the first iPad? Laughed at the MacBook Air? Time will tell...


Even with the iphone, despite the hyped launch, there were quite a few sceptics. It was too slow, too expensive, no 3g, no copy and paste...etc, it had a number of flaws but it did have plenty of potential. Yes it was over-hyped but there was (and perhaps still is) quite a lot of substance behind the hype.

I was very sceptical about the ipad and laughed it off as "just a big iphone". I was wrong about that too. I don't remember what my thoughts were about the MacBook Air, it was never really on my radar so I barely acknowledged it maybe just seeing it as another expensive (but well designed) Apple product that I would never buy. 

So, what's going to happen with the iPhone X? Time will tell. I suspect that Apple will be able to tap into the large customer base that is mostly happy with their products, have bought into the ecosystem and are brand loyal, as long as they don't majorly fuck it up on execution.

Personally I don't much care for the trend towards "zero bezels" on phones resulting in the fingerprint readers migrating to the back or disappearing altogether. It will be interesting to see how this is refined over the next 12-18 months. If one of the clever bods can perfect a good fingerprint reader that works through the screen, then that would save all the faff around sticking your finger round the back. imo a well functioning Face Id is ok as long as you also have good alternatives available and not as the only way to unlock the phone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 1, 2017)

It's not so much what will happen with the X but will Apple (and other companies) be opting for face recognition over fingerprints in the future.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 1, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> It's not so much what will happen with the X but will Apple (and other companies) be opting for face recognition over fingerprints in the future.


I think Under screen fingerprint scanning is the key here. It's not quite ready yet which is why Samsung and Apple did not include it in their latest handsets, and had to compromise by either moving the scanner round the back (eg Galaxy S8) or replacing it with "easier" face scanning (iPhone X) in order to accomodate the trendy new fangled bezelless designs.

I regard fingerprint scanning as currently the best way to unlock a phone and don't really see FaceID as a replacement for it but as a stop gap until the technology catches up. Eventually I reckon FaceID will be a complimentary alternative on some phones, a bit like how Windows Hello works, whereby you can use pin, fingerprint or facial recognition whichever takes your fancy.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 1, 2017)

The face scanning will really make more sense on a laptop. I imagine we'll be seeing it in Macbooks in the not too distant future.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 1, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The face scanning will really make more sense on a laptop. I imagine we'll be seeing it in Macbooks in the not too distant future.


Indeed, as your face is already in the right position. Holding the phone up to your face does seem to be a possibly a bit inconvenient, so it would be interesting to see how it actually works in real world situations. It may well be perfectly fine especially as you kind of have to face your phone to use it anyway. Maybe the future phones will have more chin orientated facial recognition.


----------



## Fez909 (Nov 1, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> Eventually I reckon FaceID will be a complimentary alternative on some phones


Do you know it's been an option on Android for years? It's on my 2yo Xperia Z5 Compact, for instance. And it's been around for at least 5 years from my quick search.

It's not very good, of course, which is why no one uses it.


----------



## alcopop (Nov 1, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The face scanning will really make more sense on a laptop. I imagine we'll be seeing it in Macbooks in the not too distant future.


It works really well on the Surface 4. And their version isn't anywhere near apples.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 1, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Do you know it's been an option on Android for years? It's on my 2yo Xperia Z5 Compact, for instance. And it's been around for at least 5 years from my quick search.
> 
> It's not very good, of course, which is why no one uses it.


One of Apple's strengths in the past has been to take other people's inventions and make it work properly. A regular complaint from folks who don't much care for Apple is that they have never innovated and don't create anything first. Well there may be something to that, however version 1.0 of most things usually has problems. So while the faceID on the iPhone X may not have been the first ever one on a phone, it may eventually be one of the first that actually works. Like I said, time will tell.


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It’s the first version. Touch ID was a bit hit and miss initially. A software update fixed a few niggles and then version 2 was basically flawless. I have no doubt this will follow a similar pattern....


Maybe you're OK with that, but I'd expect more from a phone costing a thousand pounds.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 1, 2017)

editor said:


> Maybe you're OK with that, but I'd expect more from a phone costing a thousand pounds.


So would I, which is why I won't be buying one.

But this is always the way with Apple - by the time we're looking at the iPhone XII it will all work flawlessly and everyone else will be copying it. As it was with the original iPhone, the iPod, the iPad, the Macbook Air...


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So would I, which is why I won't be buying one.
> 
> But this is always the way with Apple - by the time we're looking at the iPhone XII it will all work flawlessly and everyone else will be copying it.


Your Belief In Apple borders on religious at times.

Truth is, most recently it's been Apple copying innovation from others: i.e. phablets, OLED screen, wireless charging  etc. But I'll concede that the gimmicky animated poop that mimics your expressions is all Apple.


----------



## dervish (Nov 1, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> Personally I don't much care for the trend towards "zero bezels" on phones resulting in the fingerprint readers migrating to the back or disappearing altogether. It will be interesting to see how this is refined over the next 12-18 months. If one of the clever bods can perfect a good fingerprint reader that works through the screen, then that would save all the faff around sticking your finger round the back. imo a well functioning Face Id is ok as long as you also have good alternatives available and not as the only way to unlock the phone.



Faff? I have the G5 and one of the best features is where they put the reader. I have used fingerprint readers extensively on the G5, various ipads and iphones and sony's offerings and having it on the back where your finger naturally rests is by far the easiest and quickest way of authenticating yourself.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 1, 2017)

dervish said:


> Faff? I have the G5 and one of the best features is where they put the reader. I have used fingerprint readers extensively on the G5, various ipads and iphones and sony's offerings and having it on the back where your finger naturally rests is by far the easiest and quickest way of authenticating yourself.


I suppose it's what you get used to. I've not really used a phone with the reader around the back however it doesn't appeal to me especially when the majority of the action is on the front of the phone anyway. As for it being the "quickest and easiest"  ...not sure about that, but anyway, my OP3+ with it's front facing reader is plenty quick enough for me and has been super reliable so far. Horses for courses I guess.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 1, 2017)

editor said:


> Your Belief In Apple borders on religious at times.


Based on nothing more than the past 10 years or so. Look at the products I listed - every single one of them was flawed at launch and we all laughed a bit, but each one redefined it's sector, matured quickly and was then copied by everyone else.



> Truth is, most recently it's been Apple copying innovation from others: i.e. phablets, OLED screen, wireless charging  etc. But I'll concede that the gimmicky animated poop that mimics your expressions is all Apple.


But taking tech that's there but a bit crappy and making it good is what they do.  And yes, the animated emoji nonsense is a gimmick. But it's one that's only really there to showcase the seriously impressive (and yes, innovative) tech lurking underneath.


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Based on nothing more than the past 10 years or so. Look at the products I listed - every single one of them was flawed at launch and we all laughed a bit, but each one redefined it's sector, matured quickly and was then copied by everyone else.


Let's look at their more recent innovations. So you think the Macbook with that silly little Touch Bar has turned into a much-admired, much copied piece of technology?


----------



## elbows (Nov 1, 2017)

Even at the best of times I don't think they actually innovated often, what always differentiated them is that they have different ideas about what mix of compromises and polish to put into their products.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 1, 2017)

editor said:


> Let's look at their more recent innovations. So you think the Macbook with that silly little Touch Bar has turned into a much-admired, much copied piece of technology?


Not yet. The concept is great though - allowing a keyboard to specifically adapt to whatever you're doing at the time. Again, let's see in a couple of years when it's on version 2 and if software developers have found more interesting uses for it. I'd still take it over a touchscreen anyway...


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Not yet. The concept is great though - allowing a keyboard to specifically adapt to whatever you're doing at the time. Again, let's see in a couple of years when it's on version 2 and if software developers have found more interesting uses for it. I'd still take it over a touchscreen anyway...


It's a shit idea and for that reason no one is copying it. Besides, Lenovo did something similar (and equally uncopied in 2004). Why waste valuable key space on a laptop?



> Yet there’s rarely much use for it. At best, it provides a quick way to scroll through lists, such as your Photo Stream. It can also be useful if you’d like to scroll through a video – and it’s great at picking up on such content, activating a scroll bar even when browsing YouTube.
> 
> In other cases, though, it’s clearly a solution searching for a problem. Take typing, for instant. As you input text in Safari, Word, and other apps, the Touch Bar constantly flashes word suggestions. It’s a feature that works well on the iPhone, where typing is often slow and cumbersome.
> 
> ...



You may not like touchscreens or 2-1 convertible laptops, but they're proving hugely popular  and no doubt Apple will copy them eventually and then you can tell me how amazing they are.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 1, 2017)

editor said:


> It's a shit idea and for that reason no one is copying it. Besides, Lenovo did something similar (and equally uncopied in 2004). Why waste valuable key space on a laptop?


It's a great idea, if done properly - it's hardly wasting space if each app you run can have a specific keyboard matching what you're doing. At the moment though it's too small and fiddly - double the height and it may be more useful. But it's all down to how developers implement it.



> You may not like touchscreens or 2-1 convertible laptops, but they're proving hugely popular  and no doubt Apple will copy them eventually and then you can tell me how amazing they are.


Unless they can magically fix the inherent ergonomic shortcomings then I'll still say they're awful.


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's a great idea, if done properly - it's hardly wasting space if each app you run can have a specific keyboard matching what you're doing. At the moment though it's too small and fiddly - double the height and it may be more useful. But it's all down to how developers implement it.


It's been out a year now and I'm still waiting to see anything that makes it worth the considerable outlay and despite your claims, I don't see any companies rushing out to copy this technology (which Lenovo pioneered anyway). 



beesonthewhatnow said:


> Unless they can magically fix the inherent ergonomic shortcomings then I'll still say they're awful.


That's your opinion. Millions will disagree, as rising touchscreen laptop sales testify.

Oh and I'll take issue with your 'inherent ergonomic shortcomings' comment. I use a touchscreen laptop every day and almost all of my interactions are via the screen because it's the easiest, quickest and the most comfortable -  but I always have the option of also navigating via the keys, touchpad or a mouse.

I can't think of any reason I would instinctively elect to interact via the most unergonomic means...


----------



## dervish (Nov 1, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> I suppose it's what you get used to. I've not really used a phone with the reader around the back however it doesn't appeal to me especially when the majority of the action is on the front of the phone anyway. As for it being the "quickest and easiest"  ...not sure about that, but anyway, my OP3+ with it's front facing reader is plenty quick enough for me and has been super reliable so far. Horses for courses I guess.



The reader being at the back when the "action" is at the front is kinda the point, it's exactly where your finger is, the phone is unlocked as soon as you pick it up, making it very easy, and quick to do. As you haven't actually used one I'm not sure the rolleyes are justified, maybe you should try using it before dismissing other opinions.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 1, 2017)

dervish said:


> The reader being at the back when the "action" is at the front is kinda the point, it's exactly where your finger is, the phone is unlocked as soon as you pick it up, making it very easy, and quick to do.


Your fingers/thumbS are at the front anyway during use anyway because that's where 99% of the interaction is with the phone. Also you can see where it is and you can unlock the phone without picking it up which I do quite often when the phone is laid on my desk for example.



dervish said:


> As you haven't actually used one I'm not sure the rolleyes are justified, maybe you should try using it before dismissing other opinions.


Wow, some people are a bit sensitive. For starters I wasn't dismissing other opinions, all I said was that a fingerprint sensor at the back doesn't appeal to me and it does seem like a faff. If you prefer it and find it to be the mutts nuts then good for you. I may change my mind when I actually get to use it but for the moment I'm happy with the front fingerprint reader which is plenty quick and convenient.

Secondly, this... --->  is NOT rolleyes, this --->  IS rolleyes.


----------



## Mojofilter (Nov 1, 2017)

dervish said:


> Faff? I have the G5 and one of the best features is where they put the reader. I have used fingerprint readers extensively on the G5, various ipads and iphones and sony's offerings and having it on the back where your finger naturally rests is by far the easiest and quickest way of authenticating yourself.



Assuming the G5 has it in the same place as the Nexus 6P then I absolutely agree with this.
On the back, in the middle and exactly where your finger ends up resting anyway.

Why Apple can’t put the sensor there is completely beyond me.


----------



## dervish (Nov 1, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> Your fingers/thumbS are at the front anyway during use anyway because that's where 99% of the interaction is with the phone. Also you can see where it is and you can unlock the phone without picking it up which I do quite often when the phone is laid on my desk for example.



What? All of them? How are you holding your phone?


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 1, 2017)

dervish said:


> What? All of them? How are you holding your phone?


Yeah, all of them, especially when I'm doing a "Bobby Crush" on a piano app...



...anyway, I willing to put a fiver on the next generation of phones moving away from the fingerprint readers at the back and that they only put them there in the first place to make room at the front and reduce bezels not because that's the "natural" place for them (well that's my theory anyway). There's already rumours that the next Galaxy won't have a fingerprint reader at the back, and anyway where the S8 currently has it is a bit of a numpty place imo being right next to the camera lens...but what do I know, eh?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 1, 2017)

It is a numpty place on the S8. Solved with a case, but shouldn't need it. Without a case there is nothing tactile to show your not smudging the finger lenses. My lives in a case anyway, but still...

If they can get fingerprint readers built in to the screen that will be cool (and make replacement screens even more money!). In the meantime for the times when moving my finger to the back isn't convenient then the retina scanner does the job, but I wouldnt want to use it all the time.


----------



## paolo (Nov 1, 2017)

So you _have_ to hold it up, vertically, for Face ID to work?

_Really ?_


----------



## alcopop (Nov 1, 2017)

paolo said:


> So you _have_ to hold it up, vertically, for Face ID to work?
> 
> _Really ?_


No, you don't


----------



## souljacker (Nov 1, 2017)

I've got a 6p and an iphone 7 and without a shadow of a doubt, the 6Ps fingerprint reader is in by far the best place. It also works 100% of the time whereas the apple one fails around 1 in 5 times. 

Also, just to join in the touchscreen argument, I've got a touchscreen on my work laptop and the only time I ever use it is to 'draw' digital signatures on documents. The rest of the time it is a completely pointless gimmick.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 1, 2017)

paolo said:


> So you _have_ to hold it up, vertically, for Face ID to work?
> 
> _Really ?_





alcopop said:


> No, you don't



So, can someone explain to me how its possible to unlock the phone without tapping in a passcode, if the phone it laying flat on a desk or sofa or something, and the camera is not pointing  at your face?


----------



## paolo (Nov 1, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> So, can someone explain to me how its possible to unlock the phone without tapping in a passcode, if the phone it laying flat on a desk or sofa or something, and the camera is not pointing  at your face?



Pointing at your face doesn’t mean holding it up right in front of you. The Independent’s review has a video showing this.

It looks like distance might be a key factor. Apparently Apple told one reviewer that it works best at 25-50cm.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 1, 2017)

paolo said:


> Pointing at your face doesn’t mean holding it up right in front of you.
> 
> It looks like distance might be a key factor. Apparently Apple told one reviewer that it works best at 25-50cm.



I'm reading this as, possibly not able to unlock unless there's some degree of camera-pointing-at face going on. Which, as I often unlock my phone while its camera is pointing nowhere near my face, means it will need picking up at least.


----------



## paolo (Nov 1, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm reading this as, possibly not able to unlock unless there's some degree of camera-pointing-at face going on. Which, as I often unlock my phone while its camera is pointing nowhere near my face, means it will need picking up at least.



I’m assuming the same, if only because (again assuming) it’s not scanning without lift-to-wake. Or maybe just a tap on the screen would work if one happened to be bearing right down on it.

It would be good if one of the reviews gets into this kind of detail.


----------



## paolo (Nov 1, 2017)

A little more detail, from Daring Fireball:

“If raise-to-wake kicks in and turns on the display, all you need to do is swipe up from the bottom. Don’t wait for the lock icon to change — don’t even worry about it. Just swipe up. If raise-to-wake hasn’t kicked in, and you’re holding your iPhone X in your hand with the display off, just tap the screen near the bottom and immediately swipe up. The best way to use Face ID is to pretend it isn’t even there, and just swipe up from the home indicator.

Tapping the screen to wake the display is one of my favorite features so far. There’s really no reason to use the side button to wake the phone.”


----------



## editor (Nov 1, 2017)

paolo said:


> A little more detail, from Daring Fireball:
> 
> “If raise-to-wake kicks in and turns on the display, all you need to do is swipe up from the bottom. Don’t wait for the lock icon to change — don’t even worry about it. Just swipe up. If raise-to-wake hasn’t kicked in, and you’re holding your iPhone X in your hand with the display off, just tap the screen near the bottom and immediately swipe up. The best way to use Face ID is to pretend it isn’t even there, and just swipe up from the home indicator.
> 
> Tapping the screen to wake the display is one of my favorite features so far. There’s really no reason to use the side button to wake the phone.”


Written by the biggest Apple fanboy on the universe. I can't take any of his reviews seriously anymore.

Tap to wake has been on Android for bloody years too.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 1, 2017)

Once I get my hands on one (13th-20th Nov, not willy waving, geniunally happy to try stuff out that you guys want to challenge) I'll tell you how good it is or not and angles etc. If there's any specific 'tests' you guys want me to try out that reviewers aren't doing, let me know. I'll give a full 7 day day honest opinion of what I've liked and whats driving me nuts, but happy to try stuff you guys suggest. I'm most interested to see how the massively illuminated spar (the shop not somewhere I get pampered) for example deals with face id when paying!

I won't get into it now, but I'll attempt to justify the cost also, and why I was prepared to drop almost £1k on a phoneand if it was justified or of I've just been a bit of a twat.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 1, 2017)

This could be an interesting alternative, and cheaper than an iPhone X...


----------



## Fez909 (Nov 2, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Once I get my hands on one (13th-20th Nov, not willy waving, geniunally happy to try stuff out that you guys want to challenge) I'll tell you how good it is or not and angles etc. If there's any specific 'tests' you guys want me to try out that reviewers aren't doing, let me know. I'll give a full 7 day day honest opinion of what I've liked and whats driving me nuts, but happy to try stuff you guys suggest. I'm most interested to see how the massively illuminated spar (the shop not somewhere I get pampered) for example deals with face id when paying!
> 
> I won't get into it now, but I'll attempt to justify the cost also, and why I was prepared to drop almost £1k on a phoneand if it was justified or of I've just been a bit of a twat.


Concrete drop test, please 

Then submerged in the bath test 

RE: fingerprint scanners. I think Sony have got it right on the Xperia phones. It's on the side of the device, built into the power button. My thumb naturally rests there when I'm holding the phone, so it's very easy to unlock.

When I have my phone flat on a table, it's a pain/impossible, so I do tap to wake then enter the pin.

All pretty smooth, IMO.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Once I get my hands on one (13th-20th Nov, not willy waving, geniunally happy to try stuff out that you guys want to challenge) I'll tell you how good it is or not and angles etc. If there's any specific 'tests' you guys want me to try out that reviewers aren't doing, let me know. I'll give a full 7 day day honest opinion of what I've liked and whats driving me nuts, but happy to try stuff you guys suggest. I'm most interested to see how the massively illuminated spar (the shop not somewhere I get pampered) for example deals with face id when paying!
> 
> I won't get into it now, but I'll attempt to justify the cost also, and why I was prepared to drop almost £1k on a phoneand if it was justified or of I've just been a bit of a twat.


Looks like you'll be getting a very average battery life for your immense outlay.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 2, 2017)

editor said:


> Looks like you'll be getting a very average battery life for your immense outlay.



Can’t be any worse than my 6 which no longer lasts a full day. I know why I ended up with a fucked battery thou. Using Waze app daily for pretty much 3 years on my daily commutes. 

Will replace before I hand it down to my mother.

Then probably use her old 5 as a sat nav device or just get a dedicated tomtom at some point.


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2017)

For anyone who doesn’t want to wade through loads of reviews, Samuel Gibbs in the Guardian has a good round up of the more notable points:

iPhone X review roundup: Face ID works well but notch irritates some


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 3, 2017)




----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2017)

Very fair review that. That camera lump is fugly. He's right about the lack of the headphone socket. The IR projector looks well sci fi for Face ID.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 3, 2017)

editor said:


> Very fair review that. That camera lump is fugly. He's right about the lack of the headphone socket. The IR projector looks well sci fi for Face ID.


It did seem to be a fairly balanced review. Hasn't persuaded me to buy one though.


----------



## paolo (Nov 3, 2017)

I was very against the dropping of the headphone socket. My current phone has one. It seemed a needless minimisation on Apple’s part.

But now, I never use the socket - ever.

I bought some EarPods, and later, a pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones.

It’s been a revelation. I’ll never go back to wires. Not to say they shouldn’t have kept the socket for people-not-like-me, but I’ll not be doing wired ever again. And not because I’m forced to. Completely by choice.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2017)

paolo said:


> I bought some EarPods, and later, a pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones.


How much did that lot cost you?


----------



## paolo (Nov 3, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> It did seem to be a fairly balanced review. Hasn't persuaded me to buy one though.



Nilay Patel is solid. I like it, but it’s a lot of money. I’ll stick with my SE for now.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 3, 2017)

From those Apple lovers at the Register 

OK, we admit it. Under the hood, the iPhone X is a feat of engineering


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

In another review I've seen - comparing with the Google Pixel 2, for the front facing camera, at least, is markedly better than the iPhone X. The difference in detail stands out a mile. It's the first time I've see such a notable difference between flagship premium priced phones.

(For better or worse, I'm "all in" on the Apple ecosystem - changing would mean losing alot of things I take for granted.)

If I was choosing a phone for the first time, I'd be comparing Apple with Google. I don't want an OS fucked around with by a hardware manufacturer, and I'd want software updates that the software developer makes available, rather than at the whim of a licensee. Android is horribly fragmented as a result. So many phones, so many versions. Android, in broad deployment terms, is a mess. But (as and when Google starts buying displays from Samsung, rather than shoddy LG), there's a some serious competition. No crapware, awesome hardware.

There's a pill to swallow in either camp. For Android...  Google's business is predicated on wanting your data. It's their stated business model, not a conspiraloon theory. But... most people don't care about these things. Tesco's Clubcard is the most successful retail loyalty scheme in the world (disclosure: I worked on it once).

Google is following in Clubcard footsteps. Give people something good, be honest about what you rinse, and they'll hand their data back. Google's winning with this. Apple are cornered into not doing data. They have to sell phones, every single year, to make their numbers. I think they'll succeed for the foreseeable, but the world - and it's personal data - belongs to Google.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

paolo said:


> If I was choosing a phone for the first time, I'd be comparing Apple with Google. I don't want an OS fucked around with by a hardware manufacturer, and I'd want software updates that the software developer makes available, rather than at the whim of a licensee. Android is horribly fragmented as a result. So many phones, so many versions. Android, in broad deployment terms, is a mess. But (as and when Google starts buying displays from Samsung, rather than shoddy LG), there's a some serious competition. No crapware, awesome hardware.


None of that really affects users in the slightest and 'crapware' is very rare on decent phones now. Because the OS is so customisable, I can quickly get different phones to loo and feel exactly as I want them with little effort.

Apple also suck in shitloads of your data too, btw.

Oh and if anyone is getting the X, get a case on it quick as it seems to be particularly fragile.









Behold: The first smashed iPhone X


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 4, 2017)

Yep. Glass backs are a fucking stupid idea and always will be.


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

I've managed to smash about four phones. 

My first, ten years ago, Apple just gave me a new phone. More recently - it included a full water dunk - Apple charged me half price (ouch... £250) and gave me a new phone.

Even more recently, I used iMend. A bloke turned up at work and did it for £50 in the car park. (Classy! Cheap. Slightly shit. It's a bit blue I reckon)

Hate putting them in cases still. Phones in cases are fugly. But the repair cost is eye watering when it bounces. The iPhone X apparently is £300 for the full (you've killed it mate, you really have) drop. Ouch.


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep. Glass backs are a fucking stupid idea and always will be.



Apparently to do with the inductive charging thing. I'm really not sold.

When did anyone ever say "I want a really slow way of charging my phone, but slightly more conveniently" ?

Nobody said this.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 4, 2017)

paolo said:


> Apparently to do with the inductive charging thing. I'm really not sold.
> 
> When did anyone ever say "I want a really slow way of charging my phone, but slightly more conveniently" ?
> 
> Nobody said this.


The concept is sound. Plonk your device on a table, have it charge. Great.

Except like so many things battery related the tech and associated implementation just isn’t there yet.


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The concept is sound. Plonk your device on a table, have it charge. Great.
> 
> Except like so many things battery related the tech and associated implementation just isn’t there yet.



Yeah. 

I could get it if - in certain circumstances - it was a different propostion. Say a biig mat. So big it just becomes part of your desk. Or at events (media office, ooh get me) you just chuck your 'stuff' in the 'mat area'.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 4, 2017)

paolo said:


> Yeah.
> 
> I could get it if - in certain circumstances - it was a different propostion. Say a biig mat. So big it just becomes part of your desk. Or at events (media office, ooh get me) you just chuck your 'stuff' in the 'mat area'.


And it was as quick as a normal charger. And didn’t make the phone fragile. Etc etc.

It’ll get there I’m sure, but for now it involves too many compromises.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The concept is sound. Plonk your device on a table, have it charge. Great.
> 
> Except like so many things battery related the tech and associated implementation just isn’t there yet.


Have you ever actually used one regularly? It's works absolutely fine with my Samsung S7, and sure is easier than fiddling about with USB cables. It's excellent technology.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep. Glass backs are a fucking stupid idea and always will be.


Wireless charging works with plastic backs too (like my Palm Pre). I've never been a fan of glass backs. They're slippery to hold and crack way too easy.


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> And it was as quick as a normal charger. And didn’t make the phone fragile. Etc etc.
> 
> It’ll get there I’m sure, but for now it involves too many compromises.



My sceptism comes from my knowledge of Physics. I got a B grade at O'Level*.

This is old school tech, bludgeoned on to new device. 

* I got an A, but don't want to be showy with irrelevant exams I took. I mean, look at me now.


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

...


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

paolo said:


> These are all the phones. Post more! Keep posting!



Don't blame the messenger: 



> No, some Apple fans will have a bad day today because the* iPhone X is the most fragile iPhone to date*, and one wrong move can result in catastrophe.
> Behold: The first smashed iPhone X


----------



## Gromit (Nov 4, 2017)

Bring back Steve Jobs says I.


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

editor said:


> Don't blame the messenger:



Keep posting! You can do it!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 4, 2017)

Whoever thought of making phones dead slippery deserves a slap!


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Whoever thought of making phones dead slippery deserves a slap!


I had a play on the Galaxy Note 8 yesterday. It truly is a beautiful piece of tech, but just like the iPhone X you'd be mad as a box of Kermits not to stick a case on it - and then you instantly lose a great chunk of what makes the thing so visually appealing.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 4, 2017)

editor said:


> I had a play on the Galaxy Note 8 yesterday. It truly is a beautiful piece of tech, but just like the iPhone X you'd be mad as a box of Kermits not to stick a case on it - and then you instantly lose a great chunk of what makes the thing so visually appealing.


 
Tbf to Samsung on this they do some very minimalist cases that don't get in the way of the edge displays at all. Much better then third party ones if you aren't after major protection.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Tbf to Samsung on this they do some very minimalist cases that don't get in the way of the edge displays at all. Much better then third party ones if you aren't after major protection.


Minimalistic case surely = minimalistic protection!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 4, 2017)

editor said:


> Minimalistic case surely = minimalistic protection!



Yes. It's all about how much you need. You do get some and most importantly is a flip case to protect against things like keys. I had an armoured case on my Note 4 and moving to an S8 with a slimmer case I had to check I had my phone a few times!


----------



## Gromit (Nov 4, 2017)

editor said:


> I had a play on the Galaxy Note 8 yesterday. It truly is a beautiful piece of tech, but just like the iPhone X you'd be mad as a box of Kermits not to stick a case on it - and then you instantly lose a great chunk of what makes the thing so visually appealing.


To be honest I don't know why they spend any design dollars on how a phone looks, how slim it is etc etc when you only end up having to wrap the phone in a case so it becomes irrelevant. Why don't they just sell you a mere skeletal frame and include a starter case?


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

Gromit said:


> To be honest I don't know why they spend any design dollars on how a phone looks, how slim it is etc etc when you only end up having to wrap the phone in a case so it becomes irrelevant. Why don't they just sell you a mere skeletal frame and include a starter case?



There's purists like me who never put a case on, and then bleed money for the drops. I think I'm a minority though.

You have a point - maybe - why not just sell phones with the 'case' built in? Make it droppable. I guess we like shiny things.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 4, 2017)

paolo said:


> There's purists like me who never put a case on, and then bleed money for the drops. I think I'm a minority though.
> 
> You have a point - maybe - why not just sell phones with the 'case' built in? Make it droppable. I guess we like shiny things.



Tbf I think the outer shell on these things is so thin it would make little difference.


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Tbf I think the outer shell on these things is so thin it would make little difference.



That's what I keep telling myself, on every smashed screen.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 4, 2017)

It's not just the drops for me. No matter how scratch proof they claim it is, it would still look knackered in a few months without one.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 4, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep. Glass backs are a fucking stupid idea and always will be.



not if you charging 200+ to replace it


----------



## cybershot (Nov 5, 2017)




----------



## cybershot (Nov 5, 2017)

Apple must be thinking why didn’t we just think of animojikaroke ourselves.

The hashtag alone is worth more than any ad campaign they’ve done.

And I really really didn’t want to get drawn into them!


----------



## alcopop (Nov 5, 2017)

It’s probably worth more to them as a bottom up consumer led thing.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 5, 2017)

iPhone's business model is:
1. Provide desirable hardware, and charge heavy for it. 
2. Say look developers, look how many cash rich suckers bought our phone. 
3. Take a heavy cut off of developers selling software for iPhone. 

Used to be hardly anyone created for Android as iTunes was the place to make your dosh. 
I think that might eventually completely reverse positions if the iPhoneX is any example of how Apple are losing it. It's no more desirable than any other phone now.


----------



## elbows (Nov 5, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Used to be hardly anyone created for Android as iTunes was the place to make your dosh.
> I think that might eventually completely reverse positions if the iPhoneX is any example of how Apple are losing it. It's no more desirable than any other phone now.



I used to moan about the quality of android apps but there was never really a time when developers were totally shunning android en masse.

Reduced desirability of iPhones compared to other phones doesn't kill off the traditional pluses of the app store - eg how likely iOS users are to spend money in the store. I know you say 'eventually' but such an eventuality is so far off that I don't think the iPhone X is going to be part of this story, not based on apparent demand so far. Bit early to be sure though, although any discussion of developers in general is missing out on variations between different segments (eg type of app such as games, the monetisation model used) and whether the app is in a niche that makes things like the iPad part of the story.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2017)

It's a £1,000 smash!



The iPhone X is the most fragile iPhone ever built


----------



## cybershot (Nov 7, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Once I get my hands on one (13th-20th Nov, not willy waving, geniunally happy to try stuff out that you guys want to challenge) I'll tell you how good it is or not and angles etc. If there's any specific 'tests' you guys want me to try out that reviewers aren't doing, let me know. I'll give a full 7 day day honest opinion of what I've liked and whats driving me nuts, but happy to try stuff you guys suggest. I'm most interested to see how the massively illuminated spar (the shop not somewhere I get pampered) for example deals with face id when paying!
> 
> I won't get into it now, but I'll attempt to justify the cost also, and why I was prepared to drop almost £1k on a phoneand if it was justified or of I've just been a bit of a twat.



I guess enough people managed to grab on launch day by queuing as it's being delivered tomorrow! 

Drop test first?


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

I had a quick look at an X tonight. The reviewers are right about the notch.

I *hated* it in a all photos. But weirdly it seemed to vanish from my perspective the moment I started using it.

The display is fab. Samsung OLED - best there is - but not set to super intense colour. I guess there’ll be some wrangling amongst phone makers using OLED - how popping do you go? For UI elements, popping looks great, but for photos and video - more a judgement call.

For me the X is still too big. I use my phone one handed. I’ve dropped and smashed twice in two years. The X feel like a far bigger risk, and it has a far bigger repair bill, if you don’t take the non-trivial £200 AppleCare cover.

But oh my, as iPhones go, it’s the shizzle.


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 8, 2017)

Really busy at work 

So not much time to play.

Was really impressed that my iPhone 6 detected I was setting up a new iPhone, which I guess is down to NFC stuff. I just had to scan an image on the X with my 6 and it set my AppleID etc up for me after confirming the unlock code and transferred everything that I wanted it too. (I opted to set up as a new iPhone thou rather than let it bring all the shite down, which I may regret later because I'm going to have to customise iOS again to get rid of some of the annoying quirks like keypad/unlock sounds and my keyboard shortcuts)

EDIT: It's transferred my keyboard shortcuts, such as a@ which puts in my full email address, so that's good. Just got to work out what it didn't, I guess just iOS customisation that are not stored in iCloud.

Unlocking the phone on the desk with face id unless it's totally infront of you is a no go. You however don't need to move the phone, it will present you with the unlock code option. Obviously nowhere near as quick as doing a fingerprint.

When you do use faceid thou, it's pretty quick, and has unlocked every time so far.

The camera pokes out a bit too much, you can't lie it down flat on the back, which feels weird when you move it across desk.

Doesn't really take long to forget about the home button at all. It's superbly simple to get back home/switch apps and get to the control centre.

Absolutely petrified of dropping it already, case is set to arrive as well today!

Screen is stunning! Just comparing it next to my iPhone 6 the difference is substantial.

EDIT: Oh it's heavier than I was expecting it to be too!


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

paolo said:


> .



Got sucked in. There’s a waiting list, but ways round it.

Here’s a quick review:

- FaceId, so far, is so stupidly good I keep thinking it’s not enabled. Surely the phone can’t be unlocked faster than my fingerprint? Oh yes, it totally is.

- It’s scarily slippy. I had a nice and grippy SE. This just feels like a bad repair bill waiting to happen. I hate cases. May well get the not-exactly-cheap AppleCare to avoid £500 back smash repair bill. And yep, Apple person said as much in the shop. Drop this and you’ll feel (half) the pain of buying it.

Too soon to give other opinions, except to say, this is *not* a one handed on-the-bus phone.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2017)

cybershot said:


> The camera pokes out a bit too much, you can't lie it down flat on the back, which feels weird when you move it across desk.


Steve Jobs would reach tornado speed grave-spinning if he saw that fugly camera bulge!

Thanks for the updates.


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

editor said:


> Steve Jobs would reach tornado speed grave-spinning if he saw that fugly camera bulge!
> 
> Thanks for the updates.



Oh indeed. The camera bulge is, gah, well, gah.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 8, 2017)

paolo said:


> Got sucked in. There’s a waiting list, but ways round it.
> 
> Here’s a quick review:
> 
> ...



I've got a case coming, and it's the first time I've purchased a full wrap around case, it's also fairly bulky, so it's going to certainly take the design appeal of the phone away. The case is £40 too. Which is almost 25% of the AppleCare fee. AppleCare seems expensive but when you weigh up how much the solid cases are, some over £50 and Apple leather ones close to £200 it does seem to make more sense to just get AppleCare and let it shine in all it's glory.

Touch wood, since my first smartphone back in in 2010, which is the only one i've dropped, and that was into the toilet!! but it survived. Everything has has stayed smash free. This is bound to be where it goes wrong.

Also mentioned it above in an edit, but there's been a few posts since now. It's heavier than I was expecting, and it has transferred my keyboard shortcuts. Was well impressed with the setup process once my 6 detected I was setting up a new phone.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 8, 2017)

The back is a fingerprint magnet!

I'll stop with silly little posts now and try and do a more in depth post in a weeks time. 

Going to hit the Severn Valley Railway on Saturday, as well as the cliff train in Bridgenorth, so should give a good chance to properly test the camera.

Will prob get the normal train there as well so I can campare the trainline app usage with face id, and how much of a pain using face id is in public spaces for getting access through train stations and using Apply Pay!


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2017)

cybershot said:


> The back is a fingerprint magnet!
> 
> I'll stop with silly little posts now and try and do a more in depth post in a weeks time.
> 
> ...


Fancy knocking together a wee review I could stick on my tech site?


----------



## cybershot (Nov 8, 2017)

editor said:


> Fancy knocking together a wee review I could stick on my tech site?



Sure, Fancy getting me a wireless charging pad to add to it? 

I don't intend to go into all the crap other tech sites have thou, for example I won't be going into animojis at all. Will purely be an average joe bloggs using their phone throughout the day doing the stuff you'd generally need to do. The major sell for me other than being in the market for a new phone, was the camera! 

I will talk about the elephant in the room (the price) however and why I dropped it on it, time will tell if it was a bad decision or not.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Sure, Fancy getting me a wireless charging pad to add to it?
> 
> I don't intend to go into all the crap other tech sites have thou, for example I won't be going into animojis at all. Will purely be an average joe bloggs using their phone throughout the day doing the stuff you'd generally need to do. The major sell for me other than being in the market for a new phone, was the camera!
> 
> I will talk about the elephant in the room (the price) however and why I dropped it on it, time will tell if it was a bad decision or not.


That would be ace - cheers!


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

cybershot said:


> The back is a fingerprint magnet!
> 
> I'll stop with silly little posts now and try and do a more in depth post in a weeks time.
> 
> ...



Did you do a restore from iCloud? Normally it’s really quick, but this is taking aages.

I don’t even know how to reboot. All the button things have changed.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 8, 2017)

paolo said:


> Did you do a restore from iCloud? Normally it’s really quick, but this is taking aages.
> 
> I don’t even know how to reboot. All the button things have changed.



No I choose to setup as a new iPhone. Could be down to the speed of the wireless you're on?

Hold down all 3 side buttons. Don't blame me if you manage to brick it thou!

I've noticed for force close an app you now have to hold it down for a sec and wait for the red x to appear, seems a backwards step. Also no option to display the battery % thanks to the notch, there's not enough room, it does show the % when you swipe down to bring control centre down. So a couple more things that take longer to do than they did before!


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

I figured the reboot. I guess it’s such a rare need they de-prioritised it in UI terms.

Phone is showing 4G. Maybe it wants WiFi to load the old stuff?

--- eta

Once on wifi, all reloaded.

And so far still, Faceid is gobsmacking. On the Verge, Nilay Patel said it's like having an unlocked phone. Yup. I had to type a passcode when I force rebooted, but outside of that... ping. It knows me.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 8, 2017)

My one is coming this Friday -anyone bothered with insurance or Apple Care?
I don’t think I’ll bother, not bought insurance for a phone since the Nokia 3210.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 8, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> My one is coming this Friday -anyone bothered with insurance or Apple Care?
> I don’t think I’ll bother, not bought insurance for a phone since the Nokia 3210.



Can be worth checking your house insurance as a cheaper way to do it...


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> My one is coming this Friday -anyone bothered with insurance or Apple Care?
> I don’t think I’ll bother, not bought insurance for a phone since the Nokia 3210.



AppleCare is only for smashes. Otherwise, snooze you lose, as is the way these days.

You can add AppleCare afterwards, if you think it’s droppable and hate cases (me).

Naked and clumsy was never cheap, but on this it’s eye watering


----------



## Gromit (Nov 8, 2017)

If you have AppleCare+, it includes two incidents of accidental damage coverage. Each incident has an excess fee that you can apply towards screen repair. If you don’t have AppleCare+, your costs will vary.

You have to pay for the option to still have to pay them if your screen breaks and pay them even more if it breaks more than twice. 

I would argue that a phone is more than likely to be dropped occasionally and any phone that can't handle that isn't fit for purpose. Glass phone... asking for trouble.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 8, 2017)

Interestingly, the last glass phone I purchased was an iPhone.
Had it for 3 years-ish (before Nexus 5) and that never cracked.

I remembered the marketing fear around at the time and figured it must had been Apple/ an insurance push...they work like that...and at £200 for Apple care, they need to sell fear harder imo.

But am worried about how shock proof that front camera is, not too bothered about getting mugged.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 8, 2017)

Face Id working well in the dark and without my specs on, but not 100% of the time.

Already turned off raise to wake and tap to wake. I can see the appeal but just because I pick up my phone doesn’t mean I want the screen to activate and ultimately unlock because I end up looking at it. 

Same with tap to wake. I just might want to move it. Not unlock it, and didn’t like the idea that every few steps I’m probably waking the screen in my pocket. This does mean I now have to press the side button to wake phone up, but that’s fine by me. 

3.5mm adapter works fine, as do the lightning ear pods, but now I need to charge.....


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Face Id working well in the dark and without my specs on, but not 100% of the time.
> 
> Already turned off raise to wake and tap to wake. I can see the appeal but just because I pick up my phone doesn’t mean I want the screen to activate and ultimately unlock because I end up looking at it.
> 
> ...


I had tap to wake on my old Sony phone. Handy, but like a small child, prone to waking up at the wrong time.


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

Anyone who's geeky enough (me) to want to see what the edge cases of FaceID are... these guys rinsed it. It's 10 minutes of tests, so you may indeed tldw.


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2017)

OMFG. It just tried it after turning all the lights off. Still works.

Animojis are genuinely funny. I’ve been bothering friends all night:

I reckon, like cat pictures, they’ll be really tedious in - ummm - 2 months.

I so want to post one. You so don’t want it.


----------



## paolo (Nov 9, 2017)

Time to hide behind the sofa... scared... I was...


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 9, 2017)

paolo said:


> Time to hide behind the sofa... scared... I was...




That’s pretty shit.
Am paranoid now.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 9, 2017)

Stanley Edwards said:


> Yes. But why?





paolo said:


> Time to hide behind the sofa... scared... I was...




Pretty impressive. Shame his face ID broke otherwise was onto an amazing result. Also we don’t know at which point it broke which is a shame. Could have been the very first drop in the case!!!

Despite the favoursome result it won’t be making me any less petrified of dropping it. Will certainly be one of those heart in the mouth moments as you watch it drop and pick it up, heart racing, praying.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 9, 2017)

Just buy a case. Problem solved.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just buy a case. Problem solved.


Ah, the 'don't criticise the design, just keep on spending more money' approach. The Apple way!

If I was spending a thousand fucking quid or more on a phone, I'd like it to be _at least _as robust as cheaper models. And adding a case isn't really 'solving' the problem. It's cladding a well designed object in ugly rubber/plastic.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 9, 2017)

Cheap faux leather back case for a fiver on Ebay and a film screen protector on the front for my 7 plus. I would be constantly paranoid of dropping it without them.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

I'm not convinced of the need for a screen protector 

Does Your Smartphone Really Need a Screen Protector?


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 9, 2017)

been seeing the Mous case marketed everywhere - interesting review.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 9, 2017)

editor said:


> I'm not convinced of the need for a screen protector
> 
> Does Your Smartphone Really Need a Screen Protector?



Sorry to duplicate another vid from the same reviewer but thought this was interesting.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 9, 2017)

editor said:


> Ah, the 'don't criticise the design, just keep on spending more money' approach. The Apple way!


Well, it's more a criticism of _all_ smartphones really. By design they need a big sheet of glass on the front. Glass breaks, no matter what spin they put on the latest gorilla/whatever name they have for it now products. Putting it on the back just doubles the risk.

So, I'd rather the manufactures stopped obsessing about all the sleek looking design bollocks and made them more durable. Something fragile but pretty isn't really fit for purpose as an everyday, mobile device. Until then, a case is about the best option.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 9, 2017)

Used Face ID for Apple Pay in the brightly lit Spar just. No problem.

Fully charged overnight, unplugged at about 7:25 this morning. Not heavy usage, have checked & used twitter, facebook, took a few photos, a bit of web browsing, nothing taxing. 95% battery remaining.

Photo attached, did nothing special, just took the photo, was hoping it would be better to be honest. Not really had chance to play with the camera properly and would perhaps have took some more scenery around here, but was carrying lunch! 

EDIT: Looks like Urbs compresses the photo as original is 1.4Mb


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 9, 2017)

editor said:


> Ah, the 'don't criticise the design, just keep on spending more money' approach. The Apple way!
> 
> If I was spending a thousand fucking quid or more on a phone, I'd like it to be _at least _as robust as cheaper models. And adding a case isn't really 'solving' the problem. It's cladding a well designed object in ugly rubber/plastic.



Well the S8 is still an experience bit of kit, at least for me and feels fragile as well as being bloody slippery. Not just an Apple problem. 



editor said:


> I'm not convinced of the need for a screen protector
> 
> Does Your Smartphone Really Need a Screen Protector?



I really don't like the feel of them, but have certainly managed small scratches in a screen over the life time of phones, despite using a flip case. I'd hate to imagine what they'd be like if I didn't.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Well the S8 is still an experience bit of kit, at least for me and feels fragile as well as being bloody slippery. Not just an Apple problem.
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't like the feel of them, but have certainly managed small scratches in a screen over the life time of phones, despite using a flip case. I'd hate to imagine what they'd be like if I didn't.


It's a problem with most phones but once you add in the thousand pound price tag, it's reasonable to have some expectations that it won't turn out to be the most fragile version of that phone ever.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, it's more a criticism of _all_ smartphones really. By design they need a big sheet of glass on the front. Glass breaks, no matter what spin they put on the latest gorilla/whatever name they have for it now products. Putting it on the back just doubles the risk.
> 
> So, I'd rather the manufactures stopped obsessing about all the sleek looking design bollocks and made them more durable. Something fragile but pretty isn't really fit for purpose as an everyday, mobile device. Until then, a case is about the best option.


I'd prefer a phone that was slightly fatter and slightly heavier because of a far heftier battery and built a lot more robustly. You don't _need_ glass on the back, so I'd get rid of that too.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 9, 2017)

Portrait mode struggling with my glasses at arms length!  the sides of them end up added to the blurred background. I need longer arms, or the in focus section could do with being adjustable.

Can't upload the pics, apparently filesize is too big! (3.5Mb)

Battery now at 91% after mucking around with camera at lunch. 4% used in 40 minutes.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Portrait mode struggling with my glasses at arms length!  the sides of them end up added to the blurred background. I need longer arms, or the in focus section could do with being adjustable.
> 
> Can't upload the pics, apparently filesize is too big! (1.3Mb and 1.5Mb).


Can't you resize them in the phone?


----------



## cybershot (Nov 9, 2017)

editor said:


> Can't you resize them in the phone?



Damn it you beat me to it before I realised I was looking at the wrong files  on my PC after downloading from iCloud. They are 3.5Mb.

I'll resize them a bit, just realised got a meeting in 15 mins that I haven't prepped for!


----------



## cybershot (Nov 9, 2017)

50% smaller than the original size due to forum file size limits, taken with front facing camera using portrait mode in normal light setting.

From side on you can see how my specs fall into the blurred area, and I have to go quite far back (quite a stretch for my arms) to get in without having them blurred. Not quite sure why I look like I have a wonky eye.

The front facing camera quality is fantastic thou. Considerably noticeably better than the iPhone 6 by a long shot. Appreciate there's been 2 (3 if you include the 8) models since.

The file sizes of portrait mode photos are going to eat into iCloud storage space if you're cheap and don't want to pay 80p a month for 50GB or are too lazy to offload into other cloud based storage solutions.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2017)

cybershot said:


> 50% smaller than the original size due to forum file size limits, taken with front facing camera using portrait mode in normal light setting.
> 
> From side on you can see how my specs fall into the blurred area, and I have to go quite far back (quite a stretch for my arms) to get in without having them blurred. Not quite sure why I look like I have a wonky eye.
> 
> ...


They're great pics (notwithstanding the blurred specs). My S7 also does the fake lens blur thing but I'v not used it so much so don't know how effective it is.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 9, 2017)

editor said:


> I'd prefer a phone that was slightly fatter and slightly heavier because of a far heftier battery and built a lot more robustly. You don't _need_ glass on the back, so I'd get rid of that too.


Absolutely. The manufactures all seem to have lost their way a bit and got obsessed by sleek glass and thin aluminium...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 9, 2017)

There was something to be said for Samsung making phones out of plastic...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 9, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> There was something to be said for Samsung making phones out of plastic...



I once had an indestructible Land Rover phone. Left it on a bus in Finsbury Park.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 9, 2017)

End of first full day on a full charge.

Used it a bit this afternoon while waiting for stuff to test, used a bit this evening but not to the extend I normally would, mainly because I spent 10 minutes or so recording an animojikaroke!!

Downloaded that to sequence with the proper track in background in Premire Pro thou rather than faffing about trying to get the track on the iPhone! 

Still have 58% battery, so not going to charge, see if I can get it through two days on one charge, thou will probably be a push!

Oh and I really do think my specs are a problem with this phone. When I originally did Face ID yesterday I was wearing them. I then reported yesterday night that in the dark it was less than 100% successful. Obviously I don't wear my specs in bed.

So I re-did Face ID this morning, without my specs on. Its worked perfectly all day with them on, including the first Apple Pay in Spar's incredibdly brightly lit till area. 

It's also been 100% on unlocking in the dark tonight, without my specs on. Not sure if it's been picked up on in many major tech reviews, but if your specs wearing person. Do Face ID without them on! Or maybe I just didn't do it well enough yesterday!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 10, 2017)

cybershot - how much do you think the iPhone X is worth? does the £1K justify the price?


----------



## cybershot (Nov 10, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> cybershot - how much do you think the iPhone X is worth? does the £1K justify the price?



After 2 days, that's not a question I'm going to be able to answer. I doubt I'll be able to answer if after 7 days. The product needs to mature. Ask me again in 12 months when all the apps have adjusted and developers get more interesting stuff out. In which time a better model will be available for the same price!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 10, 2017)

cybershot said:


> After 2 days, that's not a question I'm going to be able to answer. I doubt I'll be able to answer if after 7 days. The product needs to mature. Ask me again in 12 months when all the apps have adjusted and developers get more interesting stuff out. In which time a better model will be available for the same price!



but in 12 months, the follow-up will be released, with updates and improved ************* and ***********.
only asked as i cancelled mine this morning - got fed up with the supplier delaying with order for 2nd week running.

i think wait until the dust settles and depending on reviews may just wait for the iPhone X sequel...i'm in no rush, even if marketing suggests otherwise.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 10, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> but in 12 months, the follow-up will be released, with updates and improved ************* and ***********.
> only asked as i cancelled mine this morning - got fed up with the supplier delaying with order for 2nd week running.
> 
> i think wait until the dust settles and depending on reviews may just wait for the iPhone X sequel...i'm in no rush, even if marketing suggests otherwise.



Totally agree, I went for it because I was in the market for a new phone. I was going to get the 8plus, then thought, fuck it. I wanted a dual lense camera but honestly felt the plus was too big (I had a standard 6 before) so opted to just drop the extra and get a phone that still fits in my hand, has a bigger screen than the plus anyway and has all the snazzy camera stuff.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 10, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Totally agree, I went for it because I was in the market for a new phone. I was going to get the 8plus, then thought, fuck it. I wanted a dual lense camera but honestly felt the plus was too big (I had a standard 6 before) so opted to just drop the extra and get a phone that still fits in my hand, has a bigger screen than the plus anyway and has all the snazzy camera stuff.



Same, my iPhone 6 is playing up and has gone proper shit since the latest iOS update.
I was at Apple to collect the iPhone 8 plus and said fuck it, that for £200 more, I could get a better looking phone with 'slightly' better features.
The plus is too massive.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 10, 2017)

Uh oh.

iPhone X Owners Encountering Green Line on Display Due to Potential Hardware Defect


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Uh oh.
> 
> iPhone X Owners Encountering Green Line on Display Due to Potential Hardware Defect


Looks quite smart, like a 1970s football strip.


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> cybershot - how much do you think the iPhone X is worth? does the £1K justify the price?


Can any phone be 'worth' one grand? It's not like the X is trailblazing the tech world with unique essential showstopping features that make your life so much more productive. I don't even think it looks that nice with that weird notch and lumpy camera on the back.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 10, 2017)

editor said:


> Can any phone be 'worth' one grand? It's not like the X is trailblazing the tech world with unique essential showstopping features that make your life so much more productive. I don't even think it looks that nice with that weird notch and lumpy camera on the back.


Is any phone worth 500? 750?

Things are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Is any phone worth 500? 750?
> 
> Things are worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.


Oh OK, It's definitely worth a thousand pounds then.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 10, 2017)

editor said:


> They're great pics (notwithstanding the blurred specs). My S7 also does the fake lens blur thing but I'v not used it so much so don't know how effective it is.


Can I ask what you think of the S7 over the S8 please Ed? Changing my S6 next week.

Ta. 

Frieda


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 10, 2017)

editor said:


> Can any phone be 'worth' one grand? It's not like the X is trailblazing the tech world with unique essential showstopping features that make your life so much more productive. I don't even think it looks that nice with that weird notch and lumpy camera on the back.



How do you decide what somethings worth? S8 was £800 on launch which I thought was to much. I broke at £600. My other half thinks that's nuts and will only just spend £100. It's all relative I guess.


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

friedaweed said:


> Can I ask what you think of the S7 over the S8 please Ed? Changing my S6 next week.
> 
> Ta.
> 
> Frieda


The S8 looks bloody lovely and if I could afford it, I'd be very tempted (but I'm even more tempted by the Note 8 which is a beautiful piece of technology and the stylus is superb. Apart from the looks, there's no massive differences between the S7 and S8 - the camera is essentially the same. I picked up a s7 for around £340 new on eBay which I thought was excellent value - even more so now that I've discovered that Samsung were happy to honour the warranty and essentially replace the entire phone for free a year later.

And just to get back on topic, this has just arrived in my inbox: iPhone X review: The best iPhone ever made, but you should still save your money for the iPhone 8 Plus


----------



## elbows (Nov 10, 2017)

editor said:


> Can any phone be 'worth' one grand? It's not like the X is trailblazing the tech world with unique essential showstopping features that make your life so much more productive. I don't even think it looks that nice with that weird notch and lumpy camera on the back.



If I thought it would last me twice as long as most phones then it would be worth it.

If I was 100% sure I could use the facial gesture recognition stuff to export data into a 3d game engine to animate characters for games and film projects in a fairly smooth workflow then it would be worth it to me but this is obviously a very niche case.


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

elbows said:


> If I thought it would last me twice as long as most phones then it would be worth it.


Given that it's been described as the most fragile iPhone ever that's unlikely - and the battery will degrade over time just like any other phone and replacing it on this phone is a particularly pricey process.


----------



## elbows (Nov 10, 2017)

editor said:


> Given that it's been described as the most fragile iPhone ever that's unlikely - and the battery will degrade over time just like any other phone and replacing it on this phone is a particularly pricey process.



Perhaps I should have made it clearer that I don't think the iPhone X will last me twice as long if I get one (and if I get one it will be due to my other point). Really I was just answering the question as to when a phone would theoretically be worth spending a grand on to me.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 10, 2017)

Battery had just died after recording about 10 minutes worth of video. So a full charge with pretty average use at least from the get go should easily last you 2 days in my opinion. Obviously if this changes over the next several days I'll let you know. 

Obviously it will degrade over time, that's just how these batteries work, but you can do things to look after the battery and I intend to do a lot more of that this time round after killing a 4S battery within 2 years and a 6 battery within 3. As I've learnt from my mistakes and usage I fully expect (for the price I paid) the battery to be in a good state in hopefully 4 years time. If I still have the handset then is another matter, as it will no doubt have slowed down to snail pace thanks to iOS 15 or before!


----------



## elbows (Nov 10, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Obviously it will degrade over time, that's just how these batteries work, but you can do things to look after the battery and I intend to do a lot more of that this time round after killing a 4S battery within 2 years and a 6 battery within 3. As I've learnt from my mistakes and usage I fully expect (for the price I paid) the battery to be in a good state in hopefully 4 years time.



Got any tips? Not that I think the battery being in a good state in 4 years is realistic to be honest.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 10, 2017)

Follow the general advice, such as: Check out out battery charging tips and tricks to make your device and in my case, don't use your phone as a daily sat nav 1h30m a day, especially in a case, because it just gets roasting hot, and heat = bad.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 10, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Follow the general advice, such as: Check out out battery charging tips and tricks to make your device and in my case, don't use your phone as a daily sat nav 1h30m a day, especially in a case, because it just gets roasting hot, and heat = bad.



This is why built in batteries are shit. I also use my phone as a sat nav whilst streaming stuff and in the past would just buy a new battery in 12 months.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 10, 2017)

editor said:


> Oh OK, It's definitely worth a thousand pounds then.


To me? No.

Others clearly think otherwise...


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> To me? No.
> 
> Others clearly think otherwise...


Well off people and the stinking rich aren't generally renown for their sensible insights into what constitutes 'value for money,' mind. Just look at the ghastly diamond studded iPhones you can get. Eeek!


----------



## cybershot (Nov 11, 2017)

Face ID does not work when I have a beanie hat on. This is going to be a problem.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 11, 2017)

Face ID was always a next best solution to the fingerprint ID under the screen fail. Once they sort that out the whole no home button/fingerprint thing becomes a lot more interesting to me. I don't like the idea that I have to physically point the phone to my face to unlock it, or use the code. Having to take your hat off now is also putting me off.


----------



## xenon (Nov 11, 2017)

So Face ID doesn't work if you wear glasses and or a hat.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 11, 2017)

xenon said:


> So Face ID doesn't work if you wear glasses and or a hat.


Not a surprise, really. Same in the airport.


----------



## elbows (Nov 11, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Face ID does not work when I have a beanie hat on. This is going to be a problem.



Based on what happened to some people when they started doing tests to see if their siblings could pose as them for the detection, I think there is a learning process that carries on with it during routine use.

If it were me I would keep wearing the beanie and enter the passcode when the detection fails. After doing this an unknown number of times, it might learn that you with a beanie on is still you, and start accepting you in beanie mode without having to enter pin.


----------



## paolo (Nov 11, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Face ID does not work when I have a beanie hat on. This is going to be a problem.



Works fine for me in a hoody.

One thing a couple of reviewers have said is that it appears to learn. After being refused, and entering the pass code, they later found their ‘new attire’ was accepted.

Would be interesting to know if the problem persists for you.

*nips off to do hat test*

My results:

Beanie hat: Worked instantly.

Then I tried upping the game to a (faux) fur trapper hat. The ones that drop down over your ears and fasten under the chin.

That worked instantly as well.

(Both in low light conditions, which maybe helped).


----------



## cybershot (Nov 11, 2017)

elbows said:


> Based on what happened to some people when they started doing tests to see if their siblings could pose as them for the detection, I think there is a learning process that carries on with it during routine use.
> 
> If it were me I would keep wearing the beanie and enter the passcode when the detection fails. After doing this an unknown number of times, it might learn that you with a beanie on is still you, and start accepting you in beanie mode without having to enter pin.



I think you’re right. It seemed to work much better later on in the day than when I first put it on. Phew.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2017)

Interesting review here. 



> As you might expect, Neistat’s overall verdict is that it’s a great phone. There isn’t anything groundbreaking in here, but I think he does an excellent job outlining a few user experience problems that iPhone X users are running into. The lack of a home button means that you can’t multitask out of an app if it crashes, and the change in how multitasking functions makes it way slower to force-close an app. These aren’t deal-breakers, but it’s a good breakdown of how not having a home button will actually affect you.
> 
> Neistat also has a few gripes with iOS in general that are worth the time — specifically, that the notifications are broken, and there’s no way to picture-in-picture an app.



Casey Neistat’s verdict on the iPhone X is in


----------



## Mojofilter (Nov 11, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Face ID was always a next best solution to the fingerprint ID under the screen fail. Once they sort that out the whole no home button/fingerprint thing becomes a lot more interesting to me. I don't like the idea that I have to physically point the phone to my face to unlock it, or use the code. Having to take your hat off now is also putting me off.



It defies explanation that they couldn’t have just put the fingerprint scanner somewhere else. I prefer it on the back anyway and I don’t see any issue with putting it on the side like the Razer phone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 11, 2017)

Mojofilter said:


> It defies explanation that they couldn’t have just put the fingerprint scanner somewhere else. I prefer it on the back anyway and I don’t see any issue with putting it on the side like the Razer phone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Except when you want to look at your phone while it’s laying flat on the table you still have to pick it up to scan your finger on the back. 

I actually don’t think a front finger scan is a problem that needed solving.


----------



## paolo (Nov 11, 2017)

Mojofilter said:


> It defies explanation that they couldn’t have just put the fingerprint scanner somewhere else. I prefer it on the back anyway and I don’t see any issue with putting it on the side like the Razer phone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



That was my view.

But Day 4... it is like no scanner. It’s like using an unlocked phone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 11, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Except when you want to look at your phone while it’s laying flat on the table you still have to pick it up to scan your finger on the back.
> 
> I actually don’t think a front finger scan is a problem that needed solving.



You can have both. I use fingerprint most often, but use the retina scan on the S8 when that isn't convinent


----------



## paolo (Nov 11, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> You can have both. I use fingerprint most often, but use the retina scan on the S8 when that isn't convinent



The X has no choice.

You just use the phone.

The is no choice of convenience. There is no inconvenience. There’s nothing. It’s - weirdly - like using an unlocked phone.


----------



## paolo (Nov 12, 2017)

Some of the observations I read recently:

*Samsung is making more money per iPhone X than they do on their top end phones.
*
It’s not a crazy idea.

For the display, one story is that Samsung is charging Apple $110, vs an ‘internal charge’ of $85 between Samsung parts and Samsung phones. Apple are paying a premium of $25 over Samsung’s internal price.

It’s very believable. The display - according to Apple - is made to Apple’s spec. I’d expect Samsung to charge a premium for that, and of course a premium for selling outside their internal corporate structure.

Also, OLEDS are not something you just shop around for. Google are already under fire for choosing questionable LG parts for premium phones, with early reports of burn-in on one their top price models. Samsung are the only reputable make of high quality phone-sized OLEDs. (LG do better on TV size).

The next big money part for Apple is the SSD, and again Samsung is the only quality volume supplier. Apple don’t make memory chips. They have to go to a big supplier. Samsung has been ahead of the game in flash memory for a long time.

I remember when people started speculating about bigger memory for iPhones, and the corresponding (and correct) analysis was: What memory will Samsung have available?

So yep, Apple have been nailing it with their own ARM implementations, but the parts cost of the phone is much more than that. If you look at a phone with a best in class OLED display, or shipping in volume with decent memory, don't have the idea that it's not Samsung - oh it's HTC, or (intert name here). Chances are it, largely is - Samsung - and you'll be shelling some bucks their way. Maybe a lot of bucks.

So whilst there is a lot of willy waving on the internet, especially amongst brand advocates (my phone is better than your phone)... underneath, it’s much more of a jumble of technology than people imagine.

And where the “hideous” profits are going, might also be less obvious. I doubt Samsung are going out of business anytime soon.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 12, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Face ID does not work when I have a beanie hat on. This is going to be a problem.



Any hat or just beanie?
Gatsby, fedora, newsboy?


----------



## cybershot (Nov 12, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> Any hat or just beanie?
> Gatsby, fedora, newsboy?



It works now. Seems it needed to learn my beanie hat look.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 12, 2017)

Using my iPad this morning is producing lots of tuts. As I'm swiping in all the wrong places and finding the home button an annoyance. Retraining yourself is easy enough but going back to the old way just feels crap.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 12, 2017)

I just dropped it!!!!!!!

About hip height. Had my hands full. Literally seconds before I said to myself put it in my pocket, and didn’t.

Onto a hard wooden floor. Not a scratch or scruff anywhere. (Where’s the utterly relived smilie)

I was going to go until Wednesday without a case for review purposes. Fuck that. Case is now on.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 12, 2017)

Small selection of photos and videos I took yesterday at Severn Valley Railway and by the Bridgnorth Cliff Railway, oh and the animojikaroke I did the other night! 

Put the on Flickr as enables you to zoom in and what not.
Nothing special done, literally just pulled the phone out and took a photo.

Cybershot Urban75


----------



## NoXion (Nov 12, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> This could be an interesting alternative, and cheaper than an iPhone X...




Very nice, I saw an article about this before and now I'm torn between this and the Galaxy S8+.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 13, 2017)

Several iPhone X Owners Experiencing 'Crackling' or 'Buzzing' Sounds From Earpiece Speaker

YouTube iOS App Causing Battery Drain, Overheating Issues for Some Users <- Glad this one isn't just me! I usually just use the web version, but been using the app for testing purposes.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2017)




----------



## sim667 (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


>




I wonder how many people realised it wasn't an iPhone X and didn't make the edit.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

sim667 said:


> I wonder how many people realised it wasn't an iPhone X and didn't make the edit.


I'm sure some did, but that wasn't the point, was it?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 14, 2017)

A quid says you could do that exact sketch with any major new phone release.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


> I'm sure some did, but that wasn't the point, was it?



No obviously..... But I'd have liked to have seen their reactions too.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 14, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A quid says you could do that exact sketch with any major new phone release.



I think I still have my Sony Ericsson GA268 somewhere


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A quid says you could do that exact sketch with any major new phone release.


Except no 'major phone release' comes with the Apple-manipulated, over the top, "this changes everything" hype, pointless all-week queuing and moronic, block-circling dickheads in blue shirts whooping and clapping rich cunts who've got a grand to drop on a new phone when some people can't even tell the fucking difference. _That_ is the point.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 14, 2017)

they're all cunts - apple, samsung, lg, huawei etc...it's just there's an apple on top of the cunt-tree.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


>




Probably the best iPhone ever.
All round good bit of kit.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


> Except no 'major phone release' comes with the Apple-manipulated, over the top, "this changes everything" hype, pointless all-week queuing and moronic, block-circling dickheads in blue shirts whooping and clapping rich cunts who've got a grand to drop on a new phone when some people can't even tell the fucking difference. _That_ is the point.



TBF it is very good marketing, regardless of how nauseating it is. Apple marketers have latched on to American fanboiism and its paying dividends for their company.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

sim667 said:


> TBF it is very good marketing, regardless of how nauseating it is. Apple marketers have latched on to American fanboiism and its paying dividends for their company.


Personally I loathe it. It's everything I hate about consumerism and capitalism. Backslapping, whooping and applauding people just because they have the money to buy a very expensive phone from a filthy, filthy rich company that refused to give a penny to charity for years is obscene.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 14, 2017)

sim667 said:


> TBF it is very good marketing, regardless of how nauseating it is. Apple marketers have latched on to American fanboiism and its paying dividends for their company.


Marketing is part of the deal and yeah some people do buy into that sort of thing, however I don't think you can fool all of the people all of the time. If Apple products were total crap then eventually people would stop buying them, perhaps that will happen one day. The thing is that their products and associated ecosystem are usually quite good and people genuinely like them, and it's not all just because of Apple's marketing and dumb consumers who will buy any old expensive shit.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 14, 2017)




----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


>



What's the video about?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


> Personally I loathe it. It's everything I hate about consumerism and capitalism. Backslapping, whooping and applauding people just because they have the money to buy a very expensive phone from a filthy, filthy rich company that refused to give a penny to charity for years is obscene.



On the flip side, at leas their marketing is exactly that, sickly sweet selling a lifestyle, and not some fucking horrendous marketing campaign that we've seen from big business in the past.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


> What's the video about?


The title kinda gives it away, no? 

"Samsung started it with the Note 8, LG quickly joined with the V30 of course Apple took it to a whole new level with the iPhone 10 and now there's rumours that even Google will join with their Pixel line as well. I'm talking about this new trend of ultra premium flagships of course, but what are they and why are they so damn expensive?"


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 14, 2017)

“What are they” - shiny phones

“Why are they so damn expensive” - because enough people are willing to pay for them


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> The title kinda gives it away, no?
> 
> "Samsung started it with the Note 8, LG quickly joined with the V30 of course Apple took it to a whole new level with the iPhone 10 and now there's rumours that even Google will join with their Pixel line as well. I'm talking about this new trend of ultra premium flagships of course, but what are they and why are they so damn expensive?"


The Pixel costs nowhere near as much as the iPhone X. Neither do any of the other phones - the old iPhone 8 was just as pricey as some - so I'm not getting his point.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 14, 2017)

The Nokia 8110 was the 1st luxury phone I can remember.


----------



## elbows (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


> The Pixel costs nowhere near as much as the iPhone X. Neither do any of the other phones - the old iPhone 8 was just as pricey as some - so I'm not getting his point.



Just because the iPhone X is the most expensive of the bunch, doesn't mean that a new class of ultra premium flagship devices doesn't exist, or that the iPhone x is alone in the class. Especially as apple stuff is almost always more expensive than everyone else offerings, but this never stopped them being lumped into the same class as offerings from competitors that were cheaper.

The note 8 certainly belongs in that class, and its quite clear that multiple manufacturers are experimenting at the premium end to see what extra profit they can get.


----------



## paolo (Nov 14, 2017)

elbows said:


> Just because the iPhone X is the most expensive of the bunch, doesn't mean that a new class of ultra premium flagship devices doesn't exist, or that the iPhone x is alone in the class. Especially as apple stuff is almost always more expensive than everyone else offerings, but this never stopped them being lumped into the same class as offerings from competitors that were cheaper.
> 
> The note 8 certainly belongs in that class, and its quite clear that multiple manufacturers are experimenting at the premium end to see what extra profit they can get.



Indeed.

The camera maker Red has announced a phone that will be north of $1300.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


> The Pixel costs nowhere near as much as the iPhone X. Neither do any of the other phones - the old iPhone 8 was just as pricey as some - so I'm not getting his point.


The (premium) Pixel 2 was not being compared to the (ultrapremium) iPhone x, but the rumours of the next pixel (Pixel X?) which suggest that it is going to join in with the two tiered premium/ultrapremium stragegy that some of the phone manufacturers have adopted.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> The (premium) Pixel 2 was not being compared to the (ultrapremium) iPhone x, but the rumours of the next pixel (Pixel X?) which suggest that it is going to join in with the two tiered premium/ultrapremium stragegy that some of the phone manufacturers have adopted.


So the already flawed article is centred around his wild guesses about a completely non existent Pixel phone? I'll give it a miss then.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2017)

Interesting!

Watch a 10-Year-Old's Face Unlock His Mom's iPhone X


----------



## elbows (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


> Interesting!



A lot of these things are happening not because the detection is inherently weak, but because Apple failed to deal with multiple users of a device properly, and educate users about how it works.

As mentioned earlier with the beanie hat stuff, there is machine learning going on and if people start letting other people get into the device using their pin, when faced is still active, its going to start incorporating aspects of these other peoples faces into its learning and there is a mess.

I cannot be sure that is whats happening here, because such short videos are just showing the end result, not what they've been doing with their phone before that may have confused the learning.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 14, 2017)

I wonder if the FBI are paying someone to attempt to unlock a phone upto a million times, entering the passcode after each failed attempt, to see if it eventually just lets that person in by face alone.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 14, 2017)

editor said:


> So the already flawed article is centred around his wild guesses about a completely non existent Pixel phone? I'll give it a miss then.


lol, not quite, but whatever. I don't really have anything invested in whether you watch it or pay attention to what Android Authority say or not. I thought Martin's analysis was quite interesting and topical and a lot more balanced and insightful than angry peoples on the interwebz with brand hate/envy. The same "wild guess" sources were fairly accurate leading up to the Pixel 2 line up, so if it turns out that there's a Pixel 3/XL and a third "super premium" model come October next year, you can say you heard it here first.


----------



## paolo (Nov 15, 2017)

Marques Brownlee 



(I do like Marques Brownlee... his editing style is just slightly *too* fast for my ageing tastes, but he's a great reviewer for the ordinary buyer, doesn't get toooo bogged down in needless detail.)


----------



## paolo (Nov 15, 2017)

Marques Brownlee's review. Nilay Patel goes into more tech detail, but Brownlee's style is very accessible and equally well considered I think.


----------



## paolo (Nov 15, 2017)

One thing I noted in some recent tech podcasts. John Gruber, a few weeks back, made a comment about WebOS having some genuinely great user interface ideas that he really liked. And then, in a more recent podcast, another commentator said that the new gestures for the X reminded him of WebOS. I think the driver here - as my memory serves - is the "cards" metaphor of WebOS. It looks like it's got life again. I never used a palm pre, but the cards style thing does really work.

And all the "swooshing" is touch-sampled at 120Hz... it's like the panes are glued to your finger, not trying to keep up with some lag. This gives it 'feel'. Sure, 30Hz or whatever would still work, just like a non hi DPI display would still work, or 10 year old LCD would still work, but there is something very tactile about this super fast responsiveness.

ANIMOJI... Apple's being naughty...

You'd be forgiven for thinking they work using the depth sensor used for FaceID. I certainly did. Then the other night I went to demo it to a mate. FaceID works perfectly in the dark, but Animoji... no deal. They're just using the front facing camera. The cheeky thing here is that Apple *could* have enabled it for any of their phones. Thumbs down for this. Historically, they've generally offered "everything to everyone" where the hardware permits. This (not staff wearing T shirts, or queues that are too long/too short, ahem  ) is their sleight of hand in this phone.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

paolo said:


> One thing I noted in some recent tech podcasts. John Gruber, a few weeks back, made a comment about WebOS having some genuinely great user interface ideas that he really liked. And then, in a more recent podcast, another commentator said that the new gestures for the X reminded him of WebOS. I think the driver here - as my memory serves - is the "cards" metaphor of WebOS. It looks like it's got life again. I never used a palm pre, but the cards style thing does really work.


The Apple cards interface is a total rip-off of the WebOS, which was cruelly underrated and let down by poor hardware and being too late to the party.



> Apple’s upcoming iOS 11 once again demonstrates how far ahead of its time WebOS really was. The yet-to-be-released Apple mobile system has essentially copied the WebOS model for switching apps by having the user swipe upward from the bottom to reveal several “cards” that represent background applications.
> 
> Despite WebOS' many innovations, some of which still remain unsurpassed today, the mobile operating system was hobbled by the fact that Palm had nowhere near the amount of money and connections to phone companies that Google and Apple did. Not having as much cash also meant that Palm's hardware lagged behind competitors whose bigger budgets enabled them to release hardware quicker.
> 
> Remember Palm's WebOS? Maybe not, but Apple and Google definitely do





More here: What the iPhone X borrowed from the Palm Pre


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 15, 2017)

paolo said:


> Marques Brownlee
> 
> 
> 
> (I do like Marques Brownlee... his editing style is just slightly *too* fast for my ageing tastes, but he's a great reviewer for the ordinary buyer, doesn't get toooo bogged down in needless detail.)



lol, took me a while before I saw the unibrow haircut.

I also like Mr Brownlee's high quality and professional reviews. My usual "first port of call" is Lisa from MobileTechReview. Her reviews can be a bit long and sometimes a bit too  detailed, but are usually very thorough and also very professional.



Erica the technology nerd who likes to film stuff is very good too imo...


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2017)

I've no doubt that the iPhone X is incredibly fast but this test seems to counter some of the wilder claims being made about it destroying all the competition etc. Truth is, I think it all gets a bit silly when it comes to high end (or even some mid-range) phones as they all go plenty fast for just about everyone.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 20, 2017)

So...the reviews have been mostly favourable, although it's still early days yet and it would be interesting to see what happens now that they launch hype dust has settled a bit. 

I personally am not interested in spending more than £500 on any phone so the iPhone X wouldn't be on my radar. Having said that I can see why some might be attracted to it and good luck to them. If I was going to buy a phone today, it would probably be the OP5T. Flagship features for a few hundred quid less. Ok it's not waterproof, has a 1080p screen and no wireless charging, but for me those are not show stoppers at all.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> So...the reviews have been mostly favourable, although it's still early days yet and it would be interesting to see what happens now that they launch hype dust has settled a bit.
> 
> I personally am not interested in spending more than £500 on any phone so the iPhone X wouldn't be on my radar. Having said that I can see why some might be attracted to it and good luck to them. If I was going to buy a phone today, it would probably be the OP5T. Flagship features for a few hundred quid less. Ok it's not waterproof, has a 1080p screen and no wireless charging, but for me those are not show stoppers at all.



Fucking hell, the OP5T pretty much destroys the iPhone.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 20, 2017)

editor said:


> Fucking hell, the OP5T pretty much destroys the iPhone.


lol, calm down, calm down. The specs for the OP5T haven't changed much from the 5 which also beat the more expensive Pixel and Note 8.


----------



## elbows (Nov 21, 2017)

Fucking scum....



> The statements from Apple and Foxconn come after six high school students told the _Financial Times_ they routinely work 11-hour days assembling the iPhone X at Foxconn's factory in Zhengzhou, China.
> 
> "We are being forced by our school to work here," said Ms Yang, an 18-year-old student training to be a train attendant who declined to use her first name for fear of punishment. "The work has nothing to do with our studies." She said she assembled up to 1,200 iPhone X cameras a day.
> 
> The students, aged 17 to 19, reportedly said they were told that a three-month stint at the factory was required "work experience" that they had to complete in order to graduate from Zhengzhou Urban Rail Transit School.



Apple Taking Action After Students Worked Overtime to Assemble iPhone X at Foxconn


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 21, 2017)

elbows said:


> Fucking scum....
> 
> Apple Taking Action After Students Worked Overtime to Assemble iPhone X at Foxconn


tbf, probably not something that unique to Apple/Foxconn, corners are cut across the board in search of profits :-



> Samsung’s corner cutting and dangerous practices haven’t been reserved solely for consumers either – they’ve hit their workforce too, seeing them replace Foxconn as the poster child of worker rights abuses in the electronics industry. A group of workers, their families and trade unionists – Supporters for the Health and Rights of People in the Semiconductor industry (SHARPS) – have been staging a sit-in at Samsung’s South Korean global exhibition space for over a year. SHARPS accuse Samsung of causing the death of more than 70 factory workers, and occupational disease of many others due to their exposure to toxic chemicals without adequate protection and are fighting for compensation for workers and their families, as well as for a full disclosure of the chemicals Samsung has required workers to use in manufacturing. Earlier this year a South Korean court confirmed that the Korean Workers Compensation and Welfare Service should pay compensation to an LCD worker – Kim Mi-seon, for Multiple Sclerosis she suffered through her work at Samsung – the first ruling of its kind.


The battle of Samsung and what you can do about it


Samsung denies withholding toxin details

Global reach of Samsung's medieval practices revealed in new report | HuffPost

Not just Apple: Working life at the Samsung iPhone factory

China Labor Watch accuses Samsung of more violations of worker's rights


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2017)

PaoloSanchez said:


> tbf, probably not something that unique to Apple/Foxconn, corners are cut across the board in search of profits :-


But with Apple being the richest and most profitable company in the world - and the cunts who disgracefully refused to give money to charity for years - they're the ones who should be leading the way. Even more so, given their hip and trendy status and global influence as as icon of 'cool'. Samsung are a bunch of utter cunts, but Apple are the biggest scumbags of the lot.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 21, 2017)

The issue really is about working conditions in China as a whole. Foxconn acted outside of their own conditions, as made clear by a part of the report in the link, which I'm assuming has been left out of the quotations in the post in this thread in order to whip up just that little bit of extra anger.



> Foxconn said that "all work was voluntary and compensated appropriately," but admitted that the interns *"did work overtime in violation of our policy*," which reportedly prohibits interns working more than 40 hours per week.



On the other hand using interns to build the product is worth getting pissed off about, however, I'm not sure how commonplace stuff like that is in China, and I wouldn't be surprised if such practices aren't exceptionally common.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 21, 2017)

All fucking cunts.

I'm now not buying a new mobile at all, getting a proper camera for proper photos...
fucking iphone tossers with their fake bokehs and fake portraits.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 21, 2017)

editor said:


> But with Apple being the richest and most profitable company in the world - and the cunts who disgracefully refused to give money to charity for years - they're the ones who should be leading the way. Even more so, given their hip and trendy status and global influence as as icon of 'cool'. Samsung are a bunch of utter cunts, but Apple are the biggest scumbags of the lot.


Apple have set working conditions as part of their contract with Foxconn as they can't afford don't like publicity of this nature. 

Foxconn are the cunts. Apple will be cunts if they don't investigate it and then penalise Foxconn for breaches when they receive reports of such. 

They are investigating, let's hope they follow through and penalise them heavily. If not then yes cunts. 

Coca-Cola are bigger cunts. They do nothing about tons of human rights breaches.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 21, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> I'm now not buying a new mobile at all, getting a proper camera for proper photos...
> fucking iphone tossers with their fake bokehs and fake portraits.



TIL only iPhone cameras have filters..... who knew?


----------



## elbows (Nov 21, 2017)

The FT article has more detail.

Subscribe to read



> “The purchasing practices of Apple and others are designed to cut costs, and do things ‘just in time’,” said Jenny Chan, assistant professor at the Hong Kong Polytechnic University. “This leads to the use of student labourers who can be flexibly hired.”





> Foxconn said its internship programme was “carried out in co-operation with local governments and a number of vocational schools in China”.  The education ministry of Henan, where Zhengzhou is the capital, issued notices to all vocational schools in the central Chinese province to send their “work experience students” to Foxconn, according to a person who saw the notice.





> Providing flexible student labour is one of the preferential policies that the Henan government offers Foxconn in order to keep it there.  “Henan province does everything in its power to make sure Foxconn thrives here. It’s not just about tax revenues — it’s about industrial upgrading, building an export industry, having a foreign partnership [with Apple],” said a local official.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 22, 2017)

editor said:


> But with Apple being the richest and most profitable company in the world - and the cunts who disgracefully refused to give money to charity for years - they're the ones who should be leading the way. Even more so, given their hip and trendy status and global influence as as icon of 'cool'. Samsung are a bunch of utter cunts, but Apple are the biggest scumbags of the lot.


Well, maybe, I'm not that, even with their big profits, that it is fair to single them out as the "biggest scumbags", but whatever. The current dominant economic system is profit driven, it is what we collectively buy into, along with all it's flaws and injustices. Of course we should try as much as we can to improve things, and I suppose that your way of contributing to that is to rage against the Apple monster, lol. Probably not so good for the blood pressure, and besides I don't believe that any of the big tech players are "clean". 

Hopefully improved checks and balances will eventually reduce the amount of unethical and environmentally crap practices that the big corps can currently get away with. The global reach of social media should help in this regard as even big corps like Apple and Google are sensitive to adverse publicity and if they are doing bad things or bad things are being done on their behalf, the truth will out eventually.


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Nov 22, 2017)

Razer phone update...

tl;dr Around £700, big ticket item being the 120mhz refresh rate which some folks thought the iPhoneX would get. (but OLED doesn't do 120mhz yet).
Cameras are crap, buttons a bit flimsy. I wouldn't want to be paying £250 more than a OP5T for that tbh, but sounds like a decent first effort.


----------



## Chilli.s (Nov 24, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> All fucking cunts.
> 
> I'm now not buying a new mobile at all, getting a proper camera for proper photos...
> fucking iphone tossers with their fake bokehs and fake portraits.



Yup, that's how I think about it too. I'm sure a phone with a great traditional camera would be possable. It's the gaget in a phone that I use, but a real camera is always better, in any situation. As for viewing anything on a tiny screen, fogett it., I want the biggest screen possable for my old eyes.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 24, 2017)

http://uk.businessinsider.com/iphone-x-negative-review-2017-11



> *I've been using my iPhone X for nearly a month, and I've decided I hate it*


----------



## cybershot (Nov 24, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> http://uk.businessinsider.com/iphone-x-negative-review-2017-11



His main problem is it's a slippy phone and he don't feel confident using it with one hand. So he's going to trade it in for an iPhone 8 which is of similar size and also made of slippy glass.

The guy is an idiot.

A case would solve his problem.

I can't believe someone has wrote almost a thousand words on this.


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2017)

cybershot said:


> His main problem is it's a slippy phone and he don't feel confident using it with one hand. So he's going to trade it in for an iPhone 8 which is of similar size and also made of slippy glass.
> 
> The guy is an idiot.
> 
> ...


No it wouldn't. It's the shape he's complaining about. 



> The new gestures required by the notch mean there’s no way to look at my notifications with only one hand, or access the control center. Those are pretty essential functions, and it drastically limits the usability of the phone when I’m on the go, or when I only have one hand free.
> 
> I've noticed myself actually changing my behavior to try and use the phone, holding it differently and constantly changing my grip by sliding my hand up the back of the device trying to reach the top of the screen with my thumb.
> 
> With my hand closer to the top of the device, I feel like I'm going to drop it. That causes me to instinctively bring the phone down and horizontal, parallel to the floor and near my stomach. This puts the phone in an awkward position, forcing me to crane my neck.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 24, 2017)

My hands are small, probably the same as his, it's a nothing article. A case gives you added grip and extra security if you do drop it. My case is spot on if I do need to move my thumb, reachability i will give him could have been better, but i've got used to it now.

He's probably the same guy that sits in expensive posture chairs, and has sideways mouses and split angled keyboards. He should get access to work to pay for his new phone.

The fact he is swapping it for a phone more of the less the same footprint and made out of of the same material he will have the same problem. I think that's what's annoyed me the most from reading that article that proves he's a twonk.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 24, 2017)

Face ID at the desk solved!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 24, 2017)

That’s one pricey phone!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 27, 2017)

Had a play with it today, easily feels like the best iPhone they’ve ever made, clearly better designed than many other phones (actually feels like luxury unlike the S8). And that notch wasn’t really any kind of deal thirty seconds after use. You really do not see it when you’re using the phone...


.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 2, 2017)

Apples bad week continues as iOS 11.2 rushed out to fix date bug. Date Bug in iOS 11.1.2 Causing Crash Loop on iPhones as December 2 Hits [Updated]


----------



## cybershot (Dec 2, 2017)

Jesus Christ Apple. 

Face ID on the iPhone X might not be available after the iOS 11.2 update


----------



## editor (Dec 2, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Jesus Christ Apple.
> 
> Face ID on the iPhone X might not be available after the iOS 11.2 update


With this kind of un-Apple like sloppiness Steve Jobs might be reaching critical spinning speeds right now. But for the real jackpot, it's got to start catching fire.


----------



## elbows (Dec 3, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Jesus Christ Apple.
> 
> Face ID on the iPhone X might not be available after the iOS 11.2 update



Sounds like some users might be having problems with that due to fiddling with the date to work around the previous problem, rather than a new bug.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 6, 2017)

as odd as it is, i ended up getting a ‘slightly’ used iphone X for 770 squid (via another discussion forum).

I disagree with a lot of the reviews that say it’s impossible to use on one hand.
The portrait mode on stage light setting is laughable. Camera reminds me of the old LUMIX. 4K video is much better. Overall, it’s good phone, very fast and I much prefer not having the home button.

Slight annoyance is that in the first two days of usage it drank about 4gb of data (default iOS setting on WiFi assistance and iCloud Drive).

Apple are still cunts.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 6, 2017)

I had a play with one yesterday. I wasn’t that into it, too much swiping around the screen due to lack of home button. I’d rather have the 8 plus with the button and Touch ID.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 14, 2017)

editor said:


> With this kind of un-Apple like sloppiness Steve Jobs might be reaching critical spinning speeds right now. But for the real jackpot, it's got to start catching fire.



Plenty of sloppy crap under him. Remember Mobile Me or that god awful speaker system.


.


----------



## Mojofilter (Dec 28, 2017)

Are there any sales figures for the X? 

I’ve just been let out of my contract due to a loophole, usually I’m the type of sucker that wants the latest and greatest when it comes to tech but the X for me crosses the line in terms of what I’m willing to pay, so I’m sticking on the 7 and they’ve lost a sale.

I wonder how typical I am...


.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 28, 2017)

Sales are less than expected. There’s even rumour there will be a price drop next month. So hold off. Or wait until September and get the latest and greatest when it’s released by going sim only and saving in the meantime.


----------



## elbows (Dec 28, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Sales are less than expected. There’s even rumour there will be a price drop next month. So hold off.



Some analysts have painted that picture but I think its actually still too early to tell either way. The following article makes that and some other points on the subject.

Why reports of slowing iPhone X sales may be completely off base


----------



## sim667 (Jan 2, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Sales are less than expected. There’s even rumour there will be a price drop next month. So hold off. Or wait until September and get the latest and greatest when it’s released by going sim only and saving in the meantime.



If the iPhone 8 becomes more affordable I would be tempted by a price drop tbh.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 2, 2018)

Mojofilter said:


> Are there any sales figures for the X?
> 
> I’ve just been let out of my contract due to a loophole, usually I’m the type of sucker that wants the latest and greatest when it comes to tech but the X for me crosses the line in terms of what I’m willing to pay, so I’m sticking on the 7 and they’ve lost a sale.
> 
> I wonder how typical I am...



Losing a sale? It’s still an Apple product - doesn’t matter if it’s the 6s, 7, 8 or X.

I think anyone who pays full RRP for electronic or luxury goods are nuts.


----------



## Winot (Jan 11, 2018)

Interestingly, amongst my fairly tech-savvy and relatively well-off friends, haven't seen a single one of these #anecdata

Popped into Apple store on Regent St yesterday and held one for first time. Blimey they're a slippery fish!


----------



## paolo (Jan 11, 2018)

Winot said:


> Interestingly, amongst my fairly tech-savvy and relatively well-off friends, haven't seen a single one of these #anecdata
> 
> Popped into Apple store on Regent St yesterday and held one for first time. Blimey they're a slippery fish!



Insanely.

My last phone was the SE - like the 4-5 series. I think it was their best form factor ever. Sharp edged sides, super grippy. Never bought cases because I liked the design so much.

I’ve now got an X... so slippy I bought a case within a week.


----------



## keybored (Jan 11, 2018)

Virtual Blue said:


> Losing a sale? It’s still an Apple product - doesn’t matter if it’s the 6s, 7, 8 or X.


I read it as they're sticking with their existing handset when their contract ends.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2018)

Rumour is that Apple could be ditching it already after crap sales

If iPhone X demand is less than expected, analyst expects it to be 'end of life' when replacements ship

Is Apple planning to kill the original iPhone X?


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 22, 2018)

Let's see if Apple stick to their guns.

Unlike the 5c, the X is aimed at the luxury market.
If iPhone 8 / 8 plus had crap sales too, then what next?


----------



## cybershot (Jan 22, 2018)

They will all be gone I reckon as it’s 3 new phones next round. 

A non glass x 2.0
An x 2.0
And an x 2.0 plus


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 22, 2018)

Yeah probably. I’ve got to like the X. It reminds me of the first time I bought the 4 and the 6.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 23, 2018)

The pricing has to be the main issue with the X (other than the fugly notch).

Anecdotal evidence, but the Apple users in this office say they just can't afford it and have gone for an iPhone 8, 7, or even switched to Android.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 23, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Anecdotal evidence, but the Apple users in this office say they just can't afford it and have gone for an iPhone 8, 7, or even switched to Android.



Exactly why I went for an 8.

I don't mind splashing out for a phone I really like, I'm going to use it daily for 3 years or so, and it will probably never been turned off.

But at the same time, i don't want something as expensive as an X incase I lose it, it gets stolen, etc.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 23, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> The pricing has to be the main issue with the X (other than the fugly notch).
> 
> Anecdotal evidence, but the Apple users in this office say they just can't afford it and have gone for an iPhone 8, 7, or even switched to Android.



Why I got an 8 for Frau Bahn, just something about £1000+ that screams NO. As it was she dropped the 8 2 days after getting it and broke the screen


----------



## cheesethief (Jan 23, 2018)

I wonder what they'll call them after X? XI, XII, XIII, XIV? I doubt they'd go with iPhone 11, cos that's starting to sound like one sequel too many of a tired film franchise. I reckon they'll switch to cringe worthy nouns or adjectives. The iPhone Panache? iPhone Élan? iPhone Turbo?


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Exactly why I went for an 8.
> 
> I don't mind splashing out for a phone I really like, I'm going to use it daily for 3 years or so, and it will probably never been turned off.
> 
> But at the same time, i don't want something as expensive as an X incase I lose it, it gets stolen, etc.


Yes, if you're using the thing every day, then you may as well get something that's going to give you a bit of pleasure, even if it costs a bit more. Every time I say the S8 I lust after that delicious curvy screen. maybe I'll give in soon and get one off eBay now that some come up for around £400. There's no way I'd spend anywhere near a grand on a phone though. I'd be worried about scratching/dropping it the whole time.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 24, 2018)

editor said:


> Yes, if you're using the thing every day, then you may as well get something that's going to give you a bit of pleasure, even if it costs a bit more. Every time I say the S8 I lust after that delicious curvy screen. maybe I'll give in soon and get one off eBay now that some come up for around £400. There's no way I'd spend anywhere near a grand on a phone though. I'd be worried about scratching/dropping it the whole time.



I did seriously consider the S8, it looks a very nice bit of kit, but switching all my apps over is what killed it for me, if I knew the apps existed and they had some kind of switchover program where you pay a fee for the same apps or similar apps, that may have swung it for me.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 24, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I did seriously consider the S8, it looks a very nice bit of kit, but switching all my apps over is what killed it for me, if I knew the apps existed and they had some kind of switchover program where you pay a fee for the same apps or similar apps, that may have swung it for me.


My lad's got an S8 and whilst it looks nice and performs well, it doesn't have the quality feel of my i7. It feels like the difference between handling a Rolex and a Swatch. As you say, switching from iOS to Android looks like a right pain in the bollocks too.


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I did seriously consider the S8, it looks a very nice bit of kit, but switching all my apps over is what killed it for me, if I knew the apps existed and they had some kind of switchover program where you pay a fee for the same apps or similar apps, that may have swung it for me.


Switching between the two platforms is a piece of piss these days - Switch to Android - and short of some niche specialist programs, all the big apps are available on both platforms with plenty of as good as/better/slightly worse alternatives.

Here's some fair comparison reviews

iPhone 8 vs. Galaxy S8: Samsung Wins Flagship Phone Battle
The iPhone 8 goes up against the Samsung Galaxy S8 Plus

I have to say that the bezel-heavy iPhone 8 looks really tired next to the sleek curvy lines of the s8.


----------



## Mojofilter (Jan 24, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> The pricing has to be the main issue with the X (other than the fugly notch).
> 
> Anecdotal evidence, but the Apple users in this office say they just can't afford it and have gone for an iPhone 8, 7, or even switched to Android.



When you start getting into the £55-60 a month territory, I think that’s where a lot of people start to question if it’s really worth it to have the latest and greatest - even if they can afford it.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 25, 2018)

editor said:


> I have to say that the bezel-heavy iPhone 8 looks really tired next to the sleek curvy lines of the s8.



that is why many (including myself) opted for the iphone x (or left the Apple cycle altogether). it was a step away from the same ole.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 25, 2018)

editor said:


> Switching between the two platforms is a piece of piss these days - Switch to Android - and short of some niche specialist programs, all the big apps are available on both platforms with plenty of as good as/better/slightly worse alternatives.
> 
> Here's some fair comparison reviews
> 
> ...


One specific app I use just isn't on any platform except ios. Even if it was, I wouldn't want to fork out £40 for it again. I'm not prepared to switch to a platform that can't offer me the functionality I use regularly.

The S8 is a really nice phone, but when I've seen them up close, I always thought they looked a bit naff. I don't tend to like stuff with bends in them though.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 28, 2018)

KGI Shares Latest on 6.1-Inch iPhone, Next iPhone X and iPhone X Plus to Have 4GB of RAM and Two-Cell Batteries


----------



## cheesethief (Feb 5, 2018)

Apple reportedly looking into new iPhone X bug that breaks phone calls

If I'd spent a thousand pounds on a phone, I think it would be nice if it could receive calls...


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2018)

cheesethief said:


> Apple reportedly looking into new iPhone X bug that breaks phone calls
> 
> If I'd spent a thousand pounds on a phone, I think it would be nice if it could receive calls...


An but think of how_ stylish_ you'd look when you're fumbling with your £1,000 phone trying to answer a call


----------



## cybershot (Feb 5, 2018)

A phone call. What, If I wanted to make calls, I'd buy a Nokia 3310.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Feb 5, 2018)

cybershot said:


> KGI Shares Latest on 6.1-Inch iPhone, Next iPhone X and iPhone X Plus to Have 4GB of RAM and Two-Cell Batteries



A bigger X? 
The current size is perfect for one handed operation.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2018)

Virtual Blue said:


> A bigger X?
> The current size is perfect for one handed operation.



Yeah it is but a bigger screen is always nice.

My prediction:

2018

iPhone X
iPhone X Plus

iPhone 8S
iPhone 8S Plus

2019

iPhone XS
iPhone XS Plus


.


----------

