# Waterloo "balcony"...latest Network Rail architectural vandalism



## teuchter (Oct 8, 2011)

​I'm really sad to find out that Network Rail are adding a "balcony" to the passenger concourse at Waterloo.​It's a great space, a big sweeping curve with the famous station clock in the middle. It's already cluttered with the usual kiosks and the horrible barrier running along above the platform gates which is just a massive advertising hoarding blocking off the view into the platform area with the fairly recently restored glass roof.​Now they are sticking this stupid balcony along the back of the concourse. The original building will effectively disappear behind it.​Have they gotten away with this by means of the fact that railway buildings are exempt from planning permission?​They are claiming it will provide "give passengers more space and better facilities" but it looks to me like it's just another station being turned into a shopping centre.

Network Rail seem to specialise in insensitive alterations and get away with it because of this exemption. Likewise the giant portacabin stacks they seem to drop around the place to house their offices.​The contrast between London Transport's generally exemplary approach to design couldn't contrast more with that adopted by Network Rail. Even their logo is rubbish.​Rant over​



​


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## spanglechick (Oct 8, 2011)

it's not an attractive experience now (has a touch of the birmingham new streets). i can't believe it could be any worse.


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## quimcunx (Oct 8, 2011)

It would certainly look a lot smarter if more people were wearing uniforms. People are such scruffs these days.


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## QueenOfGoths (Oct 8, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> it's not an attractive experience now (has a touch of the birmingham new streets). i can't believe it could be any worse.


Yeah,  Waterloo Station is a fucking shithole at the moment plus for those of us who have fatigue/balance problems there is hardly anywhere to sit down.The facilities really can't be any worse than they currently are and the balcony looks, to me, like an improvement.


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## rich! (Oct 8, 2011)

It's the inside of a train station. It's not about "loveliness", it's about mass movement of people and providing space and amenities for them while they are moving.

Besides, have you seen the trains they put through that station? *shudder*


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## teuchter (Oct 8, 2011)




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## clicker (Oct 8, 2011)

I think I may approve of this in theory....Waterloo station is a place perhaps better looked down on, to people watch at a higher level with a coffee and a croissant....the concourse itself is just a constant stream of pull along suitcases and spilt drinks drying on the terrazzo floor....and the clock could be seen at a new level level...so long as they don't mess with the exterior then I'll reserve judgement...i think a lot of the 'beauty' of the station is overlooked at concourse level. as it's too busy to look and appreciate...


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## spanglechick (Oct 8, 2011)

the facade is lovely. the steps up to the grand front entrance. but it just doesn't have the space that made the st pancras redevelopment so breezy. and i can't see them doing a total staggered rebuild, as with kings cross. it's a long, narrow concourse. what else are you going to do with it to make it more pleasant while maintaining all the function (and that includes commerce)?


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## Crispy (Oct 8, 2011)

Long-term, there are hand-wavy plans to put the concourse at ground level, with elevator access to the platforms (like St. Pancras). This would also allow the re-instatement of the tracks to London Bridge and beyond.


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## spanglechick (Oct 8, 2011)

ooh  would that also make waterloo east feel more gathered-in?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 8, 2011)

AFAIK the balcony will offer access to the shops which used to clutter the concourse, allowing more people to cram in to the concourse when everything goes to pot and no trains are running.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 8, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> It would certainly look a lot smarter if more people were wearing uniforms. People are such scruffs these days.



There'll be uniforms in my place of business. Skimpy French Maids for the girls for a start.


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## quimcunx (Oct 8, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> There'll be uniforms in my place of business. Skimpy French Maids for the girls for a start.



And for the men?

Just for my mental files, you understand.


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## quimcunx (Oct 8, 2011)

teuchter said:


>


 
(((architecture)))


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 8, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> And for the men?
> 
> Just for my mental files, you understand.



Pilot's uniform, think Catch Me If You Can.


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## quimcunx (Oct 8, 2011)

:approval:


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## stuff_it (Oct 8, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> There'll be uniforms in my place of business. Skimpy French Maids for the girls for a start.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 8, 2011)

It's OK, you don't meet the public, I'll be the only one leering working in the office with you.


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## Mapped (Oct 8, 2011)

It's not that great, looks like it'll get in the way a bit

I wish someone would do something about Euston though. That station is a monstrosity


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 8, 2011)

Look at the picture...






No WHS, Sock Shop, Threshers etc. on the concourse.

Won't last of course, but that''s supposed to be the idea.


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## stuff_it (Oct 8, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Look at the picture...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There won't be a Threshers anyway...


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm sure there was, well it looked like a Threshers, sold booze and everything!


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## stuff_it (Oct 8, 2011)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I'm sure there was, well it looked like a Threshers, sold booze and everything!


Back in 2008 again?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 8, 2011)

I'm far more down wid da kidz dan dat..







Image details:



 Type:JPGDate:4 Nov 2009
Camera:Canon 5D Mark II


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## cybertect (Oct 9, 2011)

I must admit I think it's preferable to the clutter of shops on the concourse if they do go permanently. Euston and Victoria have been much improved since they cleared away the florists, etc.

Happens I've recently scanned some pics I took in March 1990 for a final year paper on design of urban transport systems.




Waterloo Station concourse, March 1990 by cybertect, on Flickr


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## cybertect (Oct 9, 2011)

Phone Booth by cybertect, on Flickr


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## clicker (Oct 9, 2011)

To be honest Waterloo has morphed into one big pie and pasty shop....how many variations are really needed....and only one chemist ...a Boots at the far end, cutting it fine for your train and in dire need of plaster and you run the length of the concourse in search of said item....where as you could stem the flow of blood with a tuna baguette in matter of seconds....


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## laptop (Oct 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Long-term, there are hand-wavy plans to put the concourse at ground level, with elevator access to the platforms (like St. Pancras). This would also allow the re-instatement of the tracks to London Bridge and beyond.



Does that mean destroying the warren of tunnels underneath the concourse? I keep finding more...


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## temper_tantrum (Oct 9, 2011)

You can't really appreciate the architectural magnificence of the original building at the moment anyway, you're too busy keeping your eyes at ground level, trying to avoid pissed-off commuters and not accidentally walk into a display of expensive notebooks and greetings cards (Paperchase) ... Taking all the shops etc out from the middle of the concourse floor would be marvellous. I expect it'd help the flow of people too. That station is one of the worst places in London for being unable to walk in a straight line because there are people coming at you from all directions, all the time. You can't cross the concourse without getting sworn/glared at at least 3 times.

I agree with you about the barrier/advertising hordings above the platform gates, it looks much nicer in London Bridge station, now they've got rid of that and a clear line of sight through the station and out to the platforms is starting to emerge (surrounded by ongoing scaffolding and building works).


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## teuchter (Oct 9, 2011)

Looks like much of the space saved by removing the kiosks will be taken up with the escalators up to the balcony and it looks like there's some kind of new kiosk thing in the middle under the clock.

Somehow I feel this is more about creating extra retail space than making the concourse work better for passengers.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 9, 2011)

teuchter said:


> Rant over​
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is even a 'rant' in that picture.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 9, 2011)

rich! said:


> It's the inside of a train station. It's not about "loveliness", it's about mass movement of people and providing space and amenities for them while they are moving.



IMO the "balcony" has a single purpose - opening up the office space above the current concessions so that that too can be used for retail units.



> Besides, have you seen the trains they put through that station? *shudder*



No trains are put "through" Waterloo Main, rich!, it's a *terminus*!


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 9, 2011)

laptop said:


> Does that mean destroying the warren of tunnels underneath the concourse? I keep finding more...


They go under all the original platforms too, and there are/were little locked rooms everywhere (used to mooch through there with a torch and camera loaded with fast film back in the mid-80s. Some of the locks and padlocks had decades of rust on them). The British Rail pistol club had their range down there too!


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 9, 2011)

cybertect said:


> I must admit I think it's preferable to the clutter of shops on the concourse if they do go permanently. Euston and Victoria have been much improved since they cleared away the florists, etc.
> 
> Happens I've recently scanned some pics I took in March 1990 for a final year paper on design of urban transport systems.
> 
> ...



I'm going to have to trawl through my box of old negs one day, because I took a similar pic (midway across the width of the concourse, just past the entrance to the tube) in (IIRC) 1982, a year or so before the concourse was terrazzo'd. IIRC there was a Loyds Bank to the left of where you would have taken that, then the main entrance, and a small sub-branch of WHS behind you.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 9, 2011)

teuchter said:


> Looks like much of the space saved by removing the kiosks will be taken up with the escalators up to the balcony and it looks like there's some kind of new kiosk thing in the middle under the clock.
> 
> Somehow I feel this is more about creating extra retail space than making the concourse work better for passengers.



Highly likely. A lot of that office space over the current retail outlets used to be taken up with station management and staffrooms for the various tech workers who operated out of the station (S & T etc). If it's not earning money for Network Rail at the mo, they'll be keen to put it to work.


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## teuchter (Oct 9, 2011)

In twenty or thirty years' time there will be a revamp of Waterloo and the balcony will be removed and everyone will celebrate the space being restored to its former glory, a bit like the upcoming removal of all the stuff they tacked onto the front of Kings Cross in the 70s.

People will wonder why people of the early 21st century allowed the station to be defaced in this way, in the interests of revenue generation.


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## bromley (Oct 9, 2011)

I have the misfortune to have to occasionally use. It's main problem is the entrance and exit to the platforms are next to each other and the train times are displayed in front of these entrances, resulting in a mass cram for the trains with some people stationary looking at the train times.

I don't think anything can be done to sort this out!


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## spanglechick (Oct 9, 2011)

teuchter said:


> In twenty or thirty years' time there will be a revamp of Waterloo and the balcony will be removed and everyone will celebrate the space being restored to its former glory, a bit like the upcoming removal of all the stuff they tacked onto the front of Kings Cross in the 70s.
> 
> People will wonder why people of the early 21st century allowed the station to be defaced in this way, in the interests of revenue generation.


what former glory? it's a horrible, ugly station.


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## what (Oct 9, 2011)

teuchter said:


> In twenty or thirty years' time there will be a revamp of Waterloo and the balcony will be removed and everyone will celebrate the space being restored to its former glory, a bit like the upcoming removal of all the stuff they tacked onto the front of Kings Cross in the 70s.
> 
> People will wonder why people of the early 21st century allowed the station to be defaced in this way, in the interests of revenue generation.



I think the reason the works at Kings X are happening are many one being that the bit being demolished only had temporary planning permission which I believe ran out in the late 1990's.


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## teuchter (Oct 10, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> what former glory? it's a horrible, ugly station.


The only ugly bits are the things added in the 70s/80s - the kiosks and the stuff above the ticket gate line mentioned earlier with the advertising hoardings etc. Nothing wrong with the original parts of the building. The glass roof looks good since they cleaned it up a couple of years back. Maybe you've never stopped to look around you?


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 10, 2011)

teuchter said:


> In twenty or thirty years' time there will be a revamp of Waterloo and the balcony will be removed and everyone will celebrate the space being restored to its former glory, a bit like the upcoming removal of all the stuff they tacked onto the front of Kings Cross in the 70s.



I'm not sure that Waterloo was ever particularly glorious, although the architecture is a damn good exemplar of its kind, and I suspect that the architects of the "balcony" will factor into the design how remediable the alterations will be.



> People will wonder why people of the early 21st century allowed the station to be defaced in this way, in the interests of revenue generation.



IMHO it was "defaced" long ago, when they sand-blasted away the steam-age sooting on the brickwork back in 1984.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 10, 2011)

bromley said:


> I have the misfortune to have to occasionally use. It's main problem is the entrance and exit to the platforms are next to each other and the train times are displayed in front of these entrances, resulting in a mass cram for the trains with some people stationary looking at the train times.
> 
> I don't think anything can be done to sort this out!



This may be part of why they're contemplating putting in a mezzanine/the balcony - to increase the mobility of passengers/create flow rather than have static queues.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 10, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> what former glory? it's a horrible, ugly station.



The main entrance has a certain grandeur (plus the memorial plaques, one of which lists one of my great-grandads), and there are features of the station that are great (and quite a few that have been removed over the years), but on the whole it is what it is - a fairly utilitarian train station rather than a grand folly like some of the north London termini.


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## teuchter (Oct 10, 2011)

Passed through Waterloo this morning and had a proper look at it. I do think the concourse is impressive - big high glass roof letting lots of natural light in, and the long sweep of the slightly curved brick/stone facade running along the back of it. Even if the style of the building is not especially unusual or remarkable, really it's a nice, functional, cleanly designed space. Compare with the mish-mash that is Victoria (which is really two stations stuck together) for example. Waterloo has all the platforms visible from one place.

Having said that I can sort of understand why some people have described it as ugly and even compared it to Birmingham New Street (to which my first reaction was ). I think it's because all the junk that's been built over the taket gate line and which obscures the view into the also impressive glass-roofed structure that covers the platforms. Then there are all the kiosks and the clutter of signage and other stuff that's been allowed to accrue on the facade running along the opposite side.






If an effort was made to clean up all that stuff then I am confident it would feel different even to those who don't pay much attention to their surroundings and it would be a massive improvement.

But what they are doing seems to be exactly the wrong thing to do. It's just going to add a load more visual clutter and it's completely insensitive to the nature of that space.

Here's where the new balcony is going to crashing across in front of one of the entrance/exit arches (you can see where they've cut out a bit of the stone facing to allow for new supports) -






And it's going to crash across here as well -






One of the visualisations seems to imply a load of new stuff on the Lower Marsh side of the station where the taxi ramp comes past (are they going to close that and build on it??):






So you won't see this any more






- I've always thought its' quite nice to see that arched metalwork/glazing at the end of the concourse. What it's being replaced by doesn't look like an improvement to me.


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## teuchter (Oct 10, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> why they're contemplating putting in a mezzanine/the balcony



They aren't contemplating it - it's started already!


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## teuchter (Oct 10, 2011)




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## teuchter (Oct 10, 2011)




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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2011)

That concourse is full of kiosks!


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## teuchter (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm not claiming it ain't!

You can see how different it feels with the view through to the platforms though.


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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2011)

Indeed. That really bugs me at liverpool street too


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## spanglechick (Oct 10, 2011)

teuchter said:


> The only ugly bits are the things added in the 70s/80s - the kiosks and the stuff above the ticket gate line mentioned earlier with the advertising hoardings etc. Nothing wrong with the original parts of the building. The glass roof looks good since they cleaned it up a couple of years back. _*Maybe you've never stopped to look around you?*_


That's such a patronising attitude: that anyone who disagrees with you mustn't have looked properly. I've travelled through waterloo station my entire life, i'm not a recent incomer to london, and i've spent days worth of hours on the concourse there - and i promise i've seen it in lots of detail.

It has a not especially remarkable sectioned facade of which there are many, many similar buildings around the city. The elongated narrowness of the concourse makes it unpleasant to use and hectic with pedestrians (compare to Victoria) and yes it has a glass ceiling, but even in those old photos it just looks  like a glass shed. (I like the ironwork at the gates, and the vintage clothes, but the architecture is unedifying).  I would agree that removing the hordings above the gates would add a lightness, but where would the departure boards go? there isn't somewhere obvious like at London Bridge, due to the length of the bloody concourse.



ViolentPanda said:


> The main entrance has a certain grandeur (plus the memorial plaques, one of which lists one of my great-grandads), and there are features of the station that are great (and quite a few that have been removed over the years), but on the whole it is what it is - a fairly utilitarian train station rather than a grand folly like some of the north London termini.



i did say in my first post that the main entrance is glorious. it is, i love it.


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## lang rabbie (Oct 10, 2011)

teuchter said:


> One of the visualisations seems to imply a load of new stuff on the Lower Marsh side of the station where the taxi ramp comes past (are they going to close that and build on it??):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That glazing was only reinstated in the last ten years or so - until at least the mid 90s the Lower Marsh end of the concourse was cluttered up with the wreckage of a former 1930s News Cinema that used to be cantilevered over the taxi road.




			
				Edith's Streets said:
			
		

> news cinema 1934 by Alister MacDonald. the auditorium was actually outside the station perimeter wall while the 'show facade' and foyer were inside. The paybox and entrance were on the station concourse. At the top of the stairs was a 245 seat auditorium. resting on stanchions, two in the station and two outside all of them going not only down to the taxi road but down to the viaduct on which the whole station is built. Due to the small of space, the projection box was on the roof and the projection beam was angled down a chute with a transparent screen at the far end which reflected the image back through a mirror.


Source - I think "Edith" is/was a poster here!


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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> i did say in my first post that the main entrance is glorious. it is, i love it.



A damn shame that it faces onto a grubby set of steps, a taxi road and then a viaduct. Teuchter - you'll know: Which came first? The entrance to Waterloo or the tracks to Charing Cross? Cos the latter really spoil the former.


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## lang rabbie (Oct 10, 2011)

BTW You're all coming to this a bit late:

twitter.com/*langrabbie*/status/59019535616970752


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## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2011)

teuchter said:


> London Transport's generally exemplary approach to design


the sort of organisation which could fuck up (among others) old street station and destroy (among other things) the astoria doesn't, imo, have a 'generally exemplary approach to design.


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## lang rabbie (Oct 10, 2011)

Crispy said:


> A damn shame that it faces onto a grubby set of steps, a taxi road and then a viaduct. Teuchter - you'll know: Which came first? The entrance to Waterloo or the tracks to Charing Cross? Cos the latter really spoil the former.



The story I was told was that London & South Western Railway were daft enought to believe that the London County Council were serious about their plan of "civic improvements" to get rid of the eyesore Hungerford Railway Bridge and replace it with a road bridge - with Charing Cross station replaced by a massively expanded Waterloo East.

Hence they built the Victory Arch at Waterloo to face a grand new 'rond point'.   They failed to allow for the fact that most of Whitehall's bowler hatted brigade had season tickets to Charing Cross and didn't fancy being forced to walk/take the tube, just so that the Thames could be beautified.


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## kabbes (Oct 10, 2011)

I have to use Waterloo twice a day, every day.  And it's shit.  Really, really shit.  It crowds up incredibly quickly, with people standing to wait for trains exactly in the way of those trying to get to their trains.  I don't know if these plans will sort it out, but it can't get much worse.


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## Crispy (Oct 10, 2011)

"generally"

The font, the map, the maroon tiled stations, the southern northern line stations, the JLE stations. All excellent and some design classics.

No Astoria demolition = no crossrail, mind.

The concourse at Waterloo is not big enough for the number of people it has to hold. Removing the shops and putting them upstairs should help some. Extending the concourse over the old E* check-in area and re-opening those platforms wouldn't hurt either.


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## teuchter (Oct 11, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> That's such a patronising attitude: that anyone who disagrees with you mustn't have looked properly. I've travelled through waterloo station my entire life, i'm not a recent incomer to london, and i've spent days worth of hours on the concourse there - and i promise i've seen it in lots of detail.
> 
> It has a not especially remarkable sectioned facade of which there are many, many similar buildings around the city. The elongated narrowness of the concourse makes it unpleasant to use and hectic with pedestrians (compare to Victoria) and yes it has a glass ceiling, but even in those old photos it just looks like a glass shed. (I like the ironwork at the gates, and the vintage clothes, but the architecture is unedifying). I would agree that removing the hordings above the gates would add a lightness, but where would the departure boards go? there isn't somewhere obvious like at London Bridge, due to the length of the bloody concourse.



I was just reacting to your comments calling it "horrible" and "ugly" and comparing it to Birmingham New Street. This didn't seem to match the reality as I perceived it so I was trying to understand why someone would have such an extreme reaction. Having had a look at it this morning I realised how much the hoardings and crappy signage and so on dominate the view for a regular passenger waiting for trains, as opposed to mine being an architecture/railway spod (and not using it for rush hour commuting) and noticing stuff like the roof and how it's been cleaned and the fact that there isn't really any other concourse like it in the UK in terms of its purely spatial qualities.

The concourse is only as long as it is because of the sheer number of platforms (the most of any single terminus in the UK). Victoria has the same number of platforms but they are split over two concourses and two departure boards. I think it's debatable that the Waterloo concourse is narrower than that at Victoria, or the eastern side of Victoria anyway. Crowds stack up in Victoria in a similar way at rush hour.

Anyway, the fact is that it's the busiest and biggest railway terminus in Europe's largest city and nearly all the services are commuter ones so I guess that's why it gets crowded. If this new balcony was going to really sort out the congestion, and there weren't any other options, then sacrificing the quality of the space and architecture could perhaps be justified. But like I said in the original post it seems to me this is really about providing more retail space. If the problem at the moment is people standing waiting for trains blocking the platform entrances then I don't see how this is going to make much difference. People waiting for trains aren't going to stand upstairs instead, are they?

As for removing the advertising hoardings, the departure boards could stay. Most of the length is just taken up with adverts, not the departure boards.


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## teuchter (Oct 11, 2011)

Crispy said:


> A damn shame that it faces onto a grubby set of steps, a taxi road and then a viaduct. Teuchter - you'll know: Which came first? The entrance to Waterloo or the tracks to Charing Cross? Cos the latter really spoil the former.



I'll go along with Lang Rabbie's description of events.

Whenever I go in that entrance I think that it could surely be improved as a pedestrian experience (even without removing the Charing Cross tracks). The road / crossing layout is a bit of a mess there.

I have a vague memory that I've noticed the old BR logo features on the doors there somehow...are the door handles cast in the shape of it or something? I know I enjoy seeing it when I go through anyway.


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## teuchter (Oct 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I have to use Waterloo twice a day, every day. And it's shit. Really, really shit. It crowds up incredibly quickly, with people standing to wait for trains exactly in the way of those trying to get to their trains. I don't know if these plans will sort it out, but it can't get much worse.



I suspect the experience might change from waiting for your train in a congested railway station to waiting for your train in something more like a congested shopping centre, which I would classify as getting worse, unless it really does improve the overcrowding.


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## teuchter (Oct 11, 2011)

lang rabbie said:


> That glazing was only reinstated in the last ten years or so - until at least the mid 90s the Lower Marsh end of the concourse was cluttered up with the wreckage of a former 1930s News Cinema that used to be cantilevered over the taxi road.
> 
> Source - I think "Edith" is/was a poster here!



Ah, perhaps that explains the weird bit of structure up there at that end.

edit - just looked at the image you linked to. How bizarre.


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## kabbes (Oct 11, 2011)

teuchter said:


> I suspect the experience might change from waiting for your train in a congested railway station to waiting for your train in something more like a congested shopping centre, which I would classify as getting worse, unless it really does improve the overcrowding.


Maybe you're right, and that really would suck.

They need to concentrate on clearing the pathways for the people trying to get to the platforms.  Not give us pointless shops.


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## temper_tantrum (Oct 11, 2011)

The front entrance is hideous at the moment, a terrible waste. They need to get rid of the lanes of traffic outside and create a pedestrian plaza-type thingy.
Is that in any way feasible?!


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## Crispy (Oct 11, 2011)

temper_tantrum said:


> The front entrance is hideous at the moment, a terrible waste. They need to get rid of the lanes of traffic outside and create a pedestrian plaza-type thingy.
> Is that in any way feasible?!



You need _somewhere_ for a taxi rank. At the moment, that's round the 'back' on the top top deck, so there has to be a road there. Without some fairly major redevelopment of the surrounding buildings, there isn't really anywhere else for it to go. And then you've got the Charing Cross tracks immediately in front of that road. It could certainly be improved, but 'plaza' would be stretching the term


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## temper_tantrum (Oct 11, 2011)

The taxi rank is out the back by Station Approach Road, isn't it? Couldn't the taxis be re-directed to exit via Spur Road?
I'm talking about the front (the side nearest the river), with the stone arched entrance where the war memorial is. Steps up into the station, etc. Hideous traffic junction, really scuzzy feel to it, great waste of what could be a lovely entrance.


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## lang rabbie (Oct 11, 2011)

The current cruddy traffic layout in front of Victory Arch was designed to accommodate need for taxis to be able to turn into the the now closed "low level" taxi rank outside the Eurostar terminal.  Eurostar cut two "temporary" arches through the bottom of the Elizabeth House tower in the early 1990s - on the assumption that this building - denounced by John Betjeman as the most boring in London - would soon be redeveloped by the then owners of the site P&O and the road layouts would be sorted out as part of that scheme.

The best part of twenty years have elapsed; Eurostar has moved to St Pancras; and there have been at least three different plans for the redevelopment of Elizabeth House - but the layout for pedestrians moving between the Victory Arch and York Road remains as confused as ever.


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## teuchter (Oct 12, 2011)

Not to mention the fact that the Eurostar terminal itself and all the platforms within are sitting there unused and empty. And as far as I can make out, no concrete plans or timescale for what's going to happen to it.


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## laptop (Oct 12, 2011)

teuchter said:


> Not to mention the fact that the Eurostar terminal itself and all the platforms within are sitting there unused and empty. And as far as I can make out, no concrete plans or timescale for what's going to happen to it.



Erm, there's a stage set for _The Railway Children_ in there. Saw it just an hour ago...


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## twentythreedom (Oct 12, 2011)

Great pics. All the cars on platforms reminded me of going on the sleeper / motorail train from King's X to Scotchland when I was a nipper - Had to drive the car onto a wagon out the back of KX somewhere then get all tucked in to bed and then woken with tea and biscuits in the morning.

((((sleeper trains and motorail))))


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## teuchter (Oct 12, 2011)

laptop said:


> Erm, there's a stage set for _The Railway Children_ in there. Saw it just an hour ago...



I don't think that really counts as productive "use" of a bunch of railway platforms immediately adjacent to a major terminus with significant capacity problems...


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## Crispy (Oct 12, 2011)

LRC covered this: http://www.londonreconnections.com/...reasing-services-on-the-south-west-main-line/ - a possible plan would be to combine 8-car trains from outside London into a 16-car formation at Basingstoke or Woking, then running non-or-one-stop into Waterloo (any intermediate stops would need a LOT of platform extension). Would require a new flyover after Clapham Junction to get the tracks onto the right side of the station (and probably the demolition of the old South London Line link used by Eurostar)


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## teuchter (Oct 12, 2011)

I seem to remember talk at one time of running services from the SLL into Waterloo (instead of Victoria), using the old E* flyover. That obviously doesn't solve the problems at Waterloo, unless there was some way of diverting some current Waterloo services into Victoria to use the freed-up capacity there. Or something.

Anyway, who really cares about Waterloo services; they are mostly from rubbish places anyway.


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## bromley (Oct 12, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> Great pics. All the cars on platforms reminded me of going on the sleeper / motorail train from King's X to Scotchland when I was a nipper - Had to drive the car onto a wagon out the back of KX somewhere then get all tucked in to bed and then woken with tea and biscuits in the morning.
> 
> ((((sleeper trains and motorail))))


I once got the sleeper train home from Scotland at the crack of dawn. My teacher didn't believe my excuse for being late!


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 15, 2011)

Not bothered about the balcony that much, if it helps folk get through the station at peak times I'll be all for it, can take over 5 minutes to get from one end to the other of an evening. But them old pics really bring home the utter disgrace that the advertising boards above the entrance to the platforms are.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 15, 2011)

teuchter said:


> Anyway, who really cares about Waterloo services; they are mostly from rubbish places anyway.


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## davesgcr (Oct 17, 2011)

What would Sir Herbert Walker say - railway obsessives can Google it !


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## teuchter (Oct 24, 2011)

I noticed today that there is some kind of monolith being constructed *behind* the ticket gate line (ie on the platform side). Between platforms 11 and 12 if I remember correctly. What's that all about?


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## teuchter (Jun 29, 2012)

So, the balcony thing is half-built now, and looks as rubbish as predicted.

They seem to be constructing a new kiosk in the middle of the concourse at the lower level as well; not sure how that fits with the principle of making more space at concourse level.




teuchter said:


> I noticed today that there is some kind of monolith being constructed *behind* the ticket gate line (ie on the platform side). Between platforms 11 and 12 if I remember correctly. What's that all about?


 
For the record this is a Boots store now.


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## gamma globulins (Jun 29, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I noticed today that there is some kind of monolith being constructed *behind* the ticket gate line (ie on the platform side). Between platforms 11 and 12 if I remember correctly. What's that all about?





teuchter said:


> For the record this is a Boots store now.


 
That' a pity, I was hoping for something like this...


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## cybertect (Jun 29, 2012)

gamma globulins said:


> That' a pity, I was hoping for something like this...


 
# Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do
# I'm half crazy, lost outside Waterloo

"ALL THESE STATIONS ARE YOURS - EXCEPT EARLSFIELD - ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE"

etc.


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## hipipol (Jun 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Long-term, there are hand-wavy plans to put the concourse at ground level, with elevator access to the platforms (like St. Pancras). This would also allow the re-instatement of the tracks to London Bridge and beyond.


 
Re-instalment of the tracks?
Its always been a terminus surely?
Or did the tracks currently serving Charing Cross once surge to Putney and beyond?????


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## Bungle73 (Jun 29, 2012)

hipipol said:


> Re-instalment of the tracks?
> Its always been a terminus surely?
> Or did the tracks currently serving Charing Cross once surge to Putney and beyond?????


There used to be a branch from the Waterloo East line through to the main station.  You can still see evidence of it.


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## lang rabbie (Jun 29, 2012)

The former railway bridge is below and to the north of the footbridge between Waterloo and Waterloo East.  The map suggests it only ever carried a single track line.


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## Crispy (Jun 29, 2012)

The tracks were embedded in the concourse floor, so they had to put barriers out whenever a train was due to go through. Sounds like an operational nightmare, and it only lasted 10 years or so IIRC. An under-track concourse would make it much easier, but that's no small project.


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## teuchter (Jun 29, 2012)

It's hard to see what the benefits would be of reinstating a link through to London Bridge. It's not like the bit between Charing Cross and London Bridge (or London Bridge itself) has lots of spare capacity waiting to be used up...


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## Crispy (Jun 29, 2012)

You're right, of course  Thameslink is a much better use of through paths from London Bridge anyway.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 29, 2012)

When are they gonna get round to opening up the Eurostar platforms then? Every morning there's queues of trains waiting for platforms, yet 5 or 6 stand idle???


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## hipipol (Jun 30, 2012)

Well I never knew that!!!!
Thanks to all, the map and the image image I now have in my head of 19thC steam hauled train moving slowly over the concourse.....
The Victorians, mad as a box of badgers


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## teuchter (Jul 31, 2012)

So, the thing is seemingly finished now and it's as bad as I expected it would be. It looks worse in real life than in the renderings in the OP.



It's graceless, banal, cheap, flimsy and the detailing is rubbish. Note the central bulge containing retail protruding into the supposedly cleared concourse space.

The view of the sweeping facade along the back of the concourse is basically trashed. The old station building might not be one of London's great architectural wonders but it doesn't deserve this. The "balcony" looks like it's been shipped in from a business park in Basingstoke and it's not in any way good enough for one the capital's most important arrival points. It would be even more embarrassing if the Eurostar still arrived here.

Shame on you, Network Rail.


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## editor (Jul 31, 2012)

I saw it last week. It's horrid.


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## teuchter (Jul 31, 2012)

This we can agree on.


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## teuchter (Apr 26, 2013)

So now there is scaffolding all along above the ticket gate line. It would be overly optimistic to hope this means they are going to open it all up right? I'm guessing it'll just be newer, bigger advertising hoardings.


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## salem (Apr 26, 2013)

The biggest travesty was getting rid of the bay windows at Burger King

((Waterloo BK))

Waterloo is a weird place, I always seem to get lost and the exits are hidden away and transport you to mystical places far away from where you expect them to take you. And it's not like a regular building where if you come out the wrong door you walk around to the next one. It's like each of the entrance/exits are on tentacles away from the station concourse. Nightmare.

And I went to the toilet there the other week. After years of jumping the barriers of toilets in train stations as a point of principle I've decided that actually the NR toilets are fairly well kept compared to train station toilets in other countries so despite paying a fortune for train tickets and toilets being a fairly basic facility I've come to think fair enough, better then them having needles and that. Put my quid in the change machine and got 5 x 20p's back. This for a toilet that costs 30p and offers no change. Cheeky bastards! French bloke behind me had the same thing happen to him too so we just jumped it.


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## quimcunx (Apr 26, 2013)

salem said:


> The biggest travesty was getting rid of the bay windows at Burger King
> 
> ((Waterloo BK))
> 
> Waterloo is a weird place, I always seem to get lost and the exits are hidden away and transport you to mystical places far away from where you expect them to take you. And it's not like a regular building where if you come out the wrong door you walk around to the next one. It's like each of the entrance/exits are on tentacles away from the station concourse. Nightmare.


 
They do all seem to exist in different parallel universes.  Some doors have two dimensions; an exit dimension and an entrance dimension.   Some only have one. I've either only ever used them to enter the station or I've only ever used them to exit the station and I have no idea how to find them the other way round. 

I have recently discovered how to get from this* entrance to the 59 bus stop without having to enter the station and try 3 or 4  exits before stumbling on the correct one. 

*
*


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## Pgd (Apr 26, 2013)

quimcunx said:


> They do all seem to exist in different parallel universes. Some doors have two dimensions; an exit dimension and an entrance dimension. Some only have one. I've either only ever used them to enter the station or I've only ever used them to exit the station and I have no idea how to find them the other way round.
> 
> I have recently discovered how to get from this* entrance to the 59 bus stop without having to enter the station and try 3 or 4 exits before stumbling on the correct one.


 
Haha, love it!  So true.  I sometimes come into Waterloo and get the 521 through the Strand underpass (still find that much more exciting than I should ) and noticed that everyone else was emerging from a tunnel right behind the bus-stop.  Took me ages to work out where the other end was.


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## Balham (Apr 26, 2013)

temper_tantrum said:


> The taxi rank is out the back by Station Approach Road, isn't it? Couldn't the taxis be re-directed to exit via Spur Road?
> I'm talking about the front (the side nearest the river), with the stone arched entrance where the war memorial is. Steps up into the station, etc. Hideous traffic junction, really scuzzy feel to it, great waste of what could be a lovely entrance.


To get to the cab rank, from Bayliss Road, Spur Road, R/A leave by Cab Road. Rank at front of station.
Or from Addington Street, left Station Approach Road, R/A leave by Cab Road. To leave rank, straight ahead Station Approach, jct Station Approach or U turn to leave by Cab Road heading back toward roundabout and Spur Road*.


U turn for Cab Road and those going straight on heading for Station Approach and York Road.

There is a story though, folklore or . . . . . that after the first world war there were a lot of men that came back from the front and did the knowledge. There were a lot of cabbies. To be sure of getting a far from the boat train from Southampton which arrived at 09h00 they would start ranking up at 05h00 or there abouts under the station. There was a lot of space under there (like at St Pancras pre Eurostar if anyone remembers Doug Sherry's under the station).


As it was.




_*Hoping that it has not changed in the meantime._


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 30, 2013)

salem said:


> And I went to the toilet there the other week. After years of jumping the barriers of toilets in train stations as a point of principle I've decided that actually the NR toilets are fairly well kept compared to train station toilets in other countries so despite paying a fortune for train tickets and toilets being a fairly basic facility I've come to think fair enough, better then them having needles and that. Put my quid in the change machine and got 5 x 20p's back. This for a toilet that costs 30p and offers no change. Cheeky bastards! French bloke behind me had the same thing happen to him too so we just jumped it.


 
Take a short stroll to Waterloo East and the bogs on the middle platforms are free. No good for jacking up as they have UV lighting, but a free shit is not to be sniffed at.


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## quimcunx (Apr 30, 2013)

I wouldn't sniff at it.


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## Dan U (Apr 30, 2013)

quimcunx said:


> They do all seem to exist in different parallel universes. Some doors have two dimensions; an exit dimension and an entrance dimension. Some only have one. I've either only ever used them to enter the station or I've only ever used them to exit the station and I have no idea how to find them the other way round.


 
this is so, so true.

i still have no idea how i would get from that entrance in your picture to the Wellington Pub entrance without going back through the station.

whole place is a tardis.


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## teuchter (Apr 30, 2013)

Dan U said:


> this is so, so true.
> 
> i still have no idea how i would get from that entrance in your picture to the Wellington Pub entrance without going back through the station.


Walk down the steps, across the zebra crossing, turn right just before the railway arches and you will see the Wellington pub at the end of the road. It's not terribly difficult.


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## kabbes (May 1, 2013)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Take a short stroll to Waterloo East and the bogs on the middle platforms are free. No good for jacking up as they have UV lighting, but a free shit is not to be sniffed at.


Good tip.

Although "short"?


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## Dynamo (May 6, 2013)

I don't think there is anything wrong with the new balcony at Waterloo station. It looks OK to me. By the way they need to do something with the old Eurostar terminal tracks, as they have been out of use for many years.


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## Bungle73 (May 6, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with the new balcony at Waterloo station. It looks OK to me. By the way they need to do something with the old Eurostar terminal tracks, as they have been out of use for many years.


I thought the plan was to convert them back for domestic services?


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## teuchter (May 6, 2013)

Dynamo said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with the new balcony at Waterloo station. It looks OK to me.


That's because you are a philistine.


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