# My midwifery career -over before its even started



## kalidarkone (Oct 16, 2012)

Ironic as I just delivered my 40th baby on Friday.....but then that's the easy part.
Clearly was not meant to be. I have been preparing for this outcome.

The midwifery degree has been the hardest thing I have ever done and I have given it my all.
I have run out of time-I have out standing competences that have not been signed off.

Fucking hard environment to work in -the bitching and meanness. They did not want me.

Its a double edged sword in that gutted that I wont get to earn how I want and I really loved the clinical side. On the other hand I can now get some paid work in a similar field  (at a lower rate) and get off the interest only mortgage and do my house up and have time to see my friends and most importantly have time with my mum who is terminally ill. And I do not have to do a dissertation although a part of me wanted the challenge.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 16, 2012)




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## Thora (Oct 16, 2012)

You'd have made a brilliant midwife 

I bet there's loads of call for doulas in Bristol though.


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## temper_tantrum (Oct 16, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Kali. For what it's worth, you have always struck me as an amazing, caring, knowledgeable person. I've read your posts on the baby threads over the years and they were always caring and useful and insightful. The break might be right for now, but maybe you can pick it up again later on? Don't lose hope, if it is where you want to go with your life.


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## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Kali.


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## weepiper (Oct 16, 2012)

Shit kali. Really sorry to hear that. Agree with Thora though, bet you could get plenty of doula work.


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## Blagsta (Oct 16, 2012)

Sorry to hear that


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## kalidarkone (Oct 16, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> Sorry to hear that Kali. For what it's worth, you have always struck me as an amazing, caring, knowledgeable person. I've read your posts on the baby threads over the years and they were always caring and useful and insightful. The break might be right for now, but maybe you can pick it up again later on? Don't lose hope, if it is where you want to go with your life.


 
Awww thanks TT.

I can t afford to pick it up later and have already given it 6 years -including the access course preceding the degree and the two years out.

I feel amazingly privileged to have had the experience that I have had and none of it has been a waste of time. 'Im still going to work in maternity -hopefully as a midwifery assistant on the community. I'm also going to look in to the doula thing-good money but the work is not frequent and as you have to be on call it is hard to have a 9-5 job alongside.


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## quimcunx (Oct 16, 2012)

Sorry to hear that, kali.  Is there anything you can appeal on?


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## Thora (Oct 16, 2012)

I noticed the other day that they are recruiting trainee assistant practitioners - I don't know if that is a route into getting the foundation degree and a job?  I think it was for January starts.


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## lizzieloo (Oct 16, 2012)

That sounds like it's not your fault at all  nothing can be done?

Even though I don't know you, as has been said, you do come across as someone that would make a great doula


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## FiFi (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm really sorry to hear this. I hope you find a role that suits you, and your life at present.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 16, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Kali, and sorry to hear about your mum


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## kalidarkone (Oct 16, 2012)

Thora said:


> I noticed the other day that they are recruiting trainee assistant practitioners - I don't know if that is a route into getting the foundation degree and a job? I think it was for January starts.


 
Where did you see that? Link?


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## Thora (Oct 16, 2012)

kalidarkone said:


> Where did you see that? Link?


It was on the NHS jobs website - www.jobs.nhs.uk


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## StoneRoad (Oct 16, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your Mun, Kali - and about the degree. Hope that you can find what suits you in the future. All the best.


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## toggle (Oct 16, 2012)




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## kalidarkone (Oct 16, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Sorry to hear that, kali. Is there anything you can appeal on?


 
I can submit extenuating circumstances-my ed psych report and also evidence regarding being really ill in the first year and then needing surgery before I could go back into the second year.. but even if the board accepted it the NMC would not as I can only take 5 years to complete the degree.


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## silverfish (Oct 16, 2012)

kalidarkone said:


> I can submit extenuating circumstances-my ed psych report and also evidence regarding being really ill in the first year and then needing surgery before I could go back into the second year.. but even if the board accepted it the NMC would not as I can only take 5 years to complete the degree.


 
keep the pressure on, how can they throw out someone that far down the line of training when they have a well publicised national shortage..

I'd be writing to my MP, the papers, CAB, unions etc the lot.

Keep battling as long as it doesn't ruin you physical/mental health


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## Belushi (Oct 16, 2012)

genuinely very sorry to hear that kali, although ive never met you irl feel like i've known you a long time, really hope it all works out.


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## QueenOfGoths (Oct 16, 2012)

So sorry to hear that kali  Hope things work out okay


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## Ground Elder (Oct 16, 2012)

that's crap.


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## two sheds (Oct 16, 2012)

sorry to hear that kali


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## Orang Utan (Oct 16, 2012)

What a kick in the teeth.
Sorry kali!


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## Mrs Magpie (Oct 16, 2012)

(((Kali)))


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## oryx (Oct 16, 2012)

StoneRoad said:


> Sorry to hear about your Mun, Kali - and about the degree. Hope that you can find what suits you in the future. All the best.


 
This. ^


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## kalidarkone (Oct 16, 2012)

silverfish said:


> keep the pressure on, how can they throw out someone that far down the line of training when they have a well publicised national shortage..
> 
> I'd be writing to my MP, the papers, CAB, unions etc the lot.
> 
> Keep battling as long as it doesn't ruin you physical/mental health


 
I'm tired in my head And admittedly I have a sense of relief, of freedom and am looking forward to earning some money-being able to go on holiday, to finally sort my house out cos I'm so ashamed of it I never have anyone round cos I have not been able to afford to maintain it properly.

Time to let it go and move on. It's just not meant to be.

As a student I had no power and the sad sick reality is if they do not want you to be a midwife you will not be one. I was on their radar from the first year-did not fit in...and they always only put me with senior midwives that have incredibly high standards. All the other students had band 6 midwives as mentors and I think that if I had ,had that I would have got through. There is also a terrible culture of bullying and women desperately falling over themselves to fit in.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm very sorry to read this Kali, I think everyone who read your posts knew how dedicated you were to it. I'm glad you can see an alternative path now though and have future plans to look forwards to and more time with your loved ones. You've had quite a lot on lately, I hope you take some of that time to relax and look back with satisfaction on all that you HAVE achieved; you have 40 births under your belt, that's certainly worth celebrating.


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## silverfish (Oct 16, 2012)

Sounds like you are better off/happier following your own path then. Good luck


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## Greebo (Oct 16, 2012)

(((Kali))) sorry you've had this after so much hard work and time and energy. It just doesn't seem right.

OTOH if you can still do what you're good at and are drawn to, that's what matters.


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## quimcunx (Oct 16, 2012)

Belushi said:


> genuinely very sorry to hear that kali, althpugh ibe never met you irl feel like i've known you a long tim, really hope it all works out.


 
Post pub posting. 

(((kali)))


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## gaijingirl (Oct 16, 2012)

Kali, I can't believe it!  You'd be a great midwife.  What a loss to the profession. 

Sorry - that probably doesn't make you feel any better but I wish it had worked out. 

I really really hope that it all leads to something even better for you - you deserve it.


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## oryx (Oct 16, 2012)

kalidarkone said:


> As a student I had no power and the sad sick reality is if they do not want you to be a midwife you will not be one. I was on their radar from the first year-did not fit in...and they always only put me with senior midwives that have incredibly high standards. All the other students had band 6 midwives as mentors and I think that if I had ,had that I would have got through. There is also a terrible culture of bullying and women desperately falling over themselves to fit in.


 
I spent time as a student nurse (general not midwifery) a long time ago when I left school, and this really resonated with me.


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## temper_tantrum (Oct 16, 2012)

Go with your instinct, and with the flow  
Sorry to sound all hippy about it  but I do really believe in that, in life in general


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## kalidarkone (Oct 16, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> Go with your instinct, and with the flow
> Sorry to sound all hippy about it  but I do really believe in that, in life in general


 
Are you me? I do too-there is something else out there for me.....


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## twentythreedom (Oct 16, 2012)

Shit happens  ... don't worry kali, you have your future ahead and the whole range of opportunities and possibilities it offers - the world is your lobster  anything is possible!


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## temper_tantrum (Oct 16, 2012)

kalidarkone said:


> Are you me? I do too-there is something else out there for me.....




When I've followed that maxim, I've ended up in good places that I never would have thought I'd be able to work in. So good luck with it, you deserve it  (I believe in karma too, and yeah I've had my arse bitten in my time as well  ).


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## Miss-Shelf (Oct 17, 2012)

Without wanting to give false hope i work ina uni and our team has had some discretion to extend the period in which to gain a degree. obv midwifery has clinical issues that may be too pressing to extend the time scale

i wish you all luck necessary to go forward from here. i have loved reading your caring and insightful posts about birth


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## kalidarkone (Oct 17, 2012)

Miss-Shelf said:


> Without wanting to give false hope i work ina uni and our team has had some discretion to extend the period in which to gain a degree. obv midwifery has clinical issues that may be too pressing to extend the time scale
> 
> i wish you all luck necessary to go forward from here. i have loved reading your caring and insightful posts about birth


 
Yeah the board has discretion -which is why I am putting in extenuating circumstances....but the nursing and midwifery council are the higher authority and it would be up to them and it is extremely unlikely they would give me an extra year -which is what I would need-because I am unable to continue in the third year as I have not passed the second (by a hair) and even if they did I would have to get an extra years bursary from the NHS.


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## kalidarkone (Oct 17, 2012)

temper_tantrum said:


> When I've followed that maxim, I've ended up in good places that I never would have thought I'd be able to work in. So good luck with it, you deserve it  (I believe in karma too, and yeah I've had my arse bitten in my time as well  ).


 
Arse bitten?


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## Dan U (Oct 17, 2012)

sorry to hear this


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## trashpony (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm really sorry to read this and can only echo what others have said - that you'll be a great loss to the profession. 

I hope you can use your training in some way that works for you.


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## wayward bob (Oct 17, 2012)

i'm really sorry to read this kali. but seeing how you're dealing with it, your positivity, your priorities, well, i can't imagine that you'll be anything less than brilliant, no matter where you go next. it sounds as though you're taking all kinds of understanding with you that will only serve you well, nothing wasted. and yeah, there are times when we can't put the world on hold, there's stuff we need to do right there and then. good luck x


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## Riklet (Oct 17, 2012)

that's rubbish, doesn't sound fair..

fwiw you sound like you're dedicated and passionate, so whatever else you do or try your hand at i'm betting you'll do great at.  also i hope you're proud of yourself and what you_ have_ achieved!


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## kalidarkone (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you everyone-all your support means a lot and is really helping.


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## RubyToogood (Oct 17, 2012)

kalidarkone said:


> I can submit extenuating circumstances-my ed psych report and also evidence regarding being really ill in the first year and then needing surgery before I could go back into the second year.. but even if the board accepted it the NMC would not as I can only take 5 years to complete the degree.


I always drag this up, but is there any disability discrimination angle there?

I agree with everyone else, it seems to me that you would have been a great midwife.


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## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2012)

Really sorry to hear this kali, i know all the hard work you put into this. Not to mention all the mental stress and worry.


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## _angel_ (Oct 17, 2012)

that's rubbish kali


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## geminisnake (Oct 17, 2012)

Really sorry to hear you're being kept out. Been there with Comm Ed years ago. We just don't fit their mould hun 
Sorry to hear about your mum too. xx


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## fractionMan (Oct 17, 2012)

Gutted for you


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## Biddlybee (Oct 17, 2012)

Sorry to hear about this kali, some good advice on this thread though x


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## temper_tantrum (Oct 17, 2012)

kalidarkone said:


> Arse bitten?



By karma. Me I mean. I was just trying to say that you put so many good vibes out into the world, you really do deserve to find the right thing in life


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## kalidarkone (Oct 17, 2012)

RubyToogood said:


> I always drag this up, but is there any disability discrimination angle there?
> 
> I agree with everyone else, it seems to me that you would have been a great midwife.


 
Well I would say that it was hard for me to have my learning needs met in the delivery suite environment. Even though I gave them stuff to read on working with dyslexic students. Aside from my personal circumstances -illness , having two years off getting in the way -it is a notoriously hard course and My biggest weakness is organisation -really struggle-seems mad that I chose to go into midwifery...but it has helped me be more organised.

But yeah as Gemini Snake said-I definitely did not fit the mold. I had 14 different mentors in the first year and then when I failed -they noticed me, blamed me and have focused on me ever since. Re read some of their comments today and they just did not want me there. They have done me a favor. However they did big me up on my interpersonal skills and the women did love me...but I needed more time in the management and clinical aspect.

So well douling (sp?) or pallative care....coming in or going out....

I think I will have an advantage being a doula with the training that I have had because I will understand all the medical speak.......


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## Plumdaff (Oct 17, 2012)

I definitely think you'd have a huge advantage as a doula. I also had my own (mostly class- related and to do with my course leader and local group I think) issues with the NCT but I did get some great advice and mates out of it (and an elective c-section heh heh) and I think someone positive, down to earth and with sound medical knowledge would be ideal as a course leader for them. It also might spread the word re: your doula skills. Maybe you could contact them and see how you can get involved?


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## Callie (Oct 17, 2012)

really sorry to hear this kali  but i have a feeling things will all work out for you x Dont take any of it as a personal knock back, consider it a re-routing, a change in direction!


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## Edie (Oct 17, 2012)

Fight for it girl


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## butchersapron (Oct 17, 2012)

Booze on me at the coup


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## kalidarkone (Oct 17, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Booze on me at the coup


*faints*


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## kalidarkone (Oct 17, 2012)

Edie said:


> Fight for it girl


 
Nah I'm done and feeling good!


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## Shirl (Oct 17, 2012)

Sorry it didn't work out kali. You sound like you're already moving on and looking for what suits you. I hope you find something soon and you can use all the skills you've learned. Best of luck to you


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## equationgirl (Oct 17, 2012)

I wish you all the best kali, you deserve it. I'm sure you will find something great that suits you - you are compassionate and kind


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## moonsi til (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm really sorry it hasn't worked out for you and all the pressure they have put you under. I really do wonder WTF is it with nurses/midwifes and having to be bitches? I am a registered nurse and managed to get through my student years largely unscathed and land OK but I have and do see monumental bitching and bullying.


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## oryx (Oct 17, 2012)

moonsi til said:


> I'm really sorry it hasn't worked out for you and all the pressure they have put you under. I really do wonder WTF is it with nurses/midwifes and having to be bitches? I am a registered nurse and managed to get through my student years largely unscathed and land OK but I have and do see monumental bitching and bullying.


 
Yes, I have never come across such bitchiness as when nursing.

Packing in nurse training was the best decision I ever made and I hope your experience is similar, kali.


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## kalidarkone (Oct 17, 2012)

It's good to get confirmation from the people working in nursing, re the bullying culture.....sometime you just wonder if you are being over sensitive....anyway thanked them all and left with my integrity. Will take the good stuff-as I did get lots of good stuff.

I just feel that I can now truly be myself rather then a contained, defended version.....


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## geminisnake (Oct 17, 2012)

I have midwifery badges upstairs(they were hubby's gran's) Do you want one??  They're only about 50 yrs old or so!


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## Thora (Oct 17, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> I definitely think you'd have a huge advantage as a doula. I also had my own (mostly class- related and to do with my course leader and local group I think) issues with the NCT but I did get some great advice and mates out of it (and an elective c-section heh heh) and I think someone positive, down to earth and with sound medical knowledge would be ideal as a course leader for them. It also might spread the word re: your doula skills. Maybe you could contact them and see how you can get involved?


Talking of the NCT, I think they are offering breastfeeding counsellor training in Bristol.  It's voluntary (you have to do some work voluntarily for them) but I reckon you could do private breastfeeding consultations as well.


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## wiskey (Oct 17, 2012)

Sorry to hear this Kali 

But I look forward to your re-emergence into the social scene


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## pennimania (Oct 18, 2012)

Only just read this and very sorry to do so 

Can only say that I hope it all works out in the end. Sounds like you might be well out of it.

I've always had a rose tinted view of midwifery that I begin to realise is probably totally wrong...


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## kalidarkone (Oct 18, 2012)

pennimania said:


> Only just read this and very sorry to do so
> 
> Can only say that I hope it all works out in the end. Sounds like you might be well out of it.
> 
> I've always had a rose tinted view of midwifery that I begin to realise is probably totally wrong...


 
Well it depends which bit of midwifery-I prefer community because you get the opportunity to build a relationship with the women and families, where as delivery suite sadly is like a conveyer belt Also you really get to know the other midwives as it is a small team, intense complex work that requires empathy and compassion for your colleagues as well as the women and their families. It is harder to switch off working in community because you are not handing over care to other staff like you do working in a shift pattern at the hospital. I remember the women I look after on community, but not the women I look after on delivery suite
But it is ironic that a huge part of midwifery is about support ,advocacy, compassion but not reflected in the way the staff treat each other or students.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2012)

moonsi til said:


> I'm really sorry it hasn't worked out for you and all the pressure they have put you under. I really do wonder WTF is it with nurses/midwifes and having to be bitches? I am a registered nurse and managed to get through my student years largely unscathed and land OK but I have and do see monumental bitching and bullying.


I used to drink in a hospital social club in the late '70s and early '80s, and a majority of the nurses I met were "into" their work, however exhausting it was, and not obsessed with promotion. This stands in stark contrast with nurses I've known over the last 15-20 years, some of whom see patient care as a messy but necessary phase of their career progression into nursing management, and the rubbishing of colleagues as a way to "get ahead". 
I'm not saying my observations of nurses are representative of nursing _per se_, but the focus does seem to have shifted.


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## Mation (Oct 20, 2012)

Kali, really good to hear that you're looking positively at this and I'm sure you'll find great work that you can enjoy as a result of having done the course. Sorry you've had such a tough time though  Glad you're out of it! x


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## mentalchik (Oct 20, 2012)

Sorry to hear this Kali.....it's their loss !


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2012)

mentalchik said:


> Sorry to hear this Kali.....it's their loss !


 
Damn right!
Once upon a time the NHS knew that the best people to work as healthcare professionals were those people who had a vocation - people like Kali - and wanted to be there, at the "coal face", helping make peoples' lives better. That's all been sacrificed on the altar of "professionalisation" and carer progression. It's sad as hell.


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## Miss-Shelf (Oct 20, 2012)

kalidarkone said:


> Well it depends which bit of midwifery-I prefer community because you get the opportunity to build a relationship with the women and families, where as delivery suite sadly is like a conveyer belt Also you really get to know the other midwives as it is a small team, intense complex work that requires empathy and compassion for your colleagues as well as the women and their families. It is harder to switch off working in community because you are not handing over care to other staff like you do working in a shift pattern at the hospital. I remember the women I look after on community, but not the women I look after on delivery suite
> But it is ironic that a huge part of midwifery is about support ,advocacy, compassion but not reflected in the way the staff treat each other or students.


I think this is because caring work with largely female workforces is seen as no big thing, something that can just be endlessly dished out without support, training or acknolwegement from the wider structure, nor does it need full recompense in this model

it is demanding, exhausting, exhilerating work predicated on complex emotional/cognitive processing


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## Miss-Shelf (Oct 20, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Damn right!
> Once upon a time the NHS knew that the best people to work as healthcare professionals were those people who had a vocation - people like Kali - and wanted to be there, at the "coal face", helping make peoples' lives better. That's all been sacrificed on the altar of "professionalisation" and carer progression. It's sad as hell.


if professionalisation is seen as progressing in management then it leads to the situation described

if professionalisation is seen as acknowledging the complex demands of caring work and a process of equiping practitioners with refletive skills to make considered choices not routine actions then professionalisation COULD support vocational work

(obv my process of professionalisation did nowt for my spelling, sorry)


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## miniGMgoit (Oct 20, 2012)

oryx said:


> I spent time as a student nurse (general not midwifery) a long time ago when I left school, and this really resonated with me.


Me too. I've never been treated so badly as when I've been on placement as a student nurse. The profession is fucked. They are their own worse enemy. I've just finished and will get a couple years of hospital under my belt then I'm leaving. The environment is toxic and full of utter cunts.


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## Plumdaff (Oct 20, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Damn right!
> Once upon a time the NHS knew that the best people to work as healthcare professionals were those people who had a vocation - people like Kali - and wanted to be there, at the "coal face", helping make peoples' lives better. That's all been sacrificed on the altar of "professionalisation" and carer progression. It's sad as hell.


 
I'm a nurse and I hope I'm not an utter cunt. I do think adult nursing is worse about bullying (I had an absolute shite time on my adult placement - but then again I could also tell you about my Older Adults placement) from my experience, there seems to be an old fashioned Hattie Jacques idea that your training should be a bitchfest trial from hell. Here in mental health the problem I think is more mentor complete inertia, although I may have just been lucky.

It doesn't help that the nursing career structure has been designed that if you get promoted and improve your pay that invariably moves in into a management role and away from patients. Rather than designing in a way that more experienced nurses can stay at the coal face, gaining ever more specialised knowledge and passing on their experience to other nurses without having to sacrifice getting better pay and better work/life balance those roles are in fact few and far between, and very minor managerial tasks are much more valued when assessing job roles than very complex patient care. This is the management obsessed nonsense of a society we live in, and were it up to me there would be far more opportunity to progress your career without having to leave patients behind or without having to work nights into your 50s and 60s. I was lucky enough to find a job which allowed career progression and a challenge and full time patient care but now I have a family the hours are way too punishing and I am having to sucumb to the lure of management. It's stupid, but that's the way they've designed the job 

However I don't think there was ever a golden age where NHS nurses were all delightful and vocational. From what I hear nurse training in the 1960s and 70s was vicious and a lot of the backbreaking work was not necessary (for example, where I did my adult placement the students all had to go round the wards making sure the pillow cases didn't have the flaps pointed towards the door. Because of sand getting in them in the fucking Crimean War. . This was the late nineties) Nurses aren't all Florence Nightingale and they shouldn't have to toil away without any career progression, and without decent pay, just because we have entered a very vocational profession which is undervalued and female dominated. We still pay nurses shit wages compared to most other developed nations. I love my job and largely derive my satisfaction from caring about people, but it shouldn't need to be and either/or (I'm not suggesting anyone was suggesting that, just the there is a bit of an 'angels' mentality about what nurses should be which isn't entirely helpful).

I could write more about nurse education. There is reams (there was a thread - there could be many), not least the clear drive to move the basic essential nursing work out of the hands of qualified nurses not just because of the cliched 'degree' nurse who won't do it, but actually so they can just have one qualified member of staff per ward and have everyone else unqualified on worse terms and conditions. My sister is an HCA and her trust is moving away from offering paid nurse training to training people to NVQ4 level and making them do everything but hand out meds, without anything like the pay of a band 5 nurse  . It's a disgrace and I am convinced at least 50% behind the move to a less hands on form of nursing. In mental health we are increasingly commisioners of care, rather than care providers ourselves, and I really don't like it.

Of course dedicated talented people like Kali should be able to qualify as nurses and midwifes and it's a fucking disgrace that a profession dedicated to health is so awful to its students and itself. We should be able to better balance the talent and art of nursing with the academic knowledge that you absolutely need. But it absolutely shouldn't be a choice between opportunities to learn and grow and get better paid. I want both, dammit


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## kalidarkone (Oct 21, 2012)

Even if I had made it on the mw course, no way would I be interested in management.

The other things that makes no sense and imo needs investigating is the waste of resources that is going into supporting the training of midwives-the drop out rate is high and even if one gets through the course and qualifies there is a further dropout rate and significant number of people going on to train as a health visitor. There is definitely a problem if you have taken time out of the course like I have and then come back-I think there should be more support or different rules maybe time wise for people that have to take time out for health reasons.

Im kind of wondering if at some point I'm going to feel like a complete failure and be really devastated.....but I dont think so!

The only thing is telling my mum and I will try to do that face to face, next week.


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## Red Cat (Oct 21, 2012)

lagtbd said:


> However I don't think there was ever a golden age where NHS nurses were all delightful and vocational. From what I hear nurse training in the 1960s and 70s was vicious and a lot of the backbreaking work was not necessary


 
Did you ever read Isabel Menzies Lyth on nurse training? It's a classic study commissioned in the 60s, I think, to look at nurse training and its very high drop out rates. It's the Tavistock human relations/ psychoanalytic model of analysis, which may or may not be your thing, but it's interesting that this problem goes way back. It's a while since I read it but the thrust of it is that dealing with sickness and death evokes anxiety which results in defensive systems of working that are ultimately alienating. Cynicism, scapegoating, in and out groups and bullying and burn out are all consequences.


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## oryx (Oct 21, 2012)

miniGMgoit said:


> Me too. I've never been treated so badly as when I've been on placement as a student nurse. The profession is fucked. They are their own worse enemy. I've just finished and will get a couple years of hospital under my belt then I'm leaving. The environment is toxic and full of utter cunts.


 
When I was nursing, approximately half my intake group left before the end of the first year.

Interesting post from lagbdt.


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## Arlarse (Oct 21, 2012)

You'll find as you have that a lot of these supposed 'caring jobs/roles' are full of nasty middle class careerists who are more than happy to shit on you to get a step up. That's how it is and unless you're prepared to act like them you won't fit in. So fuck them, what do you really want to do? Write a book, travel a bit or do something else..


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## Wilf (Oct 21, 2012)

Miss-Shelf said:


> Without wanting to give false hope i work ina uni and our team has had some discretion to extend the period in which to gain a degree. obv midwifery has clinical issues that may be too pressing to extend the time scale
> 
> i wish you all luck necessary to go forward from here. i have loved reading your caring and insightful posts about birth


 Hi Kali, I too work in a University and if this was a straight internal degree issue I'd be saying get the fuck to the student union, find out who is the specialist adviser there and push this as hard as you can.  I'm out of my depth when it comes to professional courses with outside body requirements - and you've probably been into all this.  _However_, if not (sorry, I haven't seen your previous posts/threads), get the fuck to the student union!  As far as I know, whilst Universities kow tow to professional bodies, it's still a 2 way relationship.  If they want to, they can put pressure on those bodies on your behalf.  Student union involvement, where there's at least the _implied_ threat of your shit treatment being exposed, might make them more willing to act for you.  If you've already been through all this, apologies.  However, from my experience of appeals and stuff, cases can be made if people feel they need to make a case.

A bit of my job at the moment is working with students from other schools who have fails or are seen as having issues with writing or the 'competencies' of the job.  These are almost all from students on health, nursing courses, who bring tales of distant staff, unwilling to engage with students.  The one thing I don't hear is 'right, let's spend some time on this, see how we can work it out'.  Anyway, if you want to fight it, I'd start with the student union - and explore what pressure the instituion can put on the NMC.  If you want to move on, good luck in whatever you do.


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## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2012)

I haven't experienced any bullying or bitching so far in my nurse training.  Its made a refreshing change from working in the voluntary sector as a drug worker, it was rife there.


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## kalidarkone (Oct 21, 2012)

I have not experienced any bullying. I have experienced a closing of the ranks and rather then them saying' lets do what we can to get this student through' it seems they have done the opposite. They would say and all concur that I'm not up to the required standard, which may or may not be true-the standards of the comps are very individual and subjective to the sign off mentor.


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## kalidarkone (Oct 21, 2012)

Wilf said:


> Hi Kali, I too work in a University and if this was a straight internal degree issue I'd be saying get the fuck to the student union, find out who is the specialist adviser there and push this as hard as you can. I'm out of my depth when it comes to professional courses with outside body requirements - and you've probably been into all this. _However_, if not (sorry, I haven't seen your previous posts/threads), get the fuck to the student union! As far as I know, whilst Universities kow tow to professional bodies, it's still a 2 way relationship. If they want to, they can put pressure on those bodies on your behalf. Student union involvement, where there's at least the _implied_ threat of your shit treatment being exposed, might make them more willing to act for you. If you've already been through all this, apologies. However, from my experience of appeals and stuff, cases can be made if people feel they need to make a case.
> 
> A bit of my job at the moment is working with students from other schools who have fails or are seen as having issues with writing or the 'competencies' of the job. These are almost all from students on health, nursing courses, who bring tales of distant staff, unwilling to engage with students. The one thing I don't hear is 'right, let's spend some time on this, see how we can work it out'.  Anyway, if you want to fight it, I'd start with the student union - and explore what pressure the instituion can put on the NMC. If you want to move on, good luck in whatever you do.


 
Thanks Wilf-I will discuss general flaws in the system regarding supporting students that have had difficulty with the programme leader...but I have put enough energy into this now and dont want it enough anymore to pursue it.


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## miniGMgoit (Oct 21, 2012)

oryx said:


> When I was nursing, approximately half my intake group left before the end of the first year.
> 
> Interesting post from lagbdt.



Well yes. Indeed. My intake was just over 180 internal students. There are less than 10 left. I'm not surprised either. 
I'm very saddened by the OP and can almost picture how it all panned out, blow for blow. I found that the atmosphere was far nicer in a community setting therefore that's where I'll be heading. 
I had countless similar experiences to the OP and learnt the warning signs. Our Uni was well equipped to deal with this stuff though and very supportive. When I sensed problems with a preceptor I would contact the Uni facilitators and get them to come and assess me instead. I learnt all this that hard way though. By the end I just made it very clear from the start what my expectations were of my preceptors. I know they didn't like it, being told what to do by a student, but they all needed reminding of their responsibilities towards students. Also they were not allowed to turn around at the end of the placement and say you were not good enough. They had to go through a process half way through with learning agreements and so forth. 
I would encourage other people to think very hard about doing the study though as it certainly tested my character a fair bit.


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