# Apple new product rumours and general news



## editor (Mar 15, 2012)

Following on from this 3,000+ post thread, let's hear your all-new, all-fresh Apple rumours and news!


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## sim667 (Mar 15, 2012)

Woop, first in!


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## teuchter (Mar 15, 2012)

The voting for the closing of the previous thread was completely rigged. No option to "not like".


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 16, 2012)

This type of shit we don't need, apparently a report about child workers at Foxconn with Apple in the frame was made up: http://www.businessinsider.com/this...-about-apple-and-foxconn-2012-3#ixzz1pIkNIRbt


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## maldwyn (Mar 17, 2012)

It looks like Mike Daisey attended the same school of journalism as Johann Hari 

Sunday's This American Life podcast should make interesting listening.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> It looks like Mike Daisey attended the same school of journalism as Johann Hari
> 
> Sunday's This American Life podcast should make interesting listening.



Indeed. This is really crap because it gives ammunition to those that don't want Apple scrutinized over this and damages the cause to get all companies using Foxconn etc to change...


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## elbows (Mar 17, 2012)

> The release also said Cathy Lee, the interpreter, had called into doubt an account of a meeting with a man who had been badly injured while making iPads.
> It said Mr Daisey had described letting the man "stroke" the tablet's screen "with his ruined hand" prompting the worker to remark: "It's a kind of magic."
> But it said that when questioned, Ms Lee had said "nothing of the sort occurred".


 



> Daisey said he stood by his work, *but on his blog* he added that he regretted the broadcast of a 39-minute monologue from his stage show.
> "What I do is not journalism. The tools of the theatre are not the same as the tools of journalism," he wrote."
> "This American Life is essentially a journalistic - not a theatrical - enterprise, and as such it operates under a different set of rules and expectations."



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17405011
Oh dear. I'm a fan of activism via theatre, but unless you are sending up the swine like the Yes Men do, you need to be careful with your labels and your platform. The thing about the guy with the ruined hand touching an iPad is rather sick, but in certain contexts it would be the right sort of sick that gets people thinking about the unpalatable truths of our world. But now its a shambles that has undermined the hosts show. Im not sure it has actually harmed the wider cause though.


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## elbows (Mar 17, 2012)

I was vaguely amused when reading this article about Japans perfect fruit stores. I was struck by the fact that in some ways they mirror the sort of thing Apple did much later in retail, a retail phenomenon that has in recent years seen much gushing praise and desire to replicate the success. Looks like the retail experts could have lifted these ideas much earlier if they had known where to look, same goes for attention to the product itself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-radio-and-tv-17352173


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## maldwyn (Mar 17, 2012)

(((Poor Ira)))


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 17, 2012)

elbows said:


> I was vaguely amused when reading this article about Japans perfect fruit stores. I was struck by the fact that in some ways they mirror the sort of thing Apple did much later in retail, a retail phenomenon that has in recent years seen much gushing praise and desire to replicate the success. Looks like the retail experts could have lifted these ideas much earlier if they had known where to look, same goes for attention to the product itself.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-radio-and-tv-17352173


 
That's mental!


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## souljacker (Mar 18, 2012)

Apparently, Apple are sitting on $100 billion, and they have an announcement tomorrow detailing what they are going to do with it.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...plans-for-100-billion-cash-pile-on-monday.ars

$100 fucking billion.


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## editor (Mar 18, 2012)

souljacker said:


> Apparently, Apple are sitting on $100 billion, and they have an announcement tomorrow detailing what they are going to do with it.
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...plans-for-100-billion-cash-pile-on-monday.ars
> 
> $100 fucking billion.


Perhaps they're going to donate it to charity and really make a difference.


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## Crispy (Mar 19, 2012)

They have about as much cash as they do market capitalisation. They could buy back all the shares and take the company private


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## sim667 (Mar 19, 2012)

If i was them I'd probably have a hell of a party with it.


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## editor (Mar 19, 2012)

Guardian readers have some suggestions: 


> Build a zoo for those hysterical nerds who camp outside their shops and act like they just won a gold medal when they emerge with the latest overpriced gizmo the next day.





> More and stronger suicide nets at the factories.





> They should give it to the rich 1% so they can trickle it down to the rest of us.





> They should certainly consider increasing their advertising budget. The Gaurdian never publishes any articles about them at the drop of a hat. It's a wonder anybody knows what Apple is.





> Spend more on planting advertorials masquerading as news articles in the technology sections of newspapers?


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/19/apple-spend-100-billion-cash-hoard


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## editor (Mar 19, 2012)

> Ahead of the today’s call, Apple has announced it plans to initiate a quarterly dividend of $2.65 per share sometime in the fourth quarter of its fiscal 2012, which starts July 1, 2012.
> 
> Furthermore, the company will start a $10 billion share repurchasing program, starting in Apple’s fiscal 2013, which starts on September 30, 2012.
> 
> ...


http://mashable.com/2012/03/19/apple-dividend/

So, zero real philanthropy from the richest tech company on the planet.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 19, 2012)

editor said:


> http://mashable.com/2012/03/19/apple-dividend/
> 
> So, zero real philanthropy from the richest tech company on the planet.


Are its analogous competitors philanthropic? The organisations / listed companies, that is, rather than CEOs (or whatever equivalent).


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## editor (Mar 19, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Are its analogous competitors philanthropic?


Yes. They all have charitable ventures. All except Apple who are the richest and profiting the most from worker exploitation.


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## Kanda (Mar 19, 2012)

They have been philanthropic, not as much as they should though.


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## editor (Mar 19, 2012)

Kanda said:


> They have been philanthropic, not as much as they should though.


Only in the manner of a multi-billionaire passing through a poor neighbourhood in a gold-plated Rolls Royce throwing a few pennies out of the window. It's disgusting.


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## mrs quoad (Mar 19, 2012)

editor said:


> Yes. They all have charitable ventures. All except Apple who are the richest and profiting the most from worker exploitation.


OK!


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## elbows (Mar 19, 2012)

I suspect that they think their products are some great gift to the world and that is enough, and that they have no vision beyond this at all.

Its not good, it would be nice to think that they could be shamed over this but I fear they are shameless. And as I ranted in the past, I don't find generous philanthropy to be all that much better than stingy philanthropy or no philanthropy, it doesn't make up for the exploitation and the sick way that entities can accumulate this much wealth in the first place.


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## pesh (Mar 19, 2012)

editor said:


> the richest tech company on the planet.


citation needed...



> In FY 2010, Samsung reported 280 trillion KRW ($258 billion) worth of revenue, and 30 trillion KRW ($27.6 billion) profit. However, they also do not contain the revenues of overseas subsidiaries, and no one knows about real revenues.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung


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## editor (Mar 19, 2012)

pesh said:


> citation needed...


It's pretty much universally accepted, no matter what wikipedia says.

Apple, the world’s richest technology company, announced its plans to spend $45 billion of its cash reserve over three years.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/apples-cash-plans-pay-dividend-10-billion-share-buyback/71821

Apple pips Exxon as world's biggest company
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/09/apple-pips-exxon-as-worlds-biggest-company

Apple Expands Lead Over Exxon as World's Richest Company
http://www.foxbusiness.com/technolo...ds-lead-over-exxon-as-worlds-richest-company/​ 
etc etc etc zzzzzzzzzz


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## editor (Mar 20, 2012)

Apple's cash mountain could reignite a Victorian age of engineering, argues physicist Brian Cox. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9707209.stm


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## Crispy (Mar 20, 2012)

pesh said:


> citation needed...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung


 
Samsung is also a heavy engineering company, and all sorts of other stuff. Not an apples to apples comparison. Pun intended right in your face


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## sim667 (Mar 20, 2012)

Samsung makes arms too dont they? Or arms components.

I tried helping my freind choose a camera the other day, she swore every brand i'd suggest was somehow linked or involved in arms. She didn't end up with a camera sufficed to say.

She then started to bleat at me that apple made arms, so I googled it, and I cant see that they do.


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## Kanda (Mar 20, 2012)

Samsung are also the worlds biggest shipbuilder.


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## sim667 (Mar 20, 2012)

Really? I thought it was the company who operate the Taisun.

Edit: No the company that operates it isnt, I havent managed to find anything to say samsung heavy industries is the biggest shipbuilder, from what I can see it looks like hyundai heavy industries. Shame its not kia, a 7 year warranty on a boat would even make me buy some kind of vessel

http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/korea-back-top-worlds-largest-shipbuilding-nation


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## Kanda (Mar 20, 2012)

Sorry, worlds 2nd largest shipbuilder according to their wiki page.


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## pesh (Mar 20, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Samsung is also a heavy engineering company, and all sorts of other stuff. Not an apples to apples comparison. Pun intended right in your face


 
thats kind of my point... different arms of the same company.

i just don't really see why Ed obsesses so much about one tech company that produces mp3 players, phones and computers but doesnt seem to be too fussed by another with the exact same business model that is also massively in bed with the oil and arms industries

both worth about $300 billion on paper, both donating fuck all in relation to their earnings to charity, both using Foxconn to assemble their goods.

Apple have loads of cash and are smug. Samsung are knocking out robots equipped with machine guns for $200K. basically they're Cyberdyne Systems in comparison 







http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/13/south-korea-enlists-armed-sentry-robots-to-patrol-dmz/


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## elbows (Mar 20, 2012)

I suspect its Apples particular flavour of bullshit, and the drooling reaction of a small segment of consumers which made editor focus on them with such passionate fury. The actual detail of what these companies do or do not do is a secondary concern that can be brushed to one side. As I have a low opinion of corporations in general and they deal with each other so much in supply chains etc, I cannot bring myself to invest that much energy to battle over this, I snipe from time to time and then go do something else, marvelling at how cool the tech is whilst also shaking my head at how much of it has its roots in military hardware.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 20, 2012)

editor said:


> Apple's cash mountain could reignite a Victorian age of engineering, argues physicist Brian Cox.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9707209.stm



Why wouldn't anyone want them to do that?


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## editor (Mar 20, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Samsung makes arms too dont they? Or arms components.


And Apple equip the US military.

The point is that Apple make the most money yet give back the least, despite their hugely powerful position of wealth, influence and coolness. 

And that riles me.


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## editor (Mar 20, 2012)

pesh said:


> both worth about $300 billion on paper, both donating fuck all in relation to their earnings to charity, both using Foxconn to assemble their goods.


Apple just give none, full stop. It's their stated company policy, as introduced by that smug selfish cunt Steve Jobs who dared use images of Gandhi to further his profits.

Samsung are a bunch of cunts too, but at least they give _something_ back.


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## elbows (Mar 21, 2012)

Despite my frequent sneering at your poorly disguised hatred for Apple and Jobs, I can fully appreciate why that particular type of person fills you with such hate. Both in word and in deed there is much not to admire about Jobs, to say the least.

Speaking more generally there are certain aspects of American cultural norms which have magnified a range of unattractive ideas and personalities for over a century. Combine a rather brash and vulgar (by closeted and understated European standards) manner of expression with the trappings of a country that was dominant and in the driving seat for so long, along with specific ideas about capitalism and freedom, and it is hardly any wonder that the last century is littered with a variety of ugly Americans that have consumed us with horror & hate.Some of them gave as well as took, but even then its reasonable to be unconvinced that what we got was worth the cost, if not to us then to someone else.

On the other hand faceless corporations can appear more sinister to me, and I've no idea why you wanted Jobs to be more philanthropic when we stop for a moment to consider what that would have done to his levels of smugness and the sugar-coated corporate image, let alone what wacky projects he'd probably have wanted to funnel money to if he had been that way inclined. Hell half my problem with the very concept of large amounts of wealth being accumulated is the power that comes from choosing how to spend it. Ideally such accumulations would be made impossible in the first place, but absent that eventuality I have to favour taxing away the money so that at least institutions which should in theory be accountable to people get to choose what to do with it.


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

elbows said:


> On the other hand faceless corporations can appear more sinister to me, and I've no idea why you wanted Jobs to be more philanthropic when we stop for a moment to consider what that would have done to his levels of smugness and the sugar-coated corporate image, let alone what wacky projects he'd probably have wanted to funnel money to if he had been that way inclined.


I want _all_ massively successful, stinking rich companies to be more philanthropic*

(*given we're unlikely to see any alternative socio-political changes that will result in the wealth being shared more equally. The fact that richest of the lot doesn't give a fucking penny is something that should have people condemning Apple, not fawning all over them).


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## pesh (Mar 21, 2012)

editor said:


> And Apple equip the US military.


i think there is a subtle difference between trying to flog the US Airforce a load of iPads and actually building and selling Terminators 

do they come with Beats Audio is what i want to know.


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

pesh said:


> i think there is a subtle difference between trying to flog the US Airforce a load of iPads and actually building and selling Terminators


Why? They're both used by agencies of war, and Apple actively seek out military and government agency sales too.


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## pesh (Mar 21, 2012)

yeah, but 1 of them shoots bullets at you, the other is a laptop.

if it was the other way round you would be having a field day.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

pesh said:


> i think there is a subtle difference between trying to flog the US Airforce a load of iPads and actually building and selling Terminators
> 
> do they come with Beats Audio is what i want to know.



Don't you mean iTerminators?


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

pesh said:


> yeah, but 1 of them shoots bullets at you, the other is a laptop.


Seems you still don't understand even the fundamentals of warfare.

I've already said that I think both companies are a bunch of cunts, but at least Samsung don't spirit up Gandhi in their adverts to shift their products while giving fuck all back.


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## mauvais (Mar 21, 2012)

What are the fundamentals of warfare? Is it that if you go into battle against a  5.56mm robotic machine gun, armed only with The World's Greatest Tablet Computer, you'll be fundamentally killed?


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## Crispy (Mar 21, 2012)

mauvais said:


> If you go into battle against a 5.56mm robotic machine gun, armed only with The World's Greatest Tablet Computer, you'll be fundamentally killed.


Sun Tzu?


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

mauvais said:


> What are the fundamentals of warfare? Is it that if you go into battle against a 5.56mm robotic machine gun, armed only with The World's Greatest Tablet Computer, you'll be fundamentally killed?


I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure modern warfare is all about supply lines, logistics, intelligence gathering, data analysis and all that techie computery kinda stuff rather than just handing out weapons and saying, "off you go, brave soldier!".


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Is it that if you go into battle against a 5.56mm robotic machine gun....


Is that likely to happen then?

*ace off topic derail, btw.


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## mauvais (Mar 21, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Sun Tzu?


Oracle Tzu now.



editor said:


> Is that likely to happen then?


To me? Or to Iraqis and North Koreans?



editor said:


> I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure modern warfare is all about supply lines, logistics, intelligence gathering, data analysis and all that techie computery kinda stuff rather than just handing out weapons and saying, "off you go, brave soldier!".


What you've described there is easyJet.


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## Crispy (Mar 21, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Oracle Tzu now.


 very droll


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

Er?


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## Crispy (Mar 21, 2012)

Oracle bought Sun


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## pesh (Mar 21, 2012)

editor said:


> Seems you still don't understand even the fundamentals of warfare.


i have an Apple computer plugged into a Samsung TV. frankly, i'm nervous.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

pesh said:


> i have an Apple computer plugged into a Samsung TV. frankly, i'm nervous.



Well yeah you're supporting two arms dealers by the wacko logic of this thread...


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well yeah you're supporting two arms dealers by the wacko logic of this thread...


T'wasn't me bringing up all this pointless 'arms dealer' bullshit.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

You've done a great job of not bothering with that tedious line of 'debate' too...


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You've done a great job of not bothering with that tedious line of 'debate' too...


*checks*
Nope. It wasn't me posting up pictures of Samsung Killer Robots in a thread about Apple, but you certainly joined_ right in.    _

Now please do everyone a favour here and just don't respond, react or reference _*any*_ of my posts from now on, and I'd be delighted to do the same. Thanks.


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## Winot (Mar 21, 2012)

editor said:


> Now please do everyone a favour here and just don't respond, react or reference _*any*_ of my posts from now on, and I'd be delighted to do the same. Thanks.


 
An excellent plan for all concerned.


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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

Winot said:


> An excellent plan for all concerned.


I think so. It's not the first time I've suggested it either.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

Winot said:


> An excellent plan for all concerned.



Lol probably would help his mental health if he didn't spend too much time on threads that rile him up so much!


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## Winot (Mar 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol probably would help his mental health if he didn't spend too much time on threads that rile him up so much!



You're doing it again! Stop!


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## elbows (Mar 21, 2012)

Number 1. The larch. The larch.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

Winot said:


> You're doing it again! Stop!



Lol and so are you!


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## elbows (Mar 21, 2012)




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## editor (Mar 21, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol probably would help his mental health if he didn't spend too much time on threads that rile him up so much!


Making comments about my mental health is utterly despicable, but I'm not going to respond. Instead, I'll repeat this one more time: 





> "Now please do everyone a favour here and just don't respond, react or reference any of my posts from now on, and I'd be delighted to do the same. Thanks."


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2012)

Despicable? Compared to your behavior its practically an act of virtue!


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## twentythreedom (Mar 21, 2012)

iPad209 ftw


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## Crispy (Mar 22, 2012)

Look, I came here for an argument, this is just contradiction


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 22, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> iPad209 ftw



You have twenty seconds to comply?


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## editor (Apr 10, 2012)

Apple has now "surpassed $600bn (£379bn) in value for the first time, affirming its position as the most valuable US firm in the world."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17669078


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 10, 2012)

Looks like its going to make history by becoming the first Trillion dollar company sooner than later...incredible feat given its a minority in the computer and phone markets...


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## elbows (Apr 11, 2012)

Well its a minority market share but a majority of profit share. Or at least that was the case with smartphone market at some point in recent years if the study I read was accurate.

But now certainly isn't the time I would choose to buy Apple shares (if I ever actually bought shares, which I don't). Although their value could continue to soar, its already gone up by so much so quickly that everyone has noticed, and this is often a time when people are arriving to the party too late.

No predictions from me that they will become a trillion dollar company because I have no faith in the global economic outlook. They've weathered it excellently to date and may very well make it to further giddy heights, but they are so exposed to consumer sentiment, and there have been enough big IT crashes in the past that happened quickly for me to avoid making assumptions about the only way being up.


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## maldwyn (Apr 11, 2012)

There's one hell of a bubble about to burst... and not just Apple.


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## Structaural (Apr 12, 2012)

Woz is on Ebay.


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## 2hats (Apr 12, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Woz is on Ebay.


 
Post and packaging on him must be quite high? Or maybe he just delivers himself by segway?


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## maldwyn (Apr 17, 2012)

Greenpeace slam Apple for dirty energy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/17/apple-cloud-computing-coal-greenpeace


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## sim667 (Apr 19, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Greenpeace slam Apple for dirty energy.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/apr/17/apple-cloud-computing-coal-greenpeace


 
But it seems greanpeace are simply guessing.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 19, 2012)

sim667 said:


> But it seems greanpeace are simply guessing.



Greenpeace are beyond criticism, they'd never just make stuff up to further their agenda.


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

Greenpeace's agenda being the environment and Apple's agenda being more fat profit for themselves.


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## editor (Apr 19, 2012)

sim667 said:


> But it seems greanpeace are simply guessing.


That might be because Apple usually refuses to supply any figures.


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## pinkychukkles (Apr 20, 2012)

Guy takes Apple to a small claims court... and they actually send _two_ lawyers there to defend the case... but lose. 

Seattle Rex vs. Apple: The Verdict Is In



> A few years ago, Apple sold me a $4,000 computer with a defective graphics chip/logic board. The defective part was the Nvidia 8600M GT GPU, and when it was discovered that the machine was defective, Apple refused to take it back and issue me a refund. Instead, they promised to replace the 8600M GT boards when they failed, up to 4 years from the date of purchase.
> 
> Three years later, the board failed, and predictably, Apple refused to replace it. Instead, they used the fact that the machine wouldn’t boot (due to the failed logic board) to deny the repair. Not only that, but in addition, they tried to charge me a hefty sum of money to have it replaced, knowing full well that Nvidia pays for the full repair cost.
> 
> Three and a half months ago, after having my repair denied, I announced on this very site that I was going to sue Apple. Reading these lawsuit threats often, many people assumed that I was bluffing or blowing off steam, but true to my word, I did exactly what I said I was going to do. I sued Apple.


...


> What I don’t understand, however, is why Apple fought so hard against me when they were clearly in the wrong. It wasn’t even a judgement call. I knew they were wrong, the judge knew they were wrong, the clerk knew it, the audience knew it, and you could tell … you could just tell that Apple knew it as well.
> 
> And what of the shareholders? What should they make of this? Apple’s stock has been an E-ticket ride lately, but this incident should really give shareholders pause. I mean, what kind of judgement are the current leaders of Apple using?
> 
> ...


I use a mac (and a pc to lesser extent) but stuff like this does give you pause for thought (amongst others); hope they get a class action suit together for this.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2012)

Heh


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## sim667 (Apr 23, 2012)

editor said:


> That might be because Apple usually refuses to supply any figures.


 
Which is the perfect excuse to plug some figures out of the air yeah?


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## editor (Apr 23, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Which is the perfect excuse to plug some figures out of the air yeah?


They have explained their methodology and Apple can't complain if they refuse to release the kind of figures that other companies are happy to offer. Besides, Apple's poor environmental record speaks for itself. With their obscene levels of profit and status as an aspirational company, they should be leading by example, not trying to conceal the truth.


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## sim667 (Apr 23, 2012)

Er...... you still shouldnt be publishing guesstimates.

Im pretty sure if I went around publishing 'guesstimates' under the guise of them being fact about people all over the internet I'd end up in quite a lot of shit. This doesnt seem to be applying to greenpeace in this situation. Not that I'm disagreeing with greenpeace, they're probably right.


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## editor (Apr 23, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Er...... you still shouldnt be publishing guesstimates.
> 
> Im pretty sure if I went around publishing 'guesstimates' under the guise of them being fact about people all over the internet I'd end up in quite a lot of shit. This doesnt seem to be applying to greenpeace in this situation. Not that I'm disagreeing with greenpeace, they're probably right.


The simple fact remains that they have committed to using more coal-sourced dirty energy than many of their rivals. If you want to defend that, feel free.


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## peterkro (Apr 23, 2012)

I don't want to put in a position where I'm defending Apple (if the rumour about them ditching the 17" MacBookPro is true my next computer will be a Hackintosh ) however Greenpeace are targeting them (rightly) because they know it'll have some effect and put pressure on others:

Apple noted earlier this week in response to aGreenpeace report on data centers being powered by coal-derived energy that it intends for its Prineville data center to run on "100% renewable energy". 

Apple just recently opened another data center in Maiden, North Carolina, where the company has indicated that it plans to spend $1 billion. The company is building a 20-megawatt solar farm and a 5-megawatt fuel cell facility at the data center, two of the largest privately-owned renewable energy projects of their kind in the country.


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## sim667 (Apr 23, 2012)

editor said:


> The simple fact remains that they have committed to using more coal-sourced dirty energy than many of their rivals. If you want to defend that, feel free.


 
Im not defending it, but you are defending making stuff up then publishing it.....


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## editor (Apr 23, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Im not defending it, but you are defending making stuff up then publishing it.....


Is their main source of power for this new plant  coal powered or not? Have they made less of a commitment to renewable energy sources than some other companies?


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## sim667 (Apr 23, 2012)

Are greenpeace using fabricated data to support what they're claiming?


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## editor (Apr 23, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Are greenpeace using fabricated data to support what they're claiming?


It doesn't matter if their guestimate is not entirely accurate or not. What is important that Apple's commitment to dirty energy is widely publicised, particularly in light of their secrecy, their obscene levels of wealth and their status as the richest and hippest tech company on the planet.


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## sim667 (Apr 23, 2012)

It doesn't matter if they're guesstimate is accurate, but it does matter that they're making statements based on unsubstantiated evidence, it's a cheap tactic, and to my mind does not further their cause.

If the point was made using verifiable facts then if probably sit up and listen. I could go round slandering all sorts of companies based on unsubstantiated evidence portrayed as fact, but that would be unfair.....


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 24, 2012)

This is slightly odd, Linux invent loves his MacBook Air:



> _I’m have to admit being a bit baffled by how nobody else seems to have done what Apple did with the Macbook Air – even several years after the first release, the other notebook vendors continue to push those ugly and *clunky* things. Yes, there are vendors that have tried to emulate it, but usually pretty badly. I don’t think I’m unusual in preferring my laptop to be thin and light.Btw, even when it comes to Apple, it’s really just the Air that I think is special. The other apple laptops may be good-looking, but they are still the same old clunky hardware, just in a pretty dress.I’m personally just hoping that I’m ahead of the curve in my strict requirement for “small and silent”. It’s not just laptops, btw – Intel sometimes gives me pre-release hardware, and the people inside Intel I work with have learnt that being whisper-quiet is one of my primary requirements for desktops too. I am sometimes surprised at what leaf-blowers some people seem to put up with under their desks.I want my office to be quiet. The loudest thing in the room – by far – should be the occasional purring of the cat. And when I travel, I want to travel light. A notebook that weighs more than a kilo is simply not a good thing (yeah, I’m using the smaller 11″ macbook air, and I think weight could still be improved on, but at least it’s very close to the magical 1kg limit)._


----------



## editor (Apr 24, 2012)

Fantastic! Apple are even richer
Apple crushes estimates in Q2, reports profit of $11.6 billion on $39.2 billion in revenue

I'm sure the workers in the Chinese factories will be delighted.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 24, 2012)

They've sold a lot of units...wonder how long it will be before they buy a continent?


----------



## peterkro (Apr 24, 2012)

Or how long before they buy Adobe and kick it to death while making Potatoshop into what it could be.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 24, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Or how long before they buy Adobe and kick it to death while making Potatoshop into what it could be.


 
Lol I wouldn't hold my breath tbh...


----------



## 2hats (Apr 25, 2012)

peterkro said:


> buy Adobe and kick it to death


 
If only.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 25, 2012)

Apple trading $612 at moment. Closed at $560 yesterday evening..... kin'ell!!


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

Hooray! Greedy, stinking rich company with fuck all social conscience and a dire environmental and workers rights records is making even more cash for its fat investors!


----------



## Kanda (Apr 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Hooray! Greedy, stinking rich company with fuck all social conscience and a dire environmental and workers rights records is making even more cash for its fat investors!


 
Ah, that's how you fell about them, at least it's clear... 

I wasn't cheering anything, just stunned. Fucking bonkers...


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Ah, that's how you fell about them, at least it's clear...
> 
> I wasn't cheering anything, just stunned. Fucking bonkers...


So you have no opinion or comment about such a filthy rich company raking in even more obscene levels of cash, given their comparatively dire charity/environmental/workers' rights record?

I have, and I think it should be heard every time Apple start trumpeting how rich they are.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 25, 2012)

editor said:


> So you have no opinion or comment about such a filthy rich company raking in even more obscene levels of cash, given their comparatively dire charity/environmental/workers' rights record?
> 
> I have, and I think it should be heard every time Apple start trumpeting how rich they are.


 
I have an opinion, I just choose not to include it on every single thing I post that may mention Apple or any other tech company to be used as comparison... as you do... all the time....

I simply can't be arsed to debate it with you. You're a fanatic, you're weirdness the other week trying to dig up when or where or how I purchased Apple goods over the years was just a bit too creepy for me.

That's all.


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

Kanda said:


> I have an opinion, I just choose not to include it on every single thing I post that may mention Apple or any other tech company to be used as comparison... as you do... all the time....
> 
> I simply can't be arsed to debate it with you. You're a fanatic, you're weirdness the other week trying to dig up when or where or how I purchased Apple goods over the years was just a bit too creepy for me.
> 
> That's all.


I don't think you've ever shared your opinion on Apple's vast wealth. I think it's an important issue and quite right to bring up seeing as you were posting up to tell us how they were _even richer_ now.

As for your weird Apple denial stuff, well, that's too laughable to bother with. And you were proved wrong too. Oh well...


----------



## Kanda (Apr 25, 2012)

editor said:


> I don't think you've ever shared your opinion on Apple's vast wealth. I think it's an important issue.
> 
> As for your weird Apple denial stuff, well, that's too laughable to bother with. And you were proved wrong too. Oh well...


 
Erm.. no I wasn't.

Please don't start this shit again, am bored of your stalking and trolling me.


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Erm.. no I wasn't.
> 
> Please don't start this shit again, am bored of your stalking and trolling me.


Well *don't fucking bring it up* then.

And as for "stalking" - I asked you a relevant question about a comment you made. That's what people do in threads.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 25, 2012)

editor said:


> Well *don't fucking bring it up* then.





editor said:


> Fantastic! Apple are even richer
> Apple crushes estimates in Q2, reports profit of $11.6 billion on $39.2 billion in revenue
> 
> I'm sure the workers in the Chinese factories will be delighted.


You started it. Ner ner-ner ner ner.


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

Crispy said:


> You started it. Ner ner-ner ner ner.


Way to go on missing the point dude! 

But thanks for joining in anyway and keeping the pot on the boil.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 25, 2012)

Never your fault, is it?


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Never your fault, is it?


I make relevent comments on Apple news articles that may not please everyone, but they're heartfelt and honest. You just jumped in to stir the pot here and tried to turn into a personal thing. Why not argue the actual topic instead, which is, if I'm not mistaken, about Apple's just- announced increased wealth and what they do (and don't) do with it?


----------



## pesh (Apr 25, 2012)

editor said:


> So you have no opinion or comment about such a filthy rich company raking in even more obscene levels of cash, given their comparatively dire charity/environmental/workers' rights record?


 
thats just it. there are a LOT of companies in the exact same position doing the exact same thing, to the exact same staff, damaging the exact same areas but who you willfully ignore and allow to carry on without question because Apple make more cash so in your eyes they are more evil.

no they fucking arnt, they are just more profitable.

ALL these people / firms are cunts and your choice to ignore everyone elses misdeeds because it doesnt fit into your hatred of one company is a crock of shit and does make you look like fanatic.

allowing every firm involved with Foxconn to get away scott free was one of the biggest cop outs of recent times. it just allowed Apple to go 'look we sent an executive and he's gonna pay some lip service' while every other company laughed up their sleeve and sold a few more netbooks to NYT readers who are incapable of reading Wikipedia.

i've read a lot of your posts on the subject and the impression i've been given is that you care more about bad mouthing Apple than you do about the rights of the Foxconn workers across all the companies production lines.

maybe thats true and maybe its not, but thats the impression i've been given by your own posts. does that bother you?

and before you accuse me of it, NO, i am not sticking up for those smug iPricks, i'm trying to spread the hate around.


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

pesh said:


> ALL these people / firms are cunts and your choice to ignore everyone elses misdeeds because it doesnt fit into your hatred of one company is a crock of shit and does make you look like fanatic.


That's not true, but the point - which you're woefully missing - is that Apple are the biggest, the richest, the most successful and the most aspirational by far, yet they also have just about the worst philanthropic record of the entire lot.

Yet they rarely attract any criticism because it seems that the tech blogs and consumers are too bedazzled by their shiny shiny technology, yet this is a company who should be leading by example.

Yet whenever I bring it up here, posters here (almost all Apple users) immediately line up to accuse me of 'trolling' just because I'm pointing out some uncomfortable truths.



pesh said:


> i've read a lot of your posts on the subject and the impression i've been given is that you care more about bad mouthing Apple than you do about the rights of the Foxconn workers across all the companies production lines.


And that's a disgusting misrepresentation. Shame on you.


----------



## pesh (Apr 25, 2012)

editor said:


> And that's a disgusting misrepresentation. Shame on you.


thats not a misrepresentation, i have not said that is your point of view, i said it was the impression your posts had given me.


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

pesh said:


> thats not a misrepresentation, i have not said that is your point of view, i said it was the impression your posts had given me.


Very poor.


----------



## pesh (Apr 25, 2012)

i quite agree


----------



## peterkro (Apr 25, 2012)

Apple officially cunts.While watching the after footie bollocks last night I got up to get another drink and my earphones dragged my phone from where it was perched against my laptop screen and dropped onto floor,screen has a thousand cracks.Bulldog glass my arse,Apple I hate you.(it was a concrete floor to be fair)


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Apple officially cunts.While watching the after footie bollocks last night I got up to get another drink and my earphones dragged my phone from where it was perched against my laptop screen and dropped onto floor,screen has a thousand cracks.


Sell it on ebay as an exclusive, limited edition Apple iMosaic screen.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 25, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Apple officially cunts.While watching the after footie bollocks last night I got up to get another drink and my earphones dragged my phone from where it was perched against my laptop screen and dropped onto floor,screen has a thousand cracks.Bulldog glass my arse,Apple I hate you.(it was a concrete floor to be fair)


 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_Glass


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2012)

Bulldog glass is better. It's the easily-shattered British version.


----------



## Zabo (Apr 25, 2012)

Apple talk stupid.

If you want a fridge combined toaster don't go to Apple.

"You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator, but those things are probably not going to be pleasing to the user. We're not going to that party... others might from a defensive point of view." Tim Cook (bad name for the analogy).

Defensive? Arrogant bastard! Obviously the millions that have bought Asus combined products and will buy Asus and others when Win8 is released will no doubt disagree as do these:

"The statements contrast with Intel's vision of the future. The chip maker makes the processors that power Mac computers, but not its tablets and phones.

Intel showed off a prototype laptop that converted into a tablet at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January. Earlier this week its PC business chief told the BBC it still believed the concept would prove popular with users of Microsoft's next operating system.

"As touch become more ubiquitous across Ivy Bridge platforms you don't need to carry both devices around," said Kirk Skaugen. With Windows 8 coming you can get the best of a mechanical keyboard, which people are telling us they don't want to give up, but when you want to get into consumption mode and read articles or the newspaper you can switch into tablet mode."

Aside from Editor's reasons I have become to detest Apple for their unbridled arrogance. This holier than holy shit should have died with Jobs but clearly it hasn't.

And finally...a few on Wall Street are none too happy about the percentage shares of Apple. They would rather have 'middle investments' like Microsoft than those soaring to other galaxies. I wonder what they know?

Full article on baked apples. 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17838180


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Apple trading $612 at moment. Closed at $560 yesterday evening..... kin'ell!!



It's crazy stuff ain't it??


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 25, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Apple trading $612 at moment. Closed at $560 yesterday evening..... kin'ell!!


That's insane.

So, when is this bubble going to pop?


----------



## gabi (Apr 25, 2012)

theres no reason for it to pop anytime soon. competitors are still floundering trying to catch up and the iphone 5's on the horizon.. onwards..


----------



## Crispy (Apr 25, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That's insane.
> 
> So, when is this bubble going to pop?


Not for a while yet. Their design, manufacturing, advertising and retail machine is very well entrenched and powerful.
Long-term, Apple will need new products if it wants to continue this rate of growth. Not revisions of existing ones, but new, like the pod phone and pad were. That will be the real test of their "post-jobs" era.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 25, 2012)

In a report one of our guys sent round today, it said 90% of iPhone users will upgrade to the new iPhone... getting people hooked into the whole Apple Ecosystem (or whatever you call it) is what's probably working so well for them.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Not for a while yet. Their design, manufacturing, advertising and retail machine is very well entrenched and powerful.
> Long-term, Apple will need new products if it wants to continue this rate of growth. Not revisions of existing ones, but new, like the pod phone and pad were. That will be the real test of their "post-jobs" era.



Yep, if he's left them enough worked up ideas for the next few years it'll be a decade before they seriously founder. By which time a new CEO might be ready (Scott Forester) to take over?


----------



## 2hats (Apr 25, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, when is this bubble going to pop?


 
When their shoddy approach to security comes back to bite them on the iArse?

When people realise they only have sufficient money to just about afford food and the nutritional value of their shiny-shiny is really quite low?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Apr 25, 2012)

Kanda said:


> In a report one of our guys sent round today, it said 90% of iPhone users will upgrade to the new iPhone... getting people hooked into the whole Apple Ecosystem (or whatever you call it) is what's probably working so well for them.



Yup. My Mrs just upgraded to a 4S. Felt a little trapped by having to go for an iPhone to take advantage of everything she's bought through iTunes. It's very effective. They don't need to make the best hardware. They just need to keep it simple and keep iTunes locked down.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Apr 25, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, if he's left them enough worked up ideas for the next few years it'll be a decade before they seriously founder. By which time a new CEO might be ready (Scott Forester) to take over?



I don't think Apple's recent ideas were ever planned that far in advance. He made several bold proclamations about never doing something, then going and doing it two years later when he realised he was wrong. Suggests it was always reasonably reactive.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 25, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Not for a while yet. Their design, manufacturing, advertising and retail machine is very well entrenched and powerful.
> Long-term, Apple will need new products if it wants to continue this rate of growth. Not revisions of existing ones, but new, like the pod phone and pad were. That will be the real test of their "post-jobs" era.


Games console and big smart telly I imagine...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 25, 2012)

Games console doesn't make sense.

The "core" gamer wants the most powerful system. MS and Sony therefore sell high-power hardware at a loss, and make the money back by selling expensive software. This is the complete opposite of Apple's iDevice business model - cheap, high quality software makes their very high margin hardware desirable. An apple games "console" that tried to compete with MS and Sony would cost $900 and fail, hard.

The "casual" gamer barely knows that they are a gamer at all. They love Angry Birds and Singstar. For them, the hardware is not important. In fact, traditional "core" gaming hardware is downright intimidating. Apple are already very strong in this market, and they don't need to do anything drastic to maintain and grow their position. Adding Wii-like controls to the aTV and opening the platform up to developers would be all they need to do to move their mobile gaming dominance into the living room.

The smart TV is a conundrum.

People already own TVs and are much more reluctant to swap them for new ones than they are with other devices. An aTV with built-in screen is only fractionally more user-friendly than one with an external screen. Besides, the real "revolution" that's there to be made in TV is the "watch anything, anytime" experience. The content companies will let Apple provide that experience over their dead bodies, which means Apple can only really improve on the hardware design and the user interface. If Apple wanted to get people to dump their existing TVs and buy a new one, they'd need to make their TV substantially better. Hardware and interface is too small a part of the whole TV experience for it to be a selling point strong enough.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 25, 2012)

Crispy said:


> If Apple wanted to get people to dump their existing TVs and buy a new one, they'd need to make their TV substantially better. Hardware and interface is too small a part of the whole TV experience for it to be a selling point strong enough.


 
Or (seemingly) give it away to lure victims into the walled garden.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 25, 2012)

2hats said:


> Or (seemingly) give it away to lure victims into the walled garden.


The walled garden exists to make the profitable hardware desirable. Selling subsidised hardware in order to increase sales of software is counter to their entire strategy so far.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 25, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The walled garden exists to make the profitable hardware desirable. Selling subsidised hardware in order to increase sales of software is counter to their entire strategy so far.


 
I'm overusing the walled garden metaphor. You can usually get similar software elsewhere.

Not so much giveaway, but perhaps you can 'afford' not to profiteer from the hardware if you have the lure of 'exclusive', 'must have' tv/film/music deals for which you've negotiated a handsome cut.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I don't think Apple's recent ideas were ever planned that far in advance. He made several bold proclamations about never doing something, then going and doing it two years later when he realised he was wrong. Suggests it was always reasonably reactive.


 
Saying you're not going to do something then doing it in business doesn't mean automatically you're reactive. Confusing your competitors is a core business strategy when it comes to your intentions. It's not like any corporation is going to come out and say "Hey guys this is what we're planning for the next five years, feel free to work out how to compete against it or rip it off.'"...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 25, 2012)

2hats said:


> Not so much giveaway, but perhaps you can 'afford' not to profiteer from the hardware if you have the lure of 'exclusive', 'must have' tv/film/music deals for which you've negotiated a handsome cut.


 
Well, they've been negotiating as hard as they can, and that "exclusive" content still refuses to flow. The TV business is not in crisis like the music business was, and they saw what Apple did to those guys. Look at Apple's earnings report. The profit they make from hardware is enormous. Their content business, whilst broad, popular and market-leading, makes up just 5% of their profit.



Apple is a hardware company and their entire organisation is built around that fact. If they gave away ipads, but doubled the price of the content for them, they'd make much less money.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 25, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Apple is a hardware company and their entire organisation is built around that fact.


 
I don't dispute it. My point is that I can't see some sort of Apple television having anything other than limited appeal, unless it offers [perhaps unintended] rich modification opportunities.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 25, 2012)

(The only people I've known who have bought the AppleTV hardware have only done so to use it for presentations from iPads using airplay/mirroring).


----------



## Zabo (Apr 25, 2012)

2hats said:


> I don't dispute it. My point is that I can't see some sort of Apple television having anything other than limited appeal, unless it offers [perhaps unintended] rich modification opportunities.


 

*IKEA!! 5 Year Guarantee!*


----------



## Crispy (Apr 25, 2012)

2hats said:


> I don't dispute it. My point is that I can't see some sort of Apple television having anything other than limited appeal, unless it offers [perhaps unintended] rich modification opportunities.


 
Exactly why I doubt that they'll actually launch such a thing.

I have no doubt that it exists in their R&D department, but they won't launch it until it does "watch anything, anytime". Unfortunately for them, that is not a problem that can be solved with technology, design or advertising.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 25, 2012)

I still don't think they will release an actual television either.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 25, 2012)

*


Zabo said:



IKEA!! 5 Year Guarantee!

Click to expand...

* 
Compare and contrast with 'Apple 1 year guarantee'...

Yes, I was just idly speculating about a hypothesised Apple product.


----------



## editor (Apr 26, 2012)

Bizarre demo/PR stunt outside an Apple store in Australia:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2012)

Rumour has it this was Samsungs doing. Strange form of PR, a slogan with no message...


----------



## maldwyn (Apr 26, 2012)

Didn't Cook indicate he'd rather see a peaceful resolution to the legal stuff with Samsung, bet this will help that process.


----------



## editor (Apr 26, 2012)

Seems a bit of an odd one for Samsung. Why would they target Apple's store?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2012)

Apparently there's a connection to a countdown website which is for the new S3...seems a bit odd that a well resourced 'flash' mob wouldn't have some company behind it tbh and all things being equal if any competitor is going to target Apple like this it'll be Samsung.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Didn't Cook indicate he'd rather see a peaceful resolution to the legal stuff with Samsung, bet this will help that process.



Yeah he said he hates law suites, reckon there's probably real back channel comms ongoing trying to find a settlement. But you're right this type of thing doesn't exactly lower the temperature...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2012)

More on this and the Greenpeace protests:

http://9to5mac.com/2012/04/26/samsung-employs-protesters-to-wake-up-apple-users/


----------



## editor (Apr 26, 2012)

Still can't see what Samsung would hope to achieve by targeting an Apple store in this manner.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2012)

Neither can I that's why it's pretty stupid if it is them.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 26, 2012)

2hats said:


> (The only people I've known who have bought the AppleTV hardware have only done so to use it for presentations from iPads using airplay/mirroring).



Apple TV was around before iPads and mirroring, I know a few people that have the old V1 box.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 26, 2012)

In the USA, where you can get a much broader choice of streaming TV, the aTV makes much more sense.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2012)

That'll change.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 26, 2012)

It'll have to, if Apple want to make a success out of it


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2012)

Indeed.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 26, 2012)

Yes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2012)

Splendid!


----------



## sim667 (Apr 30, 2012)

Right, I've decided to get a new macbook, just the little 13.3 inch one, but I want it to use with my dj controller and my old powerbook just isnt cutting the mustard any more!

The question is what can I use the powerbook for? its got a clean install of tiger on it, it doesnt owe me anything (10 years old), but I just cant bring myself to bin it!


----------



## peterkro (Apr 30, 2012)

I use mine with Leopard Server it just sits there 24 hours a day serving files to the LAN and controlling my seed box, downloading stuff overnight when I've unlimited data.(if it's a 15" working it's still worth £200 )(actual at ten years it probably can't do Leopard but Tiger server is fine)


----------



## sim667 (Apr 30, 2012)

It can do leopard. It was top spec when I got it.

All my downloads run straight to my mac pro, that sits on all the time doing my downloads and server my media server clients (I also do all my photographic retouching on it).

Im not sure whether its worth more to me than the £200 i could get for it (plus the battery is dead, so anyone would only wanna give me £100 for it).


----------



## peterkro (Apr 30, 2012)

O.K. you've got all that covered.I'd tend to keep it,things do fuck up at times and it's nice to know you've got something in the cupboard (with a better keyboard) that'll do the basics albeit a bit slowly.Or give it to someone who'd appreciate a non cutting edge computer that still does the basics and well.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 30, 2012)

Make sure you remove Flash and Java from it (and any old version of Office)


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2012)

Samsung have officially denied being involved in the 'wake up' Flashmob thingy.
http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-denies-staging-wake-up-anti-apple-flashmob-27225067/


----------



## maldwyn (Apr 30, 2012)

An awful lot of criticism about atm regarding apples's tax avoidance scams.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 30, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> An awful lot of criticism about atm regarding apples's tax avoidance scams.



Yup. Looks like tax avoidance may be challenged off the back of it too...


----------



## peterkro (Apr 30, 2012)

Arf Apple have $12 Billion in offshore profits and they are doing what might be called "intensive lobbying".Is it obscene:yes,do I hope they get shafted:yes, are other multinationals doing this:yes.I'm looking forward to Capitalism going tits up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 30, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Arf Apple have $12 Billion in offshore profits and they are doing what might be called "intensive lobbying".Is it obscene:yes,do I hope they get shafted:yes, are other multinationals doing this:yes.I'm looking forward to Capitalism going tits up.


 
Yep, unless the system changes you're going to get more Apple's...


----------



## gabi (Jun 11, 2012)

Big apple keynote this afternoon.. 

i just watched this. i now feel sick. dicks.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/11/pre-wwdc-live-broadcast/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Yep expect Apple lovers to hail it as the second coming while the predictable haters will puke with hatred...


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 11, 2012)

These days Urban is probably the last place I'd come for objective Apple news


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> These days Urban is probably the last place I'd come for objective Apple news



Lol when was it ever objective? On anything?!


----------



## sim667 (Jun 11, 2012)

Watching the live blog, updates for ios 6, osx and laptops


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

As predicted...now iPhone 5 then?


----------



## sim667 (Jun 11, 2012)

Nah, octoberish surely.

MacBook air refresh, new MacBook pro, looks dead thin like with a retina display too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

New laptops shipping today with MLion? Doesn't that mean it'll be ready for download this week?


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> ....while the predictable haters will puke with hatred...


Pretty sure they won't, you know, although they may express an opinion that the hype has gone completely to some people's heads.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

The hatred toward Apple is just as stupid as the love toward it. Only a fool invests that amount of emotion in a corporation.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 11, 2012)

Changes to new osx to make it more popular in china. Built in proxy to get round the great firewall? 

Not shipping on new laptops, only $20 though, free upgrade if you buy a new lappie though. One license for all comps ..... Sounds good, wonder how buggy it is


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

19 dollars is what...12 quid? Pretty good for a new OS I reckon...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

That eye free thing for Siri is very very useful.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 11, 2012)

That new MBP is very swanky indeed. Priced accordingly, of course.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Not sure about this...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Finally iOS gets reply to call with message, something I missed from my Palm Centro from 2009!


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> That new MBP is very swanky indeed. Priced accordingly, of course.


Lovely machine but painfully expensive.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Passbook, although a crap name, is a clever way into the eWallet market...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 11, 2012)

This is a pretty major iOS update


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> This is a pretty major iOS update


 
Was just thinking the same thing while mulling the map sat nave crowd source thing...looks like Apple is finally feeling the heat of competition.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

> Apple has been flying over cities to build 3D photographic model


----------



## Crispy (Jun 11, 2012)

Just like Nokia, over a year ago...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 11, 2012)

Bastards! Not available for iPad 1


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

But available on the 3GS? How does that work...??


----------



## sim667 (Jun 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Bastards! Not available for iPad 1



Tbf my iPad one struggles with ios 5, I'm not that bothered by not upgrading to six on the iPad 1


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 11, 2012)

I note the complete lack of an Apple TV announcement. _Who would have thought it?_


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Or iMacs of Mac Pros (that some reckon professionals have being dying for)...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Tbf my iPad one struggles with ios 5, I'm not that bothered by not upgrading to six on the iPad 1


I am, because I develop iPad apps, so I'll have to write for 6 quite soon. I estimate my chances of being able to get a newer one through work at "ha ha", given my chances of even being _paid_ these days.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 11, 2012)

£1,799.00 for the base MBP retina - on the bright side its comes with free postage.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Very pricey, one for wealthy photographers only then...


----------



## sim667 (Jun 11, 2012)

Ah bollocks, no retina on 13 inch ones...... I've been holding out to see what the updates on those were and they haven't bloody done any


----------



## peterkro (Jun 11, 2012)

Fuckers appear to have discontinued the 17".


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

How many people need a 17"?


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## Crispy (Jun 11, 2012)

Hardly anyone, which is why they cancelled it.
Retina 13" is only a matter of time.


----------



## peterkro (Jun 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How many people need a 17"?


Not that many obnov. but those who do love them to death,you can't beat screen size on a laptop and the physical size difference is minimal.I'm guessing a 17" retina is beyond current technology as well.They've been hinting at dropping the 17" for sometime.(hopefully enough people like them that the used value will go up,enabling me to buy 15" retina screen jobby and why oh why can't you upgrade ram on thenew one)


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Hardly anyone, which is why they cancelled it.
> Retina 13" is only a matter of time.



Seems that way. Looks a bit odd though the way they've sorta introduced a new line without dumping an old...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Or iMacs of Mac Pros (that some reckon professionals have being dying for)...


New Mac Pro's have been announced. No Thunderbolt though...
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/11/apple-rolls-out-updated-mac-pro-lineup-with-faster-processors-n/


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## Crispy (Jun 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Seems that way. Looks a bit odd though the way they've sorta introduced a new line without dumping an old...


Like when the plastic and metal MacBooks existed side by side


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Like when the plastic and metal MacBooks existed side by side



Yeah scratch my comment this like when they introduced the first MacBook Air, everyone talked about how amazing it looked but it's price was WAY too high. Now you can pick them up for just over 800 quid.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> New Mac Pro's have been announced. No Thunderbolt though...
> http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/11/apple-rolls-out-updated-mac-pro-lineup-with-faster-processors-n/



Indeed. Why is an iMac consumer needs a thunderbolt port yet a professional doesn't?


----------



## elbows (Jun 11, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed. Why is an iMac consumer needs a thunderbolt port yet a professional doesn't?


 
Well thunderbolt is more useful for laptop & all-in-one machines that don't have space for extra drives, PCI-E cards, etc, and where the quest for thinness is slowly forcing more legacy ports to be provided by thunderbolt dongles.

However I expect if Apple gave much of a shit about the Mac Pro line anymore they would have bothered with Thunderbolt & USB3, and to have mentioned the new machines in the speech.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 11, 2012)

Crispy said:
			
		

> Retina 13" is only a matter of time.



But it's not now


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## Lazy Llama (Jun 11, 2012)

They're released a Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet adapter at last - £25 a pop.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I note the complete lack of an Apple TV announcement. _Who would have thought it?_


But...but....but the blogs all said it was coming!


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## elbows (Jun 11, 2012)

Also there might also be a technical issue with putting Thunderbolt on the Mac Pro because thunderbolt is supposed to work with mini-displayport devices, yet the Mac Pro has a separate graphics card. Again Im sure they could find a solution or compromise for this if they could be bothered. Mid you I haven't thought this through much myself because the 2008 Mac Pro that I bought when I had an income has done me well for years, but none of the subsequent models have tempted me. 

I had a good run with Apple stuff, starting with a desire to use an OS that didn't drive me crazy or remind me of work, progressing to a mobile that didn't wind me up too much (until they slowed down the iPhone 3G too much with an IS update) and then being rather happy that they'd managed to deliver a decent tablet. But its mostly all over for me now, I can't afford their stuff anymore and the direction they are going in, whilst it makes complete sense, isn't something Im interested enough in to keenly experience every development in the next few years. I don't tend to like what Google do and Im out of love with my Android ICS phone, so either Microsofts latest iteration of stuff is going to impress me enough to go off in that direction for a few years, or else I might seek to focus on platform-unspecific html/web stuff for a while.


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## elbows (Jun 11, 2012)

editor said:


> But...but....but the blogs all said it was coming!


 
No they didn't. The ones that have at least half a clue at the best of times restricted themselves to the idea that an App Store for the existing Apple TV box was on the cards. Obviously that wasn't announced either.

I did think the Apple TV App Store was possible at this point,but its not hard to see that some pieces of the jigsaw are far from in place at this stage. Content and control method are two biggies. And as they are still in the midst of rolling out AirPlay across more of their devices, we shouldn't be surprised that they are not leaping ahead to a more fanciful & risky proposition.

We've already talked about the risks of trying to get large numbers of people to buy an expensive telly from Apple, and those risks are even worse if you are asking people to either buy an expensive iPad to use as a remote or rely on some wacky & unproven method of control to interact with the thing. But if you are just trying to get users who already own/are looking for an excuse to own an iPad, macbook or even iPhone, to spend £100 on a box that works with their existing telly, the chances of gradually succeeding in this arena seem higher.


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> No they didn't.


Er, yes they did. Loads of them - and not just the smaller blogs either, e.g.:

*Apple TV Will Change the Content We Consume on All Our Screens Forever*​and
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11...otion-sensing-control-and-touchscreen-remote/


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

Telegraph:


> There have been suggestions for months that Apple is planning to launch its own television set and some observers feel that Cook and his team will announce it today.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/9324134/Apple-WWDC-2012-as-it-happened.html
and
*Apple ‘iTV’ intro set for WWDC, report claims*
http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/06/apple-itv-launch-wwdc-rumor/

etc etc


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

elbows said:


> Well thunderbolt is more useful for laptop & all-in-one machines that don't have space for extra drives, PCI-E cards, etc, and where the quest for thinness is slowly forcing more legacy ports to be provided by thunderbolt dongles.
> 
> However I expect if Apple gave much of a shit about the Mac Pro line anymore they would have bothered with Thunderbolt & USB3, and to have mentioned the new machines in the speech.


 
Indeed. I don't think Apple is doing anything other than heading off some pr backlash guff from a bunch of users that, while vocal, don't actually make up the majority of their income anymore...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> But it's not now


 
Yep, but it will be in the next 18 months...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2012)

Interesting to see TomTom partnering with Apple for the new map app. Very shrewd move on their part, wonder if Apple will buy them..?


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## maldwyn (Jun 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> ... I haven't thought this through much myself because the 2008 Mac Pro that I bought when I had an income has done me well for years, but none of the subsequent models have tempted me.


I'm in a similar situation with a late 2008 MBP which I feel is starting to show its age. I've maxed out the ram and perhaps I could speed it up by fitting a SSD. Although I'm now tempted by the new base 15" MBP retina and at £1528 (with Education Discount) is roughly what I paid for the 2008 version.


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## redsquirrel (Jun 12, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> They're released a Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet adapter at last - £25 a pop.


When I'm paying the best part of $3000 I don't want to buy a fucking dongle for something that is still very much the standard and should be included.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 12, 2012)

Tbh wired ethernet for laptops is just not a standard these days at all. Places which don't have wifi are freakish.


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## editor (Jun 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Tbh wired ethernet for laptops is just not a standard these days at all. Places which don't have wifi are freakish.


Wired Internet can't 'alf come in handy sometimes though.


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## redsquirrel (Jun 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Tbh wired ethernet for laptops is just not a standard these days at all. Places which don't have wifi are freakish.


Really? I could be out of the ordinary but I'm relatively often transferring big (5-20GB) files at work.


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## elbows (Jun 12, 2012)

editor said:


> Er, yes they did. Loads of them - and not just the smaller blogs either, e.g.:
> 
> *Apple TV Will Change the Content We Consume on All Our Screens Forever*​and
> http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11...otion-sensing-control-and-touchscreen-remote/


 
That one says the Apple television was not expected to debut.

Anyway I was responding to your 'the blogs *all* said', and I'm pretty sure I saw a hell of a lot more rumours about the Apple TV SDK/App Store than ones about a full television.  

I note that the television rumours like to call it the iTV, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence give that I though they originally wanted to call the Apple TV box that, but ran into problems in the UK because we already have an ITV.

Perhaps if I had a blog of my own I would be busy reporting that I have no clue what timescale Apple are working to in regards a television, but that it is a marginally safer bet than the iHat or iOS for lightbulbs.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Tbh wired ethernet for laptops is just not a standard these days at all. Places which don't have wifi are freakish.



Ain't that the truth...


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jun 12, 2012)

am a little bit narked. Bought the Macbook Pro 15 inch in April.Wish I had waited, ah well. it's still a nice computer. But i just wish I had the patience (or inability to make a decision) of my girlfriend as she is in the market for a new laptop as hers is 9 years old. So guess which one she is getting?

meh.


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, but it will be in the next 18 months...


 
But thats not now.

I dont really give a fuck about retina screens tbh...... Ill just buy a 13 inch anyway.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> But thats not now.
> 
> I dont really give a fuck about retina screens tbh...... Ill just buy a 13 inch anyway.



Fair enuff.


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

It would be about 400 extra when it comes out wouldnt it?

Basically I have the choice of a 13 inch base model for £939 or the 15 inch base model for £1654

Considering ive got £300 already, and want to finance the rest on a 15 month interest free credit card, Im looking at payments of £62 a month vs £110.

I think £110 is pushing my finances a bit too hard.


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## TitanSound (Jun 12, 2012)

£1654 for a laptop? Fuck a duck.


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> £1654 for a laptop? Fuck a duck.



thats with educational discount too......


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## TitanSound (Jun 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> thats with educational discount too......


 
I dread to think how much it retails for then. In my eyes, it's a rip off even at the price you quoted.


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## maldwyn (Jun 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> thats with educational discount too......


Where you getting your figures from?

On uni networks prices are

RETINA 2.3 = £1528.80
RETINA 2.6 = 1953.60


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## mauvais (Jun 12, 2012)

That's truly ridiculous.


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## Lazy Llama (Jun 12, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> They're released a Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet adapter at last - £25 a pop.


And there's a Thunderbolt to Firewire800 adapter coming shortly too.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 12, 2012)

Blimey, if you want a fully loaded 15" inch retina display macbook it will cost you over 3 grand  

Beautiful kit, yes, but bugger me


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Where you getting your figures from?
> 
> On uni networks prices are
> 
> ...


 
Ah im not a uni, im fe college...... different prices innit.

BTW i noticed if you upgrade the SSD's to top in both the retina and non retina, the retina one works out cheaper.


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## ExtraRefined (Jun 12, 2012)

That screen is too high dot pitch to be fully usable. If you've got normal, 20/20 visual accuity, you won't be able to resolve it further away than 40cm. I've just measured, and I use a laptop with my eyes about 65cm from the screen.

1080p is high enough on a 15 inch screen, Apple have just created an expensive and useless feature.


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## fractionMan (Jun 12, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Tbh wired ethernet for laptops is just not a standard these days at all. Places which don't have wifi are freakish.


 
Like most offices?


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## ExtraRefined (Jun 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Like most offices?


 
FridgeMagnet's a creative, he doesn't work in offices. Offices are for squares, not the cool types who'll buy a MacBook.


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## fractionMan (Jun 12, 2012)

I'm pretty sure he does work in an office, but yeah, a creative one 

Back in working for the government iso 27001 world we're still arguing about it.  We want it (developers) they don't (information security officers, network bods).


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> £1654 for a laptop? Fuck a duck.



I remember buying a fairly high spec gaming laptop in 2003 and it costing me £1400. A mate bought a Mac laptop with the same specs and it cost him £2000...


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

My powerbook was £2300 9 years ago. It came with a 120 gb hard disk, 1gb of ram and 1.67 mhz g4 processor


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## 2hats (Jun 12, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I'm pretty sure he does work in an office, but yeah, a creative one
> 
> Back in working for the government iso 27001 world we're still arguing about it. We want it (developers) they don't (information security officers, network bods).


 
But if they let you have laptops, like USB sticks and anything else portable, you'll just go and leave them on trains, park benches, etc.


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## fractionMan (Jun 12, 2012)

2hats said:


> But if they let you have laptops, like USB sticks and anything else portable, you'll just go and leave them on trains, park benches, etc.


 
We're not allowed to plug anything into our computers, phones or anything.

Luckily I'm on linux and they can't work out how to stop me


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## RaverDrew (Jun 12, 2012)




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## gabi (Jun 12, 2012)

Refurbed macbook airs are currently only £650 on the apple site. Decent.


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

I got put off refurbs when my mate bought one, the logic board fried itself and he had to splash out £600 to get it fixed


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## gabi (Jun 12, 2012)

I've always bought refurb - never had a prob


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## Lazy Llama (Jun 12, 2012)

And Apple refurbs come with the same warranty as a new machine, so if it happened in the first year (or 3 with AppleCare) he should have had the board replaced for free.


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> And Apple refurbs come with the same warranty as a new machine, so if it happened in the first year (or 3 with AppleCare) he should have had the board replaced for free.


 
No it happened a year and 4 days after he got it. He didnt buy apple care. They gave him labour for free, but he had to pay for the part.

For the macbook pro, the only one comparable to what im after refurb is £80 less...... but it has a not quite as good graphics card (well they're not cards anymore, chip).


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## elbows (Jun 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> My powerbook was £2300 9 years ago. It came with a 120 gb hard disk, 1gb of ram and 1.67 mhz g4 processor


 
I think you mean GHz,the G4s weren't quite that slow  Although my first PC was 12.5 MHz, vroom vroom.


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## sim667 (Jun 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> I think you mean GHz,the G4s weren't quite that slow  Although my first PC was 12.5 MHz, vroom vroom.


 
yeah you're totally right


----------



## elbows (Jun 12, 2012)

Sorry for being a pedant!

Anyways in regard to the Mac Pro stuff, the rumours now suggest they aren't losing interest and abandoning it, and will do a more substantial update next year. Think this is mostly based on something Tim Cook apparently emailed in response to someone who wasn't happy about Apples apparent loss of interest in pro stuff.


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## ExtraRefined (Jun 13, 2012)




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## Crispy (Jun 13, 2012)

The new retina mac is more flexible in terms of resolution than iOS devices. You can choose a range of resolutions between 1440 x 900 (ie. pixel doubled) through 1680 x 1050 and 1920 x 1200. Apparently, everything still looks nice and crisp, although performance takes a slight hit in the non-doubled modes.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5998/macbook-pro-retina-display-analysis


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## ExtraRefined (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The new retina mac is more flexible in terms of resolution than iOS devices. You can choose a range of resolutions between 1440 x 900 (ie. pixel doubled) through 1680 x 1050 and 1920 x 1200. Apparently, everything still looks nice and crisp, although performance takes a slight hit in the non-doubled modes.
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/5998/macbook-pro-retina-display-analysis


 
Lulz, there's going to be so many middle-aged idiots buying these and then permanently setting them to 1440x900 when they realise they can't read shit otherwise. I see this all the time with even 22" 1920x1080 displays, which have way under half the dot pitch of this toy.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 13, 2012)

I guess it's like most things - a very useful tool if you need it, pointless otherwise. I know a pro photographer mate of mine will be first in the queue for one.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2012)

ExtraRefined said:


> Lulz, there's going to be so many middle-aged idiots buying these and then permanently setting them to 1440x900 when they realise they can't read shit otherwise. I see this all the time with even 22" 1920x1080 displays, which have way under half the dot pitch of this toy.


 
This issue is supposed to ultimately be resolved by a more 'resolution independent' approach to drawing stuff on screen, i.e. at higher resolutions various visual elements will maintain broadly the same physical dimensions. However the going is rather slow on this one, its taking a long time to happen. This Apple stuff is one of the first examples I can think of which are likely to actually push this stuff forwards somewhat with laptops/desktops, although I still expect it to be a rather slow evolution.

I certainly witnessed the phenomenon you describe at work a lot, in fact it was even worse because for years people wanted to linger on 1024x type resolutions, even when they had widescreen monitors with a size of 20 inches or more. Some of the pixel stretching etc was quite horrific but they didn't seem to care about this, size of text on screen was key even if it ended up ugly. And many of the users concerned were still some years away from middle age.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2012)

Think a bigger issue than your chosen setting is how awful the web will look generally given most websites aren't optimized for retina displays...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2012)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I guess it's like most things - a very useful tool if you need it, pointless otherwise. I know a pro photographer mate of mine will be first in the queue for one.


Being able to view multiple 1080p video at native resolution, with plenty of space for UI around it will also be a killer app.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Think a bigger issue than your chosen setting is how awful the web will look generally given most websites aren't optimized for retina displays...


 
If thats an issue then they've taken a very bad first step in terms of how they've implemented this stuff. It shouldn't be an issue really, they should be able to make the text look much nicer, and images should be about the same quality as they would otherwise be. Clearly to get the full benefit from raster images then site creators will have work to do, but a non-optimised site still shouldn't end up looking worse than it would on a traditional display.

I make these comments based on vague theory rather than how its actually going to work with this new Apple laptop, and like I said if they haven't done this then its a fail in my book.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2012)

"awful" is relative. Text and vectors will be sharper (the rounded corners on this website, for instance). It's just images that will look out of place. Apparently, the same image looks worse on a retina screen, even though it's the same image pixels/inch, because you lose the slight blurring effect between large pixels. ie. you can see the "steps"


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## elbows (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Apparently, the same image looks worse on a retina screen, even though it's the same image pixels/inch, because you lose the slight blurring effect between large pixels. ie. you can see the "steps"


 
Thanks for that info. I'm wondering if its possible to do a vague simulation of this phenomenon using different res images and a not-retina-density screen?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Being able to view multiple 1080p video at native resolution, with plenty of space for UI around it will also be a killer app.


Or some clever bugger taking several 1080p videos and blending them together into one super high res video...


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Being able to view multiple 1080p video at native resolution, with plenty of space for UI around it will also be a killer app.


 
Right, because a laptop with a 250GB SSD is clearly an ideal HD video editing workstation. And given that unless you've got the display taped to your eyeballs you won't be able to fully resolve it anyway, who cares if it's native HD?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2012)

I honestly don't think retina screens are particularly performance-boosting. They are nicer to look at, and I'm sure will be standard soon, and also they help kill off pixel-based design in software and particularly on the web which is a good thing (mobile has helped the latter already). But they aren't going to make a vast difference; we've already reached the stage where resolutions are high enough that they easily produce enough visible detail for practical purposes.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2012)

ExtraRefined said:


> Right, because a laptop with a 250GB SSD is clearly an ideal HD video editing workstation. And given that unless you've got the display taped to your eyeballs you won't be able to fully resolve it anyway, who cares if it's native HD?


Nobody doing HD video editing stores their footage on internal drives (do they?!). Thunderbolt is just as fast.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 13, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Nobody doing HD video editing stores their footage on internal drives (do they?!). Thunderbolt is just as fast.


 
Well it's not like you've got a choice since it doesn't use a standard drive size, so you can't ever upgrade or replace it. You'd better hope Adobe don't up the RAM requirements on premiere (already 8GB) on the next release, since the RAM's soldered on too. Hahahaha no other company's consumers would let them get away with this shit.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Display-Teardown/9462/2


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2012)

ExtraRefined said:


> Well it's not like you've got a choice since it doesn't use a standard drive size, so you can't ever upgrade or replace it. You'd better hope Adobe don't up the RAM requirements on premiere (already 8GB) on the next release, since the RAM's soldered on too. Hahahaha no other company's consumers would let them get away with this shit.
> 
> http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Display-Teardown/9462/2



Not sure you have to hope, it's not like Adobe are the only game in town for video editing...


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not sure you have to hope, it's not like Adobe are the only game in town for video editing...


 
Right, right, 640kB should be enough for anyone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2012)

ExtraRefined said:


> Right, right, 640kB should be enough for anyone.



So you're saying that instead of researching for alternatives a video pro just has to sit around and 'hope'?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2012)

Weaksauce trolling tbh.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 13, 2012)

I prefer the terms "FUD" or "transparent Micro$haft shilling" but whatevs


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2012)

Netcraft has confirmed: *BSD is dying.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 13, 2012)

I used that the other day in a nerd crowd and no one got it: I felt old.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2012)

Eh, it just means that old trolls can now be effective again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2012)

The Verge have their video review of the new MacBook Pro with retina display.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 15, 2012)

Who actually does HD video editing on a 15" laptop?


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 15, 2012)

mauvais said:


> Who actually does HD video editing on a 15" laptop?


 
Hipsters, in cafes, for upload onto Vimeo.


----------



## TitanSound (Jun 15, 2012)

ExtraRefined said:


> Hipsters, in cafes, for upload onto Vimeo.


 
I went to the shop the other day as I was working from home. Outside the cafe near the shop, not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, but six trendy looking mac users with a coffee or smoothie tapping away or chatting on their iPhones about the next creative direction the project needs to take.

They're taking over.


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> I went to the shop the other day as I was working from home. Outside the cafe near the shop, not one, not two, not three, not four, not five, but six trendy looking mac users with a coffee or smoothie tapping away or chatting on their iPhones about the next creative direction the project needs to take.
> 
> They're taking over.


They're taking over the hipster world for sure, but behind the scenes most of the world is still running on boring old Windows. If all the Windows machines in the world suddenly stopped working, the world would collapse.


----------



## elbows (Jun 15, 2012)




----------



## 2hats (Jun 15, 2012)

editor said:


> If all the Windows machines in the world suddenly stopped working, the world would collapse.


 
Counted all the embedded systems have we?


----------



## gabi (Jun 15, 2012)

editor said:


> If all the Windows machines in the world suddenly stopped working, the world would collapse.


 
Yeh but if all the Apple OS running machines in the world collapsed a lot of the companies/artists producing the stuff that you like watching/reading/listening to would collapse.

(I can do lazy stereotypes too)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 15, 2012)

Latest rumor on The Verge is the 13" MacBook Pro is coming in October. Makes sense to give the 15" a few months breather but get a new one in time for the holiday season. So next year will see the disc versions being dropped?

Must say it is a little retro seeing Apple make such a big deal about their computer range after so much iOS focus...


----------



## 2hats (Jun 15, 2012)

gabi said:


> Yeh but if all the Apple OS running machines in the world collapsed a lot of the companies/artists producing the stuff that you like watching/reading/listening to would collapse.
> 
> (I can do lazy stereotypes too)


 
I'll go for the hat trick:

If all the Unix based devices in the world suddenly stopped working... Oh hang on. Not likely.


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2012)

gabi said:


> Yeh but if all the Apple OS running machines in the world collapsed a lot of the companies/artists producing the stuff that you like watching/reading/listening to would collapse.
> 
> (I can do lazy stereotypes too)


I think I'd rather have food on my plate and an intact infrastructure than the latest music video.

The point being that for all its uncoolness, Windows does a pretty amazing job.


2hats said:


> If all the Unix based devices in the world suddenly stopped working... Oh hang on. Not likely.


Yep, Same thing, but even more uncool.


----------



## elbows (Jun 15, 2012)

Its a bit like Y2K all over again


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 15, 2012)

Apple devotees pay thousands for computer with soldered-on RAM. $27k for a relic of St. Jobs too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 15, 2012)

elbows said:


> Its a bit like Y2K all over again




It's more than a little weird tbh.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 19, 2012)

Here's a good article about Mac Pro Hackintoshes if anyone is interested in that (single processor only, though):
http://lifehacker.com/5919132/build-the-mac-pro-that-you-wish-apple-released


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 19, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Here's a good article about Mac Pro Hackintoshes if anyone is interested in that (single processor only, though):
> http://lifehacker.com/5919132/build-the-mac-pro-that-you-wish-apple-released


 
The last one's a crap comparison: the only reason you'd buy a seven grand, 12-core box, would be if you actually needed that horsepower and had a workload that could use it. Comparing against a 4-core machine is silly. There's plenty of dual-LGA1366 boards out there although who knows if they'd work for a hackintosh.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 19, 2012)

the problem with hackintosh's is there's no support for when future updates bork up your hardware selection and it all stops working.

I was thinking about building a laptop hack though if thats possible? Havent really looked into it yet.

I randomly got an extra bit of money too this week, so I can afford my new macbook without financing, but im tempted to just get the retina one instead and finance half of it


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 19, 2012)

I hackintoshed a Dell Mini10v. 
It was awful.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Jun 19, 2012)

When Apple first announced the whole x86 move I remember arguing with a friend that it would cannibalise their hardware sales, to which he countered it would "only ever appeal to the Linux-on-a-toaster brigade". He was right.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 8, 2012)

> As one of the biggest proponents of green technology and environment friendly packaging, it’s a tad shocking that Apple itself is withdrawing its 39 products from the EPEAT. This means that none of the company’s products technically meet the industry’s green standard anymore. Many large companies, educational institutions, and the U.S. federal government require computers to come with an EPEAT certification, meaning a large portion of the enterprise and education sectors could be barred from purchasing Apple products now.


Cult of Mac link

What are they thinking? I was pretty pissed-off when I found out the iPad3 was so glued-up absolutely nothing is recyclable, but this move just seems idiotic.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 8, 2012)

That's staggeringly bad judgement and the green lobby will rightly crucify them for it.


----------



## elbows (Jul 8, 2012)

Its because they don't really care, they are more interested in various design aspects which happen to run contrary to the aim of easy disassembly and recycling. And they probably figure that they can sell more by making certain design choices of this sort than they will lose in sales to certain corporate & government customers.

Im not at all happy about it, but Im not entirely surprised since I've never credited them with having anything approaching decent priorities.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2012)

If this is as reported, then it represents dreadful, depressing, indefensible arrogance and self interest from the one company with ample resources and influence to be leading the way in this area.

My only hope is that it might lead to some sort of consumer/business boycott and end up losing Apple so much money they have to reconsider.

By comparison:


> According to EPEAT's registry of participating manufacturers, Dell (DELL) has 171 EPEAT-certified products, Hewlett Packard (HPQ) has 221, and Samsung has 309.
> http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/07/what-apple-lost-by-dropping-epeat-green-certification/


----------



## elbows (Jul 8, 2012)

All those numbers tell us is that those companies make more products, and remain very interested in having them certified. Although I would like to know if they have any products that aren't.

As for a customer boycott, sadly I don't think consumer priorities are much better than Apples own.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2012)

elbows said:


> All those numbers tell us is that those companies make more products, and remain very interested in having them certified.


It also suggests that they at least give some sort of a shit.

This user comment sums up how depressing this all is:


> Apple works for me, the stockholder, not the liberal ninnies at Greenpeace, PED. Who voted for Greenpeace to have any say over my company? I don't recall that vote in my proxy materials.
> 
> The eco-religious zealots won't be happy until we are all shivering in caves, naked. They should be scorned, before the last success story in America is adversely impacted.
> 
> http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/07/what-apple-lost-by-dropping-epeat-green-certification/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 8, 2012)

elbows said:


> All those numbers tell us is that those companies make more products, and remain very interested in having them certified. Although I would like to know if they have any products that aren't.
> 
> As for a customer boycott, sadly I don't think consumer priorities are much better than Apples own.



I don't see a consumer boycott happening naturally at all hence my comment about the green lobby. If they can make enough noise it might become an issue...but in truth I'm not that hopeful for even that...


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't see a consumer boycott happening naturally at all hence my comment about the green lobby. If they can make enough noise it might become an issue...but in truth I'm not that hopeful for even that...


Starts with individual buying decisions....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 8, 2012)

And goes nowhere without a either a proper organised campaign or the effect of this decision by Apple impacting people's daily lives.


----------



## elbows (Jul 8, 2012)

Boycotts work better when its either something that people buy a lot of, or when a lot of intense publicity can be generated around specific events (e.g. sports boycott of south africa). And to be honest they don't seem to work terribly well these days. Other forms of bad publicity are probably more effective.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 8, 2012)

It's a bit dated as things go, kinda like the many calls to sign a petition over things...


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And goes nowhere without a either a proper organised campaign or the effect of this decision by Apple impacting people's daily lives.


All boycotts have to start somewhere and any one can play a part in that.

They can inform their friends and social networks about bad corporate practices, make connections with other campaign groups, write to the company, or just refuse to buy their products until their change what they're doing.

Or, if you don't give a fuck about anything other than the next shiny gadget for your pocket, do nothing at all and keep on giving them your money no matter what they do.

Boycotts can and have made a difference though.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's a bit dated as things go, kinda like the many calls to sign a petition over things...


Wait, so boycotts are "dated" now?  What's the more fashionable way of doing things now, then?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Wait, so boycotts are "dated" now?  What's the more fashionable way of doing things now, then?



You think a petition would have been the best way of sparking the Arab spring?


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You think a petition would have been the best way of sparking the Arab spring?


It might be handy if you responded to words I actually said, rather than making things up. Why are boycotts 'dated'?


----------



## sim667 (Jul 9, 2012)

Someone posted this on facebook the other day. I took great delight in tearing it apart. Starting with the price. An equivalent mac pro with non mac screens costs just over half what they're claiming.

Also the specs are wrong, and that model of mac is upgradeable. Also the pc can't become a mac, it can become a hackintosh, which aren't anywhere near as reliable......

Yet another example of outlandish claims being made on facebook without thinking them through


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Someone posted this on facebook the other day. I took great delight in tearing it apart. Starting with the price. An equivalent mac pro with non mac screens costs just over half what they're claiming.
> 
> Also the specs are wrong, and that model of mac is upgradeable. Also the pc can't become a mac, it can become a hackintosh, which aren't anywhere near as reliable......
> 
> Yet another example of outlandish claims being made on facebook without thinking them through


What are you talking about?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 9, 2012)

I think there is an image missing


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

Crispy said:


> I think there is an image missing


Indeed, here it is. Real OS war ammo for fanboys.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 9, 2012)

I can tell without even looking it up, that the comparison is deliberately chosen to make the mac look bad. The mac pro _is _more expensive than an equivalent PC, but not by as much as that.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

The "can become a Mac" claim is misleading too. Sure, it is technically possible with much faffing about, but nowhere near as easy as running Windows on a Mac.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 9, 2012)

Oooops. cheers ed.

The fact it doesnt have 'upgradeable' on the mac side is also misleading. The mac pro is the most easily upgradeable machine I've owned I think. You dont even need a scredriver for most of it.

The mac price is probably high because of the screens......


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 9, 2012)

sim667 said:


> The mac price is probably high because of the screens......


Second screen: £900
Upgrade from two 2.4ghz 6-core Xeon processors to two 2.66ghz 6-core blah: £960

Erm. Can't find a Mac Pro with a single 1.5tb drive. Everything seems to be in multiples of 1.

I suspect that's based on older (or US-only?) models?

Possibly a top-of-the-range / maxed out older model?

e2a: in fact, I reckon that looks closer to a high-end / top of the range 2006 Mac Pro than a current one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro

e2a2: actually, maybe somewhere in between


----------



## sim667 (Jul 9, 2012)

Only a fool would buy a mac screen. They're shite.


----------



## elbows (Jul 9, 2012)

You would have to be mad or rich to buy Apples own screens, RAM upgrades and graphics cards.

With some reluctance I had to move away from Apple for the desktop because the choice of high-end 3D cards was just not up to scratch, and thats the only reason I have for still owning a desktop these days.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Indeed, here it is. Real OS war ammo for fanboys.
> 
> View attachment 20928


no actually it's a bullshit graphic with no source data or verifiable associated information... 

so unsupported sensationalist trolling bullshit....

AGAIN.

Care to post sources for the claims within your attachment which can be verified?

or are you once again posting up fact free information?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 9, 2012)

editor said:


> All boycotts have to start somewhere and any one can play a part in that.
> 
> They can inform their friends and social networks about bad corporate practices, make connections with other campaign groups, write to the company, or just refuse to buy their products until their change what they're doing.
> 
> ...


have the boycotts extended to Dell, Intel, Kingston, crucial, western digital, samsung etc etc etc etc... or is it only a relevant boycott if it's against apple... 

the answer is no it hasn't... 

Wheres the impact on this to other manufacturers?

So really this is simply an anti apple campaign dressed up with faux environmentalist credentials and you leapt on is due to your peculiar instance on continuing a fanboi war deemed irrelevant years ago...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 9, 2012)

hmmm epeat was signed in to law by Dubya... gotta figger that's not a good thing....


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> have the boycotts extended to Dell, Intel, Kingston, crucial, western digital, samsung etc etc etc etc... or is it only a relevant boycott if it's against apple...
> 
> the answer is no it hasn't...
> 
> ...


It's clear that you're not up to speed here, so allow me to update you: Apple are the only ones who are refusing to have their products rated under this environmental scheme.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no actually it's a bullshit graphic with no source data or verifiable associated information...
> 
> so unsupported sensationalist trolling bullshit....
> 
> ...


You logic train seems to have derailed and crashed down an embankment into a forest of deep confusion.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 9, 2012)

editor said:


> You logic train seems to have derailed and crashed down an embankment into a forest of deep confusion.


no YOU logic train etc... 

so that's a no to the being able to provide evidence for your fact free assertions posted by graphic then... kk  Thanks for confirming what we all knew...


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no YOU logic train etc...
> 
> so that's a no to the being able to provide evidence for your fact free assertions posted by graphic then... kk Thanks for confirming what we all knew...


Oh dear. You're not payng attention, are you?

I only posted the graphic to help out sim667.  Reread the thread and then get your apologies ready.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh dear. You're not payng attention, are you?
> 
> I only posted the graphic to help out sim667. Reread the thread and then get your apologies ready.


sorry captain fact free?  say again?


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> sorry captain fact free? say again?


I only posted the graphic because sim677 was having trouble getting it to work in his post, i.e. I was helping him out.

Has the penny dropped yet?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 9, 2012)

editor said:


> I only posted the graphic because sim677 was having trouble getting it to work in his post, i.e. I was helping him out.
> 
> Has the penny dropped yet?


yeah like I said SORRY captian fact free...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 9, 2012)

So...is this the jolly good humored banter we've been reading about?


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So...is this the jolly good humored banter we've been reading about?


I've no idea what's he ranting about, tbh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 9, 2012)

It'd be nice if at least one tech thread didn't descend into the usual shitstorm of bullshit.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It'd be nice if at least one tech thread didn't descend into the usual shitstorm of bullshit.


Let's nip it in the bud then. Do you know what he's talking about? I seem to be getting a load of random flak for helping sim667 out.


----------



## grit (Jul 9, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> It'd be nice if at least one tech thread didn't descend into the usual shitstorm of bullshit.



I find the consistency weirdly comforting,


----------



## sim667 (Jul 10, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no actually it's a bullshit graphic with no source data or verifiable associated information...
> 
> so unsupported sensationalist trolling bullshit....
> 
> ...



'Garf in failing to read thread properly shocker'


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 10, 2012)

In case anyone missed it, the upgrade to OS X Mountain Lion will be priced at £13.99 for the App Store download.

The "gold master" has been released to developers and should be generally available this month.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 10, 2012)

Hmmmmm I'm thinking about doing the hard drive upgrade route again.

Buy new hard drive, install mountain lion, migrate from old hard drive. Turn old hard drive into media drive (my media drive is now full).

Then I'd have mountain lion or whatever it's called, a snow leopard drive for legacy apps, and 1 tb media drive and a spare 650gb drive.

Id have to not have the media drive using time capsule as my time capsule isn't quite big enough I don't reckon, but I could buy a second internal 1 tb and have an internal raid 1 array


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## peterkro (Jul 10, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> In case anyone missed it, the upgrade to OS X Mountain Lion will be priced at £13.99 for the App Store download.
> 
> The "gold master" has been released to developers and should be generally available this month.


iMZDL have released it,shit load of seeders and leechers.


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2012)

Well, it's starting small, but the PR kickback has begun:


> San Francisco plans to ban officials from buying Apple Macs
> 
> City officials in San Francisco plan to block local government agencies from buying new Apple Macintosh computers.
> The move follows the firm's decision to pull out of a green certification scheme designed to identify which electronic devices pose the least risk to the environment.
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Well, it's starting small, but the PR kickback has begun:



Cos they're now not on the list of things they can buy after Bush passed that legislation? Yup, non story really when that law came in and Apple decided to opt out


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Cos they're now not on the list of things they can buy after Bush passed that legislation? Yup, non story really when that law came in and Apple decided to opt out


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Well, it's starting small, but the PR kickback has begun:


Yeah, I wish one of my old devices would hurry up and die then I could take it to a store and scream "recycle this you capitalist pigs!"


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 11, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Cos they're now not on the list of things they can buy after Bush passed that legislation? Yup, non story really when that law came in and Apple decided to opt out



I'm betting this won't deny Apple sales and profits in the slightest.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

Their trend towards unrecyclability is not good.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Their trend towards unrecyclability is not good.


It's the move to no upgradeability that narks me,soldering RAM to board? surely to Christ one of Apples engineers could work out a way to fit a socket even if space is at a premium.Recyclability is frankly a joke when talking of laptops.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 11, 2012)

I think the unupgradeability could be their downfall with regards to the retina macbook.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Their trend towards unrecyclability is not good.


Indeed and it's not something that should be dismissed. They're the wealthiest, most influential tech company on the planet and should be leading by example.

Mind you, if you want to get really depressed about this, take a look at some the prevailing attitudes on the on the Apple/tech blogs.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

MacWorld have just published an article. The gist appears to be that Apple are more interested in style than the environment. 



> Apple has made it difficult for recyclers to disassemble its latest MacBook Pro with Retina display, which was announced in June. In a teardown, iFixit CEO Kyle Wiens called the laptop the "least repairable" to date. IFixit said that the LCD, which is attached, and the battery, which is glued to the case, made the laptop hard to disassemble and recycle.
> "The design may well be comprised of 'highly recyclable aluminum and glass' -- but my friends in the electronics recycling industry tell me they have no way of recycling aluminum that has glass glued to it like Apple did with both this machine and the recent iPad. The design pattern has serious consequences not only for consumers and the environment, but also for the tech industry as a whole," Wiens wrote in a blog entry...
> 
> Environmental organizations Greenpeace, Electronics Takeback Coalition and Basel Action Network also criticized the EPEAT decision-making process as being time-consuming and difficult, and also said top stakeholders out-muscled many of their requests. However, the organizations said that while EPEAT may not be perfect, it provided basic guidelines to build environmentally responsible PCs.
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


>



Not what I mean at all. US govt departments can no longer buy Apple kit, we know that, it's been posted here and reported widely. 'city officials plan to block govt agencies from buying apple gear'... Plan to? Huh? You're not allowed to buy it now... Sensationalist article.

I agree it's shit they care less about recycling etc


----------



## sim667 (Jul 11, 2012)

Whilst I agree about the recycling and that they should be more recyclable, at the same time the longetivity of their products is being a little overlook.

When the bloke put that picture up the other day, he claimed that for mac money he could buy a new pc every 2 years for six years for the price of the mac. Most PC users I know have very high kit turn over replacing their stuff every couple of years (I don't reckon a lot of urban will as you tend to be a hands on lot). Going that basis, in the amount of time I've had a PowerBook, (9years) which still runs and is usable, he'll of had 4 or 5 computers.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Whilst I agree about the recycling and that they should be more recyclable, at the same time the longetivity of their products is being a little overlook.
> 
> When the bloke put that picture up the other day, he claimed that for mac money he could buy a new pc every 2 years for six years for the price of the mac. Most PC users I know have very high kit turn over replacing their stuff every couple of years (I don't reckon a lot of urban will as you tend to be a hands on lot). Going that basis, in the amount of time I've had a PowerBook, (9years) which still runs and is usable, he'll of had 4 or 5 computers.


 
I guessing you can replace the battery in that powerbook. The new ones have the battery _glued in_ according to the report above, which is either massively stupid or a work of evil genius.  Battery knackered?  BUY A NEW LAPTOP.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I guessing you can replace the battery in that powerbook. The new ones have the battery _glued in_ according to the report above, which is either massively stupid or a work of evil genius. Battery knackered? BUY A NEW LAPTOP.


Apple will replace it for a not inconsiderable price of $199 which in the UK will nearly be that in £'s.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Battery knackered? BUY A NEW LAPTOP.


Well, pay through the nose at an Apple store to get a new one fitted anyway


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm guessing battery manufacturers will come up with a cheaper option for those not fazed by doing open heart surgery on their laptops.By the way my laptop is 41months old and battery is still at 90% design capacity they are claiming 1000 cycles before retina battery drops to 80% capacity.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

peterkro said:


> I'm guessing battery manufacturers will come up with a cheaper option for those not fazed by doing open heart surgery on their laptops.


The open-heart surgery experts at ifixit couldn't see a way. I just don't think it's possible.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The open-heart surgery experts at ifixit couldn't see a way. I just don't think it's possible.


Which raises an interesting question does Apple change out your battery or give you a refurb as they do with iOs things.iFixit tend to exaggerate the difficulty of doing things,some bright spark will figure it out.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Which raises an interesting question does Apple change out your battery or give you a refurb as they do with iOs things.iFixit tend to exaggerate the difficulty of doing things,some bright spark will figure it out.


Techniques available in factories are not neccesarily available to the home user. Even if third parties do manage to figure it out, I doubt it will cost the user substantially less than Apple's method, whilst not being warrantied.

Current UK prices for battery replacement are £99 for an Air and £159 for a retina Pro.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

It's the only laptop I've ever heard of that doesn't allow you to switch batteries yourself.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> It's the only laptop I've ever heard of that doesn't allow you to switch batteries yourself.


Most "ultrabooks" are the same.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Most "ultrabooks" are the same.


 
I guess that shows how out of touch I am with this stuff.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2012)

It's the price you pay if you want your laptop to be 4mm thinner.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 11, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> I guessing you can replace the battery in that powerbook. The new ones have the battery _glued in_ according to the report above, which is either massively stupid or a work of evil genius. Battery knackered? BUY A NEW LAPTOP.


 
Maybe the retina ones do, but I took my brand new non retina apart yesterday and you can change the battery in that no problem.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 11, 2012)

Oh and the original question, my old powerbook, you just unclip the old battery and stick in the new one.


----------



## grit (Jul 11, 2012)

peterkro said:


> It's the move to no upgradeability that narks me,soldering RAM to board? surely to Christ one of Apples engineers could work out a way to fit a socket even if space is at a premium.


 
Of course they can, its a deliberate decision


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Maybe the retina ones do, but I took my brand new non retina apart yesterday and you can change the battery in that no problem.


 Presumably you can kiss your warranty goodbye at this point?


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Presumably you can kiss your warranty goodbye at this point?


Bit of a moot point as if you need to change the battery under warranty Apple will do it and out of warranty it's er out of warranty.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Presumably you can kiss your warranty goodbye at this point?


 No, I checked it in the apple shop and he said it would be fine.....

Infact he suggested I replace the RAM myself because it was cheaper and they didnt have enough time. On non retina macbook pros RAM and Harddrives are considered user installable parts and therefore you can replace them and still be under warranty.

If I ever have to take it back I can just stick the old ram sticks in anyway, its a 5 min job.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 11, 2012)

They even tell you how to do it look.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1270


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> They even tell you how to do it look.
> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1270


You were talking _batteries_, not RAM (" I took my brand new non retina apart yesterday and you can change the battery in that no problem.").

Do Apple tell you how to change the battery anywhere or would that void your warranty?


----------



## sim667 (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> You were talking _batteries_, not RAM (" I took my brand new non retina apart yesterday and you can change the battery in that no problem.").
> 
> Do Apple tell you how to change the battery anywhere or would that void your warranty?


 
oh sorry.

I have no idea.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> You were talking _batteries_, not RAM (" I took my brand new non retina apart yesterday and you can change the battery in that no problem.").
> 
> Do Apple tell you how to change the battery anywhere or would that void your warranty?


The battery has a "don't remove" sticker on it which is easy to remove and replace,as I said earlier if your battery craps out under warranty Apple will replace it which kind off makes it moot.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

sim667 said:


> oh sorry.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

peterkro said:


> The battery has a "don't remove" sticker on it which is easy to remove and replace,as I said earlier if your battery craps out under warranty Apple will replace it which kind off makes it moot.


Unless you want to travel light and just carry a back up battery, of course.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Unless you want to travel light and just carry a back up battery, of course.


We're back in HyperMac territory.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2012)

peterkro said:


> We're back in HyperMac territory.


I said "travel light".


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2012)

editor said:


> I said "travel light".


The only thing I can think of for HyperMac is making a doco on the Skeleton coast and uploading it by satellite phone to a broadcaster.Otherwise why carry around a battery that's bigger than what's in your vehicle and three times the size of your laptop.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 11, 2012)

Blimey, even their recruitment videos are like product marketing vids!


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2012)

"Thinking outside the box, its funny we dont even really think about the box."

Aaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh

God I hate their culture and their propaganda. I cant imagine working for them. Obviously no personal experience of what its like but its just too creepy and and oppressive to contemplate. Lord wont you send me a Dada Gonzo IT company that I would actually like to work for.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 12, 2012)

elbows said:


> "Thinking outside the box, its funny we dont even really think about the box."


 
No. They obsess over the rounded corners instead.

OR



> "we dont even really think about the box."


 
Presumably a reference to the Xserve?


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Blimey, even their recruitment videos are like product marketing vids!


Barf-worthy bullshit. It's like a recruitment movie for a cult.

_"Apple is all about doing the best thing possible."_

Except when it comes to the environment or workers' rights, of course. Or sharing the wealth. Or generally giving a fuck.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 12, 2012)

I have managed to get to age 47 without feeling the need (at all) to buy an Apple product.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 12, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I have managed to get to age 47 without feeling the need (at all) to buy an Apple product.



That's some achievement.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 12, 2012)

All the people in that recruitment video would annoy the shit out of me.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 12, 2012)

weltweit said:


> I have managed to get to age 47 without feeling the need (at all) to buy an Apple product.


Just think how much cooler you could've been if you'd managed to get to 47 without feeling the need (at all) to post on an Apple thread.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 12, 2012)

The little twerp in the mac shop when I bought my macbook was a prime specimen of apple brainwashing unfortunately.

That said he did tell me it was cheaper install my own ram, so he must have some resemblance of logical thought left.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> The little twerp in the mac shop when I bought my macbook was a prime specimen of apple brainwashing unfortunately.


I've been surprised at how little some of the shop floor staff apparently know, given the size of Apple's product range.

When I bought my desktop, the bloke on the shop floor insisted that the iMac and MacBook were identical, apart from the screen - right down to the laptops having quad core processors.

Won't even bother to go into my shennanigans with the AirBook, but my *one* opening and crystal clear statement - that I don't see the point of an 11" if it's only got 5hrs battery; and that I don't see the point of a 13" if the Pro (with SSD) is only 600g heavier with a far heftier processor - turned out to be exactly the reason I returned the AirBook 5hrs after buying it, having been talked into it by an inordinately enthusiastic shop bloke.

And he couldn't name one 'advantage' of the 13" Air over the 13" Pro - when I've since discovered that the screen resolution's different (tbh, I would've been tempted to try that out, had I known about it).

I... can't really see myself listening to them again, tbh. They're clearly great at hanging around the elbows of people who aren't very sure what they want. I get the impression that they're often a bit crap at actually knowing the specs / capacities of the machines they sell, and a bit crap at listening sometimes, too.

That said, I've never bought anything (or had anything repaired) there without - at some point - being asked what I do for a living, and often being told what they 'really' do, outside of the Apple store (musician, games developer, etc)  Great at the 'friendly,' bit shit at the important stuff. IMO.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 12, 2012)

I preferred it when the staff wore job-specific coloured t-shirts.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> That said, I've never bought anything (or had anything repaired) there without - at some point - being asked what I do for a living, and often being told what they 'really' do, outside of the Apple store (musician, games developer, etc)  Great at the 'friendly,' bit shit at the important stuff. IMO.


 
Yeah I get that whenever I go in.

'So what do you do'

'I'm a mac technician'

'Oh you should work on our genius bar'

'No, I'm a proper mac technician, working with networks, digital print and imaging software, not someone who restores stuff to its factory default, and then just swaps it if it doesnt work'

'Oh, can I interest you in one to one training?'

'Just sell me the mac'

thats kind of how it went.


----------



## pesh (Jul 12, 2012)

i've got photoshop and wifi, can i be a mac technician?


----------



## peterkro (Jul 12, 2012)

Given that all the repair manuals are floating about the internet I'm pretty sure most people could become one,why? well that's a different question.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 12, 2012)

pesh said:


> i've got photoshop and wifi, can i be a mac technician?


 
Pretty much yeah.


Ok maybe not, you need some terminal knowledge, use of the entire CS suite, and final cut pro, understand permissions, and ACL's (for my particular job anyway)

You also need to understand chemical photographic printing (i started as a photo tech, became a mac tech, and now im a photo and mac/general computery stuff)


----------



## pesh (Jul 12, 2012)

cool, i'm in... Mac Technician sounds way better than Vidiot


----------



## sim667 (Jul 12, 2012)

wut is a vidiot?


----------



## peterkro (Jul 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> wut is a vidiot?


Sony tech I think.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 12, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Sony tech I think.


 
Bleurgh. Say no more.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2012)

sim667 said:


> wut is a vidiot?


 
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vidiot


----------



## sim667 (Jul 12, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=vidiot


 
Thanks, but its blocked at work


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 12, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> When I bought my desktop, the bloke on the shop floor insisted that the iMac and MacBook were identical, apart from the screen - right down to the laptops having quad core processors.


 
Some of the laptops do have quad core processors.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 12, 2012)

*1.* *Vidiot* *61* up, *13* down​ 
A person habitually consumed in video or computer games to the point of losing contact with the world around him, often evidenced by a blank or glazed look and disheveled appearance.
_He's such a vidiot he didn't even look up when the phone rang._
buy vidiot mugs & shirts
idiot oblivious video junkie game junkie tuned out 
by Sweeby Dec 22, 2005 share this add a video
*2.* *Vidiot* *23* up, *7* down​ 
A word thought to describe someone who obsesses over videogames but was actually a term used earlier by Ken Nordine, the spoken-word story-telling Jazz musician in his song "The Vidiot" to describe someone who obsesses over television. This term was used before it was applied to games but has now become most popularly associated with them.
_Person1 (to Person2): How many hours do you spend a day watching television?" 

Person2 (to Person1): Oh... I don't know... about 18... 

Person1 (to Person2): You're a total vidiot, man!_
buy vidiot mugs & shirts
vidiot videogame television idiot tv addict 
by Jon Ingram Dec 11, 2005 share this add a video


----------



## sim667 (Jul 12, 2012)

Basically a goon with the social skills of an amoeba.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 12, 2012)

fen_boy said:


> Some of the laptops do have quad core processors.


OK 

But the 13" ones I was looking at *very definitely didn't*


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 13, 2012)

Apple has re-embraced EPEAT


> We’ve recently heard from many loyal Apple customers who were disappointed to learn that we had removed our products from the EPEAT rating system. I recognize that this was a mistake. Starting today, all eligible Apple products are back on EPEAT
> 
> Letter from Bob Mansfield.


Cult of Mac link


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2012)

Um what? That's a strange turn about...have they managed to really change all their future designs to comply in a matter of a week??


----------



## editor (Jul 13, 2012)

LOL. Looks like Apple haven't a fucking clue what they're doing since Jobs died.

Looks like the proposed boycott had an impact too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2012)

This is very odd. If I were a shareholder I'd have a raised eyebrow rising so far it'd be working it's way over down the back of my head! Be interesting to see if anything else lay behind this.


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Um what? That's a strange turn about...have they managed to really change all their future designs to comply in a matter of a week??


 
Note the phrase 'all eligible Apple products'. They wont have changed any product designs yet, and indeed its entirely unclear if this fail will influence their future thinking when it comes to products. At this point it just means they havent pulled out existing products that can still meet the requirements to be on that register.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> Note the phrase 'all eligible Apple products'. They wont have changed any product designs yet, and indeed its entirely unclear if this fail will influence their future thinking when it comes to products. At this point it just means they havent pulled out existing products that can still meet the requirements to be on that register.


 
It's interesting the amount of press they're getting over this too, and their spin it's not about losing government contracts it's listening to their users. Clever.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 13, 2012)

A bit of a co-ordinated response to criticism, perhaps there will be a change in standards.


> _EPEAT CEO Robert Frisbee also __wrote a letter__ confirming Apple and EPEAT's commitment to working together and hinting at future changes to the EPEAT judging process to work with Apple as it continues its cutting edge computer designs._


EPEATS's link


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2012)

So not a straight forward loss then? This is looking more and more like a piece of PR theatre...


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2012)

What do you mean by loss?

Im not exactly sure what sort of PR theatre you mean either - it might become one now, but the original Apple decision was clearly a PR fail rather than a cunning plan.

Frankly Im not too surprised that there is now talk of EPEAT evolving their standards, since the original stories did hint at the EPEAT standards lagging behind the times. Frankly Im afraid I have a fairly dim view of these sorts of standards at the best of times, there is still far too much greenwashing going on and at the end of the day the business models that require consumers to keep buying new hardware all the time are the problem, a problem that recycling barely masks even when done 'properly'.


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## peterkro (Jul 13, 2012)

EPEAT have arranged their standards before at the behest of multinationals,looks like they've just done it again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2012)

peterkro said:


> EPEAT have arranged their standards before at the behest of multinationals,looks like they've just done it again.



Yup so not a real loss by Apple. There's something staged about all this...


----------



## elbows (Jul 13, 2012)

Staging something that makes them look stupid? Not likely. If it was simply a case of Apple desiring EPEAT change their standards then I think they would have tried to do it quietly. It seems more likely that they just thought they could drop out altogether without causing many ripples, realised they'd got that wrong and have now returned to the table. Changing the standards will now be part of the equation, but I really doubt that was their original aim.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

This smells a bit funny, no? Oh hang on, Apple appear to be_ awarding themselves_ the top rating!


> Retina MacBook mysteriously gets Gold EPEAT rating
> To the surprise of many, not only has Apple has returned to EPEAT, the MacBook Pro with Retina Display, widely thought to be the reason for the company’s departure from the green rating, has achieved the highest rating of a Gold label.
> The reason for the surprise is that the battery in the MacBook Pro with Retina Display is fixed to the aluminium frame in such a way that it cannot be removed, and that means that the laptop can’t be easily dismantled by recyclers.
> Electronics TakeBack Coalition national coordinator Barbara Kyle wrote on the organisation’s website: "We seriously doubt that these MacBooks should qualify for EPEAT at any level because we think they flunk two required criteria in the 'Design for End of Life' section of the standard.”
> ...


http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/?newsid=3370097


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2012)

Like I said this whole thing doesn't feel right, my pr anttenea are twitching!


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Apple are turning into comedy gold these days.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2012)

Erm ok, it's not actually that funny...just unusual...


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2012)

Admitting they were wrong to withdraw and responding quickly was a bit of a first for them.

Now, about that Apps update screwup and the Russian fellow...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Admitting they were wrong to withdraw and resonding quickly was a bit of a first for them.
> 
> Now, about that the Apps update screwup and the Russian fellow...


 
Yep they've always played the 'never apologise, always deny' strategy it seems...


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## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Erm ok, it's not actually that funny...just unusual...


What, storming off in a big huff from an environmental rating scheme they helped set up because they knew that their new laptop wouldn't get a top rating, but then changing their mind when the PR started to look bad? And to top of it off, awarding themselves the top rating anyway even though it's as iffy as fuck?  I think it's hilarious. 


maldwyn said:


> Now, about that the Apps update screwup and the Russian fellow...


The LOLs just keep on coming!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2012)

I think you have to be pretty desperate to find this stuff genuinely funny. The stuff of stand up material it aint.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think you have to be pretty desperate to find this stuff genuinely funny. The stuff of stand up material it aint.


Personally, I love seeing a stinking rich greedy corporate with an appalling record on the environment and workers rights making a total fucking arse of themselves, especially when they're getting caught out on greenwashing. Love it.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Personally, I love seeing a stinking rich greedy corporate with an appalling record on the environment and workers rights making a total fucking arse of themselves, especially when they're getting caught out on greenwashing. Love it.


Woke up on this thread, on this post, and until I scanned up thought I was in the Olympics forum


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## elbows (Jul 17, 2012)

If you are interested in greenwashing then I think the story is not merely one of Apple getting 'caught out', but the nature of EPEAT itself.

From their website:



> Our relationship with Apple is based on our natural alignment – as Apple drives innovation in product design, EPEAT drives innovation in standards design. EPEAT has pioneered voluntary standards, after-market verification, optional criteria and tiered product certification as ways to keep pace with a fast-paced industry.


 
Smells bad, and Apple have not so much been caught out, rather they've made a mockery of that which deserves to be mocked and exposed: after-market verification.

I want proper enforceable standards, not the industries own shitty answer to this. Im not kidding myself, pretty much the entire industry is part of the problem. I want to see product lifecycles slowed down for a start, so my initial ranting at Apple over environmental issues would be along the lines of not tying certain new software features to only the latest hardware.


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## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

elbows said:


> If you are interested in greenwashing then I think the story is not merely one of Apple getting 'caught out', but the nature of EPEAT itself.
> 
> From their website:
> Smells bad, and Apple have not so much been caught out, rather they've made a mockery of that which deserves to be mocked and exposed: after-market verification.


Right. So we should in fact be _applauding_ Apple for their pioneering efforts in exposing greenwashing because they're really on our side and this was all part of a cunning strategy to highlight poor environmental standards because _they care?_

Apple have a fucking shitty environmental record, despite being obscenely profitable they've given just about fuck all to charity for years on end and the company have a dreadful record on workers rights.

I'm sure some companies are just as bad, but come on: quit trying to make out that they give much of a fuck and this wasn't anything other than Apple trying it on and failing miserably.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2012)

elbows said:


> If you are interested in greenwashing then I think the story is not merely one of Apple getting 'caught out', but the nature of EPEAT itself.
> 
> From their website:
> 
> ...



Well said.


----------



## elbows (Jul 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Right. So we should in fact be _applauding_ Apple for their pioneering efforts in exposing greenwashing because they're really on our side and this was all part of a cunning strategy to highlight poor environmental standards because _they care?_



Thats not what I said either. You really are not worth debating with are you, since you never fail to make your agenda clear, and dont actually seem very interested in the broader issues when I try to discuss them and put things in perspective.


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

elbows said:


> Thats not what I said either. You really are not worth debating with are you, since you never fail to make your agenda clear, and dont actually seem very interested in the broader issues when I try to discuss them and put things in perspective.


Trying to spin Apple's actions into a positive light with the suggestion that they were pro-actively making "a mockery of that which deserves to be mocked and exposed: after-market verification" really was facepalm-stuff. It was an Apple fuck up from the start - a company with a particularly dreadful attitude towards anything that stops them making even more profits for themselves.


----------



## elbows (Jul 17, 2012)

I wasnt trying to spin it.I was trying to expand on it, trying to make clear that the EPEAT is a tool of industry, and that I personally place it under a greenwashing banner. Im trying to say that even if Apple meets EPEAT standards, it doesnt impress me all that much. And I certainly did not mean to suggest that Apple deliberately made a mockery of EPEAT, were deliberately trying to make a mockery of the scheme. I did say that they achieved that, but I meant by accident not design, and because personally I had never heard of EPEAT before and I wasnt very impressed with the detail when I did look. Had you heard of it before this Apple fuckup? Are you impressed with the scheme? I suppose its better than nothing, but I struggle to get too excited about the recycling of IT hardware since its a messy, nasty business at some stage, regardless of many of the details EPEAT look at. Too many nasty chemicals, and its always better to try to use a device for longer/reuse a device intact than to recycle its components.

I dont believe I have ever attempted to seriously applaud Apples environmental credentials. They improved certain specific things a bit after criticism from Greenpeace some years ago but so what, it was nothing to applaud, nothing that buys the planet or resources more time, nothing that saves many from an early grave. Rather in these sorts of arguments with you what I am usually seeking to demonstrate is that whilst Apple are offenders, your attempts to throw rocks at them from the moral highground is flawed by the fact that industry at a whole is usually the problem, there is little moral high ground to be felt, regardless of philanthropy or whatever. This is not supposed to downplay Apples own role, or hide the fact that they might be worse than some others in specific ways, but it is supposed to be questioning your own moral crusades since you seem to cheerlead for other corporations as part of your particular loathing for Apple. I have no problem with you loathing Apple, what I object to is the way this narrows your focus in an absurd manner, sometimes making a mockery of any moral argument.

For example I have very mixed feelings about hardware sales figures. On the one hand as a developer and someone who see's some useful potential in placing a variety of technology in peoples hands, I want a nice variety of devices to do well. But if I put my environmental & exploitation hat on then the news that Samsung have sold 50 gazillion smartphones does not exactly make me want to cheer, and its not because its Samsung rather than Apple.

Although I have no particular hope or desire to change your opinion of Apple or anything else, and although I often express some frustration at the nature of these discussions, I shall probably keep on responding in future. Probably because whether its technical, historical or moral dimensions you are trying to bring into play, I am a fan of both detail and the bigger picture, and Im not up for having these subjects whittled down to a crude stick to poke Apple with.

Im sure I word things badly or get facts wrong sometimes, and I certainly use too many words most of the time, but I dont mid taking this risk. I would hope others will point out if I make a ludicrous-sounding claim, when its just you I shall


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2012)

Looks like Apple have another u-turn on their hands, they've added two features back to the 3GS in iOS6:



> But with yesterday's release of iOS 6 Beta 3 for developers, Apple has improved feature support for the iPhone 3GS, adding shared Photo Streams and VIP mail filtering. The change was noticed by a number of iPhone 3GS users, and Apple has confirmed the removal of those restrictions on its iOS 6 preview page.
> 
> While the iOS 6 preview page previously contained eight footnotes outlining various restrictions on features, that number has been reduced to six following the release of iOS 6 Beta 3. The two removed footnotes include:
> _- Shared Photo Streams requires iOS 6 on iPhone 4 or later or iPad 2 or later, or a Mac computer with OS X Mountain Lion. An up-to-date browser is required for accessing shared photo streams on the web.
> ...


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 17, 2012)

U-turn if you want to... 


> The good news? In OS X Mountain Lion, Apple’s re-introducing “Save as…” ​Read more at http://www.cultofmac.com/173265/save-as-quietly-returns-to-os-x-in-mountain-lion-but-apples-still-being-stupid-about-it/#1FytWW6gcfQMQDQv.99​​


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

> The good news? In OS X Mountain Lion, Apple’s re-introducing “Save as…” The bad news? It’s still hidden and unavailable from menus, but instead only accessible through a convoluted keyboard shortcute: Command-Shift-Option-S. For power users only, in other words. There’s no way to just discover it.
> 
> Here’s a thought, Apple… if you’re willing to backpedal this far, why not just go all the way and put it in the damn menus?


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

Thinking about it, not having 'save as' would be an almighty pain in the arse. I use it regularly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> U-turn if you want to...


 
Woohoo that feature I never even noticed had gone returns!


----------



## elbows (Jul 17, 2012)

editor said:


> Thinking about it, not having 'save as' would be an almighty pain in the arse. I use it regularly.


 
Yes, although to be honest the proper story is only apparent if we consider this feature along with a couple of other changes Apple have been making to OS X as part of both the cloud stuff, and changing the way the computer remembers what you last had open, how to revert to previous versions etc.

Not that I think the story becomes much nicer for me personally if we do include all these details. Its part of an agenda to make filesystems far more invisible to users, which in theory has some merits but in practice Im not sure I like how they've tried to do it on their desktop/laptop OS. Im not sure its going to work out any less confusing for certain users, or less likely to result in them losing stuff one way or another. But I have this nagging feeling that Im not best placed to judge, since I am rather wedded to filesystems and am very comfortable managing all that stuff myself, as Im sure many are including you. 

I also have problems with all this stuff because whilst I can see various plus points to cloud services, I get a bit concerned by issues of control, money and privacy issues.  Couple these things with a sense I have that no company has yet nailed it and found the perfect UI & set of compromises for dealing with multi-device, seamless cloud hosting of a variety of different files, including sandboxing & inter-app file transportation issues, and I think this is one of the remaining areas where this age of smarter stuff still leaves much room for improvement.


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

Sometimes I just want to save another version of a file with a different name somewhere else for later reference. Can't do that without 'save as' as far as I can see.


----------



## elbows (Jul 17, 2012)

There are ways, but since I've mostly tried to avoid this stuff on my macbook since not getting on well with it Im not the best one to try to explain. But it might be covered by options such as 'duplicate' that may lurk in apps that have embraced this stuff. I cant remember, since there are only a couple of apps Im using which have fully utilised this stuff in OS X. With these apps I dont like it but I can live with it, work around it, it just doesnt end up giving me any benefit or saving time so Im not a fan really.

Similar story with the whole 'apps remember what documents you had open last time' - saves me time in some apps, but in others where I may have rather a lot of stuff open, I tend to make more of a mess and waste time rather than saving any. I have groaned on a number of occasions when opening my browser to discover that Im going to have to waste time waiting for loads of tabs I dont want to load, or that I've ended up loading 6 other 3D models into my 3D package in addition to the one I just clicked on and wanted to work with inside the app. Not quite frustrated enough to bother looking for ways to turn this off yet, since it does save time sometimes, but I've certainly been temped once or twice.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Sometimes I just want to save another version of a file with a different name somewhere else for later reference. Can't do that without 'save as' as far as I can see.


In osx 10.7, there is a Duplicate command in the File menu, which achieves a similar goal.

However, the need to come back to a different version for later reference is met by the version history feature. Every file that is saved using the 10.7 file system API automatically records it's own version history, accessible at any time and opened in a new window.

There isn't reduced functionality, it's just a different approach to version control, which is what Save As is mostly used for.

Takes some getting used to, and I'm not sure if it's the best way of going about it.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2012)

Crispy said:


> In osx 10.7, there is a Duplicate command in the File menu, which achieves a similar goal.
> 
> However, the need to come back to a different version for later reference is met by the version history feature. Every file that is saved using the 10.7 file system API automatically records it's own version history, accessible at any time and opened in a new window.
> 
> ...


I think I still prefer the simplicity of 'save as' to be honest.


----------



## Winot (Jul 19, 2012)

Crispy said:


> In osx 10.7, there is a Duplicate command in the File menu, which achieves a similar goal.
> 
> However, the need to come back to a different version for later reference is met by the version history feature. Every file that is saved using the 10.7 file system API automatically records it's own version history, accessible at any time and opened in a new window.
> 
> ...


 
What about if you want to save in a different format?  I know you use 'publish as' for pdfs, but how do you switch between other formats without save as?


----------



## 2hats (Jul 19, 2012)

Winot said:


> What about if you want to save in a different format? I know you use 'publish as' for pdfs, but how do you switch between other formats without save as?


 
It's the subtle distinction between this format is 'native' (understood) by this application so you may 'save as' (preserving all information content), versus this is someone else's format that this application doesn't understand as such though it will write so you may 'export' to it (perhaps losing some degree of information in the process)?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 19, 2012)

The Export vs Save As distinction does make sense, and in fact I agree with it - if you lose information you should think of it as an export. However, the OS X versioning is useless when editing documents across multiple machines, and quite often I want an actual duplicate file from a certain time period for my own personal archiving. I must say that I don't normally use Save As for that, I zip the file in the Finder and archive the zip while keeping working on the original.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Export vs Save As distinction does make sense, and in fact I agree with it - if you lose information you should think of it as an export. However, the OS X versioning is useless when editing documents across multiple machines, and quite often I want an actual duplicate file from a certain time period for my own personal archiving. I must say that I don't normally use Save As for that, I zip the file in the Finder and archive the zip while keeping working on the original.


 
That'll probably change with documents in the iCloud?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 19, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That'll probably change with documents in the iCloud?


Why?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2012)

Sorry misread your post...


----------



## redsquirrel (Jul 20, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Export vs Save As distinction does make sense, and in fact I agree with it - if you lose information you should think of it as an export. However, the OS X versioning is useless when editing documents across multiple machines, and quite often I want an actual duplicate file from a certain time period for my own personal archiving. I must say that I don't normally use Save As for that, I zip the file in the Finder and archive the zip while keeping working on the original.


What happens if you just cp the word/pages file from a terminal window? Wouldn't that work as an effective Save As?

(I've just realised that in all these years I've never tried to cp a word/pages file)


----------



## kwaimaisabai (Jul 20, 2012)

editor said:


> I think I still prefer the simplicity of 'save as' to be honest.


 
I'm not too bothered about the "Save As" but if they'd told me that Oracle would stop working and there was no rollback then I would have never have installed Lion in the first place.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 20, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> What happens if you just cp the word/pages file from a terminal window? Wouldn't that work as an effective Save As?


 
Yes you could but you may (almost certainly) want to preserve file attributes, metadata and some files are actually bundles (pages files are one example, applications another) so the copying tool needs to recurse into these and preserve them. Last time I checked one needs a patched rsync to do this without fear of losing anything; perhaps Lion has finally caught up. No other OSX tool (Apple or third party) was as thorough, though the Finder will do the right thing but is nowhere near as flexible, of course.


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 6, 2012)

Any update on the journalist from Wired(?) having his iCloud account hacked, finding his machines wiped and twitter account hijacked by hackers unwittingly assisted by AppleCare? Sounds like a massive balls up.

ETA
found some links
Mat Honan's blog
MacWorld


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Any update on the journalist from Wired(?) having his iCloud account hacked, finding his machines wiped and twitter account hijacked by hackers unwittingly assisted by AppleCare? Sounds like a massive balls up.
> 
> ETA
> found some links
> ...


 
This is bad shit, the biggest worry about all cloud dependency is exactly this of thing happening. It should worry every company offering cloud products as one corrosive story will affect the whole perception of cloud as a way of computing...


----------



## fractionMan (Aug 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is bad shit, the biggest worry about all cloud dependency is exactly this of thing happening. It should worry every company offering cloud products as one corrosive story will affect the whole perception of cloud as a way of computing...


 
Once you start entrusting that level of stuff to remote storage it really needs two factor authentication.

The problem with that of course is the faff, which gets in the way of the 'it's all magic' selling points of sticking stuff in the cloud.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> Once you start entrusting that level of stuff to remote storage it really needs two factor authentication.
> 
> The problem with that of course is the faff, which gets in the way of the 'it's all magic' selling points of sticking stuff in the cloud.


 
Yup, but people need to take responsibility for their data and recognise you have a spectrum of convenience and security and YOU have to chose where you sit on it...


----------



## fractionMan (Aug 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup, but people need to take responsibility for their data and recognise you have a spectrum of convenience and security and YOU have to chose where you sit on it...


 

The problem is that most people are totally unaware of the ramifications of their decisions when it comes to this kind of thing.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 6, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> The problem is that most people are totally unaware of the ramifications of their decisions when it comes to this kind of thing.


And it doesn't matter how careful you are with your password if someone can just social engineer it out of customer support.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

fractionMan said:


> The problem is that most people are totally unaware of the ramifications of their decisions when it comes to this kind of thing.


 
Indeed, mainly because people haven't cottoned on to how important their data is and how it's their responsibility. I tell people all the time to think of their data like they think of their money. That usually produces very quick results in taking it seriously and lots of questions about backing up!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

Is Apple continuing with its strategy to reduce dependence on Google products in iOS by removing the YouTube app in iOS6?









> iOS 6 beta 4 has removed the YouTube application that existed on iOS since the first version in 2007. We’re not entirely sure what to make of this, but this could have to do with Apple trying to break away from dependence on Google services. iOS 6 drops Google Maps in favor of Apple’s own 3D Maps program. We’re looking into this. Of course, this just could be a bug or an error for this beta.​


​


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2012)

I had a go on a MacBook Retina yesterday. It's a fucking gorgeous machine and that screen is lovely for photographers - if I was working more as a photographer I'd be seriously tempted. 

But then I saw the price. Ouch!


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is Apple continuing with its strategy to reduce dependence on Google products in iOS by removing the YouTube app in iOS6?


Maybe they're going to launch an alternative service to the one that everyone uses, like they did with the marvellous Ping?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 6, 2012)

I've seen one being used to edit HD video, was superb.

But yeah, large amounts of ouch at the price.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

editor said:


> Maybe they're going to launch an alternative service to the one that everyone uses, like they did with the marvellous Ping?


 
Doesn't look like it, The Verge confirms this is happening, looks like Apple is going to let Google develop their own app and release it on the App Store:



> Our license to include the YouTube app in iOS has ended, customers can use YouTube in the Safari browser and Google is working on a new YouTube app to be on the App Store.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

editor said:


> I had a go on a MacBook Retina yesterday. It's a fucking gorgeous machine and that screen is lovely for photographers - if I was working more as a photographer I'd be seriously tempted.
> 
> But then I saw the price. Ouch!


 
Yup, had the same reaction I did to the MacBook Air all those years ago: "Wow that's nice, but man pricey.". I expect the Retina thing will be a great deal cheaper and on all Macs within 18 months...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 6, 2012)

I'd actually rather that no company had preferential treatment, having apps built into the OS - which was what Google was getting, with Maps and YouTube. If, say, Vimeo could provide a better mobile viewing experience, why should they have to fight harder to get anywhere? Same goes for Twitter and FB integration, which should not happen on a system level (there should be an API for apps to register with and accept posts via).


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'd actually rather that no company had preferential treatment, having apps built into the OS - which was what Google was getting, with Maps and YouTube.


Except Apple is _all about_ pushing its own proprietary apps and services above its rivals, even when there's superior alternatives. 

YouTube is so successful because it's the best service of them all.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'd actually rather that no company had preferential treatment, having apps built into the OS - which was what Google was getting, with Maps and YouTube. If, say, Vimeo could provide a better mobile viewing experience, why should they have to fight harder to get anywhere? Same goes for Twitter and FB integration, which should not happen on a system level (there should be an API for apps to register with and accept posts via).


 
I just want good apps, not sure I care about the 'preferential' treatment tbh. I rarely used the YT app as it was so wont really miss it, Google maps was useful but it's not hard to do mapping these days with all the alternatives...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 6, 2012)

editor said:


> Except Apple is _all about_ pushing its own proprietary apps and services above its rivals, even when there's superior alternatives.
> 
> YouTube is so successful because it's the best service of them all.


Everybody is all about that. I would dispute that YouTube is at all "best" - it's the most popular, because it was pretty much the first one, and that's fair enough, but its interface is awkward, primitive crap. People use it for video like they used to use Myspace for music.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Everybody is all about that. I would dispute that YouTube is at all "best" - it's the most popular, because it was pretty much the first one, and that's fair enough, but its interface is awkward, primitive crap. People use it for video like they used to use Myspace for music.


What mainstream free video service is better than YouTube? Vimeo certainly ain't.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 6, 2012)

editor said:


> What mainstream free video service is better than YouTube? Vimeo certainly ain't.


I think Vimeo is _way_ better than YouTube. I've tried to do the same things with Vimeo and YouTube and everything was so much slicker with Vimeo. YT has caught up with video quality in the last year or two but the interface for uploaders and managers is still an ordeal.

And I'm not cheerleading for Vimeo either, that was just a name that came up - anyone should be able to set up a system and get equal treatment, without services built into the OS.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2012)

I really don't like Vimeo. It's interface for embedding is really, really clunky.


----------



## paolo (Aug 6, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think Vimeo is _way_ better than YouTube. I've tried to do the same things with Vimeo and YouTube and everything was so much slicker with Vimeo. YT has caught up with video quality in the last year or two but the interface for uploaders and managers is still an ordeal.
> 
> And I'm not cheerleading for Vimeo either, that was just a name that came up - anyone should be able to set up a system and get equal treatment, without services built into the OS.



Aye. Vimeo is much more the choice of professional indy producers.

We need support for both. YouTube for mass market stuff, and Vimeo for the quality end.


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 6, 2012)

editor said:


> I had a go on a MacBook Retina yesterday. It's a fucking gorgeous machine and that screen is lovely for photographers - if I was working more as a photographer I'd be seriously tempted.
> 
> But then I saw the price. Ouch!


As someone with reduced vision the screen has made an incredible difference to the kind of detail I can now see - and Urban75's text looks amazing via Safari.

I was able to secure a significant educational discount, otherwise I'd still be saving my pennies.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Everybody is all about that. I would dispute that YouTube is at all "best" - it's the most popular, because it was pretty much the first one, and that's fair enough, but its interface is awkward, primitive crap. People use it for video like they used to use Myspace for music.


 
It's terrible on the web too since they tried to shoehorn a stupid attempt at social networking in to it...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

Thinking about it if Apple really wanted to be bastards couldn't they just have their Videos app be the default for watching online videos? Perhaps housing YT etc in an in app browser?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 6, 2012)

Oh, and note that Apple was having to pay Google for this, and the licence had expired. Maybe they didn't want to any more. Hey, maybe Google didn't want to any more.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh, and note that Apple was having to pay Google for this, and the licence had expired. Maybe they didn't want to any more. Hey, maybe Google didn't want to any more.


 
Didn't realise Apple was paying Google, seems an odd arrangement really.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Didn't realise Apple was paying Google, seems an odd arrangement really.


Apparently. http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/6/3223775/apple-youtube-ios6


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apparently. http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/6/3223775/apple-youtube-ios6


 
Interesting bit this:



> _Engadget_ has also heard from Apple and learned that while iOS 6 devices will lose the stock YouTube app, iOS 5 devices will not. It seems that either Google's licensing agreement permits it to stay on the older OS, Apple didn't want to go to the trouble to push out a point update that takes away a feature, or some combination of both.


 
Seems a little pointless as iOS normally gets a huge amount of take up for each update (isn't it something like 90%?) it effectively means a few people with iPad 1s or those weirdos still rocking an iPhone 3G will have it while everyone else doesn't notice it's gone.


----------



## mattie (Aug 17, 2012)

May as well post this here.

No idea if it's genuine.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 17, 2012)

mattie said:


> May as well post this here.
> 
> No idea if it's genuine.


Fakey McFake-Fakington
http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/connery.asp


----------



## mattie (Aug 17, 2012)

Bah.

I thought the use of the valediction 'Best' was a bit off, given the contents.


----------



## RaverDrew (Aug 23, 2012)

The Facebook app for iOS has been completely rebuilt, and seems very rapid indeed


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 23, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> The Facebook app for iOS has been completely rebuilt, and seems very rapid indeed


 
Lets hope the do it for Android soon. The thing is a fucking joke, even on wifi.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 23, 2012)

editor said:


> I had a go on a MacBook Retina yesterday. It's a fucking gorgeous machine and that screen is lovely for photographers - if I was working more as a photographer I'd be seriously tempted.
> 
> But then I saw the price. Ouch!


 
Also too many pixels for that relatively puny graphics chip to push around from what I've seen (a bloke at work has one)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 23, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> The Facebook app for iOS has been completely rebuilt, and seems very rapid indeed



About time as that app was the worst I'd had the pain to use...


----------



## RaverDrew (Aug 24, 2012)

The Android one is even shitter


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 24, 2012)

I don't doubt it!


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Aug 26, 2012)

anyone updated to latest version of Mountain Lion yet?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 26, 2012)

Yup. My battery life was fine before so not noticing anything different tbh...


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2012)

Nope. I have confirmed it for real, now. My iMac is one model before the earliest supported one. 10.7 is my limit.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

This guy has created a mini version of an Apple store in his own ffice.





http://davidwu.me/my-apple-store-home-office/


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 3, 2012)

It's interesting to see someone express their passion* - if only my office was so neat and tidy 

*Axe murderers excluded


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

Not sure I care what someone does legally in the privacy of their own homes tbh...


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not sure I care what someone does legally in the privacy of their own homes tbh...


Then don't read the story then.

He posted up these photos for the world to see, and it was deemed interesting enough to have made the news sections on many tech and Apple related sites. I thought it was a fun story. Sorry if it it failed to pique your discerning tastes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> It's interesting to see someone express their passion* - if only my office was so neat and tidy
> 
> *Axe murderers excluded



Heh my office is supremely tidy since I've banned all unneeded paper!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Then don't read the story then.
> 
> He posted up these photos for the world to see, and it was deemed interesting enough to have made the news sections on many tech and Apple related sites. I thought it was a fun story. Sorry if it it failed to pique your discerning tastes.



Failing the Wheaton test again I see Mr Ed?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not sure I care what someone does legally in the privacy of their own homes tbh...


 
I dont really care what most people do illegally in their own home tbf


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Failing the Wheaton test again I see Mr Ed?


I haven't 'failed' anything. I just posted up a topical, Apple related news story in a thread about Apple related news.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

Here's Apple's chance to put their obscene amounts of profit to good use and make up for their disgracefully long history of corporate stinginess:





> Author appeals to Apple to fund cancer hope that could have saved Steve Jobs
> 
> _A British author whose friend is slowly dying of the same cancer that killed Steve Jobs, has appealed to Apple to help fund development of a potential treatment that could have saved the billionaire. _
> 
> ...


----------



## Firky (Sep 3, 2012)

_Any_ charitable act Apple may do is not going to be born out of benevolent reasons but marketing and improving their image.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I dont really care what most people do illegally in their own home tbf



Heh fair enough. Dunno why it's so special that it's considered news that some bloke has kitted his bedroom out like this. There are far stranger things people obsess over!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

firky said:


> _Any_ charitable act Apple may do is not going to be born out of benevolent reasons but marketing and improving their image.



Yep the same for any profit seeking corporation...


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep the same for any profit seeking corporation...


Except no other profit seeking corporation possesses the vast mountains of riches that Apple have, and barely any other profit seeking corporation have contributed so little over so long.

*awaits the usual round of excuses


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

Yeah cos history's never had wealthy corporations before that dont do charity...


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 3, 2012)

iDrugs, anyone?


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah cos history's never had wealthy corporations before that dont do charity...


Oh, that makes it OK then. Jolly good.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

It means nothing new, don't put words in my mouth.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It means nothing new, don't put words in my mouth.


Can you find a company as big that has historically donated so little from, say, the last 20 years?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 3, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh fair enough. Dunno why it's so special that it's considered news that some bloke has kitted his bedroom out like this. There are far stranger things people obsess over!


(((beastiality)))


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 3, 2012)

> “I would wholeheartedly appeal to them to help fund this research. After all, Apple rakes in £2 million every seven minutes.”


An odd way of asking for a donation by going to the press and attacking them over their profit margin - perhaps a more gentle approach might have seen a snippet of the modest £100 million they gave away last year heading the researchers way.

Besides, I thought an overrelance on 'alternative medicine' killed Jobs, so perhaps a donation to fighting ignorance might be better spent.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

sim667 said:


> (((beastiality)))


 
Yeah but you know what Android phone users are like...strange bunch.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2012)

Well seeing as it's now 'news' when someone has a particular set up in their homes check out this headline grabbing hot of the press piece of news!










> This weeks featured Mac setup is the home office of Adam M., the Managing Director of a Canadian property consultancy. Adam works from home when focus is essential, and he’s got the hardware to support it:
> 
> Mac Pro with 2.55GHz Quad Core, 6GB RAM
> Dual 27″ Apple Cinema Displays
> ...


 
That's some red hot news right there!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2012)

That's not really look at the the office, but more look at my toys. 

Also those screens don't look the same size.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> That's not really look at the the office, but more look at my toys.
> 
> Also those screens don't look the same size.


Indeed. Childish point-scoring post is indeed truly pointless.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 3, 2012)

Piers Gibbon said:


> anyone updated to latest version of Mountain Lion yet?


Yes.

It seems to've done moderate upfuck to my mid-2011 iMac. Beginning with the 'wifi loss' problem that seems to be quite widely documented, and proceeding to a series of slightly weirder problems - like newly-opened apps sometimes not appearing in the dock until the whole machine's reset.

It seems to work pretty much seamlessly on my newer 13" MBP. No problems of any sort whatsoever. (No noticeable improvement in battery life either, tbf, but that was pretty stonking to begin with.)


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2012)

editor said:


> Indeed. Childish point-scoring post is indeed truly pointless.


 
Except you keep rising to as well. Can't you stick each other on ignore or something?


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Except you keep rising to as well. Can't you stick each other on ignore or something?


I've asked KE if he would agree to that several times, but he keeps on refusing.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2012)

Oh


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 4, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> Except you keep rising to as well. Can't you stick each other on ignore or something?


You can't ignore a mod, so it'd have to be "or something"


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> That's not really look at the the office, but more look at my toys.
> 
> Also those screens don't look the same size.



Yeah it was sarcasm. We're still allowed to do that on urban right?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> You can't ignore a mod, so it'd have to be "or something"



The Editor growing up and not trolling every thread he doesn't like would be a start. Plenty of people inc me have asked him to stop that and he refuses and tries to blame everyone else but himself. Doesn't leave much choice really.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 4, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> You can't ignore a mod, so it'd have to be "or something"


Yeah.

In the light of the ed's above-posted suggestion, I've just tried again; and *still* can't ignore one.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 4, 2012)

> Dual 27″ Apple Cinema Displays


 
Adam M has totally been ripped off.

Shittest. Screens. Ever.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 4, 2012)

*


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> You're both insufferable, though - IMO - you have the mild advantage of not being *totally* humourless. For this reason mostly, it's the other one that'd go on my ignore list. But you're both bloody insufferable, and equally keen to push responsibility onto each other.


You're not adverse to a bit of trolling and thread-disrupting stirring yourself though, are you?

Perhaps if we all grew up and quit the personal digs and public attacks (see above), the forums would be better for everyone.

I'm happy to give it a go, and would recommend a good start would be KE and me pledging to never directly reference each other again.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 4, 2012)

editor said:


> You're not adverse to a bit of trolling and thread-disrupting stirring yourself though, are you?


If you had half a sense of humour, you'd be pretty bloody aware that it's hardly trolling or thread-disrupting.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> If you had half a sense of humour, you'd be pretty bloody aware that it's hardly trolling or thread-disrupting.


That's a piss weak cop out and you know it. I've got a great sense of humour, thanks, but you can be an annoying twerp on these boards at times.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 4, 2012)

editor said:


> That's a piss weak cop out and you know it.


Bullshit. Let me ignore you. Please.

e2a: on the tech forums only is fine!


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> Bullshit. Let me ignore you. Please.


Use your willpower. It's not hared,  After all, I have to put up with your hypocritical baiting bullshit almost every day.

And please don't post about iPhones again in threads where people have specifically stated that they don't want one.
That's not funny. It's just childish and disrptive, as the subsequent response proved. Well done.

I've offered a way for all of us to try to work to improve these forums. Looks like you think you're above it.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 4, 2012)

editor said:


> I've got a great sense of humour, thanks


Find me one person who *doesn't* think they've got a great sense of humour.

Thinking you've got a good sense of humour is part of the human condition. Everyone thinks they've got one.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 4, 2012)

editor said:


> The use your willpower. After all, I have to put up with your hypocritical bullshit.
> 
> And please don't post about iPhones again in threads where people have specifically stated that they don't want one.
> That's not funny. It's just childish and disrptive, as the subsequent response proved. Well done.


As I think I originally posted, 

You managed to turn a one-line dry comment into an extended show of just how humourless you are. Beginning with *just not getting it* and then reverting to your one 'witticism' - pictures of 'fanboys,' presumably intended as an insult to pretty much anyone who owns anything Apple-related.

You honestly think I wouldn't do something similar if someone devoted half their OP (about 'choosing a phone') to describing just how vehemently they *don't* want a Samsung?

Good grief.

LET ME IGNORE YOU. PLEASE. ON THESE TWO SUBFORUMS, IF NOWHERE ELSE!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 4, 2012)

editor said:


> Use your willpower. It's not hared, After all, I have to put up with your hypocritical baiting bullshit almost every day.


You could ignore me, too!

Imagine how wonderful it'd be!


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> You could ignore me, too!
> 
> Imagine how wonderful it'd be!


You could start by shutting the fuck up with the hypocritical personal attacks. That would certainly help.

So let's put it in writing:
_I, Mrs Quoad and editor, promise not to personally attack each in the tech forums, or to reference each other in any way in threads where the other is not involved._

Signed:
Editor


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2012)

Oh well, I tried. 
Back on to Apple news, this is rather odd:


> *Hackers Leak One Million Apple Device IDs Stolen From… the FBI*
> 
> Hacking group AntiSec claims to have stolen a massive collection of Apple hardware and user data from within the FBI, releasing 1,000,001 of the Unique Device Identifiers into the wild as proof of its breach.
> AntiSec says it secured details of over 12m Apple devices from files contained on an FBI agent’s laptop that was cracked and entered using a Java vulnerability, which raises some rather big questions about exactly why the FBI has been logging and carrying about iOS user details.
> ...


----------



## elbows (Sep 4, 2012)

I wish it were odd, but sadly I expect the daily realities of state monitoring of citizens involves plenty of mobile shenanigans, and the stuff that usually get pondered on openly is just the tip of the iceberg.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 4, 2012)

Why on earth did the FBI have this information??


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2012)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2012)

Heh yeah they've been doing the rounds all week, very funny! Bit surprised it took you this long to post them.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 13, 2012)




----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2012)

It was utter shite, mind.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 13, 2012)

maldwyn said:


>


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2012)

maldwyn said:


>



Never understood why they did Ping, Apple can't do social as any foo kno...


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Never understood why they did Ping, Apple can't do social as any foo kno...


 
They were unable to resist the imagined potential of social networking to drive itunes music sales. But its wishful thinking of marketing types at the best of times, never mind when its done as poorly as Ping was.

I wasnt paying complete attention but it does look like the new iTunes has a refreshed set of mechanisms to try to get you to buy more stuff.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2012)

iTunes 10.7 in software update now.Haven't really played with it but Ping has gone obnov.

Whoops,just a minor update for iOS6 iTunes 11 not till October.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well seeing as it's now 'news' when someone has a particular set up in their homes check out this headline grabbing hot of the press piece of news!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Id put that prick to shame, but I have much better things to do with my spare time.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 17, 2012)

I have nothing against Apple*/PC* users, but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one. (*Delete as appropriate)


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

The latest ML update seems to've fucked messages, mail, and firefox.

Awesome.

e2a: restart, and it's sorted.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

mrs quoad said:


> The latest ML update seems to've fucked messages, mail, and firefox.
> 
> Awesome.



In what way?


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 19, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> In what way?


All of them were freezing / not responding. tbf, I've missed an app off that list, too, but I can't think for the life of me what it was. Think there was a consistent 'net access' theme - messages and mail are hardly miles apart.

Force quit / restarted messages several times (Artichoke's in Paris atm and messaging like a loon) and it wasn't having any of it - hanging, force quit, reopen, hanging - and I didn't bother trying the other apps (no need for emails atm). And it was saying that Firefox was a damaged app / couldn't be opened. Restart seems to've sorted everything, though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2012)

Ah that's a bit crap...might leave updating for a few days then to see if any patches are coming through...


----------



## Winot (Sep 20, 2012)

I had enough problems moving from SL to Lion (mostly settled down now*) that I'm not keen to move to ML. Especially as the new features don't look that exciting. 

*preview and text edit still fucked mind you


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2012)

Winot said:


> I had enough problems moving from SL to Lion (mostly settled down now*) that I'm not keen to move to ML. Especially as the new features don't look that exciting.
> 
> *preview and text edit still fucked mind you


 
I upgraded..... I even took a chance and didnt back up 

Worked perfectly though, even still worked with my £60 dj controller..... all the people with native instruments 400-800 quid controllers havent been able to use them properly since ML without disabling USB 3 support.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2012)

Updated ML with no issue, FB integration working fine...


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2012)

From the Guardian:
*The readers' editor on… claims of excessive coverage of Apple and its products*



> There were 900 references to Apple in the paper and on the website in total; 470 of those were in print. There were 340 references to Android phones, of which 30 were in print.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 5, 2012)

Its the first anniversary of steve jobbs death today..... would he be proud or turning in his grave?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 5, 2012)

Given how much he's still hated I reckon he'd be pretty happy.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 5, 2012)

The company is worth 1.5x what it was a year ago. I'm sure he rests peacefully.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 5, 2012)

I'm sure he's out there somewhere, enjoying himself with jimmy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2012)

Wow so big news from Apple this evening. Scott's going, over Maps? And that retail dude is going also. Looks like Tim Cook is every bit as ruthless as Jobs!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 29, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wow so big news from Apple this evening. Scott's going, over Maps? And that retail dude is going also. Looks like Tim Cook is every bit as ruthless as Jobs!


The retail guy from Dixons? He really didn't fit in. A bizarre hire, I thought.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2012)

That's the one...

Reading this I'd say Ive has just been well positioned to take over as CEO one day...

http://daringfireball.net/2012/10/forstall_out


----------



## elbows (Oct 30, 2012)

Where is the new iTunes they said would be out in October? Not long left before they miss that timescale, but maybe it will come out today or something.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 30, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's the one...
> 
> Reading this I'd say Ive has just been well positioned to take over as CEO one day...
> 
> http://daringfireball.net/2012/10/forstall_out


 
Hope not, designers make terrible CEOs.


----------



## elbows (Oct 30, 2012)

If the reports that Forstall got axed because he refused to sign the Apple Maps apology are true then ha, good riddance.

My opinion is that iOS needed a facelift, ideally in time for iOS 5 but certainly for iOS 6. It didnt happen so for me they have slipped behind somewhat, and need to do something a bit less timid to iOS 7.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 30, 2012)

elbows said:


> If the reports that Forstall got axed because he refused to sign the Apple Maps apology are true then ha, good riddance.
> 
> My opinion is that iOS needed a facelift, ideally in time for iOS 5 but certainly for iOS 6. It didnt happen so for me they have slipped behind somewhat, and need to do something a bit less timid to iOS 7.


 
What needs to change, in your opinion?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2012)

elbows said:


> Where is the new iTunes they said would be out in October? Not long left before they miss that timescale, but maybe it will come out today or something.



Was wondering the same too...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 30, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Wow so big news from Apple this evening. Scott's going, over Maps? And that retail dude is going also. Looks like Tim Cook is every bit as ruthless as Jobs!


 
I came in here to ask just that. Still says coming in October on the Apple web site.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2012)

elbows said:


> If the reports that Forstall got axed because he refused to sign the Apple Maps apology are true then ha, good riddance.
> 
> My opinion is that iOS needed a facelift, ideally in time for iOS 5 but certainly for iOS 6. It didnt happen so for me they have slipped behind somewhat, and need to do something a bit less timid to iOS 7.



According to All Things Digital (which is essentially an Apple PR outfit) he was showing open signs of challenging Tim Cooks. If this is true looks like this was about ending a palace coup...


----------



## elbows (Oct 30, 2012)

Crispy said:


> What needs to change, in your opinion?


 
The home screen, I'm quite happy with everything else apart from the design of a few of their apps, and I love the gestures for switching between apps. But I'm not convinced they will change the home screen next year, they like to keep it simple and its been a long time since they were into widgets (eg OS X Dashboard). However given the tiles of Windows 8 I can still hope that this inspires them to do something.


----------



## elbows (Oct 30, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> According to All Things Digital (which is essentially an Apple PR outfit) he was showing open signs of challenging Tim Cooks. If this is true looks like this was about ending a palace coup...


 
Quite possibly the same story really - challenged Tim Cook by refusing to sign the apology and accept that Maps was that bad.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 30, 2012)

Tim Cook was the only guy who liked him if the rumours are true. So piss him off and you're toast.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 30, 2012)

Quite a good article on it all:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204840504578087192497916304.html


----------



## artyfarty (Oct 30, 2012)

This weeks big Apple news is that work have bought me a Macbook Air and I'm as happy as it's worth getting about a computer. Tis a nice bit of kit tho. Neat feature called airdrop lets you drop files from one Mac to another...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 30, 2012)

artyfarty said:


> Neat feature called airdrop lets you drop files from one Mac to another...


Something that's always been unnecessarily complicated IMO.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2012)

Never used that, have often wondered how well it worked...


----------



## sim667 (Oct 30, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Something that's always been unnecessarily complicated IMO.


 
I never thought it was on the osx's i've used, it was always a case of mount up on hard drive via the AFP protocol using 'go' and the ip address..... Quite often you could just click browse and it'd be there anyway

Windows I found a little more complicated.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 30, 2012)

They need to implement airdrop in iOS though


----------



## Crispy (Oct 30, 2012)

sim667 said:


> it was always a case of mount up on hard drive via the AFP protocol using 'go' and the ip address


 
You just proved my point 

You and I can share stuff on networks no problem, but it's something that most users don't even know they can do, let alone actually set up. My imac and Sparrow's macbook can see each other's drives, but she'd still rather email me documents to transfer them from one machine to the other.


----------



## artyfarty (Oct 30, 2012)

My work desktop Mac's got airdrop my my home Macbook Pro hasnt and it's only 18 months old.
One *really annoying thing* is that they've changed the Magsafe charger connection so you cant use the older ones, we've got three at home of various vintages. A pointless change IMHO


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 30, 2012)

artyfarty said:


> One *really annoying thing* is that they've changed the Magsafe charger connection so you cant use the older ones, we've got three at home of various vintages. A pointless change IMHO


I use this to connect an older magsafe charger to my MBP (retina)


----------



## sim667 (Oct 30, 2012)

Crispy said:


> You just proved my point
> 
> You and I can share stuff on networks no problem, but it's something that most users don't even know they can do, let alone actually set up. My imac and Sparrow's macbook can see each other's drives, but she'd still rather email me documents to transfer them from one machine to the other.


 
Well you could just drag the network drive to the login items


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Quite a good article on it all:
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204840504578087192497916304.html


 
Yup, I'm almost inclined to believe that he was stitched up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2012)

Further insight from a former Apple employee: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/30/apples-reorganization-goes-deeper-than-just-whos-in-charge/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2012)

iTunes 11 delayed:

http://9to5mac.com/2012/10/30/apple-says-itunes-11-has-been-delayed-until-november/


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 30, 2012)

No pressure to get it right, then.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 30, 2012)

None whatsoever!


----------



## peterkro (Oct 31, 2012)

Looks like it's going to be possible to set up a Fusion drive using any SSD and HD (in a MacBook Pro for instance).This will be good if the OS sees just one big drive and moves stuff from one to the other as needed:
http://jollyjinx.tumblr.com

Edit, looked into this a bit more and it seems it works fine.I'll give it a go but not till next week when I'll have access to my backups.
http://www.petralli.net/2012/10/ana...macs-with-an-ssd-and-a-traditional-hard-disk/


----------



## pinkychukkles (Nov 1, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Looks like it's going to be possible to set up a Fusion drive using any SSD and HD (in a MacBook Pro for instance).This will be good if the OS sees just one big drive and moves stuff from one to the other as needed:
> http://jollyjinx.tumblr.com
> 
> Edit, looked into this a bit more and it seems it works fine.I'll give it a go but not till next week when I'll have access to my backups.
> http://www.petralli.net/2012/10/ana...macs-with-an-ssd-and-a-traditional-hard-disk/


 
Thanks for the links - may give this a go when I have the time and the inclination to do a clean install of ML.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 2, 2012)

Mexico fail.


> ... a court in Mexico City has denied an injunction that would have allowed Apple to continue to sell under the iPhone brand because it violates the trademarks of iFone, a Mexican telecommunications company...It’s not actually clear what Apple was thinking this time around – the iFone trademark was filed in Mexico in 2003, a full four years before Apple filed to trademark the iPhone. Despite the rather obvious priority issue, Apple decided to sue iFone in 2009 in an attempt to invalidate the company’s name for being too similar to the iPhone


Phonearena


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Mexico fail.
> 
> Phonearena


And some. They really are a bunch of arrogant fuckers.


----------



## peterkro (Nov 2, 2012)

Another Apple fail the Safari 6.02 update is borked it's been more than 24 hours and they haven't fixed it.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2012)

The iPad Mini queue in NY is present and correct!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2012)

peterkro said:


> Another Apple fail the Safari 6.02 update is borked it's been more than 24 hours and they haven't fixed it.



Oh right I was wondering what the hell was going on with this last night...


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 2, 2012)

Thankfully I left a machine un-updated


----------



## peterkro (Nov 2, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh right I was wondering what the hell was going on with this last night...


I think Apple released it then pulled it straight away.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2012)

peterkro said:


> I think Apple released it then pulled it straight away.



Right, any idea why?


----------



## peterkro (Nov 2, 2012)

Nope,although it's probably related to the present goings on about software being released before it's ready for prime time.

Actual it seems to be a problem with the App store,try this:

http://swcdn.apple.com/content/downloads/53/02/041-8081/2jwp4wjrwygtm4lc608qy4h0 n4a9yyq37g/Safari6.0.2Mountain.pkg

Safari seems snappier *shoots self*.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2012)

Yep just downloaded, must admit it does feel very fast.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 4, 2012)

Surprise, surprise.


> *Apple paid less than 2% corporation tax on its profits outside the US, its filing with US regulators has shown.*


*BBC*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2012)

Think if there's any campaign to make against Apple tax would have greater traction than workers in some far away land. UK Uncut should be all over this like a rash if they know what's good for them.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 6, 2012)

Man, I just put an 240GB SSD and 14GB of RAM into my aging Mac Pro. Jesus wept. Boot time went from 40 secs to 12 - effective boot time (ie when I can actually start using a browser) went from 2 mins to 20 secs. I keep rebooting just for the hell of it. My work computer is shit now.

Wasn't there a thread around here about putting SSDs into Macs? Anyone got a link?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 6, 2012)

How much was your 14 GB of ram?

I've got six in mine, and Im thinking it could probably do with some more.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 6, 2012)

I pay a lot for RAM for this machine as it's fully buffered server blahblah.
I paid about €80 for each 4GB stick (I actually upgraded to 14GB with an extra 8GB). It's only 667Mhz though... (I have a 2007 8-core).


----------



## sim667 (Nov 6, 2012)

i think thats what i paid for mine..... its a 2008 mac pro.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 6, 2012)

When I bought mine in July 2007, Apple wanted €800 for about 4GB .


----------



## sim667 (Nov 6, 2012)

Structaural said:


> When I bought mine in July 2007, Apple wanted €800 for about 4GB .


 
Yeah I remember I couldnt afford any ram in mine beyond the basic what I bought it.

My macbook pro came with quadruple the ram 4 years later


----------



## Structaural (Nov 6, 2012)

I've had 6GB in it for the last five years for a similar reason...


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2012)

Has Apple peaked? This writer thinks so: 



> Why do I think Apple has passed its peak? There are a number of signs. The most visible recent one is the Maps debacle. Replacing Google Maps with an obviously inferior experience shows how much Apple has changed. Apple's success had been all about offering users the best possible experience; suddenly it is willing to give users a clearly worse experience to further its corporate interests - in this case its long-running dispute with Google. We might expect this sort of behaviour from Microsoft, but we don't expect it from Apple.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/nov/07/peak-apple


----------



## pesh (Nov 7, 2012)

yeah, i think so, certainly with phones, i'm sure they're going to keep on shifting a ton of laptops and imacs though.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2012)

Something's certainly changed and it seems that the commercial part of the company has wrested some kind of control over the high-end/perfectionist part. Or maybe they're just panicking a bit in response to fast growing competition?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Has Apple peaked? This writer thinks so:



Maybe with regards to iOS. As far as computers go I use both pc and mac at work, and still wouldn't event contemplate using a windows machine at home.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2012)

Oh, I think they'll still be making magnificent machines for some time yet! I think they've fallen behind the leading pack when it comes to mobiles though.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 7, 2012)

In your opinion, what do they need to do to catch up?


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2012)

Crispy said:


> In your opinion, what do they need to do to catch up?


Experience tells me what happens next with a question like this is usually a frightfully dull experience involving some very persistent posters who swiftly round on my every word, so I'll leave it.

But if you think the iPhone 5 is as up to date as it can get that's fine.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Oh, I think they'll still be making magnificent machines for some time yet! I think they've fallen behind the leading pack when it comes to mobiles though.



I don't think they've fallen behind, but they are treading water. IMHO the interface is still the best on the market.


----------



## pesh (Nov 7, 2012)

i had a long play with an S3 yesterday as i was genuinely interested in it. 

it just seemed to be full of stuff i had no need for, watching video in 1 window while using another app? really? i barely watch video on my phone at all, much less when i'm trying to surf the web on it as well.

i might be tempted if i actually needed a new phone but i didn't like the OS as much as i like iOS, and prefer the build quality / feel of the iphones. so i'd rather stick with a 3 year old phone i'm very happy with and spend the money on something fun.

wake me up when something a bit more revolutionary than widgets or larger screens comes along.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 7, 2012)

I think you probably need to use it day to day to appreciate how much better Android is these days. The gimmicks are one thing. The day to day usability is another thing entirely. iOS is years behind.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 7, 2012)

All they need to do is copy a few features and they'll be bang up to date.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 7, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I think you probably need to use it day to day to appreciate how much better Android is these days. The gimmicks are one thing. The day to day usability is another thing entirely. iOS is years behind.


It's precisely because I don't use a smartphone day to day that I'm interested in what specific things are lacking in iOS.


----------



## elbows (Nov 7, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I think you probably need to use it day to day to appreciate how much better Android is these days. The gimmicks are one thing. The day to day usability is another thing entirely. iOS is years behind.


 
I struggle to take this seriously. Years behind my ass. Its been almost a year since I switched from an iOS phone to an android one. The experience isnt all that different really. Customisation is the main differentiator and thats not exactly something that I associate with what year we are in, just a different approach. Having said that, I freely admit that a lack of widgets is what puts me off returning to the iPhone. I cant think of any other functionality that would really affect my routine use of the device.


----------



## elbows (Nov 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Experience tells me what happens next with a question like this is usually a frightfully dull experience involving some very persistent posters who swiftly round on my every word, so I'll leave it.
> 
> But if you think the iPhone 5 is as up to date as it can get that's fine.


 
Oh come now, seeing as you are still going to post about iOS and android you may as well include some actual detail. Otherwise people will have even more reason to have a dig at you, not less.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2012)

Crispy said:


> It's precisely because I don't use a smartphone day to day that I'm interested in what specific things are lacking in iOS.


Android has better voice recognition, far, far better maps (Apple Maps - LOL!), better keyboard choice (Swiftkey/Swype etc), the incredible Google Now and a far greater choice of handsets, offers far better value (e.g. Nexus 4), comes with a much bigger range of screen sizes and offers SD card support, removable battery support and a more open OS etc etc.

You may or may not find any of the above persuasive or feel that there's any advantage in any of the above features, but I do.


----------



## elbows (Nov 7, 2012)

Cheers. I have no reason to pick at your priorities at all, I simply like to see detail.

I rather like the Live Wallpaper on android, although it has no functional value.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2012)

elbows said:


> Cheers. I have no reason to pick at your priorities at all, I simply like to see detail.
> 
> I rather like the Live Wallpaper on android, although it has no functional value.


Yeah. That too. And widgets. How could I forget widgets! I don't think I could ever use a phone that doesn't have widgets. They're ace.

Oh, and real user customisation too. Veh nice.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 8, 2012)

elbows said:


> I struggle to take this seriously. Years behind my ass. Its been almost a year since I switched from an iOS phone to an android one. The experience isnt all that different really. Customisation is the main differentiator and thats not exactly something that I associate with what year we are in, just a different approach. Having said that, I freely admit that a lack of widgets is what puts me off returning to the iPhone. I cant think of any other functionality that would really affect my routine use of the device.



I suspect this is where I become that which I've resented for years - the smug alternative OS user: "It just works". There are a number of areas that my usage of Android Jellybean plus the Galaxy Note II can be considered years ahead of my usage of an iOS device:

Keyboard - SwiftKey suits me perfectly
Screen-size - 5.5" screen makes everything else feel fiddly and annoying
It tracks my eyes and does/doesn't switch between landscape and portrait - a big usability plus
Screen stays alive if my eyes are on the phone - more useful than I expected it to be
Google Now - no matter where I am, I have detailed info on how to get home, no faffing around with an app
I'm able to natively play any video format
Flash - still useful (although not installed on Jellybean by default)
Widgets - an obvious one, but very important still
Swappable battery and storage - this is useful no matter how you spin it
No need to jailbreak in order to use things like torrent clients and P2P video apps

I'm sure I could think of more.


----------



## elbows (Nov 8, 2012)

I'm not seeking to denigrate any of the features you find useful, its just the 'years ahead' thing that I have issue with. Perhaps a few of those features are futuristic, but many have little to do with what year we are in or what year you think apple are stuck in.

It would not surprise me if Apple have gone past certain peaks, I dont expect anyone to stay ahead of the competition for vast periods of time. I still have a problem with the idea that Apple totally stopped innovating though, because this is partly based on people picking and choosing what features count as important and innovative. I know siri was flawed, but it is still comparable to google now in some ways (How can I get home?) I considered location-based reminders to be innovative when it was announced. I doubt Passbook is extremely useful in this country at the moment, but neither do I think it should be left out of the mix when discussing innovation.

The Galaxy Note II is a very interesting device, I sort of wish I could try one for a month, but am in no position to do so. But its not the sort of product I would have expected from Apple at any stage of their story this century, though I am very glad it caught on more than initial expectations suggested.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2012)

elbows said:


> I'm not seeking to denigrate any of the features you find useful, its just the 'years ahead' thing that I have issue with.


Apple Maps really could be 'years behind' Google Maps.  Least they certainly look that way now.


----------



## gabi (Nov 8, 2012)

The maps thing is the reason im steadfastly refusing to upgrade to iOS6. I hope it doesn't get to the point where I have to go android though. When's Google putting their app out?


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2012)

gabi said:


> The maps thing is the reason im steadfastly refusing to upgrade to iOS6. I hope it doesn't get to the point where I have to go android though. When's Google putting their app out?


I think it's less a case of _when_ Google is putting out their app and more of a case of whether control-freaks Apple will allow Google's superior product to grace their competition-free, walled garden.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 8, 2012)

editor said:


> I think it's less a case of _when_ Google is putting out their app and more of a case of whether control-freaks Apple will allow Google's superior product to grace their competition-free, walled garden.


Cook directed people to Google maps as an alternative when he gave that apology.

There're loads of google apps within the walled garden, they'll have little choice but to allow GMaps in.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Cook directed people to Google maps as an alternative when he gave that apology.


Under pressure, yes, and using a browser to view maps is hardly an ideal or particularly practical alternative.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> There're loads of google apps within the walled garden, they'll have little choice but to allow GMaps in.


I wouldn't hold your breath on that. Took a year for Google Voice to be approved.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 8, 2012)

It really is a pointless argument until Google finish and present their map app.

I'm quite happy with Apples maps in the meantime.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 8, 2012)

elbows said:


> I'm not seeking to denigrate any of the features you find useful, its just the 'years ahead' thing that I have issue with. Perhaps a few of those features are futuristic, but many have little to do with what year we are in or what year you think apple are stuck in.
> 
> It would not surprise me if Apple have gone past certain peaks, I dont expect anyone to stay ahead of the competition for vast periods of time. I still have a problem with the idea that Apple totally stopped innovating though, because this is partly based on people picking and choosing what features count as important and innovative. I know siri was flawed, but it is still comparable to google now in some ways (How can I get home?) I considered location-based reminders to be innovative when it was announced. I doubt Passbook is extremely useful in this country at the moment, but neither do I think it should be left out of the mix when discussing innovation.
> 
> The Galaxy Note II is a very interesting device, I sort of wish I could try one for a month, but am in no position to do so. But its not the sort of product I would have expected from Apple at any stage of their story this century, though I am very glad it caught on more than initial expectations suggested.



Well, how do you define development paths if not in years? Based on the development of the iPhone so far, I see no evidence that Apple are going to emerge from the iOS pattern they've stuck to thus far. Frankly, they don't need to - certain users are going to buy it any way, those who like things to 'just work' the way they have for years (my wife, for example - she's very happy with her iPhone and rightly so), people who buy into the Apple way of thinking, etc. The phone being 'years behind' isn't an issue for them, because it just doesn't matter. Doesn't stop it being years behind alternative technology though.


----------



## elbows (Nov 8, 2012)

Surely you've just answered the question yourself, with talk of all the things Apple dont feel the need to do because of their design ethos, irrespective of what year we are in.

Widgets are hardly a new concept, even if android was the first to make them work well on a mobile device. 

Some aspects of the Galaxy Note are based on rather old mobile/pocket pc technology, albeit a much better implementation.

And I would hesitate to try to describe some of the shortcomings of androids audio stack in terms of being stuck in the past, I'd rather talk about the technical detail of whats wrong.

Sure there are some things that can be judged in terms of year, especially certain hardware spec and the Apple Maps example editor gave. But again I dont really see Apple as being utterly stuck in the past on all fronts, eg it was Apple who upped the ante with pixel density, and tried to tap into modern trends by integrating facebook & twitter at the OS level. And although I did mention it a few times back when it was still true, I dont think I went mad about the lack of ultra-smooth UI animation on Android by suggesting it was stuck in the past.

Let me present the pciture in a different way. Android being used by multiple different hardware manufacturers gives opportunity for more people to try different things. Google have upped their game with android in the last year or so. Apple have not been able to sustain the pace of their initial mini-revolutions in mobile computing usability.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2012)

elbows said:


> But again I dont really see Apple as being utterly stuck in the past on all fronts, eg it was Apple who upped the ante with pixel density, and tried to tap into modern trends by integrating facebook & twitter at the OS level.


Android has let me share/upload content from a wide variety of apps for years. 





> iOS is integrated with Twitter and Facebook, which allows you to share to these social sites from any other app. However, if for example I find an interesting recipe on the web, I would prefer saving it to my EverNote account than tweeting about it. Yes, this can be done on iOS with the help of bookmarklets but Android’s approach is better- it lets apps decide if they want to be part of the “sharing” menu of the device...


----------



## elbows (Nov 8, 2012)

editor said:


> Android has let me share/upload content from a wide variety of apps for years.


 
Whats that got to do with integration into the operating system? The resulting functionality overlaps, but there are some differences for both developers and users in having an OS-wide approach.

In any case Im not trying to say how simply wonderful this is, I'm just saying that Apple have added things to iOS. If loads of people dont think they are significant then fair enough but please accept thats a different issue than whether any progress or innovation is being made at all.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm not suggesting progress hasn't been made, just significantly less progress than Android devices, particularly Samsung devices, have. Hence me sticking to the 'years behind' description.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

elbows said:


> Whats that got to do with integration into the operating system?


It means that, to the consumer, Android offers a far more useful and practical system and has done for some considerable time.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2012)

editor said:


> It means that, to the consumer, Android offers a far more useful and practical system and has done for some considerable time.


 
You're the Mitt Romney of tech.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 9, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm not suggesting progress hasn't been made, just significantly less progress than Android devices, particularly Samsung devices, have. Hence me sticking to the 'years behind' description.


 
Only because until recently they were playing catch up


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2012)

editor said:


> It means that, to the consumer, Android offers a far more useful and practical system and has done for some considerable time.


 
For many users yes, though it depends what services they want to share with. Its the usual story really, flexibility vs simplicity & number of clicks.

But as this is supposed to be about innovation I'd make a slightly different point. Via the 'share intent' which developers use to add their apps to the share menu, android demonstrates its inherent flexibility. In terms of innovation what this actually means is that android doesnt have to do all the innovation itself, it can leave it to 3rd party developers to keep adding stuff like that.

I would hazard a guess that this is one reason why the OS (as opposed to hardware) fragmentation issue isn't anything like as bad as it could have been for users - even if their device doesnt get updated to the latest android quickly, no matter, so long as app developers maintain support for older android versions, which in almost all cases they do.

Anyway I didnt want to turn this into another android v iOS issue, I was mostly just trying to demonstrate that when complaining about lack of apple innovation people are sometimes ignoring an array of 'minor' features, regardless of whether android offers an alternative solution. But I accept that the wording of some of my posts got us into this territory, so my bad.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I suspect this is where I become that which I've resented for years - the smug alternative OS user: "It just works". There are a number of areas that my usage of Android Jellybean plus the Galaxy Note II can be considered years ahead of my usage of an iOS device:
> 
> Keyboard - SwiftKey suits me perfectly
> Screen-size - 5.5" screen makes everything else feel fiddly and annoying
> ...


 


The only innovation in that list is Google Now where they've convinced you to give a large billionaire corporation ALL your personal data.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 9, 2012)

This is a good summary of where apple's UX needs work, and questions whether Ive has the skills to take them on: http://counternotions.com/2012/11/05/sirjony/


----------



## pesh (Nov 9, 2012)

Structaural said:


> The only innovation in that list is Google Now where they've convinced you to give a large billionaire corporation ALL your personal data.


i was wondering about that...

isn't Google Now basically doing the same thing iPhones were discovered to be doing last year, in tracking the owners movements. which i seem to remember everyone saying was 'a very bad thing'

except this is sending off ALL your private data to Google rather than just storing your recent locations on your phone?


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

pesh said:


> isn't Google Now basically doing the same thing iPhones were discovered to be doing last year, in tracking the owners movements. which i seem to remember everyone saying was 'a very bad thing'


It's *up to you* whether you use Google Now or not. You choose which cards are activated. it can be turned off. See the difference?

Oh and it's not sending ALL my data anywhere.


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2012)

Oh thats just reminded me of the iOS 6 feature I actually like - much more detailed app data privacy settings.


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2012)

Crispy said:


> This is a good summary of where apple's UX needs work, and questions whether Ive has the skills to take them on: http://counternotions.com/2012/11/05/sirjony/


 
Very interesting. I'm not convinced Apple will manage to do half of what he mentions there. I dont really like some of the iCloud and 'dont need to remember to save in OS X apps' stuff they've introduced in recent years, its a nice idea but there is something missing. I've lost revisions of images I've been working in on using Pixelmator on OS X because of this sort of thing, clever but dumb.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 9, 2012)

Structaural said:


> The only innovation in that list is Google Now where they've convinced you to give a large billionaire corporation ALL your personal data.



I wasn't claiming they're innovations or firsts. Just that iOS's lack of them is conspicuous.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2012)

ChrisFilter said:


> I wasn't claiming they're innovations or firsts. Just that iOS's lack of them is conspicuous.


 
Well if something is claimed to be 'years ahead' that would imply some sort of innovation rather than something someone else chose not to implement.
But enough pointless spectrum vs commodore bollocks on this thread.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Well if something is claimed to be 'years ahead' that would imply some sort of innovation rather than something someone else chose not to implement.
> But enough pointless spectrum vs commodore bollocks on this thread.


Swiftkey is certainly a _considerably_ more productive offering.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2012)

Samsung could replace its keyboard with all of the letter A and you'd still be on Apple threads bigging it up. Your relentless cheerleading of Samsung and Google on unrelated threads is tedious to say the least.


----------



## gabi (Nov 9, 2012)

Isn't there an Android thread somewhere to talk about Android stuff?


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Samsung could replace its keyboard with all of the letter A and you'd still be on Apple threads bigging it up. Your relentless cheerleading of Samsung and Google on unrelated threads is tedious to say the least.


Swiftkey has nothing to do with Samsung or Google. It's an independent app.
You asked for an example of innovation on the Android platform, and I gave you one, so it seems strange why you're suddenly objecting to getting a direct answer to your question.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Swiftkey has nothing to do with Samsung or Google. It's an independent app.
> You asked for an example of innovation on the Android platform, and I gave you one, so it seems strange why you're suddenly objecting to getting a direct answer to your question.


 
Or Apple

(looks at thread title)


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Or Apple
> 
> (looks at thread title)


Perhaps you might want to look at the recent discussion in this thread too.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Swiftkey has nothing to do with Samsung or Google. It's an independent app.
> You asked for an example of innovation on the Android platform, and I gave you one, so it seems strange why you're suddenly objecting to getting a direct answer to your question.


 
Show me where I asked a question, let alone where I asked about Android.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Show me where I asked a question, let alone where I asked about Android.


You claimed that the only innovation on the Android list was Google Now.
That was incorrect.


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## Structaural (Nov 9, 2012)

editor said:


> You claimed that the only innovation on the Android list was Google Now.
> That was incorrect.


 
No I wasn't. It's purely a matter of opinion. 

Swype was the innovation. And swiftkey isn't part of Android, it may be in the Note II but it ain't part of Android. It wasn't invented by Google or Samsung and they don't own it either.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

Structaural said:


> No I wasn't. It's purely a matter of opinion.


Oh, OK then. It's not an innovation at all because you say so.

PS It's quite different to Swype.


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## Structaural (Nov 9, 2012)

It's not part of the OS, your argument is invalid.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

Structaural said:


> It's not part of the OS, your argument is invalid.


Whatever you say, if it makes you feel better.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

At last! Apple are dipping into their deep deep pockets to help others. Good work and more please, Apple.
Apple Donates $2.5 Million to Hurricane Sandy Relief

To put it in perspective, that works about at about 23 minutes profit for Apple, but anything is a vast improvement on Apple's pitiful philanthropic efforts under that tight cunt Steve Jobs.


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2012)

editor said:


> Whatever you say, if it makes you feel better.


 
Technically he is right though. When talking purely about the innovation from the OS makers, you can, should and frequently do point to the fact that android is open enough to allow these 3rd party apps. Its an important point, no need to stretch it.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2012)

elbows said:


> Technically he is right though. When talking purely about the innovation from the OS makers, you can, should and frequently do point to the fact that android is open enough to allow these 3rd party apps. Its an important point, no need to stretch it.


The Android OS allows these innovations to occur.


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## elbows (Nov 9, 2012)

Thats what I just said! My point was that the innovations themselves within the 3rd party apps are not down to Google, they provided an enabling foundation that others can run with.

Meanwhile here is an example of something I consider to be completely stupid as far as Apple go. For a long time now I've appreciated the ability to swipe on the touchpad of my Mac in order to go back to the previous page in Safari browser. Why the hell cant I do that on the ipad? When I take a step back and think about this more, there are far too many times when I am pressing small buttons on the ipad screen instead of using the gestures Apple initially did so well to promote and do right. Why did this stuff stall and become inconsistent? Shame!


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 9, 2012)

How in the world did Apple end up being named the world's most innovative company three years in a row?!


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## elbows (Nov 9, 2012)

Resting on their original innovations, lazy journalists and industry sycophants, and at times lacklustre competiton.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 9, 2012)

elbows said:


> Resting on their original innovations, lazy journalists and industry sycophants, and at times lacklustre competiton.


 
Yep. Fuck loads of cash doesn't mean your innovative, just means that you're selling products that consumers are willing to buy.


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## sim667 (Nov 11, 2012)

We should just all learn that there is literally no point discussing anything to do with apple on u75. It's like watching a dog that has an infinite amount of energy chasing its tail


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 11, 2012)

*Apple and HTC call off hostilities*

Guardian


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 12, 2012)

Samsung increase the price of Apple's processors by 20%
AndriodAuthority


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Samsung increase the price of Apple's processors by 20%
> AndriodAuthority


Well, that's the rumour.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Samsung increase the price of Apple's processors by 20%
> AndriodAuthority


 
Yup, taking back their billion dollar fine one shitty business deal at a time.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 12, 2012)

Rumour has it they're grabbing what they can before the divorce


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> Rumour has it they're grabbing what they can before the divorce


 
Heh makes sense, no doubt. Although the divorce is between Google and Apple. Samsung is just their bastard son.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2012)

Say hello to Blue Sky.


> Apple  CEO Tim Cook is taking a page out of the Google playbook and is granting select employees two-week breaks to work on outside and independent projects, according to _The Wall Street Journal_. The initiative, known as “Blue Sky,” is aimed at boosting employee morale and keeping workers loyal to Apple.
> Google and other Silicon Valley companies have employed similar programs that allow employees to spend a certain amount of their time working on side projects, which in the past have resulted in GMail and other popular Google services. _The Wall Street Journal_ notes that Apple’s program is a “far cry” compared to others, however, especially with the number of employees participating in it. Blue Sky, which is believed to have been started earlier this year, is another example of Cook’s influence at Apple and its transition into a traditional tech company.
> 
> http://bgr.com/2012/11/12/apple-employees-granted-free-time/


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## maldwyn (Nov 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Say hello to Blue Sky.


I was surprised to discover the initiative has been around since at least 1948 with 3M's 15 percent programme and the subsequent invention of the post-it note.

fastcodesign


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## Kanda (Nov 13, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> I was surprised to discover the initiative has been around since at least 1948 with 3M's 15 percent programme and the subsequent invention of the post-it note.
> 
> fastcodesign


 
Yeah, people seem to forget most things have been done before Apple and Google arrived...


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Yeah, people seem to forget most things have been done before Apple and Google arrived...


 
Crazy aint it, almost as if there was this whole history thing going on before people had holy wars over which phone they bought...


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## editor (Nov 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Yeah, people seem to forget most things have been done before Apple and Google arrived...


Even rounded corners.


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## Kanda (Nov 13, 2012)

editor said:


> Even rounded corners.



Yup. I'm agog that people give that much of a shit to all the bollocks. They just give them publicity....  Go do something productive instead... Or sleep or something. Not worth our breath


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## editor (Nov 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Yup. I'm agog that people give that much of a shit to all the bollocks.


We should do seeing as we all end up paying for the legal crap in the end.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Yup. I'm agog that people give that much of a shit to all the bollocks. They just give them publicity.... Go do something productive instead... Or sleep or something. Not worth our breath


 
Well said. The detractors are as bad as the so called fanbois. Two sides of the same coin feeding the media machine over inane stuff...


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2012)




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## elbows (Nov 13, 2012)

editor said:


> We should do seeing as we all end up paying for the legal crap in the end.


 
Not necessarily. Would Apple price their stuff any cheaper if they didnt spend some of their income on legal fees? Plus money does have a habit of circulating, not all of it is skimmed off. What do IP lawyers spend their money on?


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2012)

elbows said:


> Not necessarily. Would Apple price their stuff any cheaper if they didnt spend some of their income on legal fees? Plus money does have a habit of circulating, not all of it is skimmed off. What do IP lawyers spend their money on?


Not sure that I'm following your logic here. If tech companies have to spend millions endlessly battling claims and counter-claims, who do you think is paying all those huge costs?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 14, 2012)

Patent wars are parasitic. Google and apple spend more on lawsuits than they do on R&D. That cost is passed on to consumers. The patent system is broken in this regard.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Patent wars are parasitic. Google and apple spend more on lawsuits than they do on R&D. That cost is passed on to consumers. The patent system is broken in this regard.


It would be interesting to see those costs broken down and see how they've changed over the last five years, per tech company.

This article casts a suspicious eye over the claim that Google and Apple spend more on lawsuits than they do on R&D: http://www.technovia.co.uk/2012/10/...nts-than-rd-yes-but-its-not-all-it-seems.html



> So yes, Google and Apple did spend more on patents in 2011 than R&D. But that’s very likely to be a one-off, simply because 2011 was an unusual year which saw several highly-desirable patent portfolios come on the market. What the NYT didn’t say is that Apple also increased its R&D spending in 2011 by 33%, and that Google’s R&D spending continues to trend upwards massively, with the company spending a whopping 12% of all its revenue in R&D last year.


 



http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/r_and_d_expense


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## paolo (Nov 14, 2012)

Last numbers I heard quoted, about a week ago on 'This Week In Tech', had Apple spend (including cap-ex) dwarfing everyone, including Intel. The commentators could only speculate what the spend was on - fab plants to make ARM chips? Data centres?

Who knows. But sounds like there's some *very* big numbers out there.

But hey, whether that justifies any of the patent trolling or tax shit these companies get to is arguable.


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## elbows (Nov 14, 2012)

Look I dont like the patent system, but I am standing by my point.

Why should I believe that they would spend more on R&D if they spent less on legal stuff? Would they not be more likely to spend it on marketing or take it as profit and give it to their shareholders? Or use it for acquisitions that may kill off some promising companies tech in the process?

In the case of Apple I would certainly not expect them to reduce the retail price of their products. The argument can certainly be made that customers are robbed of choice due to restricted competition stemming from IP laws, but I dont believe this automatically translates directly to higher prices for consumers. Actually I think some stuff (not Apple stuff) is disgustingly cheap as it is, causing excessive consumption and waste, and less money for lowly workers in factories etc. I was horrified when CDROM drives, keyboard etc started to tend towards the £10 price point back in the day.

Perhaps I only have the luxury of being able to consider this point because if I'm thinking about how the world of IT should be it would go way beyond IP law, and into the realms of worker-owned companies, open source hardware as well as software, etc?


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## elbows (Nov 14, 2012)

One of my biggest problems with IP law is that it raises the barrier to entry for smaller companies that may be put off from going into certain sectors because of the potential legal hassles. However I suppose I need to be careful with this point because otherwise it could be mutated into an evil cousin of the hideous 'red tape' argument that swine use to argue against regulation etc.


----------



## elbows (Nov 14, 2012)

Also do people argue that us noble consumers are paying less when corporations dodge tax, or that we would pay more if they didn't? And that if this were the case it would be morally problematic?


----------



## elbows (Nov 14, 2012)

And my final point for this evening is the one thats often used to justify IP law in the first place. That companies would be less inclined to invest so much in R&D and innovation if there was nothing to stop cheap-skate competitors from simply nicking all the ideas straight away without having to do any of the clever design themselves. This point is probably overused and stretched beyond reason, but we cant ignore it completely.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> And my final point for this evening is the one thats often used to justify IP law in the first place. That companies would be less inclined to invest so much in R&D and innovation if there was nothing to stop cheap-skate competitors from simply nicking all the ideas straight away without having to do any of the clever design themselves. This point is probably overused and stretched beyond reason, but we cant ignore it completely.


Innovation seemed to speed along just fine for years before we entered this current uber-uber-litigious period, no?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 14, 2012)

Once again, in case anyone missed it the first time round, I can't recommend enough "Everything is a Remix" http://www.everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/


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## editor (Nov 14, 2012)

There's some doubts being raised about the future of AppleCare in Europe:


> Apple has yanked AppleCare from Italian shelves following regulatory action, leading to questions about the future of its extended warranty care in the rest of the EU.
> 
> Earlier this year, Italy's competition watchdog issued Apple with a €900,000 fine for not making it clear to customers that they were entitled by EU law to a two-year warranty on products while trying to sell its own AppleCare coverage. The regulator also ordered Apple to change how it advertised the extended coverage.
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Nov 14, 2012)

editor said:


> Innovation seemed to speed along just fine for years before we entered this current uber-uber-litigious period, no?


 
No, there is no way I could make that claim in that manner, for a number of reasons.

Firstly the smartphone sector was pretty stagnant in terms of innovation for many years. There were a few companies doing interesting things occasionally, but it was a fairly small niche that didnt attract that much attention beyond the world of business. That obviously changed in the last 5 years, first with smartphones but it really heated up when it came to the brand new tablet market, and its not very often that we get to see a new class of devices emerge before our eyes with lucrative results for the companies involved and competing. We have seen a massive change to which corporations dominate the smartphone market, Apple and Samsung growing quickly and having a hot new rivalry that neither has approached with great care and class.

There is also a large world of IP rights that has been busily humming along in the background for a very long time without attracting much attention. Specifically, companies licensing technology to each other and paying royalty fees. If people want to complain that IP issues are costing the saintly consumer, then they shouldnt have ignored this stuff in favour of only shouting about the ugliest of court battles.

But having made all these points, I should state that I've only been talking about this stuff from the angle you introduced, thats its unfairly cost the consumer in some significant and new way. If I look at the broader story then obviously there is one other huge factor that made the courts hum the way they have been in recent years.

Apple and Steve Jobs had very grandiose ideas about how much of the modern multitouch capacitive intuitive mobile device & OS thang they invented, and should have the right to dominate, control and profit from. And once this was applied to tablets as well as smartphones, it blew up into the huge legal battles that we have seen in recent years. I can understand why, from a capitalist business perspective (not to mention ego) they took the approach they did, but I am not actually seeking to defend it. And from a consumer point of view these issues became highly visible both because of the amount of time journalists dedicate to talking about Apple, and because Apple went for a number of injunctions to block sales of certain competing devices, and its not hard to see why consumers would have something to say about that. If I wanted to make a song and dance about the horrors of these battles, thats the avenue I would go down, not the idea that consumers are paying more for their devices as a result.

In terms of the final reality resulting from all of this, its not what Jobs would have liked in his wildest dreams, the system was not so broken that consumers were completely robbed of smartphone and tablet choice. Instead what we have is a situation that could have been achieved without so much fanfare and ugliness, that a variety of small hardware & software design features that were particular to Apple, cannot be copied in their entirety by its competitors.


----------



## elbows (Nov 14, 2012)

And in regard to my first point about pace of innovation prior to the iphone, if you dont agree with that they fine, let me put it another way. Think not about innovation, but disruption. There is little doubt that iOS disrupted the scene in a big way, and ushered in a new era for mobile devices large and small, brand new battles that happened to be fought in a number of ugly ways. The way Apple tried to fight was brutal enough to demand attention, but its unfair to do that without acknowledging what lazy ripoff merchants the likes of Samsung had a rep for being. I do not recall you conceding this point even slightly in the past so I dont expect you to do so now, but never mind, I wont spend any more time banging my head against that wall.


----------



## Winot (Nov 14, 2012)

elbows said:


> There is also a large world of IP rights that has been busily humming along in the background for a very long time without attracting much attention. Specifically, companies licensing technology to each other and paying royalty fees. If people want to complain that IP issues are costing the saintly consumer, then they shouldnt have ignored this stuff in favour of only shouting about the ugliest of court battles.


 
Exactly.  For understanble reasons, these boards focus on the smartphone wars, but in IP terms they are a recent aberration.



elbows said:


> In terms of the final reality resulting from all of this, its not what Jobs would have liked in his wildest dreams, the system was not so broken that consumers were completely robbed of smartphone and tablet choice. Instead what we have is a situation that could have been achieved without so much fanfare and ugliness, that a variety of small hardware & software design features that were particular to Apple, cannot be copied in their entirety by its competitors.


 
Another good point.  In Europe at least, the IP system has come out with pretty sensible decisions.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2012)

Winot said:


> Another good point. In Europe at least, the IP system has come out with pretty sensible decisions.


The European courts have been excellent recently concerning Apple's bullying antics.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 14, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Once again, in case anyone missed it the first time round, I can't recommend enough "Everything is a Remix" http://www.everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/


 
Good suggestion.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2012)

I anticipate a wall of silence from Apple over this or a quiet reinstatement with no apology.


> An activist group has organized an online petition to press Apple to stop blocking Drones+, a strike location app.
> 
> Apple had earlier described the app as "objectionable" and "not in compliance with the app store review guidelines." Apple's rules restrict what apps cannot contain in order to be published on its proprietary App Store."
> 
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Nov 15, 2012)

editor said:


> The European courts have been excellent recently concerning Apple's bullying antics.


 
Good article in the FT today about Samsungs bullying tactics in Korea. How they won't let their suppliers supply anything to Apple or LG and the stranglehold they have on the suppliers over there.

Samsung also now worlds biggest technology company by revenue ($149b last year, 13% of Korea's GDP )


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 15, 2012)

> A top Samsung executive said that the South Korean electronics giant had no plans to follow Taiwanese firm HTC in seeking a settlement over its patent disputes with arch-rival Apple.


AllThingsD


----------



## Structaural (Nov 15, 2012)

http://atnc.asia/wp/2012/05/the-55th-death-from-samsung/


----------



## sim667 (Nov 15, 2012)

Structaural said:


> http://atnc.asia/wp/2012/05/the-55th-death-from-samsung/


 
Im sure samsung are responsible for deaths in a lot higher number than 55 workers.......


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 16, 2012)

Structaural said:


> http://atnc.asia/wp/2012/05/the-55th-death-from-samsung/


 
Jesus that's grim...


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 21, 2012)




----------



## maldwyn (Nov 21, 2012)

Double post


----------



## electroplated (Nov 21, 2012)

spot on!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 21, 2012)

Haha brilliant!


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> <pearoast>


Already posted _weeks ago!_


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 22, 2012)

editor said:


> Already posted _weeks ago!_


First time I'd seen it was yesterday - see how dated a fanboi can be.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Nov 22, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Good article in the FT today about Samsungs bullying tactics in Korea. How they won't let their suppliers supply anything to Apple or LG and the stranglehold they have on the suppliers over there.
> 
> Samsung also now worlds biggest technology company by revenue ($149b last year, 13% of Korea's GDP )


That is a bit hypocritical seeing that Samsung itself supplies the A6 chip that is in the current iPhone.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4229790/Samsung-ramping-Apple-A6-chips


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 22, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> First time I'd seen it was yesterday - see how dated a fanboi can be.


 
Who cares how old it is if it's funny?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 22, 2012)

Interesting to hear from some teacher friends about how the iPad has changed teaching kids, far more interactive, far high attention rates and also more autonomous learning where the kids can actually teach themselves without guidance. Amazingly, no iPads have been broken and not one stolen and getting iPad 2 for £220 a pop is proving very good for their budgets too.


----------



## jannerboyuk (Nov 24, 2012)

maldwyn said:


>



Lol


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 29, 2012)

iTune's 11 has been released - anyone brave enough to be an early adopter?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 29, 2012)

Yup. Just installed. All working perfectly fine. Seems a bit faster than before, quite like the nav, simpler, easy to use. It'll do.


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 29, 2012)

Grrrr it refuses to recognise my 3GS 

On the 4th re-install now


----------



## peterkro (Nov 29, 2012)

Definitely faster,like the layout,more than I expected.

Edit/ I've been using for a few hours now whilst pissed,I love it, the usual doubting Thomas's are crying about features left out but it's a big improvement for me.(64bit Cocao FTW)


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 30, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> iTune's 11 has been released - anyone brave enough to be an early adopter?




I don't use it for anything on my lappy, tbh. So might's well!


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 30, 2012)

Why the fuck do they STILL not include a "watch folder" option ??? It's so backwards to have to manually add any new music I've downloaded into my music folder.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 30, 2012)

OMG I HAVE TO DRAG FILES TO A WINDOW

There's something in the ECHR about it I think.


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 30, 2012)

It's a simple basic feature which pretty much every other media player worth it's salt has.

It's a total waste of time having to search through a folder full of thousands of files to see which ones I've downloaded recently and need to added to the library, is it really that difficult to have a feature which just watches the folder and automatically adds new files ?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 30, 2012)

I mean seriously. Set up a folder action if it's that much of a bother.


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 30, 2012)

A folder action


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 30, 2012)

I just googled, you expect me to start scripting folders to replace a basic feature missing from iTunes


----------



## editor (Nov 30, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> A folder action


They sound _sexy!_


----------



## sim667 (Nov 30, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Interesting to hear from some teacher friends about how the iPad has changed teaching kids, far more interactive, far high attention rates and also more autonomous learning where the kids can actually teach themselves without guidance. Amazingly, no iPads have been broken and not one stolen and getting iPad 2 for £220 a pop is proving very good for their budgets too.


 
I would like 2 or 3 ipads for our classes....... I think they'd be really good for when they're doing bookwork.

Obviously that would mean having a wifi network, and our IT department absolutely refuse to let us have wifi.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 30, 2012)

Installed it and works perfectly. Love the new interface


----------



## pinkychukkles (Nov 30, 2012)

Had a couple of problems with my first sync to my iphone but closed and re-opened iTunes and all was subsequently ok.


RaverDrew said:


> A folder action





editor said:


> They sound _sexy!_


Folders full of music OR Mitt Romney's "binders full of women" - sex it up!


----------



## elbows (Nov 30, 2012)

There are a couple of aspects of the new iTunes I dont like, at least not so far, but the album mode where font colours are based on the colours used in the album artwork is a lovely thing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> Installed it and works perfectly. Love the new interface


 
Makes a lot of sense doesn't it?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I would like 2 or 3 ipads for our classes....... I think they'd be really good for when they're doing bookwork.
> 
> Obviously that would mean having a wifi network, *and our IT department absolutely refuse to let us have wifi*.


 
Regressive.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 1, 2012)

elbows said:


> There are a couple of aspects of the new iTunes I dont like, at least not so far, but the album mode where font colours are based on the colours used in the album artwork is a lovely thing.


 
Yes, that looks excellent.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 1, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Makes a lot of sense doesn't it?


 
Yep, and the amount of things you can do from the mini player view is impressive.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2012)

mwgdrwg said:


> Yep, and the amount of things you can do from the mini player view is impressive.


 
Indeed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2012)

Good round up of features and ways of doing things in iTunes 11 here.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 2, 2012)

Wow. I never knew that Apple spent so little on marketing compared to other companies (interesting that the charge for their success is that's all just marketing):


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 2, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Good round up of features and ways of doing things in iTunes 11 here.


 
Lot's of useful shortcuts. Window's users, the 'Command' key is Ctrl, the 'Option' key is Shift.


----------



## Kanda (Dec 6, 2012)

Apple shifting some production back to the US: http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/06/tim-cook-us-built-macs/


----------



## Crispy (Dec 6, 2012)

It'll be "assembly" rather than "production" though really won't it?


----------



## TitanSound (Dec 6, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Regressive.


 
Even though I am in the IT Dept for my office, I'm not allowed to have WiFi outside of the office. It's deemed a "security" risk. When I work from home I have to connect to the router via an Ethernet cable. Massive pain in the arse. I was always under the impression that remote working was supposed to be flexible


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 6, 2012)

Interesting move along the lines of employing 2,700  to assemble a few Mac Pros in Cork.

I know their motives for the Brazil plants is to avoid massive import duties.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2012)

Kanda said:


> Apple shifting some production back to the US: http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/06/tim-cook-us-built-macs/


 
Curious move, wonder if it's about generating positive pr or if they're looking at the gravity of economies globally and betting that wages will fall in the US while they increase in Asia etc?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2012)

TitanSound said:


> Even though I am in the IT Dept for my office, I'm not allowed to have WiFi outside of the office. It's deemed a "security" risk. When I work from home I have to connect to the router via an Ethernet cable. Massive pain in the arse. I was always under the impression that remote working was supposed to be flexible


 
It's idiotic. You could easily walk out with tons of data or fuck something up while there...


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Why the fuck do they STILL not include a "watch folder" option ??? It's so backwards to have to manually add any new music I've downloaded into my music folder.


 
Mine automatically imports and plays when I download a song


----------



## Structaural (Dec 7, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> Why the fuck do they STILL not include a "watch folder" option ??? It's so backwards to have to manually add any new music I've downloaded into my music folder.


 
I have a folder called 'Automatically Add to iTunes' in my Music - iTunes Media folder. Does exactly this. Not sure if they've kept it in version 11.


----------



## editor (Dec 7, 2012)

Crispy said:


> It'll be "assembly" rather than "production" though really won't it?


It's been described as a publicity stunt.



> Apple has announced plans to move some of its manufacturing to the US, but has immediately come under fire for what critics call a "publicity stunt".
> 
> Apple yesterday told NBC News that one of its existing lines of Macs would be exclusively made in the US, reversing the current trend of using cheaper labour in China and other countries.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 7, 2012)

Had an interesting meeting with Google today, the guy had just started there and told me they get offered the choice of a Chromebook or a brand new 15" Macbook Pro with retina screen. Guess which one the majority of people choose?


----------



## editor (Dec 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Had an interesting meeting with Google today, the guy had just started there and told me they get offered the choice of a Chromebook or a brand new 15" Macbook Pro with retina screen. Guess which one the majority of people choose?


The one that costs nearly ten times as much?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 7, 2012)

Is it some sort of test to see whether you have been properly assimilated into the Fandroid Collective?


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 7, 2012)

sim667 said:


> Mine automatically imports and plays when I download a song



When bought from the apple store ?



Structaural said:


> I have a folder called 'Automatically Add to iTunes' in my Music - iTunes Media folder. Does exactly this. Not sure if they've kept it in version 11.


 
That only works if you let iTunes organise your music, quite frankly, fuck that !!!


----------



## sim667 (Dec 7, 2012)

RaverDrew said:


> When bought from the apple store ?


 
Well, that, and when I download off a website


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 7, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Is it some sort of test to see whether you have been properly assimilated into the Fandroid Collective?


 
No idea, apparently the Chromebook isn't liked by employers, the MacBook Pro is heavily locked down with security features however but it's something real work can be done on.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No idea, apparently the Chromebook isn't liked by employers, the MacBook Pro is heavily locked down with security features however but it's something real work can be done on.


Also one is a massive frigging high-def top-end powerhouse and the other is a consumer googlebook.

"Hey welcome to Google, do you want a Chromebook or this latest Macbook Pro?"
"Oh wow I love Google so much I'll pick the Chromebook!"
"Yeaaahhhh... sorry, maybe you're not the person we really wanted to hire, you dumbass."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 7, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Also one is a massive frigging high-def top-end powerhouse and the other is a consumer googlebook.
> 
> "Hey welcome to Google, do you want a Chromebook or this latest Macbook Pro?"
> "Oh wow I love Google so much I'll pick the Chromebook!"
> "Yeaaahhhh... sorry, maybe you're not the person we really wanted to hire, you dumbass."


 
Nah it was more like 'which one do you want, we don't mind'. Interesting insight though into the company, confirmed something I've often thought that these are just companies pursuing their interests, not people having a bitch fight. The fact that Google would give, for free, a very expensive product made by a competitor says a lot about the reality of these corporations that your average keyboard warrior fanboy doesn't understand.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 7, 2012)

Tim Cook interview, interesting bloke, very different to Jobs.



> Television is an area of intense interest.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Had an interesting meeting with Google today, the guy had just started there and told me they get offered the choice of a Chromebook or a brand new 15" Macbook Pro with retina screen. Guess which one the majority of people choose?


 
I think it's a some sort of tests to show you're not a complete asking licking yes man. If you do choose a cheap ass net book just because it has your companies software you have no back bone and have no future in tech.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Dec 7, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Had an interesting meeting with Google today, the guy had just started there and told me they get offered the choice of a Chromebook or a brand new 15" Macbook Pro with retina screen. Guess which one the majority of people choose?


 
I'm working with a bunch of IBM developers at the moment and most of them have bought their own retina Macbooks, rather than struggle on with the 4 year old Thinkpads that IBM issues them with to please the analysts who determine the value of executive stock options by looking at how low the running costs for their staff are.

This is something I struggle to fathom, if your company is so shit it won't buy you a decent computer, go freelance ffs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2012)

Global Stoner said:


> I think it's a some sort of tests to show you're not a complete asking licking yes man. If you do choose a cheap ass net book just because it has your companies software you have no back bone and have no future in tech.


 
I really doubt that. Google aren't interested in that kind of crap from what I've seen.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2012)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I'm working with a bunch of IBM developers at the moment and most of them have bought their own retina Macbooks, rather than struggle on with the 4 year old Thinkpads that IBM issues them with to please the analysts who determine the value of executive stock options by looking at how low the running costs for their staff are.
> 
> This is something I struggle to fathom, if your company is so shit it won't buy you a decent computer, go freelance ffs.


 
That's certainly one way of looking at it!


----------



## maldwyn (Dec 19, 2012)

All I want for Christmas is a Steve mini.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2012)

Is it some sort of sex doll for fanboys?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> All I want for Christmas is a Steve mini.


 
I'd sah 'Awwwww' if that thing wasn't so creepy. You can almost imagine it coming to life at night, booting up your windows machine and removing the ability to Save As...


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2012)

Samsung have announced a $3.9bn chip production line in the USA, so at least Apple will be able to claim that more of their iPhone/iPad is being made in the US!  
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/20/samsung-3-9-billion-chip-production-line-expansion-texas/


----------



## Structaural (Dec 20, 2012)

Apple are up to something too: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/18...edicated-to-building-processors-for-idevices/


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 20, 2012)

Rumour is that my girlfriend has got me a 27 inch apple screen for Christmas. Although this is a rumour started by me just now in the vain hope it is true.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 20, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Rumour is that my girlfriend has got me a 27 inch apple screen for Christmas. Although this is a rumour started by me just now in the vain hope it is true.


I heard it was a pair of 27" Thunderbolt displays, so your desk looks balanced.


----------



## tarannau (Dec 20, 2012)

Don't be daft, she's getting those two displays for me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2012)

Structaural said:


> Apple are up to something too: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/18...edicated-to-building-processors-for-idevices/


 
Yup, Apple seem to be moving some manufacturing around at the moment. Be interesting to see the reasoning behind it if any of it is in the states.


----------



## editor (Dec 21, 2012)

*Apple’s Being a Massive Dick, Again*



> Surprise! Apple’s being a massive dick again. It’s crushed a really great, universal charging idea, which was gaining serious steam on Kickstarter, because it won’t allow the Lightning adapter to be used in a device with multiple charging options. Thanks Apple, some of us still have _older_ Apple devices you know, oh, and the odd microUSB-charged thing too. Sometimes, you’re a right nob.
> 
> According to Apple’s licencing requirements for the Lightning adapter, that yes, was a big step up from the ancient 30-pin dock connector, you can’t even bundle the Lightning connector with something that can also charge via the old 30-pin. Now that’s just goddamn arse-backwards. Why in hell would Apple block something that can charge all of its own devices? I mean, not everyone’s upgraded to an iPhone 5 — hell, some people bought an iPad 3 thinking it would last at least a year before you made it obsolete, Apple.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 21, 2012)

Kickstarter project in "We didn't do any research into licensing something before we started asking for money for it" shocker....


----------



## editor (Dec 21, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> Kickstarter project in "We didn't do any research into licensing something before we started asking for money for it" shocker....


Would any other mobile manufacturer block this?


----------



## gabi (Dec 21, 2012)

editor said:


> *Apple’s Being a Massive Dick, Again*


 
Wow. Balanced journalism there. The Sun would be proud of such an objective headline.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 21, 2012)

editor said:


> Would any other mobile manufacturer block this?


No idea, not really relevant. 
If you're going to use something in your product and you know it has a license agreement attached, you should read it before you commit to producing it.

Apple are notoriously protective of their MagSafe and Lightning connectors with good reason. Having poor quality 3rd party adapters can cause incidents which damage their brand ("OMG my iPhone caught fire!"). A company that hasn't checked out the license doesn't strike me as a good company to be making such a device. Unless they decided to risk getting away with it, in which case they're definitely not a good company to be making such a device.


----------



## editor (Dec 21, 2012)

Lazy Llama said:


> No idea, not really relevant.
> If you're going to use something in your product and you know it has a license agreement attached, you should read it before you commit to producing it.


They tried hard to get an answer from Apple. Why didn't they say no from the start?


> “We didn’t get a yes or a no up front,” Siminoff said. “But as we kept going back and forth it was clear that it was getting harder. Then, when we saw that they weren’t even going to allow a Lightning connector and a 30-pin connector together, we knew it was over.”


http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/20/a...ower-project-pop-refunding-139170-to-backers/


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 21, 2012)

> After applying to Apple (which is now required for Lightning), we learned that they are no longer willing to approve a product that uses the Lightning charger alongside any other charger (including their own 30-pin – seriously).


By "are no longer" he means "never has been".

This whole things smells.

He's cancelling the Kickstarter project for a device that was announced before the LIghtning connector, did not originally include the Lightning connector, but which will work with a Lightning connector plugged into the planned USB port on the device, because Apple won't license the connector to him.

He's getting a load of PR, he's trying to pressure Kickstarter into refunding their fees even though it's plainly not their fault that he's cancelling the project, and also announcing a new crowdfunding site that he's going to own.

BS much?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 21, 2012)

gabi said:


> Wow. Balanced journalism there. The Sun would be proud of such an objective headline.


 
Objective reporting in relation to Apple? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You've got more chance of fandroids of urban not trolling the shit out of tech threads...


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2012)

Apple seem a very confused bunch these days. They've now changed their minds, so the the Kickstarter project can now go ahead. 

http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...ing-following-kickstarter-dock-furore-1121048


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2012)

In other news, Steve Jobs' exceptionally ugly yacht has been impounded.
http://bgr.com/2012/12/22/steve-jobs-yacht-impounded-262874/


----------



## Callum91 (Dec 23, 2012)

Has anyone seen the new Apple advert that shows off the iPhone 5's panorama function? Set your phasers to cringe, it's the worst advert I've seen this year. Fuck know's who gave it the green light. ''Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese!''. Fuck off!


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 26, 2012)

Anyone got the 12 days app? Day 1 today.
Oh it's an ep by maroon 5. I'd rather shit in my own pants on a date than get that.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 27, 2012)

And today it's a sportsball game. Tomorrow is a cliff Richard jumper.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 27, 2012)

editor said:


> In other news, Steve Jobs' exceptionally ugly yacht has been impounded.
> http://bgr.com/2012/12/22/steve-jobs-yacht-impounded-262874/


 
You'll be pleased to know it's free to roam the oceans again. 









> The iconic French designer worked with his friend Jobs on the design of the 70m motor yacht, which is controlled via seven 27-inch iMac systems and has an angular design with floor-to-ceiling windows built into the hull. Jobs was still working out the final details of the fixtures and fittings with Starck and Jon Ive at the time of his death.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> And today it's a sportsball game. Tomorrow is a cliff Richard jumper.


 
The football game was actually quite fun, almost addictive. Not interested in the first one or the ep of the new Sherlock Holmes tbh...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 28, 2012)

You got an ep of sherlock holmes? 
So far is Maroon 5 shite, sportsball game and today was a geography games which I downloaded but will most likely delete later. It keeps telling me I am wrong when all i have is fat fingers, not no skills.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> You got an ep of sherlock holmes?
> So far is Maroon 5 shite, sportsball game and today was a geography games which I downloaded but will most likely delete later. It keeps telling me I am wrong when all i have is fat fingers, not no skills.


 
Yeah today's one was ep 1 s1 of Sherlock Holmes...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 28, 2012)

I got geomaster 2.


----------



## elbows (Dec 28, 2012)

Are you outside of the UK? Geomaster seems to be the gift for day 3 in some other countries where the 12 days app works, such as Italy and New Zealand.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> I got geomaster 2.


 
Odd. Not heard anything about there being different ones for different people...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 29, 2012)

In denmark


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 29, 2012)

Today is the new avengers. Book.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> In denmark


 
Ah well that would explain it...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 29, 2012)

What. We are not the same?


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 29, 2012)

It's just seems a bit wierd that they would bother changing it for region.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2012)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> What. We are not the same?


 
I'm UK, makes sense they'd have different ones for different regions tbh, different rights etc.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 29, 2012)

I know that the union fees can be a block on this sometimes. For example the musicians union demands a minimum wage is paid to its members. Foreign acts who come and play here therefore have to become members. Which often means some grumpy old men do not now include it in their itinerary. Paul weller once had a bad time here, billy Bragg avoided the question ( when I asked him) and bob geldof. Well. To be fare, he did only sell 12 tickets for the last concert he tried playing here. Poor Bob.


----------



## peterkro (Jan 1, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Looks like it's going to be possible to set up a Fusion drive using any SSD and HD (in a MacBook Pro for instance).This will be good if the OS sees just one big drive and moves stuff from one to the other as needed:
> http://jollyjinx.tumblr.com
> 
> Edit, looked into this a bit more and it seems it works fine.I'll give it a go but not till next week when I'll have access to my backups.
> http://www.petralli.net/2012/10/ana...macs-with-an-ssd-and-a-traditional-hard-disk/


Well it's a few months later and I finally got round to doing this.Works great I now have 550Gb's of storage and all the commonly used stuff is on the SSD it's completely seamless to user.If anyone tries it rather than follow the original hackers instructions (he assumes every one is an expert at diskutil ) follow this guy on youtube very straight forward:



The only drawback I can see is if a drive dies (almost certainly the HD and not the SSD) you'll lose data on both drives but that's what backing up is for.I've quite a large SSD but for cheap and fast a small 64Gb SSD coupled with a large mechanical harddrive would be hard to beat.


----------



## editor (Jan 3, 2013)

More Apple legal bollocks fails to make an impression in the courts:


> A United States district court has dismissed Apple's claim that Amazon's Appstore for Android is false advertising. Apple argued that Amazon's use of the word "Appstore" implied that it was in some way affiliated with the Cupertino-based company's product, but the court clearly does not agree. In the ruling, the court agreed with Amazon that "the mere use of 'Appstore'... cannot be construed as a representation that the nature, characteristics, or quality of the Amazon Appstore is thesame as that of the Apple App Store." Additionally, the courts found Apple failed to show that Amazon deceived users of the Appstore for Android.


Naturally, they're not giving up: http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/2/38...not-false-advertising-in-apple-trademark-case


----------



## maldwyn (Jan 3, 2013)

Will they buy Waze?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Well it's a few months later and I finally got round to doing this.Works great I now have 550Gb's of storage and all the commonly used stuff is on the SSD it's completely seamless to user.If anyone tries it rather than follow the original hackers instructions (he assumes every one is an expert at diskutil ) follow this guy on youtube very straight forward:
> 
> 
> 
> The only drawback I can see is if a drive dies (almost certainly the HD and not the SSD) you'll lose data on both drives but that's what backing up is for.I've quite a large SSD but for cheap and fast a small 64Gb SSD coupled with a large mechanical harddrive would be hard to beat.




Pretty neat although not sure I can be bothered at this point, my MBP is three years old in June, I may just sell it and buy a new machine...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 7, 2013)

mine is coming up for a year. gonna buy some apple care in month 11. Register it. And when it comes up to the end of that, gonna microwave the fucker. Get a new one innit.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 7, 2013)

There was a bit of a discussion on the last thread about ipads in schools around this time last year and I wondered if any opinions had changed. I remember chilango saying his school was looking at options for tablets - what happened with that?

Anyway, on the BBC today, there's a story about a Bolton school where every kid is given an ipad.The school has said it has cut costs, including reducing the school's £80,000 photocopying bill to just £15,000 a year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20930195

But then there's this story too, about a school who did the same thing - and over half of the ipads are now broken  

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-giving-pupils-iPads-admits-HALF-broken.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2013)

I wonder what percentage of iPads used in schools get damaged? I've let my 3 year old nephew play with mine and I've literally never seen a child take so much care over a piece of technology. He's utterly absorbed in it, holding it very carefully and trying out games...


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> But then there's this story too, about a school who did the same thing - and over half of the ipads are now broken
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-giving-pupils-iPads-admits-HALF-broken.html


These figures don't surprise me at all.


> But after just one year, more than four in ten of the iPads had been sent off for repair, after being knocked, dropped or scratched. Figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act reveal 489 had to be replaced after being found to be beyond repair.
> 
> About a fifth of those sent for repair – 112 – had to be sent back more than once.
> 
> Pupils said in some of the younger classes, around half the class had broken their tablet at least once, and some as many as three times.





> Apple, the manufacturer of iPads, is said to be aggressively targeting the school market and at the time headteachers were accused of ‘falling for a gimmick’.


Products designed for the education market should really be of a more rugged persuasion.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2013)

There's more about the costs of using iPads in schools here:



> Or take Zeeland High School in Michigan, which had deployed 1,800 iPads the prior year:
> 
> While staff predicted 10 to 15 percent of the iPads would need repairs, approximately 15 to 25 percent of the tablet computers were damaged...Austin Bollinger was a graduate who was unhappy with a $140 bill. He thought the district should have invested in a more durable device such as the Samsung Galaxy Tab and had a more reasonable fee structure.​​
> Bollinger, who started an online petition to get rid of the iPads at the school, said the district didn’t have a good educational plan in place for utilizing the iPads.
> http://www.zdnet.com/four-reasons-why-school-tablet-rollouts-can-stumble-or-fail-7000003582/


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2013)

Theyd be perfect for us at work, and we've got small enough classes to stop them getting damaged so much.

It would be so good for them to be able to do their research on one at the table.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 7, 2013)

Equipment gets damaged at schools, that's what happens, whatever it is. The question is whether the cost of the damage outweighs the benefits of having the equipment in the first place.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 7, 2013)

My kid has a Tosh laptop from school, he is not very delicate with it. It went back to Tosh at one point for a repair (I forget what for) and once (recently) back to the school tech dept. He has it at home as well, it is well used. I donate £20.00 a month for it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Theyd be perfect for us at work, and we've got small enough classes to stop them getting damaged so much.
> 
> It would be so good for them to be able to do their research on one at the table.


 
I heard there are these things called cases you can get, meant to be pretty useful for protecting iPads...


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Equipment gets damaged at schools, that's what happens, whatever it is. The question is whether the cost of the damage outweighs the benefits of having the equipment in the first place.


And also whether the equipment chosen is appropriate for the task and offers the best long-term value. Clearly there's some question about whether iPads are the most suitable tools for the job. 

Some may consider that cheaper, less trendy devices may be better suited. e.g.


> Why Schools Are Turning to Google Chromebooks
> Today, the district owns about 4,300 Chromebooks. All ninth- through 12th-grade students at CBCSD's two high schools received Chromebooks for the current school year. Students in the other 16 schools also have access to the devices, which are kept on mobile carts. Fringer says the district will expand the one-to-one program to students in grades six through eight during the 2013–2014 school year and to third- through fifth-grade students the following year.
> 
> Despite thousands of units traveling home each day, the district isn't terribly concerned about loss. If a Chromebook is stolen, for example, "we can quickly — and completely — disable the unit with the management console," Fringer explains.
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I heard there are these things called cases you can get, meant to be pretty useful for protecting iPads...


An otterbox would do it


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 7, 2013)

editor said:


> And also whether the equipment chosen is appropriate for the task and offers the best long-term value. Clearly there's some question about whether iPads are the most suitable tools for the job.
> 
> Some may consider that cheaper, less trendy devices may be better suited. e.g.


 
$249 is well good for the Samsung Chromebook. (not to mention $199 for the Acer) I imagine a school buying in bulk would get some favourable discount too.

That said, it looks like tablets are being lauded as textbook replacements - with that in mind, do laptops cut it? I'd probably prefer to read an ebook on a tablet, or preferably on an actual book which I can put those colourful note markers in and chuck in my bag without worrying about theft/moisture/breakage. The most I ever had to worry about getting nicked/damaged at school was my walkman. Simple times.


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## editor (Jan 7, 2013)

sim667 said:


> An otterbox would do it


But that would add another extra cost on top of what is already an expensive item.


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## editor (Jan 7, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> $249 is well good for the Samsung Chromebook. (not to mention $199 for the Acer) I imagine a school buying in bulk would get some favourable discount too.


It was being offered for $99 last month.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2013)

sim667 said:


> An otterbox would do it


 
Perhaps, there are plenty of cheap cases that are fairly decent that wouldn't add to the cost. Besides like FM said schools have these issues all the time, if the iPad is increasing educational attainment then there's no issue which upkeep.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> $249 is well good for the Samsung Chromebook. (not to mention $199 for the Acer) I imagine a school buying in bulk would get some favourable discount too.
> 
> That said, it looks like tablets are being lauded as textbook replacements - with that in mind, do laptops cut it? I'd probably prefer to read an ebook on a tablet, or preferably on an actual book which I can put those colourful note markers in and chuck in my bag without worrying about theft/moisture/breakage. The most I ever had to worry about getting nicked/damaged at school was my walkman. Simple times.


 
The last thing I'd want any child to learn on would be a Chromebook. It's barely better than a netbook at this point!


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 7, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The last thing I'd want any child to learn on would be a Chromebook. It's barely better than a netbook at this point!


 
Which begs the question... what are the schools actually using them for? Reading stuff? Writing essays? At school, the most useful thing I learned on computers was Word and Excel which I've used extensively in every place I've worked. Do they got those for Chrome OS? I don't really know how the alternatives compare. For anything involving computing though surely you'd need windows or osx (or linux?) device, no?


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## mrs quoad (Jan 8, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Which begs the question... what are the schools actually using them for? Reading stuff? Writing essays? At school, the most useful thing I learned on computers was Word and Excel which I've used extensively in every place I've worked. Do they got those for Chrome OS? I don't really know how the alternatives compare. For anything involving computing though surely you'd need windows or osx (or linux?) device, no?


I learnt on Ability Plus. Then Wordstar 

We only had Paint on the Apple Macintoshes at school  Paint and Business Manager Simulator, IIRC 

e2a: and a BBC Basic (model B, IIRC) in a separate room that had an elementary speech simulator. And absolutely fuck all else


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

I reckon Chromebooks are excellent, cost-effective tools for education and give kids' access to a ton of resources and services. Seeing as they come with a proper keyboard, SD card slot and USB ports built in they're arguably far more versatile than iPads and - crucially - much, much cheaper.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> I reckon Chromebooks are excellent, cost-effective tools for education and give kids' access to a ton of resources and services. Seeing as they come with a proper keyboard, SD card slot and USB ports built in they're arguably far more versatile than iPads and - crucially - much, much cheaper.


 
I'm not sure we should be using machines with such a closed OS and little future for education.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I'm not sure we should be using machines with such a closed OS and little future for education.


They're web based. How can that be 'closed'?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 8, 2013)

It's only web based which is a bit limiting.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> It's only web based which is a bit limiting.


What mainstream education-based tasks do you think it's unable to do, bearing in mind its pricing?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 8, 2013)

Use proper software. They're cheap, but not that much cheaper then a proper computer.


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## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

I do not think the perfect tablet for schools exists yet. But I do think the tablet form has advantages over laptops, although not for every possible classroom use, 'proper' computers still have a use.

Battery life matters rather a lot in this context. Not 'hiding behind a screen' matters. Weight matters. Price matters to a certain extent but I'd rather have people invest in the right tools than go for a cheap option that has distinct limitations. I find it impossible to get excited about Chromebooks in this context, meh.


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## Crispy (Jan 8, 2013)

I'd like to hear teachers' opinions, seeing as they're the ones putting these things to use (tablets, laptops all)


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

elbows said:


> I do not think the perfect tablet for schools exists yet. But I do think the tablet form has advantages over laptops, although not for every possible classroom use, 'proper' computers still have a use.


I'd wouldn't fancy trying to learn coding on a tablet. Or writing anything over a paragraph long.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

Crispy said:


> I'd like to hear teachers' opinions, seeing as they're the ones putting these things to use (tablets, laptops all)


The principal of a Chicago school and some of their students have written about their Chromebook experiences here: 
http://dangerouslyirrelevant.org/2012/09/why-11-why-chromebooks.html


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## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

Although I'm not a teacher and am out of date, I did see a lot of older IT use by my parents who were teachers. And what a shabby state of affairs it was. Too many shit companies providing their wares to this sector in the past: overpriced, underspecified, under supported, decisions made at too high a level (eg county).

Things can only get better really, thanks to the move to solid state storage for a start, and teachers who were afraid of IT retiring.

The real key is not which brand of tablet to go for, but the training, support, content & overall ecosystem. Done right there is fantastic potential, but it requires the disrupting of some old ways of doing business in the education sector. Give it time, and certain schools experimenting and establishing best practice.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2013)

I think part of the problem is that it's hard for us oldies to grasp just how integrated computers are in kids lives now - back in our day we had "computing" lessons, now to most kids using a computer is as natural as picking up a pen. Hell, I'd argue that in 10 years or less from now most kids will look at a pen and wonder what the fuck it is. The computer isn't something specific to be taught, it's just a tool for learning with.

As such, whatever tablets are available to classrooms need to reflect what is the latest and most advanced available, running whatever software is the most inspiring and likely to build skills they'll need in later life. Right now, that's the iPad.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A such, whatever tablets are available to classrooms need to reflect what is the latest and most advanced available, running whatever software is the most inspiring and likely to build skills they'll need in later life. Right now, that's the iPad.


Wow, you have been assimilated. What unique abilities does the iPad - and it's tightly closed proprietary ecosystem and far more expensive hardware- offer to 11 and 12 year olds and why do you think it makes a cost effective solution, given school budgets and poor parents?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Wow, you have been assimilated. What unique abilities does the iPad - and it's tightly closed proprietary ecosystem and far more expensive hardware- offer to 11 and 12 year olds and why do you think it makes a cost effective solution, given school budgets and poor parents?


Give a kid a chromebook and they'll shrug their shoulders. Give them and iPad and they'll say "wow". That's the difference.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Give a kid a chromebook and they'll shrug their shoulders. Give them and iPad and they'll say "wow". That's the difference.


That's your opinion but it seems that the opinions of many teachers is rather different. Besides, the precious school budget shouldn't be spent trying to impress kids but providing them with the best, most cost effective gear for learning and offering something that both the school and the parents can afford.

You did read the posts above about the high breakage rate of iPads, yes?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> the precious school budget shouldn't be spent trying to impress kids but providing them with the best, most cost effective gear for learning


No, they should provide kids with equipment that will inspire them to learn. What message does giving tech savvy kids cheap equipment give?

As for breakage, kids will break stuff, end of. In my day it was stuffing chewing gum into floppy drives, nothing has changed. I'm not arguing that an iPad is the cheapest option, just that it's the best.


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## RaverDrew (Jan 8, 2013)

I would have thought that a tightly closed proprietary ecosystem is far more suitable for schools, for many many reasons.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, they should provide kids with equipment that will inspire them to learn. What message does giving tech savvy kids cheap equipment give?


 Suggesting that kids can't/won't learn unless they have the best, most expensive, most 'inspirational' gear is a ridiculous argument.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> I would have thought that a tightly closed proprietary ecosystem is far more suitable for schools, for many many reasons.


Really? Be sure to elaborate on these benefits, bearing in mind that the schools already operate firewalls and web filters. What tightly closed proprietary ecosystem do you suggest?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Suggesting that kids can't/won't learn unless they have the best, most expensive, most 'inspirational' gear is a ridiculous argument.


Indeed. Which is why I didn't make it.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Indeed. Which is why I didn't make it.


Sorry, what is your point then because that's how it looked to me.


beesonthewhatnow said:


> Give a kid a chromebook and they'll shrug their shoulders. Give them and iPad and they'll say "wow". That's the difference.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Really? Be sure to elaborate on these benefits, bearing in mind that the schools already operate firewalls and web filters. What tightly closed proprietary ecosystem do you suggest?


When I was working in schools IT support years back the main point of the network and software design was to lock down the machines as tightly as possible. If you'd offered me the iPad model back then I'd have bitten your arm off for it.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> When I was working in schools IT support years back the main point of the network and software design was to lock down the machines as tightly as possible.


Which is one of the benefits of the Chromebook.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Sorry, what is your point then because that's how it looked to me.


If you can't see the difference in giving kids kit that will make them eager to use it, or kit that they will use but not give a fuck about then I don't know what else to say.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If you can't see the difference in giving kids kit that will make them eager to use it, or kit that they will use but not give a fuck about then I don't know what else to say.


Not sure why you seem so convinced that you can speak for Da Kidz here, but there's plenty of real world testimony from teachers and students that seem to run contrary to your emphatic claims, and the rising sales of Chromebooks in education would also seem to back that up.


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## RaverDrew (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Really? Be sure to elaborate on these benefits, bearing in mind that the schools already operate firewalls and web filters. What tightly closed proprietary ecosystem do you suggest?


 
security
non-fragmentation
familiarity
uniformity
consistency

I'd say these are all pretty important in an educational environment.

Having every school running different variations would just cause a mess imo.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

RaverDrew said:


> security
> non-fragmentation
> familiarity
> uniformity
> ...


And that's why Chromebooks are so ideal and offer such fantastic value.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 8, 2013)

For a platform that has yet to see any serious uptake, it seems a bit cruel to give them to schools, when nobody else uses them and there is every probability that in a few years it won't be available.


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## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

Value will stem from effective learning, content & ecosystems. This will be as much about teachers, writers etc putting in the effort as what hardware platforms are used, and it will be a long road.

The cost of the hardware is not totally irrelevant, but to harp on about that at the expense of a bigger picture involving content cost issues and all the other costs associated with education is shortsighted and demonstrates a marked inability to separate the debate about IT in education from the tired old arguments about platforms, the horrors of Apple, etc.

Apples model for content, and rebuying it each year, is hardly the best solution. Its main advantage is in encouraging existing publishing businesses to move to the new platform and retain their revenues. My politics means I'd rather something very different, but its hard to imagine it happening under the current economic order, by Apple or anyone else, including those who have an advertising-based revenue model. In any case schools will likely continue to find ways to skirt round this to a certain extent by preparing their own material, which is why I was harping on about ecosystems earlier in a way that was not simply supposed to lead us straight back to dull arguments about app store quality.


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## sim667 (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> And that's why Chromebooks are so ideal and offer such fantastic value.


 
Except they are still a laptop, with a trackpad, they dont offer the touchscreen, which brings more of an interactive feel to it, especially multi touch. Also battery life tends to be pretty naff on laptops and they need turning off to be put away where as tablets are designed to be on all the time.


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 8, 2013)

Am I the only person who has no desire to do touchscreen on a laptop. Having to reach for the screen to do shit all the time seems like a backward step when we've got pointing devices and keyboards an that. Never mind greasy fingerprints on the screen.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Except they are still a laptop, with a trackpad, they dont offer the touchscreen, which brings more of an interactive feel to it, especially multi touch. Also battery life tends to be pretty naff on laptops and they need turning off to be put away where as tablets are designed to be on all the time.


Battery life is 8.5 hours on the Samsung Chromebook and I'd say any advantages of a touchscreen are seriously outweighed by the lack of a proper keyboard, USB ports or SD card slot. And then there's the issue of breakages against the added protection that the laptop format gives. Then there's the critical issue of price, with the Chromebook being* substantially* cheaper than an iPad.


----------



## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> For a platform that has yet to see any serious uptake, it seems a bit cruel to give them to schools, when nobody else uses them and there is every probability that in a few years it won't be available.


Eh? back in June 2012, over 500 School Districts in the U.S. and Europe were already using them, and recent models look set to have accelerated that uptake.


> The third generation's price proved a watershed for some reviewers. New York Times technology columnist David Pogue reversed his earlier thumbs-down verdict on the Chromebook, writing that "$250 changes everything." The price is half that of an "iPad, even less than an iPad Mini or an iPod Touch. And you’re getting a laptop." He wrote that the Chromebook does many of the things people use computers and laptops for: playing flash videos, watching Netflix streaming movies, and opening Microsoft Office documents. "In other words, Google is correct when it asserts that the Chromebook is perfect for schools, second computers in homes and businesses who deploy hundreds of machines.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> It's only web based which is a bit limiting.


 
Just a little and teaches kids nothing about how the future of computing will work either as a result. Terrible device, real waste of money with almost zero educational value.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, they should provide kids with equipment that will inspire them to learn. What message does giving tech savvy kids cheap equipment give?
> 
> As for breakage, kids will break stuff, end of. In my day it was stuffing chewing gum into floppy drives, nothing has changed. I'm not arguing that an iPad is the cheapest option, just that it's the best.


 
Yup. The breaking line is just a red herring. Price isn't really a factor when balanced against experience. Hell there's the iPad mini now too which isn't much more than those shitty Chromebooks...the iPad has a far higher educational attainment potential than it.


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## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Battery life is 8.5 hours on the Samsung Chromebook


 
How come the sites I look at say 6.5 hours and Samsungs own spec seems to say 6.3 hours?



> And then there's the issue of breakages against the added protection that the laptop format gives.


 
I'd be more tempted to recommend a tablet with good case than anything with hinges when it comes to kids. The laptop form is tried and tested in education, it works but it has its weaknesses and tablets certainly have strengths which are yet to be fully exploited. 



> Then there's the critical issue of price, with the Chromebook being* substantially* cheaper than an iPad.


 
None of the options we are talking about are in an utterly different realm of price that completely spoils the dream. And hidden costs, including the cost of content & infrastructure are important too. Simply looking at the cost per unit is not the way to give the next generation the education opportunities they deserve. In a sensible world where this was sorted Apple would not be the sort of premum company that should be the natural choice for this sort of thing. But in the experimental years where people grapple with this form factor and the possibilities I'm not surprised they are, for now.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

elbows said:


> How come the sites I look at say 6.5 hours and Samsungs own spec seems to say 6.3 hours?


I got it from here:


http://www.chromebookspecs.com/

I'd say the high iPad return figures quoted earlier are worth noting.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2013)

Anyway, enough of yet another boring Google derail on an Apple thread. Anyone got any actual news about Apple that's worth discussing?


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## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm pretty sure the 8.5 hour claim relates to the original Samsung model from 2011 with the unattractive price.


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## sim667 (Jan 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Battery life is 8.5 hours on the Samsung Chromebook and I'd say any advantages of a touchscreen are seriously outweighed by the lack of a proper keyboard, USB ports or SD card slot. And then there's the issue of breakages against the added protection that the laptop format gives. Then there's the critical issue of price, with the Chromebook being* substantially* cheaper than an iPad.


 
Ive have nothing but bad times trying to use laptops with students. As soon as one brings their ipad in the whole class sit around fapping over it


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Ive have nothing but bad times trying to use laptops with students. As soon as one brings their ipad in the whole class sit around fapping over it


Happily for the non-Apple world (and the budgets of cash-strapped schools), your experience appears to not be a universal one among teachers and students:


> Carlene Unangst, English and language arts teacher, loves the opportunities Chromebooks give her to connect with her students. Students can read the hard copy of a book and also can use a computer copy that can read text to them and highlight the text as it is read to help with multi-modality instruction.
> 
> Student Malik Holmes said he enjoyed the interaction where slides pop up and students interact with content on a screen rather than reading static words on the pages of a book.
> 
> ...


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## elbows (Jan 8, 2013)

How inspiring, not.

I know you cant leave your tired old Apple rant textbook alone for 5 minutes, but I dont know why you've dumped the tablet genre as a whole when it comes to education, especially given the existence of hybrids. An excessive focus on budget I presume. Thanks fuck you dont make these decisions, a real paucity of vision. If I ever go into education I'll credit you as my inspiration.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2013)

elbows said:


> How inspiring, not.
> 
> I know you cant leave your tired old Apple rant textbook alone for 5 minutes, but I dont know why you've dumped the tablet genre as a whole when it comes to education, especially given the existence of hybrids. An excessive focus on budget I presume.


You appear to be responding to a completely different set of points. Oh well.


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## Kanda (Jan 9, 2013)

Here we go again....


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 9, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Here we go again....


 
Yeah another yawn fest...


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## editor (Jan 9, 2013)

<rises above it>


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 9, 2013)

Back to my question...

What are the schools actually using tablets/laptops for? Reading stuff? Writing essays on Word? Bit of spreadsheets or presentations? I'd much rather be writing essays on a laptop with a proper keyboard. I also find it much more comfortable to have the screen positioned as such. I know you can get accesories for the ipad to do this too, but it seems like yet more expense for the sake of typing.

My main concern however with the Chromebook is the lack of MS Office. I know there are Chrome OS alternatives and Google Docs, but the vast majority of the working world use MS Office, which when I was at secondary school (at the dawn of Windows 95), was by far the most useful thing I learned on computers.

As a purely web based device for browsing/researching, the Chromebooks look fine.


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## sim667 (Jan 9, 2013)

editor said:


> Happily for the non-Apple world (and the budgets of cash-strapped schools), your experience appears to not be a universal one among teachers and students:


 
Yeah but they clearly have a good networked infrastructure........

And with a non windows or mac os x OS our IT dept would never agree to chromebooks........ Also with googles history of collecting data we'd have to really look at what information they're storying under the safeguarding rules we have to abide by.

Its hard enough getting our it to support windows, let alone osx and certainly not throwing chrome into it


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## elbows (Jan 9, 2013)

editor said:


> <rises above it>


 


skyscraper101 said:


> Back to my question...
> 
> What are the schools actually using tablets/laptops for? Reading stuff? Writing essays on Word? Bit of spreadsheets or presentations? I'd much rather be writing essays on a laptop with a proper keyboard. I also find it much more comfortable to have the screen positioned as such. I know you can get accesories for the ipad to do this too, but it seems like yet more expense for the sake of typing..


 
From what I can tell its mostly for replacing books, worksheets that would have been photocopied, multiple choice quizzes, other tests that dont involve too much writing, that sort of thing. Sprinkle a modern equivalent of the sorts of subject-specific apps that would once have been knocked up in BBC basic, some multimedia fun using photos, video, audio, and the ability to email the teacher about homework questions and that might be the scope of things so far at the sort of academy the BBC featured.

So I'm not suggesting that tablets used in this way have necessarily come of age for higher levels of education, nor that they replace the laptop when it comes to writing essays, although things could evolve further in that direction over time. My mum worked in primary education and the concept keyboard was an example of a tool that had potential that was never fully realised, and where touchscreen tablets offer a modern take that could go so much further. It seems some schools have used ipod touches for younger kids, and all sorts of possibilities in-between probably exist.

Like I said before, I consider this to still be an experimental stage, not without pitfalls, but tablets have been around long enough now that some establishments need to try, and not be put off by all the advantages that traditional laptops have long offered for certain specific tasks.


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## editor (Jan 9, 2013)

A cheap, rugged Asus Transformer-esque laptop/tablet device coming with a proper keyboard, USB and SD card slots would be perfect for education IMO.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 9, 2013)

If tablets get deployed in schools, I wonder it we will see apps to make it easy to create interactive worksheets and the like?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 9, 2013)

editor said:


> A cheap, rugged Asus Transformer-esque laptop/tablet device coming with a proper keyboard, USB and SD card slots would be perfect for education IMO.


 
Depends on the school? Most kids will have a PC at home and for those who can't afford one, then the school should be able to help make arrangements. However for distributing content and handing back in at the end of the lesson, very cheap and simple tablets could have a place. 

I wonder how long till we classes of children working in note books, copying the question from a tablet?


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## elbows (Jan 9, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> If tablets get deployed in schools, I wonder it we will see apps to make it easy to create interactive worksheets and the like?


 
I wouldnt be surprised if such apps already exist. The challenge is getting teachers to get the best out of them. And thats not just to do with IT skills. Some still struggle to know how to liven up static text content with images, photos, etc in the best way, and interactivity is an extra layer that may not come naturally. There are great examples of interactive apps but I assume these so far only cover a very narrow set of topics, and there are cost issues when using stuff from educational publishers.


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## editor (Jan 9, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Depends on the school? Most kids will have a PC at home and for those who can't afford one, then the school should be able to help make arrangements. However for distributing content and handing back in at the end of the lesson, very cheap and simple tablets could have a place.
> 
> I wonder how long till we classes of children working in note books, copying the question from a tablet?


 Typing anything more than a paragraph on a tablet is an unpleasant experience so I've no idea why anyone would want to inflict that on kids.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 9, 2013)

editor said:


> Typing anything more than a paragraph on a tablet is an unpleasant experience so I've no idea why anyone would want to inflict that on kids.


 
That was kind of my point. They won't as they won't replace machines with keyboards, but supplement them.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 9, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Depends on the school? Most kids will have a PC at home and for those who can't afford one, then the school should be able to help make arrangements. However for distributing content and handing back in at the end of the lesson, very cheap and simple tablets could have a place.
> 
> I wonder how long till we classes of children working in note books, copying the question from a tablet?


 
Not long really, things like using iPads in the class room is the future of education...


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## sim667 (Jan 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Typing anything more than a paragraph on a tablet is an unpleasant experience so I've no idea why anyone would want to inflict that on kids.


 
Haha, trying to get kids to write a paragraph generally is an unpleasant experience.


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## editor (Jan 10, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Haha, trying to get kids to write a paragraph generally is an unpleasant experience.


Sure is tough being a kid.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 10, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Haha, trying to get kids to write a paragraph generally is an unpleasant experience.


 
Heh very true the little shits.


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## sim667 (Jan 11, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20930195

College in bolton has given all students an ipad....


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## elbows (Jan 11, 2013)

sim667 said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20930195
> 
> College in bolton has given all students an ipad....


 
Its a school, and that story was discussed on this thread and is partly what got us into this debate about education in the first place.

Having previously gone on about the potential in a positive way, I will now change tack and have a moan about academy propaganda & close corporate ties.

See for example Essa with their own page on the Apple website. Funnily enough it hasnt been updated from a previous iteration of the Essa Apple project, so its all about the students all having an ipod touch, and only the teachers have ipads.

http://www.apple.com/uk/education/profiles/essa/

Academies are a great vehicle for trendy heads who like the smell of their own farts. But this cynicism should be balanced with the results & the positive stuff I said previously.


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## elbows (Jan 11, 2013)

Can also play 'how many times will you groan when reading the school magazine'.

http://www.essaacademy.org/uploads/1/0/1/8/10180694/term_3_ink_2012.pdf

Head sitting behind Apple laptop, going on about self-regulation.

'When a group of 6 students went to London to talk to world leaders at The Apple EU Summit'.

'Everyone on this list will go into a draw to win a £15 iTunes or book voucher'.

'Essa Academy is now an Apple Regional Training Centre'.


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## sim667 (Jan 11, 2013)

elbows said:


> Can also play 'how many times will you groan when reading the school magazine'.
> 
> http://www.essaacademy.org/uploads/1/0/1/8/10180694/term_3_ink_2012.pdf
> 
> ...


 
They've probably got a communist style painting of steve jobbs somewhere.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 11, 2013)

Looks like it's that time again. Rumours of a new iPad mini coming soon and possibly a new design for the iPad 5. 



> _Our checks at CES indicate Apple will release the iPad 5 and the second-generation iPad mini this March. The iPad 5 is expected to be lighter and thinner than the iPad 4 that was released in October, while the form factor of the iPad mini should be similar to the first generation iPad mini that debuted in October._


 
There's some good mock ups floating about, with this one being close to the mark of what I expect a new iPad would look like:







Be interesting to see if they can reduce the bezel, weight and slimness and keep the same great battery life...


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2013)

> Our checks at CES indicate Apple will release the iPad 5 and the second-generation iPad mini this March.


What on earth does that mean? It's just more meaningless link bait with zero substance.


----------



## peterkro (Jan 14, 2013)

Java update released to fix security hole.Apples anti-malware has refused to let Java run for the last couple of days (you could override it if that was your wont ),presumably updates also available for Unix,Linux and Windows all of who had been effected by two hacking tools that can run software on your computer.Default security is now set to high which means having click to OK unsigned software.

(should point out this is the Java browser plugin not actual Java)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2013)

Apple cut iPhone 5 orders, cue a torrent of 'Apple are doomed' from the digerati...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2013)

Certainly some odd rumours about at the moment, that one about the iPhone math is very strange...anyway, the obligatory video mock up has arrived...


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2013)

Steve Jobs really was a nasty, bullying cunt.


> Steve Jobs threatened Palm with patents over no-poaching deal, says court filing
> [Colligan - Palm boss]: "In 2007, I received a call from Steve Jobs, the Chief Executive Officer of Apple. In the months before the call, several employees had moved between the two companies. On the call, Mr. Jobs expressed concern about employees being hired away from Apple by Palm. As a solution, Mr. Jobs proposed an arrangement between Palm and Apple by which neither company would hire the other's employees, including high tech employees. Mr. Jobs also suggested that if Palm did not agree to such an arrangement, Palm could face lawsuits alleging infringements of Apple's many patents."
> 
> Colligan's response to Jobs -- that such an arrangement was "not only wrong" but "likely illegal" -- was reported, along with mention of Apple's patents, back in 2009 by Bloomberg, which cited communications it had reviewed. But a sworn statement from Colligan became part of the public record today -- along with e-mails he says passed between him and Jobs -- after Judge Lucy Koh denied a request by the companies facing the civil suit to keep a number of sensitive documents sealed. Koh said last week that the e-mails between the two executives were key evidence for the plaintiffs in the case, according to Reuters.
> ...


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Jan 23, 2013)

Am I being thick? I can't see any difference between the 2012 iPad and the putative iPad 5.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 23, 2013)

King Biscuit Time said:


> Am I being thick? I can't see any difference between the 2012 iPad and the putative iPad 5.


Awesome revolutionary narrower side bezel.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Awesome revolutionary narrower side bezel.


It's the funnest bezel ever. In fact, it's positively bezelutionary.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Jan 23, 2013)

Ah, I see now - I was always shit at spot the difference.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 23, 2013)

King Biscuit Time said:


> Am I being thick? I can't see any difference between the 2012 iPad and the putative iPad 5.


 
Yeah it's just a thinner bezel really...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 23, 2013)

This is quite neat, the last 15 years of Apple's website front pages. Just shows how their product marketing has changed, you wouldn't see a whole front page dedicated to a server these days!


----------



## Winot (Jan 24, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is quite neat, the last 15 years of Apple's website front pages. Just shows how their product marketing has changed, you wouldn't see a whole front page dedicated to a server these days!


 
Remarkable consistency of design.

And the Newton!  A colleague bought one... it never worked...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 24, 2013)

Winot said:


> Remarkable consistency of design.
> 
> And the Newton! A colleague bought one... it never worked...


 
Never saw a Newton in the wild although once knew someone who owned one and liked it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 25, 2013)

> Apple's latest Supplier Responsibility Report has just been published, detailing 393 audits focused on the plants and suppliers that help make all that hardware. The audit number is a 72 percent increase in what it covered in its last annual report, while Apple was also quick to highlight its contracting companies' high compliance (92 percent) with a maximum 60-hour work week. Senior vice president of operations Jeff Williams told _Reuters_ that underage workers and limiting working hours were two of the most challenging issues it faced in its supplier audits. Apple decided to end business relations with component maker Guangdong Real Faith Pingzhou Electronics over underage labour issues. "We go deep in the supply chain to find it," said Williams. "And when we do find it, we ensure that the underage workers are taken care of, the suppliers are dealt with."


 
Looks like Apple are starting to respond to some of the shit thrown their way.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Looks like Apple are starting to respond to some of the shit thrown their way.


About time too.


----------



## elbows (Jan 25, 2013)

Its just a shame there seems to be some difficulty getting interest in their supply chain labour issues to rub off on other companies. I remember some other thread died by the time I pointed out that the company the Foxconn factory involved turned out to be making stuff for was Nintendo.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2013)

elbows said:


> Its just a shame there seems to be some difficulty getting interest in their supply chain labour issues to rub off on other companies.


I think everyone is aware that it involves most of the major tech companies, but it seems absolutely logical to focus on the company that is making the most money out of this exploitation.


----------



## elbows (Jan 25, 2013)

To start with yes, but as time moves on and they start to do something about it, it doesnt seem a good idea to let the others off the hook.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2013)

elbows said:


> To start with yes, but as time moves on and they start to do something about it, it doesnt seem a good idea to let the others off the hook.


I don't think anyone is doing that, are they?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Looks like Apple are starting to respond to some of the shit thrown their way.


 
Good stuff, hopefully this will be another thing Samsung steal.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2013)

*Yawn


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2013)

The Guardian has a piece on this. 


> Apple has discovered multiple cases of child labour in its supply chain, including one Chinese company that employed 74 children under the age of 16, in the latest controversy over the technology giant's manufacturing methods.
> 
> An internal audit found a flipside to the western consumer's insatiable thirst for innovative and competitively priced gadgets. It uncovered 106 cases of underage labour being used at Apple suppliers last year and 70 cases historically. The report follows a series of worker suicides over working conditions at Foxconn, the Taiwanese company that assembles must-have products such as the iPad and iPhone, and lethal explosions at other plants.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 25, 2013)

Looks like Apple's starting to make some headway in China:



> During today's quarterly results call for the first fiscal quarter of 2013, Peter Oppenheimer mentioned that the company focused on establishing a new operating segment of Greater China, including Mainland China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan
> 
> "We have established a new operating segment for China, given the contribution of that region to our business," said Oppenheimer.
> 
> The company has adjusted how it reports revenue for separate geographic regions because of the significant sales of both hardware and software in China during the last couple of years. China was responsible for $6.8 billion of Apple's revenue during the last quarter. Overall revenue in China is up 67%.


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## editor (Feb 4, 2013)

Who fancies trying this? 
Don’t type this phrase on your Mac unless you like crashing apps: ‘File:///’


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## mrs quoad (Feb 5, 2013)

editor said:


> Who fancies trying this?
> Don’t type this phrase on your Mac unless you like crashing apps: ‘File:///’


I've just been enjoying that!

Doesn't work on iOS. Works really quite well on Mountain Lion.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 5, 2013)

mrs quoad editor good lord so it does how bizarre. Incidentally if anyone wants a bit of a laugh have a look at the customer reviews for Mountain Lion server on the App store. One word, don't.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 5, 2013)

I tried it on lion and snow leopard and it didnt work.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2013)

editor said:


> Who fancies trying this?
> Don’t type this phrase on your Mac unless you like crashing apps: ‘File:///’


 
Nah:

$ File:///
-bash: File:///: No such file or directory


----------



## teqniq (Feb 6, 2013)

2hats try it in your web browser - crashed Google Chrome on mine running ML 10.8.2


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2013)

Just tried it on my Air and nothing happened


----------



## peterkro (Feb 6, 2013)

I think it depends on how fast you type it,with my pecking it just brings up a finder window.10.8.2

Edit. Scratch that what a weird bug it crashes Safari immediately when put in the address pane and locks up Safari (beach ball of death) when I try and type it on here (the edit window)
Edit2. Apparently it gets reported in the logs in Crashreporter and Console not from Safari the string doesn't persist but in Messages which also won't reopen.You can send a message to someone else containing the string and it will prevent Message and possibly Crashreporter and Console from opening.Solution is to delete string in Finder.This of course raises the question how do you send it without crashing your own app,I guess by sending a message via a windows machine.


----------



## peterkro (Feb 6, 2013)

2hats said:


> Nah:
> 
> $ File:///
> -bash: File:///: No such file or directory


Apparently it will crash Terminal but not if you're running bash or other programs,if you try and change preferences and type it in (or copy and paste) terminal will crash.As I said what a odd bug,the irony is the only people likely to be affected are silly  buggers like me who try it out for the lols.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2013)

$ lynx File:///
Looking up
Making FTP connection to
Alert!: Unable to connect to FTP host.
Can't Access `file:///'
Alert!: Unable to access document.

lynx: Can't access startfile
$


----------



## peterkro (Feb 6, 2013)

I tried it in the search pane of Word crashed straight away looks like most programs with a text input pane can't handle it (the bug is inside DataDetectors) it's the capital that bollocks it,so file:/// is fine but I can't even input {File:///} on here without putting the brackets in.

http://thenextweb.com/shareables/20...ill-crash-almost-any-application-on-your-mac/


----------



## fractionMan (Feb 6, 2013)

that is a mentally bad bug.  How did it take this long to discover?


----------



## peterkro (Feb 7, 2013)

fractionMan said:


> that is a mentally bad bug. How did it take this long to discover?


I don't think there would be any reason to type it in for the vast majority of users.It works with most things after the first two forward slashes by the way.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2013)

Can't see how anyone would type that in by accident tbh...


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2013)

Even by the ludicrous standards of fantasy writing about Apple, this one has to take the biscuit!
APPLE’S RUMORED IWATCH AND HDTV COULD ADD MORE THAN $80 BILLION TO ANNUAL REVENUE


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 12, 2013)

I take BGR as seriously as I take Gizmodo.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 13, 2013)

I couldnt give a fuck about their revnue..... but I like the iwatch idea, especially if you can control an iphone using it.....


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2013)

sim667 said:


> I couldnt give a fuck about their revnue..... but I like the iwatch idea, especially if you can control an iphone using it.....


Back in the world of makey uppey non-'news' stories, another site has posted this gem:


> There is also word of a likely Galaxy Watch to come along. This device will try and compete with Apple’s famed iWatch.[-]


So the made-up Samsung Watch is already _trying_ to compete with the 'famed' but equally made up iWatch. 

The problem with any of these tech-watch ideas is that the battery life is going to to be utterly shit compared to a regular watch and they're unlikely to be as robust/waterpoof/small etc.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 13, 2013)

Yeah it will need recharging quite a lot I imagine.


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Yeah it will need recharging quite a lot I imagine.


If there was true wireless charging available - so it charged while you wore the thing in bed, for example -  then maybe it might work, but much as I love the idea of a hi-tech wristwatch, if it involves charging the thing up every night, it's a total non starter.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 13, 2013)

What about those watches that power themselves from your body movement? I assume the power needed for a smart watch would make that useless?


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What about those watches that power themselves from your body movement? I assume the power needed for a smart watch would make that useless?


I think you'd have to wave your arms around an awful lot to power the colour screen, Bluetooth connection and high tech innards.


----------



## peterkro (Feb 13, 2013)

editor said:


> I think you'd have to wave your arms around an awful lot to power the colour screen, Bluetooth connection and high tech innards.


Wankers watch.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 13, 2013)

editor said:


> I think you'd have to wave your arms around an awful lot to power the colour screen, Bluetooth connection and high tech innards.


I could see them attempting to sell that as 'A valuable addition to your fitness regime'


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2013)

teqniq said:


> I could see them attempting to sell that as 'A valuable addition to your fitness regime'




I hope this watch doesn't turn out to be another wireless fitness add on - even a prettier one - because there's already loads of them.

*if the watch even exists if course


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2013)

You can already get an Android smartphone watch that even lets you type, browse and make calls.







Its probably crap though.

http://www.wirefresh.com/neptune-pine-android-wristwatch-is-the-smallest-smartphone-weve-ever-seen/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 13, 2013)

It will be interesting to see if anyone does release one then, as that would seem to be a pretty big problem. As you say, any watch you have to take off and charge every night is rather shit.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 13, 2013)

editor said:


> If there was true wireless charging available - so it charged while you wore the thing in bed, for example - then maybe it might work, but much as I love the idea of a hi-tech wristwatch, if it involves charging the thing up every night, it's a total non starter.


 
Im pretty sure with a small screen you could make one last 3 or 4 days.


----------



## elbows (Feb 13, 2013)

Remember the Sinclair Black Watch and shudder.

http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/other/blackwatch.htm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 13, 2013)

sim667 said:


> I couldnt give a fuck about their revnue..... but I like the iwatch idea, especially if you can control an iphone using it.....


 
I don't know why I'd want a watch. Haven't worn one in nearly twenty years so it'd have to be some pretty shit hot gadget to get me to wear one now.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't know why I'd want a watch. Haven't worn one in nearly twenty years so it'd have to be some pretty shit hot gadget to get me to wear one now.


 
I wear one at work, so I don't look rude getting my phone out. That and it's waterproof and cost me less then £20.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 13, 2013)

Watches are quite personal in regards to their type/style though, I can't see how one could look good for most people.

The more I think about it the more it seems like a crap idea.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 13, 2013)

editor said:


> You can already get an Android smartphone watch that even lets you type, browse and make calls.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That look fucking dire on such a small screen.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 13, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Watches are quite personal in regards to their type/style though, I can't see how one could look good for most people.
> 
> The more I think about it the more it seems like a crap idea.


 
The best idea I've seen are the ones that use e-paper for really basic functionality in conjunction with the phone. Still not sure I want one though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 13, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I wear one at work, so I don't look rude getting my phone out. That and it's waterproof and cost me less then £20.


 
Fair enough, I don't know many people that wear them anymore...most just use there phones.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Im pretty sure with a small screen you could make one last 3 or 4 days.


Most watch batteries last for many, many years. Quite a lot use solar and kinetic power so they never have to be charged/wound up. And they're often quite beautiful, stylish things, made of tough metal and glass with many fully waterproof and able to take the rough and tumble of life.

I remain to be convinced of the persuasiveness of a relatively fragile, one-design-fits-all, Bluetooth-connected affair with a tiny screen that needs to be constantly charged all the time.


----------



## elbows (Feb 14, 2013)

I'll remember that when google glasses come out


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 14, 2013)

elbows said:


> I'll remember that when google glasses come out


 
I don't think we're going to be short of reasons not to want to wonder round wearing those.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2013)

elbows said:


> I'll remember that when google glasses come out


Why would you want to do that? I've even less likely to walk around with a pair of them on my noggin as I am to walk around with an Apple watch.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 14, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Im pretty sure with a small screen you could make one last 3 or 4 days.


 
The other nano had 24 hours but that included music playing, could easily get to 3/4 days with a bigger form factor. People are far more used to charging everything these days compared to when watches were first invented so I doubt that will be an issue at all. The real issue here is what problem does an iWatch solve? In your digitally connected life where exactly is the need for a watch?


----------



## editor (Feb 20, 2013)

Macs get their biggest hack attack to date, apparently:


> Apple hacked in what could be the biggest attack on Mac computers ever
> *Apple's statement*
> "Apple has identified malware which infected a limited number of Mac systems through a vulnerability in the Java plug-in for browsers," read a statement released by Apple.
> "The malware was employed in an attack against Apple and other companies, and was spread through a website for software developers. We identified a small number of systems within Apple that were infected and isolated them from our network. There is no evidence that any data left Apple."
> ...


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/19/us-apple-hackers-idUSBRE91I10920130219


----------



## Crispy (Feb 20, 2013)

Moral of the story: Unless you need it for a critical application, uninstall Java.


----------



## editor (Feb 20, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Moral of the story: Unless you need it for a critical application, uninstall Java.


Trouble is, when an app/website demands it, most people usually click 'yes' to the install prompt.


----------



## elbows (Feb 20, 2013)

Anybody know if the info about which site the following refers to is available? "The malware was distributed at least in part through a site aimed at iPhone developers"


----------



## Crispy (Feb 20, 2013)

iphonedevsdk.com


----------



## teqniq (Feb 20, 2013)

I have Java installed, if it all ends in tears I will let you know. 

Incidentally if you are infected, the following files will be on your system:

com.apple.env.plist
com.apple.cocoa.plist
com.apple.cups.plist
com.apple.cupsd.plist


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 20, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Moral of the story: Unless you need it for a critical application, uninstall Java.


 
Yup. Seems that all it does these days is allow fucking hackers to screw about.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 21, 2013)

teqniq said:


> I have Java installed, if it all ends in tears I will let you know.
> 
> Incidentally if you are infected, the following files will be on your system:
> 
> ...


 
There is usually a cups and cupsd plist in Mac OS anyway iirc, im sure it was covered on my ACSP.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 21, 2013)

sim667 said:


> There is usually a cups and cupsd plist in Mac OS anyway iirc, im sure it was covered on my ACSP.


Not on mine there isn't.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 21, 2013)

teqniq said:


> Not on mine there isn't.


 
Just googled it, they're plists for printer detection on 10.6 (the one I did my ACSP on).....

The hack probably named them that as people who do know about plists would just assume they're meant to be there.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 21, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Just googled it, they're plists for printer detection on 10.6 (the one I did my ACSP on).....
> 
> The hack probably named them that as people who do know about plists would just assume they're meant to be there.


Yea I realised they were touting themselves as printer plists Common Unix Printing System but I am running ML here and they aren't on the system.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 21, 2013)

teqniq said:


> *Yea I realised they were touting themselves as printer plists Common Unix Printing System* but I am running ML here and they aren't on the system.


 
The cheeky bastards


----------



## teqniq (Feb 24, 2013)

Oracle have released a patch for Java so Apple now have an update for those who have a full Java installation.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 24, 2013)

teqniq said:


> Oracle have released a patch for Java so Apple now have an update for those who have a full Java installation.


 
How many weeks (or days) do you reckon before another umpteen gaping holes are found in the JRE?


----------



## teqniq (Feb 24, 2013)

2hats said:


> How many weeks (or days) do you reckon before another umpteen gaping holes are found in the JRE?


Heh, I dunno. Hopefully not too soon.


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2013)

This is quite an interesting piece:
Apple Agonistes
What happens to Mac fanatics when the brand bums them out?


> In the history of commerce, only one corporation could fairly be compared to a major religion, in that it's amassed a devoted following and often is a source of public debate: Apple. But what happens to a group of believers when the object of their devotion disappoints them?
> 
> If you're Adam Engst, founder of the 22-year-old website and e-newsletter TidBITs (Tagline: "Apple news for the rest of us"), you convene a 45-minute staff roundtable—fittingly, via Google hangout—to psychoanalyze the question, "Why Do We Still Support Apple?"
> 
> ...


----------



## RedDragon (Feb 28, 2013)

*VidBITS: Why Do We Still Support Apple?*


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2013)

editor said:


> This is quite an interesting piece:
> Apple Agonistes
> What happens to Mac fanatics when the brand bums them out?


 
It would be more interesting to me if I actually knew any fuckwits who treated a corporation, a brand, a platform, as a religion or a tribe or whatever. Who are these idiots? The young, certain kinds of consumers, certain americans? The closest I've got to this sort of thing is the sort of stupid arguments we've had over the years on this forum, which mostly only started once the 'jesus phone' hype started.

More recently I have had the chance to interact with a small group of 16-20 year olds who have gotten into the Apple thing, and who find amusement in taking the piss out of all things Microsoft. But they are young enough that I will not judge them at this stage. And most of the geeks I know, myself included, are temporary fans of particular platforms or technologies but its certain no religion to them and they have an ambivalent set of feels towards corporations.

Its mostly all wank really. A decade ago I was able to search for more meaningful stuff by getting carried away with the potential of opensource web stuff. But a combination of web 2.0 hype and a few corporations coming to dominant the landscape in areas such as youtube, facebook and twitter has rather deflated that bubble for me. I'll get excited about specific uses of technology or new developments in power or interaction but there isnt much that can whip me into a frenzy these days. If I'm to start babbling in tongues about tech at some future point then it will probably have to wait till some other aspects of our economic order have fallen down and opened up new possibilities in the process.


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2013)

I mean here is another great example of why I find much of this stuff utterly alien. The simplistic explanation is that this shit is rather incompatible with british cynicism, possibly enhanced by the fact I've never been cool or worked for a trendy corporation with wanky ideas about the 'space' people work in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21595541



> But have you ever wondered what it is like for the people who work at Facebook?
> One of the world's biggest technology companies, Facebook rely on some old-school methods to motivate their workers - and they encourage employees to get their hands dirty, decorating their surroundings and producing motivational posters.
> Here, as part of the *BBC News - What If?* season, Alastair Leithead visited Facebook's headquarters in California's Silicon Valley for a rare look inside.


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2013)

elbows said:


> It would be more interesting to me if I actually knew any fuckwits who treated a corporation, a brand, a platform, as a religion or a tribe or whatever. Who are these idiots? The young, certain kinds of consumers, certain americans? The closest I've got to this sort of thing is the sort of stupid arguments we've had over the years on this forum, which mostly only started once the 'jesus phone' hype started.


I'm not sure that I'd want to get to know any of these people, but they're certainly out there in numbers - just look at the videos of Apple store openings. Utterly depressing.


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2013)

A percentage of the people who indulge in at least one frenzy at an Apple store are probably caught up in the moment and what everyone else is doing as opposed to being die-hard fans themselves. A lot of the freaky behaviour is from the staff, who have their own reasons for going along with the sad corporate consumer panto. I sometimes wonder how many people were like me when I made the mistake of going along to pickup a new release of OS X at launch back when it wasnt available for download. The experience scarred me and I used up my scowl budget for a whole year in 5 minutes. Never again.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2013)

elbows said:


> A percentage of the people who indulge in at least one frenzy at an Apple store are probably caught up in the moment and what everyone else is doing as opposed to being die-hard fans themselves. A lot of the freaky behaviour is from the staff, who have their own reasons for going along with the sad corporate consumer panto. I sometimes wonder how many people were like me when I made the mistake of going along to pickup a new release of OS X at launch back when it wasnt available for download. The experience scarred me and I used up my scowl budget for a whole year in 5 minutes. Never again.


Well, the staff are _especially_ fucking weird.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 1, 2013)

elbows said:


> A percentage of the people who indulge in at least one frenzy at an Apple store are probably caught up in the moment and what everyone else is doing as opposed to being die-hard fans themselves. A lot of the freaky behaviour is from the staff, who have their own reasons for going along with the sad corporate consumer panto. I sometimes wonder how many people were like me when I made the mistake of going along to pickup a new release of OS X at launch back when it wasnt available for download. The experience scarred me and I used up my scowl budget for a whole year in 5 minutes. Never again.


 
I bought 2 iPads at launch. I just told the guy to calm the fuck down.... Yes it's weird, he said they enjoy it, I said I don't.. it was fine.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 1, 2013)

At Tidbits, they don't have a chat, they convene roundtable Google hangouts to psychoanalyze.

They 'psychoanalyze.' At their roundtable hangout.

I'm genuinely bent double with laughter here 

e2a: not least because I suspect none of them have any notion of what 'psychoanalyze' means, if that excerpt offers any insight at all!  Maybe they're invoking it as a next-gen proto-buzzword for navel gazing


----------



## sim667 (Mar 1, 2013)

I feel nauseous about the rife Americanisation of the word "psychoanalyse" in this thread


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 1, 2013)

mrs quoad said:


> At Tidbits, they don't have a chat, they convene roundtable Google hangouts to psychoanalyze.
> 
> They 'psychoanalyze.' At their roundtable hangout.
> 
> ...


I certainly didn't get the impression they were about to run screaming from their Macs - although I did find their existential angst amusing.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 1, 2013)

sim667 said:


> I feel nauseous about the rife Americanisation of the word "psychoanalyse" in this thread


Let me navel-gase that for you


----------



## 2hats (Mar 4, 2013)

teqniq said:


> Heh, I dunno. Hopefully not too soon.


 
4 days (CVE-2013-1493).


----------



## teqniq (Mar 4, 2013)

2hats said:


> 4 days (CVE-2013-1493).


Oh jeez    however that's a windows-specific vulnerability. Any news on whether it applies to OS X too? I tried googling but no hits. I only have it on my machines because I like Mucommander which will only run with a full Java installation. However I only use it occasionally so if it looks like more OS X vulnerabilities are discovered I may have to ditch it.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 4, 2013)

teqniq said:


> Oh jeez   however that's a windows-specific vulnerability. Any news on whether it applies to OS X too? I tried googling but no hits. I only have it on my machines because I like Mucommander which will only run with a full Java installation. However I only use it occasionally so if it looks like more OS X vulnerabilities are discovered I may have to ditch it.


 
Probably just a matter of tweaking the exploit and changing the payload. I hear there are another two holes that Oracle is currently investigating as well (since the last update).

e2a: The second pair were notified to Oracle _one day_ after the previous update.


----------



## editor (Mar 11, 2013)

Mozilla aren't keen on Apple's walled garden: 



> Mozilla refuses Firefox for iOS app until Apple changes its policies
> Mozilla, the company behind popular web browser Firefox, said it won't develop for iOS until Apple changes its unfriendly attitude toward third party developers.
> 
> Primarily, Mozilla wants to be able to offer its rendering and javascript engines on iOS, something Apple won't allow in its closed App Store environment. Jay Sullivan, vice president of product at Mozilla, revealed the news at the South by Southwest conference in Austin, according to CNET.
> ...


----------



## teqniq (Mar 11, 2013)

If there was one major thing about IOS and iPhones in general it would be Safari. I don't like the browser on a desktop in the first place. No plugins, adverts.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 11, 2013)

Safari is my browser of choice, with firefox as my backup.

Firefox is reliable but slooooooooow. Safari is very quick, but struggles with certain things it seems.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 14, 2013)

Safari is easily first choice for me, fast and personally I've never had it struggle with anything.


I used to like Opera but it seems not to be as fast/reliable as it used to be, plus there are some websites that don't like it.


----------



## peterkro (Mar 14, 2013)

!0.83 now in software update.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 15, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> Safari is easily first choice for me, fast and personally I've never had it struggle with anything.
> 
> 
> I used to like Opera but it seems not to be as fast/reliable as it used to be, plus there are some websites that don't like it.


 
Safari has struggle for me with some types of coding thats used for payment systems


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 26, 2013)

*Apple dumps "highest-resolution notebook ever" tagline thanks to Chromebook Pixel*

TUAW


----------



## sim667 (Mar 26, 2013)

Fuck retina displays, they hurt my eyes more than normal ones for some reasons.


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 26, 2013)

The refresh rate can lag on mine particularly if I'm using Safari.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> *Apple dumps "highest-resolution notebook ever" tagline thanks to Chromebook Pixel*
> 
> TUAW


 
Apple really are shifting their marketing quicker and quicker these days, the competition they now face has woken them up a bit it seems....


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 26, 2013)

That chrome book is no serious competition to Apple.

On the flip side I see there shares are worth half what they were not so long ago, although I suspect that's more to do with them being over vauled to start with then doing any worse.


----------



## editor (Apr 22, 2013)

Interesting piece from Reuters about Apple's apparently diminishing appeal to its partners. 


> Apple Inc marketing chief Phil Schiller let slip during last August's courtroom battle with Samsung that when setting forecasts for new iPhones, the inside joke was that people should assume sales would equal all previous versions combined.
> 
> That quip, uttered in front of Samsung Electronics Co Ltd's trial lawyers and the media, no longer rings true as Apple appears to be losing a once vice-like grip on its supply chain and Wall Street.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Apr 22, 2013)

Apple fanboy deluxe Charles Arthur from the Guardian is off again. And as a reader comments, it is a 'strange article.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2013/apr/22/ipad-uk-yougov-market-share


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 22, 2013)

Aren't Apple's 1st quarters figures due soon?

That share price article in todays guardian must've been more upsetting to Mr Arthur than I anticipated


----------



## elbows (Apr 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Apple fanboy deluxe Charles Arthur from the Guardian is off again. And as a reader comments, it is a 'strange article.'
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2013/apr/22/ipad-uk-yougov-market-share


 
Its a rambling article that caused my eyes to glass over at several points. Its a shame really because he is actually trying to make a point that I support, but the way he's tried to do it and the fact it plays stright into the long-running Apple vs everything else saga rather soils things.

Stock market valuations, current market share and the search for simplistic narratives in the business press certainly do a disservice to the real picture. 

In my opinion that picture is that android tablets are alive, but the ipad still utterly dominates the picture. You know I took issue with past attempts by you to paint a picture of really massive changes to the tablet market happening rather quickly, with android running away with things the way it has with smartphones. That remains my position, although its been a while since I tried to absorb any figures so I will need to refresh myself soon to see just how things are looking. I dont think the numbers Charles threw around are enough but I am a bit tired right now so I will look again after eating a chicken pie.


----------



## editor (Apr 22, 2013)

Apple are still the dons of the tablet world, but I'd be surprised if they remain in that position this time next year. It seems to be a picture that Charles Arthur can't bear to face hence his rather strange article.


----------



## elbows (Apr 22, 2013)

I suppose my point is, how exactly is that supposed to happen? His article is a bit messy and his motive is pretty obvious, but look at the numbers of devices owned in total to date. I dont really understand quite how you expect the picture to change radically in a year without Apples market share of new sales really falling off a cliff, although I suppose that depends on quite how we are judging domination.

I dont think its impossible that it will change in the manner you suggest, but its far from a safe bet that it will. I suppose the big factor is just how many people are going to join the tablet market in the next year, and how they differ from those who have bought tablets to date. Frankly given the price of a number of android-based tablets, and the fairly basic requirements many have of a tablet, I was expecting several of them to have sold more by now. Not that I necessarily trust all of the figures used. I suppose if I add 'other' and Samsung, Nexus 7 & Kindle Fire numbers together then the total is more in line with my expectations, and I simply got carried away with model specific figures such as how many Nexus 7's I expected to be sold given all the attention it received and its price.


----------



## SLK (Apr 22, 2013)

Yes, given Apple's huge dominance back then that can't help be diluted to some extent as they receive competition (and he does do a good job of showing how others have distributed tablets as loss-leaders). What he should be saying explicitly is that they're still getting the vast majority of new tablet owners - not at the rate that they were - but enough to dominate for years and in fact have probably increased their stranglehold.


----------



## elbows (Apr 22, 2013)

Yep, thats what I should have been saying so clearly too if only I were not such a waffler!


----------



## editor (Apr 22, 2013)

Here's more pie graphs than you could ever hope for on the issue:


> *Who’s Winning, iOS or Android? All the Numbers, All in One Place*
> http://techland.time.com/2013/04/16/ios-vs-android/?iid=tl-main-lead


----------



## elbows (Apr 23, 2013)

So would you care to explain what you think will change that will lead to Apples tablet domination having come to an end in a years time?

For example are you predicting that their global market share of new tablet sales will have fallen below 50% by this time next year? 

Or failing that, at least what you are not suggesting. Can we assume you are not suggesting that total uk tablet ownership for ipads will have fallen below the total for android?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 23, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> That chrome book is no serious competition to Apple.
> 
> On the flip side I see there shares are worth half what they were not so long ago, although I suspect that's more to do with them being over vauled to start with then doing any worse.


 
Probably a good time to buy and watch them go woosh when they release their next new product line...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 23, 2013)

SLK said:


> Yes, given Apple's huge dominance back then that can't help be diluted to some extent as they receive competition (and he does do a good job of showing how others have distributed tablets as loss-leaders). What he should be saying explicitly is that they're still getting the vast majority of new tablet owners - not at the rate that they were - but enough to dominate for years and in fact have probably increased their stranglehold.


 
Think he made the wrong point in convoluted way, the real story is the huge market share of Android means nothing in web traffic and profit terms compared to Apple's. That's the numbers game that the anti Apple brigade love playing.


----------



## editor (Apr 23, 2013)

elbows said:


> So would you care to explain what you think will change that will lead to Apples tablet domination having come to an end in a years time?


Well, here's some figures sand predictions that say just that. 


> According to a new report from research firm IDC, tablets running Google's Android operating system are poised to overtake the iPad during the course of 2013.
> 
> A surge of low cost Android-based tablets has prompted IDC to forecast worldwide tablet shipments of 190.9 million, an increase from its previous estimate of 172.4 million.
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Apr 23, 2013)

Cheers,I just wanted to check that is what you were getting at. It seems quite feasible, especially given that some of the 'other' cheapo brands such as Versus are no longer as awful as the non-brand <£100-£150 android tablets used to be.


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 23, 2013)

Not quite the disaster people were expecting $2.5 billion down on profits.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 23, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Not quite the disaster people were expecting $2.5 billion down on profits.


 
Yep, Wall Street killing themselves to do a number on Apple and it hasn't appeared to stopped them raking in cash...that profit slip may also be as much to do with increased competition as market saturation outside emerging markets...


----------



## elbows (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm not surprised, share prices have long been based on bonkers expectations and the entire Apple doom story is rather stupid.

In the shareholder Q&A there was something that may be relevant to the earlier discussion about tablet market share, but will just have to wait and see how it pans out over the rest of the year:



> Tablet numbers that we've seen from IDC, believe market declined 30% from December. We declined 15%. If that holds, we did better than the market and a nice pickup in market share.


 
Are android tablet sales going to fall below my most optimistic expectations again?


----------



## editor (Apr 24, 2013)

elbows said:


> Cheers,I just wanted to check that is what you were getting at. It seems quite feasible, especially given that some of the 'other' cheapo brands such as Versus are no longer as awful as the non-brand <£100-£150 android tablets used to be.


Here's another report.


> *Android closes in on Apple’s tablet market share*
> Apple announced that they sold 19.5 million iPads in the March quarter, which comes out to 48.2% of the global tablet market. That figure is impressive, especially since they only have two tablets on the market, but it is also a huge decrease from the 63.1% share Apple controlled in the same quarter last year. In the first quarter of this year, Android has done nothing but grow as their tablets accounted for 43.4% of all tablets shipped. That is up from 34.2% last year...
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Apr 24, 2013)

I was hoping to get some Q4 figures so that I could make a judgement about how much Apple were bullshitting in their conference call when they expressed the hope that their 15% decline compared to December was less than the overall market 30% decline they reckon IDC reported. But since these companies charge a lot of money for their full reports and they dont choose to give away the headline numbers via press releases every single quarter, I failed.

By the way that Strategy Analytics report says that if non-branded white-box tablets are included, android market share is 52% and Apple 41%. But its not clear to me whether this class of tablet have been included in any of the numbers we've heard over the years, and Strategy Analytics seem to want to classify it as a separate market. They are the sorts of tablets people sneered at and condemned for years because they were quite awful, but as I mentioned in an earlier post some of them are kind of acceptably functional now I guess, assuming the sorts of tablets I was on about actually fit into this class.

http://www.bloomberg.com/article/2013-04-23/aA1hEsTXf7fs.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2013)

Does Apple need a low cost iPhone for emerging markets? Interesting blog post by Ben Evans here...the comments are a good read discussion wise too.


----------



## elbows (May 2, 2013)

Well according to IDC estimates it seems Apple tablet market share already fell well below 50%, so aspects of this conversation have been lagging behind the reality already. Thats if such numbers are to be fully believed, especially given that many of them are estimates and are based on units shipping to the sales channels rather than being sold to end users. However I have no particular reason to massively doubt the trends they show, and the figures shown here for recent quarters do better match what I would have expected to see. Samsung and Asus done well, but It's the 'others' category thats really done it, eg the bargain unheard-of-brand android tablets that I was going on about in other posts. And I'm thinking to a lesser extent the various Windows RT & Windows 8 tablets made by companies other than Microsoft.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24093213


----------



## RedDragon (May 31, 2013)

I know these boards are no longer the place to find up-to-date stuff on Apple these days, but nevertheless Tim Cook's interview at All Things D last week covers a few interesting point once you get beyond the obvious sycophancy of the hosts. 
Full Video


----------



## editor (May 31, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I know these boards are no longer the place to find up-to-date stuff on Apple these days, but nevertheless Tim Cook's interview at All Things D last week covers a few interesting point once you get beyond the obvious sycophancy of the hosts.
> Full Video


To be honest, there hasn't been a lot of Apple news worth repeating. 
I've seen that interview and there's not a lot in there.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 31, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I know these boards are no longer the place to find up-to-date stuff on Apple these days, but nevertheless Tim Cook's interview at All Things D last week covers a few interesting point once you get beyond the obvious sycophancy of the hosts.
> Full Video


 

ATD really are boring as hosts aint they? There's been an insane amount of iOS7 speculative/wishful thinking concept videos lately, no idea why so many people are so excited about it (or perhaps there's just a bunch of designers using this as an example to show of their talents to get work?) it's not like there's going to be a radical shift with the new iOS, it'll just look nicer, have a few common sense tweaks and maybe run a bit faster...right?


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 31, 2013)

Will they be naming it after a new animal? Presumably they've exhausted the panthera genus of big cats to name the OS's after?

Perhaps they could start again with dogs. OSX 7.0 Scottie Dog or summat.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 1, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Will they be naming it after a new animal? Presumably they've exhausted the panthera genus of big cats to name the OS's after?
> 
> Perhaps they could start again with dogs. OSX 7.0 Scottie Dog or summat.


 

Heh OSX ChiWaWa?


----------



## editor (Jun 3, 2013)

Apple up in court on a charge of trying to fix e-book prices with customers forced to pay more.


> Prosecutors claim this allowed Apple to take a percentage of sales made through its iBooks platform. They allege that this practice prevented Amazon from charging lower prices.
> 
> Five publishers originally named as defendants alongside Apple have already reached settlements in which they agreed to terminate their e-book agreements with Apple.
> 
> ...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22746776


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 3, 2013)

Good.


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2013)

Looks like it's all backfiring on Apple. Good.


> *Apple fights to dismiss evidence in ebook price fixing row*
> Apple was battling to limit the torrent of emails which could be used as evidence in its price fixing trial on Monday, as dozens of damning messages painted a picture of a coordinated attempt to force the prices of ebooks upwards.


 


> The US Department of Justice accused the technology giant of "knowingly and intentionally" corralling publishers to raise the price of ebooks from the $9.99 Amazon had established as standard, and to force Amazon to follow suit by withholding key titles if it refused to comply.
> 
> The government agency cited scores of emails and handwritten memos from Apple and five different publishers - Hachette, Harper Collins, Penguin, Simon & Schuster and Macmillan - in which they spoke openly about a plan to push prices up to $12.99 or $14.99 across the entire industry.
> 
> On Monday, as proceedings got under way in room 15b of the austere Manhattan court, Apple lawyers fought to be able to disregard that evidence, unless the Department of Justice was willing to nominate a sponsor for each message used, who was willing to be cross-examined.





> US District Judge Denise Cote, who is presiding over the case at a Federal Court in New York, indicated before the trial even started that the evidence weighed heavily against Apple.
> 
> "I believe that the government will be able to show at trial direct evidence that Apple knowingly participated in and facilitated a conspiracy to raise prices of e-books, and that the circumstantial evidence in this case, including the terms of the agreements, will confirm that," she said last month.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...smiss-evidence-in-ebook-price-fixing-row.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2013)

Good. Anything that brings the book industry to it's knees, brings down prices and speeds up the end of physical books is a good thing.


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2013)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2013)

Price fixing keeps prices artificially high, none would mean a race to the bottom on prices for ebooks thus driving demand as people always go for a bargain over quaint tradition, physical book sales will drop as ebook sales rise. All good for the consumer. And the sooner the book industry is brought to its knees the better.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 4, 2013)

I'm sure the authors can't wait. 

I do agree that ebooks are on the pricey side, but will people buy that many more? It takes considerably longer to read a book then watch a film or listen to album.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I'm sure the authors can't wait.
> 
> I do agree that ebooks are on the pricey side, but will people buy that many more? It takes considerably longer to read a book then watch a film or listen to album.


 

Good authors have nothing to worry about. People will buy on price, that's one of the reasons why so many big retail brands are struggling or have gone under. Saving money trumps tradition no matter what the sentimentalists say...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2013)

Anyway, a new look at an old metric. Apple apparently makes more per customer than any other tech company, and has something like 500 million active users. A great deal easier to see how the hell they make so much money despite being trounced in market share terms of users with phones in their hands...


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2013)

Fantastic news!


----------



## ska invita (Jun 4, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyway, a new look at an old metric. Apple apparently makes more per customer than any other tech company, and has something like 500 million active users. A great deal easier to see how the hell they make so much money despite being trounced in market share terms of users with phones in their hands...


how do they do it 
oh yeah sweat shop labour, overpricing and enforced obsolescence


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2013)

ska invita said:


> how do they do it
> oh yeah sweat shop labour, overpricing and enforced obsolescence


 

Sounds like most big corporations...but tbf they do control a lot of products that people are willing to pay for like iTunes...


----------



## ska invita (Jun 4, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sounds like most big corporations...but tbf they do control a lot of products that people are willing to pay for like iTunes...


is itunes any different to all the other mp3 selling places (not picking a fight here)


----------



## ska invita (Jun 4, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sounds like most big corporations..


yeah but the mad overpricing and inevitable having to upgrade next year etc is pretty unique to apple


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2013)

ska invita said:


> is itunes any different to all the other mp3 selling places (not picking a fight here)


 

Didn't think you were, not defending them at all just giving one example of a successful business of theirs, they aint profitable purely because of slave labour. Plenty of other companies have dodgy employment practices and don't make anywhere near as much money.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2013)

ska invita said:


> yeah but the mad overpricing and inevitable having to upgrade next year etc is pretty unique to apple


 

And no one is forced to buy anything by anyone. These are mass market products, it's not some tiny group of 'fanbois' driving billions of dollars of profits (perhaps ten years ago that characterisation was true but today...?).


----------



## ska invita (Jun 4, 2013)

oh yeah, im just shooting the breeze. my mums neighbour is an avid apple product buyer and after several years he has come to the conclusion its an expensive trick in lots of ways


----------



## Crispy (Jun 5, 2013)

Printing and distribution of physical books is not a large slice of their cost. While it's good to see a price-fixing scheme being broken, do not assume that it will lead to a price crash.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Printing and distribution of physical books is not a large slice of their cost. While it's good to see a price-fixing scheme being broken, do not assume that it will lead to a price crash.


 

Printing costs aren't the issue, holding prices up is. Clearly competition will lead to bette prices and products like it has with music (Spotify being a great example of where books should go).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2013)

Anyway...WWDC next week and the rumours and link baiting speculations are afoot. Like this blurry cam alleging to be the new iOS7 icon look:


----------



## Crispy (Jun 5, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Printing costs aren't the issue, holding prices up is. Clearly competition will lead to bette prices and products like it has with music (Spotify being a great example of where books should go).


 
Spotify is terrible for artists. It's hard enough making a living as an author. Reducing the royalty to a pittance isn't going to help. Book prices are just fine where they are.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 5, 2013)

Also I'm not sure how a Spotify model would even work. People register to music, you don't tend to reread books very often. 

A lot of artists have compensated for falling record sales with money from gigs. Again I'm not sure how that would work for authors.


----------



## editor (Jun 5, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyway...WWDC next week and the rumours and link baiting speculations are afoot. Like this blurry cam alleging to be the new iOS7 icon look:


By Christ, Apple fans must be desperate for news if that blurry of pictures of icons looking almost exactly the same as they do now passes for hot news.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 5, 2013)

It's been a long time since anything new, we're starved, show some sensitivity damn it!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2013)

Apparently the fact that the new iOS number 7 is thinner is now news:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Spotify is terrible for artists. It's hard enough making a living as an author. Reducing the royalty to a pittance isn't going to help. Book prices are just fine where they are.


 

So? No one really used to make money out of music, it's a new thing (last 4-50 years) that anyone made serious cash out of it. Spotify is one way of stopping that returning to that as the rise of net music distribution threatened too.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 7, 2013)

Keynote 6pm Monday 10th


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Keynote 6pm Monday 10th


 

Looks like the so called iRadio will be announced given Apple have closed a deal with Sony. What else, new MacBook's? iOS7...possibly the next OS X. Can't really see much more than that tbh...they don't really do one more things anymore so not expecting any surprises.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 7, 2013)

Keyword seems to be FLAT FLAT FLAT


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Keyword seems to be FLAT FLAT FLAT


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2013)

Looks like the new OS X will get a preview, they appear to have dropped the animal imagery:


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 7, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like the new OS X will get a preview, they appear to have dropped the animal imagery:


 





Judging by that ocean poster could we be looking at OS X Sea Lion (?)


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2013)

Since when did a _fucking backdrop_ count as tech news? It's even duller than that crappy icon picture.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 7, 2013)

It's called speculative build-up, innit.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 7, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Judging by that ocean poster could we be looking at OS X Sea Lion (?)


 
But is it ART?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Judging by that ocean poster could we be looking at OS X Sea Lion (?)


 

OSX Whoa?


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 10, 2013)

Come on then, wow me.
(Starts 32 minutes )


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2013)

I have a feeling they are going to make some controversial changes, but I am going out at 6 so will miss much of the live 'fun'.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Don't hold ya breath!


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

I anticipate a liberal borrowing of ideas and interfaces from Windows and Android, and a music service that will be of little interest to anyone who hasn't committed their lives to the  Apple eco-system.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2013)

elbows said:


> I have a feeling they are going to make some controversial changes


I doubt it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

And what you got was Mario Kart done iOS style...surreal.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

OSX Mavricks? Top Gun fans will be happy...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> I anticipate a liberal borrowing of ideas and interfaces from Windows and Android, and a music service that will be of little interest to anyone who hasn't committed their lives to the Apple eco-system.


 
Music system sounds a bit crap from what I heard, I'll stick to spotify.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

California inspired OS names 

Have to admit I've never heard of Mavericks? Only lived in California 2 years.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Dock looks more interesting with a hint of iBooks and what looks like a map app...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Music system sounds a bit crap from what I heard, I'll stick to spotify.


 
Spotify have been in the game for a while and have a huge head start and getting some plum catalogues on board . I'm getting more than a little annoyed with its continued bloat recently but Apple would have to pull something pretty incredible out of the bag to contend with $5/month for unlimited music.

*reminds self to cancel Google Music*


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Dragging screens between device and apple TV is pretty nifty.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Ah quick reply for notifications, means it's coming to iOS...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

I thought it already had that, just slide the notification instead of the bar at the bottom?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2013)

Ah, HAH. Mac Pro. Let's see what they're bringing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

12 hours battery life on the MBA 13", pretty useful.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)




----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2013)

Blimey


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

That er isnt what I expected.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

LOL

"Can't innovate anymore my ass." - Phil Schiller


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)




----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2013)

Hmm. Good luck upgrading the graphics in that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)




----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Hmm. Good luck upgrading the graphics in that.


 
Thunderbolt.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

How dated does this image look?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

So iTunes Radio is basically Last FM/Pandora phone equivalent with added 'buy in iTunes' link. Meh.

not even directly challenging spotify.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

I liked the metallic look of the old Apple desktops. This looks cheap and awful.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> So iTunes Radio is basically Last FM/Pandora phone equivalent with added 'buy in iTunes' link. Meh.
> 
> not even directly challenging spotify.


 
Since switching to Spotify's browser-powered interface, I've found myself using a whole lot more. It's very slick.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2013)

iOS 7 looks rather pretty.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Would anyone really describe this as a "stunning" interface? It just looks like bigger icons with a mix of Google and Microsoft's design ethos  added.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 12 hours battery life on the MBA 13", pretty useful.


Yep, couple that with instant on/wake and you have what's good about a tablet coupled with the useful bits of a laptop.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Eeeurgh. Looks like a cheapo third-party skinned Android app.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm impressed with the 12 hr battery life of the Air though. They're very nice machines.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Eeeurgh. Looks like a cheapo third-party skinned Android app.


I have a feeling it will look a lot better in the flesh on a retina screen.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Since switching to Spotify's browser-powered interface, I've found myself using a whole lot more. It's very slick.


 
I gave it a pass when it first launched because it looked crap and felt slow, but I just checked back and its way better now. And it doesn't have any of the horrid bloated apps which are ruining the standalone player's slick feel.

I might just use the browser version after all.


----------



## peterkro (Jun 10, 2013)

What's up with Jonny Ives looks like he's put on several stones?


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I have a feeling it will look a lot better in the flesh on a retina screen.


But where's Apple's famous simplicity and sweet design?






it looks like a half-baked clumsy rip off of Android created with a child's palette. It's awful.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> I gave it a pass when it first launched because it looked crap and felt slow, but I just checked back and its way better now. And it doesn't have any of the horrid bloated apps which are ruining the standalone player's slick feel.
> 
> I might just use the browser version after all.


I've not touched the desktop version since. The way it keeps suggesting new acts and lets you fade in a few seconds of random acts is very compelling. I was mulling over switching to Google, but it's so good I'm sticking with Spotify for a while yet.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> I gave it a pass when it first launched because it looked crap and felt slow, but I just checked back and its way better now. And it doesn't have any of the horrid bloated apps which are ruining the standalone player's slick feel.
> 
> I might just use the browser version after all.


The ipad app is fantastic. Coupled with an airport for wireless streaming to a hifi it's my perfect music system.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Note to tech companies: using Daft Punk 'Get Lucky' to hawk your products is _so_ two months ago.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> But where's Apple's famous simplicity and sweet design?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Eh? That is beautifully simple and elegant. What do you mean by a child palette? Those colours are from the icons behind, it's a frosted glass type effect, no?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> iOS 7 looks rather pretty.


 

Seems quite snappy too.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Eh? That is beautifully simple and elegant.


Lordy, you're started regurgitating Apple's hyperbole!

Not by any definition is that a "beautifully simple and elegant" anything. It's confusing and cluttered with a wishy washy colour scheme.
How do I switch to auto brightness? Why is there no album artwork? I don't even understand what some of those icons mean.

It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but by Apple's previous design standards, it's dire.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep, couple that with instant on/wake and you have what's good about a tablet coupled with the useful bits of a laptop.


 

Indeed.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> I've not touched the desktop version since. The way it keeps suggesting new acts and lets you fade in a few seconds of random acts is very compelling. I was mulling over switching to Google, but it's so good I'm sticking with Spotify for a while yet.


 
Yeah they're making the mistake of iTunes by keep bloating it out with useless crap trying to corner the market that last fm and pandora have. Thankfully thats nowhere to be seen on the browser version.

Also Google Music is one of the worst google products I've ever used. It's only use so far has been a free backup of 20,000 tracks which will come in handy if I happen to loose my backup of mp3s.

I'm surprised iTunes didn't launch a direct spotify competitor today. The whole ' virtual streaming radio' way of consuming music based on algorithmic suggestions has never worked for me. I still prefer actual radio hosted by actual real people, and building my own playlists based on that in spotify.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Three things I noticed about this keynote:


The blatant 'Fuck you' attitude, lots of fuck skeu, fuck Google and fuck anyone that doesn't think we can innovate etc
In the iOS bit he said 'edge to edge' or 'to the edge' of the screen a few times, dunno why bit it seemed a little curious...almost a hint of future hardware design?
The calendar, was it me or did I see a 'Inbox: 2' in the bottom right corner? Agendus style app integration coming?
Thing that last one is the most interesting, the rumours of apps integrating didn't really surface here from what I saw, wondering what was left out that we'll see later? Also, Siri? Perfunctory update or what?? With Google Now now (heh) leading the charge toward a Jarvis future can Apple really afford to have Siri do just the basics?
Curious.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

I don't mind the interface but it's being hyped beyond belief, it's just a less glassy 3D look and a more pastel-y flat look. Hardly revolutionary.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Yeah they're making the mistake of iTunes by keep bloating it out with useless crap trying to corner the market that last fm and pandora have. Thankfully thats nowhere to be seen on the browser version.
> 
> Also Google Music is one of the worst google products I've ever used. It's only use so far has been a free backup of 20,000 tracks which will come in handy if I happen to loose my backup of mp3s.
> 
> I'm surprised iTunes didn't launch a direct spotify competitor today. The whole ' virtual streaming radio' way of consuming music based on algorithmic suggestions has never worked for me. I still prefer actual radio hosted by actual real people, and building my own playlists based on that in spotify.


 

Have to say the radio thing doesn't interest me either, I'd much prefer a Spotify thing (prefer albums as an organising way with music to playlists too)...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Lordy, you're started regurgitating Apple's hyperbole!
> 
> Not by any definition is that "beautifully simple and elegant" anything. It's confusing and cluttered with a* wishy washy colour scheme*.
> How do I switch to auto brightness? Why is there no album artwork? I don't even understand what some of those icons mean.
> ...


 
Its black and white?

Looks like a nice refresh to me.  All those control were getting a bit spread out and hard to access.

I am happy with the original interface and its nice to see that they are just refining it rather than wholesale change for the sake of change.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm surprised iTunes didn't launch a direct spotify competitor today. The whole ' virtual streaming radio' way of consuming music based on algorithmic suggestions has never worked for me. I still prefer actual radio hosted by actual real people, and building my own playlists based on that in spotify.


I used to be the same but since I've switched to the Spotify browser version I've discovered quite a few unexpectedly good - and quite obscure - acts. 

*apols for the derail


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

iOS 7 preview page is up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Its black and white?
> 
> Looks like a nice refresh to me. All those control were getting a bit spread out and hard to access.
> 
> I am happy with the original interface and its nice to see that they are just refining it rather than wholesale change for the sake of change.


 

I'd like to be able to config what appears in that bottom up tray thing. I certainly don't need a bloody torch!


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 10, 2013)

A thumbs up for iOS 7

OS Compton better be a very inexpensive update

Mac Pro looks like my kitchen bin.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Saw an amusing tweet about the look of iOS7, basically the question is will it look ok on a black iPhone?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> With Google Now now (heh) leading the charge toward a *Jarvis future* can Apple really afford to have Siri do just the basics?
> Curious.


 
A what now?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> A thumbs up for iOS 7
> 
> OS Compton better be a very inexpensive update
> 
> Mac Pro looks like my kitchen bin.


 

OS Compton! HAHA!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> A what now?


 

You never seen Iron Man? 

(And there was me thinking this was a forum for geeks...)


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Eeeurgh. This looks like the kind of novelty computer case you'd get from a PC fair.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Eh? That is beautifully simple and elegant. What do you mean by a child palette? Those colours are from the icons behind, it's a frosted glass type effect, no?


 

I think it looks quite nice, not some mind blowing design but not some utter shite and some would have you believe...simple.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You never seen Iron Man?
> 
> (And there was me thinking this was a forum for geeks...)


 
No, soz. Did I miss an in-joke?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Heh this looks like something that would create a blackhole.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> No, soz. Did I miss an in-joke?


 

Nah just an inadvertently obtuse film reference, nae worries...


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Why would anyone want a_ round_ computer?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

That pretty cool for a desktop.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Kinda thinking this keynote is only half the story, lots of little things I thought 'Ok, nice about time but where's...' like on the iWork in the iCloud. Nice that it's finally in browser (I was doing this with Writely which become Google Docs bloody years ago mind) but where's the collaboration?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> That pretty cool for a desktop.


 

For a line of tech that's essentially obsolete for the mass consumer market Apple have done something interesting in actually making a desktop look cool. Never thought that was possible...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Why would anyone want a_ round_ computer?


 
Everyone else has square ones?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Yeah I quite that new design. It's hardly worse than the current one which weighs a fuckton and sits happily nowhere IME.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Curious they've revamped iOS yet OSX Mavericks (seriously, what?) still has the usual dated icon look: http://www.apple.com/osx/preview/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Yeah I quite that new design. It's hardly worse than the current one which weighs a fuckton and sits happily nowhere IME.


 

Yep, it's a nice design. Almost like what Stanely Kubrick and Dyson would produce if they ever you know created a desktop.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Map app for OS X is predictable nice to see syncing across to iOS too. About bloody time they sorted Notification Centre syncing too!


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

be nice if they put all the cable connections at the bottom and a cover for the back ones.  Then you could drill a hole into your desk and then it would look totally smooth all round.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Everyone else has square ones?


Enjoy your revolutionary round phone and round monitor when it arrives.


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## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

I don't recall saying it was revolutionary, its just a desktop PC, in a very cool looking case IMO.


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## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Looks like Apple's investment in maps hasn't quite worked out as expected. 


> Apple’s plan to wean iPhone users off Google apps seems to have backfired
> 
> The reason that Apple has invested a good deal of resources into creating its own iOS Maps application is pretty straightforward: It wasn’t to control, and earn money from, all aspects of the iOS user experience and doesn’t want Google to become entrenched as the dominant application developer for iPhone users. However, The Wall Street Journal reports that Apple’s efforts to nudge its users away from Google-made apps such as YouTube and Maps have so far been failures as new data show that iPhone users are relying on Google apps more than ever before.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

New notification centre is nicer, and more functional, finally.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> I don't recall saying it was revolutionary, its just a desktop PC, in a very cool looking case IMO.


I bought a 'cool' case once. It had dials, lights and everything. And then I realised that seeing as it sits under the desk, all that matters is that it does its job, and is quiet and unobtrusive.

I've never felt the urge to buy a round computer, no matter how many people insist that it's "cool."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Mail clearly follows Mailbox' lead. The weather app is basically their version of Yahoo's recent attempt:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Would be very cool if this was configurable. I'd dump airplay and the torch and move airdrop into the bottom row:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

LOL Macrumours posters going crazy by the look of the message I just saw:

Our forum server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.


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## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

If its not configurable now, expect it to be in the future.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> If its not configurable now, expect it to be in the future.


 

Yeah I guess but why not now, seems like an easy thing to add...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Also, quick reply via Notification Centre on Mac but not iOS, wtf?!


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Enjoy your revolutionary round phone and round monitor when it arrives.


 
I thought you were a fan of curved screens 

The new Mac Pro looks to be metallic rather than black according to Engadget pics (the earlier black one was with the case off and the ones in the presentation looked like renders to me).

The shape is just the usual Apple stuff, remember all the strange shaped desktops/all-in-ones of the past? The important thing is how much smaller it is. I expect the price will suck just as much as usual though.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> I bought a 'cool' case once. It had dials, lights and everything. And then I realised that seeing as it sits under the desk, all that matters is that it does its job, and is quiet and unobtrusive.
> 
> I've never felt the urge to buy a round computer, no matter how many people insist that it's "cool."


 
fair enough, but you can't deny that a lot Apple products have been bought partly on the basis they they looked way cooler than their PC equivalents, even if they didn't physically do anything better or quicker.

Apple's fortunes taking off around the same time they started bringing out hip new designs of products can't just be a coincidence.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah I guess but why not now, seems like an easy thing to add...


 
Agile development.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> If its not configurable now, expect it to be in the future.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> fair enough, but you can't deny that a lot Apple products have been bought partly on the basis they they looked way cooler than their PC equivalents, even if they didn't physically do anything better or quicker.


Of course they have. Apple have employed some stunning designs. This is not one of them. It's gimmicky and smacks of desperation. And it looks like a bin.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

Ooo, a polished stainless steel PC.

Even cooler than the black one.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

I'd stick that futuristic funky looking round canister thing on my desk.

I wouldn't necessarily want a big chunky square computery looking thing though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Agile development.


 

Sure I know what that is but the fact is a 'feature' like that doesn't get updated in some iOS 7.01 update, that's a hold off till iOS 8 the speed Apple work at...seems like real low hanging fruit.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 10, 2013)

That Mac Pro is going to be mega expensive, especially being 'assembled' in the US of A.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Ooo, a polished stainless steel PC.
> 
> Even cooler than the black one.


 

Ah man don't rise to the obvious bait.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Anyone else think the new OSX is really just a bunch of 'lets clear this shit off our work stack' updates:



> *Finder has tabs support* with drag and drop, window merging, and full-screen support
> *Tags* come to the Mac for searching meta data, tags show up in the sidebar
> *Multi-display enhancements*: support for full screen, menus span multiple displays, Docks can be summoned from any display, spaces span independently across multiple monitors
> *Significant performance improvements,* including compressed memory, AppNap, Timer Coalescing, OpenGL 4, accelerated smoothed scrolling
> ...


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2013)

At least it will actually get launched, unlike Googles rather round, made in the USA Nexus Q 

I cant decide whether I like the new iOS 7 looks or not. Elements of the design really appeal to me and its about time they made more use of swiping to go back. I will reserve judgement until I can see it in action on an ipad.

Surprised editor didnt point out that someone finally nicked the main good UI aspect of WebOS, the multitasking app switching UI.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


>


 
I am a software developer and I see the agile process at work, some things get put in and some things don't make it, things are prioritised. 

This is how modern software is developed and how Apple launched the iPhone 1 without cut and paste.  It was in there as a task, but releasing the phone was put above cut and paste because someone decided the phone was perfectly usable and would sell without it.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyone else think the new OSX is really just a bunch of 'lets clear this shit off our work stack' updates:


 
They ran out of radical ideas for OS X some time ago. Since they arent embracing multitouch screens for laptops etc and the OS performs pretty well already, there isnt all that much for them to do and they seem content to make relatively minor revisions each year for now.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> I am a software developer and I see the agile process at work, some things get put in and some things don't make it, things are prioritised.
> 
> This is how modern software is developed and how Apple launched the iPhone 1 without cut and paste. It was in there as a task, but releasing the phone was put above cut and paste because someone decided the phone was perfectly usable and would sell without it.


 
All the same they are not renowned for allowing a great deal of UI customisation. I didnt even bother hoping for widgets this time around since its obvious they arent into that stuff. Perhaps the better app switching will somewhat compensate for this though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

If Apple made a nuclear warhead it'd probably look like this:


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> I am a software developer and I see the agile process at work, some things get put in and some things don't make it, things are prioritised.
> 
> This is how modern software is developed and how Apple launched the iPhone 1 without cut and paste. It was in there as a task, but releasing the phone was put above cut and paste because someone decided the phone was perfectly usable and would sell without it.


Excuses, excuses. This is basic menu-customising stuff that has been available on other OSs for years.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

Didn't see if it would run on my iPhone 4.  I am hopeful that it will without it grinding to a halt.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Just figured out what this reminded me of, that bit in Empire Strikes Back when you see Darth Vader from behind as his helmet is placed on:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Didn't see if it would run on my iPhone 4. I am hopeful that it will without it grinding to a halt.


 

Yup, runs on iPhone 4 and even the iPad mini.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

elbows said:


> I thought you were a fan of curved screens


 
Curved screens, yes. Round, no!

Is that a tea urn?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

See Apple know that most people want to display their products, not hide them away. That's why they make them sexy and shiny.

It's a shame Microsoft don't get it re: xbox.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Excuses, excuses. This is basic menu-customising stuff that has been available on other OSs for years.


 
Excuse, no not really, just the reality that there is only so much you can do in a set amount of time if you want it to do what is asked and be stable. 

There is a well know adage in software development, people don't really remember delays but they remember crappy software. 

I refer you to Apple Maps.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> See Apple know that most people want to display their products, not hide them away. That's why they make them sexy and shiny.
> 
> It's a shame Microsoft don't get it re: xbox.


 
Oh I don't know about that, I quite like the design of the new One.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Excuse, no not really, just the reality that there is only so much you can do in a set amount of time if you want it to do what is asked and be stable.


How long does it take to create a menu that lets a user swap a few items around?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Yup that inbox thing I mentioned earlier is definetely there, scroll down and see: xhttp://www.apple.com/ios/ios7/design/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> See Apple know that most people want to display their products, not hide them away. That's why they make them sexy and shiny.
> 
> It's a shame Microsoft don't get it re: xbox.


 

I actually quite like the new xbox design, just don't know if I like what MS is intending to do with the console...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Oh I don't know about that, I quite like the design of the new One.


 


Kid_Eternity said:


> I actually quite like the new xbox design, just don't know if I like what MS is intending to do with the console...


 
Really? That boring chunk of plastic black square? That'd get hidden away out of sight pronto if I bought one, which I wouldn't anyway.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> How long does it take to create a menu that lets a user swap a few items around?


 
A lot longer than you may imagine.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Really? That boring chunk of plastic black square? That'd get hidden away out of sight pronto if I bought one, which I wouldn't anyway.


 
Admittedly, if you were to look at the new Xbox thread. I asked for chrome plated Infinity shape for a console when that name was suggested.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> A lot longer than you may imagine.


Sure looks like others don't seem to find adding a few extra menu choices such an overwhelming challenge.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Sure looks like others don't seem to find adding a few extra menu choices such an overwhelming challenge.


 
That's not how it works. Someone decides what goes in and what doesn't based upon what they think is more important. If it was deemed important it would have been done, if you can't then they didn't.

iOS isn't some trivial toy OS, it is the most reliable consumer OS I have ever used. My iPad and my iPhone have never ever crashed or slowed down or gone wrong in any way what.so.ever. The mini has never even been powered off, its run from the moment I opened the box until now as I rarely take it outside and it goes on and on.

That is a major coup in OS design and build in consumer OS's. That level of reliability comes at a cost.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Really? That boring chunk of plastic black square? That'd get hidden away out of sight pronto if I bought one, which I wouldn't anyway.


 

Yeah I like the industrial look of it, just a block, with simple lines and grates. Nice.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah I like the industrial look of it, just a block, with simple lines and grates. Nice.


 
It looks 'orrible and plastic to me, but I'm admittedly not much of a gamer and don't have much interest in it plus it would undoubtedly sit under the TV so fairly out of sight anyway.

The new mac pro, now I could imagine that sitting on top of glassy desks rather than on the floor like the heavy chunky old models.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

Apple have a preview page for the Mac Pro up...

http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

I think it looks great. Far from looking like a tea urn. It looks like its from _SPACE_


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apple have a preview page for the Mac Pro up...
> 
> http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/


 
It looks even more fly on the inside.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> I think it looks great. Far from looking like a tea urn. It looks like its from _SPACE_


 
If Darth Vader had a computer it'd look like that.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2013)

I think that new Pro looks great. Cue PC's looking like that within 6 months 

I don't even dare to think what a fully spec'd one will cost though


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Sunray said:


> That's not how it works. Someone decides what goes in and what doesn't based upon what they think is more important. If it was deemed important it would have been done, if you can't then they didn't.


Enjoy waiting for such a basic function then.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> It looks 'orrible and plastic to me, but I'm admittedly not much of a gamer and don't have much interest in it plus it would undoubtedly sit under the TV so fairly out of sight anyway.
> 
> The new mac pro, now I could imagine that sitting on top of glassy desks rather than on the floor like the heavy chunky old models.


All those attached cables won't look any prettier though. I can't think of any reason why I'd want to give up desk space for a computer or have all the cables on show.


----------



## Elvis Parsley (Jun 10, 2013)

wow, looks pretty, but where do apple get their design ideas from?

oh, hang on..


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 10, 2013)

It look small enough 10" x 6" to fit on a shelf. 

Doubt if I'd be able to afford one.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If Apple made a nuclear warhead it'd probably look like this:


 

Nope - Can't see any beauty in that. Looks like you should be able to stub your fag out on the top of it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> It look small enough 10" x 6" to fit on a shelf.
> 
> Doubt if I'd be able to afford one.


 

Lol I wouldn't buy one of these! This is a pure niche market product.


----------



## souljacker (Jun 10, 2013)

I was bothered about ios7 at first, until I saw this:


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

souljacker said:


> I was bothered about ios7 at first, until I saw this:


 
And the point of that battery sucking novelty is....?


----------



## souljacker (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> And the point of that battery sucking novelty is....?


 

It has the same point as my weather based animated background on my s2. It makes me happy.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

souljacker said:


> It has the same point as my weather based animated background on my s2. It makes me happy.


 
The weather animation at least conveys some useful information but I'm not sure how long I'd be waving my homescreen around just to see this effect. I imagine the novelty would swiftly wear off.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

souljacker said:


> I was bothered about ios7 at first, until I saw this:


 
That was a curious little addition...not sure what I think of it until I hold it in my hand tbh but like the weather animations, something nice about having moving images on that.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 10, 2013)




----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 10, 2013)

Don't like iOS7 at all


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

twentythreedom said:


> Don't like iOS7 at all


 

I'm not really going to bother forming strong opinions until I get to actually use it tbh...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2013)

New advert that's surely going to throw the Ed into an apoplectic fit!


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> New advert that's surely going to throw the Ed into an apoplectic fit!


Oh, I just find it funny.
Is that guy holding a Nexus 7 at 0:29? It's hard to tell the difference.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

That is a terrible ad. It could only be worse by using ukeleles or a quirky hipster tune.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 10, 2013)

editor said:


> The weather animation at least conveys some useful information but I'm not sure how long I'd be waving my homescreen around just to see this effect. I imagine the novelty would swiftly wear off.


 
Maybe. I'm not going to buy a new iOS device, but think it's cool in a pointless sort of way, but stuff like that I like. I still find a lot of animations on Chrome on the new android quite neat, despite serving no real purpose. If you got a nice bit of hardware, then why not?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2013)

Apple and Samsung are both guilty of pointless gimmicks to shift phones.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2013)

The Android screen is on the left in case anyone was having trouble working out which was which.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 10, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple and Samsung are both guilty of pointless gimmicks to shift phones.


 

I don't buy a new phone for pointless gimmicks. It's for a faster CPU, better screen, smoother software and improved battery life. The pointless gimmicks are just nice to have when you've blown the money.


----------



## Silva (Jun 11, 2013)

I have a background of a videogame as the wallpaper of my shitty droid since day 1 because I like the scrolling effect, so I'm not going to judge people on that 

The Mac Pro looks a lot of stuff. From a tall ashtray, a ice bucket, a toilet trash bin, a Dyson to a Braun coffee maker and a lot more stuff. Unless something is rarely to be touched, chrome is awful. It will look like crap after the first half-drunken attempt to plug a usb stick up it's read end.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> That is a terrible ad. It could only be worse by using ukeleles or a quirky hipster tune.


 

Didn't realise till I read it that it's Ben Afleck narrating too. Says it all really.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2013)

Some more video of iOS7 in action here:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57588632-37/ios-7-hands-on-videos-leak-out-onto-the-web/

They've _totally_ ripped off WebOS with the multi-tasking, and there's a fair bit of Windows influence in there.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2013)

I think this article gets it right:


> The Control Center, a new option which can be summoned with a quick swipe up from the bottom of the screen is actually a great idea, but its design and organization of items is bizarre.
> 
> It is an odd, jarring collection of functions. Toggles for oft-used controls, a brightness bar, a music player? AirDrop accessibility? A flashlight app? The clock?
> 
> ...


http://www.theverge.com/apple/2013/6/10/4416726/the-design-of-ios-7-simply-confusing


----------



## Sunray (Jun 11, 2013)

Thing is, I use a lot of those controls a lot of the time, many are all over the place so putting them into one place makes a lot of sense to me.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Thing is, I use a lot of those controls a lot of the time, many are all over the place so putting them into one place makes a lot of sense to me.


 
Yes. It's a great idea. Android has had it for years, but their implementation is a lot better thought out than Apple's copy because you can fully customise it so only the things you want will appear in menu.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 11, 2013)

Apple are not big on customisation, so its not very surprising.

Their way or buy Android.


----------



## souljacker (Jun 11, 2013)

editor said:


> Yes. It's a great idea. Android has had it for years, but their implementation is a lot better thought out than Apple's copy because you can fully customise it so only the things you want will appear in menu.


 

Which bit of the Android menu are you talking about?


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2013)

souljacker said:


> Which bit of the Android menu are you talking about?


 
The one that gives quick access to settings.


> Swipe up from the bottom of your iOS 7 device and what’s that? A settings panel that provides quick access to things like Wifi, Airplane mode, and many others? Why yes, yes it is. Remind you of something? Again, there is nothing mind-blowing about having this option built into a mobile OS, in fact, it is quite a no-brainer, but the fact is, Apple hasnt’t done it till now. Android has.
> http://blog.inner-active.com/2013/0...otally-ripped-off-from-competitors-for-ios-7/


----------



## souljacker (Jun 11, 2013)

editor said:


> The one that gives quick access to settings.


 

Is that in the latest version or something? I've not got it (S2 running v4.0.4).


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2013)

souljacker said:


> Is that in the latest version or something? I've not got it (S2 running v4.0.4).


 
I've rooted and mine and added a shiny new ROM so am using the Android default, but there's loads of apps letting you do much the same:







https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.anttek.quicksettings&hl=en






https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=apocalipsisx.controlpanel


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Thing is, I use a lot of those controls a lot of the time, many are all over the place so putting them into one place makes a lot of sense to me.


 

Indeed, in fact people were complaining about the lack of simplicity here.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2013)

That loop guy seems happy:



> One of the highlights of the keynote address was whenever Craig Federighi, Apple’s senior vice president of Software Engineering, took the stage. He was jovial and interacted with the crowd very well, often cracking jokes about the lack of skeuomorphic elements in the new design.


 
Aside from all that one thing I did notice was the quality of the actual presentations was far better than last year. Phil Schiller wasn't anywhere near as weirdly self referential or nervous this time. Looks like someone's twigged that you have to project confidence and ease if you want people to buy in to what you're selling...


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 11, 2013)

They were a tad too confrontational towards their competition for my liking. Craig Federighi was brilliant but the guy doing the iWork's in iCloud presentation was seriously boring.

Looks familiar speculation


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2013)

Looking good for upgrading to OSX 10.9 for users with older machines:



> Mac (Mid-2007 or later)
> MacBook (13-inch Aluminum, Late 2008), (13-inch, Early 2009 or later)
> MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid-2009 or later), (15-inch, Mid/Late 2007 or later), (17-inch, Late 2007 or later)
> MacBook Air (Late 2008 or later)
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> They were a tad too confrontational towards their competition for my liking. Craig Federighi was brilliant but the guy doing the iWork's in iCloud presentation was seriously boring.
> 
> Looks familiar speculation


 

I think they should be more confrontational tbh, it's good to see these companies fighting hard to beat the shit out of each other.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 11, 2013)

So anything that can take Lion.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> So anything that can take Lion.


 

Basically.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 11, 2013)

If Apple are copying things that Android have been doing for ages, I don't have a problem with that at all. I'd rather tech manufacturers look and learn what works in the market and imitate rather than dig their heels in out of spite.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> If Apple are copying things that Android have been doing for ages, I don't have a problem with that at all. I'd rather tech manufacturers look and learn what works in the market and imitate rather than dig their heels in out of spite.


Me neither. It's the 'going thermo-nuclear' on others doing the same as them that bothers me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> If Apple are copying things that Android have been doing for ages, I don't have a problem with that at all. I'd rather tech manufacturers look and learn what works in the market and imitate rather than dig their heels in out of spite.


 

Really don't care about this false narrative of copying versus innovation. It's all been done before, as long as it's easy to use and works well I'm happy.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 11, 2013)

editor said:


> Me neither. It's the 'going thermo-nuclear' on others doing the same as them that bothers me.


 
Yes, indeed. Patented 'curved corners' and virtual slide bars ffs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2013)

Nice little hands on video of iOS7 which gives a sense of the interactions and it's speed:


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 12, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Didn't see if it would run on my iPhone 4. I am hopeful that it will without it grinding to a halt.


Some reports of there being no parallax, animated weather or dock transparency on the iP4.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 12, 2013)

I can cope. I'm on a no upgrade path as I think this phone has reached a reasonable zenith in hardware terms.  Going to see how long it I can go before upgrade fever takes hold or it breaks.


----------



## Winot (Jun 12, 2013)

Underwhelmed by iOS7, but iCloud keychain (encrypted password storage) on OSX 10.9 sounds very useful.


----------



## 2hats (Jun 12, 2013)

Winot said:


> iCloud keychain (encrypted password storage) on OSX 10.9 sounds very useful.


 
...for the NSA?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 16, 2013)

Hehe it happen to happen:


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 19, 2013)

Apple have added HBO GO, WatchESPN, and Sky News to Apple TV.

I don't know which of these are USA only (I presume HBO Go is as you need a cable subscription), but live Sky News is definitely something I dig as it's something I like to leave on in the background when I'm doing other things. Currently I can only do it through a web browser.

http://9to5mac.com/2013/06/19/apple-tv-update-adds-hbo-go-and-watchespn-channels/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2013)

Think only Sky News is UK. The more interesting thing is they're clearly stepping up their TV offering...


----------



## RedDragon (Jul 4, 2013)

Although it's been a couple of years since I was able to take full advantage, I liked the summer 'back to school' offer of a free iPod when you bought a new MacBook - along with the education discount and the iPod's resale value on ebay this offered an excellent discount  . To now replace the free iPod with a £70 app store discount voucher is pretty fucking mean.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jul 10, 2013)

> *Apple guilty of e-books price fixing*
> 
> Apple conspired with publishers to fix the price of electronic books, a US judge rules, but the company says it will appeal against the decision.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23259935


 
So it goes on...


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2013)

pinkychukkles said:


> So it goes on...


 
Apple are like spoilt kids who cant believe or accept any decision that goes their way so they keep on throwing money around until they get the decision they like.



> Judge Cote said: "The plaintiffs have shown that the publisher defendants conspired with each other to eliminate retail price competition in order to raise e-book prices, and that Apple played a central role in facilitating and executing that conspiracy.
> "Without Apple's orchestration of this conspiracy, it would not have succeeded as it did in the spring of 2010," she said.





> Previously, Apple's attorney, Orin Snyder, had told the court that Judge Cote would set a "dangerous precedent" if she concluded that Apple manipulated e-book prices.


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2013)

Elsewhere in the news, it seems that the App Store is full of 'zombie apps':



> But according to Adeven the size of the US firm's app store, which has about 900,000 products, has left many developers struggling to get noticed.
> "579,001 apps out of a total of 888,856 apps in our database are zombies," the analytics firm said.
> It defines zombies as apps which never appear in Apple's master-list of the most downloaded apps worldwide, a chart which runs to over 300,000 places.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23240971

I imagine it's much the same for Android too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2013)

pinkychukkles said:


> So it goes on...


 

Very happy they've been found guilty, here's hoping this holds through appeal. Here's to fiery competition and plummeting ebook prices!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Although it's been a couple of years since I was able to take full advantage, I liked the summer 'back to school' offer of a free iPod when you bought a new MacBook - along with the education discount and the iPod's resale value on ebay this offered an excellent discount  . To now replace the free iPod with a £70 app store discount voucher is pretty fucking mean.


 

I've only known one person to take 'advantage' of it tbh...not really seen it a the huge deal the tech blogs seem to think it is...


----------



## RedDragon (Jul 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've only known one person to take 'advantage' of it tbh...not really seen it a the huge deal the tech blogs seem to think it is...


I saved about £450 off my 1st MBP by using the education discount and flogging the free iPod


----------



## dweller (Jul 23, 2013)

what happens when you have too much apple in your life 

https://vine.co/v/huHUPLnx1dg


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 23, 2013)

dweller said:


> what happens when you have too much apple in your life
> 
> https://vine.co/v/huHUPLnx1dg


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 23, 2013)

Haha what a fucking loon!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 2, 2013)

iPhone 5C looks all but confirmed:


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 8, 2013)

Well, that's my xmas present for editor sorted  

http://iconicbook.com/


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 8, 2013)

Ooh, and a special edition in an Apple II-style (unapologetically?) plastic case for just $300.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, that's my xmas present for editor sorted
> 
> http://iconicbook.com/


Would you like a box of tissues with that?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Would you like a box of tissues with that?


I imagine if you go for the one with a "rich matte finish that has a soft, tactile surface that is luxuriously appealing to the touch" you wouldn't need them.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I imagine if you go for the one with a "rich matte finish that has a soft, tactile surface that is luxuriously appealing to the touch" you wouldn't need them.


I've just come already.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, that's my xmas present for editor sorted
> 
> http://iconicbook.com/



Jesus well that's one way to waste three hundred quid.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

Well...looks like new iPads and OS X incoming...






Link for more.


----------



## elbows (Oct 22, 2013)

Seeing as they will cover multiple things today and there is no longer a single thread that covers all the iPads, I guess I will be posting in this one for now.

I'm looking forward to the new iPad because music making apps are the great joy of the iPad for me. And since with audiobus and now inter-app audio it is possible to use multiple music apps at once, I want more grunt. 

Many of the rumours seem quite reasonable and well fleshed out. So we probably know what the new iPad will look like, and may also tentatively assume that it will be approximately twice as fast as the 4th gen iPad, and 4 times as fast as the iPad 2 and 3rd gen iPad. Rumours conflict as to whether it will have a fingerprint sensor or not. There are also some wacky rumours about smart covers that have a built in keyboard. That rumour is rather vague, but this would be an idea from Microsoft that would be worth nicking in my opinion.

IPad Mini rumours have flip-flopped a lot as to whether the new one will have a retina display, with things pointing more towards the 'will have retina display' recently.

It sounds like GarageBand for iOS will be joining other apple apps in becoming free, at least for purchasers of the newest hardware. And in the case of GarageBand, some in-app store purchases to unlock certain functionality/instruments/samples.

I don't think Mavericks has anything that makes me want to talk about it a lot. I will be interested to see the price of the Mac Pro and any new 4k screen they come out with, no doubt with hilariously high price-tag.

I would like at least one surprise. I'm not sure I will get one, but it seems slightly more likely this time around than many of the launches/announcements of recent years where the rumours often had almost all of it covered. In terms of staying in sync with their competitors, now would be a good time to surprise everyone with something wearable, but there don't seem to have been any rumours about that for some time and the tech may not be ripe yet.

Looking further ahead, some wacky rumours seem to have started about an even larger iPad coming next year, but its too early to do anything but laugh at this for now, though I don't rule it out forever.


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm thinking the 4k will be 4k, with a base Mac Pro thrown in.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I'm thinking the 4k will be 4k, with a base Mac Pro thrown in.


4 grand each, more like.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2013)

Crispy said:


> 4 grand each, more like.


Yep. This is kit aimed at genuine pros, with a price tag to match.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep. This is kit aimed at genuine pros, with a price tag to match.


Curse those non-genuine pros.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Curse those non-genuine pros.


"prosumers"


----------



## sim667 (Oct 22, 2013)

I'd have thought they'd keep the mac pros at the same price level as currently....

£4k is double what they are at the moment.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2013)

Yeah, but the current ones aren't so custom, and have ancient components. Maybe not 4k, but do not expect anything even approaching affordable.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2013)

Crispy said:


> "prosumers"


Exactly. This isn't kit for hobbyists etc. They're machines for people that can't do their work without all that power. The price is basically irellevant, the machines will pay for themselves in the work done on them.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 22, 2013)

With regards to Mavericks I've been using it's since the GM was released it's rock solid.No big features except for tabs in finder,it's a good release.(plus the multiple monitors stuff but that doesn't apply to me)


----------



## sim667 (Oct 22, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, but the current ones aren't so custom, and have ancient components. Maybe not 4k, but do not expect anything even approaching affordable.



Mine was nothing like 4K when I bought it straight after the last refresh in 2008..... it was £1300


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2013)

Crispy said:


> "prosumers"


Not necessarily. Not every fully fledged professional can afford ultra-high end kit, but they can still do a professional job.


----------



## elbows (Oct 22, 2013)

I would kind of expect the Mac Pros to start at 2k+


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2013)

The verge has a article on what apple give away in those invites.  That top of the apple is from the iPad mini launch.  I suspect there are something interesting going on with the covers too.


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 22, 2013)

perhaps they've made covers for the 27" iMac.

Isn't there another company launching something an hour earlier.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I'm thinking the 4k will be 4k, with a base Mac Pro thrown in.



Oh yeah forgot about the Mac Pro thing...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

peterkro said:


> With regards to Mavericks I've been using it's since the GM was released it's rock solid.No big features except for tabs in finder,it's a good release.(plus the multiple monitors stuff but that doesn't apply to me)



On desktop or MacBook?


----------



## peterkro (Oct 22, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> On desktop or MacBook?


MacBook.


----------



## elbows (Oct 22, 2013)

Oh, a video of whooping people at stores for the iPhone 5S&5C launch, just for editor


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

peterkro said:


> MacBook.



You seen any performance bumps or better battery?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

Mavericks is FREE!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2013)

And available today


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

Oh didn't see that bit, video skipped. Well that fucks MS, they had to drop the price on their OS due already, can they go free?


----------



## elbows (Oct 22, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well that fucks MS, they had to drop the price on their OS due already, can they go free?



It wouldn't make sense for them to go free since software & OS's are a major core of their business. Including all their hardware partners who have to pay for windows too.

Its a sensible option for Apple to have done this, and it could make a slight difference to the desirability of macs in some eyes. But it won't kill windows & pc sales much faster than already happens. 

And Microsoft gave away windows 8.1 update for free, so looking at it from that point of view they beat Apple to giving away relatively minor OS update for free. The Windows 8 upgrade was also priced very aggressively for a while, something I took advantage of


----------



## elbows (Oct 22, 2013)

Was someone asleep in the audience shot then?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

elbows said:


> Was someone asleep in the audience shot then?



Heh yeah I think so!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

170 million iPads is nothing to sniff at...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2013)

"iPad Air"


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

Indeed...doesn't have touch ID either...


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 22, 2013)

The macbook 13" retina and a $200 price drop is cool - as well as $200 of the updated MacBook Pro retina 15".


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 25, 2013)

MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Late 2013 Repairability Score: *1 out of 10*
*ifixit*


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 26, 2013)

Mac Pro (project Red) $40 - $60,000 Sotheby's


----------



## teqniq (Oct 26, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Late 2013 Repairability Score: *1 out of 10
> ifixit*



Battery glued in and RAM soldered to the M/B/ 

Most likely this and the other stuff in that article is all intentional on their part so you have to buy another if it fucks up badly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Mac Pro (project Red) $40 - $60,000 Sotheby's



I don't understand how that is designed by Jonny Ive? All it is is red!


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 26, 2013)

And rather than just sell it to one rich twat for $50,000 why not make 5,000 and charge buyers an extra £10 - or more radicle yet donate from their hefty reserves.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 26, 2013)

It's part of the Jony and Marc (Red) Auction: 32 one off items for sale to raise money.

Other items include a stormtroopers helmet from the Star Wars films, a cosmonaut's suit, a replica of Jimmy's scooter from Quadrophenia.

If you think $50k for a Mac Pro is bonkers, take a look at the Leica Rangefinder - a snip at an estimated $500,000-$750,000


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah sure but it's called designed by him. How is changing the colour designing something?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 26, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah sure but it's called designed by him. How is changing the colour designing something?


It says:


> Selected and customised by Jony Ive and Marc Newson for the (RED) Auction 2013. Edition 01/01.


He designed the Mac Pro. He selected that one and customised it by having it painted red. I don't think anyone can argue with that can they?


----------



## elbows (Oct 26, 2013)

edit - oops wrong thread.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 26, 2013)

elbows said:


> The 18Z run of the GFS model has the storm being notably less severe.


Wrong thread?


----------



## elbows (Oct 26, 2013)

Yep, just realised and came back to sort, sorry!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 27, 2013)

Clever approach to piracy by Apple, it's like their iTunes Match thing, allow people to shift their content to iCloud and lock them into a profitable ecosystem.

Now, they'd be on a right winner of they did the same with DVDs...


----------



## sim667 (Nov 6, 2013)

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/06...artners-to-bolster-production-of-ios-devices/

Sounds like apple are cutting down the production of devices through foxconn and getting other companies involved.



> Furthermore, Apple is reportedly said to be unhappy with the labor issues that have surrounded Foxconn over the past few years, along with the repair costs said to have come with the high return rate of defective iPhones: "Hon Hai, also known as Foxconn, has also been under scrutiny for its labor practices, creating a headache for Apple, they said. According to J.P. Morgan analyst Alvin Kwock, the high return rate of defective iPhone 5 smartphones also led to tensions between Apple and Hon Hai over which company would be responsible for repair-work costs."


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 6, 2013)

A move in the right direction particularly if it's motivated by working conditions - as an aside, yesterday I was reading the article Tim Cook wrote in the WSJ in support of the Employment Nondiscrimination Act - as well as thinking he could improving the working conditions for tens of thousands of people if he chose to do so.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> A move in the right direction particularly if it's motivated by working conditions - as an aside, yesterday I was reading the article Tim Cook wrote in the WSJ in support of the Employment Nondiscrimination Act - as well as thinking he could improving the working conditions for tens of thousands of people if he chose to do so.


Given Apple's history I suspect it's far more to do with the high amount of defective handsets rather than a sudden rush of conscience for the exploited workers. It sees that they will now be abandoned to their fate so that Apple can move production elsewhere and generate even more profits for themselves. Ain't capitalism great?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 6, 2013)

editor said:


> Given Apple's history I suspect it's far more to do with the high amount of defective handsets rather than a sudden rush of conscience for the exploited workers. *It sees that they will now be abandoned to their fate so that Apple can move production elsewhere and generate even more profits for themselves.* Ain't capitalism great?


Criticise Apple for using the company, when Apple stop using the company, you criticise them for stopping?

Yes it would be lovely if foxconn would sort out their employment conditions, but they're clearly not that bothered.

I don't think its solely motivated by working conditions, but I think that apple knows that it provokes a level of distaste toward itself (just as it provokes a level of euphoric fanboi-ism toward itself), and cutting down on using foxconn reduces the amount of ammo its giving journalists who are critical of it down quite a lot.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Criticise Apple for using the company, when Apple stop using the company, you criticise them for stopping?
> 
> Yes it would be lovely if foxconn would sort out their employment conditions, but they're clearly not that bothered.
> 
> I don't think its solely motivated by working conditions, but I think that apple knows that it provokes a level of distaste toward itself (just as it provokes a level of euphoric fanboi-ism toward itself), and cutting down on using foxconn reduces the amount of ammo its giving journalists who are critical of it down quite a lot.



That's how you know the criticism isn't credible. People who genuinely care about workers rights would welcome this whatever the reason.


----------



## peterkro (Nov 8, 2013)

The new Mail update for Mavericks breaks GPG.Reinstall GPG and all will be good again.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 11, 2013)

Apple maps recovery? Guardian


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Apple maps recovery? Guardian


It's by Charles Arthur. Apple fanboy #1. 

Best user comment:


> iOS Maps is still an inferior product. Any decent tech news today?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2013)

peterkro said:


> The new Mail update for Mavericks breaks GPG.Reinstall GPG and all will be good again.


 

Ok then...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 12, 2013)

Charles Arthur is a joke.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2013)

Whats GPG?


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 12, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> Charles Arthur is a joke.


He's a fanboy for sure, but he didn't pluck the maps data out of his arse.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 12, 2013)

So my teenage daughter wants an iPad for Christmas, she loves using Garage Band, painting, playing games on the internet, iPlayer, fashion, doing homework research and things like that.

Would an iPad mini be ok, or is it wort shelling out the £80 for an iPad Air?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2013)

How likely is she to lose it?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Whats GPG?


GNU Privacy Guard - open version of PGP public-key encryption - http://www.gnupg.org/
Mac tools for GPG - https://gpgtools.org/


----------



## Crispy (Nov 12, 2013)

By all reports, the light weight and slightly reduced size of the Air make it much more portable than the old model. Garageband and other creative apps really benefit from the big screen. The mini is better suited to consumption.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> How likely is she to lose it?



Not very likely, she won't be taking it to school for instance.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 12, 2013)

Crispy said:


> By all reports, the light weight and slightly reduced size of the Air make it much more portable than the old model. Garageband and other creative apps really benefit from the big screen. The mini is better suited to consumption.



Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Can you attach a keyboard to an iPad? Also, if you write something in Pages, can it be printed easily, or exported to Microsoft Word?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 12, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
> 
> Can you attach a keyboard to an iPad? Also, if you write something in Pages, can it be printed easily, or exported to Microsoft Word?


Yes. Any bluetooth keyboard works, and there are lots of purpose-built ones.
Yes. With either an Airprint compatible printer, or Airprint software running on a computer with printer.
Yes. It's not the slickest experience. There are lots of other apps worth looking at with better Office support.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 12, 2013)

It's going to be replacing her Netbook, which was a complete waste of £200. So I hope she can use it for homework (yeah, dreaming I know). The Netbook was way too slow, and such an unenjoyable experience, it's going on eBay to help me pay for the iPad.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 12, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> So my teenage daughter wants an iPad for Christmas, she loves using Garage Band, painting, playing games on the internet, iPlayer, fashion, doing homework research and things like that.
> 
> Would an iPad mini be ok, or is it wort shelling out the £80 for an iPad Air?


The thing I hated most about the regular iPad was its weight, the new Air feels like it floats while holding it.  I'd have no problem going for the air over the mini.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2013)

The iPad mini retina went on sale today.  After all the posturing about possible lack of stock, there are still being sold on 1-3 days to supply. 

So I bought one. Now I have to decide to either sell the Mini or give it to my Mum for Xmas.


----------



## elbows (Nov 13, 2013)

I assume you mean lack of stock rather than lack of sales? Time will tell.

Meanwhile a benchmark is out which indicates that the retina mini is clocked slightly slower than the iPad air, but the difference isn't huge and given the overall grunt of this generation of cpus probably shouldn't put anyone off at all.

Also unsurprisingly given that the original mini was really a shrunken iPad 2, the leap in performance between the original and the retina model is rather large.

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/11/12...ith-5x-better-performance-than-original-mini/


----------



## Sunray (Nov 13, 2013)

yes, lack of stock, edited.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> Charles Arthur is a joke.



This. How that guy become the tech editor for the Guardian I'll never know.


----------



## neonwilderness (Nov 16, 2013)

Has anyone had any problems with Chrome since upgrading to Mavericks?  I'm finding it's sometimes a bit laggy so I've started using Safari again for the time being.  I suppose I'll get to see if the claims of it being so great are true


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 21, 2013)

A visual update on the Mother Ship.  Guardian


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 21, 2013)

Have to say that really is a stunning piece of architecture...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 21, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have to say that really is a stunning piece of architecture...


I imagine Samsung and HTC are busy planning their own round headquarters as we speak.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 21, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I imagine Samsung and HTC are busy planning their own round headquarters as we speak.



LOL! Yeah in gold too.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 27, 2013)

That looks like the sort of building I've fought running battles in and eventually blown up in many a generic FPS.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 27, 2013)

It's a stupid design if you ask me. Inflexible in terms of future expansion. Poor interconnectivity (you can't take a straight line from one side to the other without going outdoors). It's typical Apple product design - practicality sacrificed on the altar of a single overriding aesthetic statement.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 27, 2013)

How scary must it have been as an architect to have Sir Jony tell you "don't see me as a client, rather see me more of a colleague"


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> It's a stupid design if you ask me. Inflexible in terms of future expansion. Poor interconnectivity (you can't take a straight line from one side to the other without going outdoors). It's typical Apple product design - practicality sacrificed on the altar of a single overriding aesthetic statement.


I'd imagine there's a significant sub-terrain element.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I imagine Samsung and HTC are busy planning their own round headquarters as we speak.


Yes! because Apple invented the round HQ didn't they? What genius!

They're always busy changing everything, again, with all these brand new, never-seen-before features.

Oh, hang on...


----------



## Crispy (Nov 27, 2013)

You can see exactly the problem with the donut floor plan there. They obviously needed more space and it had to be tacked on with outbuildings, because you can't extend a shape with no ends.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> You can see exactly the problem with the donut floor plan there. They obviously needed more space and it had to be tacked on with outbuildings, because you can't extend a shape with no ends.


I prefer the look of GCHQ anyway. Looks a bit like the ELO spacecraft.


----------



## souljacker (Nov 27, 2013)

The GCHQ building is built with only security in mind though. Each 'ring' houses a higher level of security than the one before it meaning that you can only go as far in as your clearance allows. I think the Pentagon is designed in the same way.

Whereas that Apple building looks like its designed to ensure you never leave as everything you could need, including outdoor space, is included. Which is a bit creepy (although par for the course for big corporations).


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2013)

By comparison, here's how Samsung's US HQ will look like. I think I prefer it. Less forbidding.






Although this view is a bit mad.







http://www.nbbj.com/work/samsung-america-headquarters/


----------



## souljacker (Nov 27, 2013)

That is an ugly building. My opinion may be clouded due to their inability to sort out the Jellybean upgrade on thousands of customers S3's though. 

Fuck Samsung!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> It's a stupid design if you ask me. Inflexible in terms of future expansion. Poor interconnectivity (you can't take a straight line from one side to the other without going outdoors). It's typical Apple product design - practicality sacrificed on the altar of a single overriding aesthetic statement.



That's why it's brilliant if forces people to interact with each other. And had fantastic natural light too. It's genius architecture...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 27, 2013)

souljacker said:


> That is an ugly building. My opinion may be clouded due to their inability to sort out the Jellybean upgrade on thousands of customers S3's though.
> 
> Fuck Samsung!



That Samsung building looks like something a weapons maker would make...


----------



## Crispy (Nov 27, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's why it's brilliant if forces people to interact with each other. And had fantastic natural light too. It's genius architecture...


Neither of those qualities have anything to do with, or are exclusive to, a donut-shaped floor plan.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Neither of those qualities have anything to do with, or are exclusive to, a donut-shaped floor plan.


No, but it's BRILLIANT because it's made by Apple! This building will surely change how people interact with each. Its unashamedly round.


----------



## elbows (Nov 27, 2013)

The Samsung building reminds me of a multi-storey carpark. The Apple building doesn't get my juices flowing either.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 27, 2013)

elbows said:


> The Samsung building reminds me of a multi-storey carpark. The Apple building doesn't get my juices flowing either.


That's because most of it _is_ a multistory carpark. That whole block with the green lattice facade.



This is an ugly building, but the layout is slightly more sane than Apple's.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Poor interconnectivity (you can't take a straight line from one side to the other without going outdoors).


What's the ideal form then, maintaining the same maximum distance from any point to an external wall, in terms of average walking distance from point to point? I want to see the maths.

P.S. I'm not sure going outdoors is such a hardship in California anyway.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 27, 2013)

teuchter said:


> What's the ideal form then, maintaining the same maximum distance from any point to an external wall, in terms of average walking distance from point to point? I want to see the maths.



Some sort of branching structure. No maths. Sorry.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 27, 2013)

Apple Campus plans (PDFs):  part one  and part two


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Some sort of branching structure. No maths. Sorry.



Ok you'll have to get an example that doesn't really explain very much. I love architecture (came very close to being one) this building is brilliant because of its design and would be still brilliant no matter who it was build for.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 27, 2013)

If I get some time tomorrow, I'll actually do the maths 
I am quite prepared to prove myself wrong, in which case I'll eat my previous words.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> If I get some time tomorrow, I'll actually do the maths
> I am quite prepared to prove myself wrong, in which case I'll eat my previous words.



Heh no worries mate, genuinely interested (in topic and because it's you with your Lego/ Minecraftian ways!).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 27, 2013)

If the circle thing is so bad how does the Pentagon work than? That's famous for being fucking huge, yet you can get from one part to any other in no more than 7 minutes.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If the circle thing is so bad how does the Pentagon work than? That's famous for being fucking huge, yet you can get from one part to any other in no more than 7 minutes.


The hole in the middle is nowhere near as vast as Apple's "brilliant" building, for starters.


----------



## RedDragon (Dec 10, 2013)

Have we discussed iBeacon?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 11, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Have we discussed iBeacon?



Not sure we have, now would probably be a good time to as well.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 11, 2013)

Crispy said:


> You can see exactly the problem with the donut floor plan there. They obviously needed more space and it had to be tacked on with outbuildings, because you can't extend a shape with no ends.



Yes you can.  Its not a 2d building.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 18, 2013)

New Mac Pro is out. £2.5k for just the box


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2013)

twentythreedom said:


> New Mac Pro is out. £2.5k for just the box


Unashamedly high priced.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2013)

Wow.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 18, 2013)

How much for the box with a Mac Pro inside?

I might go for the low end "Photo of a Mac Pro box".


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 18, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> How much for the box with a Mac Pro inside?
> 
> I might go for the low end "Photo of a Mac Pro box".


You buy the box for £2499, the Mac Pro is thrown in free


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 18, 2013)

You could list one on eBay - Mac Pro, box only, no keyboard, monitor etc


----------



## RedDragon (Dec 18, 2013)

How much was the base cheese-grater MacPro?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2013)

editor said:


> Unashamedly high priced.


Price up a similarly spec'd PC.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 18, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Price up a similarly spec'd PC.


Quite, a similarly specced Dell is more expensive.(and fucking huge)


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Price up a similarly spec'd PC.


Do you believe that the Apple Mac Pro represents the absolute best possible value for money, then? How do you think of its connectivity and internal expandability/user upgradeability options compare?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2013)

editor said:


> Do you believe that the Apple Mac Pro represents the absolute best possible value for money, then? How do you think of its connectivity and internal expandability/user upgradeability options compare?


I think that if you're the kind of user that machine is aimed at then a) It's probably the only serious option and b) the price is basically irrelevant


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think that if you're the kind of user that machine is aimed at then a) It's probably the only serious option and b) the price is basically irrelevant


What kind of user might that be and what kind of jobs can this machine do that no others can do 'seriously' enough?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2013)

editor said:


> What kind of user might that be and what kind of jobs can this machine do that no others can do 'seriously' enough?


Professional film makers, professional music studios etc etc


----------



## RedDragon (Dec 18, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Professional film makers, professional music studios etc etc


I'm just a potential poser and would love one, I would give it pride of place on my desk and woe betide anyone tossing scrunched-up paper into it.


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Professional film makers, professional music studios etc etc


I know you seem a bit dazzled by all things Apple these days, but there really is no shortage of professional film makers, professional music studios etc who are all capable of producing top quality work without the need for 'serious' Apple computers.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 18, 2013)

It's not really a huge amount in corporate terms, which is who will be buying it. Maybe a week's coke bill. I have a feeling I won't be able to swing one in my job though


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Price up a similarly spec'd PC.



Quit your common sense and reasonable attitude, we don't want that shit round here!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 19, 2013)

editor said:


> I know you seem a bit dazzled by all things Apple these days, but there really is no shortage of professional film makers, professional music studios etc who all capable of producing top quality work without the need for 'serious' Apple computers.


Profesional recording studios without a Shiny Fruit Product sitting in the middle of it? They are a rare thing indeed.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Profesional recording studios without a Shiny Fruit Product sitting in the middle of it? They are a rare thing indeed.


Are they really? I must have imagined the ones I've seen using Windows. How about film and video editing/rendering/production?



> Most modern studios rely on Mac or Windows computers. In general, Macs and Windows PCs are equally capable of recording and editing audio and MIDI.
> http://www.presonus.com/community/learn/computer-recording-basics


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 19, 2013)

editor said:


> Are they really? I must have imagined the ones I've seen using Windows.


You couldn't even run Pro Tools on a Windows machine until a few years back. The incentive for people to switch from Macs to Windows is...what, exactly?


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You couldn't even run Pro Tools on a Windows machine until a few years back.


Well, there's a red herring and a half. The point being that professional recording studios can function perfectly well without the presence of a precious Mac, and many do.


----------



## RedDragon (Dec 19, 2013)

It's Christmas, couldn't we organise a football match or something.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 19, 2013)

The red herring is thinking that the price really matters that much at all in the market the Mac Pro is intended for. 2K, 3K, 4K? You can spend that much on software. If it does the job well, and the operator prefers using it over an alternative system, then it gets bought. If it cost $20,000 then maybe there'd be an argument to have. But it's in the same ballpark as other high-end workstation computers.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 19, 2013)

http://www.urban75.net/forums/search/search?keywords=mac+vs+pc&title_only=1

Should anyone else really want to go fight those battles again.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> http://www.urban75.net/forums/search/search?keywords=mac vs pc&title_only=1
> 
> Should anyone else really want to go fight those battles again.


I've no interest in a PC vs Mac battle. As I have repeatedly said, they're both very capable platforms and both can perform very well indeed in a professional recording studio.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2013)

Crispy said:


> The red herring is thinking that the price really matters that much at all in the market the Mac Pro is intended for. 2K, 3K, 4K? You can spend that much on software. If it does the job well, and the operator prefers using it over an alternative system, then it gets bought. If it cost $20,000 then maybe there'd be an argument to have. But it's in the same ballpark as other high-end workstation computers.



Yep only a fool would focus on price for a product like this.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2013)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> It's Christmas, couldn't we organise a football match or something.



Heh innit, same old boring stuff from the usual suspect. What ya gonna do eh?


----------



## elbows (Dec 20, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> How much was the base cheese-grater MacPro?



Not sure about more recently but I'm pretty sure when I got one on credit in 2008 it was around £1899 inc vat.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2013)

The Guardian lists how expensive a full spec Mac Pro can be: http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...mac-pro-expensive-full-spec-model-cost-extras


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 20, 2013)

Will it run crysis?


----------



## RedDragon (Dec 20, 2013)

editor said:


> The Guardian lists how expensive a full spec Mac Pro can be: http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...mac-pro-expensive-full-spec-model-cost-extras


The comments also contain example costings for alternative workstations.


> You can do the sums here.
> Armari offer 12 core dual Xeon processors and similar AMD graphics. 512 Gb of memory here will set you back £6,500!!!
> Once you've sorted an equivalent spec here the Mac may seem like good value!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 20, 2013)

editor said:


> The Guardian lists how expensive a full spec Mac Pro can be: http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...mac-pro-expensive-full-spec-model-cost-extras


Once again, so fucking what? _The price is not an issue for the target market_.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Once again, so fucking what? _The price is not an issue for the target market_.


Calm down, ffs. I just posted a link to a relevant article.


----------



## RedDragon (Dec 20, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Once again, so fucking what? _The price is not an issue for the target market_.


That might be my fault for asking the price of the previous model and it does appear there has been a significant price increase.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> That might be my fault for asking the price of the previous model and it does appear there has been a significant price increase.



You're not responsible for the clearly trolling behaviour at work here mate. Anyone can see that the price isn't an issue at all and to suggest it is is nothing but idiocy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Will it run crysis?



Funny my first thought was how well games would play on it, not sure my other half would let me get a £20,000 gaming rig though!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 20, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Funny my first thought was how well games would play on it, not sure my other half would let me get a £20,000 gaming rig though!



Was just messing around. If gaming was your main thing, I'm sure you could build much better. The drivers for Mac mean you'll get better performance under windows anyway.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2013)

Yeah but then you'd have to use windoze.


----------



## elbows (Dec 20, 2013)

I can't vouch for these numbers myself but I thought it was an entertaining exchange that had a few parallels with the conversation here.



> *Marco Arment* ‏@marcoarment19 Dec
> How about upgrades? 8-core, 64 GB, 512 GB. Mac Pro: $6,999 Closest HP Z620 config: $9,719
> 
> Marco Arment ‏@marcoarment
> ...



I will be interested to see whether this Apple Pro stuff further helps gain momentum for 'general purpose computing on the GPU'. The evolution and adoption of this stuff has been somewhat slow, especially beyond a few key types of application. It would certainly improve the value of such workstations (be they the Mac Pro or a Windows setup) if the full grunt was unlocked for a greater range of professional uses. Some of the music blogs/videos I look at had somewhat unrealistic and 'detached from xeon reality' ideas about quite how much more powerful these Mac Pro's are, and hard work by developers putting the GPU to use for music apps is one way to somewhat reduce that gap.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2013)

Anyone seen any of the videos of how it handles 4K video playback in editing in real time? Someone insane power this tube has.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2013)

Here's the one I was talking about: http://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/20...al-time-4k-effect-rendering-900mbs-readwrite/


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 21, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah but then you'd have to use windoze.



And? You're like that guy off the Fast Show who agrees with everyone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 21, 2013)

You're like that little creature that's sits giggling on Jabba the Huts shoulder. See I can be as idiotically infantile as you, it's easy.


----------



## elbows (Dec 24, 2013)

Sounds like some Mac Pro reviews actually managed to dwell on the point about software utilising the GPU's.

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/23...dware-but-few-software-titles-take-advantage/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 24, 2013)

elbows said:


> Sounds like some Mac Pro reviews actually managed to dwell on the point about software utilising the GPU's.
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/23...dware-but-few-software-titles-take-advantage/



It's interesting how software that's optimized to run on hardware runs better isn't it?


----------



## strung out (Dec 30, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Price up a similarly spec'd PC.


Someone's done that - the Mac Pro is much cheaper at both top end and lower end http://www.futurelooks.com/new-apple-mac-pro-can-build-better-cheaper-pc-diy-style/ and http://www.futurelooks.com/can-build-better-entry-level-apple-mac-pro-via-pc-diy-cheaper/


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2013)

strung out said:


> Someone's done that - the Mac Pro is much cheaper at both top end and lower end http://www.futurelooks.com/new-apple-mac-pro-can-build-better-cheaper-pc-diy-style/ and http://www.futurelooks.com/can-build-better-entry-level-apple-mac-pro-via-pc-diy-cheaper/


You must be reading a different link to me:


> Let’s not forget, that in the PC DIY world, there’s always more than one way to get the performance that you want, at a much lower price. From overclocking components, to using alternate non-professional grade components, we could easily drop the ECC memory, Xeon processor, and workstation grade cards, and come up with a system that is literally HALF the price of what we’ve priced it out at, with similar or greater performance.
> 
> And that’s where the value of PC DIY comes in because at the end of the day, no one will know whether you made your masterpiece film on a Mac or a PC (unless you tell them). Then you can even take a break from professional apps and play games with it.
> 
> ...





> So is there a scenario where a PC DIY system could be constructed as a better value than the New Mac Pro? Definitely.
> 
> With the choice of components and hardware, we don’t need to buy $3400 AMD FirePro graphics cards. In fact, as we mentioned, NVIDIA’s Quadro options may be a better fit for Windows applications (at nearly half the price).
> 
> ...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 30, 2013)

"Non professional grade components"


----------



## elbows (Dec 30, 2013)

editor said:


> You must be reading a different link to me:



No, beyond the part you have quoted the articles are very clear that at both the low end and high end spec, the Mac Pro is cheaper than the DIY PC option with equivalent spec. They acknowledge that for many of the optional upgrades from Apple, such as RAM, there is no longer the hefty price premium that was often referred to in the past as the Apple Tax.

There are two areas where those articles find ways to make the PC options attractive. Upgradeability, and the question as to whether workstation-class hardware actually gets you the best bang for your buck. It is certainly true that powerful non-Xeon machines, using consumer rather than workstation class GPUs can be constructed for much less money, as has always been the case. But this is a classic reality that is not actually defined along Apple vs Windows lines at all. Its about whether workstation-class pro hardware in general is a bit of a rip-off, and whether those on a tighter budget can get away with a spec that is priced differently for a different market. Apple didn't invent the price premium for workstation-class hardware, and attempts to talk about the Mac Pro without being honest about the pricing structure of workstation hardware are frankly stupid.


----------



## elbows (Dec 30, 2013)

For example, at my place of work the new youthful IT team splurged many thousands of pounds on a workstation-class PC. It was for 3D rendering but they had absolutely no appreciation of the devilish detail of the large price-jump for workstation hardware, and what they were actually getting for that additional money. They expected some kind of stellar leap in performance, and were sorely disappointed. They were looking at things entirely from a bang-for-buck point of view, and felt ripped off as a result.

Well, they would of had exactly the same experience if they'd spent all that money on a Mac Pro rather than the windows machine they bought.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2013)

elbows said:


> No, beyond the part you have quoted the articles are very clear that at both the low end and high end spec, the Mac Pro is cheaper than the DIY PC option with equivalent spec.


I'm quoting from the conclusions of both pieces and I posted up a fair bit of context too, but feel free to see it as something completely different if you like.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2013)

strung out said:


> Someone's done that - the Mac Pro is much cheaper at both top end and lower end http://www.futurelooks.com/new-apple-mac-pro-can-build-better-cheaper-pc-diy-style/ and http://www.futurelooks.com/can-build-better-entry-level-apple-mac-pro-via-pc-diy-cheaper/



A couple grand isn't really a thing at this level. And has been said elsewhere people in this pro market aren't going to be sniffy about their investment. 

Reading the reviews of the Mac Pro it looks like an excellent machine at great value for any company that needs this type of set up.

Not sure what else needs to be said tbh...


----------



## elbows (Dec 30, 2013)

editor said:


> I'm quoting from the conclusions of both pieces and I posted up a fair bit of context too, but feel free to see it as something completely different if you like.



You quoted one aspect of their conclusions, the stuff that is actually all about whether workstations in general are good value and whether there are cheaper alternatives. People here were asking for prices of equivalent PC hardware, and that is most certainly covered by different parts of the article to the ones you posted. You suggested someone must be reading a different article to you, but in fact you are the one who seems incapable of having a discussion about workstation-class hardware without deliberately muddying the waters to suit your own bias.


----------



## elbows (Dec 30, 2013)

I mean really, is it that hard? The Mac Pro is a good value workstation that is competitively priced for this segment. Upgradeability & add-on costs being the largest complication/unknown (need to see if prices of various thunderbolt-based add ons decrease over time).

Then there is the question of whether workstations in general are good value compared to powerful non-workstation class hardware. It's an old question that does not suddenly become hugely more relevant due to the new Mac Pro. It would grow in relevance if Apples ability to whip up customer desire resulted in a large swathe of people who won't actually be terribly well served by workstation hardware, end up desperately wanting to own the Mac Pro. I'm sure there will be some, but most won't have the luxury of making this mistake.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2013)

elbows said:


> You quoted one aspect of their conclusions [snip]...


That's right and it's the one that balanced the rather one-sided claim made in the original post. All I've done is quoted the article, so if you have any problem with that, take it up with the author!

Edit to add: I'd love to live in this rarefied world where a couple of extra grand per machine is supposedly just a mere trifle.


----------



## elbows (Dec 30, 2013)

editor said:


> That's right and it's the one that balanced the rather one-sided claim made in the original post. All I've done is quoted the article, so if you have any problem with that, take it up with the author!
> 
> Edit to add: I'd love to live in this rarefied world where a couple of extra grand per machine is supposedly just a mere trifle.



I'm not suggesting its a mere trifle, its at the very heart of the point I keep bringing up about workstation prices and whether they are worth it for all users.

Nor do I have a problem with those articles taken as a whole, since they cover both aspects. 

I do not consider the points made by others to be one-sided at all. A like-for-like comparison of the Mac Pro and equivalent PC workstation hardware was requested, and these and other articles delivered the answers to those questions rather well.  

It is completely fine that you, like many millions of other people, have no sensible, good-value use for workstation hardware. It's a bit of a different world, one that carries a price premium. But for once thats not of Apples creation, no Apple Tax to rant about this time. The failure to acknowledge this clearly is winding me up. It seems very much to me that you were expecting to have a straightforward argument about many professionals in all segments using Windows, and understandably moaning when people tried to suggest that such and such a segment of professionals mostly all use Macs. But this added dimension, that there exists a class of hardware called the workstation that is in a different world of pricing, seems to be beyond you. Perhaps you were expecting the Mac Pro to be a rip-off even by workstation standards, but it obviously isn't and so we find ourselves picking over some very silly scraps of flesh.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 31, 2013)

For me the biggest problem would be justification. I'm sure it's great if you need that kind of power, and there are comparably priced systems for that kind of work horse required power. 
I can do alot of my work on a raspberry pi, I have a MacBook Pro as my main system at home, a dedicated server I rent for personal use, some piece of shit hp that was given to me as some sort of joke at work, and then for big data analytics we have servers in data Centres. I've also been told to leave off the hands on stuff  so I really couldn't justify it. Not to my boss and not to myself. That's not to say I wouldn't say no to a free one.


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## editor (Dec 31, 2013)

elbows said:


> I do not consider the points made by others to be one-sided at all.


Do you believe that "the Mac Pro is *much cheaper* at both top end and lower end", yes? That was the claim made here and the article certainly doesn't say that.


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## fractionMan (Dec 31, 2013)

They did a like for like build of a fully tricked out mac pro and a basic one.  Both builds were cheaper buying from apple than building them yourself.

*$11530 vs $9599 
$3994 vs $2999
*
I don't think apple are intending to shift these for a massive profit, but to keep that sector of their market alive.

The prices aren't that far out though.  What you get with the DIY build is more options, more upgradability.  Although I'd say upgradability is a bit of a myth when it comes to hardware like this - other than adding ram or SSDs nobody actually does it from what I can tell.

Personally I'd rather develop software on a a mac than windows or linux box, especially the kind of software you'd be writing for these kinds of machines so the operating system makes them even better value for what they are imo. 

I can think of a fair few things to do with poker AI I'd love one of these for if apple fancy shipping me one for my positive post


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 31, 2013)

Still surprised anyone is wasting time over a clear non issue! It's obvious that the Ed weird corporate obsession means he can't see the wood for the trees...either that or he's simply earning his thirty pieces of silver?


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## Crispy (Dec 31, 2013)

I had a hand in specifiying a new machine for my use at work and I went for a "workstation". It was quite a bit more expensive than a similarly powerful "consumer" grade computer, but had the following advantages: The graphics card and drivers are optimised for numerical precision and CAD, which means my specialised software can make better use of it. The RAM is ECC protected, which removes one potential cause of crashes and data corruption. The system case is well engineered, sturdy and attractive with good airflow and access to the insides. Even my boss was convinced of the worth of these things, when considered over the life of the machine, and he's a tight git.

In some lines of work, those advantages (among others) are worth paying the premium for. It looks like Apple have designed a computer that compares favourably on price with similar machines.


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## elbows (Dec 31, 2013)

editor said:


> Do you believe that "the Mac Pro is *much cheaper* at both top end and lower end", yes? That was the claim made here and the article certainly doesn't say that.



The articles in question were talking about the high and low ends of the available Mac pro spec, i.e. the range of xeon workstation specs. They were not afraid to admit defeat at both ends of the available spec, nor were they afraid to express great disappointment that they failed. For whatever reason they really hoped to do it better DIY style, and they were openly sad that they failed. I'm not familiar with the site so I don't know exactly what angle they are approaching this all from. Anyway they have another article now which looks again at upgrade possibilities in light of a hardware teardown someone else did:

http://www.futurelooks.com/new-mac-pro-can-cant-upgrade-apples-latest-creation/

If you wish to choose a different meaning for the term 'lower end', escaping the restrictions of the workstation segment, then of course there are much cheaper options available, nobody has disputed that. I spent just over a grand on a DIY i7 PC in early 2012 and in terms of overall performance it beats the Mac Pro I got in 2008, although not by a staggering amount. It's impossible for me to say whether I'll ever be in the market for a workstation again, especially as my finances are knackered. In theory one reason I would be prepared to shell out for something like the Mac Pro is if it really is quiet, since under load even laptops still annoy me with their fan noises.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 3, 2014)

So non haters what's your predictions for Apple's product line in 2014? 

I'm not convinced we'll see loads of radical new categories tbh, reckon it's more likely we'll see the current line up being iterated hard (like the iPad to iPad air and Touch ID) and maybe one new thing (currently I'd bet on the watch thing over a proper TV)...


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## sim667 (Jan 6, 2014)

When I weighed up the pros and cons of buying my mac pro against building a hackintosh back in 2008, it turned out building a hackintosh was a much more expensive route.

That said the new mac pro's aren't as expandable, so honestly dont know which route I'll go when I upgrade my mac pro.


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## pesh (Jan 6, 2014)

sim667 said:


> When I weighed up the pros and cons of buying my mac pro against building a hackintosh back in 2008, it turned out building a hackintosh was a much more expensive route.


really? i built one in 2009 for about £400... still working just fine.


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## sim667 (Jan 6, 2014)

pesh said:


> really? i built one in 2009 for about £400... still working just fine.


 
You've been scavenging parts haven't you? 

I was also concerned about my ability to keep it all running properly with software updates etc


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## pesh (Jan 6, 2014)

nope, was all brand new


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## sim667 (Jan 6, 2014)

pesh said:


> nope, was all brand new


 
hmm.... Im not convinced, I've spent £1500 on my mac pro including upgrades over the years. I think when I was looking it was going to cost me about that just to build the hackintosh, but then I was just following some instructions to cost it up and not looking around much.

But the hassle of it going wrong without warranty, having to check software updates would work etc just killed it for me in the end. TBH in 2008 I decided that the mac pro was the only mac desktop machine worth buying, emacs were old and not expandable, and imacs were overpriced and not expandable..... both had terrible screens (imacs still do have terrible screens).

Infact all mac screens are just terrible.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 6, 2014)

I just configured one on the apple website.  I can get 0% finance.  
I can also buy a summer house for the same price. I know what I should buy instead.


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## pesh (Jan 6, 2014)

lets see the summer house


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jan 6, 2014)

As an example - http://www.kolonihavertilsalg.dk/VisAnnonce.aspx?id=507


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## fractionMan (Jan 6, 2014)

I'd buy a cheaper summer house and a macbook pro.  Sod the workstation.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> I just configured one on the apple website.  I can get 0% finance.
> I can also buy a summer house for the same price. I know what I should buy instead.



0%? Lend us yer account.


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## Crispy (Jan 6, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So non haters what's your predictions for Apple's product line in 2014?



iPad Pro. 12-13" iPad with more RAM, faster CPU and demountable keyboard.


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## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> iPad Pro. 12-13" iPad with more RAM, faster CPU and demountable keyboard.


Following industry trends then


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## sim667 (Jan 6, 2014)

iWatch


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## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

sim667 said:


> iWatch


There's already been several moronic tech articles written going on about how the (non existent and unannounced) iWatch is the "one to beat."


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> iPad Pro. 12-13" iPad with more RAM, faster CPU and demountable keyboard.



Yeah I can see that. Apple typically moves after everyone else and refines what's available...it's basically a disrupter start up dressed in corporate golliath clothing.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

sim667 said:


> iWatch



I'm less convinced by this. Still can't see what problem it solved. With TV and a big tablet there's a clear problem that needs disrupting or evolving...


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## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> .it's basically a disrupter start up dressed in corporate golliath clothing.


What on earth are you on about now?


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## Crispy (Jan 6, 2014)

editor said:


> There's already been several moronic tech articles written going on about how the (non existent and unannounced) iWatch is the "one to beat."





editor said:


> Following industry trends then





Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah I can see that. Apple typically moves after everyone else and refines what's available.



All true. Apple has had less than a handful of genuine "firsts". It is not an innovator, it's a refiner and filter of existing ideas. The smart watch is an idea older than computers, but all such devices so far produced have been terrible (correct me if I'm wrong). I have no doubt that Apple are working on one, but they won't release it until it actually does the job well (and tightly defines what that job is, too). I actually don't think that will be for some time yet. Batteries and screens aren't good enough yet.


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## Crispy (Jan 6, 2014)

editor said:


> What on earth are you on about now?


the Mac was not the first computer with a GUI
the iPod was not the first hard drive MP3 player
the iPhone was not the first touchscreen phone
the iPad was not the first tablet

but all can be considered as products that came to define their categories, by distilling the core functionality and polishing it to a shine.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> All true. Apple has had less than a handful of genuine "firsts". It is not an innovator, it's a refiner and filter of existing ideas. The smart watch is an idea older than computers, but all such devices so far produced have been terrible (correct me if I'm wrong). I have no doubt that Apple are working on one, but they won't release it until it actually does the job well (and tightly defines what that job is, too). I actually don't think that will be for some time yet. Batteries and screens aren't good enough yet.



Yep, agreed calling Apple innovative is a misnomer. And agree there have been many silly articles written about Smart Watches and their potential...


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## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> All true. Apple has had less than a handful of genuine "firsts". It is not an innovator, it's a refiner and filter of existing ideas. The smart watch is an idea older than computers, but all such devices so far produced have been terrible (correct me if I'm wrong). I have no doubt that Apple are working on one, but they won't release it until it actually does the job well (and tightly defines what that job is, too). I actually don't think that will be for some time yet. Batteries and screens aren't good enough yet.


The only smart watch concept that holds any possible appeal for me is the rumoured 'Google Now' one which sounds like it might actually be useful.


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## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> ...
> but all can be considered as products that came to define their categories, by distilling the core functionality and polishing it to a shine.


I was referring to the bit about Apple being a "disrupter start up dressed in corporate golliath clothing."


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> the Mac was not the first computer with a GUI
> the iPod was not the first hard drive MP3 player
> the iPhone was not the first touchscreen phone
> the iPad was not the first tablet
> ...



Yep. Clearly most of those disrupted the conventional tech order at the time. And disruption is something usually done by start ups (a little baffled why anyone needs this explaining tbh)....


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## sim667 (Jan 6, 2014)

editor said:


> There's already been several moronic tech articles written going on about how the (non existent and unannounced) iWatch is the "one to beat."


 


Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm less convinced by this. Still can't see what problem it solved. With TV and a big tablet there's a clear problem that needs disrupting or evolving...


 
ets not forget, samsung have come up with a watch that pairs with one of their phones..... I'd be surprised if apple isn't far behind..... bearing in mind that the ipod nano 6th generation isn't much bigger than a watch anyway (i think you could even buy watch straps for them).

What it was missing was bluetooth and the ability to control an iphone.

Im hoping they'll do an overhaul of the appletv, its one product I think they need to work on more, I literally just use mine for airplay and netflix now tbh.

Mind you the last few plex updates (that I use for media, and airplay to my tele) have been atrocious and pretty much unusable. Im starting to look for alternatives.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

sim667 said:


> ets not forget, samsung have come up with a watch that pairs with one of their phones..... I'd be surprised if apple isn't far behind..... bearing in mind that the ipod nano 6th generation isn't much bigger than a watch anyway (i think you could even buy watch straps for them).
> 
> What it was missing was bluetooth and the ability to control an iphone.
> 
> ...



Hmm yeah but the Samsung thing was terrible. Apple doesn't usually jump into a market just because someone else is, they do it to extend their ecosystem with new hardware.


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## sim667 (Jan 6, 2014)

Sorry, i mean the sony one.

Seems to be quite popular


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> iPad Pro. 12-13" iPad with more RAM, faster CPU and demountable keyboard.


If this happens what will be more interesting is what they then do with OSX.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Sorry, i mean the sony one.
> 
> Seems to be quite popular



Yeah Sony tend to design better quality products generally...


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## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

I predict an almighty u-turn from some posters when Apple inevitably release a touchscreen laptop, tablet/notebook hybrid.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

editor said:


> I predict an almighty u-turn from some posters when Apple inevitably release a touchscreen laptop, tablet/notebook hybrid.


If they release something that's just a copy of stuff already available I'll eat my shoes.


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## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If they release something that's just a copy of stuff already available I'll eat my shoes.


Oh I'm sure you'll be able to justify the "difference," just like the bigger iPhone and smaller iPad were just so incredibly _unbelievably_ different to what had gone before.


----------



## RedDragon (Jan 6, 2014)

editor said:


> I predict an almighty u-turn from some posters when Apple inevitably release a touchscreen laptop, tablet/notebook hybrid


A combination of laptop/desktop/tablet is the obvious next step for the Apple arsenal.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

editor said:


> Oh I'm sure you'll be able to justify the "difference," just like the bigger iPhone and smaller iPad were just so incredibly _unbelievably_ different to what had gone before.


The iPhone and iPad _were_ different to stuff that had gone before, that's the entire point


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## Crispy (Jan 6, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The iPhone and iPad _were_ different to stuff that had gone before, that's the entire point


Not different, just done well for the first time.

NOTE: I don't think such a description fits a potential iPad Pro - the Transformer is already a pretty damn well executed product. The Surface would be too, if it sold and there were apps for it and Windows 8 didn't have schizophrenia.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If they release something that's just a copy of stuff already available I'll eat my shoes.



Lol I was wondering who'd bite on the obvious flame fandroid flame bait.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Not different, just done well for the first time.


Well, yeah, that being the difference


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2014)

Oh and a huge, incredibly expensive Retina monitor to go with the Mac Pro. More than 4K, so 4K content can be edited at native res, with UI around it.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Oh and a huge, incredibly expensive Retina monitor to go with the Mac Pro. More than 4K, so 4K content can be edited at native res, with UI around it.


Are such panels being made by anyone?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Are such panels being made by anyone?



Nobody right now, but they've been done before (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors) and it's not like it's physically impossible. Maybe >4k is a bit of a stretch, but Apple have a long history of fancy monitors and I expect a new one to take advantage of the dual-link display capabilities of teh new Pro.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> NOTE: I don't think such a description fits a potential iPad Pro - the Transformer is already a pretty damn well executed product. The Surface would be too, if it sold and there were apps for it and Windows 8 didn't have schizophrenia.


The Surface Pro 2 is actually a whole load better than many people give it credit for. Every time I've had a go on the thing I've been surprisingly impressed. 

The half-fat RT OS is a remarkably pointless idea though, even more so when you consider that Asus have now created a truly excellent £349 Transformer laptop/tablet hybrid that runs full Windows 8.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, yeah, that being the difference


So what was the big leap forward when Apple finally decided to ignore Steve Jobs' wisdom and create a smaller tablet, just like the company's rivals had been producing for years?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

editor said:


> So what was the big leap forward when Apple finally decided to ignore Steve Jobs' wisdom and create a smaller tablet, just like the company's rivals had been producing for years?


I don't recall saying it was a leap forward.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't recall saying it was a leap forward.


You've been dismissing any notion of a touchscreen having any value on a laptop so I'll be curious to note how that opinion changes when Apple produce one.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Oh and a huge, incredibly expensive Retina monitor to go with the Mac Pro. More than 4K, so 4K content can be edited at native res, with UI around it.



What's the minimum spec for running 4K video on a computer?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2014)

editor said:


> You've been dismissing any notion of a touchscreen having any value on a laptop so I'll be curious to note how that opinion changes when Apple produce one.


If it's just sticking a touchscreen onto osx I won't give a shit. It would have to something different, something to convince me there was a point to it over what you can already do with their multitouch trackpads.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 7, 2014)

I actually prefer the gestures on a large trackpad like those apple ones, over touching a screen. it's as natural in many ways and I don't have to lift my arm. 

I've been tempted many times, and it still lingers,  to see if an apple trackpad could augment the mouse.  It's 65 quid, so an expensive experiment.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 7, 2014)

There's been speculation that Apple might ditch the 11" macbook air line in favour of new ipads. I will be annoyed if they do this because I whole heartedly prefer the 11" Air to any single ipad device. Plus I'm not a big fan of iOS, and I don't like the thought of having to choose between an ipad and a more expensive/heavy macbook pro. The 11" Air is perfect for me.


----------



## RedDragon (Jan 7, 2014)

I'm getting tired of having to choose between taking out my iPad or my MBP, if only there was a device that could be both with an Maverick/iOS app option...


----------



## peterkro (Jan 7, 2014)

4K cinema display,that's a certainty.Apple TV maybe,they'll incorporate all the stuff the jailbreak community has done,if (and it's a big if) they can get agreements from the providers to stream all they could stream if it were legal.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2014)

4K screen have to be coming...


----------



## strung out (Jan 7, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> There's been speculation that Apple might ditch the 11" macbook air line in favour of new ipads. I will be annoyed if they do this because I whole heartedly prefer the 11" Air to any single ipad device. Plus I'm not a big fan of iOS, and I don't like the thought of having to choose between an ipad and a more expensive/heavy macbook pro. The 11" Air is perfect for me.


Ditto, I hate hate hate iOS, but love my 11" MBA so would be very pissed off if they discontinued it in favour of the ipad.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2014)

Crispy said:


> but Apple have a long history of fancy monitors and I expect a new one to take advantage of the dual-link display capabilities of teh new Pro.


 
If you look at the specs of past apple monitors though, they've always been underspecced and overpriced, comparably to what else was on the market at the time.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 7, 2014)

strung out said:


> Ditto, I hate hate hate iOS, but love my 11" MBA so would be very pissed off if they discontinued it in favour of the ipad.


How about a machine that was running OSX as normal, take off the keyboard and it switches into an iOS tablet?


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> How about a machine that was running OSX as normal, take off the keyboard and it switches into an iOS tablet?


 
The storage would be too limited..... Until they can make a 500gb ipad, I would want a MBP.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 7, 2014)

sim667 said:


> The storage would be too limited..... Until they can make a 500gb ipad, I would want a MBP.


Well, my Air has 500 gig of solid state storage, can't see any reason why that would have to change.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, my Air has 500 gig of solid state storage, can't see any reason why that would have to change.


 
That must have been pricey!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 7, 2014)

sim667 said:


> That must have been pricey!


Wasn't exactly cheap, no. But shows it's perfectly possible to fit decent amounts of storage into a small and lightweight form factor.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Wasn't exactly cheap, no. But shows it's perfectly possible to fit decent amounts of storage into a small and lightweight form factor.


 At cost

Cost beyond me, I imagine.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Wasn't exactly cheap, no. But shows it's perfectly possible to fit decent amounts of storage into a small and lightweight form factor.


How much did it cost, in total, including the laptop?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 7, 2014)

editor said:


> How much did it cost, in total, including the laptop?


Enough


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2014)

sim667 said:


> At cost
> 
> Cost beyond me, I imagine.



For now. Remember how expensive the original Air was?

However, I don't think Apple would make an actual dual-OS hybrid machine like that. An iOS device with a hardware keyboard is not an outrageous idea, as it still essentially does everything it can do with or without the extra hardware. But your laptop suddenly downgrading yourself when you take the keyboard off isn't the sort of user experience that Apple likes to make.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 7, 2014)

Crispy said:


> An iOS device with a hardware keyboard is not an outrageous idea... your laptop suddenly downgrading yourself when you take the keyboard off isn't the sort of user experience that Apple likes to make.


I'm still not 100% convinced they'd just add a keyboard to iOS. It's been designed front the start around touch and virtual keyboards. 

And would it be "downgrading"? I'd view it more as optimising the device to the best input format for what you're doing.


----------



## souljacker (Jan 7, 2014)

It goes against their business model as well doesn't it? Apple want us to have an iPhone, iPad and Macbook all at the same time. Preferably one of each for everyone in the house.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Enough


Come on - no need to be coy! I'm genuinely interested in how much such a machine might cost now that you've mentioned it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 7, 2014)

editor said:


> Come on - no need to be coy! I'm genuinely interested in how much such a machine might cost now that you've mentioned it.


Errr, it's a 13" Air, 8gig RAM, 512gig SSD and upgraded to an i7 processor. Think it cost something like £1600. 

Worth every penny


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Errr, it's a 13" Air, 8gig RAM, 512gig SSD and upgraded to an i7 processor. Think it cost something like £1600.
> 
> Worth every penny


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 7, 2014)

Work expense, innit


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 7, 2014)

My wife has an ipad and one of those logitec bluetooth keyboards which makes for a very decent combo if using as a laptop replacement. It's just I could never get on with one, because well _iOS_ for a start, but also the top heavy nature of the screen. As with virtually all tablets I've seen which snap onto keyboards they just don't sit or angle back as comfortably as a MBA.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 7, 2014)

I would like a tablet that could run OSX, which I could dock at home to use with a keyboard and large screen as my main computer.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I would like a tablet that could run OSX, which I could dock at home to use with a keyboard and large screen as my main computer.


How would you interact with it when it's not docked?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 7, 2014)

Crispy said:


> How would you interact with it when it's not docked?


Touchscreen.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Touchscreen.



And how would you:

Choose the right item in a drop down without filing your fingers to points?
Select arbitrary multiple files in Finder?

For example? Microsoft tried to put desktop windows on touchscreens for years and it sucked for very good reasons.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2014)

What about when its space-docked?

*gets coat, calls taxi.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 7, 2014)

Crispy said:


> And how would you:
> 
> Choose the right item in a drop down without filing your fingers to points?
> Select arbitrary multiple files in Finder?
> .


Wait for apple to make a touchscreen compatible version of OSX.

I wouldn't expect all applications to run under the touchscreen version (although it would be nice, for example, if Sketchup would, for presentations and suchlike).

But it would be nice just to have one device that could work as a tablet as well as running all the OSX applications I use at the moment, when docked.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2014)

Far too many compromises for this incarnation of Apple.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2014)

Crispy said:


> And how would you:
> 
> Choose the right item in a drop down without filing your fingers to points?
> Select arbitrary multiple files in Finder?
> ...



This is the core problem, it's a flawed concept. I seriously can't see Apple looking at Microsoft and going "Yeah let's be like them!"

The other issue is money; Apple make more from iPad that the entirety of Microsoft does as a company. Why would they following a losing strategy?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jan 9, 2014)

I am trying to plan ahead for the next computer and screen to run my voiceover studio…one interesting wrinkle that is bugging me at the moment is that there is currently no such thing as a Thunderbolt monitor screen without a FAN…and a fan means it cannot go inside my recording studio.


----------



## pesh (Jan 9, 2014)

just use the thunderbolt to DVI dongle and get whatever monitor you want.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2014)

pesh said:


> just use the thunderbolt to DVI dongle and get whatever monitor you want.



An eizo


----------



## spitfire (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm due a new MBP this year at some point. Anyone got any idea where in the cycle we are? i.e. when's the next batch of new laptops due?

Ta.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2014)

Reckon you either buy now or wait till June.


----------



## spitfire (Jan 27, 2014)

Cool, that works for me, June it is. Thanks KE.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2014)

No problem fella!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 27, 2014)

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ for a guide to what's been released and what's due an upgrade.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2014)

Pretty useful that.


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2014)

Looks like you might be a bit fucked if you're still running S X 10.6, aka Snow Leopard.



> Apple retires Snow Leopard from support, leaves 1 in 5 Macs vulnerable to attacks
> Apple on Tuesday made it clear that it will no longer patch OS X 10.6, aka Snow Leopard, when it again declined to offer a security update for the four-and-a-half-year-old operating system.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 26, 2014)

And people are moaning about xp!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 26, 2014)

I'm surprised the support lasted this long tbh...


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2014)

Such low expectations of service you have! Microsoft is still supporting XP.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 26, 2014)

editor said:


> Such low expectations of service you have! Microsoft is still supporting XP.



Yeah, they had to extend it cos Vista was so shit.


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2014)

Kanda said:


> Yeah, they had to extend it cos Vista was so shit.


Awesome fanboy spin!


----------



## Kanda (Feb 27, 2014)

editor said:


> Awesome fanboy spin!



Eh??? I don't have any apple products, go figure...


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2014)

Kanda said:


> Eh??? I don't have any apple products, go figure...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 27, 2014)

Kanda said:


> Yeah, they had to extend it cos Vista was so shit.



It would more be the equivalent of MS dropping support for 7, although I guess it's easier for apple as they mostly sell to consumers.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 27, 2014)

Yeah its a bit too soon to be dropping support.

Although I guess they justify it to themselves because its not exactly expensive to upgrade to the next OS, wasn't 10.9 £25, where as windows 8 is nearly double at £45, and if you want the pro version its something like £180 ish.


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Although I guess they justify it to themselves because its not exactly expensive to upgrade to the next OS, wasn't 10.9 £25, where as windows 8 is nearly double at £45...


£25 for me. Microsoft had it on offer for ages.


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## sim667 (Feb 27, 2014)

editor said:


> £25 for me. Microsoft had it on offer for ages.



Ah fair do's...... but its not a permanent price, and they offer different ones which are more pricey.

OSX is just one price for everything....... infact just having looked it up 10.9 is actually free to upgrade.

e2a 10.7 and 10.8 are £14 each, so you could actually upgrade 10.6 to 10.9 for under £30..... you can probably do it free if you really want to though I'm sure.

ee2a You can upgrade straight from 10.6 to 10.9 for free straight from the app store.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 27, 2014)

Do newer versions of osx need more grunt to run? If so I can see why people may stick with an older OS I'd they are happy with their hardware.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 27, 2014)

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht5842


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 27, 2014)

As far as I can see, the most recent machines that can't run a later version than 10.6 (Core Duo machines) were discontinued in late 2006.
The old Core2Duo machines can run at least Lion (10.7).


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 27, 2014)

Fair enough. So 6 year old machines? Does it run nicely though on that?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 27, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> Fair enough. So 6 year old machines? Does it run nicely though on that?


Not much difference in performance between 10.6 and 10.7 on Core 2 Duo according to this review. Some people say Lion was faster than Snow Leopard.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 4, 2014)

Still on Snow Leopard with my aging mac pro (mid 2007). It's got a 32-bit EFI so won't run anything higher than 10.7 (Lion - which I hate, perfectly happy still with SN). As far as I'm aware Snow Leopard doesn't have the bug that needs to be patched anyway...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 5, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> Do newer versions of osx need more grunt to run? If so I can see why people may stick with an older OS I'd they are happy with their hardware.



Four years is a very long time for me to have one machine (my former turn around was 18-24 months) but if I had a machine from 2009 back I'd definitely be thinking about a new machine than wondering why Apple aren't supporting SL...there is a balance between being forced to update too quickly and those who take bloody ages to update holding others back!


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 5, 2014)

I imagine this might irritate Mr Cook, although he did score a few points for telling climatechange-deniers if they weren't happy with Apple's green agenda to invest elsewhere. 


> Meetings with Cook could be terrifying. He exuded a Zenlike calm and didn't waste words. "Talk about your numbers. Put your spreadsheet up," he'd say as he nursed a Mountain Dew. (Some staffers wondered why he wasn't bouncing off the walls from the caffeine.) When Cook turned the spotlight on someone, he hammered them with questions until he was satisfied. "Why is that?" "What do you mean?" "I don't understand. Why are you not making it clear?" He was known to ask the same exact question 10 times in a row...Cook also knew the power of silence. He could do more with a pause than Jobs ever could with an epithet. When someone was unable to answer a question, Cook would sit without a word while people stared at the table and shifted in their seats. The silence would be so intense and uncomfortable that everyone in the room wanted to back away. Unperturbed, Cook didn't move a finger as he focused his eyes on his squirming target. Sometimes he would take an energy bar from his pocket while he waited for an answer, and the hush would be broken only by the crackling of the wrapper.
> _"Haunted Empire: Apple After Steve Jobs," which will be published on March 18 by HarperBusiness, an imprint of HarperCollins._
> 
> WSJ


----------



## Structaural (Mar 5, 2014)

Is there any CEO who's not a tosser?


----------



## editor (Mar 5, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> I imagine this might irritate Mr Cook, although he did score a few points for telling climatechange-deniers if they weren't happy with Apple's green agenda to invest elsewhere.


He sounds like an utter dick.


----------



## elbows (Mar 6, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Four years is a very long time for me to have one machine (my former turn around was 18-24 months) but if I had a machine from 2009 back I'd definitely be thinking about a new machine than wondering why Apple aren't supporting SL...there is a balance between being forced to update too quickly and those who take bloody ages to update holding others back!



Depends on the machine really, let alone the user. There were times around a decade ago where I would buy Apple hardware and find I needed to replace it just a few years later, if I was unlucky with where the technology roadmap was going. Eg the change from PowerPC to Intel chips. 

The Mac Pro from 2008 I have is still going strong, and the Macbook Pro from 2009 only needed a SSD drive to make it feel like its still a very nice machine in 2014. Both of them have been upgradeable to the latest OS without issue. They have therefore proved to be more than acceptable value.

The first Macbook I got after the switch to Intel chips is still alive too and used by my mum, but it does fall victim to the inability to upgrade OS past a certain point and the looming lack of support for that OS. I am not going completely mad about this because of how old the machine is, and because its just one of those timing things, the first generation of their Intel-based tech that became obsolete rather quickly as things leapt on fairly quickly. 

So some of the users who will suffer from Apples decision are in this group, victims of bad purchasing timing many years ago. The other small pool of people stuck on that version of OS X are those with a 'if it aint broke don't fix it' mentality who never went for upgrades, or those who are for whatever technical reason (including professional ones e.g. in the music industry) forced to keep a machine around with an old OS to ensure compatibility with their old hardware or old versions of apps.

I would still be happier if the likes of Apple and all other companies tried hard to squeeze out as many years of support for old hardware and software as possible. Of all the potential reasons why progress is 'held back', a company with the resources of Apple being forced to do patches for an old OS for several more years is very low down the list. I am a big fan of progress and new stuff in IT, but sneering at those who are moving through the world of IT at a much slower pace really winds me up. Those who do not wish to (or cannot afford to) hog the fast lane of technological progress are a completely valid section of the user base who deserve to be respected and whose needs should be taken into account by the products & tools on offer. 

Despite personally embracing on many occasions the fetish of the new gadget, my wallet sometimes acts in accord with the above sentiments. I have for years refused to give Apple any money for a new iPhone because I thought they ruined the performance of my iPhone 3G at least a year too soon. And I will refuse to get another android phone for quite some time since they screwed my ability to keep my Nexus up-to-date after owning it for 2 years. I know there are often actual hardware limitations of certain generations of device that caused these unfortunate premature cut-offs, but even so as a strong believer that software has an important responsibility to keep hardware useable for as long as possible, I will put my money where my mouth is on this issue.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2014)

Structaural said:


> Is there any CEO who's not a tosser?



Nope. Which is why it's amusing how silly people get over particular ones over other ones. You have to be a certain character type to make CEO of a massive company and have done some pretty brutal shit to get there.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 10, 2014)

iOS 7.1 has just been released.

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios7-update/

Nothing major that I can see, unless you own a Ferrari and want to use the new Carplay feature...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 13, 2014)

My 5S is a little snappier.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 13, 2014)

Don't like the circles etc for answering the phone, very fiddly and annoying....


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## gabi (Mar 14, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> I imagine this might irritate Mr Cook, although he did score a few points for telling climatechange-deniers if they weren't happy with Apple's green agenda to invest elsewhere.



Re, the chocolate bar thing... I remember sitting through meetings with a client a few times who had a way of scaring the fuck out of us by pulling out a banana, slowly peel it, slowly chew it and then responding. I kinda liked the performance tbh  Even those his response was usually always cunty.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 16, 2014)

Yeah really not a fan of the circles for answering the phone...very odd design decision...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 16, 2014)

If it works better than the slider, which quite often didn't work at all, then it's okay by me.


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 16, 2014)

I need to update my phone this year - if Apple copy Samsung with a 5.7"incher option for iP6 than I'll be a happy man.


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 18, 2014)

Time magazine republish that interview Jonathan Ive did with the Sunday Times - nothing earth shattering other than it's unusual for him to give them.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 18, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> If it works better than the slider, which quite often didn't work at all, then it's okay by me.



I suspect like you after some moments trying to slide the slider and it refusing to go fully to the left, the button is an improvement.



RedDragon said:


> I need to update my phone this year - if Apple copy Samsung with a 5.7"incher option for iP6 than I'll be a happy man.



I too would like an iPhone thats 5" or so but with the same res as my iPad mini, so iPad apps work OK.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 19, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Time magazine republish that interview Jonathan Ive did with the Sunday Times - nothing earth shattering other than it's unusual for him to give them.



I swear he does the same interview every six months and everyone flips out claiming it's rare he does interviews...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 19, 2014)

Sunray said:


> I too would like an iPhone thats 5" or so but with the same res as my iPad mini, so iPad apps work OK.


I'd quite like them to leave it as it is. It's a phone, it lives in your pocket. Compact is good.


----------



## elbows (Mar 20, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd quite like them to leave it as it is. It's a phone, it lives in your pocket. Compact is good.



Thats a great reason to keep selling ones that are approximately the current size. No reason not to offer a larger one too though, since there is obviously some kind of demand for it and they are giving the already hugely strong competition an open goal by not releasing one.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd quite like them to leave it as it is. It's a phone, it lives in your pocket. Compact is good.



Have to say I'm no fan of the super size phone thing, I like my phone being easy to use with one hand and I have a tablet for bigger screen stuff...


----------



## editor (Mar 21, 2014)

I'll never go back to a squinty little iPhone-sized screen, whatever the manufacturer.


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 21, 2014)

I agree with KE. I think the iPhone is the perfect size. I was quite into getting a phablet size device not long ago but I've figured they're just not practical for one handed use. I don't feel a smaller size is a compromise, much the opposite in fact.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 21, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have to say I'm no fan of the super size phone thing, I like my phone being easy to use with one hand and I have a tablet for bigger screen stuff...



Neither am I. I think the 4.2 inches of my Z10 is perfect. The missus' Xperia Z Compact is also great. Fits nicely in the pocket and one haded operation is perfect.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 21, 2014)

Not stoked on the whole massive screen thing. Why do I need a flatscreen tv in my pocket just to check facebook, my emails and make calls?


----------



## Sunray (Mar 21, 2014)

Apples's dilemma , esp with iOS 7.1, this current phone is still pretty decent and I have no need to upgrade.

If they want my repeat business, need to give me tech candy which revolves around a bigger screen.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 21, 2014)

Sunray said:


> Apples's dilemma , esp with iOS 7.1, this current phone is still pretty decent and I have no need to upgrade.
> 
> If they want my repeat business, need to give me tech candy which revolves around a bigger screen.


 
What if it was the same screen, but they'll give you a hand job whilst you put your card pin number in?


----------



## editor (Mar 21, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Not stoked on the whole massive screen thing. Why do I need a flatscreen tv in my pocket just to check facebook, my emails and make calls?


I used to think that until I got a phone with a bigger screen. There's no way I'm going back to a tiny screen phone again.


----------



## pesh (Mar 21, 2014)

i used to think i wanted a phone with a bigger screen until i got one, then i found to use it comfortably i needed to use both hands and it was still a relatively tiny screen.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 21, 2014)

pesh said:


> i used to think i wanted a phone with a bigger screen until i got one, then i found to use it comfortably i needed to use both hands and it was still a relatively tiny screen.


This. I just don't see what you're gaining. Aqua has a Nexus 4 that feels awkward as hell in my hands.


----------



## editor (Mar 21, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> This. I just don't see what you're gaining. Aqua has a Nexus 4 that feels awkward as hell in my hands.


Millions and millions of people seem to get along with larger screen phones just fine. But if you're happy with your little screen, that's cool too.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 21, 2014)

editor said:


> I used to think that until I got a phone with a bigger screen. There's no way I'm going back to a tiny screen phone again.



The real question we all want answered is do you use it with the screen on BACKWARD?!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> I agree with KE. I think the iPhone is the perfect size. I was quite into getting a phablet size device not long ago but I've figured they're just not practical for one handed use. I don't feel a smaller size is a compromise, much the opposite in fact.



Yep, the 5/5S is about right, and easy to view on (I'd suggest anyone squinting needs an eye check).


----------



## purenarcotic (Mar 27, 2014)

editor said:


> I used to think that until I got a phone with a bigger screen. There's no way I'm going back to a tiny screen phone again.



Funny isn't it, I can't wait to get a smaller screen.  I have such small hands I cannot hold my phone (S2) comfortably in one hand.  I don't text two handed (and I can't be bothered to 'teach' myself how to text all over again iyswim) so it'll be a small one for me.


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2014)

purenarcotic said:


> Funny isn't it, I can't wait to get a smaller screen.  I have such small hands I cannot hold my phone (S2) comfortably in one hand.  I don't text two handed (and I can't be bothered to 'teach' myself how to text all over again iyswim) so it'll be a small one for me.


If you have small hands I'm not sure what you were doing getting a large phone in this first place (!), but there are now some excellent small Android handsets available, and of course you still get to use superior keyboards like Swype and SwiftKey. 

 Many of the internet rumours suggest that the next iPhone will have a bigger screen too, not that I pay much attention to them.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2014)

purenarcotic said:


> Funny isn't it, I can't wait to get a smaller screen.  I have such small hands I cannot hold my phone (S2) comfortably in one hand.  I don't text two handed (and I can't be bothered to 'teach' myself how to text all over again iyswim) so it'll be a small one for me.



I know a couple people who chose the Galaxy 'Mini' over the S4/5 because they thought it was just right in size.


----------



## purenarcotic (Mar 27, 2014)

editor said:


> If you have small hands I'm not sure what you were doing getting a large phone in this first place (!), but there are now some excellent small Android handsets available, and of course you still get to use superior keyboards like Swype and SwiftKey.
> 
> Many of the internet rumours suggest that the next iPhone will have a bigger screen too, not that I pay much attention to them.



I didn't realise quite how unwieldy I'd find it I guess, a few minutes in the shop isn't really a proper test run.  I need to look at what's available properly tbh, due for my upgrade soon.  Was just gonna get an iphone as I use a mac but maybe I need to investigate a bit more.


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2014)

purenarcotic said:


> I didn't realise quite how unwieldy I'd find it I guess, a few minutes in the shop isn't really a proper test run.  I need to look at what's available properly tbh, due for my upgrade soon.  Was just gonna get an iphone as I use a mac but maybe I need to investigate a bit more.


The Sony Xperia Z1 Compact might be worth a look as an alternative. It's had some rave reviews and is considerably cheaper than the 5s, but both are clearly excellent phones.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 27, 2014)

If I didn't got an iPhone, I'd have almost certainly have got the Sony Xperia Z1 Compact.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 27, 2014)

I still carry the excellent Orange San Francisco (ZTE Blade) as a backup phone for using on 2G abroad, and its dinky size is perfect for a phone and text device.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 29, 2014)

New Macbook Airs announced today with slightly better processors and $100 knocked off the price. Can't say fairer than that - I do love my macbook air.


> The 11-inch Air, with 128GB of storage, now sells for $899 and options range up to a 13-inch screen with 256GB of storage for $1,199.
> 
> The new versions of the computers, which Apple announced Tuesday, contain fourth-generation Intel Core i5 and Core i7 processors.



http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/29/tech/innovation/apple-macbook-air/index.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2014)

£749 for a MacBook Air puts it right in direct competition with the iPad air...


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> New Macbook Airs announced today with slightly better processors and $100 knocked off the price. Can't say fairer than that - I do love my macbook air.
> http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/29/tech/innovation/apple-macbook-air/index.html


If it had a touchscreen I'd probably buy one. They're lovely machines.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2014)

Lol who the hell wastes money on touch screens these days? Waste of time gimmick that won't last.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol who the hell wastes money on touch screens these days? Waste of time gimmick that won't last.


You're going to look awfully silly when Apple release a touchsceeen laptop/convertible iPad hybrid.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 6, 2014)

editor said:


> You're going to look awfully silly when Apple release a touchsceeen laptop/convertible iPad hybrid.


Nah.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Nah.


Well, I've got so much extra productivity out of my "waste of time gimmick" touchscreen that I won't be buying a laptop without one. Em is similarly hooked. 

Not for everyone of course, but bloody useful if you find it works for you.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 6, 2014)

I've said it many times but it's the greasy fingers factor which I don't like about touch screens. You're constantly having to wipe them down or put up with fingerprints. I don't even like someone touching my screen to point at something. Plus there's the having to reach your arm out at the screen rather than extend a finger to a trackpad seems like superfluous energy wastage.

I can see some benefits -  i.e. something like virtual knobs or faders for music software. But it's not something I've have much need for. It seems better suited to a tablet world.


----------



## RedDragon (May 6, 2014)

editor said:


> You're going to look awfully silly when Apple release a touchsceeen laptop/convertible iPad hybrid.


I can't see them going in that direction, rather more likely to introduce a 13" boosted iPad for greater productivity. 

I'm still hoping for that (Samsung inspired ) oversized iPhone 5.7"


----------



## RedDragon (May 9, 2014)

Well, if they're good enough for Lil'Wayne then there're good enough for Apple. 

The Verge


----------



## sim667 (May 9, 2014)

editor said:


> If it had a touchscreen I'd probably buy one. They're lovely machines.


 
I dont really understand why you'd want a touch screen on a laptop, maybe a detachable ipad/keyboard type setup then I could see why.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (May 9, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Well, if they're good enough for Lil'Wayne then there're good enough for Apple.
> 
> The Verge


http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/9/5698632/dr-dre-hip-hop-billionaire-video


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2014)

Touch screen laptops are a UX dead end...with all the u-turns Microsoft are doing now I expect they'll be backing off from them too at some point!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Well, if they're good enough for Lil'Wayne then there're good enough for Apple.
> 
> The Verge



It's interesting, Google spent 3.2 billion on Nest betting on connected devices in the home and it appears Apple have spent the same betting on wearable and highly fashionable tech...


----------



## sim667 (May 14, 2014)

3 rang me up yesterday telling me they wanted to give me a special offer, and that the iphone 5s is a far superior phone to my current iphone 5.

Basically they want me off unlimited data..... I told them where to go.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 19, 2014)

Yeah I imagine there's a few people who've they've managed to pull that with...


----------



## RedDragon (May 19, 2014)

Has the Beats acquisition been confirmed yet, officially?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 19, 2014)

Nope.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 19, 2014)

They're horrid looking headphones. It'd do my head in having to wear something that chunky. More proof that I'm an old duffer clearly.


----------



## sim667 (May 20, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> They're horrid looking headphones. It'd do my head in having to wear something that chunky. More proof that I'm an old duffer clearly.



No they are rubbish.... I'd rather have my £30 over ear sennheiser any day of the week.

I'm in the market for new dj headphones on payday though


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 20, 2014)

I'll say one thing for the high end Beats products - they are beautifully made.  Genuine air of quality about them. Almost Apple-esque if you like.

The sound though, is fine for Hip Hop and shit for everything else. All bottom end with a horrible scooped midrange.


----------



## editor (May 20, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'll say one thing for the high end Beats products - they are beautifully made.  Genuine air of quality about them. Almost Apple-esque if you like.
> 
> The sound though, is fine for Hip Hop and shit for everything else. All bottom end with a horrible scooped midrange.


I've gone through two pairs of their headphones so I'm not exactly thrilled with their quality. They do pump out an impressive amount of bass, but at the expense of quality.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 20, 2014)

sim667 said:


> No they are rubbish.... I'd rather have my £30 over ear sennheiser any day of the week.
> 
> I'm in the market for new dj headphones on payday though



Yep. Beats look nice but I'm not a fan of their bass over everything hardware...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 28, 2014)

Looks like Dre leaking it cost him $200 million, Apple buys Beats: confirmed for $3 billion.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 31, 2014)

WWDC 2014 this Monday, bound to be some OS X related news...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 31, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'll say one thing for the high end Beats products - they are beautifully made.  Genuine air of quality about them. Almost Apple-esque if you like.
> 
> The sound though, is fine for Hip Hop and shit for everything else. All bottom end with a horrible scooped midrange.


Bear in mind though that the average market for headphones in that range is people thinking "these earbuds are rubbish when I'm listening to tunes on the way to work, I want something better". Fat bassy noise that can't be drowned out by the tube or chatter or traffic fits that bill. They're not studio jobs.

I have a pair of AKG K451s personally but I can see the point.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2014)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 31, 2014)

A parody ad for an item that Apple isn't making! (But other people are.)


----------



## editor (May 31, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> A parody ad for an item that Apple isn't making! (But other people are.)


Given that the clickbating fanboy sites WITH INSIDER LEAKS have never stopped going on about the iWatch it seems fair game


----------



## Mr Retro (May 31, 2014)

editor said:


> I've gone through two pairs of their headphones so I'm not exactly thrilled with their quality. They do pump out an impressive amount of bass, but at the expense of quality.


I got a set of the ear bud ones and was so disappointed with them. I preferred the earphones that came with my iPhone and that's saying something. Luckily my wife loves them so the significant cost wasn't a waste.


----------



## Dr. Furface (May 31, 2014)

Seems like it's the Beats music streaming service that Apple are really interested in (as well as Dre and partner Jimmy Iovine) - they just get the headphones biz as part of the deal
http://online.wsj.com/articles/apple-to-buy-beats-1401308971


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 2, 2014)

WWDC keynote going on at the moment. Looks like OS X is going to look a lot more like iOS 7 before the end of the year.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 2, 2014)

I like what they've done, I just wonder how old hardware will cope with it.

The health thing I find a bit uncomfortable though


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 2, 2014)

The integration of phone calls and texts into the mac looked rather cool. Find a phone number on a website and call it directly from your desktop, very nice.


----------



## elbows (Jun 2, 2014)

I missed the OS X portion of the keynotes, and some of the iOS for consumers stuff, so I can't comment on that yet.

As a developer I am very happy. Especially as last years features almost made me want to finally learn Objective C, but it seems I still object to it a little too much to have bothered. Now I have a new programming language (Swift) to play with instead, which appears to be far more to my taste. And my favourite new addition to OS X for devs last year, scene kit, is in iOS 8.

Metal (Apples version of AMDs Mantle from what I can gather so far) is also music to my ears, and could also be used to add some theoretical technical weight to a couple of different rumours: An apple tv box that can play games. And a potential move to ARM processors for some laptops.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 2, 2014)

3rd Party Keyboards AT LAST. Hallelujah! and apparently a new swipe friendly "QuickType keyboard" which looks pretty similar to the Android one.







http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/02/apple-ios8-third-party-keyboards-swiftkey/

This has literally been my single biggest gripe with iOS.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 2, 2014)

My impressions:


Apple clearly are trying to step up their game
OS X given an iOS7 polish will piss off people but the functionality has some nice points, device awareness and screen swapping stuff is nice.
iOS has some huge things, Touch ID access means the digital wallet war is truly on (pay for your coffee using Passbook and your fingerprint), opening up iOS to allow dev teams to have apps speak with each other
iCloud drive - hah Apple finally fucking cracked and allowed everyone the file system they wanted!
New programming language? Well er ok...wow?
Like the photo solution and the iCloud pricing too, double the storage for a third of the price I pay Dropbox each month. Yes please!
Well anyway...loads of little bits of things...but the device handover/ aware stuff really was the bit that made me go 'This is the nice scifi stuff technology should do!'. Really think it's past time they made Siri the scary little Hal wannabe it clearly could be.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 2, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The integration of phone calls and texts into the mac looked rather cool. Find a phone number on a website and call it directly from your desktop, very nice.



All this stuff was the main thing that jumped out for me, a seamless user experience between screens is really what it's about.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 2, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> All this stuff was the main thing that jumped out for me, a seamless user experience between screens is really what it's about.


Yeah, they've understood what Microsoft massively failed to do - you don't need the same interface on all your devices, you just need the data to move seamlessly between them.


----------



## editor (Jun 2, 2014)

Boy oh boy Apple sure have been borrowing from Android.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 3, 2014)

Terrible article. The guy doesn't have an apple device, isn't comparing like for like or know what Apple have changed. Beta testing and keyboards. Like they are even registering as interesting features.

What is really caught my eye are the hand off features where you can move from my iPhone to my iPad in a moment even take a call/text on my iPad if my phone is near by.  I might upgrade to the iPhone 6. Those coupled with airdrop are making for some very cool integration features.  If they did a touch screen iMac air, I'd be tempted. Oddly that space is where windows 8 has come to rule.

I suspect there is more to come with 8, can't list all the features or the new phone presentation would be a bit dull.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 3, 2014)

Yeah that article is a joke, its trying to make what I'd call "non features" (I.e. just little developments on already existing stuff) into a big deal that so and so copied so and so..... its all a bit primary school.

What about the functions that are being put into ios that aren't already in android...... the large email attachment system, the ability to answer calls on your other devices, the different ways in which to respond to your messages.


----------



## editor (Jun 3, 2014)

Sunray said:


> What is really caught my eye are the hand off features where you can move from my iPhone to my iPad in a moment even take a call/text on my iPad if my phone is near by.


I've been able to send/receive texts and make calls on my laptop/desktop for years. Just saying, like.


Sunray said:


> If they did a touch screen iMac air, I'd be tempted.


Me too actually. With a touchscreen they'd be one of the best laptops you could buy, period.


----------



## BooBooGirl (Jun 3, 2014)

Is there any news if when the new iphone is out?


----------



## sim667 (Jun 3, 2014)

BooBooGirl said:


> Is there any news if when the new iphone is out?


 
I imagine it will get a release at the same time as iOS 8 in the "fall" so I'd guess anouncement in september for an october release.


----------



## editor (Jun 3, 2014)

BooBooGirl said:


> Is there any news if when the new iphone is out?


Very unlikely to be announced before the autumn.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 3, 2014)

Amusing though this 'ripping off' of Android features is, I don't mind it in the slightest. It does at least show they're recognising their own shortcomings on iphones and responding to what people want most on their mobile device. Better that than digging their heels in on silly things like 3rd party keyboards like they have been until now. It also then forces Google to up _their_ game and come up with better shit that Apple don't have.

Competition like that can't be a bad thing for us whichever device you want.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jun 3, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I imagine it will get a release at the same time as iOS 8 in the "fall" so I'd guess anouncement in september for an october release.


That is about the normal time isn't it?

I'm intrigued to see the size of the new phone, if they do some sort of 'phablet' I'd be quite tempted to replace my 5 and ipad mini with one.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 3, 2014)

neonwilderness said:


> That is about the normal time isn't it?
> 
> I'm intrigued to see the size of the new phone, if they do some sort of 'phablet' I'd be quite tempted to replace my 5 and ipad mini with one.



The rumours are all pointing to a 4.7" and a 5.5" device both being launched later this year.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 3, 2014)

I'd rather they let it as it is tbh. It's perfectly usable as it is, bigger phones are crap for one handed use and are a fucker to get in and out of a tight pocket.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd rather they let it as it is tbh. It's perfectly usable as it is, bigger phones are crap for one handed use and are a fucker to get in and out of a tight pocket.



Surely having an an option between the two is the best of both worlds no? 4.7" would be a little shorter than the current 4.87" iphone 5 anyway.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 3, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> Surely having an an option between the two is the best of both worlds no? 4.7" would be a little shorter than the current 4.87" iphone 5 anyway.


The current phone has a 4" screen.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The current phone has a 4" screen.



I'm talking about the handset dimensions, not the screen. It's 4.87" high AFAIK. The article linked to is suggesting a 4.7" handset? Unless I'm mistaken and they're referring to screen size? It's all rumour anyway.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 3, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm talking about the handset dimensions, not the screen. It's 4.87" high AFAIK. The article linked to is suggesting a 4.7" handset? Unless I'm mistaken and they're referring to screen size? It's all rumour anyway.


They are referring to screen size.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They are referring to screen size.



OK right then. I also think the size is fine as it is. But doubtless many will like the larger size options as the large Android handsets seem to be doing ok.


----------



## editor (Jun 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd rather they let it as it is tbh. It's perfectly usable as it is, bigger phones are crap for one handed use and are a fucker to get in and out of a tight pocket.


Quite a few zillion people seem to be coping just fine with those 'problems.'


----------



## strung out (Jun 3, 2014)

One of my biggest reasons for not getting an iphone is the small screen size.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jun 3, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> OK right then. I also think the size is fine as it is. But doubtless many will like the larger size options as the large Android handsets seem to be doing ok.


Yep, something about the size of the Samsung S5 or Note would be ideal for me.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 3, 2014)

People want choice. I want a small handset like Bees. Plenty of others want big ones. Rumours suggest Apple are going to to do two handset sizes. Everyone wins in the end.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 3, 2014)

They said iOS 8 is out in the fall.  So expect any announcement of its release to coincide with a new phone.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 4, 2014)

Autumn.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> Amusing though this 'ripping off' of Android features is, I don't mind it in the slightest. It does at least show they're recognising their own shortcomings on iphones and responding to what people want most on their mobile device. Better that than digging their heels in on silly things like 3rd party keyboards like they have been until now. It also then forces Google to up _their_ game and come up with better shit that Apple don't have.
> 
> Competition like that can't be a bad thing for us whichever device you want.



I don't see anything in tech as ripping off anymore...it's great that competition has forced Google to tighten things up and Apple to open up. The clear winners are us, the consumers!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd rather they let it as it is tbh. It's perfectly usable as it is, bigger phones are crap for one handed use and are a fucker to get in and out of a tight pocket.



I don't need a massive screen but if that's what the market wants then that's what Apple will give them. They'd be mad not too...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah, they've understood what Microsoft massively failed to do - you don't need the same interface on all your devices, you just need the data to move seamlessly between them.



MS have clearly failed, and amazingly so, touch screen laptops are horrible and a gimmick at this point. But they didn't fail by having a single OS, they failed by shoving it down everyones throat without letting go of the past. Had they just transitioned over a number of years they could of worked out the UX and produced a unified experience. 

That said it would have still been a tall order as the only way you can truly unify experience is by creating both the hardware and software. Only one company does that presently.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 7, 2014)

As i own a Mini which I am very happy with indeed, I'm sitting on the fence. The iPhone/iPad combination has proved itself to be a winner.  I think I'd have to go into an Apple shop and use the new ones to see if gadget me goes 'want!'.

The 4 I have is still serving me very well indeed, its the longest I've ever owned a phone.  I've never been using it and thinking 'god damn I need a new phone'.  Not one to be buying something for the sake of it.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2014)

If Apple released a touch screen MacBook Air it would sell by the bucketload. I'd buy one, for starters.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 7, 2014)

Greasy fingers all over my nice macbook air screen? No thanks. Trackpad FTW.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2014)

This 'greasy fingers' argument really is feeble. I'm using a touchscreen machine now and if it ever gets so bad that it's a problem it takes about a second to wipe it. It's like saying you won't use a touchscreen phone because it'll get dirty.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 7, 2014)

I seem to remember some people using that argument against the first iPhone. I can't be arsed to search that far back so wouldn't want to say who it was.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 7, 2014)

My MacBook Air has the filthiest screen known to mankind, and I don't even touch it except to try to remove a particularly awkward grease spot which just smears it further. I don't think a touch screen could possibly make that worse. If anything they'd use an oleophobic coating as with phones.

It would however be pointless on an air because OS X isn't at all touch based and apple seem to have no interest in making it so - a design decision that I agree with personally.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 7, 2014)

editor said:


> I've been able to send/receive texts and make calls on my laptop/desktop for years.



Properly linked to your phone? I use mighty text which works well for texts, what do you use for calls?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> Greasy fingers all over my nice macbook air screen? No thanks. Trackpad FTW.



Indeed, also see wrist and arm injury rise due to the abnormal way of using a screen for navigation.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> Properly linked to your phone? I use mighty text which works well for texts, what do you use for calls?



I use Viber which does much of what Apple is about to do but nowhere near as seamlessly...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 8, 2014)

Not quite what mighty text does. It displays all my SMSs in chrome, with pops up when I get a new one that I can reply straight from. Notifies me if someone is ringing, useful if my phone is on silent or somewhere else. 

Comes out of my call allowance, but they're unlimited. Tbh there would be not benefit in it doing calls other then pure laziness or not having to get up to find my phone.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 8, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> I seem to remember some people using that argument against the first iPhone. I can't be arsed to search that far back so wouldn't want to say who it was.



Major difference though. The iphone is a sturdy thing that you can vigorously wipe to your hearts content with whatever is to hand. A macbook air screen is delicate and thin and therefore I want mine coming into contact with fingers and wiping cloths as little as possible.

Also I still don't see how the trackpad which sits conveniently at your fingertips is any less preferable than a screen which you have to reach up at.


----------



## elbows (Jun 8, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It would however be pointless on an air because OS X isn't at all touch based and apple seem to have no interest in making it so - a design decision that I agree with personally.



And this seems even more pronounced when using Yosemite, because they've made the footprint of various toolbars smaller and even less appropriate for touch than they were previously.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 8, 2014)

You could use it as a very expensive windows 8 machine. 

Obviously not going to happen.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> Also I still don't see how the trackpad which sits conveniently at your fingertips is any less preferable than a screen which you have to reach up at.


I have used the trackpad on my Asus about three times. Really.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 8, 2014)

editor said:


> I have used the trackpad on my Asus about three times. Really.



I've just ordered a transformer book so I'll see for myself how responsive the trackpad is and how I feel about the Windows 8.1 touchscreen experience in a few days. But with tablet/laptop hybrids the screens are naturally tougher and more conducive to rigorous touching and screen cleaning. It's not something I'd ever feel comfortable with on a thin screen like a macbook air.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2014)

I was using one recently, awful device. Smudged to high heaven and just feels so weird while trying to do work to have to keep touching the screen...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I was using one recently, awful device. Smudged to high heaven and just feels so weird while trying to do work to have to keep touching the screen...


You don't *have* to touch the screen to do anything. It's an option. An _extra_ that some people (like me) find they end up using almost all the time rather than the trackpad, which is also there, just like on a normal laptop.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> I've just ordered a transformer book so I'll see for myself how responsive the trackpad is and how I feel about the Windows 8.1 touchscreen experience in a few days. .


It's definitely not as good as Android.


----------



## gabi (Jun 9, 2014)

fucking hell - theres an OS *worse* than android? Not possible.

Thank god i dont have to use my phone very often as its a samsung, i was broke at the time so had to go cheaper. its a fucking awful user experience. ive got an iPad on the side and the difference is massive.

maybe its a case of different folks/different strokes though.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2014)

gabi said:


> fucking hell - theres an OS *worse* than android? Not possible.
> 
> Thank god i dont have to use my phone very often as its a samsung, i was broke at the time so had to go cheaper. its a fucking awful user experience. ive got an iPad on the side and the difference is massive.
> 
> maybe its a case of different folks/different strokes though.


Cheap phone isn't as good as expensive iPad shocker!

The Android OS is excellent and easily the equal of Apple's OS, but I doubt if either are going to shine on cheap hardware.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2014)

I suppose it's no real surprise but it is funny given that the Apple CEO posted up the evidence!





From MacWorld:


> It wasn't totally clear whether the PC in question was running Windows XP or Windows 7, although most commenters were leaning toward Windows XP. It also wasn't clear what application it was running. It's certainly possible that Windows was being used to run electronic design automation (EDA) software, or some other embedded analysis program that Apple's developer base has passed over.
> 
> What is clear, however, is that Apple's airtight PR machine sprung a leak, and right from the very top. Ironically, Cook himself took some potshots at Microsoft during the Apple's WWDC speech, mocking Microsoft for poor customer adoption of Windows 8 relative to OS X Mavericks.
> 
> ...


http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/...-mac-production-line-running-windows-3523833/


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2014)

editor said:


> Cheap phone isn't as good as expensive iPad shocker!
> 
> The Android OS is excellent and easily the equal of Apple's OS, but I doubt if either are going to shine on cheap hardware.



Crap hardware isn't the only reason why some will have a strong preference for one or the other OS though. They can be equal or better than each other at certain things but we go round in circles when we try to argue on that front, stumbling as we intertwine our personal preference with the question of which is better. Probably because its actually more about user experience, in the form of 'what experience does this particular user want?' Certainly bad hardware can leave someone with a unfairly tainted impression of an OS, but that may not be the only reason the particular OS rubs them the wrong way.


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2014)

From the smaller details of iOS/OS X front, I am very pleased that they are building Bluetooth LE/Smart MIDI into their new operating systems. Especially if in the years to become this turns into a broader standard that music hardware manufacturers willingly adopt.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 12, 2014)

Well the transformer book arrived today. I can sort of see why you might prefer to use the touch screen as the thing is too small to be scrunching up your hand on the tiny (and pretty unresponsive) trackpad.

All in, it just reaffirms why I think Apple have got it absolutely right on the 11" macbook air. Its neither too small nor too big. The trackpad is super responsive, and you don't have to be smudging up your screen with fingerprints.


----------



## gabi (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> Cheap phone isn't as good as expensive iPad shocker!
> 
> The Android OS is excellent and easily the equal of Apple's OS, but I doubt if either are going to shine on cheap hardware.



When did I say my phone was cheap? It was cheaper than an iPhone. But that's not hard. Still set me back a pretty penny. 

The problem is the OS. It's awful. I'd rather it ran DOS.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

gabi said:


> When did I say my phone was cheap? It was cheaper than an iPhone. But that's not hard. Still set me back a pretty penny.
> 
> The problem is the OS. It's awful. I'd rather it ran DOS.


Millions of people would seem to disagree with you on that ludicrous point.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2014)

In more interesting news than all this boring Android stuff on Apple thread it's looking that iOS 8 is very well relieved by developers. I've read countless pieces now about how excited they are. 

But all that's background what's more interesting will be what they do with the new access to things like Touch ID etc...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2014)

Something else I've been a little curious about is what impact Apples new app hosting deal will have. Will it mean more app makes make for iOS primarily or as priority? Will Amazon drop their prices? And will Apple allow them the same service for apps that download to non Apple hardware..?


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And will Apple allow them the same service for apps that download to non Apple hardware..?



No, CloudKit is very much part of their usual agenda, and it's hard to imagine them opening it up to other operating systems at any point.


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 28, 2014)

OMG They "outed" Tim


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 28, 2014)

I have been using the iphone for a couple of months now and while I love it as a phone, there is some really daft crap going on.  You can't airdrop from phone to mac or vice verca for example which is a ludicrously stupid decision by Apple.  I can't bluetooth between the two devices either which is royally pissing me off. 

Apple: beautiful products, common sense immensely lacking.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 28, 2014)

purenarcotic said:


> I have been using the iphone for a couple of months now and while I love it as a phone, there is some really daft crap going on.  You can't airdrop from phone to mac or vice verca for example which is a ludicrously stupid decision by Apple.  I can't bluetooth between the two devices either which is royally pissing me off.
> 
> Apple: beautiful products, common sense immensely lacking.


The Airdrop thing is coming in the next versions of OSX/iOS. Along with Los of other cool stuff like making calls from your mac etc.


----------



## purenarcotic (Jun 28, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The Airdrop thing is coming in the next versions of OSX/iOS. Along with Los of other cool stuff like making calls from your mac etc.



I saw the making calls from your mac / being able to read and reply to texts from your mac thing, that looks brilliant. 

I'm glad the airdrop thing is coming, I would have preferred it to already exist though.


----------



## elbows (Jun 28, 2014)

Watch out though, quite a number of such forthcoming OS features require devices with Bluetooth 4.0 / LE.

http://www.imore.com/how-tell-if-your-mac-has-bluetooth-40


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 29, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> OMG They "outed" Tim




Yeah weird slow news story of the day...I mean, so?


----------



## editor (May 20, 2015)

This guy is not even slightly pleased with the new small MacBook 
http://www.marco.org/2015/05/19/mistake-one


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 20, 2015)

Rule of Apple Products: Don't buy version 1


----------



## Throbbing Angel (May 20, 2015)

That's a typical Marco Arment post - very detailed - and boy, he _*really*_ doesn't like it does he?

Interesting read.


----------



## sim667 (May 21, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> Rule of Apple Products: Don't buy version 1



Thats the same with any manufacturer tbh.

Although I'm still lusting after a watch a bit.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Thats the same with any manufacturer tbh.
> 
> Although I'm still lusting after a watch a bit.


Sales are apparently proving a little disappointing (my Apple standards). I'm never going to spend that kind of money on what is effectively a tech trinket.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 21, 2015)

I'm currently working at the Sound City music conference in Liverpool. Lots of music industry hipster types about. Almost all of them wearing one


----------



## editor (May 21, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm currently working at the Sound City music conference in Liverpool. Lots of music industry hipster types about. Almost all of them wearing one


Ah, the joys of disposable income.


----------



## sim667 (May 21, 2015)

editor said:


> Sales are apparently proving a little disappointing (my Apple standards). I'm never going to spend that kind of money on what is effectively a tech trinket.



I definitely wouldn't go more expensive than a sport.... and the straps are hideously expensive, so I'd buy my own too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 21, 2015)

There are already two in my local CeX.


----------



## hiccup (May 21, 2015)

I saw a ~12 year old boy wearing one on the tube the other day. He was with his mum, who was also wearing one.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2015)

hiccup said:


> I saw a ~12 year old boy wearing one on the tube the other day. He was with his mum, who was also wearing one.


Jeez.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 21, 2015)

Watches are a much better way of showing you have money then phones as they are on display!


----------



## sim667 (May 26, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There are already two in my local CeX.



How much for?

I bet a lot of people are getting them, who don't have iPhones.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 5, 2015)

WWDC on monday..... can't imagine they're going to anounce anything groundbreaking tbh.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 5, 2015)

sim667 said:


> WWDC on monday..... can't imagine they're going to anounce anything groundbreaking tbh.


IOS9 and the new Beats streaming service presumably.


----------



## editor (Jul 21, 2015)

Apple gamechanging electric car complete with dickhead back seat driver, blah blah blah.



> Apple isn't done hiring top talent for its electric car project -- in fact, it just scored one of its biggest hires. The _Wall Street Journal_understands that 1 Infinite Loop recently recruited Doug Betts, the manager for Fiat Chrysler's global quality efforts from 2007 to 2014. It's not clear what role he'll take, but his former position suggests that he'll help Apple put everything together in a solid piece of machinery. Let's just hope that the result is more reliable than Chrysler and Fiat cars -- neither brand has performed well in recent dependability rankings.



http://www.engadget.com/2015/07/20/apple-hires-fiat-chrysler-quality-lead/?ncid=rss_truncated


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 21, 2015)

Tbf Apple shaking it all up could be great.


----------



## editor (Jul 21, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Tbf Apple shaking it all up could be great.


Why? They only ever produce high priced premium products unaffordable to most, and much of the recent technology advances have been happening elsewhere.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 21, 2015)

editor said:


> Why? They only ever produce high priced premium products unaffordable to most, and much of the recent technology advances have been happening elsewhere.



When iOS came out I was still using Windows Mobile. I had no desire to buy one, for many reasons, but they did make other people up their game. 

Apple generally don't do new technology, but they do make it work well, if you can put up with their restrictions on how to use it. 

Anyway it quite irrelevant to me. I'll never be able to afford a new car.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 24, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> When iOS came out I was still using Windows Mobile. I had no desire to buy one, for many reasons, but they did make other people up their game.
> 
> Apple generally don't do new technology, but they do make it work well, if you can put up with their restrictions on how to use it.
> 
> Anyway it quite irrelevant to me. I'll never be able to afford a new car.



I'm itching to buy an electric car, currently planning on moving to a Tesla in a few years but if Apple are getting into the game I may wait to see what the market will look like.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 24, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm itching to buy an electric car, currently planning on moving to a Tesla in a few years but if Apple are getting into the game I may wait to see what the market will look like.



Apple won't move into the game. They'll create the Ice. Which will be nice, but not deal breaking.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 25, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Apple won't move into the game. They'll create the Ice. Which will be nice, but not deal breaking.



I'm not so sure, Apple don't invest this much without a definitive product in mind which shakes up an industry. I'm willing to bet that they'll have a car in less than a decade...


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2015)

When was the last time Apple shaked up the industry?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 26, 2015)

editor said:


> When was the last time Apple shaked up the industry?


iMac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, iPad. To a lesser extent also the MacBook Air.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 26, 2015)

And as they now apparently have 75% of the global smartwatch market you could argue they've made a fairly large impact on that. It's just in a field nobody really seems to want yet


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> iMac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, iPad. To a lesser extent also the MacBook Air.


And in the past five years?  What industries have they shaken up?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 26, 2015)

editor said:


> And in the past five years?  What industries have they shaken up?


So apart from transforming the music industry, the mobile phone industry and the PC industry, just what have The Romans, sorry, Apple done for us?


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So apart from transforming the music industry, the mobile phone industry and the PC industry, just what have The Romans, sorry, Apple done for us?


Yes, they were partly responsible for some of that in the past. But we're talking about now. What industries have they "shaken up" recently and how?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 26, 2015)

What tech industries that Apple operate in have seen any major shake up in recent years? New laptops aren't exciting. My Note. 4 is least exciting new smartphone I've owned and my desktop is donkey years old. Everything seems to have been gradual evolution for a while.


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> What tech industries that Apple operate in have seen any major shake up in recent years? New laptops aren't exciting. My Note. 4 is least exciting new smartphone I've owned and my desktop is donkey years old. Everything seems to have been gradual evolution for a while.


Arguably the growth of the phablet - a trend that it took Apple years to emulate. Perhaps Chromebooks too if the trend continues.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 26, 2015)

Those are just phones with larger screens. Very nice, but not much different. 

Not used a chrome book to know just what evolutionary about it. They're just small laptops with Google's OS on right?


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Those are just phones with larger screens. Very nice, but not much different.
> 
> Not used a chrome book to know just what evolutionary about it. They're just small laptops with Google's OS on right?


I'd disagree, but I'd say Google Now is the start of real innovation, along with products like Nest.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 26, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> iMac, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, iPad. To a lesser extent also the MacBook Air.



It really is pointless replying to such a clearly irrational question...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 26, 2015)

It's an idiotic question but if you want yet more evidence of their disruption Apple Pay is the latest to shake things up.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 26, 2015)

Apple Pay is only at all relevant in the US, because of their antiquated banking system.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 26, 2015)

Apple has definitely produced the best smartwatch system, which would be terribly disruptive if anyone apart from tossers with too much money to spare cared about smartwatches.


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apple has definitely produced the best smartwatch system, which would be terribly disruptive if anyone apart from tossers with too much money to spare cared about smartwatches.


I think their hardware is the best made and the integration with the iPhone is class leading, but I don't think it looks very nice (I think the round ones take that honour).

I don't think Apple hasn't got anything as genuinely useful as the Google Now card system (which is just about the only vaguely essential use I can think of for a smartwatch).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Yes, they were partly responsible for some of that in the past. But we're talking about now. What industries have they "shaken up" recently and how?


"Partly"? 

Lol


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> "Partly"?
> 
> Lol


Yes, of course. Apple invented everything. Silly me.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 27, 2015)

After many years of having Google Now, I still think at best it can be mildly interesting


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> After many years of having Google Now, I still think at best it can be mildly interesting


It's good for getting home when you haven't a clue where you are, and it's also pretty damn good at throwing up interesting articles to read - and I love the way it reminds you of incoming packages/flights etc - although, I'd agree that it is still a long way off from being a complete product.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 28, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apple Pay is only at all relevant in the US, because of their antiquated banking system.



Disagree everyone I've seen use it love it. The deluge of people bitching at banks like Barclay's tells another story too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 28, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apple has definitely produced the best smartwatch system, which would be terribly disruptive if anyone apart from tossers with too much money to spare cared about smartwatches.



Well quite.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 28, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> "Partly"?
> 
> Lol



You still wasting your time with a troll hahaha!?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 28, 2015)

Wj


Kdoid_Eternity said:


> Disagree everyone I've seen use it love it. The deluge of people bitching at banks like Barclay's tells another story too.



What advantage does it have over using your card?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 29, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Wj
> 
> 
> What advantage does it have over using your card?


Contactless cards are limited to £20 but Apple Pay has no limit.
It's more secure than a PIN (requires fingerprint).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 29, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Contactless cards are limited to £20 but Apple Pay has no limit.
> It's more secure than a PIN (requires fingerprint).


IIRC some retailers have ditched the limit with Apple pay but there are some that still have £20 max.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Contactless cards are limited to £20 but Apple Pay has no limit.
> It's more secure than a PIN (requires fingerprint).


It will still be £20 in a fair few places:


> However, the reality is that contactless terminals are set to allow a maximum transaction of £20. For higher limits to apply, it will require retailers to support Apple Pay and increase the amount that can be spent. That means that most people will encounter a £20 cap at launch although some stores will increase the limit after launch: Pret is already offering unlimited transactions.
> http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/mobi...pple-pay-uk-transaction-limits-watch-and-more


----------



## Crispy (Jul 29, 2015)

How the hell do you spend >£20 at Pret?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Wj
> 
> 
> What advantage does it have over using your card?



Far quicker. Like most people I almost always have my phone in my hand while waiting in line. It requires no input of numbers and barely takes two seconds before you're able to walk away (you don't even need to wait for receipts anymore).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2015)

Crispy said:


> How the hell do you spend >£20 at Pret?



Like cards it's going up to 30 quid in September but unlike cards it could be higher due to better security.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 30, 2015)

Truth is that this is the first time people are using phones to pay for stuff widely, and everyone will be doing it sooner rather than later.

It's the way of the future, there's no denying it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 2, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Truth is that this is the first time people are using phones to pay for stuff widely, and everyone will be doing it sooner rather than later.
> 
> It's the way of the future, there's no denying it.



Yup.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 3, 2015)

Totally apple way to do things of course, but for everyone to do it then there needs to be a widely accepted equivalent on other platforms.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 4, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Totally apple way to do things of course, but for everyone to do it then there needs to be a widely accepted equivalent on other platforms.



Surely the banks and Google etc will be working hard on this? They'd be mad to let Apple be the only ones with this facility in the mass market.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 4, 2015)

I guess what will make it harder is apple have the best finger print scanner from what I heard.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> I guess what will make it harder is apple have the best finger print scanner from what I heard.


Nope. The Samsung one is just as good, 
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...int-scanner-vs-Apple-iPhone-6-TouchID_id66820


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 4, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> I guess what will make it harder is apple have the best finger print scanner from what I heard.



Do you actually need a fingerprint scanner though? I've already got a couple of nfc cards I can use without needing it, albeit with a £20 limit.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 4, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Do you actually need a fingerprint scanner though? I've already got a couple of nfc cards I can use without needing it, albeit with a £20 limit.


You want the extra layer of security if you're going to be spending more than £20.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 4, 2015)

Crispy said:


> You want the extra layer of security if you're going to be spending more than £20.



Yes of course, but there's still no reason a scanner-less phone with an nfc chip couldn't be used to do the same thing as £20 cards.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 4, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Yes of course, but there's still no reason a scanner-less phone with an nfc chip couldn't be used to do the same thing as £20 cards.


https://support.google.com/wallet/answer/2466137?hl=en-GB
(US-only and it's not very popular)


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2015)

Crispy said:


> https://support.google.com/wallet/answer/2466137?hl=en-GB
> (US-only and it's not very popular)


It hasn't had the fanfare that Apple products always get, but it was ticking over and growing in the US. Fat load of good over here though, although the Apple hype will certainly help Google. 

http://www.howtogeek.com/201870/google-wallet-vs.-apple-pay-what-you-need-to-know/


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 4, 2015)

editor said:


> Nope. The Samsung one is just as good,
> http://www.phonearena.com/news/Sams...int-scanner-vs-Apple-iPhone-6-TouchID_id66820



The Apple one must be shit as well then,  because I wouldn't want to use the one on mine to pay for stuff over my card.


----------



## 2hats (Aug 4, 2015)

"Say yer prayers, varmint!"


> A bug in the latest version of Apple's OS X gives attackers the ability to obtain unfettered root user privileges... the vulnerability is present in both the current 10.10.4 (Yosemite) version of OS X and the current beta version of 10.10.5. Importantly, the current beta version of 10.11 is free of the flaw



Currently being actively exploited to gain remote access to 10.10/Yosemite Mac OS X machines. The hole was never present in OS X 10.9 and earlier.

http://arstechnica.com/security/201...x-gives-attackers-unfettered-root-privileges/


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2015)

LOl


----------



## weltweit (Aug 4, 2015)

As I just posted to the wrong thread, Apple has denied reporting that it is planning/trying to cut out mobile network operators profits on the sale of iPhones.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/04/us-apple-mobile-idUSKCN0Q91Q020150804


----------



## weltweit (Aug 5, 2015)

more comment in the same vein
http://www.techvoize.com/news/industry-news/apple/2015/08/05/apple-plans-to-become-a-mobile-carrier/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 8, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> I guess what will make it harder is apple have the best finger print scanner from what I heard.



Yup. Its the best around.


----------



## Mojofilter (Aug 9, 2015)

Ive used Apple Pay and it is indeed very slick, however I don't see it being anything more than a neat gimmick until it's so ubiquitous that I can leave my wallet at home.
It takes the same amount of time to get my phone out of my pocket as it does my wallet so  until then I don't really see the benefit.

I do look forward to not having to carry my wallet around though, I dunno if I have an unusually boney arse or something but I hate having nowhere to keep it other than my back pocket :/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 9, 2015)

The availability is the big issue for take up imo. I've never stood in a queue without my phone in my hand (I doubt many people do tbh) so it's far quicker to pay with it than my card...


----------



## Mojofilter (Aug 9, 2015)

But if you're in a queue you (or at least I) get my wallet out just before the person in front of me has finished. Either way it takes literally 2-3 seconds.
The fingerprint stuff adds a couple of seconds compared to contactless - not that I'm complaining - I'm just saying that the killer feature will be leaving your cards at home.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 9, 2015)

One advantage of a card though is that you can take money out with it. Old school I know, but there are certainly times it still comes in handy!


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2015)

It takes me nano seconds to plonk my card on a reader, and it sure seems easier than having to pull out my phone and hope I don't snag the earphone lead or faff about with fingerprint readers (and waste battery life each time).


----------



## 2hats (Aug 9, 2015)

editor said:


> It takes me nano seconds to plonk my card on a reader, and it sure seems easier than having to pull out my phone and hope I don't snag the earphone lead or faff about with fingerprint readers (and waste battery life each time).



Aside from ease of use of a dumb piece of RFID equipped plastic, another scenario in a busy transport hub/shop/other service location:

I drop/someone steals contactless payment card from my hands; outcome - I shrug shoulders, cancel card, get new card, in the meantime use a different card/cash.

I drop/someone steals phone from my hands; outcome - I have to work out what was on there, what might have been compromised, attempt to remotely nuke phone (need to find another handset/computer to do this ASAP), have to get phone replaced, have to restore data to new device, change passwords as a precaution, in the meantime social life is curtailed (malicious actors might even manipulate it and cause further harm at various levels), etc.

I'm reasonably happy with the dumb pieces of plastic as they permit me to independently sandbox the financial and personal data aspects.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2015)

2hats said:


> Aside from ease of use of a dumb piece of RFID equipped plastic, another scenario in a busy transport hub/shop/other service location:
> 
> I drop/someone steals contactless payment card from my hands; outcome - I shrug shoulders, cancel card, get new card, in the meantime use a different card/cash.
> 
> ...


Yep. Getting your phone out multiple times in crowded places presents a pointless risk when your card does the job equally well (well, better, actually seeing as it won't run out of power halfway through).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2015)

editor said:


> It takes me nano seconds to plonk my card on a reader, and it sure seems easier than having to pull out my phone and hope I don't snag the earphone lead or faff about with fingerprint readers (and waste battery life each time).



You carry your card around with you? It's super quick to plonk your iPhone down and the finger print reader is the best around so no problems at all.[emoji16]


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 12, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> One advantage of a card though is that you can take money out with it. Old school I know, but there are certainly times it still comes in handy!


 I've taken money out with the Nat West app on my phone a few times when I've forgotten my wallet. It's been possible for at least a year.


----------



## editor (Aug 12, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You carry your card around with you? It's super quick to plonk your iPhone down and the finger print reader is the best around so no problems at all.[emoji16]


Yes, it's also my Oyster Card and - get this - it needs no batteries and can be used everywhere.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 12, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> the finger print reader is the best around so no problems at all.[emoji16]


Like hell—it fails half the time for me now. Some recent update made it rubbish.


----------



## peterkro (Aug 12, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Like hell—it fails half the time for me now. Some recent update made it rubbish.


Bit odd mine works every time,mind you I'm to lazy to input both thumbs so I often pick it up in my right hand and then need to transfer to left to unlock it,though I've never had it refuse to unlock.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 12, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Bit odd mine works every time,mind you I'm to lazy to input both thumbs so I often pick it up in my right hand and then need to transfer to left to unlock it,though I've never had it refuse to unlock.


It seems to be a million times more sensitive to grease now. If I wipe both thumb and touchpad before trying it's generally fine, but it regularly refuses if I don't. It definitely was not like this a few months ago. I'm thinking of turning touch ID off completely.


----------



## peterkro (Aug 12, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It seems to be a million times more sensitive to grease now. If I wipe both thumb and touchpad before trying it's generally fine, but it regularly refuses if I don't. It definitely was not like this a few months ago. I'm thinking of turning touch ID off completely.


It's odd I never really wanted that feature but it seems to work well,it pisses me off that after 24hours (I think it is) you have to use the pin but aside from that it works fine and mine is jailbroken so you'd expect it to be more flaky than the stock ones.I don't treat it very well as far as keeping it clean goes but I've never had to wipe it before use (something that's not true about my debit card I have to pull it out and wipe often before it works.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 12, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've never stood in a queue without my phone in my hand (I doubt many people do tbh) ...


Eh? 

Why would you have your phone in your hand in a queue?


----------



## grit (Aug 12, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Like hell—it fails half the time for me now. Some recent update made it rubbish.



It's flawless on my 6.


----------



## editor (Aug 12, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Eh?
> 
> Why would you have your phone in your hand in a queue?


Because he's an Apple fan.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 12, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Eh?
> 
> Why would you have your phone in your hand in a queue?


Because waiting in a queue is often a good time to check emails, send a message to someone etc


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Because waiting in a queue is often a good time to check emails, send a message to someone etc


You don't think it's a bit odd to claim that you've never ever stood in any queue without a phone in your hand?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 13, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Because waiting in a queue is often a good time to check emails, send a message to someone etc


Occasionally maybe, but always?

That's pretty strange. There are quite a few things I'd be doing rather than texting or emailing people. More often than not I'll be listening to music with the phone tucked away in a pocket, talking to someone, or reading something.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 13, 2015)

I pretty much always check my phone when queuing. Even if its just a couple of people in front of me


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I pretty much always check my phone when queuing. Even if its just a couple of people in front of me


Even at the bar?


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 13, 2015)

editor said:


> Even at the bar?


yes


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> yes


Good luck getting served at a busy bar then.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 13, 2015)

editor said:


> Good luck getting served at a busy bar then.


 I've never had a problem


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I've never had a problem


Bit hard to catch the bar staff's eye if you're staring at your phone the whole time,  and it can be considered a bit rude.  I know who I'd serve first. The person looking at me.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 13, 2015)

editor said:


> Bit hard to catch the bar staff's eye if you're staring at your phone the whole time,  and it can be considered a bit rude.  I know who I'd serve first. The person looking at me.


I'm talking about queuing, not actually ordering the pints.


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> I'm talking about queuing, not actually ordering the pints.


People don't usually form orderly queues at busy bars, so if you're staring at the phone you'll be doing a lot more of the former and less of the latter.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 13, 2015)

editor said:


> People don't usually form orderly queues at busy bars, so if you're staring at the phone you'll be doing a lot more of the former and less of the latter.


Oh fuck off you annoying, terrible cunt


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Oh fuck off you annoying, terrible cunt


That's completely out of order.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 13, 2015)

A warning and some points! thanks, you power mad prick.


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> A warning and some points! thanks, you power mad prick.


I think you should stop now. There is no reason why I should have to take this abuse from you.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 13, 2015)

whatever you what, love.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 13, 2015)

If I could give points and warnings to everyone who called me a cunt on here, half the membership would be banned!


----------



## pesh (Aug 13, 2015)

I think they'd have done you first...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 14, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Like hell—it fails half the time for me now. Some recent update made it rubbish.



Well that's certainly scientific. Well done.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 14, 2015)

joustmaster said:


> Oh fuck off you annoying, terrible cunt



Easy fella, nothing you've said is far from the truth but you have to respect the fact that he can be hypocritical shit as much as anyone except that no one can ban him for it as this is his place.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 15, 2015)

pesh said:


> I think they'd have done you first...


Hmmm, random words.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 30, 2015)

Had a play with the new retina MacBook. Impressions:

- It's bloody light!
- Very nice design
- keyboard is very nice and not as odd as made out
- force touch is an excellent thing
- performance was solid, I opened tons of apps before I noticed slight slow down on opening times or switching between spaces

On that last point the reviews about performance are clearly bollox. This isn't a machine for running photoshop but for what you'll do day to day it's more than great.


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Had a play with the new retina MacBook. Impressions:
> 
> - It's bloody light!
> - Very nice design
> ...


How much does this machine that can't run Photoshop very well cost?


----------



## souljacker (Aug 30, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This isn't a machine for running photoshop but for what you'll do day to day it's more than great.



Eh? A macbook that can't run Photoshop? You'll be telling me it can't run Ableton next.

Sounds fucking shit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2015)

souljacker said:


> Eh? A macbook that can't run Photoshop? You'll be telling me it can't run Ableton next.
> 
> Sounds fucking shit.



I didn't say it can't I said it isn't the machine for running it. I'd never buy a MacBook Air for anything more than email/ web or office type work. If I want to run power hungry apps I'd get a Pro.


----------



## souljacker (Aug 31, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I didn't say it can't I said it isn't the machine for running it. I'd never buy a MacBook Air for anything more than email/ web or office type work. If I want to run power hungry apps I'd get a Pro.



I thought you were talking about a macbook, not an air (or are they the same now?). Surely an Air can run most shit though?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 31, 2015)

We were but I was defining what I meant by computing needs. I would never by anything other than a pro if I was doing photoshop or film editing for that matter.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

editor said:


> How much does this machine that can't run Photoshop very well cost?



TBH if you're trying to run photoshop on a normal macbook, you're not doing it right.

Macbook pros run photoshop and other processor intensive applications better.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

souljacker said:


> I thought you were talking about a macbook, not an air (or are they the same now?). Surely an Air can run most shit though?



There's the macbook, the macbook air and the macbook pro.

The macbook air is essentially an overpriced notebook, the macbook is a pretty standard laptop, and the macbook pro's are designed for more heavy duty software.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 1, 2015)

The Air isn't overpriced and the new Macbook is anything but standard. You're right about the pro though


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2015)

sim667 said:


> TBH if you're trying to run photoshop on a normal macbook, you're not doing it right.


What on earth does that mean? I've run on Photoshop with no problems on machines costing far less than an Air.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

editor said:


> What on earth does that mean? I've run on Photoshop with no problems on machines costing far less than an Air.



But we all know that cost isn't particularly relative to power when it comes to apple..... i.e. that apple machines are more expensive.

I've ridden bicycles over terrain where cars wouldn't be able to go...... bicycles cost much less than cars, so does that by default mean cars are useless and a waste of money for everyone? Of course it doesn't.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

Additionally saying it can't run photoshop is relative.....

if you're saying a much cheaper machine can run photoshop perfectly whilst editing a 1 mb 8 bit jpeg file...... but macbook air ran badly when you were editing a 1.5 gb 16 bit tiff then the comparison is hardly valid either


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2015)

sim667 said:


> But we all know that cost isn't particularly relative to power when it comes to apple..... i.e. that apple machines are more expensive.
> 
> I've ridden bicycles over terrain where cars wouldn't be able to go...... bicycles cost much less than cars, so does that by default mean cars are useless and a waste of money for everyone? Of course it doesn't.


That really doesn't make any kind of sense at all.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

editor said:


> That really doesn't make any kind of sense at all.



Can you give me the models of macbook air and "cheaper" device you used?  And the benchmark results you're using to make your assertions then?


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Can you give me the models of macbook air and "cheaper" device you used?  And the benchmark results you're using to make your assertions then?


Whatever for? I don't need to provide 'benchmarks' to prove that I managed to get work done in a timely fashion using Photoshop on a machine costing less than an Macbook Air because it's hardly a wildly contentious claim.

PS I've been using Photoshop for graphics since version 2.5 so I think I know a little bit about the program.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

editor said:


> Whatever for? I don't need to provide 'benchmarks' to prove that I managed to get work in a timely fashion using Photoshop on a machine costing less than an Macbook Air because it's hardly a wildly contentious claim.
> 
> PS I've been using Photoshop for graphics since version 2.5 so I think I know a little bit about the program.



So.... you've used a much cheaper computer that runs photoshop better, but you won't tell us what it is?


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2015)

sim667 said:


> So.... you've used a much cheaper computer that runs photoshop better, but you won't tell us what it is?


You've invented the use of the word 'better' there but if you're going to insist that there's no computer than can capably run Photoshop for less than the price of a Macbook Air you really have lost all perspective.

I can't be arsed to list the machines I've used because there is nothing more dull than a tedious spec-off. It runs, that's all that matters.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

editor said:


> You've invented the use of the word 'better' there but if you're going to insist that there's no computer than can capably run Photoshop for less than the price of a Macbook Air you really have lost all perspective.
> 
> I can't be arsed to list the machines I've used because there is nothing more dull than a tedious spec-off. It runs, that's all that matters.



Im not insisting there isn't a cheaper computer than can run photoshop better than a macbook air...... but if you won't even provide an example of one, it totally undermines the point you're trying to make. I mean are you comparing a 2009 macbook air to a cheaper 2015 machine, and then saying "well it runs photoshop better" because of course it will, and the comparison is then silly. Or are you comparing rendering HDR images on a macbook air, in comparison to editing a mobile phone picture on a cheaper machine, because then I'd also imagine the cheaper machine would be faster.

Im not interested in having a discussion about stuff if the other side is just going to repeatedly say "Its better because I said so"........ its totally pointless and subjective.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Im not insisting there isn't a cheaper computer than can run photoshop better than a macbook air...... but if you won't even provide an example of one, it totally undermines the point you're trying to make.


It really doesn't you know because you'd have to be quite unhinged to suggest that there isn't a laptop under £750 that isn't capable of running Photoshop very capably for all but the most advanced, heavy duty niche tasks.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

editor said:


> It really doesn't you know because you'd have to be quite unhinged to suggest that there isn't a laptop under £750 that isn't capable of running Photoshop very capably for all but the most advanced, heavy duty niche tasks.



Im not suggesting there isn't...... I'm questioning the difference in ability between the two and what benchmarks you're comparing..... after all are you genuinely saying that a macbook air is incapable of running photoshop? Because I've used photoshop on a macbook air.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Im not suggesting there isn't...... I'm questioning the difference in ability between the two and what benchmarks you're comparing..... after all are you genuinely saying that a macbook air is incapable of running photoshop? Because I've used photoshop on a macbook air.


You seem to have lost all track of who said what here.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 1, 2015)

A MacBook Air is perfectly fine for running Photoshop. 
If you're spending all day manipulating massive images then it's probably not ideal, but then no laptop would be. 

I dare say a MacBook would run Photoshop just as well as my 2011 MacBook Air (apparently they're about comparable in CPU power). The selling points of the MacBook are not its CPU power.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

editor said:


> You seem to have lost all track of who said what here.


I would say you're the one confused tbh


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 1, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I would say you're the one confused tbh



That's a very charitable assessment...


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's a very charitable assessment...


I wasn't the clueless idiot claiming that the Retina Macbook 'wasn't a machine for running Photoshop'.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

I wouldn't have thought someone who uses photoshop professionally and like the mac system would be inclined to buy a MacBook Air either. The MacBook airs aren't marketed at designers, Retouchers, musicians or film editors. They're marketed as shamelessly overpriced notebooks.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I wouldn't have thought someone who uses photoshop professionally and like the mac system would be inclined to buy a MacBook Air either. The MacBook airs aren't marketed at designers, Retouchers, musicians or film editors. They're marketed as shamelessly overpriced notebooks.


A designer posts: 


> I was facing the same question a fews months ago. I decided to go for the Air and i'm still happy with it. I work a lot with Photoshop and it's blazing fast, nothing to complain about. If I would have to make the choice again, I'll still go for the Air. Good luck!
> Macbook Pro vs Macbook Air – Designer News


----------



## sim667 (Sep 1, 2015)

editor said:


> A designer posts:



Well they didn't seem to have any problems running photoshop on it.

The point was never whether you could/couldn't run photoshop on it, the point was the notion that you've presumably run it on both if you're going to comment that cheaper machines run it better, but you weren't prepared to suggest whether the two machines you're talking about were comparable spec? I.e if you ran photoshop on a 2010 MacBook Air, and then complained it was slower than a 2014 generic model of laptop that cost less..... Then that's not really a true comparison as such.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 5, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I wouldn't have thought someone who uses photoshop professionally and like the mac system would be inclined to buy a MacBook Air either. The MacBook airs aren't marketed at designers, Retouchers, musicians or film editors. They're marketed as shamelessly overpriced notebooks.



That was the point I was making but the Editor is either going senile or just being his usual trolly wanker self.

It's not that you can't run that app on it just that you wouldn't buy that machine if that was something you are serious about you'd buy a pro.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 5, 2015)

I used an 11" Air professionally with apps more demanding than Photoshop for years.

Funnily enough the task I found it worst suited for was web design, which is easily the least system-intensive thing I did but is annoying to do on a 16:9 screen.


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That was the point I was making but the Editor is either going senile or just being his usual trolly wanker self.
> 
> It's not that you can't run that app on it just that you wouldn't buy that machine if that was something you are serious about you'd buy a pro.


And for that nasty and unwarranted abuse you get a warning. Stop it now please.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 6, 2015)

Stop aggressively trolling and I will. You've done nothing but act like a petulant child on this thread adding nothing but heat when others are seeking light.


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Stop aggressively trolling and I will. You've done nothing but act like a petulant child on this thread adding nothing but heat when others are seeking light.


Second warning.


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I used an 11" Air professionally with apps more demanding than Photoshop for years.
> 
> Funnily enough the task I found it worst suited for was web design, which is easily the least system-intensive thing I did but is annoying to do on a 16:9 screen.


I think all small screen laptops are tricky for web design. It gets really frustrating with so little screen space.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 7, 2015)

On a slightly more practical note.... Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the iPhone SDK from.... to recover some photos that were helpfully deleted during my last iOS upgrade, apple have told me to restore an old backup, grab the photos, and restore my last backup...... aint nobody got time fo' that.... so I thought if i could do it on the iPhone SDK it would be helpful.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2015)

Anyway. New stuff announced on Wednesday... New iPhone, almost certainly a new Apple TV and maybe a big iPad?

I'll almost certainly be acquiring the new phone ASAP as Aqua has had enough of Android and wants my current 5s. Just need to try and blag one for free from EE


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Anyway. New stuff announced on Wednesday... New iPhone, almost certainly a new Apple TV and maybe a big iPad?


The big iPad seems to have been coming for an eternity. Other manufacturers have already shown that there's some demand for a bigger screen, but the buzz over tablets does seem pretty much over now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2015)

Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced of the market for one but the rumours keep cropping up. Will be interesting to see what they do with the TV though.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 7, 2015)

Fuck this shit.. Surface Pro 4!!!!!! Can't wait!!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 7, 2015)

I would quite like an app store for the apple tv. I only really use mine for airplay, but there's much more I reckon I could do with them......

I thought my ps4 would take over from my apple tv for plex duties...... but plex on PS4 is absolutely useless!


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 7, 2015)

ipad pro rumours are reeding fast...


----------



## elbows (Sep 7, 2015)

sim667 said:


> On a slightly more practical note.... Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the iPhone SDK from.... to recover some photos that were helpfully deleted during my last iOS upgrade, apple have told me to restore an old backup, grab the photos, and restore my last backup...... aint nobody got time fo' that.... so I thought if i could do it on the iPhone SDK it would be helpful.



I don't know exactly what you think the SDK can do to help that? 

Software like this, which can restore photos from iTunes iOS device backup files may be more like it?

Recover iPhone, iPad or iPod photos from backups with Picturescue


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Sep 7, 2015)

Kanda said:


> Fuck this shit.. Surface Pro 4!!!!!! Can't wait!!


I know, I'm so close to buying one of the 3s, I'm waiting on that, a flagship windows 10 phone or some nice 27" monitors to come up. Someone will take my money, just no idea who yet...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 7, 2015)

elbows said:


> I don't know exactly what you think the SDK can do to help that?
> 
> Software like this, which can restore photos from iTunes iOS device backup files may be more like it?
> 
> Recover iPhone, iPad or iPod photos from backups with Picturescue


I came across ibakcup which I'm going to give a bash I think


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 9, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I would quite like an app store for the apple tv. I only really use mine for airplay, but there's much more I reckon I could do with them......


Exactly the same. Looking forward to seeing what new things are announced for it.


----------



## elbows (Sep 9, 2015)

Oh no, large auditorium = extra level of crowd frenzy noises. Especially as loads of noisy employees are there.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2015)

elbows said:


> Oh no, large auditorium = extra level of crowd frenzy noises. Especially as loads of noisy employees are there.


I went to an Apple press launch event once. It felt like a Scientology convention.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 9, 2015)

Twit TV is always good to watch live with their irreverent chit-chat ...


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 9, 2015)

First world 'worried well' watch updates, boring first twenty minutes - How about the Doctor being with the mum-to-be rather than looking at his watch?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 9, 2015)

It seems Apple have reimagined the pencil, according to my twitter anyway.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 9, 2015)




----------



## RedDragon (Sep 9, 2015)

Gosh, Urban has really become a dead zone as far as Apple coverage, a tech north Korea 

I'm switching to Twitter for updates/feedback


----------



## sim667 (Sep 9, 2015)

New iPad pro looks alright, and the new Apple TV, bet tvos is only on new apple tv's though


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2015)

The camera on the phone looks rather good


----------



## Gromit (Sep 9, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The camera on the phone looks rather good



Selfies will use the whole screen for flash. Watch vain yewths drain their phone in less than an hour.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2015)

Apple: People don't want large screens on phone
Fanboys: You're so right!
Samsung invents the Note, sales go wild
Apple: We're changing everything again! Here's our large screen phone!

Apple: Styluses are so dead! LOL!
Fanboys: You're so right!
Samsung introduces the Note with stylus, sales go wild
Apple: We're changing everything again!  Here's our stylus!

Apple: People don't want large sized tablets
Fanboys: You're so right!
Microsoft creates the Surface Pro large screen tablet convertible
Apple: We're changing everything again!  Here's our large screen tablet convertible


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2015)

One Republic are proper shite corporate shills aren't they. Awful gash mainstream rock. *mutes*


----------



## Gromit (Sep 9, 2015)

Actually I don't want a large screen phone. I hope the option for smaller phones never disappears.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> One Republic are proper shite corporate shills aren't they. Awful gash mainstream rock. *mutes*


What is One Republic?


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 9, 2015)

Apple TV is an upgrade 5 years out of date, and not 4K, seriously?


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Actually I don't want a large screen phone. I hope the option for smaller phones never disappears.


Oh, they're not for everyone, but they're awfully popular amongst an awful lot of people.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2015)

editor said:


> What is One Republic?



The band Tom Cook has just introduced on stage. They're an *awesome* world touring multi platinum selling group etc.

ETA. At least its not U2


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 9, 2015)

The $32 a month for a yearly upgrade, not very echo, but matching US carriers offers.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2015)

RedDragon said:


> Apple TV is an upgrade 5 years out of date, and not 4K, seriously?


Not quite sure how you see it as 5 years out of date, the slick interface and Siri searching looks miles ahead of any other TV system I've used. I love my WD TV box but the interface is clunky as hell. As for 4K, meh. HD is more than fine for most people.

Will be interesting to see what apps developers come up with. That's the make or break thing really...


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> ETA. At least its not U2


Be grateful for small mercies.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Actually I don't want a large screen phone. I hope the option for smaller phones never disappears.


I'm resigned to having to go slightly larger and get a 6s. Would still much prefer if they'd kept it the same size as my 5s though.

As for the iPad Pro? Meh. Not for me. I'm sure someone out there wants one though


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 9, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Not quite sure how you see it as 5 years out of date, the slick interface and Siri searching looks miles ahead of any other TV system I've used. I love my WD TV box but the interface is clunky as hell. As for 4K, meh. HD is more than fine for most people.
> 
> Will be interesting to see what apps developers come up with. That's the make or break thing really...


OK, I was a bit over the top, I'm a disappointed fanboi, Siri search is still just a catch-up.  But what irritates is that on the new iP6s I can recorded 4k video, assuming I have a 4k screen, I'd be unable to view via the new Apple TV. That's not streamlined,


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2015)

This went on for so long I lost interest half way through...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2015)

RedDragon said:


> OK, I was a bit over the top, I'm a disappointed fanboi, Siri search is still just a catch-up.  But what irritates is that on the new iP6s I can recorded 4k video, assuming I have a 4k screen, I'd be unable to view via the new Apple TV. That's not streamlined,


That's where you spend more money on a 27" iMac


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 9, 2015)

I couldn't workout the difference between 3D touch and say the accent selection on the keyboard. 

Has 'live photo's' been explained; is it GIF or video?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2015)

RedDragon said:


> I couldn't workout the difference between 3D touch and say the accent selection on the keyboard.
> 
> Has 'live photo's' been explained; is it GIF or video?


It's a "live photo". My guess is that it will be an Apple only thing.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 9, 2015)

RedDragon said:


> I couldn't workout the difference between 3D touch and say the accent selection on the keyboard.
> 
> Has 'live photo's' been explained; is it GIF or video?



Its a photo file, with extra files linked to it.  The extra files will be something like video i guess.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

So that iPad Pro is just one big rip off of Microsoft Surface, then, and one with a ton of flaws for its intended market:



> If you buy an iPad Pro, you're trapped. Even though it has a powerful A9X brain to deliver faster compute and graphics capabilities, it doesn't address the needs of real-world computing. Without support for legacy ports, the iPad Pro's potential in the enterprise space is severely limited, unless IT administrators fully commit to Apple's ecosystem.
> 
> The iPad Pro lacks a USB port, which means you can't readily backup, transfer or share data via a USB flash drive. It also lacks a native DisplayPort, mini DisplayPort or HDMI port for video output, meaning you'll need an Apple TV and Wi-Fi to mirror your tablet's screen to a larger display to give presentations. And without a proper video output port, it also means you can't use it as a desktop replacement by connecting an even larger monitor to your tablet.
> 
> These are all basic capabilities that Microsoft has built into the Surface Pro 3.


5 reasons Surface Pro is a better tablet for businesses than iPad Pro | TechRadar


----------



## mhendo (Sep 10, 2015)

editor said:


> So that iPad Pro is just one big rip off of Microsoft Surface, then, and one with a ton of flaws for its intended market:


Not only that, its not really even a ripoff of the Surface; it's a ripoff of the Surface RT. Because it runs iOS rather than the full Apple operating system, you can't run a full gamut of desktop software on it the way you can with a Surface. The only stuff you can run is stuff that has a specialized iOS app, and that's a very limited range of software compared to what's available for OSX.

These Apple announcement days drive me crazy. Apple make some absolutely fantastic products—my wife loves her Macbook Air, and if i were a squillionaire i'd buy one of those cylindrical Mac Pro jobs with a $2000 Xeon processor and 420 kajillion GB of RAM—but the bullshit hype of the launch days, combined with the squealing excitement of fanboys creaming their pants over minor and totally predictable hardware and ergonomic improvements, makes me want to punch them all in their fucking faces.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2015)

editor said:


> So that iPad Pro is just one big rip off of Microsoft Surface, then, and one with a ton of flaws for its intended market:
> 
> 5 reasons Surface Pro is a better tablet for businesses than iPad Pro | TechRadar



I was under the impression it still had a lighting port, so you can get usb/video out adapters..... have I misunderstood that?

In all honesty I have an iPhone and iPad as they work well with my mac computers..... I'm not bothered about the iPad pro or whatever its called.

As long as apple keep making banging computers, ill probably keep buying the other bits and pieces too.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 10, 2015)

I think the iPad Pro will be a huge hit in the Pro Music sector. Apart from that, I can't see the point of it.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2015)

souljacker said:


> I think the iPad Pro will be a huge hit in the Pro Music sector. Apart from that, I can't see the point of it.



i can see illustrators using it


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

mhendo said:


> These Apple announcement days drive me crazy. Apple make some absolutely fantastic products—my wife loves her Macbook Air, and if i were a squillionaire i'd buy one of those cylindrical Mac Pro jobs with a $2000 Xeon processor and 420 kajillion GB of RAM—but the bullshit hype of the launch days, combined with the squealing excitement of fanboys creaming their pants over minor and totally predictable hardware and ergonomic improvements, makes me want to punch them all in their fucking faces.


I'll never forget the nauseating whopping of ecstatic joy when a minor memory upgrade to the iPod was announced. Utter dickheads.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2015)

editor said:


> I'll never forget the nauseating whopping of ecstatic joy when a minor memory upgrade to the iPod was announced. Utter dickheads.



They bring apple employees in to whoop though don't they.

I'd imagine their jobs are on the line if they don't..... lets not forget, apple is like the DPRK of the tech industry.

Steve jobbs once found a unicorns layer just outside San Francisco.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

sim667 said:


> They bring apple employees in to whoop though don't they.
> 
> I'd imagine their jobs are on the line if they don't..... lets not forget, apple is like the DPRK of the tech industry.
> 
> Steve jobbs once found a unicorns layer just outside San Francisco.


There were certainly in-house whoopers next to me, but some of the tech writers were also wetting themselves at the prospect of a tiny incremental update. One Apple press launch was enough for me - just like mhendo  I had to fight the urge of punching  some of the pathetic fuckers in the face.


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2015)

If I could draw then I'd want to evaluate the iPad pro 'pencil' against other options. It needs to be able to do something special to make up for the fact you have to recharge the pencil, its not passive like wacom etc styluses.

But I can't draw, and the only thing I'm potentially in the market for at the moment is a laptop replacement. I don't need my laptop to be as powerful as I did in the past, so tablets tempt me. But I really doubt that iOS can quite replace my laptop yet, close but no cigar. For me not being able to attach usb storage isn't that much of an issue - the main issue for me is lack of mouse/pointer. A convertible without a mouse pointer doesn't really do that side of the job for me.

I kind of wanted to get excited about the possibilities of developing apps for the apple tv, but so far the remote control has put me off. Maybe its really good but I wasn't convinced by the presentation, will have to try one for myself one day.


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2015)

And yes as a long-term fan of music-making apps on the iPad, the iPad pro excites me on that front. But I've almost no prospect of having that sort of cash available for such a device in the next few years, not without finding multiple other genuine daily uses for it.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

elbows said:


> If I could draw then I'd want to evaluate the iPad pro 'pencil' against other options. It needs to be able to do something special to make up for the fact you have to recharge the pencil, its not passive like wacom etc styluses.
> 
> But I can't draw, and the only thing I'm potentially in the market for at the moment is a laptop replacement. I don't need my laptop to be as powerful as I did in the past, so tablets tempt me. But I really doubt that iOS can quite replace my laptop yet, close but no cigar. For me not being able to attach usb storage isn't that much of an issue - the main issue for me is lack of mouse/pointer. A convertible without a mouse pointer doesn't really do that side of the job for me.
> 
> I kind of wanted to get excited about the possibilities of developing apps for the apple tv, but so far the remote control has put me off. Maybe its really good but I wasn't convinced by the presentation, will have to try one for myself one day.


I know I've banged on about it a bit, but my Android Asus Transformer has just about completely replaced my laptop. In fact, I haven't used my swishy Core i5 Vaio at all in the last year.

It's a tablet with a proper keyboard - not those fiddly bolt on things - and the presence of a SD card slot and USB means that I can use it on the road for backing up, editing and publishing photos. I use a mouse if I've got a lot to work and it makes a real difference to productivity, and my next laptop is most likely to be another Android job if something suitable comes up.

There's some apps that allow multi windows and once that's sorted, I can't see a lot of point for a Windows (or indeed Mac) laptop unless I've got some specialist work to do.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 10, 2015)

editor said:


> There were certainly in-house whoopers next to me, but some of the tech writers were also wetting themselves at the prospect of a tiny incremental update. One Apple press launch was enough for me - just mhendo  I had to fight the urge of punching  some of the pathetic fuckers in the face.


I went to an Apple store opening (free t-shirts,even though they said Cribbs Causeway on the front) and though I have no direct evidence for this I'm pretty sure most of the whoopers and hollers were drama school students hired for the day.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

peterkro said:


> I went to an Apple store opening (free t-shirts,even though they said Cribbs Causeway on the front) and though I have no direct evidence for this I'm pretty sure most of the whoopers and hollers were drama school students hired for the day.


Those self-applauding Apple openings have real parallels with dodgy religions like Scientology. Whooping and cheering people on just because they're buying expensive products is vile.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Sep 10, 2015)

You've got to charge the stylus?

It does read like a first gen Surface RT, albeit with the single biggest weakness (the lack of apps) fixed. That will really help, as will the apple badge of course. It's lighter, got the apps and the name, it should make a decent addition to the iPad range. On the other hand it's depressing just how many shitty reviews are just mindlessly repeating the Apple blurb especially about the CPU 

In the majority of business based use cases the Surface lineup pisses all over this. Where's the bloody USB ports!?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2015)

editor said:


> Those self-applauding Apple openings have real parallels with dodgy religions like Scientology. Whooping and cheering people on just because they're buying expensive products is vile.




I've been for 2 interviews with apple, and both times decided I couldn't be bothered with shit like this.

I got pissed off with the fact its like 3 interviews to get a job as a shop bod, and they won't let you go for technical jobs without doing the shop stuff first...... I bet technically I could devastate some of their "geniuses"..... although I can't imagine all my techniques would be "to policy"


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2015)

I couldn't work for them because its very much the modern equivalent of all that terrible corporate cultural shit we were shown taking place in other cultures (USA, Japan etc) in the 80's/90's.  And that stuff was basically attempting to harness some social phenomenon that churches and states use to whip up a sense of belonging, loyalty, belief etc. harnessing the power of song, 'motivational speeches', and the energy you can get from mass assemblies. A mini Nuremberg rally to start the corporate day.

And its no secret that Jobs went to places like Japan decades ago, really loved that shit,and tried to bring as much of it to his US corporation as possible.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

elbows said:


> I couldn't work for them because its very much the modern equivalent of all that terrible corporate cultural shit we were shown taking place in other cultures (USA, Japan etc) in the 80's/90's.  And that stuff was basically attempting to harness some social phenomenon that churches and states use to whip up a sense of belonging, loyalty, belief etc. harnessing the power of song, 'motivational speeches', and the energy you can get from mass assemblies. A mini Nuremberg rally to start the corporate day.


It's ultra-American and just about everything I hate about corporate business culture so I won't be manning the _Genius Bar_ any time soon. Even the fucking name makes me sick up a bit.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 10, 2015)

I love OS X it's rock solid reliable even on non Apple hardware.the company not so much. Read recently that they are going to change software developers who may wish to write plugins for Safari. Wtf???


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2015)

teqniq said:


> I love OS X it's rock solid reliable even on non Apple hardware.the company not so much. Read recently that they are going to change software developers who may wish to write plugins for Safari. Wtf???



Its a really poor consequence of changes to their other developer programs that are otherwise an improvement on the previous charging model. 

Apple's Great New Developer Program Screws Over Safari Devs


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2015)

do people even develop for safari much? I use safari daily and don't use a single plugin


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2015)

sim667 said:


> do people even develop for safari much? I use safari daily and don't use a single plugin


Adblock and Social Fixer are the only ones I have. Never felt the need for anything else.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Adblock and Social Fixer are the only ones I have. Never felt the need for anything else.



there's a built in pop up blocker on safari anyway.... i don't mind ads too much generally..... i have literally no idea what social fixer is.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Adblock and Social Fixer are the only ones I have. Never felt the need for anything else.


Ad blockers can destroy the incomes and viability of independent websites and niche bloggers...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2015)

editor said:


> Ad blockers can destroy the incomes and viability of independent websites and niche bloggers...


*shrugs*

As I will never, ever click on any ad I can't see that they'll be losing out from me.



sim667 said:


> there's a built in pop up blocker on safari anyway.... i don't mind ads too much generally..... i have literally no idea what social fixer is.


Social Fixer for Facebook fixes annoyances, adds features, and enhances existing functionality to make Facebook more fun and efficient

Makes Facebook a hell of a lot nicer to use.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 10, 2015)

I'm sur


editor said:


> Ad blockers can destroy the incomes and viability of independent websites and niche bloggers...



I turn ad-block off for those, and leave it on for YouTube and any site which overdoes ads (and there are many!)


----------



## The Boy (Sep 10, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> *shrugs*
> 
> As I will never, ever click on any ad I can't see that they'll be losing out from me.



Ad revenues are based on views, aren't they, so blocking the ads reduces the number of views for said ad, reduces revenue for the site.  Or some shit like that.

Personally, i use adblocker and only switch it on if the ads interfere with use of the website - like those animated adverts that sit over the page when you're in the middle of an article.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2015)

The Boy said:


> Ad revenues are based on views, aren't they, so blocking the ads reduces the number of views for said ad, reduces revenue for the site.  Or some shit like that.
> 
> Personally, i use adblocker and only switch it on if the ads interfere with use of the website - like those animated adverts that sit over the page when you're in the middle of an article.


I thought it was on clicks? Either way, I don't want to see them.


----------



## The Boy (Sep 10, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I thought it was on clicks? Either way, I don't want to see them.



Might vary between ad-providers, but the admins on a cycling board I post on are always moaning about people using ad-blockers costing them money due to lost views.  It's also one of the sites I insist on having ad-blocker turned on as said adverts interfere with my ability to use the site.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I thought it was on clicks? Either way, I don't want to see them.


No one wants to see them, but for some small blogs it's the only way they can survive.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 10, 2015)

Unobtrusive ads are alright, but on some links I click on Facebook on my phone they have reached new levels. They can fuck right off, I'd rather not see their content.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2015)

I run a small blog.... it cost me nothing to set up and I have no overheads.

That said, no fucked reads it


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I run a small blog.... it cost me nothing to set up and I have no overheads.
> 
> That said, no fucked reads it


If you got a load of traffic, you'd have to start paying server fees - and then that income from ads might come in useful.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Unobtrusive ads are alright, but on some links I click on Facebook on my phone they have reached new levels. They can fuck right off, I'd rather not see their content.


Well, If I understand things correctly add blockers will soon be available on iOS  I can't wait...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 10, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I run a small blog.... it cost me nothing to set up and I have no overheads.
> 
> That said, no fucked reads it



Sounds like you need some ads of your own!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 10, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, If I understand things correctly add blockers will soon be available on iOS  I can't wait...



Apparently you can on Android, but it means rooting


----------



## mhendo (Sep 10, 2015)

sim667 said:


> They bring apple employees in to whoop though don't they.


For in-store product launches, i'm sure that's true. I'm thinking more about all of the bloggers, especially business and tech bloggers who, instead of turning a thoughtful and critical eye on a corporate advertising show, basically turn into cheerleaders for the stuff they're supposed to be evaluating.

This idiot is a prime example.



This is a guy who's not only a blogger, but writes articles on the tech industry for outlets like Slate and the New York Times.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 10, 2015)

Live Photos sounds a bit like Google's Auto Awesome thing to me. Is there something different?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 10, 2015)

You'll probably get people acting like twats for 3 seconds every time they take a photo from now on.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

souljacker said:


> Live Photos sounds a bit like Google's Auto Awesome thing to me. Is there something different?


Because all photos always look better when they've been pointlessly animated for a few seconds.

Listen to this fucking idiot: 


> As my colleague Sam Byford mused today in _The Verge_ Slack room, "what’s the point of Cartier-Bresson capturing ‘the decisive moment’ if you can just scroll through a few seconds on either side and change the composition? The power of a photo is in what isn’t shown."


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

mhendo said:


> For in-store product launches, i'm sure that's true. I'm thinking more about all of the bloggers, especially business and tech bloggers who, instead of turning a thoughtful and critical eye on a corporate advertising show, basically turn into cheerleaders for the stuff they're supposed to be evaluating.
> 
> This idiot is a prime example.
> 
> ...


He's just another pointless Apple fanboy churning out uncritical shit in return for the benefits of being a favoured reporter by Apple.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2015)

I liked this guy's take on the new products: A Layman's Guide To The New iPhones, And Apple's Other New Crap


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2015)

So that was a long keynote...

> IPhone 6S - well hardly a surprise, Apple have made right click for a touch enabled mobile device sound like a thing. Personally I can't see much value in it, I don't have my camera app accessible and take photos by swiping up in lock view...
> Apple Watch - as expected and mostly welcome for those who have one and like it I guess? I'm not a watch wearer but those Hermes straps actually looked quite cool.
> Big iPad and Apple Pencil - um ok. Pencil is nice and simple with cool tech and I'll lay money the other iPads will get use of it next year. The big iPad is BIG and great for those who er want a big iPad. That keyboard looks cheap.
> Apple TV - well now this was the most interesting part of the show. Streamlining services with some very cool Siri integration is pretty nice but the gaming and Apps is where I think it gets interesting. Apple now have a console to eat up all those casual iPhone gamers' eyeball time with. If they get quality IP like Bomberman on to it they're on to a winner (Transistor is EXCELLENT btw). Think this could be a bit play for the future of home gaming too; the next gen are likely to be no physical media, Netflix style delivery model using cloud computing for the gfx power. Apple are now positioned to take that on in a few years.


----------



## mhendo (Sep 11, 2015)

I don't know if anyone's posted this in the thread yet, but i love this comic from 2012. Talk about prescient, down to the correct year:


----------



## adidaswoody (Sep 11, 2015)

Apple games console coming I heard! I think they should make a super console, sell it for a grand but make it with a super laser that can ready any disk, any game from any co sole already made! They would make a killing


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2015)

editor said:


> Because all photos always look better when they've been pointlessly animated for a few seconds.
> 
> Listen to this fucking idiot:


The ability to move the composition on a photo back in time if you slightly mistimed it would be fantastic. I'm not sure that is what's possible with this new Apple thingy.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2015)

adidaswoody said:


> Apple games console coming I heard! I think they should make a super console, sell it for a grand but make it with a super laser that can ready any disk, any game from any co sole already made! They would make a killing


Never going to happen


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 11, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> >
> > Apple TV - well now this was the most interesting part of the show. Streamlining services with some very cool Siri integration is pretty nice but the gaming and Apps is where I think it gets interesting. Apple now have a console to eat up all those casual iPhone gamers' eyeball time with. If they get quality IP like Bomberman on to it they're on to a winner (Transistor is EXCELLENT btw). Think this could be a bit play for the future of home gaming too; the next gen are likely to be no physical media, Netflix style delivery model using cloud computing for the gfx power. Apple are now positioned to take that on in a few years.



Yup, cheap set top boxes may be an important part of the gaming market with everything streamed. We need far better fast broadband provision outside big cities for that to happen though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2015)

Also - I do wish everyone would stop rolling out that Jobs "if you see a stylus..." quote. He was talking about a small (3.5" screen) handheld device that was going up against the shitty resistive touch screen PDA's and smartphones available at the time. To use that quote years later against a device that is quite clearly designed for completely different tasks and situations is idiotic at best.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 11, 2015)

The Apple TV is going for the casual gamers...those that bought a Wii as a first console, and haven't bought another since.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Also - I do wish everyone would stop rolling out that Jobs "if you see a stylus..." quote. He was talking about a small (3.5" screen) handheld device that was going up against the shitty resistive touch screen PDA's and smartphones available at the time. To use that quote years later against a device that is quite clearly designed for completely different tasks and situations is idiotic at best.


No, that's not true., 

He was clearly talking about the concept of a stylus as a means of interacting with a device. 



> "Who wants a stylus?" Jobs said while introducing the iPhone. "You have to get 'em, put 'em away, you lose 'em. Yuck! Nobody wants a stylus. So let's not use a stylus."


He got that totally wrong, just like he completely failed to understand the appeal of larger screen phones (which Apple eventually copied after Samsung had led the field) and smaller, sub 10"  screen tablets (which Apple eventually copied too).



> Small tablets
> 
> Another epic Jobs rant came in October 2010, when he discussed his disdain for a new wave of smaller tablets coming to market.
> 
> ...


And here's why he remains an utter cunt in my book: 


> Philanthropy
> Among the first things Jobs did in his 1997 return to Apple (after he banished all styluses) was to end Apple's philanthropic giving programs. He said he wanted to bring Apple back to profitability, but he never reinstated the programs even after Apple posted some of the biggest profits ever recorded by a public company.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2015)

A cunt he may have been, but no, in that instance he was quite clearly talking about the phone. Because, you know, he was introducing the phone.

The small tablet thing he was obviously wrong about. On "phablet" sized phones though I still agree with him. They're horrible.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A cunt he may have been, but no, in that instance he was quite clearly talking about the phone. Because, you know, he was introducing the phone.
> 
> The small tablet thing he was obviously wrong about. On "phablet" sized phones though I still agree with him. They're horrible.


So the new Apple Stylus/pencil doesn't have to be be got out, never has to be put away and never gets lost? Glad you cleared that one up.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Sep 11, 2015)

editor said:


> So the new Apple Stylus/pencil doesn't have to be be got out, never has to be put away and never gets lost? Glad you cleared that one up.


It's not really news to say that he got things wrong. Not on this forum at least 

Needing a stylus is slightly different to having the option of being able to use a stylus. Which is relevant when at the time the stylus was needed for interfaces on some devices. Context softens the statement but yeah, still a bit wrong now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2015)

editor said:


> So the new Apple Stylus/pencil doesn't have to be be got out, never has to be put away and never gets lost? Glad you cleared that one up.


Look at what it will be used for - graphics work etc. almost inevitably at a desk. It is by no means essential to have it to use the Pro. He was quite clearly referring to the old style of PDA or Windows mobile phones that required you to use as stylus for the basic operation of them. For what he was talking about _at the time_ he was 100% right.

But, as ever, anything to bash Apple gets lept upon, even if it's so wide of the mark as to be laughable. Just concentrate on the myriad of genuine criticisms that can be levelled at them, there's plenty...


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Look at what it will be used for - graphics work etc. almost inevitably at a desk.


Blimey. The whole point of the iPad Pro is that it's portable, but it's great to see Apple have apparently fixed the problem of losing styluses and that Jobs was right all along.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2015)

editor said:


> Blimey. The whole point of the iPad Pro is that it's portable, but it's great to see Apple have apparently fixed the problem of losing styluses and that Jobs was right all along.


*the slow steady sound of a head being banged against a brick wall*


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> *the slow steady sound of a head being banged against a brick wall*


No, it's  you that's being ridiculously stubborn here with your blind Apple love. It's a stylus. They get lost. And that was one of the _very reasons _that Jobs derided them, and that remains the same whether you're using one on a teensy weensy phone or a five foot tablet. He was wrong, end of.

Back to the products, there's a fair New Apple TV vs Chromecast vs Roku 3 vs Amazon Fire TV review here.



> The new Apple TV is by far the most advanced smart TV box of the lot and you'd expect that - it's far more ambitious than the others, it's so brand new it's not out for another month, and it's also a great deal more expensive.
> 
> You could buy a Chromecast for yourself and one each for four mates for the same price as the bottom-end new Apple TV and that's a big deal.
> 
> ...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 11, 2015)

The one thing that pricked my ears about the iPad Pro was the apparent 4x loudness. We have an iPad Air, and it's surprisingly loud already. I can imagine that 4x that volume will sound pretty damn good!


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> The one thing that pricked my ears about the iPad Pro was the apparent 4x loudness. We have an iPad Air, and it's surprisingly loud already. I can imagine that 4x that volume will sound pretty damn good!


It's going to be pretty tinny though, no?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2015)

One thing that stylus's have never done well is coped with pressure, and being used at an angle.

It will be interesting to see if they've improved on say for example, wacom stylus's which are pretty dire, despite being a market leader in stylus input for design.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

sim667 said:


> One thing that stylus's have never done well is coped with pressure, and being used at an angle.
> 
> It will be interesting to see if they've improved on say for example, wacom stylus's which are pretty dire, despite being a market leader in stylus input for design.


I bought a high end Wacom A4 tablet in the hope it would be good for sketching, but I still find it easier to draw with a pen and paper and scan it in. It's good for retouching work though.

Although I'm sure the pen will be buttery smooth on the iPad Pro, if it won't run Photoshop, I imagine it'll be pretty useless to most designers.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 11, 2015)

editor said:


> It's going to be pretty tinny though, no?



The iPad Air sounds perfectly good enough for the odd bit of music and a film, impressive even. So if this is an improvement then I can't wait to hear it in action.

(Obviously I am not comparing it to a decent set of speakers or anything)


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> The iPad Air sounds perfectly good enough for the odd bit of music and a film, impressive even. So if this is an improvement then I can't wait to hear it in action.
> 
> (Obviously I am not comparing it to a decent set of speakers or anything)


Yeah, that big screen will be ruddy great for watching a film in bed (notwithstanding the annoyance of getting a table to stand up in exactly the right position when you're chilling horizontally!).


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2015)

editor said:


> I bought a high end Wacom A4 tablet in the hope it would be good for sketching, but I still find it easier to draw with a pen and paper and scan it in. It's good for retouching work though.
> 
> Although I'm sure the pen will be buttery smooth on the iPad Pro, if it won't run Photoshop, I imagine it'll be pretty useless to most designers.



I always found them good for retouching, but i knew illustrators who hated using them.

Didn't they demo a version of photoshop on the iPad pro too?


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I always found them good for retouching, but i knew illustrators who hated using them.
> 
> Didn't they demo a version of photoshop on the iPad pro too?


It's a stripped down version.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2015)

editor said:


> It's a stripped down version.


There's a lot of stuff in the full version that is rarely used.

I guess it depends on what they've stripped out


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2015)

sim667 said:


> There's a lot of stuff in the full version that is rarely used.
> 
> I guess it depends on what they've stripped out


Yeah. I often use my iPad with the stripped down AutoCAD on site visits, it's OK to get basic bits down on site, then back at home it all gets moved onto the full version on a laptop for completion. 

I think, in spite of what Apple may try and tell you, the Pro won't replace a laptop, it will just be yet another addition/tool to the Apple ecosystem. Their kit works so well together, you just pick whatever works best for the task there and then, seamlessly moving to another later on if need be. It's a fantastic way to work IMHO, but bloody expensive.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

I don't like it, but the Surface Pro (which Apple have clearly copied here) looks much better value all round and comes with the advantage of being able to run full fat versions of desktop software, so there's no learning new interfaces or compromises needed. Of course, if you're hooked in deep into Apple world and have the spare cash, then the iPad Pro is the only choice.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 11, 2015)

What I don't like about the MS surface pro, or this iPad copy of that design, are those soft keyboards with the sticky-out back support which means they're only really suited for using on a desk with the keyboard

They should've taken a leaf out of ASUS Transformer book and made a more solid keyboard that clicks in securely and lets you tilt the screen further, and carry from the base keyboard, so you can use on your lap/in bed etc with the keyboard without it collapsing on itself.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> What I don't like about the MS surface pro, or this iPad copy of that design, are those soft keyboards with the sticky-out back support which means they're only really suited for using on a desk with the keyboard. They should've taken a leaf out of ASUS and made a more solid keyboard that clicks in and lets you tilt the screen further, and use on your lap/in bed etc with the keyboard secure an entact.


I don't like them either. Fiddly.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> What I don't like about the MS surface pro, or this iPad copy of that design, are those soft keyboards with the sticky-out back support which means they're only really suited for using on a desk with the keyboard
> 
> They should've taken a leaf out of ASUS Transformer book and made a more solid keyboard that clicks in securely and lets you tilt the screen further, and carry from the base keyboard, so you can use on your lap/in bed etc with the keyboard without it collapsing on itself.



They are letting at least one third party make a more solid keyboard - logitech, though I haven't checked its spec and design features in full.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2015)

Regarding Jobs and the stylus - the point about those sort of utterances from Jobs was not whether he got it wrong, made a bad prediction or whether Apple would have u-turned if he had still been alive. His modus operandi on this front was pretty clear - regardless of what products Apple may come out with one day, the aim was to convince people that the product they were coming out with at that moment in time was great, and that competitors were shit. The nature of his personality and 'reality distortion field' means he wouldn't have a problem (in his own mind) saying the complete opposite a few years later.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 11, 2015)

elbows said:


> They are letting at least one third party make a more solid keyboard - logitech, though I haven't checked its spec and design features in full.



My wife has a bluetooth logitech keyboard for her ipad, and to be fair it's pretty solid and does the job as well as anything could. However, it doesn't lock in like a proper keyboard needs to if you're using it in various different situations, so it has quite often fallen out when tilted or moved too quick. Plus you can't angle it.

I still say the ASUS Transformer has got it just about right in that regard. The problem still remains that tablets locking into keyboards are always top heavy unless you make a counter-weighted keyboard to balance it, which is just unnecessary weight.

So for me, the macbook air is pretty much perfect.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> So for me, the macbook air is pretty much perfect.


Tis a wonderful machine but once you get used to a touchscreen on a small laptop, there's no way you can go back, and I've never been impressed with any of the bolt on Bluetooth keyboards. The Asus has got it pretty much spot on - I don't really get the toppling over thing but I can see how it's possible. If the keys were backlit it would be nearly perfect (I don't mind it being slightly chunky - in fact I find its metallic girth reassuring when it's rammed into a full backpack).


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 11, 2015)

*conspiracy theory hat on*

There have been 3rd party styluses for iPads for ages, for creative types. People have been making spectacular work on their iPads for years. With the release of the Air things started getting a bit sketchy (fnar). With the Air 2 almost all pressure sensitivity control was lost, due to the way the screen was bonded. Cue lots of grumpy arty types. Indeed, I plumped for a reconditioned Air 1 because it still had decent stylus support, although an older pre-Air model would have been even better.

And now we have the new model announced, with their own stylus, said to be great for creative types.

I'm calling it. They broke stylus support for one and a half generations so they could ensure 1) people would definitely upgrade when the new one comes out since they won't have done to the Air 2 at the very least; 2) they can corner the stylus market afresh, since companies have all but shelved their iPad stylus development in the past couple of years because they wouldn't work.

AND I bet they are responsible for 9/11.

*takes off loonspud hat*


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2015)

If memory serves me correctly they also messed around with app developers who had used stuff like 'detecting amount of finger touching screen' as a crude but somewhat effective way of emulating a few levels of pressure, e.g. in some music apps. They told the developers they had to remove such functionality from their apps.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2015)

Looks like Jony Ive is as big a twat as Jobs. 

Apple's Jony Ive gets his panties in a bunch over a puppet soundboard


----------



## mhendo (Sep 12, 2015)

editor said:


> Looks like Jony Ive is as big a twat as Jobs.
> 
> Apple's Jony Ive gets his panties in a bunch over a puppet soundboard


To be fair, there's no evidence in that story that Ive even knew anything about this.

Big companies like Apple have teams of lawyers looking out for this sort of shit all the time. I'd be willing to bet that they sent out the legal notice without even discussing it with Ive.

I think Hoy and Fuchs should have told Apple to take a hike. It seems pretty clear that their puppet soundboard would, in the US at least, be considered a transformative use and probably also satire or parody, thus protecting it from an intellectual property lawsuit.

Of course, in IP law, often the most important thing is not whether or not the merits of the case are on your side, but whether you have deep enough pockets to cope with the trial. You can have all the fair use arguments in the world at your disposal, but it's still going to cost you a five- or even six-figure sum to fight the case, and when your opponent has a market capitalization of about 600 billion dollars, that's not exactly a fight you want to have.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2015)

mhendo said:


> To be fair, there's no evidence in that story that Ive even knew anything about this.
> 
> Big companies like Apple have teams of lawyers looking out for this sort of shit all the time. I'd be willing to bet that they sent out the legal notice without even discussing it with Ive.
> 
> ...


I have some first hand experience in coming into dispute with major league US lawyers over a parody piece, in my case Microsoft. 

Not Barney the overstuffed glove puppet purple dinosaur. No sir.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Yup, cheap set top boxes may be an important part of the gaming market with everything streamed. We need far better fast broadband provision outside big cities for that to happen though.



Indeed although given how much better broadband is today compared to half a decade ago suggests that in five years time the infrastructure will be there.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 13, 2015)

editor said:


> I have some first hand experience in coming into dispute with major league US lawyers over a parody piece, in my case Microsoft.
> 
> Not Barney the overstuffed glove puppet purple dinosaur. No sir.


What's Barney got to do with Microsoft? That article doesn't mention them, just Barney's owners the Lyons  Group.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2015)

I finally got round to sticking my debit card onto Apple pay and used it in a 24hour convenience store at Waterloo,piece of piss certainly easier than getting card out and putting pin in.
Thoroughly Modern Millie me.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2015)

peterkro said:


> I finally got round to sticking my debit card onto Apple pay and used it in a 24hour convenience store at Waterloo,piece of piss certainly easier than getting card out and putting pin in.


You didn't already have a contactless card?


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> What's Barney got to do with Microsoft? That article doesn't mention them, just Barney's owners the Lyons  Group.


The Barney 'interactive toy' was a Microsoft product.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2015)

editor said:


> You didn't already have a contactless card?


No I don't. I've got a basic bank account with Nationwide (due to a long fight with the banks they redlined me in the eighties).It's easy and will make my life better.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 14, 2015)

editor said:


> The Barney 'interactive toy' was a Microsoft product.


Yes it was, but you said it was Microsoft lawyers who were after you.
Maybe they were upset by the competition in the punching stakes from your competing interactive flash game and asked Barney's owners to pursue you on their behalf....


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> Yes it was, but you said it was Microsoft lawyers who were after you.
> Maybe they were upset by the competition in the punching stakes from your competing interactive flash game and asked Barney's owners to pursue you on their behalf....


There was something from Microsoft in the original letters I got - I think they may have sent me the original cease and desist stuff before the other lot steamed in.

(Bit of background here)


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2015)

The World Finally Admits Microsoft Surface Is the Shit


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2015)

peterkro said:


> I finally got round to sticking my debit card onto Apple pay and used it in a 24hour convenience store at Waterloo,piece of piss certainly easier than getting card out and putting pin in.
> Thoroughly Modern Millie me.



Yep I've been using it a fair bit, incredibly fast. Much faster than pulling out my card and certainly faster than tapping in a pin.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 16, 2015)

Just started downloading iOS9 for my iPad. Minutes later remembered I need the iPad for work tomorrow. 

Let's hope it a) works and b) doesn't break any of the apps I need


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

Left it going overnight, all seems to have worked. Nothing seems to have changed much tbh, as it's an older iPad4 so none of the multitasking stuff works. There's the new Siri bits but I've never once used Siri and can't see that changing anytime soon


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

Oooooh, folders now show 4 icons wide instead of 3. Now that's genuine innovation right there


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2015)

I didn't know iOS 9 was out yet


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

Seems to be, just put it on my phone as well.

So finally I will have no fucking ads on webpages on my mobile devices as well as my laptop. About time...


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Seems to be, just put it on my phone as well.
> 
> Sonfinally I will have no fucking ads on webpages on my mobile devices as well as my laptop. About time...


(((independent bloggers)))


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

editor said:


> (((independent bloggers)))


Tough, I'm afraid. I _loathe_ adverts, in any part of life.

Want me to pay for something? Ask. I'm happy to pay for things I have an interest in or use for. Don't shove bollocks at me for something I have no interest in and will never click on out of principle anyway.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

The new system font is odd. It's almost identical yet different enough to make things look weird for a bit, if that makes any sense


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2015)

finally got round to sticking an SSD in my 4 year old MBP… Blimey its quick now


----------



## Crispy (Sep 17, 2015)

http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/20/9002721/the-mobile-web-sucks

This article takes 30 seconds to load and is 9MB

Here's why: The Verge's web sucks

This is why content blockers exist


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

Crispy said:


> The mobile web sucks
> 
> This article takes 30 seconds to load and is 9MB
> 
> ...


Except most small websites with adverts are nowhere near that heavy. Many just contain Google's Adsense content, which provides really valuable income to support small sites and are very light to download. Obviously you can block whatever you like, but you may well be hurting the independent sites you love. In fact, you may well be killing some off for good....


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Tough, I'm afraid. I _loathe_ adverts, in any part of life.
> 
> Want me to pay for something? Ask. I'm happy to pay for things I have an interest in or use for. Don't shove bollocks at me for something I have no interest in and will never click on out of principle anyway.


I hate adverts too. Loathe the fuckers, in fact, but they are a part of everyday life. 

But there is a knock on effect when you deprive some small sites of what is often their sole income. I hope none of the sites you enjoy disappear as a result.


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2015)

i've just been looking at the blogs i follow, not one of the small independent ones i care about have any advertising on them, all the others have massive intrusive ads that i'm very happy to block.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

editor said:


> I hate adverts too. Loathe the fuckers, in fact, but they are a part of everyday life.
> 
> But there is a knock on effect when you deprive some small sites of what is often their sole income. I hope none of the sites you enjoy disappear as a result.


We shall see. All I know right now is that pages are loading far quicker and aren't covered in crap.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

pesh said:


> i've just been looking at the blogs i follow, not one of the small independent ones i care about have any advertising on them, all the others have massive intrusive ads that i'm very happy to block.


That's fair enough. but an awful lot of small blogs and independent sites do rely on non-massive adverts to survive. 

Why Ad Blocking is devastating to the sites you love


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

Apple doing their Apple thing by launching their first app on Android - and it tells users how to switch to iOS. Kick back ensues; 







Reviewers hilariously destroy Apple's 'Move to iOS' app


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

Now here's a very good piece on the The Verge about Apple's real motivation here and it's as ugly as fuck:


> And with iOS 9 and content blockers, what you're seeing is Apple's attempt to fully drive the knife into Google's revenue platform. iOS 9 includes a refined search that auto-suggests content and that can search inside apps, pulling content away from Google and users away from the web, it allows users to block ads, and it offers publishers salvation in the form of Apple News, inside of which Apple will happily display (unblockable!) ads, and even sell them on publishers' behalf for just a 30 percent cut.
> 
> Oh, and if you're not happy with Apple News, you can always turn to Facebook's Instant Articles, which will also track the shit out of you and serve unblockable ads inside of the Facebook app, but from Apple's perspective it's a win as long as the money's not going to Google.





> But taking money and attention away from the web means that the pace of web innovation will slow to a crawl. Innovation tends to follow the money, after all! And asking most small- to medium-sized sites to weather that change without dramatic consequences is utterly foolish. Just look at the number of small sites that have shut down this year: _GigaOm_. _The Dissolve_.
> 
> Casey Johnston wrote a great piece for _The Awl_ about ad blockers, in which The Awl's publisher noted that "seventy-five to eighty-five percent" of the site's ads could be blocked.
> 
> ...



http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/17/9...gle-vs-facebook-and-the-slow-death-of-the-web


And that John Gruber smug fanboy apologist really is a fucking cunt.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> We shall see. All I know right now is that pages are loading far quicker and aren't covered in crap.


This article seems pertinent:


> The central philosophical dispute over ad-blocking goes something like this: Publishers have no right to force readers to be exposed to certain kinds of ads or allow numerous third parties to collect their information without a prior agreement; readers have no right to read or view content that they don’t pay for in one form or another, be it with money or data. What is not in dispute is that if ad-blocking becomes ubiquitous (and there’s nearly every reason to think that it will be!) it will be devastating for publications who derive much or all of their revenue from advertising—which comprises most of the professional publications on the internet. When Murphy first posted about “an hour with Safari Content Blocker in iOS 9,” he asked, rhetorically, “Do I care more about my privacy, time, device battery life & data usage or do I care more about the content creators of sites I visit to be able to monetise effectively and ultimately keep creating content? Tough question. At the moment, I don’t know.”



Welcome to the Block Party


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

editor said:


> Now here's a very good piece on the The Verge about Apple's real motivation here and it's as ugly as fuck:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Large company in competition with another company does things to try and gain advantage over company" shock!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

> The coming reckoning for publishers is not “because of Apple”. It’s because of the choices the publishers themselves made, years ago, to allow themselves to become dependent on user-hostile ad networks that slow down the web, waste precious device battery life, and invade our privacy. Apple has simply enabled us, the users who are fed up with this crap, to do something about it. If aggressive content blocking were enabled out of the box, by default, I could see saying the result is “because of Apple”. But it’s not. What’s about to happen is thus because of _us_, the users.


Seems about right to me.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Seems about right to me.


Yeah! Let's get rid of the adverts because I know from now on you'll be _only too willing_ to pay for all the content you enjoy reading on the web because - like musicians - you understand that it's only fair and right that they somehow get paid for their hard work, eh?!

Oh, wait.... No, you're right. Fuck 'em. Gruber says so.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

editor said:


> Yeah! Let's get rid of the adverts because I know from now on you'll be _only too willing_ to pay for all the content you enjoy reading on the web because - like musicians - you understand that it's only fair and right that they somehow get paid for their hard work, eh?!
> 
> Oh, wait.... No, you're right. Fuck 'em. Gruber says so.


Why don't you have ads on this site?


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Why don't you have ads on this site?


Because I am EXTREMELY lucky enough to have started this forum early enough to have attracted enough of a community that is prepared to pay, and all of the people running it are prepared to do it for no financial return at all. That is exceedingly rare.

But the amount currently coming in only just covers the costs and if enough people suddenly decided to stop paying, advertising could end up as the only way to keep it going. And if those ads were blocked, the site would fold because I sure as hell aren't paying for it out of my own pocket*.

But urban75 is a very different model to the vast majority of websites. Many small independent sites are absolutely reliant on advertising as it is the only practical means for them to cover their costs and - if they're lucky - pay themselves something for their hard work. Take away that and they're fucked. 

*this is all hypothetical


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2015)

Then if a site I use a) is good enough and b) has them in a non intrusive way I'll add them to be whitelist. Problem solved.

The way you're jumping on this simply because it's Apple doing it is bonkers.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Then if a site I use a) is good enough and b) has them in a non intrusive way I'll add them to be whitelist. Problem solved.
> 
> The way you're jumping on this simply because it's Apple doing it is bonkers.


Of course! It's nothing to do with them being the biggest and most powerful tech company on the planet then, or the articles I've linked to that highlight the real damage that ad blockers can do to small websites.

And as for you bothering to constantly update your whitelist on a per site basis as you browse. Sure you will.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 17, 2015)

Advertising on websites has no effect on me, I just tune it out.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Advertising on websites has no effect on me, I just tune it out.


The huge video things that block the entire content can get the fuck off, but I don't even notice stuff like a few adverts along one side or a banner ad.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

Adverts wind me up but until the last year or so it was only video/audio adverts that really pissed me off. However the rise of those terrible link-bait sites with ridiculous images to try and draw your attention has pushed me over the edge on this one. I've never used an ad blocker before but perhaps I will start now.

However I need to learn more before commenting on what Apple have done.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

editor said:


> It's nothing to do with them being the biggest and most powerful tech company on the planet then



I don't know as they are the most powerful. I tend to think of companies that collect and use data on a huge scale, run search engines etc as being more powerful - e.g. Google.


----------



## xenon (Sep 17, 2015)

Where are the adbloccker controls?


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

elbows said:


> I don't know as they are the most powerful. I tend to think of companies that collect and use data on a huge scale, run search engines etc as being more powerful - e.g. Google.


I'd say that they are. 


> *Apple*, the largest public company in the world with a market cap of $741.8bn and the world's most valuable brand, ranks just 11th on Forbes' Global 2000. The iPhone maker, which posted revenues of $199bn and profits of $44.5bn, has assets worth $261.9bn.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

Still a narrow definition of power. If I wanted the most power possible, I'd want to control the likes of the most popular search engine and the most popular social networks, not the most popular luxury hardware brand.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

xenon said:


> Where are the adbloccker controls?



Not tried myself yet but it sounds like you need to get a 3rd party app to take advantage of the feature:

A Day After iOS 9’s Launch, Ad Blockers Top The App Store



> And while somewhat of a geekier feature to implement – users have to download apps then head into iOS’ “Settings” to enable their blocker of choice – it seems that new iOS 9 users are thrilled to have access to this added functionality. Only a day after the release of the updated software, ad blockers are topping the charts in the App Store.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

Also keep in mind its not just about the display of adverts, but all the tracking bullshit.

I quite like the stance taken by one of the new iOS ad-blocking app authors:



> As I wrote in The ethics of modern web ad-blocking, web advertising and behavioral tracking are out of control. They’re unacceptably creepy, bloated, annoying, and insecure, and they’re getting worse at an alarming pace.
> 
> Ad and tracker abuse is much worse on mobile: ads are much larger and harder to dismiss, trackers are harder to detect, their JavaScript slows down page-loads and burns battery power, and their bloat wastes tons of cellular data. And ads are increasingly used as vectors for malware, exploits, and fraud.



Introducing Peace, my privacy-focused iOS 9 ad blocker – Marco.org

Granted there is a potential contradiction in his stance:



> Publishers won’t solve this problem: they cannot consistently enforce standards of decency and security on the ad networks that they embed in their sites.





> If publishers want to offer free content funded by advertising, the burden is on _them_ to choose ad content and methods that their readers will tolerate and respond to.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

elbows said:


> Also keep in mind its not just about the display of adverts, but all the tracking bullshit.


Except facebook will continue to do all those things on your Apple device.

Here's another take on it:



> Well that’s quite a coincidence. The very same day Apple turned its News app into a mandatory blob on your home screen, it also rolled out ad blocking capabilities in iOS 9.
> 
> The day after iOS 9’s release, over ten percent of iOS users have already downloaded iOS 9,according to Paddle Analytics. That means thousands of people have discovered that they can’t get rid of the News app on their home screen. Meanwhile, those same people are probably rejoicing that Apple will finally allow ad blocking. Already, many ad blockers are vying to become the app of choice for the iOS set. So what’s the connection between these two seemingly unrelated iOS 9 shifts?...
> Why Apple Decided to Block Ads on the Same Day It Started Pushing a News App





> Basically, we’ve returned to the social Darwinist argument again. It’s on the publishers to adapt to the new model or die. The problem is that it’s not that simple. Because companies like Apple aren’t just pushing publishers to get new kinds of ads — they are actively trying to supplant the place of those publishers with alternative news platforms. Like, well, Apple’s News app.
> 
> Casey Johnston argues exactly this over on The Awl. Ad blocking, she writes, is a harbinger of the platform age, where small publishers are eaten by companies like Google or Facebook:
> 
> ...


And the punch line:



> When you consider Johnston’s comments here, it becomes obvious why Apple would make its News app mandatory on the same day it’s blocking ads for the first time ever in iOS. It’s destroying media revenue models on two fronts: with ad blocking for the web, and an app for your phone.
> 
> This isn’t about protecting consumers. It’s about Apple getting into the business of serving you news, in an app where you’ll never be able to block ads or sponsored content or “native advertising” or whatever you want to call the same old game of making you want to buy expensive shit you don’t need. When all the small news sites go out of business because they can’t “adapt” to ad blocking, Apple’s News app is there for you. Oh and also? There’s a whole new market for apps like Peace and Blockr and all the others that will soon be stuffing the App Store.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

elbows said:


> Still a narrow definition of power. If I wanted the most power possible, I'd want to control the likes of the most popular search engine and the most popular social networks, not the most popular luxury hardware brand.


Money is power. And Apple have more of that than anyone else.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

Information is power, and google have more of it (and the ability to analyse it) than anyone else.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Tough, I'm afraid. I _loathe_ adverts, in any part of life.
> 
> Want me to pay for something? Ask. I'm happy to pay for things I have an interest in or use for. Don't shove bollocks at me for something I have no interest in and will never click on out of principle anyway.



Yeah couldn't careless about the tiny amount of independent bloggers that no one really reads...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2015)

Updated my 6+ and iPad Air 2. So far I can't really tell much of a difference. There's one or two very minor things here and there but nothing eye catching or really 'wow that's useful'. Doesn't 'feel' any faster/ stable/ etc...tried that screen split thing and it felt a bit gimmicky nothing I can see I'll be using regularly.


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## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah couldn't careless about the tiny amount of independent bloggers that no one really reads...



Prick.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

Besides, if nobody reads them then their ad revenue is insignificant and so they aren't the sort of entities editor is on about in the first place.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2015)

elbows said:


> Prick.



You clearly are an idiot if you think the minuscule amount of traffic they get will generate any real income. If people produce content of value people will pay for it, if you're a small blogger and expecting an income your delusional.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2015)

It's a meaningless debate, the numbers of people using apps to get their content compared to mobile web is staggering. All Apple have done is steer into this and make their browser a nicer experience for the shrinking market that use it.

Adblock is a godsend for user experience.


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## elbows (Sep 17, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You clearly are an idiot if you think the minuscule amount of traffic they get will generate any real income. If people produce content of value people will pay for it, if you're a small blogger and expecting an income your delusional.



It's not my fault that you are so narrow-minded you've chosen to restrict the point to the very smallest of the small. 

Your point about people paying for content is not backed up by the story of the web overall so far. Or the story of how google built a huge ad empire.


----------



## Zabo (Sep 18, 2015)

I've noticed the little dial that appears when you adjust the volume has disappeared on ios9. Also the side wipe app on the mini is a bit of a joke. I wonder when if they will ever get rid of that silly mechanical home button?

Apropos the ad-blocker debate. I would like to see an ethical ad blocker so you could stuff sites like the Guardian especially when they have their bottom banner which says: "We notice you've got an ad-blocker switched on. Perhaps you'd like to support the Guardian another way?"

Actually no. I think with all your anti-Corbyn and anti working people articles of late you are a bunch of cunts.

Then there's the Indy. You are reading it at 2:00 in the morning and catching you unaware a booming voice implores you to buy the latest soap. Embedded video ads are a bad idea. I don't mind static adverts because they are not intrusive.

My ethical solution is to use two browsers. Safari for blocked pages and Opera for non blocked pages.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2015)

This situation has echoes of the 'why should I pay for music when I can download it for free' argument. In both cases, the people creating the content are the ones getting financially stuffed while people get to enjoy their work for free, and it hurts the small and independent - and often the best - concerns the most.


----------



## xenon (Sep 18, 2015)

It's still odd that some micro payment system hasn't taken off yet. Top up an account with credit, then enter a PIN and pay a few pence or what ever when you see the logo on a site and want to read the full article.

Big splashy ads seriously fuck me off, they make Voiceover stop at times. Mind you, I use the Reader function that a lot of news sites have now. Strips out everything but the article itself. This works well if you can get to them with out the other crap in the way.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2015)

xenon said:


> It's still odd that some micro payment system hasn't taken off yet. Top up an account with credit, then enter a PIN and pay a few pence or what ever when you see the logo on a site and want to read the full article.


Because it's been proved time and time again that most people don't want to pay to read web content.


xenon said:


> Big splashy ads seriously fuck me off, they make Voiceover stop at times. Mind you, I use the Reader function that a lot of news sites have now. Strips out everything but the article itself. This works well if you can get to them with out the other crap in the way.


I've got no problem with autoplaying video ads that cover most of your screen being banished forever. They can fuck right off.


----------



## elbows (Sep 18, 2015)

editor said:


> This situation has echoes of the 'why should I pay for music when I can download it for free' argument. In both cases, the people creating the content are the ones getting financially stuffed while people get to enjoy their work for free, and it hurts the small and independent - and often the best - concerns the most.



Downloading music without paying is mostly about saving money, and very early on (before the music industry accepted the idea of online music distribution at all) about convenience.

This advertising issue is more complicated. Some sites are at fault for plastering too many adverts on their site. Others are ignorant about serious issues regarding tracking of users. I've now installed Ghostery and am having 'fun' seeing how many trackers and wasteful javascript processes are being run on sites.

Behavioural tracking can fuck off, and content creators who don't care about this get what they deserve.


----------



## elbows (Sep 18, 2015)

I see the BBC has an article about whether ad-blockers will mean the end of the free content internet.

Its not a brilliant piece but it does touch briefly on some interesting issues. I'm only going to quote a couple of things of particular interest to me.

Does ad blocking herald the end of the free internet? - BBC News



> "Consumers should have a choice over what kinds of ads they want to see, how fast they want them to load, and how much personal information they are happy to share," he says.





> "A new model is to put users of the internet in control of their own data. Let them decide who they trade it with and for what reward," says StJohn Deakins, chief executive of CitizenMe, a group helping consumers take control of their own data and monetise it.


----------



## Zabo (Sep 19, 2015)

I see the Peace creator has pulled his ad-blocker. I wonder if he was leaned on? I do love conspiracy theories.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...er-marco-arment-says-success-doesnt-feel-good


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2015)

Zabo said:


> I see the Peace creator has pulled his ad-blocker. I wonder if he was leaned on? I do love conspiracy theories.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...er-marco-arment-says-success-doesnt-feel-good


I think it's just "divvy liberal".

The whole "small creators" argument is dead. Small sites cannot possibly make even maintenance costs from ads. That ship sailed years ago. Small creators take commissions, use Patreon, have their work feed in to their "personal brand" (barf) or whatever. Even large, popular, well-trafficked sites have to be laser focussed on content and incorporate increasingly huge numbers of obnoxious ads to make money from advertising nowadays (I work on some). Ad payments have been tanking for a while, and it isn't ad blockers that are doing it—people just don't pay for impressions nowadays. The emperor's clothes have been increasingly less visible for a while. (It'll happen on social soon too.)

The fact that you can put ads into apps even if the browser blocks them is just another migration, like modal JS popups took over from new-window popups. That won't pay either. The industry is incredibly unwilling to actually confront this issue.


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2015)

What an idiot. He spent all that time constructing an argument as to why ad-blockers were justified, and made a big deal about how up-to-date he was going to keep it. Why you would spend any time writing the app in the first place if you had lingering doubts about morality issues is beyond me.

I highly doubt anyone gave him a new point to consider, beyond not being able to handle the heat.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 19, 2015)

So, iOS9 on an iPhone 5s.

Hmmmm. Can't quite put my finger on it but it's just not quite right. All the smoothness and instant response has slightly dulled. It's not stuttering or going slow as such, but there's something making it feel slightly less slick and polished than it was before.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2015)

The app switcher is irritating. The old one was way better.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2015)

About the whole "paying for content" issue. Ads aren't paying for content. You've not been in that situation for a very long time. We don't have ads so that you can have content, we have content so that you can have ads. The entire purpose of an ad-driven website is to serve ads; oh initially ads might have supported content, but now, no. There are massive content farms producing easily-linkable "viral" content specifically for the purpose of ads, very specifically targetting what is popular on FB or whatever the best distribution medium is. The whole thing is a running joke.

So when the ads don't work—and they don't, and it's not ad blockers, and it's mostly imaginary that they ever really did, hence why the payments are tanking and advertisers are getting more desperate—who cares? They never supported anything useful. They _actively acted against_ anything useful. Better for everyone apart from those who have made a business out of it, and tbh fuck them.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 19, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The app switcher is irritating. The old one was way better.


Yep.


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> About the whole "paying for content" issue. Ads aren't paying for content. You've not been in that situation for a very long time. We don't have ads so that you can have content, we have content so that you can have ads. The entire purpose of an ad-driven website is to serve ads; oh initially ads might have supported content, but now, no. There are massive content farms producing easily-linkable "viral" content specifically for the purpose of ads, very specifically targetting what is popular on FB or whatever the best distribution medium is. The whole thing is a running joke.
> 
> So when the ads don't work—and they don't, and it's not ad blockers, and it's mostly imaginary that they ever really did, hence why the payments are tanking and advertisers are getting more desperate—who cares? They never supported anything useful. They _actively acted against_ anything useful. Better for everyone apart from those who have made a business out of it, and tbh fuck them.



I totally buy into what you are saying but I think you are over-egging it just a little. Quite how little I cannot say, since I don't have the data and my personal experience is relatively limited. But for example, just because a very large percentage of online ad revenue etc may be driven by the bullshit you are describing there, doesn't mean I should exclude the possibility that some people somewhere are making useful amounts of money in exchange for meaningful content. This doesn't really negate your point though, and I know there are very real reasons why we don't hear optimistic bullshit about 'the long tail' and haven't done for years now. Almost any direction we might look in, from ad supported games to youtubers, the useful money only comes if you can get a rather huge quantity of regular eyeballs. I like the Patreon idea and monetising a small, loyal following, but I don't know how well its going.

Certainly I was one of those people who laughed when the likes of Facebook and Google talked shit about how much money they were going to make from mobile ads, given factors such as the more intrusive feeling we experience when adverts appear on mobile devices, especially when screen real estate is limited and apps are so popular.

I look forward to it going shit for Facebook, especially as the ads that appear on my feed feel more numerous and annoying these days. But I wouldn't like to predict how long we'll be waiting for the bubble to burst - its been a silly bubble since at least the time when the phrase 'web 2.0' was coined and that must be over 10 years ago now. Hard to tell how long the bullshit can be propped up since the entire global system seems to be equally bubble-based and phoney confidence sure can last a long time.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 21, 2015)

Used apple pay for the first time yesterday....... 'citin


----------



## Crispy (Sep 21, 2015)

Popping the Publishing Bubble - Stratechery by Ben Thompson

tl;dr - advertisers and publishers interests no longer align. publishers are fucked. buzzfeed is the future.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Popping the Publishing Bubble - Stratechery by Ben Thompson
> 
> tl;dr - advertisers and publishers interests no longer align. publishers are fucked. buzzfeed is the future.


So attention grabbing clickbait fluff is the future? God help us all.

(*goes off to rewrite next Buzz headline: "Lambeth unveils new plans: YOU WANT BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE")


----------



## teqniq (Sep 21, 2015)

Apple removes malicious programs after first major attack on app store


----------



## sim667 (Sep 21, 2015)

teqniq said:


> Apple removes malicious programs after first major attack on app store





> Apple declined to say how many apps it had uncovered, and did not provide a list of affected apps or details about how many users had downloaded them.



Pricks


----------



## teqniq (Sep 21, 2015)

Yes, I thought that somewhat idiotic.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Pricks


Classic Apple. Fuck the users: it's all about their precious image.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 21, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, iOS9 on an iPhone 5s.
> 
> Hmmmm. Can't quite put my finger on it but it's just not quite right. All the smoothness and instant response has slightly dulled. It's not stuttering or going slow as such, but there's something making it feel slightly less slick and polished than it was before.


A slight update to this.

iOS 9 on both a 5s and an iPad 4 is a crappy, slow, buggy mess


----------



## sim667 (Sep 24, 2015)

> WeChat
> 
> DiDi Taxi
> 
> ...



They've announced the top 25 affected apps..


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 7, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A slight update to this.
> 
> iOS 9 on both a 5s and an iPad 4 is a crappy, slow, buggy mess


Has this got any better?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 7, 2015)

5t3IIa said:


> Has this got any better?


No idea on the phone as I upgraded to a 6s. As for the iPad - the 9.0.2 update seems to have helped a lot. Less buggy in feel but It's definitely not as nippy as it used to be.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 7, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No idea on the phone as I upgraded to a 6s. As for the iPad - the 9.0.2 update seems to have helped a lot. Less buggy in feel but It's definitely not as nippy as it used to be.



Thanks! I waited until 9.0.2 for 5s so I guess I'll just go ahead before all my apps start winking-out  Cheers


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 7, 2015)

9.0.2 is great on my iPhone 5. Battery life seems better than iOS 8.


----------



## MarkyMarrk (Oct 13, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> 9.0.2 is great on my iPhone 5. Battery life seems better than iOS 8.


Much better.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 15, 2015)

Pangu jailbreak for iOS 9 (windows only mac in a couple of weeks) out now.Rumour has it that Apple has closed the exploit in iOS9.1beta so that's why they've released it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2015)

After a few weeks with ios9 I can't say I've noticed much change, it *feels* a bit snappier but the stand out feature is actually quite subtle: the back to previous app button.

Absolutely love it, very useful!


----------



## Winot (Oct 15, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> After a few weeks with ios9 I can't say I've noticed much change, it *feels* a bit snappier but the stand out feature is actually quite subtle: the back to previous app button.
> 
> Absolutely love it, very useful!



 The downside is that I keep pressing it accidentally when I am trying to scroll to the top of a webpage in Safari. 

 The other thing I would like to see them introduce is a scroll down the feature for Safari for forums and the like.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 16, 2015)

Ah I can see that haven't had that issue my self tho.


----------



## moon (Oct 20, 2015)

Adobe premier seems to have stopped encoding ...sigh.
So I may need to try Final Cut Pro X but it will require an upgrade to El Capitan.
...	   I hope it works..


----------



## sim667 (Oct 20, 2015)

moon said:


> Adobe premier seems to have stopped encoding ...sigh.
> So I may need to try Final Cut Pro X but it will require an upgrade to El Capitan.
> ...	   I hope it works..


What do you need encoding? i.e. from what format to what format?

There were some major problems with Final Cut Pro X...... But I'm a bit of an encoding master


----------



## moon (Oct 20, 2015)

It is a basic edit with some sped up footage, animated stills and titles encoding down to 720p, it worked ok yesterday now premiere crashes.
What are the problems with El Capitan and Final Cut Pro x...
I've reinstalled premiere from the creative cloud and restarted the render
I have a headache... Lol


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 22, 2015)

Facebook app keeps crashing on iOS9 on a 5s. Usually when I'm reading an article in facbook browser. It just randomly quits the app.

Anyone else getting this?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2015)

Yup they just issued an update.


----------



## xenon (Oct 22, 2015)

Ios 9.0.2, bit sketchy re typing in safari. AKA randomly dont work. Maybe justs effects voiceover usage. Will report to apple when can be arsed.


----------



## Winot (Nov 1, 2015)

I've upgraded to El Capitan on my iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011) and am having problems - it keeps freezing and the screen is showing a flickering 'clock wheel'.  Not the coloured pinwheel but the white on grey clock face.  One of the problems is I don't know what it's called so it's hard to search for a solution.

I tried resetting the PRAM, fixing permissions etc. but that didn't help.  I reinstalled the OS and it seemed OK for a day but the problem is back.

Any ideas?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 3, 2015)

Winot said:


> I've upgraded to El Capitan on my iMac (27-inch, Mid 2011) and am having problems - it keeps freezing and the screen is showing a flickering 'clock wheel'.  Not the coloured pinwheel but the white on grey clock face.  One of the problems is I don't know what it's called so it's hard to search for a solution.
> 
> I tried resetting the PRAM, fixing permissions etc. but that didn't help.  I reinstalled the OS and it seemed OK for a day but the problem is back.
> 
> Any ideas?



Suggestions that this may be caused by a mail bug, if you use mail?

El Capitan running slowly? | Apple Support Communities


----------



## Winot (Nov 3, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Suggestions that this may be caused by a mail bug, if you use mail?
> 
> El Capitan running slowly? | Apple Support Communities



Yeah I do. 

Anyway, I rolled back to Yosemite and will try installing El Capitan on a partition and doing a clean install to see if that works.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 5, 2015)

moon said:


> It is a basic edit with some sped up footage, animated stills and titles encoding down to 720p, it worked ok yesterday now premiere crashes.
> What are the problems with El Capitan and Final Cut Pro x...
> I've reinstalled premiere from the creative cloud and restarted the render
> I have a headache... Lol



There wasn't problems as such with el capitan and final cut pro x...... it was more a lot of functionality that was stripped out of final cut pro x.

Apple totally fucked it up


----------



## moon (Nov 5, 2015)

sim667 said:


> There wasn't problems as such with el capitan and final cut pro x...... it was more a lot of functionality that was stripped out of final cut pro x.
> 
> Apple totally fucked it up



My premiere export seems to be working again now.. hopefully it was a temporary glitch.

I cant believe they stripped functionality from FCP X, wasn't it already a stripped down version on FCP 7??
I guess soon it will be no different from iMovie....


----------



## sim667 (Nov 5, 2015)

moon said:


> My premiere export seems to be working again now.. hopefully it was a temporary glitch.
> 
> I cant believe they stripped functionality from FCP X, wasn't it already a stripped down version on FCP 7??
> I guess soon it will be no different from iMovie....



They basically brought it into line with imove, but made it look like a pro version

They did the same with their photography software, got rid of iPhoto for home users, and aperture for pro, and then brought in photos, which is ok for home use, but a bit poor for pro.

Im still clinging onto aperture, its a cracking bit of software


----------



## moon (Nov 5, 2015)

I'm pleased I didn't get it..
In terms of photography the online services such as pixlr and picmonkey are ok for basic stuff but when I need to change things like colour channels etc I'm using Affinity.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 5, 2015)

moon said:


> I'm pleased I didn't get it..
> In terms of photography the online services such as pixlr and picmonkey are ok for basic stuff but when I need to change things like colour channels etc I'm using Affinity.



I had a cracked version of aperture 2..... and weirdly when aperture 3 came up it let me upgrade it legitimately via the app store...... I've been tempted to move to lightroom, but I just can't be bothered.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2015)

Not had any trouble with Aperture so far on El Capitan. A year or two down the line, though, who can say?

I've been looking at available plugins for the new Photos every now and then but they still seem like novelty stuff. I very much doubt we'll see anything decent; plugin writers will assume that anyone serious uses Lightroom, which I can't stand.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 13, 2015)

Apple to shut down Beats Music on Nov. 30

Beats music is getting the chop. I guess because its shit.


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 13, 2015)

My 'z' key is broken.  

The apple store just quoted me £340 to fix it.  This is because they have to rip out the whole innards and replace everything else, including the battery, but excluding the motherboard.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 13, 2015)

fractionMan said:


> My 'z' key is broken.
> 
> The apple store just quoted me £340 to fix it.  This is because they have to rip out the whole innards and replace everything else, including the battery, but excluding the motherboard.


What sort of machine and how broken is the key?


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 24, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> What sort of machine and how broken is the key?



Macbook pro mid 2015.  It's unbroken itself now


----------



## fractionMan (Nov 24, 2015)

However, I'm not contemplating an El Capitano upgrade on my old mac so that I can transfer via time machine to the new mac.  Seems like a horrible 'upgrade'.  

I'm going to try the time machine transfer without upgrading my old mac and see how it goes.


----------



## Fez909 (Nov 29, 2015)

No more audio jack on iPhones?

Apple rumored to ditch headphone jack on 'iPhone 7' for Lightning connector audio


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Nov 29, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not had any trouble with Aperture so far on El Capitan. A year or two down the line, though, who can say?
> 
> I've been looking at available plugins for the new Photos every now and then but they still seem like novelty stuff. I very much doubt we'll see anything decent; plugin writers will assume that anyone serious uses Lightroom, which I can't stand.



I'm buggered if I'm going to pay Adobe a subscription and Lightroom 4 is obsolete for me now, since it doesn't support my most used camera.

I'm on a 30 day trial of Capture One and it's quite good. Rather like what I remember Aperture as being. Much more integrated and intuitive UI compared to Lightroom.

Pricey though, if you don't do that sort of thing for a living, which I don't.

Also been trying out various kinds of Linux / Open Source stuff in a VM. I suspect that's probably where I'll end up going.


----------



## moon (Nov 29, 2015)

Fez909 said:


> No more audio jack on iPhones?
> 
> Apple rumored to ditch headphone jack on 'iPhone 7' for Lightning connector audio


Tut tut Apple.. Surely you make enough money already from adapters and cables..


----------



## peterkro (Nov 29, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I'm buggered if I'm going to pay Adobe a subscription and Lightroom 4 is obsolete for me now, since it doesn't support my most used camera.
> 
> I'm on a 30 day trial of Capture One and it's quite good. Rather like what I remember Aperture as being. Much more integrated and intuitive UI compared to Lightroom.
> 
> ...


Plenty of downloadable versions of Capture One Pro8 floating about the internet.


----------



## paolo (Nov 29, 2015)

moon said:


> Tut tut Apple.. Surely you make enough money already from adapters and cables..



If they're doing this, I expect the motivation is to make the phone thinner & free up (a little) internal space.

I think I'd rather have the 3.5mm jack myself though.


----------



## moon (Nov 29, 2015)

paolo said:


> If they're doing this, I expect the motivation is to make the phone thinner & free up (a little) internal space.


Possibly, but I know someone who has worked for Apple, he's seen the figures for income generated from sales of adapters.. It is huge..


----------



## paolo (Nov 29, 2015)

moon said:


> Possibly, but I know someone who has worked for Apple, he's seen the figures for income generated from sales of adapters.. It is huge..



The margins will be massive - that's generally true in the industry as far as branded cables and adaptors. HDMI cables are a classic example.

But relative to the profits on the iPhone itself, I expect it's fairly small.

Apple have a history of end-of-lifing things some time before anyone else. Floppy drives, optical drives, Ethernet connectors...

Sometimes they go the opposite direction, to 'simplify'. Personally I really like the (proprietary) mag safe power connectors on their laptops... But they've now, on the new MacBook, switched to a standard USB type C connector. Which will reduce their opportunity to sell proprietary bits.


----------



## eoin_k (Nov 29, 2015)

The margins on peripheral and digital content will be massive.

paolo beat me to it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 29, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I'm buggered if I'm going to pay Adobe a subscription and Lightroom 4 is obsolete for me now, since it doesn't support my most used camera.
> 
> I'm on a 30 day trial of Capture One and it's quite good. Rather like what I remember Aperture as being. Much more integrated and intuitive UI compared to Lightroom.
> 
> ...


I put it on another thread about Aperture, but I'm trying out Photos at the moment—mostly because I wanted to use icloud photo library on holiday, and also I do sometimes take my laptop out when shooting, and it's nice to be able to do some editing before I get home and not have to do it all again. The interface is a lot more tidied up than Aperture's, which let's face it hadn't been updated for years before they said they weren't going to, and is generally quick and nice to use. The editing is fine if you don't do a lot of PP, which I don't.

However there's one huge issue: you can't "edit in external application" any more (you could even do this in iPhoto, let alone Aperture). It seems you actually have to export the original, edit it, and re-import it, losing all your metadata. I don't do this very often but for e.g. lens distortion correction or de-vignetting, there just isn't any other way. There's a "wtf apple" moment right there.


----------



## paolo (Nov 29, 2015)

For the "edits are portable and non destructive", there'd need to be a way of guaranteeing the external app/plug in was available on all devices. Not sure how Apple could enforce that for each user and provide a consistent user experience.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Nov 30, 2015)

So I was vaguely thinking about getting an iPad mini or similar. 

Am I wrong or is usable RAW support missing from iOS, despite the years it's been around? 

You'd think an iPad would be ideal for photography, but as far as I can make out on a brief research trawl, it's practical only for jpgs ... 

Is that right?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 2, 2015)

paolo said:


> For the "edits are portable and non destructive", there'd need to be a way of guaranteeing the external app/plug in was available on all devices. Not sure how Apple could enforce that for each user and provide a consistent user experience.


Even a system which just duplicated the image and automatically opened the new one in an external editor, which is what iPhoto and Aperture did, would be fine. In fact you can do this on iOS Photos, but not OS X.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 2, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> So I was vaguely thinking about getting an iPad mini or similar.
> 
> Am I wrong or is usable RAW support missing from iOS, despite the years it's been around?
> 
> ...


As far as I can tell it accepts RAWs but uses the embedded JPEG on iOS. Using RAW images with iPhoto for iOS - Apple Support Which would be a bit pointless—you might as well just save as JPEG.

I'm not sure how this works with photos which are imported into OS X Photos as RAW, have modifications made (which would affect the converted RAW file) and are then synced and viewed/edited on iOS. You'd then have modifications applied to two different source images, the converted RAW and the embedded JPEG. That doesn't sound proper.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Dec 2, 2015)

Yeah, thats about what I got from looking into it a bit. Not really a compelling story.


----------



## Fez909 (Dec 9, 2015)

moon said:


> Tut tut Apple.. Surely you make enough money already from adapters and cables..


Make enough money already you say?


paolo said:


> If they're doing this, I expect the motivation is to make the phone thinner & free up (a little) internal space.
> 
> I think I'd rather have the 3.5mm jack myself though.


Make the phone thinner you say?

Behold! The £79 case which makes your battery last longer, your phone thicker...and uglier


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2015)

Here's some more genius design from Apple. 






http://gizmodo.com/the-sad-reality-of-the-magic-mouse-2-1746949289


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 9, 2015)

editor said:


> Here's some more genius design from Apple.


Yeah, can't believe they did that. Even though it only needs to be plugged in for a few minutes, it doesn't seem to make much sense, apart from there not being anywhere else they could easily put the port without changing the shape of the mouse.

The port where the lightning connector goes is in exactly the same place as the catch on the original Magic Mouse.
Not that I can see any reason for doing that.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> Yeah, can't believe they did that. Even though it only needs to be plugged in for a few minutes, it doesn't seem to make much sense, apart from there not being anywhere else they could easily put the port without changing the shape of the mouse.
> 
> The port where the lightning connector goes is in exactly the same place as the catch on the original Magic Mouse.
> Not that I can see any reason for doing that.
> View attachment 80622



They should have stuck the port in the end, so you can charge and use at the same time.

Its neater than the gazillion rechargeable batteries I've got at the moment however.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 9, 2015)

sim667 said:


> They should have stuck the port in the end, so you can charge and use at the same time.


That would mean changing the front design significantly as the moving top part only has a couple of mm clearance. They should have tried that though.


sim667 said:


> Its neater than the gazillion rechargeable batteries I've got at the moment however.


You can get a wireless charging pack for the Magic Mouse but it's £35 which will buy a lot of batteries, either rechargeable or not.


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> That would mean changing the front design significantly as the moving top part only has a couple of mm clearance. They should have tried that though.
> 
> You can get a wireless charging pack for the Magic Mouse but it's £35 which will buy a lot of batteries, either rechargeable or not.


£65 for the lowly rated mouse plus £35 for the charger?! Think I'd just get a superior Logitech instead.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2015)

editor said:


> £65 for the lowly rated mouse plus £35 for the charger?! Think I'd just get a superior Logitech instead.



I got mine for 20 off eBay.

I actually quite like it.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 9, 2015)

editor said:


> £65 for the lowly rated mouse plus £35 for the charger?! Think I'd just get a superior Logitech instead.


No, the wireless charger is for the original Magic Mouse, not the Magic Mouse 2.


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> No, the wireless charger is for the original Magic Mouse, not the Magic Mouse 2.


Either way it's silly money for a very average device.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 9, 2015)

£20 off eBay doesn't seem unreasonable.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2015)

I mean they're nice mouses (mice?)....... but definately not £65 worth..... £40, I could understand.

I'm not really au faix with different mice tbh.


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I got mine for 20 off eBay.
> 
> I actually quite like it.


A lot of Apple users don't seem to like it much
Customer Reviews: Magic Mouse 2


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 9, 2015)

My original Magic Mouse has been the best mouse I've ever owned, loads better than the previous Mighty Mouse. Was a birthday present and has been in daily use for years. My only complaint would be that it gets through batteries, which either AA rechargeables or the wireless charging pack would rectify. 
I don't see much point in upgrading to the Magic Mouse 2 at the moment.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2015)

editor said:


> A lot of Apple users don't seem to like it much
> Customer Reviews: Magic Mouse 2



At £65 I probably wouldn't like it.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> My original Magic Mouse has been the best mouse I've ever owned, loads better than the previous Mighty Mouse. Was a birthday present and has been in daily use for years. My only complaint would be that it gets through batteries, which either AA rechargeables or the wireless charging pack would rectify.
> I don't see much point in upgrading to the Magic Mouse 2 at the moment.



I've got a mighty mouse too, i keep it at work as there wasn't a mouse available to use on my laptop.

Its shit


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2015)

We have Magic Mice at work. I like them to use, but they _do_ eat batteries, and the ones we have are getting a bit old so don't always recognise when they have charged batteries, and then the rechargeable batteries we have are getting old too and don't always hold a charge... I just got a USB scrollwheel mouse from IT in the end.


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> We have Magic Mice at work. I like them to use, but they _do_ eat batteries, and the ones we have are getting a bit old so don't always recognise when they have charged batteries, and then the rechargeable batteries we have are getting old too and don't always hold a charge... I just got a USB scrollwheel mouse from IT in the end.


I'm using a Logitech mouse I must have had for 8 years or so and the batteries seem to last forever. It's got plenty of buttons which please me greatly.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2015)

A vast majority of the time I'm on my laptop its in a place thats too inconvenient to use a mouse, or I'm using a terminal window..... so for what I need the 2 2nd hand apple mice I've got are fine


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2015)

Apple insist on using Bluetooth for their wireless keyboards and mice, which is a shame because as we all know, Bluetooth is shit. The logitech radio dongle tech is far better. No drivers, no fuss, endless batery life.


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Dec 9, 2015)

I use my £5 Lidl mouse over my Apple wireless mouse for the simple reason the Apple WM is really, really, shit.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Apple insist on using Bluetooth for their wireless keyboards and mice, which is a shame because as we all know, Bluetooth is shit. The logitech radio dongle tech is far better. No drivers, no fuss, endless batery life.


A Magic Mouse vs a standard wireless mouse is not really like for like. The MM basically has a mini multitouch trackpad on it. That's always going to be a bit more expensive to power. Bluetooth works perfectly well with macs, too.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2015)

Looking good, Apple.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> A Magic Mouse vs a standard wireless mouse is not really like for like. The MM basically has a mini multitouch trackpad on it. That's always going to be a bit more expensive to power. Bluetooth works perfectly well with macs, too.



Yeah that's the thing they're perfect for Macs and not much else. Other nice are perfect for Windows machines...


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Dec 21, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> As far as I can tell it accepts RAWs but uses the embedded JPEG on iOS. Using RAW images with iPhoto for iOS - Apple Support Which would be a bit pointless—you might as well just save as JPEG.
> 
> I'm not sure how this works with photos which are imported into OS X Photos as RAW, have modifications made (which would affect the converted RAW file) and are then synced and viewed/edited on iOS. You'd then have modifications applied to two different source images, the converted RAW and the embedded JPEG. That doesn't sound proper.



I've looked into this a bit more, with a view to using an iPad to review photos on the go when I'm out and about with my Fuji rather than dragging a laptop around with me just so I can look at pictures on a decent sized screen (might as well stick with the Nikon outfit if I want to do that, bring a 3kg tripod along too.)

As far as I can tell this is the situation, although I've only been fiddling with this for a day or so and my previous exposure to iOS has just been using the phones mostly as phones plus a brief play with the wife's iPad, so I might have misunderstood something:

You can import jpg and (recognised) raw types onto an iOS device, for example by using the SD-Lightning adaptor or some sort of wireless connection (which I quickly decided to avoid because Fuji native wireless appears to be a shit implementation). Either way they end up in the opaque Photos database rather than on a file system.

You can look at jpgs or the embedded jpgs in the RAW files on there, and probably fiddle with jpgs using Snapseed or whatever if you're so inclined, but to do anything with raw files on an iOS device you have to use either Adobe products (in which case you're involved with _two_ totalitarian cloud regimes), or obscure third party apps, each of which is a bit flaky in different ways.

You can sync Photos with other Apple devices, e.g. a Mac where proper raw editing tools might exist, via iCloud or iTunes. This seems to work until you actually try to export the files and edit them, in which case issues may arise. I just experimentally went this route with some Fuji .raf files but can only read them in Rawtherapee and Silkypix, Capture One won't have anything to do with them if they've been tampered with by Apple Photos, even if you use the 'Export Unchanged without fucking about with my files in any way, even if you think it's for my own good" option and didn't edit them in any way in Photos.

Or you can try to avoid iCloud/iTunes and use some sort of third-party sync, e.g. via PhotoSync or Shuttersnitch apps and Dropbox or something else, in which case iOS will try to mess you up at every stage and OSX isn't much better. For example, only iCloud seems to be able to do anything in the background on iOS, so anything else you try to use is going to clog your device up for what can easily be hours. Anything involving wireless will also be fucked by the iOS device dropping the connection every few minutes.

It's the latter especially that has me thinking that Apple are perfectly happy to create a wretched user experience for anyone on iOS who isn't willing to pay for iCloud and settle for whatever RAW editing capabilities they may choose to give you in their proprietary software. This is far worse than the minor annoyances of OSX, which can usually be avoided by invoking the perfectly good BSD stuff underneath the pretty GUI when you need to be completely in control of what's happening to your files. 

I can see an "iPad on the go" solution being ok for jpgs (which are so good from the Fuji that actually might be workable most of the time) if you don't mind being locked into iCloud and Photos, but I can't imagine how they're going to sell the new giganto-iPad to photographers who habitually use RAW without sorting this horrible situation out ...


----------



## sim667 (Dec 21, 2015)

There's a couple of ways you can consider - this currently only does thumbnails, but i think it will develop in the future.

Pulse lets you control camera settings from a smartphone

What you're really describing is tethered capture, something thats easily achievable on a laptop, but not something i've seen so much for iOS devices.

However I've just found this, which may be of interest?
Capture Pilot on the App Store


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Dec 21, 2015)

No I understand what tethered capture is. That's not what I'm talking about above.

I'm just talking about importing RAW + JPG files I've already shot on my x100t onto an iOS device to review them on a nice screen, say while sitting in a cafe or something ...

(rather than controlling the camera from that device while shooting, which would be tethered capture)

.... then exporting them to someplace on a real file system on a Mac, so I can edit raw using proper software once I get home.

Should be simple right?

Having said that, while I'm reviewing Capture One, I'm definitely going to try hooking up my Nikon to Capture Pilot. That's potentially really useful for tripod based macro.

It looks like it's an adjunct to Capture One running on a Mac though. You set the Mac up as a server while you're shooting, which also gives people nearby the option of reviewing edits without hovering over your shoulder. Something I'd guess might help pros to avoid smelling too much marketing breath.


----------



## moon (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi, does anyone know how to get an ebook onto an iphone.
I want to put this book The Worshipper of the Image ... : Richard Le Gallienne : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
into kindle or ibooks but when I try to download it from the safari browser on my iphone it isn't allowed..
Is there another way?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 21, 2016)

moon said:


> Hi, does anyone know how to get an ebook onto an iphone.
> I want to put this book The Worshipper of the Image ... : Richard Le Gallienne : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive
> into kindle or ibooks but when I try to download it from the safari browser on my iphone it isn't allowed..
> Is there another way?


Go to the ePub link on that page - https://archive.org/download/worshipperimage01gallgoog/worshipperimage01gallgoog.epub - and you should get an "open in iBooks" option.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 21, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Apple insist on using Bluetooth for their wireless keyboards and mice, which is a shame because as we all know, Bluetooth is shit. The logitech radio dongle tech is far better. No drivers, no fuss, endless batery life.


Except dongles are shit.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 21, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Except dongles are shit.


I said the radio tech is far better because it's purpose made for M&KB. Apple should use it, because bluetooth is shit.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 21, 2016)

Crispy said:


> I said the radio tech is far better because it's purpose made for M&KB. Apple should use it, because bluetooth is shit.


What's wrong with it  

Works perfectly on my MacBook...


----------



## Crispy (Jan 21, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What's wrong with it
> 
> Works perfectly on my MacBook...


Battery life is reduced, software is required at the computer end, pairing time can be long.


----------



## moon (Jan 21, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Go to the ePub link on that page - https://archive.org/download/worshipperimage01gallgoog/worshipperimage01gallgoog.epub - and you should get an "open in iBooks" option.


Yes it worked, thanks so much.


----------



## editor (Mar 21, 2016)

I'm not sure there's ever been a less wow-factor Apple event: Here’s Everything Apple Announced Today


----------



## peterkro (Mar 22, 2016)

Article about how it's possible to jailbreak the newest iPhone (hi Musclenerd) and yet how difficult it is:

Untangling iOS PIN code security - marcan.st


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Mar 22, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm not sure there's ever been a less wow-factor Apple event: Here’s Everything Apple Announced Today


I've been wondering about an iPhone for a few months. Put off by the size of the 6/6S and by the age of the 5S (doesn't seem worth it).  The SE appeals to me.  The rest of it was quite boring, though. 

Good news is I might get to replace my iPad 2 with a now cheaper Air2 from their refurb store.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 22, 2016)

I like the look of the iPhone SE. It's a sensible price too for a product carrying basically the same specs as the 6S.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 22, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I like the look of the iPhone SE. It's a sensible price too for a product carrying basically the same specs as the 6S.


Yes, sensible price. For the first time ever I find myself considering whether my next phone should be an iPhone.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I like the look of the iPhone SE. It's a sensible price too for a product carrying basically the same specs as the 6S.


Sales are down dues to Android's dominance, so they've got to reduce prices.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 22, 2016)

editor said:


> Sales are down dues to Android's dominance, so they've got to reduce prices.


Depends on how you measure "down". 
*Global Apple iPhone sales from 3rd quarter 2007 to 1st quarter 2016 (in million units)*

Never really liked the size of the iPhone 6 or 6s. The SE looks good, though it lacks the 3D touch thing that the 6s has.
It's still more expensive than some of the Android phones coming out of China - the Huawei's, OnePlus's, Xiaomi's etc but people still seem willing to pay a premium for Apple products.

From what I've read, the SE will fit accessories (cases, docks etc) that are designed for the 5/5s, which is a bonus for upgraders.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> Depends on how you measure "down".
> *Global Apple iPhone sales from 3rd quarter 2007 to 1st quarter 2016 (in million units)*
> View attachment 84939
> Never really liked the size of the iPhone 6 or 6s. The SE looks good, though it lacks the 3D touch thing that the 6s has.
> ...


Of course smartphone sales overall are up but Apple's endless growth - the thing they seem obsessed with - have flat lined and sales are predicted to fall this year. Android is doing far better, mainly because they offer cheaper entry points.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/26/apple-iphone-sales-slowdown-2007-drop-holiday


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 22, 2016)

So, not "down", just not growing as quickly. Not nearly as bad as Samsung and HTC though.
Android manufacturers are still primarily competing with each other.

(That bottom graph you posted is cumulative so is always going to look different to a straight quarterly sales graph)


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> So, not "down", just not growing as quickly.


Well, the forecasts do say that they will be 'down' compared to last year. Perhaps their cheaper phone may change that and they can keep on accumulating even more money for themselves. 

Apple Falls After Forecast for First Sales Drop Since 2003
Apple predicts first revenue decline in 13 years


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 22, 2016)

Even though they knew they were launching the SE, they still predicted a sales drop.
Either managing expectations or acknowledging that the SE is likely to cannibalize sales of the 6s which will cause a bigger drop in revenue.


----------



## paolo (Mar 22, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I like the look of the iPhone SE. It's a sensible price too for a product carrying basically the same specs as the 6S.



I've rather substantially smashed my 5S (five drops down concrete steps - ouch!)... but when I tried the 6 in the shop I found it was too big for me to use one handed. And I also didn't like curved edges... Too easy to slide out of ones hand.

So the SE looks perfect for me, will get one soon. The price thing is a bonus, but for me it's all about size.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2016)

editor said:


> Sales are down dues to Android's dominance, so they've got to reduce prices.



More likely sales are down because they're running out of wealthy westerners prepared to pay their high prices...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 24, 2016)

When I just got my 6S one of the things I said on its thread was it was too big. Now, I love the screen real estate, and it makes a big difference to how I use it as opposed to my previous 4, but I might have given it some pause had the SE been out already.

Him indoors is looking to upgrade from a 3G so the SE will fit the bill nicely.


----------



## moon (Mar 24, 2016)

I love Steve Wozniak


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2016)

Watched the recent event properly the other day and it convinced there's a MASSIVE hint about Apple's future hidden in plain view. And it's name is Liam...


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 29, 2016)

The SE might just tempt me to switch from Android. I want something small light and fast.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> The SE might just tempt me to switch from Android. I want something small light and fast.


I'd look at the Sony z5 Compact first and save yourself a pile of cash and get a much better battery life and water protection too.

Apple iPhone SE vs. Sony Xperia Z5 Compact - GSMArena.com


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 1, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> The SE might just tempt me to switch from Android. I want something small light and fast.



It's a solid phone with snappy specs. Well worth it if you want a phone experience that just works. If you like tinkering under the hood, use a lot of Google products and don't mind their approach to user privacy then Android might be a better option.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 1, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's a solid phone with snappy specs. Well worth it if you want a phone experience that just works. If you like tinkering under the hood, use a lot of Google products and don't mind their approach to user privacy then Android might be a better option.



What tinkering under the hood do you have to do?


----------



## souljacker (May 1, 2016)

moon said:


> I love Steve Wozniak




That's a really nice video. 






			
				Steve Woz said:
			
		

> I'll stay at the bottom of the org chart being an engineer because that's where I want to be.


----------



## editor (May 2, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> What tinkering under the hood do you have to do?


None whatsoever.


----------



## gosub (May 2, 2016)

moon said:


> I love Steve Wozniak




He attended a conference in the UK in the last couple of weeks.  Sky News got to interview him, asked him two questions ne about making phone encryption available to the US government, the other on Apple tax affairs.   


Think Sky need a different tech reporter.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 3, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> What tinkering under the hood do you have to do?



You don't *have* to but if you want the most out of it you'll have to configure it which means lots of mucking about with settings and possibly rooting it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 3, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You don't *have* to but if you want the most out of it you'll have to configure it which means lots of mucking about with settings and possibly rooting it.



What settings do you have to change? 

There is about as much need to root an android device as there is to jailbreak an iPhone.


----------



## editor (May 3, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> What settings do you have to change?
> 
> There is about as much need to root an android device as there is to jailbreak an iPhone.


You don't have to change anything. It works perfectly well straight out of the box. No fiddling about needed at all.


----------



## elbows (May 3, 2016)

Finally got to try the Pencil and whoa, its actually really nice. I'm sure needs vary so the iPad pro's are obviously not best for everyone that wants a tablet with stylus but those who spend a lot of time with that sort of thing might want to try one out to see how it varies from the alternatives - it feels different but I don't think I can describe it properly myself.


----------



## cybershot (May 4, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's a solid phone with snappy specs. Well worth it if you want a phone experience that just works. If you like tinkering under the hood, use a lot of Google products and don't mind their approach to user privacy then Android might be a better option.



I started off with Android and moves to iOS with the iPhone 4s. I still use Google for my backend of emails/calendar/contacts and also have the google photos app. It's pretty easy to be able to use Google's stuff without having to move it out to an Apple version.


----------



## cybershot (May 4, 2016)

gosub said:


> He attended a conference in the UK in the last couple of weeks.  Sky News got to interview him, asked him two questions ne about making phone encryption available to the US government, the other on Apple tax affairs.
> 
> 
> Think Sky need a different tech reporter.



The BBC asked him the exact same questions, maybe it's all they were allowed to talk about.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2016)

cybershot said:


> The BBC asked him the exact same questions, maybe it's all they were allowed to talk about.



Yup all carefully coordinated...


----------



## gosub (May 5, 2016)

Apple Stole My Music. No, Seriously.

one of the most common explantations I here off people I know who buy Apple is well I got sucked in through ipod and access to my music. ..


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2016)

gosub said:


> Apple Stole My Music. No, Seriously.
> 
> one of the most common explantations I here off people I know who buy Apple is well I got sucked in through ipod and access to my music. ..



That's fucked up.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 5, 2016)

No, Apple Music is not deleting tracks off your hard drive — unless you tell it to


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 5, 2016)

Yeah, I got a bit worried by reading that original article and checked and it's bullshit.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2016)

Apple Music/iTunes is still a mess mind


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 5, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Apple Music/iTunes is still a mess mind


Oh iTunes is a spectacular bloated mess that desperately needs splitting apart into more manageable chunks.

The idea that it will randomly delete stuff form your hard drive is bollocks though.


----------



## gosub (May 5, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh iTunes is a spectacular bloated mess that desperately needs splitting apart into more manageable chunks.
> 
> The idea that it will randomly delete stuff form your hard drive is bollocks though.


Last Apple tech I was on board with was the macintosh (apple 2 had been useful too) was forwarded to me by someone I know also didn't go down Apple route.  Seemed interesting, but I'll take your word on its veracity


----------



## elbows (May 6, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Apple Music/iTunes is still a mess mind



It's quite funny how bad they are at some of this stuff. Allegedly some of their dev focus for this year has been making Apple Music better, which shouldn't be hard as its such a mess. I expect some improvements later this year but not enough to make it a brilliant experience.

They don't seem to have the first clue what they are doing with improving iOS app store either - I can't find any good app discovery for apps that can make use of the Apple Pencil for example - how stupid is that?


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2016)

Don't even mention the Mac App Store lol


----------



## elbows (May 6, 2016)

Oh yeah. I'm quite glad app stores haven't taken the desktop by storm on either OS X or Windows and there is little doubt that Apples effort on this front is crap.


----------



## sim667 (May 6, 2016)

Didn't know whether to start a thread, or just stick it here.

Suicide by Gunshot at Apple HQ 

Police Investigating Death at Apple's Cupertino Campus


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2016)

The Mail app on OSX has been annoying me a lot recently.

Previous version (Lion) sporadically lost my sent messages completely.

Recently went to El Capitan and now the search in Mail doesn't seem to work properly, so I often can't find stuff without tedious manual searches.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 9, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh iTunes is a spectacular bloated mess that desperately needs splitting apart into more manageable chunks.
> 
> The idea that it will randomly delete stuff form your hard drive is bollocks though.



So much this. It doesn't make any sense to have iTunes stuffed full of everything in this day and age.

Apple Music works fine for me but I still don't see the point in that connect thing. Never shows me anything new and I'd prefer to be able quick access my playlists via that...


----------



## sim667 (May 27, 2016)

iPhone manufacturer Foxconn is replacing 60,000 workers with robots



> Foxconn is one of the largest electronics manufacturers worldwide and the supplier for Samsung and Apple. The company has recently invested in automated manufacturing by replacing 60,000 workers with robots. Since profits are higher with fewer factory workers, the company’s employees were reduced to 50,000 from 110,000.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 27, 2016)

Yup. That Liam thing they showed off recently is the future of Apple products manufacturing...


.


----------



## teqniq (May 27, 2016)

The only thing I use iTunes for is backing up my phone and software updates. All my music requirements and indeed video ones are met with VideoLan


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 27, 2016)

I don't use iTunes for anything other than music on my Mac. It never gets opened on my iPhone or iPad...


.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 28, 2016)

Revealed: Apple to create stunning new HQ at Battersea Power Station



> Apple is to create a spectacular new London headquarters at Battersea Power Station in a massive coup for the developers behind the £9 billion project.
> 
> The iPhone and iPad maker will move 1,400 staff from eight sites around the capital into what it calls “a new Apple campus” at the Grade II* listed former electricity generator.
> 
> Its employees will occupy all six floors of office space in the brick “cathedral of power”, which is being painstakingly restored after 33 years standing derelict on the banks of the Thames.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Revealed: Apple to create stunning new HQ at Battersea Power Station


Probably some sort of sweetener for tax deals. Where's the "stunning" building, btw?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 28, 2016)

From what I understood it'll be in the redeveloped Battersea Power Station.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 28, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> From what I understood it'll be in the redeveloped Battersea Power Station.



Yes.

Has been fairly widely rumoured for a while that Apple were looking at it.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> From what I understood it'll be in the redeveloped Battersea Power Station.


That whole area looks ugly as fuck now that they've built huge glass boxes all around it.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 28, 2016)

Damn, when I saw updates to this thread I thought there had finally been an MBP rumour update.


----------



## RoyReed (Sep 28, 2016)

editor said:


> That whole area looks ugly as fuck now that they've built huge glass boxes all around it.


Yeah, considering what they've surrounded the old power station with they might as well have knocked it down.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 28, 2016)

editor said:


> Probably some sort of sweetener for tax deals.



No profit here mate, honest. The Irish make all the money. We just sit here looking good. Honest.


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2016)

cybershot said:


> Damn, when I saw updates to this thread I thought there had finally been an MBP rumour update.



Funnily enough there has been!

Apple Likely Aiming for Late October Launch of Redesigned MacBook Pro


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Sep 29, 2016)

Just bought the new 4th gen Apple TV, with Siri-enabled remote control. It's nice, albeit a bit sensitive, but the annoying thing is that the voice-enabled search is only capable of finding stuff in iTunes - looks like the "Search YouTube for funny cat videos" functionality didn't make it to the UK yet.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 30, 2016)

elbows said:


> Funnily enough there has been!
> 
> Apple Likely Aiming for Late October Launch of Redesigned MacBook Pro


Woo, getting desperate now, my Acer has a dodgy power socket and trying to keep it charged is becoming a mare.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 30, 2016)

The first person in my office to get an iPhone 7 has just come in and forgotten his fucking headphone adapter at home on the very first day.

Now his Beats are on his desk impotent and worthless.

PMSL.


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> The first person in my office to get an iPhone 7 has just come in and forgotten his fucking headphone adapter at home on the very first day.
> 
> Now his Beats are on his desk impotent and worthless.
> 
> PMSL.


Hahahahahaha!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 30, 2016)

If you plug an iPhone into a Mac running iTunes (probably works on Windows too, never tried it), you can play the music from your phone on the computer which probably does have a headphone socket. So you can charge and listen on wired headphones without needing an adapter.

Probably not much use to him, but useful to know generally. 

Anyway, if he's bought an iPhone 7 already, he'll probably buy some iPhone-specific Beats when they bring them out. He's obviously not that worried about spending money...


----------



## strung out (Sep 30, 2016)

I popped into an Apple shop the other day to have a play on the iPhone 7. I don't know what it is, but the design feels so much nastier than the iPhone 6, especially the black model.


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> If you plug an iPhone into a Mac running iTunes (probably works on Windows too, never tried it), you can play the music from your phone on the computer which probably does have a headphone socket. So you can charge and listen on wired headphones without needing an adapter.


You'd have to have emo levels of self hatred to willingly inflict iTunes on your own Windows machine.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 30, 2016)

I don't use it on OS X except to backup my phone.


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2016)

Here's one unsatisfied customer with a very big bill coming his way:


----------



## gosub (Sep 30, 2016)

Quelle etait son problem?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> The first person in my office to get an iPhone 7 has just come in and forgotten his fucking headphone adapter at home on the very first day.
> 
> Now his Beats are on his desk impotent and worthless.
> 
> PMSL.



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


.


----------



## editor (Oct 3, 2016)

gosub said:


> Quelle etait son problem?


'Eeee forgot 'eeees owyousay 'eadphone adaptorrrr.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2016)

Love that new Mac smell? Now you can buy a candle that smells like a freshly-opened Apple product


----------



## teqniq (Oct 4, 2016)




----------



## Winot (Oct 4, 2016)

Some people have money to burn.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2016)

They really do...


.


----------



## elbows (Oct 27, 2016)

I'm a sucker for the touch bar of the new macbook pro. Not got money to burn though but its provided me with the first reason in many years to actually visit an apple store to see what it's like.

It looks like it might make interaction with apps less tedious, but there is no affordable way to evaluate this at the moment and in any case the app support is key and that will take a while.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 27, 2016)

Function keys were always reprogrammable parts of the keyboard, so it seems like a sensible progression to me from having to remember wtf cmd-F1 does. However it will definitely be years before it's standard use, given that apps still have to support legacy keyboards.


----------



## elbows (Oct 27, 2016)

I suppose what I really hope for is that it catches on in terms of app support, and then someone hacks it so that stuff thats meant to display on the touch bar can appear on other mobile devices with multitouch screens instead. At least from a 'I want to play but I dont want to spend more money' point of view.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 27, 2016)

Losing MagSafe is rather shit. Thats saved my machine on several occasions.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 27, 2016)

elbows said:


> I suppose what I really hope for is that it catches on in terms of app support, and then someone hacks it so that stuff thats meant to display on the touch bar can appear on other mobile devices with multitouch screens instead.


I think lots of apps will support it in some way very soon, given that Apple usually provide nice easy hooks to exploit the new features of their OS and hardware. The question of how _useful_ that support will be, though... If I were a small app developer I'd be thinking "cool, new toy, I'm going to put some touchbar stuff into the next version of FancyPants.app! but not anything that's essential because only some tiny percentage of my users will have it at all". I see it a bit like Apple Watch app versions.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 27, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Losing MagSafe is rather shit. Thats saved my machine on several occasions.


Griffin do a sort of MagSafe for about £30.
New prices put my new MacBook Pro way off into the distance.
BreakSafe Magnetic USB C Charging Cable | Griffin


----------



## cybershot (Oct 27, 2016)

Yup, new prices are a lot more than I was hoping, even with a nice work discount on Apple products it will still be pricey, was hoping to get a 15" but that is out the price range by a long shot, the 13" 16GB RAM,  512GB Storage would be as well if it wasn't for a recent windfall!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 27, 2016)

To be honest my 2012 Air still does everything I need, so I've no reason to upgrade...


----------



## cybershot (Oct 28, 2016)

cybershot said:


> Yup, new prices are a lot more than I was hoping, even with a nice work discount on Apple products it will still be pricey, was hoping to get a 15" but that is out the price range by a long shot, the 13" 16GB RAM,  512GB Storage would be as well if it wasn't for a recent windfall!



Actually changed my mind overnight and think I'll give it a miss this time round, desperate for a new laptop, but don't think I want to cough up £1800 when I can get something key spec wise as good on Windows for pretty much a grand less.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 28, 2016)

Total $207


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 28, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Total $207


Or just get one of the many little hubs available that do all that for 30 quid.


----------



## paolo (Oct 28, 2016)

Regarding the prices on the new MBPs... and, ahem, everything else now...

Brexit hits Apple Mac customers hard as prices rise by up to £500


----------



## cybershot (Oct 28, 2016)

Belkin Debuts New Thunderbolt 3 Express Dock HD


----------



## sim667 (Oct 28, 2016)

paolo said:


> Regarding the prices on the new MBPs... and, ahem, everything else now...
> 
> Brexit hits Apple Mac customers hard as prices rise by up to £500



The price rises occurred everywhere...... its simply not just due to brexit.

In some instances if you do the math, we actually pay a little bit less than the US for mac products now.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2016)

I quite like the look of that bar thing on the new Macbooks although the machines are ludicrously expensive. Lenovo did something a while back but their version didn't prove popular. I'd still prefer a proper touchscreen though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2016)

Some very nice new laptops! Love that touch bar thing and Touch ID finally!

Pricey but going to replace my 6.5 year old MacBook Pro for a new one in  a few weeks.[emoji41]


.


----------



## paolo (Oct 29, 2016)

Plus point: The Mac laptop I bought three years ago is as fast and crisp as day one (I drilled sooooo many dead windows laptops. They were cheap. And cost me more money in wasted)

Bad point: I soooo want the new one. Shiny things.


----------



## elbows (Oct 29, 2016)

sim667 said:


> The price rises occurred everywhere...... its simply not just due to brexit.
> 
> In some instances if you do the math, we actually pay a little bit less than the US for mac products now.



You keep saying that but I'm not sure as its true. Did the Mac Pro go up massively in dollars?

As for why we pay a bit less than US for some products, thats probably because Apple decided to continue 'taking a hit' on some products, whilst adjusting others according to exchange rate changes since the last repricing event.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2016)

paolo said:


> Plus point: The Mac laptop I bought three years ago is as fast and crisp as day one (I drilled sooooo many dead windows laptops. They were cheap. And cost me more money in wasted)
> 
> Bad point: I soooo want the new one. Shiny things.



I gave up on Windows in 2010 after ten years in which I bought FOUR different PCs which all slowed to the point of near uselessness within a a couple years. My 13" MacBook Pro took nearly six years before the speed became an issue. Plus no idiotic Windows updates to deal with!


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 29, 2016)

sim667 said:


> The price rises occurred everywhere...... its simply not just due to brexit.
> 
> In some instances if you do the math, we actually pay a little bit less than the US for mac products now.



My 128gb iPhone 6s Plus cost £789 last year. The 7 plus with same storage costs £819. I have to say mate I find it hard to believe that's not Brexit induced.


.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 29, 2016)

paolo said:


> Plus point: The Mac laptop I bought three years ago is as fast and crisp as day one (I drilled sooooo many dead windows laptops. They were cheap. And cost me more money in wasted)
> 
> Bad point: I soooo want the new one. Shiny things.


My late 2010 MacBook Air is still going fine (could do with a larger SSD but that's not really its fault). My 27" iMac of a similar vintage is also fine—I thought I might need to change the HD recently but actually it was just some weird corruption issue and a reformat fixed it. The whole TCO issue with Macs is definitely true IME, though there was a period a couple of years before that when build quality went way down.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 31, 2016)

elbows said:


> You keep saying that but I'm not sure as its true.



Its the first time I've ever said it


----------



## sim667 (Oct 31, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> My 128gb iPhone 6s Plus cost £789 last year. The 7 plus with same storage costs £819. I have to say mate I find it hard to believe that's not Brexit induced.
> 
> 
> .



The MacBook dilemma: Pay more, or get an old machine


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 31, 2016)

sim667 said:


> The price rises occurred everywhere...... its simply not just due to brexit.
> 
> In some instances if you do the math, we actually pay a little bit less than the US for mac products now.


None of the existing products changed price in the US. They did in the UK though.
For example:
Macbook 12" with m3 CPU and 256GB SSD went from £1049 to £1249. US RRP remained $1299 (ex tax)
MacBook 12" with m5 CPU and 512GB SSD went from £1299 to £1549. US RRP remained $1599 (ex tax)

Electrolux (from Sweden) have also put their prices up 10%, also to compensate for currency fluctuation.
Not all retailers have updated their prices so there are some savings to be made if you were already intending buying in the near future.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2016)

sim667 said:


> The MacBook dilemma: Pay more, or get an old machine


Ouch!


> In one fell swoop, Apple raised the entry-level price for professionals looking to buy its laptops by an enormous 50 percent: from $1,000 to $1,500. Anything less than that, and you can only get a machine that's a year or two old. Sure, that old Air or Pro will still do its job, but for a cost-conscious professional or small business, it makes far more sense to buy a Dell, HP or aLenovo and get a 13-inch laptop with the latest processors and the latest design starting at around $1,000.
> 
> 
> By the way, when I say "latest processors," I mean Intel's Kaby Lake processors; those are one generation ahead than the Skylake processors Apple is using in its newest MacBook Pros.
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Oct 31, 2016)

editor said:


> Ouch!



As far as the processors go, the Kaby Lake processors have some restrictions that the Skylake processors don't.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2016)

The lack of a SD slot seems a ridiculous omission.



> The new MacBook Pros don't have SD card slots.
> 
> What?!?
> 
> ...





> Moreover, Apple's stupid design-first mantra is actually back-asswards anyway, because the cleaner the machine, the more your desk, not to mention your luggage, is cluttered with dongles and peripherals and other shit. I can see this working OK for a desktop unit, though, where you can use the USB-C/Thunderbolt port to connect to something that's actually useful for connectivity like a dock, even though that completely defeats the purpose of the alleged simplicity they're going for. But really, when you're on the road, traveling, the last thing you want to do is to have to carry along and keep track of a bunch of different connector cables and dongles. And what if you encounter a situation while traveling that you don't happen to be carrying the proper dongle for? That's another reasons why laptops should have maximal connectivity and why maximal connectivity is good.
> 
> I'm not an expert on computers, but as a photographer I see this as a _major_ fail on Apple's part. You might disagree, so go ahead, tell me about that.



The Good and Bad of the New MacBook Pro


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2016)




----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 31, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I gave up on Windows in 2010 after ten years in which I bought FOUR different PCs which all slowed to the point of near uselessness within a a couple years. My 13" MacBook Pro took nearly six years before the speed became an issue. Plus no idiotic Windows updates to deal with!
> 
> 
> .




My Windows 7 laptop is just shy of 4 years old and as nippy as when box-fresh. Has a lot to do with the lap top and not the OS I reckon. Samsung Series 9, battery life is still pretty bloody good too and it's had shit-loads of use.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 31, 2016)

Windows gets slower over time, it's just the nature of it, depending on how well you work you can make it last a long time without the need for a reformat. I tinker with my machines too much, but I think I did manage to get to the stage where at one point i didn't reinstall for over 12 months. This was on Windows 8, would probably have lasted longer had I not jumped on Windows 10 pretty early.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Losing MagSafe is rather shit. Thats saved my machine on several occasions.


Why did they get rid of it? I've always admired that feature.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 31, 2016)

editor said:


> Why did they get rid of it? I've always admired that feature.


Lost in the great move to USB-C for everything. It's their biggest mistake imho.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Lost in the great move to USB-C for everything. It's their biggest mistake imho.


That and the lack of an SD card slot would really makes life difficult for me if I was taking a Mac on the road. I get their endless quest for 'simplicity' and refinement, but it seems that they're sacrificing an awful lot of useful stuff in their drive for aesthetically pleasing laptops. It won't look so beautiful after someone trips over the USB-C cable and sends it crashing to the ground.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 31, 2016)

I guess if you can afford a new Mac you can afford some of those wireless SD cards?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 31, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I guess if you can afford a new Mac you can afford some of those wireless SD cards?


Yeah, all part of Apples wireless vision of the future.

One day everything will get there but it's a total pain in the arse while we go through the changeover period.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I guess if you can afford a new Mac you can afford some of those wireless SD cards?


They're slower than a SD slot and burn up your camera's batteries. So I guess you can add 'spare battery' to the list of extras you have to lug around for Apple's wonderful wireless (but dongle-laden) future.


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Its the first time I've ever said it



Apologies, I thought you said it several times on this thread but in fact I was just reading your same post more than once, oops.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 2, 2016)

Apparently apples reason for this is because with modern cameras there's no need for an sd card slot! I assume that means as long as you've bought a camera in the past 12 months it has wifi built in?


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2016)

If we're talking SLRs, it depends on the body. For total coverage, there would need to be SD and Compact Flash, and if you start heading down that route (with display ports etc) you end up with a machine with a myriad of different connectors. Which isn't the future.

The transition is indeed going to be messy for many users, dongle city. But once we're there - just one standard port, and widely supported by peripherals - nobody is going to want to go back to the idea of everything having a different port or slot.

But, MagSafe, that's the one I'll personally miss. Hey ho, we'll all have our personal 'step too far' eliminations.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2016)

paolo said:


> If we're talking SLRs, it depends on the body. For total coverage, there would need to be SD and Compact Flash, and if you start heading down that route (with display ports etc) you end up with a machine with a myriad of different connectors. Which isn't the future.
> 
> The transition is indeed going to be messy for many users, dongle city. But once we're there - just one standard port, and widely supported by peripherals - nobody is going to want to go back to the idea of everything having a different port or slot.
> 
> But, MagSafe, that's the one I'll personally miss. Hey ho, we'll all have our personal 'step too far' eliminations.


But this wonderful vision falls apart because that one single port is going to need many, many adaptors to fit everything in, unless people are just going to throw away everything that isn't wireless or USB-C.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 2, 2016)

I have to say that I've never missed not having an SD slot on my laptop. USB card readers are tiny and you don't use them very often, just when actually downloading photos to a computer. I just carry one which does both SD and CF (because I have cameras that do both) if I've got my laptop and using it has never been an issue.

Losing Magsafe would be annoying... but the worst by far is losing the startup chime. Now _that_ is _sacrilege_


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 2, 2016)

editor said:


> But this wonderful vision falls apart because that one single port is going to need many, many adaptors to fit everything in, unless people are just going to throw away everything that isn't wireless or USB-C.



I quite like the bold future. As I never will be able to afford a new Mac then fortunately I will be able to get their at a more reasonable pace then Apple puts on their users.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 2, 2017)

So this arrived late last week! So far it's bloody great![emoji41]


.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 6, 2017)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2017)

[emoji848]


.


----------



## editor (Jan 8, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


>



That's brilliant


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 13, 2017)

Apple put their prices up by £60 on all their older products except the base models last night.

Monday: iPad Pro 256GB - £709
Tuesday: iPad Pro 256GB - £769



If you're looking to buy an older Apple product, you should do it fast and find a 3rd party retailer who might not yet have put their prices up.


----------



## paolo (Sep 13, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Apple put their prices up by £60 on all their older products except the base models last night.
> 
> Monday: iPad Pro 256GB - £709
> Tuesday: iPad Pro 256GB - £769
> ...



Just been reading about this. Commentary was talking about NAND shortage. The push into the 3D tech is hitting production of the conventional stuff (used in today's mobile devices).

Ouch.


----------



## editor (Feb 19, 2018)

All swishy design and no common sense it seems.



> Emergency services have treated Apple staff for injuries caused by walking into glazed walls at the company's new Foster + Partners-designed Apple Park campus in Cupertino, California, according to reports.
> 
> The $5 billion (£3.6 billion) campus features numerous glass walls, which are being misjudged by users of building causing collisions and resulting in several people receiving medical treatment.
> 
> ...



Apple staff "physically hurt" by walking into glass walls at Foster-designed campus | Dezeen


----------



## electroplated (Feb 20, 2018)

I'm amazed they are allowed glass walls in the first place - In my last 2 offices the glass walls of meeting rooms and edit suits were etched or marked with some sort of stripe at chest height precisely to avoid this very well known danger (despite everyone agreeing it would be more eye pleasing if there was no markings, H&S rules were clear as far as I know)


----------



## cybershot (Feb 21, 2018)

The 2018 World's Most Innovative Companies | Fast Company

1. Apple



> But creativity is more than skin deep—and Apple’s approach to the hardware and software engineering that creates its experiences has never been more ambitious.
> 
> Apple has also made major inroads in artificial intelligence, an area where the competition from companies such as Google couldn’t be any more daunting. For instance, it uses AI techniques to wring as much life as possible out of the iPhone’s battery.
> 
> In March 2016, Apple announced CareKit, an open-source platform that makes it easier for developers to aggregate and share patients' medical information with their caregivers—all with consent. Since its launch, CareKit has already been used to make apps to help patients manage diabetes (One Drop), monitor depression (Iodine), track reproductive health (Glow), and record asthma symptoms (Cleveland Clinic). Apple's approach to health is to operate behind the scenes by helping researchers, patients, and developers to make use of the health data they're collecting via a smartphone.


----------



## peterkro (Feb 21, 2018)

electroplated said:


> I'm amazed they are allowed glass walls in the first place - In my last 2 offices the glass walls of meeting rooms and edit suits were etched or marked with some sort of stripe at chest height precisely to avoid this very well known danger (despite everyone agreeing it would be more eye pleasing if there was no markings, H&S rules were clear as far as I know)


The new US embassy in London has stars etched on the windows to prevent "intelligence" officers walking through them given the glass is up to six inches thick I doubt walking through them is going to be a problem.Being stunned by trying to walk through them is one of life's little intelligence tests.


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## elbows (Feb 26, 2018)

The cunts lost in their shit attempt to ban french tax protesters from outside Apple stores.

Apple Denied Request to Ban Tax Protestors From Its Stores in France


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## editor (Feb 26, 2018)

elbows said:


> The cunts lost in their shit attempt to ban french tax protesters from outside Apple stores.
> 
> Apple Denied Request to Ban Tax Protestors From Its Stores in France


Good. They're such a fucking shitty, arrogant company.


----------



## paolo (Feb 28, 2018)

electroplated said:


> I'm amazed they are allowed glass walls in the first place - In my last 2 offices the glass walls of meeting rooms and edit suits were etched or marked with some sort of stripe at chest height precisely to avoid this very well known danger (despite everyone agreeing it would be more eye pleasing if there was no markings, H&S rules were clear as far as I know)



It’s law in California to have markings.

Whether they have the required markings or not hasn’t been completely clear (ho ho) in the reports I read.

Would be a bit weird for them to be breaking the building codes. Even though it’s a British designed building, a practice as big as Foster is going to know that there are rules.


----------



## RoyReed (Feb 28, 2018)

Built by Geniuses for Geniuses!


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2018)

I'm sat next to a bloke who has a MacBook with one of those 'power bar' things (or whatever it is they're called). I thought he was on some generic gimmicky Windows machine as it looks so rubbish. I think the Air was a brilliant looking machine when it first came out, but I can't say I'm impressed with their new stuff (or the sky high price).


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## Mr.Bishie (Feb 28, 2018)

Yeah, that ‘touch bar’ really didnt warrant such a price hike! A gimmick is just what it is.


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Yeah, that ‘touch bar’ really didnt warrant such a price hike! A gimmick is just what it is.


Lenovo tried a similar thing years ago and met with the same kind of indifference. It doesn't even look good.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 28, 2018)

The Lemmings bar.


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## cybershot (Apr 2, 2018)

Apple could be about to ditch Intel processors. Probably not as drastic news to application makers as it would have been years ago (and one of the reasons for switching to Intel processors originally) if the processor is designed to run the same software already on iOS. The real problem comes for apps that are not on the app stores and would never get permission to get on them, such as torrent clients and what not.

Apple Plans to Ditch Intel and Use Custom Mac Chips Starting in 2020


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 2, 2018)

That would be a pain in the bum seeing as how I’ve just bought a new MBP which I expected to last ten years or so (no lemmings bar though). Not sure how reliable that really is mind.


----------



## Chz (Apr 3, 2018)

That's been a rumour bouncing around since 2012. They could very well move the entry-level Macbooks to their ARM platform, but they've nothing for the Pro users. Many of whom depend on having access to a Windows VM on their Macs. Emulation isn't going to do the trick.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 10, 2018)

Apple now powered globally by '100% renewable energy'


----------



## editor (Apr 10, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Apple now powered globally by '100% renewable energy'


About time. 100% Renewable | Google Environment


----------



## cybershot (Apr 10, 2018)

editor said:


> About time. 100% Renewable | Google Environment



This is Apple discussion!


----------



## teuchter (Apr 10, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Apple now powered globally by '100% renewable energy'



All very well. But regarding its new HQ - the more significant energy use comes from how its employees get to and from work. And it's designed for them all to come individually by car if they want. There's an enormous parking garage with 10,000 spaces. It's horrendous.

Tim Cook calls the new Apple headquarters "the greenest building on the planet". It's not.


----------



## editor (Apr 10, 2018)

This looks like the dreadful car-centric plans that emerged in the grim 70s:


----------



## cybershot (Apr 10, 2018)

Anyway, back to the footprint, I suspect theres incentives to use electric vehicles, and plenty of charging stations!


----------



## teqniq (Apr 10, 2018)

Pity though that the batteries are glued into their laptops and the RAM is soldered on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 14, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Apple now powered globally by '100% renewable energy'



Impressive work for a company of that size.


.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 15, 2018)

Would be if it were true.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2018)

Apple Is Deleting Bought Films From iTunes Accounts - And Don't Expect A Refund

This seems like a particularly cunty move by Apple. Thankfully I never really bought into the world of the iTunes store. Seems like I was justified in my suspicions.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 14, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple Is Deleting Bought Films From iTunes Accounts - And Don't Expect A Refund
> 
> This seems like a particularly cunty move by Apple. Thankfully I never really bought into the world of the iTunes store. Seems like I was justified in my suspicions.


I've suffered with this in music.


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## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I've suffered with this in music.



It's totally out of order! You buy something expecting to own it for life, and they just withdraw it at a whim with no guarantee of a refund.

This is class action lawsuit territory no?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 14, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's totally out of order! You buy something expecting to own it for life, and they just withdraw it at a whim with no guarantee of a refund.
> 
> This is class action lawsuit territory no?


No idea.

I don't use it since the introduction of apple music and started keeping back ups of the files as they're drm free.


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## cybershot (Sep 14, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple Is Deleting Bought Films From iTunes Accounts - And Don't Expect A Refund
> 
> This seems like a particularly cunty move by Apple. Thankfully I never really bought into the world of the iTunes store. Seems like I was justified in my suspicions.



It's a worrying landscape, at not just Apple to worry about on this front when you buy things. Microsoft wanted to go down this route on the Xbox One, and got the backlash. Obviously the store exists, but what about when they decide to remove it from their servers years down the line when Xbox One et al is no longer supported.

There's a reason Nintendo released mini versions of the NES and SNES, people love nostalgia.

Imagine pulling your old console out the loft, and not being able to play a game, because, well, the servers don't exist anymore.

Media will remain king for a while yet, and piracy will remain because of these risks with streaming services. People want to own stuff.

I imagine you'd have the same problem with Sky if you decided to cancel your account. I know you can get the disc with some purchases, but still. Why would anyone buy something on sky store without the option of the media as well.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 14, 2018)

Definitely happens with Amazon too - there have been cases where people have had books removed from their Kindles.


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## Lazy Llama (Sep 14, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Definitely happens with Amazon too - there have been cases where people have had books removed from their Kindles.


And appropriately it was Orwell's "1984" that was being deleted, if I remember correctly.
Something to do with the publisher not having rights.
Amazon Settles Kindle


----------



## mhendo (Sep 14, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple Is Deleting Bought Films From iTunes Accounts - And Don't Expect A Refund
> 
> This seems like a particularly cunty move by Apple. Thankfully I never really bought into the world of the iTunes store. Seems like I was justified in my suspicions.


This is a troubling development, and it's something I've always worried about with digital media. I still buy almost all my music as CDs, and rip the to FLAC myself.

Although I've got to admit that the Forbes article is a little thin on evidence, especially regarding the question of refunds.





> When an iTunes user in Canada complained to Apple that their initial offer of a free $5.99 rental hardly seemed suitable recompense for him having three bought films summarily removed from his account, Apple replied that “our ability to offer refunds diminishes over time. Hence your purchases doesn’t meet the conditions for a refund.”
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...


So some people have lost movies that they purchased, and it seems that the people DID generally get refunds, except for this one guy in Canada. Oh, and I couldn't be bothered actually waiting for Apple's official response before posting this story. Not particularly good journalism, IMO.


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## cybershot (Oct 18, 2018)

More new products on the way.

Expect iPads, MacBooks, possible rumours of new AirPods as the current ones seem to be out of stock everywhere and wait for it.......

A new Mac mini!!!

Although don’t expect it to be cheap. It’s rumoured the new Mac mini will actually be a ‘pro’ type device with high specs. The current model is now 4 years old and the tech in it is well past its best for the price. People have been hoping for a refresh for years but many of those wanted something in the same vain as the current one. Affordable as a full MacOS desktop system where you provide your own kvm. However it’s looking the affordable part may not be on Apples radar. Which will delight apples critics.

Also could we see the beginning of the end of the lightning port in favour of USB-C?

Apple Invites Media to October 30th Event in New York City


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 19, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Expect iPads, MacBooks, possible rumours of new AirPods as the current ones seem to be out of stock everywhere and wait for it.......



New airpods could be interesting. I think they're the most genuinely useful thing they've bought out in years.

Aside from better battery life, not sure how they could improve them. New colours? Black or graphite would be nice. Noise cancellation would be sweet, or conversely some kind of mic which aids hearing the outside world while at the same time also listening to music.


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## cybershot (Oct 30, 2018)

macevent2018 articles on Engadget

In brief
Apple's new iPad Pros swap Lightning ports for USB-C 
New iPad Pros pack larger displays thanks to Face ID
Apple's new Mac mini is all about increased power (Price starts at $799 and looks a good piece of kit)
Apple finally put a Retina display in the MacBook Air (starts at $1,199 though)


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 30, 2018)

No new airpods announced though, interesting.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 30, 2018)

I may regret posting this! Here goes...

Get ready to pay Apple $9 for an iPad headphone dongle


----------



## editor (Oct 30, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I may regret posting this! Here goes...
> 
> Get ready to pay Apple $9 for an iPad headphone dongle


I think people might have a bit of a right to feel like they're being taken for a ride here.


> get ready to pay $9 for a USB-C-to-3.5mm adapter, because Apple isn't including it in the box. Also, the new USB-C port on the iPad Pro means you can't use those Lightning headphones that came with your shiny new iPhone.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 31, 2018)

Apple have had to pull the watch 5.1 software update today as it seems to be bricking watch 4's. So if you've got one, and it offers to update, avoid.

Some people moaning about issues with the ios 12.1 update, but my phone has been fine.


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2018)

I've waited quite some years for a modern mac to exist that I actually wanted. The updated mac mini seems to fit that bill so I shall give it a try. I will use an eGPU with it at some point too. Interested in how loud the mac mini will be, as in the meantime I've been rather spoilt by building huge and quiet pc towers.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 31, 2018)

eGPU imposes a 20-30% performance hit if you're gaming at 1080p.


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2018)

Crispy said:


> eGPU imposes a 20-30% performance hit if you're gaming at 1080p.



Yes, I look forward to testing that sort of thing out for myself. I've got a beefy PC for gaming though, will be using the mac to develop things with Unity that require a decent GPU, but dont need maximum possible performance while developing. Like the new compute-shader based visual effects graph for Unity.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 31, 2018)

elbows said:


> Yes, I look forward to testing that sort of thing out for myself. I've got a beefy PC for gaming though, will be using the mac to develop things with Unity that require a decent GPU, but dont need maximum possible performance while developing. Like the new compute-shader based visual effects graph for Unity.



There's a fb group called mac pro upgrades where they take old mac pro cases, and just max the fuck out of them....... don't know if thats of interest to you as an alternative.


----------



## elbows (Oct 31, 2018)

sim667 said:


> There's a fb group called mac pro upgrades where they take old mac pro cases, and just max the fuck out of them....... don't know if thats of interest to you as an alternative.



Thanks. Not really the direction I'm going in, since I sold my old Mac Pro 2008 model a couple of years ago, and have no more space for towers after recently building a new PC of reasonably silly specification and size. I'm not a bit fan of iMacs or the trash can Mac Pro, so I had to fill in a couple of years by going down the hackintosh route, which worked out quite well but I really need a fully legit/standard system for reporting bugs during development using Unity etc.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 2, 2018)

The new ipad pro is more powerful than any laptop Apple currently sell (multi core rating. single core, there are just 3 laptop models that can beat it, and not by much). Apple will transition all their computers to their own ARM chips in the medium term; it's almost certain now.


----------



## Chz (Nov 2, 2018)

Lies, damned lies, and benchmarks. They _are_ very powerful, but I would guarantee the number of real-world tasks that are faster on a Macbook Pro outnumber those that are faster on the iPad Pro. Certainly anything with an extended run time, as the iPad can't possibly stop itself from thermal throttling.

Someday they'll move MacOS to ARM. But it's not short-term.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 2, 2018)

As well at this claim...

The new iPad Pro features less bezel, larger screens and USB-C



> The company is working to position the device as a serious gaming platform — even going so far as comparing favorably it to the new Xbox, demoing a Warriors vs. Nets game on NBA 2k. The graphics were certainly solid for a tablet gaming demo. Ditto for the ability to run a full version of Photoshop on the device. Adobe is also one of the companies helping push Apple’s ARKit augmented reality platform. The company also demoed a sneak peak of a file created on its Project Aero AR app.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 2, 2018)

Chz said:


> Lies, damned lies, and benchmarks. They _are_ very powerful, but I would guarantee the number of real-world tasks that are faster on a Macbook Pro outnumber those that are faster on the iPad Pro. Certainly anything with an extended run time, as the iPad can't possibly stop itself from thermal throttling.


Oh sure the thermals limit it in the ipad, but the A12 is a very impressive chip. They're ahead of Intel now on transistor count and process size (7nm!). With proper cooling, it certainly could totally go toe-to-toe with x86. And you just *know* they keep ARM builds of macOS updated behind the scenes. Just in case, like. I reckon it'll happen within 5 years.


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2018)

Crispy said:


> The new ipad pro is more powerful than any laptop Apple currently sell (multi core rating. single core, there are just 3 laptop models that can beat it, and not by much). Apple will transition all their computers to their own ARM chips in the medium term; it's almost certain now.





Crispy said:


> Oh sure the thermals limit it in the ipad, but the A12 is a very impressive chip. They're ahead of Intel now on transistor count and process size (7nm!). With proper cooling, it certainly could totally go toe-to-toe with x86. And you just *know* they keep ARM builds of macOS updated behind the scenes. Just in case, like. I reckon it'll happen within 5 years.



I agree. I hope they dont compromise on anything that stops me joining in with this journey in the years ahead, will be interesting finding out. In the meantime, GPU performance matters to me a lot so I will try to check out the new ipad pro at some point to see where they are at on that side of things.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 5, 2018)

Chz said:


> Lies, damned lies, and benchmarks


Some real-world tests in this review: New iPad Pro 2018 12.9-inch

  

Intel should be very worried.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 5, 2018)

Fuck! (written on a Dell XPS 13!)


----------



## Crispy (Nov 5, 2018)

Those are the sort of graphs Apple used to be able to show off when PowerPC had a real edge on Intel (and again 10 years later when Intel caught up and overtook)


----------



## cybershot (Nov 5, 2018)

Also I assume the app would need to stay in focus (and not auto lock) to achieve those results. So you still can't do anything else while the iPad is doing its thing. Although in most cases I would just go off and leave the computer to it when doing something like the above, but sometimes it's nice to be able to do some simple web surfing at the cost of adding a few minutes.


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

The Verge is not quite so blown away with their $2,227 iPad Pro as it's a machine burdened with limitations and compromises:



> The one thing iOS can do with external storage devices is import photos: if you plug in a camera or a memory card from a camera, iOS 12 will automatically pop open the camera import screen and let you import photos into your camera roll.
> 
> That’s it. That is the sole way iOS 12 can address external storage. And to make matters worse, you are required to import to the system camera roll — you can’t import photos directly into an app like Lightroom CC. Apple has to be in the middle.
> 
> ...





> This little Lightroom vignette is basically the story of the iPad Pro: either you have to understand the limitations of iOS so well you can make use of these little hacks all over the place to get things done, or you just deal with it and accept that you have to go back to a real computer from time to time because it’s just easier. And in that case, you might as well just use a real computer.





> And, most irritatingly, Apple refuses to support Google’s VP9 video codec, so there is literally no way to watch YouTube in 4K on the iPad Pro. You just can’t do it.
> 
> I can see any number of ways for me to get rid of my laptop and use the iPad Pro as my main computer — using an iPad is extremely pleasant, and it’s nice to use a computer with a touchscreen. But over and over again, some annoying iOS limitation stopped me from making the switch. I don’t think I’m just stuck in some old way of thinking, or that I need to to spend more time inventing a new workflow out of Siri Shortcuts and glue. It’s just basic stuff, like plugging in a flash drive to grab a file, or quickly changing the name of a document before emailing it off.
> 
> I don’t think people should adapt to their computers. Computers should adapt to people.




Apple iPad Pro review 2018: the fastest iPad is still an iPad


----------



## Chz (Nov 5, 2018)

That all looks to me like Intel is going to have to offer a lot more options with AMD's graphics on the CPU. Crunching the numbers from everywhere, it looks like Apple has a CPU that's competitive with Intel at lower power levels. But what they've spent their time on is an onboard GPU that's worlds better than Intel's. Now those in the know are going to say "That's not exactly difficult, is it?", but AMD has failed to get their APUs into the mobile space so this is the first time that there's a powerful mobile CPU with plenty of GPU oomph to challenge Big Blue.

The one downside is that it runs iOS with all that processing prowess. People are going to want full-fat Photoshop, etc. with that much power. (particularly at the price point they're coming in at)


----------



## Crispy (Nov 5, 2018)

Chz said:


> full-fat Photoshop


Which is, to be fair, coming to iPad very soon.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 5, 2018)

It will take a lot of convincing me that I can ever replace a fully functioning desktop OS with an iPad iOS, especially at that price. I'd say for maybe 75% of things, fine. But right now there are too many apps outside of iOS which I would miss. 

Take nothing away from it though - those are some impressive stats, and yes I would like one please.


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> It will take a lot of convincing me that I can ever replace a fully functioning desktop OS with an iPad iOS, especially at that price. I'd say for maybe 75% of things, fine. But right now there are too many apps outside of iOS which I would miss.
> 
> Take nothing away from it though - those are some impressive stats, and yes I would like one please.


Those stats stats are wildly impressive but it's still a tablet with all the compromises that involves. Not being able to plug in an external drive is ridiculous and I'm not sure producing powerhouse tablets is even the greatest idea for many folks.

My £200 touchscreen Chromebook is probably little bigger than the iPad Pro and it does probably 85% of the things I use my desktop for, and I fancy a tablet - even a mental fast one - would have even more annoying limitations...


----------



## elbows (Nov 5, 2018)

Its certainly Apples own fault that all of the weaknesses and limitations of iOS are being talked about afresh now in relation to these new models, since Apple choose to market the thing as a pro computer.

There are many compromises that Apple have made over the years that I have been able to live with, some of which I was even happy about. But the success of the app store on iOS and what that has helped to entrench in Apples view of 'what a computer should be' is not positive and makes me think that eventually Apple stuff may occupy only a niche in my setup. 

My interest and ownership of ipads over the years was only really sustained after the initial 'tablet honeymoon period' by the lively music creation app situation on iOS. Especially given the price difference between those apps and equivalent apps on the desktop, which eventually starts to really help offset even silly ipad pro pricing.

Stuff that benefits massively from the apple pencil is another area I could imagine justifying the ipad pro to some users quite understandably. My own lack of ability to draw etc means I cant really tap into this justification myself though.

On the more general computing, surfing web etc front, it would be nice if I could use a large ipad for that task, but I dont have to go far beyond the most casual of sessions before I find myself wanting to be able to use a mouse. 

I always get excited about GPU improvements because I have an internal conflict - the stuff I am obsessed with making uses was too many watts of electricity when paired with beefy desktop GPUs, and the fanciful nature of what I'm doing makes me not very keen to think of how much electricity use my app could be responsible for if many people used it. So I've been growing old waiting for some mobile/low power computing options to gain sufficient grunt, and havent finished or released a desktop version in the meantime. Wanting to be able to test my stufff on the new ipad pro to see how it performs, combined with wanting to experiment with 120hz refresh rate, and wanting a larger screen for the music apps I use, means I suppose I am in the market for the new ipad pro despite the limitations and the hefty price. Not straight away though, although probably before the year is out.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 5, 2018)

Apparently, there's a bunch of iPad stuff that was meant to be for iOS 12 but they decided to park it and focus on bug fixing and efficiency, which is understandable given the bad press iOS has been getting recently. I guess we'll see in a year or so.

I find it rather funny that macOS is now very well formed, but Macs are all over the place, while iOS on iPads is a mess, but the hardware is incredible.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 5, 2018)

New AirPods Model Numbers Show Up in Bluetooth Database, Hinting at Upcoming Release


----------



## elbows (Nov 5, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Apparently, there's a bunch of iPad stuff that was meant to be for iOS 12 but they decided to park it and focus on bug fixing and efficiency, which is understandable given the bad press iOS has been getting recently. I guess we'll see in a year or so.
> 
> I find it rather funny that macOS is now very well formed, but Macs are all over the place, while iOS on iPads is a mess, but the hardware is incredible.



Well unless they are parking that stuff for more than one version, only have to wait till WWDC in June to find out whats coming.

I'm not sure I think of macs as being all over the place exactly, but I've not been overjoyed by whats been on offer. A lot of what made nearly every mac of the last 5 years or so of limited interest to me came down to it being too easy to compare the spec of the hardware on offer to standard pc equivalents, and the price gap/performance bang for buck just being way too massive even for me. And a lack of GPU options. I know eGPUs take a performance hit, but I am glad that this avenue is now at least official and a little bit mainstream. I dont mind paying a bit of a premium to get macOS, and in various models you are at least getting a brilliant screen for the hefty price tag. But a decrease in repairability/expandability coupled with intel cpus, AMD gpus etc not exactly being a match made in heaven in terms of the thermal design Apple tend to want to use to fit their physical 'style', has left me wanting in terms of macs. I couldnt justify the trash can mac pro or the imac pro, and there is every chance I wont be able to justify whatever pro mac they come up with next. I have been able to justify this years mac mini an hopefully it wont disappoint me, just over a week left till I find out. Ideally I would quite like this to be my last intel mac, and that by the time I need a new one in some years time, they will have gone down their own cpu & gpu route with interesting results. On the iOS front, I dont really expect the things I'd like to see change in iOS for ipads happen.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2018)

Better than the MacBook concludes this review. 



> There’s no doubt the new Air marks a sizable update. It’s pricier, too, though Apple’s kept things more in check here than with the Mac Mini. With all of its upgrades and lower price point to boot, the Air is the clear pick over the 12-inch MacBook in practically every way.
> 
> As a matter of fact, barring some major future upgrade, the 12-inch likely isn’t long for this world. And that’s perfectly fine. The new Air is very clearly the better buy.


MacBook Air review


----------



## elbows (Nov 6, 2018)

Looks like my slightly souped up mac mini is now due to be delivered later this week rather than next week.

And the initial reviews seem mostly positive, although from the couple I looked at so far Apple have been dishing out the i3 version for review. I'm not surprised the review are positive, as form factors like that of the mac mini were always going to benefit from this ssd era, just like everything else has. So apart from the price, there isnt too much for people to complain about, especially since Apple didnt go crazy with port removal on the mac mini.

Reviews seem to be saying that the fan is exceedingly quiet, although as I am getting a more powerful CPU in mine compared to what they have reviewed, I will just have to judge that for myself. I suppose its the only thing I'm slightly nervous about since I will be spending so much time with it, if it makes any noises that annoy me then I shall be disappointed.

My first ever mac was a mac mini. The price was rather different to what I have paid this time, but then again so is the performance.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 6, 2018)

elbows said:


> Looks like my slightly souped up mac mini is now due to be delivered later this week rather than next week.
> 
> And the initial reviews seem mostly positive, although from the couple I looked at so far Apple have been dishing out the i3 version for review. I'm not surprised the review are positive, as form factors like that of the mac mini were always going to benefit from this ssd era, just like everything else has. So apart from the price, there isnt too much for people to complain about, especially since Apple didnt go crazy with port removal on the mac mini.
> 
> ...



What size drive you gone for?


----------



## elbows (Nov 6, 2018)

cybershot said:


> What size drive you gone for?



I've been used to having around 500GB main system SSD drives for a few years now so thats what I went with. I built a silent NAS with a 1TB SSD and some QNAP fanless NAS enclosure recently and I am quite happy with it so far, and have also just got a cheap USB C 2.5" drive enclosure that I will use with existing SSD out of an old system to give me several external storage options.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 7, 2018)

It seems the new machines won't be able to boot linux any longer, which seems like a stupid move considering how many linux people love macs


----------



## 2hats (Nov 7, 2018)

sim667 said:


> It seems the new machines won't be able to boot linux any longer, which seems like a stupid move considering how many linux people love macs


Does the T2 interfere with virtualbox guest VMs?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 7, 2018)

2hats said:


> Does the T2 interfere with virtualbox guest VMs?



I don't know..... I'm assuming not, as it seems to be a kernel level issue, but I don't know 100%. If it does, this would effectively mean we can't use macs at work any longer.

Booting Linux Is Impossible On New Apple Hardware


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2018)

Another very mixed review for the iPad Pro 

2018 iPad Pro review: “What’s a computer?”


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 7, 2018)

sim667 said:


> It seems the new machines won't be able to boot linux any longer, which seems like a stupid move considering how many linux people love macs


Hmmm. 
It seems you can run VMware ESXi in them though. I wonder how that differs, would have thought the boot mechanism is pretty much the same.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 8, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Hmmm.
> It seems you can run VMware ESXi in them though. I wonder how that differs, would have thought the boot mechanism is pretty much the same.




I guess when you run it in ESXi, ESXi boots and then runs linux as a layer on top, rather than linux directly asking the kernel for authenticate the certificate.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 8, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I guess when you run it in ESXi, ESXi boots and then runs linux as a layer on top, rather than linux directly asking the kernel for authenticate the certificate.


Was thinking more about how ESXi is authenticated as an "approved" OS.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 8, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Was thinking more about how ESXi is authenticated as an "approved" OS.


Hmmmmm..... I don't know tbh.


----------



## 2hats (Nov 8, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Was thinking more about how ESXi is authenticated as an "approved" OS.


Maybe it offers up the appropriate Apple signed certs for boot?

I read that one can disable T2 secure boot by booting to recovery mode and selecting the Startup Security Utility from the Utilities menu, which is an option of sorts I guess. Am waiting to see someone confirm that Virtualbox can still play (ie run a Linux guest under Mac OS un the most recent hardware).


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 8, 2018)

2hats said:


> Maybe it offers up the appropriate Apple signed certs for boot?
> 
> I read that one can disable T2 secure boot by booting to recovery mode and selecting the Startup Security Utility from the Utilities menu, which is an option of sorts I guess. Am waiting to see someone confirm that Virtualbox can still play (ie run a Linux guest under Mac OS un the most recent hardware).


Yeah, Secure Boot can be disabled - Don't Panic, You Can Boot Linux on Apple's New Devices - OMG! Ubuntu!
I can't see how the secure boot would affect a guest OS in VirtualBox, that guest isn't touching the hardware boot process, the boot is handled by the virtualisation processes.


----------



## 2hats (Nov 8, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> I can't see how the secure boot would affect a guest OS in VirtualBox, that guest isn't touching the hardware boot process, the boot is handled by the virtualisation processes.


Yes, that’s what I would imagine. Though I’d like to know for sure before I burned any money on a new device.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> No new airpods announced though, interesting.



Yeah the big change there looks to be wireless charging...without their air power thing ready there’s not much point in changing the air pods...


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2018)

Crispy said:


> The new ipad pro is more powerful than any laptop Apple currently sell (multi core rating. single core, there are just 3 laptop models that can beat it, and not by much). Apple will transition all their computers to their own ARM chips in the medium term; it's almost certain now.



How the hell are they doing this without a fan?


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2018)

elbows said:


> Its certainly Apples own fault that all of the weaknesses and limitations of iOS are being talked about afresh now in relation to these new models, since Apple choose to market the thing as a pro computer.
> 
> There are many compromises that Apple have made over the years that I have been able to live with, some of which I was even happy about. But the success of the app store on iOS and what that has helped to entrench in Apples view of 'what a computer should be' is not positive and makes me think that eventually Apple stuff may occupy only a niche in my setup.
> 
> ...



The hardware is years ahead of the software at this point. I’ll lay good money that will see a major rethink of iOS in the next 24 months.


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Apparently, there's a bunch of iPad stuff that was meant to be for iOS 12 but they decided to park it and focus on bug fixing and efficiency, which is understandable given the bad press iOS has been getting recently. I guess we'll see in a year or so.
> 
> I find it rather funny that macOS is now very well formed, but Macs are all over the place, while iOS on iPads is a mess, but the hardware is incredible.



Apparently they’re changing how iOS works to a more substantial degree to resolve this and prepare for the MacOS alignment...


.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 11, 2018)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How the hell are they doing this without a fan?


TSMC is now ahead of intel in terms of chip process size. Down to 7nm, while intel are still have trouble getting 11nm to scale. Smaller chip features means more performance and lower power consumption.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2018)

Crispy said:


> TSMC is now ahead of intel in terms of chip process size. Down to 7nm, while intel are still have trouble getting 11nm to scale. Smaller chip features means more performance and lower power consumption.



Right. Yeah Intel are fucked.


.


----------



## Chz (Nov 12, 2018)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Right. Yeah Intel are fucked.
> .


As people have been saying for years. They say it about Apple, too. 

And don't take things like "7nm" as gospel. It's a marketing term. Intel is still behind because their 10nm process isn't fully operational. But Intel's 10nm is every bit as small and good as TSMC's 7nm. The iPad Pro is a very, very large heat sink. Something that laptops can't really do because of all the other bits that make them laptops (hinges, keyboards, multiple ports, etc.) pushes the weight up too much.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 15, 2019)

Apple May Be Working on 7th-Generation iPod Touch, 2019 iPhones Could Adopt USB-C



> _Mac Otakara_'s report also suggests that the next-generation iPhone coming in 2019 could potentially include a USB-C port. According to "those who are working on it," though, it has not reached a design reference step and whether or not the new iPhones will use USB-C over Lightning is not yet fully established.



Well, that would be one less thing for the Apple haters to cry about!


----------



## peterkro (Jan 15, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Apple May Be Working on 7th-Generation iPod Touch, 2019 iPhones Could Adopt USB-C
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that would be one less thing for the Apple haters to cry about!


Yes but,USB-C appears to be a dogs dinner already:

The woes of USB-C audio on mobile phones - and is the jack coming back?


----------



## Chz (Jan 15, 2019)

At least Apple put that weird haptic thing in the phono jack's place. Most other manufacturers have got rid of it (to copy Apple) and left _blank fucking space_ where the 3.5mm jack used to be. 

If it's all about space, how about we go back to Nokia's weird 2.5mm jack to save a bit? At least there's plenty of adaptors in a warehouse in Finland somewhere for that.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2019)

Some less than breathtaking updates. Stylus and headphone jack duly noted. 









> Apple just launched the new iPad Air — that’s right, the iPad Air series is back — and a brand new 5th-generation iPad mini.
> 
> Starting at $399 for the 64GB Wi-Fi version and $529 for the cellular model, the iPad mini comes in silver, space gray, and gold. You’ll have to add $150 extra if you want to go for the 256GB versions of each model.
> 
> The new iPad mini has the same 7.9-inch traditional iPad mini design, featuring a Touch ID sensor on the bottom and a 3.5mm headphone jack. Other specs include the A12 Bionic chip that also powers the 2018 iPhone XS, XS Max, XR, and iPad Pro, 8-megapixel rear camera, 7-megapixel FaceTime camera, stereo speakers, 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac, Bluetooth 5.0, eSIM support (on the cellular model), and a 19.1 watt-hour battery.





> Apple’s new iPad Air, meanwhile, looks like a repurposed 2017 10.5-inch iPad Pro model when it comes to design. It’s available in the same colors and storage options as the iPad mini, but prices start at $499 and $649 for the Wi-Fi and cellular models, respectively.
> 
> Just like the mini, the iPad Air has a Touch ID home button on the front, and a 3.5mm headphone jack, and it shares the same list of specs, A12 Bionic chip included. Of course the Air is much bigger than the mini, so the battery is significantly larger at 30.2 watt-hours.


Apple finally launched its new iPad Air and iPad mini – here’s everything you need to know


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 18, 2019)

Quite fancy a mini to replace my aging iPad4.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Quite fancy a mini to replace my aging iPad4.


Course you do!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 18, 2019)

editor said:


> Course you do!


Well, I need one for work, it’s not optional for me. Seeing as my current one has served well for over 6 years but no longer gets OS updates, a decent enough spec entry level model will do just fine.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, I need one for work, it’s not optional for me. Seeing as my current one has served well for over 6 years but no longer gets OS updates, a decent enough spec entry level model will do just fine.


Got a very handy headphone jack too!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 18, 2019)

editor said:


> Got a very handy headphone jack too!


Which, in all honesty, will never be used


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 20, 2019)

Full loaded iMac Pro anyone?


----------



## 2hats (Mar 20, 2019)

Educational price saves you £2K


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 20, 2019)

2hats said:


> Educational price saves you £2K


Really? I'll take 2 then!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 20, 2019)

Now I've seen the potential for folding phones. iPad minis look pretty dated by comparison.


----------



## editor (Mar 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Now I've seen the potential for folding phones. iPad minis look pretty dated by comparison.


I think iPhones look pretty dated now, even when they're being compared to modest mid range Android phones.


----------



## editor (Mar 20, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Full loaded iMac Pro anyone?
> 
> View attachment 165077


The whole thing is ridiculously overpriced (but no doubt a delight to own) but how can they possible justify the price of that RAM?


----------



## Chz (Mar 20, 2019)

editor said:


> I think iPhones look pretty dated now, even when they're being compared to modest mid range Android phones.


There is the argument that iPhones are considerably more powerful than any Android equivalent. 
But there's the counter argument that there's a limit to how much CPU/GPU oomph anyone can possibly use in a phone. Apple's only really opened a large performance gap at exactly the time that most phones have reached "good enough" performance and no-one cares about said gap. Makes a difference on the tablet side, mind you. An iPad is ridiculously more capable than any Android offering, but then Google doesn't even pretend to support tablets.


----------



## editor (Mar 20, 2019)

Chz said:


> There is the argument that iPhones are considerably more powerful than any Android equivalent.
> But there's the counter argument that there's a limit to how much CPU/GPU oomph anyone can possibly use in a phone.


Maybe they do but I'm not sure anyone's going to notice in real life use, just like the daft megapixel war that raged for several years. What on earth are you supposed to do with all that power? Open Facebook 0.001 sec faster?

Besides there's no shortage of videos showing Android phones outperforming iPhones on some tasks (and vice-versa of course).  Add in the price differential and it all gets a bit academic.


Chz said:


> Makes a difference on the tablet side, mind you. An iPad is ridiculously more capable than any Android offering, but then Google doesn't even pretend to support tablets.


You'll find that there's plenty of businesses using Android tablets and even sound engineers too. They're really not as bad as you're making out, and although iPads are definitely the best you can buy, a cheaper Android tablet can do the job just fine for millions of users.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 20, 2019)

Airpods 2 nothing much to shout about, wirelesss charging and slightly better performance. They're already a fantastically designed product so not a lot to improve on. Would be nice if they came in colours other than white though.


----------



## editor (Mar 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Airpods 2 nothing much to shout about, wirelesss charging and slightly better performance. They're already a fantastically designed product so not a lot to improve on. Would be nice if they came in colours other than white though.


Ah yes, but then you wouldn't be a walking advert for Apple.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 20, 2019)

The Huawei FreeBuds 2 Pro seem like a pretty good black alternative, which don't have those horrible rubber ended tips, and cheaper too.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 20, 2019)

editor said:


> I think iPhones look pretty dated now, even when they're being compared to modest mid range Android phones.



Genuine question. What makes a phone look dated?

I think what really sets apart mid range from premium phones is the use of OLED.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 20, 2019)

For me, there's a point to which a phone size device is just not worth the extra spend. That's currently somewhere between £500-600.

You can make a screen as bright and as OLED as you like, but it's only ever going to be the size of something you can hold in one hand until folding phones become a thing.


----------



## editor (Mar 20, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Genuine question. What makes a phone look dated?
> 
> I think what really sets apart mid range from premium phones is the use of OLED.


Its all subjective of course, but Samsung's curved screens look like they're a least a generation ahead, and the same goes for a underscreen fingerprint readers compared to a hefty chunky notch.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 20, 2019)

editor said:


> Its all subjective of course, but Samsung's curved screens look like they're a least a generation ahead, and the same goes for a underscreen fingerprint readers compared to a hefty chunky notch.



The Samsung curved screens are pretty cool looking. Wouldn't be in a rush to get another one though. Admittedly I'm clumsy, but it lasted less then a month on my S8 before I had a crack in the side.


----------



## editor (Mar 20, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> The Samsung curved screens are pretty cool looking. Wouldn't be in a rush to get another one though. Admittedly I'm clumsy, but it lasted less then a month on my S8 before I had a crack in the side.


If I ever get one, I'll have insurance in place!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 25, 2019)

Apple event on now. News+ announced so far. Waiting for the streaming thing announcement.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple event on now. News+ announced so far. Waiting for the streaming thing announcement.


If it's going to be Apple-only streaming it's going to struggle as they're very late to this particular party. There again, with all the billions they can throw around maybe they'll string together enough content to make it worthwhile.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 25, 2019)

They've reinvented the credit card. Cue the wooping for their official corporate partners Goldman Sachs and Mastercard. Yeah.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> They've reinvented the credit card. Cue multiple wooping for their official corporate partners Goldman Sachs and Mastercard.


 A fucking credit card. So you can buy more overpriced stuff from Apple but with a miniscule discount. 







THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!

Apple introduces its own credit card, the Apple Card


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2019)

'Scuse me while I yawn.





> But let’s talk about the Apple Card. After signing up, you control the Apple Card from the Wallet app. When you tap on the card, you can see your last transactions, how much you owe, how much money you spent on each category.
> 
> You can tap on a transaction and see the location in a tiny Apple Maps view. Every time you make an Apple Pay transaction, you get 2 percent in cash back. You don’t have to wait until the end of the month as your cash is credited every day. For Apple purchases, you get 3 percent back.
> 
> The Apple Card isn’t limited to a virtual card. You get a physical titanium card with a laser-etched name. There’s no card number, no CVV code, no expiration date and no signature on the card. You have to use the Wallet app to get that information. Physical transactions are eligible to 1 percent in daily cash.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2019)

Goldman Sachs. Nice. 





> Goldman has been accused of an assortment of misdeeds, including a general decline in ethical standards,[88][89] working with dictatorial regimes,[90] cozy relationships with the US federal government via a "revolving door" of former employees,[91] insider trading by some of its traders,[92] and driving up prices of commodities through futures speculation.[93]


Goldman Sachs - Wikipedia


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2019)

Flipboard with extra eye candy. $9.99/month. Here's the plinky plonky Coldplay-esque soundtracked video



Apple unveils its $9.99 per month news subscription service, Apple News+


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 25, 2019)

In fairness, that 2% cashback is actually better than what any of my current cards offer. And some of the features look alright.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 25, 2019)

OK, the TV stuff is pretty boring. And very US-centric. Apple TV+ ?

I can't even work out what it is. 

CBA to watch the rest.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 25, 2019)

Be interesting to see if the 'no late fees' makes it across the pond.


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2019)

Decent analysis: 



> “I think the strange optic here is that credit cards are not necessarily innovation in payments, even with better rates and loyalty,” says Rivka Gewirtz Little, a global research director at analyst firm IDC who specializes in payments. “So, to see a big tech firm, which hangs its hat on innovation, go such a traditional route – that’s what I think is a bit odd here. I’d like to see Apple get more innovative in transforming the way we pay.”...
> 
> And while Apple Pay may be a bold vision of the future, it’ll likely be years before contactless digital payments become truly mainstream in the US. In the meantime, Apple wants to sell you the benign and the boring — a credit card, a cable package, a magazine subscription — in hopes it can make its software and services as intrinsic a part of everyday life as its smartphone. Changing industries from the ground up is no longer Apple’s playbook, especially as it plays catch-up to companies like Netflix and Spotify.





> Apple’s strategy mirrors that of Amazon. The e-commerce giant started out selling genuinely new and best-in-class products like the Kindle and then the AI-powered Echo speaker. But Amazon has since used the consumer goodwill it garnered and the power it wields over its digital storefront to sell you everything from microwaves and wall clocks to white label clothing brands, home supplies, and AmazonBasics-branded AA batteries.
> 
> Apple is doing the same, using the iPhone as the ultimate gateway to transform every iOS and Mac user into a series of multiple recurring revenue streams from products made first and in some cases made better by other companies, be it Apple Music, Apple News, iCloud, or the new TV app. Apple is stopping short of making its own version of Prime, in which all of these services could be bundled together, but the company appears to be taking its cues from Amazon’s subscription approach to further lock iPhone owners into a broader ecosystem.


The Apple Card is a perfect example of Apple’s post-iPhone strategy


----------



## cybershot (Mar 26, 2019)

Did the guy who did the quotes above only get an internet account 3 years ago or something. He knows amazon started out selling books right?


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Did the guy who did the quotes above only get an internet account 3 years ago or something. He knows amazon started out selling books right?


But Apple aren't exactly 'starting out' are they? He's quite rightly comparing Amazon's now long-standing strategy with Apple's new direction.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 27, 2019)

I’d be glad to use the new Apple credit card. I liked the features they showcased, the 2% cashback on Apple Pay is actually pretty good compared to most cards, and MasterCard is accepted in a lot more places than my 1% cashback Amex is in the UK. Plus cashback is paid instantly rather than in one lump sum like other cards.

The colourful graphics on spending and interest look good and - though I am sceptical of the physical card being all wanky titanium (let’s see how they fare in the real world designed for plastic, I can see potential train station ticket machine collection refusals already) - I do like how they have no printed numbers or other security risk elements.

No international spending fees too. Bonus.

A good summary here.

3 reasons why I'm sold on the Apple Card to replace my 'dumb' credit card | TechRadar


----------



## cybershot (Mar 27, 2019)

I don’t get why people have this grand illusion that apple are great innovators. They never have been. They’ve never been first to market with anything. They always steal someone’s idea and then just do a better job of it. Not saying they will with either the card or the tv thing but they will have a bloody good attempt at it and you can’t deny with both their got their willy straight out and flopped it right on the table and threw Netflix off it with a swipe of rage. The question is will it be affordable. Where their smart speaker isn’t, and as such is a huge flop. 

Who better to bring the lights back up on and have Spielberg standing there. Recently hating on Netflix and telling the oscars to get rid of them. JJ, Oprah etc etc. You can’t make a bigger statement. At least in the US anyway. The ultimate game changer is if they can somehow muster what they are doing with news and magazines with the tv content too. Who doesn’t want to fuck off have multiple subscriptions to providers and have one flat provider with all content. With bulk sub discounts and oh. Not foergetting you new shiny apple card discount for doing it via apple platform.

As for the card. Is there a better more lighter way to make a ‘i’m A flash wanky bastard, if I’m not going to pay with my £1k+ phone, here. Have my my fucking titanium credit card instead with just an apple logo on it’

FWIW my starling bank, hate that name MasterCard that I use when I’m abroad already has nothing on the front of it, all the numbers are on the back, it looks kinda cool. The app is also great and everything is instant. Spend and it’s on your statement within seconds. I’d use it as my primary bank account if I wasn’t a sucker for switching current accounts via bribes.


----------



## pesh (Mar 27, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I don’t get why people have this grand illusion that apple are great innovators. They never have been. They’ve never been first to market with anything. They always steal someone’s idea and then just do a better job of it.







next year comes the festival on a private island


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 27, 2019)

Truly vomit enducing stuff.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 27, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Who better to bring the lights back up on and have Spielberg standing there. Recently hating on Netflix and telling the oscars to get rid of them. JJ, Oprah etc etc. You can’t make a bigger statement. At least in the US anyway. The ultimate game changer is if they can somehow muster what they are doing with news and magazines with the tv content too. Who doesn’t want to fuck off have multiple subscriptions to providers and have one flat provider with all content. With bulk sub discounts and oh. Not foergetting you new shiny apple card discount for doing it via apple platform.
> 
> As for the card. Is there a better more lighter way to make a ‘i’m A flash wanky bastard, if I’m not going to pay with my £1k+ phone, here. Have my my fucking titanium credit card instead with just an apple logo on it’
> 
> FWIW my starling bank, hate that name MasterCard that I use when I’m abroad already has nothing on the front of it, all the numbers are on the back, it looks kinda cool. The app is also great and everything is instant. Spend and it’s on your statement within seconds. I’d use it as my primary bank account if I wasn’t a sucker for switching current accounts via bribes.



I'm sceptical of the Apple TV+ service. Its all very well getting Oprah and Spielberg etc but it reeks a little of Apple Music being massively late to the party and sounds very US centric, middle aged and not particularly hip (no disrespect to Oprah but exciting she isn't).

The next year will be interesting in streaming service wars. Netflix and Amazon will dominate but look out for Disney and the WarnerMedia services. They have massive catalogues in their arsenal whereas Apple don't and are going to have to invest in original content and play massive catchup with Amazon and Netflix. 

Agree about the card being wanky and titanium. I wish they'd have just gone plastic and simple. Having no numbers though (even printed on the back) is an obviously better security measure and a good example of Apple improving something.


----------



## elbows (Mar 27, 2019)

Their TV will be largely shit because they are mostly prudes and control freaks, with naff ideas about homely and responsible content.


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2019)

elbows said:


> Their TV will be largely shit because they are mostly prudes and control freaks, with naff ideas about homely and responsible content.


Indeed. Let's not forget Apple's all-controlling, moralistic ways.

That said, I'm sure there'll be legions of iFans clamouring to use anything that comes with Apple's branding, but for the vast majority of the public who don't have an iPhone, I can't see the card or the streaming service getting mass traction in the UK, where millions are already happily locked into Amazon and Netflix (or both). Besides, the kids seem more than happy with Monzo.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 27, 2019)

elbows said:


> Their TV will be largely shit because they are mostly prudes and control freaks, with naff ideas about homely and responsible content.



Yep, agree with this. Spielberg and Oprah are right up their street really.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 20, 2019)

The apple credit card is released today in the US. Hopefully it won't be too long before it arrives here.

Apple Card launches today for all US customers


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> The apple credit card is released today in the US. Hopefully it won't be too long before it arrives here.
> 
> Apple Card launches today for all US customers


100% not for me



> The Good
> Beautiful and practical credit card app interface • 3 percent cash back on purchases from Apple • Gorgeous titanium Apple Card • No annual fees
> The Bad
> Other credit cards have better rewards • Lower APR with other credit cards • Titanium Apple Card only gives you 1 percent on non-Apple purchases





> The most disappointing thing about Apple Card is how little you get back using the physical card — only 1 percent cash back. I get that the whole point of Apple Card is to incentivize the use of the digital card. The titanium card is there almost as a backup — for places that don't accept Apple Pay — but 1 percent cash back is mediocre.
> 
> If Apple Card is your only credit card and you're paying for something at a place that doesn't accept  Apple Pay, then you have no choice but to swipe your titanium card. But, if you have another credit card with better rewards, then the physical Apple card becomes pretty useless.





> With Apple Card, you're basically running on Apple hamster wheel. If you've already consigned your life to Apple's walled garden, then by all means, Apple Card will definitely make your devices and services all the more integrated.
> 
> But if you don't want to essentially be chained to the iPhone, you should not get an Apple Card.




Apple Card review: Good luck ditching the iPhone after this


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 20, 2019)

editor said:


> 100% not for me
> 
> Apple Card review: Good luck ditching the iPhone after this



2% cashback on Apple pay and 1% on the physical card is actually way better than even the top performing non-annual fee credit cards currently in the UK - of which the top one I have (Amex Platinum) and that only returns 0.5% on purchases, and being Amex, it isn't accepted everywhere so I have to have a backup Mastercard.

So they can sign me right up. The APR being higher is only something to consider if you don't pay off your balance in full every month, which I always do.


----------



## Chz (Aug 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> 2% cashback on Apple pay and 1% on the physical card is actually way better than even the top performing non-annual fee credit cards currently in the UK - of which the top one I have (Amex Platinum) and that only returns 0.5% on purchases, and being Amex, it isn't accepted everywhere so I have to have a backup Mastercard.
> 
> So they can sign me right up. The APR being higher is only something to consider if you don't pay off your balance in full every month, which I always do.


Costco Amex is 1% on general, 2% on travel (includes TfL), 3% on "dining" (which includes pubs). Yes, you have to spend your "cash" back at Costco but that's not much of an ask.

It's a bit odd, as I expect the Apple card will be way more successful in the States despite the fact that cashback cards are both more common and pay higher rates than here.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> 2% cashback on Apple pay and 1% on the physical card is actually way better than even the top performing non-annual fee credit cards currently in the UK - of which the top one I have (Amex Platinum) and that only returns 0.5% on purchases, and being Amex, it isn't accepted everywhere so I have to have a backup Mastercard.
> 
> So they can sign me right up. The APR being higher is only something to consider if you don't pay off your balance in full every month, which I always do.


Hate to burst your bubble, but it's not definite that the UK version will have the same features as the US one:


> When it does launch, it may also have different features from the ones that are currently being advertised in the US. The 2% cashback on all purchases, for example, may be hard to maintain in the UK market, where a different card merchant fee regime is in place.


When is the Apple Card credit card coming to the UK? | Finder UK


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 20, 2019)

Chz said:


> Costco Amex is 1% on general, 2% on travel (includes TfL), 3% on "dining" (which includes pubs). Yes, you have to spend your "cash" back at Costco but that's not much of an ask.


Dining and pubs are the worst for not accepting Amex. So many non-chain restaurants and pubs just don't take Amex at all, so I end up using a mastercard with no cashback at all. Strange the Costco Amex isn't advertised in the comparison sites. I presume you have to be a Costco member? They all seem to exist on the fringes of London. I've never actually stepped inside one.



editor said:


> Hate to burst your bubble, but it's not definite that the UK version will have the same features as the US one:


It remains to be seen. Obvs if they don't have the same cashback rates as the US then that will suck massively but it will still be better than nothing at all I'm getting on my backup mastercard. Plus I like the clearer statements they are promising.


----------



## strung out (Aug 20, 2019)

There's no way the rewards in the EU will be anything like you get in the US. The EU have capped interchange fees for credit cards at 0.3%, which makes any significant rewards from VISA or Mastercard virtually non-existent. It would have to be a massive loss leader for Apple.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2019)

strung out said:


> There's no way the rewards in the EU will be anything like you get in the US. The EU have capped interchange fees for credit cards at 0.3%, which makes any significant rewards from VISA or Mastercard virtually non-existent. It would have to be a massive loss leader for Apple.


Yes, but it looks pretty....


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 20, 2019)

Just to be clear, I wouldn't get this card just because it's Apple. I'm far from being a fanboy and would rather be able to remove myself from their ecosystem come the time as seamlessly as possible. Also I think titanium physical card is showy and naff.

But, if the rates they're offering in the US are reflected in the UK then it would certainly become my primary card. Simply because it would treble my annual cashback rewards. If not, then I may still get it assuming there will be at least some cashback on offer, and because the statements look a lot nicer and clearer. I won't be throwing a showy-off titanium card down on the table when splitting the bill though.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Just to be clear, I wouldn't get this card just because it's Apple. I'm far from being a fanboy and would rather be able to remove myself from their ecosystem come the time as seamlessly as possible. Also I think titanium physical card is showy and naff.
> 
> But, if the rates they're offering in the US are reflected in the UK then it would certainly become my primary card. Simply because it would treble my annual cashback rewards. If not, then I may still get it assuming there will be at least some cashback on offer, and because the statements look a lot nicer and clearer. I won't be throwing a showy-off titanium card down on the table when splitting the bill though.


But the whole point of this card is to tie you in ever-tightly into their ecosystem.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 20, 2019)

editor said:


> But the whole point of this card is to tie you in ever-tightly into their ecosystem.



Sure but removing myself from it would only be as difficult as... just using a different card.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> But, if the rates they're offering in the US are reflected in the UK then it would certainly become my primary card


Where have you seen anything to support that assumption?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 20, 2019)

editor said:


> Where have you seen anything to support that assumption?



I haven't. I'm just saying _if_ they offer the same rates, I'm all on it. If not, then I may be on it.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 20, 2019)

The only reason I'd consider one is if they were beating the competition hands down, or to buy apple products with. I buy my phones seperately to my contract and usually take a credit card out to do that, and then pay it off.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 20, 2019)

sim667 said:


> The only reason I'd consider one is if they were beating the competition hands down, or to buy apple products with. I buy my phones seperately to my contract and usually take a credit card out to do that, and then pay it off.



I'm not averse to gaming credit card companies like this. I used to to the same in the US with the points guy just to get hotel stays and flight status upgrades. Last week I took out an Amazon credit card just to get £30 voucher. I'll probably never use it again.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm not averse to gaming credit card companies like this. I used to to the same in the US with the points guy just to get hotel stays and flight status upgrades. Last week I took out an Amazon credit card just to get £30 voucher. I'll probably never use it again.


I thought taking out credit cards and not using them damaged your credit history.

I'm currently trying to pay off my diving kit on my credit card, because I want more up to date diving kit and better djing stuff. I don't earn very well though, so what some people could pay off in a couple of months takes me like a year.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 20, 2019)

sim667 said:


> I thought taking out credit cards and not using them damaged your credit history.
> 
> I'm currently trying to pay off my diving kit on my credit card, because I want more up to date diving kit and better djing stuff. I don't earn very well though, so what some people could pay off in a couple of months takes me like a year.



Seemingly not because I always get approved, but I also keep them active by doing the occasional small purchase on different ones here and there.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 20, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Seemingly not because I always get approved, but I also keep them active by doing the occasional small purchase on different ones here and there.


I'd lose track.


----------



## Chz (Aug 20, 2019)

sim667 said:


> I'd lose track.


It's a lot of effort to save the most money. Some people relish the challenge, some people (myself included) place a higher value on their time. Neither is right or wrong, I gather the savings nuts really enjoy themselves. But it is a lot of time spent.


----------



## cybershot (Aug 20, 2019)

It certainly used to be true that having loads of cards put you at further risk of credit down the line because at some point you could just go out and blow thousands and have little intention of paying it back. I usually cancel them once it’s paid off and I’m done with them, but things may have changed.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 21, 2019)

Chz said:


> It's a lot of effort to save the most money. Some people relish the challenge, some people (myself included) place a higher value on their time. Neither is right or wrong, I gather the savings nuts really enjoy themselves. But it is a lot of time spent.



I'm a bit of both....... I don't spend lots of time doing it, but occasionally I'll set down, look at my ISA's (which I need to do, the rates are currently fucking pathetic) and where I can trim back on my outgoings.

I use chip which is cool though, it squirrels money away so I don't notice it, I'm currently using it to save up for a diving camera and have got just shy of £400 with it, and my monzo account rounds all my card transactions up to the nearest £1 an puts the skimmings in a savings pot.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 21, 2019)

There's a rumour that the new iPhones being launched next month will come with USB-C chargers. I for one welcome this, if true.

Second Rumor Claims 2019 iPhones Will Come With USB-C Chargers


----------



## cybershot (Aug 22, 2019)

Hmmm. 

Apple Card can be damaged by wallets and jeans


----------



## cybershot (Aug 22, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> There's a rumour that the new iPhones being launched next month will come with USB-C chargers. I for one welcome this, if true.
> 
> Second Rumor Claims 2019 iPhones Will Come With USB-C Chargers



I read that article as usb c charger. Meaning the usb end is usb c while the phone port is still lightning.


----------



## moochedit (Aug 23, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> Apple Card can be damaged by wallets and jeans



Oh ffs! 

Apple says clean Apple Card with a microfiber cloth, avoid contact with leather and denim


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2019)

Oh dear.

How bad is Catalina? It's almost Apple Maps bad: MacOS 10.15 pushes Cupertino's low bar for code quality lower still


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 12, 2019)

I've only encountered two problems with it so far:

The installer got stuck at the end. Powered off/on and it was fine
Music eats all your RAM and a lot more if you leave it running to the point where it'll crash the machine. Something to do with reading the album artwork. So I only run Music while I'm interacting with it 
Those are the most issues I've ever had with a MacOS upgrade though, so yeah, it's the worst.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 17, 2019)

Have to say both iOS 13 and macOS Catalina are easily the least polished software releases I’ve seen in ten years of using Apple products...


.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 17, 2019)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have to say both iOS 13 and macOS Catalina are easily the least polished software releases I’ve seen in ten years of using Apple products...
> 
> 
> .


iOS 13 has been cracking for me.

I've avoided catalina like the plague.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 17, 2019)

I’ve got it on my iPad only and safari is buggy as hell. Is 13.1.2 already like the fourth release of 13, and it’s still this bad. 
I’m seriously thinking next time I might sign up to the betas to actually report the issues because clearly the people doing so at the moment aren’t bothering or apple are screwing up introducing new bugs or just aren’t listening.


----------



## Winot (Oct 17, 2019)

sim667 said:


> iOS 13 has been cracking for me.
> 
> I've avoided catalina like the plague.



ditto


----------



## elbows (Oct 17, 2019)

Catalina has been good to me so far. In the UK the trash is now the bin


----------



## Supine (Oct 17, 2019)

13.1.3 is now available. Hopefully it'll sorry some bugs out.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2019)

Apple news 



> But the result is an alarming level of falsehood even by Trump standards. He claimed to have brought Apple manufacturing to the United States while standing in a factory that had already been building Apple products for six years, and one that had nearly lost the gig — not benefited — because of Trump’s trade policy.



Trump is lying about the ‘new’ ‘Apple’ factory

And 

Apple's Online Store Quietly Kills User Reviews and Ratings


----------



## cybershot (Jan 21, 2020)

Glowing review for the 16in MacBook Pro from the guardian.









						16in MacBook Pro review: bigger battery, new keyboard, new Apple
					

Apple shows it’s listening to pro users by producing a thicker, heavier and better machine




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2020)

Looks like the twats are targeting Apple more these days





__





						B-but it doesn't get viruses! Not so, Apple fanbois: Mac malware is growing faster than nasties going for Windows
					

So says Malwarebytes, anyway




					www.theregister.co.uk


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2020)

Looks like Apple are going to be releasing some over ear headphones, and some kind of Tile tracker called "AirTags" at their March event along with the iPhone SE2 (iPhone 9)- no 5G until later this year. All speculation of course.









						Is Apple Going Rogue With All-New 5G iPhone Design?
					

Apple's iPhone 12 will be unlike any rival 2020 smartphone thanks to this radical design decision...




					www.forbes.com
				




_



			02/16 Update: a new report from acclaimed industry insider Ming-Chi Kuo reveals some disappointing news about Apple’s plans for 5G technology inside the iPhone 12. In a report picked up by
		
Click to expand...

_


> _9to5Mac__, Apple has scrapped its ambitious plans to include as many as six power amplifiers for 5G networking. Kuo says this has been reduced to just one or two amplifiers which means the end of 2x2 MIMO uplink support and slower 5G performance. I suspect Apple's gamble here is that buyers will not notice a difference in real world scenarios given the even basic 5G implementation in a smartphone can result in dramatic speed increases over 4G. And, sad as this seems on paper, Apple is probably right.
> 
> 02/17 Update: the klaxon for Apple's first new 2020 iPhone has sounded today with __reports__ that the hotly anticipated iPhone SE2 / iPhone 9 will launch on March 31 with a launch to customers just 4 days later on April 3. The fast turnaround is expected given the iPhone SE's sudden arrival on March 31 2016. Apple also has a recent history of holding events in March (25th in 2019 and 27th in 2018). If the report is correct, don't expect the new iPhone to be the only new hardware on display either with next-gen iPad Pro models, updated MacBooks with scissor switch keyboards, Apple's first over-ear headphones and Tile-inspired trackers called AirTags also tipped to feature. 2020 is going to be big year Apple, so strap in._


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Looks like Apple are going to be releasing some over ear headphones, and some kind of Tile tracker called "AirTags" at their March event along with the iPhone SE2 (iPhone 9)- no 5G until later this year. All speculation of course.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So that radical  'stunning Apple Design' (based on some half arsed 'industry leaks') is_ this: _


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2020)

editor said:


> So that radical  'stunning Apple Design' (based on some half arsed 'industry leaks') is_ this: _



Yeh, can't you see, it looks a bit flatter on the sides compared to the 11. So it's a totally radical new look.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Yeh, can't you see, it looks a bit flatter on the sides compared to the 11. So it's a totally radical new look.


I missed that. Now THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING.


----------



## editor (Apr 18, 2020)

Apple sure know how to take the piss









> Apple is known for releasing some pretty pricey products, but it might have gone too far with the asking price for the Mac Pro Wheels Kit – which offers four wheels for the new Mac Pro for a staggering $699 (around £560, AU$1,100).
> 
> That’s almost twice the price of the newly-announced iPhone SE update, which is on sale for just $399 / £419 / AU$749. For the price of nearly two of its latest smartphones, Apple is offering Mac Pro owners a kit with four wheels, a 1/4-inch to 4mm hex bit tool and an installation guide. That doesn’t exactly scream ‘value for money’.
> 
> Apple describes the wheels as “custom-designed stainless steel and rubber wheels [that] make it easy to move your Mac Pro around”.





> We previously reported that Apple was going to ask for $400 for wheels for the Mac Pro, and that these ultra-expensive wheels don’t even come with locks to stop the PC from rolling away, but it seems Apple thought $400 was too cheap, and is asking for even more money.





> If you want to raise your Mac Pro off the ground or desk, but don’t want wheels, then Apple is also selling a Mac Pro Feet Kit. This is for people who bought a Mac Pro with wheels installed and have changed their mind.
> 
> Think adding feet – something that comes as standard for most PCs – will be cheap? Think again, as Apple is asking for $299 (around £240, AU$470) for the kit.


Fool/money/parted etc etc.

😂









						Apple is trying to sell Mac Pro wheels for almost twice the price of a new iPhone SE
					

$699 for some wheels?




					www.techradar.com


----------



## nick (May 19, 2020)

So..Catalina.
Is it now considered ok to install, or should I continue to avoid?

Will it give me anything exciting and new (apart from renaming the trash) or is it just a way to pull 32 bit support

(currently on Mojave 10.14.6 on a MacBook Pro (Retina, Mid 2012)


----------



## redsquirrel (May 19, 2020)

I've updated on one of my machines but not (yet) on the other. 

I don't know whether it's worth it, certainly I'd check all your software will work first, I had a couple of issues, for example Inkscape is still in development for Catalina.


----------



## editor (Aug 12, 2020)

Apple being utter fucking arseholes again.



> When Natalie Monson started her food blog 11 years ago, she didn't expect to end up embroiled in a fight with the world's most valuable company.
> 
> But the US small business owner is now battling Apple for the right to use a pear in the logo on her recipe app.
> 
> ...


















						'Bullying' Apple fights couple over pear logo
					

The owners of the Prepear recipe app are speaking out after Apple tried to block their pear logo.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## oryx (Aug 12, 2020)

editor said:


> Apple being utter fucking arseholes again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Saw this earlier.

The two logos, apart from being pictures of fruit, are nothing like each other!

Another case of corporate bullying.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 2, 2020)

Looks like it's on for 5G in the next round of iPhones.









						Apple Preparing 75 Million 5G iPhones Alongside New Watches and iPad
					

Apple Inc. has asked suppliers to build at least 75 million 5G iPhones for later this year, roughly in line with last year’s launch, in a sign that demand for the company’s most important product is holding up in the midst of the global pandemic and recession.




					www.bloomberg.com
				




If that's the main pull then I'm not that fussed for the moment. Nice as it would be to have 5G, I haven't yet found a situation where all that increased speed is going to be much use. For context I'm currently running an entire house with 10 connected devices on a single 4G sim and haven't once felt the need for any more speed beyond 4G/LTE


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Looks like it's on for 5G in the next round of iPhones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah,I just don’t see much point either. I can stream HD content to my phone quite happily. Who needs anything more than that?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 2, 2020)

Well here's something to get excited about. I'm sure editor is already planning his Apple store camp out to be first in the queue come release day 



> All of the new smartphones will have updated designs with *squared *edges


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Well here's something to get excited about. I'm sure editor is already planning his Apple store camp out to be first in the queue come release day


THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2020)

Apple Event tonight in case anyone wants to add to their calendar. (6pm UK time)

Rumours include:
Apple Watch version 6
New iPad Air
Apple One (new bundled subscription package)
Air Tags
Airpods Studio
Maybe new iPhones with 5G, maybe not.









						What to Expect at the Apple Event: New Apple Watch Series 6, iPad Air, No iPhone 12
					

Last Minute Updates  Some last minute leaks have come in ahead of Tuesday's event, confirming which devices we can expect to see Apple unveil,...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2020)

Also, I'm quite interested in this new spacial audio function they've just updated the airpods firmware with. It sounds very clever.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2020)

I’m _this_ close to ordering a pair of EarPod Pro’s. They really are very good.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’m _this_ close to ordering a pair of EarPod Pro’s. They really are very good.



Same. With my current first gen airpods in their twilight years and added noise cancellation, transparency mode and now spacial audio, I may even have my arm twisted that I could live with those rubbery tipped ends (which generally I hate).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Same. With my current first gen airpods in their twilight years and added noise cancellation, transparency mode and now spacial audio, I may even have my arm twisted that I could live with those rubbery tipped ends (which generally I hate).


The main thing stopping me is a nagging doubt I’d lose one


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The main thing stopping me is a nagging doubt I’d lose one



The case is so pocketable though. It's now become one of those things I feel my pockets for instinctively everytime I go out. Phone, keys, airpods case. Sorted.

I often don't even take a wallet out anymore, because I just apple pay everything. But yeah, expensive to misplace.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 15, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The main thing stopping me is a nagging doubt I’d lose one



AirPod Studios? 









						AirPods Max: Should you Buy? Everything We Know
					

The AirPods Max are Apple-branded high-end over-ear headphones with active noise cancellation, spatial audio, and adaptive EQ. Priced at $549.




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## mauvais (Sep 15, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Apparently I have won some Airpods Pro, Airpod Pros, Airspods Pros, whatever, in some corporate competition. Unusually I did enter this competition so it is possible.
> 
> I haven't really got any use for them, especially as I'm not an iPhone user. If they ever turn up, is there somewhere sensible to sell them? I'm considering offering them up here, at work etc and donating half the proceeds to MSF or something.


These arrived today. White, unopened box, model MWP22ZM/A, despatched from Syncreon. If someone (beesonthewhatnow ? ) offers me somewhere near retail I'll do the above and give half to MSF.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The main thing stopping me is a nagging doubt I’d lose one


Same here, although it's less a nagging doubt and more an absolute certainty.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 15, 2020)

The Airpod Pros are great imo, I use them pretty much everyday, but they are not on par with overhead earphones for noise cancellation. So depends if that is your killer feature or not.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2020)

cybershot said:


> The Airpod Pros are great imo, I use them pretty much everyday, but they are not on par with overhead earphones for noise cancellation. So depends if that is your killer feature or not.



I really want noise cancellation when I'm on a plane, mainly because it would make it easier to sleep and block out all the annoying announcements (not that I'm flying all that much right now, but I did last week, and was reminded how useful this would be). Otherwise it would probably mostly be a nice bonus but not essential. I'm way more interested in transparency mode and the new spacial mode. And the portability of these vs over ears would probably swing it.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 15, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The main thing stopping me is a nagging doubt I’d lose one





skyscraper101 said:


> I really want noise cancellation when I'm on a plane


Have seen someone desperately trying to search a 787 in flight after falling asleep and having one drop out their ear...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2020)

2hats said:


> Have seen someone desperately trying to search a 787 in flight after falling asleep and having one drop out their ear...



When your airpod falls out of your ear
And the passengers are all leaving through the rear
That's the breaks, that's the breaks...etc


----------



## cybershot (Sep 15, 2020)

Well from expierence of trains I’ll tell you AirPod pros won’t fully cancel all loud sounds around you, especially the noise from a idling diesel on the platform opposite, but will do enough for the ticket inspector to make you jump when they have to tap you in the shoulder from behind. 😄

You’d probably be better of with overheads but it really depends on what you’ll use them on the most and I guess planes won’t be they often!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 16, 2020)

Interesting event last night. I have to say I prefer the new format without the wooping audience in the theatre, and its very slick looking (if at times predictably cheesy).

Nothing revolutionary announced but a decent refresh on the ipad/ipad air, and Apple watch 6 and new Apple watch SE. I may end up getting the SE after holding out on joining the smart watch brigade until now.









						Apple Events
					

Watch the latest Apple keynote stream, and check out the archive of special event announcements for our products and services.



					www.apple.com


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

iOS14 comes out today.

Wearers of Air Pods, have you any idea how ludicrous you look?


----------



## danski (Sep 16, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> When your airpod falls out of your ear
> And the passengers are all leaving through the rear
> That's the breaks, that's the breaks...etc


Hmmm, might be fun to bring that song up to date...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Wearers of Air Pods, have you any idea how ludicrous you look?


I just don’t get this - How does removing a wire suddenly make them look any different to other headphones


----------



## cybershot (Sep 16, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Interesting event last night. I have to say I prefer the new format without the wooping audience in the theatre, and its very slick looking (if at times predictably cheesy).
> 
> Nothing revolutionary announced but a decent refresh on the ipad/ipad air, and Apple watch 6 and new Apple watch SE. I may end up getting the SE after holding out on joining the smart watch brigade until now.
> 
> ...



The watch SE surprised me, If I didn't already have the series 4 it would have tempted me. Problem now is, that now I have things like ECG, in the future do I want a model that doesn't do it. Regardless of how little I use that particular feature, as, it could be useful.



Bahnhof Strasse said:


> iOS14 comes out today.
> 
> Wearers of Air Pods, have you any idea how ludicrous you look?



Oooh, widgets, but I won't be diving right in.

I look cool as fuck in my airpods I'll have you know. Even cooler because they are the pros and I get to look down on those with just normal ones.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I just don’t get this - How does removing a wire suddenly make them look any different to other headphones



You live in Birmingham and think you look good in lycra, which invalidates any opinion you may have on style issues.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

cybershot said:


> I look cool as fuck in my airpods I'll have you know. Even cooler because they are the pros and I get to look down on those with just normal ones.



Paired with an Apple watch yeah? Just to let everyone know how down with tech you are...


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Paired with an Apple watch yeah? Just to let everyone know how down with tech you are...



It’s almost like those people who drive Audis isn’t it?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 16, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> It’s almost like those people who drive Audis isn’t it?



Audi drivers are not tech savvy, but they are far superior to non-Audi drivers, that's just a known fact.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> You live in Birmingham and think you look good in lycra, which invalidates any opinion you may have on style issues.


I’ll have you know I look _fabulous_ in lycra, darling.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 16, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Paired with an Apple watch yeah? Just to let everyone know how down with tech you are...



Fuck yeah.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 21, 2020)

I keep eyeing up the new iPad. Broaching the subject with my other half she was reluctant for me to get one as I’d trade in an iPad she gave gave me from her old job to do so (she also got an iPad herself from her old job), but said she was ok if I got her an Apple Pencil to use on my iPad.

£84 fucking quid for a fake pencil.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2020)

sim667 said:


> I keep eyeing up the new iPad. Broaching the subject with my other half she was reluctant for me to get one as I’d trade in an iPad she gave gave me from her old job to do so (she also got an iPad herself from her old job), but said she was ok if I got her an Apple Pencil to use on my iPad.
> 
> £84 fucking quid for a fake pencil.









£119 if you want the_ latest_ fake pencil!









						Buy Apple Pencil (2nd Generation)
					

Apple Pencil (2nd generation) lets you write, draw and change tools by double-tapping. Buy now at apple.com.



					www.apple.com


----------



## cybershot (Oct 11, 2020)

Long article but a great read and was really good to see how Apple deal with reported security vulnerabilities. Nearly all fixed within 1-2 days, some 4 hours and paying out without issue in their bug bounty program. Which seems a great incentive to get hackers to just report the issue and get a nice payout for doing so rather than taking advantage of it.









						We Hacked Apple for 3 Months: Here’s What We Found | Sam Curry
					






					samcurry.net


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2020)

HomePod Mini:














						Apple Announces HomePod mini With Spherical Design and S5 Chip for $99
					

Apple today announced the HomePod mini with a new spherical design and the S5 chip at its "Hi, Speed" event.    The device is the first...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2020)

cybershot said:


> HomePod Mini:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dust magnet.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 27, 2020)

Looks like new airpods are on the horizon









						Apple Plans Smaller AirPods Pro, Revamped Entry-Level Model
					

Apple Inc. is planning updates to its AirPods earbuds next year, seeking to capitalize on the success of a product that has become an important source of growth.




					www.bloomberg.com


----------



## Sunray (Nov 6, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Looks like new airpods are on the horizon
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As I pointed out in the other thread, revamped landfill.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 13, 2020)

Anyone ever dropped an Airpod Pro into a cup of tea and know if it survived? Asking for a friend.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 13, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Anyone ever dropped an Airpod Pro into a cup of tea and know if it survived? Asking for a friend.



They survived.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 13, 2020)

Those long rumoured airpods studio, and air tags seemed conspicuously missing from the 'one more thing' event the other day.

I did like the look of the new macbook air though. My 2013 model is still holding out strong but it gets decidedly sluggish from time to time if doing anything slightly intensive.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 14, 2020)

Anyone updated to Big Sur yet?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 14, 2020)

redsquirrel said:


> Anyone updated to Big Sur yet?


Yeah, early 2016 Macbook, upgraded last night. Same as the Catalina upgrade, it didn’t complete cleanly; sat with progress bar at about 95% for several hours while I left it. In the end I powered it off and on and it started up fine.
All fine so far, control center on the menu bar is handy, notifications are counter-intuitively accessed by clicking on the time/date on the menu bar.
Mail client has changed - icons etc are in slightly different places and font size seems different.

It does seem to wake from sleep/screensaver quicker and the new dynamic Big Sur wallpaper is lovely.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 14, 2020)

Cheers Lazy Llama. Have you re-backed up with Time Machine to take advantage of the supposed increased speed?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 14, 2020)

redsquirrel said:


> Cheers Lazy Llama. Have you re-backed up with Time Machine to take advantage of the supposed increased speed?


Not yet. I’ll leave it a while as I don’t have another backup disk hanging around so would prefer to keep options open.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 14, 2020)

Oh god it looks horrible. I don't want my Mac to look like a flipping iPhone. 
I thought I just accidentally installed it, but I think I just did some updates to the last OS, as I am only now seeing it wants to install big sur and some safari update.


----------



## peterkro (Nov 14, 2020)

redsquirrel said:


> Cheers Lazy Llama. Have you re-backed up with Time Machine to take advantage of the supposed increased speed?


I reformatted a backup disc to APFS and ran a new time machine backup 380GBs took about an hour and a half (external USB3 drive), that's very fast. Normal hourly/daily backups are faster than old backups but not by as much as first big backup.

I've been using Big Sur for several beta releases and like it much better than Catalina.


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 14, 2020)

Ta. Might have to think about doing the same.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 14, 2020)

I'm on it now as well. Seems fine, and there are some functional improvements re: menu bar widgets, haven't really noticed much else yet.

I was wondering why Safari was behaving like arse beforehand, then I realised that there was a new OS release on the way and Safari is always fucked just before a new release.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 14, 2020)

cybershot said:


> HomePod Mini:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now they're out I've seen reviews saying these have sound almost as good as the full-size HomePod, and if that's true they're a complete steal if you use Apple Music.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 15, 2020)

I've got far too much dodgy software to update and see if it works


----------



## tommers (Nov 17, 2020)

I assume everybody has seen this?





__





						Jeffrey Paul: Your Computer Isn't Yours
					





					sneak.berlin


----------



## nick (Nov 17, 2020)

tommers said:


> I assume everybody has seen this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


An ideal time to buy the iTinfoilHat - only £499.99, or £550 for the RED version


----------



## elbows (Nov 17, 2020)

I've got an M1 mac mini coming today, in great part because I am hoping the GPU is just about good enough for my purposes. Because for years I have been suffering from a complete contradiction between the amount of energy the high-end GPUs I've been developing for consume, and my views about energy this century. So I'm about to find out to what extent I can run a 3D fluid sim on this chip. Benchmarks look promising but it will all come down to how my own stuff runs.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2020)

tommers said:


> I assume everybody has seen this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


An awful lot of paranoia and what ifs there.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2020)

tommers said:


> I assume everybody has seen this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Blimey: 


> This means that Apple knows when you’re at home. When you’re at work. What apps you open there, and how often. They know when you open Premiere over at a friend’s house on their Wi-Fi, and they know when you open Tor Browser in a hotel on a trip to another city.





> Since October of 2012, Apple is a partner in the US military intelligence community’s PRISM spying program, which grants the US federal police and military unfettered access to this data without a warrant, any time they ask for it. In the first half of 2019 they did this over 18,000 times, and another 17,500+ times in the second half of 2019.







__





						Jeffrey Paul: Your Computer Isn't Yours
					





					sneak.berlin


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> An awful lot of paranoia and what ifs there.


Really. You're dismissing this research out of hand as 'paranoia' just because it criticises your beloved Apple? Wow.









						Privacy - Government Information Requests - Apple (US)
					





					www.apple.com


----------



## Crispy (Nov 17, 2020)

Stonking performance on that new M1. Beats all intel macs in single-threaded performance, _even when emulating intel. _All with 150% battery life.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2020)

editor said:


> Really. You're dismissing this research out of hand as 'paranoia' just because it criticises your beloved Apple? Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I’m saying the article has a whiff of paranoia about it.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 17, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, I’m saying the article has a whiff of paranoia about it.


If they're genuinely out to get you (and for a small number of people, they genuinely are) it's not paranoia


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, I’m saying the article has a whiff of paranoia about it.


So it's now gone from 'an awful lot of paranoia' to just a 'whiff of paranoia.'

You should be congratulating the author, not trying to slag him off with mental health slurs.


----------



## Chz (Nov 17, 2020)

elbows said:


> I've got an M1 mac mini coming today, in great part because I am hoping the GPU is just about good enough for my purposes. Because for years I have been suffering from a complete contradiction between the amount of energy the high-end GPUs I've been developing for consume, and my views about energy this century. So I'm about to find out to what extent I can run a 3D fluid sim on this chip. Benchmarks look promising but it will all come down to how my own stuff runs.


It's about equivalent to bottom-end discrete solutions, from what I've seen. So very good for integrated, but that's a pretty low bar to set. Bear in mind the M1 machines can't use external GPUs.
Whether that's good enough is up to you, of course.


----------



## nick (Nov 17, 2020)

whether paranoid, or valid concern...

Isn't this the kind of thing that you phone is already doing - so effectively it is aligning the laptop with what already happens on mobile?

Not saying I think it is a good thing mind


----------



## tommers (Nov 17, 2020)

nick said:


> whether paranoid, or valid concern...
> 
> Isn't this the kind of thing that you phone is already doing - so effectively it is aligning the laptop with what already happens on mobile?
> 
> Not saying I think it is a good thing mind



Yes. For at least the last two years.


----------



## elbows (Nov 18, 2020)

Chz said:


> It's about equivalent to bottom-end discrete solutions, from what I've seen. So very good for integrated, but that's a pretty low bar to set. Bear in mind the M1 machines can't use external GPUs.
> Whether that's good enough is up to you, of course.



Its living up to my expectations so far


----------



## sim667 (Nov 18, 2020)

If you use either macOS or windows, everything you do is relayed back. I'm not sure why that comes as such a big surprise to people. I highly suspect most of the linux distros are the same too.


----------



## magneze (Nov 18, 2020)

sim667 said:


> If you use either macOS or windows, everything you do is relayed back. I'm not sure why that comes as such a big surprise to people. I highly suspect most of the linux distros are the same too.


Bollocks


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 18, 2020)

Tbh I've given up on the "OSes phoning home" issue as it's been the case since XP and nothing happens. I've been whinging pointlessly about it since 2003 or whatever. The only difference in this case is that it will be harder to stop with the new chips but who cares if it's everywhere and nobody stops it as it is now?

I have a Little Snitch licence somewhere but I just stopped putting it on new machines.


----------



## editor (Nov 19, 2020)

Loose change for Apple 



> *Apple will pay $113m (£85m) to settle allegations that it slowed down older iPhones.*
> Thirty-three US states claimed that Apple had done this to drive users into buying new devices.
> Millions of people were affected when the models of iPhone 6 and 7 and SE were slowed down in 2016 in a scandal that was dubbed batterygate.
> Apple declined to comment, however, it has previously said the phones were slowed to preserve ageing battery life.
> ...











						Apple to pay $113m to settle iPhone 'batterygate'
					

The lawsuit argued the iPhone-maker slowed down device performance to make users buy newer models.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 19, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Tbh I've given up on the "OSes phoning home" issue as it's been the case since XP and nothing happens. I've been whinging pointlessly about it since 2003 or whatever. The only difference in this case is that it will be harder to stop with the new chips but who cares if it's everywhere and nobody stops it as it is now?
> 
> I have a Little Snitch licence somewhere but I just stopped putting it on new machines.



Isn't it overblown? So they get to know what software you are using. Whenever I go to the tool hire shop they get to know what tool I'm hiring too, and I bet they don't encrypt it.


----------



## editor (Nov 19, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Isn't it overblown? So they get to know what software you are using. Whenever I go to the tool hire shop they get to know what tool I'm hiring too, and I bet they don't encrypt it.


A more accurate comparison would be that the tool hire shop would know whose house you're going and what work they're doing, even though it's none of their fucking business.


----------



## elbows (Nov 19, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Tbh I've given up on the "OSes phoning home" issue as it's been the case since XP and nothing happens. I've been whinging pointlessly about it since 2003 or whatever. The only difference in this case is that it will be harder to stop with the new chips but who cares if it's everywhere and nobody stops it as it is now?
> 
> I have a Little Snitch licence somewhere but I just stopped putting it on new machines.



Plus I enjoy all the anti-tracking stuff built into Safari these days, and am happy to pay a premium to a company that's business model includes charging high prices for hardware rather than making their money by selling my data to advertisers.


(and not 30 days worth either since I've only had this Mac a couple of days)


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Nov 19, 2020)

editor said:


> A more accurate comparison would be that the tool hire shop would know whose house you're going and what work they're doing, even though it's none of their fucking business.


ah, but the tool hire shop will be able to offer you an enhanced user experience and next time you go in, they will have just the tool you need ready on the counter for you 

Whatever you do, there are limits on achievable privacy on the internet. For some reason I trust Apple a little more than Google, Facebook and Amazon, hell, I even trust Safari with my banking passwords. As Elbows says, I am happy they don't have their fingers in the advertising revenue pie. I also like the convenience of the integrated functionality. I pay  extra for it, I know that. I've been suckered into their ecosystem, but I rather like it....Cute little iMac in 1999, the "cloud based" stuff since .mac in about 2001, iPhone in 2007 (and I could have stuck with a Palm Treo).

For me the effort to achieve enhanced privacy isn't worth it for be additional peace of mind I'd achieve. Other folk will have a different view on the balance of costs and benefits.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 22, 2020)

magneze said:


> Bollocks



Thanks for your input


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> ah, but the tool hire shop will be able to offer you an enhanced user experience and next time you go in, they will have just the tool you need ready on the counter for you
> 
> Whatever you do, there are limits on achievable privacy on the internet. For some reason I trust Apple a little more than Google, Facebook and Amazon, hell, I even trust Safari with my banking passwords. As Elbows says, I am happy they don't have their fingers in the advertising revenue pie. I also like the convenience of the integrated functionality. I pay  extra for it, I know that. I've been suckered into their ecosystem, but I rather like it....Cute little iMac in 1999, the "cloud based" stuff since .mac in about 2001, iPhone in 2007 (and I could have stuck with a Palm Treo).
> 
> For me the effort to achieve enhanced privacy isn't worth it for be additional peace of mind I'd achieve. Other folk will have a different view on the balance of costs and benefits.


Most people don't have the luxury of being able to afford may Apple products. Not sure what 'additional peace of mind' I'm missing out on, to be honest.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 22, 2020)

editor said:


> Most people don't have the luxury of being able to afford may Apple products. Not sure what 'additional peace of mind' I'm missing out on, to be honest.



I'm not sure most of their products are that much more expensive than the alternatives when you average the purchase cost over their actual usable life.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 22, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> I'm not sure most of their products are that much more expensive than the alternatives when you average the purchase cost over their actual usable life.


They’re not, simple as that.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They’re not, simple as that.


The fanboy speaks and thus ends the discussion. We could compare the cost implications of, say, a Chromebook with a Macbook for an average user's needs, but I know it'll soon descend into nitpicking about 'specialist'  apps and niche applications and other such irrelevant tosh that most people don't give a fuck about.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 22, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They’re not, simple as that.


Except most Apple fanboys simply must replace their phone whenever a newer model is released, so cost vs life analysis is kinda pointless.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 22, 2020)

editor said:


> The fanboy speaks and thus ends the discussion. We could compare the cost implications of, say, a Chromebook with a Macbook for an average user's needs, but I know it'll soon descend into nitpicking about 'specialist'  apps and niche applications and other such irrelevant tosh that most people don't give a fuck about.


_sigh_
Yes, lots of users are better off with cheap Chromebooks, they’re great. But, also for a lot of users they have limitations. So compare like with like. Top end Samsung vs iPhone, top end PC laptop against a Mac etc etc. Factor in life of product and years of OS support/upgrades. The difference is minimal.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 22, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Except most Apple fanboys simply must replace their phone whenever a newer model is released, so cost vs life analysis is kinda pointless.


Well, this “fanboy” is using a 5 year old phone and a 7 year old MacBook. Both running the latest OS quite happily.  🤷‍♂️


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 22, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

> _sigh_
> Yes, lots of users are better off with cheap Chromebooks, they’re great. But, also for a lot of users they have limitations. So compare like with like. Top end Samsung vs iPhone, top end PC laptop against a Mac etc etc. Factor in life of product and years of OS support/upgrades. The difference is minimal.



Yep. Chromebook v Macbook. That's a valid comparison right there!

Not.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 22, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Yep. Chromebook v Macbook. That's a valid comparison right there!
> 
> Not.



A better comparison would be the iPhone 12 Pro Max 128GB at £1099 vs the Galaxy S20 Ultra 128GB 5G at £1199.

Over five years the iPhone would be £18 a month, whereas I'd be dubious about the S20 lasting that long, despite being more expensive. Samsung have recently stated they will commit to three years worth of Android upgrades, which apparently is wonderfully generous of them. That would make the Galaxy £33 a month until it needed repalcing. Almost twice the price of the iPhone.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Nov 22, 2020)

editor said:


> Not sure what 'additional peace of mind' I'm missing out on, to be honest.


What I mean is, you are much more knowledgable about computers than me. You can use that knowledge to customise settings and adjust your system to achieve the privacy levels that give you peace of mind....I'm lazy and largely delegate privacy stuff to Apple. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with the default Google settings if they provided my phone OS, browser, email etc.

You pays your money and you takes your choice. I'm not trying to convert anyone. 

(an "obsolete" 8 year old MacBook that can't run the new OS but OS10 will be supported for a few more years, a 2 year old MacBook Pro that can't either because Parallels/Windows10 takes up too much space (ironically to run Explorer10 for work ), and a 2 yo iPhone8 that does have the latest OS and has a few more years left in it)


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 22, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> A better comparisons would be the iPhone 12 Pro Max 128GB at £1099 vs the Galaxy S20 Ultra 128GB 5G at £1199
> 
> Over five years the iPhone would be £18 a month, whereas I'd be dubious about the S20 lasting that long, despite being more expensive. Samsung have recently stated they will commit to three years worth of Android upgrades, which apparently is wonderfully generous of them. That would make the Galaxy £33 a month until it needed repalcing. Almost twice the price of the iPhone.



Yep. You'll also get a lot more for your old iPhone when you sell it or trade it in than you would for a Samsung or 3 year old Huawei genocide-phone.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> A better comparison would be the iPhone 12 Pro Max 128GB at £1099 vs the Galaxy S20 Ultra 128GB 5G at £1199.
> 
> Over five years the iPhone would be £18 a month, whereas I'd be dubious about the S20 lasting that long, despite being more expensive. Samsung have recently stated they will commit to three years worth of Android upgrades, which apparently is wonderfully generous of them. That would make the Galaxy £33 a month until it needed repalcing. Almost twice the price of the iPhone.


Love the way you're picking out the highest possible end phones.  Like's that what most typical users buy.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> _sigh_
> Yes, lots of users are better off with cheap Chromebooks, they’re great. But, also for a lot of users they have limitations. So compare like with like. Top end Samsung vs iPhone, top end PC laptop against a Mac etc etc. Factor in life of product and years of OS support/upgrades. The difference is minimal.


Why are you always electing to compare 'top end' with 'top end'? Most average users have no need for 'top end' anything, which is exactly my point, but it's the only way you can stretch your argument to cover your claim that Apple products are somehow great value. If you can't afford them they're not good value,  and there's plenty of equally capable machines that will do everything most average users need to do for far less. End of.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> What I mean is, you are much more knowledgable about computers than me. You can use that knowledge to customise settings and adjust your system to achieve the privacy levels that give you peace of mind....I'm lazy and largely delegate privacy stuff to Apple. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with the default Google settings if they provided my phone OS, browser, email etc.
> 
> You pays your money and you takes your choice. I'm not trying to convert anyone.
> 
> (an "obsolete" 8 year old MacBook that can't run the new OS but OS10 will be supported for a few more years, a 2 year old MacBook Pro that can't either because Parallels/Windows10 takes up too much space (ironically to run Explorer10 for work ), and a 2 yo iPhone8 that does have the latest OS and has a few more years left in it)


So how do you feel Google personally comprises your privacy to the point it justifies you spending loads more on a product? How do the privacy breaches manifest themselves in everyday life?


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 22, 2020)

editor said:


> Love the way you're picking out the highest possible end phones.  Like's that what most typical users buy.



Because that's a good comparison. Unlike some manufacturers, Apple don't make a massive range of products across all price points when considering only the upfront purchase cost. However when you consider the lifetime of the phone they're much better value than their equivalently priced competition. 

Let's take their cheapest phone the SE at £399. How do you think this compares to the Galaxy A51 5G at £379 and which works out much cheaper over five years?


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Because that's a good comparison. Unlike some manufacturers, Apple don't make a massive range of products across all price points when considering only the upfront purchase cost. However when you consider the lifetime of the phone they're much better value than their equivalently priced competition.
> 
> Let's take their cheapest phone the SE at £399. How do you think this compares to the Galaxy A51 5G at £379 and which works out much cheaper over five years?


Why not compare with the Pixel 4a, which costs £80 quid less and matches it in every department - and quite probably exceeds it in others too.


			https://store.google.com/gb/product/pixel_4a
		


Actually, this review confirms it. It's miles better than the more expensive SE:



> The Google Pixel 4a took its sweet time getting to market, but if you look at the sheer value proposition, it's really hard to find a better phone for the money. For $349, it offers a bigger display than the iPhone SE, a sleeker design, faster charging and a Night Mode for its camera that outshines Apple. Plus you get double the storage for $50 less than the iPhone SE.











						Google Pixel 4a vs iPhone SE: Which phone wins?
					

The Pixel 4a and iPhone SE are two of the best cheap phones yet. Here’s how they stack up.




					www.tomsguide.com
				





> It has a flagship-quality camera, a great screen, and appealing design, and has enough power to get the job done. Apple's compact option, while certainly a compelling and wallet-friendlier alternative to the iPhone 11 line, doesn't necessarily convince us to spend an additional 20% over the Pixel 4a.











						Google Pixel 4a vs Apple iPhone SE: Which is best? | Stuff
					

Which smaller, cheaper flagship alternative is the one worth wielding?




					www.stuff.tv
				




etc etc


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 22, 2020)

editor said:


> Why not compare with the Pixel 4a, which costs £80 quid less and matches it in every department - and quite probably exceeds it in others too.
> 
> 
> https://store.google.com/gb/product/pixel_4a
> ...



You need to compare the cost over the lifetime of the phone. Not everyone wants to, or can afford to upgrade every two or three years.

Hows the first gen 2016 Pixel phone doing? edit: oops, seems like it had its final security and OS updates in 2019.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 22, 2020)

Compare the Pixel to the iPhone 6S, assuming you replaced the phone when they stopped security updates:

Pixel: $649, Nov 2016 - Dec 2019 = $17.50 per month

iPhone6S: $649, Oct 2015 - Nov 2020 = £10.63 per month and still getting cheaper, still working fine


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> You need to compare the cost over the lifetime of the phone. Not everyone wants to, or can afford to upgrade every two or three years.
> 
> Hows the first gen 2016 Pixel phone doing? edit: oops, seems like it had its final security and OS updates in 2019.


OK. Then you spend the £80 more and get a worse camera and a worse rated phone. Enjoy.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 22, 2020)

editor said:


> OK. Then you spend the £80 more and get a worse camera and a worse rated phone. Enjoy.



For a phone that’s obsolete after three years. Works out a lot more expensive and is a waste of money and a waste of resources.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 22, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> For a phone that’s obsolete after three years. Works out a lot more expensive and is a waste of money and a waste of resources.


No no. It's not about value any more. It's about camera quality.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 22, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> _sigh_
> Yes, lots of users are better off with cheap Chromebooks, they’re great. But, also for a lot of users they have limitations. So compare like with like. Top end Samsung vs iPhone, top end PC laptop against a Mac etc etc. Factor in life of product and years of OS support/upgrades. The difference is minimal.



My three year old HP Spectre laptop is now almost unusable, so I need to get a new one, yet another £1500 or so. Three years is all I ever get out of laptops, Mac users seem to get a lot more than that. The main thing I use a laptop for doesn’t work on iOS, although there is talk that it may go web based and if so I will get a Mac. But for now a new Samsung has been ordered (fwiw the HP is the crappest laptop I have ever owned).


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Nov 22, 2020)

editor said:


> So how do you feel Google personally comprises your privacy to the point it justifies you spending loads more on a product? How do the privacy breaches manifest themselves in everyday life?


It’s all subjective. I don’t pretend to really understand what Google does with all the cookie tracking data, search histories and the contents of Gmail messages.
I’m happy with my stuff.
I didn’t have to mug an old lady to pay for it.
Stop causing trouble on our Apple fanboy thread


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> It’s all subjective. I don’t pretend to really understand what Google does with all the cookie tracking data, search histories and the contents of Gmail messages.
> I’m happy with my stuff.
> I didn’t have to mug an old lady to pay for it.
> Stop causing trouble on our Apple fanboy thread


So it's more about a 'feeling' than any actual evidence of your privacy being compromised? OK.


----------



## alex_ (Nov 22, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> My three year old HP Spectre laptop is now almost unusable, so I need to get a new one, yet another £1500 or so. Three years is all I ever get out of laptops, Mac users seem to get a lot more than that. The main thing I use a laptop for doesn’t work on iOS, although there is talk that it may go web based and if so I will get a Mac. But for now a new Samsung has been ordered (fwiw the HP is the crappest laptop I have ever owned).



what on earth have you done to it - that’s a top of the range laptop !


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 22, 2020)

alex_ said:


> what on earth have you done to it - that’s a top of the range laptop !



Top of the range my arse! Close the lid and 50% of the time it doesn’t sleep, but decides to get really hot and use all the battery. Which is my biggest complaint.

On the day I got the thing I loaded the programme I need it for, it came up tiny and loads of IT people couldn’t fix it. Eventually someone in our New York office did fix it. It has recently gone wonky and they needed to reload it, the Home Screen for the programme has gone tiny again, though the programme works. However every time it goes to sleep I can’t use the main programme, I have to kill it and reload it, takes around five minutes and as I need the thing to use when out and about that five minutes is a pain in the arse, especially as when I respond to a customer they come back 15 minutes later with a follow up question that requires me to restart the poxy thing...


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## Spymaster (Nov 22, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Top of the range my arse! Close the lid and 50% of the time it doesn’t sleep, but decides to get really hot and use all the battery. Which is my biggest complaint.
> 
> On the day I got the thing I loaded the programme I need it for, it came up tiny and loads of IT people couldn’t fix it. Eventually someone in our New York office did fix it. It has recently gone wonky and they needed to reload it, the Home Screen for the programme has gone tiny again, though the programme works. However every time it goes to sleep I can’t use the main programme, I have to kill it and reload it, takes around five minutes and as I need the thing to use when out and about that five minutes is a pain in the arse, especially as when I respond to a customer they come back 15 minutes later with a follow up question that requires me to restart the poxy thing...


 Sounds like you got the runt of the litter. Which Spectre is it? Mine’s an X360 and it’s by far and away the best bit of tech I’ve ever owned. Coming up to 2 years old and still going perfectly.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 22, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> It’s all subjective. I don’t pretend to really understand what Google does with all the cookie tracking data, search histories and the contents of Gmail messages.


You don't need to know precisely (and you can't, anyway, it's not like Google tells you). Google, as the owner of uh _Doubleclick_ as well as a host of other properties based around behaviour data, has a business interest in tracking people as much as possible. Apple just doesn't, not because they are "nice" or anything, just that's not their business model. If anything their business model is more based around user privacy, and they have the market clout to be able to put in technical blocks on that basis. The ad industry hates them, for instance, but they can't do anything as long as iPhones are so common.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 22, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Sounds like you got the runt of the litter. Which Spectre is it? Mine’s an X360 and it’s by far and away the best bit of tech I’ve ever owned. Coming up to 2 years old and still going perfectly.



Dunno, was £1599 in August 2017. Seriously disliked it from day one.

Have ordered a Galaxy Book Flex 15”, hopefully will be happier with that.


----------



## peterkro (Nov 22, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You don't need to know precisely (and you can't, anyway, it's not like Google tells you). Google, as the owner of uh _Doubleclick_ as well as a host of other properties based around behaviour data, has a business interest in tracking people as much as possible. Apple just doesn't, not because they are "nice" or anything, just that's not their business model. If anything their business model is more based around user privacy, and they have the market clout to be able to put in technical blocks on that basis. The ad industry hates them, for instance, but they can't do anything as long as iPhones are so common.


I've just had a look into Little Snitch network monitor and there are 49 connections to various Google servers ( that's using Safari so they are all connected via using Google search) I could block them all but as I'm running AdGuard as well I never see the ads delivered by their nefarious tracking.


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## pseudonarcissus (Nov 22, 2020)

editor said:


> So it's more about a 'feeling' than any actual evidence of your privacy being compromised? OK.


Maybe it’s more than a hunch
FridgeMagnet has been more eloquent than I would have been about the business model.
I intentionally used the phrase “peace of mind” as a large part of privacy concerns are subjective. I’m an angel with nothing to hide anyway. 
I respect you advocacy for low cost tech. I’m not criticising your choices.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 22, 2020)

So, any new products to talk about or just comparing cock sizes?


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2020)

cybershot said:


> So, any new products to talk about or just comparing cock sizes?



I've got the M1 Mac mini and its top remains cool and so cannot be used to warm my hands like the intel versions could. It has made me happy so far.


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You don't need to know precisely (and you can't, anyway, it's not like Google tells you). Google, as the owner of uh _Doubleclick_ as well as a host of other properties based around behaviour data, has a business interest in tracking people as much as possible. Apple just doesn't, not because they are "nice" or anything, just that's not their business model. If anything their business model is more based around user privacy, and they have the market clout to be able to put in technical blocks on that basis. The ad industry hates them, for instance, but they can't do anything as long as iPhones are so common.



Yes spot on. I hate adverts, I hate being the product that is sold, I hate how easily Google abandon things they lose interest in, and I refuse to buy any Android hardware since they screwed me with not enough update cycles on some nexus device I owned long ago. And I've long been prepared to pay a premium for non-windows computer experiences since compared to my computing experience before and after, the x86 PC & Windows dominance era sucked some of the joy out of things this that I really want to enjoy as a certain sort of geek. Made worse by the fact I had to do a variety of crap IT jobs that included support of windows machines during an era that was not their finest from a reliability point of view. I even worked in a small computer shop for a few years, back when such shops were still just about a thing. It was so grim!

Apple do plenty of things I dont like but so far they have just about managed to avoid pissing me off to the extent I would desperately look elsewhere (well it happened once, nearly a decade ago now, and lead to a few unhappy android years for me), but thats probably partly because I know I won't be satisfied with what I can get elsewhere. How far they like to take the propaganda and the control freakery may be what does it for me in the end, but for now I can tolerate it and it helps that if I ever get round to developing stuff, their App Store cut is now reduced to 15% as long as my turnover is below a million, which I'm reasonably confident it always will be.


----------



## On Fire (Nov 23, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Compare the Pixel to the iPhone 6S, assuming you replaced the phone when they stopped security updates:
> 
> Pixel: $649, Nov 2016 - Dec 2019 = $17.50 per month
> 
> iPhone6S: $649, Oct 2015 - Nov 2020 = £10.63 per month and still getting cheaper, still working fine



You are lucky that your iPhone6S is still physically working. Or have you replaced bits of it (e.g. the battery, speaker, buttons, screen)? I know it still gets iOS updates, but it is a long time for phone to last physically.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 23, 2020)

On Fire said:


> You are lucky that your iPhone6S is still physically working. Or have you replaced bits of it (e.g. the battery, speaker, buttons, screen)? I know it still gets iOS updates, but it is a long time for phone to last physically.



The battery might need replacing but certainly none of the other things if you take good care of it. I've never cracked a phone screen in my life.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 23, 2020)

I crank along on a mac pro that originally dates from 2009.  I didn't buy it new - I bought it used/refurbished, as I have done with any mac I've ever owned, as any sensible person would. It's had various components upgraded since then, but nothing significant in the last 4 or 5 years, and it continues to work perfectly. Not sure how many owners its been through since its birth 11 years ago, but in the meantime the people who bang on about macs being overpriced will have wasted their money on several laptops that will have lasted about 3 years each, and made their contribution to toxic landfill in the process.


----------



## Chz (Nov 23, 2020)

A Mac Pro is a professional desktop unit. It *should* do all that you say it has, otherwise there's little point to buying a desktop these days. I've got parts in my (Windows and Linux) desktop that are still running since they went in in 2006. I don't consider that exceptional.

I don't compare it to laptops, and neither should you.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 23, 2020)

Chz said:


> A Mac Pro is a professional desktop unit. It *should* do all that you say it has, otherwise there's little point to buying a desktop these days. I've got parts in my (Windows and Linux) desktop that are still running since they went in in 2006. I don't consider that exceptional.
> 
> I don't compare it to laptops, and neither should you.


That's true, I shouldn't have said laptops.

I reckon that the same would apply to non-mac desktops too, unless they were ones at a similar original price point to the mac pro.


----------



## editor (Nov 23, 2020)

Chz said:


> A Mac Pro is a professional desktop unit. It *should* do all that you say it has, otherwise there's little point to buying a desktop these days. I've got parts in my (Windows and Linux) desktop that are still running since they went in in 2006. I don't consider that exceptional.
> 
> I don't compare it to laptops, and neither should you.


There's no doubting Macbooks hold their (larger) value better than Windows ones, but for longevity, Thinkpads are incredible machines, with many allowing users to easily swap-out essential components. Try doing that on A MacBook at home! And, of course, Windows desktops let change every single component as the technology improves, and therefore could arguably count as being far more environmentally friendly for upgraders.


----------



## Chz (Nov 23, 2020)

Actually, I find the current trend is to make Windows laptops more Mac-like. Soldered memory, soldered disk, etc. are becoming common. I was quite surprised when I bought Mrs. C's Lenovo two years back to find it had room for an M.2 drive (installed) and an empty SATA slot for another one. Definitely not typical! Even then it only had the one slot for RAM, so I had to replace the 4GB stick rather than add to it as I'd done with her previous IdeaPad.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 23, 2020)

On Fire said:


> You are lucky that your iPhone6S is still physically working. Or have you replaced bits of it (e.g. the battery, speaker, buttons, screen)? I know it still gets iOS updates, but it is a long time for phone to last physically.



Ridiculous statment (Unless you are, of course not used to the build quality of Apple products). My Mum has my old iPhone 6 and that's working fine, the only part that's been replaced is the battery at a cost of £45.

The 6 doesn't get the latest iOS but it does still get security updates. 6+ years old.


----------



## On Fire (Nov 23, 2020)

I had a iPhone 6S. It did initially last quite well, but then the battery went, and the replacement battery did not seem much better, the speaker became distorted and was replaced, and eventually the power button went and I recycled the phone.


----------



## On Fire (Nov 23, 2020)

Amazing software support with such long iOS updates though.


----------



## editor (Nov 23, 2020)

From the Washington Post: 


*Apple is lobbying against a bill aimed at stopping forced labor in China*
*Apple wants to water down key provisions of the bill, which would hold U.S. companies accountable for using Uighur forced labor, according to two congressional staffers*



Apple lobbyists are trying to weaken a bill aimed at preventing forced labor in China, according to two congressional staffers familiar with the matter, highlighting the clash between its business imperatives and its official stance on human rights.

The Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act would require U.S. companies to guarantee they do not use imprisoned or coerced workers from the predominantly Muslim region of Xinjiang, where academic researchers estimate the Chinese government has placed more than 1 million people into internment camps. Apple is heavily dependent on Chinese manufacturing, and human rights reports have identified instances in which alleged forced Uighur labor has been used in Apple’s supply chain.

The staffers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the talks with the company took place in private meetings, said Apple was one of many U.S. companies that oppose the bill as it’s written. They declined to disclose details on the specific provisions Apple was trying to knock down or change because they feared providing that knowledge would identify them to Apple. But they both characterized Apple’s effort as an attempt to water down the bill.


“What Apple would like is we all just sit and talk and not have any real consequences,” said Cathy Feingold, director of the international department for the AFL-CIO, which has supported the bill. “They’re shocked because it’s the first time where there could be some actual effective enforceability.”
China is building vast new detention centers for Muslims in Xinjiang

Apple spokesperson Josh Rosenstock said the company “is dedicated to ensuring that everyone in our supply chain is treated with dignity and respect. We abhor forced labor and support the goals of the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act. We share the committee’s goal of eradicating forced labor and strengthening U.S. law, and we will continue working with them to achieve that.” He said the company earlier this year “conducted a detailed investigation with our suppliers in China and found no evidence of forced labor on Apple production lines, and we are continuing to monitor this closely.”

Apple’s lobbying firm, Fierce Government Relations, disclosed that it was lobbying on the bill on behalf of Apple in a disclosure form that was first reported by the Information. However, the form did not say whether Apple was for or against the bill or whether it wanted to modify it in any way. Lobbying disclosure forms do not require that information. Fierce referred The Washington Post to Apple’s public relations team.
AD


Apple CEO Tim Cook has said publicly that Apple does not tolerate forced labor in its supply chain. “Forced labor is abhorrent,” Cook said in a congressional hearing in July. “We would not tolerate it in Apple,” he said, adding that Apple would “terminate a supplier relationship if it were found.”

The new bill would make it more difficult for U.S. companies to ignore abuses taking place in China and give U.S. authorities more power to enforce the law. One provision in the bill requires public companies to certify to the Securities and Exchange Commission that their products are not made using forced labor from Xinjiang. If companies are found to have used forced labor from the region, they could be prosecuted for securities violations.

While U.S. law already prevents companies from importing goods that were made using forced labor, the law is seldom enforced, and it’s difficult to prove U.S. companies know about the use of forced labor. 


The Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act passed 406 to 3 in the House in September. People involved in the legislation said the apparel industry was caught off guard by how quickly it passed without much lobbying.

Now that the bill, sponsored by Rep. Jim McGovern (D-Mass.) and Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), is in front of the U.S. Senate, corporations have made more of a concerted effort to shape it, in part to blunt some of its sharper provisions, according to the two congressional staffers. Some companies have lobbied to have their names removed from the bill, these people say, because it calls out specific brands like Patagonia, Coca-Cola and Costco, for allegedly using forced labor from the region. It does not name Apple.

Patagonia, Coca-Cola and Costco didn’t respond to requests for comment.

The bill is primarily focused on textiles and other low-tech industries. For instance, Xinjiang’s sugar has made its way into Coca-Cola and the tomatoes have been used in Heinz ketchup, according to human rights reports.


Michael Mullen, senior vice president for Kraft Heinz, said in a written statement that the company’s suppliers are audited by a third party and that the audits have not identified “any issues.” He said if “issues related to inappropriate labor practices are discovered, we will take immediate action.” Mullen declined to name the auditing firm. Most firms have stopped auditing in Xinjiang because of limitations placed by the Chinese government.

Complying with the new bill could be costly to companies, especially in the textile industry, where cotton gets woven into garments around the world, making it difficult and expensive to trace. The Xinjiang region is known as a center for cotton production, and the apparel industry has earned most of the scrutiny for using textiles produced by allegedly forced labor in the region.

The SEC portion of the bill echoes a provision in the Dodd-Frank Act that requires companies to notify the government if their products contain conflict minerals from Congo. That provision of the Dodd-Frank Act has created headaches for companies that import gold. Companies are concerned that the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act could create similar problems, according to the lawmakers.


Because China has transferred Uighur Muslims out of Xinjiang to work in other parts of the country, human rights advocates say it may be difficult for any U.S. company operating in China to ensure it isn’t benefiting, even indirectly, from forced labor.

Xinjiang, which borders Pakistan and Afghanistan, was conquered by China in the 1700s, and the Turkic Muslims who live there have long fought against Chinese rule. But in recent years, the Chinese government has been cracking down on Muslims, aided by advanced surveillance technology, such as artificial intelligence and facial recognition, a digital iron grip that has overwhelmed the population.

With an estimated 1 million to 2 million people placed in camps, human rights groups have called the situation in Xinjiang a cultural genocide. Some of those who “graduate” from the camps by renouncing Islam and learning to speak fluent Mandarin have been moved to factories in Xinjiang and surrounding regions. 


China’s government has disputed the characterization of the program as “camps,” saying they were vocational training centers to reform minor criminals. Under heavy international pressure, officials declared the end of the program in December 2019, saying all students had successfully graduated. Some of the centers have been confirmed to be vacated, though some overseas Uighurs have said relatives remain detained or missing.

But China has thwarted efforts to observe human rights conditions in Xinjiang. Diplomats and foreign journalists who have visited the region almost universally report being repeatedly detained by authorities and blocked from approaching areas where camps are located. Recent satellite photos show the camps growing, not shrinking.
Uighurs reflect on 2009 violence that set off Chinese crackdown

While it’s unknown how much electronics manufacturing occurs in the region, some human rights groups believe there are plants that make electronics components in Xinjiang. And private companies, which act as brokers for Xinjiang laborers, have arranged for workers to be transferred from concentration camps to electronics factories outside of Xinjiang, according to human rights reports.


----------



## editor (Nov 23, 2020)

Part Two:



A March report from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute identified four alleged instances in which labor from the Xinjiang region has been connected to Apple’s supply chain. The report alleges that the workers were likely to have been forced or coerced, but it did not offer proof confirming the work terms and conditions.

Apple products include thousands of components that are made by suppliers all around the world. The company has a supplier code of conduct and says it assessed 1,142 suppliers in 49 countries in 2019, ensuring that good labor conditions are upheld. Apple publishes an annual progress report documenting the results. “Workplace rights are human rights. We require suppliers to provide fair working hours, a safe work site, and an environment free from discrimination,” the company says on its website.

The Australian report alleges that in 2017, the Chinese government transferred between 1,000 and 2,000 Uighurs to work at a factory owned by O-Film, which helps make selfie cameras for Apple’s iPhone. Apple’s Cook publicized his visit to an O-Film factory in December 2017, posing in a photo in front of a microscope on the factory floor, wearing a blue clean room jumpsuit. “Getting a closer look at the remarkable, precision work that goes into manufacturing the selfie cameras for iPhone 8 and iPhone X at O-Film,” Cook wrote on the Chinese social networking site Weibo.


O-Film also supplies other American companies like Dell, HP, Amazon and General Motors, according to the report. (Amazon chief executive and founder Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post.) Dell spokesperson Lauren Lee said an O-Film subsidiary is a supplier for the company but that Dell does not do business with the O-Film factory named in the report. 

Amazon acknowledged the report and denounced forced labor in a statement on its website. General Motors, in its most recent sustainability report, said it investigated the allegations and ended its relationship with the supplier.

A Chinese newspaper article from May 2017 covered the transfer of Uighur labor to the O-Film factory. The article put a positive spin on the story, referring to the alleged forced laborers as “urban and rural surplus laborers” who had “gone out of their homes to work in the mainland to make money, and create a happy life with their hard-working hands.”


The Australian report, citing a local government document from September 2019, alleges that 560 Xinjiang laborers were transferred to the Henan province and that some of those workers ended up in Foxconn’s Zhengzhou factory, otherwise known as “iPhone City,” where half of Apple’s flagship products are assembled.

The report also cites a 2018 speech by a Chinese government official announcing the transfer of workers from Xinjiang to the Hubei Yihong factory, which the report alleges is the parent company of an Apple supplier. According to the report, the factory’s website said it supplied GoerTek, which makes Apple’s AirPods. In the speech, the official referred to the labor transfers as a “green channel” and ordered workers to be “grateful” to the Chinese Communist Party.

“Xinjiang migrant workers must regard the factory as their home and strive to be outstanding employees,” the official said. The factory also allegedly supplies other American electronics makers like Facebook’s Oculus, Microsoft and Google, according to the report. GoerTek didn’t respond to a request for comment. 

Frank Shaw, Microsoft’s vice president of corporate communications, said the company “determined that O-Film and Hubei Yihong are not suppliers for our devices nor for our cloud hardware businesses.” He added that Microsoft investigated alleged labor violations at Foxconn but found no wrongdoing. “We do not tolerate forced labor in our supply chain,” he said.


The Australian report also cites a 2018 article from Xinjiang Economic News, which reported that 544 Uighur students were transferred to a subsidiary of Highbroad Advanced Material, a maker of LCD and OLED components. The report alleges that Highbroad is a supplier of BOE Technology Group, a maker of OLED screens for Apple, according to Apple’s supplier list. BOE didn’t respond to a request for comment.

In August, the Tech Transparency Project uncovered shipping records showing Apple was importing cotton T-shirts from a company in Xinjiang that Congress imposed sanctions on for its alleged use of forced labor. Apple, at the time, said it does not currently import shirts from the region.

Apple has been implicated in several alleged labor abuses over the years.

“I’m not entirely surprised that Apple would be involved in trying to water down legislation that concerns protection of human rights in China,” said Maya Wang, a China researcher at Human Rights Watch. Nevertheless, she called Apple’s lobbying effort “unconscionable.”


----------



## strung out (Nov 23, 2020)




----------



## Spymaster (Nov 23, 2020)

Plus of course, anyone who supports Huawei in any way shape or form, has _*absolute no right whatsoever *_to talk about conditions in fucking China.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 23, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Plus of course, anyone who supports Huawei in any way shape or form, has _*absolute no right whatsoever *_to talk about conditions in fucking China.



or Samsung. Or any other smart phone manufacturer I guess.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 23, 2020)

cybershot said:


> or Samsung. Or any other smart phone manufacturer I guess.


They'll all have issues but Huawei, with their wholesale theft of IP, support of the Chinese regime, their current genocidal practices, human rights abuses, unapologetic torture and murder of dissidents etc etc ... are head and shoulders above even the very worst of the others. But they make cheap smartphones with decent cameras so they get a pass from a few on here. It's Apple who are the real devils incarnate remember.


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2020)

Well, this is classy









						Apple's security chief charged with bribery
					

The company's head of security is charged with planning to swap iPads for gun permits



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 24, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> They'll all have issues but Huawei, with their wholesale theft of IP, support of the Chinese regime, their current genocidal practices, human rights abuses, unapologetic torture and murder of dissidents etc etc ... are head and shoulders above even the very worst of the others. But they make cheap smartphones with decent cameras so they get a pass from a few on here. It's Apple who are the real devils incarnate remember.



Good cameras though.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 24, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Good cameras though.


Yep. That's what counts.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 29, 2020)

Bit concerned at this on my mac tbh:

```
14:55 $ php -v
WARNING: PHP is not recommended\nPHP is included in macOS for compatibility with legacy software.\nFuture versions of macOS will not include PHP.
PHP 7.3.22-(to be removed in future macOS) (cli) (built: Oct 30 2020 00:19:11) ( NTS )
Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group
Zend Engine v3.3.22, Copyright (c) 1998-2018 Zend Technologies
```
(and yes, those "\n"s really are there, they aren't newlines )

I mean obviously I can install PHP if it goes as default - might actually be better to do so, more control over versions etc - but it's a poor sign, and means that I can't distribute PHP scripts to Mac users and expect them to be able to just run them.

At least they're not getting rid of ruby, which would mean that brew stopped working.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 29, 2020)

> Scripting language runtimes such as Python, Ruby, and Perl are included in macOS for compatibility with legacy software. In future versions of macOS, scripting language runtimes won’t be available by default, and may require you to install an additional package. If your software depends on scripting languages, it’s recommended that you bundle the runtime within the app. (49764202)







__





						Apple Developer Documentation
					






					developer.apple.com


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 29, 2020)

Lazy Llama said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's going to be a PITA if ruby goes, given that brew (the main CLI package manager for macOS) is written in ruby. No deprecation warning as yet though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 30, 2020)

Just heard an ad for these Apple online retailers. Their brand name needs a rethink:




__





						Apple UK, Apple Premium Reseller | Select
					

UK's Leading Apple Premium Reseller. Stores nationwide. Shop all the latest Apple products & services with Select today!




					stormfront.co.uk


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 8, 2020)

Check it. Apple have just reinvented the headphone with the all new Airpods Max!

Key features include:

- *Adaptive EQ:* AirPods Max use Adaptive EQ to adjust the sound to the fit and seal of the ear cushions by measuring the sound signal delivered to a user and adjusting the low and mid-frequencies in real time — bringing rich audio that captures every detail.

- *Active Noise Cancellation:* AirPods Max deliver immersive sound through Active Noise Cancellation so users can focus on what they are listening to. Each ear cup features three outward-facing microphones to detect environmental noise, while one microphone inside the ear cup monitors the sound reaching the listener's ear. Using computational audio, noise cancellation continuously adapts to the headphone fit and movement in real time.

- *Transparency Mode:* With AirPods Max, users can switch to Transparency mode to simultaneously listen to music while hearing the environment around them — ensuring everything, including a user's own voice, sounds natural while audio plays perfectly. Switching between Active Noise Cancellation and Transparency mode can be done with a single press using the noise control button.

- *Spatial Audio:* AirPods Max use spatial audio with dynamic head tracking to place sounds virtually anywhere in a space — delivering an immersive, theaterlike experience for content recorded in 5.1, 7.1, and Dolby Atmos. Using the gyroscope and accelerometer in AirPods Max and iPhone or iPad, spatial audio tracks the motion of a user's head as well as the device, compares the motion data, then remaps the sound field so it stays anchored to the device, even as the user's head moves.









						AirPods Max
					

AirPods Max combine high-fidelity audio with industry-leading Active Noise Cancellation, Adaptive EQ,  spatial audio, and free engraving.



					www.apple.com
				












*A snip at just £549


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Check it. Apple have just reinvented the headphone with the all new Airpods Max!
> 
> Key features include:
> 
> ...


Over half a grand for a pair of headphones.  With one fuck of an ugly case to boot. No doubt the fanboys will be lining up to buy them/defend them.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 8, 2020)

Yeah. I won't be getting any at that price. Not keen on the handbag design either. I'll stick with airpods regular.


----------



## nick (Dec 8, 2020)

That's not a case - its a holster for hipsters


----------



## ska invita (Dec 8, 2020)

And they're white lol


----------



## magneze (Dec 8, 2020)

Half the battery life of Sony/Bose for twice the price. 🤔


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 8, 2020)

magneze said:


> Half the battery life of Sony/Bose for twice the price. 🤔


Half as good at twice the price... But it has an Apple on it!


----------



## On Fire (Dec 9, 2020)

Bit expensive for my liking, but doubtlessly they will last well and be supported by firmware updates.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 9, 2020)

Just viewed to see the price rage!  Wasn't disappointed.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2020)

I'm just buying two Homepod Minis and strapping them to my ears. Half the price and I bet the bass is better.


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm just buying two Homepod Minis and strapping them to my ears. Half the price and I bet the bass is better.


You'll have to buy a white handbag to round off the look.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 9, 2020)

editor said:


> You'll have to buy a white handbag to round off the look.


Or a bra, cheaper and a similar look.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2020)

I'm still perfectly happy with my 19 quid bluetooth headphones tbh.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 10, 2020)

Why Is Apple’s M1 Chip So Fast?
					

Real world experience with the new M1 Macs have started ticking in. They are fast. Real fast. But why? What is the magic?




					debugger.medium.com


----------



## Chz (Dec 10, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Why Is Apple’s M1 Chip So Fast?
> 
> 
> Real world experience with the new M1 Macs have started ticking in. They are fast. Real fast. But why? What is the magic?
> ...


A lot of flat-out incorrect information there. The author seems reasonably clued-up, but there are a couple of howlers, particularly in regards to x86 instruction decoding.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 11, 2020)

> Still, Matthew seems impressed by the quality of the build — which you’d certainly hope to be, since the AirPods Max cost $550, but he says, “Judging from materials execution alone, the AirPod Max feels like it should be _more_ expensive if anything.”



More expensive!









						This is not a review of Apple's new AirPods Max headphones
					

I’ve had Apple’s AirPods Max headphones for less than 24 hours, so there is no way I would attempt to write a review of any sort. But I do have some of those oh so popular these days “first impressions” to share. Mostly on build quality, but I’ll throw a few first listen thoughts at […]




					techcrunch.com


----------



## Sunray (Dec 12, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Bit concerned at this on my mac tbh:
> 
> ```
> 14:55 $ php -v
> ...



PHP is terrible, always puzzled why do people still use it?   Use node.js? JS is a better language given the low bar of PHP.  Is node.js installed by default on macs?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 12, 2020)

Sunray said:


> PHP is terrible, always puzzled why do people still use it?   Use node.js? JS is a better language given the low bar of PHP.  Is node.js installed by default on macs?


I think people still use PHP because most web hosting services are set up for it, whereas far fewer support Node.js. Also, I wouldn't have a clue where to start with Node.js, so my vote is for PHP


----------



## Sunray (Dec 12, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> I think people still use PHP because most web hosting services are set up for it, whereas far fewer support Node.js. Also, I wouldn't have a clue where to start with Node.js, so my vote is for PHP



I refer you to this




__





						Express - Node.js web application framework
					






					expressjs.com
				




You will be amazed at how simple it is to create a working website using node.js


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 12, 2020)

Sunray said:


> PHP is terrible, always puzzled why do people still use it?   Use node.js? JS is a better language given the low bar of PHP.


this is all types of wrong 


> Is node.js installed by default on macs?


No. Or at least I have apparently had to install it with `brew` in the past.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 28, 2021)

Apple announce new privacy features in an upcoming update.









						Data Privacy Day at Apple: Improving transparency and empowering users
					

For Data Privacy Day, Apple is sharing “A Day in the Life of Your Data” to help users take control of their data.



					www.apple.com
				




Zuck’s already thrown his toys out the pram









						Tim Cook hits out at social media apps that 'prioritise conspiracies' as war with Facebook heats up
					

Apple and Facebook are in a public war of words over Apple's upcoming app privacy changes




					www.telegraph.co.uk
				





and because we haven’t talked about how filthy rich Apple are for a few days. Here’s more confirmation that Apple are filthy rich which I’m sure will stoke more conversation than the privacy stuff 🤷‍♂️









						Apple Christmas sales surge to $111bn amid pandemic
					

Families loaded up on the latest technology and sales increased in China.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				





New products maybe? There was an article I saw last week and forgot to post it about apples potential upcoming ‘ridiculously expensive’ vr headset.









						Apple launching expensive virtual reality headset, report claims
					

Apple is planning to launch an expensive, niche virtual reality headset ahead of its widely rumoured AR smart glasses, according to a major new report.




					www.independent.co.uk
				





Other stuff including long awaited airtags? 









						Apple CEO Tim Cook teases 'new things' coming in 2021 – here's what they could be
					

Cook hinted at upcoming products during Apple's Q1 2021 earnings call




					www.techradar.com


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2021)

cybershot said:


> and because we haven’t talked about how filthy rich Apple are for a few days. Here’s more confirmation that Apple are filthy rich which I’m sure will stoke more conversation than the privacy stuff 🤷‍♂️
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They're not mutually exclusive concepts: you can hate Apple - and other mega rich companies - for exploiting their workers and supply chain to make such obscene profits for itself, and you can also loathe Facebook for their shitty privacy policies too.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 28, 2021)

I am very tempted by the iPad Air, nearly bought one the other day.   While essentially the iPad Pro SE with a different name, I use my iPad mini so much now, a bigger screen is super attractive.


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2021)

Here's a mightily miffed user


----------



## pesh (Feb 12, 2021)

that was a lot duller than i thought it would be


----------



## platinumsage (Feb 12, 2021)

Seems he neglected his backups for 15 years, so shouldn't have been surprised it took a bit of work to recover them. If he'd been paying attention he would have known at the time that Logic 7.2 was the last compatible version and could have utilised it before it became necessary "to have a machine with a 16 year old OS installed".


----------



## teuchter (Feb 12, 2021)

I expect views on how far backwards-compatible it's reasonable to expect software to be, will vary.

I just checked for the CAD software that I use every day ... and the current version ought to be able to import files from the version that was released in 1998.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 12, 2021)

editor said:


> Here's a mightily miffed user



“Man fails to maintain sufficient backup  maintenance”


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> “Man fails to maintain sufficient backup  maintenance”


"He's holding it wrong"


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 12, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I expect views on how far backwards-compatible it's reasonable to expect software to be, will vary.
> 
> I just checked for the CAD software that I use every day ... and the current version ought to be able to import files from the version that was released in 1998


Totally depends on the nature of the software.

For music production the underlying tech/supporting hardware has changed so much it would be insane to expect files from 15 years ago to still be compatible. Keeping on top of this sort of (extremely tedious) admin is just a part of the progress I’m afraid.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 12, 2021)

editor said:


> "He's holding it wrong"


Not really.


----------



## pesh (Feb 12, 2021)

'i've been hired to restore 2001 - A Space Odyssey and i'm really miffed theres no neg scanner on my 2021 Macbook Air.'


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Not really.


So you've absolutely zero sympathy or empathy for the guy? None at all? In your mind it's _entirely his fault_ that Apple has made it so difficult to open older files?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 12, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Totally depends on the nature of the software.
> 
> For music production the underlying tech/supporting hardware has changed so much it would be insane to expect files from 15 years ago to still be compatible. Keeping on top of this sort of (extremely tedious) admin is just a part of the progress I’m afraid.


Sure, but if it's a widely used software, then I think it's not unreasonable to expect there will be some way of converting stuff, even if it's not possible to import directly into the latest version.

There's another CAD package, different from the one I use now, but I used it round about 2000. A year or two ago I was asked if I could retrieve drawings from back then, which I did still have copies of from all that time ago. In that case, the software company had an application you could download from their website which would let you open those old files, and re-save them in a current format. And they didn't even require you to have a current software license.

Also... it would be quite a common scenario that you might have hundreds of files from old jobs, and then a small-ish chance that you need to access one or two of them in the future. There are two ways of accommodating that: either the software provider spends a relatively small amount of effort maintaining something that can convert old files, and providing this to users, or every single user tries to convert every single one of their old files into an updated format every five years, or whatever would be deemed an appropriate frequency. The first of those approaches seems a more sensible one to me.


----------



## Chz (Feb 12, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I expect views on how far backwards-compatible it's reasonable to expect software to be, will vary.
> 
> I just checked for the CAD software that I use every day ... and the current version ought to be able to import files from the version that was released in 1998.


It is Windows' greatest strength, but also its albatross.
Apple have been very public about their attitude towards backwards compatibility, and I have to think that you're a nitwit if you actually expect some 15 year-old Apple stuff to work on a current machine. It enables them to push new things much better than Microsoft can, but at a cost.


----------



## platinumsage (Feb 12, 2021)

Why isn’t Urban75 fully compatible with the Lynx text-based web browser? How are Lynx users supposed to see the embedded Facebook post?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 12, 2021)

Chz said:


> It is Windows' greatest strength, but also its albatross.
> Apple have been very public about their attitude towards backwards compatibility, and I have to think that you're a nitwit if you actually expect some 15 year-old Apple stuff to work on a current machine. It enables them to push new things much better than Microsoft can, but at a cost.


But this is not expecting 15 year old stuff to work on a current machine. It's expecting to be able to convert some 15 year old files from widely used software, into a current format without having to email them to an obscure guy you found on the internet.


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Why isn’t Urban75 fully compatible with the Lynx text-based web browser? How are Lynx users supposed to see the embedded Facebook post?
> 
> View attachment 253975


How much did you pay to use urban75?


----------



## platinumsage (Feb 12, 2021)

editor said:


> How much did you pay to use urban75?



As much as this guy paid Apple for software that was guaranteed to be backwards compatible until the end of time.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Feb 12, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Why isn’t Urban75 fully compatible with the Lynx text-based web browser? How are Lynx users supposed to see the embedded Facebook post?
> 
> View attachment 253975


works fine on Netscape Navigator


----------



## editor (Feb 12, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> As much as this guy paid Apple for software that was guaranteed to be backwards compatible until the end of time.


Yeah fuck him and all the money he spent with Apple. Who does he think he is hoping for the ability to convert a file made on an older Apple machine into a usable format without tracking down a 70 year old bloke in Germany?  Wanker.


----------



## platinumsage (Feb 12, 2021)

editor said:


> Yeah fuck him and all the money he spent with Apple. Who does he think he is hoping for the ability to convert a file made on an older Apple machine into a usable format without tracking down a 70 year old bloke in Germany?  Wanker.



Exactly.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 12, 2021)

Stop feeding the troll


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 12, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> “Man fails to maintain sufficient backup  maintenance”


What a tit.

He's wasted his own time.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 12, 2021)

Better dust off my VHS player and convert those tapes. Don't wan't to have to buy those on DVD, Blu-ray or 4K again.


----------



## platinumsage (Feb 12, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Better dust off my VHS player and convert those tapes. Don't wan't to have to buy those on DVD, Blu-ray or 4K again.



You could just sue Panasonic or Sony or whatever, I'm sure there were lots of successful court cases back in the day, because it's obvisouly totally unreasonable for a company to produce new stuff which doesn't work with old stuff.


----------



## danski (Feb 13, 2021)

editor said:


> "He's holding it wrong"


Lol pretty certain those speakers aren’t designed to be horizontal, so who knows?!!


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2021)

This is a really good piece (written by an Apple user). And yes, the same applies to almost all other phone makers too.



> *Artisanal mining?*
> I was asked if I knew what this was, do you know? I didn’t. I guessed. I associated the word with luxury, something made by an artisan. Like that posh coffee, roasted by hand. You know, served in a place where the owners decided to open before they finished plastering the walls.
> 
> I guessed wrong.
> ...













						Behind the Mac
					

As Apple faces allegations of child labour in a US lawsuit, now might be a good time to ask, what really is behind the Mac?




					susesteed.medium.com


----------



## danski (Feb 13, 2021)

You generally get plenty of warning if this type of thing is to happen.
It should’ve been no surprise and would’ve been easy, not to mention sensible, to take appropriate steps in good time.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 13, 2021)

danski said:


> You generally get plenty of warning if this type of thing is to happen.
> It should’ve been no surprise and would’ve been easy, not to mention sensible, to take appropriate steps in good time.



I didn’t want to sound knobish yesterday, but yeah. This problem has existed since 2016 at the earliest from Googling with people advising  to convert stuff with 7.x while available.

As ‘a professional’ he should have known he needed to get this sorted.

File formats change. Latest office may open an office 95 file but it really doesn’t want you to and you have to jump hoops.

Apple should have provided a converter though and I don’t think that’s unrealistic unless there was some major vulnerability in the old file format they chose to not disclose.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 13, 2021)

(I actually have install DVDs for Tiger and a mac that will run them but that's me and tech hoarding.)


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 13, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> (I actually have install DVDs for Tiger and a mac that will run them but that's me and tech hoarding.)


I also have a working 16 year old Powerbook 12" running Leopard and some Tiger installation disks.

And the remains of a Titanium PowerBook which booted last time I tried it.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 13, 2021)

editor said:


> This is a really good piece (written by an Apple user). And yes, the same applies to almost all other phone makers too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The removal of Cobalt from batteries is a top priority for most battery manufactures,  technology has got it right down but having trouble removing it completely.  Africa isn't the only place in the world with enough to mine.  The world is a big place.  The problem arises, it's cheap and all goes to China and China don't give much of a shit about the lives and ecology of their own country let alone a poor African one.









						Cutting battery industry's reliance on cobalt will be an uphill task
					

Electric cars and consumer electronics use mineral mined in exploitative conditions in Congo




					www.theguardian.com
				




DRC isn't the only country that mines Cobalt








						Top Cobalt Production by Country
					

Despite the decrease in cobalt prices, interest in the battery metal is still riding high, with analysts cautiously optimistic about cobalt production in the coming years.One of the metal’s main catalysts is excitement about electric vehicles. The lithium-ion batteries that power these cars...




					investingnews.com


----------



## sim667 (Feb 18, 2021)

Lazy Llama said:


> I also have a working 16 year old Powerbook 12" running Leopard and some Tiger installation disks.
> 
> And the remains of a Titanium PowerBook which booted last time I tried it.



I have a 17” G4 PowerBook too. No idea what to do with it, I just keep it incase I ‘need it’ some day 🙄


----------



## pesh (Feb 18, 2021)

G4 Powerbooks will never die.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 24, 2021)

> Apple's largest acquisition in the last decade was its $3bn purchase of Beats Electronics, the headphone maker founded by rapper and producer Dr Dre.
> Another high profile purchase was music recognition software company Shazam, for $400m in 2018.
> Most often, Apple buys smaller technology firms and then incorporates their innovations into its own products.





> Measured by value, Apple’s acquisitions are actually far more restrained than those of many of its tech rivals.
> Microsoft paid $26bn for LinkedIn, Amazon paid $13.7bn for Whole Foods and Facebook paid $19bn for WhatsApp.
> Apple’s ten largest purchases put together would still be worth far less than any of those deals.











						Apple buys a company every three to four weeks
					

The technology giant has bought around 100 companies in six years, chief executive Tim Cook has revealed.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 24, 2021)

Apparently, buying Beats has been quite profitable for them - they make money on the headphones (which they've improved) but also Beats One was a boost to their streaming service at a significant time.


----------



## NoXion (Mar 12, 2021)

"Right to repair" advocate Louis Rossmann takes Apple to task over their labour practices:


----------



## Sunray (Mar 12, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apparently, buying Beats has been quite profitable for them - they make money on the headphones (which they've improved) but also Beats One was a boost to their streaming service at a significant time.



It wasn't for the brand, they just wanted to take the engineers and not have to compete with Beats.  
Check out how many products Beats have released since Apple bought them.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 13, 2021)

This is a shame as IMO this is a fantastic piece of kit, why they don’t just drop the price I don’t know, it’s the only thing holding it back. I’m not sure the mini packs anywhere near the punch, I now watch most of my tv via the HomePod and movies especially sound so much better than via my sound bar. 









						Apple discontinues original HomePod
					

Tonight Apple announced via TechCrunch that the original HomePod has been discontinued. The company will shift its focus to the HomePod mini introduced in October. The original HomePod will continue to be available at Apple and other resellers until supply runs out. Apple also notes that the...




					9to5mac.com
				




Of course it probably just means a bigger, better more expensive one is on the way.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 21, 2021)

Brazil really is a dumb country at the moment. Fining for lack of charger.









						Apple Fined $2 Million in Brazil for Selling iPhones Without Chargers
					

Apple has been slapped with a near $2 million fine in the Brazilian state of São Paulo over violations of the Consumer Law Code due to the lack...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2021)

FFS. So I'd always liked the Beats earphones. Fairly cheap, decent sound with a reasonable amount of bass thrown in. 

I saw that they'd released the Beats Flex wired Bluetooth earphones that had picked up decent reviews for the kind of price I was looking to pay. So I ordered a pair. Arrived today.  And then I remembered that they'd been bought by fucking Apple. But, hey! It won't matter once they're playing music, I thought.  I was wrong. 

First I'm compelled to download some appallingly badly rated software I don't want just to connect the fucking things (a first for any wireless earphones) and then... nothing.  I get a permanent pointless notification   telling me that the "Beats app is running BLE in the background to connect to your Beats instantly." Clicking 'finish' takes me back to the app.  

Naturally, the Apple 'support' pages offers no way to talk to anyone directly.  I'll give it another 5 mins fiddling about and it's going back with my opinion of Apple even lower. 









						Use the Beats app for Android
					

You can use the Beats app for Android to pair your devices and update firmware.



					support.apple.com


----------



## Saul Goodman (Mar 25, 2021)

editor said:


> FFS. So I'd always liked the Beats earphones. Fairly cheap, decent sound with a reasonable amount of bass thrown in.
> 
> I saw that they'd released the Beats Flex wired Bluetooth earphones that had picked up decent reviews for the kind of price I was looking to pay. So I ordered a pair. Arrived today.  And then I remembered that they'd been bought by fucking Apple. But, hey! It won't matter once they're playing music, I thought.  I was wrong.
> 
> ...


Take them to a 'Genius bar', where some genius will tell you it's water damage.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Mar 25, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Brazil really is a dumb country at the moment. Fining for lack of charger.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how very DARE you! 🇧🇷
There's no where near the saturation of old iPhone chargers here in the 3rd world, so it makes sense to stop Apple ripping people off as a lot of folk here will be buying their first iPhone. iPhones are VERY expensive here.

iPhone 12 mini R$ 6,999 = GBP 920 (GBP699 in the UK)
Minimum wage R$1088/month = GBP 142 PER MONTH!


----------



## editor (Apr 13, 2021)

Apple told to stop bullshitting 









						UK Regulators Tell Apple to Cease 'Beyond HDR' Pro Display XDR Claim
					

The words "Far Beyond HDR" have been removed.




					petapixel.com


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 2, 2021)

Apple TV now available on Android TV  👊 (and Nvidia Shield)




I haven't really watched much of it, despite having a free subscription for ages. The Morning Show was very good though and I recommend.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 2, 2021)

editor said:


> FFS. So I'd always liked the Beats earphones. Fairly cheap, decent sound with a reasonable amount of bass thrown in.
> 
> I saw that they'd released the Beats Flex wired Bluetooth earphones that had picked up decent reviews for the kind of price I was looking to pay. So I ordered a pair. Arrived today.  And then I remembered that they'd been bought by fucking Apple. But, hey! It won't matter once they're playing music, I thought.  I was wrong.
> 
> ...



I read/watched a fairly compelling piece saying Apple didn't buy Beats for them to sell Beats headphones,  but for their engineers and so they didn't have to compete with them.

Can't you just connect to them with Bluetooth?  The Sony bud earphones I have,  have a slightly pointless app and it's so bad.  I was having loads of disconnects, then I deleted the app.  Solved.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 2, 2021)

Sunray said:


> I read/watched a fairly compelling piece saying Apple didn't buy Beats for them to sell Beats headphones,  but for their engineers and so they didn't have to compete with them.
> 
> Can't you just connect to them with Bluetooth?  The Sony bud earphones I have,  have a slightly pointless app and it's so bad.  I was having loads of disconnects, then I deleted the app.  Solved.


Companies rarely buy other companies to sell their competitor's products.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 3, 2021)

Tried out Apple TV on my Philips Ambilight Android TV last night to watch the excellent movie 'Greyhound' with Tom Hanks/Stephen Graham. 

It was alright but still lacking in quite a lot of features such as ability to switch on closed captions, a 'resume' from where I left off feature. Picture was a bit choppy in places, but that might've been the connection on my side. I'm not sure. They need to sort all that out.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 7, 2021)

New event happening on Sept 14 likely iPhone 13 being announced and Apple Watch 7









						Apple officially announces September 14 event for iPhone 13 and more
					

Apple has officially confirmed its iPhone 13 and Apple Watch Series 7 event for September 14. Here's everything you need to know.




					9to5mac.com


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 8, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple TV now available on Android TV  👊 (and Nvidia Shield)



I couldn't get the fucking thing to work on my Apple devices. I've had two free subscriptions I could never get into.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 8, 2021)

Anyone mentioned the possibility of an Apple Search Engine? At the moment I understand Google is paying Apple a massive sum to continue as the search engine of choice on Apple devices. Still the rumours continue that Apple may decide to have a go themselves.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 8, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Anyone mentioned the possibility of an Apple Search Engine? At the moment I understand Google is paying Apple a massive sum to continue as the search engine of choice on Apple devices. Still the rumours continue that Apple may decide to have a go themselves.


New motto... Don't be iVil.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2021)

The apple event is staring in just over an hour. 6pm BST. Here's what to expect.









						What to Expect at the September 14 Apple Event: iPhone 13, Apple Watch Series 7, and More
					

Apple is holding its annual iPhone-centric event on Tuesday, September 14, and like last year, it will be entirely digital. We've been hearing...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2021)

The live video stream is here Apple Event


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 14, 2021)

I read this might be the last mini iPhone as it hasn’t sold well. I’m devastated.


----------



## nick (Sep 14, 2021)

So is it safe to assume that (in uk) iPhone 12 is about to get a whole lot cheaper.  If so, when do you think this will happen? In need of a new phone, but happy to wait a week if it will result in savings


----------



## A380 (Sep 14, 2021)

I’m hoping for an idea like a segue but even more shit.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 14, 2021)

nick said:


> So is it safe to assume that (in uk) iPhone 12 is about to get a whole lot cheaper.  If so, when do you think this will happen? In need of a new phone, but happy to wait a week if it will result in savings



Ususally on the day the new one launches


----------



## weltweit (Sep 14, 2021)

I don't suppose there is much discussion of "zero-click" spyware that could infect iPhones and iPads .. I got something about it from my phone company even though I don't have an iPhone.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 14, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I don't suppose there is much discussion of "zero-click" spyware that could infect iPhones and iPads .. I got something about it from my phone company even though I don't have an iPhone.


Are you a likely target of government intelligence or international police entities?
If not I don't think anyone will pay the Israelis to hack you. Don't sweat it.


----------



## nick (Sep 14, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Ususally on the day the new one launches


So 24th


----------



## Gromit (Sep 14, 2021)

iPhone pro models. 
As far as I can see unless you have aspirations of becoming a film maker on the cheap you might as well just buy the normal phone and spend £300 on a real compact camera.
Although obvs some will just buy to flaunt the fact they have the top model.

I'm waiting to see what trade in my X is worth to see if it's worth future proofing myself.


----------



## nick (Sep 14, 2021)

Same for me - X is dying so time for a replacement.
Question (for me) is whether buying a pro gives more future proofing that buying a straight 13? because a bit faster etc


----------



## Gromit (Sep 14, 2021)

nick said:


> Same for me - X is dying so time for a replacement.
> Question (for me) is whether buying a pro gives more future proofing that buying a straight 13? because a bit faster etc


Nope. Same processor.
Just better camera and software for its use.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 14, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I don't suppose there is much discussion of "zero-click" spyware that could infect iPhones and iPads .. I got something about it from my phone company even though I don't have an iPhone.


No mention but iPhone and iPad updates 14.8 (released a few days ago ) block the Israeli companies software.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 14, 2021)

Taken from



basically all new models start at the same price as the what the 12 ones did, and the 12 has had $100 knocked off, not sure what that will translate to in UK, probably already live on the UK Apple site.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 14, 2021)

nick said:


> Same for me - X is dying so time for a replacement.
> Question (for me) is whether buying a pro gives more future proofing that buying a straight 13? because a bit faster etc



I doubt it, a lot of the features of the 12 Pro have made it into the base model of the 13, so take from that what you will. Ultimatly for me it's iOS support that is the key feature. iOS 15 supported on all models down to the iPhone 6s. Which means by the time iOS 15 released a 6 year old handset is still getting the latest OS. Mileage will vary, and I expect anyone still rocking a 6S will have had needed to have a new battery by now. I see Samsung have announced their phones will now get 4 years of security updates, which is better than before, but if like me and you like to hand me down the iPhones to family members, despite the initial costs, the supported lifespan can't be beaten!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 14, 2021)

That my trusty old 6s - now 6 years old - will still get the latest OS is really quite something in tech terms. The battery is shagged, but a new one is easy enough to get.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 15, 2021)

Apple have released release candidate 1 for iOS both phone and iPad  to developers ( and to those who are public beta testers ), there will probably be a RC2 that will be the final release which should be released on the 20th. Be aware if you are tempted it may break some software ( in this case Microsoft Office is banjaxed ) so not for work machines.


OS iOS 15 that is.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 15, 2021)

Apple issues urgent iPhone software update to address critical spyware vulnerability​Apple has released security updates for a zero-day vulnerability that affects every iPhone, iPad, Mac and Apple Watch

Researchers from the University of Toronto's Citizen Lab said the software exploit has been in use since February and has been used to deploy Pegasus, the spyware made by Israeli firm NSO Group that has allegedly been used to surveil journalists and human rights advocates in multiple countries.









						Apple issues urgent iPhone software update to address critical spyware vulnerability
					

Apple has updated its software for iPhones to address a critical vulnerability that independent researchers say has been exploited by notorious surveillance software to spy on a Saudi activist.




					edition.cnn.com


----------



## teuchter (Sep 15, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That my trusty old 6s - now 6 years old - will still get the latest OS is really quite something in tech terms. The battery is shagged, but a new one is easy enough to get.


I have an iPad Air 2 (from 2014 so 6 or 7 years old) and I'm quite impressed that it can run the latest iPadOS, and is still completely fine and usable for web browsing, watching youtube and so on. Yet to see whether it'll be able to run iPadOS 15 whenever that appears.

(And I only very recently replaced my originally-2007 Mac Pro that had been running pretty well as my main for the past 5+ years)


----------



## peterkro (Sep 15, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I have an iPad Air 2 (from 2014 so 6 or 7 years old) and I'm quite impressed that it can run the latest iPadOS, and is still completely fine and usable for web browsing, watching youtube and so on. Yet to see whether it'll be able to run iPadOS 15 whenever that appears.
> 
> (And I only very recently replaced my originally-2007 Mac Pro that had been running pretty well as my main for the past 5+ years)


looks like it will:



iPhone 12 MiniiPad Pro 12.9-inch (5th generation)iPhone 12iPad Pro 11-inch (3rd generation)iPhone 12 ProiPad Pro 12.9-inch (4th generation)iPhone 12 Pro MaxiPad Pro 11-inch (2nd generation)Phone 11iPad Pro 12.9-inch (3rd generation)iPhone 11 ProiPad Pro 11-inch (1st generation)iPhone 11 Pro MaxiPad Pro 12.9-inch (2nd generation)iPhone XSiPad Pro 12.9-inch (1st generation)iPhone XS MaxiPad Pro 10.5-inchiPhone XRiPad Pro 9.7-inchiPhone XiPad (8th generation)iPhone 8iPad (7th generation)iPhone 8 PlusiPad (6th generation)iPhone 7iPad (5th generation)iPhone 7 PlusiPad Mini (5th generation)iPhone 6siPad Mini 4iPhone 6s PlusiPad Air (4th generation)iPhone SE (1st generation)iPad Air (3rd generation)iPhone SE (2nd generation)iPad Air 2iPod Touch (7th generation)
​


----------



## bimble (Sep 16, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Apple issues urgent iPhone software update to address critical spyware vulnerability​Apple has released security updates for a zero-day vulnerability that affects every iPhone, iPad, Mac and Apple Watch
> 
> Researchers from the University of Toronto's Citizen Lab said the software exploit has been in use since February and has been used to deploy Pegasus, the spyware made by Israeli firm NSO Group that has allegedly been used to surveil journalists and human rights advocates in multiple countries.
> 
> ...


yeah just been told about this. 
apparently updating the laptop to 11.6 is important too for the same reason. scary shit.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 16, 2021)

bimble said:


> yeah just been told about this.
> apparently updating the laptop to 11.6 is important too for the same reason. scary shit.


Seems Apple have a big enough market share now for hackers to start giving a shit about them.


----------



## bimble (Sep 16, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Seems Apple have a big enough market share now for hackers to start giving a shit about them.


yeah. my friend said its important to download these updates cos usually you have to do something a bit stupid in order to get hacked but with this you don't, just looking at a website is enough.


----------



## elbows (Sep 16, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Seems Apple have a big enough market share now for hackers to start giving a shit about them.


A lot of these hacks are highly targeted, political stuff. And targets of interest to intelligence services etc will have been using Apple devices for a long time already, this isnt a new phenomenon, but it gets more attention these days.

eg: 



> Citizen Lab also said the security issue was exploited to plant spyware on a Saudi activist's iPhone, adding that it had high confidence that the Israeli hacker-for-hire firm, NSO Group, was behind that attack.
> 
> In a statement to the Reuters news agency, NSO did not confirm or deny that it was behind the spyware, saying only that it would "continue to provide intelligence and law enforcement agencies around the world with life-saving technologies to fight terror and crime".











						Apple rushes to block 'zero-click' iPhone spyware
					

The flaw allows hackers to access devices even if users do not click on a link or file.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cybershot (Sep 17, 2021)

So pre orders open. Price drop for the pro models now starting at £949 as opposed to £999 last year.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 18, 2021)

Bit more detail here.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 18, 2021)

I don't know if this it the place to post this . . . but
I wanted to get my wife a apple watch se for her birthday, but wondered if there would likely be a drop in price in the next month? or has there just been one?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 19, 2021)

Assuming you can pre-order the new one on the Apple website then those will be the prices for the next year. If they will find the blood oxygen and ecg stuff useful I would seriously consider the 6 as well.

ETA: don’t look like you can pre order the 7 yet so I would hold off just in case. I suspect there will be no price changes though and the 6 will just be discontinued. If you can be arsed to set up alerts on hotukdeals you might get lucky down the line with places trying to get rid of their series 6 stock at a lower price. Depends how much you’re willing to wait.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 19, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Assuming you can pre-order the new one on the Apple website then those will be the prices for the next year. If they will find the blood oxygen and ecg stuff useful I would seriously consider the 6 as well.
> 
> ETA: don’t look like you can pre order the 7 yet so I would hold off just in case. I suspect there will be no price changes though and the 6 will just be discontinued. If you can be arsed to set up alerts on hotukdeals you might get lucky down the line with places trying to get rid of their series 6 stock at a lower price. Depends how much you’re willing to wait.


Ah, I looked into the 6, and basically the blood oxygen and ECG stuff is bollocks and doesn't really work. Better to buy a finger tester for a couple of quid if you are really concerned. Don't really need the screen on all the time either so just going for the SE version. Don't care about the 7. 
I assume then that it's doubtful the SE will drop in price between now and November. 
I could go for a series 3, but even though it offers pretty much the same at a better value, my wife might think I'm being a cheap skate for the sake of £70 (not that I'm made of money).


----------



## cybershot (Sep 19, 2021)

I’d suspect the SE will continue to get watchOS updates beyond the series 3. I’m surprised they still sell it. It’s a bit long in the tooth now.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Sep 19, 2021)

This has prompted me to look at the Apple watch specs. I'm amazed by them only having 18hour battery life.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 19, 2021)

Mine can easily last 24 hours (series 4) Maybe it’s because the newer ones screen is always on. I assume you can change it so it isn’t to save battery. I forgot to charge before bed the other night and had 27% when I woke up. Quick 30 min charge at work and back at full power.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 19, 2021)

Throbbing Angel said:


> This has prompted me to look at the Apple watch specs. I'm amazed by them only having 18hour battery life.


Yeah, they are most certainly not for me. I'm looking at getting a new watch to monitor my running and general fitness and apple is NOT no my list. My current watch does far more than a month on an charge. . . Mind you my phone does the bulk of work .


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Sep 19, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Mine can easily last 24 hours (series 4) Maybe it’s because the newer ones screen is always on. I assume you can change it so it isn’t to save battery. I forgot to charge before bed the other night and had 27% when I woke up. Quick 30 min charge at work and back at full power.



I'd forget to charge every day. I wouldn't want to have to remember that either.
I've had Samsung, Mi and Amazfit watches and they all offer days, weeks in some cases and all can do pretty much the same as the SE.

I'm an Android phone user, though, so the Apple watches don't appeal to me.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 19, 2021)

Throbbing Angel said:


> I'd forget to charge every day. I wouldn't want to have to remember that either.
> I've had Samsung, Mi and Amazfit watches and they all offer days, weeks in some cases and all can do pretty much the same as the SE.
> 
> I'm and Android phone user, though, so the Apple watches don't appeal to me.


Well yes. I have a mi which is actually super great for the money, (probably worth it just as a watch and step counter) however it's not quite as in depth as I want anymore, (and I want something to properly integrate with Strava).

 The wife is all about the apple phones and pads, (which I hate) so will want the matching watch. 
Oddly she doesn't want or use apple computers, whereas I love mine iMac and MacBook Pro.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 19, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah, they are most certainly not for me. I'm looking at getting a new watch to monitor my running and general fitness and apple is NOT no my list. My current watch does far more than a month on an charge. . . Mind you my phone does the bulk of work .



Yes. They look shiny, but they are smart watches with some fitness features as opposed to Garmins which do fitness really well and have some smart watch features. Mine does 11 days just as a watch and almost 12 hours if your actually using it in full fitness mode. And I'm considering a Coras for next year if I get my arse in gear and do this 100km I'm booked in for.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 23, 2021)

Security updates for iPhone 5 and 6. Phones 7 to 8 years old. Any android devices of such age still getting updates? 









						Apple Releases iOS 12.5.5 Update for Older iPhones With Fix for Zero-Day Exploit
					

Apple today released an iOS 12.5.5 update for older iPhones and iPads that are not able to run the current version of iOS, iOS 15.   The update can...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2021)

Looks like there's an event next Monday 18th Oct for some new products


----------



## pesh (Oct 13, 2021)

about time, my 2015 MBP has been doing that occasional split second screen glitch that means a logic board failure is in your near future for the last 2 months and i've been keeping my fingers crossed it would last till the new ones came out.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 13, 2021)

It’s quite fiddly, the 13. i need to learn some new gestures - so many keyboard shortcuts that I know I’ll never learn


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2021)

And I for one, managed to lose my airpods case last night on the train. Although, they are definitely on their last legs after a solid three and a half years of service. They just about make half an hour of listening time, and barely 15 of talktime now. Bring on the new airpods basically.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 13, 2021)

pesh said:


> about time, my 2015 MBP has been doing that occasional split second screen glitch that means a logic board failure is in your near future for the last 2 months and i've been keeping my fingers crossed it would last till the new ones came out.


Uh oh. I'm on a 2015 PBP. I LOVE IT. I never want it to die. It has all the connections I need that don't feature in any models that come after it. I dock it into a Thunderbolt Monitor for work. . . again, nothing this good appears to be on offer after this utterly brilliant set up. 
I can take my laptop wherever, with external thunderbolt drives, then dock it onto a massive screen and plug it straight into Lan for stable internet. 
Fucking apple. If any one of these discontinued items dies, I'm screwed. I'll be forced to buy a new iMac or something and get bloody thunderbolt 3 adaptors hanging out of everything.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> And I for one, managed to lose my airpods case last night on the train. Although, they are definitely on their last legs after a solid three and a half years of service. They just about make half an hour of listening time, and barely 15 of talktime now. Bring on the new airpods basically.


But when you think about it, it is fucking terrible that a product just three years old only has a battery life of half an hour and can practically only be thrown away.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2021)

editor said:


> But when you think about it, it is fucking terrible that a product just three years old only has a battery life of half an hour and can practically only be thrown away.



I'll give you that. The fact a perfectly able product is effectively rendered useless because the battery is irreplaceable is my biggest gripe with airpods. Although I'd already accepted this when I first got them, it is shameful that I can't just get an updated battery because they work absolutely fine otherwise.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'll give you that. The fact a perfectly able product is effectively rendered useless because the battery is irreplaceable is my biggest gripe with airpods. Although I'd already accepted this when I first got them, it is shameful that I can't just get an updated battery because they work absolutely fine otherwise.


Apple aren't the only offenders of course, but in the midst of a climate emergency it's bordering on criminal behaviour for companies to be selling high value products as essentially unrepairable throwaway items.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 13, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'll give you that. The fact a perfectly able product is effectively rendered useless because the battery is irreplaceable is my biggest gripe with airpods. Although I'd already accepted this when I first got them, it is shameful that I can't just get an updated battery because they work absolutely fine otherwise.


This is what stops me buying a pair.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> This is what stops me buying a pair.


And Apple - with all their incredible expertise and vast pots of near unlimited wealth - have _absolutely no fucking excuse_ not to make the batteries replaceable.   Instead they'd rather go for more profit stream and fuck up the environment even more. 

Bunch of cunts, just like the rest of those mega companies taking the piss with their self proclaimed green credentials.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 13, 2021)

Apple offer battery replacement for AirPods and AirPods Pro, it's on their website.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Apple offer battery replacement for AirPods and AirPods Pro, it's on their website.


For how much?

And of course by the time they come up for renewal they'll be spending millions to tell you how much more essential the new latest version is.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 13, 2021)

£45 per earbud




__





						AirPods Service & Repair  – Apple Support (UK)
					

Need to repair your AirPods? See your service options, their costs by cover type and how long they take.



					support.apple.com


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2021)

Crispy said:


> £45 per earbud
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So £90 a pair, not including postage.

I imagine most Apple customers would just get the new ones.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 13, 2021)

Do other manufacturers of Bluetooth earphones offer battery replacement?

At least expensive earphones less likely to be thrown away as regularly as shitty wired ones which typically lasted a few months before ending up in landfill.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 13, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> This is what stops me buying a pair.


The fact that they're ridiculously overpriced and sound shit is what stops me.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 13, 2021)

So so loseable. Just buy a massive pair of unwieldy headphones instead


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 13, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> The fact that they're ridiculously overpriced and sound shit is what stops me.


For what they are - small, non moulded in ear buds, they actually sound pretty decent. A lot will come down to the shape of your ear canal and how far in and how well sealed you can get them.

For anyone that's serious about a set of in ear headphones, get a custom moulded pair. Prices from fairly reasonable to _how fucking much_...


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> So so loseable. Just buy a massive pair of unwieldy headphones instead



They have added a feature where if you have an iphone and airpods and leave the airpods behind, it will alert you at that moment, and can also use the standard apple 'find my bloody device' network of other users to help locate them later.

Not that I've tried the above for myself or am aware of exactly what models it applies to.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Oct 13, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> The fact that they're ridiculously overpriced and sound shit is what stops me.



This.  Lil'Angel and I found one on the floor at Manchester Oxford Rd Station at the weekend.

I have similar buds but they were £30 - I'd only be miffed rather than apoplectic if I lost one/them.  And they sound great.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 13, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> For what they are - small, non moulded in ear buds, they actually sound pretty decent. A lot will come down to the shape of your ear canal and how far in and how well sealed you can get them.
> 
> For anyone that's serious about a set of in ear headphones, get a custom moulded pair. Prices from fairly reasonable to _how fucking much_...


They sound pretty good, but they definitely don't sound £100 better than the ones I use for running. I could also NEVER trust them to stay in. At least my runners are connected by a cable I can thread through my backpack.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Do other manufacturers of Bluetooth earphones offer battery replacement?
> 
> At least expensive earphones less likely to be thrown away as regularly as shitty wired ones which typically lasted a few months before ending up in landfill.


They're far more likely to be lost too. Apple (and others) have successfully carved out a whole new lucrative market for themselves with their 'replace single earbud' sales. 

And if you're going to be comparing like with like, then compare them to expensive wired headphones, not cheap shit. You know, the kind of things that can potentially last decades without extra 'investment.'


----------



## cybershot (Oct 18, 2021)




----------



## elbows (Oct 18, 2021)

They did a pretty good job of the short hype video.



But then I would say that as I am GPU centric, GPUs are at the heart of my creative ambitions. I need all the GPU power I can get for realtime 3D fluid simulations and other realtime graphics stuff, but I get caught in a quandry with discreet GPUs  because I hate heat and noise and excessive power consumption. The original M1 impressed me in this regard, although it didnt have the level of grunt I needed it did demonstrate the potential it was possible to imagine when considering further scaling up of this tech. Now it is just a question of finding out how the 32 GPU core configuration actually turns out in terms of performance, noise and energy consumption. There is a reasonable chance it will just about manage to achieve the right balance and meet my requirements.

For those who seek opportunities to mock the new devices, as always people can laugh at the prices. But they can also find opportunities to mock the u-turns apple have performed in terms of ditching the touch bar, bringing back certain ports. Apple also seem to have conceded that when it comes to this sort of performance class they should prioritise thermal performance over weight and thinness.

Plus these laptops use the notch design and some will find cause to mock that and the way they hide it in much of the marketing material.


----------



## magneze (Oct 18, 2021)

Weird to have the notch but no Face ID.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2021)

They are some scarily powerful laptops for sure.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 19, 2021)

Ordered the new Airpods 3, should be arriving on Tuesday. They look like a solid improvement, aesthetically, and in performance. And thankfully they don't have those silicone tips of the pro which I hate, plus bluetooth 5.0.

I've also engraved the case with my phone number just in case it gets lost.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 19, 2021)

I love my Pros. Although since driving into work since I moved house, I now hardly use them!


----------



## cybershot (Oct 19, 2021)

Peak apple









						Apple Releases Polishing Cloth for $19
					

Apple today released a microfiber Polishing Cloth accessory, designed for cleaning the screens of Apple devices, for $19.   Although today's...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 19, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Peak apple
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, it's for cleaning the screens of Apple devices. I wanted one for my not-Apple device but its not on the compatibility list.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 19, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Damn, it's for cleaning the screens of Apple devices. I wanted one for my not-Apple device but its not on the compatibility list.


----------



## Gerry1time (Oct 19, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Damn, it's for cleaning the screens of Apple devices. I wanted one for my not-Apple device but its not on the compatibility list.


Doesn't look like it's backwards compatible with my old Macbook either


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 19, 2021)

Gerry1time said:


> Doesn't look like it's backwards compatible with my old Macbook either


No surprise really. It's the way of the Apple.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 20, 2021)

I was looking at laptops last night as I’m in the market for something a bit more grunty and want a 4K screen now I’m doing a bit more video editing with my drone footage. Prices are ridiculous across the board, to the point the MacBook Pro’s actually look reasonably priced. I’m considering one, but I think I’ll wait for a few reviews to drop first.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 20, 2021)

The new MacBook Pro looks positive. I do want a mag safe and I do want sd cards and HDMI
Slightly fucked off the USBs are are the new one same with the thunderbolts. 

I currently use my 2015 MacBook Pro with a thunderbolt monitor from the same period. It's the perfect set up for me a the moment. It's so handy being able to dock my laptop and use it as a second screen that is separate from the large monitor. I would be happy just buying the same thing again if something breaks. I assume the new MacBook won't work with the thunderbolt monitor? Even with a thunderbolt adaptor? 
Is there even a thunderbolt monitor alternative? 

Like I say, nothing wrong with what I have now, but one day they are both going to quit on me, and at some point they are not going to be supported with OS updates. 


One more question. Does the new MacBook Pro come with that shitty Big Sur?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 20, 2021)

They’ll come with whatever is the latest version of the OS.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 20, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I assume the new MacBook won't work with the thunderbolt monitor? Even with a thunderbolt adaptor?
> Is there even a thunderbolt monitor alternative?


What's the reason you think it won't work?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2021)

I always thought getting rid of magsafe was a backwards move, so I'm glad it's now back. I can't tell you the number of times it has been useful in preventing a tripping/yanking situation over the years. My hesitation in upgrading since they removed it certainly had that in mind.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 20, 2021)

teuchter said:


> What's the reason you think it won't work?


Thunderbolt 2 monitor Thunderbolt three laptop. Specs for the monitor that date back to 2015.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 20, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> I always thought getting rid of magsafe was a backwards move, so I'm glad it's now back. I can't tell you the number of times it has been useful in preventing a tripping/yanking situation over the years. My hesitation in upgrading since they removed it certainly had that in mind.


Oh and that stupid shit changeable taskbar thing. That's gone. Real keys are back. 
They have been something to avoid since 2015 IMO.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 20, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Thunderbolt 2 monitor Thunderbolt three laptop. Specs for the monitor that date back to 2015.


It's still compatible with the new machines. You can use a dongle Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter (or a cheaper 3rd party equivalent)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 20, 2021)

Crispy said:


> It's still compatible with the new machines. You can use a dongle Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter (or a cheaper 3rd party equivalent)


Well that's good news at least. . . .but hopefully my 2015 lappy will still serve me for a while yet. I'd have to buy a few of those dongles for thunderbolt drives and USBs. Annoying.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh and that stupid shit changeable taskbar thing. That's gone. Real keys are back.
> They have been something to avoid since 2015 IMO.



yep, hated that too. It should be obvious to anyone that people want basic function keys like ESC to be in the same place at all times without having to look and check if they were available.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 20, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Peak apple
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Briefly tempted by this but then I realised it will come with the latest Mac OS preloaded. For polishing, I prefer to stick with windows.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They’ll come with whatever is the latest version of the OS.



In this case it will be Monterey which is out next Monday.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Oct 20, 2021)

elbows said:


> In this case it will be Monterey which is out next Monday.


FFS, I haven't got used to Big Sur yet


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 20, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> yep, hated that too. It should be obvious to anyone that people want basic function keys like ESC to be in the same place at all times without having to look and check if they were available.


I want a solid work horse that 'works'. I don't give a shit if it's 3mm thinner. Get a fucking air book.
I also don't like all these changing thunderbolt sizes, but I guess that was inevitable. There does need to be a one plug for all . . . and am I right in saying usb, usb3 and thunderbolt etc all have the same hole now?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 20, 2021)

Throbbing Angel said:


> FFS, I haven't got used to Big Sur yet


Big Sur looked horrible so I avoided it. 
Looks like a flipping phone. I don't want my laptop to look like a cross between windows and and a phone.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Peak apple
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For the stupidest of cash rich mugs.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Oct 20, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Big Sur looked horrible so I avoided it.
> Looks like a flipping phone. I don't want my laptop to look like a cross between windows and and a phone.


This is my first Mac (M1 MacBook Air) and it came with BS installed. So I had no choice.
 I quite like it as it seems similar to my iPad so was less scary than I had anticipated having mainly used DOS based and Windows machines for thirty years prior.

I'm unsure how the OS iterations work on Macs. Do I have to install Monterey? Or is that a choice and Big Sur will keep being updated, get security updates etc.?


----------



## teqniq (Oct 20, 2021)

Throbbing Angel said:


> This is my first Mac (M1 MacBook Air) and it came with BS installed. So I had no choice.
> I quite like it as it seems similar to my iPad so was less scary than I had anticipated having mainly used DOS based and Windows machines for thirty years prior.
> 
> I'm unsure how the OS iterations work on Macs. Do I have to install Monterey? Or is that a choice and Big Sur will keep being updated, get security updates etc.?


It'll get updates so long as it's supported, which won't be that long actually.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 20, 2021)

Throbbing Angel said:


> This is my first Mac (M1 MacBook Air) and it came with BS installed. So I had no choice.
> I quite like it as it seems similar to my iPad so was less scary than I had anticipated having mainly used DOS based and Windows machines for thirty years prior.
> 
> I'm unsure how the OS iterations work on Macs. Do I have to install Monterey? Or is that a choice and Big Sur will keep being updated, get security updates etc.?


That's exactly why I don't want Big Sur. I hate the ipad interface. Why on earth they want proper work computers to resemble ipads? Same with all the other daft changes since 2015.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 20, 2021)

teqniq said:


> It'll get updates so long as it's supported, which won't be that long actually.


3 years seems be the usual. 
10.14 - Mojave - released Sept 2018 - will end support when Monterey comes out.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> That's exactly why I don't want Big Sur. I hate the ipad interface. Why on earth they want proper work computers to resemble ipads? Same with all the other daft changes since 2015.



For me the visual changes to Big Sur were still quite superficial and I barely noticed the difference other than finding some things slightly better looking - it certainly still feels to me like using a mac, not using an ipad.

Changes to Safari recently are a more jarring example of a change because they messed around with tabs and the upper region of the browser. But so far I've experienced this via a Safari update on Big Sur, and apparently they've been making further changes to Safari recently on Monterey in the beta releases of that new OS, so hopefully they've uturned on some of the botched changes to Safari.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 20, 2021)

By all reports (ie. me listening to Accidental Tech Podcast) a whole bunch of the Safari changes have been walked back..

If my work software wasn't 100% wintel, I'd be all over these new macs. The performance is just wild.


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2021)

Crispy said:


> If my work software wasn't 100% wintel, I'd be all over these new macs. The performance is just wild.



When I review my feelings during my 38 years with computers, I never really loved windows or x86 type architecture. So its only really in the last 11 months that I've felt like I escaped both of those without having to make too many different compromises. Well there was a brief powerpc period when I first switched to macs, but that stuff was already relatively underpowered at the time and rapidly falling into oblivion.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 21, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> That's exactly why I don't want Big Sur. I hate the ipad interface. Why on earth they want proper work computers to resemble ipads? Same with all the other daft changes since 2015.


I've used macs for 20 years, am currently on Big Sur and don't feel it's significantly different from any previous version of MacOS or OSX. Everything basically works the same as it has for ages. I still feel very much I'm on a mac and not an iPad.

In fact I moved semi-directly from El Capitan to Big Sur and didn't really think it was a big jump in terms of how things work and feel.


----------



## elbows (Oct 25, 2021)

Crispy said:


> The performance is just wild.



Nerdy performance details review, wibble!









						Apple's M1 Pro, M1 Max SoCs Investigated: New Performance and Efficiency Heights
					






					www.anandtech.com


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 26, 2021)

Just picked up the Airpods 3 and very impressed with the sound and look. I tested out with various music and some radio 4 and I'd certainly say it's improvement on the originals. The shorter stems are very welcome, as are the fact they don't have those horrid silicone tips which I hate.

The one thing that'll take some getting used to is the force sensors in the tips. I've been so used to the double tap on the original airpods I'll take some adjustment to get used to squeezing them, but at least it gives the option to now play/pause, go back, and advance.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 3, 2021)

Just figured out how to switch on the spatial audio on the airpods. I quite like it. The general setting that is, not the one where it tracks your head and then mimics being in front of speakers.


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2021)

elbows said:


> A lot of these hacks are highly targeted, political stuff. And targets of interest to intelligence services etc will have been using Apple devices for a long time already, this isnt a new phenomenon, but it gets more attention these days.
> 
> eg:
> 
> ...


Apple have gone after them!









						Apple Aims to Cut Down on Spyware With Lawsuit Against NSO Group
					

Apple today announced that it has filed a lawsuit against Israeli firm NSO Group and its parent company with the aim of holding it accountable for...




					www.macrumors.com
				






> In the lawsuit, Apple offers up information on how NSO Group infiltrated the devices of iPhone owners and how it utilized the Pegasus spyware to do so. Apple is asking for a permanent injunction that would ban NSO Group from using Apple software, services, or devices.





> "State-sponsored actors like the NSO Group spend millions of dollars on sophisticated surveillance technologies without effective accountability. That needs to change," said Craig Federighi, Apple's senior vice president of Software Engineering. "Apple devices are the most secure consumer hardware on the market -- but private companies developing state-sponsored spyware have become even more dangerous. While these cybersecurity threats only impact a very small number of our customers, we take any attack on our users very seriously, and we're constantly working to strengthen the security and privacy protections in iOS to keep all our users safe."


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Nov 23, 2021)

Had anyone tried the current HomePod Minis? I’m tempted to buy a couple for a small flat and get rid of the stereo my dad bought about 20 years ago…but then there is the problem if what to do with the CDs.


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 24, 2021)

elbows said:


> Apple have gone after them!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does this have anything more than symbolic value? Even if Apple are successful and that injunction is granted against NSO group, for sure a “new” company would suddenly pop up and start doing exactly the same. OSN group anyone?

If they are really “state sponsored” they will do what they’re doing without being deterred by an Apple lawsuit, so is this actually about generating some positive PR for Apple?  They would do better to spend their cash on improving their software engineering and pen testing so these vulnerabilities don’t exist in released versions of iOS.


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2021)

Yes privacy is a big part of their marketing these days and there have certainly been deficiencies with their response to security bug reporting & patching in the past. But at least they are raising some awareness of state-sponsored hacking and I am amused about the billions that other tech giants are saying has been wiped off their earnings as a result of anti-tracking stuff Apple keep adding to their offerings these days.

They do seem to have a focus on informing users too, including victims of known NSO shit and more general password leak issues and users reuse of passwords.









						Apple Outlines How It Will Notify Users Who Have Been Targeted by State-Sponsored Spyware Attacks
					

Earlier today, Apple announced that it had filed suit against NSO Group, the firm responsible for the Pegasus spyware that has been used in...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## cybershot (Nov 24, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Had anyone tried the current HomePod Minis? I’m tempted to buy a couple for a small flat and get rid of the stereo my dad bought about 20 years ago…but then there is the problem if what to do with the CDs.



I've got one in the bedroom, it's ok, nothing mind blowing. Not a patch on the original big HomePod I have in the lounge which is absoutely superb. I wish they had just reduced the price to shift more and kept making them, it will be a sad day when they finally drop support for it.

The downside is, you can only talk to Siri to play music from Apple Music, so if you prefer Spotify, you need to use another device to control the music to the HomePod. Plus when you airplay, it seems to totally  drain your phone battery.

Ironically Spotify moaned liked bitches about it, Apple then said 'ok, go ahead and do it, we're cool with it' and their response was 'ah yeah, we ain't gonna work on that anytime soon' 

dicks.


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2021)

Yeah I've only tried the mini and was not blown away by the audio quality, and I'm quite far from being a proper audiophile. I suppose it was OK, but I prefer the speakers on the latest macbook pros which did surprise me in a good way, albeit with a very high price for the total package which is obviously about far more than speakers.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 4, 2022)

I’ve been saving for a new watch and iPad, and took the plunge today after testing positive for covid and feeling sorry for myself. I’m replacing an apple iPad Air 1 and an Apple Watch 3, neither of which owe me anything, I can’t even do software upgrades anymore.

I kind of want an Apple Pencil too so may try and get a second hand one off eBay.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 5, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Just picked up the Airpods 3 and very impressed with the sound and look. I tested out with various music and some radio 4 and I'd certainly say it's improvement on the originals. The shorter stems are very welcome, as are the fact they don't have those horrid silicone tips which I hate.
> 
> The one thing that'll take some getting used to is the force sensors in the tips. I've been so used to the double tap on the original airpods I'll take some adjustment to get used to squeezing them, but at least it gives the option to now play/pause, go back, and advance.


I’ve been looking at some refurbished AirPod pros for 79.99 but even at that price it seems expensive for what are really just Bluetooth headphones


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 5, 2022)

sim667 said:


> I’ve been looking at some refurbished AirPod pros for 79.99 but even at that price it seems expensive for what are really just Bluetooth headphones



£79.99 isn’t bad considering what they retail for new. Sure they are on the expensive side and I won’t argue that there aren’t better value airpod like earphones out there. But for me it’s about familiarity, seamless compatibility across apple devices, and the hard plastic ends of the regular AirPods just suit my ears better (I can’t get on with anything that has those rubbery tips so the pros are out for me anyway along with dozens of other high end equivalents).


----------



## sim667 (Jan 5, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> £79.99 isn’t bad considering what they retail for new. Sure they are on the expensive side and I won’t argue that there aren’t better value airpod like earphones out there. But for me it’s about familiarity, seamless compatibility across apple devices, and the hard plastic ends of the regular AirPods just suit my ears better (I can’t get on with anything that has those rubbery tips so the pros are out for me anyway along with dozens of other high end equivalents).


Yeah I just can’t get down with hard plastic ones.

I’m watching some on eBay, no one’s bidding on them as he says they’re not pairing, so just before it ends I might make a low ball effort and just hope that if he accepts it he just can’t work out how to pair them rather than a hardware problem 😂

There’s these at well, but I’m not convinced I trust them 🤔









						Apple AirPods Pro - White for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Apple AirPods Pro - White at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!



					www.ebay.co.uk


----------



## cybershot (Jan 5, 2022)

I love my Airpod Pros, but I don't use them nearly enough. I brought them about a month before Covid hit and I've hardly used the trains since. I see the new 'regular' Airpods have a similar design to the Pros now.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 6, 2022)

AirPods are over now anyway. All the cool kids are going back to wired headphones.









						Are AirPods Out? Why Cool Kids Are Wearing Wired Headphones
					

The humble ‘retro’ corded headphone is making an unexpected return, for both aesthetic and practical reasons.




					www.wsj.com


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2022)

I personally like bluetooth phones. I mostly use them when running, and cords wear out over time with all the jiggling about.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 6, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I personally like bluetooth phones. I mostly use them when running, and cords wear out over time with all the jiggling about.



I do as well. Tell you what I'm not doing though is running with super expensive one. I'd worry one would fall out in a canal. 

I quite like the Anker/ToaTronics ones for about £25 that have a cable between then. If one fall out I don't loose it and if I don't want to listen to music I can clip them together.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 6, 2022)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I quite like the Anker/ToaTronics ones for about £25 that have a cable between then. If one fall out I don't loose it and if I don't want to listen to music I can clip them together.


Me too, though I have some cheapish Mpow.  I put the connecting wire through the peg loop on my running back pack thing too so that they are not going anywhere. Having said that, I don't think they have ever actually fallen out. They do have those over ear things though, and though they don't actually sit on the ears, I wear sunglasses (on top of my head) and the arms lock them in place.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 6, 2022)

New iPad and Watch turned up…… my god the speed of them is incredible 😂😂


----------



## platinumsage (Jan 6, 2022)

sim667 said:


> New iPad and Watch turned up…… my god the speed of them is incredible 😂😂



Not much point having a fast watch is there?


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Not much point having a fast watch is there?


it’s doing better than the clock in my car, on 2/1/22 all MK3 CRV OEM satnav head units reset to 01:00 and now reset to that time every time you turn the vehicle off and on again 😂😂


----------



## 2hats (Jan 7, 2022)

sim667 said:


> it’s doing better than the clock in my car, on 2/1/22 all MK3 CRV OEM satnav head units reset to 01:00 and now reset to that time every time you turn the vehicle off and on again 😂😂


Perhaps clobbered by carelessly storing a YYMMDDHHMM date as a 32 bit long int instead of a dedicated data type? (A screw-up that bit MS Exchange this past week - Linux/macOS/Unix use a 64 bit long int model; MS chose a LLP64 model because 32 bit legacy code).








						Microsoft Exchange year 2022 bug in FIP-FS breaks email delivery
					

Microsoft Exchange on-premise servers cannot deliver email starting on January 1st, 2022, due to a "Year 2022" bug in the FIP-FS anti-malware scanning engine.




					www.bleepingcomputer.com


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2022)

2hats said:


> Perhaps clobbered by carelessly storing a YYMMDDHHMM date as a 32 bit long int instead of a dedicated data type? (A screw-up that bit MS Exchange this past week - Linux/macOS/Unix use a 64 bit long int model; MS chose a LLP64 model because 32 bit legacy code).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that’s correct yeah 😂😂


----------



## sim667 (Jan 11, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> £79.99 isn’t bad considering what they retail for new. Sure they are on the expensive side and I won’t argue that there aren’t better value airpod like earphones out there. But for me it’s about familiarity, seamless compatibility across apple devices, and the hard plastic ends of the regular AirPods just suit my ears better (I can’t get on with anything that has those rubbery tips so the pros are out for me anyway along with dozens of other high end equivalents).


I’m still looking around although I’m a bit nervous about buying refurbs now as there seems to be an incredible amount of fakes doing the rounds.

John Lewis are currently selling new airpod pros for £189.99 which I’m really tempted by if I can sell my old Apple Watch quickly.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 11, 2022)

sim667 said:


> I’m still looking around although I’m a bit nervous about buying refurbs now as there seems to be an incredible amount of fakes doing the rounds.
> 
> John Lewis are currently selling new airpod pros for £189.99 which I’m really tempted by if I can sell my old Apple Watch quickly.



Rumour has it there will be new airpod pro 2’s out this year so it may be worth holding out - plenty of hints that they will also come with ultra wideband connectivity too which should be an improvement on Bluetooth.

Depends how desperately you want them though obvs.


----------



## spitfire (Jan 11, 2022)

This can be useful although they do state: "This page is based on rumors and speculation and we provide no guarantee to its accuracy."

So YMMV. 










						MacRumors Buyer's Guide: Know When to Buy iPhone, Mac, iPad
					

This page provides a product summary for each Apple model. The intent is to provide our best recommendations regarding current product cycles, and to provide a summary of currently available rumors for each model. This page is based on rumors and speculation and we provide no guarantee to its...




					buyersguide.macrumors.com
				




edit: though nothing about airpods, sorry.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 11, 2022)

Ok I might have just worked myself into a frenzy and bought some off eBay which were an “unwanted gift” apparently.


----------



## elbows (Jan 11, 2022)

spitfire said:


> This can be useful although they do state: "This page is based on rumors and speculation and we provide no guarantee to its accuracy."
> 
> So YMMV.
> 
> ...



Their main site does cover the latest airpod rumours and new though, eg this from last Friday:









						AirPods Pro 2 to Launch Later This Year as Suppliers Reportedly Prepare Shipments
					

The second-generation AirPods Pro are widely expected to launch in the second half of this year. In preparation for the launch, Apple's suppliers...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## sim667 (Jan 15, 2022)

So my eBay bargain AirPods Pro turned up and despite being very convincing, they’re fake……. Can tell by software issues (transparent and noise cancelling doesn’t make a difference and the firmware number is listed as a firmware apple have never released). EBay seller has accepted I want my money back, but claims theyre from John Lewis.

im considering buying some tomorrow when I go to London, but wanted to get them from John Lewis as they’re £189 as opposed to £239 at apple, however am I mugging myself off if I don’t wait and see what the new ones are like?


----------



## cybershot (Jan 28, 2022)

Can't see me installing beta's for this, but I think I'll probably end up using it. I do love how all the handoff stuff with other Apple kit works with the Mac. I wish I'd made the move years ago now.







__





						Universal Control was worth the wait – here's how it's changing the way I work
					

Universal Control is here and is equally as impressive as its original WWDC demo. Here's how it works for Mac and iPad.




					9to5mac.com


----------



## sim667 (Feb 1, 2022)

I want it. But it would also mean updating my MacBook which will probably break all my software 😂😂


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2022)

The 7 biggest announcements from Apple’s Peek Performance event
					

Apple’s new M1 Ultra, Mac Studio, iPhone SE 5G, and more




					www.theverge.com
				




Seriously impressive looking hardware for those professionals that need it…


----------



## MrCurry (Mar 9, 2022)

I’m impressed with the new iPhone SE. Same processor as an iPhone 13 while being cheapest phone in the whole range. Since it’s the chip speed which generally determines the useful life (ie. how long before it won’t run the software), that looks like being a long lived iPhone at least cost per year of service life. 

Ok, iPhone 11 has bigger screen, better cameras and face ID versus Touch ID, but for me the A15 chip in the SE wins the argument over an A13. How many extra years of useful life will two generations of processor add? 3? 4? Maybe I’m overestimating the importance, I don’t know.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 9, 2022)

The "Mac Studio" looks like the most interesting new development there.


----------



## elbows (Mar 9, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The "Mac Studio" looks like the most interesting new development there.



I was quite happy that its so expensive I cannot possibly justify getting one unless I actually start to make money from my professional use of such machines. Having twice the GPU power of the M1 Max macbook pros would be extremely useful to me, but that version of the Studio starts at £4999 !


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Mar 9, 2022)

elbows said:


> I was quite happy that its so expensive I cannot possibly justify getting one unless I actually start to make money from my professional use of such machines. Having twice the GPU power of the M1 Max macbook pros would be extremely useful to me, but that version of the Studio starts at £4999 !


I'm rather relieved there's not a new 13" MacBook Pro...I could do with an upgrade but I can't afford one. At least that's not an option this time around. I can resist everything except temptation.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 9, 2022)

elbows said:


> I was quite happy that its so expensive I cannot possibly justify getting one unless I actually start to make money from my professional use of such machines. Having twice the GPU power of the M1 Max macbook pros would be extremely useful to me, but that version of the Studio starts at £4999 !


In my mind they are something that I might buy secondhand 2 or 3 years from now.


----------



## elbows (Mar 9, 2022)

teuchter said:


> In my mind they are something that I might buy secondhand 2 or 3 years from now.



The situation with inflation, energy prices etc means I'm increasingly having to throw away my traditional expectations about future secondhand prices.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 29, 2022)

Been noticing a crackling sound in my left airpod pro for a while. I put it down to the fact it’s usually windy to a degree but then thought it never used to be this bad so either it’s my weird hearing (tinnitus sufferer) or I’ve done something to cause it. 

Anyway turns out it’s a hardware fault with some made before October 2020 after eventually googling it. 🤦‍♂️

Went apple store and 10 minutes later walk out with new ones (but keep my existing charging case)

Again can’t fault apple when it comes to support. These are over two years old and they just swap them no quibbles.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 6, 2022)

New M2 MacBook Air looks rather lovely. And Magsafe is back, thank fuck.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jun 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> New M2 MacBook Air looks rather lovely. And Magsafe is back, thank fuck.


How many USB ports? 2 is a pain in the ass. I’m wanting to update my ‘18 pro, but not unless I plug more stuff in at once. The 16” is way more than I need


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 6, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> How many USB ports? 2 is a pain in the ass. I’m wanting to update my ‘18 pro, but not unless I plug more stuff in at once. The 16” is way more than I need


I think if you need more than 2 then the Air isn't the machine for you.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jun 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think if you need more than 2 then the Air isn't the machine for you.


I know..I work a lot without reliable Wi-Fi, so I need a LAN connection…there is the power…then….? I have an adapter thing, but that’s got a couple of USB-Bs, and HTMI, an SD card reader and only one USB-C…and it plugs into the two USB-Cs on the machine. I probably need to change it…it just seems crazy to trade up in power and size ONLY to get another couple of ports. The 13” air and pro seem to be about indistinguishable.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 6, 2022)

pseudonarcissus said:


> I know..I work a lot without reliable Wi-Fi, so I need a LAN connection…there is the power…then….? I have an adapter thing, but that’s got a couple of USB-Bs, and HTMI, an SD card reader and only one USB-C…and it plugs into the two USB-Cs on the machine. I probably need to change it…it just seems crazy to trade up in power and size ONLY to get another couple of ports. The 13” air and pro seem to be about indistinguishable.


Most people that need a bunch of ports just seem to buy a dock of some kind. It's not ideal but I guess it's the trade off for having something so light and thin. The future is wireless, allegedly...


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jun 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Most people that need a bunch of ports just seem to buy a dock of some kind. It's not ideal but I guess it's the trade off for having something so light and thin. The future is wireless, allegedly...


I just didn't buy a big enough dock, I guess.

Looking at the pictures, it's now MagSafe plus the 2x USBs, so it's an improvement


----------



## cybershot (Jun 6, 2022)

Biggest points  of note for us older device owners:

iOS 16 will support from iPhone 8 onwards. Bye 6S, you've had a nice run though.

Watch OS 9 support Series 4 onwards.

iPadOS 16 will work on iPad (5th generation and later), iPad mini (5th generation and later), iPad Air (3rd generation and later), and all iPad Pro models

MacOS 13 Ventura is perhaps the biggest shocker, only supporting devices from released 2017 and newer. 6 year old Macs won't be getting the latest OS.









						Apple WWDC 2022: the 16 biggest announcements
					

Here’s everything that went down at WWDC.




					www.theverge.com
				





beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think if you need more than 2 then the Air isn't the machine for you.


2 USB C and an additional one on the power brick. (edit: the one on the brick is used for charging additional devices only)









						Apple’s tiny charger for the new MacBook Air has an extra USB-C port
					

More charging flexibility.




					www.theverge.com
				












						Hands-on with the new, more colorful, M2-powered MacBook Air
					

No more wedge.




					www.theverge.com


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jun 6, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Biggest points  of note for us older device owners:
> 
> iOS 16 will support from iPhone 8 onwards. Bye 6S, you've had a nice run though.
> 
> ...


On the cheap MacBook Air, you can double the storage for $200. I don't think you could do that before. So actually there is more incremental pricing. 

They seem to be offering $240 trade in on my old Pro...maybe I will see if I can get a trip to the USA later in the year.


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## elbows (Jun 6, 2022)

cybershot said:


> MacOS 13 Ventura is perhaps the biggest shocker, only supporting devices from released 2017 and newer. 6 year old Macs won't be getting the latest OS.


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2022)

I havent actually got a Mac of that vintage, I just wanted to make a bad Jesse Ventura joke.


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## Throbbing Angel (Jun 7, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> New M2 MacBook Air looks rather lovely. And Magsafe is back, thank fuck.


£250 price jump making the base M2 model 13.6"  Air only £100 less than the 13" M2 Pro 

Is £1249 'entry level'?🤷‍♂️


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## teuchter (Jun 7, 2022)

> Apple says the new M2 chip delivers an 18 percent performance upgrade when compared to the M1.



Although this number may be somewhat pulled out of the air ... I'm quite pleased it isn't larger.

Hopefully upgrade fanatics will move from M1 to M2 and I can buy a second hand M1 from one of them without worrying that I'm missing out on some kind of order-of-magnitudes performance improvement.


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## skyscraper101 (Jun 7, 2022)

I love my M1 air. I won't upgrading as its only 6 months old but this is certainly a great improvement for those in the market for a new machine. Magsafe, again, finally! (why did they ever get rid??) and at long last a 1080p webcam. These are both long overdue upgrades.

The lack of ports did irk me at first, but I've just learned to live with a dock if I need USB-A or something. Most of them time I don't need it at all.


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## Chz (Jun 7, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Biggest points  of note for us older device owners:
> 
> iOS 16 will support from iPhone 8 onwards. Bye 6S, you've had a nice run though.
> 
> ...


It's worse than that on the support front. Trash can Mac Pro was sold up 'til 2019 and isn't supported.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 7, 2022)

I’m still using a mid 2012 Air. Really is time to upgrade, the new Air looks perfect for my current needs. I work at a uni, so hopefully can get an education discount on the price which should bring it just about into affordable territory for me. 

(In terms of value my current Air has cost me less than £100/year, really can’t argue with that)


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## cybershot (Jun 7, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’m still using a mid 2012 Air. Really is time to upgrade, the new Air looks perfect for my current needs. I work at a uni, so hopefully can get an education discount on the price which should bring it just about into affordable territory for me.
> 
> (In terms of value my current Air has cost me less than £100/year, really can’t argue with that)



No hopefully about it, you can. 10% off. Either via Unidays or I 'think' they will accept your Uni ID badge in the actual store. Take other ID too.


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## Lazy Llama (Jun 7, 2022)

cybershot said:


> No hopefully about it, you can. 10% off. Either via Unidays or I 'think' they will accept your Uni ID badge in the actual store.


also theEDUstore - Exclusive savings on Apple products for University students and staff if you have an academic email address.


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Although this number may be somewhat pulled out of the air ... I'm quite pleased it isn't larger.
> 
> Hopefully upgrade fanatics will move from M1 to M2 and I can buy a second hand M1 from one of them without worrying that I'm missing out on some kind of order-of-magnitudes performance improvement.


Yes, and I dont think there is anything inherent to Apples chip designs that would enable more significant generational leaps in overall performance. The biggest gains were at the start, in comparison to other inefficient designs by other companies, especially when viewed via the power/efficiency/heat angle.

To get a more notable leap between generations than seen this time, a move to a smaller nm fabrication process would be required. And such a move for the M chips was delayed this time for practical manufacturing reasons, so the performance increases werent as large as some fo the hype sites originally anticipated months ago. The other way to really leap in performance is via significant increase in number of CPU and GPU cores, but the practicalities of such a move are related to all the power/heat/nm process stuff I already mentioned.

Within those confines its still possible to see larger leaps in highly specific tasks, if such tasks are heavily reliant on stuff they have tweaked such as memory bandwidth, cache sizes, or notable improvements to some of the other parts of their chips like the media encoders and neural engine.

The GPU is where my own interests in greater performance lurk, and so for me yesterdays announcements were less about hardware improvements and more about the resolution upscaling stuff they've added to Metal in version 3. And this is basically Apple playing catchup with what Nvidia and AMD have managed with such upscaling tech in recent years, stuff that has helped better balance framerate with resolution and visual quality. Its a good thing they came up/copied each other with this technique because even with improved GPU performance over time, it was hard to scale GPU performance up to the levels necessary to cope with the sort of resolutions people are using these days. And I remain disgusted by the amount of watts that top end GPUs on Windows and Linux are using these days.


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## nick (Jun 8, 2022)

cybershot said:


> No hopefully about it, you can. 10% off. Either via Unidays or I 'think' they will accept your Uni ID badge in the actual store. Take other ID too.


So here is a removal of the "think"
I just ordered an iPad Air 
Entered son's school email address and went to the edu store:
Ipad went from 719 to 675 (6% off) 
Pencil went from 119 to 106 (11% off)
cover was unchanged at £79
Didn't actually have to "use" his email address - except to get Unidays to send it a validation email (not even sure if he clicked on it) 

I imagine (remember?) that there are different levels of discount dependent on whether you are school, Uni, student. teacher or whatever) - but the above was good enough for me - since I was going to buy them anyway, so didn't do much research


FWIW this was to replace an Air 2, which has a pretty dead battery and now runs too slowly to be fun.  I got in Dec 14. IMHO a 7.5 year lifespan is pretty good for tech


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 28, 2022)

For anyone who has upgraded to Ventura, Safari finally supports push notifications so you can turn on desktop notifications for Urban75 etc.
See https://www.urban75.net/forums/account/preferences for the setting to Enable Push Notifications


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## redsquirrel (Oct 28, 2022)

Lazy Llama said:


> For anyone who has upgraded to Ventura, Safari finally supports push notifications so you can turn on desktop notifications for Urban75 etc.
> See https://www.urban75.net/forums/account/preferences for the setting to Enable Push Notifications


Not sure I'm keen on that, too many notifications already - but thanks for the heads up LL.

What's your (or anyone else?) impression of Ventura aside from that?


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## 2hats (Oct 28, 2022)

Broke my golden rule (never adopt until at least a minor .2/.3 release) - running 13.0 on Apple M2 hardware (fresh install, not an upgrade from any previous version) - it seems pretty stable; for a dot-zero release not too bad. Quirky, but then Apple always rearranges the furniture between major releases and one has to figure out how to put (most of it) back. Seems to largely work, though a few niggling bugs - some irritating issues with external displays but usable (others have reported them not working at all), screen locking configuration appears buggy, had to hoop jump to migrate calendars/contacts (but that's more down to my _unique_ workflows and wanting to perform a clean install as oppose to an upgrade‡). Not encountered any obvious userspace software issues but then 90-something percent of what I use is open source so native compiled; the little third party commercial software I am using all runs fine. Hopefully it will be pretty much polished by 13.2 (after they fix the things they break in 13.1 whilst trying to fix 13.0).

‡ Always best, IMHO, to install afresh rather than upgrade. Leaves less surprise turds in the filesystem to trip up on (unlikely to have been identified by the vendor plus provides a known clean baseline for bug reporting) and presents the opportunity to spring clean and bin/archive a lot of historic cruft.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 28, 2022)

Lazy Llama said:


> For anyone who has upgraded to Ventura, Safari finally supports push notifications so you can turn on desktop notifications for Urban75 etc.
> See https://www.urban75.net/forums/account/preferences for the setting to Enable Push Notifications


What is a 'push notification'. The word 'notification' sounds like it might be annoying, and 'push' makes it sound even worse.


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## teuchter (Oct 28, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What is a 'push notification'. The word 'notification' sounds like it might be annoying, and 'push' makes it sound even worse.


I think it means you get pinged each time anyone posts nonsense on urban75 even if you're looking at some other bit of the internet at the time.


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## teuchter (Oct 28, 2022)

2hats said:


> Seems to largely work, though a few niggling bugs - some irritating issues with external displays but usable (others have reported them not working at all),


Monterey has been sketchy with external displays all the way through ... With things getting half fixed at certain intermediate releases and then getting half broken again at the next one.


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 28, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What is a 'push notification'. The word 'notification' sounds like it might be annoying, and 'push' makes it sound even worse.


As teuchter says, it uses the built-in MacOS notification system - which pops up bubbles on the right of the screen by default when a programme wants to tell you about something- this can do it when you get a reply, a mention, a new conversation message, a post to a thread you’re subscribed to etc. lots of options in the settings on the boards so each user can select.

Previously you might have it set to send you an email for example, this is more immediate and appears on your screen.


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 28, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Not sure I'm keen on that, too many notifications already - but thanks for the heads up LL.
> 
> What's your (or anyone else?) impression of Ventura aside from that?


I quite like Ventura - installed it on an M1 Mini - my work MacBook Pro won’t allow me to install it and my 2016 MacBook won’t support it. 
Stage Manager works well, though I’ve not played enough with it to see if there’s anything but “this app is on this screen, other apps are icons at the side” to it. 

Apart from that, the settings panel is different but nothing earth-shatteringly exciting.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 28, 2022)

Lazy Llama said:


> As teuchter says, it uses the built-in MacOS notification system - which pops up bubbles on the right of the screen by default when a programme wants to tell you about something- this can do it when you get a reply, a mention, a new conversation message, a post to a thread you’re subscribed to etc. lots of options in the settings on the boards so each user can select.
> 
> Previously you might have it set to send you an email for example, this is more immediate and appears on your screen.


Oh goodness no, I don't want that. . . in fact that sounds like all of those annoying messages I get on my phone and watch about you tube videos, facebook shit  and tweets etc I couldn't give a shit about. How do I get rid of them?


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## Lazy Llama (Oct 28, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh goodness no, I don't want that. . . in fact that sounds like all of those annoying messages I get on my phone and watch about you tube videos, facebook shit  and tweets etc I couldn't give a shit about. How do I get rid of them?


Turn off notification in settings on phone or watch. If it’s Apple gear, all notifications can be disabled controlled in Settings > Notifications


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 29, 2022)

Lazy Llama said:


> Turn off notification in settings on phone or watch. If it’s Apple gear, all notifications can be disabled controlled in Settings > Notifications


Thank you. It's not apple, just android phone. Sometimes they just start happening even though I have had the apps for ages. Facebook has been on my phone for at least a year, but only recently it constantly wants to tell me about friend requests . . . (but not every one, it seems slightly random). You tube too, it came with my phone. In the last few months I get endless notifications for things it thinks I might like to watch. 

Olio is new on my phone, but only seems to inform me of new items after they are gone. . . on top of all these alerts, my phone seems to have a delay and filter as to what it decides to tell my Garmin. I wish there was some solid logic to it. Or maybe just a setting I chose to switch on, rather than settings I have to find and switch off.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 29, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Thank you. It's not apple, just android phone. Sometimes they just start happening even though I have had the apps for ages. Facebook has been on my phone for at least a year, but only recently it constantly wants to tell me about friend requests . . . (but not every one, it seems slightly random). You tube too, it came with my phone. In the last few months I get endless notifications for things it thinks I might like to watch.
> 
> Olio is new on my phone, but only seems to inform me of new items after they are gone. . . on top of all these alerts, my phone seems to have a delay and filter as to what it decides to tell my Garmin. I wish there was some solid logic to it. Or maybe just a setting I chose to switch on, rather than settings I have to find and switch off.



It's possible that the app updated, so old settings were over riddled. I get it's fustrating but it's only a couple of clicks to turn them all off.


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## redsquirrel (Oct 30, 2022)

Updated to Ventura on my MacBook Pro, mostly for the schedule send feature on Mail which is something that I've been wanting for years. Apart from that I've not really noticed many changes.

Except that the battery seems to get hotter? Anyone else noticed similar? I'm not sure if it is part of the 'optimising performance' process, just mi imagination or what?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 30, 2022)

.


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## danski (Oct 30, 2022)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Hitting another flag ship seems quite a big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wrong thread?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 30, 2022)

danski said:


> Wrong thread?



Yes


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## elbows (Oct 30, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> Updated to Ventura on my MacBook Pro, mostly for the schedule send feature on Mail which is something that I've been wanting for years. Apart from that I've not really noticed many changes.
> 
> Except that the battery seems to get hotter? Anyone else noticed similar? I'm not sure if it is part of the 'optimising performance' process, just mi imagination or what?


It didnt used to be unusual for the built in search feature to reindex everything after an OS upgrade, leading to a period of higher CPU etc use in the hours after installation. Whether that is still the case I cannot say but it should settle down reasonably quickly.


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## elbows (Oct 30, 2022)

It seems that I actually like the sidecar way of managing multiple windows.


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## metalguru (Oct 30, 2022)

I updated to Ventura on my 2019 iMac. What a faff ! Something was interrupting the process (Backblaze? Dropbox?) and after 3 days of frustration, I eventually had to restart in 'safe' mode to install it successfully.

But everything is running smoothly, and both Music and Safari seem more reliable and slightly faster than before, if I'm not mistaken.


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