# Star Trek: Picard [spoilers]



## cybershot (Aug 5, 2019)

Separating talk about this series out of the main Star Trek discussion thread as not everyone in that thread has Amazon Prime or other methods to access the series as it airs, so this avoids spoilers being posted in the Star Trek discussion thread, and eliminates usage of the spoiler tag in general. 

General rule of thumb, if you haven't seen the latest episode once it's started airing, don't click the thread. (as far as I'm aware this isn't an all episodes available at once jobby)

Series start date is currently just set for early 2020.

Trailer:


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## cybershot (Aug 5, 2019)

Edited.

Better article about the novels.

Star Trek: Picard Will Be Set Up By Prequel Comic & Novel


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## ruffneck23 (Aug 5, 2019)

it looks great, am really looking forward to it.


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## T & P (Aug 5, 2019)

Make it so


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## Nine Bob Note (Aug 6, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Series start date is currently just set for early 2020.



Misread that as star date 2020. Didn’t sound very appealing. Star Trek: Brexit


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## cybershot (Aug 6, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Misread that as star date 2020. Didn’t sound very appealing. Star Trek: Brexit



No doubt Britain is not a member of the United Federation of Planets either way and since currency has been abolished everywhere else the £ is thriving.


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## mwgdrwg (Aug 6, 2019)

cybershot said:


> No doubt Britain is not a member of the United Federation of Planets either way and since currency has been abolished everywhere else the £ is thriving.



Britain is Romulus. Full of angry paranoid fucks, and destined to implode.


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## Idris2002 (Aug 6, 2019)

Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


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## Ax^ (Aug 6, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> Britain is Romulus. Full of angry paranoid fucks, and destined to implode.



more like the ferengi


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## Rivendelboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Son, have you ever kissed a girl?


Engage!


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## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Engage!


were you told you were taking things far too quickly?


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## krtek a houby (Aug 7, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> Son, have you ever kissed a girl?



To boldly go etc


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## Rivendelboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Make it so!


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 7, 2019)

"Love sometimes expresses itself in sacrifice." - Kirk


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## mwgdrwg (Aug 7, 2019)

Fascinating!


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## DexterTCN (Oct 5, 2019)




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## donkyboy (Oct 5, 2019)

looks great.


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## Rivendelboy (Oct 5, 2019)

video unavailable!

Fuck the federation

Edit:


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## krtek a houby (Oct 6, 2019)

This is looking great. I had a tear in my eye after watching. Argh, can't wait until Jan!


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## editor (Oct 6, 2019)

Love a bit of Jean Luc.


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## Rivendelboy (Oct 6, 2019)

Maybe they should have waited twenty odd years, named a NASA shuttle, had an animated show, attempted a phase 2, and then used this as the movie franchise?

I'm getting a Wrath of Khan vibe. Not in terms of plot, but in terms of the characters and their age. One of the themes of that film was Kirk being old and part of the furniture and no longer in command.


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## Steel Icarus (Oct 6, 2019)

krtek a houby said:


> This is looking great. I had a tear in my eye after watching. Argh, can't wait until Jan!


Yep. I've just seen it for the first time and had a bit of a cry


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## danny la rouge (Oct 6, 2019)

I believe one can rent items as a one off from Amazon Prime? If so, I may have to do that.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 6, 2019)

I'm sold now. Love that he's retired to the vineyard. The trailer suggests Picard is not just going in for the sake of it but because he needs to be part of the machine again in order to Right a Wrong. I'll buy that. Past his salad days Riker still looks well bearded and affable.


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## trabuquera (Oct 6, 2019)

In the wee hours SyFy Channel is rerunning old eps of TNG and (while it's still not my favourite - DS9 forever!), looking back on it, it's pretty impressive how dark it was getting, how early on... Picard had some _times _there, eh? Napped and nearly assimilated by the Borg, tortured by the Cardassians ... wonder if the new series will be spending time on PTSD and its effects on the mind?


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## Tankus (Oct 6, 2019)

This... and season 4 of the Expanse with a bigger budget 

Happy days


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## Buddy Bradley (Oct 6, 2019)

trabuquera said:


> tortured by the Cardassians


That crossover episode with "Keeping Up With..." was never going to work out.


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## Steel Icarus (Oct 6, 2019)

Buddy Bradley said:


> That crossover episode with "Keeping Up With..." was never going to work out.


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## Rivendelboy (Oct 7, 2019)

I hope will wheaton's involved


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## krtek a houby (Oct 7, 2019)




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## Pickman's model (Oct 7, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> I hope will wheaton's involved


if as you suggest you admire wil wheaton i hope you manage to spell his name correctly in future


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## mwgdrwg (Oct 7, 2019)

I'm re-watching Enterprise at the moment. Hated it at the time but it's aged really well. It's better than Discovery and Voyager, which now has pride of place as my least favourite Trek.

That fucking theme tune though, what an earworm.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 7, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hated it at the time but it's aged really well.


I agree that it’s good. It’s much better than I was led to expect.


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## Idaho (Oct 7, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> Discovery and Voyager


Discovery was quite entertaining, but somehow lacked the right feel. Voyager was always crap. Too many weak characters, formula episodes and an overall arc that just wasn't that interesting.


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## T & P (Oct 7, 2019)

That final trailer is ace, very much look forward to it, and it also brought a little tear to my eye.

I wonder if Riker is still able to mount and dismount chairs in his unique way nowadays, or if his advancing age has put a stop to that...


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## Buddy Bradley (Oct 7, 2019)

T & P said:


> I wonder if Riker is still able to mount and dismount chairs in his unique way nowadays, or if his advancing age has put a stop to that...


I have a strong suspicion that the short clips of Riker that we see in the trailer are going to pretty much be his entire contribution to the new show, tbh. It's just there to get the fans excited.


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## strung out (Oct 7, 2019)

T & P said:


> That final trailer is ace, very much look forward to it, and it also brought a little tear to my eye.
> 
> I wonder if Riker is still able to mount and dismount chairs in his unique way nowadays, or if his advancing age has put a stop to that...


Interesting bit of trivia is that Riker probably always sat down on chairs like that because Jonathan Frakes had a bad back injury that caused him issues making complicated movements over and over again for each take. See this thread here: 



(If you read down, Wil Wheaton confirms it on his own Reddit account)


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## danny la rouge (Oct 8, 2019)

strung out said:


> Interesting bit of trivia is that Riker probably always sat down on chairs like that because Jonathan Frakes had a bad back injury that caused him issues making complicated movements over and over again for each take. See this thread here:
> 
> 
> 
> (If you read down, Wil Wheaton confirms it on his own Reddit account)



I’ve got a DVD extra where he confirms it himself in an interview. He has a moan about the chairs on the bridge, saying they look cool but there’s no lumbar support and he always had to sit to one side so he had back support.


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## Steel Icarus (Oct 8, 2019)

Buddy Bradley said:


> I have a strong suspicion that the short clips of Riker that we see in the trailer are going to pretty much be his entire contribution to the new show, tbh.


I bet he directs at least one episode.


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## strung out (Oct 8, 2019)

Apropos of nothing, have a picture of Jonathan Frakes when he looked like David Bowie


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## Detroit City (Oct 8, 2019)




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## cybershot (Dec 15, 2019)

Didn’t see this advertised anywhere apart from this twitter post and the London one has now passed. 

Essex, Birmingham and Manchester this week. I’ll try and report back from the brum one if I get chance. I suspect it will just be a extra long trailer in vr or some shit.


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## Don Troooomp (Dec 15, 2019)

I'm pleased to see 7 of 9 turn in for this one - I like her humour


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## cybershot (Jan 23, 2020)

If you can’t wait torrent sites, usenet iptv has the first episode as everywhere outside US gets it 24 hours later.

otherwise it’s on amazon prime here tomorrow.

i really enjoyed it. Won’t post spoilera until tomorrow, but consider this your warning because I really can’t be arsed with spoiler tags. Only click the thread from tomorrow once you’re up to date with the series.


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## steveo87 (Jan 23, 2020)

Just watched it.
Liked it.

But I'll leave it at that for now.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 23, 2020)

steveo87 said:


> Just watched it.
> Liked it.
> 
> But I'll leave it at that for now.



Same, same and same.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 23, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Won’t post spoilera until tomorrow, but consider this your warning because I really can’t be arsed with spoiler tags. Only click the thread from tomorrow once you’re up to date with the series.



I've reported your post so hopefully a mod can add [spoilers] to the thread title. Fair warning to passers-by and all that.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 24, 2020)

yes this didn't put a foot wrong as an opener. Decaff for the admiral, and is that rank new to us viewers? Last I can recall Janeway made admiral and he was still captain. As for Romulus being gone....its all new and I need to know more.  That was a borg cube at the end right? That the twin is in, whats going on there eh


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## fishfinger (Jan 24, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> yes this didn't put a foot wrong as an opener. Decaff for the admiral, and is that rank new to us viewers? Last I can recall Janeway made admiral and he was still captain. As for Romulus being gone....its all new and I need to know more.  That was a borg cube at the end right? That the twin is in, whats going on there eh





> In the reboot film, titled _Star Trek_ and released in 2009, the planet Romulus is destroyed by a supernova in the year 2387.



Romulan - Wikipedia

The Borg cube is titled "Romulan Reclamation Site" - so maybe a re-purposed Borg Cube


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## krtek a houby (Jan 24, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> yes this didn't put a foot wrong as an opener. Decaff for the admiral, and is that rank new to us viewers? Last I can recall Janeway made admiral and he was still captain. As for Romulus being gone....its all new and I need to know more.  That was a borg cube at the end right? That the twin is in, whats going on there eh



Iirc, Romulus is destroyed in the 2009 Star Trek film


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## cybershot (Jan 24, 2020)

Yeah it’s complicated timeline bollocks. When original timeline Spock tries to stop Romulus star going supernova he fails and gets whipped into the kelvin (aka Star Trek reboot films) timeline along with the films bad guy Nero.

there was a good comic book that was an official tie in called countdown (they’ve even done a countdown comic book series for this but never seen it in stock anywhere. Will probably wait for the trade paperback) butthis series potentially now makes that comic book not canon becausein that data had successfully transferred his neural net to b4.

but yeah short version. Romulus got destroyed in the proper timeline at the start of the 2009 Star Trek film.


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## ruffneck23 (Jan 24, 2020)

That was a good start


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## steveo87 (Jan 24, 2020)

Was very much _meh_ going into it and for the first few minutes - immediately starting with the Enterprise D and (initially) Data seemed like really shitty fan service.

I also got frustrated (and 'initially') that seemed to be really slow. I had worries that it would be a bit like Discovery that each episode would build towards a climax that - arguably - never came. 
But once it got started, especially the 'modern alogory' references to Brexit and the rise of the Far Right (but then again, I'm a massive smoke flake, right?), I thought it was really written and engaging. I especially liked, towards the end, where Dahj and Picard are being attack by the Romulans, that Picard gets tired whilst they're running up the building. It's a fragility that I think could have been ignored if the writers weren't brave enough.

So yeah, it was too!

E2a: on Star Trek Online there's a whole storyline about the Romulans (specifically remanants of the Tal Shiar) use stolen Borg technology to build their own drones. 
I think STO is cannon, too.


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## Reno (Jan 24, 2020)

steveo87 said:


> I think STO is cannon, too.


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## Cid (Jan 24, 2020)

I found some of the dialogue pacing weirdly off towards the beginning. But yeah, solid start... Stewart very, very much on form.


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## Cid (Jan 24, 2020)

Also my French is terrible, but I have a feeling Stewart's also is.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2020)

All a bit meh If you ask me. I'll need another one to see where it's going. Daughter thought it was terrible until the girl kicked all the romulans in. . . Then complained endlessly that she died. She's not impressed.


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## editor (Jan 24, 2020)

I enjoyed that.


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## Numbers (Jan 24, 2020)

I enjoyed it too.


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## strung out (Jan 24, 2020)

The Bruce Maddox referred to is from the TNG episode The Measure of a Man. He's the scientist who tried arguing that Data was the property of Starfleet, and wanted to take him apart to study him. He changed his mind when Picard successfully argued that Data was sentient and couldn't be compelled to take part against his will.


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## QueenOfGoths (Jan 24, 2020)

I really liked it, the performances, the pacing, the whole feel of it. 

Yup, I'm sold!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 24, 2020)

Oh, I feel like I must have been watching something else. Everyone seems to universally love it. Maybe TV just isn't for me anymore.


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## T & P (Jan 24, 2020)

Given that one shouldn’t expect too much of the first episode of a brand new series, I thought that was very good indeed 

I watched the very first episode of TNG again about a year ago and boy was it shite


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 24, 2020)

The thing I liked most about it was that I was just plain happy to spend some time with Jean-Luc Picard again. It's the first episode, and there's a lot of plot strands spun up, but I'm really looking forward to see where this goes.


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## cybershot (Jan 25, 2020)

I think majority of us that have seen it are in universal acclaim. After reading this article 









						"Star Trek" fans take care of their own
					

A crowdfunding campaign to help Trekkers pay for CBS All Access is underway. It's what fandoms do




					www.salon.com
				




I was thinking of posting in the main Star Trek discussion thread to offer up purchasing amazon gift cards for those who love Trek but are unable to afford amazon prime? I believe you can get prime in monthly subs now and not just yearly.  I don’t want a single massive bill on this if there’s a massive uptake? Would anyone else join me in offering to do this?


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## Graymalkin (Jan 25, 2020)

Lots of nice callouts for the fans (anyone recognize the romulan mind probes?) and a good premise.  It's a better series opener than discovery.  I'm looking forward to this.


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## Cloo (Jan 25, 2020)

Really liked it, great look and feel generally and you basically can't go wrong with  Sir Patrick in the lead,  he's always great value.  Looking forward to finding out more about the intense back story.


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## Artaxerxes (Jan 25, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> Romulan - Wikipedia
> 
> The Borg cube is titled "Romulan Reclamation Site" - so maybe a re-purposed Borg Cube



It looks like Romulus put it's population on stasis then fired them into space for later retrieval to get them away from the Nova.


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## Dandred (Jan 25, 2020)

This feels great.


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## farmerbarleymow (Jan 25, 2020)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I really liked it, the performances, the pacing, the whole feel of it.
> 
> Yup, I'm sold!


Me too - it was a good first episode.


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## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2020)

Took me a couple of eps to get into STD, but this won me over immediately. I guess it was the familiarity and call backs to what went before. Interesting to see the Prime & Kelvin timelines both having a bearing on what's happening  (almost tempted to go back and watch _Nemesis_).

Only gripe was that it's weekly and not all there to binge on.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 26, 2020)

Crept up on me. If its an Amazon thing why havnt they released the whole lot at once?


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## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Crept up on me. If its an Amazon thing why havnt they released the whole lot at once?



Maybe the company is hoping to create watercooler moments?


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## strung out (Jan 26, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Crept up on me. If its an Amazon thing why havnt they released the whole lot at once?


It's not Amazon in the USA. Over there it's airing on CBS weekly.


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## Ax^ (Jan 26, 2020)

Just watched it 

tis a happy bunny

good it not be release all at once i'd over finished it by this evening


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## donkyboy (Jan 26, 2020)

good first episode.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 26, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Crept up on me. If its an Amazon thing why havnt they released the whole lot at once?



It's made by CBS, for a weekly release on their online platform in the US. Amazon has the worldwide rights.


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## agricola (Jan 26, 2020)

Just watched it, thought the Picard bits were excellent but not sold on the rest of it.  Also it is a bit mad that Data's actual daughter didn't get mentioned (unless I missed it).


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## Yuwipi Woman (Jan 26, 2020)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, I feel like I must have been watching something else. Everyone seems to universally love it. Maybe TV just isn't for me anymore.




I've sometimes thought the same.  I haven't really had a single show that I follow for a couple of years.  I don't know if that's a function of television generally being shite, or a function of getting older and crankier.  My money is on cranky.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2020)

agricola said:


> Just watched it, thought the Picard bits were excellent but not sold on the rest of it.  Also it is a bit mad that Data's actual daughter didn't get mentioned (unless I missed it).


No mention of Lore either and the point for this stuff to arise would have been during  Picard's convo with the woman who heads up the remnants of the synthetic program


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## agricola (Jan 26, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> No mention of Lore either and the point for this stuff to arise would have been during  Picard's convo with the woman who heads up the remnants of the synthetic program



True, though they could possibly be saving that for later (given the mention of creating a new being from a single bit of a positronic brain, which might explain why the thing on Mars happened if they used something from Lore to help create the things).


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## Steel Icarus (Jan 26, 2020)

Loved it. Couple of wet eye moments, some goosebumps. It's true, too, as has been said...being with Picard is a pleasure.


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## cybershot (Jan 26, 2020)

agricola said:


> True, though they could possibly be saving that for later (given the mention of creating a new being from a single bit of a positronic brain, which might explain why the thing on Mars happened if they used something from Lore to help create the things).





Spoiler: Future spoilerish of past TNG character in future ep and not talking 7, riker or troi



we know hugh shows up later and he had dealings with lore in season 7 opener of TNG. It wouldn’t surprise me if Maddox ended up with Hugh in his lab somehow. He did seem a bit gung ho from what we saw in the TNG episode when he tried to acquire data as star fleet property. It wouldn’t surprise me if he also shows up later considering he’s only ‘disappeared’


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## Jennastan (Jan 26, 2020)

Great! Now we need the Blakes 7 comeback series.


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## Spod (Jan 27, 2020)

Decent start. I see phazers are actually dangerous in the Star Trek universe now. Always amazed me they could travel fast than light but couldnt invent a laser gun that didnt repeatedly miss. The hand-to-hand fighting was easily the best ive seen in any Trek Trek franchise or film, not that I watch it for that.


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## 8ball (Jan 27, 2020)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, I feel like I must have been watching something else. Everyone seems to universally love it. Maybe TV just isn't for me anymore.



You have outgrown the televisual plane.
It's Proust and opera all the way down from here.


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## 8ball (Jan 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> It's true, too, as has been said...being with Picard is a pleasure.



Weird, but it did have something of the feel of catching up with an old friend.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 27, 2020)

Spod said:


> The hand-to-hand fighting was easily the best ive seen in any Trek Trek franchise or film, not that I watch it for that.


I want to see old riker do the slow motion judo kick from the TNG era


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## Reno (Jan 27, 2020)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, I feel like I must have been watching something else. Everyone seems to universally love it. Maybe TV just isn't for me anymore.


Reviews have been ok but not exactly enthusiastic, mostly 3 out of 5. Star Trek now is for existing fans, it’s not going to be in the top range of current tv dramas. There are many better shows around, including science fiction shows.


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## Supine (Jan 27, 2020)

It's a 4.5/5 from me


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## Reno (Jan 27, 2020)

I‘ll check it out when the 1st season has finished its run. I hope it will be better than Discovery. I don’t expect to be nearly as good as Watchmen.


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## T & P (Jan 27, 2020)

Reno said:


> Reviews have been ok but not exactly enthusiastic, mostly 3 out of 5. Star Trek now is for existing fans, it’s not going to be in the top range of current tv dramas. There are many better shows around, including science fiction shows.


 Whereas I don’t claim to know or appreciate films and filmmaking nearly as much as experts and media critics, this is one of those times when they’re taking out of their arses IMO- or at least failing to take their highbrow hat off before reviewing a programme that neither aspires not is meant to achieve excellence in the art of cinematography.

Perhaps there is a case for different critics to review different kinds of genres. Look how many times sci fi or action films or series that went on to achieve cult status were initially given poor or so-so reviews by many critics, only for them to reverse their rating years later.


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## Ax^ (Jan 27, 2020)

Spoiler: meh



but why do romulans now have the abiltity to throw acid and blow up. was iron man 3 not bad enough


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## strung out (Jan 27, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> Spoiler: meh
> 
> 
> 
> but why do romulans now have the abiltity to throw acid and blow up. was iron man 3 not bad enough


It was a suicide tablet he crunched.


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## Reno (Jan 27, 2020)

T & P said:


> Whereas I don’t claim to know or appreciate films and filmmaking nearly as much as experts and media critics, this is one of those times when they’re taking out of their arses IMO- or at least failing to take their highbrow hat off before reviewing a programme that neither aspires not is meant to achieve excellence in the art of cinematography.
> 
> Perhaps there is a case for different critics to review different kinds of genres. Look how many times sci fi or action films or series that went on to achieve cult status were initially given poor or so-so reviews by many critics, only for them to reverse their rating years later.


Is the art of cinematography what you think critics are preoccupied with ? This idea that critics only like high brow stuff is populist anti-intellectual bullshit which has taken hold on the Internet and which isn’t true. Most critics asses how something succeeds on its own terms (including pure entertainmen) not how it compares to Ingmar Bergman.

I don’t buy that while occasionally, general consensus changes on a movie this means the merely ok reviews for the first episodes of this show means it’s a masterpiece. I also can’t think of any examples where this was the case with tv series, especially hard to judge as the quality can change with every season. 

Not saying critics are always right (they are in fact a diverse bunch with diverse opinions), I just haven’t seen the Star Trek franchise pull off anything great in a few decades and I’d be surprised if this show can stand alongside the best of current genre tv.

Also, I was answering to someone who couldn’t see what the fuss was about and therefore concluded that all tv shows are no good anymore. I don’t think ST is where you’ll find the best TV currently is capable of, at best it’s comfort telly trading on nostalgia.


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## krtek a houby (Jan 28, 2020)

Reno said:


> I‘ll check it out when the 1st season has finished its run. I hope it will be better than Discovery. I don’t expect to be nearly as good as Watchmen.



Loved STD, admittedly, it took a few eps to get into but it found its feet and am glad it's a very different beast to Picard, Of course, both shows are trading in nostalgia but I guess it's what they do with it. Both require a bit of knowledge but with Discovery, it's kind of a clean slate. Especially with the direction they're going in now.


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## T & P (Jan 28, 2020)

Reno said:


> Is the art of cinematography what you think critics are preoccupied with ? This idea that critics only like high brow stuff is populist anti-intellectual bullshit which has taken hold on the Internet and which isn’t true. Most critics asses how something succeeds on its own terms (including pure entertainmen) not how it compares to Ingmar Bergman.


 Unfortunately I cannot remember of many concrete examples right now, though I come across them all the time (and I should make a note in the future from now on), but there are loads, and I mean loads, of sci fi and action films which were given the usual mediocre, typical 'entertainment fodder' initial reviews by many critics, only to feature years or decades later in many all-time-great film lists. And often the very same critics who initially thought a film was a best okay/  3 stars revisited their scores years later and jumped on the cult status bandwagon.

The only possible explanation I can think of for a critic to change their opinion on a work that has remained the same since its inception is that the critic was influenced by popular opinion of the work in question turning out to be overwhelmingly more positive than the critic's own.


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## Santino (Jan 28, 2020)

T & P said:


> The only possible explanation I can think of for a critic to change their opinion on a work that has remained the same since its inception is that the critic was influenced by popular opinion of the work in question turning out to be overwhelmingly more positive than the critic's own.


I can think of lots of reasons why anyone might re-assess a work many years after their first viewing. Or rather, I can think of lots of examples of my own opinions on works changing over the years.


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## ginger_syn (Jan 28, 2020)

Discovery took me a couple of episodes to engage with, this took five minutes, and I'm not a big star trek fan, stopped watching round the time picard went a bit borg. 
It was a very engaging episode enough that I'm looking forward to following this story.


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## Ax^ (Jan 28, 2020)

go back and watch when he went a bit Borg

it going to be a big party of the story of Picard


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## Reno (Jan 30, 2020)

T & P said:


> Unfortunately I cannot remember of many concrete examples right now, though I come across them all the time (and I should make a note in the future from now on), but there are loads, and I mean loads, of sci fi and action films which were given the usual mediocre, typical 'entertainment fodder' initial reviews by many critics, only to feature years or decades later in many all-time-great film lists. And often the very same critics who initially thought a film was a best okay/  3 stars revisited their scores years later and jumped on the cult status bandwagon.
> 
> The only possible explanation I can think of for a critic to change their opinion on a work that has remained the same since its inception is that the critic was influenced by popular opinion of the work in question turning out to be overwhelmingly more positive than the critic's own.


Critics are a diverse bunch of people and it's futile to talk about them as an autonomous group with a hive mind. Some change their opinions, others like Pauline Kael, the most influential film critic of the 60s and 70s, famously never did. Another reason for changing consensus can be that a new generation of critics sees things in a film, contemporary critics didn't see or found important. Contemporary critics may have never changed their negative opinions of Hitchcock’s  Vertigo, while younger critics have elevated it to being considered one of the greatest films ever made.

I have changed my mind on films. Some play better for me on a second viewing, with certain preconceptions out of the way. Sometimes someone else's opinion has enabled me to see a film from a different perspective, which has made me appreciate it more. Sometimes it's because I have changed and I can relate to a film's subject matter more. Other films genuinely are ahead of their time and only come into their own later.

There is nothing wrong with changing ones mind, in fact I don't trust people who are inflexible in their thinking. The reason for changing ones opinion on a film doesn't have to be as cynical as jumping on a bandwagon.


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## Supine (Jan 30, 2020)

Really enjoyed the second episode. I spotted a nice little easter egg on the borg ship.



Spoiler: Egg


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 30, 2020)

just watched it. was good and deep , keep it coming


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 30, 2020)

is it out on amazon  

only got a linked firestick last week


or is this slightly dodgy copies from CBS premiere last night


----------



## Supine (Jan 30, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> is it out on amazon
> 
> only got a linked firestick last week
> 
> ...



1080HD torrents available if you look in the normal places.


----------



## rekil (Jan 30, 2020)

Subs on mine wrong. Should be "feckers". If they're going to have an Irish romulan they should've gone for one with anything other than a Dalkey accent.  "Robots me hole".


----------



## Supine (Jan 30, 2020)

I really like the Irish romulan character. It shouldn’t work but it so does.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 31, 2020)

I was a bit worried with the opening ten minutes of this episode. Sudden friendly romulan that knows all the tricks of the trade in a flash. Figured she may be a romulan plant but as the episode progressed it got better and a proper pacing returned. Also Proving my first 10 minute theory wrong.

wondering what happened between him and Beverly that went so wrong? It was her he hailed right?


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 31, 2020)

nah it was the charcter he went and visited in the taxi near the end


Nice usage of the star trek Rocks as well


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Feb 1, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> Nice usage of the star trek Rocks as well


Yes, I liked that too, but otherwise I thought Ep 2 was a bit too techno-babbley - that whole scene in the apartment with the 3D history-scanner thing, and the fact that his butler and housekeeper just happen to be experts on the Romulan secret service, was all a bit too suspension-of-disbelief straining, IMO. Tried to shoehorn too much exposition into a single episode.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Feb 1, 2020)

Supine said:


> I really like the Irish romulan character. It shouldn’t work but it so does, so it does.


FTFY


----------



## Steel Icarus (Feb 1, 2020)

Lovely shot in last night's - Picard's face and a flame reflected in a clock face - time running out.


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 1, 2020)

the Techno babble is star trek Tbf

plus with Picard's history with the romulians and their love of controlling situations it would not be surprising they send Tal shair agents to get close to him


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 1, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Lovely shot in last night's - Picard's face and a flame reflected in a clock face - time running out.



slight ruined as we are getting a second season already


----------



## fishfinger (Feb 1, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> slight ruined as we are getting a second season already


Yebbut, there's plenty of wiggle room - the doctor didn't know how long he had.


----------



## Ax^ (Feb 1, 2020)

would always love more trek but the way Stewart was talking about the series and liking it to Logan

I was ponder would we get a one and done series to complete his character journey


appear it going to be a longer affair


----------



## strung out (Feb 1, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Yes, I liked that too, but otherwise I thought Ep 2 was a bit too techno-babbley - that whole scene in the apartment with the 3D history-scanner thing, and the fact that his butler and housekeeper just happen to be experts on the Romulan secret service, was all a bit too suspension-of-disbelief straining, IMO. Tried to shoehorn too much exposition into a single episode.


They're former Tal'Shiar members who defected. Explained in one of the prequel comics that came out recently.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Feb 1, 2020)

strung out said:


> They're former Tal'Shiar members who defected. Explained in one of the prequel comics that came out recently.


Huh, okay. I feel like I probably need to re-watch First Contact or maybe some others of the TNG movies.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Feb 1, 2020)

Supine said:


> Really enjoyed the second episode. I spotted a nice little easter egg on the borg ship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I loved this bit.

I am less keen on 



Spoiler



yet another top secret cabal and infiltration that goes right to the top (and also has its members talk openly about said top secret infiltration in public)


----------



## CNT36 (Feb 2, 2020)

fishfinger said:


> Yebbut, there's plenty of wiggle room - the doctor didn't know how long he had.


A call back to the Next Generation finale. The problem was first detected after he returned from a trip to a future where he had an incurable disease.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 2, 2020)

That one was a bit better. Though I think I might have taken a nap in the middle.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 3, 2020)

Loved the throwaway line "I don't care for science fiction - I never really got it"


----------



## Spod (Feb 6, 2020)

Wow that second episode was slow. Also the romulan make-up looks it been done by the work experience kid. I mean it looks like someone just drew the eyebrows on with a black magic marker and went "fuck it, that'll do". Will stick with it but am struggling.


----------



## rekil (Feb 6, 2020)

Oirish hologram this time. Bumping into the furniture.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 8, 2020)

It's a slow burn but every time the music kicks in and the last line in ep 3.... 

Loving it.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 8, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> It's a slow burn but every time the music kicks in and the last line in ep 3....
> 
> Loving it.



Same. I'm not sure why the housekeepers didn't go with him, but given that the show has spent a lot of time on them I'm sure they'll feature again.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 8, 2020)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Same. I'm not sure why the housekeepers didn't go with him, but given that the show has spent a lot of time on them I'm sure they'll feature again.



I hope so. Orla Brady's character is a good foil to Picard, I'd like to see her given more screen time.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 8, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> I hope so. Orla Brady's character is a good foil to Picard, I'd like to see her given more screen time.



Oh I'm sure she'll crash through a spaceship window at some point soon in full-on mam mode. Just with more knives and guns than you might normally expect.


----------



## Cerv (Feb 8, 2020)

I’m not totally getting into this. spread across the first 3 eps seems to be enough for one decent intro episode and unfortunately a lot of guff
like so many scenes where two characters have a stilted conversation telling each other stuff they already know about their own relationships. 
hopefully it’ll pick up next week now we should be past the build up and full swing into the story


----------



## T & P (Feb 8, 2020)

I enjoyed ep 3 but kept shouting to the TV ‘come on, let’s go to space and see some action!’ Luckily it looks like that’s what is in store going forward


----------



## Tankus (Feb 9, 2020)

Have to say it < Patrick Stewart's acting chops have seriously aged along with him, hes not  carrying this well


----------



## donkyboy (Feb 9, 2020)

liking this series. loved it when he said "engage". 

But I'm beginning to think it was a mistake not dropping this all at once. Every episode feels so short & just as it gets going, it ends. The lengthy recaps at the beginning & the 'coming next' tags at the end don't help either.  I just watched ep 2 and 3 back to back and thought it was much better. So I'm going to miss ep 4 and watch it when ep 5 is released.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 9, 2020)

Tankus said:


> Have to say it < Patrick Stewart's acting chops have seriously aged along with him, hes not  carrying this well


It's a Star Trek.  What are you expecting?

He's getting rubbish to work with.  They've probably told him to wind it in a bit.


----------



## donkyboy (Feb 10, 2020)

They have signed Woopi Goldberg for season 2 which is negative already in my books as never liked her character in the tng.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 10, 2020)

I suspect like others it will be a one episode cameo at best


----------



## Dandred (Feb 14, 2020)

Fancy Dress next episode, can't wait!


----------



## cybershot (Feb 14, 2020)

starting to feel like the mid season episodes are just going to be filler and lead us to a cliffhanger season finale.

Hope I’m wrong. Last 2 defiantly haven’t been as on par as the two openers.


----------



## donkyboy (Feb 14, 2020)

I know I said I would skip ep 4 and watch it with ep 5, but I broke my own rule.

*Good God that was by far the worst episode so far for me*. Complete filler. Picked up another crew member which took all of the episode 

Picard got shouted at *again* and apologizes for the Federation's failure to help the Romulans *(again)*.

No mention of where the Romulan ships were during this time and why they couldn't evacuate their own people and needed Starfleet....

Stewart delivers his lines like he's just reading them - plus he looks like he might drop dead at any moment. I almost switched off when the holodeck appeared - that substitute for any real ideas 

*AND *next week looks really horrible - some sort of fancy dress expedition


----------



## agricola (Feb 14, 2020)

I am not sure any of _Discovery_'s episodes, in either season, was as bad as ep 4 of _Picard_ was.   

Of the many terrible bits - the meeting in the holographic representation of his house, the ship turning up, the warrior nuns, him walking into that bar, that Panama hat etc - I felt the worst was the two minutes of skidding.   What on earth was the point of that?


----------



## barlimo (Feb 14, 2020)

I'm not particularly impressed by it!


----------



## ruffneck23 (Feb 14, 2020)

maybe I'm easily pleased or just old , but I'm really enjoying it so screw you guys


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 14, 2020)

ruffneck23 said:


> maybe I'm easily pleased or just old , but I'm really enjoying it so screw you guys



It really shouldn't take this long to put a crew together, but eh, I'm easily pleased too. Also, old.


----------



## Cerv (Feb 14, 2020)

what a disappointment episode 4 was 

was there any point to holographic Chateau Picard other than they’d already paid for it so wanted to get there money’s worth?
it seems to go against the characterisation in the last 3 episodes that Picard never felt as comfortably at home there as out on a ship (see also Generations)

also, the incestuous Romulan spies have had the exact same conversation 4 times now. it’s insulting the intelligence of your audience to think we’ve forgotten everything about them and need reminded again


----------



## Saul Goodman (Feb 14, 2020)

DotCommunist said:


> I want to see old riker do the slow motion judo kick from the TNG era


I want to see him trying to do his chair thing, and squashing his left bollock in the process.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 14, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> I want to see him trying to do his chair thing, and squashing his left bollock in the process.



apparently he had to do the Riker Chair Mount/Dismount because he had a back problem at the time.


not seen this weeks one yet, sticking it on nowish


----------



## donkyboy (Feb 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> also, the incestuous Romulan spies have had the exact same conversation 4 times now. it’s insulting the intelligence of your audience to think we’ve forgotten everything about them and need reminded again



Yeah. Their clandestine meetings are just boring.


----------



## Reno (Feb 15, 2020)

Rivendelboy said:


> I hope will wheaton's involved


Is that what got them banned ?


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 16, 2020)

Still loving it, yes the pace is slow but it's still engaging. As for concerns about PS - his acting and perceived physical condition - he's knocking on 80 and doing a grand job!


----------



## Steel Icarus (Feb 16, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> it's still engaging.


Accidental Picard?


----------



## cybershot (Feb 18, 2020)

If TNG was being written in 2020.


----------



## petee (Feb 18, 2020)




----------



## Tankus (Feb 18, 2020)

agricola said:


> I am not sure any of _Discovery_'s episodes, in either season, was as bad as ep 4 of _Picard_ was.
> 
> Of the many terrible bits - the meeting in the holographic representation of his house, the ship turning up, the warrior nuns, him walking into that bar, that Panama hat etc -* I felt the worst was the two minutes of skidding.   What on earth was the point of that?*



filler.......

I've started FF through bits


----------



## Spod (Feb 18, 2020)

Dead right. Just boring chat after boring chat. WTF are they thinking with this? 


Tankus said:


> filler.......
> 
> I've started FF through bits


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 18, 2020)

NextGen was mostly chat.  It took time to relate to the characters though.

I hated Worf early on.


----------



## kabbes (Feb 18, 2020)

I’ve quite liked it, which is rare for me with telly these days.  It’s not the best thing ever but it’s been quite fun.  I like the crew they’re assembling and it was cool when 7 turned up.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Feb 18, 2020)

It's, ok. It's comfortable rather than good I think, it's not going to go down as record breaking or insightful but it's comfortable. Better than the Abrams work at least.

The most jarring part for me us the concept of Picard just going quietly into the night for 14 years and abandoning everyone which was very much the theme of episode 3 and 4.


----------



## Spod (Feb 20, 2020)

its not chat I object to - its the boring chat.  With the occasional unnecessary f-bomb.  

I'm giving it one more episode before I bail. 




Maggot said:


> Gives a whole new meaning to Inside No 9





DexterTCN said:


> NextGen was mostly chat.  It took time to relate to the characters though.
> 
> I hated Worf early on.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 20, 2020)

Well. That was a total waste of jeri Ryan.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 21, 2020)

Not very good at all.


----------



## Tankus (Feb 21, 2020)

kabbes said:


> I’ve quite liked it, which is rare for me with telly these days.  It’s not the best thing ever but it’s been quite fun.  I like the crew they’re assembling and it was cool when 7 turned up.


Sort of like a wannabe  Blakes 7....... but without the charm and wobbly polystyrene


----------



## Reno (Feb 21, 2020)

Tankus said:


> Sort of like a wannabe  Blakes 7....... but without the charm and wobbly polystyrene


...and on valium.


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 21, 2020)

Valuim in fact.  (because  it's badly written)


----------



## agricola (Feb 21, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Well. That was a total waste of jeri Ryan.



Its a total waste of everything.  How did this get a second season?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Feb 21, 2020)

I'm really enjoying it


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 21, 2020)

It may actually be a victim of nostalgia.

Last year we had Dark Crystal, Chernobyl and Watchmen off the top of my head.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 22, 2020)

This just keeps getting worse somehow. The dialogue is woeful, just people explaining the plot to each other. Seven's personality has gone out the window. Picard himself has nothing to do.


----------



## Tankus (Feb 22, 2020)

Actually.....like Blakes 7 ...it may be better off with the title character dead.....

Stewart  is really struggling to get his lines out


----------



## Reno (Feb 22, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


> It may actually be a victim of nostalgia.
> 
> Last year we had Dark Crystal, Chernobyl and Watchmen off the top of my head.



Who is nostalgic for Chernobyl ?


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 22, 2020)

Reno said:


> Who is nostalgic for Chernobyl ?


Sorry, I meant that there's so much quality stuff now that another Star Trek show pales quickly in comparison.  My expectations were too high and I'm currently very disappointed with this.


----------



## Cloo (Feb 22, 2020)

Still really liking it and thought Ryan's performance was excellent.... not a waste at all.

Finding it slightly hard to hold onto everything that's going on though, I admit!


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Feb 23, 2020)

I like it.  The pace is a bit slow but I'm happy to go along with it.  I like Seven's hard-faced and murderous character.

The female doctor from the synth lab is starting to annoy me though.


----------



## Spod (Feb 24, 2020)

Right, I'm now done with it. Gave it a 5 episodes and, waited till 7 came into it in the hope that it would perk up. She was ok but does not make up for the whole show being boring, crap writing and poor performances.


----------



## CNT36 (Feb 25, 2020)

I hope she's not done. A major part of the plot seems to be about ex-borg. Seems a waste to get in the most famous Ex-borg just to go to the fancy dress night in the local.
Nice to see the creepy kid borg finally get his.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Feb 26, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> Seven's personality has gone out the window.


It's been decades, though - are you still the same person you were 20 odd years ago?


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Feb 26, 2020)

farmerbarleymow said:


> The female doctor from the synth lab is starting to annoy me though.


She's reminding me a lot of Ensign Tilly.


----------



## CNT36 (Feb 26, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> She's reminding me a lot of Ensign Tilly.


Mike Stoklasa said the same thing. I'm still only three episodes in to Discovery so not sure myself.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Feb 26, 2020)

CNT36 said:


> Mike Stoklasa said the same thing. I'm still only three episodes in to Discovery so not sure myself.


It's partly a resemblance between the actresses, but the Dr is also the audience proxy like Tilly (or at least she was, until she started murdering people.)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 28, 2020)

Episode 6 accelerates the pace a fair bit, at least towards the end. faint praise, I know.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Feb 28, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> She's reminding me a lot of Ensign Tilly.


No idea who that is, sorry.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Feb 28, 2020)

Captain Rios (or whatever) is quite hot though.


----------



## Dandred (Feb 28, 2020)

I quite like this


----------



## belboid (Feb 29, 2020)

agricola said:


> I felt the worst was the two minutes of skidding.   What on earth was the point of that?


It's just something endemically silly, and all too _human_. It convinced whateverhernameis she's a real person. It was also really crap and embarrassing.

I only just realised Michael Chabon - _Michael Chabon_ - wrote two of the episodes. And not two of the half decent if you like that kind of a thing episodes.


----------



## strung out (Feb 29, 2020)

belboid said:


> It's just something endemically silly, and all too _human_. It convinced whateverhernameis she's a real person. It was also really crap and embarrassing.
> 
> I only just realised Michael Chabon - _Michael Chabon_ - wrote two of the episodes. And not two of the half decent if you like that kind of a thing episodes.


He's the showrunner.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 29, 2020)

Nice callbacks to _I, Borg_.


----------



## agricola (Feb 29, 2020)

I think perhaps the most damning thing about that episode is that the best bits were nearly always ones created by or at least heavily inspired by someone other than this shows' writers.   

Take the contrast between the Borg, Hugh and Picard scenes (which were lovely) with the absolutely terrible parquet floor mind trick sequence.


----------



## belboid (Feb 29, 2020)

strung out said:


> He's the showrunner.


yeah, tho it looks to be more like showhavesomeideaswhiledrunking. 

But he actually wrote that shit, appalling lines about 'the existential pain of living with the consciousness of death.' Bad. Tho not quite as bad as the dialogue explaining what twins are in Ep1


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Feb 29, 2020)

farmerbarleymow said:


> No idea who that is, sorry.


She was the wide-eyed innocent character in Star Trek Discovery.


----------



## Cerv (Feb 29, 2020)

the scene this week when Hugh introduces Picard to the reclamation project was probably the highlight of the series so far (faint praise…)
Stewart was perfect, his hopeful awe taking over from the tired cynicism that Picard’s been dealing with until now. it was a great contrast with his tour of the Romulan resettlement town two weeks ago. here was one bright spark of someone doing good to remind him of the optimism for the universe he used to have.

but it was somewhat ruined for the audience that we didn’t get to experience the revelation with him. instead we’re seeing a retread of exposition from a few weeks ago. 
I’m really thinking now that everything that happened on the Cube before the heroes got there should have been on the cutting room floor. would anything of interest have been lost?


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Feb 29, 2020)

Buddy Bradley said:


> She was the wide-eyed innocent character in Star Trek Discovery.


I don't think I watched more than a couple of episodes of that - I didn't like it for some reason.


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 1, 2020)

You cannot balance the devastating revelation with the almost upbeat re-union, they should have been separate episodes because we lose the emotional impact.

Lazy, hurried writing.


----------



## agricola (Mar 1, 2020)

Cerv said:


> the scene this week when Hugh introduces Picard to the reclamation project was probably the highlight of the series so far (faint praise…)
> Stewart was perfect, his hopeful awe taking over from the tired cynicism that Picard’s been dealing with until now. it was a great contrast with his tour of the Romulan resettlement town two weeks ago. here was one bright spark of someone doing good to remind him of the optimism for the universe he used to have.
> 
> but it was somewhat ruined for the audience that we didn’t get to experience the revelation with him. instead we’re seeing a retread of exposition from a few weeks ago.
> I’m really thinking now that everything that happened on the Cube before the heroes got there should have been on the cutting room floor. *would anything of interest have been lost*?



You can say that about almost the entire series.


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 1, 2020)

I'm actually annoyed now...these were good ideas.


----------



## kabbes (Mar 2, 2020)

belboid said:


> But he actually wrote that shit, appalling lines about 'the existential pain of living with the consciousness of death.'


Not sure exactly what your problem was with that particular line. The “pain of living with the consciousness of death”, or at least the anxiety (or angst) this brings in the presence of infinite choice, is exactly what Kirkegaard focused on and subsequent existential writers followed up.  If he was reading existential works (and I can’t remember what it was he was actually reading at the time), it’s a pretty good précis for him to give in response to being asked what he was reading.


----------



## belboid (Mar 2, 2020)

kabbes said:


> Not sure exactly what your problem was with that particular line. The “pain of living with the consciousness of death”, or at least the anxiety (or angst) this brings in the presence of infinite choice, is exactly what Kirkegaard focused on and subsequent existential writers followed up.  If he was reading existential works (and I can’t remember what it was he was actually reading at the time), it’s a pretty good précis for him to give in response to being asked what he was reading.


its a pseudo-pretentious load of old wank to show he's really fucking deep maaaan. And it's a precis taken pretty much straight from wiki. The book was fictitious.


----------



## kabbes (Mar 2, 2020)

Meh.  I don’t mind them using some shortcuts to establish the character archetypes. There are good and bad things about that show, but I wouldn’t put that line in either bucket.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 2, 2020)

I like it in a "fairly gentle, undemanding telly" kind of way.  Got a few episodes to catch up on later.
Agree with the comment from a little earlier that the team seem to have things in hand without dragging Grandad along, though.

Tbf, 300 years in the future, it's a good plan if you want to go to an interstellar bar and be sure there's at least one person who isn't going to get carded.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 3, 2020)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I don't think I watched more than a couple of episodes of that - I didn't like it for some reason.



It's the first 2 or 3 eps that people dive out of the show after. Which is a shame, because it get's better. Not bad for a ST show, as some of them have taken a whole season to improve.


----------



## donkyboy (Mar 3, 2020)

Have given up on this after episode 4. haven't watched it since.


----------



## Spod (Mar 4, 2020)

Im a hardcore trekkie so it made it all the way to episode 5 before regrettably bailing.


----------



## kabbes (Mar 4, 2020)

Spod said:


> Im a hardcore trekkie so it made it all the way to episode 5 before regrettably bailing.


Episode 6 is worth a go at least.  It warms up the story a lot, and the fact that it is Picard is actually important to the story rather than incidental.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 4, 2020)

I'm sticking with it.  Don't really watch any other telly and I'm not super-fussy.
And it's kind of scratching an old _Firefly_ itch a little bit.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 4, 2020)

kabbes said:


> Episode 6 is worth a go at least.  It warms up the story a lot, and the fact that it is Picard is actually important to the story rather than incidental.


There are moments where it is actually Picard rather than some old guy who likes playing dress up and starting fights.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 5, 2020)

I think this is great!


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 5, 2020)

another good one


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 5, 2020)

Spod said:


> Im a hardcore trekkie so it made it all the way to episode 5 before regrettably bailing.


I made it to three . . . Well a couple of minutes into three. I would daily do a minute or two with my daughter before we both gave up. So maybe two and five or six minutes of three.


----------



## agricola (Mar 6, 2020)

Much better that, though again that seemed mainly because the writers didn't have to come up with anything new.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Mar 7, 2020)

Great episode. So many feels. Marina Sirtis knocked it out of the park.


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Mar 7, 2020)

I've started watching it, I've seen four episodes and am liking it so far, although some bits seem a bit forced/twee.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 8, 2020)

Apart from an intensely problematic geological formation at the very end, I thought episode 7 was really rather sweet and lovely.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Mar 8, 2020)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Apart from an intensely problematic geological formation at the very end


----------



## kabbes (Mar 8, 2020)

Yes, episode 7 was lovely.  The series has definitely grown into itself.


----------



## belboid (Mar 10, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Great episode. So many feels. Marina Sirtis knocked it out of the park.


And there was I thinking 'I can see why Marina Sirtis hasn't acted in anything else of note bar Green Street 2'  Terrible actress, abysmal empath. Another poor episode, but sod it, its got some old fan faves in so we needn't bother writing anything sensible.  Oh and we'll throw in Alison Pill having a fit out of nowhere.  At least the minimal plot is moving on.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 10, 2020)

belboid said:


> And there was I thinking 'I can see why Marina Sirtis hasn't acted in anything else of note bar Green Street 2'  Terrible actress, abysmal empath. Another poor episode, but sod it, its got some old fan faves in so we needn't bother writing anything sensible.  Oh and we'll throw in Alison Pill having a fit out of nowhere.  At least the minimal plot is moving on.


why are you still watching then ? if I was not liking something so much id give up


----------



## belboid (Mar 10, 2020)

ruffneck23 said:


> why are you still watching then ? if I was not liking something so much id give up


they're quite short.  Two episodes were okay. I had hopes for the Chabon written episodes, And its nearly over now.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 10, 2020)

A shame Hugh had to die because he wasn't angry and motivated by vengeance. Unlike Seven of Nine, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero One who is possibly the smartest human who has ever lived, a scientist, engineer and explorer who just fucks up shoplifters and that now.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 12, 2020)

loved ep8.

we are the....


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 13, 2020)

"Admiral Picard, finally, and with the greatest respect, shut the fuck up!"

A pretty exposition-heavy episode again, but I think it worked well enough. Intriguing hints about a _very_ big bad that's out there...

I also enjoyed the comedy accent of engineer Ian - an homage to the late James Doohan I suspect.


----------



## belboid (Mar 13, 2020)

Well. I hate to tell you all this, but I quite enjoyed that one.

It got the fuck on with it, the amusing bits were actually amusing. There was decent dialogue amidst all the exposition, proper mild peril and, possibly most importantly, hardly any of the awful Elnor.

(half a bottle of wine might have helped too)


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 13, 2020)

belboid said:


> Well. I hate to tell you all this, but I quite enjoyed that one.
> 
> It got the fuck on with it, the amusing bits were actually amusing. There was decent dialogue amidst all the exposition, proper mild peril and, possibly most importantly, hardly any of the awful Elnor.
> 
> (half a bottle of wine might have helped too)


All good things...


----------



## Steel Icarus (Mar 13, 2020)

I'm really enjoying it, though watching on a Friday night is tricky for not bobbing off


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 13, 2020)

I’m watching it again right now with my Uber Star Trek fan mate 

it’s not often I re watch stuff


----------



## Tankus (Mar 14, 2020)

8 feels like its starting  , but its almost finished


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 14, 2020)

The opening scene with the Romulans all bashing their own brains in was unintentionally hilarious.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 15, 2020)

Been a long slog but episode 8 a marked improvement.


----------



## agricola (Mar 15, 2020)

Just watched it, preferred how _Mass Effect_ did that.


----------



## Jennastan (Mar 15, 2020)

belboid said:


> And there was I thinking 'I can see why Marina Sirtis hasn't acted in anything else of note bar Green Street 2'  Terrible actress, abysmal empath.


Her career has been downhill ever since this


----------



## agricola (Mar 20, 2020)

yet more _Mass Effect_ this week


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 20, 2020)

agricola said:


> yet more _Mass Effect_ this week


I love mass effect, even andromeda.

Im also loving this 

a theory I've seen , might be on here so apologies for not crediting you , if it was you...



Spoiler: theory



the big bad ai , is the same ai from discovery which I think would be pretty cool to tie them together , but who knows..


----------



## agricola (Mar 20, 2020)

ruffneck23 said:


> I love mass effect, even andromeda.
> 
> Im also loving this
> 
> ...



no, my theory was



Spoiler



the androids used Lore as a base, not Data


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 20, 2020)

agricola said:


> no, my theory was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


close...


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 22, 2020)

Chekhov's Borg Cube?


----------



## T & P (Mar 27, 2020)

I enjoyed the last episode. Far from perfect and a fair amount of fan service, but still fairly satisfying


----------



## fucthest8 (Mar 27, 2020)

I've thought the whole thing was a bit average but that last episode redeemed it - and I didn't really watch TNG, but I thought that was really affecting


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 27, 2020)

good shit


----------



## strung out (Mar 27, 2020)

Fucking dog shit. The show threatened to give us a nuanced and satisfying ending in episodes 7 and 8, before they ruined it with two of the worst, most poorly paced and written episodes of the whole series.


----------



## agricola (Mar 27, 2020)

Hated every single thing about that episode - in fact, if anyone ever wanted to write a lengthy essay about the pathetically low standard of writing in US television drama during the 2010s then they should save themselves the effort and just show people that.  Utterly risible.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 27, 2020)

Excellent finish, I thought. I'm looking forward to the next season - that's an interesting crew assembled.


----------



## strung out (Mar 27, 2020)

agricola said:


> Hated every single thing about that episode - in fact, if anyone ever wanted to write a lengthy essay about the pathetically low standard of writing in US television drama during the 2010s then they should save themselves the effort and just show people that.  Utterly risible.


Along with most of Discovery, it feels like they're squandering all that was good about Star Trek in favour of the worst excesses of modern television.


----------



## agricola (Mar 27, 2020)

strung out said:


> Along with most of Discovery, it feels like they're squandering all that was good about Star Trek in favour of the worst excesses of modern television.



_Discovery_ was by no means perfect, but at least you got the impression that the writers had actually watched and liked some of the series that it was meant to be linked to. There were episodes in which they tried to think outside the box as well as explore Trek staples like the Mirror universe in amongst all the dross.

At no point in _Picard_ was there any evidence that the writers had done that, wanted to do it or even liked TNG. It was just stupid.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 27, 2020)

I waited to watch the last two parts together. Thought it was really messy. Redeemed by the last 10 minutes which was about as emotional as the series got since the first episode but was also a major cop out.

the flowers thing felt like a piss take out of encounter at far point. I was actually expecting Q to show up at the end and reveal this had just been one big piss about.


----------



## Tankus (Mar 27, 2020)

If there's a series 2  ,Picard needs to have a funeral scene.in the first episode  ,Then carry on with 7/9' s storyline


----------



## rekil (Mar 27, 2020)

Smoking in space does my head in.


----------



## Cloo (Mar 28, 2020)

Loved the series as a whole - Stewart's performance, a really good role for an older woman for once in Rafi, generally good characters and a well-pitched level of fan service.

Last episode was patchy, was expecting crashed borg cube to have more of a role in the story. Cried buckets at the end, liked the metaphysics of Data's existence. 



Spoiler



Thought it was a bit of a cop-out bringing Picard back, but it was bloody obvious that was going to happen the minute you saw that synthetic body that was just waiting for an inhabitant


----------



## kabbes (Mar 28, 2020)

Data’s speech at the end looped back to Rios reading existentialism when we first met him.  The idea Data talks about that humanity cannot be truly human without mortality — it’s the knowledge of death that drives us to create and develop — is the flip side of the anxiety that this knowledge creates, which Rios referred when we first met him.  I thought that was a neat bookend.


----------



## BoxRoom (Mar 28, 2020)

Why didn't they make Picard's new body younger? What a waste of opportunity to have Tom Hardy in the next series!


----------



## agricola (Mar 28, 2020)

kabbes said:


> Data’s speech at the end looped back to Rios reading existentialism when we first met him.  The idea Data talks about that humanity cannot be truly human without mortality — it’s the knowledge of death that drives us to create and develop — is the flip side of the anxiety that this knowledge creates, which Rios referred when we first met him.  I thought that was a neat bookend.



That was one of the most annoying things of all, IMHO.  A five minute talk about mortality and humanity, but then they resurrected Picard and demonstrated that immortality _and_ superpowers was possible. 

No wonder Data wanted to be switched off at that point.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 28, 2020)

Tankus said:


> If there's a series 2  ,Picard needs to have a funeral scene.in the first episode  ,Then carry on with 7/9' s storyline


She had one? Was there any point to any of the Borg stuff other than to stick the cube and that "x amount of days since an assimilation" poster in the trailer. They weakened the Borg more in a few episodes than 4 seasons if Voyager. Romulan so crazy she a broke a cube and flower so hard it broke a cube. 

Why are advanced holograms capable of running a starship fine but not synths?

Since when were Picard and Data that close? You'd of thought either Data or Hugh would have asked after Geordi who both of them were closer to.

What's with the Romulans? Senators and assorted refugees and wankers but also 200 plus warships available for a pet project. Is there still an empire or are they all sat in wild West towns?

Why didn't Picard have any of the symptoms he had in All Good Things...?


----------



## Helen Back (Mar 29, 2020)

I liked that Data's unplugging was like the unplugging of HAL scene. At least Data didn't sing "Daisy".


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 29, 2020)

Helen Back said:


> I liked that Data's unplugging was like the unplugging of HAL scene. At least Data didn't sing "Daisy".


Listening to Blue skies. Maybe the writers only knew the films and a couple of two parters.


----------



## Helen Back (Mar 29, 2020)

CNT36 said:


> Listening to Blue skies. Maybe the writers only knew the films and a couple of two parters.


Nah. If you're a Sci-Fi writer then 2001 is "required reading" (watching) "at the academy", as it seemed they used to keep on saying on Next Gen at one point.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 29, 2020)

Helen Back said:


> Nah. If you're a Sci-Fi writer then 2001 is "required reading" (watching) "at the academy", as it seemed they used to keep on saying on Next Gen at one point.


And Voyager worked that as well. I'm sure they've watched things other than Star Trek but seemed to have gleaned most of their knowledge of it from the 4 Picard and co films. They didn't really pay attention to them from Seven's upset when the Borg were blown out into space.


----------



## Helen Back (Mar 29, 2020)

Also, just found out Patrick Stewart is only 80. Born 1940. And yet Picard is 94 on the show? If Stewart lives to be 100 in real life then it looks like Picard may get his extra 10 or 20 years after all.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 30, 2020)

It didn't have nearly enough silicon-based lifeforms in it for me. Where were the Horta, where? That's _my_ Star Trek.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 30, 2020)

You Horta watch something else.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 30, 2020)

CNT36 said:


> You Horta watch something else.



You should be ashamed of yourself for that hahaha


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 30, 2020)

Some episodes like that would have been good. Having watched season 1 of Discovery as well I think the episodes that have felt most like Trek were the Groundhog day and the living planet Discovery episodes. The ending of the Groundhog day rip off was very original series. Both were well worn stories but the Groundhog day one was among the best. I think the 



Spoiler: Discovery



mirror episodes could of made more of the pretending to be their otherselves thing. They played it more like Deep Space Nine than the original series but with characters and locations we hardly knew.



Eta less gibberish.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 5, 2021)




----------



## Helen Back (Apr 5, 2021)

So. CGI de-aging or Q saying "I just felt like looking older."?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 5, 2021)

Helen Back said:


> So. CGI de-aging or Q saying "I just felt like looking older."?


Him being older. He'll say it's  either a tribute to human aging  or  a mocking jab at picards frailty.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 6, 2021)

Let’s see how they manage to fuck this up too.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 6, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Let’s see how they manage to fuck this up too.


Well exactly. Set expectations to stunted.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 9, 2021)

Season 2 trailer


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 9, 2021)

has really voyage home vibes


could be interested


----------



## ruffneck23 (Sep 9, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> has really voyage home vibes


That's what I thought too.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 9, 2021)

ruffneck23 said:


> Season 2 trailer



Oh Jesus. Does someone know where he has hidden the bodies?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 9, 2021)

Looks like utter shite.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 9, 2021)

mwgdrwg said:


> Looks like utter shite.



Shut up Wesley


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 9, 2021)

Mike Stoklasa is going to have an aneurism.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 9, 2021)

Urgh. Time travel. Cop out.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 9, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Urgh. Time travel. Cop out.


Time travel is cool.  The cop out is the magic space imp.  Fuck sake.  Worst. Thing. Ever.

I'll watch it though.  It has Seven.  Seven is cool.


----------



## elbows (Sep 9, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Time travel is cool.  The cop out is the magic space imp.  Fuck sake.  Worst. Thing. Ever.
> 
> I'll watch it though.  It has Seven.  Seven is cool.


Was it you that I accidentally wound up by mentioning Q without realising how much you hated Q?


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 9, 2021)

elbows said:


> Was it you that I accidentally wound up by mentioning Q without realising how much you hated Q?


Yes.  I even wrote your name in The Book.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 9, 2021)

Galactica 1980 was one of TV Sci-Fi's lowest points, down there with Plan 9 From Outer Space, Hitler's Brain and Santa Claus Meets The Martians


----------



## elbows (Sep 9, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes.  I even wrote your name in The Book.


Somehow I suspected that as far as you are concerned I have become some sort of surrogate for Q, and that I was deliberately winding you up by playing games just like Q would.

I never really got the sense that my reassurances on that front convinced you, so I'll take this opportunity again to assure you that if I had any sort of interest in that sort of mission, my template would resemble the following far more than Q's modus operandi:


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 9, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Galactica 1980 was one of TV Sci-Fi's lowest points, down there with Plan 9 From Outer Space, Hitler's Brain and Santa Claus Meets The Martians


I have to admit that I think I actually liked it at the time. It put BSG in my world, a world where I could now imagine play flying my chopper into the sky with a bucket on my head.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 9, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Urgh. Time travel. Cop out.



Time travel is a staple of Star Trek lore.


----------



## T & P (Sep 9, 2021)

Time travel can be cool and work well in a film or series, or make you feel dumb and story unsatisfactory.

For me, the Back to the Future trilogy is time travel done well in fiction storytelling. But often it is confusing. And can also be a buzzkill if one cares reasonably enough about a franchise/ universe.

The first of the JJ Abrams reboot films was a lot of fun, one of Abrams’s best works in fact, but then again, why should we accept the newly revealed fate of Spock’s home planet and race? Or of Kirk’s upbringing?

Doctor Who and its constant going back and forth in time since its modern reboot, and seemly being okay to interfere in human history in light the hearted episodes, but not so to change the fate of his missus or his assistants because cataclysmic consequences to the space-time equilibrium and blah blah, also confuse and frustrate the hell out of me.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 9, 2021)

T & P said:


> Time travel can be cool and work well in a film or series, or make you feel dumb and story unsatisfactory.
> 
> For me, the Back to the Future trilogy is time travel done well in fiction storytelling. But often it is confusing. And can also be a buzzkill if one cares reasonably enough about a franchise/ universe.
> 
> ...



Yeah, what also pisses me off is the assumption that either of these things will bugger up the whole timey-wimey shebang when in reality it’s likely to be something much more like accidentally nudging the wrong beetle.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 9, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Time travel is a staple of Star Trek lore.


And some of the worst Star Trek  plots


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 9, 2021)

i like we all talking about the time travel bit


and not the fact that someone thought it was ok to keep a deactivated borg queen in a closet


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 10, 2021)

cybershot said:


> And some of the worst Star Trek  plots



The City on the Edge of Forever 

Yesterday's Enterprise

First Contact

The Voyage Home

Trials and Tribbles

Would disagree.


----------



## CNT36 (Sep 27, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Time travel is cool.  The cop out is the magic space imp.  Fuck sake.  Worst. Thing. Ever.
> 
> I'll watch it though.  It has Seven.  Seven is cool.


Maybe the space imp isn't as responsible for the changes as first responsible. Q is blamed for threats in All Good Things.. and that DS9 that arenot directly his fault. Perhaps it turns out that there is something else going on or the characters themselves are respon... Actually never mind.


----------



## Graymalkin (Sep 28, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Yesterday's Enterprise



Rare example (even in sci fi) of an easily understood and internally consistent time travel plot.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 6, 2022)

Season 2 has just started and for some reason this is still on Amazon prime in the UK. 

Any hoot. Just like season 1 the opener is really strong imo. Which means it can only go downhill again over the course of the season but we shall see. For now a well worth watching season opener.


----------



## Helen Back (Mar 7, 2022)

"We're immortal beings who don't age, but here's why we look older anyway...."


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 7, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Season 2 has just started and for some reason this is still on Amazon prime in the UK.


Why do you say that?


----------



## cybershot (Mar 7, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why do you say that?


Because it's all going to Paramount+ and Discovery was canned from Netflix and put on some weird Pluto thing after an outrage from UK fans that they couldn't watch it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 7, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Because it's all going to Paramount+ and Discovery was canned from Netflix and put on some weird Pluto thing after an outrage from UK fans that they couldn't watch it.


What is paramount plus? Never heard of it, or pluto. Didn't know discovery had left netflix, I always figured I might actually watch that one day, I guess I won't now. Mind you I only got three eps in before I baled on the first go, same with Picard actually (though I did at least look that one up on line to see how it ended).


----------



## Dandred (Mar 8, 2022)

This is pretty good!


----------



## moochedit (Mar 8, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What is paramount plus? Never heard of it, or pluto. Didn't know discovery had left netflix, I always figured I might actually watch that one day, I guess I won't now. Mind you I only got three eps in before I baled on the first go, same with Picard actually (though I did at least look that one up on line to see how it ended).


Paramount plus hasn't launched in the uk yet but i believe it is due to launch here in a few months. It is yet another streaming service. It is already launched in the usa.

Discovery was pulled from netflix and moved to paramount plus a few days before it was due to start the current series. After fans outside the usa kicked up a fuss it was moved to "pluto" as a stop gap (outside usa) until paramount plus launches. Problem with pluto is you have to watch it "live" at 9pm on fri/sat or sun. So like being back in the 1970s pre-video!


----------



## moochedit (Mar 8, 2022)

Also pluto is a free advertising funded website pluto.tv with various channels to watch.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 8, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Paramount plus hasn't launched in the uk yet but i believe it is due to launch here in a few months. It is yet another streaming service. It is already launched in the usa.
> 
> Discovery was pulled from netflix and moved to paramount plus a few days before it was due to start the current series. After fans outside the usa kicked up a fuss it was moved to "pluto" as a stop gap (outside usa) until paramount plus launches. Problem with pluto is you have to watch it "live" at 9pm on fri/sat or sun. So like being back in the 1970s pre-video!


So I expect everyone will be going the illegal route instead . 
Is Pluto a Freeview thing or like a digital streamer but with specific times?


----------



## moochedit (Mar 8, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> So I expect everyone will be going the illegal route instead .
> Is Pluto a Freeview thing or like a digital streamer but with specific times?


Pluto is an andriod phone app avaiable from google play (which you can cast to a chromecast) or you can just go to pluto.tv in a web browser on a pc. I think there are some "on demand" shows but discovery is only live. It is free but shows ads.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 8, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Paramount plus hasn't launched in the uk yet but i believe it is due to launch here in a few months. It is yet another streaming service. It is already launched in the usa.
> 
> Discovery was pulled from netflix and moved to paramount plus a few days before it was due to start the current series. After fans outside the usa kicked up a fuss it was moved to "pluto" as a stop gap (outside usa) until paramount plus launches. Problem with pluto is you have to watch it "live" at 9pm on fri/sat or sun. So like being back in the 1970s pre-video!



Kicked up a fuss? It's a *relief* that I haven't been able to watch Burnham gurning and crying for another season.


----------



## Dandred (Mar 10, 2022)

Q the music! 

Another great episode!


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 10, 2022)

I enjoyed this week's more, and last week's was damn good.


----------



## moochedit (Mar 11, 2022)

Spoiler: Spoiler



so what are they going to change in 2024 to fix the Q altered time line? Trumps re-election?


----------



## Signal 11 (Mar 11, 2022)

moochedit said:


> Spoiler: Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> so what are they going to change in 2024 to fix the Q altered time line? Trumps re-election?





Spoiler


----------



## T & P (Mar 11, 2022)

ruffneck23 said:


> I enjoyed this week's more, and last week's was damn good.


Very strong start to this season, that’s for sure


----------



## Dandred (Mar 17, 2022)

This one was a bit meh, playing on an old trope.


----------



## strung out (Apr 30, 2022)

Well this series went downhill quickly. Last episode absolutely garbage.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 30, 2022)

It’s all over the place. Like every episode was written by a new person who had only been told how the last one ended. The TV equivalent of that game where you draw a body part and then fold the paper over for the next person.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 30, 2022)

I haven’t started watching it yet.
Should I bother?


----------



## BoxRoom (Apr 30, 2022)

8ball said:


> I haven’t started watching it yet.
> Should I bother?


Wanting to like something is what led me to continue watching it and I wish I hadn't bothered.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 30, 2022)

BoxRoom said:


> Wanting to like something is what led me to continue watching it and I wish I hadn't bothered.



Fair enough, looks like you’ve saved me a few hours.


----------



## BoxRoom (Apr 30, 2022)

8ball said:


> Fair enough, looks like you’ve saved me a few hours.


I hope so! I would hate to find out if you watched it and loved it though. I'm still optimistic that people don't make stuff like this to be shit. But it is.


----------



## T & P (May 1, 2022)

8ball said:


> I haven’t started watching it yet.
> Should I bother?


Only if you feel that instead of space stuff and general sci-fi action, you would like the next Star Trek series to be a bizarre second-rate Freudian drama about unresolved childhood issues.


----------



## kabbes (May 1, 2022)

I wouldn’t mind it being about unresolved childhood issues if it was done well but this is done terribly. And there is plenty of action but it is all done terribly as well. The shame of it is that the first couple of episodes are quite good and look like they’re setting up an interesting story. Then they go off at 90 degrees. 

There are some good moments and some good scenes but the odd gem is not worth the chaff.


----------



## donkyboy (May 1, 2022)

I gave up after a few early episodes of season 1. I heard that in season 2 that whale woman from voyage home is in it?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2022)

I'd genuinely rather watch a show about an old man who used to be a great space captain but now just runs a vineyard.  
Now and then his famous diplomacy skills in bigger events are called upon, but this is sparingly mixed in with him sourcing a replacement part for his old space teapot. We are drip fed details of his last years in starfleet. Holo deck/Transporter tech episodes at Halloween and christmas.


----------



## kabbes (May 2, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'd genuinely rather watch a show about an old man who used to be a great space captain but now just runs a vineyard.
> Now and then his famous diplomacy skills in bigger events are called upon, but this is sparingly mixed in with him sourcing a replacement part for his old space teapot. We are drip fed details of his last years in starfleet. Holo deck/Transporter tech episodes at Halloween and christmas.


That sounds like proper Star Trek to me.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2022)

kabbes said:


> That sounds like proper Star Trek to me.


Actually yes. Even if he was kept on at starfleet as a day to day diplomat but had a vineyard on the side. It would be just like DS9 but in the ground. . . . . or maybe he could have a deep space vineyard outpost. 
All these new shows seem waaaay off the mark, and despite being injected with bombast as seemingly exciting action content, they are just straight up boring.  It's insane that a parody show like Orville is more star trek than star trek.


----------



## Cerv (May 2, 2022)

24th century vineyard.
occasional diplomat or advisor.
visiting lecturer at Starfleet Academy. 
catching up with old comrades.

all of these would have been better than what we got given.


----------



## agricola (May 2, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'd genuinely rather watch a show about an old man who used to be a great space captain but now just runs a vineyard.
> Now and then his famous diplomacy skills in bigger events are called upon, but this is sparingly mixed in with him sourcing a replacement part for his old space teapot. We are drip fed details of his last years in starfleet. Holo deck/Transporter tech episodes at Halloween and christmas.



100% agree with this.   I've not watched any of season two, on the grounds that season one was disappointing (though there were some ok bits)

Sorry for repeating a point I've made a couple of times but one of the best Picard TNG episodes (possibly the best) is the one where he goes home to his brother, after the Borg have almost destroyed him.  That should have been where they based this off of - an aged Picard, suffering from everything that he did / was done to him in his career, confronted with an oblivious French countryside and a Federation that has moved on.  With decent writers (which admittedly don't appear to exist given how season 1 went and how season 2 has been described) it could have been brilliant and a fitting response to some of the frothy CGI madness that has taken over the franchise.


----------



## kabbes (May 2, 2022)

I'm not convinced that the writers have even _seen_ TNG.  They've been given a list of characters and a bullet-point list of the key moments.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 2, 2022)

agricola said:


> 100% agree with this.   I've not watched any of season two, on the grounds that season one was disappointing (though there were some ok bits)
> 
> Sorry for repeating a point I've made a couple of times but one of the best Picard TNG episodes (possibly the best) is the one where he goes home to his brother, after the Borg have almost destroyed him.  That should have been where they based this off of - an aged Picard, suffering from everything that he did / was done to him in his career, confronted with an oblivious French countryside and a Federation that has moved on.  With decent writers (which admittedly don't appear to exist given how season 1 went and how season 2 has been described) it could have been brilliant and a fitting response to some of the frothy CGI madness that has taken over the franchise.


It's the character and universe he existed in that was good, that's why they could get away with all that holodeck nonsense. 
I really want to see my version of the show now. . . but written by the Better Call Saul writers.


----------



## sojourner (May 4, 2022)

kabbes said:


> It’s all over the place. Like every episode was written by a new person who had only been told how the last one ended. The TV equivalent of that game where you draw a body part and then fold the paper over for the next person.


Perfect description of it.


----------



## 8ball (May 4, 2022)

sojourner said:


> Perfect description of it.



Sounds a lot like Quantum Leap.


----------



## sojourner (May 4, 2022)

8ball said:


> Sounds a lot like Quantum Leap.


Which I used to love, but at least then there was a reason for it!


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 4, 2022)

I just don't _get_ it. It's just weird how they could go anywhere in space and they're stuck pissing about on earth and teaming up for adventures. Several of them have arguably utterly shat on the temporal prime directive.


----------



## kabbes (May 4, 2022)

There are just so many plot threads.

We started with unrequited love (with a woman who had a husband last time we saw her but since died offscreen)
We then went to the promise of new adventures of a space cadet (Elnor)
Then we jumped to a spacetime anomaly.
From which came a weird new Borg queen
Then we were suddenly in a parallel timestream, in which humanity was an evil empire (but the same people still existed just with different personalities)
Then we went back in time (but we never found out how humanity became that evil empire)
Then we had a subplot with horrible emigration people, which just stopped abruptly
And there was something about an underfunded clinic, which we stopped paying attention to
Oh look, Guinan
Now we have to care about Picard’s ancestor going to space
And there’s Data’s creator’s ancestor too
Who also has a genetically-engineered daughter
And he’s now the bad guy
Q has lost his powers
Shit, now the Borg queen is the bad guy
Christobal has a romantic thing going on
And now the big plot is Picard’s childhood

And that’s just off the top of my head, I’ve probably missed a load.

From that shit, just pick an A-plot and a B-plot for the love of Roddenberry


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## kabbes (May 4, 2022)

Oh yeah, there’s also somebody called a “watcher” that is watching Picard’s ancestor for some reason.
And she looks like the unrequited love interest, for no apparent reason.


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## SpookyFrank (May 4, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'd genuinely rather watch a show about an old man who used to be a great space captain but now just runs a vineyard.
> Now and then his famous diplomacy skills in bigger events are called upon, but this is sparingly mixed in with him sourcing a replacement part for his old space teapot. We are drip fed details of his last years in starfleet. Holo deck/Transporter tech episodes at Halloween and christmas.



We've already seen old Picard in his vineyard on TNG. They should've left him there. 

Recent iterations of Trek have repeatedly made the entire starfleet/federation/galaxy dependent on some maverick saviour or other, which kind of shits on the whole ethos of the thing IMO.


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## 8ball (May 4, 2022)

catsbum said:


> I just don't _get_ it. It's just weird how they could go anywhere in space and they're stuck pissing about on earth and teaming up for adventures. Several of them have arguably utterly shat on the temporal prime directive.



Doctor Who would practically (no, literally) _never_ be on contemporary Earth, or rather here at all, if that rule was followed.

He’s a niche xenophile weirdo.


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## T & P (May 5, 2022)

8ball said:


> Sounds a lot like Quantum Leap.


If only!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 5, 2022)

Exactly as RLM


T & P said:


> If only!


Never understood the love of quantum leap,  as a kid when it first aired I thought it was shit. Trouble was there was nothing else on and it was vaguely sci-fi so obviously I watched most of them (though I must have given up at some point because I never saw how it ended). 

. . . and a 'Quantum' Leap? Surely that would be the tiniest imperceivable movement?


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## kabbes (May 5, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> . . . and a 'Quantum' Leap? Surely that would be the tiniest imperceivable movement?


Technically, I think it would mean a leap between two states that have a discontinuity between them.  The distance is not relevant to it being two quanta.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 5, 2022)

kabbes said:


> Technically, I think it would mean a leap between two states that have a discontinuity between them.  The distance is not relevant to it being two quanta.


You mean a disconnected change in state? Surely it would still be on a quantum level so not perhaps Scott Backula sized. 

I'll bet the series title and pop culture has already changed the actually meaning anyway.


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## kabbes (May 5, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You mean a disconnected change in state? Surely it would still be on a quantum level so not perhaps Scott Backula sized.
> 
> I'll bet the series title and pop culture has already changed the actually meaning anyway.


Quantum can refer to states of energy but it more generically just refers to discrete states of some measurable quantity.


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## CNT36 (May 5, 2022)

There was a moment at the beginning of the episode where I thought that the borg conflict would spread bringing in the authorities. Once the threat is dealt with awareness of an extraterrestrial threat accelerates various tendencies and Earth get ready to fuck up any aliens that visit or they bump into given an advantage by salvaged Borg and Confederation tech left lying around. Good work Picard you done this.


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## kabbes (May 5, 2022)

CNT36 said:


> There was a moment at the beginning of the episode where I thought that the borg conflict would spread bringing in the authorities. Once the threat is dealt with awareness of an extraterrestrial threat accelerates various tendencies and Earth get ready to fuck up any aliens that visit or they bump into given an advantage by salvaged Borg and Confederation tech left lying around. Good work Picard you done this.


The problem is that by doing this, they would actually tie together some of the plot threads and present a reason for something having happened.  Heaven forbid.


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## CNT36 (May 5, 2022)

kabbes said:


> The problem is that by doing this, they would actually tie together some of the plot threads and present a reason for something having happened.  Heaven forbid.


Obviously that isn't going to happen.
The making friends with the borg queen was very Star Trek in its way. Possibly the most trek thing they have done on Picard. It was of course handled terribly. Not a fan of the Borg queen especially talking about 'myself' and being a leader rather than a unique part of the collective or a mere means of communication like what was done with  Locutus or Seven of nine.. Several of them have arguably utterly shat on the temporal prime directive.


catsbum said:


> Several of them have arguably utterly shat on the temporal prime directive.



One of them stabbed it in the face.



SpookyFrank said:


> Recent iterations of Trek have repeatedly made the entire starfleet/federation/galaxy dependent on some maverick saviour or other, which kind of shits on the whole ethos of the thing IMO.


I much preferred Q when he spent time making sure Picard know just how insignificant his own life was.


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## Signal 11 (May 5, 2022)

Spoiler: season 2, episode 10



tfw u didn't make a backup


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## kabbes (May 6, 2022)

I don’t know who this character is supposed to have been, but he definitely wasn’t Jean-Luc Picard


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## strung out (May 6, 2022)

Trailer for season 3, cynically doing enough to make me still keep on watching despite the dumpster fire of the last two seasons.


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## T & P (May 7, 2022)

Signal 11 said:


> Spoiler: season 2, episode 10
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Further S10 spoiler 



Spoiler



Wheaaatoooon!


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## kabbes (May 7, 2022)

So what was Q’s actual plan, then, when you look at it from his subjective frame of reference?

For now, let’s ignore the paradox that the events Q put into place had _already happened _by the start of the series, since it was _already Agnes_ that had emerged from the anomaly.  And Rios had _already stayed in the past_ and inspired his stepson to do the very things that made the future as we already know it.  Yet when Q made his past change, this resulted in a different time line.  Doesn’t make sense.

Anyway, Q’s plan. How did he intend for it to work?  Go back and do everything he can to stop Renee from going to space. Try clicking his fingers. When that doesn’t work, perform some psychological malpractice. When that doesn’t work, try to get some random doctor (why Soon?   Why is he the guy for the job?) to stop Picard from reaching Renee. (And when that doesn’t work, go and break out Soon’s daughter?   Why?  How does that help his plan?)

All of that is directed apparently towards making Earth a bunch of cunts. Why?  Apparently, purely to help Picard face his demons. But there was no _reason_ why any of Q’s actions would lead to that outcome. It was a lucky coincidence!  Some things happened to take place through sheer happenstance that realised that outcome. For a start, everything that happened in the alternative timeline that led to them being able to go back in time (with Elnor and only Elnor dead ) — total clusterfuck  of coincidences. Then, having gone back in time, they had to land in the vineyard.  Picard had to lose consciousness,  The watcher had to choose to go into his coma. The Borg queen and Agnes had to do their entire story arc. And so on and so on and so on.

It’s such a convoluted path. Did Q really know in advance that _every step of that_ was going to happen exactly as it happened?  If so, how come he was surprised by things like his failed finger snap? He needed every moment to play out exactly as it played out for the timing to come together as it did. He couldn’t afford to be surprised by anything.

Absolute bullshit story even by its own logic.


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## cybershot (May 7, 2022)

strung out said:


> Trailer for season 3, cynically doing enough to make me still keep on watching despite the dumpster fire of the last two seasons.



"Well, they hate it, what can we do now"
"Just do what Star Wars and Ghostbusters did and just go all in on the fan service"


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## kabbes (May 25, 2022)

I do like a bit of Mike and Rich. Anyway, having watched this latest of theirs, I now realise that the plot of Picard season 2 makes even _less_ sense than I had previously noticed. None of it stands up to any thought whatsoever. Like why would the borg queen try to recruit Soon, when she knows that he is the one that brings about the timeline that destroys the Borg?  How does Soon — a geneticist — build and programme four drones in a night?  And that’s just for a very start (and ignoring all the ways that this conflicts with everything that we know from TNG).


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 25, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I do like a bit of Mike and Rich. Anyway, having watched this latest of theirs, I now realise that the plot of Picard season 2 makes even _less_ sense than I had previously noticed. None of it stands up to any thought whatsoever. Like why would the birth queen try to recruit Soon, when she knows that he is the one that brings about the timeline that destroys the Borg?  How does Soon — a geneticist — build and programme four drones in a night?  And that’s just for a very start (and ignoring all the ways that this conflicts with everything that we know from TNG).




I have not watched beyond episode two of the first series, but I have managed to follow all of Mike and Rich's you tubes about it. A bit long and self indulgent but almost certainly more interesting than watching the series itself. 
What a waste of good characters.


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## moochedit (May 25, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I do like a bit of Mike and Rich. Anyway, having watched this latest of theirs, I now realise that the plot of Picard season 2 makes even _less_ sense than I had previously noticed. None of it stands up to any thought whatsoever. Like why would the birth queen try to recruit Soon, when she knows that he is the one that brings about the timeline that destroys the Borg?  How does Soon — a geneticist — build and programme four drones in a night?  And that’s just for a very start (and ignoring all the ways that this conflicts with everything that we know from TNG).



The queen gets asked about why she is helping soon in one episode and says that because the borg know about the "confederation" they will be ready for them this time round.


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## kabbes (May 25, 2022)

moochedit said:


> The queen gets asked about why she is helping soon in one episode and says that because the borg know about the "confederation" they will be ready for them this time round.


And that’s better for the Borg than allowing an Earth to develop that is peaceful?  Why?

Even if it were simply neutral, what could the Borg queen possibly have been wanting from Soon?  How was his involvement helpful to her in any way?

The answer, of course, is that the writers just wanted a cartoon supervillain and Soon was it. So everything bad had to involve him, no matter how illogical.


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## krtek a houby (May 26, 2022)

donkyboy said:


> I gave up after a few early episodes of season 1. I heard that in season 2 that whale woman from voyage home is in it?



Yep. Catherine Hicks, Ricardo Montalban and William Shatner. Some great cameos.


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