# Derren Brown - how he does it *spoilers



## ska invita (Jan 14, 2009)

Fun show last night (Night of Wonders) - for me its fun to work out how the tricks are done, though you should just let it lie and enjoy the show. I've worked out how about 3/4 of the tricks are done (i think!) 

If you want to know versions, read on...

Likewise, if you have any better theories please post them.

*Gorrila trick*

This was great, but a quick rewind show how it was done:

he goes over to the board, throws over the flip chart, and at the same time moving to behind the flip chart stand. The audience spends a second reading the revealed sign, not really noticing that he has gone behind the board. A hand immediately appears as on top of the board, giving the impression it is Derren's hand - this is a stage hands hand, who is taking Derren's place.

THe fact that Derren has a mic on means he can talk all the way through, without his voice appearing off stage.

If you see it a second time its obvious. Great old school trick though - I say old school, but Im not sure it could be done wihtout a mic, as you could tell his voice is off stage.

*Table Turning*

Derren does a lot of hypnosis tricks, and this was one of them. Hypnosis, especially on unsuspecting victims, is very dangerous, and for the record I dont approve!

First off, the hypnosis:

He gets 12 people up on stage, and as they come up one by one he tries a very quick hypnosis on them. This wont work on everyone, but it will on a few. How to check who is hypnotised? Using the dangling string thing...

As they all dangle a string those who are hypnotised will begin to spin their strings using the Ideomotor effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect

The 9succesfully hypnotised) spinning string people are then singled out for the table pushing act.

The key here is having 4 hypnotised people pushing a table around *on command*. At all times there are commands from Derren, and then later the other members of the audience on stage, telling them where to push the table.

The later floating table bit requires a trick table cloth and the same principle.

...have to do some work now, but more solutions later 

P.S> that show The Hiest was not, as Derren pretended, at all to do with suggestion (billboards saying rob a bank etc.), it was all hypnosis.


*500 or 5000*

Most of this trick is just patter and showmanship - which is enjoyable, and is designed to get the most out of the trick.

Ultimately it is simple: the box is a trick box which can show either 500 or 5000 pounds. Just before he took off the cover his hand linger on the top of the box and looked like it was pressing a button. This makes any necessary switch. Never trust a box in a magic show!

Then he goes to the flipchart and reveals - "Why do men always choose £5000". Its pretty likely that on another page it said "Why do people always change their minds" or whatever.

There probably is an element of steering going on on the chatty bits.

*The Dad Phonecall*

Here he gets someone to call their dad and guess 3 digit numbers. AS it is impossible to predict what three numbers will be chosen the trick goes "wrong", and Derren fails to guess the numbers.

The serial number on the £10 note that has the correct 9 digit number would have to be made with a fairly simple stamp in the wings. AS the numbers are written up, so they would be added to the note. Then its just a simple task of getting the newly stamped note to Derren.

All through the trick he keeps walking over to the flipchart, fiddling about with the microphone, and generaly acting eratic. This is to distract the audience from the fake note being set up near/on the flipchart. 

Derren walks over to the flip chart once after all the numbers are up on the board and pockets it.As its folded up so small it is easy to palm and conceal.

*20 Questions *

The giveaway with 20 Questions was that the 6 people had to write down the answers on a bit of paper at the back of the stage. One way or another (either using cameras or something under the table on which the notes where written) the information that was written down was noted imediately by helpers off-stage.

THey then quickly write on a big sign 1. UFO 2. WHIP etc.

The 6 memebers of the public are brought to the front of the stage. Derren then makes an excuse to go to the table at the back - at that point he looks off stage to see the sign saying who wrote what. He quickly remembers this and can then fuck about pretending to ask questions, already knowing full well who got what.


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## Pip (Jan 14, 2009)

Is this a clever mind trick?


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

I want to know how he knew personal histories, like "you're thinking about dying your hair".  He said that twice.  Do women just always think about dying their hair?  Like saying to a man "you've recently thought about Konnie Huq"?


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## Pip (Jan 14, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> I want to know how he knew personal histories, like "you're thinking about dying your hair".  He said that twice.  Do women just always think about dying their hair?  Like saying to a man "you've recently thought about Konnie Huq"?



I'd say so, yeah.


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## ska invita (Jan 14, 2009)

*Gorrila trick*

This was great, but a quick rewind show how it was done:

he goes over to the board, throws over the flip chart, and at the same time moving to behind the flip chart stand. The audience spends a second reading the revealed sign, not really noticing that he has gone behind the board. A hand immediately appears as on top of the board, giving the impression it is Derren's hand - this is a stage hands hand, who is taking Derren's place.

THe fact that Derren has a mic on means he can talk all the way through, without his voice appearing off stage.

If you see it a second time its obvious. Great old school trick though - I say old school, but Im not sure it could be done wihtout a mic, as you could tell his voice is off stage.


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## 5t3IIa (Jan 14, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> I want to know how he knew personal histories, like "you're thinking about dying your hair".  He said that twice.  Do women just always think about dying their hair?  Like saying to a man "you've recently thought about Konnie Huq"?



I saw a show of his where he guess what animal someone was thinking about (llama)...then revealed that there were a few pics of llamas in the lobby where we came in.


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## fogbat (Jan 14, 2009)

It was bloody clever, that's for sure.

Might be a coincidence, but I was thinking "mouse" very early on when he was playing 20 questions with one woman.


Someone else to add to the "Eat their brains and get their powarz" list


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## ska invita (Jan 14, 2009)

*Table Turning*

Derren does a lot of hypnosis tricks, and this was one of them. Hypnosis, especially on unsuspecting victims, is very dangerous, and for the record I dont approve!

First off, the hypnosis:

He gets 12 people up on stage, and as they come up one by one he tries a very quick hypnosis on them. This wont work on everyone, but it will on a few. How to check who is hypnotised? Using the dangling string thing...

As they all dangle a string those who are hypnotised will begin to spin their strings using the Ideomotor effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect

The 9succesfully hypnotised) spinning string people are then singled out for the table pushing act.

The key here is having 4 hypnotised people pushing a table around *on command*. At all times there are commands from Derren, and then later the other members of the audience on stage, telling them where to push the table.

The later floating table bit requires a trick table cloth and the same principle.

...have to do some work now, but more solutions later 

P.S> that show The Hiest was not, as Derren pretended, at all to do with suggestion (billboards saying rob a bank etc.), it was all hypnosis.


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

These are the obvious tricks.  I was hoping that you would tell me how he managed to guess UFO and whip in 20 questions.


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> These are the obvious tricks.  I was hoping that you would tell me how he managed to guess UFO and whip in 20 questions.



he had one of these in his pocketsies:


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

Is it bigger than a piano?

IF YES ===> UFO
IF NO ===> MOUSE


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## bluestreak (Jan 14, 2009)

Remember that Derren has a fantastic memory (his library trick comes to mind).  And then remember that 90% of that audience booked tickets with a credit card.  And that it isn't difficult to get information about people once you have their name, address, credit card details and whatnot.

So he's memorised a certain proportion of the audience and a few relevant details about them, which he can then use.  And that's the easy part, FFS!  How he does the other stuff is even more incredible, cold reading, the fact that each audience gives similar responses, body language, giving hints, etc.

Also remember that smoke and mirrors are a good part, distraction, changing things around.  I understand the principles behind it but it's done so well that no matter how hard you look, you're still impressed.  The man is a fecking genius innit.


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> I understand the principles behind it but it's done so well that no matter how hard you look, you're still impressed.  The man is a fecking genius innit.



^^^^innit


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, the table trick is pretty straightforward, and old school.  But a good demonstration of why you shouldn't be taken in by Mystics and Mediums.  I've seen a woman - totally convinced of her own genuineness - do a similar thing on herself!


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

I have a Derren Question.  All those little head shakes and nods he does -- are they just tics or are they a crucial part of his techniques?


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## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> (his library trick comes to mind)



what was that, I  dont recall it.


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## bluestreak (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> I have a Derren Question. All those little head shakes and nods he does -- are they just tics or are they a crucial part of his techniques?


 
According to my slightly obsessed housemate, crucial part of his body language, controlling and whatnot.  I got bored of him explaining it and shut down.



belboid said:


> what was that, I dont recall it.


 
Apparently he got someone to pick a book at random from a library and then a page, and then a paragraph, and then Derren read it word for word.  The explanation was his prodigious memory and the academic tricks he uses to retain information.  Again, I stopped listening shortly afterwards, not because the subject matter wasn't itneresting but because I just wanted to watch the show without some loudmouth fanboy getting in the way!


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> I have a Derren Question.  All those little head shakes and nods he does -- are they just tics or are they a crucial part of his techniques?


I noticed them for the first time last night.  I asked on the other thread if he has early Parkinsons.  I've watched him for years and never noticed this before, has he always done it?


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## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> Apparently he got someone to pick a book at random from a library and then a page, and then a paragraph, and then Derren read it word for word.  The explanation was his prodigious memory and the academic tricks he uses to retain information.  Again, I stopped listening shortly afterwards, not because the subject matter wasn't itneresting but because I just wanted to watch the show without some loudmouth fanboy getting in the way!



aah, that does sound familiar, I just wouldn't have called it a 'library trick'. 

I must see if my old housemate Diane watches Derren, she used to work with her dad as a magicians assistant, be interesting to see how many of the tricks she would know.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

ska invita said:


> *Table Turning*
> 
> Derren does a lot of hypnosis tricks, and this was one of them.



Wrong.  The whole trick is the ideomotor effect, nothing more, no hypnosis required.*  The bit where it comes up off the floor is just a standard magic trick.

*Well, you can argue that by being on a stage in front of a lot of people they are more open to suggestion due to the effective "peer pressure", but it's certainly not what would usually be referred to as hypnosis.






bluestreak said:


> Remember that Derren has a fantastic memory (his library trick comes to mind).  And then remember that 90% of that audience booked tickets with a credit card.  And that it isn't difficult to get information about people once you have their name, address, credit card details and whatnot.
> 
> So he's memorised a certain proportion of the audience and a few relevant details about them, which he can then use.  And that's the easy part, FFS!  How he does the other stuff is even more incredible, cold reading, the fact that each audience gives similar responses, body language, giving hints, etc.



Yep, a combination of "hot" and "cold" reading.  He is the best I've ever seen at it though 



kabbes said:


> I have a Derren Question.  All those little head shakes and nods he does -- are they just tics or are they a crucial part of his techniques?



Very much open to debate, I guess the only person that knows for sure is Derren himself.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> Apparently he got someone to pick a book *at random* from a library and then a page, and then a paragraph, and then Derren read it word for word



The choice being anything but random of course


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## bluestreak (Jan 14, 2009)

Of course, because he hasn't memorised all the books.


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## Griff (Jan 14, 2009)

Watched some of it.

So how did he do that one where he had his head covered and was gussing people's star-signs and all sorts of other stuff about them. 

What was the finale, I was a bit pissed and went to bed.


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## spirals (Jan 14, 2009)

My current manshape is a magician and he hates Derren with a passion and I watched Derren's magic show a few weeks ago with my man muttering and insulting Derren and also explaining how everything was done and how he could of done it so much better the entire way through.  I had to hide my giggles as this was clearly a deep seated hatred requiring years of therapy and I, as a mere mortal was not willing to go there


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

Griff said:


> So how did he do that one where he had his head covered and was gussing people's star-signs and all sorts of other stuff about them.



He'd memorised the info about them before the show.


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

spirals said:


> My current manshape is a magician and he hates Derren with a passion and I watched Derren's magic show a few weeks ago with my man muttering and insulting Derren and also explaining how everything was done and *how he could of done it so much better the entire way through.*  I had to hide my giggles as this was clearly a deep seated hatred requiring years of therapy and I, as a mere mortal was not willing to go there



Then how come he isn't famous then??

@manshape


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> Of course, because he hasn't memorised all the books.



I'd be interested to know just how many books/passages of books he did have to memorise for it to work.  He is very good at forcing peoples choices, but I assume he has some flexibility built into the routine...


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

Most magicians I know or have spoken to -- no, scratch that -- _all_ magicians that I know or have spoken to think that Derren Brown is fabulous.  I am surprised that your fella has such a grudge.


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## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> He'd memorised the info about them before the show.



Where did he get the info from?  There was a disclaimer about no contact before the show and, additionally, a bit fortunate that the frisbees hit the people he had memorised ain't it?


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## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> Most magicians I know or have spoken to -- no, scratch that -- _all_ magicians that I know or have spoken to think that Derren Brown is fabulous.  I am surprised that your fella has such a grudge.



I think he is fucking brilliant and I was mega sceptical before I saw that show of his where he has subliminally planted the answers audiences members will give throughout the show.  That, for me, was even more impressive than last night's one which finally won round mrs ken.  Hopefully gonna go and see his next show now.

How many magician mates you got, anyway?


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## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> Most magicians I know or have spoken to -- no, scratch that -- _all_ magicians that I know or have spoken to think that Derren Brown is fabulous.  I am surprised that your fella has such a grudge.



sounds kinda like the attitude of my brother (who writes teenage fiction) towards that Rowling woman - 'no, she isn't any good, her plotting is terrible.  No, I'm not jealous of her in any way shape or from.'


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## Griff (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> Where did he get the info from?  There was a disclaimer about no contact before the show and, additionally, a bit fortunate that the frisbees hit the people he had memorised ain't it?



Especially as he had a bandage on his head too.


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> How many magician mates you got, anyway?


Two and an 'alf.  Or possibly 3 and a quarter, depending on how you count 'em.

I always getting chatting to them at events, though.  I love magic, me.


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## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

I also think he is great for the way he goes out of his way to completely debunk mystics and psychics who are a pox on the world and long overdue a severe arsekicking and imprisonment for fraud.


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, me too.  He is my hero for that, if nothing else.


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## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> Two and an 'alf.  Or possibly 3 and a quarter, depending on how you count 'em.
> 
> I always getting chatting to them at events, though.  I love magic, me.



I know one, but I don't like him   He's a love rat magician.


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## spirals (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> Then how come he isn't famous then??


  How do you know he isn't famous?

But I did ask him that and got muttered at too   As far as I can make out his gripe is that Derren Brown is not a better magician than a lot of the ones currently on the scene, he is just far better 'packaged'.  Also Derren originally was a magician (his first book on magic was recalled and is hugely valuable because of this) and then vanished (in a puff of smoke no doubt) before reappearing as a spooky super cool mind reader and this has gotten up a few old school type magician noses.

*ETA*  And he's jealous of course  I don't think it helped that they have met several times and Derren came across as quite arrogant.  I've never met him so can't comment on that.


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## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> Yeah, me too.  He is my hero for that, if nothing else.



That is what I use to win people round to him and it usually works.  Dunno why I am so bothered but it annoys me that people associate him with people like Blaine etc. when is completely different.


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## moomoo (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> He'd memorised the info about them before the show.





Sadken said:


> Where did he get the info from?  There was a disclaimer about no contact before the show and, additionally, a bit fortunate that the frisbees hit the people he had memorised ain't it?



Well, quite.

How would he know someone had just dyed their hair or that they were thinking about going to live in America?


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

spirals said:


> As far as I can make out his gripe is that Derren Brown is not a better magician than a lot of the ones currently on the scene, he is just far better 'packaged'.  Also Derren originally was a magician (his first book on magic was recalled and is hugely valuable because of this) and then vanished (in a puff of smoke no doubt) before reappearing as a spooky super cool mind reader and this has gotten up a few old school type magician noses.



This is precisely why the magicians I know like him, though.  He's found a fab new way of presenting the same old rubbish.  And he's made magic popular again as a consequence.  Most magicians would take the view that anything that increases the appeal of the Art is, on balance, a good thing.


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## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> Two and an 'alf.  Or possibly 3 and a quarter, depending on how the sawing tricks gone


corrected for you


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## elevendayempire (Jan 14, 2009)

spirals said:


> Also Derren originally was a magician (his first book on magic was recalled and is hugely valuable because of this)


Though it's a piece of piss to find it on the torrents.


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> corrected for you


I like it.

(The mundane explanation is that I know four people that indulge in magic.  Some of them take it seriously and some of them are proper friends, hence my flippant arithmetic)


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## fogbat (Jan 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> sounds kinda like the attitude of my brother (who writes teenage fiction) towards that Rowling woman - 'no, she isn'y any good, her plotting terrible.  No, I'm not jealous of her in any way shape or from.'



To be fair, he has a point about Rowling.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

moomoo said:


> Well, quite.
> 
> How would he know someone had just dyed their hair or that they were thinking about going to live in America?


He's quite brilliant.  The people who amuse me are the ones who say "It's just a trick, you know"  Of course it's a fecking trick, but it's a good one.


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

spirals said:


> How do you know he isn't famous?
> 
> But I did ask him that and got muttered at too   As far as I can make out his gripe is that Derren Brown is not a better magician than a lot of the ones currently on the scene, he is just far better 'packaged'.  Also Derren originally was a magician (his first book on magic was recalled and is hugely valuable because of this) and then vanished (in a puff of smoke no doubt) before reappearing as a spooky super cool mind reader and this has gotten up a few old school type magician noses.
> 
> *ETA*  And he's jealous of course



The greatness with Derren is that he's not JUST a magician, but a Great showman, a hypnotist, tell reader, etc etc


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> The greatness with Derren is that he's not JUST a magician, but a Great showman, a hypnotist, tell reader, etc etc


He's also very funny.

All round one of the greatest performers in living memory, I reckon.


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> He's also very funny.
> 
> All round one of the greatest performers in living memory, I reckon.



absolutely!


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## spirals (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> The greatness with Derren is that he's not JUST a magician, but a Great showman, a hypnotist, tell reader, etc etc



I don't disagree with you.  It was a bit like learning there is no santa claus, having the way its all done explained to you.  Eye opening but my inner child cried


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

I always think the russian roulette thing was a great example of him being such an amazing showman.

The trick was pretty simple for him, just influance someone enough to make them choose the first barrell.

but it's the way he drew it out, the suspense, the fact he made (on purpose) the mistake of firing shot 5.

then left it for ages before quickly firing 6 against his head and 1 into the sandbag.

genius showmanship


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## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> He's also very funny.
> 
> All round one of the greatest performers in living memory, I reckon.



And he balances the showman/fucking weirdo thing absolutely perfectly as well.  Blaine never gets close.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> And he balances the showman/fucking weirdo thing absolutely perfectly as well.  Blaine never gets close.


Not even in the same breath.


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> And he balances the showman/fucking weirdo thing absolutely perfectly as well.  Blaine never gets close.



Blaines not fit to tie D Browns boots!

even though I'm a bit of a blaine fan there is simply no contest!


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> Blaines not fit to tie D Browns boots!
> 
> even though I'm a bit of a blaine fan there is simply no contest!


Blaine just seems to do the boring endurance stuff these days.  Who finds that interesting?  But while his actual magic was pretty good at times, he isn't likeable or engaging enough for me to care.  I think think "OK.  What else you got?"


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## spirals (Jan 14, 2009)

David Blaine scares me. I've no idea why, he just really creeps me out.  I have to turn the tv off if he comes on it.  Which is really odd because I find magic absolutley fascinating and would love to be able to watch him.


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## Awesome Wells (Jan 14, 2009)

Have any religious people tried to kill him yet, since his existence surely is proof that religion is all balls?


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

Awesome Wells said:


> Have any religious people tried to kill him yet, since his existence surely is proof that religion is all balls?


If you watch him closely you'll see him constantly twitching to duck tiny Holy Bullets.


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## Mitre10 (Jan 14, 2009)

moomoo said:


> Well, quite.
> 
> How would he know someone had just dyed their hair or that they were thinking about going to live in America?




I thought the bit where he had the blindfold on was when he was shouting out names and ages: "Is there a 46 year old called Andy" etc.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those people booked with credit cards giving access to their personal details and the ones whose names/ages were called out had social networking sites with plenty of available information about them...

Just one theory anyway.


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

Awesome Wells said:


> Have any religious people tried to kill him yet, since his existence surely is proof that religion is all balls?



My religious theorum is that Jesus was actually a bloke with many of the same skills as Derren.


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## Mitre10 (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The bit where it comes up off the floor is just a standard magic trick.




Yup, known as a Losander table, probably a more expensive version of this:

http://www.losander.com/News.html


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> My religious theorum is that Jesus was actually a bloke with many of the same skills as Derren.


"Is there a Lazarus in the house?  Do you repent your sins?"

_"OMG!  Yes!  Yes, I do!  How could you possibly know?  Amazing!"_


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## Mitre10 (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> These are the obvious tricks.  I was hoping that you would tell me how he managed to guess UFO and whip in 20 questions.




Most of his "guessing what you wrote" games are a version of this:

http://www.fabricedelaure.com/en/clipboard.php


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## Mitre10 (Jan 14, 2009)

And finally, does this locked chest, remianing in full view of the audience look familiar???

http://www.malloymodernmagic.com/master_prediction.htm




An accomplished magician and excellent showman.


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## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> "Is there a Lazarus in the house?  Do you repent your sins?"
> 
> _"OMG!  Yes!  Yes, I do!  How could you possibly know?  Amazing!"_



if he could get Lazarus to answer from where he was when Jesus first met him ,hat would be impressive indeed!


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

Mitre10 said:


> Most of his "guessing what you wrote" games are a version of this:
> 
> http://www.fabricedelaure.com/en/clipboard.php


I am oddly reminded of the time that I found out that "teleportation" tricks are usually simply performed using a pair of identical twins.


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> "Is there a Lazarus in the house?  Do you repent your sins?"
> 
> _"OMG!  Yes!  Yes, I do!  How could you possibly know?  Amazing!"_



Lazarus was clearly a stooge!


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## danny la rouge (Jan 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> if he could get Lazarus to answer from where he was when Jesus first met him ,hat would be impressive indeed!


He was an old family friend, so he wasn't dead first time he met him.

But, yes, if I could write that again I'd chose another Biblical name.


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## fogbat (Jan 14, 2009)

Mitre10 said:


> Most of his "guessing what you wrote" games are a version of this:
> 
> http://www.fabricedelaure.com/en/clipboard.php



I'd imagine he was using more than one technique.

For a while I thought he was using the one-ahead trick for some of the written stuff.

I think the card saying "cock" was a set up card - it wasn't matched to any particular person in the audience.


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## bluestreak (Jan 14, 2009)

Mitre10 said:


> I thought the bit where he had the blindfold on was when he was shouting out names and ages: "Is there a 46 year old called Andy" etc.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those people booked with credit cards giving access to their personal details and the ones whose names/ages were called out had social networking sites with plenty of available information about them...
> 
> Just one theory anyway.


 

That was mine too.  If you have someone's name and location and a facebook account you're in.  In an audience that size, for a man with his memory and cold reading skills, it's a piece of piss.

Not that I'm saying I could do it, of course.  The memory skills and cold reading are nigh on impossible to learn to a decent level but for a man at the top of the game like that....


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> Remember that Derren has a fantastic memory (his library trick comes to mind).  And then remember that 90% of that audience booked tickets with a credit card.  And that it isn't difficult to get information about people once you have their name, address, credit card details and whatnot.



Yes, that occurred to me during the show last night. I only saw a tiny bit. People have booked tickets so potentially he has access to their names, addresses and *seat numbers*. Assuming that a reasonable number of people have distinctive names, you can find a fair bit of information about quite a few of them using the interweb that will bring up stories in local papers, etc.

Wasn't there something about someone winning a house. That would be all over the Interweb.

Edit: reading some more posts above -- Oh, yeah, and Facebook and stuff!


----------



## Yetman (Jan 14, 2009)

If you are trying to get someone to agree with you or open themselves up to suggestion, nodding at them prompts them to nod back, which automatically puts them in a suggestive state - Derren is so used to doing this with people he constantly nods, so it looks like a tic.

The guy who won a competition for the house in France........simply searching on peoples names and locations on google (from their credit card details) to see if they were in the news recently for anything will provide that sort of info straight away. You can see who's been allocated which seat number as well so know where to throw the frizbee so you can hone in on certain people with stuff you've learned beforehand. Having a great memory helps but learning interesting things (rather than boring stuff like their name is John) means they'll stick in your head a lot more as well.


----------



## Mitre10 (Jan 14, 2009)

fogbat said:


> I'd imagine he was using more than one technique.





Oh yeah definitely, I know the tricks are out there but have no idea how they are actually done.

Like that chest with the predictions about the girl at the end (white shoes, stripey top etc). Its obvious he pre-selected her and wrote all that stuff about her on the scroll of paper.

Its also clear that he faked writing that number 23 on the paper till he heard what she said. Probably the way he did this was the paper had some kind of carbon element and he wrote 23 on it after she said 20 using his fingernail behind his back. If you recall, he even said "excuse my writing, its a bit crap" when faking writing his number down to excuse the fact his numbers might look a bit wonky.

How the other stuff gets on the scroll on the box though I have no idea, doubtless if I spend $3K through that link above it'll let me know but that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.


----------



## Yetman (Jan 14, 2009)

Paul Russell said:


> Yes, that occurred to me during the show last night. I only saw a tiny bit. People have booked tickets so potentially he has access to their names, addresses and *seat numbers*. Assuming that a reasonable number of people have distinctive names, you can find a fair bit of information about quite a few of them using the interweb that will bring up stories in local papers, etc.
> 
> Wasn't there something about someone winning a house. That would be all over the Interweb.



Alright how the fuck did you just predict my post


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 14, 2009)

Yetman said:


> Alright how the fuck did you just predict my post



Ha ha. Great minds. I think quite a few people watching have rumbled him. I think I read in one of his books about how "psychics" have always scoured local papers, etc. to get details about their audience.


----------



## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

Paul Russell said:


> Yes, that occurred to me during the show last night. I only saw a tiny bit. People have booked tickets so potentially he has access to their names, addresses and *seat numbers*. Assuming that a reasonable number of people have distinctive names, you can find a fair bit of information about quite a few of them using the interweb that will bring up stories in local papers, etc.
> 
> Wasn't there something about someone winning a house. That would be all over the Interweb.
> 
> Edit: reading some more posts above -- Oh, yeah, and Facebook and stuff!



Right.  And the being able to get the right people whilst being blindfolded and throwing frisbees into (what for him would've been) darkness?


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> Right.  And the being able to get the right people whilst being blindfolded and throwing frisbees into (what for him would've been) darkness?



No idea! But, as several people have pointed out, the seat number, names, Internet thing must be one of many tools he uses...


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> That was mine too.  If you have someone's name and location and a facebook account you're in.  In an audience that size, for a man with his memory and cold reading skills, it's a piece of piss.
> 
> Not that I'm saying I could do it, of course.  The memory skills and cold reading are nigh on impossible to learn to a decent level but for a man at the top of the game like that....



Even when he is on tour doing shows night after night ? It would be mentally gruelling 

Surely he'd also need a team of researchers, with the possibility of leaks ?


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

Paul Russell said:


> Yes, that occurred to me during the show last night. I only saw a tiny bit. People have booked tickets so potentially he has access to their names, addresses and *seat numbers*. Assuming that a reasonable number of people have distinctive names, you can find a fair bit of information about quite a few of them using the interweb that will bring up stories in local papers, etc.
> 
> Wasn't there something about someone winning a house. That would be all over the Interweb.
> 
> Edit: reading some more posts above -- Oh, yeah, and Facebook and stuff!



agreed shit loads of info on t'internet

I went on a training course once and there was a woman there from Gloucester who hinted that she was known around that area (for something that had been in the papers) but didn't want to allaborate amungst strangers

so when I got home I looked it up

several press stories about her salsa dance teacher husband getting convicted of raping one of his pupils and she (the wife) was standing by her man blaming the ex dance studant for harassment


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> Surely he'd also need a team of researchers, with the possibility of leaks ?



If D Brown can manipulate a room full of paying public to do whatever the fuckk he wants
do you really think any of his researchers are gonna dob him in??


----------



## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

Yeah, but that theatre had about 5000 people in it.  He's gonna memorise that level of info for every single one of those people every night (142 I think it said) the show is on?


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> Yeah, but that theatre had about 5000 people in it.  He's gonna memorise that level of info for every single one of those people every night (142 I think it said) the show is on?



142? Not even the equivelent of memorising 3 packs of cards.

I bet thats no probelm for our Derren


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> I also think he is great for the way he goes out of his way to completely debunk mystics and psychics who are a pox on the world and long overdue a severe arsekicking and imprisonment for fraud.





kabbes said:


> Yeah, me too.  He is my hero for that, if nothing else.



I'd personally love to see him do an entire debunking of that twat from Most Haunted. That would be worth watching all on its own.


----------



## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> 142? Not even the equivelent of memorising 3 packs of cards.
> 
> I bet thats no probelm for our Derren



Mate, that's around 710,000 people!


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 14, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> Even when he is on tour doing shows night after night ? It would be mentally gruelling
> 
> Surely he'd also need a team of researchers, with the possibility of leaks ?



Dunno. The shows would have been sold out months in advance, so it's not like he would have to be on the Interweb during the tour. Just looking at the notes he'd made and memorising seat numbers for people he had info on. Still an amazing feat just getting to the auditorium and working out where seat numbers are located.

Disclaimer: I've got to say I only saw a bit of the show last night but I bet it's one tool he uses.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 14, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'd personally love to see him do an entire debunking of that twat from Most Haunted. That would be worth watching all on its own.


Some sort of Brown/Brooker collaboration where they _destroy_ those pricks would be awesome, yes.


----------



## moomoo (Jan 14, 2009)

Most people have their Facebook profiles set to private though so I don't see how that would help him.  Unless he added them as friends and that would be a bit obvious don't you think?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> If D Brown can manipulate a room full of paying public to do whatever the fuckk he wants
> do you really think any of his researchers are gonna dob him in??



 surely his techniques wouldn't work on 100% ?



Sadken said:


> Yeah, but that theatre had about 5000 people in it.  He's gonna memorise that level of info for every single one of those people every night (142 I think it said) the show is on?



http://www.derrenbrown.co.uk/tour

check the tour dates, it's relentless night after night with no breaks.  Surely he'd just become mentally and physically burnt out.  There's just not enough hours in the day to learn that amount of info imo.


----------



## fogbat (Jan 14, 2009)

elevendayempire said:


> Some sort of Brown/Brooker collaboration where they _destroy_ those pricks would be awesome, yes.



With hammers


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> Mate, that's around 710,000 people!



what? a night?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 14, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> If you watch him closely you'll see him constantly twitching to duck tiny Holy Bullets.


Him and Dawkins should form a superteam: Superskeptic and the Mentalist!


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> surely his techniques wouldn't work on 100% ?



he gets to choose who works for him tho innit!


----------



## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> he gets to choose who works for him tho innit!



he's magic!!!! Why can't you just accept that he's magic?!?!?!


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 14, 2009)

moomoo said:


> Most people have their Facebook profiles set to private though so I don't see how that would help him.  Unless he added them as friends and that would be a bit obvious don't you think?



Well, there's myspace, etc. You would "only" need, say, details of 40 people in the big audience every night to be a big tool in his armoury of tricks.

What are the alternatives. That he is psychic?


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> Yeah, but that theatre had about 5000 people in it.  He's gonna memorise that level of info for every single one of those people every night (142 I think it said) the show is on?



after re reading your post I understand it now!!



My bet is he has an earpiece in or summat, or he's reading nuances in peoples voices or....

fuck knows?

If i had the answers I wouldn't be posting on hear I'd be using my skills to be the leader of a cult getting money off people for doing nothing 
HAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## Sadken (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> after re reading your post I understand it now!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'd be up to my nuts in guts personally, but each to their own.  He showed he didn't have an earpiece.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> he's magic!!!! Why can't you just accept that he's magic?!?!?!



The only way to know for sure is to throw him off a cliff.

If he dies, I'll accept that it's all down to cheap memory tricks.


----------



## sam/phallocrat (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm reliably informed he uses slightly creepy psychic/stalker tricks when he's chasing his potential 'conquests' . . .


----------



## fogbat (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> I'd be up to my nuts in guts personally, but each to their own.  He showed he didn't have an earpiece.



He also showed that the box was being watched from the start, but we know that's not possible..

It's still possible he had an earpiece, but I like to imagine it's more elegantly done than that.


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> I'd be up to my nuts in guts personally, but each to their own.  He showed he didn't have an earpiece.



no he showed you that to make you THINK he didn't have an earpiece!

thats magik innit!


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 14, 2009)

sam/phallocrat said:


> I'm reliably informed he uses slightly creepy psychic/stalker tricks when he's chasing his potential 'conquests' . . .



Well I spose it's not as messy as rohypnol...


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

sam/phallocrat said:


> I'm *reliably* informed he uses slightly creepy psychic/stalker tricks when he's chasing his potential 'conquests' . . .



who by?


----------



## sam/phallocrat (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> who by?



Someone who used to go out with someone he's chased.  Good friend; not bullshit.

ps you know he's a gayer I presume . . .


----------



## newbie (Jan 14, 2009)

Paul Russell said:


> Dunno. The shows would have been sold out months in advance, so it's not like he would have to be on the Interweb during the tour. Just looking at the notes he'd made and memorising seat numbers for people he had info on. Still an amazing feat just getting to the auditorium and working out where seat numbers are located.
> 
> Disclaimer: I've got to say I only saw a bit of the show last night but I bet it's one tool he uses.


I don't get this.  He only has card info on a proportion of the audience, since most go with at least one friend he'll have somewhat less than 50%.  I don't know about you but on an evening out we will choose between us who sits in which seat, and swap around for long legs, the beehive in front and so on. 

And his frisbee throwing must be remarkably good to be 100% spot on that he gets the right person.


----------



## newbie (Jan 14, 2009)

how does the banknote number trick work?


----------



## Mitre10 (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> no he showed you that to make you THINK he didn't have an earpiece!
> 
> thats magik innit!




I know of one magician who has admitted to using some kind of wireless speaker inside his mouth against the jawbone - apparently sound transmits very well through bones into the ear.


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

sam/phallocrat said:


> ps you know he's a gayer I presume . . .



lol!

thats what i was gonna spring on you if you'd said a female


----------



## Mitre10 (Jan 14, 2009)

newbie said:


> how does the banknote number trick work?




Copied from another place:


""I went up on stage to phone my brother. The three numbers Derren predicted were ‘734′. The first three number my brother said were ‘369′ and the second numbers were ‘219′.

After he got these wrong Derren padded out the time by talking to him and trying to get himn to guess another 3 numbers - still wrong (these were not written on the board). 

He then went back to the paper board (remeber how close it was to the curtain). I believe at this point he was handed a £10 note which had just had my brother’s numbers printed on it by an ink jet printer. 

He then gave me the £10 note and thanked me, just as I was about to walk off stage he called me back to open the note which had the 6 numbers exactly and in the correct order. He then let me keep the £10 note.

I was amazed for a couple of days until I realised how it was done. I was fixed on the fact that the £10 was real which meant I must have somehow got my brother to say the 6 numbers….Wrong!

On closer inspection of another £10 note there are actually 2 serial numbers, one horizontal and one that runs vertically (go and check now!). On the note was written ‘I will make him say these numbers’ all in capitals. Coincidently the first ‘I’ covered up the horizontal 6 digit serial number. 

Also on closer inspection the original vertical serial number has been been removed as the paper is slightly thinner and some of the image has been removed (probably chemically). The numbers that have been re-printed are slightly larger than the true £10 and have also bleed a little (due to being printed on an inkjet printer). I did see a guy in the wings of the stage but I thought he was just there for the power point show etc."


----------



## sam/phallocrat (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> lol!
> 
> thats what i was gonna spring on you if you'd said a female



nah, twas definitely a bloke - bit heavy handed apparently (not literally though  )


----------



## newbie (Jan 14, 2009)

very elaborate, and more than a little illegal.  Nice though. 

I kinda wish I hadn't been tempted by this thread, I seldom watch telly and I've never seen him perform before, so I was well taken in.  my inner child is crying too, just a little bit.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 14, 2009)

newbie said:


> very elaborate, and more than a little illegal.  Nice though.
> 
> I kinda wish I hadn't been tempted by this thread, I seldom watch telly and I've never seen him perform before, so I was well taken in.  my inner child is crying too, just a little bit.



It's not illegal to write on money. Nobody who had any cause to check the serial number of a ten pound note would be fooled by a false one printed on the wrong side of the note.


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's not illegal to write on money.



I think it is

"If any person prints, or stamps, or by any means impresses, on any bank note any words, letters or figures, he shall, in respect of each offence, be liable on summary conviction to a penalty not exceeding one pound. The penalty was changed to £25 in 1977 (Criminal Law Act, s.31) and to £200 in 1982 (Criminal Justice Act, s.46)."


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

Sadken said:


> Where did he get the info from?  There was a disclaimer about no contact before the show and, additionally, a bit fortunate that the frisbees hit the people he had memorised ain't it?



No contact - that simply means he didn't contact them.  Does mean he hasn't done some digging.


And as for the frisbees... Think very carefully about what you saw, and in which parts of the act he threw them.  You remember him throwing frisbees whilst blindfolded.  Is that really what happened?


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

So, in a nutshell, he does it all by having - enough cash for some neat equipment; an astounding memory; an equally astounding cold reading ability' and a bloody good throwing arm.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> a bloody good throwing arm.



Not required at all


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

you sure?  Dunno about the blindfolded one, but on various things I've seen (okay, the Magicians film) practising getting the (whatever it is) to land in the right spot is also well used.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> you sure?  Dunno about the blindfolded one, but on various things I've seen (okay, the Magicians film) practising getting the (whatever it is) to land in the right spot is also well used.



I'd have to watch it again to be sure, but I'd put money on the fact that all the people selected by frisbee were involved in a part of the act where he could get any info he needed directly from them, or direct them to say the required answer.

The blindfold bit didn't use any frisbees IIRC - he started by saying the usual "I'm getting a person who is..." etc  He then got them to confirm their approximate position in the hall, which would confirm to him he had the right person for the facts he knew.


The trick with that bit is that you remember him throwing frisbees even when he didn't - he'd used them for so much of the show your brain assumes that must have been the method for everything.  It's why eyewitness accounts of events are so unreliable, our memories are remarkably easy to fool.

Classic example - ask someone to describe to you the shower scene in psycho, tell them to be as graphic about it as they can.  A huge number will tell you about seeing the knife going in, even though it's never shown on screen.


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The blindfold bit didn't use any frisbees IIRC - he started by saying the usual "I'm getting a person who is..." etc  He then got them to confirm their approximate position in the hall, which would confirm to him he had the right person for the facts he knew.



ooh yeah, you're right.


----------



## bluestreak (Jan 14, 2009)

See this thread only increases my enjoyment of the show.  It confirms stuff i knew and am already impressed by, teaches me new ideas and solution, and where we still don't ahve a fucking clue how he did it, confirms him as a better showman.

Mirrors, sleight of hand, misdirection, all wonderful stuff.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> I think it is
> 
> "If any person prints, or stamps, or by any means impresses, on any bank note any words, letters or figures, he shall, in respect of each offence, be liable on summary conviction to a penalty not exceeding one pound. The penalty was changed to £25 in 1977 (Criminal Law Act, s.31) and to £200 in 1982 (Criminal Justice Act, s.46)."



Ooh shite, I'd better stop writing seditious slogans on my fivers then


----------



## Paul Russell (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's why eyewitness accounts of events are so unreliable, our memories are remarkably easy to fool.



That's true, of course. Loads of research shows that our memories are basically rubbish, we tend to reconstruct memories after the event without realising, and are unreasonably confident about our powers of recall.  Loftus et al. et al. innit


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

So, how did he guess that bloke asked whether he should shave his balls or not?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> So, how did he guess that bloke asked whether he should shave his balls or not?



The bloke was _clearly_ a filthy perv, what else would he have asked?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> See this thread only increases my enjoyment of the show.  It confirms stuff i knew and am already impressed by, teaches me new ideas and solution, and where we still don't ahve a fucking clue how he did it, confirms him as a better showman.
> 
> Mirrors, sleight of hand, misdirection, all wonderful stuff.



Yep 

I've got really into this sort of stuff over the years, and have read as much as I can about all the techniques used, and every time I see one of his shows I get halfway through knowing how it was all done, then he shits on my knowledge from a great height and does something brilliant


----------



## Demosthenes (Jan 14, 2009)

The whole thing about him being a debunker is basically just for the credulous.  

Obviously what he does is magic, but he spends a lot of time making up convoluted and unbelievable rational explanations so as to keep people in their comfort zone and demonstrate just how credulous some people can be.


----------



## idioteque (Jan 14, 2009)

Mitre10 said:


> I thought the bit where he had the blindfold on was when he was shouting out names and ages: "Is there a 46 year old called Andy" etc.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of those people booked with credit cards giving access to their personal details and the ones whose names/ages were called out had social networking sites with plenty of available information about them...
> 
> Just one theory anyway.



I did consider that as well whilst watching it.



fogbat said:


> I think the card saying "cock" was a set up card - it wasn't matched to any particular person in the audience.



I saw this show in Southampton in 2007, and we had exactly the same 'cock' card, that was a set-up of some form...

Before he got properly famous and could be hired for parties and weddings etc, my dads cousin (I'm not sure what that makes her to me?) hired him for her wedding and there are loads of pictures of him with my relatives, and for some annoying reason, I didn't go


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

Demosthenes said:


> The whole thing about him being a debunker is basically just for the credulous.
> 
> Obviously what he does is magic, but he spends a lot of time making up convoluted and unbelievable rational explanations so as to keep people in their comfort zone and demonstrate just how credulous some people can be.



I kinda see what you're saying, but I would classify him as a debunker, in that he makes it very clear that he isn't claiming to be psychic and so on.


----------



## Jazzz (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep
> 
> I've got really into this sort of stuff over the years, and have read as much as I can about all the techniques used, and every time I see one of his shows I get halfway through knowing how it was all done, then he shits on my knowledge from a great height and does something brilliant



My uncle (who has produced Derren's shows) reports much the same. "All I know is that the explanation he gives as to how he did, well that's bullshit" he said.


----------



## fogbat (Jan 14, 2009)

Demosthenes said:


> The whole thing about him being a debunker is basically just for the credulous.
> 
> Obviously what he does is magic, but he spends a lot of time making up convoluted and unbelievable rational explanations so as to keep people in their comfort zone and demonstrate just how credulous some people can be.



Yes dear.

It's time for your - I SAID IT'S TIME FOR YOUR DINNER, LOVE.


----------



## Jazzz (Jan 14, 2009)

mind you, David Shayler caught him out when he was invited to be a victim on one of his shows. Derren gave him a pad to write down some picture or something which would later be mind-read, or some such impressiveness. "Oh, are you going to ESDA it?". The trick was abandoned


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

idioteque said:


> my dads cousin (I'm not sure what that makes her to me?)



Second cousin.  Any kids would be your second cousin once removed.


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> mind you, David Shayler caught him out when he was invited to be a victim on one of his shows. Derren gave him a pad to write down some picture or something which would later be mind-read, or some such impressiveness. "Oh, are you going to ESDA it?". The trick was abandoned



I was wondering what would happen if someone pulled out their own pen.


----------



## 8den (Jan 14, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> mind you, David Shayler caught him out when he was invited to be a victim on one of his shows. Derren gave him a pad to write down some picture or something which would later be mind-read, or some such impressiveness. "Oh, are you going to ESDA it?". The trick was abandoned



Darren Brown is no match for Jesus fucking Christ himself.


----------



## christonabike (Jan 14, 2009)

Esda?


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

christonabike said:


> Esda?



Electrostatic Detection Apparatus.  Basically a high tech way of dong pencil rubbings of the sheet under that which was written on to read tyhe imprint left behind.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

Jazzz said:


> mind you, David Shayler caught him out when he was invited to be a victim on one of his shows. Derren gave him a pad to write down some picture or something which would later be mind-read, or some such impressiveness. "Oh, are you going to ESDA it?". The trick was abandoned



He does another version of that trick though where no ESDA is required, where he gives very large hints/suggestions* as to what he wants them to draw.



*Well, large if you know what to look/listen for


----------



## Voley (Jan 14, 2009)

The debunking thing is a double bluff.

Really he's genuinely got magic powers but he's getting you to think that he hasn't. 

It's God's way of testing us and it proves that God exists.


----------



## newbie (Jan 14, 2009)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ooh shite, I'd better stop writing seditious slogans on my fivers then



whoah, slowdown.

this is a messageboard, you shouldn't take anything written here seriously enough to affect your reallife behaviour.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> Second cousin.  Any kids would be your second cousin once removed.


I thought your Dad's cousin was your first cousin once removed?  Your great-aunty's grandkids would be your second cousins.


----------



## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> I thought your Dad's cousin was your first cousin once removed?  Your great-aunty's grandkids would be your second cousins.



this link explains who's right


----------



## ska invita (Jan 14, 2009)

Another quick one

*500 or 5000*

Most of this trick is just patter and showmanship - which is enjoyable, and is designed to get the most out of the trick.

Ultimately it is simple: the box is a trick box which can show either 500 or 5000 pounds. Just before he took off the cover his hand linger on the top of the box and looked like it was pressing a button. This makes any necessary switch. Never trust a box in a magic show!

Then he goes to the flipchart and reveals - "Why do men always choose £5000". Its pretty likely that on another page it said "Why do people always change their minds" or whatever.

There probably is an element of steering going on on the chatty bits.


----------



## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> this link explains who's right



uhh, i _think_ that says I'm right.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 14, 2009)

*The Dad Phonecall*

Here he gets someone to call their dad and guess 3 digit numbers. AS it is impossible to predict what three numbers will be chosen the trick goes "wrong", and Derren fails to guess the numbers.

The serial number on the £10 note that has the correct 9 digit number would have to be made with a fairly simple stamp in the wings. AS the numbers are written up, so they would be added to the note. Then its just a simple task of getting the newly stamped note to Derren.

All through the trick he keeps walking over to the flipchart, fiddling about with the microphone, and generaly acting eratic. This is to distract the audience from the fake note being set up near/on the flipchart. 

Derren walks over to the flip chart once after all the numbers are up on the board and pockets it.As its folded up so small it is easy to palm and conceal.


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## kabbes (Jan 14, 2009)

internetstalker said:


> this link explains who's right





belboid said:


> uhh, i _think_ that says I'm right.


Hahahaha no it doesn't -- it says I'm right.  Your dad's cousin is the green box that is two to the right of the father/mother bit.  And that green box says "first cousin once removed".

I love the fact that the tree seemed to create as much confusion as the original question!


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## belboid (Jan 14, 2009)

oh aye, so it does


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## internetstalker (Jan 14, 2009)

kabbes said:


> I love the fact that the tree seemed to create as much confusion as the original question!



innit

basically your great aunts kid is your first cousin once removed and your cousins kid is also first cousin once removed!

I now see why no one ever seems to knkow which is which!


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## Idaho (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd be interested to know just how many books/passages of books he did have to memorise for it to work.  He is very good at forcing peoples choices, but I assume he has some flexibility built into the routine...



This is a variation of a standard card trick where you get someone to pick from a deck with all the same card in it.


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## Santino (Jan 14, 2009)

As I said on the other thread, a huuuge part of his act is feeding us fake explanations for how he's really doing it, sometimes explicitly, and sometimes allowing us to think we're being clever and 'working it out' ourselves.


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## spanglechick (Jan 14, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> Remember that Derren has a fantastic memory (his library trick comes to mind).  And then remember that 90% of that audience booked tickets with a credit card.  And that it isn't difficult to get information about people once you have their name, address, credit card details and whatnot.
> 
> So he's memorised a certain proportion of the audience and a few relevant details about them, which he can then use.  And that's the easy part, FFS!  How he does the other stuff is even more incredible, cold reading, the fact that each audience gives similar responses, body language, giving hints, etc.
> 
> Also remember that smoke and mirrors are a good part, distraction, changing things around.  I understand the principles behind it but it's done so well that no matter how hard you look, you're still impressed.  The man is a fecking genius innit.



deff.  

i was sitting in the audience being all impressed - and then i realised he was getting it off facebook and memorising it.  the evening lost some shine...


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## fogbat (Jan 14, 2009)

Alex B said:


> As I said on the other thread, a huuuge part of his act is feeding us fake explanations for how he's really doing it, sometimes explicitly, and sometimes allowing us to think we're being clever and 'working it out' ourselves.



As Bees pointed out earlier, we'll think we know how something's done, then he does something else that contradicts that


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## quimcunx (Jan 14, 2009)

NVP said:


> The debunking thing is a double bluff.
> 
> Really he's genuinely got magic powers but he's getting you to think that he hasn't.




You are my flatmate's sister and I claim my £5.


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## cliche guevara (Jan 14, 2009)

Alex B said:


> As I said on the other thread, a huuuge part of his act is feeding us fake explanations for how he's really doing it, sometimes explicitly, and sometimes allowing us to think we're being clever and 'working it out' ourselves.



Very much so. i remember on one of his earlier TV shows, he got someone in the stret to call up a friend, and got them to guess a word he had written down. The word was tricycle, and all throughout the conversation he was asking them to _try_ to envisage the word, imagine the _wheels_ in your head clicking into place, etc. Fantastic bit of misguidance, that will let a lot of people think that they're in on the trick.


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## ska invita (Jan 14, 2009)

*20 Questions *

The giveway with 20 Questions was that the 6 people had to write down the answers on a bit of paper at the back of the stage. One way or another (either using cameras or something under the table on which the notes where written) the information that was written down was noted imediately by helpers off-stage.

THey then quickly write on a big sign 1. UFO 2. WHIP etc.

The 6 memebers of the public are brought to the front of the stage. Derren then makes an excuse to go to the table at the back - at that point he looks off stage to see the sign saying who wrote what. He quickly remembers this and can then fuck about pretending to ask questions, already knowing full well who got what.


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## ska invita (Jan 14, 2009)

cliche guevara said:


> Very much so. i remember on one of his earlier TV shows, he got someone in the stret to call up a friend, and got them to guess a word he had written down. The word was tricycle, and all throughout the conversation he was asking them to _try_ to envisage the word, imagine the _wheels_ in your head clicking into place, etc. Fantastic bit of misguidance, that will let a lot of people think that they're in on the trick.



David Blaine's "streetmagic" was actually very much tv magic, and one such similiar trick involves hoping that people will choose a commonly chosen number and doing the trick as many times as necessary and only keeping the take that worked!

All the David BLaine secrets are long revealed:
http://www.freeinfosociety.com/pdfs/misc/david_blaines_magic_revealed.pdf
...lots more on the net


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

ska invita said:


> *20 Questions *
> 
> The giveway with 20 Questions was that the 6 people had to write down the answers on a bit of paper at the back of the stage. One way or another (either using cameras or something under the table on which the notes where written) the information that was written down was noted imediately by helpers off-stage.
> 
> ...



I know how that trick was done, and this isn't it


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I know how that trick was done, and this isn't it



Spill it then


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

SpookyFrank said:


> Spill it then



Nope


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## Paul Russell (Jan 14, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I know how that trick was done, and this isn't it



BTW, if you've read about all his stuff (I actually have Tricks of the Mind or whatever it's called but haven't read it), can you actually use any of his techniques in any tiny way? And have you? Obviously not the big showbiz stuff but the supposed suggestion techniques to get the answer you want, etc, etc...


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 14, 2009)

Paul Russell said:


> BTW, if you've read about all his stuff (I actually have Tricks of the Mind or whatever it's called but haven't read it), can you actually use any of his techniques in any tiny way? And have you? Obviously not the big showbiz stuff but the supposed suggestion techniques, etc...



I used to be pretty good at cold reading (well, I assume I still am, I haven't tried for a while) but I haven't got the time or patience to do what's required to get even remotely good at the suggestion stuff.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 14, 2009)

So the spoilers we have so far are....

...the flying table is a 'common magic trick'

....women are always thinking of dyeing their hair anyway

...TicketMaster are supplying personal credit card details to him 

...it wasn't his hand holding the board when he was at the the end of the stage in a gorilla suit

...he has a money creating printer at the side of the stage that can do you a nice tenner with a serial number of your choice

...and someone would like to sell us a box like Derren has.


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## cliche guevara (Jan 14, 2009)

Paul Russell said:


> BTW, if you've read about all his stuff (I actually have Tricks of the Mind or whatever it's called but haven't read it), can you actually use any of his techniques in any tiny way? And have you? Obviously not the big showbiz stuff but the supposed suggestion techniques to get the answer you want, etc, etc...



A large section of the book deals with the kind of memory tricks and body language reading that anyone who's experienced corporate training in the last decade or so will find familiar. I have no doubts that this sort of thing works, but it's kind of cringey. The book did have some redeeming factors, like plenty of funny and interesting anecdotes and a good section on pseudoscience (think Goldacre dumbed down), but overall I found it a bit of a disappointment.


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## la ressistance (Jan 17, 2009)

elevendayempire said:


> Some sort of Brown/Brooker collaboration where they _destroy_ those pricks would be awesome, yes.



http://www.badpsychics.co.uk/:D


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## Steve123 (Jan 20, 2009)

DexterTCN said:


> So the spoilers we have so far are....
> 
> ...the flying table is a 'common magic trick'
> 
> ...



Hi people
A few words about the oracle act. 
The cards that are filled out by audience members in the intermission are not all the same. They ask for name, date of birth, something interesting about yourself and your question. Some also ask for details of an object in your pocket.
Only one person allowed on stage at a time to put their envelope into the bowl.
A dodgy looking person spotted by different people at live shows (often wearing baseball cap and glasses) goes on stage to "put his card in". Has his back to the audience. He doesn't go back to his seat but walks out of the theatre.
The intermission is at least 20 mins long.
The only time a question is answered is when it is a "should i do this or not" type of question. The other amazing bits he says are from the write some interesting fact about yourself bit on the card, i.e. I dyed my hair this morning etc


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## Teepee (Jan 21, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> He does another version of that trick though where no ESDA is required, where he gives very large hints/suggestions* as to what he wants them to draw.
> 
> 
> 
> *Well, large if you know what to look/listen for



I need you to draw a picture for me now, the first image that floats into your mind... don't let me influence you, just the first one that sails into your mind.. see it clearly in water colour...


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## JohnnyOrange (Jan 21, 2009)

Steve123 said:


> Hi people
> A few words about the oracle act.
> The cards that are filled out by audience members in the intermission are not all the same. They ask for name, date of birth, something interesting about yourself and your question. Some also ask for details of an object in your pocket.
> Only one person allowed on stage at a time to put their envelope into the bowl.
> ...



I like this.  It makes a lot of sense because it's so simple.  

One of the first things in 'Tricks Of The Mind' is that really basic card trick you learn as a kid and how to subvert it and make it look like you're making it more complicated when you're not.  Like when he had the bandages over his eyes - it looks clever but really it means that he never needs to see anything anyway.  By appearing to read your mind he almost puts the emphasis on you, when of course it's nothing to do with you.

He's a clever bloke, and an amazing performer.


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## dtb (Jan 21, 2009)

i went to see his show in epsom and when he did the trick phoning up a girls dad he answered and said 'is that derren' before he'd said anything. now the dad probably knew that the girl was going to see his show but it all seemed a little suss to me.


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## internetstalker (Jan 21, 2009)

Steve123 said:


> Hi people
> A few words about the oracle act.
> The cards that are filled out by audience members in the intermission are not all the same. They ask for name, date of birth, something interesting about yourself and your question. Some also ask for details of an object in your pocket.
> Only one person allowed on stage at a time to put their envelope into the bowl.
> ...


so

the dodgy bloke takes some of the cards out (and replaces them with blanks)
then derren gets to read em back stage and swaps em just before reading them out (when he had a handful of cards)

sounds simple enough!

genius!


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## belboid (Jan 21, 2009)

Steve123 said:


> Hi people
> A few words about the oracle act.
> The cards that are filled out by audience members in the intermission are not all the same. They ask for name, date of birth, something interesting about yourself and your question. Some also ask for details of an object in your pocket.
> Only one person allowed on stage at a time to put their envelope into the bowl.
> ...



utter bullshit. That's about as believable as an episode of Hustle.  Most obviously, why on earth would anyone be impressed when he came out with an 'amazing' fact, when they'd just written it down themselves?  It would be blatantly obvious where the info came from, and would look rubbish.

you, 'Steve' must be a Derren employee trying to mislead everyone for getting the vast majority of the act right.


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## Steve123 (Jan 21, 2009)

So he is obviously reading their minds or their micro signals or maybe he hypnotised them or used some other subliminal effect to get them to say whatever he wants!
Give me a break.
I would be impressed if he deduced what i had written on the card just by the way i had put my initials and row number.
If i did work for Derren i think he would have fired me by now.
Ever hear of Dual Reality?
The audience member and the audience are having slightly different experiences of the same event.
It is no great secret that mentalism acts are a trick. The part that makes Derren brilliant is the way he has made people believe that it isn't.


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## belboid (Jan 21, 2009)

it isn't a binary choice between what you said and 'mentalism', there are simply better explanations. 

If it really is that simple, then the audience members chosen must be amongst the most gullible people on the planet


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2009)

He only televises the shows where the tricks work - it's all statistics.


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## Steve123 (Jan 21, 2009)

belboid said:


> it isn't a binary choice between what you said and 'mentalism', there are simply better explanations.
> 
> If it really is that simple, then the audience members chosen must be amongst the most gullible people on the planet



I am sure there are other methods but I am pretty sure that he uses the one I discribed.  if you fancy a good read on his stage show check out this blog at wongablog.co.uk/2007/05/02/derren-brown-mind-reader-the-evening-of-wonders which has been going for 18 months or so and has over 500 posts! Quite an eye opener


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## bellator (Jan 21, 2009)

I loved his interview with Richard Dawkins on all of the fakery of mediumship. 

Would love to know what he thinks more on that subject and others, healers etc.


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## cliche guevara (Jan 21, 2009)

8ball said:


> He only televises the shows where the tricks work - it's all statistics.



While this is obviously true to a certain extent, I don't believe that his ability is down to statistics. When he did the coin toss and got ten heads in a row it was though, and that upset me loads. Took him about seven hours if I remember correctly.


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## DexterTCN (Jan 21, 2009)

8ball said:


> He only televises the shows where the tricks work - it's all statistics.



He actually filmed 89 million of them but only showed this one.


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## 8ball (Jan 21, 2009)

DexterTCN said:


> He actually filmed 89 million of them but only showed this one.



Yes - in all the other attempts he had the audience killed!


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## ska invita (Feb 3, 2009)

8ball said:


> Yes - in all the other attempts he had the audience killed!



THere are some tricks that work on this principle - theres ones were you say pick a number between 1-100, and people tend to pick one of ten numbers (cant remember which ones they were, something like 7, 23, 66, etc.) 

Then the magician has 10 different bits of paper with those numbers written down hidden in different pockets etc, and just needs to pull out the relevant one.

This is the core of the trick, but the presentation takes different forms. It only works on TV when you can show the times it works... definitely David Blaine has a couple of numbers like this


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## Thompi (Jul 21, 2009)

*Nodding-tick.*



kabbes said:


> I have a Derren Question.  All those little head shakes and nods he does -- are they just tics or are they a crucial part of his techniques?



He references both his nodding-tick and his blinking-tick in his book Tricks of the Mind. 
The nodding is something he started doing to make people agree with what he said, and eventually he wasn't able to control it anymore.

I don't remember exactly what he wrote about the blinking, except that it started developing while he was doing some swollen-eye-stunt in school.


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## Thompi (Jul 21, 2009)

*Tricks of the Mind -> a new The Heist?*



cliche guevara said:


> A large section of the book deals with the kind of memory tricks and body language reading that anyone who's experienced corporate training in the last decade or so will find familiar. I have no doubts that this sort of thing works, but it's kind of cringey. The book did have some redeeming factors, like plenty of funny and interesting anecdotes and a good section on pseudoscience (think Goldacre dumbed down), but overall I found it a bit of a disappointment.



I agree with you to some extent. The 2nd half the book was almost solely about pseudoscience and frauds etc. 
the only really useful stuff was the mnemonic techniques, body reading tips, and the hypnosis(was a theoretical guide based in anecdotes).
Much of which was used as decoy in "_The Heist_"
It wouldn't surprise me if the whole book is some sort of scheme yet to be revealed.
Anyone's exhibited any strange behaviours after reading it? lol

Although it's still a great book and very interesting, just like, f e. "The God Delusion" or "Selfish Gene" by Richard Dawkins etc. in short; it's a factbook.

Can't wait for "Memoirs of a Mentalist", though!


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## Pippa201 (Jun 30, 2014)

kabbes said:


> I have a Derren Question.  All those little head shakes and nods he does -- are they just tics or are they a crucial part of his techniques?


I have noticed this too.  I have a hunch that he's in radio contact, and is acknowledging receipt of bits of information.  It's only apparent during normal "conversation".  I also believe that he has crew members circulating in the bar or lounge prior to his show, to engage visitors in conversation and extract names, personal details etc. that he can use as and when.  I'm seeing his show tomorrow (July 1st 2014), so I'll report back.............


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## 8ball (Jun 30, 2014)

Pippa201 said:


> I have noticed this too.  I have a hunch that he's in radio contact, and is acknowledging receipt of bits of information.  It's only apparent during normal "conversation".


 
According to him it's a tic that developed from small nods he gave to people to signal them to indicate agreement/understanding in his act (since if in agreement people will mirror this to some extent), which became much more general.  Someone I know who met him after the show said his tics seemed more pronounced when offstage.


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