# Years and Years : Russell T Davies



## A380 (May 14, 2019)

Fuck me, that was proper telly.


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## D'wards (May 14, 2019)

Yeah I enjoyed that. And it wouldn't be a Russell T Davis production without some semi graphic gay sex - even if it is about ww3


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## Mrs Miggins (May 14, 2019)

Fuck yeah! 
Great cast.


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## Santino (May 14, 2019)

The Doctor will sort this shit out.


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## D'wards (May 14, 2019)

Years and Years review – a glorious near-future drama from Russell T Davies


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## 8115 (May 14, 2019)

Quite enjoyed that. I'm not sure about it yet.


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## D'wards (May 14, 2019)

It's set over 12 years, until 2036. 

I hadn't read anything about it and still wasn't sure what it was about until the air raid siren went off.
I like Russell Tovey but his accent came and went a bit


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## marty21 (May 14, 2019)

Will be watching it , a Housing Officer as a hero ? #aboutfuckingtime 

He is a hero yes ?


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## yield (May 15, 2019)

It's got potential & has some genuinely funny moments. Keith



Santino said:


> The Doctor will sort this shit out.


Doesn't she look tired!


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## D'wards (May 15, 2019)

yield said:


> It's got potential & has some genuinely funny moments. Keith


I resented the mockery over Keith. Surely in the future sex dolls are the way forward


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## Shirl (May 16, 2019)

I read the above posts this morning and although I didn't think it was my kind of tv I decided to watch it.

I had to turn it off before the end, I stuck with it until the sirens went off. I hated it and wish I hadn't seen it now


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## mwgdrwg (May 17, 2019)

Watched it last night and thought it was great. 

((Keith))


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## Santino (May 17, 2019)

A380, well done on spelling 'T' correctly in the thread title.


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## A380 (May 17, 2019)

Santino said:


> A380, well done on spelling 'T' correctly in the thread title.


I was tempted to put tee...


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## Plumdaff (May 17, 2019)

I thought that was a great bit of telly...


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## 8ball (May 17, 2019)

I take it this is on iPlayer?


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## chilango (May 18, 2019)

Watched it again. It is a very loud scream of liberal anguish at the way things are going. Great telly though.


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## marty21 (May 18, 2019)

Enjoyed it


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## not-bono-ever (May 21, 2019)

quite like this - its a distillation of everything that is going wrong with the world in a slow motion car crash drama


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## not-bono-ever (May 22, 2019)

I know it will provoke ire but have always liked Emma Thompson - her character in this is disturbing


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## Chz (May 22, 2019)

not-bono-ever said:


> I know it will provoke ire but have always liked Emma Thompson - her character in this is disturbing


She really is a fantastic actor. Able to do warm and comforting just as well as reptilian and repulsive. I reckon a politician who could act that well would be pretty successful.


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## Jeremiah18.17 (May 22, 2019)

Like the way the Thompson character’s politics are shown as being all-things to-all-people populism which has already enticed some of the characters - authoritarian populist demagogues (if that is what she is to become in subsequent episodes) these days are more careful as they build their route to power - witness Farage and his constant trimming to keep the all out RW whack jobs in his orbit at arms length, and his “man of the people” schtick. The way she was shown to win over a “mixed” audience was chilling.  
Series is good so far, and as many are saying online, when it finishes the news afterwards almost seems like a seemless continuation of the dystopia.


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## planetgeli (May 22, 2019)

It’s a bit painting by numbers but very watchable. I like the dark humour, this week’s bit being the drone decapitation moment.


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## chilango (May 22, 2019)

I enjoyed this week's too. Obviously having a nuclear war break out us a hard cliffhanger to follow, but the bank stuff was good for a bit of tension ratcheting.


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## sovereignb (May 22, 2019)

Missed last weeks episode but loved yesterdays...very Black Mirror. Hoping I catch it from the beginning somewhere


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## 8ball (May 22, 2019)

Have started watching, playing “spot the Urbanite”...


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## 8ball (May 22, 2019)

chilango said:


> It is a very loud scream of liberal anguish at the way things are going.



This hits the nail on the head for me, although only a little way in.


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## kittyP (May 22, 2019)

Just finished the first episode. 
FUCK ME that was powerful!!


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## 8ball (May 22, 2019)

kittyP said:


> Just finished the first episode.
> FUCK ME that was powerful!!



I’m a bit slow at the old telly watching, so no spoilers!!


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## kittyP (May 22, 2019)

I have always found Russell Tovey deeply attractive


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## 8ball (May 22, 2019)

kittyP said:


> I have always found Russell Tovey deeply attractive



He’s a dead ringer for a mate of mine. 

I can sympathise with the trans teen.  Stupid, messy, needy things, bodies are.


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## 8ball (May 22, 2019)

Spoiler



Is it really plausible that Trump *really* has the nuclear codes, though?


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## not-bono-ever (May 23, 2019)

My boy had just informed me that the Ukrainian love interest in the series is the boy that mr bean befriends in the arguably wonderful mr beans holiday road movie


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## kalidarkone (May 23, 2019)

Watching now-bloody excellent!  My only criticism is that Russel Tovey's Manchester accent is rubbish and he keeps lapsing into Cockney.


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## cupid_stunt (May 26, 2019)

I have to say I am rather enjoying this.


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## 8ball (May 26, 2019)

kalidarkone said:


> Watching now-bloody excellent!  My only criticism is that Russel Tovey's Manchester accent is rubbish and he keeps lapsing into Cockney.



It was meant to be a Manchester accent?!


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## kalidarkone (May 26, 2019)

8ball said:


> It was meant to be a Manchester accent?!


Yes! That's where the family are from, but elder brother lives in London.


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## 8ball (May 26, 2019)

kalidarkone said:


> Yes! That's where the family are from, but elder brother lives in London.



I have a different accent to the rest of my family tbf.  I couldn’t really place what Tovey was up to.


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## not-bono-ever (May 28, 2019)

getting a bit stressed over this


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## Santino (May 28, 2019)

Why did Tovey's character vote Tory?


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## greenfield (May 28, 2019)

Santino said:


> Why did Tovey's character vote Tory?



I actually shouted at the screen at that point


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## not-bono-ever (May 28, 2019)

I dunno really- maybe it was just a vehicle to show how people of the same family have different drivers and perceptions.


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## not-bono-ever (May 28, 2019)

Emma T is a fantastic malevolent media continuity thread throughout the programme - not sure if she will have to appear in the same scenes as the players again anymore.


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## 8ball (May 28, 2019)

I thought this was on Fridays for some reason.  Got the box recording it...


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## mwgdrwg (May 29, 2019)

Emma Thompson's delivery of this line was just brilliant!



Spoiler



Let the people decide!

...but only the clever ones.


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## planetgeli (May 29, 2019)

Santino said:


> Why did Tovey's character vote Tory?



This has irked my gf too.

I reckon they’re just showing up a character who says one thing but does another. Ultimately he believes his self-interest is delivered by the party of self-interest.

It can’t be tactical voting because he was shown as being in a Labour seat before wasn’t he?


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## sojourner (May 29, 2019)

Yeh, I didn't really get that vote either, given his repeated emphasis on the opposite.


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## 8ball (May 30, 2019)

OMG - that stuff from Beth about sucking on the thickness of the air resonates so much.

Anyone else?


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## 8ball (May 30, 2019)

sojourner said:


> Yeh, I didn't really get that vote either, given his repeated emphasis on the opposite.



Tactical vote to stop 4star?


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## D'wards (May 30, 2019)

I do like it, but after the first episode I was hoping it would be more, kind of Threads.


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## belboid (May 30, 2019)

I discovered last night that a friend of mine is the back of Emma Thompson's head!  They have sufficiently similar hair to get away with it, apparently.

She also told me about her final shot, which was a tad annoying


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## planetgeli (May 30, 2019)

belboid said:


> I discovered last night that a friend of mine is the back of Emma Thompson's head!  They have sufficiently similar hair to get away with it, apparently.
> 
> She also told me about her final shot, which was a tad annoying



Why would they need to use a ‘back of head body double’? Or am I misreading you? Are you also saying your friend gave something away about the plot?

My sister-in-law is the archive researcher (she’s named on the credits). She read the whole script over a year ago and had to sign a media official secrets type thing threatening her with death or something if she gave anything away to anyone. Needless to say, she hasn’t.


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## chilango (May 30, 2019)

Santino said:


> Why did Tovey's character vote Tory?



Caused a sharp intake of breath in our house that did.

...but he's maybe the most financially "secure" in the family now that his brother fucked up. Perhaps that's bubbling away.


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## belboid (May 30, 2019)

planetgeli said:


> Why would they need to use a ‘back of head body double’? Or am I misreading you? Are you also saying your friend gave something away about the plot?
> 
> My sister-in-law is the archive researcher (she’s named on the credits). She read the whole script over a year ago and had to sign a media official secrets type thing threatening her with death or something if she gave anything away to anyone. Needless to say, she hasn’t.


She insists what she said gave nothing away!  She was an extra as well, so _could _have been referring to someone else. 

Back of head body doubles are quite common, most often with two-header conversations. No point having the star sit/stand there if they're just doing an over the shoulder shot.


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## planetgeli (May 30, 2019)

Cool.

Being the archive researcher btw means finding things like the porn clip used at the hustings by Viv/Emma to get the crowd outraged. Except it wasn't a porn clip as the BBC isn't allowed to show porn so she had to find a porn clip that wasn't actual porn.


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 4, 2019)

Nice bit of horseshoe theory on this just now


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Nice bit of horseshoe theory on this just now



Yeah. Put a bit of a downer on things.


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 4, 2019)

Crying here.

Don't think I've done that for a television programme for a decade. 

That whole episode was devastating.


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2019)

No "next episode" preview? Hmmm


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## greenfield (Jun 4, 2019)

Christ, I'm in floods of tears! Really affecting


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## spanglechick (Jun 4, 2019)

Yup.  That last bit was gut-wrenching.


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## 8ball (Jun 4, 2019)

Whoa.


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## kalidarkone (Jun 5, 2019)

I felt devastated for the family and Victor..... but not for the character. Really didn't connect there.


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 5, 2019)

kalidarkone said:


> I felt devastated for the family and Victor..... but not for the character. Really didn't connect there.



He did vote Tory after all!


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## chilango (Jun 5, 2019)

Jessica Hynes was superb last night. The fishmongery scene in particular.


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 5, 2019)

chilango said:


> Jessica Hynes was superb last night. The fishmongery scene in particular.



Yep, brilliant.

Also, anyone else get an involuntary crick in the neck watching last night's episode?


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## sojourner (Jun 5, 2019)

Well THAT was a bold decision, eh? Wow.


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## cupid_stunt (Jun 5, 2019)

That was very hard hitting, great stuff.


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## planetgeli (Jun 5, 2019)

Heavy.


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## Doctor Carrot (Jun 5, 2019)

That seemed strange, silly and like it was forced in to me. I'd much rather have seen them try it on with weird passports and breath tests and then either not getting through or having to deal with a far right populist government on immigration. That strikes me as more likely than 'must get migrant crisis angle in'


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## chilango (Jun 5, 2019)

Watched it again. 

There's a thing with keys this episode. There's keys in loads of scenes. Any idea why?


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## 8ball (Jun 6, 2019)

chilango said:


> Watched it again.
> 
> There's a thing with keys this episode. There's keys in loads of scenes. Any idea why?



Keys and mobile phones.

I think Davies is saying “I really miss sonic screwdrivers - they made this writing lark way easier”.


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## kabbes (Jun 6, 2019)

We couldn’t make it past the first 15 minutes.  The acting/direction was just way too awful


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## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 6, 2019)

I must be in a crappy mood because I found the first episode really painful. Please tell me it improves? Here goes.....


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## greenfield (Jun 6, 2019)

It definitely improves. You can tell it's by Russell T Davies though. I don't mean by the gay stuff but by the quality and style of writing

ETA: that probably makes me sound stuck up that but I do think his stuff has a certain style, if youknow what I mean, for good and bad.


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## 8ball (Jun 6, 2019)

greenfield said:


> It definitely improves. You can tell it's by Russell T Davies though. I don't mean by the gay stuff but by the quality and style of writing
> 
> ETA: that probably makes me sound like a stuck up that but I do think his stuff has a certain style, if youknow what I mean, for good and bad.



I think you’re right, if I’d watched it without knowing he’d have been in my first 3 guesses as the writer.

I think the weakness is that the story feels built around the moral points it wants to make.  A lot of stuff does that, but it shouldn’t *feel* like that iyswim.


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## kittyP (Jun 6, 2019)

Have just watched the latest episode and I'm a fucking mess 
I think my neighbours might be concerned I was sobbing so loudly


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## fucthest8 (Jun 7, 2019)

8ball said:


> I think the weakness is that the story feels built around the moral points it wants to make.  A lot of stuff does that, but it shouldn’t *feel* like that iyswim.



I'd agree. The dialogue is top quality, most of the characters are great (I felt the same as kalidarkone ), their relationships too seem pretty solid and I am, overall, enjoying it and the near-future extrapolation ... but it misses the mark a bit because of that feeling you describe.


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## belboid (Jun 7, 2019)

I am quite enjoying this still, but, bloody hell, it's liberalism is probably a bit much even for a sandal wearing lentil eating guardian reader. Pretty much every cliche gets out there - Hynes wrapping them all up into one character. I couldn't even be that moved by Tovey's death as it was so clearly coming. I realise it's a drama and the politics have to be kid of simplistic, but they really are, and with such a narrow range of voices discussing them. Next week looks to be when all the thicko's have voted for Rook, because, well, show them a bit of porn ,and they wouldn't, wouldn't they?


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## D'wards (Jun 9, 2019)

I really like the Danny and Victor storyline, not too enthused with the rest


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## chilango (Jun 11, 2019)

Well that's ramped it up a gear or ten.


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## Santino (Jun 11, 2019)

It's all going to get a bit Torchwood.


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## chilango (Jun 12, 2019)

I'll just leave this here....


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 12, 2019)

Never have I screamed "What a cunt!" at a man moving files on a PC before.


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## Doctor Carrot (Jun 12, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> Never have I screamed "What a cunt!" at a man moving files on a PC before.



I like how the utter cuntyness of that character has developed as the series has gone on.


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## Winot (Jun 12, 2019)

The acting is excellent and the relationships believable but it is getting a bit too much into fantasy technology territory for my liking. Hard to suspend disbelief when key characters basically have superpowers.


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## Jeremiah18.17 (Jun 12, 2019)

Winot said:


> The acting is excellent and the relationships believable but it is getting a bit too much into fantasy technology territory for my liking. Hard to suspend disbelief when key characters basically have superpowers.



I think it is a bit of artistic licence for the plot, but note that the “Transhumanist” character is given these powers by the state, acting with a corporation. Underlying it is the message that the state and corporations, rather than individuals- “upgraded” or not- *already* have close to these surveillance and data accumulation capacities- will be interesting if this is shown in final episode. The Jessica Hynes character in particular would surely be someone who was being bugged/monitored even at the beginning of the series, let alone under the authoritarian state of 2028/9?

What bugs me about a lot of “ near future” fiction is that the surveillance capacities of state and private power is not shown even as it is now, let alone in the near future. Have they not watched “Hunted”?

 We are not only on the edge of the environmental abyss, but on the edge of nightmare 24/7 360 degree surveillance, control and manipulation (see the well trailed stuff about social credits and penalties and facial recognition tech in China for example) The current panics over electoral manipulation and fake news are just the tip of a massive iceberg. Our window for liberation and/or survival is already very small and getting smaller year on year.


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## chilango (Jun 12, 2019)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> I think it is a bit of artistic licence for the plot, but note that the “Transhumanist” character is given these powers by the state, acting with a corporation. Underlying it is the message that the state and corporations, rather than individuals- “upgraded” or not- *already* have close to these surveillance and data accumulation capacities- will be interesting if this is shown in final episode. The Jessica Hynes character in particular would surely be someone who was being bugged/monitored even at the beginning of the series, let alone under the authoritarian state of 2028/9?
> 
> What bugs me about a lot of “ near future” fiction is that the surveillance capacities of state and private power is not shown even as it is now, let alone in the near future. Have they not watched “Hunted”?
> 
> We are not only on the edge of the environmental abyss, but on the edge of nightmare 24/7 360 degree surveillance, control and manipulation (see the well trailed stuff about social credits and penalties and facial recognition tech in China for example) The current panics over electoral manipulation and fake news are just the tip of a massive iceberg. Our window for liberation and/or survival is already very small and getting smaller year on year.



...and yet the blackouts, the over reliance upon dwindling energy resources, are explicitly shown to be that window?


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## Jeremiah18.17 (Jun 12, 2019)

chilango said:


> ...and yet the blackouts, the over reliance upon dwindling energy resources, are explicitly shown to be that window?


We can but hope.
However the Viv Rooke comment when asked privately about the blackouts could be taken as them being part of a deliberate strategy of tension to help facilitate disaster capitalism/fascism?


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## imposs1904 (Jun 12, 2019)

D'wards said:


> It's set over 12 years, until 2036.
> 
> I hadn't read anything about it and still wasn't sure what it was about until the air raid siren went off.
> I like Russell Tovey but his accent came and went a bit



I'll be 65 in 2036. It's a sign.


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## Doctor Carrot (Jun 13, 2019)

It seems really really unlikely that either character, one that's basically a human computer, would be able to access a state filing system containing that sort of information without someone noticing. The only way it's believable is if they're acting on behalf of one aspect of the state trying to topple Rook, probably who she means when she says 'they'd have me killed.'


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## Mrs Miggins (Jun 15, 2019)

I thought Emma Thompson was fabulously chilling in that last episode. Yeah it's all a bit far fetched but it's a TV show and I'm finding it bloody entertaining.


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## belboid (Jun 15, 2019)

Doctor Carrot said:


> It seems really really unlikely that either character, one that's basically a human computer, would be able to access a state filing system containing that sort of information without someone noticing. The only way it's believable is if they're acting on behalf of one aspect of the state trying to topple Rook, probably who she means when she says 'they'd have me killed.'


Her abilities are just absurd. Even if she has been secretly recruited by the state, the idea that none of those buildings/organisations would have had no real technological security in them is just ridiculous. And why would they waste them just on her, when anyone could tap into such mindboggling powers?  Makes no sense at all.


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## chilango (Jun 18, 2019)

What the suffering fuck is this ending?!?!?!


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## belboid (Jun 18, 2019)

Ugh ugh ugh. Shittly written drivel.


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## chilango (Jun 18, 2019)

That was fucking rubbish.


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## planetgeli (Jun 18, 2019)

Glad it wasn't just me.


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## D'wards (Jun 18, 2019)

Welllllll rubbish.

He's no Charlie Brooker


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 18, 2019)

Watched all of these. Occasional suggestions of something good wrapped up in absolute wank.


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 18, 2019)

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

not sute about the ending


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## belboid (Jun 18, 2019)

Not just the last fifteen minutes either. The preceding 45 made no sense, completely contradicted the earlier episodes and the entire Hindu pantheon would be insufficient to create all the deus ex machinas invokes.


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## chilango (Jun 18, 2019)

I liked, no loved, it* until he lost the plot (quite literally) in the last 30 minutes or so.

One of the most disappointing endings I've ever seen.

*the series, not the episode.


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## D'wards (Jun 18, 2019)

The dialogue and monologues were pretty ropey, although you could tell Russell and the directors thought they were very moving judging by the stirring music


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## D'wards (Jun 18, 2019)

I enjoyed the Danny trying to get Victor home episode, but the rest was cheesy silly crap after that.


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## chilango (Jun 18, 2019)

I though when she bust the fence round the estate down we might be on to something.

Nope.

Abandoned all the tension, all the menace, all the drama, all the fucking storyline for...for some shit half-assed bolted on sub-Blake's 7 sci-fi nonsense.


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 18, 2019)

*non specific crowds cheering*


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## belboid (Jun 18, 2019)

Because no one else had ever had the idea of driving a van through a fence far smaller than at Glastonbury. The old one at Glastonbury.


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## Proper Tidy (Jun 18, 2019)

I started watching this because the trailer showed rioting yet there was a distinct lack of rioting in the whole series. I'd like to think there would be a pretty large amount of social unrest if a fascist came to power and set up death camps.


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## belboid (Jun 18, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I started watching this because the trailer showed rioting yet there was a distinct lack of rioting in the whole series. I'd like to think there would be a pretty large amount of social unrest if a fascist came to power and set up death camps.


Only when The Holy Family deem it appropriate.


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## Doctor Carrot (Jun 18, 2019)

Yeah I had no clue wtf that ending was. I quite like how they got him out of the camps and exposed it but then it just went weird. For me it just turned really dumb at the point Danny drowned on a migrant crossing, never really recovered after that. Could've been really good but was just a bit too silly. I wish Charlie Brooker had written it instead.


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## belboid (Jun 18, 2019)

belboid said:


> She insists what she said gave nothing away!  She was an extra as well, so _could _have been referring to someone else.


Turns out she was being rather misleading. We did get to see her face tho, briefly


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## Plumdaff (Jun 18, 2019)

RTD just can't help a soppy overwrought ending with big music and the Doctor is sodding Jesus now  unfathomable deus ex machinas, eh. That fizzled out at a terrific rate of knots.


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## 8115 (Jun 19, 2019)

I really enjoyed that. Glad I stuck with it. God but it is close to the bone at the moment.


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## Balbi (Jun 19, 2019)

We don't get this in NZ, but isn't it basically a slightly longer version of Doctor Who's Turn Left?


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## strung out (Jun 19, 2019)

It's even got Murray Gold's dreadful too loud music.


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 19, 2019)

It certainy peaked with episode 4.

All I could think of at the end was this is like a Jessica Hynes as Doctor Who episode*.



*She would make a fucking brilliant Doctor.


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## Chz (Jun 19, 2019)

Haven't seen the last episode yet, but was discussing the series with a friend last night. Basically saying about it, "It's very RTD, quite enjoyable stuff. I bet the ending is going to infuriate absolutely everyone".


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## moochedit (Jun 19, 2019)

belboid said:


> Her abilities are just absurd. Even if she has been secretly recruited by the state, the idea that none of those buildings/organisations would have had no real technological security in them is just ridiculous. And why would they waste them just on her, when anyone could tap into such mindboggling powers?  Makes no sense at all.



I think all the other people in the office she worked in were also "modified" to act as spy's?

What i didn't get is if they could give her those implants then surely they would be able to include a bugging or tracking device to keep an eye on what she was using her new powers for. Seems very trusting of them.


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## wiskey (Jun 19, 2019)

I really enjoyed the first 4 and a half episodes .... The last one was a bit ott.


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## chilango (Jun 19, 2019)

It's like he already had the ending written for something else and then got bored with Y&Y once Stephen sent Viktor to the camp so rushed thru the rest to a point where he could crowbar the schmaltzy sci-fi in,band then totally overindulged himself.


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## belboid (Jun 19, 2019)

moochedit said:


> I think all the other people in the office she worked in were also "modified" to act as spy's?
> 
> What i didn't get is if they could give her those implants then surely they would be able to include a bugging or tracking device to keep an eye on what she was using her new powers for. Seems very trusting of them.


By yesterdays episode, clearly everyone else had been implanted, and they'd all come over to Bethany's side without a word being said.  Just cos......storyline demands. 

Totally agree re point 2


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 19, 2019)

I thought it worked when the tech and political developments were the context for the family drama. When they were all pushed to the forefront of those developments it just felt far too forced though. Still an entertaining programme overall.


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## lizzieloo (Jun 20, 2019)

I agree with the politics they're on about here, social justice, fast consumerism is shite etc etc

But is it just me thinking this is all a *bit* "think like the execs at the BBC or the world will be fucked"

It smells somewhat propagandary


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## 8ball (Jun 20, 2019)

It managed to have a good old whine without saying anything substantive enough to get the BBC in trouble.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2019)

lizzieloo said:


> I agree with the politics they're on about here, social justice, fast consumerism is shite etc etc
> 
> But is it just me thinking this is all a *bit* "think like the execs at the BBC or the world will be fucked"
> 
> It smells somewhat propagandary



I'd go more for 'editorial writers at the Guardian' but yes it was pretty heavy handed in its politics.

Although I don't think you can avoid that really - you couldn't do it in a politically neutral way I don't think.


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## Wookey (Jun 20, 2019)

I thought the streak of self-preservation and self-centredness of the matriarch Gran in spending the kids' inheritance was hilarious. 

Was over-wraught bollix by the end tho.


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## 8ball (Jun 20, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'd go more for 'editorial writers at the Guardian' but yes it was pretty heavy handed in its politics.
> 
> Although I don't think you can avoid that really - you couldn't do it in a politically neutral way I don't think.



Did you ever watch GBH?  (Alan Bleasdale drama - early 90s)


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2019)

8ball said:


> Did you ever watch GBH?  (Alan Bleasdale drama - early 90s)



No I don't think so, not that I remember anyway. Is it a similar idea?


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## 8ball (Jun 20, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> No I don't think so, not that I remember anyway. Is it a similar idea?



Not remotely, but it's the finest example that comes to mind of handling substantive (far more so than in Y&Y) politics with a deftness that makes it look so easy.  Watching RTD's flounderings underlines that it is not easy at all.

Tbf - this was nearly 30 years ago, I wonder what I'd think if I watched it now..


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2019)

8ball said:


> Not remotely, but it's the finest example that comes to mind of handling substantive (far more so than in Y&Y) politics with a deftness that makes it look so easy.  Watching RTD's flounderings underlines that it is not easy at all.



OK cool - I'll have to look out for it.

I certainly agree Y&Y could have done it (much) better, just suggesting though that there's always going to be something of the writers politics that come through however its handled.


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## 8ball (Jun 20, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> OK cool - I'll have to look out for it.
> 
> I certainly agree Y&Y could have done it (much) better, just suggesting though that there's always going to be something of the writers politics that come through however its handled.



Oh sure, it very much comes through in GBH later on, too, but it is seamless in terms of the characters, their development, their motivations that they should be saying and doing these things.  There is never any ex machina style jarring, or people suddenly doing things out of character because a point needs making and Gran isn't available.

Not that I remember, anyway.  And my memory is pretty good* (autistic spectrum thing maybe).

* - Do you remember a chocolate bar called _Take 5_? That was advertised at least once in the ad breaks of every episode of GBH when it was first shown on Channel 4.  What is the bloody point of taking up brain space with that?


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## D'wards (Jun 20, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'd go more for 'editorial writers at the Guardian' but yes it was pretty heavy handed in its politics.
> 
> Although I don't think you can avoid that really - you couldn't do it in a politically neutral way I don't think.


It was a bit lower-sixth politics a-level student


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2019)

D'wards said:


> It was a bit lower-sixth politics a-level student



I'm not sure if that's better or worse than Guardian editorial writer tbh.


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## Chilli.s (Jun 20, 2019)

I didn't hate it, quite enjoyed. It's a plot full of holes so suspending any intense scrutiny helps.


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## chilango (Jun 20, 2019)

I wasn't too bothered by the sloppy politics as long as the story/plot/pace/tension was good. It was  when that unravelled that it became jarring.

I mean E1 was (as I posted upthread) a really clear scream of liberal anguish. But, damn, the pace and tension soon made me forgive that. Even the Danny dying stuff -which was laying it on pretty thickly- got away with it because of the quality of the tv. 

But the last episode really left it exposed as everything narrative wise was abruptly dumped so that he could race on to dwell on his moral punchline.


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## kittyP (Jun 20, 2019)

I can understand what all of you are saying but I still thoroughly enjoyed it!   
I feel utterly emotionally rinsed after it all.


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## captainmission (Jun 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> I wasn't too bothered by the sloppy politics as long as the story/plot/pace/tension was good. It was  when that unravelled that it became jarring.
> 
> I mean E1 was (as I posted upthread) a really clear scream of liberal anguish. But, damn, the pace and tension soon made me forgive that. Even the Danny dying stuff -which was laying it on pretty thickly- got away with it because of the quality of the tv.
> 
> But the last episode really left it exposed as everything narrative wise was abruptly dumped so that he could race on to dwell on his moral punchline.



The narrative unravelling is a result of the sloppy politics though. Davies's liberalism has nothing to to say, no insight and  no response to right wing populism beyond tutting (exemplified by the Grans speech that _someone should do something_). The response to concentration camps might borrow the aesthetics of revolution (a van crashing through a barrier, a rocket launcher to a mobile phone mast, both which which rapidly defuse) but ultimately comes down to reporting the issue to the appropriate authorities who will make it all better.

The series reminded me a lot of the comic series Transmetropolitan - near future setting, transhumanist themes. Works best when focusing on more personal human stories. When it tries to do wider political theme (it was the early 2000's so it's villain is a authoritarian Blairite figure) it's authors liberalism leads to a similar damp squib of an ending.


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## Schmetterling (Jun 21, 2019)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Yeah I had no clue wtf that ending was. I quite like how they got him out of the camps and exposed it but then it just went weird. For me it just turned really dumb at the point *Danny drowned on a migrant crossing*, never really recovered after that. Could've been really good but was just a bit too silly. I wish Charlie Brooker had written it instead.



With his boots miraculously back on.


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 24, 2019)

D'wards said:


> Welllllll rubbish.
> 
> He's no Charlie Brooker



Well, I enjoyed this so much more than the recent Black Mirror efforts.


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## quimcunx (Jun 24, 2019)

kittyP said:


> I have always found Russell Tovey deeply attractive



He lives just a few feet away from where I am sitting right now..... I see him fairly regularly.


I've not watched this yet.  I keep forgetting hopefully they haven't done that thing of deleting the first episode before the rest.   that said I saw a little clip the other day that didn't impress me.


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## kalidarkone (Jun 24, 2019)

I loved the ending because it was hopeful. It made me feel relieved. Despite it being unrealistic.  I'm a romantic....

But yes there would have definitely been more riots, specially in Bristol! A new tesco and introducing residents parking permits in St Pauls caused a huge backlash. ......


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## lazythursday (Jun 24, 2019)

I really loved this until the last episode. The rebellion just seemed a bit of a damp squib and not properly fleshed out, then the ending... for fuck's sake Russell. Haven't you already bolted this kind of ending on to Queer As Folk and all your worst Doctor Who episodes?


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## D'wards (Jun 24, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> Well, I enjoyed this so much more than the recent Black Mirror efforts.


Aye, the last series wisnae so hot either


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## RubyBlue (Jun 24, 2019)

Only just found about this over the weekend and watched it all in two goes. Absolutely loved it although sad at times.


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## editor (Jul 1, 2019)

I liked it. The storyline about crossing the channel was really moving.


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## Wookey (Jul 14, 2019)

quimcunx said:


> He lives just a few feet away from where I am sitting right now..... I see him fairly regularly.
> 
> 
> I've not watched this yet.  I keep forgetting hopefully they haven't done that thing of deleting the first episode before the rest.   that said I saw a little clip the other day that didn't impress me.



I need the address and a rough breakdown of his daily movements. Ta.


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## miss direct (Jul 14, 2019)

I didn’t understand why Danny got on the boat. Ok, he’d lost (handed over) his passport, but as a British citizen there was no need for him to get on the boat.


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## chilango (Jul 14, 2019)

miss direct said:


> I didn’t understand why Danny got on the boat. Ok, he’d lost (handed over) his passport, but as a British citizen there was no need for him to get on the boat.



Because otherwise it's only be the foreigners who drowned and nobody would care, right?


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