# Brixton news, rumour and general chat - September 2014



## editor (Sep 1, 2014)

Following on from last month's thread, here's the one for September. 

And what better way to put us in the mood for the month ahead than with a blast of Earth, Wind & Fire. 



And here's some weather facts:


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## T & P (Sep 1, 2014)

Here's betting we don't hit average temperatures this year


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 1, 2014)

Monday apart the weeks forecast for Brixton is sunny and warm. Average of 21 degrees  Bring it on.


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## Ms T (Sep 1, 2014)

I think September will be better than August, weather-wise.


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## Thimble Queen (Sep 1, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I think September will be better than August, weather-wise.



Bloody hope so. Most of August was grim weather wise.


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## Miss-Shelf (Sep 1, 2014)

ooo a nice clean thread just like having clean sheets


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## snowy_again (Sep 1, 2014)

The secret of Abba in the lido is revealed (Tricky Skills)


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## editor (Sep 1, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> The secret of Abba in the lido is revealed (Tricky Skills)




Photo feature here: http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/08/...mmers-make-a-splash-and-raise-money-for-rnli/


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## Manter (Sep 1, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> The secret of Abba in the lido is revealed (Tricky Skills)



I love the shouted instructions


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## editor (Sep 1, 2014)

Some Brixton news:

Details announced for the first Brixton Cycling Fair in Windrush Square on Friday 12th September
Brixton Windmill calls for local artists to submit art for their Head Out of Space event on Saturday 20 September


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 2, 2014)

Getting into the tube station was a bastard this morning. That is all.


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## leanderman (Sep 2, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Getting into the tube station was a bastard this morning. That is all.



Passenger numbers at Brixton Tube rose 50 per cent between 2001 and 2011. And I doubt the rise stopped there.


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## Rushy (Sep 2, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Passenger numbers at Brixton Tube rose 50 per cent between 2001 and 2011. And I doubt the rise stopped there.


Any idea how that compares to the rest of zone 2?


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 2, 2014)

One of the platforms was closed today too, so people were backed up into the street and they were closing the main entrance to control the flow.

To be fair, they managed as best as they possibly could and it did keep moving, but it does feel like more and more people are going through that station everyday. By 8.30am it's a mare.


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## leanderman (Sep 2, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Any idea how that compares to the rest of zone 2?



No. 

Intriguingly, in that period, Brixton Tube use rose by 50 per cent while Lambeth's population rose by something like 17 per cent.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

leanderman said:


> No.
> 
> Intriguingly, in that period, Brixton Tube use rose by 50 per cent while Lambeth's population rose by something like 17 per cent.


Village effect, plus more shows at the Academy must have contributed to that.


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Passenger numbers at Brixton Tube rose 50 per cent between 2001 and 2011. And I doubt the rise stopped there.


An 80% rise to the present day (22.5m in 2011, 27m in 2013)


Rushy said:


> Any idea how that compares to the rest of zone 2?


Well, tube numbers overall haven't risen that fast (.97bn to 1.23bn in the same time period - a rise of 26%), so it's fairly safe to assume that Brixton's growth is atypical.


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## elmpp (Sep 2, 2014)

editor said:


> Village effect, plus more shows at the Academy must have contributed to that.


Not many village visits before 9am.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

elmpp said:


> Not many village visits before 9am.


Have you seen the passenger increases broken down by time then?


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## boohoo (Sep 2, 2014)

Brixton's night life has also taken off over the last few years. Possibly a mixture of this and Brixton (not just the village) becoming a place to go out at night.


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## Ms T (Sep 2, 2014)

editor said:


> Village effect, plus more shows at the Academy must have contributed to that.


The Village hadn't really got going by then.


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## boohoo (Sep 2, 2014)

Ms T said:


> The Village hadn't really got going by then.



True - it might have some factor in the 2011 - 2013 in Crispy's post. I wander how many people avoid the village in the last year or so. I know I do.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

Ms T said:


> The Village hadn't really got going by then.


It was on its way. This was from 2010:












http://www.urban75.org/brixton/features/brixton-pound-party-brixton-village.html


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## boohoo (Sep 2, 2014)

That was the Brixton pound party otherwise it was still pretty quiet (eta - can't believe how long ago that was!)


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

boohoo said:


> I wander how many people avoid the village in the last year or so. I know I do.


Me!


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## Ms T (Sep 2, 2014)

When I moved to London in 1993 my first job was on Regent St and I don't remember ever having to queue to get into the tube at Oxford Circus. Fast forward 20 years (gulp) and I work in that area again and the tube regularly closes at peak times due to overcrowding. Brixton Tube is often pretty busy even at 7am.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

boohoo said:


> That was the Brixton pound party otherwise it was still pretty quiet (eta - can't believe how long ago that was!)


The writing was on the wall. This was in July 2010.


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## Ms T (Sep 2, 2014)

boohoo said:


> True - it might have some factor in the 2011 - 2013 in Crispy's post. I wander how many people avoid the village in the last year or so. I know I do.


Weekday lunchtimes are OK but evenings and weekends, not so much.


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## boohoo (Sep 2, 2014)

editor said:


> The writing was on the wall. This was in July 2010.



This was the spacemakers period - wander how many of the businesses that started off the back of that are still there.


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

Here's how it looked on a regular Saturday in March 2010. Getting busier! Sunday openings started in Nov the same year.


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## leanderman (Sep 2, 2014)

Brixton Hill buses seem a lot busier too.


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 2, 2014)

In the 4 years since I've lived on Brixton Hill the buses seem to have got much much busier. 

Its a real struggle to get on the bus between 8.15 and 9, not helped by the lazy fuckers who won't move upstairs, leaving upstairs half empty with the bottom floor packed. Watching the half empty buses sail past is very annoying. Especially as most people get off at Brixton and I get the bus all the way to work so need to get a specific one.


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## elmpp (Sep 2, 2014)

editor said:


> Have you seen the passenger increases broken down by time then?


No, just following the conversation - tube closed regularly before 9


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

elmpp said:


> No, just following the conversation - tube closed regularly before 9


You've lost me here, I'm afraid.


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## T & P (Sep 2, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Getting into the tube station was a bastard this morning. That is all.


When I saw your post, I _nearly_ replied 'I blame the hipsters'.

It seems I needn't have bothered anyway


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## quimcunx (Sep 2, 2014)

elmpp said:


> Not many village visits before 9am.



More pertinently there wasn't much village before 2011. The figures leanderman quoted were were for 2001-2011.


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> In the 4 years since I've lived on Brixton Hill the buses seem to have got much much busier.
> 
> Its a real struggle to get on the bus between 8.15 and 9, not helped by the lazy fuckers who won't move upstairs, leaving upstairs half empty with the bottom floor packed. Watching the half empty buses sail past is very annoying. Especially as most people get off at Brixton and I get the bus all the way to work so need to get a specific one.


You just have to leave a little earlier. The difference between 07:55 and 08:05 is amazing


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> More pertinently there wasn't much village before 2011. The figures leanderman quoted were were for 2001-2011.


See my earlier posts: the village was already 'in motion' by 2010 and beginning to attract new crowds. Not huge ones mind, but it was already noticeably far busier than before, and some events attracted fairly sizeable crowds.

Blimey. It seems like a lifetime ago reading reviews like this: 
http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/how-brixtons-arcade-got-a-new-lease-of-life-6502388.html
http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/creating-a-new-community-in-brixton-south-london.html


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 2, 2014)

Crispy said:


> You just have to leave a little earlier. The difference between 07:55 and 08:05 is amazing



I don't want to leave earlier, I want to leave when I need to and be able to get on a bus... 

And those twats that park in the bus lane outside the banks in Brixton to collect the takings, don't start me on them... 

And the millions of school children on buses... When I was a child I had to walk miles to school in the rain*

Grumble grumble grumble, old grumbly person

*Not really, I just spent my tram money on take away food and underage cigarettes


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## Rushy (Sep 2, 2014)

elmpp said:


> No, just following the conversation - tube closed regularly before 9


Yes - you are right. The recent levels of early morning congestion suggests that a great deal of the increase in volume is from regular commuters. It didn't used to be like that in the morning. I would not rule out one or two turning up extra early to get a prime place in the burger and pizza queues though - the burgers are very good.


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## Rushy (Sep 2, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> I don't want to leave earlier, I want to leave when I need to and be able to get on a bus...
> 
> And those twats that park in the bus lane outside the banks in Brixton to collect the takings, don't start me on them...
> 
> ...


When did they stop making underage cigarettes?


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 2, 2014)

Rushy said:


> When did they stop making underage cigarettes?



DOH, cigarettes when I was underage.. When they used to sell single cigarettes to clearly underage teenagers


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## Rushy (Sep 2, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> DOH, cigarettes when I was underage.. When they used to sell single cigarettes to clearly underage teenagers



Not these then?


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 2, 2014)

Nope, far to innocent for my teenage self..


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## Rushy (Sep 2, 2014)

More your style?


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## Nanker Phelge (Sep 2, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> DOH, cigarettes when I was underage.. When they used to sell single cigarettes to clearly underage teenagers



Teofani tobacco factory, Brixton, south London, 1916


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## boohoo (Sep 2, 2014)

editor said:


> See my earlier posts: the village was already 'in motion' by 2010 and beginning to attract new crowds. Not huge ones mind, but it was already noticeably far busier than before, and some events attracted fairly sizeable crowds.
> 
> Blimey. It seems like a lifetime ago reading reviews like this:
> http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/how-brixtons-arcade-got-a-new-lease-of-life-6502388.html
> http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/creating-a-new-community-in-brixton-south-london.html



I expect the crowd was a lot more local back then.


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 2, 2014)

During the super rush hour, even the 59 is full by the time it gets down to Somers Road, it only starts on the other side of the South Circular so in 3 - 4 bus stops there are enough people to fill the bus, without even considering the other 7 bus routes that service the hill


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

boohoo said:


> I expect the crowd was a lot more local back then.


A bit more local, I'd say. 
A lot came in with the Spacemakers lot.


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## leanderman (Sep 2, 2014)

editor said:


> A bit more local, I'd say.
> A lot came in with the Spacemakers lot.



I really don't think Brixton Village has that much to do with this commuter surge!


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## ericjarvis (Sep 2, 2014)

While we are on the subject of cigarettes. It's a myth that smoking kills. There must be at least 500 people alive today because I walked away and had a cig rather than kill them.


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 2, 2014)

I don't think the commuter surge is directly related to the Village, although the way it has influenced how people feel about Brixton may have attracted more people who have moved into the area who can afford to commute via tube.


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## prunus (Sep 2, 2014)

I have nothing useful to add, but like getting updates for this thread


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## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> I don't think the commuter surge is directly related to the Village, although the way it has influenced how people feel about Brixton may have attracted more people who have moved into the area who can afford to commute via tube.


I don't think it's contributed to the commuter surge either, but it's certainly added to the passenger figures coming into Brixton later in the day/eve, given the queues that can be seen there most of the weekend and through the week.

It would be interesting to see the growth in numbers against the time of day because there's no question in my mind that the tube is much busier n the evenings now.


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## Rushy (Sep 2, 2014)

I've not really studied the ins and outs of commuting but I suspect that if it is busier with lots more commuters in the morning, one or two of them probably go home via Brixton at some point too.


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## T & P (Sep 2, 2014)

editor said:


> I don't think it's contributed to the commuter surge either, but it's certainly added to the passenger figures coming into Brixton later in the day/eve, given the queues that can be seen there most of the weekend and through the week.
> 
> It would be interesting to see the growth in numbers against the time of day because there's no question in my mind that the tube is much busier n the evenings now.


I would have thought that's a good thing for Brixton, tbh...


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 2, 2014)

The morning commute is much more concentrated though. Everyone is rushing to work at the same time. Its more spread out over the evening as people finish at different times and socialise after work.


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## Boudicca (Sep 2, 2014)

The other thing that happened over that period was the introduction of the congestion zone and general speeding up of bus routes. Not just Brixton, of course.


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## leanderman (Sep 2, 2014)

T & P said:


> I would have thought that's a good thing for Brixton, tbh...



Wrong kind of people!


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## Rushy (Sep 2, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> The morning commute is much more concentrated though. Everyone is rushing to work at the same time. Its more spread out over the evening as people finish at different times and socialise after work.


Indeed. But it has always been so. The tube can't manage the 50% increase concentrated in the morning - luckily the 50% is more spread out on the way home.


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## leanderman (Sep 2, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Indeed. But it has always been so. The tube can't manage the 50% increase concentrated in the morning - luckily the 50% is more spread out on the way home.



And some people don't even make it back. The exit numbers are smaller than entries, I think.


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## quimcunx (Sep 2, 2014)

leanderman said:


> And some people don't even make it back. The exit numbers are smaller than entries, I think.




Party people getting the night bus home?  Or luring people back on the night bus for parties who get the tube in the morning?


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## Rushy (Sep 2, 2014)

leanderman said:


> And some people don't even make it back. The exit numbers are smaller than entries, I think.


That was me on Sunday. 2 minutes late. £30 cab ride.


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## billythefish (Sep 2, 2014)

Boudicca said:


> The other thing that happened over that period was the introduction of the congestion zone and general speeding up of bus routes. Not just Brixton, of course.


I go with the bus theory - they added dozens of bus routes during Ken's incumbency as mayor, many converging on Brixton. I see hoards of people crossing the road from buses to get to the tube station in the morning. It's not far off a scene I would expect to see in Tokyo.


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## teuchter (Sep 2, 2014)

billythefish said:


> I see hoards of people crossing the road from buses to get to the tube station in the morning. It's not far off a scene I would expect to see in Tokyo.


Most of them too lazy to spend 10 minutes walking down Brixton Hill instead of getting the bus.


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## leanderman (Sep 2, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Most of them too lazy to spend 10 minutes walking down Brixton Hill instead of getting the bus.



I'd speed up London buses - and improve the capital's health - by barring all but the infirm from using them for three or fewer stops.


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## teuchter (Sep 2, 2014)

When I lived on Brixton Hill I never used to gain myself an extra 5 minutes in bed by getting the bus down to the tube rather than walking. Absolutely never.


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## simonSW2 (Sep 2, 2014)

I have often witnessed able bodied folk scramble onto the bus at Rush Common to go two stops to Brixton.
The wait at Lambeth Town Hall is usually longer than the walk, yet these merry fools persist, daily, to torment my faith in human ingenuity.


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## Winot (Sep 2, 2014)

leanderman said:


> No.
> 
> Intriguingly, in that period, Brixton Tube use rose by 50 per cent while Lambeth's population rose by something like 17 per cent.



Rise in young sharers in Brixton as you have noted previously. More likely to use the tube. Tubing it is a young person's game.


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 2, 2014)

I've noticed if I leave the house after 7am my bus journey takes 5mins more. Travelling after 7.30 takes 15-20 mins more. 
Bus before 7am is usually nice and quite.


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## Crispy (Sep 2, 2014)

Winot said:


> Rise in young sharers in Brixton as you have noted previously. More likely to use the tube. Tubing it is a young person's game.


There's a wealth factor too. The tube is more than twice the price of the bus.


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## quimcunx (Sep 2, 2014)

When you travel at the late end of the rush hour, leaving a bit earlier rarely yields an equal pay off in arrival time at work. 

shakespearegirl  I used to get that but find it has improved.  I may have just started leaving later, mind.


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## SpamMisery (Sep 2, 2014)

Bus wankers!

I cycle because of the bus journey taking longer


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 3, 2014)

Well I can report there was no crowding or delays on the very early shift this morning. Brixton hill to waterloo 20 mins


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## Smick (Sep 3, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I'd speed up London buses - and improve the capital's health - by barring all but the infirm from using them for three or fewer stops.



you'd get my vote. The only problem is that the buses trend to stop even if nobody is getting on our off.

I used to get a train to Elephant and take the bus to Monument with a zone 2-3. Then I realised that the pedestrians going down Borough High Street were the same people right to Borough market so I started to walk it instead.

The tube is definitely quicker, more e expensive and full of younger, better dressed people. Socially engineered first class commuting.


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## boohoo (Sep 3, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I'd speed up London buses - and improve the capital's health - by barring all but the infirm from using them for three or fewer stops.


and us with small child or buggy!


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## boohoo (Sep 3, 2014)

Welcome to September - this month we are mostly talking about buses.


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## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

boohoo said:


> and us with small child or buggy!


Encouraging people with buggies onto buses keeps the pavements safer.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I'd speed up London buses - and improve the capital's health - by barring all but the infirm from using them for three or fewer stops.


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## boohoo (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Encouraging people with buggies onto buses keeps the pavements safer.


I forgot you were a buggy hater!


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## clandestino (Sep 3, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I'd speed up London buses - and improve the capital's health - by barring all but the infirm from using them for three or fewer stops.



Surely this would slow down London buses, as they'd be constantly stopping for a few minutes to let people on and off the bus, after their maximum three stops.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

This has saddened me greatly. 
Goodbye Reggae Night at the Stockwell Queen’s Head


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## aussw9 (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> This has saddened me greatly.
> Goodbye Reggae Night at the Stockwell Queen’s Head



Top Venue, havent been to a Wednesday evening althought its h-ard to really blame that one on Gentrification


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## leanderman (Sep 3, 2014)

clandestino said:


> Surely this would slow down London buses, as they'd be constantly stopping for a few minutes to let people on and off the bus, after their maximum three stops.



Minimum three stops.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> Top Venue, havent been to a Wednesday evening althought its h-ard to really blame that one on Gentrification


I haven't blamed it on gentrification, although it was one of the last places left that had any of the old Brixton character and mix. You can blame gentrification on the lack of an alternative venue though - the Grosvenor would have been a pretty good option, but that's been killed dead by pub destroyers Golfrate.


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## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

Aren't you conflating two issues - the night has grown to be too big and popular for that pub, exacerbated by the smoking ban. 

Any sensible promoter would be looking to take on such a night with a proven regular audience.


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## leanderman (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I haven't blamed it on gentrification, although it was one of the last places left that had any of the old Brixton character and mix. You can blame gentrification on the lack of an alternative venue though - the Grosvenor would have been a pretty good option, but that's been killed dead by pub destroyers Golfrate.




Hang on a minute, did you not say this in the Grosvenor thread?

   ''I'm writing a longer piece about this for Brixton Buzz, but it's worth noting that it's not Golfrate to blame for the forthcoming changes at the Grosvenor but the gentrification of the area.

There's a big upmarket housing development being built right opposite the venue (and another proposed at the back), and the current landlord is convinced that there is no way his new, well heeled neighbours are going to put up with the noise, so he's getting out before the complaints and hassle start.''


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Any sensible promoter would be looking to take on such a night with a proven regular audience.


At what venue would you suggest? Have you been to the reggae night?


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Hang on a minute, did you not say this in the Grosvenor thread?
> 
> ''I'm writing a longer piece about this for Brixton Buzz, but it's worth noting that it's not Golfrate to blame for the forthcoming changes at the Grosvenor but the gentrification of the area.
> 
> There's a big upmarket housing development being built right opposite the venue (and another proposed at the back), and the current landlord is convinced that there is no way his new, well heeled neighbours are going to put up with the noise, so he's getting out before the complaints and hassle start.''


That was written before Golfrate announced that they intended to convert the upstairs of the Grosvenor into flats. That effectively killed off any remaining hope of the place retaining any of its character.  And now that they've announced they want to turn it into retail unit, that's killed off any hope of it being any kind of pub at all (even though the Lambeth planning decision gave a brief glimmer of hope in that area).


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## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Have you been to the reggae night?



No - which is a shame. I've heard so much about it on here and it sounded great, so I've been meaning to go. Bugger.

snowy is right though - having a proven following will help it find a new venue. If not Brixton, hopefully nearby.
Jamm maybe?


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> No - which is a shame. I've heard so much about it on here and it sounded great, so I've been meaning to go. Bugger.
> 
> snowy is right though - having a proven following will help it find a new venue. If not Brixton, hopefully nearby.
> Jamm maybe?


If you knew the night and the crowd, you'll know why it is hugely unlikely they'll be able to find a suitable alternative venue. 

I spent some time suggesting every venue I could think of to the promoter last night, and I understood fully why he turned them all down. The venue, the vibe and its location, were all part of what made the night so bloody special.


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## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

So you knew that other venues had been considered and dismissed, why didn't you include that in your initial comment on the night's closure?


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## boohoo (Sep 3, 2014)

Only the 3rd and the arguments over who gentrifying what when why have appeared already.  And who said what, etc....


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## aussw9 (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I haven't blamed it on gentrification, although it was one of the last places left that had any of the old Brixton character and mix. You can blame gentrification on the lack of an alternative venue though - the Grosvenor would have been a pretty good option, but that's been killed dead by pub destroyers Golfrate.



I probably shouldn't have used the quote function there, however what viable alternatives would there have been gentrified Brixton or not?


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## clandestino (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> If you knew the night and the crowd, you'll know why it is hugely unlikely they'll be able to find a suitable alternative venue.
> 
> I spent some time suggesting every venue I could think of to the promoter last night, and I understood fully why he turned them all down. The venue, the vibe and its location, were all part of what made the night so bloody special.



Wouldn't Jamm work for them? Sure it's not used midweek, fairly near, and has a good track record when it comes to reggae. I went to a Congo Natty night there that was pretty good.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

clandestino said:


> Wouldn't Jamm work for them? Sure it's not used midweek, fairly near, and has a good track record when it comes to reggae. I went to a Congo Natty night there that was pretty good.


Not really, because it worked so well because of the area it was in, the intimacy of the venue, the 'unique' style of the bar and the fact that it was a pub and not a club.

I know from running years of nights there that JAMM may as well be in Highgate to some Brixton people.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> So you knew that other venues had been considered and dismissed, why didn't you include that in your initial comment on the night's closure?


I didn't realise I was expected to file a full report and anticipate any further questions on the matter!

If anyone who knows the night has any viable ideas for alternatives, please post them here and I'd be happy to forward them on to the promoter. I can't think of any, to be honest.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> I probably shouldn't have used the quote function there, however what viable alternatives would there have been gentrified Brixton or not?


I've already said. The Grosvenor would have been a good replacement. Maybe even the Atlantis bar but that's going to be a cocktail bar now. Possibly the George IV.

The saddest thing is that the mix of people that this night brought together is unlikely to be found again, and that feels like another bit of Brixton that's being lost forever.


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## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

Why can't a cocktail bar suit?

Mango was technically a cocktail and food place; but had a big focus on reggae.


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## SpamMisery (Sep 3, 2014)

Things change, you have to adapt. 

There used be (possibly still is) an awesome reggae bar in Reading that only sold cocktails and the odd beer.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Why can't a cocktail bar suit?
> 
> Mango was technically a cocktail and food place; but had a big focus on reggae.


Because the people who went there weren't cocktail bar people and - quite probably - many of them wouldn't be able to afford cocktail bar prices. It wasn't that kind of night. Think Hamilton Arms. Or Bradys.


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## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

Or Mango...


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Or Mango...


Personally, I don't think the night would have worked so well there. It had quite a different vibe (and location) to the Queens.


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I didn't realise I was expected to file a full report and anticipate any further questions on the matter!
> 
> If anyone who knows the night has any viable ideas for alternatives, please post them here and I'd be happy to forward them on to the promoter. I can't think of any, to be honest.


What sort of numbers was the night pulling in? I will ask about for them.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> What sort of numbers was the night pulling in? I will ask about for them.


At the end it was very busy - as in a full house - with only locals and regulars often only being let in after 1am.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Actually, the Railway Tulse Hill comes close although I hear they've been getting some hassle recently...


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> No - which is a shame. I've heard so much about it on here and it sounded great, so I've been meaning to go. Bugger.
> 
> snowy is right though - having a proven following will help it find a new venue. If not Brixton, hopefully nearby.
> Jamm maybe?


Jamm can be expensive to hire, A big crowd is needed to cover the cost and pay bar staff/security.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Actually, the Railway Tulse Hill comes close although I hear they've been getting some hassle recently...


 
If you can't afford cocktail bar prices you probably want to avoid the Railway as well tbh. It's certainly not cheap.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> At the end it was very busy - as in a full house - with only locals and regulars often only being let in after 1am.


!50 maybe ? 200?


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> If you can't afford cocktail bar prices you probably want to avoid the Railway as well tbh. It's certainly not cheap.


I'll cross that one off the list then!

The Albert is quite close in vibe to the Queens (in fact there was a substantial crossover of punters) but there is no way the landlord will want to host a reggae night on Coldharbour Lane.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> !50 maybe ? 200?


150 maybe? Hard to calculate really, but definitely more than 50.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

Hoootananny sounds ideal but i think one promoter has a grip in there,Maybe worth looking into!


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> 150 maybe? Hard to calculate really, but definitely more than 50.


Thanks, I will ask around and hopefully get back to you.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Hoootananny sounds ideal but i think one promoter has a grip in there,Maybe worth looking into!


I'm not a fan of the Hoot. Hideous prices, barn like interior and heavy security. And I was treated really badly when I DJd there with nipsla.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm not a fan of the Hoot. Hideous prices, barn like interior and heavy security. And I was treated really badly when I DJd there with nipsla.


Fair enough,Shame though as they like there roots and you can pack em in.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Fair enough,Shame though as they like there roots and you can pack em in.


Without trying to get too precious about the Queens night, what made it so good that it was off the radar and thus attracted an old school local crowd - which seemed to help make it an extremely friendly night.


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

Then the choices seem to be:

Find a another venue that can do a similar night for larger numbers at no cost 
Run more nights at the same place and spread the crowd across them
Cope with bigger demand by going to a place that can accommodate the demand and somehow manage the costs of security (that's licensing law getting in the way there, not gentrification)


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

Or just move to Off the Cuff?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Without trying to get too precious about the Queens night, what made it so good that it was off the radar and thus attracted an old school local crowd - which seemed to help make it an extremely friendly night.


I lost a residency in Brixton and moved it to Peckham, Complete fail


----------



## aussw9 (Sep 3, 2014)

Whats going to go in place on a Wednesday eve then?


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> Whats going to go in place on a Wednesday eve then?


Just a normal pub night that closes early


----------



## aussw9 (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I've already said. The Grosvenor would have been a good replacement. Maybe even the Atlantis bar but that's going to be a cocktail bar now. Possibly the George IV.



Would the Grosvenor been able to open until 3am on Wednesday? Showing my ignorance here, as i am not out late on school nights these days. 

Who is re-opening the old bar and grill/atlantis?


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> Would the Grosvenor been able to open until 3am on Wednesday? Showing my ignorance here, as i am not out late on school nights these days.


It had a late license but what made the night so good at the Queen's wasn't the fact that it stayed open particularly late; it was the vibe, the place, the owner, the location and the people that made up such a unique mix. I wish it was easily transferable but I suspect that is one of those nights that only worked where it was.


aussw9 said:


> Who is re-opening the old bar and grill/atlantis?


Antic.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> At the end it was very busy - as in a full house - with only locals and regulars often only being let in after 1am.


Is that a good thing? Sounds a bit exclusive to me.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Is that a good thing? Sounds a bit exclusive to me.


If you got there early but you'd be fine to get in every night, but I have no problem whatsoever with a packed bar giving preference to the people who have supported it for years when they're trying to get in at 1am. What else do you expect them to do?


----------



## superfly101 (Sep 3, 2014)

Buy a £10 bag and a couple of pot noodles for later?


----------



## boohoo (Sep 3, 2014)

Some spoken word about the village
http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-massiah-brixton-village-gentrification-video


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

If I get one more fucking media request to come on TV/radio and 'talk about gentrification'...

Maybe I should send them a video clip, with me saying, "It's shit" And "now where's my fee?"


----------



## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Some spoken word about the village
> http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-massiah-brixton-village-gentrification-video


Good to see some commentary moving away from the usual predictable polarised genre descriptions.


----------



## elmpp (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> If I get one more fucking media request to come on TV/radio and 'talk about gentrification'...
> 
> Maybe I should send them a video clip, with me saying, "It's shit" And "now where's my fee?"


They'd have to book Boris to balance that debate


----------



## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

Not strictly Brixton but is anyone feeling like there are a lot more spiders than usual this year?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Not strictly Brixton but is anyone feeling like there are a lot more spiders than usual this year?



Slugs definitely


----------



## Manter (Sep 3, 2014)

Both. And some of both are huge


----------



## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Slugs definitely


Something I only discovered recently is that slugs like to climb at night. Seriously high too. The 40 or 50' ash in my garden is like a slug superhighway at night. The whole trunk sparkles quite beautifully with slug goo.


----------



## Manter (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Something I only discovered recently is that slugs like to climb at night. Seriously high too. The 40 or 50' ash in my garden is like a slug superhighway at night. The whole trunk sparkles quite beautifully with slug goo.


copper tape.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

Manter said:


> copper tape.


Maybe I'll wait until they're up there and trap them at the top.


----------



## superfly101 (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> If I get one more fucking media request to come on TV/radio and 'talk about gentrification'...
> 
> Maybe I should send them a video clip, with me saying, "It's shit" And "now where's my fee?"


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

Ouch! (£35k, four-day-old Merc at junction with Josephine Ave)


----------



## brixtonblade (Sep 4, 2014)

I just walked past that. 

Is there money in wheels?  I don't know anything about cars.


----------



## steeeve (Sep 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Ouch! (£35k, four-day-old Merc at junction with Josephine Ave)


saw that this morning, the brick probably causing more damage than the cost of replacing the wheels! guess it's too far away for the CCTV?


----------



## steeeve (Sep 4, 2014)

Only too the wheels on one side too, it falling off the brick must have spooked them!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 4, 2014)

brixtonblade said:


> I just walked past that.
> 
> Is there money in wheels?  I don't know anything about cars.


In the sort of shiny wheels you get on a brand new Mercedes, yes


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

Out of range of our CCTV. Not sure what value two wheels have. Must have wanted the whole set. Owner, a young probation worker, was quite stoic.


----------



## technical (Sep 4, 2014)

A young probation worker owning a brand new merc? How much do they get paid nowadays?!


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

technical said:


> A young probation worker owning a brand new merc? How much do they get paid nowadays?!



Her friend, or relative, turned up in a very expensive Audi!


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 4, 2014)

technical said:


> A young probation worker owning a brand new merc? How much do they get paid nowadays?!



Ohhh, it's all bitches n blunts in probation these days


----------



## Smick (Sep 4, 2014)

technical said:


> A young probation worker owning a brand new merc? How much do they get paid nowadays?!


if you were living at home with your parents and not paying rent, a Merc would be affordable. Maybe getting a good mileage rate or car allowance if they are using it for work.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

Smick said:


> if you were living at home with your parents and not paying rent, a Merc would be affordable. Maybe getting a good mileage rate or car allowance if they are using it for work.


You'd have to be an especially laid back kind of parent to let your grown up offspring stay at the house for free while they drive around in a £35k car.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

editor said:


> You'd have to be an especially laid back kind of parent to let your grown up offspring stay at the house for free while they drive around in a £35k car.



Her dad is a Rastafarian!


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 4, 2014)

technical said:


> A young probation worker owning a brand new merc? How much do they get paid nowadays?!


If they can afford 35k car I assume they can afford the insurance.


----------



## trabuquera (Sep 4, 2014)

Insurance costs alone mean realistically this is not within the budget of a probation officer living primarily off their pay packet imho.


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 4, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Insurance costs alone mean realistically this is not within the budget of a probation officer living primarily off their pay packet imho.



Without knowing the no claims or previous convictions etc you could insure it for about £650. Not impossible for a probation officer. I would have thought buying a £35000 car in the first place was the stumbling block. Not a company car one presumes 

Anyway, poor girl. I'd be well pissed


----------



## trabuquera (Sep 4, 2014)

Depends on your home post code but I would be VERY surprised if a young driver living in SW9 and working in probation would be able to insure that car for a mere £650 a year! (and that pic is one good piece of evidence on the reasons why....) You don't work for confused.com do you?


----------



## quimcunx (Sep 4, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Insurance costs alone mean realistically this is not within the budget of a probation officer living primarily off their pay packet imho.



It's a lot cheaper than buying a flat.  If you have low rent and a decent wage but not enough to buy a flat then maybe your choice would be to have an expensive car.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

A lot of young people buy there motors on hp and exchange them for a new one every 2 years, Its easy to get credit for this if you are working and have a regular income.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

If you can afford a brand new car as flashy as that one, I would have thought a garage space would be a wise investment.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> It's a lot cheaper than buying a flat.  If you have low rent and a decent wage but not enough to buy a flat then maybe your choice would be to have an expensive car.



L&Q lets its four-bed family homes on this street for about £900 a month. 

That leaves a young person with a decent job quite some scope to buy a car, even one like this.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

editor said:


> If you can afford a brand new car as flashy as that one, I would have thought a garage space would be a wise investment.



Yep. I was surprised to see it in such a vulnerable position (not overlooked by houses) at 2am. Thieves fled at 6.30am.


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

I can't think of many young people I know who have 'scope' to splash out £35,000 on a brand new luxury car. 

In fact, I don't know any at all - just about all the ones I know are busy holding down several jobs just to pay the rent!


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 4, 2014)

I think it's a bit unfair to be speculating about someone's finances and the rights and wrongs or details of the car they own or the house they live in. It';s a shame for that person, whatever their situation.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> I think it's a bit unfair to be speculating about someone's finances and the rights and wrongs or details of the car they own or the house they live in. It';s a shame for that person, whatever their situation.



True. But it is interesting.

I was expecting the owner to be in property or banking or something


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 4, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Depends on your home post code but I would be VERY surprised if a young driver living in SW9 and working in probation would be able to insure that car for a mere £650 a year! (and that pic is one good piece of evidence on the reasons why....) You don't work for confused.com do you?



Lol no. I just put in the details for a 30 year old with no claims of 6 years for that post code. It was aviva

[EDIT] and no! I don't work for them either


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

Whilst walking around the market today i noticed Bradys is looking very different now, the front has been rendered and looks ready for painting and inside was busy with workmen, I had a quick look in Granville arcade it was very busy with people eating and was awkward trying to pass through the ever shrinking aisles to get to the music temple. The new potato shop at Blacker dreads looks like it's nearing completion and "bootique" seems to be closed all the time. I also noticed an ice cream parlor on Brixton rd, How long has that been there?


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 4, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I also noticed an ice cream parlor on Brixton rd, How long has that been there?



This place? http://www.brixtonblog.com/creams-brixton-road/15883

A while now. Looks odd to me. I thought it was a club when it opened


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> This place? http://www.brixtonblog.com/creams-brixton-road/15883
> 
> A while now. Looks odd to me. I thought it was a club when it opened


That's the one thanks, they are popping up around London at a steady rate.


----------



## Winot (Sep 4, 2014)

Couple of years I think. Winotette 1 went to a birthday party there Christmas 2012. Ice creams are fucking expensive.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> L&Q lets its four-bed family homes on this street for about £900 a month.
> 
> That leaves a young person with a decent job quite some scope to buy a car, even one like this.


Estate agent on Denmark hill has a 2 b/rm flat for rent on Champion hill estate, £1450 pm. Good luck to the L&Q residents.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

Winot said:


> Couple of years I think. Winotette 1 went to a birthday party there Christmas 2012. Ice creams are fucking expensive.


I took my son to a similar place in Saint Reatham , As soon as i saw the marble decor and glitz i put the pound coins back in my pocket and tearfully pulled out a tenner.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> That's the one thanks, they are popping up around London at a steady rate.



Someone on here said parents of teenagers like it because there's no booze involved


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Someone on here said parents of teenagers like it because there's no booze involved


I would agree.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

Double post.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I would agree.



Franchise operation it seems


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Franchise operation it seems


As are most of these type of enterprises, I know a lot of the chicken and pizza places function this way.


----------



## Manter (Sep 4, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> I think it's a bit unfair to be speculating about someone's finances and the rights and wrongs or details of the car they own or the house they live in. It';s a shame for that person, whatever their situation.


Completely agree. Different people value different things and spend their disposable income differently.


----------



## Manter (Sep 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Franchise operation it seems


It looks like the sort of thing you see in Dubai shopping malls. Very glitzy... I wonder what the origin is?

E2a open company isn't being very helpful this evening, but it looks British.....


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> Completely agree. Different people value different things and spend their disposable income differently.


Exactly.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> Completely agree. Different people value different things and spend their disposable income differently.



Which all reminds me of my first car, bought for £400 in 1994 (stock image):


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> It looks like the sort of thing you see in Dubai shopping malls. Very glitzy... I wonder what the origin is?.



popular in dubai shopping malls because of the no-alcohol rule.  we cockneys are only jsut about waking up to the idea that you can go on dates without alcohol but our islamic neighbours mostly know all about this.  as that particular immigrant community gets bigger and has more spending power, shake bars and ice-cream bars etc gain a bit of traction for young teenagers to hang out in places they won;'t get into trouble if seen.


----------



## Manter (Sep 4, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> popular in dubai shopping malls because of the no-alcohol rule.  we cockneys are only jsut about waking up to the idea that you can go on dates without alcohol but our islamic neighbours mostly know all about this.  as that particular immigrant community gets bigger and has more spending power, shake bars and ice-cream bars etc gain a bit of traction for young teenagers to hang out in places they won;'t get into trouble if seen.


Makes a lot of sense. I wondered if it was a UAE business for that reason, but I am failing at half hearted company research this evening


----------



## Winot (Sep 4, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> popular in dubai shopping malls because of the no-alcohol rule.  we cockneys are only jsut about waking up to the idea that you can go on dates without alcohol but our islamic neighbours mostly know all about this.  as that particular immigrant community gets bigger and has more spending power, shake bars and ice-cream bars etc gain a bit of traction for young teenagers to hang out in places they won;'t get into trouble if seen.



Yep. Particularly noticeable on Edgware Road.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> popular in dubai shopping malls because of the no-alcohol rule.  we cockneys are only jsut about waking up to the idea that you can go on dates without alcohol but our islamic neighbours mostly know all about this.  as that particular immigrant community gets bigger and has more spending power, shake bars and ice-cream bars etc gain a bit of traction for young teenagers to hang out in places they won;'t get into trouble if seen.


This makes sense and probably explains why Tooting has 3 on the main high street, It still has a large Asian community.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 4, 2014)

Sudden thought, anyone know how Dexter Deadwood  is doing?


----------



## sparkybird (Sep 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Which all reminds me of my first car, bought for £400 in 1994 (stock image):
> View attachment 60508



This was my fourth car







Bought for £100 (knocked down from £125, as I argued that I had spent money on a return train ticket which I would now not use - what cheek I had back then!)

Sold 2 years later for £200

just call me Arfur Daley


----------



## technical (Sep 4, 2014)

So out of curiosity I just looked at the Mercedes corporate website. Not sure if it was exactly the same car, but you can get something fairly similar for a £2k down payment and then £340 a month for three years. You then either hand it back or pay another £12k or so to keep it. Still out of most peoples reach but i suppose if you're living at your parents it's not out of the question, for the first 3 years anyway. 

Don't think I'll be getting one anytime soon mind


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

OK, it's not Brixton but it somehow seems familiar. And funny. It was posted by my mate Dave on Facebook. 


> A mate of mine lives on a boat on Deptford Creek, a river that flows into the Thames. A few years ago some developers built some faux posh flats opposite him. No word of a lie now, one day at low tide someone from the flats came down to the boat-dwellers, all angry and that, demanding to know where "all the water had gone" because it wasn't like that in the brochure when he bought the place. I heard this yesterday and my head's still in a daze.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Which all reminds me of my first car, bought for £400 in 1994 (stock image):
> View attachment 60508


This is a nice restored version of my first car. Mine had been a farm yard car for 10 yrs was hand brush painted British Racing Green with a black vinyl roof. Bought it for AU$600 (about £200 then) from a pizza take away when very drunk in 1991. I woke up in the back seat holding the transfer docs. Wish someone had told me they'd be selling for AU$50,000 now (like this one)!






It had a 3.5L engine, a front bench seat, column shift and a fan mounted on the dashboard.  I loved it. 10,000 miles later I'd lost the paperwork, the exhaust and the keys and sold it AU$500.

My next car a couple of years later was an 850cc mini.


----------



## zenie (Sep 5, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> popular in dubai shopping malls because of the no-alcohol rule.  we cockneys are only jsut about waking up to the idea that you can go on dates without alcohol but our islamic neighbours mostly know all about this.  as that particular immigrant community gets bigger and has more spending power, shake bars and ice-cream bars etc gain a bit of traction for young teenagers to hang out in places they won;'t get into trouble if seen.


Good place for munchies too, stoners paradise


----------



## leanderman (Sep 5, 2014)

Water Lane danger hoarding update: meeting Lambeth's enforcement (sic) chief there on Wednesday to be told why the hoarding cannot be removed!


----------



## Winot (Sep 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Water Lane danger hoarding update: meeting Lambeth's enforcement (sic) chief there on Wednesday to be told why the hoarding cannot be removed!



Let's go on the lash with Ol Nick Tue night to save him some time.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> Let's go on the lash with Ol Nick Tue night to save him some time.



We did pledge to take it down!


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2014)

Visited Cafe Le Euro today on Effra Road. I liked it. Decent prices, good mix of people there and the owner was very friendly. I'll post up a review soon. 
It's here: Eurolink Business Centre, 49 Effra Rd, London SW2 1BZ


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Sep 6, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Sudden thought, anyone know how Dexter Deadwood  is doing?



Directed at you & thank you (and others) for your support.
I'm ok.

Generally speaking,

I got smashed by A4e and the DWP. Original sanction (July 3rd ) overturned on appeal two days ago, it took them, the DWP, two months to adjudicate because  A4e refused to cooperate. Subsequent sanctions (all eight of them) are in place all of which i have appealed yesterday. Logic and consistency in decision making by LM DMA would dictate that all other sanctions should be reversed given that my non compliance with them (A4e) is for the same reason.

There is no money and there's no apology.
You are always a suspect .

I'm thousands of pounds in debt and edging closer to losing my home that i have lived in for 29 years, this is social cleansing that the free market property developers on this Board want to encourage because they see a broader commercial self  interest.  I did not put myself in debt by applying for a credit card  i had no other option open to me. I was astonished given my history when they gave me £1,000 credit, i actually felt relieved but i know this poison has kept me functioning.

I have maxed out the card and the first payment is due this week, i cannot meet that payment. I never had any intention of doing so.

I have tried very hard to look for work, i had to fake a CV given my history, i got some interest from employers that want to pay commission only and i secured an interview at Greggs The Baker which went very well but their were stronger candidates. Soul destroying.

I can't get a job paying minimum wage and i think that is how serious things are.

I want to make it very clear to people that post on this Board that the reason i don't post on this Board any longer has nothing to do with my mental health, it's because i feel i have been targeted by a group of others most of whom are Thatcher's children but I felt particularly upset when another Board member questioned whether i had invented a relationship with a long term partner, sick ego driven stuff dressed up as northern plain speaking. That seriously upset me.

People discussing my mental health, my personal relationships or my drinking habits as a personal attack or a gambit for an attack on others is fucked up stuff.

I spent some time away from this Board and this thread is the same, identical to any month, property prices and bitching about the price of a burger because  you don't want to deal with the real issues . You can't cope with it. You cut across, you make a classic mistake. If you are going to cut then cut upwards.

So many of you puke about people being paid a living wage to serve you. some of you think going to a prison is a good night out and people are asking what is is wrong with me? No one is asking what is wrong with you.

What are you going to do with people like me that continue to say no?
I will not bend or buckle. That is not a good thing.
I have shown signs of stress that is to be expected given my year and previously i expressed them here because i felt i belonged on the Board. I do not feel that way now.

I stole from you, i'm a benefits cheats, i played tennis with some of you when i should have been looking for work, yes some of them are Tories;  i thought they were human, i thought i was making friends they were just drawing me into an argument with another. It is a sad state of affairs to be manipulated like that. It is an even sadder reflection on myself.

I see very little if any working class solidarity, those in low paid work are fighting the unemployed. There is almost no mention of the unemployed on this main Brixton thread when it ought to be the lead topic.

All you do is talk about property prices but you avoid talking about your own property, your current net wealth. John Lewis? Who the fuck is he?

Some of you middle class people have working class blood on your hands and you feel disgusted by it and you hate people like me pointing out that you missed a bit because your whole house of cards begins to collapse unless you wipe it and people like me away immediately.

On a positive note i want to say thank you to all people on the Board that i regard as at least left leaning that have offered me support and or shown solidarity; it really has helped support me in what has been a dreadful year that i cannot really comprehend.

I have no interest in posting on this Board again.


----------



## Boudicca (Sep 6, 2014)

Well this middle class woolly liberal will miss your posts Dexter Deadwood 

I can’t always agree with you, but I like you and respect you.

Take care x


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2014)

Make of this what you will, but when I walked up Coldharbour Lane last night, I passed three nu-Brixton establishments and the only black person I could see in any of them was the doorman.


----------



## shifting gears (Sep 7, 2014)

I'll make of it exactly what it is, if anyone wants to make a mealy mouthed defence of it then will the usual suspects please step on up - Brixton has been homogenised, diluted, and is becoming a safe haven for the white middle class. And it fucking sucks.


----------



## shifting gears (Sep 7, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Directed at you & thank you (and others) for your support.
> I'm ok.
> 
> Generally speaking,
> ...



NO WAR BUT THE CLASS WAR

Keep your head up son


----------



## CH1 (Sep 7, 2014)

editor said:


> Make of this what you will, but when I walked up Coldharbour Lane last night, I passed three nu-Brixton establishments and the only black person I could see in any of them was the doorman.


Actually when I walked past the Shuttle last night with it's new door wide open, demure security guard and patrons seated at a table almost on the pavement I caught the ambience of Tangier.

This the future. The locals will exist only to serve the security and sensual needs of a transient decadent hedonistic elite.


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 7, 2014)




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## leanderman (Sep 7, 2014)

shifting gears said:


> I'll make of it exactly what it is, if anyone wants to make a mealy mouthed defence of it then will the usual suspects please step on up - Brixton has been homogenised, diluted, and is becoming a safe haven for the white middle class. And it fucking sucks.



Guy I know was lamenting last week the demise of black pubs in Brixton, and went through a long list, some of which are completely lost and I had never heard of. Others he said had changed, such as the Dog Star and the Albert. He said the Effra (Hall Tavern) was the only place he likes to drink at now.


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Guy I know was lamenting last week the demise of black pubs in Brixton, and went through a long list, some of which are completely lost and I had never heard of. Others he said had changed, such as the Dog Star and the Albert. He said the Effra (Hall Tavern) was the only place he likes to drink at now.


The Albert still has a better mix than most, but there's no denying that on some nights it can be unrecognisable as the community boozer of yore. 
The Effra has really changed too - I think I preferred it before the partition was taken down.


----------



## buscador (Sep 7, 2014)

I can't think of a single pub that has been improved by the removal of partitions tbh


----------



## boohoo (Sep 7, 2014)

Went to the Black cultural Archives today - interesting exhibition about black women. Mostly white visitors.


----------



## T & P (Sep 7, 2014)

As a foreigner, I must say pub partitions have always seemed such a weird concept... even divisive, if it resulted different parts of a community being kept apart from each other.

I guess I could google it up, but what was their purpose? Creating separate areas for regulars vs visitors? Blokes vs families? Middle vs working classes?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 7, 2014)

T & P said:


> As a foreigner, I must say pub partitions have always seemed such a weird concept... even divisive, if it resulted different parts of a community being kept apart from each other.
> 
> I guess I could google it up, but what was their purpose? Creating separate areas for regulars vs visitors? Blokes vs families? Middle vs working classes?



In my one-horse home town, it was the latter.


----------



## Manter (Sep 7, 2014)

T & P said:


> As a foreigner, I must say pub partitions have always seemed such a weird concept... even divisive, if it resulted different parts of a community being kept apart from each other.
> 
> I guess I could google it up, but what was their purpose? Creating separate areas for regulars vs visitors? Blokes vs families? Middle vs working classes?


It's from an era when women were seen as delicate flowers, in part- a separate room meant they could take refreshment in peace without being disturbed by the swearing of the male drinkers. Also, usually, there was a taproom which had pretty basic flooring etc so factory or dock workers could drink without having to get changed or cleaned up- beer was usually a little cheaper in the tap room too. 

There are then areas with specific backgrounds- areas with strong unions, partitions meant meetings could be held in private without one of the land/factory owners' men listening in (often pubs in those areas have kind of partitioned rooms in the main room, or were in places that are almost warrens of rooms leading off one another.) and there are some great pubs in cathedral towns that have kind of booths so clerics could drink without being bothered by their parishioners- some even had little curtains you could pull across that would shield your face, but still show everything from the shoulders down so there could be no rumours about immoral goings on.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 7, 2014)

T & P said:


> As a foreigner, I must say pub partitions have always seemed such a weird concept... even divisive, if it resulted different parts of a community being kept apart from each other.
> 
> I guess I could google it up, but what was their purpose? Creating separate areas for regulars vs visitors? Blokes vs families? Middle vs working classes?



As Manter says it was usually division between men and women. Where I grew up in the docklands of Plymouth this was normal. The fishwives went into carpeted section on the other side were the husbands in the public bar.

Didn’t stop the fishwives drinking. They used to drink bottles of barley wine.Which looked small but were very strong  Or they drank halves of a pint. Was not considered right for a woman to drink pints. .

A fisherman lived above us. I remember that on weekends when the husband was not out that weekend the wife would change shape. As she would put on her best including a corset to go to pub with her husband. That was when they took pride in having best clothes to go out in.I remember seeing her make giant pasty for husband for when he came back from a few days at sea. Decent lot the fishermen.

I’m not so sure that its was about women being delicate flowers. It was more that it was a traditional working class gendered culture. Pubs around my way where used by working class as they populated that area. The divisions in the community where between working class areas like the one I grew up in and the more middle class areas away from the docks and fish market.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 7, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Went to the Black cultural Archives today - interesting exhibition about black women. Mostly white visitors.



I want to see that.

BTW good to see you today.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 7, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I want to see that.
> 
> BTW good to see you today.


Good to see you too. Thanks for taking my mural tour around the building. Have you thought about doing a talk or walk about the history of squatting and short life in Brixton?


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 7, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Good to see you too. Thanks for taking my mural tour around the building. Have you thought about doing a talk or walk about the history of squatting and short life in Brixton?



It was a pleasure.

I saw you outside the Mansions with the mural tour so thought why not let the mural tour see the Mansions as well.

The impromptu talk of the history of Short Life housing and Carlton Mansions I gave them seemed to go down well. Surprised myself I could do that. 

It did buck my spirits up. Especially now the Council have issued a warrant on the Mansions. They were all genuinely interested in what I had to say. All the crap I have been through the past year can make one rather cynical.

So its good to relate that history to people who are interested. Its also something that is not that much known about. When Lambeth Archives have finished cataloguing the Coop and Short Life housing archives maybe they can put some of the stuff on show. I would be interested in talking about it.


----------



## Manter (Sep 7, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> As Manter says it was usually division between men and women. Where I grew up in the docklands of Plymouth this was normal. The fishwives went into carpeted section on the other side were the husbands in the public bar.
> 
> Didn’t stop the fishwives drinking. They used to drink bottles of barley wine.Which looked small but were very strong  Or they drank halves of a pint. Was not considered right for a woman to drink pints. .
> 
> ...


I remember my gran talking about pubs like that- she came over here at about 12 and they lived on the docks in London, and her mum used to send her to get her dad's pay packet of a Friday night before he drank it all- she used to meet him at the dock gate, and told us a story about one day when she was late and had to go to the pub and got shouted at by the barman as she went into the taproom.  But she got the money 

The partitions were common across different pubs with different backgrounds- some separated classes, or occupations, some men and women etc- there is rich tradition of different groups using the pub as their front room (when houses were over crowded or not properly heated)- and the different set ups of the pubs reflect whatever was happening locally.  Near my parents' there is a pub that still has a public order notice saying that people will be fined for swearing in the lounge and public bar, and that ladies were not allowed in the taproom.  That was (and to an extent still is) an agricultural area


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## Miss-Shelf (Sep 7, 2014)

Manter said:


> there is rich tradition of different groups using the pub as their front room (when houses were over crowded or not properly heated)-


  many still do or will have to do as housing gets squeezed


----------



## buscador (Sep 7, 2014)

The Commercial used to charge different prices in the public and saloon bars, about 5p a pint iirc. There was a very different crowd in each bar and they really didn't mix at all. When they removed the partition, for a long time people still entered by the door they'd always used. I can only think of one woman who drank regularly in the public bar, whereas the saloon bar always had at least one old lady sitting on her own drinking a bottle of stout. 

Back then the Snug in the Half Moon still had the vestiges of the screens at the bar, although the side entrance was not open. Unfortunately the pub generally, while nodding to the convention that the saloon bar was more salubrious than the public bar (ooh, carpet!) was so grubby that we once, while deciding that we were too scuzzy, covered in paint and other decorating-related detritus, chose to drink in the public bar and still had to sit on newspapers because the furniture was even filthier than us.


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## buscador (Sep 7, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> many still do or will have to do as housing gets squeezed



TBH I'd rather meet people in the pub so I don't have to tidy up the flat or do any extra washing-up afterwards.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Not strictly Brixton but is anyone feeling like there are a lot more spiders than usual this year?


There should be.  I've been letting hundreds looise in your back garden every night.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 7, 2014)

shifting gears said:


> I'll make of it exactly what it is, if anyone wants to make a mealy mouthed defence of it then will the usual suspects please step on up - Brixton has been homogenised, diluted, and is becoming a safe haven for the white middle class. And it fucking sucks.


Well said. New entertainment/leisure in central Brixton appears to be edging toward an ethnic and class homogeneity that it hasn't experienced for at least 60 years. Housing....well,  I'd love to see a breakdown of tenure for Brixton, cross-referenced to ethnicity.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 8, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Housing....well,  I'd love to see a breakdown of tenure for Brixton, cross-referenced to ethnicity.



2011 Census was good in this respect.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> 2011 census is good in this respect.


Yes, but already three years "out of date", and not as rigourously policed as even 2001 was. I shouldn't complain, but it's always annoying when methodologies change.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 8, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yes, but already three years "out of date", and not as rigourously policed as even 2001 was. I shouldn't complain, but it's always annoying when methodologies change.



Still interesting: notably the sharp decline in the white British and Caribbean populations of Lambeth


----------



## boohoo (Sep 8, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> It was a pleasure.
> 
> I saw you outside the Mansions with the mural tour so thought why not let the mural tour see the Mansions as well.
> 
> ...



Perhaps you could do a talk for next years archives day.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 8, 2014)

Lidl Brixton has opened a French fine wine section. Up to £25.99 (!) for a bottle of Bordeaux.


----------



## T & P (Sep 8, 2014)

Even Lidl is being gentrified


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2014)

T & P said:


> Even Lidl is being gentrified


I like their new advert. I like Lidl too. And Iceland. But the Electric Ave street markets are best


----------



## leanderman (Sep 8, 2014)

T & P said:


> Even Lidl is being gentrified



It's a rather curious national promotion - though no doubt to send a signal to 'middle-class' shoppers. 

The expensive wines in the range are basically the same price as elsewhere.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> It's a rather curious national promotion - though no doubt to send a signal to 'middle-class' shoppers.
> 
> The expensive wines in the range are basically the same price as elsewhere.


As long as the keep doing their random weekly promotions every trip remains a voyage of discovery. I found myself tempted to buy this utterly useless (for me) item this week. But you never know when you might want to draw a blue cross on a log though.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2014)

Seen in the Albert loo. It amused me.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 8, 2014)

editor said:


> As long as the keep doing their random weekly promotions every trip remains a voyage of discovery. I found myself tempted to buy this utterly useless (for me) item this week. But you never know when you might want to draw a blue cross on a log though.



I find the advert as annoying as peter andre's effort on behalf of iceland but for different reasons.
people who know speak highly of lidls inflatable kayak btw





e2a i bought a roach pole from lidl but didnt enjoy catching fish so passed it on to an itinerant hippy.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 8, 2014)

T & P said:


> As a foreigner, I must say pub partitions have always seemed such a weird concept... even divisive, if it resulted different parts of a community being kept apart from each other.
> 
> I guess I could google it up, but what was their purpose? Creating separate areas for regulars vs visitors? Blokes vs families? Middle vs working classes?


What about those small areas partitioned in the Victorian Gin Palaces  - really small private place with opaque glass windows on the bar - for confidential conversation, doing business, perhaps for 'courting' or in less salubrious establishments no doubt prostitution. 

But a lot of it was about creating the kind of pleasant sittingrooms that people lacked at home. The working class has a tradition of not entertaining at home because the public house was so much nicer it meant you could hide your squalid home, and keep your family life private.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2014)

The 'super' Moon from Brixton.


----------



## T & P (Sep 8, 2014)

editor said:


> The 'super' Moon from Brixton.
> 
> View attachment 60786


Is that your own pic? Very nice! Have you got fuck-off big tele lens or something?


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2014)

T & P said:


> Is that your own pic? Very nice! Have you got fuck-off big tele lens or something?


Cheers. I took it handheld with a fairly average 28mm-300mm zoom on my Olympus OM EM-1 and zoomed in a fair bit.

I had to massively underexpose (-4 and -5 EV) to get the shot. Here's another.


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## T & P (Sep 8, 2014)

And that is why no mobile phone will ever replace proper cameras- at least not for such shots.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 8, 2014)

editor said:


> As long as the keep doing their random weekly promotions every trip remains a voyage of discovery. I found myself tempted to buy this utterly useless (for me) item this week. But you never know when you might want to draw a blue cross on a log though.
> 
> View attachment 60760



Lidl do bargains. Just got some decent lycra cycling clothes from Lidl very cheap.


----------



## uk benzo (Sep 8, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> I find the advert as annoying as peter andre's effort on behalf of iceland but for different reasons.
> people who know speak highly of lidls inflatable kayak btw
> 
> 
> ...



I find myself buying the lidl bike speedometer every time I see it on offer (£5). And without fail, the cable that connects the speedo to the wheel sensor snaps after a week.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 8, 2014)

editor said:


> As long as the keep doing their random weekly promotions every trip remains a voyage of discovery. I found myself tempted to buy this utterly useless (for me) item this week. But you never know when you might want to draw a blue cross on a log though.
> 
> The bargain aisle is amazing
> View attachment 60760





uk benzo said:


> I find myself buying the lidl bike speedometer every time I see it on offer (£5). And without fail, the cable that connects the speedo to the wheel sensor snaps after a week.



Hope should always trump experience


----------



## teuchter (Sep 9, 2014)

Lidl have got a good racket going with their weekly promotions - stick a load of stuff there that you had no intention of buying until you saw it; therefore you've not got no comparison for whether it's actually a "bargain" or not, but you think it's Lidl so must be a bargain and you'd better get it there and then because it won't be there next week and then you get home and find out you could have bought it online for the same or better price and actually you didn't really need it anyway


----------



## nagapie (Sep 9, 2014)

I need a door-size piece of wood. Where in Brixton will advise me on the cheapest, best option in terms of suitability and deliver to my house?


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I need a door-size piece of wood. Where in Brixton will advise me on the cheapest, best option in terms of suitability and deliver to my house?


There's loads of doors being lobbed into the skips outside Southwyck House right now. They're perfectly good doors too.


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## Manter (Sep 9, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I need a door-size piece of wood. Where in Brixton will advise me on the cheapest, best option in terms of suitability and deliver to my house?


If you need an actual door, Direct Doors are good. Not local, but most of the local places charge for delivery, or won't say when they'll deliver so you're stuck in the house for three days. 

If it's wood you need try acre lane timber, though they sometimes won't take small orders. I got some planks off eBay in the end


----------



## Manter (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> There's loads of doors being lobbed into the skips outside Southwyck House right now. They're perfectly good doors too.


Very unlikely to fit in nagapie's house though. Even if she could find a way of getting a door out of a skip and home with a baby and a small boy... Pushchairs are useful for carrying stuff, but there are limits.


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## T & P (Sep 9, 2014)

Alternatively, hardware stores such as B&Q often sell offcut wood pieces of all sizes and types for very little, as they would be binned otherwise. You could try the B&Q in West Norwood. Not sure if you'd be let on the bus with it though.


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## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I need a door-size piece of wood. Where in Brixton will advise me on the cheapest, best option in terms of suitability and deliver to my house?


What for? Any particular type of wood? Is it for a table? Does it need to be new? Questions, questions.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> What for? Any particular type of wood? Is it for a table? Does it need to be new? Questions, questions.



It needs to be able to support 10kg, it needs to be door-size. That's about it. It doesn't need to be new but needs to be relatively in good nick as don't want to be getting splinters from it.


----------



## Smick (Sep 10, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I need a door-size piece of wood. Where in Brixton will advise me on the cheapest, best option in terms of suitability and deliver to my house?



https://www.streetlife.com/conversation/149lf2bf3mtcz/
if it is a for door sized piece of wood and not a door.


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## nagapie (Sep 10, 2014)

Smick said:


> https://www.streetlife.com/conversation/149lf2bf3mtcz/
> if it is a for door sized piece of wood and not a door.



Thanks, will check this out after the school run.


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## nagapie (Sep 10, 2014)

T & P said:


> Alternatively, hardware stores such as B&Q often sell offcut wood pieces of all sizes and types for very little, as they would be binned otherwise. You could try the B&Q in West Norwood. Not sure if you'd be let on the bus with it though.



Might try this and get a cab home as I'm on my way to Tulse  Hill shortly.


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## Smick (Sep 10, 2014)

I don't think the West Norwood does word cutting. We've had to go to Battersea in the past for it.

I found Acre Lane wood to be really decent. I was only buying two railway sleepers.


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## trabuquera (Sep 10, 2014)

Acre Lane Timber merchants


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## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

A few pics from around town: 

















http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/09/meat-preach-and-deep-mud-brixton-street-snapshots-september-2014/


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 10, 2014)

Manter said:


> Very unlikely to fit in nagapie's house though. Even if she could find a way of getting a door out of a skip and home with a baby and a small boy... Pushchairs are useful for carrying stuff, but there are limits.


Perhaps use a van or car.


----------



## trabuquera (Sep 10, 2014)

Absolutely everything you hate about the incomers, crystallised into a single page of wittering ***kery:

http://blog.movebubble.com/2014/09/all-about-brixton-london/

Just reading the first paragraph nearly gave me an aneurysm.

HOWEVER: there is one fantastic old pic at the very bottom of the page showing the Ritzy as it used to be (from the movie titles looks to be about 1982?83?ish)


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 10, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Absolutely everything you hate about the incomers, crystallised into a single page of wittering ***kery:
> 
> http://blog.movebubble.com/2014/09/all-about-brixton-london/
> 
> ...




Slip on your brogues and lets get gentrified.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Absolutely everything you hate about the incomers, crystallised into a single page of wittering ***kery:
> 
> http://blog.movebubble.com/2014/09/all-about-brixton-london/
> 
> ...



For me it is more a crystalisation of everything I dislike about bloggers.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Absolutely everything you hate about the incomers, crystallised into a single page of wittering ***kery:





> Since the 1990s, life in Brixton has improved with the return of the middle-class who have brought money and business into the area.


Thank heavens for the middle classes improving everything for us all!


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

eme  has a couple of her splendid abstract photos in the window of Studio 73 in Granville Arcade/Vl'aaage, if you're drifting past.


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## Manter (Sep 10, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Perhaps use a van or car.


<<considers facetious point about assuming everyone has access to a car somehow linking it to gentrification>>

<<decides really cba>>


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Sep 10, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Absolutely everything you hate about the incomers, crystallised into a single page of wittering ***kery:
> 
> http://blog.movebubble.com/2014/09/all-about-brixton-london/
> 
> ...



This almost feels designed to send this board into meltdown. It is also an utter load of objectionable bullshit. 
And has a picture of my house illustrating the article.


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Sep 10, 2014)

“Brixton London joins the likes of Notting Hill and Peckham as being an area of London that was best avoided in the 1980s but that has now received a facelift and an influx of middle-class folk.”

Lovely racist and classist undertones in that opening sentence.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 10, 2014)

"Thankfully are still signs of the African-Caribbean residents"

it's well written, too.


----------



## BoxRoom (Sep 10, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> Absolutely everything you hate about the incomers, crystallised into a single page of wittering ***kery:
> 
> http://blog.movebubble.com/2014/09/all-about-brixton-london/
> 
> ...


Just reading that gentrified me. I can feel a beard coming on.
I could murder a cocktail...


----------



## T & P (Sep 10, 2014)

I wouldn't be surprised if the author of that article is an U75 lurker


----------



## T & P (Sep 10, 2014)

Manter said:


> <<considers facetious point about assuming everyone has access to a car somehow linking it to gentrification>>
> 
> <<decides really cba>>


Zip cars & vans make motor vehicles accessible to most folk, to be fair


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

T & P said:


> Zip cars & vans make motor vehicles accessible to most folk, to be fair


And any _real _Larndaner would know a man who knows a man who knows a man who has a van.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 10, 2014)

Peanut Monkey said:


> “Brixton London joins the likes of Notting Hill and Peckham as being an area of London that was best avoided in the 1980s but that has now received a facelift and an influx of middle-class folk.”
> 
> Lovely racist and classist undertones in that opening sentence.



It hasn't had a facelift or an influx of middle-class folk  -the nice looking buildings have been there for ages and there has always been a fair amount of middle-class people.


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 10, 2014)

"Since the 1990s, life in Brixton has improved with the return of the middle-class who have brought money and business into the area".

This BS is riling me up. 
So us who have always lived round these parts were saved by an influx of the middle class? What about all the good folk who were already here and worked hard to make Brixton a special place?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 10, 2014)

At the bottom of the article it says:
_No comments - please add yours
_
I'm just saying, like.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> "Since the 1990s, life in Brixton has improved with the return of the middle-class who have brought money and business into the area".
> 
> This BS is riling me up.
> So us who have always lived round these parts were saved by an influx of the middle class? What about all the good folk who were already here and worked hard to make Brixton a special place?


It was already special enough for me before the champagne and cocktail bars arrived and the long term squatters were evicted.


----------



## aussw9 (Sep 10, 2014)

Seriously, what the fuck?

The author has to be trolling


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> Seriously, what the fuck?
> 
> The author has to be trolling


Really? Why should Urban be the only place in the world where people actually believe what they are saying when they trot out sweeping generalisations and lazy stereotypes as fact on a daily basis?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Really? Why should Urban be the only place in the world where people actually believe what they are saying when they trot out sweeping generalisations and lazy stereotypes as fact on a daily basis?


----------



## aussw9 (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Really? Why should Urban be the only place in the world where people actually believe what they are saying when they trot out sweeping generalisations and lazy stereotypes as fact on a daily basis?



pure disbelief at the contents of the blog leave me with no reason to believe otherwise.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

Sad to see this fine old building now bereft of its lifelong tenants.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

editor said:


>



Oh. Did I get it wrong again? Damn.
Please keep following me about with these useful reminders and I'll be sure to post an opinion which is both on topic and on message one of these days.
Cheers.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

aussw9 said:


> pure disbelief at the contents of the blog leave me with no reason to believe otherwise.


Fair enough. Perhaps I have become somewhat numb to that feeling of disbelief!


----------



## Manter (Sep 10, 2014)

T & P said:


> Zip cars & vans make motor vehicles accessible to most folk, to be fair


All true. But why be rational when I could be making A Point?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Oh. Did I get it wrong again? Damn.
> Please keep following me about with these useful reminders and I'll be sure to post an opinion which is both on topic and on message one of these days.
> Cheers.


I'd just prefer it if you missed out the little digs, and posted up about things happening around Brixton. Please.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

Did anyone notice that there was a whole gaggle of religious types around the tube station today?
There was a load hanging out a booklet in a language I didn't recognise. Any ideas?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

editor said:


> I'd just prefer it if you missed out the little digs, and posted up about things happening around Brixton. Please.


I meant it as fair comment. The article is laughably lazy and full of ignorant stereotypes. But the idea that such opinions can only be held by trolls is bunkum. Urban is a hotbed of passionately lazy stereotyping and misinformation.

If you don't agree with my opinion, just say so and say why. Or ignore it. No need to follow me about with juvenile pictures and insults. We disagree on stuff - get over it.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Water Lane danger hoarding update: meeting Lambeth's enforcement (sic) chief there on Wednesday to be told why the hoarding cannot be removed!



Met the council's enforcement chief and councillor Mary Atkins today. 

They can't find an owner to serve notice on.

Removing the hoarding would invite fly-tipping and create a dangerous drop.

And repositioning it would be too costly.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2014)

Back on topic, look how different the Dogstar looked ten years ago. I'm having trouble recognising it.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Met the council's enforcement chief and councillor Mary Atkins today.
> 
> They can't find an owner to serve notice on.
> 
> ...



If they can't find anyone to serve a notice on and it's an eyesore/dangerous why can't the council seize the land?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> If they can't find anyone to serve a notice on and it's an eyesore/dangerous why can't the council seize the land?



Someone must own it. One owner went bust.

But, you are right, all such sites should be seized, where not developed within, say, three years.


----------



## brixtonblade (Sep 10, 2014)

Where is danger hoarding?  Can't picture it.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 10, 2014)

The money from selling it could pay for our community fireworks for many a year to come! Unless Lambeth managed to sell it to the lowest bidder or even pay someone to take it off their hands


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

brixtonblade said:


> Where is danger hoarding?  Can't picture it.



Roughly opposite Mango, as was.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 10, 2014)

brixtonblade said:


> Where is danger hoarding?  Can't picture it.


https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...m2!3m1!1s0x4876046aad3265e7:0xf5de9ec926cfc0c


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

Crispy said:


> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Leander Rd, Brixton, London SW2 2ND/@51.4553293,-0.115236,3a,75y,159.44h,78.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOKZoNNGerlYFfIr0WL6c_Q!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x4876046aad3265e7:0xf5de9ec926cfc0c



Brilliant. Technically, it's not a danger because 1.2m of pavement remains


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 10, 2014)

Manter said:


> <<considers facetious point about assuming everyone has access to a car somehow linking it to gentrification>>
> 
> <<decides really cba>>



What does this post mean?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Met the council's enforcement chief and councillor Mary Atkins today.
> 
> They can't find an owner to serve notice on.
> 
> ...



How can they not find anyone to serve notice on?

From land regsitry:

Title Number : TGL220981
Address of Property : 22A Brixton Water Lane, London (SW2 1PB)
Price Stated : £82,500
Registered Owner(s) : ANTIC PROPERTIES LIMITED (Co. Regn. No. 07040462) of
Jute House, 1 Valmar Walk, London SE5 9NW.

Companies house shows it is in liquidation and registered address now KPMG
KPMG LLP 
10TH FLOOR DUKES KEEP MARSH LANE 
SOUTHAMPTON 
HAMPSHIRE 
SO14 3EX

Lambeth can do the works to move it off the pavement and attach a charge against the property which will be payable by the purchaser. I've paid similar before for 6yrs of scaffolding on an abandoned house.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> How can they not find anyone to serve notice on?
> 
> From land regsitry:
> 
> ...



Apparently not.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Apparently not.


Apparently not what?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Apparently not what?



Apparently they can't track down the owner - and serve a notice.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> And any _real _Larndaner would know a man who knows a man who knows a man who has a van.


Don't go Sarf of the Thames Guvnor.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Apparently they can't track down the owner - and serve a notice.


There must be a reason?
PM me your email address and I'll email you the Title Register


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 10, 2014)

I'd forgotten the Ritzy looked like that.  I remember going to a few women only / lesbian nights there - film, comedy, bands.

Remember too they did a benefit preview there for L&G Pride in late 80s they were always an interesting supportive bunch.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Don't go Sarf of the Thames Guvnor.


Only if he's an ex cab driver!


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Only if he's an ex cab driver!


That's what i meant maaaate,Do keep up please


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> There must be a reason?
> PM me your email address and I'll email you the Title Register



Thanks. 

I'm pretty sure Antic still has it - and have passed the enforcement officer an email showing this.

The 'enforcer' claims he will get the new owner's details - and serve notice.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Antic still has it - and have passed the enforcement officer an email showing this.
> 
> The 'enforcer' claims he will get the new owner's details - and serve notice.


OK - sent.

Regarding the costs, this may be out of date info, but I think some copanies do the work at no charge to the council and recover a higher cost, including rental and interest, through the charge being discharged. I had to pay £6,000 for a front only two storey scaffold 10 years ago. I was so gutted that I refused to give it back. I still have it - mainly only used as very sturdy DJ podiums since!


----------



## leanderman (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> OK - sent.
> 
> Regarding the costs, this may be out of date info, but I think some copanies do the work at no charge to the council and recover a higher cost, including rental and interest, through the charge being discharged. I had to pay £6,000 for a front only two storey scaffold 10 years ago. I was so gutted that I refused to give it back. I still have it - mainly only used as very sturdy DJ podiums since!



They've also dodged £3,000 in hoarding fees and left us with a wrecked pavement.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Urban is a hotbed of passionately lazy stereotyping and misinformation.
> .



I find it useful and informative over the years I have been on it. 

At times its been a lifeline for me. 

Its one of the things that Brixton would be less without.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 10, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I'd forgotten the Ritzy looked like that.  I remember going to a few women only / lesbian nights there - film, comedy, bands.
> 
> Remember too they did a benefit preview there for L&G Pride in late 80s they were always an interesting supportive bunch.



I saw White Dog. Its a good film. 

I miss the original entrance.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 10, 2014)

editor said:


> Thank heavens for the middle classes improving everything for us all!





T & P said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the author of that article is an U75 lurker


looks like they might be because the article has now been edited and now does not credit the middle classes with improving our lot, they now give that honour to *gentrification
http://blog.movebubble.com/2014/09/all-about-brixton-london/*


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I find it useful and informative over the years I have been on it.
> 
> At times its been a lifeline for me.
> 
> Its one of the things that Brixton would be less without.


Absolutely. But one does not preclude the other.
The whole internet is both brilliant and horrendous at the same time and I cannot imagine, even recall, being without it.


----------



## brixtonblade (Sep 10, 2014)

Ah - now youve posted the picture I know where you mean.  That's where there used to be a little haridressers I think.  The boarding has been up ages.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Absolutely. But one does not preclude the other.
> The whole internet is both brilliant and horrendous at the same time and I cannot imagine, even recall, being without it.



Not what I was saying. I was disagreeing with your comment that Urban is a:



> is a hotbed of passionately lazy stereotyping and misinformation.



You are entitled to think that some posters are prone to lazy stereotyping and misinforming. What I am disagreeing with is that Urban itself is the cause of it. There is a difference.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 10, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I saw White Dog. Its a good film.
> 
> I miss the original entrance.


I saw it as well (this from a person who goes to see a film at the cinema about once every five years) a friend who was studying psychology and was from a very rich family came to Brixton and met me to see it,it was a good film (people training dogs to be racist).We went to see a jazz band at the New Queens afterwards it opened her eyes to the fact that Brixton wasn't anything like the dangerous place she had previously thought.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 10, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Not what I was saying. I was disagreeing with your comment that Urban is a:
> 
> 
> 
> You are entitled to think that some posters are prone to lazy stereotyping and misinforming. What I am disagreeing with is that Urban itself is the cause of it. There is a difference.


Once again we agree: there is a difference. Your misunderstanding is to equate a hotbed with being a cause of a process. It is no more than the conducive environment which, intentionally or not, encourages the process to develop.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Once again we agree: there is a difference. Your misunderstanding is to equate a hotbed with being a cause of a process. It is no more than the conducive environment which, intentionally or not, encourages the process to develop.



You know what I mean. I may not always express myself that well. 

To make it clearer for you. I do not think Urban is a "conducive environment" to lazy stereotyping and misinformation. 

Its individual posters who are ( depending on your point of view) liable to lazy stereotyping.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 11, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> You know what I mean. I may not always express myself that well.
> 
> To make it clearer for you. I do not think Urban is a "conducive environment" to lazy stereotyping and misinformation.
> 
> Its individual posters who are ( depending on your point of view) liable to lazy stereotyping.


Fair enough. I think it is more complex than a few individual posters so I guess on that point we do disagree.  (Worth adding that my experience of Urban, and therefore my observations, is largely confined to this forum.)


----------



## teuchter (Sep 11, 2014)

There are certain aspects of urban that are conducive to lazy stereotyping, and certain aspects that are exactly the opposite. It depends on the subject matter and who is being stereotyped.


----------



## oryx (Sep 11, 2014)

I've just had a look at the rest of the movebubble site (to see if it has any corking quotes about where I live *) and found this gem of misinformation:



> Like Peckham, it wasn’t that long ago that Brixton was only known for drugs and gun crime, but after a process of gentrification starting in the 1990s, it’s now associated with Caribbean culture, cool food stalls, buzzing nightlife and a fantastic cinema.



*apart from ubercool Peckham and Greenwich, SE London doesn't seem to be on their radar. I like it that way, I really do.......


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2014)

oryx said:


> I've just had a look at the rest of the movebubble site (to see if it has any corking quotes about where I live *) and found this gem of misinformation:
> 
> 
> 
> *apart from ubercool Peckham and Greenwich, SE London doesn't seem to be on their radar. I like it that way, I really do.......





> it wasn’t that long ago that Brixton was only known for drugs and gun crime


Actually speechless. I'll stop now otherwise it'll just be an expletive laden rant against ignorant fuckwits.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Sep 11, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> You know what I mean. I may not always express myself that well.
> 
> To make it clearer for you. I do not think Urban is a "conducive environment" to lazy stereotyping and misinformation.
> 
> Its individual posters who are ( depending on your point of view) liable to lazy stereotyping.



You express yourself very well, your style is different to mine; he is fucking with you the way he fucks with others.

Had to adjust my privacy settings to stop receiving emails about threads that took my interest, then i thought just have a quick look, curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought it back.

Otherwise;

When the Bubble article mentions "crime" they mean primarily black people and the poor white working class. The new paradigm is not content with setting one against another they want us all out. This is not just social/race/class cleansing this is about mass segregation.

Do you need an estate agent to tell you that?

You can see it, (if you want to),  in housing, employment, the benefits system, policing and so much more.
I see more beggars on the streets in Brixton recently, do you see them also?

I prefer to leave on a positive note;

This is for people fighting for a living wage;


This is for the unemployed;


----------



## Smick (Sep 11, 2014)

Does anyone have a universal diagnostic computer for a car that they might reset a fault code for me?

I know what the issue is and it isn't a big deal, but the engine light is annoying me.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 11, 2014)

Is there still a pub near the "V" of Pulross Road and Ferndale Road? Used to be a fairly quiet place but always had potential I felt with the right person running it?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 11, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Is there still a pub near the "V" of Pulross Road and Ferndale Road? Used to be a fairly quiet place but always had potential I felt with the right person running it?


The Queen? Closed, demolished, flats built.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 11, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Is there still a pub near the "V" of Pulross Road and Ferndale Road? Used to be a fairly quiet place but always had potential I felt with the right person running it?


Blimey. You really have been away a while!


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 11, 2014)

I popped into Jeans corner to get some strides, sadly the owner confirmed that after 31 years in Brixton he is moving on.His landlord has upped the rent which has priced them out. They will be closing in november and moving to Saint Reatham.
The former Buzz lighting on Acre lane looks like it will be opening again soon as a decorating/paint shop.
Whilst sitting in Sams cafe i noticed the Restaurant on the corner of Solon road has taken down the signage above the shop to reveal a very old faded red frontage,editor may want to get a snap of this for his collection of past and present features.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> . Urban is a hotbed of passionately lazy stereotyping...


yer - you and your stereotype of mummies with buggies!!!


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I popped into Jeans corner to get some strides, sadly the owner confirmed that after 31 years in Brixton he is moving on.His landlord has upped the rent which has priced them out. They will be closing in november and moving to Saint Reatham.
> The former Buzz lighting on Acre lane looks like it will be opening again soon as a decorating/paint shop.
> Whilst sitting in Sams cafe i noticed the Restaurant on the corner of Solon road has taken down the signage above the shop to reveal a very old faded red frontage,editor may want to get a snap of this for his collection of past and present features.



I noticed a lot of empty shops outside of Brixton - the very quiet increase in rents moving retailers out of the area.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I popped into Jeans corner to get some strides, sadly the owner confirmed that after 31 years in Brixton he is moving on.His landlord has upped the rent which has priced them out.


We can expect a lot more of that too as the well heeled moneyed types take over. 


SarfLondoner said:


> Whilst sitting in Sams cafe i noticed the Restaurant on the corner of Solon road has taken down the signage above the shop to reveal a very old faded red frontage,editor may want to get a snap of this for his collection of past and present features.


Oooh! I shall take a look tomorrow!


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> I noticed a lot of empty shops outside of Brixton - the very quiet increase in rents moving retailers out of the area.


I really fear for Atlantic Road when Wahaca opens up.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 11, 2014)

editor said:


> I really fear for Atlantic Road when Wahaca opens up.


I was chatting to a lady in Brixton wholefoods this morning and she was saying the same thing. Its not looking good for some of the long standing traders on that stretch.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I was chatting to a lady in Brixton wholefoods this morning and she was saying the same thing. Its not looking good for some of the long standing traders on that stretch.


I predict they're mainly going to be replaced by depressing rows of Camden/Shoreditch-esque hipster/mainstream rubbish all catering to nu-Brixton tastes and wallets.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> I noticed a lot of empty shops outside of Brixton - the very quiet increase in rents moving retailers out of the area.


The speed of change surprises me,there one minute gone the next sometimes without any warning.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 11, 2014)

editor said:


> I predict they're mainly going to be replaced by depressing rows of Camden/Shoreditch-esque hipster/mainstream rubbish all catering to nu-Brixton tastes and wallets.


What makes you think that?


----------



## trabuquera (Sep 11, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I saw White Dog. Its a good film.
> 
> I miss the original entrance.



Me too. Actually WHITE DOG + WOLFEN is a brilliant double bill: WD about racist dog-trainers, Wolfen is a weird scifi/thriller about werewolves with some sort of connection to the Native American workers who used to dominate high-steel construction work, iirc. A couple of very intelligent and subversive B movies with a lot of bite.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> The speed of change surprises me,there one minute gone the next sometimes without any warning.



My flat rent in the suburbs has gone up a £100 a month because that how much rents have jumped around here in the last year. Nowhere is safe!


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 11, 2014)

Crispy said:


> The Queen? Closed, demolished, flats built.


The Queen! There was no need to even ask I suppose. A better question might have been "how many flats did they manage to squash into the old Queen?"


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> My flat rent in the suburbs has gone up a £100 a month because that how much rents have jumped around here in the last year. Nowhere is safe!


I was reading an article about this, which suggested the London overground has played a big part in the increases too, hence zone 3 and upwards no longer being as affordable prior to its arrival.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> yer - you and your stereotype of mummies with buggies!!!



Muggies. They're everywhere. Taking over. 







Where did I put that draft letter to the councilor...


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 11, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> The Queen! There was no need to even ask I suppose. A better question might have been "how many flats did they manage to squash into the old Queen?"



http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...99741A695CC23D95A1A4DD72D039D&selectedIndex=0


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I was reading an article about this, which suggested the London overground has played a big part in the increases too, hence zone 3 and upwards no longer being as affordable prior to its arrival.



I'm ten to fifteen minute bus rides or ten minute walk down the hill to a train station so I'm in the middle of no-where. 

This is not to far from me - someone bought it for around 2 million recently and they are trying to rent it:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/34092878


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Muggies. They're everywhere. Taking over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Lucky she didn't have twins.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Muggies. They're everywhere. Taking over.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If we need to widen the pavements, we can just get your house knocked down and that'll make a bit more space for the super buggies!


----------



## Rushy (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> If we need to widen the pavements, we can just get your house knocked down and that'll make a bit more space for the super buggies!


It's only a matter of time...


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> I'm ten to fifteen minute bus rides or ten minute walk down the hill to a train station so I'm in the middle of no-where.
> 
> This is not to far from me - someone bought it for around 2 million recently and they are trying to rent it:
> 
> http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/34092878


It's all your fault.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 11, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Lucky she didn't have twins.


One could push?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> I'm ten to fifteen minute bus rides or ten minute walk down the hill to a train station so I'm in the middle of no-where.
> 
> This is not to far from me - someone bought it for around 2 million recently and they are trying to rent it:
> 
> http://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/34092878


Crikey. That's impressive, if rather dully renovated. It says "first marketed at £5,001pcm". Who on earth does that? Do they not understand why everything in out shops is 4.99 etc and not 5.01?

Quite possibly the strangest pricing I've seen in Brixton is this house for £1,100,950


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Crikey. That's impressive, if rather dully renovated. It says "first marketed at £5,001pcm". Who on earth does that? Do they not understand why everything in out shops is 4.99 etc and not 5.01?
> 
> Quite possibly the strangest pricing I've seen in Brixton is this house for £1,100,950



There use to be many large houses along this road built in the Victorian period to take in the great views and play on the interest in the Beulah Spa and then the Crystal Palace. The ominbus served from Crown Point and the trains came into the Jolly Sailor Station at South Norwood from around the 1840s.  
Many of the houses disappeared in the 1960s hence lots of 60s and 70s private housing estates. 

My favourite Crystal Palace house is this:





I think it went for a few million - it really is a stunner if that's the kind of architecture you like.

I not sure what the odd pricing on the properties is about.


----------



## Manter (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Crikey. That's impressive, if rather dully renovated. It says "first marketed at £5,001pcm". Who on earth does that? Do they not understand why everything in out shops is 4.99 etc and not 5.01?
> 
> Quite possibly the strangest pricing I've seen in Brixton is this house for £1,100,950


That house, complete with hospital green walls, is described as 'well decorated'....


----------



## Rushy (Sep 11, 2014)

Manter said:


> That house, complete with hospital green walls, is described as 'well decorated'....


Well it has been on the market a while...


----------



## Rushy (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> There use to be many large houses along this road built in the Victorian period to take in the great views and play on the interest in the Beulah Spa and then the Crystal Palace. The ominbus served from Crown Point and the trains came into the Jolly Sailor Station at South Norwood from around the 1840s.
> Many of the houses disappeared in the 1960s hence lots of 60s and 70s private housing estates.
> 
> My favourite Crystal Palace house is this:
> ...


Is that on College Road  / Fountain Drive? I used to run past one just like it. Stunning.


----------



## Manter (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Well it has been on the market a while...


Surprised tbh. Dalberg is a nice road, central, and it's a big-ish house, albeit in a bit of a state. The price is ludicrous, but not sure it's any more ludicrous than many others. 

Wonder what is wrong with it....


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Is that on College Road  / Fountain Drive? I used to run past one just like it. Stunning.



It's on Church Road not too far from South Norwood Hill. Aukland road also has some fabulous detached houses - might need to take everyone on an explore Crystal Palace walk. 

I was just enjoying this bit of information on Crystal Palace, South Norwood...

http://partleton.co.uk/Benjamin1825b.html


----------



## Crispy (Sep 11, 2014)

Manter said:


> Surprised tbh. Dalberg is a nice road, central, and it's a big-ish house, albeit in a bit of a state. The price is ludicrous, but not sure it's any more ludicrous than many others.
> 
> Wonder what is wrong with it....


Judging by the floor plans, it was split into two flats. You've got a superflous bathroom and kitchen to dispose of if you want to use it as a house.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Is that on College Road  / Fountain Drive? I used to run past one just like it.


Granted it looks a bit like Herman Munsters gaff but running past it might be a bit OTT


----------



## Manter (Sep 11, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Judging by the floor plans, it was split into two flats. You've got a superflous bathroom and kitchen to dispose of if you want to use it as a house.


It needs lots of work generally-and it's just a kitchen to remove, really- more than one bathroom is a good thing!  it's got room to extend into the loft too, so surprised no one has taken it.


----------



## oryx (Sep 11, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> Granted it looks a bit like Herman Munsters gaff but running past it might be a bit OTT




Fantastic house - I guessed (wrongly) at Harold Road!


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

oryx said:


> Fantastic house - I guessed (wrongly) at Harold Road!



Nothing on Harold Road is that grand!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 11, 2014)

Manter said:


> It needs lots of work generally-and it's just a kitchen to remove, really- more than one bathroom is a good thing!  it's got room to extend into the loft too, so surprised no one has taken it.


It's already extended into the loft - that's the 2nd floor


----------



## Manter (Sep 11, 2014)

Crispy said:


> It's already extended into the loft - that's the 2nd floor


Sorry, on phone- I know someone who lives on that road and her house is three floors without having gone into the loft- assumed it was the same

E2a looked at it again- looks like that second floor is above bedroom 3, so it's got all the front of the loft- above bedroom 1 and 2 -to play with


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> My flat rent in the suburbs has gone up a £100 a month because that how much rents have jumped around here in the last year. Nowhere is safe!



oh shit.. sorry to hear that...


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2014)

Ruddy hell, Kaff surely is bustling at this time of night.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> oh shit.. sorry to hear that...



she wanted more initially. I'm not sure we will be able to stay here another year after that - not if the rents rise again. 

I didn't want the upheaval of moving again.


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> she wanted more initially. I'm not sure we will be able to stay here another year after that - not if the rents rise again.
> 
> I didn't want the upheaval of moving again.



don't know what to say really... it's shit.  I don't want you to move again either!


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> don't know what to say really... it's shit.  I don't want you to move again either!



it is the 7th place I've lived in over the last ten years - I enjoy being settled somewhere.


----------



## Kevs (Sep 11, 2014)

editor said:


> Ruddy hell, Kaff surely is bustling at this time of night.


Always is on a Thursday, they have three quid pints on.

Anyone know what the "laid bare" night is tonight at Brixton east? I can't find any detail on it beyond the Brixton buzz listing: http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/event/laid-bare-presents/?instance_id=74529


----------



## leanderman (Sep 11, 2014)

editor said:


> I really fear for Atlantic Road when Wahaca opens up.



Adds some colour


----------



## Ms T (Sep 11, 2014)

There's a new Wahaca opened near work.  It looks really nice on the inside.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 11, 2014)

boohoo said:


> http://partleton.co.uk/Benjamin1825b.html


el-ahrairah The other pages on this site have got some good photos- the first one has lots of Stockwell tube station photos through the ages (though the De menezes stuff is heavy) and the final page has lots about the Croydon canal.

http://partleton.co.uk/Benjamin1825.htm
http://partleton.co.uk/Benjamin1825c.html


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 11, 2014)

reading it now


----------



## superfly101 (Sep 12, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Whilst sitting in Sams cafe i noticed the Restaurant on the corner of Solon road has taken down the signage above the shop to reveal a very old faded red frontage,editor may want to get a snap of this for his collection of past and present features.



The demolition of the old petrol garage site - now storage yard for the timber merchants - has revealed a shabby looking industrial warehouse. There's faded lettering running across the top of it saying something like Company name Film and TV Studio Scenery/Prop hire?

What's that about?


----------



## technical (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> We can expect a lot more of that too as the well heeled moneyed types take over.



Sorry to jump back a couple of pages, but that's just a bit simplistic isn't it? Places change constantly - as the demographic changes its inevitable that the retail offer will change yes, but then there's the crisis that faces the high street (online shopping, the rise of the mega-chains, upward only rent reviews, changes to planning policy favouring housing, shorter leases) all of which have little to do with gentrification


----------



## Rushy (Sep 12, 2014)

If anyone found an unusually fat Samsung phone in Brindisa, 384, Craft, Dog Star or KFC last night please drop me a PM.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 12, 2014)

Rushy said:


> If anyone found an unusually fat Samsung phone in Brindisa, 384, Craft, Dog Star or KFC last night please drop me a PM.


Oh dear! Were you drunkled?  And KFC! Really?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 12, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Oh dear! Were you drunkled?  And KFC! Really?


To be fair, I might not have been to KFC but I can't think of any other plausible explanation for the carton on the kitchen floor.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

technical said:


> Sorry to jump back a couple of pages, but that's just a bit simplistic isn't it? Places change constantly - as the demographic changes its inevitable that the retail offer will change yes, but then there's the crisis that faces the high street (online shopping, the rise of the mega-chains, upward only rent reviews, changes to planning policy favouring housing, shorter leases) all of which have little to do with gentrification


But what's happening in this specific area has everything to do with gentrification. Firms like Brindisa and Wahaca are only now coming to Brixton because of the demographic changes and the increase in spending power that accompanies it.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

Rushy said:


> If anyone found an unusually fat Samsung phone in Brindisa, 384, Craft, Dog Star or KFC last night please drop me a PM.


I'll ask in the Dog later. 

Your selection of venues sounds like you ran out of money!


----------



## fortyplus (Sep 12, 2014)

superfly101 said:


> The demolition of the old petrol garage site - now storage yard for the timber merchants - has revealed a shabby looking industrial warehouse. There's faded lettering running across the top of it saying something like Company name Film and TV Studio Scenery/Prop hire?
> 
> What's that about?


The building was occupied by a company called Kimpton Walker, who were film and TV set builders. In the late 80s when we had a rented house in Balham we had a housemate who worked there as a clerical assistant


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> I predict they're mainly going to be replaced by depressing rows of Camden/Shoreditch-esque hipster/mainstream rubbish all catering to nu-Brixton tastes and wallets.



Careful now, you'll get called "classist" and get whined at by some of our more orally-flatulent posters.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> The speed of change surprises me,there one minute gone the next sometimes without any warning.



It's certainly been a feature of the last 5 years or so that "gentrification" (of shops and neighbourhoods) happens much faster than it used to, when it was more peicemeal. We *should* bear in mind that this latest phase of gentrification is more "engineered" (mostly through the promotion of the area by developers and their media friends) than those phases that preceded it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

technical said:


> Sorry to jump back a couple of pages, but that's just a bit simplistic isn't it? Places change constantly - as the demographic changes its inevitable that the retail offer will change yes, but then there's the crisis that faces the high street (online shopping, the rise of the mega-chains, upward only rent reviews, changes to planning policy favouring housing, shorter leases) all of which have little to do with gentrification



Depends how you look at it, really. Some of the shops that have gone, and those that will likely disappear, don't always do so because the products they sell suddenly become available online, or are cheaper elsewhere, they disappear because the landlord is well aware that in an area undergoing "gentrification", interest from retailers riding the gentrification wagon means rising rental prices and harder-to-renew leases.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> But what's happening in this specific area has everything to do with gentrification. Firms like Brindisa and Wahaca are only now coming to Brixton because of the demographic changes and the increase in spending power that accompanies it.



And, frankly, the increased rents (or the idea of rent increases) that outlets like Wahaca and Brindisa effectively activate. We've already seen this happen in Teh Villaaaaage, have we not?


----------



## elmpp (Sep 12, 2014)

Fucking giant yawn


----------



## urbanspaceman (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> _I predict they're mainly going to be replaced by depressing rows of Camden/Shoreditch-esque hipster/mainstream rubbish all catering to nu-Brixton tastes and wallets._



Specifically on Brixton Wholefoods: perhaps it's just me, but I find it actively unwelcoming and depressing. For the past twenty years, regular as clockwork, every three months or so I have bought about £100 of breakfast mix ingredients. Not once has anyone even said hello. The bearded man constantly tinkers with the contents of shelves, ignoring customers around him, making you feel as if you're getting in his way. The French lady will occasionally and selectively greet some particular individual effusively - I guess I'm just not in _le club de cool kids_. BW is certainly not cheap, and as far as I can see doesn't put much effort into the bolstering the advantage of small independent shops, acknowledging and building a loyal local client base. And they don't seem to do any kind of marketing or promotions, no matter how rudimentary.

I mostly shop at Holland and Barrett now: the prices are mostly cheaper, the shop is clean and uncluttered, and the young and friendly staff are helpful, and actually make eye contact.

Surely the changing demographic - that is affluent/foodie/fashionable, works greatly in BW's favour ?


----------



## boohoo (Sep 12, 2014)

elmpp said:


> Fucking giant yawn


you big tease


----------



## boohoo (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> orally-flatulent posters.


pot kettle black


----------



## leanderman (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's certainly been a feature of the last 5 years or so that "gentrification" (of shops and neighbourhoods) happens much faster than it used to, when it was more peicemeal. We *should* bear in mind that this latest phase of gentrification is more "engineered" (mostly through the promotion of the area by developers and their media friends) than those phases that preceded it.



I doubt there is much engineering going on.

It's mainly that wealthy types are being priced out of the areas they prefer to live in, because of the population boom. 

And the gentrification is quicker, because the pricing out is quicker.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 12, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I doubt there is much engineering going on.
> 
> It's mainly that wealthy types are being priced out of the areas they prefer to live in, because of the population boom.
> 
> And the gentrification is quicker, because the pricing out is quicker.



Leanderman - have you not learned by now that it is the fault of Brixton village?!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

boohoo said:


> pot kettle black



I note that you had to selectively-edit my post to be able to say that!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

elmpp said:


> Fucking giant yawn


If it's all so boring for you, when don't you just toddle along to some place you do find interesting?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I doubt there is much engineering going on.
> 
> It's mainly that wealthy types are being priced out of the areas they prefer to live in, because of the population boom.
> 
> And the gentrification is quicker, because the pricing out is quicker.



Every advert, every puff piece is "engineering". It "helps" your "wealthy types" decide where to go. You're a journo. You *know* how this shit works.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I note that you had to selectively-edit my post to be able to say that!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Leanderman - have you not learned by now that it is the fault of Brixton village?!



It isn't, you know! It's yours! 

More seriously though, if anyone is to blame locally, then the planners are, but their culpability is small compared to that of central government.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

elmpp said:


> Fucking giant yawn



Wow, so intreresting!


----------



## boohoo (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> It isn't, you know! It's yours!
> 
> More seriously though, if anyone is to blame locally, then the planners are, but their culpability is small compared to that of central government.



Second time I've been blamed for gentrification of Brixton. If only I could benefit from it...

Lack of controlling the private rented market, lack of new social housing and encouraging people on the other side of the world to buy new builds as investments are bigger factors. 

If the village and all of that space makers stuff hadn't happened, then I still think the process of change would have been fairly swiftish.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Second time I've been blamed for gentrification of Brixton. If only I could benefit from it...
> 
> Lack of controlling the private rented market, lack of new social housing and encouraging people on the other side of the world to buy new builds as investments are bigger factors.
> 
> If the village and all of that space makers stuff hadn't happened, then I still think the process of change would have been fairly swiftish.


Oh, it was going to happen sooner or later, but the Village sent out a loud message that resonated with the desires of developers, investors and young professionals.

Remember the Brixton Square advertising that showed an ethnically cleansed Brixton all happily shopping and eating in the lovely Village?


----------



## ash (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> Oh, it was going to happen sooner or later, but the Village sent out a loud message that resonated with the desires of developers, investors and young professionals.
> 
> Remember the Brixton Square advertising that showed an ethnically cleansed Brixton all happily shopping and eating in the lovely Village?


Ill advised use of 'ethnically cleansed' IMO considering Rwanda, Yugoslavia and the current shenanigans in the Middle East


----------



## leanderman (Sep 12, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Second time I've been blamed for gentrification of Brixton. If only I could benefit from it...
> 
> Lack of controlling the private rented market, lack of new social housing and encouraging people on the other side of the world to buy new builds as investments are bigger factors.
> 
> If the village and all of that space makers stuff hadn't happened, then I still think the process of change would have been fairly swiftish.



Exactly. It's happening across this city. 

Maybe, in 100 years, Wroclaw will be more desirable than London, the great population shift will reverse and houses will be cheap again.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

ash said:


> Ill advised use of 'ethnically cleansed' IMO considering Rwanda, Yugoslavia and the current shenanigans in the Middle East


Not sure how else you'd describe the all white Brixton represented in their advertising material. Would 'racially pure' be better for you?


----------



## boohoo (Sep 12, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Exactly. It's happening across this city.
> 
> Maybe, in 100 years, Wroclaw will be more desirable than London, the great population shift will reverse and houses will be cheap again.



My ancestors come from Wroclaw (when it was Breslau).


----------



## leanderman (Sep 12, 2014)

boohoo said:


> My ancestors come from Wroclaw.



Breslau


----------



## elmpp (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> Not sure how else you'd describe the all white Brixton represented in their advertising material. Would 'racially pure' be better for you?


You'll get over it one day.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

ash said:


> Ill advised use of 'ethnically cleansed' IMO considering Rwanda, Yugoslavia and the current shenanigans in the Middle East



To be fair, while it's "ill-advised" in comparison with what you mention, the effect of what is actually *social cleansing* will result, to a great degree, in "ethnic cleansing" outside of the estates and other social housing - there isn't a large enough BME "middle class" to dilute that effect.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Breslau



Bless you! have a tissue.


----------



## Smick (Sep 12, 2014)

ash said:


> Ill advised use of 'ethnically cleansed' IMO considering Rwanda, Yugoslavia and the current shenanigans in the Middle East


Nonsense!

There are varying scales of most negative behaviour. Just because some fucker is doing it in Africa to a greater extent doesn't mean that it's not happening elsewhere.

Oh, and you forgot Ukraine.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

elmpp said:


> You'll get over it one day.


It's not me coming over like a disruptive bore with insomnia. If you've nothing to add to a discussion, kindly keep your yawns to yourself.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Second time I've been blamed for gentrification of Brixton. If only I could benefit from it...



All the blame, and none of the profit. 



> Lack of controlling the private rented market, lack of new social housing and encouraging people on the other side of the world to buy new builds as investments are bigger factors.



Of course, the private rented market, in this area as with many others, was helped along by planning decisions that allowed conversions, on the basis of "better two than one", which was slightly short-term. As for the lack of control, that was on the cards from as soon as Labour instituted "fair rents" legislation, given that the Tory party, even then, was up to its' tits in _rentiers_. 



> If the village and all of that space makers stuff hadn't happened, then I still think the process of change would have been fairly swiftish.



I don't disagree, but I think that maybe it'd have had a different focus - perhaps a focus not so dependent on central Brixton being the latest must-visit dining/drinking/nightlife nexus.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

Smick said:


> Nonsense!
> 
> There are varying scales of most negative behaviour. Just because some fucker is doing it in Africa to a greater extent doesn't mean that it's not happening elsewhere.
> 
> Oh, and you forgot Ukraine.



Ukraine?

No, it's the onions...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Exactly. It's happening across this city.
> 
> Maybe, in 100 years, Wroclaw will be more desirable than London, the great population shift will reverse and houses will be cheap again.



Gentrification _is_ cyclical, at least in most "old" cities. In London it's been a cycle between suburb and centre. Jerry White goes into this in a reasonable amount of detail in his books about London's history.


----------



## elmpp (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> It's not me coming over like a disruptive bore with insomnia. If you've nothing to add to a discussion, kindly keep your yawns to yourself.


But you are coming over as the bore


----------



## Smick (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ukraine?
> 
> No, it's the onions...




Nah, I'm driving the cement truck. The crane driver is over there.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I don't disagree, but I think that maybe it'd have had a different focus - perhaps a focus not so dependent on central Brixton being the latest must-visit dining/drinking/nightlife nexus.



It might have reduced the night time activities and Brixton turning into the next Clapham (so quickly) if the village hadn't taken off.
 As I've mentioned before if a flat in the suburbs can increase by nearly 100k in a year with nothing to make it more appealing than it was a year ago, then the village is a tiny factor in the changes in Brixton.


----------



## ash (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> To be fair, while it's "ill-advised" in comparison with what you mention, the effect of what is actually *social cleansing* will result, to a great degree, in "ethnic cleansing" outside of the estates and other social housing - there isn't a large enough BME "middle class" to dilute that effect.


I agree that social or class cleansing might be more appropriate.  Brixton has always had a significant white population, never less than 50 %.  Did we call it ethnic cleansing when the Windrush generation turned up and the fact there was some white flight that occurred afterwards.	I just find this generalisation lazy and emotive. When I arrived in south London (1985) I met Londoners whose families were moving from clapham, brixton, tooting and the like to places like Thornton Heath to improve their lot.  Things have done a full circle but I'm sure they will again at some point.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Gentrification _is_ cyclical, at least in most "old" cities. In London it's been a cycle between suburb and centre. Jerry White goes into this in a reasonable amount of detail in his books about London's history.



I did a module of my masters with Jerry - very interesting. I hope he will give me a good mark for my essay 

Read H Dyos' book on Camberwell - fascinating stuff.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Gentrification _is_ cyclical, at least in most "old" cities. In London it's been a cycle between suburb and centre. Jerry White goes into this in a reasonable amount of detail in his books about London's history.



True, and it's easy to forget that London's population was falling until the 1980s. 


But the past is not necessarily a guide to the future.

Globalisation has changed everything. EU enlargement, Chinese and Russian money etc.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 12, 2014)

urbanspaceman said:


> Specifically on Brixton Wholefoods: perhaps it's just me, but I find it actively unwelcoming and depressing. For the past twenty years, regular as clockwork, every three months or so I have bought about £100 of breakfast mix ingredients. Not once has anyone even said hello. The bearded man constantly tinkers with the contents of shelves, ignoring customers around him, making you feel as if you're getting in his way. The French lady will occasionally and selectively greet some particular individual effusively - I guess I'm just not in _le club de cool kids_. BW is certainly not cheap, and as far as I can see doesn't put much effort into the bolstering the advantage of small independent shops, acknowledging and building a loyal local client base. And they don't seem to do any kind of marketing or promotions, no matter how rudimentary.
> 
> I mostly shop at Holland and Barrett now: the prices are mostly cheaper, the shop is clean and uncluttered, and the young and friendly staff are helpful, and actually make eye contact.
> 
> Surely the changing demographic - that is affluent/foodie/fashionable, works greatly in BW's favour ?



Totally agree. I've always found them really rude and unhelpful. Mr Shakes won't buy his vegan food or hippy soap from there since the day he asked some advice and was ignored.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 12, 2014)

Anyone know what happened on the corner of Atlantic Road / Brixton Road early evening? There was an ambulance and a small body under a silver sheet. Looked a bit nasty.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

ash said:


> I agree that social or class cleansing might be more appropriate.  Brixton has always had a significant white population, never less than 50 %.  Did we call it ethnic cleansing when the Windrush generation turned up and the fact there was some white flight that occurred afterwards.



I think you're misapprehending the meaning of "ethnic cleansing" a bit, as it's about the removal of minorities from a majority area, not the entire cleansing of a geographical area.  
That said, as I mentioned, it's not so much "cleansing" as a current that means that the BME elements of Brixton's population will, given the rising prices, be residualised to social housing, just as some elements of the working class in general are.



> I just find this generalisation lazy and emotive. When I arrived in south London (1985) I met Londoners whose families were moving from clapham, brixton, tooting and the like to places like Thornton Heath to improve their lot.  Things have done a full circle but I'm sure they will again at some point.



I too have known lots of BME people who move out to the 'burbs in the '80s and '90s (as well as a fuckload of other members of the working class). In my opinion there's a world of difference between choosing to move and taking advantage of market circumstances (as people were mostly doing back then), and being compelled to do so due to economic factors such as unaffordable rents and house purchase prices, AKA the market taking advantage of *them*.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

leanderman said:


> True, and it's easy to forget that London's population was falling until the 1980s.
> 
> 
> But the past is not necessarily a guide to the future.
> ...



Globalisation isn't anything new, and the changes it effects aren't, either. What the *are* is of greater scale and frequency.


----------



## ash (Sep 12, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> I think you're misapprehending the meaning of "ethnic cleansing" a bit, as it's about the removal of minorities from a majority area, not the entire cleansing of a geographical area.
> That said, as I mentioned, it's not so much "cleansing" as a current that means that the BME elements of Brixton's population will, given the rising prices, be residualised to social housing, just as some elements of the working class in general are.
> 
> 
> ...



I agree, however I did know people who thought, for example that Clapham was a shithole so moved to said places which were seen as leafy and better then the inner city.  Clapham for example has changed beyond recognition.  I used to live in Tooting and worked in Clapham, even in 1992 the only drinking venues I remember in the high street were the plough, Alexandra, railway and rose and crown (now that pub has changed to a polar opposite if ever there has been one) . The tube station was dead and the only offie had bars and a hatch so I can maybe see how people may have wanted to leave. Then we have the different shithole that resembles the strip on Ayia Napa ??!!


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> Totally agree. I've always found them really rude and unhelpful. Mr Shakes won't buy his vegan food or hippy soap from there since the day he asked some advice and was ignored.


Someone here once write a brilliant piece lampooning the staff there. Anyone remember it?


----------



## happyshopper (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> ... the desires of ... young professionals.



What about us old professionals?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

happyshopper said:


> What about us old professionals?


No one cares. It's a cruel world. Youth is wasted on the young etc. Mumble.


----------



## elmpp (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> No one cares. It's a cruel world. Youth is wasted on the young etc. Mumble.


Yawn.

Haha, only joking. Keep your pecker up


----------



## Dan U (Sep 12, 2014)

ash said:


> I agree, however I did know people who thought, for example that Clapham was a shithole so moved to said places which were seen as leafy and better then the inner city.  Clapham for example has changed beyond recognition.  I used to live in Tooting and worked in Clapham, even in 1992 the only drinking venues I remember in the high street were the plough, Alexandra, railway and rose and crown (now that pub has changed to a polar opposite if ever there has been one) . The tube station was dead and the only offie had bars and a hatch so I can maybe see how people may have wanted to leave. Then we have the different shithole that resembles the strip on Ayia Napa ??!!



There are flintstones theme pubs and shit loads of Russians flying in on chartered 747s in South London? 

Where, I want to go!


----------



## nagapie (Sep 12, 2014)

urbanspaceman said:


> Specifically on Brixton Wholefoods: perhaps it's just me, but I find it actively unwelcoming and depressing. For the past twenty years, regular as clockwork, every three months or so I have bought about £100 of breakfast mix ingredients. Not once has anyone even said hello. The bearded man constantly tinkers with the contents of shelves, ignoring customers around him, making you feel as if you're getting in his way. The French lady will occasionally and selectively greet some particular individual effusively - I guess I'm just not in _le club de cool kids_. BW is certainly not cheap, and as far as I can see doesn't put much effort into the bolstering the advantage of small independent shops, acknowledging and building a loyal local client base. And they don't seem to do any kind of marketing or promotions, no matter how rudimentary.
> 
> I mostly shop at Holland and Barrett now: the prices are mostly cheaper, the shop is clean and uncluttered, and the young and friendly staff are helpful, and actually make eye contact.
> 
> Surely the changing demographic - that is affluent/foodie/fashionable, works greatly in BW's favour ?



Nah, they are fine. Do they have to make you feel good about shopping there; they have stuff you want to buy and that's enough? Personally I don't find them grumpy, nor effusive, just normal, and have always wondered why some people think this. The fact that they are friendly to people they know is normal surely? It's a local co-op but you'd rather the money went out of Brixton to a big company like Holland and Barrett because they don't smile or chat, I can't understand that.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> Oh, it was going to happen sooner or later, but the Village sent out a loud message that resonated with the desires of developers, investors and young professionals.
> 
> Remember the Brixton Square advertising that showed an ethnically cleansed Brixton all happily shopping and eating in the lovely Village?



Yes. Lazy. But is it really as sinister as you like to make out? If it is, why not make as big a big deal about this dreary image? 
No - I'm not criticising The Albert. Or you. I'm saying bad / lazy / weak marketing is everywhere but it's not a smoking gun pointing to a sinister plot.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Sep 12, 2014)

An oasis of debauchery in an ocean of drug-fuelled excess.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 12, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Yes. Lazy. But is it really as sinister as you like to make out? If it is, why not make as big a big deal about this dreary image?
> No - I'm not criticising The Albert. Or you. I'm saying bad / lazy / weak marketing is everywhere but it's not a smoking gun pointing to a sinister plot.
> View attachment 60997


Sorry to have to confess, but I was born and raised in Bury St Edmunds (like Greene King) and this looks like a generic poster that would be equally at home in their 40+ pubs in their home town.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 13, 2014)

Interesting article:

http://londonist.com/2014/08/social-cleansing-and-gentrification-the-fightback.php


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 13, 2014)

nagapie said:


> When cocktails start costing £14, no amount of insta
> 
> 
> Nah, they are fine. Do they have to make you feel good about shopping there; they have stuff you want to buy and that's enough? Personally I don't find them grumpy, nor effusive, just normal, and have always wondered why some people think this. The fact that they are friendly to people they know is normal surely? It's a local co-op but you'd rather the money went out of Brixton to a big company like Holland and Barrett because they don't smile or chat, I can't understand that.



They don't have to make you feel good about shopping there, but being polite and helpful to all customers is the minimum level of customer service as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 13, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> They don't have to make you feel good about shopping there, but being polite and helpful to all customers is the minimum level of customer service as far as I'm concerned.



I've shopped there for years but not regularly enough for them to know me as a regular. I have never found any of them rude. Some of them are friendly some of them are a bit more tight-lipped, like any group of people, I don't take it personally. I wonder what constitutes rude. Have they shouted, sworn or snapped at people? I've never seen them do any of that.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 13, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I wonder what constitutes rude. Have they shouted, sworn or snapped at people? I've never seen them do any of that.


 I don't think you need to do any of those things to be rude. I tried it a couple of times when I first moved here. They weren't offensive or anything - just apparently disinterested, grumpy and unfriendly, to the extent that I recall feeling a bit like my presence was an inconvenience. I never made a conscious decision not to go back but it quickly fell off my radar and I don't think I've been in since the 90s. No idea what it's like now.


----------



## Libertad (Sep 13, 2014)

Anyone here in touch with Dexter Deadwood ?


----------



## nagapie (Sep 13, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I don't think you need to do any of those things to be rude. I tried it a couple of times when I first moved here. They weren't offensive or anything - just apparently disinterested, grumpy and unfriendly, to the extent that I recall feeling a bit like my presence was an inconvenience. I never made a conscious decision not to go back but it quickly fell off my radar and I don't think I've been in since the 90s. No idea what it's like now.



I don't get it.

http://www.brixtonblog.com/brixton-...ith-tony-benest-of-brixton-wholefoods-2/16185

It's a great shop with interesting people. I don't use it as much as I would like to so going to start again so thanks for reminding me naysayers.


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 13, 2014)

To be honest, I do find urbanspaceman's description of BW to be fairly accurate.  The bit about the bearded bloke really made me laugh.  Every single time I go in I go to look a the back shelves and he *always* appears from the stock room and starts tinkering around exactly where I'm browing and it's always clear I'm in the way.    I've gotten used to it and I would still go there over Holland and Barret tbh.  Although when you buy enormous amounts of nuts (as I tend to) it's hard to beat H&B on price when they do 2 for 1 deals. 

I tend to get things like tempeh and other hard to come by stuff in Brixton Wholefoods.  Last time I went in there I was struck by how friendly the girl serving me was.  Hadn't seen her in there before. The other thing I like about BW is that I always encounter people having really interesting conversations. Despite the slightly odd customer service, I'd hate to see it go.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 13, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I don't get it.
> 
> http://www.brixtonblog.com/brixton-...ith-tony-benest-of-brixton-wholefoods-2/16185
> 
> It's a great shop with interesting people. I don't use it as much as I would like to so going to start again so thanks for reminding me naysayers.


I found it sufficiently unfriendly on several occasions after I moved here that I haven't given the place much thought since. No hard feelings. No grudge. Just can't be arsed with it. What's not to get about that? I have no problem getting that you and a Brixton Blog journo, and presumably plenty of others, like it. (Although I'll choose differ with the journo's cheesy conclusion that Brixton collectively owes the chap a big thank you!)


----------



## Rushy (Sep 13, 2014)

editor said:


> I'll ask in the Dog later.
> 
> Your selection of venues sounds like you ran out of money!


So I cancelled it this morning before popping into the Dog Star just on the off chance and ... result!  
Really did not expect to find it there.
Now I just have to wait for it to be unblockified.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Yes. Lazy. But is it really as sinister as you like to make out? If it is, why not make as big a big deal about this dreary image?
> No - I'm not criticising The Albert. Or you. I'm saying bad / lazy / weak marketing is everywhere but it's not a smoking gun pointing to a sinister plot.
> 
> View attachment 60997


That's a generic image used for their pubs, not one of a set of specially created street scenes - which on any given day would normally reveal a very mixed set of people - designed to sell an upmarket private housing development in an area famed for its Afro-Caribbean connections. Surely even you can see the difference.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 13, 2014)

editor said:


> That's a generic image used for their pubs, not one of a set of specially created street scenes - which on any given day would normally reveal a very mixed set of people - designed to sell an upmarket private housing development in an area famed for its Afro-Caribbean connections. Surely even you can see the difference.


Sure there are differences between the examples. I just don't think that the differences are all that big - it's all lazy and generic.

Incidentally, it would seem that Greene King are in denial about The Albert even _being _in Brixton, which may go some way to explaining their choice of photo :


----------



## Winot (Sep 13, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> They don't have to make you feel good about shopping there, but being polite and helpful to all customers is the minimum level of customer service as far as I'm concerned.



Daniel & Sons has recently opened on Acre Lane/Solon Rd (opposite Opus cafe). Smaller than BW but similar lines and very friendly owner.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 13, 2014)

ash said:


> I agree, however I did know people who thought, for example that Clapham was a shithole so moved to said places which were seen as leafy and better then the inner city.  Clapham for example has changed beyond recognition.  I used to live in Tooting and worked in Clapham, even in 1992 the only drinking venues I remember in the high street were the plough, Alexandra, railway and rose and crown (now that pub has changed to a polar opposite if ever there has been one) . The tube station was dead and the only offie had bars and a hatch so I can maybe see how people may have wanted to leave. Then we have the different shithole that resembles the strip on Ayia Napa ??!!



When I used to drink in Clapham in the '80s, I mostly stayed off the high st, used to stagger into a pub on Clapham Manor Street some nights for a lock in, and occasionally drank at the old Larkhall Tavern.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I don't get it.
> It's a great shop with interesting people. I don't use it as much as I would like to so going to start again so thanks for reminding me naysayers.



You don't get it? It's the least welcoming shop in Britain!  Having said that, I still shop there as I love the herbs and spices and would never go to H&B over WB. It is a great shop - I just wish they would smile occasionally.


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 13, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> An oasis of debauchery in an ocean of drug-fuelled excess.



Don't talk about Norbury like that


----------



## nagapie (Sep 13, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> You don't get it? It's the least welcoming shop in Britain!  Having said that, I still shop there as I love the herbs and spices and would never go to H&B over WB. It is a great shop - I just wish they would smile occasionally.



I really don't get it I know about it because I've heard lots of people complain about it but other than the beardy guy not smiling, I've never encountered it. I feel perfectly comfortable in there. And actually when my oldest son was a baby, one of the woman on the tills used to be really sweet to him.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I really don't get it I know about it because I've heard lots of people complain about it but other than the beardy guy not smiling, I've never encountered it. I feel perfectly comfortable in there. And actually when my oldest son was a baby, one of the woman on the tills used to be really sweet to him.


You must give off the right pheromones for them


----------



## nagapie (Sep 13, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> You must give off the right pheromones for them



I'm not a hippie if that's what you mean


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I'm not a hippie if that's what you mean


Not at all! Just a quip


----------



## colacubes (Sep 13, 2014)

I know we all moan about Brixton but I'm back home after 2.5 weeks away and it's great to be home.  Coming out of the tube station after a long flight back from the US was aces


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 13, 2014)

goldenecitrone said:


> An oasis of debauchery in an ocean of drug-fuelled excess.


I would go to this night.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Exactly. It's happening across this city.
> 
> Maybe, in 100 years, Wroclaw will be more desirable than London, the great population shift will reverse and houses will be cheap again.



Houses are not always that cheap in Poland. A Polish friend told me gradually after the collapse of communism houses in part of the seaside town she comes from became out of reach of ordinary Poles.

China is the same. Housing costs in major coastal cities and the capital city are very high. 

The "free market" will never be able to provide housing for all.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2014)

ash said:


> I agree that social or class cleansing might be more appropriate.  Brixton has always had a significant white population, never less than 50 %.  Did we call it ethnic cleansing when the Windrush generation turned up and the fact there was some white flight that occurred afterwards.	I just find this generalisation lazy and emotive. When I arrived in south London (1985) I met Londoners whose families were moving from clapham, brixton, tooting and the like to places like Thornton Heath to improve their lot.  Things have done a full circle but I'm sure they will again at some point.



"White flight" was not about people being pushed out. It was about a certain proportion of white Londoners who could not stomach living next to black people. It was not all white Londoners who felt like this. 

Looking at Coldharbour Ward as a whole (page 21 of that pdf which is figures for 2012). So not sure where you get the 50% white population from. Unless you mean just central Brixton around the market. Where I think you are correct.



> Coldharbour is also one of the most ethnically diverse wards in the borough. Residents are less likely to be white British (28% vs 47%) and more likely to be Black Caribbean (17% vs 10%) or
> Black African (21% vs 10%)



Brixton is still ringed by large Council and Housing Association estates. Where from what I have seen is where majority of the ethnically diverse parts of the ward are situated. Coldharbour is still the poorest ward in Lambeth ( from same report linked above).


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Sure there are differences between the examples. I just don't think that the differences are all that big - it's all lazy and generic.


This is a ridiculous argument and I've no interest in playing along with your daft 'bring up the Albert as many times as possible to make a daft counterpoint' agenda here.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 13, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Interesting article:
> 
> http://londonist.com/2014/08/social-cleansing-and-gentrification-the-fightback.php



Interesting article. Will have to read it properly.

Interesting idea of new State led gentrification. The Heygate development being the most well known. Also its correct that Council and social housing estates are not safe from redevelopment leading to less social housing. (  Guiness Trust Estate in Brixton is an example.)

Its the private developers who do well out of State led gentrification. The State, after 30 years of Thatcherism, is totally in thrall of big business.


----------



## ash (Sep 13, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> "White flight" was not about people being pushed out. It was about a certain proportion of white Londoners who could not stomach living next to black people. It was not all white Londoners who felt like this.
> 
> Looking at Coldharbour Ward as a whole (page 21 of that pdf which is figures for 2012). So not sure where you get the 50% white population from. Unless you mean just central Brixton around the market. Where I think you are correct.
> 
> ...


I agree, I also used a 'lazy term' the people I described as moving out weren't all white and white flight is the wrong term it was about (as I said) peoples perceived idea of improving their lot.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Sep 13, 2014)

Libertad said:


> Anyone here in touch with Dexter Deadwood ?


No
But I miss him
Dexter- who will I spend virtual new year with now?


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 14, 2014)

New streetart going up Sunday afternoon. This is the guys website


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2014)

I've got a piece going up on Brixton Buzz tomorrow morning with the same pics!


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 14, 2014)

editor said:


> I've got a piece going up on Brixton Buzz tomorrow morning with the same pics!



Nice one.

His twitter is @PINSPIRED

					  #PushitNeverStop

If you want to send BB piece to him on twitter.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Nice one.
> 
> His twitter is @PINSPIRED
> 
> ...


I wrote a piece about him when the first artwork went up: 
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/07/...rs-get-a-wonderful-world-cup-themed-makeover/


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 15, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> New streetart going up Sunday afternoon. This is the guys website


Is this by the same person as the piece on the pavement outside the tube. I was passing on the bus very early this morning, so only got a glimpse, there were a lot of confused pidgeons trying to peck away at it


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 15, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I don't think you need to do any of those things to be rude. I tried it a couple of times when I first moved here. They weren't offensive or anything - just apparently disinterested, grumpy and unfriendly, to the extent that I recall feeling a bit like my presence was an inconvenience. I never made a conscious decision not to go back but it quickly fell off my radar and I don't think I've been in since the 90s. No idea what it's like now.



This exactly. When I've asked for help or advice, its never forthcoming. It may be a co-op, but its still a shop and the people who work there should have a reasonable level of customer service skills.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 15, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> This exactly. When I've asked for help or advice, its never forthcoming. It may be a co-op, but its still a shop and the people who work there should have a reasonable level of customer service skills.



I used to shop there regularly back in the day when few other shops sold pulses, veggie or ecover stuff.  In some ways I admire the way they consistantly ignored any standard of 'customer service'  but for a co-op, I always felt the staff wanted to be somewhere else like they didn't like shop work and weren't interested in food.

They never ever made me feel welcome - I don't need the corporate 'have a nice day' sort of falseness, but some human warmth or just general politeness would have been nice.  I haven't bothered to shop there in over ten years.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 15, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> This exactly. When I've asked for help or advice, its never forthcoming. It may be a co-op, but its still a shop and the people who work there should have a reasonable level of customer service skills.



Its not a Coop. friendofdorothy

Has not been a Coop for years.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 16, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> Is this by the same person as the piece on the pavement outside the tube. I was passing on the bus very early this morning, so only got a glimpse, there were a lot of confused pidgeons trying to peck away at it



 I saw that tonight. There was sign next to it saying its part of Design Week. A closer look at it and I do not think its his work.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I saw that tonight. There was sign next to it saying its part of Design Week. A closer look at it and I do not think its his work.


I was told that the person who created the work used to be involved with the original Cooltan.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 16, 2014)

urbanspaceman said:


> Specifically on Brixton Wholefoods: perhaps it's just me, but I find it actively unwelcoming and depressing. For the past twenty years, regular as clockwork, every three months or so I have bought about £100 of breakfast mix ingredients. Not once has anyone even said hello. The bearded man constantly tinkers with the contents of shelves, ignoring customers around him, making you feel as if you're getting in his way. The French lady will occasionally and selectively greet some particular individual effusively - I guess I'm just not in _le club de cool kids_. BW is certainly not cheap, and as far as I can see doesn't put much effort into the bolstering the advantage of small independent shops, acknowledging and building a loyal local client base. And they don't seem to do any kind of marketing or promotions, no matter how rudimentary.
> 
> I mostly shop at Holland and Barrett now: the prices are mostly cheaper, the shop is clean and uncluttered, and the young and friendly staff are helpful, and actually make eye contact.
> 
> Surely the changing demographic - that is affluent/foodie/fashionable, works greatly in BW's favour ?



To be fair to the bearded guy. The shop almost went under when the original lady who started it retired. It was him stepping in that saved the business. He works long hours. I see him leaving it late at night.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 16, 2014)

(wrong place)


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 16, 2014)

Brixton wholefoods is a miserable place to shop. All hippies are wolves in ethically sourced sheep's clothing...


----------



## CH1 (Sep 16, 2014)

Possible material for B Buzz over at Brixton East?

New art/design exhibition in there - quasi Asafo style and a mosaicy Mexican day of the dead style pictures caught my eye. Also a preview of an installation for Chobam Academy and sort of roving gypsy/pyschologists/opticians trailer (you decide).
Apparently there's drinks from 7 pm - 10 pm though I would imagine they may be chargeable - and from Brixton Brewery (pace editor)


----------



## superfly101 (Sep 16, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I haven't bothered to shop there in over ten years.



Holding a grudge against a shop for over 10 years  Did they teabag your hamster or something?


----------



## CH1 (Sep 16, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Possible material for B Buzz over at Brixton East?
> 
> New art/design exhibition in there - quasi Asafo style and a mosaicy Mexican day of the dead style pictures caught my eye. Also a preview of an installation for Chobam Academy and sort of roving gypsy/pyschologists/opticians trailer (you decide).
> Apparently there's drinks from 7 pm - 10 pm though I would imagine they may be chargeable - and from Brixton Brewery (pace editor)


A do-it-yourself job I'm afraid. I did ask for permission, before some bright spark complains!


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 16, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Its not a Coop. friendofdorothy
> 
> Has not been a Coop for years.


It was originally wasn't it? wonder when it stopped being a co-op? and why? I used to shop there regularly for years and there was no noticable sign of anything ever changing in there. 



superfly101 said:


> Holding a grudge against a shop for over 10 years  Did they teabag your hamster or something?


Not a grudge - but other places started selling tofu, ecover etc - so there was no special reason to go there anymore. Then I gave up being vegetarian, but thats another story.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 16, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> It was originally wasn't it? wonder when it stopped being a co-op? and why? I used to shop there regularly for years and there was no noticable sign of anything ever changing in there.
> 
> 
> Not a grudge - but other places started selling tofu, ecover etc - so there was no special reason to go there anymore. Then I gave up being vegetarian, but thats another story.


It was originally where Kaff is and was the Brixton and Bangladesh something or other Co-op


----------



## dbs1fan (Sep 16, 2014)

CH1, post: 13402188, member: 12717"]It was originally where Kaff is and was the Brixton and Bangladesh something or other Co-op[/QUOTE]


----------



## dbs1fan (Sep 16, 2014)

The original Brixton Wholefoods was called The Grain Barn and was where Lounge is now. Tony, (beardy bloke always in long shorts) and his now ex-partner, Hilary, took over the original shop/co-op from Hilary's mum


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 16, 2014)

The Juan is Dead Mexican stuff CH1 posted is for sale in the Herne Hill market (which isn't going to be opening on Saturdays).

Oh and the Half Moon is apparently squatted?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 16, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> The Juan is Dead Mexican stuff CH1 posted is for sale in the Herne Hill market (which isn't going to be opening on Saturdays).
> 
> Oh and the Half Moon is apparently squatted?



Attempted theft of bar rail and stuff by the squatters, according to a tweet from a burgher of Herne Hill.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 16, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> It was originally wasn't it? wonder when it stopped being a co-op? and why? I used to shop there regularly for years and there was no noticable sign of anything ever changing in there.



I doubt it was ever a Coop. 

Hilarys mum who started it years ago did I think donate some of the profits to third world. So it was run as partly a charity.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 16, 2014)

Saw this in Phoenix


> How would you like to contribute your story to the Chronicles of Brixton?
> 
> To celebrate the kaleidoscopic culture of Brixton, designer Robyn will be creating a large scale collage, compiled by you, the people of Brixton.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Oh and the Half Moon is apparently squatted?


I do hope so. It's criminal having that huge space being kept empty.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 16, 2014)

dbs1fan said:


> The original Brixton Wholefoods was called The Grain Barn and was where Lounge is now. Tony, (beardy bloke always in long shorts) and his now ex-partner, Hilary, took over the original shop/co-op from Hilary's mum





Gramsci said:


> I doubt it was ever a Coop.
> Hilarys mum who started it years ago did I think donate some of the profits to third world. So it was run as partly a charity.


My recollection is that it did style itself as Brixton and Bangladesh Wholefood Co-op.

Brixton & Bangladesh Wholefood Co-op had a stall in Wandsworth Arndale Centre on Saturdays around 1977/8, which is where I first encountered the name (I lived in SW18 then and used to buy their muesli, which was good qulity and good value).

After moving to Brixton late in 1978 I continued to buy food stuff from their shop. And dbs1fan is correct - the shop was where Lounge is now.

The Brixton and Bangladesh shop also sold records. A service engineer at Grundig (who I briefly worked for in 1979) dared me to buy a record they had in their window: "The Incredible Shrinking Dickies"
 
so I did. Blue vinyl inside. Remarkably quick and palatable version of "Paranoid" on side 1.


----------



## technical (Sep 17, 2014)

I had their single of the Banana Splits theme on yellow vinyl. That dates me .....


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2014)

More photos from the Brixi Army exhibition:











http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/09/brixi-army-art-exhibition-launch-party-at-brixton-east-photos/


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2014)

Some Brockwell Park scenes:






















http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/09/early-autumn-scenes-in-brockwell-park-south-london/


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Good place to eat steak on a Wednesday evening in or close to Brixton, anyone?


----------



## colacubes (Sep 17, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Good place to eat steak on a Wednesday evening in or close to Brixton, anyone?



Crown and Anchor.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Crown and Anchor.


I like your thinking there.
Was planning to go to The Windmill after - which might have made it a touch inconvenient - but think it is sold out.


----------



## Winot (Sep 17, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I like your thinking there.
> Was planning to go to The Windmill after - which might have made it a touch inconvenient - but think it is sold out.



Bistro Union (if you're prepared to slink Clapham-wards).


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Winot said:


> Bistro Union (if you're prepared to slink Clapham-wards).


Can't wait for dinner - wherever it is...


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

Does anyone know where I might be able to buy jam sugar? I'd like to avoid Tesco if I can.


----------



## Greebo (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Does anyone know where I might be able to buy jam sugar? I'd like to avoid Tesco if I can.


Large branch of Sainsburys?


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Does anyone know where I might be able to buy jam sugar? I'd like to avoid Tesco if I can.



i wonder if M&S would have it?  I know it's little but htey have some fairly random stuff like that IIRC...


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> i wonder if M&S would have it?  I know it's little but htey have some fairly random stuff like that IIRC...



Pretty sure I've never seen it in there.



Greebo said:


> Large branch of Sainsburys?



Would prefer to avoid for the same reason as Tescos, i.e. I really hate big supermarkets


----------



## Winot (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Does anyone know where I might be able to buy jam sugar? I'd like to avoid Tesco if I can.



Portuguese deli? Nour?


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

Winot said:


> Portuguese deli? Nour?



None in Nour, but Portuguese Deli might be a good call


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Pretty sure I've never seen it in there.



ah shame..

do you really need it - can't you just add lemon peel or something I seem to remember? 

anyway - there's bound to be somewhere in Brixton to get it - RubyToogood is bound to know.

and Brixton Wholefoods?


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> ah shame..
> 
> do you really need it - can't you just add lemon peel or something I seem to remember?
> 
> ...



I could but I'm trying to make it as quick and painless as possible!


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> I could but I'm trying to make it as quick and painless as possible!



don't blame you.. I went that route last time too...


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

Brixton Wholefoods will probably sell pectin.


----------



## T & P (Sep 19, 2014)

Just be mentally prepared for a diabolical shopping experience (apparently)


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

I am so sick of the fly tipping on our street. There's currently an old kitchen, about three mattresses and assorted other assorted shit which has been there for ages. Ever since Lambeth started charging for bulky waste collection it's been a problem. Just called the council to complain.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I am so sick of the fly tipping on our street. There's currently an old kitchen, about three mattresses and assorted other assorted shit which has been there for ages. Ever since Lambeth started charging for bulky waste collection it's been a problem. Just called the council to complain.



Its become a massive issue around Brixton Hill. Somers Road, Merredene Street and Archbishops Place are becoming dumping grounds


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Sep 19, 2014)

The space under my dining table has become a mini fly-tip while I wait to have enough old TV's and broken/ outdated small electrical items to make a cab trip to the Vale Street recycling centre economical .

I don't really understand about the bulky waste collections anymore - but have just googled & apparently Lambeth will actually take away up to 4 items or 4 _bagfuls_ of waste in one collection for £20 so I might try that, but am wary of being charged the extra £5 per item by trying to have a mixture of items & bags collected .


----------



## CH1 (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> The space under my dining table has become a mini fly-tip while I wait to have enough old TV's and broken/ outdated small electrical items to make a cab trip to the Vale Street recycling centre economical .
> 
> I don't really understand about the bulky waste collections anymore - but have just googled & apparently Lambeth will actually take away up to 4 items or 4 _bagfuls_ of waste in one collection for £20 so I might try that, but am wary of being charged the extra £5 per item by trying to have a mixture of items & bags collected .


I have a similar problem. Wonder how they feel about old tellies on the 322?


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Sep 19, 2014)

I'd forgotten about the 322!
If I fill the broken shredder with small broken things & put the rest in a bin bag I might just make it there on that.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> I'd forgotten about the 322!
> If I fill the broken shredder with small broken things & put the rest in a bin bag I might just make it there on that.


There's a recycling bin for small electrical stuff on Railton Rd, Herne Hill end (just before the bend).


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

fyi - the A&M Continental did have jam sugar.  My chilli jam is on the hob


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

A new shop is opening next to the tattoo parlour on Atlantic Rd. Not sure what it is but I'd guess some kind of bakery or deli as there's a food cabinet thing in there. It's called Parissi.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> fyi - the A&M Continental did have jam sugar.  My chilli jam is on the hob


Good to know! I think I just used ordinary sugar for my chilli jam.


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Good to know! I think I just used ordinary sugar for my chilli jam.



The recipe I'm using specifies jam sugar so fingers crossed it will turn out ok


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

Update: Google tells me Parissi is a cake shop selling fancy things like macarons. They also have an alcohol license.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

Brixton delivered last night - hilarious bingo/music quiz at Kaff with cheap drinks all night, a quick one in the Albert and then on to karaoke night at the Queen's Head which was every bit as unique as the venue. Wonderful stuff with a great mixed crowd.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

Karaoke!


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> The space under my dining table has become a mini fly-tip while I wait to have enough old TV's and broken/ outdated small electrical items to make a cab trip to the Vale Street recycling centre economical .
> 
> I don't really understand about the bulky waste collections anymore - but have just googled & apparently Lambeth will actually take away up to 4 items or 4 _bagfuls_ of waste in one collection for £20 so I might try that, but am wary of being charged the extra £5 per item by trying to have a mixture of items & bags collected .



I really wasn't sure what to do with rubbish from having old bathroom replaced last year, dozens of bags of it, so just had it sitting out the front while I priced various options - about half of it disappeared within a day - incl, bath, all metal bits and even the grotty sink and toilet. Some council workers offered to remove the rest for about quarter of the going rate in cash. 

I often find furniture, holdhold stuff and machines, even broken ones simply disappear if left by my bins - presume scrap metal collectors or keen recyclers take it. 

I have a few things too big to fit in a bin (a kitchen cupboard door, a light tube and some laminate flooring) still to get rid of -  I don't have a car either and £20 seems far too steep. Want to go shares on that cab?


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 19, 2014)

editor said:


> Brixton delivered last night - hilarious bingo/music quiz at Kaff with cheap drinks all night, a quick one in the Albert and then on to karaoke night at the Queen's Head which was every bit as unique as the venue. Wonderful stuff with a great mixed crowd.



Ant is quite a character.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 19, 2014)

I caught someone going through next doors skip at 5am the other morning. Stealing their building rubbish, so there must be money in it


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 19, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> I caught someone going through next doors skip at 5am the other morning. Stealing their building rubbish, so there must be money in it


so is there room for my stuff in there now?


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 19, 2014)

Afraid its probably full again by now


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Karaoke!


I normally hate karaoke but this night is bloody good fun. I don't normally like bingo either, come to think of it.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

I bloody love karaoke.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I bloody love karaoke.


You'd probably love the Queen's Head take on it, although it's rowdier than most!


----------



## Ms T (Sep 19, 2014)

editor said:


> You'd probably love the Queen's Head take on it, although it's rowdier than most!


Just as long as there aren't too many teenagers showing off their vocal prowess with power ballads.... The curse of karaoke.


----------



## ericjarvis (Sep 19, 2014)

I hate karaoke because you can't change anything, you are stuck with a recorded backing fixing phrasing and vocal dynamics and whatnot. However I enjoy doing my annual "live karaoke/jam session".


----------



## Rushy (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Just as long as there aren't too many teenagers showing off their vocal prowess with power ballads.... The curse of karaoke.


The worst karaoke is karaoke taken too seriously. I'd never experienced it until a  night in the old Z Bar. By the time they called us up to do La Bamba we'd scarpered...


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Good to know! I think I just used ordinary sugar for my chilli jam.



It is certainly heading towards the right consistency. Bit too hot to taste just yet but looking good


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Just as long as there aren't too many teenagers showing off their vocal prowess with power ballads.... The curse of karaoke.


It's definitely not that kind of night. And no hen parties either.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 19, 2014)

I've had to quit my Queen's Head karaoke habit, because I'm expected to be at least physically present at work on Fridays


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

The Queen's Head legendary Wednesday reggae night will now reappear on one Friday a month in the original venue and there may be news about an alternative Wednesday venue soon.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

Brixton Pound party at Gro:Brixton last night.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> fyi - the A&M Continental did have jam sugar.  My chilli jam is on the hob



I love that shop so much, whenever you need a foodstuff that no one seems to have they've got it.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 19, 2014)

I loathe karaoke! It's was huge in the late 80s/early 90s in Australia, with the Asian immigrants and tourists taking it hugely seriously.

I produced a pilot for a prime time tv show of a kareoke talent competition. It didn't get picked up luckily or I would have had to produce one a week for a year.

Although, under the influence of much champagne in vietnam last year I did get convinced to do it and weirdly enjoyed it, but it was in a private room (bigger than the downstairs of our house)


----------



## Manter (Sep 19, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> I loathe karaoke! It's was huge in the late 80s/early 90s in Australia, with the Asian immigrants and tourists taking it hugely seriously.
> 
> I produced a pilot for a prime time tv show of a kareoke talent competition. It didn't get picked up luckily or I would have had to produce one a week for a year.
> 
> Although, under the influence of much champagne in vietnam last year I did get convinced to do it and weirdly enjoyed it, but it was in a private room (bigger than the downstairs of our house)


Karaoke box is mostly private rooms. It's the only way I'll even consider it


----------



## RubyToogood (Sep 19, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> ah shame..
> 
> do you really need it - can't you just add lemon peel or something I seem to remember?
> 
> ...


I actually had no idea as I always buy it nearer home. What I would offer is the advice to always read the back of the packet and check you're actually buying jam sugar, the one with added pectin, and not 
preserving sugar, which just has bigger crystals or something.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 19, 2014)

Manter said:


> Karaoke box is mostly private rooms. It's the only way I'll even consider it


Same here manter. I really wasn't keen but got outvoted. The place was crazy. About 50 massive rooms, with minibars and waiter service if you wanted cocktails. You could even smoke inside. Totally packed at 10 on a Sunday evening.


----------



## Manter (Sep 19, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> Same here manter. I really wasn't keen but got outvoted. The place was crazy. About 50 massive rooms, with minibars and waiter service if you wanted cocktails. You could even smoke inside. Totally packed at 10 on a Sunday evening.


I also have to be spectacularly drunk


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 19, 2014)

Manter said:


> I also have to be spectacularly drunk


I was!


----------



## T & P (Sep 19, 2014)

editor said:


> Brixton Pound party at Gro:Brixton last night.



Cocktails and people in hats... it's unstoppable!


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

T & P said:


> Cocktails and people in hats... it's unstoppable!


The hat count was high in that area.


----------



## uk benzo (Sep 19, 2014)

I heard there was a stabbing inside the sainsburys opposite the 99p shop this afternoon.


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

I just saw a rat on Railton Road.  1st time I've ever seen one on the street in 15 years in London.  It was in the Poets Corner area and was  as fuck


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> I just saw a rat on Railton Road.  1st time I've ever seen one on the street in 15 years in London.  It was in the Poets Corner area and was  as fuck


Was it wearing a hat, nibbling some upmarket cheese and scurrying over an antique bit of wood?


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

editor said:


> Was it wearing a hat, nibbling some upmarket cheese and scurrying over an antique bit of wood?



No.  Maybe.  Yes, if by antique wood you mean knackered old door


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> No.  Maybe.  Yes, if by antique wood you mean knackered old door


Historically distressed oak is in at the moment,don't you know


----------



## colacubes (Sep 19, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Historically distressed oak is in at the moment,don't you know



Aged in rat piss


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 19, 2014)

My first and last Karaoke performance was back in the 90's in a pub near London bridge, I was belting out ub40's kingston town until a light ale bottle came flying my way. A large fight then broke out and the old bill called.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Aged in rat piss


Eau natural!


----------



## oryx (Sep 19, 2014)

colacubes said:


> I just saw a rat on Railton Road.  1st time I've ever seen one on the street in 15 years in London.  It was in the Poets Corner area and was  as fuck



I once saw a rat on my way from London Bridge to the Royal Oak. This little furry thing popped out of a drain and I thought what a sweet little thing.......

......followed by HOLY FUCK! IT'S A RAT!

Londoners only ever ten feet away from one or whatever it is.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 19, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> I heard there was a stabbing inside the sainsburys opposite the 99p shop this afternoon.


Yeah, it was all cordoned off on my way home, about sevenish.


----------



## Winot (Sep 20, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> Yeah, it was all cordoned off on my way home, about sevenish.



Still cordoned off at midnight [emoji45]


----------



## leanderman (Sep 20, 2014)

oryx said:


> I once saw a rat on my way from London Bridge to the Royal Oak. This little furry thing popped out of a drain and I thought what a sweet little thing.......
> 
> ......followed by HOLY FUCK! IT'S A RAT!
> 
> Londoners only ever ten feet away from one or whatever it is.



Only 10ft away from a ... Sainsbury Local


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Sep 20, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Only 10ft away from a ... Sainsbury Local



That's poor (pun intended) even by your standards.
Make an oblique joke of it because it ain't posh people like you getting stabbed up, it ain't posh people like you doing the stabbing.


----------



## Manter (Sep 20, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> That's poor (pun intended) even by your standards.
> Make an oblique joke of it because it ain't posh people like you getting stabbed up, it ain't posh people like you doing the stabbing.
> 
> 
> View attachment 61289


Wtf? He was joking about ubiquitous mini supermarkets. It's got nothing to do with stabbings.


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 20, 2014)

Oh dear. Have you pulled an all nighter dex?


----------



## Manter (Sep 20, 2014)

Among the usual religious bonkersness outside the tube, I was given a leaflet for the 'love school' http://www.uckg.org/press/?p=35827


----------



## Ms T (Sep 20, 2014)

colacubes said:


> I just saw a rat on Railton Road.  1st time I've ever seen one on the street in 15 years in London.  It was in the Poets Corner area and was  as fuck


There was one in the middle of our garden once. Sitting there bold as brass while the cats slumbered obliviously...


----------



## T & P (Sep 20, 2014)

Manter said:


> Among the usual religious bonkersness outside the tube, I was given a leaflet for the 'love school' http://www.uckg.org/press/?p=35827


Sounds like a good place to pick up shags.


----------



## han (Sep 20, 2014)

blue nun saw two rats shagging in Charing X once. In broad daylight. They were squealing.


----------



## ash (Sep 20, 2014)

Manter said:


> Among the usual religious bonkersness outside the tube, I was given a leaflet for the 'love school' http://www.uckg.org/press/?p=35827


UCKG at it again, remember tescos at Xmas, this has been an annual event for at least a couple of years. Another attempt to entrap vulnerable people.


----------



## Manter (Sep 20, 2014)

ash said:


> UCKG at it again, remember tescos at Xmas, this has been an annual event for at least a couple of years. Another attempt to entrap vulnerable people.


Ah, I'd forgotten it was them


----------



## footballerslegs (Sep 20, 2014)

So more Stockwell than Brixton, but I hope a few people will be interested: the Beehive is shutting down tomorrow. To be turned into flats (apparently). Another one bites the dust.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 20, 2014)

footballerslegs said:


> So more Stockwell than Brixton, but I hope a few people will be interested: the Beehive is shutting down tomorrow. To be turned into flats (apparently). Another one bites the dust.


Just to clarify, this is the estate beehive, not the weatherspoons. Still a bugger, mind.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 20, 2014)

Just returned, utterly munted, from the together milarky at St. Mathews. Good times.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2014)

footballerslegs said:


> So more Stockwell than Brixton, but I hope a few people will be interested: the Beehive is shutting down tomorrow. To be turned into flats (apparently). Another one bites the dust.


Have you got any more info on this? And pics?


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2014)

Some pics and report from the Kaff Mad Bingo night.












http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/09/...d-thunderball-at-kaff-brixton-18th-september/


----------



## footballerslegs (Sep 20, 2014)

editor said:


> Have you got any more info on this? And pics?


 
No, not really I'm afraid, only that tomorrow is apparently the last day. Fairly reliable souce, tho not from the Beehive itself.


----------



## se5 (Sep 20, 2014)

footballerslegs said:


> No, not really I'm afraid, only that tomorrow is apparently the last day. Fairly reliable souce, tho not from the Beehive itself.



A planning application was passed  in February - http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=N0S34ABO67000

"Erection of a part two-part three-storey side/rear extension, removal of existing pitched roof and erection of a mansard-type roof extension, alterations to front elevation at ground floor level of the existing side projection. Internal alteration to the existing pub including provision of ancillary residential accommodation at first floor level; provision of 2-self contained flats; roof terrace and associated refuse and cycle storage."

I imagine it will be like several other former pubs in the area - whilst technically it will remain as a pub on the groundfloor ready to reopen once the development has occurred the costs/restrictions will mean that it will not be viable to run it as a pub and so it will reopen as a Tesco metro/Sainsburys local or a few years down the line the developer will apply for change of use to residential


----------



## CH1 (Sep 20, 2014)

Manter said:


> Among the usual religious bonkersness outside the tube, I was given a leaflet for the 'love school' http://www.uckg.org/press/?p=35827


They also have paid adverts on the tube itself.

Maybe it's about time these people had the John Sweeney treatment on TV (like Scientology). Though I have never heard of people leaving UCKG, being harassed by them, losing everything etc etc have you?

Sorry to repeat myself, but a few weeks ago I read a novel featuring a corrupt UCKG pastor - who ended up "wiped out" in gangster way.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2014)

Man, I've missed this stuff. It is so tasty!


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 21, 2014)

Area around rush common and road behind Rushcroft ( I forget the name) cordoned off and forensics combing the pavements, the copper guarding the cordon said there was a shooting.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 21, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Area aroubd rush common and road behinf rushcroft ( I forget the name) cordened off and forensics combing the pavements, the copper guarding the cordon said there was a shooting.


saltoun?


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 21, 2014)

Rushy said:


> saltoun?



That's the one.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 21, 2014)

footballerslegs said:


> So more Stockwell than Brixton, but I hope a few people will be interested: the Beehive is shutting down tomorrow. To be turned into flats (apparently). Another one bites the dust.



This is sad. I've been there a few times. Me and Onket went there once. Another Stockwell pub goes. There will be nowhere left!


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 21, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Only 10ft away from a ... Sainsbury Local



Never more than 10ft away from a DJ


----------



## footballerslegs (Sep 21, 2014)

se5 said:


> A planning application was passed  in February - http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=N0S34ABO67000
> 
> "Erection of a part two-part three-storey side/rear extension, removal of existing pitched roof and erection of a mansard-type roof extension, alterations to front elevation at ground floor level of the existing side projection. Internal alteration to the existing pub including provision of ancillary residential accommodation at first floor level; provision of 2-self contained flats; roof terrace and associated refuse and cycle storage."
> 
> I imagine it will be like several other former pubs in the area - whilst technically it will remain as a pub on the groundfloor ready to reopen once the development has occurred the costs/restrictions will mean that it will not be viable to run it as a pub and so it will reopen as a Tesco metro/Sainsburys local or a few years down the line the developer will apply for change of use to residential


 
Thanks for sharing this. I had no idea this had gone through - which is why the news came as a bit of a shock.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2014)

footballerslegs said:


> Thanks for sharing this. I had no idea this had gone through - which is why the news came as a bit of a shock.


I can't find anything online about the closure (can anyone else?) but the landlord made a passionate appeal to Lambeth planning. Which they ignored.


> I am the tenant of the BEEHIVE PH, and object to the grant of consent on the following grounds -
> 
> This is a true community pub, tucked away out of sight of the main road (Stockwell Road): apart from a few people living in adjacent streets or living, or working, at the YMCA, nearly all its customers live on Stockwell Gardens Estate, of which it forms a part. The owners try to create a home-like atmosphere to encourage customers to come there to talk and meet friends, or to watch football and other sports. It is a popular place for people on the estate to celebrate, weddings and christenings, or to gather for a drink after a funeral.
> It is, unashamedly, an old fashioned 'estate' pub; trading during normal hours; giving value - it has to, as this is not a rich area and there is not much money around for such things as cocktail bars, gastro pubs or smart restaurants.
> ...


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 21, 2014)

Oh god, that is heartbreaking read.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 21, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Oh god, that is heartbreaking read.



isn't it?  poor sods.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 21, 2014)

editor said:


> I can't find anything online about the closure (can anyone else?) but the landlord made a passionate appeal to Lambeth planning. Which they ignored.



Same thing happening to a snooker hall, on the West Norwood thread. And everywhere else.

It's crazy to lose business space to housing at this rate.


----------



## footballerslegs (Sep 21, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Oh god, that is heartbreaking read.


 
Just, sigh.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 21, 2014)

So what pubs are there to go to in Stockwell? Swan, Queens Head and  Marquis of Lorne...


----------



## footballerslegs (Sep 21, 2014)

There are a couple the other side of Stockwell tube - The Priory Arms, The Cavendish Arms... Maybe the Phoenix (if Clapham Road counts?). But to lose The Grosvenor and The Beehive in a matter of months is a huge loss to this end of Stockwell.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 21, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Same thing happening to a snooker hall, on the West Norwood thread. And everywhere else.
> 
> It's crazy to lose business space to housing at this rate.


I recently played there at a reggae night,I wasn't aware of this sad news. One less place for a social gathering.
Brixton snooker hall was converted into flats some years ago but i'm not sure the place is or ever was occupied with tenants.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 21, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Same thing happening to a snooker hall, on the West Norwood thread. And everywhere else.
> 
> It's crazy to lose business space to housing at this rate.



That is sad news. Another space lost.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 21, 2014)

boohoo said:


> So what pubs are there to go to in Stockwell? Swan, Queens Head and  Marquis of Lorne...





footballerslegs said:


> There are a couple the other side of Stockwell tube - The Priory Arms, The Cavendish Arms... Maybe the Phoenix (if Clapham Road counts?). But to lose The Grosvenor and The Beehive in a matter of months is a huge loss to this end of Stockwell.



also the much underated Duke of Cambridge


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 21, 2014)

boohoo said:


> So what pubs are there to go to in Stockwell? Swan, Queens Head and  Marquis of Lorne...


Carlton arms on south lambeth road.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 21, 2014)

footballerslegs said:


> There are a couple the other side of Stockwell tube - The Priory Arms, The Cavendish Arms... Maybe the Phoenix (if Clapham Road counts?). But to lose The Grosvenor and The Beehive in a matter of months is a huge loss to this end of Stockwell.



The Priory arms and the Cavendish Arms are on the outerskirts of Stockwell. Have you been to the Surprise? I like the size of the Phoenix but it's probably a closer one for those who go to the Beehive. 



cuppa tee said:


> also the much underated Duke of Cambridge



That again is down the Larkhall end of Stockwell. When I was a kid, that end wasn't Stockwell. My locals were the grosvenor, the Plough and the Old white horse - didn't go to the crown and Anchor but  now I find it a bit posh. Later years have been to the Queen''s head when it was the far side.  And have popped into the Beehive quite a few time.


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2014)

I've heard the Queen's Head has now been sold.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 21, 2014)

editor said:


> I've heard the Queen's Head has now been sold.



oh... what's happening with that?


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2014)

boohoo said:


> oh... what's happening with that?


It's been up for sale for ages - I heard that it's been bought by the owner of a successful-but-somewhat hip bar who has made his mark not too far away. I won't name then quite yet until I get it confirmed.

The pub's unique character will almost certainly change though.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 21, 2014)

This is now up for sale,,,http://www.movehut.co.uk/property/245005-brixton-london-sw2-1ap-124-dalberg-road/


----------



## boohoo (Sep 21, 2014)

editor said:


> It's been up for sale for ages - I heard that it's been bought by the owner of a successful-but-somewhat hip bar who has made his mark not too far away. I won't name then quite yet until I get it confirmed.
> 
> The pub's unique character will almost certainly change though.



I think most of the pubs will end up either being run by Antic or being aimed at the trendy crowd. 
Still I'd rather see it remain as a pub or bar in some form or another - it's been that since the 18th century in the same building which is pretty remarkable!


----------



## footballerslegs (Sep 21, 2014)

boohoo said:


> The Priory arms and the Cavendish Arms are on the outerskirts of Stockwell. Have you been to the Surprise? I like the size of the Phoenix but it's probably a closer one for those who go to the Beehive.
> 
> 
> 
> That again is down the Larkhall end of Stockwell. When I was a kid, that end wasn't Stockwell. My locals were the grosvenor, the Plough and the Old white horse - didn't go to the crown and Anchor but  now I find it a bit posh. Later years have been to the Queen''s head when it was the far side.  And have popped into the Beehive quite a few time.


 
Don't really know the Surprise but have always wanted to try it for a pint. I'd better do it pretty soon given the rate of closures! Is there a Stockwell pub called the Britania too?

And as for the news about The Queen's Head ... !!


----------



## CH1 (Sep 21, 2014)

The (Brixton) Beehive tonight seemed to be about 50% spill-over from Craft Beer - which closed by 10.30 incidentally. Maybe the new residents have twigged that you can get quality ale at half the price just round the corner.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 22, 2014)

We're looking for a place to rent in Brixton area. The prices are astounding and you need to be able to pony up the deposit on the spot if you like a place otherwise it's gone. Decent places are being snapped up within a day. I remember the market being difficult but it's ridiculous now. Absurd.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 22, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> We're looking for a place to rent in Brixton area. The prices are astounding and you need to be able to pony up the deposit on the spot if you like a place otherwise it's gone. Decent places are being snapped up within a day. I remember the market being difficult but it's ridiculous now. Absurd.


Friend of mine recently called the bluff of her landlord who has been edging up the rent over the last year, and gave her notice. Found a new place not far away within a few days, and managed to bargain down the asking price. So perseverance may bring hope. Good luck.


----------



## T & P (Sep 22, 2014)

Talk to Foxtons. Really good people, and quite a few bargains to be had I hear.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 22, 2014)

T & P said:


> Talk to Foxtons. Really good people, and quite a few bargains to be had I hear.


I actually spoke with Foxtons this morning (desperate times etcetera). Your second sentence proves to be inaccurate


----------



## boohoo (Sep 22, 2014)

Move to the suburbs.. Mr Retro


----------



## Crispy (Sep 22, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> This is now up for sale,,,http://www.movehut.co.uk/property/245005-brixton-london-sw2-1ap-124-dalberg-road/


I'm amazed it took this long :-/


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Sep 22, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I really wasn't sure what to do with rubbish from having old bathroom replaced last year, dozens of bags of it, so just had it sitting out the front while I priced various options - about half of it disappeared within a day - incl, bath, all metal bits and even the grotty sink and toilet. Some council workers offered to remove the rest for about quarter of the going rate in cash.
> 
> I often find furniture, holdhold stuff and machines, even broken ones simply disappear if left by my bins - presume scrap metal collectors or keen recyclers take it.
> 
> I have a few things too big to fit in a bin (a kitchen cupboard door, a light tube and some laminate flooring) still to get rid of -  I don't have a car either and £20 seems far too steep. Want to go shares on that cab?



Yes - sharing a cab would be an excellent idea. It would motivate me to actually dig out all the stuff I've been squirrelling away into corners. Am away for a bit till the second week in October if you can wait that long?


----------



## CH1 (Sep 22, 2014)

For all the Chuka fans on this board:





http://www.cityam.com/1411353757/more-power-london-and-regions-not-me


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 22, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> Yes - sharing a cab would be an excellent idea. It would motivate me to actually dig out all the stuff I've been squirrelling away into corners. Am away for a bit till the second week in October if you can wait that long?



Yes lets do this - pm on its way


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 22, 2014)

Brady's has a new paint job


----------



## leanderman (Sep 22, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Brady's has a new paint job



You glimpsed inside? Rainbow colours!


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 22, 2014)

Haven't seen inside, but suspect the outside is an extension of it.


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Brady's has a new paint job


Edgy.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 22, 2014)

editor said:


> Edgy.


and vibrant?


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> and vibrant?


Very vibrant.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 23, 2014)

This has just been discussed on bbc radio, did any urbs go?
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...er-after-disastrous-brixton-show-9746959.html


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 23, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> and vibrant?


Vibetasticly vibrant and Edgemungueously edgey is my take on Brixton


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> This has just been discussed on bbc radio, did any urbs go?
> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...er-after-disastrous-brixton-show-9746959.html





> The warm-up act DJ Tieks left the crowd cold after he asked if any of them were from the West Coast of America despite the show being in London.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 23, 2014)

editor said:


>


West coast/South London its all the same dude


----------



## teuchter (Sep 23, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...er-after-disastrous-brixton-show-9746959.html


 Brixton academy now has 5000 seats in the auditorium? Gentrification is out of control.


----------



## Smick (Sep 23, 2014)

I once played a gig in Cricklewood. I asked if there were any people from East Belfast. I got no response but, undeterred, decided to proceed with a joke about Harland and Wolff to absolutely no response.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 23, 2014)

editor said:


>



A friend says:

I liked it. Musically, the way she remixed her songs was brilliant. Some didn't like that but I did. There were sound issues

and also she was 1.1/2hrs late. But as a performer she was great. Her acoustic section is where she shone the most.


----------



## Kevs (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm a bit skint this month - if I pay for some Brixton Pounds over text message this month, does this mean I won't pay for it until my next phone bill?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 23, 2014)

Kevs said:


> I'm a bit skint this month - if I pay for some Brixton Pounds over text message this month, does this mean I won't pay for it until my next phone bill?



No. The money on your phone has to have come from your bank account.


----------



## Kevs (Sep 23, 2014)

leanderman said:


> No. The money on your phone has to have come from your bank account.


damn I thought I was on to a decent pay day loan alternative then!


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 23, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Brixton academy now has 5000 seats in the auditorium? Gentrification is out of control.


We are doomed i tell you.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2014)

They're demountable seats aren't they?


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2014)

The vanishing tube station artwork: 












http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/09/...-brixton-design-week-artwork-at-brixton-tube/


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2014)

Very interesting piece here: 
*Lambeth Council in top 3 of local authorities that spends public money in private sector*


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2014)

And this is heartbreaking: The last night of the Beehive pub in Crossford Street, Stockwell in photos


----------



## boohoo (Sep 23, 2014)

editor said:


> And this is heartbreaking: The last night of the Beehive pub in Crossford Street, Stockwell in photos



Had you been before? It was a proper little local pub. It seems like we are beginning to see the end of spaces like this.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 23, 2014)

Old news but confirmation that Lambeth have no morals,,,
http://www.streathamguardian.co.uk/news/8378026._Unethical__council_invests_in_tobacco_companies/


----------



## tompound (Sep 23, 2014)

Kevs said:


> I'm a bit skint this month - if I pay for some Brixton Pounds over text message this month, does this mean I won't pay for it until my next phone bill?



It's a nice idea! However as Leanderman says, the B£ on your phone comes first via a bank transfer. 

Quite a few people I know use the B£ for personal budgeting, ie. they put on X amount a month, and that's their allowance for certain things, treat or otherwise. Seems to work for them!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 23, 2014)

Is Boris Johnson coming to Brixton Market on Thursday?


----------



## AliceTrashton (Sep 23, 2014)

Hi, having grown up here and recently moved back I'm concerned about the changes happening to Brixton, basically I have an uneasy feeling that more evictions, more 'outdoor festivals', chain restaurants,feepaying fireworks and astonishing rent prices might somehow be linked...However I'd like to see what other people think-whether they're happy with these changes or like me, a bit worried that Brixton is on its way to becoming an anonymous area that only caters to young urban professionals..... 
I have made a facebook group to try and get in touch with people who are thinking along similar lines with the hope of discussing these issues (perhaps there are no issues...) and, if there are, perhaps organising a meeting....
Personally I think high rents are the main area of contention here, but I am not up to date with the council housing situation...maybe it's fine, all I know is that so far if I wanted a place of my own here, that wouldn't be possible....


here is the link to the group, I've just made it so it's a bit sparse but please join if you are interested. thanks.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1538207716410336/


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 23, 2014)

Rented a flat through Foxtons. Of those we approached they were by far the best and most accommodating for people who are not living in the country. Am I going to be banned?


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2014)

Doesn't this look lovely?


----------



## leanderman (Sep 23, 2014)

editor said:


> Doesn't this look lovely?
> 
> View attachment 61502



Whose land is it? And whose storage cabin?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 23, 2014)

AliceTrashton said:


> Hi, having grown up here and recently moved back I'm concerned about the changes happening to Brixton, basically I have an uneasy feeling that more evictions, more 'outdoor festivals', chain restaurants,feepaying fireworks and astonishing rent prices might somehow be linked...However I'd like to see what other people think-whether they're happy with these changes or like me, a bit worried that Brixton is on its way to becoming an anonymous area that only caters to young urban professionals.....
> I have made a facebook group to try and get in touch with people who are thinking along similar lines with the hope of discussing these issues (perhaps there are no issues...) and, if there are, perhaps organising a meeting....
> Personally I think high rents are the main area of contention here, but I am not up to date with the council housing situation...maybe it's fine, all I know is that so far if I wanted a place of my own here, that wouldn't be possible....
> 
> ...


lots of us feel more than uneasy. Sorry I can't join your group - I'm not on facebook.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Whose land is it? And whose storage cabin?


It's council land. Months and months ago they plonked two ugly containers on the grass without consulting the residents. 

They held the new front doors that all residents have to have fitted, but I heard that because they left them in a sealed container during the hot summer, many of them warped completely. 

Clearly the Brixton Booty lot have no right at all to stick their tacky sign on it.


----------



## AliceTrashton (Sep 23, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> lots of us feel more than uneasy. Sorry I can't join your group - I'm not on facebook.



I'm sorry! is there a way of making groups on here? or perhaps I should start a thread....


----------



## teuchter (Sep 23, 2014)

AliceTrashton said:


> I'm sorry! is there a way of making groups on here? or perhaps I should start a thread....


You should start a thread as the issues you raise have not yet been discussed on here.


----------



## choochi (Sep 23, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> This has just been discussed on bbc radio, did any urbs go?
> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...er-after-disastrous-brixton-show-9746959.html



I went. I think she made the mistake of starting with remixed versions of her classics with little in the way of introduction to them. It didn't allow for the crowd to warm up or get involved, people were struggling to work out which song she was doing. Poor sound didn't help. However, I actually liked the remixes. I thought she reinterpreted them well for a live show. She did get a bit of a boo when she went off and came back on with her guitar, I think people thought the show had finished though. 
I thought she sounded great on the acoustic MTV Unplugged bit, her voice is still great and she got better as the show went on, finishing with some Bob Marley and Fugees tracks. She was late, which was annoying, but not as late as Erykah Badu, when pretty much the whole crowd booed her.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 23, 2014)

editor said:


> The vanishing tube station artwork:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I liked the floor painting - made everyone look down for a change. I was there when one of those street cleaning machines went round and round in circles over it in the middle of the day - getting in the way of all the pedestrians. Why did they get rid so soon - I'm sure it would have worn off soon enough - was it some over zealous cleaner?


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Is Boris Johnson coming to Brixton Market on Thursday?



I should have asked him. Met him on his bike today.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

Nour Cash and Carry in Market row are selling these no to ISIS/ Against Sectarianism bracelets for £2. Proceeds go to charity.( They are also in green).


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 23, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I should have asked him. Met him on his bike today.


You should have nutted him!


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

AliceTrashton said:


> I'm sorry! is there a way of making groups on here? or perhaps I should start a thread....



If you go into the search Urban you will find the issues you bring up in your post are/ have been discussed here. 

Also check out Housing Action Lambeth and Southwark 

And Lambeth Housing Activists

I also rate the Brixton Society. 

Welcome to Urban


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> You should have nutted him!



He was behind me on Old Street and caught me up on the lights.

Had a chat about cycling in this lovely weather.

I really cannot have a go at a fellow cyclist on the road. Bad form.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

teuchter said:


> You should start a thread as the issues you raise have not yet been discussed on here.



She is new here and would not necessarily get your sense of humour.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 23, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> He was behind me on Old Street and caught me up on the lights.
> 
> Had a chat about cycling in this lovely weather.
> 
> I really cannot have a go at a fellow cyclist on the road. Bad form.


Not good enough Gramsci, A missed opportunity imo.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 23, 2014)

Got home from the South Lambeth library (a talk on the extraordinary house at 575 Wandsworth Road) only to find this leaflet on my mat:


I had to look up the Association of Community Organisations for Reform Now
This comes back to an American community group, which I think Gramsci had some info on in a previous post.

I am bemused.  I like the brand-name change from Coldharbour to Acorn.

Why can't they go the whole hog and revert to our proper local name of ANGELL?


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

CH1 said:


> For all the Chuka fans on this board:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have a problem with comments like this:




> Umunna says. “The harder thing is how we ensure that all of our companies are equipped to compete on the world stage.



Living in London ( like Chuka) I meet people from all parts of the world. I have no desire to "compete" with them. Ordinary people are all in the same boat trying to get by in a increasingly unpleasant globalised world. Its competition and rivalry that is part of the problem.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Got home from the South Lambeth library (a talk on the extraordinary house at 575 Wandsworth Road) only to find this leaflet on my mat:
> View attachment 61513
> View attachment 61514
> I had to look up the Association of Community Organisations for Reform Now
> ...



Its the same lot that featured in Brixton Buzz article.

No mention that this part of Camerons "Big Society". Not a good brand name now. 

Tricky Skills


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Got home from the South Lambeth library (a talk on the extraordinary house at 575 Wandsworth Road) only to find this leaflet on my mat:
> View attachment 61513
> View attachment 61514
> I had to look up the Association of Community Organisations for Reform Now
> ...



I am bemused as well. 

More than a brand name change. The original leaflet mention "London Community Action" as the organisation behind them. 

This has gone and now its now "Acorn". A completely different organisation. Maybe to distance themselves from Camerons "Big Society".

Tricky Skills


----------



## CH1 (Sep 23, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I have a problem with comments like this:
> _Umunna says. “The harder thing is how we ensure that all of our companies are equipped to compete on the world stage."_
> Living in London ( like Chuka) I meet people from all parts of the world. I have no desire to "compete" with them. Ordinary people are all in the same boat trying to get by in a increasingly unpleasant globalised world. Its competition and rivalry that is part of the problem.


He speaks their languange (City AM that is), and has been known to take City Boiz money (Ransquawk I believe - at least according to Private Eye).

Actually I thought he gave a good interview this morning on Radio 4 Today programme. Seemed able to defuse that extraordinarily strident Sarah Montague where many others have failed!


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 23, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Got home from the South Lambeth library (a talk on the extraordinary house at 575 Wandsworth Road) only to find this leaflet on my mat:
> View attachment 61513
> View attachment 61514
> I had to look up the Association of Community Organisations for Reform Now
> ...



Went back over my old posts and it was one of the Founders of Acorn that was critical of Camerons Community organisers.

So what Johny and Lee have done is more than rebrand themselves. They are now part of a group that is critical of what they were originally proposing. 

Tricky Skills


----------



## CH1 (Sep 23, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I am bemused as well.
> More than a brand name change. The original leaflet mention "London Community Action" as the organisation behind them.
> This has gone and now its now "Acorn". A completely different organisation. Maybe to distance themselves from Camerons "Big Society".
> Tricky Skills


Lee knocked on my door a week or so ago and asked if I had any issues - so I printed off a copy of my manifesto from the election.

He did promise a meeting soon - probably at Brixton East he said - but he did not own up to being part of the Big Society (I asked him directly).

Maybe we need to find out more about Community Organizations for Reform Now [it has a Z on Wikipedia]

Given that all the decisions about local services and resources are made by the councillors, I think the question is this - is ACORN trying to interpose itself as another layer between the electors and the elected administration?

I'm not quite sure how American politics works - but my guess is that you have the Mayor and his [crony] appointees, and then local councillors who are similar to what we call Parish Councillors in the UK with very limited remit.

I think if the British model is working properly, there should not be a need for a ginger group like ACORN. The likely losers if ACORN got going would be LJAG - since they would likely be competing for funding from the same sources.


----------



## Smick (Sep 24, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I have a problem with comments like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anyone who lives in London,I want them to be happy and healthy, regardless of their origin, but when it comes to businesses, manufacturing and providing services,I want them to compete and thrive on a global scale. What's wrong here is that we stopped competing in jobs which everyone can do the seventies.

In spite of our global economy and my friends living overseas, I'd be all on favour of jobs staying in London or relocating here, regardless of where else.


----------



## AliceTrashton (Sep 24, 2014)

teuchter said:


> You should start a thread as the issues you raise have not yet been discussed on here.


ok so i'm not down with 'forum lingo'....obviously I'm aware that people on here are concerned with this stuff otherwise I would't have posted, just wondered if there was a way to actually organise stuff not just have a rant....Acorn looks quite promising though


----------



## AliceTrashton (Sep 24, 2014)

or maybe not.... thanks for the heads up Gramsci


----------



## T & P (Sep 24, 2014)




----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 24, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I have a problem with comments like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't understand the "we are in a global race to the top" stuff that Cameron comes out with.Can anyone explain to me

1,Who's in this race
2,Where is the finishing line
3,What doe's the winner get
4,What happens to the losers
5,What happens when the race is over.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 24, 2014)

double post


----------



## leanderman (Sep 24, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I don't understand the "we are in a global race to the top" stuff that Cameron comes out with.Can anyone explain to me
> 
> 1,Who's in this race
> 2,Where is the finishing line
> ...



Exactly: The French don't seem to worry too much about racing, and have a pretty good time


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 24, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I have a problem with comments like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ian Martin, in today's _Guardian G2_, makes a lovely (and accurate, IMO) assessment of Chuka's speech at the Labour Conference as "...his smoothie estate-agent act".   He'll be uset that yet another attempt at gravitas has failed.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Sep 24, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> ILiving in London ( like Chuka) I meet people from all parts of the world. I have no desire to "compete" with them. Ordinary people are all in the same boat trying to get by in a increasingly unpleasant globalised world. Its competition and rivalry that is part of the problem.



fucking amen.


----------



## Smick (Sep 24, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I don't understand the "we are in a global race to the top" stuff that Cameron comes out with.Can anyone explain to me
> 
> 1,Who's in this race
> 2,Where is the finishing line
> ...


1 Us, France, Germany Italy
2 When Royal Mail gets owned by Deutsche Post and the profit is used to give the Germans a better postal service.
3 All our essential public services
4 Get to subsidise foreign governments.
5 Eternal servitude.

The train going through Brixton which stops is part owned by the French government. The one which doesn't is owned by Hong Kong. The 133 bus is run by a company shipping the profits to the Federal German Government. All our electric seems to be run by French, Germans, even Irish companies. Nobody makes anything, our entire economy is based on consumption. It all stinks.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 24, 2014)

Smick said:


> 1 Us, France, Germany Italy
> 2 When Royal Mail gets owned by Deutsche Post and the profit is used to give the Germans a better postal service.
> 3 All our essential public services
> 4 Get to subsidise foreign governments.
> ...


Tescos is totally British and seems to be well fucked up.

The fact that LT sold South London Buses to T Cowie, which morphed into Arriva and was then taken over by Deutsche Bahn is a function of stock market capitalism.

Not sure what the solution is. I presume you would advocate withdrawing from EU and total nationalisation?


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 25, 2014)

Smick said:


> Anyone who lives in London,I want them to be happy and healthy, regardless of their origin, but when it comes to businesses, manufacturing and providing services,I want them to compete and thrive on a global scale. What's wrong here is that we stopped competing in jobs which everyone can do the seventies.
> 
> In spite of our global economy and my friends living overseas, I'd be all on favour of jobs staying in London or relocating here, regardless of where else.



That is one way to look at it. 

Having just finished Capital volume one and seen the excellent film Pride there is another way. That is both practical and realizable.

Marx was prescient about the development of a global capitalist economy. 

The majority of people do not "compete" as they sell their labour. Its irrelevant who owns the business. 

Competing with workers from other parts of the world only serves the interests, in the end, of business owners. 

Who is the "we" you keep referring to? Is it the nation state? Competition between states in a capitalist framework is what leads to conflict.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 25, 2014)

AliceTrashton said:


> or maybe not.... thanks for the heads up Gramsci



Acorn seem ok to me.

Its just that the two community organisers were trained up as part of Camerons "Big Society" bollox. They reinvented themselves as Acorn due in no small part to the Brixton Buzz article. Irritating but I think they mean well.

If they really want to help the local community they could use there skills as part of an existing organisation.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 25, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ian Martin, in today's _Guardian G2_, makes a lovely (and accurate, IMO) assessment of Chuka's speech at the Labour Conference as "...his smoothie estate-agent act".   He'll be uset that yet another attempt at gravitas has failed.



Its depressing reading yet another article about how pointless these party conferences are.

This sounds like the future for Brixton under the one party state of Lambeth:



> From the smoking promontory you get a clear view of the New Manchester enabled by New Labour. Thrusting upwards around us, the stacked money boxes of luxury apartments and boutique offices. Translucent, grey, watery blue, algae green. Beetham Tower the tallest, a 47-storey USB stick. Here and there a few red Victorian buildings stranded by a long-receded tide of factory work and Methodism, their brickwork soft and crumbling. They gave up the ghost generations ago. They’ve been left as little parsley sprigs of heritage. Or assimilated by the boa constrictors of new development.



Sounds like the "Your Town Hall" development planned by Lambeth Labour.


----------



## Smick (Sep 25, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Tescos is totally British and seems to be well fucked up.
> 
> The fact that LT sold South London Buses to T Cowie, which morphed into Arriva and was then taken over by Deutsche Bahn is a function of stock market capitalism.
> 
> Not sure what the solution is. I presume you would advocate withdrawing from EU and total nationalisation?


No, I'd like a nationalised UK railway company to go to Germany, France, Hong Kong, Netherlands, whoever else is operating public transport in our city, and a few more countries beside, and run their railways and buses and repatriate the profits for the improvement of our services. Or else just have essential public services renationalised and run for the good of the people in the area it operates.

It's not even SNCF on their own operating public transport for profit here. RATP, the Parisien equivalent of TfL do as well.

There are laws that prevent UK public sector bodies from operating UK rail services, but not foreign ones.

When the Tories sold all our assets off, they sold an ideal of them being owned by the British public and the profits circulating internally instead of fucking off to Berlin.

Mark my words, the first sniff of a profitable Royal Mail and it will be bought out by a European nationalised postal system.


----------



## Smick (Sep 25, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> That is one way to look at it.
> 
> Having just finished Capital volume one and seen the excellent film Pride there is another way. That is both practical and realizable.
> 
> ...


For me the 'we' are the people who pay tax to the same authority. I dislike immigration control although don't know enough about it to make proper comment. Anybody working hard is welcome in a London, England or the UK in my mind.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 25, 2014)

Very nasty looking accident on Brixton road by Hilliard street. Motorbikes gone under a bus and looks like there has been a fire


----------



## dogmatique (Sep 25, 2014)

I fear there was a fatality, judging by the tarpaulin.


----------



## Winot (Sep 25, 2014)

Looks like there were two crashes, one on the southbound lane and further north another motorbike looked like it had gone into the back of a bus. Grim.


----------



## happyshopper (Sep 25, 2014)

Gentrification gone mad. There's a rumour that Prince Charles is visiting Brixton Village tonight. They are certainly putting out the green carpet.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

happyshopper said:


> Gentrification gone mad. There's a rumour that Prince Charles is visiting Brixton Village tonight. They are certainly putting out the green carpet.


His trip to the exclusive Brick Box project at the Angel (aka The Only Time The Shutters Came Down) and the Brady's community project didn't help much. Perhaps he'll prove the kiss of death there too.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2014)

Smick said:


> No, I'd like a nationalised UK railway company to go to Germany, France, Hong Kong, Netherlands, whoever else is operating public transport in our city, and a few more countries beside, and run their railways and buses and repatriate the profits for the improvement of our services. Or else just have essential public services renationalised and run for the good of the people in the area it operates.
> 
> It's not even SNCF on their own operating public transport for profit here. RATP, the Parisien equivalent of TfL do as well.
> 
> ...



Even setting aside arguments about retaining profits "in-country", there's an argument to be made for nationalisation of public transport on the basis that cross-subsidy has previously proven very useful in keeping marginal bus and train routes open - routes that privateers won't touch and have cancelled.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 25, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Even setting aside arguments about retaining profits "in-country", there's an argument to be made for nationalisation of public transport on the basis that cross-subsidy has previously proven very useful in keeping marginal bus and train routes open - routes that privateers won't touch and have cancelled.



Since when have you 'set aside an argument'!?


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 25, 2014)

happyshopper said:


> Gentrification gone mad. There's a rumour that Prince Charles is visiting Brixton Village tonight. They are certainly putting out the green carpet.



Fear ye not. Tulse Hill set the standard when Her Madge visited St Martin in the Fields girls school a few years ago.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 25, 2014)

happyshopper said:


> Gentrification gone mad. There's a rumour that Prince Charles is visiting Brixton Village tonight. They are certainly putting out the green carpet.


So why have they got a prominently displayed photo of Chuka shaking hands with Will Smith then?
Is this Prince Charles _Defender of the Faiths_?

I did ask the security what was going on and was told very abruptly that it was a private party.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 25, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> Fear ye not. Tulse Hill set the standard when Her Madge visited St Martin in the Fields girls school a few years ago.



They had the fresh prince visit too.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 25, 2014)

boohoo said:


> They had the fresh prince visit too.


Didn't Chuka and The Fresh Price have a coffee together at Federation?


----------



## Ms T (Sep 25, 2014)

Following two calls to the council, the rubbish has finally been removed from our street.  Yay!  By the end there were at least three matresses, some divans, lots of assorted wooden cabinets, a few bags of random rubbish, a toilet... Let's see how long it lasts before the flytippers are back....


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

So what is going on in the Village tonight? I heard from one of the traders that Boris was coming but "bottled it". ?!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 25, 2014)

Supposed to be Boris, but it got pulled apparently...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> Boris was coming but "bottled it". ?!



Is he gone sell it as a tonic?


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

It's all set up for the VIPs. 






http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/09/...rixton-village-tonight-but-youre-not-invited/


----------



## colacubes (Sep 25, 2014)

Someone said Prince Charles upthread.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 25, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Someone said Prince Charles upthread.



Met him once. Not the sharpest tool in the box.


----------



## T & P (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> It's all set up for the VIPs.
> http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/09/...rixton-village-tonight-but-youre-not-invited/


Private parties, whether thrown by gentrificating landlords or much-loved, well established local businesses serving the local community, tend to exclude those of us not invited to it, yes.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

T & P said:


> Private parties, whether thrown by gentrificating landlords or much-loved, well established local businesses serving the local community, tend to exclude those of us not invited to it, yes.


Thanks for that. Having the private VIP party in a sealed off area of the Village also serves as a reminder that it's not a public space, although I imagine many may labour under that misconception.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 25, 2014)

It's a deliagte of international business people with dull job titles, Boris was supposed to attend but pulled out. It's not so much a private party, just a load of suits making dull speeches. The businesses affected have had a nice pay off for the loss of trade from Market management.


----------



## T & P (Sep 25, 2014)

I'd be surprised if that many thought that. It is a private retail space at the end of the day.

But your being unable to resist having a dig at the thoroughly detested Village at every given opportunity did make me smile. Would Brixton Buzz be pushing the angle of us mere mortals "not being invited" to a private event in Brixton if it it happened to be hosted at, say, the beloved Kaff or Albert?


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 25, 2014)

If it makes you feel better, none of us traders were invited either. And I bet they have free booze.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

T & P said:


> I'd be surprised if that many thought that. It is a private retail space at the end of the day.


I believe that there's a growing misconception about many privately owned areas/squares that appear to be public. There's been some threads on that very topic here.


T & P said:


> .Would Brixton Buzz be pushing the angle of us mere mortals "not being invited" to a private event in Brixton if it it happened to be hosted at, say, the beloved Kaff or Albert?


What the fuck has Brixton Buzz or the Albert got to do this? We don't host champagne shindigs for politicians or VIPs, we don't own any property, we're not a massive multinational business, we don't seal off areas from the public, and we certainly don't host any private parties anywhere. What money we make we give away to local worthy causes.

I'm getting really fucked off with all this irrelevant, petty and snide personal shit. It just disrupts threads for no good purpose.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> If it makes you feel better, none of us traders were invited either. And I bet they have free booze.


Loads of it, I bet.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> Loads of it, I bet.


My mole is currently in deep cover inside, I will report back at the earliest opportunity.


----------



## elmpp (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> It's all set up for the VIPs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Belated yawn


----------



## T & P (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> I believe that there's a growing misconception about many privately owned areas/squares that appear to be public. There's been some threads on that very topic here.
> What the fuck has Brixton Buzz or the Albert got to do this? We don't host champagne shindigs for politicians or VIPs, we don't own any property, we're not a massive multinational business, we don't seal off areas from the public, and we certainly don't host any private parties anywhere. What money we make we give away to local worthy causes.
> 
> I'm getting really fucked off with all this irrelevant, petty and snide personal shit. It just disrupts threads for no good purpose.


It's not personal at all Editor. It is merely an observation that your profound dislike of The Village appears to get the better of you sometimes. Because the "you are not invited" remark seems an extremely bizarre thing to say- of course you and I are not invited to a private event. It is private.

My point was, would you really have commented negatively on a business you like holding a private party? I'm not a fan of the Village and don't care much about it, but there is such thing as undeserved criticism.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

T & P said:


> It's not personal at all Editor. It is merely an observation that your profound dislike of The Village appears to get the better of you sometimes. Because the "you are not invited" remark seems an extremely bizarre thing to say- of course you and I are not invited to a private event. It is private.
> 
> My point was, would you really have commented negatively on a business you like holding a private party? I'm not a fan of the Village and don't care much about it, but there is such thing as undeserved criticism.


I don't have a 'profound dislike' of the Village. In fact, I know many of its traders personally. 

And you are *completely overreacting* to what was meant as a throwaway comment. You're not the only one to do this, but it it's really tedious to see things I do away from this site - like Brixton Buzz or my nights at the Albert - being constantly thrown in my face to score some cheap point or another.

People like you can sit snug knowing that what you do offline won't be brought up to prove irrelevant, petty, personal points yet I'm supposed to take it day after day. And it fucks me off. It's disruptive and does nothing to make these threads more useful or these boards more inviting to new posters. And right now, another thread is going off the rails because of it.

*cue the usual suspects joining the fray.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> I believe that there's a growing misconception about many privately owned areas/squares that appear to be public.


Do you have any evidence for this in relation to The Village? I really can't think of a single visitor who I know who might think it an affront for the owners to close it for a private event on one mid week evening in the several years since it opened. Mildly inconvenient perhaps. 

And obviously, it's a great one-off for all the neighbouring restaurants and bars who will benefit from the custom of anyone who turned up not knowing it was closed.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Do you have any evidence for this in relation to The Village? I really can't think of a single visitor who I know who might think it an affront for the owners to close it for a private event on one mid week evening in the several years since it opened. Mildly inconvenient perhaps.


No, I haven't conducted a survey on Village visitors. Have you? 

But there certainly is some confusion arising from the increasing privatisation of public space. Here. Read this: 


> Over the past decade, large parts of Britain's cities have been redeveloped as privately-owned estates, extending corporate control over some of the country's busiest squares and thoroughfares. These developments are no longer simply enclosed malls like Westfield in White City or business districts like Broadgate in the City of London – *they are spaces open to the sky which appear to be entirely public to casual passers-by.*
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/11/granary-square-privately-owned-public-space





Rushy said:


> I really can't think of a single visitor who I know who might think it an affront for the owners to close it for a private event on one mid week evening in the several years since it opened. Mildly inconvenient perhaps.


And off you go again, making up a daft strawman. Grow up, ffs.


----------



## elmpp (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> I don't have a 'profound dislike' of the Village. In fact, I know many of its traders personally.
> 
> And you are *completely overreacting* to what was meant as a throwaway comment. You're not the only one to do this, but it it's really tedious to see things I do away from this site - like Brixton Buzz or my nights at the Albert - being constantly thrown in my face to score some cheap point or another.
> 
> ...


Victim yawn


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

And, notably, the name 'Village' suggests that it is indeed common land. 


> At a public meeting last year, the mayor of London said: "It's not a concept that I find people readily grasp but what I want is an atmosphere of trust and neighbourliness and a village atmosphere in parts of our city."
> 
> But villages always included commonly owned public land, Heath said. "In the archetypal feudal village there was always that space of common land where everyone had the right to graze their pigs and behave in a sensible way. There wasn't the sense this was the feudal landlord's land. This was common land."
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/11/granary-square-privately-owned-public-space


----------



## T & P (Sep 25, 2014)

If I mentioned the Kaff and The Albert is because the emphasis on the headline seemed well wide of the mark to me, and I genuinely wondered if it would also be an issue if a venue you liked held a private party, because I myself don't see it being a bad thing at all.

But yes, I agree it is not a massive issue, and perhaps I'm making too much of it. Certainly not out on a mission to wind you up anyway.


----------



## Manter (Sep 25, 2014)

But it's clearly an arcade- it's not an open space. I agree with you about public squares that turn out not to be public being very odd and a worrying development, but I've always assumed arcades are private- they have gates and stuff too.... They aren't thorough fairs or rights of way or whatever. I thought they had always been like that, right back to the grand old Victorian arcades and covered markets you find in northern towns (and quite possibly elsewhere, I just know the northern ones)

E2a editor


----------



## Rushy (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> And, notably, the name 'Village' suggests that it is indeed common land.


I actually can't quite believe you said that. That argument is utterly hilarious.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

Manter said:


> But it's clearly an arcade- it's not an open space. I agree with you about public squares that turn out not to be public being very odd and a worrying development, but I've always assumed arcades are private- they have gates and stuff too.... They aren't thorough fairs or rights of way or whatever. I thought they had always been like that, right back to the grand old Victorian arcades and covered markets you find in northern towns (and quite possibly elsewhere, I just know the northern ones)
> 
> E2a editor


I can understand how arcades may be private (although was Granville Arcade ever owned by the council?) but I'm only referring to the *open area* outside.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I actually can't quite believe you said that. That argument is utterly hilarious.


Try reading the whole article and you might learn something. Why do you think they chose the name of Brixton _Village_. Any ideas?


----------



## Manter (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> I can understand how arcades may be private (although was Granville Arcade ever owned by the council?) but I'm only referring to the open area outside.


Ah, I just assumed it was private because their are gates and it's part of the street frontage, iyswim.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

It's also worth noting that the open area outside Brixton Village didn't used to be surrounded by fences and gates:


----------



## Manter (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> It's also worth noting that the open area outside Brixton Village didn't used to be surrounded by fences and gates:


I didn't know that!


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

Manter said:


> I didn't know that!


The locked gates are a relatively recent thing, just like the patrolling security guards.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 25, 2014)

btw it's not the first Brixton village in the last forty years...


----------



## madolesance (Sep 25, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Do you have any evidence for this in relation to The Village? I really can't think of a single visitor who I know who might think it an affront for the owners to close it for a private event on one mid week evening in the several years since it opened. Mildly inconvenient perhaps.
> 
> And obviously, it's a great one-off for all the neighbouring restaurants and bars who will benefit from the custom of anyone who turned up not knowing it was closed.



It's just the court yard that's closed, the rest is open as normal.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

No gates or fences in this 1964 view, either:






Salvation Army beat combo The Joystrings rock Brixton Village, 1964


----------



## Rushy (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> Try reading the whole article and you might learn something. Why do you think they chose the name of Brixton _Village_. Any ideas?


I read it. I cringed. Now that I know it is only the forecourt which is closed my toes are curling.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> *cue the usual suspects joining the fray.



It can be quite amusing watching them trying to land something resembling a punch, and usually failing dismally.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Since when have you 'set aside an argument'!?



Nope. Didn't land.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 25, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Do you have any evidence for this in relation to The Village? I really can't think of a single visitor who I know who might think it an affront for the owners to close it for a private event on one mid week evening in the several years since it opened. Mildly inconvenient perhaps.



Who's mentioned affront? No-one but you. You're flailing.



> And obviously, it's a great one-off for all the neighbouring restaurants and bars who will benefit from the custom of anyone who turned up not knowing it was closed.



So obvious, one wonders why you bothered to say it...


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> Try reading the whole article and you might learn something. Why do you think they chose the name of Brixton _Village_. Any ideas?



It was renamed Brixton Village during the time of Brixton Challenge in the 90s.

(Brixton Challenge was government funded initiative to regenerate areas of inner cities post riots.  )

I think the idea of renaming it was to reinvent the market as somewhere for everyone. Similar to what you say in previous post about the idea of common spaces open to all. Twenty years later that vision has been forgotten.


----------



## boohoo (Sep 25, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> It was renamed Brixton Village during the time of Brixton Challenge in the 90s.
> 
> (Brixton Challenge was government funded initiative to regenerate areas of inner cities post riots.  )
> 
> I think the idea of renaming it was to reinvent the market as somewhere for everyone. Similar to what you say in previous post about the idea of common spaces open to all. Twenty years later that vision has been forgotten.



There was a Brixton village receiving funding before the 90s.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 25, 2014)

Was all that public money invested so there would be places the ordinary public could no longer afford to go?


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 25, 2014)

boohoo said:


> There was a Brixton village receiving funding before the 90s.



I have been trying to google to find when name was changed to Brixton Village. So far without success.

I know Granville Arcade and Market Row both received Brixton Challenge money for redecorating etc. 

I am going from what I remember. 

Can you find reference for when it was renamed?

As I am sure it was related to Brixton Challenge.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 25, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> Was all that public money invested so there would be places the ordinary public could no longer afford to go?



Ritzy was redeveloped with Brixton Challenge grant. I no longer see it as affordable.

The vision for Brixton Challenge was this:



> But anger at the police is coupled with deprivation and lack of opportunities. There are deep resentments about the lack of jobs and social and recreational facilities in Brixton. No one wants to see a repeat of 1981 or 1985 riots. And to prevent that, this Government gave pounds 37.5m as a grant to set up Brixton City Challenge in 1993, to regenerate the area. I am a director - one of four who represent community organisations - on the City Challenge. It had a grand founding vision:
> 
> "Our programme will place people and communities at the heart of the initiative. The investment of pounds 189m will create around 1,650 new jobs and it is estimated that more than 2,500 local people will attain recognised qualifications. Communities will flourish in good homes, be healthy and safe, and participate in the changes that will take place. Young people will grow up in an attractive and prosperous environment and will build further prosperity in Brixton, Lambeth in London and further afield."



From A Dream Unfulfilled.

The title sums up what has happened long term.

The article says private match funding was deterred by inefficiency of public authority. I think in retrospect its more that private funders did not want to take the risk at that time. Brixton was still considered a difficult area. 

There is an argument that  Government led regeneration leads gentrification. Private developers let government take the risk first.


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> I don't have a 'profound dislike' of the Village. <snip>



Oooh you big fibber!


----------



## leanderman (Sep 26, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> Was all that public money invested so there would be places the ordinary public could no longer afford to go?



That's not true is it? (Without going into KFC v Honest arguments again)


----------



## boohoo (Sep 26, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I have been trying to google to find when name was changed to Brixton Village. So far without success.
> 
> I know Granville Arcade and Market Row both received Brixton Challenge money for redecorating etc.
> 
> ...



It probably was under the Brixton Challenge however in the 1980s there was a group called Brixton village working in St Matthews - I do wonder whether the two were connected.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 26, 2014)

Manter said:


> Ah, I just assumed it was private because their are gates and it's part of the street frontage, iyswim.


It's worth remembering that up until the market's recent reinvention, the gates on that forecourt were closed every day when the market shut at 6pm and all day Sunday. It's now in use all weekend and until 11 or later most nights. It's much more accessible than it has been at any time in the last 20 yrs (and probably much longer).


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 26, 2014)

I really don't see what the big deal is, public and private spaces are used for events all the time


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 26, 2014)

I remember doing an event years ago at Billinsgate Market and an irate commuter nearly getting himself arrested because he got so angry and aggressive that he wan't allowed to take his usual shortcut across private land. The private land was generally left open and commuters used it, but legally it was private land. There had been notices up for weeks that it would be closed for a few days and there would be no access.


----------



## sparkybird (Sep 26, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Met him once. Not the sharpest tool in the box.



Not sure about that, but I do vividly remember his sausage like fingers from the handshake.....


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> I really don't see what the big deal is, public and private spaces are used for events all the time


It's not such a big deal - my post was just a daily observation - although some here seem determined to make it A Very Big Issue Indeed. 

Mind you, I think the issue of the growing privatisation and fencing off of open spaces is of growing concern in general terms.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Sep 26, 2014)

.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Sep 26, 2014)

wrt the Villages Of Brixton - when I moved into my first flat in Effra Rd the estate agents urged me to give 'Effra rd, Effra Village' as my address. (I didn't) and then when I moved to Mayall Road I was assured that my address was Mayall Rd, Poets Corner.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 26, 2014)

OvalhouseDB said:


> wrt the Villages Of Brixton - when I moved into my first flat in Effra Rd the estate agents urged me to give 'Effra rd, Effra Village' as my address. (I didn't) and then when I moved to Mayall Road I was assured that my address was Mayall Rd, Poets Corner.


I live on Mayall Rd and have never heard it referred to as Poet's Corner.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 26, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I live on Mayall Rd and have never heard it referred to as Poet's Corner.


Maybe it's about time that it should be:




> Whenever I'm near tah the theatre


----------



## teuchter (Sep 26, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I live on Mayall Rd and have never heard it referred to as Poet's Corner.


I don't live on Mayall Rd but have often heard that area referred to as Poet's Corner


----------



## Rushy (Sep 26, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I don't live on Mayall Rd but have often heard that area referred to as Poet's Corner


I thought it specifically referred to the toast rack of roads named after poets - Milton, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Spencer - which Mayall borders?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 26, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I thought it specifically referred to the toast rack of roads named after poets - Milton, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Spencer - which Mayall borders?


I'd say it's part of that little area (it joins two of those roads) and it's legitimate to describe it as being within poet's corner. Or should that be poets' corner?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 26, 2014)

Chaucer was the first poet to be buried at poets corner in Westminster abbey,Maybe a link there!


----------



## boohoo (Sep 26, 2014)

I don't live in a village, I live in a hamlet. I am surprised the estate agents haven't re-branded it. 

Was signing tenancy agreement with land lady and we were avoiding using the letting agent. Overall the letting agent got 700 off her and 300 off us for the letting of this place and she hasn't even got the paperwork!


----------



## Ms T (Sep 26, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I thought it specifically referred to the toast rack of roads named after poets - Milton, Shakespeare, Chaucer, Spencer - which Mayall borders?


It's not-quite-a-poet and cheaper as a result.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 26, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I don't live on Mayall Rd but have often heard that area referred to as Poet's Corner


It's been referred to as Poets corner for donkeys don't know when the estate agents picked it up.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Sep 26, 2014)

Poet's Corner stops at Railton Road.


----------



## Manter (Sep 27, 2014)

Brixton bootie have messaged local mum's group on Facebook to say it's free to pitch tomorrow...


----------



## blameless77 (Sep 27, 2014)

Rushy said:


> It's worth remembering that up until the market's recent reinvention, the gates on that forecourt were closed every day when the market shut at 6pm and all day Sunday. It's now in use all weekend and until 11 or later most nights. It's much more accessible than it has been at any time in the last 20 yrs (and probably much longer).




In contrast to that, it's worth noting that Asc artists (who have studios inside) used to have 24 hour access to the market. Now it's opening hours only and the rent has doubled!


----------



## Rushy (Sep 27, 2014)

blameless77 said:


> In contrast to that, it's worth noting that Asc artists (who have studios inside) used to have 24 hour access to the market. Now it's opening hours only and the rent has doubled!


True.  The ASC / market relationship has been pretty fraught for some time, hasn't it. But that's a commercial landlord tenant relationship and there are few amongst us here who genuinely understand the ins and outs of the agreements they have both entered into / developed over time. In contrast to that, other tenants have had their hours hugely extended at their request and opening hours have been more or less standardised. Much as it would be nice for ASC to have 24hr access and not have rents go up over time it has very little to do with public access to private space.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 27, 2014)

blameless77 said:


> In contrast to that, it's worth noting that Asc artists (who have studios inside) used to have 24 hour access to the market. Now it's opening hours only and the rent has doubled!



Do you know why this has happened?

I know the rent went up.

There is less and less artists studio space in London. There are a few companies who supply artists studios. They get short leases on old warehouse/ industrial space. Now in central London its all being taken back for redevelopment.

There is now a lot of artists chasing less (affordable) space. So its easy for owners of market to hike up the rent and lay down the conditions of use they want as they know there is an increasing shortage.

London will be a culturally poorer place in a few years time as former artists studios end up as swanky apartments.


----------



## Tolpuddle (Sep 28, 2014)

I see Lambeth are advertising for a new chief exec.

https://ig24.i-grasp.com/fe/tpl_lbl...3&c=567649543548&pagestamp=serujkuymilbpficoi

I quote..
The person who will replace Derrick needs to continue that change, and understand the vision and challenges of Lambeth. How we respond to a cut of 50% funding, attract investment and manage growth while supporting our diverse and complex communities will determine the future of the borough.

Or possibly rephrased, how we respond to a cut of 50% funding, and what services we slash to get there.

Or am I cynical?


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Sep 28, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> Poet's Corner stops at Railton Road.



I love the names of the roads at the top of Shakespeare Roads - especially Pablo Neruda Close - but they aren't part of Poet's Corner by any stretch, so that fits with your theory.

Zooming in to check the names I noticed a "Dylan Road" on the other side of the railway:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...2!3m1!1s0x48760470f6b63a55:0x709cc2fed46d117e

Which reminded me of this blog post about Dylan Thomas who used to live on Milkwood Road & drink at the Half Moon:
http://jontregenna.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/under-milk-wood-se24.html


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2014)

The Dogstar bouncers were fucking amazing last night when they looked after someone who had collapsed in the chicken shop opposite.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> I love the names of the roads at the top of Shakespeare Roads - especially Pablo Neruda Close - but they aren't part of Poet's Corner by any stretch, so that fits with your theory.
> 
> Zooming in to check the names I noticed a "Dylan Road" on the other side of the railway:
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Dylan Rd, London SE24 0HL/@51.4609127,-0.1024645,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x48760470f6b63a55:0x709cc2fed46d117e
> ...


Good find!



> 'Samuel's innumerable friends included the late Dylan Thomas whom he knew well. ‘Dylan used to come to watch the London Welsh games,' he recalls, 'and when, after the match, the teams would gather, as rugger clubs do, for a few pints at the old Half Moon Hotel at Herne Hill, Dylan would be there adding lustre to the gathering. He was a great conversationalist.'


----------



## Winot (Sep 28, 2014)

The good news is that Lambeth now allow you to buy visitor parking permits online.

The bad news is that I ordered some over a month ago and they have still not been sent out .  

I assumed they had been stolen from the post and only received a response from Lambeth Parking to admit the position after making a complaint, chasing up twice, and then complaining to my councillor (and I've no idea whether that was the thing that prompted a reply as my councillor hasn't replied either) .


----------



## colacubes (Sep 28, 2014)

Winot said:


> The good news is that Lambeth now allow you to buy visitor parking permits online.
> 
> The bad news is that I ordered some over a month ago and they have still not been sent out .
> 
> I assumed they had been stolen from the post and only received a response from Lambeth Parking to admit the position after making a complaint, chasing up twice, and then complaining to my councillor (and I've no idea whether that was the thing that prompted a reply as my councillor hasn't replied either) .



They might not have been.  I ordered some online some time ago and they took so long I had to go to the centre and buy some anyway.  In the end they turned up 3.5 weeks after I ordered them and I have enough parking permits to probably last me the next 4 years


----------



## Winot (Sep 28, 2014)

'Unlike'


----------



## sparkybird (Sep 28, 2014)

I noticed when I was working for a customer in Lewisham that they get 10 free 1 hour permits a year when they buy a residents permit - why can't Lambeth do the same?

(this is a rhetorical question, obviously)


----------



## Rushy (Sep 28, 2014)

Winot said:


> The good news is that Lambeth now allow you to buy visitor parking permits online.
> 
> The bad news is that I ordered some over a month ago and they have still not been sent out .
> 
> I assumed they had been stolen from the post and only received a response from Lambeth Parking to admit the position after making a complaint, chasing up twice, and then complaining to my councillor (and I've no idea whether that was the thing that prompted a reply as my councillor hasn't replied either) .


At least you were able to order them. I've been on the electoral register and paying council tax at this address since 2003 and their credit checking system can't identify me as eligible.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Sep 28, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> Poet's Corner stops at Railton Road.


 But Shakespeare Rd across Railton and continues to the 'modern, international, female and black'' poets ribbon development, Walt Whitman, Pablo Neruda, Louise Bennett, Derek Walcott, Alice Walker, James Joyce etc.

With Mayall sandwiched in the middle.

But I agree, everyone knows where Poets corner really is and it more likely encompasses Regent and Hurst st.

Anyway it was Estate Agentish nonsense.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 28, 2014)

Winot said:


> The good news is that Lambeth now allow you to buy visitor parking permits online.
> 
> The bad news is that I ordered some over a month ago and they have still not been sent out :.



I know a blackmarket source if you need them urgently.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 28, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I know a blackmarket source if you need them urgently.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 28, 2014)

Winot said:


> The good news is that Lambeth now allow you to buy visitor parking permits online.
> 
> The bad news is that I ordered some over a month ago and they have still not been sent out .
> 
> I assumed they had been stolen from the post and only received a response from Lambeth Parking to admit the position after making a complaint, chasing up twice, and then complaining to my councillor (and I've no idea whether that was the thing that prompted a reply as my councillor hasn't replied either) .


We had to ring up after about 3 weeks and they acknowledged that they were sitting in the office and no one had put them in the post.  It's supposed to take 7 working days and they positively encourage you to apply online.  Utterly fucking useless.


----------



## Manter (Sep 28, 2014)

Someone has stolen a (full) garden waste bag from outside our house


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 28, 2014)

Manter said:


> Someone has stolen a (full) garden waste bag from outside our house



wow really?  I'll put ours out then..


----------



## Manter (Sep 28, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> wow really?  I'll put ours out then..


It's a bit weird. And irritating as I'll have to buy a new bag 

But what on earth can someone want with grass cuttings, weeds and some chopped up bits of holm oak


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 28, 2014)

Manter said:


> Someone has stolen a (full) garden waste bag from outside our house


It certainly wasn't Lambeth !


----------



## nagapie (Sep 28, 2014)

Winot said:


> The good news is that Lambeth now allow you to buy visitor parking permits online.
> 
> The bad news is that I ordered some over a month ago and they have still not been sent out .
> 
> I assumed they had been stolen from the post and only received a response from Lambeth Parking to admit the position after making a complaint, chasing up twice, and then complaining to my councillor (and I've no idea whether that was the thing that prompted a reply as my councillor hasn't replied either) .



I am currently in dispute with Lambeth over parking. How much does annual residents' parking cost vs visitors' permits?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 28, 2014)

There seems to be plenty of people making a pound note from parking bays.,,

http://www.yourparkingspace.co.uk/lambeth-parking-spaces-and-garages-to-rent


----------



## Ms T (Sep 28, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I am currently in dispute with Lambeth over parking. How much does annual residents' parking cost vs visitors' permits?


The cost of an annual permit varies depending on the CO2 emission of your car. Visitors' permits are £22 for 5 and you're allowed 50 per year (10 books).


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## Winot (Sep 29, 2014)

Ms T said:


> The cost of an annual permit varies depending on the CO2 emission of your car. Visitors' permits are £22 for 5 and you're allowed 50 per year (10 books).



Yeah our annual permit is cheap as chips because we've got a Toyota Pious. That permit arrived within days. 

Have just got an email to say our permits have been posted. Ordered them 26 August.


----------



## Winot (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I know a blackmarket source if you need them urgently.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

Ms T said:


> The cost of an annual permit varies depending on the CO2 emission of your car. Visitors' permits are £22 for 5 and you're allowed 50 per year (10 books).



This 50 limit can be a problem.


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## nagapie (Sep 29, 2014)

Winot said:


> Yeah our annual permit is cheap as chips because we've got a Toyota Pious. That permit arrived within days.
> 
> Have just got an email to say our permits have been posted. Ordered them 26 August.



Do you mind if I ask how much, I'm trying to get a sense of what it costs?


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> This 50 limit can be a problem.


Which zone ya got?


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## Winot (Sep 29, 2014)

nagapie said:


> Do you mind if I ask how much, I'm trying to get a sense of what it costs?



Actually I'm wrong - it has gone up substantially. £117 for a year. It's the car tax that's the cheap one (£10).


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## Winot (Sep 29, 2014)

Incidentally I appreciate my complaints are a bit #firstworldproblems when there are people in the borough visiting food banks. And I've really no objection to paying for parking. Lambeth still need to get their shit together though.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

nagapie said:


> Do you mind if I ask how much, I'm trying to get a sense of what it costs?


Up to £260 a year.
Prices here


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## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Which zone ya got?



QR


----------



## Peanut Monkey (Sep 29, 2014)

Winot said:


> The good news is that Lambeth now allow you to buy visitor parking permits online.
> 
> The bad news is that I ordered some over a month ago and they have still not been sent out .
> 
> I assumed they had been stolen from the post and only received a response from Lambeth Parking to admit the position after making a complaint, chasing up twice, and then complaining to my councillor (and I've no idea whether that was the thing that prompted a reply as my councillor hasn't replied either) .



Both times I've renewed my motorbike residents parking permit online Lambeth have sent the wrong one out (Motorbike permits are round like a tax disc, whereas they keep sending me the square sticky car windscreen type).

When I phoned the Parking Services department to explain the mistake the response was "Oh, I didn't even know we did those." Which, I suspect, is the problem.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> QR


Humph.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

Winot said:


> Incidentally I appreciate my complaints are a bit #firstworldproblems when there are people in the borough visiting food banks. And I've really no objection to paying for parking. Lambeth still need to get their shit together though.


I wonder about the amount of human resource the council diverts from other matters by making its residents jump though never ending hoops. Not that it's just the council who do so, but they do so with impressive consistency.


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## Manter (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I wonder about the amount of human resource the council diverts from other matters by making its residents jump though never ending hoops. Not that it's just the council who do so, but they do so with l consistency.


Sorting out stuff like this takes investment- money, time and skills. ( set up a process and/or system, train people to use it, etc. ) They don't have  any of that- some of which isn't their fault, but it's become a vicious circle, as they get more dysfunctional they are less likely to attract skilled staff who may have a chance of cutting through the dysfunction, so they waste more and more money... There must be some good people in amongst all that chaos.... I just feel very sorry for them. It must be hell!


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## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Humph.



Blackmarketeer provides for all zones!


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

Manter said:


> Sorting out stuff like this takes investment- money, time and skills. ( set up a process and/or system, train people to use it, etc. ) They don't have  any of that- some of which isn't their fault, but it's become a vicious circle, as they get more dysfunctional they are less likely to attract skilled staff who may have a chance of cutting through the dysfunction, so they waste more and more money... There must be some good people in amongst all that chaos.... I just feel very sorry for them. It must be hell!


To a point. But aren't things like permits farmed out to private contractors?

I feel sorry for them to a point but I don't _just _feel sorry for them. I feel quite a lot of resentment too. Particularly since they often take such an aggressive, inflexible and punitive approach towards any transgression (often perceived rather than actual).


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Blackmarketeer provides for all zones!


He/she's obviously not the only one as I have now been sorted out by a kindly Urb!


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## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I feel sorry for them to a point but I don't _just _feel sorry for them. I feel quite a lot of resentment too. Particularly since they often take such an aggressive, inflexible and punitive approach towards any transgression (often perceived rather than actual).


That's mean to say that about Lambeth 
Next you'll be suggesting that they might use questionable fire safety surveys as a means to throw people out of their homes at short notice.


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## fortyplus (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> To a point. But aren't things like permits farmed out to private contractors?


Even less likely to invest in the necessary


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## Winot (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> To a point. But aren't things like permits farmed out to private contractors?



In my case (if the emails are to be believed) it took exactly a month for Lambeth to approve my vouchers. They were then sent to the contractor who dispatched them to me the next working day (they say).


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## Smick (Sep 29, 2014)

Why the hell do they charge you based on your emissions for your car parking space. Most parked cars which I have ever seen have the engine turned off and are therefore emitting nothing whatsoever. We have a major pain in the arse in Tulse Hill because we don't have residents parking, all manner of people show up to park for the day and walk to the station. Tulse Hill is the first Thameslink station not to have residents parking. But I know that if they were to implement it, I would be hit with another massive charge because my car is 12 years old and doesn't have any of these modern filters on it. While my car can just about fit four adults, it goes through petrol like there's no tomorrow and my road tax is something like £250.

If I had the money, I would buy some high efficiency, 3 cyl diesel thing, minimal emissions, cost me next to nothing to run and then I'd set fire to the old one in the middle of the road to offset any environmental benefit from the new car. Although I think having a new car made would do that anyway. But just to be sure.


----------



## Winot (Sep 29, 2014)

Smick said:


> Why the hell do they charge you based on your emissions for your car parking space.



Take a guess.


----------



## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

Smick said:


> Why the hell do they charge you based on your emissions for your car parking space. Most parked cars which I have ever seen have the engine turned off and are therefore emitting nothing whatsoever. .



Not sure that is the point and, in any case, lots of people inexplicably sit in their cars and vans with their engines on and no amount of frowning from me will stop them.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

Smick said:


> Why the hell do they charge you based on your emissions for your car parking space. Most parked cars which I have ever seen have the engine turned off and are therefore emitting nothing whatsoever. We have a major pain in the arse in Tulse Hill because we don't have residents parking, all manner of people show up to park for the day and walk to the station. Tulse Hill is the first Thameslink station not to have residents parking. But I know that if they were to implement it, I would be hit with another massive charge because my car is 12 years old and doesn't have any of these modern filters on it. While my car can just about fit four adults, it goes through petrol like there's no tomorrow and my road tax is something like £250.
> 
> If I had the money, I would buy some high efficiency, 3 cyl diesel thing, minimal emissions, cost me next to nothing to run and then I'd set fire to the old one in the middle of the road to offset any environmental benefit from the new car. Although I think having a new car made would do that anyway. But just to be sure.


Get rid of your car altogether, and spend the money you save on occasional use of a car club car when you genuinely can't use public transport. Then petition Lambeth to install one of those bike hangars in place of the space where your rusty old machine currently sits idle, and spread the happiness to other cyclists on your street.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Get rid of your car altogether, and spend the money you save on occasional use of a car club car when you genuinely can't use public transport. Then petition Lambeth to install one of those bike hangars in place of the space where your rusty old machine currently sits idle, and spread the happiness to other cyclists on your street.


I know someone who petitioned for one of those hangers - she nagged the council for ages. It was installed whilst she was away on a long weekend and by the time she returned all the places were taken .


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## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I know someone who petitioned for one of those hangers - she nagged the council for ages. It was installed whilst she was away on a long weekend and by the time she returned all the places were taken .



And it appears you have to pay for each slot inside - we have five stupid bicycles that are a right pain to store.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> And it appears you have to pay for each slot inside - we have five stupid bicycles that are a right pain to store.


It's about £45 / year - which I think is ok value if you need the space and it's just your bike. As much as I like the idea, putting one or two of these on every street is just pissing in the wind. Of one bank of ten racks, four slots have been taken from one house converted into flats and two other slots are neighbour's kids bikes - presumably the parents have a spot or two as well. So that leaves 2-4 spaces between the rest of the roughly 200 flats on the street.


----------



## Smick (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Not sure that is the point and, in any case, lots of people inexplicably sit in their cars and vans with their engines on and no amount of frowning from me will stop them.


Well Lambeth charge for parking based on co2 /km and someone parked with their engine on isn't doing any km so it's still a nonsense to charge based on emissions.


----------



## paolo (Sep 29, 2014)

If the aim is to provide an incentive to have a less polluting vehicle, it makes sense.

Which of course then raises the question about charging to use a bike shelter.

Not a very coherent policy.

I'd stick with the emissions 'discount' for vehicles, and make the bike shelters free.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> It's about £45 / year - which I think is ok value if you need the space and it's just your bike. As much as I like the idea, putting one or two of these on every street is just pissing in the wind. Of one bank of ten racks, four slots have been taken from one house converted into flats and two other slots are neighbour's kids bikes - presumably the parents have a spot or two as well. So that leaves 2-4 spaces between the rest of the roughly 200 flats on the street.


Do you have to use an allocated hanger? There are several around that seem unused, noticeably on roads off of Stockwell road.


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## Winot (Sep 29, 2014)

paolo said:


> If the aim is to provide an incentive to have a less polluting vehicle, it makes sense.
> 
> Which of course then raises the question about charging to use a bike shelter.
> 
> ...



I'd say it has a dual objective: to provide an incentive to have a less polluting vehicle and to raise revenue.


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## paolo (Sep 29, 2014)

Depends on whether one views it as a discount for reduced emissions or a premium for increased


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

paolo said:


> If the aim is to provide an incentive to have a less polluting vehicle, it makes sense.
> 
> Which of course then raises the question about charging to use a bike shelter.
> 
> ...


As much as I like them if you can get a space, the new bike shelters are not going to change a thing. It costs thousands of pounds to fit each shelter and they are immediately taken by people who already own bikes.  And of the people I know who have spaces in them, whilst some use their bikes every day, others just want somewhere to keep them for occasional use. It would be years before they have them on every street and only then will they look at multiple ones per street. A street of 100 houses mostly converted into flats will have 200-250 households so the number of racks needed to make even a dent in the bike store demand is huge.  I reckon it would be more effective to subsidise Bromptons (ok - they're pricey) or other folding bikes which can be kept in the house.


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

It seems you can request a bike hanger,,,
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/parking-t...le-parking-scheme-guide#request-a-cycle-stand


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> It seems you can request a bike hanger,,,
> http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/parking-t...le-parking-scheme-guide#request-a-cycle-stand


You can - and you get an email back saying that there is huge demand and they have no budget but will consider your request when they have more funds.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Do you have to use an allocated hanger? There are several around that seem unused, noticeably on roads off of Stockwell road.


Yes - you get allocated a rack in a particular hanger.


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> It's about £45 / year - which I think is ok value if you need the space and it's just your bike. As much as I like the idea, putting one or two of these on every street is just pissing in the wind. Of one bank of ten racks, four slots have been taken from one house converted into flats and two other slots are neighbour's kids bikes - presumably the parents have a spot or two as well. So that leaves 2-4 spaces between the rest of the roughly 200 flats on the street.


Lambeth is £42 for rental plus a key deposit of £25, Most other councils only charge £30 for rental and £25 deposit.


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## cuppa tee (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Lambeth is £42 for rental plus a key deposit of £25, Most other councils only charge £30 for rental and £25 deposit.



Those bike hangers are rented from the manufacturers who then charge a second fee to key holders, a good earner
maybe the council would be better subsidising welding classes and making their own


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> Those bike hangers are rented from the manufacturers who then charge a second fee to key holders, a good earner
> maybe the council would be better subsidising welding classes and making their own


I think a company called Cyclehoop manage the scheme. You have to book things with them.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> Those bike hangers are rented from the manufacturers who then charge a second fee to key holders, a good earner
> maybe the council would be better subsidising welding classes and making their own


Which other schemes are you looking at? To be honest I don't think £3.75/month for a secure covered bike parking in your street is at all unreasonable.
Reducing the price won't increase usage because the scheme is over subscribed and is unlikely to keep up with demand.

ETA - sorry, £3.50 / month


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

I like this bit of garb from Lambeth on there vision for cycling,,
Our vision is that:
Lambeth will be the most cycle-friendly borough in London where 1- 100 year olds feel safe enough to cycle.


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## cuppa tee (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Which other schemes are you looking at? To be honest I don't think £3.75/month for a secure covered bike parking in your street is at all unreasonable.
> Reducing the price won't increase usage because the scheme is over subscribed and is unlikely to keep up with demand.
> 
> ETA - sorry, £3.50 / month



just thinking it might be nice if thee £3.50 was going back into the community....the welding classes would be good for unemployed young people and the tutors could be mechanics put out of business because the council is rewarding people for scrapping serviceable cars for nice shiney new ones that will also be scrap in few years....they could finance the scheme by stopping using consultants at the drop of a hat


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## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I like this bit of garb from Lambeth on there vision for cycling,,
> Our vision is that:
> Lambeth will be the most cycle-friendly borough in London where 1- 100 year olds feel safe enough to cycle.



At this rate, I'll be a 1,000 before I feel London has become safe enough to cycle


----------



## han (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> As much as I like them if you can get a space, the new bike shelters are not going to change a thing. It costs thousands of pounds to fit each shelter and they are immediately taken by people who already own bikes.  And of the people I know who have spaces in them, whilst some use their bikes every day, others just want somewhere to keep them for occasional use. It would be years before they have them on every street and only then will they look at multiple ones per street. A street of 100 houses mostly converted into flats will have 200-250 households so the number of racks needed to make even a dent in the bike store demand is huge.  I reckon it would be more effective to subsidise Bromptons (ok - they're pricey) or other folding bikes which can be kept in the house.


I agree with this. I think those bike hangars only make sense on streets where blocks of flats are the main housing. 
In roads with terraced houses, there is plenty of room in back and front gardens and indoor corridors for bikes. 
I've got 4 bikes, and cycle daily, and I'm a member of LCC,, yet I voted against those hangars in our street for the above reason. Plus, parking cars in our street is such a nightmare (we're just outside where residential parking stsrts), and the two bicycle hangars that are going to be built are going to make matters even worse. 
I keep my bikes indoors. There's plenty of room for bicycles indoors, and outdoors , front and back in our street. Personally I think it's just another Lambeth Council money spinner and a really cheap way for them to look like they give a shit about cycling, rather than actually investing some proper money into the cycling infrastructure.


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> At this rate, I'll be a 1,000 before I feel London has become safe enough to cycle


I cycle as much as i can, There are many roads and places in london that i feel are to dangerous to cycle.


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## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

han said:


> In roads with terraced houses, there is plenty of room in back and front gardens and indoor corridors for bikes.


Not where those houses have been converted into flats, in which case the ground floor flat might have space in a back garden (although the conversions often make entrance hallways even more narrow and awkward to take a bike through), but any upper floor flats usually have absolutely nowhere to store a bike, uless it is in one of the rooms. Plus it is very awkward carrying a bike up and down narrow stairs every day.


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

han said:


> I agree with this. I think those bike hangars only make sense on streets where blocks of flats are the main housing.
> In roads with terraced houses, there is plenty of room in back and front gardens and indoor corridors for bikes.
> I've got 4 bikes, and cycle daily, and I'm a member of LCC,, yet I voted against those hangars in our street for the above reason. Plus, parking cars in our street is such a nightmare (we're just outside where residential parking stsrts), and the two bicycle hangars that are going to be built are going to make matters even worse.
> I keep my bikes indoors. There's plenty of room for bicycles indoors, and outdoors , front and back in our street. Personally I think it's just another Lambeth Council money spinner and a really cheap way for them to look like they give a shit about cycling, rather than actually investing some proper money into the cycling infrastructure.



I was wondering if it was just tokenism or Lambeth having to fulfill some eu green directive.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> As much as I like them if you can get a space, the new bike shelters are not going to change a thing. It costs thousands of pounds to fit each shelter and they are immediately taken by people who already own bikes.  And of the people I know who have spaces in them, whilst some use their bikes every day, others just want somewhere to keep them for occasional use. It would be years before they have them on every street and only then will they look at multiple ones per street. A street of 100 houses mostly converted into flats will have 200-250 households so the number of racks needed to make even a dent in the bike store demand is huge.  I reckon it would be more effective to subsidise Bromptons (ok - they're pricey) or other folding bikes which can be kept in the house.



How many thousands of pounds does it take to fit each shelter (and how do you know)?


----------



## Smick (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I cycle as much as i can, There are many roads and places in london that i feel are to dangerous to cycle.


I was on the superhighway between Elephant and Southwark and I reckon there other cyclists pose quote a threat.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

The Moon from SW9 tonight:


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

Smick said:


> I was on the superhighway between Elephant and Southwark and I reckon there other cyclists pose quote a threat.


Absolutely, Adrenaline,Late for work,selfishness all factors on Boris highway that makes it dangerous at times.However i would rather be cut up by a push bike than a motor vehicle.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> How many thousands of pounds does it take to fit each shelter (and how do you know)?


I asked the guy in charge of delivering the scheme when they refused an application on the basis of funding  running out.  I wondered whether there was  any mileage in getting people in a street to club together. It was a lot more pricey than I'd anticipated. Differs according to installation but he estimated 3.5k average.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Absolutely, Adrenaline,Late for work,selfishness all factors on Boris highway that makes it dangerous at times.However i would rather be cut up by a push bike than a motor vehicle.


Carbon fibre  commuters.


----------



## han (Sep 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Not where those houses have been converted into flats, in which case the ground floor flat might have space in a back garden (although the conversions often make entrance hallways even more narrow and awkward to take a bike through), but any upper floor flats usually have absolutely nowhere to store a bike, uless it is in one of the rooms. Plus it is very awkward carrying a bike up and down narrow stairs every day.


Good point. 
However, all houses in our street (including those divided into flats) have ample front gardens where some people keep bikes. Those hangars, in our street are not only unnecessary, they're exacerbating the terrible parking problem. 

I appreciate they might be of benefit in some streets though .


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

Bikes inevitably end up being stored outside in the small balconies of new build flats, so the exterior never quite looks as nice as the artist's impression.


----------



## sparkybird (Sep 29, 2014)

han said:


> Those hangars, in our street are not only unnecessary, they're exacerbating the terrible parking problem.



I noticed that on Dumbarton Road they put the hanger on what was a single yellow line, so maybe they are trying not to mess up the parking too much?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Carbon fibre  commuters.


Not me maaate.


----------



## han (Sep 29, 2014)

Maybe. 
But they are messing it up. One of those hangars take up 1.5 car spaces and there are 2 on Dumbarton Rd. There is never anywhere to park there now.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Not me maaate.View attachment 61833



Nice. But I prefer to look down on other cyclists:


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

han said:


> Good point.
> However, all houses in our street (including those divided into flats) have ample front gardens where some people keep bikes. Those hangars, in our street are not only unnecessary, they're exacerbating the terrible parking problem.
> 
> I appreciate they might be of benefit in some streets though .



I think it's a funny kind of logic that says bike hangars - which mean that 12 bikes can be stored in one car parking space - "exacerbate the parking problem". Isn't it car ownership that causes the parking problem? If a bike hangar helps encourage just 2 of its 12 potential users to give up car ownership then you have effectively gained an extra parking space (or indeed an extra 12 bike parking spaces).

I can see that in a street where there are houses with adequate off-street bike parking space, hangars are unuecessary. However, there are lots and lots of streets in Lambeth where only a fraction of the residents have genuinely convenient bike parking space.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I asked the guy in charge of delivering the scheme when they refused an application on the basis of funding  running out.  I wondered whether there was  any mileage in getting people in a street to club together. It was a lot more pricey than I'd anticipated. Differs according to installation but he estimated 3.5k average.



Seems fairly in line with the £2600+VAT purchase cost mentioned here.

You'd think a bulk order could bring that down quite a bit though.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

I'm amazed that new multi story private builds (like the 9 floor monster that's going to flatten the Canterbury) don't have to make any provision for car parking for residents. The developers say the well off people moving in won't have cars, so that's alright then.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm amazed that new multi story private builds (like the 9 floor monster that's going to flatten the Canterbury) don't have to make any provision for car parking for residents. The developers say the well off people moving in won't have cars, so that's alright then.


Generally how it works (i think) is that when permission is given it is made clear that the residents will have no right to apply for parking permits, and the developers then have to market the flats on this basis. Anyone buying a flat in a "car free development" has to accept the fact that they can't expect parking space to be made available for them on (our) public roads.

Seems like a fairly sensible arrangement to me. I'd much rather that than more developments that encourage car ownership for their residents. Providing car parking just reduces the number of people that can be housed, and puts extra pollution, congestion and danger on London's roads.


----------



## se5 (Sep 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> How many thousands of pounds does it take to fit each shelter (and how do you know)?



The Lambeth sustainable transport staff were talking about this at a conference recently - if I recall each bike hangar costs around £4,000 to manufacture and install all in (including staff time etc) and can be done in a day as they generally dont require planning permission. They reckon they will have a life of at least 10 years. The ongoing costs werent very big - I think they get washed every quarter or so and repainted every few years and these costs + keys etc were covered by the rental income. 

And the demand is huge - they have just completed their 100th one = 600 spaces and they reckoned that they would need to install at least another 100 to meet current demand, this is before any new demand from new cyclists and any demand in the South of the borough.

In an ideal world I would have thought there could be a way of getting anyone applying for a conversion to pay for one as part of the planning process but I guess its never that simple - they should at least (and possibly do already) make all new large scale developments install them as part of the development.


----------



## Manter (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm amazed that new multi story private builds (like the 9 floor monster that's going to flatten the Canterbury) don't have to make any provision for car parking for residents. The developers say the well off people moving in won't have cars, so that's alright then.


there's some restriction, or fine or something if you want to put in parking iirc.  I can't remember the details, but i know about it because a client of mine was trying to build a new office and they are only allowed a certain number of parking spaces before you have to pay a fine to the mayor of london's office.  It was all a bit of a fuck up as two hundred field based sales staff were left with nowhere to park when they came into the office….I can't remember the details, will ask him next time I see him


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

se5 said:


> The Lambeth sustainable transport staff were talking about this at a conference recently - if I recall each bike hangar costs around £4,000 to manufacture and install all in (including staff time etc) and can be done in a day as they generally dont require planning permission. They reckon they will have a life of at least 10 years. The ongoing costs werent very big - I think they get washed every quarter or so and repainted every few years and were covered by the rental income.
> 
> And the demand is huge - they have just completed their 100th one = 600 spaces and they reckoned that they would need to install at least another 100 to meet current demand, this is before any new demand from new cyclists and any demand in the South of the borough.
> 
> In an ideal world I would have thought there could be a way of getting anyone applying for a conversion to pay for one as part of the planning process but I guess its never that simple - they should at least (and possibly do already) make all new large scale developments install them as part of the development.



£4000 / 10 years = £400/year.

£400/6 places = £66 per space per year.

I don't think something in the region of £66 per year per bike place (a bit more than a pound a week) is completely unreasonable. I'd pay that. Seems to me like they could fairly much be made to pay for themselves and if there's evidence of huge demand, it ought to be possible to bring costs down quite a bit.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm amazed that new multi story private builds (like the 9 floor monster that's going to flatten the Canterbury) don't have to make any provision for car parking for residents. The developers say the well off people moving in won't have cars, so that's alright then.



As you'd expect, it's not quite as simple as that. They enter into a s106 which makes all properties at that address ineligible for a resident's parking permit, whether they want one or not.

From the Canterbury planning statement:


> Car Parking
> 7.81. The proposals provide a car free development consistent with paragraph 10.5 of the Council’s
> pre-application letter. A s106 legal agreement will ensure that all dwellings should be secured
> as permit free.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> £4000 / 10 years = £400/year.
> 
> £400/6 places = £66 per space per year.
> 
> I don't think something in the region of £66 per year per bike place (a bit more than a pound a week) is completely unreasonable. I'd pay that. Seems to me like they could fairly much be made to pay for themselves and if there's evidence of huge demand, it ought to be possible to bring costs down quite a bit.


I might well be wrong but I think the infrastructure charge is paid by Lambeth and then the "rent" is paid to Cyclehoop. If that is the case it is more like £4,000 + (£42 * 6 bikes * 10yrs) = £6,520. 
A lot of Lambeth's costs will be managing the approval process for putting something on the highway, rather than the cost of the hanger.


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## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

han said:


> I agree with this. I think those bike hangars only make sense on streets where blocks of flats are the main housing.
> In roads with terraced houses, there is plenty of room in back and front gardens and indoor corridors for bikes.
> I've got 4 bikes, and cycle daily, and I'm a member of LCC,, yet I voted against those hangars in our street for the above reason. Plus, parking cars in our street is such a nightmare (we're just outside where residential parking stsrts), and the two bicycle hangars that are going to be built are going to make matters even worse.
> I keep my bikes indoors. There's plenty of room for bicycles indoors, and outdoors , front and back in our street. Personally I think it's just another Lambeth Council money spinner and a really cheap way for them to look like they give a shit about cycling, rather than actually investing some proper money into the cycling infrastructure.



Some good points. No room in our front gardens though


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## colacubes (Sep 29, 2014)

Also worth bearing in mind that in houses that have been split into flats, only 1 flat often has right of use of the garden. And it's often against lease rules to store in the communal parts of the building.


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## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

Only objection to bicycle hangars in this road came from someone who wanted to preserve parking spaces.

But I am not sure that car spaces should be sancrosanct and, ideally, some may now switch from cars to bikes.

You could certainly imagine it in the case of an individual in a converted flat with no space for a bicycle.


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## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

Even in a typical, unconverted, 4 bedroom London terrace house, you can maybe get away with one bike in the hallway (still hardly ideal) but two becomes problematic, and if it's a shared house arrangement where you could have 4 people commuting by bike it becomes completely impractical (I know from experience).

You can put bikes in the back garden, perhaps, but that generally means bringing the bike and any associated dirt, rainwater, etc up some doorsteps, all the way down a hallway, often with several steps' level change, perhaps through a kitchen and out another door into a narrow outside area where more than a couple of bikes can easily become a tangle (again I know from experience). It's hardly ideal.


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## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> But I am not sure that car spaces should be sancrosanct


I am completely sure that they shouldn't.


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2014)

We walked our bikes up and down 2 flights of stairs every day for the 2 years we lived above the shops on the high street. Would have killed for one of those hangers.


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## leanderman (Sep 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Even in a typical, unconverted, 4 bedroom London terrace house, you can maybe get away with one bike in the hallway (still hardly ideal) but two becomes problematic, and if it's a shared house arrangement where you could have 4 people commuting by bike it becomes completely impractical (I know from experience).
> 
> You can put bikes in the back garden, perhaps, but that generally means bringing the bike and any associated dirt, rainwater, etc up some doorsteps, all the way down a hallway, often with several steps' level change, perhaps through a kitchen and out another door into a narrow outside area where more than a couple of bikes can easily become a tangle (again I know from experience). It's hardly ideal.



Largely why we and our (3) kids don't cycle. Too much bother


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## se5 (Sep 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I am completely sure that they shouldn't.



And I get the impression that finally this is the council's thinking - it makes sense:  fewer than 50% of households in Lambeth own a car (probably much higher in the North of the borough and around Brixton); we're an inner city borough with, on the whole, adequate public transport available and so we/they should be encouraging walking and cycling at the expense of private cars.

Why should people who own cars have the 'right' to park their vehicle outside their home? I dont have the right to put up a shed or other storage faciliuty on the road so why should motorists have the right to essentially store their property on the public highway?


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## se5 (Sep 29, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Largely why we and our (3) kids don't cycle. Too much bother



Which is why we need the bike hangars on every street so that you, your kids and everyone else can access their bikes easily and use them for travelling to school, to work, to the shops with the minimum of hassle


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## Winot (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm amazed that new multi story private builds (like the 9 floor monster that's going to flatten the Canterbury) don't have to make any provision for car parking for residents. The developers say the well off people moving in won't have cars, so that's alright then.



Car ownership in London is the preserve of the well-off. The poorest 30% iirc don't generally own cars. So dissuading the well-off from owning cars is levelling the playing field.


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## se5 (Sep 29, 2014)

Winot said:


> Car ownership in London is the preserve of the well-off. The poorest 30% iirc don't generally own cars. So dissuading the well-off from owning cars is levelling the playing field.



Yes and sadly it is the poorest whose lives are affected most by pollution as they generally live in the lowest quality housing usually on the busiest roads


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## Smick (Sep 29, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Absolutely, Adrenaline,Late for work,selfishness all factors on Boris highway that makes it dangerous at times.However i would rather be cut up by a push bike than a motor vehicle.


It's like the tour de France! I was on a Boris bike and thought it would be a nice leisurely scoot down the blue bus lane, I was wrong.


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## gaijingirl (Sep 29, 2014)

Smick said:


> It's like the tour de France! I was on a Boris bike and thought it would be a nice leisurely scoot down the blue bus lane, I was wrong.


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## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

Winot said:


> Car ownership in London is the preserve of the well-off. The poorest 30% iirc don't generally own cars. So dissuading the well-off from owning cars is levelling the playing field.


Do you _really_ think that not providing car parking space for this new upmarket private housing development will persuade _all _the residents to abandon their cars?


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## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

Rushy said:


> As you'd expect, it's not quite as simple as that. They enter into a s106 which makes all properties at that address ineligible for a resident's parking permit, whether they want one or not.
> 
> From the Canterbury planning statement:


It adds up to exactly the same thing: i.e there is no provision for car parking provided for new residents. Nothing to stop them parking elsewhere of course. Which some will.


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> Do you _really_ think that not providing car parking space for this new upmarket private housing development will persuade all the residents to abandon their cars?


Where are they going to park them? All the parking is restricted around there, and permits will be refused to residents of the development, per the S106 agreement.


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## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Where are they going to park them? All the parking is restricted around there, and permits will be refused to residents of the development, per the S106 agreement.


There's still spaces to be found around Brixton, even if it involves a bit of a walk.


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## colacubes (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> Do you _really_ think that not providing car parking space for this new upmarket private housing development will persuade all the residents to abandon their cars?



Well no, but what's the answer? Provide private parking?  Or provide no parking and hope that it might discourage some from car ownership given the added cost of insurance/parking permits for onstreet parking. I know which I'd prefer.  Plus if they're unable to apply for a parking permit because their property is not allowed to have a permit then they're stuffed unless they can come up with a much more creative solution.  Which is good imho.  they can join a car club or do without.


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## colacubes (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> There's still spaces to be found around Brixton, even if it involves a bit of a walk.



With the greatest respect, have you tried to find a parking space in Brixton that isn't residents' parking during the hours of 8-8? This is only a compromise that can be found if you have the sort of job where you can go and move your car every 2 hours.


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## Rushy (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> It adds up to exactly the same thing: i.e there is no provision for car parking provided for new residents. Nothing to stop them parking elsewhere of course. Which some will.


Where? Specifically.


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2014)

I think there's some unregulated parking along the back of Moorlands, and to the West of Max Roach park. Hardly convenient for the Canterbury site. I have to say I'm surprised to see you calling for car parking provision editor!


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## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

Crispy said:


> I think there's some unregulated parking along the back of Moorlands, and to the West of Max Roach park. Hardly convenient for the Canterbury site. I have to say I'm surprised to see you calling for car parking provision editor!


I'm calling for less hefty private residential blocks being built on top of pubs.


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## colacubes (Sep 29, 2014)

You're doing it in a very weird way   I completely agree with you as it goes, but as Crispy says, mostly these are built with a s106 agreement that residents can't apply for a residents parking permit and there is no actual parking so it makes car ownership much more difficult.  It's also a massive pain in the arse to get even visitor's permits for if you have a tradesman who needs to come to your flat and park.   I'm sure some people who are really determined will find a way round it, but as a rule it's a pain in the arse to park in Brixton and the north of Lambeth.  As it should be.


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## CH1 (Sep 29, 2014)

There is a car park under Raphael House (opposite Barrier Block) which contains nothing but dusty (unused) old bangers. Why was 1980s social housing built with essential of car parking underneath?


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## colacubes (Sep 29, 2014)

CH1 said:


> There is a car park under Raphael House (opposite Barrier Block) which contains nothing but dusty (unused) old bangers. Why was 1980s social housing built with essential of car parking underneath?



Fuck knows.  But only people who live in the block can use it in theory.  They should restrict parking in a much stricter way on estates managed by Lambeth, which operate under different rules to the rest of the streets in the borough.


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> There's still spaces to be found around Brixton, even if it involves a bit of a walk.


There are advertisements on Landor road for parking permits for rent,It seems to be a growing trend.


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## teuchter (Sep 29, 2014)

CH1 said:


> There is a car park under Raphael House (opposite Barrier Block) which contains nothing but dusty (unused) old bangers. Why was 1980s social housing built with essential of car parking underneath?


I guess the same reason that the barrier block was built the way it was, ready for a motorway crashing through Brixton - town planners saw the car as the future and wrecked a lot of our urban spaces as a result. Luckily, hopefully, we have got over that thinking now (at least in inner London).


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## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

CH1 said:


> There is a car park under Raphael House (opposite Barrier Block) which contains nothing but dusty (unused) old bangers. Why was 1980s social housing built with essential of car parking underneath?


There's also an entire floor of the Barrier Block that has car parking space, but - AFAIK - it's unusable due to 'ealth and safety. It's certainly never been used since the block opened (although there is ample car parking below).


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## editor (Sep 30, 2014)

I'm pretty sure this sign in Stockwell Avenue has singularly failed to persuade any potential pissers.


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## Tolpuddle (Sep 30, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm pretty sure this sign in Stockwell Avenue has singularly failed to persuade any potential pissers.
> 
> View attachment 61848


 
Also in Stockwell Avenue there is a pissoir (or similar) that consists of a galvanised trough at the front, with a flower bed just behind it (as you walk towards Brixton Road it is on the left, just past the rear doors of the gym). Most people don't know what it is and I've often seen people sitting on it eating a sandwich.


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## cuppa tee (Sep 30, 2014)

se5 said:


> Why should people who own cars have the 'right' to park their vehicle outside their home? I dont have the right to put up a shed or other storage faciliuty on the road so why should motorists have the right to essentially store their property on the public highway?



they pay "road tax" and if they live in a cpz they pay for a permit.


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Some good points. No room in our front gardens though


Part of the problem is that in adopting cycling many Londoners have purchased expensive often heavily stylised or customised bikes which are well worth nicking, even if it takes some effort, so they then need huge steel crates to protect them. Commuter bikes really do not need to be high performance.

There are some pretty ghastly contraptions going in front gardens which do nothing for the streetscape. I appreciate streetscape is not considered a priority for a lot of people but I think it is a hugely important factor in how people feel about where they live. Let it deteriorate and people's respect / pride for the area deteriorates with it. A design competition sponsored by Lambeth planning for secure bike storage in private front gardens and other specific locations would be a good idea, I think.

Another thing which would help would be safe folding handle bars and pedals which would mean two regular rigid frame bikes could be stored folded flat hung on the wall (one above the other, or maybe even three or four vertically) in a large proportion of communal flat entrances. More fully folding bikes would be even better. 

It is all very us residents complaining that we have not been given bike space, but we also need to be realistic about the space available and make practical choices. Ensuring cycle provision in new developments is one thing, but I don't think town planning or bike policy should have to be based around making sure everyone can retrospectively safely store a £2,000 racer or avoid carrying their beloved and beautiful but impractically overweight and oversized bone shaker upstairs. Fitting six standard bikes into the space of one car is not going to fix the problem for the masses. More practical choices of bikes will help.


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## steeeve (Sep 30, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Only objection to bicycle hangars in this road came from someone who wanted to preserve parking spaces.
> 
> But I am not sure that car spaces should be sancrosanct and, ideally, some may now switch from cars to bikes.
> 
> You could certainly imagine it in the case of an individual in a converted flat with no space for a bicycle.


There's always space to park on our street isn't there? I keep 2 bikes on the stairs in our flat even though we have racks in the front garden. Bikes still get stolen/stripped when left outside over night if they're accessible. I'll be applying for a space in a hanger though I'll probably just leave one bike permanently in there and still use the one on the stairs day to day. 2 spaces seems too expensive!


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## steeeve (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Part of the problem is that in adopting cycling many Londoners have purchased expensive often heavily stylised or customised bikes which are well worth nicking, even if it takes some effort, so they then need huge steel crates to protect them. Commuter bikes really do not need to be high performance.
> 
> A hybrid worth a few hundred would still get nicked / stripped if left outside every night and if people who like to do long rides at weekends have to buy another cheap bike to commute on (as i did and my road bike certainly isn't worth thousands) doesn't that makes the storage problem worse?


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## steeeve (Sep 30, 2014)

Somehow I edited your post, my reply was the bottom bit...

A hybrid worth a few hundred would still get nicked / stripped if left outside every night and if people who like to do long rides at weekends have to buy another cheap bike to commute on (as i did and my road bike certainly isn't worth thousands) doesn't that makes the storage problem worse?


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## leanderman (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said: 'There are some pretty ghastly contraptions going in front gardens which do nothing for the streetscape.'

This much is true. Some pretty horrible bunkers being built.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> There are some pretty ghastly contraptions going in front gardens which do nothing for the streetscape. I appreciate streetscape is not considered a priority for a lot of people but I think it is a hugely important factor in how people feel about where they live. Let it deteriorate and people's respect / pride for the area deteriorates with it. A design competition sponsored by Lambeth planning for secure bike storage in private front gardens and other specific locations would be a good idea, I think.



I care greatly about streetscape, and I agree that many of those front garden storage lockers are quite ugly. I also think that the design of the bike hangars could be improved upon. But cars are pretty ugly too, especially when parked in endless rows. We've come to just get used to them being there becuase they are everywhere. But just about anyone would agree that a street with no cars, or very few cars, is much nicer than one packed full of them. (Witness the response to showing someone a photo of their street pre-1940s.)

Providing bike hangars would help stop people putting storage lockers in front gardens. And they make it more attractive for car owners to give up their cras. And even with the current design, I'd rather look out my window and see four of those than forty or fifty cars parked nose to tail. Especially if those bike hangars were interspersed between parking bays some of which had had trees planted in them, or if a reduction in car parking space meant that a pavement could be widened, or a decent, proper width bike lane. Or a couple of benches.

If you go to one of the towns in the Netherlands or Denmark where they've been successful in establishing cycling as the main method of private transport, rather than the car, it is really, really striking how much the streetscape in general benefits. Shifting the emphasis from cars to pedestrians and cyclists profoundly affects the way people use roads and the public spaces associated with them.

We've got a long way to get to that stage in London, but I think we should support anything that makes it more attractive for people to use bikes.

To some extent you may have a point about people buying very expensive bikes. I spent some time in Denmark recently and the culture there is quite different - most people have quite unfancy sit-up-and-beg bikes and they are much more casual about leaving them in the street (it's common just to have a small lock that locks the wheel to the frame but the bike remains unattached to anything).

But if we want to encourage people to use bikes more, then I don't think telling them that they should either have cheap and slightly crappy bikes, or expensive Brompton type things they can take into their house, is going to help.

There's also a mismatch between taking that attitide to bike owners and the generally assumed privileges that we give car owners, such as the ability to park for free in publicly owned space, and all the other real costs of widespread car dependency that we all pay for whether or not we're car owners.

We allow people to own very expensive cars that are much more powerful than necessary, and cause accidents as a result. We allow people to own expensive cars that are much bigger than necessary and take up space in the public domain that could be used for things that would be of communal benefit. But then we tell cyclists that it's unreasonable to want to have a nice bike, and park it in the street for a fee that is more expensive by unit area than that which we charge car owners, if we charge them at all?


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

steeeve said:


> Somehow I edited your post, my reply was the bottom bit...
> 
> A hybrid worth a few hundred would still get nicked / stripped if left outside every night and if people who like to do long rides at weekends have to buy another cheap bike to commute on (as i did and my road bike certainly isn't worth thousands) doesn't that makes the storage problem worse?


As much as it is nice to have, a hybrid worth a few hundred quid is not necessary for a commute. Like you said - you have two bikes already - one which you hardly use. Over the years I have accumulated a road bike, a hard tail mountain bike and a full sus - if I didn't have space I'd either very reluctantly get rid of two of them or find somewhere to store the two I use less regularly). Before I moved into a place with a garden I had a second hand mountain bike which was perfectly great for pottering around London , and passable for a bit of trail riding and a couple of London to Brightons (ok - not ideal - specially the extra weight on Ditchling, but my feet did not touch the ground, honest!) Yes people need encouragement and assistance with facilities but I think that to a large extent it is up to us as individuals to come up with solutions too (even if it is as simple as keeping it in the hall if that is acceptable to everyone in your home). If we don't have the space we should also consider something which works with the space we have. Especially when it comes to specialist bike needs for sports etc.. If we need a second specialist bike and don't have space, hire one or a storage space (not the sort which is intended to improve things for commuters).


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> if I didn't have space I'd either *very reluctantly* get rid of two of them



exactly!



Rushy said:


> If we need a second specialist bike and don't have space, hire one or a storage space (not the sort which is intended to improve things for commuters).



I don't think either of these are realistic options.

How about we tell all car owners who "need" a car, and can't park it on their own property, either to hire one (join a car club) or hire a storage space (presumably remote from where they live)? That would free up loads more street space.


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## steeeve (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> As much as it is nice to have, a hybrid worth a few hundred quid is not necessary for a commute. Like you said - you have two bikes already - one which you hardly use. Over the years I have accumulated a road bike, a hard tail mountain bike and a full sus - if I didn't have space I'd either very reluctantly get rid of two of them or find somewhere to store the two I use less regularly). Before I moved into a place with a garden I had a second hand mountain bike which was perfectly great for pottering around London , and passable for a bit of trail riding and a couple of London to Brightons (ok - not ideal - specially the extra weight on Ditchling, but my feet did not touch the ground, honest!) Yes people need encouragement and assistance with facilities but I think that to a large extent it is up to us as individuals to come up with solutions too (even if it is as simple as keeping it in the hall if that is acceptable to everyone in your home). If we don't have the space we should also consider something which works with the space we have. Especially when it comes to specialist bike needs for sports etc.. If we need a second specialist bike and don't have space, hire one or a storage space (not the sort which is intended to improve things for commuters).



I use both bikes on a weekly basis but at varying times. I.e one in bad weather or when it will be left outside all day and the other one in good weather and when I can keep it in the underground car park at work. Would just like to keep the one I wasn't using somewhere safe to free up space.

Take you point on additional bikes being a luxury rather than a primary mode but shouldn't the same apply to cars? How many people in London commute by car? Most people use the tube/bus/train as there primary mode of transport and if they're lucky enough to be able to afford to run a car it's for weekend trips?


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## Dan U (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



would you refund their road tax? what about people who need cars to access jobs or mobility vehicles and the like.

what a ridiculous idea.

eta - not against the idea of encouraging more cycling btw


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## Ms T (Sep 30, 2014)

I keep my bike in the garage.

*smug*


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## editor (Sep 30, 2014)

Shedload of coppers pulling over cars on Coldharbour Lane opposite the block right now.


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I care greatly about streetscape, and I agree that many of those front garden storage lockers are quite ugly. I also think that the design of the bike hangars could be improved upon. But cars are pretty ugly too, especially when parked in endless rows. We've come to just get used to them being there becuase they are everywhere. But just about anyone would agree that a street with no cars, or very few cars, is much nicer than one packed full of them. (Witness the response to showing someone a photo of their street pre-1940s.)
> 
> Providing bike hangars would help stop people putting storage lockers in front gardens. And they make it more attractive for car owners to give up their cras. And even with the current design, I'd rather look out my window and see four of those than forty or fifty cars parked nose to tail. Especially if those bike hangars were interspersed between parking bays some of which had had trees planted in them, or if a reduction in car parking space meant that a pavement could be widened, or a decent, proper width bike lane. Or a couple of benches.
> 
> ...



I can't help feeling that you risk falling into the trap that you tend to dislike - that of creating polar positions where they don't really exist.

We might allow it but don't as a society say it's perfectly ok to have a more powerful car than a sensible one - we charge extra road tax, we charge extra for resident's parking, extra for insurance (they're more likely to have a costly accident and more likely to be nicked), we tax the hell out of fuel and we even ban less efficient models from built up areas (even something as seemingly innocuous as a 2006 VW camper or panel van is banned from most of the area inside the M25). So I don't agree it's unreasonable to encourage people to think about more practical options when it comes to bicycles even if that is as simple as looking at folding pedals and bars which make home storage much easier (and even increases capacity of those street units). Like you say - security is less of a problem in Denmark because they aren't so precious about them. So many bikes here are status and fashion items and whilst that should not be banned it also should not be encouraged or pandered to. And don't get me started on commuters who treat the streets as their adrenaline race fix for the day. 

On an aesthetic note, I'd love to see less cars in the streets (and in paved front gardens) but I see it as far more of a priority to reduce the number of small local journeys than to reduce car ownership. I would like to see road tax replaced with a tracker and selective road tolls. The point I was making about front gardens is that I don't think we need to just accept that anything pro bike is acceptable. Brighton - of all places, given its Green council - is taking a strong stance against planning infringements involving insensitively positioned bike boxes. There is clearly scope for some clever and well thought out design solutions and the council should encourage this. The new bike stores are great for those who have one but I don't think they can realistically be implemented in sufficient numbers to relieve the need for parking bikes at home.

None of this is an argument against drastically improving provision for cyclists and reducing dependence on cars.


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> exactly!


No, sorry. I don't see your point. Having three bikes is a luxury and in no way a necessity. My reluctance to give two of them up does not translate into the need for the council to provide storage space I don't think.


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

steeeve said:


> I use both bikes on a weekly basis but at varying times. I.e one in bad weather or when it will be left outside all day and the other one in good weather and when I can keep it in the underground car park at work. Would just like to keep the one I wasn't using somewhere safe to free up space.
> 
> Take you point on additional bikes being a luxury rather than a primary mode but shouldn't the same apply to cars? How many people in London commute by car? Most people use the tube/bus/train as there primary mode of transport and if they're lucky enough to be able to afford to run a car it's for weekend trips?



I don't think there is anything wrong with the way you use your two bikes - I just don't see it as a priority for the council to make it easier for you (or me).

I'm not sure that comparing everything to cars is all that helpful in developing strategy but I agree short local car journeys and commutes are to be discouraged - I mentioned above that I would support tracked road tolling. Commuters into central London already pay £11.50/day. My van rarely does a trip starting and finishing in London other than trip to the tip or to collect something heavy. I hate driving in London and would prefer to take a tube, bike or walk almost every time.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I can't help feeling that you risk falling into the trap that you tend to dislike - that of creating polar positions where they don't really exist.
> 
> We might allow it but don't as a society say it's perfectly ok to have a more powerful car than a sensible one - we charge extra road tax, we charge extra for resident's parking, extra for insurance (they're more likely to have a costly accident and more likely to be nicked), we tax the hell out of fuel and we even ban less efficient models from built up areas (even something as seemingly innocuous as a 2006 VW camper or panel van is banned from most of the area inside the M25). So I don't agree it's unreasonable to encourage people to think about more practical options when it comes to bicycles even if that is as simple as looking at folding pedals and bars which make home storage much easier (and even increases capacity of those street units). Like you say - security is less of a problem in Denmark because they aren't so precious about them. So many bikes here are status and fashion items and whilst that should not be banned it also should not be encouraged or pandered to. And don't get me started on commuters who treat the streets as their adrenaline race fix for the day.
> 
> ...



A proper response to this would require getting into the whole argument about whether or not car owners actually pay for the *real* costs of the consequences of widespread car ownership/dependency. The costs to everyone, which are multiple and can be hard to quantify objectively. My opinion is that they don't, and car ownership is, in effect, excessively subsidised in the UK. You might disagree of course.

This would include pointing out that there's no such thing as "road tax". There isn't money that goes into a pot and then fully pays for everything that is required to allow people to own and use private cars.

It's an argument that's been had in the transport forum many times over and one that I've not got the time to get into today.

But that's where the difference of opinoin lies, I suspect. I don't think I'm creating polar opposites. I accept that certain people need cars for certain things. But I do think that private car ownership could be reduced significantly, with significant benefits as a result. So my feeling that effort should be put into providing stuff like bike hangars is informed by that opinion.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I mentioned above that I would support tracked road tolling.



So would I.

But this was offered some time ago and quashed by the vocal road lobby.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2014)

In case anyone's missed the other thread: 
The last days of Carlton Mansions, the evicted housing co-op in Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


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## leanderman (Sep 30, 2014)

Quality debate here. Good work people.


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> A proper response to this would require getting into the whole argument about whether or not car owners actually pay for the *real* costs of the consequences of widespread car ownership/dependency. The costs to everyone, which are multiple and can be hard to quantify objectively. My opinion is that they don't, and car ownership is, in effect, excessively subsidised in the UK. You might disagree of course.
> 
> This would include pointing out that there's no such thing as "road tax". There isn't money that goes into a pot and then fully pays for everything that is required to allow people to own and use private cars.
> 
> ...



I don't agree that's where the difference lies. You have taken a largely practical discussion about how effectively the current bike hanger can be rolled out, whether this is an effective means of meeting growing demand for bike space and other ways of easing the storage problem into a car vs bike, it's not fair, "road tax isn't really road tax" soap box. I don't think it helps to be avidly pro or anti car lobby when considering the practicalities of individual cycle initiatives.


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## Winot (Sep 30, 2014)

At it's simplest level, doesn't this come down to:

> more bike hangars will tend to encourage more bike ownership (and possibly use)
> more bike hangars will take away car parking spaces
> fewer car parking spaces will tend to discourage car ownership

Anyone disagree with any of that?

We then need to ask what type of London we want.  And I want a London with fewer cars and more bike ownership/use.


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## Winot (Sep 30, 2014)

Also, on a personal level, I own a car which we bought and arguably needed when we had babies/toddlers but probably don't need now.  We should probably get rid of it and use car clubs (certainly once the kids don't need car seats any more) but will probably hang on to it for reasons of laziness and convenience, and because we can leave it parked outside our house.  If we couldn't do that because the space was taken up with bike hangars, that would tip the balance in favour of selling it.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I don't agree that's where the difference lies. You have taken a largely practical discussion about how effectively the current bike hanger can be rolled out, whether this is an effective means of meeting growing demand for bike space and other ways of easing the storage problem into a car vs bike, it's not fair, "road tax isn't really road tax" soap box. I don't think it helps to be avidly pro or anti car lobby when considering the practicalities of individual cycle initiatives.


I've simply responded to the arguments presented against a further roll-out of bike hangars which have included
- but it makes it more difficult for people to park their cars
- but it's not fair that cyclists are given space to store their expensive bikes when I've paid for my parking space through "road tax"

I don't think it's unreasonable to respond to these "it's not fair" arguments with my own "yes it is fair" arguments based on my opinion that things are currently biased excessively in favour of car ownership.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Winot said:


> At it's simplest level, doesn't this come down to:
> 
> > more bike hangars will tend to encourage more bike ownership (and possibly use)
> > more bike hangars will take away car parking spaces
> ...


Agree.


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## leanderman (Sep 30, 2014)

Winot said:


> Also, on a personal level, I own a car which we bought and arguably needed when we had babies/toddlers but probably don't need now.  We should probably get rid of it and use car clubs (certainly once the kids don't need car seats any more) but will probably hang on to it for reasons of laziness and convenience, and because we can leave it parked outside our house.  If we couldn't do that because the space was taken up with bike hangars, that would tip the balance in favour of selling it.



Snap.


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I've simply responded to the arguments presented against a further roll-out of bike hangars which have included
> - but it makes it more difficult for people to park their cars
> - but it's not fair that cyclists are given space to store their expensive bikes when I've paid for my parking space through "road tax"
> 
> I don't think it's unreasonable to respond to these "it's not fair" arguments with my own "yes it is fair" arguments based on my opinion that things are currently biased excessively in favour of car ownership.



You have clearly imagined the "it's not fair" argument.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> You have clearly imagined the "it's not fair" argument.



Here is my evidence that some people feel that the reduction of car parking space is a valid reason for arguing against bike hangars:



han said:


> Those hangars, in our street are not only unnecessary, they're exacerbating the terrible parking problem.





leanderman said:


> Only objection to bicycle hangars in this road came from someone who wanted to preserve parking spaces.



And here is my evidence that some people consider the payment of "road tax" and permit costs as a significant point when considering the fairness of implementing bike hangars:



cuppa tee said:


> they pay "road tax" and if they live in a cpz they pay for a permit.





Dan U said:


> would you refund their road tax?



To read those as valid arguments requires a belief that a proposed increase in hangar space, and decrease in parking space, represents a gross unfairness to car owners, because we are talking about an exchange of one car space for twelve bike spaces. It's an order of magnitude change in the number of people that can benefit from a given amount of parking space on the public road, with further knock-on benefits for everyone in the form of reduced traffic, noise, pollution, injury and death.

To reject an exchange of this kind - 12 bike spaces versus 1 car space - surely you'd have to believe that there's a really good reason the car owner should have such massive priority. It seems that for some, the payment of VED and other costs justifies it. I'm saying they don't. They aren't sufficient to make this 1 for 12 exchange unfair.


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## cuppa tee (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> To read those as valid arguments requires a belief that a proposed increase in hangar space, and decrease in parking space, represents a gross unfairness to car owners,



Umm not quite because the post of mine quoted by you was in response to a question asking why people felt they could store their property on the public highway, obviously because they feel that paying means they have a right to. Just as aside I wonder what proportion of cars on the road are corporate owned like the 200 owned by the company Manter referred to earlier, and countless others including the fleets of hire companies and their offshoot subsidiaries the car clubs, also how many are leased by people as a tax scam, you seem to be on a mission to make private car ownership the issue whereas the death congestion and other ills could just as likely be the result of cars that are not privately owned by individuals..............


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## Dan U (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> To read those as valid arguments requires a belief that a proposed increase in hangar space, and decrease in parking space, represents a gross unfairness to car owners, because we are talking about an exchange of one car space for twelve bike spaces. It's an order of magnitude change in the number of people that can benefit from a given amount of parking space on the public road, with further knock-on benefits for everyone in the form of reduced traffic, noise, pollution, injury and death.
> 
> To reject an exchange of this kind - 12 bike spaces versus 1 car space - surely you'd have to believe that there's a really good reason the car owner should have such massive priority. It seems that for some, the payment of VED and other costs justifies it. I'm saying they don't. They aren't sufficient to make this 1 for 12 exchange unfair.



it was one example as to why it was a daft idea, as were the others i gave you. the idea that people who need a car would have to warehouse them somewhere some distance away from their homes was ridiculous when they have existing parking permits (for new developments it is a different proposition)

why not turn that around and have bike hangars somewhere?

space is certainly at a premium in London, but having to ban cars from residential streets to please a group of people who can spend more money on their bikes than many families and older people can afford to spend on a car is laughable.

the answer, as ever, is somewhere in between.


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Here is my evidence that some people feel that the reduction of car parking space is a valid reason for arguing against bike hangars:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I assumed that, as you were responding to my posts, you were commenting on the comments I had made - which were several. I suspect that you may have extrapolated a little to much from some of the statements quoted but I can't speak for them. Suffice to say that I think the "it's fair, no it's not" argument is pointless from both sides.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> Umm not quite because the post of mine quoted by you was in response to a question asking why people felt they could store their property on the public highway, obviously because they feel that paying means they have a right to. Just as aside I wonder what proportion of cars on the road are corporate owned like the 200 owned by the company Manter referred to earlier, and countless others including the fleets of hire companies and their offshoot subsidiaries the car clubs, also how many are leased by people as a tax scam, you seem to be on a mission to make private car ownership the issue whereas the death congestion and other ills could just as likely be the result of cars that are not privately owned by individuals..............


You were quite clearly saying that you felt that paying VED etc gives car owners a right to park on the public road. I disagree.

As regards private cars vs car clubs/hires - there are two reasons why encouraging people to use hire cars instead of privately owning one:
1) More efficient use of resources - cars sit around unused for less of the time, meaning total no of cars required is less, meaning less paring space is needed
2) Peoples transport decisions are changed once they own a car - they have already invested money in it up front, and their decision to use car vs public transport for any given journey is then based on the marginal cost, ie. the extra cost per mile in fuel etc. This swings decisions in favour of using the car, whereas with a car club system the public transport option is more attractive in relative cost terms. The cost of using the car is higher, relatively, but they haven't already sunk a load of money into having it available, so it doesn't mean their travel costs are any higher overall. This is an effective way to get people to use public transport more, and cars less.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Dan U said:


> it was one example as to why it was a daft idea, as were the others i gave you. the idea that people who need a car would have to warehouse them somewhere some distance away from their homes was ridiculous when they have existing parking permits (for new developments it is a different proposition)
> 
> why not turn that around and have bike hangars somewhere?



The whole point of suggesting remote storage of cars was an illustration of the impracticality of having remotely stored bikes, as suggested by rushy. I was making the point that the same principle would be rejected by car owners so why should we expect bike owners to accept it.



Dan U said:


> having to ban cars from residential streets to please a group of people who can spend more money on their bikes than many families and older people can afford to spend on a car is laughable.



That's a completely false dichotomy.

Amongst bike owners there are some who spend a load on their bikes and some who don't 
Amongst car owners there are some who spend a load on their cars and some who don't 

The two groups of potential beneficiaries aren't divided in the way you suggest.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I assumed that, as you were responding to my posts, you were commenting on the comments I had made - which were several. I suspect that you may have extrapolated a little to much from some of the statements quoted but I can't speak for them. Suffice to say that I think the "it's fair, no it's not" argument is pointless from both sides.


Some of your comments to me seemed to imply expecting certain things from bike owners that we don't expect from car owners. You were effectively saying that bike owners are/would be prone to use the storage space iniefficiently - by owning more than one bike, or refusing to own bikes that are more efficiently stowable. But car parking space is not currently used efficiently. And it comes back to the 12 to 1 point - bike owners would have to be using the storage space *really* inefficiently for that to be a relevant point in the discussion of bike hangars vs care parking spaces. You'd have to own more than 12 bikes to be using the space more inefficiently than the single car owner you displace.

I think it's inevitable that it comes down to a fair/not fair argument.

Essentially, we are saying, is it fair to ask one person to give up their car parking space to provide 12 bike parking spaces?

I am saying: yes, it is. Do you disagree?


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## boohoo (Sep 30, 2014)

editor said:


> In case anyone's missed the other thread:
> The last days of Carlton Mansions, the evicted housing co-op in Coldharbour Lane, Brixton



Great photos - a sad day.


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> The whole point of suggesting remote storage of cars was an illustration of the impracticality of having remotely stored bikes, as suggested by rushy.


I suggested it if someone needed a second specialist bike for occasional or weekend use. You're so rabid about cars that you're not reading things properly.


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## leanderman (Sep 30, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> Umm not quite because the post of mine quoted by you was in response to a question asking why people felt they could store their property on the public highway, obviously because they feel that paying means they have a right to. Just as aside I wonder what proportion of cars on the road are corporate owned like the 200 owned by the company Manter referred to earlier, and countless others including the fleets of hire companies and their offshoot subsidiaries the car clubs, also how many are leased by people as a tax scam, you seem to be on a mission to make private car ownership the issue whereas the death congestion and other ills could just as likely be the result of cars that are not privately owned by individuals..............



Clearly wrong to lump share-scheme cars with company cars.

Do you know the proportion of private v corporate/company cars? 

I'd hazard a guess and say nearly 100 per cent of the cars on our stretch of Leander rd are private.

This is based on three years of asking owners to move them for our street party.


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## SpamMisery (Sep 30, 2014)

Road tax is refunded isn't it?


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## cuppa tee (Sep 30, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Clearly wrong to lump share-scheme cars with company cars.
> 
> Do you know the proportion of private v corporate/company cars?
> 
> ...



according to the dvla the bulk of new cars are registered to corporate fleets and to hire companies, after they have been used for a bit they are sold on to private owners, if the corporate interests weren't so bothered about image the price of second hand cars would rise and sales would drop.....


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 30, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Road tax is refunded isn't it?


Roads are paid for out of general taxation and belong as much to cyclists as they do to motorists.


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## sleaterkinney (Sep 30, 2014)

Also, the problem is not people buying expensive bikes, it's the fact that the cops do f.a. to stop stolen bike crime.


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## SpamMisery (Sep 30, 2014)

Sorry, I was confusing it with car tax (tax disc)


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## Rushy (Sep 30, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Sorry, I was confusing it with car tax (tax disc)


Same thing.
Although no discs anymore.


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## SpamMisery (Sep 30, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> Also, the problem is not people buying expensive bikes, it's the fact that the cops do f.a. to stop stolen bike crime.



Very true. Although, it's not a high priority in the grand scheme of things for them. 

Wankers are always round ours trying to nick bikes. I've kept mine indoors since the first attempted theft I suffered. Arseholes stole the wheels as they couldn't get the bike free. Totally fucked it in the process.


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## SpamMisery (Sep 30, 2014)

Of course it has, I'd forgotten. So we're both right


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## leanderman (Sep 30, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Very true. Although, it's not a high priority in the grand scheme of things for them.
> 
> Wankers are always round ours trying to nick bikes. I've kept mine indoors since the first attempted theft I suffered. Arseholes stole the wheels as they couldn't get the bike free. Totally fucked it in the process.



Not sure what is a high priority for the Met.

Fifteen days ago, we told police we had close-up CCTV images of a mugging gang.

They took five days to come to get the memory stick and, ten days later, they have still not examined the footage.


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## snowy_again (Sep 30, 2014)

Wow, I go and spend some more quality time with work and you lot have a constructive conversation about street use. 

My lock up at Herne Hill has got too full, which now means we have 6 different but regularly used bikes in a 1 bed flat with no outdoor space & the same Lambeth msg that my block might get hangers some time in the future - although it's noticeable that roads south of Effra Parade seem to have got more street shed things than the other end of Railton. 

I'm still pondering options, none of which involve selling a bike. I no longer own a car, but by their very nature even the shittest bike will be stripped & fenced for someone desperate for a fiver in a way that only after >5 car offences would get any where neat a custodial sentence; pah!


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## SpamMisery (Sep 30, 2014)

I'm still p too


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## han (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> To reject an exchange of this kind - 12 bike spaces versus 1 car space - surely you'd have to believe that there's a really good reason the car owner should have such massive priority. It seems that for some, the payment of VED and other costs justifies it. I'm saying they don't. They aren't sufficient to make this 1 for 12 exchange unfair.



I don't believe that car owners should have a massive priority. I just think that on our particular street they're an inefficient and extravagant way of storing bikes when there's so much outdoor space, front and back, to do so. I live in a street with no residents parking so everyone uses our street as a car park and it's a nightmare. 

However, I only use my van about once every six weeks to go outside London and I cycle daily into Central London as my main form of transport so can hardly be considered someone who puts the rights of car owners above those of cyclists. 

Bike hangars are great in locations where there is limited space for bikes and where car parking isn't such a problem. They work best in places where the needs of everyone involved have been carefully thought out and taken into account.


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## gaijingirl (Sep 30, 2014)

I've moved on from p.  I'm q now.


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## snowy_again (Sep 30, 2014)

Yes, my phone seems to hate vbulletin


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## snowy_again (Sep 30, 2014)

R now


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## leanderman (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> I live in a street with no residents parking so everyone uses our street as a car park and it's a nightmare.



Residents' parking is costly but quickly clears the streets


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## han (Sep 30, 2014)

I fear it wouldn't work in our street, and everyone always votes against it. The reason being, there's a huge block of private flats at the top of the road. Under the block is a huuge empty car park that residents have to pay an expensive annual fee to use. None of them pay it, instead they park in our street for free. Residents parking would mean we'd end up paying a few hundred quid a year for exactly the same situation we have now . 
Plus, the church and mosque at the top of our street use our street as a car park. Joy of joys.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I suggested it if someone needed a second specialist bike for occasional or weekend use. You're so rabid about cars that you're not reading things properly.


As far as I recall it went something like this - you were suggesting that instead of demanding on-street hangar space perhaps cyclists should adjust their bike ownership habits instead (or as well). One of your suggestions was that London cycle commuters own unnecessarily expensive bikes, and it's the value of the bikes that leads to the demand for protected storage. You said that expensive bikes weren't necessary for commuting. Others made the point that they don't just use their bike for commuting, they use it for leisure purposes too, and having a decent bike is important because of that. You suggested that they have one bike for commuting, and another more expensive one for leisure purposes. It was pointed out that then you still have the issue of storing the expensive one. It was at that point that you suggested the leisure bike could be stored remotely, or that a bike could be hired for leisure use. It was my opinion that this was not a practical idea, and it was at this point I made the comment about storing a car remotely. The point of the remark was to illustrate the impracticality of the proposal. Of course, I understand that storing a leisure bike remotely is not directly equivalent to storing your sole car remotely (although it could be argued that it *is* if you only use your car for non-commuting purposes). 

However, if we rewind to the beginning we can see that you were proposing a situation where someone owns a crappy bike for commuting (which they presumably chain to a lampost and accept that sometimes there will be wheels missing in the morning) plus an expensive bike which is stored in a lock up in zone 6 or something. This is a preposterous proposal in itself, but even more so if we examine what is it designed to avoid, namely the bike owner using one twelfth of the space required to park a car. 

So on one hand we have your proposal that a bike owner frees up *one twelfth* of a parking space by buying two bikes, storing the nicer one remotely and using the rubbish one every day (when it has wheels on).

On the other hand we have my illustrative proposal that a car owner frees up *a whole* parking space by storing their car remotely (and perhaps using other means to commute).

I ask you, sir, which of these proposals is more likely to indicate its author as a rabid maniac.


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## han (Sep 30, 2014)

I wouldn't mind storing my van remotely, actually, if such an option were available. 
We had our street resurfaced a couple of weeks ago and it was so nice having no vehicles at all on it.


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> I wouldn't mind storing my van remotely, actually, if such an option were available.



I'm sure an option of some kind is available. Perhaps what you need is an incentive?


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## Crispy (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> IResidents parking would mean we'd end up paying a few hundred quid a year for exactly the same situation we have now.


Sounds like a fair price to me.


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## paolo (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> ...there's a huge block of private flats at the top of the road. Under the block is a huuge empty car park that residents have to pay an expensive annual fee to use.



Do you know what the fee is for that car park? (I'm wondering how it would compare with a possible residents permit.)


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## han (Sep 30, 2014)

It's a few grand a year. So, over 10x what we'd pay for residents parking. 
I'd happily pay for residents parking if the residents of those flats utilised their huge empty car park.


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## paolo (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> It's a few grand a year. So, over 10x what we'd pay for residents parking.
> I'd happily pay for residents parking if the residents of those flats utilised their huge empty car park.



Gotcha. Sounds like a ridiculous situation.


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## han (Sep 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I'm sure an option of some kind is available. Perhaps what you need is an incentive?


I've already got an incentive! The inconvenience of having to sometimes wait for hours for a parking space even though I drive less than once a month, whilst people who don't live on our street park there all day after driving to park there, daily, to then get the bus or tube to work, whilst I cycle to work. 
Yes, if there was an option for remote parking I'd take it, but there isn't.


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## han (Sep 30, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Sounds like a fair price to me.


Would you pay £250+ a year for no guarantee of a parking space in a busy street where there's almost always no space? And which has a huge, empty, locked car park at one end?


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## teuchter (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> Yes, if there was an option for remote parking I'd take it, but there isn't.



https://www.justpark.com/  ?


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## Brixton Hatter (Sep 30, 2014)

BIGGUP THE BIKE HANGARS! I am 100% behind the on-street bike parking hangers. Great debate over recent pages. (Amazingly, I 'liked' about 5 teuchter posts in a row  )

I think the real issue is whether we want a "liveable" city - one where people can choose to travel around under their own steam (walking, cycling) in a pleasant environment, rather than one which is dominated by noisy, polluting motor vehicles. Lambeth has one of the most polluted streets in the UK (Brixton Road) - we need to change this.

We need to get more people cycling.

The bike hangars aren't a sop to middle class bike users who find it hard to store their £2,000 Pinarello. They are an important signal that bicycle transport is as valued as motor transport (which entirely dominates our city) - as well as a neat and practical solution for the many of us who live in cramped, converted flats, and struggle to store 5 bikes in a tiny hallway.

However, the bike hangars aren't enough - and Lambeth aren't going nearly as far enough with their cycling strategy. We will only truly get mass cycling in London if we build safe infrastructure that encourages people to cycle who do not do so currently. The roads need to be safe enough for your 8 year old kid or your 80 year old granny to ride on. This is why we need thing like proper, segregated cycle superhighways.

High quality, safe cycling infrastructure will get more and more Londoners cycling and our city will benefit hugely as a result.

And then people will be crying out for more bike hangars on the street.


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## Brixton Hatter (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> ...even though I drive less than once a month...


Sell the van, join a car club, hire the van once a month (about £12/hour) - surely that's cheaper?


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## Crispy (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> Would you pay £250+ a year for no guarantee of a parking space in a busy street where there's almost always no space? And which has a huge, empty, locked car park at one end?


Well no, I don't consider owning a car to be worth the time and money. If I had to have one though, I'd accept that sort of price for the privelege of parking it on a public street.


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## leanderman (Sep 30, 2014)

han said:


> people who don't live on our street park there all day after driving to park there, daily, to then get the bus or tube to work, whilst I cycle to work.



This suggests a residents' parking scheme might help.


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## leanderman (Oct 1, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Lidl Brixton has opened a French fine wine section. Up to £25.99 (!) for a bottle of Bordeaux.



Whole section all but sold out in Acre Lane today. Empty shelves


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## Winot (Oct 1, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Not sure what is a high priority for the Met.
> 
> Fifteen days ago, we told police we had close-up CCTV images of a mugging gang.
> 
> They took five days to come to get the memory stick and, ten days later, they have still not examined the footage.



A friend in Herne Hill had her car stolen from a car park with CCTV.  She reported it to the Met and they suggested that she get hold of the CCTV footage and investigate it herself.  Big Society huh?

By contrast, when we had a (failed) break-in attempt on New Year's Day, Mrs W reported it online just to make sure the statistic was logged, and within 20 mins had forensics round and follow ups from victim support etc.


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## Winot (Oct 1, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Whole section all but sold out in Acre Lane today. Empty shelves



And I never even made it there


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## Ms T (Oct 1, 2014)

The most polluted street in the UK is Oxford Street. And there are very few private cars - mostly buses and taxis!


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## dotdotdot (Oct 1, 2014)

I've heard a rumour that Pizza Express is buying/ has bought Franco's, anyone know more about this?


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## editor (Oct 1, 2014)

October thread is here!
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/brixton-news-rumour-and-general-chat-october-2014.327886/


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