# Peter Crouch joins the Dulwich Hamlet board



## editor (Jun 22, 2021)

Just announced!


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## Sue (Jun 22, 2021)

I thought you meant on here...


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## Noss (Jun 23, 2021)

Is this in any way related: Peter Crouch lands brand new reality TV show to save failing football club ?


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## editor (Jun 23, 2021)

Noss said:


> Is this in any way related: Peter Crouch lands brand new reality TV show to save failing football club ?


Oh Gawd.


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## Moroccan Sunset (Jun 23, 2021)

Noss said:


> Is this in any way related: Peter Crouch lands brand new reality TV show to save failing football club ?



Just seen this too. Too much of a coincidence, got to be us.


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## Moroccan Sunset (Jun 23, 2021)

Also, hate to be pedantic, but Crouch played for us when he was 19, not 17.


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## Paula_G (Jun 23, 2021)

Moroccan Sunset said:


> Just seen this too. Too much of a coincidence, got to be us.


Looking forward to it… Ready for my close-up Mr De Mille! Now where do I find a good agent…


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 23, 2021)

Fucking hell really? How shit does that sound?


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## editor (Jun 23, 2021)

Moroccan Sunset said:


> Just seen this too. Too much of a coincidence, got to be us.



The days of '_The Dulwich Hamlet will not be televised_' suddenly seem a very long time ago. 

Celebrity led TV reality shows are just the fucking worst.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2021)

And we only get to hear of it via the Daily Mirror?


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## Paula_G (Jun 23, 2021)

The difference here is that Crouchy understands what this level of football is about. Amazing to be introduced to him last night & after 20 years he still remembered despite the changes! The one thing that does piss me off in the article is referring to Dulwich as a “failing” club; struggling maybe a lot of it through no fault of our own but definitely NOT “failing” 😤


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## Paula_G (Jun 23, 2021)

PS If anyone managed to grab a shot of yours truly with the “Twenty Foot Chicken” (joke for the older Hamlet fan) I’d love to see them as I might need them to convince my boss to rearrange my rota for filming!


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## darryl (Jun 23, 2021)

editor said:


> And we only get to hear of it via the Daily Mirror?



A Mirror website report quoting a Sun exclusive, in fact: Peter Crouch bags new TV show with  wife Abbey as he tries to save a footy club

The Sun, that well-known supporter of football. Think Discovery and Workerbee have some questions to answer.


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## Pink Panther (Jun 23, 2021)

_"As well as using his coaching skills, he will be thinking outside the box in a bid to get fans coming through the doors."_

That explains his comments last night about working with Gavin and the players but not wanting to interfere. 

Getting fans coming through the doors has been the least of our worries for the last few years, we've barely got space for everyone who turns up!

I think we should reserve judgement before criticising this. Let's not forget the club has been hit harder than most others by the pandemic, precisely because we're so reliant upon matchday income. The consensus is clearly that we don't want big money investors taking control and setting their own agenda for the club. A well known individual coming on board and generating commercial opportunities without a complete change of direction can hopefully aid the club's smooth recovery from the pandemic and the transition to the new ground.


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## darryl (Jun 23, 2021)

this looks like the official press release: Worker Bee preps Crouch football doc for Discovery - Televisual


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## Nivag (Jun 23, 2021)

Remember to take everything you read with a pinch of salt, I'm guessing it's being worded for TV/press land


Anyhoo, some nice pix here from Rob and Liam


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## editor (Jun 23, 2021)

darryl said:


> this looks like the official press release: Worker Bee preps Crouch football doc for Discovery - Televisual





> Will he treat supporters to a half-time DJ set and a ‘robot’ dance?


Please, no.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 23, 2021)

Is crouching Peter a hidden dragon?


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## Roger D (Jun 23, 2021)

Interesting.

Those of us of a certain vintage will just be relieved it isn't a reprise of the last straight to DVD, film shot at the Hill purporting to be Hamlet. I'll spare you the details as it's been given enough publicity here before. 

In reality some of those involved had departed to Carshalton. As one of our official gleefully pointed out to a Robins official who was haranguing him over it.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2021)

Buzz article Peter Crouch returns to Dulwich Hamlet FC to feature in new Discovery TV series


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## Stuart Fordyce (Jun 23, 2021)

So is he joining Gavin and Junior in the dugout? Is he going to join Danny Mills for the tallest forward line in football?


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## T Corcoran (Jun 23, 2021)

First the worlds tallest goalkeeper now potentially the worlds tallest strike partnership 😂😂


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## sleaterkinney (Jun 23, 2021)

What do we gain out of this?.


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## Moroccan Sunset (Jun 23, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> What do we gain out of this?.



Without wishing to sound too crude, probably publicity and cash.

Agree with Pink Panther's sentiments above though - the club must have taken one helluva financial whack (as indeed most businesses have) over the last 18 months. If doing a documentary with Peter Crouch, who does have a genuine connection to our club, and getting him on the board of directors helps ease some of the problems, then I can only see it as a positive. Well done to whoever got it sorted.

There's clearly a marketing bent to this, but also worth remembering the story around Crouch's stint as a Dulwich player: when we sold Dave McEwen to Spurs, they offered us 3 players on loan in return. Two of them reportedly refused to stoop as low as the Ryman Premier and were ultimately hoofed out the club. Crouch was the only one that said he'd drop down and play for us. Clearly an awful lot has happened since then, but he wasn't an egotist as a 19 year old professional and part of me hopes/thinks that maybe that humility and groundedness is still there. He's obviously getting something out of this with the TV deal, but it sounds like he's ensuring the club benefits as well - remarkable for a bloke that only played 6 games for us over twenty years ago.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2021)

I rather hoped that yesterday's announcement was that we were going to drop down a league or two and tell the National League to GTFO. 

I'm sure Crouch has got a lot to offer the club, but given that the ground has been pretty much full for the 12 months (pre Covid) this is just going to make the place even more rammed (post Covid restrictions) - and lure in a load of numpties who want to run shoulders with celebrities or get their face on TV. 

I can definitely see how it might be good for the club's finances, but perhaps not so good for a certain section of the fan base who prefer their nonleague football without a reality TV show attached.


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## cybershot (Jun 23, 2021)

it’s the nicest guy ever in football. There’s no way it will be made to make him or the club look stupid.


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## David Clapson (Jun 23, 2021)

editor said:


> I rather hoped that yesterday's announcement was that we were going to drop down a league or two and tel the National League to GTFO.
> 
> I'm sure Crouch has got a lot to offer the club, but given that the ground has been pretty much full for the 12 months (pre Covid) this is just going to make the place even more rammed (post Covid restrictions) - and lure in a load of numpties who want to run shoulders with celebrities or get their face on TV.
> 
> I can definitely see how it might be good for the club's finances, but perhaps not so good for a certain section of the fan base who prefer their nonleague football without a reality TV show attached.


Hopefully the downside will be temporary because the numpties won't stick around after the cameras have gone. But the club will have a nice boost to its finances which could make life easier for quite a while.


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## Roger D (Jun 23, 2021)

cybershot said:


> it’s the nicest guy ever in football. There’s no way it will be made to make him or the club look stupid.


Peter isn't likely to have much control over what is / isn't aired. That's the domain of others.

If it's people who understand non league or have open minds, it should be ok. If they turn up with pre-conceived ideas, it could get interesting. I'm sure the club will have done some background checks prior to signing off on this.

Memories of a 4-4-2 article, when it was highly respected. A journo turned up when we played Hendon away. He clearly already knew his angle. It was North v South London, two teams who hated each other and 22 pub players who had stinking hangovers and no talent.

Actually most of the 22 players had been on the books at a professional team at some point. It was a decent game with few fouls and the two clubs got on fine. Hamlet Supporters won the Hendon fundraising quiz a week or two earlier.

It probably flogged a few magazines though.


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## Paula_G (Jun 24, 2021)

The “numpties” won’t be the ones getting their faces on television anymore than they might do on an average Saturday on MOTD. A lot of what goes on screen will be behind the scenes focusing on the volunteers & fans dealing with the day to day running of the club along with things like fundraising & Dulwich’s incredible record of inclusivity. Feel very proud, incredibly humbled and even more accepted for who I am to be part of this… 🏳️‍⚧️


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## 1927 (Jun 24, 2021)

As an outsider with no connection to Dulwich whatsoever, apart from travelling through as a kid when my grandparents lived in West Wickham, and a sister who lives in Forest Hill and who’s partner and son are West Han fans, but do attend games at Champion Hill (I believe)  I can see the benefits. I have only been interested  in DH as a result of my presence on these boards,  but have come to love them through their upheavals and they are everything that a community club should be. Maybe the increased exposure will increase not just physical attendances, but interested non attendees like myself. Surely that can only be a good thing!  I am quite prepared to be told I’m wrong.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 24, 2021)

1927 said:


> Maybe the increased exposure will increase not just physical attendances, but interested non attendees like myself. Surely that can only be a good thing!  I am quite prepared to be told I’m wrong.



The thing with this is that Dulwich really don't have a problem with attendance except for people not currently being allowed in. Before Covid the ground was already creaking at the seams trying to accommodate everyone. This programme seems to be already setting up a 'poor old non-league club struggling to get more than a handful of fans before Crouchy and his TV cameras showed up' narrative which really isn't the case.


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## 1927 (Jun 24, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The thing with this is that Dulwich really don't have a problem with attendance except for people not currently being allowed in. Before Covid the ground was already creaking at the seams trying to accommodate everyone. This programme seems to be already setting up a 'poor old non-league club struggling to get more than a handful of fans before Crouchy and his TV cameras showed up' narrative which really isn't the case.


Hence my post about interest amongst non attendees!


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## EDC (Jun 24, 2021)

The Discovery Channel is getting the boot from BTTV's Now TV entertainment package so I haven't got a clue at present how it's able to be watched.


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## Dodger (Jun 24, 2021)

Fuck this, if anyone thinks this will be good for the club they’re deluded.


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## editor (Jun 24, 2021)

1927 said:


> Maybe the increased exposure will increase not just physical attendances, but interested non attendees like myself. Surely that can only be a good thing!  I am quite prepared to be told I’m wrong.


I'm not sure that the club really needs that many more people coming through the turnstiles as it was running at near-capacity before Covid struck and enjoying the highest attendances in the league (and was attracting bigger crowds than many clubs a division or two above us).

I have to say it wasn't the greatest place to watch a game when it was rammed full in terms of sightlines and I can't imagine this extra interest benefitting those who already struggled to get a view on matchdays.


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## Stuart Fordyce (Jun 24, 2021)

The current Champion Hill setup doesn't lend itself to big crowds. Unless you get right down at the barrier or a seat in the stand you struggle to see. We need more staggered terracing, or you have to turn up at 2ish for a 3pm kick off. In the old days I could do that and have a pint. If I want to take the wee one now that's not so easy, as it's a lot of hanging around.


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## darryl (Jun 24, 2021)

EDC said:


> The Discovery Channel is getting the boot from BTTV's Now TV entertainment package so I haven't got a clue at present how it's able to be watched.



They have their own streaming platform, Discovery+, which will get massive promotion soon as Discovery/Eurosport has rights to the Olympics with every event on there (ie more than the BBC).

Discovery also own Quest on Freeview channel 12, which is where the Football League highlights live these days, so it'll probably pop up on steam TVs at some point.


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## darryl (Jun 24, 2021)

No statement from the club either on this documentary, yet details have already been appeared as an exclusive in The Sun, the newspaper that lied about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough.

Especially since we were all asked to turn up at Champion Hill on Tuesday to act as unwitting extras for this programme. Perhaps we should ask for our faces to be pixellated out.

This isn't good, is it?


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## editor (Jun 24, 2021)

darryl said:


> No statement from the club either on this documentary, yet details have already been appeared as an exclusive in The Sun, the newspaper that lied about Liverpool fans at Hillsborough.
> 
> Especially since we were all asked to turn up at Champion Hill on Tuesday to act as unwitting extras for this programme. Perhaps we should ask for our faces to be pixellated out.
> 
> This isn't good, is it?


Absolutely spot on. I've not heard a thing from the club.


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## Paula_G (Jun 25, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The thing with this is that Dulwich really don't have a problem with attendance except for people not currently being allowed in. Before Covid the ground was already creaking at the seams trying to accommodate everyone. This programme seems to be already setting up a 'poor old non-league club struggling to get more than a handful of fans before Crouchy and his TV cameras showed up' narrative which really isn't the case.


That couldn’t be further from the truth… This will be looking at the sort of alternative income streams that will enable the Hamlet to be self sustaining & competitive as one of the few clubs at this level of football whose primary source of income is the fans coming through the turnstiles. The difference between the sort of budget required to be competitive at NLS as opposed to NL top level is eye watering with the potential for the budget to be as much as tripled. The aim is that these alternative income streams will enable the club to keep admission prices within everyone’s reach without the need to bring in the sort of sugar daddy investment that other less well-supported clubs rely on.


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## KentyinWeardale (Jun 25, 2021)

Bloody hell, if you're a failing club what does that make the others at your level and below


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## Paula_G (Jun 25, 2021)

Why do people keep saying they have heard nothing from the club? Agreed there has been nothing on the website but there has been plenty on the social media channels as well as articles in both local newspapers the Southwark News and the South London Press with the chairman quoted in the former… It seems to me that it is not any lack of information that people seem to be concerned about but the fact Dulwich Hamlet are the subject of a “reality TV” documentary. Really wondering what they are expecting? A “Love Island” style pre-season trials for the teams? Scripted “Made on Champion Hill” or “The Only Way is East Dulwich”? Jeez if that were the case I’d have signed up a agent straight away, demanded a trailer & full rider and into a Harley Street for bit of face & body work & a more feminine nose…


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## Paula_G (Jun 25, 2021)

KentyinWeardale said:


> Bloody hell, if you're a failing club what does that make the others at your level and below


Well personally think the Mirror might have a vacancy for a sub-editor given that a couple of paragraphs later it becomes “ailing football club”..


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 25, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Why do people keep saying they have heard nothing from the club? Agreed there has been nothing on the website but there has been plenty on the social media channels as well as articles in both local newspapers the Southwark News and the South London Press with the chairman quoted in the former… It seems to me that it is not any lack of information that people seem to be concerned about but the fact Dulwich Hamlet are the subject of a “reality TV” documentary. Really wondering what they are expecting? A “Love Island” style pre-season trials for the teams? Scripted “Made on Champion Hill” or “The Only Way is East Dulwich”? Jeez if that were the case I’d have signed up a agent straight away, demanded a trailer & full rider and into a Harley Street for bit of face & body work & a more feminine nose…



There's plenty of stuff about Crouch of course but not this TV program - that looks to be deliberately avoiding mentioning it to be quite honest.

And people might have a better idea of what it's about if they were actually told. I'm sceptical it will be the first of this sort of programme not to be shit though.


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## AveryDave (Jun 25, 2021)

Clearly the club feel like they're doing this for the right reasons, and we should trust that, but equally it's understandable that people will have concerns without knowing more about it or seeing the output.

The media companies will of course be in it to make money and the test will be whether they're happy to try and do that at the expense of the club and those involved. That the club have already had to have a conversation with those companies about aligning the project to our values is a slight worry, but maybe better to get that clarity at the outset than later on.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic until there's reason to feel otherwise - let's hope there isn't.


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## Paula_G (Jun 25, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> There's plenty of stuff about Crouch of course but not this TV program - that looks to be deliberately avoiding mentioning it to be quite honest.
> 
> And people might have a better idea of what it's about if they were actually told. I'm sceptical it will be the first of this sort of programme not to be shit though.


We have thousands of supporters, both regulars at games, occasional attendees and ones restricted to virtual attendees via social media etc… It almost sounds as you asking for virtual control being exercised  over what is and isn’t included in the documentary by those supporters and that you have little trust in the board, management, Supporters and fans already involved in this. Blimey if it carried on like that it would end up like the “MyFootballClub” debacle at Ebbsfleet… While I have read some genuine concerns I also read comments from others who seem to be of the Groucho Marx “Whatever it is I’m against it” persuasion.


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## Pink Panther (Jun 25, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> There's plenty of stuff about Crouch of course but not this TV program - that looks to be deliberately avoiding mentioning it to be quite honest.
> 
> And people might have a better idea of what it's about if they were actually told. I'm sceptical it will be the first of this sort of programme not to be shit though.


It appears the club, for whatever reason, isn't ready to release news of any television show just yet. The Mirror/Sun articles didn't mention our club, so presumably there was some sort of embargo on naming the club, but our supporters have just put two and two together and concluded it's us. So far I've seen no discussion of the story on wider social media, though no doubt someone will pick up on it sooner or later and we'll get the inevitable sneering from rival supporters. 

Personally I'm disinterested in the television thing. All I ask is that Peter Crouch is in it for the long haul and will continue to play a positive role in the running of the club well beyond the lifespan of an 8 part documentary series.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Why do people keep saying they have heard nothing from the club?


Because it's true? Before I published the Buzz article I'd been in touch with someone at the club asking if there was a club statement available and was told a 'joint statement' from the broadcaster and club was coming, but nothing materialised.

There's still nothing on the club website, yesterday's 'Dulwich Hamlet Football Club Weekly Roundup' makes no mention of it and I've yet to see an official press release. And I do find that a bit disappointing, to be honest. It feels like the fans are very much being kept out of the loop.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2021)

Things have got a bit lively on Twitter


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## Christian Burt (Jun 25, 2021)

I'm not convinced that Peter Crouch can bring to the football side of things anything additional that a competent managerial team shouldn't be able to already deliver at our level. Most of the news item listed reasons for the Crouch appointment are, dare I say, wishy-washy at best.

It is a bit of a side-show, which some fans will have absolutely zero problem with (and will actually embrace and have a right to enjoy the ride) and others might view as the continuation of a very media-driven football club. I'm not convinced that this TV programme is a _necessary_ evil given our healthy attendances etc, but on the flip side our income must have been vastly reduced plus the fine etc.

I was invited Tuesday but couldn't attend, but I'd have felt like a clapping seal if Peter Crouch the Director, was actually Peter Crouch the Director during the making of a documentary about an "ailing" football club. I also feel there is a over-defensive side of the Board right now; it's non-league, we all get into it and dare I say we all get a bit precious as fans. No-one is mocking effort, but on several occasions the club representatives get overly-twitchy around genuine fan concerns ergo the fans are then told, in a round about way, that they "are never happy" etc.

On a positive note, I have *100% confidence* that the club always take an excellent stance against The Sun newspaper.

Maybe like some others I am just long in the tooth and not a massive fan of this current era of DHFC, or my perhaps own interests have moved on to other things. DHFC isn't on my current essential to-do list, so I am also keen to avoid being a typical older moaning football fan, when for so many it is a place of great fun and happy happy joy joy!


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## Paula_G (Jun 25, 2021)

Christian Burt said:


> I'm not convinced that Peter Crouch can bring to the football side of things anything additional that a competent managerial team shouldn't be able to already deliver at our level. Most of the news item listed reasons for the Crouch appointment are, dare I say, wishy-washy at best.


Well on the coaching side of things Peter is said he’s here to learn more than again else as he’s currently taking his coaching badges. When I wandered upstairs for the Ing-ur-land game Crouchy was in deep conversation with Marvin & the DHFC Women’s coaches. Gavin was also there so if he felt threatened by the “new lad” there was nothing in his body language or demeanour to suggest that…

For those that weren’t there Peter is being interviewed on ITV London News from 6pm with a couple of club representatives from both sides of the spectrum (be kind to me please!) one of the young players from the women’s team who wasn’t even born when Crouchy was at Champion Hill & this old girl who still recalls the “Twenty Foot Chicken” (or 12 foot the years have taken their toll!)


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## Pink Panther (Jun 25, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> For those that weren’t there Peter is being interviewed on ITV London News from 6pm with a couple of club representatives from both sides of the spectrum (be kind to me please!) one of the young players from the women’s team who wasn’t even born when Crouchy was at Champion Hill & this old girl who still recalls the “Twenty Foot Chicken” (or 12 foot the years have taken their toll!)


The 20 foot chicken thing came from this Alan Partridge sketch:


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## Effra Eyes (Jun 25, 2021)

I did the initial introductions between the club and the production company, and helped out on Tuesday so thought I would add some comments and hopefully alleviate some fears. The below are my thoughts/ observations and not those of DHFC or Workerbee ( hereon in known as 'The Production Company')

It seems, the current lack of info is neither the fault of the Club or the Production Company. It’s just the nature of dealing with a broadcaster owned by a huge multi-national company.

Things take longer to be signed off than expected and must go through the correct channels. I’m sure the delay is as frustrating for those running the club/ production as it is for the fans. But more information will be available soon. Indeed from what I can tell, the plan was to reveal all on Tuesday, but this was delayed further up the food chain and beyond anyone at the Club or Productions Companies control.

In the meantime, I would ask that you treat tabloid reporting for what it is. For instance, the phrase ‘reality show’ is utterly misleading and has come from those organs' own staff, not the program-makers/ broadcaster, who very much don't see the project that way.

Due to my status as a Hamlet fan and rank and file infantry TV freelancer, I’ve been asked many times over the years by production companies I've worked for/know to help them approach Hamlet about access for filming. This is the first and only time I’ve agreed, due to my trust in the people involved at the top of this particular Production Company and respect for their work.

If anyone who was there on Tuesday feels that they don’t want their face to be featured in the program, please do DM me and I can pass this info onto the Production team who will ensure you are omitted.  On a more general note about Tuesday, Claire stepped in to help me gather people at the Prod Co's request, so please send any queries/ complaints my way, not hers.

And finally, happy to discuss further with any fan, please DM.


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## Christian Burt (Jun 25, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Well on the coaching side of things Peter is said he’s here to learn more than again else as he’s currently taking his coaching badges. When I wandered upstairs for the Ing-ur-land game Crouchy was in deep conversation with Marvin & the DHFC Women’s coaches. Gavin was also there so if he felt threatened by the “new lad” there was nothing in his body language or demeanour to suggest that…
> 
> For those that weren’t there Peter is being interviewed on ITV London News from 6pm with a couple of club representatives from both sides of the spectrum (be kind to me please!) one of the young players from the women’s team who wasn’t even born when Crouchy was at Champion Hill & this old girl who still recalls the “Twenty Foot Chicken” (or 12 foot the years have taken their toll!)


Honestly don't feel our Gav is the type to ever feel threatened by anyone of anything! Fair point though re "here to learn".
To me, Crouch isn't really a Dulwich ex player, just a guy on loan for a few matches who went on to have a surprisingly good career. First saw him in a dour 0-0 Palace vs Portsmouth Championship game when I'd actually gone to to watch Prosinecki! Who was injured or more likely smoking & drinking somewhere more fun than Selhurst Park.
Tell you what, the lad who set this all off - Dave McEwan - was hugely talented. Not many get signed from the Isthmian League to the top flight. Think injuries and not adapting to pro training ended his hopes at Spurs? That fella was sensational.


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## Christian Burt (Jun 25, 2021)

Effra Eyes said:


> I did the initial introductions between the club and the production company, and helped out on Tuesday so thought I would add some comments and hopefully alleviate some fears. The below are my thoughts/ observations and not those of DHFC or Workerbee ( hereon in known as 'The Production Company')
> 
> It seems, the current lack of info is neither the fault of the Club or the Production Company. It’s just the nature of dealing with a broadcaster owned by a huge multi-national company.
> 
> ...


This is a helpful post - thank you for taking time out to explain a little more. I still fall in the "avoid such media" but fair play for posting and for many it will be interesting as a final cut!


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## Effra Eyes (Jun 25, 2021)

Christian Burt said:


> This is a helpful post - thank you for taking time out to explain a little more. I still fall in the "avoid such media" but fair play for posting and for many it will be interesting as a final cut!


Thanks Christian, I'll be happy to post more, again in a personal capacity, once the official announcement comes from the broadcaster.


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## Paula_G (Jun 25, 2021)

Pink Panther said:


> The 20 foot chicken thing came from this Alan Partridge sketch:



Phew got it right!


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## darryl (Jun 25, 2021)

the statement has arrived: https://www.pitchero.com/clubs/dulw...rs-and-stakeholders-june-25-2021-2626220.html


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## B.I.G (Jun 25, 2021)

Now Peter Crouch is a director maybe he will have input on separating ASPIRE from the club.

Or sacking Gavin for underperforming.
Or both?


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## EDC (Jun 25, 2021)

I could be standing right in front of a camera and it would miss me.


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## Paula_G (Jun 25, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Now Peter Crouch is a director maybe he will have input on separating ASPIRE from the club.
> 
> Or sacking Gavin for underperforming.
> Or both?


Why should ASPIRE be separated from the club? You do realise that in order to compete in competitions like the FA Youth Cup the Academy has to be affiliated with a Senior Club?


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## B.I.G (Jun 25, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Why should ASPIRE be separated from the club? You do realise that in order to compete in competitions like the FA Youth Cup the Academy has to be affiliated with a Senior Club?



Does the ownership of the club reflect the ownership of the academy? If it does not what do we get out of the relationship.
Other than a manager we can’t sack without losing the academy.


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## tonysingh (Jun 25, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Now Peter Crouch is a director maybe he will have input on separating ASPIRE from the club.
> 
> Or sacking Gavin for underperforming.
> Or both?





B.I.G said:


> Does the ownership of the club reflect the ownership of the academy? If it does not what do we get out of the relationship.
> Other than a manager we can’t sack without losing the academy.



Diplomatic and not at all shit stirring as always. I love you.


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## B.I.G (Jun 25, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Diplomatic and not at all shit stirring as always. I love you.



I love you too. Though I’ve seen some of your pet projects lately. I do not. Repeat do not want to be fed to any. Just knock me out and bury me please.


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## Moroccan Sunset (Jun 25, 2021)

Christian Burt said:


> Honestly don't feel our Gav is the type to ever feel threatened by anyone of anything! Fair point though re "here to learn".
> To me, Crouch isn't really a Dulwich ex player, just a guy on loan for a few matches who went on to have a surprisingly good career. First saw him in a dour 0-0 Palace vs Portsmouth Championship game when I'd actually gone to to watch Prosinecki! Who was injured or more likely smoking & drinking somewhere more fun than Selhurst Park.
> Tell you what, the lad who set this all off - Dave McEwan - was hugely talented. Not many get signed from the Isthmian League to the top flight. Think injuries and not adapting to pro training ended his hopes at Spurs? That fella was sensational.



Absolutely, 100% - I was only 7 when he played for us but even I could tell he was exceptional. Still vividly remember him, Kevin Smith, Dave Stevens (slim version) and Danny Carroll - particularly the buzz on the match days that immediately followed when we'd successfully nabbed the latter from Bromley!

McEwen was brilliant - real shame he didn't get more of a crack in the professional game and double shame that he seems to have dropped off the radar. If there is one ex Dulwich player that I'd like to see an interview from, it'd be him, without a doubt. Made numerous attempts to find him when I was at uni, but to no avail. ☹


----------



## tonysingh (Jun 25, 2021)

Moroccan Sunset said:


> Absolutely, 100% - I was only 7 when he played for us but even I could tell he was exceptional. Still vividly remember him, Kevin Smith, Dave Stevens (slim version) and Danny Carroll - particularly the buzz on the match days that immediately followed when we'd successfully nabbed the latter from Bromley!
> 
> McEwen was brilliant - real shame he didn't get more of a crack in the professional game and double shame that he seems to have dropped off the radar. If there is one ex Dulwich player that I'd like to see an interview from, it'd be him, without a doubt. Made numerous attempts to find him when I was at uni, but to no avail. ☹




You were 7 when Crouch played for us? Seven? 

Fuck, i feel even more like a dinosaur now.


----------



## Mation (Jun 25, 2021)

Nivag said:


> Remember to take everything you read with a pinch of salt, I'm guessing it's being worded for TV/press land
> 
> 
> Anyhoo, some nice pix here from Rob and Liam



Have all the Bee Gees been accounted for?


----------



## Pink Panther (Jun 25, 2021)

Moroccan Sunset said:


> McEwen was brilliant - real shame he didn't get more of a crack in the professional game and double shame that he seems to have dropped off the radar. If there is one ex Dulwich player that I'd like to see an interview from, it'd be him, without a doubt. Made numerous attempts to find him when I was at uni, but to no avail. ☹


He'll be in his forties now of course. He had a season at QPR after leaving Spurs but didn't make much impression there either. Then he resurfaced at Hertford Town under our former reserves manager Brian Owen. I believe he had a good job in The City.


----------



## Moroccan Sunset (Jun 25, 2021)

Pink Panther said:


> He'll be in his forties now of course. He had a season at QPR after leaving Spurs but didn't make much impression there either. Then he resurfaced at Hertford Town under our former reserves manager Brian Owen. I believe he had a good job in The City.



And that's where the trail runs cold. Last I heard he'd left The City, but no one seems to know where. Shame, really.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 25, 2021)

New Dulwich Hamlet director Peter Crouch sends warning over 'bleak future' | ITV News
					

Crouch was appointed to Dulwich Hamlet’s board this week, but warned the club is facing serious financial problems | ITV News London




					www.itv.com
				




We are going bankrupt again I see. No doubt this will result in the manager resigning, players turning out for free due to a non-existent wage budget and a return to the Isthmian league. 

Or Not?

Well the last one might happens if Gavin stays in charge and the PR fails to get him a move to run the youth setup at a league club.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 25, 2021)

Financial ruin 😂😂😂


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 25, 2021)

Former footballer Peter Crouch has promised to help save Dulwich Hamlet from financial ruin after being appointed as director, admitting the club’s future “looks bleak”.

100% banter appointment.


----------



## Roger D (Jun 26, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> New Dulwich Hamlet director Peter Crouch sends warning over 'bleak future' | ITV News
> 
> 
> Crouch was appointed to Dulwich Hamlet’s board this week, but warned the club is facing serious financial problems | ITV News London
> ...


Dulwich Hamlet have never gone bankrupt. It would have done but for the likes of Pa Wilson and the Goodliffe's paying the bills however this remains the club Pa founded in 1893. It's changed legal status to the shareholder owned club you see today but has not gone bankrupt.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 26, 2021)

Roger D said:


> Dulwich Hamlet have never gone bankrupt. It would have done but for the likes of Pa Wilson and the Goodliffe's paying the bills however this remains the club Pa founded in 1893. It's changed legal status to the shareholder owned club you see today but has not gone bankrupt.



Thanks for that. How you getting on tracking down those rogue MPs?


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jun 26, 2021)

Moroccan Sunset said:


> Absolutely, 100% - I was only 7 when he played for us but even I could tell he was exceptional. Still vividly remember him, Kevin Smith, Dave Stevens (slim version) and Danny Carroll - particularly the buzz on the match days that immediately followed when we'd successfully nabbed the latter from Bromley!
> 
> McEwen was brilliant - real shame he didn't get more of a crack in the professional game and double shame that he seems to have dropped off the radar. If there is one ex Dulwich player that I'd like to see an interview from, it'd be him, without a doubt. Made numerous attempts to find him when I was at uni, but to no avail. ☹


Were you studying to be a private investigator?


----------



## Roger D (Jun 26, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Thanks for that. How you getting on tracking down those rogue MPs?


As someone who lives in a Tory safe seat and who e-mailed my MP, a minister, asking how he could justify Hancock telling my step children they can't hugh their partners when Matt was banning it, I stand by my call.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 27, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Does the ownership of the club reflect the ownership of the academy? If it does not what do we get out of the relationship.
> Other than a manager we can’t sack without losing the academy.


Bringing an Academy team that is affiliated to the club rather than part of it is simply cost effective… There are many other clubs at this level who have a similar set up. Things may well change when the new ground is complete enabling the ASPIRE Academy to operate from Champion Hill even if Gavin is no longer manager, after all a number of the Academy coaches are former Dulwich players who have moved on…


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 27, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Bringing an Academy team that is affiliated to the club rather than part of it is simply cost effective… There are many other clubs at this level who have a similar set up. Things may well change when the new ground is complete enabling the ASPIRE Academy to operate from Champion Hill even if Gavin is no longer manager, after all a number of the Academy coaches are former Dulwich players who have moved on…



Perhaps you would like to comment on my other thread.









						Dulwich Hamlet vs ASPIRE
					

In this thread we discuss the relationship between ASPIRE and Dulwich Hamlet FC.  Especially as we have a new director who has stated that the future “looks bleak”.  We have a manager that also runs an academy that is linked to the club in some way I believe.  Anyone wish to comment on how this...




					www.urban75.net
				




As a member of the football committee prior to the current ownership you may have some insight.


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2021)

Disappointed to see Crouch doing betting adverts on TV.











						The pandemic has triggered a British online gambling crisis
					

Stuck at home during the pandemic, problem gamblers have been hounded by betting ads




					www.wired.co.uk
				












						Experts fear a rise in online gambling harm as UK industry awaits crucial review
					

Since the onset of the coronavirus pandemic, gambling companies in Britain have looked to shore up and expand their online offerings.




					www.cnbc.com


----------



## tonysingh (Jun 27, 2021)

editor said:


> Disappointed to see Crouch doing betting adverts on TV.
> 
> View attachment 275673
> 
> ...



I liked that we stood against the insidious evil of the gambling industry. Really quite disappointed by this  brave new world that lies ahead of us now.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 27, 2021)

Abhor Paddy Power more than most mainly due to their hideously transphobic adverts of the past however this has to be a matter for Peter’s own conscience. Perhaps this documentary gives the club the chance to emphasise our values in relation to betting a wider airing. I’m prepared to see the positive slant to this. After all hands up anyone that walked out of the Carlisle United FA Cup game because of the 888 Sport adverts and demanded that in future Dulwich Hamlet did not enter the FA Cup to avoid a similar association with betting companies?


----------



## PartisanDulwich (Jun 28, 2021)

We try to be an ethical club - we will always have challenges
nobody said it was easy
It's what we can do to make lives better - under present system always going to be compromises (with the exception of equality issues - where there can be no compromise)

just as with the "bleak future" spin for Crouch announcement - he has his agenda and his objectives - many of which will benefit the Club - some may be a distraction

However, do think we need to work out a line on the Sun (the Club official line ie will not issue or respond to requests from the Sun- hope that's still the case) obviously it's up to individuals what approach they personally take

regarding betting, our line surely remains where possible the club will avoid betting advertising or machines on site

Its going to be a roller coaster - sure the Clubs officers have already explored many of our concerns and I am sure our fans wont be shy on coming forward should that not be the case - but hopeful this is a partnership that can work

just think we need to remain measured and constructive in our views (as always)


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

Glad to hear positive opinions expressed. Know from looking at individual social media profiles we have fans who work for a number of newspapers (red top & broadsheet), including the S*n, the DM & others happy to demonise people as messengers of the government so-called “culture wars”. FFS even media “legend in his own lunchtime” & proto-fascist Martin Daubney has been known to attend games. Okay a little extreme but should we start considering a purge of them too? After that we could look at freelance advertising work our players do which may or may not include betting companies. I believe it has in the past? The whole point is we can’t control everything but when we have the opportunity to bring Dulwich’s ethos to a wider audience we should take that opportunity..


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 28, 2021)

It is different though Paula_G . He's a director at the club and has a massive media profile, how much do we control what happens?.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> When we have the opportunity to bring Dulwich’s ethos to a wider audience we should take that opportunity..



Should we? I don't think that's a given tbh, just like I don't think it's automatically a benefit to continually bring more people in. 

It's fine to just be a non-league football club isn't it rather than some sort of proselytising organisation.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 28, 2021)

Also, I'm not sure we need a wider audience,  we've been all over the guardian, bbc etc. The dog on the street knows about Dulwich. We have an absurdly large profile for a non league club.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

I like to compare it to the company I work for… The company made its debut on the Sunday Times "Fast Track 100" in 2005, and in 2007 they appeared 16th on their "Profit Track 100" list. However the company failed to innovate, got left behind by new technology & more aggressive competitors the entire staff fitted in one beach hut booth at the pub. Pretty much the same happened to Dulwich from one of leading amateur clubs in the country to rattling around in a half-condemned death trap of a stadium with a few hundred (if lucky) scattered amongst the dereliction. We cannot be complacent that we have “done enough”..


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> It is different though Paula_G . He's a director at the club and has a massive media profile, how much do we control what happens?.


How much control do we have over what any officer of the club or player does outside the confines of their role at Dulwich Hamlet? Wouldn’t surprise me that some might have problems that I work in the Adult Entertainment Industry…


----------



## AveryDave (Jun 28, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> It is different though Paula_G . He's a director at the club and has a massive media profile, how much do we control what happens?.


Is there a code of conduct or similar for officers or those undertaking official roles within the club? Recognise that the vast majority are giving their time freely, but if you're representing the club in an official capacity I'd imagine there are some rules or guidelines on what's okay and what's less okay?

The unfortunate timing of this gambling association with Crouch does feel like his first lesson to our struggling, under threat club in moving to a less bleak future is to leave your morals at the door.


----------



## AveryDave (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> After all hands up anyone that walked out of the Carlisle United FA Cup game because of the 888 Sport adverts and demanded that in future Dulwich Hamlet did not enter the FA Cup to avoid a similar association with betting companies? View attachment 275677


It's a huge jump to go from having no choice but to accept things pushed down on the club from above in the football hierarchy to actively and independently choosing to bring someone into the club.

Totally get that you're supporting this move and believe it's hugely positive, but in the first week of it being announced there's had to be a conversation with the other parties involved to make sure the way they communicate externally aligns with the club's values, and then a heralded association of our new Director with a major betting company.

Really hope these are teething troubles and not a sign of what's consistently to come.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> It's a huge jump to go from having no choice but to accept things pushed down on the club from above in the football hierarchy to actively and independently choosing to bring someone into the club.
> 
> Totally get that you're supporting this move and believe it's hugely positive, but in the first week of it being announced there's had to be a conversation with the other parties involved to make sure the way they communicate externally aligns with the club's values, and then a heralded association of our new Director with a major betting company.
> 
> Really hope these are teething troubles and not a sign of what's consistently to come.


If people would like that perhaps a democratic vote of say, shareholders, season ticket holders or just fans could be suggested to determine this one way or the other? This would widen the debate beyond the confines of say here on Urban75, The Moral Victory on FB or various Twitter accounts. Not going to prejudge others opinions but the dissenting comments on here & elsewhere are but a fraction of the average match day attendance. Might put together a few figures on that front…


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's fine to just be a non-league football club isn't it rather than some sort of proselytising organisation.


A football club has always been a proselytising organisation in a big way or a small way be it events to attract fans through the gates at PWYW games that kickstarted this Hamlet revival or a friend saying to another “We had a great time at Champion Hill on Saturday, come & join us next week”. At Trans Pride Saturday was chatting to complete strangers who enjoyed football but felt alienated from the game because of their sexuality or gender identity. These people had been to Champion Hill & realised that there can be a safe space for them there. If that proselytising then I’m more than happy to be a proselytist…


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Abhor Paddy Power more than most mainly due to their hideously transphobic adverts of the past however this has to be a matter for Peter’s own conscience. Perhaps this documentary gives the club the chance to emphasise our values in relation to betting a wider airing. I’m prepared to see the positive slant to this. After all hands up anyone that walked out of the Carlisle United FA Cup game because of the 888 Sport adverts and demanded that in future Dulwich Hamlet did not enter the FA Cup to avoid a similar association with betting companies? View attachment 275677



Betting is a fucking evil industry. It causes real misery for millions of people around the world. And now Hamlet have elected a board member who actively promotes gambling for money. It's not a good look for a club that once stood out for its strong ethics and community principles.


----------



## AveryDave (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> If people would like that perhaps a democratic vote of say, shareholders, season ticket holders or just fans could be suggested to determine this one way or the other? This would widen the debate beyond the confines of say here on Urban75, The Moral Victory on FB or various Twitter accounts. Not going to prejudge others opinions but the dissenting comments on here & elsewhere are but a fraction of the average match day attendance. Might put together a few figures on that front…


I was thinking more to the stance of the club when the Isthmian took sponsorship from Betting.net in 2017 as a guide to the wider attitude towards gambling specifically - checking back they were quite clear that at that time Dulwich Hamlet didn't support the betting industry and wouldn't personally accept sponsorship from betting companies. But you're absolutely right, wider feeling a few years on could be different, especially with all that's happened in that time - it's dangerous to rely on echo chambers.

As I said previously, we need to trust the club that it's making the right decision at this time, and there are clearly benefits that could come out from it - but we should also be honest with ourselves if there are mis-steps.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

The onus here is on Peter then. After all through the course of this documentary I’m sure that it will be made pretty clear the sort of industries that Dulwich WILL not accept support from (and that includes betting). Maybe we can use this to awaken up football to the evils of betting & bring its links with football to the fore sparking genuine debate on the subject rather than doing the right thing in a sport where few others are…


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> The onus here is on Peter then. After all through the course of this documentary I’m sure that it will be made pretty clear the sort of industries that Dulwich WILL not accept support from (and that includes betting). Maybe we can use this to awaken up football to the evils of betting & bring its links with football to the fore sparking genuine debate on the subject rather than doing the right thing in a sport where few others are…


Do you think he'll rip up his contract with Paddy Power then? Because as it stands, Hamlet have elected someone to their board with a very strong association to promoting gambling. How does that align with the club's principles?







And the kind of company Paddy Power are:









						Paddy Power failed to stop gambler after ‘epic’ losses, court finds
					

Gambling giant Paddy Power encouraged a known gambling addict to bet vast sums of money despite knowing he could not afford to pay for his losses, the High Court has found.




					www.standard.co.uk
				












						Bookmakers 'helped gambling addict squander injury compensation'
					

Lawyers claim Ladbrokes and Paddy Power let Liam McCarron’s losses reach £500,000




					www.theguardian.com
				






> Paddy Power has drawn criticism in the past for offering controversial markets, such as odds on the first species to be driven to extinction by the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico,[24] on an assassination of United States President Barack Obama,[25][26] and on the potential extinction of the polar bear in December 2009.[27]
> 
> Paddy Power's advertising campaigns have also been criticised. One showed sight-impaired footballers kicking a cat, for which the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) received 400 complaints.[28] Another involved the model Imogen Thomas alongside a tagline using a double entendre.[29]
> 
> ...








						Paddy Power - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




And this is what passes for humour from them, running adverts that are offensive towards transgender people:



> The advertising regulator is to investigate a TV ad by Irish bookmaker Paddy Power that asks viewers to spot the "transgendered ladies" among a crowd of racing fans at the Cheltenham festival.
> 
> The Advertising Standards Authority received 360 complaints that the campaign is offensive towards transgender people.
> 
> ...











						Paddy Power faces investigation over 'transgendered ladies' ad
					

ASA launches inquiry after hundreds of complaints about TV campaign asking viewers to 'spot the stallions from the mares'. By Mark Sweney




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

And which do you believe has more power in changing someone’s opinions? A posting on urban75 or working with a club with strong anti-gambling principles? And in the case of the advert you have mentioned working with a transgender woman at Dulwich Hamlet?


----------



## AveryDave (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> The onus here is on Peter then. After all through the course of this documentary I’m sure that it will be made pretty clear the sort of industries that Dulwich WILL not accept support from (and that includes betting). Maybe we can use this to awaken up football to the evils of betting & bring its links with football to the fore sparking genuine debate on the subject rather than doing the right thing in a sport where few others are…


Which brings us back to the nervousness that some have - until we know more and potentially see what comes out of the editing suite, it's impossible to guess how it will turn out.

My personal position (for what it's worth) hasn't changed - I trust the decision the club has made but will wait with a degree of nervousness until we see the output, whether that's the contribution that Crouch makes to the club, or the portrayal of the club and the people involved as part of the programme.


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> And which do you believe has more power in changing someone’s opinions? A posting on urban75 or working with a club with strong anti-gambling principles? And in the case of the advert you have mentioned working with a transgender woman at Dulwich Hamlet?


You've lost me here. Hamlet have invited someone on the board who has a strong commercial association to a betting company known for mocking transgendered people.

How can that possibly be a good thing?


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> Which brings us back to the nervousness that some have - until we know more and potentially see what comes out of the editing suite, it's impossible to guess how it will turn out.
> 
> My personal position (for what it's worth) hasn't changed - I trust the decision the club has made but will wait with a degree of nervousness until we see the output, whether that's the contribution that Crouch makes to the club, or the portrayal of the club and the people involved as part of the programme.


It will be edited to make it a compelling show that attracts advertisers and an audience. That doesn't always guarantee a truthful representation.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> mocking transgendered people.


Could I gently remind yourself and anyone else than transgender is an adjective not a verb or a noun? Thank you..


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Could I gently remind yourself and anyone else than transgender is an adjective not a verb or a noun? Thank you..


Thank you for the reminder. Care to answer my point now please?


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jun 28, 2021)

I'd like to be wrong, but I doubt Crouch will stop advertising betting.


----------



## gnar182 (Jun 28, 2021)

Not arsed what he advertises, he could be shagging lasagne on ITV4 for money for all I care..  as long as he brings something worthwhile to the club for however long he’s here it’s all good.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

Crouch won’t bring anything other than what is needed for TV. That is clear from his public statements or lack of them.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> Thank you for the reminder. Care to answer my point now please?


This advert was nearly a decade ago, PP were censured by the ASA for running the advert & this is not an advertising tactic they have repeated in the ensuing years. We are actually in an era where transgender representation in advertising is moving forward - think McCain chips, the Coop, Paris Lees in the Pantene adverts and Starbucks “What’s Your Name?” campaign. Personally I’d rather have a decent level of transgender visibility in this documentary. Things like focusing on ten year adverts rather reminds of the GC dogpile I regularly get in relation to sport and toilets. No one is stopping me playing sport with my trans inclusive female team. No one is stopping me using the correct toilet. Personally I’m more concerned about visibility & healthcare.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

Cyclodunc said:


> I'd like to be wrong, but I doubt Crouch will stop advertising betting.


Maybe, maybe not…but rather than giving up without trying I'm happy to go down fighting…


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

gnar182 said:


> Not arsed what he advertises, he could be shagging lasagne on ITV4 for money for all I care..  as long as he brings something worthwhile to the club for however long he’s here it’s all good.


Forget about the morals then? 🤔


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Maybe, maybe not…but rather than giving up without trying I'm happy to go down fighting…


If the club have "strong anti-gambling principles," as you claimed, it does rather beg the question why they've welcomed a high profile celebrity who is _currently the_ _poster boy for a huge gambling company_ on to their board.


----------



## gnar182 (Jun 28, 2021)

1927 said:


> Forget about the morals then? 🤔


Depends what your moral threshold is really doesn’t it, pretty subjective we’re not all going to agree on that. 

e.g. I’m fine with him advertising paddy power but if he’s going to start clubbing seals in the bar I’m going to object. 🤷🏻‍♂️



B.I.G said:


> Crouch won’t bring anything other than what is needed for TV. That is clear from his public statements or lack of them.



Yea appreciate that point. I’m choosing to try and look positively at the situation after taking into account the subsequent statements by the club and Ben Clasper since the news broke. More than fair to be sceptical though.


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

gnar182 said:


> Not arsed what he advertises, he could be shagging lasagne on ITV4 for money for all I care..  as long as he brings something worthwhile to the club for however long he’s here it’s all good.


Yes, that's exactly the kind of attitude that led to the club getting so much publicity in the past and attracting so many new fans.   

Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if the new fans attracted to Dulwich after the TV show think much the same as you.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> If the club have "strong anti-gambling principles," as you claimed, it does rather beg the question why they've welcomed a high profile celebrity who is _currently the_ _poster boy for a huge gambling company_ on to their board.


That is not for me to answer but I’ve said before it is not up to us to dictate to any director what they do in their everyday work.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

gnar182 said:


> Depends what your moral threshold is really doesn’t it, pretty subjective we’re not all going to agree on that.
> 
> e.g. I’m fine with him advertising paddy power but if he’s going to start clubbing seals in the bar I’m going to object. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> 
> ...



I personally am getting a bit tired of being told how we face “financial ruin”.

If we do lets cut the budget back to Ryman Prem levels and have a sustainable club rather than chase yet more media attention.


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> That is not for me to answer but I’ve said before it is not up to us to dictate to any director what they do in their everyday work.



There is always the option of not inviting people on to the board who stand for the very thing the club is supposedly  "strongly" opposing.

That might show some consistency in what the club is supposed to stand for.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> I personally am getting a bit tired of being told how we face “financial ruin”.
> 
> If we do lets cut the budget back to Ryman Prem levels and have a sustainable club rather than chase yet more media attention.


Really? Based on past experience I’d expect fans to start grumbling that we’re not competing our rivals. I can another Croydon FC scenario where the team was shipping half a dozen or more goals a week. Decent Isthmian League level players might be attracted but would they commit the time & effort, first to the travel & training but also remaining motivated when they are being routed every week?


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

gnar182 said:


> Depends what your moral threshold is really doesn’t it, pretty subjective we’re not all going to agree on that.
> 
> e.g. I’m fine with him advertising paddy power but if he’s going to start clubbing seals in the bar I’m going to object. 🤷🏻‍♂️
> 
> ...


To be honest I’d be more ok with seal clubbing than the betting stuff. If I was in any position of power betting advertising would be banned and apps/websites would be banned.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Really? Based on past experience I’d expect fans to start grumbling that we’re not competing our rivals. I can another Croydon FC scenario where the team was shipping half a dozen or more goals a week. Decent Isthmian League level players might be attracted but would they commit the time & effort, first to the travel & training but also remaining motivated when they are being routed every week?



Fans aren’t watching the game. Its just a place to bring your children.

Maybe Crouchy can do something to clear out the poshos behind the goal shouting jolly good dulwich.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Fans aren’t watching the game. Its just a place to bring your children.
> 
> Maybe Crouchy can do something to clear out the poshos behind the goal shouting jolly good dulwich.


Inverse snobbery as someone might once have said… Did you regard every obscure band you saw as a kid as selling out the moment they moved from playing the New Cross Inn to the Marquee?


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Inverse snobbery as someone might once have said… Did you regard every obscure band you saw as a kid as selling out the moment they moved from playing the New Cross Inn to the Marquee?



Dulwich made its choice and can live with the consequences. If the powers that be don’t care about the level of support for the team they can make do with upping the wages.

I’m sure the documentary will show the level of support for the team from the terraces.


----------



## gnar182 (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> There is always the option of not inviting people on to the board who stand for the very thing the club is supposedly  "strongly" opposing.
> 
> That might show some consistency in what the club is supposed to stand for.



Yes. I’m sure Herr Crouch’s first decree as director will be to ban community initiatives, promoting diversity, charity collections and anything else positive that the club has aligned itself with over the years 👍🏻


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> There is always the option of not inviting people on to the board who stand for the very thing the club is supposedly  "strongly" opposing.
> 
> That might show some consistency in what the club is supposed to stand for.


The club sells alcohol inside the ground and allows smoking, both of which are highly addictive and responsible for worse evils & the sort of serious illnesses betting can only dream of causing… Perhaps we should consider a temperance stadium in further & zero tolerance on smoking inside the ground?


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

gnar182 said:


> Yes. I’m sure Herr Crouch’s first decree as director will be to ban community initiatives, promoting diversity, charity collections and anything else positive that the club has aligned itself with over the years 👍🏻


* Stands back to admire the girth of the ludicrous strawman that's just been constructed.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Dulwich made its choice and can live with the consequences. If the powers that be don’t care about the level of support for the team they can make do with upping the wages.
> 
> I’m sure the documentary will show the level of support for the team from the terraces.


You seem to speak for a lot of people but at the moment this thread has been dominated by less than a couple of dozen at most if that…


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> The club sells alcohol inside the ground and allows smoking, both of which are highly addictive and responsible for worse evils & the sort of serious illnesses betting can only dream of causing… Perhaps we should consider a temperance stadium in further & zero tolerance on smoking inside the ground?


You really are unable to comprehend why some fans may be unimpressed with a gambling-promoting celebrity joining the board, aren't you?


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> You seem to speak for a lot of people but at the moment this thread has been dominated by less than a couple of dozen at most if that…



I don’t speak to anyone but the facts speak for themselves. I heard even Gavin thinks the support is shit now.

In one of your other posts you said the large majority should have a say outside of facebook or forums.

I’m all for that they probably want paid support actors brought in for their entertainment.


----------



## StephenMac (Jun 28, 2021)

Wonder if anybody has had their view in any way changed about any of this by this thread? 

(Entirely rhetorical)


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> The club sells alcohol inside the ground and allows smoking, both of which are highly addictive and responsible for worse evils & the sort of serious illnesses betting can only dream of causing… Perhaps we should consider a temperance stadium in further & zero tolerance on smoking inside the ground?


I think you are seriously underestimating the damage that betting causes.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

1927 said:


> I think you are seriously underestimating the damage that betting causes.



Also smoking should be banned inside the ground.


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

StephenMac said:


> Wonder if anybody has had their view in any way changed about any of this by this thread?
> 
> (Entirely rhetorical)


I dunno. What do you think about Crouch's appointment and his involvement with the gambling industry?


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> You really are unable to comprehend why some fans may be unimpressed with a gambling-promoting celebrity joining the board, aren't you?


So you’re happy that two worse addictions are tolerated by the club?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> So you’re happy that two worse addictions are tolerated by the club?


how do you work out your addiction rankings?


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

1927 said:


> I think you are seriously underestimating the damage that betting causes.


I also know the damage alcohol and cigarettes cause.. Very personally in both cases…


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> So you’re happy that two worse addictions are tolerated by the club?


No one committed suicide or committed DV because they smoked!


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> So you’re happy that two worse addictions are tolerated by the club?


World of difference between 'tolerating' something on the terraces and inviting the face of a gambling company into your boardroom.

But I don't expect you'll see that.


----------



## tonysingh (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> The club sells alcohol inside the ground and allows smoking, both of which are highly addictive and responsible for worse evils & the sort of serious illnesses betting can only dream of causing… Perhaps we should consider a temperance stadium in further & zero tolerance on smoking inside the ground?





Paula_G said:


> So you’re happy that two worse addictions are tolerated by the club?




You really cannot comprehend the vileness of the gambling industry can you? It's an industry responsible for depredations at least on the level of drinking and smoking. Utterly baffling. 





StephenMac said:


> Wonder if anybody has had their view in any way changed about any of this by this thread?
> 
> (Entirely rhetorical)



I've had my view of the club and some supporters solidified by this thread and the general brouhaha around Saint Peter of the Gamblers coming coming on to the board and us all prostrating ourselves in supplication at his largesse. (Sorry, i've supped at the bar of sarcasm today)


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

Problem gamblers at 15 times higher risk of suicide, study finds
					

Swedish research, if applied to UK, suggests 550 suicides a year are linked to gambling




					www.google.co.uk


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

https://www.lincoln.ac.uk/news/2016/09/1262.asp


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> how do you work out your addiction rankings?


I’d probably start with deaths about 80000 a year from smoking related diseases alone. According to the NHS there are nearly 8 problem drinkers in the U.K. There are around 7 million smokers in the U.K. Even at the highest estimate these numbers dwarf the number of problem gamblers at around 400,000. So if we are to crack down on one why not the others?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> I’d probably start with deaths about 80000 a year from smoking related diseases alone. According to the NHS there are nearly 8 problem drinkers in the U.K. There are around 7 million smokers in the U.K. Even at the highest estimate these numbers dwarf the number of problem gamblers at around 400,000. So if we are to crack down on one why not the others?


if there are nearly 8 problem drinkers in the uk then i'd start with that as it shouldn't take too long to resolve. the other problems seem like they'd need more work so let's start with the quick win


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> I’d probably start with deaths about 80000 a year from smoking related diseases alone. According to the NHS there are nearly 8 problem drinkers in the U.K. There are around 7 million smokers in the U.K. Even at the highest estimate these numbers dwarf the number of problem gamblers at around 400,000. So if we are to crack down on one why not the others?


If a club claims to be strongly opposed to gambling, you don't install the most high profile pro-gambling celebrity in the UK to be on the fucking board. Why can't you see that?


----------



## tonysingh (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> I’d probably start with deaths about 80000 a year from smoking related diseases alone. According to the NHS there are nearly 8 problem drinkers in the U.K. There are around 7 million smokers in the U.K. Even at the highest estimate these numbers dwarf the number of problem gamblers at around 400,000. So if we are to crack down on one why not the others?



7 problem drinkers? We had more than that behind the goal during the 90s.

But yes, gambling is luvverly jubberly isn't it? Pure saintly not like those ghastly smokers or drinkers. Nope, gambling is in no way a pernicious evil foisted upon those least able to afford it. Silly us for fretting.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

1927 said:


> No one committed suicide or committed DV because they smoked!


Strange argument given the level of domestic violence & suicide linked to alcohol abuse which you seem to have conveniently ignored.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> 7 problem drinkers? We had more than that behind the goal during the 90s.


7 million… If we’d had that many fans back then we wouldn’t be talking here..


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2021)

1927 said:


> No one committed suicide or committed DV because they smoked!


to be fair smoking is really committing suicide slowly


----------



## StephenMac (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> I dunno. What do you think about Crouch's appointment and his involvement with the gambling industry?


Why, thank you for asking, young man. I have my views but they won't bring anything new to the table.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2021)

StephenMac said:


> Why, thank you for asking, young man. I have my views but they won't bring anything new to the table.


yeh but you might still post them up: it is the urban way


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> to be fair smoking is really committing suicide slowly


But that’s your own choice! And it’s not guaranteed!


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> to be fair smoking is really committing suicide slowly


As I very well know… The level of addiction not only eats away at one’s body through the likes of cancer but also financially. I have genuinely saved thousands since I quit after coming within weeks of my body shutting down thanks to a seriously aggressive cancer…


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2021)

1927 said:


> But that’s your own choice!


to an extent. loads of people start and then find it very difficult to stop even if they really want to.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

1927 said:


> But that’s your own choice!


One could use that argument for any addiction


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> I’d probably start with deaths about 80000 a year from smoking related diseases alone. According to the NHS there are nearly 8 problem drinkers in the U.K. There are around 7 million smokers in the U.K. Even at the highest estimate these numbers dwarf the number of problem gamblers at around 400,000. So if we are to crack down on one why not the others?



It was a member of the football committee that convinced the rest.

Probably because they thought it would sell well like making Crouchy a fake director.


----------



## StephenMac (Jun 28, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> I've had my view of the club and some supporters solidified by this thread and the general brouhaha around Saint Peter of the Gamblers coming coming on to the board and us all prostrating ourselves in supplication at his largesse. (Sorry, i've supped at the bar of sarcasm today)


You get half a point for having views solidified 🙂


----------



## gnar182 (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> If a club claims to be strongly opposed to gambling, you don't install the most high profile pro-gambling celebrity in the UK to be on the fucking board. Why can't you see that?


We haven’t.


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> One could use that argument for any addiction


Just for the record: I'd be unhappy if Dulwich invited pro-booze or pro-cigarette celebrities onto the board. But they haven't, so all your comparisons are fruitless. 

You're clearly ok with a super high profile promoter of gambling being on the board. You think it's not a problem. I do.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

gnar182 said:


> We haven’t.



2nd after Ray Winstone?


----------



## tonysingh (Jun 28, 2021)

To be fair, if we're going to allow ourselves to benefit from the gambling industry then we may as well take the tobacco and alcohol industries respective shekels too. After all, we're a struggling club with a parlous future etc. 




editor said:


> Just for the record: I'd be unhappy if Dulwich invited pro-booze or pro-cigarette celebrities onto the board. But they haven't, so all your comparisons are fruitless.
> 
> You're clearly ok with a super high profile promoter of gambling being on the board. You think it's not a problem. I do.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> Just for the record: I'd be unhappy if Dulwich invited pro-booze or pro-cigarette celebrities onto the board. But they haven't, so all your comparisons are fruitless.
> 
> You're clearly ok with a super high profile promoter of gambling being on the board. You think it's not a problem. I do.



He isn’t on the board in reality. Just in name.
They could add anyone else on to balance it out. A fictional character would offer as much.


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jun 28, 2021)

He’s not fictional?


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

Cyclodunc said:


> He’s not fictional?



He is pretend. 😀


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jun 28, 2021)

how about we appoint the ghost of yul brynner?


----------



## StephenMac (Jun 28, 2021)

Cyclodunc said:


> how about we appoint the ghost of yul brynner?


Finally, a voice of reason. Been saying it for years.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 28, 2021)

Cyclodunc said:


> how about we appoint the ghost of yul brynner?



Poor man’s Rex Harrison.


----------



## gnar182 (Jun 28, 2021)

Odds on this thread being featured in the documentary?


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

gnar182 said:


> Odds on this thread being featured in the documentary?


I hope so.


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jun 28, 2021)

StephenMac said:


> Finally, a voice of reason. Been saying it for years.


had to be said


----------



## scousedom (Jun 28, 2021)

Say what you like about the industry he’s picked, but you’ve got to admire the speed of the lad’s career progression. Must be that that’s attracted the Board. Plus he probably won’t eat much of the match day buffet. 

Sunday 11pm: doing betting adverts
Monday 12pm: actively promotes gambling for money
Monday 1pm: very strong association to promoting gambling
Monday 2pm: strong commercial association to a betting company
Monday 6pm: theposter boy for a huge gambling company
Monday 7pm: the face of a gambling company
Monday 710pm: the most high profile pro-gambling celebrity in the UK


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

scousedom said:


> Say what you like about the industry he’s picked, but you’ve got to admire the speed of the lad’s career progression. Must be that that’s attracted the Board. Plus he probably won’t eat much of the match day buffet.
> 
> Sunday 11pm: doing betting adverts
> Monday 12pm: actively promotes gambling for money
> ...


And yet all true. What's your thoughts on his election to a club that supposedly strongly opposes gambling?


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> One could use that argument for any addiction


You seem very good as commenting without answering any points. Give me an d ample if someone committing suicide or committing DV because they smoked!


----------



## scousedom (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> And yet all true. What's your thoughts on his election to a club that supposedly strongly opposes gambling?


I’d rather he didn’t do it. But it’s not the main thing he does is it? I mean, imagine it’s Family Fortunes and we asked 100 people what they most associate with Peter Crouch. Football, pundit, podcast, silly dancing, allegedly not averse to a bit of [redacted], occasionally funny bloke who doesn’t take himself too seriously. Is “gambling sponsor” in anyone’s top three? Probably not. So the Club haven’t in my view hired “the face of gambling” because no one sees him as that (in my view). He’s not Ray Winston (as someone said) who people definitely would say “betting” about on Family Fortunes. 

Like I said. I’d rather he didn’t do it. But now he’s in the door maybe a few people will say to him how and why we’ve turned down gambling sponsorship in the past - and also how we haven’t and why - and that may cause him to change his mind. 

And that change is certainly more likely to be achieved, in my view, that way than by us all whipping ourselves up into a frenzy to confront him at dawn screaming “You are Gamblor and we are ripping back our club from your neon claws”.

But then that doesn’t get hits does it so carry on.


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

scousedom said:


> But then that doesn’t get hits does it so carry on.


Can you explain exactly what you mean by this comment please?


----------



## scousedom (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> Can you explain exactly what you mean by this comment please?


Only if you reply to what went before it. Fair’s fair.


----------



## Santino (Jun 28, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Poor man’s Rex Harrison.


But now and then he'll say something wonderful.


----------



## Paula_G (Jun 28, 2021)

1927 said:


> You seem very good as commenting without answering any points. Give me an d ample if someone committing suicide or committing DV because they smoked!


Might be some useful information in here… “Smoking cessation treatment and risk of depression, suicide, and self harm in the Clinical Practice Research Datalink: prospective cohort study”








						Smoking cessation treatment and risk of depression, suicide, and self harm in the Clinical Practice Research Datalink: prospective cohort study
					

Objective To compare the risk of suicide, self harm, and depression in patients prescribed varenicline or bupropion with those prescribed nicotine replacement therapy.  Design Prospective cohort study within the Clinical Practice Research Datalink.  Setting 349 general practices in England...




					www.bmj.com


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

scousedom said:


> Only if you reply to what went before it. Fair’s fair.


What am I supposed to reply to? You expressed your opinion and speculated  about how well known Crouch is a pro gambling celebrity. I haven't seen any Winstone betting ads recently whereas Crouch's new ad campaign has attracted a lot of press. 

Now explain what you meant by your comment about hits. I'm really hoping it's not what I think it means.


----------



## scousedom (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> What am I supposed to reply to? You expressed your opinion and speculated  about how well known Crouch is a pro gambling celebrity. I haven't seen any Winstone betting ads recently whereas Crouch's new ad campaign has attracted a lot of press.
> 
> Now explain what you meant by your comment about hits. I'm really hoping it's not what I think it means.


You’ve only half addressed my first point - what people see Crouch as being. You’ve ignored my second and my third. So… No.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula_G said:


> Might be some useful information in here… “Smoking cessation treatment and risk of depression, suicide, and self harm in the Clinical Practice Research Datalink: prospective cohort study”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so theres a risk of suicide in people giving up smoking! seems like you've rather missed the point!


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

scousedom said:


> You’ve only half addressed my first point - what people see Crouch as being. You’ve ignored my second and my third. So… No.


I don't think there is the remotest chance of him turning down his betting advertising work as a result of his involvement with Dulwich.

And I don't agree with your third comment 

Now explain your comment for the third time of asking.


----------



## scousedom (Jun 28, 2021)

editor said:


> I don't think there is the remotest chance of him turning down his betting advertising work as a result of his involvement with Dulwich.
> 
> And I don't agree with your third comment
> 
> Now explain your comment for the third time of asking.


So to summarise:

You think Crouch is most famous for his betting advertising work.
You think so little of our Club staff and supporters that we have “not the remotest chance” of influencing his views while he’s among us.
You think challenging him at dawn with mangled Simpsons references would be more likely to achieve change.

For a moderator you aren’t very moderate. And that’s my point.


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

scousedom said:


> So to summarise:
> 
> You think Crouch is most famous for his betting advertising work.
> You think so little of our Club staff and supporters that we have “not the remotest chance” of influencing his views while he’s among us.
> ...


1. I have never made such a claim
2. I think I know a fair bit about the club after being an enthusiastic supporter for 12 years, and your comment is pure speculation
3. I've no idea what the Simpsons reference is
And
4. I am not participating in this thread as a moderator. I am participating as a fan, which I thought was blatantly obvious.

And none of the above answers my original question about 'hits.' Could you finally explain what you meant now please?


----------



## mick mccartney (Jun 28, 2021)

Paula , smoking and drinking brands are banned from any commercial involvement in sport . not so gambling .


----------



## tonysingh (Jun 28, 2021)

mick mccartney said:


> Paula , smoking and drinking brands are banned from any commercial involvement in sport . not so gambling .




Though they really should be


----------



## pompeydunc (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> Betting is a fucking evil industry. It causes real misery for millions of people around the world. And now Hamlet have elected a board member who actively promotes gambling for money. It's not a good look for a club that once stood out for its strong ethics and community principles.





editor said:


> And yet all true. What's your thoughts on his election to a club that supposedly strongly opposes gambling?



He's not been "elected" to the Board. He's been appointed by existing Board members. Hence the democratic deficit that exists here, any why it's controversial for supporters...no matter what your view on his appointment is and the reasons for it.


----------



## blueheaven (Jun 29, 2021)

In general I feel Crouch's involvement is a positive move and that people should at the very least be willing to give him a fair chance, but I have to admit I really cringed yesterday when I was watching one of the Euros matches and he popped up in the middle of it advertising Paddy Power. It's hard not to see that as a big contradiction of the club's stance on gambling and it feels inappropriate to me that Crouch has a foot in both camps. I think it would be good to hear the club's view on this - it must be something that was discussed when it was decided to bring him on board, after all.


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 29, 2021)

blueheaven said:


> In general I feel Crouch's involvement is a positive move and that people should at the very least be willing to give him a fair chance, but I have to admit I really cringed yesterday when I was watching one of the Euros matches and he popped up in the middle of it advertising Paddy Power. It's hard not to see that as a big contradiction of the club's stance on gambling and it feels inappropriate to me that Crouch has a foot in both camps. I think it would be good to hear the club's view on this - it must be something that was discussed when it was decided to bring him on board, after all.


You mean beyond asking how much money we were getting paid by the tv company?


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

It's going to give a very confusing message about the club's stance on gambling if Crouch's gambling adverts end up being shown in between episodes of the Hamlet TV show he's making...


----------



## MrFouldsy (Jun 29, 2021)

What are his overheads? They will be massive.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> It's going to give a very confusing message about the club's stance on gambling if Crouch's gambling adverts end up being shown in between episodes of the Hamlet TV show he's making...



I'd like to think Discovery wouldn't be the place for a ad with gambling but then again TV surprises me sometimes.


----------



## supersafari (Jun 29, 2021)

Have yet to see any adverts for bookmakers during the Tour de France coverage. The ad breaks are very sedentary: think Rafa Nadal in an open-neck shirt, holding a glass of wine, gently promoting tourism in Mallorca.

The ad-breaks during football assault the senses. Like walking through a pachinko parlour where floating heads with British regional accents bellow at you to gamble simply for the sake of it.


----------



## tonysingh (Jun 29, 2021)

supersafari said:


> Have yet to see any adverts for bookmakers during the Tour de France coverage. The ad breaks are very sedentary: think Rafa Nadal in an open-neck shirt, holding a glass of wine, gently promoting tourism in Mallorca.
> 
> The ad-breaks during football assault the senses. Like walking through a pachinko parlour where floating heads with British regional accents bellow at you to gamble simply for the sake of it.




There have been a couple of excellent documentaries recently about the evils of the gambling industry and it's ties to football, how it exploits children through advertising etc and how various clubs willingly go along with it. Proper depressing.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

Tony_LeaS said:


> I'd like to think Discovery wouldn't be the place for a ad with gambling but then again TV surprises me sometimes.


Be prepared to be surprised as they also own Eurosport: 



> Discovery Networks Norway, an arm of the international broadcast group that owns Eurosport, has taken legal action over the move by the Norwegian state to ban the advertising of foreign betting companies by broadcasters.
> 
> Ahead of the scheduled law change, which is due to come into effect on January 1, 2021, Discovery has issued a subpoena as it looks to avoid being hit by a sharp decline in advertising from the betting sector.
> 
> ...


----------



## mick mccartney (Jun 29, 2021)

can we invite Mark Cavendish to join the board ?


----------



## PartisanDulwich (Jun 29, 2021)

_Still look forward optimistically to the day when Rio Ferdinand gets involved - _


----------



## tonysingh (Jun 29, 2021)

Perhaps we should get BrewDog to provide a few halftime tinnies


----------



## 1927 (Jun 29, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Perhaps we should get BrewDog to provide a few halftime tinnies


If they promise you they are solid 24carat gold worth £15k, don’t believe them!

Brewdog: Watchdog urged to probe solid gold can prize claim


----------



## scousedom (Jun 29, 2021)

PartisanDulwich said:


> _Still look forward optimistically to the day when Rio Ferdinand gets involved - _


You mean the face of William Hill?


----------



## B.I.G (Jun 29, 2021)

scousedom said:


> You mean the face of William Hill?



I thought that was me.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 30, 2021)

mick mccartney said:


> Paula , smoking and drinking brands are banned from any commercial involvement in sport . not so gambling .


Heineken are one of the official sponsors of this years Euros.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 30, 2021)

mick mccartney said:


> Paula , smoking and drinking brands are banned from any commercial involvement in sport . not so gambling .


No they’re not.
Every football team has an official beer, spirit etc.


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jun 30, 2021)




----------



## MrFouldsy (Jun 30, 2021)

Cyclodunc said:


>



What an actor! Rooney really captures that feeling of complete exestential collapse.


----------



## Pink Panther (Jun 30, 2021)

MrFouldsy said:


> What an actor! Rooney really captures that feeling of complete exestential collapse.


It all looks quite profound with the Spanish subtitles, although admittedly I was watching it on mute.


----------



## AveryDave (Jul 2, 2021)

Just had a look at Peter Crouch's Twitter and Instagram accounts, and I can't see a single thing about Dulwich Hamlet on them.

Given he's got over 1 million followers across both those platforms wouldn't that be something he could do to help, especially in the week when season tickets have gone on sale?


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> Just had a look at Peter Crouch's Twitter and Instagram accounts, and I can't see a single thing about Dulwich Hamlet on them.
> 
> Given he's got over 1 million followers across both those platforms wouldn't that be something he could do to help, especially in the week when season tickets have gone on sale?


Him getting involved with Hamlet was a professional engagement. He hasn't suddenly become a mega-fan of the club and I expect he'll pretty much do the minimum 'out of hours' promotion for the club.

After all, its not a labour or love for him. It's a well-paid, well publicised job and an opportunity to raise his profile and add to his growing TV portfolio and status as a football celebrity. And I don't expect he'll stick around after the series has ended.

Nothing wrong with any of that, of course. It's how these things work.


----------



## AveryDave (Jul 2, 2021)

editor said:


> Him getting involved with Hamlet was a professional engagement. He hasn't suddenly become a mega-fan of the club and I expect he'll pretty much do the minimum 'out of hours' promotion for the club.
> 
> After all, its not a labour or love for him. It's a well-paid, well publicised job and an opportunity to raise his profile and add to his growing TV portfolio and status as a football celebrity. And I don't expect he'll stick around after the series has ended.
> 
> Nothing wrong with any of that, of course. It's how these things work.


I'm not saying you're not right - and personally I think you probably are - but it doesn't quite tally with the "If I can help in any way", "I’m taking it seriously", "I know this is people’s lives, people’s livelihoods" rheotoric he's actively been putting out there.

He's tagged in all of the club's tweets about season tickets but hasn't engaged with a single one, when he could reach nearly 1 million people with a single retweet. Don't think that's asking a lot?


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> I'm not saying you're not right - and personally I think you probably are - but it doesn't quite tally with the "If I can help in any way", "I’m taking it seriously", "I know this is people’s lives, people’s livelihoods" rheotoric he's been actively putting out there.


Thaaaaaaaat's showbiz!


----------



## 1927 (Jul 2, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> I'm not saying you're not right - and personally I think you probably are - but it doesn't quite tally with the "If I can help in any way", "I’m taking it seriously", "I know this is people’s lives, people’s livelihoods" rheotoric he's actively been putting out there.
> 
> He's tagged in all of the club's tweets about season tickets but hasn't engaged with a single one, when he could reach nearly 1 million people with a single retweet. Don't think that's asking a lot?


He’s only paid when cameras are rolling!
ETA:it maybe that he’s planning a big social media launch in conjunction with the production company, so it might not be a bad thing.


----------



## Nivag (Jul 2, 2021)

Blimey, people moan about the possible publicity and also moan about the lack of it 😂


----------



## scousedom (Jul 2, 2021)

Nivag said:


> Blimey, people moan about the possible publicity and also moan about the lack of it 😂


It’s almost like people really just like moaning.


----------



## AveryDave (Jul 2, 2021)

It’s almost like people will swallow any old shit that’s shovelled their way.


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2021)

I realise that I'm one of the people who's opinion is now easily swept aside and/or ridiculed here, but if anyone can find a way to square Hamlet's stated 'anti gambling' stance with the election of a high profile pro-gambling celebrity, I'd love to hear their workings. 

Oh, and scousedom - I'm still waiting for you to explain your comment about my opinion and 'hits'.


----------



## mick mccartney (Jul 4, 2021)

editor said:


> I realise that I'm one of the people who's opinion is now easily swept aside and/or ridiculed here, but if anyone can find a way to square Hamlet's stated 'anti gambling' stance with the election of a high profile pro-gambling celebrity, I'd love to hear their workings.
> 
> Oh, and scousedom - I'm still waiting for you to explain your comment about my opinion and 'hits'.


mate , i'm with you all the way .  interesting fixture on July 17th , All Bets Are Off ( podcast)  v The Peoples F.C.  even more interesting , the venue . would you believe  New Lodge , Billericay ? funny how the world turns , eh ?


----------



## scousedom (Jul 4, 2021)

editor said:


> I realise that I'm one of the people who's opinion is now easily swept aside and/or ridiculed here, but if anyone can find a way to square Hamlet's stated 'anti gambling' stance with the election of a high profile pro-gambling celebrity, I'd love to hear their workings.
> 
> Oh, and scousedom - I'm still waiting for you to explain your comment about my opinion and 'hits'.


Why are you coming back to this now? Can’t be because the thread has been dead quiet for 48 hours.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2021)

scousedom said:


> Why are you coming back to this now? Can’t be because the thread has been dead quiet for 48 hours.


Maybe it's because I've asked you _five times now_ and have waited patiently for an answer, even after you insisted I answer every single 'point' in your opinionated post.

So it would be nice if you stuck to your word now and explained what you meant by what looked like a very offensive post.


----------



## TonyWalt (Jul 5, 2021)

Oh good, I thought, a new post on the Peter Crouch thread, I wonder if there is more information…….only to find, it was more on this petty argument.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2021)

TonyWalt said:


> Oh good, I thought, a new post on the Peter Crouch thread, I wonder if there is more information…….only to find, it was more on this petty argument.


When someone apparently accuses you of manufacturing an opinion on something you feel strongly about purely for the sake of 'clicks,' I think it's reasonable to ask for clarification because I find it a really offensive suggestion. 

And it's only carrying on because the accuser has refused to back up his claim after being asked 6 times.


----------



## NPDHFC (Jul 5, 2021)

It is pretty tiresome though, eh?


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2021)

NPDHFC said:


> It is pretty tiresome though, eh?


Absolutely agree. And that's why I've tried to get an answer so I can move on. But if someone appeared to be wildly misrepresenting your honesty and conviction - and you were publicly identifiable on this forum - I'm sure you'd like to get the issue clarified ASAP, no?

And in more related news, I emailed Ben Clasper a few days with my concerns about Crouch and gambling. To his credit, he promptly answered with an email that was so detailed and lengthy that I'm still taking it all in!


----------



## NPDHFC (Jul 5, 2021)

I'd probably just let it go tbh, but each to their own I suppose.


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 5, 2021)

editor said:


> Absolutely agree. And that's why I've tried to get an answer so I can move on. But if someone appeared to be wildly misrepresenting your honesty and conviction - and you were publicly identifiable on this forum - I'm sure you'd like to get the issue clarified ASAP, no?
> 
> And in more related news, I emailed Ben Clasper a few days with my concerns about Crouch and gambling. To his credit, he promptly answered with an email that was so detailed and lengthy that I'm still taking it all in!



Is it bullshit though?


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Is it bullshit though?


No. It was a long and considered response, and I'm grateful that he took the time to answer. That's not to say I agree with everything he wrote, mind. I still think it's a terrible idea overall.


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 5, 2021)

editor said:


> No. It was a long and considered response, and I'm grateful that he took the time to answer. That's not to say I agree with everything he wrote, mind. I still think it's a terrible idea overall.



I’m surprised. Everything he says in public is condescending bollocks. Especially the bit about Crouch fitting in on the football side since Gav won’t be discussing anything with him at all.


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Jul 5, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> I’m surprised. Everything he says in public is condescending bollocks. Especially the bit about Crouch fitting in on the football side since Gav won’t be discussing anything with him at all.


Yes, unless the club are foisting a very inexperienced coach on Gavin and Junior. That said Gavin never talks to anyone bar the South London Press on a very occasional basis so we won't really know.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 5, 2021)

There's been a glut of these fly on the wall documentaries over the last several years. I really am struggling to think of a single one where the club and it's fans have come out of it positively.


----------



## Pink Panther (Jul 6, 2021)

TonyWalt said:


> Oh good, I thought, a new post on the Peter Crouch thread, I wonder if there is more information…….only to find, it was more on this petty argument.


The manager's view:









						No coaching role for new Dulwich Hamlet director Peter Crouch
					

Peter Crouch will not be handed a coaching role by Dulwich Hamlet. It was announced last week that the former England international had been appointed as a director at the National League South sid…




					londonnewsonline.co.uk


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2021)

Pink Panther said:


> The manager's view:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a mess.


----------



## Hamlet Pete (Jul 6, 2021)

Love how Gav slams the league at the end though


----------



## scousedom (Jul 6, 2021)

editor said:


> Maybe it's because I've asked you _five times now_ and have waited patiently for an answer, even after you insisted I answer every single 'point' in your opinionated post.
> 
> So it would be nice if you stuck to your word now and explained what you meant by what looked like a very offensive post.


Sigh....
I said what I meant. Here it is again.


scousedom said:


> For a moderator you aren’t very moderate. And that’s my point.


When I said it, did I think you were deliberately being extreme? Yes.
On calmer reflection over the following days did I? Less so.
Do I now? Somewhere in the middle.

As has been pointed out elsewhere on this and other threads, who's had their mind changed in all this fume?


----------



## scousedom (Jul 6, 2021)

(Oops, hit reply too early).
All that's happened - in classic urban style - is that the argument has become more and more heated, positions taken have become more and more extreme, hyperbole has been ramped up and up...

And all the while, views and positions are being stated on the basis of knowing only a small fragment of the picture. [Now that's not the fault of the people here, and greater transparency would be great - although there is a balance to be struck, we can't know everything] We have no idea what the financials of the club are looking like this season, and how disastrous the "play a season with no crowds" scenario looks. 

The people (volunteers klaxon) at the Club know this, they see the full picture, they take a decision on that better-informed basis. They are trying - after a ridiculously hard 18 months - to keep the club going through another ridiculously hard 12 months. I dread to think how negatively it would affect them reading the volume and violence of negative opinion on here - I hope they don't.

By all means, express views, have debate etc. But at some point wouldn't it be nice if limitations of understanding were acknowledged, if consensus was sought, if a view was commonly held it was acted on and left there (in which regard kudos on contacting Ben). But more generally, wouldn't it be better if the pattern of discussions wasn't just towards more and more extreme and polarised positions on each side, creating and exacerbating division? That the phrase "classic urban" didn't refer to people with almost everything in common if they stopped to think just screaming at each other into the void? Because there's enough of that out there already.


----------



## StephenMac (Jul 6, 2021)

scousedom said:


> (Oops, hit reply too early).
> All that's happened - in classic urban style - is that the argument has become more and more heated, positions taken have become more and more extreme, hyperbole has been ramped up and up...
> 
> And all the while, views and positions are being stated on the basis of knowing only a small fragment of the picture. [Now that's not the fault of the people here, and greater transparency would be great - although there is a balance to be struck, we can't know everything] We have no idea what the financials of the club are looking like this season, and how disastrous the "play a season with no crowds" scenario looks.
> ...


Genuine question before reversion to 'classic urban':
Why isn't there some transparency about the financial situation rather than just dark insinuations when people question Crouch's involvement with the club? If there's a problem surely supporters should be told about it.

Whether you like it or not a lot of people are deeply sceptical about his involvement and I've seen very little from the club to put their minds at rest.


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 6, 2021)

scousedom said:


> (Oops, hit reply too early).
> All that's happened - in classic urban style - is that the argument has become more and more heated, positions taken have become more and more extreme, hyperbole has been ramped up and up...
> 
> And all the while, views and positions are being stated on the basis of knowing only a small fragment of the picture. [Now that's not the fault of the people here, and greater transparency would be great - although there is a balance to be struck, we can't know everything] We have no idea what the financials of the club are looking like this season, and how disastrous the "play a season with no crowds" scenario looks.
> ...



Ah. The old it might affect people negatively.

Perhaps if people at the club could change their minds rather than arrogantly thinking they know best. We wouldnt always be close to financial disaster / lose the people that got us to where we are to be replaced by the need for more money and more exposure.

I certainly can’t think of anyone better placed to be be a director of the club than some celebrity that we pretend has a connection to the club.

Its not urban that needs alternative voices its those in charge of the club. Perhaps someone that could have said how about rather than this documentary we set a budget more suitable to the needs of the club rather than what Gavin wants.


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 6, 2021)

After all. Did we not get the tins out and go fund mes just to honour the contracts of players that a sensibly run club would not have awarded to the players in the first place since we did not have any financial security at that time.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 6, 2021)

FWIW I have a lot of faith in the people in charge of the club. I think they're straight up decent people and they've done enormous amounts of work to keep the club going in really difficult circumstances and deserve an enormous amount of credit for it. It's not about having a go at anyone for me and it's not a question of trust. 

For me personally though I'm not really on board with the ethos that seems to be the reasoning behind a lot of this (and this isn't just particular to the board or anything) that it's always for the best to have more fans coming in, more publicity, bigger budgets etc etc. I feel like the spirit that first got me going regularly has gone to be honest - I don't particularly find going to matches (obv pre-covid etc) that enjoyable any more. And it's hard for me to see this documentary as anything other than another step along that line. 

Maybe that's just self-indulgent, and I'm not the one with responsibility for the budget of course, but it's how I feel about it.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2021)

scousedom said:


> Sigh....
> I said what I meant. Here it is again.
> 
> When I said it, did I think you were deliberately being extreme? Yes.
> ...


I wasn't asking about that, as well you know. 

I was asking about your comment about 'hits'. You made me go through all sorts of hoops before you would deign to support your statement, and you still haven't got the balls to say what you actually meant.  But I can't be arsed to listen to any more of your deceitful obfuscation, so let's leave it. 



StephenMac said:


> Genuine question before reversion to 'classic urban':
> Why isn't there some transparency about the financial situation rather than just dark insinuations when people question Crouch's involvement with the club? If there's a problem surely supporters should be told about it.
> 
> Whether you like it or not a lot of people are deeply sceptical about his involvement and I've seen very little from the club to put their minds at rest.


Does anyone actually know what his role is, practically?


----------



## scousedom (Jul 6, 2021)

StephenMac said:


> Genuine question before reversion to 'classic urban':
> Why isn't there some transparency about the financial situation rather than just dark insinuations when people question Crouch's involvement with the club? If there's a problem surely supporters should be told about it.
> 
> Whether you like it or not a lot of people are deeply sceptical about his involvement and I've seen very little from the club to put their minds at rest.


So I have absolutely no knowledge of this and not pretending to. Making that clear at the start.

However, if I think about how the Club would approach budgeting this year, they're going to be looking at a few scenarios. I think we can all agree on that? And that those would likely be best case (full crowd allowance to every game), worst case (no crowds to any game) and a few in the middle.

The variation between best and worst is massive. I've no idea how massive but if best is (roughly) 25 games at 2,000 fans at average of £7 a ticket. Then say double it for in-ground spend. That's £700,000. Discount the in-ground spend by I dunno 75% because it's not all profit and you are still at £437,500*. So the budgeting modelling exercise could show a potential gap subject to the path of Covid in the season of approaching half a million quid.

Now, in my opinion, that isn't a case of "there is a problem and we're not being told". It's a case of "there could be a problem, given a set of circumstances, and (partly because we can't trust the League) the problem could be very significant". 

I think this management have been good at sharing actual financials. I don't think anyone expects them to share budgeting or modelling forecasts though? That's not been done before (to my knowledge). They have said publicly that there is a problem if we can't play in front of crowds. They said that all last season, and especially around the time we stopped playing. And indeed, last season kind of addresses your point because at the point the potential problem became an actual problem, we were told all about it. And they have been saying so since in highlighting how they have been trying to get information out of the League on what will happen in the event of more lockdowns etc. So they have said there could be a problem under given circumstances. They haven't said what the scale of the problem is or could be but I don't think they should. For one thing, budget forecasts weren't shared previously (to my knowledge), nor is it standard for other clubs to do so (to my knowledge), and anyway we can back-of-the-envelope it if we want (I'm sure someone will do a far better job than I have).



*Incidentally, if you divide that by 40 (weeks) you get an £11,000 a week wage budget which feels ballpark ish right...? (Right as in accurate not as in appropriate).


----------



## scousedom (Jul 6, 2021)

editor said:


> I wasn't asking about that, as well you know.
> 
> I was asking about your comment about 'hits'. You made me go through all sorts of hoops before you would deign to support your statement, and you still haven't got the balls to say what you actually meant.  But I can't be arsed to listen to any more of your deceitful obfuscation, so let's leave it.
> 
> ...


My reply about a lack of moderation was in direct response to your questions asking what I meant about hits. My reply is what I meant. But if you still need it spelled out… 

You seem to want to be accused of manufacturing a specific viewpoint for traffic. That is not what I meant. What I meant - as my post earlier today elaborated on - was that this site has a tendency to thrive (get hits) on entrenched extreme positions screaming at each other, or at an absent enemy, rather than calming down and searching for consensus or more understanding (the “doesn’t get hits” part). 

I’m very happy to talk like adults about this at a game, but equally understand if you think “fuck you guy”. After all I recognise that while I’m not being critical in the way you think I am, I am I suppose saying I don’t like a significant aspect of the culture of this (your) site. So it’s perfectly fair for you to say you’ve a million better things to do than chat to me. 

And as I think you, I and the rest of these people have had enough of this - and as I’m painfully aware of the irony of decrying argument while simultaneously being engaged in one - I’m taking a break from commenting on this.


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 6, 2021)

scousedom said:


> My reply about a lack of moderation was in direct response to your questions asking what I meant about hits. My reply is what I meant. But if you still need it spelled out…
> 
> You seem to want to be accused of manufacturing a specific viewpoint for traffic. That is not what I meant. What I meant - as my post earlier today elaborated on - was that this site has a tendency to thrive (get hits) on entrenched extreme positions screaming at each other, or at an absent enemy, rather than calming down and searching for consensus or more understanding (the “doesn’t get hits” part).
> 
> ...



People putting forward their views is a positive. People talking about the feelings of volunteers and the fact the club doesn’t care about the views of those that disagree is a negative.

What does the club do to reward their volunteers? Pay them? Award them shares.

Do nothing? While everyone else gets paid.


----------



## NPDHFC (Jul 6, 2021)

Classic Urban™️


----------



## Pink Panther (Jul 6, 2021)

scousedom said:


> So I have absolutely no knowledge of this and not pretending to. Making that clear at the start.
> 
> However, if I think about how the Club would approach budgeting this year, they're going to be looking at a few scenarios. I think we can all agree on that? And that those would likely be best case (full crowd allowance to every game), worst case (no crowds to any game) and a few in the middle.
> 
> ...


Various information was given to shareholders at an EGM around 8 weeks ago.  I thought a bit more information might have been made public by now, but as a "back of an envelope" effort this is a fair summary. Under the circumstances I'd say our directors have done remarkably well to mitigate the losses to a five figure sum by utilising various government support schemes, having already committed to playing contracts before the League shafted us.  Nevertheless the club made a loss that will now have to be clawed back during the forthcoming season. Five sixths of all losses made by the club since the pandemic began occurred during the four months we were made to play behind closed doors.

It was stated at a public forum in December 2019 that we had a "top six" playing budget (which must have been in the region of £11k a week) and that the club was "debt free".  The club budgeted responsibly for last season in accordance to information given by the National League before the season started, cutting the playing budget by 40% to "about average for the division". However we were completely shafted when the National League committee misled clubs to expect to be compensated according to average gate receipts, leaving us with only about half the grant money we'd budgeted to receive.   Had we known we weren't going to get more money from the lottery grant I'm sure we would have set a lower playing budget and would not have made a loss at all.


----------



## YTC (Jul 6, 2021)

I'd just like to say that in response to B.I.G's point (and i'm very dissapointed he didnt just text me, as he has my number) - No one on the board gets paid at the club. I havent taken a wage from the club since August 2019. The only people that get paid are players, coaches, Dave who runs the bar and bar/matchday staff.



B.I.G said:


> People putting forward their views is a positive. People talking about the feelings of volunteers and the fact the club doesn’t care about the views of those that disagree is a negative.
> 
> What does the club do to reward their volunteers? Pay them? Award them shares.
> 
> Do nothing? While everyone else gets paid.



This is just absolutely not fucking true. We are constantly talking to everyone that comes and helps. I've read Ben's response to editor and it's exactly how we all feel. We have been looking for someone to help at board level (not coaching level) for well over a year now. PC fills that gap. We're currently reviewing the agreements of the doc to make sure we're happy with everything at the moment as the announcement was rushed due to PC's filming commitments.

You know what really hurts me, personally, the most? Almost everyone in this thread has my number or email, and not one of you has reached out to me to ask about anything. You just wind each other up on here, make gross miscalculations about things and make us all wonder why the hell we get up every morning and try and run this football club. 

I think i'll be taking a break from here again. 

You all know where to find me. 

T


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 6, 2021)

YTC said:


> I'd just like to say that in response to B.I.G's point (and i'm very dissapointed he didnt just text me, as he has my number) - No one on the board gets paid at the club. I havent taken a wage from the club since August 2019. The only people that get paid are players, coaches, Dave who runs the bar and bar/matchday staff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
My point being that volunteers should be rewarded with shares in the club.

I think its a good idea.


----------



## YTC (Jul 6, 2021)

That is a good idea, but it doesn't stop the shit surrounding that idea being just that, shit.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2021)

YTC said:


> I'd just like to say that in response to B.I.G's point (and i'm very dissapointed he didnt just text me, as he has my number) - No one on the board gets paid at the club. I havent taken a wage from the club since August 2019. The only people that get paid are players, coaches, Dave who runs the bar and bar/matchday staff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe it might be best if you stayed and helped keep people informed?

I understand your frustration but I don't think the communication has been particularly good over the Crouch's involvement with the club (although I also understand the restrictions that working with media companies can introduce).

But could you clarify exactly what his exact role is because I'm still struggling to work it out.

I haven't got your number or email, so I have to ask here.


----------



## YTC (Jul 6, 2021)

editor - i've emailed you many times mate, so you do have it but that's besides the point.. Ben's email pretty much covered everything. I've been vocal outside of here on why things happened as they did, and it's entirely on the network as to why it happened. The Sun were gonna leak the story 3 weeks before the reveal, they stopped it by giving them an 'hour or exclusivity' on the Documentary story as I literally shouted at them and explained we wouldn't have our name in that fucking rag as you'd expect. It actually gave me a chance to explain to them some other red lines we wont cross, so worked out well.

We were told the Doc news would come out before the announcement of peter joining us, that then changed to just after, which changed to the next day (s*n bollocks) - that then dropped, but then the news about us and the doc kept getting pushed back, and back, and back, as it does with these fucking huge multifaceted corps. Hence why finally on the Friday we put a statement out as we were sick of waiting.

Peter is coming in to experience everything at the club, but primarily to help on the football side of things. We've been leaning on Alan Smith, Kimm Connet and at times Steve Coppel for some experience but we have been looking for the right fit for both Gav and Ryan. Both are happy to be working with Peter over the coming season.

I would absolutely love to stick around, but my mental health is more valuable than that. I can assure you this forum at times is detrimental to that.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2021)

YTC said:


> editor - i've emailed you many times mate, so you do have it but that's besides the point..


I honestly don't know who you are in real life!

In fact there's very few names here I can connect to people in the 'real world' and that's probably a good thing given all the arguing that goes on here!


----------



## YTC (Jul 6, 2021)

editor said:


> I honestly don't know who you are in real life!
> 
> In fact there's very few names here I can connect to people in the 'real world' and that's probably a good thing given all the arguing that goes on here!


I know keeping an eye on this big forum must be tricky, but i've just replied to one of the messages in you urban inbox where i've quite clearly told you who I am and sent you my DHFC email. Just for clarity.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2021)

YTC said:


> I know keeping an eye on this big forum must be tricky, but i've just replied to one of the messages in you urban inbox where i've quite clearly told you who I am and sent you my DHFC email. Just for clarity.


When was that sent? And you do realise that it's entirely possible that I still not may equate your face to your name, yes?
I get sent hundreds of emails every week and I'm not very good with names at the best of times, or remembering what specific jobs or roles people may have.


----------



## YTC (Jul 6, 2021)

But you know from this account my position at the club, and you have my email sent in that DM (and the other emails I've sent you) so while I'm glad you did reach out to Ben (which you can always do!) you also have my details - especially when it comes to comms.


----------



## YTC (Jul 6, 2021)

So - after that, myself and probably all members of the board will be at Carshalton on Saturday, if anyone wants to ask about it or anything, just come and ask. As always!


----------



## Effra Eyes (Jul 14, 2021)

YTC said:


> editor - i've emailed you many times mate, so you do have it but that's besides the point.. Ben's email pretty much covered everything. I've been vocal outside of here on why things happened as they did, and it's entirely on the network as to why it happened. The Sun were gonna leak the story 3 weeks before the reveal, they stopped it by giving them an 'hour or exclusivity' on the Documentary story as I literally shouted at them and explained we wouldn't have our name in that fucking rag as you'd expect. It actually gave me a chance to explain to them some other red lines we wont cross, so worked out well.
> 
> We were told the Doc news would come out before the announcement of peter joining us, that then changed to just after, which changed to the next day (s*n bollocks) - that then dropped, but then the news about us and the doc kept getting pushed back, and back, and back, as it does with these fucking huge multifaceted corps. Hence why finally on the Friday we put a statement out as we were sick of waiting.
> 
> ...


Just to back up everything Tom said here. Especially about 'The S*n', it was a horrible situation beyond anyone at Hamlet or the Production Companies control and caused by one rogue person, happily not associated with DHFC, getting wind of what was being proposed (and at this stage it was just a proposal, neither Peter or the doc were signed off) and trying to sell a story. Had it gone ahead the whole thing could have unravelled before it begun.

As I've mentioned before, I did the initial introductions between the doc makers and DHFC because I was confident this was a company that had good intentions, make quality shows and wanted to reflect our wonderful club in its true light.

I'm not working on the production currently. I merely helped out on the day of the intro filming with PC as this is my day job usually and as everything happened so fast the film crew assigned to the club for the season had not yet been found by the production company. They have been now, and as well as being experienced and very nice, I'm sure fans will find them unintrusive as these things go.

Tom is best person to speak to of course, but I'm also always happy to answer any concerns/ explain the rationale behind my faith in this project either by DM on here or in the flesh at any game.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 15, 2021)

I don't want a film crew at all, "very nice and unintrusive " or not. 

How long and what will PCs involvement in the club be?.


----------



## Pink Panther (Jul 15, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> I don't want a film crew at all, "very nice and unintrusive " or not.


Whatever the club does there will probably be someone who doesn't want it. The club made a large five figure loss on being forced to play behind closed doors last season, having been misled by the National League in setting a viable budget at the start.

I don't especially want a film crew at matches but I'm not especially bothered either. Options to recover last season's losses included raising all the prices for supporters, slashing this season's playing budget, or finding more creative ways of bringing extra funding into the club. Personally I'm happy with the way it's gone so far, under the circumstances.


----------



## blueheaven (Jul 15, 2021)

Didn't we have these same complaints about a film crew at matches during our promotion season? They had a pretty big presence for a few matches, especially during the play-offs if I'm remembering correctly. I seem to remember at the time there were rumours that they were making a documentary. What was that even for?


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2021)

blueheaven said:


> Didn't we have these same complaints about a film crew at matches during our promotion season? They had a pretty big presence for a few matches, especially during the play-offs if I'm remembering correctly. I seem to remember at the time there were rumours that they were making a documentary. What was that even for?


They pissed me off as well. I had to hide my face a few times when I could see them zooming in. One of the great appeals of non league football for me is that it's usually 'off the grid' and free from media crews and hype.

And it's a good question. What were they filming for?


----------



## Effra Eyes (Jul 15, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> I don't want a film crew at all, "very nice and unintrusive " or not.
> 
> How long and what will PCs involvement in the club be?.


Fraid that's a question for PC and or the board.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 15, 2021)

Pink Panther said:


> Whatever the club does there will probably be someone who doesn't want it. The club made a large five figure loss on being forced to play behind closed doors last season, having been misled by the National League in setting a viable budget at the start.
> 
> I don't especially want a film crew at matches but I'm not especially bothered either. Options to recover last season's losses included raising all the prices for supporters, slashing this season's playing budget, or finding more creative ways of bringing extra funding into the club. Personally I'm happy with the way it's gone so far, under the circumstances.


They could do a combination of those things, like a lot of clubs at our level will be doing.

I don't actually see the publicity we've had so far as a good thing, i don't go as much as I used to, lots of people don't go anymore at all or stand behind the goal and I can't see this helping, the club should be wondering how to get those people back, not get more day trippers in.

I might be getting into old fogey territory but are there not things which don't have to be packaged up and sold on tv?


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 15, 2021)

sleaterkinney said:


> They could do a combination of those things, like a lot of clubs at our level will be doing.
> 
> I don't actually see the publicity we've had so far as a good thing, i don't go as much as I used to, lots of people don't go anymore at all or stand behind the goal and I can't see this helping, the club should be wondering how to get those people back, not get more day trippers in.
> 
> I might be getting into old fogey territory but are there not things which don't have to be packaged up and sold on tv?



Our owner gets the sort of people in that he wants and especially the sort that he wants behind the goal.

And there is zero point any fan writing things on a fans forum as its easier to dismiss things one on one.

They can’t even admit that Peter Crouch won’t be sticking around.


----------



## Scottfield (Jul 16, 2021)

editor said:


> They pissed me off as well. I had to hide my face a few times when I could see them zooming in. One of the great appeals of non league football for me is that it's usually 'off the grid' and free from media crews and hype.
> 
> And it's a good question. What were they filming for?


Tell me about it! it was bad enough when that guy with the hair used to go round taking crowd shots and pictures of the ground-keeping equipment and posting it on that blog... but to have it filmed for TV...


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2021)

Scottfield said:


> Tell me about it! it was bad enough when that guy with the hair used to go round taking crowd shots and pictures of the ground-keeping equipment and posting it on that blog... but to have it filmed for TV...


Difference was that the 'guy with the hair' was there because he loved the club and 'that blog' contributed in no small part to increasing the crowds at Champion Hill. 

And of course, it was a labour of love and the images weren't being flogged off or used to further the career of a pro-gambling celebrity.


----------



## MrFouldsy (Jul 23, 2021)

Can anyone recommend a personalised house name plate manufacturer? Will be fixed to a gate.


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jul 23, 2021)

Go down your local forge


----------



## PartisanDulwich (Jul 24, 2021)

yes Editor, very grateful for your photography, posts and establishing this site - certainly vital part in the revitalisation of Dulwich Hamlet in recent years
incalculable - in my personal opinion


----------



## pettyboy (Jul 28, 2021)

"Peter Crouch baby, ain't nothing but Dulwich / So let's do like they do on the Discovery Channel"


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jul 28, 2021)

pettyboy said:


> "Peter Crouch baby, ain't nothing but Dulwich / So let's do like they do on the Discovery Channel"


rabble/channel ?


----------



## Cyclodunc (Jul 28, 2021)

like it though


----------



## Buffalo Bill (Aug 3, 2021)

supersafari said:


> Have yet to see any adverts for bookmakers during the Tour de France coverage. The ad breaks are very sedentary: think Rafa Nadal in an open-neck shirt, holding a glass of wine, gently promoting tourism in Mallorca.
> 
> The ad-breaks during football assault the senses. Like walking through a pachinko parlour where floating heads with British regional accents bellow at you to gamble simply for the sake of it.



Just a detail, speaking as someone who has followed the TdF since 1987, and has been to France to watch from the roadside, I can tell you that the TdF is a deeply venal spectacle. There may not be ads for gambling during the UK coverage, but two of the biggest French team are Francaise des Jeux (lottery) and Cofidis (more or less a pay-day loan company). PMU, which is the state gambling monopoly, sponsored one of the competitions for many years and their branding was literally all over the event. Fiat & Peugeot were also big sponsors. There are a host of other reasons to repelled by some aspects of the event (podium girls, the 4000 motor vehicles associated with the event, the caravan publicitaire which is pretty close to an actual physical assault, etc) and that is before we get to the welfare of the actual athletes....

Like I said, just a detail.


----------



## AveryDave (Aug 12, 2021)

Any chance any of us that couldn’t be at the ground tonight can see the new kit?


----------



## T Corcoran (Aug 12, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> Any chance that any of us that couldn’t be at the ground tonight can see the new kit?


I believe there will be pics tomorrow on social media. I never took any photos but the home is predominantly blue with a pink sash/line across the top but it doesn't go all the way down like the kit a few years ago. The away one is reverse colours


----------



## Pink Panther (Aug 12, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> Any chance that any of us that couldn’t be at the ground tonight can see the new kit?


I'm sure better images will be available shortly but these was the best snaps I could get having arrived too late to see the players wearing it.


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Aug 13, 2021)

Very on trend for the 90s retro revival. Like the Adidas shirts from that period.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 13, 2021)

...


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2021)

Spot the photo op


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 13, 2021)

Pink Panther said:


> I'm sure better images will be available shortly but these was the best snaps I could get having arrived too late to see the players wearing it.



I'm not sold. I think both shirts look too messy and over complicated. The sash parts draw the eye all over the shop. 






Stuart Fordyce said:


> Very on trend for the 90s retro revival. Like the Adidas shirts from that period.
> 
> View attachment 283392



I think seeing our shirt compared to that mobs seals the deal.


----------



## Pink Panther (Aug 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> I'm not sold. I think both shirts look too messy and over complicated. The sash parts draw the eye all over the shop.


I'm not a fan myself. Our colours are so unusual it doesn't need a weird template to stand out. I'm now rather envious of this season's Coventry City away shirt, which is a very smart pink and navy halves with no fiddly trimmings. 

On a practical note I think the home shirt is too dark and needs more pink (our colours are pink *and* blue, not blue with pink trim) and I'm puzzled that the away shirt also has navy sleeves.


----------



## AveryDave (Aug 14, 2021)

Would like to see more pink on the home shirt as has been said, always think a trick has been missed when there's too much blue (like the kits with the single pink band across the middle circa 2016-17) but like the away one a lot.

Will the women's team be wearing the same kits for their season? Or will they have a less pink away kit that becomes the men's team third kit as with the last couple of seasons?


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Aug 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> I'm not sold. I think both shirts look too messy and over complicated. The sash parts draw the eye all over the shop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


An iconic shirt from a great Rangers team. I like it!


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 14, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> An iconic shirt from a great Rangers team. I like it!



A rag from a hateful team that no longer exists worn in the photo by a colossal prick.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> A rag from a hateful team that no longer exists worn in the photo by a colossal prick.


As dislikeable as they may be Atleast they didn’t have a culture of turning a blind eye to sexual abuse of kids.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 14, 2021)

1927 said:


> As dislikeable as they may be Atleast they didn’t have a culture of turning a blind eye to sexual abuse of kids.



Yes because Gordon Neely was a figment of his victims imagination eh? Ah there it is.

And that's from such a pro-Hun newspaper too.


----------



## 1927 (Aug 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Yes because Gordon Neely was a figment of his victims imagination eh? Ah there it is.
> 
> And that's from such a pro-Hun newspaper too.


“It was unable to establish whether he had been formally reported to police but two former senior managers were commended for taking "reasonable steps to deal promptly with the allegations".  Don’t remember big Jock being commended! 🤔


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 14, 2021)

1927 said:


> “It was unable to establish whether he had been formally reported to police but two former senior managers were commended for taking "reasonable steps to deal promptly with the allegations".  Don’t remember big Jock being commended! 🤔



Ah so sexual abuse by OldCo = doubtful and all that.

Same by Celtic = Evil. 

And there i was thinking that any abuse of kids is unforgivable. Silly me, I forgot that the Gers get a free pass with this as well as their racist fans, sectarian ties in Scotland and further afield etc.


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Aug 14, 2021)

Can we not point score about child abuse for fucks sake?


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Aug 14, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Yes because Gordon Neely was a figment of his victims imagination eh? Ah there it is.
> 
> And that's from such a pro-Hun newspaper too.


Whataboutery on a subject like this? You need to have a look at yourself.


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Aug 14, 2021)

1927 said:


> As dislikeable as they may be Atleast they didn’t have a culture of turning a blind eye to sexual abuse of kids.


Really not needed


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 14, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> Whataboutery on a subject like this? You need to have a look at yourself.



I didn't start it.


----------



## Moroccan Sunset (Aug 14, 2021)

Pink Panther said:


> I'm not a fan myself. Our colours are so unusual it doesn't need a weird template to stand out. I'm now rather envious of this season's Coventry City away shirt, which is a very smart pink and navy halves with no fiddly trimmings.
> 
> On a practical note I think the home shirt is too dark and needs more pink (our colours are pink *and* blue, not blue with pink trim) and I'm puzzled that the away shirt also has navy sleeves.



Completely agree. Dont like either kit. I thought the home shirt was lacking a lot of pink, too. 

I wondered, given the return of Crouch, whether we'd go with pink and blue quarters this season.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 14, 2021)

Moroccan Sunset said:


> Completely agree. Dont like either kit. I thought the home shirt was lacking a lot of pink, too.
> 
> I wondered, given the return of Crouch, whether we'd go with pink and blue quarters this season.



Ehhhhh, I'm still crossing my fingers for a return of the World Books kit.


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Aug 14, 2021)

Moroccan Sunset said:


> Completely agree. Dont like either kit. I thought the home shirt was lacking a lot of pink, too.
> 
> I wondered, given the return of Crouch, whether we'd go with pink and blue quarters this season.


Was Crouch at the game today (unlike me)?


----------



## B.I.G (Aug 14, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> Was Crouch at the game today (unlike me)?



He was. Contractually obliged filming presumably.


----------



## Nivag (Aug 15, 2021)

He stayed late in the bar drinking with some of the team.


----------



## blueheaven (Aug 16, 2021)

1927 said:


> “It was unable to establish whether he had been formally reported to police but two former senior managers were commended for taking "reasonable steps to deal promptly with the allegations".  Don’t remember big Jock being commended! 🤔



Jeez, as a Scot in London I thought by following the Hamlet I'd escape all this Old Firm tit-for-tat rubbish.

On the subject of the new kit, I'm not a massive fan of the design personally, and I'd like the pink to be brighter (to me it's looked a bit pale/washed out on the last couple of kits). But it's something a bit different and I think we needed a refresh - it'll probably grow on me.


----------



## Pink Panther (Aug 16, 2021)

blueheaven said:


> On the subject of the new kit, I'm not a massive fan of the design personally, and I'd like the pink to be brighter (to me it's looked a bit pale/washed out on the last couple of kits). But it's something a bit different and I think we needed a refresh - it'll probably grow on me.


I thought it looked better once I was watching a team playing in it but I still won't want a replica myself.  The away one with blue shorts and socks, and no white, would make a better home kit IMO.  (I understand the white flashes on that shirt are a mistake and the home design originally had pink & white flashes before the manufacturers were told it would be unacceptable.)  Dark kits under non-league floodlights just don't stand out well enough.  At least the white numbers are very easy to read from long distance; the pink numbers of the last two seasons were more aesthetically pleasing but didn't stand out quite so well.  (I curse all those clubs who think gold numbers on a white shirt, or white numbers on a yellow shirt, looks nice!)


----------



## Nivag (Aug 16, 2021)

Didn't know where else to post this, so I thought I'd stick it here.


----------



## Al Crane (Aug 16, 2021)

Short video covering Peter's unveiling is now up:


----------



## EDC (Aug 16, 2021)

Pink Panther said:


> I thought it looked better once I was watching a team playing in it but I still won't want a replica myself.  The away one with blue shorts and socks, and no white, would make a better home kit IMO.  (I understand the white flashes on that shirt are a mistake and the home design originally had pink & white flashes before the manufacturers were told it would be unacceptable.)  Dark kits under non-league floodlights just don't stand out well enough.  At least the why the numbers are very easy to read from long distance; the pink numbers of the last two seasons were more aesthetically pleasing but didn't stand out quite so well.  (I curse all those clubs who think gold numbers on a white shirt, or white numbers on a yellow shirt, looks nice!)


Still like the Late Knights kit, went hand in hand with their excellent beer.


----------



## Bugpowder Dust (Aug 30, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> Very on trend for the 90s retro revival. Like the Adidas shirts from that period.
> 
> View attachment 283392


Urgh I just threw up in my mouth. Hard to think of a club with values further away than us


----------



## pompeydunc (Sep 16, 2021)

Crouchy getting loan players in from Pompey and club has a lot of financial problems according to the producer... Perhaps we do?!









						Anyone need goals? Why former England striker Peter Crouch was back at Pompey
					

Peter Crouch was back at Pompey – but sadly not for a third playing stint.




					www.portsmouth.co.uk


----------



## B.I.G (Sep 16, 2021)

pompeydunc said:


> Crouchy getting loan players in from Pompey and club has a lot of financial problems according to the producer... Perhaps we do?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hahahahaaha good spot pompeydunc 

“Darke told _The News_: ‘The documentary follows the progress of Dulwich Hamlet, who have a lot of financial problems.”


----------



## B.I.G (Sep 16, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Hahahahaaha good spot pompeydunc
> 
> “Darke told _The News_: ‘The documentary follows the progress of Dulwich Hamlet, who have a lot of financial problems.”



I love this documentary and the people making it. Who love to run down the club. Its on its goddamn knees don’t you know? Maybe the director of the show needs to email the Chairman to find out what 1900 fans buying beer vs the wage budget means for the financial stability of the club.


----------



## B.I.G (Sep 16, 2021)

Forget the money… this is my new favourite bit.

“However, the idea is he comes in and builds a football infrastructure, signing players, trying to sell players so they can bring in money for the club, and helping out the manager on the football side in any way he can.”

No wonder we have been doing better this season. Crouchie is in charge of buying and selling players.

He must have had a power grab from Gav 😂


----------



## tonysingh (Sep 16, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Hahahahaaha good spot pompeydunc
> 
> “Darke told _The News_: ‘The documentary follows the progress of Dulwich Hamlet, who have a lot of financial problems.”





B.I.G said:


> I love this documentary and the people making it. Who love to run down the club. Its on its goddamn knees don’t you know? Maybe the director of the show needs to email the Chairman to find out what 1900 fans buying beer vs the wage budget means for the financial stability of the club.





B.I.G said:


> Forget the money… this is my new favourite bit.
> 
> “However, the idea is he comes in and builds a football infrastructure, signing players, trying to sell players so they can bring in money for the club, and helping out the manager on the football side in any way he can.”
> 
> ...




Careful, this could be seen as heresy, you're speaking against our saviour, the Holy Crouch.


----------



## blueheaven (Sep 17, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> Hahahahaaha good spot pompeydunc
> 
> “Darke told _The News_: ‘The documentary follows the progress of Dulwich Hamlet, who have a lot of financial problems.”



When I look at that link I see the quote as _"Darke told The News: ‘The documentary follows the progress of Dulwich Hamlet, who face financial challenges like a lot of clubs at that level.'"_

Have they updated the article or have you misquoted it?


----------



## B.I.G (Sep 17, 2021)

blueheaven said:


> When I look at that link I see the quote as _"Darke told The News: ‘The documentary follows the progress of Dulwich Hamlet, who face financial challenges like a lot of clubs at that level.'"_
> 
> Have they updated the article or have you misquoted it?



I copied and pasted it so they must have updated it, you can believe I copied and pasted it as it has formatting and I'm too lazy.

Plus if I wanted to make some stuff up it would be wild and more explosive so you can believe that too


----------



## AveryDave (Sep 17, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> “However, the idea is he comes in and builds a football infrastructure, signing players, trying to sell players so they can bring in money for the club, and helping out the manager on the football side in any way he can.”


There's so much fun to unpack from that line alone.

Compound it with the financial stuff and it makes us sound like we're being run like a Sunday league outfit who will hawk any vaguely talented player to anyone who can rustle up a couple of quid and maybe some new training bibs. Must seem enticing to anyone thinking of investing some money in the club, or who might feel inclined to call into question the club's stability ahead of a monumentally important stadium development progamme.

From the club's perspective I'd suggest they need to either reel this Darke guy in (maybe not for the first time) and make it clear he needs to stop spouting hyperbolic nonsense to whoever will listen to him (The Portsmouth News!), or if he's accurate on any point, give some genuine clarity to the current state of the club and what Crouch's role is, which still remains pretty vague three months in.

And the usual caveat - I'm sure those closer to the situation will again feel frustrated with some of the feedback here, this post included - but if we aren't privy to what the benefits are or will be, we can only go on what's being put out there.


----------



## bkbk (Sep 17, 2021)

Apart from the loan bit it seems a bit at odds with what Gavin said a month or so back too where he was pretty clear it was away from the football pitch he'd be supporting:

But long-serving Dulwich manager Gavin Rose said: “He might know a mate in football who can get us a loan but anything about being on the grass is not in an official capacity.

“It is about the opportunity to fundraise and raise awareness on issues that, at times, have gone by the wayside in the last few years – like our youth provision community schemes.

“It is mainly off the football pitch that we think Peter wants to get involved in and that we can benefit from.”


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 17, 2021)

'Strictly off the pitch' seems very unlikely to be what a TV company producing a documentary about a football club will be after TBH.


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Sep 17, 2021)

Unless we've got injuries, do we need to add to the squad? We seemed to have the numbers Gavin was after - unless some folk are on game by game deals.

Moreover, it looks a good squad. Saturday was the sort of match we would have drawn or lost in the past two seasons, but we kept the head, on occasion played good football, and ground out a good result. That's despite Holland being missing and their mastery of time wasting, coupled to a fussy ref.


----------



## Pink Panther (Sep 17, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> Unless we've got injuries, do we need to add to the squad? We seemed to have the numbers Gavin was after - unless some folk are on game by game deals.
> 
> Moreover, it looks a good squad. Saturday was the sort of match we would have drawn or lost in the past two seasons, but we kept the head, on occasion played good football, and ground out a good result. That's despite Holland being missing and their mastery of time wasting, coupled to a fussy ref.


We've just added the two new defenders who were on the bench last Sunday but I don't know the exact nature of their deals.  We will inevitably wish to add one or two more players at some point.  Danny Cowley has managed at this level, so I would imagine Gavin is acquainted with him.  He should be well able to judge which sort of young players would be of mutual benefit at a club in our division if any loan deals are forthcoming.  However we did have that goalkeeper on loan from Portsmouth last season who never played (Duncan Turnbull?) who was subsequently recalled early!


----------



## pompeydunc (Sep 17, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> I copied and pasted it so they must have updated it, you can believe I copied and pasted it as it has formatting and I'm too lazy.
> 
> Plus if I wanted to make some stuff up it would be wild and more explosive so you can believe that too



I understand the journalist misquoted the producer, so it was corrected once noted. Urban power!


----------



## B.I.G (Sep 17, 2021)

pompeydunc said:


> I understand the journalist misquoted the producer, so it was corrected once noted. Urban power!



Convenient 😀


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Sep 18, 2021)

Pink Panther said:


> We've just added the two new defenders who were on the bench last Sunday but I don't know the exact nature of their deals.  We will inevitably wish to add one or two more players at some point.  Danny Cowley has managed at this level, so I would imagine Gavin is acquainted with him.  He should be well able to judge which sort of young players would be of mutual benefit at a club in our division if any loan deals are forthcoming.  However we did have that goalkeeper on loan from Portsmouth last season who never played (Duncan Turnbull?) who was subsequently recalled early!



Think the loans have to be mutually beneficial, or emergency cover. Have to be some keeper to displace Charlie...

Also, if anyone knows about financially challenged clubs, it must be "Pay Up Pompey" supporters. How many times have they gone into administration, with monies owed to all and sundry?


----------



## AveryDave (Dec 13, 2021)

Peter's been talking to the media ahead of the series being available to stream from 28th December.

Sounds like he's trying to do all kinds of things to help, but still find it frustrating that the only way we find out about them is when he's promoting the series.









						Peter Crouch has been 'all in' as a non-league director of football
					

EXCLUSIVE: Peter Crouch is an artist of self-deprecation, but is keen to impress how serious this job is for him. The Del Boy of Dulwich? 'No, come on. Do I look like Del Boy? Definitely Rodney.'




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				












						Peter Crouch admits "no swearing and fighting" has left him baffled in new role
					

Peter Crouch became the director of football at non league side Dulwich Hamlet this summer, but had revealed that he is baffled by the lack of swearing and fighting at that level




					www.dailystar.co.uk


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 13, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> Peter's been talking to the media ahead of the series being available to stream from 28th December.
> 
> Sounds like he's trying to do all kinds of things to help, but still find it frustrating that the only way we find out about them is when he's promoting the series.
> 
> ...



Can you give more of a precis? Not clicking either of them right wing hate rags.


----------



## AveryDave (Dec 13, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Can you give more of a precis? Not clicking either of them right wing hate rags.


Yeah, would ideally like to avoid them as well.

Probably not as daft or bombastic as some of the earlier pieces that played up the plight of the club - the Mail piece in particular covers a bit of his and the clubs history with some nice background - and he seems to genuinely be into it and trying to do stuff, albeit some bits that make it sound like we're a comedy outfit.

Selected 'highlights':

_‘I loved it that night on the terrace,’_ [the St. Albans game] _he says. ‘Apart from the no swearing! I couldn’t understand it… why aren’t these people fighting?! It’s very pleasant... Dulwich is an affluent area and the games are nothing like I’ve ever experienced in football. Not the sort of football people that I know, a totally different vibe.’

The Dulwich board of directors wanted to hear Crouch’s plans for improvement before his arrival_ [he did a PowerPoint presentation to the Board with the help of his daughter before he came in, would be interested to see that...]

_He is working contacts to source equipment to benefit manager Gavin Rose’s promotion bid. Training vests, heart monitors, an app that tracks each player’s performance. ‘I want it a little bit more professional, similar to what I had,’ he says.

'We only had one player at the start of the season. Gav and I went round trying to entice players to sign on less money. We’ve only got 14 really, plus some kids. The standard is good, it really is. To see them all signed up and happy, winning games, is special.’

‘I never want it to be seen as me coming here with the cameras as a circus. I completely understand all of those fears and the only way I can alleviate them is by getting stuff done, improvements that everyone can see... You don’t want someone strolling in and out again, leaving the club in a worse place. That is the last thing I want to do.'

‘Some people don’t want it to be too glamorous. Or don’t want to go up too high. There are some people who like being non-league, which of course is nice but you have to aspire to something.'

The training ground — or lack of one — is the bane of Crouch’s existence right now. Sessions are on the first-team pitch, which the women’s side also use, and there are fears for its state over winter. _[there's a long bit about how he's trying to sort out a permanent place for the first team to train, the current target being a school sports ground near Elephant & Castle] _I had to sort of blag our way into a school to train really, I’ve agreed to give a talk to some of the kids!’

‘You know what is so difficult?’ he asks. ‘I always come in with the intention to do this or that and then the moment I walk in there is always a problem! Something has happened. We can’t train. Or the floodlights have failed. Everyone was holding floodlights on the pitch to see if they were bright enough at one point._'


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 13, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> Yeah, would ideally like to avoid them as well.
> 
> Probably not as daft or bombastic as some of the earlier pieces that played up the plight of the club - the Mail piece in particular covers a bit of his and the clubs history with some nice background - and he seems to genuinely be into it and trying to do stuff, albeit some bits that make it sound like we're a comedy outfit.
> 
> ...



Ta. I owe you a Bovril. 

Gotta say, I might be misreading the intent in that first paragraph but fuck me it's annoying. Can't quite explain why.


----------



## blueheaven (Dec 14, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> _The training ground — or lack of one — is the bane of Crouch’s existence right now. Sessions are on the first-team pitch, which the women’s side also use, and there are fears for its state over winter. _[there's a long bit about how he's trying to sort out a permanent place for the first team to train, the current target being a school sports ground near Elephant & Castle] _I had to sort of blag our way into a school to train really, I’ve agreed to give a talk to some of the kids!’_


Surprised by this part - I have a memory of it being announced a couple of years ago (I think the same time as it was announced we were going full-time) that the club had secured a local school sports ground to be used as a training ground. Did I imagine that?


----------



## scousedom (Dec 14, 2021)

blueheaven said:


> Surprised by this part - I have a memory of it being announced a couple of years ago (I think the same time as it was announced we were going full-time) that the club had secured a local school sports ground to be used as a training ground. Did I imagine that?


I think they can use Alleyn’s (I think) from time to time. But not for every session they would want to do. And possibly that is restricted more in term time with covid protocols etc. Sorry, that’s not exactly encyclopaedic knowledge…


----------



## Taper (Dec 14, 2021)

Isn't the plan they develop the [St Olave's?] playing fields just down the road off Greendale?  Or one of those fenced off sites around Greendale


----------



## Stuart Fordyce (Dec 14, 2021)

Also, given we are flying at the moment, do we still qualify as a struggling club?


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Dec 14, 2021)

Wonder who the one good player is that has got the club into 3rd.


----------



## EDC (Dec 14, 2021)

Taper said:


> Isn't the plan they develop the [St Olave's?] playing fields just down the road off Greendale?  Or one of those fenced off sites around Greendale


I’m sure that was announced a couple of seasons ago that they were training there and local schools were invited & participating.  Looks a bit of a mess over there right now though.


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> Also, given we are flying at the moment, do we still qualify as a struggling club?


Ah but that's only because of the presence of Crouch sweeping up the leaves off the terraces and being around Champion Hill with his film crew. See! It's working already! 

Roll cameras! Cue documentary awards!


----------



## PartisanDulwich (Dec 14, 2021)

The St Olaves site seems rarely used - what a waste


----------



## Bugpowder Dust (Dec 15, 2021)

As you walk on the footpath heading away from the ground, you have St olaves playing field on the left with the pavilion where we trained in the full time season (woefully underused) and another fenced off ground on the right which I don't know who owns (criminally underused).

I've always wondered why the 'save greendale' mob don't bat an eyelid about the latter; it's been left to grow wild since covid for no benefit to the local community whatsoever.


----------



## blueheaven (Dec 15, 2021)

Bugpowder Dust said:


> As you walk on the footpath heading away from the ground, you have St olaves playing field on the left with the pavilion where we trained in the full time season (woefully underused) and another fenced off ground on the right which I don't know who owns (criminally underused).
> 
> I've always wondered why the 'save greendale' mob don't bat an eyelid about the latter; it's been left to grow wild since covid for no benefit to the local community whatsoever.


Has the whole full-time thing been completely abandoned now, then? Have we gone back to training in the evenings?


----------



## EDC (Dec 15, 2021)

Bugpowder Dust said:


> As you walk on the footpath heading away from the ground, you have St olaves playing field on the left with the pavilion where we trained in the full time season (woefully underused) and another fenced off ground on the right which I don't know who owns (criminally underused).
> 
> I've always wondered why the 'save greendale' mob don't bat an eyelid about the latter; it's been left to grow wild since covid for no benefit to the local community whatsoever.


I think that field had something to do with Charter School, I’m not 100% certain of that though.


----------



## Cyclodunc (Dec 16, 2021)

Bugpowder Dust said:


> As you walk on the footpath heading away from the ground, you have St olaves playing field on the left with the pavilion where we trained in the full time season (woefully underused) and another fenced off ground on the right which I don't know who owns (criminally underused).
> 
> I've always wondered why the 'save greendale' mob don't bat an eyelid about the latter; it's been left to grow wild since covid for no benefit to the local community whatsoever.



more re-wilding should be happening. Get some wild pigs, longhorn cattle and fallow deer and wild ponies on there


----------



## blueheaven (Dec 16, 2021)

Doesn't seem to be any other mention of this on here, but Peter Crouch was on The One Show last night and spoke quite a lot about his current role. It's probably up on iPlayer by now.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2021)

blueheaven said:


> Doesn't seem to be any other mention of this on here, but Peter Crouch was on The One Show last night and spoke quite a lot about his current role. It's probably up on iPlayer by now.


Comes to something when you have to watch the One Show to find out what's happening at your local non league team.


----------



## AveryDave (Dec 16, 2021)

editor said:


> Comes to something when you have to watch the One Show to find out what's happening at your local non league team.


Disappointing but perhaps not surprising that Crouch has been willing to put time to promoting the programme rather than communicating with the fans.

He’s clearly been doing a lot of stuff, and just feels like a shame that details of that are seemingly being held back for the benefit of the documentary - I’m sure he’d have got more support and engagement if it had been made public on a regular basis.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2021)

AveryDave said:


> Disappointing but perhaps not surprising that Crouch has been willing to put time to promoting the programme rather than communicating with the fans.
> 
> He’s clearly been doing a lot of stuff, and just feels like a shame that details of that are seemingly being held back for the benefit of the documentary - I’m sure he’d have got more support and engagement if it had been made public on a regular basis.


It's exactly what I expected. Documentary and self-promotion comes first every time, with the fans coming absolutely last.


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## Stuart Fordyce (Dec 16, 2021)

has he had his Discord Q&A? Changed my phone and now can't get back in


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## gnar182 (Dec 16, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> has he had his Discord Q&A? Changed my phone and now can't get back in



Nah got postponed now the question about re arrangement keeps getting dodged. Bottle job, classic Spurs player.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> has he had his Discord Q&A? Changed my phone and now can't get back in


The whole thing was a bit of PR flannel to try and turn down the heat of fans' rightly being concerned about his betting promotion.

Imagine being too busy to answer some fucking questions after what - two months? He doesn't even have to do it live on that ridiculous gaming chat platform either. He's already been asked some good questions so it only needs someone to put them together and email them to him with a polite request he answers some time this week. Job done.

Of course he could have answered them in the time it took for him to pose for that laughable 'man of the people' PR press shot of him clearing away leaves at Champion Hill for 60 seconds.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2021)

Stuart Fordyce said:


> has he had his Discord Q&A? Changed my phone and now can't get back in


----------



## tonysingh (Dec 16, 2021)

editor said:


> The whole thing was a bit of PR flannel to try and turn down the heat of fans' rightly being concerned about his betting promotion.
> 
> Imagine being too busy to answer some fucking questions after what - two months? He doesn't even have to do it live on that ridiculous gaming chat platform either. He's already been asked some good questions so it only needs someone to put them together and email them to him with a polite request he answers some time this week. Job done.
> 
> Of course he could have answered them in the time it took for him to pose for that laughable 'man of the people' PR press shot of him clearing away leaves at Champion Hill for 60 seconds.



Ah but we're only the little people aren't we? Hardly important now the glare of the TV cameras are upon us. Best the big fish swim in the fetid pond of celebrity.


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 16, 2021)

The apologists have moved to official club social media now. Where the club avoid feedback unless its from people they have approved in advance.


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## tonysingh (Dec 16, 2021)

B.I.G said:


> The apologists have moved to official club social media now. Where the club avoid feedback unless its from people they have approved in advance.



The irony of the clubs official social media engagement platform being called Discord is delicious


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Dec 17, 2021)

In The Guardian 'best shows to stream this Christmas'


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2021)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> In The Guardian 'best shows to stream this Christmas'
> 
> View attachment 301435


Why have our scarves 'fluttered less defiantly in the last couple of years'?  

Anyway, like a lot of fans, I haven't got a subscription to Discovery so I'm never going to see it anyway.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 18, 2021)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> In The Guardian 'best shows to stream this Christmas'
> 
> View attachment 301435



Hang on, are we not the hipster's club of choice any more? Who has taken our hipsters?


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2021)

Oh he's on LBC now. Maybe one day he'll have time to talk to the Hamlet fans.





__





						LBC London - Listen Live | Global Player
					

Listen Live to LBC on Global Player. Leading Britain's Conversation




					www.globalplayer.com


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2021)

So our  'director of football' has no comment about Newcastle's takeover. 
So vaccinations are a 'personal issue' for footballers, and he won't criticise anyone who chooses not to be vaccinated because it's 'their opinion.' 
And barely a word said about Hamlet.


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## Christian Burt (Dec 23, 2021)

I just saw the trailer and Ben said we are 130k in debt, with zero in bank (start of the season). Is this actually true? That’s not a loaded question btw! Genuinely did not think this was the case, but could well be owing to pandemic and season end?


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## Roger D (Dec 24, 2021)

I am a very minor shareholder and those figures are about right. Had the season played on to a conclusion behind closed doors, the debt would have been horrendous.

Ben and co. deserve huge credit. They foresaw what may happen and amended the budget downwards last season, to reduce risk. Without that, the club may not have made it to the point where the season was abandoned.

Pandemics permitting, the future of the club is bright. It has a declared aim of paying all Covid debt down a s.a.p. Clubs who took the loan have a 20 year debt on their books. Also it's a pretty open secret the club weren't budgeting for Saturday games to sell out this season.

TV will probably over egg where the club was to make better TV. It wasn't good but when you think the club has had the financial carnage of being evicted and then two consecutive abandoned seasons - so now four seasons since we had a reasonably forecastable financial income - it is to the huge credit of those running the club that the debt was only £130k.


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## Latahs (Dec 24, 2021)

and there's a decent team on the pitch - cup form excluded!


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## Christian Burt (Dec 24, 2021)

Cheers peeps 👍


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## EDC (Dec 25, 2021)

Latahs said:


> and there's a decent team on the pitch - cup form excluded!


Cup form had been an embarassment for as long as I can remember with the exception of a Trophy run.


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## PartisanDulwich (Dec 29, 2021)

Thought the documentary was much better than expected and highlighted the role of many volunteers (many unknown or who shun the spotlight). It also highlighted the pressure Ben Clasper as Chairman was under and the personal sacrifices he and his family had made - Peter Crouch in the first episode comes over as genuine, keen to help but unsure how best to achieve this - hopefully we will see more in future episodes

The Independent newspaper stated

_"Save Our Beautiful Game_ ended up being more than a portrait of a struggling football club, it was a plea for recognition and acknowledgement that what Dulwich and their peers do goes far beyond football. Could Crouch simply give them a couple of grand and solve all their worries? Probably, but that wouldn’t make for a very good TV show – which this was."


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## editor (Jan 3, 2022)

Saw there was a Paddy Power advert starring Peter Crouch on Channel 4 last night.


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## Humberto (Jan 3, 2022)

Nest of vipers


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## tonysingh (Jan 3, 2022)

editor said:


> Saw there was a Paddy Power advert starring Peter Crouch on Channel 4 last night.



You mustn't speak ill of our Lord and saviour, Sir Peter Crouch. That just wouldn't be the dhfc way now, would it?


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## Paula_G (Jan 13, 2022)

PartisanDulwich said:


> Thought the documentary was much better than expected and highlighted the role of many volunteers (many unknown or who shun the spotlight). It also highlighted the pressure Ben Clasper as Chairman was under and the personal sacrifices he and his family had made - Peter Crouch in the first episode comes over as genuine, keen to help but unsure how best to achieve this - hopefully we will see more in future episodes
> 
> The Independent newspaper stated
> 
> _"Save Our Beautiful Game_ ended up being more than a portrait of a struggling football club, it was a plea for recognition and acknowledgement that what Dulwich and their peers do goes far beyond football. Could Crouch simply give them a couple of grand and solve all their worries? Probably, but that wouldn’t make for a very good TV show – which this was."


From a personal perspective the documentary started off well but has very much slipped into a lot of football cliches. There are a lot of missed opportunities, very little if anything about the history of the club, scenes filmed at St Albans without mentioning affordability of tickets & the number of Hamlet fans who chose not to go to that game because of it and in the most recent episode more time was given to Hanwell Town than to the women‘s team. Sadly too three episodes in & not heard one mention of Mishi. Strangely the most recent episode ended with a note that the series will return at the end of the season! From my own point of view having backed this project from day one I really hope that this series comes off.


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## Stuart Fordyce (Jan 13, 2022)

I've not seen it yet (don't have Discovery), but one of the big issues affecting the non league game is last season's funding shambles. Have they touched on this at all?

It's one area Crouch with his profile could ask some questions of the FA...


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## Hamlet Pete (Jan 13, 2022)

A big thing was made at the start about the club having no money. No specifics were mentioned and I feel the National League and its bungled grant funding was let off the hook massively


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## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

The series is just a platform for 'club saving' Crouch and Discovery TV. They're not actually interested in the club at all: they're only interested in a 'good story' and ratings and that's going to dictate the story that's being told.

I'd like them to bring up the question that loads of fans have been asking for months and months, and that is how is Crouch's position as the paid face of a huge gambling company is compatible with his hugely divisive role on the board of a club that claims to be anti-gambling. I don't expect Discovery to be covering that either.


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## tonysingh (Jan 13, 2022)

There'd probably be no DHFC were it not for Mishi* so for him not to be featured yet is an egregious error. If that's not corrected in the final three programmes then it's an unforgivable insult to a man that embodied everything special about our club.

* yes I'm aware others have done their bit too. But without Mishis efforts the club wouldn't be here now, simple as that.


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## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

Can someone clarify that the club isn't actually getting paid by Discovery?


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## Paula_G (Jan 13, 2022)

There’s a reason documentaries tend to be popular as participants should only receive a nominal amount. I don’t expect this to be any different in this case.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 13, 2022)

Maybe it will help those tiny attendances to pick up though right?


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## Paula_G (Jan 13, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> There'd probably be no DHFC were it not for Mishi* so for him not to be featured yet is an egregious error. If that's not corrected in the final three programmes then it's an unforgivable insult to a man that embodied everything special about our club.
> 
> * yes I'm aware others have done their bit too. But without Mishis efforts the club wouldn't be here now, simple as that.


As I’ve said it’s early days yet and I expect things to change to embrace all those things that make Dulwich Hamlet special to people like me. The community work has been conspicuously absent , Gavin‘s youth only briefly touched on, the Aspire Academy also absent, the increasingly successful Womens team (which on Sunday pulled in a crowd greater than NLS Chelmsford) gets a briefer mention than Hanwell Town, the fact that this is one of most welcoming LGBTQI+ Clubs in football seems brushed over despite the fact Peter talked about this in the Express of all papers. As Abby Clancy asks in the first episode “What’s special about Dulwich Hamlet?” Hopefully that question will be answered by the end of the series otherwise  I for one will be seriously disappointed.


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## Paula_G (Jan 13, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Maybe it will help those tiny attendances to pick up though right?


There’s a reason clubs with smaller attendances do as well if not better than Dulwich Hamlet. Turnstile revenue is only part of the income needed to sustain the club long term. We don’t have the sort of wealthy backers or multiple income streams that others have. A lot of this is addressed in the early parts of the series.


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## Cyclodunc (Jan 13, 2022)

I remember at the screening evening a few people said that there had to be mishi in the series at some point. The director and producers were there and it’s a shame if they ignored those comments.


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## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

So I guess Crouch will never have to answer those questions that fans were told to send in, and it's beginning to look like an intentional strategy to keep them unanswered.


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## Paula_G (Jan 13, 2022)

Cyclodunc said:


> I remember at the screening evening a few people said that there had to be mishi in the series at some point. The director and producers were there and it’s a shame if they ignored those comments.


There were minor changes made to the first episode but the following episodes definitely lacked the real of this club. Hopefully that was because of the pressure to get these on line in time for a Christmas rather a failure to recognise the people and things that make this club more than just another Non League Club. With more episodes to come still hopeful this will be addressed…


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 14, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> There’s a reason clubs with smaller attendances do as well if not better than Dulwich Hamlet. Turnstile revenue is only part of the income needed to sustain the club long term. We don’t have the sort of wealthy backers or multiple income streams that others have. A lot of this is addressed in the early parts of the series.



Well, I think if the issue here is long term sustainability - ie the actual existence of the club - then the club need to communicate that rather than leaving it to you to argue with the likes of me on social media. If the point is more 'we need a bit more money to compete with whichever club has a bit more money than us' then that's not really the same as that argument will always apply up to the point you get bought out by petro-billionaires.


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## Paula_G (Jan 14, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Well, I think if the issue here is long term sustainability - ie the actual existence of the club - then the club need to communicate that rather than leaving it to you to argue with the likes of me on social media. If the point is more 'we need a bit more money to compete with whichever club has a bit more money than us' then that's not really the same as that argument will always apply up to the point you get bought out by petro-billionaires.


“Sustainability” is rather different to competing with better bankrolled clubs around us. This is about building a strong academy that not only turns out talented footballers but well-rounded individuals. It’s about promoting football for all, with Women’s football taking an equal footing to men’s. It’s about a club that is part of the community 7 days a week rather than from 3pm on Saturday afternoon until the lights go out at full time. This is about having facilities that the local community can access for a range of activities. This is about continuing to remain a safe and welcoming place for all..


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## Dirty South (Jan 18, 2022)

Have not gone in with high hopes of the documentary, but I'm really enjoying it. 

I don't expect it to highlight the great things about Dulwich Hamlet, that's not it's purpose. It's made to flog a few subscriptions for Discovery+. It's not going to break any new ground. It'll be in the format the channel and its viewers expect, which is quite limiting. But having said that, I'm enjoying seeing behind the scenes and appreciating some of the challenges I wasn't aware of. I think Gavin comes over very well and Crouch comes over as at least likeable and sincere. 

Also, I'm a sucker for drone footage of South London.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2022)




----------



## edcraw (Jan 22, 2022)

Dirty South said:


> Have not gone in with high hopes of the documentary, but I'm really enjoying it.
> 
> I don't expect it to highlight the great things about Dulwich Hamlet, that's not it's purpose. It's made to flog a few subscriptions for Discovery+. It's not going to break any new ground. It'll be in the format the channel and its viewers expect, which is quite limiting. But having said that, I'm enjoying seeing behind the scenes and appreciating some of the challenges I wasn't aware of. I think Gavin comes over very well and Crouch comes over as at least likeable and sincere.
> 
> Also, I'm a sucker for drone footage of South London.


Agree - think it’s doing good just shining a light on non-league. We don’t need to publicity but all publicity for non-league is great.

Non-league attendances seem to be going up a fair bit - Dorking must have brought a hundred or so on Tuesday night - and the more that get into seeing their loca club the better.


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## edcraw (Jan 22, 2022)

editor said:


> View attachment 306612
> 
> View attachment 306613


Obviously the juxtaposition is uncomfortable and the fact the club/Crouch aren’t answering these questions but has the club stopped this campaign?


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## blueheaven (Mar 7, 2022)

I can't read this as it's behind a paywall, but from the headline it sounds like this might be of interest: I’d love you, Peter Crouch, if only you’d bin the bookies


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## Paula_G (Mar 7, 2022)

blueheaven said:


> I can't read this as it's behind a paywall, but from the headline it sounds like this might be of interest: I’d love you, Peter Crouch, if only you’d bin the bookies


This website great for hopping over paywalls


			Welcome to nginx!


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## scousedom (Mar 16, 2022)

Won’t link to it but… just saw a new Crouch advert for his actual employers on the back of Cheltenham.

I gave the benefit of the doubt initially - to Ben and Tom et al, not to Crouch - because I thought he might have ended PP employment before starting at DHFC. This is now I think the second new advert he’s done while at the Club.

If he is being told to stop, he’s not listening. Why would he? He’s got what he wants.

I understand there’s more of the documentary series still to be filmed/shown and presumably the Club have a veto over allowing it. If so they are in a strong position to demand as a minimum condition of release a section (over which the Club has editorial control) where Crouch is confronted on this issue.

I would ask any Trust Board members reading this to demand that that is the case.


----------



## AveryDave (Mar 17, 2022)

scousedom said:


> Won’t link to it but… just saw a new Crouch advert for his actual employers on the back of Cheltenham.
> 
> I gave the benefit of the doubt initially - to Ben and Tom et al, not to Crouch - because I thought he might have ended PP employment before starting at DHFC. This is now I think the second new advert he’s done while at the Club.
> 
> ...


A prime issue where the ongoing silence and unwillingness to communicate honestly from the club to those raising concerns is causing ongoing and potentially long lasting damage.

There are a few reasons why I’m considering not renewing my season ticket next season, but this is the main one. As frustrating as it is sad.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2022)

It's fucking embarrassing. What drew me to Dulwich Hamlet was the fact that we were _different_ to other clubs. They were more inclusive, they took a stand on important issues, they listened to the fans and worked together for the local community.

And then they elect Peter Crouch - the current star of Paddy Power adverts - to the board for reasons they've never bothered to adequately explain to fans, and then effectively censor any questions from people concerned to find a high profile employee of a huge gambling company representing the club in the boardroom.  

And all this took place with zero consultation and after people like me were literally hoodwinked at a press launch that forgot to mention the fact that the gambling superstar was only here to further his career as a TV presenter and make a documentary (that no one was consulted about). 

Just look at this fucking pro-gambling shit from last week



> Peter Crouch is on the rampage after receiving a suspect betting tip on the upcoming Cheltenham Festival... now he’s after revenge on horseracing expert, Mark Chapman.
> 
> Paddy Power’s latest spoof-style advert is here, and features former England football player Crouch hunting down the so-called expert who has given him a bad tip on the ‘nap of the day.’











						Peter Crouch seeks revenge for “dodgy” Cheltenham tip in Paddy Power advert
					

Peter Crouch is on the rampage after receiving a suspect betting tip on the upcoming Cheltenham Festival... now he’s after revenge on horseracing expert,




					www.gamblinginsider.com


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2022)

And let's not forget how things were just five years ago.  Hypocrisy, much?



> Whilst we would not personally accept sponsorship from betting companies,





> However, we have also taken the opportunity to express our views on sponsorship from the gambling industry and reiterate our club position on this. As part of these discussions, it has been agreed that should the club gain financially from the sponsorship then it will donate that money to a charity that supports those with gambling addictions.











						Dulwich Hamlet FC takes a stand against the betting industry
					

Dulwich Hamlet has won many new friends (and a few enemies) on social media after publicly repeating their stance of not supporting the betting industry and not engaging commercially with betting c…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com
				




In response Helen Holmes said:



> Well done Dulwich Hamlet for sticking to their Club’s principles. So many organisations these days – whether large or small – say one thing publicly & then do the opposite privately.



Oops!


----------



## Don't Slow Down (Mar 17, 2022)

If the Supporters Trust have representation on the board, I believe 2 positions (Happy to be corrected) why were Trust Members not consulted on this comedy show that Crouch is doing. Surely that would have been the democratic approach!


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## NPDHFC (Mar 17, 2022)

Does there need to be some sort of visible anti Crouch protest started at home games for the rest of the season?


----------



## scousedom (Mar 18, 2022)

NPDHFC said:


> Does there need to be some sort of visible anti Crouch protest started at home games for the rest of the season?


Banner? What did you have in mind…?


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## editor (Mar 18, 2022)

NPDHFC said:


> Does there need to be some sort of visible anti Crouch protest started at home games for the rest of the season?


This might get me back to the home games! Might piss off some of the tourists too. Good.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 18, 2022)

editor said:


> This might get me back to the home games! Might piss off some of the tourists too. Good.



Be nice if we could incorporate an anti gambling charity into this.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Be nice if we could incorporate an anti gambling charity into this.


That, to me, would be the most 'Hamlet like' thing to happen on the terraces for a long time.

Anyway, I'm in if people are getting involved. Happy to promote it on Brixton Buzz/social media. Let's get this pro-gambling employee of Paddy Power out of Champion Hill!


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 18, 2022)

editor said:


> That, to me, would be the most 'Hamlet like' thing to happen on the terraces for a long time.
> 
> Anyway, I'm in if people are getting involved. Happy to promote it on Brixton Buzz/social media. Let's get this pro-gambling employee of Paddy Power out of Champion Hill!



If we twinned the banner unveiling with a bucket collection for a gambling addiction charity then thatd go a long way to salve the wound on our conscience.  


Just a suggestion like.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> If we twinned the banner unveiling with a bucket collection for a gambling addiction charity then thatd go a long way to salve the wound on our conscience.
> 
> 
> Just a suggestion like.


Sounds great to me. 

How well do you think that suggestion might go down in the Discord site?  I don't post there but perhaps someone can see if there's any enthusiasm for fans taking a positive stand against the promotion of gambling...


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## tonysingh (Mar 18, 2022)

editor said:


> Sounds great to me.
> 
> How well do you think that suggestion might go down in the Discord site?  I don't post there but perhaps someone can see if there's any enthusiasm for fans taking a positive stand against the promotion of gambling...



I've never joined the Discord page long enough to find out. Every time i do, i get booted. It's enough to tickle my paranoia.


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## scousedom (Mar 18, 2022)

editor said:


> That, to me, would be the most 'Hamlet like' thing to happen on the terraces for a long time.
> 
> Anyway, I'm in if people are getting involved. Happy to promote it on Brixton Buzz/social media. Let's get this pro-gambling employee of Paddy Power out of Champion Hill!


Paraphrasing your post… "PaddyPower Pete: get out of our Club"
That's the banner text sorted!


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## Cyclodunc (Mar 19, 2022)

I just had a look on discord. It’s not exactly awash with chat


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## Cat Daisy (Mar 19, 2022)

scousedom said:


> Paraphrasing your post… "PaddyPower Pete: get out of our Club"
> That's the banner text sorted!


Happy to chip in for some matching stickers - from the money saved by not getting a s/t next season.


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## editor (Mar 19, 2022)

The truth is, if this had happened at any other club I would have written a damning piece slamming into their hypocrisy months ago, but I've only held back because I care about Hamlet.

But seeing as the club don't seem to care much about what their fans think on this important issue - and questions to Crouch have gone unanswered months after they were asked - maybe it's time to get more proactive and let more people know.

Does anyone fancy writing a piece about all this for Brixton Buzz?


----------



## EDC (Mar 19, 2022)

Cyclodunc said:


> I just had a look on discord. It’s not exactly awash with chat


Forgotten all about it tbh.  Shouldn’t be a thing anyway.


----------



## pompeydunc (Mar 24, 2022)

Don't Slow Down said:


> If the Supporters Trust have representation on the board, I believe 2 positions (Happy to be corrected) why were Trust Members not consulted on this comedy show that Crouch is doing. Surely that would have been the democratic approach!



This was asked at the last AGM. The Directors were consulted, but chose not to consult members citing other priorities.


----------



## editor (Mar 31, 2022)

'Let's kick gambling ads out of football' says the billboard at Champion Hill.

#embarassing


----------



## Cyclodunc (Apr 1, 2022)




----------



## AveryDave (Apr 1, 2022)

It's beyond embarrassing now. The club are getting called out for hypocrisy in the press and on social media, and the continued and entirely wilful silence in response to invited and reasonable questions suggests they know exactly what they're doing but don't want to own up to it.

Which brings into question the integrity of those running the club and whether or not they can be trusted on anything they do choose to speak out on - if they're willing to tolerate such blatant double standards in one matter, what's to say they aren't operating the same way on others?

And the thing is, I'm sure that's not the case - which makes it all the more frustrating that they're letting this one, key issue, colour and potentially damage so much else.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2022)




----------



## AveryDave (Apr 1, 2022)




----------



## Don't Slow Down (Apr 1, 2022)

What will probably happen is the club stay silent, Crouch finishes his nice well paid Discovery programme and then resigns as a Director........


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2022)

Don't Slow Down said:


> What will probably happen is the club stay silent, Crouch finishes his nice well paid Discovery programme and then resigns as a Director........


And who cares about the long term fans who have been prompted to scale back/abandon their support for the club?!


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 1, 2022)

editor said:


> And who cares about the long term fans who have been prompted to scale back/abandon their support for the club?!




Brave new world, brave new DHFC. Long term fans aren't quite as important


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Apr 1, 2022)

Don't Slow Down said:


> What will probably happen is the club stay silent, Crouch finishes his nice well paid Discovery programme and then resigns as a Director........


Yeah, I doubt he'll stick around once the filming is done. Are they still doing it?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 1, 2022)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Yeah, I doubt he'll stick around once the filming is done.


Well I wouldn't put money on it


----------



## gnar182 (Apr 1, 2022)

I'm not  part of the anti gambling group/brigade but I agree that the clubs avoidance of addressing the issue is odd given their anti gambling  stance and Pete's partnership with Paddy Power. 

Very suspect how they had to cancel the Q&A with him on discord when all the questions were surrounding that topic. Funny how we were told it would be rearranged but are stil waiting???

YTC


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2022)

gnar182 said:


> I'm not  part of the anti gambling group/brigade but I agree that the clubs avoidance of addressing the issue is odd given their anti gambling  stance and Pete's partnership with Paddy Power.
> 
> Very suspect how they had to cancel the Q&A with him on discord when all the questions were surrounding that topic. Funny how we were told it would be rearranged but are stil waiting???
> 
> YTC


It's bullshit and no one at the club seems to care and/or know about the long term damage it's creating.


----------



## scousedom (Apr 5, 2022)

Party’s over for Paddy Power Pete. 









						UK to ban gambling ads featuring sports and reality TV stars
					

Changes designed to protect under-18s and other vulnerable groups come into effect in October




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## scousedom (Apr 5, 2022)

Devil in the detail as always. I assume they will all instruct lawyers and market researchers to prove they don’t have “a significant fanbase of under-18s” which presumably would allow them to carry on. 
Qatar 2022 betting ads to be brought to you by John Motson, Des Lynam and David Coleman.


----------



## editor (Apr 5, 2022)

scousedom said:


> Party’s over for Paddy Power Pete.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahaha. Fuck you Crouch.

Although he'll probably wriggle out of the ban, arguing that he hasn't played for years and has a more adult fanbase. I hope he's screwed though.



> Under the current rules, an advert is banned only if it is likely to appeal more to an under-18 than to an adult. Under the new rules, an ad will be banned if it is “likely to be of strong appeal to children or young persons, especially by reflecting or being associated with youth culture”, regardless of how it may be viewed by adults.


----------



## editor (Apr 11, 2022)

I see he's still doing his bit  for gambling and Paddy Power



> Boyle Sport and Paddy Power are amongst the Irish bookmakers which launched OOH campaigns for the much-anticipated Cheltenham festival.  Boyle Sports launched a highly visible Digital OOH (DOOH) campaign to woo punters with its ‘money-back’ offers and grow its share of the betting market at one of the busiest times of the year for bookmakers. Paddy Power dominated Dublin airport with an array of ads featuring Colm Meaney, Ruby Walsh and Peter Crouch.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He told Paddy Power’s From the Horses Mouth podcast : “The dressing room is underneath the stadium and there are tiers upon tiers of fans and you can hear them. I’m sat in the dressing room with a towel over my head, hearing goal after goal after goal going in and I’m thinking: ‘that’s down to me’. That was a low point and a big regret."


> Crouch "wanted to punch" Real Madrid's Marcelo after early red card celebrations
> 
> 
> Tottenham's Champions League dream was left in tatters back in 2011 as Real Madrid beat them 4-0 in the Spanish capital with Peter Crouch's early red card proving crucial
> ...











						Peter Crouch and Matt Champan star in brillant new advert for Paddy Power | The Irish Post
					

PETER CROUCH is out for revenge in Paddy Power’s latest viral video after the former footballer r...




					www.irishpost.com


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 11, 2022)

I'm with you on this, but Cheltenham was two months ago.


----------



## editor (Apr 11, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> I'm with you on this, but Cheltenham was two months ago.


The article is a only a month old and the others are more recent. Every fucking shitty thing he does to promote gambling is a blow to Hamlet's dwindling credibility as a club that stands against the gambling industry.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2022)

Here's an article I wish I didn't have to write:









						Opinion: Dulwich Hamlet, Peter Crouch, gambling and hypocrisy
					

As long standing Dulwich Hamlet fans, this isn’t an article we wanted to write, but it’s something we can’t keep quiet about any longer. Along with many other fans, what attracted…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## Effra Eyes (Apr 27, 2022)

Respect your opinions on this editor, some I agree with, some I don't. But tone of this feels a bit off to me, you've cherry-picked comments from this thread that support your view, fair enough, but this coupled with using 'we' and 'us' makes it look like you are speaking on behalf of the entire fanbase on this, and you aren't.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2022)

Effra Eyes said:


> Respect your opinions on this -, some I agree with, some I don't. But tone of this feels a bit off to me, you've cherry-picked comments from this thread that support your view, fair enough, but this coupled with using 'we' and 'us' makes it look like you are speaking on behalf of the entire fanbase on this, and you aren't.


I was quite careful to use phrases like "along with many other fans"  rather than "this is what all fans think," so I think I've been fair. And the 'us' is meant to be Brixton Buzz (all our articles are written this way).

And if it sounds like I'm angry and frustrated, well that's because I am.

Edit to add: and the article clearly says "opinion."   I was careful to highlight that.


----------



## Effra Eyes (Apr 27, 2022)

Out of interest, did you write a similar piece when the team were running around with estate agents names on their shirts? Or breweries for that matter.

Personally, I want gambling adverts banned, and think it will happen sooner rather than later. But the idea that the club's commercial activities were whiter than white before Crouch turned up is nonsense.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2022)

Effra Eyes said:


> Out of interest, did you write a similar piece when the team were running around with estate agents names on their shirts? Or breweries for that matter.
> .



How do you think this kind of belittling whataboutery is going to help? The team may have been 'running around with estate agents' in the past but they weren't inviting them onto the board and letting them head up TV documentaries about the club while making public statements saying that they actually opposed them.

Can you really not see the difference?


----------



## Effra Eyes (Apr 27, 2022)

It's not 'belittling whataboutery' - it's asking genuine questions in response to your article. I didn't insult you, just offered a different opinion. As you can't engage in constructive conversation with anyone who doesn't subscribe to your view, there is little point in continuing this.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2022)

Effra Eyes said:


> It's not 'belittling whataboutery' - it's asking genuine questions in response to your article. I didn't insult you, just offered a different opinion. As you can't engage in constructive conversation with anyone who doesn't subscribe to your view, there is little point in continuing this.



I'm sorry if you take it that way, but that article took me a very long time to write, and you responding with, '_ah yes, but then why didn't you write about this or that in the past_' is a classic way of trying to undermine the piece.

But can you really, REALLY not see the difference between a regular club sponsor and Crouch's involvement and his pro-gambling employment?


----------



## Effra Eyes (Apr 27, 2022)

It's not an attempt to undermine it at all, I literally started my reply with 'I respect your opinions on this', it was my response to it. I don't think it's helpful to continue this on here as nuance gets lost on the internet. But I'm going along tonight and am happy to discuss in the flesh.


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 27, 2022)

I am completely and utterly opposed to Crouchs involvement with the club at any level because of his ties to gambling. The fact he played a few games for us is irrelevant. The whole affair reeks of misjudgement and has driven a wedge between some fans, the exchange above is a good example of this. 

It does also tie into a wider malaise at the club that has driven away a few fans, myself included. I fully recognise that we don't matter though given we're replaced by newer fans. That's fine, that's progress and if the newer lot guarantee the future of the club through their attendance then great. 

But it feels like we've sold our soul for progress on and off the pitch. This cult of celebrity pish that surrounded Crouch our Saviour, home games being unpleasant,  arguments and offline,  fans jockeying for status....its not just one thing at the moment is it? We can't point at this Crouch farrago and pretend all else is golden. 

As @Effra_eyes states, we've accepted money from estate agents and alcohol brewers. Gambling is a pernicious evil indeed  but equally so is alcohol. Yet a huge  part of the club culture revolves around beer. We can't say we're only principled on one thing imho. We have to be against all things that cause (chiefly working class) people harm or we accept that we're going to have to hold our noses in regard commercial stuff though perhaps a smidge of consultation from the club might be a good way to bridge the gap.


----------



## AveryDave (Apr 27, 2022)

I think that's a very even handed piece in the circumstances - and I'd hazard a guess that it took a great deal of drafting and restraint to maintain that tone in the face of the frustrating silence offered by the club to six months of valid questions.

And rather than question why similar pieces on other matters haven't been written in the past, perhaps it would be better to consider that if the club had been willing to address the issue then maybe the piece wouldn't be needed at all?

I'm gutted that I can't get to the Fan Forum tonight, but really hope this is addressed appropriately (I've sent in questions about it), and that this can be the start of the club communicating with the supporters again.


----------



## Taper (Apr 27, 2022)

I'm not really sure what the involvement of Peter Crouch in the club has achieved. Perhaps it will become clearer.  He might come into his own if we need to recruit a new manager in the summer.  I quite like him.  Seems to be a decent man.  But the gambling association does no one any credit..


----------



## festa (Apr 27, 2022)

Effra Eyes said:


> with estate agents names on their shirts?


We got in the evening standard complaining about that! I imagine editor did make a point at the time. 


Taper said:


> I'm not really sure what the involvement of Peter Crouch in the club has achieved.


Embarrassment.


----------



## Cat Daisy (Apr 27, 2022)

I sent in a bunch of questions about his involvement (& other stuff) for the forum. 
Something along the lines of:
Why was he announced as a director when it later turned out he was a director of football? 
Assuming he is DoF, what are his achievements this season and what is his working relationship with Gavin Rose?


----------



## darryl (Apr 27, 2022)

Cat Daisy said:


> I sent in a bunch of questions about his involvement (& other stuff) for the forum.
> Something along the lines of:
> Why was he announced as a director when it later turned out he was a director of football?
> Assuming he is DoF, what are his achievements this season and what is his working relationship with Gavin Rose?



This is the baffling one - why did they do that? They’re completely different roles.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Apr 27, 2022)

darryl said:


> This is the baffling one - why did they do that? They’re completely different roles.



I'd guess the TV people thought it made a better narrative for him to be in a football related role.


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## Cyclodunc (Apr 27, 2022)

Good of you to lead with a paddy power advert


----------



## Cat Daisy (Apr 27, 2022)

Cyclodunc said:


> Good of you to lead with a paddy power advert


There was one of those too


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## Cyclodunc (Apr 28, 2022)

I mean the article on brixton buzz. Main image. Paddy power advert


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## festa (Apr 28, 2022)

Cyclodunc said:


> I mean the article on brixton buzz. Main image. Paddy power advert


Yep good to show it front and center how ridiculously hypocritical it all is... We, with the documentary are boosting crouch's celebrity, which in turn boosts paddy powers credibility with him as an ambassador... while saying we are against gambling advertising, it's bonkers!


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## editor (Apr 28, 2022)

So despite the club publicly welcoming Crouch 'to the board of Dulwich Hamlet' in June 2021, it seems that he's not actually a board member at all!



> That might have been their plan at the time, but according to Companies House records, it hasn’t happened. Dulwich Hamlet’s current and former board members can be seen at: DULWICH HAMLET FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED people - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
> 
> Peter Crouch’s appointments can be seen at: Peter CROUCH personal appointments - Find and update company information - GOV.UK


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## GOP (Apr 28, 2022)

Was Peter Crouch in attendance at the Fan Forum last night and were questions asked of his role/relationship with the gambling industry?


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## scousedom (Apr 28, 2022)

GOP said:


> Was Peter Crouch in attendance at the Fan Forum last night and were questions asked of his role/relationship with the gambling industry?


He was doing the Liverpool game in a bad suit.


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## surreybrowncap (Apr 28, 2022)

scousedom said:


> He was doing the Liverpool game in a bad suit.


Old habits....


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## GOP (Apr 29, 2022)

scousedom said:


> He was doing the Liverpool game in a bad suit.


So no one asked about the situation with documentary and uncomfortable links with the gambling industry?


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## scousedom (Apr 29, 2022)

GOP said:


> So no one asked about the situation with documentary and uncomfortable links with the gambling industry?


I don’t know I wasn’t there.


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## editor (Apr 29, 2022)

GOP said:


> So no one asked about the situation with documentary and uncomfortable links with the gambling industry?


I think it seems pretty obvious after six months of waiting that neither Crouch is going to trouble himself to answer or Hamlet's Director of Media and Communication can be bothered to pursue the matter, despite the repeated wishes of many fans.

The message is clear: the club doesn't give a fuck what we think about the matter and Lord Crouch of Hamlet must be spared any embarrassment.


----------



## blueheaven (Apr 29, 2022)

GOP said:


> So no one asked about the situation with documentary and uncomfortable links with the gambling industry?



It was discussed on the night, yes. There was a whole section devoted to answering questions submitted about Crouch's role, whether he'd be staying beyond this season and the club's stance on the gambling issue.


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## editor (Apr 29, 2022)

blueheaven said:


> It was discussed on the night, yes. There was a whole section devoted to answering questions submitted about Crouch's role, whether he'd be staying beyond this season and the club's stance on the gambling issue.


So what was the outcome of this discussion?


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## mick mccartney (May 1, 2022)

well , Mr. Editor , it would seem that everyone present was sworn to secrecy on this subject


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## Nivag (May 1, 2022)

It would have been a great opportunity for someone to ask the questions they'd wanted if they had turned up.


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## blueheaven (May 2, 2022)

editor said:


> So what was the outcome of this discussion?



Sorry for the slow response, I've only just seen this. I'm a bit reluctant to paraphrase as I don't want to put words in other people's mouths, but I believe the general gist was that the club shared the concern about the gambling issue but on balance decided that they felt it wasn't necessarily a bad thing to have access to someone on the other side of the debate. They stressed that they'd been looking for someone for a while who has football experience to fill a role at the club, and that Crouch ticked the boxes. They said no decision has been made yet on whether or not Crouch will remain at the club next season.

I'm not sure if there are minutes from the event or a replay available of the video, but I think if you want the club's own words from the night you'd have to seek those things out.


----------



## J-C-T (May 2, 2022)

blueheaven said:


> They stressed that they'd been looking for someone for a while who has football experience to fill a role at the club, and that Crouch ticked the boxes.



Apologies if this has covered, but has Crouch's actual role at the club ever been clarified? My understanding is that he is a Director/Director of Football (I've seen him described as both) but I don't have any idea what that actually involves. Has the club ever made this clear?


----------



## Effra Eyes (May 2, 2022)

blueheaven said:


> Sorry for the slow response, I've only just seen this. I'm a bit reluctant to paraphrase as I don't want to put words in other people's mouths, but I believe the general gist was that the club shared the concern about the gambling issue but on balance decided that they felt it wasn't necessarily a bad thing to have access to someone on the other side of the debate. They stressed that they'd been looking for someone for a while who has football experience to fill a role at the club, and that Crouch ticked the boxes. They said no decision has been made yet on whether or not Crouch will remain at the club next season.
> 
> I'm not sure if there are minutes from the event or a replay available of the video, but I think if you want the club's own words from the night you'd have to seek those things out.


It was on Zoom as well, there is an option to record the Zoom so I wonder if they did and would make it available to those who weren't able to attend. Like Blueheaven, I'm a bit reluctant to paraphrase what others said - not least cos I'd had a few pints of lovely Peckham Pale - but it was covered in depth during the main part of the evening and returned to in the Q&A at the end.


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## liamdhfc (May 2, 2022)

J-C-T said:


> Apologies if this has covered, but has Crouch's actual role at the club ever been clarified? My understanding is that he is a Director/Director of Football (I've seen him described as both) but I don't have any idea what that actually involves. Has the club ever made this clear?


As I’ve said before on this forum and numerous times to people in person, Peter Crouch is not and has never been a Director of Dulwich Hamlet Football Club Limited. He is tasked with delivering reports for the board on the way other clubs are run and what we will ideally need to do with a new stadium and to increase non match day income. As mentioned Ben felt on balance it better to try to reform by engagement and took the same approach with the fan led review where Peter’s involvement has seen us gain significant influence.
He has also willingly promoted the Transgender match and the Shelter shirt which brought publicity we may not have got without him and helped raise money on both occasions.


----------



## AveryDave (May 2, 2022)

Nivag said:


> It would have been a great opportunity for someone to ask the questions they'd wanted if they had turned up.


It would have been great if the club could have given more advance notice of the event - I couldn't rearrange work commitments, and I'm sure others would have been in the same boat of having commitments they couldn't change.



blueheaven said:


> I'm not sure if there are minutes from the event or a replay available of the video, but I think if you want the club's own words from the night you'd have to seek those things out.


I emailed Ben Clasper in advance asking if the Zoom could be recorded and made available after the event for those who couldn't attend - haven't received any response.


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## B.I.G (May 2, 2022)

AveryDave said:


> It would have been great if the club could have given more advance notice of the event - I couldn't rearrange work commitments, and I'm sure others would have been in the same boat of having commitments they couldn't change.
> 
> 
> I emailed Ben Clasper in advance asking if the Zoom could be recorded and made available after the event for those who couldn't attend - haven't received any response.



Anyone that has been to a meeting with management knows they tend to be PR exercises. 

And the actual ability for the bosses to take on feedback and change their goals and path close to non-existent. 

Less a fans’ forum and more a let management explain why they know best.


----------



## liamdhfc (May 2, 2022)

B.I.G said:


> Anyone that has been to a meeting with management knows they tend to be PR exercises.
> 
> And the actual ability for the bosses to take on feedback and change their goals and path close to non-existent.
> 
> Less a fans’ forum and more a let management explain why they know best.


Seriously B.I.G that’s just ridiculous. They were very open & honest about things. They have done amazing things to keep the club in business. No Board is perfect and they want nothing more than fans to enjoy coming to the club. They were happy to discuss anything fans brought up, after all they are all fans.  Did you ask questions that weren’t answered? Is there anything you’d like to ask them? Do you have any ideas to put forward as I know they’re always looking for new things to improve the club?


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## B.I.G (May 2, 2022)

liamdhfc said:


> Seriously B.I.G that’s just ridiculous. They were very open & honest about things. They have done amazing things to keep the club in business. No Board is perfect and they want nothing more than fans to enjoy coming to the club. They were happy to discuss anything fans brought up, after all they are all fans.  Did you ask questions that weren’t answered? Is there anything you’d like to ask them? Do you have any ideas to put forward as I know they’re always looking for new things to improve the club?



I didn’t go to the meeting. 

If they want to improve things for themselves and for the club, they should ask themselves:

What have we changed our mind on as a result of this fans’ forum?

I suspect the answer is nothing and therein lies the usefulness of that meeting.

Do you liamdhfc think they will have changed their mind on anything as a result of this fans’ forum and if so on what?


----------



## liamdhfc (May 2, 2022)

B.I.G said:


> I didn’t go to the meeting.
> 
> If they want to improve things for themselves and for the club, they should ask themselves:
> 
> ...


I think you’ll find they acknowledged and shared a number of concerns that fans shared with them. It’s the easy option not to engage when you could easily get answers by speaking to the board. I’ll broker a chat if you want.


----------



## festa (May 6, 2022)

Exclusive: Peter Crouch reflects on Dulwich Hamlet's season - and the challenges of his role - Southwark News
					

The former Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur and England striker joined the Hamlet board this season




					www.southwarknews.co.uk


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

festa said:


> Exclusive: Peter Crouch reflects on Dulwich Hamlet's season - and the challenges of his role - Southwark News
> 
> 
> The former Liverpool, Tottenham Hotspur and England striker joined the Hamlet board this season
> ...


Ah, so he's a "non-official member of the club’s board," whatever that is.


----------



## NPDHFC (May 6, 2022)

A certain alpine lawyer would surely tell us that this is in violation of the company’s articles of association and should result in everyone involved being loaded onto a rocket and jettisoned into the sun.


----------



## liamdhfc (May 8, 2022)

Certainly not against the Articles to co-opt people, by in this case he’s not co-opted. I have already stated his role.


----------



## gnar182 (May 8, 2022)

So, a season later can anyone tell us how he's improved the club then? Atleast Billericay got a banging mural when they sold their soul.


----------



## tonysingh (May 8, 2022)

gnar182 said:


> So, a season later can anyone tell us how he's improved the club then? Atleast Billericay got a banging mural when they sold their soul.



Some supporters got their photo taken with a real life celebrity innit.


----------



## Al Cunningham (Jun 27, 2022)

Enjoyed number 4 in the Discovery series released today . Primarily about the women's team and Bury FC


----------



## jonesyboyo (Jul 1, 2022)

Enjoyed the episode, and like the big fella.

So... has he presented his season evaluation /recommendations as yet, as mentioned he would at the fans forum?


----------



## editor (Jul 3, 2022)

jonesyboyo said:


> Enjoyed the episode, and like the big fella.
> 
> So... has he presented his season evaluation /recommendations as yet, as mentioned he would at the fans forum?


We're certainly still waiting for his answers to the questions fans posed on the official  forum some six months ago.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 3, 2022)

How many episodes of this are left?


----------



## Al Cunningham (Jul 5, 2022)

Just watched episode 5 . Very interesting mainly about sponsorship which shows the hard work particularly from Clare Keeble and good contribution from Crouch. Also with hint of episide 6 appears to show the new sponsor on front of shirt for next season. Dont think the club have announced that yet .


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 5, 2022)

Al Cunningham said:


> Just watched episode 5 . Very interesting mainly about sponsorship which shows the hard work particularly from Clare Keeble and good contribution from Crouch. Also with hint of episide 6 appears to show the new sponsor on front of shirt for next season. Dont think the club have announced that yet .



Love Clare.


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## tonysingh (Jul 5, 2022)

Al Cunningham said:


> Just watched episode 5 . Very interesting mainly about sponsorship which shows the hard work particularly from Clare Keeble and good contribution from Crouch. Also with hint of episide 6 appears to show the new sponsor on front of shirt for next season. Dont think the club have announced that yet .



Don't keep us in suspenders FFS. Who is the new sponsor?    episode 6 is the final one I think? Has there been mention of Mishi yet?


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## Al Cunningham (Jul 6, 2022)

8 episodes. Very little on the mens team lately. Last action shown brief highlights of Ebbsfleet 5-2 win. We should all be grateful for Clare Keeble who seems to do the work of many people. Well as it is in the public domain The hint appeared to show " Defected" being designed on the front of the shirt. But not shown in any context of when this was happening as the series seems to switch berween times during the season


----------



## Al Cunningham (Jul 12, 2022)

Episode 6 is very good . Mostly centred on the TRUK game and search for training ground. Really displays the dedication and passion of Ben, Paula and Clare and Peter Crouch, who really appears to putting his all into helping the club. Great credit to them all  and also showing what a great club we have


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## Paula_G (Aug 5, 2022)

Al Cunningham said:


> Episode 6 is very good . Mostly centred on the TRUK game and search for training ground. Really displays the dedication and passion of Ben, Paula and Clare and Peter Crouch, who really appears to putting his all into helping the club. Great credit to them all  and also showing what a great club we have


Quite emotional watching that and pretty special to hear things said about myself on camera that I’ve rarely heard said to myself in 30+ years at the club.


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## Paula_G (Aug 5, 2022)

I wrote this on Discord recently after watching the Trans Day of Visibility game episode and a couple of subsequent ones though not the last. Copying and pasting before that medium croaks its last.

Its a bit all over the place in terms of continuity viz Sanchez Ming talking about his injury which he’d sustained in preseason at Carshalton as if it happened in the run in. And sticking with comedy double act of Tricky & Dom Reid is seriously 😖! Having two cis men saying how wonderful the TDOV match was when I don’t recall either of them being at the game. That said I thought Danny was wonderful. From a personal point of view there were a lot of the parts of my “journey” left on the cutting floor but hearing compliments from Peter, Ben and Sophie on there that I’ve not heard from too many people in 30+ years with Dulwich Hamlet was incredibly emotional. Quite fun  too and affirming as well as I definitely seem to get younger as the programme progresses. Plus that comment from Abbie Clancy gets me giggling 🤭 every time I view it. It’s good to see we’re moving on to attainable goals such as a training ground , an academy and Save Grassroots Football not pie in the sky 💩 like “Rock’n’’Roll Football” 🤦🏻‍♀️ . That was frankly f🤬king embarrassing! If there is to be a second series than it has to move away from the boardroom and start focusing on real fans & not just Dulwich but across grassroots, the game played by men, women and everyone else


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## Paula_G (Aug 5, 2022)

Written prior to the final episode which I have not yet had the chance to watch.

Being involved with Dulwich Hamlet on so many levels for so long it seems strange to watch a series that has never touched on our illustrious history, the decline and fall of the club before the revival under Gavin that probably kept us from vanishing into county football, that has failed to mention the Save Dulwich Hamlet campaign, that to my mind doesn’t seem to have criticised Meadow once (I may be wrong on that so please correct me if that is not the case), has never involved the Trust and has still not mentioned two of the most significant names of recent years, Mishi and Duncan. Yes there are times when it actually shows the viewer why “Dulwich Hamlet is different to any club I’ve known” (Peter’s words not mine) but a lot of the time this could be at any lower league or non league club.


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## scousedom (Aug 5, 2022)

Genuine question because I have never watched one, but… has any fly-on-the-wall football club documentary series ever been backward looking? In the slightest? Are they not all “right here right now”? Assuming so, was any production team ever going to make something going over the history of a Club that while interesting to those involved would not be to outsiders? Would they want to make a show about people they couldn’t interview?

I’m not saying that’s right by the way. The opposite in fact. Just that that’s how the production teams would think. This was never going to be an authoritative history of the club, which Crouch wasn’t involved in, it was always going to be centred on Crouch and therefore resolutely set in the (apparently made up at times) present.


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## Paula_G (Aug 5, 2022)

Given the documentary is talking about the various pressures on the club that force us into the situation we find ourselves in, it’s worth giving at least some background to that. It’s not just because of the pandemic that Dulwich find themselves apparently struggling but because of a range of factors that include the behaviour of Meadow Residential who are still our landlords. This was sold as more than just a “fly on the wall” documentary but the opportunity to get across the Dulwich ethos to a wider audience. In some areas yes it has succeeded but in others there have been a plethora of missed opportunities. Whether this is down to a number of individuals who were not keen to be involved, especially the Trust who I don’t believe featured at all except as non-speaking extras, that may well be the case. That said I can think of a number of individuals who were keen to be involved yet were never spoken too.


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## editor (Aug 5, 2022)

I don't know why anyone expected it to be any different. It was all about the pre-written Discovery template of 'football survival' and celeb presenter Crouch and they could have picked any club at our level.

They only picked Hamlet because we're seen as an eye catching trendy outfit, and shamefully the club were quite happy to evaporate some important principles in exchange. 
: Dulwich Hamlet FC takes a stand against the betting industry


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## Roger D (Aug 6, 2022)

I still haven't watched this series. However; I seem to remember it was marketed as Peter trying to save a non league club. Whilst not exactly factually accurate, the club would have made it through last season without the cameras, that angle surely meant they couldn't talk too much about the past. Peter couldn't save a club that Mishi, Duncan and others had already saved...


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## editor (Aug 10, 2022)

I see Crouch is still being used as the brand ambassador for Paddy Power this season. 

"Hi I'm going to pretend to join Dulwich Hamlet's board and do a lucrative, profile raising TV show for a pay-to-view channel"
"But hasn't the club come out strongly against the advertising of gambling services?"
"No problem for me! I'll just keep on doing what I like and let the fans worry about it"
"Double G&Ts all round!"


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## Paula_G (Aug 12, 2022)

The documentary will be available on the Free To Air Quest (Freeview 12) from September. Given that it was originally planned as a major draw to push the Discovery+ app I’m not sure what exactly this implies. However this should allow anyone averse to paying for the app the opportunity to view & critique it here. Whether the club will publicise it then, which it does not seem keen to at the moment, we’ll have to wait and see.


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## tonysingh (Aug 12, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> The documentary will be available on the Free To Air Quest (Freeview 12) from September. Given that it was originally planned as a major draw to push the Discovery+ app I’m not sure what exactly this implies. However this should allow anyone averse to paying for the app the opportunity to view & critique it here. Whether the club will publicise it then, which it does not seem keen to at the moment, we’ll have to wait and see.



Wonderful. 

A whole new, wider audience to laugh at us.


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## editor (Aug 15, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> The documentary will be available on the Free To Air Quest (Freeview 12) from September. Given that it was originally planned as a major draw to push the Discovery+ app I’m not sure what exactly this implies. However this should allow anyone averse to paying for the app the opportunity to view & critique it here. Whether the club will publicise it then, which it does not seem keen to at the moment, we’ll have to wait and see.


I wonder how many long term fans the club has lost by its association with this venture, starting from the dishonest announcement of Crouch's arrival at the club - and, in hindsight, whether it was worth it, especially as we apparently weren't paid anything for accommodating the TV crews.


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## Paula_G (Aug 15, 2022)

Doubt whether we’ve actually lost any long term fans because of the documentary as I genuinely wonder how many Dulwich fans have actually seen it due to the club’s seeming reluctance to publicise the documentary. It’s barely been mentioned on the club’s social media channels or publicised through any other media. Whether this is down to previous erratic communications strategy by the club or a reluctance to acknowledge the documentary’s existence is another matter. I’ve actually had more people outside DHFC talk to me of this than within the club including a nurse at my TransPlus clinic referencing the episode where the Transgender Day of Visibility match featured.


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## AveryDave (Aug 19, 2022)

editor said:


> I wonder how many long term fans the club has lost by its association with this venture, starting from the dishonest announcement of Crouch's arrival at the club - and, in hindsight, whether it was worth it, especially as we apparently weren't paid anything for accommodating the TV crews.


Can't say I've ever kept much of an eye on match day sponsorship over the seasons, but record numbers of people through the gate whilst no-one wants to sponsor the match or the ball seems a bit weird? The club are still looking for sponsors for tomorrow and were in a similar position for the Braintree game, with the Dulwich Diverter stepping into the breach a few days before.

Absolutely nothing to back this up beyond connecting those potentially random dots, but could it be that a smaller number of long term fans who were willing to invest in the club have been replaced with a larger number of newer fans who are happy to pay for their ticket but not really interested in contributing anything more than that?

And a similar story with the 12th Man Scheme, where a once crucial contributor to the club's playing budget has been deemed less important in recent seasons, likely offset by the increase in attendance revenue?

Even if any of that is the case, the revenue associated to the sponsorships would soon get overtaken by hundreds more through the gate, so if it's a choice between the two it's probably pretty easy for the club to prioritise.


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## Roger D (Aug 19, 2022)

I'm sure the club would be happy to have 12th Man running still. My understanding is it is effectively in hibernation due to a lack of volunteers to run it, not due to the club. Obviously wages are a bit higher now than when it was established, it would make less of a difference now realistically as the same amount of money would go nowhere near as far.

I suspect the drop off in fans sponsoring match balls etc may be due to a rise in price as much as anything else. Back in my day it was often done by one person, these days pictures usually show a group of people. Throw in a cost of living crisis that is about to bite with a vengeance, new energy cap details due next week, and it's perhaps not surprising selling sponsorship is now more challenging.


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## editor (Aug 19, 2022)

Roger D said:


> I'm sure the club would be happy to have 12th Man running still. My understanding is it is effectively in hibernation due to a lack of volunteers to run it, not due to the club. Obviously wages are a bit higher now than when it was established, it would make less of a difference now realistically as the same amount of money would go nowhere near as far.
> 
> I suspect the drop off in fans sponsoring match balls etc may be due to a rise in price as much as anything else. Back in my day it was often done by one person, these days pictures usually show a group of people. Throw in a cost of living crisis that is about to bite with a vengeance, new energy cap details due next week, and it's perhaps not surprising selling sponsorship is now more challenging.


Oh I don't know. The Hamlet crowd seem a lot more affluent than many other clubs.


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## AveryDave (Aug 19, 2022)

Roger D said:


> I'm sure the club would be happy to have 12th Man running still. My understanding is it is effectively in hibernation due to a lack of volunteers to run it, not due to the club. Obviously wages are a bit higher now than when it was established, it would make less of a difference now realistically as the same amount of money would go nowhere near as far.
> 
> I suspect the drop off in fans sponsoring match balls etc may be due to a rise in price as much as anything else. Back in my day it was often done by one person, these days pictures usually show a group of people. Throw in a cost of living crisis that is about to bite with a vengeance, new energy cap details due next week, and it's perhaps not surprising selling sponsorship is now more challenging.



On the 12th Man scheme, the below from last year confirmed that the fall off of volunteers to run it was predicated by a few things - _"the crowds swelled but not with the sort of people who would hand over money for nothing to help the club... As numbers grew to 2000+ the stand would simply get lost in a swarm of people, and when we occasionally explained to someone what we were doing the standard response would be 'why does a non league club getting gates like this expect me to hand over a cash donation?'" _It's a bit misleading to say it's 'hibernation' is just due to a lack of volunteers without recognising the context behind that.

Also know the 12th Man is entirely separate from the club, but as the post mentioned an offer of help from the scheme was made to the chairman at the start of last season, but no response was received back. If it was still seen as an important contributor to the club's budget, or if the club would be happy to still have it running, surely that offer of help would have been responded to?

Can see your points on the worsening economic situation impacting people's ability to sponsor - always assumed the sponsorships were aimed more at companies and businesses (hence the groups of people), but like I said, not something I've really kept an eye on previously so happy to be told that assumption is entirely wrong - and even if not, can see how sponsoring a football match might not be top of companies lists of ways to spend money at the moment.



Scrooge said:


> Hi all, Neil here - haven’t posted on Urban for a long time but was alerted to some chat on here about the 12th Man so thought I’d come on and reply.
> 
> Firstly, Burty is spot on - the 12th Man was set up as a fan led initiative to help DHFC through some hard times, and has never been run by the club. It was always entirely volunteer led, and has raised in excess of £80,000 for the club over eight years, always to fund specific additional players  in times of need.  I’ll always think back fondly of signings like Chico Ramos when big Phil got injured in the season‘s run-in, and of course Danny Carr when we had the chance of signing a young striker previously on the books at Reading, but the club couldn’t stretch the budget to meet his wages.
> 
> ...


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## Roger D (Aug 19, 2022)

Some are, some aren't..All the available evidence suggests that's been the case for north of a century.

Debt advisory services are reporting a surge in calls from people earning north of £100k p.a. as people tend to get used to spending what they earn. 


AveryDave said:


> On the 12th Man scheme, the below from last year confirmed that the fall off of volunteers to run it was predicated by a few things - _"the crowds swelled but not with the sort of people who would hand over money for nothing to help the club... As numbers grew to 2000+ the stand would simply get lost in a swarm of people, and when we occasionally explained to someone what we were doing the standard response would be 'why does a non league club getting gates like this expect me to hand over a cash donation?'" _It's a bit misleading to say it's 'hibernation' is just due to a lack of volunteers without recognising the context behind that.
> 
> Also know the 12th Man is entirely separate from the club, but as the post mentioned an offer of help from the scheme was made to the chairman at the start of last season, but no response was received back. If it was still seen as an important contributor to the club's budget, or if the club would be happy to still have it running, surely that offer of help would have been responded to?
> 
> Can see your points on the worsening economic situation impacting people's ability to sponsor - always assumed the sponsorships were aimed more at companies and businesses (hence the groups of people), but like I said, not something I've really kept an eye on previously so happy to be told that assumption is entirely wrong - and even if not, can see how sponsoring a football match might not be top of companies lists of ways to spend money at the moment.


Honestly I don't know. My memory is Neil and Shaun appealed for someone to take 12th Man on but no-one did. I may be wrong, I now live in Hampshire and am not dialled in to day to day events. I accept the 12th Man stand got a bit lost in the crowds. I do recall causing a row by signing the last South London football history booklet I wrote to fund 12th Man over to Fisher as 12th Man had no-one to sell it and I live in Hampshire so couldn't turn up week after week to sell it. (Not a big loss, it wasn't about DHFC and DHFC stuff had declining sales - why you don't see any now. Fisher probably made £400 - £500 over several months. Pretty irrelevant at this level.)

I go back to 1991, back then player sponsorships, match ball sponsorships were priced for both fans and businesses owned by fans. I may be wrong but I suspect things have changed.


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## baleboy_93 (Aug 19, 2022)

AveryDave said:


> Can't say I've ever kept much of an eye on match day sponsorship over the seasons, but record numbers of people through the gate whilst no-one wants to sponsor the match or the ball seems a bit weird? The club are still looking for sponsors for tomorrow and were in a similar position for the Braintree game, with the Dulwich Diverter stepping into the breach a few days before.
> 
> Absolutely nothing to back this up beyond connecting those potentially random dots, but could it be that a smaller number of long term fans who were willing to invest in the club have been replaced with a larger number of newer fans who are happy to pay for their ticket but not really interested in contributing anything more than that?
> 
> ...



In regards to the matchday sponsorship, we have sold the package for 21/23 games this season, with just tomorrow and Boxing Day unsold. Could just be the holidays season when people are away.

Matchball sponsorship is more of a struggle, but this is not new to this season.


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## AveryDave (Aug 19, 2022)

Would have been sensible if I’d asked about that before going all conspiracy theory…


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## Paula_G (Aug 20, 2022)

As someone who volunteers when I can (playing, admin & more with Peckham Town & Goal Diggers gets a lot of call on my time now) as a thank you to those in the club who’ve stuck by me through so much there is always going to something that detracts volunteers. That’s the fact that the club has a lot of paid (non-playing) employees on match day. It’s not always going to easy to attract volunteers for up to five hours unremunerated work when there are also those getting paid for doing a similar job. If the club is too attract more volunteers then it needs to find incentives that work, maybe helping with travel & admission to away games as an example.


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## tonysingh (Aug 20, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> As someone who volunteers when I can (playing, admin & more with Peckham Town & Goal Diggers gets a lot of call on my time now) as a thank you to those in the club who’ve stuck by me through so much there is always going to something that detracts volunteers. That’s the fact that the club has a lot of paid (non-playing) employees on match day. It’s not always going to easy to attract volunteers for up to five hours unremunerated work when there are also those getting paid for doing a similar job. If the club is too attract more volunteers then it needs to find incentives that work, maybe helping with travel & admission to away games as an example.



Goodness me Paula. You've made a sensible suggestion.


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## Paula_G (Aug 20, 2022)

I always make sensible suggestions. Whether other chose to agree with them is up to them.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Aug 20, 2022)

editor said:


> Oh I don't know. The Hamlet crowd seem a lot more affluent than many other clubs.


Yep, I ruefully overhear at least 3 'next holiday plans' every time I go to Hamlet. Usually skiing trips, from what I gather.


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## scousedom (Aug 20, 2022)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Yep, I ruefully overhear at least 3 'next holiday plans' every time I go to Hamlet. Usually skiing trips, from what I gather.


“Tuscany…” is increasingly an ode to the second home destination of choice.


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## Cat Daisy (Aug 20, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> As someone who volunteers when I can (playing, admin & more with Peckham Town & Goal Diggers gets a lot of call on my time now) as a thank you to those in the club who’ve stuck by me through so much there is always going to something that detracts volunteers. That’s the fact that the club has a lot of paid (non-playing) employees on match day. It’s not always going to easy to attract volunteers for up to five hours unremunerated work when there are also those getting paid for doing a similar job. If the club is too attract more volunteers then it needs to find incentives that work, maybe helping with travel & admission to away games as an example.


Have they at least laid on a "Thank the volunteers" evening with free food &  drinks, as did the step 3 club that I used to volunteer at? But the subsidised away tix is a good idea too.


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## Paula_G (Aug 20, 2022)

There was a thank you to sponsors night arranged by the brilliant Clare which a lot of volunteers were in attendance as most of us are player sponsors. It was also the night that Ryan Adams and Signify were apparently brought on as sponsors


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## Paula_G (Aug 21, 2022)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Yep, I ruefully overhear at least 3 'next holiday plans' every time I go to Hamlet. Usually skiing trips, from what I gather.


Not guilty your honour. Haven’t been skiing in years though now you mention it got to start saving up for the next trip.


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## Cat Daisy (Aug 21, 2022)

Dulwich gig over. Onto the next one. Perhaps it pays better?
Masked Dancer 2022 | Start date, line-up, judges and news | Radio Times


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## tonysingh (Aug 21, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> Not guilty your honour. Haven’t been skiing in years though now you mention it got to start saving up for the next trip.




Oh I dunno, you sound half piste to me.


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## editor (Aug 31, 2022)

Great that he's done the interview but not a single word said about the club's blazing hypocrisy for bringing in the celebrity face of gambling. Peter Crouch.


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## hash tag (Sep 6, 2022)

First Crouch, next Johnson? Boris and Carrie have reportedly bought in this leafy south London village


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## Cyclodunc (Sep 6, 2022)

What?


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## hash tag (Sep 6, 2022)

Mr Johnson is possibly moving to Dulwich. He might want to socialise with the locals and attend footie.


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## Taper (Sep 6, 2022)

Herne Hill I read - Stradella Road. Just round the corner from Harriet Harman!


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## Roger D (Sep 6, 2022)

Don't recall Margaret Thatcher popping down Champion Hill when she had her place in Dulwich, though one Hendon fan used to rant about us all being Tory voters, Dulwich being a Tory club.etc. Strangely enough I forgot to point out the club was founded by a Tory politician who knew Tory PM Andrew Bonar-Law Given his known indifference to football I doubt Boris will be spotted behind the goal...

Incidentally Mishi wrote to John Major once asking if he ever watched Hamlet in his youth. He got a strangely worded reply saying something like had no recollection of doing so.


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## Cyclodunc (Sep 6, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Mr Johnson is possibly moving to Dulwich. He might want to socialise with the locals and attend footie.



I doubt it.


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## pbsmooth (Sep 6, 2022)

I can see it now. Replica shirt squeeze over his suit shirt.


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## hash tag (Sep 6, 2022)

If you were a proper dad, it's a right of passage to take your young lad to football. You know it makes sense.


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## tonysingh (Sep 6, 2022)

hash tag said:


> If you were a proper dad, it's a right of passage to take your young lad to football. You know it makes sense.



BoJo strikes me as the sort to support Toots.


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## David Clapson (Oct 4, 2022)

Where's the thread discussing the TV series? Peter Crouch: Save Our Beautiful Game (A Spanner In The Works) on Quest, Tue 4 Oct 9:00pm - TV Guide UK TVGuide.co.uk


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## scousedom (Oct 4, 2022)

David Clapson said:


> Where's the thread discussing the TV series? Peter Crouch: Save Our Beautiful Game (A Spanner In The Works) on Quest, Tue 4 Oct 9:00pm - TV Guide UK TVGuide.co.uk


Discord.


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## Don't Slow Down (Oct 4, 2022)

So now there seems to be worry about the our club and its future let's see where Crouch is!


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## jimbarkanoodle (Oct 4, 2022)

Don't Slow Down said:


> So now there seems to be worry about the our club and its future let's see where Crouch is!


Watched the first episode last week. Lots of hand wringing and concern that hardly any fans would turn up to the first match of the season. Pretty sure before covid we were getting over 2K every home game and had been for a while. I'm not sure it needed Peter Crouch to walk down Peckham Rye Lane to pose for a load of selfies to get people through the turnstiles.


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## Paula_G (Oct 5, 2022)

As the programme does make clear attendances at Champion Hill have been traditionally weak at the start of the season and it isn’t because half of the catchment area are still at the gîtes in the Dordogne or surfing off Kensington-on-Sea (Rock the Cornish call it) as some would have us believe. That season we also had Covid to deal with and the worry that fans might still be wary of returning to packed football grounds. The whole point of Crouch pressing the flesh was to try to appeal to a whole new demographic though as I found out when trying to promote the Trans Days of Visibility match was that some people were less interested in the message than they were in getting a selfie.  The crowd for that Chippenham was the highest opening day attendance at the current Champion Hill and has probably not been bettered for more than half a century. The Crouch influence might be unquantifiable in my book though it would be intriguing to look at like for like games which shows that our four league games are all down on their respective fixtures in the last campaign. Whether this is a trend that will continue we’ll just have to wait and see. In the meantime enjoy the services - Episode 2 will probably have having a few major WTF moments.


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## editor (Oct 5, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> ss interested in the message than they were in getting a selfie.  The crowd for that Chippenham was the highest opening day attendance at the current Champion Hill and has probably not been bettered for more than half a century. The Crouch influence might be unquantifiable in my book though it would be intriguing to look at like for like games which shows that our four league games are all down on their respective fixtures in the last campaign.


Wait: are you suggesting that Crouch was the main driver for the high attendances last season and they're down now because he's no longer at the club (not that most people would know if he is or not)?
If you're going down that route, maybe you should factor in the long term fans who stopped going regularly solely because of his involvement...


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## baleboy_93 (Oct 5, 2022)

Our attendances after the first three home games this season was higher than the first three from last season, the fourth was only lower as it was chucking down on a Tuesday night...

Also, our FA Cup tie with Margate was a higher crowd than the same stage against Bedfont Sports last season, so I'm not sure where you're going with them being down


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## Paula_G (Oct 5, 2022)

Given that Bedfont have an average home attendance of 98 this season (155 last) compared to Margate’s 500+ this season it is only to be expected that one might bring greater following to the FA Cup. As I’ve said in my earlier post all this is unquantifiable. If we’ve lost all these long term supporters to the “Crouch Effect” where have they gone? I’d have loved them to be at Peckham Town but Saturday’s attendance there of 103 when Dulwich had 1800+ for Folkestone suggests otherwise. The gates for the first three games may be up compared to the first three games last season but gates against those teams, Braintree, Slough and Welling were also significantly less than the gates against the same teams last season (2705, 2705 & 3334) as opposed to this (1808, 2173 & 2320). I’m sure this has not gone unnoticed. Outside factors may or may not come into play but it’s going to be interesting how this plays out going forward. Dartford will be a very good bellwether given the crowd for a Saturday in August against a local-ish team was less than 2000+. Even with a train strike I expect the crowd to be higher.


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## editor (Oct 5, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> Given that Bedfont have an average home attendance of 98 this season (155 last) compared to Margate’s 500+ this season it is only to be expected that one might bring greater following to the FA Cup. As I’ve said in my earlier post all this is unquantifiable. If we’ve lost all these long term supporters to the “Crouch Effect” where have they gone? I’d have loved them to be at Peckham Town but Saturday’s attendance there of 103 when Dulwich had 1800+ for Folkestone suggests otherwise. The gates for the first three games may be up compared to the first three games last season but gates against those teams, Braintree, Slough and Welling were also significantly less than the gates against the same teams last season (2705, 2705 & 3334) as opposed to this (1808, 2173 & 2320). I’m sure this has not gone unnoticed. Outside factors may or may not come into play but it’s going to be interesting how this plays out going forward. Dartford will be a very good bellwether given the crowd for a Saturday in August against a local-ish team was less than 2000+. Even with a train strike I expect the crowd to be higher.


A crowd of 100+ at Peckham is a bloody great crowd for the division, although I'm not sure what it's got to do with Dulwich Hamlet or Peter Crouch.


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## Paula_G (Oct 5, 2022)

editor said:


> A crowd of 100+ at Peckham is a bloody great crowd for the division, although I'm not sure what it's got to do with Dulwich Hamlet or Peter Crouch.


If long term fans are leaving Dulwich Hamlet in their droves as your previous post suggests then where are these fans going? On my trips to Peckham Town, I have seen long term Dulwich fans as well as more recent converts from the early days of the most recent revival of the club under Gavin. But these are fans I also see at the Dulwich games that I am able to attend so I’m curious as to where these missing fans are now.


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## editor (Oct 5, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> If long term fans are leaving Dulwich Hamlet in their droves as your previous post suggests then where are these fans going? On my trips to Peckham Town, I have seen long term Dulwich fans as well as more recent converts from the early days of the most recent revival of the club under Gavin. But these are fans I also see at the Dulwich games that I am able to attend so I’m curious as to where these missing fans are now.


I never said that fans were leaving 'in droves.' You've made that bit up for dramatic effect.

What I actually said was that some were attending fewer games. And there is plenty of evidence to support that assertion in this very forum.

And I never stated that they were all going to Peckham Town either, although I can't ever recall seeing them at home and not seeing any Hamlet fans there.


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## scousedom (Nov 20, 2022)

Who could have predicted this.








						Revealed: star football pundits promote World Cup gambling despite ban
					

Spirit of rules on use of celebrities in advertising is being ignored, claims charity supporting victims of gambling addiction




					www.theguardian.com


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## editor (Nov 20, 2022)

scousedom said:


> Who could have predicted this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Greedy shits. And it's utterly shameful that Hamlet - with their self professed and loudly trumpeted anti-gambling stance - were only too happy to have him strongly associated with the club. Total hypocrisy.



> Football pundits Harry Redknapp, Peter Crouch and Robbie Keane are helping to promote betting on World Cup matches despite stricter rules on celebrity gambling endorsements to protect young people.
> 
> Former England striker Crouch is a brand ambassador for gambling firm Paddy Power, appearing in advertising for the tournament.


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## editor (Nov 20, 2022)

Embarrassing


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## scousedom (Nov 20, 2022)

editor said:


> Greedy shits. And it's utterly shameful that Hamlet - with their self professed and loudly trumpeted anti-gambling stance - were only too happy to have him strongly associated with the club. Total hypocrisy.


It’s just depressing how inevitable it was that a process and subsequent legislation loudly proclaimed as protecting people from harm was in fact designed all along to produce loopholes to allow the people doing the harm to carry on regardless. 

On a completely unrelated note, how is the Crouch Review coming along?


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## AveryDave (Nov 20, 2022)

editor said:


> Greedy shits. And it's utterly shameful that Hamlet - with their self professed and loudly trumpeted anti-gambling stance - were only too happy to have him strongly associated with the club. Total hypocrisy.


Clearly the conversations the club were having with Crouch about his involvement with gambling advertising had the desired effect. He must have been looking at the Big Step campaign and its supporters and laughing.


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## editor (Nov 20, 2022)

AveryDave said:


> Clearly the conversations the club were having with Crouch about his involvement with gambling advertising had the desired effect. He must have been looking at the Big Step campaign and its supporters and laughing.


The fact that the club remain utterly unrepentant about inviting him to become part of Hamlet really fucking grates, particularly as he clearly just used them to further his own riches and career.


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## AveryDave (Nov 20, 2022)

editor said:


> The fact that the club remain utterly unrepentant about inviting him to become part of Hamlet really fucking grates, particularly as he clearly just used them to further his own riches and career.


Fits nicely on the list of things they're going to ignore and just want to go away, alongside not having any contingency plans to maintain the playing infrastructure of the club if Gavin Rose and the Aspire Academy were no longer in place. I mean, how many questions have been asked on that only to go completely ignored over the years?


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## tonysingh (Nov 20, 2022)

Saw  an ad earlier promoting male mental health, all corporate branded pish. It's good to talk, that kind of spiel. 

What has made me giggle is that Peter Crouch was front and centre on it. The same guy that takes coin from one of the biggest factors in male suicide, the gambling industry.

Pick a side and stick to it. You can't play both.


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## scousedom (Nov 20, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Saw  an ad earlier promoting male mental health, all corporate branded pish. It's good to talk, that kind of spiel.
> 
> What has made me giggle is that Peter Crouch was front and centre on it. The same guy that takes coin from one of the biggest factors in male suicide, the gambling industry.
> 
> Pick a side and stick to it. You can't play both.


Said of a man who played for Southampton and Pompey… What should we expect.


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## editor (Nov 20, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Saw  an ad earlier promoting male mental health, all corporate branded pish. It's good to talk, that kind of spiel.
> 
> What has made me giggle is that Peter Crouch was front and centre on it. The same guy that takes coin from one of the biggest factors in male suicide, the gambling industry.
> 
> Pick a side and stick to it. You can't play both.



Yep. It's despicable industry



> *Bereaved families demand investigation of every UK gambling-linked suicide*
> 
> Despite an estimated 400 such deaths in England a year, charity claims regulator has looked at only two since 2015











						Bereaved families demand investigation of every UK gambling-linked suicide
					

Despite an estimated 400 such deaths in England a year, charity claims regulator has looked at only two since 2015




					www.theguardian.com
				






> Blood on their hands: How 500 people – mostly young men – kill themselves every year after getting hooked on gambling by ruthlessly greedy betting giants
> Gambling is estimated to be the cause of 500 suicides in the UK a year





Spoiler: Daily Mail link












						How 500 people kill themselves every year after gambling addiction
					

Gambling is estimated to cause of 500 suicides in the UK a year. Aaron Sluman, 23, killed himself after losing £750 in one night of gambling. Some 430,000 people in Britain are problem gamblers.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				















						Problem gamblers at 15 times higher risk of suicide, study finds
					

Swedish research, if applied to UK, suggests 550 suicides a year are linked to gambling




					www.theguardian.com


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## Paula_G (Nov 20, 2022)

Obviously from a personal point of view the documentary was important to me although in the end what was apparently scheduled to be an entire episode devoted to the game on Transgender Day of Visibility was squeezed in alongside a trip to the planning office and the new sponsor. There was so much that more than disappointed over the course of a disjointed and fragmented series. I recall a former director of the club coming on here and insisting that the documentary would be used to highlight gambling on football and the club’s association with Big Step yet there was radio silence on that along with a number of causes this club has espoused in recent years. A great opportunity was missed there. I compare SOBG with the Wrexham doc and from what I’ve seen of that there seems to be much greater involvement and cooperation across the club there, something lacking at Dulwich with less than a dozen individuals focused on and an apparent unwillingness for others to involve themselves including the majority of players, full time employees and presumably the bulk of the Trust. I’ve mentioned this before but it takes until late in the final episode before the Save Dulwich Hamlet campaign even makes an appearance and then it’s with zero mention of Meadow by name. It’s at this point that Mishi makes an all too brief appearance although it takes until after the credits that he is mentioned by name. Again from a personal point of view I’ve had great feedback from so many female and nonbinary players I play with so that is still incredibly affirming but in a world cluttered with football documentaries this ain’t going to setting that world alight.


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## tonysingh (Nov 21, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> Obviously from a personal point of view the documentary was important to me although in the end what was apparently scheduled to be an entire episode devoted to the game on Transgender Day of Visibility was squeezed in alongside a trip to the planning office and the new sponsor. There was so much that more than disappointed over the course of a disjointed and fragmented series. I recall a former director of the club coming on here and insisting that the documentary would be used to highlight gambling on football and the club’s association with Big Step yet there was radio silence on that along with a number of causes this club has espoused in recent years. A great opportunity was missed there. I compare SOBG with the Wrexham doc and from what I’ve seen of that there seems to be much greater involvement and cooperation across the club there, something lacking at Dulwich with less than a dozen individuals focused on and an apparent unwillingness for others to involve themselves including the majority of players, full time employees and presumably the bulk of the Trust. I’ve mentioned this before but it takes until late in the final episode before the Save Dulwich Hamlet campaign even makes an appearance and then it’s with zero mention of Meadow by name. It’s at this point that Mishi makes an all too brief appearance although it takes until after the credits that he is mentioned by name. Again from a personal point of view I’ve had great feedback from so many female and nonbinary players I play with so that is still incredibly affirming but in a world cluttered with football documentaries this ain’t going to setting that world alight.



Too many people at the club are all too willing to throw themselves in front of the medias gaze whenever it falls upon us. I would contrast this with the way Mishi conducted himself with as little fanfare as possible. As you point out, Mishi barely got mentioned. That sits neck and neck for me with St Crouch of the Avarices advert today as the biggest insult to the club. If there had been no Mishi, there'd be no club. That's not to dismiss others at all, I've been around long enough to know that, but Mishi was the club and the club was Mishi. 

I really do feel like someone at the club now should hold their hands up and say we were duped or something. At least, with our profile, we know what to do next time mass media comes a calling, looking for a non league club to pat on the head. 

I would also, while the idea is in my mind, point out that as a support base, we are diverse in terms of skill sets (but not much else. That's perhaps for another time  ). We have a great many skilled writers, excellent communicators and media-savvy types. What I'm getting at is, it shouldn't be beyond us to tell our own story and make it the REAL this time.


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## editor (Nov 21, 2022)

Paula_G said:


> Obviously from a personal point of view the documentary was important to me although in the end what was apparently scheduled to be an entire episode devoted to the game on Transgender Day of Visibility was squeezed in alongside a trip to the planning office and the new sponsor. There was so much that more than disappointed over the course of a disjointed and fragmented series. I recall a former director of the club coming on here and insisting that the documentary would be used to highlight gambling on football and the club’s association with Big Step yet there was radio silence on that along with a number of causes this club has espoused in recent years. A great opportunity was missed there. I compare SOBG with the Wrexham doc and from what I’ve seen of that there seems to be much greater involvement and cooperation across the club there, something lacking at Dulwich with less than a dozen individuals focused on and an apparent unwillingness for others to involve themselves including the majority of players, full time employees and presumably the bulk of the Trust. I’ve mentioned this before but it takes until late in the final episode before the Save Dulwich Hamlet campaign even makes an appearance and then it’s with zero mention of Meadow by name. It’s at this point that Mishi makes an all too brief appearance although it takes until after the credits that he is mentioned by name. Again from a personal point of view I’ve had great feedback from so many female and nonbinary players I play with so that is still incredibly affirming but in a world cluttered with football documentaries this ain’t going to setting that world alight.


With Crouch still being employed as the face of Paddy Power he should never, ever been allowed anywhere near the club in any kind of official capacity.

This statement sounds like it comes from an entirely different club:









						Dulwich Hamlet FC takes a stand against the betting industry
					

Dulwich Hamlet has won many new friends (and a few enemies) on social media after publicly repeating their stance of not supporting the betting industry and not engaging commercially with betting c…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## liamdhfc (Nov 21, 2022)

tonysingh said:


> Too many people at the club are all too willing to throw themselves in front of the medias gaze whenever it falls upon us. I would contrast this with the way Mishi conducted himself with as little fanfare as possible. As you point out, Mishi barely got mentioned. That sits neck and neck for me with St Crouch of the Avarices advert today as the biggest insult to the club. If there had been no Mishi, there'd be no club. That's not to dismiss others at all, I've been around long enough to know that, but Mishi was the club and the club was Mishi.
> 
> I really do feel like someone at the club now should hold their hands up and say we were duped or something. At least, with our profile, we know what to do next time mass media comes a calling, looking for a non league club to pat on the head.
> 
> I would also, while the idea is in my mind, point out that as a support base, we are diverse in terms of skill sets (but not much else. That's perhaps for another time  ). We have a great many skilled writers, excellent communicators and media-savvy types. What I'm getting at is, it shouldn't be beyond us to tell our own story and make it the REAL this time.


Tony I really don’t want to get into a who did what to help save the club but to say Mishi saved the club is plain ridiculous and an insult to those who really did.
Mishi became a great face of the campaign but he was more like Private Frazer from Dad’s Army at the start when we were thrown out.
I would say the biggest single factors were the 12th Man Team, the mystery donors of money who just wanted to make sure we paid everyone, Save Dulwich Hamlet & Tom Cullen.
Once the campaigns got rolling Mishi was amazing but believe me he thought we were sure to go out of business in the early days of our lockout.


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## editor (Nov 21, 2022)

liamdhfc said:


> Tony I really don’t want to get into a who did what to help save the club but to say Mishi saved the club is plain ridiculous and an insult to those who really did.
> Mishi became a great face of the campaign but he was more like Private Frazer from Dad’s Army at the start when we were thrown out.
> I would say the biggest single factors were the 12th Man Team, the mystery donors of money who just wanted to make sure we paid everyone, Save Dulwich Hamlet & Tom Cullen.
> Once the campaigns got rolling Mishi was amazing but believe me he thought we were sure to go out of business in the early days of our lockout.


I imagine the oodles of positive press coming out every week from some outlets may have contributed just a tiny smidgen too.


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## tonysingh (Nov 21, 2022)

liamdhfc said:


> Tony I really don’t want to get into a who did what to help save the club but to say Mishi saved the club is plain ridiculous and an insult to those who really did.
> Mishi became a great face of the campaign but he was more like Private Frazer from Dad’s Army at the start when we were thrown out.
> I would say the biggest single factors were the 12th Man Team, the mystery donors of money who just wanted to make sure we paid everyone, Save Dulwich Hamlet & Tom Cullen.
> Once the campaigns got rolling Mishi was amazing but believe me he thought we were sure to go out of business in the early days of our lockout.



Mishi was the driving force behind a lot of the early work behind getting newer fans through the turnstiles. Were it not for that influx then there wouldn't have been the pressure there later on, ergo he saved the club. And yes, I am aware of his thoughts when we were locked out given I used to speak to him. Amazing I know.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 22, 2022)

I think regardless of who did what, it was pretty obvious this was never going to be some sort of Hamlet History documentary. TV programmes are made to a format and it was pretty clear this one was Top Lad Crouchy Saves Dulwich. There's not much point bemoaning it not being something else really.


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