# PC World offers WiFi-only Motorola Xoom Android 10.1" tablet for £449.99



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

Now this is a tempting package - £60 cheaper than the equivalent iPad and packing dual cameras, dual core CPU and Flash support, and running Android 3.0 (Honeycomb).







It's a nice looking tablet too, and certainly better than most of the tatty low end iPad "competitors" offered up so far.

Details here: http://www.wirefresh.com/motorola-to-sell-wifi-only-xoom-for-449-99-undercuts-32gb-ipad/
More on the tablet: http://www.motorola.com/Consumers/U...d-Services/Tablets/ci.MOTOROLA-XOOM-US-EN.alt


----------



## Crispy (Mar 1, 2011)

Very nice indeed. They've finally caught up with the ipad, if Honeycomb is as good as they say it is.


----------



## elbows (Mar 1, 2011)

Cool. Whens it actually available and does anybody know what the flash support is actually like in terms of performance?


----------



## joustmaster (Mar 1, 2011)

looks nice. I still would prefer to spend that money on a little laptop. though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 1, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Very nice indeed. They've finally caught up with the ipad, if Honeycomb is as good as they say it is.


 
Now what they need is thousands of Honeycomb ready apps. This is great news, hopefully it'll put the fire under Apple's ass in terms of price and specs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 1, 2011)

Oops?



> Update 2: The PC World price and pre-order have been pulled. Gulp. Let's hope they comes back unchanged.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 1, 2011)

elbows said:


> Cool. Whens it actually available and does anybody know what the flash support is actually like in terms of performance?


 
It's not shipping with Flash. It "_will_ be available as a free download from the Android Market TM" (emphasis mine). I understand that Adobe hasn't released a suitable version yet.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's not shipping with Flash. It "_will_ be available as a free download from the Android Market TM" (emphasis mine). I understand that Adobe hasn't released a suitable version yet.


Seeing as Flash has been available on Android handsets for ages, I can't see this being too much of a problem. I find it very useful being able to run Flash on  websites on my phone sometimes and not having it on a tablet would be quite irritating.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 1, 2011)

Is it back with the former price yet?


----------



## Sunray (Mar 1, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Very nice indeed. They've finally caught up with the ipad, if Honeycomb is as good as they say it is.



Not really, there has to be apps to go with it.  Android 3 has just about no applications for tablets.  If you have a choice between a Xoom and a iPad right now there still isn't any competition.   As I have mentioned before the hardware has become somewhat irrelevant, its all about the apps and services. 

One does what it does out of the box and not a lot else, the iPad has literally stacks of stuff that is often very professional.  This is still an area that Android is lacking, the polish of iOS apps is generally higher.  This needs to change, probably will but if the Android market is anything to go by there are too many people thinking they can code.  Google needs to exert a more hands on, iron will to the apps that get on there and have a separate market for hobby coders.

Both too expensive.

e2a : The Xoom is 725g.  I think the iPad is way too heavy.  This is beyond that.  iPad and Xoom too heavy and too expensive.


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 1, 2011)

The HTC Flyer will have to come loaded with Honeycomb at a sensible price point to compete. £380?


----------



## Callum91 (Mar 1, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> The HTC Flyer will have to come loaded with Honeycomb at a sensible price point to compete. £380?


 
Not a chance it will be that cheap.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

Callum91 said:


> Not a chance it will be that cheap.


Indeed. The specs are way too high for such a bargain basement price.


----------



## Callum91 (Mar 1, 2011)

editor said:


> Indeed. The specs are way too high for such a bargain basement price.


 
Which is a shame really. IMO smaller tablets should be in the impulse buy territory.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

Callum91 said:


> Which is a shame really. IMO smaller tablets should be in the impulse buy territory.


Perhaps, but the Flyer isn't really selling itself as just a regular smaller tablet.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 1, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> The HTC Flyer will have to come loaded with Honeycomb


 
AFAIK the Flyer isn't coming with Honeycomb, it's running an updated version of HTC Sense on 2.3


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 1, 2011)

Sunray said:


> e2a : The Xoom is 725g.  I think the iPad is way too heavy.  This is beyond that.  iPad and Xoom too heavy and too expensive.


 
No tablet of an equivalent size is going to be significantly lighter than the iPad. I would expect most if not all of them to be heavier at this point in time - it's not like miniaturisation technology has vastly improved since a year ago, and Apple are good at making compact and lightweight devices.

Personally the weight of the ipad is fine with me; I'd prefer it lighter but it's not really that significant. However, anyone for whom it *is* significant is going to have to go smaller or not get a tablet at all for the next few years, I'd say.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> AFAIK the Flyer isn't coming with Honeycomb, it's running an updated version of HTC Sense on 2.3


Looks like 2.3 works pretty well for it too.


http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/38629/htc-flyer-sense-tablet-walkthrough


----------



## elbows (Mar 1, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No tablet of an equivalent size is going to be significantly lighter than the iPad. I would expect most if not all of them to be heavier at this point in time - it's not like miniaturisation technology has vastly improved since a year ago, and Apple are good at making compact and lightweight devices.
> 
> Personally the weight of the ipad is fine with me; I'd prefer it lighter but it's not really that significant. However, anyone for whom it *is* significant is going to have to go smaller or not get a tablet at all for the next few years, I'd say.


 
There are rumours that they will switch from metal to carbon fibre at some point. Beyond that, I dont know how much they can do to further decrease the weight without compromising either battery life or screen quality/feel.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 1, 2011)

elbows said:


> There are rumours that they will switch from metal to carbon fibre at some point. Beyond that, I dont know how much they can do to further decrease the weight without compromising either battery life or screen quality/feel.


 
Switching the casing material wouldn't save much anyway - they're reaching the point of diminishing returns there. It's the battery which is the major part of the weight I understand - this is the case with the Air too - and the most likely way of saving there is to have higher-efficiency/lower-power internals. This doesn't seem to be what the Android tablet designs so far are going for.


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 1, 2011)

I see the bezels are getting thinner.


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 1, 2011)

The Flyer is 2.3 out of the box, in the US at least (UK launch will probably be later?), but haven't HTC confirmed that it will be upgraded to Honeycomb?


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> The Flyer is 2.3 out of the box, in the US at least (UK launch will probably be later?), but haven't HTC confirmed that it will be upgraded to Honeycomb?


Thing is, HTC have put in a ton of work so that it works with Sense so it may not be in their interests to do so.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 1, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I see the bezels are getting thinner.


 
My tenner is safe


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> AFAIK the Flyer isn't coming with Honeycomb, it's running an updated version of HTC Sense on 2.3


 
I don't see the point of that, Android 2 isn't designed for tablets.  That is why Android 3 exists and its looking quite nice as well. 

With these Android tablets, some of which are really terrible, they could be poisoning the future with substandard devices.


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 2, 2011)

I was interested in the flyer, but not with 2.3; even with Sense. 3.0 is for tablets.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I don't see the point of that, Android 2 isn't designed for tablets.  That is why Android 3 exists and its looking quite nice as well.
> 
> With these Android tablets, some of which are really terrible, they could be poisoning the future with substandard devices.


I've no idea how a product can "poison" the future - what a curious notion - but I see no reason why the HTC Flyer can't prove to be a thoroughly useful device for some. Most people don't really care what the OS version is - all they care about is: "does it do the job I want it to and do it well?". From what I've seen of the Flyer it seems to do its job very well indeed.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

Callum91 said:


> Which is a shame really. IMO smaller tablets should be in the impulse buy territory.


 
This is my biggest issue with these tablets.  

If the Xoom was say 100-150 quid it would be mightily tempting device.  As it is, its up against a 1/2 decent laptop?  

I would recommend a laptop every time.  I can do anything I want on that on a proper keyboard.  Tablets are in a niche that nobody really needs, so there has to be a reason to own one, price will be the one thing that drives these devices.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

editor said:


> I've no idea how a product can "poison" the future - what a curious notion - but I see no reason why the HTC Flyer can't prove to be a thoroughly useful device for some. Most people don't really care what the OS version is - all they care about is: "does it do the job I want it to and do it well?". From what I've seen of the Flyer it seems to do its job very well indeed.


 
If people buy a device and its shit and this happens to a substantial portion of the people that buy a device, they unsurprisingly are less inclined to get another.  Hence these devices have poisoned the future and this can take some time to get over.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> If people buy a device and its shit and this happens to a substantial portion of the people that buy a device, they unsurprisingly are less inclined to get another.  Hence these devices have poisoned the future and this can take some time to get over.


That's a ridiculously flawed argument. Shit phones didn't "poison" mobile sales, neither have all the other shit gadgets released over the years.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I don't see the point of that, Android 2 isn't designed for tablets.  That is why Android 3 exists and its looking quite nice as well.
> 
> With these Android tablets, some of which are really terrible, they could be poisoning the future with substandard devices.


 
Look at the videos online, the Sense stuff works really well.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> As it is, its up against a 1/2 decent laptop?
> 
> I would recommend a laptop every time.  I can do anything I want on that on a proper keyboard.  Tablets are in a niche that nobody really needs, so there has to be a reason to own one, price will be the one thing that drives these devices.


 
No matter how many times you keep saying this you're still wrong.

A tablet isn't for you, but that doesn't mean they don't fill a market for others.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

editor said:


> That's a ridiculously flawed argument. Shit phones didn't "poison" mobile sales, neither have all the other shit gadgets released over the years.


 
Yeah they did!  Ask any Motorola mobile phone users about their experience and if they would care to repeat it.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No matter how many times you keep saying this you're still wrong.
> 
> A tablet isn't for you, but that doesn't mean they don't fill a market for others.



You can keep saying that as well but as people will start to realise the economic truth of their purchase the rot will set in.  Marketing can drive sales but I wouldn't recommend a tablet to anyone for the reasons I have stated.  

Are you or anyone reading this recommending a tablet (any) over a laptop to anyone? If you are on what grounds?



beesonthewhatnow said:


> Look at the videos online, the Sense stuff works really well.



2.3 isn't designed for tablets. Google have said so and release Android 3 for tablet devices.  There are a long list of technical issues that this solves, not least the default Android Market installed by default and working properly and support for the screen sizes. 

Bearing this in mind, why install 2.3 on a yet to be released tablet?  Mind boggling decision.


----------



## elbows (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Are you or anyone reading this recommending a tablet (any) over a laptop to anyone? If you are on what grounds?


 
Yes. We are on the verge of trying iPads for our sales reps, primarily so that they can access the companies web-based systems without having to wait for their laptops to startup. The hope is that it will be significantly more practical for them to use tablets in their cars and at customers premises.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2011)

Well I guess it's taking me a long time to realise my economic truth then.

I do think that it is possible to poison the brand though. If people see a lot of shit Android tablets - and there have been a few so far - they may conclude that Android tablets are shit, and it could take a while to shift that impression. All of these things are quite heavily branded as being "Android", rather than a series of individual products by individual manufacturers.

However it's far too early for that to happen at this stage, even if 2.3 *is* shit - it would take a relatively consistent series of products for people to draw overall conclusions, and/or possibly a really high-profile failure.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well I guess it's taking me a long time to realise my economic truth then.
> 
> I do think that it is possible to poison the brand though. If people see a lot of shit Android tablets - and there have been a few so far - they may conclude that Android tablets are shit, and it could take a while to shift that impression. All of these things are quite heavily branded as being "Android", rather than a series of individual products by individual manufacturers.


There's only been a handful of Android tablet big sellers so far, and customer satisfaction levels seem to have been pretty high for the likes of the biggest seller, the Samsung Galaxy Tab so this whole 'poisoned the concept' notion is really daft.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Are you or anyone reading this recommending a tablet (any) over a laptop to anyone? If you are on what grounds?


 
Yeah, to anyone that wanted a device just for browsing the web, checking their email and reading/basic editing of simple documents in a stylish and easy to use package. My parents for example.

I'd also get myself an iPad for when I'm on tour if it wasn't for fucking itunes. I'm very tempted by the new HTC one. I'm not after something that can run tons of apps, I just want web browsing, email and the ability to made a skype call.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 2, 2011)

I don't think the notion is daft, but I don't think Android tablets have sold enough or been shit enough to really make a big effect, yet.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2011)

editor said:


> There's only been a handful of Android tablet big sellers so far, and customer satisfaction levels seem to have been pretty high for the likes of the biggest seller, the Samsung Galaxy Tab so this whole 'poisoned the concept' notion is really daft.


 
Brands can definitely be poisoned by shit products, even if there's nothing intrinsically wrong with them. See a lot of Linux netbooks being sold? That's a direct result of Asus shipping the EEE with a really poor installation of Linux.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Brands can definitely be poisoned by shit products


 
Yep. I'll never buy anything made by Motorola again, after my experience with a truly awful mobile phone.

Not logical at all I know, but hey ho.


----------



## Private Storm (Mar 2, 2011)

Yep. WAP being touted as "the internet on your mobile" when it fact it was nothing of the sort had a similar affect on buying trends.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah, to anyone that wanted a device just for browsing the web, checking their email and reading/basic editing of simple documents in a stylish and easy to use package. My parents for example.
> 
> I'd also get myself an iPad for when I'm on tour if it wasn't for fucking itunes. I'm very tempted by the new HTC one. I'm not after something that can run tons of apps, I just want web browsing, email and the ability to made a skype call.


 
You can do all of that and everything else you would like with a decent laptop which has a bigger screen and a keyboard.  My current Dell comes out of sleep in <1 second so start up time isn't an issue.   You can watch movies on it without having to prop it up or hold it.  You can type much faster on a proper keyboard and use industry standard tools like Office and anything else that takes your fancy.  If you want to buy something like the Xoom or an iPad over something like this
http://www.dabs.com/products/toshiba-c660-11k-i3-15-6-4-320-w7hp-77M8.html
or
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/laptops/363157/lenovo-thinkpad-edge-11  (bit more expensive but its not so far away to not be in the same price bracket)

If you are then your ignoring basic common sense.

Having a cut down low powered computer is a fine concept, but at low cost.  These devices are at the same price as reasonably powerful laptops and suffer from some unavoidable issues, the same issues that the phones suffer from but we tolerate due to its functionality and size.


----------



## elbows (Mar 2, 2011)

Oh what a surprise, Sunray dismisses the views of anybody that dont happen to match his own views. Because he is the guardian of common sense, of course, and the source of all IT wisdom.

Millions have bought tablets and your opinion means nothing to them, you narrow minded fool.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2011)

If it works anything like I've seen so far, I can think of quite a few reasons why I'd like - and use - a HTC Flyer over a netbook/laptop.


----------



## elbows (Mar 2, 2011)

So anyways, do we have some idea of when this thing is out? Im looking forward to seeing some decent alternatives in the tablet market and want to try one of these hands on. Are we talking days, weeks or months?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> If you want to buy something like the Xoom or an iPad over something like this
> http://www.dabs.com/products/toshiba-c660-11k-i3-15-6-4-320-w7hp-77M8.html


 
Weight: 3.3kg. Has fans, gets hot, has to be 'managed' (anti-virus, file tidying etc), is very obviously a 'computer' even when it's turned off.

The ipad is light and compact enough to pass around the room, carry in one hand, generally treat it like a book or magazine. When you turn it off, it's a thin, unobtrusive thing that won't clutter up the coffee table. The battery lasts twice as long, it doesn't get hot or make fan noise. Those are the reasons I bought an ipad instead of a laptop. I paid a premium for being an early adopter, and it seems that plenty of other people are too.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 2, 2011)

Sunray said:


> You can do all of that and everything else you would like with a decent laptop which has a bigger screen and a keyboard.  My current Dell comes out of sleep in <1 second so start up time isn't an issue.   You can watch movies on it without having to prop it up or hold it.  You can type much faster on a proper keyboard and use industry standard tools like Office and anything else that takes your fancy.  If you want to buy something like the Xoom or an iPad over something like this
> http://www.dabs.com/products/toshiba-c660-11k-i3-15-6-4-320-w7hp-77M8.html
> or
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/laptops/363157/lenovo-thinkpad-edge-11  (bit more expensive but its not so far away to not be in the same price bracket)
> ...



You're still utterly missing the point.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2011)

It's all a bit like how people used to say "why are you buying a laptop when you could buy this WAY BETTER SPECCED desktop? more money than sense, you".


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's all a bit like how people used to say "why are you buying a laptop when you could buy this WAY BETTER SPECCED desktop? more money than sense, you".


 
??  That would imply a desktop is portable so is a stupid thing to say.  

I am comparing like for like in terms of portability and cost.

Tablets are heavy, low powered, inflexible, ergonomically challenged and do less for more money.  You might all be basking in your tablet glory....err...well all two of you.  I see that a year after the iPad and a whole rack of so called tablet goodness, two of you own one.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 2, 2011)

500 quid now apparently...


----------



## cliche guevara (Mar 2, 2011)

Fuckers, it's only fifty quid, but to me it seems to cross the border from reasonably priced to out of my reach


----------

