# Police and UKBA to ransack Brixton  (Thursday 6th March)



## DrRingDing (Mar 5, 2014)

Tomorrow (Thursday 6 March) there will be a major social cleansing
operation in Brixton involving police, bailiffs, and immigration officers.
Organised by Met Police and Lambeth Council, with the friendly title
"Brixton Unite", the council leaflet advertises a full day of "weapon
sweeps in parks and open spaces, trading standards and licensing visits,
abandoned car removals, Anti Social Behaviour operations, tenancy
enforcement and operations to tackle robbery."

Other sources also mention armed police "anti-gang" raids in the morning,
UKBA immigration checks, and a BBC camera crew to film the whole thing.
Alongside the arrests and searches there will also be an "engagement
event" featuring a dance troupe and Battersea dogs home (2-6pm in Windrush
Square). "This day will be supported by the mobile CCTV van and increased
police patrols during the evening as well as arrest enquiries on those
persons involved in gang related violence."

This is indeed "the return of the discredited policing tactic Operation
SWAMP to central Brixton. The discredited policing tactic that saw
hundreds of officers literally swamp local communities triggered the civil
rights uprising of 1981." (see
http://leejasper.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/police-operation-swamp-81-returns-to.html)
Now setting the seal on the middle class gentrification of Brixton with a
total state clampdown on all undesirable elements.

Various groups are calling for people to gather in Windrush Square at 1PM
(before the start of the "engagement event"), as well as to keep an eye
out for police and immigration attacks throughout the day.

For more info see:

https://network23.org/antiraids/201...stand-up-against-state-repression-in-brixton/
https://www.facebook.com/SouthLondonAF
http://leejasper.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/police-operation-swamp-81-returns-to.html


----------



## TopCat (Mar 5, 2014)

Posh Lee having involvement makes me wince. But otherwise it would be good to see the UKBA opposed and I hope my friendly dealers have got wind and fuck off for the day. The plod will probably have sniffer dogs at the tube too.


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 5, 2014)

*Bump*


----------



## CH1 (Mar 5, 2014)

I shall be there - to see what happens. Personally I think this is all hysterical hype. The RESPECT business model requires fear and hatred of the police - so what sort of publicity can we expect from Lee?

I would be surprised indeed if tomorrow was anything other than one of their "information days".


----------



## shygirl (Mar 5, 2014)

I was gonna post this up, you beat me to it.  Am going to a meeting this afternoon about tomorrow's operation, will try to post something later.


----------



## CH1 (Mar 5, 2014)

I posted this on the general thread. Here is the Police invite to local residents:

Lambeth Council, Lambeth Police and Trident Central Gangs Unit, will undertake a significant number of activities in Brixton to tackle gang related violence, street crime and Anti Social Behaviour.
This planned partnership day of action will include weapon sweeps in parks and open spaces, trading standards and licensing visits, abandoned car removals, Anti Social Behaviour operations, tenancy enforcement and operations to tackle robbery.
*6th MARCH - Windrush Square Engagement Event 2pm-6pm – COME ALONG!*

There will be various stalls offering information designed to encourage young people into education, employment and diversionary activities including Job Centre Plus, Street Doctors and Dance United London Academy.
In addition, the London Fire Brigade will be present along with mobile Police station, Battersea Dogs and Cats home and Community Safety.

This day will be supported by the mobile CCTV van and increased police patrols during the evening as well as arrest enquiries on those persons involved in gang related violence.

Local police and council officers will be present throughout the day to provide reassurance patrols and assistance. Officers from Police and Council as well as local Safer Neighbourhood staff will be available to answer any questions you
may have. 

ALSO - _*Ever wondered what you would do if you found a weapon in your park or open space? Interested in Forensic Science? If you are interested there is an opportunity to attend a Weapons Sweep training session run by Trident Gangs Command, which is part of the Metropolitan Police. *
*If you are interested, please contact Aysev Ismail from Lambeth Councils Community Safety team. Email: aismail@lambeth.gov.uk or telephone 07947484766.*_
Regards
PCSO Donna Rennison | 7309LX | Metropolitan Police | Coldharbour Safer Neighbourhood Team, 236 Coldharbour Lane, Brixton SW9 8SD.

Total Policing is the Met's commitment to be on the streets and in your communities to catch offenders, prevent crime and support victims. We are here for London, working with you to make our capital safer.

No mention of Armageddon in there. However the proof of the pudding etc.


----------



## leanderman (Mar 5, 2014)

I don't object object to the tackling of gang crime, truancy, illegal weapons and trading standards breaches


----------



## xes (Mar 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I don't object object to the tackling of gang crime, truancy, illegal weapons and trading standards breaches


on paper, noboby would. But these things usually have a trojian effect, one law stating one thing, with a whole bunch of other "laws" embedded beneath to entrap evey day people. The tenancy thing, looks like a move against squatting though, and that can fuck right off.


----------



## cuppa tee (Mar 5, 2014)

I see the Yuppies Out Facebook collective are on the case........
https://www.facebook.com/yuppiesout


----------



## CH1 (Mar 5, 2014)

xes said:


> on paper, noboby would. But these things usually have a trojian effect, one law stating one thing, with a whole bunch of other "laws" embedded beneath to entrap evey day people. The tenancy thing, looks like a move against squatting though, and that can fuck right off.


"The tenancy thing" had a good outting on BBC1 on Monday.
Personally I'm hardly impressed by Southwark managing to let 23 flats to one of its Housing Officers, who then let sublet them. Are you? 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26374585


----------



## xes (Mar 5, 2014)

CH1 said:


> "The tenancy thing" had a good outting on BBC1 on Monday.
> Personally I'm hardly impressed by Southwark managing to let 23 flats to one of its Housing Officers, who then let sublet them. Are you?
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26374585


no, that sounds pretty shit, (but those actions don't supprise me anymore) there's a whole lot wrong with the subletting culture, especially when landlords are allowed to massivly overcharge letting out to council tennants.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 5, 2014)

CH1 said:


> I posted this on the general thread. Here is the Police invite to local residents:
> 
> Lambeth Council, Lambeth Police and Trident Central Gangs Unit, will undertake a significant number of activities in Brixton to tackle gang related violence, street crime and Anti Social Behaviour.
> This planned partnership day of action will include weapon sweeps in parks and open spaces, trading standards and licensing visits, abandoned car removals, Anti Social Behaviour operations, tenancy enforcement and operations to tackle robbery.
> ...


let me just get this straight. they're inviting people to windrush square to be searched and have their immigration status checked and to be filmed. this doesn't sound like a fun day in brixton town.


----------



## CH1 (Mar 5, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> let me just get this straight. they're inviting people to windrush square to be searched and have their immigration status checked and to be filmed. this doesn't sound like a fun day in brixton town.


If I was to advise the police on presentation I would say they are confusing everybody by doing too many things at once. They should do separate events for target audiences. And not mix up public awareness with "operations".

When they've done this sort of event before in  Windrush Square it doesn't exactly have people queuing up to "engage" from what I can recall.

Maybe if Lee gets his megaphone out at the tube station they might be more successful this time - with people trying to get some peace and quiet.


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I don't object object to the tackling of gang crime, truancy, illegal weapons and trading standards breaches



How do you feel about racial profiling?


----------



## SpamMisery (Mar 5, 2014)

Don't see anything wrong with that (I mean the police thing, not the above post)


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 5, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Don't see anything wrong with that (I mean the police thing, not the above post)



You are white aren't you?


----------



## shygirl (Mar 5, 2014)

Following on from meetings with members of Lambeth's community, including CPCG reps, local residents and youth providers,  the council and the police have made the following changes to plans for tomorrow's op:

*No UKBA involvement, 
No arrests or fines for ASB offence such as spitting* 
*No arrests for street drinking*

*The police also clarified that the 'tenancy enforcement' will not be about evictions, rather, its part of the on-going of targeting households identified as causing trouble, asb, etc.  Apparently, 6 am raids on gang members' homes was never part of this operation.  There will also be support and advice for homeless people.*


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 5, 2014)

Isn't it a bit silly announcing it all beforehand?


----------



## newbie (Mar 5, 2014)

whichever clown came up with the _Total Policing_ branding must be feeling rather silly now they've granted immunity to street drinkers and those who spit


----------



## SpamMisery (Mar 5, 2014)

DrRingDing said:


> You are white aren't you?



Yes, and I'm also middle class


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 5, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Yes, and I'm also middle class


ah! a typical secret wine drinker.


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 5, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Yes, and I'm also middle class



Your demographic will not be targeted by the police. Even if you were nicked you're likely to be treated differently.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 5, 2014)

newbie said:


> whichever clown came up with the _Total Policing_ branding must be feeling rather silly now they've granted immunity to street drinkers and those who spit


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Mar 5, 2014)

Remember this police operation will all be filmed for a BBC programme. So they can have lots of nice shots of brown & black people being hassled.


----------



## editor (Mar 5, 2014)

This is what fucks me off about Jasper:


> I hear that new residents on Coldharbour Lane are already making noise complaints about established black business of many years standing who for years have played music outside their shops.As these new resident move in they demand the ambiance and policing that they enjoyed in areas such as Chelsea and Richmond.


As he damn well knows (or at least he'd find out if he spent five minutes bothering to ask) they're making complaints about the noise from ALL businesses, regardless of the colour of the owner. The way to fight this is for all businesses to stick together and not be divided on race lines.


----------



## Tankus (Mar 5, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> Isn't it a bit silly announcing it all beforehand?


Maximum publicity, minimum paperwork


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)

There seems to be an awful lot of police helicopter activity going on - maybe they're off to an early start?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I don't object object to the tackling of gang crime, truancy, illegal weapons and trading standards breaches



Grouping them together is part of the problem, i do object to that.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 6, 2014)

Why don't we fight back and tell the Police to fuck off?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Mar 6, 2014)

shygirl said:


> Following on from meetings with members of Lambeth's community, including CPCG reps, local residents and youth providers,  the council and the police have made the following changes to plans for tomorrow's op:
> 
> *No UKBA involvement,
> No arrests or fines for ASB offence such as spitting*
> ...



_The intended Operation SWAMP due to have taken place tomorrow has now been cancelled after after a successful intervention by Lambeth Police Consultative Group. There will be no UKBA presence in Brixton tomorrow and the whole operation has now been replaced by a small scale crime awareness event and some parking and ticket tout activity. Many thanks to those who supported the efforts to prevent this happening. _
(i've had to edit that to make it readable)
http://leejasper.blogspot.co.uk/

Good work from shygirl and LPCG and credit to Lee Jasper for speaking out. 

The bigger picture is to remind the Police, with force if necessary, that they ought to police our neighbourhoods with our consent.
They killed Blair Peach in broad daylight, they put seven bullets in Jean Charles de Menezes in revenge for 7/7 and they lied about it. They executed Mark Duggan and they lied about it. 

How many more black bloated bodies need to keep floating down the road from Brixton Police Station along Coldharbour Lane in the back of an ambulance before the rest of us rise up and stop them?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood it's working class people the cops generally kill - harry stanley, ian tomlinson, liddle towers, diarmuid o'neill all killed by police, all white. yes, the police are racist but they're quite happy to kill white people too. the only middle class person they've killed i can think of is mark saunders.


----------



## CH1 (Mar 6, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Good work from shygirl and LPCG and credit to Lee Jasper for speaking out.
> 
> The bigger picture is to remind the Police, with force if necessary, that they ought to police our neighbourhoods with our consent.
> They killed Blair Peach in broad daylight, they put seven bullets in Jean Charles de Menezes in revenge for 7/7 and they lied about it. They executed Mark Duggan and they lied about it.
> ...


There would be fewer bodies if they sorted out the psychiatric services for a start.
Inadequate, non-consensual and coercive treatments applied by an understaffed psychiatric service relying on the police as the enforcer of last resort is IMHO one of the major factors causing deaths in custody.
If you were at the CPCG  meeting on Tuesday you will know what I mean.
For me the most astounding statement at that meeting was this from the Adult Safeguarding person at Lambeth Social Services - George Marshman - "I think they will have to bring back an emergency service at the Maudsley, but it won't be called the Emergency clinic - that is far too political!"

What sort of a service are SLAM and Lambeth Council providing when they can't have an emergency clinic, because if they did it would be admitting that their previous cuts to this service were misconceived?


----------



## CH1 (Mar 6, 2014)

shygirl said:


> Following on from meetings with members of Lambeth's community, including CPCG reps, local residents and youth providers,  the council and the police have made the following changes to plans for tomorrow's op:
> 
> *No UKBA involvement,
> No arrests or fines for ASB offence such as spitting*
> ...


Glad the Police have been able to clarify and consult with community members.

Maybe they might learn from this that the clarification and consultation should come first. It does all sound as though MOPAC have told them to get pro-active with no thought whatever of community sensitivities.

They had a Victim Care event on 6th February along these sort of lines. Hardly packed out, but the organisations represented were trying their best to be friendly and informative.

And BBC TV was there. I got told twice that they'd picked up something I'd said, and I had drifted into view. Did I mind if they used it when they made the programme?


----------



## shygirl (Mar 6, 2014)

newbie said:


> whichever clown came up with the _Total Policing_ branding must be feeling rather silly now they've granted immunity to street drinkers and those who spit



What they said is that they won't be hassling and arresting asb stuff today as part of their operation.


----------



## shygirl (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm at work today, so can't 'observe', hope some of you will be around to see what happens.


----------



## Scutta (Mar 6, 2014)




----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)

I'm not sure what the point of this exercise is when they've tipped everyone off in advance, but here's the novel, street drinker/lurker-free scene on Coldharbour Lane. The bookies is empty!


----------



## Tankus (Mar 6, 2014)

Sorry .…...but that photo made me laugh out quietly


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm not sure what the point of this exercise is when they've tipped everyone off in advance, but here's the novel, street drinker/lurker-free scene on Coldharbour Lane. The bookies is empty!
> 
> View attachment 49613


people too terrified to go out


----------



## TopCat (Mar 6, 2014)

CH1 said:


> Maybe if Lee gets his megaphone out at the tube station they might be more successful this time .



it would clear the Tube station and surrounding area quicker than using piped classical music.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> This is what fucks me off about Jasper:
> As he damn well knows (or at least he'd find out if he spent five minutes bothering to ask) they're making complaints about the noise from ALL businesses, regardless of the colour of the owner. The way to fight this is for all businesses to stick together and not be divided on race lines.


Posh Lee has a massive housing association house in Clapham IIRC.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> This is what fucks me off about Jasper:
> As he damn well knows (or at least he'd find out if he spent five minutes bothering to ask) they're making complaints about the noise from ALL businesses, regardless of the colour of the owner. The way to fight this is for all businesses to stick together and not be divided on race lines.



Not racialising things doesn't serve Lee's agenda.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 6, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Why don't we fight back and tell the Police to fuck off?



We've done that.  Several times.

Of course, they always come back, and they always trot out some load of old dogspunk about "taking on board community concerns" and "learning lessons", and the more gullible believe them.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 6, 2014)

TopCat said:


> it would clear the Tube station and surrounding area quicker than using piped classical music.



Would Lee use his northern accent, or his London accent when addressing Brixton punters through his megaphone?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Would Lee use his northern accent, or his London accent when addressing Brixton punters through his megaphone?


it's always good to have options


----------



## cesare (Mar 6, 2014)

So, loads of police and sniffer dogs in the tube station eh


----------



## colacubes (Mar 6, 2014)

And the train station


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)

cesare said:


> So, loads of police and sniffer dogs in the tube station eh


I'm off to take a look.


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)

Wow. I was asked to leave the railway station after some railway security jobsworth demanded to know why I was taking a photo. 

I explained that I was a photographer and this is what I do. 

He demanded to know more, and the next thing I knew there's a swarm of them around me, and and words like 'terrorism' and 'security' are being bandied about. 

When I tried to point out the offending officer to their head security guy/fake cop, I was told 'not to point'  (how else am I going to identify someone standing 10m away. Utterly ridiculous.


----------



## Winot (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> Wow. I was asked to leave the railway station after some railway security jobsworth demanded to know why I was taking a photo.
> 
> I explained that I was a photographer and this is what I do.
> 
> ...



I hope you told them to fuck off.


----------



## TruXta (Mar 6, 2014)

Guess I won't bother to go down to buy some locally grown organic pesticide-free oregano off the nice chaps on Acre Lane later...


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)

It kicked off at the tube station.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> Wow. I was asked to leave the railway station after some railway security jobsworth demanded to know why I was taking a photo.
> 
> I explained that I was a photographer and this is what I do.
> 
> ...


for future reference:





> *Photography *
> You can take photographs at stations provided you do not sell them. However, you are not allowed to take photographs of security related equipment, such as CCTV cameras.
> 
> Flash photography on platforms is not allowed at any time. It can distract train drivers & train despatch staff and so is potentially very dangerous.
> ...


http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/777.aspx

tbh no one has ever stopped me taking pictures of security related equipment, but there you go.


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)

The Evening Standard guy at the tube is reading out the headline with maximum relish, right in the face of the cops. The news just reflects what a crass and insensitive gesture this is.


----------



## shygirl (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> This is what fucks me off about Jasper:
> As he damn well knows (or at least he'd find out if he spent five minutes bothering to ask) they're making complaints about the noise from ALL businesses, regardless of the colour of the owner. The way to fight this is for all businesses to stick together and not be divided on race lines.[





Pickman's model said:


> for future reference:http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/777.aspx
> 
> tbh no one has ever stopped me taking pictures of security related equipment, but there you go.



The police tried to stop me taking pics of CO19 with their guns and alsations on Carnival day a few years back.  I told them that I was sure we were just about still living in a democracy and that they had no grounds for stopping me.   The photos then lead to meeting with senior met officers, who promised never to undertake such an intimidating op again in Brixton.  Images are very powerful, don't let anyone stop you!


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> It kicked off at the tube station.


wouldn't be surprised if that's what they want, a bit of action on an otherwise dull thursday. doubletime all round.


----------



## shygirl (Mar 6, 2014)

Oops, didn't mean to include editor's post on Lee there.  Its these silly gel nails!


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2014)

shygirl said:


> The police tried to stop me taking pics of CO19 with their guns and alsations on Carnival day a few years back.  I told them that I was sure we were just about still living in a democracy and that they had no grounds for stopping me.   The photos then lead to meeting with senior met officers, who promised never to undertake such an intimidating op again in Brixton.  Images are very powerful, don't let anyone stop you!


i don't.


----------



## shygirl (Mar 6, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't.


I meant editor, I know, or suspect, nothing would stop you!


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 6, 2014)

shygirl said:


> I meant editor, I know, or suspect, nothing would stop you!


tbh i am surprised they got arsy with editor.


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)




----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)

The community event in Windrush Square - which is supposed to be going on for another hour - is a total washout


----------



## TopCat (Mar 6, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Would Lee use his northern accent, or his London accent when addressing Brixton punters through his megaphone?


His cod Jamaican accent?


----------



## cesare (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> View attachment 49631



Ah yeah, button showed me that pic earlier on twitter. Apparently the OB have just tried to arrest Lee Jasper outside the station now


----------



## CH1 (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> The community event in Windrush Square - which is supposed to be going on for another hour - is a total washout


Both me and Lee Jasper enjoyed some of the vegetable curry - though Lee ate his mounted on his bicycle, which my mother would have considered rude.


----------



## shygirl (Mar 6, 2014)

They're really pissed with him cos of his blog.


----------



## Gramsci (Mar 6, 2014)

editor said:


> This is what fucks me off about Jasper:
> As he damn well knows (or at least he'd find out if he spent five minutes bothering to ask) they're making complaints about the noise from ALL businesses, regardless of the colour of the owner. The way to fight this is for all businesses to stick together and not be divided on race lines.



I find the comment by Lee Jasper , on his blog, offensive:



> I hear that new residents on Coldharbour Lane are already making noise complaints about established black business of many years standing who for years have played music outside their shops.As these new resident move in they demand the ambiance and policing that they enjoyed in areas such as Chelsea and Richmond.



As a long standing resident of central Brixton I have dealt with noise problems over the years. Race has nothing to do with it. 

If Brixton is to remain a mixed business/ residential area issues of noise from shops/ night clubs are a legitimate issue to be addressed by residents. 

Lee Jasper does not live in Brixton. He has not got a clue about Brixton imo.


----------



## Sirena (Mar 6, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Lee Jasper does not live in Brixton. He has not got a clue about Brixton imo.



Are you sure?  I was talking to Blacka Dread one time and he told me about how he and a group of friends went to pay an unexpected 'call' on Lee Jasper over some issue regarding Brixton which had annoyed them.  I'm sure Blacka said he lived in an ordinary house in one of those streets round by the Ritzy.  Anyway, Blacka said he came away well impressed by the man.

And one time Lee Jasper got some money out of the GLC for Brixton and there was loads of propaganda in the Evening Standard about corruption and suchlike but it all went into a proper set up business which required at least two signatures to get any money out.  They offered Lee Jasper a bit of a kick-back for getting the money but he refused to accept anything.


----------



## CH1 (Mar 6, 2014)

Sirena said:


> Are you sure?  I was talking to Blacka Dread one time and he told me about how he and a group of friends went to pay an unexpected 'call' on Lee Jasper over some issue regarding Brixton which had annoyed them.  I'm sure Blacka said he lived in an ordinary house in one of those streets round by the Ritzy.  Anyway, Blacka said he came away well impressed by the man.
> 
> And one time Lee Jasper got some money out of the GLC for Brixton and there was loads of propaganda in the Evening Standard about corruption and suchlike but it all went into a proper set up business which required at least two signatures to get any money out.  They offered Lee Jasper a bit of a kick-back for getting the money but he refused to accept anything.


A couple of things Sirena
1. Last time I checked Lee lived in Atherfold Road - which to my mind counts as Clapham North. 
2. Lee has certainly been done over by the press, but he courts publicity. I am not sure what you mean by saying that if an account required 2 signatures to withdraw money, therefore that money cannot be misapplied.In case anyone is interested here is a résumé on the scandal from the BBC:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2008/03/11/tim_donovan_jasper_feature.shtml


----------



## SpamMisery (Mar 6, 2014)

So the police listened to the local community and changed the plan to accommodate but everyone's still annoyed?


----------



## Gramsci (Mar 6, 2014)

Sirena said:


> Are you sure?  I was talking to Blacka Dread one time and he told me about how he and a group of friends went to pay an unexpected 'call' on Lee Jasper over some issue regarding Brixton which had annoyed them.  I'm sure Blacka said he lived in an ordinary house in one of those streets round by the Ritzy.  Anyway, Blacka said he came away well impressed by the man.
> 
> And one time Lee Jasper got some money out of the GLC for Brixton and there was loads of propaganda in the Evening Standard about corruption and suchlike but it all went into a proper set up business which required at least two signatures to get any money out.  They offered Lee Jasper a bit of a kick-back for getting the money but he refused to accept anything.



To clarify.

Brixton is and always has been a mixed area.  Portugese, Latin Americans, North Africans, Afro- Caribbeans and Asians. That is not exhaustive list.

I’m sure Lee Jasper is very good at sticking up for his own community. That does not mean he has a great understanding of a complex area like Brixton.

The Evening Standard attacks on him , imo, were politically motivated. I am not interested in that kind of personalised attack.

My problem with Lee Jasper is that I find his kind of politics which foregrounds race before anything else divisive.


----------



## Gramsci (Mar 6, 2014)

I was around Brixton this afternoon. Lots of cops around. Wandering about with florescent jackets on so u could see the a mile off. Good idea if u want to keep clear of them. Also saw what I assumed to be Council officials armed with clipboards walking about. Trying to look important. 

Went to Ritzy. So had a look at the surreal events on Windrush square. 

Not sure what lost cats and dogs have got to do with policing. 

Didn’t feel like hanging around the square with so many cops about. Makes me feel uncomfortable. 

I am at a loss what the point of this whole exercise was supposed to do. 

If there are concerns about lack of police its one of the things that the Council just has cut. That is funding for Community Support officers. Also the Park Rangers were axed a while back. 

This operation was timed just after swinging cuts to public services, including policing. 

I didn’t see the cops do any stop and search. So not the same as "Operation Swamp" back just before first Brixton riot. Which I remember. I was stopped and searched. Operation Swamp was very heavy handed and went on for several days not just one.


----------



## Gramsci (Mar 6, 2014)

shygirl said:


> Following on from meetings with members of Lambeth's community, including CPCG reps, local residents and youth providers,  the council and the police have made the following changes to plans for tomorrow's op:
> 
> *No UKBA involvement,
> No arrests or fines for ASB offence such as spitting*
> ...



Thanks for doing this shygirl. Sterling effort. 

I am really glad UKBA were not involved. Its totally insensitive , in a multicultural area like Brixton, to send in these thugs. 

I do not care a toss about peoples immigration status.


----------



## CH1 (Mar 6, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> I am at a loss what the point of this whole exercise was supposed to do.


I think it was supposed to be a community event showing the police in a friendly approachable light.
As I said earlier in the thread the publicity was poorly produced, barely distributed and gave a mixed message, suggesting that this was some type of operation - which is what Lee Jasper & co picked up on.

That said something certainly did seem to be going on at the tube station - though I couldn't see what it was, when I went to top up my Oyster card about 4.30 pm.  Several visibility jacketed police were at the top of the escalators and by the ticket barriers, holding up the flow of passengers.

I did not actually see dogs - despite the cardboard warning notices being waved by demonstrators outside the tube. The demonstrators (none of whom were black) looked like the anti- Champagne and Fromage set. They were actually causing an obstruction at the tube entrance, so no doubt the police moved them on in due course.


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2014)

CH1 said:


> I did not actually see dogs - despite the cardboard warning notices being waved by demonstrators outside the tube. The demonstrators (none of whom were black) looked like the anti- Champagne and Fromage set. They were actually causing an obstruction at the tube entrance, so no doubt the police moved them on in due course.


There was a mix of people voicing their displeasure at the tube operation. When I was there, Lee Jasper was mixing it up with the pointless cops.

It was a PR disaster all round, even more so for the cops given today's front page of the Standard. I wonder how much this all cost?


----------



## shygirl (Mar 7, 2014)

I didn't get the evening standard, could someone post yesterday's front cover please?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 7, 2014)

shygirl said:


> I didn't get the evening standard, could someone post yesterday's front cover please?



headline was "How the Met spied on Stephen Lawrence's parents"


----------



## snowy_again (Mar 7, 2014)

Yes I'm fortunately free from seeing that too and can't see anything online, so a picture would be kind... 

I avoided the tube, but saw a fair few uniforms issuing tickets / notices / cautions around the beehive, but also looking after a well dressed elder bloke who looked a bit worse for wear. All the music cabins on Atlantic Road were closed. A steam of young well dressed kids were coming from the tube, and I assume going to Mass for A3 or something else?


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 7, 2014)

Story on standard website here

front page just visible in editor's photo in post 61


----------



## shygirl (Mar 7, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Story on standard website here
> 
> front page just visible in editor's photo in post 61



Thanks Puddy_Tat


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 7, 2014)

TopCat said:


> His cod Jamaican accent?



Sounds fishy to me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 7, 2014)

editor said:


> There was a mix of people voicing their displeasure at the tube operation. When I was there, Lee Jasper was mixing it up with the pointless cops.
> 
> It was a PR disaster all round, even more so for the cops given today's front page of the Standard. I wonder how much this all cost?


http://www.met.police.uk/information/metric/index.htm
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/elections-and-council/foi/freedom-of-information-foi-guide


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2014)

Photos from yesterday:






















More: http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/03/...mbeth-police-in-brixton-proves-a-pr-disaster/


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 7, 2014)

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-police-swamped-brixton-yesterday?utm_source=vicefbuk


----------



## shygirl (Mar 7, 2014)

Listen, whatever people say about Lee, were it not for him, awareness of yesterday's events would have been very limited.  He has his 'constituency' (for want of a better term) and he fights for it.  Yes, he's a politician, he can be divisive, not everyone will agree with his analysis, and he's very good at self-promotion, but baby and bathwater come to mind.  Lee is very astute, an excellent speaker and negotiator in meetings and, in spite of all the criticisms, he does much to keep injustices against the Black community in the fore.


----------



## urbanspaceman (Mar 7, 2014)

You might have seen the Channel 4 news report last night.

http://bcove.me/4772d9yj

Something seemed a bit off about it. It turns out that the reporter, Jordan Jarrett-Bryan, merely interviewed a gaggle of his friends/colleagues, and passed this off as a reflection of the view of Brixton at large. It's difficult enough to find any accurate and non-superficial reporting on Brixton, and this sort of nonsense doesn't help. I sent the email below to Jackie Long, Social Affairs Editor and presenter. I wonder what she will say.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_Dear Jackie Long

I’ve lived in central Brixton for 30 years, and so I watched Jordan Jarrett-Bryan’s report last night with interest. But as he developed his case, I became puzzled by the seeming uniformity of his vox pop respondents’ views. Because, the thing is, it’s pretty much impossible to find anyone in Brixton who shares an opinion with anyone else.

So I looked into the backgrounds of the interviewees.

Naomi Brown was credited on screen as Youth Development Mentor at advertising agency Levity

Matthew Peltier. No affiliation was disclosed in the report. LinkedIn reveals that he is Senior Producer at Levity

Beulah Lambert. No affiliation was disclosed in the report. Linkedin reveals that she is Account Manager at Livity

Henry Houdini. No affiliation was disclosed in the report. Linkedin reveals that he is Junior Assistant Producer at Livity

Jarrett-Brown signs off: "I found little hope of change here…” But he does not reflect the views of the Brixton at large - rather the party line of staff at advertising agency Livity. By the way, Jarrett-Brown used to work at Livity and later, when he went freelance, he rented office space there. So what we really saw last night was actually a choreographed performance by a clique of Jarrett-Brown’s friends and colleagues. There was one independent interviewee; inevitably it was Lee Jasper.

This is terribly shoddy journalism.

What do you think ?

Regards

Urbanspaceman_


----------



## CH1 (Mar 7, 2014)

shygirl said:


> Listen, whatever people say about Lee, were it not for him, awareness of yesterday's events would have been very limited.  He has his 'constituency' (for want of a better term) and he fights for it.  Yes, he's a politician, he can be divisive, not everyone will agree with his analysis, and he's very good at self-promotion, but baby and bathwater come to mind.  Lee is very astute, an excellent speaker and negotiator in meetings and, in spite of all the criticisms, he does much to keep injustices against the Black community in the fore.


I think he gets into a state about things and he single handedly cranked up the situation yesterday. He should go on a self-awareness course.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 7, 2014)

urbanspaceman said:


> You might have seen the Channel 4 news report last night.
> 
> http://bcove.me/4772d9yj
> 
> ...


should have complained to channel 4 too.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 7, 2014)

good work urbanspaceman 
proper shoddy journalism indeed!


----------



## urbanspaceman (Mar 7, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> should have complained to channel 4 too.


I sent that message to the Channel 4 newsroom


----------



## shakespearegirl (Mar 7, 2014)

urbanspaceman said:


> I sent that message to the Channel 4 newsroom



You should also complain to the channel 4 and ITN compliance departments. all public complaints should be referred to them regardless of which department it comes into. This is well dodgy.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2014)

I'm going to post this on Brixton Buzz to make sure it reaches as many people as possible.

(I've already asked for permission!)


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2014)

Here's the article. Thanks to urbanspaceman  for such great journalistic digging. 

http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/03/...egrity-of-channel-4s-video-report-on-brixton/


----------



## shygirl (Mar 7, 2014)

Apart from the lazy journalism, Livity have done/do some amazing work with young people.


----------



## Gramsci (Mar 7, 2014)

DrRingDing said:


> http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-police-swamped-brixton-yesterday?utm_source=vicefbuk


Thanks  for the link. Vice do some good stuff.

Also read the Lambeth press release linked in article. Notice its dated on the day that Met/ Lambeth did this action. So no warning or consultation of residents took place.



> Cllr Jack Hopkins, Cabinet member for Cabinet Member for Safer and Stronger Neighbourhoods, said: “We are working with the community to make sure the gang problems don’t return. The recent fatalities show how urgent this work is.
> 
> “We are doing all we can, and *now we want the people from our communities to take responsibility* for these issues.



So Gang crime is responsibility of residents to deal with? Was that the message I am supposed to take from that day? Bizarre comment from Hopkins.




> The renewed push will also see the London Fire Brigade present, Battersea Dogs and Cats Home staff on hand.  Lambeth council’s community safety team will be out speaking to businesses, residents and community groups to spread the message and offer people support.



I had short look at Windrush sq event. Did not like the atmosphere and left. If that’s the way that the Council wants to reassure residents didn’t work for me.

And WTF do homeless kittens have to do with gang crime? Or a Fire Engine. Which turned up when I was there.



> Detective Chief Inspector Claire Crawley, Trident Central Gangs Unit,
> “Brixton Unite demonstrates Lambeth’s communities coming together to support the fight against gang crime



No it does not. This policing action with the Council was directed at low level offences and breaches of trading standards. Not directed against serious gang crime. Gang members would have stayed away for the day once they realized what was going on.

Nor was I consulted about this in any form. Without U75 I would not have known about it. So it bollox to say its uniting anyone.




> Wesley Walters-Stephenson, Lambeth Community Police Consultative Group chairman, said: “We wholeheartedly support that the community is being involved in the initiative today



Do not understand this. Given that I was under impression that there was disquiet in CPCG about this action. shygirl


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 7, 2014)

Saw this post just now: http://wire.novaramedia.com/2014/03/4-thoughts-on-brixton-unite-and-the-policing-of-gentrification/

Lots of it, but this is part of one of the conclusions:



> ...What we know is (a) gentrification continues at a startling rate (b) this is only a prelude to more extensive and spiteful operations  and (c) local institutions – traditionally charged with mediating conflict – are happy to endorse this sort of police work. Given we know this, we need to begin to think seriously about how to fight back. There were signs on Thursday of how this counter-power might work.
> 
> Importantly, it has to be hyper-local, focusing on particular areas, even streets or blocks. This is because any intervention that isn’t by the community is doomed to be meaningless fronting. It’s also because police vehicles are faster than text call-outs. Police don’t usually publicise when and where they intend to operate. When raids and stops happen, we can’t and shouldn’t be reliant on a disparate network of activists to get to Brixton (or anywhere else) in time to intervene...


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 7, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> And WTF do homeless kittens have to do with gang crime?



Maybe someone has done a scientific study that shows that if you give young people who are at risk of getting involved in gangs, a fluffy kitten, they will be less likely to go and commit crime.



Srsly, dunno.  I expect the homeless kittens were embarrassed to be taking part.


----------



## Gramsci (Mar 7, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> Maybe someone has done a scientific study that shows that if you give young people who are at risk of getting involved in gangs, a fluffy kitten, they will be less likely to go and commit crime.



That depends on the kitten.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 7, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> That depends on the kitten.



but he might be an undercover kitty cop.

kitties are good at undercover stuff.  

under as many covers as possible if it's cold...


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Mar 7, 2014)

from cops to kitties in 4 pages - good work urban


----------



## shygirl (Mar 7, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Thanks  for the link. Vice do some good stuff.
> 
> Also read the Lambeth press release linked in article. Notice its dated on the day that Met/ Lambeth did this action. So no warning or consultation of residents took place.
> 
> ...



Can't really account for what others say, on this occasion.  There was indeed disquiet because of the lack of consultation and because it seemed to focus on enforcement more than anything else.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2014)

It's been suggested that the Ch 4 piece may add up to a breach of ofcom regulations. Anyone know about these things?

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/broadcast-codes/broadcast-code/impartiality/


----------



## leanderman (Mar 8, 2014)

As a journalist, I've done some awful vox pops - but this one takes the piss.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2014)

That Livity sure are an interesting bunch.


> What Livity wore – Sneaker culture in the office
> While most keep tabs on how savvy brands such as Adidas, Nike, Puma, Reebok and New Balance tie their products to high profile sports stars, famous hip-hop artists, and popular culture icons for inspiration. I challenge you to find another creative cluster with more individual style than the Livity lot.
> http://livity.co.uk/2014/what-livity-wore-–-sneaker-culture-in-the-office/


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 8, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Thanks  for the link. Vice do some good stuff.
> 
> Also read the Lambeth press release linked in article. Notice its dated on the day that Met/ Lambeth did this action. So no warning or consultation of residents took place.
> 
> ...



Hopkins is either ignorant of, or ignoring, the role Lambeth Labour have played over the last 15 years or so in decapitating youth services - something that had an adverse effect on keeping kids away from gang culture.
What better way to diffuse blame, than to put the onus on "the community"?


----------



## CH1 (Mar 8, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Hopkins is either ignorant of, or ignoring, the role Lambeth Labour have played over the last 15 years or so in decapitating youth services - something that had an adverse effect on keeping kids away from gang culture.
> What better way to diffuse blame, than to put the onus on "the community"?


If you go into the deep history of the Lambeth youth service I think you will find it has been in chaos since the demise of ILEA in 1990. From what I can recall Lambeth's Director of Education 1988 -95 had a "difficult" relationship with councillors of all parties - one consequence of which was the closure of Dick Shepard School which had youth club facilities.
The impression I am left with is that the Youth Service was simply never treated as a worthwhile specialism and instead ended up mouldering away with death by a thousand cuts, including by Lambeth Labour as you say.


----------



## DrRingDing (Mar 8, 2014)

editor said:


> It's been suggested that the Ch 4 piece may add up to a breach of ofcom regulations. Anyone know about these things?
> 
> http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/broadcast-codes/broadcast-code/impartiality/



Have you got a link to this?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 8, 2014)

the piece? post 86 or 93


----------



## urbanspaceman (Mar 9, 2014)

Here’s a twitter exchange between Jarrett-Brown and Peltier:
—————————-

Mr Matthew Peltier ‏@PeltierEffect Mar 7
A friend of a friend saw it in America. We intentional _[sic, presumably "international"]_

Jordan Jarrett Bryan ‏@_JordanJBryan Mar 7
#Big that’s how we do. Well done guys, C4N were very pleased with you all
—————————-
So does this mean that C4 is actually orchestrating this coverage of Brixton deliberately ?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 9, 2014)

CH1 said:


> If you go into the deep history of the Lambeth youth service I think you will find it has been in chaos since the demise of ILEA in 1990. From what I can recall Lambeth's Director of Education 1988 -95 had a "difficult" relationship with councillors of all parties - one consequence of which was the closure of Dick Shepard School which had youth club facilities.
> The impression I am left with is that the Youth Service was simply never treated as a worthwhile specialism and instead ended up mouldering away with death by a thousand cuts, including by Lambeth Labour as you say.



IIRC the youth facilities at Dick Shepard (just down the road from me, when it was still around) stayed open right up until demolition.
The twist in the tale is that the £400,000-odd that the developers kicked up toward a new youth facility "did a Lambeth" and went missing until vigourously pursued a couple of years later by local activists, tenants who liked persecuting their councillors and MP (  ) and sundry other malcontents who wondered "WTF happened to that money?".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 9, 2014)

urbanspaceman said:


> Here’s a twitter exchange between Jarrett-Brown and Peltier:
> —————————-
> 
> Mr Matthew Peltier ‏@PeltierEffect Mar 7
> ...



When it smells as rodent-like as this does, suspecting the presence of rats is good sense.


----------



## Winot (Mar 9, 2014)

editor said:


> Here's the article. Thanks to urbanspaceman  for such great journalistic digging.
> 
> http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/03/...egrity-of-channel-4s-video-report-on-brixton/



The article has just been tweeted by Tom Phillips of Buzzfeed (to 10k followers):

@flashboy: Ouch. Every person vox popped in @Channel4News report was actually from an ad agency where the reporter used to work: http://t.co/3giZvaKGdR


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2014)

Winot said:


> The article has just been tweeted by Tom Phillips of Buzzfeed (to 10k followers):
> 
> @flashboy: Ouch. Every person vox popped in @Channel4News report was actually from an ad agency where the reporter used to work: http://t.co/3giZvaKGdR


7k page views so far too, but still no response from Livity.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

one involved doesn't seem too bothered "lol"





look it's nice outside, nothing to see here!


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

what's up with that post?? ^^


----------



## clandestino (Mar 9, 2014)

That exchange has been deleted from Twitter now...


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

? can still see it


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2014)

Screengrab it!


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

how come i can still see it and refresh it?


----------



## clandestino (Mar 9, 2014)

Sorry, you're right - I'm just a twitter dunce.


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2014)

Here's a piss weak defence added to the comments section of the original article.



> Alex: Although I respect the honest intentions of this piece, it seems to be finding problems where there are none.
> 
> The people interviewed were all employees of one company, yes, but does that stop them from being Brixton residents with individual opinions?
> 
> Livity have some great youth organisation branches who help propel young people into exactly the kind of positions the journalist in question is in, and if he’s returned the favour by featuring them in a piece, I can see nothing wrong with that.



Oh, I wonder if 'Alex' has anything to do with Livity?


----------



## Balbi (Mar 9, 2014)

It's the "But did they actually do anything wrong?" defence, which eludes the argument that it's not representative at all.

Soon it'll be 'Well it's really haaaaaard being a journalist and people in Brixton didn't want to talk to me about the police being everywhere for some reason being on TV talking about it with their name up wasn't something they wanted to do so instead I just got my mates to help me. If you're so great, why don't you do it?!!?!"

See the Commentariat thread for similar dodgy journo defences.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

"returning the favour" is not how it is supposed to work!
or try and not get caught at it at least


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 9, 2014)

The journo's defence on twitter is basically "they're all proper brixtonites and also it's ok because that's what people in Brixton think generally". Sort of missing the point of sampling, there.


----------



## martin morris (Mar 9, 2014)

is the video available any more? i cant see it


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

seems to be dead on the link from urbanspaceman's post too 
http://link.brightcove.com/services...p_VhJQ6tgdykx3j23oh1YN-2U&bctid=3303362500001


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

and here
http://www.brixtonblog.com/video-br...-asks-question-brixton-unite-day-action/20834
and here!
http://www.channel4.com/news/how-does-brixton-feel-about-the-police-now-video
heh


----------



## cuppa tee (Mar 9, 2014)

ddraig said:


> seems to be dead on the link from urbanspaceman's post too
> http://link.brightcove.com/services...p_VhJQ6tgdykx3j23oh1YN-2U&bctid=3303362500001



it's been that way a couple of days and I haven't been able to find the vid anywhere..... can anyone paraphrase what the people of Brixton are saying for me........?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

watched it again earlier

most seemed to say no, can't trust the police still
one said he hadn't been stopped and searched for 15 yrs
another bloke said that even with a black police officer there was a disconnect
one woman looked to be in windrush square near the stalls and sorry can't remember what they said
and they had Jasper at the end saying straight no


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2014)

I think the video has been pulled - I can't get it to play on the original BrixtonBuzz piece any more or on their website.
Anyone else?
http://www.channel4.com/news/how-does-brixton-feel-about-the-police-now-video


----------



## leanderman (Mar 9, 2014)

Is the problem shoddy journalism? 

Or that the people interviewed didn't say the right things? (I never saw it)

Or both?


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Is the problem shoddy journalism?
> 
> Or that the people interviewed didn't say the right things? (I never saw it)
> 
> Or both?


You can't see what might annoy people in a video new piece entitled 'How does Brixton feel about the police now?' that was comprised almost solely of the same ad agency employees?


----------



## leanderman (Mar 9, 2014)

editor said:


> You can't see what might annoy people in a video new piece entitled 'How does Brixton feel about the police now?' that was comprised almost solely of the same ad agency employees?



Shoddy journalism then


----------



## leanderman (Mar 9, 2014)

editor said:


> You can't see what might annoy people in a video new piece entitled 'How does Brixton feel about the police now?' that was comprised almost solely of the same ad agency employees?



I've never seen much value in vox pops, however egregious an example this one is.


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Shoddy journalism then


That's one way of describing it, some may put it stronger.  Can you play the video now, by the way?


----------



## ddraig (Mar 9, 2014)

dead on all sites ed
posts 125-128


----------



## leanderman (Mar 9, 2014)

editor said:


> That's one way of describing it, some may put it stronger.  Can you play the video now, by the way?



Nope.

I can't defend the laziness. But I have done similar.

Vox pops are the reason I gave up reporting!


----------



## Rushy (Mar 9, 2014)

Really? That's awful leanderman!

I have not seen the film but, based on what I've heard, I can't see any justification for the interviewer keeping his job. Trust is core to current affairs and politics reporting and knowingly interviewing a bunch of mates or associates and passing them off as random samples only undermines that. How hard is it to ask a random in the street? Even if it is common place C4 should acknowledge that they don't approve of the practice (which they appear to have done silently by taking it off line).

I've never had any issues with Livity but they are supposed to be a socially conscious organisation, so intentionally and knowingly misleading people (even if they really thought their views were largely representative of the general populace)  is shit. Channel 4 is one of their clients to whom they are supposed to be giving unique and deeps insights about urban youth. By participating in this collectively they have exposed a real lack of integrity amongst their ranks which can only reflect badly on the standards they apply to their own work for their clients. Are they so blasé about the idea of pretending to engage with a target group that they would consider doing this as part of research for presentation to their clients? They ask "how do you engage a more diverse audience"? By showing some integrity and not blatantly misleading them would seem like a good start.

And that incredibly juvenile Twitter response from the reporter shows an outstanding arrogance and lack of self awareness. What a silly knob. But he looks very young so he has plenty of time to learn how not to be such a silly knob.

Having said all this - I don't really much trust reporters and news organisations anyway so it does not come as much of a surprise and, er... what were we talking about?


----------



## tim (Mar 9, 2014)

What I don't really understand is why a journalist would, particularly , put their career at risk by doing something quite so stupid. Surely, he can't have believed that it wouldn't get flagged up.  I've always got the impression that Snow and Co. see themselves as news broadcasting's honourable elite rather disdainful of the squalid machinations of the rest of the news media. Will John and Krishnan be happy about having their image so tarnished.

Perhaps, the Independent is still looking for an imaginative young journalist to fill the void left by the sad demise of johan Hari.


----------



## classicdish (Mar 9, 2014)

Maybe this kind of thing is OK with sports and music reporting? Channel 4 News have him as a "sports reporter".

Just seems so naive and amateurish. Why not just go out for a few minutes and talk to some people? What was the benefit in doing what he did?


----------



## cuppa tee (Mar 9, 2014)

going direct to communication specialists for a vox pop would make sense for any broadcaster hoping to avoid the time and expense involved in editing the incoherent ramblings of joe public 

e2a I'm using the word ' broadcaster ' in a corporate sense rather than referring to an individual.....


----------



## leanderman (Mar 9, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Really? That's awful leanderman!
> 
> How hard is it to ask a random in the street?



Surprisingly hard.

Most people refuse to go on the record.

Those that do are usually mad.

(I'm not defending this guy, just sharing my experience of doing innumerable vox pops in city centres)


----------



## wurlycurly (Mar 9, 2014)

tim said:


> What I don't really understand is why a journalist would, particularly , put their career at risk by doing something quite so stupid. Surely, he can't have believed that it wouldn't get flagged up.  I've always got the impression that Snow and Co. see themselves as news broadcasting's honourable elite rather disdainful of the squalid machinations of the rest of the news media. Will John and Krishnan be happy about having their image so tarnished.
> 
> Perhaps, the Independent is still looking for an imaginative young journalist to fill the void left by the sad demise of johan Hari.



I'm a journalist but would never dream of pulling such a stunt. It's mind-blowingly unethical. Channel 4 should at least acknowledge that something went badly wrong. Pulling the video and stuff is not a good look for any news organisation.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 9, 2014)

Uh oh...


----------



## free spirit (Mar 9, 2014)

classicdish said:


> Maybe this kind of thing is OK with sports and music reporting? Channel 4 News have him as a "sports reporter".
> 
> Just seems so naive and amateurish. Why not just go out for a few minutes and talk to some people? What was the benefit in doing what he did?


it does sound a bit like they just got the reporter on staff with links to brixton to go and do some interviews, and he's an inexperienced reporter out of his depth and trying to muddle through / get some publicity for those that had helped him.

I hope he doesn't get sacked for this, it'd be pretty harsh seeing as he was operating outside his main area of work, but he deserves a proper bollocking.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2014)

free spirit said:


> it does sound a bit like they just got the reporter on staff with links to brixton to go and do some interviews, and he's an inexperienced reporter out of his depth and trying to muddle through / get some publicity for those that had helped him.
> 
> I hope he doesn't get sacked for this, it'd be pretty harsh seeing as he was operating outside his main area of work, but he deserves a proper bollocking.


being sacked is getting a proper bollocking


----------



## free spirit (Mar 9, 2014)

cybertect said:


> Uh oh...



and zero credit given to the source of the story.

one lot of shoddy journalism at C4 followed by another at the indy


----------



## free spirit (Mar 9, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> being sacked is getting a proper bollocking


being sacked means not being able to pay the rent, put food on the table etc.

the guy made a mistake, got caught out etc. but it shouldn't be a career ending offence for a young inexperienced journalist IMO.


----------



## tim (Mar 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Surprisingly hard.
> 
> Most people refuse to go on the record.
> 
> ...




I  remember hearing a report on the radio in the summer about the problems of aggressive behaviour by seagulls on beaches. One of the respondents to the vox-pop was willing to talk about the problems she had faced, but preferred not to give her name. Still perhaps one shouldn't sneer at the risks posed by gangs seagulls seeking revenge


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2014)

free spirit said:


> and zero credit given to the source of the story.
> 
> one lot of shoddy journalism at C4 followed by another at the indy


Exactly, and I've added a comment on their website to that effect. They've even used the screen grab off the BBuzz article.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 9, 2014)

free spirit said:


> and zero credit given to the source of the story.
> 
> one lot of shoddy journalism at C4 followed by another at the indy



I already asked them about that on Twitter


----------



## leanderman (Mar 9, 2014)

tim said:


> I  remember hearing a report on the radio in the summer about the problems of aggressive behaviour by seagulls on beaches. One of the respondents to the vox-pop was willing to talk about the problems she had faced, but preferred not to give her name. Still perhaps one shouldn't sneer at the risks posed by gangs seagulls seeking revenge



It was a seagull crapping on my head during a particularly moronic vox pop that destroyed my passion for reporting.


----------



## Rushy (Mar 9, 2014)

free spirit said:


> being sacked means not being able to pay the rent, put food on the table etc.
> 
> the guy made a mistake, got caught out etc. but it shouldn't be a career ending offence for a young inexperienced journalist IMO.


Fair enough. At the same time, I don't think inexperience is an altogether convincing excuse for being intentionally deceptive - it does show a certain lack of integrity, particularly when coupled with his smart arse response after being caught out. He really should not need to have someone explain to him what he did wrong. I guess that if he's any good, he'll get a bollocking and, if he is not all that well thought of by his employers, they will take this opportunity to say bye bye. 

Anyway, I bet he's not feeling so terribly clever just now.

I think the Livity individuals (unless they were somehow unaware of eachother's interviews ) should also be given a stern talking to. This has done Livity's credibility no favours whatsoever.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2014)

free spirit said:


> being sacked means not being able to pay the rent, put food on the table etc.
> 
> the guy made a mistake, got caught out etc. but it shouldn't be a career ending offence for a young inexperienced journalist IMO.


so what's arguably gross misconduct should iyo not receive the usual punishment


----------



## free spirit (Mar 9, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> so what's arguably gross misconduct should iyo not receive the usual punishment


1 strike and you're out eh. Lovely approach.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2014)

free spirit said:


> 1 strike and you're out eh. Lovely approach.


how do you know it's his first strike?


----------



## free spirit (Mar 9, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> how do you know it's his first strike?


I don't, but you apparently want him sacked regardless of whether it's first strike or final straw.

I prefer to give particularly young staff the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, rather than binning them the first time they make a mistake.


----------



## classicdish (Mar 9, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> how do you know it's his first strike?



"Last year Channel 4 apologised after a report by Mr Jarrett–Bryan about Manchester City striker Mario Balotelli wrongly attributed spoof Twitter quotes to him."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/m...relations-with-brixton-residents-9180132.html


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 9, 2014)

free spirit said:


> I don't, but you apparently want him sacked regardless of whether it's first strike or final straw.
> 
> I prefer to give particularly young staff the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, rather than binning them the first time they make a mistake.


yes yes you've said that. but a journalist who fakes a story goes beyond 'a mistake'


----------



## urbanspaceman (Mar 10, 2014)

Crikey, now the ES has run the story:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/view-from-brixton-is-er-all-the-same-9181662.html


----------



## editor (Mar 10, 2014)

urbanspaceman said:


> Crikey, now the ES has run the story:
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/view-from-brixton-is-er-all-the-same-9181662.html


At least they had the courtesy to give the site a credit (albeit with no link so people can't follow the story back to here).


----------



## Winot (Mar 10, 2014)

urbanspaceman said:


> Crikey, now the ES has run the story:
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/view-from-brixton-is-er-all-the-same-9181662.html


 
"While Livity is a growing business it does not yet employ the entire population of Brixton."


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Is the problem shoddy journalism?
> 
> Or that the people interviewed didn't say the right things? (I never saw it)
> 
> Or both?



Very definitely shoddy journalism.  A vox pop is supposed to be a random sampling of locals, not a sampling of your mates who happen to be locals, and are more likely to say what they think you want to hear.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I've never seen much value in vox pops, however egregious an example this one is.



They can be handy for getting a snapshot of a mood, but that's about it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 10, 2014)

tim said:


> What I don't really understand is why a journalist would, particularly , put their career at risk by doing something quite so stupid. Surely, he can't have believed that it wouldn't get flagged up.



That's precisely what he will have believed, because even as a relatively rookie reporter, he'll have seen similar "busking" done by older colleagues (usually those who are on a deadline to produce something for the next news broadcast, etc).  same thing happens in print journalism, although it's less obvious there, much of the time, and much easier to disguise.



> I've always got the impression that Snow and Co. see themselves as news broadcasting's honourable elite rather disdainful of the squalid machinations of the rest of the news media. Will John and Krishnan be happy about having their image so tarnished.
> 
> Perhaps, the Independent is still looking for an imaginative young journalist to fill the void left by the sad demise of johan Hari.



Broadcast journalism is as murky as print, with the added quirk of hiring reporters as much on their appearance, as on their journalistic ability.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 10, 2014)

classicdish said:


> Maybe this kind of thing is OK with sports and music reporting? Channel 4 News have him as a "sports reporter".
> 
> Just seems so naive and amateurish. Why not just go out for a few minutes and talk to some people? What was the benefit in doing what he did?



Usually?  Time-saving.  Quicker to poll your pals, than question a couple of dozen locals to get maybe half a dozen usable (generally *post*-edit) replies.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Surprisingly hard.
> 
> Most people refuse to go on the record.
> 
> Those that do are usually mad.



Or have a bee in their bonnet/an agenda.  Surprisingly often about rubbish collection and/or local council corruption.



> (I'm not defending this guy, just sharing my experience of doing innumerable vox pops in city centres)



Such fun.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 10, 2014)

free spirit said:


> being sacked means not being able to pay the rent, put food on the table etc.
> 
> the guy made a mistake, got caught out etc. but it shouldn't be a career ending offence for a young inexperienced journalist IMO.



Agreed.
And if he learns from the experience, all the better.
Given the "brush off" attitude he showed on twitter, though, he may be impervious to absorbing the lesson.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 10, 2014)

tim said:


> I  remember hearing a report on the radio in the summer about the problems of aggressive behaviour by seagulls on beaches. One of the respondents to the vox-pop was willing to talk about the problems she had faced, but preferred not to give her name. Still perhaps one shouldn't sneer at the risks posed by gangs seagulls seeking revenge



Those gulls are utter cunts.  You diss a gull, and the next thing you know, all it's mates are pecking lumps out of you, and shitting on your car, the little bastards!


----------



## urbanspaceman (Mar 10, 2014)

http://www.anorak.co.uk/390243/news...the-same-says-faked-channel-4-news-show.html/


----------



## leanderman (Mar 10, 2014)

Makes the diary page in today's Standard, with a plug for Brixton Buzz


----------



## urbanspaceman (Mar 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Makes the diary page in today's Standard, with a plug for Brixton Buzz



and the Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/mar/10/channel-4-news-removes-video?CMP=twt_fd


----------



## Balbi (Mar 10, 2014)

Creeping towards the mainstream like a stealthy xenforo panther


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 10, 2014)

I am faintly disappointed that nobody has managed to get a story into the mainstream about the crack squirrels being gentrified...


----------



## clandestino (Mar 10, 2014)

ddraig said:


> one involved doesn't seem too bothered "lol"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Looks like Jordan Jarrett-Bryan has deleted his twitter account, unless I'm being a techno dunce again (quite possible....)

The Guardian story's on the front page of the site...


----------



## ddraig (Mar 10, 2014)

yup looks like it


> *Profile summary*
> 
> Internal server error.


https://twitter.com/_JordanJBryan


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 10, 2014)

It doesn't solve anything, deleting your twitter. Some bugger will have taken screenshots.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 10, 2014)

one i got yesterday that includes one of the above


----------



## tarannau (Mar 10, 2014)

That Jordan bloke is an absolute PR liability. What an unapologetic, arrogant tool of the highest order.


----------



## clandestino (Mar 10, 2014)

It's the lies that tell the truth!


----------



## Balbi (Mar 10, 2014)

Journo Jarrett Bryan said:
			
		

> "I could have gone around brixton, yes, but more important than who spoke in brix is that what was said was credible"



Where to start with this eh?



> "I could have gone around brixton, yes..."



Yes. You could. It was your job to. To go around and find some people and interview them for a programme to get a point of view that reflected the diverse makeup of Brixton, it's isolated and interlocking communities and the vast, if decreasing, scale of class, race and genders which make up the area. Yes. You could have gone around Brixton. And should have.



> "...but more important than who spoke in brix is that what was said was credible"



By credible, you mean? That they're all from Brixton, although they obviously all occupy the same office and therefore it's reasonable to assume they all occupy very similar income bands. Or by credible, that they are suitably qualified for appearing on television and offering opinions. Or by credible, you mean it's unlikely any of them might say something untoward which detracts from your piece. You know, offer a dissenting view or question your role in the whole thing.



> "More important than who spoke in brix is that what was said was credible"



So it's alright to stage a vox pop with your mates you used to work with because they're camera friendly and easy, as long as they offer opinions what will be like what you expected to get from an actual vox pop? That's shallow, callow, bottom of the saucer 'journalism' of the Hari school of bullshit.

It's vox populi, vox dei - not vox p.r, vox dei.

You idiot.


----------



## leanderman (Mar 11, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Where to start with this eh?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Largely agreed. 

But, again, vox pops are difficult undertakings, especially against the clock.

Even if you are lucky enough to
find articulate interviewees they often walk away at the sight of a camera lens.

The only assignment I found more troubling was obtaining pictures from the families of tragedy victims.


----------



## editor (Mar 11, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Largely agreed.
> 
> But, again, vox pops are difficult undertakings, especially against the clock.
> 
> ...


To be fair, I don't think it would have been too hard to find people willing to talk to the camera on this particular day, given the headline in the paper  about the police corruption in the Stephen Lawrence investigation and the ridiculous Brixton Unite event which was seemingly tasked with getting as many police as possible into the town centre to wind up people as much as they can.

Even_ I _would have been happy to give a vox pop interview that day.


----------



## fishfinger (Mar 11, 2014)

> Channel 4 yesterday admitted misleading viewers with a report on policing in which the interviewees worked for the same company.
> In the wake of last week’s allegations of corruption and cover-up in the Stephen Lawrence murder inquiry, the broadcaster commissioned a ‘vox pop’ to gauge views on the police in London.
> However, instead of finding a representative sample of opinion, the reporter contacted staff from the office he had worked in before joining Channel 4.





> A resident established that the interviewees were all linked and posted his findings on a popular local website, Brixton Buzz, which broke the story.



From everyone's favourite paper:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577967/C4-admits-misleading-viewers-poll-trust-police.html


----------



## Balbi (Mar 11, 2014)

Death knell for editor and Urban75, that.

_"CONFIRMED AS POPULAR BY THE DAILY MAIL"_


----------



## leanderman (Mar 11, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Death knell for editor and Urban75, that.
> 
> _"CONFIRMED AS POPULAR BY THE DAILY MAIL"_



We can get Editor a T-shirt: 'Loved by the Daily Mail'.


----------



## Rushy (Mar 11, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Most people refuse to go on the record.
> 
> Those that do are usually mad.





editor said:


> Even_ I _would have been happy to give a vox pop interview that day.



Proof.



Spoiler



Only joking Ed


----------



## editor (Mar 11, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> From everyone's favourite paper:
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2577967/C4-admits-misleading-viewers-poll-trust-police.html


"popular local website, Brixton Buzz" eh? I like that 

Good to see posts from folks here appearing in the paper too. Get in!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 11, 2014)

leanderman said:


> We can get Editor a T-shirt: 'Loved by the Daily Mail'.



Or even more horrible (for him, funny for us): "Approved of by the _Daily Mail_".


----------



## leanderman (Mar 11, 2014)

editor said:


> "popular local website, Brixton Buzz" eh? I like that
> 
> Good to see posts from folks here appearing in the paper too. Get in!



And, in the print version, a name-check for Urban75 as well!


----------



## Rushy (Mar 11, 2014)

leanderman said:


> And, in the print version, a name-check for Urban75 as well!



I'm beginning to suspect that Ed has a secret job...


----------



## Rushy (Mar 12, 2014)

clandestino said:


> Looks like Jordan Jarrett-Bryan has deleted his twitter account, unless I'm being a techno dunce again (quite possible....)



It's back up.


----------



## fishfinger (Mar 12, 2014)

Rushy said:


> It's back up.


It looks like it's been "cleansed"


----------



## peterkro (Mar 13, 2014)

Channel 4 news just apologised for dodgy vox pops at end of news.


----------



## leanderman (Mar 13, 2014)

peterkro said:


> Channel 4 news just apologised for dodgy vox pops at end of news.



Then I'll take this opportunity to apologise for all of mine!


----------



## urbanspaceman (Feb 17, 2015)

The Metropolitan Police complained to Ofcom about the C4/Livity farrago, and here is the result:

"Channel 4 News report misled viewers, Ofcom rules"

_http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31495554_
_
"Ofcom there was "a significant failure" because the broadcast made it appear that three of the interviewees were randomly selected members of the public.
The regulator said broadcasters had a "fundamental obligation... to ensure that audiences are not misled by the manner in which news is presented".
It added that "breaches of this nature are amongst the most serious that can be committed by a broadcaster because they go to the heart of the relationship of trust between a broadcaster and its audience"._

Ofcom determination here, pages 6-17:

_http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/enforcement/broadcast-bulletins/obb273/Issue273.pdf_


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 17, 2015)

i'd have more confidence in this if the police were occasionally ruled to have misled the publick round eg the death of ian tomlinson or mark duggan or jean charles de menezes


----------



## CH1 (Feb 21, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i'd have more confidence in this if the police were occasionally ruled to have misled the publick round eg the death of ian tomlinson or mark duggan or jean charles de menezes


What happened to the police officer present when Sean Rigg died in custody who wanted to resign his post and get ordained a priest? Did he get ordained?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2015)

CH1 said:


> What happened to the police officer present when Sean Rigg died in custody who wanted to resign his post and get ordained a priest? Did he get ordained?


i don't believe i have the pleasure of his acquaintance.


----------



## CH1 (Feb 21, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't believe i have the pleasure of his acquaintance.


Nor do I - but can I answer my own question?
http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articl...-rules-that-police-officer-cannot-be-ordained


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 21, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Nor do I - but can I answer my own question?
> http://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articl...-rules-that-police-officer-cannot-be-ordained


i am, as we all i believe are, grateful for your elucidation.


----------

