# torchwood



## nightowl (Oct 19, 2006)

anyone else looking forward to this (the dr who spinoff featuring captain jack)? starts at 9pm on sunday which seems a bit late. the time makes me wonder if it's going to be slightly darker and more adult than the main series


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## danny la rouge (Oct 19, 2006)

No, I'm not, actually.  I seldom like spin-offs.  And I worry about this one, from what I've read.

It's academic, in that I don't have BBC3.  But anyway, I hope I'm wrong in my concerns.


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## Griff (Oct 19, 2006)

Yep, looking forward to it.


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## nightowl (Oct 19, 2006)

danny la rouge said:
			
		

> No, I'm not, actually.  I seldom like spin-offs.  And I worry about this one, from what I've read.
> 
> It's academic, in that I don't have BBC3.  But anyway, I hope I'm wrong in my concerns.



what have u read? haven't seen much apart from the trailers


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## snorbury (Oct 19, 2006)

me neither


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## dylanredefined (Oct 19, 2006)

Been to website ludricously excited about this as is wife  .Daughter upset that she cant stay up to watch it.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 19, 2006)

nightowl said:
			
		

> what have u read? haven't seen much apart from the trailers


Radio Times, daily papers, stuff lie that.  What I see makes me cringe.

But it might be good.


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## secretsquirrel (Oct 19, 2006)

Frankly, what I demand from my wintery, sunday evening, back to school the next day, dark outside telly is something either involving crinolines and classics (Jane Eyre) or something to completely switch my brain off and keep me entertained. Torchwood looks like it'll fit that latter slot v.well indeed.

Bring on the buttered crumpets, draw the curtains and let's hope for lashings of rain just to complete the experience...


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## nightowl (Oct 19, 2006)

this is interesting

http://www.visittorchwood.co.uk/


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## ICB (Oct 19, 2006)

danny la rouge said:
			
		

> Radio Times, daily papers, stuff lie that.  What I see makes me cringe.
> 
> But it might be good.



Trailers are cheesy as


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## Yoj (Oct 19, 2006)

torchwood is an anagram of doctor who! i hope it's good!


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## jugularvein (Oct 19, 2006)

when i saw the advert for it i thought it was a spoof. like they do in comedy sketches. with hammy acting, low budget effects and high drama about you don't know quite what... it looks awful!


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## FiFi (Oct 19, 2006)

jugularvein said:
			
		

> when i saw the advert for it i thought it was a spoof. like they do in comedy sketches. with hammy acting, low budget effects and high drama about you don't know quite what... it looks awful!



You say all of that like it's a bad thing! 

Those are the reasons I'm looking forward to it.


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## janeb (Oct 19, 2006)

danny la rouge said:
			
		

> It's academic, in that I don't have BBC3.  But anyway, I hope I'm wrong in my concerns.



No worries, it's been shown on BBC2 mid week the week after


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## poster342002 (Oct 19, 2006)

For some reason, I'm put in mind of _Garth Merenghi's Darkplace _- only *not* actually a spoof.


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## AverageJoe (Oct 19, 2006)

See if you can get in here then...

http://www.torchwood.org.uk/


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## danny la rouge (Oct 21, 2006)

AverageJoe said:
			
		

> See if you can get in here then...
> 
> http://www.torchwood.org.uk/


Easy.  You use the password "buffalo", it over rides everything.


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## pk (Oct 21, 2006)

Lesbians and Dr Who monsters - what more do you want??


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## prnd123 (Oct 22, 2006)

pk said:
			
		

> Lesbians and Dr Who monsters - what more do you want??


Bollox to the monsters, just watching Lesbians suits me


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## wiskey (Oct 22, 2006)

i seem to be watching it because it is on. 

1. who is captain jack??? i'm finding him tedious and irritating and i dislike his accent. 

2. who is the bint. about the only thing good about her is the nice welsh accent. 

3. who wrote the script. its shit.


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## Loki (Oct 22, 2006)

Gah - I somehow got it into my head this wasn't starting until next year! Never mind, off to UK Nova to download it in a while.

With a summary like this it sounds unmissable: "Torchwood must stop a sex addicted alien as it leaves a trail of gruesome deaths in its wake."


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## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 22, 2006)

it was decidiedly mediocre

and i  only really watched it as russle t davis has come up with some decent stuff before

but he is  no terrance dicks


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## zoooo (Oct 22, 2006)

I thought it was fantastic!


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## Ich bin ein Mod (Oct 22, 2006)

It was baws.

We've already made up a drinking game for it, which by the looks of things could easily end up with someone drinking for the entire show (endless aerial shots of cardiff, mostly with captain jack inexplicably standing on top of a building for example)


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## Loki (Oct 22, 2006)

wiskey said:
			
		

> 1. who is captain jack??? i'm finding him tedious and irritating and i dislike his accent.


Yank gay actor, was very good in Doctor Who 1st series (Aliens of London episode - spot the geek) so I was pleased to hear he's fronting Torchwood.


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## zoooo (Oct 22, 2006)

Oh you're all missing the point. It's supposed to be camped up to the eyeballs!


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## feyr (Oct 22, 2006)

is it going to be on bbc 2 as well, not all of us have 3


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## Brockway (Oct 22, 2006)

It's set in Cardiff but there were no Cardiff accents in the first 2 episodes, which is odd. Enjoyed it though - it's nonsense of course, but highly enjoyable camp nonsense.


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## Stigmata (Oct 22, 2006)

feyr said:
			
		

> is it going to be on bbc 2 as well, not all of us have 3



Yeah on wednesday. Missed it tonight.


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## pengaleng (Oct 22, 2006)

what a fucking pile of utter toss.


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## Nine Bob Note (Oct 22, 2006)

Delightfully trashy. If you enjoyed HBO's Rome, you'll love this 

If you want Doctor Who, might I suggest you invest in a couple of DVDs?


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## Brockway (Oct 22, 2006)

tribal_princess said:
			
		

> what a fucking pile of utter toss.



...in your opinion.


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## Loki (Oct 22, 2006)

Torchwood episode 1 now available for download on UKNova for those who care (clearly not tribal princess  )


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## Strumpet (Oct 22, 2006)

Brockway said:
			
		

> Enjoyed it though - it's nonsense of course, but highly enjoyable camp nonsense.



Zactly what I thought. Fun!


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## nightowl (Oct 23, 2006)

great fun. i want a can of that 'shag me' spray


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## ruffneck23 (Oct 23, 2006)

hmmm cant say i enjoyes it myself but may give it a look next week.......


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## pk (Oct 23, 2006)

Ideal scenario would have been the BBC paying Ecclestone enough money to stay in Cardiff to play the Doctor in the second series - and Tennant playing Harkness instead.

Don't like the smarmy Yank, and the bit where he kisses the young lass was beyond cheesy, but the Welsh cop lady makes up for his shite.

Other than that, seems odd they did this series for adults, could have done a 7pm series without the adult themes and won themselves three times the ratings... the BBC are a weird bunch of nerds at times...


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## andy2002 (Oct 23, 2006)

Not quite as good as I thought it was going to be but I'll continue watching. The best thing about it so far is the theme music - like Kasabian playing the X-Files!


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 23, 2006)

this had all the signs of a good idea badly formed seems irreipressably designed for the US market and is about 10 years out of date. the storyline developed nothing, at best this was a bad pilot.

i expected better considering what has been written for dr who in recent times has been of a far higher quailty.  This had all the hallmarks of a first year media stuides you have 2 days to film with these three cameras and come up with a 1/2 piece of work.


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## pk (Oct 23, 2006)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> this had all the signs of a good idea badly formed seems irreipressably designed for the US market



Yep, I was thinking exactly the same thing.


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## poster342002 (Oct 23, 2006)

poster342002 said:
			
		

> For some reason, I'm put in mind of _Garth Merenghi's Darkplace _- only *not* actually a spoof.


_Was_ this an accurate prediction, then?


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## Vintage Paw (Oct 23, 2006)

Overall I found the first two episodes to be enjoyable. I thought the acting was atrocious by all actors except the woman playing 'Gwen'. Harkness' character was nothing like I remembered from the Doctor Who episodes - I have to say I didn't like him. 

I will definitely be watching though, at least the next few episodes, as I hope it might improve. I saw somewhere they want to emphasise character relationships more than in Doctor Who, so that may add something to the programme as time goes on. 

It was a little strange hearing someone shout "fuck off!" or whatever it was three minutes into the programme - I suppose I was hard-wired to expect the usual Doctor Who tameness, even though I knew it was aimed at an 'adult' market. 

So, verdict is - the jury is out. I'll give it time and see how I feel a few episodes down the line. But to be honest, I like a bit of mindless drivel after working all weekend, so more than likely I will continue to watch it.


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## Ceej (Oct 23, 2006)

Harmless enough, nice no-brainer for Sunday night (watched at at 1.00am after last Prime Suspect - how good was that?) I liked Captain Jack in the Dr.Who's...first bisexual lead character in a pre-watershead show - gotta be a good thing. Apparently John Barrowman doesn't do too well in the states except in musicals - they still can't quite cope with an openly gay action hero, so he's having the time of his life here!


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## pk (Oct 23, 2006)

Vintage Paw said:
			
		

> Overall I found the first two episodes to be enjoyable. I thought the acting was atrocious by all actors except the woman playing 'Gwen'.



I thought Sara Gregory did a superb job. (The young lass with the alien fart and the cracking pair of legs.)


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## kyser_soze (Oct 23, 2006)

Enjoyable Sunday night pish innit? 

And while I find him annoying as FUCK I quite like Captain Jack - that whole abrasive Yankee thing is intentional from what I remember of the Dr Who episodes he was in...


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## Loki (Oct 23, 2006)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> And while I find him annoying as FUCK I quite like Captain Jack - that whole abrasive Yankee thing is intentional from what I remember of the Dr Who episodes he was in...


Yes, that is all tongue in cheek, so shouldn't put anyone out!


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## kyser_soze (Oct 23, 2006)

FFS, it's a TV series about a space/time rift in Cardiff...I mean it's not exactly BAFTA nomination stuff is it?


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## wishface (Oct 23, 2006)

I don't know what to make of it; overproduced for one thing. Again with the bad sound mixing and the 'hip' editing. It strains itself trying to be adult - away from Dr Who, and the sex mist from space was just terrible (a script that even William Shatner would have balked at)! However it had some good ideas; will see how it pans out before dismissing it (unlike the dreadful Robin Hood).


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## pk (Oct 23, 2006)

Yup, Robin Hood is shite...


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## Moggy (Oct 23, 2006)

Watched the first ten minutes just now after having recorded, and just couldn't carry on - it was just so utterly tacky and... unwatchable


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## Ms T (Oct 23, 2006)

wiskey said:
			
		

> i seem to be watching it because it is on.
> 
> 1. who is captain jack??? i'm finding him tedious and irritating and i dislike his accent.
> 
> ...



1.  He was a character in several episodes of Dr Who

2.  Don't know - haven't seen it yet

3.  Russell T Davies (revived Dr Who, wrote Queer as F***, among other things). 

I'm looking forward to it -- intend to watch it tonight to celebrate a run of early shifts.


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## kyser_soze (Oct 23, 2006)

> Queer as F***,



I wasn't aware that 'Folk' required ***


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## gsv (Oct 23, 2006)

Fuck 'Folk'
What needs a *** anyway 

GS(v)


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## secretsquirrel (Oct 23, 2006)

Is it just me or does John Barrowman look airbrushed? Reminds me of Jude Law in AI - like he's been plasticised or lightly shrunk wrapped? And I don't just think it's the role, am pretty sure he looks like that all the time  

Still, I enjoyed it for what it is - a load of old hokem - perfect for Sunday night. And I think Captain Jack manages to convince that he would, indeed, shag anything. I must confess I find him weirdly attractive despite being made of plastic...


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## wiskey (Oct 23, 2006)

Ms T said:
			
		

> 1.  He was a character in several episodes of Dr Who
> 
> 2.  Don't know - haven't seen it yet
> 
> ...




thanks - i obviously missed the episode of Dr Who that captain jack appreared in. i really dislike his character, i watched the second episode and he didnt improve. 

the woman, gwen, she got better and she may carry the rest of the cast (although i agree with pk that the girl who had the alien in her was great). 

i've really enjoyed the tennant dr who, but i didnt bother with the first series. the plot and the script for torchwood seemed so lame compared to some of the episodes of the last dr who series.


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## T & P (Oct 23, 2006)

wiskey said:
			
		

> thanks - i obviously missed the episode of Dr Who that captain jack appreared in. i really dislike his character, i watched the second episode and he didnt improve.


 The first one he appeared in was that two-parter set in Britain during the Blitz when a lot of people were walking around with gas masks fused to their faces. The best of the new Dr. Who episodes IMO...

He also appeared in the series finale (first of the new series that is) when the Daleks invade the space station


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## wiskey (Oct 23, 2006)

oh i saw the gas mask one - i must have erased him from my momory.


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## Ms T (Oct 23, 2006)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> I wasn't aware that 'Folk' required ***



Was it folk not fuck??


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## bouncer_the_dog (Oct 23, 2006)

I thought torchwood was very entertaining!


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## tim (Oct 23, 2006)

gsv said:
			
		

> Fuck 'Folk'
> What needs a *** anyway
> 
> GS(v)




N**l Ed***ds


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## zoooo (Oct 23, 2006)

secretsquirrel said:
			
		

> Is it just me or does John Barrowman look airbrushed?




He does a bit.
But that's because he's the most perfectly formed human being evah.
::fangirly crush::


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## Brother Mouzone (Oct 24, 2006)

Is it me or are all BBC Sc Fi series really lame with terrible production values and  look just so cringe worthy.

SHITE IMHO


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## dogmatique (Oct 24, 2006)

What a miserable bunch of sods you lot are (by en large).  I thought it was entertaining.  Get that?  ENTERTAINING!

What do you expect?  2001 A Cardiff Odyssey?  

A tongue in cheek, camp sci-fi with sex and violence thrown in is what it was.

What more were you expecting?

Having said that, my expectations were pretty low, so it did well in my book.


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## wishface (Oct 24, 2006)

dogmatique said:
			
		

> What a miserable bunch of sods you lot are (by en large).  I thought it was entertaining.  Get that?  ENTERTAINING!
> 
> What do you expect?  2001 A Cardiff Odyssey?
> 
> ...


But it's not meant to be tongue in cheek. It's meant to be serious and 'adult' (ie it includes men kissing!)

Although how anyone can take the 'Sex Mist From Beyond Saturn' seriously I don't know.


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## Fong (Oct 24, 2006)

I not read the thread admittedly, but did anyone else find that Episode 2 made NO FUCKING SENSE AT ALL!!

SPOILER!















Ok, a metorite flies over Cardiff and out into the countryside, where a gaseous alien escapes.

It then flies from out in the middle of nowhere in a forest, all the way into Cardiff city, it then flies around until it finds a female that works in a Sperm Donor Clinic...ie bypassing other females.

Ok this makes sense so far, but what happened at the end of the episode?

They trap it for 30 secs and it dies because our atmosphere is toxic to it.

Ok that isn't too bad, but 30 secs?

Just how long did it take it to fly from a forest and find that particular female? It did all that in less then 30 secs?

No, it survived for MUCH longer in our atmosphere, it made no sense, why did it die soo fast when trapped when it flew around over cardiff for soo long?


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## kyser_soze (Oct 24, 2006)

Good plot hole - why not write to Russell T Davis and ask him?


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## Brockway (Oct 24, 2006)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Good plot hole - why not write to Russell T Davis and ask him?



He didn't write the second episode.

I reckon the answer to Fong's query is: artistic licence. If we had to wait the correct amount of time for the alien to die, it would have taken fecking ages.


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## llantwit (Oct 24, 2006)

wishface said:
			
		

> But it's not meant to be tongue in cheek. It's meant to be serious and 'adult' (ie it includes men kissing!)
> Although how anyone can take the 'Sex Mist From Beyond Saturn' seriously I don't know.


Exactly - answered yer own question there didn't you. I can't see how any sci-fi post-Buffy could take itself seriously. Torchwood (like the new Dr Who) is full of high camp and jokey references to the sci-fi genre. Just cos it's got blokey love scenes too doesn't mean it's not meant to be funny.


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## likesfish (Oct 24, 2006)

i enjoyed it made cardiff look cool sort of more shocking they allowed welsh people on tv


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## Pingu (Oct 24, 2006)

it was entertaining...

ish

but i did end up thinking "its a bit naff really innit?"

if it was aiming for the whacky and weird title then its got a long way to go before it even gets near the likes of LEXX.


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## poster342002 (Oct 24, 2006)

Oh dear oh dear - from this thread it really _is_ putting me in mind of _Garth Merenghi's Darkplace_.


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## Fong (Oct 24, 2006)

Brockway said:
			
		

> He didn't write the second episode.
> 
> I reckon the answer to Fong's query is: artistic licence. If we had to wait the correct amount of time for the alien to die, it would have taken fecking ages.



Yeah i thought this, but the 'cell' they trapped hte alien in, was specifically stated earlier in the episode has having a very short life span due to the battery expenditure.

It is not like it could have lasted that long anyway.


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## fudgefactorfive (Oct 24, 2006)

poster342002 said:
			
		

> Oh dear oh dear - from this thread it really _is_ putting me in mind of _Garth Merenghi's Darkplace_.









*thinks* _Hmmm ... he's right!_


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## belboid (Oct 24, 2006)

It's _just about_ possible that the mist stuff could have travelled that quickly to infect ya lassie, but we just didnt see it doing so.  Tho, yeah, that is a pretty crappy attempt at an explanation.

Entertaining tosh, tho full of plot holes.

eg - in Dr Who, Torchwood was an incredibly well funded research institutin in  the centre of London.  Now its a rag n tag operaton in a Cardiff sewer.  Torchwood was originally set up by good Queen Vickie, and was explicitly British - PM watsername spcifically ordered its use in one of the DW episodes.  Yet now Cap'n Jack tells us Torchwood is beyond any single government - when did that happen?  inteeresting tat he specified the UN  as a 'single government' - did he mean ZOG, the US or the lizards were controlling it do we think?  I hope its lizards, that would be a great episode.

The whole thing looks like a Buffy rip off (& nowt wrong with that) with episode 2 being a direct rip off from an episode of Angel.


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## fudgefactorfive (Oct 24, 2006)

belboid said:
			
		

> eg - in Dr Who, Torchwood was an incredibly well funded research institutin in  the centre of London.  Now its a rag n tag operaton in a Cardiff sewer.  Torchwood was originally set up by good Queen Vickie, and was explicitly British - PM watsername spcifically ordered its use in one of the DW episodes.  Yet now Cap'n Jack tells us Torchwood is beyond any single government - when did that happen?  inteeresting tat he specified the UN  as a 'single government' - did he mean ZOG, the US or the lizards were controlling it do we think?  I hope its lizards, that would be a great episode.
> 
> The whole thing looks like a Buffy rip off (& nowt wrong with that) with episode 2 being a direct rip off from an episode of Angel.



Yeah. Torchwood was EVIL for fuck's sake - it was run by psychotic warmongering "I did my duty for Queen and country" types that pick fights with aliens just because they feel like it and ran planet-wide parallel-universe experiments that nearly killed everyone.

Now suddenly it's an anarchist cell running out of a disused toilet in Cardiff.


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## wishface (Oct 24, 2006)

llantwit said:
			
		

> Exactly - answered yer own question there didn't you. I can't see how any sci-fi post-Buffy could take itself seriously. Torchwood (like the new Dr Who) is full of high camp and jokey references to the sci-fi genre. Just cos it's got blokey love scenes too doesn't mean it's not meant to be funny.


But again its meant to be serious. If it doesn't come off thus then its not been done properly.


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## dogmatique (Oct 24, 2006)

Who said it was meant to be "serious"?

How serious can a spin off from the camp fest that is Dr Who be?


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## dylanredefined (Oct 24, 2006)

They explained how torchwood 1 got zapped so their an out station.Imagine a large coorporation going up in flames and just leaving the geeky r&d department .
     Though whats evil about shooting aliens and rebuilding the british empire anyway?


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## zoooo (Oct 24, 2006)

It's not meant to be serious!


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## wishface (Oct 24, 2006)

dogmatique said:
			
		

> Who said it was meant to be "serious"?
> 
> How serious can a spin off from the camp fest that is Dr Who be?


the people who made it.


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## Groucho (Oct 24, 2006)

I thought it was really good. Loved the copper running about with her hair down, and the two episodes, the second being an adult themed one. Is that gonna be a regular feature? 

And Cpt Jack being immortal - that's handy innit.

Best thing on TV on a Sunday at 9pm. 

I will be watching next week.


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## Groucho (Oct 24, 2006)

it's on again on BBC3 right now. I've seen it though so I'm off to bed .


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 24, 2006)

dogmatique said:
			
		

> What a miserable bunch of sods you lot are (by en large).  I thought it was entertaining.  Get that?  ENTERTAINING!
> 
> What do you expect?  2001 A Cardiff Odyssey?
> 
> ...


hmm what did i expect on a shoe string budget... shit i don't know blake seven perhaps... camp silly deleirious yet fantastic scripts that nearly 35 years on still stand up.... will torchwood... will it fuck...


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## dogmatique (Oct 25, 2006)

wishface said:
			
		

> the people who made it.



Show me a quote where any of them say "Torchwood is supposed to be a serious, straight-faced Science based drama.  There'll be no laughing here!"

I think you're mistaking "adult themes" with "seriousness".


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 25, 2006)

I watched this last night, but mostly because I was staying up anyway (I am on holiday - it's compulsory!), so I didn't have any particular expectations. Although I did think Barrowman was a bit of allright when I saw him in Doctor Who and in Dancing on Ice (he was robbed, he was robbed!)...

Anyway, I enjoyed it last night. I didn't think it was meant to be taken seriously. I thought it was a bit of fluffy fun, even though there were deaths all over the place, and a bit of moralising. I also agree with folks who say that the alien infected teenager was particularly well acted. I think we should watch out for her. Barrowman was a bit wooden, but who cares? He is only eyecandy anyway, isn't he?


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## kyser_soze (Oct 25, 2006)

Just to recap...

Captain Jack was in the first season of the new series - initially as some kind of cop/time travelling looter from the 31st century, and again in the last two eps of that season, and he was made immortal by Rose when she did her God-in-a-tracksuit bit and destroyed the God of Daleks etc.

Torchwood 1 was destroyed in the climax of S2, when the Daleks and Cybermen come through a trans-reality portal in the top of Canary Wharf that Torchwood had been using to generate 'ghosts' of the dead, which as we all know were in fact Cybermen coming over from the alternate universe where Rose's dad was alive, and where she is left stranded in order to save the universe as we know it.

Hope that makes things clear...up to the point of 'How did Captain Jack end up at Torchwood in Cardiff?'


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## belboid (Oct 25, 2006)

Hopefully it will be explained a bit more, but let us speculate......

following the destruction of T1 the 'powers that be' decided having a bunch of madly zealous 'patriots' running the show was a bad idea as it was too likely to lead to egomaniacal displays of power, and be an obvious target for the aliens.  hence it had to be shifted off somewhere quiet and crappy that no one in their right minds would want to visit. Along comes Cap'n Jack, says I'll do it' - they laugh, until he decides to, basically, steal the place, at which point they shoot him, realise he's immortal and not, therefore, to be messd with.

They tell him he can take the whole shebang as long as he buggers off to aforementioned shithole and insists it is absolutely nothing to do with the UK goverment.


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## llantwit (Oct 25, 2006)

belboid said:
			
		

> Hopefully it will be explaioned a bit more, but let us speculate......
> 
> following the destruction of T1 the 'powers that be' decided having a bunch of madly zealous 'patriots' running the show was a bad idea as it was too likely to lead to egomaniacal displays of power, and be an obvious target for the aliens.  hence it had to be shifted off somewhere quiet and crappy that no one in their right minds would want to visit. Along comes Cap#n Jack, says I'l do it' - they laugh, until he decides to, basically, steal the place, at which point they shoot him, realise he's immortal and not, therefore, to be messd with.
> 
> They tell him he can take the whole shebang as long as he buggers off to aforementioned shithole and insists it is absolutely nothing to do with the UK goverment.


I like that explanation. Oh yes. Apart from this bit:


> somewhere quiet and crappy that no one in their right minds would want to visit


My hometown, that!


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## belboid (Oct 25, 2006)

is it?  Didn't realise anyone here had any connection with the place...


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## wishface (Oct 25, 2006)

dogmatique said:
			
		

> Show me a quote where any of them say "Torchwood is supposed to be a serious, straight-faced Science based drama.  There'll be no laughing here!"
> 
> I think you're mistaking "adult themes" with "seriousness".


I don't have any quotes; oddly enough I don't spend my time transcribing what i watch on TV.


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## dogmatique (Oct 25, 2006)

That'll be a "no" then.


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## aurora green (Oct 26, 2006)

Well, I was only _slightly_ embarassed watching it last night with my teenagers...


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 26, 2006)

ok finally one paradox question ...

if captain jack from the 31st centry is the the captain jack which has survied imortal from now which means that when he finally gets shot by the darleks and killed he couldn't die because was already immortal meaning that when rose could have ressurected him to become immortal as he already was but then died...

anybody with me on this rabbit hole ....


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## Bob_the_lost (Oct 26, 2006)

Groucho said:
			
		

> And Cpt Jack being immortal - that's handy innit.


Captain Scarlet pulled it off so much better, and he was a bloody puppet!


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## Structaural (Oct 26, 2006)

belboid said:
			
		

> It's _just about_ possible that the mist stuff could have travelled that quickly to infect ya lassie, but we just didnt see it doing so.  Tho, yeah, that is a pretty crappy attempt at an explanation.
> 
> Entertaining tosh, tho full of plot holes.
> 
> ...



...and if Jack can't die then why was he shitting it so much in that episode on Dr Who when his ship was going to blow up?

I quite enjoyed the first one but feel asleep during the second.


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## Structaural (Oct 26, 2006)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Just to recap...
> 
> Captain Jack was in the first season of the new series - initially as some kind of cop/time travelling looter from the 31st century, and again in the last two eps of that season, and he was made immortal by Rose when she did her God-in-a-tracksuit bit and destroyed the God of Daleks etc.
> 
> ...



*reads to end of thread

ah right, cheers, it was Rose.


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2006)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> ok finally one paradox question ...
> 
> if captain jack from the 31st centry is the the captain jack which has survied imortal from now which means that when he finally gets shot by the darleks and killed he couldn't die because was already immortal meaning that when rose could have ressurected him to become immortal as he already was but then died...
> 
> anybody with me on this rabbit hole ....


don't argue with the time/space continuum old thing!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 26, 2006)

Saw it on BBC2 last night. 

God that was rubbish.


----------



## Philbc03 (Oct 26, 2006)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> ok finally one paradox question ...
> 
> if captain jack from the 31st centry is the the captain jack which has survied imortal from now which means that when he finally gets shot by the darleks and killed he couldn't die because was already immortal meaning that when rose could have ressurected him to become immortal as he already was but then died...
> 
> anybody with me on this rabbit hole ....



AFAIK the Cap'n Jack who the Daleks "killed" did a touch of time hopping. Then Rose made him immortal and somehow he made his way back to present day Cardiff. Easy!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 26, 2006)

Philbc03 said:
			
		

> AFAIK the Cap'n Jack who the Daleks "killed" did a touch of time hopping. Then Rose made him immortal and somehow he made his way back to present day Cardiff. Easy!


yes ok so then if he's now immortal he would exist until the 31st centry with the not dieing thing where upon he would be the same captain jack who did the time hopping in the first place... innit at which point he'd also be immortal or there'd be two captain jacks in the 31st centry which would then bugger things around even further creating greater paradox loops...


----------



## kyser_soze (Oct 26, 2006)

> Then Rose made him immortal and somehow he made his way back to present day Cardiff.



WEll it's pretty obvious that's what one of the main storylines will be - what happened to Jack between the defeat of the God Of Daleks on the Gamestation and his arrival in...Cardiff...


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 26, 2006)

GarfieldLeChat said:
			
		

> yes ok so then if he's now immortal he would exist until the 31st centry with the not dieing thing where upon he would be the same captain jack who did the time hopping in the first place... innit at which point he'd also be immortal or there'd be two captain jacks in the 31st centry which would then bugger things around even further creating greater paradox loops...



Not if they stayed out of each other's way, or somehow this Captain Jack was eventually killed.

I caught the repeats last night. Liked it. Of course it's a bit tongue-in-cheek, it's not Battlestar Galactica is it?


----------



## Termite Man (Oct 26, 2006)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> WEll it's pretty obvious that's what one of the main storylines will be - what happened to Jack between the defeat of the God Of Daleks on the Gamestation and his arrival in...Cardiff...



I've completly forgotten all this god of the daleks crap but even if I did remember it I'd still have to say Torchwood was fucking shite . To me it had the same sort of formula as Doctor Who ( eg. capn jack -> doctor , policewoman -> doctors assistant ) but just wasn't as good . The concept is great but I reckon they should have got someone else to write it so because it seemed like Doctor Whos poor cousin .


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 26, 2006)

Stigmata said:
			
		

> Not if they stayed out of each other's way, or somehow this Captain Jack was eventually killed.
> 
> I caught the repeats last night. Liked it. Of course it's a bit tongue-in-cheek, it's not Battlestar Galactica is it?


no it isn't and it could have been ...

theory of relitivite states that matter cannot exisit in the same time and place... to do so would prove qunatum physics right and create a paradox loop which is what let the cybermen through ... see...


----------



## Moggy (Oct 26, 2006)

Well i tried to sit down and watch the second one in the early hours after running for fear of my own taste, and it was still so, so, SO bad.

I just can't understand how something that was so hyped and had so much put into it, supposedly making it more dark and serious, can have ended up like something i would SERIOUSLY expect to be on at 4 o'clock in the afternoon on bbc1 (bar the sex theme of the 2nd episode)?

It's actually made me wonder if the 3rd series of doctor who is going to end up being so dire!


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2006)

Moggy said:
			
		

> It's actually made me wonder if the 3rd series of doctor who is going to end up being so dire!


29th actually.....


----------



## Moggy (Oct 26, 2006)

Well i still consider the new doctor who completely apart from the old, so it's still the 3rd to me.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 26, 2006)

You are all officially nutboxes.

It's only been on a week, and I'm already slightly obsessed. I think I might like it better than Dr Who.

(Who am I calling a nutbox?)


----------



## Moggy (Oct 26, 2006)

zoooo said:
			
		

> (Who am I calling a nutbox?)



Yourself hopefully considering how utterly cheesy and unwatchable it is!!


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Oct 26, 2006)

let's face it

it's TOTAL RUBBISH and in certain lights could quite easily be viewed as an embarrassment - it had a sex mist, ffs

however it's probably going to be perfect stoner fodder for those of us that genuinely enjoy squirming around on the sofa monged out of our heads taking the piss out of all the shit that's on TV, so in that sense, it's Good

they just need to move it up to about 2am


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 26, 2006)

I honestly can't understand why most people on this thread didn't enjoy it. To each his own I suppose.


----------



## zoooo (Oct 26, 2006)

It's FUN!
Sex mist is hilarious!

Maybe you're watching it in the wrong frame of mind or summink.


----------



## Groucho (Oct 26, 2006)

zoooo said:
			
		

> It's FUN!
> Sex mist is hilarious!
> 
> Maybe you're watching it in the wrong frame of mind or summink.



Yep, I reckon.


----------



## lostexpectation (Oct 26, 2006)

russell t davis and subtle as a hammer yet again


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 26, 2006)

OK, here's the thing: what's good about Dr Who is that it's a _family _programme; it's for kids, but there's stuff there for adults to appreciate, too.  Like Shrek.  But take it away from that and make it only for adults and it loses too much; it becomes a pretty naff programme.  Instead of Shrek you've got OTT, the Tiswas spin off that made the same mistake.

Oh dear.


----------



## White Lotus (Oct 27, 2006)

pk said:
			
		

> Other than that, seems odd they did this series for adults, could have done a 7pm series without the adult themes and won themselves three times the ratings... the BBC are a weird bunch of nerds at times...


I think they've called this one badly wrong.  It may have done fine in the late-night post-pub Buffy/Prisoner Cell Block H slot.  

Instead, they ran the first two episodes as a double on BBC2 at 9pm ... _in half term week_.  Cue lots of kiddies who are Doctor Who fans begging to be allowed to stay up to watch.  Cue parents who have only seen the trailers going well okay then.  Cue same kiddies going "ewwww" at the date rape spray in Episode 1, then hiding behind the sofa at the sex in the loo and lesbian snogs in Episode 2.  Daleks never bothered them half as much!

Mine are 12, so no biggie.  But I can imagine parents of younger kids being a tad upset.  

And yes I know, parental responsibility and all that.  But that has to be based on information, and the Beeb's running a spin-off of a kids' programme in that timeslot with no real warning of the content, is a bit of a curve ball.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 27, 2006)

think they might've bin filming it 'in me yard' today, and i got a left over gel


----------



## Brockway (Oct 27, 2006)

Moggy said:
			
		

> I just can't understand how something that was so hyped and had so much put into it



Well that's the problem for a lot of people I reckon. The hype. I can image you sitting there arms folded, saying: "Come on then, impress me!" If you'd have just come across it one evening without knowing anything about it you might have thought it was an enjoyable piece of televisual fluff.


----------



## Brockway (Oct 27, 2006)

fudgefactorfive said:
			
		

> let's face it
> 
> it's TOTAL RUBBISH and in certain lights could quite easily be viewed as an embarrassment - it had a sex mist, ffs



Come on, this is camp sci-fi we're talking about here, not _Cathy Come Home _or _Boys From the Blackstuff_. I enjoyed it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 27, 2006)

Camped up sci-fi that knows it's being silly.

What's not to like?


----------



## Jim2k5 (Oct 27, 2006)

ive just watched the second episode and i have to say that i think the acting is dreadfull but it wont stop me from watching it every week


----------



## Loki (Oct 27, 2006)

Just watched the first episode and liked it. But then it was written by Doctor Who's head honcho script writer so no surprise there.

A few actors nicked from Doctor Who too, apart from Cap'n Jack. The new recruit, the woman PC, played the telepathic scullery maid in the Charles Dickens episode.


----------



## belboid (Oct 27, 2006)

that poor  Indira Varma tho, had to top herself in her last two series' - she'll be getting typecast!


----------



## wishface (Oct 27, 2006)

danny la rouge said:
			
		

> OK, here's the thing: what's good about Dr Who is that it's a _family _programme; it's for kids, but there's stuff there for adults to appreciate, too.  Like Shrek.  But take it away from that and make it only for adults and it loses too much; it becomes a pretty naff programme.  Instead of Shrek you've got OTT, the Tiswas spin off that made the same mistake.
> 
> Oh dear.


i entirely agree and would like to subscribve to your newsletter or pamphlet.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Oct 27, 2006)

Loki said:
			
		

> A few actors nicked from Doctor Who too, apart from Cap'n Jack. The new recruit, the woman PC, played the telepathic scullery maid in the Charles Dickens episode.



is it just me or is everything Russel T Davies does riddled with a sense of nepotism?

also, exactly what definition of "camp" are people using, especially the ones who thought Torchwood was "camp"? What was camp about it? Camp's a bit more nuanced than just meaning "silly and cheap" imo ....


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 27, 2006)

fudgefactorfive said:
			
		

> is it just me or is everything Russel T Davies does riddled with a sense of nepotism?
> 
> also, exactly what definition of "camp" are people using, especially the ones who thought Torchwood was "camp"? What was camp about it? Camp's a bit more nuanced than just meaning "silly and cheap" imo ....



_Camp (style), an ironic appreciation of that which might otherwise be considered outlandish or corny _

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp


----------



## gnoriac (Oct 27, 2006)

Found it seriously dull and derivative, just waiting for "oh, it's bigger on the inside than the outside", which fortunately, never happened.

It may all work out, Dr. Who in the earliest of days went from initially scary to incredibly dull and no doubt about to be chopped, when the Tardis landed on Skaro...


----------



## Roxy641 (Oct 29, 2006)

*Torchwood (tonight on BBC Three)*

Looking forward to the third episode tonight on
BBC Three (it will be broadcast on BBC-2 next
week). 

Roxy641


----------



## Brockway (Oct 29, 2006)

fudgefactorfive said:
			
		

> is it just me or is everything Russel T Davies does riddled with a sense of nepotism?



It's just you. 

Give us some examples of his nepotism. I'm curious.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Oct 29, 2006)

Brockway said:
			
		

> It's just you.
> 
> Give us some examples of his nepotism. I'm curious.



Apart from Psychic Maid turning up in Torchwood, there's Christopher Eccleston (Our Friends In The North -> Doctor Who), David Tennant (Casanova -> Doctor Who), David Tennant's partner Sophia Myles showing up as the Girl in the Fireplace (Doctor Who) ... maybe "riddled" was OTT  

But I ran this past my actor boyfriend and he said, don't be stupid, of course directors re-use actors they like, that's the way it's always been.


----------



## Groucho (Oct 29, 2006)

Tim Burton & Johnny Depp. 
David Lynch & Kyle MacLachlan.


----------



## White Lotus (Oct 29, 2006)

I thought nepotism was giving jobs to your relatives?


----------



## Maggot (Oct 29, 2006)

Great review by Charlie Brooker in the Guardian yesterday:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/columnists/story/0,,1932445,00.html


'In fact Scooby-Doo (more than, say, the X-Files or Buffy) is probably the show most analogous to Torchwood, in that both series revolve around a fresh-faced team of meddling kids tackling an ever-shifting carnival of monsters in a world of childlike simplicity. The Torchwood gang even have their own version of The Mystery Machine, although theirs is a spectacularly ugly SUV with two daft strips of throbbing LED lights either side of the windscreen whose sole purpose is to make the entire vehicle look outrageously silly - they might as well have stuck a big inflatable dick on the bonnet, to be honest.'


----------



## madamv (Oct 29, 2006)

Brockway said:
			
		

> Well that's the problem for a lot of people I reckon. The hype. I can image you sitting there arms folded, saying: "Come on then, impress me!" If you'd have just come across it one evening without knowing anything about it you might have thought it was an enjoyable piece of televisual fluff.


I have just watched eps 1 and 3 back to back.  (Didnt record 2 ) and I thought it was tv fluff.  Good expression btw!   I dont watch much tv and wanted to check this out after all the hype.

Not bad.  Except that Capt Jack reminds me too much of Tom Cruise.  May watch it again, maynt.  Depends if I have enough time.  It wont be one of my gotta watchits 

eta - oh and Owen is the image of that Pete off big brother


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 30, 2006)

I thought the third episode was much better than the first two. Next weeks looks good. Cyber stuff.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 30, 2006)

I enjoyed last night - a lot darker in tone.  Next week should be interesting...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 30, 2006)

Yeah, last night's was okay. But good god Owen man, get thee to Rada


----------



## belboid (Oct 30, 2006)

Most odd.  I thought last nights was pretty crap, daft storyline that didn't really make any sense.  Tho Gwen is doing well in the killing people stakes


----------



## agricola (Oct 30, 2006)

mindless but enjoyable


----------



## Hawkeye Pearce (Oct 30, 2006)

I think its ludicrous but is strangely enjoyable.  A lot of camp, cheesy moments but i think someone as clever as Davis knows exactly what he's doing with this.  I watched the first two episodes whilst high and it was perfect stoned viewing

Oh yeah and the welsh girl is very hot


----------



## Termite Man (Oct 30, 2006)

belboid said:
			
		

> Most odd.  I thought last nights was pretty crap, daft storyline that didn't really make any sense.  Tho Gwen is doing well in the killing people stakes




I agree , utter toss . And bringing cyberman into it as well is just shite . It's bad enough that Dr Who has to rely on recycling the same old "monsters" to spice things up but to have the spin off series do it as well is just pathetic and shows a lack of invention and creativity in the writers to be able to create a decent monster themselves !


----------



## Groucho (Oct 30, 2006)

Last night's was a tad dull. They could be much more imaginative.


----------



## Loki (Oct 30, 2006)

gnoriac said:
			
		

> Found it seriously dull and derivative


It is derived from and inhabits the same universe as Doctor Who so of course it's derivative.  I don't agree on the dull stakes, I watched episode 2 last nite (recorded) I thought it was quite alright.


----------



## Echo Base (Oct 31, 2006)

Give me Battlestar Galactica any day of the week over this....


----------



## wishface (Oct 31, 2006)

Echo Base said:
			
		

> Give me Battlestar Galactica any day of the week over this....


Agreed. BSG is far better than this drivel (ooh bloody hell, Jones the Steam is a bloody martian love!). That show actually has a story, acting, pacing, drama, pathos and quality written all over it. This is the usual beeb treatment of genre fiction - terrible.


----------



## andy2002 (Oct 31, 2006)

I'm disappointed with Torchwood so far. Episode three had real potential – weird piece of alien debris fucks with the lives of regular humans – but it was just dull from beginning to end. I thought Captain Jack was a brilliant creation when he was in Doctor Who, but he isn't nearly so much fun here.


----------



## llantwit (Oct 31, 2006)

I'm surprised there are so many who think it's just shit.

Jack is the worst thing about this, it's true. He's just a bit too perfect-looking and bit too shit as an actor to carry off the quirky alien thing. He might develop a bit - the more we get to know about his character the more dark bits seep through - he doesn't sleep, he might be lonely, etc (a bit of Angel thrown into the mix there maybe?). He doesn't have the oddness or acting range of the two doctors so far, though. He worked OK as a foil to Chrisopher Ecclestone and Billy, but can't carry the show on his own.

Thank god for Gwen, then! Who, it seems to me, is just great. A really good TV presence and lovely eye candy, and Welsh to boot. What more could one ask!?

I quite like Ianto - a bit 'men in black'. The other two in the team are a bit shite, although not offensive in any way (the Owen guy was pretty good in the adaptation of Bleak House - but maybe he's too much of a character actor to play it straight in a role like this).

The story-lines have been fair-enough value in my book - quite liked episode three. Some good X-Filesey stuff never goes amiss. And I do enjoy location spottingin Cardiff. It's quite good that it's based in a small british city - adds to a strange sense of crumminess and fallibility about the whole production (despite it's expensive aerial shots, etc.) that I think is really endearing.

On the whole - keep it coming.


----------



## Brockway (Oct 31, 2006)

llantwit said:
			
		

> I'm surprised there are so many who think it's just shit.
> 
> Jack is the worst thing about this, it's true. He's just a bit too perfect-looking and bit too shit as an actor to carry off the quirky alien thing. He might develop a bit - the more we get to know about his character the more dark bits seep through - he doesn't sleep, he might be lonely, etc (a bit of Angel thrown into the mix there maybe?). He doesn't have the oddness or acting range of the two doctors so far, though. He worked OK as a foil to Chrisopher Ecclestone and Billy, but can't carry the show on his own.
> 
> ...



Did you notice Splott got mentioned? And there was a _faux_-Cardiff accent in episode 3, the first in the series. How come everyone in Cardiff has got Valleys/Swansea accents? I like the prog though - it's just ludicrous fluffy nonsense.


----------



## llantwit (Oct 31, 2006)

Yeah, good to get the Splott joke in there!
The accents don't bother me, as everyone knows, the valleys accent is superior in tone and quality to the Cardiff one anyway.


----------



## Brockway (Oct 31, 2006)

llantwit said:
			
		

> Yeah, good to get the Splott joke in there!
> The accents don't bother me, as everyone knows, the valleys accent is superior in tone and quality to the Cardiff one anyway.



I agree - you lot speaks lovely.  

I went to the Torchwood premiere at the St David's Hotel (feck knows why they invited me) and it was a right decadent laugh. Free booze *all night *- must have cost them an absolute fortune. All the stars were there mind Billie Piper, David Tennent, Andi Peters. Marvellous.


----------



## llantwit (Oct 31, 2006)

Brockway said:
			
		

> I agree - you lot speaks lovely.
> 
> I went to the Torchwood premiere at the St David's Hotel (feck knows why they invited me) and it was a right decadent laugh. Free booze *all night *- must have cost them an absolute fortune. All the stars were there mind Billie Piper, David Tennent, Andi Peters. Marvellous.


I loves it I does.
Andi Peters!!!! Fucking  .
Are you a bit of Pontcanna glitterati on the sly then Brocks?


----------



## Brockway (Oct 31, 2006)

llantwit said:
			
		

> I loves it I does.
> Andi Peters!!!! Fucking  .
> Are you a bit of Pontcanna glitterati on the sly then Brocks?



No way bra'.  

Bit of gossip for you: Andi Peters, John Barrowman and Russell T Davies... all gay. Honest to God. Shocked I was.


----------



## llantwit (Oct 31, 2006)

Good God! What is the entertainment industry coming to?! I'm shocked. Shocked, I say. Next you'll be telling me that your own namesake Derek Brockway is a brokeback weatherman!


----------



## Brockway (Oct 31, 2006)

llantwit said:
			
		

> Good God! What is the entertainment industry coming to?! I'm shocked. Shocked, I say. Next you'll be telling me that your own namesake Derek Brockway is a brokeback weatherman!



Don't be ridiculous.

I was talking to one of the bouncers during the aftershow party saying it must be a pretty easy gig and he was saying it was just a question of stopping people taking any photos. He said that at the _Dr Who _premiere Robson Green had a few too many and got a bit lairy. More gossip for you there mate.


----------



## llantwit (Oct 31, 2006)

As long as he didn't fucking sing, I'm sure it was all OK.


----------



## Biffo (Nov 3, 2006)

Re Episode 3 - No wonder they couldn't find 'Burny' from Splott - they were looking in Riverside ffs!! 

Great to see the 'Diff on TV but wish there weren't so many valleys accents in the programme. Nothing against them but not many people in Cardiff have accents like this.

Plenty of holes in the plots. Acting isn't great. A bit camp and a bit funny. Light entertainment. I'll keep watching it just to see if my house is in it.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 3, 2006)

> but wish there weren't so many valleys accents in the programme


----------



## Belushi (Nov 3, 2006)

Saw it for the first time the other night and loved it.


----------



## Biffo (Nov 3, 2006)

Belushi said:
			
		

>



Well it reinforces the common misconception that everyone in Wales talks like Ruth Madoc in Hi-De-Hi.

Doesn't it then see?


----------



## Belushi (Nov 3, 2006)

Biffo said:
			
		

> Well it reinforces the common misconception that everyone in Wales talks like Ruth Madoc in Hi-De-Hi.
> 
> Doesn't it then see?



But whats the alternative? you're not seriously suggesting that we allow Gogs, or the horror that is the Kaaaardiff accent on the telly?


----------



## Biffo (Nov 3, 2006)

Belushi said:
			
		

> But whats the alternative? you're not seriously suggesting that we allow Gogs, or the horror that is the Kaaaardiff accent on the telly?



Definitley no gogs  

At least some Kaaaardiff accent would be tidy like.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 5, 2006)

Ooh - jolly good episode tonight  Best one so far. Let's hope they all continue like this.


----------



## andy2002 (Nov 5, 2006)

Fucking hell, it's a cyberwoman fighting a pteradactyl! Best episode so far by several miles.


----------



## Termite Man (Nov 6, 2006)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> Fucking hell, it's a cyberwoman fighting a pteradactyl! Best episode so far by several miles.




Not very hard for that to be the best episode . It's a shame they have had to resort to Dr Who monsters to make a good episode though


----------



## aqua (Nov 6, 2006)

but if they didn't make any link to Dr Who you'd be moaning about that too


----------



## llantwit (Nov 6, 2006)

Savage Henry said:
			
		

> Not very hard for that to be the best episode . It's a shame they have had to resort to Dr Who monsters to make a good episode though


It's a Dr Who spin off! What do you expect?! It'd be strange if there were no Dr Who monsters. 

Plus, it moves the developing plot along a little bit with reference to Torchwood Cardiff's relationship with Torchwood 1 (Canary Wharf) - poor Ianto Jones worked at T1 with his missus, and he escaped the cyber invasion. Still wanna know how Capt Jack came to work there, tho.


----------



## llantwit (Nov 6, 2006)

I thought it was the worst episode so far. Maybe cos it was all inside, and hardly any Cardiff-spotting opportunities were there to be had.


----------



## madzone (Nov 6, 2006)

Got bored half way through and went to bed  I've never understood why the cybermen are that scary


----------



## Philbc03 (Nov 6, 2006)

madzone said:
			
		

> Got bored half way through and went to bed  I've never understood why the cybermen are that scary



'Cos they're a wee bit hard to kill??


----------



## madzone (Nov 6, 2006)

Philbc03 said:
			
		

> 'Cos they're a wee bit hard to kill??


So's herpes but I wouldn't want to watch an hour of that


----------



## andy2002 (Nov 6, 2006)

Savage Henry said:
			
		

> It's a shame they have had to resort to Dr Who monsters to make a good episode though



I thought that was forgiveable – a decent spin on a Doctor Who monster. 

The Cyberwoman was really sexy too and could "upgrade" me anytime she likes.


----------



## rhod (Nov 6, 2006)

Surely the main source of cyber-scariness is that blank looking mask that they have. A cyberman with a human face just don't cut it.

Slight improvement over previous episodes, but whole thing still has an adolescent rather than an adult feel.


----------



## andy2002 (Nov 6, 2006)

By the way, was that a Krillitane I saw on the next week trailer?


----------



## Biffo (Nov 6, 2006)

I see a movie coming:

Jack = Tom Cruise
Gwen = C Zeta Jones
Ianto = Quentin Tarantino
Tosh = Lucy Liu
Owen = Willem Defoe


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 7, 2006)

Jack reminds me of the chap out of those bizarre Phones4U adverts.


----------



## T & P (Nov 7, 2006)

Biffo said:
			
		

> Ianto = Quentin Tarantino


  

I was thinking just the other day there is a bit of a resemblance there.


----------



## Supine (Nov 7, 2006)

E1 - good cardiff spotting, good story, camp(ish), light entertainment
E2 - good story then annoyance at the welsh chick saying sorry every 30 seconds. so much so I turned it off
E3 - on tomorrow on BBc2 I think. Or did I miss it last week?


----------



## Strumpet (Nov 7, 2006)

Hope it's the cyber episode tomorrow....missed it the other night.


----------



## Allan (Nov 8, 2006)

So at the end Lisa says "You always said you didn't mind what I looked like." I must be missing something, what was wrong with the way she looked before???


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 8, 2006)

Allan said:
			
		

> So at the end Lisa says "You always said you didn't mind what I looked like." I must be missing something, what was wrong with the way she looked before???



They must be rascists!!!1!

Or perhaps it's just one of those generic things that couples say to one another?


----------



## Biffo (Nov 8, 2006)

Stigmata said:
			
		

> They must be rascists!!!1!
> 
> Or perhaps it's just one of those generic things that couples say to one another?



Perhaps he said it subsequent to her semi-cyborgness....?


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 8, 2006)

Maybe it was a comment on the fact that she'd hacked the pizza girls head in two, looked completely different, was covered in blood and had a fucking great big cut around here head?

Jesus...

Best ep so far tho, fer sure.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 8, 2006)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Maybe it was a comment on the fact that she'd hacked the pizza girls head in two, looked completely different, was covered in blood and had a fucking great big cut around here head?
> 
> Jesus...



Don't be silly.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 8, 2006)

I thought he'd just been reassuring her that he wasn't just with her for her looks, as you do


----------



## J77 (Nov 9, 2006)

I'm liking Torchwood 

She needed to die - even if she did have some human in her, she still hacked up the pizza girl and was intent on cyberising the doctor earlier - even after being all nice.


----------



## dylanredefined (Nov 9, 2006)

Problems for torchwood now .If the pizza place wont deliver their going hungry .


----------



## aqua (Nov 13, 2006)

last nights was bollocks


----------



## Groucho (Nov 13, 2006)

aqua said:
			
		

> last nights was bollocks



I thought last night's was a good 'un!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 13, 2006)

I thought last nights was a good idea but could have been done better....


----------



## llantwit (Nov 13, 2006)

Captain Jack is fucking shit. It would be better without him, without a doubt. Maybe they can get rid of him by having him change identity a la Dr Who. I'd have the bloke who played Angel doing the part if I had my way.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Nov 13, 2006)

J77 said:
			
		

> I'm liking Torchwood
> 
> She needed to die - even if she did have some human in her, she still hacked up the pizza girl and was intent on cyberising the doctor earlier - even after being all nice.



After the programme I said to my boyfriend: if I'd been infested with cyborg machinery and was now hell-bent on enslaving the world, would you kill me? He immediately said "Yes". Not even the slightest hesitation


----------



## agricola (Nov 14, 2006)

Tonights was good, if blighted by a needless Captain Jack subplot.


----------



## binka (Nov 15, 2006)

i thought it was the best one yet (but that cgi is shocking) dont agree with agricola's point about the captain jack subplot. since its a spin off from dr who, and there will be some cross over in the next series, they are trying to fill in the details of captain jack's history (such as how he got back to earth from the gamestation after being left there)


----------



## Chuff (Nov 18, 2006)

thanks, this thread just reminded me there are two episodes I haven't seen yet, horry for internet downnloads


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 18, 2006)

Jack has the smug dial turned up to 11. He should die and regenerate into someone more suited to the role


----------



## onenameshelley (Nov 18, 2006)

erm...i had nightmares about the horrible scary fairys *hangs head in shame*


----------



## Groucho (Nov 18, 2006)

onenameshelley said:
			
		

> erm...i had nightmares about the horrible scary fairys *hangs head in shame*



See, I said it was a good un.


----------



## onenameshelley (Nov 18, 2006)

Groucho said:
			
		

> See, I said it was a good un.




 this is why i dont do horror films if a few poorly cgi'd fairies can scare me


----------



## Groucho (Nov 18, 2006)

onenameshelley said:
			
		

> this is why i dont do horror films if a few poorly cgi'd fairies can scare me



Nothing wrong with a good scare, but I suppose it is like anything. The fx wear off and one needs ever greater fixes.

I have more horrors in my dvd collection than any other genre. Not so much slasher horrors though - I find them a bit dull and formulaic. However, a good vampire tale, however formulaic, always does the trick.  

I suspect that vampires and werewolves will feature in Torchwood before long.


----------



## onenameshelley (Nov 18, 2006)

Groucho said:
			
		

> Nothing wrong with a good scare, but I suppose it is like anything. The fx wear off and one needs ever greater fixes.
> 
> I have more horrors in my dvd collection than any other genre. Not so much slasher horrors though - I find them a bit dull and formulaic. However, a good vampire tale, however formulaic, always does the trick.
> 
> I suspect that vampires and werewolves will feature in Torchwood before long.



my own brain has far scarier thoughts than anything hollywood can think up, but its only me that they scare 

ooh yeah a good bit of werewolf action would be good


----------



## Groucho (Nov 18, 2006)

onenameshelley said:
			
		

> my own brain has far scarier thoughts than anything hollywood can think up, but its only me that they scare
> 
> ooh yeah a good bit of werewolf action would be good



That's what a good horror does though...sets in train ones own imagination rather than laying it all on a plate. Blair Witch is good for that. But those with no imagination find it goes no-where.


----------



## onenameshelley (Nov 18, 2006)

Groucho said:
			
		

> That's what a good horror does though...sets in train ones own imagination rather than laying it all on a plate. Blair Witch is good for that. But those with no imagination find it goes no-where.




i just wanted wipe that stupid girls nose the whole way through i could almost hear myself saying "come on blow into the tissue, there thats better now". I was more scared by the last 3 minutes than the whole film, but then again, i know you get murdered if you go  into the woods which is why i dont go, see just like i know if you see a zombie, run like fuck cos they only shuffle innit.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Nov 20, 2006)

Anyone else felt like puking at Owen's "pseudo rape" method of coming on to a woman? I could barely stand to look at him before that, but now ... The sexuality in this series is fucked.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 20, 2006)

I think the Welsh tourist board ought to have a word with Russell Davies.


----------



## Strumpet (Nov 20, 2006)

Gggrr missed it. When's this repeated again??


----------



## Groucho (Nov 20, 2006)

onenameshelley said:
			
		

> i just wanted wipe that stupid girls nose the whole way through i could almost hear myself saying "come on blow into the tissue, there thats better now". I was more scared by the last 3 minutes than the whole film, but then again, i know you get murdered if you go  into the woods which is why i dont go, see just like i know if you see a zombie, run like fuck cos they only shuffle innit.



That's the challenge for horrors - to upset expectation. See a Dalek and run up the stairs = safe. As a kid you need these safe places. But then oops the Daleks are fuckin' flying! 

In The Grudge she hides under the covers but oops - it's under the covers _with _her!! 

I've lurked in woods but I've never been murdered.


----------



## Groucho (Nov 20, 2006)

fudgefactorfive said:
			
		

> Anyone else felt like puking at Owen's "pseudo rape" method of coming on to a woman? I could barely stand to look at him before that, but now ... The sexuality in this series is fucked.



Yes, a bit shit that.


----------



## White Lotus (Nov 20, 2006)

fudgefactorfive said:
			
		

> Anyone else felt like puking at Owen's "pseudo rape" method of coming on to a woman? I could barely stand to look at him before that, but now ...


Do you mean the bit in episode one where he was using a pheromone spray like a date rape drug?  Or is there something else?  (I have terrestrial, we get it on Wednesdays I think.)



> The sexuality in this series is fucked.


I agree.  Which is why I'm cross they've made an "adult" series but with plenty of trails pre-watershed to appeal to the Dr Who audience, ie kids.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Nov 20, 2006)

White Lotus said:
			
		

> Do you mean the bit in episode one where he was using a pheromone spray like a date rape drug?  Or is there something else?  (I have terrestrial, we get it on Wednesdays I think.)



OK, it's in this week's one, I saw it on BBC3 on Sunday, won't go into detail, but it's rank. Much worse than the date rape spray, which at least had the oh-so-amusing comedy value of enforced homosexuality.


----------



## T & P (Nov 21, 2006)

Judging by the preview next episode sees the return of the lesbo kisses


----------



## llantwit (Nov 21, 2006)

I liked this episode - one of the best so far. It was cool seeing the bloke off the milk advert as a slathering scary cannibal, and I liked the lovely bleak setting and the siege tension they built up. Could do without the 10 minutes of oh-so-amusing banter between the torchwood team at the start, though.
I quite like the fact the sexuality is fucked. It really does lend a darker edge, and the homo stuff is cool in my book - the more exploration/exposure to alternative sexualities we get in mainstream stuff like this the better (although I do think that Owen is a reppellant toad, and that Gwen is off her head to find him anything approaching attratcive).


----------



## Belushi (Nov 21, 2006)

Village full of Welsh Cannibals, fucking ace


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 21, 2006)

"It makes me happy" = 

Almost good enough to make up for the rest of the episode which was moderately pants. The underlying plot / character interacttions would put soap opera writiers to shame.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Nov 21, 2006)

llantwit said:
			
		

> I quite like the fact the sexuality is fucked. It really does lend a darker edge, and the homo stuff is cool in my book - the more exploration/exposure to alternative sexualities we get in mainstream stuff like this the better [...]



I agree, in theory, but the vehicle of Owen's secretive borderline rapes and your average lesbo voyeurism just aren't cutting it for me. 2/10, must try harder.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 24, 2006)

LOL the cannibal woman with the shotgun was played by a cousin of mine  

I didnt recognise her as I havent seen her since i was nipper, my brawd had to ring and tell me.


----------



## Griff (Nov 24, 2006)

Given it a go on several occasions now, and it's just rubbish.  

Was really looking forward to it, but it leaves me cold.

Shame.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 24, 2006)

Owen was definitely a borderline rapisto in the episode with the spray, but I didn't get that from the cannibal episode at all. They were both into it. Dirty buggers.

(Whyyyyy would she fancy Owen when Jack's there all on a plate for her. Silly mare.)


----------



## Augie March (Nov 26, 2006)

Just watched some of this last night for the first time.

Blimey it's a bit racy for a Dr Who spin-off isn't it?


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Nov 26, 2006)

zoooo said:
			
		

> Owen was definitely a borderline rapisto in the episode with the spray, but I didn't get that from the cannibal episode at all. They were both into it. Dirty buggers.
> 
> (Whyyyyy would she fancy Owen when Jack's there all on a plate for her. Silly mare.)



maybe he used the date-rape drug on her


----------



## andy2002 (Nov 26, 2006)

Griff said:
			
		

> Given it a go on several occasions now, and it's just rubbish.



I probably wouldn't put it that strongly, but it's been very disappointing. I kind of liked the first episode and the Cyberwoman ep was fun but everything else has just been a bit mediocre. The acting isn't much cop, most of the characters are unengaging and the storylines aren't much better. The idea to have a village-full of Welsh cannibals could have been brilliant - unfortunately, it was just one long homage to everything similar that's been created in film over the last 30 years (Texas Chainsaw to Wolf Creek).

I'll keep watching in hope it gets better.


----------



## gnoriac (Nov 26, 2006)

zoooo said:
			
		

> (Whyyyyy would she fancy Owen when Jack's there all on a plate for her. Silly mare.)



Trying to get him jealous?


----------



## FiFi (Nov 26, 2006)

zoooo said:
			
		

> Owen was definitely a borderline rapisto in the episode with the spray, but I didn't get that from the cannibal episode at all. They were both into it. Dirty buggers.
> 
> (Whyyyyy would she fancy Owen when Jack's there all on a plate for her. Silly mare.)



Well, she needed someone to talk to, and share things with.

And Jack hasn't pushed her up against a tree yet.


----------



## zoooo (Nov 26, 2006)

Oh gawd. The very thought...

I dribble.


(Good points though.)


----------



## T & P (Nov 26, 2006)

Well another dose of girl-on-girl action tonight...  

And Christina Cole looked very sexy in it.

But otherwise not the greatest episode I don't think...


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 27, 2006)

I know the internet password need to be in every episode and advert 12 times but why woudnt a top secret organisation like torchwood at least star it out like every other system in the world?


----------



## Error Gorilla (Nov 29, 2006)

It's really not very good is it? Still, the latest _Deadwood_ disc arrived in the post today, so I shall settle down and watch how good television should be. It isn't so much that _Torchwood_ is bad, more the continual BBC self-aggrandizement that surrounds it that really sticks in the craw.


----------



## agricola (Nov 29, 2006)

Its ace, though reading this thread suggests it is the sci-fi equivalent of Marmite.


----------



## elevendayempire (Nov 29, 2006)

It's... alright. It lacks the subtlety(!) of Russell T Davies's Doctor Who; characters are in the habit of stating what their emotional state is, often in horrible purple prose, rather than allowing the actors to carry it across to the audience with their, um, acting. Between that and the polished look of the thing, it's actually more reminiscent of an ITV drama than anything the Beeb puts out.

This coming Sunday's episode is pretty good (hooray for preview discs!); there's some interesting info on the whole Jack-should-be-dead-but-isn't thing, and there's a nicely twisted idea at its core. And I won't deny that seeing Tosh lez up in the last one was entertaining - but the writers really need to get their act together. Also, the morality of the series is a bit skew-wiff:

_"Torchwood. Above and beyond the United Nations. Protecting the world by distracting invading aliens from conquest by snogging them instead, while helping fairies deliver vigilante justice to elderly rapists and kiddie-fiddlers."_

SG


----------



## tangerinedream (Nov 29, 2006)

Bob_the_lost said:
			
		

> "It makes me happy" =
> 
> Almost good enough to make up for the rest of the episode which was moderately pants. The underlying plot / character interacttions would put soap opera writiers to shame.



I like that though, I've watched all of them on download over the last week or so and I like it precisely because it's a mixture between Corrie and Doctor Who with a bit of some racy C4 series lobbed in. I think there has been a few crap endings, but as daft telly goes - I like it a lot. It's been a bit more effective than some Doctor Who for me. I also like the dark edge, in that Gwen is a dodgy heroinne in that her sexual morals are questionable, Owen is a seriously wierd bloke who reminds me of someone in real life, Tosh is, well fairly normal apart from snogging aliens and the other guy is dealing with a whole cyberwoman wierdness thing that is an excellent metaphor for keeping a relationship going after you realise you don't actually love the person anymore or something like that. 

And then Jack. In love with a pensioner and with some really wierd stuff about being dead - there is something dark as burnt toast in his past for sure. 

Yay! crap telly! 

All I watch is Torchwood and QI - that's it


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 29, 2006)

Like it. But it's not a patch on the original Torchwood.

Ultraviolet, feat, another Jack. Davenport.

Deserved a second series at the very least.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 29, 2006)

Dr Gonzo said:
			
		

> Just watched some of this last night for the first time.
> 
> Blimey it's a bit racy for a Dr Who spin-off isn't it?



Indeedy. K9 and Company, eh?


----------



## rhod (Nov 30, 2006)

K.Y. and Company?


----------



## onenameshelley (Dec 2, 2006)

I still like it, its good sunday night telly i have to say i have a crush on Owen  then again i thought he was cute as Mr. Guppy too


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 7, 2006)

I enjoyed last nights episode, best yet IMO.

Does anyone know what the tune that was playing at the end was?  I recognize it, but can't quite put my finger on it....


----------



## Augie March (Dec 7, 2006)

beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

> I enjoyed last nights episode, best yet IMO.
> 
> Does anyone know what the tune that was playing at the end was?  I recognize it, but can't quite put my finger on it....




Gorecki by Lamb.  

Damn, they do use some good music in this show don't they?


----------



## J77 (Dec 7, 2006)

fudgefactorfive said:
			
		

> The sexuality in this series is fucked.


That's one of the main points, innit.

Jack's lived in the future where there is no longer sexuality - he sees our times as prehistoric, sexuality wise.

It's one of the cleverer bits about Torchwood, imo.


----------



## Erich Zann (Dec 7, 2006)

what the hell was all that about the stopwatch between Captain Cack and Ianto last night? Is it a gay thing?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 7, 2006)

reminds me of the doctor who books ...   every one is trying to be so  on edge sexual and dark  that the whole thing   feels turgid

i want my doctor who  and spin offs to be  freindly and crapish

i would have much perfered to see   a unit based spin off ....  you could  use a lot of the same charactors   but  be more routed in the doctor who mythos    

bring back the brig


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 8, 2006)

Torchwoods starting to piss me off a bit. It this big secret organisation yet every fucker knows about it including every cop in Cardiff except Gwen when before she joined. Lets pick the thickest cop in town to protect the earth.


----------



## Augie March (Dec 8, 2006)

I think the crab people are behind all the ambigious sexuality going on in Torchwood...


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Dec 8, 2006)

Erich Zann said:
			
		

> what the hell was all that about the stopwatch between Captain Cack and Ianto last night? Is it a gay thing?



.... I think it may well be.


----------



## zoooo (Dec 8, 2006)

It was the gayest gay thing evah.

I just wish they'd _show_ the gayest gay things - just like they show the lesbianic lesbian things EVERY week.

Tut.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Dec 10, 2006)

J77 said:
			
		

> That's one of the main points, innit.
> 
> Jack's lived in the future where there is no longer sexuality - he sees our times as prehistoric, sexuality wise.
> 
> It's one of the cleverer bits about Torchwood, imo.



aye, I like the post-gay stuff, but when I said sexuality I didn't mean sexual orientation or polarity. I meant sexuality - what people find sexy, how they are sexy. It's all being rammed up against trees, men telling women what they really want, aggressive lesbians telling women what they really want and then being hyperspaced into a stellar core, snatched kisses from the emotionally vulnerable ... Male sexuality towards women is all about domination and taking control. Female sexuality towards men is all coyness and pining. Female to female is yer standard tragic vamp who seduces heteroid women with devastating effects and then self-destructs. Male sexuality towards men is all off-screen nudging and winking, it's all lip service and no trousers. 

2/10, must try harder.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 11, 2006)

They are trying to hard already just comes across as totally contrived bollocks. Theres been couple of times where its worked the rest of the time it just seems tagged on for the sake of reminding the viewer that its an edgy series and not just aliens.


----------



## Reno (Dec 11, 2006)

fudgefactorfive said:
			
		

> aye, I like the post-gay stuff, but when I said sexuality I didn't mean sexual orientation or polarity. I meant sexuality - what people find sexy, how they are sexy. It's all being rammed up against trees, men telling women what they really want, aggressive lesbians telling women what they really want and then being hyperspaced into a stellar core, snatched kisses from the emotionally vulnerable ... Male sexuality towards women is all about domination and taking control. Female sexuality towards men is all coyness and pining. Female to female is yer standard tragic vamp who seduces heteroid women with devastating effects and then self-destructs. Male sexuality towards men is all off-screen nudging and winking, it's all lip service and no trousers.
> 
> 2/10, must try harder.



Doesn't help that this has the least sexy cast since Last Of The Summer Wine and that Captain Jack is about as charismatic as a shop window dummy.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Dec 11, 2006)

I liked this week's episode. Disapointing lack of aliens yet again, but still good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 11, 2006)

Shippou-Chan said:
			
		

> reminds me of the doctor who books ...   every one is trying to be so  on edge sexual and dark  that the whole thing   feels turgid
> 
> i want my doctor who  and spin offs to be  freindly and crapish
> 
> ...




Harumph

Dr.Who books are brilliant, especially the seventh doctors adventures concerning the land of fiction.
And if you actually watch Sylvester Mcoys adventures you'll see that he was very on edge and dark. The one where he goes to the planet where happiness is mandatory and sadness punishable by death is a case in point.


----------



## aqua (Dec 11, 2006)

last nights was shit


----------



## Biffo (Dec 11, 2006)

aqua said:
			
		

> last nights was shit



By far and away the worst. VERY BBC Wales-type low quality fair. Thought last week's with Suzie was q good though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 11, 2006)

Last nights was.....odd.  I just didn't see the point of it really


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Dec 11, 2006)

I really liked last night.

It was a little like the Dr. Who episode with the absorbalof.  Same kind of thing.  Quite enjoyed it.  Boyfriend didn't like the ending.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Dec 11, 2006)

FabricLiveBaby! said:
			
		

> I really liked last night.
> 
> It was a little like the Dr. Who episode with the absorbalof.  Same kind of thing.  Quite enjoyed it.  Boyfriend didn't like the ending.



same actor - similar character - same storytelling technique. Total rip-off.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Dec 11, 2006)

was it the same actor????

I mentioned it to Dr Who nerd of a boyfreind but he said it was a different bloke.

::Wanders off into google::


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Dec 11, 2006)

Aye ... wasn't it Paul Chequer from Sinchronicity? Can't find a cast list for the Torchwood ep though.


----------



## Augie March (Dec 11, 2006)

Wasn't he in that As If show that used to be on C4?

Best ep of Torchwood so far IMO.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Dec 11, 2006)

I think I'm wrong - the Doctor Who guy was a different actor. You can see why I got them mixed up though ...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 11, 2006)

FabricLiveBaby! said:
			
		

> IIt was a little like the Dr. Who episode with the absorbalof


That was the worst episode of the entire series


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 11, 2006)

Yeah I was thinking that it was a rip off of the absorbaloff episode and that the ending was utter shit. They have already recycled a couple of doctor who scripts and added swearing and sex. The first episode especially.


----------



## onenameshelley (Dec 11, 2006)

i liked it but i quite like positive endings these days. Still a rampaging face eating alien is probably needed at this point.


----------



## pk (Dec 11, 2006)

It was almost identical to that Dr Who one where the guy retraces his movements.

And it was shite too - no aliens.

He was the actor who was dating the eternally moody face-like-a-slapped-arse minger Sooz in that student drama "As If".


----------



## wishface (Dec 12, 2006)

This is still the worst show on telly. 

It's not even as good as Lexx!


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Dec 12, 2006)

wishface said:
			
		

> It's not even as good as Lexx!




LEXX WAS THE BEST!


----------



## Jim2k5 (Dec 12, 2006)

watched this again on sunday, had the ep with the welsh blode from grownups in it. and my god, i thought it might get better, if anything i think it has to have gotten worse.


----------



## gnoriac (Dec 13, 2006)

The cannibals one's been the best so far imho, but even then it wasn't great. very disappointed so far.


----------



## gnoriac (Dec 13, 2006)

CNT36 said:
			
		

> They have already recycled a couple of doctor who scripts and added swearing and sex.



Here's hoping they rip off the Sound of Music at some stage.


----------



## agricola (Dec 17, 2006)

That was absolutely appalling, by far the worst in the series.  What was the story again?


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Dec 17, 2006)

i actually felt physically sick


----------



## Error Gorilla (Dec 18, 2006)

Why would the 1950s refugees be impressed by a pair of automatic doors at the local Tesco, but seemingly not when they'd presumably been driven from the remote airfield to the urban wonders of the capital of Wales in an adapted Range Rover covered in more tacky neon lights and plasma screens and bleeding edge technology than you could point a startled Woodbine-clamping hand at? 

And apparently they didn't raise an eyebrow at the alien wonders of the Torchwood headquarters, but were jitter-bugging down the aisles at the opportunity purchase a twelve pack of mini Milky Ways and liquid mascara. Thank fuck Gwen didn't produce her reward card at the till or they'd have passed out at the shock.

Also, where has Gwen's chump of a boyfriend been of late? Why is the boring admin guy - you know, the one that nearly killed them all through the small matter of being so staggeringly stupid he thought bringing a Cyberwoman into their lair and then pointed a gun at his boss (the same boss who it was subsequently hinted he's having sex with) was a good idea - still employed there when he's clearly ever so slightly untrustworthy? You'd assume that in order to be part of an ultra-secretive underground organisation operating above and beyond the reach of democracy and the law there'd by a little more onus on recruiting staff that aren't staggeringly stupid and demonstrate piss poor judgement at nearly every opportunity.


----------



## belboid (Dec 18, 2006)

You missed one central question out there.

Why the fuck would anyone wany to shag the charmless dumboy Owen? Let alone fall madly in love with him in a couple of days.


----------



## dylanredefined (Dec 18, 2006)

He is a doctor the white coat covers up an awful lot of personality flaws  .


----------



## belboid (Dec 18, 2006)

Error Gorilla said:
			
		

> Why would the 1950s refugees be impressed by a pair of automatic doors at the local Tesco, but seemingly not when they'd presumably been driven from the remote airfield to the urban wonders of the capital of Wales in an adapted Range Rover covered in more tacky neon lights and plasma screens and bleeding edge technology than you could point a startled Woodbine-clamping hand at?


actually, i think that is an almost believable bit.  On first arrival they wouldnt be able to comprehend what all the flashing crap was in the car (and it is just a car, even if souped up a bit), so it would probably just be ignored.  But doors that just _open_??  That's spooky man.  And mundane enough to be the conduit for freaking out.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Dec 18, 2006)

That episode was crap, i didn't bother for most of it and just fast forwarded to see if anything did happen.

It didn't


----------



## Belushi (Dec 18, 2006)

I've rather enjoyed the last couple of episodes, esp. last weeks witht he ghost fella.


----------



## fudgefactorfive (Dec 26, 2006)

"something's coming ... from out there, in the darkness"

yes, it's my semi-digested dinner


----------



## Ceej (Dec 27, 2006)

Taped last weeks' Torchwood...just watched it - blatant, total nutter shameless rip-off of Fight Club ..... 

Shameful - and sad, as I've pretty much enjoyed all the others. Bah.


----------



## belboid (Dec 28, 2006)

slightly better last night.  lets jsut hope that the season finale see's Owen & Tosh (has there ever been a more appropriate name?) brutally slain, and Ianto held hostatge by malicious aliens who will enjoy chaining him up and prodding him every now and again with a very big stick, just to punish him for being the worst actor in the world.  Meanwhile Jack undertakes an  end of year performance review and sends gwen off to do her actual job of police liason rather than being such an appaling investigator.

Then, they only need to find some half decent scriptwriters whose idea of 'adult' drama is kiddy crap with a bit of swearing and (very very) bad sex thrown in.


----------



## Groucho (Dec 28, 2006)

belboid said:
			
		

> slightly better last night.  lets jsut hope that the season finale see's Owen & Tosh (has there ever been a more appropriate name?) brutally slain, and Ianto held hostatge by malicious aliens who will enjoy chaining him up and prodding him every now and again with a very big stick, just to punish him for being the worst actor in the world.  Meanwhile Jack undertakes an  end of year performance review and sends gwen off to do her actual job of police liason rather than being such an appaling investigator.
> 
> Then, they only need to find some half decent scriptwriters whose idea of 'adult' drama is kiddy crap with a bit of swearing and (very very) bad sex thrown in.



So you're a bit of a fan then?


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 28, 2006)

Spoilers kinda speculation

In the next episode Jack meets Jack but is it Jack or is it someone whose identity he knicked? Because RTD is supposed to be against multi doctor episodes(5 doctors, 2 doctors etc) so wouldnt it be a bit stupid having a mutli jack episode?


----------



## belboid (Dec 28, 2006)

Groucho said:
			
		

> So you're a bit of a fan then?


still watching arent i?  it could just be so much better


----------



## Groucho (Dec 28, 2006)

belboid said:
			
		

> still watching arent i?  it could just be so much better



Same here. I watch it hoping for good things but it never quite fullfills its potential.


----------



## agricola (Jan 1, 2007)

Well, it was quite good until the two hundred foot high and suspiciously lightfooted CGI creature came along...


----------



## T & P (Jan 1, 2007)

It's certainly made up for the last few extra-shit episodes.

So where is he gone then? Is this linked to his original appearance in Dr Who or is it a fresh appearance at a future episode I wonder...


----------



## LilMissHissyFit (Jan 1, 2007)

Of course its linked to Dr who....  lets hope he see something less camp than last time ( riding a ricket like a bucking bronco)


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 2, 2007)

Thought Jack kissing Jack was a bit shit. Died in a burning plane shouldn't he be in a cell somewhere? I think the tardis noise and the fact the doctors hand was glowing and such made a link to doctor who pretty obvious.


----------



## andy2002 (Jan 2, 2007)

A typical scene in Torchwood...

INTERIOR: TORCHWOOD HQ, 'THE HUB'. GWEN, TOSH AND OWEN ARE HARD AT WORK LOOKING AT COMPUTER MONITORS, ALIEN RELICS AND SHIT. ENTER IANTO.

GWEN: Hi Ianto, what have you been fucking doing?

IANTO: Shagging Jack.

OWEN: I bet you love the look on his face when he comes, don't you?

IANTO: Fuck yeah.

(Enter Jack)

JACK: Are you all fucking talking about me behind my fucking back.

OWEN: So what if we fucking are? What are you going to do fucking about it?

JACK: Calm the fuck down, Owen, you're overreacting. Again.

(Owen pulls out a gun)

OWEN: Shut up Jack, or I'll shoot you in the fucking head.

GWEN: Owen, even though you're a really good shag, I don't think you should be doing this. 

TOSH: Is now a good time to point out that I might be a lesbian?

(Owen shoots Jack in the head. Jack falls on the floor, seemingly dead)

IANTO: Fuck, he's killed Jack.

TOSH, GWEN AND IANTO: You bastard!

(Tosh is looking intently at a computer monitor)

TOSH: Oh no, the fucking rift is opening and disgorging a load of unconvincing CGI aliens/monsters/demons.

JACK: Shit, better let me see that.

GWEN: But aren't you dead?

JACK: Am I fuck.

OWEN: Anyone fancy a shag?

EVERYONE: Yes please!

THE END


----------



## elevendayempire (Jan 2, 2007)

LilMissHissyFit said:
			
		

> Of course its linked to Dr who....


In fairness, my flatmate likes both Who and Torchwood, and never twigged that the one is a spin-off of the other. Be quite entertaining to see what he'd make of the final scene...

SG


----------



## janeb (Jan 2, 2007)

Actually, I was very excited when the Dr's hand started to glow and we heard the sound of the tardis - Jack's back to Dr Who, which is as it should be.  Torchwood was ok, but I'd easily bin it if the payback was Jack in Dr Who as a regularish character


----------



## llantwit (Jan 2, 2007)

Oh! It's the Dr's hand is it? I didn't get that. Why is it his hand, btw? Did I forget an episode of Dr Who where the dr lost his hand?


----------



## cybertect (Jan 2, 2007)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> A typical scene in Torchwood...
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...



  

The logic of the plot was seriously threadbare in places last night.

Tosh needs a 'more permanent' way of writing a message for 60+ years in the future.

Message 1: Written in ink, so she decides to use an Polaroid photo of it instead, then sticks that into a gas meter cupboard outside.

Message 2: Written in pencil. Not permanent enough, so she writes in blood, then sticks it into a coffee tin in a cupboard.

Polaroids and blood are more permanent than ink and pencil?  

Sorry, what was Jack snogging Jack all about? Maybe there were no Messerschmidts and the good Captain's underlings actually shot him down the day after?

How did opening the rift bring Gwen's boyfriend back from the dead? He hadn't fallen through time, he'd been stabbed.

So much else. Disappointed.


----------



## cybertect (Jan 2, 2007)

llantwit said:
			
		

> Oh! It's the Dr's hand is it? I didn't get that. Why is it his hand, btw? Did I forget an episode of Dr Who where the dr lost his hand?



The first Xmas special with David Tennant [?]


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 2, 2007)

llantwit said:
			
		

> Oh! It's the Dr's hand is it? I didn't get that. Why is it his hand, btw? Did I forget an episode of Dr Who where the dr lost his hand?



2005 Crimbo special where the Sycorax (sp?) leader chopped off Tennant's hand and (as he was still regenerating) Tennant grew a new one.


----------



## T & P (Jan 2, 2007)

elevendayempire said:
			
		

> In fairness, my flatmate likes both Who and Torchwood, and never twigged that the one is a spin-off of the other. Be quite entertaining to see what he'd make of the final scene...
> 
> SG


 Actually I've known all along it was linked to Dr Who. LilMissHissyFit didn't quite understand what I was asking. Was just wondering whether Jack's departure related to the appearance he made in Dr Who last season (the 2WW two-parter) or to a fresh appearance in the forthcoming series. Never mind, it's quite inconsequential anyway.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 2, 2007)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> GWEN: Hi Ianto, what have you been fucking doing?
> 
> IANTO: Shagging Jack.
> 
> ...



I'm gonna be stiff as a board for the rest of the day now!


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 3, 2007)

If Abaddon was destroyed in the Torchwood episode, how does he reappear a couple of thousands of years later and light years away to be destroyed by the Doctor?


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 3, 2007)

Nah it was a different thing..... one was only known as "the beast"







The other is Abaddon






interestingly there is an article about Abaddon in Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon


----------



## gnoriac (Jan 3, 2007)

Urrgggh, the bit where Jack did his Christ risen from the dead bit and hugged Owen "I forgive you", most-cringeworthy thing in the entire series.


----------



## madzone (Jan 3, 2007)

Well, I haven't a fucking clue what all that was about  

Why was jack snogging that bloke in the dancehall? Was it him? Why did he kiss Ianto.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 3, 2007)

I thought the BBC skipped the pages in the history books regarding homosexuality in the 1940's with that ep.  Especially in the army.


----------



## mikeinworthing (Jan 3, 2007)

I couldn’t give a shit about the storylines – it was a bit of escapism – and I am in love! 






*heart smile x 1,000,000*


----------



## madzone (Jan 4, 2007)

FabricLiveBaby! said:
			
		

> I thought the BBC skipped the pages in the history books regarding homosexuality in the 1940's with that ep.  Especially in the army.


Innit   Everyone standing round, smiling sweetly. They'd have had their heads kicked in within 2 minutes.


----------



## Stigmata (Jan 4, 2007)

madzone said:
			
		

> Innit   Everyone standing round, smiling sweetly. They'd have had their heads kicked in within 2 minutes.



Or everyone would have pissed themselves at the spectacle. Maybe they just thought it was typical Yank sexual deviance.


----------



## likesfish (Jan 4, 2007)

its the RAF fairly gay at the best of times  
 not exactly a military force in any excepted terms


----------



## FiFi (Jan 4, 2007)

likesfish said:
			
		

> its the RAF fairly gay at the best of times
> not exactly a military force in any excepted terms



Typical ex-squaddie!  

Maybe I should check with your Mother to see if there are any piccies of you in your Air cadets uniform still arround.


----------



## madzone (Jan 4, 2007)

But whyyyyyyy?! Why was he snogging himself/the bloke whose identity he pinched?   A minute before he was telling him to go shag the blonde woman (who I assumed was the elderly woman in the fairy episode)


----------



## zoooo (Jan 5, 2007)

He just stole his name. it wasn't him. 

Our Jack liked other Jack, but knew he was going to die the next day, so told him to make the most of his last night - with his girlfriend. But other Jack had already fallen in love with our Jack instead, 'cause, who wouldn't? So he snogged him instead.

There.


----------



## zoooo (Jan 5, 2007)

madzone said:
			
		

> Well, I haven't a fucking clue what all that was about
> 
> Why was jack snogging that bloke in the dancehall? Was it him? Why did he kiss Ianto.



If you watched carefully a few episodes ago, they suggested that Jack and Ianto have the odd shag now and again.


----------



## Larry O'Hara (Jan 5, 2007)

zoooo said:
			
		

> He just stole his name. it wasn't him.
> 
> Our Jack liked other Jack, but knew he was going to die the next day, so told him to make the most of his last night - with his girlfriend. But other Jack had already fallen in love with our Jack instead, 'cause, who wouldn't? So he snogged him instead.
> 
> There.



entertaining as this was, in the context of the (homophobic) time they were in, I found this scene lacking credibility, indeed it made me laugh....Not seen much Torchwood, but this made it seem very PC.


----------



## pk (Jan 5, 2007)

mikeinworthing said:
			
		

> I couldnt give a shit about the storylines  it was a bit of escapism  and I am in love!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aye, she's a cutie.

only a matter of time before she fucks off to Hollywood, stars in a few crap films with Sean Connery, then marries some faded, aged, and loaded film actor...


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 10, 2008)

is back next Wednesday


----------



## andy2002 (Jan 10, 2008)

FabricLiveBaby! said:
			
		

> is back next Wednesday



And apparently much improved – lighter in tone, not as much clumsily inserted swearing/sex. Believe it when I see it...


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 10, 2008)

yeah,  they're also editing a pre watershed version too.


----------



## zog (Jan 10, 2008)

mikeinworthing said:
			
		

> I couldn’t give a shit about the storylines – it was a bit of escapism – and I am in love!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




She lives 2 doors down from my girlfriend. Nice woman, down to earth and allways stops for a chat.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 10, 2008)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> *And apparently much improved – lighter in tone, not as much clumsily inserted swearing/sex*. Believe it when I see it...


 
*crosses fingers*


----------



## Stigmata (Jan 10, 2008)

I hope it's still laughable. I wouldn't like it as much if it actually became good.


----------



## zoooo (Jan 10, 2008)

I've seen some clips (on the official site) and it looks fantastic.

Still silly, more funny, and less dark, maybe.
I cannot wait!


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 16, 2008)

Tune in tonight guys!  9pm BBC 1 or 2 ... can't remember!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 16, 2008)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> And apparently much improved – lighter in tone, not as much clumsily inserted swearing/sex. Believe it when I see it...


 
But watchable? I really tried to like Torchwood but I gave up after _Cyberwoman. _There's only so much one can take.


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 16, 2008)

I've never watched Torchwood before but will be watching it tonight because of James Marsters.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 16, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:
			
		

> But watchable? I really tried to like Torchwood but I gave up after _Cyberwoman. _There's only so much one can take.





Cyberwoman was rubbish.  The one with the evil faries scared the shit out of me.


----------



## zoooo (Jan 16, 2008)

Cyberwoman was hilarious!

Didn't she fight a pteradactyl??

Brilliant.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 16, 2008)

Think any of them will have taken acting lessons in the interim?

I loved jack in Dr Who, but in Torchwood he seemed so fake, well, his fakeness didn't fit in as well as it does in Dr Who. It marred that ep of Dr Who with him in it last season. 

We will be watching tonight though, coz I'd still do him.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jan 16, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:
			
		

> We will be watching tonight though, coz I'd still do him.


 
As he is now or as the Face of Bo?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 16, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> I've never watched Torchwood before but will be watching it tonight because of James Marsters.



Yes - and I believe he snogs Capt. Jack. A situation which I have a feeling will be filling my sordid fantasies for a few nights   

Five minutes to go. Tee hee!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2008)

Yay


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 16, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:
			
		

> Yes - and I believe he snogs Capt. Jack. A situation which I have a feeling will be filling my sordid fantasies for a few nights
> 
> Five minutes to go. Tee hee!



Mmmm. He's still got it.

It's making me a bit sad though, it's almost like having a little extra slice of Buffy


----------



## aqua (Jan 16, 2008)

what a big pile of bollocks this is


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 16, 2008)

That was very silly.

And, as such, fantastic 

I love Torchwood


----------



## mentalchik (Jan 16, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> Mmmm. He's still got it.
> 
> It's making me a bit sad though, it's almost like having a little extra slice of Buffy




 



kinda gave me a squirmy moment tho...................

TW is a bit pants but entertaining pants !


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 16, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

> That was very silly.
> 
> And, as such, fantastic
> 
> I love Torchwood



Me too  

CAPT. JAAAAACKKK - love 'im!


----------



## T & P (Jan 16, 2008)

Where's the swearing gone?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 16, 2008)

OK, I enjoyed it muchly.

I was getting a bit too excited when they were having that raunchy snog.

Then I got even more excited at the thought of Jack and Ianto 

I've said too much.


----------



## zoooo (Jan 16, 2008)

Loved it so so much!

I'm glad Spike's back for another one.
And that Jack's going to have a romance instead of just a shag with lovely old Ianto.


----------



## andy2002 (Jan 17, 2008)

A considerable improvement on the first series but still only about as good as an average Doctor Who ep. Loved the blowfish at the start, the "Bloody Torchwood" line, James Marsters and the references to Buffy. Not so arsed with the rest of it - apart from Jack, the characters are still as dull as cardboard.


----------



## Andy the Don (Jan 17, 2008)

I like Torchwood it's a load of old hocum & as camp as a scouting jamboree. But why the fuck if you were an alien would you land in fucking Cardiff. You would probably have the shit beaten out of you for not being from Cardiff within 5 minutes of arriving through the rift.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 17, 2008)

poor show. It was good when spike lobbed that bloke off the multisroty though. That and the cheesy barfight were win


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 17, 2008)

Torchwood is pants. I don't think much of Barrowman either: he's one of the most unconvincing actors that I've ever had the misfortune to watch.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 17, 2008)

nino_savatte said:
			
		

> Torchwood is pants. I don't think much of Barrowman either: he's one of the most unconvincing actors that I've ever had the misfortune to watch.



I'm coming round to get you   

Actually I've seen him a couple of times on stage in musicals and he seems to be one of those actors who are much better and more suited to supporting roles rather than leading roles which is why I think he is better in "Dr Who" than in "Torchwood"

I'd still shag him though


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 17, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:
			
		

> I'm coming round to get you
> 
> Actually I've seen him a couple of times on stage in musicals and he seems to be one of those actors who are much better and more suited to supporting roles rather than leading roles which is why I think he is better in "Dr Who" than in "Torchwood"
> 
> I'd still shag him though



I agree with you and I think he's more of a _musical_ actor tbh.

He'll only shag you if you're gay.


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 17, 2008)

Is Ianto the potato-head guy?

I agree that the human Torchwoody types are all well boring. Never seen it before, but they failed to impress last night. I'll still be watching next week, just for moar Spike.


----------



## gnoriac (Jan 17, 2008)

Not impressed with the "improved" version, it still lacks any real darkness or mystery, the producers seem to care more about making it glossy - guns, cars, flirting, etc. The average Dr Who episode is way more gripping - there's nothing in Torchwood that'd have yer average 5 year old hiding behind the sofa. 

The only thing remotely more "adult" about it is Captain Jack snogging all the blokes and when you've seen it once...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 17, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> Is Ianto the potato-head guy?
> 
> I agree that the human Torchwoody types are all well boring. Never seen it before, but they failed to impress last night. I'll still be watching next week, just for moar Spike.




During the bar fight scene I geekishly compared the sex/fight dynamic to that Buffy scene where Spike and Buffy fight/fuck


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 17, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> Is Ianto the potato-head guy?
> 
> I agree that the human Torchwoody types are all well boring. Never seen it before, but they failed to impress last night. I'll still be watching next week, just for moar Spike.



Yeah - and the other bloke, Owen, looks like King of the Frogmen.

I've just been to the Torchwood homepage and have set a picture of John Barrowman and James Marsters as my screen background. 

I feel a middle aged ladys crush coming on!


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 17, 2008)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/torchwood/sites/jobs/pages/jobs.shtml

OOOH any freelancers fancy working on the series??


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 17, 2008)

DotCommunist said:
			
		

> During the bar fight scene I geekishly compared the sex/fight dynamic to that Buffy scene where Spike and Buffy fight/fuck



There was quite a lot of Buffy parallels, I thought. The opening where the team are chasing down a creature while their leader is AWOL, then have to deal with him coming back, was very like the Scoobies at the start of series 3 (although resolved much quicker). There were some more but I can't remember them now because all I can think about is the Spike and Buffy fight/fuck


----------



## andy2002 (Jan 17, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> There were some more but I can't remember them now because all I can think about is the Spike and Buffy fight/fuck



The way James Marsters' said "Thirsty now" was a nod to the episode where a vampire Willow from an alternate universe says "Bored now" (an oft quoted line by Buffy fans, I believe), and I smiled when he said that the team could "do with a blonde".


----------



## innit (Jan 17, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

> That was very silly.
> 
> And, as such, fantastic
> 
> I love Torchwood


Yay, I love everything about it especially the crap bits


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 17, 2008)

FabricLiveBaby! said:
			
		

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/torchwood/sites/jobs/pages/jobs.shtml
> 
> OOOH any freelancers fancy working on the series??







			
				Torchwood website said:
			
		

> There are no real jobs available as Torchwood is fictional. We apologise if you thought this was the case.



Oh.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 17, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
			
		

> Oh.


init!

i see them about all the time and the doctor who technical and catering crew are camped out in nifty trucks down sophia gardens atm


----------



## janeb (Jan 17, 2008)

gnoriac said:
			
		

> The only thing remotely more "adult" about it is Captain Jack snogging all the blokes and when you've seen it once...



......you want to see it again please


----------



## zoooo (Jan 17, 2008)

Hee!

I wish I'd taped it now...
Although. bbc iplayer?


----------



## Belushi (Jan 17, 2008)

Terrible show, I only watch it cos its likely to be the only Welsh Science Fiction show ever made  

And one of my cousins played a cannibal in the last series


----------



## greenfield (Jan 17, 2008)

Oh I loved the cannibal episode!

Who are the _real _monsters, eh?  


Torchwood really is so bad it's great.


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 17, 2008)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> The way James Marsters' said "Thirsty now" was a nod to the episode where a vampire Willow from an alternate universe says "Bored now" (an oft quoted line by Buffy fans, I believe), and I smiled when he said that the team could "do with a blonde".



Yes and yes! Well remembered 

*cleans mind*


----------



## Belushi (Jan 17, 2008)

I like all the overhead, nightime shots trying to make Cardiff look like LA


----------



## greenfield (Jan 17, 2008)

And the bits where Jack stands on top of buildings for no reason at all!


----------



## pigtails (Jan 17, 2008)

greenfield said:
			
		

> And the bits where Jack stands on top of buildings for no reason at all!


we all do that in cardiff
I'm typing this from the top of the senedd!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 17, 2008)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> The way James Marsters' said "Thirsty now" was a nod to the episode where a vampire Willow from an alternate universe says "Bored now" (an oft quoted line by Buffy fans, I believe), and I smiled when he said that the team could "do with a blonde".




Vampire willow is FIT


----------



## gnoriac (Jan 17, 2008)

pigtails said:
			
		

> we all do that in cardiff
> I'm typing this from the top of the senedd!


Do you really have a rift in time & space there? Must make getting back from the pub after a skinful rather difficult.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 17, 2008)

gnoriac said:
			
		

> Do you really have a rift in time & space there? Must make getting back from the pub after a skinful rather difficult.




If it's a rift in space time sometimes you met get home drunk before you've even left and beat yourself up in a drunken rage


----------



## pigtails (Jan 17, 2008)

gnoriac said:
			
		

> Do you really have a rift in time & space there? Must make getting back from the pub after a skinful rather difficult.



Not sure but the city centre on a saturday night is full of things that aren't quite human!


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jan 17, 2008)

I rather fancy Captain Jack/John Barrowman

Anyone else?


----------



## Belushi (Jan 17, 2008)

pigtails said:
			
		

> Not sure but the city centre on a saturday night is full of things that aren't quite human!



Oi, just 'cos were from the Valleys


----------



## zoooo (Jan 17, 2008)

Mrs Miggins said:
			
		

> I rather fancy Captain Jack/John Barrowman
> 
> Anyone else?



The question is, does anyone *not* fancy him.


----------



## Stig (Jan 17, 2008)

zoooo said:
			
		

> The question is, does anyone *not* fancy him.



*puts hand up*


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jan 17, 2008)

Hooray! I am not alone! 

He's gay - right?
Still fancy him though!


----------



## May Kasahara (Jan 17, 2008)

Stig said:
			
		

> *puts hand up*



*stands in solidarity with Stig*

Not that he's not nice looking or anything, he's just a bit beefcake and Tom Crusie for my liking.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jan 17, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> *stands in solidarity with Stig*
> 
> Not that he's not nice looking or anything, he's just a bit beefcake and Tom Crusie for my liking.



    A bit "Tom Cruise" - wash your mouth out Ms. May!!


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jan 17, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> Not that he's not nice looking or anything, he's just a bit beefcake and Tom Crusie for my liking.



Yes he is very clean cut and not the sort of chap who would normally flaot my boat but I feel inexplicably drawn to him....


----------



## zoooo (Jan 17, 2008)

Barrowman's gay and married.
But Captain Jack will shag us!


----------



## Reno (Jan 17, 2008)

May Kasahara said:
			
		

> *stands in solidarity with Stig*
> 
> Not that he's not nice looking or anything, he's just a bit beefcake and Tom Crusie for my liking.



I don't fancy him either and the Cruise comparison is apt. He has a bit of a shop window dummy quality about him.


----------



## pigtails (Jan 18, 2008)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Oi, just 'cos were from the Valleys



Yip!


----------



## pigtails (Jan 18, 2008)

Dammit!!
a duplicate post!


Quick.... think of something intersting to say................... um.................... I'd do Captain Jack too!


----------



## belboid (Jan 20, 2008)

just caught up with episode one - bloody good, so much better than the first series.  tho it is, obviously, a great shame that the rapist is still in it.  and the crap japanese lass, it'd be much better if they were killed off


----------



## rollinder (Jan 20, 2008)

pigtails said:
			
		

> Quick.... think of something intersting to say................... um.................... I'd do Captain Jack too!


 
I'd rather do the other one - fuck he was hot

*starts wanting to watch Buffy*

was I the only one to get massivey turned on during the fight/(almost) fucking scene?  

How is the pre watershed re-edited version going to work?


----------



## butterfly child (Jan 20, 2008)

zoooo said:
			
		

> Barrowman's gay and married.
> But Captain Jack will shag us!



I thought he was bi?

I fancy him


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 20, 2008)

butterfly child said:
			
		

> I thought he was bi?
> 
> I fancy him



I might make him my fantasy totty for tonight


----------



## aqua (Jan 23, 2008)

god this really is bollocks


----------



## butterfly child (Jan 23, 2008)

I think it's really good.

Open mouthed here!!!!!


----------



## butterfly child (Jan 23, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:
			
		

> I might make him my fantasy totty for tonight



I may go and see him on tour


----------



## belboid (Jan 23, 2008)

aqua said:
			
		

> god this really is bollocks


great big lovely bollocks that you could suck for hours!

where was spike tho?


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jan 23, 2008)

aqua said:
			
		

> god this really is bollocks




It's lovely wednesday night fluffy bollocks.


----------



## andy2002 (Jan 24, 2008)

Last night's had a major plot hole in the first couple of minutes. There was no earthly reason - AT ALL - for Torchwood to have been called to that burglary. Why did the police immediately think something alien/paranormal was going on when a far more likely explanation would have been the woman attacking the burglars with a sword or knife and then hiding it. Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest. As you were...


----------



## T & P (Jan 24, 2008)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> Last night's had a major plot hole in the first couple of minutes. There was no earthly reason - AT ALL - for Torchwood to have been called to that burglary. Why did the police immediately think something alien/paranormal was going on when a far more likely explanation would have been the woman attacking the burglars with a sword or knife and then hiding it. Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest. As you were...


 I said exactly the same thing to the missus last night. She rolled her eyes at me


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm thoroughly enjoying Ianto's new-found sarcasm. 

Me, him, Jack, Spike ...


----------



## Stigmata (Jan 24, 2008)

I love how the first stage of the alien invasion involved assassinating the head of Cardiff Council and sabotaging the M4 sliproad. Marvellous stuff.


----------



## madzone (Jan 24, 2008)

andy2002 said:
			
		

> Last night's had a major plot hole in the first couple of minutes. There was no earthly reason - AT ALL - for Torchwood to have been called to that burglary. Why did the police immediately think something alien/paranormal was going on when a far more likely explanation would have been the woman attacking the burglars with a sword or knife and then hiding it. Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest. As you were...


 
Agreed - wondered the same myself


----------



## madzone (Jan 24, 2008)

Where is the internal stuff shot? Is it a studio or is it an olde morgue or something?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 24, 2008)

Stigmata said:
			
		

> I love how the first stage of the alien invasion involved assassinating the head of Cardiff Council and sabotaging the M4 sliproad. Marvellous stuff.



More goes wrong by itself on the average day in Britain ffs


----------



## andy2002 (Jan 25, 2008)

madzone said:


> Where is the internal stuff shot? Is it a studio or is it an olde morgue or something?



Isn't it a big set in the same building as they film Doctor Who and Sarah Jane?


----------



## dylanredefined (Jan 25, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> Last night's had a major plot hole in the first couple of minutes. There was no earthly reason - AT ALL - for Torchwood to have been called to that burglary. Why did the police immediately think something alien/paranormal was going on when a far more likely explanation would have been the woman attacking the burglars with a sword or knife and then hiding it. Sorry, just needed to get that off my chest. As you were...



   How about its late at night .Lets drag those torchwood fuckers out.If they take the case over no paperwork .Soon as cops realised they could dump anything on torchwood remotely odd they would have the number on speed dial .Probably dreaming up ways to spray local bad boys with alien dna so torchwood would take them away.


----------



## madzone (Jan 25, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> Isn't it a big set in the same building as they film Doctor Who and Sarah Jane?


 
I was looking closey at the scenery the other day and that tiled circular bit with drawers for the bodies looked very real. Maybe it's just a really good set


----------



## White Lotus (Jan 25, 2008)

dylanredefined said:


> How about its late at night .Lets drag those torchwood fuckers out.If they take the case over no paperwork .Soon as cops realised they could dump anything on torchwood remotely odd they would have the number on speed dial .Probably dreaming up ways to spray local bad boys with alien dna so torchwood would take them away.


That's an absolutely perfect explanation, wish I'd thought of that!


----------



## madzone (Jan 25, 2008)

dylanredefined said:


> How about its late at night .Lets drag those torchwood fuckers out.If they take the case over no paperwork .Soon as cops realised they could dump anything on torchwood remotely odd they would have the number on speed dial .Probably dreaming up ways to spray local bad boys with alien dna so torchwood would take them away.


They should've done a split screen with the police sitting at the station eating chinese takeaway and sniggering *wankers*


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2008)

shorely a bigger plot hole was that two of the aliens had unpenetrable skin and couldn't be killed til they had had their force field turned off, but the other two could be killed by a small explosion (ok, quite big explosion, but still) - a terrible waste as hte woman looked kinda cute - the baby death was bloomin marvellous


----------



## cybertect (Jan 25, 2008)

madzone said:


> I was looking closey at the scenery the other day and that tiled circular bit with drawers for the bodies looked very real. Maybe it's just a really good set



It's a set. ISTR there was a feature on building it in the Radio Times at the launch of series 1.


----------



## aqua (Jan 30, 2008)

*falls asleep*


----------



## zoooo (Jan 30, 2008)

That one was a bit boring.

Still... Ianto/Jack snog.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 31, 2008)

I quite enjoyed last nights episode, it's good to see ones where they don't depend on the cgi.


----------



## innit (Jan 31, 2008)

I was hoping Tosh would get trapped in 1918 

I'm bored of Tosh.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 31, 2008)

Another shit episode.


----------



## madzone (Jan 31, 2008)

innit said:


> I was hoping Tosh would get trapped in 1918
> 
> I'm bored of Tosh.


Me too. I think she muct have graduated form the Gail Tilsley school of acting, specialising in eyelash fluttering


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 31, 2008)

She looks the nicest but is a bit ropey considering her age.


----------



## andy2002 (Jan 31, 2008)

Ropey? I think she's really sexy. Mind you, I fancy Kerry Katona so I'm hardly the best judge...


----------



## Stigmata (Jan 31, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> Ropey? I think she's really sexy. Mind you, I fancy Kerry Katona so I'm hardly the best judge...



Yeah, I agree. Apart from the Kerry Katona bit.


----------



## innit (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't care how fit you think she looks, she's still boring!


----------



## Strumpet (Jan 31, 2008)

Blimey @ Jack action with the fellas! Especially the Buffy guy and him, shit that was hot 

I like TW and all it's crapness!


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 6, 2008)

absolute crap tonight. And ripping off Chasm City.

For the lose


----------



## aqua (Feb 6, 2008)

thankfully, as bees is away with work, I wasn't made to watch it tonight


----------



## Stigmata (Feb 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> absolute crap tonight. And ripping off Chasm City.
> 
> For the lose



Nah, that's a common idea. There's an 80s novel with the exact same storyline.

I quite enjoyed it tonight. Especially the arguing in Welsh accents.


----------



## andy2002 (Feb 6, 2008)

The creature looked like a giant sock puppet! Gotta love that BBC CGI...


----------



## madzone (Feb 7, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> absolute crap tonight.


Agreed


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 7, 2008)

Loved it. Maybe I'm easily pleased 

But srsly, does Jack just want the entire population to be his, or what?


----------



## May Kasahara (Feb 7, 2008)

Poor alien whale  I wish I hadn't watched it, it made me really sad. And not just because of John Barrowman's terrible acting.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 7, 2008)

May Kasahara said:


> Poor alien whale  I wish I hadn't watched it, it made me really sad. And not just because of John Barrowman's terrible acting.



lol 

I'm allowing myself to get past the atrocious acting now and see it for the pure camp gold that it is. And sitting on the edge of my seat in anticipation of some hot Jack on Ianto action too 

"Have you ever had alien meat?"

"Yes."

"What was it like?"

"Well he enjoyed it." 

/bad paraphrasing


----------



## zoooo (Feb 7, 2008)

Hurrah! That's the attitude.

I bloody LOVED last night's.
That awful line "What have they done to you, my poor friend" teehee.

Still managed to blub a bit about the poor whale slug, though. There were some very funny lines from Ianto too.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 7, 2008)

zoooo said:


> Hurrah! That's the attitude.
> 
> I bloody LOVED last night's.
> That awful line "What have they done to you, my poor friend" teehee.
> ...



The writing for Ianto's one-liners produces some of the biggest laughs in our house. 

"We could release a single" lollerskates


----------



## Belushi (Feb 7, 2008)

It's still complete rubbish and I'm still only watching itbecause its likely to be the only Welsh Sci-Fi series made


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 7, 2008)

Yet another shit episode. Good for you BBC scheduling for putting it on when there is nothing even remotely interesting to watch on any other channel. Mind you that's almost all day every day these days.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 7, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yet another shit episode. Good for you BBC scheduling for putting it on when there is nothing even remotely interesting to watch on any other channel. Mind you that's almost all day every day these days.


 


I almost switched over to the footy, but then thought better of it


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 7, 2008)

I can't do footy so I left it on. Mind you I did end up making dinner through most of it.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 7, 2008)

You find an alien.

Make millions showing it on TV programmes and live displays and become dead famous.

Carve it up for dodgy meat and make a few thou.

Idiots.

And who decides to carves something up whilst its still alive?


----------



## May Kasahara (Feb 7, 2008)

THE WELSH! That's who!


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2008)

w000 its good tonight for a change!


----------



## aqua (Feb 13, 2008)

really, what is the definition of "good" you're using tonight?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2008)

they used a kewl memory creature rather than a lame giant slug thing


----------



## aqua (Feb 13, 2008)

but it was still bollocks wasn't it, lets be fair here


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2008)

oooh the sandbox!

e2a  yes it was rubbish, but rather than unentertaining rubbish like last week, it was entertaining rubbish


----------



## aqua (Feb 13, 2008)

you really need to get out more


----------



## pengaleng (Feb 13, 2008)

you guys actually watch this shit? 


blimey.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2008)

aqua said:


> you really need to get out more


 

hah. you watched it too!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 13, 2008)

How did I find myself watching this bullshit again? The fucking sentimental music was horrific. 
Why did they have to kill him?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> How did I find myself watching this bullshit again? The fucking sentimental music was horrific.
> Why did they have to kill him?


 

because he was a baddie. Do not expect any further level of complexity from Torchwood


----------



## Socket (Feb 13, 2008)

Wasn't bad. I want to punch all but one of the cast though, irritating goits that they are.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 13, 2008)

Socket said:


> Wasn't bad. I want to punch all but one of the cast though, irritating goits that they are.



Which one don't you want to punch?


----------



## aqua (Feb 13, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> hah. you watched it too!


no, bees watches it, therefore as I'm in the same room on here I had the stupid thing inflicted on me

it wasn't by choice!

last week he was away and this house was torchwood free


----------



## Socket (Feb 13, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Which one don't you want to punch?




John Barrowman. He's also an irritating goit but he's got a nice smile.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 13, 2008)

Socket said:


> John Barrowman. He's also an irritating goit but he's got a nice smile.



After his acting again tonight he would be the first one I would punch out.


----------



## Socket (Feb 13, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> After his acting again tonight he would be the first one I would punch out.



I gave up looking for signs of acting in Torchwood ten minutes in to the first episode of the first series: the ghastliness of it passes me by now.

I feel this enhances my enjoyment of the programme no end.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 14, 2008)

I find it quite funny that Barrowman is by far the worst actor in it.

I thought Ianto (or rather dude wot plays him) had some pretty good acting last night akshually.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 14, 2008)

Geeky Owen ftw 

Last night's was one of those episodes where the daft plot, crummy acting and shameless melodrama somehow combined to create something really quite entertaining. There's more than a hint of the original Star Trek about Torchwood in that respect.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Geeky Owen ftw
> 
> Last night's was one of those episodes where the daft plot, crummy acting and shameless melodrama somehow combined to create something really quite entertaining. There's more than a hint of the original Star Trek about Torchwood in that respect.



All you needed in the desert scenes were rocks that you could lift with your little finger, with bits of the original polystyrene still showing


----------



## Gromit (Feb 14, 2008)

I was bored by the entire episode. 

The only redeeming feature of the script was the ironic switch of romantic positions between Tosh and Owen and the fact that nothing changed as a result of it all. 

I should also point out the plot hole of Reece not being mind wiped and the alien dying as Reece will remember meeting the alien allbeit briefly.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 14, 2008)

Marius said:


> I should also point out the plot hole of Reece not being mind wiped and the alien dying as Reece will remember meeting the alien allbeit briefly.



If you make a habit of pointing out plot holes in torchwood you won't get much else done


----------



## zoooo (Feb 14, 2008)

I heart geeky Owen.

Bring him back!


----------



## belboid (Feb 14, 2008)

another episode ripping off Buffy, without even the excuse of having Spike in it this time!

They really shouldn't do the shitty 'dramatic' stuff when none of tem are good enough actors, you'd have thought they'd have noticed that by now. Tosh was even worse than normal, she really should be written out, she's crap, her characters crap.  And it was a shame that Ianto was made into a rapist, rather than Owen, it migt have reminded the latter that he actually was one.


----------



## gnoriac (Feb 14, 2008)

Far and away the best Torchwood ever, though saying that does remind of another thread where I was criticised for pointing out that yahoo mail's better than hotmail. 
In the hands of a good crew a superb bit of SF drama could've been made out of that script.
No doubt back to the usual dross next week.


----------



## aqua (Feb 20, 2008)

jesus  why can't I live with someone who thinks this is pants too


----------



## T & P (Feb 20, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> Far and away the best Torchwood ever, though saying that does remind of another thread where I was criticised for pointing out that yahoo mail's better than hotmail.
> In the hands of a good crew a superb bit of SF drama could've been made out of that script.
> No doubt back to the usual dross next week.


 I certainly agree 100% with your first sentence. So far every episode in series 2 had been shit, but this was, I thought, pretty damn good. Certainly on a par with some Dr. Who episodes (though not nearly as good as the _good_ Dr. Who eps).

As you say, probably the best Torchwood ever. Come to think of it I can barely remember any of the episodes on series 1, other than who shagged who.

So what about 



Spoiler: the shock development at the end



Do we think Owen is gone for good? Miss T & P has always moaned about him being annoying (and ugly as hell apparently  ) but now she's saying she hopes they haven't killed him off.


----------



## T & P (Feb 20, 2008)

Actually, to answer to my own question above 



Spoiler: the development at the end



we were just watching Torchwood confidential and it does sound as if Owen is gone for good. Blimey.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 20, 2008)

Spoiler: I guessed



Had a feeling he was a goner the moment he agreed to a date with Tosh. Makes it more upsetting don't it.



Defo the best Torchwood I've seen in ages. Assassins, action, evil experiements, a big cliff hanger. It was only missing a gang of ninjas to be perfect.


----------



## zoooo (Feb 20, 2008)

I just watched next week's on BBC3. Flipping _awesome_!!!!
And proper scary too. Yay!


----------



## belboid (Feb 20, 2008)

the little shit better stay dead, it'll be a right cop out if he isn't.

(& yes, I've seen the first half of the bbc3 episode)


----------



## madzone (Feb 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> the little shit better stay dead, it'll be a right cop out if he isn't.
> 
> (& yes, I've seen the first half of the bbc3 episode)


Do you think maybe the first bit of your post would be better with the spolier code on?


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2008)

on a thread discussing the show?  anyone with any sense knows to avoid such threads when they haven't seen the latest (terrestrial) episode, or all we're left with is 'wasn't that great/shit/etc'.  So, no.

(& anyway, I dont say who 'the little shit' is  )


----------



## madzone (Feb 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> on a thread discussing the show? anyone with any sense knows to avoid such threads when they haven't seen the latest (terrestrial) episode, or all we're left with is 'wasn't that great/shit/etc'. So, no.
> 
> (& anyway, I dont say who 'the little shit' is  )


Fair do's.

Bit selfish if you ask me


----------



## fogbat (Feb 21, 2008)

Bah.

Trying to watch last night's episode on the Beeb's Torchwood site, but it's freezing after the continuity announcer bit 

Edited to add:
It's here, for anyone who wants it.


----------



## belboid (Feb 21, 2008)

zoooo said:


> I just watched next week's on BBC3. Flipping _awesome_!!!!
> And proper scary too. Yay!



fuck me, that was _good_

(even if it did seem to skip a bit massively about 35 minutes)


----------



## gnoriac (Feb 22, 2008)

belboid said:


> the little shit better stay dead



If I was a member of the Torchwood team I'd seriously consider driving a stake through his heart then cremating the body and spitting on the ashes. Just to be sure, like.

Surprised just how much Martha Jones upstaged them all, though she did seem to be overdoing the smiling to the point of absurdity. I don't think she stopped smiling until the evil prof had her strapped down on the table.


----------



## madzone (Mar 13, 2008)

I thought that was scary


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 13, 2008)

crap as usual


----------



## Gromit (Mar 13, 2008)

I enjoyed last night's if oh for the scary Nerys Hughes 

They are thick though considering. We haven't thought this through. No shit Sherlock I'd worked that out ages ago and that  a little drinkie would be required at the end.


----------



## madzone (Mar 13, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> crap as usual


Why do you keep watching it then?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 13, 2008)

madzone said:


> Why do you keep watching it then?


 


for the same reason i watched DS9 for so damn long. Aliens, spashships and that.


Its the humans that are such a big let down in torchwood


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 13, 2008)

Not the best ep ever last night, but I still love it


----------



## zoooo (Mar 13, 2008)

My mum thought it was the best yet! 

I loved it too. Especially the Ianto/Jack bits. Very funny.


----------



## Strumpet (Mar 13, 2008)

Nerys! Omg scary as hell!


----------



## zoooo (Mar 13, 2008)

And Jack! Aw.

But Nerys was scarier. I will never look at her the same way again.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 13, 2008)

zoooo said:


> My mum thought it was the best yet!
> 
> I loved it too. Especially the Ianto/Jack bits. Very funny.



Trouble brewing there no doubt as Ianto obviously like Jack more than Jack likes him. 

Ianto is Jack's fallback position cause he can't have Gwen.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 13, 2008)

shouty wlesh actors FTL


----------



## zoooo (Mar 13, 2008)

Marius said:


> Trouble brewing there no doubt as Ianto obviously like Jack more than Jack likes him.
> 
> Ianto is Jack's fallback position cause he can't have Gwen.



Very, very true.
Ianto's good at doing crying acting too. I think he'll be doing some more soon.


----------



## T & P (Apr 5, 2008)

Did anyone catch the last episode on Friday (why was it switched from Wednesdays for the last couple of weeks anyway?)...

Better than average, and quite sad...


----------



## Strumpet (Apr 5, 2008)

Loved it....SO sad....I cried a lil bit


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2008)

Strumpet said:


> Loved it....SO sad....I cried a lil bit




Frankly I'm glad to see the back of Tosh and whats his name, Pish?


James Marsters must be fucking desperate for work.

Truly awful.


----------



## Strumpet (Apr 5, 2008)

Oh shrup n go put ya pants on properly


----------



## zoooo (Apr 5, 2008)

It was effing brilliant!!!

Just so glad they didn't get rid of Ianto.

Hope Spike comes back next series.


----------



## janeb (Apr 5, 2008)

I cried lots, and esp when Capt John kissed Capt Jack on the cheek at the end, so tender, although I was hoping for something a little more full on snog tbh


----------



## maldwyn (Apr 5, 2008)

Is it me, or is Capt Jack a bit of a sex pest?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2008)

Rumor has it he walks around on set with his todger out


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Frankly I'm glad to see the back of Tosh and whats his name, Pish?


I reckon Owen became an excellent character when he joined the ranks of the undead. In fact they've killed off the 2 best characters, left us with Captain Jack (good-looking and kisses blokes but no use for anything else), Gwen (just runs around shouting and waving guns) and Ianto (excruciatingly boring).

That last episode maybe shows what the series has been lacking all along, a bit of darkness and danger. Up to then it just seemed to be a bunch of yuppies running around Cardiff city centre with alien technology.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 5, 2008)

They clearly need to bring back Martha and James Marsters' character, to make up the numbers and maximise the WIN quotient.


----------



## zoooo (Apr 5, 2008)

No, not Martha!

But Spike should become a regular character definitely.
Get a new (fantastically good looking but straight) boy in, that Captain Jack wants but can't have, and it'll be golden.
(He may of course shag Jack in the last episode, when he has been shot with some kind of alien gay-making gun or something. To solve all the sexual tension.)


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> I reckon Owen became an excellent character when he joined the ranks of the undead. In fact they've killed off the 2 best characters,


First sentence, almost right, second, complete crap.  I ws so happy when they killed off those two tedious bores - Owen, the rapist, who shouldnt be able to walk any more after having half a bloody house fall on him last week, but who can miraculously still run around!  God, those episodes where he had to be a romantic lead, how cringeworthy!  And whatsername, Toshiko, just couldnt act and was a total wet blanket.  Jack isnt very good, but cant be got rid of really - except maybe by Spike - and Ianto has got better, dull tho he still is. Eve Myles is actually quite good!  Which is why Martha cant join, unfortunately, she'd act them all off the screen.


----------



## zoooo (Apr 6, 2008)

:O
Well, it's nice to hear someone say that Martha can act. Although unusual.


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2008)

compared to that lot?  easily the best

(tho actually, burn gorman can act, just not as a romantic lead or action hero - he's a good slimy creep)


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 6, 2008)

God, I don't think Martha is a good actor at all (or rather Freya thingy). I really, really do not want her back next season. Stilted.

Moar Capt. John though.

And yes, why is it necessary to inject some sort of sexual subtext to every single relationship Jack has with anyone? It's kind of fun and flirty with some, but when it's every single goddamn character it gets a bit tired.

Gwen is def. the best actor of them all. Hope she doesn't leave.


----------



## zoooo (Apr 6, 2008)

I like the way they've made us like Gwen's husband. Last series, I thought he was the weakest character, and if I'd known he'd be in every episode of series 2, I would have been quite pissed off.

He's good though.


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> God, I don't think Martha is a good actor at all (or rather Freya thingy). I really, really do not want her back next season. Stilted.
> 
> Moar Capt. John though.


you think she's stilted but want more of the perpetually woody captain jack??!!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 6, 2008)

belboid said:


> you think she's stilted but want more of the perpetually woody captain jack??!!



Did you miss the bit where I wrote Capt. John instead of Capt. Jack?


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2008)

clearly!


----------



## zoooo (Apr 6, 2008)

Jack's not wooden! 

He's just... differently abled, acting-wise.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 6, 2008)

He's a flippin' song-and-dance man, which is a very different sort of acting to TV stuff.


----------



## zoooo (Apr 6, 2008)

I still like watching him though.


----------



## Iguana (Apr 6, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Gwen is def. the best actor of them all. Hope she doesn't leave.



I didn't realise that until the last episode, but her reaction to the city being blown up was definitely better than any of the others.  I like her scenes with Rhys too.  I think they got rid of the right characters.  Tosh was dull and I just can't get over how much I hated Owen last year, despite the fact that he was less of a hateful, frog-faced rapist this year.


----------



## Final (Jul 1, 2008)

From Dr Who thread:




			
				Nine Bob Note said:
			
		

> Also looks as though Martha and Mickey will be replacing Tosh and Owen on Torchwood. Here's hoping for some Mickey on Ianto action



Martha for Owen is straight swap, Dr for Dr.

But Mickey for for Tosh???


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 1, 2008)

He already works for parallel universe Torchwood so it's not a massive stretch.


----------



## Final (Jul 1, 2008)

As a hacker / tech geek?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 2, 2008)

Final said:


> As a hacker / tech geek?



Yep, I can see him being taken on as a hacker. Bear in mind that he busted into UNIT's and Torchwood's networks (among others) in his Doctor Who episodes.
Npot so sure about his tech credentials, though.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 2, 2008)

Please god not Martha - that fixed inane grin, that non-ability to act 

Mickey might be interesting but Martha is shit.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Please god not Martha - that fixed inane grin, that non-ability to act
> 
> Mickey might be interesting but Martha is shit.



Absolutely, I really really can't stand her. Abysmal acting


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

still better than the vile Owen or pathetic Tosh tho


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 2, 2008)

belboid said:


> still better than the vile Owen or pathetic Tosh tho



Nah - even King of the Frogmen Owen was a better actor (he is playing Bill Sykes in "Oliver!" in the West End btw) and though Tosh was a bit pathetic at times at least she was not annoying like Martha is.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

belboid said:


> still better than the vile Owen or pathetic Tosh tho



Not for me


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Nah - even King of the Frogmen Owen was a better actor (he is playing Bill Sykes in "Oliver!" in the West End btw) and though Tosh was a bit pathetic at times at least she was not annoying like Martha is.



oh god yes she was!  Terrible character.  Owen could act sometimes (and he was great in Bleak House - where he was meant to be a slimey arse), but in this? Especially the scenes where he was meant to be a sex god!  No.  Just no.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 2, 2008)

belboid said:


> oh god yes she was!  Terrible character.  Owen could act sometimes (and he was great in Bleak House - where he was meant to be a slimey arse), but in this? Especially the scenes where he was meant to be a sex god!  No.  Just no.



I agree with you about Owen not being a sex god. Mr. QofG's got most upset when he had that fling with Gwen


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

It was the one with that flyer woman from the thirties or whenever that really got me n mrs b.

<shudders at the memory>


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2008)

trying to pick who's the shittest actor in Torchwood is like trying to differentiate between different types of excrement.


Barrowman the Mighty excluded, of course


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

why?  He's pretty crap too, can't emote for toffee.  Gwen is the only one who can actually act I think.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2008)

his character is awesome enough to get away with a bit of wood now and then. INVINCIBLE!


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

hmm, wonders whether to make cheap joke about Barrowman getting wood or not.....


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 2, 2008)

I'd prefer them to bring in some new characters tbh - just to ring the changes - and 'cos Bernard Cribbens, who would be my first choice, is a bit old to be running around Cardiff.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 2, 2008)

belboid said:


> hmm, wonders whether to make cheap joke about Barrowman getting wood or not.....





I always thought he was better as a supporting character than as a leading actor which is why though I worship Capt Jack and would have happily have his babies I prefer him in "Dr. Who" than "Torchwood".

Same with his stage stuff - he was excellent as a supporting character in "Sunset Boulevard" but a bit swamped as the lead in "Anything Goes".


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I'd prefer them to bring in some new characters tbh - just to ring the changes - and 'cos Bernard Cribbens, who would be my first choice, is a bit old to be running around Cardiff.



He can take over Ianto's job of making tea and coffee in the hub now that Ianto is too tired from shagging Jack all the time and thinking of his witty one-liners.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 2, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> He can take over Ianto's job of making tea and coffee in the hub now that Ianto is too tired from shagging Jack all the time and thinking of his witty one-liners.



That would be so cool!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> That would be so cool!



He can make them up flasks of coffee to take with them on long trips or missions. He can equip them with warm blankets too.

He could also be in charge of checking the skies for any strangeness.


----------



## Final (Jul 2, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> He can take over Ianto's job of making tea and coffee in the hub now that Ianto is too tired from shagging Jack all the time and thinking of his witty one-liners.



I'm likely to watch any future Torchwood even if it remains shit - but I still can't work out the point for having Ianto.

The only episode his character was ever good in was the one where he first joined torchwood and helped Jack catch the pterodactyl (pterodactyl  = thank you spell checker 

What happened, he joins and then loses all his personality and stuff?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

Final said:


> I'm likely to watch any future Torchwood even if it remains shit - but I still can't work out the point for having Ianto.
> 
> The only episode his character was ever good in was the one where he first joined torchwood and helped Jack catch the pterodactyl (pterodactyl  = thank you spell checker
> 
> What happened, he joins and then loses all his personality and stuff?



Nooo. He has the best lines a lot of the time. He's mister witty.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 2, 2008)

Final said:


> I'm likely to watch any future Torchwood even if it remains shit - but I still can't work out the point for having Ianto.
> 
> The only episode his character was ever good in was the one where he first joined torchwood and helped Jack catch the pterodactyl (pterodactyl  = thank you spell checker
> 
> What happened, he joins and then loses all his personality and stuff?



Ianto is great! I like him.

Also his personality changed when his girlfriend was turned into a cyberwoman (wasn't she also played by Feema thingy or am I imagining that) and then he had to kill her.


----------



## zoooo (Jul 2, 2008)

No, that was another girl! I think she used to be on As If, or some show like that.


My Torchwood series 2 boxset came today!
It's so pretty and red.


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

Ianto did get much better in series 2 I thought. 

His original girlfriend was Lisa Hallett, played by Caroline Chikezie, according to wiki


----------



## hektik (Jun 30, 2009)

anyone excited about the new torchwood series next week:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/torchwood/

the 1st trailer looks mint. the 2nd one makes it look a bit shit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2009)

money that could have been spent on honest, decent doctor who rather than all this gender bending PC nonsense agenda being pushed by the beeb and thier zanliebore cronies


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 30, 2009)

That looks pretty good actually


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jun 30, 2009)

If the last series is anything to go by it'll be shit.

I'll probably watch it though.


----------



## BadlyDrawnGirl (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm still a fan and it's heartwarming to see the '...Who' empire expanding and flourishing again...I just wish I liked any of it much anymore. 

I don't know if it's psychological, but in 'my day' - Tom Baker/Peter Davidson - it all seemed to be directed at a slightly higher age range and was genuinely chilling and alien, somehow exascerbated by the videotape production values and cardboard robots that suggested you could be there with them. (Minus random technical shortcomings of the era such as screen light blur that is.) Now all the franchises seem a touch too...I dunno...'Byker Grove'... 

_*Trips over Zimmer frame, colostomy bag falls out*_


----------



## Guineveretoo (Jun 30, 2009)

I never "got" Torchwood, I am afraid, although I watched it a few times. There are some good shots of Cardiff in it, sometimes, and John Barrowman is a bit of eye candy. Other than that, it's not for me.

I adored Christopher Ecclestone as Doctor Who, and was surprised to find that David Tennant evoked similar levels of adoration, too, since I was disappointed that Ecclestone left so soon.

I am not sure I agree about it being aimed at a higher age range than the previous incarnations, though. If anything, there have been a few where I have thought it was not only highly sophisticated in plot and character, but convincingly scary! Perhaps I am just getting to be a bit of a wuss with my zimmer frame?


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm looking forward to it although Torchwood always manages to disappoint. Series Two had its moments but was more of the same old bollocks really.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 1, 2009)

There are three radio plays acting as prequels to this story on Radio 4 this week.  The first is on today at 2.15pm and the next are tomorrow and Friday.



> 1.  BBC Radio 4
> 2. Programmes
> 3. Afternoon Play
> 4. Torchwood - Asylum
> ...



http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00lg4c7


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 1, 2009)

Apparently it's just 5 episodes on every day next week. Old Barrowman is pissed off and feels short changed by the Beeb. He feels that they are punishing them in return for a 'promotion' to BBC1. I can see what he means. Old RTD says it'll be good for the fans. I don't know. I fucking hate things that are just a run of every night a week. More chance to miss them, and they're over too quickly.


----------



## ethel (Jul 1, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> That looks pretty good actually




i've seen it! (well the 1st episode). it's vastly improved imho. the new format works well. i gave up on season 2.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 1, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Apparently it's just 5 episodes on every day next week. Old Barrowman is pissed off and feels short changed by the Beeb. He feels that they are punishing them in return for a 'promotion' to BBC1. I can see what he means. Old RTD says it'll be good for the fans. I don't know. I fucking hate things that are just a run of every night a week. More chance to miss them, and they're over too quickly.



Frankly, the Torchwood team deserve punishment.

A reduction in the number of episodes is getting off lightly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2009)

I bloody hate the beebs whoniverse radio plays. No narrator = fail.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 1, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Old Barrowman is pissed off



He should have thought of that before he decided to be an inusfferable, talentless cunt.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 5, 2009)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Please god not Martha - that fixed inane grin, that non-ability to act
> 
> Mickey might be interesting but Martha is shit.



Thankfully both actors (though I use the term loosely with regard to Ageyman) had scheduling conflicts and won't be in this series.


----------



## badlands (Jul 6, 2009)

Was this filmed in fatty vision or something?


----------



## gsv (Jul 6, 2009)

Much better 

GS(v)


----------



## 8ball (Jul 6, 2009)

Pure gorgonzola. 

Plenty of time to catch up on iPlayer if you miss any, I would think.


----------



## pigtails (Jul 6, 2009)

Excellent!!
I love Captain Jack - Cheesier than a cheese platter followed by fondue, followed by cheesecake


----------



## RubyBlue (Jul 6, 2009)

I had forgotten this 5 parter started tonight - I've missed it  I love Torchwood!


----------



## pigtails (Jul 6, 2009)

RubyBlue said:


> I had forgotten this 5 parter started tonight - I've missed it  I love Torchwood!



iplayer??
It'll be repeated to death on BBC3 probably!


----------



## han (Jul 6, 2009)

Tonight's was the first Torchwood I've ever seen  - and I thought it was fab!


----------



## ChrisC (Jul 6, 2009)

So far so good. I enjoyed that. ETA: I too have never seen Torchwood before. Seems darker than Dr Who.


----------



## pigtails (Jul 6, 2009)

han said:


> Tonight's was the first Torchwood I've ever seen  - and I thought it was fab!



Oh you have to watch the previous ones!
I love it!


----------



## scifisam (Jul 6, 2009)

I've never actually watched Torchwood before, but tonight's episode was really good.

(Apart from the conversation about the language the aliens would be most likely to have picked us as Earth's major language).

Did I mishear, or did that woman with the kid call Jack Daniel (heh) at one point? Is she his sister or cousin or something?


----------



## pigtails (Jul 6, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I've never actually watched Torchwood before, but tonight's episode was really good.
> 
> (Apart from the conversation about the language the aliens would be most likely to have picked us as Earth's major language).
> 
> Did I mishear, or did that woman with the kid call Jack Daniel (heh) at one point? Is she his sister or cousin or something?



Dad, she called him Dad!!!!!!!


----------



## scifisam (Jul 6, 2009)

pigtails said:


> Dad, she called him Dad!!!!!!!




Oh - I had no idea he had a daughter.


----------



## RubyBlue (Jul 6, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Oh - I had no idea he had a daughter.



No-one did  I love this show - I did a thread about Primeval recently and someone said they were looking at a possible Torchwood / Primeval special - that would be fab


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 6, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I've never actually watched Torchwood before, but tonight's episode was really good.


Same for me. It's obviously hammy and 'knowing' but I haven't got my head around it all yet. The setting of Cardiff Bay makes me laugh though.

Russel T Davies though, so fingers crossed.



The radio prequels sound an interesting 'multi-platform' angle


----------



## pigtails (Jul 6, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Oh - I had no idea he had a daughter.



I KNOW...... it was sooooooo exciting!!!
Not as exciting as in Dr Who when he said he was known as the face of bo when he was younger...... I literally leaked wee when that happened!!!


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 6, 2009)

I thought that was brilliant and I'm someone who usually spends most of his time rolling his eyes and shouting at the telly when Torchwood is on.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 6, 2009)

han said:


> Tonight's was the first Torchwood I've ever seen  - and I thought it was fab!



It's the first one I've ever seen that was any good. 

Adding nasty Whitehall / MI5 types, mental hospital, etc. all helps.


----------



## LindaR (Jul 6, 2009)

It would have been great had it been 40 minutes long. There was just a bit too much exposition...


----------



## tufty79 (Jul 6, 2009)

didn't realise it was back 
waiting for iplayer at the moment..


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 6, 2009)

LindaR said:


> It would have been great had it been 40 minutes long. There was just a bit too much exposition...


I'd imagine in this time slot - for five days running - the BBC were hoping to draw in a new audience, which among others is me. Didn't have a clue about Captain Jack, etc, and it seemed right to this new viewer, though I can understand it would be too much for those who know the back stories.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 7, 2009)

alien invasions in wales....can't take it seriously.

bbc sound mixing still on overload i see (or hear).

wasn't bad though. better than the usual torchwood 'ooh look two men snogging' crap


----------



## madzone (Jul 7, 2009)

The way John Barrowman kisses makes me cringe. It can't be a homophone thing becuase the two guys kissing in eastenders had an entirely different effect on me.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 7, 2009)

Torchwood!
Blydi fablus!! LOVE it 



He kinda eats rather than kisses I think, madz lol.


----------



## gsv (Jul 7, 2009)

madzone said:


> It can't be a homophone thing becuase the two guys kissing in eastenders had an entirely different effect on me.


On Eastenders it sounds different?

GS(v)


----------



## madzone (Jul 7, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> Torchwood!
> Blydi fablus!! LOVE it
> 
> 
> ...


 Yeah, it's totally over the top and unbelievable.

((((JB's husband))))


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 7, 2009)

Hmmm I dunno. I think he kisses desperately. I think it kinda suits Capn Jack. He is a pretty sad, desperate kinda character imo.
Lol@hugging his hubbie


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 7, 2009)

> I don't know if it's psychological, but in 'my day' - Tom Baker/Peter Davidson - it all seemed to be directed at a slightly higher age range and was genuinely chilling and alien,



You were a lot younger when Tom & Peter were the doctor...plus the ole rose tinted spectacles of nostalgia...

I couldn't stand Torchwood the first time around, this actually held my interest...


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

Erm...

It's the first time I have seen Torchwood.

What was a CBBC programme doing past the watershed on BBC1?

It was awful for an adult programme, but enjoyable as something you watch with your nephew on some Sky channel.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 7, 2009)

I liked the part where one of them went to visit his sister on the estate and she did the sisterly interrogation thing - with a Welsh accent and colloquialisms. Excellent.

Only seen this one so I don't know anything, felt like a pretty stark Batcave vibe - Captain Jack's trenchcoat might almost have been a cape. Even liked Peter Capaldi being the other side of the ministerial desk.

Very playful.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 7, 2009)

Awesome Wells said:


> alien invasions in wales....can't take it seriously.


Think about it.
Where else in the UK could aliens walk amongst us and not be noticed, hmmm?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 7, 2009)

Cracked up at the bit where Ianto's sister asked him "have you gone bender, then?".


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

Good to see that Russell T can still occasionally write something not shit


----------



## madzone (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm bloody glad I read this thread though - I didn't know it was nightly. That would have been one very pissed off teen.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

I loved that they made us think 



Spoiler: first episode twist



Rupesh would be a new member of the team, then just killed him 



Oh, and Lois Habiba is just lovely *swoons*


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 7, 2009)

My Filipino-American friend is quite upset about the throwaway joke about Gwen getting a servant.


----------



## Pingu (Jul 7, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> Think about it.
> Where else in the UK could aliens walk amongst us and not be noticed, hmmm?



wolverhampton


----------



## Maggot (Jul 7, 2009)

Really enjoyed that.  The scene with the schoolkids screaming was genuinely eerie.

Is Peter Capaldi destined to only ever play civil servants now?

This series deserves it's own thread.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 7, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> My Filipino-American friend is quite upset about the throwaway joke about Gwen getting a servant.



That said, the actress who plays Gwens first role in the whoniverse was as a servant - referenced in the last episode of the last series of Doctor Who.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> My Filipino-American friend is quite upset about the throwaway joke about Gwen getting a servant.



Your Filipino-American friend has failed to realise that it was mocking those who hire servants, and not Filipinos.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Jul 7, 2009)

I enjoyed it 
Hardly watch any tv but will def try to remember to watch this every night.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jul 7, 2009)

Why is a children's TV programme on at 9 oclock in the evening?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

goldenecitrone said:


> Why is a children's TV programme on at 9 oclock in the evening?



Torchwood was always supposed to be the "grown up" spin-off of Doctor Who.

Sadly "grown up" basically meant crap teenage references to shagging.


----------



## Griff (Jul 7, 2009)

Yep, enjoyed that one. 

Never really got on with Torchwood before, but that was much, much better.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 7, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> Think about it.
> Where else in the UK could aliens walk amongst us and not be noticed, hmmm?






fogbat said:


> I loved that they made us think
> 
> 
> Spoiler: first episode twist
> ...


That was great. Threw me cos I thought the same.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

It's great spotting the various Cardiff locations 

I think they may have used bits of the University as some of the Whitehall interiors, too


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

goldenecitrone said:


> Why is a children's TV programme on at 9 oclock in the evening?



This.

I don't get it.

Like I said, enjoyable nonsense on the CBBC channel, but primetime on BBC1?


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 7, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Like I said, enjoyable nonsense on the CBBC channel, but primetime on BBC1?



It's in that Buffy range, isn't it; you can see it as superficial teenage nonsense or you can look a little further. It's a choice you're being offered. As this thread demonstrates, plenty of adults are engaged enough to want to look beyond the surface.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> It's in that Buffy range, isn't it; you can see it as superficial teenage nonsense or you can look a little further. It's a choice you're being offered. As this thread demonstrates, plenty of adults are engaged enough to want to look beyond the surface.



Fair enough.

I'm not one of those people who go onto a thread to slag something off for the sake of it, but I really thought it was a kids programme on at 9pm on BBC1.

I got the joke about Cardiff being the centre of an alien invasion, but there was no swearing, violence, sex or drug references.  There wasn't anything that couldn't have been shown on a Saturday afternoon, which seems to be the traditional slot for a show like this.

Why was it on at 9pm?  Just because of the two blokes kissing?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I'm not one of those people who go onto a thread to slag something off for the sake of it, but I really thought it was a kids programme on at 9pm on BBC1.
> 
> ...



http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9375474&postcount=575


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 7, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Why was it on at 9pm?  Just because of the two blokes kissing?


I suppose we'll know by the end of the week. It might also be to do with it being intended for an adult audience.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I suppose we'll know by the end of the week. It might also be to do with it being intended for an adult audience.



Well, I won't give it a spin tonight, so it might suddenly turn into a fright fest during the rest of the week.

But "Are you my mummy" and "The Library" episodes of Doctor Who were far more chilling, and shown on a Saturday afternoon, than this post watershed offering.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

fogbat said:


> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9375474&postcount=575



I never watched it on BBC Three, but wasn't there a lot of swearing, hence the post 9pm slot?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 7, 2009)

need an alternate source to iplayer cos iplayer is being shit.

any helpers?


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 7, 2009)

Pacific Ocean  - Why are you so intent on simplifying what is adult orientated material into sex or swearing?

It seems adult to me because it’s layered and fairly sophisticated. And becasue of who the writer is, you know, if there is sex and swearing, he included it to make sure it went out after 9.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 7, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I'm not one of those people who go onto a thread to slag something off for the sake of it, but I really thought it was a kids programme on at 9pm on BBC1.
> 
> ...



There was a bit of swearing, plus some people getting cut open and some shooting, which would have been edited slightly for a pre-watershed slot.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> There was a bit of swearing, plus some people getting cut open and some shooting, which would have been edited slightly for a pre-watershed slot.



I missed the swearing and the people getting cut open was highly stylised with a magic pen - hardly the scene from Aliens. 

Maybe I am being dense, but I just thought it was a summer filler for BBC1 for the week after knicking it off BBC Three.  

There was no reason that it was on after the watershed.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 7, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> Think about it.
> Where else in the UK could aliens walk amongst us and not be noticed, hmmm?





Pingu said:


> wolverhampton



Norfolk.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 7, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> There was no reason that it was on after the watershed.


Who cares! Really!  If you are interested, watch it. If not, don't....innit


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> Who cares! Really!  If you are interested, watch it. If not, don't....innit



I want swearing goddamit after 9pm


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 7, 2009)

Perv


----------



## 8ball (Jul 7, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> I want swearing goddamit after 9pm



Swearing and fucking and blood and guts!!!

The whole cast rolling around in the blood and guts while fucking and swearing and shooting guns and driving big cars and smoking!!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 7, 2009)

8ball said:


> Swearing and fucking and blood and guts!!!
> 
> The whole cast rolling around in the blood and guts while fucking and swearing and shooting guns and driving big cars and smoking!!!



and having buttsecks


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

8ball said:


> Swearing and fucking and blood and guts!!!
> 
> The whole cast rolling around in the blood and guts while fucking and swearing and shooting guns and driving big cars and smoking!!!



This.

Is it too much to ask for a post watershed drama?


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 7, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> and having buttsecks



And this.

Really, what do I pay my licence fee for?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 7, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> and having buttsecks



 . . . or I demand my license fee back!!


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

8ball said:


> . . . or I demand my license fee back!!



How about a compromise?  The BBC send John Barrowman around to bum you.

Everyone's happy.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm quite surprised that no one's complained about that big car, tbf.


----------



## Clair De Lune (Jul 7, 2009)

fogbat said:


> It's great spotting the various Cardiff locations
> 
> I think they may have used bits of the University as some of the Whitehall interiors, too



One bit looked like the guildhall in Swansea, but I don't know Cardiff at all so maybe it has a similar building.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

Clair De Lune said:


> One bit looked like the guildhall in Swansea, but I don't know Cardiff at all so maybe it has a similar building.



Could well have been.

My local knowledge is years out of date, so I keep seeing places that _I know that I know_, just can't quite remember where


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 7, 2009)

fogbat said:


> How about a compromise?  The BBC send John Barrowman around to bum you.
> 
> Everyone's happy.



I have it on good authority that JB is predominantly a taker, not a giver.

*selfish*


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 7, 2009)

That surprises me


----------



## seeformiles (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm just pleased it's back on so I can have a good old letch over Eve Myles


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

AverageJoe said:


> I have it on good authority that JB is predominantly a taker, not a giver.
> 
> *selfish*



Would he be a "power bottom", do you think?

I heard this phrase years back, but don't really know what it means.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 7, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Norfolk.



Nah, you'd easily notice aliens in Norfolk, they'd be the creatures with two legs and two arms, and only five digits at the end of each appendage!


----------



## rhod (Jul 7, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> need an alternate source to iplayer cos iplayer is being shit.



http://www.rapidshareindex.com/Torchwood-Children-Of-Earth-S03E01_251724.html


----------



## xes (Jul 7, 2009)

fogbat said:


> Would he be a "power bottom", do you think?
> 
> I heard this phrase years back, but don't really know what it means.


 it means they like it big and hard (I think)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 7, 2009)

rhod said:


> http://www.rapidshareindex.com/Torchwood-Children-Of-Earth-S03E01_251724.html



good man


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 7, 2009)

Peter Capaldi's just really good, isn't he? Maybe I should watch The Thick Of It after all.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 7, 2009)

xes said:


> it means they like it big and hard (I think)



No, it means they're the taker but they're also the one in control.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 7, 2009)

scifisam said:


> No, it means they're the taker but they're also the one in control.



Xes is rubbish at homosexuality


----------



## scifisam (Jul 7, 2009)

Good again so far tonight. 'We want a pony. We want a pony.'


----------



## scifisam (Jul 7, 2009)

How crap are they not to have secret bank accounts set up, or stashes of money they can access?


----------



## gsv (Jul 7, 2009)

Liked Gwen's and Iantoh's reactions to Jack's cock 

GS(v)


----------



## LindaR (Jul 7, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nah, you'd easily notice aliens in Norfolk, they'd be the creatures with two legs and two arms, and only five digits at the end of each appendage!



Ain't that the truth...

Tonight was better than last night, but it still isn't as good as series 2.


----------



## T & P (Jul 7, 2009)

Just watched yesterday and tonight's episodes back to back.

How fucking good were they?


----------



## scifisam (Jul 7, 2009)

gsv said:


> Liked Gwen's and Iantoh's reactions to Jack's cock
> 
> GS(v)



And his reaction to the jacket.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 7, 2009)

Very fucking good, T&P? 



gsv said:


> Liked Gwen's and Iantoh's reactions to Jack's cock


Lol me too! Gwen pulls some great faces


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 7, 2009)

Can't wait to see what the aliens look life - probably not a lot in all that foggy poison 

The Carry On type stuff was very good, a bit of both the absurd and the slapstick.


----------



## colacubes (Jul 7, 2009)

T & P said:


> Just watched yesterday and tonight's episodes back to back.
> 
> How fucking good were they?



Just did the same.  FTW


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 7, 2009)

Secret Service Woman's really horrible (haven't worked out her character's name yet), bet when she gets killed it's by the aliens and they do summat really, really nasty to her.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 7, 2009)

Is Gwen usually this much of a badass? When she appeared briefly in Dr Who she came across as a bit of a touchy-feely sort.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 7, 2009)

Wasn't quite as much in the very beginning of Torchwood imo. A lot has happened to her so she is tough as old boots now (mostly)


----------



## Gromit (Jul 8, 2009)

Part of the plot of Torchwood was that the longer you are there the more you lose of your humanity. She reminded them of theirs but lo and behold she's getting tough too. They'll need a new softie soon to fill the old Gwen role.


----------



## 3dfan (Jul 8, 2009)

As for me this spin-off is much better than Doctor Who show - to me Torchwood is more interesting!
----------------------------------------------
power of attorney!


----------



## Balbi (Jul 8, 2009)

They're talking about the head of M&S being Executive and Chairman at the same time, and the pressure he's under to resign one of his roles, and the bloke from the board's just gone...

"There's noone out to get him, this isn't an episode of Torchwood..." 

best reference ever


----------



## Pingu (Jul 8, 2009)

wasnt a fan of previous series but am liking this one


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 8, 2009)

I think it's marvellous. Really enjoying it.

Always been a fan though.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 8, 2009)

Anything that can move smoothly from the cash-strapped hero tucking into pie and chips in a greasy spoon to alien invasion can't be bad.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 8, 2009)

Does anyone know if that evil (I assume) secret service lady was in anything else?

She looks really familiar?


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 8, 2009)

Splendid episode! Loads happened, set up the reveal really nicely, kids talking in unison still _very_ freaky (and nicely undermined by the 'We want a pony' bit too)...and Jack! Wry and I were 'OMFG!' when Evil Woman started pouring concrete in and were both 'YAY!' when Ianto did his thing...


----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Does anyone know if that evil (I assume) secret service lady was in anything else?
> 
> She looks really familiar?


 Are you talking about the leather-clad hitwoman, or the older lady who works at the Home Office building?

Here's the bio about the former

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0108510/


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jul 8, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> Splendid episode! Loads happened, set up the reveal really nicely, kids talking in unison still _very_ freaky (and nicely undermined by the 'We want a pony' bit too)...and Jack! Wry and I were 'OMFG!' when Evil Woman started pouring concrete in and were both 'YAY!' when Ianto did his thing...



I happened to see that bit. A complete rip off of Han Solo being carbon frozen without the possibility of Capn Jack actually dying. And then rescued by a JCB digger. Thrilling.


----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2009)

I can't decide if I find Gwen ordinary looking or sexy as fuck.

I think I'm verging towards the latter, but only when she doesn't show her toothy smile.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 8, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Does anyone know if that evil (I assume) secret service lady was in anything else?
> 
> She looks really familiar?



she was in bad girls , and how do i know that.....


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 8, 2009)

I wondered why the Evil Woman had appeared in most of Charlie Brooker's stuff, click a link and it turns out they lived together for two years. He was on the same time on C4 . . . and in the other thread of the day (Sub Forum Award). Spooooky.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 8, 2009)

we want a pony brilliant. 
 pouring concrete on captain jack nasty.
 escape by JCB thing excellent.
 captain jack wandering around naked ignoring the offered jacket typical jack.


 love to know how they got all the kids to stand still.
 bet somebody's trying to organize there playground as we speak


----------



## Clair De Lune (Jul 8, 2009)

T & P said:


> I can't decide if I find Gwen ordinary looking or sexy as fuck.
> 
> I think I'm verging towards the latter, but only when she doesn't show her toothy smile.



Definitely sexy as fuck. Girls with guns mmm


----------



## fogbat (Jul 8, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Does anyone know if that evil (I assume) secret service lady was in anything else?
> 
> She looks really familiar?



She was Mark's old school-crush almost-shag in Peepshow - the episode where Jeremy works as a "handyman".


----------



## Gromit (Jul 8, 2009)

I find Gwen sexy but not a fan of the gap in her teeth either.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 8, 2009)

Gromit said:


> I find Gwen sexy but not a fan of the gap in her teeth either.



It means she's a right goer


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2009)

I see they're still doing sweeping arial shots to make cardiff look less grim


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 8, 2009)

They put a giant hole in the middle of it as well, which helps


----------



## fogbat (Jul 8, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I see they're still doing sweeping arial shots to make cardiff look less grim



Aren't you from Northampton?


----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2009)

fogbat said:


> It means she's a right goer


----------



## Gromit (Jul 8, 2009)

fogbat said:


> It means she's a right goer


 
Are you imagining that she was too keen one night and knocked that gap in the teeth?

I hope the guy was okay!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2009)

Holy shit-fuck, Torchwood got awesome


hows Jack coming back from that? who is hard faced evil woman?

wow.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2009)

fogbat said:


> Aren't you from Northampton?



ugly and dissident since for ever \m/


----------



## fogbat (Jul 8, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Are you imagining that she was too keen one night and knocked that gap in the teeth?
> 
> I hope the guy was okay!





A gap between the front teeth has long been associated with someone being strongly sexed.

The only example I can remember off the top of my head is the Wife of Bath, from the Canterbury Tales.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 8, 2009)

T & P said:


> Are you talking about the leather-clad hitwoman, or the older lady who works at the Home Office building?
> 
> Here's the bio about the former
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0108510/



Thank you!  

It was the former and it was Bad Girls I remember her from.  

She kicked the shit out of Natalie Buxton and was 'ard as nails.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 8, 2009)

ruffneck23 said:


> she was in bad girls , and how do i know that.....



Thanks! 

I didn't see your post until just now.

It was driving me mad.  I thought she was off Quizmania or something similar for some reason.


----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> Holy shit-fuck, Torchwood got awesome
> 
> 
> hows Jack coming back from that? who is hard faced evil woman?
> ...


 It sounds as if you've only watched the first episode. The answer to your first question was given on last night's episode.

I hope the remaining 3 eps remain at the same level, because so far I've found it really fucking good and compelling; and with far better acting than what has been seen in previous series.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2009)

ah. *runs away to see if ep 2 is uploaded online*


----------



## scifisam (Jul 8, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> ah. *runs away to see if ep 2 is uploaded online*




No need to hunt - it'll be on iplayer.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 8, 2009)

Captain Jackhead was moaning about the new format as he wanted a longer run. 

Personality I think the new plot / format is far more exciting than previously and can see why you couldn't stretch it out.


----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2009)

Agreed. A five-parter for a single story such as this seems as long as it should be.

The episodes are more refined too, from the filming style and look to the special effects, and had it been a 12+ episode series chances are it would have just  been like the old Torchwood.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 8, 2009)

reasonable rates for tours around the Torchwood locations for urban geeks, roll up roll up!

much better than it was.  Gwen (Eve Myles) is and always was sexy, proper Welsh girl sexy 

cracks me right up it does torchwood


----------



## Gromit (Jul 8, 2009)

The only problem is have they left themselves any room to climb. 

How do you top a personal attack to destroy torchwood by the government, Jack's predictaments and an alien attack that takes over the entire world's children?


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 8, 2009)

I want to hear Gwen say 'I want some cock'. Few things in the world quite so sexy as the way Welsh girls say 'cock'


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 8, 2009)

That's absolutely true as well. Good call!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> I want to hear Gwen say 'I want some cock'. Few things in the world quite so sexy as the way Welsh girls say 'cock'



so true.


Episode two was also scorchio!


I did enjoy Iagos B I L instigating an estate riot.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 8, 2009)

DotCommunist;9382282

I did enjoy Iagos B I L instigating an estate riot.[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Yep - that was clever.
> 
> Hope there is actually an interesting reason for the government deciding to destroy Torchwood and Jack. I haven't a clue myself.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 8, 2009)

I hope they keep this format for future years - it looks like a proper action/adventure show like 24 or Lost. Clearly stretching the budget over 13 episodes was too big a task - I'll never forget that bloody ridiculous "fight" between Owen and Death in series two. It looked they were waltzing...


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 8, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Yep - that was clever.
> 
> Hope there is actually an interesting reason for the government deciding to destroy Torchwood and Jack. I haven't a clue myself.


They were onto the secret from the early 60s of the Government doing a deal with the aliens - about the aliens taking the children from the children's home with Government compliance.

Gov'mint knew Torchwood were onto them because they'd picked up 'on intercept' Torchwood referencing the proper name of matey from the nuthouse, who would also have been taken had he not done a runner.

Least that's what I thought . . .


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> They were onto the secret from the early 60s of the Government doing a deal with the aliens - about the aliens taking the children from the children's home with Government compliance.
> 
> Gov'mint knew Torchwood were onto them because they'd picked up 'on intercept' Torchwood referencing the proper name of matey from the nuthouse, who would also have been taken had he not done a runner.
> 
> Least that's what I thought . . .



that's what I got. Although it seems out of character for the gov. not to just let Torchwood in on it and cry for halp. But Minister blokey does seem to be running this sans UNIT assistance and seems well out of his depth.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 8, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> that's what I got. Although it seems out of character for the gov. not to just let Torchwood in on it and cry for halp. But Minister blokey does seem to be running this sans UNIT assistance and seems well out of his depth.



I liked the way the death sentence was delivered - a blank page.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 8, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> that's what I got. *Although it seems out of character for the gov. not to just let Torchwood in on it and cry for halp.* But Minister blokey does seem to be running this sans UNIT assistance and seems well out of his depth.



Consistency is not a Torchwood strongpoint


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 8, 2009)

Ohhhhhhh LC! Sounds good! 



That was clever, scifisam, eh


----------



## fogbat (Jul 8, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I liked the way the death sentence was delivered - a blank page.



All cool until the day the printer fucks up, and several hundred people are executed by government assassins before the mistake is noticed


----------



## scifisam (Jul 8, 2009)

fogbat said:


> All cool until the day the printer fucks up, and several hundred people are executed by government assassins before the mistake is noticed



I thought that.  

Maybe it explains Jill Dando.


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Jul 8, 2009)

Just caught up on the last two episodes, very good, not long till part three.

One thing that I thought about, the 456 network.

4+5+6=15 which would be about the age cut off of the kids receiving the message.


----------



## pigtails (Jul 8, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> I want to hear Gwen say 'I want some cock'. Few things in the world quite so sexy as the way Welsh girls say 'cock'



cock


----------



## pigtails (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm sooooooooooooo excited only a few minutes to go!


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 8, 2009)

*squeaks*
5 mins!!


You welsh too, pigtails? Where you at?!


----------



## pigtails (Jul 8, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> *squeaks*
> 5 mins!!
> 
> 
> You welsh too, pigtails? Where you at?!



We've had this conversation before  you never listen to me 




I'm in Cardiff - home of torchwood 


(I nearly put touchwood then! )


----------



## Gromit (Jul 8, 2009)

Piglet is in fact Gwen and works under Cardiff Bay, well did until they blew it up. Oh noes Piglet!


----------



## pigtails (Jul 8, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Piglet is in fact Gwen and works under Cardiff Bay, well did until they blew it up. Oh noes Piglet!



nice one Gromit, I'm on the fucking run you numpty!


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 8, 2009)

pigtails said:


> We've had this conversation before  you never listen to me
> I'm in Cardiff - home of torchwood
> (I nearly put touchwood then! )



I forget! Soz...  Always think you're in Londinium or summin....


----------



## pigtails (Jul 8, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> I forget! Soz...  Always think you're in Londinium or summin....



I know, I give off that big city sophisticated vibe


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 8, 2009)

Ya sure do lady! 

OMG ITS ON!! 
*jumps on to sofa*


----------



## pigtails (Jul 8, 2009)

I *heart* Jack


Cheesey as fuck and great!


----------



## scifisam (Jul 8, 2009)

God, that woman soldier is a Magnificent Bastard. 

Jack's daughter was well trained.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 8, 2009)

It's good.


----------



## pigtails (Jul 8, 2009)

OMG they're HERE!!!!


----------



## Balbi (Jul 8, 2009)

My live stream cut out about four minutes ago. I'll iplayer it tomorrow.

How fucking amazing is Peter Capaldi


----------



## scifisam (Jul 8, 2009)

Of course, it was obvious Captain Jack was involved in giving the children over, but they played it out well.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 8, 2009)

It was?!?!? I'm like   cos I didn't see that coming 


OMGZ!!!111!!
(where's Rutita's OMG/OHNOES smilie)


----------



## pigtails (Jul 8, 2009)

Oh it's good!!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2009)

I lay money on Minister bloke dyeing, after an act of heroism..

e2a

he looks more and more Demon Headmaster/Jack Straw-ish


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 8, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> It was?!?!? I'm like   cos I didn't see that coming



I didn't either, though not all that shocked, he just has to be a contrary bugger. I'm dying to hear his explanation though.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 8, 2009)

Yeh can't WAIT til tomorrow *bounce*


----------



## GoneCoastal (Jul 8, 2009)

That was a good episode!


----------



## scifisam (Jul 8, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I lay money on Minister bloke dyeing, after an act of heroism..
> 
> e2a
> 
> he looks more and more Demon Headmaster/Jack Straw-ish



My GF thought he was the demon headmaster at first, but yeah, he is very Jack Straw too - hadn't noticed that.



gnoriac said:


> I didn't either, though not all that shocked, he just has to be a contrary bugger. I'm dying to hear his explanation though.



Maybe it was either those 12 voluntarily or the whole Earth after a fight. 

The X-Files mytharc included the exact same premise.


----------



## GoneCoastal (Jul 8, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Maybe it was either those 12 voluntarily or the whole Earth after a fight.


My thoughts too - the conversation between Capt Jack & Frobisher where he (Capt Jack) said: "How do you know you can trust them ? They've come back" (or summat like that)


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 8, 2009)

Am really enjoying this although i think the alien is going to be a bit shite !


----------



## colacubes (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm gonna have nightmares


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 8, 2009)

I liked the shorthand, reading, lip reading, texting, laptop, contact lenses thing. And Mr 10% splashing around like a drunk painter and decorator - good old BBC/Dr Who special effects . . . 

Even 'lactose intolerance' sounds interesting in Welsh. Like. Mon.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 8, 2009)

This actually is awesome, which makes it totally unlike previous torchwood - which was alright, veering towards bobbins.

I was pleased to spot Commissioner Loeb from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight as the Yank general


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 8, 2009)

That wouldn't be a coincidence. There's a lot of Batman in the first 2 hours, imo.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 8, 2009)

Gratuitous Doctor reference though 

"Yes, I felt it"

"shit"


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 8, 2009)

It's got those references but it feels like a Buffy sensibility - teenage yet more.


----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2009)

mentalchik said:


> Am really enjoying this although i think the alien is going to be a bit shite !


 It works much better when they just don't show it to you doesn't it? I hope they keep it out of sight for as long as possible, because in most cases the creature turns out to be a bit of a disappointment once you see it.

Another good episode. I'm liking the the spy contact lenses


----------



## Gromit (Jul 8, 2009)

[spoiler)The creature is in fact really hideous and scary looking because it is in reality not an alien but Peter Mandleson(/spoiler]


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 9, 2009)

Haven't seen last night's episode yet but I wouild justr like the refer to Episode 2, which I did wartch last night, and say Capt. Jack's bottom.

In fact I will say it again *CAPT JACK'S BOTTOM*. That is all

P.S. Did anyone else want to smack it like I did


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 9, 2009)

Wan't too impressed with last night's.  I mean,  it's alright, and a bit enjoyable.  But it's just not right.

I suppose I just really don't get on with Russel T Davis that much.  I like silly fluffy fun.  But this is just a bit too silly.  Something just  isn't right,  and I think it's Mr Davis.


----------



## treelover (Jul 9, 2009)

The woman who plays the evil leather clad killer is Lucy Cohu, she played (brilliantly) Princess Margaret in a CH4 Drama, the guy who wrote the second episode, John Fay, who also wrote Mobile and for Corrie was a colleague of mine on a Community Arts course in Liverpool, a real working class Jimmy McGovern type.

btw, personally I think last nights episode was stretching it a bit, how long does it take to say hello to an alien!


----------



## foo (Jul 9, 2009)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Haven't seen last night's episode yet but I wouild justr like the refer to Episode 2, which I did wartch last night, and say Capt. Jack's bottom.
> 
> In fact I will say it again *CAPT JACK'S BOTTOM*. That is all
> 
> P.S. Did anyone else want to smack it like I did



me! 

i'm getting hooked on this. 

can someone tell me, this series is called The Children right? have there been other series that lead up to this one? and if yes,  can i still get hold of them on watch again things d'you reckon?


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> The woman who plays the evil leather clad killer is Lucy Cohu, she played (brilliantly) Princess Margaret in a CH4 Drama, the guy who wrote the second episode, John Fay, who also wrote Mobile and for Corrie was a colleague of mine on a Community Arts course in Liverpool, a real working class Jimmy McGovern type.
> 
> btw, personally I think last nights episode was stretching it a bit, how long does it take to say hello to an alien!





T & P said:


> Are you talking about the leather-clad hitwoman, or the older lady who works at the Home Office building?
> 
> Here's the bio about the former
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0108510/


----------



## treelover (Jul 9, 2009)

Ooops, major fail there, Lucy Cohu plays the mother, Alice, who has a thing for CJ!


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 9, 2009)

I thought last nights ep was  I'm actually enjoying Torchwood!!


----------



## fogbat (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> Ooops, major fail there, Lucy Cohu plays the mother, Alice, *who has a thing for* CJ!



"has a thing for" = "is the daughter of".


----------



## treelover (Jul 9, 2009)

er, I'll leave the thread now.....


----------



## fogbat (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> er, I'll leave the thread now.....





I think I love Lucy Cohu, btw


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> I think last nights episode was stretching it a bit


Stretching it? Steady! The protocol joke/dig was made and then underlined so def fair enough

I'm interested in why the aliens want the children - it can't be to build a planet of hybrid drunk painter and decorators. 

I suppose taking children has historically represented the most evil of evil doing - the flashback to 1965 has the children being driven out onto the Moors to be taken, which has it's own particualr history  - but I'm hoping RTD comes up with something absurd like Starship Troopers.

btw, does this remind you of anything:


----------



## treelover (Jul 9, 2009)

yes, Torchwood is imo unashamedly Po Mo, taking bits from everywhere, it doesn't have the same moral core as Doctor Who does either.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> btw, personally I think last nights episode was stretching it a bit, how long does it take to say hello to an alien!



If aliens really did turn up, then i'd expect the diplomats to take their sweet time. They're walking on eggshells- one misworded statement and you might inadvertently have insulted their grandmother. Then they blow up the sun.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> Ooops, major fail there, Lucy Cohu plays the mother, Alice, who has a thing for CJ!



And major fail there too.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 9, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I'm interested in why the aliens want the children - it can't be to build a planet of hybrid drunk painter and decorators.



They're paedophiles and the original 12 are now too old to interest them?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 9, 2009)

Is it me, or did the alien really kick off with the snarling and snot when Frobisher said "human race"? 

I think it's one of the kiddies, all growed up. And horribly mutated.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 9, 2009)

I think you may be right.


----------



## T & P (Jul 9, 2009)

It's a shame they didn't call the aliens the 419s instead of the 456...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 9, 2009)

the beastie inna tank of smoke did make me think of a Guild Navigator from lynch's Dune, only less epic


----------



## fogbat (Jul 9, 2009)

"I took the lenses home. For, er, fun."


----------



## Iguana (Jul 9, 2009)

foo said:


> i'm getting hooked on this.
> 
> can someone tell me, this series is called The Children right? have there been other series that lead up to this one? and if yes,  can i still get hold of them on watch again things d'you reckon?



It's called The Children of Earth.  There were two other Torchwood series of 13 episodes each, but the first series was crap and the 2nd series was better as it had a lot of Jack snogging James Masters.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 9, 2009)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Haven't seen last night's episode yet but I wouild justr like the refer to Episode 2, which I did wartch last night, and say Capt. Jack's bottom.
> In fact I will say it again *CAPT JACK'S BOTTOM*. That is all
> P.S. Did anyone else want to smack it like I did


Heh it was quite peachy wasn't it! 



fogbat said:


> "I took the lenses home. For, er, fun."


----------



## treelover (Jul 9, 2009)

> If aliens really did turn up, then i'd expect the diplomats to take their sweet time. They're walking on eggshells- one misworded statement and you might inadvertently have insulted their grandmother. Then they blow up the sun




yeah, no releasing of doves for instance( Mars Attacks!)


----------



## Gromit (Jul 9, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I'm interested in why the aliens want the children - it can't be to build a planet of hybrid drunk painter and decorators.


 
They got a lot of chimneys that need sweeping.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 9, 2009)

The 456's version of Delia has just cooked a recipe which includes Earthling Child. Demand has skyrocketed.

The aliens who've arrived are reps from an intergalactic Sainsburys.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 9, 2009)

Much improved Torchwood.

I like the way they’ve exaggerated the availability  CCTV. 

Interesting to note RTD up-sticks and moves to the USA the week before this is broadcast. 

Any info on his co-writer?


----------



## Cloo (Jul 9, 2009)

I think it’s better than the series because the series spent too much time fannying around with not-very-interesting character dynamics between not-very-interesting characters like Tosh and whatsisface who, sensibly, they also killed off. 

Another problem was that Jack was so central because he’s just too damn smug to be a good leading man… Children of Earth has benefitted by sidelining him a bit (it did seemed to weaken a little when he moved toward centre stage last night)

It has really ratcheted up the tension nicely – unfortunately we’re going to dinner at the in-laws’ tomorrow, and while usually we could have all watched it afterwards at theirs with them, they have guests! But maybe they’ll want to watch it too. 

Otherwise, we’ll just have to catch up on the weekend!


----------



## fucthest8 (Jul 9, 2009)

It's alright and yes, a bit better than the two series, but I always feel like it's neither fish nor fowl - prefer Dr Who every time or will read Iain Banks if I want some proper sci-fi. Torchwood is just a bit shit really, like bad Dr Who with a bit more snogging.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 9, 2009)

Cloo said:


> I think it’s better than the series because the series spent too much time fannying around with not-very-interesting character dynamics between not-very-interesting characters like Tosh and whatsisface who, sensibly, they also killed off.



Yep, I've hardly given Tosh and Owen a second thought. It's better off without them...


----------



## pigtails (Jul 9, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> Yep, I've hardly given Tosh and Owen a second thought. It's better off without them...



Definitely, I did like the 'dead' owen though


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 9, 2009)

pigtails said:


> I did like the 'dead' owen though


Me too


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 9, 2009)

WE ARE  . . . GETTING READY


----------



## pigtails (Jul 9, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> WE ARE  . . . GETTING READY



Yay!!!
I'm so excited!!

can't believe I'm out tomorrow and won't get to see it till saturday morning!


----------



## pigtails (Jul 9, 2009)

IT'S STARTING!!!!
woo!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 9, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> Yep, I've hardly given Tosh and Owen a second thought. It's better off without them...



Yark! I had a bit of a crush on Tosh...


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 9, 2009)

Go Lois!


----------



## pigtails (Jul 9, 2009)

I like her!!!


----------



## pigtails (Jul 9, 2009)

Nooooooooooooooo!!!!


Gutted about Ianto


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 9, 2009)

Pretty bleak. Quite how the fuck they get out of that one...

Loved the bit about school league tables btw.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 9, 2009)

Good God, that was emotionally wrenching. It's actually made me cry - not Ianto dying, but that conversation about which kids to take.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 9, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Loved the bit about school league tables btw.



That was a masterstroke by RTD.

Very New Labour (the Tories by comparison would've come up with that idea immediately).


----------



## treelover (Jul 9, 2009)

> Any info on his co-writer?



I posted earlier, John Fay, Liverpool Irish from Kirby, he wrote for Corrie and other Granada projects, like Jimmy Mcgovern he is a socialist and very very principled, i was wondering when he would show his politics, i didn't expect it to be so blatant though: a 'class struggle hand grenade' indeed, only the bottom 10% of children would be sacrificed by the NL regime: future 'dolies, addicts, scroungers', to be determined by school league tables, searing incisive stuff, alistair campbell will be fuming....


----------



## scifisam (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> I posted earlier, John Fay, Liverpool Irish from Kirby, he wrote for Corrie and other Granada projects, like Jimmy Mcgovern he is a socialist and very very principled, i was wondering when he would show his politics, i didn't expect it to be so blatant though: a 'class struggle hand grenade' indeed, only the bottom 10% of children would  be sacrificed.



I think it's very realistic that they might make that decision.


Now we know why it's on post-watershed, eh? Thank fuck my daughter wasn't watching.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Jul 9, 2009)

Ianto cant be dead!!!!!! im really into this must admit


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 9, 2009)

Where is The Doctor when all this is going on?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 9, 2009)

Lots of tonights episode was filmed where I used to work. 

Mental seeing the doors of so called Thames house slamming shut and knowing that I used to walk through those doors every day.


----------



## pigtails (Jul 9, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Lots of tonights episode was filmed where I used to work.
> 
> Mental seeing the doors of so called Thames house slamming shut and knowing that I used to walk through those doors every day.



Innit!!!
Long time since I've been in CP2, got a bit nostalgic!


----------



## Gromit (Jul 9, 2009)

pigtails said:


> Innit!!!
> Long time since I've been in CP2, got a bit nostalgic!



Aye but it was the CP1 bits that freaked me. I already knew they'd done some filming in CP2.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 9, 2009)

jer said:


> Yark! I had a bit of a crush on Tosh...


Same here, but that Lois is well alright IMHO.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Jul 9, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Lots of tonights episode was filmed where I used to work.
> 
> Mental seeing the doors of so called Thames house slamming shut and knowing that I used to walk through those doors every day.



cool!!!!!


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 9, 2009)

also liked the 'we'll call it a vaccination' nod to the conspiraloons...


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 9, 2009)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!! Ianto!!


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## London_Calling (Jul 9, 2009)

It's not often I laugh out loud at tv but that stuff about league tables was brilliant.

Second best was the death scene, which was about an inch away from 'the wind beneath my wings' in Beaches.


Where does the blood coming out of ears and nose come from . . . can't quite . . .


----------



## Brockway (Jul 9, 2009)

Not a _Torchwood_ fan but have been watching this run. That scene with the politicians discussing the criteria for choosing the 10% of kids was pure class. _That _woman, what a bitch - wanted to kill her. 

Anyone else automatically place their relatives in the scummer 10% when they heard the criterion? I was thinking: there goes my nephews and neices...


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 9, 2009)

That was genuinely bloody brilliant - who'd have thought crappy old Torchwood could ever be that good. I'll be amazed if Ianto stays dead though and wouldn't be surprised to see hard soldier bitch woman from hell become a regular character - she's ace.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 9, 2009)

Brockway said:


> Not a _Torchwood_ fan but have been watching this run. That scene with the politicians discussing the criteria for choosing the 10% of kids was pure class. _That _woman, what a bitch - wanted to kill her.
> 
> Anyone else automatically place their relatives in the scummer 10% when they heard the criterion? I was thinking: there goes my nephews and neices...



My daughter's primary school is lovely, but doesn't do so well in league tables; I think she'd be in that 10%. My school as a kid would have been in that 10% without a doubt. Makes you shiver.

(Actually, her school's so small that an individual's results can have a huge effect on the results, so they swing up and down - last year they didn't do well, but this year I think they will do. Bit late, of course).


----------



## Brockway (Jul 9, 2009)

scifisam said:


> My daughter's primary school is lovely, but doesn't do so well in league tables; I think she'd be in that 10%. My school as a kid would have been in that 10% without a doubt. Makes you shiver.
> 
> .



Everyone in my junior school would have be alien fodder.


----------



## Maggot (Jul 9, 2009)

Did anyone else think that the aliens limb looked like Nankers cock?


----------



## pigtails (Jul 9, 2009)

Maggot said:


> Did anyone else think that the aliens limb looked like Nankers cock?


----------



## Maggot (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> a 'class struggle hand grenade' indeed, only the bottom 10% of children would be sacrificed by the NL regime: future 'dolies, addicts, scroungers', to be determined by school league tables, searing incisive stuff, alistair campbell will be fuming....


 Did they say which party was in govt?


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 9, 2009)

I was trying to think how this would be resolved. The only obvious thing that came to mind was the Independence Day idea of turning the virus back on them. The boffin feller who climbed in the suit might still be around to twiddle some dials, Peter Capaldi could make the ultimate sacrifice and Jack would obviously be heroic - problem is, we still don't know why they want the children . . .

Evil Woman might even be lured into Torchwood to replace Ianto, probably wishful thinking. I suppose it would be the secretary with the lenses.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 9, 2009)

treelover said:


> I posted earlier, John Fay, Liverpool Irish from Kirby, he wrote for Corrie and other Granada projects, like Jimmy Mcgovern he is a socialist and very very principled, i was wondering when he would show his politics, i didn't expect it to be so blatant though: a 'class struggle hand grenade' indeed, only the bottom 10% of children would be sacrificed by the NL regime: future 'dolies, addicts, scroungers', to be determined by school league tables, searing incisive stuff, alistair campbell will be fuming....



I said to my wife during wednesday's episode "they're going to want more kids, and the politicians will find some way to stick it to the working class and make sure their own little darlings don't get selected, you mark my words!"


----------



## pigtails (Jul 9, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> Evil Woman might even be lured into Torchwood to replace Ianto, probably wishful thinking. I suppose it would be the secretary with the lenses.



I thought it might be both, Jack and his Hareem!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 9, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> That was genuinely bloody brilliant - who'd have thought crappy old Torchwood could ever be that good. I'll be amazed if Ianto stays dead though and wouldn't be surprised to see hard soldier bitch woman from hell become a regular character - she's ace.



She's got bollocks the size of cannonballs, that one!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 9, 2009)

Maggot said:


> Did they say which party was in govt?



With the Prime Minister called Green (I mean, can we think of another Prime Minister with a surname that's a colour, hmmm? ), I think it's fairly obvious, and that odious spinner had the Mandelson sliminess totally down-pat.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 9, 2009)

I think the evil one should stay kinda evil-ish. She is goooooooooood at it. Would ruin her if she turned good....
Bring on Lois! 

Ohh I hope Ianto isn't really, proper deaded.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 9, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I was trying to think how this would be resolved. The only obvious thing that came to mind was the Independence Day idea of turning the virus back on them. The boffin feller who climbed in the suit might still be around to twiddle some dials, Peter Capaldi could make the ultimate sacrifice and Jack would obviously be heroic - problem is, we still don't know why they want the children . . .


Perhaps to graft onto more of their race? Maybe a human graft gives them longevity or disease resistance or something along those lines?


> Evil Woman might even be lured into Torchwood to replace Ianto, probably wishful thinking. I suppose it would be the secretary with the lenses.


Well, they've got Tosh and Owen to replace, so perhaps Torchwood is going to become a bastion of git-'ard womanhood?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 9, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> I think the evil one should stay kinda evil-ish. She is goooooooooood at it. Would ruin her if she turned good....
> Bring on Lois!
> 
> Ohh I hope Ianto isn't really, proper deaded.



Perhaps they're looking for a character who's a bit of a moral blank slate, like Owen was supposed to be.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 9, 2009)

Good point. That could be interesting 


Don't fuck with the girls!


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## Stigmata (Jul 9, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> Perhaps to graft onto more of their race? Maybe a human graft gives them longevity or disease resistance or something along those lines?



Hmm. Like the parasite Ianto and Jack took out of that guy in the first episode...


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> Hmm. Like the parasite Ianto and Jack took out of that guy in the first episode...



Yeah - that can't be random, can it? I mean, in a bad show it could be, but this is turning out to be a really _good_ show. The comparison to the parasite alien has turned up already with the child grafted to the alien, but there might be more to it. 

The director - who has a dead cool name, Euros Lyn - has to be given a lot of credit for how well this is turning out. Little things like the symbolic red clothing and blankets (even if one of the civil servants tonight did look like she was wearing George Galloway's catsuit) do change your perception of a show without you really realising it. Tonight's episode felt very realistic; they didn't for all the shots that could tug at your heart strings, because that would have been overegging it with the subject matter.  

Yup, I'm impressed.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

Brockway said:


> Everyone in my junior school would have be alien fodder.



Yeah. Who knew going to a bad school could have repercussions _that_ bad? Even if you're bright and do well personally, going to a bad school means you're one step away from being grafted to an alien's arse. No wonder parents try to fiddle the system!


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## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

That has just solidified my resolve to homeschool.


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## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

Iguana said:


> That has just solidified my resolve to homeschool.



Yeah - homeschoolers and those with kids under school age are safe.


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## Wilf (Jul 10, 2009)

*In this week of all weeks*

So, this inhuman hideous thing wants to get its claws on the children...


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## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

4thwrite said:


> So, this inhuman hideous thing wants to get its claws on the children...



It's definitely had plastic surgery, too.


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## Wilf (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> It's definitely had plastic surgery, too.



dunno, couldn't see for all the Bubbles in the tank


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## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

I just went on a Torchwood messageboard to see if anyone had any ideas about how the aliens could be beaten, and man oh man, it's interesting to see fandom from an outsider's perspective. The episode made me cry because of the prospect of millions of children dying - for then, it was _only_ Ianto's death that made them cry. 

Actually, they seem to have seen a special version of the episode in which nothing happened except Ianto dying.  I skimmed through a thread of over 200 posts, and only one of them mentioned anything else from the episode at all (and he seemed to have watched a different episode as well, because he said that the female minister was standing up for the children). 

Some of them have now vowed to never watch Torchwood again, and have accused RTD of being homophobic.  

Good Lord. That's one fandom I am avoiding.

I mean, I was annoyed when they killed off Donna and haven't watched Who since, but at least I was able to acknowledge that her death wasn't the only event in that episode. 



4thwrite said:


> dunno, couldn't see for all the Bubbles in the tank




 And there _were_ all those rumours about an oxygen tank ....


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## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

I forgot about the failed asylum seekers  (which might also be a decent name for a New Seekers tribute band) "They won't be missed". 

It's amusing to have Cabinet politicians talking candidly as you know they must think.

Taking the asylum seeker angle further, it might have been interesting to have gone for the racist angle given the BNP's recent success rather than school league tables; perhaps excluding children with indiginous parentage. That would have generated some reflection.


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## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I forgot about the failed asylum seekers (which might also be a decent name for a New Seekers tribute band) "They won't be missed".
> 
> It's amusing to have Cabinet politicians talking candidly as you know they must think.
> 
> Taking the asylum seeker angle further, it might have been interesting to have gone for the racist angle given the BNP's recent success rather than school league tables; perhaps excluding children with indiginous parentage. That would have generated some reflection.


 But wouldn't have made much sense. The BNP aren't in power.


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## Balbi (Jul 10, 2009)

They killed my Ianto.


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## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

madzone said:


> But wouldn't have made much sense. The BNP aren't in power.


If we were to talk seriously about the preposterous for a minute; if a politician - obviously looking for the minimal political damage to themselves -  had the choice between children at the bottom 10% of failing schools  (regardless of the childs ability) or . . . children of a non-indigenous background, which of those would the politician think would be the most expedient, the most acceptable to the general population of the UK as it is today?

Reference the ‘middle brow’ tabloids and some red top tabloids. That would have been an interesting Cabinet discussion. Too brave for the BBC, I suspect.

As it is, morally speaking the whole 10% theme is already about a five minute bus ride from Auschwitz.


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## Balbi (Jul 10, 2009)

Can I just say again, how bloody awesome is 

a) this format

b) the storyline

It's reminsicent of the multi-parter Doctor Who's from the old days, you get much more development and depth in a multi-parter. Makes the previous two series' look like absolute crap


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## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> If we were to talk seriously about the preposterous for a minute; if a politician - obviously looking for the minimal political damage to themselves - had the choice between children at the bottom 10% of failing schools (regardless of the childs ability) or . . . children of a non-indigenous background, which of those would the politician think would be the most expedient, the most acceptable to the general population of the UK as it is today?
> 
> Reference the ‘middle brow’ tabloids and some red top tabloids. That would have been an interesting Cabinet discussion. Too brave for the BBC, I suspect.
> 
> As it is, morally speaking the whole 10% theme is already about a five minute bus ride from Auschwitz.


 
I'm bloody glad they didn't focus on race. It would have been clunky, laboured and daft. As it is it's sharp, uncomfortable viewing.


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## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

madzone said:


> I'm bloody glad they didn't focus on race. It would have been clunky, laboured and daft. As it is it's sharp, uncomfortable viewing.


Right, as compared with focusing on failed schools, filled as they are (from this political pov) with non-fee paying working class kids, likely to be at some stage of social disenfranchisement, social alienation, steeped in stereotyped estate culture and who – in terms of their importance to society – are seemingly one step up the ladder from failed asylum seekers in terms of expendability.


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## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> Right, as compared with focusing on failed schools, filled as they are with non-fee paying working class kids, likely to be at some stage of social disenfranchisement, social alienation, steeped in stereotyped estate culture and who – in terms of their importance to society – are seemingly one step up the ladder from failed asylum seekers.


 What?


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## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I mean, I was annoyed when they killed off Donna and haven't watched Who since, but at least I was able to acknowledge that her death wasn't the only event in that episode.



Donna's not dead!


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## likesfish (Jul 10, 2009)

my daughter has already been threatened with being alien fodder
 bet there were teachers up and down the land going 10% you need the list by tomorrow


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## Clair De Lune (Jul 10, 2009)

Looks like tonights episode is going to be scarily similar to the kind of nightmares I have. Running and fighting to keep my kids safe in a war type environment, I am going to be on the edge of my seat.


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## rhod (Jul 10, 2009)

Balbi said:


> you get much more development and depth in a multi-parter. Makes the previous two series' look like absolute crap



Totally agree with this. A couple of these 5-parters every year would be just the ticket.


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## Nine Bob Note (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> The episode made me cry because of the prospect of millions of children dying - for then, it was _only_ Ianto's death that made them cry.



The children weren't real. How can you be so heartless?


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## gnoriac (Jul 10, 2009)

Balbi said:


> Makes the previous two series' look like absolute crap



The previous two series *were* absolute crap. Well, not far off.


----------



## Leafster (Jul 10, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> With the Prime Minister called Green (I mean, can we think of another Prime Minister with a surname that's a colour, hmmm? ), I think it's fairly obvious, and *that odious spinner *had the Mandelson sliminess totally down-pat.


Anyone else notice that it was Nicholas Briggs who plays the voice of the Daleks etc. Nice to see him on screen for a change.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> and have accused RTD of being homophobic.


HAHAHAHAAAHAHHAHAA!! 



Balbi said:


> They killed .. Ianto.


Innit 



likesfish said:


> bet there were teachers up and down the land going 10% you need the list by tomorrow






rhod said:


> Totally agree with this. A couple of these 5-parters every year would be just the ticket.


Oh yes please!


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 10, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> The previous two series *were* absolute crap. Well, not far off.



I'd say series one was absolute crap with a noticeable improvement in two. This five-parter pisses all over everything that's gone before though.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 10, 2009)

Don't know if anyone's interested but Torchwood has done really well in the overnight ratings this week. The figure in brackets is the audience share.

Top overnights (Mon-Thu)

01 …. 8.8 (43.0%) …. Coronation Street (Mon 19:30) ITV1
02 …. 8.5 (39.2%) …. EastEnders (Mon 20:00) BBC1
03 …. 8.5 (38.4%) …. Coronation Street (Mon 20:30) ITV1
04 …. 8.2 (41.5%) …. Coronation Street (Wed 19:30) ITV
05 …. 7.4 (38.8%) …. EastEnders (Thu 19:30) BBC1
06 …. 6.5 (34.0%) …. Emmerdale (Mon 19:00) ITV1
*07 …. 6.2 (27.0%) …. Torchwood: Children of Earth (Thu 21:00) BBC1*
08 …. 6.1 (33.9%) …. Emmerdale (Wed 19:00) ITV1
*09 …. 5.9 (25.8%) …. Torchwood: Children of Earth (Mon 21:00) BBC1
10 …. 5.9 (27.1%) …. Torchwood: Children of Earth (Wed 21:00) BBC1*
11 …. 5.7 (32.0%) …. Emmerdale (Thu 19:00) ITV
*12 …. 5.6 (24.0%) …. Torchwood: Children of Earth (Tue 21:00) BBC1*
13 …. 5.3 (26.1%) …. Celebrity MasterChef (Thu 20:00) BBC1
14 …. 5.4 (29.9%) …. Regional News and Weather (Mon 18:30) BBC1
15 …. 5.0 (24.5%) …. BBC News at Ten (Mon 22:00) BBC1
16 …. 5.0 (24.4%) …. The Bill: Conviction - Breaking Point (Wed 20:00) ITV1
17 …. 4.9 (28.9%) …. Regional News and Weather (Wed 18:30) BBC1
18 …. 4.8 (24.1%) …. BBC News at Ten (22:00) BBC1
19 …. 4.8 (21.3%) …. Holby City (Tue 20:00) BBC1
20 …. 4.7 (21.2%) …. EastEnders (Tue 19:30) BBC1


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## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

What's most impressive is its highest audience was last night - they almost always drop after the week-long promo build up regardless. The slot helps, of course.

I suppose the BBC knew it was a winner, at least as best you can know.



andy2002 - do you have access to all the overnight ratings, just interested in one other that's not on the BARB free stats?


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> andy2002 - do you have access to all the overnight ratings, just interested in one other that's not on the BARB free stats?



I nicked them off www.gallifreybase.com - it's the new place for Doctor Who and Torchwood fans after Outpost Gallifrey closed down. Torchwood has its own section (called Torchwood Institute) and you'll find lots of ratings stuff in the threads devoted Children Of Men.

By the way, those ratings above don't include people watching in HD, on iPlayer or those who Sky+ it, so I'm guessing most of those figures will eventually rise to around 7 million.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> What's most impressive is its highest audience was last night - they almost always drop after the week-long promo build up regardless. The slot helps, of course.
> 
> I suppose the BBC knew it was a winner, at least as best you can know.
> 
> ...



Digitalspy has a ratings thread in TV programmes which always has the overnights the next day.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

andy - cheers.

It's giving Emmerdale a bit of a kicking and very little  outside major sport can do that these days. They'd go berserk at Television House if it reached Eastenders levels.


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## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 10, 2009)

I like Who but think Torchwood is a pile of shite. Should I have bothered with this?


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 10, 2009)

This series? Yeah. It's like 24 but with aliens.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 10, 2009)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> I like Who but think Torchwood is a pile of shite. Should I have bothered with this?



Up until now Torchwood has been a pile of shite. This is completely different though - well written, well acted, loads of twists and turns, and too many edge-of-your-seat moments to count.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2009)

I love the fact that they are staying true to the Captain Jack character. 

If you remember he started off as a time traveling crook. Deep down he has a selfish nature which rises to the surface at times. 

So we've seen him in a callous phase handing over kids. Then bravely saying fuck you to the aliens and then saying okay have the millions if kids just don't take Ianto.

Not how the ever so noble Doctor would do it


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 10, 2009)

The ratings are, indeed, excellent - almost on a par with those which Doctor Who usually achieves towards the end of each run, despite that having a much better timeslot.


----------



## treelover (Jul 10, 2009)

> Up until now Torchwood has been a pile of shite. This is completely different though - well written, well acted, loads of twists and turns, and too many edge-of-your-seat moments to count.




I always knew the writer, John Fay could deliver and would be famous one day


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 10, 2009)

I sobbed. Sorry sam, but it was when Ianto died. I don't have kids, so perhaps that's why I didn't cry over that. I was disgusted, but also fascinated to watch them go down that road, where it becomes an acceptable option. The emphasis on spin was marvellous.

The Ianto thing affected me so much I dreamt about it last night. In my dream all those who died in Thames House came back to life, something to do either with an antedote or some alien magic thing. Anyway, of course this meant Ianto came back to life too.

I really, really hope that happens.

You could see it coming though. What with all the emphasis on their relationship this series.


----------



## Brockway (Jul 10, 2009)

Nobody in Wales has been called 'Ianto' since that bloke wrote _How Green Was My Valley_ back in the Thirties. They should have called him Guto...


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

thud



_and IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII will alwayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys_ . . . .


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

Hah, offer them the poor kids. Spot on scripting.


----------



## Belushi (Jul 10, 2009)

Brockway said:


> Nobody in Wales has been called 'Ianto' since that bloke wrote _How Green Was My Valley_ back in the Thirties. They should have called him Guto...



I've got a cousin called Ianto


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2009)

Brockway said:


> Nobody in Wales has been called 'Ianto' since that bloke wrote _How Green Was My Valley_ back in the Thirties. They should have called him Guto...



Dunno if I should spill this but Ianto was going to do an interview on the radio station I vollunteer for. However he stopped answering his phone which has left the interviewer very disappointed. Now we know why though. Cause dead men don't answer phones!!!!!

He's got the guy who plays Gwen's hubby instead. That will be broadcasted tonight I think.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 10, 2009)

I thought Captain Jack was supposed to be gay?

But he has a daughter and grandson?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm going to set the projector up for tonights finale

Jack straw/demon headmaster and Mis 'feed 'em the poor' need to die.


I hope they don't bring Ianto back tbh, Reset buttons on human characters are annoying


----------



## Belushi (Jul 10, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> I thought Captain Jack was supposed to be gay?
> 
> But he has a daughter and grandson?



He's omnisexual, he'll do anything to anything.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> I thought Captain Jack was supposed to be gay?
> 
> But he has a daughter and grandson?



I thought he went both ways?


----------



## Chz (Jul 10, 2009)

All those kids pointing into the sky... The adults saying "Look! What is it?"

Unanimous response from our couch.

_"It's my finger!"_


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I hope they don't bring Ianto back tbh, Reset buttons on human characters are annoying



I've decided the ending is to going to be quite bleak so have given up on Ianto's resurrection. Sniff...


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm going to set the projector up for tonights finale


 
I'm disgustingly excited about tonight


----------



## Belushi (Jul 10, 2009)

Am I the only one who always thought Ianto was a shit character? I'm glad they've had a purge and (hopefully) are only keeping Captian Jack and the lovely Gwen, and some new characters.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> Hmm. Like the parasite Ianto and Jack took out of that guy in the first episode...



I have to admit, that *was* what gave me the idea that the 456 might be using humans for a similar purpose.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

Belushi said:


> Am I the only one who always thought Ianto was a shit character? I'm glad they've had a purge and (hopefully) are only keeping Captian Jack and the lovely Gwen, and some new characters.



I always thought he was nicely understated-in contrast to shouty welsh girl and I'm-still-on-stage Barrowman


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 10, 2009)

Belushi said:


> Am I the only one who always thought Ianto was a shit character? I'm glad they've had a purge and (hopefully) are only keeping Captian Jack and the lovely Gwen, and some new characters.



I think Ianto had grown into a pretty good character - funny, warm, brave and loyal. I couldn't help but like him.


----------



## Belushi (Jul 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> shouty welsh girl


----------



## Belushi (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm hoping they bring Ianto's chavvy brother in law in to the team


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> I thought Captain Jack was supposed to be gay?
> 
> But he has a daughter and grandson?



The guy who plays him is gay but they've made the character Bi so that he can play gay but leave it open for women who fancy him can imagine that he might shag them too. Thereby keeping the famale fan base open. Sneaky eh!


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 10, 2009)

Belushi said:


> I'm hoping they bring Ianto's chavvy brother in law in to the team



Yes, he's bloody ace. "I hear you're taking it up the arse now, Ianto!"


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2009)

Leafster said:


> Anyone else notice that it was Nicholas Briggs who plays the voice of the Daleks etc. Nice to see him on screen for a change.



He's turned up in an episode of Doctor Who too, I think.
Has a face made for his role in Torchwood though, doesn't he?


----------



## likesfish (Jul 10, 2009)

Gromit said:


> The guy who plays him is gay but they've made the character Bi so that he can play gay but leave it open for women who fancy him can imagine that he might shag them too. Thereby keeping the famale fan base open. Sneaky eh!



captain jack shags anything that moves including aliens


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> I have to admit, that *was* what gave me the idea that the 456 might be using humans for a similar purpose.



Do not be at all surprised if 456 are what the hitchhikers grow up to become. Hence the reason they wouldn't give their real name. 

Are we to assume that the latest virus is a new one and not the virus they already had the antidote for in 1944.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> Yes, he's bloody ace. "I hear you're taking it up the arse now, Ianto!"



Proper laugh out loud when he was hoying bricks at ianto's car 'we'll get em on the victory lap'


----------



## fogbat (Jul 10, 2009)

An old housemate of mine went to school with Eve Myles, who plays Gwen.

Apparently she's lovely IRL *swoon*


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Do not be at all surprised if 456 are what the hitchhikers grow up to become. Hence the reason they wouldn't give their real name.
> 
> *Are we to assume that the latest virus is a new one and not the virus they already had the antidote for in 1944*.



mutated Indonesian flu wouldn't kill with the sort of speed this new one did, I presume


----------



## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

In someways I wish this series was just a series by itself and not part of the Whoniverse.  When Jack was talking to the alien I just kept thinking if he said "Just so you know, this planet is under the protection of the Doctor, so go ahead and kill us all, but he will hunt you down and hurt you in ways you can't even imagine" that could be the end of it.  There was quite a good chance the aliens would have fucked off, all Rose needed to do was say Doctor to the Daleks and they all backed off from her.  And even if they weren't frightened of the doctor it was worth a shot.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 10, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> I think Ianto had grown into a pretty good character - funny, warm, brave and loyal. I couldn't help but like him.



Perfect character to kill off after 4 hours of builidng him up.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 10, 2009)

Aye, he's a good character - a few off beat moments with him too,

When Ianto was on the run, "ah, but we're the only family he's got see" to Ianto's sister on why they should take care of him.

"Where's Ianto Jones"

*turns over in bed* "He's not going to be here is he, i'm a married man!"


----------



## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

*turns over *completely naked* in bed* "He's not going to be here is he, i'm a married man!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Do not be at all surprised if 456 are what the hitchhikers grow up to become. Hence the reason they wouldn't give their real name.


Good point!


> Are we to assume that the latest virus is a new one and not the virus they already had the antidote for in 1944.


1965, and I doubt it. The antidote was for a form of flu that was already in the population but hadn't gone pandemic, and there wasn't any mention of it killing people within minutes rather than the usual days to weeks it takes influenza. I suspect that whatever they used at Thames House was something they cooked up after they had access to nearly a dozen specimens of pre-pubescent humanity.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 10, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Perfect character to kill off after 4 hours of builidng him up.



Yeah, and the 26 episodes before that


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 10, 2009)

Balbi said:


> Yeah, and the 26 episodes before that



Yes, but this series was a real Ianto build up job. Perfect really.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 10, 2009)

The guy who plays Ianto must have invested in some acting lessons at some point between the second series and this one.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> and Mis 'feed 'em the poor' need to die.


I just caught up with the tv State of Play a couple of weeks ago,  she was only the Minister's sec in that one so a spot of promotion since.

What do they want them for !!??


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

fogbat said:


> The guy who plays Ianto must have invested in some acting lessons at some point between the second series and this one.


I thought he maybe had _a slight_ Heath Ledger/Brokeback quality to his sexuality, quiet, unexpressive, and that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I just caught up with the tv State of Play a couple of weeks ago,  she was only the Minister's sec in that one so a spot of promotion since.
> 
> What do they want them for !!??



I'd guess at a few things:

pleasurable symbiosis- as mentioned by others. They could be like a drug to the aliens: Octavia Butler and othe sci fi types have done this sort of idea.

A vector of some sort. Perhaps for breeding, perhaps necessary to a certain growth stage in the life cycle.

perhaps to harvest brain chemicals/hormones that they have no access too (for whatever reason) but are necessary to thier survival.


----------



## Helen Back (Jul 10, 2009)

Anyone else notice a few similarities between this story and the early Pertwee one "The Ambassadors Of Death"? (Aliens kept in a glass holding area)


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

Blimey - hard core.


The boy who escaped - the mental patient now dead - might offer a clue; he seemingly didn't have anything to do with them back in 1965 yet they communicated with him as they have all the other children. That seems to undermine the dog whistle theory.

Another thing, why would the alien bring the child with him, unless he needed to . . . 

Lastly, I wonder if there was a clue in the alien repeating 'you did last time' (or whatever), in an almost child-like way. Could it be that the alien is, in fact, one of the taken children, now partly assimilated  DA DA !!!


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> Proper laugh out loud when he was hoying bricks at ianto's car 'we'll get em on the victory lap'



That bit where he told the local kids the government spooks were a pair of paedos was excellent.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> If we were to talk seriously about the preposterous for a minute; if a politician - obviously looking for the minimal political damage to themselves -  had the choice between children at the bottom 10% of failing schools  (regardless of the childs ability) or . . . children of a non-indigenous background, which of those would the politician think would be the most expedient, the most acceptable to the general population of the UK as it is today?
> 
> Reference the ‘middle brow’ tabloids and some red top tabloids. That would have been an interesting Cabinet discussion. Too brave for the BBC, I suspect.
> 
> As it is, morally speaking the whole 10% theme is already about a five minute bus ride from Auschwitz.



Talking seriously, I think people are far more likely to accept taking the bottom 10% of schools than going by race. It's also much easier to organise - that's one of the reasons they went for it. 

Surely I didn't misunderstand - it is the lowest 10% of schools, not kids, isn't it? Everyone else in this thread seems to think it's the kids, but that'd be bloody difficult to arrange. 



TheHoodedClaw said:


> Donna's not dead!



Sorry - I meant killed the character off.



Clair De Lune said:


> Looks like tonights episode is going to be scarily similar to the kind of nightmares I have. Running and fighting to keep my kids safe in a war type environment, I am going to be on the edge of my seat.



Heh. I have nightmares like that all the time too. 



Vintage Paw said:


> I sobbed. Sorry sam, but it was when Ianto died. I don't have kids, so perhaps that's why I didn't cry over that. I was disgusted, but also fascinated to watch them go down that road, where it becomes an acceptable option. The emphasis on spin was marvellous.
> 
> The Ianto thing affected me so much I dreamt about it last night. In my dream all those who died in Thames House came back to life, something to do either with an antedote or some alien magic thing. Anyway, of course this meant Ianto came back to life too.
> 
> ...



I understand people being upset about Ianto dying, but I couldn't understand the way they seemed to forget that anything else happened in the episode at all.



Gromit said:


> Do not be at all surprised if 456 are what the hitchhikers grow up to become. Hence the reason they wouldn't give their real name.



Possibly. Doubt it, though, what with the aliens requiring a different atmosphere to us.



London_Calling said:


> Blimey - hard core.
> 
> 
> The boy who escaped - the mental patient now dead - might offer a clue; he seemingly didn't have anything to do with them back in 1965 yet they communicated with him as they have all the other children. That seems to undermine the dog whistle theory.
> ...



It could be that, maybe. 

I wonder why they need children at all - and need to keep them as children once they're melded with the alien bodies. It doesn't even seem to be pre-pubescent children, despite what Gwen said to Clem about why he was left behind.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

BTW, did anyone else notice that the PM decided to exclude the children and grandchildren of all those _round this table_? Yeah, fuck any kids connected to the secretaries sitting separately and the security guards at the door.


----------



## llantwit (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Sorry - I meant killed the character off.


But she's not dead - he just wiped her recent memory and turned her back into an ordinary temp.
Nice echo in Lois Habiba being "just a temp" in the new Torchwood, too.
Also, it made me think of the linguistic connotations of "temp" as "time" in latinate languages, too. Clever stuff, this Whoniverse.


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm going to get some nibbles and nice drinks in for this


----------



## Balbi (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm going to watch it for breakfast tomorrow


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 10, 2009)

madzone said:


> I'm going to get *some nibbles* and nice drinks in for this



You still taking about threesomes


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Talking seriously, I think people are far more likely to accept taking the bottom 10% of schools than going by race. It's also much easier to organise - that's one of the reasons they went for it.


I just thought it a fascinating opportunity while we in the realm of fantasy horror. You speak from inner east London, I strongly suspect the views you hold aren't reflected across the shires and beyond. As a decision of political expediency . . .

As a writers device, I would really liked to have seen someone around that Cabinet table make the case - it's already bonkers mad, lets go all the way.


scifisam said:


> Surely I didn't misunderstand - it is the lowest 10% of schools, not kids, isn't it?


That's how I understood it, _school _league tables, not students -  that's what was amusing. Inner London schools, etc, not private schools.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> As a writers device, I would really liked to have seen someone around that Cabinet table make the case - it's already bonkers mad, lets go all the way.



Actually what I think they would have done as soon as the aliens weren't willing to accept 6700 children is asked them if the 10% could come from anywhere in the world.  If it was allowed they would have started contacting poorer nations and "bought" 325,000 children in exchange for debt forgiveness or trade agreements.  

Every single sacrificed child would come from Africa, Asia and South America.  And it would be spun in such a way as to give the impression that the lovely aliens had taken pity on the poorest children in the world and were taking them away to give them a better life.  Any parents objecting would simply be shot.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 10, 2009)

That makes a lot of sense. The aliens were demanding a quota per country though, so it might not have worked.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

Iguana said:


> Actually what I think they would have done as soon as the aliens weren't willing to accept 6700 children is asked them if the 10% could come from anywhere in the world.  If it was allowed they would have started contacting poorer nations and "bought" 325,000 children in exchange for debt forgiveness or trade agreements.
> 
> Every single sacrificed child would come from Africa, Asia and South America.  And it would be spun in such a way as to give the impression that the lovely aliens had taken pity on the poorest children in the world and were taking them away to give them a better life.  Any parents objecting would simply be shot.




Harsh, but likely.

But Doctor Who would save them in the end.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

Mark my words, it's key that: 'you did it before' repeated - naive aliens, repeating exactly the tactic of before and not understanding the resistance.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> But Doctor Who would save them in the end.



Well I did say that Jack should have tried mentioning that Earth was under the Doctor's protection.  It doesn't always work, but it scares the shit out of a lot of species.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I just thought it a fascinating opportunity while we in the realm of fantasy horror. You speak from inner east London, I strongly suspect the views you hold aren't reflected across the shires and beyond. As a decision of political expediency . . .
> 
> As a writers device, I would really liked to have seen someone around that Cabinet table make the case - it's already bonkers mad, lets go all the way.



With two black ministers at the table, I don't think anyone would have tried to make the case. The spin doctor guy also saw the aliens as an opportunity to get rid of future 'drains on public resources,' caring more about money than race. 

Besides, don't you think the public would be a bit quick to notice all the non-white kids disappearing? There are a LOT of non-white parents (from all different classes, many with money and power), and there'd be tons of resistance. OTOH, taking the kids from the worst performing schools wouldn't be immediately obvious, and those parents are generally the ones with the least power. 

If stealing kids from other countries isn't an option, which is indicated by the numbers the kids said, then I can totally see 'take the future benefit claimants' being the decision made.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 10, 2009)

Class prejudice is more socially acceptable than racism these days anyway.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> With two black ministers at the table, I don't think anyone would have tried to make the case. The spin doctor guy also saw the aliens as an opportunity to get rid of future 'drains on public resources,' caring more about money than race.


But you're the writer . . .  the least radical idea here is to have a Cabinet without ethnic representation.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

The fact of the matter is, that if it did get out after the fact, most people would be disgusted but would also be relieved.  Their method would have removed entire families for the most part, which leaves as many people as possible untouched.  If you found out that the whole world was under threat but the government had a solution that would leave you and everyone you know and need untouched, deep down you'd be want them to go ahead with it.  You'd know it was morally repugnant but everyone you love is ok and for most people that would be the over-riding feeling.

That was one of the things that was great about this episode.  The woman who suggested their plan was initially the most desperate to find a way of not complying.  She was the one calling them children and not units.  But once convinced that they must comply she wanted to find the solution that would cause the least impact to her personally and her way of life.


----------



## pigtails (Jul 10, 2009)

Balbi said:


> I'm going to watch it for breakfast tomorrow



me too!
I'm excited!!


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> But you're the writer . . .  the least radical idea here is to have a Cabinet without ethnic representation.



True, they could have written in an all-white cabinet. 

It still just doesn't seem very likely to me that they'd go for taking all the non-white kids: it'd be difficult to organise in the time span they had, it'd be really obvious what they were doing, there'd be opposition from all quarters including some very wealthy and powerful non-white parents, and  non-white kids wouldn't make 10%, anyway. 

The writers weren't being cowardly by going for the class rather than the race option; they were being realistic. 



Iguana said:


> The fact of the matter is, that if it did get out after the fact, most people would be disgusted but would also be relieved.  Their method would have removed entire families for the most part, which leaves as many people as possible untouched.  If you found out that the whole world was under threat but the government had a solution that would leave you and everyone you know and need untouched, deep down you'd be want them to go ahead with it.  You'd know it was morally repugnant but everyone you love is ok and for most people that would be the over-riding feeling.
> 
> That was one of the things that was great about this episode.  The woman who suggested their plan was initially the most desperate to find a way of not complying.  She was the one calling them children and not units.  But once convinced that they must comply she wanted to find the solution that would cause the least impact to her personally and her way of life.



Agreed. And yeah, she was an interesting character. They decided they had to get rid of some kids, so she pragmatically decided to get rid of the ones who were least likely to be 'productive members of society' in the future rather than just pick kids randomly. 

Funnily enough, though, I wouldn't call them bad people for making sure their own kids were safe no matter what happened. Having to sacrifice other people's children is horrible enough in itself, but they'd have to be inhuman to be willing to sacrifice their own kids.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 10, 2009)

Did anyone else notice that the one who played the cabinet minister who said that it should be none of their children, was also the sister in Cranford who would do anything for her "sisters health", including a dowry of four thousand pounds for the person to marry her sister?

What an actress!  She was nothing like the character from Cranford!


----------



## likesfish (Jul 10, 2009)

you'd think with the amount  aliens fucking about with planet earth.
 the news would get out its a bad idea a very bad idea.
 456 about to get wacked


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 10, 2009)

Iguana said:


> And it would be spun in such a way as to give the impression that the lovely aliens had taken pity on the poorest children in the world and were taking them away to give them a better life.



When they were talking about how they'd have to make a decision on who to send and then work out a way to spin it, that's *exactly* what I expected one of the cabinet ministers to come up with.

I think it says a lot about the way we view our politicians these days.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm going to set the projector up for tonights finale


PROJECTOR?! 
I'm coming to yours to watch it!! 



madzone said:


> I'm disgustingly excited about tonight


Me too 



scifisam said:


> The writers weren't being cowardly by going for the class rather than the race option; they were being realistic.


I agree.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

I wonder how my old secondary would have done if we had league tables in Ireland.  My school had a policy of accepting all pupils who applied so it was a pretty large school which had some of the highest performing classes in the country but also some of the lowest.


----------



## treelover (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm sure all this discussion on the perfidity of politicians, etc, was intended by the writer, but i imagine the 'hidden injuries' of class were even more central.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm still devestated about Ianto.

That is all.






*sob*


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> The writers weren't being cowardly


I don't know where "cowardly" comes from, I'm saying it was an interesting opportunity to set up a unique and challenging scenario that, even had the writers taken, the BBC likely wouldn't.


----------



## pigtails (Jul 10, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm still devestated about Ianto.
> 
> That is all.
> 
> ...



there, there


*sniff*

I can't quite believe that's it.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I don't know where "cowardly" comes from, I'm saying it was an interesting opportunity to set up a unique and challenging scenario that, even had the writers taken, the BBC likely wouldn't.



 A unique and challenging scenario that's far less realistic than the unique and challenging scenario they have now.


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> A unique and challenging scenario that's far less realistic than the unique and challenging scenario they have now.


 Exactly. It wouldn't have been half as engaging or believable IMO


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> PROJECTOR?!
> I'm coming to yours to watch it!!



change of plan. I'm going to a mates house to watch it.

ON HIS MASSIVE TELE.

Still not as big as my projector screen

But it's more fun with other people to boo and cheer with you


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> change of plan. I'm going to a mates house to watch it.
> 
> ON HIS MASSIVE TELE.
> 
> ...


 No, it's not - I want to be completely ALONE. Everyone else is being locked out till it's finished


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

If there's some sort of time-travelling reset to resolve it all, my scream of frustration will be audible in Norway.

(Well, actually, I've lost my voice, so it won't be audible to humans anywhere, but I imagine all the local dogs will cower in fear).


----------



## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

madzone said:


> No, it's not - I want to be completely ALONE. Everyone else is being locked out till it's finished



Yeah me too.  Great tv is never as all absorbing if someone else is with you.  If you are on your own it's much easier to pretend that it's real and throw yourself into it.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> If there's some sort of time-travelling reset to resolve it all, my scream of frustration will be audible in Norway.



Time travel resets are only good in Galaxy Quest.


----------



## Mr Smin (Jul 10, 2009)

In the sixties they settled for a dozen 'units', one (human) generation later they insist on millions? Since this is for grafting, that's some population growth at their end.
Or perhaps, unlike new labour, they are improving social equality on their world - now a grafted-on-child is not just for the wealthy, it's for everyone.


----------



## yardbird (Jul 10, 2009)

madzone said:


> I want to be completely ALONE. Everyone else is being locked out till it's finished



Same here.
HD and 5.1  no one allowed anywhere near!


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

Mr Smin said:


> In the sixties they settled for a dozen 'units', one (human) generation later they insist on millions? Since this is for grafting, that's some population growth at their end.
> Or perhaps, unlike new labour, they are improving social equality on their world - now a grafted-on-child is not just for the wealthy, it's for everyone.



Maybe it's because they have more fearsome weapons now. 

Course, they probably wouldn't stop at this 10% - they'd probably come back for more later.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 10, 2009)

((((Ianto)))



(((10% of children)))



Only another 35 mins. I'm excited!!


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

"realistic"


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> "realistic"




The human stuff has been really realistic so far.


----------



## ethel (Jul 10, 2009)

drug addicts  ace.


----------



## feyr (Jul 10, 2009)

oh my god, i am in floods of tears with this episode so far  

was that numbers on the bedroom door  at the ministers house?


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 10, 2009)

Looked like a kids name. Ours have similar stuff on theirs...

Clever.

Dekker's a bit of a bastard.


----------



## ethel (Jul 10, 2009)

fucking hell


----------



## agricola (Jul 10, 2009)

I cant understand how two series of metrosexual _Doctor Who_-lite has turned into this, one of the greatest things I have ever seen on TV.


----------



## ethel (Jul 10, 2009)

i'm glad that my raving about it after the BFI showing was justified


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

Anyone got John Barrowman's address? What a cunt.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 10, 2009)

Watched the last 20 mins of that to see what all the fuss was about, good stuff imo.


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 10, 2009)

Bloody hell !


----------



## Clair De Lune (Jul 10, 2009)

Well that was full on, had me in tears at one point!


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 10, 2009)

I hope that ending doesn't mean that's the end of Torchwood. 2 series of awful, now a week of utter awesomeness - we want more!!!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 10, 2009)

Ah, well now. That's put me in a cheery mood for the rest of the night.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 10, 2009)

OMG - we are kinda stunned here,

I never thought it would end so ... so... bleakly

Fantastic television. Really, really good.


----------



## YouSir (Jul 10, 2009)

Dark as fuck, don't think I've ever seen anything mainstream which went so grim with so little moralising; in fact not sure I've ever seen a child being killed on a mainstream show, let alone by the apparent good guys. Excellent, really really good. Almost bought a tear to my cynical eye even.


----------



## YouSir (Jul 10, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> I hope that ending doesn't mean that's the end of Torchwood. 2 series of awful, now a week of utter awesomeness - we want more!!!



I reckon there'll be more sooner or later, hard to top his run though, impossible even.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

Jesus fucking Christ. I want to personally murder that Prime Minister. 

I was whispering 'don't do it' to Jack even though he didn't really have a choice (and, well, he wouldn't have heard me anyway. Too far away).

It'd be interesting to see what kind of Britain would be left after the government tried to kill all the poor people's kids.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 10, 2009)

YouSir said:


> Dark as fuck, don't think I've ever seen anything mainstream which went so grim with so little moralising; in fact not sure I've ever seen a child being killed on a mainstream show, let alone by the apparent good guys. Excellent, really really good. Almost bought a tear to my cynical eye even.



Yeah, that's what made it so good, not just your traditional boring happy ending.


----------



## magneze (Jul 10, 2009)

Bloody hell. That was intense. 

Only watched the last couple of episodes, looked like a good series..


----------



## YouSir (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Jesus fucking Christ. I want to personally murder that Prime Minister.
> 
> I was whispering 'don't do it' to Jack even though he didn't really have a choice (and, well, he wouldn't have heard me anyway. Too far away).
> 
> It'd be interesting to see what kind of Britain would be left after the government tried to kill all the poor people's kids.



Aye, would be cool if the next series is set in a chaotic, riot riddled Britain where everyone's at war against the government. Probably won't be of course given how Dr Who lives in the same sort of timeline.


----------



## magneze (Jul 10, 2009)

I half expected the Doctor to turn up before the end to save the day!


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 10, 2009)

YouSir said:


> I reckon there'll be more sooner or later, hard to top his run though, impossible even.



In some ways i hope they don't as this would be a good place to end it. I just can't kind of get over that ending. Very powerful.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Jesus fucking Christ. I want to personally murder that Prime Minister.



With 1 or 2 exceptions virtually all the main characters came out of that smelling of shit. 
Another 1st on television?


----------



## agricola (Jul 10, 2009)

magneze said:


> I half expected the Doctor to turn up before the end to save the day!



The last ten-fifteen minutes were, for me at least, a whole load of totally incorrect "well they / he wont do that..." moments.


----------



## feyr (Jul 10, 2009)

i dont think i have cried so much while watching a fictional program before !


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

QueenOfGoths said:


> OMG - we are kinda stunned here,
> I never thought it would end so ... so... bleakly
> Fantastic television. Really, really good.


Same here, fuckinell. Got knot in my stomach from it all. Wow, loved that. 

I reallly realllyyyy thought Jack's grandson might come back to life...u know...being Jack's grandson n all. . but fuck, he didn't.


----------



## agricola (Jul 10, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> With 1 or 2 exceptions virtually all the main characters came out of that smelling of shit.
> Another 1st on television?



PC Andy didnt...  I think I actually cheered when he waded in.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> With 1 or 2 exceptions virtually all the main characters came out of that smelling of shit.
> Another 1st on television?



Lois, maybe? I guess Gwen and Rhys couldn't do much more than try to save individual children. PC Andy, Ianto's sister and her husband - a fair few stayed true. Of course, even Jack did the 'right' thing, but it was bloody horrible. 

@feyr: Me too; I never usually cry at TV or the movies at all, but didn't stop till about ten minutes after this ended.


----------



## magneze (Jul 10, 2009)

agricola said:


> PC Andy didnt...  I think I actually cheered when he waded in.


Yeah, but the numpty took off his body armour! DOH!


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

I don't know about Jack doing the right thing


----------



## magneze (Jul 10, 2009)

If Jack _was _ doing the right thing, then wasn't the government also doing the right thing? Sacrifice of the few for the benefit of the many ...


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

magneze said:


> Yeah, but the numpty took off his body armour! DOH!



Yeah, that was really odd. 

I'm not sure why the female minister thinks she'll be in charge when she was the one who suggested getting rid of the poor kids, and that's all on tape too. I know they had to make a decision, but how could anyone in that room expect to survive once it was all made public? I mean _physically_ survive too, not just politically.


----------



## agricola (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Yeah, that was really odd.



maybe it was a metaphor for something... but then he has always been a bit daft.


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

agricola said:


> maybe it was a metaphor for something... but then he has always been a bit daft.


 It was him not being a policeman. He was struggling between being a policeman and being a man. The policeman needed to do what the army said, the man, the member of the community knew what they were doing was wrong


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

I think he took it all off cos it was his police uniform and he was being Andy not PC Andy.....




Edit - Snap! madz 


Edit2 - Snap! QOG


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Yeah, that was really odd.
> 
> I'm not sure why the female minister thinks she'll be in charge when she was the one who suggested getting rid of the poor kids, and that's all on tape too. I know they had to make a decision, but how could anyone in that room expect to survive once it was all made public? I mean _physically_ survive too, not just politically.





agricola said:


> maybe it was a metaphor for something... but then he has always been a bit daft.



I though it was meant to show him symbolically stripping away his allegiance to the state and the authorities - or maybe I'm reading too much into it


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I though it was meant to show him symbolically stripping away his allegiance to the state and the authorities - or maybe I'm reading too much into it


 No, you're right


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> I think he took it all off cos it was his police uniform and he was being Andy not PC Andy.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Great minds


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 10, 2009)

agricola said:


> maybe it was a metaphor for something... but then he has always been a bit daft.



Unburdening himself of his authoritarian shackleszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Fucking great moment though. 

So there's no way back for Torchwood after that is there, or at least no way back for Captain Jack in Cardiff.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

madzone said:


> Great minds


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

agricola said:


> maybe it was a metaphor for something... but then he has always been a bit daft.



Yep, obvious metaphor - he was changing sides.

From the side who are protected by technology made by the elites in order to oppress the people to . . . the people.

Bit fucking dark, the whole thing.  

I was sceptical about the 'whole series in a week' thing but it's worked so much better than the other stuff.


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

Fucking hell, I'm going to have to recite to myself twenty times 'That was not real, that was not real.....'


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 10, 2009)

madzone said:


> Great minds





Strumpet said:


>





I miss Ianto


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

FFS, a bunch of intergalactic drug addicts and slave traders 


Very clever, beautifully delivered.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

It was fukn brilliant! I want a week long story from Torchwood like this a couple of times a year. PLEASE!!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

My ex actually reckons there'll be complaints about these episodes because of it's dim view of authority.


----------



## madzone (Jul 10, 2009)

I think you'd struggle to produce something that good twice a year tbh. Maybe once a year at a push.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> It was fukn brilliant! I want a week long story from Torchwood like this a couple of times a year. PLEASE!!



Seconded.

Maybe there's a beeb email address . . .


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

What would the storyline be? Where could you go from there . . .


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

God, I must have been traumatised not to realise it was him deciding to be one of the people, not the state. Doh!


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 10, 2009)

8ball said:


> My ex actually reckons there'll be complaints about these episodes because of it's dim view of authority.





Excellent timing to stick the boot into politicos...


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> It was fukn brilliant! I want a week long story from Torchwood like this a couple of times a year. PLEASE!!



I'm not sure I could cope with that, myself. 

I can't think of many shows I've seen that are as bleak as that was; Threads is one of the few. 

You know, I feel quite sorry for the Torchwood fans who tuned in for a corny sci-fi show with lots of snuggly John/Ianto slash, and got this instead.

@Agricola: maybe in some ways, although they didn't really seem to try hard to think of alternatives. 

The Prime Minister, though - he was just fucking evil. 'I'm very busy.' Oooooh.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 10, 2009)

No more Torchwood, and no more Who appearances for Jack. Tainted goods. Can't stick him in a programme for kiddies.

DS seems to think he'll be in it over xmas, but it won't happen.

DVD is out on Monday, by the by. Hopefully the commentaries will feature all members of the Torchwood team, not the usual Who-style Davies/Lone Actor wankfest or the Sound Engineer/Tea Lady combo who comment as if they are watching for the first time as viewers.


----------



## Brockway (Jul 10, 2009)

Well that was borderline sick: shooting your own offspring; kidnapping kids; frying your own nephew for the greater good. Blimey!

Loved the children as drugs idea.

Felt myself reaching for my air baseball bat when the army were on the estate dragging off _our_ cheeky street urchins.

Great stuff and _Torchwood_ is normally so sh*t. Weird.


----------



## cybertect (Jul 10, 2009)

Fuck me, that was bleak 

and bloody brilliant.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

And what about Evil Woman, she deserves her own show.

No, her own empire!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> You know, I feel quite sorry for the Torchwood fans who tuned in for a corny sci-fi show with lots of snuggly John/Ianto slash, and got this instead.





I think I was one of those, tbf, but it was brilliant.

Torchwood was always one of those 'so bad it's good' things, but they've blindsided us by making something that was _actually_ good.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> And what about Evil Woman, she deserves her own show.
> 
> No, her own empire!



Hmm, Evil Woman, Gwen and Lois.

Now, there's something to think about


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> And what about Evil Woman, she deserves her own show.
> 
> No, her own empire!



I cheered when she shot Head Geek in the leg.


----------



## ChrisC (Jul 10, 2009)

Brilliant week of Torchwood there. Well done BBC for being really good at something. I could have been so cheesy.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

8ball said:


> I cheered when she shot Head Geek in the leg.



That's the sort of thing I usually really want TV characters to do, and they never do - another plus for this episode.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

ChrisC said:


> Brilliant week of Torchwood there. Well done BBC for being really good at something. *I could have been so cheesy.*


----------



## Brockway (Jul 10, 2009)

madzone said:


> Anyone got John Barrowman's address? What a cunt.



He lives in Sully.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> That's the sort of thing I usually really want TV characters to do, and they never do - another plus for this episode.



I was also well on side with Head Geek for continuing to help them after the leg shot, though.  Takes a bigger man than me . .


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

That was just foreplay.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I'm not sure I could cope with that, myself.
> I can't think of many shows I've seen that are as bleak as that was; Threads is one of the few.


I know what you mean but fukn great telly. I could cope a couple of times a year but as others have said...how do u top that? Where does it go from there...?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> I know what you mean but fukn great telly. I could cope a couple of times a year but as others have said...how do u top that? Where does it go from there...?



Aye.  They had the same problem with Buffy.

<gets coat>


----------



## MikeMcc (Jul 10, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Hmm, Evil Woman, Gwen and Lois.
> 
> Now, there's something to think about


Aye, I don't think they could broadcast it though!


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

8ball said:


> I was also well on side with Head Geek for continuing to help them after the leg shot, though.  Takes a bigger man than me . .



Most of the time he wasn't helping them, though, just telling them they were doomed. He only joined in when he realised that Jack would have to kill his own grandkid, and he (scientist bloke, that is) sounded really pleased about it.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Most of the time he wasn't helping them, though, just telling them they were doomed. He only joined in when he realised that Jack would have to kill his own grandkid, and he (scientist bloke, that is) sounded really pleased about it.


Yeh he even chuckled as he said the kid would fry......evil little shit. I think he was a very unhinged man tbh.


----------



## MikeMcc (Jul 10, 2009)

Brockway said:


> Well that was borderline sick: shooting your own offspring; kidnapping kids; frying your own nephew for the greater good. Blimey!
> 
> Loved the children as drugs idea.
> 
> ...


Was worse than that, the lad was his own grandson!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Most of the time he wasn't helping them, though, just telling them they were doomed. He only joined in when he realised that Jack would have to kill his own grandkid, and he (scientist bloke, that is) sounded really pleased about it.



Fair point.  But I didn't really get that bit - why he had that gleeful air about it.  There was no gain for him.

Maybe I'm being thick but earlier on I quite liked him - he reminded me of a cross between Q from the Bond films and the President's assistant from the West Wing . . 

<thick smiley>


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 10, 2009)

MikeMcc said:


> Aye, I don't think they could broadcast it though!



I'm thinking internet only subscription channel?


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

MikeMcc said:


> Was worse than that, the lad was his own grandson!


That was quite clever. He sacrificed one (this time) to save the many, the same thing  he did in 1965, which no one could understand and which he couldn't live with. Of course he will always live with both occasions, literally.


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jul 10, 2009)

the least important and convincing part of the whole series was jack harkness.  they could have made the whole thing without him.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

8ball said:


> Fair point.  But I didn't really get that bit - why he had that gleeful air about it.  There was no gain for him.
> 
> Maybe I'm being thick but earlier on I quite liked him - he reminded me of a cross between Q from the Bond films and the President's assistant from the West Wing . .
> 
> <thick smiley>



Perhaps he was glad because it would destroy Jack and wouldn't exactly please the woman who shot him.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 10, 2009)

ivebeenhigh said:


> the least important and convincing part of the whole series was jack harkness.  they could have made the whole thing without him.


I don't agree. I thought he was good. Such a sad, desperately lonely, damaged character.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Perhaps he was glad because it would destroy Jack and wouldn't exactly please the woman who shot him.





Not sure - doesn't seem like 'enough'.  It's not like Jack and hard-faced bitch* had any meaningful bond.

* - who causes a bulge in my pants tbh


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

ivebeenhigh said:


> the least important and convincing part of the whole series was jack harkness.  they could have made the whole thing without him.


C'mon, one minute he's Peter Pan in Panto, the next Batman - well, until his Robin died, and then Superman. What's not to like.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 10, 2009)

He's actually starting to look younger. Scary in a Cliff Richard sort of way.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

You need Jack or you lose the dynamic with Gwen and her bloke, which always makes me feel sad.


----------



## agricola (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> That was quite clever. He sacrificed one (this time) to save the many, the same thing  he did in 1965, which no one could understand and which he couldn't live with. Of course he will always live with both occasions, literally.



Huge question to ask the audience and then involve them in the consequences of though.  

I mean, maybe its just my own insanity talking but it is, on reflection, a bit mad that the moment the choice dawned on him I did find myself realising who the kid would be (lets face it, it was obvious) and that it would be the "right" thing to do.  Has any tv programme ever done that with regards to sacrificing a child, and then made the audience deal with the consequences?


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 10, 2009)

8ball said:


> I was also well on side with Head Geek for continuing to help them after the leg shot, though.  Takes a bigger man than me . .



I've never been shot in the leg but I imagine it's very, very painful. Found it hard to imagine he'd be helping them rather than writhing with pain.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

agricola said:


> I mean, maybe its just my own insanity talking but it is, on reflection, a bit mad that the moment the choice dawned on him I did find myself realising who the kid would be (lets face it, it was obvious) and that it would be the "right" thing to do.  Has any tv programme ever done that with regards to sacrificing a child, and then made the audience deal with the consequences?



I thought there must be some way around it.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

ivebeenhigh said:


> the least important and convincing part of the whole series was jack harkness.  they could have made the whole thing without him.



The storyline couldn't have worked without him.



8ball said:


> Not sure - doesn't seem like 'enough'.  It's not like Jack and hard-faced bitch* had any meaningful bond.
> 
> * - who causes a bulge in my pants tbh



No - she was close to the kid and his mum.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> I've never been shot in the leg but I imagine it's very, very painful. Found it hard to imagine he'd be helping them rather than writhing with pain.



Obviously there's a 'suspension of disbelief' element, plus the fact that legshots are often fatal in reality, but yes, I didn't get where his motivation was in continuing to help them.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> No - she was close to the kid and his mum.



What, really hard-faced bitch that as far as we know doesn't know this guy?  He doesn't know how much it took for her to begin to show sympathy unless there is some unexposited back story.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

agricola said:


> Huge question to ask the audience and then involve them in the consequences of though.
> 
> I mean, maybe its just my own insanity talking but it is, on reflection, a bit mad that the moment the choice dawned on him I did find myself realising who the kid would be (lets face it, it was obvious) and that it would be the "right" thing to do.  Has any tv programme ever done that with regards to sacrificing a child, and then made the audience deal with the consequences?


I haven't seen much tv for a number of years so I can't comment on that. I did think though that, in the end, they dumped moral compexity into our laps in an exceptional way.

Aside from the 10% of children, there was the civil servant shooting his family, Jack's grandson, the role of police, army, special forces, and even the UK's relationship with the empire of the day.

It was a tight weave.


----------



## Maggot (Jul 10, 2009)

Great Drama.  It's rare to see stuff like that on mainstream telly.

I didn't work out how they got rid of the 4,5,6, though.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> Aside from the 10% of children, there was the civil servant shooting his family, Jack's grandson, the role of police, army, special forces, and even the UK's relationship with the empire of the day.
> 
> It was a tight weave.



Nicely put - there was a lot to deal with for a primetime BBC1 audience.

Ok, most people would have switched off either cos of the sci-fi thing or the gay thing but still challenging for anyone still watching.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

Maggot said:


> I didn't work out how they got rid of the 4,5,6, though.



I think I was overwhelmed by some of the emotional dillemas but I caught a whiff of _Deus Ex Machina_ too.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 10, 2009)

Same old; turn whatever they're using against earth back onto the aliens. Independence Day, et al.


----------



## feyr (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Lois, maybe? I guess Gwen and Rhys couldn't do much more than try to save individual children. PC Andy, Ianto's sister and her husband - a fair few stayed true. Of course, even Jack did the 'right' thing, but it was bloody horrible.
> 
> @feyr: Me too; I never usually cry at TV or the movies at all, but didn't stop till about ten minutes after this ended.






madzone said:


> Fucking hell, I'm going to have to recite to myself twenty times 'That was not real, that was not real.....'



i have to admit, i went in and fussed over my kids, had to stop myself waking them up to hug them  



8ball said:


> Aye.  They had the same problem with Buffy.
> 
> <gets coat>



hehehe. i loved that musical episode 



Maggot said:


> Great Drama.  It's rare to see stuff like that on mainstream telly.
> 
> I didn't work out how they got rid of the 4,5,6, though.



that bit did seemed a bit rushed, didnt explain how the 456 had used the frequency to kill clem without killing itself, or if jack changed the frequecy to one fatal to 456 but not humans


----------



## badlands (Jul 10, 2009)

I thought all in all it was pretty shoddy really.

Russell T does the Pied Piper.


----------



## YouSir (Jul 10, 2009)

I thought that the mad scientist ultimately helped them because he was generally disinterested in the whole thing; he was indifferent when he prophesised doom and indifferent when he found himself in a position to contribute, he helped for the vague feeling of power and the glee of maintaining his dettatchment while the others had to make all the hard choices. 

As for the Deus ex Machina ending, yeah, a bit cliched but nicely done. After all, Will Smith never had to kill his child in Independance Day and there wasn't much of a sense of victory even when the 456 left, just depressed relief.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> And what about Evil Woman, she deserves her own show.
> 
> No, her own empire!



Love the way she blithely knee-capped the smug scientist!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> I've never been shot in the leg but I imagine it's very, very painful. Found it hard to imagine he'd be helping them rather than writhing with pain.


To be fair, they'd probably popped a syrette of morphine into him, or he'd have been screaming like a howler monkey.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 10, 2009)

badlands said:


> I thought all in all it was pretty shoddy really.
> 
> Russell T does the Pied Piper.



I'm sorry to hear the lobotomy went so badly.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2009)

Maggot said:


> Great Drama.  It's rare to see stuff like that on mainstream telly.
> 
> I didn't work out how they got rid of the 4,5,6, though.



The 456 used a transmitted resonance wave to kill Clem. jack and the smug boffin reasoned that to have used that waveform the 456 must be attuned to it, and that the children (who the 456 had been using as their mouthpieces) would also be attuned to it. They used Jack's grandson as the "transmitter" of the wave to the other children, who amplified it and sent it down their link to the 456. It did to the 456 what the 456 did to Clem.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 10, 2009)

feyr said:


> that bit did seemed a bit rushed, didnt explain how the 456 had used the frequency to kill clem without killing itself, or if jack changed the frequecy to one fatal to 456 but not humans


Perhaps it doesn't affect them on transmission, but does on reception?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I'm sorry to hear the lobotomy went so badly.



<snorts in undignified manner>


----------



## badlands (Jul 11, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I'm sorry to hear the lobotomy went so badly.



Sorry to lay in to your love-in, but the acting was bad, the writing woeful and the directing simply dreadful.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2009)

badlands said:


> Sorry to lay in to your love-in, but the acting was bad, the writing woeful and the directing simply dreadful.



Hang on - I take serious issue with your comment about the _directing_ -you're going to have to back that up.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

badlands said:


> Sorry to lay in to your love-in, but the acting was bad, the writing woeful and the directing simply dreadful.



It's OK, love, the nurse will be here soon with your medication.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2009)

One 'good' kid died to save millions of 'bad' street hanging kids. 

Kind of poetic considering what the so called good were prepared to do to protect themselves.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2009)

Gromit said:


> One 'good' kid died to save millions of 'bad' street hanging kids.
> 
> Kind of poetic considering what the so called good were prepared to do to protect themselves.



I never got that - we never saw whether he was a good kid or bad kid - I figured he was just a kid doomed by circumstances.


----------



## badlands (Jul 11, 2009)

8ball said:


> Hang on - I take serious issue with your comment about the _directing_ -you're going to have to back that up.



Well it wasn't the most imaginative interpretation of the script.

A bit by the numbers.

But I guess the director was up against it (time = money) 

No director like's working for the beeb or tv for that matter


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2009)

badlands said:


> Well it wasn't the most imaginative interpretation of the script



Oh, you saw the_ script_?

This certainly redefines my understanding of how the Beeb tender Directorship contracts . .


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

8ball said:


> I never got that - we never saw whether he was a good kid or bad kid - I figured he was just a kid doomed by circumstances.



He would never have been in  danger if he weren't Jack's grandson - he went to one of the 'good' schools.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2009)

scifisam said:


> He would never have been in  danger if he weren't Jack's grandson - he went to one of the 'good' schools.



Yeah, but both those counts are also accidents of birth.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Jul 11, 2009)

just caught up with last episode, was working. does this mean no more torchwood? sorry if already asked/answered


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2009)

Dovydaitis said:


> just caught up with last episode, was working. does this mean no more torchwood? sorry if already asked/answered



Nah - there'll be more.

Especially after the ratings they got this week.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Jul 11, 2009)

hope its not, i quite like torchwood


----------



## badlands (Jul 11, 2009)

8ball said:


> Oh, you saw the_ script_?
> 
> This certainly redefines my understanding of how the Beeb tender Directorship contracts . .



I'll be more than happy to talk to you about how the BBC do things.

And yes I did see the script.

Tired now and have two little ones to look after.

Be more than happy if you want to PM me tho.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

8ball said:


> Yeah, but both those counts are also accidents of birth.



I'm not sure what we're disagreeing about. He was one of the 'good' kids in speechmarks, which doesn't actually mean good, and he was also really bloody unlucky.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2009)

IMHO Torchwood has found the format that suits it best.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2009)

8ball said:


> I never got that - we never saw whether he was a good kid or bad kid - I figured he was just a kid doomed by circumstances.



The evil woman referred to him as good.

I presume because he'd been well behaved whilst he was there, was well spoken plus generally nice and obviously not the street hanging scum type she then went on to mention.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

Gromit said:


> The evil woman referred to him as good.
> 
> I presume because he'd been well behaved whilst he was there, was well spoken plus generally nice and obviously not the street hanging scum type she then went on to mention.




She said he'd be fine because all the nice kids would be. 

(Except for poor Frobisher's kids. God, I still want to personally kill that Prime Minister).

I don't think nice was meant to say that he was _actually_ nice and they weren't - it was nothing to do with his behaviour or personality. She was talking about class-based stereotypes.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2009)

Gromit said:


> The evil woman referred to him as good.
> 
> I presume because he'd been well behaved whilst he was there, was well spoken plus generally nice and obviously not the street hanging scum type she then went on to mention.



Ok - I think I wasn't thinking of her as a serious judge of a 'good kid' since she was such a fucknut herself.

Actually quite interested in what Badlands is saying since I wouldn't think many people would have much quarrel with the direction or production or whatever.  

Though I can see the 'Pied Piper' point, there are a lot of other stories going on, too.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> IMHO Torchwood has found the format that suits it best.


Yup


----------



## pigtails (Jul 11, 2009)

O............M.........G

Just watched it, a little bit shell shocked tbh!


----------



## Iguana (Jul 11, 2009)

That was bloody phenomenal!  Really fucking excellent and utterly devastating.  I still feel really sick, from it.  I keep thinking about how it was poor Alice who convinced Johnson that Jack could save them.  She had such faith in her dad and the look she gave him when he was working things out, she was so proud of him.  And then he killed her son.



8ball said:


> I thought there must be some way around it.



I thought Jack would stop the signal before Stephen died and then go to the 456 and say: we know how to hurt you, so piss off.  Which would probably have worked, stupid Jack.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

badlands said:


> I'll be more than happy to talk to you about how the BBC do things.
> 
> And yes I did see the script.
> 
> ...


 In most cases the general public don't get to see the script so that's not what they base their opinion on. The concensus seems to be that this was a gripping piece of drama that the majority 'enjoyed' watching. To dismiss it as a 'love-in' makes you sound quite bitter. It also smacks of 'oooh look at me I know more about it than you'. I don't care what the script was and if it could have been done better (though we only have your opinion on that) The end result was good enough to have generated lengthy debate here and attracted millions of viewers. Once writers hand over scripts they have to trust that the director will have the same vision. In most cases I expect they don't but that's just tough. It doesn't just happen at the BBC, it happens in film and theatre as well.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> To dismiss it as a 'love-in' makes you sound quite bitter. It also smacks of 'oooh look at me I know more about it than you'.


Indeed. 
It was a huge hit for a lot of the public. FACT.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

badlands said:


> I'll be more than happy to talk to you about how the BBC do things.


Make your argument then rather than shout from the peanut gallery. Without an argument you do sound a little ignorant or oddly bitter or attention seeking - just put your case ?


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 11, 2009)

Did they kill all the 456 or just the one in the tank.....................?


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

Jack got the children to scare them off using their own whatsit waves – symmetry; came for the children, children (and Jack) saw them off.

I still love the idea they were intergalactic drug addicts: “What do you want them for?” “The hit”


----------



## Quartz (Jul 11, 2009)

Clearly no capitalists at the BBC. "Oh, you want them for a drug? Instead of kidnapping our children, why don't we isolate the chemical for you? That way we keep the kids and you get the drug."


----------



## YouSir (Jul 11, 2009)

Quartz said:


> Clearly no capitalists at the BBC. "Oh, you want them for a drug? Instead of kidnapping our children, why don't we isolate the chemical for you? That way we keep the kids and you get the drug."



Presumably if they were a super advanced species they'd have considered that themselves though and decided that it just wouldn't work well enough. Plus why would they bother? They think they can kill all humans anyway, they don't need to be arsed with bargaining or waitiing on manufacturing.


----------



## gsv (Jul 11, 2009)

Loved the way it ended up being about the Doctor, though he wasn't even in it.
Rather Sandman, that 

GS(v)


----------



## gsv (Jul 11, 2009)

I'm reading everything in a Welsh accent now!

GS(v)


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 11, 2009)

I spent quite a bit of last night wondering about the logistics of who Peter Capaldi's character shot first  

Decided it would probably be the Mum otherwise she would try to attact him but then thought would the kids freak out then I wondered if he explained it to them first 

Mark of a good programme though, I think, when I start thinking about part of it is such detail


----------



## FiFi (Jul 11, 2009)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I spent quite a bit of last night wondering about the logistics of who Peter Capaldi's character shot first
> 
> Decided it would probably be the Mum otherwise she would try to attact him but then thought would the kids freak out then I wondered if he explained it to them first
> 
> Mark of a good programme though, I think, when I start thinking about part of it is such detail



That scene was only one of many I lay awake thinking about last night.
The whole programme was just so dark and disturbing. 

Was I the only person who went into their childs room "just to check" after watching it?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2009)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I spent quite a bit of last night wondering about the logistics of who Peter Capaldi's character shot first
> 
> Decided it would probably be the Mum otherwise she would try to attact him but then thought would the kids freak out then I wondered if he explained it to them first
> 
> Mark of a good programme though, I think, when I start thinking about part of it is such detail



If he'd let them take his kids they would have in the end been saved by Jack... the guy he wouldn't let deal with the aliens and tried to kill.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

I wondered what countries without league tables would do . . . It's all so nuts


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I wondered what countries without league tables would do . . . It's all so nuts



Brazil would have football tryouts. The kids who always end up picked last in the playground would be history.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 11, 2009)

Alien druggies trying to score 

I never saw that coming!


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

Whoever did the voice of the 456 got it spot on. The casualness and kind of bemused quizical tone with which it spoke about something so shocking was pretty chilling IMO


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> Whoever did the voice of the 456 got it spot on. The casualness and kind of bemused quizical tone with which it spoke about something so shocking was pretty chilling IMO



the tone was light, but the harmonics behind it gave a sense of weighty ph33r. There was also the pauses and the sense that these creatures were almost playing back recieved words. IYSWIM

'You yielded in the past, and you will do again'


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

Children are always going to be an emotive subject ain't they?

Personally I thought it was little more than alright.

It was better than the last series of Torchwood.  But then that's not difficuult.


It had great moments but some really cheesy moments too,  some really bad writing and some great writing in parts. I thought that the last eopisoode lacked the science. The build up the the finale was pretty good but it just seemed a bit of a let down in the end. 

The problem of how to get rid of the 456 was solved in a matter of about ooh 30 seconds,  with little explantion.  It's the normal "magic" shit that Russel T. Davis uses.  Some moments were OTT, like when the Home Office minister goes to shoot his family (which was a cool bit) but sounding out the 3 gunshots, with a fourth final one after a pause, just ruined it for me.  We all knew what he was about to do, it would have  been more pognient without treating the audience like morons.

Jack seeming escaping just annoyed me.  The whole point of the Torchwood organisation was to protect earth whilst the Doctor can't be there.  So now what?  Just rely on the Doctor completely?  Jack had an ego so massive that it seems really out of character for him just to run, like a defeated man.

He gives up,  then as soon as they break him out of jail he's willing to just help again???!?

There's so many little annoyances about this series.  But generally it was watchable and exciting. But nothing like OMG THAT WAS AWSCOME!!!11!!

In all a mixed bag for me.

It's a shame because it has such potential to be super brilliant,  but for some reason,  like Dr who it just misses the mark with over hammyness, patchy story telling tying everything up with magical gilltery unicorn farts.  (But then,  I don't get on with Russel T. Davis as posted earlier)

The thing that pulls it through for most I suspect is the subject matter of kids.  Everyone loves kids. Most people watching this will have kids. And most people will place themselves and their kids in that situation and bawl along with it despite the direction, and mediocre acting, and patchy writing.

I probably would have been sobbing and bawling all over the place in the same way if they had replaced the kids with adorable puppies 


So My verdict.  Ok watchable stuff.  But annoyed that it didn't reach the potenital it had for utter super amazingness.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> It had great moments, but some really cheesy moments too,  and some really bad writing (and some great writing in parts). I thougt that the last eopisoode lacked the science.  *The problem of how to get rid of the 456 was solved in a matter of about ooh 30 seconds,  with little explantion. * It's the normal "magic" shit that Russel T Davis uses.



flux capacitor, reverse the polarity, forward power to the tachyon matrix etc etc


TV sci fi nearly ALWAYS has the glib miracle machine story resolver. It's not an issue that affects only Russel T Davis and the Whoniverse


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## Belushi (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> TV sci fi nearly ALWAYS has the glib miracle machine story resolver. It's not an issue that affects only Russel T Davis and the Whoniverse



Aye. its not about science its about people.


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## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

I disagree about the gunshots. It made me jump and then the pause between the third and the fourth was long enough to make you wonder whether he was going to kill himself or not.


----------



## Pingu (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> In most cases the general public don't get to see the script so that's not what they base their opinion on. The concensus seems to be that this was a gripping piece of drama that the majority 'enjoyed' watching. To dismiss it as a 'love-in' makes you sound quite bitter. It also smacks of 'oooh look at me I know more about it than you'. I don't care what the script was and if it could have been done better (though we only have your opinion on that) The end result was good enough to have generated lengthy debate here and attracted millions of viewers. Once writers hand over scripts they have to trust that the director will have the same vision. In most cases I expect they don't but that's just tough. It doesn't just happen at the BBC, it happens in film and theatre as well.


 

^^

this

as someone wo couldnt even be arsed to watch most of the previous series this 5 parter really gripped me. for me it worked.

do i give a shit if at some arty luvvie level it wasnt "true to the script"? no. tbh couldnt give a toss - i was entertained and that is pretty much all i ask for from a prog like torchwood


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## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> flux capacitor, reverse the polarity, forward power to the tachyon matrix etc etc
> 
> 
> TV sci fi nearly ALWAYS has the glib miracle machine story resolver. It's not an issue that affects only Russel T Davis and the Whoniverse



Yeah, it's true.   But it seems to affect this series more than most. In say, every episode, all the time.  All theyy need to do is spend a little more time thinking about it and explainign it in an exciting dynamic way, and it would be amazing.

That's what I mean though.  It simply always missies the mark by just that irritatingly tiny bit.


----------



## Pingu (Jul 11, 2009)

also tbf I am with FLB on if puppies had been used instead of kids (so I pretened it was puppies in order to get the impact of it being kids on normal people IYKWIM).


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## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

Pingu said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> do i give a shit if at some arty luvvie level it wasnt "true to the script"? no. tbh couldnt give a toss - i was entertained and that is pretty much all i ask for from a prog like torchwood



The thing is that the best, most long running TV programmes with the biggest fanbases are always true to the script and manage to attract more and more people to watch. 

It's not particularly arty or lovey to expect higher standards of entertainment.  If I wanted shit entertainment I'd switch over to channel four to watch Big Brother. 

Having said that Torchwood wasn't shit.  I watched all five eps so it kept me gripped and kept me tuning in.  I just felt that the ending was a bit of a deflation for me.  They'd spent such a long time building it up that the whole ending felt rushed over and a bit of a let down.  IYSWIM


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## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

It's been said several times so I'll just mention that Frobisher wasn't a Minister he was a civil servant (Permanent Secretary to the Home Office) - it matters in terms of the storyline about political accountability and to whom, as well as international legal accountability. For example, the Prime Minister ceded authority firstly to his civil service and then the USA, thus avoiding direct responsibility himself and for the UK Government.

Not really echo's of T. Blair and his Dossier at all then, esp. in relation to suicides.


Fwiw, the character of Evil Woman is apparently 'Johnson':







She likes a tickle.


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## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> The thing is that the best, most long running TV programmes with the biggest fanbases *are always true to the script* and manage to attract more and more people to watch.


 
How do you know?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 11, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> It's been said several times so I'll just mention that Frobisher wasn't a Minister he was a civil servant (Permanent Secretary to the Home Office) - it matters in terms of the storyline about political accountability and to whom, as well as international legal accountability. For example, the Prime Minister ceded authority firstly to his civil service and then the USA, thus avoiding direct responsibility himself and for the UK Government.
> 
> Not really echo's of T. Blair and his Dossier at all then, esp. in relation to suicides.
> 
> ...



Dangeroue though - if you don't tickle her properly she might shoot you


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> flux capacitor, reverse the polarity, forward power to the tachyon matrix etc etc
> 
> 
> TV sci fi nearly ALWAYS has the glib miracle machine story resolver. It's not an issue that affects only Russel T Davis and the Whoniverse



SCI FI Science Man 1
If we irradiate the warp field with a positive tachyon beam the electrolytes in the tractor beam may become over charged enough to release the ship.

Handy SCI FI Layman
Just like blowing up a balloon until it bursts. Brilliant.


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## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> How do you know?



Becuase if you look at all the fan club conventions or browse the forums of long ruinning SCI FI and drama shows: star trek, 24, the old Dr  Who,  Blakes 7, Babylon 5, Battestar Gallactica (the old and the new series) etc, the writers and directors pretty much always take their references from past series.  And yeah, there's always  infighting between the hardcore fans, but for most a nearly watertight script and character development normally does it OK.

It's like getting to know a freind really well.  And if that freind suddenly changes personality or wipes out a whole chapter of their lives,  then it aint that friend that you thought you knew.

Is how I see it anyway.


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## In Bloom (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> flux capacitor, reverse the polarity, forward power to the tachyon matrix etc etc
> 
> 
> TV sci fi nearly ALWAYS has the glib miracle machine story resolver. It's not an issue that affects only Russel T Davis and the Whoniverse


It does seem particularly bad with Davies though, there's not enough build up or explanation, just a straight jump from "We have to think of something" to "Let's put my grandkid in the magical baby killing machine".  That scene should have been an entire episode, or at least a signifigant part of one.

Having said that, I enjoyed the the show right up until then.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

In Bloom said:


> It does seem particularly bad with Davies though, there's not enough build up or explanation, just a straight jump from "We have to think of something" to "Let's put my grandkid in the magical baby killing machine".  That scene should have been an entire episode, or at least a signifigant part of one.
> 
> Having said that, I enjoyed the the show right up until then.



+1


----------



## Leafster (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> The problem of how to get rid of the 456 was solved in a matter of about ooh 30 seconds,  with little explantion.  It's the normal "magic" shit that Russel T. Davis uses.


 This was the one thing that I was disappointed about (apart from them killing off Ianto). I know, like DC says that it's often the case with scifi that solutions to problems are often pulled out of thin air. But with a story arc over five episodes it seemed too much of a cop out to arrive at a solution in such a short space of time without any real development of the idea or fuller explanation. 

Overall, I really enjoyed this series and it's bleakness gave me pause for thought but I do wonder where things can go from here. I hope they will recommission another series but having decimated the main characters in such a short period of time (Owen & Tosh at the end of the previous season and Ianto in this) I'm at a loss to know who is left to carry the Torch. Would it be a case of building up Rhys's or PC Andy's parts, bringing in Lois or Johnson or what?


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## Iguana (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> I disagree about the gunshots. It made me jump and then the pause between the third and the fourth was long enough to make you wonder whether he was going to kill himself or not.



I agree, each of the first 3 gunshots felt like being punched in the stomach and the pause before the fourth made me cry.  I thought it was really powerful.

(Although it was quite unrealistic that Frobisher was asked to sacrifice his kids. No one who knew the truth would give their kids over willingly on camera, and he wasn't a particularly high profile politician.  They would have asked some minister who didn't know what was happening to get on tv and have their kids "inoculated")


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## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

Iguana said:


> (Although it was quite unrealistic that Frobisher was asked to sacrifice his kids. No one who knew the truth would give their kids over willingly on camera, and he wasn't a particularly high profile politician.  They would have asked some minister who didn't know what was happening to get on tv and have their kids "inoculated")


John Gummer and mad cows disease?


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## gnoriac (Jul 11, 2009)

Leafster said:


> I'm at a loss to know who is left to carry the Torch. Would it be a case of building up Rhys's or PC Andy's parts, bringing in Lois or Johnson or what?



Johnson would be good. Cold, hard female characters in TV drama are pretty rare. TBH I didn't much like any of the Torchwood characters, remember how boring Ianto was before he got it on with Jack?


----------



## Belushi (Jul 11, 2009)

Leafster said:


> I'm at a loss to know who is left to carry the Torch. Would it be a case of building up Rhys's or PC Andy's parts, bringing in Lois or Johnson or what?



Gwen, Johnson, Lois and the chavvy brother in law


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## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> John Gummer and mad cows disease?


 
That's what instantly came to my mind


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## Leafster (Jul 11, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> Johnson would be good. Cold, hard female characters in TV drama are pretty rare. TBH I didn't much like any of the Torchwood characters, remember how boring Ianto was before he got it on with Jack?


 I wasn't that keen on all the original Torchwood characters either but think there should be some continuity in the transitional period rather than an abrupt change to what might almost be a completely new cast.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

I'd struggle to sympathise with Jack now tbh. Did Gwen know what he did to his Grandson?


----------



## Leafster (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> *I'd struggle to sympathise with Jack now tbh*. Did Gwen know what he did to his Grandson?


I think, in part, that's because the solution to getting rid of the 456 was rushed. If we'd seen a development of the idea alongside the agonising realisation that the only solution to the problem was to use a child and the only available child was Jack's grandson then you might have more sympathy for Jack's dilemma.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 11, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> Perhaps it doesn't affect them on transmission, but does on reception?



Yeah, you can shout at someone so loud their eardrum will pop - but your ears don't.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

Leafster said:


> I think, in part, that's because the solution to getting rid of the 456 was rushed. If we'd seen a development of the idea alongside the agonising realisation that the only solution to the problem was to use a child and the only available child was Jack's grandson then you might have more sympathy for Jack's dilemma.


 Thing is though, _unless_ it was rushed they would have had time to find another child. I think that by having to come up with an instant decision it was possible to _almost_ believe that Stephen was the only option.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> I disagree about the gunshots. It made me jump and then the pause between the third and the fourth was long enough to make you wonder whether he was going to kill himself or not.



Precisely.
Weirdly enough, by killing himself, his character regained some of the humanity it had lost through dealing so glibly with the 456.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

We were all counting the bangs  though.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> Thing is though, _unless_ it was rushed they would have had time to find another child. I think that by having to come up with an instant decision it was possible to _almost_ believe that Stephen was the only option.





Split second decision to be the bastard, Jack stopped being Captain Cheesecake this week and got back to where the character was before tossy series 1 and 2!

Gwens bloke and Ianto's BiL win the awards for most realistic non-sci fi gabbling men


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## Iguana (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> Thing is though, _unless_ it was rushed they would have had time to find another child. I think that by having to come up with an instant decision it was possible to _almost_ believe that Stephen was the only option.



Yup, they could probably have gotten some kid who was fatally ill and would have died in the next few days anyway.  Not nice, but pragmatic and not as heart-wrenching.  In fact fatally ill kid would probably have liked the chance to save the world through their death.

It had to be instant or there wouldn't really have been any dilemma.  And if the government hadn't tried to destroy Torchwood they would have had hours to work it out.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

What exactly was the reason for the government trying to destroy Torchwood again??


----------



## Belushi (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> What exactly was the reason for the government trying to destroy Torchwood again??



To prevent anyone discovering what theyd done in '65.


----------



## Leafster (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> What exactly was the reason for the government trying to destroy Torchwood again??


Wasn't it because Jack knew what happened in 1965 and perhaps he might have told the rest of the Torchwood team.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 11, 2009)

Leafster said:


> I wasn't that keen on all the original Torchwood characters either but think there should be some continuity in the transitional period rather than an abrupt change to what might almost be a completely new cast.



They've also got rid of the Torchwood HQ, so I'm guessing it either means the programme's finito (doubt that'd please the BBC's accountants after this week's ratings) or the next series will effectively start from scratch.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 11, 2009)

i'm guessing  jack  has run off into space so he can  bump into the doctor in the next  who special


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

Belushi said:


> To prevent anyone discovering what theyd done in '65.



Bit lame though isn't it?


I mean if you don't want people to talk, then you shoot them there and then.  

OR

You get the only people that know any damn thing about it to help?  I mean they did call Unit in.

OR


At least get Jack to give information, before attempting to waste him (and the entire Torchwood team)?


My boyfreind has just said,  if you wnated an even more fucked up ending,  they should have channeled the frequency through Gwen's foetus.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 11, 2009)

Perhaps Gwen will go in search of the missing Scottish Torchwood?


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 11, 2009)

I really enjoyed it.

I don't feel the need to deconstruct it like were some A-Level Media Studies project.

It was an enjoyable five nights of quite dark (for mainstream BBC1) hookum during the summer.

So there were plot holes that you could drive a bus through, but who cares?

According to the ratings, a lot of other people agreed. 

It was better than the usual shite of Celebrity Masterchef and Traffic Cops that BBC1 usualy serves up.


----------



## pigtails (Jul 11, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> I really enjoyed it.
> 
> I don't feel the need to deconstruct it like were some A-Level Media Studies project.
> 
> ...


^^
This, exactly!


----------



## Balbi (Jul 11, 2009)

Biggest plot hole for me, that I don't mind, is that there's no way the U.K military would round up the kids like that. If the order came down from on high, even with the caveat 'it's them or you', whoever gave the order wouldn't last very long at all.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> I really enjoyed it.
> 
> I don't feel the need to deconstruct it like were some A-Level Media Studies project.
> 
> ...


 
^^^^

*applauds*


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 11, 2009)

Balbi said:


> Biggest plot hole for me, that I don't mind, is that there's no way the U.K military would round up the kids like that. If the order came down from on high, even with the caveat 'it's them or you', whoever gave the order wouldn't last very long at all.



It was mentioned in the programme that the soldiers were told that their familes would be saved if they rounded up the other kids.

Really, do people not pay attention anymore?


----------



## Balbi (Jul 11, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> It was mentioned in the programme that the soldiers were told that their familes would be saved if they rounded up the other kids.
> 
> Really, do people not pay attention anymore?



Yeah, like I said - wouldn't bloody happen  It's like that report they did into the U.K forces after Waco, said something along the lines of 'If we try that here, the military would go postal on the government'


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> It was better than the usual shite of Celebrity Masterchef and Traffic Cops that BBC1 usualy serves up.


And about 10 times more expensive.

Not to mention where you get the talent to write this stuff - it is a finite and very scarce resource.


People are so fucking glib about what it takes to create stuff of this quality. You think every other country does it?


----------



## Belushi (Jul 11, 2009)

Balbi said:


> It's like that report they did into the U.K forces after Waco, said something along the lines of 'If we try that here, the military would go postal on the government'



I dont believe that for a second, you only need to look at the way soldiers behaved at times in NI against British civilians.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

Belushi said:


> I dont believe that for a second, you only need to look at the way soldiers behaved at times in NI against British civilians.


I think the point was they didn't want to be British citizens, or subjects as it was at the time.


----------



## Belushi (Jul 11, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I think the point was they didn't want to be British citizens, or subjects as it was at the time.



I dont think theyre motivation would really matter to troops following orders, it certainly doesnt to the Police.

Im also not convinced the Government commissioned a report after Waco.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> The problem of how to get rid of the 456 was solved in a matter of about ooh 30 seconds,  with little explantion.



I thought that was a strenght actually. Allowed the story to be about the people involved and the whole moral thingummy rather than a kooky science thing.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> ISo there were plot holes that you could drive a bus through, but who cares?
> 
> According to the ratings, a lot of other people agreed.
> 
> It was better than the usual shite of Celebrity Masterchef and Traffic Cops that BBC1 usualy serves up.



I cared. I personally find it hard to reconcile anything with gaping plot holes in it.  It's the one thing that really bugs me.  I could almost forgive anything else.  Bad SFX don't bug me but plot holes do.

Besides,  if you don't expect quality, then you just won't get qulity.  Which is exactly why gumph like traffic cops and celeb masterchef keep  getting recommissioned.  Enough people watch it.

But then,  if people are happy to watch it,  then that's up to them too.  I just feel a little let down.  That's not to say I didn't enjoy it.  Becuase I did.  I'd probably watch the next one too.

RE: Re-casting the torchwood team.  That's exactly what they did with Teachers after series 2, and it really suffered for it.  Although those cast dissapearances weren't really explained so it's a bit different.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> I cared. I personally find it hard to reconcile anything with gaping plot holes in it. It's the one thing that really bugs me. I could almost forgive anything else. Bad SFX don't bug me but plot holes do.
> 
> Besides, if you don't expect quality, then you just won't get qulity. Which is exactly why gumph like traffic cops and celeb masterchef keep getting recommissioned. Enough people watch it.
> 
> ...


 You're clearly in a minority.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> I thought that was a strenght actually. Allowed the story to be about the people involved and the whole moral thingummy rather than a kooky science thing.


 Yeah, this. I'm not a sci fi geek and have watched it for the plot and characters.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> You're clearly in a minority.



So?


That just means that more of you are wrong


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> So?
> 
> 
> That just means that more of you are wrong


 I'm just fucking glad I didn't watch this with you. You'd have been gagged and possibly beaten. Not everything has to be dissected to its nth degree. It was a bit of BBC pap that ended up being bloody good quality drama. Just chill out and take it at face value ffs.

Just a thought, do you have pointy ears?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> Yeah, this. I'm not a sci fi geek and have watched it for the plot and characters.



well, I am a sci fi geek and long ago gave up any hope of tele sci fi gubbins and tech actually obeying even it's own internal logic. You're in it for the ride, so to speak. If you want logical sci fi you need to read books.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 11, 2009)

Iguana said:


> I agree, each of the first 3 gunshots felt like being punched in the stomach and the pause before the fourth made me cry.  I thought it was really powerful.
> 
> (Although it was quite unrealistic that Frobisher was asked to sacrifice his kids. No one who knew the truth would give their kids over willingly on camera, and he wasn't a particularly high profile politician.  They would have asked some minister who didn't know what was happening to get on tv and have their kids "inoculated")



You don't understand the Civil Service and the way they're viewed by politicians if you think that. As a PPS Frobisher would be expected to fall on his sword (figuratively *or* literally if it could help his department. This just took the commitment issue a step further, with a pol expecting him to "go the extra mile" in order to keep the country safe. 
The pols *can* be that deluded when it comes to assuming that Civil Servants will engage in what are, essentially, political acts. They don't seem to appreciate the idea of Civil Service neutrality.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> You don't understand the Civil Service and the way they're viewed by politicians if you think that. As a PPS Frobisher would be expected to fall on his sword (figuratively *or* literally if it could help his department. This just took the commitment issue a step further, with a pol expecting him to "go the extra mile" in order to keep the country safe.
> The pols *can* be that deluded when it comes to assuming that Civil Servants will engage in what are, essentially, political acts. They don't seem to appreciate the idea of Civil Service neutrality.



'the cockroaches of government'


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> I'm just fucking glad I didn't watch this with you. You'd have been gagged and possibly beaten.








madzone said:


> Not everything has to be dissected to its nth degree. It was a bit of BBC pap that ended up being bloody good quality drama. Just chill out and take it at face value ffs.



Chill dude.  It's a discussion.  We can't all go "yeah it was great".  There's people dissecting it all over the place.




madzone said:


> Just a thought, do you have pointy ears?



What? Like a Vulcan or a Pixie?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 11, 2009)

Leafster said:


> Wasn't it because Jack knew what happened in 1965 and perhaps he might have told the rest of the Torchwood team.



And because for some reason they assumed Jack's immortality is "fuelled" by the rift.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> Chill dude. It's a discussion. We can't all go "yeah it was great". There's people dissecting it all over the place.


 Can't you just suspend your disbelief a teeny bit though? Mr madz disects and criticises stuff and it sucks the joy out of watching it. It's not a great film, making a moral and political statement, it's _Torchwood_ ffs.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> Can't you just suspend your disbelief a teeny bit though? Mr madz disects and criticises stuff and it sucks the joy out of watching it. It's not a great film, making a moral and political statement, it's _Torchwood_ ffs.



Yeah, but it was trying to make a moral and political statement wasn't it?

You'll be pleased to know that I don't disscet stuff during a showing   Just afterwards


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> Can't you just suspend your disbelief a teeny bit though? Mr madz disects and criticises stuff and it sucks the joy out of watching it. It's not a great film,* making a moral and political statement*, it's _Torchwood_ ffs.



you say that, but I was practically wanking with joy when they had that discussion round the table, trying to decide which kids would be given to the 456. Spot on statement about class prejudice by sneering we-no-best politicos


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 11, 2009)

All i know is i don't normally like tv programmes like these, but saw some of the one last night and was pleasantly surprised, wouldn't bother taking it too seriously though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> Just a thought, do you have pointy ears?



Are you accusing flb of being John Redwood?


----------



## Belushi (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> you say that, but I was practically wanking with joy when they had that discussion round the table, trying to decide which kids would be given to the 456. Spot on statement about class prejudice by sneering we-no-best politicos



The most disturbing thing was that it was so believable.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> 'the cockroaches of government'



"Stamp on us, burn us, nuke us. We just keep on working!"!


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> Can't you just suspend your disbelief a teeny bit though? Mr madz disects and criticises stuff and it sucks the joy out of watching it. It's not a great film, making a moral and political statement, it's _Torchwood_ ffs.


But that's why intelliegnt people like to make art; the challenge of layering. You can see David  as a statue of a boy with a small knob if you want, no one's going to say you can't. Equally, some people do want to see more, why don't you just let them.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 11, 2009)

Belushi said:


> The most disturbing thing was that it was so believable.



Which is why it was a good bit of writing. It's hard to make something so revolting quite so plausible, even given the current low status of politicians.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 11, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> But that's why intelliegnt people like to make art; the challenge of layering. You can see David  as a statue of a boy with a small knob if you want, no one's going to say you can't. Equally, some people do want to see more, why don't you just let them.



But coming on a thread like this, were people obviously have been enjoying it, only to shit on it saying this was wrong and whatnot -smacks to me of snobbishness.  Or wanting to be culturally superior.

Start your own thread to deconstruct it.

Some of us really enjoyed it for what it was.

It's not Ibsen, but then it never claimed to be.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> I cared. I personally find it hard to reconcile anything with gaping plot holes in it.  It's the one thing that really bugs me.  I could almost forgive anything else.  Bad SFX don't bug me but plot holes do.



I've never seen any science fiction show that didn't have plot holes. Really, can you think of a single episode of a single show that didn't have plotholes? It probably applies to non-scifi too, but I don't watch enough of that to know. 

That doesn't mean you shouldn't be annoyed by the plot holes (you probably can't help it, anyway), but perhaps it means being a little realistic in your expectations. Either expect some plot holes, or don't watch sci fi. 

Besides, I don't think the things you picked as plot holes actually were plot holes. 

Frobisher shooting his kids was OTT in the way it was shown? 

He hugged his wife and kids in a reasonably calm manner, loaded the gun with shaking hands, and went upstairs. All the time, we hear a softly-spoken voiceover of his secretary telling Lois all about Frobisher's very undramatic life. Then 4 shots, behind closed doors, to confirm that he had actually done it. 

How is that OTT?  Do you think they should have just had some news report about that murder-suicide on in the background at Torchwood HQ or something? I'm not sure how else it could have been less OTT.  

Jack running off at the end is completely believable. Just because he has a massive ego doesn't mean he's not totally fucked up by killing his own grandson. He would have to be a total sociopath not to be completely fucked up by that. 

Maybe you should imagine that he had to kill his own dog, since the killing of puppies would be more emotive for you than the killing of children. 

I kind of agree about the way they rushed through the solution to killing the aliens, though. It's not that the solution was found quickly and implemented quickly (because that's plausible), but they rushed through it too much on screen - it was hard to tell what the solution actually was. 

This show was all about human interactions and not scientific formulae, but, all the same, two more minutes' explanation time would have made more sense of it - including making more sense of Jack's decision.

These five episodes had the fewest plot holes I've ever seen in a science fiction show - I'm surprised the ones you think were there bothered you that much.



ViolentPanda said:


> Are you accusing flb of being John Redwood?



 That would be a bannable offence, surely?


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> But coming on a thread like this, were people obviously have been enjoying it, only to shit on it saying this was wrong and whatnot -smacks to me of snobbishness.  Or wanting to be culturally superior.
> 
> Start your own thread to deconstruct it.
> 
> ...



I don't think there's anything wrong with FLB posting up what she disliked about the episode and why. I guess she only posted what she disliked rather than what she liked because the parts she liked had already been discussed. Badlands just saying 'it was shit and I know more than you' was annoying, though.  

TBH, I think it was on a level with Ibsen.  Just because Ibsen's plays were on a stage doesn't automatically make them deeper than  a storyline like this on TV.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 11, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with FLB posting up what she disliked about the episode and why. I guess she only posted what she disliked rather than what she liked because the parts she liked had already been discussed. Badlands just saying 'it was shit and I know more than you' was annoying, though.



Fair enough


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 11, 2009)

The Jack character is actually quite flawed and flighty, and running away at the end seemed perfectly appropriate to me. However I'm not really convinced that that aspect of the character properly comes through with the acting and direction in Torchwood. He's too often not only played directly as Big Square-Jawed Hero, but the direction treats him as that as well. I preferred Jack in Who tbh.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> But that's why intelliegnt people like to make art; the challenge of layering. You can see David as a statue of a boy with a small knob if you want, no one's going to say you can't. Equally, some people do want to see more, why don't you just let them.


 Art


----------



## In Bloom (Jul 11, 2009)

madzone said:


> I'm just fucking glad I didn't watch this with you. You'd have been gagged and possibly beaten. Not everything has to be dissected to its nth degree. It was a bit of BBC pap that ended up being bloody good quality drama. Just chill out and take it at face value ffs.
> 
> Just a thought, do you have pointy ears?


You're awful angry sounding for someone who's telling folks to chill out.  Some people like to pick at stuff and talk about what they did and didn't like, you don't have to read it.


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

In Bloom said:


> You're awful angry sounding for someone who's telling folks to chill out. Some people like to pick at stuff and talk about what they did and didn't like, you don't have to read it.


 I'm fucking furious


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

You ever heard of dumbing down, Madzone?


----------



## madzone (Jul 11, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> You ever heard of dumbing down, Madzone?


 No, I'm too angry


----------



## In Bloom (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> you say that, but I was practically wanking with joy when they had that discussion round the table, trying to decide which kids would be given to the 456. Spot on statement about class prejudice by sneering we-no-best politicos


I almost shit when Captain Jack started spouting IWW slogans.  So much happy


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Jul 11, 2009)

I thought it was quite shite really.

It wanted to be an adult version of the Doctor Who children's programme, but didn't quite manage it...

Some bits left me cringing 

They should have found a slot of Saturday tea time to show it on


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> you say that, but I was practically wanking with joy when they had that discussion round the table, trying to decide which kids would be given to the 456. Spot on statement about class prejudice by sneering we-no-best politicos



I did like this touch - I thought it was a satire on Nu Labour 

So _that's_ what the school league tables are for


----------



## Maggot (Jul 11, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> Erm...
> 
> It's the first time I have seen Torchwood.
> 
> ...


Do you still think it's a CBBC programme?


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

Divisive Cotton said:


> I thought it was quite shite really.
> 
> It wanted to be an adult version of the Doctor Who children's programme, but didn't quite manage it...
> 
> ...



Yeah, Saturday teatime, parents and kids watching it together, totally appropriate.  

As a follow-up, they can watch Threads. 

What, exactly, does make a show adult, in your opinion?


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

Maggot said:


> Do you still think it's a CBBC programme?



Maybe he does - Divisive Cotton does!


----------



## likesfish (Jul 11, 2009)

completely unrealistic like the army's got that many serviceable wagons
 half a dozen blokes turning up in a white minibus getting lost going to the cafe sacking it as a bad idea. 
  "so sir if we don't take part in this crackpot scheme your going to take our kids
 oh really? 
 you and whose army?
 you ever seen an angry squaddies wife.

why can't any person who does the wardrobe get squaddies berets right 

re the waco thing a uk military would'nt try a daylight raid against armed nutters
b could come up with a better plan than running them over with a tank


----------



## Iguana (Jul 11, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I've never seen any science fiction show that didn't have plot holes. Really, can you think of a single episode of a single show that didn't have plotholes? It probably applies to non-scifi too, but I don't watch enough of that to know.



Very few programmes of any kind have no plotholes or just things that are factually incorrect.  I think there are 2 things that make the holes forgivable.  

1. If it is emotionally engaging enough so the plotholes don't completely disengage you which happens to me a lot.  

2.  If the plotholes were less a matter of the writer being clumsy or not giving a crap and more a case of them not being able to go into all the minutiae of what would happen in order to keep the pace moving.

As far as I was concerned any plotholes that I noticed didn't disengage me from the story and I can see why the programme makers left out some of the things that might have happened in this scenario.  All in all I thought the whole show was brilliant, it really impressed me and I know I'll be affected by it for weeks.


----------



## MikeMcc (Jul 11, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Jack character is actually quite flawed and flighty, and running away at the end seemed perfectly appropriate to me. However I'm not really convinced that that aspect of the character properly comes through with the acting and direction in Torchwood. He's too often not only played directly as Big Square-Jawed Hero, but the direction treats him as that as well. I preferred Jack in Who tbh.


Yet exceptionally honourable, hence the use of his grandson compared to the Cabinets efforts to avoid their children being selected.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

Iguana said:


> Very few programmes of any kind have no plotholes or just things that are factually incorrect.  I think there are 2 things that make the holes forgivable.
> 
> 1. If it is emotionally engaging enough so the plotholes don't completely disengage you which happens to me a lot.
> 
> ...



Well put. 

I've just thought of one thing that did annoy me from the last episode: when they discovered that the aliens were using human children as drugs, they rephrased 'using kids as drugs' a bit too often. When the really camp black American soldier said 'you're shooting up with kids,' I actually laughed.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 11, 2009)

I was waiting for a new slogan: The war on aliens on drugs


----------



## Corax (Jul 11, 2009)

That was quite the darkest thing I've seen on primetime in quite some time.

Jack's off to slowly mutate/evolve into the face of Bo then.

I vote that Torchwood's next leader should be tobyjug.  That no-nonsense 'boat-happy' style would soon bring order from chaos.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2009)

Corax said:


> That was quite the darkest thing I've seen on primetime in quite some time.
> 
> *Jack's off to slowly mutate/evolve into the face of Bo then.
> *
> I vote that Torchwood's next leader should be tobyjug.  That no-nonsense 'boat-happy' style would soon bring order from chaos.



Something tells me we shall see more of him before he becomes a big face in a jar.


----------



## Corax (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> Something tells me we shall see more of him before he becomes a big face in a jar.



I agree it'll be gradual.  But when he comes back he'll be wearing a cork stopper on his head; you'll see.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 11, 2009)

MikeMcc said:


> Yet exceptionally honourable, hence the use of his grandson compared to the Cabinets efforts to avoid their children being selected.



He's honourable, but I found that part and also the idea that he'd been okay with handing over kids in 1965 quite telling for (and appropriate to) the character - because he's also, when it comes down to it, obedient. It's not a coincidence I think that he's "Captain" Jack, always part of a military or paramilitary.

The Doctor, in those circumstances, would have said "no, fuck you all, I'm going to turn the entire fabric of spacetime upside-down so I don't have to do anything bad". He wouldn't have sacrificed anybody consciously. (The tragedy of the Doctor is that whatever he does, people end up dying, even if he tries his best to avoid it, not that he ends up in situations where he is forced to do bad things.)

Jack, though - despite being immortal and having little personal risk resulting from his decisions - takes people's word for things and obeys orders. Sometimes he refuses orders, and after the fact, yes, he feels guilty about it and fucks off out of the solar system to avoid dealing with it. But in the end, despite the Square Jawed Hero image, he always seems to be "unavoidably pushed" into doing things that he then regrets.

This is my current theory anyway and I reckon it's Saturday-night-defensible.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 11, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> Something tells me we shall see more of him before he becomes a big face in a jar.



Well imdb does have Barrowman listed as appearing in the Doctor Who Xmas and New Years Day specials.  So if that's correct we'll be seeing him pretty soon.



FridgeMagnet said:


> The Doctor, in those circumstances, would have said "no, fuck you all, I'm going to turn the entire fabric of spacetime upside-down so I don't have to do anything bad". He wouldn't have sacrificed anybody consciously.



But he has done on many occasions.  We saw at the beginning of the last series that it was The Doctor (and Donna) who destroyed Pompeii and killed 20,000 people in order to save the rest of the planet.  And we know the the Doctor played an important part in the Time War which sacrificed his entire species, possibly including his own child(ren), to save the rest of existence from the Daleks.  So I think he will actually understand why Jack had to do what he did to Stephen.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 11, 2009)

Just done an all 5 marathon. V.good. Will now cogitate on it and possibley read the thread.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 11, 2009)

Iguana said:


> Well imdb does have Barrowman listed as appearing in the Doctor Who Xmas and New Years Day specials.  So if that's correct we'll be seeing him pretty soon.
> 
> 
> 
> But he has done on many occasions.  We saw at the beginning of the last series that it was The Doctor (and Donna) who destroyed Pompeii and killed 20,000 people in order to save the rest of the planet.  And we know the the Doctor played an important part in the Time War which sacrificed his entire species, possibly including his own child(ren), to save the rest of existence from the Daleks.  So I think he will actually understand why Jack had to do what he did to Stephen.



Ah, but the Doctor does things out of inaction rather than deliberate action - he "lets things take their course" out of prior knowledge, rather than actually going out and incinerating people. Jack has no prior knowledge, he's only accidentally a time-traveller.

Now, ethically, the line there is very dodgy and other characters have called the Doctor on that, and he never has a very good defence, but it's a difference in the characters.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2009)

On many levels it's still a kid's programme.  

And bits were clunky and didn't work so well, but I was expecting something quite shoddy and it was waaay better than I expected.  I don't expect everyone to like it, but if they end the Torchwood thing at this point I don't doubt it will be remembered by Torchwood and Doctor Who fans in a similar way to how Serenity is thought of by Firefly fans.

I think they should end it here, really.  
That a camp, jazz-hands show spun off from a show about an alien who thinks humans are fab finishes on a dark, cynical and and frankly dejected tone is quite poetic in my book.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 11, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Ah, but the Doctor does things out of inaction rather than deliberate action - he "lets things take their course" out of prior knowledge, rather than actually going out and incinerating people. Jack has no prior knowledge, he's only accidentally a time-traveller.



No in the Fires of Pompeii he learned that Vesuvius was never meant to erupt, but to kill the Pyroville he has to cause the eruption.  He has to choose between the 20,000 people living in Pompeii or the rest of the world.  He actively has to push a lever to make it happen, which he is prepared to do.  Initially Donna tries to discourage him, but when she thinks about what is at stake she puts her hands on the lever too, so she can share the blame in what he has to do.  Then as they are escaping, she convinces him to save just one family.   (Which is Peter Capaldi's family, so I guess an ancestor of Frobischer.)


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 11, 2009)

Iguana said:


> Initially Donna tries to discourage him, but when she thinks about what is at stake she puts her hands on the lever too, so she can share the blame in what he has to do.



In so many ways Donna was the best companion he's had since....Romana?


----------



## scifisam (Jul 11, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He's honourable, but I found that part and also the idea that he'd been okay with handing over kids in 1965 quite telling for (and appropriate to) the character - because he's also, when it comes down to it, obedient. It's not a coincidence I think that he's "Captain" Jack, always part of a military or paramilitary.
> 
> The Doctor, in those circumstances, would have said "no, fuck you all, I'm going to turn the entire fabric of spacetime upside-down so I don't have to do anything bad". He wouldn't have sacrificed anybody consciously. (The tragedy of the Doctor is that whatever he does, people end up dying, even if he tries his best to avoid it, not that he ends up in situations where he is forced to do bad things.)
> 
> ...



Was he following orders when he broke into Thames House and stood up to the aliens?

I think the Doctor would have done exactly the same in Jack's position.


----------



## agricola (Jul 11, 2009)

8ball said:


> And bits were clunky and didn't work so well, but I was expecting something quite shoddy and it was waaay better than I expected.  I don't expect everyone to like it, but if they end the Torchwood thing at this point I don't doubt it will be remembered by Torchwood and Doctor Who fans in a similar way to how Serenity is thought of by Firefly fans.



TBH Firefly was a great show before Serenity ever came along, so the film itself didnt surprise people (unless they had never seen Firefly, of course) as much as Chilren of Earth has done.  Lets face it, some of series one of TW and most of series two were rubbish, and the bits that were not rubbish were nowhere near the same league as Children of Earth was.


----------



## feyr (Jul 12, 2009)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> I just felt that the ending was a bit of a deflation for me.  They'd spent such a long time building it up that the whole ending felt rushed over and a bit of a let down.  IYSWIM





madzone said:


> Thing is though, _unless_ it was rushed they would have had time to find another child. I think that by having to come up with an instant decision it was possible to _almost_ believe that Stephen was the only option.





BlueSquareThing said:


> I thought that was a strenght actually. Allowed the story to be about the people involved and the whole moral thingummy rather than a kooky science thing.



i think its a case of getting the balance right. spend too long explaining the science/technicalities of the situation and you'd risk alienating the part of the audience who arent that into the sci-fi side, and taking something away from the immediate emotional drama or whatever. on the other hand, skip over it too much and it does come across as too much of a convient plot device to wrap everything neatly up. in this instance i think it had to be a last minute decision, the deadline for collection of children was amost up, it had to be his grandson because he was the only chid in the building and to cement the idea of jack being someone who "didnt care" ( the reason he was selected to take the children the first time round) . but at the same time it was too rushed, even if they had extended the explanation a tiny bit, it might have flowed better. but i suppose it wasnt really meant to be about Jack stepping in to save the day with his clever solution.



gnoriac said:


> They've also got rid of the Torchwood HQ, so I'm guessing it either means the programme's finito (doubt that'd please the BBC's accountants after this week's ratings) or the next series will effectively start from scratch.



in this series they made even more references to the fact that cardiff Torchood wasnt the first or only torchwood in modern times, particualry when they were in the old london torchwood buildings. the main thing with Cardiff has always been the rift. maybe they were running out of ideas to do with the rift, destroying cardiff hq lets them relocate anywhere. they also made reference to Ianto working at london torchwood before joining cardiff, which could mean you could have more than 1 torchwood at a time. particularly as they have killed off all but 2 of torchwood, leaving a broken time traveller and a heavily pregnant gwen.  either the next series is going to have to be more based around diff. characters, or there will be a lot more made of gwen struggling to balance torchwood and family. which would echo slighty Jack and the fact his family in the end always comes second to torchwood



scifisam said:


> Was he following orders when he broke into Thames House and stood up to the aliens?
> 
> I think the Doctor would have done exactly the same in Jack's position.



i thought that the doctor is always portrayed more as being able too see the bigger picture, he doesnt always see earth or the human race as the one that needs to be saved, he empathises with other lifeforms too. not too say that he wouldnt have tried to save the children, as they were innocents in the whole thing, and he probably would have done the same thing , but i think it was quite clever that Gwen voiced the question why he wasnt there before deciding it was becasue maybe he was disgusted by the actions of the humans willing to sacrifce the children. Jack,as head of torchwood is meant to protect the earth, which is why it seemed easier to believe that he would be willing to sacrifice the children the first time round to save the rest of the planet. 

i like Torchwood, and while part of me would love to see another series, particually another one like this one, i dont think they've left themselves anywhere to go, at least not with captain Jack


----------



## Belushi (Jul 12, 2009)

agricola said:


> TBH Firefly was a great show before Serenity ever came along, so the film itself didnt surprise people (unless they had never seen Firefly, of course) as much as Chilren of Earth has done.



Yup, Serenity got the funding to be mad because Firefly was such a big dvd hit, despite being cancelled after after so few episodes mad.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 12, 2009)

Only got to see the final part last night and thought it was magnificent - as was the whole week. Sure, there was the odd plot hole (the reason why the government wanted to kill Harkness in the first place making least sense) but because everything else worked so beautifully I found the odd misstep easy to forgive.

I'll be amazed if there isn't more Torchwood - its ratings were terrific and, from what I hear, that audience appreciation score the BBC do was huge.


----------



## Infidel Castro (Jul 12, 2009)

Despite my fear that Barrowman was on the verge of bursting into song at several points in the episode, that last one was a blinder.  A genuine surprise.  A cracking way to sign off. 

The only chance I'll get to see Cardiff on the box now is when they show _Britain's Worst City Centre Drunks_ or whatever they call it when the cameras go out on the town and report the images of revelry to us on the telly.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 12, 2009)

I really liked the ending - a darker outcome than I expected.

Jack betrayed those kids in the 60s, then refused this time, only to betray his own grandson.

I did expect the kid to turn out to be immortal, I have to admit. Props to Russel T for resisting the temptation.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 12, 2009)

fogbat said:


> I did expect the kid to turn out to be immortal, I have to admit. Props to Russel T for resisting the temptation.


I did too. Was waiting for him to take a big breath.... .


----------



## Infidel Castro (Jul 12, 2009)

Same here.  Sly buggers.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 12, 2009)

Infidel Castro said:


> The only chance I'll get to see Cardiff on the box now is when they show _Britain's Worst City Centre Drunks_ or whatever they call it when the cameras go out on the town and report the images of revelry to us on the telly.



Hurray for Sky One.

How else would we know how those in Cardiff live?

Unless it's all a cover and you really are hiding some alien detective agency?


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 12, 2009)

I meant to ask, have Jack and Gwen ever had a 'moment', is it just her getting all girly-luvvy, or is it mutual _lust_ ?


----------



## colacubes (Jul 12, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I meant to ask, have Jack and Gwen ever had a 'moment', is it just her getting all girly-luvvy, or is it mutual _lust_ ?



I think they did in one of the earlier series.  Tbf Jack has knobbed nearly everyone who crosses his path though


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 12, 2009)

Has he? I didn't know


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 12, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I meant to ask, have Jack and Gwen ever had a 'moment', is it just her getting all girly-luvvy, or is it mutual _lust_ ?



It's been hinted at a lot in the past and IIRC there was a scene in a season two episode where she tells Jack she's in love with him (something had happened to make the Torchwood team tell the truth). It was pretty dreary frankly and I'm glad we didn't get an encore in COE.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 12, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> there was a scene in a season two episode where she tells Jack she's in love with him (something had happened to make the Torchwood team tell the truth). It was pretty dreary frankly and I'm glad we didn't get an encore in COE.



And a few scenes of supposed sexual tension between them in the first series.  And his obvious jealousy when he finds out she was shagging Owen.  That affair seems to have been completely written from the show's memory - thank fucking God.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 12, 2009)

Iguana said:


> That affair seems to have been completely written from the show's memory - thank fucking God.



I don't think so, there were plenty of references in Children Of Earth, subtle ones, but they were there.

It was clear she had chosen the 'good man, who belongs where he is', to the 'exciting, dangerous, but doesn't really "belong" anywhere' man.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 12, 2009)

I suspect she's not a stanger to keeping more than one pot simmering at once, nor though is Jack it seems. Modern relationships, eh


----------



## 8ball (Jul 12, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I suspect she's not a stanger to keeping more than one pot simmering at once, nor though is Jack it seems. Modern relationships, eh



Ah, was ever so.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 12, 2009)

8ball said:


> It was clear she had chosen the 'good man, who belongs where he is', to the 'exciting, dangerous, but doesn't really "belong" anywhere' man.



Well I like to wipe it from my memory.  That scene where he is has her up against a tree or a wall and is telling her how much she wants him to fuck her makes me feel ill inside.  Disgusting, frog-faced rapist.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 12, 2009)

Iguana said:


> That scene where he is has her up against a tree or a wall and is telling her how much she wants him to fuck her makes me feel ill inside.  Disgusting, frog-faced rapist.



Ick.  

I don't think I interpreted it the same way at the time.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 12, 2009)

I think the most implausible thing is when 1965 Torchwood bint says they are using Jack to give away the children because 'we need someone who doesn't care'.

Like that was ever a problem for the Government or military . . .


----------



## Iguana (Jul 13, 2009)

8ball said:


> Ick.
> 
> I don't think I interpreted it the same way at the time.



Well the rapist part was from when he was using alien rophynol on strangers in a nightclub.  Gwen, for some reason, really wanted him, though she hated herself for it. 

The tree scene is .


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 13, 2009)

8ball said:


> I think the most implausible thing is when 1965 Torchwood bint says they are using Jack to give away the children because 'we need someone who doesn't care'.
> 
> Like that was ever a problem for the Government or military . . .



I took that line to mean he didn't care about living or dying.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 13, 2009)

Iguana said:


> The tree scene is .



For me, that scene is top of the list when it comes to utterly shit moments in 'old' Torchwood. Risible dialogue and clumsy sex references shoehorned into the script to make it 'adult'. Fucking awful, unintentionally hilarious and about a million light years away from Children Of Earth.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 13, 2009)

Very impressed with the increasing darkness through the week, last episode was pretty uncomfortable viewing in some places. 

Think they didn't make as much use of Super Bitch as they might, and obv there were a couple of plot holes, but very enjoyable stuff...


----------



## Cloo (Jul 13, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> Fwiw, the character of Evil Woman is apparently 'Johnson':


 She looks distractingly like 'Supernanny'


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 13, 2009)

I loved the fact that they kept in a bit of that standing on rooftops and running around looking serious malarkey.

They do a lot of running about, don't they? I keep expecting them to collide with that lot from Primeval... 

Still, Series 3 - massive improvement on what went before..


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 13, 2009)

jer said:


> I loved the fact that they kept in a bit of that standing on rooftops and running around looking serious malarkey.
> 
> They do a lot of running about, don't they? I keep expecting them to collide with that lot from Primeval...
> 
> Still, Series 3 - massive improvement on what went before..



It's the whoniverse. Running around is SOP


----------



## teecee (Jul 13, 2009)

Anyone else suddenly a little suspicious of the governments announcement today that that will be vaccinating us all against swine flu, and it seems a lot of countries will be following suite


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 13, 2009)

teecee said:


> Anyone else suddenly a little suspicious of the governments announcement today that that will be vaccinating us all against swine flu, and it seems a lot of countries will be following suite


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 13, 2009)




----------



## teecee (Jul 13, 2009)

and of course they also announced they will be starting with the most vulnerable and susceptible first .....


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 13, 2009)

teecee said:


> and of course they also announced they will be starting with the most vulnerable and susceptible first .....



 x2

Are we on to something here?


----------



## teecee (Jul 13, 2009)

PacificOcean said:


> x2
> 
> Are we on to something here?




Could just all be a harmless coincidence but to make sure I shall drag my heels and aim for the back of the queue


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 13, 2009)

teecee said:


> Could just all be a harmless coincidence but to make sure I shall drag my heels and aim for the back of the queue


----------



## Balbi (Jul 13, 2009)

teecee said:


> Could just all be a harmless coincidence but to make sure I shall drag my heels and aim for the back of the queue



I wouldn't, dragging heels is a recognised disability.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 13, 2009)

teecee said:


> Anyone else suddenly a little suspicious of the governments announcement today that that will be vaccinating us all against swine flu, and it seems a lot of countries will be following suite



Yes. And I'm also worried about the giant pillar of fire I saw descend over central London this lunch time.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 13, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> Yes. And I'm also worried about the giant pillar of fire I saw descend over central London this lunch time.



Actually, there was that Dean Street fire the other day...


----------



## teecee (Jul 13, 2009)

Balbi said:


> I wouldn't, dragging heels is a recognised disability.



Thanks for the tip one can't be too prepared ,in that case I shall lurk quietly until the furore has died down, but just to make sure it's on the furore that has died


----------



## teecee (Jul 13, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> Yes. And I'm also worried about the giant pillar of fire I saw descend over central London this lunch time.




I thought you of all people would be less flippant, I thought you were seeing the bigger picture http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=295528

Typical cheery pip attitude of the English, it'll get you all killed I tell you, this smug complacency  of yours. We need to raise awareness and foster that fighting Welsh spirit that helped saved the day

Now it makes me wonder....are they really building Olympic stadiums or is something more sinister afoot


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 13, 2009)

Just talking to a mate's ladyfriend, they liked it as well. The scene where Frobisher goes into the bedroom with the gun and closes the door .  . . . after the third bang she said he shouted out 'You don't need a pony now, you Tory scum'.

Harsh but fair.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 13, 2009)

Are you sure they're not confusing Frobisher with Malcolm?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 13, 2009)

I swear there were a couple of shots filmed in The Thick of It style - hand held cam, lingering shots of an empty room, while a phone rings etc.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 13, 2009)

jer said:


> Are you sure they're not confusing Frobisher with Malcolm?



Yeah, I thought Frobisher was Civil Service - who are, shall we say, a bit inclined towards the conservative way of thinking. But more Sir Humphrey than Lady Thatcher imo!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 13, 2009)

I'd like to have seen Malcolm deal with the 456!


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 13, 2009)

jer said:


> Are you sure they're not confusing Frobisher with Malcolm?


 I think he includes New Labour as Tory.


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 13, 2009)

jer said:


> I'd like to have seen Malcolm deal with the 456!


We want 10% of your children.
Fuck the fuck off!


----------



## fogbat (Jul 13, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> We want 10% of your children.
> Fuck the fuck off!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 13, 2009)

fogbat said:


>



Excellent


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 13, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> I think he includes New Labour as Tory.



as is quite logical.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 13, 2009)

jer said:


> I'd like to have seen Malcolm deal with the 456!



He'd have sent wee Jamie in with an Ipod and had done with the fucking alien cunts


----------



## pigtails (Jul 13, 2009)

teecee said:


> Anyone else suddenly a little suspicious of the governments announcement today that that will be vaccinating us all against swine flu, and it seems a lot of countries will be following suite





that's it, we'll all be hooked up to some aliens before we know it!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 13, 2009)

Cloo said:


> She looks distractingly like 'Supernanny'



She looks more like a cheap knock-off of Officer Aeryn Sun from "Farscape", but with smaller testicles.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 13, 2009)

One of the writers has had to issue a rebuttal to some of the more hysterical 'fan' criticism of the series:

Sounds like there are some right nutters out there


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2009)

a few very large plot holes, but wtf?  Just done the lot over two nights and shocked at the humungous improvement in quality, proper good telly.  It's astounding what a difference some decent actors, a well developed script, and no crap sex, can make.

The idea of the vile Owen gurning his way through that series would have been unbearable to watch. And whilst I liked Ianto's character, he had absolutely zero chemistry with Jack, and that whole part of it didn't really work at all. 

roll on the next series!


----------



## Quartz (Jul 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> roll on the next series!



I think they should leave it there and go out on a high note. Knowing when to move on is important. Don't let it fizzle out like so many American shows.


----------



## Corax (Jul 14, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> One of the writers has had to issue a rebuttal to some of the more hysterical 'fan' criticism of the series:
> 
> Sounds like there are some right nutters out there



And that writer wrote _Severance_, a brilliantly black brit comedy.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 14, 2009)

Btw i've just started watching The Thick of It on the basis of this series.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 14, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> One of the writers has had to issue a rebuttal to some of the more hysterical 'fan' criticism of the series:
> 
> Sounds like there are some right nutters out there



I'm tempted to send him a link to the 'Duty Log Mental' section of Holy Moly! to demonstrate that the people who were writing about 'even that I'm hurting depressed people with dark storylines. ' are actually fucking fruitloops.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 14, 2009)

Some people are just dumb though. 

You don't want red top syndrome where only unimportant people die as where is the excitement, the risk if you know all your favs are untouchable. 

I love a series where anyone could get it. It means it's a real adventure and seat edge show when you know they are all truly in danger.


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 14, 2009)

Gromit said:


> I love a series where anyone could get it. It means it's a real adventure and seat edge show when you know they are all truly in danger.


Good point


----------



## Iguana (Jul 14, 2009)

Gromit said:


> You don't want red top syndrome where only unimportant people die as where is the excitement, the risk if you know all your favs are untouchable.
> 
> I love a series where anyone could get it. It means it's a real adventure and seat edge show when you know they are all truly in danger.



Yup, but the internet is full of crazy shit about Torchwood.  They are mad that 3 main characters were killed in the space of 5 episodes.  (Tosh and Owen in the S2 finale and Ianto in Ep 4 of CoE.)  

There are people claiming that the gay community will now be boycotting all of Davies work as killing Ianto betrayed his and Jack's love and was really a self-hating homophobic move.  

People who have had enough of all the dark stories about the weakness of humans and want to have a happy ending "for a change."


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 14, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> Btw i've just started watching The Thick of It on the basis of this series.


It's a pretty strained link, tbf.

Still, there are worse things to do than watch Capaldi's 'filmography'.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 14, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> It's a pretty strained link, tbf.



I'll admit, it was the Obama-style photoshop earlier in this thread that was largely responsible.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 14, 2009)

Iguana said:


> Yup, but the internet is full of crazy shit about Torchwood.  They are mad that 3 main characters were killed in the space of 5 episodes.  (Tosh and Owen in the S2 finale and Ianto in Ep 4 of CoE.)



If these people are meant to be Torchwood fans then why don't they understand one of the show's prevalent themes - that part of the great sadness Jack carries with him is down to the fact he outlives everyone who is special to him. And that to bring that fact into sharp focus, sometimes the writers are going to have to kill off those near and dear to him.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 14, 2009)

It's also been mentioned a couple of times on the programme that the the life expectancy of a Torchwood operative tends to be short. Not many make it to retirement.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 14, 2009)

fogbat said:


> It's also been mentioned a couple of times on the programme that the the life expectancy of a Torchwood operative tends to be short. Not many make it to retirement.



Yep. I really hate 'fans' who think fictional characters are somehow their own personal property. Grow up, you daft cunts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 14, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> Yep. I really hate 'fans' who think fictional characters are somehow their own personal property. Grow up, you daft cunts.



ennit. Write some fanfic if you want a say over what characters do (and aren't blessed with even the tiniest scrap of self awareness)


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2009)

Quartz said:


> I think they should leave it there and go out on a high note. Knowing when to move on is important. Don't let it fizzle out like so many American shows.



after its biggest ratings success by far?  no chance.  and it would be a waste to get rid just as its started becoming actually good


----------



## Gromit (Jul 14, 2009)

Iguana said:


> There are people claiming that the gay community will now be boycotting all of Davies work as killing Ianto betrayed his and Jack's love and was really a self-hating homophobic move.



Was killing Tosh and Owen a self hating hetrosexual move then?

Sorry but if you bring characters into a story where people die left right and centre don't be surprised if they die. Being gay doesn't give you a special bullet proof vest. Gay, straight we're all the same. If you shoot us do we not bleed? Down with positive discrimination for gay characters. Up with killing anyone regardless of sexuality, creed or colour. 

So long as they don't die of too much bumming or something homophobic then they should be glad of the equality. He died a hero and a martyr. That's a positive portrayal of homosexuals for a change isn't it?  

Besides Ianto wasn't gay. He didn't fancy men. Just Jack. He said so himself.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 14, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Was killing Tosh and Owen a self hating hetrosexual move then?



Didn't Tosh have at least one girl-girl moment iirc? Not sure about Owen, although he seemed pretty keen to fuck anything that moved didn't he?


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2009)

well, he raped a man and a woman in the very first episode


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 14, 2009)

belboid said:


> well, he raped a man and a woman in the very first episode



He got off with them courtesy of some alien rohypnol- not quite as bad as that.


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2009)

I doubt that would have been their opinion (if they weren't fictitious characters...)


----------



## Iguana (Jul 14, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> He got off with them courtesy of some alien rohypnol- not quite as bad as that.



He did intend to rape the woman.  It was only when her boyfriend tried to rescue her that Owen decided to snog the boyfriend rather than get beat up.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> He got off with them courtesy of some alien rohypnol- not quite as bad as that.



So he intended to (to use a rather crap neologism) "date-rape" them. 
The point is he had to dose them with some alien drug to get any action.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 14, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> The point is he had to dose them with some alien drug to get any action.



Except the repugnant little toad didn't.  Only weeks later Gwen was letting him sweat all over her.  Tosh pined after him for years.  And then 50's pilot woman had an intense affair with him, though she did fly back into the rift into an unknown fate almost immediately after.


----------



## belboid (Jul 15, 2009)

Iguana said:


> And then 50's pilot woman had an utterly unbelievable and cringeworthy affair with him,



corrected for you


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 15, 2009)

Iguana said:


> Except the repugnant little toad didn't.  Only weeks later Gwen was letting him sweat all over her.  Tosh pined after him for years.  And then 50's pilot woman had an intense affair with him, though she did fly back into the rift into an unknown fate almost immediately after.



Read. Slowly.
He. Had. To. Drug. The. Couple. In. The. Bar.
It's also plainly obvious, if you re-watch the episode, that the implication is that it isn't the first time he's used the alien drug/pheromone/whatever to get himself a piece of arse.


----------



## Iguana (Jul 15, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> Read. Slowly.
> He. Had. To. Drug. The. Couple. In. The. Bar.
> It's also plainly obvious, if you re-watch the episode, that the implication is that it isn't the first time he's used the alien drug/pheromone/whatever to get himself a piece of arse.



Maybe he'd also used it on Tosh, Gwen and 50's pilot?  It would explain a lot.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 15, 2009)

Iguana said:


> Maybe he'd also used it on Tosh, Gwen and 50's pilot?  It would explain a lot.



IIRC Jack locked it up in "the vault", so we'll just have to blame Tosh's incarceration by UNIT for her bad taste, and Gwen's ancestor having been possessed by aliens for hers.
'50s pilot woman though, she's got *no* excuse, the mad dingbat!


----------



## scifisam (Jul 15, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> Read. Slowly.
> He. Had. To. Drug. The. Couple. In. The. Bar.
> It's also plainly obvious, if you re-watch the episode, that the implication is that it isn't the first time he's used the alien drug/pheromone/whatever to get himself a piece of arse.



I'm a bit confused - is this Jack you're talking about?


----------



## belboid (Jul 15, 2009)

no, Owen


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2009)

scifisam said:


> I'm a bit confused - is this Jack you're talking about?



No, I'm talking about gurning frog-faced mofo, AKA "Owen".


----------



## scifisam (Jul 16, 2009)

Ah. I'm kinda glad I didn't watch seasons 1 and 2, then.


----------



## 8den (Jul 16, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> No, I'm talking about gurning frog-faced mofo, AKA "Owen".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 16, 2009)

8den said:


>



You look at that picture, and you can almost hear the bastard go "ribbit", can't you?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 16, 2009)

ViolentPanda said:


> You look at that picture, and you can almost hear the bastard go "ribbit", can't you?



He is King of the Frogmen


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2009)

Oh.  I quite liked Owen.  Didn't see the date-rape episode though.


----------



## T & P (Jul 16, 2009)

Corax said:


> Oh.  I quite liked Owen.


 Can't say I did myself. Found him miserable, devoid of charisma and boring.

And the missus tells me really ugly as well.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 16, 2009)

T & P said:


> Can't say I did myself. Found him miserable, devoid of charisma and boring.
> 
> And the missus tells me really ugly as well.



He became a bit more interesting after he died (the first time) and the story of how he joined Torchwood in the first place was pretty good, too. A pretty terrible character apart from those modest peaks though...


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jul 18, 2009)

Finally watched all the episodes on sky plus... excellent and a fantastically downbeat ending.

Torchwood has had it's faults and ridiculous moments but that was great, especially the Jack/Doctor parallels... everyone he cared about will die while he remains...


----------



## Private Storm (Jul 23, 2009)

Damnundblast, had the last episode of Children of Earth recorded and went to watch it....and feckin' TiVo has cocked up and recorded something else. No worries I think, iPlayer to the rescue. Not so, they only have the 1st episode. How the hell does that work, surely they should have the later episodes, rather than the 1st one? 

Gutted of Brixton


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 23, 2009)

torrent it


----------



## ddraig (Jul 25, 2009)

*Ianto obsessives on the case*

poor dab Ianto




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8166655.stm



			
				bbc said:
			
		

> Fans aim to save sci-fi character
> 
> The website,  SaveIantoJones   , includes an option to donate to the BBC charity in honour of the character.
> 
> ...


http://www.saveiantojones.com/

awww


----------



## Corax (Jul 25, 2009)

> "as sorrowful and hurt as any death of a person close to us"


If I was 'close to' any of these muppets I may find that a wee bit offensive.  It's like the twats that described Diana's introduction to concrete as 'like one of my family's died'.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 25, 2009)

oh come the fuck on, is this for real?

What's next? a bring back fucking Adric campaign?


----------



## Corax (Jul 25, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> bring back fucking Adric



I must have missed that episode.

That Doctor, he's such a rogue.


----------



## punkrockfaggot (Jul 26, 2009)

So are we agreed? Owen = Date-rapist?


----------



## RubyBlue (Jul 26, 2009)

punkrockfaggot said:


> So are we agreed? Owen = Date-rapist?



What?  I loved Owen


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2009)

RubyBlue said:


> What?  I loved Owen



he used alien rohypnol spray to bone his victims


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 26, 2009)

Apparently TW has been picked up for a fourth season...

http://www.comicmix.com/news/2009/07/25/exclusive-torchwood-picked-up-for-another-season-by-bbc/


----------



## RubyBlue (Jul 26, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> Apparently TW has been picked up for a fourth season...
> 
> http://www.comicmix.com/news/2009/07/25/exclusive-torchwood-picked-up-for-another-season-by-bbc/



Oh cool - I love this programme so much


----------



## London_Calling (Jul 26, 2009)

That's  like saying the BBC would "pick up" anothe series of The Office, or I might "pick up" Jennifer Anistan.

I think it rather depends on RTD.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 26, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> Apparently TW has been picked up for a fourth season...
> 
> http://www.comicmix.com/news/2009/07/25/exclusive-torchwood-picked-up-for-another-season-by-bbc/



The comments on that article are mind-bendingly witless.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 27, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> The comments on that article are mind-bendingly witless.



Couldn't be arsed to read the comments but here's a quote about the future of TW from RTD from the Doctor Who panel at Comicon this past weekend...

"I hope so. We were astonished by the success of that last series. I really, really hope so. I can't give you a promise because I haven't had the meetings with the right people yet. Also there's a recession going on. It will be back, but maybe the ones you want back won't be back. It will be back in some shape or form."


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 27, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> oh come the fuck on, is this for real?
> 
> What's next? a bring back fucking Adric campaign?



I can't help but notice an overwhelming absence of 'bring back Owen and Tosh' campaigns


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 27, 2009)

Bring back Tosh!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 28, 2009)

Stigmata said:


> Bring back Tosh!



Tosh by name, tosh by nature.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 12, 2010)

I guess I'm a bit behind the times.  I just watched series two of this. (I tend to watch series out of order because I watch them in the order that I get them from the library.)

It took me about four eps to figure out what the hell was going on.  The sexuality of the show was a bit mind-bending at first, at least for a goodie-goodie, midwestern girl.  I have to admit being mildly puzzled by the guy on guy action that I saw in the first eps.  I think it was the fact that there wasn't any lead-up to it and you just generally wouldn't see the hero doing that on American tv.  

By and large I liked the series, at least, after I figured out why they were running aound and shooting at things.  It's seriously stupid, which is fine.  Sometimes all I want is mind candy. 

Naturally, they killed off my favorite characters.  I was very sad when they killed Owen, but being SF, he walked around for while afterward.  I have a knack for picking doomed characters.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 12, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> I can't help but notice an overwhelming absence of 'bring back Owen and Tosh' campaigns



I liked both characters better than Capt Jack.  There are times I'd like to slap the lipstick right off his pretty-boy mouth. 

What annoys me most is that he's that sterotypical brash American character that you'all like it use, complete with lines like "He's an american" as if that explains everything.  It gets annoying after the 100th time, FFS.  It annoys me as much you probably are over the Brits all being the villian characters in our tv.


----------



## Iguana (Apr 12, 2010)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> complete with lines like "He's an american" as if that explains everything.



Jack's not American, he's not even from earth.  He's from a world that humanity has colonised by the 51st century.  He was posing as an American soldier in the 1940's when he was first seen, but that's not where he's from.  The actor is Scottish, though his family moved to America while he was in school.

Jack is the way he is because of the gaps in his memory when his former employers wiped his mind, the fact that he comes from a completely different culture and his immortality.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 12, 2010)

Iguana said:


> The actor is Scottish, though his family moved to America while he was in school.



That explains the strange hybrid accent.  I thought he was a Brit doing a bad Midwestern accent.


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