# Radio 4



## Edie (Dec 12, 2011)

Do you love it? Or hate it? What programmes do you like best? I'd never ever listenned to it until I met the other half, but he fuckin LOVES it and it's grown on me.

I like the fact that you can turn it on and quite often it's something totally random that you don't know anything about at all or a subject you've never thought about.

Plus Ritula Shah has a well sexy voice when your led in bed


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## machine cat (Dec 12, 2011)

sarah montague's voice does it for me


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## Meltingpot (Dec 12, 2011)

Love quite a lot of it, especially the science, news and debate programmes. I also like "Just a Minute" and some of the quizzes such as "Counterpoint" and "Brain of Britain." 

"Great Lives" is good too.

I miss the shipping forecast and the tune "Sailing By" these days 'cos I'm not up late enough though.


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## Reno (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm addicted to Radio 4 and listen to it for much of the day at work on my headphones. My favourite programmes are Any Questions, The Moral Maze, Front Row, Saturday Review, Desert Island Discs, Saturday Live, Start the Week, From Our Own Correspondent, PM, Thinking Allowed, A Good Read and The News Quiz. I don't really care for The Archers and the plays after lunch, so then I listen to podcasts and I rejoin Radio 4 by 16:00 or so. Culturally Radio 4 was the thing I missed the most about the UK when I lived in the US for a few years. It was almost like missing a good friend, I find it such a comfort.


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## Edie (Dec 12, 2011)

Oh god the comedy totally does my head in cos it's so smug


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 12, 2011)

I find the transition from the Today programme to Desert Island Discs rather jarring.


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## Edie (Dec 12, 2011)

Meltingpot said:


> Love quite a lot of it, especially the science, news and debate programmes. I also like "Just a Minute" and some of the quizzes such as "Counterpoint" and "Brain of Britain."
> 
> "Great Lives" is good too.
> 
> I miss the shipping forecast and the tune "Sailing By" these days 'cos I'm not up late enough though.


Ooooh I like Great Lives too


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## killer b (Dec 12, 2011)

mostly shit, on balance. but can be brilliant, and still better than almost every other station.


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## stethoscope (Dec 12, 2011)

Occasionally wake up to Today although I wouldn't say I'm usually listening that attentively to it, and pretty often fall asleep to Today in Parliament too! Listen to some of their documentaries which can be excellent and really varied (from stuff on the financial crisis to notting hill carnival). Woman's Hour too if its got a subject of interest on.

That's about it though. I used to listen to the Moral Maze but it just irritates me now.


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## Edie (Dec 12, 2011)

killer b said:


> mostly shit, on balance. but can be brilliant, and still better than almost every other station.


Why shit?


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## veracity (Dec 12, 2011)

The programmes that always have me switching off are Woman's Hour and You and Yours.

Great Lives is a real gem, definitely the sort of programme that keeps me listening to R4.


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## Reno (Dec 12, 2011)

Edie said:


> Why shit?



Class war, yaddayadda, the usual probably.


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## killer b (Dec 12, 2011)

archers: shit
all the comedy: shit
all the drama: shit
this morning: piss-boiling shit
moral maze: shit with added cunt
womens hour: shit

i don't mind _in our time_, some of the docs are good.


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## killer b (Dec 12, 2011)

Reno said:


> Class war, yaddayadda, the usual probably.


you can fuck off btw.


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## Edie (Dec 12, 2011)

killer b said:


> archers: shit
> all the comedy: shit
> all the drama: shit
> this morning: piss-boiling shit
> ...


Actually, I agree with a lot of that. Except moral maze cos I find that interesting.

I LOVE womens hour!!!


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## Shirl (Dec 12, 2011)

I wouldn't say I love it but I do listen to 4 hours a day if I'm working and I have it on at home all day from 7am to 7.15pm when I'm not working. Quite often it will be on and I won't really be listening to it. Even so, I often come out with something that I've heard on the radio and not even realised. I've been known to make sensible comments on football and cricket after absent mindedly hearing stuff on radio 4.


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## veracity (Dec 12, 2011)

The Archers is shit, I hate all the characters but still feel compelled to listen, I think they lace it with crack.


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## Mapped (Dec 12, 2011)

I used to wake up to the Today programme, but then it started doing my head in so I wake up to music now.

There is the odd bit of good comedy. Off the top of my head I like 'Down The Line', Ed Reardon and the Dave Podmore cricket programmes. The Now Show and that one with Sandi Tosvig are fucking smug and grating though.


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## colacubes (Dec 12, 2011)

Mostly aces.  I switch between Radio 4 and 5Live depending on the time of day/presenter etc.

Listen to Today every weekday morning as it's on our alarm.  Totally variable depending on whether that twat Humphries is on or not Otherwise I like Desert Island Discs, Broadcasting House, Great Lives, Now Show, Just a Minute, Any Questions/Any Answers, The News Quiz, Womens Hour, World at One, most of the comedy (not Clare in the Community though ) and oddly I find Farming Today strangely reassuring whenever I'm up early enough to hear it.  The Archers can fuck right off though


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## marty21 (Dec 12, 2011)

Wake up to Today every morning, occasionally it gets on my tits so I turn on the other radio next to the bed which is tuned into Fivelive, but that gets on my tits slightly more.

Like the panel game stuff, like Desert Island Discs, GQT, the phone in thing with Dimblebot jr (loonathong!) Hate the plays - usually awful - the comedy series are usually pretty dire as well. Saturday morning is great - Today, the Live show afterwards, the travel one, tends to keep me in bed til 11 Not a big fan of the Archers tbf


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## colacubes (Dec 12, 2011)

marty21 said:


> Wake up to Today every morning, occasionally it gets on my tits so I turn on the other radio next to the bed which is tuned into Fivelive, but that gets on my tits slightly more.
> 
> Like the panel game stuff, like Desert Island Discs, GQT, the phone in thing with Dimblebot jr (loonathong!) Hate the plays - usually awful - the comedy series are usually pretty dire as well. Saturday morning is great - Today, the Live show afterwards, the travel one, tends to keep me in bed til 11 Not a big fan of the Archers tbf



Yeah, Saturday morning's usually a good run if you fancy a doze and a lie in


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## gentlegreen (Dec 12, 2011)

These days it's only the odd comedy - like Clare in the Community - which I usually hear on 4extra anyway - Laurie Taylor - via podcast.
About the only programme I make any effort to catch regularly is The News Quiz ...


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## starfish (Dec 12, 2011)

I like PM with Eddie Mair. Some of the comedy can be very good & the occassional play. Also some of the features they do, like the one the other day on Archer Blood. And Gardeners question time.


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## Scaggs (Dec 13, 2011)

I used to listen all the time but I can't stand it lately. Can't even listen to Today since Evan Davis joined the team.


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## Badgers (Dec 13, 2011)

I got mocked a bit for lying in my tent at Glastonbury listing to Radio 4


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## Mapped (Dec 13, 2011)

Badgers said:


> I got mocked a bit for lying in my tent at Glastonbury listing to Radio 4



I've mocked a mate of mine for this exact same thing. He puts on Radio 4 to help him get back to a level of reality when it all gets a bit much 

Saying that I have been known to put R4 long wave on at a festival to get a bit of TMS cricket coverage


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## Badgers (Dec 13, 2011)

N1 Buoy said:


> Saying that I have been known to put R4 long wave on at a festival to get a bit of TMS cricket coverage


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## wayward bob (Dec 13, 2011)

festie sunday mornings for me are always travel scrabble + archers omnibus 

i grew up with r4 constantly on in the background, and i do pretty much the same. i find random speech much less intrusive than random music.

turn on: in our time, all in the mind and all the sciency progs, news quiz (only for jeremy hardy/andy hamilton really), pm/world at one, some of the comedies, the archers, the saturday play, classic serial (depending what it is), from our own correspondent, woman's hour depending on who's on, any questions, moneybox.

turn off: laurie taylor, moral maze, any answers, poetry please, just a minute, gardener's question time, fi glover, most of the comedies, afternoon play, you & yours (_race_ to the off switch if it's a phone in).


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## Meltingpot (Dec 13, 2011)

I think the Archers needs its own thread.

I also agree with what's been said about comedy. There are some genuinely funny people on Radio 4 (I like Sean Lock a lot, for example), but there are others I don't find at all funny.


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## gentlegreen (Dec 13, 2011)

wayward bob said:


> i grew up with r4 constantly on in the background, and i do pretty much the same. i find random speech much less intrusive than random music.
> .


So did I, but I now find radio 4 too depressing - mostly because of the continual news broadcasts - ditto World Service ... the only news broadcasts I now listen to / watch are French ones - and even those sporadically.

My reassurance now comes from droney ambient - sometimes mixed with Attenborough or Time Team on the telly ...

I thoroughly reccomend droney ambient - I can't bear to be alone at night with just my own distressing thoughts..


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## fen_boy (Dec 13, 2011)

starfish said:


> I like PM with Eddie Mair. Some of the comedy can be very good & the occassional play. Also some of the features they do, like the one the other day on Archer Blood. And Gardeners question time.



My wife says if I ever get hit by a bus she's going to marry Eddie Mair, I think that's why she's learning to drive a bus...

(...she isn't.)


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## fredfelt (Dec 13, 2011)

Thought for the day winds me up no end!

There's a whole world of interesting subjects which could be selected - but this slot limits itself to religious dogma.  Sort it out BBC!


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 13, 2011)

Always turn it on - and then often turn it off in disgust.

Most of the comedy and drama is utterly fucking dire - smug, middle class, vapid bollocks.

The now show is utterly shit.

Other instant turn offs -

You and Yours, Money Box, The Archers, Thought for the fucking day, Front Row (mainly becasue of mark lawson).

Loose Ends I listen to with gritted teeth if it has somebody interesting on it - but Clive Anderson is another typically smug punchable oxbridge cunt. He's even worse then the bloke they had before (ned sherrin?). He is incredibly condsecending and judgemental about anything or anybody he doesn't care for from his lofty heights of intellect/taste - typical of this was when Shaun Ryder was on and he treated him like cross between a headmaster ticking off an errrant schoolboy and something from a zoo - had no repsect or interest or understanding of what he was about or where he was coming from. I wanted Shaun to punch him or at least give him a mouthful of abuse.

Womens Hour, great lives, Desert Island Discs, In Our Time can be good depnding whose on who is on or the subject matter.
DID - kirsty young is infinitely better then Sue Tory Lawley - although the latters transparent discomfort when talking to Linton 'Brixton uprising' Kwiesi Johnson and Paul 'my next record is G_od save the Queen_ by the sex pistols' Whitehouse made inadvertantly brilliant radio).

Im ok with PM and today - tends to be a bit more irreverent and insightful than the BBC TV news.

Moral Maze just has cunts on it - Clare Fox as the 'radical voice' ffs

News Quiz is pretty consistantly good and you get the occasional good documentry, book and play.

Overall though Radio 4 is aimed at upper middle class surburbia and is dominated by middle aged male oxbridge cunts - and the content very much reflects this. It angers me because its paid for by everybody and yet is juat aimed at one-over influential section of society.


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## stethoscope (Dec 13, 2011)

BigPhil said:


> Thought for the day winds me up no end!
> 
> There's a whole world of interesting subjects which could be selected - but this slot limits itself to religious dogma. Sort it out BBC!



Whilst not a huge listener to Today these days, it's the way that TFTD just disrupts the flow of Today - put it on before or after Today, but not just crashing in the middle


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## frogwoman (Dec 13, 2011)

I like some of the comedy they have on it, like the show with Jack Dee, forgotten what its called.


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## fredfelt (Dec 13, 2011)

stephj said:


> Whilst not a huge listener to Today these days, it's the way that TFTD just disrupts the flow of Today - put it on before or after Today, but not just crashing in the middle



I quite like the concept of a few minutes of thinking time away from the news. What irriates me is that it's artificailly limited to religious thinking. 'Thought for the day' is misleading. 'Religious thought for the day' is what it is.


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## Ms T (Dec 13, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> My wife says if I ever get hit by a bus she's going to marry Eddie Mair, I think that's why she's learning to drive a bus...
> 
> (...she isn't.)



You should tell her he bats for the other side and is happily civil partnered....


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## wayward bob (Dec 13, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Overall though Radio 4 is aimed at upper middle class surburbia and is dominated by middle aged male oxbridge cunts - and the content very much reflects this. It angers me because its paid for by everybody and yet is juat aimed at one-over influential section of society.



just because those types are overrepresented in the production/presentation of the programmes it doesn't follow that they are the sole target audience at all. like bbc4 telly i think there's a lot of interesting/intelligent content presented in a generally accessible way.

don't get me started on round britain quiz though


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## fen_boy (Dec 13, 2011)

Ms T said:


> You should tell her he bats for the other side and is happily civil partnered....



Oh dear. I'm not sure I can break it to her.


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## fredfelt (Dec 13, 2011)

I really like it when there's a program that grabs my attention.  Any subject will do.  Perhaps I'll hear it when I'm doing stuff in the Kitchen.

It's a real pleasure stopping and listening to something that grabs your attention.  It's a bit of a cliché but often the pictures can be better when heard on the radio.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 13, 2011)

wayward bob said:


> just because those types are overrepresented in the production/presentation of the programmes it doesn't follow that they are the sole target audience at all. like bbc4 telly i think there's a lot of interesting/intelligent content presented in a generally accessible way.



Well they are over-represented and it is massively reflected in the content and general smug, partonising attitude. BBC4 sticks mainly to documentaries so is less likely to have the same issues.
Radio 4 docs can be very good and are often the best thing on it.


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## frogwoman (Dec 13, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_Sorry_I_Haven't_a_Clue this one, this one is good.


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## magneze (Dec 13, 2011)

Today is alright. Always wake up to it and then have it on until 9 if I'm at home. Most of the drama is a bit meh. Some of the comedy is ok. Archers should just be stopped.

I find the World Service generally better for news & current affairs these days. Fuck knows what's going to happen though as it's all going to be merged in some kind of clusterfuck AFAIK. Hope they keep "World Have Your Say". That's a great listen at 6pm - consistently interesting and insightful.


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## wayward bob (Dec 13, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Well they are over-represented and it is massively reflected in the content and general smug, partonising attitude.



again i don't get this. i am neither male, suburban, oxbridge or upper-middle class. i may count as middle aged by now but as i said i've listened since i was a kid.

what alternative content would you suggest as being more representative of the majority of society?


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 13, 2011)

I like Radio 4 Extra better, less news.


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## Andrew Hertford (Dec 13, 2011)

I couldn't live without Radio 4 or 4 Extra. Apart from 'Today' I listen to most of it on iplayer these days whilst I'm working. ISIHAC still makes me roar with laughter.


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## gentlegreen (Dec 13, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> I like Radio 4 Extra better, less news.



Except whenever I switch on, it sems to be Count Arthur strong and The Navy Lark. 

iPlayer FTW.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dxkzc


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 13, 2011)

Can't stand PM - lightweight drivetime news with ideas above its station, and Mair is easily the smuggest person on R4.


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## Zabo (Dec 13, 2011)

Love it! Some superb plays and then there's the brilliant _From Our Own  Correspondent_ - Fooc. The _Today_ programme after 7:00a.m. Given they get in the office at 4:00a.m. I am surprised they haven't taken on a kid to sort out the newspapers for them. They are forever shuffling through them and losing their place.

_The Shipping Forecast_ and Sailing By. Pure poetry. Likewise the _Book At Bedtime_. The other week it was Dickens read by this ever so sexy sounding chick.

Comedy can be a bit hit and miss but let's not forget it's the trial ground for lots of comedy that sometimes hits the mainstream. You can't have perfection.

_The Archers._ If I had my way I'd fill the bleedin' studio with twenty tons of manure.

Radio 4 is the crown jewels of the BBC. Radio 5 is nothing less than manic shite. Even when they have finished with the football news every 30 minutes they carry it on into the other programmes. And then there's the Radio 5 People's Phone in at 9:00a.m. Oh no, I'll stay away from that!

As for all the class issue bollocks. Best thing to do would be to write to Laurie Taylor on _Thinking Allowed_ and ask him to do an Urban special. That would be fun.

And lastly what would we do without Melvyn's weekly cerebral gymnastics?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b017x3p4/In_Our_Time_Heraclitus/

Terrific!


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## Captain Hurrah (Dec 13, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> infinitely better then Sue Tory Lawley - although the latters transparent discomfort when talking to Linton 'Brixton uprising' Kwiesi Johnson



Was that nearly a decade ago?  She didn't seem comfortable with him talking about class inequality. IIRC he pwned her, when  after Johnson's talk of the _anger_ among his peers, she started talking about how people from his generation had changed, implying they were 'better' middle class people instead of horrible little proles.


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## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2011)

I listen to Radio 4 a bit, but I listen to Radio 4 Extra most of the time. I like the 7th Dimension. This week they've got brand new Doctor Who starring Tom Baker! 



gentlegreen said:


> Except whenever I switch on, it sems to be Count Arthur strong and The Navy Lark.
> 
> iPlayer FTW.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dxkzc


I quite like Count Arthur Strong.


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## frogwoman (Dec 13, 2011)

world service is definitely better, havent listened in years though, fucking disgrace they're cutting funding and shutting down departments that broadcast other languages though.


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## Bungle73 (Dec 13, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> world service is definitely better, havent listened in years though, fucking disgrace they're cutting funding and shutting down departments that broadcast other languages though.


I used to listen to that a lot too, when I was going to sleep (after Radio 4 finished), but not so much now since I got DAB and can listen to R4 Extra. I don't like that they changed the times of Click and the weekend edition of The Strand; I used to listen to them as I went to sleep, but now they're on at the wrong times!


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## frogwoman (Dec 13, 2011)

they shut down the afghan dept (or at least severely reduced it) about three years ago, as a mate of mine's mum used to work there for 20 years and loads of people were made redundant. i heard they were doing the same to the romanian dept, or had already done it.


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## Mapped (Dec 13, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I quite like Count Arthur Strong.



So do I. I was listening to him on iplayer last night


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 13, 2011)

Radio 4 kept me sane with a reasonably intelligent adult voice (I switched off all phone-ins) throughout single parenthood and working to the point of exhaustion. For that alone I love it.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 13, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> I thoroughly reccomend droney ambient - I can't bear to be alone at night with just my own distressing thoughts..


Yup, helps switch off the over-active brain when it's time to sleep.


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## Jon-of-arc (Dec 13, 2011)

Today in parliament and midnight news to go to sleep to, the odd bit of comedy.

Usually crap in the evening, but if my parents put it on during the day it often seems interesting.

Im feeling world service and back episodes of a podcast called Skeptic Check, for non music radio atm.


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## oryx (Dec 13, 2011)

I like the news programmes, Woman's Hour and Desert Island Discs, plus the odd random thing that you just happen to pick up (e.g. I loved Robert Elms' piece on squatting).

I'm not keen on the drama. I don't know if it's just me, or a figment of my imagination, but does R4 specialise in middle-class actors doing the most excruciating impersonations of people with local accents?

You get the odd good play, but generally when I switch on R4 and hear the unmistakeable sound of mediocre R4 drama I have to zap it.


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## siramone (Dec 13, 2011)

I've recently tuned it into the DAB and found out that having not listened to it for a few years its comforting to hear current affairs and random stuff. I'm glad its still around as it can entertain and inform. However I do switch off when when it gets too middle-class drama and listening to politicians does my head in nowadays arguing circular arguments.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 14, 2011)

oryx said:


> I don't know if it's just me, or a figment of my imagination, but does R4 specialise in middle-class actors doing the most excruciating impersonations of people with local accents?
> 
> .



No it s not just you - that is exactly my experience.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 14, 2011)

wayward bob said:


> what alternative content would you suggest as being more representative of the majority of society?



Its not about representing the majority, its having more stuff that isn't just representing the same narrow group - affluent, educated, upper middle class and mature.The overall tone of radio 4 assumes the listener shares the same tastes and interests.

Example - how much stuff do you get on how to plan your savings, where to place to your investments, buying and selling property etc etc? Theres pretty much something every day with ususaly with people phoning the panel of experts with "I invested £30,000 in unit trusts" "out second home in the south of france" etc etc.

How much stuff do you get on what benefits you are entitled to? How to survive on a very low income? Next to nothing - certainly no regular feature. Yet that is something that would of great use to maybe 5 million people in this country.

The comedy is utterly fucking dire. It is very rarely about stuff being hit and miss becasue its new talent trying something different. Its the same old tired cosy shite with the same smug, sneery, partronising, upper middle class persepctive from the same old people - often sad sacks like steve punt who can no longer get work on telly.


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## fredfelt (Dec 14, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Its not about representing the majority, its having more stuff that isn't just representing the same narrow group - affluent, educated, upper middle class and mature.The overall tone of radio 4 assumes the listener shares the same tastes and interests.
> 
> Example - how much stuff do you get on how to plan your savings, where to place to your investments, buying and selling property etc etc? Theres pretty much something every day with ususaly with people phoning the panel of experts with "I invested £30,000 in unit trusts" "out second home in the south of france" etc etc.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure of your complaints are entirely justified.

The last times I heard 'Money Box' the features were 'Are overdraft charges too high' and 'Managing borrowing and debt'.

I don't know if you class Mark Steel as 'upper middle class' but the 18:30 comedy slot yesterday evening was stand up from him.

Another comedy / science program at the moment is 'Infinite Monkey Cage'.  I recommend this.

Sure there's other stuff I don't like - but I don't listen to it (most plays, The Archers for example)


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> My wife says if I ever get hit by a bus she's going to marry Eddie Mair, I think that's why she's learning to drive a bus...
> 
> (...she isn't.)


He's gay and in a civil partnership. Tell her gently....


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 14, 2011)

Put on Radio 4 Extra in bed last night and was treated to classic episodes of The Mighty Boosh and Knowing Me, Knowing You. I went to sleep with a smile on my face.

_Radio 4 - replacing sex in marriages since 1967_


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## wayward bob (Dec 14, 2011)

BigPhil said:


> I'm not sure of your complaints are entirely justified.
> 
> The last times I heard 'Money Box' the features were 'Are overdraft charges too high' and 'Managing borrowing and debt'.



they've been doing a fair bit on payday loans lately too.


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## kabbes (Dec 14, 2011)

This is bizarre. I hadn't read this thread at all, but at the urban curry yesterday I claimed that Radio 4 was real urbans. I think it was Paolo (citation needed, with apologies if I have misattributed) who said that "listening to Radio 4 whilst slightly worrying that listening to Radio 4 isn't real urbans" is real urbans.


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## fredfelt (Dec 14, 2011)

kabbes said:


> This is bizarre. I hadn't read this thread at all, but at the urban curry yesterday I claimed that Radio 4 was real urbans. I think it was Paolo (citation needed, with apologies if I have misattributed) who said that "listening to Radio 4 whilst slightly worrying that listening to Radio 4 isn't real urbans" is real urbans.



To be certain next time these meetings should be recorded.  Just think of the endless inconsequential debates to be had in days following ; )


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## Reno (Dec 14, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> He's gay and in a civil partnership. Tell her gently....



Rohypnol (or chloroform if you are old school), viagra and a secret dungeon could still make that marriage work.


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## purves grundy (Dec 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> world service is definitely better, havent listened in years though, fucking disgrace they're cutting funding and shutting down departments that broadcast other languages though.


I've been listening to the World Service for years on my little shortwave radio, and it's pretty dreadful now. Schedule is something like 17.00-17.30 - News Round-up; 17.30 - 18.00 - Sports News Round-Up; 18.00 - 19.00 The News Hour, followed by a summary of the news; 19.00 - 20.00 - World Have Your Say (in which folk speaking in incomprehensible English on a phone line that sounds like its full of crazed hornets); 20.00 - 21.00 Best News Programme Ever! etc etc.

I mostly download the R4 podcasts and listen at home. In Our Time (get a bit bored when they're just banging on about a single historical figure, the more general philosophy / historical event ones are fab - a few weeks ago the one about the Analytic - Continental Philosophy split was possibly the best ever); Thinking Allowed (v suprised to read that a few people don't like Laurie); Weekly Political Review, Westminster Hour and Today in Parliament are great round-ups for folk like me who aren't in the UK.


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## wayward bob (Dec 14, 2011)

everyone knows about the in our time archive, right? gets me to sleep _every_ time


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## trashpony (Dec 14, 2011)

Yep - that was my recent experience of listening to the World Service purves.

I have radio 4 on pretty much all the time except when it's getting on my tits when I switch to radio 6. I've grown up with it because radio 4 was the only British radio station that broadcast on LW.

I hate Any Questions and Any Answers, the Moral Maze, In our Time (loathe Melvyn) and most of the drama and 'comedy'.

I remain as crushed by the news of Eddie Mair's sexuality as I first was when Ms T told me in 2005. I love the Archers and sometimes quite like Woman's Hour. More or Less is fantastic, as is the Infinite Monkey Cage. Many of the science and music programmes are great and the benefit of radio is that you can mentally tune in and out when you want. I don't like silence


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## gentlegreen (Dec 14, 2011)

trashpony said:


> *Infinite Monkey Cage*. Many of the science and music programmes are great and the benefit of radio is that you can mentally tune in and out when you want. I don't like silence


I caught that last night for the first time - I liked that - must try to "listen again" to the rest over Xmas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/timc

Brian Cox is a bit much given a whole series, but is very entertaining when thinking outside his usual field.
(Stephen Fry can just twitter off ...) I'll never learn to like Alice Roberts - even if she sorted her weird accent ...

I like "The Living World" too - the season always seems too short :-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007qyz3


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## wayward bob (Dec 14, 2011)

along the infinite monkey cage line i also really liked the museum of everything, they had some really interesting people on. obvs dave gorman tolerance required.


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## purenarcotic (Dec 14, 2011)

I grew up listening to Radio 4 a lot, don't know why I don't listen to it nowadays, some of the daytime documentaries are really well made and interesting.

The Archers drives me fucking insane, I had to listen to it religiously as a kid growing up and my mum, out of some sick cruel sense of humour, ensures when I go home to stay that dinner is ready just in time for the 15 minutes of hell.

Has anybody ever listened to Private Passions on Radio 3?  If you think R4 has got class problems, that show is in a league of its own.  It often feels like a parody of itself but it isn't, it's hilarious listening.


----------



## gentlegreen (Dec 14, 2011)

Nigel Pargetter's demise marked the point where I finally weaned myself off the Archers - at the end of the day it's just another soap ...  Though I must confess I've caught the odd bit in the bathroom recently before tuning into something else 

"Private Passions" sounds like a must-hear.


----------



## trashpony (Dec 14, 2011)

Oh and I love the 100 Objects series - that was ace. As was that thing about a particular song after world at one which has probably died now WAO has been extended to 45 mins


----------



## nuffsaid (Dec 14, 2011)

I usually listen to the Today programme on my way in to work every morning. I can tell by where the train is at given points in the programme as to whether the train is running late or not. I like the grilling many guests get, but I find the thought of the day piece a bit condescending so i'm thankful I'm usually travelling through a tunnel for most of it so I miss it.

Great Lives was on Wittgenstein yesterday, superb, that's inspired me to read up more on him.


----------



## purenarcotic (Dec 14, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> "Private Passions" sounds like a must-hear.



It's on Sunday mornings, midday radio 3.  Upper-middle class hilarity at its best.  And it's all serious.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 14, 2011)

purves grundy said:


> I've been listening to the World Service for years on my little shortwave radio, and it's pretty dreadful now.



Always preferred World Service over R4, but it's programming has really declined over the years - and the latest round of cuts are going to hit it further


----------



## Ms T (Dec 14, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Oh and I love the 100 Objects series - that was ace. As was that thing about a particular song after world at one which has probably died now WAO has been extended to 45 mins



I caught one of those which was about the Wichita Lineman (still can't believe that some urbanites have never heard it before) and it was ace.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2011)

You And Yours is on at the moment and seems to be about overdraft rates, with phone-in questions, and that's pretty general interest. On the other hand, it _is_ often very much aimed at the Married Middle Aged Mortgage Holder With Savings Coming Closer To Pension Time audience.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 14, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You And Yours is on at the moment and seems to be about overdraft rates, with phone-in questions, and that's pretty general interest. On the other hand, it _is_ often very much aimed at the Married Middle Aged Mortgage Holder With Savings Coming Closer To Pension Time audience.


To be fair, it's twenty past three in the afternoon.


----------



## nogojones (Dec 14, 2011)

It's the only radio I listen to. If we had pirates down this way then there might be some competition - but there isn't.

The comedy's a bit hit or miss. The news quiz making up for some utter drivel. The Archers should be binned. Three fucking times we have to hear the same shit and as for the Moral Maze I prey for the painful death of Melanie Phillips and Claire Fox.


----------



## trashpony (Dec 14, 2011)

Ms T said:


> I caught one of those which was about the Wichita Lineman (still can't believe that some urbanites have never heard it before) and it was ace.


Wasn't it?


----------



## Ms T (Dec 14, 2011)

I love the Archers.  Although it's a bit boring at the moment.  And I was a bit worried about last night's development, which was encouraging listeners to go online to find out what Brian got up to on his holiday!


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## Picadilly Commando (Dec 14, 2011)

It's the best of the bunch and has some great documentaries. Mostly though it gets on my tits, there's a smug sanctimoniousnessity (is that a word?!) about some of it's listeners and shows that really grate me. Mainly the parts that remind me of "Aunty", "Mr Cholmondley-Warner", Alan Whicker and all the other shit best left in the past and forgotten about.

Radio 1 should be shot into space shortly after BBC Wales.


----------



## Reno (Dec 14, 2011)

I don't get this "smugness" people seem to complain about. 

I find Radio 4 educational, but education has become a dirty word in this country. Just learning something new doesn't make me feel like I'm being talked down to.


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## sojourner (Dec 14, 2011)

I listen to Today every morning - it's on my alarm, and on the radio in the kitchen.

I have a screaming fit if I have to listen to more than a nanosecond of the Archers theme tune.

All the plays are fucking laughably shit.

Just a Minute is BRILLIANT.

The shipping forecast is just awesome and still, after all this time, grips me - it's like some kind of weird and brilliant poetry.

What's that money programme? That makes me want to shove shit down torys throats.

Desert Island Discs can be interesting - Kathy Burke was THE star turn in the history of forever.


----------



## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

Reno said:


> I find Radio 4 educational, but education has become a dirty word in this country.


you can fuck off with that, too.


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## Reno (Dec 14, 2011)

Class war !!!!


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 14, 2011)

Reno said:


> I don't get this "smugness" people seem to complain about.


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## frogwoman (Dec 14, 2011)

sojourner said:


> I listen to Today every morning - it's on my alarm, and on the radio in the kitchen.
> 
> I have a screaming fit if I have to listen to more than a nanosecond of the Archers theme tune.
> 
> ...



when i'm getting lifts to sp meetings with my mate he turns the radio off as soon as he hears the word "the archers".


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## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

Reno said:


> Class war !!!!



if finding that the vast majority of voices you hear on r4 come from an upper/middle class, private & oxford educated background a bit tiresome is class war, then hand me a uzi. don't see much to laugh about there, tbh.


----------



## Meltingpot (Dec 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> when i'm getting lifts to sp meetings with my mate he turns the radio off as soon as he hears the word "the archers".



I do as well (or change channels). I used to listen to it on and off but I can't be arsed with it now.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 14, 2011)

eh? what the fuck happened to my vomit pic? 

Had to go back and edit in an alternative pavement pizza.


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## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

some websites (ratemyink for example) stop people from hotlinking to their content by putting an alternative pic up if someone tries to hotlink. dunno quite how it's done.


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## Andrew Hertford (Dec 14, 2011)

killer b said:


> if finding that the vast majority of voices you hear on r4 come from an upper/middle class, private & oxford educated background a bit tiresome is class war, then hand me a uzi. don't see much to laugh about there, tbh.


Inverted smuggery.


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## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

the fuck are you on about?


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

It's related to inverted snobbery. I had a boyfriend who was so prolier than thou he licked plates in restaurants because he was an inverted snob.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

I thought he was a knob, meself.


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

He didn't last long.


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## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

why is a desire to hear a wider range of people on radio 4 inverted snobbery? i don't get it.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2011)

killer b said:


> why is a desire to hear a wider range of people on radio 4 inverted snobbery? i don't get it.


It's not so much the range of people as the range of opinions and perspectives that that results in, for me - more to do with who runs it and commissions things than the voices you hear.

I don't mind it on Radio 3, even though that's screamingly upper-middle; it's a bloody classical music station after all.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

killer b said:


> why is a desire to hear a wider range of people on radio 4 inverted snobbery? i don't get it.


I think there is a wide range of voices on Radio 4 but you only notice the posh ones*. Also remember Ned Sherrin? Sounded like a right posho, but he was a working-class farmhand's son.

*I remember someone seeing a photo of my kid's primary school class and being horrified that "They're all black!". Actually less than a third were but all her horrified racist eyes saw were the black kids.


----------



## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

i don't remember ned sherrin, but according to the internet, he went to oxford. i guess that's where he picked up the accent (and the contacts to get him a job at the bbc).


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

So do you think it's a bad thing to go to Oxford or that it's somehow a class betrayal to get a good education?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

Charles Chilton. A great influence at the BBC and one of my Radio heroes.


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## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> So do you think it's a bad thing to go to Oxford or that it's somehow a class betrayal to get a good education?



not at all - my middle brother went to christchurch, and it's certainly given him many legs up over the years (including the occasional bit-part on r4 plays). but considering one of my contentions with r4 is it's overuse of public school & oxbridge educated people, perhaps he's a bad example to use of what a wide range of people there is on the station after all, if only i wasn't blind to them?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

Peter White.


----------



## StraightOuttaQ (Dec 14, 2011)

Discovered radio 4 when I moved into my own place a few years ago. Didn't have Television. still don't watch Television. You can turn it on at random and find something either fascinating, informative, or infuriating. The Podcast archives are huge and fascinating too, and well worth a trawl for interesting stuff.

The friday night comedy is a big smug sometimes,  as is the 'persona' comedy where its a sitcom ; such as 'Mr Blue Sky' (dreadful), or Arthur Smith, or the fake newscasts. Utterly pointless.

Even the slightest hint of the Archer's Theme tunes sends me into Murderous rage, like Mean Machine on 4. Seriously, If I hear The Archers, bad things happen. I loathe that pointless middleclass soap bollocks (like Eastenders for Telegraph readers) more than Phil Collins. And thats a quantity that can only be described in AU's.


----------



## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Charles Chilton. A great influence at the BBC and one of my Radio heroes.


he sounds like a dude, tbf.


----------



## xenon (Dec 14, 2011)

Always listened to it, few minutes a day at least. Thought For the Day makes me want to reach into the radio and smash and smash. The Today program has been agrovating for the last 3 years. A lot of the programs actually are painfully proffessionly media middle class in perspective. The ones where presenters on topical issues seem to make asumptions or only just begin to question things that have been painfully obvious to anyone outside their narrow social strata for years. Of course as to be expected, they're very much establishment and  conservative (small c) with regards politics. Save the Jeremy Hardies. Some of the afternoon plays, again, particularly those that try to deal with contempory issues, are embarrassing. As are some of the sitcoms.

But taken as a single enterty, there's nothing else that has the variety of informative, entertaining and funny programs.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

Also, every long-term prisoner I have known really rates Radio 4. OK, that's been through contact with wrongfully convicted prisoners, so maybe the guilty ones don't like Radio 4. Raph Rowe (Panorama) one of the M25 Three, started off on Radio 4 after his release.


----------



## trashpony (Dec 14, 2011)

killer b said:


> not at all - my middle brother went to christchurch, and it's certainly given him many legs up over the years (including the occasional bit-part on r4 plays). but considering one of my contentions with r4 is it's overuse of public school & oxbridge educated people, perhaps he's a bad example to use of what a wide range of people there is on the station after all, if only i wasn't blind to them?



A lot of people change their accent when they become 'educated' it seems which is a real shame.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

...because Raph Rowe was outside having a ciggie and one of the Today programme producers was outside have a ciggie too and they got talking.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

trashpony said:


> A lot of people change their accent when they become 'educated' it seems which is a real shame.


A lot of people change their accent unconsciously depending on the people they are with. My intonation (not accent though) changed when living in a houseful of Irish people. I didn't notice it but others did.


----------



## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

trashpony said:


> A lot of people change their accent when they become 'educated' it seems which is a real shame.


i don't think anyone does it on purpose - people's accents change with their surroundings, so if you're surrounded by posh buggers for a few years it's fairly inevitable. it soon changes back once you return to the fleshpits of the grim north...


----------



## purenarcotic (Dec 14, 2011)

Mrs Magpie makes a v true point: my mum has her 'phone voice' which is so put on and sounds nothing like her in reality.  I've slipped into a lot of brummieisms but still retain my suburban London accent on the whole.

I appreciate what people are saying about Radio 4 not necessarily relating to the population as a whole because of their still somewhat 'clipped' BBC accents, but that's a BBC problem all over, not R4 specific.  I've yet to see the six o'clock headlines read out by somebody in full cockney style but that doesn't mean the news is only for the upper classes, or not important.

The substance of something is surely more important than the delivery.


----------



## Corax (Dec 14, 2011)

I love R4, except for Desert Island Discs, especially the science programmes.  I know all sorts of random shit about stuff because I have it on during my walk to work and back.

Bollocks to any class politics, it's interesting and entertaining.


----------



## wayward bob (Dec 14, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Also, every long-term prisoner I have known really rates Radio 4. OK, that's been through contact with wrongfully convicted prisoners, so maybe the guilty ones don't like Radio 4.


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 14, 2011)

It's no 5live


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 14, 2011)

An Oxbridge education is a passport to the establishment - senior civil service, much of the arts, the BBC and the rest of the media, politics etc. People from non-privilliged backgrounds get through, but they are a tiny percentage - and they often 'go native' very quickly.

Funnily enough I was just listening to a prog on radio 4 where this writer was talking about his time at a rough as fuck school in leeds - a school I know well from work and one that several of my mates went to. He even related an anecdote about a kid failing to jump a polluted beck  - a variation of which a mate of mine had already told me years before.

See - you can do it radio 4! Just very fucking rarely.


----------



## Corax (Dec 14, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> A lot of people change their accent unconsciously depending on the people they are with. My intonation (not accent though) changed when living in a houseful of Irish people. I didn't notice it but others did.


It's a valuable communication skill IMO.  I vary my vocabulary and enunciation depending on whether I'm speaking to doctors, nurses, a&c staff, shop assistants, family, friends, strangers etc.  It's not "faking" anything.  People understand what you're saying better if you speak in a way that they're familiar with.  They also see you as one of their own more readily, empathise more.


----------



## stethoscope (Dec 14, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Also, every long-term prisoner I have known really rates Radio 4. OK, that's been through contact with wrongfully convicted prisoners, so maybe the guilty ones don't like Radio 4.



They all listen to pirate radio stations when they get put inside, and by the time they come out they're fans of Radio 4


----------



## killer b (Dec 14, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> I appreciate what people are saying about Radio 4 not necessarily relating to the population as a whole because of their still somewhat 'clipped' BBC accents


that isn't what people are saying tbf.


----------



## purenarcotic (Dec 14, 2011)

killer b said:


> that isn't what people are saying tbf.



It has been implied by some but no, fair point, that isn't the main issue.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2011)

Mind you, five minutes going around the FM dial when I get pissed off with R4 quickly has me going right back. Or, alternatively, turning the radio off and putting some music on instead.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 14, 2011)

Its run by an oxbridge clique who see the world from their perspective - smug, comfortable, affluent and patronising. The accent is nothing to do with it other then it being a signifier of their background.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 14, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> I'll never learn to like Alice Roberts - even if she sorted her weird accent ...


What "weird accent"? 



trashpony said:


> Oh and I love the 100 Objects series - that was ace.


You can get a booklet at the Museum so you can find the 100 objects there. 

They're doing a follow up to that this year. This time a history of Shakespeare's world in 20 objects.



Mrs Magpie said:


> Charles Chilton. A great influence at the BBC and one of my Radio heroes.


They have had his stuff on Radio 4 Extra/Radio 7!


----------



## xenon (Dec 14, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> It has been implied by some but no, fair point, that isn't the main issue.



It's not their accents. It's more or less what Kaka Tim's been saying. This doesn't just go for the BBC of course. But the section of society that gets to work in the media and therefore reflect back at society, is drawn from a laughably narrow elite. It's when it comes to topical or political items that this most bothers me. Well and Thought for the Day which is just lazy condescending pish.

I'm a BBC fan BTW. I don't care enough about any other media organisation to be bothered by the specifics. Mainstream commercial radio is mostly hellish brain rot. Even if you like the music or chat, the constant jingles, idents and intrusive adverts make it so.


----------



## kittyP (Dec 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> It's a valuable communication skill IMO. I vary my vocabulary and enunciation depending on whether I'm speaking to doctors, nurses, a&c staff, shop assistants, family, friends, strangers etc. It's not "faking" anything. People understand what you're saying better if you speak in a way that they're familiar with. They also see you as one of their own more readily, empathise more.



Aye!

People sometimes think I am taking the piss or as you said 'faking' but the way I speak naturally (for me) massively changes depending on who I am talking to and I am happy with it.

I guess a background of acting and then working with Autistic kids has had some affect on this


----------



## kittyP (Dec 14, 2011)

Back on topic.

Use to listen to Radio 4 all the time.
Now only for a fix of the shipping forecast and the rest of the time its Radio 4 Extra on digital if I am feeling that way inclined.


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## Captain Hurrah (Dec 14, 2011)

Reno said:


> I don't get this "smugness" people seem to complain about.
> 
> I find Radio 4 educational, but education has become a dirty word in this country. Just learning something new doesn't make me feel like I'm being talked down to.



I know. There are so many wilfully ignorant people out there who don't have an intellectual life at all. Only middle class people from narrow, privileged backgrounds with connections, and the people that listen to them on a radio station because of those connections do.


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## frogwoman (Dec 14, 2011)

i have to say tho sorry i havengt a clue is fuckin hilarious, maybe that's just me though. tho i agree about the smugness, its like going into a parallel world on there at times,


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## kittyP (Dec 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> i have to say tho sorry i havengt a clue is fuckin hilarious, maybe that's just me though. tho i agree about the smugness, its like going into a parallel world on there at times,



It's not smug, it's just been around for a bloody long time and kinda cultish.
They rely on in jokes because that's part of the deal.
If you want something that you can feel a part of straight away watch Live at the Apollo 

For those kinda programmes I use the iplayer rather than listening live.


----------



## danski (Dec 14, 2011)

Only tend to listen in the day and enjoy a fair amount of the schedule but I do get some odd looks working on a building site


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## Mrs Magpie (Dec 14, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> What "weird accent"?


Slightly Bristolian is what I hear, which isn't weird. She must be a posh bint though because she doesn't say agendal instead of agenda.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 14, 2011)

kittyP said:


> It's not smug, it's just been around for a bloody long time and kinda cultish.
> They rely on in jokes because that's part of the deal.
> If you want something that you can feel a part of straight away watch Live at the Apollo
> 
> For those kinda programmes I use the iplayer rather than listening live.



i wasnt talking about that programme (its one of the less smug things on it) but the radio4 in general


----------



## kittyP (Dec 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> i wasnt talking about that programme (its one of the less smug things on it) but the radio4 in general



Ah ok. Then yes I agree


----------



## Corax (Dec 14, 2011)

kittyP said:


> Aye!
> 
> People sometimes think I am taking the piss or as you said 'faking' but the way I speak naturally (for me) massively changes depending on who I am talking to and I am happy with it.
> 
> I guess a background of acting and then working with Autistic kids has had some affect on this


Huge amounts of acting too, up until 18. It's what I wanted to do in life, but was persuaded to get something 'safe' under my belt.

Ignoring for a minute the absurdity of taking a sample size of two as significant, and assuming it is - I wonder if acting makes you more comfortable with varying your speech, or if the type of person who varies their speech is drawn too/good at acting? Chicken and egg question.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 14, 2011)

there was one doc recrently on radio 4 which was just plain shit. well the last part of it was shit and it spoiked the other two parts.


----------



## kittyP (Dec 14, 2011)

Corax said:


> Huge amounts of acting too, up until 18. It's what I wanted to do in life, but was persuaded to get something 'safe' under my belt.
> 
> Ignoring for a minute the absurdity of taking a sample size of two as significant, and assuming it is - I wonder if acting makes you more comfortable with varying your speech, or if the type of person who varies their speech is drawn too/good at acting? Chicken and egg question.



Well, again just blindly hypothesising, the boy does a lot of sales work for his job which is just another kind of acting really and he is the same with the ability to massively adapt how he speaks.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 14, 2011)

I quite like Radio 4. I particularly like Farming Today. I listen to it around bedtime in Los Angeles. But I prefer different stuff at different times. Radio 4 fills a void when I'm cooking, or reading a book or being still for a bit. If there's football I want to listen to, I'll go over to 5 Live. For any other daytime stuff I go to LBC. If James Whale or someone equally annoying is on that then I'll go to pirate stations. Radio 1 and 6 still have the best specialist music shows so they get equal listening time. Bam Bam at breakfast is quite good if I just want a bit of MOR rock and comedy banter. But he's had to tone down since getting fired from Kiss and Capital and losing streetboy. In the States I listen to KCRW which has a good music show weekday mornings 9-12.

To be honest I couldn't stay loyal to any station. There's too many good ones with quality stuff on at different times.


----------



## xenon (Dec 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> i have to say tho sorry i havengt a clue is fuckin hilarious, maybe that's just me though. tho i agree about the smugness, its like going into a parallel world on there at times,



No, I like that to. Despite what it might look like, I do like a lot of their output.

e2a. Ah just seen your reply.


----------



## Reno (Dec 14, 2011)

Captain Hurrah said:


> I know. There are so many wilfully ignorant people out there who don't have an intellectual life at all. Only middle class people from narrow, privileged backgrounds with connections, and the people that listen to them on a radio station because of those connections do.



How does this relate to how I said I relate to Radio 4. I come from what you would consider a working class background, though as I'm not British I don't define myself by class and never felt held back by my background. I said I fInd Radio 4 educational. I said that because I missed out on a lot of education due to the shitty medieval style Catholic school I went to where the teachers beat the lessons into us with their fists. I ended up educating myself throughout my life from whatever sources I could find. Somehow I'm quite happy to learn stuff from those narrow minded middle class people on the radio you seem to find so odious. The British capacity for whining about the great stuff they have at their disposal never ceases to amaze me. Check out national radio in other European countries. It's utter shit. Unfortunately the rest of British media is going the same way now. The quality of UK TV has dropped drastically over the last couple of decades. Maybe you want to make a good case for how X-Factor shows young working class people a viable alternative to education.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Dec 15, 2011)

Reno said:


> How does this relate to how I said I relate to Radio 4. I come from what you would consider a working class background, though as I'm not British I don't define myself by class and never felt held back by my background. I said I fInd Radio 4 educational. I said that because I missed out on a lot of education due to the shitty medieval style Catholic school I went to where the teachers beat the lessons into us with their fists. I ended up educating myself throughout my life from whatever sources I could find. Somehow I'm quite happy to learn stuff from those narrow minded middle class people on the radio you seem to find so odious. The British capacity for whining about the great stuff they have at their disposal never ceases to amaze me. Check out national radio in other European countries. It's utter shit. Unfortunately the rest of British media is going the same way now. The quality of UK TV has dropped drastically over the last couple of decades. Maybe you want to make a good case for how X-Factor shows young working class people a viable alternative to education.


It's refreshing to read an opinion from someone who's free of the British paranoia and obsession with class.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)

Reno said:


> How does this relate to how I said I relate to Radio 4. I come from what you would consider a working class background, though as I'm not British I don't define myself by class and never felt held back by my background. I said I fInd Radio 4 educational. I said that because I missed out on a lot of education due to the shitty medieval style Catholic school I went to where the teachers beat the lessons into us with their fists. I ended up educating myself throughout my life from whatever sources I could find. Somehow I'm quite happy to learn stuff from those narrow minded middle class people on the radio you seem to find so odious. The British capacity for whining about the great stuff they have at their disposal never ceases to amaze me. Check out national radio in other European countries. It's utter shit. Unfortunately the rest of British media is going the same way now. The quality of UK TV has dropped drastically over the last couple of decades. Maybe you want to make a good case for how X-Factor shows young working class people a viable alternative to education.



You said that education is a dirty word in this country. It most certainly has never been a dirty word in my working class family. And we rarely listen to Radio 4. Questioning class inequalities, the transmission of privilege, with yet again someone else who went to the same school and university talking at me across the airwaves, or on the television, or in print, or the internet, does not mean chippiness and anti-intellectualism. I fucking resent that.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)

Reno said:


> Maybe you want to make a good case for how X-Factor shows young working class people a viable alternative to education.



That's what happens when working class people don't listen to Radio 4.  You utter fucking cock.


----------



## Reno (Dec 15, 2011)

Captain Hurrah said:


> You said that education is a dirty word in this country. It most certainly has never been a dirty word in my working class family. And we rarely listen to Radio 4. Questioning class inequalities, the transmission of privilege, with yet again someone else who went to the the same schools and universities talking at me across the airwaves, or on the television, or in print, or the internet, does not mean chippiness and anti-intellectualism. I fucking resent that.



I never said education is a dirty word for working class people, I actually think it has become so for many middle class people who fool themselves into buying into trash culture ironically, but who are merely lazy. It takes people from both sides to keep up a class system and if you look at yourself forever as some oppressed victim, then you are doing your part of keeping it going. I don't think it was Radio 4 presenters who hiked up University fees, BTW.


----------



## Reno (Dec 15, 2011)

Captain Hurrah said:


> That's what happens when working class people don't listen to Radio 4. You utter fucking cock.



That is what happens when our culture goes to shit. Ask those who work in education what many young people's aspirations are today.


----------



## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)

Reno said:


> I never said education is a dirty word for working class people, I actually think it has become so for many middle class people who fool themselves into buying into trash culture ironically, but who are merely lazy. It takes people from both sides to keep up a class system and if you look at yourself forever as some oppressed victim, then you are doing your part of keeping it going. I don't think it was Radio 4 presenters who hiked up University fees, BTW.



You said it was a dirty word in general, and you were the one who first brought your working class background into it, iirc. I never mentioned working class people and their cultural, intellectual tastes (or lack thereof because they don't listen to Radio 4) specifically, until responding to your post. And I didn't start this 'class war.'


----------



## Reno (Dec 15, 2011)

Captain Hurrah said:


> You said it was a dirty word in general, and you were the one who first brought your working class background into it, iirc. I never mentioned working class people and their cultural, intellectual tastes (or lack thereof because they don't listen to Radio 4) specifically, until responding to your post. And I didn't start this 'class war.'



I said "class war" as a joke, because I've been here long enough to know where any Radio 4 thread ends up going. Lighten up FFS.


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## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)

Reno said:


> That is what happens when our culture goes to shit. Ask those who work in education what many young people's aspirations are today.


 
Paint me a picture, with big, broad brush strokes.


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## Reno (Dec 15, 2011)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Paint me a picture, with big, broad brush strokes.



No, I'm bored with you. Im off to bed.


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## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)

Don't let the bedbugs bite.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 15, 2011)

Reno said:


> It takes people from both sides to keep up a class system and if you look at yourself forever as some oppressed victim, then you are doing your part of keeping it going.



So centuries of instiutionalised, entrenched wealth power and privillage can be just wished away? Its partly the 'fault' of the those without power,wealth and privallage? If we just stoped beliveing that  5% of the population own the vast majority of the wealth it would no longer be true?

To get back on topic - I listen to radio 4 because I like informative, intelligent and thought provoking radio and Im not going to get it anywhere else - thats why I find it infuriating that the station provides this overwhelmingly in a form that reflects the interests, concerns and pespective of those  who are afflulent and educated - thereby excluding everybody else.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 15, 2011)

There are lots of things to get exasperated about with r4. You and fucking yours is top of the list, but Today is mostly horrible and the dramas are almost universally execrable (Radio 3 on Sunday evenings is the place for great radio drama).

But I actually think that given the demographic of its listenership (average age over 60, I believe), it does remarkably well. There are plenty of left-wing comics like Jeremy Hardy or Mark Steel who get lots of airtime and don't get a look in anywhere on tv. And some of the classics are still fantastic. I'm delighted that ISIHAC is still as brilliant as it always was. Instead of Humph reading Cryer and Garden's lines, it has Jack Dee, and Dee is very good at it. The audience trying to hum the Bond theme tune after Colin Sell had completely thrown them with a totally inappropriate intro this week had me uncontrollably laughing. That's really rare, and I do treasure moments like that.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 15, 2011)

Part of the problem is Radio 4's domination by an  elderly, affluent listnership who are hugely infuential and will raise an abslolute shit storm if radio 4 strays too far from its Mr Chumbley Warner ways.

They dont like the oiks invading their little corner of the air waves.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 15, 2011)

I think there is a mixture of Chumbley Warner (thought for the day, ffs) and genuinely good, intellectually honest stuff. I understand that Melvyn Bragg rubs people up the wrong way, but In our time strikes me as an honest attempt to present ideas to people, even though I think there's too much religion in it. And the likes of Laurie Taylor also try to honestly present the latest thinking in their fields.

There's a lot to dislike, but also a lot to like, imo. For me its biggest shortcoming is the various news programmes. In that respect, World Service is far better (ironically, given that WS is a genuinely government organ). I also find its arts programmes, such as Front Row, horribly mainstream, promoting the things that the big distributors or publishers would like them to promote. Again, in this respect, Radio 3 is better, with its Night Waves programme, which can also be annoying, but some of a station's output is bound to be annoying really. If you like half of what they do, that's pretty good, I think.


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## little_legs (Dec 15, 2011)

I like _More or Less_ and _In Our Time. _Occasionally, even Front Row pulls out good interviews. Their Umberto Eco special from a few weeks ago will be on my ipod for a bit.


killer b said:


> why is a desire to hear a wider range of people on radio 4 inverted snobbery? i don't get it.


I think you make a fair point. Some of R4's presenters sound like tenured professors to me whose formed opinions are recycled into documentaries, discussions, interviews, etc. I always ask myself, have they ran out of intelligent, interesting people with different backgrounds/experiences? Do we have to listen to pathetic Michael Portillo and boring Mariella Frostrup on the _Moral Maze_ and _Open Book_ respectively and on a shit load of other R4 programs? Do we have to hear the opinions of exact same self-absorbed people who disregard the 'spoiler' rule on every fucking _Saturday Review_? Isn't that the point of intelligent radio, bringing in as many intelligent people as possible instead of relying on a small number of people to regurgitate their views?


FridgeMagnet said:


> It's not so much the range of people as the range of opinions and perspectives that that results in, for me - more to do with who runs it and commissions things than the voices you hear.
> 
> I don't mind it on Radio 3, even though that's screamingly upper-middle; it's a bloody classical music station after all.


Agreed. That's why when they brought Will Self and Mary Beard, also R4 darlings I know, to do a couple of _A Point of View's_ this year, it was a relief.

Radio 3 is actually .


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 15, 2011)

.


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## sojourner (Dec 15, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> when i'm getting lifts to sp meetings with my mate he turns the radio off as soon as he hears the word "the archers".


Weird innit?  I don't get panicky, but I go into fucking overdrive when I hear the opening bars...'GET THAT FUCKING SHIT OFFFFF NOWWWW' and fumble for the button


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## sojourner (Dec 15, 2011)

StraightOuttaQ said:


> I loathe that pointless middleclass soap bollocks (like Eastenders for Telegraph readers) more than Phil Collins. And thats a quantity that can only be described in AU's.


  fucking class man - shaking your hand


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## Reno (Dec 15, 2011)

sojourner said:


> Weird innit? I don't get panicky, but I go into fucking overdrive when I hear the opening bars...'GET THAT FUCKING SHIT OFFFFF NOWWWW' and fumble for the button



Me too. The only time that tune gave me any joy was in Peter Jackson's Braindead where it provides the soundtrack to an extremely gory decapitation.


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## xenon (Dec 15, 2011)

Reno said:


> I never said education is a dirty word for working class people, I actually think it has become so for many middle class people who fool themselves into buying into trash culture ironically, but who are merely lazy. It takes people from both sides to keep up a class system and if you look at yourself forever as some oppressed victim, then you are doing your part of keeping it going. I don't think it was Radio 4 presenters who hiked up University fees, BTW.



It's not about wo is me. There's a link between an Oxbridge dominated media and the discourse that arises from such a narrow group. The hiking up of university fees. That the entrenched privledged elite is being further sured up by such measures. Which means access to the media, well paid and or influencial jobs. Positions as decision makers. These are being further closed out to working class peple and well, most middle class peple now. It's not good for a supposed modern liberal democracy.


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## fredfelt (Dec 15, 2011)

xenon said:


> It's not about wo is me. There's a link between an Oxbridge dominated media and the discourse that arises from such a narrow group. The hiking up of university fees. That the entrenched privledged elite is being further sured up by such measures. Which means access to the media, well paid and or influencial jobs. Positions as decision makers. These are being further closed out to working class peple and well, most middle class peple now. It's not good for a supposed modern liberal democracy.



Are you suggesting we need some sort of class based quota for recruitment into media jobs - only working class need apply?


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## Captain Hurrah (Dec 15, 2011)




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## Reno (Dec 15, 2011)

xenon said:


> It's not about wo is me. There's a link between an Oxbridge dominated media and the discourse that arises from such a narrow group. The hiking up of university fees. That the entrenched privledged elite is being further sured up by such measures. Which means access to the media, well paid and or influencial jobs. Positions as decision makers. These are being further closed out to working class peple and well, most middle class peple now. It's not good for a supposed modern liberal democracy.



I agree with a lot of that. It's quite an incestuous culture. I often do work for the BBC as a freelancer (and I have dated at least 3 people who worked for the BBC, its full of gays) so I've seen it myself. That said, there is no reason why you can't get ahead in the BBC if you are genuinley talented and working class. For me that's still different from the pleasure I take in Radio 4, which overall simply is a great radio station. I get irritated with the BBC as an institution (they can be horrible to deal with on a professional level), but Radio 4 and 6 are the best things they do and they are better than anything of it's kind I've come across anywhere else in the world and I've lived in quite a few places. I also simply love radio. I watch very little telly, but the radio is on all day and I never listen to music stations anymore, because I prefer information in my twilight years.


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## fredfelt (Dec 15, 2011)

okay - I made a tongue in cheek comment. I (mis)read xenon's post as a general criticism levelled against people who happen to be at the top of their game - as if having an influential job somehow automatically makes you part of the problem with (lack of) social mobility.


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## trashpony (Dec 15, 2011)

This is an interesting discussion because on the one hand, you get people complaining that R4 gives too much space and airtime to up and coming playwrights/dramatists and then, on the other, moaning that it is too elitist. 

There is something I will always love about it - it's always been in my life and it is like the smell of my gran's house to me - there is something about the familiarity of it that makes me feel warm and safe.

It pushes radio in a lot of ways - that music programme I mentioned earlier was completely brilliant, Jarvis Cocker, Marc Riley and Richard Hawley going whale watching was fab, some of the drama is actually really fucking great and isihac is genius anarchic comedy which you would never get away with on telly. Plus Yotam Ottalenghi was on WH today with his baba ganoush recipe


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 15, 2011)

trashpony said:


> people complaining that R4 gives too much space and airtime to up and coming playwrights/dramatists



Has anybody said this?


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## trashpony (Dec 15, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Has anybody said this?


They might not have done on this thread - I really can't be arsed to trawl through but I thought someone did. A lot of people did on a previous one though.

I'm far too lazy to link though - you'll have to do your own research darling


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## gentlegreen (Dec 15, 2011)

I wish I knew why they keep scraping the barrel of the radio 4 archives for 4extra - there was an appalling thing earlier - I assumed it was off radio 2 - amazed it was as recent as '99 ..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00b5pg3#synopsis
It had Roy Hudd and June Whitfield in it - I expected more of Chris Emmett ....

Radio 4 seemed moderately sophisticated back in the 70s, in retrospect it seems pretty middlebrow now - though Radio 2 always took it further downmarket ...

Don't really remember much "Cholmondley-Warner" type stuff ... but I wish I could find that interview with Barbara Castle they dug up recently about drink-driving - that was mind-boggling.


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## killer b (Dec 15, 2011)

nobody has. regardless of the quality of the plays, i'm glad they happen (i'm just never going to listen to them)


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## Meltingpot (Dec 15, 2011)

trashpony said:


> They might not have done on this thread - I really can't be arsed to trawl through but I thought someone did. A lot of people did on a previous one though.



The actors in Radio 4 plays are pretty much always excellent though. Part of the reason is, I guess, that radio plays take a lot less time to do than TV or film so it's easier to get good stage actors to take a break from their shows to do one.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 15, 2011)

Meltingpot said:


> The actors in Radio 4 plays are pretty much always excellent though. Part of the reason is, I guess, that radio plays take a lot less time to do than TV or film so it's easier to get good stage actors to take a break from their shows to do one.


Well, they do re-use them a lot. I also find it rather irritating that they basically seem to have one woman who plays Every Eastern European Woman Ever (usually au pairs with the odd illegal immigrant) and one bloke who plays Every African Man Ever.


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## Reno (Dec 15, 2011)

I rarely listen to the plays, but I really liked their two part dramatisation of Solaris. Very atmospheric.

I also forgot to mention that I really like The Film Programme. Francine Stock is a good interviewer and she knows her stuff (her interviews with Lars Von Trier were especially entertaininig). I wished they'd let her review films more then one sentence at the end of an item, because I always like her judgement. So much better than Mark Kermode, but then this show isn't about someones massive ego-trip.


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## Dr Dolittle (Dec 15, 2011)

When I listen to the radio (which I do just about every day), it's usually Radio 4, unless I want music, in which case I'll have Radio 2. I wake up to the Today programme, listening for the papers review around 7.45, followed by _Thought for the Day_, which is sometimes interesting, sometimes just inane. The worst parts of the programme are the heavy debate with the politician after eight, and the sports sections on the half hour - especially if there's a clip of a football commentary. Far too early in the morning for that.

The Friday night comedies, _The News Quiz_ and _The Now Show_ I never miss - they're the alternative take on the news, and all those people who are saying it is "smug" I think have a problem that they should sort out. The other comedies I rarely bother with, except sometimes _Just a Minute_ and _ISIHAC._ _A Point of View_  can be very interesting - I usually listen to it just before _Broadcasting House_ as I always forget about it on Friday night. But _Broadcasting House_ can be really crap sometimes - too much mucking about.

The miscellaneous Saturday morning programme at 10.30 is usually boring but occasionally worth listening to, especially Steve Punt's annual series about historic mysteries, _Punt P I_, though the presentation is very corny. _Saturday Live _is sometimes good, sometimes soppy - the inheritance tracks part is boring. _The Archers_ (like all soaps) I avoid more than anything else. And I'm quite happy that _What the Papers Say_ has been moved here from BBC2 - it works just as well on radio.

I grew up in a Radio 1 / Capital household, and started exploring the rest of the radio world when I was in my mid-twenties. Can't remember when I started listening to R4 regularly, but I'll probably stay with it for life. It's one of the best things about Britain - radio that's genuinely intelligent (if not always) and informative. And I don't care that it's middle class. It's public service broadcasting FFS - what do you expect? 'Working class' radio would probably be the radio equivalent of Facebook - I'm told most American radio is like that.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 16, 2011)

Meltingpot said:


> The actors in Radio 4 plays are pretty much always excellent though. Part of the reason is, I guess, that radio plays take a lot less time to do than TV or film so it's easier to get good stage actors to take a break from their shows to do one.



 Must be listening to a different radio 4 to me. They seem to have about 4 actors - anfd its excruciating when thet try and be 'common'.


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## Meltingpot (Dec 16, 2011)

A while back, Bob Hoskins  played an ordinary soldier called Lieutenant Pistol who gave his point of view of Agincourt. Wonderrful stuff.

But otherwise, maybe you're right and my info's a bit out of date. I haven't listened to any plays on 4 for a year or two.


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## kabbes (Dec 16, 2011)

Any Radio 4 actor attempting to play any character that isn't within the range of thoroughly English lower-middle to upper-middle class just sounds excruciatingly cringily bad.


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## oryx (Dec 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, they do re-use them a lot. I also find it rather irritating that they basically seem to have one woman who plays Every Eastern European Woman Ever (usually au pairs with the odd illegal immigrant) and one bloke who plays Every African Man Ever.



While completely agreeing with you, I think you've missed the woman that plays Every Cockerney Working Class Londoner Ever and Every Northern Working Class 'Lass' Ever. 

Who sounds like her natural accent is the modern variant on RP.


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## AKA pseudonym (Dec 16, 2011)

John Pilger is on Any Questions with Jonathan Dimbleby on Radio 4 at 8pm. Should be worth a listen.


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## Corax (Dec 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Any Radio 4 actor attempting to play any character that isn't within the range of thoroughly English lower-middle to upper-middle class just sounds excruciatingly cringily bad.


Balderdash.  I've heard plenty of convincing oiks on Radio Four's wireless programmes.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 16, 2011)

oryx said:


> While completely agreeing with you, I think you've missed the woman that plays Every Cockerney Working Class Londoner Ever and Every Northern Working Class 'Lass' Ever.
> 
> Who sounds like her natural accent is the modern variant on RP.


Oh god, they had the worst ever accent today in some comic play this afternoon. It was supposed to be a sexy male American gospel choir leader, and whoever it was tried to put a deep Southern-ish accent which was so bad that I really couldn't just let the whole thing wash into the background like I would normally, and had to turn it off. And put on R3.


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## wayward bob (Dec 27, 2011)

they just had one of those totally random off the wall programmes that i love: yeti's finger. will post a link when available


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## Greebo (Dec 27, 2011)

wayward bob said:


> they just had one of those totally random off the wall programmes that i love: yeti's finger. will post a link when available


Caught it - just as well this is a bank holiday or I'd  have missed it.  

 IMHO brilliantly put together with just enough tension.  Was the yeti's finger genuine or a fake?  You'll just have to listen.


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## wayward bob (Dec 27, 2011)

link


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## wayward bob (Dec 31, 2011)

does anyone else enjoy spotting actors from the archers in other parts?  i have a pretty good ear for voices, from listening from such an early age, i reckon. i'm sure i spotted tom in the afternoon play today, and roy tucker in tale of two cities


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## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2011)

Radio 4 is like listening to people from some variant-timeline england. Who are these people, that talk like that? Where do they come from, and why are they on the radiobox?

they were doing this daily potted history of russia earlier in the year that I tuned in to. That was quite good


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## wayward bob (Dec 31, 2011)

i was wrong it wasn't roy tucker


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## AKA pseudonym (Dec 31, 2011)

tbh: i was a sceptic until recently....
I have learnt so much in the last week or so by tuning in..... still cant get the Archers buzz tho 
I cried a few days ago listening to a 'citizen journalist' telling the reality from Syria....


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## xenon (Dec 31, 2011)

The News Quiz pantomime was quite funny. The opinion piece afterwards, 1245 today, was knawsiating pro roylaist, swooning bilge. Can't have it all I spose.


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## xenon (Dec 31, 2011)

I've been using the In Our Time archive a lot lately. Forgot it only used to be a half hour program back in the 90's.


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## wayward bob (Dec 31, 2011)

news quiz panto was shite


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## wayward bob (Dec 31, 2011)

in our time special on printed word all next week


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## xenon (Dec 31, 2011)

It was alright really, for that genre of light entertainment stuff. Lot of in jokes for the regulars. I did LOL couple of times. So, job done.


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## youngian (May 22, 2012)

Not being Oxbridge or anywhere else I have no chippy resentment of people from top universities sharing their knowledge science, economics, history etc with me. As someone who did crap at school but a good aural learner I  have a lot to thank Radio 4 for.  Better than a day with LBC and Fivelive's procession of dickhead callers who haven't the faintest idea what they're talking about (and I have been one of them so I should know).


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## Mumbles274 (Jan 19, 2014)

is this the only r4 thread? have been listening to the infinite monkey cage, all episodes still available on on beeb website. top stuff

but in a wider context.. where are urbs discussing r4? is this it? i found this thread with a search but if there is a better home for r4 discussion please direct me!


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## Greebo (Jan 19, 2014)

Mumbles274 said:


> <snip> but in a wider context.. where are urbs discussing r4? is this it? i found this thread with a search but if there is a better home for r4 discussion please direct me!


There's also the wireless watch thread and the archers thread.


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## gentlegreen (Jan 19, 2014)

There's a general wireless thread :-

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-your-radio-recommendations-here.22176/page-8

My Netvibes start page also has "best of Natural History", "More or Less", and "Thinking Allowed"


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## gentlegreen (Jan 19, 2014)

Also "Inside Science", "Frontiers", "Word of Mouth", and "Dr Karl and the Naked Scientists"

Science programmes are my standard insomniac listening in the early hours via my phone off my WIFI.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/inscience/rss.xml
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/fivelive/drkarl/rss.xml
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/frontiers/rss.xml
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/nathistory/rss.xml
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/timc/rss.xml
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fricomedy/rss.xml
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/ta/rss.xml
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/moreorless/rss.xml
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/wom/rss.xml


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## Corax (Jan 20, 2014)

gentlegreen said:


> Also "Inside Science", "Frontiers", "Word of Mouth", and "Dr Karl and the Naked Scientists"
> 
> Science programmes are my standard insomniac listening in the early hours via my phone off my WIFI.
> 
> ...


Back episodes of More or Less are my current addiction


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## SovietArmy (Jan 21, 2014)

I think Radio 4 still on the good track, but have a look Radio 3 good as well, dramas, there are good art section, good music. Yes Radio 3 and 4 good.


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## Saint Sebastian (Apr 12, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> No it s not just you - that is exactly my experience.


A friend once described R4 as "aural wallpaper for the middle. class " while redecorating his living room.  Let's see...A History of Ideas is a row of those cardboard fake hardback books you see on the IKEA shelves.  Shula Hebden and everyone (except Susan  Carter) in the Archers - an old soup stain you take great pleasure in emulsioning out of existence.Carter needs th


fredfelt said:


> I'm not sure of your complaints are entirely justified.
> 
> The last times I heard 'Money Box' the features were 'Are overdraft charges too high' and 'Managing borrowing and debt'.
> 
> ...


Aural wallpaper  for the middle classes.


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## Saint Sebastian (Apr 12, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Always turn it on - and then often turn it off in disgust.
> 
> Most of the comedy and drama is utterly fucking dire - smug, middle class, vapid bollocks.
> 
> ...


For someone with such strongly negative views you must put in a fair few hours a day (as I Do) But I'm overseas & the Spanish equivalent of R4, Nacional, just doesn't compare.  No drama.  No incisive comment.  V. Little arts programming.  A morning news prog punctuated by annoying jingles every 2 minuses.  We're well served. spite of my earlier comments.  I stand by what I said about Susan Carter however.


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## fredfelt (Apr 12, 2015)

Saint Sebastian said:


> ...Aural wallpaper  for the middle classes.



Fair enough.  I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though.

Radio 4 is often 'wallpaper' - however sometimes there are programs that really grab my attention.  For example I've been engaged by a few pod casts from 'A point of view' and as a result looked deeper into the subject / presenter.

I find that when the subject matter is of interest, the radio engages in ways that the TV doesn't.


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