# Dr Who 2021



## danny la rouge (Jan 1, 2021)

We have an episode today, but there’s uncertainty about how much has been completed of the coming series due to bastard Covid or when we’ll get to see what there is to see. But still, a thread is required. And this is it.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2021)

ooo captain jack, thats unexpected.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 1, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> ooo captain jack, thats unexpected.


Well he was in the trailers, but yes, I’m pleased.

Although for an immortal he’s using more hair dye than you might expect.


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## CNT36 (Jan 1, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Well he was in the trailers, but yes, I’m pleased.
> 
> Although for an immortal he’s using more hair dye than you might expect.


He also time travels and ages. Could have been millennia since he killed the grandkid.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 1, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> He also time travels and ages. Could have been millennia since he killed the grandkid.


This is true. Thank you comrade.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 1, 2021)

Loved it. 👍


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## colacubes (Jan 1, 2021)

It was good. The only bad bit was the trailer after where they showed who the new sidekick is :/


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## Santino (Jan 1, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> This is true. Thank you comrade.


And eventually he turns into a giant face.


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## CNT36 (Jan 1, 2021)

colacubes said:


> It was good. The only bad bit was the trailer after where they showed who the new sidekick is :/


Doubly bad because of the brief moment he looked like Jim MacDonald from behind.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 1, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Well he was in the trailers, but yes, I’m pleased.
> 
> Although for an immortal he’s using more hair dye than you might expect.


He lives forever but his hair doesn't


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## ginger_syn (Jan 2, 2021)

I enjoyed the episode but will have to do a migraine free rewatch.


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## kalidarkone (Jan 2, 2021)

Meh. 
Its fine to have on as background. 
Of course the best bit were the daleks being in Bristol on Clifton suspension bridge. Although it would have been better if there were irate drivers being held up and perhaps a cyclist being exterminated.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 2, 2021)

There were some great lines.

“This is a terrible rescue”.


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## lazythursday (Jan 2, 2021)

If judged against the inglorious history of Dr Who winterval specials, I think it stands up quite well. I quite enjoyed it, apart from the long drawn out mawkish last ten minutes, when I was really expecting some sort of twist. Disappointed the spare Tardis was canned, I think that could have had much greater plot potential in the future, or it could have been given to poor old ageing Jack or something.


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## smokedout (Jan 4, 2021)

So hang on, some corporate bastard accidentally makes a load of murderous Daleks and the Doctors plan is to trick the actual Daleks into coming to sort it all out and then ruthlessly massacre them.  Isn't that just a little bit of a provocation?  I'm starting to think there might be two sides to this story (not for the first time).


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 4, 2021)

I missed the new companion bit. Who is it?


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 4, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I missed the new companion bit. Who is it?



John Bishop.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 4, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I missed the new companion bit. Who is it?


Sorry, I see now that that was an easy Google.


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## cupid_stunt (Jan 4, 2021)

I thought it was a bit slow for the first 15 or so minutes, but overall I enjoyed it - 9/10.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 4, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> John Bishop.


At first I thought it was great that it wasn't just another young girl fawning over the doctor, but then I remembered she is a girl now so am a bit worried.


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## D'wards (Jan 4, 2021)

Initial reports speculating Jodie will be leaving after this new series.
The whole rigmarole will start again.

I'd like to see Zawe Ashton on Paul Kaye in the role.  Paul with a bald head but long hair on back and sides


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 4, 2021)

The doctors have all been fine, it's the writing that is just utter utter shit. How is it allowed to happen? I watched the shit McGann film one the other day for larks. . . . Panned totally at the time and broke cannon with the 'half human' shit. . . . And yes it was still terrible, but no more so than modern who, (and actually better than many episodes).


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## danny la rouge (Jan 4, 2021)

If I was casting (and I officially request that I be appointed), I’d ask Lolly Adefope what her schedule was like. 

If she’s not available, then I’d ask Danny Pudi again.


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## D'wards (Jan 4, 2021)

Seems to be a bit of support for Julian Barrett and I think he'd be good but I suspect its not really his thing.

Although I thought the same with noel fielding and the bake off


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## Santino (Jan 4, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> If I was casting (and I officially request that I be appointed), I’d ask Lolly Adefope what her schedule was like.
> 
> If she’s not available, then I’d ask Danny Pudi again.


I love her in Ghosts and Alan Partridge but I don't know if she's got the acting chops. You really need a good actor to make the Doctor work.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 4, 2021)

Santino said:


> I love her in Ghosts and Alan Partridge but I don't know if she's got the acting chops. You really need a good actor to make the Doctor work.


If we are doing ghosts then I'd have Simon Farnaby, if we are doing comediennes then Sara Pascoe


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 4, 2021)

kalidarkone said:


> Meh.


This^^^



kalidarkone said:


> and perhaps a cyclist being exterminated.


Would have been nice, but I'd rather all of the shit actors were killed off instead, along with the writer.


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## cybershot (Jan 4, 2021)

Never did like Mr Big. (Sex in the city reference for actor who played tech billionaire)


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## CNT36 (Jan 6, 2021)

smokedout said:


> So hang on, some corporate bastard accidentally makes a load of murderous Daleks and the Doctors plan is to trick the actual Daleks into coming to sort it all out and then ruthlessly massacre them.  Isn't that just a little bit of a provocation?  I'm starting to think there might be two sides to this story (not for the first time).


What about that poor Tardis? Iirc she said a touching goodbye to the spare one last series. Cold blooded murder.


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## Saul Goodman (Jan 6, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> What about that poor Tardis? Iirc she said a touching goodbye to the spare one last series. Cold blooded murder.


It's easy to make a new one. It's only a few bits of wood.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 6, 2021)

Needed a "prevoiusly, on Doctor Who..." at the start. So much I'd forgotten and didn't even remember she was n jail.

It's very poor I think, I felt nothing watching it.


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## kittyP (Jan 6, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> John Bishop.



Oooohhhh noooooooo I fucking HATE John Bishop


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## Epona (Jan 6, 2021)

I've been saying it for years and still think that I would like to see Paterson Joseph playing The Doctor - I really think he would be great in the role.


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## CNT36 (Jan 7, 2021)

mwgdrwg said:


> Needed a "prevoiusly, on Doctor Who..." at the start. So much I'd forgotten and didn't even remember she was n jail.
> 
> It's very poor I think, I felt nothing watching it.


I felt the Doctor being in jail would have been a better episode and I felt disappointed she couldn't escape then was saved by magic.


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## CNT36 (Jan 7, 2021)

And I felt sad for that Tardis. One minute your promised eternity as a house the next your murdered by a bloodthirsty Time lord.


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## spanglechick (Jan 7, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> If I was casting (and I officially request that I be appointed), I’d ask Lolly Adefope what her schedule was like.
> 
> If she’s not available, then I’d ask Danny Pudi again.


Love both ideas.  I don’t think they’ll go straight to another woman, and she’s very young - though a positive and bouncy doctor would be interesting.  

Pudi is a bloody gorgeous thought, but he’s an American so it would never be accepted, and anyway, I suspect it’s just too, too meta.  

I think they’ll stay away from another older doctor after Capaldi was so badly received (fucking Moffat), but in future I could see someone Jennifer Saunders-y. I don’t think she’d do it but someone of that kind of generation. Miranda Richardson? 

This time I think it must be a BAME actor.  Patterson Joseph is an obvious choice.  I can totally imagine his take on it, too.  If Sacha Diwan wasn’t the current master, Himesh Patel would be an interesting call.  Not that it should matter but I can’t see them casting young south Asian actors in both roles.


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## mwgdrwg (Jan 8, 2021)

BTW, what did everyone think of the push?

Bit fucking off I thought, then she is a copper.


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## SpookyFrank (Jan 8, 2021)

mwgdrwg said:


> BTW, what did everyone think of the push?
> 
> Bit fucking off I thought, then she is a copper.



That was such a shit scene, no way they'd respond like that after waiting all those months to see her. Compare it to the time when Rose comes back and Mickey and her mum have been there waiting worried sick for ages. That was a proper human moment, written and acted accordingly, and not skipped over in a matter of seconds to get to the next thing.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 29, 2021)




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## Saul Goodman (Jul 29, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


>



Hopefully it's not too late to revive the show.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 29, 2021)

I’m not sorry to see Chibnall go, with his sledgehammer style, but I liked Whittaker.


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## Saul Goodman (Jul 29, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m not sorry to see Chibnall go, with his sledgehammer style, but I liked Whittaker.


It's a shame Chinballs isn't leaving a year earlier, so we could see if Whittaker would have made a good Doctor without his shit writing.


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## PursuedByBears (Jul 29, 2021)

Let's just hope that they haven't killed it completely between them.


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## CNT36 (Jul 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> It's a shame Chinballs isn't leaving a year earlier, so we could see if Whittaker would have made a good Doctor without his shit writing.


I thought similar about Moffat and Capaldi. The answer would have been no.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 29, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m not sorry to see Chibnall go, with his sledgehammer style, but I liked Whittaker.



Like Capaldi before her, you have to picture how good she could have been with a passable script.

I dread to think who will replace Chibnall though.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 29, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Like Capaldi before her, you have to picture how good she could have been with a passable script.
> 
> I dread to think who will replace Chibnall though.


Liked for the top bit. Alarm at the bottom!


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## Saul Goodman (Jul 29, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> I thought similar about Moffat and Capaldi. The answer would have been no.


I think Capaldi and Whittaker are both good actors, but I don't think either of them should have played The Doctor.


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## Sasaferrato (Jul 29, 2021)

As I haven't watched it since 1968, this goes straight over my head.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 29, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> As I haven't watched it since 1968, this goes straight over my head.


Start again.


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## Sasaferrato (Jul 29, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Start again.


At 1963?


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## glitch hiker (Jul 29, 2021)

All the internet crybabies, filling their boots. "Oh a woman, she's _ruined_ everything"

Fucking pearl clutching cunts

I think the last season she was pretty good. It's sad we can't get an actor to stick around for a bit longer than a few seaons. But the writing was ropey. Just tell good adventures, like series 1. Brilliant stuff.

I also think the BBC overwork the actors. I think that's why Capaldi left, he got burnt out travelling the world and doing all the conventions and stuff. Plus it's a hefty work schedule.

I wonder if things would have been different sans covid?

Fucking manbabies


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## cupid_stunt (Jul 29, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> At 1963?



Try from 2005, there're 168 episodes available on the iplayer.  









						Doctor Who
					

Adventures in Space and Time.




					www.bbc.co.uk


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 30, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m not sorry to see Chibnall go, with his sledgehammer style, but I liked Whittaker.


Me too. Another wasted actor. She was good as was Capaldi, but the stories just are not there, especially for Whittaker. Too many assistants, too many bombastic stories. She was a fine actress and could have just done a monster of the week . . it was quirky enough with her getting used to being a woman. If the whole timeless child thing sticks, it's pretty much ruined dr who for me, it's worse than McGanns half human (which can at least be explained away by saying he 'feels' half human because he has spent so much time around them).


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## glitch hiker (Jul 30, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m not sorry to see Chibnall go, with his sledgehammer style, but I liked Whittaker.


Can you articulate what you mean by sledgehammer style?


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## glitch hiker (Jul 30, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Me too. Another wasted actor. She was good as was Capaldi, but the stories just are not there, especially for Whittaker. Too many assistants, too many bombastic stories. She was a fine actress and could have just done a monster of the week . . it was quirky enough with her getting used to being a woman. If the whole timeless child thing sticks, it's pretty much ruined dr who for me, it's worse than McGanns half human (which can at least be explained away by saying he 'feels' half human because he has spent so much time around them).


I think that's the crux of it: the stories are just lacking. If you look at series 1 with Ecclescake it just works. They are simple and engaging stories. There's also an overall arc with the bad wofl thing but it didn't beat you over the head or confuse you, it was a fun thing for the fans to speculate on. In no way did it completely rewrite the character, and for no apparent reason. 

I guess we'll see if the show gets retired if and when they don't announce her replacement.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 30, 2021)

glitch hiker said:


> Can you articulate what you mean by sledgehammer style?


Plots that literally end with “gather round guys while I explain the moral of the story”.

Give us a bit more credit, please, Chibnall.


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## glitch hiker (Jul 30, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Plots that literally end with “gather round guys while I explain the moral of the story”.
> 
> Give us a bit more credit, please, Chibnall.


Yeah there's a lot of that. If not in terms of the moral then in terms of waht the fuck is going on. The episode with the blind girl was all set up and then...frog which forced Jodie to spend the end of the episode talking absolute bollocks on behlaf of the writer who clearly had no idea how to rationalise what was happening. Is there a monster after this poor kid? Did it eat her father? No, it's a sentient universe that must be sealed off because...expository bollocks and made up words.


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## Cerv (Jul 30, 2021)

glitch hiker said:


> I guess we'll see if the show gets retired if and when they don't announce her replacement.


I think the BBC have already sold the overseas broadcast rights further ahead than this series. In USA and China at least.
Show's safe for at least one more Doctor after Whittaker.


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## Kaka Tim (Jul 31, 2021)

ditch it for a few years. come back with an "origin story" and then remake some of the classic stories of the olden days and say its the doctor in an alternative universe to escape all the ridiculous layers of story arcs that have painted the show into a corner. 
most of the will hartnel and troughton stories have  been wiped - so rich pickings there.


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## Cerv (Jul 31, 2021)

Babylon 5 creator volunteers to replace Chris Chibnall as Doctor Who showrunner
					

The Babylon 5 and Sense8 creator has said he'd take on Chibnall's role "in a heartbeat."




					www.radiotimes.com
				




doubt the bbc budget could stretch to JMS and a toss up whether good or bad, but it’d certainly be more interesting than the last 2 dull as dishwater years


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## strung out (Sep 24, 2021)

Russell T Davies is coming back for the 60th anniversary and beyond in 2023









						Doctor Who: Russell T Davies returns as programme showrunner
					

The It's A Sin writer says he is "beyond excited" to resume the role he filled from 2005 to 2009.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## ruffneck23 (Sep 24, 2021)

hmm cant be as bad as it has been for a while..


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## Santino (Sep 24, 2021)

As long as he keeps away from humanoid cats stuck in space traffic jams.


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## Cerv (Sep 24, 2021)

hopefully it'll be as good as his first 2 years on the show, and not the later stuff.
maybe the break will have given him time to mull over some better. did suspect the drop off might have been to do with him having had 20 years to think about the stuff that came first. then the pressure of coming up with new material on a deadline set in.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 24, 2021)

What are they going to do to bring it back from the dead? It really feels like it's gone off the same cliff Star Wars did. 
And I don't mean her being a lady, I mean the 'child' and pointlessly changing the history. I'm struggling to give a shit. . . and Dr Who was my everything growing up.


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## Saul Goodman (Sep 24, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What are they going to do to bring it back from the dead? It really feels like it's gone off the same cliff Star Wars did.
> And I don't mean her being a lady, I mean the 'child' and pointlessly changing the history. I'm struggling to give a shit. . . and Dr Who was my everything growing up.


Same as this. It's been shit for so long that I wouldn't miss it if it never returned.


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## ruffneck23 (Sep 24, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What are they going to do to bring it back from the dead? It really feels like it's gone off the same cliff Star Wars did.
> And I don't mean her being a lady, I mean the 'child' and pointlessly changing the history. I'm struggling to give a shit. . . and Dr Who was my everything growing up.


Shower scene like in Dallas should do it


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## PursuedByBears (Sep 24, 2021)

It's not like it can get any worse than it is now, can it?


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## spanglechick (Sep 24, 2021)

I wonder how much they’ve offered him.  It’s a proper sign that they understand the golden goose was looking terminal.  But RTD is exactly what it needs.  He’ll be able to pick and choose his actors - he’s well beloved by the luvvies.  

Now I feel sad for Capaldi and Whittaker.  Capaldi especially could have been epic with RTD helming.


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## Nine Bob Note (Sep 24, 2021)

I'd've welcomed this at any point since the end of series five, but he has to be tainted by the behind-the-scenes goings on involving senior cast members when he was the boss last time, surely? Quite surprised how readily people are welcoming him back - Chibnall must've been fucking rotten.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What are they going to do to bring it back from the dead? It really feels like it's gone off the same cliff Star Wars did.
> And I don't mean her being a lady, I mean the 'child' and pointlessly changing the history. I'm struggling to give a shit. . . and Dr Who was my everything growing up.



You're all grown up now, it'll be grand.

What cliff did Star Wars go off, btw?


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 25, 2021)

Wait do we still have to sit through one more series of Chibnall/Whittaker? And John fucking Bishop now? Eugh


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> You're all grown up now, it'll be grand.
> 
> What cliff did Star Wars go off, btw?


Well prequels obvs, but then the Disney films. I don't think I even managed I sit through the whole of the last one.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Well prequels obvs, but then the Disney films. I don't think I even managed I sit through the whole of the last one.



Seeing them years later, the prequels aren't all that bad. Well, apart from Hayden Christensen. Or rather, his wooden turn under Lucas' direction. He'll probably be more convincing in the new streaming series. Oh and the over reliance on CGI.  And Jar Jar in ep 1. And the reduction of Natalie Portman's role in ep 3.

The latest ones are a real return to form, even Solo is good fun and the much-maligned The Rise of Skywalker is engaging. Do wish JJ had followed through with RJ's vision.

Anyway, Doctor Who. Is, was and always will be beloved. Even if it does take the occasional tumble, Tom Baker's last 2 seasons had more duds than classics, iirc. And after the decent enough Peter Davison then we got the Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy eras...


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Seeing them years later, the prequels aren't all that bad. Well, apart from Hayden Christensen. Or rather, his wooden turn under Lucas' direction. He'll probably be more convincing in the new streaming series. Oh and the over reliance on CGI.  And Jar Jar in ep 1. And the reduction of Natalie Portman's role in ep 3.
> 
> The latest ones are a real return to form, even Solo is good fun and the much-maligned The Rise of Skywalker is engaging. Do wish JJ had followed through with RJ's vision.
> 
> Anyway, Doctor Who. Is, was and always will be beloved. Even if it does take the occasional tumble, Tom Baker's last 2 seasons had more duds than classics, iirc. And after the decent enough Peter Davison then we got the Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy eras...


Yes, prequels were maybe for the kids, a standalone set. Bit of a mess, but passed the time at the cinema. Perhaps it was just the last of the new ones? I didn't hate the first film, but it was a boring retread . . The second was bloated, too many threads, it's not a TV show ( actually, cutting the film down and making the extra bits a 'between the scenes' TV mini series might have been a lot of fun. . . . And the big yes, that last film shits all over what has come before it (not in a good way). Looks great, but spends the first have erasing the film before it and writing a new one. Makes the arc a joke, I just couldn't get into it, and ultimately switched off.


So yeah, maybe they can bring Dr Who back, but personally I don't know how.


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## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Well prequels obvs, but then the Disney films. I don't think I even managed I sit through the whole of the last one.



Rogue One was fucking ace though, the best Star Wars related film since the original trilogy.  Props where it is due.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

Epona said:


> Rogue One was fucking ace though, the best Star Wars related film since the original trilogy.  Props where it is due.


Gareth Edwards is an old friend of mine so I have to agree. . . However for me the whole film is pointless, and only exists as line to explain a  brief plot  point in the first flick. I also never connected with the lead actors at all. No star quality. . . But apart from a few grumbles, an enjoyable adventure. Should have been a TV show. Solo too.


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## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Gareth Edwards is an old friend of mine so I have to agree. . . However for me the whole film is pointless, and only exists as line to explain a  brief plot  point in the first flick. I also never connected with the lead actors at all. No star quality. . . But apart from a few grumbles, an enjoyable adventure. Should have been a TV show. Solo too.



No star quality?  I love Felicity Jones


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## krtek a houby (Sep 25, 2021)

Maybe Gareth Edwards as a future show runner for Doctor Who...


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Maybe Gareth Edwards as a future show runner for Doctor Who...


He's not really a writer.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

Epona said:


> No star quality?  I love Felicity Jones


I barely remember her face or involvement, the bloke too. 
They just didn't stick, and I didn't care about them. . . . We all cared about the robot though.


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## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I barely remember her face or involvement, the bloke too.
> They just didn't stick, and I didn't care about them. . . . We all cared about the robot though.



I think that might be your problem, not hers


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## danny la rouge (Sep 25, 2021)

I have a list of things I’d like. 

Stories.  With a beginning a middle and an end and with no resort to “woosh bang shout, rays of CGI light, garble garble, mystical bollocks, magic wand”.

Insight into the human condition. But without in-your-face, to-camera speeches about the-moral-of-the-story. We can take subtlety, even the younger viewers. Maybe even overestimate us sometimes. 

Show not tell.  If the Doctor has to fill in the plot with hundred mile an hour exposition too often, then the plot has failed.

Can the Doctor be a wandering rebel, please, rather than Jesus.

Can we do without Impossible Girls and people who turn out to be the thread holding the Universe together, and just have ordinary people doing extraordinary things.

Less sentimentalisation and long, “group hug scenes”. 

Thanks.


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## Santino (Sep 25, 2021)

I just want the Doctor to 1) travel through time and 2) play on my emotions.


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## Saul Goodman (Sep 25, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Insight into the human condition. But without in-your-face, to-camera speeches about the-moral-of-the-story. We can take subtlety, even the younger viewers. Maybe even overestimate us sometimes.


It's been like watching episodes of the Green Cross Code and Charlie Says


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## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2021)

Santino said:


> I just want the Doctor to 1) travel through time and 2) play on my emotions.


New Tardis interior. Maybe a dalek variant nobody has seen before.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2021)

I think it was RTD who started laying on the messianic stuff. Sound of drums. Simms was such a good Master.


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## danny la rouge (Sep 25, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> I think it was RTD who started laying on the messianic stuff. Sound of drums. Simms was such a good Master.


It was.


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## Santino (Sep 25, 2021)

I hope we can get all the Doctors from Ecclestone to Whittaker back for a 60th anniversary special.


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## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Can we do without Impossible Girls and people who turn out to be the thread holding the Universe together, and just have ordinary people doing extraordinary things.



This.

I've commented on it before here, on other Doctor Who threads - it took a bad turn for me when whichever companion was made somehow special - no they are supposed to be the person we identify with, travelling with the Doctor.  There have been strong female characters amongst the companions over the years, without resorting to the idea that the individuals are somehow "special" in a deeper cosmic way, and I hated that setting on a pedestal of certain companions in the modern era.  They are supposed to be us, they are our way in.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 25, 2021)

Epona said:


> This.
> 
> I've commented on it before here, on other Doctor Who threads - it took a bad turn for me when whichever companion was made somehow special - no they are supposed to be the person we identify with, travelling with the Doctor.  There have been strong female characters amongst the companions over the years, without resorting to the idea that the individuals are somehow "special" in a deeper cosmic way, and I hated that setting on a pedestal of certain companions in the modern era.  They are supposed to be us, they are our way in.



Donna was a favourite. Afaicr, she wasn't cosmic?


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## danny la rouge (Sep 25, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Donna was a favourite. Afaicr, she wasn't cosmic?


Doctor Donna.  She had to be memory zapped and abandoned for her own good.


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## krtek a houby (Sep 25, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Doctor Donna.  She had to be memory zapped and abandoned for her own good.



Must have been zapped as well, can't remember this!


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## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Donna was a favourite. Afaicr, she wasn't cosmic?


Something cosmic happened to her in the end (which ok, I thought was still a bit odd), I don't think she was some special superhuman in the first place though.


----------



## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

I still think that was a bit silly and unnecessary though.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I have a list of things I’d like.
> 
> Stories.  With a beginning a middle and an end and with no resort to “woosh bang shout, rays of CGI light, garble garble, mystical bollocks, magic wand”.
> 
> ...


Great list.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 25, 2021)

Martha! She was not a cosmic balance, surely?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

I always wanted them to be normal people that got picked up along the way. Kind of thought there were always too many humans. Some humans are great, but when it's always 20th century humans it's fucking tedious.
Let's have a sixties kid, or another Jamie, a tree person from Nexo 6.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I always wanted them to be normal people that got picked up along the way. Kind of thought there were always too many humans. Some humans are great, but when it's always 20th century humans it's fucking tedious.
> Let's have a sixties kid, or another Jamie, a tree person from Nexo 6.



And a Kameleon and a Nardole


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 25, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Donna was a favourite. Afaicr, she wasn't cosmic?


Donna was excellent.


----------



## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Martha! She was not a cosmic balance, surely?




Martha was not cosmic balance, but the character was terribly written and wooden, whereas if you have seen Freema Agyeman in Sense8 you will know she can be absolutely wonderful, so you know the reason Martha was shit is due to poor script/direction/production in Doctor Who.  She wasn't cosmic balance, but she was also kind of let down.  I do wonder if some writers need a character to be somehow special/superhuman before they can give them a good part of the story/character development.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 25, 2021)

Epona said:


> No star quality?  I love Felicity Jones



A good actor miscast and given a poorly written role in that movie IMO.


----------



## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> A good actor miscast and given a poorly written role in that movie IMO.



Nope, it was the next best Star Wars related film after the original trilogy.


----------



## strung out (Sep 25, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> A good actor miscast and given a poorly written role in that movie IMO.


Agreed - her entire character revolved around her relationships with men, and daddy issues.


----------



## Epona (Sep 25, 2021)

I would actually quite like it if a modern Doctor Who writer ended a companion's run with The Doctor with them doing something very ordinary, like going off to live with their partner, or take up their place at University or a job they wanted or something really very ordinary.

"This isn't Hillview Road! I bet it isn't even South Croydon!" is actually a pretty good departure scene.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 25, 2021)

Epona said:


> I would actually quite like it if a modern Doctor Who writer ended a companion's run with The Doctor with them doing something very ordinary, like going off to live with their partner, or take up their place at University or a job they wanted or something really very ordinary.
> 
> "This isn't Hillview Road! I bet it isn't even South Croydon!" is actually a pretty good departure scene.


Conversely, I'd quite like the occasional companion to enter thermal runaway and explode, resulting in a new theme for the tardis interior each season.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 25, 2021)

I really liked the Capaldi set-up where he was a university professor hiding in a dusty office. Bill was a great companion too. Sadly, although the stories were much better than he’d had up until then in his tenure, they still let him down. He was a hugely missed opportunity.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 25, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I really liked the Capaldi set-up where he was a university professor hiding in a dusty office. Bill was a great companion too. Sadly, although the stories were much better than he’d had up until then in his tenure, they still let him down. He was a hugely missed opportunity.


Capaldi could have been great but he was badly let down. Although I did enjoy the episode with the tank and him playing the axe.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 25, 2021)

Lets not forget him punching his way through that wall, over centuries


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 25, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Capaldi could have been great but he was badly let down. Although I did enjoy the episode with the tank and him playing the axe.


They put that in because he does play guitar. My claim to fame is that I’ve  jammed on separate occasions with people who were once in a band with him.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 25, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> Lets not forget him punching his way through that wall, over centuries


That was shit. None of that stuff please. Or the Matt Smith one in the Seige of Christmas Town or whatever the fuck it was.


----------



## strung out (Sep 25, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Capaldi could have been great but he was badly let down. Although I did enjoy the episode with the tank and him playing the axe.


Possibly the most cringeworthy moment in modern Doctor Who


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 25, 2021)

strung out said:


> Possibly the most cringeworthy moment in modern Doctor Who


Exactly. It was excellent.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 25, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I have a list of things I’d like.
> 
> Stories.  With a beginning a middle and an end and with no resort to “woosh bang shout, rays of CGI light, garble garble, mystical bollocks, magic wand”.
> 
> ...



All of this. I fear RTD will ignore it though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 25, 2021)

Kaka Tim said:


> All of this. I fear RTD will ignore it though.


He certainly ignored it in Years and Years, which started well then went daft.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> And a Kameleon and a Nardole


I liked both and would have liked to see more of cyber head, and the sontaron guy. . . more tardis personified as he loses her for a more substantial period. That was a bit of weirdness and lore that I approved of. 
Kameleon was supposed to be in it more but the prop didn't work properly. I would have been happy for them to write around it and have a shape change robot.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I liked both and would have liked to see more of cyber head, and the sontaron guy. . . more tardis personified as he loses her for a more substantial period. That was a bit of weirdness and lore that I approved of.
> Kameleon was supposed to be in it more but the prop didn't work properly. I would have been happy for them to write around it and have a shape change robot.



Yeah, Kameleon came across as well clunky. K-9 still was the simplest design and the best, at the time.


----------



## lazythursday (Sep 25, 2021)

Think RTD would be wise to take inspiration from the Mandalorian. A more explicit ongoing series arc (rather than just 'Bad wolf' style hints) with the story moving on each episode, with recurring characters etc, while each episode can still pretty much stand alone if necessary. I don't think modern Who has ever really got the balance right between an ongoing story through the series and standalone episodes. It will be interesting to see how this upcoming six parter works compared to past seasons.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Sep 25, 2021)

Does it need a story arc though? All the ones in the reboot have been disappointing, why not just go for individual stories again?


----------



## lazythursday (Sep 25, 2021)

PursuedByBears said:


> Does it need a story arc though? All the ones in the reboot have been disappointing, why not just go for individual stories again?


I think an ongoing arc is what keeps people watching, especially if they're streaming. I found that first Chibnall season that had pretty much zero arc really underwhelming (for lots of reasons, but the lack of an overall series story was definitely a big part of it). And having plot threads weave through a series is just more interesting, cleverer television, when it works anyway.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 25, 2021)

PursuedByBears said:


> Does it need a story arc though? All the ones in the reboot have been disappointing, why not just go for individual stories again?


You can't beat a good story arc.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 25, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> Think RTD would be wise to take inspiration from the Mandalorian. A more explicit ongoing series arc (rather than just 'Bad wolf' style hints) with the story moving on each episode, with recurring characters etc, while each episode can still pretty much stand alone if necessary. I don't think modern Who has ever really got the balance right between an ongoing story through the series and standalone episodes. It will be interesting to see how this upcoming six parter works compared to past seasons.


Key to time? Trial of a Time lord? The track record is not great. 
Actually the key to time arc wasn't that bad I suppose. Should not be in the same sentence as the Trial of a TImelord.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Sep 25, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Key to time? Trial of a Time lord? The track record is not great.
> Actually the key to time arc wasn't that bad I suppose. Should not be in the same sentence as the Trial of a TImelord.



I love the Key to Time. Ribos/Planet/Stones are first rate, and the others weren't bad, though Armageddon was an anti-climax and too long. Plus, the First Romana is one of my favourite companions


----------



## Santino (Sep 25, 2021)

DotCommunist said:


> Lets not forget him punching his way through that wall, over centuries


Best Capaldi moment.


----------



## ginger_syn (Sep 26, 2021)

Not sure about liking rtd coming back, but thats a couple of years off so I'm bound to get used to it and new who soon, looks interesting looking forward to it.


----------



## Epona (Sep 26, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Key to time? Trial of a Time lord? The track record is not great.
> Actually the key to time arc wasn't that bad I suppose. Should not be in the same sentence as the Trial of a TImelord.



Those ones you mentioned are always the ones that put me off doing a complete from beginning to end (at least for all the episodes that still exist) Doctor Who marathon.

They were not the best years.  Story arcs are not necessarily a good thing (Edit: I think in the case of the Trial of a Timelord it was an excuse to cut the budget for location filming though)


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 26, 2021)

Epona said:


> Those ones you mentioned are always the ones that put me off doing a complete from beginning to end (at least for all the episodes that still exist) Doctor Who marathon.
> 
> They were not the best years.


E-Space trilogy isn't too shabby


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> E-Space trilogy isn't too shabby


I have fond memories of that, but watched it last year and. . . Um, it's not as great as I remember.
I have watched most of the old EPs on dvd with the production notes on as subtitles to keep me interested. I didn't have that luxury with e space, as I watched it on britbox. Maybe it was just the lack of extra stimulation.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> E-Space trilogy isn't too shabby


I have fond memories of that, but watched it last year and. . . Um, it's not as great as I remember.
I have watched most of the old EPs on dvd with the production notes on as subtitles to keep me interested. I didn't have that luxury with e space, as I watched it on britbox. Maybe it was just the lack of extra stimulation.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2021)

Epona said:


> Those ones you mentioned are always the ones that put me off doing a complete from beginning to end (at least for all the episodes that still exist) Doctor Who marathon.
> 
> They were not the best years.  Story arcs are not necessarily a good thing (Edit: I think in the case of the Trial of a Timelord it was an excuse to cut the budget for location filming though)


I did the trial of a Timelord a few years ago, but I'm not sure I managed to get to the end without skipping large parts of the last adventure. I think it was just a very muddled script. Too many cooks? Fuck knows what really happened, what was implanted memory, and what was the doctor being mental. What a mess. Mel's introduction has got to be the strangest ever.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 26, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I have fond memories of that, but watched it last year and. . . Um, it's not as great as I remember.
> I have watched most of the old EPs on dvd with the production notes on as subtitles to keep me interested. I didn't have that luxury with e space, as I watched it on britbox. Maybe it was just the lack of extra stimulation.



State of Decay was always a favourite. Mainly the whole vampire angle, plus the idea of the Timelords against the great vampires. An idea that was, sadly, never followed up...


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 26, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I did the trial of a Timelord a few years ago, but I'm not sure I managed to get to the end without skipping large parts of the last adventure. I think it was just a very muddled script. Too many cooks? Fuck knows what really happened, what was implanted memory, and what was the doctor being mental. What a mess. Mel's introduction has got to be the strangest ever.



Valeyard reveal was best. Another interesting adversary that has been forgotten.


----------



## Santino (Sep 26, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Valeyard reveal was best. Another interesting adversary that has been forgotten.


They've mentioned it a couple of times in New Who.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> State of Decay was always a favourite. Mainly the whole vampire angle, plus the idea of the Timelords against the great vampires. An idea that was, sadly, never followed up...


I actually think that was my least favourite. I really liked warriors gate. All the white nothingness. Not that state off decay is bad. . . . Actually the e space trilogy is probably a highlight. I should put the DVDs on my Christmas list for the docs and production subs.  . . . . And the black guardian.

Even that snake dance thing.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 26, 2021)

Santino said:


> They've mentioned it a couple of times in New Who.



Ah, ok! Memory fail.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 26, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I actually think that was my least favourite. I really liked warriors gate. All the white nothingness. Not that state off decay is bad. . . . Actually the e space trilogy is probably a highlight. I should put the DVDs on my Christmas list for the docs and production subs.  . . . . And the black guardian.
> 
> Even that snake dance thing.



Warriors Gate was very unusual. Reread the Target novelisation recently.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 26, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Warriors Gate was very unusual. Reread the Target novelisation recently.


If they hadn't broken out the quantel it might have been another of those cheap self contained no set episodes like that one with the second doctor where it is all just in a white studio with the white robots (that were actually yellow).


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 31, 2021)

New who tonight, 6.25,  a six episode single story, a new companion , it looks beautiful and is partly filmed in an area that I walked and climbed in as a child, a lot to look forward to for me . 
Also a happy Wholloween to fellow fans even though its not always the same bits.🦇


----------



## CNT36 (Oct 31, 2021)

ginger_syn said:


> New who tonight, 6.25,  a six episode single story, a new companion , it looks beautiful and is partly filmed in an area that I walked and climbed in as a child, a lot to look forward to for me .
> Also a happy Wholloween to fellow fans even though its not always the same bits.🦇


I really hope it is six hours because it deserves six hours.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 31, 2021)

Hummm, I just don't know. Usually I would make time for what would be a family special event, but I'm still sore from the 'magic child' or whatever that was. We will of course get around to it, but I do miss being excited about a new episode airing.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Oct 31, 2021)

I'll give it a miss I think.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 31, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> I really hope it is six hours because it deserves six hours.


First one is 50 minutes, second one is sixty not sure of the rest.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 31, 2021)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 31, 2021)

And, in case anyone missed the trailer.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 31, 2021)

I couldn’t hear the dialogue over the background noise.


----------



## Santino (Oct 31, 2021)

I liked it.


----------



## Cloo (Oct 31, 2021)

I enjoyed it - an interesting set up for a following story arc in terms of how all the parties introduced fit together in this; I'm wondering if some unexpected ones may prove helpful, perhaps.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 31, 2021)

What a load of old bollocks.


----------



## Epona (Oct 31, 2021)

Planning to watch it on iPlayer in the morning with OH


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 31, 2021)

Shite.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 31, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I couldn’t hear the dialogue over the background noise.



The music was laughably intrusive and loud.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 31, 2021)

The dog man’s costume didn’t do the actor any favours. Couldn’t express anything through that. Totally immobile apart from a little of the bottom lip in up & down only. 
So as bad as the cat people in Survival, over 30 years ago.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 31, 2021)

Didn't like it. Why does everything have to be so fucking big? End of the universe. The most massive foe of all time, but the doctor has forgotten because it's sooo big. Mystery. Jesus. It's tedious. A story about dog people taking one human each would have been more than enough. One or two ships turn up early, blah blah, doctor gets involved, blah blah, plenty of legs to run across a few episodes there.


----------



## BoxRoom (Oct 31, 2021)

I can't wait for RTD to take over again where the music will be even louder.

Barrel of shit.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 31, 2021)

I was expecting it to be absolute dog shit. I wasn't disappointed.
I didn't think it could possibly get any worse than last season but they've exceeded my expectations yet again.
Steaming pile of shite!


----------



## Carvaged (Oct 31, 2021)

It was ok.



ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Didn't like it. Why does everything have to be so fucking big? End of the universe. The most massive foe of all time, but the doctor has forgotten because it's sooo big. Mystery. Jesus. It's tedious. A story about dog people taking one human each would have been more than enough. One or two ships turn up early, blah blah, doctor gets involved, blah blah, plenty of legs to run across a few episodes there.



I agree, there's not a great deal of subtlety or nuance to go around when the stakes are so high and everything's so dramatic. Some of the best episodes were often about very little.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 31, 2021)

Carvaged said:


> It was ok.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, there's not a great deal of subtlety or nuance to go around when the stakes are so high and everything's so dramatic. Some of the best episodes were often about very little.


Exactly. They had so much to set up here, it was all over the place. Plus they started with a sequence telling us the doctor can get out of anything and not even the assistants give too shits anymore. 
Just write a damn story. Make a big one every three years or something. It was bad enough that it was always flipping daleks. . . Kind of takes away the excitement of seeing daleks.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 31, 2021)

complete and utter over egged nonsense on a stick.  haven't got a clue what that was all about and really not that interested.


----------



## ginger_syn (Oct 31, 2021)

Well i had fun watching it and so did my non fan friend, interesting opening chapter and I'm looking forward to the next episode,
The production crew did a excellent job and during lockdown as well, the grandson texted to say he enjoyed it  I'm a happy Who fan right now, and im off to watch again.🦇


----------



## belboid (Nov 1, 2021)

The intro was dreadful, John Bishop highly dubious (tho ‘you look nothing like four bears’ is a classic) and Jodi’s breathless excitement/confusion is a bit overdone, but there were some interesting characters and a decent set up.   There’s hope for it.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 1, 2021)

That first episode had an okay story but it’s just way too breathless. There’s no pacing, no moments of reflection, no world-building, no character-building, nothing but loud noise and music and BASH BASH BASH you with ACTION.

ETA: Also, a moment’s thought lets you realise that seven billion of those spaceships wouldn’t encase the earth. Each of them has the footprint of something like a house. Given that seven billion people already live on earth and only take up a tiny fraction of its surface, one spaceship for each of them wouldn’t be remotely large enough to form a sphere even bigger than the planet’s surface.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> That first episode had an okay story but it’s just way too breathless. There’s no pacing, no moments of reflection, no world-building, no character-building, nothing but loud noise and music and BASH BASH BASH you with ACTION.
> 
> *ETA: Also, a moment’s thought lets you realise that seven billion of those spaceships wouldn’t encase the earth. Each of them has the footprint of something like a house. Given that seven billion people already live on earth and only take up a tiny fraction of its surface, one spaceship for each of them wouldn’t be remotely large enough to form a sphere even bigger than the planet’s surface.*



If you have been watching DW thinking like that I am amazing you have lasted this long


----------



## kittyP (Nov 1, 2021)

It was a bit chaotic and I my preference for DW is mostly stand alone episodes with an overall series arc but I still enjoyed it. 
It just made me happy it was was back on and I absolutely can't stand John Bishop normally.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 1, 2021)

kittyP said:


> If you have been watching DW thinking like that I am amazing you have lasted this long


I can’t help it   These things just come unbidden into my mind. It immediately strikes me that the thing that’s happening _makes no sense_ — it doesn’t work even within its own logic


----------



## 8ball (Nov 1, 2021)

Haven’t seen the recent ones but agree about “bigness”. The Weeping Angels weren’t massively influential villains in the scheme of things but that first “Blink” episode was so impactful and will persist so strongly in people who were kids at the time, even though The Doctor barely appeared.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 1, 2021)

I just did a quick calculation. I reckon that each spaceship would need to be covering an area of about 0.3 square kilometres, which is about three times the size of Waterloo station. That’s some truly massive spaceships.

(NB: got the original calculation wrong, but it’s still massive)


----------



## 8ball (Nov 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I just did a quick calculation. I reckon that each spaceship would need to be covering an area of about 0.3 square kilometres. That’s some truly massive spaceships.
> 
> (NB: got the original calculation wrong, but it’s still massive)



Once the Dyson Sphere is sorted, that will be a sub-compact runabout.


----------



## belboid (Nov 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I just did a quick calculation. I reckon that each spaceship would need to be covering an area of about 0.3 square kilometres, which is about three times the size of Waterloo station. That’s some truly massive spaceships.
> 
> (NB: got the original calculation wrong, but it’s still massive)


damn you, I was just coming on to tip your original calculation to pieces!

You are still forgetting that the ships appeared to extend themselves when joining together, becoming almost square.  And I am happy to accept that interstellar craft are pretty long.

 [edit: actually, I'm still dubious about the maths. 20,000km from Earth they'd still only be needing just over one metre per ship. I would be more worried about the effect of completely blocking the sun for the entire planet. And Doc knows what it would do to the tides. It would be about 250sqm if the moon is inside]


----------



## kabbes (Nov 2, 2021)

I double checked my assumptions — I had thought that the earth radius is 12700km but that’s actually it’s diameter.  If you use its actual radius and add about a km for orbit you get to more like 0.1sq km per ship, which still makes every ship the size of Waterloo station (the whole thing, that is, including the concourses).

We saw one ship in detail — it was nothing like that size. It was more like the equivalent of three or four platforms’ worth, at most. Even if they’re over half an acre — say 50mx50m, which is still pretty huge — that is only 0.0025 square km. The joined-up ships would have needed to have been 97.5% blank space. The ships would have been all but invisible in a mass of void.   Even the biggest battleship _ever constructed _on Earth — the Yamamoto — was still only 0.01 sq km. Seven billion Yamamotos would have still needed to be 90% blank space and these ships were nothing like that big.

Space is really, really big. The biomass of humanity is barely be a blip.

The image we were shown of the ships joined together didn’t show any blank space, incidentally, despite the Doctor’s schematic.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 2, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I double checked my assumptions — I had thought that the earth radius is 12700km but that’s actually it’s diameter.  If you use its actual radius and add about a km for orbit you get to more like 0.1sq km per ship, which still makes every ship the size of Waterloo station (the whole thing, that is, including the concourses).
> 
> We saw one ship in detail — it was nothing like that size. It was more like the equivalent of three or four platforms’ worth, at most. Even if they’re over half an acre — say 50mx50m, which is still pretty huge — that is only 0.0025 square km. The joined-up ships would have needed to have been 97.5% blank space. The ships would have been all but invisible in a mass of void.   Even the biggest battleship _ever constructed _on Earth — the Yamamoto — was still only 0.01 sq km. Seven billion Yamamotos would have still needed to be 90% blank space and these ships were nothing like that big.
> 
> ...


It would have made more sense for her to have come up with a schematic for a giant moving space wall. I hated the whole guardian bullshit of one space dog per person. I also hated the whole John Bishop is somehow special because he doesn't get mind controlled plot I thought it would (and probably still will) be but this was worse.


----------



## Cerv (Nov 2, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> I hated the whole guardian bullshit of one space dog per person.


they're going to save human kind by separating children & babies from their parents, the elderly from their carers, split all families apart, and so on.

I don't think chibnall put any real thought into the script beyond "7 billion sounds like a scary number for a huge invasion fleet" and "it'll look so clever when I reveal where that number came from and turn the audience expectations on their head".


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 2, 2021)

Oh and the baddies from the pre-Hartnell days it would seem. Great. I'd love them to go somewhere interesting with it but I doubt they will.


----------



## T & P (Nov 7, 2021)

Well, so far I’ve enjoyed these two episodes far more than any from last season. The best of the Whittaker era for me in fact. Everything from the story to the pace to the look and effects looks great.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 7, 2021)

Really good. Echos of the Troughton War Games.  Loved it.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 7, 2021)

For the supposed best army in the history of everything, those Sontarans sure can’t shoot for shit. Fifty of them can’t even hit John Bishop standing still from point blank range.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 7, 2021)

kabbes said:


> For the supposed best army in the history of everything, those Sontarans sure can’t shoot for shit. Fifty of them can’t even hit John Bishop standing still from point blank range.



Why do you bother to watch it? Just to torture yourself, so you can come on urban to moan about?


----------



## T & P (Nov 7, 2021)

kabbes said:


> For the supposed best army in the history of everything, those Sontarans sure can’t shoot for shit. Fifty of them can’t even hit John Bishop standing still from point blank range.


Being a foreigner I have never seen the classic series and I’ve no idea if they were more menacing then, but I was just saying earlier to the other half how of all the Doctor’s antagonists in the modern era, this lot certainly feels the least dangerous and most useless. The Ferengi of Doctor Who, basically.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 7, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Why do you bother to watch it? Just to torture yourself, so you can come on urban to moan about?


Is your enjoyment of it so fragile that you can’t cope with somebody pointing out the stupid parts?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 7, 2021)

T & P said:


> Being a foreigner I have never seen the classic series and I’ve no idea if they were more menacing then, but I was just saying earlier to the other half how of all the Doctor’s antagonists in the modern era, this lot certainly feels the least dangerous and most useless. The Ferengi of Doctor Who, basically.


Sometimes yes sometimes no.


----------



## T & P (Nov 7, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Why do you bother to watch it? Just to torture yourself, so you can come on urban to moan about?


I don’t think that was any worse a comment that pointing out Stormtroopers can shoot for shit, which even the most enthusiastic Star Wars fan would agree with.


----------



## T & P (Nov 7, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Sometimes yes sometimes no.


I know the Daleks are ultra iconic, but the cybermen have always felt to me as the most dangerous ones.

The weeping angels are pretty bad ass too, though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 7, 2021)

T & P said:


> I don’t think that was any worse a comment that pointing out Stormtroopers can shoot for shit, which even the most enthusiastic Star Wars fan would agree with.


It’s common to almost all action scenes in films and TV that the baddies are bad aims.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 7, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Why do you bother to watch it? Just to torture yourself, so you can come on urban to moan about?


Perhaps more than any other programme, (maybe more so the original series) you can be hyper critical and still enjoy it. 
Don't be a spoil sport.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 7, 2021)

T & P said:


> I know the Daleks are ultra iconic, but the cybermen have always felt to me as the most dangerous ones.
> 
> The weeping angels are pretty bad ass too, though.


Are you basing all this on the post 2000 doctor who?


----------



## T & P (Nov 7, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Are you basing all this on the post 2000 doctor who?


I suspect I know what you are aiming at, seeing how many Dalek epics there have been and how formidable an adversary they were. But aren’t I right to say they appear to have acquired new skills such as short flight capabilities, as well as often showing up to battle in very considerable numbers? Wasn’t there a joke in the old times to the tune of ‘How do you defeat a Dalek? Just walk a flight of stairs’?

It feels to me the writers of the modern era series rightly realised the Dalek needed propping up by various means to remain the credible meta-antagonist they are meant to be. The cybermen on the other hand always felt properly bad-ass to me.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 7, 2021)

The weeping angels are the scariest things in the history of scary things. Cybermen pale in comparison.


----------



## gosub (Nov 7, 2021)

Did they bring in john Bishop to make the rest of the acting seem better?


----------



## T & P (Nov 7, 2021)

gosub said:


> Did they bring in john Bishop to make the rest of the acting seem better?


I like him! Certainly a lot preferable to the ludicrous and extremely boring triple assistant set up of the last couple of seasons.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 7, 2021)

The scariest of the Doctor Who “villains” was that parasite thing from the Library, that ate you if you were in shadow.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 7, 2021)

kabbes said:


> The scariest of the Doctor Who “villains” was that parasite thing from the Library, that ate you if you were in shadow.


I can leave the light on. I can't not blink.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 7, 2021)

How about


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 7, 2021)

kabbes said:


> For the supposed best army in the history of everything, those Sontarans sure can’t shoot for shit. Fifty of them can’t even hit John Bishop standing still from point blank range.


Fifty sultanas, taken down by two pensioners with frying pans.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 7, 2021)

kabbes said:


> How about
> 
> View attachment 295910


Yeah, the gas mask face people were sufficiently scary.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Is your enjoyment of it so fragile that you can’t cope with somebody pointing out the stupid parts?



No. It was a stupid point, because various aliens have been shooting at the Doctor and their companions with little success for bloody decades, including in the original series, and have mostly been crap at doing so, it's part & parcel of the thing. 



danny la rouge said:


> It’s common to almost all action scenes in films and TV that the baddies are bad aims.



Indeed.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 8, 2021)

A stupid trope doesn’t become less glaring just because it is a trope.

I think Doctor Who is actually at its worst when it involves the kind of baddies that shoot, not least because they are always shit at it.  It’s at its best with more implied threats — weeping angels, gas mask boy, threat in the dark.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 8, 2021)

T & P said:


> I suspect I know what you are aiming at, seeing how many Dalek epics there have been and how formidable an adversary they were. But aren’t I right to say they appear to have acquired new skills such as short flight capabilities, as well as often showing up to battle in very considerable numbers? Wasn’t there a joke in the old times to the tune of ‘How do you defeat a Dalek? Just walk a flight of stairs’?
> 
> It feels to me the writers of the modern era series rightly realised the Dalek needed propping up by various means to remain the credible meta-antagonist they are meant to be. The cybermen on the other hand always felt properly bad-ass to me.


I wasn't getting at anything. Just asking. I was thinking more about cybermen and how they were more scary in the older episodes, perhaps until the 80s. Daleks were always more scary in episodes with maze like corridors where they could pop out at any moment and corner you. 

The stairs thing was addressed in an 80s McCoy episode cliffhanger where he ran up some stairs to escape and dalek just started to levitate _cue the eeeeeeeoooooowwwwww end music_ . Comedy gold.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 8, 2021)

Another bouncingly good episode, it was also lovely to see so much of the area i used to go climbing as a child in the episode proper stroll down memory lane , excellent job done by the crew  and production staff, the cast were also excellent and they must have been freezing  during a winter shoot at Morlais , I'm liking john bishop's character quite a lot it will be interesting to see where the character goes. All in all I'm a happy who fan and feel that will continue,roll on next week.
I'm  also liking the lack of spoilers that Chris Chibnall has brought in long may it last.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> How about
> 
> View attachment 295910


My son has that as his message notification


----------



## Cloo (Nov 8, 2021)

T & P said:


> Well, so far I’ve enjoyed these two episodes far more than any from last season. The best of the Whittaker era for me in fact. Everything from the story to the pace to the look and effects looks great.


Ditto - I think they've kept up the pace and the interest very well. Too many from the last series have been a bit 'so what?', but these two episodes have kept you engaged with that's going to happen next and in the longer term


----------



## seeformiles (Nov 8, 2021)

T & P said:


> I suspect I know what you are aiming at, seeing how many Dalek epics there have been and how formidable an adversary they were. But aren’t I right to say they appear to have acquired new skills such as short flight capabilities, as well as often showing up to battle in very considerable numbers? Wasn’t there a joke in the old times to the tune of ‘How do you defeat a Dalek? Just walk a flight of stairs’?
> 
> It feels to me the writers of the modern era series rightly realised the Dalek needed propping up by various means to remain the credible meta-antagonist they are meant to be. The cybermen on the other hand always felt properly bad-ass to me.



Iirc the Daleks get overused due to a contractual clause with the estate of Terry Nation that states they have to appear in every series or they’ll lose the right to use them at all. Bit shit really esp. as the scripts written by T.Nation just seem to follow a well worn path I.e. capture, escape, capture, escape, etc. for 6 or more episodes.


----------



## Cloo (Nov 8, 2021)

The guys playing Swarm and Azure are having a tremendous time chewing the scenery.


----------



## T & P (Nov 14, 2021)

kittyP said:


> Oooohhhh noooooooo I fucking HATE John Bishop





SpookyFrank said:


> Wait do we still have to sit through one more series of Chibnall/Whittaker? And John fucking Bishop now? Eugh


Quite contrary to your views, I think he is by far the most likeable and least intrusive companion of the last few seasons, if not the entire modern era. 

I’m all for the companions being credible, three dimensional characters but I was growing increasingly bored by their presence, traits and influence in the overall storylines. I think he’s fucking great by comparison, actually. Anyway, I’d be interested to hear if your earlier opinions have shifted at all…


----------



## kittyP (Nov 14, 2021)

T & P said:


> Quite contrary to your views, I think he is by far the most likeable and least intrusive companion of the last few seasons, if not the entire modern era.
> 
> I’m all for the companions being credible, three dimensional characters but I was growing increasingly bored by their presence, traits and influence in the overall storylines. I think he’s fucking great by comparison, actually. Anyway, I’d be interested to hear if your earlier opinions have shifted at all…



I don't quite agree but do know what you mean. 
That's probably why JB isn't bothering me to much, coz he's barely in it so far


----------



## T & P (Nov 14, 2021)

Mmm… concluding episode has left me rather underwhelmed. Disappointing conclusion of the best season in years.

Am I alone in yearning for the era of predominantly simpler, self-contained stories? I can accept being consistently wondering wtf is going on with the plot and the story arc when I go to the cinema to watch a Christopher Nolan sci-fi epic, but not so much this.


----------



## tommers (Nov 14, 2021)

T & P said:


> Mmm… concluding episode has left me rather underwhelmed. Disappointing conclusion of the best season in years.
> 
> Am I alone in yearning for the era of predominantly simpler, self-contained stories? I can accept being consistently wondering wtf is going on with the plot and the story arc when I go to the cinema to watch a Christopher Nolan sci-fi epic, but not so much this.


There are three more arent there?


----------



## T & P (Nov 14, 2021)

tommers said:


> There are three more arent there?


Not sure to be honest. I believe this ‘The Flux’ thing is three episodes so I had assumed that’d be it until Xmas.


----------



## Santino (Nov 14, 2021)

There's definitely three more, it's Weeping Angels next week.


----------



## Cloo (Nov 14, 2021)

Yes, IIRC Flux is a series of 6, then there are 3 'Regeneration specials' to come next year.

Didn't like this episode quite as much as the last one, though


> Spoiler: Spoilery stuff
> 
> 
> 
> liked the reappearance of the Fugitive Doctor, Vinder looking in the TARDIS and knowing what it was, and the Angel's takeover


ETA: 2 regeneration specials according to this: Doctor Who Rumour: Jodie Whittaker to film regeneration for 2022 specials But all sounds a bit vague and rumour-y


----------



## Epona (Nov 15, 2021)

I'm just completely lost at this point, other than the mythological references, I have no fucking idea what is going on or why.

I may need to start the season again and try to concentrate.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 15, 2021)

Epona said:


> I'm just completely lost at this point, other than the mythological references, I have no fucking idea what is going on or why.
> 
> I may need to start the season again and try to concentrate.


It's not just you, I really haven't got a clue either, nor a lot of people online it seems.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 15, 2021)

ruffneck23 said:


> It's not just you, I really haven't got a clue either, nor a lot of people online it seems.



None of the stuff Chibnall set up last season has been tied up either. At some point we'll probably be expected to remember all that, which I don't because it was all nonsense.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2021)

I haven't seen the latest episode yet, but they had waaaay too much going on from the first episode to second. I was constantly thinking 'I know this guy did something in the last ep, but not sure what'. Dr Who should be understood on a casual viewing basis, it's not not a cerebral masterpiece. Just needs to calm the fuck down and do one thing at a time. I don't mind the the stories crossing episodes (in fact I prefer it), but they need to be tidy. 
Just started watching Loki on Disney, and boy, they know how to tie a potentially complicated story down nice and tight. 
If you can't write big just write small.


----------



## Epona (Nov 15, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I haven't seen the latest episode yet, but they had waaaay too much going on from the first episode to second. I was constantly thinking 'I know this guy did something in the last ep, but not sure what'. Dr Who should be understood on a casual viewing basis, it's not not a cerebral masterpiece. Just needs to calm the fuck down and do one thing at a time. I don't mind the the stories crossing episodes (in fact I prefer it), but they need to be tidy.
> Just started watching Loki on Disney, and boy, they know how to tie a potentially complicated story down nice and tight.
> If you can't write big just write small.



I prefer the old (classic) style of stories that are 2-4 episodes long, bit of a cliffhanger at the end of each and nicely wrapped up in the last episode for that particular story.  Not overly complicated, loose ends tied up, not even the universe being in dire peril each and every time.  Just yeah, dial it back a bit, make coherent short stories that keep viewers' interest over a few episodes at a time, it doesn't need to be so ramped up all the time.

(ie. I don't often agree with you about telly stuff, but on this occasion I think nail on head).


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2021)

Epona said:


> I prefer the old (classic) style of stories that are 2-4 episodes long, bit of a cliffhanger at the end of each and nicely wrapped up in the last episode for that particular story.  Not overly complicated, loose ends tied up, not even the universe being in dire peril each and every time.  Just yeah, dial it back a bit, make coherent short stories that keep viewers' interest over a few episodes at a time, it doesn't need to be so ramped up all the time.
> 
> (ie. I don't often agree with you about telly stuff, but on this occasion I think nail on head).


That is EXACTLY what I want. I like the doctor just bumbling through time and tinkering, and I am getting sick of the new versions proclaiming how utterly god like and feared they should be. Just get Marty's dad to kiss his mum at the enchantment under the sea dance FFS. 

The Doctor Who format almost has the unique format whereby it could be any genre set in any time, anywhere. . . . that all seems to have gone out the window. Even my teen daughter thinks the classic Doctor Who is better, and that really shouldn't be the case. She almost threw in the towel at the timeless child shit.


----------



## Epona (Nov 15, 2021)

Just thinking back to classic stories like (a personal favourite) Pyramids of Mars - over 4 episodes it had a gripping story in a period setting on Earth, threat to humanity (extrapolated to threat to the universe but it wasn't like OMG the universe is unravelling NOW and there are a billion things going on at once and we need to dash about all over the place), there were a few non-central characters and it was fairly easy to track who was who and follow the story, there was a bit of mythology, a bit of extra-terrestrial threat, a bit of ancient evil type woo - it was paced well for a 4 episode story, worked really well, is memorable, and still a fan favourite to this day.  And it was all executed on a relatively small budget with relatively little by way of sfx (compared to the CGI-fests we have today - although apparently really shit looking dog costumes are now a thing).

That sort of story should, IMO, be used more as a template - it doesn't need to be all whizz-bang and charging around yelling and explosions and too loud music drowning out the dialogue and end of the universe right now and multiple companions in peril and timelines all muddled up or a Special companion who is some sort of linchpin to the structure of the universe (could just be a brave and intelligent and sassy but otherwise normal woman from South Croydon) _sigh_


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2021)

Epona said:


> Just thinking back to classic stories like (a personal favourite) Pyramids of Mars - over 4 episodes it had a gripping story in a period setting on Earth, threat to humanity (extended to threat to the universe but it wasn't like OMG the universe needs saving NOW and there are a billion things going on at once), there were a few non-central characters and it was fairly easy to track who was who and follow the story, there was a bit of mythology, a bit of extra-terrestrial threat, a bit of ancient evil type woo - it was paced well for a 4 episode story, worked really well, is memorable, and still a fan favourite to this day.  And it was all executed on a relatively small budget with relatively little by way of sfx (compared to the CGI-fests we have today).
> 
> That sort of story should, IMO, be used more as a template - it doesn't need to be all whizz-bang and charging around yelling and end of the universe right now and multiple companions in peril and timelines all muddled up or a Special companion who is some sort of lynchpin to the structure of the universe (could just be a brave and intelligent and sassy but otherwise normal woman from South Croydon) _sigh_


I'm not a great POM fan, but I did like that fact that despite being set on earth there was a massive scope outside of what you were seeing that was at stake. Didn't need to show all that. 

I recently bought the key to time box set, so when I get a bit of time I'm going to watch all that nonsense. I 'think' key to time is where as a kid I actually started really watching. Some of the later episode titles really ring a bell, and I am sure I have drawn some of the monsters.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 15, 2021)

Another enjoyable episode , excellent cast,some interesting bits of backstory, I'm thinking Lee and Gat are the team members represented by yaz and vinder at the seige of the temple. Corking series so far. Wasn't sure of the one connected series idea when I heard about it but half way through and its very good so far, a happy who fan here.


----------



## Chz (Nov 16, 2021)

Epona said:


> not even the universe being in dire peril each and every time


One of my favourite classic Whos was just an Agatha Christie murder story. But with androids. (Robots of Death)

The fact that of late it's been - at a minimum - the entire Earth in peril gets tiresome. The last time I remember something where no-one was in danger of an imminent death was that haunted house with Peter Capaldi.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 16, 2021)

Chz said:


> One of my favourite classic Whos was just an Agatha Christie murder story. But with androids. (Robots of Death)
> 
> The fact that of late it's been - at a minimum - the entire Earth in peril gets tiresome. The last time I remember something where no-one was in danger of an imminent death was that haunted house with Peter Capaldi.


The last decent series finale was about the fate of one spaceship full of people with a proper sci-fi premise. The second part as always did live up to the promise of the first.


----------



## nottsgirl (Nov 16, 2021)

I’m really enjoying this series but to be honest I’d probably watch the back of a cereal box if you told me it was Dr Who.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2021)

nottsgirl said:


> I’m really enjoying this series but to be honest I’d probably watch the back of a cereal box if you told me it was Dr Who.


I sometimes wonder about that when I am watching some of the truly terrible old Dr Who episodes. . . though honestly I'm pretty happy just buying the DVDs and putting them in date order.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 19, 2021)

The last truly delightful Who episode for me was the Tennant finale story.  Yes, it was sentimental, but Bernard Cribbins and John Simm? Irresistible. 

And then the finest New Who episodes/two parters for me are the first Weeping Angels; Family of Blood; and the Library one.  And The Girl in the Fireplace. 

Just inventive, delightful, self-contained storytelling.  Really well acted (except Martha).  Scary monsters and irresistible charm and wit. 

I am saving this six parter to binge, but I didn’t bother with most of the last series.  It was just so ducking flat and dull and charmless.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 19, 2021)

I've given up until Chibnall and Whitaker leave.


----------



## seeformiles (Nov 21, 2021)

Epona said:


> Just thinking back to classic stories like (a personal favourite) Pyramids of Mars - over 4 episodes it had a gripping story in a period setting on Earth, threat to humanity (extrapolated to threat to the universe but it wasn't like OMG the universe is unravelling NOW and there are a billion things going on at once and we need to dash about all over the place), there were a few non-central characters and it was fairly easy to track who was who and follow the story, there was a bit of mythology, a bit of extra-terrestrial threat, a bit of ancient evil type woo - it was paced well for a 4 episode story, worked really well, is memorable, and still a fan favourite to this day.  And it was all executed on a relatively small budget with relatively little by way of sfx (compared to the CGI-fests we have today - although apparently really shit looking dog costumes are now a thing).
> 
> That sort of story should, IMO, be used more as a template - it doesn't need to be all whizz-bang and charging around yelling and explosions and too loud music drowning out the dialogue and end of the universe right now and multiple companions in peril and timelines all muddled up or a Special companion who is some sort of linchpin to the structure of the universe (could just be a brave and intelligent and sassy but otherwise normal woman from South Croydon) _sigh_



POM is one of my faves. A real purple patch Tom Baker story. Iirc there were several great stories around that time (“Seeds of Doom”, “Talons of Weng Chiang” culminating in the superb “Deadly Assassin”) before Mary Whitehouse put the mockers on the properly scary stuff. 
Watched POM the other day and it still holds up pretty well - some real witty dialogue btw TB and SJS. 🙂


----------



## Carvaged (Nov 21, 2021)

Soz but I think Jodie is one of my favourite Drs. And Missy my favourite Master.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 21, 2021)

Who (lol) are you apologising to?


----------



## Carvaged (Nov 21, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Who (lol) are you apologising to?



The Express, Mail, Torygraph and lots of grumpy old men. Apparently.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 21, 2021)

Very good. Echoes of the Pertwee adventure, the Daemons.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 21, 2021)

Carvaged said:


> The Express, Mail, Torygraph and lots of grumpy old men. Apparently.


We only have the latter here but I haven’t seen any of them (us) complaining about Jodie Whittaker.   At all.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 21, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Very good. Echoes of the Pertwee adventure, the Daemons.


In fact, he reversed the polarity of the neutron flow in that too! (Force field surrounding the village).  So I’m glad she brought it back for this episode.


----------



## Cloo (Nov 21, 2021)

I liked it, I was a bit 'Ugh, another angel episode' when I saw the preview, because nothing with them has ever been a patch on 'Blink' - and neither was this but it did do something interesting in giving the angels more context and it did fit into the whole story arc.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 21, 2021)

I thought the story was OK but I think giving the angels more context is actually a mistake.  Every time they flesh them out, they demystify what made them so scary in the first place.   At this rate they’ll become just another dalek or cyberman —  dangerous in theory but you’ve seen them beaten too many times.

The episode itself was fine, though.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 22, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> In fact, he reversed the polarity of the neutron flow in that too! (Force field surrounding the village).  So I’m glad she brought it back for this episode.


This one was OK. It would have worked better without all the Flux stuff tacked on. At least we didn't have to see them move again. That was awful. The image of an angel stuff was done better this time as well.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 22, 2021)

I’ve got absolutely no idea what the point was supposed to be about the 1901 village having just CGI space at its boundary. That didn’t seem to add anything, it played no part in the story and it wasn’t addressed as anything more than being just a thing that was there. But Chibnall gonna Chib, I suppose.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 22, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I thought the story was OK but I think giving the angels more context is actually a mistake.  Every time they flesh them out, they demystify what made them so scary in the first place.   At this rate they’ll become just another dalek or cyberman —  dangerous in theory but you’ve seen them beaten too many times.
> 
> The episode itself was fine, though.


I mean that pregnant one killing a dozen Cybermen with a water pistol didn't help their cred.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I’ve got absolutely no idea what the point was supposed to be about the 1901 village having just CGI space at its boundary. That didn’t seem to add anything, it played no part in the story and it wasn’t addressed as anything more than being just a thing that was there. But Chibnall gonna Chib, I suppose.


Quantum thingy, innit. The Angels needed to eat a lot of spacetime in order to gather in such numbers and [spoiler the Doctor].

Although in plot terms, the people who’d been zapped by the Angels needed somewhere to be once they’d been zapped.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 22, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Quantum thingy, innit. The Angels needed to eat a lot of spacetime in order to gather in such numbers and [spoiler the Doctor].
> 
> Although in plot terms, the people who’d been zapped by the Angels needed somewhere to be once they’d been zapped.


But why couldn’t it be just a village in the past?  Why did it have to be a village surrounded by unconvincing CGI galaxies?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2021)

kabbes said:


> But why couldn’t it be just a village in the past?  Why did it have to be a village surrounded by unconvincing CGI galaxies?


Because Flux, Division and Quantum thingy.

Also, the story I’m pretty sure this was partly modelled on (Pertwee’s Daemons) the village was surrounded by a force field. Which was done with the 70s technique of mime. So…


----------



## kabbes (Nov 22, 2021)

So no reason, basically, other than Chibnall trying to blind us with breathless rhubarb as a substitute for writing a satisfying story that ties up?


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 22, 2021)

The Doctor a timeless being of vast intellect and skill doesn't ever consider taking turns to blink.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2021)

kabbes said:


> So no reason, basically, other than Chibnall trying to blind us with breathless rhubarb as a substitute for writing a satisfying story that ties up?


While I’m normally with you on having an actual story, this episode was much superior to the usual whizz bang nonsense of recent years and should be seen in the context of classic Who. A romp with techno babble, mad-arse sci fi/fantasy elements and companions prevented from being of much help because reasons.  This is what Who is for.

I’d have liked her to book a room in the local pub and chat with the professor over a glass of port, but you can’t have everything.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 22, 2021)

Yeah, like I said I thought it was okay, which is a distinct step up on recent years. I just found inverse-Checkov’s Spacefield a bit jarring.


----------



## nottsgirl (Nov 22, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> The Doctor a timeless being of vast intellect and skill doesn't ever consider taking turns to blink.


I was wondering if that would work all through the episode.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 25, 2021)

nottsgirl said:


> I’m really enjoying this series but to be honest I’d probably watch the back of a cereal box if you told me it was Dr Who.


Yeah. 
It is confusing and too much is going on but I'm still enjoying it 
I really love Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor. 
Also I'm just really pleased that Dan isn't a big part of it and isn't really "the doctors companion", Yasmin still is.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 25, 2021)

kittyP said:


> Yeah.
> It is confusing and too much is going on but I'm still enjoying it
> I really love Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor.
> Also I'm just really pleased that Dan isn't a big part of it and isn't really "the doctors companion", Yasmin still is.



Given the Doctor’s intellect, abilities and lifespan, it seems weird and kind of fragile ego-wise that they use the word “companion”.

“Pet” would be more fitting.

The Doctor* would probably be banned from keeping humans by the Gallifreyan Council given his*** track record of losing them tbf.

* - I nearly said “he” which makes me a bad person.    Another few female incarnations and I’m sure I’ll get with the programme.  I mean, this one bears the memories and personality echoes of the previous ones...**

** - oh, shit, I nearly said “she’s got a lot of men inside her”.  I’m going to leave this thread and sit on the naughty step for a bit…

*** - oh, for fuck’s sake


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 25, 2021)

Is it me, or is there something aesthetically flattened with Chibnall-era Who?

I don’t know if it‘s budget, or production design, or lighting, or cinematography - or what - but it feels like everything on screen is a bit overcast and beigey/grey.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 25, 2021)

spanglechick said:


> Is it me, or is there something aesthetically flattened with Chibnall-era Who?
> 
> I don’t know if it‘s budget, or production design, or lighting, or cinematography - or what - but it feels like everything on screen is a bit overcast and beigey/grey.



Dunno if you saw Dune, but that had a pretty severe grey filter on the bulk of the scenes.  Maybe it’s trendy.  Like a chromatic reaction to the Marvel era.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 25, 2021)

8ball said:


> Dunno if you saw Dune, but that had a pretty severe grey filter on the bulk of the scenes.  Maybe it’s trendy.  Like a chromatic reaction to the Marvel era.


I didn’t, but maybe it’s that.


----------



## BoxRoom (Nov 25, 2021)

It's a right cluster flux.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2021)

BoxRoom said:


> It's a right cluster flux.


“What’s the flux?” as the Doctor quite deliberately put it.


----------



## T & P (Nov 28, 2021)

What the fuck is going on???


----------



## Epona (Nov 28, 2021)

Bollocks, I forgot about it - our TV reception has been dodgy recently anyway (lots of building works in the area and taller buildings going up, I'd ask the council to look into sorting the communal aerial but we're behind on the service charge so keeping our heads down right now) so watching it on iPlayer later would make more sense anyway


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 28, 2021)

Well, that was too disjointed, too full of ideas, and nothing was a finished thought.  Chibnall needs to learn how to work one thought through to the end instead of just bringing in something new to carry everything forward.  First there was this, then there was this, then there was this, then there was this … on and on and on.  That’s not how storytelling works.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 29, 2021)

Bit of a mess as a way of telling the story.  The whole Division/doctor's origins/doctor's forgotten lives should be enough to hang the story on. But we've got Sontarans, the blue dudes, some alien running Unit and then a smorgasbord of daleks and cyberman look to be heading our way.  Might as well throw in Jose Mourhino, Nadine Dorries and the Tellytubbies to get the full set.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 29, 2021)

By the by, I do watch Dr Who, but I'm not that great at remembering which bits fit the canon and how current plots relate to earlier ones.  A question to those in the know, how's the Doc's origin story working out for you?   I wasn't too fussed about it, though it did create a few hostages to fortune.  Is that what's happening here?


----------



## Carvaged (Nov 29, 2021)

I've been enjoying this series. It can be hard to follow all the cleverly interweaving threads with the brain damage though. What happened to Ryan? I don't remember seeing him at all in yesterday's episode.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 29, 2021)

Who is Ryan?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Who is Ryan?


Canadian actor, I get the two of them mixed up though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 29, 2021)

Wilf said:


> Bit of a mess as a way of telling the story.  The whole Division/doctor's origins/doctor's forgotten lives should be enough to hang the story on. But we've got Sontarans, the blue dudes, some alien running Unit and then a smorgasbord of daleks and cyberman look to be heading our way.  Might as well throw in Jose Mourhino, Nadine Dorries and the Tellytubbies to get the full set.



Don't forget the dog people.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 29, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Canadian actor, I get the two of them mixed up though.


Two of who?


----------



## Carvaged (Nov 29, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Who is Ryan?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2021)

Carvaged said:


>


He left with Bradley, to resume learning to ride a bicycle.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 29, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Two of who?


Gosling and Reynolds.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 29, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> He left with Bradley, to resume learning to ride a bicycle.


I thought bicycle boy was out.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Nov 30, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> He left with Bradley, to resume learning to ride a bicycle.


Bradley Cooper?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 30, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I thought bicycle boy was out.


I just said that. You quoted me saying it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 30, 2021)

Dom Traynor said:


> Bradley Cooper?


The rapper, yes.


----------



## Helen Back (Nov 30, 2021)

Weirdest feeling.

Last night I went on iPlayer to download the lastest extended HIGNFY, and the splash page of iPlayer was promoting a Dr Who episode I'd never heard of. I thought it might be animated eps or short audio eps or something. Nope. Turns out an entire new canon series had started in October that I knew nothing about. 

I've more or less given up watching regular TV so have missed any publicity or promotion about the new series, which I was assuming was starting in January after the New Year's special.

So, yeah. Weird feeling. Weird parallel universe-type feeling...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 30, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> I just said that. You quoted me saying it.


Oh. I though someone had said Ryan had been in this season but was missing from the last episode.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 30, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh. I though someone had said Ryan had been in this season but was missing from the last episode.


Carvaged couldn’t remember what had happened to Ryan. I said he left to spend more time with his bicycle.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 30, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Carvaged couldn’t remember what had happened to Ryan. I said he left to spend more time with his bicycle.


Yes. I thought he meant what happed to Ryan in the current episode as that was what I thought was being discussed.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Nov 30, 2021)

Ryan who?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 30, 2021)

Dom Traynor said:


> Ryan who?


Canadian actor, but I get the two of them mixed up.


----------



## kabbes (Nov 30, 2021)

I liked it when the Doctor used to just be saving half a dozen people in a submarine or on the surface of Mars.  Drama inflation has not been kind, we’re now at the point where the entirety of space and time is at stake and the scenario feels completely devoid of meaning.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 1, 2021)

Sounds like it needs scaling down. Back to basics etc.

Still dying to see this incarnation, though. Despite the disappointing scripts.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I liked it when the Doctor used to just be saving half a dozen people in a submarine or on the surface of Mars.  Drama inflation has not been kind, we’re now at the point where the entirety of space and time is at stake and the scenario feels completely devoid of meaning.


Even if they are going to do the 'big' stuff, they should do it like the old days, where it is a consequence of something smaller and more contained happening at an earlier point in time. It's really frustrating because it's just such a simple and obvious thing to fix. I can only assume some twat further up the ladder of TV nob heads has insisted on it.


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I liked it when the Doctor used to just be saving half a dozen people in a submarine or on the surface of Mars.  Drama inflation has not been kind, we’re now at the point where the entirety of space and time is at stake and the scenario feels completely devoid of meaning.


To be fair, both the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors got to save a whole universe or the whole of time and space from someone.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 1, 2021)

Santino said:


> To be fair, both the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors got to save a whole universe or the whole of time and space from someone.


Even when that happened, it wasn’t just the whole of what they did, the whole of the time.  It was by semi-accident whilst they were doing the little things.


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Even when that happened, it wasn’t just the whole they did, the whole of the time.  It was by semi-accident whilst they were doing the little things.


I dunno, I'm pretty sure that when Tennant stopped Davros that time, his main objective was to stop him eradicating all of time and space. And when he stopped Rassilon sublimating the whole universe. Still, Happy Birthday you old pedant.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 1, 2021)

Santino said:


> I dunno, I'm pretty sure that when Tennant stopped Davros that time, his main objective was to stop him eradicating all of time and space.


Was that the bit where he did the “to be or not to be?” speech?  And then stabbed Rose through a curtain?


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2021)

kabbes said:


> Was that the bit where he did the “to be or not to be?” speech?  And then stabbed Rose through a curtain?


Yourself, sir, should be old as I am, if like a kabbes you could go backward,


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 1, 2021)

Santino said:


> To be fair, both the Tenth and Eleventh Doctors got to save a whole universe or the whole of time and space from someone.


Yes and it was bad. I don't think we are just complaining about the current doctor, it's pretty much the whole post classic Doctor Who era.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 1, 2021)

Eccleston, Tenant and Smith all had plenty of small-story episodes, though. Whittaker has had the odd, if rarer.  But this entire series has just been one dreary universe-at-stake melodrama.


----------



## Carvaged (Dec 1, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> He left with Bradley, to resume learning to ride a bicycle.



Thanks, I remember that happening now. I'd forgotten and thought he was in this series too. From that I deduce I probably have no idea what's going on at all 🤔


----------



## surreybrowncap (Dec 1, 2021)

Carvaged said:


> Thanks, I remember that happening now. I'd forgotten and thought he was in this series too. From that I deduce I probably have no idea what's going on at all 🤔


Don't worry about it - neither does Chibnall......


----------



## surreybrowncap (Dec 1, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> He left with Bradley, to resume learning to ride a bicycle.


Hopefully Ryan will be ready should they make a remake......


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 4, 2021)

Started watching the new series. And enjoying it. Realised I hadn't watched the previous series. So went back to see what happened to Ryan and Bradley. I don't miss them. Works better with just Yaz imo.

I'd stopped keeping up with Doctor who but this new series had me gripped. It's coming across as over the top Space Opera type Sci fi. Which isn't really Doctor Who tradition. But is just about working. 

I've got up to the Devon village and Weeping Angels. Devon Village episode felt like old school British sci fi which I liked.

I'm finding the frenetic pace fits with this incarnation of Doctor Who personality. Which is somewhat hyper.


----------



## T & P (Dec 5, 2021)

Right now it feels like I have pressed the wrong button on the remote and am watching this episode at x 1.5 speed.


----------



## T & P (Dec 5, 2021)

Jesus fucking wept, what an indescribable hot mess that was… At some point I was half expecting the Borg’s Cube and the Death Star to show up….


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 5, 2021)

T & P said:


> Jesus fucking wept, what an indescribable hot mess that was… At some point I was half expecting the Borg’s Cube and the Death Star to show up….


Was the Hollywood Handshake not enough franchise crossover for you?


----------



## T & P (Dec 5, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Was the Hollywood Handshake not enough franchise crossover for you?


No, that was crowned when the dog character howled in grief. Chewbacca gets away with that. He most certainly did not.  The most cringeworthy scene I’ve ever seen in Dr Who.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 5, 2021)

T & P said:


> No, that was crowned when the dog character howled in grief. Chewbacca gets away with that. He most certainly did not.  The most cringeworthy scene I’ve ever seen in Dr Who.


Oh, that passed me by. I don’t know Star Wars well enough. 

Actually l take that back. I know Star Wars plenty well.


----------



## T & P (Dec 5, 2021)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, that passed me by. I don’t know Star Wars well enough.
> 
> Actually l take that back. I know Star Wars plenty well.


Even if you don’t it doesn’t matter. The dog character howling in grief was a truly skin crawling moment regardless of any comparisons with other fictional furry creatures. 

Though one can still argue it was one of many homage/ rip-off occurrences from iconic sci-fi films. I’m sure I wouldn’t have been the only one to have been reminded of a certain film when those two characters  I’ve already forgotten the names of were being mind probed/ tortured with a particular device


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 5, 2021)

T & P said:


> Even if you don’t it doesn’t matter. The dog character howling in grief was a truly skin crawling moment regardless of any comparisons with other fictional furry creatures.


Oh, the costume itself was cringe-making.  I hope we don’t see the character again.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 5, 2021)

It’s so lazy to have bad guys that are bad guys just because they are bad. “We want to destroy everything in the universe because we just want to and you can’t prove to me that things existing are better than them not existing aaaaahhhhhh.” Daleks and cybermen are at least _one_-dimensional — they want to be the only ones around. The blue dudes were zero-dimensional. No purpose, no motivation, just destroy things because just because.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 6, 2021)

Would like to see a return of the Great Vampires, ancient enemies of the Time Lords. A shame the concept was never expanded on, afaik.


----------



## lazythursday (Dec 6, 2021)

Mixed feelings. Thought that last episode was a mess - confusing, badly edited, and just a disappointing finale (but could be argued that's very in the tradition of Dr Who since the reboot). And agree with what's been said above about the 'end of the universe' stuff - having stakes that high seems to decrease rather than heighten dramatic tension somehow. But on the other hand I think the continued story through the series was a better way of doing Dr Who than trying to squeeze a story into 45 minutes, and on the whole it was far better than the last two seasons. Lacked soul, though, all too frenetic and not enough time for the kind of character/emotional stuff RTD does so well.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 6, 2021)

lazythursday said:


> Mixed feelings. Thought that last episode was a mess - confusing, badly edited, and just a disappointing finale (but could be argued that's very in the tradition of Dr Who since the reboot). And agree with what's been said above about the 'end of the universe' stuff - having stakes that high seems to decrease rather than heighten dramatic tension somehow. But on the other hand I think the continued story through the series was a better way of doing Dr Who than trying to squeeze a story into 45 minutes, and on the whole it was far better than the last two seasons. Lacked soul, though, all too frenetic and not enough time for the kind of character/emotional stuff RTD does so well.


I didn’t think the finale was as bad as the penultimate episode, so for me it felt like an improvement. In fact it had in it all the elements of a good episode. They just weren’t given breathing room.  But in all, this series has been Chibnall’s best.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 6, 2021)

kabbes said:


> It’s so lazy to have bad guys that are bad guys just because they are bad. “We want to destroy everything in the universe because we just want to and you can’t prove to me that things existing are better than them not existing aaaaahhhhhh.” Daleks and cybermen are at least _one_-dimensional — they want to be the only ones around. The blue dudes were zero-dimensional. No purpose, no motivation, just destroy things because just because.


To put it another way:  “Fuckin’ nihilists, Dude.”


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 6, 2021)

Possibly my favourite series so far ,thumping great fun , and am about to watch my full series rewatch, the silver lining to a covid shortened series.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 6, 2021)

I did think the series was a mess, though one plus was the doc and companions felt a bit less of a scooby gang in this one. The doc and Yaz actually have an adult relationship, though John Bishop's character felt like something from kid's TV.  I didn't mind him, but it felt like he was the one going round being 'shocked; and 'affronted' at the baddies, in slightly hammy fashion.

The archaeologist was the type of character who always annoys me: pompous idiot at the start, but coming good and putting his pomposity into a final sacrifice at the end.


----------



## Wilf (Dec 6, 2021)

I miss Amy and Rory.


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 7, 2021)

That was painful. Nothing came to anything. Division, whoever those pair of baddies were and things just kept happening. What was Atropos about? Magic, magic, magic. Bollocks. A series popping up in various periods of a Sontar influenced Earth would have been better. The Angels episode could have been a classic if it hadn't had to jam a load of Flux irrelevancies. At least the last couple of seasons had a few decent standalone episodes.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Dec 8, 2021)

Watched the whole lot in one go y'day (I usually have a sleep on Monday afternoons, but had a wall to repair!) Surprisingly, I enjoyed it tremendously. I liked Whittaker's Doctor for the first time, also Yas, Bishop. I really liked Greyworm - he may challenge Rory for my Who affections 💓 (and I'll be sad if he's not coming back). No problems with the ravages, besides their pretty weak makeup/prosthetics. Sontarans as the bad guys, why not?


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 8, 2021)

Wilf said:


> I did think the series was a mess, though one plus was the doc and companions felt a bit less of a scooby gang in this one. The doc and Yaz actually have an adult relationship, though John Bishop's character felt like something from kid's TV.  I didn't mind him, but it felt like he was the one going round being 'shocked; and 'affronted' at the baddies, in slightly hammy fashion.
> 
> The archaeologist was the type of character who always annoys me: pompous idiot at the start, but coming good and putting his pomposity into a final sacrifice at the end.


Psychic investigater not an archaeologist.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> It’s so lazy to have bad guys that are bad guys just because they are bad. “We want to destroy everything in the universe because we just want to and you can’t prove to me that things existing are better than them not existing aaaaahhhhhh.” Daleks and cybermen are at least _one_-dimensional — they want to be the only ones around. The blue dudes were zero-dimensional. No purpose, no motivation, just destroy things because just because.


Their purpose was to free Time from imprisonment on atropos and the  control of the mouri, and to get revenge on division for their imprisonment and suffering. To them they were restoring what had been taken from them.
The flux was caused by division to destroy the universe  because they knew the doctor was coming for them.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 8, 2021)

So the agents of Time, having overtaken Division, wanted to continue to use the flux to destroy the entire universe because…?

(Not to mention that having a literal personification of Time doesn’t seem very Doctor Who, somehow.  But that’s by-the-by.)


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> So the agents of Time, having overtaken Division, wanted to continue to use the flux to destroy the entire universe because…?
> 
> (Not to mention that having a literal personification of Time doesn’t seem very Doctor Who, somehow.  But that’s by-the-by.)


They were mightily pissed of with the doctor as they were the one who caught them ,they altered the parameters of the flux and they were planning on using the destruction of the universe to torture the doctor over and over again .

(Seems quite Doctor Who to me).


----------



## kabbes (Dec 8, 2021)

And you buy that as solid character building, do you?


----------



## belboid (Dec 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> So the agents of Time, having overtaken Division, wanted to continue to use the flux to destroy the entire universe because…?
> 
> (Not to mention that having a literal personification of Time doesn’t seem very Doctor Who, somehow.  But that’s by-the-by.)


They’re on the side of time, not space.  Even tho there is/was a planet of time…

They wanted to sit back and watch their favourite bit over and over again.   And why not? Excellent example of David Hume’s philosophy.   


The whole series tried to pack too much in and I concur with the idea that everything doesn’t need to be so massive and end of the worldy.  But it did a decent job of a complex storyline with a couple of outstanding episodes.  

I even quite liked the stupid dog by the end.


----------



## Santino (Dec 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> (Not to mention that having a literal personification of Time doesn’t seem very Doctor Who, somehow.  But that’s by-the-by.)


You could build up a mythology of the universe being a balance between Time, conceived of as unending change without constancy, and Space, conceived of as complete stasis. The fact that we view these two things as abstractions only perceivable as the background against which entities in general appear for us is just due to our limitations as four dimensional beings.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 8, 2021)

Santino said:


> You could build up a mythology of the universe being a balance between Time, conceived of as unending change without constancy, and Space, conceived of as complete stasis. The fact that we view these two things as abstractions only perceivable as the background against which entities in general appear for us is just due to our limitations as four dimensional beings.


I like that. Would  you represent them as literal people who are a bit grumpy?


----------



## 8ball (Dec 8, 2021)

kabbes said:


> I like that. Would  you represent them as literal people who are a bit grumpy?



Time as a kind of detached serenity punctuated by explosions of anger/enthusiasm.

Space as haughty, prescriptive and rigid-minded.


----------



## Santino (Dec 8, 2021)

Time would assume the form of various people from your past, future, possible futures and possible pasts. Space would be played by Toby Jones.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Dec 8, 2021)

Santino said:


> Time would assume the form of various people from your past, future, possible futures and possible pasts. Space would be played by Toby Jones.


Would love Toby Jones to be the next Doctor…..but he’s far too in demand


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 8, 2021)

surreybrowncap said:


> Would love Toby Jones to be the next Doctor…..but he’s far too in demand


He's already played The Doctor once.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Dec 8, 2021)

CNT36 said:


> He's already played The Doctor once.


Yeah I know - Dream Lord or whatever...


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 8, 2021)

He'd be good though.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Dec 9, 2021)

Is the new doctor gonna be revealed over xmas? I loved the recent series, and my bedroom looks like a Doctor Who toy shop, but I'm very much out of the loop


----------



## 8ball (Dec 9, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Is the new doctor gonna be revealed over xmas? I loved the recent series, and my bedroom looks like a Doctor Who toy shop, but I'm very much out of the loop



I heard the next one was Eddie Izzard.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 9, 2021)

True, dat

BBC NEWS | Entertainment | TV and Radio | Comic Izzard tipped as new Dr Who


----------



## 8ball (Dec 9, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> True, dat
> 
> BBC NEWS | Entertainment | TV and Radio | Comic Izzard tipped as new Dr Who




Hot off the press!


----------



## Dom Traynor (Dec 9, 2021)

He is not the best candidate. He's not a great actor imo.

Edited lucky we don't live in the universe where that happened.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 9, 2021)

Flux was the worst Doctor Who I've ever seen. 

Throwing so much shit at a wall and absolutely nothing stuck. The one interesting character/decent actor was killed off.


----------



## seeformiles (Dec 9, 2021)

The Sontarans kept putting me in mind of Big Daddy


----------



## surreybrowncap (Dec 19, 2021)




----------



## surreybrowncap (Dec 19, 2021)




----------



## Carvaged (Dec 19, 2021)

The last episode was deeply unsatisfying and messy. I won't be too critical though as it's not like the series has ever pretended to be entirely sensible.


----------



## seeformiles (Dec 19, 2021)

Boogie with the Doctor 😎


----------



## Chz (Dec 19, 2021)

Been soaking my aching bones in the bath, and figured it was a good time to go back and listen to some more Big Finish stories. Christ. Why didn't they just film these instead of that nonsense we got this year? And by no means are they all great, but they're still an improvement.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Dec 21, 2021)




----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 22, 2021)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Is the new doctor gonna be revealed over xmas? I loved the recent series, and my bedroom looks like a Doctor Who toy shop, but I'm very much out of the loop


An recent guardian interview with RTD he says they are auditioning now for the doctor, he's written a couple of scripts and his first episode will be in november 2023.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 22, 2021)

ginger_syn said:


> An recent guardian interview with RTD he says they are auditioning now for the doctor, he's written a couple of scripts and his first episode will be in november 2023.



Maybe he could reboot Blake's 7 while he's at it. 40 (gasp) years since it ended!

40 Years Ago: 'Blake's 7' Kills Off All Its Stars ... Or Does It?


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 23, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Maybe he could reboot Blake's 7 while he's at it. 40 (gasp) years since it ended!
> 
> 40 Years Ago: 'Blake's 7' Kills Off All Its Stars ... Or Does It?


Still remember that day like it was yesterday, not sure I'd like a reboot though i think I'm still a bit traumatized.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 23, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Maybe he could reboot Blake's 7 while he's at it. 40 (gasp) years since it ended!
> 
> 40 Years Ago: 'Blake's 7' Kills Off All Its Stars ... Or Does It?


That can't be true can it? I remember it vividly. I'm still in shock.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 23, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> That can't be true can it? I remember it vividly. I'm still in shock.



What, 40 years gone by, just like that?

'fraid so.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 23, 2021)

Hope the next 40 take a little bit longer.


----------



## krtek a houby (Dec 23, 2021)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Hope the next 40 take a little bit longer.



That would be agreeable, but feeling like life is hurtling by.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 1, 2022)

Best. Episode. Ever.


----------



## Santino (Jan 1, 2022)

It was fun but it made fuck all sense as usual.


----------



## T & P (Jan 1, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Best. Episode. Ever.


Without doubt the best of the Whittaker era, and by a massive margin at that. Better than plenty of other episodes from previous Doctors seasons as well.

Notwithstanding the forthcoming  ‘handover’ episode (assuming the next Doctor is revealed at the beginning of the next series), I am happy she’s going out on a high. I think her Dr Who tenure was one of the weakest of the new era, but she’s not to blame for it at all.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 1, 2022)

Enjoyed that.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 1, 2022)

Tried watching the flux episodes we never got though before watching today's special. Couldn't do it, they were so utterly utterly terrible, however we did tune in to the special as we thought it was introducing a new doctor. Even though it didn't, we were glad we watched it. Best Whittaker episode so far. Not amazing, but how I would hope the average new Who would play out.


----------



## Cloo (Jan 1, 2022)

That was a good one - lots of proper adventure and a bit of heart without making it overly sentimental like some Xmas ones. Aisling Bee was fantastic.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 1, 2022)

Cloo said:


> That was a good one - lots of proper adventure and a bit of heart without making it overly sentimental like some Xmas ones. Aisling Bee was fantastic.


She really was.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 2, 2022)

Yes, she was fantastic.  And it was a very good episode.  It actually had characters spending time to talk to each other!  And a life-and-death adventure that didn’t involve anybody outside the building, which was a breath of fresh air.


----------



## seeformiles (Jan 2, 2022)

Good idea but the lack of urgency displayed by all concerned as the loop got ever shorter was really fucking me off after a while - as did the David Tennant style “Aren’t humans brilliant” speech. Better than most of the series I suppose.


----------



## Santino (Jan 2, 2022)

I like the Daleks getting increasingly camp.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 2, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> Good idea but the lack of urgency displayed by all concerned as the loop got ever shorter was really fucking me off after a while - as did the David Tennant style “Aren’t humans brilliant” speech. Better than most of the series I suppose.


I certainly didn’t understand why they didn’t have time to get to the fifth floor and back in 8 minutes but apparently did in one minute


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jan 2, 2022)

I enjoyed it enough. Still not sure why they need to pack every episode with the roster of Mock the Week. Very similar to a favourite episode of mine of ST:TNG, Cause and Effect.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 2, 2022)

Nine Bob Note said:


> I enjoyed it enough. Still not sure why they need to pack every episode with the roster of Mock the Week. Very similar to a favourite episode of mine of ST:TNG, Cause and Effect.



As long as they don't bring in Andy Parsons I don't mind. Aisling Bea is always great.

Didn't make it to the end of the flux thing because it was too ridiculous but this was a decent reset. Story wasn't great but the basic idea of putting a few people in a cheap set with a scary monster was back to proper Who territory.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 2, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> Good idea but the lack of urgency displayed by all concerned as the loop got ever shorter was really fucking me off after a while - as did the David Tennant style “Aren’t humans brilliant” speech. Better than most of the series I suppose.



I’ve kind of gone off the humans.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

In preparation for the next regeneration and the coming 60th anniversary, I’ve watched all the New Who regeneration episodes, plus the 50th anniversary episode.  I’ve moved onto Classic Who and I’m currently watching the Three Doctors.  I aim to watch the Five Doctors, followed by the War Game and Logopolis.

So, fellow Whovians, what else should I watch to refresh my Who Lore and prepare for the next Doctor?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> So, fellow Whovians, what else should I watch to refresh my Who Lore and prepare for the next Doctor?


The whole of Trial of a Timelord in one sitting.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The whole of Trial of a Timelord in one sitting.


That doesn’t exist.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> That doesn’t exist.


What doesn't exist?


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## PursuedByBears (Feb 9, 2022)

Is this the non-canon theory?


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What doesn't exist?


As you know, the Three False Regenerations are only unreliable drama representations written by people who weren’t there.


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## tommers (Feb 9, 2022)

Me and my daughter have a day of Dr Who planned on Friday. She seems to think that we're going to watch the entire modern catalogue (e.g. Eccleston onwards) but she's clearly insane cos there are like 90 episodes. So, are there a series of 6 or so episodes for us to watch that are good? Or just tell me the best Doctor and we can watch them first.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

tommers said:


> Me and my daughter have a day of Dr Who planned on Friday. She seems to think that we're going to watch the entire modern catalogue (e.g. Eccleston onwards) but she's clearly insane cos there are like 90 episodes. So, are there a series of 6 or so episodes for us to watch that are good? Or just tell me the best Doctor and we can watch them first.


I can recommend:





__





						Twice Upon a Time (Doctor Who) - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				












						The Day of the Doctor - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				








__





						The Parting of the Ways - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




To be honest, I’d skip the Tennant swan song two parter. He just goes around staring glumly at all his old companions plus Russell Tovey.  

The Smith swan song is pretty poor after the Day of the Doctor.  But it’s not as ponderous as the Tennant one.

I’m also looking for recommendations for New Who to revisit.


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## tommers (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I can recommend:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Danny.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

What do people think of this list?









						Ranked: The 20 Best Doctor Who episodes
					

What are the best Doctor Who episodes?




					www.techradar.com


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## seeformiles (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I can recommend:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If I had a wish list of classic Who it would be:

The Green Death

The Daemons

The Ark in Space

The Pyramids of Mars

The Seeds of Doom

The Talons of Weng Chiang 

The Genesis of the Daleks

The Deadly Assassin

Quite enough Tom Baker I suppose…


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## kabbes (Feb 9, 2022)

tommers said:


> Me and my daughter have a day of Dr Who planned on Friday. She seems to think that we're going to watch the entire modern catalogue (e.g. Eccleston onwards) but she's clearly insane cos there are like 90 episodes. So, are there a series of 6 or so episodes for us to watch that are good? Or just tell me the best Doctor and we can watch them first.


I think my favourite episodes of all are the two-parter The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit.  From the Tennant era, The Waters of Mars and Silence in the Library are also amongst my favourites of all Whos.


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## kabbes (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> What do people think of this list?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it’s pretty great stuff.  The Vincent van Gough episode really is great.  And Blink.  All my favourites seem to be Tennant.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I think my favourite episodes of all are the two-parter The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit.  From the Tennant era, The Waters of Mars and Silence in the Library are also amongst my favourites of all Whos.


I shall add them to my list and report back on my feelings on them now. The one I’m not able to remember for now is the Impossible Planet. The title is a bit off putting to be honest. Impossible Girls and Impossible this and that have tended to be a bit annoying.


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## kabbes (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I shall add them to my list and report back on my feelings on them now. The one I’m not able to remember for now is the Impossible Planet. The title is a bit off putting to be honest. Impossible Girls and Impossible this and that have tended to be a bit annoying.


The Impossible Planet is pretty good but it’s really just there as a precursor to The Satan Pit.  It’s a two-parter so you can’t really have one without the other.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I think it’s pretty great stuff.  The Vincent van Gough episode really is great.  And Blink.  All my favourites seem to be Tennant.


The series I’ve watched most often is the Chris Ecclescake one.  Although since the Noel Clarke revelations (and that breathtaking repulsive video), I’m finding his scenes a bit hard to take.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

kabbes said:


> The Impossible Planet is pretty good but it’s really just there as a precursor to The Satan Pit.  It’s a two-parter so you can’t really have one without the other.


Ah, it’s the planet on the event horizon or something, isn’t it?


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## kabbes (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, it’s the planet on the event horizon or something, isn’t it?


Bingo

Like all the great episodes, it’s an example of there just being a small group of people in a desperate situation, all claustrophobic and tense.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> As you know, the Three False Regenerations are only unreliable drama representations written by people who weren’t there.


You will have to explain further.


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## Santino (Feb 9, 2022)

I like any episode where Rory dies. Or comes back from the dead. 

Ideally both.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Although since the Noel Clarke revelations (and that breathtaking repulsive video), I’m finding his scenes a bit hard to take.


What else have I missed?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

This reminds me, I bought the key to time before christmas and have not watched it yet.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> You will have to explain further.





danny la rouge said:


> We don't deny the regenerations, we merely point out that while all other regenerations have been recorded by documentary crews, the middle four have sadly been rendered in garbled docu-dramas cobbled together in second hand stories told by people who weren't actually there. So they do contain truths, but also many inaccuracies and even hallucinations. Like the New Testament.


I’m a Truvian (we used to be called Octavians, but that became increasingly inaccurate).  Basically we don’t accept the way the 5th, 6th or 7th Doctors’ stories were told. They are non canon.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What else have I missed?











						‘Sexual predator’: actor Noel Clarke accused of groping, harassment and bullying by 20 women
					

Women from TV and film industry speak out against Bafta-winning producer, director and screenwriter




					www.theguardian.com


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What else have I missed?





danny la rouge said:


> John Barrowman trending on socials at the moment, largely because of this “funny” story told by Noel Clarke. (Contains “hidden in plain sight” repulsiveness).
> 
> 
> Spoiler: “Disturbing content”
> ...



See also ^


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## PursuedByBears (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m a Truvian (we used to be called Octavians, but that became increasingly inaccurate).  Basically we don’t accept the way the 5th, 6th or 7th Doctors’ stories were told. They are non canon.


So you're anti- John Nathan-Turner? I can relate to that, I'm anti- Chris Chibnall, I don't regard his tenure as canonical either.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

PursuedByBears said:


> So you're anti- John Nathan-Turner? I can relate to that, I'm anti- Chris Chibnall, I don't regard his tenure as canonical either.


My Religion is not on a par with a mere taste for show runners! How dare you?!

I have been disappointed with a lot of New Who since towards the end of David Tennant’s tenure. It’s a bit like being a Fall fan.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> See also ^


Oh, I thought you meant Eccleston revelations.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m a Truvian (we used to be called Octavians, but that became increasingly inaccurate).  Basically we don’t accept the way the 5th, 6th or 7th Doctors’ stories were told. They are non canon.


WHy are they not cannon?


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, I thought you meant Eccleston revelations.


I did say Noel Clarke revelations. It’s the Noel Clarke scenes that creep me out.


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## SpookyFrank (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> What do people think of this list?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Some dodgy ones in there (the astronaut one, the rubber people one) but I'd agree that Midnight is better than Blink.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> WHy are they not cannon?


I’ve explained. Dr Who is a documentary, except for the best-forgotten period in which bizarre dramatisations were made by people not directly involved in the events. And which even include hallucinatory fever dreams about liquorice all sorts.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I did say Noel Clarke revelations. It’s the Noel Clarke scenes that creep me out.


I thought you meant Noel CLarke revelations about Eccleston . . . Just the way it read as a sentence, and because Clarke isn't limited to Eccleston episodes.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I thought you meant Noel CLarke revelations about Eccleston . . . Just the way it read as a sentence, and because Clarke isn't limited to Eccleston episodes.


No, but I was talking about the Chris Ecclescake series. I have watched it by far the most of all New Who. But since the Noel Clarke revelations find those scenes with him in hard to stomach.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 9, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve explained. Dr Who is a documentary, except for the best-forgotten period in which bizarre dramatisations were made by people not directly involved in the events. And which even include hallucinatory fever dreams about liquorice all sorts.


Oh right, I see. It's not a theory about all the matrix bullshit, it's just something you have made up yourself to discard the last three classic doctors. 
I rather liked Davison, he was a good actor. His companions were a touch ropey, but there have been worse actors as companions. Certainly some stories were howlers, but some of my favourite stories were from Davisons period as doctor.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> it's just something you have made up


That’s offensive to Truvians.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 9, 2022)

What is “all the matrix bullshit”?


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## krtek a houby (Feb 9, 2022)

It's all canon, whether fans like it or not. Things change, we get older, new ideas get tried out... or new variations on old themes. 

Mean, what's next, petititioning the bbc to remake seasons that some fans don't like?


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## Plumdaff (Feb 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> What do people think of this list?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It mentions my favourite episodes that no one's mentioned yet ; Human Nature / Family of Blood


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> What is “all the matrix bullshit”?


In trial of a timelord a lot of what we are seeing on screen as the 'stories' is actually the timelords watching something called 'the matrix', basically reviewing evidence at the trial. Turns out the prosecution has tampered with it, so some of what happened didn't happen at all. Aside from being simply terrible, the whole thing doesn't make sense. 
I thought perhaps there was some daft non cannon fan theory that the doctor had just been hooked up to the matrix since the war games up to the time war.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 10, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> In trial of a timelord a lot of what we are seeing on screen as the 'stories' is actually the timelords watching something called 'the matrix', basically reviewing evidence at the trial. Turns out the prosecution has tampered with it, so some of what happened didn't happen at all. Aside from being simply terrible, the whole thing doesn't make sense.
> I thought perhaps there was some daft non cannon fan theory that the doctor had just been hooked up to the matrix since the war games up to the time war.



The Matrix always seemed a sinister sort of place, as witnessed in The Deadly Assassin. But it's separate from the Death Zone, iirc. The Matrix in Trial of a Timelord seemed like an amalgamation of the two.

It's been quite some time since viewing them, so memory might be murky.


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## kabbes (Feb 10, 2022)

In a TV series in which the main protagonist is constantly messing with time, including his/her own timeline and memories, you can’t treat anything as canon. They’ve already proved multiple times that they are happy to timey-wimey their way out of any established fact.  It’s all just interpretation on the part of the viewer


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## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> In trial of a timelord a lot of what we are seeing on screen as the 'stories' is actually the timelords watching something called 'the matrix', basically reviewing evidence at the trial. Turns out the prosecution has tampered with it, so some of what happened didn't happen at all. Aside from being simply terrible, the whole thing doesn't make sense.
> I thought perhaps there was some daft non cannon fan theory that the doctor had just been hooked up to the matrix since the war games up to the time war.


Oh, I thought it was something I’d missed in all the stuff Barbara Flynn had to say.


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## seeformiles (Feb 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> What do people think of this list?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agree with a lot of this but where’s the Library one? Or the TV satellite one which reintroduced the Dalek? Also how did the Ood get on the list - really annoying monsters who just look like they’re perpetually vomiting spaghetti. 

(Can’t get the list to load again so I’ve maybe missed something )


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, I thought it was something I’d missed in all the stuff Barbara Flynn had to say.


I don't know who Barbara Flynn is or what 'all the stuff she had to say' was. 
I just assumed you didn't know what the matrix was, because you asked "what all the matrix bullshit" was.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't know who Barbara Flynn is or what 'all the stuff she had to say' was.
> I just assumed you didn't know what the matrix was, because you asked "what all the matrix bullshit" was.


Barbara Flynn is the wonderful actor who played the head of the Division (and the Doctor’s foster mother).


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## Santino (Feb 10, 2022)

Last week I dreamed I met Barbara Flynn, and I was flattered that she remembered I had once seen her shopping in Hampstead. Which actually happened. Not the meeting Barbara Flynn bit, the bit where I saw her shopping in Hampstead. She was also in The Beiderbecke Affair.


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## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

Santino said:


> Last week I dreamed I met Barbara Flynn, and I was flattered that she remembered I had once seen her shopping in Hampstead. Which actually happened. Not the meeting Barbara Flynn bit, the bit where I saw her shopping in Hampstead. She was also in The Beiderbecke Affair.


She was. One of the best programmes ever to happen.


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## surreybrowncap (Feb 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> She was. One of the best programmes ever to happen.


Loved it - with James Bolam.
This series occasionally turns up on Talkingpictures Tv


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## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

surreybrowncap said:


> Loved it - with James Bolam.
> This series occasionally turns up on Talkingpictures Tv


I have the DVD box set of the three parts.


----------



## Santino (Feb 10, 2022)

What was the very similar thing with Alan Bates?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Barbara Flynn is the wonderful actor who played the head of the Division (and the Doctor’s foster mother).


I had to look it up. Seems like it's part of the flux business and timeless child stuff my daughter and  I couldn't make it through.


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## surreybrowncap (Feb 10, 2022)

Santino said:


> What was the very similar thing with Alan Bates?


Oliver’s Travels? by Alan Plater….


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

Santino said:


> What was the very similar thing with Alan Bates?


It’s included in the box set as an interesting precursor. It was called Get Lost!


----------



## Santino (Feb 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> It’s included in the box set as an interesting precursor. It was called Get Lost!


No, it was Oliver's Travels.


----------



## Santino (Feb 10, 2022)

Get Lost! was Alun Armstrong, according to the internet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

Santino said:


> No, it was Oliver's Travels.


Aye, Get Lost was Alyn Armstrong. 

ETA. Beat me.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 10, 2022)

Was Barbara Flynn in A Very Peculiar Practice with Peter Davison and one of the Troughtons?


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Was Barbara Flynn in A Very Peculiar Practice with Peter Davison and one of the Troughtons?


She was indeed. Well clawed back!


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## krtek a houby (Feb 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> She was indeed. Well clawed back!



Claws of Axos


----------



## belboid (Feb 10, 2022)

BF was Gertrude in the first Hamlet I saw, with John Simm as the Dane.  John Nettles was Claudius and bloody awful at it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

belboid said:


> BF was Gertrude in the first Hamlet I saw, with John Simm as the Dane.  John Nettles was Claudius and bloody awful at it.


I didn’t think that last sentence would end any other way.


----------



## Santino (Feb 10, 2022)

Midsomer Night's Dream


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## Santino (Feb 10, 2022)

Derek Jacobi (former Master) played Claudius in Branagh's film of Hamlet. He also starred as Claudius in I, Claudius, which also featured Patrick Stewart off of Star Trek and Brian Blessed from Flash Gordon and Star Wars Episode I - The Phantom Menace.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

Berger-Act one, scene two.


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## Santino (Feb 10, 2022)

This thread is like about 90% of our conversations at home when watching the TV, except we don't always look things up so it's more like 'Ah, now that actor, he's married to the woman who was in the thing with that other man, who was the detective in that film.'


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

Santino said:


> This thread is like about 90% of our conversations at home when watching the TV, except we don't always look things up so it's more like 'Ah, now that actor, he's married to the woman who was in the thing with that other man, who was the detective in that film.'


Absolutely, and then your partner replies “no, it’s one of the Cusaks he married”.


----------



## Santino (Feb 10, 2022)

One of the Cusacks was in Oliver's Travels, although when in my memory it was Barbara Flynn again.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Feb 10, 2022)




----------



## strung out (Feb 10, 2022)

kabbes said:


> I think it’s pretty great stuff.  The Vincent van Gough episode really is great.  And Blink.  All my favourites seem to be Tennant.


Vincent and the Doctor is Matt Smith, who really is excellent in it, but yeah, David Tennant's stories are among the best written. Stephen Moffat wrote many of them, it's just when he started running the show himself that all the holes in his plots started appearing.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 10, 2022)

Santino said:


> Derek Jacobi (former Master) played Claudius in Branagh's film of Hamlet. He also starred as Claudius in I, Claudius, which also featured Patrick Stewart off of Star Trek and Brian Blessed from Flash Gordon and Star Wars Episode I - The Phantom Menace.


Brian Blessed also appears in Trial of a Timelord.


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## PursuedByBears (Feb 10, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Brian Blessed also appears in Trial of a Timelord.


And in Blake's 7, written by Terry Nation (back to Doctor Who)


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## danny la rouge (Feb 10, 2022)

PursuedByBears said:


> And in Blake's 7, written by Terry Nation (back to Doctor Who)


And as Brod in the series three episode of Survivors, Law of the Jungle, again a Terry Nation creation.


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## surreybrowncap (Feb 10, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Brian Blessed also appears in Trial of a Timelord.


Others from I, Claudius to appear in Dr Who include George Baker, Patricia Quinn and Fiona Walker.
Christopher Biggins and Sian Phillips did some audio shows of the series.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2022)




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## krtek a houby (Feb 12, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 309715



Missing Peter Cushing, though


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 12, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Missing Peter Cushing, though


Controversial!


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 12, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Controversial!



Aye, but hardly Tony Blair


----------

