# Why is it so great to be welsh?/cymru



## jimadore (Feb 15, 2009)

Please tell me how you feel ? do you get a lump in your throat when you hear the anthem, or see the welsh flag flying? or not?


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## ddraig (Feb 15, 2009)

yes 

this'll go well


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## 1927 (Feb 15, 2009)

If we have to explain you wouldnt understand!


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## Skin (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm 1/16th Welsh. I love the language! I love the land and mountains. I am hugely moved by their songs!
The beauty of their people and so much more! Being !/16th Welsh is very special to me! My gt grandfather was born in Ebbw Vale in 1873!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Feb 15, 2009)

Skin said:


> I'm 1/16th Welsh. I love the language! I love the land and mountains. I am hugely moved by their songs!
> The beauty of their people and so much more! Being !/16th Welsh is very special to me! My gt grandfather was born in Ebbw Vale in 1873!




A true Welshman if ever there was one


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## Strumpet (Feb 15, 2009)




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## bluestreak (Feb 15, 2009)

I visited Wales every summer on holiday and I can tell you this, it made me the man I am today.  I'd be proud to be 1/16 Welsh.  

Mind you, I'd be proud if I can from the sort of stock who knew who their fathers were, let alone their great grandfathers.


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## Sweaty Betty (Feb 15, 2009)

My BF is full blood Cypriot but born in Wales and he is more bloody welsh than me!!!!!! lol 

draigg you would have been so proud of the boy yesterday--He was shubuggggling for the whole of Wales


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## editor (Feb 15, 2009)

jimadore said:


> Please tell me how you feel ? do you get a lump in your throat when you hear the anthem, or see the welsh flag flying? or not?


The best bit is that you get to cheer on Wales against England at rugby and you can get fully behind Cardiff City FC.

Oh, and scoff Welsh cakes.


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## lewislewis (Feb 16, 2009)

For me it's the Hiraeth and the history, and where we are today!


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## bendeus (Feb 16, 2009)

The endless opportunities we have for moaning and feeling hard done by. 
Revelling in the shit weather (see above)
The wonderful countryside that attracts so many of our lovely neighbours from across the border to give up their jobs in the Square Mile to come and live in it (see above)
The fantastic shopping opportunities we're soon to enjoy in St. David's II
Our strong sense of unity - There are no Gogs or Hwntws, no Welsh speakers or non-Welsh speakers, oh no! We're just one big, homogenous happy family.
Our proud and unique national vegetable
Our thriving economy
The beauty of Gurnos and Port Talbot as the drizzle swirls down
Owen Money


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## fogbat (Feb 16, 2009)

I'm Welsh.

Don't understand the nationalistic pride thing, though. Never have, and doubt I ever will.


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## phildwyer (Feb 16, 2009)

I like the way you have to give a 10-minute lecture in political geography whenever an American asks where you come from.  And the smell.


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 16, 2009)

phildwyer said:


> I like the way you have to give a 10-minute lecture in political geography whenever an American asks where you come from.  And the smell.



The 'smell'?  You must come from Port Talbot near the steelworks I guess.  Or is it Llanwern?  That one is closing I think, so no more smell.  Come to think of it I spent a few months in Llanwern some years ago and didn't notice any smell.  I think the rain in south Wales keeps the air pretty clean though from memory.  I am not Welsh though, I was only there in a missionary capacity.


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## newme (Feb 16, 2009)

Ah my grans welsh, in her 80s now my mums hopefully taking her back there to see a bit of where she grew up n that soon, if shes able to.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 16, 2009)

Conquered nations are normally quite attached to nationalism. Shame conquering nations behave so badly towards their small neighbors, we could have a paradise if we all just agreed to piss on our respective flags and share a spliff

*light incense*


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## Ranbay (Feb 16, 2009)

Chippy Lane


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## toblerone3 (Feb 16, 2009)

The worst aspect of Welshness is anti-Englishness I think. Wales would be a better and more positive place without it.


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## tarannau (Feb 16, 2009)

toblerone3 said:


> The worst aspect of Welshness is anti-Englishness I think. Wales would be a better and more positive place without it.



There's a fair point there. I've a stupidly Welsh name and a father with proud mining history. but the level of anti-English vitriol depresses me a little at times. 

Yep, a lot's good tempered banter, but it does spill over at times. Playing rugby against Welsh farmers (kill the English students) could be seriously unpleasant.


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## purplex (Feb 16, 2009)

toblerone3 said:


> The worst aspect of Welshness is anti-Englishness I think. Wales would be a better and more positive place without it.



Its not just the Welsh, its the Scots, the Irish even the Cornish. In short all the last vestiges of the Celtic nation. It doesnt just go away y'know, that cultural subjugation.


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## poisondwarf (Feb 16, 2009)

toblerone3 said:


> The worst aspect of Welshness is anti-Englishness I think. Wales would be a better and more positive place without it.



I understand what you mean there but you would be surprised how much anti Welshness I have had to put up with in various different English towns and cities over the years, which gets tiresome.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

toblerone3 said:


> The worst aspect of Welshness is anti-Englishness I think. Wales would be a better and more positive place without it.



Yeah. But WTF would we do then?


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## toblerone3 (Feb 17, 2009)

bendeus said:


> Yeah. But WTF would we do then?



Celebrate positive aspects of Weshness like er.... Coracles, Choirs, Caerphilly Cheese, Cardigans and Community Spirit!


Eta Cardiff


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## tarannau (Feb 17, 2009)

purplex said:


> Its not just the Welsh, its the Scots, the Irish even the Cornish. In short all the last vestiges of the Celtic nation. It doesnt just go away y'know, that cultural subjugation.



Pish. My dad's welsh, but mother's side is colonised caribbean, given independence far more recently. And with a recent history of slavery and the country's resources being raped for _The Empire,_ you'd expect the resentment to be greater.

In fact I'd say that the caribbean's much more able to joyously celebrate its own culture, not basing it so much on opposition to neighbours or past history. Not to say that we don't have rivalry with the British - hell, you only have to watch the great Windies fast bowlers of the past to know that, or see that the islands punch well above their weight in sporting terms. But there's a different spirit, one more of new national pride rather than harking on about the past and historic enemies.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

toblerone3 said:


> Celebrate positive aspects of Weshness like er.... Coracles, Choirs, Caerphilly Cheese, Cardigans and Community Spirit!
> 
> 
> Eta Cardiff



The bastard English have sunk our coracles, disbanded our choirs, eaten our cheese and mocked our cardigans! What else do we have left?


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## Sweaty Betty (Feb 17, 2009)

bendeus said:


> What else do we have left?




sheep


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## editor (Feb 17, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Pish. My dad's welsh, but mother's side is colonised caribbean, given independence far more recently. And with a recent history of slavery and the country's resources being raped for _The Empire,_ you'd expect the resentment to be greater.
> 
> In fact I'd say that the caribbean's much more able to joyously celebrate its own culture, not basing it so much on opposition to neighbours or past history. Not to say that we don't have rivalry with the British - hell, you only have to watch the great Windies fast bowlers of the past to know that, or see that the islands punch well above their weight in sporting terms. But there's a different spirit, one more of new national pride rather than harking on about the past and historic enemies.


Thing is the Caribbean isn't stuck right next to England and has an entirely different history to Wales.

Much of the current anti-English resentment is passed on by the generation whose communities were torn apart by the Tories, who were perceived, to all intents and purposes, as an English government. Who didn't give a fuck about Wales or its people.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Much of the current anti-English resentment is passed on by the generation whose communities were torn apart by the Tories, who were perceived, to all intents and purposes, as an English government. Who didn't give a fuck about Wales or its people.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

Sweaty Betty said:


> sheep



Ah, but the profits from sheep farming are just repatriated to the English metropolis along the West to East resource extraction corridors by the Anglo sheep barons


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## tarannau (Feb 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Thing is the Caribbean isn't stuck right next to England and has an entirely different history to Wales.
> 
> Much of the current anti-English resentment is passed on by the generation whose communities were torn apart by the Tories, who were perceived, to all intents and purposes, as an English government. Who didn't give a fuck about Wales or its people.



Yep, but you could make the argument that the caribbean's recent history and fractured economy is far more shaped by slavery, human misery and the role of Britain than Wales has been influenced by England. Independence came and indentured workers were freed only in the last generation. I'd say that gives them as much, if not more, of a spur to dislike the English/British.

It's a bit of an arbitrary argument, but the point remains that it seems a weakness for a country to define themselves so strongly by their dislike of their neighbour. More national pride, less thinking about others.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Yep, but you could make the argument that the caribbean's recent history and fractured economy is far more shaped by slavery, human misery and the role of Britain than Wales has been influenced by England. Independence came and indentured workers were freed only in the last generation. I'd say that gives them as much, if not more, of a spur to dislike the English/British.
> 
> It's a bit of an arbitrary argument, but the point remains that it seems a weakness for a country to define themselves so strongly by their dislike of their neighbour. More national pride, less thinking about others.



I can understand your point. When I worked in Eritrea just after independence, I was amazed by the lack of rancour felt and shown by the average Eritrean towards their Ethiopian neighbours, that's in spite of 50 years of brutal repression, torture, extrajudicial killings, scorched earth policies, napalm, rape and other assorted atrocities. There's no doubt that the Welsh hate the English far more than the Eritreans the Ethiopians (at least when I was there), and for far less (contemporary) reason.

The problem, I would say, lies in a hypersensitivity towards being patronised, dismissed, ignored or regarded as 'lesser' (something the English media and political class, if no-one else, are very good at). This in turn plays on a sense of historical injustice which, to a greater degree, has some foundation. 

Anyways, this thread should be about what we love about being Welsh, but unfortunately the old issue of anti-Englishness has once again raised its head.

I'll get me deckchair


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## tarannau (Feb 17, 2009)

bendeus said:


> The problem, I would say, lies in a hypersensitivity towards being patronised, dismissed, ignored or regarded as 'lesser' (something the English media and political class, if no-one else, are very good at). This in turn plays on a sense of historical injustice which, to a greater degree, has some foundation.



But doesn't that seem a little bit of a national obsession and sign of weakness to you? Hypersensitivity in adults makes me want to pat the person on the head and say 'bless' in extra-patronising tones.

I like my Welsh roots, but the whole anti-English thing strikes me as an insecure failing rather than an indication of real national pride. Give it up.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

R.S. Thomas said:
			
		

> Welsh History
> 
> We were a people taut for war; the hills
> Were no harder, the thin grass
> ...



.


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## bluestreak (Feb 17, 2009)

A great poem, that.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

tarannau said:


> But doesn't that seem a little bit of a national obsession and sign of weakness to you? Hypersensitivity in adults makes me want to pat the person on the head and say 'bless' in extra-patronising tones.
> 
> I like my Welsh roots, but the whole anti-English thing strikes me as an insecure failing rather than an indication of real national pride. Give it up.



Cuts both ways though, doesn't it? Does the fault lie with the patronised or the patroniser (sic?)? I suspect that the answer sits somewhere in the middle. If the projected essence of supercilious Englishness that comes across through the media and politicians were dampened down it would give less fuel to our sense of persecution and inferiority. If, on the other hand, we were less chippy and ready to take umbrage, the instinct to patronise may not come to the fore.

I dunno, really.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

bluestreak said:


> A great poem, that.



Yeah. Absolute corker.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

There's this one as well. Good response to the OP, also




			
				R.S. Thomas said:
			
		

> *Welsh Landscape*
> 
> To live in Wales is to be conscious
> At dusk of the spilled blood
> ...


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## lewislewis (Feb 17, 2009)

tarannau said:


> But doesn't that seem a little bit of a national obsession and sign of weakness to you? Hypersensitivity in adults makes me want to pat the person on the head and say 'bless' in extra-patronising tones.
> 
> I like my Welsh roots, but the whole anti-English thing strikes me as an insecure failing rather than an indication of real national pride. Give it up.



Let's have a bit of perspective. 20% of the population of Wales is from England, there isn't widespread anti-Englishness on a day to day basis. Certainly Welsh people aren't abnormal enough to warrant 'giving up' any of our national characteristics. It's similar to any other small nation existing next to an imperial one, not some kind of deviant behaviour we need to give up. The people in Wales have never had a chance to live by their own autonomous decisions, how do you expect them to feel towards a larger neighbour?

In any case, positive Welshness is far more prevalent than any anti-English grudge. It is liberation nationalism, not conquering nationalism.


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## lewislewis (Feb 17, 2009)

Been posted here many times before but here's a classic.

Alun Rees- TAFFY IS A WELSHMAN
Taffy is a Welshman,
Taffy is no thief.
Someone came to Taffy's house
and stole a leg of beef.

Taffy made no protest,
for he doesn't like a row,
so the someone called on him again
and stole the bloody cow.

They stole his coal and iron,
they stole his pastures, too.
They even stole his language
and flushed it down the loo.

Taffy is a Welshman,
Taffy is a fool.
Taffy voted no, no, no
when they offered him home rule.

Six days a week upon his knees
Taffy dug for coal.
On the seventh he was kneeling, too,
praying for his soul.

And now the mines are closing down
and chapel's had its day,
Taffy still lives upon his knees,
for he knows no other way.

Now sometimes Taffy's brother
will start a row or so,
but you can bank on Taffy:
he doesn't want to know.

For when they hanged Penderyn
he had nothing much to say,
and when Saunders Lewis went to jail
he looked the other way.

Taffy is a Welshman
who likes to be oppressed.
He was proud to tug his forelock
to a Crawshay or a Guest.

They give him tinsel royals,
so he has a pint of beer,
and sings God Bless the Prince of Wales
as he joins the mob to cheer.

Now Taffy is a fighter
when he hears the bugle call.
Name any war since Agincourt:
Taffy's seen them all.

He's fought in France and Germany
and many another land;
he's fought by sea and fought by air
and fought on desert sand.

He's fought for many a foreign flag
in many a foreign part,
for Taffy is a Welshman,
proud of his fighting heart.

He's fought the wide world over,
he's given blood and bone.
He's fought for every bloody cause
except his bloody own.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

lewislewis said:


> Been posted here many times before but here's a classic.



Never read that. Cracking poem.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

lewislewis said:


> Let's have a bit of perspective. 20% of the population of Wales is from England, there isn't widespread anti-Englishness on a day to day basis. Certainly Welsh people aren't abnormal enough to warrant 'giving up' any of our national characteristics. *It's similar to any other small nation existing next to an imperial one, not some kind of deviant behaviour we need to give up. The people in Wales have never had a chance to live by their own autonomous decisions, how do you expect them to feel towards a larger neighbour?*
> 
> In any case, positive Welshness is far more prevalent than any anti-English grudge. It is liberation nationalism, not conquering nationalism.



This is interesting, and has been at the heart of many a Welsh nationalism bunfight here on U75. There does seem to be a prevalent attitude that we need to remove the chips from our shoulders and get on with it, that any sense of inferiority is one generated by ourselves and our small nation complex, and that, in the greater scheme of things, our wish for identity is a false construct that has little place in the modern world.

While there probably is a skein of truth in this, it does rather dismiss how we do feel, and instead concentrate on how we should, divorced from history or context.


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## PAD1OH (Feb 17, 2009)

bendeus said:


> This is interesting, and has been at the heart of many a Welsh nationalism bunfight here on U75.



it was interesting to see ireland over the years develop a stronger self-confidence and a reduced animosity to the english as their economy developed.


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 17, 2009)

I've always found Welsh people to be some of the nicest, most polite people in the UK on the most part.

I've never had any sort of anti-English vibe when I've been in Wales, quite the opposite in fact.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

PAD1OH said:


> it was interesting to see ireland over the years develop a stronger self-confidence and a reduced animosity to the english as their economy developed.



I wonder if that will start to invert now that they're in the do do.


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## bendeus (Feb 17, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> I've always found Welsh people to be some of the nicest, most polite people in the UK on the most part.
> 
> I've never had any sort of anti-English vibe when I've been in Wales, quite the opposite in fact.



What? No 'went-into-a-pub-where-they-were-all-speaking-English- only-to-start-speaking-Welsh-when-they-realised-where-I-was-from' story of dodgy provenance?

Our standards are slipping, bois bach. Yur's one that got away


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## Dic Penderyn (Feb 17, 2009)

To be brutally honest the best thing about being Welsh is not being English whilst overseas. You get a much better welcome.

I've always considered that being Welsh is an incidental thing, having the supreme honour of being born in the majestic patch of heaven they call Newport however, is quite frankly a CONSTANT thrill.


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## Gavin Bl (Feb 17, 2009)

Dic Penderyn said:


> I've always considered that being Welsh is an incidental thing, having the supreme honour of being born in the majestic patch of heaven they call Newport however, is quite frankly a CONSTANT thrill.



I feel the same about coming from Merthyr, Dic. All the best places....


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## lewislewis (Feb 17, 2009)

bendeus said:


> I wonder if that will start to invert now that they're in the do do.



I feel that although their economy is built on the same false market supremacy that the UK's is, they will not be as badly affected by the recession as we will be, because they are a smaller country. The problem with Ireland is what James Connolly predicted, simply changing the Union flag for an Irish flag without changing the nature of society.


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## PAD1OH (Feb 17, 2009)

if you think it's great coming from Merthyr or Newport you can't imagine how great it is coming from Cardiff

it'd blow your tiny minds


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## Gavin Bl (Feb 17, 2009)

PAD1OH said:


> if you think it's great coming from Merthyr or Newport you can't imagine how great it is coming from Cardiff
> 
> it'd blow your tiny minds



we are not the slightest bit impressed by your fancy metrosexual London-wannabe ways.


* goes to chapel with scowl on face *


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## William of Walworth (Feb 17, 2009)

editor said:


> The best bit is that you get to cheer on Wales against England at rugby



I was doing this on Saturday and I'm not even Welsh! 

I live in Wales right now though, and I've *never* liked English rugby so it's cool to fit in with the Welsh peeps we were drinking with as far as I'm concerned.

Might be different for me if England were playing Wales in football mind


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## Strumpet (Feb 17, 2009)

Atta boi William!!


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## Dic Penderyn (Feb 17, 2009)

PAD1OH said:


> if you think it's great coming from Merthyr or Newport you can't imagine how great it is coming from Cardiff
> 
> it'd blow your tiny minds



I went to that Cardiff the other day and it was rubbish, I walked down the street and I didn't recognise anyone.

Now tell me, where's the point in that then?


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## phildwyer (Feb 18, 2009)

Dic Penderyn said:


> To be brutally honest the best thing about being Welsh is not being English whilst overseas. You get a much better welcome.



Aye.  It's not just the Welsh who hate the English.  Everyone hates them.  It's just that we're nearest to them, so we see more of them.


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## Riklet (Feb 19, 2009)

Don't think i'm Welsh at all, although maybe a little bit, who knows/cares, but I live in Cardiff... yes, horrible English dickhead n all.  Nice place, and I think Welsh people are _quite often_ friendlier than in the south of England, although I have a bit of a weird mixed accent so maybe they aren't sure about whether to spork my eyes out for helping with the slaying the last druids n all.


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## toblerone3 (Feb 19, 2009)

bendeus said:


> The bastard English have sunk our coracles, disbanded our choirs, eaten our cheese and mocked our cardigans! What else do we have left?



As I said Cardiff City and Community Spirit.


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## Riklet (Feb 19, 2009)

Leeks are actually pretty lovely too!


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## toblerone3 (Feb 19, 2009)

Carmathenshire


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## Karac (Feb 21, 2009)

jimadore said:


> Please tell me how you feel ? do you get a lump in your throat when you hear the anthem, or see the welsh flag flying? or not?


I do- dont know why-just do


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## niclas (Feb 22, 2009)

Best thing about being Welsh is that the first question you ask a stranger is "where you from, then?" 

[Apparently the most common 1st question in similar situations in England is "What do you do?" - is making this comparison being chippy  ?]

Give it five minutes and you've found a mutual friend/relative and you're only on your second pint. Small is beautiful.


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## Riklet (Feb 24, 2009)

As an Englishman I can attest that weather discussion will almost always come before job discussion, unless the individual in question is one of those "certified-wrong-'un" types...


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## fogbat (Feb 24, 2009)

The downside is that if there are ever two Welsh people in a party, outside Wales, you'll always be dragged to meet each other.

"Have you met <stranger's name>? _They're Welsh, too!_" 

Oh great, I'm sure we'll form a fine friendship, since we're inevitably so massively similar.


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## isitme (Feb 24, 2009)

The alps, Paris, the pyrennes, endless insanely beautiful white beaches, a beautiful language with perhaps the richest literary and philosophical traditions in the world, being the birthplace of modern democracy. A proud and active culture of dissent and standing up for our rights. Some of the greatest painters ever. A massive and rich history of local wines and cuisines varying from region to region, corsica, an often overlooked incredible musical history of folk singers and troubadours. some of the most beautiful women in the world

what's not to like about being welsh?


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## *Miss Daisy* (Feb 24, 2009)

editor said:


> The best bit is that you get to cheer on Wales against England at rugby and you can get fully behind Cardiff City FC.
> 
> Oh, and scoff Welsh cakes.



 I always always buy Welsh Cakes when I'm in Wales - I get a few packets coz I can eat a pack of them in one go (happens quite often that does)


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