# Nokia goes with Windows Phone 7 (not Android)



## grit (Jan 28, 2011)

Interesting http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/01/27/nokia-hints-at-switch-to-android/

If its true its the best fucking move they have made in a long time.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 28, 2011)

Amen to that and bout bloody time. Symbian is fucking awful, worst mobile OS I've used.


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## c01642 (Jan 28, 2011)

Could equally be windows phone 7. This is the same report but doesn’t have an analyst predicting which OS it would be.

http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/201...-for-new-strategy-to-be-announced-next-month/


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## skyscraper101 (Jan 28, 2011)

Certainly they need to do something radical if they want to share a slice of the lucrative N.American market. Nokia have nowhere near the penetration of Android, Blackberry or iOS there.

Also, I agree Symbian is shit. The best platform Nokia ever had was the basic monochrome menus with the up and down nativation. Totally logical, fast, and battery efficient.


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## ovaltina (Jan 28, 2011)

c01642 said:


> Could equally be windows phone 7.


 
That would be a clever move from Microsoft. Nokia's huge market share would give MS a large, if diminishing, slice of the smartphone market.


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## grit (Jan 28, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> That would be a clever move from Microsoft. Nokia's huge market share would give MS a large, if diminishing, slice of the smartphone market.


 
I think it would be extremely unlikely considering the licensing costs associated with Win7Mob when Android is free.


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## ovaltina (Jan 28, 2011)

grit said:


> I think it would be extremely unlikely considering the licensing costs associated with Win7Mob when Android is free.



Well yes but MS needs to do something dramatic to get its foot in the door. Losing a chunk of licensing revenue to gain a market share might make sense - and there's a precedent, MS practically gave software to Alan Sugar to get onto the Amstrad computers when he refused to pay.


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## grit (Jan 28, 2011)

I dont think it makes sense for either, the Nokia smartphone brand is in the shit, why would anyone want to go and lose a large amount of revenue to become associated with it?


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## ovaltina (Jan 28, 2011)

grit said:


> I dont think it makes sense for either, the Nokia smartphone brand is in the shit, why would anyone want to go and lose a large amount of revenue to become associated with it?


 
 Nokia's huge market share would give MS a large, if diminishing, slice of the smartphone market. 

At the moment MS is an also-ran in the smartphone market, with a business model that can't compete with Android (free to use) or iphone (better brand, more established and trusted player). Home PCs and laptops are a diminishing market. Unless it gets a foothold in something future-proof, like smartphones, MS faces an uncertain future.


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## grit (Jan 28, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Nokia's huge market share would give MS a large, if diminishing, slice of the smartphone market.
> 
> At the moment MS is an also-ran in the smartphone market, with a business model that can't compete with Android (free to use) or iphone (better brand, more established and trusted player). Home PCs and laptops are a diminishing market. Unless it gets a foothold in something future-proof, like smartphones, MS faces an uncertain future.


 
Nokia's "huge market share" is in the low end feature phone (candy bar form factor) in developing markets. Home PCS and laptops are a diminishing market, MS uncertain future. What the fuck are you on about, jesus christ re read your post.


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## ovaltina (Jan 28, 2011)

grit said:


> Nokia's "huge market share" is in the low end feature phone (candy bar form factor) in developing markets. Home PCS and laptops are a diminishing market, MS uncertain future. What the fuck are you on about, jesus christ re read your post.


 
No need to get weird FFS!

What I'm saying is that now we can get email and stuff on our phones, there's little need for most people to have a computer at home, which means MS losing a big chunk of its market.

Of course as far as we know there's nothing to stop Nokia developing phones for both MS and Android, but since the new broom at Nokia is an MS man, it seems likely that the two firms could work together.


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## c01642 (Jan 28, 2011)

grit said:


> I think it would be extremely unlikely considering the licensing costs associated with Win7Mob when Android is free.


 
Will android stay free?Theres a lot of patent cases going on at the moment, handset manufacturers are starting to get hit with lawsuits for patents that android infringes. Oracle are also going after google. Phone manufacturers may have to recoup these cost somehow if they lose or settle out of court.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article...urce-More-Code-Theft-in-Google-s-Android.aspx


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## grit (Jan 28, 2011)

c01642 said:


> Will android stay free?Theres a lot of patent cases going on at the moment, handset manufacturers are starting to get hit with lawsuits for patents that android infringes. Oracle are also going after google. Phone manufacturers may have to recoup these cost somehow if they lose or settle out of court.
> 
> http://www.winsupersite.com/article...urce-More-Code-Theft-in-Google-s-Android.aspx


 
Yes it will, even if Oracle manage to find a smoking gun (I think which is unlikely as I've been following it closely) google will just pay the money.


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## c01642 (Feb 11, 2011)

Looks like someone needs to change the thread title, Windows Phone 7 it is then. It will be interesting to see how well this goes down with nokia fans.

http://www.winrumors.com/official-nokia-partners-with-microsoft-for-windows-phone-7/


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## tarannau (Feb 11, 2011)

They're both organisations in long term decline and it's unlikely that this deal will revive either of them quickly. MS hasn't exactly got a history of sticking with its partners and making a leading mobile OS.


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## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

tarannau said:


> They're both organisations in long term decline and it's unlikely that this deal will revive either of them quickly. MS hasn't exactly got a history of sticking with its partners and making a leading mobile OS.


Actually, Windows Phone 7 is really rather good.


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## TitanSound (Feb 11, 2011)

Well, looks like it's gonna be on all new Nokia smartphones!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 11, 2011)

So that's meego dead then!


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## ovaltina (Feb 11, 2011)

If they can get the pricing right this could be a goer. Non-techies who want a smartphone but don't want to learn Android or pay for an iphone might be persuaded to buy a Nokia/Windows phone for a couple of hundred quid.


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## kyser_soze (Feb 11, 2011)

Microsoft applies make-up to Nokia's corpse


Phones no-one uses to run operating system no-one likes


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## grit (Feb 11, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Microsoft applies make-up to Nokia's corpse
> 
> 
> Phones no-one uses to run operating system no-one likes


 
Pretty much, poor old Nokia have completely lost the plot.


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## Pingu (Feb 11, 2011)

nokia are in the shit atm. they have no real idea of the numerb of phones, what type, etc that are in use. their data warehouse is best described as a data skip and getting any acurate meaningful information out of it is nigh on impossible.

this isnt down to the technology they are using - thats fine - what is the problem is the operating environment they have. they have various pods, none of which know what other pods are doing and are often competing for the same resources. they need a root and branch shake up if they are to survive


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## kyser_soze (Feb 11, 2011)

If I was Finnish PM Makka Pakka*, I'd be seriously fucking concerned since Nokia is something like 20% of the Finnish economy, and accounts for over 50% of it's exports. 

* This isn't her real name, which is Mari Kiviniemi. I just think of Makka Pakka as a kind of anally retentive Finn.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 11, 2011)

It's a shame really as I used nokias for years and the hardware was always good, it was the software that let them down.


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## TitanSound (Feb 11, 2011)

Well, I have said many times on these boards that I love my N900. They had the right idea using Maemo instead of Symbian but it was a technical exercise rather then a whole new way forward. As evidenced by the failuire of them to release any Meego handsets so far.


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## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

Loads of job cuts coming up 

http://www.wirefresh.com/nokia-slings-its-loving-arms-around-windows-phone-os-job-losses-ahead/


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## Ivana Nap (Feb 11, 2011)

Pingu said:


> nokia are in the shit atm. they have no real idea of the numerb of phones, what type, etc that are in use. their data warehouse is best described as a data skip and getting any acurate meaningful information out of it is nigh on impossible.
> 
> this isnt down to the technology they are using - thats fine - what is the problem is the operating environment they have. they have various pods, none of which know what other pods are doing and are often competing for the same resources. they need a root and branch shake up if they are to survive


 
They are a customer of ours, well not exactly A customer more like 20 - 30 customers  - the question 'how much have we sold to Nokia' is dreaded..


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## ovaltina (Feb 11, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Phones no-one uses to run operating system no-one likes


 
But... nobody uses Nokias because they have a crap OS.

Nobody likes WP7 because it has no market reach. It'd be like buying a betamax in 1987. Apparently it's actually quite good though? 

Bring the two together and you might just have something that works.

Especially when you market the phones using two giant brands that people know and to an extent trust.

I predict this deal will bring about a three-horse race in smartphones


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## ovaltina (Feb 11, 2011)

Some interesting analysis here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/



> Nokia would "have had problems differentiating," with Android, said Elop. "The commoditization risk was very high… prices and profits are coming down and the value is moving out to Google."
> 
> Elop added that he felt that with Microsoft Nokia could make competitive low to midrange smartphones ($100) better than it might have with Google, too.


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## Kanda (Feb 11, 2011)

'The Hindenberg meets the Titanic'

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/02/microsoft-and-nokia-team-up-to-build-windows-phones/


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 11, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Some interesting analysis here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_more_details/


 
I don't understand that...MS insist that WP7 offering are far more generic then android devices.


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## Sunray (Feb 11, 2011)

editor said:


> Loads of job cuts coming up
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/nokia-slings-its-loving-arms-around-windows-phone-os-job-losses-ahead/


 
Given the results that is probably not such a bad idea, not like they have turned out the best of class is it?


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## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

Have any of you actually had a go on the Windows Mobile OS? It really is rather good, you know.


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## Sunray (Feb 11, 2011)

editor said:


> Have any of you actually had a go on the Windows Mobile OS? It really is rather good, you know.



I was talking about the OS guys at Nokia getting the sack.

Windows Phone 7 is pretty good but there are some glaring issues like only being able to connect via DHCP on Wifi, cant enter an IP address and small but important details like it.  Bit like the iPhone's 1st few versions of the OS.

Lack of Apps will be the one but I think this could be a slow burner.  If MS put any sort of effort into this it will be three way split.  Competition is a good thing.


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## ovaltina (Feb 11, 2011)

Sunray said:


> If MS put any sort of effort into this it will be three way split.  Competition is a good thing.


 
I'd bet the farm on it. It's their last chance to get a piece of the smartphone pie and now they know they're up against fierce competition from Google, they'll throw their _massive_ weight behind making this work. Same goes for Nokia.


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## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

(((HP webOS)))


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 11, 2011)

Does seem a shame...if they'd have brought out a larger screen device I'd have been tempted.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 11, 2011)

editor said:


> Have any of you actually had a go on the Windows Mobile OS? It really is rather good, you know.


 
I had a go on it the other day. A guy at the pub who is a Windows dev had one. The UI is very nice and slick definitely, very pleasant.

On the other hand I then went to the browser to try to go to some HTML5 demo sites to see if, by some chance, they were getting with the program on their phones even if not on the desktop. Nope, no CANVAS. Phone Fail, Will Be Ignoring This Platform.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2011)

MS must be very happy having just bought a big chunk of the smartphone OS market...


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## Sunray (Feb 12, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I had a go on it the other day. A guy at the pub who is a Windows dev had one. The UI is very nice and slick definitely, very pleasant.
> 
> On the other hand I then went to the browser to try to go to some HTML5 demo sites to see if, by some chance, they were getting with the program on their phones even if not on the desktop. Nope, no CANVAS. Phone Fail, Will Be Ignoring This Platform.


 
This is where there may well be a lot of traction for applications.

All of the developer tools for this platform are freely available for download on the MS site.  

MS are number one for developer tools.  I use Visual Studio 2010 for work and all the other platforms are OK but just total pretenders to that bit of software its over 15 years in the making and it shows.

Microsoft have great documentation to back it up.

So anyone with a 1/2 decent PC and an internet connection can write applications for the WP7 platform if they apply themselves.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 12, 2011)

Anyone can write apps for Android for nothing. It's more expensive to write apps for the iPhone, but not very, and you can do a lot of the dev work on any platform and compile it on someone else's mac if you don't have one (and Xcode is a great IDE too). I would also assume that writing WP7 apps requires Windows 7. (It certainly requires a desire to do it in the first place.)


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## editor (Feb 12, 2011)

WP7 apps have already soared past the webOS total and no less than 1,000 new apps arrived in the last two weeks: http://www.devicemag.com/2011/02/11/windows-phone-marketplace-logs-1000-apps-in-2-weeks/

It's a good platform with great potential, and as far as consumers are concerned, it has to be a case of the more competing OSs the better.


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## grit (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm not really sure if they could have made a worse decision lol. Stock down 14% and 1k employees stage a walk out in protest. This feels like the nail in the coffin.


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## mauvais (Feb 12, 2011)

Sunray said:


> MS are number one for developer tools.  I use Visual Studio 2010 for work and all the other platforms are OK but just total pretenders to that bit of software its over 15 years in the making and it shows.


Are you drunk?

Apart from anything purely visual (e.g. UI design), VS is _astonishingly _shit. I mean it didn't have a FUCKING CALL HIERARCHY until 2010. 15 years in the making indeed!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 12, 2011)

grit said:


> I'm not really sure if they could have made a worse decision lol. Stock down 14% and 1k employees stage a walk out in protest. This feels like the nail in the coffin.


 
It does feel like they're just hanging on.

I can see why they may think its lowest risk option, but to maintain themselves as a major player in the phone market I think they needed to do something bolder.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 12, 2011)

editor said:


> WP7 apps have already soared past the webOS total


 
To be fair that's never going to be hard to do.


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## paolo (Feb 12, 2011)

"They're like the two people left at the end of the disco who think 'oh, you'll do'" - From an article in today's Graun.


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## Sunray (Feb 13, 2011)

mauvais said:


> Are you drunk?
> 
> Apart from anything purely visual (e.g. UI design), VS is _astonishingly _shit. I mean it didn't have a FUCKING CALL HIERARCHY until 2010. 15 years in the making indeed!


 
Had that for ever what are you talking about?  In the older ones just needed to enable browse information.


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## Chester Copperpot (Feb 14, 2011)

paolo999 said:


> "They're like the two people left at the end of the disco who think 'oh, you'll do'" - From an article in today's Graun.



Ha!


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## teuchter (Feb 15, 2011)

"Nokia Plan B"

http://nokiaplanb.com/2011/02/14/an...holders-and-institutional-investors/#comments


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## ovaltina (Feb 15, 2011)

teuchter said:


> "Nokia Plan B"
> 
> http://nokiaplanb.com/2011/02/14/an...holders-and-institutional-investors/#comments


 
So their plan is to stick with symbian and meego...  genius.


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## grit (Feb 18, 2011)

Whats weird about this situation, is that apparently  MSFT paid Nokia significant amounts of money to make this deal happen.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 18, 2011)

grit said:


> Whats weird about this situation, is that apparently  MSFT paid Nokia significant amounts of money to make this deal happen.


 
They claim not, but wouldn't be weird to me. I'm sure it wouldn't be a gift, but the Nokia brand is far from dead in many peoples eyes, so gives WP7 some proper qudos.


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## mauvais (Feb 21, 2011)

WP7 was a damp squib at MWC.

Android (not Google) was splattered all over the place - even this cynic thought they pulled off some degree of 'cool' with their app stand, plus Android stuff on every faintly related third party stand. It might as well have been AWC instead.

WP7 had one average stand, maybe two devices on the HTC stand, something else in an external hotel and that was it. I watched some of their presentations and they were about how it had voice search, which I found puzzling since it's apparently 2011 now, and how it was easy to integrate Bing maps (for free! and it gets the map! from the internet! for free!) which I found puzzling since it's apparently _not_ 2008.

No Nokia presence apart from a slightly miserable looking Qt stand, although Intel did a convincing job of selling me the now purely-embedded MeeGo.


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## Idaho (Feb 21, 2011)

The only way this isn't doomed is if they bring out a greatly acclaimed, massively promoted, really good phone at bargain basement loss leader prices.


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## teuchter (Feb 21, 2011)

Why the "not Android" in the thread title by the way? Since when were Nokia ever going to go with Android?


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## TitanSound (Feb 21, 2011)

It was rumoured before this announcement.


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## grit (Feb 23, 2011)

Latest windows 7 patch is failing on a lot of devices and actually bricking others. I think wm7 is dead before it begins http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...go-wrong-with-windows-phone-7-update-does.ars


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## mauvais (Feb 23, 2011)

There could be as many as six upset customers after that.


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## grit (Feb 23, 2011)

.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 3, 2013)

Operation Elop is complete.

Microsoft buys Nokia.


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## weltweit (Sep 3, 2013)

Nokia is well past its best.

Wonder if under Microsoft it can rise from the ashes?

I don't think there are many precedents of companies coming back from big declines though.


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## skyscraper101 (Sep 3, 2013)

They shudda gone Android instead of propping up the fledgling Windows Mobile market. They had the handset expertise, Google has the OS.

Missed opportunity. Big time.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> They shudda gone Android instead of propping up the fledgling Windows Mobile market. They had the handset expertise, Google has the OS.
> 
> Missed opportunity. Big time.



I'd buy a Nokia Android handset in a shot. I had Nokia smartphones for years, before anyone had heard of i-thingies and they know how to build half decent hardware.

Which is more then can be said for Samsung.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I'd buy a Nokia Android handset in a shot. I had Nokia smartphones for years, before anyone had heard of i-thingies and they know how to build half decent hardware.
> 
> Which is more then can be said for Samsung.


Nowt wrong with Android hardware. My S2 took a right battering and kept on going.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 4, 2013)

editor said:


> Nowt wrong with Android hardware. My S2 took a right battering and kept on going.



I said Samsung, not Android. My Note 2 feels cheap and plasticy compared to my Desire HD and the Touch HD before it. The Nokia's I've owned have all felt touch as all boots. A short drop when I got the Note 2 was enough for the battery cover, that feels like it's made from 1mm plastic to go flying off. It's in a sturdy case, but it's pretty disgraceful for a high end phone if you ask me, especially when you compare them to HTCs offerings.


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