# "UNISON calls the police on its own members"



## scalyboy (Mar 28, 2013)

Don't know if this has been covered elsewhere; small demo by UNISON members yesterday outside UNISON HQ, police were called by UNISON but apparently went away after telling the protestors they were doing nothing wrong!

"Members of the University of London Senate House branch of Unison  staged a protest outside Unison headquarters in Euston today. They were protesting the decision of the Greater London Region to annul the results of the branch committee election.
This move by unelected regional officials disenfranchised scores of the union's most low-paid and precarious workers, many of whom were involved in the 3 Cosas campaign for sickpay, holidays and pensions, as well as other University of London staff..."


https://twitter.com/3CosasCampaign


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## cesare (Mar 28, 2013)

> Members are discussing the way forward in taking back ownership of our branch so that it can continue to fight for members' interests, rather than get stalled in a battle with the regional officials who are supposed to be answerable to us.



More discontent from Unison's rank and file. Good to see they're taking action.


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## scalyboy (Apr 23, 2013)

Latest is that some members have left to join IWGB. Unison have sent out letters saying that IWGB "isn't a union" and can't negotiate with management, and could these ex-Unison-members please re-join!


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## scalyboy (Apr 23, 2013)

Has anyone any experience of the IWGB and how effective they might be?


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## audiotech (Apr 23, 2013)

Not surprised.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 23, 2013)

cesare said:


> More discontent from Unison's rank and file. Good to see they're taking action.


What, good to see the union taking action or the members taking action?


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## cesare (Apr 23, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> What, good to see the union taking action or the members taking action?


Both, but mainly the members.


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## Sprocket. (Apr 23, 2013)

The Trade Unions leaderships have become so distant from the grass roots that you would need the Hubble telescope to see what planet they live on.
I was always told the union is it's members. That all seems so long ago.
The rank and file will have to fight tooth and nail to steer any union away from the self centred views of the leaders and their cronies in the Labour Party. 
It's because of peoples disillusionment with the Unions inability and reluctance to stand up for people that UKIP , the English Democrats and the BNP get so much support. Purely because when people have a concern or problem they would like someone to speak up for them. These parties live and breath misinformation and falsehoods, it brings them support from areas that should be fighting for a better inclusive society not an exclusive club.


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## gawkrodger (Apr 23, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Has anyone any experience of the IWGB and how effective they might be?


 
split off from the IWW. Small but growing. Fairly heavy AWL influence I believe (?)

Largely based around Latin American workers - predominatly (maybe exclusively?) cleaners. Have some very active militants (with most Spanish speakers) and, as already mentioned I believe growing in size.

They've just released this letter

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5bXblPVqizeYkxFM1FKNDlpczQ/edit


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## scalyboy (Apr 23, 2013)

gawkrodger said:


> split off from the IWW. Small but growing. Fairly heavy AWL influence I believe (?)
> 
> Largely based around Latin American workers - predominatly (maybe exclusively?) cleaners. Have some very active militants (with most Spanish speakers) and, as already mentioned I believe growing in size.
> 
> ...


thanks gawkrodger, that makes sense, it's our Latin American cleaners who have been most active in fighting for LLW and now the '3 Cosas' - apparently the regional office didn't appreciate this grass-roots activity


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## scalyboy (Apr 25, 2013)

Cleaners right to leave Unison for IWGB? 2 viewpoints:
http://www.workersliberty.org/story/2013/04/16/3-cosas-workers-right-leave-unison


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## scalyboy (Apr 27, 2013)

Unison regional office have basically lied to members, saying in a letter that IWGB "is not a trade union" and that they cannot represent us


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## cesare (Apr 27, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Unison regional office have basically lied to members, saying in a letter that IWGB "is not a trade union" and that they cannot represent us


They're listed as a trade union but there's no documentation uploaded yet.

Here's where you check it out: http://www.certoffice.org/Nav/Trade-Unions/Active.aspx?letter=i


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## scalyboy (Apr 27, 2013)

cesare said:


> They're listed as a trade union but there's no documentation uploaded yet.
> 
> Here's where you check it out: http://www.certoffice.org/Nav/Trade-Unions/Active.aspx?letter=i


Cheers cesare. Maybe the regional bods meant the IWGB isn't recognised by management - but that's a different matter from telling members that it is not a union


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## cesare (Apr 27, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Cheers cesare. Maybe the regional bods meant the IWGB isn't recognised by management - but that's a different matter from telling members that it is not a union


When did they send the letter? To give them the benefit of the doubt, it could be that the IWGB only registered recently otherwise there'd probably be documentation uploaded. Dunno really. It's worth challenging I reckon. There's more about the IWGB on the IWW thread btw.


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## Lo Siento. (Apr 27, 2013)

cesare said:


> When did they send the letter? To give them the benefit of the doubt, it could be that the IWGB only registered recently otherwise there'd probably be documentation uploaded. Dunno really. It's worth challenging I reckon. There's more about the IWGB on the IWW thread btw.


There's two levels of certification for unions, only one of which the IWGB has gone through, so it's possible they meant that.


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## cesare (Apr 27, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> There's two levels of certification for unions, only one of which the IWGB has gone through, so it's possible they meant that.


You mean listing and certification?


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## Lo Siento. (Apr 27, 2013)

cesare said:


> You mean listing and certification?


I guess so, I'm just repeating how the IWGB's status as a union was explained to me, it's possible it's changed subsequently...


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## cesare (Apr 27, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> I guess so, I'm just repeating how the IWGB's status as a union was explained to me, it's possible it's changed subsequently...


Listing's a pre-requisite for certification of independence I think. But the listing's all that's required as evidence that it's a trade union.

The legislation here (chapter 1 about the forming of trade unions) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/52/part/I/chapter/I


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## scalyboy (Aug 8, 2013)

Private Eye story here (9-22 Aug 2013 issue)


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## ddraig (Aug 8, 2013)

for shame!


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## Lorca (Aug 8, 2013)

shame they didn't join the IWW, since i would have thought it structurally more able to cope with a large influx of new members. Could anyone point me to information on the reasons behind this IWW/ IWGB split - their website is not that illuminating. Seems somewhat daft to me to have two tiny syndicalist unions instead of one slightly less tiny.


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## ddraig (Aug 8, 2013)

there is a thread on here about it, hang on


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## ddraig (Aug 8, 2013)

Lorca said:


> shame they didn't join the IWW, since i would have thought it structurally more able to cope with a large influx of new members. Could anyone point me to information on the reasons behind this IWW/ IWGB split - their website is not that illuminating. Seems somewhat daft to me to have two tiny syndicalist unions instead of one slightly less tiny.


 
here, 10 pages
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/split-within-the-iww.297921/


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## Lorca (Aug 9, 2013)

cheers! (though i kinda wish i never asked!)


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## ddraig (Aug 9, 2013)




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## Onket (Aug 9, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Private Eye story here (9-22 Aug 2013 issue)


 
Might be my computer, but that link leads to someone's post on twitter, and the link within that twitter post just links back to itself. 

Anyway, I missed this Unison related farce at the time, but nothing surprises me about that bunch. This is coming from a Unison Shop Steward. I am also in the IWW but don't currently do much apart from read the messages on the email group. I don't think there are any other IWW in my workplace but I have been meaning to get round to building the number of dual-carders with a view to.... who knows.


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## ddraig (Aug 9, 2013)

it is a pic of the story
and the link underneath is the tweet it came from with a link to the pic you can see
if that makes sense


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## Onket (Aug 9, 2013)

Makes sense, but it's not what my computer has decided to show me!


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## scalyboy (Aug 9, 2013)

I would post the image here, if I knew how  ...can we only insert images as a URL? 

There's a post on the campaigners' Facebook group
3Cosas Campaign at the University of London: Sick Pay, Holidays, Pensions
photo of the Private Eye story here

Do you have to be logged into FB to view it though?


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## ddraig (Aug 9, 2013)

you can upload a file with the button next to post reply


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## belboid (Aug 9, 2013)




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## scalyboy (Aug 9, 2013)

ddraig said:


> you can upload a file with the button next to post reply


Cheers, that's been frustrating me for months, must have escaped my razor sharp internet skills  

Having a very irritable day today, just had to bite my tongue when I received a nuisance cold call from TalkTalk, telling me about all the exciting offers I could spend more money on...I explained that my income had recently dropped quite a bit, so couldn't afford to pay any extra...he said how about paying your line rental as one 12 month upfront lump sum, only £120, a big saving on the £180 I'd pay over 12 months' payments...

I said through gritted teeth yeah that would be great* IF* I had £120 to hand...how about a TV offer, half price for 6 months or some shyte, he was f---ing persistent I'll give him that. NOT INTERESTED THANKS 

I try to stay (just about) polite with these nuisance callers, as I think what a shyte job it must be, cold-calling irritable people like me 
Next time I will just tell them to remove me from their cold calling list...I would ring them up now to request this - but the thought of being held in a queue whilst listening to Lighthouse Family or whatever might drive me to run amok, rampaging round the neighbourhood brandishing gardening tools...

Sorry for the derail, I feel a bit better now


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## comrade spurski (Aug 10, 2013)

Ueed to be in Greenwich unison...they witch hunted the branch secretary cos he was in the SP...they took the branch over claiming that the previous branch sec ran the branch undemocratically...they banned branch exec meetings (that always were quorate and took place every month), banned depatmental meetings...which rpreviously ran well, and held no branch meetings for 2 yrs when they previously happened every 2 to 3 months.
So I left and joined unite...nothing surprises me with unison to be honest...they seem to hate the activists more than bosses


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## scalyboy (Aug 10, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> Ueed to be in Greenwich unison...they witch hunted the branch secretary cos he was in the SP...they took the branch over claiming that the previous branch sec ran the branch undemocratically...they banned branch exec meetings (that always were quorate and took place every month), banned depatmental meetings...which rpreviously ran well, and held no branch meetings for 2 yrs when they previously happened every 2 to 3 months.
> So I left and joined unite...nothing surprises me with unison to be honest...they seem to hate the activists more than bosses


Sounds familiar. They are a f--ing disgrace. What's your experience been of Unite BTW?


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## comrade spurski (Aug 10, 2013)

Locally they are active and positive...nationally I think they are another version of Unison when it comes to not defending our pensions, wages and in their sucking up to Labour


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## scalyboy (Aug 10, 2013)

comrade spurski said:


> Locally they are active and positive...nationally I think they are another version of Unison when it comes to not defending our pensions, wages and in their sucking up to Labour


That's the trouble isn't it, branches may be active and supportive of workers' struggles, certainly IME the SOAS Unison branch is/was like this. However at national full-time salaried level, Unison people will scupper local initiatives, despite taking our money every month to pay their wages. 
Hence loads of us leaving


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## scalyboy (Aug 16, 2013)

More UNISON dodginess...I heard that the UoL/BBW outsourced workers were told they had to attend a compulsory meeting today, or be docked pay... it wasn't made clear whether this was a meeting called by the employers, or by UNISON! (Divisions between the two have apparently been blurred, since they now have a senior manager on the branch committee  I'm sure members would feel able to speak freely there  )

Management/UNISON have been intimidating the workforce saying they have to leave IWGB and re-join UNISON as "they are the only union who can represent you" (not strictly true, already IWGB peeps have been doing casework).

Fortunately very few of the outsourced workers fell for this, and I gather that ony around 8 people turned up for this meeting 
Most of the outsourced workers have now left UNISON anyway, over 100 people had left and have joined IWGB, I understand.


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## scalyboy (Oct 31, 2013)

Just heard that Unison & UCU Senate House branches do not have pickets for today's strike, and have advised their members to join the SOAS picket instead?!


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## Santino (Oct 31, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Just heard that Unison & UCU Senate House branches do not have pickets for today's strike, and have advised their members to join the SOAS picket instead?!


The university has recently banned all protests/demonstrations from its property. There was a students and cleaners demo  last week and the police were called as soon as they stepped on university property.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 31, 2013)

Santino said:


> The university has recently banned all protests/demonstrations from its property. There was a students and cleaners demo  last week and the police were called as soon as they stepped on university property.


and?


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## scalyboy (Oct 31, 2013)

IWGB are the only union picketing at Senate House today, as far as I know.


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## bignose1 (Nov 1, 2013)

A couple of contractors in my local spoons just been told off by bar staff. Why....cos they got into an argument about unionisation on their site. Listening from a distance... but kept away.


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## ddraig (Nov 1, 2013)

fuckinell!
does the politics trickle down from the top then?!?


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## scalyboy (Nov 28, 2013)

Uni cleaners strike on day of royal visit 
Yesterday at Senate House, various vans turned away by the pickets. It's a 48 hour strike so continuing today. More here  and Pictures here


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## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Uni cleaners strike on day of royal visit
> Yesterday at Senate House, various vans turned away by the pickets. It's a 48 hour strike so continuing today. More here  and Pictures here


not a lot happening when i was past there at dinner time.


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 28, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> not a lot happening when i was past there at dinner time.


which side? Russell Square had a big picket when I left at 1pm, even managed to block a few lorries from coming in.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 28, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> which side? Russell Square had a big picket when I left at 1pm, even managed to block a few lorries from coming in.


i was on the other side


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 28, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i was on the other side


I think management had agreed to shut that side, as there were only a handful of pickets there when I came past and everything was closed up.


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 28, 2013)

IWGB seem to think they've won some significant stuff in today's negotiations - equal holiday entitlements to directly employed workers, nearly equal sick pay rights. No recognition for IWGB or pension though...


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## Santino (Nov 29, 2013)

> *Balfour Beatty WorkPlace
> University of London contract employees*
> Balfour Beatty WorkPlace has been in ongoing talks with Unison, the union recognised
> by BBW and the University of London and have today agreed improved pay and
> ...


 
All down to negotiations with Unison, of course, and nothing to do with months and months of industrial action by IWGB members.


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 29, 2013)

bizarrely BBW are insisting that they've reached an agreement with Unison - who weren't (to my knowledge) actually balloting or on strike...


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## cesare (Nov 29, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> bizarrely BBW are insisting that they've reached an agreement with Unison - who weren't (to my knowledge) actually balloting or on strike...


If they say they've reached agreement with Unison, they lessen any pressure to recognise the IWGB and Unison get the kudos. Wins for Unison and BBW; and IWGB members still get some practical concessions so less likely to press for recognition.


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 29, 2013)

cesare said:


> If they say they've reached agreement with Unison, they lessen any pressure to recognise the IWGB and Unison get the kudos. Wins for Unison and BBW; and IWGB members still get some practical concessions so less likely to press for recognition.



I think they'll struggle to convince anybody that this one had anything to do with Unison's negotiating skills.


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## cesare (Nov 29, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> I think they'll struggle to convince anybody that this one had anything to do with Unison's negotiating skills.


They probably won't convince the people most closely involved, but unless they kick up a massive fuss and risk losing the concessions nothing much will happen.


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 29, 2013)

cesare said:


> They probably won't convince the people most closely involved, but unless they kick up a massive fuss and risk losing the concessions nothing much will happen.



Yeah but the purpose of union recognition in collective bargaining is that you have people to negotiate with who can genuinely influence the workforce. As it stands Unison have sod all capacity to actually control/demobilise their workforce in the future. It's not exactly a brilliant IR strategy.


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## cesare (Nov 29, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> Yeah but the purpose of union recognition in collective bargaining is that you have people to negotiate with who can genuinely influence the workforce. As it stands Unison have sod all capacity to actually control/demobilise their workforce in the future. It's not exactly a brilliant IR strategy.


It looks to me like a classic case of Unison in cahoots with management to keep out recognition and increase of membership of the IWGB, and position it as a Unison win. The timing's perfect coming up to Christmas when the low paid IWGB workers are more likely to accept the concessions. It reminds me of the closed shop/post closed shop relationship that Tesco have with USDAW.


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## ddraig (Nov 29, 2013)

this ^
got to cancel my payroll deduction for subs


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 29, 2013)

cesare said:


> It looks to me like a classic case of Unison in cahoots with management to keep out recognition and increase of membership of the IWGB, and position it as a Unison win. The timing's perfect coming up to Christmas when the low paid IWGB workers are more likely to accept the concessions. It reminds me of the closed shop/post closed shop relationship that Tesco have with USDAW.



It's not uncommon for companies to try and keep small unions/splinter unions out in this way. But for that to work, you need at least a significant minority of workers in the original union, and you need to avoid making concessions which are very obviously a response to actions by the splinter unions. I mean, they gave in on the day of the IWGB strike (there was no Unison strike to my knowledge), on the exact 3 issues that the IWGB campaign was about. If management thinks they can spin that to strengthen a union whose full-timers are on record as saying the 3cosas could not be won, they're dreaming.


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## ddraig (Nov 29, 2013)

yes but they will try with bluster and bullshit


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 29, 2013)

ddraig said:


> yes but they will try with bluster and bullshit


tbh, I think the present situation quite suits the IWGB. Without recognition they don't get put in the position where they have to put their name to agreements, and they don't have to honour them when they're signed. Unison evidently want back in, so they've got to respond to demands from workers they can't control, and management want Unison back in, so they've got to make concessions to make them look good.  If the IWGB were in negotiations chances are that management would've offered something along the lines of "sure, we'll give you the 3cosas, if you make a promise not to mess us around in the future".


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## scalyboy (Nov 29, 2013)

ddraig said:


> yes but they will try with bluster and bullshit


Hopefully no-one will fall for that though. Unison seem to have spent the last few months concentrating on producing print and electronic pronouncements bad-mouthing IWGB, as opposed to, er, fighting for their members. No wonder the vast majority of outsourced workers left for IWGB. There's also a small but growing number of directly employed workers who've left Unison for IWGB.


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## scalyboy (Nov 29, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> tbh, I think the present situation quite suits the IWGB. Without recognition they don't get put in the position where they have to put their name to agreements, and they don't have to honour them when they're signed. Unison evidently want back in, so they've got to respond to demands from workers they can't control, and management want Unison back in, so they've got to make concessions to make them look good.  If the IWGB were in negotiations chances are that management would've offered something along the lines of "sure, we'll give you the 3cosas, if you make a promise not to mess us around in the future".


You could be right, hopefully you are. There's still the parity-of-pension issue to fight for and I expect IWGB will continue their action in seeking that.


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## ddraig (Nov 29, 2013)

the majority of members probably won't fall for it no
but it will be the message that is broadcast by the megaunion who have the resources, might and will to do that
they'll keep claiming the win and silence dissent up to barring and tarnishing their members who speak out
and what is the smaller union going to do? however in the right and righteous and committed it can't win against the machine, especially one smoothing it over with management

i wish it was different and unison could fight for its members properly and use their resources for that
i wish they would recognise and even say that they assisted the smaller union who had done the leg work and won the fight and we stand in solidarity
but they won't
it is all about recruit recruit recruit and protection of the brand


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 29, 2013)

https://twitter.com/UoLondon/status/406120001809031168

LOL


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 29, 2013)




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## scalyboy (Nov 29, 2013)

ddraig said:


> the majority of members probably won't fall for it no
> but it will be the message that is broadcast by the megaunion who have the resources, might and will to do that
> they'll keep claiming the win and silence dissent up to barring and tarnishing their members who speak out
> and what is the smaller union going to do? however in the right and righteous and committed it can't win against the machine, especially one smoothing it over with management
> ...


Isn't the answer then - at least at Senate House, where the Unison branch have proved to be so poor - for more members to leave and join another union?


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## scalyboy (Nov 29, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> https://twitter.com/UoLondon/status/406120001809031168
> 
> LOL


Some quality comments there:

_"pull the other one you mugs"_

_"As a member, I know Unison are shit"_

_"have fun spinning that you cockwombles"_

LOL indeed!


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## ddraig (Nov 29, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Isn't the answer then - at least at Senate House, where the Unison branch have proved to be so poor - for more members to leave and join another union?


yes


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## cesare (Nov 29, 2013)

> UNISON has successfully reached an agreement with Balfour Beatty Workplace (BBW) at the University of London to increase pay for members who deliver cleaning, post, security and many other vital services.
> 
> On 4 November, the Living Wage Foundation announced the increase from £8.55 to £8.80 per hour. Implementation must be in place by April 2014, but an agreement with BBW has secured implementation from 1 November 2013.
> 
> ...



http://www.unison.org.uk/news/unison-secures-early-pay-rise-for-balfour-beatty-staff

Note the date - they announced this 11 Nov


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## belboid (Nov 29, 2013)

scalyboy said:


> Isn't the answer then - at least at Senate House, where the Unison branch have proved to be so poor - for more members to leave and join another union?


It's usually a bad idea. The cleaners were at least a very clear unit, with there own specific issues. Other splits have tended to be off militant minorities. But doing that just leaves the majority even less likely to strike. So it would actually weaken all workers, even if it would make the splitters feel better about themselves.


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## scalyboy (Nov 29, 2013)

belboid said:


> It's usually a bad idea. The cleaners were at least a very clear unit, with there own specific issues. Other splits have tended to be off militant minorities. But doing that just leaves the majority even less likely to strike. So it would actually weaken all workers, even if it would make the splitters feel better about themselves.


I think they just got tired of using their energy in fighting their own union (who were tacitly opposing the 3 Cosas campaign, refusing to release the results of the branch vote etc). In an ideal world the more active members (cleaners, security) would have remained in Unison but I can totally see why they left for IWGB.


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 29, 2013)

belboid said:


> It's usually a bad idea. The cleaners were at least a very clear unit, with there own specific issues. Other splits have tended to be off militant minorities. But doing that just leaves the majority even less likely to strike. So it would actually weaken all workers, even if it would make the splitters feel better about themselves.


 
Wouldn't say that's necessarily the case. Sometimes a smaller militant union forces the bigger one to get their arse in gear (eg. the relationship between the TGWU and NASD in the docks)


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## Nigel Irritable (Nov 29, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> Wouldn't say that's necessarily the case. Sometimes a smaller militant union forces the bigger one to get their arse in gear (eg. the relationship between the TGWU and NASD in the docks)



That can happen, but generally requires that a very substantial part of the workforce shifts union in order to get the critical mass to have an effect. And even then, in the longer term, the existence of rival unions, if it becomes an established, institutionalised, fact can allow management to play one against the other to great effect.

This stuff is always tactical, but in most situations it's a bad idea for a militant minority to leave the established union when a majority of the workforce isn't going to. In most situations just means be wary as a starting point, because there are significant risks involved. It doesn't mean oppose in all situations.


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## belboid (Nov 29, 2013)

Lo Siento. said:


> Wouldn't say that's necessarily the case. Sometimes a smaller militant union forces the bigger one to get their arse in gear (eg. the relationship between the TGWU and NASD in the docks)


NASD! That's going back a bit. 

+ what Nigel said


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 30, 2013)

Nigel Irritable said:


> That can happen, but generally requires that a very substantial part of the workforce shifts union in order to get the critical mass to have an effect. And even then, in the longer term, the existence of rival unions, if it becomes an established, institutionalised, fact can allow management to play one against the other to great effect.
> 
> This stuff is always tactical, but in most situations it's a bad idea for a militant minority to leave the established union when a majority of the workforce isn't going to. In most situations just means be wary as a starting point, because there are significant risks involved. It doesn't mean oppose in all situations.


Heh, I just got Trots on syndicalism double-teamed  
I don't totally disagree and I've always joined the majority union at my workplace. That said, I don't think being members of different unions cuts you off from other workers, just from the structures of the other unions (which most workers don't use anyway)


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## Lo Siento. (Nov 30, 2013)

belboid said:


> NASD! That's going back a bit.
> 
> + what Nigel said



Amalgamated the year before I was born! (Weirdly enough most of the trots joined it...)


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## jessop (Jan 21, 2014)

I am no longer surprised at anything Unison does or doesn't do! Actually that's not quite true. I would be amazed if it actually represenred the people who are Dave Prentis £90,000 a year!


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## Onket (Jan 21, 2014)

After giving them chance after chance I think this is the year I may finally leave and join another union.


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## Santino (Mar 24, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...racts-universities-documents-services-workers



> The 3Cosas workers were members of the Senate House branch of Unison. Yet according to the report's author, the central university's head of HR, Kim Frost: "While Unison broadly supports the aims of the TC [Tres Cosas] campaign, they have distanced themselves as a union from the manner in which it is conducted." He means the "noisy demonstrations" put on by the cleaners, with drums and whistles and dancing.
> 
> But Unison officials were doing more than just distancing themselves. They were apparently consulting with the university management on how to shut the cleaners up. The paper records that union reps "have suggested in meetings with me that if the university conceded some ground, Unison would be better able to counter the TC campaign".
> 
> What leaps out is the word "counter". According to this document, Unison representatives are looking for ammunition to fight the people they are being paid to represent. And how do they plan to do that? "Unison have suggested that … conceding an extra day's leave could suffice" – even while their own members are fighting for equal holidays, sick pay and pensions.


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## scalyboy (Mar 25, 2014)

Shameless!


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 25, 2014)

More Unison/Cofely bollocks. Mr. Stephen J. Baker is either a liar, or knows very little about industrial relations law. In either case, Unison could quite easily put him right, by pointing out that voluntary recognition agreements are not legally binding.


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## ddraig (Mar 25, 2014)

glad i got out 
no shame


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## ddraig (Mar 25, 2014)

no fucking shit! 


> Here in the university's own words, is the basic problem with outsourcing. Where there were two parties, a third has now inserted itself – and is demanding a cut just for being there.


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## scalyboy (Mar 26, 2014)

IWGB response to Senate House UNISON claims of support for outsourced workers


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## scalyboy (Jun 5, 2014)

More IWGB action at Senate House.


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## scalyboy (Jun 25, 2014)

Heard that IWGB have already taken on members' cases (grievances, disciplinaries) and in some cases won them, despite some staff's fears that the University management would refuse to deal with IWGB, as not recognised. In fact, and as the law states, it is quite legitimate to be accompanied or represented by a union offical, whether or not that union is recognised. And management are seemingly aware of the law in this regard, and so have not been obstructive.

It has been noted that these cases are the first to have been brought for a year or so - because prior to IWGB, Unison were not taking any on cases (i.e. not assisting or representing their own members, who had need of such help).


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## scalyboy (Jun 25, 2014)

Nick Cohen on University of London cleaners' campaign: "Their achievement is all the more remarkable because their own union, Unison, did not support them"


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## Voley (Jun 25, 2014)

Onket said:


> After giving them chance after chance I think this is the year I may finally leave and join another union.


I've just left. Not sure where to go next tbh but my lot are just so inept I can't be doing with them any more.


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## scalyboy (Jun 26, 2014)

Voley said:


> I've just left. Not sure where to go next tbh but my lot are just so inept I can't be doing with them any more.


ABU, anyone but Unison! 
I did think it was just our branch who were piss-poor, but I recently heard of another branch where they'd let down their members. It may be a London regional problem? If so it goes back a while, cos I remember an ex-colleague years ago who was being victimized and bullied (and who was eventually forced to leave), the salaried Unison bod from regional office remarked to us that management 'had a point' and that there was 'no smoke without fire' 
Unbelievable.


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## scalyboy (Jun 26, 2014)

scalyboy said:


> Heard that IWGB have already taken on members' cases (grievances, disciplinaries) and in some cases won them, despite some staff's fears that the University management would refuse to deal with IWGB, as not recognised. In fact, and as the law states, it is quite legitimate to be accompanied or represented by a union offical, whether or not that union is recognised. And management are seemingly aware of the law in this regard, and so have not been obstructive.


Just wanted to add that over the past year or two, Unison have been scaremongering staff by claiming *quite falsely* that they are the only union who can help, and that management will not deal with IWGB or Unite.


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## Onket (Jun 26, 2014)

Voley said:


> I've just left. Not sure where to go next tbh but my lot are just so inept I can't be doing with them any more.


Unite and/or GMB in order to come out on the 10th July I spose.


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## ddraig (Jun 26, 2014)

Cardiff branch are shit too, left years ago


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## Voley (Jun 26, 2014)

Onket said:
			
		

> Unite and/or GMB in order to come out on the 10th July I spose.



I was in the GMB a few years ago and the rep we had was probably the best I've come across. I'll have a look at their site and see what they're involved in these days.


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## Onket (Jun 27, 2014)

The GMB are terrible in my workplace, and Unite almost non-existent. Hope you've got more choice.


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## Voley (Jun 27, 2014)

Onket said:


> The GMB are terrible in my workplace, and Unite almost non-existent. Hope you've got more choice.


All very hit and miss, choosing a union, isn't it? Whoever I go for 'almost non-existent' is going to be the norm as hardly anyone's in a union at my place.


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## Onket (Jun 27, 2014)

Me & a couple of other stewards/activists were considering joining Unite and trying to build pretty much from scratch. Probably would already have tried to make a start if there wasn't constantly other stuff going on. Restructuring, attacks on T&Cs, bullying etc etc.


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## purenarcotic (Jun 28, 2014)

This thread seems as good as any to ask this (what I hope isn't too stupid) a question.  I am a member of Unison (who have called for strike action for LA and school support staff on the 10th July) and I'm currently doing some sessional work for a charity (I am invoicing them for my hours so basically self employed).  Does the strike apply to me?  Can I strike?  I don't want to scab but not 100% sure what the protocol is.

Sorry if I sound like an idiot and this is really obvious but I've never been in this position before.


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## ddraig (Jun 28, 2014)

purenarcotic said:


> This thread seems as good as any to ask this (what I hope isn't too stupid) a question.  I am a member of Unison (who have called for strike action for LA and school support staff on the 10th July) and I'm currently doing some sessional work for a charity (I am invoicing them for my hours so basically self employed).  Does the strike apply to me?  Can I strike?  I don't want to scab but not 100% sure what the protocol is.
> 
> Sorry if I sound like an idiot and this is really obvious but I've never been in this position before.


not a stupid question
do you know if the charity recognises the unison?
do you work at a place where others will be on strike?
would you be expected to do their work/ more than your usual work and workload?
you can strike if so, on basis of not wanting to cross a picket line and/or do the work of those striking

one difficulty is that you'd have to work the pay and take it off your invoice

i am on secondment and work from home but won't work that day


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## purenarcotic (Jun 28, 2014)

ddraig said:


> not a stupid question
> do you know if the charity recognises the unison?
> do you work at a place where others will be on strike?
> would you be expected to do their work/ more than your usual work and workload?
> ...



The charity recognises Unite, I don't think they recognise Unison.  As far as I am aware nobody else would be striking as they don't belong to Unison and I don't think many are unionised at all tbh. I wouldn't have to do their work and vice versa as we carry our own case loads.  If a crisis for one of my cases cropped up then I suppose they'd have to manage it but that could happen if I / they were on leave or sick and there's no way of predicting that that would even happen iyswim.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 28, 2014)

ddraig said:


> not a stupid question
> do you know if the charity recognises the unison?
> do you work at a place where others will be on strike?
> would you be expected to do their work/ more than your usual work and workload?
> ...



Broadly, that.

If your workplace is somewhere where most of the staff are going to be on strike, then there may be a picket line.

If you're not employed by the same employer, it gets difficult (I have posted about this situation before, and not sure anyone came up with any definitive advice other than "don't cross a picket line" which I would not have done anyway.  I used to be seconded to a client local authority 2 or 3 days a week but was employed by a private company, therefore it wasn't my dispute.)

If you're self employed, you ought to have some control over when you work - can you just say you're not available on the day/s in question?   Since (in the role above) I was on fairly flexible part time hours, I managed to change my days that week without anyone really noticing.

In your circumstances, I'd be highly uncomfortable with the idea of crossing a picket line (even a virtual one) - if you're employed by an organisation that's not part of this action, it's not your dispute, but if you were to work in a place where staff are on strike then you're getting involved - and quite apart from your conscience, it could affect future relationships with the client's own staff.  And if the (client) bosses want you to cover in any way for striking colleagues, they can fuck off.

However, if you're not working at somewhere in the sector that's striking and just happen to be in the same union as one where there is a strike, then you're not really involved at all.


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## purenarcotic (Jun 28, 2014)

The organisation has nothing to do with the dispute; it's third sector, receives no LA / government funding and although we used to, we don't currently provide any services to schools (who are affected).  I just so happen to be a member of Unison which makes me think your last line is what applies to me.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 28, 2014)

purenarcotic said:


> The organisation has nothing to do with the dispute; it's third sector, receives no LA / government funding and although we used to, we don't currently provide any services to schools (who are affected).  I just so happen to be a member of Unison which makes me think your last line is what applies to me.



That sounds reasonable.  I'm fairly sure it's illegal (quite apart from unlikely to get support of members) for a union to go for industrial action across all its members irrespective of employer.

For example, if ASLEF / RMT had a dispute with London Underground, then rail staff working for Southern Trains would not come out on strike as well.  Southern staff might be asked to contribute towards a fighting fund, might go along to a picket line to express solidarity (although doing so in large numbers might be legally dodgy as 'secondary picketing') and their solidarity might extend to refusing to work rest days to run extra trains during an underground strike) but could not take industrial action against their employer.

If that's more like your situation, then you'd be doing nothing wrong by continuing to work as normal.


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## ddraig (Jun 28, 2014)

e2a to pn
yeah, most likely doesn't apply to you then


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## purenarcotic (Jun 29, 2014)

Okay, will go in to work on the 10th in that case.  Thanks both, much appreciated.


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## existentialist (Jun 29, 2014)

I'm a UNISON member who is currently in a "restructuring" process with my employer, but off sick with work-related stress. I'd quite like to go onto the picket line on 10th July (I voted to strike), but I suspect that picketing when you're on the sick is probably dodgy


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## ddraig (Jun 30, 2014)

so  
looks like i have a confusing issue too!
i am a GMB member and voted to strike but currently on secondment and doesn't look like current colleagues are striking or even know much about it next week.
not sure, even though in the same area of work, whether the strike applies to me this time.

obviously i still want to stand up for my pay and conditions in my normal role that i may have to go back to and won't cross a picket line real or virtual.
have sought clarification from boss and branch but thoughts welcome! ta


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## Onket (Jun 30, 2014)

Why wouldn't it apply to you, ddraig? If you are with the same employer then it certainly does.


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## cesare (Jun 30, 2014)

If you're entitled to vote the strike applies to you.


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## ddraig (Jun 30, 2014)

ta! it appears all but one of my current colleagues "don't know" or won't be striking 
e2a for clarity it is not the same employer, would name them as someone would probably know the answer but well, ya know...

the branch may be unaware of my secondment and sent out ballot as routine i spose
would prefer to lose days pay than risk being on wrong side of picket line, virtual or not


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## teqniq (Dec 11, 2015)

More dodgy goings on

Unison caught out on tape



> SERIOUS turmoil among the brothers and sisters at Unison is threatening to undermine the election of the new general secretary.
> 
> Senior officials at the public service union were secretly taped plotting to secure another five years at the top for long-term incumbent Dave Prentis, in what appears to be a blatant breach of election rules that prohibit officials using union time, money or resources on behalf of any one candidate.
> 
> Linda Perks, Unison’s London regional secretary, is clearly heard slagging off Prentis’s three rivals – Roger Bannister, John Burgess and Heather Wakefield. She says: “This is one of the toughest elections that Dave has had to fight and it is very important that Dave is delivered… I have said before that not one of the others is capable of running the union, quite frankly.”...


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## Santino (Aug 19, 2020)

Bumping this to draw attention to planned redundancies for cleaners at the University of London:









						We are not disposable! No to redundancies at the University of London!
					

The University of London is planning to make eight cleaners redundant. Email the management and trustees to tell them to reverse the decision!  The university has decided to change the scope of the cleaning contract prior to in-housing cleaners in November. This decision, which lacks any...



					actionnetwork.org
				




You can write to the University via that link to add your support.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2020)

Santino said:


> Bumping this to draw attention to planned redundancies for cleaners at the University of London:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Letter added


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