# Sex Education



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

Just read this and am inclined to agree:
Sex education is not relevant to pupils' lives, says report
It's all biology and dire warnings about STDS and pregnancy. Very little about how complicated and confusing sexual and romantic feelings are and also how sexual exploitation can occur in young people who know so very little how to navigate sexuality. We're rubbish at it as adults, so how can we educate young people 'correctly'?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

The lead researcher has an unfortunate name for such a study though - Pandora Pound


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

sex education in this country is dire.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> sex education in this country is dire.


not just the uk though, ten countries were studied - the others were USA, Iran, Japan, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand, Canada, Brazil and Sweden.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

Sounds like a good start would be to set up a division of teachers who are seperate from the schools who go in to teach SRE. Single sex classes also.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

imo single sex classes help no one


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 13, 2016)

Mixed classes but with added facilities for one on one sessions for privacy?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> imo single sex classes help no one


I would say that for anything other than this. I just think it's all very embarrassing at school age and it might be easier to ask questions in single sex groups.

Maybe a mixture of classes - some single sex, some mixed?


----------



## Mation (Sep 13, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Mixed classes but with added facilities for one on one sessions for privacy?


One on one sex education sessions with a teacher. I don't think that's going to fly, tbh!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 13, 2016)

Mation said:


> One on one sex education sessions with a teacher. I don't think that's going to fly, tbh!



I was thinking along the lines access to some sort of counsellor or health worker.

Delicate matters along these lines need proper professionals. A teacher is already juggling  too many roles.


----------



## Mation (Sep 13, 2016)




----------



## emanymton (Sep 13, 2016)

Another guardian article

Sex education in schools is inadequate, say MPs

A lot of unpleasant reading, but this really struck me for some reason. I think it's just the shows that sexual harassment has an impact beyond the effect on the immediate victims and serves to intimidate girls into keeling quiet.



> Research by Girlguiding in 2015 shows that 59% of girls have experienced sexual harassment at school and 75% say anxiety about it negatively affects their lives, including thinking twice about raising their hands in class.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

my problem with single sex education is that the classes dont hear about or get feedback from the others, it's almost as if it's not worth teaching anyone about other people, only themselves, neither side knows what the other has been told

it's more about normalising the conversations around sex

how the fuck are these kids supposed to communicate about a subject they have had segregated classes for - segregation is part of the problem it's not like sex doesnt affect everyone


----------



## Saffy (Sep 13, 2016)

I sat in on the sex education which was delivered to my class and the video was really dated, remember the pop group Cleopatra? Yeah well they were in it.

The classes were separated into boys and girls but the teachers did show each group the other video too.
I was really surprised about the questions the children asked, mostly about the biology of having twins.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2016)

I think they did it quite well at my school. I suppose we were around 13 or 14 years old, mid-90s era, and it was part of human Biology, mixed sex class.

From what I recall it didn't descend into giggling and embarrassment and it was pretty light hearted. Most of us knew the basics of it anyway and it wasn't done in some dumbed down kiddie way. Just practical stuff like the science of reproduction, the stages of pregnancy in humans, contraception, the reproductive organs of males and females. We learned about how to deal with condoms safely, watched a video on giving birth, discussed sex in the context of relationships and fun. Nothing was particularly shocking or anything.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

you were lucky.

we never even got told about consent :')


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2016)

I went to an all boys school. They put a condom on a bannana in science class. Mr. Taylor admirably kept a straight face while doing it (i did not, was lolling hard). Pro tip, pinch the end slightly so there's room for your semen. Thats about it. Good training for the real world eh.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

Saffy said:


> I sat in on the sex education which was delivered to my class and the video was really dated, remember the pop group Cleopatra? Yeah well they were in it.
> 
> The classes were separated into boys and girls but the teachers did show each group the other video too.
> I was really surprised about the questions the children asked, mostly about the biology of having twins.




liked for cleopatra


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2016)

cummin atchya


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

literally.

in the face


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 13, 2016)

Like most things in UK education it has been messed with to a ridiculous extent by policy makers (Section 28 for starters) and now is subject to the personal whims of the Academy demi gods.  It also has to take place in a wider social context which is pretty contradictory, prudish etc.  For example a recent tabloid ran a story about a 'pervert taking photos up women's skirts' and another about how woman at some event were now wearing very split dresses alongside photos of the same.  There is little training for teachers and it takes one with the right attitude to do it well.  There is also the fear factor - 'what would the Daily Mail make of this'.  You have to be ready to answer any and all questions and with the easy access to porn these questions are likely to be a lot more varied than in the past where the underwear page of your Mums club book was as racy as it got.  This means that approved materials are often used - learning packs and videos - which work on a one size fits all and can be outdated or somewhat coy depending on who is in charge.  If we taught in a more holistic, less exam factory way there would be no need for a flashing headline 'Sex Ed' session as human sexuality and relationships would be explored as part of a whole learning experience and placed into more naturally occurring contexts.  But this needs well trained teachers who are treated as professionals and who have the freedom to be responsive to their students needs as groups or individuals.  They need to have time to get to know their students and to build up a trusting relationship where students feel free to ask any questions and teachers feel free to answer those questions and have access to good quality materials and training.  Under the current regime this is going to be the exception rather than the rule.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

Our biology teacher told us about sex and contraception. She had a tray full of different kinds of contraception, which includes a cap, which she admitted was an old one of hers.
Bad mistake.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

oh jesus OU


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

I reckon I could teach kids about sex pretty well cus I can have straight up conversations about truffle butter. 

(dont googles that if yer at work btw)


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 13, 2016)




----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

I aint watching that because I think that dude is a massive prick.

should be in the tower for treason.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 13, 2016)

Is that that bloke from the labour party?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2016)

unlike Owen Smith (who he does resemble) he makes the jokes rather than being one


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

Chilli.s said:


> Is that that bloke from the labour party?


Unfunny comedian John Oliver with an inexplicably popular TV show in America.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 13, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I went to an all boys school. They put a condom on a bannana in science class. Mr. Taylor admirably kept a straight face while doing it (i did not, was lolling hard). Pro tip, pinch the end slightly so there's room for your semen. Thats about it. Good training for the real world eh.


Nudge-nudge, wink-wink, _we're all men of the world here aren't we lads._


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> Nudge-nudge, wink-wink, _we're all men of the world here aren't we lads._


I can only imagine what sex ed is like in ireland. Tell us.


----------



## QOTH (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Our biology teacher told us about sex and contraception. She had a tray full of different kinds of contraception, which includes a cap, which she admitted was an old one of hers.
> Bad mistake.



My biology teacher had kept her placenta for educational purposes. She'd had it preserved in formaldehyde and it was kept in a jar in the lab.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

QOTH said:


> My biology teacher had kept her placenta for educational purposes. She'd had it preserved in formaldehyde and it was kept in a jar in the lab.


We had another biology teacher, Mr Luxton who did the same with his daughter's placenta. The poor lass, Pippa, was in my brother's class and wasn't best pleased with her dad about it. She always looked red faced as if the embarrassment was permanent.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 13, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I can only imagine what sex ed is like in ireland. Tell us.


I have no idea what it's like now, but we got the biological basics in Intermediate Certificate science.

Everything else was in the religion classes. The teacher for one of those was an officer in the FCA (Irish TA) and he made us watch this TV movie about date rape from the victim's point of view (a message all groups of teenage boys need to hear); then he got replaced by this demented anti-abortion woman who played us this audio tape from an American preacher who denounced the sexual innuendo in Meatloaf's "Two out of three ain't bad".

If you didn't laugh, you'd cry.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

All kids should be made to read this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00TOOSBWW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

yous went to some fucked up schools.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> my problem with single sex education is that the classes dont hear about or get feedback from the others, it's almost as if it's not worth teaching anyone about other people, only themselves, neither side knows what the other has been told
> 
> it's more about normalising the conversations around sex
> 
> how the fuck are these kids supposed to communicate about a subject they have had segregated classes for - segregation is part of the problem it's not like sex doesnt affect everyone


Actually you are right. It should be normal and so yeah - mixed classes.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Our biology teacher told us about sex and contraception. She had a tray full of different kinds of contraception, which includes a cap, which she admitted was an old one of hers.
> Bad mistake.




If the cap fits, wear it.









Why don't parents teach their kids about this stuff? We've told BB1 all about it, really wasn't embarrassing in the slightest.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> All kids should be made to read this:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00TOOSBWW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1


i am not sure that forcing people to read books leads to the desired results. tbh there are many books i was supposed to read at school i steadfastly refused to, on the basis of the coercion involved.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

And the more I think about it, the more wrong-headed single sex classes are. We all need to know about each other rather then men and women being like separate species.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2016)

Mrs Miggins said:


> And the more I think about it, the more wrong-headed single sex classes are. We all need to know about each other rather then men and women being like separate species.


so you're suggesting some sort of group activity in a mixed-sex class then.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> so you're suggesting some sort of group activity in a mixed-sex class then.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

it shouldnt be something that's so embarrassing to talk about, you're going to have to talk about it eventually if not with a partner then with a doctor


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

i dunno if it's a British thing but we can't seem to take such lessons seriously in school - there's a lot of sniggering and not enough listening. this needs to change.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> i dunno if it's a British thing but we can't seem to take such lessons seriously in school - there's a lot of sniggering and not enough listening. this needs to change.


i think Mrs Miggins' idea of a practical has  much to commend it


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2016)

I blame the carry on films


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2016)

and the confessions of... ones. Which never get aired today cos wtf man.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> and the confessions of... ones. Which never get aired today cos wtf man.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

I read once that the infamous Kit Kat Club in Berlin doesn't like admitting Brits cos they tittered too much at the sexual shenanigans that occur there.


----------



## Chilli.s (Sep 13, 2016)

It's what the internet was invented for, now parents and schools don't have to do it at all. 

Every 12yo boy knows about contraception, that's to stop pregnancy, you pull out, she drops to her knees and lols out the tongue, and you jizz in her eye. 

Its unfortunate that sex education won't address the mass of porn that will probably be the main example that society gives kids today.


----------



## trashpony (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Our biology teacher told us about sex and contraception. She had a tray full of different kinds of contraception, which includes a cap, which she admitted was an old one of hers.
> Bad mistake.


My biology teacher was even worse - he showed us his wife's cap. She taught German


----------



## trashpony (Sep 13, 2016)

I think there should be single sex classes for some bits - so that girls can talk about vaginal discharge and boys can talk about wet dreams for eg and mixed for all the stuff about what you actually do, consent and porn. 

Porn, consent and pleasure really need talking about openly - the sexual abuse that teenage girls are suffering is appalling


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I read once that the infamous Kit Kat Club in Berlin doesn't like admitting Brits cos they tittered too much at the sexual shenanigans that occur there.


My question about that sort of place is - do they have changing rooms?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

trashpony said:


> I think there should be single sex classes for some bits - so that girls can talk about vaginal discharge and boys can talk about wet dreams for eg and mixed for all the stuff about what you actually do, consent and porn.
> 
> Porn, consent and pleasure really need talking about openly - the sexual abuse that teenage girls are suffering is appalling


You see that was precisely where I was coming from when i said some single sex classes but actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that these conversations should be held in mixed groups so that every one can start to understand all this stuff about each other. 

Maybe if we started to understand each other as not being separate, it could help stop the abuse. Perhaps. And foster understanding.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> My question about that sort of place is - do they have changing rooms?


You should spend some time in Germany where mixed changing rooms - and mixed naked saunas - are quite normal. I am very much in favour of the German attitude to nudity 

It was all very alarming at first for an English person but it became very normal very quickly.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

The last school I worked at was a boys school, and even though I hated their ethos, they at least had the good sense to get Laura Bates in to talk to them about the rampant misogyny displayed in a lot of porn that they can so easily access. One thing that shocked me is the anecdote she related of a girl she spoke to whose boyfriend choked her during her first sexual encounter, then burst into tears cos he didn't want to hurt her, but thought that was what you were supposed to do. So there is even now more of a pressing need to counter all this with education from a very early age. 
Sexual attitudes seem to have regressed rather than progressed unfortunately


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> The last school I worked at was a boys school, and even though I hated their ethos, they at least had the good sense to get Laura Bates in to talk to them about the rampant misogyny displayed in a lot of porn that they can so easily access. One thing that shocked me is the anecdote she related of a girl she spoke to whose boyfriend choked her during her first sexual encounter, then burst into tears cos he didn't want to hurt her, but thought that was what you were supposed to do. So there is even now more of a pressing need to counter all this with education from a very early age.
> Sexual attitudes seem to have regressed rather than progressed unfortunately


That is a very sad story but I do think we should apply caution with blaming internet porn for all ills. I don't know.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

Forgive me...alcohol has been consumed....

I think the availability of porn is generally a good thing.  I know all about the abuse that lies therein but I do think it goes a long way to sex, in general, being a seen as a normal and good thing and that sexual desire is a normal and good thing.

I'm going to be killed now aren't I!


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

We cannot stop the internet but we can try to teach young people about decent behaviour and the MASSIVE difference between porn and real life.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

It does have a lot to answer for, though of course the appalling misogyny comes from other sources too. 
At another school I worked at, four boys were permanently excluded for persuading a girl with learning difficulties to give them oral sex while they filmed it on a phone. They then uploaded it on social media, so many of their fellow pupils saw it.
Some younger girls were outraged by their expulsion and started a petition to reinstate the boys and punish the girl instead.
How do we combat such disgusting attitudes?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> It does have a lot to answer for, though of course the appalling misogyny comes from other sources too.
> At another school I worked at, four boys were permanently excluded for persuading a girl with learning difficulties to give them oral sex while they filmed it on a phone. They then uploaded it on social media, so many of their fellow pupils saw it.
> Some younger girls were outraged by their expulsion and started a petition to reinstate the boys and punish the girl instead.
> How do we combat such disgusting attitudes?


Fuck knows. That is horrendous. But as I've said, the "internet" is not to blame. It's the attitudes of people that need to change.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

It's not the internet. It's just fucking rampant mysogyny. I really don't know where it comes from.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Fuck knows. That is horrendous. But as I've said, the "internet" is not to blame. It's the attitudes of people that need to change.


The internet fuels it though. When you can find men humiliating women with a few clicks on your phone, of course it has an effect.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> The internet fuels it though. When you can find men humiliating women with a few clicks on your phone, of course it has an effect.


I really not sure. I am wary of that argument because it feels like blaming societal ills on technology.  A technology that is truly awesome and has created so much good in my view.

I think perhaps we have to learn - and teach - how to navigate the quagmire. All humanity is out there. Some of it bad. A lot of of good. This is a brave new world that we have to learn about. 

Human decency does not change.


----------



## trashpony (Sep 13, 2016)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Forgive me...alcohol has been consumed....
> 
> I think the availability of porn is generally a good thing.  I know all about the abuse that lies therein but I do think it goes a long way to sex, in general, being a seen as a normal and good thing and that sexual desire is a normal and good thing.
> 
> I'm going to be killed now aren't I!


I don't agree with you but I can see the arguments for porn used by adults. But when hardcore porn is where children are learning about sex, then it's not a good thing. For one thing, most porn completely eradicates female satisfaction and pleasure.

And I don't think it's a coincidence (and neither do the government) that the increasing availability and normalisation of hardcore porn has had a detrimental effect on the way young men view young women.

'Widespread' sexual harassment and violence in schools must be tackled - News from Parliament




> The report outlines evidence that:
> 
> 
> almost a third (29%) of 16-18 year old girls say they have experienced unwanted sexual touching at school
> ...



In this kind of toxic atmosphere, I think mixed sex education lessons aren't a great idea.

And while technology is a good thing (the internet is great!), it facilitates access to stuff that would have been hidden away in the back of 18+ sex shops when you and I were at school


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

trashpony said:


> I don't agree with you but I can see the arguments for porn used by adults. But when hardcore porn is where children are learning about sex, then it's not a good thing. For one thing, most porn completely eradicates female satisfaction and pleasure.
> 
> And I don't think it's a coincidence (and neither do the government) that the increasing availability and normalisation of hardcore porn has had a detrimental effect on the way young men view young women.
> 
> ...




Is this all so new though? My sister tells me she learned all about sex from watching porn aged 14, that would have been 1983-ish.

And whilst not nice at all, are these figures shocking:


almost a third (29%) of 16-18 year old girls say they have experienced unwanted sexual touching at school
nearly three-quarters (71%) of all 16-18 year old boys and girls say they hear terms such as "slut" or "slag" used towards girls at schools on a regular basis
59% of girls and young women aged 13-21 said in 2014 that they had faced some form of sexual harassment at school or college in the past year
Or would women who went to school in the 80's recognise this?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Is this all so new though? My sister tells me she learned all about sex from watching porn aged 14, that would have been 1983-ish.
> 
> And whilst not nice at all, are these figures shocking:
> 
> ...


i think they would


----------



## trashpony (Sep 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> i think they would


I went to school in the 80s and no, I hadn't experienced unwanted sexual touching and neither had any of my friends. Not in the classroom at any rate. 

I don't suppose the boys at your sister's school were watching Sexy slutty Sadie takes it hard up the arse on their phones at lunchtime either Bahnhof Strasse.

From the report:


> I have had many young girls sobbing and humiliated in my office because partially naked images have gone viral. I have seen girls being threatened with those images going viral if they chose not to perform sexual acts on a boy. I have seen girls have to leave school because of the bullying they received from their naked images going viral. I know of pupils, boys and girls, who have been sexually assaulted and felt too ashamed to come forward and tell an adult.





> Research with 13–18 year olds suggests that young people trivialise and justify violence against women and girls, view some forms of sexual harassment as normal and even inevitable and excuse rape. Teenagers excuse sexual assault and rape in certain circumstances, including when girls/women are viewed as having behaved ‘inappropriately’ in relation to a male friend, acquaintance, partner or ex-partner.





> It became apparent that, whilst sexual bullying was widespread, the young people had previously accepted most sexual bullying behaviours as just a ‘normal’ part of their everyday lives. …The findings from the professionals further supported this…viewing sexual bullying as a widespread problem that had become normalised by young people, and suggesting that the ubiquity made it difficult for young people to identify problematic behaviours as sexual bullying.



That is not like the 80s.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2016)

trashpony said:


> I went to school in the 80s and no, I hadn't experienced unwanted sexual touching and neither had any of my friends. Not in the classroom at any rate.


and no slag slut bit?

that was the bit which seemed familiar to me from the report.


----------



## trashpony (Sep 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> and no slag slut bit?
> 
> that was the bit which seemed familiar to me from the report.


Oh yeah, that bit. But actually, if you read the report, it's being used much more ubiquitously than it was when I was young - it's 'banter' now apparently and being used at a much younger age than it was when I was at school. But you can read the report yourself


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

trashpony said:


> I went to school in the 80s and no, I hadn't experienced unwanted sexual touching and neither had any of my friends. Not in the classroom at any rate.
> 
> I don't suppose the boys at your sister's school were watching Sexy slutty Sadie takes it hard up the arse on their phones at lunchtime either Bahnhof Strasse.
> 
> ...



No, she watched it round her mate Ali's house, whilst smoking dope. Ali's dad was inside for murder at the time and died within 6 months of coming out.

Of course the whole phones thing is a new angle on things, but girls were routinely called slags and sluts and arses slapped etc. That is not to excuse it, it was wrong then as it is now and of course there are extreme instances as you quote above, as there have always been extremes. What you have quoted is certainly not the norm at BB1's school, and I would be surprised if it were the norm at any school. But stand to be corrected if it is.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2016)

trashpony said:


> Oh yeah, that bit. But actually, if you read the report, it's being used much more ubiquitously than it was when I was young - it's 'banter' now apparently and being used at a much younger age than it was when I was at school. But you can read the report yourself


not at work i can't, it's much more interesting than anything i'm supposed to be doing.


----------



## trashpony (Sep 13, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> not at work i can't, it's much more interesting than anything i'm supposed to be doing.


----------



## weepiper (Sep 13, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> What you have quoted is certainly not the norm at BB1's school, and I would be surprised if it were the norm at any school. But stand to be corrected if it is.


My eldest is 13 and there is a group of boys in her year who regularly watch porn on their phones _during classes. _The ringleader is always at offensive misogynistic chat with the girls as a bullying technique, talking about fingering them or their mums/trying to show them porn for a reaction/etc etc. She just tells him to fuck off but I think it's much more 'normal' than you think it is among teenage boys now. That sort of thing would never have been tolerated when I was at school in the 80s and we'd have been massively genuinely shocked at the same age if boys had come out with the sort of shit he comes out with (and they've have been expelled)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

weepiper said:


> My eldest is 13 and there is a group of boys in her year who regularly watch porn on their phones _during classes. _The ringleader is always at offensive misogynistic chat with the girls as a bullying technique, talking about fingering them or their mums/trying to show them porn for a reaction/etc etc. She just tells him to fuck off but I think it's much more 'normal' than you think it is among teenage boys now. That sort of thing would never have been tolerated when I was at school in the 80s and we'd have been massively genuinely shocked at the same age if boys had come out with the sort of shit he comes out with (and they've have been expelled)





Are the teachers aware of this?


----------



## weepiper (Sep 13, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Are the teachers aware of this?


She said the class they do it in most often is a young female teacher and she can't be unaware of it because they're hardly subtle about it but doesn't challenge it. Maybe she feels threatened by it too  other teachers have caught them with their phones out and the only punishment has been minor talkings-to and they just carry on.


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 13, 2016)

I had a rule that if I caught a student using their phone in class I could take the phone and read the class a selection of my choosing of their texts - and if they caught me doing it the same applied.  There will be a school policy on this and if they are accessing such material even on their own phones and displaying it to others then it is going to be against the policy.  It should be in the IT policy and other policies - bullying and harassment/equity etc.  If this is happening unchallenged then I doubt much learning is going on.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

weepiper said:


> She said the class they do it in most often is a young female teacher and she can't be unaware of it because they're hardly subtle about it but doesn't challenge it. Maybe she feels threatened by it too  other teachers have caught them with their phones out and the only punishment has been minor talkings-to and they just carry on.




At BB1's school any phone out in school time is confiscated for one week. They can text outside the school office at break time if they ask permission first, otherwise they must be switched off. That seems to stop any phone based issues during school time at least.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> At BB1's school any phone out in school time is confiscated for one week. They can text outside the school office at break time if they ask permission first, otherwise they must be switched off. That seems to stop any phone based issues during school time at least.


that's wise, but a lot of schools have a BYOD policy - which i think's a bad idea for several reasons


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 13, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Is this all so new though? My sister tells me she learned all about sex from watching porn aged 14, that would have been 1983-ish.
> 
> And whilst not nice at all, are these figures shocking:
> 
> ...


 I went to an all girls school in the 70s, but what you describe sounds sadly familiar. It's depressing how little things have changed.

Your sister must have had access to some upmarket video equipment. In '83 home video players weren't that common and so movie porn was rare and hard to obtain - only in sex shops/specialist cinemas. So if children saw porn back then it tended to be soft porn magazines - nasty sexist rubbish - but not much worse than you see on the front of the Daily Sport these days. And at least the models looked like real adult women, without plastic surgery and with pubic hair, so much more realistic than the stuff I see on the front covers in the newagents now.

Feminism and education is as important now as its ever been.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

I first saw porn in 1983, at age 10. There were plenty of video recorders about.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

It was mostly woods porn that I encountered though - the porn vid was a one off - saw it round a school friend's house - think it was his stepdad's - he had loads of them


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 13, 2016)

Mrs Miggins said:


> It's not the internet. It's just fucking rampant mysogyny. I really don't know where it comes from.


Same as it ever was. Men trying to control us. Institutions trying to keep us in our place. Capitalism trying to keep us insecure so we buy shit.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

the problem is porn as their only visual learning material. you have to really seek out and pay for porn of actual couples enjoying themselves ie: makelovenotporn 

what kids see is the tube sites which are full of sex that isn't the sex they are going to be having. you cant really blame adults for being into fucked up shit, the market for that is still gonna be there. you can blame adults for accessibility though. 

it's a problem with representation which spans all visual media and the representation is a fake fantasy with no lines. of course it's gonna be acted out if it's the only reference for how you have sex.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> that's wise, but a lot of schools have a BYOD policy - which i think's a bad idea for several reasons




BYOD?


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

BRING YOUR OWN DRINKS


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 13, 2016)

did that for most of the 11nth year. Excellent gcse results did not ensue


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> BYOD?


Soz, Bring Your Own Device


----------



## trashpony (Sep 13, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> did that for most of the 11nth year. Excellent gcse results did not ensue


'You are too pissed to work. Go back to the pub or go home but get out of my art room.' <<< Actual quote from my A level art teacher. I didn't get a great mark


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

I'm guessing ATVOD is totally failing... 

that was a really shitty idea.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Soz, Bring Your Own Device




Wow, can picture a lot of problems with that, having trouble thinking of any positives though


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Wow, can picture a lot of problems with that, having trouble thinking of any positives though


The internet can be quite good for finding stuff out, you see.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 13, 2016)

piss poor for kids who cant afford 'devices'


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> I'm guessing ATVOD is totally failing...
> 
> that was a really shitty idea.


Atvod doesn't exist anymore. Ofcom do it now


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> The internet can be quite good for finding stuff out, you see.



During lesson time?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> piss poor for kids who cant afford 'devices'


Indeed, and they can be used for bullying,  such as what'sapping each other in exclusive groups to torment unpopular kids.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 13, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> During lesson time?


Yes.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes.



Just asked BB1, they don't access the Internet except in IT, all the way up to GCSE year she says.

Different approaches.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 14, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Atvod doesn't exist anymore. Ofcom do it now




lol that didnt last long


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 14, 2016)

I too went to school in the eighties.   Slag and slut were commonly used but sexual touching was almost unheard of.  I wasn't a prude, but didn't see a porn video til I was in my twenties.  

Aggressive sexual attitudes are decidedly worse since I started teaching in the mid nineties, and kids of about 13 do seem to think anal sex, gangbangs etc are normal practice for people their age.  When I was a teen, we thought blow jobs were scandalous behaviour.  They think girls having pubic hair is dirty (I even have younger colleagues who think this).  


We don't have kids using their phones in class (until 6th form).  We have a "no see, no hear" policy, so if we see or hear a phone it gets confiscated and parent or carer had to make an appointment to collect it. My old school had more or less the same policy.   It's extremely effective.   I certainly never see phones in lessons and rarely if ever see them at break (more often after school).


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 14, 2016)

Just taking this out of context and leaving it here...



spanglechick said:


> Aggressive sexual attitudes are decidedly worse since I started teaching


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 14, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Just taking this out of context and leaving it here...


Git.


----------



## Cloo (Sep 14, 2016)

The obvious place to start would be kids’ questions, but I can’t see how you’ll get them to put them honestly. Maybe have them email them to a teacher first? Create some sort of anonymous way of submitting online? But I don’t know if that might just encourage certain parties to ask ‘comedy questions’ about ‘what’s wolfbagging?’ etc

I think the thing that people sometimes forget is that just because kids might be exposed to a lot of sex it doesn’t make them any less informed about it. I think there are a lot of very basic questions kids sometimes have, and one of the most upsetting things I’ve heard said a few times when women are queried about early sexual experiences is along the lines of ‘I didn’t actually know I could say “no”’. And that issue needs fighting.

Also I’ve gathered that some kids, especially girls, are frightened and distressed by what they see in porn, not even extreme porn – without context, it can be weird and painful looking. Kids need reassuring that, well, sex is OK. It’s not a show of prowess, it’s not about having a perfect body, it’s not about being more dirty than everyone else. It’s natural and it’s good and should be on your own terms. More than ever, perhaps, it’s the emotional context of sex that needs teaching, not the mechanics.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 14, 2016)

Cloo said:


> I think there are a lot of very basic questions kids sometimes have, and one of the most upsetting things I’ve heard said a few times when women are queried about early sexual experiences is along the lines of ‘I didn’t actually know I could say “no”’.



That's very disturbing and upsetting.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 14, 2016)

SRE education in schools is generally extremely poor - I deliver positive sex and relationships programes in schools and am no longer surprised at how low the level of knowledge or understanding is around key issues such as consent.  Lots of young people have heard of the word consent and have an idea of what rape is but don't know what informed consent really looks and sounds like because they've never had a chance to really discuss it. The level of women blaming around sexual assault is incredibly high and the level of awareness of where young people can go for confidential advice and support is really poor.  There's also a really poor level of understanding of what coercive control is and how someone might be groomed into an abusive relationship or situation.  The level of blame also shuts people down from accessing help - we use a resource where a girl takes a photo and sends it to a boy and it gets shared and when we ask whose fault it is, nearly all the young people, whether boys or girls will say its her fault.  There is no concept that those who sexually assault should have to take personal responsibility because it is totally ingrained that women's behavior is the root of the problem. 

I wanted to respond to peng's point about mixed vs single sex lessons - girls and boys should be taught the exact same info (some friends have told me that the girls learnt about periods but they as boys didn't - wtf? Why not?) and absolutely should have the opportunity to discuss this stuff together.  Initial stuff done separately is useful though - we found when we tried doing it together that boys felt the need to play up in front of the girls and boys also tend to dominate class discussion - we find this from primary through to secondary.  I don't have the specific link but I am aware research has found similar stuff around boys dominating classrooms, being more likely to put hands up etc.  Channel 4 did quite a good show on sex education with a woman from Belgium who was trying to tackle some of the poor SRE we have in the UK - she initially tried to do her sessions mixed gender but ultimately had to separate as the girls were just lost and wouldn't speak enough, even with encouragement.  What was interesting though was after a couple of single sex sessions, she brought them back together and the girls were a lot more confident to say 'no' to the boys, stand their ground and assert themselves.  As with everything, it comes back to gender work.  We will never change anything unless we tackle gender inequality.

In case anyone is in any doubt about what it's like to be a girl in school these days, Plan UK have conducted their first ever report looking at the rights of young girls and women in the UK.  It's very informative:

http://www.plan-uk.org/assets/Documents/pdf/Plan_2016_UKGirlsRights_Report1.pdf


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 14, 2016)

Porn is also completely the norm - I don't think I've met a young person over the age of 12 who hasn't seen some sort of pornographic image or video.  Government seems to have absolutely no appetite to have open conversations with children about porn which is absurd as lots of kids are actually quite confused and distressed about the porn they watch and the language on free porn sites e.g. 'watch teen slut be banged / screwed / nailed' can help reinforce pretty horrible tropes around women if we don't talk about it.  There's nothing wrong with liking hard sex as a woman or a bloke obviously, I don't think young kids being exposed to that sort of language without also having the opportunity to talk about what's healthy necessarily understand that though.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 14, 2016)

it's fucking embarrassing that government cant deal with any of this shit because they are all going ewwwww porn, but it's indicative of how massive the problem is. adults in charge of the country who sometimes fuck pigs and have nazi fetish parties and sleazy affairs cant have a convo with kids about sex or porn. it's a joke.


----------



## Athos (Sep 14, 2016)

I'm a bloke in my 40s, so had an understanding of sex before any significant exposure to porn. But, given that so much of what's on the free porn tube sites now seems so dark to me, I am not surprised that people on this thread who are better placed to comment have noticed the effect on young people. The idea that women's pubes are dirty, that all women like* aggressive sex,  gangbangs, anal and people jizzing on their face can't help but skew kids minds (and set a lot of them up for disappointment).

*or worse:there's stuff now where the usp seems to be that she's not enjoying it at all. Grim.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2016)

Glad I was at school in the mid 90s - the internet and porn were only at the cusp of how it would become, cyberbulling wasn't even a word, but the times were enlightened enough that discussing sex wasn't some kind of taboo that required separating boys and girls and spreading all kinds of misinformation and fear about pregnancy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 14, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Glad I was at school in the mid 90s - the internet and porn were only at the cusp of how it would become, cyberbulling wasn't even a word, but the times were enlightened enough that discussing sex wasn't some kind of taboo that required separating boys and girls and spreading all kinds of misinformation and fear about pregnancy.


they still made us watch Leah Betts video and called all drugs killers tho. No talking to fucking Frank back then Just say no.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 14, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> they still made us watch Leah Betts video and called all drugs killers tho. No talking to fucking Frank back then Just say no.



That is true. Drug education was never particularly great. I don't even remember if they did anything meaningful. Got more insight from my own research, and David Nutt's book than anyone else on the matter.

I could never take Talk To Frank seriously after _those_ ads on TV


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 14, 2016)

The increase in exposure wouldn't be so problematic if we had grown up discussions about it instead of pretending it isn't happening.


----------



## Cloo (Sep 14, 2016)

Society is still built on such a messed up model of sexuality. The idea that menfolk go out and fuck things, so better lose your virginity ASAP or you’re not a real man, that women are responsible for arousing men and the ‘consequences’ and that a good and valuable girl doesn’t fuck are still effectively the basis of mainstream beliefs. Confused further by a superficial layer of ‘girls should be hot freaky sexbots who are up for anything’ just to make it worse.

Maybe all sex ed should start with a discussion and examination of these issues before you get onto the banana and condoms? It would get things off to a less smirky ooer missus start and might actually lead into a decent conversation and thinking about expectations on boys and girls.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 14, 2016)

I am so glad Gromit is ignoring me so probs hasn't seen this thread


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 14, 2016)

Cloo said:


> Society is still built on such a messed up model of sexuality. The idea that menfolk go out and fuck things, so better lose your virginity ASAP or you’re not a real man


look at the persistent jolly courting caveman trope: caveman club woman - Google Search
if we can still smirk at violence and rape in this way, we have a long way to go


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Sep 14, 2016)

purenarcotic said:


> Porn is also completely the norm - I don't think I've met a young person over the age of 12 who hasn't seen some sort of pornographic image or video.  Government seems to have absolutely no appetite to have open conversations with children about porn which is absurd as lots of kids are actually quite confused and distressed about the porn they watch and the language on free porn sites e.g. 'watch teen slut be banged / screwed / nailed' can help reinforce pretty horrible tropes around women if we don't talk about it.  There's nothing wrong with liking hard sex as a woman or a bloke obviously, I don't think young kids being exposed to that sort of language without also having the opportunity to talk about what's healthy necessarily understand that though.



I find written and audio porn so artificial, and I can see through all of its contrivances.

Not sure if I'm an anomaly in this.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 14, 2016)

dialectician said:


> I find written and audio porn so artificial, and I can see through all of its contrivances.
> 
> Not sure if I'm an anomaly in this.



You aren't an impressionable child though. They aren't reading it either, they're watching stuff like redtube or pornhub or videos of girls in their school giving a boy a blowjob who then thinks it's amusing to pass it round the school. Kids don't realise this is the possession and sharing of child pornography which is another issue in the whole discussion.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Sep 14, 2016)

purenarcotic said:


> You aren't an impressionable child though. They aren't reading it either, they're watching stuff like redtube or pornhub or videos of girls in their school giving a boy a blowjob who then thinks it's amusing to pass it round the school. Kids don't realise this is the possession and sharing of child pornography which is another issue in the whole discussion.



Granted, though even when I was an impressionable child, I never understood the appeal. And I'm not even talking about the hardcore stuff or whatever. Just, the whole idea...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 14, 2016)

catinthehat said:


> I had a rule that if I caught a student using their phone in class I could take the phone and read the class a selection of my choosing of their texts.



Seriously? You'd read their private messages to the rest of the class?
Kids must be going soft these days. If you'd done that at my school (if mobile phones had been around back then), there would have been serious consequences.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 14, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I am so glad Gromit is ignoring me so probs hasn't seen this thread


The Evil One - say not his name.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 14, 2016)

dialectician said:


> Granted, though even when I was an impressionable child, I never understood the appeal. And I'm not even talking about the hardcore stuff or whatever. Just, the whole idea...



Okay. The conversations still need to be had though, even if kids aren't appealed by it. Childline have seen something like a 120% increase in young people calling them due to seeing a sexual image they've found distressing or upsetting. We can't keep assuming kids can handle this stuff, it's wrong and fucked up.


----------



## ManchesterBeth (Sep 14, 2016)

purenarcotic said:


> Okay. The conversations still need to be had though, even if kids aren't appealed by it. Childline have seen something like a 120% increase in young people calling them due to seeing a sexual image they've found distressing or upsetting. We can't keep assuming kids can handle this stuff, it's wrong and fucked up.



Oh absolutely, I wasn't laying claim to anything other than my personal circumstances and upbringing. I guess the appeal of porn deserves a thread of its own.

Fucked if I have the energy to start it though. 

How you doing anyway mate?


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 14, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> Seriously? You'd read their private messages to the rest of the class?
> Kids must be going soft these days. If you'd done that at my school (if mobile phones had been around back then), there would have been serious consequences.


Not school - university.  And it was with the agreement of all the students in the class.  I always made an agreement with students at the start of the year about stuff like that - it worked fine. They set their expectations, I set mine and we came to an agreement. I always found that in making such agreements the students were far more rigid in their expectations than I was.


----------



## Cloo (Sep 14, 2016)

purenarcotic said:


> Okay. The conversations still need to be had though, even if kids aren't appealed by it. Childline have seen something like a 120% increase in young people calling them due to seeing a sexual image they've found distressing or upsetting. We can't keep assuming kids can handle this stuff, it's wrong and fucked up.


I was very struck by an awful quote from a 13 yo girl in one survey about sexual stuff who talked about crying every day because she was scared of having to have sex  some day after being shown porn by mates who thought it was all a laugh, and thinking it looked really painful and horrible.


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 14, 2016)

no one needs that level of emotional scarring.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 14, 2016)

A lot of girls get coerced into having hard /aggressive sex because he's seen it on a porn film. They really don't want to but think that's what sex is or how they are supposed to behave I.e do what he wants, make him happy. This isn't informed consent, this is really unhealthy but it's happening a lot more than people realise. Doing a massive disservice to boys and young men as well.


----------



## colacubes (Sep 14, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Glad I was at school in the mid 90s - the internet and porn were only at the cusp of how it would become, cyberbulling wasn't even a word, but the times were enlightened enough that discussing sex wasn't some kind of taboo that required separating boys and girls and spreading all kinds of misinformation and fear about pregnancy.



I was also at school mid 90s and though porn wasn't prevalent, sexual bullying was. Lot's of slag/slut type stuff, but also worse. I'd slightly put it to the back of my mind till now, but I distinctly remember being asked to give out worksheets in a Home Ec class and discovered 3 lads with their cocks out at the back wanking. I was 14 :/


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 14, 2016)

yep. loads of sexual bullying.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 14, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> yep. loads of sexual bullying.



Like branding people "whores" and body shaming others on the nekkid thread?


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 15, 2016)

DrRingDing said:


> Like branding people "whores" and body shaming others on the nekkid thread?




OH LOOK WHO IT IS, HERE WE GO 

you didnt wanna talk to me about your little crusade in pm (NO BALLS)- it cant be that important, so piss off, coward.

FUCK KNOWS how you are privvy to anything to do with that private argument you clearly only heard third party or second hand info. you fucking waste of space. fuck off back to palestine. plenty of crusading for you to get involved with there, you love it so much you whiny little bitch.

so fucking what I called someone a whore when I was having a breakdown TWO YEARS AGO, so fucking what I asked if someones pic was an attention thing (body shaming where????), what the fucking hell is your problem apart from being a weirdo who gets involved in other peoples business because their own life is so fucking empty?

you aint got to me ftr I just think yer a pathetic freak who likes stalking me. probably a chaser.

I aint even encountered anyone as fucking weird as you doing sex work, m8 and thats saying something.

crawl back under your fucking rock, louse.

the prude cant even spell naked ffs.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 15, 2016)

catinthehat said:


> Not school - university.  And it was with the agreement of all the students in the class.  I always made an agreement with students at the start of the year about stuff like that - it worked fine. They set their expectations, I set mine and we came to an agreement. I always found that in making such agreements the students were far more rigid in their expectations than I was.


That definitely sounds more palatable, and would most likely prevent the use of phones, but were you ever faced with a situation where someone did use a phone, and you confiscated it and read aloud their messages?


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 15, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> That definitely sounds more palatable, and would most likely prevent the use of phones, but were you ever faced with a situation where someone did use a phone, and you confiscated it and read aloud their messages?



To be honest it hardly ever happened and if they had some reason to have phone on silent - maybe childcare issues - then they would check with me at the start of the class and the understanding was in such cases that they left the room quietly and took the call.  There were a couple of times when a student could not resist but as soon as they knew I had seen it they just handed it over with one of those 'you caught me' looks and it would be a little light relief - they knew fine well that I would never actually read anything but would pretend and make something up but this was an unspoken understanding.   Once I started using co operative learning methods I found issues like order, focus, self esteem, enjoyment increased to the extent I never really had any problems with students doing any thing other than getting on with their learning and good positive relationships all round.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 15, 2016)

catinthehat said:


> To be honest it hardly ever happened and if they had some reason to have phone on silent - maybe childcare issues - then they would check with me at the start of the class and the understanding was in such cases that they left the room quietly and took the call.  There were a couple of times when a student could not resist but as soon as they knew I had seen it they just handed it over with one of those 'you caught me' looks and it would be a little light relief - they knew fine well that I would never actually read anything but would pretend and make something up but this was an unspoken understanding.   Once I started using co operative learning methods I found issues like order, focus, self esteem, enjoyment increased to the extent I never really had any problems with students doing any thing other than getting on with their learning and good positive relationships all round.


Now that sounds a lot more plausible than



catinthehat said:


> *I had a rule* that if I caught a student using their phone in class I could take the phone and read the class a selection of my choosing of their texts



It now sound more like a mutual understanding, which both parties knew would (realistically) never come to fruition, as there was a mutual respect, but your initial post, that I quoted, had me imagining a teacher attempting to confiscate my phone, and read my private messages to the rest of the class, because someone had sent me a text.

It sounds like you had a great working relationship with your students, but still, I can't envision a situation where a teacher, or anyone, would be able to persuade me to relinquish control of my phone, in order that he/she might read my personal messages to the rest of the class.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2016)

Wouldn't it be a breach of privacy to read out texts?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> Now that sounds a lot more plausible than
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You just snatch it quickly off them and lock it in your desk immediately.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> You just snatch it quickly off them and lock it in your desk immediately.


How, exactly, would you manage that, without getting a punch in the face?


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> How, exactly, would you manage that, without getting a punch in the face?


Cos they're kids. Grab quickly without prising it out of their hands.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Cos they're kids. Grab quickly without prising it out of their hands.


I think a much better solution would be... All phones turned off at the start of class (unless by prior arrangement), and anyone caught using one gets chucked out.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> I think a much better solution would be... All phones turned off at the start of class (unless by prior arrangement), and anyone caught using one gets chucked out.


All phones handed in before lesson would be better


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> All phones handed in before lesson would be better


If they're unable to curtail their facebook usage, then I agree... unless by prior arrangement.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 15, 2016)

You don't need to snatch a phone.  It's dodgy ground, and has potential to go wrong.  You ask for the phone (this is on a confiscation situation, not a huniliation by text scenario) and reluctantly, the child gives it to you.  

If they don't, they'll bring the school sanctions system down on them hard and fast, and one way.or another, they're almost certainly not leaving school that day with it. They know this, so it's not worth much more than a perfunctory attempt at protest in the first place.


----------



## catinthehat (Sep 15, 2016)

Alternatively Faraday Cage.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 15, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I can only imagine what sex ed is like in ireland. Tell us.



Didn't really have it, in my day. Though, my sister was told by her teacher that "french kissing leads to pregnancy" and this was in the late 80s or early 90s!


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 15, 2016)

catinthehat said:


> Alternatively Faraday Cage.


What?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What?



Blocks phone signals from entering/leaving the room. Stops anyone inside getting hit by lightening too.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 15, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What?



A Farady Cage is a metal cage/enclosure that blocks electrical signals from entering the caged enclosure, can be used to stop mobile phone reception and similar. I suppose it would be possible to build schools in which each classroom was a separate faraday cage, I don't know how it would work around windows though. I do remember seeing stuff years ago about building cinemas with faraday cages in the screen rooms to block mobile usage in those rooms but whether that ever happened I have no idea.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 15, 2016)

BigTom said:


> A Farady Cage is a metal cage/enclosure that blocks electrical signals from entering the caged enclosure, can be used to stop mobile phone reception and similar. I suppose it would be possible to build schools in which each classroom was a separate faraday cage, I don't know how it would work around windows though. I do remember seeing stuff years ago about building cinemas with faraday cages in the screen rooms to block mobile usage in those rooms but whether that ever happened I have no idea.


IIRC attempts to block mobile phone signals in cinemas were thwarted by laws governing radio broadcasting.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 15, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Didn't really have it, in my day. Though, my sister was told by her teacher that "french kissing leads to pregnancy" and this was in the late 80s or early 90s!


Well, it does, like dancing leads to sex (or sex leads to dancing, if you're a Free Presbytarian).


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 15, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> Well, it does, like dancing leads to sex (or sex leads to dancing, if you're a Free Presbytarian).



and fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate...


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 15, 2016)

BigTom said:


> A Farady Cage is a metal cage/enclosure that blocks electrical signals from entering the caged enclosure, can be used to stop mobile phone reception and similar. I suppose it would be possible to build schools in which each classroom was a separate faraday cage, I don't know how it would work around windows though. I do remember seeing stuff years ago about building cinemas with faraday cages in the screen rooms to block mobile usage in those rooms but whether that ever happened I have no idea.


How does wifi work with faraday cages? Cos wifi is pretty bloody important in schools.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 15, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> How does wifi work with faraday cages? Cos wifi is pretty bloody important in schools.



I don't know but I would guess it would block wifi signals too - but only from going in/out of the cage so possibly could design the building (rather than each room individually) to be a faraday cage so would block external signals and not internal ones, alternatively could put wifi connectors into each room with wired connections to take it out of the room/cage. In any case it sounds like radio broadcasting rules would prevent any such idea from happening, even if it was technically possible.


----------



## D'wards (Sep 15, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> IIRC attempts to block mobile phone signals in cinemas were thwarted by laws governing radio broadcasting.


Human Rights Act Article 8- the right to communication i think. Cinema chains were worried they were technically breaking the Act (even though that's obviously not what it was intended for, but hey, the right to bear arms was intended for muskets that take ages to load each shot, not armour piercing assault rifles firing  hundreds of rounds a minute) , and there will always be a Lionel Hutz type who'll take the case on.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 15, 2016)

fraday cage can also be used to harden the electronics against an Electro Magnetic Pulse. I believe they are mad expensive though


----------



## Athos (Sep 15, 2016)

D'wards said:


> Human Rights Act Article 8- the right to communication i think. Cinema chains were worried they were technically breaking the Act (even though that's obviously not what it was intended for, but hey, the right to bear arms was intended for muskets that take ages to load each shot, not armour piercing assault rifles firing  hundreds of rounds a minute) , and there will always be a Lionel Hutz type who'll take the case on.



If you're referring to the Second Amendment of the US contitution, principally, it was intended to reflect citizens natural rights to self-defence and resistance to opression, and their duty to protect the state from external threats; it wasn't intended "for muskets".  No more than freedom of speech was intended only for those who spoke in the way that was common at the time.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 15, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> I reckon I could teach kids about sex pretty well cus I can have straight up conversations about truffle butter.
> 
> (dont googles that if yer at work btw)


Jesus. Having googled that I've now discovered what an 'Alabama Hot Pocket' is


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 15, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> Jesus. Having googled that I've now discovered what an 'Alabama Hot Pocket' is


So have I now.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 15, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> So have I now.


Were you eating a cheese and pickle sandwich too


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 15, 2016)

Saul Goodman said:


> So have I now.


here, have some mind bleach


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 15, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> Were you eating a cheese and pickle sandwich too


I was washing down a tuna, onion and sweetcorn sandwich with a mouthful of coffee


----------



## pengaleng (Sep 15, 2016)

blue waffles anyone?


----------



## emanymton (Sep 15, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> Jesus. Having googled that I've now discovered what an 'Alabama Hot Pocket' is


Haven't we all done that?


----------



## mentalchik (Sep 15, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Why don't parents teach their kids about this stuff? We've told BB1 all about it, really wasn't embarrassing in the slightest.




You are assuming that all parents know everything....i was very open about it all (as was my unbringing) but huge numbers of people are still (or so it seems ime)either ignorant or have their own hangups or bigotries about it....


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Sep 15, 2016)

mentalchik said:


> You are assuming that all parents know everything....i was very open about it all (as was my unbringing) but huge numbers of people are still (or so it seems ime)either ignorant or have their own hangups or bigotries about it....


That's very true. I learned the basics in the playground from around 8 years old onwards. When I was about 13/14 my mam gave me a 'the birds and the bees' book she'd borrowed from the library - I remember telling her it was a bit late for that, but I think that's the best she could do.  Best intentions on her part. 

Her lack of awareness of sexual issues was underscored in my early twenties when I was visiting and something on the telly referenced 69s. She had no idea what it meant so I had to - as diplomatically as possible - explain it to her. Awkward.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Sep 15, 2016)

friedaweed said:


> Jesus. Having googled that I've now discovered what an 'Alabama Hot Pocket' is


I've got a slang dictionary and it's full of absolute filth like this.


----------

