# The Last Of Us 2



## DexterTCN (Dec 3, 2016)

Yes


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 3, 2016)

Is it released?


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## DexterTCN (Dec 3, 2016)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> Is it released?


God no.  Don't even know when it's out.

But at least we have the trailer and the fact that it's coming


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 3, 2016)

DexterTCN said:


> God no.  Don't even know when it's out.
> 
> But at least we have the trailer and the fact that it's coming



I saw your thread, and texted my son saying 'Last of Us 2 is released'.

He responded 'Whaaa....??!!'

I realize now it's just announced: but that's good news.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 3, 2016)

The trailer graphics look gorgeous.


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## Ranbay (Dec 3, 2016)

Best crack on with first one then


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## DexterTCN (Dec 3, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> Best crack on with first one then


Yes


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## DexterTCN (Dec 3, 2016)

LiveCast	!!!!  right now!


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## moon (Dec 3, 2016)

Amazing..


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## Johnny Vodka (Dec 4, 2016)

Am I the only one who found the first overrated?   Yeah, the story is good, but the gameplay is too repetitive.  (I think I'm nearly at the end.)  When I say games are too long these days, this is the sort of the thing I mean.


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## fishfinger (Dec 4, 2016)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Am I the only one who found the first overrated?   Yeah, the story is good, but the gameplay is too repetitive.  (I think I'm nearly at the end.)  When I say games are too long these days, this is the sort of the thing I mean.


It should only take about 15-20 hours, at most, to finish Last of Us. It's certainly not the shortest game out there, but it is not long at all.


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## fucthest8 (Aug 11, 2018)

Fuck yes. Dark.


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## Johnny Vodka (Aug 11, 2018)

Looks very pretty/bloody but just the same (boring) sneak around, throw a bottle to distract, stab something as the first game.


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 11, 2020)

The Last of Us 2 story trailer is intense even in Lego form
					

Imagine stepping on that clicker Lego




					www.gamesradar.com


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## fucthest8 (Jun 20, 2020)

It's fucking beautiful. The detail is incredible. The little chips of snow in the paths that you leave, the glitter on icy surfaces.
Completely seamless flow from gameplay to cinematics.
The utterly real dialogue and interaction that we now expect as standard from Naughty Dog but that are one of the main things that lift their games above others.
They're going to have to do something really stupid to fuck this up. They won't.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 20, 2020)

fucthest8 said:


> It's fucking beautiful. The detail is incredible. The little chips of snow in the paths that you leave, the glitter on icy surfaces.
> Completely seamless flow from gameplay to cinematics.
> The utterly real dialogue and interaction that we now expect as standard from Naughty Dog but that are one of the main things that lift their games above others.
> They're going to have to do something really stupid to fuck this up. They won't.


Keep us updated.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 20, 2020)

Is the gameplay any more interesting/fun than in the first one?


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## fucthest8 (Jun 20, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Is the gameplay any more interesting/fun than in the first one?



If that's all you took away from the first one, then don't buy this one.

DexterTCN  I can't say too much.
However ... oh, _fuck_.


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## fucthest8 (Jun 21, 2020)

Well, _fuck_


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## fucthest8 (Jun 21, 2020)

So, couple of pro tips, then some observations. First though, general impression 9 hours in:

I fucking love it.

Pro Tips
1. Search _everywhere_. If you aren't in imminent danger of being attacked or dying, take your time because

2. No, you might not be able to go back. So if there's something that you need to _do a_ _thing_ and you can't find it, do not press on thinking you'll be able to come back. Look, properly.

3. You don't have to kill everything. No, really. Avoiding and running away cost less ammo and are less likely to get you killed. Remember that dropping humans doesn't get you that much ammo back a lot of the time, but think about the environment they are in, is there likely to be lots of loot around them? Choose your battles.

Observations:
The pacing is one of the things I like most. Long periods of searching around, crafting stuff, building relationships. Then sometimes short intense encounters or long drawn out ones. Never know what you're going to get.
Music is ace and used to build tension really well in all the right places.
It looks beautiful. Did I mention how beautiful it is?
It's darker. We all knew it would be but Christ it can be brutal. However, they balance it with other elements, so it's not overwhelming. Well, yet.

If you liked the first one, this really is more of the same, but I mean that as a positive, because what Naughty Dog excel at is the story - and as you can see from the two posts above, this does not disappoint. If you don't like their take on combat and just want to go in all guns blazing, this isn't for you. There's plenty of death to deal out though, never fear.

For me though it's all been beautifully balanced so far. 
Plus you can pet a dog. 10/10


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## fucthest8 (Jun 22, 2020)

Well, _fuuuck._

No, you're crying.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 22, 2020)

Still 10/10?


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## fucthest8 (Jun 22, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


> Still 10/10?



Ah, that was a "You can pet the dog" joke.
Not sure any game should really ever be 10/10 because that would mean it was perfect, which I doubt anything is.
But I'd definitely give it 96% and it only loses 4% because of a couple of random graphics glitches*, plus combat definitely won't be to everyone's taste** and 



Spoiler



me running a baddy down in my boat at like 3 miles an hour should never have worked and was one of the most tragic things I've ever seen in a video game 



Edited to add:
*which affected gameplay not one jot and were almost certainly mostly due to me spinning around like a twat
**and I don't just mean the lack of all guns blazing, just their whole approach. I love it, but I know plenty will find it annoying


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## Orang Utan (Jun 22, 2020)

Couldn’t even finish the first one. Too much sneaking. 
too bad, as it had a great story.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 22, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Couldn’t even finish the first one. Too much sneaking.
> too bad, as it had a great story.



The TV show will be better.    I had another shot at the first one again tonight, but after getting killed a few times, gave up again..  It's just not that much fun to play IMO.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 22, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> The TV show will be better.    I had another shot at the first one again tonight, but after getting killed a few times, gave up again..  It's just not that much fun to play IMO.


it's scary as fuck though and you're really invested in the characters. I just wish you could skip the hard bits to progress the game, like you can with some.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 22, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> it's scary as fuck though and you're really invested in the characters. I just wish you could skip the hard bits to progress the game, like you can with some.



It's not scary at all IMO.  Dead Space 2, Alien Isolation and RE7 (in VR) are examples of scary games.  You can flip the difficulty to easy, which makes a lot of the game just that.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 22, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> It's not scary at all IMO.  Dead Space 2, Alien Isolation and RE7 (in VR) are examples of scary games.  You can flip the difficulty to easy, which makes a lot of the game just that.


I always play on easy and I still can't get past one bit. Scariest game experience ever is the sound of chainsaws revving in Resident Evil 4. Still chills meto the bones


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 23, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> I always play on easy and I still can't get past one bit. Scariest game experience ever is the sound of chainsaws revving in Resident Evil 4. Still chills meto the bones



Which bit you stuck at? I have Uncharted 4 ( got it for free). Always wonder whether it's worth giving that a shot..


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## fucthest8 (Jun 23, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Which bit you stuck at? I have Uncharted 4 ( got it for free). Always wonder whether it's worth giving that a shot..



Do it, still great acting and story but action hero stuff and genuinely funny too. Way more guns blazing. Would be better if you'd played the first three because then your invested in the characters, but it's still a great game as a standalone


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 23, 2020)

fucthest8 said:


> Do it, still great acting and story but action hero stuff and genuinely funny too. Way more guns blazing. Would be better if you'd played the first three because then your invested in the characters, but it's still a great game as a standalone



I don't really play games for the story.  I have the initial trilogy (free) too but they all look pretty old...  Too much choice of game & too little time.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 23, 2020)

I like the Uncharted games. Lots of action and some great set pieces. I often skip story cutscenes to get on with the killing, but the story was compelling enough for me to keep watching. Sometimes a little too much climbing but that’s a small complaint as the scenery is so spectacular


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## fucthest8 (Jun 25, 2020)

Okay, really, really, did _not_ expect this

And, er, wait



Spoiler


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 25, 2020)

just bought it , installing it now , waiting til it gets a bit cooler to start.


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## blairsh (Jun 25, 2020)

After telling myself I would wait a bit and save the money (car needs work) I got done in and downloaded it Saturday.

Weather and being too done in has meant I've only played about 6hours so far. Looks very good.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 26, 2020)

The game has now been out long enough for comment.

Do not read this opinion if you are or are intending to play the game,  it has a MAJOR spoiler.  Do NOT read this if you are or intend to play TLOU2.



Spoiler: opinion



I will not be playing or supporting this game.  Some woke cunt (Druchman) has taken two of my favourite characters ever and shit on them.   The trailers lied, they showed an older Joel talking to Ellie but it isn't in the game because he's dead very early on. You are *forced* to befriend a dog then kill it...wtf is that about.   You killl a pregnant woman, Ellie is the baddy.   I think not.  The start of the game is very open but as soon as something happens it basically becomes totally linear with no option to make morally different choices. 

Around 70% of the development staff at Naughty Dog left the company and were forced to sign NDAs over the development of this game


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## fucthest8 (Jun 28, 2020)

Fucking hell, I'm 30 hours in and it just keeps giving.


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## fucthest8 (Jun 28, 2020)

Wow.



Spoiler



I'm exhausted. That final fight scene ... I just wanted it to stop, wanted it not to have happened, wanted Ellie to have made different choices, but it was so inevitable, so unavoidable. Just amazing. Fucking amazing game.

Edited to add: her face whilst trying to drown Abby. Fucking hell.

DexterTCN, it's just not as simple as Ellie is the baddie, nothing _like_ that simple.
Also, one of the things you mention simply doesn't happen, so not sure where you're getting your info from.

You'd have to work very hard to persuade me that the game was anything other than incredible. Those characters you love? They were never that lovable in the first place. Well, they are, but only from one perspective and this game forces you to see the other perspective. It's so, so much more complicated than you make it sound.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 28, 2020)

After reading stuff on this and other forums about the story (and people getting very annoyed about the direction of it), I'm still surprised people get _that_ attached to video game characters.  To me, they really are just a pile of pixels.  Despite being in control of them, I'm not sure I'll ever care about a game character in the same way as I do characters in books, films, etc.  Maybe I'm odd...  I guess I see games as more a series of tests than stories, despite a drive now to deeper analyse games.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 28, 2020)

I think the backlash is from people who don’t understand what it’s trying to do.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 28, 2020)

There's an interesting article in The Guardian that makes me want to play it a bit, but then I know my ultimate reaction would probably just be boredom and frustration at the amount of sneaking and getting killed over and over again.   









						The Last of Us Part 2 is a horror game and that's why it hurts
					

Its bloody tragedies have outraged some players but this sequel draws unashamedly on heritage horror films




					www.theguardian.com


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## fucthest8 (Jun 29, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> After reading stuff on this and other forums about the story (and people getting very annoyed about the direction of it), I'm still surprised people get _that_ attached to video game characters.  To me, they really are just a pile of pixels.  Despite being in control of them, I'm not sure I'll ever care about a game character in the same way as I do characters in books, films, etc.  Maybe I'm odd...  I guess I see games as more a series of tests than stories, despite a drive now to deeper analyse games.



It varies hugely for me depending on the game, it's just that as I get older I tend more towards games that are very heavily story driven, which are just so much more rewarding when you invest in the characters.

I played COD MW 1 and 2 Remastered and fucking loved them both, having missed them the first time round. They are exciting, breathless, run and gun fests with loads of clever features that make them really stand out. 2 was so good I played right back through it again and then cherry picked missions until The Last of Us 2 arrived. It was brilliant. Did I give a fuck about any of the characters? Of course not.

I've played a lot - and I mean a LOT - of the Long Dark in Survival mode. It is exactly a series of tests to be passed - or not, then permadeath and you have to start a wholly new game. There are no characters at all, just you, trying to beat the game. It's frigging awesome.

But this, this game demands that you bother with the characters. There's really no point if you don't.

It's like comparing some sort of Jack Ryan bollocks (never read one, just to be clear), with Misery by Stephen King, with, oh, I don't know, David Copperfield. Sure, they're all _books _but are they in any way comparable, really? Ones an action romp designed to be enjoyed for the good guys winning, one is an analysis of fame and hero worship with some truly horrific moments, and the other one is whatever the fuck that is about.

My long winded point is treating all games as a series of tests is to utterly, utterly miss the point of many games ... like criticising David Copperfield for there not being enough machine guns.

The Last of Us 2 is not really like anything I've played before. I haven't thought about a game so much afterwards since Spec Ops: The Line I reckon. I'm really avoiding saying too much and I can't be arsed doing more spoilers, but once again Johnny, if all you got from the first one is "too much sneaking around" then you massively missed the point and 2 won't do it for you either.


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## fucthest8 (Jun 29, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> There's an interesting article in The Guardian that makes me want to play it a bit, but then I know my ultimate reaction would probably just be boredom and frustration at the amount of sneaking and getting killed over and over again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a great review. SPOILERS though, before anyone else starts reading it.

All the gamergate type wankers though are just focusing on how they've been BETRAYED or some such bollocks. Just fuck them. I'm so bored of bigoted stupid wankers who can't think their way past their own inadequacy.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 29, 2020)

The Guardian will probably run an article on this once a week until the end of time.









						The Last of Us Part II: the blockbuster game breaking LGBTQ+ barriers
					

The bestselling sequel features a gay central character, challenging the last taboo for representation in gaming




					www.theguardian.com
				




Not really convinced, though.  I'd be more interested to see the reaction if a mainly male audience was forced to play as a gay man.


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## tommers (Jun 29, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Not really convinced, though.  I'd be more interested to see the reaction if a mainly male audience was forced to play as a gay man.



That would be interesting. I saw some of the reaction to one of the women in this being slightly more muscled than a normal videogame character. 

Even writing that feels weird but people seemed to get upset about it.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2020)

fucthest8 said:


> ...All the gamergate type wankers though are just focusing on how they've been BETRAYED or some such bollocks. Just fuck them. I'm so bored of bigoted stupid wankers who can't think their way past their own inadequacy.


That's a ridiculous statement.

The first game was. specifically, about Joel and Ellie.   The trailers deliberately lied about the game and implied further development of those characters.  What do we get?

Don't read this if you're going to play the game or are playing it.



Spoiler



One is killed because he did something we agreed with doing in the first game and the other loses her partner and her kid and is the now the baddy...and plot holes...but never mind she can still play the guitar...oh no...they took her fucking fingers off. the end.   What's bigoted about that?   That's not gamergate.  This game hates those characters and dressing it up as bigotry (in a fucking game) is pathetic and intensely close-minded.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 29, 2020)

Have you played it then? It sounds great to me. Containing all the usual post-apocalyptic tropes on morality, violence and how survival makes us all monsters. Ticks a lot of boxes. Will have to start the first one again.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 30, 2020)

In only vaguely related news, I started Uncharted 4 last night and am getting dull vibes from it - as OU said, too much climbing.  The new Tomb Raider games are much more fun.  Maybe I need to get a bit further in, but for me the tension between wannabe cinema and traditional game elements in the Naughty Dog games I've played (all two of them) is unsatisfying.


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## tommers (Jun 30, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


> That's a ridiculous statement.
> 
> The first game was. specifically, about Joel and Ellie.   The trailers deliberately lied about the game and implied further development of those characters.  What do we get?



Mate they killed Aerith in FFVII. That's when i realised these monsters are capable of anything.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 30, 2020)

Tbf, I think we ought to give people the benefit of the doubt that maybe they just don't like the story direction rather than jumping to the worst conclusions about the motivations behind their complaints. But the sort of plot development being discussed isn't unusual if you think of films/TV shows in that genre.


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## fucthest8 (Jun 30, 2020)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Tbf, I think we ought to give people the benefit of the doubt that maybe they just don't like the story direction rather than jumping to the worst conclusions about the motivations behind their complaints. But the sort of plot development being discussed isn't unusual if you think of films/TV shows in that genre.



I was specifically meaning all the complaints about the sexuality and gender of characters. People can dislike the direction the game took, but that's _not _what the most upset people are upset about.



DexterTCN said:


> That's a ridiculous statement.



See above



DexterTCN said:


> The first game was. specifically, about Joel and Ellie.   The trailers deliberately lied about the game and implied further development of those characters.  What do we get?
> 
> Don't read this if you're going to play the game or are playing it.
> 
> ...





Spoiler



There's plenty of development of Joel and Ellie, but it's done in flashbacks, where Joel is concerned.
He's killed because the daughter of the doctor that _he_ killed wanted her revenge.
That doctor who was going to create a cure for humanity.
If you finished the first game going "yeah, save Ellie, that's the right thing to do" and no trace of "er, but the human race?" then I'd say that's an odd response to it.
She's not the "baddy". To reduce this whole game to "it makes Ellie the baddy" is utterly childish. The entire game is about seeing things from different perspectives and how _understanding _someone else's position can change how you think. When it first forces you to play as Abby, I was "what? No! I don't want to play as her, I want revenge!" ... but then you play as her for a long time and you understand her .. and end up rooting for _her. _The same with the Scars ... sure, they're a fucked up cult with rigid rules ... but they've got kids, they're proud of those kids achievements, they're trying to live in the new world on its' own terms, not just scavange off the old world ... and as the game goes on you start to see _all _the shades of grey, the complexity that gives the lie to the simplicity of a revenge story.
This game does not hate those two characters. (Edited for clarity: Ellie and Joel) They are complicated from the off, both damaged and not at all straighforward. Joel saves Ellie at least in part - if not entirely - because he couldn't save his own daughter. He's happy to murder a bunch of medical staff to do it and say "fuck you" to _ the whole of humanity_. But no, you think he's the good guy.
This game has complex characters with shifting motivations  who interact in complicated ways. The final fight scene is _hard_ precisely because you identify with both of the characters (Edited for clarity: Ellie and Abby). I stopped mashing the button when Ellie started to stab Abby because I wanted _out_ I wanted them both to survive, I didn't want it to be happening. It was literally watching two people that I like beating the _shit_ out of each other, it was visceral, horrible.
That's quite a response to elicit _using a game._
Hence why I think it's incredible.
You're absolutely entitled to not like the direction they took. However, given that you haven't and apparently won't play the game, I'm really not sure why you're posting. You've made your mind up.
Not sure what you mean about "dressing it up as bigotry". If you're referring to my statement about the gamergate wankers, again, I was specifically meaning all the complaints about the sexuality and gender of characters.


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## fucthest8 (Jun 30, 2020)

tommers said:


> That would be interesting. I saw some of the reaction to one of the women in this being slightly more muscled than a normal videogame character.
> 
> Even writing that feels weird but people seemed to get upset about it.



Another thing I loved (I'm assuming it was deliberate, but if not, it still worked!) was 



Spoiler



that the faction responsible for Joel's death are mostly a bit more "regular" looking. I literally found myself saying "well fuck, a bunch of characters that look like people!" 
Everyone on Ellie's "side" is fairly good looking. Most on Abby's "side" aren't.


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## tommers (Jun 30, 2020)

to be fair your write up is making me actually want to play it.  Didn't like the first one and not previously had any interest in playing this one either.


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 30, 2020)

yeh but PS only :-(


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## fucthest8 (Jun 30, 2020)

tommers said:


> to be fair your write up is making me actually want to play it.  Didn't like the first one and not previously had any interest in playing this one either.



 
Well, it;'s only _my_ experience of it, clearly lots of people disagree. FYI I'm the kind of person who tries to immerse themselves in things and suspend disbelief as much as possible in favour of enjoying the film/book/game ... I even had a go at the Tom Cruise version of War of the Worlds, right up until the fortuitous handgrenades up the alien's arse bit, then even _I_ had to go "nope, I tried, this is garbage"


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 30, 2020)

I'm enjoying it, its brutal but not coming back here til its finished , although I wasnt too keen on the first one  , Im enjoying this loads but can only play a couple of hours at a time...


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 30, 2020)

ruffneck23 said:


> I'm enjoying it, its brutal but not coming back here til its finished , although I wasnt too keen on the first one  , Im enjoying this loads but can only play a couple of hours at a time...



I know you said you're not coming back to this thread for a while, but would be interested to know in what ways this improves on the first.


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 30, 2020)

Quite enjoying Uncharted 4 tonight!


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## 8ball (Jul 20, 2020)

Was told by someone that the game is largely made up of cutscenes and I might as well save myself some money and watch it on Youtube.
Is this unfair?


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## neonwilderness (Sep 3, 2020)

I’m a couple of hours in (haven’t read any spoilers yet) and 



8ball said:


> Was told by someone that the game is largely made up of cutscenes and I might as well save myself some money and watch it on Youtube.
> Is this unfair?


Yes, IMO. I’ve only just started 2 so I’m mostly basing this on the first game, but it’s the only game when I’ve been properly invested in the characters. There are a lot of cut scenes, but just watching it wouldn’t be the same.


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