# "kick ass" work culture



## gracious (Oct 12, 2005)

has anyone here actually worked in corporate america?

ive just come over to nyc to work on a project for coca cola, and i am STUNNED by just how keen everyone is. seriously, the coca cola head offices are covered with pictures of the guy that created coke, the first bottle etc etc, you get shot if you express any kind of preference for pepsi and honestly, there is absolutely NO banter in meetings - its too serious to mess about with. 

and everyone seems to spend half their life bigging their achievements up, saying how great they are - and NOONE takes the piss out of that. 

im seriously not sure whether im ever gonna be at home working here... and what kind of a person would i be if i ever did get comfortable???


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2005)

I spent two years working in corporate America. It wasn't the same as you describe for me - but there were two things that were atypical there...

1. Almost all of my co-workers were native Chinese;
2. All of us were academics and/or programmers.

The first I think gives some immunity to US cultural expectations - though they were dependent on the company for various immigration and citizenship purposes - and the second, well, academics aren't given to being sympathetic to corporate culture, and programmers are just basically cynical. (One guy I know explained to his wife that of course he was cynical, it was his job to look for faults in software all day so it wasn't surprising that he did it out of work too.)

As well as all that the company and industry don't have the best reputation with the public - perfectly reasonably - and it's hard to feel like singing the company song when telling people what you do means they start saying "why are you ripping me/my family/my friends off you bastards?"

We did get a lot of corporate propaganda, videos etc, though that in the UK just elicited snorts of disbelief (I worked for the same company in the UK too). The main thing that I noticed was the long hours culture. People would turn up at 7.30am and stay until 7.30pm quite regularly. The woman who sat next to me often had to take naps in her car because she didn't get enough sleep. This was far worse amongst the US-born employees. The Chinese seemed to take a much more reasonable attitude.

In my experience it was the management, sales and general corporate side rather than R&D where I was who were the fanatics. That's all they do. They don't actually produce anything, make anything or build anything so politics, image and appearance are all they spend their time on - they are a professional political caste. I met a few upper managers and they were quite sound folk, no illusions there; it was the people who were scrambling for the lower rungs of the management ladder who were the wankers, and most of them you could tell were doomed to fail, since being a tosser generally indicates that you don't have the people skills to advance beyond a certain point so you're doomed to be frustrated and probably become even more of a wanker.


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## D (Oct 12, 2005)

I've never really worked in corporate America.

I'd fucking hate it.

I used to deliver packages to them sometimes.


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## D (Oct 12, 2005)

And I may one day be in one of those corporate training videos.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2005)

How big is your grin?


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## D (Oct 12, 2005)

FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> How big is your grin?



Pretty freakin' huge.  But they're not so into my hair for corporate stuff, except when they're looking for the "rebel employee" or the "difficult customer" or, occasionally "the wayward child of the CEO" or something to that effect.

Plus I'm 5'2".  And not at all all-American looking.  So, really, I'm useless for most industrials.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2005)

You might be able to get in somewhere to show that they're addressing a really diverse customer base or something. I don't think the pay would be good mind.

It stunned me that they'd spend so much money for professionally-shot adverts that were basically aimed at employees themselves, when everyone I knew was utterly cynical about the whole affair. There was one campaign where they tried to say that there was a corporate value about helping the patient (healthcare-related company). Everyone with a tiny scrap of brain knows that it's not about helping the patient; they wouldn't send round emails telling us all to lobby our congressman to pass bill X which screwed the patient otherwise, we're not thick. They'd play us a video of all these happy smiling patients who'd had their lives transformed, and then ask us to say how we felt we helped people in our jobs. A few of the usual ladder-climbing suspects stood up and said how their neighbours had benefited from company Y's products yadda yadda. Then one woman I know stood up and said "I don't care about patients! I never meet any patients! I just write programs and produce tables! What does this have to do with my job? Why are you spending all this money on videos? What about (employment issues A B and C)?" Cue nodding from 95% of the audience.

The irony is that my girlfriend at the time benefitted massively from one of the company's products and I couldn't even get her a cheap supply.


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## D (Oct 12, 2005)

Pay can be quite good for industrials.

In fact, there's a whole new phenomenon of "corporate theater" that's big in South Africa and that my friend in London is now championing in the UK.


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## sleaterkinney (Oct 12, 2005)

> We did get a lot of corporate propaganda, videos etc, though that in the UK just elicited snorts of disbelief (I worked for the same company in the UK too). The main thing that I noticed was the long hours culture. People would turn up at 7.30am and stay until 7.30pm quite regularly. The woman who sat next to me often had to take naps in her car because she didn't get enough sleep. This was far worse amongst the US-born employees. The Chinese seemed to take a much more reasonable attitude.


Don't they only get two weeks holiday as well?


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## gracious (Oct 12, 2005)

yep... if i move here permanently ill go from 26 days to 17. when i was interviewed they said 'dont worry, they get more bank holidays in the US' well, i checked. its only 2 more days a year, and this week monday was columbus day - and all of my bloody keen team were in the office.


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## gracious (Oct 12, 2005)

and do u know what the worst thing is...? 

"well, we're not the most productive economy in the world for nothing you know"

fuck. right. off.


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## Herbert Read (Oct 14, 2005)

Corporate yanks=corporate wanks


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## rubbershoes (Oct 17, 2005)

gracious said:
			
		

> this week monday was columbus day - and all of my bloody keen team were in the office.




exactly. not only do they have a smaller holiday entitlement than in the UK but AFAIK taking holidays is frowned upon. people routinely don't take all their holiday .


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## icemachine (Oct 17, 2005)

Heh, wow.  Corporate America.  Done it, lived it, loathed it, left it.

I quit a certain humungous IT company last month as part of my move back to Britain.   If anyone wants enlightening on the joys of 95+ hour weeks, frighteningly small holiday allowances, kiss-arse corporate culture, meaningless mission statements...yeah, I'm your man.

Never again.  The money was definitely ok, but trying to have a life around the job was nearly impossible.


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## Mation (Oct 19, 2005)

Was talking about this last night with my Australian labmate. He's trying to prevent himself from succumbing to the work ethic that he sees, in particular, at MIT. 

He says it's common for students there to boast about how little sleep they've had because they were studying and for people to be keen to spend most of the weekend working. 

He also said that they have to have a long weekend per month to force people to have a break, and try and lower the suicide rate amongst students!


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## Belushi (Oct 19, 2005)

I fancy Italian corporate culture, about two months off a year and two hours for lunch


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## Donna Ferentes (Oct 19, 2005)

Yeah! And the "Slow Cities" movement!


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## oryx (Oct 19, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> I fancy Italian corporate culture, about two months off a year and two hours for lunch



Yes. This thread is making me feel deeply grateful for the EU. 

If people want to be slaves to a thankless corporate machine that chews you up, spits you out and ruins your work life balance in the process then good luck to them, as long as they don't impose their utterly silly work ethic on others.


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## chegrimandi (Oct 19, 2005)

Belushi said:
			
		

> I fancy Italian corporate culture, about two months off a year and two hours for lunch



aye!   

or spanish - manana, manana!

Europes the way forward


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## rubbershoes (Oct 25, 2005)

oryx said:
			
		

> Yes. This thread is making me feel deeply grateful for the EU.
> 
> If people want to be slaves to a thankless corporate machine that chews you up, spits you out and ruins your work life balance in the process then good luck to them, as long as they don't impose their utterly silly work ethic on others.



it suits those at the top who generally work hard themselves but earn the rewards of everyone else's sweat. actually that sounds rather unpleassant doesn't it?


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## monkeyhead (Nov 9, 2005)

after working for about 45 years they steal your pension too


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## MightyAphrodite (Nov 9, 2005)

gracious said:
			
		

> ive just come over to nyc to work on a project for coca cola, and i am STUNNED by just how keen everyone is. seriously, the coca cola head offices are covered with pictures of the guy that created coke, the first bottle etc etc, you get shot if you express any kind of preference for pepsi and honestly, there is absolutely NO banter in meetings - its too serious to mess about with.



I'm not really sure what else you would expect working for a company like Coca-Cola to be honest! 

Did you expect some other sort of atmosphere? REALLY?


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## Yossarian (Nov 9, 2005)

gracious said:
			
		

> has anyone here actually worked in corporate america?



Nope, and from the way you describe it I suspect I'd be taking a walk to the clocktower with a K-Mart-bought rifle after about a week.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Nov 9, 2005)

gracious said:
			
		

> has anyone here actually worked in corporate america?
> 
> ive just come over to nyc to work on a project for coca cola, and i am STUNNED by just how keen everyone is. seriously, the coca cola head offices are covered with pictures of the guy that created coke, the first bottle etc etc, you get shot if you express any kind of preference for pepsi and honestly, there is absolutely NO banter in meetings - its too serious to mess about with.
> 
> ...



It's only a project. Do the work, get the money, then you can go home to unionism and the three-beer lunch.

p.s. D: to me, you look just like an Eastern Seaboard urban american...


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Nov 9, 2005)

Where do my sympathies lie on this issue?

A clue: it's 6:50 pm and I'm still at work. Maybe I'll post something when I get home.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Nov 9, 2005)

gracious said:
			
		

> has anyone here actually worked in corporate america?
> 
> ...and everyone seems to spend half their life bigging their achievements up, saying how great they are - and NOONE takes the piss out of that.
> 
> im seriously not sure whether im ever gonna be at home working here... and what kind of a person would i be if i ever did get comfortable??? ...


Haven't ever worked in corporate American, but I've worked in other international settings with multinational colleagues, some of whom were American.

Todally, I mean, like, todally, like, relate to your experiences of people bigging themselves up.  I *did* meet and work with some incredibly nice and talented people, but it was probably half and half proportions - decent, good at their jobs, lovely people : backstabbing, over-confident, under-talented, weyhey look at me, aren't I grrrrrrrreat! 

There was a significant proportion of Americans I've encountered who seemed to spend most of their time office politicking, and I mean they would have put Macchiavelli to shame...  they tend to cover up their own inadequecies by backstabbing and undermining... really, deeply unpleasant stuff...  wouldn't choose to work in an American environment at all, have kind of an aversion to American colleagues now, well, more that I'd start off with assuming any other nationality was probably going to be okay, whereas with American, due to my personal experiences, I'd tend to assume they were going to be duplicitous, arse-licking, backstabbing sneaks, unless and until they proved otherwise.  Americans *don't* get the benefit of the doubt from me, whereas others do.  It was bad enough in an international/multinational setting, to be completely immersed in that would be a nightmare.


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## maes (Nov 9, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> Where do my sympathies lie on this issue?
> 
> A clue: it's 6:50 pm and I'm still at work. Maybe I'll post something when I get home.



So did you post most of your 25,000 posts from work or home?


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## gracious (Nov 10, 2005)

> p.s. D: to me, you look just like an Eastern Seaboard urban american...



how do you know what i look like? 

runs off to check behind the coffee machine - looking for dodgy canadians

its just a project? well yeah... thing is, i have the option to move to new york with my current job, and i was really keen on the idea and told my bosses so before i went there. since ive been and come home, im really wondering how i can back out!


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 11, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> It's only a project. Do the work, get the money, then you can go home to unionism and the three-beer lunch.


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## Andy the Don (Nov 15, 2005)

You should hear about the American clients my wife has to deal with..

Will arrange a phone conference for 7pm, which will last for something like 2 hours & then expect the documents to be turned round by the next morning..

You have a family & you want to see your children, well that's your problem, lets do the deal..


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## pinkmonkey (Nov 15, 2005)

I've worked/still work with US companies.  It's not uncommon for workers to have the company logo tattoed on them somewhere.

The passion for breakfast meetings does my head in too.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Nov 15, 2005)

pinkmonkey said:
			
		

> I've worked/still work with US companies.  It's not uncommon for workers to have the company logo tattoed on them somewhere.
> 
> The passion for breakfast meetings does my head in too.



I've never, not once, seen such a tattoo.  In fact, I'd go so far to say that US business culture is extremely anti-tattoo.


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 15, 2005)

pinkmonkey said:
			
		

> It's not uncommon for workers to have the company logo tattoed on them somewhere.



Naawwww, come on - is there photographic proof of this anywhere?


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## Divisive Cotton (Nov 15, 2005)

gracious said:
			
		

> and do u know what the worst thing is...?
> 
> "well, we're not the most productive economy in the world for nothing you know"
> 
> fuck. right. off.



Yeah, it's like a complete dictatorship of capitalism - a people fooled into being exploitated, all with a large dollop of help from religion.

The lions of share of America's economic expansion over the last ten years has gone to the already rich.


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## gabi (Nov 15, 2005)

I'm working for one of the largest US corporates at the mo - out of London.  This involves constant fucking video/phone conference calls with them, where my attendance is utterly fucking unnecessary as they'll never listen to a fucking word i say anyway.

Most of them are Ivy Leaguers who think they're oh so fucking sophisticated, when in actual fact a great many of them have probably not even got a fucking passport.

My god they can talk shit. I would never do it again, I far prefer the British style of business I have to say.  It's a shame, because its pollluted my view of Americans in general.  'No class system', my arse. They're just more subtle about it.


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## pinkmonkey (Nov 15, 2005)

Divisive Cotton said:
			
		

> Naawwww, come on - is there photographic proof of this anywhere?



I've seen it myself.  Have you ever heard of Ekins?  They work for Nike and have the swoosh tattooed on their ankles. 

I used to see them a lot in South Korea when I was developing products over there.  Some of them were really weird indeed.  A friend who worked there describes it as being almost cultish there.

I worked with another US brand &  I can think of at least three workers that have the company logo tattoed on them.  So there!   

If you still don't believe me, read this http://www.fastcompany.com/online/31/nike.html


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## Yuwipi Woman (Nov 15, 2005)

pinkmonkey said:
			
		

> I used to see them a lot in South Korea when I was developing products over there.  Some of them were really weird indeed.  A friend who worked there describes it as being almost cultish there.



South Korea is not the US.


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## pinkmonkey (Nov 15, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> South Korea is not the US.



They were US citizens, visting South Korea from the USA to develop sneakers - give me a break here!  Or alternatively read the link.

I will try and get pics if I see any.....


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## Yuwipi Woman (Nov 15, 2005)

pinkmonkey said:
			
		

> They were US citizens, visting South Korea from the USA to develop sneakers - give me a break here!  Or alternatively read the link.
> 
> I will try and get pics if I see any.....



I'm not denying that it may happen, but it's not the norm in american work culture.  You are acting like that tattoos are required to work in america. 

My boss would tell anyone who tattooed the company logo on themselves to go get some mental help.


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## pinkmonkey (Nov 15, 2005)

That's not what I meant at all - it's unlikely it would happen outside of the apparel trade, anyway.  But it IS something I've noticed on more than one occasion.  

'Course we get little kids over here who shave the swoosh into their hairstyle, but when it's grown men and women, it's somthing else.

The Ekin thing is very wierd.  It is an extreme of course but it does exist.  It's like you can never leave or something (or get an excellent laser surgeon to remove your tat).

Most people think they're bonkers, yes, whether they are from the USA or outside.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Nov 15, 2005)

I worked for a company that told a woman the day before her wedding that she had to work overtime that day.  She told them to stick their job up their ass.

They also required everyone to be at work 15 minutes early to set up off the clock.  At the end of the day you couldn't shut down until the end of the shift and cleanup time was off the clock.  They got about 30 minutes off each person each day.  

At the time I was nearly homeless so I put up with it.  I was without heat in the apartment I was renting (late November) so I needed to get the heat on.

The company was a British owned and managed company.  In general I'd agree that american work culture is a bit over the top, but I think it depends on the company.

My current employer, let me take 8 weeks off to take care of a sick family member.  They paid me for that time too.  Probably explains why my 18 th anniversary is this week.


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## gracious (Nov 16, 2005)

is this the same employer you were b1tching about on a previous thread?


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## Yuwipi Woman (Nov 16, 2005)

gracious said:
			
		

> is this the same employer you were b1tching about on a previous thread?



No, this is my primary job.  My only complaint with it is that I get a bit bored.  

I have a second job that can be a bit problematic.  

(Doesn't everyone bitch about their job?  )


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## Jessiedog (Nov 17, 2005)

Did two years in New York.

Hard work, fast.

But _nothing_ beats the "work ethic" in HK. The last job I had I averaged 75 hours a week (sometimes 70, sometimes 80,) and I'm talking full-on, in-your-face pressure for all that time - sell, sell, sell, make money, make money, make money. Ten minutes lunch break at the desk. I lasted four months.

Now. I have another job.

Here we fuckin' go again.

 

 

Woof


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## Concrete Meadow (Nov 17, 2005)

Yes. And I've known a few Hongkongers who work not one, but _two_ such jobs! 

A family friend who followed the HK "work ethic" finally collapsed with heart problems a few years ago [he was only in his late 30s]. When he got out of the hospital, his boss greeted him the option of "exit or 50% pay cut." The poor fellow opted for the latter 

NYC's office culture seems a walk in the park after hearing his story.

Life is hard as nail here. But New York is still the place for people who run their own business -- like me.


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## septic tank (Dec 1, 2005)

*Work, U.S. and U.K.*




			
				gracious said:
			
		

> has anyone here actually worked in corporate america?



I work for a British company, so I'm not sure my experience is typical, but having worked in both London and New York, I'd say the difference is this: There's a lot less humiliation involved in the American workplace -- and a lot less humor. We're pretty much automatons over here. We don't get any more work done than anyone anywhere else, but we're very good at looking busy. We also don't do any living at work -- upon entering the workplace you pretty much shed your humanity and strap a harness on.


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## septic tank (Dec 1, 2005)

Jessiedog said:
			
		

> But _nothing_ beats the "work ethic" in HK. The last job I had I averaged 75 hours a week (sometimes 70, sometimes 80,) and I'm talking full-on, in-your-face pressure for all that time - sell, sell, sell, make money, make money, make money. Ten minutes lunch break at the desk. I lasted four months.



Yeah. In New York, you can get away with 55-hour weeks, so long as your boss leaves before 6:30 and you leave soon after, but all the people in management positions that I know work 70-hour weeks at a minimum. I'm sure they do a lot more fucking around than they do in HK, but it's still pretty grueling. I've opted for non-management positions, personally. Bad tickers run in my family, and the stress ain't worth it.


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## FruitandNut (Dec 7, 2005)

What tickles me about corporate USA is their drive for efficiency, their long hours of work, few holidays, their ideal of self-sufficiency, their mantra that free enterprise is best - and yet they still have a national debt that would frighten the sh*t out of other nations.

Even when it comes to debt, Uncle Sam needs to be biggest and best!    Yup - the US of A certainly doesn't believe in doing things by halves.

ps.  I heard somewhere that the 'Merry Widow' now lives in corporate America.   -That 70+% of private wealth is now in the ownership of women.    I wonder if the secret feminist cry is, 'Bring on those coronaries!'


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## septic tank (Dec 7, 2005)

Oh, I'm not so sure about female ownership -- your source? Sounds like an old wive's tale to me.

But yes, the national debt is the product of 30 years of glorious conservative government and supply-side economics, interrupted only by 8 of "deficit hawk" Clintonian conservative government. The thing to remember is that this is not corporate America's debt -- it's the American taxpayer's. They get a free lunch and we get stuck with the tab, even as real wages have remained stagnant for decades and good-paying union jobs have pretty much disappeared. We'll have another Great Depression one of these years soon, the corporate bandits and their Washington puppets will be reined in a bit and the situation will right itself for a few more decades.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 7, 2005)

septic tank said:
			
		

> The thing to remember is that this is not corporate America's debt -- it's the American taxpayer's. They get a free lunch and we get stuck with the tab, even as real wages have remained stagnant for decades and good-paying union jobs have pretty much disappeared. ...



Um, actually we don't get a free lunch.  We have the same problems with stagnant wages.  Add to that problems with social security and a health care crisis and no we don't get a "free ride."  Also, all of that will have to be repaid
--probably at gunpoint, with the Chinese on the other side of the gun.  The ones that get the free-ride are the Bushes, the Halliburtons, and the Waltons (Wallmart family).


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## septic tank (Dec 8, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> Um, actually we don't get a free lunch.



Right. I was saying _Corporate _America gets a free lunch and we get the shaft.


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## septic tank (Dec 8, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> Um, actually we don't get a free lunch.


 Oh, yeah. I guess I should have pointed out that I'm one of those American taxpayers getting shafted to pay for Halliburton's free lunch. I haven't been around much the last couple years.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 8, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> I've never, not once, seen such a tattoo.  In fact, I'd go so far to say that US business culture is extremely anti-tattoo.



It sounds like a crock of shit.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 8, 2005)

FruitandNut said:
			
		

> What tickles me about corporate USA is their drive for efficiency, their long hours of work, few holidays, their ideal of self-sufficiency, their mantra that free enterprise is best - and yet they still have a national debt that would frighten the sh*t out of other nations.



What tickles me, is how you've confused two totally unrelated concepts.


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## D (Dec 8, 2005)

This is a slight derail, but there's a taqueria in San Francisco that once offered free burritos for life to anyone who got a permanent tattoo of the eatery's logo. 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/04/14/MN76470.DTL


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Dec 8, 2005)

D said:
			
		

> This is a slight derail, but there's a taqueria in San Francisco that once offered free burritos for life to anyone who got a permanent tattoo of the eatery's logo.
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/04/14/MN76470.DTL



Free burritos for life?

Hell; I'd do it.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 8, 2005)

Johnny Canuck2 said:
			
		

> Free burritos for life?
> 
> Hell; I'd do it.



Burritos no.  Fish tacos.... maybe!


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## D (Dec 8, 2005)

Yuwipi Woman said:
			
		

> Burritos no.  Fish tacos.... maybe!


I believe it was actually "free lunch", so fish tacos were probably okay.


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## Jessiedog (Dec 9, 2005)

D said:
			
		

> I believe it was actually "free lunch", so fish tacos were probably okay.




But....But.....

There's no such thing as a free lunch!

(Oh! I forgot. 'Tis not free. It's marked for life.)



Woof


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