# SpaceX rockets and launches



## rover07 (Mar 10, 2013)

Space X's Grasshopper reusable rocket gets its 3rd test flight.


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## HAL9000 (Mar 10, 2013)

is Jonny Cash strapped to the rocket?


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## ferrelhadley (Mar 10, 2013)

Very similar to the delta clipper. 

The aim is to have a reusable rocket, that the extra fuel would be more than covered for by the cost of not having to build a new rocket every time. Potentially game changing approach.


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## Crispy (Mar 23, 2013)

3x larger than the DC-X though.

Also, they're going to try "landing" the 1st stage of regular Falcon flights at sea from now on, as practice. The rocket will fall into the sea and sink, but hopefully it will have come to a controlled halt first. That should be fun to watch!


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## MikeMcc (Mar 24, 2013)

The next flight should be using the Falcon 9 v1.1, using the Merlin 1D engines which deliver more thrust. So they are going to use that as a test bed for some of the return to ground functionality.  There is also a new version of grasshopper that they hope to launch to 300k ft (about 50 miles).

http://nextbigfuture.com/2013/03/spacex-may-try-to-land-recover-first.html


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## Crispy (Apr 23, 2013)

New footage of the grasshopper's latest hop. This time to 250m, and filmed from a remote controlled hexacopter. Watch it lean into the wind! They're landing with the thrust:weight ratio greater than 1 now, which takes precision timing. Seriously impressive. I can't wait to see one of these things come hurtling out of the sky after liftoff and come to a dead stop.


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## HAL9000 (Apr 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> New footage of the grasshopper's latest hop. This time to 250m, and filmed from a remote controlled hexacopter. Watch it lean into the wind! They're landing with the thrust:weight ratio greater than 1 now, which takes precision timing. Seriously impressive. I can't wait to see one of these things come hurtling out of the sky after liftoff and come to a dead stop.


 
When you say "landing with the thrust:weight ratio greater than 1", I assume this is happens when the fuel is almost exhausted so simulating a likely landing scenario?


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## Crispy (Apr 24, 2013)

HAL9000 said:


> When you say "landing with the thrust:weight ratio greater than 1", I assume this is happens when the fuel is almost exhausted so simulating a likely landing scenario?


That's right. The "easy" way to land a VTVL rocket is to approach zero altitude asymptotically. You slow down gradually until you're "hovering" at zero altitude, with thrust exactly matching the mass of the vehicle. Then you turn the engine off and fall the last few centimeters onto your landing legs.



This requires deep throttling of the engine, as the mass of an empty rocket stage tiny compared to a full one. Throttling an engine tends to decrease its efficiency - you get less thrust per kg of fuel burned.

A more fuel efficient trajectory is to use the engine at full power, which slows you down much more quickly. The trick is to time it just right so that altitude and velocity reach zero at exactly the same time. If you keep the engine on like this, the falling rocket will slow, stop on the floor, then rise again. So you turn the engine off at the bottom of the curve.



Of course what you _don't _want to happen is start slowing down too late.



Or too soon.



Because you don't want to hit the ground, or waste fuel oscillating up and down.


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## Crispy (Apr 24, 2013)

In fact, someone over on this thread has done the calcs and found the most fuel efficient landing trajectory for a Falcon 9.1 first stage. It requires hurtling directly towards the landing pad at terminal velocity (150m/s, or 335mph), waiting until the altitude is 110m, 0.7 seconds before impact, before igniting two of the 9 engines at full throttle, which decelerates the vehicle at 10Gs and stops it just in time. Takes just 750kg of fuel . A wee bit risky, mind.

The real thing will bleed off some speed with a burn whilst on a falling trajectory that impacts the ocean. Only when the engine is confirmed to be running ok will it steer the trajectory onto land, after which the landing procedure will look a lot like the 2nd half of the video we just saw.


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## tombowler (Apr 24, 2013)

this may be a stupid question but how do they steer it/ keep it on course?


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## Crispy (Apr 24, 2013)

tombowler said:


> this may be a stupid question but how do they steer it/ keep it on course?


The main engine can be pointed left-right/up-down by a few degrees, which imparts a bit of sideways thrust. If you imagine balancing a broomstick on the palm of your hand, this is the side-to-side motion you need to do to keep it upright. In addition, the grasshopper has cold gas thrusters (which literally puff little bursts of compressed air) to control roll, along the long axis.


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## tombowler (Apr 24, 2013)

ah I did not spot those side cold gas thrusters that makes sense now. thank you


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## Crispy (Aug 14, 2013)

Very impressive new video. This has been done by smaller rockets, but nothing this big has shown such precision in moving sideways in flight.


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## Crispy (Aug 15, 2013)

It should be noted that the whole thing was done in a 20 knot crosswind, too. That's windy enough for the space shuttle to have cancelled a landing and stayed in orbit.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 15, 2013)

Crispy said:


> In fact, someone over on this thread has done the calcs and found the most fuel efficient landing trajectory for a Falcon 9.1 first stage. It requires hurtling directly towards the landing pad at terminal velocity (150m/s, or 335mph), waiting until the altitude is 110m, 0.7 seconds before impact, before igniting two of the 9 engines at full throttle, which decelerates the vehicle at 10Gs and stops it just in time. Takes just 750kg of fuel . A wee bit risky, mind.


 
That would be fucking amazing to watch


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## Crispy (Aug 15, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That would be fucking amazing to watch


You'll get the chance to see it on the next Falcon 9 launch. They'll be testing the return and landing procedure, except they'll be aiming for the ocean, not the land.

The actual return-to-pad trajectory will not be far off tbf. The rocket will come screaming in at terminal velocity on course to impact in the ocean near the pad, or into a specailly constructed "crash pit". Then it will turn the engine on and slow down rapidly (thrust:weight ratio of over 3), making a sideways move just like the one in the video in order to hit the pad instead.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 15, 2013)

Awesome


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## Crispy (Aug 15, 2013)

Also, expect to see much higher hops, including engine shutdown, coast, relight flights using Grasshopper 2 at the Spaceport America site in New Mexico. 300,000ft maximum altitude.


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## Bob_the_lost (Aug 16, 2013)

It's not that hard


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## Tankus (Aug 16, 2013)

?? ...the McDonnell delta clipper rocket was doing all this and a hell of a lot more ,almost two decades ago ....?


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## Crispy (Aug 16, 2013)

Tankus said:


> ?? ...the McDonnell delta clipper rocket was doing all this and a hell of a lot more ,almost two decades ago ....?


Yes, but it was 1/3rd the size and designed specifically for that sort of manoeuvre. I read a lovely metaphor on the NSF forum:



> It's like watching an acrobat and a sumo wrestler doing a back flip, then sticking the landing. The acrobat has a better flip, but that's expected - it's their primary mission, they are optimized for the task, and of course they are good at it. The sumo wrestler, on the other hand, is optimized for a very different and largely contradictory primary mission, so it's much more impressive when they perform the same feat, even if not quite so well.


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## Tankus (Aug 16, 2013)

Its not a toy though , and they have had two decades in which to scale it up


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## Crispy (Aug 16, 2013)

No doubt. If it hadn't been for X-33 eating all of NASA's SSTO R&D money, it could have gone somewhere.
But a VTOL SSTO is damned hard anyway. Your mass fraction is going to be terrible, if not zero, unless you use exotic engine technology like aerospike or mixed mode (air-breathing rocket).
I like the approach that SpaceX is taking - make the first stage reusable and you've already saved yourself the majority of the cost of the rocket. It's 90% of the engines and 75% of the tanking. It's much much easier than recovering the whole vehicle, and lets you test technologies while flying commercial missions. Win-win, IMO.


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## MikeMcc (Aug 16, 2013)

Tankus said:


> Its not a toy though , and they have had two decades in which to scale it up


Helps when it doesn't crash and burn up...


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## Crispy (Aug 16, 2013)

MikeMcc said:


> Helps when it doesn't crash and burn up...


 
DC-X didn't really crash, it just fell over. The project was being run into the ground anyway.
Besides, test vehicles are kind of *supposed* to crash. That way you find out what they can't do.


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## MikeMcc (Aug 16, 2013)

Yeah, I did have to change the post from explode to burn up too...


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## rover07 (Sep 29, 2013)

First launch of the new Falcon 9, today at 5pm.

http://new.livestream.com/spacex/F9-6



> *Grasshopper system to "land" first stage onto the ocean surface. First time trying multiple engine restarts.
> *Both stages will carry more fuel.
> *Merlin1D engine replaces Merlin1C
> *First flight at Vandenberg
> *First use of payload fairing


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2013)

I will be amazed if they manage to bring the 1st stage down in a controlled manner. It will look incredible if they do


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## rover07 (Sep 29, 2013)

Crispy said:


> I will be amazed if they manage to bring the 1st stage down in a controlled manner. It will look incredible if they do



Yep looking forward to seeing this! I hope they show it live! 

How long after launch do you think it will be? I imagine it will come straight down after separation, 10 mins maybe?


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## rover07 (Sep 29, 2013)

Pre-launch webcast.

It's a beautiful morning in California! 

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2013)

Good launch so far 
I love the symmetrical engine flare


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## HAL9000 (Sep 29, 2013)

Crispy said:


> No doubt. If it hadn't been for X-33 eating all of NASA's SSTO R&D money, it could have gone somewhere.
> But a VTOL SSTO is damned hard anyway. Your mass fraction is going to be terrible, if not zero, unless you use exotic engine technology like aerospike or mixed mode (air-breathing rocket).
> I like the approach that SpaceX is taking - make the first stage reusable and you've already saved yourself the majority of the cost of the rocket. It's 90% of the engines and 75% of the tanking. It's much much easier than recovering the whole vehicle, and lets you test technologies while flying commercial missions. Win-win, IMO.



why didn't aerospike take off, too little benefit?


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2013)

HAL9000 said:


> why didn't aerospike take off, too little benefit?


In the X-33's case, the spike ended being too heavy. A similar concept is the expansion-deflection nozzle, which has the same altitude compensating effect, but with a much smaller extra component.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_deflection_nozzle


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## rover07 (Sep 29, 2013)

No camera on the first stage?


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2013)

rover07 said:


> No camera on the first stage?


I guess not. 2nd stage is the main mission, so that's where they're dedicating effort, I suppose.


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## rover07 (Sep 29, 2013)

He just said 1st stage engine re-ignited. 

What's happened? 2nd stage lost signal or whole thing lost?


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## rover07 (Sep 29, 2013)

And we're back....


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## rover07 (Sep 29, 2013)

I assume they got to orbit but no info on the 1st stage.

Oh well maybe next time.


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2013)

We'll find out later, I expect. Still, impressive performance from what is effectively a new vehicle.


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2013)

Primary mission complete success. CASSIOPE is in the correct orbit 
Meanwhile, Elon's private jet: http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/N887XF
and the SpaceX recovery ship: http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/de...20.3313&centery=29.25173&zoom=10&type_color=9

are out and about...


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## MikeMcc (Sep 29, 2013)

Awesome, can't wait to here the results of the first stage testing.  That launch had a lot of new features. New pad and launch track, new engines, airframe, fuel handling, flight profile.  It was one hell of a gamble even with an essentially zero-risk payload.


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2013)

First reports are that the 1st stage did its braking burn, re-entered fine, and was part way through the final "landing" burn, when excessive roll "centrifuged" the fuel away from the feed line, causing engine flame-out. So very nearly a complete success. Apparently, there is video. Coming later this week, we hope.


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## Crispy (Oct 2, 2013)

yep that's exactly what it looks like


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## Bob_the_lost (Oct 2, 2013)

Someone completely missing the launch of the new Falcon 9?


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## Crispy (Oct 2, 2013)

I imagine his head rotates on his neck like other heads


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## Bob_the_lost (Oct 2, 2013)

Crispy said:


> I imagine his head rotates on his neck like other heads


Think of him as a Ginger batman.


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## Crispy (Oct 12, 2013)

Ok, this is incredible footage. The hexacopter gets VERY close to the rocket as it descends. Looks like a movie special effect. Very very cool.


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## Limejuice (Oct 13, 2013)

That was some excellent piece of rocketry.

I mean, wow.

All hail, the wonks, who made that work.


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## Crispy (Oct 16, 2013)

Here is the first stage of the F9 v1.1 "landing" on the ocean. This is apparently a still from a video, which we will get to see soon fingers crossed.


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## rover07 (Nov 25, 2013)

Falcon 9 launch tonight 10pm.



> GEO Transfer Mission
> 
> SES-8 will be SpaceX’s first launch to a geostationary transfer orbit – 80,000 km from Earth – and most challenging mission to date. Launch window opens at 5:37pm EST on Monday.



http://www.spacex.com/webcast/


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## Crispy (Nov 25, 2013)

editor - Could we have this thread renamed to "SpaceX rocket launches and news" please? We only really need the one thread, but the current title's a bit inaccurate.


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## rover07 (Nov 25, 2013)

http://new.livestream.com/spacex/SES8


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## Crispy (Nov 25, 2013)

T -12 minutes and counting.


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## Crispy (Nov 25, 2013)

well, they had an issue but looks like they've fixed it. New T=0 at half past


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## rover07 (Nov 25, 2013)

T - 6 minutes.


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## rover07 (Nov 25, 2013)

Hold?!


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## Crispy (Nov 25, 2013)

Yep
I don't think they've got time for another go before the window closes 
Same time tomorrow I suppose...

EDIT: Thursday night.


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## rover07 (Nov 25, 2013)

Happy Holidays!


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

Reminder: Launch window opens at 22:38
Watch live: http://www.spacex.com/webcast/


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

T minus 15 minutes.


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## rover07 (Nov 28, 2013)

T - 3 minutes!


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

Gorgeous weather & sunset for it


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

T-0 abort >_<


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## rover07 (Nov 28, 2013)

WTF!!!


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## rover07 (Nov 28, 2013)

Can they try another launch?


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

rover07 said:


> Can they try another launch?


EDIT: Hmm, well I thought they'd done it before, but I'm not sure now. Maybe that was with the falcon 1. We'll see what the guy has to say...


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## rover07 (Nov 28, 2013)

Did they abort or the engines just didn't fire?

Ah ok.


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

No, I was right - the very first flight had a 1h15m turnaround from an engines-hot abort to relaunch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_Flight_1


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## Bob_the_lost (Nov 28, 2013)

A 65 minute window means they'd have to do better this time around.


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

Bob_the_lost said:


> A 65 minute window means they'd have to do better this time around.


They've had a fair bit of practice since then


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## Bob_the_lost (Nov 28, 2013)

Crispy said:


> They've had a fair bit of practice since then


True, but is it really too much to ask that they schedule the windows an hour earlier for those of us in the UK who want to watch?


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

Well, they're reloading LOX so must be confident 




			
				Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk said:
			
		

> Launch aborted by autosequence due to slower than expected thrust ramp. Seems ok on closer inspection. Cycling countdown.


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## rover07 (Nov 28, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Well, they're reloading LOX so must be confident



They sound very casual too. 

'You got enough fuel?'

'Yeah, its good'


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## Crispy (Nov 28, 2013)

right. got it streaming on the ipad and I'm going to bed with headphones


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## rover07 (Nov 28, 2013)

Abort.

 Better luck tomorrow.


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## Bob_the_lost (Dec 3, 2013)

Guess what, we missed it: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/03/spacex-3rd-launch-attempt-commercial-satellite/ why does it never work whilst you're watching it?


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## Crispy (Feb 3, 2014)

Here's the first photos of the new grasshopper test vehicle, or the F9R-1 as it's now called. This thing's twice as tall as the first grasshopper, and is almost identical to an actual Falcom 9 first stage. It's also the first time we've seen the actual landing legs attached to the rocket. Note that it's not actually sitting on these legs in these photos, as they're not strong enough to support the vehicle & fuel. When this flies (and you can tell they've already lit the engines, so it can't be far away), it will launch from a support frame, move sideways and land once the fuel tanks are almost empty. Minus the nose cone, this is what we hope to see falling out of the sky 5 minutes after the launch of a real Falcon 9R.


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## Crispy (Feb 24, 2014)

Here's the first stage of the next Falcon 9 rocket (CRS-3 mission to the ISS) showing a flight-spec landing leg. They'll carry on trying to "land" these stages on the ocean until they've got the procedure perfected. Launch is currently scheduled for 16th March, but the launch window is at night so don't expect any amazing pictures/footage of the "landing"


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## Bob_the_lost (Mar 27, 2014)

The March launch is in four days at around 3:50 AM in the UK if my numbers are right. 10:50 PM EDT, March 30th.

http://www.universetoday.com/110326...ry-rocket-legs-and-robonaut-legs-to-march-30/


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## Crispy (Mar 27, 2014)

Bob_the_lost said:


> The March launch is in four days at around 3:50 AM in the UK if my numbers are right. 10:50 PM EDT, March 30th.
> 
> http://www.universetoday.com/110326...ry-rocket-legs-and-robonaut-legs-to-march-30/


Nope. A fire at the radar range has delayed all launches from the cape into April.
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/03/eastern-range-radar-upcoming-launches/


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## Crispy (Mar 27, 2014)

editor could we rename this thread to "SpaceX rockets and launches" please?


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## Bob_the_lost (Mar 27, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Nope. A fire at the radar range has delayed all launches from the cape into April.
> http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/03/eastern-range-radar-upcoming-launches/


They should launch anyway, i don't really care if the payload makes it into orbit as long as i get to see the first stage try to land...


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## Crispy (Mar 27, 2014)

Bob_the_lost said:


> They should launch anyway, i don't really care if the payload makes it into orbit as long as i get to see the first stage try to land...



You heard about the rocket they're going to build for mars? A 10 meter diameter tank with 9 methane/oxygen engines, each providing 4,500kN of thrust = 40,500kN, which handily beats the 34,000kN of the Saturn V. And there would be three such cores in the Heavy version. That's a rocket with 3.5x the thrust of the Saturn V. Monstrous. Impossible to launch from the cape, the noise would be too great. Those cores would do flyback recovery too.


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## Bob_the_lost (Mar 27, 2014)

Crispy said:


> You heard about the rocket they're going to build for mars? A 10 meter diameter tank with 9 methane/oxygen engines, each providing 4,500kN of thrust = 40,500kN, which handily beats the 34,000kN of the Saturn V. And there would be three such cores in the Heavy version. That's a rocket with 3.5x the thrust of the Saturn V. Monstrous. Impossible to launch from the cape, the noise would be too great. Those cores would do flyback recovery too.


Apparently those were at the 'back of fag packet' stage of design so by the time they launch our hearing will probably be gone anyway.


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## Crispy (Apr 14, 2014)

Crispy said:


> editor could we rename this thread to "SpaceX rockets and launches" please?



Cheers 

Today's launch is at 9pm, and will be the first time they've flown a first stage with landing legs.



It will probably be too dark for good photographs of the "landing" attempt on the ocean


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## rover07 (Apr 14, 2014)

Launch is at 4.58pm Eastern Time, 9.58pm here.

Wouldn't it still be light on 'landing'?


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## Limejuice (Apr 14, 2014)

Okay, that's this evening's telly sorted.



Man, I love rockets.


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## rover07 (Apr 14, 2014)

Launch delayed until Friday.



> CRS-3 Update
> 
> Today’s launch has been scrubbed due to a Helium leak on Falcon 9’s first stage. A fix will be implemented by the next launch opportunity on Friday April 18, though weather on that date isn’t ideal. Check back here for updates.


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## 2hats (Apr 16, 2014)

rover07 said:


> Launch delayed until Friday.



Targeted for 2025BST so I understand.


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## Crispy (Apr 16, 2014)

rover07 said:


> Launch is at 4.58pm Eastern Time, 9.58pm here.
> 
> Wouldn't it still be light on 'landing'?


Derp, yes of course it will. The night landing was for the scrubbed date last month.

There will be chase planes aplenty, so fingers crossed we'll get some spectacular images.


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## rover07 (Apr 18, 2014)

Here we go again. 

http://www.spacex.com/webcast/

Groovy music


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## rover07 (Apr 18, 2014)

F9R First test flight/ 250m


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## Limejuice (Apr 18, 2014)

rover07 said:


> Here we go again.
> 
> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
> 
> Groovy music


Better coverage than the Nasa channel.

Nice one.


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## Crispy (Apr 18, 2014)

"Still getting excellent video of the first-stage, having performed its entry burn..."

Let us SEE IT!!!!!


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## Crispy (Apr 19, 2014)

They did it


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## HAL9000 (Apr 19, 2014)

Crispy said:


> View attachment 52415
> 
> They did it



First stage landing,  when will we know if it worked correctly?  BBC says further analysis is required.



> Initial data suggested the early phase of the descent was well controlled. Further data gathered via a tracking plane will need to be studied to learn exactly how the stage performed as it made its final approach towards the water's surface.


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## Crispy (Apr 24, 2014)

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31513.msg1187497#msg1187497



> A respected member of the forum acquired a bunch of updated and very legit looking information on numerous elements and posted it. Several members correctly reported to mod via a mix of "Holy moly, is this true?" and "Alarms will be going off in Elon's head, etc. ...
> 
> ...We're all on the same team, and that why it's important to show the right journalistic approach, such as the above, keeping it off site until they get a chance to confirm, deny, comment, no comment, whatever.
> 
> What I will say is my "SpaceX pushing the boundaries" headline on the latest SpaceX article is about to become understatement of the year. So there's no "oh crap!" info, it's all good, positive, but REALLY needs checking out before it's all over the open areas of this site.



What's in the box? WHAT'S IN THE BOX?!?!


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## Bob_the_lost (Apr 24, 2014)

Crispy said:


> http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31513.msg1187497#msg1187497
> 
> What's in the box? WHAT'S IN THE BOX?!?!


Cryptic comment is cryptic.


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## Crispy (Apr 24, 2014)

Reliable source is reliable, however.


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## Bob_the_lost (Apr 24, 2014)

I just hate teasers.


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## rover07 (Apr 26, 2014)

There is a video of the soft landing of the booster! It hasn't been released yet though and the images aren't very good.

SpaceX Press Conference at the National Press Club - Apr. 25


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## Crispy (Apr 26, 2014)

It's probably from the onboard camera. It won't show much, just the waves getting closer.
When they start doing the actual resturn to launch site manouver (potentially on the next launch!), that will make for some exciting footage.


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## Bob_the_lost (May 1, 2014)

Poor quality video of the water landing: http://www.spacex.com/news/2014/04/29/first-stage-landing-video

I would complain but apparently it's not easy to transmit video data to a distant airborne reciever through storms from a drain pipe that's just fallen from space, just before it hits the water.


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## Crispy (May 1, 2014)

When they land nearer to the coast, the reception will be much better


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## Bob_the_lost (May 1, 2014)

Crispy said:


> When they land nearer to the coast, the reception will be much better


When they land on land, or a boat, the footage will be awesome.


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## DownwardDog (May 2, 2014)

Elon Musk didn't get where he is by letting a good crisis go to waste... He's obtained an injunction preventing the USAF buying Russian rocket motors via ULA.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/01/us-spacex-unitedlaunchalliance-idUSKBN0DH2G420140501


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## Crispy (May 2, 2014)

1km, highest hop yet (and as high as they can go at this site, IIRC)


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## Bob_the_lost (May 2, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> Elon Musk didn't get where he is by letting a good crisis go to waste... He's obtained an injunction preventing the USAF buying Russian rocket motors via ULA.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/01/us-spacex-unitedlaunchalliance-idUSKBN0DH2G420140501


Yeah, there's a big juicy military contract, that Musk recons he can bid at around a quarter of what ULA are selling at, which wasn't even put out for competitive bids. At worst he'd lose the contract but hurt his competitors margins, at best he gets a lot more flights.


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## Bob_the_lost (May 22, 2014)

Next launch scheduled for 11th June, which is also going to include some controlled descent testing.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/05/spacex-targets-june-11-falcon-9-orbcomm/


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## Crispy (May 30, 2014)

Dragon V2



The actual reveal is at 3:30

 

Now that's a good-looking spaceship


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## IC3D (May 30, 2014)

That's a very sexy cockpit


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## Crispy (May 30, 2014)

The interior is obviously unfinished. You'd never see the naked pressure hull like that. It'll be half full of luggage and life support. But the seats and control panel are fantastic  So scifi!


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## editor (May 30, 2014)

Seeing a new spacecraft being unveiled in that manner looks fantastically futuristic!


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## Crispy (May 30, 2014)

Tony Stark eat your heart out


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## Bob_the_lost (May 30, 2014)

Propulsive landing? Awesome.


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## Bob_the_lost (Jun 11, 2014)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Next launch scheduled for 11th June, which is also going to include some controlled descent testing.
> 
> http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/05/spacex-targets-june-11-falcon-9-orbcomm/


Now moved to Sunday.


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## Bob_the_lost (Jun 16, 2014)

Now delayed further as there's a 'minor' issue with one of the satellites that it's supposed to be launching. Not going up tomorrow apparently which probably means it's not going anywhere for a fortnight +


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## Bob_the_lost (Jun 22, 2014)

Now scheduled for this evening but the weather is looking questionable.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2014/6/20/spacex_falcon_9_laun.html


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## Crispy (Jun 22, 2014)

Scrubbed already. Bad weather


----------



## editor (Jul 3, 2014)




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## Crispy (Jul 14, 2014)

The Orbcomm launch should (finally) happen today. Launch window opens at 14:22 UK time, with a live webcast available here.

They will be attempting another sea "landing" and the weather's much nicer this time. Fingers crossed for good footage


----------



## Crispy (Jul 14, 2014)

T-0 has been pushed back to the end of the launch window, at 16:44 UK time. Means they've found a problem and are rushing to try and fix it before the window closes. Doesn't look hopeful


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jul 14, 2014)

Crispy said:


> T-0 has been pushed back to the end of the launch window, at 16:44 UK time. Means they've found a problem and are rushing to try and fix it before the window closes. Doesn't look hopeful


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jul 14, 2014)

Crispy said:


> T-0 has been pushed back to the end of the launch window, at 16:44 UK time. Means they've found a problem and are rushing to try and fix it before the window closes. Doesn't look hopeful


New T0 of 16:15 UK time. The webcast has begun.

Edit: T minus 1 minute


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## Bob_the_lost (Jul 14, 2014)

Liftoff!


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## editor (Jul 14, 2014)

Wheee!


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jul 14, 2014)

Separation and all looks well. To be honest at this point i no longer give a flying monkey about the comms satelite they're trying to put into orbit. Show me the first stage!


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2014)




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## Crispy (Jul 14, 2014)

Bugger, missed it!


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## editor (Jul 14, 2014)

Flying high!


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## Bob_the_lost (Jul 14, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Bugger, missed it!


You need to spend more time on here - i gave you at least 30 seconds notice.


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## Bob_the_lost (Jul 14, 2014)

And the webcast is over.


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## Crispy (Jul 14, 2014)

Fingers crossed for the 1st stage. Nasa have their WB-57 (actually a copy of an English Electric Canberra from the 50s!) on spotting duty: http://www.flightradar24.com/NASA927/3cff2e3


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jul 14, 2014)

As it's topical, and I hadn't seen this version, here's a link to the re-built footage from the first recovery attempt. It's been repaired to an amazing extent.


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## Crispy (Jul 14, 2014)

It's an incredible achievement. Restored by hand, macroblock by macroblock. It's literally advanced the state of the art of MPEG data recovery (and made a lot of people mad at SpaceX for choosing the worst possible encoding scheme for streaming video over an unreliable link).


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jul 14, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Fingers crossed for the 1st stage. Nasa have their WB-57 (actually a copy of an English Electric Canberra from the 50s!) on spotting duty: http://www.flightradar24.com/NASA927/3cff2e3


Looks like it's on its' way home.


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## Crispy (Jul 14, 2014)

Early analysis indicates that they haven't changed a frickin thing about the MPEG compression


----------



## Crispy (Jul 14, 2014)

But also



Wonder if they got any footage of _that _


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## Crispy (Jul 22, 2014)

Onboard landing footage:



This time, the reception was perfect. But the camera lens iced up >_<

The next two launches are for geostationary orbits, so there won't be enough residual proellant for another attempt. That will have to wait for the next ISS resupply mission, later in the year. The one after that will be on a "solid surface" which implies some sort of sea-going platform, rather than land.


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## Bob_the_lost (Jul 23, 2014)

*Iron Man*: How'd you solve the icing problem?
*Elon Musk*: Icing problem?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2014)

Another successful launch in the early hours of this morning. They scrubbed but recycled and launched literally in the last minute of the window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B9sTMJJggZA#t=10793



Just 22 days between launches, and they've got another one scheduled 20 days from now. They need to maintain this tempo to clear their backlog.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2014)

Horrible shakycam recording off a projection screen, but CHECK THIS SHIT OUT!



2hats Bob_the_lost editor

Oh and they've just confirmed the selection of Boca Chica, Texas as the site for their private launch complex. This means that within a few years they will have 4 working pads. SLC-4 at Vandenburg Airforce Base, Boca Chica, LC-40 at Cape Canaveral Airforce Base, and LC-39A at Kennedy Space Centre (one of the old shuttle pads)


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Aug 5, 2014)

. Very  indeed

According to my reading the next flight isn't going to try to land but the one scheduled for September 18th is going to try another water landing. October may bring a solid ground landing attempt...


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## Crispy (Aug 14, 2014)

Official release of the footage.



Very cool indeed


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Aug 14, 2014)

There's an enhanced contrast version of the last few seconds here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35410.0

It's really amazing just how steady it looked.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 17, 2014)

And now stabilised:


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## Crispy (Aug 23, 2014)

They pushed the F9R-1 really hard, it encountered an "anomaly" and triggered the self-destruct. Boom!



They make it look easy, but this shit is hard.


----------



## MikeMcc (Aug 24, 2014)

Shit happens on all big projects, it's just a lot more spectacular when it involves a few hundred tons of explosive fuels...

The system started fine and the automatic safeties appear to worked OK.  No doubt they will learn what happened from the telemetry and progress from that.  At least it wasn't a load carrying mission.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2014)

So after a successful launch 2 days ago, they're going to try for a 12 day turnaround before launching again on the 19th for an ISS supply mission. That will be very impressive indeed if they manage it. The factory must be making them like sausages, as they say.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Sep 9, 2014)

They are aiming for one launch a month at the moment. The last launch was delayed after the Grasshopper test vehicle demonstrated the range safety feature and they wanted to double check that the issue was unique to the Grasshopper.

I'm really excited by the idea that they will be trying a return to land mission this year.


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## rover07 (Sep 19, 2014)




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## Bob_the_lost (Sep 19, 2014)

*thinks about getting up at half six*

*looks at bottle of beer*

I'll just catch up on it after the event this time


----------



## MrSki (Sep 21, 2014)

SpaceX 20 minutes to go.

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VB5iRZRdWCo


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## MrSki (Sep 21, 2014)

All systems are go! 12 minutes to go.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2014)

This is a very cool video - 1st stage boostback and re-entry burns, in IR.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 17, 2014)

Currently scheduled for Friday, at 19:30 UK time, is the fifth Spacex commercial cargo flight to the ISS. A routine mission by now. What's got space geeks excited though, is that this time they plan to land the 1st stage on this barge in the Atlantic.



Don't get your hopes up. SpaceX themselves give it a 50/50 chance. It'll be truly amazing if they manage it.


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 17, 2014)

I like the way the X in the centre is part logo, part target.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 17, 2014)

All the parts are in place for this to work now.

The barge itself has four steerable engines that allow it maintain a position to within 3m of a fixed GPS location. The Grasshopper test vehicle has demonstrated 1m accuracy when landing from a translated position 1km up. The first stage has demonstrated re-entry and touchdown (zero velocity at zero altitude)

It's steering the stage during final descent that will be the trickiest bit. The landing zone has to be narrowed down to a tiny little rectangle. If they can do that, then it's just treading the same ground as Grasshopper.

In my mind, they'll either miss by a large amount, or land bang on the X.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 18, 2014)

Now reported as probably being delayed until later in the month or January due to (as yet unspecified) problems arising out of a hotfire test on Tuesday. A new date may be set at a meeting later today (Thursday).


----------



## 2hats (Dec 19, 2014)

Launch now planned for "no earlier" that 6th January at 1118UTC. They want to carry out a second static test before then.

e2a: successfully passed the static hotfire test yesterday (Friday) evening, so on target for no earlier than 6 Jan.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Dec 20, 2014)

Well the turkey and Christmas's pud won't be getting to the iss in time for Christmas. Im quite irked as I won't have internet access to see how the launch landing goes for that week


----------



## Crispy (Jan 5, 2015)

Everything on target for tomorrow's launch at 11:18 UK time.
Fingers crossed they pull off the landing


----------



## Crispy (Jan 5, 2015)

Landing platform at sea


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2015)

Launch in 25 minutes. Watch live here: http://www.spacex.com/webcast/


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 6, 2015)

I have the NASA stream on another monitor as well.

Twice the angles!


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 6, 2015)

Arse

Countdown abort.


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 6, 2015)

Well, the Spacex stream closed within minutes: Thanks for watching, join us for the next attempt which may be as close as Friday. Kthnxbye.

Nasa is still showing the launch platform, but commentary says that's it for today.

"Actuator drift late in the count terminated the count."

Friday launch attempt. 05:09 am (Eastern Time?)


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2015)

Bums. They have to launch bang on time for ISS visits, so the station orbit and launch trajectories line up. SpaceX haven't been great at getting off the pad on the first attempt recently...


----------



## mauvais (Jan 6, 2015)

What are the economics of this reusable rocket idea?

Obviously you get back a very expensive bit of kit, but you had to carry a load of extra fuel in order to do it, plus the logistics of recovery.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 6, 2015)

mauvais said:


> What are the economics of this reusable rocket idea?
> 
> Obviously you get back a very expensive bit of kit, but you had to carry a load of extra fuel in order to do it, plus the logistics of recovery.



Fuel is one of the smallest cost items. A few hundred thou, compared to the $70m cost of launch.
Recovery costs are not that low with this ocean-going method, but it's still loads cheaper than building an entirely new 1st stage. Even this rudimentary first go at reusability should see launch prices cut by at least half. If they can return the stages to land where they took off from, and the 2nd stage too, and perform similar "gas 'n' go" operations as an airliner, then launch costs could be 1/100ths of current prices.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 8, 2015)

Next launch attempt now targeted for 0947UTC on Saturday (10Jan). If that isn't met then the next opportunity is 0836UTC on Tuesday (13Jan).

e2a: that would be a night launch and barge landing.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jan 9, 2015)

The key question is how many times they can re-use it. To hit 1/100th then they'll need to be re-using the same booster several hundred times. I don't know enough to say it's not possible but it does feel very ambitious.

Firstly it's a high level of re-use, the entire shuttle program only did 135 missions spread over 5/6 hulls. Secondly there isn't the market at the moment to support that sort of level of re-use, although that would presumably come somewhere along the line as less polished re-use pushes down the price.


----------



## T & P (Jan 10, 2015)

Practice makes perfect, every thousand-mile journey starts with a single step and all that. It's okay to fail at this stage. But if we persevere we should end up with with a highly reliable reusable vehicle that will result in lower costs.

My uneducated mind dreams of the day when we deploy a working 'space lift', which would result in a giant leap in space exploration. In the meantime, let the rocketboys have their fun.


----------



## MrSki (Jan 10, 2015)

launch at 9.47am. Watch it here.

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VLDrV9KsWCo


----------



## MrSki (Jan 10, 2015)

T minus 10 minutes.


----------



## MrSki (Jan 10, 2015)

Liftoff!


----------



## 2hats (Jan 10, 2015)

_Unconfirmed_ report that the first stage reached the sea platform but didn't survive. Waiting for more information from the recovery team...

e2a:


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 10, 2015)

Well, at least it hit the target.

Now it's just a matter of how hard.



Nice one, rocketeers!


----------



## 2hats (Jan 10, 2015)

Limejuice said:


> Well, at least it hit the target.
> 
> Now it's just a matter of how hard.



Just a little too hard...


e2a: the Dragon capsule is motoring along fine, on target for the space station. Post launch news conference at about 1130UTC.


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 10, 2015)

"Will piece it together from telemetry and  ... actual pieces."

That's a rather nice bit of zeugma.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 10, 2015)

Post launch news conference has been cancelled as "the Dragon spacecraft in good health and its flight going well".


----------



## Crispy (Jan 10, 2015)

Hitting the target was the hard part, so very well done!

I'll be very interested to hear what prevented a safe landing. Did they get the deceleration wrong and smack into the deck? Come in at too great an angle? Only land on 3 legs and toppled overboard? A shame the landing was in the dark, in fog. There will likely be no cool video.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 10, 2015)

Mistake. Ignore.


----------



## Supine (Jan 10, 2015)

Close, but no cigar


----------



## 2hats (Jan 10, 2015)

The suggestion is that the first stage ran out of hydraulic fluid for the grid fins that help maintain control for and the degree of precision of the landing. Musk has tweeted that they plan to carry 50% more such fluid on the next flight.


----------



## coley (Jan 11, 2015)

2hats said:


> Just a little too hard...
> 
> 
> e2a: the Dragon capsule is motoring along fine, on target for the space station. Post launch news conference at about 1130UTC.



Bugger n hell, where does this bloke find the time? Space x,EVs,  PVs!!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 11, 2015)

coley said:


> Bugger n hell, where does this bloke find the time? Space x,EVs,  PVs!!



He's aiming to be a real life Bond Villain. I know what those "sea platforms" lead to...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 11, 2015)

'do you expect me to talk?'

'No Mr Elon! I expect you to run a ruinously expensive private space venture while governments quietly shelve anything other than mil/comms satellites!'

'This is quite a niche baddie demand'


----------



## gentlegreen (Jan 11, 2015)

They could at least show the mess. 
I suppose the reluctance might at least in part be to do with the amazing comet landing.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 11, 2015)




----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 11, 2015)

For the first time since the 80s it looks like launch technology is going in the right direction.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 11, 2015)

Doesn't look like there is much left of that rocket ...


----------



## weltweit (Jan 12, 2015)

I watched a long interview with Musk, might have been from a link on this thread even, an interesting personality, quite intense, focussed, knowledgeable and for a future Dr Evil, very likeable


----------



## 2hats (Jan 12, 2015)

The CRS-5 Dragon capsule has just been captured at the ISS and will now be berthed (currently live on NASA TV).

e2a: berthing shortly after 1245UTC today.

2e2a: Dragon now bolted to the ISS:


----------



## Crispy (Jan 16, 2015)

So close!





Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk · 3m3 minutes ago
@ID_AA_Carmack Before impact, fins lose power and go hardover. Engines fights to restore, but …





@elonmusk · 2m2 minutes ago
@ID_AA_Carmack Rocket hits hard at ~45 deg angle, smashing legs and engine section


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 16, 2015)

Some more images here:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/01/pictures-of-spacex-crash-on-barge.html#more


----------



## 2hats (Jan 16, 2015)

MikeMcc said:


> Some more images here:
> 
> http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/01/pictures-of-spacex-crash-on-barge.html#more



"rapid unscheduled disassembly event"


----------



## Crispy (Jan 16, 2015)

RUDE


----------



## Crispy (Jan 17, 2015)

https://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK

BOOM!


----------



## Crispy (Jan 17, 2015)

http://www.gfycat.com/ExemplaryBeneficialAmericanlobster


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 18, 2015)

At least they proved the barge is re-usable.


----------



## Supine (Jan 18, 2015)

Crispy said:


> https://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
> 
> BOOM!



That was close!


----------



## Crispy (Feb 8, 2015)

Another launch today - this time the DISCOVR satellite which is a new space weather advance warning mission. It watches the sun and gives other satellites the crucial warning of incoming charged particle storms.

And yes, they'll be making another landing attempt. This time with plenty of hydraulic fluid. But because of the mission profile, there won't be enough spare fuel to do one of the braking/boostback burns. This will make for a steeper, faster re-entry. Chances of success are still 50/50.

T-0 is tonight at 23:10


----------



## Crispy (Feb 8, 2015)

SpaceX's coverage starts in 2h


NasaTV is already talking about the mission if you're interested in space weather.


----------



## rover07 (Feb 8, 2015)

Animation of Falcon Heavy with reusable boosters. Due to launch later this year.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 8, 2015)

Launch attempt aborted.

e2a: If a launch attempt is made tomorrow the new lift off time will be 23:07:49UTC


----------



## Crispy (Feb 9, 2015)

For once not the rocket or the weather's fault, but an Air Force radar that's part of the range safety system.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 9, 2015)

Not officially confirmed yet but it looks like the weather will push this launch to tomorrow, Tuesday.

e2a: Next attempt now confirmed as 2305UTC Tuesday with a backup of 2303UTC Wednesday (weather cited as the reason). Failing that the next possible attempt is 20 Feb.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 10, 2015)

Weather's a bit woah a bit whay but at the moment everything is go. Choppy conditions in the Atlantic might call off the landing too. Damn weather. And damn that air force radar! It was a glorious sunny still day on Sunday!


----------



## 2hats (Feb 10, 2015)

Upper level winds red at this time (90+knots). They will roll down to T-13min (2252hrs) if needs be before making a decision on that.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 10, 2015)

Scrubbed due to high altitude winds (exceeds structural load and steering limits) at 25-30kft. Recycle for an attempt tomorrow.


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 10, 2015)

Same time, same place tomorrow then.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 10, 2015)

Limejuice said:


> Same time, same place tomorrow then.



Weather forecast is much better. Only 10% chance of launch violation. Upper winds should be reduced. Launch time is 22:03:31UTC.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 11, 2015)

Though weather looks favourable for the launch, weather out at sea isn't good for recovery (waves of several metres). Consequently they are not going to attempt a landing on the barge but will go for a 'soft' landing in the ocean instead (ie the first stage isn't expected to survive).


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 11, 2015)

The thing retracting looks like a giant praying mantis.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 11, 2015)

Beautiful sunset


----------



## Crispy (Feb 11, 2015)

Heck of a steady image for that much zoom


----------



## 2hats (Feb 11, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Heck of a steady image for that much zoom



The NASA downrange tracking cameras are pretty decent 

NASA TV has a nice distant shot of the upper stage, separated payload fairing segments and the first stage all arcing through the sky.


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 11, 2015)

Interesting to hear commentary using metric units.

With NASA launches, payloads in pounds, and distances and speeds in miles always makes me mentally facepalm.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 11, 2015)

One can clearly see the first stage making small thruster firings for attitude control/orientation as it falls back behind the upper stage after separation.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 11, 2015)

It's rare to get such a good view of these things 

Oh and spacecraft separation succesful - SpaceX's work here is done.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 12, 2015)

They would have stuck the landing too. Splashdown was perfect: 10m from target and nicely vertical.


----------



## MrSki (Feb 12, 2015)

Limejuice said:


> Interesting to hear commentary using metric units.
> 
> With NASA launches, payloads in pounds, and distances and speeds in miles always makes me mentally facepalm.


Could cause a major fuck-up.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 2, 2015)

Routine launch last night. Two com sats. Night launch, so boring to look at, and no landing legs. But at least they got it off the ground on the first try. They'll have to do that more often if they want to clear their backlog.



(launch at 14:40)


----------



## Crispy (Apr 13, 2015)

After a 2 launch break, there will be another landing attempt this evening. Launch at 16:33 local, 21:33 UK time. The mission is ISS resupply (the sixth such trip) but pft that's routine now. All signs are good for the landing attempt though. Daylight, calm weather, revised hydraulics installed. Fingers crossed!


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 13, 2015)

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 13, 2015)

3 minutes to go   

http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv


----------



## 2hats (Apr 13, 2015)

Weather hold. Scrubbed.


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 13, 2015)

flight cancelled due to weather


----------



## 2hats (Apr 13, 2015)

Next attempt tomorrow at 21:10:40BST. 50% chance of favourable weather (worse than today).

e2a:


----------



## rover07 (Apr 14, 2015)

Good chance of daylight landing or rapid disassembly today!


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

If Dragon-6 gets off the ground on time tomorrow then it should be visible in western skies along with the second stage over the UK about 18 minutes after launch (the solar arrays should have deployed by then making it even easier to spot). Rising in the west at 2128hrs and climbing towards the south (peaking just before around mag. +1) before entering eclipse at 2132hrs in the SSE.

(North to the top, West to the right, as one would see the sky looking upwards when facing South).

Note that the ISS itself will make bright passes at around 2030hrs and again at 2207hrs this evening (all times BST).


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2015)

Nice! It'll be clear skies so I'll keep an eye out


----------



## ffsear (Apr 14, 2015)

Did you draw that in ms paint?


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

Might be worth checking out through binoculars as there might be some venting or other phenomena to catch.


----------



## StoneRoad (Apr 14, 2015)

We've "Partly Cloudy" as tonight's forecast - so I don't expect to see even the ISS ...........


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2015)

I wonder if we'll be able to see ISS and Dragon flying in formation on one of the upcoming passes? I can't find an accurate timeline for the docking...


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

Crispy said:


> I wonder if we'll be able to see ISS and Dragon flying in formation on one of the upcoming passes? I can't find an accurate timeline for the docking...



Currently the final approach and berthing is scheduled for between 1000 and 1600 BST on Friday, so ISS passes on Thursday evening (2017 and 2153BST) will probably see them in close proximity.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

Talking of reusable rockets, United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing owned launch provider) have unveiled their plans for a new medium to heavy lift rocket to replace their Atlas and Delta models (and so reduce the number of pads that need to be maintained on east and west coasts at the same time) and (one would imagine, they hope) compete with SpaceX. It would also end their dependency on the (originally) Russian sourced RD180 engines.




Called 'Vulcan' (guess where the idea for that name came from) it features recoverable first stage engines - after deceleration protected by an inflatable hypersonic heatshield they will parachute to an 'air grab' by waiting helicopter:




Those engines may well turn out to be Blue Origin's (Amazon/Bezos' outfit) BE-4 model running on liquefied natural gas. First flight is not expected before 2019.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2015)

They're obviously wary of SpaceX's re-usability plans, but are hedging their bets. The engine recovery can be omitted with little penalty if it turns out to be uneconomic. But if stage re-use *does* turn out to be a winner, then they won't have gone far enough and SpaceX will eat them for breakfast.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

Other key factors in this move are reducing pad maintenance costs (ie down from 6/5 pads to 2) and getting away from the (what is for them) political hot potato of the RD-180 so the launch system is 100% USofA.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

Fueling underway. Launch time 21:10:41BST. Chance of favourable weather today is now 60% (lightning and wind shear would be the main concerns). Next attempt if no launch today would be Thursday - more favourable for ISS phasing but weather is forecast to only be 40% favourable that day.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Apr 14, 2015)

T-15 minutes.

http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Apr 14, 2015)

... and weather looks ok. They do not expect it to be a blocker to launch.

All stations are go...

T - 10 minutes


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Apr 14, 2015)

Liftoff!


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

Time to go hunt outside...


----------



## rover07 (Apr 14, 2015)

Did one of the engineers say, "first stage is back" ?!!!!


----------



## de_dog (Apr 14, 2015)

Twitter buzz is they hit the barge - not a landing


----------



## rover07 (Apr 14, 2015)

Oh well, should be some good footage from the Just Read The Instructions anyway. 

Clear night here...


----------



## de_dog (Apr 14, 2015)

they were showing the control room at about the right time. Some engineers did a 'oooh nearly' reaction.
Then polite applause from those gathered.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Apr 14, 2015)

Elon Musk said:
			
		

> Ascent successful. Dragon enroute to Space Station. Rocket landed on droneship, but too hard for survival.


Bah!


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

Perfect view of the Dragon, upper stage and both solar array covers just forming a small golden rhombus sailing through the sky. Easy naked eye visibility. Four golden stars.

e2a: image taken by a.n.other of the same pass, unstabilised array covers seen tumbling (ie flashing) either side of the Dragon and upper stage (central line):


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2015)

getting closer each time though.


----------



## de_dog (Apr 14, 2015)

yeah it's inspiring enough to see the livery on the way up.
Seeing it come down will be in a different league.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)

Even better short exposure shot - geometry exactly as it appeared through binoculars (and as could even be appreciated naked eye at peak brightness):




Upper stage and Dragon the two strong central lines, the array covers tumbling either side.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2015)




----------



## weltweit (Apr 14, 2015)

I am reminded of one of the few memorable things which Donald Rumsfeld said, : This is rocket science!


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2015)

So close! Next time 
(CRS-7 in June I think)


----------



## Crispy (Apr 15, 2015)

https://vine.co/v/euEpIVegiIx

Left a bit, right a bit...


----------



## Zimri (Apr 15, 2015)

Crispy said:


> https://vine.co/v/euEpIVegiIx
> 
> Left a bit, right a bit...


Now that is ace 

Shame they didn't quite manage it, but to be honest the fact they're even this close is pretty amazing. I didn't think they'd be able to slow the first stage down, nevermind almost land it without sacrificing payload for the additional fuel.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 15, 2015)

Zimri said:


> Now that is ace
> 
> Shame they didn't quite manage it, but to be honest the fact they're even this close is pretty amazing. I didn't think they'd be able to slow the first stage down, nevermind almost land it without sacrificing payload for the additional fuel.


They have, tbf. Missions with payloads/DeltaV requirements that are at the top end of the rocket's capabilities have not been able to attempt landing. They've only been able to run these tests on missions with "spare" fuel.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 15, 2015)

According to the latest state vectors Dragon and the ISS will be visible on the same pass tonight over the UK. At the moment, it appears that Dragon will lead the ISS by about 13 seconds - the following being the path the ISS will trace through the sky (seen from London, time given in BST):


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 15, 2015)

Shouldn't they have it land in a pronounced recess ?


----------



## HAL9000 (Apr 15, 2015)

Crispy said:


> They have, tbf. Missions with payloads/DeltaV requirements that are at the top end of the rocket's capabilities have not been able to attempt landing. They've only been able to run these tests on missions with "spare" fuel.



Are there going to be enough missions with spare fuel for this reuse trick to be useful?
I assume for every launch space x will try and lift as much mass as possible, or is it just lifting satellites toward a geostationary orbit that needs maximum fuel?


----------



## 2hats (Apr 15, 2015)

Looks like the orbit of Dragon has been circularised since the last set of orbital data (issued this morning) were published and now it's running some 20 minutes behind the ISS (as per below). If all runs to plan it should be much closer tomorrow.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 15, 2015)

Passed by just over half an hour ago chasing the ISS. The upper stage was easily visible about 2 minutes beforehand.


----------



## StoneRoad (Apr 15, 2015)

It was raining here .................. no ISS / Dragon watching tonight !


----------



## Crispy (Apr 15, 2015)

HAL9000 said:


> Are there going to be enough missions with spare fuel for this reuse trick to be useful?
> I assume for every launch space x will try and lift as much mass as possible, or is it just lifting satellites toward a geostationary orbit that needs maximum fuel?


Very heavy LEO launches or geostationary insertions are the thirsty missions.
They will soon be flying Falcon 9.2 (I think there are 3 more launches of the 9.1 version still to go), which has uprated engines and super-cooled fuel/oxidiser. The result is 20% more thrust on the 1st stage, which will allow landing attempts for all missions.

Full footage of the landing:



Look at the RCS desperately trying to keep it from tipping over at the end!

I saw the ISS tonight, but couldn't make out Dragon.
tbf, the light pollution was so bad, Venus and Jupiter were the only other bodies really visible.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Apr 15, 2015)

So amazingly close.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 16, 2015)

There's a 'marginal' pass of the ISS coming up starting around 2019BST (the sky will still be quite bright but the ISS itself will brighten as it moves in to the eastern sky) and running pretty much W, overhead to East across the southern UK. Dragon is reported to be running about 90 seconds behind (possibly a little less now).

Another, shorter pass lower in the SW (heading in to eclipse in the South) is due at 2155BST.


----------



## StoneRoad (Apr 16, 2015)

drat - no luck with that tonight - high level cloud cover. but thanks for the info, 2hats


----------



## Crispy (Apr 16, 2015)

How it looked from the deck:

https://vid.me/i6o5

One of the legs definitely failed - too much rotation at touchdown.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 17, 2015)

NASA TV coverage of the Dragon capture and berthing has just started. The Dragon is about 1km below the ISS at the moment.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 27, 2015)

"boring" launch tonight. Payload is Turkmenistan's first comsat. Ironically, the ultra-repressive government of Turkmenistan has just banned civilian use of satellite dishes. Good work Turkmenistan!

Launch window is 11:14-12:44 uk time. No landing legs or landing attempt, as this is a high-energy mission.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 28, 2015)

Launch went ok. Boring payload, boring weather, boring video I won't even link to it


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2015)

Dragon 2 takes its first flight tomorrow, when it takes off under its own power for the pad abort test. They did a hold-down test today

 

There's no launch window as such, and they'll be doing all sorts of tests and checks first. I wouldn't bother trying to watch it live cos it'll all be over in 2 minutes and you'll probably miss it. Will be cool video though


----------



## 2hats (May 6, 2015)

Crispy said:


> There's no launch window as such



Other than various range operational constraints and lighting which mean that the 'window' runs from 1400-2100BST.


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2015)

That's more like a conservatory, tbf


----------



## 2hats (May 6, 2015)

A greenhouse. Worth just looking in at 1400BST I think on the off chance it leaps off the pad on time.


----------



## 2hats (May 6, 2015)

NASA TV coverage has started as has SpaceX coverage.

e2a: Everything go at this time. Some lightning in the area could cause concerns.


----------



## 2hats (May 6, 2015)

Off it goes!

e2a: splashdown. Seems to have been successful, though may have underburned and landed closer to shore than expected.


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2015)

2hats said:


> A greenhouse. Worth just looking in at 1400BST I think on the off chance it leaps off the pad on time.


Called it


----------



## 2hats (May 6, 2015)




----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 14, 2015)

That went off, to re-use a cliche, like a rocket.


----------



## 2hats (May 21, 2015)

The Dragon CRS-6 has undocked from the ISS and is heading to a re-entry and splashdown in the Pacific off the coast of California around 1742BST today.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 22, 2015)

This is Elon Musk's current Twitter profile pic


----------



## Crispy (Jun 25, 2015)

Next launch & landing attempt this Sunday at 15:21 exactly - Dragon supply mission to the ISS.

New landing platform named "Of Course I Still Love You"

 

Third time's the charm?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 25, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Next launch & landing attempt this Sunday at 15:21 exactly - Dragon supply mission to the ISS.
> 
> New landing platform named "Of Course I Still Love You"
> 
> ...


Now featuring new and improved blast shield for the containers at one end of the deck.

They were so close last time but it's rocket science and they have failed twice out of the last two attempts. I remain hopeful but suspect another ball of flame.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 25, 2015)

They've failed twice, but for different reasons that were easy to identify. If they fail again, it'll be something new. I'm optimistic


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 28, 2015)

A Falcon 9 has just blown up after launch, about 35 k up. It was pretty when it happened.


----------



## weltweit (Jun 28, 2015)

sleaterkinney said:


> A Falcon 9 has just blown up after launch, about 35 k up. It was pretty when it happened.


So, well, lucky they weren't carrying humans then.
Any idea what went wrong?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 28, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Any idea what went wrong?



There's roughly a gazillion possible failure modes, so it'll take a while to sort through the data they have.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 28, 2015)

Great timing from the commentator:


----------



## Limejuice (Jun 28, 2015)

Arse.



I must say, the control room people looked supremely cool (3.30 onwards).

You'd expect red flashing lights and warning klaxons, but the two people in the foreground looked like they were texting what they wanted for lunch.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 28, 2015)

Limejuice said:


> You'd expect red flashing lights and warning klaxons, but the two people in the foreground looked like they were texting what they wanted for lunch.


They will have had tens or even hundreds of practice runs to cover these sort of things, so they're pretty well prepared for the worst.


weltweit said:


> So, well, lucky they weren't carrying humans then.


The crewed Dragon has launch escape thrusters that pull it clear of an emergency *very* quickly. They'd have been ok.





> Any idea what went wrong?


From the video and the comms chatter, I think something went wrong with the LOX piping on the second stage. They'd just started pre-chilling the engine (ie. running liquid oxygen through the cooling channels). Then there was an obvious LOX leak - all those vapour clouds. Final destruction was either the flight termination system, or aerodynamic forces destabilising and tearing it apart.


----------



## weltweit (Jun 28, 2015)

Crispy said:


> .. The crewed Dragon has launch escape thrusters that pull it clear of an emergency *very* quickly. They'd have been ok. ..


As I understand it, there were lots of sci experiments on that flight that could have been saved the same way no?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 28, 2015)

weltweit said:


> As I understand it, there were lots of sci experiments on that flight that could have been saved the same way no?


In theory, yes. Whether they'd properly survive the high Gs of escape, I don't know.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2015)

I know space is hard but this has unreasonably annoyed me. This was going to be third time lucky for a decen sea based landing. If that had been a manned flight we'd be looking at a tragedy. Try harder boffins, lest I grow angry.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> If that had been a manned flight we'd be looking at a tragedy.


Nah, the launch escape system on the manned version can cope with much worse. The astronauts would have been fine.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 29, 2015)

Crispy said:


> In theory, yes. Whether they'd properly survive the high Gs of escape, I don't know.


I spent many hours once trying to work out, from wikipedia, how many Gs a human can survive. From a quick search the Dragon 2 only provides a max of 6G, which is very survivable. According the the font of all knowledge that's in the same range as the top end of F1 turns, pilots can take up to 9Gs in flight suits and for peak loading you're looking at >25Gs in that orientation to do serious harm, although that does depend on how long you're under that acceleration.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Nah, the launch escape system on the manned version can cope with much worse. The astronauts would have been fine.


correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the only escape from a fucked rocket been managed by a pair of cosmonauts back it the day and was hairy as you like? Whereas every other fuck up in the launch portion resulted in loss of all hands.

I'm sure its a great rexit system but still...this shits supposed to get us to mars eventually. If its still blowing up mid launch then eyebrows will be raised. Even musk can't have enough p's to make it happen if all confidence in the program is lost


----------



## Crispy (Jun 29, 2015)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I spent many hours once trying to work out, from wikipedia, how many Gs a human can survive. From a quick search the Dragon 2 only provides a max of 6G, which is very survivable. According the the font of all knowledge that's in the same range as the top end of F1 turns, pilots can take up to 9Gs in flight suits and for peak loading you're looking at >25Gs in that orientation to do serious harm, although that does depend on how long you're under that acceleration.


Ah but the question was about the science experiments on this cargo flight. They'll be designed to cope with launch, but probably not for abort.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 29, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Ah but the question was about the science experiments on this cargo flight. They'll be designed to cope with launch, but probably not for abort.


Good point, they'd probably have been fine as the Falcon 9 is designed for something in the region of a peak 4-5Gs anyway. Not that much of a difference.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the only escape from a fucked rocket been managed by a pair of cosmonauts back it the day and was hairy as you like? Whereas every other fuck up in the launch portion resulted in loss of all hands.


Fairly hairy, but the system performed correctly.


> The two crew members were badly bruised after the high acceleration, but were otherwise in good health and did not require any medical attention. Upon being greeted by recovery crews, they immediately asked for cigarettes to steady their nerves. The cosmonauts were then given shots of vodka to help them relax.


The only loss of life during ascent was _Challenger,_ which of course had no launch escape system. Given that the cockpit section of the craft separated from the breakup, with the astronauts conscious (when the wreck was recovered, the controls had been set for an emergency landing), they would have survived if such a system was present.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 29, 2015)

Tricky business, spaceflight.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 29, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Tricky business, spaceflight.



I'm hoping for a message along the lines of:

54 68 65 79 20 73 65 74 20 75 73 20 75 70 20 74 68 65 20 62 6f 6d 62


----------



## MikeMcc (Jun 30, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Nah, the launch escape system on the manned version can cope with much worse. The astronauts would have been fine.


The Dragon 2 versions for both manned and unmanned flight will have launch abort capability.  Dragon Cargo will only differ from Dragon Crew in terms of internal fittings. Both will have SuperDraco engines and would still be able to carry out an abort at any point up to orbit.  They would still lose the cargo in the unpressurized trunk section though. Were still a while from that though.  I believe the inflight abort test was due in November but has probably slipped with all of the other flights.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 30, 2015)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I'm hoping for a message along the lines of:
> 
> 54 68 65 79 20 73 65 74 20 75 73 20 75 70 20 74 68 65 20 62 6f 6d 62


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2015)

Here's an entertaining video:


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 17, 2015)

Apparently the next launch or two are penciled in for December, however in other SpaceX news it turns out that the ULA has dropped out of the bidding process for the upcoming GPS launch contract, leaving SpaceX as the only bidder. Given the large profit margins on those contracts that could be quite nice for Musk's only profitable company.

ULA sits out Air Force launch competition | Spaceflight Now


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 24, 2015)

Looks like Blue Origin nailed a controlled landing on the pad from nearly 400,000 feet.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 24, 2015)

Very cool. Much higher and faster than any of the SpaceX demos have gone with the Grasshoppers. The landing for the passenger pod mockup looked a bit brutal though, maybe they can borrow a Dragon 2.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 24, 2015)

Shit is O*N *


----------



## MrSki (Nov 24, 2015)

Starts off looking like Space 1999 then with the rocket itself you expect to see the Chuckle brothers.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 24, 2015)

So it seems the BE-3 engine they use is about 2/3 the size of a Merlin 1D. They've had a test model firing for 500 minutes and 450 start/stop cycles. That is really cool, massive re-use.

This really does start bringing the idea of space tourism into the realm of possibility.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 24, 2015)

This is a much easier landing than the SpaceX 1st stage. They can come to a hover, get straight and then land with Thrust < Weight. This is due to very deep throttling of the engine, and I suspect a worse dry mass fraction (smaller rockets have a harder time of it due to scaling being squares and cubes of length). The much larger Falcon 9 1st stage will be coming in almost empty with Thrust > Weight. Means sticking the landing first go, with no ability to hover.

This is undoubtedly much more impressive than Grasshopper, but SpaceX did intend to do this sort of thing with their test rocket before it exploded. Now, they reckon they can do away with the intermediate testing and just go straight for the prize.


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## Bob_the_lost (Nov 24, 2015)

True, a small fraction of the size and power and a much simpler mission however to selectively quote you a bit:


Crispy said:


> SpaceX did intend to  ... before it exploded.


Intentions are great, pulling it off without a giant ball of flame is better.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 24, 2015)

Bob_the_lost said:


> True, a small fraction of the size and power and a much simpler mission however to selectively quote you a bit:
> 
> Intentions are great, pulling it off without a giant ball of flame is better.


Maybe I should remind you of Blue Origin's previous attempt? 

This is hard, but SpaceX still have the lead.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Nov 24, 2015)

Perhaps they do, they're further along on a harder course, but it's odd just how many things SpaceX do that i'm excited about which end with the phrase 'before it exploded'.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 1, 2015)

Twitter rumours say the return to flight is set for the 15th, with a landing attempt on land, back at the cape!


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## MikeMcc (Dec 14, 2015)

Going to be at stupid o'clock in the morning of the 19th.  Still not been confirmed on the return to land yet (though the OCISLY barge hasn't moved from it's mooring yet).  USAF have OKed it but NASA are still deliberating.  It will also be the first flight of the 'Full Thrust' version (previously v1.2).  For those not facebook-phobic this group is quite well informed:

Log in to Facebook | Facebook

It's essentially a fan group, but amoungst it's members it does have SpaceX employees (obviously limited on what they can discuss), journolists covering Space flight and folks that work at KSC (one of which maintains the tracking cameras...)


----------



## Crispy (Dec 14, 2015)

The spacex subreddit is pretty good too. Latest chitchat is leaked stats for the BFR mars rocket. 236 tonnes to LEO. 15m diameter. Height unknown but probably around the 150m mark (for reference, Saturn V was 110m tall and 10m diameter)

Comparison with the F9:

 

Would be the heaviest flying machine ever built, by quite a large margin (although the inter-war rigid airships were larger still).


----------



## MikeMcc (Dec 15, 2015)

That's one scary fucking rocket! Even more impressive will be landing the first stage afterwards...


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## Crispy (Dec 15, 2015)

MikeMcc said:


> That's one scary fucking rocket! Even more impressive will be landing the first stage afterwards...


I don't know what they'll land it *on*. Just the landing thrust will be like the launch of a regular rocket, and they need exhaust deflection and sound suppression systems. It is just a little bit crazy. Full details to come early next year, apparently.


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## 2hats (Dec 21, 2015)

Launch delayed to tonight to improve chances of a successful landing  - the one minute window opens at 0133UTC tomorrow (22nd).


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## Crispy (Dec 21, 2015)

For once, I hope my daughter wakes me up tonight.


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## Crispy (Dec 21, 2015)

This launch (and landing!) is now *tonight* with a 5 minute launch window at 01:29 uk time. Fingers crossed!


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

Two live streams up - direct from SpaceX and on YouTube.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

Done it. Successful boostback and landing of the first stage at CCAFS.





e2a: all Orbcomm satellites deployed. Only the second stage de-orbit to go.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)




----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

Ascent trail to the left, re-entry burn top centre, landing burn on the right of the shot:





Good de-orbit burn of second stage confirmed. It should re-enter over the Indian Ocean around 0230UTC.
e2a: complete replay of the launch, landing through to payload deploy here.


----------



## rover07 (Dec 22, 2015)

Amazing! The cost of launching payloads into space just decreased by at least a factor of 10 and maybe even 100.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

At the moment Orbcomm reporting that 10 out of the 11 deployed satellites 'checked in' whilst passing over a ground station on the first orbit.
e2a: now all 11 have phoned home.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2015)

This is fantastic stuff!


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2015)




----------



## Diamond (Dec 22, 2015)

Absolutely amazing stuff!


----------



## MikeMcc (Dec 22, 2015)

Looks like that absolutely nailed the landing perfectly.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2015)

X marks the spot indeed


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2015)

I am bouncing up and down in my chair. Why isn't this thread rammed hard at the top of New Posts? Why isn't my entire facebook freaking out? IT'S HAPPENING PEOPLE!


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

Though this particular rocket won't be used again. The plan is to static test fire it. Musk has said they will try to re-use a first stage sometime next year...


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2015)

Yeah, I imagine all the fine tooth combs will be out for this one.

I wonder if they'll put a paying customer on the first reused stage? Offer a bargain price and I bet they'll get some interest.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

yeah well unless its vouchers in the newspaper I'm out.

Suspect I couldn't handle micro g anyway.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

4K video of the landing:


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

Another angle on the return trip:


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 22, 2015)

Smashing stuff.

It's like Thunderbirds is coming true after all these years.


----------



## StoneRoad (Dec 22, 2015)

That's a right bit of precision. Well done, SpaceX !

I'm wondering if part of the problem with the barge landings was the ocean swell ?


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

The F9R first stage was travelling at 1.62km/s at MECO (main engine cut off), about 80km up, 90km downrange. It continued on up to 170km as it performed the boost back burn to start deceleration and return to launch site.

For comparison (such as it is) Blue Origin's New Shepherd returns from a peak of 1.28km/s and an altitude of 100km.

I suspect the first stage MECO velocities of the proposed Arianespace and ULA reusable launchers will be higher than the above. It would be interesting to see what the values/profile would be for the F9R for the launch of a geo comsat.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 22, 2015)

Beautiful!


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2015)

2hats said:


> . It would be interesting to see what the values/profile would be for the F9R for the launch of a geo comsat.


I was under the impression that there wasn't enough margin to do RTLS on geo missions?


----------



## 2hats (Dec 22, 2015)

Crispy said:


> I was under the impression that there wasn't enough margin to do RTLS on geo missions?



Ah ok. So no additional savings there for the MEO/HEO slice of the market (generally navigation, comsats, some Earth observation).


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2015)

I think they'll use falcon heavy for geo missions, and recover all three cores.


----------



## T & P (Dec 22, 2015)

rover07 said:


> Amazing! The cost of launching payloads into space just decreased by at least a factor of 10 and maybe even 100.


I know nothing about the economics of space launches but I don't think the savings would be quite as much as that. It will lower the overall cost of course, but I doubt by a factor of 10. If it halves it we'd be doing well imo.


----------



## stdP (Jan 4, 2016)

Ars have some nice grubby pics of the retrieved rocket booster:

New photos of SpaceX booster show sooty, but undamaged rocket


----------



## Crispy (Jan 17, 2016)

I'm sure some of the usual suspects were watching, but spacex flew the last Falcon9 v1.1 today, from Vandenberg on the west coast, carrying a French/Italian ocean science satellite. Primary mission a success, and the barge landing was the closest yet. Made a perfect landing despite the 15 foot swell, but one of the legs failed to lock so it tipped over. They've already improved the legs on the new "Full Thrust" version of the rocket, so next barge attempt should have much better chances.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 18, 2016)

So close!


----------



## fishfinger (Jan 18, 2016)

Bummer


----------



## existentialist (Jan 18, 2016)

Do they get through a lot of cameras on that barge, or are they carefully protected from blast/explosions/fire?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 18, 2016)

Pinpoint accuracy though. That's an amazing achievement by itself.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 18, 2016)

GoPros are cheap enough to be disposable in a situation like this.

Next launch is now set for Feb 6th, from Cape Canaveral. It's a GTO mission and carrying just about the heaviest satellite the F9 can manage to that orbit. They're still going to attempt a barge landing, but there will be so little spare fuel, it will be the fastest and furthest re-entry yet attempted. Some calculations put it at 35kg left in the tanks at touchdown. 35kg! That's barely enough to keep the pipes wet.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 18, 2016)

A Falcon-9 orbited the Jason-3 ocean surface topography satellite yesterday from Vandenberg Air Force Base but didn't quite manage a successful sea barge landing in the Pacific:

Apparently a leg didn't lock into position properly. This might have been due to ice build up after launch in fog:

e2a: serves me right for searching and not scrolling back along the thread  
The satellite is being checked out but appears healthy. It will provide information about circulation patterns in the ocean and global and regional changes in sea level .


----------



## Crispy (Jan 21, 2016)

Dragon 2 does a static (but tethered) hover



(this is the same actual vehicle that did the pad abort test some months ago)


----------



## Crispy (Feb 24, 2016)

launch window opens at 23:46 for a  geostationary orbit mission. razor thin margins, but they've sent out a landing barge nonetheless.

Two options for streaming, one with commentary and one that's just the raw footage and control room mic loop.

With commentary:

Without:


(both go live 5 minutes before the window opens)


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 25, 2016)

can you believe these cunts want to be burning a rocket every two weeks or so in the next two years? And it is no idle boast. They've ramped up production of the cores and  everything. Making it routine, making it industry rather than project. Mental. Who would have thought that the rockets of the 21st would be private enterprise commisioned by nation states. Arg. Think what a defense budget could do if re tooled towards space


----------



## Crispy (Feb 25, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Who would have thought that the rockets of the 21st would be private enterprise commisioned by nation states.


Heinlein? 





> Arg. Think what a defense budget could do if re tooled towards space


So much this 

PS: Launch scrubbed -trying again tonight.


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 25, 2016)

Bugger.

Launch abort at T- 1:41.

Complete scrub for tonight?

ETA: Yup. It's off.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 28, 2016)

Back on for tonight. Launch window opens 23:46 UK time.


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 28, 2016)

Ta.

Reminder set.


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 28, 2016)

Hold at T-1:33.

"Fouled range"

Someone out fishing again?


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 29, 2016)

Abort at 0:00.

Water, flames, everything.

Cause not known yet.

ETA: scrubbed for today. No launch date / time until further notice.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 1, 2016)

Falcon SES-9 mission:

The launch window is tonight at 11:35pm GMT time (6:35pm ET) until 01:05am GMT tomorrow.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 1, 2016)

Nope - launch scrubbed today due to high upper-level winds.

The next attempt will be Friday.

Hey ho.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2016)

Reminder - launch attempt tonight. Window opens 23:35 with webcasts 10m earlier:

Hosted:

Technical:


----------



## 2hats (Mar 5, 2016)

Second stage on target thus far. Unverified report of first stage landing success.

e2a: payload deployed


----------



## 2hats (Mar 5, 2016)

1st stage now confirmed as failed landing.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 5, 2016)

I'm not a huge fan of SpaceX's webcast coverage.

It came live about 10 minutes before launch. I seem to remember it was 20 minutes earlier in the week, so perhaps they feel they've said it all before and it needs no further build up. But it feels grudging: as if they think people only tune in to see the damn thing blow up, and aren't interested in the science.

The heavy broadcast lifting is performed by two bearded versions of Ant and Dec, who innocently stumble over their words, and aim their explanations at Miss Moffatt's Year-3 class. "Right now Falcon is crossing the Indian Ocean. It looks really slow in this graphic, but that's because the ocean is really big..."

Then there's a long intermezzo while the craft readies for a second burn. Obviously this is far too long to fill with comment, information, explanation, or - good God - maybe a hint of the mathematics of achieving different orbital altitudes and geostationary positioning. So the feed goes dead. It says: "Nothing happening here that might blow up. Way too dull for the attention spans of the online community. That colossal 19-minute pause is only fit for broadcast transmission, where the snowbirds can go make cups of tea and replenish supplies of digestive biscuits."

Throughout the broadcast, Ant and Dec are periodically drowned out by joyous screaming and a-whooping and a-hollerin' by staff when Falcon marks a potential blow-up moment by not blowing up. This is not the practised, calm, smooth expectation of scientists seeing their carefully controlled plan being executed flawlessly by technology of relentless precision. This is Miss Moffatt's Year-3 class squealing with delight because the class gerbil's had a baby. Were I a satellite customer, or the customer's insurer, I would be checking I had the Ariane folks on speed-dial.  

Then, suddenly, like the main-engine cut-off itself, it's finished. With a cursory farewell, Ant and Dec hand over web viewers back to their intense online study of 2016's Best Fails: "The burn's over. All the opportunities for explosions are gone. See you soon."

The first stage landing was covered in a flash of bright light then the colour bars. Ant and Dec more or less blanked that one. There wasn't any footage of an explosion, so nothing to talk about. 

Perhaps as a commercial enterprise SpaceX feels no need to be informative more than basic PR dictates. There's little educational content. A couple of third-rate graphics which showed a the geostationary satellite positioned over the USA rather than over its planned destination. Even Ant and Dec had the grace to be embarrassed about that. It was probably just the standard graphic knocked up by the PR team. 

SpaceX sells itself short. The science is nothing short of amazing. The cost of putting it out there is seven-tenths of fuck-all, so why not broadcast it professionally? As purveyors of exciting technology in search of tax dollars, why not make a pitch for the imagination of the public, not by dumbing down to our level, but by dragging us up to theirs?

Anyway, Falcon 10/10. Webcast 3/10.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 5, 2016)

whoopin in the control room is traditional. Have you not seen the films?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2016)

Dragon launching to the ISS tonight. 21:43 launch


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 8, 2016)

Fucking nailed the landing on the droneship. Wow.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2016)

That was beautiful. Perfect weather for it


----------



## de_dog (Apr 8, 2016)

I watched it on NASA TV and saw the furore through the window - whoop it up people, well earned.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2016)




----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 8, 2016)

That first stage is about the same height as a 25-storey building, and a few minutes before it was traveling at thousands of km/h in the opposite direction. *boggles*


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2016)

They're going to need a new hanger to store them all in if they carry on like this


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 9, 2016)

The view just as the first stage reaches the ship, from the stage itself.



That looks like a wobbly platform, to say the least.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 9, 2016)

Part of the payload -  the inflatable BEAM module for the ISS looks interesting...


----------



## NoXion (Apr 9, 2016)

The BA 330 reminds me a lot of the Transhab concept.


----------



## MrSki (Apr 9, 2016)

Looks s bit like the old Thunderbirds!


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2016)

MrSki said:


> Looks s bit like the old Thunderbirds!


It's a direct descendent. After congress banned further development of transhab, Bigelow Aerospace bought the IP.


----------



## coley (Apr 9, 2016)

Crispy said:


> They're going to need a new hanger to store them all in if they carry on like this


It's nowt short of amazing but why such an apparently small barge?  why not a retired tanker or even aircraft carrier which could even be fitted with stabilisers?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2016)

coley said:


> It's nowt short of amazing but why such an apparently small barge?  why not a retired tanker or even aircraft carrier which could even be fitted with stabilisers?


It's not that small really - about the size of a football pitch. And compared to those other options, they're cheap. The positioning thrusters can hold it within a few metres of a GPS location, and the rocket can hit within a few metres of a GPS location. No need for it to be any bigger, really.


----------



## 50yrsInBrixton (Apr 10, 2016)

I'm going to rest here for a moment as the Urban75 junkies hunt me.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2016)

More here.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 14, 2016)

Just to note - live coverage of the BEAM install on NASA TV around 1030BST on Saturday.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 27, 2016)

So, they plan to land a Dragon capsule on Mars in 2018. Better get a move on!

SpaceX plans to land Dragon spacecraft on Mars


----------



## editor (Apr 28, 2016)

Wired seem to think the plan isn't that crazy:

SpaceX’s Plan to Reach Mars by 2018 Is … Actually Not That Crazy


----------



## Crispy (Apr 28, 2016)

It's not. All the pieces are in place.


----------



## Crispy (May 4, 2016)

Night workers, parents of small children and insomniacs take note!

Tomorrow morning at 06:20 UK time, SpaceX will be launching a geostationary commsat. This means another fireball landing attempt far out to sea.


----------



## 2hats (May 5, 2016)

Delayed to 0621BST tomorrow, Friday, due to weather concerns.


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2016)

Success!
Wasn't expecting that!


----------



## MikeMcc (May 6, 2016)

Cracking result, noticed a bit of a fire around the area of the octoweb for a while after the landing.  Different landing profile too, used three engines because of the higher velocities involved.  Great precision on the landing, looks like it was within 2m of dead centre.  Not bad for a profile that essentially slows it from hypersonic speeds and only fires again to just null out the vertical velocity at the point of contact (which is moving in the sea swell!)


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## Crispy (May 6, 2016)

I think the business end of a rocket can cope with a little bit of fire


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## 2hats (May 19, 2016)




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## Crispy (May 26, 2016)

Another launch this evening. Just 3 weeks since the last. This is the sort of pace they need to maintain to clear their backlog now. Another "lively" re-entry and landing attempt following the launch, whose window opens at 22:04 tonight.


----------



## Signal 11 (May 26, 2016)

Apparently delayed until 00:36 BST.

Edit: Called off now.


----------



## Crispy (May 26, 2016)

bah. I value my sleep more highly these days


----------



## 2hats (May 27, 2016)

Now scrubbed until at least 2240BST Friday. Upper stage engine actuator issue.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 27, 2016)

Stage 1 on deck, stage 2 delivering payload


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2016)

They're gonna need a bigger shed, asap!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 28, 2016)




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## Crispy (May 28, 2016)

What a view


----------



## Crispy (May 28, 2016)

Just before the entry burn, the booster pitches down. Just afterwards, it pitches up. This is due to the torque from the turbopumps in the engine spinning up and down.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 15, 2016)

Another launch & landing this afternoon. Window opens 15:29 UK time. Two webcasts as usual:

Hosted (more whooping):



Technical (more comms loop):


----------



## MikeMcc (Jun 15, 2016)

Primary mission was a success.  Unfortunately the landing failed.  Looks like they lost thrust on one of the three engines used for landing.  Elon Musk has already tweeted that they are working on a fix for that!


----------



## MikeMcc (Jul 18, 2016)

Nailed it again. CRS-9 was a perfect launch with stage 1 recovery to land.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2016)

In the webcast, the landing starts here


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2016)

> SpaceX has successfully landed another Falcon 9 rocket after launching the vehicle into space this evening from Cape Canaveral, Florida. Shortly after takeoff, the vehicle touched down at SpaceX’s Landing Complex 1 — a ground-based landing site that the company leases at the Cape. It marks the second time SpaceX has pulled off this type of ground landing, and the fifth time SpaceX has recovered one of its rockets post-launch. The feat was accomplished a few minutes before the rocket's second stage successfully put the company's Dragon spacecraft into orbit, where it will rendezvous with the International Space Station later this week.
> 
> It’s also the first time this year SpaceX has attempted to land one of its rockets on land. For the past six launches, each rocket has tried landing on an autonomous drone shipfloating in the ocean. That’s because drone ship landings require a lot less fuel to execute than ground landings (something we explain here). If a rocket has to accelerate super fast during launch — such as those going to high orbits or ones carrying heavy payloads — it uses up a lot of fuel during the initial takeoff. That leaves less fuel for the rocket to land back on Earth, which means a drone ship landing is sometimes the only option. But for this launch, the mission requirements allowed for a successful landing on ground.


SpaceX successfully lands Falcon 9 rocket on solid ground for the second time


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2016)

A reminder that the SpaceX Mars rocket & spacecraft will be unveiled in September. It will do exactly what this mission just did, except the booster will be MUCH bigger. Here's a mockup based on the details available so far. The little white thing is a person.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 29, 2016)

This 1st stage landed on an ocean platform in April. Here it is running a full-duration test. Another landed stage will fly again in September/October with a paying customer (almost certainly the SES-10 comsat)


----------



## MikeMcc (Aug 8, 2016)

Hopefully have a Falcon Heavy launch late this year, then we'll see two simultaneous return to land returns and an ASDS landing for the core stage.  That will be awesome!


----------



## Crispy (Aug 8, 2016)

Returning two boosters will require an upgrade of the range radar equipment at the cape. It currently only tracks one moving object at a time (sensible really - who would want to launch two rockets at once?!). That equipment is US Air Force so will need some negotiation.

PS: JCSAT-16 (sequel to JCSAT-14 as launched on that booster in the re-use tests) launch this Sunday, early in the morning. Launch window opens 06:26 UK time.


----------



## MikeMcc (Aug 9, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Returning two boosters will require an upgrade of the range radar equipment at the cape. It currently only tracks one moving object at a time (sensible really - who would want to launch two rockets at once?!). That equipment is US Air Force so will need some negotiation.
> 
> PS: JCSAT-16 (sequel to JCSAT-14 as launched on that booster in the re-use tests) launch this Sunday, early in the morning. Launch window opens 06:26 UK time.


Aye, looks like it's pushed back to early next year now.  They've already been upgrading the pad ready for the launches.  The range safety kit is also part of the upgrade and they've only just started the work on LZ-2.

Pad hardware changes preview new era for Space Coast | NASASpaceFlight.com


----------



## 2hats (Sep 1, 2016)

Reports of an explosion at a SpaceX's Cape Canaveral Complex 40 launch pad coming through...



> CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) — An explosion has rocked the SpaceX launch site in Florida.
> 
> NASA says SpaceX was conducting a test firing of its unmanned rocket when the blast occurred Thursday morning. The test, considered routine, was in advance of a planned Saturday launch from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station.
> 
> ...













e2a: beginning to sound like the event occurred during pressurisation prior to the hot fire test. Reportedly one firefighter is being airlifted out. Live pad video (channel 4).
2e2a: possibly a lot of aluminium confetti in that weather radar return


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2016)

Shit.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 1, 2016)

Not clear if the payload was in situ yet. (e2a: reported that no payload on board).

AF 45th Space Wing states that no injuries have been reported - firefighter was surveying the fire, apparently. Sounds like there may have been multiple explosions as more than one tank was compromised by the initial event.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 1, 2016)

SpaceX now confirms payload, Amos 6, was on top and has been lost along with the Falcon 9. Incident due to 'pad issues'.


----------



## teqniq (Sep 1, 2016)




----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 1, 2016)

well, I hope the insurance cover that. £200 mill isn't chump change even to musk


----------



## teqniq (Sep 1, 2016)

Yeah I too was wondering about insurance


----------



## Crispy (Sep 1, 2016)

teqniq said:


> Yeah I too was wondering about insurance


All rockets and satellites are insured.

This is bad news  We were looking forward to a re-flown first stage and maybe even Falcon Heavy before the end of the year, but I doubt we'll see anything fly till 2017 at this rate.

There's still the Mars presentation later this month to look forward to though


----------



## 2hats (Sep 1, 2016)

Crispy said:


> All rockets and satellites are insured.



Except when they're not 

Most are though.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 1, 2016)

All *commercial* satellites then?
I know most science payloads aren't.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 1, 2016)

How many years of no claims bonus do you have? and have you any accidents of anyone's fault in the last five years? Hmm ....


----------



## 2hats (Sep 1, 2016)

Crispy said:


> All *commercial* satellites then?
> I know most science payloads aren't.


Yes. Most governments (and thus usually by extension) science organisations underwrite themselves.


----------



## ffsear (Sep 1, 2016)

Crispy said:


> All *commercial* satellites then?
> I know most science payloads aren't.



different insurance policies cover them at different stages.  1 when its being moved,  1 when it being launched,  another when its in orbit and so on.

Satellite insurance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 1, 2016)

Here's a closer view of the anomaly - tons of secondary explosions


----------



## Mumbles274 (Sep 1, 2016)

Wow


----------



## teqniq (Sep 1, 2016)

I like the way the birds keep happily singing, if nothing else.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 1, 2016)

Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes
Spacecom insured Amos-6 for $285M in marine cargo market, not space insurance market. Launch +1 yr policy would kick in at rocket ignition.

Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes
@cbs_spacenews Sat was insured as marine cargo for pre-launch phase. Launch policy didn't kick in because no ignition-w/-intent-to-launch.


----------



## dilute micro (Sep 2, 2016)

Elon Musk is having a string of bad luck lately.


----------



## 2hats (Sep 5, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes
> Spacecom insured Amos-6 for $285M in marine cargo market, not space insurance market. Launch +1 yr policy would kick in at rocket ignition.
> 
> Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes
> @cbs_spacenews Sat was insured as marine cargo for pre-launch phase. Launch policy didn't kick in because no ignition-w/-intent-to-launch.


Spacecom are seeking $50million or a free flight from SpaceX, apparently.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 5, 2016)

insurance once again proving to be a massive con under capitalism


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2016)

Still no clues as to how it happened.


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2016)

SpaceX test-fires 'Raptor' rocket that will take humans to Mars


----------



## teuchter (Sep 26, 2016)

Apologies that I could not update this thread more promptly with this breaking news but at the weekend I observed a man in a SpaceX t-shirt in Guildford Waitrose.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 26, 2016)

That engadget article is terrible. Full of mistakes, eg:

- Red Dragon is a mission to put a Dragon capsule on mars using a flacon heavy as the launch vehicle
- The Mars rocket will use *many more* engines than 9. We're looking at around 20-30 engines on the 1st stage alone.


----------



## snadge (Sep 26, 2016)

Is this project using Mars direct approach, carrying Hydrogen for refueling whilst on Mars?

Robert Zubrin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mars Direct - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Crispy (Sep 26, 2016)

snadge said:


> Is this project using Mars direct approach, carrying Hydrogen for refueling whilst on Mars?
> 
> Robert Zubrin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Mars Direct - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



We will find out tomorrow when Musk gives his presentation. Streaming live at 19:30 uk time.

Best guesses so far are for in-situ manufacture of all return propellants - CH4 and O2, from Martian ice and air.


----------



## snadge (Sep 26, 2016)

Crispy said:


> We will find out tomorrow when Musk gives his presentation. Streaming live at 19:30 uk time.
> 
> Best guesses so far are for in-situ manufacture of all return propellants - CH4 and O2, from Martian ice and air.



Awesome, I have been a huge fan of Zubrin and have facepalmed so much at NASA and their entitlement.

To save on weight, believe it or not, Zubrin proved that by carrying Hydrogen needed for the CH4 manufacture on Mars was more efficient than having to haul extra equipment for extracting it, the Hydrogen needed was 7% of the total weight of the return journies fuel requirement.

Just noticed, Mars direct Wiki has been edited, glad to see Zubrin has some heavy hitting backing now, NASA should be ashamed of themselves.



> With the potentially imminent advent of low-cost heavy lift capability, Zubrin has posited a dramatically lower cost manned Mars mission using hardware developed by space transport company SpaceX. In this simpler plan, a crew of two would be sent to Mars by a single Falcon Heavy launch, the Dragon spacecraft acting as their interplanetary cruise habitat. Additional living space for the journey would be enabled through the use of inflatable add-on modules if required. The problems associated with long-term weightlessness would be addressed in the same manner as the baseline Mars Direct plan, a tether between the Dragon habitat and the TMI (Trans-Mars Injection) stage acting to allow rotation of the craft.
> 
> The Dragon's heatshield characteristics could allow for a safe descent if landing rockets of sufficient power were made available. Research at NASA's Ames Research Center has demonstrated that a robotic Dragon would be capable of a fully propulsive landing on the Martian surface.[_citation needed_] On the surface, the crew would have at their disposal two Dragon spacecraft with inflatable modules as habitats, two ERVs, two Mars ascent vehicles and 8 tonnes of cargo.




Here is a You Tube Documentary on Zubrin outlining everything.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 26, 2016)

teuchter said:


> Apologies that I could not update this thread more promptly with this breaking news but at the weekend I observed a man in a SpaceX t-shirt in Guildford Waitrose.




SpaceX has offices in Guildford, so no need to rush to the presses with this.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 26, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> SpaceX has offices in Guildford, so no need to rush to the presses with this.


Is it because of the Surrey Space Centre?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 26, 2016)

teuchter said:


> Is it because of the Surrey Space Centre?



Probably, there's a company there that makes satellites called Surrey Satellite Technology and SpaceX is a significant shareholder.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2016)

Live stream at 7.30pm tonight. 



> SpaceX Founder, CEO, and Lead Designer Elon Musk will discuss the long-term technical challenges that need to be solved to support the creation of a permanent, self-sustaining human presence on Mars. The technical presentation will focus on potential architectures for sustaining humans on the Red Planet that industry, government and the scientific community can collaborate on in the years ahead.



Elon Musk’s Mars colonization announcement: start time, live blog, and streaming


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2016)

A countdown to his announcement wtf ..

Your last rocket blew up on the pad, show some humility man!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 27, 2016)

Not humble at all


----------



## ferrelhadley (Sep 27, 2016)




----------



## Yossarian (Sep 28, 2016)

Not going to happen in his lifetime - especially not if he can't stop things from blowing up. Musk's whole plan sounds like something he might have thought up sitting in a fancy tent at Burning Man.


----------



## 2hats (Oct 4, 2016)

Intriguing...


> The long-running feud between Elon Musk’s space company and its fierce competitor United Launch Alliance took a bizarre twist this month when a SpaceX employee visited its facilities at Cape Canaveral, Fla., and asked for access to the roof of one of ULA’s buildings.
> 
> About two weeks earlier, one of SpaceX’s rockets blew up on a launchpad while it was awaiting an engine test. As part of the investigation, SpaceX officials had come across something suspicious they wanted to check out, according to three industry officials with knowledge of the episode. SpaceX had still images from video that appeared to show an odd shadow, then a white spot on the roof of a nearby building leased by ULA, a joint venture between Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
> 
> ...


Source: Washington Post.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2016)

Rather speculative, that article. If ULA *truly* wanted to sabotage SpaceX, there are far less risky ways they could go about it.


----------



## 2hats (Oct 4, 2016)

The most interesting point is the nature of the leads that SpaceX are chasing up...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2016)

I have to say it's rather worrying that they've got as far as such outlandish leads in the first place. One should be able to diagnose one's rocket explosions when they happen right next to you!


----------



## 2hats (Jan 4, 2017)

SpaceX have issued a statement reporting that their investigation (note conclusion not yet approved by the FAA) has traced the cause of the accident to the failure of a composite overwrapped pressure vessel (COPV) in the second-stage liquid oxygen tank. The tank buckled, LOX pooled between the COPV liner and overwrap in a void or a buckle in the liner, and then was ignited by either breaking fibres or friction.  Additionally helium loading temperatures were sufficiently low that solid oxygen may have formed in places which greatly increases the likelihood of LOX pooling and friction ignition.

They plan to address this in the short term by changing the way they load fuel, and in the long term to change the design of the pressure vessel to prevent a repeat of this event.

SpaceX due to return to launch this Sunday (8th Jan) with a Falcon 9 carrying Iridium NEXT 1-10 from Vandenberg.



(Above: the 10 Iridium NEXT satellites mounted on their dispenser and being placed inside the fairing.)


----------



## Crispy (Jan 4, 2017)

2hats said:


> The tank buckled


More accurately, the carbon-fiber overwrapping had a buckle in it, as is inevitable when you try and fold a flat sheet around a doubly curved surface. Such voids are usually filled by the epoxy, but this one must have persisted.


----------



## pocketscience (Jan 4, 2017)

Crispy said:


> More accurately, the carbon-fiber overwrapping had a buckle in it, as is inevitable when you try and fold a flat sheet around a doubly curved surface. Such voids are usually filled by the epoxy, but this one must have persisted.


It's hard to imagine that the engineers at space-x are using 'flat' sheets on such applications (unless of course their budgets are so tight they've taken the risk of doing it themselves to save the costs of having the components designed and built by a company with the right knowledge & hardware).
Automated Fibre Placement (AFP) and Tape Layering (ATL) for spherical surfaces have been the (aerospace) industry standard for well over a decade now. Both methods avoid having to 'fold' the material.
Her'se an ATL example;




Here's ATL;




Obvioulsly a costly solution for short production runs so they may have compromised by trying to do it themselves (unlikely) but my guess is a one off material or manufacturing issue.
Such a part would normally go through extensive destructive testing before approval.
Be interesting what the faa has to say.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 5, 2017)

How does AFP work?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 5, 2017)

teuchter said:


> How does AFP work?


Think of a sticky-tape dispenser on the end of a robot arm.


----------



## pocketscience (Jan 5, 2017)

Yep,, the robot arm/ prepreg fibre or tape variant is normally used for compex surfaces with awkward ply layups. 
For cylindrical parts (such as the pressure cylinders or even aircraft fuselage sections) some companies use a revolving mandrel as a jig and apply the prepreg fibres through a kind of weavers loom.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 5, 2017)

And there's still potential for buckles/voids even with this method, where the curvature is tight.


----------



## pocketscience (Jan 5, 2017)

There sure is but I'd expect such a critical part would have been ultrasound tested for voids or any delamination hotspots.
Actually, reading 2hats' description again it seems to suggest that the voids between the composite wrap and the lining occurred after buckling of the lining, which could point towards a mechaical stress failure just as well as a manufacturing or material issues.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 5, 2017)

The SpaceX anomaly report isn't completely clear on the fine details.

Does their QA let vessels out of the factory with buckles in? I don't know, but more likely (I'm guessing) the liner debonded from the overwrap during cryogenic loading due to thermal stress because they are talking about loading with (relatively) warmer helium in future. (Or perhaps the bonding had been weakened during earlier pressurisation tests and in such future circumstances they don't want to aggravate it to failure).


----------



## 2hats (Jan 6, 2017)

The FAA have accepted the report and the F9/Iridium NEXT launch is now targeted for 1822GMT this coming Monday.


----------



## pocketscience (Jan 6, 2017)

Obviously a slightly more relaxed assessment by the faa for an unmanned space craft than it would have been for your average civil aviation event.


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 13, 2017)

Woo hoo!  Booked into a hotel 30min from Vandenberg tomorrow night so that I can try and watch the launch on Saturday morning.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 14, 2017)

MikeMcc said:


> Woo hoo!  Booked into a hotel 30min from Vandenberg tomorrow night so that I can try and watch the launch on Saturday morning.


Looks like the launch went to plan.
Did you get a good view?


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 15, 2017)

I had a good view but was screwing about with my cameras too much to get really good shots.  Fantastic atmosphere.  There was easily 5000 people there. 2-3 miles of cars on both sides of the approach road.  The noise was phenomenal given that we were four miles form the pad.  There was a bit of a countdown, then a bit a pause because there was a ridge between the road and the pad.  Someone shouted 'There it is!' as it crested the ridge.  I was surprised how bright the exhaust flare was, then the noise hit us , a really loud vibrating roar.  It passed though a layer where there was some condensation around the exhaust and then it was just a small bright dot as it carried on.   I was also surprised how long I could still hear it, especially given how bad my hearing is.  I saw it until MEKO, separation and second stage ignition, but others were saying that they could see the re-entry burn too.

On the way back to the car, some folks had the live stream wired to a speaker and I heard the moments up to the landing.  Lots of cheering, smiles and high-fives.  Fantastic atmosphere.

I'll work out how to post up a couple of shots tomorrow, a bit knackered (but very happy) at the moment!


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 15, 2017)

What an exciting day out MikeMcc, would like to see the photos however they turned out.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 15, 2017)

+1 for photos


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 15, 2017)




----------



## existentialist (Jan 15, 2017)

MikeMcc said:


>



Ah. Permissions.


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 18, 2017)

Bloody pain in the bum. Anybody know how I can fix it?  Tried copying the pics to other sites, but it doesn't seem to work.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 18, 2017)

MikeMcc said:


> Bloody pain in the bum. Anybody know how I can fix it?  Tried copying the pics to other sites, but it doesn't seem to work.


upload direct using the 'upload a file' button next to 'post reply' 

simplest way really.


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 18, 2017)

Ha ha! Cheers for that!


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 18, 2017)

Not shot by me, but very close to where I was stood.  It doesn't really do merit to the wall of sound that you get.  We were 4 miles from the pad and it was still a pounding feeling from the sound.  Apparently the crackling sound at continuing sonic booms from the exhaust.  The exhaust leaves the chambers supersonically, as they decelerate you get the transition giving the shock waves.


----------



## MikeMcc (Jan 18, 2017)

I was easily able to see all the way to MEKO, separation and 2nd Stage start.  Folks around me swore that they were able to see the return burns, but I couldn't. Walking back to the car I came across a group that had a speaker out to monitor the landing and was able to listen to the landing.  Lots of cheers and high fives when they nailed it.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 18, 2017)

Definitely on the bucket list 

(PS: MECO - Main Egine Cut Off)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 18, 2017)

god willing I'll be old and rich enough to watch the mars launch wherever it may go from. I know they haven't even built the rocket yet or put jobcentre notices up for crew but maybe 20 yrs...


----------



## Idaho (Jan 18, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> god willing I'll be old and rich enough to watch the mars launch wherever it may go from. I know they haven't even built the rocket yet or put jobcentre notices up for crew but maybe 20 yrs...


A new life awaits you in the off world colonies.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 3, 2017)

An upcoming GAO report apparently criticises SpaceX over F9 Merlin engine turbopump issues - namely blade cracks. It requires a redesign before the vehicle gets human rated which SpaceX are going to undertake for the block 5 engines (due towards the end of the year).


----------



## Crispy (Feb 3, 2017)

That particular journalist has a history of negative SpaceX articles. If like to see the actual GAO report before coming to any conclusions

Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk


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## Crispy (Feb 7, 2017)

The turbopump blade cracks were identified over a year ago and a redesigned version has flown twice already.

Exclusive: SpaceX to hit fastest launch pace with new Florida site - executive

Incidentally, Elon Musk has bought a used tunnel boring machine cos he was stuck in traffic and thought tunneling would be a good thing to get into. Informed specualtion is that it'll be a re-emergence of the Subterrene from the 70s, which would have used nucelar power to melt/fracture rock.

Atomic Skies: The Atomic Subterrene


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## 2hats (Feb 19, 2017)

CRS-10 successful Dragon launch a few minutes ago to the ISS and F9 first stage return to a ground landing. Nice video all the way down. First launch from LC39A (old shuttle, Apollo launch pad).


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## Crispy (Feb 27, 2017)

SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year

Ambitious indeed!


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## EastEnder (Feb 28, 2017)

Crispy said:


> SpaceX to Send Privately Crewed Dragon Spacecraft Beyond the Moon Next Year
> 
> Ambitious indeed!


Shame it's nothing but publicity seeking bullshit though...

Exactly how many manned space flights have SpaceX achieved to date? Oh yeah, that'd be a big fat ZERO!

I applaud their ambition, but I do wish they'd tone down the unrealistic press releases. Yes, I'm sure they'll get there in the end, but making grandiose claims about a manned moon orbit mission by next year is more about raising their profile & boosting Musk's ego.


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## lefteri (Feb 28, 2017)

Crispy said:


> Incidentally, Elon Musk has bought a used tunnel boring machine cos he was stuck in traffic and thought tunneling would be a good thing to get into. Informed specualtion is that it'll be a re-emergence of the Subterrene from the 70s, which would have used nucelar power to melt/fracture rock.
> 
> Atomic Skies: The Atomic Subterrene



Or he'll use it build the underground lair befitting of someone who's name sounds like a bond villain


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## editor (Feb 28, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Shame it's nothing but publicity seeking bullshit though...
> 
> Exactly how many manned space flights have SpaceX achieved to date? Oh yeah, that'd be a big fat ZERO!
> 
> I applaud their ambition, but I do wish they'd tone down the unrealistic press releases. Yes, I'm sure they'll get there in the end, but making grandiose claims about a manned moon orbit mission by next year is more about raising their profile & boosting Musk's ego.


Mind you. I'll have a ticket if there's one going spare.


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## ferrelhadley (Feb 28, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Exactly how many manned space flights have SpaceX achieved to date? Oh yeah, that'd be a big fat ZERO!


And? 10 years ago they had not achieved orbit, no commercially funded vehicle had. Now they are regular suppliers of the ISS. The vehicle they use is pressurised and is successfully returned to Earth. Its almost a matter of strapping chairs in to turn it into a human vehicle. The two big obstacles are the new launch vehicle and the return velocity. Id happily put even money on them doing it by 2020.


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## EastEnder (Feb 28, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> And? 10 years ago they had not achieved orbit, no commercially funded vehicle had. Now they are regular suppliers of the ISS. The vehicle they use is pressurised and is successfully returned to Earth. Its almost a matter of strapping chairs in to turn it into a human vehicle. The two big obstacles are the new launch vehicle and the return velocity. Id happily put even money on them doing it by 2020.


I don't doubt they'll do it, I'm just highly sceptical of a manned trip round the moon by the end of next year. They've not yet completed a single manned flight, even to LEO. And if they rush things, and there's a fatal accident as a result, it'll put their efforts back considerably - the loss of confidence in their capabilities could be very grave. We're not in a race to the moon like in the 60's, so any impression that they ran before than could walk would be seriously bad. 

They need to show that they can safely send humans to orbit, and return them, several times at least. They need to show they can send an unmanned human-certified craft around the moon, and return it safely. Only then could they even consider sending a manned craft around the moon, to do so sooner would be wholly reckless. So when Musk says he can do all that before the end of next year, I stand by my assertion that that is unrealistic & he's saying it more for the publicity, rather than because he genuinely believes it to be viable.


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## EastEnder (Mar 1, 2017)

Seems I'm not the only one who's got an issue with SpaceX's overly ambitious press releases:

If you think NASA is frustrated with SpaceX, you’re probably right



> The second part of NASA's statement on SpaceX's lunar-tourism news offers some insight into how the space agency really feels about the latest announcement. The agency says, "We will work closely with SpaceX to ensure it safely meets the contractual obligations to return the launch of astronauts to US soil and continue to successfully deliver supplies to the International Space Station."
> 
> Roughly translated, this means: Dear SpaceX, we have stood by you. We have given you $3 billion for crew services, the majority of your revenues in recent years, and we are desperately tired of relying on Russia to get our astronauts to the space station. Could you please focus on our contract? Like, now?
> 
> A more blunt assessment was offered by Mary Lynne Dittmar, who is familiar with the thinking of NASA's human spaceflight program managers. *“I find it extraordinary that these sorts of announcements are being made when SpaceX has yet to get crew from the ground to low-Earth orbit,"* she told _The_ _New York Times_.


----------



## editor (Mar 3, 2017)

Another doubter speaks



> "Even with today's technology, it's still an extraordinarily difficult, extraordinarily dangerous task to undertake, period — I don't care who you are," said Hale, who retired from NASA in 2010 and now serves as director of human spaceflight at the Colorado-based engineering company Special Aerospace Services.
> SpaceX could pull off a crewed lunar loop eventually, Hale said, but he's skeptical that the mission will happen next year.
> 
> "I think their schedule is so aggressive as to not be believable," he told Space.com.
> ...


Could SpaceX Really Launch People Around the Moon Next Year?


----------



## MikeMcc (Mar 30, 2017)

Next launch is scheduled for tomorrow (30-Mar-17) at 18:27 EDT, 23:27 BST (with a window of 2.5 hours).  SES-10 will be the first to use a previously flown booster first stage.  It was used to lift the CRS-8 payload to ISS in April last year and took four months to refurbish.  They are aiming to recover the booster again on the drone-ship OCISLU, but it will have been used much harder than the previous flight since SES-10 is aiming for a GTO orbit.  The static test fire has already been completed without issues.


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## Crispy (Mar 30, 2017)

Well that was awesome


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## T & P (Mar 31, 2017)

Crispy said:


> Well that was awesome


Great news 

Do we have any figures, however approximate, on how much they could save by reusing the rocket? I realise it'd depend on how many uses they can get out of a typical unit..


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## MikeMcc (Mar 31, 2017)

They've said that they are giving discounts of 10% at the moment and SES got more for this flight, I would expect that to increase as reliability and re-use increases.  The Block-5 version will start to be used later this year and will have a host of improvements, IIRC that they are aiming for 10 flights per booster.  I think one of the cores on the Falcon Heavy demo flight is also going to be a previously flown core.

 They are also improving ground operations, trialling a device that's been nicknamed Roomba, a low height tracked vehicle that can run under a landed booster and swing four arms up to grab the booster.

SpaceX Droneship 'Roomba' Envisioning


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## MikeMcc (Mar 31, 2017)

Woo hoo, they landed the fairings too!



Looks like they actually landed at a desired point but there was no plan to recover these ones.


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## The Octagon (Mar 31, 2017)

Historic stuff 

Now, let's get our asses to Mars.


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## Crispy (Mar 31, 2017)

T & P said:


> Great news
> 
> Do we have any figures, however approximate, on how much they could save by reusing the rocket? I realise it'd depend on how many uses they can get out of a typical unit..


Depends entirely on the cost of refurb (and of course there's the devlopment cost of all this reusability tech to pay off). Musk reckons 30% discount for near-term re-flown stages.


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## ferrelhadley (Mar 31, 2017)

MikeMcc said:


> They've said that they are giving discounts of 10% at the moment and SES got more for this flight, I would expect that to increase as reliability and re-use increases.  The Block-5 version will start to be used later this year and will have a host of improvements, IIRC that they are aiming for 10 flights per booster.  I think one of the cores on the Falcon Heavy demo flight is also going to be a previously flown core.
> 
> They are also improving ground operations, trialling a device that's been nicknamed Roomba, a low height tracked vehicle that can run under a landed booster and swing four arms up to grab the booster.
> 
> SpaceX Droneship 'Roomba' Envisioning



They are operating in an environment of high cost low frequency launches. This gives the the cash per flight of a disposable rocket. The interesting thing is that follower companies will not have this if SpaceX are able to achieve 10 launches per rocket. They will see falling costs from material and fabrication plus increasing customers as costs fall. If you are not already on this tread mill it could be a very hard act to learn the skills of reusable cheap rockets in an economy where one dominant player has the volume and the skills already. If they pull this off and they are maybe 2/3rds there, this will be one of the disruptive technologies of the next 30 years.

They also have a good chance of growing their market by creating demand from falling costs.


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## Crispy (Mar 31, 2017)

Blue Origin are building up a head of steam in the background. Musk had 100s of $millions to self-start Spacex. Bezos has 10s of $_billions _in his pocket and can effectively support BO for as long as it takes for it to succeed, customers be damned.


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## MikeMcc (Apr 1, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> They are operating in an environment of high cost low frequency launches. This gives the the cash per flight of a disposable rocket. The interesting thing is that follower companies will not have this if SpaceX are able to achieve 10 launches per rocket. They will see falling costs from material and fabrication plus increasing customers as costs fall. If you are not already on this tread mill it could be a very hard act to learn the skills of reusable cheap rockets in an economy where one dominant player has the volume and the skills already. If they pull this off and they are maybe 2/3rds there, this will be one of the disruptive technologies of the next 30 years.
> 
> They also have a good chance of growing their market by creating demand from falling costs.


I think the driver for the super-fast turnaround times is Elon Musk's project for a low-cost satellite based broadband.  He would require >4000 LEO satellites for the full network.  To deliver that in a realistic timescale, as well as trying to relieve the backlog of launches that they are suffering from, he will need a much higher launch cadence.  From the articles I've seen, his potential income from that project has the ability to be far greater than that from SpaceX, I believe he's looking at that to fund his Mars Colonization project.

It's one hell of a target, but it does imply that he his looking forwards to almost airliner levels of reliability (Ok, you don't refurb an airliner after 10 flights, but then even Concorde go through the same stresses).


----------



## 2hats (Apr 12, 2017)

Close ups of that last barge landing...


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## MikeMcc (Apr 30, 2017)

NROL launch scrubbed until tomorrow due to a sensor issue in the 1st Stage


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## 2hats (May 1, 2017)

Live NROL launch coverage is up and running. Launch expected at 1215BST from LC39A. The betting is currently on a SAR imaging satellite to a high inclination (50-60 degree) orbit. Coverage of the upper stage will end at payload fairing separation but they should cover the return to landing zone 1 of the the first stage.


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## 2hats (May 1, 2017)

Nice video of the return of the first stage…


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## ferrelhadley (May 1, 2017)




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## Crispy (May 1, 2017)

Well that was spectacular

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## ferrelhadley (May 1, 2017)

List of Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launches - Wikipedia
That is one very ambitious launch manifest they have there.


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## DotCommunist (May 1, 2017)

spysat apparently. A blog reported it as 'shrouded in secrecy'. So shrouded it was broadcast live and you are reporting on it. Clickbait wankers


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## 2hats (May 1, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> spysat apparently. A blog reported it as 'shrouded in secrecy'. So shrouded it was broadcast live and you are reporting on it. Clickbait wankers


Various factors (payload contractor bus choice, range safety constraints, launch vehicle performance and ascent profile, launch time and post-scrub recycling timings, mission patch) all hint at a high inclination, low Earth orbit synthetic aperture radar imaging satellite (and tend to rule out other roles eg elint/sigint/comsat for GEO/MEO/HEO, or LEO visual imagery).


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## 2hats (May 12, 2017)

First Falcon Heavy core static fire test:


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## 2hats (May 15, 2017)

Falcon-9 launch tonight at 0021BST (49 minute launch window) to carry the Inmarsat 5 F4 communications satellite to supersynchronous orbit (augmenting the Global Xpress broadband network). This will be at the performance limit of the vehicle due to payload mass and targeted delivery orbit so no recovery of the first stage (it will plunge into the Atlantic downrange).


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## Crispy (May 15, 2017)

Looks kinda naked without the legs and fins


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## 2hats (May 24, 2017)

The F9 NROL 76 spysat payload (now officially designated USA 276), launched 1st May, has been confirmed as being in a 400km high, 50 degree orbit, so most likely a radar imaging satellite.

Next SpaceX launch is due 1st June to carry CRS12 to the ISS. (e2a) The current launch time (around 2256BST) will probably facilitate being able to see the second stage and Dragon over the UK, some 15 minutes or so after launch (though a day or two delay in launch would improve the chances until it is lost in daylight glare).


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## NoXion (May 25, 2017)

SpaceX Technician Says Concerns About Tests Got Him Fired


 
				Ex-employee says management told workers to ignore protocols			 

 
				Company tells jury he was terminated for poor job performance			 





			
				Bloomberg.com said:
			
		

> A former Space Exploration Technologies Corp. technician was fired for complaining to management that rocket-building test protocols weren’t followed and results were falsified, jeopardizing the safety of eventual manned trips into orbit, his lawyer told a jury.
> 
> Jason Blasdell claims he took his concerns as high as SpaceX founder and Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk in the months before he was terminated in 2014, purportedly for being “disruptive."
> 
> ...



I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that corner-cutting is how SpaceX has seemingly managed to achieve so much so quickly.


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## Crispy (Jun 1, 2017)

Tonight's launch is to the ISS, with the booster returning to Cape Canaveral for the landing. What makes this launch exciting for us here in the UK is that we should be able to actually see the spacecraft in the sky, before it's even made its first orbit.

Launch is scheduled for 22:55 tonight, and it should fly above Southern England/Northern France 18 minutes later. Look West at around 23:13 (but I'd give yourself a few minutes beforehand - this isn't an accurate prediction), just to the right of the setting moon. Dragon should arc across the Southern sky for about 2m30s before disappearing into the Earth's shadow. The discarded 2nd stage should be flying more or less in formation, having only separated 5 minutes prior.

And then because it's headed to the ISS's orbit, it means that you'll see the ISS follow the same trajectory a little later at 23:33.

If you head outside earlier in the evening, you'll be able to see the ISS make a very close overhead pass at 21:57, from West to East almost directly overhead for about 5 minutes. This is about as good a view as you can get from here.

Now, fuck off clouds.


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## 2hats (Jun 1, 2017)

Crispy said:


> Dragon should arc across the Southern sky for about 2m30s before disappearing into the Earth's shadow. The discarded 2nd stage should be flying more or less in formation, having only separated 5 minutes prior.


If you have a dark enough sky and/or binoculars you should see up to four objects - the Dragon, the Falcon upper stage and two separate solar array covers all in proximity to each other.

Rough path of CRS-11 as seen from London for an on time launch:


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## Crispy (Jun 1, 2017)

2hats: From right to left, _descending?_


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## 2hats (Jun 1, 2017)

Crispy said:


> From right to left, _descending?_


Sorry, yes. Climbing from the right (western horizon) beginning 23:10:39BST, culminating in the SSW at 23:14:25BST (just past Arcturus) and then entering eclipse at 23:14:53BST (between Hercules and Ophiuchus). Though I suspect the estimated orbit used for that calculation will be running something like 51 seconds early (so culmination would actually be more like around 23:15:16BST). Of course the final state vector for the targeted initial orbit will most likely only be computed in the final half hour or so prior to launch so precise launch time and/or degree of out of plane steering back into the target orbital plane may vary which will skew the timing a little.

Full sky view from London (North top, Western horizon to the right):


Additionally, intriguingly, the recent F9 NROL payload (USA 276) is now in an orbit closely following the ISS. If its orbit isn’t changed over the next couple of days then during the CRS-11 approach and berthing USA-276 will pass very close (almost within 20 km at times). There is some speculation that one of the packages on USA-276 may be a technology demonstrator for monitoring other satellites operations in orbit.


PS Now I recall, I did see the ascending CRS-6 over the UK back in April 2015 and posted about it here. From a suburban sky I clocked all four items - the Dragon, the upper stage and the two solar array covers.

Update: Launch now targeted for 22:55:53BST.


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## Crispy (Jun 1, 2017)

weather's not looking too promising :-/

EDIT: That pass of the ISS was the best I've ever seen. Clear dusk sky, and right overhead at a real clip.


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## 2hats (Jun 1, 2017)

Looks like it is going to be a scrub due to lightning rule violations (strike within 10nmi the clearing time of which would over run the launch window). 48 hour turnaround, which should mean it’ll still be possible to spot it on Saturday if the weather here co-operates (launch targeted at 22:07:26BST).

PS If you are all wound up for a launch tonight then an Ariane 5 is due off in about 2 hours at 0045BST.


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## ferrelhadley (Jun 1, 2017)

2hats said:


> 48 hour turnaround,


Them super chilled oxygen tanks have their drawbacks.


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## Crispy (Jun 2, 2017)

2hats said:


> it’ll still be possible to spot it on Saturday if the weather here co-operates (launch targeted at 22:07:26BST)


So do *all* ISS missions overfly England/Europe? Or do they launch on the descending node as well?
Obviously the timing has to be right for the spacecraft to be in sunlight while it's dark down here.

(PS: 48h turnaround because one of the science payloads needs to be taken out of the capsule and have its temporary coolant refreshed)


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## 2hats (Jun 2, 2017)

Crispy said:


> So do *all* ISS missions overfly England/Europe? Or do they launch on the descending node as well?


All shuttle missions to ISS launched on the ascending node (to provide for sufficient space downrange to recover SRBs and dump the external tank, plus to provide for trans-atlantic contingency abort sites); I imagine the F9 does likewise for similar reasons - ie range safety - much more empty ocean to play with (a descending node would get too close to the Bahamas/Lesser Antilles).


> Obviously the timing has to be right for the spacecraft to be in sunlight while it's dark down here.


Particularly Earth shadow - if the pass starts to run too late into the night then the satellite can be eclipsed, especially on the first (lower) ascent pass. The height of the Earth’s shadow in your local sky varies greatly seasonally. It is shortest and provides for the longest viewing window at our latitudes in the summer. This delay actually improves the viewing circumstances (the launch time to the ISS moves back about 24 minutes per day as the orbital plane precesses westwards).


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## Crispy (Jun 2, 2017)

I had a quick google and the Orbital Taurus sometimes launches Cygnus missions on the descending node. Their launch site is further up the coast so they must avoid the islands.


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## 2hats (Jun 2, 2017)

Crispy said:


> I had a quick google and the Orbital Taurus sometimes launches Cygnus missions on the descending node. Their launch site is further up the coast so they must avoid the islands.


Wallops? Yes, lots more ocean to play with but of course less ‘free’ delta-V (and thus payload capacity) from the Earth’s rotation.

Weather at KSC not looking that great for a Saturday launch attempt - 70% chance of rain and lightning. Here the skies look like they might be clearer...


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## 2hats (Jun 2, 2017)

The weather forecast for Saturday now has a 40% probability of launch weather constraint violation (arising from the anvil cloud rule, the cumulus cloud rule and risk of flight through precipitation) and 50% if delayed (the weather forecast looks to be even less favourable from Monday onwards).


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## 2hats (Jun 3, 2017)

Tonight from London for a launch at 22:07:26BST sees it rising in the W at 22:25:35BST, culminating in the SSW at 22:29:26BST, heading to the ESE by 22:31:14BST. North to the top, West to the right:
 
No change in the launch weather forecast so far.


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## 2hats (Jun 3, 2017)

Launch now 22:07:38BST so add about 12 seconds to the previous times (the predictions are best estimates anyway).


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## 2hats (Jun 3, 2017)

Could see all 4 objects (Dragon, upper stage and the two solar panel covers) naked eye from central, rural UK. Nice view. Very bright. Almost looked like some large, silent aircraft (navigation lights) as it headed down to the SE.

As seen from Somerset this evening just (this was pretty much as it appeared naked eye):


e2a: and of course, not to forget the launch and first stage recovery…


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## 2hats (Jun 4, 2017)

A very clear video of the ascent pass taken from Oxfordshire last night, details RCS burst visible about 1m11s in:


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2017)

There was 100% cloud cover in London: (


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2017)

But tonight it's clear, so we should be able to see the ISS, the just-departed Cygnus, and the on-approach Dragon all in the same pass (how close I can't find out)

This is the ISS track:


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## 2hats (Jun 4, 2017)

Crispy said:


> But tonight it's clear, so we should be able to see the ISS, the just-departed Cygnus, and the on-approach Dragon all in the same pass (how close I can't find out)


The latest data I can find has the Dragon running about 5m56s ahead of the ISS. I think (guess) Cygnus should be several seconds behind the ISS.


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2017)

Well I saw something about 15m *ago* which was in the right place, but didn't see anything accompanying ISS for at least a few mintes either side...


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## 2hats (Jun 4, 2017)

I’ve just seen the ISS and no Cygnus. A report from someone else, on the near continent, looking on a previous pass indicates Cygnus wasn’t visible to them either, so possibly quite a dim target. The timing for the Dragon is almost certainly based on too old data now (I looked several minutes either side of the ISS pass just and couldn’t spot anything, but the sky is still quite bright). Though if you keep watching the ISS plane for up to 90 minutes after the ISS pass you are bound to see the Dragon eventually 

Ah - just heard Cygnus has been seen (on the pass just) about 1 minute behind the ISS and the Falcon 9 upper stage was seen tumbling about 19 minutes before the ISS arrived - e2a though I doubt it can have been that since SpaceX report they de-orbited it over the Indian Ocean some hours ago (indeed, now appears to have been some other unrelated upper stage).


----------



## Crispy (Jun 4, 2017)

Ah that was what I saw - it was varying in brightness.


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## 2hats (Jun 5, 2017)

OK, seems the +1 mag object currently trailing the ISS by 85 seconds is the Dragon and the Cygnus (much fainter) is trailing the ISS by about 25 seconds. Another ISS pass low in the W-SW is due shortly starting 00:08BST, entering Earth shadow 00:12:35BST below and between Jupiter and the Moon.


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## elmpp (Jun 6, 2017)

NoXion said:


> SpaceX Technician Says Concerns About Tests Got Him Fired
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Corner-cutting their way to reliable space travel


----------



## NoXion (Jun 6, 2017)

elmpp said:


> Corner-cutting their way to reliable space travel


 The thing with corner-cutting is that while it is possible to get away with it, the more it is done and the longer it is done, the more the chances are that it will come back to bite one on the arse.


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## 2hats (Jun 6, 2017)

NoXion said:


> The thing with corner-cutting is that while it is possible to get away with it, the more it is done and the longer it is done, the more the chances are that it will come back to bite one on the arse.


"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."


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## 2hats (Jun 7, 2017)

Reuters are reporting that SpaceX has been awarded a contract by the USAF to launch the X-37B starting this August.


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## A380 (Jun 26, 2017)

Two reusable launches today. I wonder what their cost per kg to orbit is now? 

SpaceX completes launch and landing double bill - BBC News


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## Crispy (Jun 27, 2017)

A380 said:


> Two reusable launches today. I wonder what their cost per kg to orbit is now?
> 
> SpaceX completes launch and landing double bill - BBC News



Cost or price? You can be assured that the reflown stages are priced lower than brand new ones, but not by that much. Until there is more competition, SpaceX will want to recoup as much of their investment into reusablility tech as they can.


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## Crispy (Sep 14, 2017)

Compliation of all the F9 1st stage crashes, including lots of unseen footage. Boom!


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## MikeMcc (Sep 19, 2017)

The lurching booster is painful to watch.  Apparently it will be one of the side boosters on the FH Demo flight though!


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2017)

Updated BFR presentation. Smaller (from 12 -> 9m diameter). 150t to LEO.
Landing accuracy good enough to come straight back down on the launch mount 

Presentation:



Oh, and you can also use it for point-to-point travel. less than one hour, to anywhere on the planet.



They're going to build out a stock of F9s and upper stages to keep the backs covered, but otherwise it's full speed ahead for this design to be the only rocket they fly.


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## ferrelhadley (Sep 29, 2017)

Big Fucking Rocket? (as in BUFF)


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## DotCommunist (Sep 29, 2017)

well, its an almost banksian name for a spacecraft...


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## Crispy (Sep 29, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> Big Fucking Rocket? (as in BUFF)


Yep. Reference to the BFG 9000 gun from DOOM


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## mauvais (Oct 3, 2017)

I would like to know just one little thing: in this brave new world where we all get about between cities by, err, ICBM, do we all die in a lovely fire when the first person forgets to file their flight plan with Moscow?


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## Crispy (Oct 3, 2017)

mauvais said:


> I would like to know just one little thing: in this brave new world where we all get about between cities by, err, ICBM, do we all die in a lovely fire when the first person forgets to file their flight plan with Moscow?


Probably.

This point-2-point idea is technically feasible and makes great PR, but will never happen politically.


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## ferrelhadley (Oct 3, 2017)

mauvais said:


> I would like to know just one little thing: in this brave new world where we all get about between cities by, err, ICBM, do we all die in a lovely fire when the first person forgets to file their flight plan with Moscow?


In the same way we currently fly between cities on strategic bombers.


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## ferrelhadley (Oct 9, 2017)

NASA’s Commercial Crew Program Target Test Flight Dates | Commercial Crew Program

Space X crewed vehicle has a slippage, now set for March 18 as an uncrewed demonstration and August 18 as a first crewed flight. 
Boeing's schedule being August and November 18 respectively. 

FWIW Space X going for 2 launches in 3 days later today. 

China and Japan have orbital flights going up this week as well.


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## ferrelhadley (Oct 14, 2017)

Falcon Heavy slipped to December, the company citing launch pad availability due to damage to one of the launch pads from last years explosions and scheduling on the 39A pad. 

I think most serious observers including from Space X have high expectations of a failure. Very very few new launch systems go up without an early failure or three. 

They are also pushing a new satellite constellation for internet provision
SpaceX satellite constellation - Wikipedia

A wild guess would suggest they would target cash rich low population density regions first, Australian outback, US south west, Scandanavia etc. If it works. 

I am still thinking their core goal will be automated water mining from asteroids, the future "oil" of space travel.


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## Crispy (Dec 15, 2017)




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## cybershot (Dec 15, 2017)

American's woo'ing and clapping.


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## editor (Dec 15, 2017)

Crispy said:


>



Amazing stuff. Bring on the Moon and Mars!


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## Crispy (Dec 15, 2017)

cybershot said:


> American's woo'ing and clapping.


I'd woo and clap if that was a rocket I'd help build


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## Limejuice (Dec 16, 2017)

Rocket launches make me unaccountably happy.


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## Crispy (Dec 20, 2017)

Falcon Heavy is in the house hanger!

















The most powerful rocket in the world, ladies and gents


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## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 23, 2017)

The most recent launch out of Vandenberg - delivering a bunch of Iridium satellites - freaked quite a lot of people out in California. Understandably so, I think.



Media chopper raw footage


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## NoXion (Dec 24, 2017)

Crispy said:


> Falcon Heavy is in the house hanger!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks like they've just welded three rockets together.

Very Kerbalesque.


----------



## coley (Dec 25, 2017)

NoXion said:


> It looks like they've just welded three rockets together.
> 
> Very Kerbalesque.


'Group hug'


----------



## T & P (Jan 4, 2018)

The first Falcon Heavy rocket is now on the launchpad ahead of its maiden flight later this month.

Musk being Musk, he's sending a Tesla Roadster into space for the test flight, rather than using concrete blocks 

Behold! SpaceX's 1st Falcon Heavy Rocket on the Launchpad (Photos, Video)


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 4, 2018)

T & P said:


> The first Falcon Heavy rocket is now on the launchpad ahead of its maiden flight later this month
> 
> Behold! SpaceX's 1st Falcon Heavy Rocket on the Launchpad (Photos, Video)


Plus...

There's a Falcon 9 launch scheduled between 01.00 and 03.00 GMT on Saturday 6th January.

Launch Schedule – Spaceflight Now

Rockets!



EDIT: Now Monday 8th Jan at 01.00 GMT.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 5, 2018)

I wonder if they plan to land the Falcon Heavy boosters back on earth as well?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 5, 2018)

weltweit said:


> I wonder if they plan to land the Falcon Heavy boosters back on earth as well?


Yep. Centre core downrange on the boat. Side boosters return to the cape for an almost simultaneous landing on two adjacent pads.


----------



## weltweit (Jan 5, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Yep. Centre core downrange on the boat. Side boosters return to the cape for an almost simultaneous landing on two adjacent pads.


I wonder if there is any computery to prevent the two side boosters colliding as they return?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 5, 2018)

weltweit said:


> I wonder if there is any computery to prevent the two side boosters colliding as they return?


Yeah I suspect the boostback burns will be subtly different. The landings will probably be separated by a minute or so


----------



## weltweit (Jan 5, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Yeah I suspect the boostback burns will be subtly different. The landings will probably be separated by a minute or so


Aha, yes that sounds like a logical and simple solution


----------



## T & P (Jan 5, 2018)

Presumably the second stage is not reusable and it will simply fall down to Earth when the fairing sends the payload on its merry way into space?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 5, 2018)

T & P said:


> Presumably the second stage is not reusable and it will simply fall down to Earth when the fairing sends the payload on its merry way into space?


For most low earth orbit missions, the 2nd stage does a 180 and decelerates in order to re-enter over open ocean. For geosynchronous and high-performance LEO missions, they just wait for the orbit to decay (which all atmosphere-grazing orbits will do after a while). They re-enter where they will and most of the stage burns up. Sometimes pressure vessels or structural pieces survive and land in the sea or on land.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 9, 2018)

Limejuice said:


> There's a Falcon 9 launch scheduled between 01.00 and 03.00 GMT on Saturday 6th January.


That F9 lofted the new Zuma spy satellite* which some sources are indicating has (expensively for the spooks/taxpayer) failed at insertion. The F9 appears to have performed fine - Falcon Heavy flow processing hasn’t been disrupted which suggests the rocket operated as expected, plus the upper stage was spotted shortly after venting/de-orbit burn out over Africa by an eagle eyed cargo pilot.





Payload (or some remains thereof) are possibly in a roughly circular, mid-inclination orbit, around 1000km up, which means it might be visible within the next week to some seasoned observers who will provided the first clues as to what state it is in.

* if it doesn’t become operational then hints about the actual purpose of Zuma may never be yielded up (one speculation is that its role would have been to close rendezvous with other LEO satellites and survey them, maybe even disable them or with a view to being able to do so in the future).

e2a: though worth pointing out that there was a previous NRO launch where they tried to pass the main payload off as debris from a failure (or rather create the impression of such) so everything may not be as it seems.


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 9, 2018)

That's a bummer. I'm no fan of big surveillance or whatever, but a total loss is disappointing for the rocket business.

Understandably, everyone involved is tight-lipped about what happened. But I love the SpaceX quote: "...as of right now reviews of the data indicate Falcon 9 performed nominally."

Which translates as: "not our fault, no siree."

Highly classified US spy satellite appears to be a total loss after SpaceX launch

Hey ho. They'll just have to build another one - hashtag more jobs for rocket scientists.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2018)

Lots of smoke but no fire to this. Very few on-the-record statements. Smells like a cover story to me.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 9, 2018)

Limejuice said:


> Highly classified US spy satellite appears to be a total loss after SpaceX launch


Which states:


> The payload was suspected to have burned up in the atmosphere after failing to separate perfectly from the upper part of the SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket, the report said.


The WSJ reported it failed to separate from the upper stage.

Those though don't really add up with the independent observations thus far and the fact that USSTRATCOM have catalogued Zuma (as USA 280) which would imply it completed at least one orbit.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2018)

Could well have been a re-entry or hypersonic test, hence lack of orbit (and seeming unimportance of launch window timing)


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 9, 2018)

Let's keep watching the skies.

The truth is out there.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 9, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Could well have been a re-entry or hypersonic test, hence lack of orbit (and seeming unimportance of launch window timing)


Probably not. It is suspected that launch timing was being tweaked with respect to a set of satellites they could visit.

The observed pattern:




_might_ suggest an out of control, unbalanced de-orbit burn - eg payload failed to separate from upper stage (or adapter), leaving both in orbit. Will be interesting to see if anything is spotted, tumbling, in the coming days/weeks (assuming no premature re-entry).


----------



## a_chap (Jan 9, 2018)

2hats said:


> Will be interesting to see if anything is spotted, tumbling, in the coming days/weeks (assuming no premature re-entry).



Not sure that would prove anything; all discarded upper stages tumble in orbit.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 9, 2018)

a_chap said:


> Not sure that would prove anything; all discarded upper stages tumble in orbit.


The upper stage was meant to be disposed of over the Pacific. Observation of what is left (additional objects, cloud of debris, degree of stabilisation and how that evolves over time) will hint at what happened and whether what is left is under control or inert.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 9, 2018)

The Falcon Heavy static fire test is due tomorrow, Wednesday, between 1800UTC-midnight.

This will be started as a full wet dress rehearsal with fuel pumped through to all engines in the first and second stages. If all goes to book they will at some point (note they may delay this stage until happy and that could be anytime up until the weekend) elect to roll into a full static fire test, in which case all 27 engines will be lit (in pairs in a staggered sequence to reduce thrust torque) for a few seconds.

If this test goes to plan and they are happy with the results then they may take a shot at a heavy launch towards the end of the month (no earlier than 25 Jan has been floated).

Back to Zuma: (assuming this isn’t a cover) it sounds like the upper stage set itself up for disposal on the following orbit (~1.5 after launch), hence got catalogued:




but possibly the third party adaptor failed to separate the payload from the upper stage, so that disposal (the burn may have been over specified) could have brought the whole lot back in a rather unplanned fashion. Subsequently a USSTRATCOM spokesperson has stated that they are not tracking anything in orbit (this scenario reconciles the 'not tracking anything' with the fact there is something in the catalogue - anything that stays up for >= 1.5 orbits gets catalogued, is the normal procedure).

PS another spysat (NRO radar satellite) is due off from Vandenberg (ULA) on Wednesday evening.


----------



## T & P (Jan 25, 2018)

Static test successful, launch 'within a a week or so' 

SpaceX Falcon Heavy Will Launch 'In A Week Or So' After Successful Static-Fire Test


----------



## 2hats (Feb 1, 2018)

T & P said:


> Musk being Musk, he's sending a Tesla Roadster into space for the test flight, rather than using concrete blocks


Tesla ready for launch (due next Tuesday, 6 Feb, window runs from 1830-2130 GMT with relatively few constraints - range availability, ‘TMI’ burn timing, as this is to a heliocentric orbit without a precise target) …









Rumours abound that a low light level 4K camera has been custom built for this flight - perhaps to film the Tesla/from the Tesla after ‘payload’ separation.


----------



## T & P (Feb 1, 2018)

Wow, that's a really spacious (if you'll forget the pun) payload bay.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2018)

T & P said:


> Wow, that's a really spacious (if you'll forget the pun) payload bay.


Pretty standard, although still not as big as the Shuttle's (and I believe Atlas 5 can match that)


----------



## 2hats (Feb 1, 2018)

T & P said:


> Wow, that's a really spacious (if you'll forget the pun) payload bay.


Fairly standard base payload fairing shroud. Satellites tend to be quite large compared to cars - varying but up to the size of a large minibus (when packed for flight) and often stacked in pairs (or more) for launch.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 1, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Pretty standard, although still not as big as the Shuttle's (and I believe Atlas 5 can match that)


Yes, Atlas V and Ariane 5 are the current largest (5.4m), if I recall correctly. New Glenn is aiming for 7m, SLS up to 10m diameter. Skylab may have been the largest flown to date (6.7m). To some extent it depends on what the customer wants and is willing to pay for (obviously a purpose built fairing has to be modelled, tested and flight qualified first, and the intended launch vehicle has to be capable of driving it plus payload up through the lower atmosphere to the target parking orbit - so there is an incentive to conform to the vendor’s off the shelf options).


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2018)

Iirc, SpaceX are limited by the size of their autoclave, otherwise they'd offer a larger one.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 5, 2018)

Everything is still go for tomorrow's launch attempt. Window opens at 13:30 local time (18:30 in UK)

The roadster has a "pilot"


----------



## 2hats (Feb 5, 2018)

Crispy said:


> The roadster has a “pilot"


So much for them being driverless cars eh?


----------



## a_chap (Feb 5, 2018)

It's the Stig!


----------



## T & P (Feb 6, 2018)

a_chap said:


> It's the Stig!


Shame it's not Jeremy Clarkson.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 6, 2018)

Live coverage will be here:



Expect them to launch either on the dot of 18:30 or a 24h scrub.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 6, 2018)

Reading about this luanch led me to read on the Deep Space Gateway - Wikipedia 

thats pretty cool.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 6, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Expect them to launch either on the dot of 18:30 or a 24h scrub.



Pushed back to 19:20 UTC due to upper atmosphere winds


----------



## Mumbles274 (Feb 6, 2018)

Is there a live video feed?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 6, 2018)

Mumbles274 said:


> Is there a live video feed?



It's not live yet, but it's here Falcon Heavy Test Flight | SpaceX


----------



## Mumbles274 (Feb 6, 2018)

Cheers TheHoodedClaw


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Pushed back to 19:20 UTC due to upper atmosphere winds


No earlier than 1950GMT - high level wind shear is under evaluation.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2018)

Now no earlier than 2005GMT.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 6, 2018)

I've read a long arse technica thing on it but it hasn't answered my question. Does the car separate from the rocket to orbit the sun forever or is it the car and the rocket orbiting forever. I mean is the payload going to remain firmly attached to the rocket forever, because I'd rather it was on its own, or possibly stacked into mars at some point.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 6, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I've read a long arse technica thing on it but it hasn't answered my question. Does the car separate from the rocket to orbit the sun forever or is it the car and the rocket orbiting forever. I mean is the payload going to remain firmly attached to the rocket forever, because I'd rather it was on its own, or possibly stacked into mars at some point.



The animation that Space X did shows the car orbiting on it's own.


----------



## teqniq (Feb 6, 2018)

So they are going to leave the car up there somewhere. Gives a whole new definition to the concept of parking orbit.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2018)

The car alone (with the adapter ring and upper stage *) will end up in heliocentric orbit with aphelion roughly at the distance of Mars and perihelion roughly at the distance of Earth (from the Sun). It will be inclined to the ecliptic too so the car will never encounter Mars (planetary protection). The orbit will be similar to an Apollo asteroid - roughly the outer rim of the green disc indicated below between [E]arth's and [M]ars’ orbits:






edit: * looks like the car will stay mated to the adapter and upper stage contrary to pre-launch publicity graphics.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 6, 2018)

teqniq said:


> So they are going to leave the car up there somewhere. Gives a whole new definition to the concept of parking orbit.



I was more on the side of space junk myself!


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2018)

New revised launch time 2015GMT. Slipping towards the end of the window now (2100GMT).


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2018)

Now aiming for 2045GMT. The key issue now is - what is the trend in the upper level winds? Worth gambling and loading the fuel, which would make a 24 hour turnaround very difficult? We will find out in about 14 minutes when tanking should commence...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 6, 2018)

Looks like they're having a go...


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 6, 2018)

There's a youtube live stream too,if that's more convenient



(currently there's nearly 400,000 people watching a static image)


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2018)

Window closes at 2056GMT (collision avoidance). Possibly they have computed the break point in tanking, at which they will need to terminate in order to be able to condition sufficient LOX for a 24hr turnaround, and will run the count until at least there to see if the winds improve.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2018)




----------



## 2hats (Feb 6, 2018)

Tanking decision now due in 10 minutes.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 6, 2018)

.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 6, 2018)

Tanking has begun!


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> There's a youtube live stream too,if that's more convenient
> 
> 
> 
> (currently there's nearly 400,000 people watching a static image)



541,993 waiting now!


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 6, 2018)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> There's a youtube live stream too,if that's more convenient
> 
> 
> 
> (currently there's nearly 400,000 people watching a static image)



This is probably worth giving a thread of it's own. There'll be loads of folk who aren't on this thread who'd be interested but don't know about it.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Feb 6, 2018)

The live feed now has a moving image. Ok, it's a random starfield and some space techno, but still.

Edit: And you can switch cameras between the PR-focussed hosted feed and the Countdown Net audio feed


----------



## Crispy (Feb 6, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> This is probably worth giving a thread of it's own. There'll be loads of folk who aren't on this thread who'd be interested but don't know about it.


Done
https://www.urban75.net/forums/thre...ds-most-powerful-rocket-maiden-flight.357030/


----------



## MikeMcc (Feb 6, 2018)

That was an awesome launch, the dual booster landing was incredible.  Looks like they may have lost the center core though.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 6, 2018)

Fair enough. It did come in very hot.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 21, 2018)

Falcon 9 Internet Satellite Payload tomorrow 14:17 (PAZ)


----------



## 2hats (Feb 22, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Falcon 9 Internet Satellite Payload tomorrow 14:17 (PAZ)


Underway right now. Currently powering to a sun synchronous orbit. This time they are experimenting and going to have a go at recovering one half of the payload fairing with a giant net mounted on a boat.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 22, 2018)

2hats said:


> Underway right now. Currently powering to a sun synchronous orbit. This time they are experimenting and going to have a go at recovering one half of the payload fairing with a giant net mounted on a boat.


Can we watch it anywhere?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 22, 2018)

Spymaster said:


> Can we watch it anywhere?


Nah, no coverage of the fairing capture. The launch was boring too. Dark and foggy, and no booster landing.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 22, 2018)

Crispy said:


> Nah, no coverage of the fairing capture. The launch was boring too. Dark and foggy, and no booster landing.


Yes, I just caught the separation on the SpaceX feed. A bit dull.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 23, 2018)

Missed the net…


----------



## 2hats (Feb 23, 2018)

The F9 upper stage was spotted early yesterday evening, venting or executing (just having executed) a disposal burn over Scandinavia about two orbits after the launch:


Orbital data suggests this was part of a two stage burn to dump the upper stage in the northern Pacific between the Aleutians and Midway.


----------



## a_chap (Feb 26, 2018)

This is worth watching, if only for the booster landing footage.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 26, 2018)

Skip to 8:50 if the DUUUUUUUDE NO WAY is too much


----------



## MikeMcc (Feb 27, 2018)

Two launches on Thursday, Hispasat 30W on an F9 from SLC-40, and GOES-S on an Atlas 5 from SLC-41.  First time that they have had launches on the same day since the Gemini - Agena missions back in the mid 60s!


----------



## weltweit (Feb 27, 2018)

Yall and No Way dude were too much for me but I soldiered on because the two boosters coming home and landing seconds apart from one another was worth watching.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 11, 2018)

Spacex's own supercut of the FH launch. Includes core stage "landing"


----------



## sky_blue (Mar 12, 2018)

Do you guys know when is the Falcon 9 is expected to land in water?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 12, 2018)

sky_blue said:


> Do you guys know when is the Falcon 9 is expected to land in water?


*in* the water?
Only by accident or when deliberately expending the stage
*on* the water?
Only back when they were testing the landing procedure
*on a boat* on the water?
Multiple times already


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2018)

This Is SpaceX's 1st Crewed Dragon Spaceship Destined for Space


----------



## 2hats (Oct 3, 2018)

Launch due this Sunday at 0321BST from Vandenberg (radar imaging satellite to sun synchronous polar orbit) which will see the first attempt to return the first stage to land from the west coast launch site.


----------



## 2hats (Oct 4, 2018)

Launch now delayed 24 hours to allow time to complete pre-flight vehicle checks.


----------



## 2hats (Oct 7, 2018)

Launch still on target for 0321BST tonight. Should be quite a good display for people within 300km of VAFB. Launched at night, shortly after MECO it will be back in sunlight where the booster fly back burn should be lit and visible, then it will return to the Earth’s shadow where the re-entry and landing burns should at least be visible. Typical view from the coast just north of LA, south of VAFB (times PDT):


----------



## 2hats (Oct 8, 2018)

Successful launch. As expected, some pretty exhaust plume (and RCS jet) patterns caught by sunlight during the ascent and boost back phases…








(e2a: somewhat reminiscent of various structures seen in the sky in the arctic regions in recent years, which are just RCS targetting adjustments for the MIRV platform in the latter stages of ICBM tests, and in at least one case a missile failure.)


----------



## a_chap (Oct 8, 2018)




----------



## 2hats (Oct 9, 2018)

Re-entry burn of the F9 second stage seen over Europe Monday morning (0440BST) setting it up for disposal in the Pacific south of Hawaii.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 10, 2018)

Spectacular timelapse


----------



## MikeMcc (Dec 3, 2018)

I'm amazed that the launches have become so routine that this thread hasn't been updated for a while.

Today has marked a major milestone.  The first time that a booster has been used for the third time!  It also launched the highest number of satellites that SpaceX has been asked to do.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 3, 2018)

Not only has it launched 3 times, but it's also launched from all 3 spacex launch sites. It was their 64th launch and 32nd landing, so from now on they will have landed more than half the rockets they've launched.

They didn't catch the fairing halves, but came very close and fished them out of the sea. Apparently they'll just hose them down and they'll fly again. Another $6m off the cost of flight.


----------



## MikeMcc (Dec 3, 2018)

I'm assuming that they have improved the enclosures and connectors for the electronics and the RCS gas lines to protect them from water ingress.


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2018)

Vids: Watch This SpaceX Rocket Splash Down During Failed Landing Attempt (Videos)


----------



## a_chap (Dec 6, 2018)

Scott Manley's take on this:


----------



## Crispy (Dec 6, 2018)

Crispy said:


> from now on they will have landed more than half the rockets they've launched.


shoulda shut my mouth


----------



## MikeMcc (Dec 6, 2018)

That was a superb demonstration of the power of their control software.  To make such a massive failure into a survivable landing was spectacular.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 7, 2018)

SpaceX VP of mission assurance comments on the anomaly…


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 7, 2018)

That looks like a good display of fail-safe planning.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 7, 2018)

It really is incredible control system engineering. Very robust. I bet if the grid fins had auto-centering in case of pressure loss, it could have landed on engine alone.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 30, 2018)

Some photo footage and information on a subscale flight article of the former BFR now Starship & Super Heavy stages. 



Crew Dragon is currently undergoing final checks with NASA and may have an uncrewed flight by as early as 19 January.

A geostationary launch in February is slotted to have an Israeli built passenger vehicle that will continue on and land on the Moon. 

March is the pencilled in date for the subscale flight article of the Starship stage. But I would not be holding my breath.


----------



## urbanspaceman (Dec 30, 2018)

ferrelhadley said:


> Some photo footage and information on a subscale flight article of the former BFR now Starship & Super Heavy stages.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## urbanspaceman (Dec 30, 2018)

sorry about that. I meant to say that I,don’t think that it’s a crewed vehicle


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 31, 2018)

She is quite the inspiration.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 4, 2019)

Crew Dragon is on the pad (39A) on a Falcon 9 for dry dress rehearsals.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 5, 2019)

Official photos. Launch is targeted for 17th January but will likely slip at least a day for every additional day of US government shutdown.


 

 

 


e2a: Musk reckons “about a month away”, so looking at early February, perhaps.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 5, 2019)

This is the dry fit, empty Falcon  9 and Dragon 2 to make sure all the parts fit. This one appears to be a specific "first flight" test. They have two other tests that are the usual ones for any SpaceX flight the prelaunch static fire test and perhaps a "wet" dress rehersel countdown where the fully fueled rocket is taken to near launch. There is going to be a lot of media buzz for this flight. After this one they will have an abort test in a couple of months then it will be the Spx DM2, a crewed flight to the ISS and probably the US's return to crewed flight mission.
This is going to something like the first flight of Columbia, Sally Ride, STS 114 (return to flight after the Columbia loss) level of hype. 

Of those pictures this one looks like its from a Kubrick film or a 70s book on the future of space travel.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 5, 2019)

An artists rendering of the BFR test article they are building. Seems to be similar to their "Grasshopper" that they tested before returning Falcon 9s (early pages of this thread). Musk claimed possibly 4 weeks to first flight on twitter. So before 2020 then


----------



## Crispy (Jan 8, 2019)

It loks like a ropey theme park attraction, but nope; this thing is going to actually fly


----------



## NoXion (Jan 9, 2019)

Crispy said:


> It loks like a ropey theme park attraction, but nope; this thing is going to actually fly



I'm pretty sure that with the design of this thing, the SpaceX engineers are cribbing some of their notes from Bob Truax. A fascinating character, he was playing around with rockets before Elon Musk was even born. In 1962 Truax designed a two-stage sea-launched super-heavy lift launch vehicle called Sea Dragon. It was to be a Big Dumb Booster constructed of relatively cheap materials, such as 8mm stainless steel, and constructed by shipbuilders, who have a lot of experience putting together large vehicles made of steel.

One of SpaceX's overriding goals is to reduce launch costs. In light of this, switching to cheaper materials such as stainless steel makes sense. It doesn't matter so much if a stainless steel component is ruined at the end of one trip, if it can be cheaply replaced. Steel is significantly heavier than carbon composites, but as designs like the Sea Dragon illustrate, this can be compensated for by enlarging the overall design.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2019)

It's lkely TPS (thermal protection system) concerns pushing them to stainless. They're going for a "hot frame" design, where you permit re-entry heat to enter the superstructure. The Shuttle (and all capsules) have a "cold frame" that is protected by a heat shield. The Shuttle airframe was lightweight aluminium that could not withstand the heat of re-entry, so the whole craft was insulated by tiles and blankets. The X-15, by comparison, had a titanium skin and airframe. The heat of hypersonic flight was absorbed into it, while just the pilot's cabin was insulated.

Starship will do the same, and will also have elements of active cooling, whereby the cryogenic fuel needed for landing is pumped through the windward skin during peak re-entry, in much the same way that the engines are cooled during a burn. In addition, the shiny steel will reflect much of the radiated heat from the bow shock plasma. The crew/cargo compartment at the top will be insulated against the hot spacecraft.

This is a "heavy" solution when considering TPS on its own, but it looks like (carbon fiber + TPS attachment + TPS + metal parts required for strength in the fins/airbrakes) was going to weigh the same as a stainless steel frame that did everything.

This hopper though, is just being made shiny to look cool.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 10, 2019)

Shutdown bites first test launch of the crew capable version of Dragon.
SpaceX Demo-1 Launch Update – Commercial Crew Program
This is pretty much expected. But SpaceX have a launch from Vandenberg tomorrow that is still slotted to go ahead, the airforce is not on shutdown and they had already gotten FAA paperwork for this one.


----------



## 2hats (Jan 17, 2019)

A 747 cargo flight is en route to KSC right now delivering the (200kg) Israeli SpaceIL lunar lander for a piggyback ride on a Falcon 9 launch in February.
 
The mission calls for it to land in Mare Serenitatis two months after launch (the piggyback launch is to geostationary orbit and it will gradually orbit raise from there until it is captured by the Moon’s gravity). After taking measurements and images it will hop to a new location a few km away.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 7, 2019)

SpaceX Demonstration Mission 1, the first orbital test of Dragon 2, flying uncrewed to the ISS is now targeted for 2 March (flight readiness review due 22 Feb). A SpaceX in flight abort test is scheduled for June, then SpaceX Demonstration Mission 2, the first crewed flight to the ISS, would follow, it currently being targeted for July 2019.

Just to note - Boeing is targeting April for the first uncrewed flight of the CST-100 Starliner to the ISS and August for a crewed launch.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Feb 8, 2019)

The excellent Real Engineering channel explains the shift to stainless steel.


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 8, 2019)

ferrelhadley said:


> The excellent Real Engineering channel explains the shift to stainless steel.



"The whole operation looks like a bit of a shit-show..."

We need more plain-spoken science.


----------



## 2hats (Feb 23, 2019)

Uncrewed Dragon test flight now targeted for 0748UTC on 2 March.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 2, 2019)

SpaceX


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 2, 2019)

Well, that seems to have gone as well as it could...

Although the super-critic in me says the Stage-1 landing was a few feet off-centre on the drone ship.



But the video held up, so we could see it land.

So docking at about 11 am tomorrow?


----------



## 2hats (Mar 2, 2019)

Limejuice said:


> So docking at about 11 am tomorrow?


Roughly. Approach along the R-bar then translate to the V-bar for the final approach to the docking adaptor. Coverage starts 0830UT, hatch opening 1345UT.

Undocking due Friday 8 March at 0730UT, de-orbit 1230UT with splashdown off the coast of Florida at 1345UT.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 2, 2019)

I assume the dummy being named ripley was in homage to alien’s 40th anniversary this weekend.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 2, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I assume the dummy being named ripley was in homage to alien’s 40th anniversary this weekend.


I think so.

And I hope it was a crash-test figure, and not something inflatable... The Tesla in space playing Bowie tells me the new generation of rocketeers has a playful side.

#loweringthetoneofaproperthread


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2019)

Dragon entering the "Keep-out" sphere.

400m beneath the ISS.

| NASA

ETA: Apparently things are 15 minutes ahead of schedule.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2019)

"Twenty metre hold."

Getting close.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2019)

Waiting for sunset. Literally.

* NASA music plays *


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2019)

The view of the docking point from the Dragon camera is stunning.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2019)

Go for approach.

*NASA music stops *


----------



## a_chap (Mar 3, 2019)

Phone rang. Missed it.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2019)

Hard capture complete.

Ripley's going nowhere.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 3, 2019)

Hatch opening due around 1330UT or shortly thereafter. They are busy having lunch right now.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2019)

Hatch is open!


----------



## HAL9000 (Mar 3, 2019)




----------



## 2hats (Mar 3, 2019)




----------



## HAL9000 (Mar 3, 2019)

...


----------



## HAL9000 (Mar 3, 2019)




----------



## 2hats (Mar 6, 2019)

People in the corridor running SE from southern British Colombia & Alberta, Montana, through the Dakotas, Iowa, Illinois and adjacent states might be able to see the plasma wake of the Crew Dragon during re-entry just before sunrise on Friday.

e2a: Best locations would probably be either side of and along the western-most Canada/US border - BC, AB, SK and WA, ID, MT, between about 1315 and 1330 UT.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 7, 2019)

Have got hold of some better descent information. Eastern Montana up against the Dakotas looking like the best bet for viewing. Any further west and you would struggle to see entry phenomena. Any further east and the sun will have risen. Undocking now due 0727UT Friday, de-orbit burn 1253UT, entry 1334UT (lasting only just over 6 minutes) leading to splashdown at 1345UT.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 8, 2019)

Coverage here:


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 8, 2019)

Actually, this is better:

CREW DEMO-1 MISSION | SpaceX


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 8, 2019)

Bring Ripley home!


----------



## 2hats (Mar 8, 2019)

Undocking sequence:


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 8, 2019)

Coverage here:


----------



## Crispy (Mar 8, 2019)

Live re-entry footage from an airborne tracking camera! Very cool


----------



## a_chap (Mar 8, 2019)

Even though the commentary grated the video footage was incredible!

View attachment 163874


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 8, 2019)

I hope they check Ripley for alien infestation...


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Mar 8, 2019)

Managed to watch this at work, brilliant stuff - landed the exact minute they predicted.


----------



## a_chap (Mar 8, 2019)

Not sure why this screen-grab wouldn't upload in my previous post. But I think it's worth posting!
View attachment 163874

ETA: bugger


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 8, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Live re-entry footage from an airborne tracking camera! Very cool
> 
> View attachment 163873


I liked the moment when you saw the drogue chutes deploy on the airborne shots.

Coolissimo.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 8, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Live re-entry footage from an airborne tracking camera! Very cool


Yes, WB-57 FLIR shots were nice. Handy for characterising the re-entry too.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 8, 2019)

*googles wb-57*

Now that's what I call a vintage jet!


----------



## 2hats (Mar 8, 2019)

Crispy said:


> *googles wb-57*
> 
> Now that's what I call a vintage jet!


Originally the English Electric Canberra (licensed to build in the US).


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 8, 2019)

You can tell it got a bit warm during re-entry.

Will the scorch marks buff out, or will it need re-painting?


----------



## 2hats (Mar 20, 2019)

Starhopper static test fire coming up tomorrow (postponed due to weather from today) - window 1500-2100GMT.



Limejuice said:


> Will the scorch marks buff out, or will it need re-painting?


Lick of paint. It will only be re-used as a cargo vehicle - SpaceX have no plans to re-use crew capsules for lofting people a second time (or at least that was their intention last time I looked).


----------



## Crispy (Apr 6, 2019)

starship prototype pulls on its restraints:



Meanwhile, Falcon Heavy will fly again Tuesday night.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Apr 7, 2019)




----------



## Limejuice (Apr 9, 2019)

The launch is due around 23.36 tonight (Tues 9th April), and with any luck we'll see some pyro-choreography.



"Falcon Heavy is expected to launch at 6:36 p.m. EDT (2236 GMT) on Tuesday. If all goes according to plan, the two side boosters will touch down in unison on their designated landing pad at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, while the central booster will land at sea, on one of the company’s two drone ships."

SpaceX Fires Up Falcon Heavy Ahead of Rocket's 2nd-Ever Launch Next Week


----------



## Limejuice (Apr 9, 2019)

My bad: delayed until tomorrow.

SpaceX Falcon Heavy launch delayed again to Wednesday

Arse.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Apr 21, 2019)

Ground testing of the launch abort system suffers a catastrophic failure. Its on a already used unit and no details of the nature of the failure available though this is more likely than not to push their launch schedule back by many months to a year. 

Yahoo is now part of Oath


----------



## Crispy (Apr 21, 2019)

Yikes


----------



## Limejuice (Apr 21, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Yikes



That should buff out, right?


----------



## StoneRoad (Apr 21, 2019)

ouch !


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 21, 2019)

Blast off in just over 10 minutes.


----------



## Limejuice (Apr 21, 2019)

A bit more detail about the mishap. Perhaps they should have used a new capsule. The re-used one looked like it'd been well pounded.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 21, 2019)

DexterTCN said:


> Blast off in just over 10 minutes.



That's an old broadcast, not live


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 21, 2019)

Crispy said:


> That's an old broadcast, not live


oh...I thought 5pm was weird.


----------



## HAL9000 (Apr 23, 2019)

This video is floating around on the intenet

http://digg.com/2019/spacex-capsule-failure-video

it looks suspicious, low quality vid and the capscule is not on the rocket.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Apr 28, 2019)

> The Federal Communications Commission has approved SpaceX’s request to fly a large swath of its future internet-beaming satellites at a lower orbit than originally planned. The approval was a major regulatory hurdle the company needed to clear in order to start launching its first operational satellites from Florida next month.
> 
> In November, SpaceX sent a request to the FCC to partially revise plans for the company’s satellite internet constellation, known as Starlink. Under SpaceX’s original agreement with the commission, the company had permission to launch 4,425 Starlink satellites into orbits that ranged between 1,110 to 1,325 kilometers up. But then SpaceX decided it wanted to fly 1,584 of those satellites in different orbits, thanks to what it had learned from its first two test satellites, TinTin A and B. Instead of flying them at 1,150 kilometers, the company now wants to fly them much lower at 550 kilometers.
> 
> And now the FCC is on board. “This approval underscores the FCC’s confidence in SpaceX’s plans to deploy its next-generation satellite constellation and connect people around the world with reliable and affordable broadband service,” SpaceX president Gwynne Shotwell said in a statement.


FCC approves SpaceX’s plans to fly internet-beaming satellites in a lower orbit

Couple of points here, this will be a manifest that will likely give them the kind of launch cadence they have sought to justify the refurbishment (and hopes to move to reusable) launch vehicles. 
This could be a major threat to the likes of Intelsat, Inmarsat etc. 
Is there a big enough market for this service though?
And this could be politically explosive if a covert dish is all you need to get through great firewalls and so on.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 28, 2019)

ferrelhadley said:


> Is there a big enough market for this service though?


It will have a lower latency between NYC and LDN than an undersea cable (light moves faster in vacuum than it does in glass). The high speed trading market alone is huge $$$. The general market for internet backhaul is gigantic; if Starlink is competitively priced, it should pick up a big slice of that market too. And then there's all the places in the world with a thirst for data but no cables. A village in the middle of nowhere can now be just as connected as a major city. I suspect the cost of a terminal will be too high for direct-to-consumer services for quite a while.

I also suspect the cost of doing business in China, say, is that all Starlink terminals sold in that market have a backdoor that reports back to the government. The potential profits of serving that market will be far more persuasive than any noble efforts to bring free media to the masses.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2019)

Another success: Used SpaceX Rocket Launches 3 Radarsat Satellites, Aces Foggy Landing



> Following a rocket launch, SpaceX has two possible options for recovering boosters: returning to land, using a specially constructed landing pad, or touching down at sea, on the deck of one of the company’s two drone ships. The option the company picks varies between launches, predominantly determined by the rocket's payload.
> 
> Coming all the way back to land requires more fuel than landing on a ship at sea, so launches that use lots of propellant during ascent (typically toting very large, very heavy payloads) usually have to land in the ocean. But rockets carrying lighter loads, in particular ones bound for low-Earth orbit, have plenty of fuel left to head back to land.





> Today's flight marked the 41st landing for SpaceX out of 72 total launches for the company; only 15 of these touchdowns have been on land. And this is only the second time a rocket has landed on solid ground in California; SpaceX's other ground landings have occurred on Florida's Space Coast, where the company has a pair of launch and landing pads.
> 
> But SpaceX has always intended to land rockets back at its Vandenberg facilities, Space Launch Complex 4 (SLC-4 for short). Originally home to Titan missiles, SLC-4 is actually two launch sites in one. Split up into two parts — east and west — SpaceX leases both and uses one for launching and one for landing.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 20, 2019)

This photo tickled me  Stainless steel Starship prototype being polished.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 20, 2019)

Crispy said:


> This photo tickled me  Stainless steel Starship prototype being polished.
> View attachment 174739


I bet that Pride umbrella's pissing off a few politicians 

"Eurgh, there's gay all over our spaceship"


----------



## Crispy (Jun 25, 2019)

Falcon heavy night launch in 25m


----------



## a_chap (Jun 25, 2019)

Nauseating USAF / DoD advert playing at the mo'


----------



## Limejuice (Jun 25, 2019)

a_chap said:


> Nauseating USAF / DoD advert playing at the mo'


Pure hornswoggle, wasn't it?


----------



## a_chap (Jun 25, 2019)

Damn, the centre core failed to land. Damn close though.


----------



## Limejuice (Jun 25, 2019)

a_chap said:


> Damn, the centre core failed to land. Damn close though.


It makes me wonder what that drone ship is made of. They keep dropping (in effect) missiles onto the deck, and the damn thing keeps floating. Perhaps that's what the USAF is testing...


----------



## a_chap (Jun 25, 2019)

Good grief!


----------



## Crispy (Jun 25, 2019)

a_chap said:


> Damn, the centre core failed to land. Damn close though.


Looked to me like they braked _too hard. _The plume was dead centre on the deck, and then it skewed hard over and the rocket flew away to crash. It's supposed to carefully time the burn such that zero velocity and zero altitude line up. Here's me from 5 years ago so I don't have to type it twice:



Crispy said:


> That's right. The "easy" way to land a VTVL rocket is to approach zero altitude asymptotically. You slow down gradually until you're "hovering" at zero altitude, with thrust exactly matching the mass of the vehicle. Then you turn the engine off and fall the last few centimeters onto your landing legs.
> 
> View attachment 31791
> 
> ...



That last graph shows what I think happened. This was such a high-velocity landing that the margin for error was very very small.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 25, 2019)

All 42 (I think? A shit load, anyway) payloads succesfully deployed, in 4 different orbits. By far the most complex mission they've ever done. Oh, and they caught a fairing half in the net! (on the left)


----------



## HAL9000 (Jul 16, 2019)

> A small amount of NTO was driven at high speed through a helium check valve (one that allows gas to flow in just one direction) made from titanium during initialisation of the launch escape system - which is designed to blast the crew free in the event of a rocket failure. This led to structural failure within the valve.
> 
> It added: "The reaction between titanium and NTO at high pressure was not expected."
> 
> As a result of the explosion, SpaceX has already taken several actions, including the use of components called burst disks instead of check valves. The burst disks seal completely until opened by high pressure. The company believes this will prevent any liquid propellant entering the gaseous pressurisation system.



Where I thought spaceX was particularly bad, was the amount of secrecy.   Especially since this was a safety system for human crew.



> SpaceX has been criticised for a perceived lack of openness in the wake of the explosion. Jim Bridenstine said there was now a new procedure in place in the event that something similar happens again.
> 
> "Within a couple of hours, we're going to do a press conference and get as much information out to the public as soon as possible," he explained.



Have to see if they stick to this policy.

Leaky component led to SpaceX explosion


----------



## Crispy (Jul 16, 2019)

The criticism was not of secrecy with regards to NASA, but with regards to the public. There were NASA officials in the control room when the explosion happened, and the investigation was a joint endeavour from the start. Note that Boeing also had an "anomoly" with their Starliner  capsule recently but we didn't hear anything about that in a press conference.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jul 24, 2019)

A dragon capsule to be launched for the third time to the ISS, one of the experiments it carries is to try to grow organs in microgravity. 

Experiment Details

It is very early stages but it is pretty interesting research.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 24, 2019)

Also, fingers crossed, the Starhopper will fly shortly after


----------



## Crispy (Jul 24, 2019)

If the launch goes off well tonight, there's a very good chance to see Dragon fly over in the UK, seeing as there's not a cloud in the sky. The ISS will go almost directly overhead from West to East at about 23:32 , followed by Dragon about 10 minutes later.

EDIT: The 21:58 pass of ISS was very clear. Should be able to see Dragon with no problem


----------



## a_chap (Jul 24, 2019)

Dragon launch scrubbed 

Next launch window is tomorrow 10:01pm UTC


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2019)

SpaceX Starship Prototype Takes 1st Free-Flying Test Hop


----------



## MikeMcc (Jul 26, 2019)

It's also the first vehicle to fly with a Full-Flow Staged Comustion Cycle engine.  The US and Russia developed and ran prototypes but never flew with them.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 27, 2019)

MikeMcc said:


> It's also the first vehicle to fly with a Full-Flow Staged Comustion Cycle engine.  The US and Russia developed and ran prototypes but never flew with them.


What is that and how does it work?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 27, 2019)

weltweit said:


> What is that and how does it work?


If only there was some way of interconnecting a global network of information stores, and - oh, I don't know - in some way indexing them, so that it was possible to type, say, "Staged combustion cycle engine" into a web page, and find some answers...LMGTFY


----------



## weltweit (Jul 27, 2019)

existentialist said:


> If only there was some way of interconnecting a global network of information stores, and - oh, I don't know - in some way indexing them, so that it was possible to type, say, "Staged combustion cycle engine" into a web page, and find some answers...LMGTFY


People like to explain things that they know about, and it is a compliment that I am asking them about something they obviously know about. 

If every post that could be discovered on duck duck go was not made, there would be far fewer discussions on urban.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 27, 2019)

weltweit said:


> People like to explain things that they know about, and it is a compliment that I am asking them about something they obviously know about.
> 
> If every post that could be discovered on duck duck go was not made, there would be far fewer discussions on urban.


Public service, innit?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 27, 2019)

FFSC:

Rocket engines need pumps to push all the propellant/oxidiser into the combustion chamber. Very powerful, very high flow rate pumps. They burn a bit of the prop/oxy in turbines to power these pumps. There are various strategies for these. Do they run fuel rich or oxidiser rich? What do you do with the exhaust?

The Merlin engine on the falcon 9, for example, is a simple gas generator. There's one turbine, running on small tap-off lines from the main prop/oxy feedlines, driving both pumps. The exhaust is dumped into the nozzle, downstream of the combustion chamber.

Raptor has two turbines, one oxy rich, one fuel rich, through which the entirity of the fluids pass. High volumes through the turbines means lower speeds, and thus less wear and rear. Then the hot exhaust gases are combined in the combustion chamber.

It's very efficient and very amenable to reusability. Very hard to do though. Lots of variables to balance, very tricky metallurgy for the oxy-rich turbine (superhot oxygen will burn almost anything) and you can't test parts of it independently. You can run the power pack of a  gas generator engine on its own. A full flow staged combustion engine is all or nothing.

This is a great video on why Raptor is so important:


----------



## a_chap (Jul 27, 2019)

If you want to get a better idea of what a gas generator does, try these NASA videos:

A bit of info about the gas generator they're testing:



Two views of the test:





Now imagine all that energy being used purely to drive a turbine to pump propellants into one F-1 engine... 

*Note:* the gas generator runs very fuel-rich, hence all the thick black smoke. This "cooler" exhaust gas was then fed into the nozzle extension to create a protective layer from the hotter rocket exhaust. And this is why there's a darker area immediately below the F-1 engine when the Saturn V takes off.


----------



## a_chap (Jul 27, 2019)

Oh, a statistic popped into my head.

The Bloodhound SSC was going to use a Jaguar V8 just to power the oxidiser pump...

The 1000mph Bloodhound SSC Will Use A 542bhp Jaguar V8 Just To Power A Fuel Pump

As a comparison the gas generator/turbine powering the propellant pump for a single F-1 engine was 50,000 horsepower


----------



## a_chap (Jul 28, 2019)

Here's a rather special video: First stage launch to landing.


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2019)

Love the tech


----------



## MikeMcc (Jul 31, 2019)

weltweit said:


> What is that and how does it work?


Scott Manley does a very good (and short) presentation on the different engine cycles with the pros and cons for each:


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2019)

Starship Mk1 taking shape in Texas. This is just the bottom half; there's a top part, with fins of its own near the nosecone. That should get stacked later this week before a big presentation from Musk on Saturday. It's hard to believe, but they say this thing will be making flights into space this year.

And then there's the Super Heavy first stage booster which is just as big, so the whole rocket is 4 times as tall. Red rectangle is the part in the photo above:


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Starship Mk1 taking shape in Texas. This is just the bottom half; there's a top part, with fins of its own near the nosecone. That should get stacked later this week before a big presentation from Musk on Saturday. It's hard to believe, but they say this thing will be making flights into space this year.
> 
> And then there's the Super Heavy first stage booster which is just as big, so the whole rocket is 4 times as tall. Red rectangle is the part in the photo above:
> 
> View attachment 184866


Loving the sci-fi comic book look!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2019)

To give an idea of scale, the comnplete stack at 118m is about as high as Millbank Tower or Centrepoint.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 27, 2019)

If you're feeling particularly spoddy, you can watch them stack the complete Starship prototype live:


----------



## Crispy (Sep 27, 2019)

Like, right now


----------



## Crispy (Sep 27, 2019)




----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2019)

Crispy said:


>



It still doesn't look quite real to me. It looks like some kid has made an oversized Dan Dare spaceship in their garden!


----------



## a_chap (Sep 27, 2019)

I know everyone's supposed to think it looks amazing but I think it's hideous.

It reminds me too much of the Atlas rocket which, although it was used to launch Mercury capsules, was primarily intended to deliver hydrogen bombs.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 28, 2019)

editor said:


> It still doesn't look quite real to me. It looks like some kid has made an oversized Dan Dare spaceship in their garden!


Exactly what I was going to say. 
To me it looks like a full scale model, surely it can't be real with all those joints and patches of metal in the body. I don't think it is a real rocket at all.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 28, 2019)

Yearly Starship update from Musk tonight, going into all the detail of the new Starship design, Raptor engine, Super Heavy booster, Mars plans etc. If you can stand to hear him talk (he's a terrible speaker, also he's Elon Musk) you can watch live here, at 1am UK time.



Q&A should be worth hanging around for as this is pretty much a spaceflight-reporters-only media event.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 5, 2019)

Anyone with a clear sky in the southern UK in about 9 minutes might be treated to the Dragon and upper stage passing high in the SW from W to SE at around 1750UT (will enter eclipse about half way through the pass). Look out for interesting venting events.

PS good ISS passes too at the moment as a consequence (check eg heavens above).


----------



## a_chap (Dec 5, 2019)

Crispy said:


> If you can stand to hear him talk (he's a terrible speaker... ) [/MEDIA]



I cannot. Everything about listening to him grates with me.





2hats said:


> Anyone with a clear sky in the southern UK ... might be treated to the Dragon and upper stage passing high in the SW from W to SE ... Look out for interesting venting events.







2hats said:


> Anyone with a clear sky in the southern UK* in about 9 minutes* might be treated to...


----------



## 2hats (Dec 5, 2019)

a_chap said:


>


Sorry. I'll try to give more warning next time. Only just occurred to me. Lot of cloud around anyway it seems.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2019)

Whoosh!


----------



## a_chap (Jan 19, 2020)

A successful launch abort test!


----------



## Detroit City (Jan 19, 2020)

a_chap said:


> View attachment 196124
> 
> A successful launch abort test!


WTF?


----------



## a_chap (Jan 19, 2020)

Detroit City said:


> WTF?



Is that a serious question?


----------



## Detroit City (Jan 19, 2020)

a_chap said:


> Is that a serious question?



No I was just surprised that they would waste an entire vehicle


----------



## HAL9000 (Jan 19, 2020)




----------



## 2hats (Jan 19, 2020)

Detroit City said:


> No I was just surprised that they would waste an entire vehicle


Not much choice if you want to convincingly demonstrate emergency escape during the most critical ascent phase through the upper troposphere. The F9 first and second stages were fully fuelled and the first stage wasn't going to survive re-orientation/have sufficient altitude/speed/time to fly back. The second stage fell intact to the ocean surface where it exploded on impact (it didn't have a motor, was just fitted up with an appropriate ballast weight).


----------



## a_chap (Jan 19, 2020)

Detroit City said:


> No I was just surprised that they would waste an entire vehicle



Wasted? It wasn't wasted!

Good grief.


----------



## StoneRoad (Jan 19, 2020)

Watched the live feed for this, the control room watchers (?) were quite noisy each time there was a success point.

I stopped watching (as we lost the feed) just after they said the dragon capsule had splashed down and of the fast boats was heading over to it ...


----------



## Detroit City (Jan 19, 2020)

2hats said:


> Not much choice if you want to convincingly demonstrate emergency escape during the most critical ascent phase through the upper troposphere. The F9 first and second stages were fully fuelled and the first stage going to survive re-orientation. The second stage fell intact to the ocean surface where it exploded on impact.


I suppose you're right 2hats


----------



## weltweit (Jan 19, 2020)

2hats Am I right in presuming this is part of qualifying to take astronauts to the space station?


----------



## 2hats (Jan 19, 2020)

weltweit said:


> 2hats Am I right in presuming this is part of qualifying to take astronauts to the space station?


Human spaceflight qualification requirement.


----------



## a_chap (Jan 19, 2020)

I haven't watched this (I'd rather eat razor blades than listen to Elon Musk) but I'll post it here for those who are interested:


----------



## ricbake (Jan 19, 2020)

P


2hats said:


> Human spaceflight qualification requirement.


Presumably it wasn't a requirement NASA had to meet in 1986...


----------



## 2hats (Jan 19, 2020)

ricbake said:


> P
> 
> Presumably it wasn't a requirement NASA had to meet in 1986...


There was an ejector seat option (on Columbia and Enterprise) but only for commander and pilot, so it was disabled in late 1982 (after STS-4 when more than two people would fly), and was of dubious utility since the operator(s) would likely have ended up passing through the SRM exhaust plume (and it wasn't qualified to be used at altitudes and velocities seen post SRB shutdown).


----------



## HAL9000 (Jan 19, 2020)

Apollo had a reasonable escape system, it was a costly omission for the shuttle program.


----------



## paul mckenna (Jan 20, 2020)

StoneRoad said:


> Watched the live feed for this, the control room watchers (?) were quite noisy each time there was a success point.
> 
> I stopped watching (as we lost the feed) just after they said the dragon capsule had splashed down and of the fast boats was heading over to it ...


It's almost as if i were there in person


----------



## Crispy (Jan 20, 2020)

Detroit City said:


> No I was just surprised that they would waste an entire vehicle


tbf that particular booster had already flown and landed 3 times, so it's already far less wasteful than any other rocket. |Two of its stablemates have already flown 4 times. With up to 24 Starlink launches planned this year, we might even see one of them reach 10 reflights; the design goal.


----------



## Detroit City (Jan 20, 2020)

Crispy said:


> tbf that particular booster had already flown and landed 3 times, so it's already far less wasteful than any other rocket. |Two of its stablemates have already flown 4 times. With up to 24 Starlink launches planned this year, we might even see one of them reach 10 reflights; the design goal.


I didn't know that, thank you


----------



## 2hats (May 16, 2020)

SpaceX's Crew Dragon is currently targeting a launch on Wed 27 May at 2132BT for the Demo 2 crewed flight to the ISS. There is a very promising twilight ascent pass 20 minutes after launch for the southern half of the UK (weather permitting).

e2a: The ISS itself will have made a high pass from W to E through the zenith about 10 minutes before the _launch_ time.


----------



## 2hats (May 24, 2020)

Slight tweak to the above. Crew Dragon launch now targeting 21:33:33 BST so the finder chart for southern England looks like this with a a pass from W to E starting at 2152BST (start looking below and to the right of the crescent Moon).


----------



## editor (May 27, 2020)

Love this comparison: 

Space Shuttle 1999







Space X






It still looks like a prop off a sci-film to me!
















						Photos of the Sleek New Ride Ready To Return US Astronauts To Space
					

This is the SpaceX Crew Dragon capsule, sitting on its cargo-carrying “trunk”. The dragon will (God willing) carry two astronauts to the International




					petapixel.com


----------



## 2hats (May 27, 2020)

Chances of favourable weather currently only estimated to be 60%. Weather has to be acceptable off both the Florida/Carolinas coast, and in the St John's and Shannon abort landing areas, either side of the Downrange Abort Exclusion Zone.




Recent CV-22 movements have been noted in the SW; these may be providing support for the Shannon Abort Landing Area.


----------



## WouldBe (May 27, 2020)

Hope the launch tonight goes well. Meanwhile ITV are showing Apollo 13.


----------



## 2hats (May 27, 2020)

State vector updates have tuned the launch time to 21:33:31 BST. A two second change - so the above finding chart still applies.  Unfortunately there is a bit of a risk of cloud loitering in the SE around the time of the ascent pass.

Weather forecast in the drop zones off the Carolinas not looking good though.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 27, 2020)

The NASA/Space X live feed has started here:


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2020)

It will be a LOT of NASA puff for the next three hours.


----------



## 2hats (May 27, 2020)

Launch site and downrange weather has improved a little.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 27, 2020)

Crispy said:


> It will be a LOT of NASA puff for the next three hours.



Hah, very much so. Was interesting getting a look at the astronauts live from the suiting-up room, mind you.


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2020)

Every time you see a stars and stripes, take a sip. Every time you see the profile of an eagle's head, finish your drink


----------



## Tankus (May 27, 2020)

nasa social media u tubers  lol..

.where's Raymond Baxter when you need him


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 27, 2020)

Proper excited for this


----------



## Tankus (May 27, 2020)

ack ...Trump ....in desperate need  of some tv time


----------



## ffsear (May 27, 2020)

Weather not looking great!?


----------



## weltweit (May 27, 2020)

So, is it right they haven't yet fuelled the rocket?


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2020)

weltweit said:


> So, is it right they haven't yet fuelled the rocket?


Correct. Fuel pumps on at T-35 minutes


----------



## weltweit (May 27, 2020)

ffsear said:


> Weather not looking great!?


What kind of weather will be an issue for launch?


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2020)

weltweit said:


> What kind of weather will be an issue for launch?


Lots of things can prevent it. Heavy rain at the pad. Wind shear at high altitudes.
For this mission, they also have to consider the weather at sea in case they have to use the emergency abort system.


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

What time's the launch scheduled for?


----------



## weltweit (May 27, 2020)

At least one of Musk's enterprises is still running in these covid-19 times


----------



## weltweit (May 27, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> What time's the launch scheduled for?


46 minutes time


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 27, 2020)

I know it's all very clever, but it's not as beautiful as the shuttle.


----------



## weltweit (May 27, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I know it's all very clever, but it's not as beautiful as the shuttle.


Don't you think the rockets coming back and landing standing up is beautiful? 

When I was a kid all rockets landed that way.


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> What time's the launch scheduled for?


21:33 UK time


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I know it's all very clever, but it's not as beautiful as the shuttle.


Starship will be quite the looker


----------



## Limejuice (May 27, 2020)

Glued to the online feed. 



Spymaster said:


> What time's the launch scheduled for?


Call it 21.30 (plus a bit).

But low-ish cloud over Kent, so if the launch is go, we probably won't see it from my back garden.

(can I get a refund on my council tax?)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 27, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Don't you think the rockets coming back and landing standing up is beautiful?


That's all _clever_. But it's just a little tiny capsule sat on top of a firework. The shuttle looked like a _spaceship_.


----------



## Limejuice (May 27, 2020)

So, about 16 minutes to verify launch conditions.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 27, 2020)

Really hope it goes tonight. 3 times in my life I went to Kennedy to watch the shuttle take off. 3 times the fucking thing didn't launch, once with just _3 seconds_ to go


----------



## Limejuice (May 27, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Really hope it goes tonight. 3 times in my life I went to Kennedy to watch the shuttle take off. 3 times the fucking thing didn't launch, once with just _3 seconds_ to go


Bummer!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 27, 2020)

Cock


----------



## Limejuice (May 27, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Cock


You are James May, and I claim my five pounds.


----------



## 2hats (May 27, 2020)

And that's a scrub.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 27, 2020)

Bollocks


----------



## Limejuice (May 27, 2020)

Arse. It's a scrub.


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

Cancelled


----------



## Limejuice (May 27, 2020)

Next launch time?


----------



## 2hats (May 27, 2020)

Saturday 30th May, 2022 BST.


----------



## Tankus (May 27, 2020)

Ah well


----------



## Limejuice (May 27, 2020)

Tankus said:


> Ah well


That's pretty much the anthem of my lockdown.


----------



## ffsear (May 27, 2020)

2hats said:


> Saturday 30th May, 2022 BST.



See you then. Bring ya tools!!


----------



## Epona (May 27, 2020)

I think this is the first thread I've actually subscribed to, figured this is my best chance of not forgetting to tune in again on Saturday


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

Epona said:


> I think this is the first thread I've actually subscribed to, figured this is my best chance of not forgetting to tune in again on Saturday


I just set a reminder


----------



## 2hats (May 28, 2020)

Instantaneous launch time now targeted for 20:22:41BST on Saturday.


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

Despite an estimated 50% chance of launch weather safety criteria violations today (concerns primarily for rain and lightning activity in the vicinity of the pad), they are now targeting an instantaneous launch time of 20:22:45 BST.

This is obviously too early to see the Crew Dragon on the ascent pass over the UK naked eye (the Sun won't have quite set yet), but there is a chance of seeing it low in the SSW on the second orbit, chasing the ISS.

The ISS should rise in the west around 2209BST and the Crew Dragon will follow at 2214BST, both tracing a similar low arc from west to south-east via the south.



NASA TV  live coverage starts at 1600BST.


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

SpaceX Feed is here :


----------



## Tankus (May 30, 2020)

est launch 20:22 GMT

be even  more nervous  after this yesterday


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 30, 2020)

Weather (and everything else) is GO at T-45. C'mon Florida weather, give us a break today.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 30, 2020)

Starting to look good, fingers crossed...


----------



## Tankus (May 30, 2020)

oooerrrr


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 30, 2020)

8 mins to go. Exciting


----------



## Crispy (May 30, 2020)

Buitterflies


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

Lightning field mills are all green. No precipitation concerns.


----------



## A380 (May 30, 2020)

Come on .


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> 8 mins to go. Exciting


Glad I saw your post, my life feed had gotten 60 minutes delayed :-/


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

There is something uniquely American that the two astronauts are being referred to as "Bob & Doug"


----------



## Tankus (May 30, 2020)

heh ..."Bob and Doug"s next great adventure


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

Just a British contribution to the American applause 

Yay


----------



## A380 (May 30, 2020)

Bob and Doug!


----------



## T & P (May 30, 2020)

All going smoothly so far


----------



## A380 (May 30, 2020)

First stage landed !


----------



## ginger_syn (May 30, 2020)

Its quite exciting.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 30, 2020)

Are they wearing wellies?


----------



## Tankus (May 30, 2020)

they needed string for that blue inflatable  diplodocus  . so not fully equipped  , 

Elon should have got them some welsh wellies


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

19 hours till arrival at the space station.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 30, 2020)

YES YES YES YES YES


----------



## Numbers (May 30, 2020)

Can we see this in the UK?


----------



## Tankus (May 30, 2020)

50 years to come full circle


----------



## Epona (May 30, 2020)

That was epic


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

The nose cone is deployed ..  

What language is this because it certainly isn't English ..

Thrust is nominal .. 

wtf 

:-/


----------



## Limejuice (May 30, 2020)

I enjoyed that.

I'm raising a glass to rocketeers everywhere.


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

What is this business of throttling down for max Q (is it, max resistance or something)?


----------



## 20Bees (May 30, 2020)

Wow 
Like the kid watching Apollo 11 all those years ago, I’ve been sitting here twitching and squeaking and the dog keeps bringing toys to make it better


----------



## 20Bees (May 30, 2020)

Understatement of the week!


ginger_syn said:


> Its quite exciting.


----------



## Crispy (May 30, 2020)

weltweit said:


> What is this business of throttling down for max Q (is it, max resistance or something)?


This is when the aerodynamic forces are at their highest. The rocket is getting faster and faster, while the atmosphere is getting thinner and thinner. Max Q is when the effect of the thinning atmosphere outweighs the increasing speed and the air resistance starts to slack off. They deliberately lower the thrust at this time to keep the vehicle stresses low.


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

Numbers said:


> Can we see this in the UK?


Look upthread.


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

Crispy said:


> This is when the aerodynamic forces are at their highest. The rocket is getting faster and faster, while the atmosphere is getting thinner and thinner. Max Q is when the effect of the thinning atmosphere outweighs the increasing speed and the air resistance starts to slack off. They deliberately lower the thrust at this time to keep the vehicle stresses low.


Thanks Crispy, I figured it was something like that, they only throttled back for a short time though which is interesting. 

Watching the post launch interview with the NASA boss, they were all quite nervous, the NASA boss said he was praying. Should they really have such little confidence?


----------



## Crispy (May 30, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Thanks Crispy, I figured it was something like that, they only throttled back for a short time though which is interesting.
> 
> Watching the post launch interview with the NASA boss, they were all quite nervous, the NASA boss said he was praying. Should they really have such little confidence?


Even the safest spaceflight is still a hairy business.


----------



## Epona (May 30, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Thanks Crispy, I figured it was something like that, they only throttled back for a short time though which is interesting.
> 
> Watching the post launch interview with the NASA boss, they were all quite nervous, the NASA boss said he was praying. Should they really have such little confidence?



Basically you have humans in a small capsule strapped to the top of a massive fucking explosive device, anyone who _isn't _shitting their pants to some degree has something wrong with them...


----------



## T & P (May 30, 2020)

A380 said:


> First stage landed !


On the NASA live channel on YouTube (I’d imagine the same everywhere else) they lost the feed showing stage one about to land just at the wrong fucking moment. Annoying as fuck.

And I’m no conspiracy theorist but I can imagine a conspiraloon getting a hard-on about the length of the loss of feed as well. The screen went black for just 3-4 seconds in my estimation, and when it came back the rocket had fully landed and was at rest with no smoke visible, as if it had landed a good 10 seconds prior.


----------



## Detroit City (May 30, 2020)

Epona said:


> Basically you have humans in a small capsule strapped to the top of a massive fucking explosive device, anyone who _isn't _shitting their pants to some degree has something wrong with them...


indeed


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

T & P said:


> On the NASA live channel on YouTube (I’d imagine the same everywhere else) they lost the feed showing stage one about to land just at the wrong fucking moment. Annoying as fuck.


It almost always gets lost as the first stage landing _literally_ rocks the boat and thus disturbs the satellite uplink.

First phasing burn underway. e2a: Burn completed. Nominal. The chase is on.


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

Crispy said:


> Even the safest spaceflight is still a hairy business.





Epona said:


> Basically you have humans in a small capsule strapped to the top of a massive fucking explosive device, anyone who _isn't _shitting their pants to some degree has something wrong with them...



They should have a bit more confidence in their engineering teams & technology.

If any of them really thinks they need God's blessing for a safe flight they really are soft in the head!



> Since June 2010, rockets from the Falcon 9 family have been launched 87 times, with 85 full mission successes, one partial failure and one total loss of spacecraft (numbers current as of 22 April 2020).


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

2hats said:


> ..
> First phasing burn underway. e2a: Burn completed. Nominal. the chase is on.


When did the language start using "nominal" for "ok" or "as expected"?


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

weltweit said:


> When did the language start using "nominal" for "ok" or "as expected"?


Nominal has been used in the US space program[me] since the 60s.


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

2hats said:


> Nominal has been used in the US space program[me] since the 60s.


Is its meaning distinct from as expected or generally ok?


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Is its meaning distinct from as expected or generally ok?


Functioning within acceptable performance limits/achieving acceptable targets.


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

In about 5 minutes they are going to conduct the first ever manual flight demo with the craft, to test maneuverability prior to ISS docking, for contingency backup scenarios (ie having to hand fly to a docking if the automated 'autopilot' system encounters issues).

PS in the meantime if you want to have a crack yourself try here...









						SPACEX - ISS Docking Simulator
					

This simulator will familiarize you with the controls of the actual interface used by NASA Astronauts to manually pilot the SpaceX Dragon 2 vehicle to the International Space Station.




					iss-sim.spacex.com


----------



## weltweit (May 30, 2020)

Looks like they have taken off their gloves helmets and space suit tops now.


----------



## Maggot (May 30, 2020)

2hats said:


> The ISS should rise in the west around 2209BST and the Crew Dragon will follow at 2214BST, both tracing a similar low arc from west to south-east via the south.


I saw the ISS but not the rocket.


----------



## AverageJoe (May 30, 2020)

We saw it. It was shifting. 

Was saying to the Mrs that two months ago all we'd seen in the sky was planets and stuff, and now we've seen a couple of strings of satellites arcing through the sky and now a Goddamed Actual Space Rocket With People In It. 

What a time to be alive!


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

The ISS was an easy target as always but the Crew Dragon was far dimmer. Probably around magnitude +3 at brightest? Hard to see naked eye in a twilight light polluted city sky at low elevation; caught it in binoculars. That's the only realistic viewing opportunity for the UK on this mission. Reports from continental Europe put it as a magnitude +2 object in darker skies. In central Europe folks saw both the Crew Dragon and upper stage (prior to disposal burn) as two closely paired objects on the orbit 1 ascent pass.

The launch was caught in GOES-16's water vapour band imagery.


----------



## existentialist (May 30, 2020)

weltweit said:


> They should have a bit more confidence in their engineering teams & technology.
> 
> If any of them really thinks they need God's blessing for a safe flight they really are soft in the head!


I think, when you are operating at the outside edges of the risk envelope - and that's a lot more true of spaceflight than a quick trip to B&Q on the A30 - you take anything you can get that might improve your chances.

There's no atheists in foxholes, and there probably aren't that many in control of a gazillion pounds of controlled chemical explosion, either.


----------



## 2hats (May 30, 2020)

That Crew Dragon capsule has just been named as 'Endeavour'. Crew press conference event underway.


----------



## existentialist (May 30, 2020)

Oh, and if there's anyone still needing persuading of the magnitude of the risks involved in spaceflight, go and have a listen to the second series of "13 minutes to the moon", which is all about Apollo 13. 

I dare you to listen to that and remain complacent.


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

Recent interview with Elon Musk (from 10:37)


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2020)

I saw a dot moving. But I guess it was probably the ISS?


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

According to their feed, the capsule is orbiting earth about 16 times a day at the moment. 
To help Bob & Doug sleep they have shades to cover the windows.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 31, 2020)

2hats said:


> That Crew Dragon capsule has just been named as 'Endeavour'.



Nice of them to tribute Inspector Morse like that 😎


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 31, 2020)

What time are they due to dock with the ISS?


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What time are they due to dock with the ISS?


I don't know yet but will try and find out. 

5 minutes to Bob & Doug wake up


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I don't know yet but will try and find out.



According to Google : 





> 10:29 a.m. EDT
> 
> When will Dragon dock with ISS? If everything goes as planned, the SpaceX Dragon capsule will dock with the ISS on Sunday at 10:29 a.m. EDT (1429 GMT) to the Harmony module's International Docking Adapter. NASA is doing a 26-hour long coverage of the entire event.



So 1429 GMT


----------



## fishfinger (May 31, 2020)

weltweit said:


> According to Google :
> 
> So GMT? We are on DST now ..


15:29 BST


----------



## DownwardDog (May 31, 2020)

weltweit said:


> When did the language start using "nominal" for "ok" or "as expected"?



Ok is not useful for radio comms as it's short enough to be ambiguous if there is static or dropout. Hence, "roger","copy", etc.


----------



## tommers (May 31, 2020)

Can somebody tell me why everyone is going on about this? People go to the ISS all the time don't they? I'm confused.


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

tommers said:


> Can somebody tell me why everyone is going on about this? People go to the ISS all the time don't they? I'm confused.


First time since the stopping of the shuttle program that an American vehicle has taken American astronauts to the space station.

First time a commercial rocket has taken astronauts to the space station.

First time SpaceX has taken astronauts to the space station.


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

And, first time a reusable rocket has taken a crew to the ISS.


----------



## DownwardDog (May 31, 2020)

It's also the probable death of the Russian space program. No more $80m Ubers to the ISS.


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

DownwardDog said:


> It's also the probable death of the Russian space program. No more $80m Ubers to the ISS.


Shame, reliable technology no?

Is there a schedule of future trips and is there a Russian element to it?


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

They are saying distances in kilometers. Is that because it is the "International" Space Station?


----------



## 2hats (May 31, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Shame, reliable technology no?


Falcon 9 Block 5 has a 100% launch reliability record (29/29); Falcon 9 Full Thrust also a 100% launch reliability record (65/65). Soyuz FG has a 98.5% launch reliability record (68/69).


> Is there a schedule of future trips and is there a Russian element to it?


This year another SpaceX Crew Dragon mission to the ISS is planned for August. Boeing hope to get their crewed CST-100 Starliner to the ISS before the end of the year. Then there is one planned Soyuz mission to the ISS in October to take up the Expedition 63 crew.

So far for 2021, to build the Expedition 64 crew, there is scheduled one Boeing flight and one Soyuz, both in April. Plus there is a third SpaceX Crew Dragon mission slated for May.


> They are saying distances in kilometers. Is that because it is the "International" Space Station?


SpaceX work in metric.


----------



## Mogden (May 31, 2020)

Twitter lit up last night with Flat Earthers and their fish eye lens theory 

I watched last night and then a catch up programme this morning via YouTube. I just find it so incredible and weird. We can walk for miles and it's not exciting but change the trajectory and it's literally a different world.


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

<2.5 hours to earliest docking time.


----------



## tommers (May 31, 2020)

DownwardDog said:


> It's also the probable death of the Russian space program. No more $80m Ubers to the ISS.



How much will Elon charge?


----------



## 2hats (May 31, 2020)

tommers said:


> How much will Elon charge?


It's costing NASA around $55 million per seat on F9/Crew Dragon, whilst they pay $86 million per seat on Soyuz. The estimated cost for the Boeing CST-100 Starliner will be around $90 million per seat. For comparison, the shuttle cost at least $200 million per seat to the ISS.


----------



## MrSki (May 31, 2020)




----------



## Limejuice (May 31, 2020)

It's cool to see the maneuvering thrusters firing against the dark background of the Earth.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2020)




----------



## Limejuice (May 31, 2020)

Great pictures of the last few metres!


----------



## Crispy (May 31, 2020)

I've got this on in the background


----------



## 2hats (May 31, 2020)

(Final) hatch opening around 1800BST. Crew Dragon welcome ceremony due 1815BST.

Bright twilight pass of the ISS this evening, with the Crew Dragon docked, starting at 2120BST. (The Sun is only about 3 degrees below the horizon at the time).


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)




----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

2hats said:


> (Final) hatch opening around 1800BST. Crew Dragon welcome ceremony due 1815BST.
> 
> Bright twilight pass of the ISS this evening, with the Crew Dragon docked, starting at 2120BST. (The Sun is only about 3 degrees below the horizon at the time).
> View attachment 215540


2hats which part of the sky should we be looking in?


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2020)

I think I saw it again. Thanks for posting 2hats


----------



## 2hats (May 31, 2020)

Easy object in small binoculars. Brilliant white as it slid under the Moon.


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2020)

2hats said:


> Easy object in small binoculars. Brilliant white as it slid under the Moon.


Nope missed it, shame. Another time.


----------



## Limejuice (May 31, 2020)

weltweit said:


> Nope missed it, shame. Another time.


Ditto,

Sigh.


----------



## MrSki (Jun 1, 2020)




----------



## teuchter (Jun 1, 2020)

Jury's out on 5G frying your brain or whether the moon landings were real but seriously do they expect us to believe that a rocket flying backwards can land on a platform rocking around in the middle of the sea?


----------



## 2hats (Jun 27, 2020)




----------



## NoXion (Jun 27, 2020)

editor said:


> Love this comparison:
> 
> Space Shuttle 1999
> 
> ...



Can't say that I approve of replacing almost every physical dial and switch with bloody touchscreens (FFS). What happens when a screen breaks? You've now just lost control of a whole bunch of stuff, and you might even lose the ability to check on the status of critical systems, if the screen stops displaying stuff. You might be able to jury-rig a fix for a physical switch, or otherwise test it with a multimeter, to see if it's still working even if the little light on the switch has blown out. How the fuck would you field-repair or bypass a broken touch display? I wouldn't want to try soldering anything in a confined space, in free-fall.

I don't think having touchscreens is a 100% bad idea for a spacecraft cockpit, but it looks like they've made them the predominant control interface and info display, with hardly any backup systems. This is especially puzzling for a control interface that is far more sensitive to damage and interference, than a physical switch with no micro-scale components that could be disrupted by cosmic radiation.

Space is a hostile environment, even considering the fact that LEO is still well within the majority of the Earth's protective magnetosphere. In such cases I think you really shouldn't be putting so much reliance on flashy, gimmicky toys, as opposed to solid and proven engineering that has been proven to be reliable for decades. What happens if NASA ever decides to go beyond LEO?

For comparison, here's the interior of a 747-8, a modern commercial aircraft. Note how even though it's a plane that first flew as recently as 2010, and is not expected to deal with the harsher conditions of LEO, the designers didn't go batshit and replace everything with goddamn touchscreens.






Of course I'm no engineer, so I might be well off the mark in my assessment. But given my own experience with touchscreen interfaces vs physical switches, this looks like they went more for "ooh flashy" rather than practicality. Style over substance.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 27, 2020)

It’s very simple. Massive walls of dials, switches and knobs are cool. A screen will never, ever be that.


----------



## HAL9000 (Jun 28, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Can't say that I approve of replacing almost every physical dial and switch with bloody touchscreens (FFS). What happens when a screen breaks? You've now just lost control of a whole bunch of stuff, and you might even lose the ability to check on the status of critical systems, if the screen stops displaying stuff. You might be able to jury-rig a fix for a physical switch, or otherwise test it with a multimeter, to see if it's still working even if the little light on the switch has blown out. How the fuck would you field-repair or bypass a broken touch display? I wouldn't want to try soldering anything in a confined space, in free-fall.
> 
> I don't think having touchscreens is a 100% bad idea for a spacecraft cockpit, but it looks like they've made them the predominant control interface and info display, with hardly any backup systems. This is especially puzzling for a control interface that is far more sensitive to damage and interference, than a physical switch with no micro-scale components that could be disrupted by cosmic radiation.
> 
> ...



My guess is that for spacex their role is spam in can, computers doing the flying.   Where as with Apollo and Space shuttles, astronauts were expected to do some flying.

(buttons for changing radio channels on steering wheel significantly better than trackpads or touch screen   )


----------



## 2hats (Jun 28, 2020)

There are a few tactile, physical buttons, selectors for time critical/emergency procedures (replicated on the touchscreens) below the finger tray at the bottom of the touchscreen displays (which itself provides a reference point, to rest part of the hand/wrist upon, for helping make screen selections during the ride to orbit). Those switches are for (eg) initiating ascent abort modes, deorbit, depressurisation, cabin fire suppression, emergency lighting...

Note 26 seconds into this short video of the interior:


----------



## NoXion (Jun 28, 2020)

HAL9000 said:


> My guess is that for spacex their role is spam in can, computers doing the flying.   Where as with Apollo and Space shuttles, astronauts were expected to do some flying.
> 
> (buttons for changing radio channels on steering wheel significantly better than trackpads or touch screen   )





2hats said:


> There are a few tactile, physical buttons, selectors for time critical/emergency procedures (replicated on the touchscreens) below the finger tray at the bottom of the touchscreen displays (which itself provides a reference point, to rest part of the hand/wrist upon, for helping make screen selections during the ride to orbit). Those switches are for (eg) initiating ascent abort modes, deorbit, depressurisation, cabin fire suppression, emergency lighting...
> 
> Note 26 seconds into this short video of the interior:




I didn't think they'd gotten rid of all the other buttons, but I swear that I've seen more actual buttons on the consoles of most consumer vehicles. I'd really love to hear comments on the design from the perspective of those aerospace engineers who are not working for SpaceX. Their design philosophy makes me uneasy. I really don't think space is the place for taking this neoliberal de-skilling approach that's insanely popular elsewhere in society. I know they probably want less expensive (i.e. less skilled) people to pilot their vehicles, but if even commercial airlines haven't found a way of completely replacing trained pilots with strategically shaved chimps, then what makes SpaceX think that they can get away with it?

Personally I wouldn't want to travel on a spacecraft where none of the crew knows how to use a slide rule in an emergency. I bet they don't even have a slide rule on board, with markings in radioluminescent paint in case the lights aren't working. Nah, I bet they've replaced it with some New Age music and a pamphlet on mindfulness, "Coming to Terms With your Impending Demise". California was a mistake.


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

The Dragon Endeavour capsule is due to splash down today (Sunday, 2 August 2020) at 19:40 BST.

Hmm, what to watch... Countryfile or ROCKETS..?


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2020)

Live video feed here: 





> After 62 days in space, approximately 1,024 orbits around our planet and four spacewalks, our #LaunchAmerica crew members are on their way home!
> 
> Watch our live coverage Sunday, Aug. 2, starting at 7:25 a.m. EDT to see NASA Astronauts Robert Behnken and Douglas Hurley, aboard SpaceX’s Crew Dragon Endeavour spacecraft, on their journey to splash down in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Pensacola, Florida. Splashdown is currently targeted for 2:48 p.m. EDT.


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2020)

"Nominal burn" - they're now committed to reentry.


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

The landing site weather is excellent, it seems, in the Gulf of Mexico not far from Pensacola.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2020)

Geeza with the tie behind the bald fell with the tie is wearing SHOES  😎


----------



## a_chap (Aug 2, 2020)

Would it kill them to provide some live telemetry?


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

I hope there'll be some exterior shots at some point. So far, it's all a little ho hum visually.

C'mon, folks, this is a BIG thing happening.


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2020)

Limejuice said:


> I hope there'll be some exterior shots at some point. So far, it's all a little ho hum visually.
> 
> C'mon, folks, this is a BIG thing happening.


Yeah even some graphic mock ups would make this a load more engaging.


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

Oooh, they have a high-altitude plane in the area.

Fingers crossed for some exciting pictures.


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

They're through the blackout safely.


----------



## a_chap (Aug 2, 2020)

Seems like the YouTube broadcast is anything but "live"


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2020)

Looking good!


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

Four good 'chutes.


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

Splashdown!


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2020)

Fantastic achievement.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2020)

“Thanks for flying Space X”


----------



## Maggot (Aug 2, 2020)

That was cool.


----------



## Epona (Aug 2, 2020)

Nice one!


----------



## OneStrike (Aug 2, 2020)

They are epic, regardless of everything, they achieve some mad shit.


----------



## Supine (Aug 2, 2020)

Good stuff. Managed to tune in one minute before splashdown


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

They'll need to touch up that paint-work on the capsule.


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

Did I just see a small boat sail past the capsule with someone waving a blue Trump flag?

*rubs eyes.


----------



## Epona (Aug 2, 2020)

They should keep hold of their suits too, might be safer than wandering around unprotected right now...


----------



## Epona (Aug 2, 2020)

Is anyone watching the live feed still?


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

Epona said:


> Is anyone watching the live feed still?


Yes.

They're 'working the purge'.


----------



## Epona (Aug 2, 2020)

Readings in the cabin OK


----------



## OneStrike (Aug 2, 2020)

Epona said:


> Is anyone watching the live feed still?


Linky please, I had one earlier but my my mates will confirm i'm next fo useless.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2020)

Why don’t they let them out? Bet they’re busting for a piss.


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Why don’t they let them out? Bet they’re busting for a piss.


They detected a bit of toxic fumes from the fuel. Not too bad, but they figured they could get the levels to zero, that would be safest for everyone.

Can't they just pee in their pants? I mean, Snuggies aren't expensive.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2020)

Limejuice said:


> They detected a bit of toxic fumes



Probly just farts, I’d be trumping if you dropped me through the stratosphere in a metal box with just a couple of parachutes...


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Probly just farts, I’d be trumping if you dropped me through the stratosphere in a metal box with just a couple of parachutes...


The fumes were detected outside. If anything, it was the capsule crapping itself on the way down.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2020)

Can’t say I blame it.


----------



## Epona (Aug 2, 2020)

They are about to emerge now, whatever happened to cause the fumes, it shows that they had procedures in place to deal with it and all seems to be ok.


----------



## Limejuice (Aug 2, 2020)

Well, that was small piece of history.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 2, 2020)

Probably just having a wank, I would.


----------



## Epona (Aug 2, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Probably just having a wank, I would.



Honestly I prefer a bit more privacy than being shut in a small capsule in close proximity with someone I am not in a relationship with and with a camera crew outside and the world watching. 

But whatever floats your boat/capsule I suppose


----------



## TopCat (Aug 3, 2020)

Musk has made a point.


----------



## a_chap (Aug 5, 2020)

Starship: the grain-silo flies!!


----------



## TopCat (Aug 5, 2020)

a_chap said:


> Starship: the grain-silo flies!!



What was that?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2020)

TopCat said:


> What was that?


30m tall prototype of Starship, their 100-person Mars ship.


----------



## fredhurst (Aug 5, 2020)

the last ark to Mars when the next pandemic or major catastrophe strikes Earth 😞



Crispy said:


> 30m tall prototype of Starship, their 100-person Mars ship.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2020)

fredhurst said:


> the last ark to Mars when the next pandemic or major catastrophe strikes Earth 😞


That's literally the idea. Spread humanity around the solar system to keep it safe.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 5, 2020)

Crispy said:


> That's literally the idea. Spread humanity around the solar system to keep it safe.


Are they sending three craft?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2020)

Hundreds


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 5, 2020)

a_chap said:


> Starship: the grain-silo flies!!


That's actually pretty awesome but it would have been funny if it had smacked into the other one they seem to be building next to it. I would have thought they would have been better spread out.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> That's actually pretty awesome but it would have been funny if it had smacked into the other one they seem to be building next to it. I would have thought they would have been better spread out.


That's an old one, hacked together by a water tower construction company. It flew just once, about a year ago. Now it's just a camera and radio antenna platform. The factory is a few miles further inland


----------



## T & P (Aug 6, 2020)

If the ‘space lift’ theory, whereby a geostationary wrench satellite with a sufficiently long cable could lift up objects into orbit with a significantly smaller energy cost than flying them on a rocket is really feasible as it’s apparently claimed, shouldn’t we be concentrating on developing that technology first?

I mean, it goes without saying that assembling and launching a spaceship in microgravity would enable us to build a much bigger and better fucker than having to launch it from the surface.


----------



## Epona (Aug 6, 2020)

T & P said:


> If the ‘space lift’ theory, whereby a geostationary wrench satellite with a sufficiently long cable could lift up objects into orbit with a significantly smaller energy cost than flying them on a rocket is really feasible as it’s apparently claimed, shouldn’t we be concentrating on developing that technology first?
> 
> I mean, it goes without saying that assembling and launching a spaceship in microgravity would enable us to build a much bigger and better fucker than having to launch it from the surface.



How are you launching it from up there once it is built?  I'm shit at maths but I have a gut reaction that the reason launches from earth work is because the rocket being launched is being launched from something of large mass (ie Earth) for the propelling explosion to push against.  Or are you talking about lifting pieces to the moon and launching from there? Or a different way of inducing motion entirely?

Sorry if I am being a bit daft and it is an odd question to ask I am not a rocket scientist - I just am finding it difficult to get a mental image of how it would work.  Both to haul pieces up and subesquently launch them would require some sort of structure in orbit of considerable mass, surely?


----------



## existentialist (Aug 6, 2020)

Epona said:


> How are you launching it from up there once it is built?  I'm shit at maths but I have a gut reaction that the reason launches from earth work is because the rocket being launched is being launched from something of large mass (ie Earth) for the propelling explosion to push against.  Or are you talking about lifting pieces to the moon and launching from there? Or a different way of inducing motion entirely?
> 
> Sorry if I am being a bit daft and it is an odd question to ask I am not a rocket scientist - I just am finding it difficult to get a mental image of how it would work.  Both to haul pieces up and subesquently launch them would require some sort of structure in orbit of considerable mass, surely?


The "space elevator" idea is that you lift rocket parts to a lower-gravity environment where it is less energy-expensive to launch from: having got the satellite into orbit, and dangled the very long cable back to earth, you are not having to expend the vast amounts of energy currently necessary to accelerate out of the Earth's gravity well.

The big problem with space elevators is that we don't (yet) have the technology to build cables strong enough. The big hopes seem to be pinned on nanotubes.


----------



## a_chap (Aug 6, 2020)

What's always puzzled me about space elevators is the idea that they can lift things *up* from the Earth.

Surely pulling on the cable would simply pull the satellite *down* out of orbit...


----------



## existentialist (Aug 6, 2020)

a_chap said:


> What's always puzzled me about space elevators is the idea that they can lift things *up* from the Earth.
> 
> Surely pulling on the cable would simply pull the satellite *down* out of orbit...


We may never know, until we get the strong string.


----------



## Signal 11 (Aug 6, 2020)

Epona said:


> I have a gut reaction that the reason launches from earth work is because the rocket being launched is being launched from something of large mass (ie Earth) for the propelling explosion to push against.


They don't need anything to push against. They work because momentum is conserved, so when they expel gasses from one end the rocket goes in the opposite direction.


----------



## T & P (Aug 6, 2020)

a_chap said:


> What's always puzzled me about space elevators is the idea that they can lift things *up* from the Earth.
> 
> Surely pulling on the cable would simply pull the satellite *down* out of orbit...


Maybe they'd be using the counterweight principle, like ordinary lifts on Earth. Weight goes up, equivalent weight (ballast) goes down on a parallel cable....

Wiki has a lengthy article on the principle for those who enjoy a long technical read...









						Space elevator - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Aug 11, 2020)

Is it just me or is this all really suspect? The videos are some clash of the titans shit.


----------



## a_chap (Aug 11, 2020)

T & P said:


> Maybe they'd be using the counterweight principle, like ordinary lifts on Earth. Weight goes up, equivalent weight (ballast) goes down on a parallel cable....



That's brilliant.

Twice the mass pulling it down to Earth


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 12, 2020)

T & P said:


> If the ‘space lift’ theory, whereby a geostationary wrench satellite with a sufficiently long cable could lift up objects into orbit with a significantly smaller energy cost than flying them on a rocket is really feasible as it’s apparently claimed, shouldn’t we be concentrating on developing that technology first?
> 
> I mean, it goes without saying that assembling and launching a spaceship in microgravity would enable us to build a much bigger and better fucker than having to launch it from the surface.




Something, something 22,000 mile long chain with the strength to pull up a big thing might be a tad on the heavy side...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 12, 2020)

Signal 11 said:


> They don't need anything to push against. They work because momentum is conserved, so when they expel gasses from one end the rocket goes in the opposite direction.




Each action has an equal and opposite reaction. So even in a near perfect vacuum of inter-stella space if you fire up a rocket it will give you propulsion. It doesn't fire against anything other than itself.


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2020)

Ssssschweet!











						Watch SpaceX boat catch falling payload fairing in giant net (video)
					

The video features some delightful lounge music.




					www.space.com


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Aug 19, 2020)

I’m going to have to put this thread on ignore. I keep reading the title as _Spandex pockets and paunches_ and then being disappointed when I realise my mistake.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Aug 19, 2020)

is this a massive prank. Like game of thrones?


----------



## a_chap (Sep 3, 2020)

The grain silo!

It flies again!!!


----------



## Detroit City (Sep 4, 2020)

Crispy said:


> That's literally the idea. Spread humanity around the solar system to keep it safe.


make sure the Kardashians don't get on board


----------



## existentialist (Oct 5, 2020)

Forrest White said:


> Since then, they have made more than 30 launches including also cargo delivery missions.


Welcome to the boards, Forrest White. You are clearly going to enjoy all the space-related content here


----------



## Crispy (Oct 23, 2020)

editor said:


> It still doesn't look quite real to me. It looks like some kid has made an oversized Dan Dare spaceship in their garden!


That one ruptured as soon as they tried pressuring the tanks. Shoddy rushed work.
One year later, with lots of refinement in the manufacturing and testing, Starship SN8 has been stacked. This time, it's robot-welded, pressure tested and test fired. The odds of a 15km test flight in the coming weeks are high.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 2, 2020)

Fantastic infographic from Tony Bela, detailing the upcoming 15km test flight of SN8. Click to zoom, right click and view image - the renders are beautiful


----------



## urbanspaceman (Nov 2, 2020)

[/QUOTE]


----------



## T & P (Nov 13, 2020)

A pretty momentous launch coming up this Saturday 









						Nasa poised to return to crewed spaceflight with SpaceX capsule launch
					

Public-private partnership with Elon Musk’s company to send four astronauts to international space station on Saturday




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Limejuice (Nov 14, 2020)

The planned launch has been postponed until early Monday, 16th Nov, due to bad weather. 

For UK times, the launch window opens at 00:27 GMT on Mon morning.


----------



## T & P (Nov 15, 2020)

Limejuice said:


> The planned launch has been postponed until early Monday, 16th Nov, due to bad weather.
> 
> For UK times, the launch window opens at 00:27 GMT on Mon morning.


I know that rockets are at heart a tube packed full of highly explosive materials and that you want to be as cautious as possible, but still, they seem to be extremely vulnerable to any kind of inclement weather aren’t they. Passenger airliners by comparison routinely fly in rotten weather, high winds, get hit by lightning...

Where is the red line weather-wise when it comes to rocket launches? Obviously tropical storms are a no-no, but are bog-standard rainy conditions like, say, an ordinary rainy day in UK, enough to delay a launch?


----------



## 2hats (Nov 15, 2020)

Depends on the rocket, payload and launch profile.

Falcon 9 Crew Dragon Launch Weather Criteria:

Do not launch if the sustained wind at the 162-foot level of the launch pad exceeds 30 mph.
Do not launch through upper-level conditions containing wind shear that could lead to control problems for the launch vehicle.
Do not launch for 30 minutes after lightning is observed within 10 nautical miles of the launch pad or the flight path, unless specified conditions can be met.
Do not launch within 10 nautical miles of an attached thunderstorm anvil cloud, unless temperature and time-associated distance criteria can be met. Do not launch within 10 nautical miles of a detached thunderstorm anvil cloud.
Do not launch within 3 nautical miles of a thunderstorm debris cloud, unless specific time associated distance criteria can be met.
Do not launch within 5 nautical miles of disturbed weather clouds that extend into freezing temperatures and contain moderate or greater precipitation, unless specific time-associated distance criteria can be met.
Do not launch for 15 minutes if field mill instrument readings within five nautical miles of the launch pad exceed +/- 1,500 volts per meter, or +/- 1,000 volts per meter if specified criteria can be met.
Do not launch through a cloud layer greater than 4,500 feet thick that extends into freezing temperatures, unless other specific criteria can be met.
Do not launch within 10 nautical miles of cumulus clouds with tops that extend into freezing temperatures, unless specific height-associated distance criteria can be met.
Do not launch within 10 nautical miles of the edge of a thunderstorm that is producing lightning within 30 minutes after the last lightning is observed.
Do not launch through cumulus clouds formed as the result of or directly attached to a smoke plume, unless time-associated criteria can be met.
Do not launch if downrange weather indicates violation of limits at splashdown in case of Dragon launch escape.
Do not launch if downrange weather shows high probability of violating limits at splashdown in case of Dragon launch escape.
Downrange weather is monitored at more than 50 locations along the ascent track along the North American eastern seaboard and across the North Atlantic.

Probability of violation is calculated for each location including limit conditions for wind, waves, lightning, and precipitation.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 15, 2020)

Soyuz, meanwhile, will happily launch in a snowstorm (wiuth crew on board)


----------



## Limejuice (Nov 15, 2020)

Here's  a live stream on YT:


----------



## Crispy (Dec 2, 2020)

Crispy said:


> Fantastic infographic from Tony Bela, detailing the upcoming 15km test flight of SN8. Click to zoom, right click and view image - the renders are beautiful


Looks like they will give this a go on Friday. They've got clearance from 09:00 local time so from 15:00 in UK


----------



## Crispy (Dec 4, 2020)

Now set for Monday


----------



## 2hats (Dec 5, 2020)

Falcon 9/Dragon CRS-21 launch due tomorrow at 1617UTC. The capsule should be visible over the UK around 1638UTC; some southern and western areas _might_ be relatively cloud free at the time (as per UKMO 1.5km unified model).


----------



## Crispy (Dec 5, 2020)

And 45m later, they have a Starship test window opening. Could be a busy day!


----------



## 2hats (Dec 6, 2020)

Just saw CRS Dragon and upper stage, very bright, racing across the twilight London sky.


----------



## platinumsage (Dec 6, 2020)

Dense fog here


----------



## Crispy (Dec 7, 2020)

Crispy said:


> Looks like they will give this a go on Friday. They've got clearance from 09:00 local time so from 15:00 in UK


Now Tuesday or Wednesday
I will spam this thread when there's a reliable T-0


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2020)

If you could do it a little before T-0 I'd be grateful.


----------



## StoneRoad (Dec 7, 2020)

me, too !


----------



## Crispy (Dec 7, 2020)

Official Spacex stream will be live here:


----------



## Crispy (Dec 7, 2020)

Timelapse of flap test



There should be an engine test this evening.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

Sun's up, window's open, but they're still working on the rocket


----------



## weltweit (Dec 8, 2020)

Is it just me - I don't understand how the flaps work, it seems each one is two pieces and can fold back toward the body, nope I don't get it! ?


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

A high-altitude NASA plane has filed a flightplan which puts it over the launch site at around 21:55 UK time, so expect thread bumps around then


weltweit said:


> Is it just me - I don't understand how the flaps work, it seems each one is two pieces and can fold back toward the body, nope I don't get it! ?


It's important to realise they're not wings; when it's flying forwards like a proper rocket, they don't do anything.
They're not traditional control surfaces like elevators or ailerons which cause lift perpendicular to the direction of flight.
They are more like speed brakes, which project into the oncoming air and cause drag parallel with the direction of flight.
During re-entry and landing approach, it will be falling belly-first. The flaps can tilt up and down to adjust how much drag they cause.
If the front flaps are retracted, they cause less drag, so the nose will pitch down.
If the  rear flaps are retracted, the nose will pitch up.
And so on. All three axes of control are available via various combinations of flap actuation.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 8, 2020)

Thanks Crispy great explanation


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

T minus 45-60 minutes or so


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

One of NASA's venerable WB-57s is in the air to film the high altitude parts of the flight (I doubt we'll get any live footage)








						NASA927 National Aeronautics and Space Administration Flight Tracking and History 08-Dec-2020 (KEFD-KEFD) - FlightAware
					

Track National Aeronautics and Space Administration  #927 flight from Houston Ellington to Houston Ellington




					uk.flightaware.com


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

Crispy said:


> One of NASA's venerable WB-57s is in the air to film the high altitude parts of the flight (I doubt we'll get any live footage)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There it is  41,000ft. That's how high Starship will get


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

Spacex stream not live yet, but the amateurs are doing a fine job


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

T minus 15m or so


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

SpaceX stream goes live in 1 minute

EDIT: Now live


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 8, 2020)

Exciting!!


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

T minus 1m!


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2020)

Boooooo


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 8, 2020)

Abort at T-1.3 seconds.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2020)

We're back on for tonight! T minus 30m or thereabouts


----------



## a_chap (Dec 9, 2020)

T-3:00 now apperently.

Weird that no-one seems to know for sure...


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2020)

SpaceX stream is live


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2020)

New T-0 ~ 22:40 UK time
EDIT 22:45


----------



## weltweit (Dec 9, 2020)

The Engineer Article that materials developments could permit spacecraft made from Aluminium. 

Alloy could launch manned spacecraft made from aluminium | The Engineer The Engineer


----------



## weltweit (Dec 9, 2020)

It has been venting a long time .. what is it venting?


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2020)

weltweit said:


> It has been venting a long time .. what is it venting?


Liquid oxygen
(Gaseous oxygen of course, once it's vented)
They continuously top it up as it boils off, to keep it cool


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 9, 2020)

One engine down and a lot of venting...

Is that supposed to happen?


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2020)

This is fucking nuts


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2020)

Limejuice said:


> One engine down and a lot of venting...
> 
> Is that supposed to happen?


Yes, thrust limiting to avoid going too high/fast


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 9, 2020)

Kabooom!!


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2020)

SICK as fuck


----------



## a_chap (Dec 9, 2020)

That. Was. Unbelievable.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 9, 2020)

I am guessing that landing was not to plan. 

Limited voice on the feed. 

But an awesome test is perhaps not what I would have described it.


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 9, 2020)

Well worth watching!


----------



## 2hats (Dec 9, 2020)

Great fun (watching someone else burn their money).


----------



## Crispy (Dec 9, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I am guessing that landing was not to plan.
> 
> Limited voice on the feed.
> 
> But an awesome test is perhaps not what I would have described it.


That was a 80-90% successful flight. Launch, flight, flip to falling, stable fall, flip to landing burn all successful.
The green flame towards the end is a symptom of the copper engine lining burning up. If that engine had behaved itself, they might have had 100%.


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 9, 2020)

Well, it reached the landing point in one piece.  Very briefly.


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2020)

Fantastic stuff!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 9, 2020)

Crispy said:


> That was a 80-90% successful flight. Launch, flight, flip to falling, stable fall, flip to landing burn all successful.
> The green flame towards the end is a symptom of the copper engine lining burning up. If that engine had behaved itself, they might have had 100%.


There was stuff on fire in the fuselage earlier, maybe a hose went?.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2020)

Great commentary from Scott Manley
Explains everything we saw.


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 10, 2020)

That ^^^ is an excellent commentary.


----------



## 20Bees (Dec 10, 2020)

Indeed, it’s a really interesting account, thanks for the link!
RUD = Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly... blowing up is so last century


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 10, 2020)

That is spectacular


----------



## weltweit (Dec 10, 2020)

I heard somewhere that this trial was with only partially filled tanks, the implication being it might have had trouble lifting off with full tanks?


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2020)

weltweit said:


> I heard somewhere that this trial was with only partially filled tanks, the implication being it might have had trouble lifting off with full tanks?


Correct. Seeing as this is the upper stage, it's not really designed for launch under gravity.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 15, 2020)

This is rather good.


----------



## Limejuice (Dec 15, 2020)

a_chap said:


> This is rather good.



I love the sharpness of the shock diamonds.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 17, 2020)

NROL 108 launch coming up in a couple of minutes.

Looks like a LEO surveillance platform of some flavour.

Just dropped into a hold.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 17, 2020)

NROL ?


----------



## Crispy (Dec 17, 2020)

weltweit said:


> NROL ?


Spy satellites


----------



## 2hats (Dec 17, 2020)

National Reconnaissance Office Launch.


----------



## 2hats (Dec 17, 2020)

Postponed for 24 hour recycle. Overpressure in the upper stage LO2 tanks.


----------



## weltweit (Dec 19, 2020)

SpaceX scrubs Falcon 9 launch to assess second stage issue – Spaceflight Now


> SpaceX scrubbed a Falcon 9 launch attempt Thursday to evaluate a “slightly high” pressure reading in the rocket’s upper stage liquid oxygen tank, and officials have rescheduled the company’s final mission of the year for Saturday morning.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2020)

SN9 rolling out (after it toppled over inside the High Bay, dinged its fins and had them replaced)



Including a large area of test heatshield tiles (not functional at these low altitudes, but will test for resilience under launch conditions etc)


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2020)

It's hard to judge the scale of this thing when it's surrounded by other gigantic buildings and machines. But here's a good comparison:


----------



## a_chap (Dec 22, 2020)

Excellent footage of the boost-back burn here:


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2021)

Another successful launch/landing 



> CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. — A SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket launched on a record 8th flight to send a new fleet of the company's Starlink internet satellites into orbit on Wednesday (Jan.20) and then nailed a landing at sea.
> 
> The Falcon 9 rocket lifted off from the historic Pad 39A here at NASA's Kennedy Space Center at 8:02 a.m. EDT (1202 GMT) carrying 60 new Starlink satellites for SpaceX's growing constellation in orbit. The launch came after two days of delay due to poor weather in the recovery zone and the need for extra pre-flight checks.
> 
> Approximately 9 minutes after liftoff, the Falcon 9's first stage returned to Earth, landing on one of SpaceX's drone ships in the Atlantic Ocean in a smooth touchdown. The massive ship, "Just Read the Instructions," is one of two in the company’s fleet of recovery vessels that catch falling boosters and return them to port.











						SpaceX rocket launches on record 8th flight carrying 60 Starlink satellites, nails landing
					

It's the most-flown Falcon 9 ever.




					www.space.com


----------



## a_chap (Jan 24, 2021)

Starship's internal plumbing.

A very clever video and a great explanation of the "header tanks".


----------



## Crispy (Jan 24, 2021)

There might be another starship flight tomorrow btw. I'll bump the thread if so


----------



## 2hats (Jan 24, 2021)

Another F9 went up this afternooon (Transporter-1 mission) deploying 143 satellites...








						SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket snags world record for most satellites launched at once
					

A SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket has successfully delivered 143 spacecraft to orbit, snagging a world record for most satellites launched in one go that’s likely to remain unchallenged indefinitely. Marking the second polar launch from the US East Coast in half a century and SpaceX’s second such launch...




					www.teslarati.com


----------



## weltweit (Jan 24, 2021)

How can they deploy so many small satellites into their own precise positions?


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 24, 2021)

weltweit said:


> How can they deploy so many small satellites into their own precise positions?


The satellites have their own small ion engines that have a small thrust but very long duration. Over time they work themselves into their own unique orbits.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 24, 2021)

weltweit said:


> How can they deploy so many small satellites into their own precise positions?


Incredibly accurate tweezers.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 25, 2021)

Crispy said:


> There might be another starship flight tomorrow btw. I'll bump the thread if so


Peparations are underway. Won't be for another couple of hours though.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 25, 2021)

Cancelled for today. Tomorrow and Wednesday still possible.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2021)

We're back on for today. No earlier than 15:00 UK time


----------



## Crispy (Jan 28, 2021)

Beautiful sunrise


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 28, 2021)

From the stream I'm watching: "They're arming the flight termination system, right now..."

Apparently that's the self-destruct set-up.

"In case it heads for Mexico."


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2021)

Love the way the rocket looks like something out of Tin Tin!


----------



## weltweit (Jan 28, 2021)

I wonder if they will test it taking off from standing on its own legs, as will be the case in use when taking off from somewhere where it has landed?


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2021)

Not flying today


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2021)

Still waiting on final permission from the FAA, but they are proceeding as if they have it. Pad is clear and the vehicle is alive. Who knows if we'll get a flight or just another dress rehearsal...

EDIT: No flight today; the Man says so.


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Jan 29, 2021)

I'm watching one of the YouTube live feeds (Nerdle Cam 4K) and SN10 is now out next to SN9 ☺


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2021)




----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2021)

Crispy said:


>



That really does look like the future!


----------



## a_chap (Jan 30, 2021)

Typical.

You wait ages for a starship then two turn up at once.


----------



## de_dog (Jan 30, 2021)

Screencapped this one from LabPadre


----------



## a_chap (Jan 31, 2021)

You have to admit, this looks pretty cool:




Taken from the current live-cam feed.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 31, 2021)

Have they launched any of them yet?

Also, I hear that SpaceX might have been put in the naughty corner by regulators for one of their tests:









						Elon Musk’s SpaceX violated its launch license in explosive Starship test, triggering an FAA probe
					

SpaceX’s next test Starship test launches are getting a close look from the FAA.




					www.theverge.com


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

WaPost confirms that FAA approval has been granted.
Village evacuation ordered, TFR issued, weather looks good.

Good chance of a Starship launch today! Window opens 14:00 UK time


----------



## MickiQ (Feb 2, 2021)

Crispy said:


> WaPost confirms that FAA approval has been granted.
> Village evacuation ordered, TFR issued, weather looks good.
> 
> Good chance of a Starship launch today! Window opens 14:00 UK time



Let's hope it doesn't knock SN10 over when it comes back to land


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

Fuelling is about to start. Could be as little as 35m till launch


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2021)

Cams here


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

Some fool had skipped the road closure and was hanging out in the exclusion zone. Currently driving back out after the Sherrif caught up with them.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 2, 2021)

Is there going to be a countdown or something?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Is there going to be a countdown or something?


If/when the official SpaceX channel goes live, we won't know when till it happens.
Approx 10m from now, based on previous engine tests


----------



## teuchter (Feb 2, 2021)

Can someone concisely outline the significance of this launch to me? I haven't really been paying attention to space stuff recently.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

SpaceX Stream



2m30s


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Can someone concisely outline the significance of this launch to me? I haven't really been paying attention to space stuff recently.


It will be the biggest rocket ever flown, fully reusable. Designed (seriously) for colonising Mars.
This is the second test flight of the upper stage. THe last test flight went smoothly right up to landing, which it just missed and went boom


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

3rd time lucky?


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Feb 2, 2021)

Ah crap 😡


----------



## teuchter (Feb 2, 2021)

Oops


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 2, 2021)

Perfect flight for 19.99 km...


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Feb 2, 2021)

Hopefully SN10 is ok.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 2, 2021)

Hmm, another success then ??


----------



## Duncan2 (Feb 2, 2021)

Did it really ever look as though that was going to work???


----------



## Callie (Feb 2, 2021)

Crispy said:


> It will be the biggest rocket ever flown, fully reusable.


I wish to dispute this bit ! Not very reusable


----------



## Duncan2 (Feb 2, 2021)

Might get a few coke cans out of the remnants.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

Callie said:


> I wish to dispute this bit ! Not very reusable


 yet!


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 2, 2021)

Looked like the engine re-start didn't work properly.


----------



## Duncan2 (Feb 2, 2021)

And no parachute.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 2, 2021)

Well they are certainly getting through StarShips at quite a rate. 

Hopefully with the two failing in similar situations they may have an idea what to rectify.


----------



## Duncan2 (Feb 2, 2021)

The positive to take away is that there were no people aboard.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 2, 2021)

Crispy said:


> It will be the biggest rocket ever flown, fully reusable. Designed (seriously) for colonising Mars.
> This is the second test flight of the upper stage. THe last test flight went smoothly right up to landing, which it just missed and went boom


If this is the upper stage - it will not take off by itself in real use, is that right? So have they designed an upper stage that can take off by itself, just for experimental purposes?


----------



## a_chap (Feb 2, 2021)

Clearly just the one engine re-lit and something fell off.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 2, 2021)

Another question - why are these things silver when previous rockets have always been white? Is it because we're in the future now?


----------



## Limejuice (Feb 2, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Well they are certainly getting through StarShips at quite a rate.
> 
> Hopefully with the two failing in similar situations they may have an idea what to rectify.


Yes, on both tests, it seemed that the sequence to return the ship to vertical and slow descent happened too late and not powerfully enough.

There were probably different mechanical problems between the flights, but the problem looked similar. 

They'll get the slide rulers out, and figure out a better way to stand the thing back up for landing.


----------



## WouldBe (Feb 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Another question - why are these things silver when previous rockets have always been white? Is it because we're in the future now?


Can't afford the paint.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> If this is the upper stage - it will not take off by itself in real use, is that right? So have they designed an upper stage that can take off by itself, just for experimental purposes?


That's right. The first stage is much more simple and they already have plenty of experience with flying and reusing first stages of the Falcon 9
Reusing the 2nd stage, which has completely novel aerodynamics, is a brand new challenge.
So they started Starship development with the 2nd stage, knowing that it would take longer to get working.
Also, engines aren't cheap. They only need 3 engines to test the 2nd stage. The 1st stage will need at least 8, and 28 in the final configuration. At liftoff, it will have twice the thrust of the Saturn V.
Best to iron out all the flight issues on a 3-engines-at-a-time test bed.


teuchter said:


> Another question - why are these things silver when previous rockets have always been white? Is it because we're in the future now?


The original idea was to use carbon fibre. They pressure tested a big CF tank. They even leased a factory and built a great big rotating lay-up tool for building whole tanks in one piece. But then they made an abrupt pivot to stainless steel. It's heavier, but it's much more robust. Needs less heat shielding, so the weight saved there makes up for the higher density. It also gets stronger when cooled to cryogenic temperatures. The same damage that destroyed the alumtinium framed shuttle Columbia would have been survived by Starship. But most importantnly steel is dirt cheap, and skilled welders are far more common than people familiar with building very large carbon fibre tanks. They can build these things for 1/10th the price of a CF equivalent, and much faster.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 2, 2021)

I was wondering if it was titanium or something. But just stainless steel....


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

Starship SN10 highly likely to fly today. 3rd time's the charm for the landing?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Starship SN10 highly likely to fly today. 3rd time's the charm for the landing?
> 
> View attachment 257112


Any guesstimate for launch o’clock?


----------



## a_chap (Mar 3, 2021)

They've made a shocking job wallpapering those wings.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

a_chap said:


> View attachment 257116
> 
> They've made a shocking job wallpapering those wings.


Always looks worse once the sun shines sideways


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

3rd time lucky I imagine some are thinking, hope no one at SpaceX thinks like that though.. 

If it crashes like the last two I will never fly in one, never I tell you!


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Any guesstimate for launch o’clock?


Permitted launch hours are 9am-6pm local time, which is 15:00-00:00 UK time.
Previous flights have been in the 2nd half of that window.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

Spies on the ground report they're aiming for 0954 local time, which is just 1h35m away!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Spies on the ground report they're aiming for 0954 local time, which is just 1h35m away!


Oooooooh


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I was wondering if it was titanium or something. But just stainless steel....


I was wondering if it was aluminium, apparently traditional aluminium isn't compatible with space flight, although I read some engineers are pioneering a treatment for it.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I was wondering if it was aluminium, apparently traditional aluminium isn't compatible with space flight, although I read some engineers are pioneering a treatment for it.


Most rockets are made of aluminium alloys of some kind. Stainless steel is very unusual.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Most rockets are made of aluminium alloys of some kind. Stainless steel is very unusual.


Oh, ok, I thought (for some reason) that aluminium was affected by cosmic radiation or something?


----------



## MickiQ (Mar 3, 2021)

a_chap said:


> View attachment 257116
> 
> They've made a shocking job wallpapering those wings.


Rate they're going through them, probably a waste of effort make them look too smart.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Oh, ok, I thought (for some reason) that aluminium was affected by cosmic radiation or something?


Not that I've heard of. The main hull and the exterior shielding on the ISS are aluminium.

EDIT: specifically 2219 aluminium alloy


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

RCS system just tested, so looking like the predicted timing is correct.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Not that I've heard of. The main hull and the exterior shielding on the ISS are aluminium.
> 
> EDIT: specifically 2219 aluminium alloy


Hi Crispy, it was this article:  Alloy could launch manned spacecraft made from aluminium | The Engineer The Engineer


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

Anyone have the video link for this flight?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Anyone have the video link for this flight?


NSF are streaming now


Official SpaceX will go live a few minutes before launch


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Waiting for the clouds to clear a bit?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Waiting for the clouds to clear a bit?


Maybe. Looks like it's almost gone on satellite view



			https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/national/satellite


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

Fuel tank farm recondenser is venting, which means we are potentially 30m away

EDIT: This is exactly dinner time in my house


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> .. EDIT: This is exactly dinner time in my house


Yes, mine too Grr


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2021)

Dinner is served here too...

ETA: Beer too


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Fuel tank farm recondenser is venting, which means we are potentially 30m away
> 
> EDIT: This is exactly dinner time in my house


No signs of frost or venting on the starship itself yet so I think you'll be OK.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Looks like there's people in the launchpad area, so presumably we're going to be waiting for a while.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 3, 2021)

Great site/app for keeping track of this stuff: Next Spaceflight


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

Back on the countdown now


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

I gave up waiting and ate, I had it on my mobile in case they suddenly launched but it didn't happen.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Back on the countdown now


Where are you getting a countdown?


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2021)

Planned for 20:14, I believe.

ETA: the NasaSpaceflight site is showing a countdown clock. 22 minutes from now.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Where are you getting a countdown?


No numbers, but the vehicle is venting now, which means fuelling is underway. ~20m left now


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Where are you getting a countdown?


On the NSF video one page back.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2021)

10 minutes now.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

It sure is venting now ..


----------



## Maggot (Mar 3, 2021)

Just before the Palace game. Good timing.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

SpaceX stream has appeared on Youtube so we're close


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)




----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

2m


----------



## cybershot (Mar 3, 2021)

that went well


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

Abort. Booooooooooo


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2021)

Abort at 0.1 seconds.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Bugger


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

Well, that was a bit of a shame ..


----------



## Callie (Mar 3, 2021)

Can you really abort if you have done a bit of a kaboom?


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2021)

They're going to see if they can recycle the launch. The window lasts until midnight.

Sigh.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

The video is saying it was aborted 0.1 seconds before clamp release and lift off.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Trying again in a couple of hours.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 3, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Trying again in a couple of hours.


Did they explain the cause of the abort?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Did they explain the cause of the abort?


Thrust was too high and tripped a (conservatively set) abort limit. They're going to raise the thrust limit, retank and try again. ~22:30 UK time


----------



## sleaterkinney (Mar 3, 2021)

All that wait and pfft.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

Refuelling underway


----------



## cybershot (Mar 3, 2021)

ETA for launch?


----------



## Raheem (Mar 3, 2021)

11 mins now


----------



## Raheem (Mar 3, 2021)

21 minutes now. Weird countdown...


----------



## cybershot (Mar 3, 2021)

Urgh, need to go bed, lol.


----------



## a_chap (Mar 3, 2021)

It definitely needs the drama of a proper countdown.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

SpaceX is live again. 1 minute


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

BEAUTY


----------



## a_chap (Mar 3, 2021)

Bloody hell!


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2021)

WOW!!!

Leaning.

On fire.

On the fucking ground.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

I think we can just about call that a success. Slightly wonky, mildly on fire, but it made it


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

That landing manoeuver never fails to amaze


----------



## teuchter (Mar 3, 2021)

Is it just balanced on a slightly crumpled base then?


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2021)

Oops!


----------



## teuchter (Mar 3, 2021)

Not any more


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

Ha!

That still counts as a landing


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 3, 2021)

That'll buff out.

Elon can recycle that baby.


----------



## 20Bees (Mar 3, 2021)

Nooooooo


----------



## teuchter (Mar 3, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Ha!
> 
> That still counts as a landing


Two landings


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Oooooops


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

Blame the temporary single-use landing legs.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 3, 2021)

Excellent. I got a landing _and_ a RUDE.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2021)

Takeoff - Good
Landing - Good 
Reusability - Needs a bit of work


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Reusability - Needs a bit of work


Nonsense! They turned it round and launched it agin in a matter of minutes!


----------



## TopCat (Mar 4, 2021)

Thunderbirds are blown.


----------



## NoXion (Mar 4, 2021)

The fact that it exploded _after_ landing this time is actually pretty concerning. Kind of like your car catching fire after turning the ignition off.


----------



## cybershot (Mar 4, 2021)

A falcon 9 going up part of starlink mission going up in less than 10 mins


----------



## TopCat (Mar 4, 2021)

It did look cool landing.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 4, 2021)

Then hot , very hot.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 4, 2021)

I missed the video last night, so it landed on fire and then what, exploded?


----------



## TopCat (Mar 4, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I missed the video last night, so it landed on fire and then what, exploded?


It went well, landed like it was Tracy Island then blew up after three mins on the ground.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2021)

Yeah, shonky one-use landing gear didn't deploy properly.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 4, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, shonky one-use landing gear didn't deploy properly.


It wasn’t leaning! It looked vertical.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 4, 2021)

It was leaning.
I guess no-one got the chance to do one of those leaning tower of Pisa photos where you pretend to hold it up with your finger.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 4, 2021)

I wonder what burnable material was burning?


----------



## TopCat (Mar 4, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I wonder what burnable material was burning?


Dollar bills


----------



## teuchter (Mar 4, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I wonder what burnable material was burning?


I'm no rocket scientist, but I'd take a stab at rocket fuel.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 4, 2021)

By the way, what's with the word 'nominal'? Does 'normal' not function in space?


----------



## Maggot (Mar 4, 2021)

Where can I see the money shot?


----------



## 2hats (Mar 4, 2021)

teuchter said:


> By the way, what's with the word 'nominal'? Does 'normal' not function in space?


Engineering-speak for 'within acceptable tolerances'.


Maggot said:


> Where can I see the money shot?


These ones..?



or this one..?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 4, 2021)

Maggot said:


> Where can I see the money shot?


Google “money shot”. Just make sure safe search is turned off, the explosion was quite violent so you don’t want the results filtered.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 4, 2021)

2hats said:


> Engineering-speak for 'within acceptable tolerances'.



It seems to be quite specific to space things. I haven't come across it in other engineering contexts.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2021)

Video from just outside the Starship construction site, so all the crowd noise is from the people who built it (and the buildings it was built in etc)


----------



## elbows (Mar 4, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, shonky one-use landing gear didn't deploy properly.



I've not been paying all that much attention to this but I was a bit annoyed that the landing gear was being blamed for what happened next. Because to my eyes it was blatantly on fire near its base some seconds before touchdown.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 4, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Video from just outside the Starship construction site, so all the crowd noise is from the people who built it (and the buildings it was built in etc)



That’s ace, but I wish we could hear their reactions when it went bang 

That angle also really shows how close to the ground it gets before the flip manoeuvre, so cool.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 4, 2021)

I wonder how many versions they will get through before they start getting 100% nominal operations?


----------



## NoXion (Mar 4, 2021)

teuchter said:


> It seems to be quite specific to space things. I haven't come across it in other engineering contexts.



Pretty sure that it's also used in military aviation. I suspect that in both cases it's used instead of "normal" is already used for something else, kind of like how they say "say again" instead of "repeat".


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2021)

To more easily distinguish it from abnormal maybe?


----------



## weltweit (Mar 4, 2021)

SpaceX is at the moment proving they can land in Earth's atmosphere and gravity. The Moon and Mars are different environments, the fins and rockets will have different effects, I don't imagine it will be just a case of adjusting some equations by a factor to be able to land on them. Does anyone have any ideas on this?


----------



## Ahlan (Mar 4, 2021)

teuchter said:


> It seems to be quite specific to space things. I haven't come across it in other engineering contexts.


It's obvious that the performance of such an object is not normal, yet when it's performing _as intended,_ then it's within the nominal (defined) specifications.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2021)

weltweit said:


> SpaceX is at the moment proving they can land in Earth's atmosphere and gravity. The Moon and Mars are different environments, the fins and rockets will have different effects, I don't imagine it will be just a case of adjusting some equations by a factor to be able to land on them. Does anyone have any ideas on this?


The moon will be much easier. No atmosphere to muck about with, so it's all simple thrusting.
Mars has just enough atmosphere to be annoying, but not enough to be useful. The current plan is to come in mostly belly _up_ so that the lift vector points towards the planet. This forces the trajectory to stay within the atmosphere instead of skipping straight out again. Once they're captured and heading for the ground, it'll be much the same as the Earth landing, just with a higher terminal velocity due to the lack of resistance. Same flip and burn to land.

The upper regions of Earth atmosphere have a similar density to Mars, so they will be able to get data on behaviour up there, but really it's going to be lots of computer modelling and then throw one at Mars as soon as the orbits line up. Possibly in 2024 for a 2025 encounter.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 4, 2021)

It will be a lonely short life for passengers to Mars at this rate.


----------



## a_chap (Mar 4, 2021)

I don't think it was the landing legs wot failed.

If you watch the landing closely you can clearly see SN10 bounces when it lands. So, a bit of a hard landing.


----------



## Signal 11 (Mar 5, 2021)

a_chap said:


> I don't think it was the landing legs wot failed.


It looks like only about half of them deployed properly. You can see them on Scott Manley's video here.


----------



## tim (Mar 5, 2021)

As many as it takes to bankrupt Musk.


----------



## Roseygirl (Mar 5, 2021)

I'm not an engineer or any kind or scientific kind of person so my input here is probly not needed but ive been following spacex stuff and kind of really wanting them to make it happen so the latest this month was disappointing for me.  probly more for them I know, but I'm really fascinated by space stuff and just want someone to be able to do something spectacular that means it can happen regularly. I don't know if I'm right or not but I think before all this it was just governments throwing money at space exploration which I dunno if I agree with cos I think we have enough problems right here right now, but there really is something inside me that wants spacex and other companies that don't use governmental money to just work. Ann I delusional? Do spacex and so on use government money? I really don't know much about this at all, just what I read online so please don't slate me for not knowing I really am interested


----------



## Crispy (Mar 5, 2021)

Spacex were going to put themselves out of business after failing to launch their first little rocket, falcon 1, three times in a row. With the last cash on hand (and this was long before musk became the richest man on earth) they got one more rocket built using up all the spare parts. It worked but they barely had any paying customers to move the company forward. But it was enough to convince NASA that they were serious and so they got a contract to develop cargo supply services to the space station, on the then as yet unbuilt falcon 9.

NASA literally saved spacex from bankruptcy and have been one of their best customers and partners.

Now, with Starlink coming on line, providing high speed internet to the middle of nowhere anywhere, spacex could end up having an income larger than NASA's entire budget. They'll still happily work together, but spacex don't need their money any more.

And don't forget, the company was founded with the explicit purpose of colonising mars. That ludicrous dream is the ultimate motivator for their engineers


----------



## weltweit (Mar 5, 2021)

Crispy said:


> ..
> Now, with Starlink coming on line, providing high speed internet to the middle of nowhere anywhere, spacex could end up having an income larger than NASA's entire budget. They'll still happily work together, but spacex don't need their money any more.
> ..


Anyone seen any Starlink broadband ads? 
I am wondering how much it will cost and what sort of device one will need to connect to it?


----------



## 2hats (Mar 5, 2021)

$499 for the hardware and $99/month for the connectivity.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 5, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Anyone seen any Starlink broadband ads?
> I am wondering how much it will cost and what sort of device one will need to connect to it?


£440 for the dish, which is about 60cm diameter. Service is £85/month. This will fall as they scale, but currently their competition (geostationary satellites) has similar prices  but far far far worse service. ie if you can get get wired broadband, it's not for you.

Pic of dish and router box, power cable and powered data cable. This is literally all you need.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 5, 2021)

Hopefully the monthly price will come down a lot or I don't see it getting millions online.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 5, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Hopefully the monthly price will come down a lot or I don't see it getting millions online.


It will. Right now they're having to offset the cost of launching all the satellites and the development of the dish hardware (it's a very sophisticated phased array of the kind usually found in military aircraft radar) so they're charging what the market will bear. Once they've poached all the existing customers of eg Hughes and Viasat, they'll a) have a decent income and b) be forced to drop the price to expand the customer base.

Starship actually helps in this regard. If it's as cheap as planned, it will make the satellites even cheaper to launch.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 5, 2021)

Crispy said:


> It will. Right now they're having to offset the cost of launching all the satellites and the development of the dish hardware (it's a very sophisticated phased array of the kind usually found in military aircraft radar) so they're charging what the market will bear. Once they've poached all the existing customers of eg Hughes and Viasat, they'll a) have a decent income and b) be forced to drop the price to expand the customer base.
> 
> Starship actually helps in this regard. If it's as cheap as planned, it will make the satellites even cheaper to launch.


Are there still concerns from astronomers about the impact all these starlink satellites are having on the sky, or have they solved that problem?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 5, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Are there still concerns from astronomers about the impact all these starlink satellites are having on the sky, or have they solved that problem?


Better than it was; they're darker now. Still not great though.
In theory it's completely fixable in software on the telescope.

A second argument is that Starship will be so cheap, earth-based observatories will become obsolete.
I don't entirely agree. Starship is big, but it's not big enough to launch something like the Extremely Large Telescope in one go.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 5, 2021)

Off Topic:

It's got a terrible name but the ELT is a stependous machine.
The new official website is very good and goes into technical detail

eg this page on the main mirror M1 Mirror | ELT | ESO

It's absolutely massive


----------



## NoXion (Mar 5, 2021)

I've been waiting on the James Webb Space Telescope for far too long now.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 5, 2021)

NoXion said:


> I've been waiting on the James Webb Space Telescope for far too long now.


Launches in October (for real this time)


----------



## Crispy (Mar 8, 2021)

Guess who's back?



SN11 is already at the launch site. Last of this model. Parts for 12,13,14 have been scrapped in favour of the "improved design" SN15 which just needs its nose cone stacked on top.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 9, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Guess who's back?
> 
> View attachment 257938


With the people in the foreground it really shows the scale of the thing.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 9, 2021)

Yep. A 15-storey building. About the size of one of the towers of Tower Bridge.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 9, 2021)

I like that in spite of the incredible tech inside it looks like it was hammered together out of old metal sheet in someones shed.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 9, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I like that in spite of the incredible tech inside it looks like it was hammered together out of old metal sheet in someones shed.


It does, looks like it is perhaps riveted together, really uneven and shoddy .. not at all "starship like"


----------



## paul mckenna (Mar 13, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Guess who's back?
> 
> View attachment 257938
> 
> ...



What's gone into the "improved design" of SN15?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 13, 2021)

paul mckenna said:


> What's gone into the "improved design" of SN15?


Nobody's quite sure. It's only been glimpsed from outside the high bay. We only have musk tweets to go on.
It looks the same from the outside but apparently is much less cobbled together on the inside.


----------



## paul mckenna (Mar 14, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Nobody's quite sure. It's only been glimpsed from outside the high bay. We only have musk tweets to go on.
> It looks the same from the outside but apparently is much less cobbled together on the inside.



I suppose given the industry can't really expect the same kind of product leaks as other companies. Those few people hanging onto their Boca Chica houses must be making some fair money housing the spy operations


----------



## 2hats (Mar 14, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Are there still concerns from astronomers about the impact all these starlink satellites are having on the sky, or have they solved that problem?


Still interfering in both the optical and radio. Imaged in orbit one can see how orientation configurations modify apparent magnitude.





Starlink 20 cluster imaged 3 days post deploy from the UK this morning (original video here):
View attachment sl20t.mp4
Starlink 21 launched this morning, seen from up the US east coast:


----------



## HAL9000 (Mar 15, 2021)

*Amateur Radio Fans Decoded SpaceX's Telemetry & Engineering Video*

short clip here



Scott Manley talks about it on his youtube channel


----------



## Crispy (Mar 22, 2021)

SN11 has had a full-length static fire, with no "honk" on shutdown and no depressurisation after.
All signs point to success. Flight could be as early as tomorrow


----------



## Crispy (Mar 26, 2021)

All the stars are aligned for another Starship test flight today. It will be a static fire first though, so if they see anything they don't like then the flight will be delayed probably till after the weekend.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 26, 2021)

That was quick!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 26, 2021)

Any potential times yet?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 26, 2021)

No idea yet. The village evacuation order has just been given though.
We are on for a launch attempt today!
(no earlier than 5pm UK time)


----------



## weltweit (Mar 26, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Guess who's back?
> 
> View attachment 257938


What is behind the black sunroof?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 26, 2021)

weltweit said:


> What is behind the black sunroof?


That's a big patch of heat shield tiles. It doesn't fly high or fast enough to need them, but they're seeing how well they cope with the noise and wind of launch and landing.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 26, 2021)

Left it a bit untidy with all those studs remaining


----------



## NoXion (Mar 26, 2021)

More proof that hexagons are the bestagons.


----------



## Limejuice (Mar 26, 2021)

Scrubbed for today. Weather looked pretty poor.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 27, 2021)

Crispy said:


> That's a big patch of heat shield tiles. It doesn't fly high or fast enough to need them, but they're seeing how well they cope with the noise and wind of launch and landing.



Is that cladding under the tiles?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 27, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Is that cladding under the tiles?


Some sort of mineral fibre felt, yeah


----------



## TopCat (Mar 27, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Some sort of mineral fibre felt, yeah


Hope it’s mineral felt rather than a cheaper combustible alternative.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 28, 2021)

Crispy - I am intrigued about the heat shield. Is the planned operation of the starship not to have to re-enter earth's atmosphere? If it will have to re-enter it will surely need a heat shield or not?


----------



## teuchter (Mar 28, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Crispy - I am intrigued about the heat shield. Is the planned operation of the starship not to have to re-enter earth's atmosphere? If it will have to re-enter it will surely need a heat shield or not?


Not on the test flight.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 30, 2021)

Looks like they are trying again today then?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 30, 2021)

Aiming for 2pm UK time, apparently.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 30, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Aiming for 2pm UK time, apparently.


Not with the weather they currently seem to have, can’t see a thing!


----------



## Crispy (Mar 30, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Not with the weather they currently seem to have, can’t see a thing!


Visibility is improving. They might not even need a perfect view...

Official stream goes live in 10m


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Mar 30, 2021)

I bet they land it perfectly and we won't be able to see it


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 30, 2021)

Dead Cat Bounce said:


> I bet they land it perfectly and we won't be able to see it


Good day to to hide any problems 

“Yeah mate, landed it no bother. What fireball? Didn’t see a thing, honest”


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 30, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Official stream goes live in 10m



Or not


----------



## Crispy (Mar 30, 2021)

They're going for it


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 30, 2021)

Ooooh, here we go, 3 mins.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 30, 2021)

They might be good with rockets but their livestream tech is shite


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 30, 2021)

It’s gone bang again?


----------



## teuchter (Mar 30, 2021)

That seems not to have been entirely successful.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 30, 2021)

oops again!
a bit worrying that it's still crashing on the 4th try


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Mar 30, 2021)

Watching at work with no sound so did it go boom? I saw a few bits of debris fly past but no explosion.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 30, 2021)

It definitely went boom. It seems like it might have happened before it reached the ground?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> It definitely went boom. It seems like it might have happened before it reached the ground?


They lost the feed just as the engines were reigniting so that seems possible.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 30, 2021)

I'm surprised they launched in fog, if the purpose of test flights is to watch very closely what does or doesn't go wrong. But maybe the visual record is not where the useful info comes from.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 30, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They might be good with rockets but their livestream tech is shite


At the moment they don't seem so excellent with rockets either!


----------



## Crispy (Mar 30, 2021)

It had trouble getting all the engines lit properly during the landing flip again. It was heading so far off course, the auto destruct triggered and blew it up in mid air.

SN15 up to bat next, which is apparently full of small design improvements.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 30, 2021)

Crispy said:


> It had trouble getting all the engines lit properly during the landing flip again. It was heading so far off course, the auto destruct triggered and blew it up in mid air.


They are going to have to comment the auto destruct out of the code before I will fly in one! 



Crispy said:


> SN15 up to bat next, which is apparently full of small design improvements.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 31, 2021)

Think they're gonna need a bigger dustpan


----------



## NoXion (Apr 5, 2021)

Tweetus Deletus


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2021)

Starlink launch in 10 minutes or so.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 7, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Starlink launch in 10 minutes or so.



Those booster recovery landings never get any less impressive. Mind boggling stuff.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2021)

We don't usually get the onboard view all the way to the deck


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 7, 2021)

Crispy said:


> We don't usually get the onboard view all the way to the deck


It's just how almost casual it seems now, after the explosions and near misses when they were developing them. So impressive.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 16, 2021)

NASA selects SpaceX as its sole provider for a lunar lander
					

"We looked at what’s the best value to the government."




					arstechnica.com
				




There were three competitors for the contract, one was Blue Origin + a bunch of familiar names (Lockheed, Northrup Grumman etc) and the other was another consortium of less well known aerospace contractors. But SpaceX got the job. Their bid was far cheaper and their proposed spacecraft is actually flying. Not far, mind you, but infinitely futher than the competitors. If a NASA astronaut lands on the moon in the future, they'll be stepping out of one of these:


----------



## a_chap (Apr 16, 2021)

A long way to go still (no pun intended) before SpaceX manage to land anything on the moon though. So I wouldn't bet the house on the next astronaut stepping onto the lunar surface from a SpaceX rocket.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 16, 2021)

a_chap said:


> A long way to go still (no pun intended) before SpaceX manage to land anything on the moon though. So I wouldn't bet the house on the next astronaut stepping onto the lunar surface from a SpaceX rocket.


I did say "if"


----------



## paul mckenna (Apr 22, 2021)

Crispy said:


> NASA selects SpaceX as its sole provider for a lunar lander
> 
> 
> "We looked at what’s the best value to the government."
> ...


Good job gravity isn't much. Looks a big drop from the top


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Apr 30, 2021)

Possible launch of SN15 today , live stream :


----------



## Crispy (Apr 30, 2021)

Weather looks a bit iffy, but then they launched in 10m visibility fog last time so who knows!


----------



## weltweit (Apr 30, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Weather looks a bit iffy, but then they launched in 10m visibility fog last time so who knows!


Do you know what technology their ground and landing target sensors are?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 30, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Do you know what technology their ground and landing target sensors are?


Combined GPS and radar.
Probably Differential GPS - Wikipedia for landing. They'll need that sort of accuracy if they're going to succesfully catch the booster with a giant robot arm on the launch tower. No I'm not making that up.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 30, 2021)

Are there significant changes to the design of this one?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Are there significant changes to the design of this one?


Apparently so. They scrapped SN12,13,14 in favour of 15, which has "dozens" "hundreds" of fixes and improvements over the previous version.
Same overall shape, just detailed and built better.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 30, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Apparently so. They scrapped SN12,13,14 in favour of 15, which has "dozens" of fixes and improvements over the previous version.
> Same overall shape, just detailed and built better.


I just clicked on the live feed for a few seconds and they were talking about nozzle optimisation.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I just clicked on the live feed for a few seconds and they were talking about nozzle optimisation.


The Raptor engine is in continuous improvement (visibly so, from photos), but I don't think the nozzle has changed at all recently.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 30, 2021)

Any hints of launch time yet?


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Apr 30, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Any hints of launch time yet?



Sounds like it's off as they've cancelled the road closures.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 30, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Combined GPS and radar.
> Probably Differential GPS - Wikipedia for landing. They'll need that sort of accuracy if they're going to succesfully catch the booster with a giant robot arm on the launch tower. No I'm not making that up.


Interesting. Will they be able to use GPS on the Moon or on Mars?


----------



## NoXion (May 1, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Interesting. Will they be able to use GPS on the Moon or on Mars?



Don't think they're pointed in that direction. Also the relativistic corrections would be wrong because of the different planetary mass.


----------



## Crispy (May 1, 2021)

weltweit said:


> Interesting. Will they be able to use GPS on the Moon or on Mars?


Nope. Not until those bodies have their own orbiting GPS (or rather, LunarPS and AreoPS).

Radar and radio beacons depolyed by earlier landings will be enough for early missions.


----------



## weltweit (May 1, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Nope. Not until those bodies have their own orbiting GPS (or rather, LunarPS and AreoPS).
> 
> Radar and radio beacons depolyed by earlier landings will be enough for early missions.


I wonder where the devices are positioned on the starship? 
They have to work when it is flat and also when pointing up but coming down.


----------



## urbanspaceman (May 2, 2021)

NASA Explores Upper Limits of Global Navigation Systems for Artemis
					

NASA navigation engineers from the Space Communications and Navigation (SCaN) program are developing a navigation architecture that will provide accurate and robust Position, Navigation, and Timing (PNT) services for the Artemis missions. Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS) signals will be...




					www.nasa.gov
				






			https://aerospaceamerica.aiaa.org/features/cosmic-gps/
		


Apparently some work has been done on picking up "spillover" GPS beams as far out as the moon. Accuracies of 200-300m are achievable, which can be improved by using multiple GNSS systems (GLOSNASS, Galileo, Baidu) or putting a handful of augmentation/authentication microsats in Lunar orbit.


----------



## existentialist (May 3, 2021)

weltweit said:


> I wonder where the devices are positioned on the starship?
> They have to work when it is flat and also when pointing up but coming down.


Assuming that they have already thought of this, I imagine that there are probably antennas (at least) to cover multiple orientations.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 4, 2021)

This doesn't look great - a rocket tumbling in orbit and expected to have an uncontrolled reentry.  Hopefully whatever bits survive reentry will land in the sea.









						‘Out-of-control’ Chinese rocket falling to Earth could partially survive re-entry
					

Long March 5B is doing 27,600km/h in failing orbit, with eventual crash site unknown, after launching space station hub




					www.theguardian.com
				




Interesting tracking site linked from the article though









						CZ-5B / 48275 / 2021-035B
					

Satellite tracking data and orbit information for  CZ-5B / 48275 / 2021-035B



					orbit.ing-now.com


----------



## Crispy (May 4, 2021)

Could be a big SpaceX day today, with two launches potentially within hours of each other.
At 20:01 UK time, there's another Starlink Falcon 9 launch - this being the first time a booster has flown 9 times.
At some point as early as 17:00 UK time (but probably later) it looks like Starship SN15 will take its first flight. Maybe they can land it this time?


----------



## Crispy (May 4, 2021)

It's just the starlink launch today. Starship will have to wait (for tomorrow maybe?)


----------



## Jay Park (May 4, 2021)

farmerbarleymow said:


> This doesn't look great - a rocket tumbling in orbit and expected to have an uncontrolled reentry.  Hopefully whatever bits survive reentry will land in the sea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



22 tons of it, keep your head up for christ sake


----------



## weltweit (May 4, 2021)

And I hear there are going to be a few more of these massive Chinese rockets falling back down because this one was just for the first stage of their space station.


----------



## Jay Park (May 4, 2021)

weltweit said:


> And I hear there are going to be a few more of these massive Chinese rockets falling back down because this one was just for the first stage of their space station.



heads up people, we all_ at least _managed to trudge through S1 of Breaking Wind (Bad)


----------



## weltweit (May 4, 2021)




----------



## editor (May 4, 2021)

Splendid stuff. That Tony Carissmo commentator  is a bit annoying even if he knows his onions.


----------



## 2hats (May 4, 2021)

Lovely orbit 2 pass seen in small binoculars from central London a few minutes ago. Upper stage very bright (mag +1), newly deployed stack running a fraction of a degree ahead all in a line apparently angled to the velocity vector (could make out 'structure'). Early in the pass they appear to be embedded in a diffuse cloud which might have been recently vented fuel, exhaust or sublimated ice particles. Spaced further apart in a quadrilateral encompassing all these were the rods, clearly tumbling (flashing).

Others' photos...


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2021)

Here we go again...



Could still be cancelled for weather


----------



## Callie (May 5, 2021)

Crispy said:


> Here we go again...
> 
> 
> 
> Could still be cancelled for weather



I hope it's the camera that wonky


----------



## editor (May 5, 2021)

It's looking like a no.


----------



## Signal 11 (May 5, 2021)

editor said:


> It's looking like a no.



Looking more hopeful now. On stream they're saying maybe another 30-60 minutes.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2021)

Fuelling underway. 20-25m from launch according to teh NSF stream


----------



## cybershot (May 5, 2021)

Looking good to go. Is there an official stream?


----------



## Ahlan (May 5, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Looking good to go. Is there an official stream?


----------



## cybershot (May 5, 2021)

Ahlan said:


>




that’s not official spaceX stream


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2021)

Official stream goes live in ~8m


----------



## Ahlan (May 5, 2021)

cybershot said:


> that’s not official spaceX stream


sorry.
it's much more informative than the official channel though.  but if you're really into the countdown then yeah ^


----------



## cybershot (May 5, 2021)

Ahlan said:


> sorry.
> it's much more informative than the official channel though.  but if you're really into the countdown then yeah ^



oh the Spaceflight guys Are awesome andvery informative. It’sjust the official video usually has much better angles, closer and higher quality.


----------



## cybershot (May 5, 2021)

Small fire again. Is it gonna blow! Or will it survive!!! How awesome though.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2021)

About time  Fingers crossed the fire's not serious. Given the landing wasn't such a crunch it should be ok


----------



## Ahlan (May 6, 2021)

Ahlan said:


>



post analysis still ongoing. these guys really love it


----------



## weltweit (May 6, 2021)

So, a result! still a bit of a fire, but no big explosion at least. 

I didn't see any SpaceX commentators saying what they thought, presumably they are chuffed?


----------



## paul mckenna (May 7, 2021)

Hello, I'm Scott Manley


----------



## Crispy (May 7, 2021)

Fly safe


----------



## Yossarian (Oct 26, 2021)

Apparently there's been so much leaked piss sloshing around SpaceX's capsules that they're worried it could have compromised the spacecraft, especially the one that carried space tourists last month.

_As for the Dragon capsule in orbit, less urine pooled beneath the floor panels than the one that carried a billionaire and three others on a three-day flight, Gerstenmaier said. That’s because the NASA-led crew only spent a day living in it before arriving at the space station._









						SpaceX needs to tame toilet trouble before weekend launch
					

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) — SpaceX is taming some toilet troubles in its Dragon capsules before launching four more astronauts.  The company and NASA want to make sure any toilet leaks won’t compromise the capsule launching early Sunday from Kennedy Space Center or another one that’s been parked...




					apnews.com


----------



## Limejuice (Oct 27, 2021)

Elon is taking the piss...

I mean, leaking.


----------



## a_chap (Oct 27, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> SpaceX needs to tame toilet trouble before weekend launch
> 
> 
> CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (AP) — SpaceX is taming some toilet troubles in its Dragon capsules before launching four more astronauts.  The company and NASA want to make sure any toilet leaks won’t compromise the capsule launching early Sunday from Kennedy Space Center or another one that’s been parked...
> ...



"the company’s newest capsule, named Endurance by its U.S.-German crew."


Presumably now re-named Urinendurance...


----------



## WouldBe (Oct 27, 2021)

Limejuice said:


> Elon is taking the piss...
> 
> I mean, leaking.


Just wait until there's a hiccup during launch and he'll be shitting himself instead.


----------



## Epona (Oct 27, 2021)

WouldBe said:


> Just wait until there's a hiccup during launch and he'll be shitting himself instead.



I hope the engineers have taken account of that sloshing around under the floor panels


----------



## WouldBe (Oct 27, 2021)

Epona said:


> I hope the engineers have taken account of that sloshing around under the floor panels


It would have to be very liquid to get under the floor panels. It would end up floating around in the capsule with them.


----------



## StoneRoad (Oct 27, 2021)

WouldBe said:


> It would have to be very liquid to get under the floor panels. It would end up floating around in the capsule with them.


depends where the leak is, surely ...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 28, 2021)

Why didn’t they go before they went?


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 28, 2021)

The Inspiration 4 mission was up there for 2-3 days, not everyone's bladder is as weak as mine but that's pushing it for anyone to hold it that long


----------



## WouldBe (Oct 28, 2021)

StoneRoad said:


> depends where the leak is, surely ...


Usually from the arsehole.


----------



## HAL9000 (Feb 3, 2022)

> The Falcon 9 rocket has now launched a total of 139 times. Of those, one mission failed, the launch of an International Space Station supply mission for NASA, in June 2015. Not included in this launch tally is the pre-flight failure of a Falcon 9 rocket and its Amos-6 satellite during a static fire test in September 2016.
> 
> 
> Since the year 2020, the Falcon 9 has been the most experienced, active rocket in the United States, when it surpassed the Atlas V rocket in total launches. Globally, the still-flying Russian Soyuz and Proton rockets have more experience than the Falcon 9 fleet. The Soyuz, of course, remains the king of all rockets. It has more than 1,900 launches across about a dozen variants of the booster dating back to 1957, with more than 100 failures.
> ...











						The Falcon 9 may now be the safest rocket ever launched
					

The Falcon 9 also recently surpassed the space shuttle in total flights.




					arstechnica.com


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Feb 4, 2022)

Can anyone show me a realistic video of this supposed rocket?


----------



## NoXion (Feb 4, 2022)

HAL9000 said:


> The Falcon 9 may now be the safest rocket ever launched
> 
> 
> The Falcon 9 also recently surpassed the space shuttle in total flights.
> ...



I don't think the comparison being made is a fair one. The Space Shuttle was manned for (almost?) every one of its launches, whereas most Falcon 9 launches have been unmanned. The Falcon 9 hasn't really proved itself yet as a manned launch vehicle.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I don't think the comparison being made is a fair one. The Space Shuttle was manned for (almost?) every one of its launches, whereas most Falcon 9 launches have been unmanned. The Falcon 9 hasn't really proved itself yet as a manned launch vehicle.


"Most reliable" would be a better way to put it.
Shuttle was always manned, but it was also very flawed and inherently more dangerous than the capsules that came before and after it.


----------



## HAL9000 (Feb 4, 2022)

For those who are interested, this article written in 1980 explains in detail why the shuttle was a very bad idea  (its very long)






						"5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... Goodbye, Columbia" by Gregg Easterbrook
					

The Washington Monthly:



					www.iasa-intl.com
				




Shuttle only had the ejection seats fitted for the early flights, I believe the ejector seats were removed for later flights (I suspect its not very sporting if the pilots can eject and the passengers are stuck inside)



> During blast-off, unlike those capsules and modules with escape rockets to pull the pilots free in case of trouble, there is no way out of the shuttle. Columbia has ejection seats like a jet fighter, but they're useless during take-off.     Punching out at several thousand m.p.h. doesn't work. If the slab of  rushing air doesn't kill you, the engine exhaust flames will.





> But you're in luck--the launch goes fine. Once you get into  space, you check to see if any tiles are damaged. If enough are, you have a choice between Plan A and Plan B. Plan A is hope they can get  a rescue shuttle up in time. Plan B is burn up coming back.



The fact space x has managed 112 launches, plus it has a reasonable escape system, suggests its a good rocket

Soyuz escape system has saved astronauts lives, so we will have to wait and see if the dragon escape system is needed in future.   The escape system was tested, but not with astronauts on a failing rocket.

The other item is the rate of space x launches, it will be interesting to see how reliable the falcon 9 is after 200 launches, if starship doesn't kill off falcon 9, what will its reliability be like after 400 launches?


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## 2hats (Feb 9, 2022)

A geomagnetic storm has b0rked most of the Starlink satellites from the most recent launch. Consequent high atmospheric drag saw them drop into safe-mode on the initial deploy orbit and they won't now be recovered from that so will shortly re-enter:


> FEBRUARY 8, 2022
> GEOMAGNETIC STORM AND RECENTLY DEPLOYED STARLINK SATELLITES
> On Thursday, February 3 at 1:13 p.m. EST, Falcon 9 launched 49 Starlink satellites to low Earth orbit from Launch Complex 39A (LC-39A) at Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Falcon 9’s second stage deployed the satellites into their intended orbit, with a perigee of approximately 210 kilometers above Earth, and each satellite achieved controlled flight.
> 
> ...


Source.








						SpaceX says a geomagnetic storm just doomed 40 Starlink internet satellites
					

The satellites launched on Feb. 3, only to be hit by the storm a day later.




					www.space.com
				




Some have already re-entered, quite spectacularly - here over Puerto Rico yesterday:


Might just be worth keeping an eye out for any over the UK; there is potentially a good candidate tomorrow evening and the latest UKV run/UKMO forecast look fairly promising.
 

In separate news, the F9 upper stage that placed the NASA DSCOVR (Deep Space Climate Observatory) into a libration point orbit at Sun-Earth L1 (this is the exact opposite, sunward, side of Earth from the JWST), will impact the farside of the Moon on 4th March as it descends from a 688,000km apogee (it is just passing through perigee for the last time at around 45,000km). The ~4 tonne stage will hit the Moon at around 2.5 km/s.








						Prepare For Impact! Here’s How You Can See SpaceX’s Rogue Rocket On Its Way To Smashing Into The Moon
					

Space junk from Elon Musk's SpaceX is set to crash into the Moon. Those with telescopes will be able to glimpse it for themselves.




					www.forbes.com


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## Maggot (Feb 9, 2022)

> The deorbiting satellites pose zero collision risk with other satellites and by design demise upon atmospheric reentry—meaning no orbital debris is created and no satellite parts hit the ground. This unique situation demonstrates the great lengths the Starlink team has gone to ensure the system is on the leading edge of on-orbit debris mitigation.


So they burn up before reaching earth?


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## Crispy (Feb 9, 2022)

Maggot said:


> So they burn up before reaching earth?


Yep, totally vaporised. Compared to the tons of space dust/rocks that burn up in the atmosphere every day it's completely insignificant.


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## 2hats (Feb 9, 2022)

Crispy said:


> Yep, totally vaporised.


Well, perhaps not quite entirely - especially judging from the PR video. Pretty much every re-entry event results in material reaching the surface. Of course, whether anyone notices (or is anywhere nearby) is another matter.


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## teuchter (Feb 10, 2022)

I imagine there's a bunch of people somewhere who spent months of their lives meticulously assembling each of those satellites. All vaporised in a matter of seconds.


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## Crispy (Feb 10, 2022)

Considering this is just 40 out of 1000 already on orbit (and 10x that still to come) I don't think anyone's losing any sleep.


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## 2hats (Feb 11, 2022)

Starlink-1668 (from a different launch in Oct 2020) re-entered a few hours ago over the Iberian Peninsula. One orbit earlier and it would have been pretty spectacular over the UK.

Sightings from across Spain:








						Una estela de fuego cruza el cielo de la Región y sorprende a los murcianos
					

Por ahora no se conoce con precisión si se trata de un cuerpo celeste o de un satélite terrestre




					www.laverdad.es


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## 2hats (Feb 13, 2022)

2hats said:


> In separate news, the F9 upper stage that placed the NASA DSCOVR (Deep Space Climate Observatory) into a libration point orbit at Sun-Earth L1 (this is the exact opposite, sunward, side of Earth from the JWST), will impact the farside of the Moon on 4th March as it descends from a 688,000km apogee (it is just passing through perigee for the last time at around 45,000km). The ~4 tonne stage will hit the Moon at around 2.5 km/s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As a good illustration of how hard it is to methodically keep track of all objects much beyond geosynchronous orbit, from lunar out to L1/2 transfer orbits (though also to a degree an indication that no one, at least in the public domain, is inclined to bother) - since they are variously metastable/unstable and tend to be increasingly so with increasing apogee...

It now looks like that object is the Chang'e 5 T1 Long March 3C/E upper stage (originally launched October 2014).








						Astronomers now say the rocket about to strike the Moon is not a Falcon 9
					

It's probable that the impact object comes from a Chinese rocket launched in 2014.




					arstechnica.com


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## Limejuice (Apr 27, 2022)

Good morning, rocketeers.

There's a SpaceX launch today (Wednesday 27 April) at 08:52 BST 

Here's a link:


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## HAL9000 (May 14, 2022)

I've not been listening to words from Mr Musk, I watched a bit of Musk's recent interview relating to starship.    Confirmed my view, he's bonkers.


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## urbanspaceman (May 15, 2022)

How feasible is Elon Musk's idea to establish a colony on Mars in the 2020s?
					

Answer (1 of 163): Not feasible in the slightest.  Colonisation is currently a ridiculously unachievable idea.  Assuming we can even get there; people will simply not want to live in habitats where they spend all their time recycling their own waste, dealing with Asperger personality specialists ...




					www.quora.com
				




There's a thread on Quora that discusses this subject, including a contribution from me.

But just to cite three points, of the many, many concerns about colonising Mars:

1) Gravity. Mars is 38% of Earth-normal gravity. Living in zero-G is terribly unhealthy, but there is no data about the health implications of living in low gravity. Sending hundreds of thousands of people off to Mars depends on things just happily working out OK

2) Who would go ? When people emigrated to North America in the 1700s, life was no worse, and in some ways (more land) better, with the same technology, and same jobs. Living on Mars, would be grim: like being sealed in a nuclear submarine. Very restricted vegetarian diet, no open spaces, no greenery, none of the diversions or variety of human civilisation on Earth. I wouldn't mind a gap year on Mars, but living there indefinitely would make a prison sentence on Earth seem agreeable by comparison.

3) Governance. It seems to me that politics is going to be a showstopper. How is Mars run, accounting for the fact that every person who puts their mind to it will be able to commit mass casualty events through sabotage, or just letting the external environment inside ? To guard against these risks, a police state with extreme surveillance powers will be needed.


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## Storm Fox (May 15, 2022)

urbanspaceman said:


> *3) Governance. It seems to me that politics is going to be a showstopper. How is Mars run, accounting for the fact that every person who puts their mind to it will be able to commit mass casualty events through sabotage, or just letting the external environment inside ? To guard against these risks, a police state with extreme surveillance powers will be needed.*


That's easy. Musk will be the Imperator Imperator meaning as Elon Musk changes Twitter bio to "Imperator of Mars" and it will be self governing and people signing up to starlink must recognise Mars as having "no Earth-based government has authority or sovereignty over Martian activities."
SpaceX Starlink: User terms of service declare Mars as ‘free planet’ .

How much of this is serious in Musk's mind, and how much he is having a joke isn't clear.


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## HAL9000 (May 15, 2022)

urbanspaceman said:


> How feasible is Elon Musk's idea to establish a colony on Mars in the 2020s?
> 
> 
> Answer (1 of 163): Not feasible in the slightest.  Colonisation is currently a ridiculously unachievable idea.  Assuming we can even get there; people will simply not want to live in habitats where they spend all their time recycling their own waste, dealing with Asperger personality specialists ...
> ...



There was an experiment where volunteers spent  520 days in warehouse near Moscow, to simulate a trip to mars,









						Future Mars Astronauts May Be Sleepy, Bored and Crabby
					

Future astronauts going to Mars could experience sleep problems, lethargy, and decreased cognitive performance over the course of a long mission.




					www.wired.com
				






> Future astronauts going to Mars could have trouble sleeping, become lethargic, and have problems with mental tasks over the course of a long mission.



interview with one of the volunteers









						BBC World Service - Witness History, Mars-500 isolation experiment
					

Why six men were locked inside a spacecraft on earth for 520 days




					www.bbc.co.uk
				




to my mind it would be better to build self sustaining cities in deserts where people would want to live (i.e. recycle nearly all the water and waste, get all the energy from the sun, rather than something like Dubai)


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## HAL9000 (Jun 11, 2022)




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## 2hats (Jun 28, 2022)

2hats said:


> It now looks like that object is the Chang'e 5 T1 Long March 3C/E upper stage (originally launched October 2014).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Double impact crater spotted by LRO.








						Rogue rocket's moon crash site spotted by NASA probe (photos)
					

The March 4 impact created a weird double crater.




					www.space.com


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## HAL9000 (Jul 10, 2022)

its not spacex, but interesting


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## 2hats (Sep 30, 2022)

Study for potential SpaceX mission to reboost HST (perhaps as part of the private Polaris human spaceflight programme).









						NASA, SpaceX to Study Hubble Telescope Reboost Possibility
					

NASA and SpaceX signed an unfunded Space Act Agreement Thursday, Sept. 22, to study the feasibility of a SpaceX and Polaris Program idea to boost the agency’s Hubble Space Telescope into a higher orbit with the Dragon spacecraft, at no cost to the government.




					www.nasa.gov


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## weltweit (Sep 30, 2022)

"At no cost to the government" - how does that work?


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## Crispy (Sep 30, 2022)

weltweit said:


> "At no cost to the government" - how does that work?


Jared Isaacman wants to pay for it. The Polaris Programme is his private space programme, with the Inspiration 4 mission last year being a dry run. Polaris 1 will feature the first spacewalk from Dragon.


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