# Same job, same skills, different job title/pay



## Anju (May 24, 2012)

Hi

My friend works nights at the weekend, and several days during the week, and is having some issues with a new contract. I am his manager as well as friend and am trying to sort things out for him but am being constantly put off or given information that I do not trust. I have done as much reading as possible but there always seem to be a lot of ifs and buts in employment law. As we both work nights it is difficult to sort things out and we are both fairly easy going trusting people.

Today when I emailed my line manager today to ask for confirmation of whether the dayshift weekend person was a full or assistant supervisor he replied asking if we were talking about (nightshift person) or (dayshift person). I replied that we were in effect talking about both as they both had same role. 

He has waited a year to be given an actual written contract but has been working in the meantime as an 'assistant supervisor', there is no supervisor on his shift only a manager (me) and another 'assistant supervisor'. He is fine with this during the week but at weekends he is in sole charge of things. It appears that the person who does the dayshift has the job title of supervisor, and therefore better pay. They have pretty much identical skillsets. He is from Pakistan and I'm not sure which country she is from but she is Eastern European (White).

We have had no HR person for well over a year, the MD has been dealing with HR issues! When my friend emailed the recently appointed HR person on my advice my line manager intervened and said that he would speak to him as the HR person had not been around long enough to know what was going on.

I know they are acting illegally and want to help my friend but need to protect myself, as our MD is not the most stable person in the world.

Any advice would be most appreciated as i'm getting to a point where the arguments with my bosses are putting me in a position where I'm close to walking out, which I can't afford to do.


Anju


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## Termite Man (May 24, 2012)

Anju said:


> He is from Pakistan and I'm not sure which country she is from but she is Eastern European (White).
> 
> Anju


 

Do you think the difference is down to racism then because thats how this makes it come across?


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## Anju (May 24, 2012)

It could be. There is also an issue with another friend who works with us. She is from Japan and has a contract as an hourly paid supervisor and her contract has come with a letter saying that she had been offered the option of a salaried role and she has waived her right to that voluntarily. This was never really discussed with her and the 2 white guys that both have the same job as her, though I suspect may have been given slightly different job titles, have both been given salaried positions. 

I advised her not to sign the contract until she has taken some advice, and to ask about their pay rates if she feels she is being discriminated against.


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## 8115 (May 24, 2012)

ACAS?  I've never called them myself but I have heard good things.


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## Anju (May 24, 2012)

I might have to contact them. Trouble is that the people concerned worry about losing their jobs and as it seems like I am the only manager that sees what is happening as a problem and so I have no support. I had arranged for the HR person to stay late tonight but he has not confirmed yet and I suspect he is being dissuaded from getting involved.


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## 8115 (May 24, 2012)

Sounds very plausible.  All of it.  Good luck.   Just, pick your battles, you know?  Bad hours, lots of employees from other countries?  Some employers take this as a red rag to get away with anything they can.

However, I can see an argument for a night "supervisor" and a day "supervisor" sometimes being different roles.  Doesn't mean their employment practices aren't dodgy though.


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## Anju (May 24, 2012)

Thanks,

The only difference might be the customer service aspect but my friend probably has better communication skills than the dayshift supervisor.

Also I should add that there is no formal system for testing/measuring peoples skills or monitoring performance.

Off to walk the dog then to work so will not be able to reply to any posts for a while. Thanks for any help or information in advance.

Anju


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## Puddy_Tat (May 24, 2012)

From my perspective (and I'm not a lawyer or HR specialist, and it's a while since I was a union rep)

I don't think there's any law (I assume we're talking UK here) that everyone doing nominally the same job must get the same pay.  There's a lot of firms that have individual contracts and so on.  Even in a fairly rigidly structured set-up like local government, there's a pay range for each job, and where you are on that range can reflect qualifications and / or length of service. 

I've also known employers agree one set of terms & conditions with one union and a different set (or refuse to agree the new set) with the other union, in workplaces where there's more than one recognised union for the same job.

If the organisation is using a system like this to discriminate on grounds of race / gender / nationality / sexuality / disability, then it is illegal.   However, where there's only a few people involved, it's hard to de-personalise it enough to get into this.

I'm also pretty sure there's no legal requirement to pay an enhanced rate for 'unsocial hours' although many employers do.

Are the jobs really the same?  In terms of responsibility for supervising the same number of people?  accounting for cash?  dealing with customers?  security of the premises?  (or whatever local circumstances there are)

ACAS would potentially be a good call.

As would joining a union - although unions generally won't get involved in an issue that's arisen before someone joins (it would be like getting home and finding you've been burgled, and then trying to take out home insurance) - but if the employer is as crap as this, the chances are there will be other issues soon...


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## bemused (May 24, 2012)

Not sure why you think they are acting illegally? Companies are entitled to pay people do the same job different rates as long as they aren't doing on the grounds of race, religion or sex etc. They could simply think the other person is worth more. Maybe he should ask for a pay rise and see what happens, if the company says no he should look for another job.


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## ViolentPanda (May 24, 2012)

Anju said:


> I might have to contact them. Trouble is that the people concerned worry about losing their jobs and as it seems like I am the only manager that sees what is happening as a problem and so I have no support. I had arranged for the HR person to stay late tonight but he has not confirmed yet and I suspect he is being dissuaded from getting involved.


 
May be worth intimating to your line manager (so that they can pass it on to the MD) that one of the reasons you're worried is because if *they* put a foot wrong with regard to following procedure, the whole company ends up paying if their wrong-footing results in a tribunal. That's why companies have HR people - to ostensibly steer them away from making uninformed employment decisions that drop the company in the brown smelly stuff.


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## Anju (May 26, 2012)

I am going to take the violent panda route and plant seeds of worry in the narrow minds of those concerned.


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## Puddy_Tat (May 26, 2012)




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## ViolentPanda (May 26, 2012)

Anju said:


> I am going to take the violent panda route and plant seeds of worry in the narrow minds of those concerned.


 
It's worth doing. So many bosses ignore HR that it's *always* worth doing.

Does make you wonder why the vain, self-satisfied buggers bother to hire HR staff, though.


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