# Anyone still list their school education on CV/job applications?



## One dog (Mar 11, 2017)

Hi

I left school a good number of years ago and I tend to leave my school education off my CV now as it is superseded by post school education (uni' and post-grad' etc.,). When I fill in a job app' I don't list every GCSE with dates - I just write 'completed GCSE's and 'A' Levels' - this looks sufficient to me.

However, recent feedback (after being rejected for a clerical position) was that I had not listed my school education with grades and dates, on the app' form. I am well aware that employers like to use educational dates to guess the applicants age, so I am justified in leaving them out.

None of my professional friends / colleagues have this information on their CVs.

Does anyone else still put their school education (subject, grade, date etc) on applications even if they left school over 20 years ago?


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## Argonia (Mar 11, 2017)

No


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 11, 2017)

Think it depends on the circumstances.

Broadly speaking, the longer ago something was, the less detail you need.  

If it's a job where degree / professional qualifications are relevant, then broadly speaking most employers won't be that interested in you getting a B in GCSE woodwork (or whatever)

If it's something not related to your professional qualifications, then it may well be a good idea to say what grades you got in English and Maths at GCSE level at the very least (unless you've got maths and English qualifications at a higher level) - especially if employer states these as minimum qualifications for the job

Opinion is divided about whether you should put dates or not.  Also (if you're as old as I am) whether it's worth putting GCSE rather than 'O Level' for the benefit of employers who don't know what an O level is.

General consensus now is you should have a base CV, but customise it for different job applications, depending on whether you're selling specific past roles, or skills / abilities / qualities that are relevant to the job you're applying for.

Not all employers have quite grasped age discrimination legislation and best practice yet.  There are a few who haven't really got the hang of sex / age discrimination laws, and they have been around for 40+ years...


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## Sirena (Mar 11, 2017)

I think I would still include it in summary ie list/name your 'o' levels and 'a' levels (or whatever) and your university degrees and grades


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## One dog (Mar 11, 2017)

So the person who provided feedback about that job was just being a pedantic arse!!

NB I have 2 science degrees and a MA and PGCE, so listing GCSE English and Maths has stopped being relevant for me since I became qualified to teach them


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## One dog (Mar 11, 2017)

My friend is an anaesthetist and dropped the GCSE and 'A' level grades after graduating from med' school.


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## weltweit (Mar 11, 2017)

I actually can't remember what my GCSE / O levels were and I don't have the pieces of paper anymore. I think it is only application forms that ask for such things these days, luckily for me in my sector a CV is deemed ok.


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## Wookey (Mar 12, 2017)

It's a CV myth that you put all your qualifications ad nauseum... I'm currently cutting my CV down to one page, so no room for GCSEs! 

Your CV only exists to get you an interview,  not as a detailed biography of everything you've ever done.  And as had been said,  it should be edited and redirected for each job you apply for,  with a killer covering letter written after some good research into your potential new employer. 

I've used this method since I left college and apart from one job at the Royal College of speech and language therapists,  I have been given every job I ever went for.


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## Miss-Shelf (Mar 12, 2017)

does anyone have a good template CV they can signpost me to?


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## Wookey (Mar 12, 2017)

Miss-Shelf said:


> does anyone have a good template CV they can signpost me to?



If you use a template, you'll look like the majority of applicants (who borrow templates).

It's not a great way to stand out in the application stage really.

I'm reading how to create a One Page CV (The One Page CV: Create Your Own High Impact CV. Clever, Clear, and Comprehensive. Get Noticed and Beat the Competition: Amazon.co.uk: Paul Hichens: Books) - its a great book that destroys a lot of previously held "truths" about CVs, and I've found it really enlightening and freeing to know that the "rules" are actually no such thing!

For example, why take up 6 vertical lines with your name, address and contact details, when they can go on one line? Why put "Curriculum Vitae" at the top of the page, when it's obvious what it is?

Why include your GCSEs when you have a degree?

Why have a five sentence profile, when one sentence should be enough?

Why include every job you've had, when some won't be relevant?

Why not conflate two jobs into one section, if it makes sense and allows you more room to show your skills within those jobs?

Essentially, the author says that templates will do you a disservice, and having read his logic I agree.


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## Thimble Queen (Mar 12, 2017)

Miss-Shelf said:


> does anyone have a good template CV they can signpost me to?



I can email you mine if you like


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## Miss-Shelf (Mar 12, 2017)

most education related jobs require a detailed application form so I've never put much effort into my cv because each application form has been very detailed and specific to the skills set for that job 

I take your point about templates being generic  _I'll have a look at that link - thanks Wookey


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## Miss-Shelf (Mar 12, 2017)

Thimble Queen said:


> I can email you mine if you like


thank you


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## Stanley Edwards (Mar 12, 2017)

I'm still very proud about my Art 'O' Level grade B.


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## Thimble Queen (Mar 12, 2017)

Miss-Shelf said:


> thank you



Cool will send it over after sleep has happened. I think I've only got your old worK email though so you might have to drop me a pm with your preferred email address to send to


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## Wookey (Mar 12, 2017)

Stanley Edwards said:


> I'm still very proud about my Art 'O' Level grade B.



Sorry Stanley, but in terms of your CV the first picture you ever sold made your GCSE pretty redundant.


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 13, 2017)

Wookey said:


> with a killer covering letter



you write it in polonium based ink?


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## TikkiB (Mar 13, 2017)

I recently applied for a job at a University where they required not just your O'levels/GSCE but the DAY you were awarded them.  Given how many jobs I have been rejected for before shortlisting recently, I am going to start leaving them off my CV but it's more problematic when you are applying for a public sector job which uses a standard application form.  I guess I just need to leave that bit blank.  I've got a BA and an MA so they can fucking well assume that I've matriculated.


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## skyscraper101 (Mar 13, 2017)

No, but it does still sit on my LinkedIn and I'm going to remove it soon. I think I was just trying to be a completist at the time of creating but I can't imagine anybody seriously cares what A-Levels I did by now, let alone my GCSEs or Primary School.


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## Winot (Mar 13, 2017)

I like to see A levels on candidate CVs because our profession requires a good broad science background as well as a science degree.


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## iona (Mar 13, 2017)

Only qualifications I have are one GCSE and an NVQ. I would list them on my CV if I had one, but I don't.


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## One dog (Mar 13, 2017)

Winot said:


> I like to see A levels on candidate CVs because our profession requires a good broad science background as well as a science degree.



May I ask which profession this is please? Not nosey, just wondering if it is my sector (broadly speaking).


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## Winot (Mar 13, 2017)

One dog said:


> May I ask which profession this is please? Not nosey, just wondering if it is my sector (broadly speaking).



Patents.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2017)

One dog said:


> Hi
> 
> I left school a good number of years ago and I tend to leave my school education off my CV now as it is superseded by post school education (uni' and post-grad' etc.,). When I fill in a job app' I don't list every GCSE with dates - I just write 'completed GCSE's and 'A' Levels' - this looks sufficient to me.
> 
> ...


i put them on application forms as requested. but having a statistically significant number of degrees it seems a bit pointless to detail what happened when i was 16.


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## spanglechick (Mar 13, 2017)

One dog said:


> So the person who provided feedback about that job was just being a pedantic arse!!
> 
> NB I have 2 science degrees and a MA and PGCE, so listing GCSE English and Maths has stopped being relevant for me since I became qualified to teach them



Worth saying that -different to most of the rest of the professional world- it is still expected to detail each qualification from GCSE onwards when applying for teaching jobs.


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## chilango (Mar 13, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Worth saying that -different to most of the rest of the professional world- it is still expected to detail each qualification from GCSE onwards when applying for teaching jobs.



...and account for all periods of time since the age of 18.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 13, 2017)

Having bailed out of education once GCSE's were done I don't have anything more to put on a CV, except lies. Lies are good.

Dr Bahnhof Strasse MA Hons Oxon.


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## One dog (Mar 13, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Worth saying that -different to most of the rest of the professional world- it is still expected to detail each qualification from GCSE onwards when applying for teaching jobs.


It was not even a teaching job  just clerical.


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## One dog (Mar 13, 2017)

Winot said:


> Patents.


 Nothing to do with me then


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## Sapphireblue (Mar 14, 2017)

i would put them on an application form if it specifically requested them. it might be they considered you leaving them off as poor attention to detail if they were listed as required?

i do still tend to put, e.g. 8 GCSEs, A at English and Maths.
partly because people like to know that you did ok at the 'core' subjects and partly because my academic life peaked with GCSEs/A Levels!
i'd leave them off if there wasn't room though. they're not usually expected.


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## One dog (Mar 14, 2017)

So for people who went on to other education after school, listing out GCSEs just seems superfluous then, because I would have needed to demonstrate grades above C in order to access a degree course.


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## One dog (Mar 14, 2017)

chilango said:


> ...and account for all periods of time since the age of 18.



Just from 18? I thought they wanted CV history from birth to present day with not so much as a minute's gap unaccounted for.


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## chilango (Mar 14, 2017)

One dog said:


> Just from 18? I thought they wanted CV history from birth to present day with not so much as a minute's gap unaccounted for.



Safeguarding.

It's fair enough really.


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## spanglechick (Mar 14, 2017)

One dog said:


> So for people who went on to other education after school, listing out GCSEs just seems superfluous then, because I would have needed to demonstrate grades above C in order to access a degree course.


Not all degree courses require Cs in maths and English at GCSE.


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## One dog (Mar 15, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Not all degree courses require Cs in maths and English at GCSE.



I didn't know that


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## heinous seamus (Mar 16, 2017)

I do. I find it's best to keep reminding people about that 'A' I got in 2001


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## ElizabethofYork (Mar 16, 2017)

I think the fact that it was a clerical job means that they would have been expecting to see a list of GCSEs and A Levels, with grades.  Sometimes the CVs are given to underlings to sort through, and they may have been told to reject anyone who didn't have certain GCSEs/A levels.

Your degrees may not have even been looked at!


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## One dog (Mar 16, 2017)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I think the fact that it was a clerical job means that they would have been expecting to see a list of GCSEs and A Levels, with grades.  Sometimes the CVs are given to underlings to sort through, and they may have been told to reject anyone who didn't have certain GCSEs/A levels.
> 
> Your degrees may not have even been looked at!


Yes, I am sure you are right ElizabethofYork. The thing about not including the school ed' was raised as part of the feedback after I did not get shortlisted. I guess that I was just overqualified anyway, if that was such a big deal to the employer. I know what to do when I fill in another form.


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## One dog (Mar 16, 2017)

heinous seamus said:


> I do. I find it's best to keep reminding people about that 'A' I got in 2001



If you have got it, flaunt it


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## komodo (Mar 22, 2017)

To put it rather bluntly, if you didn't complete the application form in the way the way it was set out it may lead the employer to think a) you can't follow instructions and b) you lack attention to detail. Which would not make you a good candidate for an admin job no matter how many higher qualifications you have.


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## One dog (Mar 22, 2017)

Komodo, fair point well made. I will now have 2 separate approaches to different jobs applied for. Thanks for the tip.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

Are CVs on their way out anyway?
Might just be in education, but all the jobs I've applied for in the past five years won't let you submit a CV. Instead you have to fill in online applications. And most of those, IME, make you account for all of the time after you've left school, including employment gaps. And some forms require exact dates for each transition, to the day, so I've been having to make dates up. Very frustrating and pointless.


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## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Are CVs on their way out anyway?
> Might just be in education, but all the jobs I've applied for in the past five years won't let you submit a CV. Instead you have to fill in online applications. And most of those, IME, make you account for all of the time after you've left school, including employment gaps. And some forms require exact dates for each transition, to the day, so I've been having to make dates up. Very frustrating and pointless.



Education sector specific for safeguarding reasons ("safer recruitement" practises).


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## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

Another annoyance - one job I'm applying for at the moment specifies that I have to prove my qualifications. Keep your certificates, people, as they're bloody hard to acquire retrospectively!


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## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Another annoyance - one job I'm applying for at the moment specifies that I have to prove my qualifications. Keep your certificates, people, as they're bloody hard to acquire retrospectively!



Is it a school?

Schools need to have noted on their "single central record" that proof of qualifications has been seen, by whom, and the date seen. Inspectors may go through this with a fine tooth comb looking for discrepancies.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> Is it a school?
> 
> Schools need to have noted on their "single central record" that proof of qualifications has been seen, by whom, and the date seen. Inspectors may go through this with a fine tooth comb looking for discrepancies.


no, a higher education establishment. think i'm done with schools.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 22, 2017)

komodo said:


> To put it rather bluntly, if you didn't complete the application form in the way the way it was set out it may lead the employer to think a) you can't follow instructions and b) you lack attention to detail. Which would not make you a good candidate for an admin job no matter how many higher qualifications you have.



Yes this. I'd also say that while at interview they might be looking for the single best candidate, at the application form they're basically looking for reasons to filter applications out. It's really only once you're down to a workable shortlist that you start looking at your best qualities. Not filling in the form properly is an ideal excuse to move an application to the 'unsuccessful' pile.


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## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Are CVs on their way out anyway?
> Might just be in education, but all the jobs I've applied for in the past five years won't let you submit a CV. Instead you have to fill in online applications. And most of those, IME, make you account for all of the time after you've left school, including employment gaps. And some forms require exact dates for each transition, to the day, so I've been having to make dates up. Very frustrating and pointless.



Whilst not common, some independent schools still use CV based applications. But then some independent schools are really just interested in whether you went to the "right type of school" yourself and so your secondary education is front and centre on their application forms along with some bullshit about "ethos of the school" on their person spec.


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## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> no, a higher education establishment. think i'm done with schools.



i don't know, but could imagine similar safeguarding measures being required.


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## green.tea (Mar 22, 2017)

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/how-autistic-is-this.351235/


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## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

green.tea said:


> https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/how-autistic-is-this.351235/


what are you playing at?


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