# Netherlands v Argentina



## strung out (Dec 9, 2022)

Hup Holland hup!


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## AverageJoe (Dec 9, 2022)

All the Argentina players are exactly the same height in that lineup for the anthems...


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## Pickman's model (Dec 9, 2022)

Play up holland


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## Maggot (Dec 9, 2022)

Anyone know what 'ball recovery time' is?


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## twistedAM (Dec 9, 2022)

Come on Argentina!


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## MrCurry (Dec 9, 2022)

Did the ref just give the manager of Argentina a yellow card?


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## strung out (Dec 9, 2022)

Maggot said:


> Anyone know what 'ball recovery time' is?


I think it's average time taken to win the ball back after it's been lost.


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

That was a pretty decent goal...


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## Puddy_Tat (Dec 9, 2022)

Maggot said:


> Anyone know what 'ball recovery time' is?



something that happens after a nasty accident to a defender in the defensive wall?


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## planetgeli (Dec 9, 2022)

He's a little magician, that's what he is.


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## Supine (Dec 9, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> He's a little magician, that's what he is.



Better at football than Paul Daniels & Debbie McGee combined


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Supine said:


> Better at football than Paul Daniels & Debbie McGee combined


Little known fact, Debbie McGee was a pretty tenacious left back in her youth.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 9, 2022)

Messi really is something else, isn't he?


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## ska invita (Dec 9, 2022)

Jonathan Pearce's voice doesn't suit world cup football


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## ska invita (Dec 9, 2022)

was it a pen? not watching properly. looked like a dive


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## Fez909 (Dec 9, 2022)

ska invita said:


> was it a pen? not watching properly. looked like a dive


Soft, but "there was contact" so probably (within the rule book).

I wouldn't give a pen for that if I was in charge of the rules, though.


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## The39thStep (Dec 9, 2022)

Fez909 said:


> Soft, but "there was contact" so probably (within the rule book).
> 
> I wouldn't give a pen for that if I was in charge of the rules, though.


Sadly its what VAR say or would say that affects the decision these days.


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## ska invita (Dec 9, 2022)

Need to scrap VAR and bring in FEZ


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2022)

Great goal.


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## Limejuice (Dec 9, 2022)

Ooh, a rugbyesque melee.


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Ten minutes added time


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## WhyLikeThis (Dec 9, 2022)

Some mild handbags decried ”spoiled the occasion” ?

Best bit of the match so far.


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## souljacker (Dec 9, 2022)

Excellent baseball style bench clearer that. Well done all.


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Fucking lol!!11!!!


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## Indeliblelink (Dec 9, 2022)

oh my


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## belboid (Dec 9, 2022)

Well, the argies deserve that for wotsisname being a twat.


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## QueenOfGoths (Dec 9, 2022)

OMFG!!!!


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## quiet guy (Dec 9, 2022)

Mad mad game


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## WhyLikeThis (Dec 9, 2022)

Fuck my old potatoes!!


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## two sheds (Dec 9, 2022)

hahaha fucking great - looked like he'd miskicked the free kick


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2022)

Oh my days, fantastic. I was saying internally they aint gonna do it.

I'm so glad I was wrong.


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## quiet guy (Dec 9, 2022)

It's all kicking off.


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## Buddy Bradley (Dec 9, 2022)

Only turned it on for the last 10 minutes, what great timing!


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## Fez909 (Dec 9, 2022)

brilliant stuff


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## Bingoman (Dec 9, 2022)

This match is just crazy


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## Athos (Dec 9, 2022)

Clever free kick.  Momentum now with Holland.  Argentina at risk of losing their heads.


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## Supine (Dec 9, 2022)

Gosh!


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## quiet guy (Dec 9, 2022)

Do Argentina put up the shutters for the extra time and go for the penalties or go all out? Will the Dutch realize they could this?


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## two sheds (Dec 9, 2022)

Bloody hell that free kick took some nerve


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## Plumdaff (Dec 9, 2022)

Netherlands valiantly keeping me in the work sweepstake with the cheekiest free kick of all time.


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## ska invita (Dec 9, 2022)

havent watched closely but i felt like argentina fell over a lot <fair?


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## quiet guy (Dec 9, 2022)

I can't see this ref getting the final, he can't control this lot.


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## Fez909 (Dec 9, 2022)

That gesticulating/hand waving thing the Argentinian crowd do - is that related to the meme that they're Italian?


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## two sheds (Dec 9, 2022)

how many bookings we had so far?


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2022)

Today is why I do love the WC , didnt want to watch it due to the reasons, then thought I cant stop it now.

It has certainly been entertaining.


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## Supine (Dec 9, 2022)

That free kick was just amazing


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## Numbers (Dec 9, 2022)

Sure did take some stones to pull that off, brilliant.


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## belboid (Dec 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> how many bookings we had so far?


Only 11


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## May Kasahara (Dec 9, 2022)

An amazing free kick AND plenty of shameless handbags  Love it.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 9, 2022)

Fair fucks for the big balls free kick. Want Messi to win the WC if we don't but the Dutch have been good all tournament, under the radar


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 9, 2022)

Messi doesn't need to be rolling around, stop it


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## two sheds (Dec 9, 2022)

belboid said:


> Only 11


Plus one for the Argentinian coach I hear


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

belboid said:


> Only 11


14 now


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2022)

Wow again


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Shame this will have to be decided on penalties, almost.


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Christ that was an effort in the dying seconds.


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## belboid (Dec 9, 2022)

Well, you gotta fancy Noppert in the pens


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## QueenOfGoths (Dec 9, 2022)

Noooo. More wanting to wee!!!


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2022)

ah, I dont want to hope...

A great day of football anyway


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## planetgeli (Dec 9, 2022)

Brilliant last 5 minutes. Great game.


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Worth mentioning nearly the entire, almost at  capacity, 90,000 seater stadium are cheering for Argentina...


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## r0bb0 (Dec 9, 2022)

Penalties


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## oryx (Dec 9, 2022)

Is it my imagination or are an awful lot of players missing penalties in this competition?


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Nooooo, fucking boo.


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## belboid (Dec 9, 2022)

Another yellow!


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## Fez909 (Dec 9, 2022)

Get the fuck in you stuttering cunt!


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Bonus yellow card


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## blairsh (Dec 9, 2022)

Ergh.


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## mx wcfc (Dec 9, 2022)

Oh poo


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## QueenOfGoths (Dec 9, 2022)

Awwwww


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 9, 2022)

Ah, never mind.


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## two sheds (Dec 9, 2022)

were the better side though has to be said


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## WhyLikeThis (Dec 9, 2022)

At least they’ll be carrying a load of yellow cards with them.


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## May Kasahara (Dec 9, 2022)

Oh well. I hope Argentina trounce Croatia in the semi.


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## The39thStep (Dec 9, 2022)

Thank god for that , I have never forgiven the Dutch for forcing that kid to stand there overnight with his finger in a dyke


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## strung out (Dec 9, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> At least they’ll be carrying a load of yellow cards with them.


They get wiped after the quarter finals.


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## belboid (Dec 9, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> At least they’ll be carrying a load of yellow cards with them.


They’re wiped after the quarters


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## Athos (Dec 9, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> At least they’ll be carrying a load of yellow cards with them.


No longer count.


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## Raheem (Dec 9, 2022)

WhyLikeThis said:


> At least they’ll be carrying a load of yellow cards with them.


They get wiped before the semi-finals.

Edit: Can anyone confirm this?


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## WhyLikeThis (Dec 9, 2022)

Boo


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## belboid (Dec 9, 2022)

Although you are still suspended if you picked up a second yellow, I think at least one guy is out.


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## Supine (Dec 9, 2022)

Will be a pleasure watching messi in the next one. What a player.


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## ska invita (Dec 9, 2022)

Come on Hrvatska! Do the double!!


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## strung out (Dec 9, 2022)

Supine said:


> Will be a pleasure watching messi in the next one. What a player.


Got a decent future ahead of him as long as he doesn't let this early success go to his head.


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## Supine (Dec 9, 2022)

My fav Argentine celebration video ever!


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## donkyboy (Dec 9, 2022)

Will be supporting Argentina in the semis.


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## donkyboy (Dec 9, 2022)

Supine said:


> My fav Argentine celebration video ever!




fav argy celeb video ever? seems just like any other fan celebration video


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## not-bono-ever (Dec 9, 2022)

not a bad game. Would have preferred the hollands to go through but yeh.


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## weltweit (Dec 9, 2022)

I decided to root for Mesi and Argentina and for a while it looked a done deal but no, edge of my seat for what seemed like hours! When the final penalty went in I was absolutely exhausted. 

I expect watching England play France will be equally stressful, not sure I can cope with the excitement.


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## magneze (Dec 9, 2022)

Exciting game. Great for the neutral.


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## ska invita (Dec 9, 2022)

magneze said:


> Exciting game. Great for the neutral.


yeah i wasnt very invested in either team but the tension was real

rewatched the brasil croatia highlights....what a game that was too. kind of sad brasil are out as they are another level, but happy to wait another 4 years, thats what makes the stakes high


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## tommers (Dec 9, 2022)

ska invita said:


> yeah i wasnt very invested in either team but the tension was real
> 
> rewatched the brasil croatia highlights....what a game that was too. kind of sad brasil are out as they are another level, but happy to wait another 4 years, thats what makes the stakes high


They're not "at another level". They just got beaten by an aging Croatia team. Give up the mythology.


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## MrCurry (Dec 10, 2022)

A bit of added context around the Dutch substitutions can be found in the match report from De Telegraaf (biggest Dutch daily paper) I was actually checking it to see if they were moaning about the ref doing them dirty, but they didn’t seem to make any complaint in that direction, instead revealing Van Gaal messed up by letting his tactics get photographed:



> In an attempt to get the Orange to play football a bit more, Van Gaal made a double substitution at halftime.  Bergwijn and Marten de Roon had to make way for Steven Berghuis and Teun Koopmeiners.  That didn't change the game image much.  The Netherlands was allowed to have the ball from Argentina, but the Orange team did nothing in the enemy penalty area.  The offensive powerlessness of the Orange in this phase of the match was painful to watch.  Goalkeeper Emiliano Martinez could have brought a folding chair with him, so little was he put to the test.
> 
> But as long as the margin was only one, there was still a chance that a stray ball from Orange would fall in.  Perhaps a bit earlier than planned, Van Gaal switched to plan B. Daley Blind was unable to continue and Luuk de Jong came in his place, causing Gakpo to move to his favorite left flank.  That plan B had come to light during the game, because Van Gaal or one of his assistants had left a note with the scenario of two strong strikers on the bench, after which it was photographed.
> 
> That plan B seemed to be thwarted when Argentina doubled their lead.  Denzel Dumfries tapped Marcos Acuna in the penalty area and the Spanish referee Mateu Lahoz put the ball on the spot.  Although he had missed against Poland in the third group match, Messi went after the penalty and this time he shot the ball in flawlessly: his fourth tournament goal and 95th in total for the Argentina side.


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## QueenOfGoths (Dec 10, 2022)

tommers said:


> They're not "at another level". They just got beaten by an aging Croatia team. Give up the mythology.


Sorry but are you my husband  That's more or less what he said though I think he used the word "eulogising" rather than mythology!!


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## tommers (Dec 10, 2022)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Sorry but are you my husband  That's more or less what he said though I think he used the word "eulogising" rather than mythology!!


He sounds like a great person.


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## Fuzzy (Dec 10, 2022)

just seen that free kick. audacious. but pretty cool.


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## Magic (Dec 10, 2022)

Massive lack of class from the victors:


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## ska invita (Dec 10, 2022)

tommers said:


> They're not "at another level". They just got beaten by an aging Croatia team. Give up the mythology.


lesser teams can occassionaly beat better teams, thats what makes knock out cup football so entertaining
the skill level across the brazil squad is something else - by far the most beautiful game team to watch IMO
neymars goal in this game will be goal of the tournament
croatias goal was a miss that deflected in
and so on
croatia ground it out with discipline and skill to squeeze a draw .....and penalites is penalties - brazil are the better team without a doubt
croatia are also last years world cup second place runners up - they're no crap team


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## Maltin (Dec 10, 2022)

ska invita said:


> lesser teams can occassionaly beat better teams, thats what makes knock out cup football so entertaining
> the skill level across the brazil squad is something else - by far the most beautiful game team to watch IMO
> neymars goal in this game will be goal of the tournament
> croatias goal was a miss that deflected in
> ...


Neymar’s goal shouldn’t be goal of the tournament. The build up was good but I thought he was pretty lucky to score as seemed to lose control. Richarlison’s goals against Korea and Serbia were much better in my opinion. 

After the disrespect they showed to Korea in the previous game I’m quite happy they got beat by Croatia. They also got beat by Cameroon and had a slim victory over Switzerland so weren’t exactly that great a team.


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## ska invita (Dec 10, 2022)

Maltin said:


> Neymar’s goal shouldn’t be goal of the tournament. The build up was good but I thought he was pretty lucky to score as seemed to lose control. Richarlison’s goals against Korea and Serbia were much better in my opinion.


Couldn't disagree more on the first part, it was a goal of the highest natural ability against the hardest of defences - not lucky. the bit where he "loses controL" is where he was pushed off his run, and still goes on. its a team goal as much as it is his - two other brilliant 1-2 touches, though he plays the key role

Brazil and Argentina have a record of dialing it in a bit in lesser matches... Iirc In 2002 they only just qualified for the world cup, cue British journalists saying they weren't really that good etc. They went on to win it in style.

Richarlisons goals were great, but context adds a lot, Neymars goal was scored in a game of empass - a moment of genius to break the deadlock. (Even aside from that I think Neymars was a better goal tbh  )

I don't go along with the goal celebrations are an insult thing <totally standard for any football team especially when the stakes are so high and the stress levels off the chart
I can see why people don't want them to win - I cheered on Croatia - but the fact is Brazilian football is still the most beautiful to watch of all the national teams - for me at least.


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## Maltin (Dec 10, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Couldn't disagree more on the first part, it was a goal of the highest natural ability against the hardest of defences - not lucky. the bit where he "loses controL" is where he was pushed off his run, and still goes on. its a team goal as much as it is his - two other brilliant 1-2 touches, though he plays the key role
> 
> Brazil and Argentina have a record of dialing it in a bit in lesser matches... Iirc In 2002 they only just qualified for the world cup, cue British journalists saying they weren't really that good etc. They went on to win it in style.
> 
> ...


All teams celebrate goals. Most teams don’t waste time while the opposition are ready to kick off to have a little dance with the manager and the substitutes.


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## ska invita (Dec 10, 2022)

Maltin said:


> All teams celebrate goals. Most teams don’t waste time while the opposition are ready to kick off to have a little dance with the manager and the substitutes.



i dont see the problem


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## The39thStep (Dec 10, 2022)

Brazil traditionally are a very strong team and  in the last six World Cups have never been out of the top 3 in the betting . Even in 2002, they were third favourites . However, they haven't won it since 2002 and their best place finish has been one semi final( they lost the 3/4th place play off 7-1). It could be said that rather than scale the heights Brazil tend to under perform at the World Cup.

I'd agree with ska invita on the Neymar goal. For me it is , so far the goal of the tournament; a superb team goal and a tenacious finish with Neymar out muscling the defender to get the bounce.

Can't say I'm bothered about Brazil's celebrations, there is still a human referee on the pitch and he/she has cards in their pocket and there seems to have been more time added on in this competition than any other. 

People have all sorts of reasons for disliking a team , in this  World Cup its mainly been about the personalities of certain players, other times its been about the country's politics. I'm amazed that the mega tax avoiding but football genius Messi remains seemingly unscathed on these forums.


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## Maltin (Dec 10, 2022)

Messi and some of the other Argentinian players eg Emi Martinez seem to have been quite ungracious in their victory last night so quite happy to see them fail too. Seems like the Dutch must have wound them up a lot given their reaction.


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## ska invita (Dec 10, 2022)

Something unlikeable about this Argentina side - just a vibe for me, not knowing the ins and outs.


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## twistedAM (Dec 10, 2022)

Maltin said:


> Messi and some of the other Argentinian players eg Emi Martinez seem to have been quite ungracious in their victory last night so quite happy to see them fail too. Seems like the Dutch must have wound them up a lot given their reaction.


I never picked it up at the time but reading some post-match reports it seemed the Dutch were being a bit arrogant and playing mind games in the run up to the game. Plus they used their physicality a lot during the game and people like Van Dyck are pretty good at being dirty but not dirty enough to pick up a yellow card. Plus the Dutch were boring and the referee out of his depth. So happy Argentina won. My preferred final now would be Argentina vs England and I'm pretty neutral on who wins but if Foden plays it'll be England.


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## Maltin (Dec 10, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> People have all sorts of reasons for disliking a team , in this  World Cup its mainly been about the personalities of certain players, other times it’s been about the country's politics. I'm amazed that the mega tax avoiding but football genius Messi remains seemingly unscathed on these forums.


I imagine that living in a country where the pro-Ronaldo anti-Messi rhetoric is probably biggest might cloud your view of the players.


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## twistedAM (Dec 10, 2022)

..and, cut and pasting this from a Man City forum. Also note at least one Dutch player was yellow carded during the shoot out

"Former Manchester City defender Nicolas Otamendi captured the world's attention yesterday after he appeared to mock the Dutch team during his celebration of Argentina's World Cup quarter-final win against Holland via a penalty shoot-out. Otamendi used his hands to mimic mouse ears and aimed the gesture at the forlorn Dutch team as he and his teammates ran off in celebration.

The defender has commented on the incident and explained his reason for the gesture."There was one who, in each penalty we were going to take, would come up and say things to one of our players," he said. "The photo is taken out of context and the celebration was for that."

The player he was referring to was apparently Denzel Dumfries.

On the left in the image below you can see Otamendi's celebration and on the right you can see a collection of photos of Dumfries interacting with different Argentine players during the penalty shootout"


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## The39thStep (Dec 10, 2022)

Maltin said:


> I imagine that living in a country where the pro-Ronaldo anti-Messi rhetoric is probably biggest might cloud your view of the players.


Whilst I am all for Marx’s premise that the prevailing ideas are the ideas of the ruling class , I’ve never come across much anti Messi rhetoric here tbh .


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## Maltin (Dec 10, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Whilst I am all for Marx’s premise that the prevailing ideas are the ideas of the ruling class , I’ve never come across much anti Messi rhetoric here tbh .


Portugal or here?


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## The39thStep (Dec 10, 2022)

Maltin said:


> Portugal or here?


Either tbh . I think it’s generally accepted that both Ronaldo and Messi have been incredible players but their time is just about over as will be the futile which one is better debate .
The reaction of Ronaldo being made sub here wasn’t five days of mourning , it was that it gave the team more fluidity and that he could still have an impact as a sub .


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## weltweit (Dec 10, 2022)

What do people think of the referee in this game? At times he seemed only just in control .. like when there was nearly a riot and how many yellow cards did he give?


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## ska invita (Dec 10, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> The reaction of Ronaldo being made sub here wasn’t five days of mourning , it was that it gave the team more fluidity and that he could still have an impact as a sub .


he's blatantly in the super sub category now i think, and keeping him hungry (which he still is) can only increase his impact


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## Maltin (Dec 10, 2022)

weltweit said:


> What do people think of the referee in this game? At times he seemed only just in control .. like when there was nearly a riot and how many yellow cards did he give?


He was pretty useless


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## belboid (Dec 10, 2022)

ska invita said:


> he's blatantly in the super sub category now i think, and keeping him hungry (which he still is) can only increase his impact


didn't quite work out like that in the last game tho, did it?   Came on, tried to get another goal for himself, sulked when the other sub got one.

Can you really see him accepting a supersub role?  I can't.  May as well go for the mega millions on offer from the (especially) scummy states.


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## ska invita (Dec 10, 2022)

belboid said:


> didn't quite work out like that in the last game tho, did it?   Came on, tried to get another goal for himself, sulked when the other sub got one.
> 
> Can you really see him accepting a superb role?  I can't.  May as well go for the mega millions on offer from the (especially) scummy states.


he definitely needs to adjust to the reality


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