# Work wants access to medical records



## Junglist (Jun 30, 2012)

I was off ill with a virus for a week and work decided they wanted to look at my medical records and said it was to do with my previous absences which I had dotted around through the last 12 months.

I was told (which I am not sure it's true) by another party that it can be done as long as it is related to similar absences and not just because they want to look through to see if I went to the doctors when I said I did.

I said OK but as long as I can see the information before hand but they want my entire medical history. I was put on the spot to say yes or no and said I wanted time to think it over but they wanted an answers quickly. After thinking about it I thought it felt like a violation on my privacy but I guess I cannot withdraw it now so what exactly is it they get? My actual medical records or a letter from the GP stating my current/previous health condition?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 30, 2012)

Doctors won't (or definitely shouldn't) deliver medical records to just anyone. What did you sign and what did it say?

I would never, ever give anyone the ability to access my whole medical records, under any circumstance, btw.


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## Blagsta (Jun 30, 2012)

Is it work or a third party occupational health company?


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## Junglist (Jun 30, 2012)

It was for them to access my medical records and nothing more. I read the legislation on it and the document I signed was legally fine.

EDIT: It's my employer that wants them.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 30, 2012)

Are you in the UK?


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## Junglist (Jun 30, 2012)

Yup I am, England to me precise.


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## Blagsta (Jun 30, 2012)

Its more common for occupation health to do this.


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## equationgirl (Jun 30, 2012)

Read your employer's policy on managing sickness absence. It is usual for this to happen when a certain number of absences within a certain time period occur, for example 6 single days over 6 months.

However, I doubt whether your GP will send over a copy of your notes to your employer, it will more likely that you gave permission for your employer to contact your GP in light of your absences.

Get a hold of the policy and make sure it is followed to the letter, by you and your employer.

By the way, you are entitled to withdraw your permission at any time, or limit your permission to specific aspects, for example anything relating only to a recent operation you had.

As an example, after a serious illness a few years ago, my employer said they wanted to talk to my GP. I gave my permission, but a few weeks later I was told by my GP that nothing had ever come from my employer. When asked, my employer said they had a sufficient report from occupational health so hadn't asked for it - they conveniently forgot to mention this to me. I wrote them a letter revoking permission, as the last thing I wanted was a blanket permission sat on my file.


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## equationgirl (Jun 30, 2012)

And ask for a copy of the report as well.


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## moonsi til (Jun 30, 2012)

Can employers really just ask you to sign a consent/waiver form and see all your medical records?


I have been the manager where an employee was being taken down a constructive dismissal route due to multiple time off work and whilst there was supporting medical evidence such as diagnosis and confirmed medical visits we did not have their notes. I worked closely with HR and this was never suggested. This employee had breached the sickness policy over a period of years and ended up being subject to having to produce a medical note for any sickness so no self cert allowed.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 30, 2012)

moonsi til said:


> Can employers really just ask you to sign a consent/waiver form and see all your medical records?


I don't think so. This seems a bit sus. I am going to enquire further.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jun 30, 2012)

This (NHS website) may be worth a read - refers to asking a doctor for a report on an employee, not seeking a copy of the full medical records.

This however appears to suggest that with permission, a third party can do a 'subject access request' for a full record.

Do you know which you signed?


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## Junglist (Jun 30, 2012)

Thanks a lot for your help!! Really appreciate it.

Fridge Magnet. Regarding the part where I can withdraw consent, is there anything I can read online that says so? I will ask to withdraw but would like a little info in case I am challenged.


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## Junglist (Jun 30, 2012)

@Puddy. I cannot remember which was signed but I will check tomorrow.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 30, 2012)

What it looks like to me so far from talking to a doctor is that there is no way somebody can just have access to your medical records. Work has to make a request to a doctor for a report (who will ask them to pay for it). It needs to be on a specific topic and for a specific reason, and consent from the patient is needed, and the doctor should ask whether the patient is happy with it before delivering it to your work. They will not just hand over your medical details. If work wants anything further in the future they will have to make another, specific, request.

They won't lie if you don't agree on a particular statement, but if there's a disagreement they should just say that they can't answer the question and the company should refer to occupational health.

You can withdraw consent at any time.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 30, 2012)

About withdrawing consent: "The easiest thing to do is to phone GP in morning, tell receptionists that you have withdrawn consent and will be putting it in writing that you have done so on such a date and such a time and will hand it in shortly. Nothing will leave the practice! However, best thing to do is to ask GP to please discuss it with you before issuing, or to give specific details in writing as to what you wish them to allow. If there is nothing you don't mind the GP disclosing, just say you do not object to a report with approval from yourself, but not the whole medical notes being handed over."


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 30, 2012)

I think one thing to take from this is that HR will really lie to your face about this stuff, and tell you they have the authority to do anything at all. Basically, bosses are cunts.

(that part is admittedly my addition and not based on advice from my doctor friend)


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## equationgirl (Jun 30, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think one thing to take from this is that HR will really lie to your face about this stuff, and tell you they have the authority to do anything at all. Basically, bosses are cunts.
> 
> (that part is admittedly my addition and not based on advice from my doctor friend)


In my experience, with HR matters sometimes it's easier to educate yourself on the relevant aspects because getting information out of them is like trying to get blood out of a stone.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 30, 2012)

equationgirl said:


> In my experience, with HR matters sometimes it's easier to educate yourself on the relevant aspects because getting information out of them is like trying to get blood out of a stone.


Having had some really terrible issues with HR departments about health, and no positive ones, I'd certainly say the same. Don't believe a word they say and always check everything. Like they've just knocked on your door and are trying to sell you something.


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## equationgirl (Jun 30, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Having had some really terrible issues with HR departments about health, and no positive ones, I'd certainly say the same. Don't believe a word they say and always check everything. Like they've just knocked on your door and are trying to sell you something.


They're not known for following their own policies, sometimes, and as for differentiating between acute illness management (e.g. virus) and chronic illness management (e.g. chronic kidney disease), forget it. At least occupational health were on my side when I was under probation for a year due to serious illness and then recovery.

I do think that sometimes some of the people want to change things but they get ground down by the system.


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## Junglist (Jul 1, 2012)

Again, great advice. Thanks.

I will ask to retract my consent which I know it's gonna be a case of "It's too late, it's already signed" or "We've already sent it of". Either way I will contact my GP and let them know.


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## equationgirl (Jul 1, 2012)

Junglist said:


> Again, great advice. Thanks.
> 
> I will ask to retract my consent which I know it's gonna be a case of "It's too late, it's already signed" or "We've already sent it of". Either way I will contact my GP and let them know.


With respect, you're not asking them if it's ok to withdraw your consent. IT'S YOUR CONSENT TO WITHDRAW OR GIVE AS YOU SEE FIT.

Send a letter to HR, asking that it be put on your HR file and contact your GP, also in writing.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 1, 2012)

Junglist said:


> @Puddy. I cannot remember which was signed but I will check tomorrow.


 
This is a bit procedural, but they should have issued you with a copy of what you signed. To have not done so is pretty lousy HR-practice.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 1, 2012)

Junglist said:


> Again, great advice. Thanks.
> 
> I will ask to retract my consent which I know it's gonna be a case of "It's too late, it's already signed" or "We've already sent it of". Either way I will contact my GP and let them know.


 
Not the point. Your consent is conditional, not absolute. If you wish to withdraw it, you don't ask them, you *tell* them that your consent is withdrawn, as you've been led to believe (by your boss) that the consent is a blanket consent to your medical records, rather than a consent for access to records relevant to your absences this year.


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## Hocus Eye. (Jul 1, 2012)

moonsi til said:


> Can employers really just ask you to sign a consent/waiver form and see all your medical records?
> 
> 
> I have been the manager where an employee was being taken down a constructive dismissal route due to multiple time off work and whilst there was supporting medical evidence such as diagnosis and confirmed medical visits we did not have their notes. I worked closely with HR and this was never suggested. This employee had breached the sickness policy over a period of years and ended up being subject to having to produce a medical note for any sickness so no self cert allowed.


 
You have the nerve to admit that you were involved in a process that could have lead to an employee taking your company to a tribunal for 'constructive dismissal' - that is making their life impossible so that they would resign. Also you reveal a negative attitude by describing what is repeat illness (with supporting medical evidence) as having "breached the sickness policy".  Being ill is not a matter of choice even if employers think it is.

I would not want to work anywhere that you managed.


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## equationgirl (Jul 1, 2012)

This is why I never self-certify where the absence is likely to more than a day or two. Yes, I know I can, but given that I have a disability which a previous boss has already tried to use to get me sacked, I ask the GP to formally sign me off. It's much harder for HR to argue with an official note - and despite what people think, it's not easy to get one.


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## equationgirl (Jul 1, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> You have the nerve to admit that you were involved in a process that could have lead to an employee taking your company to a tribunal for 'constructive dismissal' - that is making their life impossible so that they would resign. Also you reveal a negative attitude by describing what is repeat illness (with supporting medical evidence) as having "breached the sickness policy". Being ill is not a matter of choice even if employers think it is.
> 
> I would not want to work anywhere that you managed.


I understand what you're saying but that's a bit unfair - from the post I'm unsure if the poster means unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal for a start. We don't have the full facts for either the employer or employee.


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## equationgirl (Jul 1, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> This is a bit procedural, but they should have issued you with a copy of what you signed. *To have not done so is pretty lousy HR-practice*.


 
But sadly standard in my places I have worked - I tend to make a copy of anything I sign before handing it back, not trusting anyone else to do it for me.


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## Junglist (Jul 1, 2012)

I got the consent withdrawn but with a rather shitty "this looks like you've got something to hide, you're gonna have to speak to the manager about this".

This will no doubt result in bully boy tactics with threats of the trouble I could get in to, not that they can do anything for something I'm legally entitled to do.

p.s. I didn't get a copy of the form I signed but I will get one on my next shift. In fact I'll get a copy of everything.


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## equationgirl (Jul 1, 2012)

Junglist said:


> I got the consent withdrawn but with a rather shitty "this looks like you've got something to hide, you're gonna have to speak to the manager about this".
> 
> This will no doubt result in bully boy tactics with threats of the trouble I could get in to, not that they can do anything for something I'm legally entitled to do.
> 
> p.s. I didn't get a copy of the form I signed but I will get one on my next shift. In fact I'll get a copy of everything.


Standard bullying tactics. You have done nothing wrong, and the law is on your side.

Also, make sure you get copies of your employer's policy for sickness absence management and anything you've signed, and are you in a union?


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## moonsi til (Jul 1, 2012)

Hocus Eye. said:


> You have the nerve to admit that you were involved in a process that could have lead to an employee taking your company to a tribunal for 'constructive dismissal' - that is making their life impossible so that they would resign. Also you reveal a negative attitude by describing what is repeat illness (with supporting medical evidence) as having "breached the sickness policy". Being ill is not a matter of choice even if employers think it is.
> 
> I would not want to work anywhere that you managed.


 

Bloody hell steady on.....I think you need to go back and read my post and come back and apologise to me.


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## Hocus Eye. (Jul 1, 2012)

moonsi til said:


> Bloody hell steady on.....I think you need to go back and read my post and come back and apologise to me.


No thanks, I will stick by my post.


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## moonsi til (Jul 1, 2012)

OK...I'm now thinking I don't mean 'constructive dismissal. I mean 'capacity to perform job role'...my first post was intended to be supportive and to show from experience that a person whom I ended up managing had multiple significant periods off work over a period of years was never asked for access to their medical records despite how serious the issues were. Note the OP says a period of around 12 months. 

In the case I was involved with the decision taken by HR was to dismiss this person on the grounds that they were not in sufficient health to carry on in this employment. It was a complex case and the outcome was working in a different role. My point really is that to get to the stage of asking for medical evidence took ages (years) and I was suprised that employers can ask for access to medical records in what seems to me on information presented a very informal way.

Despite my mistake I think your attitude towards me has been un-warranted.


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## Junglist (Jul 1, 2012)

I've got the absence policy stuff, I'll also get a copy of my contract etc. I don't have a union I can contact but I'll also speak to ACAS to see what they can advise.


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## equationgirl (Jul 1, 2012)

Junglist said:


> I've got the absence policy stuff, I'll also get a copy of my contract etc. I don't have a union I can contact but I'll also speak to ACAS to see what they can advise.


Make sure they have followed their own policy, and check the criteria i.e 6 absences in 6 months or whatever that triggers them getting a report from your GP.

Do you have any medical condition lasting more than 12 months e.g. diabetes, arthritis, back problem, lupus, chronic kidney or heart disease etc? If so, so, such absences related to the medical condition should be treated differently.


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## Schmetterling (Jul 2, 2012)

moonsi til said:


> OK...I'm now thinking I don't mean 'constructive dismissal. I mean 'capacity to perform job role'...*my first post was intended to be supportive and to show from experience that a person whom I ended up managing had multiple significant periods off work over a period of years was never asked for access to their medical records* despite how serious the issues were. Note the OP says a period of around 12 months.
> 
> In the case I was involved with the decision taken by HR was to dismiss this person on the grounds that they were not in sufficient health to carry on in this employment. It was a complex case and the outcome was working in a different role. My point really is that to get to the stage of asking for medical evidence took ages (years) and I was suprised that employers can ask for access to medical records in what seems to me on information presented a very informal way.
> 
> Despite my mistake I think your attitude towards me has been un-warranted.


 
That's how I understood your post as well.


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## TopCat (Jul 2, 2012)

I would refuse an employer request as such as this.


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## Hocus Eye. (Jul 2, 2012)

moonsi til said:


> OK...I'm now thinking I don't mean 'constructive dismissal. I mean 'capacity to perform job role'...my first post was intended to be supportive and to show from experience that a person whom I ended up managing had multiple significant periods off work over a period of years was never asked for access to their medical records despite how serious the issues were. Note the OP says a period of around 12 months.
> 
> In the case I was involved with the decision taken by HR was to dismiss this person on the grounds that they were not in sufficient health to carry on in this employment. It was a complex case and the outcome was working in a different role. My point really is that to get to the stage of asking for medical evidence took ages (years) and I was suprised that employers can ask for access to medical records in what seems to me on information presented a very informal way.
> 
> Despite my mistake I think your attitude towards me has been un-warranted.


'Fair do's moons til. I get where you were coming from now. I was a union rep in a previous life so have seen this in close-up. Be careful with your terminology.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 2, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I would refuse an employer request as such as this.


 
Which they hate, because it forces them to spunk a couple of hundred quid on an independent medical which, if they use the results to sack you, will often get thrown out by a tribunal as not representing a proper picture of your health, just a "snapshot" of your health on the day you saw the independent medic.


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## TopCat (Jul 2, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Which they hate, because it forces them to spunk a couple of hundred quid on an independent medical which, if they use the results to sack you, will often get thrown out by a tribunal as not representing a proper picture of your health, just a "snapshot" of your health on the day you saw the independent medic.


My records are confidential and private and that's that.


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 2, 2012)

TopCat said:


> My records are confidential and private and that's that.


 
Yep, and that confidentiality is something you're perfectly entitled to maintain (as best the government lets you, anyway).


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