# I'm standing for Plaid



## 1927 (Apr 1, 2012)

It may come as a surprise to some of you, but after what I've been through the last 12 months I have massively changed the way I look at life and have just secured the signatures I need to stand in the local elections in the Vale of Glamorgan for Plaid Cymru.
I dont believe I have a hope of overturning the labour majority, but wtf, Give me 4 yrs and I'm having it.
Whatever happens it will be an experience, and the limited bit of canvassing Ive done already makes me think that it might even be possible this year.
Wish me luck folks, and if anyone wants to help with leafletting let me know!


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## Greebo (Apr 1, 2012)

1927 said:


> It may come as a surprise to some of you, but after what I've been through the last 12 months I have massively changed the way I look at life and have just secured the signatures I need to stand in the local elections in the Vale of Glamorgan for Plaid Cymru.
> <snip>


Good luck in your attempt to become part of the solution.


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## 1927 (Apr 1, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Good luck in your attempt to become part of the solution.


 

Thanks


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## Casually Red (Apr 1, 2012)

best of luck


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## Citizen66 (Apr 1, 2012)

You best pay a cursory glance over everything you've said on here. Because if you look like a threat, theres going to be lots of people routing through your bins.


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## bi0boy (Apr 1, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> You best pay a cursory glance over everything you've said on here. Because if you look like a threat, theres going to be lots of people routing through your bins.


 
innit. 12,000-post obsession with anarchist drugs site.


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## bendeus (Apr 1, 2012)

I'll be selling my story to the Wales on Sunday


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## poisondwarf (Apr 1, 2012)

Wow...good luck to you.


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## quimcunx (Apr 1, 2012)

Good luck to you, 1927.  

Remember who your friends are if you win...


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## mao (Apr 1, 2012)

the only Plaid I know is this:


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## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2012)

Have you got a battle bus?


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## Belushi (Apr 1, 2012)

Da Iawn 1927! Ymlaen!


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## Shirl (Apr 2, 2012)

Good luck. It's great that you sill have the energy and enthusiasm for this after the year you've had. I hope you do well and look forward to watching your political career


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## TitanSound (Apr 2, 2012)

I foresee a "sex for tickets" scandal.

Well, I would do if you'd hurry up and bone Ms Single Mum


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## wayward bob (Apr 2, 2012)

good on ya 1927


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

Shirl said:


> Good luck. It's great that you sill have the energy and enthusiasm for this after the year you've had. I hope you do well and look forward to watching your political career


 
Tbh its the last year that has given me the energy and enthusiasm to do this. I have always been an opionated so and so ( as I'm sure people realise from my posts on here), but going thru the family courts as a litigant in person and fighting my corner on my own has taught me I can prepare a good argument, can be diplomatic when required and that I can restrain myself when needed. I also realised that I am a more caring individual than even I gave myself credit for and that far from being the tory boy that many people believe me to be i am actually a social-ist,(as opposed to a socialist), if that make sense.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> innit. 12,000-post obsession with anarchist drugs site.


 
Seeing as the newly elected leader of the party is also a member, albeit has a post count in single figures, I'll defend my membership here!


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## badlands (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't know what to say


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

Do you still think we can't afford the NHS?


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

Santino said:


> Do you still think we can't afford the NHS?


 
I certainly think that we have to decide whether it should be an all encompassing free service or whether there are certain types of operation/drugs that we cant afford. As technologies improve, procedures that were not available 20 yrs ago become run of the mill, as time goes on the impact of these extra procedures will ultimately mean a larger and larger proportion of the nation's wealth will have to be spent on the NHS. To take it to an extreme, if a drug became available which would guarantee that everyone cold live to be 120 would it be something that should be available for free?


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I certainly think that we have to decide whether it should be an all encompassing free service or whether there are certain types of operation/drugs that we cant afford. As technologies improve, procedures that were not available 20 yrs ago become run of the mill, as time goes on the impact of these extra procedures will ultimately mean a larger and larger proportion of the nation's wealth will have to be spent on the NHS. To take it to an extreme, if a drug became available which would guarantee that everyone cold live to be 120 would it be something that should be available for free?


Will you answer the question?


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

Santino said:


> Will you answer the question?


 
I did.


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

Can we afford the NHS?


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## Lock&Light (Apr 2, 2012)

Santino said:


> Can we afford the NHS?


 
He did answer the question.


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## geminisnake (Apr 2, 2012)

Good luck with it mate. I hope you kick some Labour arse!! I would love to help if you weren't so far away!!


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

Lock&Light said:


> He did answer the question.


What was his answer?


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## Citizen66 (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> To take it to an extreme, if a drug became available which would guarantee that everyone cold live to be 120 would it be something that should be available for free?



No, life enhancing treatments should only be available to those of considerable private wealth.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

Santino said:


> What was his answer?


 
I think everyone else understood the answer.


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## bi0boy (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I certainly think that we have to decide whether it should be an all encompassing free service or whether there are certain types of operation/drugs that we cant afford. As technologies improve, procedures that were not available 20 yrs ago become run of the mill, as time goes on the impact of these extra procedures will ultimately mean a larger and larger proportion of the nation's wealth will have to be spent on the NHS. To take it to an extreme, if a drug became available which would guarantee that everyone cold live to be 120 would it be something that should be available for free?


 
What's cheaper, keyhole surgery or slicing someone open?


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I think everyone else understood the answer.


I didn't see an answer. I saw you saying that you think we have to decide whether to have the classic NHS or not - which is pretty much the question that you were being asked.


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I think everyone else understood the answer.


 
Q. Can we afford the NHS?

Your answer:
1. We need to think about whether it should be free.
2. Are there certain operations which shouldn't be free?
3. It will become more expensive in future.
4. Should some imaginary drugs be free?

Can we afford the NHS?


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## stethoscope (Apr 2, 2012)

Can anybody see any difference to Labour yet?


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## bi0boy (Apr 2, 2012)

Many people seem to be under the illusion that it is inevitable healthcare costs will rise out of reach of a politically justifiable NHS budget.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> What's cheaper, keyhole surgery or slicing someone open?


 
I didnt mean things like that.

lets take heart transplants as an example, and I'm not saying that they shouldnt be done, just using it as an example.

30 years ago or more they couldnt be done, now they are done everyday. If you had been budgeting for the next 20yrs of the NHS in 1980 the millions spent on heart transplants would not have been something you could foresee. Similarly, there are new ideas coming on stream all the time, new drugs that werent budgeted for etc. I think one day we will have to make a decision on whether new developments can be afforded or whether we stick with what we have, it is an unpalatbale decision to have to make I agree, but we have to face up to some big decisions sooner or later.


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I didnt mean things like that.
> 
> lets take heart transplants as an example, and I'm not saying that they shouldnt be done, just using it as an example.
> 
> 30 years ago or more they couldnt be done, now they are done everyday. If you had been budgeting for the next 20yrs of the NHS in 1980 the millions spent on heart transplants would not have been something you could foresee. Similarly, there are new ideas coming on stream all the time, new drugs that werent budgeted for etc. I think one day we will have to make a decision on whether new developments can be afforded or whether we stick with what we have, it is an unpalatbale decision to have to make I agree, but we have to face up to some big decisions sooner or later.


Can we afford the NHS?


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I didn't see an answer. I saw you saying that you think we have to decide whether to have the classic NHS or not - which is pretty much the question that you were being asked.


 
I was asked if we could afford the NHS, I described the NHS I thought we might have to settle for eventually.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

Santino said:


> Can we afford the NHS?


 
What is "the NHS" then I'll tell you whether I think we can afford it.


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## stethoscope (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I was asked if we could afford the NHS, I described the NHS I thought we might have to settle for eventually.


 
Master politician already


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I was asked if we could afford the NHS, I described the NHS I thought we might have to settle for eventually.


You didn't even do that. You just keep yammering on about difficult decisions.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I was asked if we could afford the NHS, I described the NHS I thought we might have to settle for eventually.


Do you honestly think that's what you did? Post above summed up why you didn't. What it looks like to me is a politician saying that decisions need to be made when they know that they've already made their mind up about the outcome of that decision. In this case the decision appears to be that no we cannot afford the NHS but you won't come out and say it. Is this the official plaid policy?


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## Citizen66 (Apr 2, 2012)

stephj said:


> Can anybody see any difference to Labour yet?



I assumed his "im actually a social-ist" to mean he was a new labourite.


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## stethoscope (Apr 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I assumed his "im actually a social-ist" to mean he was a new labourite.


 
Quite.


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## nogojones (Apr 2, 2012)

Not quite selling the left wing firebrand socialist party I was told Leane was bringing us. May as well vote Lib Dem.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Do you honestly think that's what you did? Post above summed up why you didn't. What it looks like to me is a politician saying that decisions need to be made when they know that they've already made their mind up about the outcome of that decision. In this case the decision appears to be that no we cannot afford the NHS but you won't come out and say it. Is this the official plaid policy?


 
I havent come to any conclusions about what we can or cannot afford in future.
Official policy is irrelevant, I'm not some lap dog who will adopt the official line of every issue. I merely gave my personal opinion on what I think the future holds.

Thankfully I'll never be in a position where I have to make such decisions anyway.


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

Wriggle wriggle.


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## dessiato (Apr 2, 2012)

Good luck with your campaign. I'll not vote for you though.






(I don't live in Wales,)


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## Lock&Light (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Do you honestly think that's what you did? Post above summed up why you didn't. What it looks like to me is a politician saying that decisions need to be made when they know that they've already made their mind up about the outcome of that decision. In this case the decision appears to be that no we cannot afford the NHS but you won't come out and say it. Is this the official plaid policy?


 
Do you think that any version of the NHS has to comprise everything that science can achieve no matter what it costs?


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

Lock&Light said:


> Do you think that any version of the NHS has to comprise everything that science can achieve no matter what it costs?


 
Thank you for understanding where I am coming from!


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

Santino said:


> Wriggle wriggle.


 
How am I wriggling? I have clearly stated my opinion on what I think the future holds, unpalatable as it may be.


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## bi0boy (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> Thankfully I'll never be in a position where I have to make such decisions anyway.


 
That's what Vince Cable used to say to himself. Then he found himself in power, he changed his opinions.

If you're standing for election you need to make it clear how you would act if you were in such a position.


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## Lock&Light (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> Thank you for understanding where I am coming from!


 
I'm an SNP supporter so we are brothers-in-arms.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> Thank you for understanding where I am coming from!


But this is totally and utterly irrelevant to the question of whether you think we can afford the NHS or not. No one has defined the NHS as everything ever, every piece of medical advance and technology ever. You're not being asked if we can afford everything ever. We have a really exisiting NHS now - do you think we can afford it, that really existing NHS? That's the question.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

nogojones said:


> Not quite selling the left wing firebrand socialist party I was told Leane was bringing us. May as well vote Lib Dem.


 
Do you honestly believe that everbody within Plaid is an advocate of Leanne Wood's stance on every single issue?


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> But is totally and utterly irrelevant to the question of do you think we can afford the NHS or not? No one has defined the NHS as everything ever, every piece of medical advance and technology ever. We have a really exisiting NHS now - do you think we can afford it, that really existing NHS? That's the question.


 
At last even you can see to a point where I am coming from. The NHS as we have it now, today, yes I think we can and should afford it. Can we afford to procure every single new advance in future? I doubt it!


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2012)

One other thing, if you're going into politics then you need to understand the art of making temporary alliances - don't just jump into bed with the first bigot who comes along because he agrees with you on a particular point (which he himself has misunderstood). Not a good method to increase your credibility.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> But this is totally and utterly irrelevant to the question of whether you think we can afford the NHS or not. No one has defined the NHS as everything ever, every piece of medical advance and technology ever. You're not being asked if we can afford everything ever. We have a really exisiting NHS now - do you think we can afford it, that really existing NHS? That's the question.


 
No one has defined the NHS for me full stop, although I have asked the question.


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## Lock&Light (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> Do you honestly believe that everbody within Plaid is an advocate of Leanne Wood's stance on every single issue?


 
There's a great deal of wooly thinking goes on on these boards and the worst offenders are often the ones who accuse others of it.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> One other thing, if you're going into politics then you need to understand the art of making temporary alliances - don't just jump into bed with the first bigot who comes along because he agrees with you on a particular point (which he himself has misunderstood). Not a good method to increase your credibility.


 
I didnt jump into bed with him, its just that he is the only person who can grasp the point I am trying to make. And i think he understood very well.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> At last even you can see to a point where I am coming from. The NHS as we have it now, today, yes I think we can and should afford it. Can we afford to procure every single new advance in future? I doubt it!


No one asked you that though! You' have now answered IMO the question that was asked though. I assume that from the question being asked that you used to think different? If so, what's changed your mind?


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## Lock&Light (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> One other thing, if you're going into politics then you need to understand the art of making temporary alliances - don't just jump into bed with the first bigot who comes along because he agrees with you on a particular point (which he himself has misunderstood). Not a good method to increase your credibility.


 
You are such a fool, butchers. You always were but you seem to have slid downhill a lot in recent years.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I didnt jump into bed with him, its just that he is the only person who can grasp the point I am trying to make. And i think he understood very well.


_Everyone_ understood it. That's why they were pointing out that it wasn't an answer to the question that you were asked.


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## 1927 (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> No one asked you that though! You' have now answered IMO the question that was asked though. I assume that from the question being asked that you used to think different? If so, what's changed your mind?


 
As far as I remember I have always held the same opinion, so i didnt really understand the reason for the question. I know I held the same opinion in 1998 when I went on a golf trip with some GP friends and we discussed the issue one evening.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 2, 2012)

Lock&Light said:


> I'm an SNP supporter so we are brothers-in-arms.



I thought you lived in Holland?


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## Santino (Apr 2, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think all childless people who could benefit from IVF should have the opportunity to give it a go, not just those with the cash to pay for it.


 


1927 said:


> I'd rather see the money spent on people who were ill.


 


spanglechick said:


> And if we as a society can afford to do both?


 


1927 said:


> But we can't.


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## Lock&Light (Apr 2, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I thought you lived in Holland?


 
You know what thought did. Stuck a feather up its arse and thought a hen would grow.


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## Citizen66 (Apr 2, 2012)

Lock&Light said:


> You know what thought did. Stuck a feather up its arse and thought a hen would grow.



So you're back in Scotland then?


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## fractionMan (Apr 2, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> One other thing, if you're going into politics then you need to understand the art of making temporary alliances - don't just jump into bed with the first bigot who comes along because he agrees with you on a particular point (which he himself has misunderstood). Not a good method to increase your credibility.


 
This is top advice.  You'd be wise to heed it OP.


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## nogojones (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> Do you honestly believe that everbody within Plaid is an advocate of Leanne Wood's stance on every single issue?


 
Well if you're not going to stand for anything different to the Lib Dems, I'm not gonna get off my arse to vote for you. Ta ra


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## nogojones (Apr 2, 2012)

People voted for the Lib Dems last time round as a protest against cons/ labour. You may get the benefit of the protest vote once, but you behave the same and you'll get treated like them cunts.


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## littlebabyjesus (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> I certainly think that we have to decide whether it should be an all encompassing free service or whether there are certain types of operation/drugs that we cant afford. As technologies improve, procedures that were not available 20 yrs ago become run of the mill, as time goes on the impact of these extra procedures will ultimately mean a larger and larger proportion of the nation's wealth will have to be spent on the NHS. To take it to an extreme, if a drug became available which would guarantee that everyone cold live to be 120 would it be something that should be available for free?


What proportion of the 'nation's wealth' do you think it would be just to spend on the NHS, then? It's currently about 7 %. What would be the acceptable limit?

What worries me about this post is not so much that it says the NHS has to ration its services. It always has done and always will, just like all other health care systems, but the suggestion that it should no longer be a service that people can reasonably rely on to provide for their health care needs, that certain kinds of health problems should not be treated.


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## bendeus (Apr 2, 2012)

1927 said:


> Seeing as the newly elected leader of the party is also a member, albeit has a post count in single figures, I'll defend my membership here!


 
Well, well well! *Waves at Leanne*


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## 1927 (Apr 3, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What proportion of the 'nation's wealth' do you think it would be just to spend on the NHS, then? It's currently about 7 %. What would be the acceptable limit?
> 
> What worries me about this post is not so much that it says the NHS has to ration its services. It always has done and always will, just like all other health care systems, but the suggestion that it should no longer be a service that people can reasonably rely on to provide for their health care needs, that certain kinds of health problems should not be treated.


 
You havent really grasped what local politics is about have you?


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## littlebabyjesus (Apr 3, 2012)

1927 said:


> You havent really grasped what local politics is about have you?


You don't have hospitals in your area?

I'd think that talking about the rising costs of the NHS and the necessity to start charging for certain kinds of treatments is something to avoid. 'We can't afford it' is tory-cuts-speak.


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## nogojones (Apr 3, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You don't have hospitals in your area?
> 
> .


 
It's Barry. They don't need hospitals. They have amusement arcades.


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## Karac (Apr 4, 2012)

Congratulations 1927 never thought you were that way inclined
Good luck in the vale you may need it
I thought Plaids policy on the NHS is quite clear for a fully funded at the point of need National Health Service  - no private involvement no PFI.
Which I totally agree with


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## Karac (Apr 4, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What proportion of the 'nation's wealth' do you think it would be just to spend on the NHS, then? It's currently about 7 %. What would be the acceptable limit?
> 
> What worries me about this post is not so much that it says the NHS has to ration its services. It always has done and always will, just like all other health care systems, but the suggestion that it should no longer be a service that people can reasonably rely on to provide for their health care needs, that certain kinds of health problems should not be treated.


Whats the acceptable limit?-i dont know but probably a lot more than 7%
But id much rather a Public Health System-its fairer and more efficient.
As you say it will always ration its services and always will do -people live longer and new drugs come on line-what we need to do its make sure its on the basis of clinical need not how rich you are.
Id increase the involvement of NICE who look into the REAL benefits of new treatments not the frontpage of the Daily Mail.
Personally id greatly increase the focus on healthy eating-largely fruit and veg,small amounts of meat and dairy if any


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## jannerboyuk (May 4, 2012)

1927 said:


> It may come as a surprise to some of you, but after what I've been through the last 12 months I have massively changed the way I look at life and have just secured the signatures I need to stand in the local elections in the Vale of Glamorgan for Plaid Cymru.
> I dont believe I have a hope of overturning the labour majority, but wtf, Give me 4 yrs and I'm having it.
> Whatever happens it will be an experience, and the limited bit of canvassing Ive done already makes me think that it might even be possible this year.
> Wish me luck folks, and if anyone wants to help with leafletting let me know!


wow labour did quite well in the vale. how did you go?


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## PlaidDragon (May 7, 2012)

bendeus said:


> Well, well well! *Waves at Leanne*


 
If she has an account here that's amazing. Also, I love you Leanne. Just sayin'.


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