# Ethnic Composition of Brixton...



## Thimble Queen (May 26, 2008)

Some boy in the library made a stupid joke at my boyfriend about how he'd be the only white man in brixton, grrrr!

There was a link posted recently maybe by crispy, with this information but i cant find it!

Please help I want to tell the bigot to shut up! x x


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

You talking about the 2001 census at http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...nsusInformation/BrixtonHillWardDataTables.htm for Brixton Hill, or http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...ormation/LambethBoroughCensus2001Data0505.htm for Lambeth generally?

It's on page 2 for Brixton Hill, or you have to dig a bit for "Sex and age by ethnic group" in the Lambeth one.

Brixton Hill, "White British" 51.2%

Only just a majority.  That's taking overall, and certainly specific areas are going to be majority non-White British.

Lambeth, "White British" 131,939 (49.5%) out of 266,187, leaving 134,248 (50.5%) of "everything else".

Using simple 'first to 50%' statistics, it shows that "White British" is a minority in Brixton.


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## trashpony (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> You talking about the 2001 census at http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...nsusInformation/BrixtonHillWardDataTables.htm for Brixton Hill, or http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...ormation/LambethBoroughCensus2001Data0505.htm for Lambeth generally?
> 
> It's on page 2 for Brixton Hill, or you have to dig a bit for "Sex and age by ethnic group" in the Lambeth one.
> 
> ...



If nearly 50% of Lambeth's population are white british people, then they are the majority of the population, not the minority. You utter tool.


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## Crispy (May 27, 2008)

Here's what I posted before:


Crispy said:


> Here, I've done the work for you. This data is from the 2001 census and includes the 5 central Brixton wards (Coldharbour,Tulse Hill,Ferndale,Herne Hill,Brixton Hill)
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

trashpony said:


> If nearly 50% of Lambeth's population are white british people, then they are the majority of the population, not the minority. You utter tool.



Everything else except White British is more than 50% so they're the majority when they're all added together.

On a traffic light, 66% of the lights are not red.  Just because the three lights are equally represented doesn't make any of them a majority.

I don't think the breakdown is any more detailed but there must be areas of Brixton where 'White British' is a tiny minority - although, of course, there are areas where it will be a clear majority.

You can't add 'White Irish' to the British percentage because, if they were British, they'd define themselves as 'White British'.  Just because they're White it doesn't make them automatically British any more than it would someone from Poland or Italy just because they hapen to live here.


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## Athos (May 27, 2008)

Do you really need statistics?  Why not just tell him to 'FUCK OFF!'?


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## happyshopper (May 27, 2008)

Wikipedia says "A majority, also known as a simple majority in the U.S., is a subset of a group that is more than half of the entire group. This should not be confused with a plurality, which is a subset having the largest number of parts. A plurality is not necessarily a majority, as the largest subset may be less than half of the entire group."

So, at the time of the census, "White British" constituted a plurality but not a majority. However, the original post referred to someone being the only "white man" in Brixton, not the only "white Briton". Leaving the sexism on one side, it is clear from these 2001 figures that the majority of people in Brixton were white. My guess is that by now the proportion is a bit higher.


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## newbie (May 27, 2008)

Athos said:


> Do you really need statistics?  Why not just tell him to 'FUCK OFF!'?



what on earth would be the point.  This pointless taunt has been trotted out for decades by know-nothings and will continue for the rest of ever.  Like any other obvious troll, it's not worth stressing about, or responding to.


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## trashpony (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Everything else except White British is more than 50% so they're the majority when they're all added together.



They're the majority when compared to all other groups. In any case, the OP didn't ask about British, she only asked about race. You were the one who brought the British bit into it.


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## Oswaldtwistle (May 27, 2008)

EDIT: Oh ignore me- crispy has already done the maths for us!!


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## playghirl (May 27, 2008)

I am one of the 6352 white other!!!!!


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

trashpony said:


> You were the one who brought the British bit into it.



It's a pity we can't break it down to Britain's component parts.  I'm sure "White English" is even less.


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## quimcunx (May 27, 2008)

It is, I was surprised how many scottish people there are here.

And why is it a pity? So we could put everyone into little enclaves, turning Brixton into a little Venn diagram of nationalities and skin shades?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Papingo said:


> So we could put everyone into little enclaves, turning Brixton into a little Venn diagram of nationalities and skin shades?



I'm just curious as to what the % of people classing themselves as 'English' are, thats all.

I'm a minority in myself.  I grew up in Somerset, and would class myself as 'Wessex' which, I dare say, aren't well represented around these parts.  I don't have anywhere except 'Other' to put that on forms.

By the way, Brixton is the "unofficial capital of the Jamaican, African British and Caribbean community of London" apparently.


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## zenie (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I'm just curious as to what the % of people classing themselves as 'English' are, thats all.


 
But that definition doesn't affect what race you are? 



ajdown said:


> I'm a minority in myself. I grew up in Somerset, and would class myself as 'Wessex' which, I dare say, aren't well represented around these parts. I don't have anywhere except 'Other' to put that on forms.


 
ha, do you have to try so hard to be different and marginalised or something? 



ajdown said:


> By the way, Brixton is the "unofficial capital of the Jamaican, African British and Caribbean community of London" apparently.


 
Where's that quote from then?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

zenie said:


> Where's that quote from then?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brixton

Yeah, I'm marginalised.  The only smell of grass round these parts isn't the kind of grass I'm used to


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## teuchter (May 27, 2008)

I seem to remember a recent survey in the Guardian or something that suggested Brixton was one of the most ethnically diverse parts of London, whilst neighbouring Herne Hill was the least.


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## d.a.s.h (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> By the way, Brixton is the "unofficial capital of the Jamaican, African British and Caribbean community of London" apparently.



What a silly quote. Peckham is likely to have a considerably higher proportion of Africans living in it than Brixton. Plus listing Jamaican and Caribbean together is redundant.


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## quimcunx (May 27, 2008)

teuchter said:


> I seem to remember a recent survey in the Guardian or something that suggested Brixton was one of the most ethnically diverse parts of London, whilst neighbouring Herne Hill was the least.



There was something doing the rounds of the papers, possibly when the last census info was published that said Tottenham Hale won with 109 nationalities.  Unfortunately I missed the actual article so didn't see where Brixton came.  I'd imagine quite high up the list.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

trashpony said:


> They're the majority when compared to all other groups. In any case, the OP didn't ask about British, she only asked about race. You were the one who brought the British bit into it.




Quelle surprise 

Oh fuck, we'll all be speaking French next


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## Blagsta (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Everything else except White British is more than 50% so they're the majority when they're all added together.
> 
> On a traffic light, 66% of the lights are not red.  Just because the three lights are equally represented doesn't make any of them a majority.
> 
> ...




Not the sharpest tool in the box are you?


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## innit (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Yeah, I'm marginalised.



Like fuck you are.




			
				ajdown said:
			
		

> The only smell of grass round these parts isn't the kind of grass I'm used to



What's that got to do with anything?


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## teuchter (May 27, 2008)

Some interesting maps here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/graphic/0,5812,1395106,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/graphic/0,5812,1395103,00.html




This one is curious:







What's with the hotspot of "other religions" in North-west London?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

innit said:


> What's that got to do with anything?



It's called 'humour'.  You might like to try it some day.


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## innit (May 27, 2008)

teuchter said:


> What's with the hotspot of "other religions" in North-west London?



Wembley and Golders Green??


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## innit (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> It's called 'humour'.  You might like to try it some day.



I can't see how it relates to your imagined marginalisation, even humorously


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## boohoo (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I don't think the breakdown is any more detailed but there must be areas of Brixton where 'White British' is a tiny minority - although, of course, there are areas where it will be a clear majority.



I wouldn't say tiny majority but I expect you are right. But to what extent does anyone need to go into loads of details where people are the majority and minority? 

As an anglo-american, I am a minority. 



ajdown said:


> You can't add 'White Irish' to the British percentage because, if they were British, they'd define themselves as 'White British'.  Just because they're White it doesn't make them automatically British any more than it would someone from Poland or Italy just because they hapen to live here.



White Irish would be most offended to be called British. They use to be the biggest minority in lambeth during the eighties.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> It's called 'humour'.  You might like to try it some day.




I think it's well humorous, the way you're virtually guaranteed to pop up on any race, ethnic or religious thread


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## boohoo (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> Some boy in the library made a stupid joke at my boyfriend about how he'd be the only white man in brixton, grrrr!



I once got ask why I was so pale... cos I'm white perhaps?


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## teuchter (May 27, 2008)

innit said:


> Wembley and Golders Green??



There's a separate map showing Jewish populations.


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I'm just curious as to what the % of people classing themselves as 'English' are, thats all.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> I have brown skin and I class my self as English does that confuse you?



Probably.  Let me think about it a bit more.


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

Why do you have to go on a thread and hijack it.

It was a simple question and answer thread not for a place for your off key agenda.

If you want to debate this stuff start your own thread or better yet bugger off to the daily mail web site.


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## zenie (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> Why do you have to go on a thread and hijack it.
> 
> It was a simple question and answer thread not for a place for your off key agenda.
> 
> If you want to debate this stuff start your own thread or better yet bugger off to the daily mail web site.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Probably.  Let me think about it a bit more.



She's English. Suck it up.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> Why do you have to go on a thread and hijack it.
> 
> It was a simple question and answer thread not for a place for your off key agenda.
> 
> If you want to debate this stuff start your own thread or better yet bugger off to the daily mail web site.



You know, I could say exactly the same thing for everyone who disagrees with something I post, or tries to put their own skewed agenda into something.

Just because you disagree with me does not automatically make you right and me wrong, you know.

I even answered your question in the first place with the figures you were asking for.  The fact that they didn't quite give you the answer you were looking for isn't my fault.


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## Orang Utan (May 27, 2008)

I don't know what I am - I don't like to call myself White British though, or even English. It's a bit meaningless. I is a ginger.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> You know, I could say exactly the same thing for everyone who disagrees with something I post, or tries to put their own skewed agenda into something.
> 
> Just because you disagree with me does not automatically make you right and me wrong, you know.
> 
> I even answered your question in the first place with the figures you were asking for.  The fact that they didn't quite give you the answer you were looking for isn't my fault.



You need to have a nice cup of tea and sit down here


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I even answered your question in the first place with the figures you were asking for.  The fact that they didn't quite give you the answer you were looking for isn't my fault.



How do you know what she was looking for. You were the one who started banging on about white British majorities.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> You need to have a nice cup of tea and sit down here



I don't drink tea.

Damn your english stereotyping!


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> How do you know what she was looking for. You were the one who started banging on about white British majorities.



The question was for population statistics, and the inference was to be able to show someone complaining that being White British was a minority around the Brixton area - which, in fact, with 49.5% against the 50.5% of 'everything else' is true, given the quote from Wikipedia defining 'simple majority' and 'compound majority', which was supported by my traffic light quote.

I read the post, and responded appropriately.  That's all.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I don't drink tea.
> 
> Damn your english stereotyping!



Why have you assumed that I'm English


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

Fuck wit! 

My question was not about majorities it was about ethnic compostion.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Why have you assumed that I'm English



Not you, me.


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## DotCommunist (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> You need to have a nice cup of tea and sit down here



or alternately he can fuck off back to the Sims world he came from.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> My question was not about majorities it was about ethnic compostion.


Wouldn't they have to be dead before you can compost them though?


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> or alternately he can fuck off back to the Sims world he came from.



That'd be preferable, yep.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> or alternately he can fuck off back to the Sims world he came from.



I don't play any more actually, haven't been an active player for some time now.  Plus, it's closing down in August.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> The question was for population statistics, and the inference was to be able to show someone complaining that being White British was a minority around the Brixton area - which, in fact, with 49.5% against the 50.5% of 'everything else' is true, given the quote from Wikipedia defining 'simple majority' and 'compound majority', which was supported by my traffic light quote.
> 
> I read the post, and responded appropriately.  That's all.



Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it?


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Wouldn't they have to be dead before you can compost them though?



Back out in the open again.

Or are you going to say that you were being 'humorous'?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Back out in the open again.
> 
> Or are you going to say that you were being 'humorous'?



A pun on the misspelling of 'composition', yes funny.


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

According to the figures, white people are in a majority in Brixton.

You cant lump all the other people togther in one group just because they are not white.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> According to the figures, white people are in a majority in Brixton.
> 
> You cant lump all the other people togther in one group just because they are not white.



... but you can lump all the ethnic groups that _are _white - but not necessarily English -  together and call it a majority?


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## DotCommunist (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I don't play any more actually, haven't been an active player for some time now.  Plus, it's closing down in August.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Actually my hair is darker than that.


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## zenie (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> The question was for population statistics, and the inference was to be able to show someone complaining that being White British was a minority around the Brixton area - which, in fact, with 49.5% against the 50.5% of 'everything else' is true, given the quote from Wikipedia defining 'simple majority' and 'compound majority', which was supported by my traffic light quote.
> 
> I read the post, and responded appropriately. That's all.


 

You read the post yet you responded incorrectly 

The OP didn't ask about 'British white' you just made that up! 

Similarly she mentioned the word 'bigot' maybe your ears pricked up there?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

zenie said:


> Similarly she mentioned the word 'bigot' maybe your ears pricked up there?



_"A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own"_

I'm seeing a lot of that around here, thrown at me.


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

I never asked anything about 'white british' people just white people!

The boy in the library did not say you'll be the only 'white british' man in Brixton. 

He said you'll be the only 'white' man in brixton. 

Which is why for the purposes of the question white people have been put together in a group.


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## zenie (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> _"A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own"_
> 
> I'm seeing a lot of that around here, thrown at me.


 
Nice deflection, you do come out with such right wing shit it's hardly surprising.




			
				ajdown said:
			
		

> ... but you can lump all the ethnic groups that _are _white - but not necessarily English - together and call it a majority?


 
Yeh, that's the way it works? Do you want me to draw a diagram, seeing as you don't seem to comprehend what people put in words?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> I never asked anything about 'white british' people just white people!
> 
> The boy in the library did not say you'll be the only 'white british' man in Brixton.
> 
> ...



My guess is that he didn't understand the difference between "White British" and "White, other".


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> My guess is that he didn't understand the difference between "White British" and "White, other".



So what?


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## zenie (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> My guess is that he didn't understand the difference between "White British" and "White, other".


 
What difference does that make, the guy was still wrong?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

zenie said:


> Do you want me to draw a diagram, seeing as you don't seem to comprehend what people put in words?



No, it doesn't matter that much.

Why do people here insist on labelling me of one particular political persuasion when I couldn't give a crap about politics or 'activism'?  Aren't I allowed to be an independent thinker?


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> No, it doesn't matter that much.
> 
> Why do people here insist on labelling me of one particular political persuasion when I couldn't give a crap about politics or 'activism'?  Aren't I allowed to be an independent thinker?




(((ajdown)))


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## zenie (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> No, it doesn't matter that much.
> 
> Why do people here insist on labelling me of one particular political persuasion when I couldn't give a crap about politics or 'activism'? Aren't I allowed to be an independent thinker?


 
If it doesn't matter why are you still posting bile? 

Your 'views' are right wing, nothing wrong with people saying that. Don't like it fuck off!


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## Thora (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> My guess is that he didn't understand the difference between "White British" and "White, other".



No, he probably just meant "white".  White British, white Irish, white Australians, white Polish etc.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

zenie said:


> What difference does that make, the guy was still wrong?



Since he's not the one here being attacked, probably not a lot.


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> (((ajdown)))


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

zenie said:


> If it doesn't matter why are you still posting bile?
> 
> Your 'views' are right wing, nothing wrong with people saying that. Don't like it fuck off!



It's called _right _for a reason...


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## Orang Utan (May 27, 2008)

My Dad's a white Brit who was born in New Zealand.
My Mum's a white Scot who was born in England.
My sis is a black Brit born in London, but also identifies as a Yorkshirewoman.
My younger brother is black and English.
My twin brother is a white Yorkshireman born in Leeds.
I was, of course, also born in Leeds, but do not consider myself a Yorkshireman, but a Londoner.
It's about more than just ethnicity or race. 
However, most of us only identify ourselves with a particular ethnicity or race when asked to on stupid forms.


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## zenie (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> It's called _right _for a reason...


 

Is it? What reason's that then?


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Since he's not the one here being attacked, probably not a lot.



Ajdown loves to play the victim. 

It validates his existence.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 27, 2008)

zenie said:


> Is it? What reason's that then?





> The term originates from the French Revolution, when liberal deputies from the Third Estate generally sat to the left of the president's chair, a habit which began in the Estates General of 1789. The nobility, members of the Second Estate, generally sat to the right. In the successive legislative assemblies, monarchists who supported the Ancien Régime were commonly referred to as rightists because they sat on the right side. It is still the tradition in the French National Assembly for the representatives to be seated left-to-right (relative to the Assembly president) according to their political alignment.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Orang Utan said:


> However, most of us only identify ourselves with a particular ethnicity or race when asked to on stupid forms.



That is true.  I really hate those kinda things, especially when you get the feeling that ticking 'White British' is going to negatively affect your chances in the diversity stakes.


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## El Jefe (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> It's called _right _for a reason...



That reason being?


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## Orang Utan (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> That is true.  I really hate those kinda things, especially when you get the feeling that ticking 'White British' is going to negatively affect your chances in the diversity stakes.


Eh? In what way?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> Ajdown loves to play the victim.
> 
> It validates his existence.



Not really, if you think that posting and 'scoring points' on a message forum is the sole highlight of my day, then you're very sadly mistaken.  Face it, apart from a few (seemingly unpopular) viewpoints, you haven't got a clue about probably 99.999% of my existance - and you'd probably be quite surprised to find out there were some things we had in common.  I doubt if it would be limited just to you too.

Would you rather it was just a circle-jerk of like minded individuals all agreeing blindly with everything that's said?  Woudln't that get rather boring?


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## Thora (May 27, 2008)

Orang Utan said:


> Eh? In what way?



Cos they'll give the non-whites all the jobs and flats and that


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Would you rather it was just a circle-jerk of like minded individuals all agreeing blindly with everything that's said?  Woudln't that get rather boring?




I'd rather have my question answered without some baffoon spouting shite all over the thread.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Orang Utan said:


> Eh? In what way?



Why should it matter what colour you are anyway on these forms?

When going for a job, it should be based entirely on your skills and experience, not an unqualified minority ethnicity person getting preference over a qualified majority ethnicity person because they aren't "represented in the workforce enough"?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> I'd rather have my question answered without some baffoon spouting shite all over the thread.



Yeah, there's a lot of them around isn't there.


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## DotCommunist (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> That is true.  I really hate those kinda things, especially when you get the feeling that ticking 'White British' is going to negatively affect your chances in the diversity stakes.



There is no conspiracy to keep the white working brit down AJ. You have a persecution complex.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> There is no conspiracy to keep the white working brit down AJ. You have a persecution complex.



"Working" or "Working Class"?


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Why should it matter what colour you are anyway on these forms?
> 
> When going for a job, it should be based entirely on your skills and experience, not an unqualified minority ethnicity person getting preference over a qualified majority ethnicity person because they aren't "represented in the workforce enough"?




Thats not the way it works and you know that. 

If not then you are very naive.

We all know what the truth is......



TROLL!


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## quimcunx (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Why should it matter what colour you are anyway on these forms?
> 
> When going for a job, it should be based entirely on your skills and experience, not an unqualified minority ethnicity person getting preference over a qualified majority ethnicity person because they aren't "represented in the workforce enough"?



Idiot. the reason these forms exist is because recruiters binned CVs with 'foreign' sounding names without looking at qualifications.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Why should it matter what colour you are anyway on these forms?
> 
> When going for a job, it should be based entirely on your skills and experience, not an unqualified minority ethnicity person getting preference over a qualified majority ethnicity person because they aren't "represented in the workforce enough"?



That would be positive discrimination and therefore illegal. Are you suggesting much of that goes on? And if so, have you got any evidence to back it up?


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## Crispy (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Back out in the open again.
> 
> Or are you going to say that you were being 'humorous'?



Shouldn't that be hummus?


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## Orang Utan (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Why should it matter what colour you are anyway on these forms?
> 
> When going for a job, it should be based entirely on your skills and experience, not an unqualified minority ethnicity person getting preference over a qualified majority ethnicity person because they aren't "represented in the workforce enough"?



The forms you fill in are not used for 'positive discrimination' though, but for stats. I don't know how useful they are though, but they are not used to decide  who to give jobs to.


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## DotCommunist (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> "Working" or "Working Class"?



class being tied directly personal capital these days means that cultural habits aside, just how much you earn defines class, not your job or upbringing.


But thats irrelevant to the subject in hand. You have, on this thread and others expressed the views that show quite clearly you feel assailed and marginalised by 'ethnic minorities'


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Shouldn't that be hummus?



Hummus? That's









foreign 







isn't it?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Orang Utan said:


> I don't know how useful they are though, but they are not used to decide  who to give jobs to.



I can't figure out what possible benefit they might be to anyone or anything either, except giving some executive some figures to take to a board meeting.


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## DotCommunist (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Hummus? That's
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Halal even?


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> This thread has long since jumped the shark.
> 
> Nice trolling guys.  Feel free to carry on talking but I won't be taking part.





Remember this post ajdown?? 

Take your own advice.


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Hummus? That's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> Remember this post ajdown??
> 
> Take your own advice.



So you're one of those people that stalks from one thread to another cross-referencing totally irrelevant issues to score points?


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## Crispy (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Hummus? That's
> foreign
> isn't it?


Compost - hummus..... geddit? 

PS: enough sniping. behave, everyone.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Compost - hummus..... geddit?



Actually I quite like Houmus, it's nice to dip Doritos into.


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## Thimble Queen (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> So you're one of those people that stalks from one thread to another cross-referencing totally irrelevant issues to score points?



No you were banging on about foreigners and brixton in that thread too.


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## Blagsta (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> _"A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own"_
> 
> I'm seeing a lot of that around here, thrown at me.



Hmmmmm, wonder why?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Blagsta said:


> Hmmmmm, wonder why?



I mean people being totally guilty of what they're accusing me of.


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## Blagsta (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I mean people being totally guilty of what they're accusing me of.



Come again?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

I'm being accused of being 'intolerant' - but those doing the accusing are in themselves being intolerant of my views.

My views are not wrong, they are not really offensive when you stop to think about it, they are not illegal.  Just different.  That's all.  Perfectly valid, just opposing viewpoints, to what seems to be the general tone round here.

In fact, I could quite easily class some of the views put forward in certain threads by certain posters incredibly offensive _to me_ - and although I may choose to debate them on that point, at the end of the day, the view is their choice, that's all.

People attribute it to a particular political viewpoint, or reading a particular newspaper, when in fact it's neither.  It's just me.


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## Belushi (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I'm being accused of being 'intolerant' - but those doing the accusing are in themselves being intolerant of my views.



OMG what a genius defence! no ones tried that line around here before...


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

Ajdown, your views might be illegal if you treat people less favourably on the basis of them, in terms of employment, goods and services.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Belushi said:


> OMG what a genius defence! no ones tried that line around here before...



... except if it were a 'defence' then it would follow that I was actually guilty of something, and I was trying to get out of it.

So quite what others might have 'done before' is irrelevant, the fact is that it's true, and everyone has degrees of intolerance within themselves whether they like it or not.


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## Belushi (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Why should it matter what colour you are anyway on these forms?
> 
> When going for a job, it should be based entirely on your skills and experience, not an unqualified minority ethnicity person getting preference over a qualified majority ethnicity person because they aren't "represented in the workforce enough"?



When you apply for a job the monitoring form is separated from the application before the app's are forwarded to the selection panel - the panel will have no idea of whats on the monitoring form.

The reason for the form is for organisations to monitor their recruitment procedures to make sure they're fair - that applicants arent being unfairly discriminated against on grounds of race, gender etc.

In France its illegal to ask these questions, leading to a situation where its suspected that racial discrimination in recruitment occurs on a vast scale but lack of information makes it much more difficult to judge.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Belushi said:


> The reason for the form is for organisations to monitor their recruitment procedures to make sure they're fair - that applicants arent being unfairly discriminated against on grounds of race, gender etc.



Unless the form says "straight white males, married, with 2 kids, only need apply" then how are people discriminated against?

I accept that there are some jobs where a particular gender, faith background or whatever may be required (I don't remember the particular law or exemption but it's acceptable where there is a demonstratable need for it).

Maybe there are certain 'groups' not 'equally represented' in a workforce - but that's more likely to simply be they aren't interested, or qualified, or capable, of that job rather than the job being 'discriminating against them'.

After all, many jobs state 'graduates required' when having a degree in something entirely irrelevant to the job might as well be not needing a degree at all - totally discriminatory when it's not a demostratable need for the job, but it excludes otherwise perfectly qualified and capable people of applying.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

You'll find fewer and fewer job adverts actually specify degree requirements unless they can demonstrate that those are actually required. Age discrimination y'see.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> You'll find fewer and fewer job adverts actually specify degree requirements unless they can demonstrate that those are actually required. Age discrimination y'see.



Maybe I'm setting my sights too low then if they're jobs that a student could do.


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## Belushi (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Unless the form says "straight white males, married, with 2 kids, only need apply" then how are people discriminated against?



A few examples of the top of my head. Applicants with Muslim names being automatically being binned, no women being invited to interviews despite being as qualifies and experienced as men, applications where the name of the school is that of a Saint being automatically binned (used to happen in Scotland a lot) theres a million and one ways to discriminate against applicants before you've even met them.

Equal Op's forms are a tool to monitor the recruitment process to help unsure these kind of practices dont go on.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Maybe I'm setting my sights too low then if they're jobs that a student could do.



What do you mean?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> What do you mean?



Students straight out of college probably don't have a lot of actual 'work experience' whereas I have 18 years of it, which I am sure demostrates far more capability than an irrelevant 'ology'.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Students straight out of college probably don't have a lot of actual 'work experience' whereas I have 18 years of it, which I am sure demostrates far more capability than an irrelevant 'ology'.



Depends on the job really doesn't it?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Depends on the job really doesn't it?



Perhaps.  I can understand things like engineering jobs needing engineering degrees, but many of the jobs I see advertised don't specify a 'relevant degree', just 'a' degree, and the grade doesn't matter either.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

Of course, ajdown, it might well be that you're not getting jobs because employers don't want you offending the workforce.


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## DotCommunist (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Perhaps.  I can understand things like engineering jobs needing engineering degrees, but many of the jobs I see advertised don't specify a 'relevant degree', just 'a' degree, and the grade doesn't matter either.



Thats because lots of employers see a degree evidence that the candidate can work to a certain level.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Perhaps.  I can understand things like engineering jobs needing engineering degrees, but many of the jobs I see advertised don't specify a 'relevant degree', just 'a' degree, and the grade doesn't matter either.



Then make a claim for age discrimination.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Of course, ajdown, it might well be that you're not getting jobs because employers don't want you offending the workforce.



Ha ha funny.  All they have is a form to go by, they don't know a thing else about me.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Ha ha funny.  All they have is a form to go by, they don't know a thing else about me.



Not even getting as far as interviews then?


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## Belushi (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Ha ha funny.  All they have is a form to go by, they don't know a thing else about me.



Have you tried contacting the organisations in question for feedback on why your not getting the job?

If that doesnt worl you can always make a request under the Data Protection Act on any information they have on you, this may give you an idea on why you werent selected if theres selection/interview panel notes etc.


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## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I'm being accused of being 'intolerant' - but those doing the accusing are in themselves being intolerant of my views.


Let me get this straight.
You do not understand why other posters are intolerant of your intolerance?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Not even getting as far as interviews then?



I haven't been looking perhaps as actively as I could or should be for a new job, but nope.

I think a lot of it is that I'm looking to move from London to a different part of the country, and people get nervous about having people relocating for a job in case it doesn't somehow work out (unless of course it's a job that offers a relocation package).

They can't understand why I'd want to move from 'high paying London' to somewhere else, and they can't match what they think I'm getting at the moment - although my salary is clearly stated on the form where asked (not that I think it's any of their damn business but that's another discussion) and as I work for a charity is is going to be lower-paid than London but in fact on a par for what a similar non-charity job would pay outside of London.  Plus, of course, the cost of living is much cheaper.

My girlfriend's parents house in Lincolnshire - 4 bedroom detatched with large garden - is in the same council tax band as my one bedroom flat with a garden big enough for a wheelie bin on Brixton Hill.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

How do you know that's what they're thinking?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Have you tried contacting the organisations in question for feedback on why your not getting the job?
> 
> If that doesnt worl you can always make a request under the Data Protection Act on any information they have on you, this may give you an idea on why you werent selected if theres selection/interview panel notes etc.



I did ask with the last one, because I really really wanted that job (rather than 'its a job up there' ) but they haven't gotten back to me yet although the request had been passed on.

I'm a bit reluctant to go down the 'official' line in case it damages my chances with that organisation (which is very large) for other positions in the future - it could simply be that they had a lot of applications and there were more qualified people than me applying.


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## Belushi (May 27, 2008)

> I think a lot of it is that I'm looking to move from London to a different part of the country, and people get nervous about having people relocating for a job in case it doesn't somehow work out (unless of course it's a job that offers a relocation package).



Yeah, thats a real problem. Any chance you could use your girlfriends address (if its that part of the country your moving to) for job app's etc? that may help.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Yeah, thats a real problem. Any chance you could use your girlfriends address (if its that part of the country your moving to) for job app's etc? that may help.



It's possible I guess, even though I state clearly on the form that I am waiting for a suitable job to be able to move to the area.

The problem is that I can't afford to move up there until I have a job up there to go to (commuting there from London would add 4 hours to each end of the day and is just completely impractical both timewise and costwise) plus I want to get out of London anyway.

Surely though, isn't it some form of discrimination?  "Local Jobs for Local People" all sounds a bit Royston Vasey to me.


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## Belushi (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I did ask with the last one, because I really really wanted that job (rather than 'its a job up there' ) but they haven't gotten back to me yet although the request had been passed on.
> 
> I'm a bit reluctant to go down the 'official' line in case it damages my chances with that organisation (which is very large) for other positions in the future - it could simply be that they had a lot of applications and there were more qualified people than me applying.



Like you, I work in the charity sector and it can be really competitive for jobs - friends in city jobs etc sometimes say they'd like to move to the charity sector not realising how hard we work and how bloody competitive the charity jobs market is!


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown, if you know what the issue is, why have you been giving it large about positive discrimination in favour of ethnic minorities & age discriminatory adverts?


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Like you, I work in the charity sector and it can be really competitive for jobs - friends in city jobs etc sometimes say they'd like to move to the charity sector not realising how hard we work and how bloody competitive the charity jobs market is!



Mine is simply an administrative position (although I'm indirectly dealing with 120 staff and it brings in fundraising worth about £3 million a year so it's not exactly office junior stuff) - but the skills I am using are transferable to any office job, or one that involves paperwork, dealing with people, planning etc.  However, the last 2 jobs I applied for (and didn't get an interview) weren't for charity sector jobs.

You're right... like you, I probably work as hard as some of the city types for a fraction of the salary.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> ajdown, if you know what the issue is, why have you been giving it large about positive discrimination in favour of ethnic minorities & age discriminatory adverts?



I have no idea what the reason really is.  It might be that the person looking at the forms has an allergy to the letter W, and as I have two in my real name my application is just tossed aside?

W allergies aren't that rare, you know


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I have no idea what the reason really is.  It might be that the person looking at the forms has an allergy to the letter W, and as I have two in my real name my application is just tossed aside?
> 
> W allergies aren't that rare, you know



Well your suspected reason sounds an awful lot more likely than the ones you were banging on about earlier.


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## ajdown (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Well your suspected reason sounds an awful lot more likely than the ones you were banging on about earlier.



Big companies are more likely to be concerned about employing the 'right amount of BME candidates' rather than taking people solely on the merits of their particular application.


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## cesare (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> Big companies are more likely to be concerned about employing the 'right amount of BME candidates' rather than taking people solely on the merits of their particular application.



Big companies are more likely to be concerned about minimising the risk of unlimited compensation for successful discrimination* claims and will do quite a lot to ensure that doesn't happen - I think you'll find.


* Yes, that includes positive discrimination.


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## Belushi (May 27, 2008)

cesare said:


> Big companies are more likely to be concerned about minimising the risk of unlimited compensation for successful discrimination* claims and will do quite a lot to ensure that doesn't happen - I think you'll find.
> 
> 
> * Yes, that includes positive discrimination.



Yup, thats my experience.


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## Blagsta (May 27, 2008)

ajdown said:


> I'm being accused of being 'intolerant' - but those doing the accusing are in themselves being intolerant of my views.


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## Crispy (May 28, 2008)

These sort of threads always end up this way. Question:What's the ethnic makeup of area X. Answer: Here's the census data.

Any posts past those two are guarunteed to be bunfight. Or at least cupcakefight.


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## cesare (May 28, 2008)

Crispy said:


> These sort of threads always end up this way. Question:What's the ethnic makeup of area X. Answer: Here's the census data.
> 
> Any posts past those two are guarunteed to be bunfight. Or at least cupcakefight.



So what? Are you suggesting that we don't respond to these views in the interests of a peaceful board?


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## Thimble Queen (May 28, 2008)

Whats a bunfight?


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## Crispy (May 28, 2008)

cesare said:


> So what? Are you suggesting that we don't respond to these views in the interests of a peaceful board?


Course not, just making an observation


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