# Colston statue replacement



## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

Jen Reid: Statue of Black Lives Matter protester appears on Colston plinth
					

The figure of Black Lives Matter protester Jen Reid appeared in Bristol early on Wednesday.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




YES!


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## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2020)

My first thought is that this is just another form of enclosure, this time a Cambridge educated posh bloke from somewhere else gets to decide for the people of the city, carving out locals behind their backs. Who knows, maybe, crazy as it sounds, there were maybe some black artists in the city who had something to say?The content of the thing on isn't a problem in itself but the process is very similar to how colston went up in the first place.


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## Dr. Furface (Jul 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> My first thought is that this is just another form of enclosure, this time a Cambridge educated posh bloke from somewhere else gets to decide for the people of the city, carving out locals behind their backs. Who knows, maybe, crazy as it sounds, there were maybe some black artists in the city who had something to say?The content of the thing on isn't a problem in itself but the process is very similar to how colston went up in the first place.


Never mind, you can be sure it won't be there as long as Colston's was


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)

Dr. Furface said:


> Never mind, you can be sure it won't be there as long as Colston's was


The point knocked round for you and found you weren't home


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> My first thought is that this is just another form of enclosure, this time a Cambridge educated posh bloke from somewhere else gets to decide for the people of the city, carving out locals behind their backs. Who knows, maybe, crazy as it sounds, there were maybe some black artists in the city who had something to say?The content of the thing on isn't a problem in itself but the process is very similar to how colston went up in the first place.


My first thought was yay! The second was Brilliant!


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2020)

Yeah this is definitely the same as the statue of a slave trader being there for 150 years. Same exact thing. Hashtag tear it down hashtag priorities.


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## farmerbarleymow (Jul 15, 2020)

Good for them - and it looks great.


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## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2020)

One of the main issues around the 40 year plus struggle over the statue - beyond the question of it being a heroisation of a disgusting slaver - was that of the assertion of ownership over public space by the rich (in this particular case as part of a battle between colston's north bristol mafia and their fast growing south bristol rivals) that it represented and the enclosure that this entailed, Now this posh oxbridge bloke from somewhere else has just asserted his own ownership over public space, and public space only very recently won by collective struggle. I repeat, this is a point not about the content of the statue but a wider one. But, i see already that this is a fruitless thread with people going to be determined to miss or ignore the point, and i'e not really got neither the time nor the inclination to waste on that sort of thing today.


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> One of the main issues around the 40 year plus struggle over the statue - beyond the question of it being a heroisation of a disgusting slaver - was that of the assertion of ownership over public space by the rich (in this particular case as part of a battle between colston's north bristol mafia and their fast growing south bristol rivals) that it represented and the enclosure that this entailed, Now this posh cambridge bloke from somewhere else has just asserted his own ownership over public space, and public space only very recently won by collective struggle. I repeat, this is a point not about the content of the statue but a wider one. But, i see already that this is a fruitless thread with people going to be determined to miss or ignore the point,


Seems to me you wilfully miss some of the bigger picture.


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

There is a similar row along butchersapron point in Brixton bout the Cherry Groce memorial in Windrush Square .  I could not care much about who designs it or the lack of community involvement.  I just want it finally built so can go and pay long overdue respects.


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## existentialist (Jul 15, 2020)

TopCat said:


> Seems to me you wilfully miss some of the bigger picture.


I don't generally get involved in debates with butchersapron, because I'm the proverbial unarmed man in the battle of wits when it comes to such things, but my own politically naive take on this is that there's a narrative: Colston's statue got taken down, and various other activities have kept the pot boiling, now this - it's keeping the issue alive and in the public eye. I guess, from an ideologically purist point of view, it's not much cop, but it's another nice slap in the face, albeit maybe not a big enough one from some points of view, for the establishment efforts to keep things the same. The statue won't last, and with any luck what goes up in the end will be something that takes the narrative on in a useful direction, but it serves as a placeholder. Maybe it can end up in the museum next to Colston's...


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)

TopCat said:


> Seems to me you wilfully miss some of the bigger picture.


I think you've both got a point. It's particularly pleasing to see a statue of a protester occupy that site. Especially to see the statue of a black woman replace a white slaver. But this is parachuting in and not dealing with how Bristolians who use the space want it filled. It is possible they'd go for something like the statue that's there now. But that choice, that agency, has been removed from them. In addition the statue's by someone with no connection to Bristol, not to mention that this is the view of an artist whose work sells at Sotheby's and high end celeb auctions. I wonder if a statue by a local artist might have more resonance.


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> I think you've both got a point. It's particularly pleasing to see a statue of a protester occupy that site. Especially to see the statue of a black women replace a white slaver. But this is parachuting in and not dealing with how Bristolians who use the space want it filled. It is possible they'd go for something like the statue that's there now. But that choice, that agency, has been removed from them. In addition the statue's by someone with no connection to Bristol, not to mention that this is the view of an artist whose work sells at Sotheby's and high end celeb auctions. I wonder if a statue by a local artist might have more resonance.


I agree. But this is encouraging for people. It inspires. It's a win.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)

TopCat said:


> I agree. But this is encouraging for people. It inspires. It's a win.


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

Maybe I am easily pleased as I age. Maybe not though!


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## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2020)

existentialist said:


> I don't generally get involved in debates with butchersapron, because I'm the proverbial unarmed man in the battle of wits when it comes to such things, but my own politically naive take on this is that there's a narrative: Colston's statue got taken down, and various other activities have kept the pot boiling, now this - it's keeping the issue alive and in the public eye. I guess, from an ideologically purist point of view, it's not much cop, but it's another nice slap in the face, albeit maybe not a big enough one from some points of view, for the establishment efforts to keep things the same. The statue won't last, and with any luck what goes up in the end will be something that takes the narrative on in a useful direction, but it serves as a placeholder. Maybe it can end up in the museum next to Colston's...


The issue hasn't really gone away, not since the toppling - this week there was long attack in the paper from a former Merchant Venturer bigwig over their role in running numerous schools in the city (they honestly do, mad as that sounds) with lots more to come on that front, and Cleo Lake (local green poss future mayor and very associated with counter-colston) has come out attacking the potential prosecutions and putting the pressure on mayor Rees who has effectively gone into political hiding over the issue, refusing all questions etc This will, of course, contribute to that ongoing stuff, but it's not like it's not ongoing already.


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> The issue hasn't really gone away, not since the toppling - this week there was long attack in the paper from a former Merchant Venturer bigwig over their role in running numerous schools in the city (they honestly do, mad as that sounds) with lots more to come on that front, and Cleo Lake (local green poss future mayor and very associated with counter-colston) has come out attacking the potential prosecutions and putting the pressure on mayor Rees who has effectively gone into political hiding over the issue, refusing all questions etc


If a decent protest is organised send word, we will come.


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## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2020)

TopCat said:


> If a decent protest is organised send word, we will come.


If there are prosecutions - don't worry, _everyone _will know about it!


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> If there are prosecutions - don't worry, _everyone _will know about it!


We come down to support anyone prosecuted then go on to other targets? Has anyone been charged yet? I heard one was nicked?


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## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2020)

TopCat said:


> We come down to support anyone prosecuted then go on to other targets? Has anyone been charged yet? I heard one was nicked?


One person questioned and immediately got representation a few weeks back.


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## existentialist (Jul 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> If there are prosecutions - don't worry, _everyone _will know about it!


I'd hope, if there are prosecutions, that there will be a pretty massive crowdfunder, or some pro bono legal representation...


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

existentialist said:


> I'd hope, if there are prosecutions, that there will be a pretty massive crowdfunder, or some pro bono legal representation...


I want hordes of thugs outside court.


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## killer b (Jul 15, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> My first thought is that this is just another form of enclosure, this time a Cambridge educated posh bloke from somewhere else gets to decide for the people of the city, carving out locals behind their backs. Who knows, maybe, crazy as it sounds, there were maybe some black artists in the city who had something to say?The content of the thing on isn't a problem in itself but the process is very similar to how colston went up in the first place.


My first thought was 'at least is wasn't Banksy'.

Agree that this would have been better coming from a lesser known local black artist, but - and this in itself raises some issues - the fact it was done by a well-known contemporary artist who's work sells for loads of cash and that means it's got more chance of staying there. A local unknown artist's statue would be down already.


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## nogojones (Jul 15, 2020)

I know nothing about the artist, but when I saw it this morning it proper cheered me up. I'm not sure it's about colonising public space for the rich, it points more to a democratisation of it. If we don't like it we can vote with ropes and a tumble to the dock and even though it's just one representative it celebrates mass action


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## platinumsage (Jul 15, 2020)

nogojones said:


> I know nothing about the artist, but when I saw it this morning it proper cheered me up. I'm not sure it's about colonising public space for the rich, it points more to a democratisation of it. If we don't like it we can vote with ropes and a tumble to the dock and even though it's just one representative it celebrates mass action



Perhaps the fash will do that with this new one. What a time to be alive.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)

nogojones said:


> I know nothing about the artist, but when I saw it this morning it proper cheered me up. I'm not sure it's about colonising public space for the rich, it points more to a democratisation of it. If we don't like it we can vote with ropes and a tumble to the dock and even though it's just one representative it celebrates mass action


i'm not sure someone bowling up and saying 'i'm going to put my own statue on that now-vacant plinth' is democracy in action. maybe this time it's something many people will cheer. but as far as i can see there's been none of your actual involvement in the decision by bristolians which might enable you to say 'this is the people's will' or similar.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)




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## killer b (Jul 15, 2020)

nogojones said:


> I know nothing about the artist, but when I saw it this morning it proper cheered me up. I'm not sure it's about colonising public space for the rich, it points more to a democratisation of it. If we don't like it we can vote with ropes and a tumble to the dock and even though it's just one representative it celebrates mass action


He's one of the more significant contemporary artists working in the UK atm - you'll know at least his head made of his own blood, frozen:



and you'll probably know one of his previous works of public art, Alison Lapper Pregnant (which occupied the fourth plinth on Trafalgar Square for a while, an honour shared briefly by an urbanite IIRC - Mation?)



One of the issues this raises for Bristol Council is that this isn't just a statue - it's a sculpture worth hundreds of thousands of pounds by one of the country's foremost sculptors. In any other circumstance they would be delighted to have a piece of his work on display in the city - and the fact that it's a piece by Quinn rather than a less well known local BME artist means it's more likely to stay there IMO. They will be working out how to keep it there safely right now I'd imagine...


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## nogojones (Jul 15, 2020)

killer b said:


> He's one of the more significant contemporary artists working in the UK atm - you'll know at least his head made of his own blood, frozen:
> 
> View attachment 222384
> 
> ...


Shamefully, I'm a bit of philistine when it comes to contemporary artists, but I do vaguely recognise the woman on the Trafalgar plinth.



platinumsage said:


> Perhaps the fash will do that with this new one. What a time to be alive.



Maybe we should get a few crates of stella in and stand around protecting it #All statues matter


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## Raheem (Jul 15, 2020)

I don't know enough about Mark Quinn to say for sure he's not just a twat arrogantly imposing his art into a situation he ought to stay out of.

But it seems to me like a good example of public art, which is hard enough to come by that I'm not sure it makes too much sense to look a gift horse in the mouth. I really doubt it's been put up there in the expectation that everyone will just have to accept it, in any case.


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## marty21 (Jul 15, 2020)

IThis chap isn't happy about it


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## Petcha (Jul 15, 2020)

Looks great, is it based on a photo from the day or did she pose for it separately?


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## existentialist (Jul 15, 2020)

Petcha said:


> Looks great, is it based on a photo from the day or did she pose for it separately?


Both. The artist saw the photo, got her to come in and pose per the photo, and did a 3-D capture job on her, then used the data to print sections of the statue on a 3-D printer, which were then used to cast the resin.


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## existentialist (Jul 15, 2020)

marty21 said:


> View attachment 222393
> This chap isn't happy about it


Good


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## existentialist (Jul 15, 2020)

I'm 100% certain that some bunch of right-wing thugnutters WILL decide to topple it, and expect to get away with it.

With any luck, it'll be 4 fat pissed middle-aged blokes, whose plans will fail at the first hurdle...that of hauling 20 stone of lardarse far enough up the statue to be able to pull it down, and they'll end up yelling racist abuse while clutching cans of cheap lager, and picking a fight with the police. Also, Brexit.


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## rubbershoes (Jul 15, 2020)

marty21 said:


> IView attachment 222393This chap isn't happy about it




if it pisses him off, i'm all for it


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## killer b (Jul 15, 2020)

I'm not sure if we should care either way what brexitbassist on twitter thinks tbh.


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## wiskey (Jul 15, 2020)

My local FB page is full of gammons having conniptions about this. 

Personally I quite like it


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## Fozzie Bear (Jul 15, 2020)

My partner said it looked like a statue of a young woman that a middle aged man would make, which hadn't occurred to me.

It's not terrible but there is a whole problem of statues venerating individuals anyway - it was a bunch of people who pulled down the statue on the day and they were standing on the shoulders of the campaigners who had been at it for years... it is a good placeholder as existentialist said.


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## xenon (Jul 15, 2020)

It's a good interim. Better than Jimmy Savile which was up briefly the other day…


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## xenon (Jul 15, 2020)

wiskey said:


> My local FB page is full of gammons having conniptions about this.
> 
> Personally I quite like it



Those pages have been quite fun lately.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> My partner said it looked like a statue of a young woman that a middle aged man would make, which hadn't occurred to me.


yeh very much

it made me think of finchley's la delivrance only with clothes on


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## killer b (Jul 15, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> My partner said it looked like a statue of a young woman that a middle aged man would make, which hadn't occurred to me.
> 
> It's not terrible but there is a whole problem of statues venerating individuals anyway - it was a bunch of people who pulled down the statue on the day and they were standing on the shoulders of the campaigners who had been at it for years... it is a good placeholder as existentialist said.


It's more of a record of a moment - the moment of the previous occupant's removal (edit: and I suppose the wider BLM movement) - than venerating an individual isn't it though? I quite like that it's just a statue of a random woman who was involved in the protests than some _leader_.


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## Raheem (Jul 15, 2020)

xenon said:


> Better than Jimmy Savile



Now there's a quote for the back of the artist's next coffee table book.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jul 15, 2020)

killer b said:


> It's more of a record of a moment - the moment of the previous occupant's removal - than venerating an individual isn't it though? I quite like that it's just a statue of a random woman who was involved in the protests than some _leader_.



Well I doubt that she was selected _randomly _by the middle aged posh male artist. 

And it will increase her profile as a face of the protests. Not that this is her fault.

But yeah it is not a terrible thing, as a temporary measure.


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## killer b (Jul 15, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well I doubt that she was selected _randomly _by the middle aged posh male artist.
> 
> And it will increase her profile as a face of the protests. Not that this is her fault.
> 
> But yeah it is not a terrible thing, as a temporary measure.


no of course - he selected her because he liked the photo of her that went viral - I suppose the reason it went viral and the reason he liked it will of course have a male gaze element to it... but it is a striking image nonetheless.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)

nogojones said:


> Maybe we should get a few crates of stella in and stand around protecting it #All statues matter


perhaps cider more the appropriate drink

or calvados


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## TopCat (Jul 15, 2020)

The point butchersapron made earlier today about democratic use of space is resonating more as the day wears on. 

Still happy though.


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## tony.c (Jul 15, 2020)

TopCat said:


> democratic use of space


What does that mean in practice though? A ballot of local people - unlikely. The Bristol Mayor urging a democratic decision probably means a vote by 'democratically elected' councillors, either a full council vote or a council sub-committee, advised by council officials.


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## killer b (Jul 15, 2020)

Thomas J Price makes some good points in this Guardian piece. 


_Thomas J Price, who has been commissioned to create a sculpture dedicated to the Windrush Generation, accused Quinn of creating a “votive statue to appropriation”.

“Unfortunately, it feels like an opportunistic stunt,” Price told the Guardian. “I think it would be far more useful if white artists confronted ‘whiteness’ as opposed to using the lack of black representation in art to find relevance for themselves.”

Price added that he understood the positive responses to the piece, which was modelled on the figure of Jen Reid who was photographed protesting on top of the empty plinth, but he believed Quinn’s work ultimately failed.
...

Price said he feels the Quinn piece could “overshadow any permanent sculpture”, and therefore hinder “real progress during a moment of activism that should have showcased a black artist’s output, not that of a white cis man”. _


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)

tony.c said:


> What does that mean in practice though? A ballot of local people - unlikely. The Bristol Mayor urging a democratic decision probably means a vote by 'democratically elected' councillors, either a full council vote or a council sub-committee, advised by council officials.


you ask the wrong question, not what does it mean in practice but what should it mean in practice

and in practice it should not be up to the bigwigs whose forbears erected the statue but up to the actual demos, the people of bristol.


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## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2020)

killer b said:


> Thomas J Price makes some good points in this Guardian piece.
> 
> 
> _Thomas J Price, who has been commissioned to create a sculpture dedicated to the Windrush Generation, accused Quinn of creating a “votive statue to appropriation”.
> ...


points which you could read here instead of in the guardian


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## maomao (Jul 16, 2020)

It's been taken down anyway and sent to a local museum for the artist to collect.









						Black Lives Matter sculpture of Jen Reid removed from Colston plinth
					

The sculpture of protester has been taken to a museum for artist Marc Quinn to collect, says Bristol city council




					www.theguardian.com


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## Dogsauce (Jul 16, 2020)

The local fash will be spitting pips because they didn’t get to put it in the drink. Impotent. Bet they’d already wasted time setting up a Facebook page or something, or written racist invective on the comments page of one of the local rags that tolerates such shit.


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## tony.c (Jul 16, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> you ask the wrong question, not what does it mean in practice but what should it mean in practice


So what do you think it should mean in practice?


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## tony.c (Jul 16, 2020)

The sculptor and the woman portrayed, Jen Reid, expected the statue to be removed within 1-7 days.
Interview with Jen Reid on Channel 4 News yesterday:








						Statue of slaver Edward Colston unofficially replaced with sculpture of Black Lives Matter protester
					

A statue of a woman making the black power salute has appeared on the plinth where Bristol slaver Edward Colston once stood.




					www.channel4.com


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## Tankus (Jul 16, 2020)

Seen Wolfie smith been mentioned a few  times ...

 Maybe pair it with Colstens in Bristol museum


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## Athos (Jul 16, 2020)

My first reaction to seeing a statue of a black woman protestor in the place of one of a slave owner was positive, but I did feel a bit unconfirmed about the process of it getting there.  Quinn should've made the sculpture and gifted it to a Bristol- based BLM group,  explaining he wanted to chip in the best way he could, and that they could display it or sell it - how've they consider it would best help the cause.  And/or offered to e.g. fund a sculpture project by local black artists.


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## existentialist (Jul 16, 2020)

Athos said:


> My first reaction to seeing a statue of a black woman protestor in the place of one of a slave owner was positive, but I did feel a bit unconfirmed about the process of it getting there.  Quinn should've made the sculpture and gifted it to a Bristol- based BLM group,  explaining he wanted to chip in the best way he could, and that they could display it or sell it - how've they consider it would best help the cause.  And/or offered to e.g. fund a sculpture project by local black artists.


Nah. It was the gesture that mattered here, not specifically the statue, and as such, I think it has achieved what it set out to do. 

And I think Bristol City Council has played a blinder. If that statue had remained, it would have become a focus for the far right, and would also have ended up in the dock, too. As it is, they've quietly taken it down, with no posturing or drama, treated it with respect, and said "come and get your statue". 

A point has been made, and quite nicely, by both the BLM side, and by BCC.


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## Athos (Jul 16, 2020)

existentialist said:


> Nah. It was the gesture that mattered here, not specifically the statue, and as such, I think it has achieved what it set out to do.
> 
> And I think Bristol City Council has played a blinder. If that statue had remained, it would have become a focus for the far right, and would also have ended up in the dock, too. As it is, they've quietly taken it down, with no posturing or drama, treated it with respect, and said "come and get your statue".
> 
> A point has been made, and quite nicely, by both the BLM side, and by BCC.



The point wasn't made by "the BLM side" or local people, though.  But by someone from outside the community imposing his vision on it.


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## existentialist (Jul 16, 2020)

Athos said:


> The point wasn't made by "the BLM side" or local people, though.  But by someone from outside the community imposing his vision on it.


Oh, you do love an argument, don't you? 

But I'm not biting.


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## Athos (Jul 16, 2020)

existentialist said:


> Oh, you do love an argument, don't you?
> 
> But I'm not biting.



I'm not spoiling for an argument; I just disagree with your point, for the reasons given.  Up to you whether you can/will address them.


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2021)

The colston statue is in the M shed now, for a few months while they gather public opnion about what should happen to it next









						The Colston statue: What next? | M Shed - Bristol Museums
					

One year on from its toppling, the Edward Colston statue now forms part of a new display at M Shed to start a city-wide conversation about its future.




					www.bristolmuseums.org.uk


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## butchersapron (Jun 7, 2021)

Yes, the consultative display where they have forgot to mention the Merchant Venturers, where the Mayor is centred rather the grassroots anti-colston groups and his history of not wanting to touch the colston issue with a barge pole is conveniently also forgotten. 

Much much more at first link.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2021)

Crispy said:


> The colston statue is in the M shed now, for a few months while they gather public opnion about what should happen to it next
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i see the statue is conveniently located and oriented for easy lifting and use as a ram to break the surrounding glass, the nearby window and ejection into the water


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## BillRiver (Jun 7, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> i see the statue is conveniently located and oriented for easy lifting and use as a ram to break the surrounding glass, the nearby window and ejection into the water



I don't think it needs removing from it's current home. I gather the exhibition is well done and tells a fairly full/true history. The people I know in Bristol, including my 26 year old nephew who was in the crowd when it was pulled down, support this exhibition.

My nephew and his mates are proud to have been part of that crowd, and chuffed that events of that day are being commemorated in this exhibition. They are mostly all Black/PoC and politically literate so I respect their views on this.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I don't think it needs removing from it's current home. I gather the exhibition is well done and tells a fairly full/true history. The people I know in Bristol including my 26 year old nephew who was in the crowd when it was pulled down, support this exhibition.
> 
> My nephew and his mates are proud to have been part of that crowd, and chuffed that events of that day are being commemorated in this exhibition.


i'm just pointing out how thoughtfully it has been placed should anyone desire to defenestrate the nefandous colston


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## BillRiver (Jun 7, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm just pointing out how thoughtfully it has been placed should anyone desire to defenestrate the nefandous colston



Sure. I'm just saying/I think to do that would be to miss the point of the previous action which put him in the river, as well as the nature of his current position in this exhibition.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Sure. I'm just saying I think to do that would be to miss the point of the previous action which put him in the river, as well as the nature of his current position in this exhibition.


what, pointing out the supine position of the statue and proximity to the window and water misses the point of the original submersion?


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## BillRiver (Jun 7, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> what, pointing out the supine position of the statue and proximity to the window and water misses the point of the original submersion?



No, sorry I wasn't more clear and also sounded more critical of you than I intended.

But yes I do think that if anyone were to actually take it from the museum and put it back in the water, that act would have a very different meaning than the original dunking, and would be somewhat demeaning to that original action.

I think it would be a shit thing to do.

Not saying that thinking about it or posting about it is a shit thing to do, but actually doing it would be.


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## butchersapron (Jun 7, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I don't think it needs removing from it's current home. I gather the exhibition is well done and tells a fairly full/true history. The people I know in Bristol, including my 26 year old nephew who was in the crowd when it was pulled down, support this exhibition.
> 
> My nephew and his mates are proud to have been part of that crowd, and chuffed that events of that day are being commemorated in this exhibition. They are mostly all Black/PoC and politically literate so I respect their views on this.


I think you may need to have a closer read of the link i posted that you liked Bill. The one that outlines various problems with both the tale told and the way it's told and the cutting out precisely of 'the crowd'.

I appreciate that most people outside the city  - and to be honest, most people within the city -  unless they have a direct link to the various hidden debates that have surrounded the last year that it took to get this going are going to be out of the loop somewhat. The idea that this has a smooth process with a universally applauded outcome is far from the truth, and, if anything, the display has brought those tensions directly to the public eye. People have been critically supportive and offered goodwill to some parts of the commission - to Dr Shawn Sobers in particular (and for me personally, an ex-poster from here who i totally trust to do the right thing) but from secretly taking MV money to MV's accidentally not appearing in the context-providing presentation is sorely testing a lot of people's patience. And that's without going into stuff that will only come into public view if it all collapses into (further) acrimony.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> No, sorry I wasn't more clear and also sounded more critical of you than I intended.
> 
> But yes I do think that if anyone were to actually take it from the museum and put it back in the water, that act would have a very different meaning than the original dunking, and would be somewhat demeaning to that original action.
> 
> ...


tbh i think the meaning depends who does it and why. i wouldn't have a problem with colston's statue being sent to davy jones' locker myself.


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## BillRiver (Jun 7, 2021)

butchersapron said:


> I think you may need to have a closer read of the link i posted that you liked Bill. The one that outlines various problems with both the tale told and the way it's told and the cutting out precisely of 'the crowd'.
> 
> I appreciate that most people outside the city  - and to be honest, most people within the city -  unless they have a direct link to the various hidden debates that have surrounded the last year that it took to get this going are going to be out of the loop somewhat. The idea that this has a smooth process with a universally applauded outcome is far from the truth, and, if anything, the display has brought those tensions directly to the public eye. People have been critically supportive and offered goodwill to some parts of the commission - to Dr Shawn Sobers in particular (and for me personally, an ex-poster from here who i totally trust to do the right thing) but from secretly taking MV money to MV's accidentally not appearing in the context-providing presentation is sorely testing a lot of people's patience. And that's without going into stuff that will only come into public view if it all collapses into (further) acrimony.



Fair enough. I have read it, and accept the points made, but its entirely possible my nephew and his mates have not. I still think removing it from where it is now would not be a positive move the way it's dunking in the river last year totally was.


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## BillRiver (Jun 7, 2021)

Protests against the exhibition from "Save Our Statues":

Campaigners try to block Edward Colston display at Bristol museum

Or as someone says in the article "‘We demand statues on our terms or not at all!’"


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## mx wcfc (Jun 7, 2021)

#GladColstonsGone! Bristol Topplers’ Defence Fund!, organized by Glad Colstons Gone
					

#GladColstonsGone! Support the Bristol Topplers’ Defence Fund!  … Glad Colstons Gone needs your support for #GladColstonsGone! Bristol Topplers’ Defence Fund!



					www.gofundme.com
				




There's another thread with this on, but I couldn't find it.

The four people being prosecuted need funds to pay for their defence.

It's disappointing to see how badly the fundraiser is going - I'm sure it's just not widely enough known.  

Anyway, I've been paid again since my last contribution - so I've chucked in again.


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