# Do Rec Agencies really blacklist candidates



## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

I mentioned this on another thread. That I have never had a response from Office Angels since an incident in 1999 where I fibbed on my CV. Now in 2014 and not once I ever get or gotten a response from them. Sorry but that cannot be a coincidence. Only way to check would be to change my CV name and apply for a job. 

Also, I accepted two job offers. One from an agency and one from a firm directly. Agency higher pay. Firm is low pay.

If I now not turn up on Monday for the agency job, am I taking a risk of that firm now blacklisting me as I am due to start Monday?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 1, 2014)

They probably keep a record. That's not really 'blacklisting' though.


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## moon (Feb 1, 2014)

yes they do.. and sometimes share information between agencies too..
But I only have anecdotal evidence of this


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

Fuck, what a mess. might just take the agency job for 6 months so i stay in their good books.


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## 5t3IIa (Feb 1, 2014)

Yes, ime. And why not? You lied on your CV  They have no obligation to you. 

There are plenty of other agencies, but personally I'm not sure I'd risk getting on the 'Do Not Employ' list of yet another one


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

yeah. true. 

i'm tempted to just do the 6 month stint-but obviously keep looking elsewhere in the mean time. Come July pretty sure I could find a job. 

Just it would feel mean to let the other company down as they were really friendly during the interview. But its a low 18k perm job.


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## RubyToogood (Feb 1, 2014)

Not necessarily a blacklist as such but if you mess an agency around they'll probably put a note on your record and be reluctant to put you forward again. However, under the Data Protection Act you have a right to see what they hold on you and I think they can only hold info for a certain amount of time.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

hmm. one interesting thing is. I start agency job on Monday. The other job my start is Tuesday. I'm thinking going to Monday job. Call in sick Tuesday. Go to the Tuesday job. Then in the evening comparing the two and deciding which one I want to let go and which one to keep.....


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## RubyToogood (Feb 1, 2014)

I'm not sure that pulling a sickie in your first week is a winning strategy.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

True. But I'll go on Monday, anyway. Might as well see what it's like etc. Only downside it's in camden. Means either an hour on the bus or 25 minutes underground (which is obviously more expensive).


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## stuff_it (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> True. But I'll go on Monday, anyway. Might as well see what it's like etc. Only downside it's in camden. Means either an hour on the bus or 25 minutes underground (which is obviously more expensive).


If you don't like commuting then don't live in London.


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## Boppity (Feb 1, 2014)

RubyToogood said:


> Not necessarily a blacklist as such but if you mess an agency around they'll probably put a note on your record and be reluctant to put you forward again. However, under the Data Protection Act you have a right to see what they hold on you and I think they can only hold info for a certain amount of time.


The agency I worked for never deleted anyone off of the system, even if they requested it. In fact the option to delete wasn't even available to me. And yes we blacklisted candidates often. Although it wouldn't mean we'd NEVER use them, they would be avoided.

Although there was one guy who we would really never use after he was fired by a client for peeping in the ladies loos.


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## farmerbarleymow (Feb 1, 2014)

RubyToogood said:


> Not necessarily a blacklist as such but if you mess an agency around they'll probably put a note on your record and be reluctant to put you forward again. However, under the Data Protection Act you have a right to see what they hold on you and I think they can only hold info for a certain amount of time.



You're right.  You've the right to get a copy of the personal data they hold on you under s7 of the DPA, and they are obliged to inform you when they respond to such a request things like the purpose for which they are processing it, the sources of the data, and so on.  All this is specified in s7 so they are under a legal obligation to comply with this. 

They can only retain data for as long as it is necessary to do so for the purpose(s) it is being processed for, and should have a records retention policy in place which they can show you which clearly outlines this.  Any retention period must be justified under the Act.

If they are sharing data with other organisations they have to ensure they comply with the DPA as well.

You can find the DPA online easily, and you can also look at the guidance published by the Information Commissioner at www.ico.org.uk.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

stuff_it said:


> If you don't like commuting then don't live in London.


			  true dat. so confused what to do.


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## stuff_it (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> true dat. so confused what to do.


Turn up to the agency job for a week, and make sure you give a week's notice? Unless your job with the firm starts sooner than a week in which case turn up to the agency job Monday and let the agency know straight away that you need to start a permanent job on x date, so they have a chance to get someone else to cover it.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

stuff_it said:


> Turn up to the agency job for a week, and make sure you give a week's notice? Unless your job with the firm starts sooner than a week in which case turn up to the agency job Monday and let the agency know straight away that you need to start a permanent job on x date, so they have a chance to get someone else to cover it.


.   That's going to be a tad difficult as the agency job starts monday 3rd feb  and perma starts following day 4th.


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## Quartz (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> Also, I accepted two job offers. One from an agency and one from a firm directly. Agency higher pay. Firm is low pay.



Which one has the higher net pay? After taxes, commission, commuting, etc? And which one do you really want? Then ring the other and tell them that an opportunity has arisen which you had to take. Do not just not turn up.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

Quartz said:


> Which one has the higher net pay? After taxes, commission, commuting, etc? And which one do you really want? Then ring the other and tell them that an opportunity has arisen which you had to take. Do not just not turn up.



The agency job is more after taxes and ni and rent council tax utility bills etc. Mind u only by £210 a month. Will defo turn up for first day on Monday just to see and get a feel of the place. The systems they use. What the staff there are like.


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## weltweit (Feb 1, 2014)

One particular agency is on my own blacklist.

Back when I was a manager they rang to offer me this chap who they claimed was a perfect fit for my organisation. They waxed lyrical about him so after a bit I got suspicious, lived close by, working in a similar role, I asked the candidates name!! turns out he was already one of my employees!!

Just how incompetent do you have to be to offer someone to their current employer!


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> I mentioned this on another thread. That I have never had a response from Office Angels since an incident in 1999 where I fibbed on my CV. Now in 2014 and not once I ever get or gotten a response from them. Sorry but that cannot be a coincidence. Only way to check would be to change my CV name and apply for a job.
> 
> Also, I accepted two job offers. One from an agency and one from a firm directly. Agency higher pay. Firm is low pay.
> 
> If I now not turn up on Monday for the agency job, am I taking a risk of that firm now blacklisting me as I am due to start Monday?


I think you need to understand what blacklisting really is. There's a thread about blacklisting in the construction industry in P&P if you're interested.

Recruitment agencies are far too busy to reply to every single CV submitted to them. The fact that you lied to Office Angels once certainly won't go in your favour. Agencies need reliable people they can send out who won't lose them contracts. If you tell them you've been offered a permanent job and you're going to take it, they'll not think twice about it. Screw them over by throwing a sickie and you won't get work through that agency again.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

weltweit said:


> One particular agency is on my own blacklist.
> 
> Back when I was a manager they rang to offer me this chap who they claimed was a perfect fit for my organisation. They waxed lyrical about him so after a bit I got suspicious, lived close by, working in a similar role, I asked the candidates name!! turns out he was already one of my employees!!
> 
> Just how incompetent do you have to be to offer someone to their current employer!



how do you know that the candidate was not looking for a job elsewhere and had sent his CV to that agency without letting anyone else know? maybe he was getting bored with the place and wanted a change? maybe it was a mix up? maybe he had altered his CV?


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Recruitment agencies are far too busy to reply to every single CV submitted to them. The fact that you lied to Office Angels once certainly won't go in your favour. Agencies need reliable people they can send out who won't lose them contracts. If you tell them you've been offered a permanent job and you're going to take it, they'll not think twice about it. Screw them over by throwing a sickie and you won't get work through that agency again.



problem is both start dates are after each other. Can't tell them I got a perma job without actually trying the perma one first. If I leave the agency one, the perma one might turn up to be crap!


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## weltweit (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> how do you know that the candidate was not looking for a job elsewhere and had sent his CV to that agency without letting anyone else know? maybe he was getting bored with the place and wanted a change? maybe it was a mix up? maybe he had altered his CV?


Oh he was looking, that particular person was / is always looking for the next opportunity. In a way that was what made it worse, he had asked them to find him a new / better job and they had rung up his current employer.

While they were talking to me on the phone, he was sat on the desk in front of me looking more and more worried as my conversation went on. Eventually I hung up on the agency after telling them that HE ALREADY WORKS FOR ME - then I told the chap that he needed a better recruitment agent because this one was worse than crap!!


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> problem is both start dates are after each other. Can't tell them I got a perma job without actually trying the perma one first. If I leave the agency one, the perma one might turn up to be crap!


The problem is the permanent one starts after the agency job (they can't both start after each other, logically). Sometimes, you just have to make a decision and live with the outcome. 

You can't have your cake and eat it. Pick a job and do it.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> The problem is the permanent one starts after the agency job (they can't both start after each other, logically). Sometimes, you just have to make a decision and live with the outcome.
> 
> You can't have your cake and eat it. Pick a job and do it.



True. I've now asked about 5 people in total including urbanites as I can't make up my mind. 

Got told off with "why is he always asking me what to do" response too.


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## tufty79 (Feb 1, 2014)

Boppity said:


> The agency I worked for never deleted anyone off of the system, even if they requested it. In fact the option to delete wasn't even available to me. And yes we blacklisted candidates often. Although it wouldn't mean we'd NEVER use them, they would be avoided.
> 
> *Although there was one guy who we would really never use after he was fired by a client for peeping in the ladies loos*


we generally just made people's file 'inactive' - there was no option to delete either. if someone did something genuinely horrendous after we'd placed them, they'd get a letter saying something along the lines of we weren't able to consider them for any future positions. tbf we didn't need a 'blacklist' as such - we were a very small agency, with a boss with a memory like an elephant, and a terrifying ability to remember * everything *  about anyone we'd ever taken on 

bloody 'ell at yer last bloke - we never got anything *that* bad


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> True. I've now asked about 5 people in total including urbanites as I can't make up my mind.
> 
> Got told off with "why is he always asking me what to do" response too.


Realistically £18k in London really isn't going to go very far. I'd stick with the agency job.

Have you signed any paperwork with the permanent job?


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Realistically £18k in London really isn't going to go very far. I'd stick with the agency job.
> 
> Have you signed any paperwork with the permanent job?



No. No contract signed at all! They are happy with the references received and want me to start Tuesday.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> No. No contract signed at all! They are happy with the references received and want me to start Tuesday.


Phone them on Monday and tell them you've got another job.

Why were you starting somewhere without a contract?


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 1, 2014)

moon said:


> yes they do.. and sometimes share information between agencies too..
> But I only have anecdotal evidence of this



Same here. I knew blokes who couldn't get agency work because they'd complained about safety issues on warehouse jobs they were sent on, whichever agency they went to.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Phone them on Monday and tell them you've got another job.
> 
> Why were you starting somewhere without a contract?



no idea! probably would have been given something on Tuesday? Never occurred to me to ask, tbh. They are moving location in 4 weeks time so that might have something to do with it? But come to think of it, it would be the first job I've taken without any contracts given before hand! I'm meant to start on Tuesday without anything signed.


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## weltweit (Feb 1, 2014)

I have been working for the last 6 months without a formal contract.
I am on a probation period.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

nothing stating your holiday entitlements, sick pay, pay rate etc?


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

i had my interview on tuesday 28th jan. offered job wednesday 29th. went for another chat with a manager on thursday 30th who confirmed my start on 4th feb.


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## weltweit (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> nothing stating your holiday entitlements, sick pay, pay rate etc?


Yes, my appointment letter detailed stuff like that so perhaps I do have a form of a contract, I suppose.


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## stuff_it (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> .   That's going to be a tad difficult as the agency job starts monday 3rd feb  and perma starts following day 4th.


Have you tried contacting the agency? Lots of them have an out of hours service. Ring them now.

Lie and say you found out Friday, and offer to work Monday anyway.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

stuff_it said:


> Have you tried contacting the agency? Lots of them have an out of hours service. Ring them now.
> 
> Lie and say you found out Friday, and offer to work Monday anyway.



they told me I got the job on friday evening around 17:50 as it was a last moment request. They sent a geneal email on friday afternoon saying we have a contract job for 6 months. anyone interested please send CV. I sent it despite knowing I already had a job-the pay attracted me.They sent a batch of CVs to the company on friday around 13:00 and I was selected and told by late evening.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

you know. I might be able to use this to secure a higher pay from the agency. It's gonna leave them in the lurch if I don't like it and tell them I got something else. They might say we can pay you a higher hourly rate.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> you know. I might be able to use this to secure a higher pay from the agency. It's gonna leave them in the lurch if I don't like it and tell them I got something else. They might say we can pay you a higher hourly rate.


How will a job offer at a lower rate make the agency pay you more than they will already?


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> they told me I got the job on friday evening around 17:50 as it was a last moment request. They sent a geneal email on friday afternoon saying we have a contract job for 6 months. anyone interested please send CV. I sent it despite knowing I already had a job-the pay attracted me.They sent a batch of CVs to the company on friday around 13:00 and I was selected and told by late evening.


More to the point, why did you say you'd do it when you already had something else lined up?


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> How will a job offer at a lower rate make the agency pay you more than they will already?



well the agency don't know what i'm gonna be paid? I can just say I got a call offering me another job to start Tuesday at say 9.36 per hour or something like that and I've accepted. If they are desperate they might say we will match that hourly rate.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> More to the point, why did you say you'd do it when you already had something else lined up?



pay rate. I didn't want to be unemployed for too long so applied for the 18k per year job. but when I got the agency email I thought I don't want to be working for 18k for too long so why not take a higher pay rate, anyway.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

also I'm thinking the perma job might have opportunities to progress etc


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> well the agency don't know what i'm gonna be paid? I can just say I got a call offering me another job to start Tuesday at say 9.36 per hour or something like that and I've accepted. If they are desperate they might say we will match that hourly rate.


So you're going to lie to the agency again? 

Believe me, they have a ton of people waiting by the phone for agencies to call, you are not irreplaceable - especially not in this economy.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> also I'm thinking the perma job might have opportunities to progress etc


Haven't you asked about this type of thing? 

Why are you accepting a job you don't have all the information about, or a contract?


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

one of the managers said when he spoke to me that "we see a lot of potential here (as in my CV and me)". They really liked me as the first interview only lasted about 20 minutes. They seemed to like what I was saying and look of the CV. I didn't bother to ask about progress etc. I guess I just wanted a job and money.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> one of the managers said when he spoke to me that "we see a lot of potential here (as in my CV and me)". They really liked me as the first interview only lasted about 20 minutes. They seemed to like what I was saying and look of the CV. I didn't bother to ask about progress etc. I guess I just wanted a job and money.


Until you have a contract you have neither.


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## thriller (Feb 1, 2014)

true. very true. I cannot believe I accepted without saying "no I cannot take it without a contract first". 

That's why I ask people for advice as I have a tendency to miss these things.


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## Boppity (Feb 1, 2014)

tufty79 said:


> we generally just made people's file 'inactive' - there was no option to delete either. if someone did something genuinely horrendous after we'd placed them, they'd get a letter saying something along the lines of we weren't able to consider them for any future positions. tbf we didn't need a 'blacklist' as such - we were a very small agency, with a boss with a memory like an elephant, and a terrifying ability to remember * everything * about anyone we'd ever taken on
> 
> bloody 'ell at yer last bloke - we never got anything *that* bad



It wasn't during my time there but next to his details someone had written 'DO NOT SEND' and I had to ask.  

We never bothered informing people if we weren't going to consider them again, I suppose management thought it was a waste of time.


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## farmerbarleymow (Feb 1, 2014)

tufty79 said:


> we generally just made people's file 'inactive' - there was no option to delete either. if someone did something genuinely horrendous after we'd placed them, they'd get a letter saying something along the lines of we weren't able to consider them for any future positions. tbf we didn't need a 'blacklist' as such - we were a very small agency, with a boss with a memory like an elephant, and a terrifying ability to remember * everything * about anyone we'd ever taken on
> 
> bloody 'ell at yer last bloke - we never got anything *that* bad



Any system configured like this is _definitely_ non-compliant with the DPA.  If you want to grass them up to the ICO you could get revenge if you didn't like them.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

thriller said:


> true. very true. I cannot believe I accepted without saying "no I cannot take it without a contract first".
> 
> That's why I ask people for advice as I have a tendency to miss these things.


Come on, you're a grown up, this isn't your first job. 

And this goes for you too, weltweit you need to get a contract. Being on probation has nothing to do with it.


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## weltweit (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> .. And this goes for you too, weltweit you need to get a contract. Being on probation has nothing to do with it.


Well I have a letter, which I suppose is better than nothing. But at the moment no notice periods apply which I am not happy about. They can basically decide month to month to keep me or fire me.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Well I have a letter, which I suppose is better than nothing. But at the moment no notice periods apply which I am not happy about. They can basically decide month to month to keep me or fire me.


Depends what the letter says. At the very least you are legally entitled to the following:
https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions/written-statement-of-employment-particulars


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## weltweit (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Depends what the letter says. At the very least you are legally entitled to the following:
> https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions/written-statement-of-employment-particulars


Thanks for that. The letter does not mention notice periods. It seems it should.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Thanks for that. The letter does not mention notice periods. It seems it should.


IT can do, but it's not mandatory. Rule of thumb is usually whatever your payment period is, so monthly if you're paid monthly. I can check more thoroughly tomorrow so don't take this as absolute fact just now.


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## Boppity (Feb 1, 2014)

I'm working without a contract, unless my agency contract counts.


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## weltweit (Feb 1, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> IT can do, but it's not mandatory. Rule of thumb is usually whatever your payment period is, so monthly if you're paid monthly. I can check more thoroughly tomorrow so don't take this as absolute fact just now.


Actually that would be interesting to know. If you are able it would be appreciated.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

Boppity said:


> I'm working without a contract, unless my agency contract counts.


I think it is slightly different for agency workers, because your agreement is with the agency not with the company where you work.


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## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Actually that would be interesting to know. If you are able it would be appreciated.


No problem, it just means digging out some books which I don't fancying doing just now. I'll do it tomorrow.


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## cesare (Feb 2, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Actually that would be interesting to know. If you are able it would be appreciated.


It'll be statutory minimum notice, weltweit, unless you can argue that your job status and industry practice imply a different notice period.

If you've been in your job less than two years, statutory notice is one week.


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## cesare (Feb 2, 2014)

Info about notice periods: http://m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4096


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## weltweit (Feb 2, 2014)

cesare said:


> It'll be statutory minimum notice, weltweit, unless you can argue that your job status and industry practice imply a different notice period.
> 
> If you've been in your job less than two years, statutory notice is one week.


I liked it to say thanks for the info, not because I like a weeks notice!!
A week, well I suppose it is better than nothing.


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## cesare (Feb 2, 2014)

weltweit said:


> I liked it to say thanks for the info, not because I like a weeks notice!!
> A week, well I suppose it is better than nothing.


Do you think they're going to give you notice?


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## weltweit (Feb 2, 2014)

cesare said:


> Do you think they're going to give you notice?


Not at the moment no.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Feb 2, 2014)

RubyToogood said:


> Not necessarily a blacklist as such but if you mess an agency around they'll probably put a note on your record and be reluctant to put you forward again. However, under the Data Protection Act you have a right to see what they hold on you and I think they can only hold info for a certain amount of time.


How many small temp agencies do you think have procedures in place that are in adherence to the data protection act and PID - personally identifiable data? Because it's a big enough thing for big corporations with the proper resources in place to do. Let alone a small agency where the majority of staff are there to provide income on filling placements.

My ex wife was a recruitment consultant and they definitely had a "do not ever hire this person again" file. But you'd have to be something special to get in there (like lying on your cv or being so inept or unpleasant during a placement it would damage the reputation of the agency to hire you out again. At the end of the day you are money to them. 

But the DPA does exist and you do have the right to see your file. You can find the correct forms to fill in online.


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## equationgirl (Feb 2, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Not at the moment no.


How long is your probation period?


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## farmerbarleymow (Feb 2, 2014)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> How many small temp agencies do you think have procedures in place that are in adherence to the data protection act and PID - personally identifiable data? Because it's a big enough thing for big corporations with the proper resources in place to do. Let alone a small agency where the majority of staff are there to provide income on filling placements.
> <snip>



I agree - it is a big job to keep on top of the legal requirements under the DPA, and it doesn't surprise me at all if smaller companies are not adhering to it.  If they're not they are breaking the law, and if caught they could be in shit - it can only take one complaint to the ICO to trigger an investigation. 

You can check whether an organisation is registered as a data controller with the ICO on the site below.  There are some exemptions to the requirement to notify, but in general most organisations have to do so.  If they're not registered, you could inform the ICO as failure to notify when you are required to do so is an offence. 

http://ico.org.uk/esdwebpages/search

The tell tale signs of either a lack of corporate understanding/awareness of the DPA, or outright dodgy behaviour, is a lack of information on their website about it.  So if there is no fair processing notice, no information about how to obtain copies of your personal data, no information about who to contact with queries, etc., then it can be a bad sign.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 2, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> I agree - it is a big job to keep on top of the legal requirements under the DPA, and it doesn't surprise me at all if smaller companies are not adhering to it.  If they're not they are breaking the law, and if caught they could be in shit - it can only take one complaint to the ICO to trigger an investigation.
> 
> You can check whether an organisation is registered as a data controller with the ICO on the site below.  There are some exemptions to the requirement to notify, but in general most organisations have to do so.  If they're not registered, you could inform the ICO as failure to notify when you are required to do so is an offence.
> 
> ...




The ICO are largely useless. The DPA is there to govern organisations handling of data rather than protect the rights of individuals. You could argue that the former facilitates the later but that's not the reality in my experience.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Feb 2, 2014)

Under new EU laws companies can suffer fines of upto 5% their annual turnover for failing to  adhering to relevant DPA legislation.


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## farmerbarleymow (Feb 2, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> The ICO are largely useless. The DPA is there to govern organisations handling of data rather than protect the rights of individuals. You could argue that the former facilitates the later but that's not the reality in my experience.



It's both in practice.  The DPA is underpinned by the eight Data Protection Principles, and a number of these directly relate to the data subject in terms of fairness, rights, etc., and others are related to security and transfers beyond the EEA (7th and 8th principles respectively). 

For example - the fifth principle is about only retaining personal data for as long as it is necessary to do so for the purpose for which it is processed.  Clearly, this helps organisations as storing data costs money, whatever the format used, so it makes good business sense to delete old data that is no longer required.  But is also helps protect data subjects as a data controller can't just retain data on them forever without just cause.  In effect, it is a balancing exercise between the privacy rights of individuals and the business needs of the organisation.

Of course, not every organisation gets it right.  Good ones will get it right most of the time as it is impossible to always get it right, but bad ones will have serious shortcomings.


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## tufty79 (Feb 2, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Any system configured like this is _definitely_ non-compliant with the DPA.  If you want to grass them up to the ICO you could get revenge if you didn't like them.


Luckily for them, I have no beef there.  and i've just worked out it's nigh on a decade since I worked there


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## thriller (Feb 2, 2014)

So I can email office angels and ask them for an address where I can send a letter requesting what they hold on me and how much the charge is?


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## farmerbarleymow (Feb 2, 2014)

tufty79 said:


> Luckily for them, I have no beef there.  and i've just worked out it's nigh on a decade since I worked there



In my experience, this sort of 'no delete option' is either because a very old pre-DPA legacy database is still being used, or if it is newer, they've failed to properly consider (or consider at all) the DPA requirements during the design phase.  And have only realised once it is the live environment that they've fucked up big style and can't delete records.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Feb 2, 2014)

thriller said:


> So I can email office angels and ask them for an address where I can send a letter requesting what they hold on me and how much the charge is?



Look at the ICO website as that contains some guidance on the process.

Basically, you need to put your request in writing (e-mail is fine), and state clearly what information you are seeking.  

They are very likely to levy the statutory fee, which is £10. They are entitled to ask you for some ID to verify you are who you claim to be - this is permitted under the Act, and usually a recent utility bill is enough.  I'd advise asking if they require this upfront, and offer to drop by the nearest office to show it to them. 

You are also entitled to pay the fee in cash if that is easier - and you could drop this off at the local office when you take your ID.  If they insist on a cheque etc., they are breaking the law as cash is legal tender and therefore an acceptable payment method.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 2, 2014)

Re: do agencies blacklist people? well they have things they look out for. I was unemployed for a while, an agency said with such a gap they would not put me forward as it was suspicious.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 2, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Re: do agencies blacklist people? well they have things they look out for. I was unemployed for a while, an agency said with such a gap they would not put me forward as it was suspicious.


Suspicious? In this economy, where there are way more people than there are jobs of any kind, never mind full-time permanent? Whoever said that was certainly detached from reality.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 2, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Suspicious? In this economy, where there are way more people than there are jobs of any kind, never mind full-time permanent? Whoever said that was certainly detached from reality.


Well at least I could see their argument. What used to really annoy me was being told I was overqualified. I was applying for jobs I knew I could do but my CV had too much in it. I considered making a smaller CV, fewer jobs, perhaps no degree that sort of thing because it happened so often.


----------



## thriller (Feb 3, 2014)

It's nearly 6 am and I'm up and getting ready to go to Camden for the agency job. Will give it a go and see how it pans out.


----------



## Boppity (Feb 3, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Suspicious? In this economy, where there are way more people than there are jobs of any kind, never mind full-time permanent? Whoever said that was certainly detached from reality.


You're right but it's common in agencies to be wary of CVs with employments gaps over a couple of months.


----------



## thriller (Feb 3, 2014)

Well back home. That was garbage. I was the only person there to answer emails. They had a few systems capturing orders. They expected me to start answering the phones after lunch. I was sitting there thinking, is she serious? How can I learn my way around all this and then start taking calls from customers chasing or asking questions by lunch?

So I left telling them I had got a call offering me a perma job which I cannot turn down. So just over an hour in, I was out of the office.

The agency lady sent a text to call her. I call her and explain. She said this was a new client and I had ruined it for her and "goodluck with your new job hope it works well (in a sarky way) and I will make a note on your file. If you ever apply to us for a job, we-well I, certainly won't help you".

So, that is 3 agencies I am fucked with. Office Angels, Coby Phillips (where I told a recruitment agent in an email to her and the general office email that she was useless) and this agency.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 3, 2014)

thriller said:


> Well back home. That was garbage. I was the only person there to answer emails. They had a few systems capturing orders. They expected me to start answering the phones after lunch. I was sitting there thinking, is she serious? How can I learn my way around all this and then start taking calls from customers chasing or asking questions by lunch?
> 
> So I left telling them I had got a call offering me a perma job which I cannot turn down. So just over an hour in, I was out of the office.
> 
> ...


Have to admit, I don't think you've helped yourself there with the agency - you should have at least stayed the full day. It's really leaving both the company and the agency in the lurch to just walk off like that.

However,I am a little bit surprised that you were just left to it, without someone at least sat with you for a few calls, or shadowing someone for the afternoon so they could show you what to do. Did you ask for either of those options?

What I am saying is that there are ways of leaving an assignment without napalming your agency bridges.


----------



## thriller (Feb 3, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Have to admit, I don't think you've helped yourself there with the agency - you should have at least stayed the full day. It's really leaving both the company and the agency in the lurch to just walk off like that.
> 
> However,I am a little bit surprised that you were just left to it, without someone at least sat with you for a few calls, or shadowing someone for the afternoon so they could show you what to do. Did you ask for either of those options?
> 
> What I am saying is that there are ways of leaving an assignment without napalming your agency bridges.



It was a mistake applying for it in the first place. It was strange. I thought at least give me a day on the emails, get used to the system before expecting me to pick up the phone after lunch.

So, now I'm blacklisted with this agency. At least I have a job to go to tomorrow. They emailed over forms etc-though still no contract. Will give this a full go. Will stick it out for at least a month and get one month's wage in. If I don't like it, I'm gonna leave. 18k is low, but I'm single so besides the usual bills, I don't have any commitments or any other expenditures. After all the direct debits, I will be left with about £645 or something a month which for a single guy is enough-but clearly crap if I want to put away money as savings. But who knows, if it turns out OK, I will probably ask them about salary increase.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 3, 2014)

thriller said:


> It was a mistake applying for it in the first place. It was strange. I thought at least give me a day on the emails, get used to the system before expecting me to pick up the phone after lunch.
> 
> So, now I'm blacklisted with this agency. At least I have a job to go to tomorrow. They emailed over forms etc-though still no contract. Will give this a full go. Will stick it out for at least a month and get one month's wage in. If I don't like it, I'm gonna leave. 18k is low, but I'm single so besides the usual bills, I don't have any commitments or any other expenditures. After all the direct debits, I will be left with about £645 or something a month which for a single guy is enough-but clearly crap if I want to put away money as savings. But who knows, if it turns out OK, I will probably ask them about salary increase.


So what have you learnt from all this?


----------



## thriller (Feb 3, 2014)

Not sure. Choose what jobs I apply for more carefully, I think.


----------



## weltweit (Feb 3, 2014)

Boppity said:


> You're right but it's common in agencies to be wary of CVs with employments gaps over a couple of months.


My gap was quite a bit longer than a couple of months.
One friendly agency chap told me I would probably have more luck with companies that were advertising themselves directly and so it turned out, I got a job with a company who had directly advertised.


----------



## Boppity (Feb 4, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> However,I am a little bit surprised that you were just left to it, without someone at least sat with you for a few calls, or shadowing someone for the afternoon so they could show you what to do.


I have found this surprisingly common I. Temping. It's been about 50/50 whether they bother training so far. I guess in the case of short term cover they don't think it's worth it.


----------



## Boppity (Feb 4, 2014)

thriller said:


> So I left telling them I had got a call offering me a perma job which I cannot turn down. So just over an hour in, I was out of the office.



Well here's why she was so snarky with you. It was an obvious lie. 

What kind of company would call you late on a Monday morning and expect you to go straight round? At the very least they'd have expected you to finish your day there and come on Tuesday - if not the following Monday.

So not only did you leave her in the lurch, you lied to her. No wonder they've black listed you!


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 4, 2014)

thriller said:


> Not sure. Choose what jobs I apply for more carefully, I think.


Stop telling lies, is what you should have learnt, especially to people who are trying to get you a job.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 4, 2014)

How was today thriller ?


----------



## thriller (Feb 5, 2014)

It was OK. Seemed a long day. Will stick with it for a few weeks. The people are very friendly and nice. Bizarrely, still have not been given a contract. They've taken passport photocopy and bank details, but not a word on any contract. Oh well. I'm still looking and applying elsewhere though. So if I get any calls, will defo consider it.


----------



## thriller (Feb 5, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Stop telling lies, is what you should have learnt, especially to people who are trying to get you a job.



There is no other lessons to learn. I need to consider what jobs I'm applying for and focus on one job rather than multiple ones which caused this mess.


----------



## thriller (Feb 5, 2014)

strange, since I got this job, the calls from agencies etc have tried up. I'm still applying elsewhere but still have not had any contact or calls from any companies or agencies.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 5, 2014)

thriller said:


> strange, since I got this job, the calls from agencies etc have tried up. I'm still applying elsewhere but still have not had any contact or calls from any companies or agencies.


Recruitment consultants have contacts across the industry and probably across other recruiters. So don't be surprised if a few careful words have been said to contacts. Yes, it's a breach of the DPA and no, you'll never prove it.

I love how you're talking about walking out on the latest company already. Have you ASKED about the contract?


----------



## thriller (Feb 5, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Recruitment consultants have contacts across the industry and probably across other recruiters. So don't be surprised if a few careful words have been said to contacts. es, it's a breach of the DPA and no, you'll never prove it.
> 
> I love how you're talking about walking out on the latest company already. Have you ASKED about the contract?



I'm not worried about recruiting sharing info. I don't believe that happens- as recruitment agents are too competitive. Even if it did, it would be in a minority. 

No. I haven't asked about any contracts. Will leave it as it means I can walk out when I want. I don't want to be earning 18k for too long, anyway-though 18k is not the end of the world in terms of finance as I'm single. Not too worried about them getting rid of me as I am replacing someone who will be leaving next week. They are also recruiting one more person in the coming weeks.


----------



## JTG (Feb 5, 2014)

RubyToogood said:


> I'm not sure that pulling a sickie in your first week is a winning strategy.


I pulled a sickie on my first _day_ once. Managed over seven years in the job


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 5, 2014)

thriller said:


> I'm not worried about recruiting sharing info. I don't believe that happens- as recruitment agents are too competitive. Even if it did, it would be in a minority.
> 
> No. I haven't asked about any contracts. Will leave it as it means I can walk out when I want. I don't want to be earning 18k for too long, anyway-though 18k is not the end of the world in terms of finance as I'm single. Not too worried about them getting rid of me as I am replacing someone who will be leaving next week. They are also recruiting one more person in the coming weeks.


You're remarkably blase about a lack of contract.

Statutory notice periods etc will be effect unless there is a contract so you may want to brush up on them before you walk off this job. £18k is still better than nothing.


----------



## tufty79 (Feb 5, 2014)

thriller said:


> I'm not worried about recruiting sharing info. I don't believe that happens- as recruitment agents are too competitive. Even if it did, it would be in a minority.


Bless.


----------



## alpha slappa (Feb 5, 2014)

thriller said:


> Will leave it as it means I can walk out when I want. I don't want to be earning 18k for too long



Then leave and give somebody who needs/wants 18k a year a chance instead. Try a bit of time on the dole instead maybe?


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Feb 5, 2014)

My first job was 9k a year. I thought it was loads. (97). I was sacked for my attitude problem. Now I get headhunted for it.


----------



## thriller (Feb 5, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> You're remarkably blase about a lack of contract.
> 
> Statutory notice periods etc will be effect unless there is a contract so you may want to brush up on them before you walk off this job. £18k is still better than nothing.



well the thing is. They really like me. One of the guys came over to shake my hands and said his heard a lot about me. The top dogs seem to have really high hopes for me, but I don't like it as it just puts pressure on me. I can survive a good few months without a job. But a months wages will be handy as it would mean the rent taken care off for another two months. I can't sign on anyway as I walked out on my last job.


----------



## thriller (Feb 5, 2014)

alpha slappa said:


> Then leave and give somebody who needs/wants 18k a year a chance instead.



no.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Feb 5, 2014)

Is there unemployment insurance in the UK?


----------



## Boppity (Feb 5, 2014)

I'd be happy with 18k


----------



## Boppity (Feb 5, 2014)

thriller said:


> I'm not worried about recruiting sharing info. I don't believe that happens- as recruitment agents are too competitive. Even if it did, it would be in a minority.


You're wrong about that, recruiters network with each other.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 5, 2014)

thriller said:


> no.


So, you don't really want a job that pays £18k even though earlier in the thread you said you took it for the prospects and potential promotions, BUT you don't want anyone else to have it.

You're not doing yourself any favours with an attitude like that, really you're not.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 5, 2014)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Is there unemployment insurance in the UK?


Yes, but there are restrictions on it like any type of insurance.

Mine wouldn't cover me jacking in my job but would cover me if I was off sick for an extended period or made redundant, for example.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Feb 5, 2014)

Ah right, my girlfriends union will pay her unemployment cover for a period of time (I think 3 years) based on her last salary. I think she gets about 1500 a month, although shes now on paid maternity for a year. After that, she will have another year to find work until she goes on the dole. All of this seems alien to me, I am a member of a union despite being C level(in fact its weird to find anyone who isnt, even  director and vp level) at her insistence although I am not paying the insurance. I have health insurance from my work so that should cover me if anything goes tits up in that respect but I have never not had a job. I don't think I could handle not having one. 

Just brain farting right now as my gf as been unemployed for 18 months and I trying to think how she feels about it.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 5, 2014)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Ah right, my girlfriends union will pay her unemployment cover for a period of time (I think 3 years) based on her last salary. I think she gets about 1500 a month, although shes now on paid maternity for a year. After that, she will have another year to find work until she goes on the dole. All of this seems alien to me, I am a member of a union despite being C level(in fact its weird to find anyone who isnt, even  director and vp level) at her insistence although I am not paying the insurance. I have health insurance from my work so that should cover me if anything goes tits up in that respect but I have never not had a job. I don't think I could handle not having one.
> 
> Just brain farting right now as my gf as been unemployed for 18 months and I trying to think how she feels about it.


It's a tough jobhunting environment at the moment, really tough, I'd be a gibbering wreck if I had to search for a new job.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Feb 5, 2014)

Then you made me feel very grateful yo be in the position I am in. I have been offered 2 jobs in this week alone.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 5, 2014)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Then you made me feel very grateful yo be in the position I am in. I have been offered 2 jobs in this week alone.


Some industries are starting to pick up, but I've never seen things so bad.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Feb 5, 2014)

What industry are you in?


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 5, 2014)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> What industry are you in?


I'm in Energy. We went through 5 redundancy rounds from 2010 until the end of 2012 and there was going to be one last year but our parent company fired the CEO instead 

We're starting to recruit again now but the redundancies mean we are woefully understaffed and we need to increase staff numbers by a ridiculous percentage to get back to normal.


----------



## thriller (Feb 6, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> I'm in Energy. We went through 5 redundancy rounds from 2010 until the end of 2012 and there was going to be one last year but our parent company fired the CEO instead
> 
> We're starting to recruit again now but the redundancies mean we are woefully understaffed and we need to increase staff numbers by a ridiculous percentage to get back to normal.



Are you in London? How would I apply?


----------



## thriller (Feb 7, 2014)

contract received today. signed.


----------



## Pingu (Feb 8, 2014)

there is a saying i apply to recruitment agencies. As someone who occasionaly needs to obtain staff I get calls all the time form them which can be very annoying. However I am very aware that in my industry the only real way to get a job is via an agency. so...

"be careful of the toes you tread on today as they may be connected to the arse you need to kiss tomorrow"


----------



## Pingu (Feb 8, 2014)

Boppity said:


> You're wrong about that, recruiters network with each other.




and staff move between agencies regulary


----------



## Thimble Queen (Feb 8, 2014)

thriller said:


> Are you in London? How would I apply?


----------



## thriller (Feb 8, 2014)

she went silent after that.


----------



## Boppity (Feb 8, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Some industries are starting to pick up, but I've never seen things so bad.



Funnily enough where I'm working now is under going a massive expansion. Which bodes well for me if I want my position to go permanent.

*FINGERS CROSSED*


----------



## 5t3IIa (Feb 8, 2014)

OP has 0 clue. I'm jealous about how people like that get on in the world. I mean, I'm clever as fuck and it hardly does me any good at all


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 8, 2014)

thriller said:


> Are you in London? How would I apply?


I'm not in London.

To be honest, given your behaviour on this and other threads there's no way I want you working anywhere near me.


----------



## thriller (Feb 8, 2014)

It wasn't meant as a serious question, dumb ass. You r far too sensitive for my liking.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 8, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> So, you don't really want a job that pays £18k even though earlier in the thread you said you took it for the prospects and potential promotions, BUT you don't want anyone else to have it.
> 
> You're not doing yourself any favours with an attitude like that, really you're not.



And he wonders why people treat him like a Millwall fan (Millwall fan unofficial motto: "Nobody likes us, but we don't care!").


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 8, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> And he wonders why people treat him like a Millwall fan (Millwall fan unofficial motto: "Nobody likes us, but we don't care!").


Wait to you see the bit where he wants to apply where I work


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 8, 2014)

thriller said:


> It wasn't meant as a serious question, dumb ass. You r far too sensitive for my liking.


Dumb ass? Sensitive?

Why don't you grow the fuck up, flower? At the rate you're going you'll be unemployable unless you stop acting so precious. And you're welcome for all the advice we gave you on the thread, you ungrateful shitweasel.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 8, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> OP has 0 clue. I'm jealous about how people like that get on in the world. I mean, I'm clever as fuck and it hardly does me any good at all



You can bet that for all his bragging about how his current employers have high hopes for him, he's probably gone straight in there and rammed his tongue up as many arses as possible.


----------



## thriller (Feb 8, 2014)

Told you. Far too sensitive.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 8, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Wait to you see the bit where he wants to apply where I work



I just did.  I made a very undignified snorting sound when I read it.  Who'd want a jobbie like that working with them?  Can you imagine being the person responsible for bringing that waster into your company?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 8, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Dumb ass? Sensitive?
> 
> Why don't you grow the fuck up, flower? At the rate you're going you'll be unemployable unless you stop acting so precious. And you're welcome for all the advice we gave you on the thread, you ungrateful shitweasel.



Why expect gratitude from someone whose every post reeks of his self-love, and the fact that he doesn't give a wet fart for anyone else but himself?


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 8, 2014)

thriller said:


> Told you. Far too sensitive.


At least I don't trample all over people to get what I want.


----------



## Dowie (Feb 10, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> You're right.  You've the right to get a copy of the personal data they hold on you under s7 of the DPA, and they are obliged to inform you when they respond to such a request things like the purpose for which they are processing it, the sources of the data, and so on.  All this is specified in s7 so they are under a legal obligation to comply with this.
> 
> They can only retain data for as long as it is necessary to do so for the purpose(s) it is being processed for, and should have a records retention policy in place which they can show you which clearly outlines this.  Any retention period must be justified under the Act.
> 
> If they are sharing data with other organisations they have to ensure they comply with the DPA as well.



Realistically though I'm not sure the DPA is actually enforced properly in the private sector. While I'm sure they'll hand over some data they have stored about you as a token gesture when requested & appear willing to comply etc..  I doubt they'll willingly admit to sharing info etc.. if it were apparent they'd breached any rules and it was to get them in hot water - they're unlikely to actively incriminate themselves. Looking at the enforcement of it it seems to be mostly public bodies on the receiving end of fines though I'm sure plenty of private sector orgs out there breach it regularly.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 10, 2014)

Dowie said:


> Realistically though I'm not sure the DPA is actually enforced properly in the private sector. While I'm sure they'll hand over some data they have stored about you as a token gesture when requested & appear willing to comply etc..  I doubt they'll willingly admit to sharing info etc.. if it were apparent they'd breached any rules and it was to get them in hot water - they're unlikely to actively incriminate themselves. Looking at the enforcement of it it seems to be mostly public bodies on the receiving end of fines though I'm sure plenty of private sector orgs out there breach it regularly.


Never underestimate the effects of stupidity, thoughtlessness or arrogance, or any combination thereof.


----------



## JTG (Feb 10, 2014)

Dowie said:


> Realistically though I'm not sure the DPA is actually enforced properly in the private sector. While I'm sure they'll hand over some data they have stored about you as a token gesture when requested & appear willing to comply etc..  I doubt they'll willingly admit to sharing info etc.. if it were apparent they'd breached any rules and it was to get them in hot water - they're unlikely to actively incriminate themselves. Looking at the enforcement of it it seems to be mostly public bodies on the receiving end of fines though I'm sure plenty of private sector orgs out there breach it regularly.


Depends - I've worked for a very large company who (so far as I could tell) were absolutely robust in their DPA procedures. All staff regularly trained, regs adhered to etc
Otoh, another large company I've done work for, there was a complete absence of training, procedures etc. When I asked, I got a confused look


----------



## Dowie (Feb 10, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Never underestimate the effects of stupidity, thoughtlessness or arrogance, or any combination thereof.



I'm not sure what point you're making with regards to underestimating stupidity etc.. I'm pointing out that enforcement action is seemingly overwhelmingly carried out against the public sector and assuming that this is because investigation of/discovery of breaches from the private sector is perhaps flawed? Are you suggesting that I'm simply underestimating the stupidity of the public sector in regards to their seemingly disproportionate amount of fines.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 10, 2014)

Dowie said:


> I'm not sure what point you're making with regards to underestimating stupidity etc.. I'm pointing out that enforcement action is seemingly overwhelmingly carried out against the public sector and assuming that this is because investigation of/discovery of breaches from the private sector is perhaps flawed? Are you suggesting that I'm simply underestimating the stupidity of the public sector in regards to their seemingly disproportionate amount of fines.


I wasn't making any remarks against the public sector.

You haven't posted any sources for your assertion that enforcements are overwhelming against those organisations in the public sector, for a start, which would be helpful in supporting your point. It may be that there are at least that many transgressions in the private sector (due to stupidity, thoughtlessness or arrogance, or combinations thereof) but the vast majority are dealt with under gag orders/injunctions (if such a thing is possible), or that any transgression is dwarfed by e.g. HMRC losing 5 million sets of details on a computer disc.

Most breaches aren't deliberate or malicious, to be honest.


----------



## Dowie (Feb 10, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> It may be that there are at least that many transgressions in the private sector (due to stupidity, thoughtlessness or arrogance, or combinations thereof) but the vast majority are dealt with under gag orders/injunctions (if such a thing is possible), or that any transgression is dwarfed by e.g. HMRC losing 5 million sets of details on a computer disc.
> 
> Most breaches aren't deliberate or malicious, to be honest.



Well I'd say its quite likely there are breaches in the private sector for those reasons... so I'm still not seeing where any underestimation of those things comes in when my point is that it likely does go on in the private sector but is significantly under-enforced.

In terms of sources - it was just something I was aware of previously - though a quick google search has given the below data for 2012 - looking at the list of fines it seems to be overwhelmingly public sector - which is why I'm a bit skeptical of the effectiveness of enforcement with regards to the private sector... 

http://brianpennington.co.uk/2012/0...tion-act-in-2012-find-the-complete-list-here/


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 10, 2014)

Dowie said:


> Well I'd say its quite likely there are breaches in the private sector for those reasons... so I'm still not seeing where any underestimation of those things comes in when my point is that it likely does go on in the private sector but is significantly under-enforced.
> 
> In terms of sources - it was just something I was aware of previously - though a quick google search has given the below data for 2012 - looking at the list of fines it seems to be overwhelmingly public sector - which is why I'm a bit skeptical of the effectiveness of enforcement with regards to the private sector...
> 
> http://brianpennington.co.uk/2012/0...tion-act-in-2012-find-the-complete-list-here/


If you look at the 2012 penalty actions, the most serious offences resulting in a monetary penalty invariably deal with wholesale loss, misuse or misplacement of sensitive personal data such as medical information (e.g. patient records) or social care information. Due to the nature of the information itself, only public sector bodies are likely to be in possession of that type of data in the first place. Not taking care of this information correctly (taking files to the pub and the bag containing them being stolen, for example) results in the fines because it's such a serious breach.

Four organisations were prosecuted in 2012 and three out of the four were private organisations.

What it does highlight is that perhaps certain public sector bodies need to raise awareness of information security issues, including the DPA, and ensure all staff are aware of the seriousness of information security issues.

There's been some heavy fines levied against private organisations in 2013, e.g. First Financial Limited got a £175k fine for spamming mobiles with text messages about payday loans.
http://ico.org.uk/enforcement/fines

As for prosecutions, in 2013 there were seven of which three were with private organisations. The remaining 4 were for inappropriate access of medical data and personal data sold on by a probation officer.
http://ico.org.uk/enforcement/prosecutions


----------



## thriller (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm not getting any responses to jobs I'm applying for. It's gone dead quiet. I think I'm stuck here for a while.


----------



## Boppity (Feb 10, 2014)

thriller said:


> I'm not getting any responses to jobs I'm applying for. It's gone dead quiet. I think I'm stuck here for a while.


I'm shocked.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 10, 2014)

thriller said:


> I'm not getting any responses to jobs I'm applying for. It's gone dead quiet. I think I'm stuck here for a while.


Gosh, _really_? What could _possibly_ be the problem?
ffs


----------



## thriller (Feb 10, 2014)

but hopefully will pick up after a few weeks.....or months... 

but of course that will raise the question of employers asking why I am leaving present company soo quickly after I joined.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 10, 2014)

thriller said:


> but hopefully will pick up after a few weeks.....or months...
> 
> but of course that will raise the question of employers asking why I am leaving present company soo quickly after I joined.


Look you'll do better if you can stick it out for 6 months. You'll also learn a lot if you stay put for a bit. It won't kill you.

Let this be a lesson to you as well.


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## Mr Retro (Feb 11, 2014)

I worked in the IT dept. of recruitment consultancies and agencies for many many years. All of them will have some form of warning system not to send people like thriller for jobs. 

To win a contract to supply people takes a hell of a lot of work and a load of cost to win and maintain. Why would they risk that by sending kids starting their career who still think they are in school/college and who don't give a shit out to the client?

I don't think they share info per se but consultants tend to move a lot and have long memories. So if they are sending somebody they will shout out to to an open plan office "sending a guy called thriller, anybody heard of him?". If somebody you've fucked about has heard of you in a previous job, then you won't be sent and you'll get a note on your file in the agency too. The more people you fuck about the more chance you have of being "blacklisted" in more places.


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## thriller (Mar 14, 2014)

well. didn't pass my probation.

The called me to a meeting and said, unfortunately we will have to make this your last day, you have failed your probation period.

was planning to stay till May and then hand in the notice, but looks like they beat me to the punch. 

have just applied for JSA online.


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## Boppity (Mar 14, 2014)

Did they say why you failed?


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## thriller (Mar 14, 2014)

Boppity said:


> Did they say why you failed?



yeah. apparently I was not enthusiastic with customers on the phone and was making some mistakes that after a month they felt I should not be making. the enthusiasm bit is right in that these were trade customers I was dealing with and are a rather different breed to ordinary customers. these trade lot think their shop is Harrods or Selfridges so every order is of vital importance to them. they are very demanding. anything goes wrong it's a case of I want this or that done. I got customers waiting on me etc. one guy whose order had not got to him kept insisting I organise a taxi to get his replacement sent or that he can send a van to pick up his replacement from the warehouse despite us not doing collections from warehouse. in the end his order arrived on time.  of course he then apologised but it was because he had a very important client who he needed the items for. 

the mistake bit was things stupid like making sure company names were capital letters etc.

I've applied for JSA and stated I left because I failed my probation.


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## equationgirl (Mar 15, 2014)

So other than applying for JSA what are your plans?

Sorry it didn't work out for you.


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## thriller (Mar 15, 2014)

Thanks.

Got to find another job. And apply for Housing Benefit.

I just hope the Job centre don't mess me around with the application. Yes, I failed my probation, but the job priory to that, I left on my own accord. So I'm hoping they won't use that as an excuse to not give me JSA.


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## thriller (Mar 17, 2014)

first day out of work and at home searching online job sites........


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## equationgirl (Mar 17, 2014)

thriller said:


> first day out of work and at home searching online job sites........


Anything so far?


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## thriller (Mar 17, 2014)

nope. The phone went off around 1 pm ish. Thought it might be a job I applied for; but it was the job centre booking me in for interview on Wednesday. 

Early days, though....Early days.............


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## butchersapron (Mar 17, 2014)

I'd blacklist you you prick.


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## 5t3IIa (Mar 17, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I'd blacklist you you prick.



snoprt


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## equationgirl (Mar 17, 2014)

thriller said:


> nope. The phone went off around 1 pm ish. Thought it might be a job I applied for; but it was the job centre booking me in for interview on Wednesday.
> 
> Early days, though....Early days.............


You're going to have to try different agencies this time. And apply for a lot more jobs. You're proven yourself to be unreliable, no agency will send you if you've screwed them over.

Perhaps you won't take things so much for granted this time round.


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## thriller (Mar 17, 2014)

We shall see. If the phone does not crink crink by thursday at least once- it's gonna be worrying.


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## thriller (Mar 18, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> You're going to have to try different agencies this time. And apply for a lot more jobs. You're proven yourself to be unreliable, no agency will send you if you've screwed them over.
> 
> Perhaps you won't take things so much for granted this time round.



Need some advice. Got a call from an agency putting my cv to a company. Good. Now since I failed by probation, I still put down this company on my CV-but claimed it was just a contract job. The guy who failed my probation said, for reference, he will just say I worked here from this date to that date. I'm hoping my stating it was one month contract job, I can blag this. Should I have just left this job out of my CV?


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## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2014)

thriller said:


> Need some advice. Got a call from an agency putting my cv to a company. Good. Now since I failed by probation, I still put down this company on my CV-but claimed it was just a contract job. The guy who failed my probation said, for reference, he will just say I worked here from this date to that date. I'm hoping my stating it was one month contract job, I can blag this. Should I have just left this job out of my CV?


No keep it in. Everyone knows temp gigs can be a few days, weeks or months so no worries.


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## thriller (Mar 18, 2014)

my worry is that that is all he said he is going to say. Just that I worked on those dates. Nothing else like I was excellent or whatever.


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## Manter (Mar 18, 2014)

thriller said:


> my worry is that that is all he said he is going to say. Just that I worked on those dates. Nothing else like I was excellent or whatever.


That's what all references are these days


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## dervish (Mar 18, 2014)

thriller said:


> my worry is that that is all he said he is going to say. Just that I worked on those dates. Nothing else like I was excellent or whatever.



Since you didn't pass your probation, why would they say that? They aren't going to lie for you. All you can expect is that they will confirm the dates you worked. Hope they don't mention that it was a permanent position, they have every right to.


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## Corax (Mar 18, 2014)

So you're lying on another application?


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## thriller (Mar 18, 2014)

dervish said:


> Hope they don't mention that it was a permanent position, they have every right to.



That is what scares me


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## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2014)

thriller said:


> my worry is that that is all he said he is going to say. Just that I worked on those dates. Nothing else like I was excellent or whatever.


Well you weren't excellent, were you! If you were, you'd have been kept on for longer.

I'd hoped you would have learnt from this latest episode.


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## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2014)

thriller said:


> That is what scares me


To be honest, anyone can fail a probation period, because it's about how the new person fits in an existing team, their temperament etc. If asked a direct question, give a direct answer but don't lie.


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## thriller (Mar 18, 2014)

Too late though. I already stated on the CV that it was contract. I hope when they ask for reference, it doesn't get found out (if it gets to that stage).


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## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2014)

thriller said:


> Too late though. I already stated on the CV that it was contract. I hope when they ask for reference, it doesn't get found out (if it gets to that stage).


Then change your CV now so it doesn't happen again. And ffs learn from all this. Stop lying. Stop trying to hedge your bets all the time.


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## Corax (Mar 18, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Then change your CV now so it doesn't happen again. And ffs learn from all this. Stop lying. Stop trying to hedge your bets all the time.


And try to spare some thought for the poor bastards you're fucking around. They're mostly going to be wage slaves trying to earn a crust too, not big city bankers spending their days in bathtubs full of champagne and coke.


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## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2014)

Corax said:


> And try to spare some thought for the poor bastards you're fucking around. They're mostly going to be wage slaves trying to earn a crust too, not big city bankers spending their days in bathtubs full of champagne and coke.


Basically, thriller, stop thinking of yourself all the time, sort yourself out and grow up.


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## thriller (Mar 18, 2014)

TBH, if this goes belly up, I'm just gonna leave it out my CV from now on. I've been applying for jobs with this. But if I can get an interview from this call but fail because of it, I'll leave it out and just say I was abroad or not actively looking for a job.


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## dervish (Mar 18, 2014)

So your going to lie. Again.


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## Corax (Mar 18, 2014)

dervish said:


> So your going to lie. Again.


Quite. FFS. This is the kind of shit that gives the Mail ammunition


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## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2014)

thriller said:


> TBH, if this goes belly up, I'm just gonna leave it out my CV from now on. I've been applying for jobs with this. But if I can get an interview from this call but fail because of it, I'll leave it out and just say I was abroad or not actively looking for a job.


If this goes belly up, as you put it, it's because you lied. Take some fucking responsibility and grow up. Saying you were abroad or not actively looking for work is completely implausible anyway, so your lie will get you precisely nowhere.

ffs thriller take a look at yourself.


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## Mr Retro (Mar 19, 2014)

To paraphrase Don Cheadle in The Guard I really can’t tell if thriller is really mother fucking dumb or a really mother fucking smart troll.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 20, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> Yes, ime. And why not? You lied on your CV  They have no obligation to you.
> 
> There are plenty of other agencies, but personally I'm not sure I'd risk getting on the 'Do Not Employ' list of yet another one





equationgirl said:


> I think you need to understand what blacklisting really is. There's a thread about blacklisting in the construction industry in P&P if you're interested.
> 
> Recruitment agencies are far too busy to reply to every single CV submitted to them. The fact that you lied to Office Angels once certainly won't go in your favour. Agencies need reliable people they can send out who won't lose them contracts. If you tell them you've been offered a permanent job and you're going to take it, they'll not think twice about it. Screw them over by throwing a sickie and you won't get work through that agency again.



Can't believe these 2 slid past without comment. Agency work is a pretty sizeable chunk of all work. Firstly, there's a difference between "having no obligation to someone" and keeping information about them and things they've done years ago and denying them work as a result. Maybe we're not sympathetic about people lying on their CVs, but it could just as easily be people making a fuss about their entitlements or problems with health and safety. Even if they aren't sharing that info (and a lot on this thread seem to be suggesting they do), then they're still shutting people out of bits of the job market based on their specious opinions on their value as a worker.

And secondly, keeping a list of people for the purposes of denying them work IS blacklisting, whether it comes in the conventional form or not. In fact, in many ways it's actually more limiting than blacklisting has been historically. It's a national database ffs. We should be recognising here that agencies keeping details of personal "misdemeanours", often for long periods of time, is wrong. Also the idea that we owe anything to agencies that essentially profit through monopolising sectors of the jobs market and taking money off the top for the work that their "reliable people" do is ridiculous, as is the idea that you're somehow "screwing them over" by not being a model employee.


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## 5t3IIa (Mar 20, 2014)

I'll leave these good points to you Lo Siento. I was speaking from personal experience, and shock tactics (that obvs don't and won't work for the OP) and no wider point so I withdraw.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 20, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> I'll leave these good points to you Lo Siento. I was speaking from personal experience, and shock tactics (that obvs don't and won't work for the OP) and no wider point so I withdraw.


Fair enough. Wasn't meaning to have a go, just think normalising the idea of agencies having these sorts of powers needs fighting...


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## equationgirl (Mar 20, 2014)

I think there's a difference between keeping a list, in any form, and (as someone previously posted) asking around the office 'about to send EG on a job, anybody used them before?'.


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## Mr Retro (Mar 23, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> Can't believe these 2 slid past without comment. Agency work is a pretty sizeable chunk of all work. Firstly, there's a difference between "having no obligation to someone" and keeping information about them and things they've done years ago and denying them work as a result. Maybe we're not sympathetic about people lying on their CVs, but it could just as easily be people making a fuss about their entitlements or problems with health and safety. Even if they aren't sharing that info (and a lot on this thread seem to be suggesting they do), then they're still shutting people out of bits of the job market based on their specious opinions on their value as a worker.
> 
> And secondly, keeping a list of people for the purposes of denying them work IS blacklisting, whether it comes in the conventional form or not. In fact, in many ways it's actually more limiting than blacklisting has been historically. It's a national database ffs. We should be recognising here that agencies keeping details of personal "misdemeanours", often for long periods of time, is wrong. Also the idea that we owe anything to agencies that essentially profit through monopolising sectors of the jobs market and taking money off the top for the work that their "reliable people" do is ridiculous, as is the idea that you're somehow "screwing them over" by not being a model employee.



Any agency I know don't shut people out based on specious options, they do it on solid evidence. I don't think anywhere on this thread are people claiming they don't have good reasons. Using thriller as an example they are perfectly entitled to shut him out and perfectly correct to share their experience of using thriller with colleagues. 

As already stated no employer keeps a blacklist per se but they do keep simple notes on peoples personal file. These are always in my experience factual and again in thrillers case alarm bells would be ringing loud and he wouldn't be sent out.

Where are people claiming we owe agencies anything? It's a reciprocal agreement. The agency finds you work, you agree to be at least moderately reliable. I don't think that's too much of an agency to ask for, why should they deal with somebody who isn't keeping their part of the agreement causing them to lose business?


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 23, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Any agency I know don't shut people out based on specious options, they do it on solid evidence. I don't think anywhere on this thread are people claiming they don't have good reasons. Using thriller as an example they are perfectly entitled to shut him out and perfectly correct to share their experience of using thriller with colleagues.
> 
> As already stated no employer keeps a blacklist per se but they do keep simple notes on peoples personal file. These are always in my experience factual and again in thrillers case alarm bells would be ringing loud and he wouldn't be sent out.
> 
> Where are people claiming we owe agencies anything? It's a reciprocal agreement. The agency finds you work, you agree to be at least moderately reliable. I don't think that's too much of an agency to ask for, why should they deal with somebody who isn't keeping their part of the agreement causing them to lose business?



"Solid evidence"

"Simple notes on people's personal life"

"The agency finds you work"

Parasitical, blacklisting scum.


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## Mr Retro (Mar 23, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> "Solid evidence"
> 
> "Simple notes on people's personal life"
> 
> ...


You are misrepresenting or ignoring mine and other peoples fair comments on the thread to make your point and are therefore not worth engaging with.


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 23, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> You are misrepresenting or ignoring mine and other peoples fair comments on the thread to make your point and are therefore not worth engaging with.


 
One of the people I quoted actually agreed with me, so evidently it's just you with a problem with my level of engagement. 
But since you insist on me repeating my points. 

(a) Any private organisation that keep a database with lists of people, noting their past misdemeanours, using that list as a basis for denying them employment is maintaining a blacklist. If it was any other type of organisation other than a recruitment agency we wouldn't even be having this conversation it would be so obvious.
(b) Sharing that information with other agencies in order to further exclude people from parts of the labour market is particularly contemptible. 
(c) Any evidence or notes collated by people who have no accountability nor legal regulation is going to be specious. Particularly when it is often based on the equally specious opinions of the employers within workers are placed. Even the most ethically pure recruitment agent has no right to be collating this sort of information. 
(d) If all of this took place between regular employers, it would be illegal. When applying for a job, I'm allowed to specify who should be sought for a reference, and I'm allowed to see the reference provided and potentially sue the referee for damages if the reference is unfair. Unfairness in this case would mean, for example, detailing misdemeanours for which they had not issued a formal warning. 
(e) All the above would only apply to one employer giving information about one job to one other employer. In a recruitment agency's case, not only is there no regulation, but on top of that the information is in effect being used to weigh my employability for every single job that is advertised with that agency.
(f) Employment agencies don't create or find jobs for anyone, they act as a parasitical middle man. If they were made illegal tomorrow the only people who would suffer would be their own direct employees.


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## Mr Retro (Mar 23, 2014)

You don't know what you are talking about, but thanks for the long winded, mainly incorrect post


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## Lo Siento. (Mar 23, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> You don't know what you are talking about, but thanks for the long winded, mainly incorrect post



Oh go on, do tell us all about the wonderful service that recruitment agencies give to humanity, and how their blacklists are good blacklists as opposed to the regular kind


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## Mr Retro (Mar 23, 2014)

Lo Siento. said:


> Oh go on, do tell us all about the wonderful service that recruitment agencies give to humanity, and how their blacklists are good blacklists as opposed to the regular kind


Thanks again


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