# FFS another bus fare increase



## Awesome Wells (Jul 23, 2009)

Fucks sake when are people going to stand up to these greedy cunts at First? When are the drivers going to do something about it (they moan enough about copping flak from customers), probably too busy standing around smoking (which is why the buses are always late the lazy shitbags). When is the government going to fucking sort this bunch of wankers out. I'm fucked off with this. Yet again we get gouged and yet again there'll be some bullshit excuse about the cost of insurance or oil or whatever bollocks their toadies will come out with. 

I'm going to ring these cunts in the morning and swear as loudly as I can at them.


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## Geri (Jul 24, 2009)

I saw some notices on the bus lastw eek but didn't pay much attention. I did notice that the price of a FirstWeek has actually gone down.

What tickets are affected by the rise?


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 24, 2009)

all of them as far as I can tell. Some are staying the same until October. I don't use the city buses so I don't know.


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## Geri (Jul 24, 2009)

Hmm, we'll see in the morning when I get the bus into town. It's normally £2.70 return.


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 25, 2009)

Doesn't come into effect till sunday.


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## Geri (Jul 25, 2009)

We'll see on Snday when I get the bus into town then.


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## electrogirl (Jul 25, 2009)

Bus prices in Bristol are a skank, and the buses are shit anyway.


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## Geri (Jul 25, 2009)

We have posh new buses on our route now. They said they were going to write to all the households on the route and offer free Firstday tickets, but I haven't had any letter. I think I am on their blacklist for complaining about them to my MP and the Transport Commissioner.


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## electrogirl (Jul 25, 2009)

I pretty uch walk everywhere anyway but the buses from South Bristol are terrible, I think I got one when I went home ill from work and it went all over the shop and cost me a fortune.


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## Geri (Jul 25, 2009)

I hardly use them either, mostly at weekends or if I am going out straight from work. I went to my friend's house in Knowle and it was £2.20 - it's closer to town than my house, but 40p more!


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## electrogirl (Jul 25, 2009)

It's seriously ridiculous, they're really unreliable aswell, the amount of times the last bus wouldn't turn up when I used to have to catch it after ashift at the hippo was disgusting. The last bus!


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## ajdown (Jul 25, 2009)

A single cash fare on any London bus is £2, even if you're only going one stop or from one end of the route to the other.

Bristol buses probably aren't that bad comparatively.


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## Geri (Jul 25, 2009)

ajdown said:


> A single cash fare on any London bus is £2, even if you're only going one stop or from one end of the route to the other.
> 
> Bristol buses probably aren't that bad comparatively.



They are officially the worst in the country.


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## ajdown (Jul 25, 2009)

I know, they're legendary, the Wurzels even wrote a song about Bristol buses


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## electrogirl (Jul 25, 2009)

The majority of Bristol bus drivers are utter tossers aswell. God I fucking hate Bristol buses.


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## Geri (Jul 25, 2009)

electrogirl said:


> The majority of Bristol bus driversare utter tossers aswell. God I fucking hate Bristol buses.



One of them shouted at me because he drove past the stop and I told him I wanted to get off. He said "You should have rang the bell then!" I said "I did ring the bell" and he started arguing with me, so I just got off and said "OK, whatever" 

I had rang the bell, but although the light came on to say bus stopping, it didn't actually make a noise for some reason. How am I supposed to know if they can see the light or not - I assume if someone rings the bell it gives them some kind of signal, they don't just rely in hearing the ting. 

Why did he think I got out of my seat and went and stood by the door - for fun?


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## maldwyn (Jul 25, 2009)

ajdown said:


> A single cash fare on any London bus is £2, even if you're only going one stop or from one end of the route to the other.
> Bristol buses probably aren't that bad comparatively.


London doesn't seem too bad in comparison.

I’ve never paid paid the £2 cash fare on a London bus, with an Oystercard it’s a £1 -  0r £3.30 unlimited use for a day.

Does Bristol offer a half fare scheme for the unemployed?


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## Geri (Jul 25, 2009)

maldwyn said:


> Does Bristol offer a half fare scheme for the unemployed?



No, although old folks and people who are disabled get free travel.


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## electrogirl (Jul 25, 2009)

Geri said:


> One of them shouted at me because he drove past the stop and I told him I wanted to get off. He said "You should have rang the bell then!" I said "I did ring the bell" and he started arguing with me, so I just got off and said "OK, whatever"
> 
> I had rang the bell, but although the light came on to say bus stopping, it didn't actually make a noise for some reason. How am I supposed to know if they can see the light or not - I assume if someone rings the bell it gives them some kind of signal, they don't just rely in hearing the ting.
> 
> Why did he think I got out of my seat and went and stood by the door - for fun?



God! Maybe he thought you wanted to be near his vibrant and joyful aura?!

I swear they must either employ the most angry and resentful people in the whole of Bristol, or they treat them so badly that any sparkle they once had gets smashed out of them.

I mean, they just seem to LOVE being angry. You can't even ask them a question about the bustimes or services or whatever without them acting like you've asked them if you can shit on their face or something.

Lots of them can't even bring themselves to vocalise the price of the fare so you have to say 'sorry how much is it?' while they roll their eyes and mumble something under their breath that you can't hear anyway.

I must say, they're not ALL bad but this has been my general experience. The fact that I can remember the nice ones vividly whereas the bad ones just fall into a big mesh of horrible grumpiness says alot I think.


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## Geri (Jul 25, 2009)

I think they start off as normal human beings, but gradually turn into grumpy twats.

Although in their defence, I would turn into a grumpy twat if I had to deal with all the idiots they have to deal with every day. I have no patience at all for idiotic members of the public.

I always try to have the right change, I said hi when I get on and thanks when I get off, even when their erratic driving has flung me down the stairs and caused me to end up with bruises.


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## _angel_ (Jul 25, 2009)

Geri said:


> I hardly use them either, mostly at weekends or if I am going out straight from work. I went to my friend's house in Knowle and it was £2.20 - it's closer to town than my house, but 40p more!



Discovered a single trip from Leeds on peak was £2.50! That is taking the piss. There aren't any concessions for benefits or unemployed as far as I know here, either.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 25, 2009)

Bristol. *shakes head*


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## Gerry1time (Jul 25, 2009)

One thing i think could really improve things with the buses and their usage generally is a decent website for the service. Currently finding fare or journey information is an absolute nightmare, one of the least usable web systems i've seen for years. You could do something good using googlemaps to plot where the buses actually go, perhaps even pick a start point, an end point and the time you need to be at your destination, and it tells you when and where you need to get the bus from, as well as how much it will cost. You could also add to it a big clear form for complaining to first, which emails your comments to them, cc'ing your local councillor based on your postcode.

Meh, just thinking out loud, but those are some of the easiest things to fix about the service for me. Making it easier to register your complaint, and allowing councillors to see the strength of feeling over this might also have an impact on the fares and quality of service issues too.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 25, 2009)

Buses are one thing which tend to be much pricier outside London.  If you've got an Oyster card (which is an incredibly easy thing to acquire, and there's no lower or upper limit on how much credit it can have, so there's no reason to pay cash fares at all - I just view the Oyster fares as the fares in London, the cash fares are a penalty fare) then even with Boris's new increase it's still only 1.05 to go anywhere in London on the bus, which is incredible.  It costs 1.80 to go from here in High Heaton to Newcastle centre by bus, which is scandalous considering the wages in the two cities.


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## Crispy (Jul 25, 2009)

ajdown said:


> A single cash fare on any London bus is £2, even if you're only going one stop or from one end of the route to the other.
> 
> Bristol buses probably aren't that bad comparatively.



London is _spoiled_ for buses. Only a quid on oyster (which everyone has, hardly anyone pays the cash fare). Night buses almost everywhere for no extra.

Bristol buses are SHITE. First have a monopoly and there's no TfL-like body that can set routes and fares, so if it's not profitable, they won't run a bus.


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## ajdown (Jul 25, 2009)

Looks like it's going to get even worse in Bristol.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/8168601.stm

They're getting our reject Bendy Buses.


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## Sunspots (Jul 25, 2009)

ajdown said:


> Looks like it's going to get even worse in Bristol.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/8168601.stm
> 
> They're getting our reject Bendy Buses.



As a cyclist in Bristol, I'm now having visions of one day getting cut up by a bendy bus as it takes a left turn.  

Apart from that though, why do people seem to hate them so much?


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## ajdown (Jul 25, 2009)

They bounce about a lot, they sacrifice comfort for standing room, the 3 doors confuse foreign tourists who try and get on the back door of "regular" buses then wonder why the driver shouts at them, and although they've supposedly been fixed now, they did have a regular habit of catching fire when first introduced.


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## Sunspots (Jul 25, 2009)

ajdown said:


> ...although they've supposedly been fixed now, they did have a regular habit of catching fire when first introduced.



Ah yes, I've heard mention on Urban of this quite a few times.


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## ajdown (Jul 25, 2009)

Sunspots said:


> Ah yes, I've heard mention on Urban of this quite a few times.



... and it seems when they do go up, they don't make a half assed job of it.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jul 25, 2009)

Sunspots said:


> Apart from that though, why do people seem to hate them so much?



Because the Daily Mail / Evening Standard decided to campaign against them because Ken introduced them and Boris jumped on the bandwagon.  If Ken hadn't, they would have campaigned about how dreadful it was Ken keeping Routemasters and accused Ken of murder every time someone fell off the platform of one...

The "OMG it's dreadful, people are forced to stand" argument is a bit thin when you (try to) travel on a non-bendy bus, can't get on because there's people stood like sardines between the front and middle doors, but loads of empty seats upstairs and at the back...

and i don't quite understand why cyclists try to 'overtake' large vehicles (be that HGV's or buses, whether bendy or non-bendy) on the nearside when said vehicles are indicating they are about to make a left turn...


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## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Night buses almost everywhere for no extra.


no night buses to fucking east finchley library


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## Sunspots (Jul 25, 2009)

Puddy_Tat said:


> and i don't quite understand why cyclists try to 'overtake' large vehicles (be that HGV's or buses, whether bendy or non-bendy) on the nearside when said vehicles are indicating they are about to make a left turn...



Personally, I'd never try to do that.  Far too risky!


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## Sunspots (Jul 25, 2009)

Anyway, getting vaguely back on track to the OP...  

I've had to rely on First Bus to get me into central Bristol and back a few times this week, and it's cost me almost £4 each time.  This equates to £1 per mile, and that's before these latest price increases.  

(-Thankfully it isn't, but if the cost of the National Express coach to London and back was similarly a £1 per mile, it'd cost me something like £230.  Not even the train is that pricey. )

First Bus are taking the piss, as usual; we need them to lose their monopoly.


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## High Voltage (Jul 25, 2009)

Probably be cheaper to run a car then!!


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## Sunspots (Jul 25, 2009)

High Voltage said:


> Probably be cheaper to run a car then!!



Cycle; it's even cheaper!  

-It'd...er...  take me about a week to get to London and back though...


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## Maurice Picarda (Jul 25, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Bristol buses are SHITE. First have a monopoly and there's no TfL-like body that can set routes and fares, so if it's not profitable, they won't run a bus.


 
Last year's Transport Act gives top-tier councils much, much more power over bus companies; unprofitable and profitable routes can be bundled as take-it-or-leave it packages to operators. They can even set up Integrated Transport Authorities like the ones in metropolitan counties, which means much more control over pricing.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Jul 26, 2009)

Crispy said:


> (which everyone has, hardly anyone pays the cash fare).



That said, when I first went back to London after they had already been in place a few years, I had no issues in turning straight up at Heathrow and getting one, but a couple of days later I went to an old mate's house and he was complaining about bus fares being 2 quid now, and I said but it's only about a quid with the oyster, and he looked as me as if i'd confessed to being a serial killer and said why would he have an oyster card.


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 26, 2009)

a return journey of around 20miles total is going to cost me £7 now. That's over half my shopping budget. Unfortunately that's the only way i can get to the shops that sell stuff!

First's efficiency would double if they hired people who didn't smoke like old boilers.


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 26, 2009)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Last year's Transport Act gives top-tier councils much, much more power over bus companies; unprofitable and profitable routes can be bundled as take-it-or-leave it packages to operators. They can even set up Integrated Transport Authorities like the ones in metropolitan counties, which means much more control over pricing.


local council here is toothless. First have a monopoly and that is the problem. Without serious competition all the pwoers in the world won't make a difference. At worst First will just take their toys and leave the playground.


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## bristolradio (Jul 26, 2009)

So, how much is a Dayrider now?


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## strung out (Jul 26, 2009)

Awesome Wells said:


> First's efficiency would double if they hired people who didn't smoke like old boilers.



eh?


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## Geri (Jul 26, 2009)

My single fare into town has gone up from £1.80 to £1.85.

It now costs me £3.50 from town to Pill, last time I went there on the bus I think it was £3.25.


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 26, 2009)

the drivers spend all their time standing around smoking, even when they should be driving the bus i'm standing in a q for.


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## strung out (Jul 26, 2009)

never seen that happening before and iirc, there are fairly strong penalties for drivers who don't keep to the correct times on the timetable (traffic jams etc aside). agree about the prices being ridiculous though.


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## Geri (Jul 26, 2009)

The buses from the bus station often leave late.


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## strung out (Jul 26, 2009)

yeah, i agree that the busses are a load of shite (used to live out near cribs and it was always a nightmare getting buses into town at the correct time). however i'm pretty sure that buses being made late due to the driver having a fag would be fairly rare considering that drivers have been disciplined in the past for being too early! i'm guessing that if drivers are standing around having cigarettes instead of driving their buses, then it'll either be because they're running early and need to get back on schedule, or because they're idiots who won't be in the employment of the company for much longer.


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## Puddy_Tat (Jul 26, 2009)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Last year's Transport Act gives top-tier councils much, much more power over bus companies; unprofitable and profitable routes can be bundled as take-it-or-leave it packages to operators. They can even set up Integrated Transport Authorities like the ones in metropolitan counties, which means much more control over pricing.



In theory, yes.

In practice, the 'quality contract schemes' referred to here have been around since the 2000 Transport Act (the 2008 Act makes the process a bit easier) - broadly speaking, each council is waiting for someone else to do it first, and go through the legal challenges and so on.

The snags are

a) very few areas have a neatly defined bus network - there's always going to be some bus routes coming in from outside the area.  dealing with these is complicated

b) the whole thing would probably cost the council more than the current package of supported services it pays for (the services that the free market does not provide)

c) there is a long 'lead in' process, and there is the danger that (taking Bristol as an example) if First were not to win, they could (apart from mounting a legal challenge which would be expensive for the council) de-register their existing routes and sell off their buses and depots during that lead-in period, in which case all concerned would be well and truly stuffed...


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## electrogirl (Jul 26, 2009)

I don't agree with the smokey accusation either, but I appreciate the use of the term 'old boilers'.


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## Sunspots (Jul 26, 2009)

bristolradio said:


> So, how much is a Dayrider now?



It's gone up to £4.00 off peak.  

(-Don't know about the peak times price, sorry.)


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## Maurice Picarda (Jul 26, 2009)

Puddy_Tat said:


> In theory, yes.
> 
> In practice, the 'quality contract schemes' referred to here have been around since the 2000 Transport Act (the 2008 Act makes the process a bit easier) - broadly speaking, each council is waiting for someone else to do it first, and go through the legal challenges and so on.
> 
> ...


 
That's all interesting. Thanks.


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 28, 2009)

strung_out said:


> never seen that happening before and iirc, there are fairly strong penalties for drivers who don't keep to the correct times on the timetable (traffic jams etc aside). agree about the prices being ridiculous though.


I've seen it happen with startling regularity. The driver doesn't board the bus until the time it's due out. Then it takes another ten minutes at least to get the people on, then he leaves. Factor in waiting times at stops along the way and the traffic and the buses have no hope of being on time.

Of course if the driver is notably late he might just decide to ignore people at the more remote bus stops along the way (people being me) and/or drive like an utter loon as if thinking he might _slow time _by doing so. He might also decide to have a go at someone who doesn't have easy access to a cash point and thus has to give a ten pound note for a £6.90 bus ticket as if it were the most heinous crime. Or he might decide that, instead of departing in good time, he'd rather have a conversation with someone on his mobile. Or he might actually arrive early and, instead of properly waiting for passegners to arrive (which they will if he waits), he'll just drive on by and not give a shit.

I have no sympathy for these drivers as far too many of them, IME, are inconsiderate and rude.


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 28, 2009)

Geri said:


> The buses from the bus station often leave late.


They spent all that money renovating the bus station and decided that instead of a decent amount of passenger seating, a horrendously overpriced cafe was needed (almost 2 quid for a bottle of water? )


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## Geri (Jul 28, 2009)

Everything is expensive in there, even from the shop.


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## Isambard (Jul 28, 2009)

You can nip over the road to the Tesco Express and save a fortune.


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## Geri (Jul 28, 2009)

Isambard said:


> You can nip over the road to the Tesco Express and save a fortune.



Not when the bus is due in 2 minutes and you know the queue at the Tesco Express will be a mile long, and you only have a tenner and the bus driver will huff and tut at you if you give it to him!


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## Isambard (Jul 28, 2009)

Moaning about a tenner? There can't BE that many fares under a tenner any more on Farce Bus leaving the bus station! Costs me about four quid return to go from my mum's to the sea front and it's about six stops. 

In terms of price per distance it makes the train into Bristol (also run by Farce)  look a positive bargain!


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## stupid dogbot (Jul 29, 2009)

I really, really miss Bristol buses. No, honestly.


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 30, 2009)

Isambard said:


> You can nip over the road to the Tesco Express and save a fortune.


You can buy from any other shop _in the universe _and save money.


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## Awesome Wells (Jul 30, 2009)

Geri said:


> Not when the bus is due in 2 minutes and you know the queue at the Tesco Express will be a mile long, and you only have a tenner and the bus driver will huff and tut at you if you give it to him!


they tried refusing to accept £20 notes once. Said there were loads of fakes floating around so they wouldn't take them. That soon changed. Fucking pillocks.


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## Isambard (Aug 1, 2009)

OK, I get the change thing MAYBE if you were paying a 50p fare (remember them?) with a twenty but is there ANY "business" that bitches about change more than Farce?


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## Geri (Aug 1, 2009)

bristolradio said:


> So, how much is a Dayrider now?



£4 now.


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## Meltingpot (Aug 3, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> I really, really miss Bristol buses. No, honestly.



I liked the old ones (green, with "Bristol" painted on the side). I think they actually were made in Bristol too (Bristol was the make IIRC).

@Isambard; "Farce bus" lol


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## Meltingpot (Aug 3, 2009)

Awesome Wells said:


> a return journey of around 20miles total is going to cost me £7 now. That's over half my shopping budget. Unfortunately that's the only way i can get to the shops that sell stuff!
> 
> First's efficiency would double if they hired people who didn't smoke like old boilers.



That's serious ripoff territory. From where I live to Launceston (Cornwall) and back is 24 miles and the fare is half that (£3.50 return).


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 4, 2009)

Christ, those were the days.

I wish there was an alternative, but I can't drive.


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## Meltingpot (Aug 5, 2009)

Me neither, and with my sight not what it was it's looking unlikely that I ever will.

That's one bus company though. The other one (which covers a different area) is significantly more expensive, though still well below Bristol fares apparently; around #2.50  for a 10- or 12-mile journey.


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## stupid dogbot (Aug 6, 2009)

Meltingpot said:


> I liked the old ones (green, with "Bristol" painted on the side). I think they actually were made in Bristol too (Bristol was the make IIRC).
> 
> @Isambard; "Farce bus" lol



That may well be before my time, I'm afraid. I came to Briz in 1997, they were already Farce Bus by then, I think.


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## Awesome Wells (Aug 6, 2009)

If only people would protest. 

I'm so piss sick of First it's not funny. Public transport should be a national resource, not a greedy profit outfit.

They make me fucking angry.


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## Meltingpot (Aug 6, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> That may well be before my time, I'm afraid. I came to Briz in 1997, they were already Farce Bus by then, I think.



Yes it was, I was there (briefly) in the early 80s. I last visited Bristol in 1989, I think the bus companies had changed even by then. The Tories deregulated the bus services some time around 1986, after which everything changed (got worse IMO).


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## Puddy_Tat (Aug 7, 2009)

Meltingpot said:


> I liked the old ones (green, with "Bristol" painted on the side). I think they actually were made in Bristol too (Bristol was the make IIRC)



like so - http://www.bristolbuses.co.uk/images/c7201.jpg

Bristol Omnibus was the bus operator (that got split into Badgerline and CityLine at privatisation and is now all 'First')

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Omnibus_Company

Bristol Commercial Vehicles was the builder of bus chassis, based at Brislington - they were originally a subsidiary of Bristol Omnibus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Commercial_Vehicles

most of the bus bodies were built by Eastern Coach Works at Lowestoft - the chassis were driven cross country to Lowestoft to be bodied...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fray_bentos/200198976/


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## strung out (Aug 7, 2009)

Puddy_Tat said:


> like so - http://www.bristolbuses.co.uk/images/c7201.jpg



anyone know whereabouts this is?


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## big eejit (Aug 7, 2009)

It's where Zetland road meets Gloucester Road. Why?


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## Meltingpot (Aug 8, 2009)

Puddy_Tat said:


> like so - http://www.bristolbuses.co.uk/images/c7201.jpg
> 
> Bristol Omnibus was the bus operator (that got split into Badgerline and CityLine at privatisation and is now all 'First')
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info.


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## weepiper (Aug 8, 2009)

ajdown said:


> A single cash fare on any London bus is £2, even if you're only going one stop or from one end of the route to the other.



£1.20 in Edinburgh


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## Gerry1time (Aug 8, 2009)

60p in Guernsey apparently, down to 40p or so if you buy a card to top up


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## _angel_ (Aug 8, 2009)

Geri said:


> Not when the bus is due in 2 minutes and you know the queue at the Tesco Express will be a mile long, and you only have a tenner and the bus driver will huff and tut at you if you give it to him!



Do drivers still do that? Given the fare increases, esp if there's a couple of you, some places don't even give change out of that (north yorkshire is particularly bad for this)

The only good thing about Leeds bus fares now is that the drivers don't routinely abuse you for getting on with a note.


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## Geri (Aug 8, 2009)

Meltingpot said:


> I liked the old ones (green, with "Bristol" painted on the side). I think they actually were made in Bristol too (Bristol was the make IIRC).



I saw one of these today!


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## Isambard (Aug 25, 2009)

Wasn't there a mention the other day of an Office of Fare (sic) Trading investigation into bus fares as it was obvious that people were getting overcharged where there was a monopoly situation?


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