# Terry Nutkins dead.....



## Phenol (Sep 7, 2012)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19520824
Met him once in a beach front bar in Benidorm..... he was half pissed and very hospitable.
RIP Terry


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## butchersapron (Sep 7, 2012)

Not so keen on dolphins though was he?


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 7, 2012)

I was tripping on acid on an island in the Philippines and my girlfriend turned in to Terry Nutkins.


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not so keen on dolphins though was he?


 
who is?  stupid aquatic bastards


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## Phenol (Sep 7, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Not so keen on dolphins though was he?


 Less so on otters!


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 7, 2012)

he never lifted a finger to help otters


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## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 7, 2012)

cheers Terry


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## King Biscuit Time (Sep 7, 2012)

Why is he standing next to a statue of Russ Abbott?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Sep 7, 2012)

Aw man. He always seemed so young. Well, compared to Jonny Morris


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## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2012)

rip terry


did not know this



> Nutkins' love of animals was undimmed by an incident when, aged 15, he had the top joints of two of his fingers bitten off by a wild otter named Edal.


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## Sasaferrato (Sep 7, 2012)

Poor bugger, 66 is no great age nowadays.  R.I.P.


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## Badgers (Sep 7, 2012)

I liked Nutkins a lot  

He was a lord among the otters


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## Ax^ (Sep 7, 2012)

Badgers said:


> I liked Nutkins a lot
> 
> He was a lord among the otters


 
Well after taking 2 of his fingers its the least the otters could of done


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## bi0boy (Sep 7, 2012)

Didn't someone on here have some adverse view of him in some regard?


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## Badgers (Sep 7, 2012)

Doesn't everyone on here have some adverse view of everyone in some regard?


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## Firky (Sep 7, 2012)

I just read this 

He lost his finga to an otta


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## Metal Malcolm (Sep 7, 2012)




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## Badgers (Sep 7, 2012)

If I had to choose any animal on earth to lose to fingers to it would be an otter.


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## bignose1 (Sep 7, 2012)

firky said:


> I just read this
> 
> He lost his finga to an otta


Tarka-in of which Im in Devon doing the Tarka trail..its not bad weather ...could do with being a little otter though...


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## RaverDrew (Sep 7, 2012)

firky said:


> I just read this
> 
> He lost his finga to an otta


I always just assumed he was making gang hand signals


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## Firky (Sep 7, 2012)

b3ta has disappointed me in their slowness in photoshopping Terry Nutkins jpegs and gifs. As befits the way of a famous 80s presenter dying 

What with the hit on a family in France and this, it's just a bad news day


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## Buddy Bradley (Sep 7, 2012)

bi0boy said:


> Didn't someone on here have some adverse view of him in some regard?


Here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ld-florida-cover-up-in-progress.244144/page-2


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 7, 2012)

Sasaferrato said:


> Poor bugger, 66 is no great age nowadays.  R.I.P.


 
The only animals they had when you were 66 are now extinct...


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## Corax (Sep 7, 2012)

Bringing natural history to da kidz earns him a huge high5 in my book.  RIP Tezza.


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## editor (Sep 7, 2012)

He always struck me as a decent chap. RIP Mr Nutkins.


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## sim667 (Sep 7, 2012)

Yeah he was definitely my gateway into tv animal documentaries.

RIP Terry Nutkins


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## equationgirl (Sep 7, 2012)

Very sad indeed what child of the 80s didn't enjoy Animal Magic? 

RIP Terry


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## UrbaneFox (Sep 7, 2012)

When they started making the announcement on the radio news I thought they were going to say that David Attenborough had died. I felt relieved when I heard that it was someone else.
Forget Brenda, I think they should use the 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square for DA.


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## Sasaferrato (Sep 7, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> The only animals they had when you were 66 are now extinct...


 
May your balls become cuboid and fester at the corners!


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 10, 2012)

way ahead of you on that one.


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## albionism (Sep 10, 2012)

R.I.P Terry.
(how on earth did he manage to get _both_ middle fingers
bitten off)


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 10, 2012)

albionism said:


> R.I.P Terry.
> (how on earth did he manage to get _both_ middle fingers
> bitten off)


 
He stuck them where he didn't otter.


(gets coat)


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## Louloubelle (Sep 18, 2012)

I am gutted by this news as it means I will never get my day in court with the sleazy bastard.

I met Nutkins when I was 14 or 15 years old and was working at what was then called Woburn Wild Animal Kingdom during the school holidays.  Loads of kids from Dunstable had weekend jobs working at Woburn and a large coach used to pick us all up from Dunstable town centre and take us to Woburn for the day.

I was thrilled when the manager told me that I was going to work in the dolphinarium as I loved dolphins and didn't really enjoy working in the kitchen with many of my fellow school kids.

It was over 30 years ago but Nutkins had the same balding mullet then that he has had all of his life.  The first thing that struck me about him, other than his laddish arrogance, was his potty mouth and his cruelty towards the dolphins in his care.

He had a long cane or stick that he used to hit the dolphins with while swearing at them for being "cunts".  I was scared of him but the other staff seemed to love him.

Anyway, my job involved a lot of standing around in betweeen dolphin shows and then, during the shows, I would sell icecreams from a tray. 

All of us school kids had to wear the same blue nylon uniforms, for girls it was an ugly button up blue dress and live many other girls I wore a top and trousers underneath.  Nutkins told me that I had to just wear the uniform with no trousers and basically I had to do what he said as he was in charge of the dolphinarium.

The first time I wore just the uniform Nutkins had told me that instead of walking up and down the rows of seats with my tray of icecreams that I should stand at the front and let the people come to me. 

I did this and towards the end of the show the dolphins jumped right next to me and left me soaking wet from being splashed.  I stood there in my now see through nylon dress and felt completely humiliated and embarrassed.  The audience seemed to love it and probably thought that it was part of the show.

Immediately after that show Nutkins tried to force himself on me sexually.  I won't go into details but I was terrified and made it clear that I was scared and wanted to leave.  He knew that I was underage and that I was a school kid.  Something that he told me indicated that I was not the only young girl to have endured his predatory advances. 

The next time I turned up for work I had been moved from the dolphinarium to a hot dog stand in a remote part of the park, completely on my own, and that is where I stayed until I left the job.

I phoned the police about what happend to me when I saw nutkins on TV when the whale was stranded in the Thames.  Seeing him there, with his balding pate and missing fingers, brought back vivid memories of his abuse of me.  I made a statement to the police and he was arrested.  He denied everything of course, as he would, and my statement is still lying on file. 

I couldn't talk about it before in case the case ever went to court. 

Nukins is a prime example of how a hypocrytical animal abuser and child abuser can charm his way into the hearts of millions.  The scary thing is that, even after people were made aware of his abuse of animals and his long history of abusing dolphins (a history that is well documented), people still loved him and were resistant to hearing anything bad about him.  The child abuse issues are more complex as I could not say anything here or in any public forum in case I ever got my day in court with him, something that will never happen now. 

So terry Nutkins, I'm sorry you died as you denied me my day in court and my chance at justice.  I know that I am not the only one. 

That's it.


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## 8ball (Sep 18, 2012)

I nearly said earlier that I'd always found him a bit scary for some reason - that's a terrible thing to go through LLB


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## Mrs Magpie (Sep 18, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> Immediately after that show Nutkins tried to force himself on me sexually. I won't go into details but I was terrified and made it clear that I was scared and wanted to leave. He knew that I was underage and that I was a school kid. Something that he told me indicated that I was not the only young girl to have endured his predatory advances.


I'm really sorry you had that experience .

It's interesting that you say that as the whole Gavin Maxwell/Terry Nutkins as a young boy struck me as a weird relationship. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1498143/The-dark-love-behind-A-Ring-of-Bright-Water.html

Terry Nutkins went to live with Gavin Maxwell at the age of 11 and Maxwell left everything he owned to Nutkins. The will was contested by both Maxwell's family and the RSPCA and iirc, they lost.


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 18, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> I am gutted by this news as it means I will never get my day in court with the sleazy bastard.
> 
> I met Nutkins when I was 14 or 15 years old and was working at what was then called Woburn Wild Animal Kingdom during the school holidays. Loads of kids from Dunstable had weekend jobs working at Woburn and a large coach used to pick us all up from Dunstable town centre and take us to Woburn for the day.
> 
> ...


 
My commiserations for having had to endure that. Your post does give credibility to a couple of stories I heard "back in the day" when I was a trainee at the _Express_, though (back in the '80s). There were the usual rumours doing the rounds about Nutkins liking "chicken" (underage females, for those not familiar with '70s/'80s slang), and IIRC a staffer at the _Express_ did some digging and turned up a couple of schoolgirls who said he'd used a combination of coercion, flattery and presents to keep them quiet after forcing himself on them. As often happens with such stories it got spiked by the lawyers.


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## Louloubelle (Sep 19, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> I'm really sorry you had that experience .
> 
> It's interesting that you say that as the whole Gavin Maxwell/Terry Nutkins as a young boy struck me as a weird relationship.
> 
> ...


 
I understand that something similar happend with Johnny Morris - he left most of his estate to Nutkins. It is my impression of Nutkins that he was a cynical manipulator and predator.  I suspect that one day others will come forward and that people will gain a different perspective on Nutkins than one of inspirational TV naturalist.


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## Louloubelle (Sep 19, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> My commiserations for having had to endure that. Your post does give credibility to a couple of stories I heard "back in the day" when I was a trainee at the _Express_, though (back in the '80s). There were the usual rumours doing the rounds about Nutkins liking "chicken" (underage females, for those not familiar with '70s/'80s slang), and IIRC a staffer at the _Express_ did some digging and turned up a couple of schoolgirls who said he'd used a combination of coercion, flattery and presents to keep them quiet after forcing himself on them. As often happens with such stories it got spiked by the lawyers.


 
I am unsurprised by this.  I think it is only a matter of time before the truth emerges about Nutkins and his unwholesome activities.  One really disturbing aspect of the situation is that at Woburn there was at least one adult male in a senior position who knew what was going on and who actively supported Nutkins in his activities.  It is so depressing to think that he was at it for decades and got away with it.  I was hoping that maybe it was just a phase he went through as a young man but I doubt that this is so, especially given the information in your post.


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## Woburn girl (Oct 3, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> I am gutted by this news as it means I will never get my day in court with the sleazy bastard.
> 
> I met Nutkins when I was 14 or 15 years old and was working at what was then called Woburn Wild Animal Kingdom during the school holidays. Loads of kids from Dunstable had weekend jobs working at Woburn and a large coach used to pick us all up from Dunstable town centre and take us to Woburn for the day.
> 
> ...


 


I did wonder if i was the only one, but now I know that there were others too Louloubelle. I was older at 17 but looked younger. Living in Woburn and working at the Abbey. Terry never got very far with me thank goodness, but he did try hard. I too got a soaking, by being thrown in the dolphin pool fully clothed.  I was given an ultimatum by him. He was going away for two weeks and I was expected to sleep with him when he got back or I would lose my job. I left the job before he returned from his holiday. I went to the Citizens advice bureau to ask advice on the situation I was put in by him, and was told to leave the job and forget about it. I left the job, but never forgot. I must admit to being happy he has gone.


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## Random (Oct 3, 2012)

What a nasty piece of shit. A great shame he's dead and cannot be fully held to account for his behaviour, and for how he fooled a generation of childrens TV viewers.


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## Louloubelle (Oct 3, 2012)

Woburn girl said:


> I did wonder if i was the only one, but now I know that there were others too Louloubelle. I was older at 17 but looked younger. Living in Woburn and working at the Abbey. Terry never got very far with me thank goodness, but he did try hard. I too got a soaking, by being thrown in the dolphin pool fully clothed. I was given an ultimatum by him. He was going away for two weeks and I was expected to sleep with him when he got back or I would lose my job. I left the job before he returned from his holiday. I went to the Citizens advice bureau to ask advice on the situation I was put in by him, and was told to leave the job and forget about it. I left the job, but never forgot. I must admit to being happy he has gone.


 
Thank you so much for sharing.

I am so sorry that Terry did that to you.

This might sound weird but it is important that we don't communicate privately in case anything ever goes to trial. It would be considered contamination of evidence.

Although Terry is dead, the fact is that people around him at Woburn (I have no idea about the BBC) enabled him to abuse girls and I would hope that some of the people responsible can be brought to justice one day.

I reported Terry's abuse of me to the police at the Met Police Sapphire Unit in Holburn.
I would encourage you to please contact them re Nutkins. It may be that they cannot do anything as you were 17, and I am not a cop and do not really know how these things work, but they may be interested to hear from you as others may have reported him also. Even if they had not done so yet they may do in days to come, especially given the fallout and investigations re Savile.

If anyone else who was abused by Terry Nutkins is reading this, please think carefully about what you write here. I think it is OK to post up something general, but I have left out specific details of some of the things he did and said, although I reported them to the police, as if they are written about in public then it would compromise the validity of the statement as corroborating evidence.

Woburn girl, thank you for your courage and a big virtual hug and lots of love to you. You were not the only one, and from some of the things Terry said to me, not the only one by a long shot.


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## Woburn girl (Oct 3, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> Thank you so much for sharing.
> 
> I am so sorry that Terry did that to you.
> 
> ...


 

Thank you for your very supportive reply. I will think very hard about reporting him. I have only told my story to one other person in the last 40 years, and then only hinted at what happened. My OH dose not know and I never told my parents either, my dad would have killed him! My boyfriend at the time knew the full story and I had to keep him well away from Terry as he wanted to turn off his lights!
My heart goes out to you, you suffered so much worse than me.


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## Ax^ (Oct 3, 2012)

Not relate to any sort of celebrity

But one of my ex's got involved with this charity when we split.. This was after talking to her family and the police


http://www.thistangledweb.co.uk/


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## Louloubelle (Oct 3, 2012)

Woburn girl said:


> Thank you for your very supportive reply. I will think very hard about reporting him. I have only told my story to one other person in the last 40 years, and then only hinted at what happened. My OH dose not know and I never told my parents either, my dad would have killed him! My boyfriend at the time knew the full story and I had to keep him well away from Terry as he wanted to turn off his lights!
> My heart goes out to you, you suffered so much worse than me.


 
I can understand why you didn't tell anyone. I didn't tell a soul until I saw Nuktins on TV as a children's TV presenter. Until that moment I had no idea that the man who had assaulted me all those years ago was a celebrity with access to children.

Victims of sexual assaults, children and adults, often keep it to themselves. I know that I felt very responsible at the time.  I felt embarrassed and ashamed.  This is not unusual.

I also appreciate that it can be very distressing years after, for the feelings and the memories to resurface. If you feel that you can talk to your OH about it then that would probably be the first step as you will need some support if you decide to take things further.

I really had a lucky escape with Nutkins as it didn't go as far as rape, just him trying to get his fingers in my knickers having pushed me against a wall. Some of what you say resonates with my experience, although I cannot go into details for the reasons I have described above.

Please take care and I wish you well whatever you decide to do.


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## Old fossil (Oct 4, 2012)

A friend of mine put me onto this thread because I had told her of my experience with Terry Nutkins, prior to his death. I was not quite 'chicken' and the time being 20 and 20+ and I too didn't tell my boyfriend as he had a ferocious temper. My first experience was pre-Woburn and maybe because I was that bit older, I wasn't as traumatised by it or maybe because, despite it being a serious sexual assault, I never sensed a real threat. Later, when I was older and no longer with my boyfriend, his occasional 'attentions' were never as serious as the first one, maybe because he sensed I was a strong person who might do something about it - and he was in his second marriage by then, he had something to lose and I just regarded them as a tedious nuisance.
I obviously knew Terry Nutkins more closely and for longer than the people writing these posts and what I found most unpalatable about him was not his lewdness or occasional physical assaults, but his sadistic streak e.g. he loved stirring up trouble between people. In the balance of fairness, I have to say he could sometimes be very nice e.g. he once really upset me with what was an innocent comment that touched a sensitive nerve in my psyche and was very contrite and comforting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making any excuses for him, he was a sleaze bag but as I've said to another person, I think he was a deeply damaged person himself who I suspect was simply perpetuating damage visited upon him in his very young years. It was only recently I discovered that he was only 11 when he went to live with the homosexual Gavin Maxwell, I'd thought, maybe from what he told me, that he was in his teens 14 or 15 which, in those days, was school leaving age.
When I first met Terry Nutkins, his first wife, a very beautiful woman, had just left him and he was in such a state that one one occasion when he was drunk, he vomited blood.
One person here said they regard him as a sexual predator and manipulative which I think is probably an accurate assessment but I think that, as has often been said of such people, the real motive is not sex, but power. It is interesting to note that when I was 30 and confident of handling myself (and knowing that as a married man again, now he would not want trouble), out of interest I responded to his latest mauling by saying 'O.K. next time I see you I'll go to bed with you'. That was the last time I saw him, he lost interest in me which, as far as I'm concerned, confirms my feeling that he was basically on a power trip.
Finally, to the girl who felt she was thrown in the dolphin pool fully clothed as punishment, take heart, that was standard initiation in the dolphinariums and when the trainer at another dolphinarium said he was going to throw me in, I said he'd go with me. When the time came, he picked me up, carried me to the pool edge and dropped me but I clung on. As I went down I heard a ripping sound - his T-shirt, and then a splash as he came in on top of me. On one occasion after the last show, ALL the staff threw each other in the pool fully clothed so that the departing audience thought it was part of the show and started to sit down again!


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## Louloubelle (Oct 4, 2012)

Thank you for sharing your experience Old fossil.

I too experienced Terry as lewd. He subjected me to many inappropriate comments and bottom pinching prior to his assault on me. It seemed to me that the dolphinarium was his "kingdom" and that he wanted everyone to know that he was the "boss".

I hope you don't mind me asking, but can your remember what year it might have been when he was vomiting blood? I have a vague memory of him bragging about this in a way that grossed me out and I am wondering whether it was at the same time that I knew him. He was extremely tanned, even sunburned, when I knew him and was a bit "Tarzan" like inasmuch as when he was training the dolphins I don't remember ever seeing him wear a shirt or top.

He had a very beautiful, blonde assistant, also very tanned, who was usually wearing a bikini when I saw her.  I assumed that she was his girlfriend, but I could have been mistaken about that. 

I think that most if not all abusers and predators are damaged in some way and I'm sure that Nutkins was no exception.

Thanks again for sharing.


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## pogofish (Oct 4, 2012)

Old fossil said:


> but I think that, as has often been said of such people, the real motive is not sex, but power.


 
This about equates with my experience of the guy.

Loulou knows the outline of my dealings with Nutkins and they were nothing like what you suffered but he did fill all of us with a great deal of unease at the time.

One day, Nutkins and his Really Wild Show chums appeared out of the blue (filming in the area apparently and with a photographer in tow for press photos - hmmm!) at one of our public Natural History Ventures and showed an impressive amount of interest and encouragement - which TBH, we did really need at the time.

This led to further visits from Nutkins himself, trying to integrate himself further in our activities and fairly quickly it became obvious he was wanting us to hich-on to his bandwagon. And it was very much going to be that way round. He would be in charge - it would be his projects, his interests and he would be leading the public/media-facing activities he wanted us involved-in. We would have simply become a very credible publicity/project/validation vehicle for him. This of course promised us major TV exposure and other publicity benefits, so yes we seriously considered it.

However at the same time, one of the principal people in the venture was getting increasingly disturbed and uncomfortable with his interest, to the point where she eventually made it clear that if his involvement continued, she would be gone. AFAIK, no specific complaints were made (but I wouldn't have been involved there anyway) but she was a very attractive but incredibly young-looking woman. In fact it was often commented-on that she looked far younger than many of the teenagers she had such an aptitude for working with. Anyway, I took her as being completely creeped out by the guy.

So eventually we politely declined his interest/proposals and never saw Nutkins again.

Aditionally, over the years, through close family friends and later professionally, I've had dealings with a fair number of the surviving members of Maxwell's "Sandaig Set" and they are an interesting bunch of people. Not one of them are/were whole or particularly normal individuals, with all kinds of issues and often unpleasant interpersonal dynamics ranging between them, still persisting even decades later. Very strange and unsettling indeed.


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## Louloubelle (Oct 5, 2012)

I have been thinking about this thread and about Terry Nutkins a lot over the past 48 hours. 

If anyone else reading this was abused by him or witnessed him abusing others then rather than posting here it is probably best to contact the NSPCC who I understand are taking calls from adults in the wake of the Jimmy Savile programme.  

Anyone reading this who was abused, I hope you will understand that you are not alone, and also please understand that to prevent contamination of evidence that it is important that you contact the NSPPC or the police rather than posting details of what happened to you here.


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## Old fossil (Oct 5, 2012)

To answer Louloubelle, it was in the very early 1970's when T.N. was vomiting blood, a time when he still had hair on the top of his head!!!


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## Louloubelle (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks Old fossil, of course, you said you knew him pre-Woburn.  
I didn't meet him until a bit later.


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## Dandred (Oct 5, 2012)

albionism said:


> R.I.P Terry.
> (how on earth did he manage to get _both_ middle fingers
> bitten off)


 

He was a pedo, why R.I.P?


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 5, 2012)

Dandred said:


> He was a pedo, why R.I.P?


 
So everyone who posted before Louloubelle had a crystal ball then?

Poor form.


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## Orang Utan (Oct 5, 2012)

Wow at the revelations. 
I guess it wasn't an otter he lost those fingers to after all


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## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2012)

Dandred said:


> He was a pedo, why R.I.P?


i notice you don't have the balls to quote editor and say the same thing.


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## frogwoman (Oct 5, 2012)

BBC is gonna catch a load of shit for this. I wonder how many more?


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## Nanker Phelge (Oct 5, 2012)

I'd heard stuff about his general attitude to others and his unhealthy attention towards young girls well before he died.....I know a few people who worked with him and they all said he was a total cunt all the time. I know a couple of people who lodged complaints about his behaviour (anger and mood, not sexual) to the BBC....it all got sidelined.

I wonder if his 'Guardian' took him down a road with no return?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> BBC is gonna catch a load of shit for this. I wonder how many more?


not jonny morris or tony hart i hope

or the man who did fingermouse


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## Citizen66 (Oct 5, 2012)

It's interesting to see that on this thread where personal accounts haven't been ridiculed and dismissed that it's encouraged other people to come forward.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 5, 2012)

and i hope not brian cant either


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## Orang Utan (Oct 5, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> not jonny morris or tony hart i hope
> 
> or the man who did fingermouse



'It's not me, it's Fingermouse wot did it!'


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## Cornetto (Oct 5, 2012)

Louloubelle said:


> I am unsurprised by this. I think it is only a matter of time before the truth emerges about Nutkins and his unwholesome activities. One really disturbing aspect of the situation is that at Woburn there was at least one adult male in a senior position who knew what was going on and who actively supported Nutkins in his activities. It is so depressing to think that he was at it for decades and got away with it. I was hoping that maybe it was just a phase he went through as a young man but I doubt that this is so, especially given the information in your post.


 
Give it a year, like Saville, the media network will cover their collective arses then have an expose on Nutkins. I hope it all comes out in the wash, people should know the truth.


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## albionism (Oct 5, 2012)

Dandred said:


> He was a pedo, why R.I.P?


i wrote "R.I.P" long before i had ever heard of any pedo revelations, ya twat.


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## Old fossil (Oct 6, 2012)

I think this is going to disappoint many people writing these posts but I'm concerned about the rather frenzied tone some of them are taking and feel a need to add some perspective, to play Devil's advocate if you like.

I'm guessing that I'm older than most of the people putting posts here - I'll be 60 next birthday. I'm not excusing what T.N. did, but what you all need to understand is how different was the Britain he, and I grew up in. I have already written privately to someone, prior to most of these posts, that I was in no way traumatised by what T.N. did and regarded it just as a  bloody nuisance as, with one exception, it was no different from what other men had done to me. That's how it was then and if you think that other women would be supportive, think again. On more than one occasion as a young girl I was reprimanded by an older woman for objecting to a man's unwanted attention, being told either that he 'was just having a bit of fun' or that 'you should be flattered'. Yes, the status of women was so low back then that they were expected to be flattered by any man's attentions - no matter how unwanted. There was a saying at the time that 'It is a man's perogative to try, a woman's to deny.' and even my own father took exception to my attitude that I'd slap the face of any man who pinched my bottom - bad yes, but at least I wasn't living in a culture where I'd be murdered if I 'shamed' the family.

Back then, I was far more upset by Terry's trying to break up me and my boyfriend, than his unwanted physical attentions and much, much more upset, when I entered the jobs market, to find jobs were advertised with two salaries, one for a man, and one 30% lower, for a woman. The only places that tended to pay equal money for equal work were places like local authorities and the Civil Service. Inflation was running at around 24% at the time, so that some weeks I only had enough money to make a huge pan of vegetable stew that had to last most of the week (something a friend and I were just talking about recently). I lived - as did many people - in a bedsit with no tv as even renting one was too expensive, and a two bar electric fire was the only form of heating. In the winter, to keep warm when it was really cold, I'd just go to bed after my evening meal and listen to the radio. And in one place I had a revolting landlord in his 60's who invited me to 'give him a little kiss' and told me that if I was nice to him I wouldn't have to pay any rent, and in another the landlord would enter whenever he liked, even when I was in bed. If tenant's rights existed then, none of us knew of them and with regard to the last landlord mentioned here, another tenant put me onto the trick of locking my door and leaving the key in - then he couldn't get in with his master key. Really, a few seconds unwanted attention from T.N. were as nothing compared to all of this and if the worst that has happened to you in your life is TN  pinching your bottom, making lewd comments, showing interest in you or being angry with you, consider yourself fortunate, I'd give my right arm for that to have been the worst that happened in my life, up to as recently as the last 6 years.

In what is a fairly typical example of male hypocrisy, I saw T.N. when he was with the BBC in the 80's and he and his family were living in Scotland and he complained to me about the attitutide of the men up there towards women being 50 years behind the times, saying that at Hogmanay they thought it perfectly acceptable not just to kiss his wife, but to stick their tongue down her throat and I thought 'just like you did to me?' and hoped he'd learned his lesson.

Yes, T.N. was not a nice person who abused his position of power to frighten his employees and doubtless he paid unhealthy attention to young girls but that does not make him a paedophile and unless any of you have concrete evidence that he was, it may be wise to cease such allegations. As I have already said here and elsehwhere, I wasn't traumatised by what he did, I think he was a very damaged person himself to whom death came comparatively early and horribly. Report him and make a case against him if you will, if you need that catharsis and closure, that is your perogative, but make sure your evidence is solid and also consider what may have been done to HIM when he was a child, not a near-adult adolescent, when he was living with Gavin Maxwell in the days when there was nowhere and no-one for abused children to turn to. I normal baulk at the idea that someone should escape exposure/punishment because they have a family but T.N. is dead and can't be hurt now, the only people who will suffer will be his children and grandchildren. Personally, I'm content that his unpleasant death at 66 was retribution enough.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 6, 2012)

Cornetto said:


> Give it a year, like Saville, the media network will cover their collective arses then have an expose on Nutkins. I hope it all comes out in the wash, people should know the truth.


And the truth shall set them free


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## Cornetto (Oct 6, 2012)

I think the posts alledging assault of teenagers may provide some basis for Paedophile claims?

The claim of abuse as some form of understanding of continuing abuse to others, is an awful smokescreen and discredits the survivors of abuse, who in my experience are in the majority.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 6, 2012)

Just out of curiosity, have you some evidence with which to substantiate your claim?


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## Cornetto (Oct 6, 2012)

I have not made any claims, some posters have. I merely pointed out that it usually takes a year or so for the media to cover arses and then organise an 'expose'.


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## Serotonin (Oct 6, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> Just out of curiosity, have you some evidence with which to substantiate your claim?


 
Theres some studies into what he claims but in my view they are flawed as they start with the premise of interviewing paeodphiles and not victims of abuse as a whole.

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full

Basically there is some correlation with male paeodphiles and being victims of childhood sexual abuse themselves and no correlation when it comes to female paedophiles.

Obviously a better study would be interviewing victims of sexual abuse and seeing how many became paedohpiles, but seeing as most victims dont ever admit it happened, thats not going to happen. Plus I wonder if the paedophiles were honest in their answers to the interviewers about their past. Ive worked with a few paedophiles in my time and they can be very manipulative and very quick to excuse and justify their behaviour.


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## marty21 (Oct 6, 2012)

Dandred said:


> He was a pedo, why R.I.P?


wtf are you on about?


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## Cornetto (Oct 6, 2012)

Serotonin said:


> Theres some studies into what he claims but in my view they are flawed as they start with the premise of interviewing paeodphiles and not victims of abuse as a whole.
> 
> http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full
> 
> ...


 

Yes there is correlation but the majority of abuse survivors do not go on to offend, as you mention the article is looking at perpetrators and not general survivors and from my experience researching, working with and assessing perpetrators answers should not be taken at face value. Some research indicates that survivors are more likely to become future victims and engage in high risk behaviour that can impact on health and well being.

This is one of the public articles; we use it at work with students in regard to CSA/CSE

http://tva.sagepub.com/content/11/4/159.full.pdf html


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## Louloubelle (Oct 6, 2012)

I have no time to post now but but would like to do so properly later.

I would very much prefer it if people refrained from posting here until I am able to respond. Obviously I appreciate that this is the internet and people will post what they like, just making a request as this is a delicate matter.

I think it's worth saying again, if anyone reading this experienced a sexual assault by Terry Nutkins then please do not post about it here, please call the NSPCC who will support you, or if you feel able to please contact the police.

Although I reported the assault to the police at Holburn Sapphire Unit (a specialist unit dealing with rape and sexual assault) they contacted police from Woburn who dealt with the case. I do not know exactly how the system works, but if you feel able to contact the police you could contact your local Sapphire Unit (if you have one) who can advise you or contact the police in the location where the assault took place.


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## Old fossil (Oct 6, 2012)

Just to clear up any confusion which may exist, Terry Nutkins certainly never claimed to me or anyone else I know that he'd been abused himself by Gavin Maxwell, that was what I/we speculated many years ago as a possible explanation for his bizarre and sometimes confusing behaviour e.g. when he tried to cause trouble between me and my boyfriend, I could never work out whether he was jealous that I was with my boyfriend, or my boyfriend was with me. It just made me feel that, although outwardly very heterosexual, he had an element of confusion about his sexuality which, as I understand, can happen if at a young age someone is subjected to same-sex predation and finds the experience did have an element of pleasure in it. That may be an unpalatable to people reading this and undersdtand I am in no way condoning paedophiles, but I had a friend whose husband was abducted by a paedophile when he was a child and told her that the greatest trauma was the fuss that was made when he was found, for as he told his wife, the man hadn't actually hurt him and he hadn't realised that what was being done to him was wrong.


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## Louloubelle (Oct 7, 2012)

Old fossil

I am interested in and concerned by what you have shared with us here. You are a older than me by 10 years or so, but I agree that the 70s were a different time with different social and sexual norms. Like you I dealt with the unwanted attentions of many men and like you I was reprimanded and punished when I tried to stand up for myself.

In your OP you said



> My first experience was pre-Woburn and maybe because I was that bit older, I wasn't as traumatised by it or maybe because, *despite it being a serious sexual assault*, I never sensed a real threat.


I have to say that I felt very confused reading this as one the one hand you say that is was a "serious sexual assault" and yet you also say that you never sensed a real threat. You go on to say...



> Later, when I was older and no longer with my boyfriend, his occasional 'attentions' were never as serious as the first one, maybe because he sensed I was a strong person who might do something about it - and he was in his second marriage by then, he had something to lose and I just regarded them as a tedious nuisance.


Come on, this is just appalling isn't it? You describe a situation in which you get used to Terry's "attentions" and consider them a "nuisance". You are in good company it seems as various older women who worked in the entertainment business in the 70s are coming forward now to describe a cultural milieu in which young women and girls were routinely groped and sexually assaulted by their senior colleagues.

However just because these assaults were commonplace within the entertainment industry in the 70s it does not make it acceptable behaviour does it?  



Old fossil said:


> Back then, I was far more upset by Terry's trying to break up me and my boyfriend, than his unwanted physical attentions and much, much more upset, when I entered the jobs market, to find jobs were advertised with two salaries, one for a man, and one 30% lower, for a woman. The only places that tended to pay equal money for equal work were places like local authorities and the Civil Service. Inflation was running at around 24% at the time, so that some weeks I only had enough money to make a huge pan of vegetable stew that had to last most of the week (something a friend and I were just talking about recently). I lived - as did many people - in a bedsit with no tv as even renting one was too expensive, and a two bar electric fire was the only form of heating. In the winter, to keep warm when it was really cold, I'd just go to bed after my evening meal and listen to the radio. And in one place I had a revolting landlord in his 60's who invited me to 'give him a little kiss' and told me that if I was nice to him I wouldn't have to pay any rent, and in another the landlord would enter whenever he liked, even when I was in bed. If tenant's rights existed then, none of us knew of them and with regard to the last landlord mentioned here, another tenant put me onto the trick of locking my door and leaving the key in - then he couldn't get in with his master key. Really, a few seconds unwanted attention from T.N. were as nothing compared to all of this


 
You have described a vivid picture of yourself as a vulnerable young woman who had to endure poverty, dis empowerment and the unwanted advances of various men. I am sorry that you had to go through such a hard time and of course nobody else can tell you how you should feel about your experiences, but similarly it is not your place to tell other people how they should feel about theirs.



Old fossil said:


> and if the worst that has happened to you in your life is TN pinching your bottom, making lewd comments, showing interest in you or being angry with you, consider yourself fortunate, I'd give my right arm for that to have been the worst that happened in my life, up to as recently as the last 6 years.


 
I have to admit that the above comment left me feeling angry and upset. TN did not just pinch my bottom, he subjected me to a period of sexual harassment cumulating in a serious sexual assault, all of this while I was a school kid working in the summer holidays. You have no idea what other violations and challenges I have faced in my life and how they affected me. You also do not have the right to tell me how I should feel about being assaulted by Terry just as I have no right to tell you how you should feel.

Having read your posts carefully it does seem to me that you have conflicted feelings about Terry. On the one hand you say things like



> what I found most unpalatable about him was not his lewdness or occasional physical assaults, but his sadistic streak e.g. he loved stirring up trouble between people


 


> he was a sleaze bag


 


> One person here said they regard him as a sexual predator and manipulative which I think is probably an accurate assessment


 


> doubtless he paid unhealthy attention to young girls


 
all of which suggest that you know very well that TN was behaving inappropriately around young women and girls.  

You are someone who clearly got to know him well over a period of time and you obviously experienced other aspects of Terry's character, including his capacity for kindness and contrition, that I never experienced. 

Although I cannot know exactly how you felt about Terry (and I find it hard to relate given my very limited experience of him) I do have some understanding of how difficult it can feel when you have powerful hateful feelings as well as loving feelings directed towards the same person.  It may be that that is as close as I can get to understanding how you feel about Terry.  




Old fossil said:


> Yes, T.N. was not a nice person who abused his position of power to frighten his employees and doubtless he paid unhealthy attention to young girls but that does not make him a paedophile and unless any of you have concrete evidence that he was, it may be wise to cease such allegations.


 
I share your concerns here.  This should not be trial by internet and I would like to see this thread "tidied up" to remove any posts after my OP that could be construed as hearsay re TN as well as any posts not directly expressing a first hand experience of TN. 

This is a delicate and important and, IMO, the most important thing is that any people who believe that they were abused or assaulted by TN can know that they are not alone and feel encouraged to contact supportive services and, if they feel able, the police. 



Old fossil said:


> As I have already said here and elsehwhere, I wasn't traumatised by what he did, I think he was a very damaged person himself to whom death came comparatively early and horribly. Report him and make a case against him if you will, if you need that catharsis and closure, that is your perogative, but make sure your evidence is solid and also consider what may have been done to HIM when he was a child, not a near-adult adolescent, when he was living with Gavin Maxwell in the days when there was nowhere and no-one for abused children to turn to. I normal baulk at the idea that someone should escape exposure/punishment because they have a family but T.N. is dead and can't be hurt now, the only people who will suffer will be his children and grandchildren. Personally, I'm content that his unpleasant death at 66 was retribution enough.


 
This is not just about catharsis and closure, this is about the importance of helping people to understand that they are not alone, that what happened to them was wrong, that it was not their fault and that if they come forward to report what happened to them that they will be believed. 

It is about legislators, police officers, people who work in the entertainment industry and, just people everywhere needing to understand how very damaged, abusive people can rise to positions of power where they become effectively "untouchable". 

In the cold light of day it is entirely possible that the only 3 females TN ever assaulted are posting on this thread and that there are no other victims.  It is possible that the things Terry said to me indicating the existence of other victims were lies.  

I do feel very concerned that there may be other victims and I think that if a victim is reading this that she (or he) should not even begin to consider whether TN was abused (or not) or the effect that coming forward would have on TN's family.  

I have no argument with anyone in TN's family and I do not for one moment hold them in any way responsible for what TN did to me, but for you to suggest that victims should not come forward, stand up for themselves and let their voices be heard because it will upset Terry's family is just wrong IMO.

I only know about this from my limited and extremely negative and traumatic experience of being on the receiving end of Terry's unwanted advances.  I cannot claim to know the whole picture or to understand everything.  I just want to make my best effort to ensure that, if there are further victims, that they feel supported to talk to the NSPCC and / or the police about what happened to them.


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## Old fossil (Oct 7, 2012)

I find your attitude Louloubelle, rather high handed, to say the least. You tell me it is not my place to tell other people how to feel, yet you feel it is your place to tell me what I can and cannot do! And you feel it your place to say you wished people would refrain from posting comments until you are able to respond. Sorry, didn't realise this was your personal forum, perhaps you'd post a timetable of your availability so that your subjects may know when it is convenient your ladyship,for you to post respond.

What you call 'the picture you paint' was simply a statement of fact of how life was back then. For me and for most people, one way or another, times were hard but I don't recall anyone feeling 'vulnerable' or 'disempowered' as that was just how daily life was. There wasn't then, thank God, the bleeding-heart victim culture there is today which tells children given nicknames at school that that is bullying. For heaven's sake! When I was at school a nickname was a sign of affection, of acceptance and to be treasured not traumatised over!  What I was trying to convey, as I'm sure you well know though it doesn't suit your purpose, as I note you make no reference to my friend's husband's abduction, is that sometimes life is tough, and sometimes the best way to deal with it is to get over it and get on with life and that there are far FAR worse things that can happen and have a life long effect. Take a wider view Louloubelle, at what people, and particularly women, in this country but more particularly in the wider world really have to suffer, and not the tunnel-vision obsession you have. 

Whether you like it or not, the FACT is that beyond the immediate time it happened, I was *NOT* traumatised by Terry's attention's, no matter how unpleasant, and I did NOT feel any threat, perceiving his attentions as being done for effect, for a shock reaction, for as I've said previously, I felt the motive was power, not sex, so I did not feel sexually threatened.  You tell me I don't know what has happened to you in your life, that is very true, but the reverse is also true but for you to be SO veherment and focussed on your suffering at the hands of T.N. who I note you don't say actually raped you, I can only surmise that what has happened to you has not substantially affected your life either materially and/or emotionally, daily and for many years as what has happened to me has affected my life. If you have a warm and supportive family, you are fortunated, my mother was cold and abusive owing to a personality disorder, if you have not been driven out of your home by spiteful neighbours, you are fortunate and if you have not lost your job through bullying so savage you had a breakdown and the corrupt officials supported the bully, then you are lucky and don't you dare to presume to preach to me.

I told a firend last night that I would not be posting on this site anymore as I found some of the people making posts to be quite disturbing. If I had the smallest feeling that there was any comparison with what Savile did, I'd be supportive, but I don't. You appear to be on a personal crusade on what, as far as I can see, is small and fairly tenuous evidence. Yes, it helps for people to know they're not alone God knows I know that only too well after finally, after lifetime, discovering the reason for my mother's behaviour was down to a personality disorder only recognised in the 80's, which is why I initially put my experiences on this site, but since then I have the feeling that all I've done is add fuel to what is starting to look like a witch-hunt.

There are times when it is best to leave the past well alone and not go raking it up. If there are women out there who feel that they have suffered and are still suffering - rather then you telling them they are or should be - from Terry Nutkin's unwanted attentions then the time is ripe for them to come out of the woorwork of there own volition and take what action they feel is appropriate for them, rather than what you feel it is your place to advise them to do.

Savile was a far more prominent personality who had no wife, children or grandchildren to suffer from his exposure and had honours he can be stripped of. Evidence has come to light that he  actually raped girls as young as 12. It is a whole different scenario.

Airing views on a forum is one thing, going public, which I get the impression is what you are aiming at, is another and it is my opinion that making this public, in this case, would simply causing suffering to those T.N. has left behind and would, in my eyes, make the person who made it public not better than TN himself and that is all I have to say on the subject.


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## Glitter (Oct 7, 2012)

Forgive me if I'm mistaken here OF but it reads to me that you are saying that if someone has been sexually abused and speaks out they are as bad as their abuser. And that if they weren't 'even raped' they should put up and shut up? 

Have I got that right?


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## Citizen66 (Oct 7, 2012)

There's obviously an agenda behind old fossil's posts here.


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## toggle (Oct 7, 2012)

> You appear to be on a personal crusade on what, as far as I can see, is small and fairly tenuous evidence.


 
your accusation is based entirely on complete denial of loulou's personal expereinces, despite having personal expereinces yourself of nutkins preditory behavior.



> I told a firend last night that I would not be posting on this site anymore as I found some of the people making posts to be quite disturbing


 
not half as disturbing as your attempts to tell loulou how she should feel about the assaults she suffered or your attempts to try oneupmanship over her expereinces trying to claim they should not matter because you believe they were less significant than thing that happened to you.

since you're off anyway, don't let the door hit you on your way out.


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## kenny g (Oct 7, 2012)

This is a bulletin board. However worthwhile Louloubelle's posts may be, she can't start complaining that other people are posting on it. If you want control of "your" thread start a blog and link to it.


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## kenny g (Oct 7, 2012)

Old fossil said:


> in my eyes, make the person who made it public not better than TN himself


 
Pretty broad comment? So the person who publicises is as bad as the perpetrator. Are you a relative of Terry?


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## Glitter (Oct 7, 2012)

That's another good point toggle - just because something worse happened to you doesn't mean the first thing wasn't bad.

If someone punches me and breaks my jaw then I lose a leg in a car crash it doesn't suddenly make the jaw breaking ok.


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## kenny g (Oct 7, 2012)

I will give Old Fossil a couple of days to get back to us. If she doesn't it does call into question the veracity of the posts.


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## elbows (Oct 7, 2012)

Old fossil said:


> There wasn't then, thank God, the bleeding-heart victim culture there is today which tells children given nicknames at school that that is bullying. For heaven's sake! When I was at school a nickname was a sign of affection, of acceptance and to be treasured not traumatised over!


 
Your post is riddled with contradictions, but I'll steer clear of the heaviest stuff and pick on something more general.

Whether a nickname is a sign of bullying or a sign of affection rather depends on how it is delivered. There may well be some aspects of 'victim culture' that crop up from time to time and are less than desirable, but its hardly made a complete mess of the world and its certainly better than the other extreme. The denial of wrongdoing and the suggestion that victims just need to pull themselves together and do the right thing by the perpetrators family(!), discreetly and without rocking the boat, is an approach that the 1970s now clearly demonstrates to be hideously flawed and an enabler of sustained abuse. Oops, looks like I didnt avoid the heavy stuff after all.


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## Citizen66 (Oct 7, 2012)

kenny g said:


> Are you a relative of Terry?



These were my suspicions also.


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## Louloubelle (Oct 7, 2012)

FWIW I do not think that Old fossil is a relative of TN's. 

I believe that her initial reason for posting here was genuine and that she wanted to share some of her personal experiences with Terry.  Some of her experiences were bad, some good and I have no reason to doubt that she was giving an honest and accurate account.  If OF posted initially with some kind of agenda to protect TN she would never have posted a lot of things that she did. 

I suspect that OF may know some of the people in TN's family and that this may make her contributions to this thread feel difficult for her. 

Have to go out now but will post more later.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 7, 2012)

Nice reaction, llb. OF sounds very conflicted to me. I'm inclined to cut them some slack.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 7, 2012)

Old fossil said:


> What you call 'the picture you paint' was simply a statement of fact of how life was back then.


 
Or rather, a perspective.



> For me and for most people, one way or another, times were hard but I don't recall anyone feeling 'vulnerable' or 'disempowered' as that was just how daily life was.


 
I recall plenty of people feeling vulnerable and disempowered. We didn't think in terms of those specific words, obviously, but being black, or being Jewish, or being a female made a lot of people feel vulnerable, in my experience, especially as transgression (another word not used "back in the day") was pretty much everyday experience in my corner of south London - if you were poor, were non-Christian, were female or were poor, you were picked out and picked *on*, especially by those who saw themselves as better than you.



> There wasn't then, thank God, the bleeding-heart victim culture there is today which tells children given nicknames at school that that is bullying. For heaven's sake!


 
Obviously your nickname wasn't "speccy", "bugs", "goofy", "titch" or "blubberguts", then!
Nicknames *can* be bullying, or they *can* be affectionate. It depends on who is delivering them and *how* they are delivered.



> When I was at school a nickname was a sign of affection, of acceptance and to be treasured not traumatised over! What I was trying to convey, as I'm sure you well know though it doesn't suit your purpose, as I note you make no reference to my friend's husband's abduction, is that sometimes life is tough, and sometimes the best way to deal with it is to get over it and get on with life...


 
Unfortunately, sometimes you *can't* "get over it", however much you want to, all you can try to do is minimise the effect your trauma has on your life.



> and that there are far FAR worse things that can happen and have a life long effect.


 
That far worse things can happen does nothing to neutralise trauma. That someone is raped and murdered does nothing to neutralise the trauma of a victim who is "only" raped.



> Take a wider view Louloubelle, at what people, and particularly women, in this country but more particularly in the wider world really have to suffer, and not the tunnel-vision obsession you have.


 
Mmm, nice bit of stigmatisation with the use of "tunnel-vision obsession", but given that Louloubelle *has* taken a wider view, in this thread and in others, somewhat inaccurate.



> Whether you like it or not, the FACT is that beyond the immediate time it happened, I was *NOT* traumatised by Terry's attention's, no matter how unpleasant, and I did NOT feel any threat, perceiving his attentions as being done for effect, for a shock reaction, for as I've said previously, I felt the motive was power, not sex, so I did not feel sexually threatened.


 
The issue being that *because* you apparently weren't traumatised, you're somewhat sceptical that of others who experienced similar who are or were traumatised. While the sentiment is understandable to a certain extent, the position has no logic. Circumstances can and do differ between individuals.



> You tell me I don't know what has happened to you in your life, that is very true, but the reverse is also true but for you to be SO veherment and focussed on your suffering at the hands of T.N. who I note you don't say actually raped you...


 
You realise that you're implying that rape is the only valid form of traumatising sexual assault?



> I can only surmise that what has happened to you has not substantially affected your life either materially and/or emotionally, daily and for many years as what has happened to me has affected my life. If you have a warm and supportive family, you are fortunated, my mother was cold and abusive owing to a personality disorder, if you have not been driven out of your home by spiteful neighbours, you are fortunate and if you have not lost your job through bullying so savage you had a breakdown and the corrupt officials supported the bully, then you are lucky and don't you dare to presume to preach to me.
> 
> I told a firend last night that I would not be posting on this site anymore as I found some of the people making posts to be quite disturbing. If I had the smallest feeling that there was any comparison with what Savile did, I'd be supportive, but I don't. You appear to be on a personal crusade on what, as far as I can see, is small and fairly tenuous evidence


 
I have some training in forensic psychology. Multiple reports across time and place of similar instances by the same person set alarm bells ringing to anyone who collates data (the practice is called "statistical profiling"). Personally, I'm fairly sanguine that if the criminal justice system in the UK had had a system for logging reports (as opposed to arrests and charges) in a central database back in the '70s, that Mr. Nutkins would have been red-flagged pretty quickly as worthy of at least surveillance, and the likes of Savile too.



> Yes, it helps for people to know they're not alone God knows I know that only too well after finally, after lifetime, discovering the reason for my mother's behaviour was down to a personality disorder only recognised in the 80's, which is why I initially put my experiences on this site, but since then I have the feeling that all I've done is add fuel to what is starting to look like a witch-hunt.
> 
> There are times when it is best to leave the past well alone and not go raking it up. If there are women out there who feel that they have suffered and are still suffering - rather then you telling them they are or should be - from Terry Nutkin's unwanted attentions then the time is ripe for them to come out of the woorwork of there own volition and take what action they feel is appropriate for them, rather than what you feel it is your place to advise them to do.
> 
> Savile was a far more prominent personality who had no wife, children or grandchildren to suffer from his exposure and had honours he can be stripped of. Evidence has come to light that he actually raped girls as young as 12. It is a whole different scenario.


 
But is it? There exists no *objective* measure of how traumatising an assault (sexual or physical) is to an individual. The law tells us that rape of a minor is subjectively, as delineated by statute, "worse" than, for example an indecent assault (which used to cover everything from buttock-groping to penetration with fingers), but there's no way we can extrapolate from legal severity, the putative depth of trauma a victim is allowed to suffer.


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## Louloubelle (Oct 8, 2012)

Old fossil said:


> I find your attitude Louloubelle, rather high handed, to say the least. You tell me it is not my place to tell other people how to feel, yet you feel it is your place to tell me what I can and cannot do! And you feel it your place to say you wished people would refrain from posting comments until you are able to respond. Sorry, didn't realise this was your personal forum, perhaps you'd post a timetable of your availability so that your subjects may know when it is convenient your ladyship,for you to post respond.


 
I apologise if I came across as high handed, that was not my intention.

My request that people refrained from posting was merely an attempt to keep the thread on track and to keep it focussed on people's actual 1st hand experiences of Terry Nutkins. You expressed concerns re the "rather frenzied tone" of some of the posts and I share your concerns.

I am very grateful to you for posting here as I think that your posts speak volumes about the kind of man that Terry Nutkins really was as well as providing some insight into the mindset of people who worked alongside him for extended periods of time, as you did.



Old fossil said:


> I note you make no reference to my friend's husband's abduction, is that sometimes life is tough, and sometimes the best way to deal with it is to get over it and get on with life and that there are far FAR worse things that can happen and have a life long effect. Take a wider view Louloubelle, at what people, and particularly women, in this country but more particularly in the wider world really have to suffer, and not the tunnel-vision obsession you have.


 
OK I will mention your friend's husband's abduction. I think that it was an important part of your post and we should have a think about what it means. You wrote:



Old fossil said:


> I had a friend whose husband was abducted by a paedophile when he was a child and told her that the greatest trauma was the fuss that was made when he was found, for as he told his wife, the man hadn't actually hurt him and he hadn't realised that what was being done to him was wrong.


 
So, please correct me if I am wrong, but your point seems to be that investigating crimes relating to child abuse can be more harmful and traumatic for the victims than the crimes themselves and that therefore the best thing to do is to sweep everything under the carpet and pretend that nothing happened.



Old fossil said:


> for you to be SO veherment and focussed on your suffering at the hands of T.N. who I note you don't say actually raped you, I can only surmise that what has happened to you has not substantially affected your life either materially and/or emotionally,


 
The above is very interesting and it has helped me to understand how TN could have carried on the way that he did without adults around him challenging him, reporting him to the police or even asking his victims if they were OK. You seem to be of the opinion that any sexual assault short of rape is perfectly OK and that for me to be distressed about being sexually assaulted by TN is making a big fuss about nothing. This is obviously leaving me wondering exactly what you witnessed re TN's "unhealthy interest in young girls". The implications of what you are saying are IMO very disturbing especially given that you worked alongside TN for a long period of time and got to know him well.

FWIW I cannot remember everything about the assault. I have no memory of how I dried myself and whether or not I was given a dry uniform to wear. I cannot remember whether I travelled home on the coach in wet clothes. I am certain that the assault did not go as far as rape. I am sure that I would have remembered that.

Terry was a strong, well built man at that time. He could have raped me if he had been so inclined. His MO in my experience was a combination of sexual assault alongside threats and bribes, the exact nature of which I will not write here for reasons I have explained earlier.

I do not feel that I should feel sympathetic to TN simply because his sexual assault on me stopped short of rape.




Old fossil said:


> You appear to be on a personal crusade on what, as far as I can see, is small and fairly tenuous evidence. Yes, it helps for people to know they're not alone God knows I know that only too well after finally, after lifetime, discovering the reason for my mother's behaviour was down to a personality disorder only recognised in the 80's, which is why I initially put my experiences on this site, but since then I have the feeling that all I've done is add fuel to what is starting to look like a witch-hunt.


 
I think that what happened is that you posted truthfully about your personal experience of TN but then got very anxious when the seriousness of the situation became apparent.



Old fossil said:


> There are times when it is best to leave the past well alone and not go raking it up. If there are women out there who feel that they have suffered and are still suffering - rather then you telling them they are or should be - from Terry Nutkin's unwanted attentions then the time is ripe for them to *come out of the woorwork* of there own volition and take what action they feel is appropriate for them, rather than what you feel it is your place to advise them to do.


 
"come out of the woodwork"?
wow

eta

I'm just wondering how exactly you would have responded to me if my teenage self had approached you all those years ago and told you what TR had done to me. 

For all I know you could have been the woman in the bikini who worked with him at Woburn.  I'm not saying that you are that woman but as someone who evidently knew TN for a long time you must have seen him behave inappropriately around young girls, you allude to as much in your posts. 

Would you tell me to pull myself together, tell me that I should be grateful that I was not raped, tell me that compared to you I had it lucky, tell me to think of his family before making a big fuss over nothing?


----------



## Woburn girl (Oct 22, 2012)

Old fossil said:


> I think this is going to disappoint many people writing these posts but I'm concerned about the rather frenzied tone some of them are taking and feel a need to add some perspective, to play Devil's advocate if you like.
> 
> I'm guessing that I'm older than most of the people putting posts here - I'll be 60 next birthday. I'm not excusing what T.N. did, but what you all need to understand is how different was the Britain he, and I grew up in. I have already written privately to someone, prior to most of these posts, that I was in no way traumatised by what T.N. did and regarded it just as a bloody nuisance as, with one exception, it was no different from what other men had done to me. That's how it was then and if you think that other women would be supportive, think again. On more than one occasion as a young girl I was reprimanded by an older woman for objecting to a man's unwanted attention, being told either that he 'was just having a bit of fun' or that 'you should be flattered'. Yes, the status of women was so low back then that they were expected to be flattered by any man's attentions - no matter how unwanted. There was a saying at the time that 'It is a man's perogative to try, a woman's to deny.' and even my own father took exception to my attitude that I'd slap the face of any man who pinched my bottom - bad yes, but at least I wasn't living in a culture where I'd be murdered if I 'shamed' the family.
> 
> ...


 



How do you justify him Blackmailing me Old Fossil?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 22, 2012)

Old fossil said:


> Savile was a far more prominent personality who had no wife, children or grandchildren to suffer from his exposure and had honours he can be stripped of. Evidence has come to light that he actually raped girls as young as 12. It is a whole different scenario.
> 
> Airing views on a forum is one thing, going public, which I get the impression is what you are aiming at, is another and it is my opinion that making this public, in this case, would simply *causing suffering to those T.N. has left behind and would, in my eyes, make the person who made it public not better than TN himself* and that is all I have to say on the subject.


 
So if a victim of abuse exposes a now deceased abuser publicly, and in turn causes pain and upset to their living relatives, they are as bad as the abuser?

Surely any pain and hurt caused as a result of the abuse and/or it becoming public knowledge is only ever the responsibility of the abuser?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 22, 2012)

Nanker Phelge said:


> So if a victim of abuse exposes a now deceased abuser publicly, and in turn causes pain and upset to their living relatives, they are as bad as the abuser?
> 
> Surely any pain and hurt caused as a result of the abuse and/or it becoming public knowledge is only ever the responsibility of the abuser?


 
Quite.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Quite.


 
Interesting - so if I knew about a case of abuse involving a deceased person that would cause lots of pain to various people if I exposed it, then I could choose whether or not a lot of people suffer, but there would be no moral culpability for me either way.

Does this only work if I am the abused party or would this work as well if I wanted to shift some media content and associated advertising copy?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 22, 2012)

8ball said:


> Interesting - so if I knew about a case of abuse involving a deceased person that would cause lots of pain to various people if I exposed it, then I could choose whether or not a lot of people suffer, but there would be no moral culpability for me either way.


 
What's this _bourgeois_ "moral culpability" rubbish? 
Should a person feel that they *must* keep silent purely from fear of hurting the relatives of an abuser? No, they shouldn't. Abusers often deploy a similar argument against their victims - "don't tell, because it will upset people". Think about how adhering to that long-term might psychologically affect an abuse survivor.



> Does this only work if I am the abused party or would this work as well if I wanted to shift some media content and associated advertising copy?


 
Ooh, nice bit of insinuation there!


----------



## Louloubelle (Oct 22, 2012)

Ever since the Jimmy Savile story broke I have been feeling really fragile and distressed over the abuse I suffered at the hands of Terry Nutkins and, even worse, the response I received from the BBC complaints line when I phoned them TWICE to report concerns that Terry was a danger to children.

Adults who experienced abuse as children really do suffer horribly for the rest of our lives because of the abuse, but also, because of not being believed and / or because people tell us that we are making a big deal over nothing. 

I have been in therapy for years, trained as a therapist, worked as a therapist and still I am in shock over the emotional impact that all this shit has had on me over the last 3 weeks or so. 

While Old Fossil's posts upset and angered me I am also very grateful to her for posting as I think that, as someone who is evidently concerned to protect Nutkins' family from distress, her posts are very, very validating of what happened to me and to Woburn Girl, even though she did not mean them to be.  I mean if the person defending Nutkins, as OF is, is also stating that he was a predatory and manipulative man who had an unhealthy interest in young girls and who sexually assaulted her then it really says something quite profound about Terry Nutkins and his proclivities.  

Grrrrr


----------



## marty21 (Oct 22, 2012)

This still doesn't appear to have hit the media - too busy with Savile atm - when it does, it'll be a bigger shock than the Savile expose - rumours abounded about Savile, not afaik about Nutkins


----------



## 8ball (Oct 22, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Should a person feel that they *must* keep silent purely from fear of hurting the relatives of an abuser? No, they shouldn't. Abusers often deploy a similar argument against their victims - "don't tell, because it will upset people". Think about how adhering to that long-term might psychologically affect an abuse survivor.


 
You're right on all of this, of course.  I'm a bit wary of creating a special hermetically-sealed loop where someone becomes  completely innocent of whatever they unleash due to themselves being the victim of something terrible, though.

As has been said, Nutkins was a damaged person himself...



ViolentPanda said:


> Ooh, nice bit of insinuation there!


 
Maybe, though I can't remember what i was insinuating.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Oct 22, 2012)

marty21 said:


> This still doesn't appear to have hit the media - too busy with Savile atm - when it does, it'll be a bigger shock than the Savile expose - rumours abounded about Savile, *not afaik about Nutkins*


 
I heard some years ago.....mostly about him being a fucking tyrant to work with, but also for his attentions towards young girls....

...when he died I wondered if anything would come out....give it time.


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## Ben Klock (Mar 25, 2017)

I grew up watching him on the really wild show. Always thought he was a friendly big chap and a bit eccentric with that big long bald power mullet of a hair do. Now I wonder why his pet otter bit 2 fingers off? he either owed it a lot of money or he was trying to use it as a bowling ball.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 25, 2017)

Ben Klock said:


> I grew up watching him on the really wild show. Always thought he was a friendly big chap and a bit eccentric with that big long bald power mullet of a hair do. Now I wonder why his pet otter bit 2 fingers off? he either owed it a lot of money or he was trying to use it as a bowling ball.


Would he have got into Berghain though?


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## Ben Klock (Mar 25, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Would he have got into Berghain though?





Orang Utan said:


> Would he have got into Berghain though?



I'm sure his bald mullet would have put him in favour of Sven the head bouncer who himself sports a receeding mullet.  Nutkins / Leibing back to back would be interesting.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

Badgers said:


> If I had to choose any animal on earth to lose to fingers to it would be an otter.


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## pengaleng (Mar 25, 2017)

he werent the best nutkins, man like squirrel was the best one


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## Artaxerxes (Mar 25, 2017)

Fucking hell this thread turned dark.


My sympathies to the victims, report the bastard again and again.


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2017)

pengaleng said:


> he werent the best nutkins, man like squirrel was the best one


Wouldn't be surprised if Squirrel Nutkin turned out to be a sex case too. Best just not to say anything.


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## Ben Klock (Mar 25, 2017)

He sure does sound like a wrong lord. Wonder if Terry is short for..Terrible Nutkins


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## NeptuneTitan (Aug 12, 2017)

Just stumbled across this thread about TV celebrity Terry Nutkins. I, too, once worked with Terry Nutkins, and can confirm that, although he could be very charming, he was also very devious. To my mind, he showed all the tendencies of a psychopath. As for his being a sexual predator, I can confirm that he made a pass at me (I was a male in my late teens), which I swiftly dealt with. It never happened again. The fact that he got away with this kind of behaviour for so long makes me think that he must have been protected by the powers that be. Many who worked with him disliked him intensely, and I couldn’t help but notice how few celebrities left tributes on his death. Although he became famous in animal conservation – otters, dolphins, etc - he demonstrated no compassion for animals. For him, they were just a means to further his career.


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## Dandred (Aug 12, 2017)

Pedo! I knew it all along.


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## Orang Utan (Aug 12, 2017)

Dandred said:


> Pedo! I knew it all along.


how?


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## existentialist (Aug 12, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> how?


I think it's irony. 

I hope it's irony.


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## Billie Zsazsa (Nov 5, 2017)

Woburn girl said:


> I did wonder if i was the only one, but now I know that there were others too Louloubelle. I was older at 17 but looked younger. Living in Woburn and working at the Abbey. Terry never got very far with me thank goodness, but he did try hard. I too got a soaking, by being thrown in the dolphin pool fully clothed.  I was given an ultimatum by him. He was going away for two weeks and I was expected to sleep with him when he got back or I would lose my job. I left the job before he returned from his holiday. I went to the Citizens advice bureau to ask advice on the situation I was put in by him, and was told to leave the job and forget about it. I left the job, but never forgot. I must admit to being happy he has gone.



Hi! I also worked at the dolphinarium from when I was 16 - 18 and am sad to say I was frequently used/abused by Terry as were most other female and possibly male employees. There was a weird culture of acceptance of his preditory behaviour, hard to believe in this current climate. We felt unable to refuse him , groomed by his attentions. To comply seemed the right thing to do. I was very young and very sheltered. I despise my younger self for not standing up for myself more and having more self respect. Only now I’m older do I see that he was the abuser who took advantage of pretty much everyone around him at the time.

I’m not sure what to do now. I know my self esteem and self respect was severely damaged by my experience at Woburn. I suspect many others feel the same as me. But would speaking out now do more harm than good. His family would be so hurt by the opening of this particular worm can.


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## existentialist (Nov 5, 2017)

Billie Zsazsa said:


> Hi! I also worked at the dolphin from when I was 16 - 18 and am sad to say I was frequently used/abused by Terry as were most other female and possibly male employees. There was a weird culture of acceptance of his preditory behaviour, hard to believe in this current climate. We felt unable to refuse him , groomed by his attentions. To comply seemed the right thing to do. I was very young and very sheltered. I despise my younger self for not standing up for myself more and having more self respect. Only now I’m older do I see that he was the abuser who took advantage of pretty much everyone around him at the time.
> 
> I’m not sure what to do now. I know my self esteem and self respect was severely damaged by my experience at Woburn. I suspect many others feel the same as me. But would speaking out now do more harm than good. His family would be so hurt by the opening of this particular worm can.


Coming to terms with the truth is often painful. But perhaps less so, overall, than living with the dark suspicion that there are still many secrets. 

Don't feel obliged to disclose anything you don't want to, but definitely don't base that decision on the idea that you're protecting others from things they already know, or suspect, happened.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 5, 2017)

maomao said:


> Wouldn't be surprised if Squirrel Nutkin turned out to be a sex case too. Best just not to say anything.



I always reckoned he was a masochist, and deliberately had his tail chopped off.


----------



## justin credible (Nov 6, 2017)

Billie Zsazsa said:


> Hi! I also worked at the dolphinarium from when I was 16 - 18 and am sad to say I was frequently used/abused by Terry as were most other female and possibly male employees.



I am so very sorry to hear that you too were abused by Terry.  I was too.



Billie Zsazsa said:


> There was a weird culture of acceptance of his preditory behaviour, hard to believe in this current climate. We felt unable to refuse him , groomed by his attentions. To comply seemed the right thing to do. I was very young and very sheltered. I despise my younger self for not standing up for myself more and having more self respect. Only now I’m older do I see that he was the abuser who took advantage of pretty much everyone around him at the time.



Certainly at Woburn there were adults who both enabled Terry's disgusting abuses and who turned a blind eye.  That is one of the most appalling things about the whole sorry mess, it was not just Terry operating alone, but a whole sub-culture of enablers who seemed to worship the ground he walked on and who were happy to encourage his activities. Those people seemed to think that it was entertaining to know that Terry was abusing vulnerable teenagers. While Terry died over 5 years ago, some of his enablers may still be alive, probably are and IMO they should be brought to justice.

At the very least the police need to understand the organisational and cultural dynamics that allowed a situation to arise where an adult male was openly and explicitly abusing minors while he was in a position of authority, encouraged by adults - including at least one female - who worked with him.



Billie Zsazsa said:


> I’m not sure what to do now. I know my self esteem and self respect was severely damaged by my experience at Woburn. I suspect many others feel the same as me. But would speaking out now do more harm than good. His family would be so hurt by the opening of this particular worm can.



I think it takes a lot of courage to share your experience about the kind of abuse you suffered from Terry and you should hold you head high.  What happened to you was not your fault.  The fact that you are worried about Terry's family demonstrates that you are a kind, decent, caring person.  I feel sorry for them too.  It is not their fault that Terry was a predatory psychopath.  However I feel much more sorry for all the teenagers that Terry used and abused with impunity.

Also Terry's family are living very comfortably on the back of all the money Terry managed to grab from Johnny Morris's family and via his various businesses selling dolphins to amusement parks and his TV career, the latter being a parody of Terry's real life as an animal hating, child abusing psychopath.

I would suggest that you take care of yourself as the first priority.  Talk to friends, loved ones, family, get support and if and when you feel strong enough make that call to the police and help to put terry's enablers in jail.


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## Barking_Mad (Nov 6, 2017)

Goggle "Terry Nutkins abuse" and this is the first result. Did Chris Packham have anything to say about his death?


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## planetgeli (Nov 6, 2017)

Barking_Mad said:


> Goggle "Terry Nutkins abuse" and this is the first result.



I came here to post the same thing. While it’s not my business, or anyone’s, to tell an abused person what to do I’m fairly livid and astonished since coming across this thread yesterday that nobody seems to acknowledge this apart from Urban. It’s like a secret Savile all over again. There’s even hints as to people were in the know, by the lack of those coming forward to pay respects when the cunt did die.

The testimonies in this thread are nothing but believable, shaming and compelling. They undoubtedly point to ‘how many more were there?’, on top of the completely convincing condemnation of Nutkins himself. Reading how Nutkins was adopted by Gavin Maxwell, after joining him for a summer job ffs, was also a bizarre eye opener into the darker sides of what was going on in the times of my childhood.

I don’t know how you fix it, but it seems as much as a crime for this to go unacknowledged after his death as it was a crime for him to get away with things while he lived.


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## pogofish (Nov 6, 2017)

Barking_Mad said:


> Goggle "Terry Nutkins abuse" and this is the first result. Did Chris Packham have anything to say about his death?



And the second hit is a blog that seems to have lifted parts of posts straight from here.  Hmmm...?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 6, 2017)

Tributes listed here are fairly sparse:

Wildlife presenter Nutkins dies


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## cybershot (Nov 6, 2017)

The thread does seem to have taken an odd turn. Whilst coming forward may be difficult. If these new members are legit then I’d like to think others may follow. The fact this thread seems to be the only supporting evidence however does make me wonder if we just have the same person posting over and over in some weird smearing campaign. 

Despite his death surely ed and the mods still have to protect against character assignations on here or u75 itself could face legal troubles or at least requests to shut this down sooner or later.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2017)

cybershot said:


> The thread does seem to have taken an odd turn. Whilst coming forward may be difficult. If these new members are legit then I’d like to think others may follow. The fact this thread seems to be the only supporting evidence however does make me wonder if we just have the same person posting over and over in some weird smearing campaign.
> 
> Despite his death surely ed and the mods still have to protect against character assignations on here or u75 itself could face legal troubles or at least requests to shut this down sooner or later.


perhaps you could elaborate on which living person you think is being smeared


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## phillm (Nov 6, 2017)

His Wiki entry is squeaky clean  .....

Terry Nutkins - Wikipedia


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## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2017)

from the sun 8/9/12


all the other papers carried similar tributes and as far as i can see nothing from either michaela strachan or chris packham.


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## elbows (Nov 6, 2017)

cybershot said:


> The fact this thread seems to be the only supporting evidence however does make me wonder if we just have the same person posting over and over in some weird smearing campaign.



More likely its the only place they find when googling to have a proper discussion about this stuff, especially as other places that mention it are either shit & dodgy or link back to this place as the original source.


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## planetgeli (Nov 6, 2017)

cybershot said:


> If these new members are legit



New members? Posting 'over and over again'?

Pogofish has 39000 posts. Louloubelle 20000. Woburngirl 3. Oldfossil, who appears to be some kind of closer contact to Nutkins, though still offering a negative picture, 5.

Your reading isn't my reading.


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## phillm (Nov 6, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> from the sun 8/9/12
> 
> View attachment 119803
> all the other papers carried similar tributes and as far as i can see nothing from either michaela strachan or chris packham.



Packham here - sounds like he was a Nutkin fan.


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## Pickman's model (Nov 6, 2017)

phillm said:


> Packham here - sounds like he was a Nutkin fan.



Yeh. Couldn't find him saying anything on the occasion of tn's death


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## crossthebreeze (Nov 6, 2017)

Its not Chris Packham in that video, its an impressionist called Pete Walsh using a face swap app


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## Billie Zsazsa (Nov 7, 2017)

I wasn’t a minor when I worked with Terry and have no knowledge that he ever abused boys or girls under 16. I am in no way accusing him of paedophilia though I wouldn’t necessarily have put it beyond him.

As to this being the only place on the net to find negative comments about Terry, well that is surprising. The reason I found this thread was that after watching a documentary about Chris P and his Asperger syndrome my memory was stirred and I wondered if anything had ever come out about Terry and his sexually predatory nature. 

I am finding it really cathartic to share here and to know that I’m not a weak person that allowed myself to be taken advantage of but that I was one of hundreds and hundreds of people who experienced the same. Never rape, but manipulated situations which compromised you.

For me, for myself, there could be no  criminalcase to raise as I was 16 and was never raped but put into situations where I couldn’t say no. I know that’s hard to understand, but anyone who shared my experience will know exactly what I mean.

As to going to the police, I will not do that for myself as, as I’ve already said, I could not accuse him of a crime as I was 16+, but would happily stand in court as a witness to his predatory sexual behaviour if that could help anyone who was abused as a minor.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 7, 2017)

phillm said:


> His Wiki entry is squeaky clean  .....
> 
> Terry Nutkins - Wikipedia


Look at the edit history.


----------



## justin credible (Nov 7, 2017)

I need to set the record straight here and should have done so in my first post using this name.  

I am Louloubelle using a new user name, lost my old email details long ago and am living in the sticks with no internet connection so am posting this from a library.

I can't talk too much about it but am going through a difficult time as have recently given evidence at the independent inquiry into organised abuse, partly about Terry and partly about some paedophiles / child abusers who I had the misfortune to encounter as a child before I was abused by Terry.

I have recently been contacted by victim support and the police and will soon be giving a statement re the paedophiles. I went to the police about Terry years ago, as I stated earlier in the thread. 

I checked out this thread again as a result of seeing Terry appear briefly in the Chris Packham documentary and was very angry and distressed to read the new posts, especially from Billie Zsazsa.

It upset me so very much because, as I stated in an earlier post here, Terry boasted to me about abusing other girls.  He also bragged about his "colleagues" at Woburn enabling his proclivities (although not in those words).
Some part of me had always hoped that he was lying or exaggerating but reading Billie Zsazsa's post just removed any hopes and doubts that I might have had that Terry was lying about the scale of his abuse. 

Also things happened that I told the police and the independent inquiry about but that I haven't posted here because such details are better given to the police than posted on an internet forum.  

Before posting here under this new name I phoned the independent inquiry and told them about Billie's posts and asked for advice about what to post here, specifically given that she was aged 16-18 at the time.  I was not sure whether the police or the inquiry would be interested in hearing from her.  

I only spoke to one person but he said that she was legally a minor because Terry was in a position of authority and that I should advise her to call 101 and ask to report non-recent child sexual exploitation.  

I honestly didn't want to give the impression of being another victim of Terry but realise that that is exactly what I have done, sorry I'm a bit all over the place emotionally at the moment and just doing the best I can to help.


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## cybershot (Nov 7, 2017)

justin credible said:


> I need to set the record straight here and should have done so in my first post using this name.
> 
> I am Louloubelle using a new user name, lost my old email details long ago and am living in the sticks with no internet connection so am posting this from a library.
> 
> ...



Sorry to hear you are all over the place at the moment, but this post is awesome. Stay strong.


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## existentialist (Nov 7, 2017)

justin credible said:


> I need to set the record straight here and should have done so in my first post using this name.
> 
> I am Louloubelle using a new user name, lost my old email details long ago and am living in the sticks with no internet connection so am posting this from a library.
> 
> ...


Thank you for having the courage to post, and so much kudos to you for taking that risk in the spirit of wanting to help others. I know how much courage that takes, and I truly believe that in doing that, you have enabled the possibility that a huge difference can be made as a result.

One of the awful things about child sexual abuse is the way in which one layer of abuse can enable another one to be perpetrated so much more easily, and at the same time reinforce the sense in the victim that "if it happened to me more than once, it must be somehow about me". Your story seems to fit that picture very well, but I hope you've already realised that it is not "somehow about you", but that your earlier abuse set you up to be abused again by the kind of predator who's developed their skills of spotting potential targets, and for whom someone already carrying the shame and pain of being abused is an almost-certain guarantee that they will succumb. But you've turned that corner now, and my hope for you is that you will be able to continue your journey of leaving that shame behind, whatever other good you might achieve outside yourself for doing that.


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## Billie Zsazsa (Nov 7, 2017)

existentialist said:


> Thank you for having the courage to post, and so much kudos to you for taking that risk in the spirit of wanting to help others. I know how much courage that takes, and I truly believe that in doing that, you have enabled the possibility that a huge difference can be made as a result.
> 
> One of the awful things about child sexual abuse is the way in which one layer of abuse can enable another one to be perpetrated so much more easily, and at the same time reinforce the sense in the victim that "if it happened to me more than once, it must be somehow about me". Your story seems to fit that picture very well, but I hope you've already realised that it is not "somehow about you", but that your earlier abuse set you up to be abused again by the kind of predator who's developed their skills of spotting potential targets, and for whom someone already carrying the shame and pain of being abused is an almost-certain guarantee that they will succumb. But you've turned that corner now, and my hope for you is that you will be able to continue your journey of leaving that shame behind, whatever other good you might achieve outside yourself for doing that.



Wow! Feeling like an enormous stick reaching from 30+ years ago has just been thwacked round my head. I’m reeling but at the same time relieved. I’m so grateful for your post and so sorry that you’re having a hard time at the moment. It is only through this thread that I am finally feeling angry about what happened to me rather than plain guilty.

I will do as you say as I feel I should make a statement for the record. I also think that opening up will help me further come to terms with all that happened back then.  I hope that all that you are going through helps you too.

Big virtual hug to you.


----------



## justin credible (Nov 8, 2017)

Billie Zsazsa said:


> Wow! Feeling like an enormous stick reaching from 30+ years ago has just been thwacked round my head. I’m reeling but at the same time relieved. I’m so grateful for your post and so sorry that you’re having a hard time at the moment. It is only through this thread that I am finally feeling angry about what happened to me rather than plain guilty.
> 
> I will do as you say as I feel I should make a statement for the record. I also think that opening up will help me further come to terms with all that happened back then.  I hope that all that you are going through helps you too.
> 
> Big virtual hug to you.



If you are feeling angry rather then guilty then I'm over the moon.  Rage is absolutely the correct emotion to have about adults taking advantage of vulnerable teenagers. It is easy for people to understand when someone like Harvey Weinstein rapes someone but people in general have not yet been able to get their collective heads around the fact that abused adults and children often feel culpable and often feel that they consented (even though not in a position to consent due to a massive difference in power and status). 

As a society we need to have discussions about the manipulation of consent, about cults, about (for want of a better word) brainwashing, about how people can be manipulated and groomed using soft rather than hard methods.  We need to think in depth about what it means when someone goes back to an abuser because of the Stockholm syndrome, because their choices are limited or because they exist in a cultural milieu in which saying  "no" feels impossible.

We need to think and to talk about power and its abuses and about how all kinds of bad people, from cults to sexual predators to psychic scammers to online fraudsters use soft methods of persuasion to hurt, groom, abuse and destroy people. Most people using these methods rely on the fact that their victims are usually too embarrassed, humiliated and guilty to seek redress. 

The amount of people, including children, being blackmailed on line (in relation to sexually explicit videos and images) due to soft MOs of grooming and deception is truly shocking. 

The number of people being scammed out of their savings by people like Juliet D'Souza is also beyond belief. 
excuse the mail link Britain's worst-ever conwoman Juliette D'Souza claims she is penniless | Daily Mail Online

Sorry to get all ranty, in a cafe so have to go in a mo, but Terry worked in a cult like environment where he was the cult leader and where he was surrounded by people whose goal in life seemed to be to make him happy at any cost. 

anyway, got to go big virtual hug back at you Billie


----------



## Billie Zsazsa (Nov 8, 2017)

justin credible said:


> If you are feeling angry rather then guilty then I'm over the moon.  Rage is absolutely the correct emotion to have about adults taking advantage of vulnerable teenagers. It is easy for people to understand when someone like Harvey Weinstein rapes someone but people in general have not yet been able to get their collective heads around the fact that abused adults and children often feel culpable and often feel that they consented (even though not in a position to consent due to a massive difference in power and status).
> 
> As a society we need to have discussions about the manipulation of consent, about cults, about (for want of a better word) brainwashing, about how people can be manipulated and groomed using soft rather than hard methods.  We need to think in depth about what it means when someone goes back to an abuser because of the Stockholm syndrome, because their choices are limited or because they exist in a cultural milieu in which saying  "no" feels impossible.
> 
> ...



I agree  wholeheartedly with all that you say. You have nailed how it was in your description.

I am expecting a detective to visit me in the next couple of days to take a statement. This will be sent on to Thames Valley Police who will be dealing with my case. I hope that will mean that anyone else who also comes forward will be taken seriously. 

None of us should carry the burden of guilt alone. Speaking out via the police must be the best action for anyone in our position to take.


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Nov 8, 2017)

cybershot said:


> The thread does seem to have taken an odd turn. Whilst coming forward may be difficult. If these new members are legit then I’d like to think others may follow. The fact this thread seems to be the only supporting evidence however does make me wonder if we just have the same person posting over and over in some weird smearing campaign.
> 
> Despite his death surely ed and the mods still have to protect against character assignations on here or u75 itself could face legal troubles or at least requests to shut this down sooner or later.




Their posting styles are very different.


I believe them.

It's annoyed me that you'd think "smear!" and "Protect our forum!" as a priority over the high possibility that the folks posting here are telling the truth.




ETA To acknowledge that I didn't spot that LouLoubelle is the same poster as justin credible .


----------



## cybershot (Nov 8, 2017)

SheilaNaGig said:


> Their posting styles are very different.
> 
> 
> I believe them.
> ...



There was no priorities to my thinking. It's just words.

I opted to not further reply because I didn't want the thread to further derail. Future postings proved that was wise. I've let it go, and decided to not historically do the . edit just because I was wrong.

Hopefully now those that want to choose to seek justice, will find the strength and courage in themselves with the help of others to do so. My posts since hopefully justify this.

Thanks


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## justin credible (Nov 11, 2017)

Billie Zsazsa said:


> I agree  wholeheartedly with all that you say. You have nailed how it was in your description.
> 
> I am expecting a detective to visit me in the next couple of days to take a statement. This will be sent on to Thames Valley Police who will be dealing with my case. I hope that will mean that anyone else who also comes forward will be taken seriously.
> 
> None of us should carry the burden of guilt alone. Speaking out via the police must be the best action for anyone in our position to take.



Good for you. It can take a while for these things to happen.  I was contacted fairly rapidly when I reported Terry to the cops years ago.  It has taken a while for the cops to get in touch re the earlier child abusers, although I was initially contacted by the Independent Inquiry and then Victim Support.  I don't understand how these things work, but don't worry of they don't get in touch as soon as you expected, I imagine they are overstretched resource wise and will get in touch as soon as they can. 

You are absolutely doing the right thing and I hope you feel proud to be helping the police over such an important issue.  

I just wanted to say, don't be surprised if all kinds of feelings come up for you and do make use of Victim Support and the support of your family and friends.  It is really important to take good care of yourself and cut yourself some slack if you feel moody and / or tearful or if any other feelings come up.  

Thank you also to Woburn Girl and NeptuneTitan for posting.  I would encourage both of you to phone 101 and report your experiences of Terry to the police if you have any information at all that might be helpful to them. 

If anyone else is reading this and can help the police in any way regarding Terry's offending please don't hesitate to call 101 and offer whatever information you can.


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## NeptuneTitan (Nov 25, 2017)

justin credible said:


> Thank you also to Woburn Girl and NeptuneTitan for posting.  I would encourage both of you to phone 101 and report your experiences of Terry to the police if you have any information at all that might be helpful to them.


As general manager for Entam Leisure, a subsidiary of Trusthouse Forte, Terry Nutkins was utterly ruthless in his pursuit of power. He removed anybody he perceived as a threat to his ambitions, and, although he was head of three dolphinaria at the time, he hated both dolphins and the people who trained them - so much so that he covertly removed the established trainers and replaced them with ignorant presenters. This was one of the reasons for Entam’s high dolphin mortality rate. Despite this, Nutkins managed to thrive – it appears to me that he was a bisexual psychopath who manipulated both the women and men who outranked him in the management hierarchy. His name was - and still is - protected. After his stint in dolphinaria, he worked closely with some major animal welfare charities, which - like former employers, including the BBC - kept his misdemeanours secret. These organisations had lofty reputations and a lot to lose. As for his love of animals, this was always an act – one that eventually made him rich and famous.

Well done, Justin Credible, for having the courage to expose this evil man. As for me, my approaching the police would not help your case. I was not underage, and was a strong and healthy young man. When I said No to Mr Nutkins’ advances, he had no option but to listen. However, following that rebuke, Nutkins went out of his way to make my life a misery, and I still hold him responsible for the death of my show dolphins. He was a monster, and I will never forgive him.


----------



## justin credible (Nov 26, 2017)

NeptuneTitan said:


> As general manager for Entam Leisure, a subsidiary of Trusthouse Forte, Terry Nutkins was utterly ruthless in his pursuit of power. He removed anybody he perceived as a threat to his ambitions, and, although he was head of three dolphinaria at the time, he hated both dolphins and the people who trained them - so much so that he covertly removed the established trainers and replaced them with ignorant presenters. This was one of the reasons for Entam’s high dolphin mortality rate. Despite this, Nutkins managed to thrive – it appears to me that he was a bisexual psychopath who manipulated both the women and men who outranked him in the management hierarchy. His name was - and still is - protected. After his stint in dolphinaria, he worked closely with some major animal welfare charities, which - like former employers, including the BBC - kept his misdemeanours secret. These organisations had lofty reputations and a lot to lose. As for his love of animals, this was always an act – one that eventually made him rich and famous.
> 
> Well done, Justin Credible, for having the courage to expose this evil man. As for me, my approaching the police would not help your case. I was not underage, and was a strong and healthy young man. When I said No to Mr Nutkins’ advances, he had no option but to listen. However, following that rebuke, Nutkins went out of his way to make my life a misery, and I still hold him responsible for the death of my show dolphins. He was a monster, and I will never forgive him.



He was a monster.

I cried after reading your post, partly because I was so upset, but partly also with relief at the validation of another human being, someone who knew Terry and the appalling way he treated humans and animals.  I am so sorry to hear of the loss of the dolphins you cared for and evidently loved. 

My memory of Terry is that he treated the dolphins in his care with sadism and contempt.

I discovered a book, some pages viewable via google books, written by a relative of Johnny Morris.  Some sample pages are viewable on google and the implications of what is written there are sinister in the extreme. 

The author describes Terry's abuse of Johnny Morris at a time when he was elderly and unwell, Terry isolating Johnny from his friends and family and well, I suggest that other take a look and see what they think.

The book certainly confirms the experiences of Terry's victims posting here that he was a manipulative psychopath and hints at even worse things.

Oh Yes, Dear! Johnny Morris O.b.e. - His Final Years

You are also completely correct that he was protected by various charities, businesses and the BBC.  The fact that this thread has been going for 5 years and that absolutely nothing has happened to expose Terry's abuses (if the above linked book's account is accurate Terry's family at the time of Johnny Morris's death were complicit in Terry's abuse of Johnny Morris and his family - may be an earlier marriage that his later family?) speaks volumes about how powerful psychopathic predatory perverts  can be protected even after death.

The whole thing is just outrageous

eta

page 264 and the following pages of the book re Johnny Morris's final years are er, interesting 

edited as I'm not sure about the page my link links to


----------



## Juno4000 (Nov 26, 2017)

I looked him up and read his parents gave him away aged 11 to live on an island with a pedophile and some otters. Is this true? If so it is no surprise he was a morally devious individual like Kevin Spacey


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## justin credible (Nov 26, 2017)

Juno4000 said:


> I looked him up and read his parents gave him away aged 11 to live on an island with a pedophile and some otters. Is this true? If so it is no surprise he was a morally devious individual like Kevin Spacey



Terry was adopted by an aristocratic gay man when he was 11 years old and went to live with him and another lad in a remote part of Scotland.  AFAIK some people have speculated about the unusual nature of this arrangement but I do not believe there is any proof that Maxwell was a paedophile or that Terry was abused, just people wondering about what might have happened to Terry when he was a lad. Possibly because people find it easier to believe that there are always wider environmental causal factors for psychopathy and abuse.  Hard for people to imagine that sometimes people just love power and gain sadistic gratification from abusing people because, somewhere deep down, they really enjoy it. 

FWIW  I have no idea whether Terry was abused as a kid.  He many have been, but IME / IMO it is entirely possible that he simply enjoyed abusing others and, because he got away with it for so long, had no motivation to stop.


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## planetgeli (Nov 26, 2017)

justin credible said:


> Terry was adopted by an aristocratic gay man when he was 11 years old and went to live with him and another lad in a remote part of Scotland.  AFAIK some people have speculated about the unusual nature of this arrangement but I do not believe there is any proof that Maxwell was a paedophile or that Terry was abused, just people wondering about what might have happened to Terry when he was a lad. Possibly because people find it easier to believe that there are always wider environmental causal factors for psychopathy and abuse.  Hard for people to imagine that sometimes people just love power and gain sadistic gratification from abusing people because, somewhere deep down, they really enjoy it.
> 
> FWIW  I have no idea whether Terry was abused as a kid.  He many have been, but IME / IMO it is entirely possible that he simply enjoyed abusing others and, because he got away with it for so long, had no motivation to stop.



The massively overwhelming majority of emotional, physical and sexual abuse does have causal factors. That an abuser might grow to love the power and sadistic gratification that comes with abuse does not negate those causal factors. 

There being something beyond the norm and exceedingly strange in Maxwell's 'adoption' of Nutkins is, to me, beyond doubt. And if that led to the career of abuse you and others suffered under, that too would be all too believable IMO.


----------



## justin credible (Nov 26, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> The massively overwhelming majority of emotional, physical and sexual abuse does have causal factors. That an abuser might grow to love the power and sadistic gratification that comes with abuse does not negate those causal factors.
> 
> There being something beyond the norm and exceedingly strange in Maxwell's 'adoption' of Nutkins is, to me, beyond doubt. And if that led to the career of abuse you and others suffered under, that too would be all too believable IMO.



I a not denying that there are any causal factors.  I just think it's lazy to assume that an abuser was abused as a child.

There may be other causal factors, e.g some head injuries that affect the parts of the brain that usually inhibit violent abuse of others.  There can also be genetic factors. 

Terry may have been abused as a child and the arrangement with Gavin Maxwell was certainly unusual, but AFAIK there has been no proof or evidence of such abuses, just speculation.

Psychological experiments such as the Stanford Prison Experiment demonstrate that, when placed in positions of absolute power and authority, many previously normal, mentally well balanced people can become capable of appalling abuses


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## planetgeli (Nov 26, 2017)

> in a Radio 4 documentary Nutkins described living with Maxwell as a "peculiar existence, in virtual isolation, with a man who was as charming as he was difficult, and whose depression led to severe mood swings"



Just in that one sentence there you might find reasons both as to why there is no evidence of abuse and, paradoxically, reasons for evidence of abuse too.


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## justin credible (Nov 26, 2017)

planetgeli said:


> Just in that one sentence there you might find reasons both as to why there is no evidence of abuse and, paradoxically, reasons for evidence of abuse too.



I think that the word "evidence" has a different meaning for you than it does for me.


----------



## planetgeli (Nov 26, 2017)

justin credible said:


> I think that the word "evidence" has a different meaning for you than it does for me.



I don’t think you’re reading what I’m saying.


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## justin credible (Nov 26, 2017)

There are suggestions that he might have been abused, I think they are credible but not proven.

I was abused as a child and an adult by various different predators.
I  have never sexually abused anyone, child or adult
I have also been in a therapy group for "survivors" where one group member was there to "recover memories of abuse" that she had no conscious memory of.  Her rationale?  She could remember sexually abusing a child so therefore she must have been abused herself. 

I can't even begin to talk about how angry thins kind of extrapolation makes me feel. 

Some abusers were abused themselves and some just get their jollies by abusing others.  I have no idea what did or did not happen to Terry but while we can wonder about the frankly weird and unusual situation he was in, and while it might make us all feel better to believe that he was abused, none of us know for sure.


----------



## planetgeli (Nov 26, 2017)

I never said we do know for sure and I certainly never, ever said that it is inevitable an abused person will go on to abuse.

You made a point about the word ‘evidence’. My point was this.

In that statement I quoted by Nutkins, there is both reason to intimate abuse (whether that be physical, sexual or emotional) because he says Maxwell has “severe mood swings” in a situation where the power dynamic was of an adult male living with what, under the circumstances, would be classed as a vulnerable minor AND reason for there to be no evidence of abuse due to the “virtual isolation” - and the power dynamic - that took place in.


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## pogofish (Nov 26, 2017)

justin credible said:


> but I do not believe there is any proof that Maxwell was a paedophile or that Terry was abused, just people wondering about what might have happened to Terry when he was a lad.



There is however plenty of proof that Maxwell was a misanthrope, prone to extreme mood swings/emotional instability and a functional alcoholic. Even his closest friends/associates testify to his often "mercurial" personality.

None of which makes for particularly promising material as a guardian.


----------



## justin credible (Nov 27, 2017)

pogofish said:


> There is however plenty of proof that Maxwell was a misanthrope, prone to extreme mood swings/emotional instability and a functional alcoholic. Even his closest friends/associates testify to his often "mercurial" personality.
> 
> None of which makes for particularly promising material as a guardian.



Of course

but in the grand scheme of things who really gives a shit about whether or not Terry was abused as a kid? 

It's interesting how threads about emotionally charges subjects start to have parallel processes to the subjects themselves.

In the Jimmy Savile OBE thread people who had been abused by him were not believed, reflecting what happened IRL

In this thread various people post about either being abused by Terry or witnessing his psychopathy towards humans and other animals and I post a link to a first person account describing Terry's abuse of Johnny Morris and his friends and family by Terry.  Anyone bothering to read the link would have found a friend of Johnny (Angela Morris - not a family member despite the name) describing how Terry isolated Johnny from his friends and family, pretended to be Johnny's next of kin in order to prevent friends and family from visiting him on his death bed and manipulated Johnny while he was extremely ill and vulnerable.  According to the book someone (probably Terry) also fed fake news about Johnny family to the press, who reported it without question.  

There are always more than one side to a story but anyone who is interested in Terry and his abuses and behaviour has a great opportunity to read up about his behaviour towards Johnny Morris and his loved ones.  FWIW the author of the book has an interest in psychics / mediums and the supernatural that I find quite off-putting, however the account she gives resonates extremely well with the first person accounts here of Terry's psychopathic / manipulative tendencies. 

Funny thing is nobody commented on the book.  The conversation immediately turned to a claim that Terry's parents "gave him away to a paedophile" - something for which there is absolutely no proof. 

Granted Gavin Maxwell was referred to as a creative psychopath.  He was widely reported to be a gay man whose tastes were for younger men.  None of these things mean that he was a paedophile and I find it offensive that people claim that he was based on no actual evidence. 

It seems to me that here we are again with the thread reflecting events in real life.  Rather than take the opportunity to educate themselves about first person accounts by people who were abused by Terry people make it all about Terry and his experiences.  

Just as IRL, it's not that people don't believe us, people do, they would just rather think about whether Terry had a hard time as a kid.  

Maybe I'm just feeling too sensitive at the moment, I am a bit all over the place but I'm not going to take part in further speculations about whether or not Terry was abused as a kid. What matters to me is that his victims, and there are many, gain validation and closure.


----------



## Billie Zsazsa (Nov 27, 2017)

NeptuneTitan said:


> As general manager for Entam Leisure, a subsidiary of Trusthouse Forte, Terry Nutkins was utterly ruthless in his pursuit of power. He removed anybody he perceived as a threat to his ambitions, and, although he was head of three dolphinaria at the time, he hated both dolphins and the people who trained them - so much so that he covertly removed the established trainers and replaced them with ignorant presenters. This was one of the reasons for Entam’s high dolphin mortality rate. Despite this, Nutkins managed to thrive – it appears to me that he was a bisexual psychopath who manipulated both the women and men who outranked him in the management hierarchy. His name was - and still is - protected. After his stint in dolphinaria, he worked closely with some major animal welfare charities, which - like former employers, including the BBC - kept his misdemeanours secret. These organisations had lofty reputations and a lot to lose. As for his love of animals, this was always an act – one that eventually made him rich and famous.
> 
> Well done, Justin Credible, for having the courage to expose this evil man. As for me, my approaching the police would not help your case. I was not underage, and was a strong and healthy young man. When I said No to Mr Nutkins’ advances, he had no option but to listen. However, following that rebuke, Nutkins went out of his way to make my life a misery, and I still hold him responsible for the death of my show dolphins. He was a monster, and I will never forgive him.


I would urge you to report your experiences to Bedfordshire police. I can assure you they would be interested in any information which helps them to build a picture of all that went on back then- even if there was not direct crime committed against you. What you say supports what those of us who were victims are beginning to raise our voices about.


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## Billie Zsazsa (Nov 27, 2017)

Billie Zsazsa said:


> I would urge you to report your experiences to Bedfordshire police. I can assure you they would be interested in any information which helps them to build a picture of all that went on back then- even if there was not direct crime committed against you. What you say supports what those of us who were victims are beginning to raise our voices about.


Just being heard helps. Knowing that others are also speaking out makes me feel so much stronger, and very very sad for my 17 year old self who faced all this alone. It’s only by hearing others’ stories that I can shake off the shame and self-loathing I have carried for 33 years.
Be heard. Make a statement to the police.


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## Billie Zsazsa (Nov 28, 2017)

Woburn girl said:


> I did wonder if i was the only one, but now I know that there were others too Louloubelle. I was older at 17 but looked younger. Living in Woburn and working at the Abbey. Terry never got very far with me thank goodness, but he did try hard. I too got a soaking, by being thrown in the dolphin pool fully clothed.  I was given an ultimatum by him. He was going away for two weeks and I was expected to sleep with him when he got back or I would lose my job. I left the job before he returned from his holiday. I went to the Citizens advice bureau to ask advice on the situation I was put in by him, and was told to leave the job and forget about it. I left the job, but never forgot. I must admit to being happy he has gone.


Woburn girl. Please make a statement to the police. I have done and feel it was a really positive act. They are attempting to piece together what went on but without statements from victims their investigations will come to nothing. Dial 101 and ask to report an historic case of sexual exploitation.


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## Billie Zsazsa (Nov 28, 2017)

Billie Zsazsa said:


> Woburn girl. Please make a statement to the police. I have done and feel it was a really positive act. They are attempting to piece together what went on but without statements from victims their investigations will come to nothing. Dial 101 and ask to report an historic case of sexual exploitation.


What you have said corroborates what others have said, so even though he didn’t get very far with you your statement would be important.


----------



## justin credible (Nov 28, 2017)

I have to say that I am also extremely angry that, even after reporting Terry to the BBC by telephone TWICE, the last time being in 2006, that they would not even make a record of my call.  Both times I was treated with derision and told that I could be a fantasist or a person with a grudge when I begged them to take me seriously that Terry was a danger to children.  

I subsequently contacted them by telephone in the wake of the Savile scandal and gave evidence to a BBC staff person on the phone as part of the Savile inquiry  I received a letter offering a brief apology that the phone service was not as good as it should have been and telling me that lessons had been learned.  

What I do not understand is why, if lessons had been learned, they have not produced a television programme exposing the evil man for what he really was.  

I also do not understand why they did not invite me to the BBC in person to take part in the official inquiry. 

I can only second Billie Zsazsa's plea that anyone who is able to, and I understand that not all victims will feel able to, contact the police ASAP.


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## NeptuneTitan (Mar 23, 2018)

To everyone on this forum speaking about BBC TV celebrity Terry Nutkins' abusive nature. The internet is buzzing about the revelations of his cruelty towards captive dolphins when he was general manager of Entam Leisure's UK dolphinaria in the early 1970s. The book series is known as The Perfect Pair Dolphin Trilogy. Well worth checking out.


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## Sea Star (Mar 23, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Tributes listed here are fairly sparse:
> 
> Wildlife presenter Nutkins dies





> comedian Ricky Gervais said he was a "thoroughly nice chap



says it all really


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## InfoBurner (Mar 23, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> To everyone on this forum speaking about BBC TV celebrity Terry Nutkins' abusive nature. The internet is buzzing about the revelations of his cruelty towards captive dolphins when he was general manager of Entam Leisure's UK dolphinaria in the early 1970s. The book series is known as The Perfect Pair Dolphin Trilogy. Well worth checking out.



My internet isn't buzzing with Nutkin related revelations. Rather than read this Dolphin Trilogy, how about give me a synopsis?


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## twentythreedom (Mar 23, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> To everyone on this forum speaking about BBC TV celebrity Terry Nutkins' abusive nature. The internet is buzzing about the revelations of his cruelty towards captive dolphins when he was general manager of Entam Leisure's UK dolphinaria in the early 1970s. The book series is known as The Perfect Pair Dolphin Trilogy. Well worth checking out.


What are the revelations?


----------



## pogofish (Mar 23, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> To everyone on this forum speaking about BBC TV celebrity Terry Nutkins' abusive nature. The internet is buzzing about the revelations of his cruelty towards captive dolphins when he was general manager of Entam Leisure's UK dolphinaria in the early 1970s. The book series is known as The Perfect Pair Dolphin Trilogy. Well worth checking out.



I think you will find that Nutkin's dolphinaria activities are already on record here - Without any reference to any particular book!


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## NeptuneTitan (Mar 23, 2018)

InfoBurner said:


> My internet isn't buzzing with Nutkin related revelations. Rather than read this Dolphin Trilogy, how about a give me a synopsis?


Check Twitter talk.


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## tim (Mar 23, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> Check Twitter talk.




An incredibly insensitive and incompetent attempt at book promotion, I doubt you will get tth sales boost you were hoping for


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## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> What are the revelations?


Overrated


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## NeptuneTitan (Mar 23, 2018)

I suggest you ask Pickman's model for more details about the revelations as he clearly knows more than he's letting on. Did you guys actually know Terry Nutkins? Well, I did, and I wouldn't put anything past that psychopath.


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## Sea Star (Mar 23, 2018)

Apparently Nutkins bought a farm from a relation of my partner and instead of preserving it and the wildlife around it, as he had promised, he knocked it down and built his publishing business over it.


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## bellaozzydog (Mar 23, 2018)

crossthebreeze said:


> Its not Chris Packham in that video, its an impressionist called Pete Walsh using a face swap app



Good grief watching that really bent my brain, thought I was tripping out


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## NeptuneTitan (Mar 23, 2018)

tim said:


> An incredibly insensitive and incompetent attempt at book promotion, I doubt you will get tth sales boost you were hoping for


Hope I don't offend you, but I'm about to insensitively and incompetently promote two more books that give Terry Nutkins a bad press. Oh Yes, Dear!:Johnny Morris OBE - His Final Years and The Rose-Tinted Menagerie.


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## NeptuneTitan (Mar 23, 2018)

Sea Star said:


> Apparently Nutkins bought a farm from a relation of my partner and instead of preserving it and the wildlife around it, as he had promised, he knocked it down and built his publishing business over it.


I'm not surprised. This man was totally ruthless in everything he did. And although he tried to paint himself as the new Attenborough, he was certainly no conservationist.


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## Sea Star (Mar 23, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> I'm not surprised. This man was totally ruthless in everything he did. And although he tried to paint himself as the new Attenborough, he was certainly no conservationist.


my partner did meet him too - said he seemed quite arrogant.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

tim said:


> An incredibly insensitive and incompetent attempt at book promotion, I doubt you will get tth sales boost you were hoping for


He posted on here last year too with no book ref as far as I can tell. You guys are pretty para for non tin foil hatters haha


----------



## InfoBurner (Mar 23, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> You guys are pretty para for non tin foil hatters haha



No, we're (mainly) empiricists. Give us evidence and sources, or at least quotes if you're gonna bump and contribute to such a sensitive thread.


----------



## tim (Mar 23, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> Hope I don't offend you, but I'm about to insensitively and incompetently promote two more books that give Terry Nutkins a bad press. Oh Yes, Dear!:Johnny Morris OBE - His Final Years and The Rose-Tinted Menagerie.



Nutkin already been exposed on this thread by people who have suffered at his hands. You seem to bebtaking advantage of tbeir experiences to promote a book you have a link to. You have added nothing new to the thread


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

InfoBurner said:


> No we're (mainly) empiricists. Give us evidence and sources or at least quotes if you're gonna bump and contribute to such a sensitive thread.


I didn’t bump the thread, I searched and that poster isn’t new. I will not dig out the quotes for you because it’s a sensitive thread so back off...


ETA and search the fucking username, on this thread, empiricist.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

tim said:


> Nutkin already been exposed on this thread by people who have suffered at his hands. You seem to bebtaking advantage of tbeir experiences to promote a book you have a link to. You have added nothing new to the thread


yes by this poster too back in 2017. Maybe wind your neck in? Detective


----------



## InfoBurner (Mar 23, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> I didn’t bump the thread




NeptuneTitan bumped the thread and provided no new evidence, only that we might want to read a trilogy of books for fuck knows what relevant information. Maybe we should buy the books to find out? £.

If you're going to re-initiate  a discussion, give some new information or engage with something that's already on the thread. Don't just say that the 'Internet's buzzing'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> I suggest you ask Pickman's model for more details about the revelations as he clearly knows more than he's letting on. Did you guys actually know Terry Nutkins? Well, I did, and I wouldn't put anything past that psychopath.


Not sure the allegations sufficient to require a trilogy


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

InfoBurner said:


> NeptuneTitan bumped the thread and provided no new evidence only that we might want to read a trilogy of books for fuck knows what relevant information. Maybe we should buy the books to find out? £.
> 
> If you're going to re-initiate  a discussion, give some new information or engage with something that's already on the thread. Don't just say that the 'Internet's buzzing'.


That wasn't the first time the poster appeared on this thread though, so is probs bumping because of the book release, but not for the reason you make out. But why bother, you aren’t even going to do that wee search are you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> That wasn't the first time the poster appeared on this thread though, so is probs bumping because of the book release, but not for the reason you make out. But why bother, you aren’t even going to do that wee search are you.


NT has made seven posts, not sure what you're getting at


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> NT has made seven posts, not sure what you're getting at


I’d have thought a pedant like yourself would have actually read those 7 posts and then come up with a plausible explanation as to why someone would post an account of abuse in 2017 and the try to sell a book in 2018, maybe he just thinks you should read the book. Mad, I know, or maybe publicists really are that organised. Haaaaa


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> I’d have thought a pedant like yourself would have actually read those 7 posts and then come up with a plausible explanation as to why someone would post an account of abuse in 2017 and the try to sell a book in 2018, maybe he just thinks you should read the book. Mad, I know, or maybe publicists really are that organised. Haaaaa


he made a pass at me which I swiftly dealt with and it never happened again is not an account of abuse


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> he made a pass at me which I swiftly dealt with and it never happened again is not an account of abuse


Fine whatevs. But did he post that in 2017 cause he wanted to promote a book now?!? You need to be sure I would think to say that.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> he made a pass at me which I swiftly dealt with and it never happened again is not an account of abuse


m
You also neglect to mention the age that happened. I think late teens would be considered dodgy by most of us, we of course don’t know how late. 16? That ok?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

...


----------



## tim (Mar 23, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Fine whatevs. But did he post that in 2017 cause he wanted to promote a book now?!? You need to be sure I would think to say that.



If NeptuneTitan had made post saying that he'd written a book that included a chapter about his encounters with Nutkin there would not have been a hostile response. Instead we got sensationalist crap about the Internet buzzing and twitter feeds going into meltdown


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

tim said:


> If NeptuneTitan had made post saying that he'd written the a book that included a chapter about his encounters wirh Nutkin there would not have been a hostile response. Instead ww got sensationalist crap about the Internet buzzing and twitter feeds going into meltdown



The point is you made an accusation which doesn’t really stand up to even the little evidence there is on here. I couldn’t give a fuck if the poster sounds clickbait, it’s 2018 you will need to try and get used to that. It’s everywhere.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 23, 2018)

tim said:


> If NeptuneTitan had made post saying that he'd written a book that included a chapter about his encounters with Nutkin there would not have been a hostile response. Instead we got sensationalist crap about the Internet buzzing and twitter feeds going into meltdown


And you are doing an amazing job of swerving the information I have directed you to twice now.


----------



## Corax (Mar 24, 2018)

I just don't understand why NeptuneTitan hates dolphins so much?


----------



## bellaozzydog (Mar 24, 2018)

Good lord, scary stuff reading this.

My lodger is a zoo keeper and I can see patterns of fucked up behaviour amongst the zoo hierarchy, it's a weird business, wanting to work with caged animals is an unusual psychology, as people creep up the slippery, badly paid pole they can definitely find themselves in quite dark places.  It's ripe for deficient, creepy, power structures.

Personally when watching him  I alway thought nutkins  was a creepy weirdo 

However I completely failed to register chris packham as anything other than a super keep naturalist ( despite seeing him in various clubs and bars around southampton as a student) 

Shudder


----------



## Sea Star (Mar 24, 2018)

So, the Mighty Boosh could have been a documentary!


----------



## bellaozzydog (Mar 24, 2018)

Sea Star said:


> So, the Mighty Boosh could have been a documentary!



Never seen it, am I deficient


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> m
> You also neglect to mention the age that happened. I think late teens would be considered dodgy by most of us, we of course don’t know how late. 16? That ok?


Making a pass is abuse? Even if it is so considered, it's not on a par with the genuine horrifying abuse other people have shared


----------



## Sea Star (Mar 24, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> Never seen it, am I deficient


no, not at all. But the first series was set in a zoo with a dictatorial and abusive manager - the animals and the staff were treated really badly....


oh, and I've met Chris Packham and a friend of mine has met him quite a few times and he comes across as nothing but a genuinely lovely and caring man. I think because he's an aspie (as am I) then some people might think otherwise, but it looks to me like he works really hard to overcome his autism when doing his public appearances - which must be exhausting and stressful for him.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Making a pass is abuse? Even if it is so considered, it's not on a par with the genuine horrifying abuse other people have shared


Yeessss I know but like my point about the book still stands. Morning everyone, guess who has a sore head!


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Yeessss I know but like my point about the book still stands. Morning everyone, guess who has a sore head!


your point really rather weak and it's books, a trilogy no less: lord of the nuts, perhaps. Or pervdark.


----------



## Corax (Mar 24, 2018)

It's particularly galling when your abuser dies, and you have to read the loving tales of what a wonderful man they were. I posted as such about the staff member who abused me, on the school's unofficial forum 'RIP' thread. It got deleted. The school were under investigation because of other staff members, one of whom was convicted, three pending. The police couldn't do anything about my case because he's, well... dead. So I have to live with people thinking he was such a _smashing _chap.


----------



## elbows (Mar 24, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> m
> You also neglect to mention the age that happened. I think late teens would be considered dodgy by most of us, we of course don’t know how late. 16? That ok?



I am glad that society is finding ways to be more nuanced about this sort of dodgy. ie looking at the power context and whether some adults are using the power of their position to prey on those who are only just coming of age. eg teacher-pupil relationships.

Because otherwise, some of the 'judging whats dodgy' was historically all mixed up with some shit attitudes towards gay people, leading to things like inequalities of age of consent.

Late teens means 17-19 to me, 16 would be mid teen, which is partly why I've made this point now.


----------



## justin credible (Mar 24, 2018)

I think that Neptune Titan made valuable contributions to this thread earlier on but I have tried and failed to find the information he refers to about the internet buzzing with stuff about Terry.

I would very much like to find it and to hear more about Neptune Titan's experiences about Terry without having to buy and read 3 books, a hoop too many for me to jump through right now.



Corax said:


> It's particularly galling when your abuser dies, and you have to read the loving tales of what a wonderful man they were. I posted as such about the staff member who abused me, on the school's unofficial forum 'RIP' thread. It got deleted. The school were under investigation because of other staff members, one of whom was convicted, three pending. The police couldn't do anything about my case because he's, well... dead. So I have to live with people thinking he was such a _smashing _chap.



I'm so very sorry to hear that this happened to you and I can relate to it very much.  I can appreciate that the police have to concentrate on pursuing abusers who are alive and who are a threat to children but it really hurts to hear what a "lovely chap" such and such an abuser was / is from people who have no idea or who are wilfully ignorant.


----------



## elbows (Mar 24, 2018)

justin credible said:


> I think that Neptune Titan made valuable contributions to this thread earlier on but I have tried and failed to find the information he refers to about the internet buzzing with stuff about Terry.



There are a handful of tweets on twitter, a small number of people having a conversation about it briefly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

elbows said:


> There are a handful of tweets on twitter, a small number of people having a conversation about it briefly.


The trilogy will be three sheets of a6


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

tim said:


> An incredibly insensitive and incompetent attempt at book promotion, I doubt you will get tth sales boost you were hoping for


Who in their right mind would try to promote a story on a thread with only some 40 people? Sales boost? What planet are you living on? By the way, you got on this Nutkins thread pretty quickly considering you've NEVER been on it before, and you have a lot to say. So for how long did you know Mr Nutkins?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 24, 2018)

He was obviously exaggerating on the buzzing front perhaps because he has a rubbish turn of phrase, but there did seem to be an exchange on it on Twitter a few days ago. But like Justin credible said his previous contribution was valuable enough. 


elbows said:


> I am glad that society is finding ways to be more nuanced about this sort of dodgy. ie looking at the power context and whether some adults are using the power of their position to prey on those who are only just coming of age. eg teacher-pupil relationships.
> 
> Because otherwise, some of the 'judging whats dodgy' was historically all mixed up with some shit attitudes towards gay people, leading to things like inequalities of age of consent.
> 
> Late teens means 17-19 to me, 16 would be mid teen, which is partly why I've made this point now.


That said, I didn’t pick up on it because the person in question was male, would have said the same thing if they were female. Might have been a better point to make re the idea the gay man that adopted him muuust have abused him. Where is the evidence?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> Who in their right mind would try to promote a story on a thread with only some 40 people? Sales boost? What planet are you living on? By the way, you got on this Nutkins thread pretty quickly considering you've NEVER been on it before, and you have a lot to say. So for how long did you know Mr Nutkins?


The salesman returns!


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> He posted on here last year too with no book ref as far as I can tell. You guys are pretty para for non tin foil hatters haha


Thank you, HoratioCuthbert, for your defence As you rightly point out, I have posted on this thread before - unlike Tim and InfoBurner, who have miraculously appeared to throw accusations. Doesn't their sudden appearance strike everyone as odd? It does me. Maybe this thread has a couple of Terry Nutkins' fan boys in camp. I posted because I thought there might be genuine interest in breaking news about the abusive Nutkins. My mistake.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

tim said:


> Nutkin already been exposed on this thread by people who have suffered at his hands. You seem to bebtaking advantage of tbeir experiences to promote a book you have a link to. You have added nothing new to the thread


I'm surprised you'd know ... you've only just joined this thread. Maybe you have a different agenda. As for being abused by Nutkins, as I posted last year - WITHOUT MENTIONING ANY BOOKS - there's more than one way to abuse a person, and, believe me, I went through it.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

InfoBurner said:


> No, we're (mainly) empiricists. Give us evidence and sources, or at least quotes if you're gonna bump and contribute to such a sensitive thread.


Yes, and you're another one who's NEVER been on this thread before with a lot to say. Are you another one of Terry's boys trying to undermine this forum?


----------



## elbows (Mar 24, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> He was obviously exaggerating on the buzzing front perhaps because he has a rubbish turn of phrase, but there did seem to be an exchange on it on Twitter a few days ago. But like Justin credible said his previous contribution was valuable enough.
> 
> That said, I didn’t pick up on it because the person in question was male, would have said the same thing if they were female. Might have been a better point to make re the idea the gay man that adopted him muuust have abused him. Where is the evidence?



Indeed. I should also have gone on about the other side to the point I was trying to make about certain historical attitudes - that it also spoke of historical attitudes towards young women and older men, that in various contexts this was considered 'fair game' or something to be cheered by some, whilst the gay equivalent with the same age gap involved 'sexual deviancy' and was to be condemned. And of course when I say historically we know that these attitudes are not completely dead.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Not sure the allegations sufficient to require a trilogy


So let me get this right. You are following a thread about Nutkins and his abuses. And you have READ the story I alerted the forum to BEFORE anyone knew that Nutkins was alleged to be the villain. You've been rumbled, mate! Another cuckoo in the nest.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> he made a pass at me which I swiftly dealt with and it never happened again is not an account of abuse


No, because I was a strong male in my teens. Nutkins couldn't force himself on me the way he did on others. But by heaven I paid the price - and so did my beautiful dolphins. The man was a monster - and you are backing him up. On every post on this forum, you either question allegations made or make some snide comment. As I said before, you have been rumbled.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> The trilogy will be three sheets of a6


See - snide remark. Very helpful and very predictable.


----------



## InfoBurner (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> Yes, and you're another one who's NEVER been on this thread before with a lot to say. Are you another one of Terry's boys trying to undermine this forum?



I've been reading this thread with concern since it started. The testimony within is shocking. The man seems a monster. 

Now how about stating what the internet was abuzz about, maybe quote from these bloody books, you're so keen on. Who the fuck are 'Terry's boys' ? and why would longstanding members of this community be one of them?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> So let me get this right. You are following a thread about Nutkins and his abuses. And you have READ the story I alerted the forum to BEFORE anyone knew that Nutkins was alleged to be the villain. You've been rumbled, mate! Another cuckoo in the nest.


Yeh? Can't think offhand of an author who required three books to detail the criminal career of the likes of the krays, pablo escobar, sir jimmy savile obe kcsg... Yet you're going to do a trilogy on the master criminal terry nutkins. And, what's stranger, you actually expect people to believe you. Where and when can volume one of your magnificent octopus be bought?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> See - snide remark. Very helpful and very predictable.


The simple fact of the matter is I don't believe you about the trilogy. And why should I?


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> m
> You also neglect to mention the age that happened. I think late teens would be considered dodgy by most of us, we of course don’t know how late. 16? That ok?


Hard to recall ... 17 or 18 years old.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Corax said:


> I just don't understand why NeptuneTitan hates dolphins so much?


I don't hate dolphins ... Nutkins hated dolphins.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> No, because I was a strong male in my teens. Nutkins couldn't force himself on me the way he did on others. But by heaven I paid the price - and so did my beautiful dolphins. The man was a monster - and you are backing him up. On every post on this forum, you either question allegations made or make some snide comment. As I said before, you have been rumbled.


Bollocks am I backing him up. But let's cut to the chase: say what you mean in words no one can misunderstand and we'll take things from there.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

InfoBurner said:


> I've been reading this thread with concern since it started. The testimony within is shocking. The man seems a monster.
> 
> Now how about stating what the internet was abuzz about, maybe quote from these bloody books, you're so keen on. Who the fuck are 'Terry's boys' ? and why would longstanding members of this community be one of them?


Reading this thread, but only commenting now. Interesting. Where have you been for the last few years? I wouldn't talk about the books if I were you, because someone might accuse you of promoting them.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Bollocks am I backing him up. But let's cut to the chase: say what you mean in words no one can misunderstand and we'll take things from there.


You don't understand English? I posted on this forum in good faith, not to explain myself to morons like you.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh? Can't think offhand of an author who required three books to detail the criminal career of the likes of the krays, pablo escobar, sir jimmy savile obe kcsg... Yet you're going to do a trilogy on the master criminal terry nutkins. And, what's stranger, you actually expect people to believe you. Where and when can volume one of your magnificent octopus be bought?


Where do you get this information from? How so knowledgeable? Why so aggressive? Don't you think you've dug yourself in deep enough? Everybody on this forum now knows exactly what you are. A Nutkins plant.


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> The simple fact of the matter is I don't believe you about the trilogy. And why should I?


I personally don't care what you believe. Why should I?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> Where do you get this information from? How so knowledgeable? Why so aggressive? Don't you think you've dug yourself in deep enough? Everybody on this forum now knows exactly what you are. A Nutkins plant.


I'm thinking of profession of violence about the krays,  that book about escobar by the man who did black hawk down - bowden? - and tho I've not read any books about savile I've £50 says no one's written a trilogy about him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> I personally don't care what you believe. Why should I?


 Imitation *is* the sincerest form of flattery


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm thinking of profession of violence about the krays,  that book about escobar by the man who did black hawk down - bowden? - and tho I've not read any books about savile I've £50 says no one's written a trilogy about him.


What on earth are your rambling about?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> What on earth are your rambling about?


Do you remember asking where I got information from? Well, I answered you


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Do you remember asking where I got information from? Well, I answered you


 No you didn't. You just rambled on about stuff that has nothing to do with Nutkins.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> No you didn't. You just rambled on about stuff that has nothing to do with Nutkins.


What information are you on about? From where I'm sitting you're a shot short of a double

The notion I'm a Nutkins plant is ludicrous. What, back in 2003 he said to me "pm, some day I'll die and people will say awful things about me. Go onto this Internet board and prepare for the day'?

Hmm


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> What information are you on about? From where I'm sitting you're a shot short of a double


And from where I'm sitting, you've BLOWN YOUR COVER.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> And from where I'm sitting, you've BLOWN YOUR COVER.


From where I'm sitting you've lost your mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> And from where I'm sitting, you've BLOWN YOUR COVER.


Go on, show me one nice thing I've said about tn


----------



## NeptuneTitan (Mar 24, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Go on, show me one nice thing I've said about tn[/QUOTE


 The only 'nice' thing you posted was the tributes to Nutkins sourced from the internet. However, replies to posters such as "i notice you don't have the balls to quote editor and say the same thing." and "Just out of curiosity, have you some evidence with which to substantiate your claim?", then your marked aggression towards me when I mentioned the story - which you clearly already knew about in surprising detail - highlighted your true intent. Terry Nutkins has got away with abuse over the years because he has had an army of people protecting him one way or another. People like you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> The only 'nice' thing you posted was the tributes to Nutkins sourced from the internet. However, replies to posters such as "i notice you don't have the balls to quote editor and say the same thing." and "Just out of curiosity, have you some evidence with which to substantiate your claim?", then your marked aggression towards me when I mentioned the story - which you clearly already knew about in surprising detail - highlighted your true intent. Terry Nutkins has got away with abuse over the years because he has had an army of people protecting him one way or another. People like you.


Yes. People like me. Lots of people like me. I've protected Nutkins to the same extent I protected Hindley and Brady and Savile and auld Charlie Peace: which is to say, not at all. You're long on allegations and considerably shorter on evidence which isn't surprising as there's nothing to support your mendacious claim I'm a Nutkins plant and even less to support your vile slur that I'm an apologist for animal and child abusers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> The only 'nice' thing you posted was the tributes to Nutkins sourced from the internet. However, replies to posters such as "i notice you don't have the balls to quote editor and say the same thing." and "Just out of curiosity, have you some evidence with which to substantiate your claim?", then your marked aggression towards me when I mentioned the story - which you clearly already knew about in surprising detail - highlighted your true intent. Terry Nutkins has got away with abuse over the years because he has had an army of people protecting him one way or another. People like you.


Where did I give you the impression I knew about the story in 'surprising detail'


----------



## kenny g (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan - PM is quite a few things - but I would be surprised if he were a nutkins plant.


----------



## Corax (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> Everybody on this forum now knows exactly what you are. A Nutkins plant.


Pickman's model has indeed been playing the long game. All leading up to... this moment.


----------



## Corax (Mar 24, 2018)

NeptuneTitan said:


> I don't hate dolphins ... Nutkins hated dolphins.


You're the one gloating about doing unspeakable things to dolphins. Not Nutkins- you.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 24, 2018)

Amazingly, I didn't realise he was dead til just now. Everytime I saw this thread I assumed it was a internet hoax like Tony Hart (before he really died). I never realised Nutkins was actually dead for real. RIP Terry.


----------



## Corax (Mar 24, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Amazingly, I didn't realise he was dead til just now. Everytime I saw this thread I assumed it was a internet hoax like Tony Hart (before he really died). I never realised Nutkins was actually dead for real. RIP Terry.


You might want to read the rest of the thread before offering those condolences...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 24, 2018)

Corax said:


> You might want to read the rest of the thread before offering those condolences...



Oh was he a cunt then? I couldn’t be arsed to read tbh.


----------



## Corax (Mar 24, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Oh was he a cunt then? I couldn’t be arsed to read tbh.


Kiddie fiddling cunt. Allegedly.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 24, 2018)

Uh...


----------



## keybored (Mar 24, 2018)

Sea Star said:


> Apparently Nutkins bought a farm



_the_ farm, you might say.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 25, 2018)

This is a very strange thead, just about the only thing that makes sense is that pickman’s is a Nutkins plant, as many of us have suspected for a few years now.


----------



## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> This is a very strange thead, just about the only thing that makes sense that that pickman’s is a Nutkins plant, as many of us have suspected for a few years now.


First three and a half words are right enough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> First three and a half words are right enough.


This is a ve


----------



## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> This is a ve


No. 

Pickman's is a nut.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> No.
> 
> Pickman's is a nut.


Yeh. When in doubt make it mental, that's your mantra. Given what you've said about your own mental health over the years you ought to know better. Don't see me going round describing you as a nut.


----------



## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. When in doubt make it mental, that's your mantra. Given what you've said about your own mental health over the years you ought to know better. Don't see me going round describing you as a nut.



I've been treated by a doctor for depression on more than one occasion. This is just a game where you get to be as rude and nasty as you possibly can without breaking a very specific set of rules isn't it. I don't share your enthusiasm for language control unfortunately. 

Anyway, I just work with what I'm given. I would rather he had said Pickman's is an Arsenal fan.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Mar 25, 2018)

So, do we have a definitive link between dolphins or dolphin square now?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> I've been treated by a doctor for depression on more than one occasion. This is just a game where you get to be as rude and nasty as you possibly can without breaking a very specific set of rules isn't it. I don't share your enthusiasm for language control unfortunately.
> 
> Anyway, I just work with what I'm given. I would rather he had said Pickman's is an Arsenal fan.


yeh. you jump in here with your innumerate insults and think I should respond nicely when big auld maomao favours me with a bon mot. It ain't like that, chuck. You're like captain ahab in your pursuit of me, seeing in me all that's wrong with urban as you've said once or twice. You sad obsessive. Hope it ends better for you than auld ahab tho


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. you jump in here with your innumerate insults and think I should respond nicely when big auld maomao favours me with a bon mot. It ain't like that, chuck. You're like captain ahab in your pursuit of me, seeing in me all that's wrong with urban as you've said once or twice. You sad obsessive. Hope it ends better for you than auld ahab tho


I never expect you to respond nicely and if any bons mots have gone your way I assure you it was accidental.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> I never expect you to respond nicely and if any bons mots have gone your way I assure you it was accidental.


Aye aye cap'n


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Aye aye cap'n


Fuck off Dick.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> Fuck off Dick.


the first three and a half words  off to remedial numeracy with you


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> the first three and a half words  off to remedial numeracy with you


3.42 words


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> 3.42 words


Only if you start counting at 17 you pillock


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> From where I'm sitting you've lost your mind.


Yeah. That's much better than calling someone a nut.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> Yeah. That's much better than calling someone a nut.


Yes, it is.


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Yes, it is


How? Go on. It means the same thing. It's in the dictionary meaning 'to go mad'. What makes it okay for you to say that and then single me out for calling you a nut?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> How? Go on. It means the same thing. It's in the dictionary meaning 'to go mad'. What makes it okay for you to say that and then single me out for calling you a nut?


The dictionary you say? I thought you didn't hold with such things. Or is it only when they support your case? You certainly don't trust them on such things as past participles.


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> The dictionary you say? I thought you didn't hold with such things. Or is it only when they support your case? You certainly don't trust them on such things as past participles.



So you can't justify it?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> So you can't justify it?


Justify what? Your rather selective reliance on dictionaries only when they support your case? No. My response to NeptuneTitan, in the light of repeated baseless outlandish claims he'd made? Yes. Am I inclined to validate your existence further? Not today. In a contest between you and a curry, you come a poor second.


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Justify what? Your rather selective reliance on dictionaries only when they support your case? No. My response to NeptuneTitan, in the light of repeated baseless outlandish claims he'd made? Yes. Am I inclined to validate your existence further? Not today. In a contest between you and a curry, you come a poor second.


Me calling you a nut is based on fourteen years observing your online behaviour so also justified.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 25, 2018)

kenny g said:


> NeptuneTitan - PM is quite a few things - but I would be surprised if he were a nutkins plant.



Is a "Nutkins plant" something like a walnut tree?


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## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> Me calling you a nut is based on fourteen years observing your online behaviour so also justified.


Yeh you've shown your observation skills above where you demonstrate your inability to count words. Not to mention I haven't been here for fourteen years. Can't say it's a surprise you draw perverse conclusions when you've not been paying attention.


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh you've shown your observation skills above where you demonstrate your inability to count words. Not to mention I haven't been here for fourteen years. Can't say it's a surprise you draw perverse conclusions when you've not been paying attention.


So how long have you been here?


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## pseudonarcissus (Mar 25, 2018)

Could you two take this squabble to its own thread please


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## pseudonarcissus (Mar 25, 2018)

Mr Nutkins’s final (deserved?) indignity, having this on his memorial thread


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## tim (Mar 25, 2018)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Mr Nutkins’s final (deserved?) indignity, having this on his memorial thread



The most important thing about this thread is that it gave an opportunity to some of those abused by Nutkin to expose him and to talk about their experiences. This is Something that actually doesn't seem to have happened elsewhere online.  By and large this vile man is still lauded.


Those bemused by recent posts should go back to the earlier posts of Louloubelle and those other victims who responded to her by telling their stories.


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## maomao (Mar 25, 2018)

I've already reported one of my posts and asked for the silly argument to be removed. It feels very disrespectful to the posters on this thread and I apologise.


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## pseudonarcissus (Mar 25, 2018)

tim said:


> The most important thing about this thread is that it gave an opportunity to some of those abused by Nutkin to expose him and to talk about their experiences. This is Something that actually doesn't seem to have happened elsewhere online.  By and large this vile man is still lauded.
> 
> 
> Those bemused by recent posts should go back to the earlier posts of Louloubelle and those other victims who responded to her by telling their stories.


Absolutely, it appears that this thread is one of the first places victims are likely to come for support. Frustrations with other posters can build over years, this just isn’t the type of thread to vent them. The trigger was a post about a trilogy of books that is either very mild literary spamming, or someone dealing with abuse (emotional and animal) semi-anonymously through books.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2018)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Absolutely, it appears that this thread is one of the first places victims are likely to come for support. Frustrations with other posters can build over years, this just isn’t the type of thread to vent them. The trigger was a post about a trilogy of books that is either very mild literary spamming, or someone dealing with abuse (emotional and animal) semi-anonymously through books.


information about the trilogy freely available e.g. here About The Perfect Pair Dolphin Trilogy Books but it doesn't seem to be being talked about as much as was suggested.


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## pseudonarcissus (Mar 26, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> information about the trilogy freely available .. it doesn't seem to be being talked about as much as was suggested.



I confess I haven't rushed out to purchase it.  If it helps bring an end to captive dolphins and whales all to the good.


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## justin credible (Mar 26, 2018)

I think that Neptune Titan has probably got a load of important and relevant information about Nutkins but, possibly due to being traumatised? he is coming across as rather paranoid.  Accusing Pickmans of being a Nutkins plant is just insane.

I have met Pickmans, years ago before I reported Nutkins fo the police.  If Pickmans is a Nutkins plant he would have to have secretly stalked me for years possibly before I even realised that Nutkins was a BBC TV presenter.  Either that or he found a way to traverse the space-time continuum.  It makes no sense at all.

Experiencing abuse and / or witnessing abuse (Neptune Titan was obviously very close to dolphins he witnessed being abused by TN) and experiencing institutionalised abuses, cruelty and coverups  - all of which he will have experienced over a protracted period if my experience of Terry is anything to go by - can leave people feeling very untrusting, naturally.

I saw Terry hitting dolphins with a long whip / stick thing and calling them "cunts" and I only saw it a few times and, even if Terry hadn't molested me I would have felt very disturbed by it.  I can only imagine what Neptune Titan experienced and how it affected him

Neptune Titan, I think you have valuable insights to contribute here, but I really think you need to step away for a bit and think about what you want to do.

Take care of yourself


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## justin credible (Jan 19, 2019)

I do not wish to post links as I do not want to give them publicity but for some time various conspiraloons who promote David Icke and conspiracy theories about chemtrails, lizards, satanic ritual abuse, the usual bullshit have been quoting my posts here about Nutkins and weaving them into their insane narratives. 

Today I was alerted to the fact that a deeply unpleasant bully and conspiracy theorist had not only quoted my words but was reading them out in one of her nasty videos claiming that Nutkins and Gavin Maxwell were in MI5.  

I just wanted to say that, having already been violated by Nutkins, I experience this appropriation of a deeply traumatic time in my life as a further traumatising violation.  

So many of these so called "anti-child abuse activists" are in fact just horrible people who do not care about the harm they cause to survivors when they appropriate our narratives.  Many of them are associated with far-right groups such as the DFLA and they can fuck right off basically.


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## Mary Lou (Mar 29, 2021)

Louloubelle said:


> I am gutted by this news as it means I will never get my day in court with the sleazy bastard.
> 
> I met Nutkins when I was 14 or 15 years old and was working at what was then called Woburn Wild Animal Kingdom during the school holidays.  Loads of kids from Dunstable had weekend jobs working at Woburn and a large coach used to pick us all up from Dunstable town centre and take us to Woburn for the day.
> 
> ...


LouLouBelle are you on Facebook better still I will give you my contact details please contact me I worked at Woburn  dolphinarium in the late 1970s my Email address is rebeccaryan63@yahoo.com ..i cant talk on here


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## Mary Lou (Mar 29, 2021)

Old fossil said:


> A friend of mine put me onto this thread because I had told her of my experience with Terry Nutkins, prior to his death. I was not quite 'chicken' and the time being 20 and 20+ and I too didn't tell my boyfriend as he had a ferocious temper. My first experience was pre-Woburn and maybe because I was that bit older, I wasn't as traumatised by it or maybe because, despite it being a serious sexual assault, I never sensed a real threat. Later, when I was older and no longer with my boyfriend, his occasional 'attentions' were never as serious as the first one, maybe because he sensed I was a strong person who might do something about it - and he was in his second marriage by then, he had something to lose and I just regarded them as a tedious nuisance.
> I obviously knew Terry Nutkins more closely and for longer than the people writing these posts and what I found most unpalatable about him was not his lewdness or occasional physical assaults, but his sadistic streak e.g. he loved stirring up trouble between people. In the balance of fairness, I have to say he could sometimes be very nice e.g. he once really upset me with what was an innocent comment that touched a sensitive nerve in my psyche and was very contrite and comforting. Don't get me wrong, I'm not making any excuses for him, he was a sleaze bag but as I've said to another person, I think he was a deeply damaged person himself who I suspect was simply perpetuating damage visited upon him in his very young years. It was only recently I discovered that he was only 11 when he went to live with the homosexual Gavin Maxwell, I'd thought, maybe from what he told me, that he was in his teens 14 or 15 which, in those days, was school leaving age.
> When I first met Terry Nutkins, his first wife, a very beautiful woman, had just left him and he was in such a state that one occasion when he was drunk, he vomited blood.
> One person here said they regard him as a sexual predator and manipulative which I think is probably an accurate assessment but I think that, as has often been said of such people, the real motive is not sex, but power. It is interesting to note that when I was 30 and confident of handling myself (and knowing that as a married man again, now he would not want trouble), out of interest I responded to his latest mauling by saying 'O.K. next time I see you I'll go to bed with you'. That was the last time I saw him, he lost interest in me which, as far as I'm concerned, confirms my feeling that he was basically on a power trip.
> Finally, to the girl who felt she was thrown in the dolphin pool fully clothed as punishment, take heart, that was standard initiation in the dolphinariums and when the trainer at another dolphinarium said he was going to throw me in, I said he'd go with me. When the time came, he picked me up, carried me to the pool edge and dropped me but I clung on. As I went down I heard a ripping sound - his T-shirt, and then a splash as he came in on top of me. On one occasion after the last show, ALL the staff threw each other in the pool fully clothed so that the departing audience thought it was part of the show and started to sit down again!


who are you I worked at Brighton Flamingo land and Woburn Dolphinarium in the 70s and 80s as a dolphin trainer /presenter to gain my equity card have our paths crossed


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## Mary Lou (Mar 29, 2021)

Old Fossil 

who are you I worked at Brighton dolphinarium  Flamingo land and Woburn Dolphinarium in the 70s and 80s as a dolphin trainer /presenter to gain my equity card have our paths crossed


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## bmd (Mar 29, 2021)

Mary Lou you need to put an @ symbol in front of a name to gain their attention. So your post quoting Old Fossil will have sent them an alert but your second one won't.


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## krtek a houby (Mar 29, 2021)

bmd said:


> Mary Lou you need to put an @ symbol in front of a name to gain their attention. So your post quoting Old Fossil will have sent them an alert but your second one won't.



Probably won't see the alert anyway, as they haven't been here in 9 years


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## bmd (Mar 29, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> Probably won't see the alert anyway, as they haven't been here in 9 years



In other news, there's a Brighton Flamingoland?! I lived very close to the OG Flamingoland. I have to say that the name evokes visions of flying over a lake, Flamingos as far as the eyes can see.


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