# Rebuilding of Blackfriars Thameslink station...end in sight?



## teuchter (Dec 7, 2011)

Good news - the south bank entrance to Blackfriars station is now open.

http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/news/news_items/view/120



> The countdown to completion starts today as the first passengers use a new station entrance on the south bank of the River Thames. This will be followed by a new station entrance on the north bank on 12 December, with the first ever 12-car trains on the Thameslink route calling at Blackfriars on the same date. A new look London Underground station will open in February 2012, followed by a further two new national rail platforms in May.





> Countdown to completion at Blackfriars
> - Spring 2009: Work to restore and widen the eastern side of Blackfriars rail bridge begins
> - January 2010: Tracks switched to the eastern side of the bridge to allow work to begin on the west, while trains continue running
> - October 2011: Work begins to install 4,400 solar panels on the roof of Blackfriars, creating London's largest solar array
> ...


They are running a test 12-car train along the route today (Wednesday).

Are we to understand that after "summer" 2012 trains will run through central London on weekends again, and we will get back later trains at night on the Sutton/Wimbledon loop again? The website seems a bit cagey about that.


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## quimcunx (Dec 7, 2011)

Oh.  There is a particular reason why trains from bastarding Sutton finish so early?


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## teuchter (Dec 7, 2011)

Yes.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 7, 2011)

Well, the tube station might be open in time for the Olympics, anyway.


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## quimcunx (Dec 7, 2011)

I had presumed it was just general thing to make my life just that little bit more inconvenient.

Have you been to visit yet?


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## teuchter (Dec 7, 2011)

No, but I will soon. I would like to check whether it allows me to now get from my front door to the Tate in under 15 mins. If so, the project can be judged a success.


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## Crispy (Dec 7, 2011)

Q: Can you use the station as a footbridge?
A: Yes, if you hold a season ticket or travelcard on your oyster. If you only have PAYG, you will get get charged for entering and exiting the station.


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## London_Calling (Dec 7, 2011)

Just how many Olympic events are there gong to be at Blackfriars, or is the timing to ensure the multitude of Blackfriars residents can get back and forth from elsewhere...

Otherwise: epic development. And kind of an extra station as well now.


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## cybertect (Dec 7, 2011)

The London SE1 Community website had a piece about the opening on Monday

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/5705


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## clicker (Dec 8, 2011)

Does this mean we can walk along the south bank now without diverting out onto the street near the municipal greenery?


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## teuchter (Dec 8, 2011)

clicker said:


> Does this mean we can walk along the south bank now without diverting out onto the street near the municipal greenery?



I hope so


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## ska invita (Dec 8, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Q: Can you use the station as a footbridge?
> A: Yes, if you hold a season ticket or travelcard on your oyster. If you only have PAYG, you will get get charged for entering and exiting the station.


You can walk across Blackfriars bridge for free though


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## teuchter (Dec 8, 2011)

Or the unwobbly bridge.


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## cybertect (Dec 8, 2011)

clicker said:


> Does this mean we can walk along the south bank now without diverting out onto the street near the municipal greenery?



Yep, according to the SE1 article, the Thames Path reopened on Monday morning too.


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## London_Calling (Dec 8, 2011)

So I'm estimating that the platforms on Crossrail - 10 carriages but built for 12 i.e. 240 metres long - will be about the length of Blackfriars Bridge - whatyathunk?


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## lang rabbie (Dec 8, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> So I'm estimating that the platforms on Crossrail - 10 carriages but built for 12 i.e. 240 metres long - will be about the length of Blackfriars Bridge - whatyathunk?






			
				Herring JH. Thames Bridges from London to Hampton Court said:
			
		

> *The present or New Blackfriars Bridge was commenced in the* *year 1862 from designs of Mr. Joseph Cubitt. The entire work was completed and the* *bridge publicly opened by Her Majesty in November, 1869. The style of architecture -- **termed Venetian-Gothic -- well suits the object of the design, which consists of five arches* *constructed principally of iron resting upon granite piers, the centre arch with a span of* *185 feet, those immediately on either side being 175 feet, and the two end or abutment* *arches 155 feet; the centre piers are 20 feet 6 inches wide, and the other two 18 feet each;* *making a total length from shore to shore of 923 feet. *



As the railway bridge was required to align exactly with the new road bridge it must also be 923 feet = * 281.3304 metres* (give or take an inch!) over the river - and there is also a bit of viaduct from Queen Victoria Street through to the northern bridge abutment.


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## clicker (Dec 8, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Yep, according to the SE1 article, the Thames Path reopened on Monday morning too.



thank gawd for that....my favourite London stroll was blighted by having to divert...all in a good cause but it seemed to go on forever....just as you walked through the subway bit with the river history sketched on the walls, and the strains of a lonesome sax would fill the night air, you'd have to hot foot it up the sodding stairs, walk over that flowerbed effort, get hit by a truck reversing down the back alley, then walk through a brown faceless concrete monstrosity of a building to head back to the river....and onward.


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## bromley (Dec 9, 2011)

Is this new underground station called Blackfriars?


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## Crispy (Dec 9, 2011)

What new underground station?


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## London_Calling (Dec 9, 2011)

lang rabbie said:


> As the railway bridge was required to align exactly with the new road bridge it must also be 923 feet = * 281.3304 metres* (give or take an inch!) over the river - and there is also a bit of viaduct from Queen Victoria Street through to the northern bridge abutment.


Cheers. Seems like the better guide would be the part of the bridge that is actually above water. It must mean the active platforms at Blackfriars also extend the full width of the river.


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## bromley (Dec 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> What new underground station?





> 26 February 2012: New London Underground station opens



Perhaps by new they mean refurbished?


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## London_Calling (Dec 9, 2011)

Perhaps 'improved':



> The Tube is back at Blackfriars in February after the improvements above, restoring the link with the District and Circle lines that closed in March 2009. After extensive improvements, there will be step-free access throughout, a larger ticket hall, with new and improved access through lifts and escalators to widened platforms.
> 
> Work's been progressing as you can see from this shot taken when the new platforms were first revealed in early October.








http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/cms/pages/view/68


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## London_Calling (Dec 9, 2011)

bromley said:


> Is this new underground station called Blackfriars?


Maybe they're conflating the tube with the 'new' Thamslink entance on the south side of Blackfriars Bridge. Some like to call it a new station but it looks like a new entrance to me  Albeit a pretty significant new entrance for those exiting south.


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## teuchter (Dec 9, 2011)

So, when are we going to get our late night and weekend Thameslink services back in south London?

All the website says is that the current situation will continue "into 2012".


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## Crispy (Dec 9, 2011)

Fingers crossed it'll be in the May timetable update.


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## teuchter (Feb 16, 2012)

So, it seems confirmed that the full service on the Wimbledon/Sutton loop will resume from the 19th May (or very soon after).

I'm looking forward to having late night/weekend services back.

Can anyone remember how late the service used to run in the evenings? I can't find any information on this.

They'd better not try and sneakily "resume" a service that is not as good as what used to run. Letters will be written.


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## Crispy (Feb 16, 2012)

Enjoy it while it lasts. When the London Bridge upgrade is complete in 2018, all Sutton loop trains will terminate at Blackfriars. No Thameslink for you!


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## quimcunx (Feb 16, 2012)

clicker said:


> thank gawd for that....my favourite London stroll was blighted by having to divert...all in a good cause but it seemed to go on forever....just as you walked through the subway bit with the river history sketched on the walls, and the strains of a lonesome sax would fill the night air, you'd have to hot foot it up the sodding stairs, walk over that flowerbed effort, get hit by a truck reversing down the back alley, then walk through a brown faceless concrete monstrosity of a building to head back to the river....and onward.


 
Which is what I had to do this Saturday just past.


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## clicker (Feb 16, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Which is what I had to do this Saturday just past.


 
I was up there Monday evening this week and it was open at about 9 pm -ish........but i think i half saw a sign saying it would still be closed at 10.30pm-ish for a while....i may have imagined it, was so euphoric at being able to walk without the sodding divert and buoyed on extortionately priced lager fro the Royal Festival Hall


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## teuchter (Feb 16, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Enjoy it while it lasts. When the London Bridge upgrade is complete in 2018, all Sutton loop trains will terminate at Blackfriars. No Thameslink for you!


 
I know, but I don't think it'll be that bad really - the trains through the central bit will be so frequent, every 2 or 3 minutes at peak time, that you'll not have to wait long to change trains at Blackfriars.

And the trains on the Sutton Loop will hopefully be less prone to delays and cancellations caused by things happening on the main Thameslink route.


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## hipipol (Feb 16, 2012)

Those using the Catford Loop will return to being even shiter than they are now as soon as the terminal plats are finished!!!!


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## Bungle73 (Feb 16, 2012)

My info is that those services will still run through the core as they do now.


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## se5 (Feb 16, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I know, but I don't think it'll be that bad really - the trains through the central bit will be so frequent, every 2 or 3 minutes at peak time, that you'll not have to wait long to change trains at Blackfriars.
> 
> And the trains on the Sutton Loop will hopefully be less prone to delays and cancellations caused by things happening on the main Thameslink route.


 
Do you know what will be happening to the Southern trains from places like Denmark Hill - will they go back to starting/finishing at Blackfriars or will they continue to run through?


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## Bungle73 (Feb 16, 2012)

se5 said:


> Do you know what will be happening to the Southern trains from places like Denmark Hill - will they go back to starting/finishing at Blackfriars or will they continue to run through?


There aren't any Southern services that run through Blackfriars.


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## se5 (Feb 16, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> There aren't any Southern services that run through Blackfriars.


 
Good point - sorry got confused - they are Southeastern trains originating in places like Sevenoaks and Dartford, they currently run from Denmark Hill to St Pancras after previously terminating at Blackfriars


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## Crispy (Feb 16, 2012)

se5 said:


> Good point - sorry got confused - they are Southeastern trains originating in places like Sevenoaks and Dartford, they currently run from Denmark Hill to St Pancras after previously terminating at Blackfriars


Sevenoaks services will go through the tunnel, because they approach Blackfriars on the Eastern tracks - formerly the terminating ones, but now the through ones.


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## teuchter (Feb 17, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> There aren't any Southern services that run through Blackfriars.


Although, in a couple of years, the Southern and Thameslink franchises will be merged into one. I think also eating up the southeastern services that currently run through Blackfriars.


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## davesgcr (Feb 17, 2012)

Options for the Sutton loop will no doubt continue to be debated for a while yet .....


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## MAD-T-REX (Feb 21, 2012)

teuchter said:


> So, it seems confirmed that the full service on the Wimbledon/Sutton loop will resume from the 19th May (or very soon after).
> 
> I'm looking forward to having late night/weekend services back.
> 
> Can anyone remember how late the service used to run in the evenings? I can't find any information on this.


Open Train Times has the new timetable. The last southbound loop trains on Mon-Fri and Sat call at Blackfriars at 23:46. The Sun service isn't as good - Blackfriars at 21:14.

You can browse the full listings for Herne Hill here (use the URL to change the station code, time and date). I'd recommend looking from 28 May onwards as the proper Sunday loop service isn't starting until 27 May for some reason.



davesgcr said:


> Options for the Sutton loop will no doubt continue to be debated for a while yet .....


It's hard to know what will happen with the loop after 2018. The physical route will obviously be within the FCC/Southern mega franchise, but whether the loop continues to exist as part of the Thameslink service (and get the new trains) or at all is another question. It's a relatively recent invention and faster services to central London are available from several of the stations on the route; the loss of service through the City may make it a bit pointless.

An RUS (can't find the exact one at the minute) recommends making the loop start at Blackfriars and end at London Bridge. This will be a bit rubbish for E&C, Loughborough J and Herne Hill passengers as the trains towards London Bridge will travel east from Tulse Hill, reducing the number of northbound trains per hour at their stations. But this plan is tentative - it all depends on how much capacity, if any, London Bridge has after its redevelopment.

Longer term, my understanding is that Network Rail wants to reconsider how South London metro services are provided after the new Thameslink service has had a chance to settle in. London Overground could end up running the services (such as the loop) that are contained entirely inside London.


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## Crispy (Feb 21, 2012)

Damarr said:


> London Overground could end up running the services (such as the loop) that are contained entirely inside London.


Sounds nice. But I get the feeling that expansion of the Overground brand like this isn't really going to provide a proper metro service while the routes remain shared with other services. South London's rail network does dual duty as metro and long-distance routes, which hampers both. Segregation of routes is damn near impossible too


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## MAD-T-REX (Feb 21, 2012)

Aye, it'd be a change in name only. The loop is a mess of junctions and outdated signalling that can't take any more trains.

Network Rail is planning a total segregation of the lines at Herne Hill by using a fly-over (the land north of the station has been safeguarded, although it won't be done before 2020), but that's mainly for the benefit of longer-distance trains to/from Victoria that pass through Herne Hill without stopping. There is no real interest in increasing capacity on the purely suburban routes.


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## teuchter (Feb 21, 2012)

Damarr said:


> An RUS (can't find the exact one at the minute) recommends making the loop start at Blackfriars and end at London Bridge. This will be a bit rubbish for E&C, Loughborough J and Herne Hill passengers as the trains towards London Bridge will travel east from Tulse Hill, reducing the number of northbound trains per hour at their stations. But this plan is tentative - it all depends on how much capacity, if any, London Bridge has after its redevelopment.


 
Yes, I've seen this as well and it's not an option I'd be keen on, if it meant a reduced frequency of service at the stations you mention.

The loop isn't just useful as a means of getting into the city - the interchanges at E&C (and now again at Blackfriars) are a useful link to the underground, and a reduction of the number of trains calling at these places would surely disadvantage people at any point on the loop (not just HH/LJ/E&C).

I don't think there's an argument that the loop service becomes pointless as a result of no longer having direct trains through the core.


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## Crispy (Feb 21, 2012)

Damarr said:


> Aye, it'd be a change in name only. The loop is a mess of junctions and outdated signalling that can't take any more trains.
> 
> Network Rail is planning a total segregation of the lines at Herne Hill by using a fly-over (the land north of the station has been safeguarded, although it won't be done before 2020), but that's mainly for the benefit of longer-distance trains to/from Victoria that pass through Herne Hill without stopping. There is no real interest in increasing capacity on the purely suburban routes.


Ah, I'd heard of this, but thought the station would continue having platforms for all services. That would have been "tricky". Of course, having a _bypass_ flyover makes things much easier, but is less flexible. 

Legions of  railway enthusiasts have pored over the South London rail network, but it just can't be untangled without some serious engineering (flyovers at multiple junctions, or tunnels for the express trains)


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## MAD-T-REX (Feb 21, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Ah, I'd heard of this, but thought the station would continue having platforms for all services. That would have been "tricky". Of course, having a _bypass_ flyover makes things much easier, but is less flexible.


The exact form of the grade-separation hasn't been decided yet (or at least hasn't been published). It could be a simple flyover that costs HH services to Victoria, but I think Network Rail has bigger plans for the station. HH is on their short list of stations that will eventually need congestion easing works (which wouldn't be a problem if Victoria trains were lost), and the RUS recommending the grade-separation says the removal of the northern junction will allow for 12-car trains to serve the station. As there is no intention of ever running 12-car trains on the loop (it's apparently impossible to extend Tulse Hill), they must be thinking of the many 12-car Southeastern services that pass HH because they can't stop. The all-singing, all-dancing option is a new station with 12-car platforms at both high and low levels, which would become a major interchange (hence the need for congestion easing). It'd also stop Southeastern passengers going bananas during the planning, as HH is their only interchange with Thameslink.


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## lang rabbie (Feb 21, 2012)

Irony of ironies!

Somewhere I still have the "Common Exhibits" that Railtrack submitted to the Thameslink public enquiry back in 2000 with their "purely hypothetical" maps of a Herne Hill toTulse Hill dive-under and fly-over option to demonstrate why it wasn't technically feasible to route all the Thameslink trains by that route.


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## teuchter (May 15, 2012)

Restoration of full service through the core from this Saturday onwards!

And then the following Saturday, the weekend/evening exile on the Wimbledon loop finally ends. Good news for the burghers of Loughborough Junction, Herne Hill and Tulse Hill.

Details

New timetable


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## Crispy (May 15, 2012)

Hurrah!

Now, let's see, does this affect my commute when I'm not on my bike...

ETA: Nope.


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## MAD-T-REX (May 15, 2012)

The new timetable is good, although I have one complaint: the overnight trains between Bedford and Three Bridges, which serve the airports, look as though they will be routed via Herne Hill (they go St Pancras -> Blackfriars -> East Croydon; London Bridge is presumably closed overnight for rebuilding work) but don't call at HH.

I avoid missing the last train from Camden, Angel, etc, because taking multiple night buses is a pain in the ass. A direct overnight train from St. P to HH would be dead handy, but I imagine FCC don't want the trains to be used to shuttle drunks between north and south London or deal with the complaints they would get when the trains were diverted back to London Bridge in 2018.

Edit: Also, on the wider topic of Thameslink south of the river, I have heard from someone working in the industry that the grade separation of Herne Hill isn't on any internal timescales this side of 2030. This is backed up by the 2011 RUS totally ignoring grade separation and instead talking about using higher capacity trains (like the London Overground's) and using the slots freed up by the peak Brighton trains going via London Bridge instead of HH from 2018 for more local services. A proper metro service on the poor old loop is decades away yet, which is a real shame as the current level of service doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to allow for the reopening of Camberwell or Walworth Road.


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## ringo (May 15, 2012)

Great news, and only took 4 years!


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## teuchter (May 15, 2012)

Damarr said:


> The new timetable is good, although I have one complaint: the overnight trains between Bedford and Three Bridges, which serve the airports, look as though they will be routed via Herne Hill (they go St Pancras -> Blackfriars -> East Croydon; London Bridge is presumably closed overnight for rebuilding work) but don't call at HH.
> 
> I avoid missing the last train from Camden, Angel, etc, because taking multiple night buses is a pain in the ass. A direct overnight train from St. P to HH would be dead handy, but I imagine FCC don't want the trains to be used to shuttle drunks between north and south London or deal with the complaints they would get when the trains were diverted back to London Bridge in 2018.


 
It would be great. Even better if it stopped at LJ too.

I can see why they wouldn't want to shuttle drunks, but if LU have to do it then doesn't seem unreasonable to ask FCC to do it for an area badly served by the underground. Even if it was only until 12.30/1am rather than all night.


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## MAD-T-REX (May 15, 2012)

I might be a right saddo and write in to FCC. HH station is already manned 24/7 and it's reasonably well served by night buses to all of the neighbouring areas, so dealing with the passengers wouldn't be a great hardship for them or TfL.

Your suggestion about not necessarily running all night is a good one. All of HH's pubs are closed by 2am (except the clubs on the Norwood Road) and the area turns quiet very quickly; aside from drunks coming off trains disturbing residents, it probably wouldn't be safe to have passengers arriving at a deserted train station and trying to find the right night bus on empty streets at 4am (not that HH is dangerous, but train companies are paranoid about that sort of thing). I think I'll suggest that the 01:05 and 02:05 from Blackfriars stop at HH from Thurs to Sat, when they are likely to be heavily used.


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## teuchter (May 15, 2012)

Damarr said:


> I might be a right saddo and write in to FCC. HH station is already manned 24/7 and it's reasonably well served by night buses to all of the neighbouring areas, so dealing with the passengers wouldn't be a great hardship for them or TfL.
> 
> Your suggestion about not necessarily running all night is a good one. All of HH's pubs are closed by 2am (except the clubs on the Norwood Road) and the area turns quiet very quickly; aside from drunks coming off trains disturbing residents, it probably wouldn't be safe to have passengers arriving at a deserted train station and trying to find the right night bus on empty streets at 4am (not that HH is dangerous, but train companies are paranoid about that sort of thing). I think I'll suggest that the 01:05 and 02:05 from Blackfriars stop at HH from Thurs to Sat, when they are likely to be heavily used.


I'd be happy to do the same! Let me know if I can be of help. I can write a letter too, at the least.


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## MAD-T-REX (May 16, 2012)

I fired this off to customer.relations.fcc@firstgroup.com. I kept the tone informal since I'm asking them to do me a favour and not intending to mount any sort of campaign:


> I have a suggested service change that I believe would be very useful to your customers in south London and cause minimal inconvenience to yourselves. Could you please forward this email to the appropriate department?
> 
> I see in the timetable for May-December 2012 (http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk/static/timetables/timetable/FC1205_TL_BOOK.pdf) that the last service to Herne Hill from central London from Mon-Sat will be the 23:46 from Blackfriars (p.108). The later overnight services from Bedford to Three Bridges will apparently run via Herne Hill (calling at St. Pancras, Blackfriars and then East Croydon) but will not stop there (p.86).
> 
> ...


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## 5t3IIa (May 16, 2012)

I'll just mention that Blackfriars tube (District and Circle lines) smells of bacon every morning.


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## London_Calling (May 16, 2012)

I know this cost around £1 billion, but Farringdon's the one I'm looking forward to - what a job that is!


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## Crispy (May 16, 2012)

There's not much more work to do at Farringdon. Spit and polish around the edges, a lick of paint on the old bit of the station. The heavy lifting is all done. Of course the Crossrail station will be under construction around and beneath the Thameslink one, but that won't be noticeable from inside the station until they take the hoarding down.


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## London_Calling (May 16, 2012)

But what a project for one of the oldest stations - Thameslink meets Crossrail meets tube. Huge new entrances/exits...


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## teuchter (May 16, 2012)

Very impressive from an engineering point of view but I find the new bit at Farringdon a little bland. It all feels like a bit like the lobby of some kind of corporate offices.


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## teuchter (May 16, 2012)

Also, the roof at Blackfriars is rather clunky, which is a shame considering what it could have been like with some more accomplished detailing.


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## Crispy (May 16, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Also, the roof at Blackfriars is rather clunky, which is a shame considering what it could have been like with some more accomplished detailing.


Very much agree. If that roof shape had been given 6 months in Rogers or Grimshaws office to design all the steel, it would be superb.


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## lang rabbie (May 16, 2012)

Not only is the roof detailing plug ugly, but the way they are going about creating a false inner "ceiling" below each roof slope to hide the mess of the steelwork seems almost designed to hide potential corrosion locations that will need to all be expensively stripped out, checked and reinstated thirty years hence.

Surely an exposed "high tech" solution would have had a lower overall life cycle cost - although I suspect the time horizon on which they planned this project probably didn't look that far ahead!


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## teuchter (May 17, 2012)

It's just a waste of material apart from anything else. Building a steel structure and then using seemingly the same amount of material again to hide it all. Do the structure well and then you don't need to hide it! Lazy design, or perhaps more likely, not enough budget allocated to the design phase.

There would be some excuse for a false ceiling if it was insulated, but as far as I know it isn't; presumably it's an unheated space.


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## Crispy (May 23, 2012)

LRC have a detailed article: http://www.londonreconnections.com/2012/london-terminals-blackfriars/
The engineering of the bridge extensions is much more impressive than the architecture of the new roof.


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## MAD-T-REX (May 23, 2012)

There was a public exhibition yesterday on the redevelopment of Ludgate and Sampson Houses, the buildings on the southbank on either side of the tracks. I couldn't make it, but the details will be of interest (whenever they're published) as the future expansion of the station will depend on whether National Rail has safeguarded any land for additional track(s); a third bay platform would certainly be useful if they ever start running metro-frequency services into them.


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## Crispy (May 23, 2012)

Damarr said:


> There was a public exhibition yesterday on the redevelopment of Ludgate and Sampson Houses, the buildings on the southbank on either side of the tracks. I couldn't make it, but the details will be of interest (whenever they're published) as the future expansion of the station will depend on whether National Rail has safeguarded any land for additional track(s); a third bay platform would certainly be useful if they ever start running metro-frequency services into them.


You read skyscrapercity too, don't you 

On that note, the roof design of the new station doesn't lend itself particularly well to extension, especially just for opening the East face of the platform to a new track. The "tacked-on" part would be very obvious.


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## teuchter (Jul 12, 2012)

They are working like crazy at Blackfriars at the moment, presumably to get it done before Jubilympicgeddon. I don't envy whoever's got the job of making that happen.


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## teuchter (Jul 24, 2012)

Has anyone else noticed that the new glazing in Blackfriars station roof seems to project little rainbow spectra when the sun is shining?



Is it just accidental that it seems to match the thameslink programme branding a bit?


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## teuchter (Jul 25, 2012)

Oh and also... the Loughborough Junction Action Group were out today protesting against the plans to terminate Sutton loop trains at Blackfriars...


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## quimcunx (Jul 25, 2012)

Are you the one in the middle with the yellowy brown tie?


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## r0bb0 (Jul 25, 2012)

now with a permanent artwork that I rather like




http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/6202


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## Stanley Edwards (Jul 25, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the new glazing in Blackfriars station roof seems to project little rainbow spectra when the sun is shining?


 
It will attract the wrong sort.


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## teuchter (Jul 25, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Are you the one in the middle with the yellowy brown tie?


Your mum is the one in the middle with the yellowy brown tie.


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## hipipol (Jul 25, 2012)

I rather hope the do get the sutton stuff to stop at Blackfriars, we Catford Loopies MIGHT just get higher rate of stopping trains


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## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Oh and also... the Loughborough Junction Action Group were out today protesting against the plans to terminate Sutton loop trains at Blackfriars...


i don't think that's a representative group of loughborough junction residents.


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## Crispy (Jul 25, 2012)

The Sutton trains will never go through the tunnel, as it would cause more of the same congestion that the rebuild was designed to fix. With the loop now segregated, frequency and capacity can be increased, just at the expense of through services.

They should have made the tunnel 4-track when it was re-opened in the 80s. Nearly all of the route was already wide enough.


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## teuchter (Jul 25, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't think that's a representative group of loughborough junction residents.


Your perceptiveness never ceases to amaze


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## Pickman's model (Jul 25, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Your perceptiveness never ceases to amaze


not cutting try harder


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## discplayer (Jul 26, 2012)

Many might be LJ people. The two characters in the middle are Sutton borough's MPs.


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## lang rabbie (Jul 26, 2012)

It does appear to be cross party - I think I can spot two Lambeth Labour councillors in that photo but I won't name them until I've had a chance to check the picture again while stone cold sober.


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## scanner (Jul 29, 2012)

Used my Freedom pass to walk across the river via the new Blackfriars station, interesting. A bit off topic but can someone tell me what the track construction work alongside St Johns station is for? A lot of earth work going on there.


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## davesgcr (Jul 29, 2012)

scanner said:


> Used my Freedom pass to walk across the river via the new Blackfriars station, interesting. A bit off topic but can someone tell me what the track construction work alongside St Johns station is for? A lot of earth work going on there.


 
Doubling the track from Lewisham Vale Junction to ease the flow towards L Bridge and the new grade seperation in the Bermondsey area. Trust me , its needed.


----------



## davesgcr (Jul 29, 2012)

Crispy said:


> The Sutton trains will never go through the tunnel, as it would cause more of the same congestion that the rebuild was designed to fix. With the loop now segregated, frequency and capacity can be increased, just at the expense of through services.
> 
> They should have made the tunnel 4-track when it was re-opened in the 80s. Nearly all of the route was already wide enough.


 
We were very lucky the old GLC and Network South East had the vision at the time - (and put some
money in when "trains were not sexy compared to the blessed Margarets Great Road economy ") - I don't think it was really possible even then , and no one wished to lose the project over being too ambitious. No chance now , with all the city development that has happened since.


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## Bungle73 (Jul 29, 2012)

What would the point of making the track in the tunnel quadruple when the track through Blackfriars is only double, and there's definitely no room for more than double at Farringdon?


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## davesgcr (Jul 30, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> What would the point of making the track in the tunnel quadruple when the track through Blackfriars is only double, and there's definitely no room for more than double at Farringdon?


 
Spot on ! - the pinch point (when the full TLK service is "in") are the crossing movements to and from the London Bridge lines , towards Metropolitan Junction / Borough Market , - and the Elephant and Castle lines.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 30, 2012)

What was I smoking?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 30, 2012)

Services on the Sutton loop are so often screwed up as a result of problems elsewhere on the Thameslink route that I think I'll be happy to accept better reliability in exchange for losing the through services, nice as they are. That's assuming that services on the core route run at a high frequency so that the wait at Blackfriars is never too long of course.

I would like the other two platforms at Loughborough Junction reopened so that services heading for Denmark Hill can stop there too. I guess that's overly wishful thinking though.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 30, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I would like the other two platforms at Loughborough Junction reopened so that services heading for Denmark Hill can stop there too. I guess that's overly wishful thinking though.


 
I think re-opening Camberwell and Walworth Road (on the Loop tracks only) is more likely.
With the loop being segregated, I think there's a strong argument for running it as a metro under the Overground brand.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 30, 2012)

Is there any more to that argument than that orange looks nice on maps?

The core Thameslink route should be on underground maps if you ask me. A surprising number of people seem oblivious to its existence.


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## Crispy (Jul 30, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Is there any more to that argument than that orange looks nice on maps?


 
Sane ticketing, commitment to providing a good service rather than making a profit. And yes, having it on the Underground map.

Agree with you on Thameslink. West Hampstead to Elephant/London Bridge is more regular than many tube lines.


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## teuchter (Jul 30, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Sane ticketing, commitment to providing a good service rather than making a profit.


I don't think this should apply to the Sutton Loop any more than any other part of the London rail network! Or the whole of national rail really.


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## Crispy (Jul 30, 2012)

teuchter said:


> I don't think this should apply to the Sutton Loop any more than any other part of the London rail network! Or the whole of national rail really.


Well yes, that's a good wider point. But more specifically, I want to see a long-term commitment to running London's metro trains as proper metros, while letting the traditional TOCs run the intercities. All dreams, of course.


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## Tankus (Jul 30, 2012)

London_Calling said:


> So I'm estimating that the platforms on Crossrail - 10 carriages but built for 12 i.e. 240 metres long - will be about the length of Blackfriars Bridge - whatyathunk?


 
If they make all the stations long enough ..they can join them together..... and then everyone can walk and not have to wait for a train ...job done ...transport crisis solved


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## davesgcr (Jul 30, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Well yes, that's a good wider point. But more specifically, I want to see a long-term commitment to running London's metro trains as proper metros, while letting the traditional TOCs run the intercities. All dreams, of course.


 
Subject to capacity of course for more metro services !


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## Crispy (Jul 30, 2012)

davesgcr said:


> Subject to capacity of course for more metro services !


Pesky details


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## Bungle73 (Jul 31, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Well yes, that's a good wider point. But more specifically, I want to see a long-term commitment to running London's metro trains as proper metros, while letting the traditional TOCs run the intercities. All dreams, of course.


So you want who running the metro services? And the TOCs running the intercities, so who's running the services which aren't either?


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## ringo (Aug 1, 2012)

We've lost a view. Used to be able to see down to Tower Bridge etc when crossing Blackfriars Bridge, but now you can just see Blackfriars Station


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## davesgcr (Aug 1, 2012)

They havent yet opened up the hoardings etc - patience , the view will come back..


----------



## ringo (Aug 2, 2012)

davesgcr said:


> They havent yet opened up the hoardings etc - patience , the view will come back..


 
Really? Looked a bit solid when I was in the station last week. Good, ta


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## davesgcr (Aug 2, 2012)

I know the Project Engineer , lives by me - will hound him


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## teuchter (Aug 2, 2012)

davesgcr said:


> I know the Project Engineer , lives by me - will hound him


 
Was it supposed to be finished for the Olympics?


----------



## ringo (Aug 3, 2012)

davesgcr said:


> They havent yet opened up the hoardings etc - patience , the view will come back..


 
Had a proper look on the way home, yup, looks like the view will survive


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## davesgcr (Aug 3, 2012)

Operationally , as you can see - finished , lots to do on the station fabric , snagging items etc. Much work slowed down by the Olympic veto on works in the London area.


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## MAD-T-REX (Aug 3, 2012)

teuchter said:


> Services on the Sutton loop are so often screwed up as a result of problems elsewhere on the Thameslink route that I think I'll be happy to accept better reliability in exchange for losing the through services, nice as they are.


This will be a big benefit during rush hour, especially as trains will have a clear run at Blackfriars and never get caught behind London Bridge/Denmark Hill trains, but there isn't a depot on the loop (the first northbound trains of the day are the first southbound ones on their way back). Any overnight problems further north, caused by cold weather or whatever, will still knock out the loop as well.


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## teuchter (Aug 3, 2012)

Damarr said:


> This will be a big benefit during rush hour, especially as trains will have a clear run at Blackfriars and never get caught behind London Bridge/Denmark Hill trains, but there isn't a depot on the loop (the first northbound trains of the day are the first southbound ones on their way back). Any overnight problems further north, caused by cold weather or whatever, will still knock out the loop as well.


 
did you get any reply to your suggestion about late night trains stopping at Herne Hill?


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## MAD-T-REX (Aug 3, 2012)

Ya, it was a generic email with 'We think our timetables through thoroughly, thank you very much, but we've passed your suggestion on anyway. Fuck off. Yours, FCC.' I suppose the December timetable will tell the tale.


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## T & P (Aug 23, 2012)

Bump to remind folks the deadline to register one's opposition to the proposed changes to the Sutton loop is the end of today.


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 25, 2012)

Still got the hoardings up, looking forward to them coming down.

Slightly annoying the train doesnt go from Thamselink after 11pm, find Blackfriars is to far out of the way of any decent tube lines/areas where stuff happens. More annoying though is the service shuts down utterly on a Sunday. That combined with no W&C adds far to much to my journey home


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## Bungle73 (Oct 25, 2012)

Artaxerxes said:


> Still got the hoardings up, looking forward to them coming down.
> 
> Slightly annoying the train doesnt go from Thamselink after 11pm, find Blackfriars is to far out of the way of any decent tube lines/areas where stuff happens. More annoying though is the service shuts down utterly on a Sunday. That combined with no W&C adds far to much to my journey home


What?  Blackfriar's is on the Circle and District lines.  It's also only a five or ten minute walk from City Thameslink.


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## teuchter (Oct 25, 2012)

It runs on Sundays again now (most Sundays anyway).

Agreed that it would be nice to have trains running a bit later in the evenings though.


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 25, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> What? Blackfriar's is on the Circle and District lines. It's also only a five or ten minute walk from City Thameslink.


 
 I just find it a bit of a pain to get to.


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## Winot (Oct 25, 2012)

Artaxerxes said:


> Slightly annoying the train doesnt go from Thamselink after 11pm, find Blackfriars is to far out of the way of any decent tube lines/areas where stuff happens.


 
Are you suggesting they should have moved Blackfriars closer to where stuff happens?


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## Artaxerxes (Oct 25, 2012)

Winot said:


> Are you suggesting they should have moved Blackfriars closer to where stuff happens?


 
No, they should run trains to a decent station linked to Blackfriars


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## Bungle73 (Oct 25, 2012)

Artaxerxes said:


> I just find it a bit of a pain to get to.


I don't get it.  If you're close to City Thameslink then you're close to Blackfriar's.  The stations are practically next to each other.


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## eroom (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm really enjoying the new station. If it's a half-way nice day I get the Thameslink to Blackfriars, get off at the south end and walk along Bankside, over the Millennium Bridge, through St Paul's Churchyard and onto the Central Line.

It adds about ten mins to my commute but it's a magnificent way to start the day.


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## teuchter (Oct 25, 2012)

I have a prediction that there is going to be a higher than average incidence of heart attacks and tripping accidents at Blackfriars. The platforms take 12 carriage trains but when it's just a 4 carriage train (southbound) it stops right down at the south end of the platform. Catches lots of people out who have been waiting at the north end who then leg it down the platform. At the weekend a large american guy got on completely out of breath and looking like he was about to expire. Then he found out he was on the wrong train anyway.


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## davesgcr (Oct 25, 2012)

The cunning plan is for all services to be 8 /12 car trains all day - fair point in this transitional period. Subject of course to HMG authorising the new train fleet,.....


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## teuchter (Jan 22, 2013)

Slightly surprising news - apparently it's been decided that Wimbledon Loop trains will continue to run through the core after all:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-safeguards-future-of-the-wimbledon-loop

So what are the terminating platforms at Blackfriars to be used for now? 

This is of course being presented as a victory for Wimbledon Loop passengers but surely this decision must mean some compromise in some other way?

/off to read railway forums


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## Miss-Shelf (Jan 22, 2013)

I saw this news today
teuchter please report back if you can


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## teuchter (Jan 22, 2013)

From what i can make out, it's something like this:

Trains coming into Blackfriars from the south either come via London Bridge (trains originating from Brighton etc) or via Elephant. Of the ones coming via Elephant, some have come from the Wimbledon Loop and some from other locations via Denmark Hill.

The proposal was that all Wimbledon Loop trains terminate at Blackfriars, while some of the Denmark Hill services and most of the London Bridge services would carry on through the "core".

What has been announced is that the 4 trains per hour coming off the Wimbledon Loop will carry on through the core after all, and this means that some of the Denmark Hill services which were proposed to carry on through the core, now won't, and will terminate in the bay platforms at Blackfriars instead.

So the continuation of the Wimbledon Loop through-London services is at the expense of some of the Denmark Hill services not doing so. Whether this results in a better service for people _generally _(ie not just viewed from the perspective of a Wimbledon Loop user) is up for debate.

It means that the Denmark hill services will have to cross over with the Wimbledon Loop services somewhere between Loughborough Junction and Blackfriars (that is, they are on the right hand side when they join the line just after LJ and have to move to the left hand pair of lines in order to get into the bay platforms at Blackfriars). Part of the logic of the original proposal was to eliminate these conflicting movements which can cause complications in timetabling and when there are delays. It seems to be a matter of opinion whether these conflicts are actually much of an issue.

It doesn't mean the relocation of the bay platforms at Blackfriars has been entirely futile, as it means that trains coming from Elephant and terminating won't have to cross over with the services from London Bridge (which make up the majority of the train movements) as was previously the case.


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## teuchter (Jan 23, 2013)

Anyway, if we are lucky davesgcr will be along at some point to give a more informed explanation.


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## teuchter (Feb 2, 2013)

There's a very good piece on londonreconnections for anyone interested -

http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/thameslink-losing-the-plot-whilst-looping-the-loop/

It's actually more about the decision making process than about the technicalities of the decision itself and I think it makes some very good points.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 13, 2013)

This afternoon some wires came down on the Midland Main Line north of St Pancras, meaning all the Thameslink services are screwed up. Here's how services on the Wimbledon Loop look at the moment:



This is a good example of how problems north of London affect the south London service, and one of the benefits of terminating Wimbledon Loop services at Blackfriars would have been that they would be fairly unaffected by this kind of thing.

As it is, anyone wanting to travel in either direction at present will probably have to wait at least an hour for the next service.


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## Bungle73 (Feb 14, 2013)

Yeah, heard about that at St. Pancras this evening. Luckily I was heading onto a SET HS train.


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## lang rabbie (Feb 14, 2013)

teuchter said:


> This is a good example of how problems north of London affect the south London service, and one of the benefits of terminating Wimbledon Loop services at Blackfriars would have been that they would be fairly unaffected by this kind of thing.


Up to a point ... AFAIK there is no reason imposed by signalling etc. why FCC couldn't have a contingency plan timetable that would allow them to turn around rolling stock south of the thames at Blackfriars.


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## Bungle73 (Feb 14, 2013)

lang rabbie said:


> Up to a point ... AFAIK there is no reason imposed by signalling etc. why FCC couldn't have a contingency plan timetable that would allow them to turn around rolling stock south of the thames at Blackfriars.


Only two tracks open.


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## lang rabbie (Feb 14, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Only two tracks open.


Are the terminating platforms still closed?


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## Bungle73 (Feb 14, 2013)

lang rabbie said:


> Are the terminating platforms still closed?


I think so.  At least there were the last time I was there.


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## teuchter (Feb 14, 2013)

The terminating platforms have been in operation for some time now.


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## teuchter (Feb 14, 2013)

lang rabbie said:


> Up to a point ... AFAIK there is no reason imposed by signalling etc. why FCC couldn't have a contingency plan timetable that would allow them to turn around rolling stock south of the thames at Blackfriars.


Well, I'm sure they do have contingency plans of some kind, and i'm sure this happens to some extent when there are problems already.

I don't know in detail but it wouldn't be as straightforward as you make it sound...it's not like it's some kind of predictable scenario where the problems will be at a certain location and there will be X no. trains south of the disruption, and the drivers' rosters will be at a certain point in the day and so on. Plus as Bungle73 says, there would be issues getting them turned around - even with the terminating platforms, they are supposed to be in use for the SET services and they'd still have to go somewhere.


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## Bungle73 (Feb 15, 2013)

teuchter said:


> The terminating platforms have been in operation for some time now.


Define "some time"?  They were closed last time I was there; admittedly I can't remember exactly when that was but I'm sure it was (fairly) recently.


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## teuchter (Feb 15, 2013)

Not sure, but measured in months rather than weeks. Weren't they already open for the Olympics?


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 29, 2013)

When are they going to finish this properly? It's still a building site on the river side of the transparent barriers, although all they seem to have to work with is paving slabs and timber. Twenty or so blokes are still gainfully employed on something. But what? And why hasn't WHSmiths got any further than sticking up a frontage? Shopfitting shouldn't take longer than a week or so.


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## davesgcr (Jun 29, 2013)

I agree - the job seems to be being drawn out something awful - funnily enough , I was musing over how the old Blackfriars was a real dump - especially on a cold winters evening - however it had a newsagent , a key and shoe repair place, a drycleaners and a few other bits and pieces - and the Tube station had a very decent take away sandwich and roll place on the westbound platform. 

There is precisely zilch at the moment - nice station - but a Siberia Junction (and colder than the old place was ...) 

Write an essay on transport improvements and customer service.? Credit for examples please.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 29, 2013)

There is a sausage-inna-bun stand now, though, microwave proudly on display, which I have not yet braved.


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## lang rabbie (Jun 29, 2013)

All supposed to finally be finished by the end of July, according to this recent article




			
				New Civil Engineer said:
			
		

> The cost of rebuilding the station was originally set at £350M, but this was increased to £600M


 
£600 million quid


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## Maurice Picarda (Jun 29, 2013)

Subscribers only - can you c/p, lang rabbie?


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## teuchter (Jul 2, 2013)

My suspicion, based on no specific evidence and lingering grumpiness about the Olympics, is that the reason it's taking such an age to finish the last bits is that the contractors have been let off the hook on this in exchange for getting things to a certain stage before the Olympics. There was a mad rush leading up to that, with lots of people on site, then everything stopped while the precious games were on, and since, everything's proceeded at lethargic pace.


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## lang rabbie (Jul 2, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Subscribers only - can you c/p, lang rabbie?


 
Try getting in via Google News


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## teuchter (Jul 30, 2013)

lang rabbie said:


> All supposed to finally be finished by the end of July,


 

Still rather unfinished when I went through today....

I noticed by the way that there's actually quite a large area of "unused" bridge deck at the northern end, on the eastern side (ie where the old bay platforms used to terminate). Was wondering what's going to be there...will it be publicly accessible? Looks ripe for a bit of outdoor seating for a Blackfriars station bar with views of the Thames etc.


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## lang rabbie (Aug 1, 2013)

teuchter said:


> Still rather unfinished when I went through today....
> 
> I noticed by the way that there's actually quite a large area of "unused" bridge deck at the northern end, on the eastern side (ie where the old bay platforms used to terminate). Was wondering what's going to be there...will it be publicly accessible? Looks ripe for a bit of outdoor seating for a Blackfriars station bar with views of the Thames etc.


 
I was puzzling about that bit last week.   It's certainly been nicely repaved.


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## James Hatts (Aug 18, 2013)

Yes, the plans is for a restaurant/bar on that space at the north end, I understand. It's accessible without going through the ticket barriers.


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## teuchter (Aug 18, 2013)

Looks like they are finally just about finished now. Except for that bit.


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## Miss-Shelf (Aug 19, 2013)

teuchter said:


> Looks like they are finally just about finished now. Except for that bit.


Yes it was a splendid view when i got the train home today
it may replace my previous favourite view from waterloo bridge


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## teuchter (Aug 19, 2013)

I can't think of any other (urban) station in the UK with a better view from the platforms. Perhaps even in Europe. The world?


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## MAD-T-REX (Aug 24, 2013)

It's a cracking view to be sure. I also like that that the refurbished coat of arms on the Southbank can be clearly seen from the platform now that they have removed the temporary storage area.

The only little niggle is that the blue lighting on the sides of the bridge obscures the views at night. They should dim those lights a bit.


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## teuchter (Aug 24, 2013)

Damarr said:


> It's a cracking view to be sure. I also like that that the refurbished coat of arms on the Southbank can be clearly seen from the platform now that they have removed the temporary storage area.
> 
> The only little niggle is that the blue lighting on the sides of the bridge obscures the views at night. They should dim those lights a bit.


 
The blue lighting is stupid. They should get rid of it altogether.


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## Fozzie Bear (Sep 2, 2013)

The scaffolding along the east side top bit has finally come down.

Also "no busking" signs have gone up in the underpass on the south side.


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## grosun (Sep 6, 2013)

teuchter said:


> I can't think of any other (urban) station in the UK with a better view from the platforms. Perhaps even in Europe. The world?



'tis true!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 6, 2013)

Now the reflection on *that* side of 20 Fenchurch Street (the walkie talkie) is much better. I love the way it makes a miniature picture of the sunset due to its convex shape


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## davesgcr (Sep 7, 2013)

It really is quite impressive - !


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## teuchter (Sep 8, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Now the reflection on *that* side of 20 Fenchurch Street (the walkie talkie) is much better. I love the way it makes a miniature picture of the sunset due to its convex shape


I hate the way the whole stupid building is just an embarrassment for London.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2014)

I've posted up some photos of the completed station which looks rather splendid in its sci-fi blue glow. 

















http://www.urban75.org/blog/photos-...idge-the-worlds-largest-solar-powered-bridge/


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## teuchter (Mar 19, 2014)

I hate the blue lighting. Cheap and tacky.


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## Crispy (Mar 19, 2014)

I agree. Reminds me of a Subarus Impreza with dropped suspension and counter-rotating hubcaps.

Pretty good station otherwise, though. Turned out better that I thought, especially the roof.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Pretty good station otherwise, though. Turned out better that I thought, especially the roof.


 I like it, and I like the way it puts a streak of blue light across the Thames.


----------



## clicker (Mar 19, 2014)

I like the blue light, because from a distance it looks like a train speeding across.


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## teuchter (Mar 20, 2014)

clicker said:


> I like the blue light, because from a distance it looks like a train speeding across.


Since when did trains have blue lights?


----------



## marty21 (Mar 20, 2014)

Got the tube from Blackfriars Station a couple of weekends ago, first time I've been there since the work - I like it - and i like the blue lights


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## Bungle73 (Mar 20, 2014)

The one ting I don't like about the new station is that when I come out of the Globe or Tate, and I enter through the south entrance, a lot of the time the train is already in the platform, but it's only a 4 coach train, and it's parked right at the far end of the station!  This means I have to run the entire length of the station to catch it!  I don't know why they can't stop 4 coach trains in the middle of the platform?

Apart from that, the station is very nice.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 20, 2014)

4 car trains should be consigned to history soon


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## clicker (Mar 20, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Since when did trains have blue lights?


In my imagination it is streak of train speeding across a track...my imagination is no respecter of fact and neither should it be.


----------



## cybertect (Mar 22, 2014)

Gratuitous photo, since I've been using Blackfriars for an early morning commute this week  




Morning at Blackfriars by cybertect, on Flickr


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## Cloo (Mar 23, 2014)

I stopped at it for the first time since reopening a few weeks ago; verrr' nice.


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## hipipol (Mar 27, 2014)

The only idiot annoying thing is that you have to go out of gate from the tube, then in thru another for the train
Why no lift from tube to train platform?


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 27, 2014)

hipipol said:


> The only idiot annoying thing is that you have to go out of gate from the tube, then in thru another for the train
> Why no lift from tube to train platform?


Because the Tube station is the Tube station, and the NR station is the NR station. Different things, with different fares and different tickets.

And how are you going to have a lift from the Tube to the NR platforms when there are multiple platforms?


----------



## teuchter (Mar 27, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Because the Tube station is the Tube station, and the NR station is the NR station. Different things, with different fares and different tickets.
> 
> And how are you going to have a lift from the Tube to the NR platforms when there are multiple platforms?


At Farringdon you can go between tube and NR without going through the barriers, can't you?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 27, 2014)

teuchter said:


> At Farringdon you can go between tube and NR without going through the barriers, can't you?


Yep. Wracking my brain for other examples.


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 27, 2014)

teuchter said:


> At Farringdon you can go between tube and NR without going through the barriers, can't you?


You're right.  But the platforms are next to each other,  where as at Blackfriars they are on different levels and entirely separate, and it's always been like that at BF, and is at most other stations where one can interchange between NR and Tube I believe.


----------



## hipipol (Mar 27, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Yep. Wracking my brain for other examples.


Queens Park for example, or Ealing Broadway, or Stratford.............


Bungle73 said:


> You're right.  But the platforms are next to each other,  where as at Blackfriars they are on different levels and entirely separate, and it's always been like that at BF, and is at most other stations where one can interchange between NR and Tube I believe.


It would have been possible to have lifts connect the two levels - there is a lot of space at the Northern end of the NR platforms


----------



## hipipol (Mar 27, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Yep. Wracking my brain for other examples.


Kentish Town, Northern Line and NR served by the same ticket barriers in a shared station
This is the last, wont post any more, promise

OOOps, Highbury and Islington


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## Crispy (Mar 27, 2014)

Depends on whether there's actually a clear vertical corridor to thread a lift shaft through from tube to concourse.


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## se5 (Mar 27, 2014)

hipipol said:


> Kentish Town, Northern Line and NR served by the same ticket barriers in a shared station
> This is the last, wont post any more, promise
> 
> OOOps, Highbury and Islington



Also Old Street, Whitechapel, Canada Water...


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 27, 2014)

se5 said:


> Also Old Street, Whitechapel, Canada Water...


Whitechapel and Canada Water don't have NR services.....well technically they do, but it is London Overground which is TfL. Not the same as "proper" NR services though.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 27, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Whitechapel and Canada Water don't have NR services.....well technically they do, but it is London Overground which is TfL. Not the same as "proper" NR services though.


There are lots of stations that have proper NR and TfL overground though.

The point is, having the two ticketing systems doesn't prevent a station sharing ticket barriers.

In the case of Blackfriars my guess as to why there's no direct lift is that it just wouldn't be possible physially.


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## se5 (Mar 27, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Whitechapel and Canada Water don't have NR services.....well technically they do, but it is London Overground which is TfL. Not the same as "proper" NR services though.



Good point

Wimbledon has proper national rail, London underground and the tram


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## lang rabbie (Mar 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> There are lots of stations that have proper NR and TfL overground though.
> 
> The point is, having the two ticketing systems doesn't prevent a station sharing ticket barriers.
> 
> In the case of Blackfriars my guess as to why there's no direct lift is that it just wouldn't be possible physially.



The tube platforms are quite a bit north of the end of the mainline platforms by which point the high level tracks have to converge to get onto the bridge over Queen Victoria Street.


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## ShakespearO (Mar 29, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> And how are you going to have a lift from the Tube to the NR platforms when there are multiple platforms?


Just have a button to select which platform you want, ofcourse. They manage this on Star Trek.


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 16, 2016)

Dramas, this morning
Blackfriars station terror alert as police cordon off suspicious vehicle Blackfriars station terror alert as police cordon off suspicious vehicle


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## grosun (Jun 16, 2016)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Dramas, this morning
> Blackfriars station terror alert as police cordon off suspicious vehicle Blackfriars station terror alert as police cordon off suspicious vehicle


What the... how on earth would you get a car down there? They must've driven it a fair way along the South Bank, or down the stairs


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 16, 2016)

grosun said:


> What the... how on earth would you get a car down there? They must've driven it a fair way along the South Bank, or down the stairs



Yeah it's all a bit


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## Bungle73 (Jun 16, 2016)

There's a better picture from the Evening Standard.







Police called to Blackfriars after suspicious car found on Thames Path

Aren't there roads leading by the side of Tate Modern that the driver could have gone down to reach the riverside? My guess is that it's probably just some idiot who didn't know where they were going and took a wrong turn.


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