# RCP/Spiked/IoI



## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

Turns out someone I know is friends with Claire Fox and others from associated groups on Facebook. I made a comment about disliking Claire Fox and attracted the attention of other IoI types. They seem a bit weird, almost cult like, they certainly don't like criticism! Reminds me a bit of the scientologists.

Any had any experiences with them?


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Turns out someone I know is friends with Claire Fox and others from associated groups on Facebook. I made a comment about disliking Claire Fox and attracted the attention of other IoI types. They seem a bit weird, almost cult like, they certainly don't like criticism! Reminds me a bit of the scientologists.
> 
> Any had any experiences with them?


 
I'm going to enjoy this thread


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

I remember the RCP used to have an art gallery in Brum, Angle Gallery iirc. I once went to a anti criminal justice bill thing there (going back a bit!), my impression was they were weird even back then.


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## butchersapron (Mar 14, 2012)

Very interesting read from the LRB a few years back:

Who Are They?



> I’d bought a two-day ticket at £80, for which I got a red plastic bracelet. I had to keep it on overnight, the man told me; it would be fine in the bath or shower. Not many other people had red bracelets, I couldn’t help but notice. A lot had red ribbons round their necks with ID cards hanging from them – they were Contributors. Others had yellow ribbons, denoting Volunteers. Some Contributors were also Partners, and got their logos in the programme: the Economic and Social Research Council, Shell, PricewaterhouseCoopers, the British Library. I counted 55 Partners, Champions and Supporters in eight categories. You could feel a mind at work here, collecting, collating, naming, laying things out. It was very neat, this mind, good at networking and sorting; more talks, more sponsors, more slots on the grid. And a Reception with chamber music at the beginning and a Party with cheap beer at the end, and Satellite meetings in other cities before and after; once this mind gets going on its plan for world domination, it seems to find it hard to stop.


 


> In the 1980s, RCP members were often dishy and well turned-out, in that DMs and MA1 jacket, ambient-fury-of-the-Thatcher-era street-fighting way. This, I’m sorry to say, had a lot to do with why I used to buy their paper and once went to a meeting of their women’s chapter in Edinburgh, at which we were told that condoms were Thatcherite and we ought to celebrate scientific achievement by going on the Pill. The meeting was horrendous, bossy and full of buzzwords, run by people pretending they didn’t know each other. These days, IoI bods look like delegates at a Unison conference, or the seekers who gather at Landmark seminars and the Alpha Course.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 14, 2012)

I met weird Frank their leader at the ICA a few years ago, seemed a bit limp and awkward, I was a little disapointed as I've had a soft spot for them for ages.

Also a few years ago one of their front groups had a pro-immigration stall at Stokefest decorated with banners and posters with slogans like 'The More the Merrier' and 'Let them all in'. They accused me of being a CPB member for disagreeing with them...


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

I compared them to internet trolls on Facebook - didn't go down too well. They appear to have very high self regard for their intellectual arguments - despite not being able to respond to any points put to them.


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## Idaho (Mar 14, 2012)

Are these the ones who produce the paper Working Line?


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I remember the RCP used to have an art gallery in Brum, Angle Gallery iirc. I once went to a anti criminal justice bill thing there (going back a bit!), my impression was they were weird even back then.


 
The RCP in Brum all used to wear turtleneck jumpers, chinos and have gelled Lloyd Cole stylee hair.


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## Divisive Cotton (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I compared them to internet trolls on Facebook - didn't go down too well. They appear to have very high self regard for their intellectual arguments - despite not being able to respond to any points put to them.


 
So they've now been reduced to petty squabbling on Facebook 

But in the 90s they were "preparing for power"


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## Roadkill (Mar 14, 2012)

Weren't half the cast of _Rising Damp_ in the RCP - or was that the WRP?


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The RCP in Brum all used to wear turtleneck jumpers, chinos and have gelled Lloyd Cole stylee hair.


I used to listen to a lot of Lloyd Cole, lol.

The singer from Pram appears to be involved, its her fella that I'm friends with on Facebook. I like him as it goes, don't really know her though.


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

Divisive Cotton said:


> So they've now been reduced to petty squabbling on Facebook
> 
> But in the 90s they were "preparing for power"


Tbf, they've been quite successful as a media organisation. They still appear to claim to be left wing though, which is odd.


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## articul8 (Mar 14, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> , I was a little disapointed as I've had a soft spot for them for ages.
> .


 what, for their denial of Serbian war crimes and support for Milosevic?


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## articul8 (Mar 14, 2012)

Roadkill said:


> Weren't half the cast of _Rising Damp_ in the RCP - or was that the WRP?


WRP (and wasn't it only Miss Jones?)


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## love detective (Mar 14, 2012)

articul8 said:


> what, for their denial of Serbian war crimes and support for Milosevic?


 
they occasionally hit the mark on a enemy of my enemy is my friend basis


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## JHE (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> They still appear to claim to be left wing though, which is odd.


 
Where do they claim that?


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## articul8 (Mar 14, 2012)

love detective said:


> they occasionally hit the mark on a enemy of my enemy is my friend basis


they didn't on that occasion.  They are professional contrarians that's all.


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## love detective (Mar 14, 2012)

like a big phil dwyer


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## Smokeandsteam (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> I used to listen to a lot of Lloyd Cole, lol.
> 
> The singer from Pram appears to be involved, its her fella that I'm friends with on Facebook. I like him as it goes, don't really know her though.


 
I went to a Workers Against Racism (RCP front) meeting in Brum during this period. The two impressions I took away from the meeting were that 1. no workers were seemingly present at the meeting and 2. those who did assemble didn't look like they could knock the skin off rice pudding.


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## The39thStep (Mar 14, 2012)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The RCP in Brum all used to wear turtleneck jumpers, chinos and have gelled Lloyd Cole stylee hair.


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 14, 2012)

articul8 said:


> what, for their denial of Serbian war crimes and support for Milosevic?


 
No, because they sometimes skewer liberal left certainties in an entertaining way.


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

Roadkill said:


> Weren't half the cast of _Rising Damp_ in the RCP - or was that the WRP?


That was the WRP.


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

JHE said:


> Where do they claim that?


On a thread on Facebook.


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## Nigel (Mar 14, 2012)

I would have thought that Spiked would consider itself beyond such labels these days.
Wanting to be post- meta- politics in the conventional sense.
Like their T-Shirt:* There Is No Gaia: Stop Worrying & Enjoy Yourself!*
http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/about/article/5906/


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## audiotech (Mar 14, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Very interesting read from the LRB a few years back:
> 
> Who Are They?


Having known a few RCPer's in my time, with one of them living with me for a period, who I eventually kicked out, as he was driving me bonkers, I found that an enjoyable read.



> Frank Furedi,..... has gone from wanting to change the world to ‘whingeing about it, like a cut-price Julie Burchill’...


​And he gets hired out via his agent for £2.5 to £5k!​


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## Fozzie Bear (Mar 14, 2012)

There were some RCP types at the Polytechnic of Central London when I was there in the late 80s. Black roll necks, bit dour.

I seem to recall one of them had to fax the central office before student union meetings so they could be told which way to vote? (Maybe that was just an evil rumour).

Also, didn't people have to pass an exam before they could join the RCP?


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

My main impression of them during the anti CJB campaign in the early 90s was that they were dour and unable to enjoy themselves. At least I used to see the SWP lot having a drink, a dance and a laugh. Not the RCP though.


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## Nigel (Mar 14, 2012)

No talk of the horizontal recruitment policy yet


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## killer b (Mar 14, 2012)

that article on LRB was a good read - the soap opera of the far left often makes for a diverting read... must say the whole cast of characters has pretty much passed me by until now though (apart from the occasional spiked article ernie used to post up).


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 14, 2012)

articul8 said:


> WRP (and wasn't it only Miss Jones?)


This.


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

what's their connection to the "fight racism fight imperialism" lot?


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 14, 2012)

Isn't Kenan Malik one of theirs?


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## past caring (Mar 14, 2012)

Nigel said:


> No talk of the horizontal recruitment policy yet


 
There was this woman in the early 90s who was one of their members and a bit of a sort and was mates of mates, but I singularly failed to get horizontal with her.  May have had something to do with the fact that she discerned fairly early on that it was only the horizontal bit I was interested in, but then again it was only one of a (not inconsiderable) number of other failures at that time, so maybe it was me....


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

> And so the early RCP struck out in bold new directions; it was particularly interested in science, medicine, reproductive health. The NHS was described in a pamphlet published in 1983 as ‘a system that has always provided third-rate services on the cheap for working-class people’. Nuclear power was ‘potentially safer and less environmentally damaging than existing methods of electricity generation’; ‘green concerns’ were ‘the politics of evasion’. In 1984, the party withheld its support from the striking National Union of Mineworkers, arguing that without a national ballot, the strike was doomed to failure: a position that alienated it from the last great moment of the British labour movement. In 1987, the party published its notorious pamphlet ​_The Truth about the Aids Panic​_, which argued that HIV would never spread in rich countries beyond needle-sharers and practitioners of casual anal sex, and that Aids charities were just pretending it would because they liked interfering with people’s private lives. Time has shown the RCP’s arguments to have been sort of right: Scargill didn’t win, Aids didn’t spread as originally predicted, even George Monbiot now supports the case for nuclear power, faute de mieux. But the victories are the sort that come not from rigour but rigidity – the mechanical rightness, twice daily, of the stopped clock.​[3]​


 
sounds like real life trolling.


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## past caring (Mar 14, 2012)

After that I started to go for birds who were a bit younger.


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## Nigel Irritable (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> what's their connection to the "fight racism fight imperialism" lot?


 
When the International Socialists were becoming the SWP they booted out a whole series of factions and malcontents, one group after another. One of the groups kicked out didn't really have an official name, but was called "the Right Opposition" by the leadership. Once they were kicked out, this group itself quickly split into three.

One lot became the Discussion Group and disappeared off into the Labour Party to very quietly discuss things for decades on end.

Another lot became the Revolutionary Communist Group, led by David Yaaffe and better known by the title of their paper "Fight Racism! Fight Imperialism!". They slowly adopted a sort of eclectic Stalinism.

The third group became the Revolutionary Communist Tendency and then the Revolutionary Communist Party and then LM and then Spiked and the Institute of Ideas etc. Led by Frank Furedi, famed for contrarianism, the last piddling little group on the British left to grow into a group of a few hundred. The main part of their common heritage with the RCG that they kept for years was their "anti-imperialism".


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> Isn't Kenan Malik one of theirs?


Yes, he is.


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## belboid (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> what's their connection to the "fight racism fight imperialism" lot?


bugger all (well, except through the normal myriad connections of the far left)


SpineyNorman said:


> Isn't Kenan Malik one of theirs?


supportive, but not sure he was ever actually a member.

Easterhouse were there most famous supporters. But they weren't even as good as the Redskins.

My abiding memory of them was there attempting to stop our Socialist Worker sales in Wood Green, arriving ten minutes after we did, and then insisting on trying to stand directly in front of us, and being more concerned with stopping us selling than with selling their own expensive rag.

(Actually, rag is unfair, as they always had very expensive looking everything.  I was once told they'd never let me join because I was fair too scruffy.  Politics were irrelevant, clotes vital).

On one anti-apartheid demo/action/something, I recall one bloke laying two of them out as they decried the pointlessness of the activity, and told us all we were all effectively helping racism.  I forget their logic behind that position, but their logic was always pretty convoluted, to say the least.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

Here's yer man at Spiked! doing his thing on Torygraph blogs
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...ghts-activists-who-are-sneering-at-kony-2012/


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> When the International Socialists were becoming the SWP they booted out a whole series of factions and malcontents, one group after another. One of the groups kicked out didn't really have an official name, but was called "the Right Opposition" by the leadership. Once they were kicked out, this group itself quickly split into three.
> 
> One lot became the Discussion Group and disappeared off into the Labour Party to very quietly discuss things for decades on end.
> 
> ...


 
Haha, OK. Oh dear


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## belboid (Mar 14, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> Here's yer man at Spiked! doing his thing on Torygraph blogs
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...ghts-activists-who-are-sneering-at-kony-2012/


Brendan O'Neills torygraph column's are so far to the right they make Mad Mel Philips embarassed


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> Here's yer man at Spiked! doing his thing on Torygraph blogs
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...ghts-activists-who-are-sneering-at-kony-2012/


 
that's funny because with their extreme crudely pro-serb "anti-imperialism" stance over Kosovo etc, i would have thought singing the praises of Joseph Kony would be right up their street.

(note - i'm not saying i agree with nato's actions in kosovo, but those guys attempted to make it out like milosevic was the good guy)


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

The RCP would frequently turn up to Anti-Apartheid meetings with the sole intention of disrupting them.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

belboid said:


> Brendan O'Neills torygraph column's are so far to the right they make Mad Mel Philips embarassed


Yet he'll sometimes tell his readers that he's on the "left".


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

they sound like a right wing version of the sparts.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> that's funny because with their extreme crudely pro-serb "anti-imperialism" stance over Kosovo etc, i would have thought singing the praises of Joseph Kony would be right up their street.
> 
> (note - i'm not saying i agree with nato's actions in kosovo, but those guys attempted to make it out like milosevic was the good guy)


 
Yep, total contrarians.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> they sound like a right wing version of the sparts.


 
Well, they are a cult organised around the personality of Furedi. Membership was always limited to a small core of people. All of those who sold The Next Step on the streets were called "supporters".


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

it sounds like they're trying to do a bit of entryism into the tory party and the establishment (with some success).


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## belboid (Mar 14, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> The RCP would frequently turn up to Anti-Apartheid meetings with the sole intention of disrupting them.


can you recall why? Something to do with not being properly anti-imperialist I guess.


Another of their great madnesses, they rejected Chaos Theory, not on the basis of any scientific knowledge or enquiry, but because it would make a planned economy impossible!


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## belboid (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> it sounds like they're trying to do a bit of entryism into the tory party and the establishment (with some success).


rumours of them being some kind of state front were always rife. They had too few members to be able to fund all that shininess, and those leather jackets...


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

belboid said:


> can you recall why? Something to do with not being properly anti-imperialist I guess.
> 
> 
> Another of their great madnesses, they rejected Chaos Theory, not on the basis of any scientific knowledge or enquiry, but because it would make a planned economy impossible!


 
I'd try to get answers out of them and the most popular one I heard was "it's a bourgeois struggle". Like they weren't bourgeois themselves!


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

Did anyone ever buy their paper?


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Did anyone ever buy their paper?


 
Sure, mainly students. I used to find copies lying about and have a look but it was never a good read. Socialist Worker was better.


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## Nigel Irritable (Mar 14, 2012)

belboid said:


> rumours of them being some kind of state front were always rife. They had too few members to be able to fund all that shininess, and those leather jackets...


 
Except they didn't really have too few members, if they recruited amongst a wealthier or more upwardly mobile cohort than most far left groups and if they then squeezed those members hard. And quite a bit of the apparent shininess was likely down to having recruited a few competent graphic designers rather than necessarily a much greater outlay.


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## Nigel Irritable (Mar 14, 2012)

belboid said:


> can you recall why? Something to do with not being properly anti-imperialist I guess.


 
The official anti-apartheid movement was dominated by the CPGB, as the CPs were the ANC's preferred franchise holders worldwide. The CPs, as always preferred to keep movements they control as liberal and unthreatening as possible. The RCP wanted a full on "anti-imperialist" solidarity movement.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 14, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> Sure, mainly students. I used to find copies lying about and have a look but it was never a good read. Socialist Worker was better.


 
I bought one on my first day at uni I think. And never again.


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## belboid (Mar 14, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> Except they didn't really have too few members, if they recruited amongst a wealthier or more upwardly mobile cohort than most far left groups and if they then squeezed those members hard. And quite a bit of the apparent shininess was likely down to having recruited a few competent graphic designers rather than necessarily a much greater outlay.


yeah, but saying they were a state front was always far more fun.  Class War did a piss-take poster ridiculing all their positions once, flyposted it everywhere (which seems quite a waste of CW's money as well, but it was funny).  Annoyed the fuck out of them.


Nigel Irritable said:


> The official anti-apartheid movement was dominated by the CPGB, as the CPs were the ANC's preferred franchise holders worldwide. The CPs, as always preferred to keep movements they control as liberal and unthreatening as possible. The RCP wanted a full on "anti-imperialist" solidarity movement.


it doesn't really seem enough for the vehemence, often bordering on violence, with which they proclaimed their position. But sense rarely affected any of their actions anyway


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## dynamicbaddog (Mar 14, 2012)

anyone remember the RCP's rock band Easterhouse? There was serious rivalry between them and the SWP's  Redskins.  I remember being at a houseparty during  the 80s and some very earnest RCP types insisting we all listened to the  debut album .


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 14, 2012)

belboid said:


> supportive, but not sure he was ever actually a member.


That's a relief, not read all that much of it but I like a lot of his work. Spiked are the climate change denying ones aren't they?


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## SpineyNorman (Mar 14, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> Sure, mainly students. I used to find copies lying about and have a look but it was never a good read. Socialist Worker was better.


 
My brother's still got some socialist workers from when he was in the SWP in the 80s and I've got to say they were way better back then than they are now, even had some decent jokes in them.


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## Meltingpot (Mar 14, 2012)

I used to read "Spiked" a lot and occasionally posted on the "Letters" page, but these days the utter cynicism of the whole thing grinds me down (apart from Duleep Allirajah, whio I think is excellent on sport) and I can't stomach it.

Their whole message now seems to be small "c" conservative - anti-alarmism of any kind, no matter how justified the "alarm" might be, campaigners are all either misguided fools or chancers doing it for the lowest reasons, etc. Almost like P J O'Rourke, except that he is at least occasionally funny.


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## articul8 (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Did anyone ever buy their paper?


 
their "Living Marxism" mag was in WH Smiths in the 90s - had nothing to do with Marxism and precious little to do with "living"


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## Fedayn (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> Did anyone ever buy their paper?


 
The Next Step you mean the old RCP paper? I bought it once when they were doing a door-to-door sale where I was staying. Couldn't get rid of them quick enough as there was football on the tv.

It was pisspoor.


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## JHE (Mar 14, 2012)

articul8 said:


> their "Living Marxism" mag was in WH Smiths in the 90s - had nothing to do with Marxism and precious little to do with "living"


which, I suppose, was why they changed it from 'Living Marxism' to 'LM'.

It was an OK mag, but not a left-wing mag.  I remember grumpy articles about education - against 'dumbing down' and in favour of education for education's sake - and articles in defence of free speech.  There must have been lots of other stuff, but I can't remember what.


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## articul8 (Mar 14, 2012)

Mostly "what are these Bosnian prisoners of war complaining about - they are ITN actors" type bullshit.  It was a total rag.


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## JHE (Mar 14, 2012)

articul8 said:


> Mostly "what are these Bosnian prisoners of war complaining about - they are ITN actors" type bullshit. It was a total rag.


They came a cropper on that.

I think they were right, though, in pointing out that the media in this country cast the Serbs in the role of baddies and other sides in the Balkans only as victims.


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## Fedayn (Mar 14, 2012)

JHE said:


> They came a cropper on that.
> 
> I think they were right, though, in pointing out that the media in this country cast the Serbs in the role of baddies and other sides in the Balkans only as victims.


 
But plenty of people on the Left managed that without the attendant LM lies about prison camps.


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## articul8 (Mar 14, 2012)

The Serbian leadership were a shower of cunts to be fair.  And there were Bosnian muslim and Croat victims.  Doesn't mean that the bombings of Belgrade were justified or owt though.


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> My brother's still got some socialist workers from when he was in the SWP in the 80s and I've got to say they were way better back then than they are now, even had some decent jokes in them.


 
I used to love the "Things They Say" column. I used to piss myself (laughing).


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## JHE (Mar 14, 2012)

articul8 said:


> The Serbian leadership were a shower of cunts to be fair. And there were Bosnian muslim and Croat victims.


Yes, there certainly were.  There were also Serb victims.  The whole thing was horrendous.


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## articul8 (Mar 14, 2012)

JHE said:


> Yes, there certainly were. There were also Serb victims. The whole thing was horrendous.


yep - but no reason to make mad accusations about Bosnian POWs being ITN actors


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

From Powerbase





http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/The_next_step

Talk about delusional


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

whatever spiked is, it certainly can't be described as "a working class viewpoint"


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## JimW (Mar 14, 2012)

I had an Easterhouse album and downloaded it again not so long back, some cracking tunes. Wasn't sure who exactly they were fronting for, but song titles like 'Lenin in Zurich' got you in the general ballpark!


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## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2012)

dynamicbaddog said:


> anyone remember the RCP's rock band Easterhouse? There was serious rivalry between them and the SWP's Redskins. I remember being at a houseparty during the 80s and some very earnest RCP types insisting we all listened to the debut album .




I remember them. They played Newcastle Poly and the Riverside. Never saw them.

I liked The Redskins. Still do.


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> Yet he'll sometimes tell his readers that he's on the "left".


 
Here's the intro to his anti-anti-workfare piece for Spiked

"*As a radical leftist of some years’ standing..."*


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

Well Claire Fox herself has joined the fray on Facebook.  After I stated that she was pro-free market, she had this to say - " For the record, I am not free market but for freedom and asking the state to regulate even the market is anti-freedom."

Eh?  lol


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## killer b (Mar 14, 2012)

is the punch-up publicly viewable...?


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## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

killer b said:


> is the punch-up publicly viewable...?


 
Not without linking my real life name to here, not something I wish to do.  Sorry.


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 14, 2012)

tbf i think they were actually proven correct on the Bosnian POW picture that got them taken to court. at least, even if the concentration camps did exist the Judge at the trial said that he believed the ITN journalists had been mistaken in identifying who was behind the wire-mesh fence. in the end they were done for libel, not for 'lying' - the distinction being that UK libel laws place the emphasis on the defendent (LM) not to produce evidence as to the truth of their own claims, but for them to _prove_ that the ITN journalists were attempting to 'deliberately mislead' the public.

so, on the basis of the court ruling alone, they were only done for failing to prove that the ITN journos were deliberately distorting facts rather than on the validity of their own position.


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## killer b (Mar 14, 2012)

fair play.


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

articul8 said:


> yep - but no reason to make mad accusations about Bosnian POWs being ITN actors


 
yes, to be honest i do largely agree that the way that the serbs were portrayed during the entire conflict was absolutely despicable and i do have some sympathy with LM's position. however, to then go on to go from that to denying atrocities in bosnia and claiming they are faked by actors is bang out of order, or to say that milosevic was some sort of hero. 

especially with the shit they said about rwanda. jesus.


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

so what about now? Do they still consider themselves trots?


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## Das Uberdog (Mar 14, 2012)

for my sins i know a few of them, and tbh they're mainly confused. most still try to claim to have something to do with Marx, some on a personal level claim to be Trots (and some of the higher-uppers too) but so far as i can see it's meaningless


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## dynamicbaddog (Mar 14, 2012)

belboid said:


> Brendan O'Neills torygraph column's are so far to the right they make Mad Mel Philips embarassed


yeah, I went to debate he was speaking at last year, tory  columnist   Ed West was also present. He made Mr West look like a raving leftie


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## Gavin Bl (Mar 14, 2012)

I went on the coach to the big demo in Welling (1992-93?), The RCP bought tickets for the bus solely to try and convince people not to go on the demo. Their dismay and outrage at the idea that we might want them to get the fuck off the bus was priceless.

I kind of admired the sheer audacity, but they had a hell of time from all the other passengers as they got off, when everyone realised why they were there! And they wanted a refund!


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## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2012)

Gavin Bl said:


> I went on the coach to the big demo in Welling (1992-93?), The RCP bought tickets for the bus solely to try and convince people not to go on the demo. Their dismay and outrage at the idea that we might want them to get the fuck off the bus was priceless.
> 
> I kind of admired the sheer audacity, but they had a hell of time from all the other passengers as they got off, when everyone realised why they were there! And they wanted a refund!


 
that's awesome and also


----------



## Blagsta (Mar 14, 2012)

Jesus, they are piss poor at debate.


----------



## Gavin Bl (Mar 14, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> that's awesome and also


 
I usually find it pretty difficult to be confrontational with people, but even I managed it on that damn bus.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, Claire Fox is basically just a non-affiliated lib dem who supports scabbing, cut backs in welfare, massive inequality and giving a platform to racists with occassional interjections about her 'werking class' roots and previous political radicalism. Tedious and shit.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 14, 2012)

Cant stand Claire Fox. Shes a thick as shit right wing libetarian who has a bafflingly high media presence.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Well Claire Fox herself has joined the fray on Facebook. After I stated that she was pro-free market, she had this to say - " For the record, I am not free market but for freedom and asking the state to regulate even the market is anti-freedom."
> 
> Eh?  lol


She (and the group as a whole) wrote a whole load of pro-drug company pieces after receiving a donation from said drug companies. Basically they'll spruik for anybody.



> Five years ago the Guardian investigated Claire Fox and her Institute of Ideas. It found that she was linked to pro-gun American libertarian groups, was funded by unpleasant pharmaceutical corporations and had a shady past in the nastiest Trotskyist bunch who ever picketed a nurses' pay dispute. Then, two years ago, George Monbiot castigated Fox in this paper for being a member of a "bizarre and cultish network" that was poisoning scientific debate in Britain. He charged that she was in cahoots with her sister, Fiona, who ran a dubious PR firm that was in hock to GM companies and proselytised for pharmaceutical corporations. If his page had come in scratch 'n' sniff, it would have emitted a whiff of sulphur.


Here

Brilliantly one of the articles you find on the Guardian when you search for her is this


> What price editorial independence?
> Film makers must walk a fine line when excepting funding from any organisation warns Claire Fox


----------



## belboid (Mar 14, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Jesus, they are piss poor at debate.


it was almost worth going to their meetings on free spech.  Just so that you could talk throughout, and then condemn their hypocrisy when they tried to shut you up


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 14, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Cant stand Claire Fox. Shes a thick as shit right wing libetarian who has a bafflingly high media presence.


 
I just did a quick google and I couldn't find any books or articles published in peer reviewed acadamic journals by her. On top of that she isn't a popular journalist with a regular column. For somebody with such a high media presence she has absolutely no credentials whatsoever. She's given a platform because she espouses ruling ideas dressed up contrarian opinion.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 14, 2012)

redsquirrel said:


> She (and the group as a whole) wrote a whole load of pro-drug company pieces after receiving a donation from said drug companies. Basically they'll spruik for anybody.


 
I get the impression the IoI and Spiked are in the pay of the PRC aswell. Libertarians for Market Stalinism!


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 14, 2012)

belboid said:


> it was almost worth going to their meetings on free spech. Just so that you could talk throughout, and then condemn their hypocrisy when they tried to shut you up


 
She'd probably pull the Murray Rothbard line that like all rights, speech is a property right and that by hiring out the room the organisers have the right to apportion speech within it as they wish.


----------



## Jean-Luc (Mar 15, 2012)

articul8 said:


> their "Living Marxism" mag was in WH Smiths in the 90s - had nothing to do with Marxism and precious little to do with "living"


Yes, "Dead Leninism" would have been a more appropriate title.


----------



## chilango (Mar 15, 2012)

The RCP were the first lefty group I was ever exposed to thanks to Living Marxism being for sale in WH Smiths.

Never had much contact with them after that though except at Welling where they were at the assembly point telling people to go home, and briefly during the CJB stuff when they turned up at a couple of EF! meetings, looked confused and went away again.

Back in the mid90s I used to troll their message boards, they were easy to wind up.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 15, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I just did a quick google and I couldn't find any books or articles published in peer reviewed acadamic journals by her. On top of that she isn't a popular journalist with a regular column. For somebody with such a high media presence she has absolutely no credentials whatsoever. She's given a platform because she espouses ruling ideas dressed up contrarian opinion.


 
Exactly this. Cant stand the way she plays the 'prole-lier than thou' card either.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 15, 2012)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I get the impression the IoI and Spiked are in the pay of the PRC aswell. Libertarians for Market Stalinism!


 
I do suspect they have a financial relationship with Russia as well.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> When the International Socialists were becoming the SWP they booted out a whole series of factions and malcontents, one group after another. One of the groups kicked out didn't really have an official name, but was called "the Right Opposition" by the leadership. Once they were kicked out, this group itself quickly split into three.
> 
> One lot became the Discussion Group and disappeared off into the Labour Party to very quietly discuss things for decades on end.
> 
> ...


 
Its hard not to have respect for the IS in expelling them and the groups that became Workers Power and AWL


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 15, 2012)

Am I right in remembering that the Discussion Group are still going somewhere...?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

dynamicbaddog said:


> anyone remember the RCP's rock band Easterhouse? There was serious rivalry between them and the SWP's Redskins. I remember being at a houseparty during the 80s and some very earnest RCP types insisting we all listened to the debut album .





Was part of a drunken Miners Support Group group that heckled Easterhouse all through their gig at the Mean Fiddler for calling for a ballot in the Miners strike.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Am I right in remembering that the Discussion Group are still going somewhere...?


 
They were deep entrists in Cheadlehighstreet Labour and Co-op Party's Constitution Sub Committee


----------



## love detective (Mar 15, 2012)

what news of Ginger, Douglas, Henry and Violet Elisabeth these days?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 15, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> They were deep entrists in Cheadlehighstreet Labour and Co-op Party's Constitution Sub Committee


 
What ho Cockers!


----------



## love detective (Mar 15, 2012)

_Will you allow me to pass, comrade in this pre revolutionary period_


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

love detective said:


> what news of Ginger, Douglas, Henry and Violet Elisabeth these days?


 
Heard some rumours of sightings doing the riots with Cockers and Douglas  mistaking a group of black Pentecostal youth for would be looters and arranging to text them on his phone to meet up .
Violet is still with Nigel Irritable and is anorexic.
Henry joined an  EDL/Workers Defence Squad re-enactment society which uses Subutteo players to show to young people the threat of fascism to the workers and teachers movement.
Ginger is involved in the From Falafels to Fourth International  - Lindseys Germans Good Food Tour which I might have some extracts from.


----------



## love detective (Mar 15, 2012)

great bunch of lads (and lassies)

and Attica - the last we heard was that....

_....ever since he had divided the world anarchist movement by splitting from Class War his Smuggled Smokers Emporium and EP Thompson Book Shop had had mixed fortunes. On one hand his readings of the great mans works had attracted up to as any as three or four adults and two miners, his EP Thompson fancy dress nights had attracted the anti Althusserian elements within the lecturers milieu, and his musical The Making of the English Working Class had despite the difficulties with the wine bottle and kazoo orchestral arrangements had received favourable reviews. However the policy of encouraging shoplifting had meant that much of the tobacco he had smuggled in, in the form of ethical working class resistance to capitalism, had been stolen and he was now reliant on offers for shoplifters to steal two packs of fags for the price of three in order to conserve stock._


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

Great days, great days




> In the quiet cul de sac of Lenin Crescent, in the house with Roman numerals that read VI. Round the back garden, just above the solar powered water feature. In the upstairs bedroom with the red curtains with gold hammers and sickles drawn. Past the bedroom door that displayed the warning Do not enter General Strike in progress. In the bed with the Che Guevara bed spread, slept the worlds most junior senior member of the revolutionary vanguard. Cockers.
> 
> “Cockers, oh Cockers, save me from that nasty George Galloway, he says it is a disgrace that I dress like this and talk about sex. I want to talk about sex with you Cockers.”
> 
> ...


----------



## love detective (Mar 15, 2012)

_



			Cockers opened the door to the vault of the Headless Chicken, “Sorry he said I thought it would be packed what with the Labour Party Deputy leadership contest being on, excuse me, “ he stared momentarily looking at the scraps of print outs from internet message boards that were still in the bin, “I need some assistance and I was informed that I could ask for help here."
		
Click to expand...

_


> _“Of course,” said Butchers, "Two pints and one for yourself barman, oh and what ever you want young Trotskyite. Damn should have gone to the bank earlier, will you oblige? Good now sit down and tell me all about it……….”_
> 
> _Four rounds later Cockers at last had some firm advice.For the sake of working class unity he had not allowed Butchers and Red n Black to pay for a round. Not that they had offered as they explained, the job of the vanguard is to lead, show the way, and set and example. Cockers had in his grasp the phone number of Cheadle's own unique Class War police Force. He dialled the number on the piece of paper that Butchers had given him, 666. It rang and a voice boomed out_
> 
> ...


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 15, 2012)

dynamicbaddog said:


> yeah, I went to debate he was speaking at last year, tory columnist Ed West was also present. He made Mr West look like a raving leftie


(Fr)Ed West's brother is involved in the RCP/IoI thing.


----------



## past caring (Mar 15, 2012)

Never mind all that. I made a fucking corker of a joke on this thread and not one of yous cunts "liked" it.


----------



## love detective (Mar 15, 2012)

early 90's - i was about to make a joke about it then realised there already was one


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 15, 2012)

past caring said:


> Never mind all that. I made a fucking corker of a joke on this thread and not one of yous cunts "liked" it.


 
ok


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 15, 2012)

past caring said:


> Never mind all that. I made a fucking corker of a joke on this thread and not one of yous cunts "liked" it.


 
This entire thread is a fucking corker.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 15, 2012)

Here's a 2005 Guardian interview with Claire Fox.



> Claire Fox is, if not the devil, then someone who holds devilishly unsettling views. In her time, she has stood up for Gary Glitter's right to download child porn, libelled ITN journalists, backed GM technology and attacked multiculturalism.


 
And



> Fox arrived at Warwick University a Tory-supporting member of the Society for the Unborn Child and a sentimental devotee of Catholic liberation theology in South America. She left three years later a libertarian Marxist with a 2:2 in literature and a summa cum laude in selling lefty papers and going on demos.


 
And



> She finishes another cigarette and makes to leave. She has to bone up for this week's Moral Maze. Was Michael Buerk right to say that women are taking over in a frightening way? "Michael can speak for himself," she says. "What I will say, though, is when I got involved in politics one of things that was important for me was that a lot of the values associated with masculinity were ideas I would embrace - rationality, leadership, bravery. Why would I want to be a soft carer? What's interesting now is that society gives more value to feminine characteristics I have little regard for. Emotion more important than reason? Come off it."  http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2005/nov/19/comment.radio


 
Confused? Oh yes.


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 15, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> Here's a 2005 Guardian interview with Claire Fox.
> 
> And
> 
> ...


 
i don't get it. do they use "marxism" to argue for right wing shit?


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 15, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i don't get it. do they use "marxism" to argue for right wing shit?


That's it in a nutshell. Truly bonkers stuff.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 15, 2012)

But why do the producers of The ghastly Moral Maze think she's qualified to speak on moral issues?


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 15, 2012)

I found this blog. Unfortunately the picture of "Clare Fox" does not match the description of Claire Fox (RCP).




> The Institute accuses fellow secularists of engaging in:
> _A New Atheist witch-hunt – in stark contrast to their own professed views on tolerance._​​Speaking to launch a series of religion-themed debates at this year’s Battle of Ideas festival, Institute of Ideas Director Claire Fox said:
> _While many reacted with horror at France and Belgium with their intolerant ban on the burqa, the response of some secular campaigners shows that such demonization of religious groups is alive and kicking in the UK.​_​The Institute argues:
> _Hysterical, oft-repeated arguments such as that the Pope is â€˜a leader of the world’s largest paedophile ring’ Â have more in common with contemporary heresy-hunting than the free-thinking spirit of Enlightenment secularism.
> There are many reasons to criticise religious leaders, and plenty are coming from within the Church itself, but secularists really should take the opportunity to remind themselves of the Enlightenment values they claim to stand for – Â such as tolerance, freedom of thought and conscience and a human being as a rational subject – rather than focusing on what they hate about the Church and, by extension, Catholics._​


----------



## belboid (Mar 15, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> But why do the producers of The ghastly Moral Maze think she's qualified to speak on moral issues?


hmm, why does one of the most bourgeois programmes on the bourgeois radio station of choice want a right-wing viewpoint to be put by a pseudo-lefty....let me think...


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 15, 2012)

because they're bourgeois


----------



## belboid (Mar 15, 2012)

that could be it!


----------



## audiotech (Mar 15, 2012)

It would be a sight to behold to clock Claire Fox's boat race at a Public Image Ltd gig, with Lydon in full rant against all things Pope and catholic.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 15, 2012)

The thing about Claire Fox From The Institute Of Ideas on the Moral Maze, though, is that if your only shtick is being a reflex reactionary controversialist, when you appear on a programme where loads of people are doing the same, you just come across as flat. When Mad Mel goes off on a rant at least there's something behind it apart from just automatic disagreement, or it feels like there is. CFFTIOI doesn't seem to have the underlying conviction, and when she talks to a "witness", instead of thinking "that's utterly fucking insane" you just think "that's sort of weak and boring".


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

From Falafels to Fourth International - Lindseys Germans Good Food Tour



> If it’s Monday its not fish day as the boats will not have been out but luckily Hasitha knows a superb Bangladeshi café where they do a marvellous fish taka. The campaign manager Serita brings iced mango lassi and figs from a very kind old retired Indian general who regaled us of tales of the Pakistan /Indian conflict. Although I do not hold that those in the east of the subcontinent are the sons of pigs I do empathise with him on the terrible legacy of British Imperialism in setting up worker against worker in the same country.We did the same in Ireland of course and the chickens have come home to roost.​​The vegetable pilaf was off so it was left to Mrs Rajanasankee to bring out coconut rice and aubergine banazeer as we discussed the mornings work. Sarah, Edmundi and Richard had popped us to help us from the local university, Natasha and Bjorn too lovely ladies had brought their children Autumn and Gaia with them as we leafleted the High Street, shoppers at the organic farmers market eagerly took our flyers and discussed climate change and the spread of Islamphobia. Many said that they would not vote Blair again in the next election. Back to lunch and the sweet matte tea that Balwinder brought us, a South African beverage that one could imagine Nelson sipping himself as he gazed out to the sea behind bars thinking of the Spear of the Nation and Zola Budd slipping over in the Olympics.​
> 
> Our coach stops at Farringdon where after a light brunch I am introduced to a group of Somali seaman whose Khatt Cafe is being threatened with closure. Despite the kippers repeating the meeting is very productive with Respect stickers given out and many of the men say they will send their wives out to vote for me.​
> 
> ...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 15, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> But why do the producers of The ghastly Moral Maze think she's qualified to speak on moral issues?


 
They don't, they want opinionated gobshites who'll rattle a few cages, not people qualified to speak on issues. Why do you think Mad Mel and Rabid Starkey get regular slots?


----------



## articul8 (Mar 15, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> I found this blog. Unfortunately the picture of "Clare Fox" does not match the description of Claire Fox (RCP).


even a stopped clock...


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 15, 2012)

More from From Falafels to Fourth International - Lindseys Germans Good Food Tour



> In Southwark we were met by Somali Youth concerned about the Bush Blair war on terror. This government has demonised youth to the extent that one of The Muddan Massive Yung Soljers had been tagged and on a curfew since he was 16 for six months for merely asking for someone's wallet. He asked for RESPECT to stand up for youth. The local Iman and I held his leg and with one leap he was set free .
> 
> Home relatively early at just after 9. Cook a meal out of the ingredients to hand - potatoes, anchovies, garlic and cheese and some salad. Believe me, it's delicious.


----------



## Nigel (Mar 15, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> sounds like real life trolling.


Not only that dangerous to any idiot who would believe this stuff socially dangerous to anyone who would use this in deciding policy


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 15, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> More from From Falafels to Fourth International - Lindseys Germans Good Food Tour


 
Is this a joke?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 15, 2012)

It's quite a good one.


----------



## love detective (Mar 15, 2012)

lol


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 15, 2012)

_This government has demonised youth to the extent that one of The Muddan Massive Yung Soljers had been tagged and on a curfew since he was 16 for six months for merely asking for someone's wallet. He asked for RESPECT to stand up for youth. The local Iman and I held his leg and with one leap he was set free ._

what


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 15, 2012)

_In the evening I write to the TGWU to remind them that many people are concerned that they are not using Fairtrade coffee on the picket line at Gate Gourmet. _

what the oh please god no she didn't did she? oh she probably did


----------



## love detective (Mar 15, 2012)

> The permanent external faction of Worker Power invites advance sections of the working class to:
> 
> _Socialism Plus in the 21st century _
> 
> ...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 15, 2012)

What's the source? I would like to send it an organic samosa and promise it my vote.


----------



## discokermit (Mar 15, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's quite a good one.


it is but it's pretty old. needs updating.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 15, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> More from From Falafels to Fourth International - Lindseys Germans Good Food Tour[/
> 
> 
> More please.....


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 15, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> i don't get it. do they use "marxism" to argue for right wing shit?


I think it's more of case were they'll argue for anything which will either bring in money of get them some media attention.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 15, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> They don't, they want opinionated gobshites who'll rattle a few cages, not people qualified to speak on issues. Why do you think Mad Mel and Rabid Starkey get regular slots?


 
But - vile though their politics are -  both mad mel and Starkey can rationalise their postion and defend it. Fox's politics are also vile but she cant even argue them - she just goes off at tangents  (which usually involve reminding us that she is a working class woman) - and has little or no logical consistancy to her 'arguments'. She's thick as shit.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Mar 15, 2012)

http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/westhamblog/2005_04_01_archive.html

Shit the bed. I genuinely thought this was pastiche.



> Then out to local primary schools to leaflet and gain support. Ghada and I have a good time with the kids who hate Bush and Blair and their parents who are fantastic. But for the under tens the main attraction is the ice cream van which has a regular stream of customers.


 
Is Socialist Review a real site? Was there ever a Lindsey German?


----------



## past caring (Mar 16, 2012)

Yes and yes - though I am not certain that all of the stuff in From Falafels to the Fourth International is _entirely_ genuine.


----------



## audiotech (Mar 16, 2012)

I spotted a young Lindsay German in the canteen at Skegness one year, sat with Tony Cliff. I think it was bangers and mash that day.


----------



## co-op (Mar 16, 2012)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Was there ever a Lindsey German?


 




Yes.


----------



## co-op (Mar 16, 2012)

The piss takes are making me laugh btw. Thanks all.


----------



## audiotech (Mar 16, 2012)

Back to the RCP and 'Easterhouse' who produced some fine tracks:


----------



## Das Uberdog (Mar 16, 2012)

yeah tbf, that is far better than the redskins. not that the RCP lot will ever have realised that on any meaningful level.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 16, 2012)

audiotech said:


> Back to the RCP and 'Easterhouse' who produced some fine tracks:




True, very good album that.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 18, 2012)

"In 1984, the party withheld its support from the striking National Union of Mineworkers, arguing that without a national ballot, the strike was doomed to failure.... In 1987, the party published its notorious pamphlet _The Truth about the Aids Panic_, which argued that HIV would never spread in rich countries beyond needle-sharers and practitioners of casual anal sex, and that Aids charities were just pretending it would because they liked interfering with people’s private lives."

Hahaha what a bunch of loonies eh?

Oh hang on...


----------



## Blagsta (Mar 18, 2012)

HIV has spread, the highest infection rates are among heterosexuals.


----------



## Greebo (Mar 18, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> HIV has spread, the highest infection rates are among heterosexuals.


Not helped by the amount of people assuming that because hormone implants and injections are so effective as contraception (don't get me started on that one), there's no need for condoms (or dental dams) even when not in longterm relationships.

Also not helped by ignorance about the quality of life you have once HIV+ even if treated early.  Okay, it's no longer a death sentence within a few years, but spending the rest of your life taking large amounts of tablets with very unpleasant side effects is hardly pleasant.

BTW there are people who became HIV+ after blood transfusions, or from their mothers, or being treated for haemophilia.  To imply that HIV is something which only gay men and needle-using drug addicts need to worry about isn't just wrong, it's dangerous.


----------



## Red Cat (Mar 18, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> From Falafels to Fourth International - Lindseys Germans Good Food Tour


 
Lindsay German would never have called women 'ladies'.


----------



## Red Cat (Mar 18, 2012)

phildwyer said:


> "In 1984, the party withheld its support from the striking National Union of Mineworkers, arguing that without a national ballot, the strike was doomed to failure.... In 1987, the party published its notorious pamphlet_The Truth about the Aids Panic_, which argued that HIV would never spread in rich countries beyond needle-sharers and practitioners of casual anal sex, and that Aids charities were just pretending it would because they liked interfering with people’s private lives."
> 
> Hahaha what a bunch of loonies eh?
> 
> Oh hang on...


 

AIDS charities were in part a response to community activism beginning in the early 1980s, especially in San Francisco. 

As for rich and poor countries - there's migration between these countries isn't there?  Movement of people, who have relationships with eachother.


----------



## Knotted (Mar 18, 2012)

Are they still pushing the contrarian stuff about HIV, climate change, Serbian war crimes etc? I don't pay them much attention these days - they seem to have settled down to become fairly ordinary centre-right political commentators.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 18, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> HIV has spread, the highest infection rates are among heterosexuals.


 
Nothing like what was predicted.  The way the disease has (failed to) spread in the West has most definitely defied the conventional or 'official' wisdom that was being peddled in the 1980s.

The truth, as it turns out, is that it's almost impossible for a man to catch it from vaginal sex.  That's not we were told, not by a long shot.


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2012)

fuck off dwyer, there's a good little turd


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 18, 2012)

Belboid's world rocked again.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

bellcheese can't formulate a decent response for toffee.

Dwyer has got at least the germ of a point on this, hasn't he?

Good name, Phil, I reckon I could cope with being called Phil. One can't imagine a guy called Phil ever getting into a flap, nah, Phil can handle it


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2012)

phildwyer said:


> Belboid's world rocked again.


you couldn't rock a rocking horse phil, not with your sixth hand reactionary drivel. but at least you've got little frany involved too, the two of you repeat bannee's should be very happy together


----------



## Greebo (Mar 18, 2012)

phildwyer said:


> <snip>The truth, as it turns out, is that it's almost impossible for a man to catch it from vaginal sex. That's not we were told, not by a long shot.


Still possible to transmit it though.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 18, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Still possible to transmit it though.


 
True.  Which is why it was a good idea to _tell _heterosexual men that they could catch it by vaginal sex, even if it was a bit of a fib.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> bellcheese can't formulate a decent response for toffee.


 
So I'd noticed.

One suspects that catching HIV--at least by sexual means--is one of the few things Belboid doesn't have to worry about.

Not that this prevents him from spouting off on the subject at every opportunity of course.


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2012)

true, because I am in a longstanding, happy, relatonship with a real person, something you two miserable failures have never managed, for quite obvious reasons.

And, the RCP's reasons fpr not believing heterosexual men wouldnt get AIDS was absolutely nothing to do with actual facts about how the diesease was transmitted.  They did it, well, bascially for the same reason as phil, to try to get themselves noticed.  Sad fuckers


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> you couldn't rock a rocking horse phil, not with your sixth hand reactionary drivel. but at least you've got little frany involved too, the two of you repeat bannee's should be very happy together


 

Let's hope one of us doesn't transmit HIV to the other though, eh?

E2A We'll have less of the little as well, thank you very much.


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2012)

I wonder how long it will be before you are banned again 'Frances'


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> true, because I am in a longstanding, happy, relatonship with the palm of my hand, something you two miserable failures have never managed, for quite obvious reasons.
> 
> And, the RCP's reasons fpr not believing heterosexual men wouldnt get AIDS was absolutely nothing to do with actual facts about how the diesease was transmitted. They did it, well, bascially for the same reason as phil, to try to get themselves noticed. Sad fuckers


 
Fixed for accuracy.

Sorry to degenerate this thread to such levels of moronicity, but it had to be done.


----------



## Blagsta (Mar 18, 2012)

Some facts

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/transmission.htm


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Some facts
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/transmission.htm


 
"are healthcare workers at risk of getting HIV on the job?" Snigger.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> I am in a longstanding, happy, relatonship with a real person


 
Your Mum doesn't count, weirdo.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 18, 2012)

mum digs are banned on mothers day


----------



## Greebo (Mar 18, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> mum digs are banned on mothers day


Fair enough.


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Fixed for accuracy.
> 
> Sorry to degenerate this thread to such levels of moronicity, but I'm an idiot with self esteem issues.


quite.  You've let mummy have a nice lie in now, so go ask her if she'll change your nappy for you, there's a good little boy


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> quite. You've let mummy have a nice lie in now, so go ask her if she'll change your nappy for you, there's a good little boy


 

Aw bellwhiff, you really are a worthless cock-whisperer, aren't ya? Can't even make up yer own insults? It was Dwyer who brought mums into it & what? You thought you'd take the (rugby, knowing you) ball an run with it?


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2012)

aah, the charming homophobia we all know and love. 

you and phil really do make a lovely couple


----------



## TopCat (Mar 18, 2012)

past caring said:


> Never mind all that. I made a fucking corker of a joke on this thread and not one of yous cunts "liked" it.


(((((past caring)))))


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> aah, the charming homophobia we all know and love.
> 
> you and phil really do make a lovely couple


 
It's  "Spot the Performative Contradiction Time..." again...


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> bellcheese can't formulate a decent response for toffee.


Hi. Here's how it works around here. If you act like a little boy by posting up insulting variants of a poster's name you get banned.

HTH. HAND.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Aw bellwhiff, you really are a worthless cock-whisperer, aren't ya?


Consider this your last and final warning.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

belboid said:


> aah, the charming homophobia we all know and love.
> 
> you and phil really do make a lovely couple


 

What homophobia? If anything, I'd say that your insinuation that myself & Phil were somehow a couple with the implied derogatory connotations that came with your assertion makes you the homophobe.

Just out of interest, when you picture me & Phil making love (which you have done, don't even try to deny), do you picture me adopting the insertive or receptive role? And what noises do you imagine I make?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Consider this your last and final warning.


 

Only just seen that. OK, no worries.


----------



## TopCat (Mar 18, 2012)

I thought this was a thread all about cunting people off??


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 18, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> mum digs are banned on mothers day


Mothering Sunday!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> mum digs are banned on mothers day


 
When you say "mum digs"....?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> What homophobia? If anything, I'd say that your insinuation that myself & Phil were somehow a couple...


 
....is an insult to you in and of itself?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2012)

nino_savatte said:


> Mothering Sunday!


 
"Mother's day" is better. It's less likely to make people thing that "mothering" means cussing someone's mum.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> ....is an insult to you in and of itself?


 

Oh, I don't know.


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> picture me & Phil


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

As long as it's understood - I'm the one with the sun on his jumper.I'm tough, me.

E2A - Yes, and I'm wearing a crown.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Mar 18, 2012)

editor said:


> Hi. Here's how it works around here. If you act like a little boy by posting up insulting variants of a poster's name you get banned.
> 
> HTH. HAND.


you let me get away with it for years!


----------



## Das Uberdog (Mar 18, 2012)

also should say that the miner's strike didn't fail because of the failure to have a ballot either


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> As long as it's understood - I'm the one with the sun on his jumper.I'm tough, me.
> 
> E2A - Yes, and I'm wearing a crown.


 
So phil's the Igor-looking fella?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> So phil's the Igor-looking fella?


 

Yes. And he's the stooper.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> Yes. And he's the stooper.


 
See, that comes across as a bit racist to me, 'cos the Welsh have often been stereotyped by the English over the centuries as stooping, muttering ne'er-do-wells who'd slit your throat as soon as look at you, and then sexually molest your corpse.


----------



## bamalama (Mar 18, 2012)

The rcp were a bunch of cultish wingnuts ,"franks got a plan...",aye a fuckin pension plan


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> See, that comes across as a bit racist to me, 'cos the Welsh have often been stereotyped by the English over the centuries as stooping, muttering ne'er-do-wells who'd slit your throat as soon as look at you, and then sexually molest your corpse.


 

Is Phil Welsh?  Mibbe I could mek him come in Welsh? He'll be wearin a dress an I'll call him Rhiannon.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 18, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> What homophobia? If anything, I'd say that your insinuation that myself & Phil were somehow a couple with the implied derogatory connotations that came with your assertion makes you the homophobe.


 
This has in fact been Belboid's well-worn debating tactic for many years now.  When contradicted, on any subject whatsoever, he simply accuses his opponent of being homosexual.

If he is feeling particularly vehement, as today for example, this can be accompanied by loud crowing concerning his own heterosexuality, often featuring extensive and obviously fantastic accounts of his alleged conquests.

As a debating tactic it has limited appeal, but perhaps Belboid's recourse to such methods tells us all we need to know about the audiences he is accustomed to address.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 18, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> When you say "mum digs"....?


 

I know a guy who gives his old queen a dig every day. His mam's bedridden with a tank of oxygen by the side of her, but she's been a baghead for years and she still wants her dig, so her son gives it her. They'll let you in their flat to do what you need if you give them a taste, that's how they both keep their habits. Be weird as fuck givin your own mam a dig though, wouldn't it? Ok people, though.


----------



## belboid (Mar 18, 2012)

really?  you must point me to one of those posts phil.  unless you want everyone to think you're just making stuff up


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 18, 2012)

Das Uberdog said:


> also should say that the miner's strike didn't fail because of the failure to have a ballot either


Indeed.
Also once the strike started anyone with any morality supported the strike even if they did feel that there should have been a ballot.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Mar 18, 2012)

as i say i know a few RCP types and not one can actually justify that defining position in an argument


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 19, 2012)

belboid said:


> really? you must point me to one of those posts phil. unless you want everyone to think you're just making stuff up


 

You wanna go to their flat? Christ knows why, maybe you've got some daft & misguided idea of tekin a walk on the wildside or somesuch. Bein realistic, it'll cost you at least 2 an one, better 2 an 2 though. I doubt the guy will show you him givin his mam a dig, though - It's not a fuckin ceremony.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Mar 19, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> You wanna go to their flat? Christ knows why, maybe you've got some daft & misguided idea of tekin a walk on the wildside or somesuch. Bein realistic, it'll cost you at least 2 an one, better 2 an 2 though. I doubt the guy will show you him givin his mam a dig, though - It's not a fuckin ceremony.


 
Is that supposed to be funny?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Mar 19, 2012)

No.


----------



## dancing bo (Mar 22, 2012)

> BTW there are people who became HIV+ after blood transfusions, or from their mothers, or being treated for haemophilia. To imply that HIV is something which only gay men and needle-using drug addicts need to worry about isn't just wrong, it's dangerous.


In Australia in the 80's (memory lapse on the date) the Government imported a batch of blood from the US where every single recipatant of a blood transfusion from this contaminated supply died from complications of HIV/AIDS.

April Fool's Day is a 1993 novel by Bryce Courtenay, his son Damon a haemophiliac, contracted medicly induced AIDS from the contaminated blood supply and died.
None of the patients had AIDS previously, but not one single patient survived the transfusions.


----------



## dancing bo (Mar 22, 2012)

> Nothing like what was predicted. The way the disease has (failed to) spread in the West has most definitely defied the conventional or 'official' wisdom that was being peddled in the 1980s.
> 
> The truth, as it turns out, is that it's almost impossible for a man to catch it from vaginal sex. That's not we were told, not by a long shot.


So, are you saying that AIDS is only the scurge of Homosexuals and injecting drug users? Or just disappointed that the rate of infection wasn't higher?

The reduction in the spread of AIDS was with all the Free Needle Replacement schemes and Awareness, Free Condoms and related equipment and supplies ... and of course, education.
Education for all those who may be possible candidates including Hetrosexuals.

The way you phrased your post reads very much like you have a Prejudice against certain sections of the community otherwise you would not be complaining about a campaign that worked (whether it was initially planned like that or not) less people died but some still have to find something to complain about.
Nice.


----------



## belboid (Mar 22, 2012)

No, he's just a shit troll who likes to draw attention to himself


----------



## treelover (Mar 22, 2012)

nice to see lots of new posters on here, unless they are just returners..


----------



## cantsin (Mar 22, 2012)

editor said:


> Hi. Here's how it works around here. If you act like a little boy by posting up insulting variants of a poster's name you get banned.
> 
> HTH. HAND.


 
Insulting variants on peoples name are funny though ?


----------



## audiotech (Mar 22, 2012)

Thatcher described the initial AIDS awareness campaign like 'writings on a toilet wall', but eventually came around to understand the importance of such an awareness campaign. The RCP were being their contrarian selves with their stance on the issue.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 30, 2012)

Found this fascinatingly irrelevant blog based around this studenty bloke living in a flat with members of the RCP. Its a minor  work of art, wish i had written it.

http://universitypseud.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=rcp


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Found this fascinatingly irrelevant blog based around this studenty bloke living in a flat with members of the RCP. Its a minor work of art, wish i had written it.
> 
> http://universitypseud.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=rcp


 
Fantastic must be someone who has posted on here at some point, if not they should.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 30, 2012)

Kate Marshall , former general secretary of the RCP. I vaguely new her when she used to go out with another RCP member called Nick Fielding.He became an investigative journalist but used to write for Shelter's housing magazine


----------



## treelover (Mar 30, 2012)

What does she do now, is she part of Spiked?


'From the early 1990s she pursued a career in housing and in the last few years has moved increasingly close to the Conservatives '
http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Kate_Davies


ah....


----------



## treelover (Mar 30, 2012)

Good grief, she works in the Centre For Social Justice and helped produce reports for Duncan Smith


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

Now Chief Exec of Notting Hill Housing and going by her original name of Kate Davies. Has written various pieces for Conservative Home and was chair of the Centre for Social Justice's "Housing and Dependency Working Group".

Another graduate of the University of Kent, I see - old Ferudi was really knocking 'em out.

So, basically, another tory cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> Good grief, she works in the Centre For Social Justice and helped produce reports for Duncan Smith


Imagine how bad they'd be if she wasn't there though.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 30, 2012)

treelover said:


> What does she do now, is she part of Spiked?
> 
> 
> 'From the early 1990s she pursued a career in housing and in the last few years has moved increasingly close to the Conservatives '
> ...


 

always was a bit of a posh bird


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

Not the one I tied to fuck, by the way - thought I'd better make that clear.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 30, 2012)

A friend of mine is ex-RCP - but she's also sane, sensible, now thinks that her erstwhile comrades were a cult, and remains on the left.

Looks like she's the only one of whom that could be said, though.


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

That'll be the one.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 30, 2012)

An ex comrade writes :



> When I was a student in Manchester in the mid-1980s I became a member of the RCP and Kate Marshall, as she was then, was a very prominent member of the party and wrote several books for them. At that time her partner was Mick Hulme who went on to be editor of Living Marxism and Spiked-online. Oddly, in 1992 I bumped into Kate as I was doing a post grad course at the University of Westminster (formerly Polytechnic of Central London) and she was on a (separate) course as well. She did say helo to me but I go the distinct impression she didn't really want to chat to me. Whilst most of the more prominent members (Mick Hulme, Frank Furedi, Fiona Fox) of the long defunct RCP continue to develop their brand of libertarian marxism, Kate seems to have completely jumped ship and decided to make lots of money and become friendly with rather unpleasant tories.


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

Though I think what you actually mean idris is that she's moved to the left.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 30, 2012)

past caring said:


> Though I think what you actually mean idris is that she's moved to the left.


 
The last time I dropped in on her and her husband we had great sport explaining to her 8-year old daughter exactly why "Tories are bad".


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 30, 2012)

past caring said:


> Not the one *I tied to fuck*,


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

Junius Publications - that was the RCP publishing house, wasn't it? Always got it mixed up Janus magazine.


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


>


 
Bollocks.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 30, 2012)

I think this lot are connected to those who were formally 'preparing for power'

http://www.manifestoclub.com/


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I think this lot are connected to those who were formally 'preparing for power'
> 
> http://www.manifestoclub.com/


Perfectly fitting name:

Josie Appleton


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 30, 2012)

great quote from Kate:



> every blow struck today to keep a nursery open, to hold union meetings during hours of work, for pro rata wage rates for part timers or against legal discrimination of women will bring real freedom that much closer. Join us in the fight for a new world!


 
mean while in her new world she is on £197k ( bet she was happy with the budget) and her partner..........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...50k-pension-lands-260k-job-keeps-pension.html


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

> Josie Appleton is convenor of the Manifesto Club, a British civil liberties group that campaigns against vetting, booze bans, photo bans, and other forms of state regulation of everyday life. She is a contributor to the _Guardian_ and _Spiked_.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 30, 2012)

past caring said:


>


 
The paedos on a beach best mate.


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

Still, when you're trousering close to £200k a year, I suspect it's true that there's only things like the local WI getting fined for flyposting left to worry about.


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

English Rose


----------



## imposs1904 (Mar 30, 2012)

Idris2002 said:


> A friend of mine is ex-RCP - but she's also sane, sensible, now thinks that her erstwhile comrades were a cult, and remains on the left.
> 
> *Looks like she's the only one of whom that could be said, though*.


 
There's a sound bloke on the Revolutionary History editorial committee who was a former supporter of the RCP. I remember him mentioning one time that when he joined them as a supporter in the late 70s, he was the first supporter/member without a University education. He's since got a PhD.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 30, 2012)

past caring said:


>


 
_Oxbridge but i deserve to be face. I used to listen to the jam._


----------



## belboid (Mar 30, 2012)

imposs1904 said:


> There's a sound bloke on the Revolutionary History editorial committee who was a former supporter of the RCP. I remember him mentioning one time that when he joined them as a supporter in the late 70s, he was the first supporter/member without a University education. He's since got a PhD.


Paul F?  It always surprises me he was one of theirs, as he is remarkably sane


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> _Oxbridge but i deserve to be face. I used to listen to the jam._


 
Yeah and look where Weller ended up, the cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 30, 2012)

He is ace. I'm on a list with him, he's sane, informed, informative and acute.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 30, 2012)

past caring said:


> Yeah and look where Weller ended up, the cunt.


Sending his 7 kids to private school. All hooks up.


----------



## imposs1904 (Mar 30, 2012)

belboid said:


> Paul F? It always surprises me he was one of theirs, as he is remarkably sane


 
nice bloke.


----------



## past caring (Mar 30, 2012)

Sorry mate but Sonik Kicks is shit. So was Wild Wood.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 30, 2012)

Despite being something of a bully, and whilst considered a senior cadre, Claire Fox never struck me as an intellectual powerhouse.

Her commitment to Party, to Campaign, to Institute, to whatever, always felt more about a means to an end, with that end seemingly being to let everyone know I am Claire fucking Fox.

The RCP had a superficially effective organising ability (all those conferences, all those papers and mags and leaflets, all so beautifully typeset and printed) but scratch the surface and it was just run like a typical municipal authority, albeit one with a rather efficient in-house printing service. Lots of rushing around for the illusion of busyness: the churning out of half-baked articles & speechification, all full of the latest buzz words - acting super cool for the team leader/section supervisor/boss/Big Frank - I'm-more-enthusiastic-than-you fawning - a Fast Track for the grooming of a chosen few meeting never-openly-specified criteria...

Fox fitted in to this perfectly, like a sour-faced school teacher who resented kids (which is, you know, quite ironic...): harassing junior members or associates; shouting down people placed under her tutelage; framing same-old-same-old ideas as box-fresh innovation; preferring aggressive assertiveness ("It WILL be like this!") over basic research ("Perhaps I should first check whether Government Building X will be open on the day I intend to call a demonstration?"); absolutely no sense of humility. But then, in this she was like so many senior cadres, mistaking being an ignorant arsehole for being a radical thinker.

As well as The Angle in Birmingham, they also had a similar meeting space-cum-bookshop in Kings Cross called The Edge.


----------



## imposs1904 (Mar 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> Found this fascinatingly irrelevant blog based around this studenty bloke living in a flat with members of the RCP. Its a minor work of art, wish i had written it.
> 
> http://universitypseud.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=rcp


 
That's a fascinating read.

I'd also recommend this piece by Don Milligan, who was a member of the RCP in the 80s.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 30, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> I think this lot are connected to those who were formally 'preparing for power'
> 
> http://www.manifestoclub.com/



Patrick Hayes did an approving piece on these for Spiked earlier this week so yup.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/12265/


----------



## treelover (Mar 31, 2012)

For some reason RCP/LM/Spiked, etc have got involved with the science(such as it is) and certainly the politics of M.E/CFS, they have established the Science Media Centre
which has become the conduit for disseminating and spinning research on the disease from a psycho-somatic angle and sadly has become the first point of call for journos. It's director is Claire Fox's sister, Fiona Fox...

baffled as to why though...


----------



## treelover (Mar 31, 2012)

What a bizarre blog, is it contrived or real, why has he done it?, anyway, anyone remember the Gulf War demo where the RCP revealed a Victory To Iraq banner in Hyde Park, i was amazed how many booted up cadres(maybe some paid?) they then marshalled to defend it, which when we confronted them, they tried to do so...


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 31, 2012)

imposs1904 said:


> That's a fascinating read.
> 
> I'd also recommend this piece by Don Milligan, who was a member of the RCP in the 80s.





> What is needed, is not attacks on this or that
> example of folly or mendaciousness, but a
> preparedness on the left to engage in a thorough-going
> analysis of contemporary capitalism and to determine
> ...


 
Which of course is a very much an ambiguous conclusion.
The social solidarity of working class communities to become the agent of history or
the social solidarity of a middle class would be intelligentsia from what they see as a dumbed up state that gets in the way of their lifestyle ?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 31, 2012)




----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 31, 2012)

treelover said:


> What a bizarre blog, is it contrived or real, why has he done it?, anyway, anyone remember the Gulf War demo where the RCP revealed a Victory To Iraq banner in Hyde Park, i was amazed how many booted up cadres(maybe some paid?) they then marshalled to defend it, which when we confronted them, they tried to do so...


 
That really does sound like the sort of spoiler tactic an MI5 pseudo-gang would engage in.


----------



## Paul Martindale (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks to everyone who took the time to visit my blog. And in response to treelover, yes, it is real. All of that stuff took place in the early 80s when I was a student at a southern university. I changed the place names and personal names to protect the guilty, as there's a bit of mild criminality and socially deviant behaviour here and there, and most of the people are still alive. A few of my friends were RCP and the members I ran into generally were narrow-minded, ideologically rigid c*nts who delighted in belittling and mocking us "students" rather than attempting to persuade. Often we deserved it, but often we didn't. Plus, the blokes all dressed like members of Joy Division. I was terrified of them, on the whole. I went to the IFM conference and march in Leeds in 1983 and the Afia Begum rally in Brixton in late 82. Most of the members I met back then seem to working at the University of Kent these days.

Thanks again.

-pfm


----------



## imposs1904 (Mar 31, 2012)

Paul Martindale said:


> Thanks to everyone who took the time to visit my blog. And in response to treelover, yes, it is real. All of that stuff took place in the early 80s when I was a student at a southern university. I changed the place names and personal names to protect the guilty, as there's a bit of mild criminality and socially deviant behaviour here and there, and most of the people are still alive. A few of my friends were RCP and the members I ran into generally were narrow-minded, ideologically rigid c*nts who delighted in belittling and mocking us "students" rather than attempting to persuade. Often we deserved it, but often we didn't. Plus, the blokes all dressed like members of Joy Division. I was terrified of them, on the whole. I went to the IFM conference and march in Leeds in 1983 and the Afia Begum rally in Brixton in late 82. Most of the members I met back then seem to working at the University of Kent these days.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> -pfm


 
Paul, cheers for a fascinating blog.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 31, 2012)

[/quote]


Paul Martindale said:


> Thanks to everyone who took the time to visit my blog. And in response to treelover, yes, it is real. All of that stuff took place in the early 80s when I was a student at a southern university. I changed the place names and personal names to protect the guilty, as there's a bit of mild criminality and socially deviant behaviour here and there, and most of the people are still alive. A few of my friends were RCP and the members I ran into generally were narrow-minded, ideologically rigid c*nts who delighted in belittling and mocking us "students" rather than attempting to persuade. Often we deserved it, but often we didn't. Plus, the blokes all dressed like members of Joy Division. I was terrified of them, on the whole. I went to the IFM conference and march in Leeds in 1983 and the Afia Begum rally in Brixton in late 82. Most of the members I met back then seem to working at the University of Kent these days.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> -pfm


 
Don't let imposs put you off


----------



## imposs1904 (Mar 31, 2012)

Don't let imposs put you off






[/quote]

Did my comment come off as sarcastic?  That wasn't my intention.

Btw, is that a picture of the redoubtable Mick Talbot? Are we all allowed to like Style Council again? It's been too long.


----------



## butchersapron (Mar 31, 2012)

No, too soon. Ask fed.


----------



## imposs1904 (Mar 31, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> No, too soon. Ask fed.


 
He looks like a beefy Vince Clarke in that pic, anyway.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 31, 2012)

Paul Martindale said:


> Thanks to everyone who took the time to visit my blog. And in response to treelover, yes, it is real. All of that stuff took place in the early 80s when I was a student at a southern university. I changed the place names and personal names to protect the guilty, as there's a bit of mild criminality and socially deviant behaviour here and there, and most of the people are still alive. A few of my friends were RCP and the members I ran into generally were narrow-minded, ideologically rigid c*nts who delighted in belittling and mocking us "students" rather than attempting to persuade. Often we deserved it, but often we didn't. Plus, the blokes all dressed like members of Joy Division. I was terrified of them, on the whole. I went to the IFM conference and march in Leeds in 1983 and the Afia Begum rally in Brixton in late 82. Most of the members I met back then seem to working at the University of Kent these days.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> -pfm


 
To be honest we used to go RCP baiting at demos and scare the shit out of them but your blog was well written and captured the mood at the time. Back to the suburbs for them ;forward to the suburbs for the rest of us.


----------



## Karac (Mar 31, 2012)

I remember meeting them in the late 80s -around the Poly of North London  -they reminded me of SWPers  on speed.
Very interesting and disturbing how theyve developed


----------



## audiotech (Mar 31, 2012)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Patrick Hayes did an approving piece on these for Spiked earlier this week so yup.
> 
> http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/12265/


 
"...what unites us all [at Liberty League] is we are all working towards having small state where people can live more independent lives and where power is given back to the individual’, says Shiner."

Milk and suger?


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2012)

Paul Martindale said:


> Thanks to everyone who took the time to visit my blog. And in response to treelover, yes, it is real. All of that stuff took place in the early 80s when I was a student at a southern university. I changed the place names and personal names to protect the guilty, as there's a bit of mild criminality and socially deviant behaviour here and there, and most of the people are still alive. A few of my friends were RCP and the members I ran into generally were narrow-minded, ideologically rigid c*nts who delighted in belittling and mocking us "students" rather than attempting to persuade. Often we deserved it, but often we didn't. Plus, the blokes all dressed like members of Joy Division. I was terrified of them, on the whole. I went to the IFM conference and march in Leeds in 1983 and the Afia Begum rally in Brixton in late 82. Most of the members I met back then seem to working at the University of Kent these days.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> -pfm


 
Er, wasn't criticising it, its a work of art, just wondered about its provenance...


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2012)

audiotech said:


> "...what unites us all [at Liberty League] is we are all working towards having small state where people can live more independent lives and where power is given back to the individual’, says Shiner."
> 
> Milk and suger?


 
Enemies of the People....


----------



## treelover (Apr 1, 2012)

any students on here? is this all bollocks, do they societies on every campus, this brand of libertarianism is dangerous, despite what she says, it leads to people cheering Ron Paul whe he said in the republican leadership debates that he would leave an unisured traffic accident victim to die, more toxic long term than the EDL if they grow...


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2012)

Karac said:


> I remember meeting them in the late 80s -around the Poly of North London -they reminded me of SWPers on speed.
> Very interesting and disturbing how theyve developed


 
We put their book stall, and the RCP member staffing it,  in a lift at PNL when I was there in the mid 80s


----------



## sihhi (Jan 25, 2013)

The annoyingly non-ending media bubble phenomenon of the RCP continues.

1 There is now a 'watch' blog dedicated to them called RCPWatch http://rcpwatch.wordpress.com

2 Brendan O'Neill really has outdone himself with this.

Only one person is responsible for Aaron Swartz's death, and that is Aaron Swartz



> The politicisation of suicide is a cowards' game, yet sadly it happens a lot these days. Activists opposed to David Cameron's welfare cuts claim he is pushing the poor and disabled towards suicide, effectively killing them by taking some of their money away. When Jacintha Saldanha, the nurse caught up in the Australian DJs / Kate Middleton hoax phone-call, committed suicide, that was held up by some as hard evidence that low-rent, tabloid-style media outlets can harm individuals and society. There is a strong whiff of moral blackmail in this politicisation of suicide, where the message is in essence "Stop cutting welfare or people will die", or "Stop making prank calls or people will die". Pushing suicides to the forefront of political or moral campaigns takes opportunism to a new, unprecedented low.


 
'There's no jobs our Adam Smith Institute mates screwed that up, let us know cut benefits in peace.

3 Over the summer I heard Claire Fox arguing against hosepipe bans on account of them being a 'moral panic' and each human had their own moral personhood to determine the appropriate level of water usage and doesn't everyone pay water bills anyway?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jan 27, 2013)

Nice bump 

That anti-hosepipe ban thing fits in with them being climate change deniers, also.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 27, 2013)

treelover said:


> any students on here? is this all bollocks, do they societies on every campus, this brand of libertarianism is dangerous, despite what she says, it leads to people cheering Ron Paul whe he said in the republican leadership debates that he would leave an unisured traffic accident victim to die, more toxic long term than the EDL if they grow...


No, they don't have much of a presence at the post-1992 universities. The only one at which they have a presence is Oxford Brookes. Back in the 80s, itwas once known as the most right-wing poly. So no surprise there.

You can find their student network here
http://uklibertyleague.org/network/students/

I had some chinless wonder from the Lib League tell me that some "left anarchists" attended one of their meetings at Manchester Uni. When I pointed out that the anarchists that I knew wouldn't be seen dead associating with a network that included the ASI and The Freedom Association, I got no reply. The same person also claimed that the IoI and Spiked were "left libertarians".


----------



## eoin_k (Feb 28, 2013)

Circulated for your derision.



> Dear All,
> Do you have a passion for the greatest works in the classical, literary, historical and philosophical canon? Does the idea of grappling with the complexities of human nature through the works of Cicero and Plato, Thomas Hobbes and Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Franz Kafka and Thomas Mann, Sigmund Freud and Friedrich Nietzsche, appeal to you? Would you like to spend a long summer weekend in a stimulating and open environment, with interesting, like minded people from all walks of life? If so, then *The Academy*, organised by the *Institute of Ideas* is definitely for you.
> We are aware that the full price of the weekend may be a challenge for students, so for the second consecutive year, we will be running the *Academy Scholarship Programme,* which is open to *full time university students* of any academic discipline. The scholarship will allow successful applicants to attend the Academy weekend for a fraction of the price.
> *The Institute of Ideas Academy* is a three day residential retreat from *Friday 19 July to Monday 22 July*, in which we aim to get away from the overly prescriptive nature of education in society today, and be unashamedly esoteric and intellectual for a weekend, in the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake. This year, there are three parallel lecture series on *Classics, Literature and History* as well as a plenary*History of Ideas* series on the *Human and Nature.*
> ...


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 28, 2013)

eoin_k said:


> Circulated for your derision.


I found this in my university webmail inbox and I was tempted to make a sarcastic reply.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 28, 2013)

eoin_k said:


> Circulated for your derision.


 
Duly given:



> ...you will be joining *Institute of Ideas* members from every possible walk of life; from Professors and academics, to other students, Barristers, film makers and writers...


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 1, 2013)

sihhi said:


> 2 Brendan O'Neill really has outdone himself with this.
> 
> Only one person is responsible for Aaron Swartz's death, and that is Aaron Swartz


 
What a pathetically stupid article.

I detect the noxious influence of American libertarianism, still a reliable lure for half-wits after all these years.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 1, 2013)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Patrick Hayes did an approving piece on these for Spiked earlier this week so yup.
> 
> http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/12265/


 
My God, just when I thought we´d plumbed the utter depths of stupidity, _this _pops up.

This really is _pathetically _stupid.

´Howes, like an entrepreneur, explains that the reason for establishing the Liberty League was a case of supply and demand: ‘There’s a growing demand for an end to interference in people’s lives. More and more people are getting annoyed with the state, but they might not necessarily pin it on the state at the start.’ This is where Liberty League comes in.¨´

_Like an entrepreneur.  __Supply and demand.  _Morons.


----------



## phildwyer (Mar 1, 2013)

nino_savatte said:


> I found this in my university webmail inbox and I was tempted to make a sarcastic reply.


 
That was a close one.


----------



## treelover (Mar 1, 2013)

Furedi was on the 'the big question' last sunday...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 1, 2013)

treelover said:


> Furedi was on the 'the big question' last sunday...


Was the question in question "why are you so fucking boring?", and was his answer very tedious and extended?


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 16, 2014)

Brendan O'Neill's latest smear.


> Why are Western liberals always more offended by Israeli militarism than by any other kind of militarism? It’s extraordinary. France can invade Mali and there won’t be loud, rowdy protests by peaceniks in Paris. David Cameron, backed by a whopping 557 members of parliament, can order airstrikes on Libya and British leftists won’t give over their Twitterfeeds to publishing gruesome pics of the Libyan civilians killed as a consequence. President Obama can resume his drone attacks in Pakistan, killing 13 people in one strike last month, and Washington won’t be besieged by angry anti-war folk demanding ‘Hands off Pakistan’.
> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...n-this-rage-against-israel/15400#.U8aiwPldXng



He doesn't get out much. For O'Neill, anyone who is on the Left is a "liberal". I knew loads of people who were against Hollande's adventure in Mali. The man is a fool.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 16, 2014)

Furedi on Newsnight last week. He completely misses the point about child sexual abuse. We're not talking about kids being abducted from playgrounds, but kids from children's homes being used for the vile pleasure of adults who discard these kids like chucking a fag end on the pavement.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2014)

Furedi was abysmal on Newsnight.  When Christine Odone outwits you, you know you're in trouble.  Or you should, anyway.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 16, 2014)

belboid said:


> Furedi was abysmal on Newsnight.  When Christine Odone outwits you, you know you're in trouble.  Or you should, anyway.


That's what I thought. I don't normally like Odone (I find her irritating), but she was on the money.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> That's what I thought. I don't normally like Odone (I find her irritating), but she was on the money.


I think even Furedi knew he was talking rot.  he has one basic point - these inquiries take ages to let everything go off the boil - which is perfectly fair enough, but as for the rest of it.....

And has he had a stroke?  I was sure I'd heard him before, speaking rather more clearly.


----------



## cantsin (Jul 16, 2014)

Furedi seems to thinks the Oratory expose re: them being caught red handed by Ofsted selecting predominantly white middle class pupils ( big surprise, but sickening still  ) is just them selecting on basis of Catholicism , despite all evidence to the contrary : 

*Frank Furedi* ‏@Furedibyte  9h
Gosh a Catholic school discriminates in favour of Catholics! London Oratory ordered to change its admissions policy http://bbc.in/1l12h61

http://bit.ly/1rg5Yw2


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 17, 2014)

Heard Claire Fox calling for the abolition of the NHS on the radio recently. How radical, supporting government policy.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 17, 2014)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Heard Claire Fox calling for the abolition of the NHS on the radio recently. How radical, supporting government policy.


Well, when she was a teacher she was always banging on about how much she hated kids. Probably why Füredi put her in charge of the youth wing


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 17, 2014)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Heard Claire Fox calling for the abolition of the NHS on the radio recently. How radical, supporting government policy.


Very libertarian, I'd say.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 27, 2014)

Eddie Munster manages to smear both the left and those who oppose Israel's actions.


> However, it seems pretty clear to me that much of the left in Europe and America is becoming more anti-Semitic, or at least risks falling into the trap of anti-Semitism, sometimes quite thoughtlessly. In the language it uses, in the ideas it promotes, in the way in which it talks about the modern world, including Israel, much of the Left has adopted a style of politics that has anti-Semitic undertones, and sometimes overtones. The key problem has been the Left’s embrace of conspiratorial thinking, its growing conviction that the world is governed by what it views as uncaring “cabals”, “networks”, self-serving lobbyists and gangs of bankers, all of which has tempted it to sometimes turn its attentions towards those people who historically were so often the object and the target of conspiratorial thinking – the Jews.
> 
> Yes, one can hate Israel’s attack on Gaza without hating the Jews. But there’s no denying that the hatred being expressed for Israel’s attack on Gaza is _different_ to the opposition to all other acts of militarism in recent times. Just compare the huge 2003 Hyde Park demo against the Iraq War with the recent London demos against Israel’s attack on Gaza. The former had an air of resignation; it expressed a mild, middle-class sense of disappointment with Tony Blair, through safe, soft slogans like “Not In My Name”. The latter, by contrast, have been fiery and furious, with screeching about murder and mayhem and demands that the Israeli ambassador to the UK be booted out. Some attendees have held up placards claiming that Zionists control the British media while others have accused both London and Washington of “grovelling” before an apparently awesomely powerful Israeli Lobby.
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/b...ft-anti-semitic-sadly-it-is-heading-that-way/



What a cunt.


----------



## hipipol (Jul 27, 2014)

Judging by the various bits of other peoples direct exp with these idiots mentioned on this thread and the "writings" posted here they seem to hanker after a very rigid, categorized world that brooks no argument
What a pity Sparta no longer exists
Perhaps they can buy some land and build one themselves


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 28, 2014)

O'Neill's turned the comments off.


> Comments for this thread are now closed.



He can dish it out but he can't take it.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Jul 28, 2014)

It's actually quite interesting that the post-RCP wankers have slowly been adopting right-contrarian stupidities on this sort of question. The only part of their leftism that had mostly survived their libertarian-crank turn was their strident naive anti-imperialism.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 28, 2014)

It's probably been asked earlier in the thread but has anyone written a decent article or paper which analyses the move from RCP to IoI?


----------



## killer b (Jul 28, 2014)

there's that LRB piece which certainly touches on it: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n13/jenny-turner/who-are-they


----------



## cantsin (Jul 28, 2014)

killer b said:


> there's that LRB piece which certainly touches on it: http://www.lrb.co.uk/v32/n13/jenny-turner/who-are-they


comprehensive piece that


----------



## DairyQueen (Jul 29, 2014)

Over time, I have come to think of these people as self-loathing Tories.  Surprised they are getting increased coverage on the BBC.  Would have thought there were better alternatives that could give an informed opinion.


----------



## belboid (Jul 29, 2014)

Is it increasing?  The idiot Fox has been on the Immoral Maze for years, O'Neill and others have been favourites of the right-wing press for, it must be, a decade.


----------



## DairyQueen (Jul 29, 2014)

Never noticed.  I knew O'Neill wrote for the Telegraph.  Can't say I remember what.  I don't really count the Telegraph as mainstream though.  Probably a little in part to people like O'Neill 'reporting' on the day events somewhat diminishes the brand.

Just read about Moral Maze.  Thanks for informing me that this programme exists.  I predict it will be even worse than I am currently imagining it, so will probably give it a miss.


----------



## killer b (Jul 29, 2014)

the telegraph is the biggest selling broadsheet in the country ffs. it defines (a certain kind of) mainstream.


----------



## DairyQueen (Jul 29, 2014)

Sorry for the tangent.

http://www.ipsos-mori.com/DownloadPublication/240_sri_you_are_what_you_read_042005.pdf

_*Newspaper readership by voting intention
*_
*Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat
*
GB (%) 35 33 22
Daily Mirror (%) 60 16 17
Star (%) 53 18 15
Guardian (%) 46 6 37
Sun (%) 41 32 13
Independent (%) 35 13 39
Express (%) 27 46 17
Times (%) 27 39 28
Financial Times (%) 25 43 24
Mail (%) 21 55 16
Daily Telegraph (%) 16 63 16
None (%) 35 28 26

The report is quite interesting... but, back to the point, you're looking at the Tory hipster movement.


----------



## belboid (Jul 29, 2014)

DairyQueen said:


> Just read about Moral Maze.  Thanks for informing me that this programme exists.  I predict it will be even worse than I am currently imagining it, so will probably give it a miss.


Jimmy Savile repeats are less offensive


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 29, 2014)

Fox would probably call off the post Savile "witch hunt" on the Moral Maze. Disturbingly she sounds just like Owen Jones when she speaks on that programme.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 29, 2014)

killer b said:


> the telegraph is the biggest selling broadsheet in the country ffs. it defines (a certain kind of) mainstream.




come the day the subscriber list will serve as a handy shortlist of those due a tribunal


----------



## belboid (Jul 29, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Fox would probably call off the post Savile "witch hunt" on the Moral Maze.


In one!

*CLAIRE FOX: Sex abuse is just an excuse to attack the Church*


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 29, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Fox would probably call off the post Savile "witch hunt" on the Moral Maze. Disturbingly she sounds just like Owen Jones when she speaks on that programme.




Just how they sound? Take it you're not making a direct political comparison there


----------



## marty21 (Jul 29, 2014)

I came across this lot in the late 80s  early 90s I think. I went to a film festival  and gave them by contact details  they plagued me with phone calls for about a year, it was always a different person ringing though, eventually after me telling various people I wasn't interested , the final caller said 'you don't seem to be interested in us'  'we won't call you again'


----------



## marty21 (Jul 29, 2014)

loving this thread by the way - missed it first time around -


----------



## killer b (Jul 29, 2014)

I'm deeply suspicious of anything the ex-RCP might be involved in - I spotted Ann Furedi's name in this article a friend linked to this morning and immediately assumed there was more to it than is obvious. Anyone? http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ancy-mother-forced-pay-child-damages-drinking


----------



## DairyQueen (Jul 29, 2014)

Took a look at the British Pregnancy Advisory Service...



> *bpas* also provides specialist contact centre services to the NHS such as Central Booking Services which speeds up access to abortion treatment across a range of NHS and agency providers. In addition, *bpas* offers online STI testing, online treatment and advice for erectile dysfunction.



Its a private contractor for NHS.  Anne Furedi runs it.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 30, 2014)

killer b said:


> I'm deeply suspicious of anything the ex-RCP might be involved in



You posted up that Kenan Malik article on FB with nary a critical arch of the eyebrow


----------



## belboid (Jul 30, 2014)

killer b said:


> I'm deeply suspicious of anything the ex-RCP might be involved in - I spotted Ann Furedi's name in this article a friend linked to this morning and immediately assumed there was more to it than is obvious. Anyone? http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ancy-mother-forced-pay-child-damages-drinking


I think that piece is pretty much just as it reads. It's a pretty straight forward issue really, anyone sane would be with BPAS on that


----------



## killer b (Jul 30, 2014)

DaveCinzano said:


> You posted up that Kenan Malik article on FB with nary a critical arch of the eyebrow


I only noticed it was a speech at an IoI event some time after.  

Is Malik RCP? he seems very sane...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 30, 2014)

killer b said:


> I only noticed it was a speech at an IoI event some time after.
> 
> Is Malik RCP? he seems very sane...


He was RCP, yes


----------



## killer b (Jul 30, 2014)

How does that work then? how come he isn't a raging arsehole?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 30, 2014)

killer b said:


> How does that work then? how come he isn't a raging arsehole?


Stopped clocks, etc. And who are you calling a raging arsehole?!


----------



## killer b (Jul 30, 2014)

are you RCP? I thought you had to be a sharp dresser??


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 30, 2014)

killer b said:


> are you RCP? I thought you had to be a sharp dresser??


Harsh but fair


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jul 30, 2014)

I thought you just hung around them, I bet they are Cinzano drinkers though


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 1, 2014)

belboid said:


> In one!
> 
> *CLAIRE FOX: Sex abuse is just an excuse to attack the Church*


Her mind is like an abandoned car park.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 1, 2014)

Missed this thread. Very interesting reading.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2014)

what is the story of the Red Front or whatever it was called? Involving RCP and Red Action among others I seem to remember...

Joe Reilly love detective


Edited first question as got the wrong Hayes lol


----------



## Theisticle (Aug 1, 2014)

Useful reads: 

http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Revolutionary_Communist_Party
http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/LM_network


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Patrick Hayes at Southampton Uni (or is it Southampton Solent Uni?), he's obviously ex-RCP and does stuff for Spiked, but also wrote the blurb on the back of Beating the Fascists, I assume he's still friendly with some of the BtF people?
> 
> Also what is the story of the Red Front or whatever it was called? Involving RCP and Red Action among others I seem to remember...
> 
> Joe Reilly love detective


You mean the electoral agreement thing?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2014)

This is an interesting article on the Modern Movement, who I remember having some time for at the time

http://necessaryagitation.wordpress...the-continuity-revolutionary-communist-party/

ETA: from the links that theisticle posted above


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> You mean the electoral agreement thing?



Yes, just wondering whether people who were around at the time were interested in talking about the back ground to it, I'd like to hear what the RA opinion on the RCP was at the time...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2014)

Also just found another thing on that Powerbase article

They're running a Free School in East London

http://eastlondonscienceschool.co.uk/


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 1, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Also just found another thing on that Powerbase article
> 
> They're running a Free School in East London
> 
> http://eastlondonscienceschool.co.uk/


Get them early, eh? Kinell.


----------



## belboid (Aug 1, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Also just found another thing on that Powerbase article
> 
> They're running a Free School in East London
> 
> http://eastlondonscienceschool.co.uk/


RCP on science??!!  Jesus


----------



## Poi E (Aug 1, 2014)

Imagine the curriculum. 

Chemistry. The benefits of neonicotinoids.
Biology. How modern bees hide themselves.
Physics. Day trip to swim in the Sellafield cooling ponds.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2014)

Presumably they won't be doing CRB checks or vetting and barring of staff?


----------



## treelover (Aug 1, 2014)

Sense about Science and the Science Media Centre are attempting to dominate the 'debate' about M.E, its aetiology, shaping public responses to current research, etc.


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 1, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Presumably they won't be doing CRB checks or vetting and barring of staff?


They can't let things like proper oversight and regulation get in the way of their 'freedom'.


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 1, 2014)

Here's a classic from O'Neill


> *Why it’s now safe to say I love Marx*
> As a Marxist, I should be delighted by Karl’s coming back to life, right? Actually, the frenzied fad for all things Marxist makes me uncomfortable. Because what it really points to is the hollowing out of Marxism, the transformation of Marxism from a genuinely revolutionary, rattling ideology which enthused millions of angry, often armed people into something so safe that the chattering classes can muse over it as they consume their muesli and their morning paper. The reason Marxism can become mainstream, the reason it can be tweeted about and turned into a t-shirt for middle-class yoof to wear, is because the thing which once made it so terrifying to the rulers of society and to all “decent” people has now disappeared: that is, the organised proletariat and the prospect of their carrying out a revolution.
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100169490/why-its-now-safe-to-say-i-love-marx/



Wtf is he talking about? The commodification of Marx or something else?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 1, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Presumably they won't be doing CRB checks



Just CPB checks


----------



## el-ahrairah (Aug 1, 2014)

how is he a marxist?  he's never said anything other than petit=bourgeois reactionary nonsense as far as i can tell.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2014)

I think he's got a point though, elements of the ruling class are only giving the likes of Piketty and whoever it was in 2012 the time of day because their ideas are not linked to a mass movement that threatens their way of life


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 1, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I think he's got a point though, elements of the ruling class are only giving the likes of Piketty and whoever it was in 2012 the time of day because their ideas are not linked to a mass movement that threatens their way of life


The trouble with O'Neill is that he tends to bundle his points with a lot of other nasty shit.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> The trouble with O'Neill is that he tends to bundle his points with a lot of other nasty shit.


Absolutely


----------



## yield (Aug 1, 2014)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I think he's got a point though, elements of the ruling class are only giving the likes of Piketty and whoever it was in 2012 the time of day because their ideas are not linked to a mass movement that threatens their way of life


The Spirit Level by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett? No that was 2010. What was the one in 2012?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 1, 2014)

yield said:


> The Spirit Level by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett? No that was 2010. What was the one in 2012?



Can't remember but that was when the column was published

Eta: I mean Thomas Piketty now obviously


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 1, 2014)

not the affluenza stuff?


----------



## yield (Aug 1, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> not the affluenza stuff?


Oliver James? 2007


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 8, 2014)

This is an interesting site. This blog discusses the Moral Maze but what I found most interesting is how the blog's author comes under attack from what appears to be an LMer.



> “What really burns, though, isn’t that the programme producers allow them both on the show knowing full well, as just about anyone in the meedja knows, that they’re RCP to the core.”
> 
> ‘Are you or have you ever been a member…’ You should be ashamed of yourself. One the one hand, there’s dismay at the fact that former members of a Marxist political party have proven to be commentators of substance – enough to be invited to discuss current affairs at all levels of the media (although no-one’s quite matched your perspicacity, obviously). On the other, there’s a witch-hunt. Presumably your dream is to find someone – anyone – with the power to prevent ‘these people’ from ever being able to speak in public again.
> 
> ...



This one discusses the Modern Movement (another LM front) that prompts another attack from a cultist
http://rcpwatch.wordpress.com/2010/08/06/modern-movement-an-insider-view/


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 18, 2014)

The IoI's regular Battle of Ideas series discusses (not really) the [toxic] legacy of Ayn Rand. Like all IoI/Spiked events, this one also poses a question. They ask "Why is Ayn Rand so popular today"? "Why?" indeed. But I think we all know that Rand is only popular with_ some_ people, yet the IoI's phrasing of the question implies that her 'philosophy' is more popular than it actually is.



> Through a conversation about Ayn Rand’s novels _The Fountainhead_ and _Atlas Shrugged_, this session will explore whether Rand really is for the young, or whether she has insights that would be useful for all of us. After all, her novels are exciting, feature strong female characters, incorporate important humanist themes, and ask hard questions about, for example, the responsibilities of the artist and scientist in society.



And



> This discussion will explore whether Rand’s novels really are about selfishness _per se_, or whether there is something to be said for strong individuals who make up their own mind, holding steadily to ‘life’s better possibilities’.http://www.battleofideas.org.uk/2014/session_detail/8986



It's chaired by Mark Birbeck, who describes himself as an


> internet software and big data consultant



Here's what Mark says on his Twitter feed.



> *Mark Birbeck* @markbirbeck · Oct 13
> Ayn Rand liked Charlies Angels: "Three attrictive girls doing impossible things." - YouTube http://bit.ly/1qiXWhl



Holy shit! I'm sold!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 18, 2014)

I'm interested in hearing from anyone familiar with their IFM work in the early/mid-90s, plus anyone with RF materials they could lend me to read.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Feb 4, 2015)

The far right libertarian scum of 'Spiked' have just published a report on 'free speech' in UK universities. Apparently student unions banning advertising by payday loan companies is regarded as a serious violation of free speech by these crackpots... 

http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...rsities-spiked-ban-sombreros?CMP=share_btn_fb


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 4, 2015)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The far right libertarian scum of 'Spiked' have just published a report on 'free speech' in UK universities. Apparently student unions banning advertising by payday loan companies is regarded as a serious violation of free speech by these crackpots...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...rsities-spiked-ban-sombreros?CMP=share_btn_fb





> Banning an event, a speaker or a song – all cited as reasons for being graded “red” – is usually considered an act of censorship. But an equality policy stating that homophobic, sexist and racist language will not be tolerated also attracts a red rating


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2015)

> In research by online magazine Spiked,



So they conduct "research" now? Hilarious.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2015)

Only Brendan O'Neill could write something as truly barking as this. "Where's Je Suis Page 3" he demands. What a cunt. What a thick cunt.


> Well, there you have it, an answer to the question: ‘How long will it take for Britain’s political and media classes to go from saying “Je suis Charlie” to being their old censorious selves, celebrating the crushing of words and images they don’t like?’ The answer is 13 days. Not even two weeks. They couldn’t keep up the pretence of being in favour of press freedom for one measly fortnight. For yesterday, just shy of the second-week anniversary of the attack on _Charlie Hebdo_, the right bunch of Charlies who make up Britain’s illiberal liberal set were hollering ‘Victory!’ following reports that Page 3, the _Sun_’s daily serving of a scantily-clad woman, has apparently been put to bed. ‘_Charlie Hebdo_ is dead!’, shouted those French lunatics two weeks ago; ‘Page 3 is dead!’, yelp Britain’s chattering classes today.
> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/wheres-the-je-suis-page-3-movement/16477#.VNIoHyusXng


----------



## 8ball (Feb 4, 2015)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Apparently student unions banning advertising by payday loan companies is regarded as a serious violation of free speech by these crackpots...


 
This is really weird.  They could pick a million points about the weird ways of student unions but they can't see how they lose all credibility by focusing on something like this (I don't think advertisers should be in there anyway) or someone choosing to take Robin Thicke off the Union bar playlist.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Feb 4, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Only Brendan O'Neill could write something as truly barking as this. "Where's Je Suis Page 3" he demands. What a cunt. What a thick cunt.



It's the crux of the spiked position isn't it? Women being reduced to demeaning sex objects is 'freedom of speech', women using _their_ freedom of speech to try to end that practice is 'the crushing of words and images they don’t like' (likened to a massacre no less). Their whole modus is just a bully's charter - nothing to do with freedom of speech whatsoever. Usually best just to ignore, but when they make inroads into the media like this, they need to be challenged.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> what is the story of the Red Front or whatever it was called? Involving RCP and Red Action among others I seem to remember...
> 
> Joe Reilly love detective
> 
> ...


Powerbase has the lowdown.
http://powerbase.info/index.php/The_Red_Front


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 4, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Powerbase has the lowdown.
> http://powerbase.info/index.php/The_Red_Front


Thanks, I was more wondering why Red Action decided to get involved...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 4, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Thanks, I was more wondering why Red Action decided to get involved...


I suspect that some of the reasons would be best discussed offline, but I believe that up to the early 1990s at least some of the RCP's cadres and supporters, particularly in front groups like ELWAR and IFM, in some crucial respects shared politics with many AFA/RA activists in more ways than the ludicrous characters and positions symbolic of the late 90s _LM_ über-contrarian post-Party network would suggest. 

Certainly when seen against a backdrop of ‘the-state-must-act-against-the-narzees’ positions ascribed (not without good reason) to the three other main anti-racist fronts, ELWAR's on-the-streets attitude could certainly be seen as closer to AFA than not; and the Irish Freedom Movement's scepticism towards the Downing Street Declaration (amongst other positions) similarly placed it closer to some in RA than not (especially when considering the overlapping North London Irish connections). Or am I way off-beam?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 4, 2015)

that would certainly make sense, and I remember people in the old RA forum talking about WAR people they knew


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Thanks, I was more wondering why Red Action decided to get involved...


Ah, now that I can't tell you. I suspect it has something to do with Workers Against Racism and the Irish Freedom Movement.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2015)

Jeff Robinson said:


> It's the crux of the spiked position isn't it? Women being reduced to demeaning sex objects is 'freedom of speech', women using _their_ freedom of speech to try to end that practice is 'the crushing of words and images they don’t like' (likened to a massacre no less). Their whole modus is just a bully's charter - nothing to do with freedom of speech whatsoever. Usually best just to ignore, but when they make inroads into the media like this, they need to be challenged.


The only thing O'Neill didn't do in that piece was use the silly term 'feminazi'.

They confirm my hypothesis that right-wing libertarians are the product of bad parenting.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2015)

One of the smaller components of Red Front. I don't know much about them but they seem rather cultist.
http://www.rdg.org.uk/


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 4, 2015)

That's Dave. Just dave.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 4, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That's Dave. Just dave.


yeah used to be Steve as well, but he is now leading the international Socialist Network as belboid can tell you


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 4, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> One of the smaller components of Red Front. I don't know much about them but they seem rather cultist.
> http://www.rdg.org.uk/


Were they the chaps who always wrote up meetings in _Weekly Worker_?


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Were they the chaps who always wrote up meetings in _Weekly Worker_?


They had sporadic articles in _Weekly Worker_.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 4, 2015)

yeah they used to pay for space in the weekly worker to help them reach a wider audience


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 4, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> yeah they used to pay for space in the weekly worker to help them reach a wider audience


And how did that work out for them?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 4, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> yeah they used to pay for space in the weekly worker to help them reach a wider audience


people paid for space in the weekly worker?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 4, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> And how did that work out for them?


I'm sure it reached a wider audience than it would have by itself


----------



## killer b (Feb 4, 2015)

it probably doubled their readership tbf.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Feb 4, 2015)

withdrawn. Should read more.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Feb 4, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> anyone see Spiked's little survey the other day on "Freedom of Speech"/Universities where you can't play Blurred Lines in the SU Bar?



http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/rcp-spiked-ioi.290331/page-12#post-13702142


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 4, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> And how did that work out for them?



Not actually that stupid an idea for a two or three man band (now apparently reduced). The WW had a big readership amongst members and ex members of various left organisations, which is precisely the target audience of that sort of sectlet. It makes more sense than producing your own rag about the problems with all the other little left group. It's both cheaper and has much better distribution. Even better you don't have to get off your hole to sell it, as some other fool is doing the work. The problem was that the RDG contributions used to combine being boring and repetitive with being a bit mad.


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> The problem was that the RDG contributions used to combine being boring and repetitive with being* a bit* mad.


You're too generous.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 4, 2015)

belboid said:


> You're too generous.



Possibly. I found them so boring and repetitive that I quickly learnt to automatically skip them.


----------



## nogojones (Feb 4, 2015)

I've just noticed a campaign to ban Brendan O'Neill from campuses. fuck his free speach

https://www.facebook.com/events/932013066831285/?fref=ts


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 6, 2015)

nogojones said:


> I've just noticed a campaign to ban Brendan O'Neill from campuses. fuck his free speach
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/events/932013066831285/?fref=ts


They should also ban Claire Fox. She doesn't half spout a load of shite.


----------



## nogojones (Feb 6, 2015)

I think you'll find that a very wise person has made the very same comment on that page


----------



## 8ball (Feb 6, 2015)

nogojones said:


> I've just noticed a campaign to ban Brendan O'Neill from campuses. fuck his free speach
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/events/932013066831285/?fref=ts


 
They should ban anyone called Brendan _or _O'Neill, just to be sure.

Fuck free speech - _Je suis Charlie_ - Peace off.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 6, 2015)

Jeff Robinson said:


> The far right libertarian scum of 'Spiked' have just published a report on 'free speech' in UK universities. Apparently student unions banning advertising by payday loan companies is regarded as a serious violation of free speech by these crackpots...
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...rsities-spiked-ban-sombreros?CMP=share_btn_fb



When I was at university they spent a significant amount of time siding with the BNP against the rest of the left over whether fascists should (even when not standing in an election) be given a platform at the union.


----------



## 8ball (Feb 6, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> When I was at university they spent a significant amount of time siding with the BNP against the rest of the left over whether fascists should (even when not standing in an election) be given a platform at the union.


 
Who was inviting the BNP to the Uni?


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 6, 2015)

8ball said:


> Who was inviting the BNP to the Uni?



No-one. They asked to be allowed to hold a (public) meeting and were turned down.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 9, 2015)

Loads of documents in SpinWatch's Scribd account:

https://www.scribd.com/collections/2699325/LM-network


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/182342717/Frank-Furedi-Midnight-in-the-Century-Living-Marxism-Dec-1990

This article by Furedi seems to be the turning point, or at least it is near the turning point. The 1989 and 1990 "Preparing for Power" (!) public event programmes are basically those of a somewhat arrogant and slightly more intellectually inclined than most Trotskyist outfit. But between July 1990 and Dec 1990, quite a lot of the old stuff disappears and much (but not all) of the new course is settled. It's not so much that they have dropped leftist politics as that they have shifted from a radical optimism to a radical pessimism, which clearly lays the ground for entirely abandoning the left wing stuff over the next few years.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> http://www.scribd.com/doc/182342717/Frank-Furedi-Midnight-in-the-Century-Living-Marxism-Dec-1990
> 
> This article by Furedi seems to be the turning point, or at least it is near the turning point. The 1989 and 1990 "Preparing for Power" (!) public event programmes are basically those of a somewhat arrogant and slightly more intellectually inclined than most Trotskyist outfit. But between July 1990 and Dec 1990, quite a lot of the old stuff disappears and much (but not all) of the new course is settled. It's not so much that they have dropped leftist politics as that they have shifted from a radical optimism to a radical pessimism, which clearly lays the ground for entirely abandoning the left wing stuff over the next few years.



I think 'radical pessimism' hits the nail on the head. That essay was one they were always banging on about in the early 90s.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> I think 'radical pessimism' hits the nail on the head. That essay was one they were always banging on about in the early 90s.



It's surprisingly short and glib.

The main thing that's notable is the arrogance of the late 80s material, the Red Front, the Preparing for Power conferences etc and the suddenness with which all of the confidence seems to disappear. Not all of the personal arrogance - they are still, in their new conception, the only ones capable of doing what's necessary - but the political confidence. It's no coincidence, I suppose that the Eastern Bloc was crumbling in that period and the dominant narrative was the triumph of capitalism.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

A month earlier, the next step devoted an issue to the departure of Thatcher. In a way it's a bit more substantive than Furedi's article in its pessimistic new take, but it still poses the answer as the building of a revolutionary party. And it argues that the destruction wrought by Thatcherism has "cleared the decks for the emergence of a new working class movement in the nineties". Not so in December.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/169146747/Next-Step-30-November-1990-No38


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

These two are the most prized parts of Spinwatch's collection, I suspect. Both are from their "Our Tasks and Methods" debate in 1996, just before the a RCP was formally wound up in 1997.

www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/72180002
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/72188623

The first, by "Fiona Foster", is quite frankly bizarre, all about the psychological benefits of RCP membership even now that their dreams have come to naught. There are lots of references to other people having adopted the "false critique", which seems to be a catch all term for what they see as irrationalist, anti-human or backward looking political or social views. To be blunt, it reads more like the kind of thing you find on sites devoted to exposing Scientology or LaRouchite documents than like anything I'd previously seen from the RCP.

The second is a one page piece on a particular attempt to "raise our profile in the bourgeois world", and is as close to a "smoking gun" as Spinwatch' and Co have ever found backing their view that the post-RCP are still engaged in a joint political project, through an organised attempt to influence "mainstream debates.

The problem with seeing the second document as a kind of "blueprint", explaining their behaviour since, is that it assumes a certain ongoing political and organisational continuity which seems a bit unlikely given how quickly they were evolving in that period. It shows that they did deliberately engage in an organised series of attempts to "raise our profile in the bourgeois world", in order to pursue their project of creating a new political subject (or perhaps more precisely creating the conditions where such a subject could emerge). But all of the preceding evidence is of an organisation rapidly swapping old ideas for new ones while at the same time spinning apart. How likely is it that they remained essentially stable and coherent for the following two decades?


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

"Fiona Foster" now has an OBE!


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 10, 2015)

Isn't "Fiona Foster" Claire Fox's sister?


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 10, 2015)

I still have a chuckle at "Preparing for Power". How fucking delusional was that?


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 10, 2015)

Look who's involved in this Spiked! organised event. Only Policy Exchange. 
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/events/#.VNpCJSusXnh

Then there's this pencil neck.


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> I still have a chuckle at "Preparing for Power". How fucking delusional was that?



They really swing from the most extreme optimism ("Preparing for Power") to the most extreme pessimism ("Midnight in the a Century") very quickly. This more than the abandonment of left wing views is the big shift. The left wing stuff gets dropped relatively slowly and unevenly over five or six years. Their 1992 election manifesto is still, for instance, straightforwardly socialist.

I can see why both of these approaches were attractive to some. Who wants to be in a sect that measures itself against other little sects rather than against the tasks it allegedly exists to accomplish? If you are going to devote your political life to a project, shouldn't it show some ambition? Then the violence of the pessimistic swing is partly explained by the intensity of the preceding optimism and ambition, but there is a reasonable kernel or two to their assessment of the state of the socialist and labour movements even as that assessment is exaggerated and used as a foundation for an obnoxious new project.

Yes, "Fiona Foster" is the sister of Claire Fox.

The part I'm most interested in is what happened to the membership outside of the old leadership and their inner circle of hangers on and useful contacts. There were no organised splits. I've very rarely encountered any ex- RCP people around the left. Yet quite a large sect went through a process of abandoning its ideas in favour of a new project, with little head for the existing rank and file. What happened to those people?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Feb 10, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Look who's involved in this Spiked! organised event. Only Policy Exchange.
> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/events/#.VNpCJSusXnh
> 
> Then there's this pencil neck.



What an absolute cunt.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> They really swing from the most extreme optimism ("Preparing for Power") to the most extreme pessimism ("Midnight in the a Century") very quickly. This more than the abandonment of left wing views is the big shift. The left wing stuff gets dropped relatively slowly and unevenly over five or six years. Their 1992 election manifesto is still, for instance, straightforwardly socialist.
> 
> I can see why both of these approaches were attractive to some. Who wants to be in a sect that measures itself against other little sects rather than against the tasks it allegedly exists to accomplish? If you are going to devote your political life to a project, shouldn't it show some ambition? Then the violence of the pessimistic swing is partly explained by the intensity of the preceding optimism and ambition, but there is a reasonable kernel or two to their assessment of the state of the socialist and labour movements even as that assessment is exaggerated and used as a foundation for an obnoxious new project.
> 
> ...


They've largely organised themselves into a loose network. Their taste for front groups has never diminished.

A couple of ex-RCPers (Barnfield and Calcutt) work at my university.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> The part I'm most interested in is what happened to the membership outside of the old leadership and their inner circle of hangers on and useful contacts. There were no organised splits. I've very rarely encountered any ex- RCP people around the left. Yet quite a large sect went through a process if abandoning its ideas in favour of a new project, with little head for the existing rank and file. What happened to those people?



There was a fun article about the Modern Movement possibly linked to on this very thread - I think it answers some of those questions

ETA it was me what posted it http://necessaryagitation.wordpress...the-continuity-revolutionary-communist-party/ 

Nigel Irritable


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> They've largely organised themselves into a loose network. Their taste for front groups has never diminished.
> 
> A couple of ex-RCPers (Barnfield and Calcutt) work at my university.



Yes, but that's the old leadership, inner circle and useful contacts from the rank and file plus newer people who were never in the RCP. It's the old RCP rank and file I'm asking about.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> Yes, but that's the old leadership, inner circle and useful contacts from the rank and file plus newer people who were never in the RCP. It's the old RCP rank and file I'm asking about.


I was always under the impression that the rank and file were referred to as 'supporters' rather than 'members'. The membership itself was rather small and consisted of Furedi and his inner circle.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Look who's involved in this Spiked! organised event. Only Policy Exchange.
> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/events/#.VNpCJSusXnh
> 
> Then there's this pencil neck.



Two Spiked young Tory types, someone from Policy Exchange, someone who left Policy Exchange to become an advisor to Boris Johnson, and, er, rather incongruously, Julie Bindell.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> I was always under the impression that the rank and file were referred to as 'supporters' rather than 'members'. The membership itself was rather small and consisted of Furedi and his inner circle.



I think the formal membership was bigger than that, but for the purposes of my question their distinction between supporters and members isn't that meaningful as "supporters" were expected to be more active and involved than members of most left wing groups.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 10, 2015)

The rank and file are still around and promoting IoI front groups for instance they have pro-migration stalls at events in Hackney...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> Two Spiked young Tory types, someone from Policy Exchange, someone who left Policy Exchange to become an advisor to Boris Johnson, and, er, rather incongruously, Julie Bindell.


I don't think Bindell's presence is incongrous she has been attacking intersectionalism and even the sensible wing of it for a while


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 10, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> I still have a chuckle at "Preparing for Power". How fucking delusional was that?


If you build it, they will come.


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> Yes, but that's the old leadership, inner circle and useful contacts from the rank and file plus newer people who were never in the RCP. It's the old RCP rank and file I'm asking about.


A friend of mine was in their student group. Now she's a suburban working mum  of two, and quite normal (still left, but not active).


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I don't think Bindell's presence is incongrous she has been attacking intersectionalism and even the sensible wing of it for a while



She doesn't like intersectionalists, but she also doesn't like Tories.


----------



## killer b (Feb 10, 2015)

Maybe @dave cinzano can help?


----------



## nogojones (Feb 10, 2015)

The only person I personally know who was involved with them pops up on my fb now and again denying climate change and wearing Bush for president baseball caps. Ever the contrarian


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The rank and file are still around and promoting IoI front groups for instance they have pro-migration stalls at events in Hackney...



Their successor organisations attract a supply of interns and aspirational younger people, who wear laminated badges at their events and usher people around and operate the microphones (well described in the LRB piece early on in this thread) and run stalls at appropriate events. But I'm talking about the original rank and file. The people who made up their branches in Bristol or Nottingham in 1988 or 1992. What happened to them? And I don't even mean where are they now so much as what did they do during the period when their party and then they themselves became more or less surplus to requirements?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 10, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Isn't "Fiona Foster" Claire Fox's sister?


That's the sausage


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> A friend of mine was in their student group. Now she's a suburban working mum  of two, and quite normal (still left, but not active).



When did she leave?


----------



## 8ball (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> ...I don't even mean where are they now so much as what did they do during the period when their party and then they themselves became more or less surplus to requirements?


 
Which requirements?


----------



## JimW (Feb 10, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Look who's involved in this Spiked! organised event. Only Policy Exchange.
> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/events/#.VNpCJSusXnh
> 
> Then there's this pencil neck.


For one glorious moment I read the subhead 'podcast' there as 'Posadist'.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

8ball said:


> Which requirements?



The requirements of the RCP's leadership.


----------



## treelover (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> *She doesn't like intersectionalists*, but she also doesn't like Tories.



They don't like her either.


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 10, 2015)

Probably in the early 





Nigel Irritable said:


> When did she leave?


Probably in the  early 90s, I think.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> Probably in the early
> Probably in the  early 90s, I think.



So actually during the change of ideology.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> Their successor organisations attract a supply of interns and aspirational younger people, who wear laminated badges at their events and usher people around and operate the microphones (well described in the LRB piece early on in this thread) and run stalls at appropriate events. But I'm talking about the original rank and file. The people who made up their branches in Bristol or Nottingham in 1988 or 1992. What happened to them? And I don't even mean where are they now so much as what did they do during the period when their party and then they themselves became more or less surplus to requirements?



some of them are still around or at least were during 08/09 check out that modern movement link I reposted on the previous page, also the people I met on their stalls in Hackney which must have been 07ish were typical old lefty types who had been around for years - you know the type. 

Some may have left since then, but I don't know. I'm sure many drifted away during the transformation, but I think more of them hung around than you might think. thanks to the front groups and the salons and forums etc - not to mention IoI is a membership organisation.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

I note that Kenan Malik, as well as standing for them in the 1992 elections, was the editor of the next step in the early 1990s when it was repurposed as an internal publication.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> some of them are still around or at least were during 08/09 check out that modern movement link I reposted on the previous page



That piece is interesting, but I'm not sure that it actually says very much about the pre-1997 rank and file. The people who were to the "left" of the IoI were themselves newer recruits.

I suppose that what largely happened was that the old rank and file was in decline anyway by the time the earliest parts of the "turn" are lauched by Furedi and Co at the end of 1991. If they were growing or even doing ok by that point, there probably wouldn't have been the same kind of abrupt turn. And that although lots of them didn't go the whole route towards the IoI and its politics, they were already steeped in the RCP's contempt for the rest of the left (indeed for anything political outside the RCP). And then they were influenced by both the general demoralisation of the left in that period and the RCP's extreme pessimism, which preceded the shift towards right wing politics. So probably not the kind of people you'd expect to try to form new splinter groups, a Continuity RCP, etc.

There was an ex-RCP member in my SSP branch in Glasgow. And Paul Flewers turns up occasionally in more academic-style internet discussions. But beyond that, I really don't think I've ever encountered a former RCP rank and filer in any left wing context.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> I think the formal membership was bigger than that, but for the purposes of my question their distinction between supporters and members isn't that meaningful as "supporters" were expected to be more active and involved than members of most left wing groups.



On this bit: The LRB pieces quotes a former member saying that when they hit 900 activists in the mid eighties it was divided into roughly 400 members / 500 supporters. So the formal membership wasn't just the central leadership, but it was a slight minority. That in itself is quite unusual - only Lutte Ouvrier that I can think of amongst even slightly substantial groups with a category of organised supporters or candidate members has more "supporters" than "members". Presumably this helped the leadership exercise tight control and also gave most involved an exciting sense of "hardness" and "discipline".


----------



## belboid (Feb 10, 2015)

I know one ex member, would probably have left in the early/mid-nineties.  Still a leftie, with a slight tendency to be as abstract as possible about issues.  I suspect most of them are just too embarassed to mention it to anyone, or have just left political activity entirely.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 10, 2015)

The Don Milligan piece earlier in the thread takes the view that the core leadership decided to jump back into bourgeois careers that their youthful activism had denied them, having realised in 1989/1990 that the revolution wasn't going to happen and certainly not under their leadership. And that the next six or seven years were about using the commies and socialists in the existing membership and the resources of the existing organisation to create a new periphery/milieu before said communists in the rank and file could be discarded with communism itself.

It's an appealing thesis, but I'm not sure how it really squares with the bewilderment of "Fiona Foster's" 1996 contribution. She sounds like a half deprogrammed scientologist, not sure what can or can't be saved from the old cause. She certainly doesn't sound like someone coming to the end of a well planned six or seven year scheme. In general, I'm always a bit sceptical of very "neat" accounts of any long term process that leave out confusion, stupidity and blundering about as factors.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 11, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> If you build it, they will come.


I could put together a piece of IKEA furniture quicker.


----------



## youngian (Feb 11, 2015)

When Littlejohn finally becomes the worst dead journalist instead of the shittiest journalist alive, O'Neill is a shoe-in to take over his putrid Mail column
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9432672/an-a-to-z-of-the-new-pc/


> *An A-to-Z guide to the new PC*
> From appropriation to zero tolerance, everything you need to keep an eye on while checking your privilege


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 11, 2015)

killer b said:


> Maybe @dave cinzano can help?


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 11, 2015)

youngian said:


> When Littlejohn finally becomes the worst dead journalist instead of the shittiest journalist alive, O'Neill is a shoe-in to take over his putrid Mail column
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9432672/an-a-to-z-of-the-new-pc/


That's what passes for 'satire' on O'NeillWorld. 

The comments underneath are typically ignorant.

Here's a sample.



> mohdanga  Ed  • 6 days ago
> It's ironic how non-whites complain about white privilege in the white countries they have chosen to come and live in, all the while receiving benefits from the white privileged host population who built white countries from nothing. Stay in your non-white countires, build them to the standard of living that white countries have and us privileged whites won't complain.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 11, 2015)

youngian said:


> When Littlejohn finally becomes the worst dead journalist instead of the shittiest journalist alive, O'Neill is a shoe-in to take over his putrid Mail column
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9432672/an-a-to-z-of-the-new-pc/


At risk of sounding like Alanis Morrisette, there is a certain wry humour to be had in O'Neill shilling such nonsense to a right-wing rag such as the _Speccy Twat_, given that one of the RCP's big things was how political correctness had been, in essence, a right-wing invention mocking the left (and subsequently taken up by municipal liberals in lieu of actually effecting social change). There was a whole conference devoted to the theme in 1993 - ‘The Perils Of Political Correctness’.


----------



## youngian (Feb 11, 2015)

And when in doubt quote George Orwell despite having never read him


> The Bogle • 6 days ago
> Isn't PC language the realisation of Orwell's Newspeak and a means of controlling how people speak and by extension how they think? Isn't one aim to limit how we think?
> No doubt, like History in "1984", PC-speak will constantly be re-written.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Feb 11, 2015)

Nigel Irritable said:


> The part I'm most interested in is what happened to the membership outside of the old leadership and their inner circle of hangers on and useful contacts. There were no organised splits. I've very rarely encountered any ex- RCP people around the left. Yet quite a large sect went through a process of abandoning its ideas in favour of a new project, with little head for the existing rank and file. What happened to those people?


 
A simple explanation would be that for those 'outside of the old leadership and their inner circle of hangers on and useful contacts' the RCP was a victory of style over content. Unless you were on the inside then there was precious little to hold on to...so you didn't.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 11, 2015)

Yep - membership is not really a useful concept to use in relation to RCP. At least if compared with classical small party membership. In fact _party _isn't really that useful either.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 11, 2015)

Quite. 'Cult' is how I'd describe the RCP and its successor grouplets.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 11, 2015)

youngian said:


> And when in doubt quote George Orwell despite having never read him
> 
> The Bogle • 6 days ago
> Isn't PC language the realisation of Orwell's Newspeak and a means of controlling how people speak and by extension how they think? Isn't one aim to limit how we think?
> No doubt, like History in "1984", PC-speak will constantly be re-written.



Someone hasn't read the Idiot's Guide to the Difference Between Past Events and Future Events.


----------



## Fedayn (Feb 11, 2015)

belboid said:


> I know one ex member, would probably have left in the early/mid-nineties.  Still a leftie, with a slight tendency to be as abstract as possible about issues.  I suspect most of them are just too embarassed to mention it to anyone, or have just left political activity entirely.


 
I was mildly pally with one of their former members name of Penny Lewis, she's now a lecture in Architecture at Robert Gordon university in Aberdeen. Another of their former members, and certainly from the same time as Lewis, is Dr Stuart Waiton, now a lecturer in Sociology at the University of Abertay in Dundee who is a regular on BBC/STV when various moral panics are being discussed. He has made a bit of a media name for himself over the Offensive Behaviour at Football (and Communications) Act 2012. He's seen as the go to Academic critic of the law.


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 12, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> At risk of sounding like Alanis Morrisette, there is a certain wry humour to be had in O'Neill shilling such nonsense to a right-wing rag such as the _Speccy Twat_, given that one of the RCP's big things was how political correctness had been, in essence, a right-wing invention mocking the left (and subsequently taken up by municipal liberals in lieu of actually effecting social change). There was a whole conference devoted to the theme in 1993 - ‘The Perils Of Political Correctness’.




In other words (surely not?!) 'Political Correctness -- My Arse'  ... 

Ie 'PC' was always or mostly made up all along ?

And was only ever attempted to be implemented by idiots, sometimes known as jobsworths, who imagined the media myths about 'PC rules' were true?

I appreciate the above ramblings are recycling of some very old posts on here by me, essentually ... Winterval, Baa Baa White Sheep, 'Christmas banned' etc etc etc etc. Counterfactual history the lot of em ...


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 12, 2015)

nogojones said:


> The only person I personally know who was involved with them pops up on my fb now and again denying climate change and wearing Bush for president baseball caps. *Ever the contrarian*



A description always, without exception, *exactly* synonymous with 'complete twazzock'


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 13, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> In other words (surely not?!) 'Political Correctness -- My Arse'  ...
> 
> Ie 'PC' was always or mostly made up all along ?
> 
> ...


People were always referred to as [ideologically] sound or unsound in the 80s but were never called "politically correct". But I'm sure you already knew that.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 13, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> A description always, without exception, *exactly* synonymous with 'complete twazzock'



Yep.  Like supporting the profit-driven raping of natural resources and military aggression towards the world's poorest is somehow a noble defence of the freedom to dissent from the majority, rather than simply a sign of being a fucking cunt.


----------



## laptop (Feb 13, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Look who's involved in this Spiked! organised event. Only Policy Exchange.
> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/events/#.VNpCJSusXnh



The thing that startled me most was a man from the Institute of Economic Affairs and Matt Ridley (not yet a Lord) joining in the RCP-cadre banter about armed people's militias, after drink had flowed at an IoI event that I went to check out...


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 13, 2015)

laptop said:


> The thing that startled me most was a man from the Institute of Economic Affairs and Matt Ridley (not yet a Lord) joining in the RCP-cadre banter about armed people's militias, after drink had flowed at an IoI event that I went to check out...


We're through the looking glass here, people.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Feb 13, 2015)

http://www.whatnextjournal.org.uk/Pages/Newint/Rcp.html

An insider account of the turn.


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 16, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> People were always referred to as [ideologically] sound or unsound in the 80s but were never called "politically correct". But I'm sure you already knew that.




That's right. The whole 'political correctness nonsense' came a bit later, a fictional contrivance, almost never anything other than completely made up, invented by the by the anti-Left and popularised by the (really) right wing media.

ETA : 'Back in the day', "loony lefties' was a more popular media form of abuse against similar targets ...


----------



## Das Uberdog (Mar 10, 2015)

Brendan O'Neill now uncritically interviewing Nigel Farage on sp!ked...

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...nt-and-they-hate-me-for-it/16758#.VP-AgvysXU8


----------



## Jollity Farm (Mar 11, 2015)

People that have to keep telling everyone what exciting rebels they are are usually the most predictable fuckers around. This goes not only for Farage but also all the Spiked people and any other similar tiresome controversialists.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 11, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> That's right. The whole 'political correctness nonsense' came a bit later, a fictional contrivance, almost never anything other than completely made up, invented by the by the anti-Left and popularised by the (really) right wing media.
> 
> ETA : 'Back in the day', "loony lefties' was a more popular media form of abuse against similar targets ...


hmm, I had heard (no I can't recall where I read it) that a lot of the PC stuff came from US universities- meant in good faith but adopted and applied in a way that managed to alienate. Not far off the importation of intersectionality.

All google throws up is articles from rw press pushing this line so I may be recalling wrong...


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 11, 2015)

Of the members I can remember one became a film/documentary director,another is chief exec of a housing association and one is a journalist/ author.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 11, 2015)

Das Uberdog said:


> Brendan O'Neill now uncritically interviewing Nigel Farage on sp!ked...
> 
> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...nt-and-they-hate-me-for-it/16758#.VP-AgvysXU8



Max Factor couldn't have done a better job.

From that article


> Ouch. But Farage’s barely disguised fury with the media is understandable. It’s hard to remember in recent years any other person or thing being the recipient of as much samey, uniform media bashing as Farage.



I think O'Neill's been living on Pluto for the last 25 years.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 11, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> hmm, I had heard (no I can't recall where I read it) that a lot of the PC stuff came from US universities- meant in good faith but adopted and applied in a way that managed to alienate. Not far off the importation of intersectionality.
> 
> All google throws up is articles from rw press pushing this line so I may be recalling wrong...




Not too sure about that, there's probably some truth in it, but whatever knowledge I have is almost entirely UK-specific (things here were markedly different I think, to what was happening over the Atlantic).


----------



## 74drew (Mar 11, 2015)

Is Tim Lott of the Guardian trying to rehabilitate this tendency here?



> *If leftwingers like me are condemned as rightwing, then what’s left?*
> 
> My stance on these issues makes some people in my “tribe” very angry. It is the anger of the pure believer towards the apostate. However, I can find echoes of my populist worldview in one strand of the left – that represented by the Spiked web magazine, which grew out of the ashes of Living Marxism and the Revolutionary Communist party, once known as the libertarian or anti-Stalinist left. Describing their philosophy as radical humanism, they poke and prod at the sacred cows of the left but from a socialist rather than a rightwing populist position. The fact that I enjoy Spiked – although I by no means agree with all of it – feels like dirty little secret. But that’s what the mainstream left specialises in: generating shame.



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/11/mainstream-left-silencing-sympathetic-voices


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 11, 2015)

That was an infuriating article. It wasn't even as if all his points (about politics more generally) were necessarily wrong, but I don't  think he has any real clue about the full Spiked story and agenda, judging by that piece.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 11, 2015)

I was going to post it in the "guardian going down the pan" thread.

First they came for the reactionary liberals....


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 11, 2015)

He's not even THAT reactionary IMO -- not about everything anyway! -- but he destroyed whatever his point was (and what exactly was that???) by bigging up Spiked.

Plus this utter straw man of being having his freethinking censored by groupthink. What a pile of made-up shit. If his friends/acquaintances are that censorious, he's got the wrong ones, so he shouldn't fucking judge everyone to the left of Spiked (that's everyone btw!) by that -- there's plenty of other lefties who'd be much better company (in parties/pubs!) and who have far more sense and nuance (and humour) to them, than he does ...


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 11, 2015)

I was gonna post this on this or the guardian thread too. Such a pathetic, whiney article:



> I am a “lefty”. I have voted Labour all my life. I believe in the abolition of public schools and the inviolability of the NHS, and that the renewal of Trident is a vanity project. I believe the state must work to ensure equality of opportunity for all: women, the LBGT “community”, those with disabilities, those of minority cultures and ethnicities, and the working class. The Guardian has been my newspaper forever. I was glad to see the back of the Sun’s Page 3, and I believe there should be more all-women shortlists for parliamentary seats. I believe immigration is more of a positive force than a negative one.



What an opening gambit. He's a 'lefty' because he votes labour, 'believes' things and reads the Guardian. What a titan of left...


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 12, 2015)

Jeff Robinson said:


> I was gonna post this on this or the guardian thread too. Such a pathetic, whiney article:
> 
> 
> 
> What an opening gambit. He's a 'lefty' because he votes labour, 'believes' things and reads the Guardian. What a titan of left...


It reads like a list of clichés; the kinds of clichés that the Right uses to smear the Left. Tories often tend to think that if you claim to be on the Left, then you're a Labour supporter. Fucking morons.


----------



## spartacus mills (Mar 13, 2015)

Jollity Farm said:


> People that have to keep telling everyone what exciting rebels they are are usually the most predictable fuckers around. This goes not only for Farage but also all the Spiked people and any other similar tiresome controversialists.



Most Thursdays/Fridays I look back at the week's news and I try and predict Spiked's headlines. I'm almost always right. I like to think that I'm some sort of super psychic like Nostradamus, Russel Grant or Mystic Meg but I'm beginning to doubt my awesome paranormal powers... I suspect you're right, they're the most predictable fuckers around...


----------



## treelover (Mar 13, 2015)

> One very key element of the liberal left has long been under threat: its liberalism – that is, its willingness to debate with anything outside a narrow range of opinions within its own walls. And the more scary and incomprehensible the world becomes, the more debate is replaced by edict and prejudice: literally pre-judging. Identity politics is one of the most significant developments of the last 50 years, but it has led to nerves being exposed in a way they rarely were by economic issues. *Because identity is less about politics and more about that most sensitive of human constructions, the protection of the self – both group and individual*.
> 
> The more scary and incomprehensible the world becomes, the more it is replaced by edict and prejudice
> 
> And the more it becomes about the protection of self, the less it becomes about the back and forth of rational argument. All the beliefs, opinions and doubts I hold are just that: they are ideas, not ironclad convictions. I am not certain about any of them, and am quite willing to change my mind, as I have done many times in the past. But I will not alter them if I am faced with invective rather than debate; in fact, they will become more entrenched.



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/11/mainstream-left-silencing-sympathetic-voices

He may be wrong about Spiked, etc, but anyone who has concerns about identity politics and the hold it is getting would concur with much of the above.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2015)

That article/link has already been posted at #441... and it's still shite.


----------



## LiamO (Mar 14, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> That article/link has already been posted at #441... and it's still shite.



why?

Explain.


----------



## nino_savatte (Mar 14, 2015)

LiamO said:


> why?
> 
> Explain.


Read #446 and work your way backwards up the thread. I'm in no mood to repeat myself.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 14, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> What a pile of made-up shit. If his friends/acquaintances are that censorious, he's got the wrong ones...



He should ditch them all in one go - easiest way would be to start a thread.



Das Uberdog said:


> Brendan O'Neill now uncritically interviewing Nigel Farage on sp!ked...
> 
> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/im-taking-on-the-establishment-and-they-hate-me-for-it/16758#.VP-AgvysXU8



Privately educated multi-millionaire banker takes on the establishment with his... pint.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 14, 2015)

8ball said:


> Privately educated multi-millionaire banker takes on the establishment with his... pint.



If you want to understand Spiked then read it as if it's an identity politics website but an identity politics website that argues for the identity politics of corporations and bigots.


----------



## purves grundy (Mar 14, 2015)

I had a crush on an RCP woman when I was a lost 1st year. Went to a few meetings. She was always amazing.

Lost touch when i finally made some friends, heard she went into advertising (which sounds quite 90s , as it was) but I like to think she makes some contribution to Spiked in her spare time.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 15, 2015)

J Ed said:


> If you want to understand Spiked then read it as if it's an identity politics website but an identity politics website that argues for the identity politics of corporations and bigots.



"identity politics of corporations"?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 15, 2015)

purves grundy said:


> I had a crush on an RCP woman when I was a lost 1st year. Went to a few meetings. She was always amazing.
> 
> Lost touch when i finally made some friends, heard she went into advertising (which sounds quite 90s , as it was) but I like to think she makes some contribution to Spiked in her spare time.


Goldsmiths?


----------



## laptop (Mar 15, 2015)

8ball said:


> "identity politics of corporations"?



Well.... since they won the right to be treated as legal persons, able to sue for defamation and so on...



[/legal technicality]


----------



## 8ball (Mar 15, 2015)

laptop said:


> Well.... since they won the right to be treated as legal persons, able to sue for defamation and so on...
> 
> 
> 
> [/legal technicality]



Remind me again when corporations won the right to be treated as legal persons in the UK* and also when _Spiked_ argued in favour of this.

* - actually it seems the concept is legally framed totally differently here though there are commonalities like corporations being able to enter into contracts etc. - nothing like the 14th Amendment going on, though.  what I really don't get is how to make "identity politics of corporations" mean anything.


----------



## laptop (Mar 15, 2015)

8ball said:


> Remind me again when corporations won the right to be treated as legal persons in the UK* and also when _Spiked_ argued in favour of this.
> 
> * - actually it seems the concept is legally framed totally differently here though there are commonalities like corporations being able to enter into contracts etc. - nothing like the 14th Amendment going on, though.  what I really don't get is how to make "identity politics of corporations" mean anything.



Who said I was talking parochially of the law of England and Wales? 

As you've discovered, something equivalent to the relevant Supreme Court decision exists in that law, but diffusely.

My choice of the possibility of defaming a corporation was a deliberate pointer to a _possibility_ of an identity politics... 

Though how you'd construct a hierarchy of oppression for corporations is left as an exercise for the reader


----------



## 8ball (Mar 15, 2015)

laptop said:


> Though how you'd construct a hierarchy of oppression for corporations is left as an exercise for the reader



Well yeah, I think this pretty much settles it.


----------



## purves grundy (Mar 16, 2015)

DaveCinzano said:


> Goldsmiths?


Nah, Sheffield.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Apr 2, 2015)

out of interest, years ago i saw a youtube link on another thread to the RCP's version of 'The Redskins'... something about October or something... anyway, they were good as i recall! anyone remember who they were?


----------



## killer b (Apr 2, 2015)

Easterhouse.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

...as mentioned on this thread even!


----------



## killer b (Apr 2, 2015)

it's a long thread tbf


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Were McCarthy RCP too?

Marxman were iirc, but they weren't very good!


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Were McCarthy RCP too?
> 
> Marxman were iirc, but they weren't very good!


The bloke was wasn't Tim Gane was i think.


----------



## belboid (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> The bloke was wasn't Tim Gane was i think.


Are you trying to say 'Malcolm Eden'?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

belboid said:


> Are you trying to say 'Malcolm Eden'?


Yes, that seems to be his name.


----------



## youngian (Apr 2, 2015)

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/get-the-cops-off-hopkins-twitterfeed/16833#.VR1SzfnF_h5



> Few people get up liberal noses like Katie Hopkins. Her commitment to a brand of no-nonsense individualism has landed her in various pools of Guardianista hot water, in which she seems to splash around with irreverent glee, upping the un-PC ante with each 140-character outburst.


 And the moribund sub-Littlejohn cliches get worse. Written Luke Gittos who is apparently the 'Law Editor'.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Apr 2, 2015)

whilst their commitment to upsetting liberals should be applauded, there really is no end to the shit that they will defend.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 2, 2015)

youngian said:


> http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/get-the-cops-off-hopkins-twitterfeed/16833#.VR1SzfnF_h5
> 
> And the moribund sub-Littlejohn cliches get worse. Written Luke Gittos who is apparently the 'Law Editor'.


Law editor? Fuck me, whatever next?


----------



## youngian (Apr 2, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> whilst their commitment to upsetting liberals should be applauded, there really is no end to the shit that they will defend.


They're not using the word liberal to debate the shortcomings of John Stuart Mill but in the Fox News loon sense; anyone to the left of Nixon.


----------



## Jollity Farm (Apr 3, 2015)

A world where "no-nonsense" actually means "a whole bunch of nonsense".


----------



## youngian (Apr 5, 2015)

Trolling today



> *UKIP haters: desperately seeking fascism*
> Following the demise of Britain’s far-right, UKIP has become the great white hope of anti-fascist groups.
> It must be hard when something that you’ve spent a good proportion of your life campaigning against simply ceases to exist in any meaningful way. All those hours tirelessly working the streets, handing out leaflets, organising protests; the millions of words you wrote and spoke in commitment to the cause. And then slowly you realise there is no longer any point: the Great Threat you’ve been warning about has gone.
> 
> This is the existential dilemma anti-fascist groups such as Hope Not Hate and United Against Fascism (UAF) must surely be facing given the decimation of the far-right British National Party (BNP) and now the implosion of anti-Islamic extremism group the English Defence League (EDL).


http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...esperately-seeking-fascism/14985#.VSEas_nF_h7


Yes UKIP has been around since the 1990s when it was a pointy head free market party led by Alan Sked. They would do well to seek Sked's views (not exactly a notorious lefty) of the sort of party Farage has moulded.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Apr 5, 2015)

that's pretty good, but not very original.  it sounds like something we've had on here before.  maybe one of dwyer's inspired musings.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 5, 2015)

There's some fair points in there.


----------



## laptop (Apr 6, 2015)

youngian said:


> They would do well to seek Sked's views (not exactly a notorious lefty) of the sort of party Farage has moulded.



Not difficult, either, Sked being neither shy nor retiring:



> *'The party has become a Frankenstein's monster' *


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 16, 2015)

-PING-


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 24, 2015)

Hilariously confused piece from Brendan O'Neill on the piggate thang. It's his faux outrage at the middle classes that made me laugh. It seems to me that anyone O'Neill doesn't like is 'middle class', even if they're not middle class. What a tool.
This Cameron 'piggate' furore is just pearl-clutching class hatred in disguise


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 24, 2015)

So O'Neill's on the side of the real oppressed - the poor posh boys who just want to have a lark.  Perhaps, to nip any future middle-class moralising in the bud and do the gentry's offspring and premiership footballers a favour all at once, he could print a list of all the things into which it's perfectly harmless and nonsexual to put your penis.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 24, 2015)

belboid said:


> Are you trying to say 'Malcolm Eden'?



Talking of which 

Interview: Malcolm Eden from lost 80s band McCarthy talks to Louder Than War about the long overdue reissue of their classic debut album, ‘I am a Wallet’.


----------



## youngian (Sep 25, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> Hilariously confused piece from Brendan O'Neill on the piggate thang. It's his faux outrage at the middle classes that made me laugh. It seems to me that anyone O'Neill doesn't like is 'middle class', even if they're not middle class. What a tool.
> This Cameron 'piggate' furore is just pearl-clutching class hatred in disguise


I thought O'Neill didn't like the middle class because they're 'liberals' who don't understand authoritarian instincts of English w/c people turning to UKIP and the Tories.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 25, 2015)

youngian said:


> I thought O'Neill didn't like the middle class because they're 'liberals' who don't understand authoritarian instincts of English w/c people turning to UKIP and the Tories.


As if the middle classes are some homogeneous mass.


----------



## laptop (Sep 25, 2015)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Talking of which
> 
> Interview: Malcolm Eden from lost 80s band McCarthy talks to Louder Than War about the long overdue reissue of their classic debut album, ‘I am a Wallet’.





> *Optic Nerve has just re-issued ‘I am a Wallet’, the classic 1987 debut album by one of the most interesting yet unheralded bands of the UK 80s post-punk indie scene, McCarthy. *



This is a sort of music Onion, yes? DrumThump? GlassOnion?


----------



## killer b (Sep 25, 2015)

McCarthy were great, stereolab sprung from their ashes.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 25, 2015)

Hugely underrated band and highly influential.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 25, 2015)

First heard about McCarthy on Urban actually, and yes, great.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 27, 2015)

A champion of 'free speech' and 'liberty' generally, Brendan O'Neill, penned this piece for The Dictator Spectator, which claims among other things that Corbyn is a man "against the people".


> The crusade against meat-eating sums up the mean-spiritedness of Corbynistas, and of the modern left more broadly. The creed followed by these folks isn’t Marxism — it’s killjoyism.
> Jeremy Corbyn isn't a man of the people. He's a man against the people - Spectator Blogs





> When it comes to naked elitism, vegans outdo Etonians every single time. When I addressed the Political Society at Eton in 2013 —



You addressed the "Political Society at Eton"? Say no more.

Fuck off, O'Neill, you miserable shitbag.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 29, 2015)

I reckon there's a team of writers at the IoI or Spiked that write for the Brendan O'Neill brand name. How does he find the time to churn out the same rubbish over and over again? Here, O'Neill compares Corbyn to Trotsky and discovers the two are nothing like each other. *sigh* You don't say. 


> As to the second part of Trotsky’s summary of the radical project — abolishing the power of man over man — Corbyn again does the opposite. For all the claims that Corbyn represents a massive break with the Blairite era, in fact he’s ploughing ahead with one of the worst innovations of the New Labour government: the politics of behaviour, a top-down attempt to ‘reinforce what is good and acceptable behaviour’, in Frank Field’s words. Corbyn was one of the first MPs to call for a ban on smoking.
> Trotsky vs Corbyn


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 29, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> I reckon there's a team of writers at the IoI or Spiked that write for the Brendan O'Neill brand name. How does he find the time to churn out the same rubbish over and over again? Here, O'Neill compares Corbyn to Trotsky and discovers the two are nothing like each other. *sigh* You don't say.


Now, who do we know that has been _exceptionally well-remunerated_ _outspoken _for expressing her anti-ban opinions?


----------



## treelover (May 11, 2016)

Martin Durkhin has just made 'Brexit The Movie' its a full length film getting its premiere tonight. he described the EU, as 'class war against the public"


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (May 17, 2016)

Just watched it. Good grief.  It is like a Who's Who of the despicable, dodgy and disgusting. Alternately guffawing at the Ayn Randites and friends with their "Voice of the people" schtick and gawping open mouthed at the gall of the fully paid up members of the elite and corporate shills fulminating against elitists and intellectuals....Any legit points about bureaucracy, authoritarianism and remoteness lost in idiotic populist distortion around legislation and gleeful advocacy of more neoliberal globalisation, racist stereotyping of French, Italians and Asians plus a kind of mirror version of Loach's Spirit of 45 where everything he talks about is seen as satanically evil.  Should be watched by all Left Brexiters just to remind themselves of the "mainstream" agenda of the leave campaign. Are the Furedi cultists playing a double game here?  ( That is quite often the question with them tbf)


----------



## William of Walworth (May 18, 2016)

Doubt I can find it now, but there was an article in the Education section of the Guardian yesterday (Tuesday 17th), about some branches of the NUS in some universities disafiliating because of the new leader (the one who's dared to be a bit radical about Palestine). And there was a passing reference to Spiked as 'advocates of free speech' or similar 

Fucks sake. That's the BBC habit of treating insane nutjob organisations as respectable thinktanks  i.e. being thoroughly dishonest about them. Or just unforgiveably ignorant.

That _might_  be the journalist's fault more than the Guardian's (because other Graun writers, eg Monbiot, have been hostile to Spiked before) but still.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 18, 2016)

This is a different Spiked-approving Education Guardian article from February 2015, which is even worse 

And here's the one I meant above -- put up online on the Guardian on Monday (16th)


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 18, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> And here's the one I meant above -- put up online on the Guardian on Monday (16th)



Worst thing in that article for me is the journo citing Aaron Porter - former NUS chair - on how the current NUS doesn't do enough for students. This is the maggot-ridden shitcunt who sold his own members down the river with regard to their protests, for fuck's sake!


----------



## Idris2002 (May 20, 2016)

So anyway, I looked up the Institute of Ideas on shitebook, and that led me to spiked, which had this litttle column on the "tyranny of the trans movement".

I know right? I immediately thought, "dis gon b gud".

The tyranny of the trans movement

"And now, this week, news comes that businesses in New York City will face fines under a new law that makes it a violation of someone’s human rights not to use their preferred gender   pronoun. Henceforth, employees, landlords and businesses who refuse to refer to transgender people with terms such as ‘ze’ and ‘hir’ will be in violation of the New York City human-rights law."

The thing is, they link to infowars.com - _a fukcing conspiraloon website _- in support of their claim that the people of Noo Yawk will soon be crushed under the transgender jackboot. And is this conspiraloon site basing its claims on fact? Sadly, no:

New NYC Laws Prohibit Discrimination Against Transgender Community

A fukcing conspiraloon site.


----------



## belboid (May 20, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> So anyway, I looked up the Institute of Ideas on shitebook, and that led me to spiked, which had this litttle column on the "tyranny of the trans movement".
> 
> I know right? I immediately thought, "dis gon b gud".
> 
> The tyranny of the trans movement


Uggh, you barsteward!  You just made me read that vile thing


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 14, 2016)

Is this "Invoke Article 50" stuff being run by Spiked a return to street politics by the ex RCP/Furedi cult? Is it a recruitment thing?  The "smart" youngsters with their Spiked branded placards are reminiscent of the contrarian RCP in their unlamented heyday. They were there outside Downing St yesterday, and have been out opposing the London EU romantics anti-Brexit demos (who appear to have a similar age and class profile in many ways)


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 14, 2016)

RCP in controversial stance you say? Hold the front fucking page.


----------



## belboid (Dec 26, 2016)

They run a school! An actual school. 

 I vaguely recall Keith Joseph once saying he would have no issue with a school run by trotskyites. But the fucking RCP?  Even he would have objected

The RCP/LM runs a school


----------



## Dom Traynor (Dec 26, 2016)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Is this "Invoke Article 50" stuff being run by Spiked a return to street politics by the ex RCP/Furedi cult? Is it a recruitment thing?  The "smart" youngsters with their Spiked branded placards are reminiscent of the contrarian RCP in their unlamented heyday. They were there outside Downing St yesterday, and have been out opposing the London EU romantics anti-Brexit demos (who appear to have a similar age and class profile in many ways)


Yes it is them.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 26, 2016)

belboid said:


> *They run a school! An actual school*.
> 
> I vaguely recall Keith Joseph once saying he would have no issue with a school run by trotskyites. But the fucking RCP?  Even he would have objected
> 
> The RCP/LM runs a school



I don't follow education policy that much normally, for obvious reasons, but the DfE are clearly as asleep at the wheel as they were when various religious-loon  academies -- I mean evangelical Xtian, creationism-approving ones -- were also allowed to open a few years ago.

Fucking disgrace


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 26, 2016)

belboid said:


> They run a school! An actual school.
> 
> I vaguely recall Keith Joseph once saying he would have no issue with a school run by trotskyites. But the fucking RCP?  Even he would have objected
> 
> The RCP/LM runs a school


As that piece says it'd be interesting to find out what's on the curriculum. 

If you've no problems belboid I'll cross post this on the academies thread as it's worth keeping an eye on.


----------



## chilango (Dec 26, 2016)

Any fucker can open a school these days if they have the cash.

I had to look into it at work a few weeks back.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 26, 2016)

Was it Morgan, Gove or Wilshaw who said that 'moaning lefties' (or whatever) should open their own schools?


----------



## chilango (Dec 26, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Was it Morgan, Gove or Wilshaw who said that 'moaning lefties' (or whatever) should open their own schools?



That's kinda why I was having to look into it....


----------



## timeforanother (Dec 27, 2016)

Even though all the incarnations I have known (since the 80s) have had as many facepalm moments as insight, I enjoyed reading some of their history stuff.

I used to live round the corner from 2 of them (I think one was already name-checked, her housemate was better to chat to). The main man they had round here could spout and had very nice trousers, but was appalling.

They did some good anti-deportation work a long, long time ago.

Fuck, I hate The Moral Maze, and their (twat foundation) contributions.

Currently Spiked might have some interesting things to say about freedom of speach and identity politics, but they always get it wrong in so many ways.

What a waste of nice trousers.


----------



## tim (Dec 27, 2016)

belboid said:


> They run a school! An actual school.
> 
> I vaguely recall Keith Joseph once saying he would have no issue with a school run by trotskyites. But the fucking RCP?  Even he would have objected
> 
> The RCP/LM runs a school



The C of E and the Catholics are worse.


----------



## J Ed (Dec 27, 2016)

tim said:


> The C of E and the Catholics are worse.



Disagree


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 14, 2017)

One for the connoisseurs - you may remember Martin Durkin from his much-criticised _Against Nature_ documentary (very much an LM house project):



Durkin (who never publicly acknowledged his LM involvement) appears to describe himself now as “Ex-Marxist. Libertarian.” and continues to make documentary films, the most recent of which have been:


_Brexit: The Movie_
_Nigel Farage: Who Are You?_
_Margaret: Death of a Revolutionary_
Martin Durkin - IMDb
Martin Durkin (@Martin_Durkin) on Twitter
Martin Durkin - Powerbase


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 14, 2017)

The word "Delingpole" appears in that above post.


----------



## Beetlebum (Apr 14, 2017)

I'm a big fan of Spiked. Well worth following on FB


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 15, 2017)

Beetlebum said:


> I'm a big fan of Spiked. Well worth following on FB


Tu stultus es.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 15, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The word "Delingpole" appears in that above post.


Does that trigger a warning klaxon in your bunker?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 15, 2017)




----------



## DaveCinzano (May 3, 2017)

Dark times for Furedi - he has to choose between sticking up for non-white people or autistic people.

Oxford University sorry for eye contact racism claim - BBC News


----------



## cantsin (May 3, 2017)

was having a moderately shit day anyway, but somehow seeing Frank Furedi's selfie with annoying son at Spurs on Sunday, complete with predictable PC baiting ' at Spurs with the Yid Army' comment ( say it in posh voice for full nail on blackboard effect) has added a edge of cosmic despair to proceedings. 

#AMF


----------



## The Pale King (May 3, 2017)

Aye the son seems a chip off the old block right enough


----------



## cantsin (May 3, 2017)

The Pale King said:


> Aye the son seems a chip off the old block right enough



trying to imagine having 'founder of Revolutionary Communist Party' on your wiki entry, and your son proudly displaying his Public School credentials on his Linkedin ( I was being nosey) - is it is just part of Furedi Snr's 'fuck you' contrarian shctick, part of his ideological journey?
Or is he just a weak, venal cnut, a Rev Com when young + angry,then gets half a sniff of academic success , bit of money, and true colours come out ?
( might do a poll later)


----------



## Micky D (Jul 30, 2017)

A radical life

A revisionist life ...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 31, 2017)

Micky D said:


> A radical life
> 
> A revisionist life ...


And it only took a mere sixteen paragraphs before mentioning that spiked might have the slightest of connections with him or the RCP!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 31, 2017)

I thought that read was interesting actually. I didn't know Furedi's childhood and earliest political engagement was Hungary. Also interested in the development of his libertarian politics. However, what the article doesn't explain is how those politics led him and his supporters into some extremely dark places post the RCP.


----------



## belboid (Jul 31, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I thought that read was interesting actually. I didn't know Furedi's childhood and earliest political engagement was Hungary. Also interested in the development of his libertarian politics. However, what the article doesn't explain is how those politics led him and his supporters into some extremely dark places post the RCP.


post?? Methinks not


----------



## cantsin (Jul 31, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I thought that read was interesting actually. I didn't know Furedi's childhood and earliest political engagement was Hungary. Also interested in the development of his libertarian politics. However, what the article doesn't explain is how those politics led him and his supporters into some extremely dark places post the RCP.



_"Going forward, he thinks we need to ‘fuse together the concepts of freedom and sovereignty, and of individual self-determination’, and to defend the nation state. ‘Our rulers have given up on the nation state’, he says, of leaders who feel more comfortable at international conferences than among their fellow citizens. ‘But it is probably the biggest context in which citizens can articulate their aspirations… It provides a commonality and a shared experience, which is actually lacking at the moment.'"_

Having skimmed it, that seems to be the sum total of his / (and presumably,by implication,. Spiked''s ) ideological prescription for our futures, that's the core. 

Risible.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 31, 2017)

So this nation state stands apart from the state that he sees as being antithetical to democracy? Masters of dog whistle, that lot.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 31, 2017)

belboid said:


> post?? Methinks not



The RCP were odd, but they were spot on at times (WAR/Ireland). The trajectory since then - and the company they seek - is beyond the pail.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 31, 2017)

cantsin said:


> _"Going forward, he thinks we need to ‘fuse together the concepts of freedom and sovereignty, and of individual self-determination’, and to defend the nation state. ‘Our rulers have given up on the nation state’, he says, of leaders who feel more comfortable at international conferences than among their fellow citizens. ‘But it is probably the biggest context in which citizens can articulate their aspirations… It provides a commonality and a shared experience, which is actually lacking at the moment.'"_
> 
> Having skimmed it, that seems to be the sum total of his / (and presumably,by implication,. Spiked''s ) ideological prescription for our futures, that's the core.
> 
> Risible.



Their prescription for our future is Spiked making ££££ and getting lots of attention.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 31, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The RCP were odd, but they were spot on at times (WAR/Ireland). The trajectory since then - and the company they seek - is beyond the pail.


Let's hope they finally kick the bucket.

Why is Furedi going back to the land of his birth, though? Can we expect him to join the 'George Soros worse than Hitler' train?


----------



## Micky D (Jul 31, 2017)

So Furedi goes from fervent anti communist to Trotskist then Leninist and now hes a libertarian and or a nationalist ? Spook all ends up


----------



## belboid (Jul 31, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The RCP were odd, but they were spot on at times (WAR/Ireland). The trajectory since then - and the company they seek - is beyond the pail.


Naah, sectarian arseholes even when their analysis was broadly correct. Incapable of building a movement beyond themselves and a couple of other small groups.


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 31, 2017)

belboid said:


> Incapable of building a movement beyond themselves and a couple of other small groups.


So not all bad then


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 31, 2017)

belboid said:


> Naah, sectarian arseholes even when their analysis was broadly correct. Incapable of building a movement beyond themselves and a couple of other small groups.



Being sectarian arseholes is hardly a unique feature (although their chinos, roll neck sweaters, Mai bomber jackets and Lloyd Cole hair uniform was). 

The point I'm making is that now you can't even find any thread or reference points back to Marxism unlike when Furedi etc were RCP. 

How did that happen and why?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 31, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> chinos, roll neck sweaters, Mai bomber jackets and Lloyd Cole hair uniform


----------



## mather (Jul 31, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> How did that happen and why?



Because in all probability they treated their politics as a game and a means for self advancement to climb the academic ladder. None of them are actually working class so it is not like their political somersaults actually had any negative impact on their lives and material well being.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 1, 2017)

mather said:


> Because in all probability they treated their politics as a game and a means for self advancement to climb the academic ladder. None of them are actually working class so it is not like their political somersaults actually had any negative impact on their lives and material well being.



The class compositon of the RCP in the 1980's was interesting. It was mainly posh students (even posher than the SWP, WP, Soggys and other 'working class left' organisations of the period) but they did have some good people around as well. The anti fascist work was particularly good. See below from Kenan Malik (someone I have a lot of time for)

*Workers Against Racism* started as a locally based group called East London Workers Against Racism in 1979. It took direct action against racist violence. Kenan Malik was a member in the early 1980s and gives the following account:

ELWAR was a radical anti-racist movement, which had been set up by a small Trotskyist group called the Revolutionary Communist Party, but which had become something of an institution in east London because of its willingness to take direct action against racists. It set up street patrols, ensured the physical protection of families under attack, and organized local meetings, often in people's front rooms, to win support for those facing harassment or worse. In the case of the Saddiques, 'direct action' meant staying in the house, physically confronting the youths whenever they gathered, and canvassing the local area, house by house, shop by shop, both to win support for the family's plight and to find out more about their tormentors. All of which explains why I spent much of 1984 not at University but camped out in a house in London's East End.[2]


----------



## belboid (Aug 1, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The class compositon of the RCP in the 1980's was interesting. It was mainly posh students (even posher than the SWP, WP, Soggys and other 'working class left' organisations of the period) but they did have some good people around as well. The anti fascist work was particularly good. See below from Kenan Malik (someone I have a lot of time for)
> 
> *Workers Against Racism* started as a locally based group called East London Workers Against Racism in 1979. It took direct action against racist violence. Kenan Malik was a member in the early 1980s and gives the following account:
> 
> ELWAR was a radical anti-racist movement, which had been set up by a small Trotskyist group called the Revolutionary Communist Party, but which had become something of an institution in east London because of its willingness to take direct action against racists. It set up street patrols, ensured the physical protection of families under attack, and organized local meetings, often in people's front rooms, to win support for those facing harassment or worse. In the case of the Saddiques, 'direct action' meant staying in the house, physically confronting the youths whenever they gathered, and canvassing the local area, house by house, shop by shop, both to win support for the family's plight and to find out more about their tormentors. All of which explains why I spent much of 1984 not at University but camped out in a house in London's East End.[2]


You dont actually take him at his word, do you?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Aug 1, 2017)

belboid said:


> You dont actually take him at his word, do you?



Yes. I do.


----------



## killer b (Aug 1, 2017)

I wondered how malik ended up involved with that crew - he doesnt really fit with the rest of them.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 1, 2017)

My own brief experience of ELWAR in the early 1990s is that its cadres, in contrast to the rest of the Party and its other fronts (IFM, CAM, the anti-CJB one, SUN etc), were mostly Asian or Black, and based in East London. (Well, the ones I met, that is.)

++POINTLESS AND EVIDENTIALLY INCONSEQUENTIAL ANECDOTE ENDS++


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 12, 2017)

Awkward







(That seems to be Jeremy Bedford-Turner from the London Forum endorsing Spiked there.)

via


----------



## Poi E (Aug 13, 2017)

"Free speech now!" says Spiked.


----------



## Micky D (Aug 27, 2017)

The creeping left-wing cult of uniformity will crush our students' individuality and free thought

And the end is now complete ...


----------



## RD2003 (Aug 28, 2017)

Micky D said:


> The creeping left-wing cult of uniformity will crush our students' individuality and free thought
> 
> And the end is now complete ...


Don't see anything wrong, or inaccurate, about that, to be honest. Or much else that B O' N/Spiked routinely say. Just a pity about the allies they've spent so much time cultivating.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 28, 2017)

RD2003 said:


> Don't see anything wrong, or inaccurate, about that, to be honest. Or much else that B O' N/Spiked routinely say. Just a pity about the allies they've spent so much time cultivating.



lulz

good to see their dull as f*ck, "establishment-ass kissing-diguised-as-anti-pc contrarianism"  is finally getting them Murdoch gigs though, onwards + upwards, Furedi' + co's kids private schools fees won't pay themselves.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 1, 2017)

In a dream-team partnership, the Institute of Ideas has joined with G4S to bring enlightenment to our prisons:

Thinking beyond bars



> Adam Rawcliffe, Director of External Affairs at the Institute of Ideas, explains why the Debating Matters Beyond Bars programme is making a real difference to prisoners’ lives at HM Prison Birmingham


----------



## LDC (Sep 1, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> In a dream-team partnership, the Institute of Ideas (Director - Claire Fox) has joined with G4S to bring enlightenment to our prisons:
> 
> Thinking beyond bars



Fuck me, life once again takes the wind out of the sails of spoof.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2017)

killer b said:


> I wondered how malik ended up involved with that crew - he doesnt really fit with the rest of them.


I reckon the other parties weren't offering much intellectually.


----------



## nearfuture (Sep 2, 2017)

I remember an article in LM ..1992 (?) backing the Shining Path.. who were responsible for loads of ethnically-targetted village massacres in Peru. Not very responsible of these extreme 'Trots' and fits in with the infantile policy array.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 2, 2017)

nearfuture said:


> backing the Shining Path.. who were responsible for loads of ethnically-targetted village massacres in Peru



What do you mean by this? What are you referring to?


----------



## nearfuture (Sep 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> What do you mean by this? What are you referring to?


Living Marxism magazine


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 2, 2017)

nearfuture said:


> I remember an article in LM ..1992 (?) backing the Shining Path.. who were responsible for loads of ethnically-targetted village massacres in Peru. Not very responsible of these extreme 'Trots' and fits in with the infantile policy array.


I've had a scout through, but can't find anything yet.

Living Marxism: List of contents and publications - Powerbase


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 2, 2017)

nearfuture said:


> I remember an article in LM ..1992 (?) backing the Shining Path.. who were responsible for loads of ethnically-targetted village massacres in Peru. Not very responsible of these extreme 'Trots' and fits in with the infantile policy array.



Which massacres with an ethnic dimension?


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 2, 2017)

That sounds like bullshit to me.


----------



## J Ed (Sep 2, 2017)

seventh bullet said:


> Which massacres with an ethnic dimension?



Yes, this is what I was asking about specifically.


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 2, 2017)

killer b said:


> I wondered how malik ended up involved with that crew - he doesnt really fit with the rest of them.



Is he still cutting about with them?


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 2, 2017)

Micky D said:


> The creeping left-wing cult of uniformity will crush our students' individuality and free thought
> 
> And the end is now complete ...



Very much so......  How I lost my Tory-voting virginity in the name of democracy and press freedom | Coffee House


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 2, 2017)

Fedayn said:


> Is he still cutting about with them?


Most recent article on Spiked is from 2009:

Kenan Malik | author archive | spiked

...But still banging boots with the IoI this year:

Immigration: what is the future of free movement?


----------



## seventh bullet (Sep 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Yes, this is what I was asking about specifically.



They aren't my cup of tea to put it mildly, but aside from class and ethnicity/racism being a tangle vis-a-vis middle class and recently proletarianised mestizo cadre and indigenous Indian peasant, their political organisation and violence was significantly based on both Chinese and Vietnamese learned warfare and terrorism. Class grievance and its direction was the mobilising factor in organisation.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 5, 2017)

This thread, condensed - all you need to know, basically:


----------



## Poi E (Sep 5, 2017)

Fedayn said:


> Very much so......  How I lost my Tory-voting virginity in the name of democracy and press freedom | Coffee House



So he'll be cheering on the SNP's stand against the government's snoopers charter, then...Thought not.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 7, 2017)

That (the above) is the first time I've *ever* read an article by Brendan O'Neill .... I really wish I hadn't.


----------



## phillm (Sep 21, 2017)

.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 6, 2017)

Whilst reading the lengthy BuzzFeed bin-rummage on Milo and Breitbart, I noticed that some posh Bristol student (ex-Rugby, UoB, internship at the _Spectator_ etc) was involved - Ben Kew. And lo, which esteemed UK organ published his work before he was fully Bannonised as a regular staff writer on BB?

The University of Bristol is now censoring student fiction

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-kew-88a220a0/

Here's How Breitbart And Milo Smuggled Nazi and White Nationalist Ideas Into The Mainstream


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 6, 2017)

Note also that Allum Bokhari who actually 'wrote' the Yiannopoulos piece that sort of broke this stuff to a wider audience via breitbart has appeared as IOI battle of ideas events an has written regularly for spiked. Guess what, he also claim he's worked for Stephen Williams as his election agent and is an oxbridge boy. Whilst still being an active lib-dem member - and still righting far right pieces for breitbart today. Someone could easily spin this is into a lib-dem-alt-right shock piece.


----------



## killer b (Oct 19, 2017)

Interesting thread here about Spiked involvement (along with some mad christian group and some tory tobacco lobbyists) in opposing some anti-smacking kids legislation currently going through the scottish parliament (I heard the piece on r4 this evening and thought she sounded sus - good to have your suspicions confirmed)


----------



## Poi E (Oct 20, 2017)

Saw that pernicious line up of libertarians and churches in NZ when they banned smacking. New coalition partner to the Labour government there wants to overturn the ban.


----------



## killer b (Oct 20, 2017)

There's a full article with details of the above here.

quick question - this statement in the article:

_Furedi is the leader of the cult/front group behind Spiked and a dozen connected groups collectively known as the LM Network. Posturing as ‘left’ but advocating a range of far-right causes under the banner of libertarianism the group are widely thought to be a black-ops or agent provocateur group with high-level backing.
_
Is this widely thought?


----------



## redsquirrel (Oct 20, 2017)

I've never heard of it. Loons, fools and pricks - yes, spooks - nope.

EDIT: Pretty overblown article in general TBH.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 20, 2017)

killer b said:


> quick question - this statement in the article:
> 
> _Furedi is the leader of the cult/front group behind Spiked and a dozen connected groups collectively known as the LM Network. Posturing as ‘left’ but advocating a range of far-right causes under the banner of libertarianism the group are widely thought to be a black-ops or agent provocateur group with high-level backing.
> _
> Is this widely thought?



Not sure I'd put it in such a dark kind of way.
"Fools with corporate funding" would be fair enough, though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2017)

killer b said:


> There's a full article with details of the above here.
> 
> quick question - this statement in the article:
> 
> ...



Everything after "libertarianism" is pretty much shite, I'd say.  They seem to take their lead more from what the "think tanks" are theorising, than from Century House.  The only people I've ever heard labelling LM/IoI/RCP etc as "state" were Occupy! types, who seemed to buy into every CT from James Dean's death being 'cos he was bisexual, to Liz Windsor-Saxe-Coburg being an 8ft bipedal lizard.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 21, 2017)

I remember in the 90s many militant types and swappies arguing that the RCP were funded by mi5. I dont think its _that_ bonkers. We  know that undercovers were  infiltrating  pretty much every radical political group that ever met upstairs in a pub once a week. ideological shit stirring may well have been part of their brief. Maybe their arguments won over the like of ferudi? Who knows?


----------



## Idris2002 (Oct 21, 2017)

Someone told me once is that one of the RCP inner circle married a rich woman. Of course, that wouldn't rule out MI5 money as well.

Off chitter:


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 21, 2017)

They've just invited BRHG to one of their shit things.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 22, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Who knows?



Urban75 might be funded by mi5. Who knows!


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 22, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> They've just invited BRHG to one of their shit things.



You have to go, you'd love it.


----------



## imposs1904 (Oct 22, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Urban75 might be funded by mi5. Who knows!



 It would explain the lack of adverts and pop-ups.


----------



## cantsin (Oct 23, 2017)

trying to find something to disagree with here ...

Clive Lewis’s vile misogyny


----------



## killer b (Oct 23, 2017)

Never knew about the Jonathan Pie / Spiked connection before. Fingers in many pies etc


----------



## cantsin (Oct 23, 2017)

killer b said:


> Never knew about the Jonathan Pie / Spiked connection before. Fingers in many pies etc



no, saw that -  surprising, but then I was only vaguely aware of Andrew Doyle


----------



## J Ed (Oct 23, 2017)

cantsin said:


> trying to find something to disagree with here ...
> 
> Clive Lewis’s vile misogyny





> Mims Davies railed against Lewis’s ‘astoundingly inappropriate language’ and suggested that he be reprogrammed – sorry, retrained – by none other than Jess Phillips, a Labour MP often mistaken for a socialist due to her Brummie accent



Ouch


----------



## ska invita (Feb 16, 2018)

Frank Furedi is speaking at this next week
The Orbán government’s international conference on the future of Europe, with Milo Yiannopoulos


----------



## Smoking kills (Feb 17, 2018)

Claire Fox on R4 Moral Maze right now, talking 'bout luv.
Melanie Phillips, the thinking Mail readers Katie Hopkins, on too. 
I assume they're in the same studio.
This does not disprove my hypothesis that they're really the same person however.
Poidh.


----------



## Wilf (Feb 17, 2018)

Smoking kills said:


> Claire Fox on R4 Moral Maze right now, talking 'bout luv.
> Melanie Phillips, the thinking Mail readers Katie Hopkins, on too.
> I assume they're in the same studio.
> This does not disprove my hypothesis that they're really the same person however.
> Poidh.


Claire Fox passess the Turing Test for a few sentences. When I saw her for the first time on some programme or other she didn't seem to have a swivel eyed appearance and her speech had a reasonably normal cadence.  Then thirty seconds in, you think 'I must have heard that wrong', another few sentences and you are still thinking you might be misunderstanding her.  Then the awful truth dawns - she's the full trumpet.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Feb 19, 2018)

Wilf said:


> Claire Fox passess the Turing Test for a few sentences. When I saw her for the first time on some programme or other she didn't seem to have a swivel eyed appearance and her speech had a reasonably normal cadence.  Then thirty seconds in, you think 'I must have heard that wrong', another few sentences and you are still thinking you might be misunderstanding her.  Then the awful truth dawns - she's the full trumpet.



Clare Fox often deploys her "speaking as a radical, working class feminist" catchphrase before launching into a  argument defending sex abusers, racists, the powerful generally or climate change denial.  Always comes across as a bit of a div as well.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 19, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Clare Fox often deploys her "speaking as a radical, working class feminist" catchphrase before launching into a  argument defending sex abusers, racists, the powerful generally or climate change denial.  Always comes across as a bit of a div as well.



'Speaking as a rabid, delusional contrarian...' would display more self-awareness.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Feb 20, 2018)

Spiked mob now calling out leftists for encouraging Corbyn to sue Ben Bradley for slander over a deleted tweet backing the bogus Czech spy allegations. Saying it infringes free speech. Is this the same mob who were threatening people with legal action for calling them the “ Furedi Cult”?


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2018)

You could show that couldn't you? Wouldn't that be a better post?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 22, 2018)

Mixed up in the red-brown, pro-assad, holocaust denial milieu now it seems:

Assad’s Confused Apologists: Academics in The Times

But this isn’t the first time that members of this Working Group have boosted such pro-Assad conspiracies, as earlier this year, Tara McCormack, a leading member of the group based at the University of Leicester, tweeted the following comment:

“It is also an established fact that a) the White Helmets are basically Al Q (they provide most of the reporting from Jihadi held areas and b) that hospitals are used as bases by these groups.” (February 5, 2018)

Such pro-Assad propaganda does not materialise out of nothing, and members of the Working Group lean heavily upon the writings of leading libertarian conspiracy theorists like Vanessa Beeley. For those who don’t know, Beeley is an Assad regime propagandist who is counted as an associate editor for _21st Century Wire_ — a website closely associated with Alex Jones’ notorious US-based conspiracy outlet, _InfoWars._

Tara McCormack also happens to be a longstanding contributor to the libertarian magazine _Spiked Online_ – a magazine which has more in common with _The Times _than with any forces on the left of political spectrum. Indeed, as highlighted on an independent investigative wiki page, _Spiked _was previously run by _Times_ columnist Mick Hume, and “is part of the libertarian anti-environmental” group which has the Orwellian name, the Living Marxism Network (which bears no relation to any Marxist ideas that I am familiar with, and I am a Marxist). To get a flavour of typical fare published in _Spiked_, recent articles not only dismiss the existence of a pay-gap between men and women, but also rail against “Jeremy Corbyn’s cult of youth” over his pledge to promote free bus travel.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 22, 2018)

In their defence, there's not many political groupings that are quite as consistent as they are. Shame it's being wrong they're so consistent at.


----------



## Lurdan (Apr 22, 2018)

This lot were the subject of an article by Brian Whitaker on al-bab back in February which I imagine is the source of the Times 'expose'.

The Syrian conflict's anti-propaganda propagandists - al-bab.com


Incidentally I could have done without elements of that Leicester Socialist blog post while I was eating my lunch :


> Let’s be clear, the rabid attacks upon Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership of the Labour Party by the billionaire-classes’ corrupt press are an attempt to undermine his determination to fight to represent the needs of the many instead of the capitalist few.


Pass the sick bag.


----------



## Poi E (Oct 9, 2018)

Moved into Scotland Look Who’s Coming to the Festival of Politics


----------



## killer b (Dec 3, 2018)

This is a fun article - they complain about Mccarthyite witch hunts and Monbiot's paranoid rambling about dark money funding _Sp!ked_, then reveal that dark money does in fact fund _Sp!ked._

The New McCarthyism is ruining public life


----------



## 8ball (Dec 3, 2018)

killer b said:


> This is a fun article - they complain about Mccarthyite witch hunts and Monbiot's paranoid rambling about dark money funding _Sp!ked_, then reveal that dark money does in fact fund _Sp!ked._
> 
> The New McCarthyism is ruining public life



That's an odd article.

I thought 'Dark Money' was used to describe attempting to influence elections, though. As opposed to chucking some money towards someone's webzine.


----------



## killer b (Dec 3, 2018)

I guess Monbiot is publishing tomorrow whatever, and already has the figures so they're just getting it out first.


----------



## 8ball (Dec 3, 2018)

killer b said:


> I guess Monbiot is publishing tomorrow whatever, and already has the figures so they're just getting it out first.



It's funny how it starts with the whine about no one taking anything in good faith*, before revealing the cash and its source.
They'd have been better off with two different articles.

* - which I'd agree with, actually - if you count or discount all arguments or proposed facts _solely_ on who is saying them, or who they are paid by, then any progress is impossible


----------



## belboid (Dec 3, 2018)

when did these fuckers become the Academy of Ideas, instead of merely the Institute?


----------



## 8ball (Dec 3, 2018)

belboid said:


> when did these fuckers become the Academy of Ideas, instead of merely the Institute?



It will be "University" next.


----------



## TruXta (Dec 3, 2018)

_School of Hard Right Knocks _


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Dec 3, 2018)

belboid said:


> when did these fuckers become the Academy of Ideas, instead of merely the Institute?



They got upgraded to academy status after they purchased that extra filing cabinet.


----------



## Idris2002 (Dec 3, 2018)

belboid said:


> when did these fuckers become the Academy of Ideas, instead of merely the Institute?


Did they all start wearing togas, maybe?


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Dec 4, 2018)

So the Furedi cult got 300,000 dollars from the Koch brothers. Rather funny to see them ranting about conspiracism and McCarthyism when their position on everything from climate change to BDS is conspiracist and their guru has revealed himself as a friend of the Soros-obsessive-right in both Spiked and the Telegraph...


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2018)

The article has landed: Revealed: US Oil Billionaire Charles Koch Funds UK Anti-Environment Spiked Network


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2018)

monbiot's piece here: How US billionaires are fuelling the hard-right cause in Britain | George Monbiot


----------



## 8ball (Dec 7, 2018)

I don't know the history properly, but these guys were apparently Marxists too.


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2018)

Read the LRB article linked to at the start of the thread if you want to know the history (you do)


----------



## 8ball (Dec 7, 2018)

The old cracker barrel ain’what it used to be.


----------



## Whagwan (Dec 7, 2018)

killer b said:


> Read the LRB article linked to at the start of the thread if you want to know the history (you do)



I'm pretty new to this and it is incredibly fascinating and weird.


----------



## cantsin (Dec 7, 2018)

8ball said:


> I don't know the history properly, but these guys were apparently Marxists too.



they were such weird 'Marxists' as well, no one trusted them then either ( pro Nuke / anti Miners strike lines (iirc?) didnt help ).... + the bomber jacket / black polo combo was well overrated  ( aka : standard, slightly out of date 'Wag smoothy' look )


----------



## 8ball (Dec 7, 2018)

cantsin said:


> they were such weird 'Marxists' as well, no one trusted them then either ( pro Nuke / anti Miners strike lines (iirc?) didnt help ).... + the bomber jacket / black polo combo was well overrated  ( aka : standard, slightly out of date 'Wag smoothy' look )



Basically sounds like a bunch of chancers in waiting to join whichever side looks like its winning.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 10, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> I remember in the 90s many militant types and swappies arguing that the RCP were funded by mi5. I dont think its _that_ bonkers. We  know that undercovers were  infiltrating  pretty much every radical political group that ever met upstairs in a pub once a week. ideological shit stirring may well have been part of their brief. Maybe their arguments won over the like of ferudi? Who knows?


OK, suppose for the sake of argument - and only for the sake of argument - that the Fabulous Furedi Freak Brothers really are an MI5 pseudo-gang. What does their pro-Brexit position indicate about the British deep state and the Brexit business?


----------



## JHE (Jan 10, 2019)

cantsin said:


> they were such weird 'Marxists' as well, no one trusted them then either ( pro Nuke / anti Miners strike lines (iirc?) didnt help ).... + the bomber jacket / black polo combo was well overrated  ( aka : standard, slightly out of date 'Wag smoothy' look )



They weren't against the miners' strike.

They wanted the NUM to hold a national ballot for the strike. They argued that Scargill was wrong to circumvent the NUM rule book.The rules required a national ballot to hold a national strike. Scargill didn't want to risk losing a ballot. He, and much of the left in his support, claimed that it was wrong to have a ballot since this could involve some miners voting others out of their jobs. Solidarity was owed to those defending their jobs without a ballot, they said.

We will never know for certain whether a national ballot would have gone in favour of the strike, but it seems likely.  We will never know whether a national ballot going in favour of a national strike would have persuaded the miners in Nottinghamshire that they had to join the strike. Divisions soon became very entrenched. Perhaps the only chance would have been to follow the rule book and have the ballot at the start.

Anyway, to say the RCP were anti-strike is very inaccurate.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 10, 2019)

The rule book did not require any such thing. It's the lie scum like RCP and UDM put about. Fuck that and fuck you.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jan 11, 2019)

Idris2002 said:


> OK, suppose for the sake of argument - and only for the sake of argument - that the Fabulous Furedi Freak Brothers really are an MI5 pseudo-gang. What does their pro-Brexit position indicate about the British deep state and the Brexit business?



well i wasn't actually arguing that - more that its not impossible that the spooks were involved in divisive ideological shit stirring within the far left and that the likes of furedi may have been influenced by that and/or his own particular brand of wank may have even have been actively promoted by said spooks. TBH - its of little import now. Him and his cult are shit spouting tossrags with out without the backing of sundry factions within Mi5.


----------



## andysays (Apr 23, 2019)

'Left wing activist' Claire Fox standing for Brexit Party in European elections, according to BBC


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Apr 23, 2019)

Claire Fox is to “left wing activism” what Esther McVey is to welfare rights or what McDonalds is to veganism.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Apr 23, 2019)

Elsewhere today, her co-Furedi cultist, O’Neill,  staying classy with an attack on how Greta Thunberg speaks .....


----------



## Dan U (Apr 23, 2019)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Elsewhere today, her co-Furedi cultist, O’Neill,  staying classy with an attack on how Greta Thunberg speaks .....



he accused her of being in a cult, which is amusing.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 23, 2019)

Apparently Greta Thunberg is on the Aspergers spectrum - which I think just adds that bit more  to the sheer class of O'Neill's sneering.


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 23, 2019)

O'Neill likes to describe himself as being of Irish peasant stock.

I look forward to the news that he has starved to death, surrounded by blighted potatoes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 23, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Apparently Greta Thunberg is on the Aspergers spectrum - which I think just adds that bit more  to the sheer class of O'Neill's sneering.



Asperger’s is a gift, says Greta Thunberg, the child behind climate protests


----------



## imposs1904 (Apr 23, 2019)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Elsewhere today, her co-Furedi cultist, O’Neill,  staying classy with an attack on how Greta Thunberg speaks .....



Was that prick O'Neill ever in the RCP or did he join that mob after they mutated into a think tank?


----------



## Sweet FA (Apr 23, 2019)

JHE said:


> They weren't against the miners' strike.
> 
> They wanted the NUM to hold a national ballot for the strike. They argued that Scargill was wrong to circumvent the NUM rule book.The rules required a national ballot to hold a national strike. Scargill didn't want to risk losing a ballot. He, and much of the left in his support, claimed that it was wrong to have a ballot since this could involve some miners voting others out of their jobs. Solidarity was owed to those defending their jobs without a ballot, they said.
> 
> ...



_The dispute was triggered when the closure of Cortonwood colliery was announced. After 850 miners had been transferred there from the doomed Elescar pit on the promise of five years further work, just weeks previously, feelings were running high. Cortonwood voted to strike, sought permission to do so, from the Yorkshire Area Council, as per their rule book, which was then granted. The rest of Yorkshire, Scotland, South Wales, Kent, most of the North East and parts of Lancashire quickly followed, as per Rule 41 entirely in accord with both the NUM’s constitution and the law at the time.

At the NUM Special Delegates’ Conference of April 19th, 1984, Delegates from every pit in the UK voted democratically not to have a national ballot as they were already on strike – actually a series of Area strikes – and saw no need for a ballot as they had already voted with their feet. Scargill, by contrast, actually expected the majority to vote for a national ballot and had prepared for such an outcome with posters, ballot papers and leaflets, fully expecting to have to campaign for a ‘Yes’ vote.

There were decent Notts miners, sure, but they were strikers; principled men like Keith Stanley, Eric Eaton, Les Dennis, Kevin Parkin, Nobby Lawton, Maurice Wake and a few hundred more, who were arrested, sacked and beaten as they fought to save their jobs, their industry and their communities. On the other hand, the leading Notts scabs formed themselves into the Notts Working Miners’ Committee and appealed to the Conservatives for funds to break the strike. They colluded with shadowy intelligence types and their leading figure, Chris Butcher, AKA ‘Silver Birch’ was later unmasked as a Special Branch informant. They had such respect for democracy that they flouted their Union’s Rule 30 which rendered any Area subordinate to the National Rule Book when any conflict arose. Later, their leader, Roy Lynk, stitched up his own members in secret deals with Tory Energy Minister, Tim Eggar, and then accepted a lucrative directorship of British Coal from a grateful Tory establishment. Along with his OBE, of course. In reality, the Nottinghamshire strike-breakers’ only commitment was to pound notes and the results of their betrayal are evident today; three pits left from a 174 at the start of the strike, devastated communities, crime, drugs and mass unemployment.

https://sabotagetimes.com/life/5-common-myths-about-arthur-scargill-that-simply-arent-true
_
In King Arthur's own words: Arthur Scargill: 'We could surrender - or stand and fight'


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 23, 2019)

imposs1904 said:


> Was that prick O'Neill ever in the RCP or did he join that mob after they mutated into a think tank?


He was writing for _Living Marxism_ from 1995 - in earnest from 97/98.

Brendan O'Neill - Powerbase


----------



## rekil (Apr 24, 2019)

For some unknown reason, _he said wryly_, O'Neill turned up in this NYT piece from last year about Ireland's abortion referendum where he claimed to be "a huge believer in women's rights". The male vote was 66-34 in favour, no thanks to his creepy intervention.



> “There is concern about how men will vote,” said Brendan O’Neill, an abortion rights supporter and the editor of Spiked, which he described as a libertarian online magazine. “I am a huge believer in women’s rights, but there is a trend toward women pushing men to stay in their lane.” With polls showing a tight vote, however, he said wryly, “you really need the manpower.”


----------



## imposs1904 (Apr 26, 2019)

Another old RCPer has announced on Facebook that he has been selected as a Brexit Party candidate. James Heartfield will be contesting Yorkshire and Humber.

No jokes about 'From Red Front to Red and Black Front', please.


----------



## Theisticle (Apr 26, 2019)

RCP member and Spiked columnist Alka Sehgal Cuthbert is a candidate for The Brexit Party.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 26, 2019)

Theisticle said:


> RCP member and Spiked columnist Alka Sehgal Cuthbert is a candidate for The Brexit Party.



Yeah, these Marxists are pretty chummy with the Farage-istas it seems.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 26, 2019)

8ball said:


> Yeah, these Marxists are pretty chummy with the Farage-istas it seems.



You might have heard a rumour that they're not really Marxists , I'm sure you'll be shocked by that


----------



## Poi E (May 21, 2019)

nice little summary of the shits and the Brexit Party The Warrington Fox


----------



## chilango (May 21, 2019)

They're against milkshaking, unsurprisingly.


----------



## Poi E (May 21, 2019)

So yes to terrorism and child porn, no to milkshakes. OK.


----------



## flypanam (May 21, 2019)

The Canterbury cabal are running this Academics For Academic Freedom - Free speech, no ifs no buts but it does have a handy list Statement Signatories 

founded by Dennis Hayes https://www.spiked online.com/author/dennis-hayes/


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 21, 2019)

Poi E said:


> So yes to terrorism and child porn, no to milkshakes. OK.



you are allowed to spread lies and hatred and to try and intimidate women you disagree  with via rape threats. But not to express your disapproval of such behaviour by chucking a drink. cos free speech.


----------



## chilango (May 21, 2019)

flypanam said:


> The Canterbury cabal are running this Academics For Academic Freedom - Free speech, no ifs no buts but it does have a handy list Statement Signatories
> 
> founded by Dennis Hayes https://www.spiked online.com/author/dennis-hayes/



Relieved to see that I only know one person on the list and that's in the past.


----------



## tim (May 21, 2019)

chilango said:


> Relieved to see that I only know one person on the list and that's in the past.



Amazed to see that you had the stamina to read the entire list.


----------



## Poi E (May 21, 2019)

flypanam said:


> The Canterbury cabal are running this Academics For Academic Freedom - Free speech, no ifs no buts but it does have a handy list Statement Signatories
> 
> founded by Dennis Hayes https://www.spiked online.com/author/dennis-hayes/



"and to put forward controversial and unpopular opinions, whether or not these are deemed offensive."

Can't believe any academic worth their salt signed up to this. Academics would get a free pass on hate speech not available to others. Fuck off. If they want to advocate an entrenched right of free speech available to all, fine.


----------



## Brainaddict (May 21, 2019)

flypanam said:


> The Canterbury cabal are running this Academics For Academic Freedom - Free speech, no ifs no buts but it does have a handy list Statement Signatories
> 
> founded by Dennis Hayes https://www.spiked online.com/author/dennis-hayes/


Wow, let's call this the Right To Be Racist Register. I see one person I know from student fees protest days. He was always a liberal but I didn't realise his grasp of power relations was this shoddy.

Actually, he defended John Rawls to me. Should have known then.


----------



## eoin_k (May 21, 2019)

From the comments, half the signatories don't seem to have a clue about the agenda behind the petition. Plenty of people giving out about the Research Excellence Framework and government interference in higher education, or raising issues about their own situation in Palestine, or wherever they happen to be.


----------



## eoin_k (May 21, 2019)

Oh, and at least one of the signatories appears to have been dead for a couple of years, too.


----------



## LDC (May 21, 2019)

andysays said:


> 'Left wing activist' Claire Fox standing for Brexit Party in European elections, according to BBC



Long interview with her on Novara Media. I posted in the commentariat thread but it probably got missed by most.

The Brexit Party: WTF? With Claire Fox and Aaron Bastani | Novara Media


----------



## killer b (May 21, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Long interview with her on Novara Media. I posted in the commentariat thread but it probably got missed by most.
> 
> The Brexit Party: WTF? With Claire Fox and Aaron Bastani | Novara Media


Have you listened to it?


----------



## LDC (May 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Have you listened to it?



Yeah, I was ready to hate her, but rather annoyingly I actually thought she came out of it much better than I expected. Novara put on a poor and incoherent show of questioning her, and I found them to be more annoying and politically dubious than her.


----------



## killer b (May 21, 2019)

Yeah, shes really sharp. A great choice by Farage tbh


----------



## killer b (May 21, 2019)

I think the novara lot mostly mean well, but they dont stand a chance against a operator like fox.


----------



## LDC (May 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> I think the novara lot mostly mean well, but they dont stand a chance against a operator like fox.



Against her I think they came across as naive London student lefties.


----------



## eoin_k (May 21, 2019)

You just need to remind yourself who her and her genocide-denying, koch-brother funded, fag-industry hustling, climate-change denying, ex-trot cult cronies really are.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 21, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Against her I think they came across as naive London student lefties.


I think there's probably a good reason for that.


----------



## LDC (May 21, 2019)

eoin_k said:


> You just need to remind yourself who her and her genocide denying, koch-brother funded, fag-industry hustling, climate-change denying, ex-trot cult cronies really are.



She was quite careful to put distance between her and Spiked. She said after the RCP and then LM they went different ways.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Yeah, shes really sharp. A great choice by Farage tbh


As someone who experienced her up close and personal over an extended period of time, I would beg to differ on her 'sharpness'. My experience was of a bullying, self-regarding haranguer who felt she was smarter than her actions would otherwise indicate. Literally enjoyed making children cry.


----------



## tim (May 21, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> She was quite careful to put distance between her and Spiked. She said after the RCP and then LM they went different ways.



Ones that clearly converged as they left the forest


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 21, 2019)

flypanam said:


> The Canterbury cabal are running this Academics For Academic Freedom - Free speech, no ifs no buts but it does have a handy list Statement Signatories
> 
> founded by Dennis Hayes https://www.spiked online.com/author/dennis-hayes/


Hard core RCP all over the top of that this, including lesser known ones (e.g 9)


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2019)

flypanam said:


> The Canterbury cabal are running this Academics For Academic Freedom - Free speech, no ifs no buts but it does have a handy list Statement Signatories
> 
> founded by Dennis Hayes https://www.spiked online.com/author/dennis-hayes/


that's auld surely, being as the institute of education's been part of ucl for some years now


----------



## eoin_k (May 21, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> She was quite careful to put distance between her and Spiked. She said after the RCP and then LM they went different ways.



Sure, which is why it was irritating that the Novara boy's didn't press her on her own organisation's similar MO, working out of the same offices, taking money from the same sort of corporate sources, maintaining each others profile etc. If I was going head-to-head with her, I'd do my homework.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2019)

and grayling left birkbeck years ago


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 21, 2019)

tim said:


> Ones that clearly converged as they left FOREST


FTFY


----------



## flypanam (May 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> that's auld surely, being as the institute of education's been part of ucl for some years now
> 
> View attachment 171683


Yeah, to be honest I only noticed AFAF because Hayes had an opinion peice in the Times Higher (two weeks ago) about his AFAF which stank so followed up a bit.


----------



## killer b (May 21, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> As someone who experienced her up close and personal over an extended period of time, I would beg to differ on her 'sharpness'. My experience was of a bullying, self-regarding haranguer who felt she was smarter than her actions would otherwise indicate. Literally enjoyed making children cry.


I'm sure this is true, but her recent media appearances I've seen have been impressive. Shes a very plausible politician. No one is able to lay a glove on her.


----------



## eoin_k (May 21, 2019)

If nothing else, they deserve full marks for top trolling with the acronym.


----------



## eoin_k (May 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> that's auld surely...



That would explain the dead signatories.


----------



## eoin_k (May 21, 2019)

It's remarkable quite how little impact her currently nonce-friendly and formerly pro-Irish republican rhetoric seems to be having.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> I'm sure this is true, but her recent media appearances I've seen have been impressive. Shes a very plausible politician. No one is able to lay a glove on her.


But much of her apparent impressiveness is just the same balloon debate wankery that the likes of Johnson have, only instead of going the public school-Oxbridge route, she honed her skillset berating junior cadres in the party orgs, fronts and conferences and then with The Moral Maze.

Whenever she is pinned down on detail beyond the narrow parameters of her chosen/paid-for ideological pathway, she fluffs it and loses her shit. Always has.

It's an indictment of current political debate that she is not taken down more often.


----------



## killer b (May 21, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> But much of her apparent impressiveness is just the same balloon debate wankery that the likes of Johnson have, only instead of going the public school-Oxbridge route, she honed her skillset berating junior cadres in the party orgs, fronts and conferences and then with The Moral Maze.


Absolutely - but that skillset is what politics is now. And by that measure, she's impressive.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 21, 2019)

whenever ive had the misfourtune of listening to her i thought she always comes across as not that sharp at all - just confident in her own bullshit. She hides her vile politics behind this "speaking as a working class feminist radical" schtick.


----------



## killer b (May 21, 2019)

Yeah of course. My view is she's doing it very well right now.


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 21, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's an indictment of current political debate that she is not taken down more often.



That recent good cop/bad cop Novara tag-team effort with her was pretty poor. _so you haven’t read Deleuze?_


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 21, 2019)

killer b said:


> Yeah of course. My view is she's doing it very well right now.





killer b said:


> Absolutely - but that skillset is what politics is now. And by that measure, she's impressive.


Depressing, isn't it


----------



## killer b (May 21, 2019)

Dunno if you've noticed lads, but _having vile politics _is generally a net positive for people with political ambitions right now.

The spiked crew seem to have made the leap from slightly sinister but essentially laughable weirdo cult to being a hyper-organised political force on the brink of western hegemony in about three years. I don't think a weve really caught up on this thread yet.


----------



## The39thStep (May 21, 2019)

Evan Smith
@Hatfulofhistory
·
 on Twitter has been doing quite a good trajectory on how the RCP went from No Platform to Free Speech for everyone


----------



## chilango (May 21, 2019)

You bastards have me sat watching Bastani Vs Fox now whilst I wait for Years and Years


----------



## Poi E (May 21, 2019)

Viewed the Fox Bastani piece. First time I've ever seen her on camera. Can she not stay on point? Her thought and diction seems muddled. Heavy drinker.


----------



## LDC (May 22, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Viewed the Fox Bastani piece. First time I've ever seen her on camera. Can she not stay on point? Her thought and diction seems muddled. Heavy drinker.



Criticizing her as a 'muddled heavy drinker' feels one small step away from calling her a hysterical woman tbh.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2019)

I think Fox came across quite well, if she was facing a general audience, and just "performing".

For a more _specialist_ audience, her weaknesses were glaring. It was notable that she couldn't, or more likely wouldn't, commit to anything concrete that placed her positions as "on the left". We can, and should, laugh at the "you've not read Deleuze?" moment, but for someone who markets themselves on "ideas" she was very shy about them.


----------



## sunnysidedown (May 22, 2019)

chilango said:


> I think Fox came across quite well, if she was facing a general audience, and just "performing".



Agreed, I think she was helped by the fact bastani and the other one appeared to be sat each side of her so she had to keep turning her head each way when answering questions, giving the impression at times of being attacked from both sides at once. 



chilango said:


> For a more _specialist_ audience, her weaknesses were glaring. It was notable that she couldn't, or more likely wouldn't, commit to anything concrete that placed her positions as "on the left". We can, and should, laugh at the "you've not read Deleuze?" moment, but for someone who markets themselves on "ideas" she was very shy about them.



I thought she was all over the place at the start but gradually got stronger as it went on (apart from the point about no-go areas near the end). I think this was mainly down to Novara, unsurprisingly, being incapable of dealing with much outside of their own narrow theoretical positions and resorting to name dropping (well how much Virilio have you read bastani? blah blah). You are correct though, she didn't offer much, but that may of also been down to the quality of questions/questioning.


----------



## killer b (May 22, 2019)

She isn't trying to appeal to a _specialist_ audience though is she?


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2019)

killer b said:


> She isn't trying to appeal to a _specialist_ audience though is she?



No.

...and that's the point. 

Or at least one part of it.

She doesn't need to substantiate her "leftism" on those terms in this campaign.

Equally, it is of no advantage for the rest of her career interests to do so either.

I'm not quite sure why she appeared tbh.


----------



## killer b (May 22, 2019)

Maybe to appeal to Lexit types in the Novara orbit? It doesn't seem a worthwhile use of her time even for that though tbf.


----------



## greenfield (May 22, 2019)

Why wouldn't she appear? She loves the attention as much as the rest of them


----------



## LDC (May 22, 2019)

chilango said:


> I'm not quite sure why she appeared tbh.



Build the brand, build the votes?

Imagine anyone in her sphere has a hint of narcissism about them too. Perfect match for Novara.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2019)

A question for those who follow her, and the rest, more closely than I....does she still actually think of herself as being on the Left? a part of the Left? etc.


----------



## greenfield (May 22, 2019)

I think she just thinks of herself as incredibly clever


----------



## LDC (May 22, 2019)

chilango said:


> A question for those who follow her, and the rest, more closely than I....does she still actually think of herself as being on the Left? a part of the Left? etc.



IIRC in the interview she made it quite clear she thought things didn't divide neatly into left and right anymore. So I think she dodged the question a bit, and could have given a quite clear answer really, and when pressed she did give some answers about who runs public services (State/private) and mentioned anti-racism and anti-imperialism a bit.

I haven't followed her _at all _just this interview, although I was aware of her and her background, so someone might have a much clearer answer.


----------



## eoin_k (May 22, 2019)

chilango said:


> A question for those who follow her, and the rest, more closely than I....does she still actually think of herself as being on the Left? a part of the Left? etc.



Not really, but she's happy to claim that this has more to do with the shifting position of the left, rather than her own worldview fundamentally changing and she still justifies taking an anti-imperialist line on Ireland, say, rather than offering a _mea culpa _for her previous positions. She's also willing to be represented as of the left to give the impression that the Brexit Party's a broad coalition fielding candidates from across the political spectrum. These days she's more likely to invoke enlightenment values instead of any sort of class politics, but she still speaks of the working class often enough. Generally only in support of libertarian arguments against the interference of the nanny state though. Unfortunately, this rings true sometimes given the role of the state, nevermind the ability of policymakers to interfere in peoples' lives unnecessarily.

The opportunism of ex-RCP members seems to be bourne out of their collective pessimism as former true believers. It's as if someone let slip a loss of faith to their fellow cadre at a house party in north London at some point in the 1990s and it became the new party line, but they still kept on organising as if nothing had changed. There could be some great political satire in tracing the backstories of the different activists involved in the Brexit Party, so long as our future political overlords are sincere in their commitment to free speech.


----------



## Mr Moose (May 22, 2019)

greenfield said:


> I think she just thinks of herself as incredibly clever



And trying to answer that oh so tricky question for ‘radicals’ _how can I pay the bills in such a way that I can enjoy my opinions in great comfort?’
_


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2019)

chilango said:


> A question for those who follow her, and the rest, more closely than I....does she still actually think of herself as being on the Left? a part of the Left? etc.





greenfield said:


> I think she just thinks of herself as incredibly clever



"I didn't leave the left, the left left me"

She is not thick by any means but she is useless once taken outside her talking points. She is good at trying to keep things inside of those boundaries but if they go outside them it's game over. Possibly one of the reasons why she's on the Moral Maze all the time - it's very easy to just stop once things have got uncomfortable in that format.


----------



## Poi E (May 22, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Criticizing her as a 'muddled heavy drinker' feels one small step away from calling her a hysterical woman tbh.



Fair cop. On reflection, unwise.


----------



## LDC (May 22, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Fair cop. On reflection, unwise.



'Muddled heavy drinker' could go on some of my best friend's gravestones.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 22, 2019)

I honestly hate this thread every time it pops up. I know what the IoI in the thread title stands for, but it's always a jarring moment whenever I see it and have to mentally go "not lol, even although that kinda fits too". Every damn time


----------



## 8ball (May 22, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> 'Muddled heavy drinker' could go on some of my best friend's gravestones.



But not “hysterical woman”, I take it.


----------



## 8ball (May 30, 2019)

Interesting mixture of ideas going on here.


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## Poi E (May 30, 2019)

Always pisses the right off that gun ownership is lower amongst black people in the US. The old line is that the laws are too tough and discriminate against black people.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 27, 2019)

BobFromBrockley: The RCP's long march from anti-imperialist outsiders to the doors of Downing Street

On Munira Mirza - new head of policy at Number 10.


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 27, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> BobFromBrockley: The RCP's long march from anti-imperialist outsiders to the doors of Downing Street
> 
> On Munira Mirza - new head of policy at Number 10.



Lots of interesting links and references in that, including about their 'Left Brexit' front "The Full Brexit". Has that been mentioned before ? Interesting to read this piece by its co-founder Lee Jones bearing in mind his involvement with this lot.

Labour's Brexit capitulation is the end of Corbynism - LSE BREXIT

butchersapron mentioned their red-brown associations last year, and I see the term is used in this article by BobFromBroxley. Clearly, taken as a whole, the ex-LM network represents a bridge between 'left' and 'right' ideas and rhetoric. Nonetheless I imagine there would be some resistance to the use of the term red-brown to describe them if that implied collapsing the distinctions between fascism and national populism.

Personally I think that the labelling is rather less significant than the issue of whether their employment of particular 'left' arguments raises more questions about them, or about those arguments.

Munira Mirza, Boris' new Head of Policy reviews Kaufmann's Whiteshift and Eatwell and Goodwin's National Populism in the Telegraph last December.



Spoiler: Text of Paywalled Review



Why have two books about populism caused such outrage among academics?

Munira Mirza

23 December 2018 - 7:00am

The signs were there but few saw the backlash coming. Emily Thornberry tweeted that photo of a house in Kent draped with England flags; Gordon Brown was overheard calling Rochdale pensioner Gillian Duffy a “bigoted woman” for complaining to him about immigration; David Cameron denounced UKIP supporters as “fruitcakes, loons and racists”. The message of contempt wasn’t just political, it was cultural – and it was received loud and clear.

In 2016, the majority mounted a revolt. Brexit was as much an expression of antipathy towards the elite and mainstream politicians as it was a decision about the future relationship between the UK and the EU. It was a uniquely British iteration of a much broader global phenomenon. In Europe, we have seen it, in different forms, in France, Italy, Spain, Sweden and Germany. Further afield, it has overturned the established order in Brazil and, of course, the United States.

Where has this populist surge come from? Many commentators have pointed to the growing gap between rich and poor in developed countries, but the data suggests that income level is not a very strong indicator of how people will vote (Hillary voters were, in fact, poorer than Trump voters, on average). Bill Clinton’s famous adage “It’s the economy, stupid”, doesn’t seem a good enough answer anymore.

Two compelling new books attempt to explain what is happening by exploring longer-term social and cultural shifts within liberal democracies. Eric Kaufmann’s Whiteshift (Allen Lane, £25) is an insightful study of demographic change in the US, UK, Canada, Europe and Australia, and focuses on one barely discussed feature: the declining proportion of the populations of these countries that comes from what might be broadly defined as the white ethnic majority.

By 2050, it is projected that the white population of the US will be in the minority. The UK will reach the same point by the end of the century. The pace and scale of change is unprecedented and has profound implications for how people feel about their cultural identity.

Kaufmann argues that, while academics theorise about living in an era of multiculturalism and “global citizenship”, most people remain stubbornly attached to the idea of a national ethnic identity. What they fear from high levels of immigration and diversity is a tipping point whereby the shared culture they know is lost forever. Kaufmann draws on reams of polling data to argue that populist concerns about immigration are driven more by a sense of cultural loss than economic deprivation.

Undeniably, Kaufmann’s focus on “whiteness” makes this book uncomfortable reading. In most parts of the world, anxiety about an influx of newcomers of a different ethnicity might be seen as entirely natural, but we are rightly cautious about where such feelings can lead. Kaufmann handles these issues with sensitivity as well as critical distance. Indeed, he points out that “whiteness” is a somewhat malleable concept. In US history it has absorbed, over time, the Irish, Jews and even to some extent Hispanics, even though these groups were all initially regarded as “alien” by the host population. (Kaufmann points out that he himself is mixed-race, but that he would be regarded by most people he meets as white.)

The key issue is not a pure racial quality of “whiteness” per se, but how people use it as a proxy of ethnic belonging to the host culture. If liberal democracy is to successfully welcome migrants of other ethnic backgrounds, it needs to maintain a degree of cultural continuity. Although it sounds contradictory, Kaufmann predicts that we will develop a more ethnically mixed and inclusive conception of “whiteness” in the future. He is sanguine about where we will end up, as long as we can manage people’s anxieties in the short term by stabilising the degree of change and emphasising assimilation into a shared identity.

One downside of the book is that by focusing so much on the white majority’s cultural fears, the author is a little too dismissive about other drivers behind the immigration debate. Many people (including settled ethnic minorities) believe that high levels of unskilled immigration will affect their livelihoods and public services, and this ties into wider fears about job insecurity, market forces and globalisation.

Matthew Goodwin and Roger Eatwell’s National Populism: the Revolt Against Liberal Democracy (Pelican, £9.99) acknowledges the cultural factors but also takes the broad economic drivers seriously. They do a good job of demolishing lazy stereotypes about Trump and Brexit supporters being almost exclusively white and old (one in three ethnic minorities supported Brexit; one in three Latino men backed Trump; and many young people support populist parties in Europe). The authors see immigration and cultural identity as a key factor behind populism, but link this to wider economic and social change, including the deregulation of labour markets.

The UK has developed an economic model that relies increasingly on cheap, non-unionised migrant workers. To the people at the top, this “growth” looks like wealth, but to the people at the bottom it feels like a chimera because it does not reach them. As one member of the public is quoted as saying: “That’s your bloody GDP, not ours.”

Lower-skilled employees feel the effects of large-scale immigration in certain sectors, such as agriculture, construction and social care. But instead of acknowledging these concerns and seeking to mitigate them, politicians have tried to clamp down on any discussion and stigmatised those who have expressed anxiety. The effect is that voters no longer trust their politicians to have their interests at heart. There is a loosening of political obligations to “the people” and, as a result, “the people” are cutting their traditional loyalties to the political parties. Culture matters, not because it is a signifier of race but because it often connotes our connectedness to a wider story; family, party, nation, class and community. Language, symbols and traditions are important because they imbue our lives with these shared meanings.

Yet these unifying stories have fragmented over the past half-century; we argue over which heroes to admire, which flags to fly, and which words we can safely use. The fallout after the Brexit vote and dismissal of those who voted Leave as stupid, uneducated, and racist, revealed how much this sense of solidarity and empathy has frayed. There is deep suspicion that the global elite do not share the same political and economic interests, because they do not share the same cultural story.

Depressingly, the measured and insightful efforts by the authors of these books to investigate and explain populism have been met by anger from some within academia. They claim that such studies legitimise anti-immigrant feeling. Indeed, when Kaufmann and Goodwin organised a public debate in central London in November, a group of academics wrote an open letter in condemnation.

Censorship would be the wrong response in any case, but it should go without saying that studying a phenomenon does not mean you endorse it. Neither of these books is opposed to immigrants or immigration, and they do not even assume that opposition to immigration is inevitable.

Demographics are not destiny. But by acknowledging the drivers behind people’s anxieties over immigration and finding ways to address such concerns, rather than trying to ignore or steamroller them, the authors point to how Britain, at least, might avoid the kind of far-Right surge that has developed in other parts of Europe.



Edit: reinserted a chunk of the review I accidentally deleted.


----------



## greenfield (Jul 28, 2019)

Creepy stuff. I've always found the RCP fascinating because their tragectory is so downright weird. What do people think they're really about? Their paper The Next Step and Living Marxism was suspiciously well-funded.

Do people think they ever believed what they said? For instance, when they were an ostensibly Leftist party what was their actual gameplan, or were they just a contrarian cult?


----------



## tim (Jul 28, 2019)

greenfield said:


> Creepy stuff. I've always found the RCP fascinating because their tragectory is so downright weird. What do people think they're really about? Their paper The Next Step and Living Marxism was suspiciously well-funded.
> 
> Do people think they ever believed what they said? For instance, when they were an ostensibly Leftist party what was their actual gameplan, or were they just a contrarian cult?


 

The RCPers I was at University with seemed commited enough to the cause to spend their free time standing in the rain selling the Next Step and Living Marxism. The They last time I saw one of them was 2 or three years after graduating still flogging mags but in London rather than Liverpool. I remember be going to an RCP public meeting, where aside from the smart casual dress code, chain smoking Marlboro cigarettes seemed to be compulsory. Presumably, their views on lung cancer were similar to their ones on AIDS. 

I have three distinct memories of their actual political activities at University.  The University Union organised an annual ball, which the governing council tried to cancel because it was expensive and few students c1984 wanted to go to. The RCP opposed this because it went against the Unions anti-cuts policy. The second memory was them heckling a speech by ultra-wet Tory Francis Pym who'd come to give a talk soon after resigning or being sacjed from Thatcher's Cabinet. They managed to get the meeting abandoned. 

The third memory was of an occupation of Senate House in 1984, which the Vice Chancellor, Robert Whellan came down to address, in the middle of his speech he had a fatal heart attack collapsing onto the RCP, leaving them a tad traumatised.






Anyway a quick cyberstalk tells me that the young revolutionaries I knew, have under a variety of names had successful media and educational careers


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## discokermit (Jul 28, 2019)

The rcp had the best dress sense on the left.
When I was nineteen I was on a picket of a tory dinner where Enoch Powell was speaking. I think an rcp member lived in the flats opposite as half a dozen of them emerged at once, striding along like they were in some sort of fashion show, all wearing black. They seemed very cool and I was in awe.


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## Serge Forward (Jul 28, 2019)

More than a few of the blokes sported flat-tops.


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 29, 2019)




----------



## nogojones (Jul 30, 2019)

tim said:


> The RCPers I was at University with seemed commited enough to the cause to spend their free time standing in the rain selling the Next Step and Living Marxism. The They last time I saw one of them was 2 or three years after graduating still flogging mags but in London rather than Liverpool. I remember be going to an RCP public meeting, where aside from the smart casual dress code, chain smoking Marlboro cigarettes seemed to be compulsory. Presumably, their views on lung cancer were similar to their ones on AIDS.
> 
> Anyway a quick cyberstalk tells me that the young revolutionaries I knew, have under a variety of names had successful media and educational careers



The only RCPer I knew seems to have gone on to a very successful career in media and coms. He still spouts the odd bit of contrarian bollocks about climate change on fb.

So do we know where the RCP money came from, for all their glossy mags and trendy haircuts yet?


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## Serge Forward (Jul 30, 2019)

I knew Bruno Waterfield from the early days of the ACF. It's a shocker indeed


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## cantsin (Jul 30, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> More than a few of the blokes sported flat-tops.



There were a lot of flat tops about at the time tbf


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 30, 2019)

Bruno had a flat top.


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## greenfield (Jul 30, 2019)

Was there always dodgy money/interests involved? Were they run as a weird front group to split the left - or did they honestly believe themselves to be Trotskyist at one point and went on this bizarre trajectory all by themselves?


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## Serge Forward (Jul 30, 2019)

Dunno but they were always cunts.


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## imposs1904 (Jul 30, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> Dunno but they were always cunts.



posh cunts

Maybe it was because I was in London but when I encountered RCPers flogging their lifestyle mag, they all seemed to be ex-public school types.


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## Smokeandsteam (Jul 30, 2019)

discokermit said:


> The rcp had the best dress sense on the left.
> When I was nineteen I was on a picket of a tory dinner where Enoch Powell was speaking. I think an rcp member lived in the flats opposite as half a dozen of them emerged at once, striding along like they were in some sort of fashion show, all wearing black. They seemed very cool and I was in awe.



I always thought they looked like Lloyd Cole and The Commotions. Black flight jackets, chinos, boots.


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## Dogsauce (Jul 30, 2019)

Only ex-RCPer I knew (who would have been involved in his teens in late 80s) was out knocking doors for Clegg not so long ago. Think they left it behind when they left London for university and became a massive stoner for a few years.


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## imposs1904 (Jul 30, 2019)

discokermit said:


> The rcp had the best dress sense on the left.
> When I was nineteen I was on a picket of a tory dinner where Enoch Powell was speaking. I think an rcp member lived in the flats opposite as half a dozen of them emerged at once, striding along like they were in some sort of fashion show, all wearing black. They seemed very cool and I was in awe.



I'm trying to picture it but this is the only image that comes up:



Mick Hume and Frank Furedi at the back.


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## Libertad (Jul 30, 2019)

discokermit said:


> The rcp had the best dress sense on the left.
> When I was nineteen I was on a picket of a tory dinner where Enoch Powell was speaking. I think an rcp member lived in the flats opposite as half a dozen of them emerged at once, striding along like they were in some sort of fashion show, all wearing black. They seemed very cool and I was in awe.



Berets ffs, tossers.


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## discokermit (Jul 30, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I always thought they looked like Lloyd Cole and The Commotions. Black flight jackets, chinos, boots.


The ones in wolvo looked like the communards turned bad.


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## Smokeandsteam (Jul 30, 2019)

discokermit said:


> The ones in wolvo looked like the communards turned bad.



A fitting epitaph for both the town and the sect.


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## tim (Jul 30, 2019)

discokermit said:


> The ones in wolvo looked like the communards turned bad.




Really? 





That certainly wasn't the RCP Liverpool look.


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## Kaka Tim (Jul 30, 2019)

tim said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



church police (Marxist/Leninist)


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## rekil (Jul 30, 2019)

His brother was a proper nasty piece of work.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 30, 2019)

copliker said:


> His brother was a proper nasty piece of work.


He still is


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## tim (Jul 30, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> He still is



Good grief he really is, isn't he?



> Andy Coles, the deputy police and crime commissioner for Cambridgeshire and Peterborough, stepped down three days after his past as an undercover officer infiltrating political groups was revealed.
> 
> On Friday, he was accused of deceiving a 19-year-old activist into forming a sexual relationship while he was working undercoverin the 1990s.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/15/cambridgeshire-deputy-police-commissioner-resigns-over-spy-claims-andy-coles


Nice to know that his reverence grassed his brother up.


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## Proper Tidy (Jul 30, 2019)

Basically a nonce. The Rev sounds like a dick too though tbf - his bro was infiltrating 'sinister organisations' was he, fucks sake, only sinister organisation was his employer.


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## Kaka Tim (Jul 30, 2019)

fuck me - didn't know andy coles was his brother. mental. probably spied on him as well cos "gay extremist" or some shit.


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 30, 2019)

tim said:


> Nice to know that his reverence grassed his brother up.



Only inadvertently by mentioning Brother Andy had been an undercover cop in his autobiography. He's not exactly been helpful to the victims of his would-be Rule 43 bruh. Everything was dug up or deduced by the victims themselves, or the main support groups. Cuddly media vicar Coles hasn't done fuck all.


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## Kaka Tim (Jul 31, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> Only inadvertently by mentioning Brother Andy had been an undercover cop in his autobiography. He's not exactly been helpful to the victims of his would-be Rule 43 bruh. Everything was dug up or deduced by the victims themselves, or the main support groups. Cuddly media vicar Coles hasn't done fuck all.
> 
> View attachment 179249



what a wanker. How can you be an active lefty in the 80s and not be extremely wary of someone who is working for special branch? It was well known that they all over the miners strike and up to their necks in shitty dealings


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 31, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> what a wanker. How can you be an active lefty in the 80s and not be extremely wary of someone who is working for special branch? It was well known that they all over the miners strike and up to their necks in shitty dealings


I think this was around the time he was pretending to be HIV+ so as to elicit sympathy and kindness.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 31, 2019)

They're going after little old ladies now.


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## Poi E (Aug 1, 2019)

Fucking morons. No, get rid of the monarchy you fawning fucks.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 1, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> BobFromBrockley: The RCP's long march from anti-imperialist outsiders to the doors of Downing Street
> 
> On Munira Mirza - new head of policy at Number 10.



Bob's certainly done plenty of research!!  

Excellent article. I've always thought the whole LM/Spiked/"contrarian because utter twats" network were complete lying charlatans, but I've never seen that much evidence in one place


----------



## imposs1904 (Sep 6, 2019)




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## rekil (Sep 6, 2019)

It takes about 10 tweets into that thread to get to people posting that wretched horseshoe theory pic.

This loonery was on the fullbrexit site. By Peter Ramsay and Christopher Bickerton. Spiked people?



> Behind the intransigence of Michel Barnier and Leo Varadkar we find potential threats from diehard republican grouplets, effectively recruited as the armed wing of the European Union. In London, we find a British political class that has been willing to send its armies on bloody adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan, but is unwilling to face down even the slightest hint of violence closer to home to ensure that a democratic decision over the constitutional future of the UK can be implemented.


----------



## killer b (Sep 6, 2019)

Chris Bickerton is a pro-brexit Cambridge academic - I don't think he's associated with spiked. Often has quite interesting things to say IME


----------



## flypanam (Sep 6, 2019)

killer b said:


> Chris Bickerton is a pro-brexit Cambridge academic - I don't think he's associated with spiked. Often has quite interesting things to say IME


He is. Chris Bickerton, Author at spiked


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## killer b (Sep 6, 2019)

ah yes, it's pretty easy to check these things.


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## butchersapron (Sep 6, 2019)

_Ain't half a lot of academics involved ain't there. Guv. Nice to have someone sticking up fer us little folk  i spose._


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## flypanam (Sep 6, 2019)

killer b said:


> ah yes, it's pretty easy to check these things.


Yes, but I do agree with you that he has some quite interestings to say, and he is usually not frothing like some of the other spiked lot.


----------



## Idris2002 (Sep 6, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I thought that read was interesting actually. I didn't know Furedi's childhood and earliest political engagement was Hungary. Also interested in the development of his libertarian politics. However, what the article doesn't explain is how those politics led him and his supporters into some extremely dark places post the RCP.


Just looked at that interview. I actually find it really implausible that someone from that background would become a Marxist of any stripe, Trot or otherwise. . . of course, he might have reasons for claiming to be a Marxist. . .


----------



## Micky D (Sep 27, 2019)

B O Neill being a feckin eejit again


----------



## Micky D (Sep 27, 2019)

Damn meant this quote


----------



## Poi E (Sep 27, 2019)

Picture for the little bit ISIS thread


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 27, 2019)

Find it proper depressing that brendan o'neill, bowtie prick who sounds like a public school boy eternally stuck in a helium balloon, somehow gets to market himself as a spirit guide for what ordinary people think


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2019)

They _are_, in fact, a cheap talking point for  BON, for Lammy they seemed to be a real material purpose for their actions when in govt.

We got what he wanted in the end.


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## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Find it proper depressing that brendan o'neill, bowtie prick who sounds like a public school boy eternally stuck in a helium balloon, somehow gets to market himself as a spirit guide for what ordinary people think


He utilises the same networks that the BBC runs on. The problem isn't (wholly) that it's him that  is on there, it's that it's that the BBC choose who we have on there to do that.


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## Raheem (Sep 27, 2019)

I've often wondered what ordinary people must be thinking, so it's great to have someone who's able to go on telly and imagine it for me.


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## treelover (Sep 27, 2019)

I wonder if DR Simon Wesseley of M.E denial infamy is linked, Spiked have captured a fair bit of M.E information control through the Science Media Centre, and Sense about Science, they have also created an M.E network, but can't remember its name.


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## tim (Sep 27, 2019)

treelover said:


> I wonder if DR Simon Wesseley of M.E denial infamy is linked, Spiked have captured a fair bit of M.E information control through the Science Media Centre, and Sense about Science, they have also created an M.E network, but can't remember its name.



A link for anyone like me until I Googled who doesn't know about M.E. denial

Truth denied: the "scandal of ME Denial" - Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland


----------



## cantsin (Sep 28, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Find it proper depressing that brendan o'neill, bowtie prick who sounds like a public school boy eternally stuck in a helium balloon, somehow gets to market himself as a spirit guide for what ordinary people think



O Neil is ridiculous, obvs. but suspect he's closer to reflecting actual ' ordinary people' thinking here than he / Spiked etc usually are, and it's the reason Bozza / Cummings feel able to go so big / gung ho at the moment : seems like there is a pretty incendiary undercurrent out there now amongst some core Leavers /  boredom and total frustration combined with growing feeling  they're going to get f*cked over one way or another


----------



## brogdale (Sep 28, 2019)

cantsin said:


> they're going to get f*cked over one way or another


The one certainty of Brexit


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2019)




----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2019)

Plain embarrassing. What a cunt. 

Jacob Rees-Mogg is right about Grenfell


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Nov 6, 2019)

editor said:


> Plain embarrassing. What a cunt.
> 
> Jacob Rees-Mogg is right about Grenfell



There's a huge load more anti-social cuntitude in the comments.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2019)

Louis MacNeice said:


> There's a huge load more anti-social cuntitude in the comments.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


The site is a magnet for fuckwits. The good news is that barely anyone gives a fuck. This site gets shitloads more traffic.


----------



## Poi E (Nov 6, 2019)




----------



## 8ball (Nov 6, 2019)

editor said:


> The site is a magnet for fuckwits. The good news is that barely anyone gives a fuck. This site gets shitloads more traffic.



Albeit less media attention.  I think that's the right way round to have things.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2019)

8ball said:


> Albeit less media attention.  I think that's the right way round to have things.


Empty vessels etc..


----------



## Lurdan (Nov 21, 2019)

At lunchtime Dr Lee Jones, co-founder of the ex-LM network's left-Brexit front 'The Full Brexit', had this to say about the Labour Party manifesto







But just seven hours later he's spotted a problem






Votes for non-citizens eh. So just like the large numbers of Irish and Qualifying Commonwealth citizens who already have a vote then.

Dr Jones teaches politics at Queen Mary UL.


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2019)

How many members do they have standing?  I know of seven:

James Heartfield, Islington North
Stuart Waiton , Dundee West
 Kevin Yuill, Houghton and Sunderland South
Dominic Frisby, Old Bexley & Sidcup
Alaric Bamping, Dartford
Paddy Hannam, Islington South & Finsbury
Richard Ings, Hackney North


----------



## killer b (Nov 25, 2019)

Birmingham crew suggest they have one standing round there, just a sec...


----------



## killer b (Nov 25, 2019)

Rosie Cuckston (apparently formerly of the band Pram) in Birmingham Hall Green


----------



## ska invita (Nov 25, 2019)

belboid said:


> How many members do they have standing?  I know of seven:
> 
> James Heartfield, Islington North
> Stuart Waiton , Dundee West
> ...


iirc james heartfield has since stood down
???
might have remembered that wrong


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2019)

ska invita said:


> iirc james heartfield has since stood down
> ???
> might have remembered that wrong


you're right, Yosef David (unaffiliated as far as I can tell) has replaced him.

Alka Sehgal Cuthbert in East Ham looks like another one


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 25, 2019)

Lurdan said:


> At lunchtime Dr Lee Jones, co-founder of the ex-LM network's left-Brexit front 'The Full Brexit', had this to say about the Labour Party manifesto
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a funny one, especially since getting under-18s on board was a particular obsession of the likes of Fox and her underling Derbyshire and fronts like SCAM and SUN!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Nov 25, 2019)

killer b said:


> Rosie Cuckston (apparently formerly of the band Pram) in Birmingham Hall Green



Odd seat to choose. Hall Green voted heavily to remain in the ref.


----------



## killer b (Nov 25, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Odd seat to choose. Hall Green voted heavily to remain in the ref.


It's Roger Godsiff's seat, and Godsiff is standing as an independent having been deselected by his CLP for being a massive homophobe - maybe they imagine that might split the vote?


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2019)

killer b said:


> It's Roger Godsiff's seat, and Godsiff is standing as an independent having been deselected by his CLP for being a massive homophobe - maybe they imagine that might split the vote?


Fine irony, as spiked seem to be fully behind godsiff in his particular dispute


----------



## Sue (Nov 25, 2019)

belboid said:


> How many members do they have standing?  I know of seven
> 
> *Richard Ings, Hackney North*


Standing for the Brexit Party?


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2019)

Sue said:


> Standing for the Brexit Party?


Yes indeed!


----------



## Sue (Nov 25, 2019)

belboid said:


> Yes indeed!


Is that a general RCP/Spiked thing then?


----------



## killer b (Nov 25, 2019)

Sue said:


> Is that a general RCP/Spiked thing then?


yeah, they crossed over into this reality during the Euros, manifesting in their final form as far-right politicians.


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2019)

Sue said:


> Is that a general RCP/Spiked thing then?


Using left wing language to do right wing things...sounds like their entire history. 

they’re completely mad keen on it


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Nov 25, 2019)

killer b said:


> It's Roger Godsiff's seat, and Godsiff is standing as an independent having been deselected by his CLP for being a massive homophobe - maybe they imagine that might split the vote?



I know. It’s the constituency I live in. The BP, ex-Pram member or not, won’t get any traction at all in it


----------



## killer b (Nov 25, 2019)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I know. It’s the constituency I live in. The BP, ex-Pram member or not, won’t get any traction at all in it


Sure, but they aren't going to get any traction anywhere else either.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Nov 25, 2019)

killer b said:


> Sure, but they aren't going to get any traction anywhere else either.



They’d have more traction in say, Erdington, than Hall Green.


----------



## belboid (Nov 25, 2019)

They’re standing in all labour seats. They don’t give a shit about the leave/remain vote in any particular constituency.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 26, 2019)

killer b said:


> yeah, they crossed over into this reality during the Euros, manifesting in their final form as far-right politicians.


Is it fair to describe the Brexit Party as 'far-right'?


----------



## killer b (Nov 26, 2019)

yes.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 26, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Is it fair to describe the Brexit Party as 'far-right'?





> fair


----------



## teuchter (Nov 26, 2019)

killer b said:


> yes.


How so?


----------



## andysays (Nov 26, 2019)

"it's so unfair"


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Nov 26, 2019)

teuchter said:


> How so?


See - their manifesto, the trajectory of some of their leading players and the bulk of their core support...... At very least “hard right Nationalists”


----------



## teuchter (Nov 26, 2019)

We're talking about the Brexit party politicians. I've looked at the manifesto. I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it 'far right'.


----------



## killer b (Nov 26, 2019)

no-one gives a shit mate.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 26, 2019)

killer b said:


> no-one gives a shit mate.


It's much the same as writing off leave voters as racist thickos.

I disagree with most of the things in the Brexit manifesto, but it's lazy just to dismiss them as 'far right'.

It's hardly a trivial accusation.


----------



## killer b (Nov 26, 2019)

killer b said:


> no-one gives a shit mate.


----------



## tim (Nov 26, 2019)

belboid said:


> you're right, Yosef David (unaffiliated as far as I can tell) has replaced him.
> 
> Alka Sehgal Cuthbert in East Ham looks like another one



She won't be getting my vote neither will Stephen Timms the homophobic Labourincumbent.  I shall have to think of an offensively creative means of spoiling my ballot.


----------



## imposs1904 (Dec 3, 2019)

Wasn't this bloke in Class War back in the day?

Corbyn’s ties with Islamists cannot be ignored


----------



## LDC (Dec 3, 2019)

imposs1904 said:


> Wasn't this bloke in Class War back in the day?
> 
> Corbyn’s ties with Islamists cannot be ignored



Yeah, he's been mentioned a bit on another thread. butchersapron and Pickman's model


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 3, 2019)

imposs1904 said:


> Wasn't this bloke in Class War back in the day?
> 
> Corbyn’s ties with Islamists cannot be ignored


yes


----------



## treelover (Dec 3, 2019)

This, the Paul Stott who posted on here? he always had a robust attitude to radical Islam.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2019)

The mystery tory voter?


----------



## tim (Feb 25, 2020)

Two of them on a panel of three, is taking the piss, in my opinion.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 25, 2020)

tim said:


> Two of them on a panel of three, is taking the piss, in my opinion.




Never heard of this group before but its obviously yet another RCP front. Reckon frank just stands in front a whiteboard armed with multicoloured markers every morning thinking up new names. Weird culty fuckers. God I hate spiked


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 25, 2020)

Glassman a prick as well. The only saving grace from when he helped nick timothy write that manifesto for may is that it was such a massive bag of shit


----------



## Smoking kills (Apr 2, 2020)

Claire Fox's new "Spectator" article "This is no time for "gotcha!" journalism" is an absolute classic! "Don't bully poor Boris, keep ignoring W.H.O. advice, your Govt. know what's best for you".


----------



## tim (Apr 3, 2020)

Smoking kills said:


> Claire Fox's new "Spectator" article "This is no time for "gotcha!" journalism" is an absolute classic! "Don't bully poor Boris, keep ignoring W.H.O. advice, your Govt. know what's best for you".



Some impressive entryism going on they took effective control of the Brexit Party, and now oozing their way into the Tories. They are properly prepared for power this time round.


----------



## Shechemite (Apr 3, 2020)

I keep on reading this thread title as RCP/Spiked/LOL

Which, I guess, is kind of what it is.


----------



## tim (Apr 3, 2020)

treelover said:


> This, the Paul Stott who posted on here? he always had a robust attitude to radical Islam.



You can see some of it in this 11 year old interview with Ian Bone

Anarchism In The UK #16: PAUL STOTT (CLASS WAR/MOVEMENT AGAINST THE MONARCHY)


----------



## belboid (Apr 21, 2020)

I was going to post the following as an unsurprising example of their right-wing quackery, after having seen someone elsewhere link to it. But then I went and looked at their front page and found it’s comparatively sane compared to the rest of the shite on there.









						‘There’s no direct evidence that the lockdowns are working’
					

Dr John A Lee on why we need to keep questioning the response to Covid-19.




					www.spiked-online.com


----------



## nogojones (Apr 21, 2020)

I saw there was an update to this thread and guessed that the post would be about one of this lot either calling for the end of lockdown or the wonders of herd immunity


----------



## petee (Apr 21, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> Very interesting read from the LRB a few years back:
> 
> Who Are They?



i remember reading that. i would never have to deal with them, over here, but i was glad i wouldn't have to.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 21, 2020)

tim said:


> You can see some of it in this 11 year old interview with Ian Bone
> 
> Anarchism In The UK #16: PAUL STOTT (CLASS WAR/MOVEMENT AGAINST THE MONARCHY)


It's spot the (ex)posters


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 21, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's spot the (ex)posters



Taxamo Hale


----------



## imposs1904 (Apr 21, 2020)

petee said:


> i remember reading that. i would never have to deal with them, over here, but i was glad i wouldn't have to.



I think Platypus have a little bit of the RCP/Spiked about them. I could see them attracting the same kind of posh student type to their ranks.


----------



## Smoking kills (Apr 22, 2020)

nogojones said:


> I saw there was an update to this thread and guessed that the post would be about one of this lot either calling for the end of lockdown or the wonders of herd immunity


One of my friends shared a Spiked article on Facebook yesterday. I commented, then got "Oh, but Bill Gates owns the W.H.O." from another poster. Told them to Google "Charles Foch Foundation". Original post deleted, result. Love this thread and all you baby eaters.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2020)

imposs1904 said:


> I think Platypus have a little bit of the RCP/Spiked about them. I could see them attracting the same kind of posh student type to their ranks.


Wasn't an anarchist  lecturer who posted on here connected to them ?


----------



## tim (Jun 7, 2020)

As they say, it takes one to know one. When I was at University the RCP were the most effective hecklers around. I remember them shouting down poor old Francis Pym when he came to tell us how cruel Thatcher had been to him. Now we get this from Fruedi


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jun 8, 2020)

tim said:


> As they say, it takes one to know one. When I was at University the RCP were the most effective hecklers around. I remember them shouting down poor old Francis Pym when he came to tell us how cruel Thatcher had been to him. Now we get this from Fruedi




Surely it hasn't taken Fruedi all this time to work out that it's easier to control a seminar room/tutorial than a public space/demonstration. Not much of an insight from the guru.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Lurdan (Jun 8, 2020)

Toppling Colston's statue was an act of intolerance - Brendan O’Neill - The Spectator (archived version)



> As they tore down the statue of the 17th-century merchant and slaver Edward Colston in Bristol yesterday, protesters were behaving like a woke Taliban. (...) It really did bring to mind the wide-eyed fervour with which Isis members destroyed the first-century Lion of Al-lat in Palmyra, again on the basis that the monument was hurtful, offensive, counter to their belief system.



ROFL


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 8, 2020)

Lurdan said:


> Toppling Colston's statue was an act of intolerance - Brendan O’Neill - The Spectator (archived version)
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL


He's retired hurt from Twitter


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jun 8, 2020)

imposs1904 said:


> Wasn't this bloke in Class War back in the day?
> 
> Corbyn’s ties with Islamists cannot be ignored


Yeah, he became a UKIP supporter and still appears to be on the far-right judging by his twitter account. Apparently he's a 'terrorism expert' and is now an academic. Must be a good earner.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jun 8, 2020)

Lurdan said:


> Toppling Colston's statue was an act of intolerance - Brendan O’Neill - The Spectator (archived version)
> 
> 
> 
> ROFL


Fucking hell, what a snowflake O'Neill is!


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2020)

Nothing if not predictable. Bravely contrarian. Ringpieces will ringpiece for $$$.

i wonder what Rod Liddle’s take on the situation will be. I could probably write it myself and barely get a word wrong.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 8, 2020)

Hilarious. I've hardly encountered a political grouping more inclined to collective hysteria and 'wide-eyed fervour' than the RCP.

Like calling things cults? Join our cult of calling things cults!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 8, 2020)

(source)


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 8, 2020)




----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 11, 2020)

Towards Britain’s Year Zero 

Never paid any attention to Spiked, but this is all over the place. Whinging and missing the point. Ugh.


----------



## treelover (Jun 11, 2020)

How is it missing the point, please expand.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 11, 2020)

I suppose the confusion between history and memorialisation, the belief in liberal conspiracy and that the act of taking the knee is the preface to tyranny... Just seems massively disconnected. The BAME experience today is glossed over. Weird stuff to me, unless I'm missing something.


----------



## Doodler (Jun 11, 2020)

eatmorecheese said:


> Towards Britain’s Year Zero
> 
> Never paid any attention to Spiked, but this is all over the place. Whinging and missing the point. Ugh.



What a bunch of snowflakes Spiked are. Toppling a statue is in the same tradition as anti-apartheid campaigners digging up cricket pitches and chucking ink over the Springboks players.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 15, 2020)

Bob's dunna pearoast









						The RCP's long march from anti-imperialist outsiders to the doors of Downing Street
					

This week it was announced that Munira Mirza  would be joining new prime minister Boris Johnson's team as head of Number 10’s policy unit....




					brockley.blogspot.com


----------



## Lurdan (Jun 16, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> > This week it was announced that Munira Mirza would be joining new prime minister Boris Johnson's team as head of Number 10’s policy unit


Munira Mirza is now 





> leading much of the work to form the commission on race and ethnic disparities announced by Boris Johnson on Sunday



The Guardian discusses the concerns which have been raised given her previous views on institutional racism.
Dismay as No 10 adviser is chosen to set up UK race inequality commission - The Guardian

They refer to her 2017 Spectator article  :
Theresa May’s phoney race war is dangerous and divisive - The Spectator (archived version)


> May and her ministers may lack the courage to halt the bandwagon, but there is cause for hope in the growing number of younger people from ethnic minority backgrounds who can see through the divisive politics of anti--racism. Their lived experience gives the lie to the idea of Britain as a fundamentally racist society. It is possible to acknowledge that racism still exists without turning its waning influence into the pretext for a bogus moral crusade that pollutes the public space with false accusations based on selective evidence. Despite the inevitable challenges of integrating millions of newcomers, Britain is a country that is conspicuously fair and tolerant by any reasonable standard.





> We have earned the right to focus on the positive.  For the Prime Minister to claim that we have a serious problem with racism really would be a burning injustice.



Back in 2017 Mirza criticized May and her advisers


> When she announced the audit last August, Mrs May dropped any pretence that she would wait to see the actual evidence by promising that it would ‘reveal difficult truths’. Her political advisers fondly imagine the audit will somehow improve the Conservative party’s relationship with BAME communities.



Of course 'politics as usual' is a very different matter when it's you that's on the inside pissing out. Illustrating that nothing much has changed, beyond the nature of the outcomes that are planned in advance and the communities it is hoped will be impressed by them, Mirza is reported as hoping "to recruit Trevor Phillips as part of the commission".

Up until 2018 she contributed a number of posts to the 'All In Britain' blog  


> an informal group of people from a wide range of social and ethnic backgrounds born in, and or living in the UK. We have come together because we believe there needs to be fresh thinking about the issues of race, identity, culture and politics in Britain today. We wanted to create a forum where we could discuss new ideas openly and consider the way forward.


Doubtless any resemblance between this project and any number of similar 'fronts' set up by members of the ex-LM network is entirely coincidental. </sarcasm>

Her last 'All In Britain' blog post entitled 'Weaponising victimhood', and written in response to the Windrush scandal, began :


> Trevor Phillips once said to me – only half joking – that newspapers should have identity correspondents, just as they have economics or environment correspondents. Certainly there appears to be an inexhaustible appetite on the part of media outlets for stories that focus on social divisions, real or imagined. Usually these are framed as moral parables featuring virtuous victims, usually female, ethnic minority or gay, and contemptible wrong-doers who are male, white or straight. Sometimes the perpetrator is institutional – often, as with the Windrush generation controversy, the British state itself.



No prizes for guessing where this is all going then.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 17, 2020)

Lurdan said:


> No prizes for guessing where this is all going then.



I'm more interested in where it all started.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 17, 2020)

Lurdan said:


> No prizes for guessing where this is all going then.


Other than kicked into the long grass I dont really know where this is meant to go - does anyone have an opinion?


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 17, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> I'm more interested in where it all started.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You can't help but wonder can you. She also did an M.A and PhD at University of Kent. In Sociology (after a B.A in Literature at Oxford), but I don't know if Ferudi was still there (actively) in 2004 (M.A) and 2009 (PhD).


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 18, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Other than kicked into the long grass I dont really know where this is meant to go - does anyone have an opinion?


Might tackle the issue of whether or not taking a knee comes from Game of Thrones


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jun 18, 2020)

Cry-bully and all round tosser Brendan O’Neill was this morning revealed pretending he hadn’t seen the thousands of forehead memes posted on the Twitter comments under every twattish contrarian article he has churned out recently. (Mockery being the only appropriate response to his effluent output) “A friend” sent him Twitter profile pictures of some of the meme spreaders. Apparently, according to O’Neill all the people posting were “ugly” and indulging in “anti-Irish racism”. Then Brendan “Right to be offensive” O’Knobhead appeared to be appealing for his mates to doxx and report his humorous tormentors. So much for the Spiked wankers much whined about “FreezePeach”.


----------



## rekil (Jun 18, 2020)

"Any footballer who said they did not want to wear Black Lives Matter on their shirt would be "utterly demonised, called racist and their career wouldn't survive. That's how intense the conformism around Black Lives Matter has become." 

I hope he has an on air contrarianism induced stroke.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 18, 2020)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> O’Knobhead appeared to be appealing for his mates to *doxx* and report his humorous tormentors. .



I had to Wiki-search "doxxing" to know what the hell it meant!


----------



## chilango (Jun 18, 2020)

It's amusing me to see the number of right-wingers retweeting spiked stuff simultaneously ranting about Marxist takeovers.

Looking forward to inevitable denouement.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 19, 2020)

Just had this suggested to me for breakfast by the algorithm


I didnt get that far into it as her attacking of identity politics reaks of her oxford privilege to me, but if you want to hear it from the horses mouth....

Video hosted on the seemingly very popular "free speech" Triggernometry channel, which is pure Spiked territory - anyone know anything about it?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 19, 2020)

I did not kill George Floyd 

An old friend keeps sending me this stuff. Today, another hysterical whinge click-baitey rant. The tyranny of anti-whiteness ffs


----------



## LDC (Jun 19, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Just had this suggested to me for breakfast by the algorithm
> 
> 
> I didnt get that far into it as her attacking of identity politics reaks of her oxford privilege to me, but if you want to hear it from the horses mouth....
> ...




Watched the first ten minutes, couldn't be bothered with the rest. Found the presenters are more annoying then her tbh.

Probably more suited to the thread on identity politics, but....

I think limited bits of what she says has commonalities with what Malik and others that are critical of multiculturalism and identity politics say as well. The differences come with where the next leap from that goes, she and others would replace it with liberal individualism and capitalism, those coming from the left would posit class and class struggle against capitalism as the better analysis.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jun 19, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Watched the first ten minutes, couldn't be bothered with the rest. Found the presenters are more annoying then her tbh.
> 
> Probably more suited to the thread on identity politics, but....
> 
> I think limited bits of what she says has commonalities with what Malik and others that are critical of multiculturalism and identity politics say as well. The differences come with where the next leap from that goes, she and others would replace it with liberal individualism and capitalism, those coming from the left would posit class and class struggle against capitalism as the better analysis.


Malik is perhaps the only one of the Spiked/RCP/LM crowd who is able to give an impression of having (ironically, given all their free thought/free speech whining) any independence of thought or intellectual depth - even so, when you dig down there is but a hairs breadth from the Furedi Party line, which his intellect and linguistic skill allow him to mask.


----------



## Micky D (Jun 19, 2020)

ska invita said:


> Just had this suggested to me for breakfast by the algorithm
> 
> 
> I didnt get that far into it as her attacking of identity politics reaks of her oxford privilege to me, but if you want to hear it from the horses mouth....
> ...



The two blokes who run the channel are avowedly anti socialist . The channel started under the guise of being neutral but the guest list gives the lie to that idea .


----------



## Micky D (Jun 19, 2020)

Furedi himself has a strange past . Escapes Stalinist Hungary has a staunchley anti communist father then pops up in Canada at Mcgill university ( itself the site of strange events - CIA ) late 60s early 70s then somehow ends up in Britain as a communist ( yeah right ) spends the next few years relentlessly attacking the Labour Party and having the RCP supporting the IRA even when they bomb working class British people . Controlled opposition , take yer pick which SS they work for


----------



## Micky D (Jun 20, 2020)

The far-left origins of No 10's desperate attack on all things 'woke' | Nick Cohen
					

Former communists are helping the Tories to heap contempt on their enemies




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## LDC (Jun 20, 2020)

Micky D said:


> The far-left origins of No 10's desperate attack on all things 'woke' | Nick Cohen
> 
> 
> Former communists are helping the Tories to heap contempt on their enemies
> ...



You've been a member here for 3 years and you have a grand total of 10 posts, 7 of which are on this thread...?


----------



## tim (Jun 20, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> You've been a member here for 3 years and you have a grand total of 10 posts, 7 of which are on this thread...?



Micky D may have a bone to pick, but if it is with Fuerdi and Co there is probably a good reason. I'm just amused by the blatant entryism. Having been in the RCP seems to fuse the advantage of having been to Eton and Oxford with that of being a Freemason 

Micky D 's next task should be to teach us the "Next Steps" - choreographed walk which enables members to identify each other on the street.


----------



## Micky D (Jun 20, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> You've been a member here for 3 years and you have a grand total of 10 posts, 7 of which are on this thread...?


Yeah ? And ? So ? What ?


----------



## treelover (Jun 20, 2020)

Micky D said:


> Furedi himself has a strange past . Escapes Stalinist Hungary has a staunchley anti communist father then pops up in Canada at Mcgill university ( itself the site of strange events - CIA ) late 60s early 70s then somehow ends up in Britain as a communist ( yeah right ) spends the next few years relentlessly attacking the Labour Party and having the RCP supporting the IRA even when they bomb working class British people . Controlled opposition , take yer pick which SS they work for



they had unusally expensive marketing materials!


----------



## treelover (Jun 20, 2020)

tim said:


> Micky D may have a bone to pick, but if it is with Fuerdi and Co there is probably a good reason. I'm just amused by the blatant entryism. Having been in the RCP seems to fuse the advantage of having been to Eton and Oxford with that of being a Freemason
> 
> Micky D 's next task should be to teach us the "Next Steps" - choreographed walk which enables members to identify each other on the street.



Did Clare Fox go to Oxbridge?


----------



## Micky D (Jun 20, 2020)

The Next Steps - its just a feint to the left then a jump to the right : )


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 20, 2020)

Micky D said:


> The Next Steps - its just a feint to the left then a jump to the right : )



Let's Do The Timewalk again?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 20, 2020)

As for Reading, I await more information


----------



## tim (Jun 20, 2020)

treelover said:


> Did Clare Fox go to Oxbridge?




American Literature at Warwick and a PGCE from Thames Poly. I don't think many of them are Oxbridge but they have each other and Uncle Frank.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 20, 2020)

treelover said:


> Did Clare Fox go to Oxbridge?


If only there was a _really easy way_ that someone _posting on an internet bulletin board_ could _swiftly find out basic biographical information_ about a person who has been in the public eye for a number of years


----------



## LDC (Jun 21, 2020)

Micky D said:


> Yeah ? And ? So ? What ?



Seems bit odd tbh that's all, especially when your posts are slightly conspiratorial in nature on this subject.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2020)

All posts about the RCP lot are by defaul conspiratorial. It is a  conspiracy after all.


----------



## Micky D (Jun 21, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Seems bit odd tbh that's all, especially when your posts are slightly conspiratorial in nature on this subject.


Whats it to you anyway ?


----------



## LDC (Jun 21, 2020)

Edited, fair enough killer b


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2020)

Chill out ffs


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 21, 2020)

eatmorecheese said:


> Towards Britain’s Year Zero
> 
> Never paid any attention to Spiked, but this is all over the place. Whinging and missing the point. Ugh.



I´ve looked at it a few times. It just seems like the Daily Mail with pseudo-intellectual pretensions, wretchedly genuflecting in the face of power.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 21, 2020)

tim said:


> American Literature at Warwick and a PGCE from Thames Poly.



Not forgetting in the middle of these two she attended PNL (Polytechnic of North London) where she signed on for a course for 5 minutes in order to take a place on the student exec as Woman's Officer and then one of the three Vice-President positions. At the same time other RCP members were 'encouraged' to become students at PNL too. I know this because one of them was a friend of mine who sadly died not long after from a brain hemorrhage. While there they did their best to disrupt other (other?) student left groups such as the SWP who had built up a base largely due to and following on from the Harrington campaign from which PNL had gained a radical reputation.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 21, 2020)

killer b said:


> Chill out ffs



what’s with all this ‘chill out’ stuff? MadeInBedlam has just told me to chill out.

when did U75 become a place to hang and chill?


----------



## Shechemite (Jun 21, 2020)

Ok


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2020)

Smokeandsteam said:


> what’s with all this ‘chill out’ stuff? MadeInBedlam has just told me to chill out.
> 
> when did U75 become a place to hang and chill?


Its sunday.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 21, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> Not forgetting in the middle of these two she attended PNL (Polytechnic of North London) where she signed on for a course for 5 minutes in order to take a place on the student exec as Woman's Officer and then one of the three Vice-President positions. At the same time other RCP members were 'encouraged' to become students at PNL too. I know this because one of them was a friend of mine who sadly died not long after from a brain hemorrhage. While there they did their best to disrupt other (other?) student left groups such as the SWP who had built up a base largely due to and following on from the Harrington campaign from which PNL had gained a radical reputation.


I took my parents(!) to an IFM talk at (then) UNL


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 21, 2020)

killer b said:


> Its sunday.


Dammit Wierzbowski - this is U75 - ALWAYS ON DUTY


----------



## LDC (Jun 21, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> Dammit Wierzbowski - this is U75 - ALWAYS ON DUTY



Never let that anger slip or before you know it you'll be dancing at rainbow rhythms and drinking kombucha.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2020)

What's wrong with kombucha??


----------



## LDC (Jun 21, 2020)

killer b said:


> What's wrong with kombucha??



Nothing, it's yeasty tea and sugar or something. But IT DOESN'T CURE ANYTHING no matter what the hippies say.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 28, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> You can't help but wonder can you. She also did an M.A and PhD at University of Kent. In Sociology (after a B.A in Literature at Oxford), but I don't know if Ferudi was still there (actively) in 2004 (M.A) and 2009 (PhD).



Oh and apparently he was. There's a profile of her on Radio4 right now. They just moved seamlessly from "she worked closely with Ferudi at Kent" to "but becoming disillusioned with the revolutionary Left went to work with a right wing think tank" - as you do.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 28, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> Not forgetting in the middle of these two she attended PNL (Polytechnic of North London) where she signed on for a course for 5 minutes in order to take a place on the student exec as Woman's Officer and then one of the three Vice-President positions. At the same time other RCP members were 'encouraged' to become students at PNL too. I know this because one of them was a friend of mine who sadly died not long after from a brain hemorrhage. While there they did their best to disrupt other (other?) student left groups such as the SWP who had built up a base largely due to and following on from the Harrington campaign from which PNL had gained a radical reputation.


Pseuds or pseudo-gang?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 28, 2020)

planetgeli said:


> Not forgetting in the middle of these two she attended PNL (Polytechnic of North London) where she signed on for a course for 5 minutes in order to take a place on the student exec as Woman's Officer and then one of the three Vice-President positions. At the same time other RCP members were 'encouraged' to become students at PNL too. I know this because one of them was a friend of mine who sadly died not long after from a brain hemorrhage. While there they did their best to disrupt other (other?) student left groups such as the SWP who had built up a base largely due to and following on from the Harrington campaign from which PNL had gained a radical reputation.


Must have been after my time there . I’ve told this loads of times , they used to try and sponge off the left who were trying to do something about the fash at PNL without contributing themselves to the campaign against Harrington . One early afternoon got fed up with them so we put their bookstall in the lift ,one of their lot , a woman flung herself somewhat dramatically at the bookstall protecting the books so we simply pressed the lift button . Her and her bookstall went to the ground floor .


----------



## Micky D (Jul 5, 2020)

I could be wrong but the RCP seem to have popped up here there and everywhere


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 5, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Must have been after my time there .



1988 was her (Fox) year of entry I think. She was woman's officer following on from Liza or the year after. Maybe 89 but we think 88. Just after you?


----------



## eoin_k (Jul 7, 2020)

Good to see Sp!ked among the network of Conservative media outlets that have been caught out publishing articles by fake journalists:








						Right-Wing Media Outlets Duped by a Middle East Propaganda Campaign
					

Conservative sites like Newsmax and Washington Examiner have published Middle East hot takes from “experts” who are actually fake personas pushing propaganda.




					www.thedailybeast.com
				



.

Sp!ked isn't mentioned in the article by name, but on Twitter the author has pointed out a number of articles on Sp!ked by fake journalist Joyce Toledano:




__





						Joyce Toledano, Author at spiked
					






					web.archive.org


----------



## nogojones (Jul 7, 2020)

Micky D said:


> View attachment 220996
> I could be wrong but the RCP seem to have popped up here there and everywhere


Who's RCP in that picture? It doesn't look like their 80's style


----------



## tim (Jul 7, 2020)

It's Clair Fox sitting on Ghislaine Maxwell who in turn is sitting on a young Brendan O'Neill. Ghislaine cut her links with the RCP after suspecting Furedi of having rocked her dad's boat just a little bit to much.


----------



## Micky D (Jul 7, 2020)

nogojones said:


> Who's RCP in that picture? It doesn't look like their 80's style


I could be wrong but i think its this bloke


----------



## LDC (Jul 7, 2020)

tim said:


> It's Clair Fox sitting on Ghislaine Maxwell who in turn is sitting on a young Brendan O'Neill. Ghislaine cut her links with the RCP after suspecting Furedi of having rocked her dad's boat just a little bit to much.



Really? Do you have a reliable source for that photo tim as it doesn't look like either O'Neill or Fox. And Fox didn't go to Oxford.


----------



## belboid (Jul 7, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Really? Do you have a reliable source for that photo tim as it doesn't look like either O'Neill or Fox. And Fox didn't go to Oxford.


Somehow I doubt Ms Fox would have been allowed into the Chelsea Arts Club Ball, not in 1985 or any other year.


----------



## tim (Jul 7, 2020)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Really? Do you have a reliable source for that photo tim as it doesn't look like either O'Neill or Fox. And Fox didn't go to Oxford.



People change as they age, and the photo was taken at the Chelsea Arts Club not in Oxford. Anyway, who else could it be? It must be one of them, otherwise Micky D wouldn't have posted it.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 7, 2020)

Tim's having a laugh. Claire Fox isn't in that picture.


----------



## nogojones (Jul 7, 2020)

Micky D said:


> I could be wrong but i think its this bloke



If that is him, he would also have been RCP in 85. Plus since then a bit of Spiked writing, anti-anthropocene contrarianism and founder of the  _Journal of Intervention and Statebuilding_ (or bombin' and robbin'). Just how many of these fuckers are out there?


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 13, 2020)

Today's Times :

Parental failings ‘spawned an infantilised generation’ - Times (paywalled - text of article in spoiler)



> A failure by parents and schools to enforce boundaries has spawned a generation of “infantilised” millennials and fuelled identity politics, according to a new book by a sociology professor. An unwillingness to chastise children or use moral-based judgments has left young people “disorientated” as they have been deprived of a natural process of navigating or chaffing against rules set by adults, Frank Furedi argues.





Spoiler: text of article



Greg Hurst, Social Affairs Editor
Monday July 13 2020, 12.01am, The Times

A failure by parents and schools to enforce boundaries has spawned a generation of “infantilised” millennials and fuelled identity politics, according to a new book by a sociology professor.

An unwillingness to chastise children or use moral-based judgments has left young people “disorientated” as they have been deprived of a natural process of navigating or chaffing against rules set by adults, Frank Furedi argues.

The emeritus professor of sociology at Kent University said the dismantling of boundaries has occurred over three or four generations and weakened the process of socialisation by which parents transit values to their children.

“Children develop by reacting against those lines, the boundaries that are set, and that is a very creative process to gain self sufficiency and intellectual independence,” he said.

“If what’s happening now is they are kicking against open doors, which is really what is going on, then the whole developmental process becomes compromised and you do end up with a situation where the transition from childhood to adolescence takes much, much longer than ever before and the transition from adolescence to adulthood also takes much longer.”

The result, Professor Furedi said, is that millennials in their twenties behave as they did in their mid-teens. His book, Why Borders Matter, says another of the boundaries to have been blurred is that between children and adults; he described seeing a man in a T-shirt with the slogan “I’m done with adulting”.

“Mothers take their 18-year-olds shopping and it’s their daughter that tells them what to wear, not the other way around. Fathers wear the same T shirt [as their sons], listen to the same music — [there is] almost this conscious effort not to be a father to your child or a mother but to be their best friend, which is not what children need.

“They can make their best friend with their peers. They need somebody that can look up to, somebody that can inspire them. There is this estrangement from adulthood.”

He said that, similarly, the debate on transgender rights had challenged the binary distinction between men and women, just as in politics the boundary between public and private lives has become blurred.

Professor Furedi argued that the dismantling of moral boundaries has created a paradox. Young people who have grown up without them abhor others who make moral judgments.

But the millennial generation has, he says, created borders of its own, notably the concept of “safe spaces” from which they ban people whose views clash with their own, and has embraced an inherently judgmental identity politics.

He said: “The thing about identity politics is that every expression they use is actually a contradiction. They talk about diversity — that’s one of the key values of identity politics — but identity politics is totally hostile to a diversity of viewpoints. So if you argue a different narrative to what they are arguing that is seen as racist, as offensive, as hate.”


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 13, 2020)

Lurdan said:


> Today's Times :
> 
> Parental failings ‘spawned an infantilised generation’ - Times (paywalled - text of article in spoiler)
> 
> ...



This "sudden social decline because of dissolute youth/pampering parents" has been a trope in Western civlisation since at least Greece and Rome. It is well documented in Geoffrey Pearson´s "Hooligan: a history of respectable fears."


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2020)

'Infantilised' is also becoming the RCP (they'll always be the RCP to me) word of the day. Fox used it at least twice last week on Radio 4.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jul 13, 2020)

Such a load of shit. I bet he doesn't even bother to engage with the extensive studies about positive rather than negative reinforcement. But there's always some reason this generation are 'infantilised' for some reason.

Why does no-one write about the boomer generation being 'infantilised' by being given shitloads of free money in the form of house price growth? Attached to the tit of financialised housing markets forever, believing themselves to be responsible adults who made their own money, no-one daring to pop their delusional bubble.

I'm not saying that's the narrative I would choose, but it would be just as valid as this shit, possibly more so.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2020)

isvicthere? said:


> This "sudden social decline because of dissolute youth/pampering parents" has been a trope in Western civlisation since at least Greece and Rome. It is well documented in Geoffrey Pearson´s "Hooligan: a history of respectable fears."


Long long time since I read it but Is pampering parents well documented in Pearson's book? Lack of parental discipline yes, no respect for elders yes, affluent teenage/young adult lifestyles  yes but I'm not sure about pampered parents. If it is then surely 1960s onwards?


----------



## two sheds (Jul 13, 2020)

Brainaddict said:


> Such a load of shit. I bet he doesn't even bother to engage with the extensive studies about positive rather than negative reinforcement. But there's always some reason this generation are 'infantilised' for some reason.
> 
> Why does no-one write about the boomer generation being 'infantilised' by being given shitloads of free money in the form of house price growth? Attached to the tit of financialised housing markets forever, believing themselves to be responsible adults who made their own money, no-one daring to pop their delusional bubble.
> 
> I'm not saying that's the narrative I would choose, but it would be just as valid as this shit, possibly more so.


That led to a generation of entitled sociology professors writing silly books.


----------



## tim (Jul 13, 2020)

Searching on Google for "Claire Fox" and "infantilised", I came up with 451 matches. "claire fox" infantilised - Google Search

I did the same search with Frank Furedi and came up with 18,900 matches




__





						"Frank Furedi" infantilised - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 13, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Long long time since I read it but Is pampering parents well documented in Pearson's book? Lack of parental discipline yes, no respect for elders yes, affluent teenage/young adult lifestyles  yes but I'm not sure about pampered parents. If it is then surely 1960s onwards?



I read it 30+ years ago, so my memory may not be pristine. His main argument, l think, was that delinquency is often perceived by the establishment to be other and foreign, and frighteningly recent (usually a span of 20 years).


----------



## NoXion (Jul 13, 2020)

Does Furedi have any kids of his own? Because one thing I've noticed about the kind of people who whinge about "young people today" is that they hardly ever seem to be parents themselves.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 13, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Does Furedi have any kids of his own?



Just Claire Fox and Munira Mirza.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 13, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Does Furedi have any kids of his own? Because one thing I've noticed about the kind of people who whinge about "young people today" is that they hardly ever seem to be parents themselves.


He does.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 13, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> He does.



Well, so much for that hypothesis. Anyways, Millennials aren't being infantilised. We just recognise that being an adult can fucking suck. Hence the "I'm done with adulting".

One of the great things about being a legal adult, is not having to worry about being so grown-up all the time. It's actually a mark of immaturity in my opinion to be so pre-occupied with strait-laced, po-faced notions of "being a grown-up". It's the brattier cousin to the teenage notion that being dark and cynical and miserable = adult.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 13, 2020)

isvicthere? said:


> I read it 30+ years ago, so my memory may not be pristine. His main argument, l think, was that delinquency is often perceived by the establishment to be other and foreign, and frighteningly recent (usually a span of 20 years).


Yes, it was a good read about generational moral panics about youth  over the centuries


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 14, 2020)

eoin_k said:


> Good to see Sp!ked among the network of Conservative media outlets that have been caught out publishing articles by fake journalists:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Makes a change from them shilling for the Koch Foundation, the right-wing, anti-public healthcare "charity" that funds them.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 14, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> He does.
> 
> View attachment 222110
> 
> View attachment 222116



lol.

I remember that cupcake fascism article. In fairness, it’s one of the worst things ever published.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 14, 2020)

Jeff Robinson said:


> lol.
> 
> I remember that cupcake fascism article. In fairness, it’s one of the worst things ever published.


Worse than Hurricane Force Gogarty?


----------



## kavenism (Jul 14, 2020)

Lurdan said:


> Today's Times :
> 
> Parental failings ‘spawned an infantilised generation’ - Times (paywalled - text of article in spoiler)
> 
> “Children develop by reacting against those lines, the boundaries that are set, and that is a very creative process to gain self sufficiency and intellectual independence,” he said.



I don't think this is a particularly controversial point and it’s been made in various different forms for a very long time. Hobbes uses the analogy with water which stagnates if bounded in too tightly and which dissipates if left without any boundaries at all.

He was talking about Law, whereas Furedi is talking in a looser sense about normative culture generally. This is where I think he’s mistaken. The societies of the most developed economies are more regulated and in more diverse ways than at any time in human history.

I think detraditionalization is a better way of understanding the shifts in (non-state) based societal regulation, which is more to do with the depersonalisation of authority than a lack of “rules”.

Also, Furedi completely ignores how disempowered people generally and young people especially are in contemporary society. There's precious little scope for creative self fashioning outside of the limited scope of Neoliberal values. How can an 18-year-old be expected to develop a strong sense of self and autonomy in a dying world where any prospects you might have are linked to abandoning your critical faculties, jettisoning your soul and assimilating yourself into the death machine?

I’d stay a child under those circumstances.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 14, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> Worse than Hurricane Force Gogarty?



Oooh tough one. Does the  Gogarty article have a line as bad as “The constellation of cultural tropes that most paradigmatically manifest in the form of the cupcake are associated in particular with infantilisation.”?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 14, 2020)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Oooh tough one. Does the  Gogarty article have a line as bad as “*The constellation of cultural tropes that most paradigmatically manifest in the form of the cupcake are associated in particular with infantilisation.*”?



That even fails to be 'contrarian', it's that meaningless!


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 14, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Does Furedi have any kids of his own? Because one thing I've noticed about the kind of people who whinge about "young people today" is that they hardly ever seem to be parents themselves.



true in my case


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 31, 2020)

A peerage for Claire Fox, what a time to be alive.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 31, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> A peerage for Claire Fox, what a time to be alive.


Thank god I have lived to see this day.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jul 31, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> A peerage for Claire Fox, what a time to be alive.


They'll be dancing in the corridors at MI5 HQ tonight.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 31, 2020)

contrarians , shitbags and grafters.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 31, 2020)

_the long march through the institutions _reaches its destination?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 31, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> A peerage for Claire Fox, what a time to be alive.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 31, 2020)

Idris2002 said:


> They'll be dancing in the corridors at MI5 HQ tonight.


Jumping - well, stretching upwards, a bit - for joy at BAT


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 31, 2020)

The RCP, _Preparing for Power _since 1983.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 31, 2020)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 31, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 224527


(An actual Fox-mandated text back in the day BTW  )


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 1, 2020)

Broadly accurate piece from today, but nothing new:









						Why Boris Johnson's Tories fell for a tiny sect of libertarian provocateurs | Andy Beckett
					

The combative contrarian rhetoric of the defunct RCP has long been all over the media. Now it’s in No 10 as well, says Guardian columnist Andy Beckett




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## eoin_k (Aug 1, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 224527



I prefer the one by Paul Gilroy et al for Birmingham CCCS.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 3, 2020)

Fox hunts Ermine. 

(must try harder )


----------



## tim (Aug 16, 2020)

Wilf said:


> Fox hunts Ermine.
> 
> (must try harder )



But at least she supports the people on thee streets in Minsk



Three decades ago she would have been  backing the dictators and his enforcers

Poison in the well of history


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 26, 2020)

First Clare Fox now Frank Furedi sure the resurgent SDP (long since taken over by a UKIP splinter aren't an appealing target for and RCP intervention?  

Also interesting to see the pivot towards borders from the former sponsors of the let them all in movement


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 26, 2020)

One of Fox's earliest political projects:


----------



## tim (Oct 10, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> Hilarious. I've hardly encountered a political grouping more inclined to collective hysteria and 'wide-eyed fervour' than the RCP.
> 
> Like calling things cults? Join our cult of calling things cults!



Claire Fox accused me of sexism last night on Twitter because I said she was a member of a Furedi led cult. She also said that Furedi was a great thinker and recommend his books. I then got told off by Heartfield who assured the world that Claire would use the platform to argue for what is "right".


----------



## belboid (Oct 10, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> One of Fox's earliest political projects:


Not that early, she joined the scabs in the late seventies


----------



## Micky D (Oct 21, 2020)

The case for Trump
					

Daniel McCarthy on what is really at stake in the US election.




					www.spiked-online.com
				




Brendans scraped a new low


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 21, 2020)

One of the issues I have with Spiked is that whilst often they raise a point that may have a grain of truth to it , or at least a suggestion of one,   its submerged into a swamp of bile. Normally written by someone who contributes nothing to any practical alternative activity and never offering a way forward. In their world the term working class is something to be uttered in faux outrage but never engaged or given any  agency . 









						The Lockdown Left: socialists against society
					

The Tories have crushed living standards, health and liberty, and the left has supported them all the way.




					www.spiked-online.com


----------



## killer b (Oct 21, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> One of the issues I have with Spiked is that whilst often they raise a point that may have a grain of truth to it , or at least a suggestion of one,   its submerged into a swamp of bile. Normally written by someone who contributes nothing to any practical alternative activity and never offering a way forward. In their world the term working class is something to be uttered in faux outrage but never engaged or given any  agency .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's because their arguments aren't in good faith.


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 10, 2020)

Bit of fun... Claire Fox attacks Brexit Bill opponents then accidentally votes against it

Claire Fox attacks opponents of Brexit bill - before accidentally voting against it


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 10, 2020)

billy_bob said:


> Bit of fun... Claire Fox attacks Brexit Bill opponents then accidentally votes against it
> 
> Claire Fox attacks opponents of Brexit bill - before accidentally voting against it


Par for the course.


----------



## belboid (Nov 10, 2020)

DaveCinzano said:


> Par for the course.


Says one thing, does the other, yup, classic Claire.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 10, 2020)

One day I'll dig out my RCP, ELWAR, CAM and IFM notebooks


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 10, 2020)

It's possible it wasn't an accident - if someone said to her, after she'd spoken in support of it, 'It's good that you're voting for it' she would immediately have to vote against it.


----------



## hitmouse (Dec 23, 2020)

For the dedicated Spiked-watcher, someone's just found an internal bulletin from 1995, just before the RCP was finally wound up.


----------



## Micky D (Dec 23, 2020)

Talk about trolling ffs


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2021)

decent bit about the 'midnight in the century' period









						Towards ‘Midnight in the century’: the RCP in 1989-90
					

Back in 2017, the Spiked website treated us to a retrospective on former Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP) leader Frank Furedi’s ‘radical life’. This offered a refreshingly innovative take on his…




					communistpartyofgreatbritainhistory.wordpress.com
				




It's conclusion:
_‘Midnight in the century’ was thus an attempt by the RCP to step back from its self-inflicted idiocy and to preserve the sect leadership of Furedi, responsible for dreaming up a silly utopia of the ‘revolutionary nineties’. Never before was the call for ‘Enlightenment’ prefaced by such silly trifles. _


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 13, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> One of Fox's earliest political projects:


I was briefly in the Bradford group, hosted at my friend's dad's house....
I'd completely forgotten about that.
I never forgot Adam though 
He was my first ginger crush.


I went trumpeting round Leeds on a demo with them all


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jan 13, 2021)

tufty79 said:


> I was briefly in the Bradford group, hosted at my friend's dad's house....
> I'd completely forgotten about that.
> I never forgot Adam though
> He was my first ginger crush.
> ...


Remember Erik? Rocking the Columbine trenchcoat look 🤣


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 13, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Remember Erik? Rocking the Columbine trenchcoat look 🤣


I can't even.....


Could I gently DM you about all the updated and sorted weirdness vortex that you and me seem to be swirling down, please DaveCinzano ?


----------



## tufty79 (Jan 13, 2021)

I just got so overwhelmed by synchrinistic everything including you, that I've accidentally kicked myself out the meeting and lost the reentry link 

Fgs


----------



## tim (Feb 19, 2021)

Here is Claire Fox to remind you of how awful being stuck in a pub with a drunk nostalgic can be.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 19, 2021)

Bemused this week by this pre-RCP campaign to erect a monument to the H-block hunger strikers outside Hackney Town Hall:









						Monument plan for H Block prisoners in Hackney (1981)
					

A TV news item on the culture war about a statue – from November 1981. The clip reports on the scandal around a campaign for the construction of a monument to ten dead Irish Republican hunger…




					hackneyhistory.wordpress.com


----------



## nogojones (Feb 19, 2021)

tim said:


> Here is Claire Fox to remind you of how awful being stuck in a pub with a drunk nostalgic can be.



Fucking hell. I don't think I've seen her talk before. Only ever heard her on R4 (for like 30 seconds or so before I start shouting "fuck off!" and turn the radio off). Does she normally look that scary?


----------



## Sue (Feb 19, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Bemused this week by this pre-RCP campaign to erect a monument to the H-block hunger strikers outside Hackney Town Hall:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's very random. Next to the war memorial perhaps...?


----------



## Wilf (Feb 20, 2021)

nogojones said:


> Fucking hell. I don't think I've seen her talk before. Only ever heard her on R4 (for like 30 seconds or so before I start shouting "fuck off!" and turn the radio off). Does she normally look that scary?


Strangely enough, I also have a 30 second watershed when it comes to listening to her:



Wilf said:


> Claire Fox passess the Turing Test for a few sentences. When I saw her for the first time on some programme or other she didn't seem to have a swivel eyed appearance and her speech had a reasonably normal cadence.  Then thirty seconds in, you think 'I must have heard that wrong', another few sentences and you are still thinking you might be misunderstanding her.  Then the awful truth dawns - she's the full trumpet.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 20, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Bemused this week by this pre-RCP campaign to erect a monument to the H-block hunger strikers outside Hackney Town Hall:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Also this:


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 20, 2021)

nogojones said:


> Fucking hell. I don't think I've seen her talk before. Only ever heard her on R4 (for like 30 seconds or so before I start shouting "fuck off!" and turn the radio off). Does she normally look that scary?



'A place where you can _natter_ ... you can _actually_ sit round and put the world to rights with mates'.

Distinct impression here that she's repeating something she's learned by rote as the sort of thing people would say in this situation.

Uncanny valley


----------



## LDC (Feb 20, 2021)

Fucking hell that Unlocked UK Twitter is horrendous. What a parade of horrible pricks.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 20, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> 'A place where you can _natter_ ... you can _actually_ sit round and put the world to rights with mates'.
> 
> Distinct impression here that she's repeating something she's learned by rote as the sort of thing people would say in this situation.
> 
> Uncanny valley


My personal experience is that she does not _natter_ with you, she _actually_ just harangues you in a mean-spirited and bullying way.


----------



## billy_bob (Feb 20, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> My personal experience is that she does not _natter_ with you, she _actually_ just harangues you in a mean-spirited and bullying way.



Well, exactly. I assume putting the world to rights in the pub with Claire Fox means nodding mutely while she does just that. She might permit occasional brief, timed forays into what's happening in the world of football, I guess, just to give the impression that she's _of the people_.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 19, 2021)

Who could have predicted, etc


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 19, 2021)

Partner: Who are Spiked?

Me: [as quick an explanation as I could manage].

Her: WTF.

Me: Yeah. Er why do you ask?

Her: Because I just read two articles from them on the killing of Sarah Everard and they seem like complete cunts.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Who could have predicted, etc



I caught the start of the Moral Maze the other day, and was surprised there was no former RCP panel member as they're contractually obliged to supply. Then I idly googled who this cunt 'comedian' Andrew Doyle was, and all was right with the world again.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> [as quick an explanation as I could manage].


this is an issue. it's extremely difficult to do this concisely.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 19, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Partner: Who are Spiked?
> 
> Me: [as quick an explanation as I could manage].
> 
> ...


You can give her this


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 19, 2021)

This town ain’t big enough for the both of us


----------



## hitmouse (Mar 19, 2021)

killer b said:


> this is an issue. it's extremely difficult to do this concisely.


I dunno, Fozzie's partner seems to have managed quite a concise and accurate summation there?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 19, 2021)

I look forward to Contessa di Fox, Jonathan Pie's understudy, Forty Winks Furedi and Brenda No-Kneel all positing fascinating explanations on why KILL THE BILL is the wrong thing to be organising around, and completely different to when they were organising around KILL THE BILL.







			https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/resources/images/10562739.jpg?display=1&htype=0&type=responsive-gallery


----------



## planetgeli (Mar 19, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> I look forward to Contessa di Fox, Jonathan Pie's understudy, Forty Winks Furedi and Brenda No-Kneel all positing fascinating explanations on why KILL THE BILL is the wrong thing to be organising around, and completely different to when they were organising around KILL THE BILL.
> 
> View attachment 259390
> 
> ...



Fox will do it as part of a double bill with 'why the House of Lords is a different entity now'


----------



## flypanam (Mar 29, 2021)

Andrew Doyle getting his time in the shade again, this time on the Inside Politics podcast from the Irish Times Inside Politics - Is free speech under threat? taking about Free Speech which is pretty easy thing to do if you're one of the GB NEWS anchors or stars. Always interesting that these spike lot are never introduced as such. Instead they get a free reign to introduce themselves as 'struggling oxford student...blah blah blah teacher...moved to London to move in with a wealthy old woman who was my patron' but never mention Uncle Frank.

Anyway armchair interview arguing that universities (and I suppose Arts and Social sciences) are an existential threat to billionaries right to do anything they want.*

*I listened to it at 2am fell asleep 10 minutes in.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 31, 2021)

Report today from Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities denies institutional racism in Britain. The commission was set up by Munira Mirza, a former RCPer: 









						Race report: 'UK not deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities'
					

But one racial equality organisation says it feels "deeply, massively let down" and the government has lost trust.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Mar 31, 2021)

Over half the commissioners who produced the report are Order of the British Empire.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 31, 2021)

When the British Empire Orders you to whitewash you start by asking where the paint is


----------



## 19force8 (Apr 3, 2021)

A new breed of columnist for SP!KED?









						The real divide is class, not ‘generations’
					

Talk of lucky Boomers and put-upon Millennials is the product of a middle-class bubble.




					www.spiked-online.com


----------



## marty21 (Apr 3, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Partner: Who are Spiked?
> 
> Me: [as quick an explanation as I could manage].
> 
> ...


A very reasonable reaction .


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 3, 2021)

19force8 said:


> A new breed of columnist for SP!KED?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She'll write for just about anyone tbh , RT. The Guardian etc .Dont think she gets paid?


----------



## nogojones (Apr 3, 2021)

19force8 said:


> A new breed of columnist for SP!KED?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Class War, RT, then spiked. There's a trajectory there for sure.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 3, 2021)

19force8 said:


> A new breed of columnist for SP!KED?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Her doing stuff for RT didn't feel right, but Spiked?! FFS.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 3, 2021)

Really don't know how she squares having a mixed race son and writing for a publication that produces stuff like this: The myth of ‘institutional racism’

Must've gone conservative.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 3, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> Really don't know how she squares having a mixed race son and writing for a publication that produces stuff like this: The myth of ‘institutional racism’
> 
> Has she gone conservative?


How does she square being pro working class/anti middle class and writing for the Guardian? God knows, perhaps there's a genuine shortage of decent outlets to write for/in. and she will write for anyone. It's what she writes rather than who she writes for thats more important imo. Don't always agree with her politics but she's certainly not  gone or going Tory


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 3, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> How does she square being pro working class/anti middle class and writing for the Guardian? God knows, perhaps there's a genuine shortage of decent outlets to write for/in. and she will write for anyone. It's what she writes rather than who she writes for thats more important imo. Don't always agree with her politics but she's certainly not  gone or going Tory


She may aswell write for Breitbart or the Daily Star if she's gonna do so for the likes of Spiked. Jeezus.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 3, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> How does she square being pro working class/anti middle class and writing for the Guardian? God knows, perhaps there's a genuine shortage of decent outlets to write for/in. and she will write for anyone. It's what she writes rather than who she writes for thats more important imo. Don't always agree with her politics but she's certainly not  gone or going Tory


Personally I don't respect someone who will write for anyone. Have some fucking integrity and backbone for fuck sake.

Who else is she gonna write for? The Spectator? The Daily Heil? The Sun?


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 3, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> Personally I don't respect someone who will write for anyone. Have some fucking integrity and backbone for fuck sake.
> 
> Who else is she gonna write for? The Spectator? The Daily Heil? The Sun?


The only paper I won't read on principle is the Sun because of Hillsborough. I think most people can read a paper and pick and choose the bits they agree with or don't agree with. Who would you suggest she should write for btw?


----------



## ska invita (Apr 4, 2021)

She's long down that path. Reposted shit spiked content more than once. Stopped following her on social media a while back now as it's a car crash

I'm not going to get into it but her book has some dodgey stuff against migrants who moved onto the estate she talks about, being less deserving than the generation of earlier Caribbean migrants she aligns with. 
Dont have a copy anymore but it's towards the end. 

Not trying to convince anyone with this post but she's off my list after giving her several blies.


----------



## killer b (Apr 4, 2021)

Yeah, anyone surprised at Mckenzie writing for spiked hasn't had even half an eye on her trajectory over the last few years.


----------



## chilango (Apr 4, 2021)

Like ska invita I stopped following her a while back.

Sadly, it's a well trodden trajectory these days. The disgust at the m/c liberal "left" has led some to embrace increasingly reactionary positions to mark their distinction from the "liberals".

Brexit (and the behaviour of some vocal remainders) really accelerated this. Follow this with a  desire not to get drawn into the "m/c side" on the culture wars, the whole "red wall" mythology and so and you have a really toxic environment where it's all to easy to lose sight of stuff.


----------



## JTG (Apr 4, 2021)

Another one overly attached to class as a cultural signifier rather than an economic position is my impression. Never really liked her stuff tbh and it's increasingly outdated and shit iyam


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 4, 2021)

I'm not a big fan of hers, mainly because aside from railing against the middle class her politics don't actually lead to anything in practice aside from advocating riots. . However, her book was a good warts and all read and I am looking forward to her Tales from the Lockdown. I fail to see that the content of her article in Spiked, which despite being short makes a reasonable point, offers any evidence that she is long down some insidious sounding path.


----------



## chilango (Apr 4, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> I'm not a big fan of hers, mainly because aside from railing against the middle class her politics don't actually lead to anything in practice aside from advocating riots. . However, her book was a good warts and all read and I am looking forward to her Tales from the Lockdown. I fail to see that the content of her article in Spiked, which despite being short makes a reasonable point, offers any evidence that she is long down some insidious sounding path.



In isolation it may well be a reasonable point. But in the context of here and now it offers "w/c cover" for the "stop whining you millennial snowflakes" current in the culture wars.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 4, 2021)

chilango said:


> In isolation it may well be a reasonable point. But in the context of here and now it offers "w/c cover" for the "stop whining you millennial snowflakes" current in the culture wars.


The culture wars are where its all at


----------



## chilango (Apr 4, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> The culture wars are where its all at



They are.

That's the problem.


----------



## nogojones (Apr 4, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> I'm not a big fan of hers, mainly because aside from railing against the middle class her politics don't actually lead to anything in practice aside from advocating riots. . However, her book was a good warts and all read and I am looking forward to her Tales from the Lockdown. I fail to see that the content of her article in Spiked, which despite being short makes a reasonable point, offers any evidence that she is long down some insidious sounding path.


It's about giving left cover to the bullshit that Spiked  spouts "we cover current affairs from a radical, democratic, pro-freedom and humanist perspective"


----------



## ska invita (Apr 4, 2021)

.. And if anyone criticises her it's because they can't handle a PFWC voice. Crudest essentialism.


----------



## JTG (Apr 4, 2021)

Just stumbled across her twitter feed and she's still spending 90% of her energy shouting about how working class she is. She reckons that by writing in Spiked she's getting her work read by w/c people. Yeah alright.
Completely irrelevant person writes same shit article she always does in fash adjacent publication but it's fine cos she's more working class than you. I think that's how it goes.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 4, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Who would you suggest she should write for btw?


All I know is that I wouldn't give toxic, right-wing shite like that the time of day.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 4, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> The only paper I won't read on principle is the Sun because of Hillsborough.


So you will read the other two nazi sympathizer rags I mentioned?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 4, 2021)

nogojones said:


> "we cover current affairs from a radical, democratic, pro-freedom and humanist perspective"


Such as denying the existence of institutional racism and spewing out god knows what other toxic shit?

Somehow I don't think they would print stuff that acknowledged the existence of institutional racism.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 4, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> So you will read the other two nazi sympathizer rags I mentioned?



Occasionally I do read articles in them that I think I might find interesting.  Having been an active antifascist and left winger for all my adult life I don't really feel that think I am on that slippery slope or 'that path' tbh .In the same way as reading the Guardian has never made me drift into concerned lifestyle liberalism.


----------



## RD2003 (Apr 4, 2021)

Clearly, the issue here is not what she actually says but _what she might, just might, really be thinking,,,_


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 4, 2021)

It's not. It's where she says what she says - and what that says about what she says. And you hate her for being a pink haired faker anyway.

There is no hint here of the usual w/c are secret racist stuff, always thinking bad stuff of the middle class terror-grammar. It's just banal boring nothing crap.


----------



## rekil (Apr 6, 2021)

Just saw her RT piece on the Colston statue. Pure spikedworthy rubbishness.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 6, 2021)

She seemed to be involved in stirring up some considerable acrimony on a local issue here in Brixton. Mentioned in the comments on this article. Involved some form of attack on one of my local councillors who has been pretty good on many things and dragged in some people who post on u75. Pretty hard to figure out what the whole story was here but it looked to me like a very unhelpful intervention.









						Demolition – is your estate next? Local councillors, housing activists, researchers and journalists discuss Lambeth policy
					

Last month we reported that two local groups were joining forces to highlight the social housing crisis in Lambeth by holding regular meetings to “keep the public informed, and maintain round…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 6, 2021)

Ah well , another rise and fall of another one time  urban favourite


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 6, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Mentioned in the comments on this article...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My head is now throbbing, cheers for that


----------



## JTG (Apr 6, 2021)

rekil said:


> Just saw her RT piece on the Colston statue. Pure spikedworthy rubbishness.
> 
> View attachment 261982


You made me go look. Inconsequential drivel that says "but what about these other things" and calls everything she doesn't like middle class


----------



## splonkydoo (Apr 7, 2021)

JTG said:


> You made me go look. Inconsequential drivel that says "but what about these other things" and calls everything she doesn't like middle class





The39thStep said:


> Ah well , another rise and fall of another one time  urban favourite



I'm waiting for the next book.. . 

'Lass War: One Working-Class Woman's Account of Statues, Twitter Wars, & Cereal Cafés


----------



## rekil (Apr 8, 2021)

Proper full on loon bollocks tailor made for RT. 'As a sociologist'. jfc.









						I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but how does a bloke in a Chewbacca bikini outwit the nation’s finest and storm the Capitol?
					

It’s hard to believe how the angry mob of Trump supporters managed to do what they did yesterday and the absence of police and security guards. Was this the deep state’s final humiliation of a president it hated?




					www.rt.com
				






> He promised to clean up Washington, to drain the swamp, and to vanquish ‘the deep state’. But he failed miserably. And what if Wednesday, 14 days before he was due to depart the White House, was the deep state’s revenge, a stage-managed show designed to humiliate him and his supporters, and to reveal them in their true, disgusting colours?  And put paid to ‘Orange Man’ forever?
> 
> I’m no conspiracy theorist, but it makes sense to me. Certainly, my sociological analysis thus far in this ever changing and dynamic situation is that the unleashing of the angry mob onto Capitol Hill was a good day for the forces of conservatism, the Washington elite, both Republican and Democrat, who have loathed Trump with a passion since he dared raised his coiffured head above the political parapet.





> how is it possible that a couple of thousand of badly dressed and quite frankly weird folks break into the USA’s centre of power?


Isn't this snobbery about clothes a little bit _m-m-m-m-middle class_.


----------



## JTG (Apr 8, 2021)

Funny how none of the working class academics I've known have felt the need to describe themselves as working class academics. Probably didn't see it as their primary selling point


----------



## chilango (Apr 8, 2021)

JTG said:


> Funny how none of the working class academics I've known have felt the need to describe themselves as working class academics. Probably didn't see it as their primary selling point



There's a whole bunch of stuff being organised under the network/label of "working class academics". Some useful, some less so. There's a strong tendency to view at as identity rather than position, which limits it imho.


----------



## JTG (Apr 8, 2021)

chilango said:


> There's a whole bunch of stuff being organised under the network/label of "working class academics". Some useful, some less so. There's a strong tendency to view at as identity rather than position, which limits it imho.


No problem with organising along those lines obviously but labelling yourself as such every time you speak your brains unto the world is a little limiting. As you just said I guess


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 8, 2021)

rekil said:


> Proper full on loon bollocks tailor made for RT. 'As a sociologist'. jfc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


An exciting new form of "I'm not [x], but..." there.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 8, 2021)

JTG said:


> No problem with organising along those lines obviously but labelling yourself as such every time you speak your brains unto the world is a little limiting. As you just said I guess


For me anyway, it seems that Dr McKenzie more and more tends to use and see the notion of working class as an identity rather than a relationship to the means of production.  While there is the role of cultural capital to take into account, some people do go too far down the route of lifestyle signifiers. Ketchup and mushy peas.  That’s not a measure of class in and of itself, so it’s frustrating when people abandon economic relationship for culture as their yardstick.

In theory Dr McKenzie sells her labour for a wage, making her working class by that measure, and her background is working class, but your Dad being a miner doesn’t make you one.

She works as a lecturer at a Russell Group university and, with a doctorate, can expect an average of around £48k a year.  I’m not in favour of racing to the bottom, but I think if you gave her title, occupation and salary, and asked around the area she grew up, people would be more likely to say she _came from a working class background_ as opposed to still being working class.  She could certainly put aside enough money to own property she doesn’t directly use. And if she lives in the North East of England, her housing will be cheaper than it would be in London.

That all probably goes towards explaining why she plays up the identity side of things more now. Note, I’m not saying that you can’t be working class and have a degree. Nor that you can’t be working class and work in education (I did). Just that she seems a little like she doth protest too much these days.


----------



## TopCat (Apr 8, 2021)

JTG said:


> Funny how none of the working class academics I've known have felt the need to describe themselves as working class academics. Probably didn't see it as their primary selling point


Academia has been an upper middle class game for a long time. It’s rare to have anyone rattling their cages, someone amongst them.

It’s not surprising your academic contacts did not emphasis being working class. It’s does not help in that arena.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 9, 2021)

I would not say it's "rare" to find people from working class backgrounds in academia. It's not the norm but it's not rare.


----------



## tim (Apr 9, 2021)

Blagsta said:


> Turns out someone I know is friends with Claire Fox and others from associated groups on Facebook. I made a comment about disliking Claire Fox and attracted the attention of other IoI types. They seem a bit weird, almost cult like, they certainly don't like criticism! Reminds me a bit of the scientologists.
> 
> Any had any experiences with them?


Wa Prince Philip in the RCP?


----------



## tim (Apr 9, 2021)

tim said:


> Wa Prince Philip in the RCP?




Is that Iain Macwhirter the son of Ross who was murdered by the IRA?


----------



## rekil (Apr 9, 2021)

Looks like her baronessness is _offended._


----------



## petee (Apr 9, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I would not say it's "rare" to find people from working class backgrounds in academia. It's not the norm but it's not rare.



i know one ...


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2021)

tim said:


> Is that Iain Macwhirter the son of Ross who was murdered by the IRA?


No.  Scottish journalist and commentator.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 9, 2021)

That's quite funny because I especially recall she had very fruity opinions about e.g. Mountbatten etc 🤣


----------



## TopCat (Apr 9, 2021)

Is Phillip getting shit on Twitter then?


----------



## strung out (Apr 9, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Is Phillip getting shit on Twitter then?


Been cancelled by the Twitterati


----------



## tim (Apr 9, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Is Phillip getting shit on Twitter then?



It's worse than that TC


----------



## Sue (Apr 9, 2021)

tim said:


> It's worse than that TC



So disrespectful. I'm pretty sure you're meant to capitalise 'queen'. He's lost my vote  .


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2021)

Even they couldn't praise Prince Philip, could they?  Of course they could









						A very human prince
					

Prince Philip refused to obey the rules of modern moral etiquette.




					www.spiked-online.com


----------



## Favelado (Apr 10, 2021)

belboid said:


> Even they couldn't praise Prince Philip, could they?  Of course they could
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They're so boring. They remind me of the Onion article where Marilyn Manson goes door-to-door shocking people.


----------



## ska invita (Apr 10, 2021)

Favelado said:


> They're so boring. They remind me of the Onion article where Marilyn Manson goes door-to-door shocking people.


i dont think they're trying to shock though - its more insidious than that


----------



## tim (Apr 10, 2021)

belboid said:


> Even they couldn't praise Prince Philip, could they?  Of course they could
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's not them, It's the voice of the Great Leader himself. 



> We had a good laugh about the irrational impulse to ban anything that seems ‘too risky’. It was clear to me that he understood the threat posed by the culture of precaution to British society.



Frank and Phil were like two chips off the same old spud. And given the success of his movement, he has every right to be the next Royal Consort


----------



## nogojones (Apr 10, 2021)

tim said:


> Is that Iain Macwhirter the son of Ross who was murdered by the IRA?


That was not what should be remembered for. He should be remembered for the prize cunt him and his brother were. 

I have no problems with the IRA's actions on this one.


----------



## tim (Apr 10, 2021)

nogojones said:


> That was not what should be remembered for. He should be remembered for the prize cunt him and his brother were.
> 
> I have no problems with the IRA's actions on this one.


Stealing poor Roy's limelight and making him look stupid.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (May 5, 2021)

Well well Well. What an amazing coincidence that two independent anti-LTN council candidates in North London should both turn out to be linked with our favourite libertarian network?









						Anti-LTN independent candidates deny creating new political party
					

Two "independent" by-election candidates have denied they are forming a party despite sharing a newly launched platform.




					www.hackneygazette.co.uk
				




“Are you saying I'm part of a conspiratorial network?”


----------



## tim (May 5, 2021)

I've been cancelled by Spiked.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 5, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Well well Well. What an amazing coincidence that two independent anti-LTN council candidates in North London should both turn out to be linked with our favourite libertarian network?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's quite funny, for reasons I don't really want to get into because these people tend not to have a sense of humour


----------



## nogojones (May 5, 2021)

Wouldn't it be a hoot if it turned out they were just playing the long game. Preparing for power, using money siphoned from the Kock brothers, big tobacco and the oil companies and investing it in guillotine makers. They already seem to be in charge of the state broadcaster and are making inroads into the institutions of power using deep enterist tactics. I look forward to the day comrade Fox's mask slips and she starts popping off the captains of industry on prime time telly.


----------



## tim (May 5, 2021)

nogojones said:


> Wouldn't it be a hoot if it turned out they were just playing the long game. Preparing for power, using money siphoned from the Kock brothers, big tobacco and the oil companies and investing it in guillotine makers. They already seem to be in charge of the state broadcaster and are making inroads into the institutions of power using deep enterist tactics. I look forward to the day comrade Fox's mask slips and she starts popping off the captains of industry on prime time telly.



The Red Baroness


----------



## flypanam (Jun 2, 2021)

I notice that zero books are publishing Alex Hochuli’s book, on the end of the end of history. Hochuli has written for spiked, was working at the university of Kent. Zer0 have published the likes of, Jenni Bristow, Nagle and Gittos. Has Zer0 become Spiked publishing arm?


----------



## charlie mowbray (Jun 2, 2021)

Where are they now?
Bruno Waterfield joined the Anarchist Communist Federation as a young man in the late 1980s. He subsequently left to join the platformist Anarchist Workers Group (ha) and then like most of the AWG joined the Revolutionary Communist Party which morphed into the even more horrendous Spiked/ Institute of Ideas. He's still a Spiked heavy as well as being for the last couple of decades Brussels editor for first the Daily Telegraph and then the Times (wha?)


----------



## charlie mowbray (Jun 2, 2021)

Where are they now? No.2
Duleep Allirajah was a member of the Direct Action Movement in the 1980s. He  then also joined the AWG, and then went to the RCP, Institute of Ideas/Spiked. He still writes a sports column for Spiked. He works for MacMillan Cancer Support


----------



## charlie mowbray (Jun 2, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> Yeah, he became a UKIP supporter and still appears to be on the far-right judging by his twitter account. Apparently he's a 'terrorism expert' and is now an academic. Must be a good earner.


Paul Stott, not just a supporter but a member of UKIP by 2015. He's now a member of the Henry Jackson Society, neocon think tank linked to Priti Patel and Michael Gove


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2021)

charlie mowbray said:


> Paul Stott, not just a supporter but a member of UKIP by 2015. He's now a member of the Henry Jackson Society, neocon think tank linked to Priti Patel and Michael Gove


Employee and member


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jun 2, 2021)

charlie mowbray said:


> Paul Stott, not just a supporter but a member of UKIP by 2015. He's now a member of the Henry Jackson Society, neocon think tank linked to Priti Patel and Michael Gove


Can't say I'm surprised. What a wanker.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 2, 2021)

flypanam said:


> I notice that zero books are publishing Alex Hochuli’s book, on the end of the end of history. Hochuli has written for spiked, was working at the university of Kent. Zer0 have published the likes of, Jenni Bristow, Nagle and Gittos. Has Zer0 become Spiked publishing arm?


For anyone who hasn't been following, Zer0 split in 2014, with most of the people who made it decent leaving to found Repeater, and they have had a bit of a tendency to publish any old shite since then. Although I think the Heartfield book on WWII they published was before the Zero/Repeater bust up anyway?

Also, for RCP/Spiked watchers, found a great unexpected RCP connection the other day - you might remember that back in the 90s, RATM used a picture of a big pile of books as part of the artwork for Evil Empire. Saw a copy of the book recommendation list they assembled to go with it the other day, and you'll never guess who's on there:


Spoiler


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2021)

Chris Harman & AlexCallinicos too


----------



## ska invita (Jun 2, 2021)

flypanam said:


> I notice that zero books are publishing Alex Hochuli’s book, on the end of the end of history. Hochuli has written for spiked, was working at the university of Kent.


Are you sure this book is verboten? Looking at Alex Hochulis bits for spiked they were 11 years ago now and fairly inoffensive. The book is the product of the Aufhebunga Bunga podcast group. Ive listened to that a few times, not found anything objectionable


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 2, 2021)

I definitely think of him as being a prick, can't remember exactly why though and I just thought of him as common-or-garden-dickhead rather than a specifically Spikey one. Seems like one of those people who's much more interested in sneering at other people for not doing class politics than in actually doing class politics from what I remember, would have to dig a bit to remember what else I dislike about him.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 2, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Are you sure this book is verboten? Looking at Alex Hochulis bits for spiked they were 11 years ago now and fairly inoffensive. The book is the product of the Aufhebunga Bunga podcast group. Ive listened to that a few times, not found anything objectionable


I guess I’m judging him by the company he keeps he does that pod with Philip Cunliffe who still is at the Uni of Kent. Seems he was at the Ioi in 2016. Basically it smells a bit spiked.


----------



## tim (Jun 14, 2021)

They've set up an inquiry into the lockdown. Not on their own, However, they've brought Lawrence Fox onboard to give themselves some much needed intellectual heft

Welcome to the Inquiry - Laurence Fox - People's Lockdown Inquiry

I can't imagine what conclusion they could possibly come to.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 2, 2021)

Some good news for a change.









						‘I would stake my life on Labour losing in Batley’
					

Rod Liddle on Labour’s meltdown and why it has further to fall.




					www.google.co.uk
				




Can we use the trebuchet? Can we?


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 2, 2021)

tim said:


> They've set up an inquiry into the lockdown. Not on their own, However, they've brought Lawrence Fox onboard to give themselves some much needed intellectual heft
> 
> Welcome to the Inquiry - Laurence Fox - People's Lockdown Inquiry
> 
> I can't imagine what conclusion they could possibly come to.


There's no actual family connection between Foxes C & L, is there?


----------



## chilango (Jul 2, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> There's no actual family connection between Foxes C & L, is there?


Not yet.


----------



## Gramsci (Aug 7, 2021)

teuchter said:


> She seemed to be involved in stirring up some considerable acrimony on a local issue here in Brixton. Mentioned in the comments on this article. Involved some form of attack on one of my local councillors who has been pretty good on many things and dragged in some people who post on u75. Pretty hard to figure out what the whole story was here but it looked to me like a very unhelpful intervention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes I remember this. Looking at these pages about her and thought the name was familiar.

The I'm a working class academic got to me. ASH as well.

Really put me off them.

When it comes down to local community stuff one IMO works with well  meaning people who might not be hardened lefties like her. But might actually know more about the area that some so called working class academic like her.

What surprised me was that someone who is a trained to study society does not listen to others. Not have the humility to not wade into a local area and instead actually step back and listen.


----------



## chilango (Sep 11, 2021)

They're using today (9/11) to describe Al Qaeda as "woke".


----------



## Brainaddict (Sep 11, 2021)

chilango said:


> They're using today (9/11) to describe Al Qaeda as "woke".


I saw that. Absolutely beyond parody.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 11, 2021)

chilango said:


> They're using today (9/11) to describe Al Qaeda as "woke".


Desperately scraping the barrel for more sharks to jump.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 11, 2021)

The man who could pass for the Hulk's arch-nemesis, the Leader, offers this analysis (with emphasis on the first 4 letters) on 9/11.


----------



## isvicthere? (Sep 11, 2021)

nino_savatte said:


> The man who could pass for the Hulk's arch-nemesis, the Leader, offers this analysis (with emphasis on the first 4 letters) on 9/11.
> View attachment 287840



"Woke" fundamentalist muslims?! WTAF?!


----------



## belboid (Sep 11, 2021)

isvicthere? said:


> "Woke" fundamentalist muslims?! WTAF?!


Brendan O’Neil uses a newsthump headline generator to determine his columns content these days


----------



## 8ball (Sep 11, 2021)

It’s very odd.  I took a look at the article and there’s some quite interesting stuff about Bin Laden’s interest in and influence from the Western counter-cultural scene of the late 90’s and interest in environmental concerns (I wonder about some disingenuousness on the latter one).

Applying the “w” word is clearly total bollocks and if the idea is to attract people to the article clickbait-style, it seems rather daft.


----------



## hitmouse (Sep 11, 2021)

nino_savatte said:


> The man who could pass for the Hulk's arch-nemesis, the Leader, offers this analysis (with emphasis on the first 4 letters) on 9/11.


I still think my favourite ever piece of identity politics victimhood was when O'Neill said it was racist to make fun of his big head. I hope Wokey O'Neill isn't going to do a major terror attack to get back at the west over it.


----------



## isvicthere? (Sep 12, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> I still think my favourite ever piece of identity politics victimhood was when O'Neill said it was racist to make fun of his big head. I hope Wokey O'Neill isn't going to do a major terror attack to get back at the west over it.



He is_ such_ a dick. When he appears on TV with a Sex Pistols "God save the queen" poster flanked by Union flags behind him, he probably thinks he is being provocatively iconoclastic. But what this combo actually does is scream, "Twat!"


----------



## charlie mowbray (Oct 26, 2021)

"In the 1980s, the Revolutionary Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were rivals, both contesting a number of elections. Now two former RCP members are speaking at the conference of the (reconstituted) SDP in 2021. https://t.co/WikoAmIgXA

— Evan Smith (@evanishistory) October 25, 2021"


----------



## charlie mowbray (Oct 26, 2021)

The SDP of today of course, is a tiny rump party headed by William Coulson, and including people like Rod Liddle and Giles Fraser. A nasty little bunch. And the Spiked members speaking at this will be Frank Furedi and Baroness Fox.


----------



## belboid (Oct 26, 2021)

charlie mowbray said:


> The SDP of today of course, is a tiny rump party headed by William Coulson, and including people like Rod Liddle and Giles Fraser. A nasty little bunch. And the Spiked members speaking at this will be Frank Furedi and Baroness Fox.


Liddle and Fraser are raving communists compared to the (also speaking) David Starkey, Lionel Shriver and David Goodhart.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 26, 2021)

You have to wonder what the aim is of the SDP. They're not going to do well in elections outside of Bridlington, but there could be a kind of half life as a kind of centre right Compass equivalent.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 8, 2021)

Brief mention of Zero Books on the last page - they have now been bought out by Repeater books. Repeater was set up by some of the original founders of Zero who got pissed off with it.

Also a brief mention of the 1990s Anarchist Workers Group on the last page. Splits and Fusions blog have a post on them now and PDFs of all the issues of their magazine:








						The Anarchist Workers Group
					

The Anarchist Workers Group has long held a fascination for me since I first encountered them intervening in the SWP’s Marxism event around 1990. The first issue of their magazine, Socialism …




					splitsandfusions.wordpress.com


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 8, 2021)

The RCP make a very RCP cameo appearance in this article about Kathleen Stock and the UCU:


> Things were to escalate further with Brand revelling in being a scientific racist in the pages of The Independent in April 1996, stating, ‘It is scientific fact that black Americans are less intelligent than white Americans and the IQ of Asians is higher than blacks.’ and, ‘I am perfectly proud to be a racist in the scientific sense.’
> 
> The students’ response was to walk out of his classes, begin a boycott of them, and send a letter of complaint to the then departmental head, Robert Grieve. The University responded that, as Brand’s views were inside the law, they would not act. This parallels the Stock situation, where students and others attempted to use internal procedures to raise their concerns but to no avail.
> 
> ...


----------



## ska invita (Nov 8, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Brief mention of Zero Books on the last page - they have now been bought out by Repeater books. Repeater was set up by some of the original founders of Zero who got pissed off with it.
> 
> Also a brief mention of the 1990s Anarchist Workers Group on the last page. Splits and Fusions blog have a post on them now and PDFs of all the issues of their magazine:
> 
> ...


Im not sure if that's precisely accurate.. Zero are owned by a conglomerate, as are Repeater, and Repeaters congomerate bought Zero. Not sure what this means if anything to the editorial line


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 8, 2021)

Alex Niven seems pretty positive about it:


----------



## ska invita (Nov 8, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Alex Niven seems pretty positive about it:



That sounds good. The report I read said Watkins (repeaters owner) bought out John Hunt (zeros owner)








						Watkins Media owner Ilfeld buys John Hunt Publishing
					

Entrepreneur Etan Ilfeld, owner of the Watkins Media Group, has bought John Hunt Publishing (JHP) for an undisclosed sum.




					www.thebookseller.com
				




Sounds like Repeater are pulling strings tho


----------



## belboid (Nov 8, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> The RCP make a very RCP cameo appearance in this article about Kathleen Stock and the UCU:


And they did it again with Stock.  Fox herself took the lead this time.  Hopefully Malik learnt his lesson (tho I doubt it)


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 8, 2021)

ska invita said:


> That sounds good. The report I read said Watkins (repeaters owner) bought out John Hunt (zeros owner)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think this is up there as among the funniest non-sequiteur replies I've seen to anything:


I'd never really thought of like... Islamic mystic bots(?) being a thing, but perhaps they are.


----------



## Sue (Nov 8, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> I think this is up there as among the funniest non-sequiteur replies I've seen to anything:
> 
> 
> I'd never really thought of like... Islamic mystic bots(?) being a thing, but perhaps they are.



Well I for one am really not up for the abolishing shirk[ing] thing.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 8, 2021)

Abolish shirk, abolish work.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 8, 2021)

It appears that shirk in Islam is idolatry though. Every day is a school day.

The nearest any of this lot get to idolatry is with the late Mark Fisher I guess.


----------



## Sue (Nov 8, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It appears that shirk in Islam is idolatry though.* Every day is a school day.*
> 
> The nearest any of this lot get to idolatry is with the late Mark Fisher I guess.


It is indeed.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 8, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It appears that shirk in Islam is idolatry though. Every day is a school day.
> 
> The nearest any of this lot get to idolatry is with the late Mark Fisher I guess.


Fisher of souls > Sellers of Fisher


----------



## belboid (Nov 10, 2021)

More on the Zer0 buyout.  These guys sound rather less impressed









						Year Zero, Again?: An Assessment of Zer0 Books 2.0 - Cosmonaut
					






					cosmonautmag.com


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 10, 2021)

Are we seeing the Great Schism between Catholic and Orthodox Fisherians here?


----------



## Idris2002 (Nov 10, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> For anyone who hasn't been following, Zer0 split in 2014, with most of the people who made it decent leaving to found Repeater, and they have had a bit of a tendency to publish any old shite since then. Although I think the Heartfield book on WWII they published was before the Zero/Repeater bust up anyway?
> 
> Also, for RCP/Spiked watchers, found a great unexpected RCP connection the other day - you might remember that back in the 90s, RATM used a picture of a big pile of books as part of the artwork for Evil Empire. Saw a copy of the book recommendation list they assembled to go with it the other day, and you'll never guess who's on there:
> 
> ...


Hmmm. Well I found fabulous Frank's Mau Mau book to be barely readable (don't think I finished it, in fact), but thsoe who work in African history tell me that it's considered a solid contribution to the study of the Mau Mau war. Not that I would know (I wasn't able to finish it).


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 10, 2021)

thanks belboid 

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Atzmon thing was post-Fisher but that would appear not to be the case.


----------



## belboid (Nov 11, 2021)

Idris2002 said:


> Hmmm. Well I found fabulous Frank's Mau Mau book to be barely readable (don't think I finished it, in fact), but thsoe who work in African history tell me that it's considered a solid contribution to the study of the Mau Mau war. Not that I would know (I wasn't able to finish it).


an academic work that is valuable but barely readable? Whatever next!


----------



## belboid (Nov 11, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Are we seeing the Great Schism between Catholic and Orthodox Fisherians here?


So you're saying the new lot are Pope Urban?  We better be on their side then.


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 11, 2021)

I did manage to get through the whole Zero article this evening, but it did really make me feel that everyone involved definitely needs to touch grass, even more so than is usual with these things.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 11, 2021)

belboid said:


> So you're saying the new lot are Pope Urban?  We better be on their side then.


And best smash the Patriarchy


----------



## tim (Feb 3, 2022)

Munira Mirza has abandoned the sinking shit.

Boris Johnson's policy chief Munira Mirza resigns over PM's Savile remarks



> In her resignation letter, published by The Spectator, she wrote: "You are a better man than many of your detractors will ever understand, which is why it is so desperately sad that you let yourself down by making a scurrilous accusation against the leader of the opposition."


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 3, 2022)

tim said:


> Munira Mirza has abandoned the sinking shit.
> 
> Boris Johnson's policy chief Munira Mirza resigns over PM's Savile remarks


Boris “money spent on child abuse investigations ‘spaffed up a wall’” Johnson is a better man than we’ll ever understand.

Aye. So he is.


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 10, 2022)

Politics Theory Other podcast has an episode about the RCP/Spiked lot here


----------



## rekil (Mar 10, 2022)

O'Neill's latest slithery turdreckon about laurie penny's latest slithery turdbook contains this 24 carat nugget of truth.



> ...rape culture is so insidious that we don’t even see it. It’s just there, everywhere, doing its deadly work, training blokes like me to be gross, entitled pussy-molesters without us even realising it.



Thoughts and prayers in advance to anyone who ends up having to share a post nuke hellhole with him babbling away about 'why it's time to break the woke cannibalism taboo' and so on.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 10, 2022)

rekil said:


> Thoughts and prayers in advance to anyone who ends up having to share a post nuke hellhole with him babbling away about 'why it's time to break the woke cannibalism taboo' and so on.


Like anyone going into a bomb shelter would let him in, much less stay 🤣

#elbowsandthroatpunches


----------



## rekil (Mar 10, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Like anyone going into a bomb shelter would let him in, much less stay 🤣
> 
> #elbowsandthroatpunches


The spectator probably has a bunker so he'd be holed up with a gaggle of likeminded souls. The dizzying hellbound spiral of oneupcuntship would be quite something.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 10, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> Politics Theory Other podcast has an episode about the RCP/Spiked lot here



Not listened to this yet. Any good? I am hoping for some big LoLs..


----------



## killer b (Mar 10, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Not listened to this yet. Any good? I am hoping for some big LoLs..


Do you think there's lols to be had with these guys anymore? They're hacks and weirdos, but they have managed to get themselves into a position where their agenda is taken serious by - and sometimes drives - the media and government of this country.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 10, 2022)

rekil said:


> Thoughts and prayers in advance to anyone who ends up having to share a post nuke hellhole with him babbling away about 'why it's time to break the woke cannibalism taboo' and so on.



The woke set have a cannibalism taboo now?  Twitter is going to be a bit quiet.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 10, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Not listened to this yet. Any good? I am hoping for some big LoLs..



Big IoI’s, as they’d put it.


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 10, 2022)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Not listened to this yet. Any good? I am hoping for some big LoLs..


I enjoyed the conversation about RCP ideas about the state and how that has informed their thinking throughout. Not massive IoIs, no


----------



## belboid (Mar 11, 2022)

Plumdaff said:


> Politics Theory Other podcast has an episode about the RCP/Spiked lot here


Well that was fairly dull.  A few things oddly omitted. They say they weren’t sure when Mirza became involved with the network, but she has said it was when Furedi was overseeing her dissertation, so it should be easily dateable.  They omit any mention of their vile position around AIDS (just a moral panic to put us off sex) which predated the big shift (acc to the show) during the miners strike.  

Most oddly, there is no mention at all of how LM was forced to shutdown after losing its libel case against ITN. They present the move as a political choice.  Odd.


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 11, 2022)

I think I’ll give it a miss. I know enough about Spiked, thanks.  And though I used to enjoy PTO, I’ve not listened in ages as I grew bored of the style.  It very much relies on having an engaging guest.  Which I’m not prepared to expend any effort in finding out.


----------



## belboid (Mar 11, 2022)

The guest is perfectly reasonable and, other than the above mentioned, it’s a decent history of mainly pre-spiked times but I doubt it’s anything you don’t know already.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 11, 2022)

belboid said:


> Most oddly, there is no mention at all of how LM was forced to shutdown after losing its libel case against ITN. They present the move as a political choice.  Odd.


I mean, my take was always that the black polo necks pragmatically _chose_ to wind up the print mag, because they saw which way the wind was blowing, print is expensive, and political parties unfashionable (plus
various key cadres were already financially fingers-in-the-pie with online stuff, paid punditry and event organisation).

What I find curious about the Omarska debacle is that in 1994 Campaign Against Militarism (RCP front group) was propagandising around a photo exhibition about the presentation of visual tropes to push a certain response; namely, emaciated people photographed and filmed by Western media crews the other side of a tall fence, evoking 1945 camp liberation footage. Pretty sure even then it was 'in association' with sister magazine _Novo_.

The contention at the time was that the fence seen on the cover of the _Mirror_ and in ITN bulletins was not one which fully enclosed the prisoners, but instead was effectively visual shorthand chosen by the journalists to frame their story.

My recollection is that at the time CAM/RCP did not deny that these were prisoners and that they were detained within a camp from which they could not leave, but instead focused on what it saw as the misrepresentation of the specific fencing seen in frame (as in the journalists could have walked around the fence but chose to interview the prisoners through the wire).

Over the next couple of years the cadres seemed to double down, and kept doubling down, to the point that they were arguing that the camp now wasn't really a camp at all, and that the prisoners were not really prisoners, until eventually they got a response.


----------



## chilango (Mar 11, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I think I’ll give it a miss. I know enough about Spiked, thanks.  And though I used to enjoy PTO, I’ve not listened in ages as I grew bored of the style.  It very much relies on having an engaging guest.  Which I’m not prepared to expend any effort in finding out.



I've read a few things by Evan and he"s generally decent (good stuff on campus no platforming) if a little rooted in the IS tradition from what I can see. No idea what he'd be like on radio.


----------



## imposs1904 (Mar 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> I've read a few things by Evan and he"s generally decent (good stuff on campus no platforming) if a little rooted in the IS tradition from what I can see. No idea what he'd be like on radio.



Is the IS his political background? I always thought (guessed, tbh) that he had a soft spot for 'official' communism.


----------



## chilango (Mar 11, 2022)

imposs1904 said:


> Is the IS his political background? I always thought (guessed, tbh) that he had a soft spot for 'official' communism.



Don't know tbh. Just a gut feeling based on his Twitter feed.


----------



## Lurdan (Mar 11, 2022)

On his blog there's a useful list of online archives and resources. (Pointed me to some stuff I wasn't aware was online). FWIW the choices of what is included don't particularly suggest IS to me.


----------



## danny la rouge (Mar 11, 2022)

imposs1904 said:


> Is the IS his political background? I always thought (guessed, tbh) that he had a soft spot for 'official' communism.


Naw, more like “I used to read Chomsky but then I read the Grundrisse”.  He used to be a MediaLens board user.


----------



## chilango (Mar 11, 2022)

...anyway, his stuff is usually alright!


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 11, 2022)

His two books on British Trotskyism are good as is the CP and Race  one


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 2, 2022)

A tonne of scans of Living Marxism magazine have been added to the Splits and Fusions archive FWIW









						Living Marxism- the mag they could not gag!
					

February and March proved to be very busy months. In addition to several visits to various archives, I also did two very large scanning jobs and a few smaller ones, which I will discuss soon. Fortu…




					splitsandfusions.wordpress.com


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 2, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> A tonne of scans of Living Marxism magazine have been added to the Splits and Fusions archive FWIW
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There was a copy of this cover on the wall in my school classroom 🤣


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 2, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> There was a copy of this cover on the wall in my school classroom 🤣


Weird school?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 2, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Weird school?


In many ways 👍


----------



## belboid (Apr 3, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> In many ways 👍


----------



## imposs1904 (Apr 3, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> There was a copy of this cover on the wall in my school classroom 🤣
> 
> View attachment 316835



Did your teacher sport a fashionable hair cut and wear expensive black jeans? Were they known to haunt the high street on a Saturday morning with a clipboard in hand? In short, were they a cunt?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 22, 2022)

ska invita said:


> I'm not going to get into it but her book has some dodgey stuff against migrants who moved onto the estate she talks about, being less deserving than the generation of earlier Caribbean migrants she aligns with.
> Dont have a copy anymore but it's towards the end.


If you're saying she's racist or xenophobic then I disagree, especially as she constantly shares articles by Aditya Chakrabortty. Her son is also mixed race. And neither do you actually provide any evidence to back up your claim.


----------



## rekil (Jul 22, 2022)

Her take on that Jan 6th hullabaloo has not aged well. Thank fuck RT is blocked so I don't have to see it ever again.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 22, 2022)

imposs1904 said:


> Did your teacher sport a fashionable hair cut and wear expensive black jeans? Were they known to haunt the high street on a Saturday morning with a clipboard in hand? In short, were they a cunt?


Reader, Dr C did not append the poster to the wall


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 22, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> It's what she writes rather than who she writes for thats more important imo. Don't always agree with her politics but she's certainly not  gone or going Tory


Yep, I absolutely agree.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 15, 2022)

Can't say I like Spiked but to be fair to Lisa McKenzie I'd say this is a pretty good article









						The great academic circle-jerk
					

What that research project on masturbation tells us about the state of academia.




					www.spiked-online.com


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 15, 2022)

The segue into complaining about idpol being to blame is about the most LM thing possible. As though weird PhDs haven't been standard fare for the papers for decades.


----------



## Benjamin F (Aug 15, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Can't say I like Spiked but to be fair to Lisa McKenzie I'd say this is a pretty good article
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not much to disagree with - or terribly original in Lisa M's article. The use of 'free', self-alienating academic labour to support mega-rich publishing and maintain exclusive, demagaing hierarchies is hardly a new insight. And the masturbation article - though hardly representative of the majority of academic research - is not the only self-indulgent published article (and no more self-indulgent that a lot of _IoI/Spiked_ articles). Nor is the call to engage with the 'wider world' new or radical. The impact agenda in Universities is precisely that - and can be even more damaging that academic insularity. As impact is often - and easily evidenced - but showing how the research helps government policy makers or business. 

Whilst it is possible to make 'impact' through engagement with other groups, it is usually less highly regarded and obviously far harder to evidence. After all some groups work best by operating under the radar, rather than naming themselves through academic-reporting. So Lisa M's suggestion can be used to support the idea, already in operation within government and University management, that the only research that matters is that which helps capital and/or the state.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 19, 2022)

Spiked really going for it.


----------



## tim (Sep 19, 2022)

Sadly, I'm blocked so unable to read the wisdom of St Frank the Revolutionary.


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## danny la rouge (Sep 19, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Spiked really going for it.


As is their wont.


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 19, 2022)

I would be fascinated (not actually fascinated) to hear Claire Fox's take on it given her double-repubble background.

ETA

Claire Regina


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## billy_bob (Sep 19, 2022)

tim said:


> Sadly, I'm blocked so unable to read the wisdom of St Frank the Revolutionary.



You'll be able to keep your dinner down longer than me, then.


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## 8ball (Sep 19, 2022)

Been hopping between threads and it took me a while to twig that you weren’t talking about SpookyFrank.


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## AmateurAgitator (Sep 29, 2022)

So out of sheer curiosity I had a look at the Spiked website today, and according to them 'woke racism' is a thing


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## killer b (Oct 13, 2022)

Look at the cursed lineup for the Battle of Ideas festival this year. Jesus.


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## Raheem (Oct 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> Look at the cursed lineup for the Battle of Ideas festival this year. Jesus.
> 
> View attachment 347037


If it's a battle, I presume the normal Geneva convention rules will apply.


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## Serge Forward (Oct 13, 2022)

Horrendous. Has Nina Power gone wonky these days? Or am I mixing her up with someone else?


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## killer b (Oct 13, 2022)

oh yeah. real bad.


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## 8ball (Oct 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> Look at the cursed lineup for the Battle of Ideas festival this year. Jesus.
> 
> View attachment 347037



Jesus?  I assume he’s one of the “many more” but I’d have expected a higher billing.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 13, 2022)

It’s a unique game of avoid, avoid or avoid.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> Look at the cursed lineup for the Battle of Ideas festival this year. Jesus.
> 
> View attachment 347037


"Plus a special video message from Alex Belfield, a fundraising auction hosted by celebrity gavel-basher Katie Hopkins, the amusing cabaret stylings of _former Scots comedian of the year _Leo Kearse, and closing disco by Special Guest DJ that fella from Mumford & Sons (prompt 10:30 finish)"


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## billy_bob (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> Look at the cursed lineup for the Battle of Ideas festival this year. Jesus.
> 
> View attachment 347037


Fucking hell - just rename it the Battle against Trans Perverts and have done with it  🤮

Just imagine if they're listed in order of appearance: Helen Joyce, Frank Furedi and Julie Bindel one after the other


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## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2022)

I can imagine the meeting.

_Do you think everyone will get the message now?_
No, a lot of these are hardly household names.  We need to go obvious.
_Linehan?_
Bingo!


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## marty21 (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> Look at the cursed lineup for the Battle of Ideas festival this year. Jesus.
> 
> View attachment 347037


there's many more!


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 14, 2022)

marty21 said:


> there's many more!


THOUSANDS OF 'EM 😱😱😱


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## marty21 (Oct 14, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> "Plus a special video message from Alex Belfield, a fundraising auction hosted by celebrity gavel-basher Katie Hopkins, the amusing cabaret stylings of _former Scots comedian of the year _Leo Kearse, and closing disco by Special Guest DJ that fella from Mumford & Sons (prompt 10:30 finish)"


Any chance of an appearance from Jim Davidson ?- he popped up on GB news recently , slagging off footballers for being woke and taking the Queen's shilling in Qatar (that makes proper sense Jim) and basically bigging up the LGBT+ community in the UK (He's always been a big supporter has Jim)


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## Lurdan (Oct 14, 2022)

This looks like a very interesting debate at the Battle of Ideas Festival tomorrow. I hope they put the video online



> *Trade unions: throwback, comeback or fightback?*
> Saturday 15 October, 16:45—18:15, Room 511, Church House
> 
> A wave of strikes this year led to talk of a Summer of Discontent, with the RMT’s Mick Lynch becoming a household name. Trade union leaders are now regularly asked to comment on politics. It seems the biting cost-of-living crisis has cut through, with unions seeming to lead the fightback with substantial public support.





> Yet until recently, many thought unions were toothless, bureaucratic bodies, their glory days behind them. The number of days lost to strikes has long been in decline. Is this really, as media and politicians claim, a return to the militant Seventies?
> 
> In the Conservative leadership campaign, Liz Truss has mimicked Margaret Thatcher’s draconian threats to union activity, aiming to make legal strikes almost impossible. The government has brought in legislation allowing the use of agency workers to break picket lines and replace striking employees. Will this tame today’s trade unions, as laws against secondary picketing and closed shops, and creating strict rules for strike ballots, did in the past?





> Some suggest that a renaissance in trade unions is being hyped up, pointing out that those not in trade unions have been more effective in organising spontaneous, larger-scale national resistance around specific issues affecting their livelihoods, such as this year’s protests by Canadian truckers and European farmers. Could such ‘populist revolts’ be channelled into organised union resistance?
> 
> Yet the fact that most unions are still affiliated to the Labour Party, which lost millions of working-class votes in 2019 over its anti-Brexit stance, could compromise unions’ ability to tap into this anger. Unions were also at the forefront of demanding lockdown restrictions, which had a devastating impact on many people’s lives.





> Can trade unions lead the struggle against the crisis of living standards – or are they a barrier to fighting back?





> *Readings*
> 
> Big Unions Aren't Up to the Job Anymore, Lydia Hughes, Novara Media, 2 October 2020
> US sees union boom despite big companies' aggressive opposition, Michael Sainato, The Guardian, 27 July 2022
> Are we entering a 'golden age' for trade unions?, Anne Cassidy, BBC News, 31 March 2022





> 'You don't think strikes are the answer? What is?' RMT's Mick Lynch on work, dignity and union power, Zoe Williams, The Guardian, 23 August 2022
> Rail strikes: not a return ticket to the 1970s, Mick Hume, Spiked, 26 June 2022
> Why Mick Lynch stands out, Lisa McKenzie, Spiked, 27 June 2022
> This is not a class war, Philip Cunliffe, UnHerd, 24 June 2022


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## Rob Ray (Oct 14, 2022)

Mildly surprised to see Bastani there (as a first line name no less), can't imagine the Novara audience being particularly happy to see their boi glad handing with Liddle and Linehan.


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## Brainaddict (Oct 14, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Mildly surprised to see Bastani there (as a first line name no less), can't imagine the Novara audience being particularly happy to see their boi glad handing with Liddle and Linehan.


Yeah, I was a bit surprised. He does have the odd centrist take but doesn't remotely have the red-brown (or just brown) leanings of a lot of the speakers. He may well get called out for it cos that is one appalling line-up.


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## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

apparently he was there in 2018 and 2019 too, but I guess no-one was paying attention.

He responds to some criticism about it here, in really the only way he could:


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## Brainaddict (Oct 14, 2022)

Lurdan said:


> This looks like a very interesting debate at the Battle of Ideas Festival tomorrow. I hope they put the video online


Really? I read the speakers and was like, okay, they managed to have some actual leftists there, even if some are known for their more nationalist leaning leftism. And okay, one Tory dickhead on there, perhaps they feel the need for token balance. Then I saw the chair: 'Senior HR professional'. Like, the actual enemy in workplaces. Hilarious stuff.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> apparently he was there in 2018 and 2019 too, but I guess no-one was paying attention.
> 
> He responds to some criticism about it here, in really the only way he could:



I’m not a fan of his politics or journalism, but actually that’s a good point.


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## 8ball (Oct 14, 2022)

He's the "luxury communism" guy, isn't he?


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## Rob Ray (Oct 14, 2022)

Aaron and Lisa propping up the credentials of valiantly taking on the Spiked propaganda machine, in the well-trodden path of liberals vs Fox News anchors that has allowed it to pose as a serious debate forum while carefully maintaining a totally dominant ratio of its own views so thoroughly dismantled it as an organisation.


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## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m not a fan of his politics or journalism, but actually that’s a good point.


It would be if he was writing a column for The Times or something, but I'd argue sharing a platform with these guys is just helping their long-term project of funnelling left-leaning people towards right-wing politics, and damaging your own standing with anyone sensible at the same time.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> 'Senior HR professional'. Like, the actual enemy in workplaces. Hilarious stuff.


Back when I was at high school (late 70s/early 80s), we had these career guidance meetings. One of the maths teachers met you and asked you a load of questions from a bought-in questionnaire they were very pleased with and would confidently match you with a career to go into. This was so you could chose the right subjects to take and plan for college or uni or whatever.

After a couple of days I got back the answer that I was best matched to HR (or personnel management as it was then called). I was utterly offended. I’d have been about 15, I’d already read a bit of Marx (both my grandads were Tankies), and I knew then that HR was The Enemy.

On talking to mates it turned out everyone who was brightish but with no obvious career course (medicine, whatever) was told the same thing.  Put me off education for a while, really until I got a job with the WEA.


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## belboid (Oct 14, 2022)

Brainaddict said:


> Really? I read the speakers and was like, okay, they managed to have some actual leftists there, even if some are known for their more nationalist leaning leftism. And okay, one Tory dickhead on there, perhaps they feel the need for token balance. Then I saw the chair: 'Senior HR professional'. Like, the actual enemy in workplaces. Hilarious stuff.


I presumed it was a joke. Especially as one of the former unionists is listed as being active in a union that stopped existing over thirty years ago.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> It would be if he was writing a column for The Times or something, but I'd argue sharing a platform with these guys is just helping their long-term project of funnelling left-leaning people towards right-wing politics, and damaging your own standing with anyone sensible at the same time.


Och, I realise that.  I don’t trust any of that Novara crowd.


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## 8ball (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> ...I'd argue sharing a platform with these guys is just helping their long-term project of funnelling left-leaning people towards right-wing politics...



... those lefties - so dumb...


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## nogojones (Oct 14, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m not a fan of his politics or journalism, but actually that’s a good point.


I do however see him being drawn into their bullshit more, than him convincing any cunts there to be better people


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## killer b (Oct 14, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Och, I realise that.  I don’t trust any of that Novara crowd.


It's a mixed bag - James Butler is a good writer with decent politics, Ash Sarkar has her moments. Bastani is pretty terrible though.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2022)

nogojones said:


> I do however see him being drawn into their bullshit more, than him convincing any cunts there to be better people


Aye. And Novara, Canary and all that milieu is nothing more than social democratic cooption of dissent for capital anyway. It was the point that was fair enough, not the grifter behind it.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2022)

killer b said:


> James Butler is a good writer with decent politics,


Don’t think I know him.


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## 8ball (Oct 14, 2022)

Whenever I look at their telly bits it seems to be Ash Sarkar and Michael Walker.


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## Rob Ray (Oct 14, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Don’t think I know him.


Used to be in Solfed for a while but got caught up with the Corbyn hype train. His stuff for LRB is usually pretty thoughtful.


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## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Used to be in Solfed for a while but got caught up with the Corbyn hype train. His stuff for LRB is usually pretty thoughtful.


I had a subscription until recently so I must have seen him.  I’m not good with names.


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## Lurdan (Oct 16, 2022)

I hadn't seen this advertisement for the Battle of Ideas Festival 2022, which is due to finish in a couple of hours, until just now.

It was posted to YouTube a week ago by veteran ex-LM network 'member' Austin Williams.





> There's many reasons to come. First of all, they'll have all the lights on, so you don't have to. And with so many people present, around 1000 attendees every day, it's packed, and a very cheap way to stay warm in these troubled times. At £27.50 for a student ticket that's cheaper than a hot water bottle and some scented candles.
> 
> Secondly, Church House is where the Government under Winston Churchill relocated during the Second World War to avoid the air raids. So, if you want a relatively safe space when the nuclear war starts, I can think of nowhere better.



Contrarian comedy at its finest.


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## mojo pixy (Oct 16, 2022)

I just want to add, Silkie Carlo was one of the organizers that booked David Icke and Alex Jones to speak (headline actually) at the 2013 anti-bilderberg protest in June 2013.

Now on with this bunch, of course where else.


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## ska invita (Oct 16, 2022)

mojo pixy said:


> I just want to add, Silkie Carlo was one of the organizers that booked David Icke and Alex Jones to speak (headline actually) at the 2013 anti-bilderberg protest in June 2013.
> 
> Now on with this bunch, of course where else.


Director of Big Brother watch? i thought they were okay, but have never dug








						Our team — Big Brother Watch
					

Defending Civil Liberties, Protecting Privacy




					bigbrotherwatch.org.uk
				



"
Silkie is a recognised media spokesperson on human rights issues, including on flagship political programmes such as BBC Any Questions? and Politics Live, and regularly writes opinion pieces in the Telegraph, with bylines also in the Guardian and Mail among other papers.

Before joining Big Brother Watch, she was the Senior Advocacy Officer at the UK’s oldest human rights organisation Liberty where she led a programme on Technology and Human Rights and launched a legal challenge against mass surveillance powers. She previously worked for Edward Snowden’s official legal defence fund."


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## mojo pixy (Oct 16, 2022)

Where is the facepalm emoji when you need it?

I know next to nothing about 'Big Brother Watch' but I know she speaks for them, and that speaks volumes about them IMO

It bothers me a lot that she has such a profile and is more or less mainstream now.


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## belboid (Oct 16, 2022)

ska invita said:


> Director of Big Brother watch? i thought they were okay, but have never dug
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I always thought they were okay. A look at their board has caused doubts tho, a couple from right wing think tanks and a lib dem peer 

Her recent pieces all seem to be anti lockdown shite in the Torygraph


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## Serge Forward (Oct 16, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Back when I was at high school (late 70s/early 80s), we had these career guidance meetings. One of the maths teachers met you and asked you a load of questions from a bought-in questionnaire they were very pleased with and would confidently match you with a career to go into. This was so you could chose the right subjects to take and plan for college or uni or whatever.
> 
> After a couple of days I got back the answer that I was best matched to HR (or personnel management as it was then called). I was utterly offended. I’d have been about 15, I’d already read a bit of Marx (both my grandads were Tankies), and I knew then that HR was The Enemy.
> 
> On talking to mates it turned out everyone who was brightish but with no obvious career course (medicine, whatever) was told the same thing.  Put me off education for a while, really until I got a job with the WEA.


You know when kids say what they want to be when they grow up, eg train driver, bus conductor, sweetshop keeper, etc, has any child ever answered HR officer, because if they did, surely social services would need to be brought in


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 16, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> You know when kids say what they want to be when they grow up, eg train driver, bus conductor, sweetshop keeper, etc, has any child ever answered HR officer, because if they did, surely social services would need to be brought in


Did any of the kids express a fervent desire to become a social worker?


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## DaveCinzano (Nov 24, 2022)

Chunky piece of interest to people here:


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## nogojones (Nov 24, 2022)

Lurdan said:


> I hadn't seen this advertisement for the Battle of Ideas Festival 2022, which is due to finish in a couple of hours, until just now.
> 
> It was posted to YouTube a week ago by veteran ex-LM network 'member' Austin Williams.
> 
> ...



Comments turned off. Cunts scared of a debate.


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## The39thStep (Nov 24, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Chunky piece of interest to people here:



Evan sent me a copy yesterday


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## DaveCinzano (Nov 24, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Evan sent me a copy yesterday


Namedropper 🤣


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## The39thStep (Nov 24, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Namedropper 🤣


Sorry Mr Smith sent me a copy


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## 8ball (Nov 24, 2022)

nogojones said:


> Comments turned off. Cunts scared of a debate.



When did you last see a “debate” in YouTube comments?


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## nogojones (Nov 24, 2022)

8ball said:


> When did you last see a “debate” in YouTube comments?


Well the "Battle of Ideas" headline made me think it was cool to cunt them off.

A foolish belief I guess.


----------

