# Mars One aims for human settlement of Mars in 2023



## editor (Jun 4, 2012)

It's certainly bold. One way trip to Mars, anyone?





> Mars One will establish the first human settlement on Mars in 2023. A habitable settlement will be waiting for the settlers when they land. The settlement will support them while they live and work on Mars the rest of their lives. Every two years after 2023 an additional crew will arrive, such that there is a real living, growing community on Mars. Mars One has created a technical plan for this mission that is as simple as possible. For every component of the mission we have identified at least one potential supplier. Mars One invites you to join us in this next giant leap for mankind!


 
http://mars-one.com/



> The central point to this Mars mission is that the participants emigrate – living and working on Mars for the rest of their lives. This is the most important reason that this plan is feasible. It goes without saying that we are taking care of the living needs of the settlers, but more on that later. First, we must elaborate on why a 'return ticket' is pretty much impossible when talking about the Red Planet.
> Should you want to offer your astronauts a flight back to Earth, you would have to have a completely tested, fuelled and fully operational rocket for the return journey waiting for the astronauts on Mars, before a single human leaves Earth orbit. You can imagine the logistical issues when you don't have people there to help with that. What if a system breaks down, and there is no way to solve the problem? Do you start again? Send the astronauts to Mars anyway, hoping that they can repair the faulty mechanism? What if the return rocket is destroyed just before the astronauts land? Do you prepare two return rockets – just in case?
> 
> All of the issues above are solved by having emigrating participants. Now the challenges are limited to providing the astronauts with provisions and a healthy living environment on a planet that does not offer these essentials itself. Don't get us wrong, this sounds and is complicated, but it is far from a futuristic projection. This science not only exists, it is available to us now. Another feat of human achievement, the International Space Station, has been manned and orbiting our Earth for over a decade now and makes full use of the very same tried-and-tested technology required for a manned mission to Mars.
> ...


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jun 4, 2012)

> Mars One will establish the first human settlement on Mars in 2023. A habitable settlement will be waiting for the settlers when they land. The settlement will support them while they live and work on Mars the rest of their lives. Every two years after 2023 an additional crew will arrive, such that there is a real living, growing community on Mars. Mars One has created a technical plan for this mission that is as simple as possible. For every component of the mission we have identified at least one potential supplier. Mars One invites you to join us in this next giant leap for mankind!


 
Jesus: what a horrible thought. Spending the rest of your life on Mars living in one of those white pods.

Imagine what it will cost to keep a person living on another planet. I'm all for exploring space etc, but before we start underwriting the cost of having people live on Mars, I'd rather see everyone here on Earth with clean drinking water.


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## Crispy (Jun 4, 2012)

Bonkers. The technology is nowhere near mature. These first settlers would not die of old age.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jun 4, 2012)

I think before I go to live on Mars, I'll get  the idea out of my system by going to a Burning Man Festival for one week.


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## purenarcotic (Jun 4, 2012)

Imagine being stuck with just three people for two years; what if you didn't get on with one of them.

Also, if you decide it's a bit shit, you're stuck their for life?  How rubbish.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Jun 4, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> Imagine being stuck with just three people for two years; what if you didn't get on with one of them.
> 
> Also, if you decide it's a bit shit, you're stuck their for life? How rubbish.


 
They made a movie about that. It was called The Shining.


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## chazegee (Jun 4, 2012)

One of the Mars One creators needs to go out there as a show of good faith.


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## Divisive Cotton (Jun 4, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Bonkers. The technology is nowhere near mature. These first settlers would not die of old age.


 
no I could imagine them dying of something far more nasty than old age


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## golightly (Jun 4, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Bonkers. The technology is nowhere near mature. These first settlers would not die of old age.


 
They could send old people.  I'd be up for it if I only had a few years left; the lower gravity would be better for my joints.


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## Apathy (Jun 5, 2012)

summat will go wrong,  someone will lose it

btw on that brass eye video, just read the greatest youtube comment ever



> *How could the British be so fcking stupid??? How could they not check and see there was noone else*


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2012)

Crispy said:


> Bonkers. The technology is nowhere near mature. These first settlers would not die of old age.



This.


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## stuff_it (Jun 9, 2012)

Can I take weed?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 9, 2012)

I think I will stay here thanks, there is a co-op only five minutes away and ikea is only a short tram ride.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2012)

getchya ass to mars


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## Cid (Jun 10, 2012)

An entrepreneur, a physicist who flunked his PhD, a graphic designer and a PR. Um... Yeah.


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## stuff_it (Jun 10, 2012)

I spent a little time explaining to the Mr the other night that you can hurt yourself just as much doing BMX in the low-g of Mars. He was more interested in how to dry weed without the crystals blocking up the air flirtation tbf..... 

In all honesty I don't expect this to turn into a viable Mars colony, I expect they have read too much scifi.


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## Crispy (Jun 10, 2012)

A member of the company (un: arnoux) gets his arse handed to him by the experts in this forum thread: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29053.0


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## Greebo (Jun 10, 2012)

Crispy said:


> A member of the company (un: arnoux) gets his arse handed to him by the experts in this forum thread: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29053.0


Class!


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## Greebo (Jun 10, 2012)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think I will stay here thanks, there is a co-op only five minutes away and ikea is only a short tram ride.


You know the prospect of living on Mars is bad when it makes a trip to Ikea seem appealing.


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## dilute micro (Jun 10, 2012)

Would the food be organic?


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## Greebo (Jun 10, 2012)

dilute micro said:


> Would the food be organic?


In which sense of the word?


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## dilute micro (Jun 10, 2012)

Greebo said:


> In which sense of the word?


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## Greebo (Jun 10, 2012)

dilute micro said:


>


More likely the finest hyroponics.  Alternatively, sheet meat and algae, anyone?


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## moochedit (Jun 10, 2012)

They haven't even managed to land one person on mars yet and they are talking about setting up a permanent colony in 11 years time? we haven't even gone back to the moon for about 40 years or so.


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## moochedit (Jun 10, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Can I take weed?


 
Apparently it's a Dutch company behind it, so you should be ok.


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## chazegee (Jun 10, 2012)

moochedit said:


> Apparently it's a Dutch company


I was wondering.  That Arnoux don't talk too good.


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## moochedit (Jun 10, 2012)

Come to think of it, I bet the idea was dreamt up in a coffeeshop.


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## Wolveryeti (Jun 10, 2012)

I'm sure they will find enough people mental enough to say yes.


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## dilute micro (Jun 10, 2012)

So can this thread be made a sticky till 2023?


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## moochedit (Jun 11, 2012)

purenarcotic said:


> Imagine being stuck with just three people for two years; what if you didn't get on with one of them.


 
and what happens if one of them goes boat happy?


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## moochedit (Jun 11, 2012)

dilute micro said:


> So can this thread be made a sticky till 2023?


 
why did they choose 2023 anyway?


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

moochedit said:


> why did they choose 2023 anyway?


Probably because the number looks nice. Sort of forward looking.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2012)

editor said:


> Probably because the number looks nice. Sort of forward looking.


until it all falls apart before then. the claims resulting from this won't be settled by 2032.


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## moochedit (Jun 11, 2012)

would there be any government or laws on the new mars colony?


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## editor (Jun 11, 2012)

moochedit said:


> would there be any government or laws on the new mars colony?


Well, it's all fantasy so you can just make them up. 

Like no blue socks allowed. Ever. And on Tuesdays, everyone has to put their underpants on their heads.
By Order of Martian Law.


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## Cid (Jun 11, 2012)

moochedit said:


> They haven't even managed to land one person on mars yet and they are talking about setting up a permanent colony in 11 years time? we haven't even gone back to the moon for about 40 years or so.


 
They're launching in 4 years apparently.


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## moochedit (Jun 11, 2012)

Cid said:


> They're launching in 4 years apparently.


 
Excellent. Hope the spaceship gets built in time. where do i sign up for this?


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## Citizen66 (Jun 11, 2012)

What if the landing fucked up and they lost all contact with earth? Lot's of great film plot possibilities.


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## dilute micro (Jun 12, 2012)

I think on Mars all beer should be Bavarian style wheat beer.


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## moochedit (Jun 12, 2012)

dilute micro said:


> I think on Mars all beer should be Bavarian style wheat beer.


It would be oktoberfest every day on mars.


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## moochedit (Jun 12, 2012)

> Food
> When the astronauts land, there will be limited rations of food available for them to use. As soon as possible however, they will begin producing their own food. The astronauts will make use of highly intensive greenhouses called Plant Production Units. There will be sufficient plant production capacity to feed about three crews of four. Any plant production surplus will be stored as emergency rations for the second crew, and for other emergencies.


 
That's the veg taken care of but where will they get the meat from ?


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## Greebo (Jun 12, 2012)

moochedit said:


> That's the veg taken care of but where will they get the meat from ?


It could be cultured.  Remember sheet meat?  It might not be appetising but that's beside the point.


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## fractionMan (Jun 12, 2012)

They haven't got the food covered at all, as people on the other forum pointed out.  It's handwavy bullshit and magic beans.


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## golightly (Jun 12, 2012)

moochedit said:


> That's the veg taken care of but where will they get the meat from ?


 
The person that no one else likes obviously.


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## Citizen66 (Jun 12, 2012)

dilute micro said:
			
		

> I think on Mars all beer should be Bavarian style wheat beer.



And they'd be served in mars' bars.


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## stuff_it (Jun 12, 2012)

moochedit said:


> why did they choose 2023 anyway?


Because 2317 is a bit far away? 



fractionMan said:


> They haven't got the food covered at all, as people on the other forum pointed out. It's handwavy bullshit and magic beans.


Some of us quite like beans, though living in a smallish habitat with a load of bean eating vegetarians my bring a need for a hefty fart filtration system...


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## golightly (Jun 12, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> Some of us quite like beans, though living in a smallish habitat with a load of bean eating vegetarians my bring a need for a hefty fart filtration system...


 
Well, that's their energy problem solved.  No need for solar panels when you have a plentiful supply of methane.


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## fractionMan (Jun 12, 2012)

Apparently sprouts and beetroots are really good for that type of intensive production


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## moochedit (Jun 12, 2012)

so you have to live in a small hut on a freezing cold planet where you can't go outside without wearing a spacesuit, there are no bacon butty's to eat, you have to share with 3 farting vegans and you have to stay there for the rest of your life?


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## moochedit (Jun 12, 2012)

Still i suppose with no laws on mars, you could kill and eat the other 3 people, if you got sick of eating plants.


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## moochedit (Jun 12, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Remember sheet meat?


   nope, what's is it?


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## Greebo (Jun 12, 2012)

moochedit said:


> nope, what's is it?


It was only in the news last year.  You know how skin can be grown from tissue samples into large sheets for skin grafts?  Well, it's possible to do the same with muscle tissue in a petri dish.  It might not have the texture of meat from an animal which had even a sedentary life (let alone an active one), but it's still a source of protein.


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## stuff_it (Jun 12, 2012)

Greebo said:


> It was only in the news last year. You know how skin can be grown from tissue samples into large sheets for skin grafts? Well, it's possible to do the same with muscle tissue in a petri dish. It might not have the texture of meat from an animal which had even a sedentary life (let alone an active one), but it's still a source of protein.


So not the same as shite meat. 

http://inhabitat.com/poop-burger-japanese-researcher-creates-artificial-meat-from-human-feces/


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## moochedit (Jun 12, 2012)

Greebo said:


> It was only in the news last year. You know how skin can be grown from tissue samples into large sheets for skin grafts? Well, it's possible to do the same with muscle tissue in a petri dish. It might not have the texture of meat from an animal which had even a sedentary life (let alone an active one), but it's still a source of protein.


 


stuff_it said:


> So not the same as shite meat.
> 
> http://inhabitat.com/poop-burger-japanese-researcher-creates-artificial-meat-from-human-feces/


 
Hmm. the other crew members are starting to look very tasty!


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 12, 2012)

moochedit said:


> and what happens if one of them goes boat happy?


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## ska invita (Jun 13, 2012)

Cid said:


> They're launching in 4 years apparently.


 
I bet they dont have the money...sounds like a scam to me


> Sponsoring Mars One
> Mars One is pleased to announce that corporate sponsorship opportunities are now available.
> 
> Mars One sponsors will have one thing in common: they believe it is time for an exciting, positively-charged adventure that will be an inspiration for the entire human race [aka they'll all be ripped off].


 
http://mars-one.com/en/sponsorships


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## rover07 (Jun 13, 2012)

Fantastic idea! Setting off on a do or die mission is no different than settlers who headed off to America in the 16th-17th century.

Plus it would make great TV.


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## moochedit (Jun 13, 2012)

http://www.geekologie.com/2012/06/count-me-out-dutch-company-plans-to-star.php



> with the arrival of its first inhabitants, four astronauts who have agreed to live the rest of their lives there. Every two years after that an additional two astronauts will be sent to grow the population and increase the number of team-based board games they can all play when they're not sitting around waiting to die.


 



> Someone did not think this through. Every 2 years 2 more people show up. Can you imagine the hell hole those 2 people would be walking into? If they all weren't already dead they would be at least crazy as a fucking loon. It sounds like a sci-fi horror movie in the making. I would not walk through that door without a gun.
> They will need to ship 10 people per year to have this make sense. Those first 4 people are going to be completely bored banging each other for 2 years. If you ship only 2 they will be over powered and cornholed until they are as fucking crazy as the first 4. Then the next 2 have to deal with 6 slack jawed perverts and the cycle continues.


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## moochedit (Jun 13, 2012)

They are selecting them next year. I'd better dust off my CV.



> The mission plan is as follows:[4]
> 
> 2013: First four astronauts will be selected; replica of the settlement will be built for training purposes.
> 2014: The first communication satellite will be produced.
> ...


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## BigTom (Jun 13, 2012)

> It sounds like a sci-fi horror movie in the making


 
When I saw the vid, I thought it would either be a computer game or film.. It's definitely an interesting premise, to be on the second (or third) ship to go there and what they'd find, or as a micromanagement computer game to manage the resources and prepare for the consistently & constantly growing population.


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## ExtraRefined (Jun 13, 2012)

So this Mars One thing is probably total bollocks, as they've got no real funding ideas or useful staff on board BUT...

The basic science and engineering behind their plan is sound, and it's sound because it's totally unoriginal. It's just Mars Direct. Zubrin really knew what he was doing when he planned that, and although he's probably desperatly optimistic about costs, as only a nerdy zealot can be (which has been carried over to Mars One), my understanding is that it would otherwise work. Watch the video of his talk on the plan, it's fun stuff


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## moochedit (Jun 13, 2012)

it takes between 3 and 20 mins for a radio signal to get to earth from mars (depending on the 2 planets positions) so you couldn't even surf the net to pass the time as it would be slower than an old 56k modem from the early days.


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## dilute micro (Jun 13, 2012)

moochedit said:


> it takes between 3 and 20 mins for a radio signal to get to earth from mars (depending on the 2 planets positions) so you couldn't even surf the net to pass the time as it would be slower than an old 56k modem from the early days.


 
Porn would suck. Flash drives are small and lightweight though.


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## fractionMan (Jun 14, 2012)

It makes iron sky look like a documentary


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## stuff_it (Jun 16, 2012)

BigTom said:


> When I saw the vid, I thought it would either be a computer game or film.. It's definitely an interesting premise, to be on the second (or third) ship to go there and what they'd find, or as a micromanagement computer game to manage the resources and prepare for the consistently & constantly growing population.


It would make an epic game  - opening scene...you and your team arrive at the habitats, the 15th lot of four people. You are unarmed, but slightly concerned that Mars/Earth communications were shut off just days after your launch following a spike in interstellar radiation... *spooky music*





moochedit said:


> They are selecting them next year. I'd better dust off my CV.


So you have to prove yourself by living in the same crappy conditions on earth first? Fuck that shit, I'd want to be in a luxury hotel with free drugs and hookers for at least 6 months before launch.


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## moochedit (Jun 16, 2012)

stuff_it said:


> So you have to prove yourself by living in the same crappy conditions on earth first? Fuck that shit, I'd want to be in a luxury hotel with free drugs and hookers for at least 6 months before launch.


 
I live in Coventry. Mars couldn't be any worse


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## moochedit (Jun 17, 2012)

> The astronauts that go into training will become employees of Mars One and will receive a salary.


 
what exactly are they going to spend the money they earn on?  I don't think amazon deliver to mars.


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## Greebo (Jun 17, 2012)

moochedit said:


> what exactly are they going to spend the money they earn on? I don't think amazon deliver to mars.


Yet.


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## samk (Jun 17, 2012)

to have custom made porn emailed to them


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## stuff_it (Jun 17, 2012)

No minimum wage on Mars, a race to the bottom etc etc

*shakes fist*

/rant


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## southside (Jun 17, 2012)

What will happen when they are confronted by the people who already live on there?


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## moochedit (Jun 17, 2012)

Maybe they'll be paid in linden dollars?


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## BoxRoom (Jun 20, 2012)

Article on BBC website today about it, what scared me was the quote about radiation and shielding. Has this guy only just read about shielding?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18506033




> Bas Lansdorp believes he's found a solution: "What you have to do is shielding, that means putting objects between the astronauts and the radiation.
> 
> "So we will make sure there's enough shielding on the spaceship. And on Mars we'll protect them by putting a large layer of soil on the surface of the planet."


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## Citizen66 (Jun 20, 2012)

He's clearly got more money than brains.


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## Disjecta Membra (Jun 24, 2012)

Unfortunately this is a nice idea but it'll never happen by 2023, i really won't mind being wrong though.


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## golightly (Jun 24, 2012)

Let's be honest.


fractionMan said:


> It makes iron sky look like a documentary


 
I would have thought that Ghosts of Mars would be more like it.  As in properly shit and low budget.


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## Mungy (Jun 26, 2012)

I quite fancy the idea of living on mars. There are a few things not in my favour though. I have a family who i love very much. I'm that fat I would probably need my own personal rocket to get there. I would fail any psychological profiling of mental suitability to any of the shit involved in getting there and living with other people


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## r0bb0 (Jul 30, 2012)

A prog about Mars is on bbc2 now


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## editor (Nov 17, 2014)

Really interesting article here: https://medium.com/matter/all-dressed-up-for-mars-and-nowhere-to-go-7e76df527ca0

And one rather depressing fact: No human being has left low-Earth orbit since the last Apollo mission in 1972.


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## 2hats (Nov 17, 2014)




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## moochedit (Feb 13, 2019)

The dream is over 

The Register: From Red Planet to deep into the red: Suicidal extrovert magnet Mars One finally implodes.

From Red Planet to deep into the red: Suicidal extrovert magnet Mars One finally implodes


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## NoXion (Feb 13, 2019)

I didn't expect it to get anywhere close to Mars. If NASA haven't yet decided how they're going to get to the Red Planet, then what hope did some previously unheard-of Dutch entity with no experience of handling space hardware have of even getting off the ground?


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## stuff_it (Feb 13, 2019)

NoXion said:


> I didn't expect it to get anywhere close to Mars. If NASA haven't yet decided how they're going to get to the Red Planet, then what hope did some previously unheard-of Dutch entity with no experience of handling space hardware have of even getting off the ground?


I dunno, I can think of a ferry company with similar levels of experience that's at a loose end unexpectedly...


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## Baronage-Phase (Feb 13, 2019)

I think I still have a hoodie from that crowd. 
Sigh...
The innocence of youth..


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## moochedit (Feb 13, 2019)

Maybe there is hope yet 

TechSpot: Undisclosed investor reportedly in talks to revive Mars One.
Undisclosed investor reportedly in talks to revive Mars One


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## editor (Feb 13, 2019)

I really want to see people on Mars in my lifetime but this plan did see wildly improbable.


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## Yossarian (Feb 13, 2019)

moochedit said:


> The dream is over
> 
> The Register: From Red Planet to deep into the red: Suicidal extrovert magnet Mars One finally implodes.
> 
> From Red Planet to deep into the red: Suicidal extrovert magnet Mars One finally implodes



They should have dumped the contestants in a remote part of Arizona, told them it was Mars, then raised enough money for a real spaceship with a reality show documenting their struggle to survive.


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## ska invita (Feb 13, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Maybe there is hope yet
> 
> TechSpot: Undisclosed investor reportedly in talks to revive Mars One.
> Undisclosed investor reportedly in talks to revive Mars One


Rich idiots and pointless vanity projects are hard to keep apart


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## moochedit (Feb 13, 2019)

editor said:


> I really want to see people on Mars in my lifetime but this plan did see wildly improbable.



Obviously nonsense from the start. You would need a much more realistic time scale, some credible scientists involved and goverment backing (probably multiple goverments) for this to have even the remotest chance of working.  A version of "love island" set in space to raise the funds isn't enough.


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## moochedit (Feb 13, 2019)

ska invita said:


> Rich idiots and pointless vanity projects are hard to keep apart



Talking of which...

Space.com: Tickets to Mars Will Eventually Cost Less Than $500,000, Elon Musk Says.

Tickets to Mars Will Eventually Cost Less Than $500,000, Elon Musk Says


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## moochedit (Feb 13, 2019)

Lupa said:


> I think I still have a hoodie from that crowd.
> Sigh...
> The innocence of youth..



A "mars one" hoodie?


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## Baronage-Phase (Feb 13, 2019)

moochedit said:


> A "mars one" hoodie?


Yes....lol... 

Got carried away with the whole thing...bought one for myself and one for my now ex...


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## moochedit (Feb 13, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Yes....lol...
> 
> Got carried away with the whole thing...bought one for myself and one for my now ex...





I'm jealous.


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## Argonia (Feb 13, 2019)

I got quite excited when I first heard about this but seems like it's a bit of a pipe dream now. Which is a shame because I wanted to see Mars colonisation in my lifetime.


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## Baronage-Phase (Feb 13, 2019)

moochedit said:


> I'm jealous.




If I could find it now I'd pop it on eBay.	They're probably going to be some sort of collectable item. 
But I think I put it in a charity bag


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## Crispy (Feb 13, 2019)

Argonia said:


> I got quite excited when I first heard about this but seems like it's a bit of a pipe dream now. Which is a shame because I wanted to see Mars colonisation in my lifetime.


You still might. SpaceX's plans are advancing rapidly.
Boots on the ground at the very least, if not true conolnisation.


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## stuff_it (Feb 13, 2019)

Marsborne Ferries FTW!!!11!


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## moochedit (Feb 13, 2019)

moochedit said:


> Maybe there is hope yet
> 
> TechSpot: Undisclosed investor reportedly in talks to revive Mars One.
> Undisclosed investor reportedly in talks to revive Mars One



I bet it's Mike Ashley. He has been buying every other bankrupt company recently.


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## moochedit (Feb 13, 2019)

Crispy said:


> You still might. SpaceX's plans are advancing rapidly.
> Boots on the ground at the very least, if not true conolnisation.



How is "Blue Origin" doing as well? And "Virgin Galactic"?


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## Crispy (Feb 13, 2019)

moochedit said:


> How is "Blue Origin" doing as well? And "Virgin Galactic"?


BO have built their rocket factory and tested their big engine (and have sold it to Boeing/Lockheed for their Atlas/Delta replacement). They have more money than god and will be launching real payloads in a year or two. VG are an entertaining sideshow.


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## 8ball (Feb 13, 2019)

2023 then.

<taps watch>


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## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

Crispy said:


> You still might. SpaceX's plans are advancing rapidly.
> Boots on the ground at the very least, if not true conolnisation.



I reckon that barring some kind of civilisation-ending global disaster, there'll be some kind of permanent human presence on Mars by the end of the century, kind of like how there's been scientists in Antarctica for some decades now.


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## moochedit (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> I reckon that barring some kind of civilisation-ending global disaster, there'll be some kind of permanent human presence on Mars by the end of the century, kind of like how there's been scientists in Antarctica for some decades now.



I think they should try for a permanent moon base first before they attempt a mars base. One step at a time and all that. Plus easier to evacuate people if any problems.


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## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

moochedit said:


> I think they should try for a permanent moon base first before they attempt a mars base. One step at a time and all that. Plus easier to evacuate people if any problems.



Personally I'm not married to either the "Mars-first" or "Moon-first" positions. 80-odd years is enough time for both to happen. I think that whichever one comes first, the other one will then be much easier to set up. Both in terms of infrastructure as well as in terms of justification.

In the long term, settlement of both the Moon and Mars will serve different functions. Mars would be the quintessential second home of humanity, meanwhile the Moon has all the right ingredients to become a major manufacturing base, serving the needs of Earth and aiding in the development of the Solar system as a whole.


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## editor (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Personally I'm not married to either the "Mars-first" or "Moon-first" positions. 80-odd years is enough time for both to happen. I think that whichever one comes first, the other one will then be much easier to set up. Both in terms of infrastructure as well as in terms of justification.
> 
> In the long term, settlement of both the Moon and Mars will serve different functions. Mars would be the quintessential second home of humanity, meanwhile the Moon has all the right ingredients to become a major manufacturing base, serving the needs of Earth and aiding in the development of the Solar system as a whole.


I remember the wonder of looking up at the Moon and knowing that there were humans on its surface. It would be mind blowing to have humans on Mars.


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## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

editor said:


> I remember the wonder of looking up at the Moon and knowing that there were humans on its surface. It would be mind blowing to have humans on Mars.



It's harder to see Mars from Earth, and I do think that will have implications for the cultural and political future of Martian settlement, although the specifics of that will depend on how history turns out.


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## kabbes (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> . Mars would be the quintessential second home of humanity,


Wow, what a shit second home.  Makes having a caravan in Prestatyn looks like the height of luxury by comparison.


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## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Wow, what a shit second home.  Makes having a caravan in Prestatyn looks like the height of luxury by comparison.



Humans have been making their homes in the Arctic Circle for thousands of years, and they didn't have all the creature comforts and the ability to modify their environment that we now possess. Why do you talk as if people never try to improve the places they live and/or the lives they lead within them? That's ahistorical nonsense.


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## kabbes (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Humans have been making their homes in the Arctic Circle for thousands of years, and they didn't have all the creature comforts and the ability to modify their environment that we now possess. Why do you talk as if people never try to improve the places they live and/or the lives they lead within them? That's ahistorical nonsense.


Yeah, good luck to them improving their lives in the radioactive, thin atmosphere of Mars.  That makes the Arctic Circle look like Prestatyn.


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## 8ball (Feb 14, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Yeah, good luck to them improving their lives in the radioactive, thin atmosphere of Mars.  That makes the Arctic Circle look like Prestatyn.



Are you sure you got those the right way round?


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## kabbes (Feb 14, 2019)

8ball said:


> Are you sure you got those the right way round?


People have been trying for centuries to improve Prestatyn.  Don’t be ahistorical about it.


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## 8ball (Feb 14, 2019)

kabbes said:


> People have been trying for centuries to improve Prestatyn.  Don’t be ahistorical about it.



See - you do have a healthy respect for human ambition when it comes down to it.


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## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

kabbes said:


> Yeah, good luck to them improving their lives in the radioactive, thin atmosphere of Mars.  That makes the Arctic Circle look like Prestatyn.



Those aren't insurmountable problems. I really don't know why you're talking as if they are.


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## kabbes (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Those aren't insurmountable problems. I really don't know why you're talking as if they are.


They make it a pretty shit place to live, insurmountable or otherwise.  What on Earth (sic) is the incentive for a modern human to go and live there?  The novelty of being on an alien planet might keep you going for a few days but after that you’re stuck living in a content-free bubble with a handful of fellow dupes to talk to for the rest of your life.  A bit like Twitter.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 14, 2019)

you could get a monastery up there, get the holy see to chip in on finances.


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## 8ball (Feb 14, 2019)

kabbes said:


> They make it a pretty shit place to live, insurmountable or otherwise.  What on Earth (sic) is the incentive for a modern human to go and live there?.



Some people just seem to like being near the sea.


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## 8ball (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Those aren't insurmountable problems. I really don't know why you're talking as if they are.



Says man from country that was recently brought to a standstill by a toy helicopter.


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## kabbes (Feb 14, 2019)

8ball said:


> Some people just seem to like being near the sea.


Genuine lol


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## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

kabbes said:


> They make it a pretty shit place to live, insurmountable or otherwise.



Well that rather depends, doesn't it? Personally I wouldn't want to live in the Arctic Circle myself*, but nevertheless about four million people do in fact live there, and they continue to do so in spite of the fact that at this point in history it's easier than ever to move to more pleasant climes.

Put enough Martian regolith (which would be cheap and plentiful as far as Martian colonists are concerned) between the living spaces and the rest of the Martian environment, and the radiation can be sufficiently mitigated. They're going to have to bring their own atmosphere to start with anyways, so improving on that would more or less be a case of doing whatever it is they're doing in the first place, only bigger and better.

*Although I might be tempted to go if I was also offered a stable and generous income, which is the kind of small-scale incentive that can be created by those funding colonisation efforts.



> What on Earth (sic) is the incentive for a modern human to go and live there?  The novelty of being on an alien planet might keep you going for a few days but after that you’re stuck living in a content-free bubble with a handful of fellow dupes to talk to for the rest of your life.  A bit like Twitter.



What incentive do humans have to live in any place inimical to unsheltered human life? Yet nonetheless it has happened, and people didn't always need the base economic motives associated with modern capitalism to do so. The opportunity to strike out and start a new society on virgin territory may not appeal to everyone, but it doesn't have to. There just needs to be enough for a viable population. This Mars One thing, for all its many and varied faults, does show that there wouldn't be a shortage of volunteers.

And Martian colonists wouldn't be cut off from the rest of humanity - live _interactive_ broadcasts from Earth may be out of the question, but historically humans have been plenty capable of dealing with communication delays of far longer than the 4 to 24 minutes it takes lightspeed signals to travel between Earth and Mars. Physical travel times currently take less than a year, which also has historical parallels. Improvements in rocket technology would reduce that time further.



8ball said:


> Says man from country that was recently brought to a standstill by a toy helicopter.



Not seeing the relevance, perhaps you could elaborate?


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## 8ball (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Not seeing the relevance, perhaps you could elaborate?



Just saying you don't send the B-Ark on an A-Ark mission.


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## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

8ball said:


> Just saying you don't send the B-Ark on an A-Ark mission.



Still not sure what you're getting at, and I'll explain why:

The Golgafrincham Ark was not the best joke/subplot Douglas Adams ever wrote, in my opinion. I don't think it was his intention, but it seems to have become a favourite parable of sneery misanthropes of the worst kind, who think that there's (at best) a significant and fundamentally useless segment of humanity. Unfortunately the death of the author (in the Barthesian sense) means that Adams' intentions don't count for much, so here we are.

Since I don't think of you as a sneery misanthrope, I'm at a loss to understand your meaning.


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## 8ball (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Since I don't think of you as a sneery misanthrope, I'm at a loss to understand your meaning.



I have sneery misanthropic days.
Usually Tuesdays, but it's come late this week.


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## TopCat (Feb 14, 2019)

purenarcotic said:


> Imagine being stuck with just three people for two years; what if you didn't get on with one of them.
> 
> Also, if you decide it's a bit shit, you're stuck their for life?  How rubbish.


Kill them .


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## TopCat (Feb 14, 2019)

dilute micro said:


> I think on Mars all beer should be Bavarian style wheat beer.


Imagine you landed and found out all the beer was wheat shit. Go garetty.


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## TopCat (Feb 14, 2019)

Yossarian said:


> They should have dumped the contestants in a remote part of Arizona, told them it was Mars, then raised enough money for a real spaceship with a reality show documenting their struggle to survive.


Capricorn 2?


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## TopCat (Feb 14, 2019)

NoXion said:


> I reckon that barring some kind of civilisation-ending global disaster, there'll be some kind of permanent human presence on Mars by the end of the century, kind of like how there's been scientists in Antarctica for some decades now.


How many would go and make a one way trip to Antartica?


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## NoXion (Feb 14, 2019)

TopCat said:


> How many would go and make a one way trip to Antartica?



Do you mean scientists, or people in general?

If the latter, then offering prospective colonists a share of the resources would produce no shortage of interest, I reckon. Once a sufficient degree of primary industries are developed, secondary and tertiary industries catering to to the colonists would follow; they would need goods and services as much as anyone else.

Of course the reason this isn't happening is because Antarctica and its ecosystems are quite sensibly protected from such exploitation by international treaties. But Mars and the rest of the Solar system outside of the Earth don't have any ecosystems. Well, there might be some in places like Europa and Titan, but that's far from certain and in any case there would still be all the other planets, moons, asteroids and comets. Abolishing or re-writing current space treaties would therefore not endanger any ecosystems, which makes for an easy case for exploitation, in my opinion.

Scientific bases, while not being proper colonies where people would settle for life, would nevertheless provide valuable experience and lessons in terms of supporting human life on places like Mars. Growing food locally rather than shipping it in all the time would free up space on the Earth-Mars transports for more personnel and scientific equipment, so there's an obvious incentive there for developing more self-sufficiency, even without people living their entire lives on Mars.


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